20 Episode results for "Cynthia"
"And fred your plant of the week will mark. I already mentioned it in a not disappointed that i did. Because i like to elaborate the rascal. I'm sure previous springs. I have dated in the same way winner. Ac night is yellow now. It's yellow to where. If for cynthia was blooming beside at or above it. It would not be as bright but winner is nothing but dark. Green brown dirty looking leaves that this little fellows popping up through it at the point that it comes above the leaf which is probably only a quarter of an inch thick at this point. It's already flower as the little leaves pop up through and it standing. Maybe one inch tall. The the green splits back in the yellows there and where it is not the brightest of yellows. I don't think but hit a color chart even put at the same time when it's up against a bunch of sloppy looking stuff. It's fantastic and i just. I like to mention it each year because it's not so much the winner echinacea. It's it's what i call it. A little bows. And i'm not gonna get into all the kinds but we've already mentioned the snow drops. The hill hours of course is not a little leaf but the bulbs that we plant that are less than the size of your little finger tip that can be so bright and bushy in the spring this time of year It runs from here on and on and on there are some that. I don't even know that that can be very profuse Seen pictures of actually seen it in in life I'm going to call it a whole hillside now. I don't mean a mountain but a hillside that has light blue flowers on it that you can't even see what might be green grass and those things Lend life to me. It means we've turned another corner the subtle becoming before i get up to the time. It's just a happy time. So i mentioned winner echinacea as the plan of the week. But i'd i'd like to recommend simply all the little bolts now. You probably can't do much about it if you haven't already put them in the ground back in the fall but this coming fall. Make a note that For the corner a sidewalk even the cracks in the sidewalk in in bigger cracks under the edge of a shrub or between two shrubs. Plant not one. Because one's kind of inconspicuous and most of these other things but if you plan five or seven of them or or even more you get some color letting you know that it is going to come summer again.
Lessons #9 - Extracting Articles From Non-Fiction Books
"Hi. This is MAC Gregor with your right right right now feature to gain the subject is non-fiction books and extracting articles from them. If you written a nonfiction book, can you extract at least one article on possibly several from your book? Even if you don't get paid for the article if you wind up in a smaller market that pays only in contributor copies or something. It may be worse. Getting the article published because it publicizes your book you want to put you your name and the name of your book out in front of people who might be interested in buying it. And if they're reading a magazine article. That toward the same audience. They're likely to be interested in your book, at least some of them make sure to put in your bio them will run under the article that your name is the author of your book. And whatever other by graphical info, you want to include put the your name your book dried at the front. So that if your bio is longer than the Naga, gene will accept whatever they caught from the bio, they don't caught your book Taisel now, go out and prying sale on ide- mean sell for money as many articles as you can get out of your book. But remember if you can't fail them for money. The publicity is still worth a rock. That's all for today till next time. This is Cynthia MAC Gregor reminding you to pass a smile on.
Bevy Smith & Cynthia Bailey
"Welcome to the Bravo clubhouse for the podcast edition of Watch. What happens live with me? Andy Cohen Kenya's loose lips caused her to frown and when it comes to reading fashion she wears the crown. It's much whatever's I was sent the evaline. Bevy Smith Live now choline back from break in the Bravo clubhouse on her first show of the new year with two guys who are ready to put the tea In twenty while we were on break my first Gusman put a ring on it which put a smile on my face please. Welcome real housewives of Atlanta's Cynthia Bailey on radio and Sirius. Xm Channel. I don't want to. It's the one and only bevy Smith. You can bet that every cocktail he makes. We'll be served hashtag chilled old fiance. Mike he'll greatest dude. I mean like a year and change ago. You were just just like a sportscaster. And now they're a sportscaster and you're engaged and you're on the house up to a bright beautiful woman. Happy New Year habit that you're always a jetsetter take off a plane from where Ghana and not cry. How was gone? It was amazing and then I took a little over to Casa Blanca. How I mean why nine and how was incredible Casablanca? Bevy went to the soup. I went to a mosque. I did all the things that went to the four seasons. Mom the best way I got Homma you ever had that they gave you the people. The People Bathe Benjamin Eh. Benjamin Happy New Year. I did actually Mike and I was in Ghana last year this time as well but I've been spending most of my time. I'm in Los Angeles with Mike. Very good all right on. Tonight's Atlanta needing joined the ladies on their tour of Toronto and began an apology tour of her own. Take a look. Anything that I've done wrong. I just want to own my own stuff. I didn't mean to hurt. Your feelings apologized today. I know that there are a couple more people in the group that would deserve a little bit of conversation. You know having gene sort of conversation with cautious relationship is not in the best place. What about you in Kenya? I'll see where the real real conversation really. I don't know her anything. Honestly she doesn't owe me seemed like she went to Toronto with intentions of buildings and bridges. Yes what do you think I I believe she did. I will give me credit for really trying to take some ownership over. You know some of the things that she may have done to You know pit some folks up all right well tomorrow at ten o'clock here celebrating adding below-decks Hundredth episode of members from the past seven seasons. You don't WanNa Miss. This is going to be live tomorrow night. At ten o'clock Cynthia and badly are here here for your questions but before we get to those. Here's what three things I'm obsessed with tonight. I on tonight's Atlanta. Everyone continued to believe that Kenya had been indecent. When she's spilled the beans about Cynthia's proposal take a look for Michael on those two doll- he might propose to bring that up? You know what I just felt it and you know we always have conversations about my munitions on things. Don't ever see here ear and tried to question why I said this or this that and the other because that bitch right there I ride for her heart. He's been planning this for months. I received a thank you for sure can. Can you just likes to have moment is like really messed up all right. Here's what fulltime. WWAFL DOT. TV I WANNA know did. Kenya purposely obviously tried to ruin Cynthia surprise proposal. Yes or no Micheel You were not happy about this when you saw the clip of her saying. Oh he's going to proposed. What was your reaction? I will admit I was a little bit upset when she got me that She had come up to her and told her that I was going to propose but at the same time I don't care doesn't mean. Any malice came always rods for. We're Cynthia so hey I just wanted to be perfect. So that was one diplomat audience. Overwhelmingly thinks she. It's purposefully. Tried to ruin your. What do you think well I will say this? I mean at the end of day. Can you is my friend. I really don't think that she really wanted to ruin my proposal It was pretty. Tell me that I was going to be proposed to but you know what she made a mistake. It is what it is and inner defense defense. She does have a miss cleo moments where she can kind of predict a little bit but for me at this point in my life with friendships. You know if you make a mistake you make a mistake take care. It's not dealbreaker. All right second. On last week's Atlanta's Cynthia received a sweet note from Nina. But tonight the ladies tried to get to the bottom of how that heartfelt note got neely leaked to the blogs wants your exact wording hotter they end up in a block. I don't ever talk to bloggers lavas. Don't always point the for the person that you think. Okay point the fact that you don't think Kenya is now for leaking. Thanks to the block. She's a dirty ass girl. One asshole their city says she loves the car and then she found it. Oh she told me that. Allow these girls sales stories all the time but they tell you one thing they don't do is talk to knee leagues. My my last name might be leaks leaking all right good line. Here's why go to. WWAFL tell us. Who Do you think leaked the note out to the press? Navy Cynthia Kenya or someone else Who Do you think did well? Here's the thing. Nina obviously sent me the car. Well I got the car from Marlo but it was sealed and they got it from all right the only other person. The only time I didn't have that in my possession was when Noel ticket when Mike proposed but you read it to everybody. I didn't memorize verbatim art okay. Everybody thinks Kenya leaked all right. Finally we all know the Bevy Smith. Breath is a licensed fashion connoisseur. But I want her to take a break from critiquing hemlines to sound off on all the trend lines. Today's pop culture landscape with validation nation. ooh round three Bevy neon big bags puppy sleeves are among the predicted. Twenty two thousand fashion trends. What is your Trendy must-have item going in the New Year puffy sleep because God bless her soul mate? You Recipes Diane Cavaliers Dominique Deborah during Anderson's in my CNN New Year's Eve Broadcast Lindsay Lohan. told us she's aiming to work in Hollywood this year. Do you foresee the industry welcoming her with open arms or will this be an uphill battle. I it's definitely going to be an uphill battle. She stunned his time and again she's at how many comebacks I think she should just you know she's doing quite while doing nightclubs. And things like that they are you excited to watch jalen Shakira performance. The super bowl or are there other artists. You would have preferred to provide of artists. I think it was a bit of a divisive Isis. Move to have the Latin American kind of and the Hispanic kind of question there with all the drama going on when the NFL and black people. Okay okay go. Kind of divisive move on their part Dodson. Tonight's Golden Globe awards being going completely meatless now curling a plan meal to attendees okay. First of all it's an open bar. They have copious amounts of moet champagne on the table. Now you already know if you all eat some Broccoli sprouts child. You won't be drunk. Yeah that'd be completely bombing at the box office. We'll ever thought that that was a good idea. The about the song. Yes that's it. No one ever want to see that thing ever thank the tonight show. Marks are first clubhouse turn up in the New Year and new decades since nobody does new beginnings quite like a real housewife sun. Blade New Year's resolution brought to you by booking dot com. Cynthia I'm GonNa give you pairs of New Year's resolutions for each check your fellow Atlanta wives. You Gus which razzies are real in which are real fake okay media leaks. Is this real okay. Which of these Israel keep working on myself myself day by day to be the best neither is or to drink in moderation or quit altogether old to keep working on myself no drink in moderation okay in Kenya to write a daily message in Brooklyn's journal or to stop spending so much on fashions and put more money away for Brooklyn To stop spending so much money on Your two for to Brooklyn. Eva Tried not to get pregnant this year with baby number four or stay off social social media as much as possible. It's too negative. Oh It's right out to get pregnant your corral Burt Candy Candy Tucker slowdown slowdown on expanding. My Empire stayed home with the kids more or I plan on only making intentional business decisions all year. Stay on with the kids. It's more. Is this decision. Okay your show improve my health after become healthier. Denis's help chain job. Dennis help change more. PJ's Jason Diapers Healthier. Thank you so much. Cynthia people are tweeting and they still really really think that Kenya tried to sabotage your proposal Bevy Mr Jason Anthony said he loved fashion Queens. Do you keep in contact with Ms Lawrenson Sendero. J Yes at all times Lawrence's my baby and he actually just wrap the new film. Wayne and Derek. J. is doing quite well as well so yeah we all still together. Can you tweeted that. She hung out with the blogger in question in Miami with any And so she is firmly firmly Saying this was not her who leaked that Cynthia shared an age. FACEBOOK Dawson. Said your response to marlow about Kenya. Bringing your product and band. Tomorrow's tomorrow's advance was well. You invited her so she came however a clinician disrespect now look. I don't agree with Kenya. And you're bringing a marching band that was like Super Shady. Like I'm not saying it wasn't but at the same time I mean. Would I do it now. But what can you do it. Yes let's go to Donovan from Florida. Donovan what your question. I- Andy. Hi How are you doing. Great vacation in Miami had agreed great. So do you think Kenya is jealous of your relationship. Because her relationship. It's not going around with mark or what's help we can. I don't think she's jealous. You know I mean I think her situation is completely separate online. It is what it is. I mean she wants her our relationship to work. I want her relationship to work at the end of the day. I still stand by the fact that I believe that can. It's my friend. Even though she was a bad friend at the proposal was he is my friend mistake verbal diarrhea perhaps people. You just can't cut people off every time they do something dumb. Ah France or dump stop speaking dumb stuff on next land of the group continues to experience a major audio issues. Here's a sneak peek. Who Have you you heard me tell me recorded me? First of all a recording is something very different than Audie whereas regiment was a serious situation. So if you WANNA get landlord you respect me as with the woman in the world wait a minute. This is the thing that I know you adjust negative missy. See here this is who you are when I get pissed off and Marlow got into it and I got really upset because this whole thing with knee and I it's like really something that's really personal and hurtful to so it is a trigger and like the whole season marlow really kept saying you know you know. She really came under the pretense. She was trying to get us back together. So when it went left and I was like wait a minute. I thought you were trying to make this work matter. We're all in the room together. Why are you talking crazy okay? It's game time. Everybody's since I'm joining with females I wanNA know which looks they thought rocked in which caused them to to say what the frock. It's time for the reading room. We're GONNA walk through some of the Golden Globes fashion here. We go Washington in Aljazeera. What do you think I'm Tuxedo? I thought it was very risking daring for her to have on no shirt and just that joy for the cleavage and everything very very risque from his Carrie Washington you dig it some bill. It just doesn't feel like pulp would definitely want to investigate them. And Alex Panache. Yes Ah the thing all of this things right now. The best thing about this for me is that billy poor the has finally come into its own. He's been the broadly for many years. Yeah mainstream and he's showing these kids. What they've been missing for decades was sleeping on? Okay Cynthia what do you think. A good Gwyneth. Paltrow in here you know I love Mah Blah Blah this okay. y'All he also familiar right French Golfing Shirley's on in Dior now. No NEON NEON is a really big trend right now. But that's a horrible hub on her also. I think it was supposed to be like really racy. Because it's a boost underneath with the Grecian. Look I just think it's too much and doing but not enough. Talk to me about J.. Lo in Valentino ladies. Cynthia Oh my God I love Jaylo lakes I love her however in this look I will say she's given me. I mean I know it's the holidays. We just got. Aw Christmas present because she was up a Golden Globe as a stripper in the very far away from that okay. I'M GONNA give him no sex appeal. I`Ma give them you know Meryl Streep that's being looks Taylor Swift Etro Mall. She looks like a matron. Okay I don't buy the book out in Ghalia Lob love if I pronounced that correctly I love to. He had his so much and I and she's got a great shape and I don't think that this benefits her body as much as got. Oh Great Ati I don't think it was. I don't think choice. B Waller Bridge and Ralph and Russo. I Love I love boo clay. Shoutout to the shouldn't go ask moment and I love all the tool and the Klay and all the detail in that suits okay. What about Margot Robbie inch canal? You know what come on the bride ride shape and why would you do this bill. Look these baggy pants and the domino. You WanNA uncomfortable dollar Laura dern and YSL cussing that two independent spirit awards. Andy Okay okay. Okay okay. One More Cate Blanchett in Mary Tron. Zoo Okay so let me just tell you this very important architecturally important look and the reason why I love this. Is Kate Blanchett whereas closed divinely. Well she served this look and I think that. Not many people cookware. This and she does it. Thanks thanks for playing solution. Sweatshirt solution is more brother available shop by Bravo dot com and emailed emails. Cynthia what is Peter. Think of Mike. He'll be invited to the wedding. I don't think you'll be invited to the wedding. And if he is I don't think you'll come But I really haven't talked to Peter Out Mike so I wish him well and I hope that he wishes me well. Big New Year's Eve party you know in Miami. No one really Apollo right. Oh Apollo was her to know that you're giving in a way toward I heard was it's for my mom goes to Brielle L. Bearman for kicking off New Year new mission by dissolving her lip fellers we'll great reminder for people who resolve to lose weight. You don't need to specify where the weight is coming tonight. I call goes to the Ferrari that drove into Lisa Vander Pumps restaurant pump today. Having a car crash up pump is a big change for l.. VP WHO's restaurants generally just employed train wrecks themselves. I want to thank the avenue. All right we are here with Cynthia Bailey. In order beverly's book streams and say all right So here's the deal in honor of tonight's Golden Globes we're saluting the best performances by a real house five in a dinner fight so head on over to. Wwe Way to vote for your pick. Here are the nominees the nominees for best performance by a real housewife in dinner fight. Drama are juice the red mic unprotected. Yes make any with me everything Competition is all right you guys go to WWAFL dot and vote. Wow well okay. This seems to be a landslide for Bethany. Bethany is watching the show all right. Let's keep this up because it's it's taking a minute and let's go to some calls caller it is Tricia from Las Vegas. Hey tricia what's your question. Listen hey my questions from badly I wanNA know. which celebrity do you think needs a fashion reset for twenty twenty more twenty to win Sh- who's a celebrity looks a mess? y'All tell me I don't know. I think I want to see everyone. WHO's young do that do it really? Well Taylor swift tonight looked a little matronly. Margot Robbie looked a little like hat. I find be young. It's not a Lotta time that you have left to show you the scene right. You should know that the GM all right Andrea from New York. Hey Andrea what's your question and looks like Bethany one that expired. Yeah I wanted to know what the house will be part of your bridal bridal party good one that's a great question. You know winning. I am not doing a small wedding. I don't think he's going to be super big but in terms of bridesmaids look a mind is like a big. I don't know I'm going to have rights meets on. Could you save your coins drama drama. Let's go to Alex from Long Island Day. Alex which question. Hey My questions debbie okay. What's The craziest thing you saw when you went to the mega last year all? Wow The craziest thing I saw. I went to make gain La. You know what honestly Andy I felt like the met gala just like like any other Hollywood party I've been to. I used to go to the met gala back in the day when it was really fashion people and now it's become just really celebrity driven is not about fashion anymore more and so I just felt like an Oscar party a Golden Globes worthy. It will feel like an Infield that special to me CY winter. Uh Burn up from Alabama. He very blessed. Hey Andy Hi bevy high An Mike Hike. My question is for Cynthia. I was just wondering well you am. I do a pre nup I aw I mean I think it just is smart it just protects everyone and we're working on a lot of really great things together and We actually had this conversation with candy and todd and we got a chance to see how they kind of worked it out but We're tweeting out. Yes we're good. We're both had my money taken before. Ah I don't take mighty agan money you know. Oh not implying that she will take my mom like when you come into a relationship with yours. Yours is mine is mine and we made together. We can split absolutely happens to in that that way. It won't end by the way I love the thank you control room for the split screen on Hasselback. Yes Cynthia Bevy my it off. Thanks for listening to the PODCAST. Everybody hope you enjoyed the show. Remember new episodes episode. Go live Monday through Friday at four PM Eastern time make sure you're subscribed to have a great rest of your.
175: Use Your Voice to Develop Trustworthiness - Cynthia Zhai
"<music> you're listening to the daily sales tips podcast and I'm your host Scott Ingram. Today's tip comes to us from Cynthia Gye. Cynthia is a voice coach Speaker and author. She has helped business professionals and professional speakers from forty six countries across five continents with their voice to speak with impact and conviction that engages in inspire people to embrace change and take action here. She is with today's tip what as the most important quality as person as a voice coach. I'd say it is trust worthiness. The moment your prospects in Meteo for the first time they sense that you are trustworthy that you are someone. Button who has their best interest in mind instead of closing the sale as your focus. Can you project TWAS worthiness to someone you just met yes you can a large percentage of that impression comes from the way you sound sad any most salespeople have overlooked the power of their voices in building trust with their prospects. The voice problems that I've seen are in the way of fior trustworthiness are one newspeak fast. If you speak fast you can come across as nervous not patient not stable focusing on rushing the sale in one word. You don't sound trustworthy the second problem your voice trembles. When that happens you sound nervous you come across as someone who's not able to stay collected easily loses control oh and not able to handle stress well also in one word not able to be trusted with responsibility the third voice problem? Your Voice is monotonous. You'll appear lacking compassion with your product or service on interested was the prospect or he's off her knees and interests. All the three biggest voice problems can be overcome with one powerful. Powerful technique because one of the biggest causes for the three problems is holding your breath while speaking eight out of ten of my clients have noticed that they held their breath while speaking very often gosh this is very unconscious and two is brought to your awareness to sound twas worthy. The first step is to start observing when you hold your breath while speaking for example some of my clients noticed one. They were thinking they held their breasts or when they faced someone who looked aggressive. They held their rest so start to observe when you. ooh Hold your breasts. Secondly start from us. Your breath while speaking voice is supported by your breath. When you speak you are supposed to use your breath if you don't use your breath well speaking saying this is how you sunlight can be any difference might demonstration? How did I come across to you now? Well that's probably come across as someone who's not confident who's not trustworthy or maybe even someone who is holding something back. How do you use your breath while speaking you can start with using more wrath on your CCI worse while here keywords referred to the words that will convey the message? If we use this as an example this product will help you save time and cut cost. This is the sentence so now I am going to say it was more air on the keywords more breath more air. This product will help you save time and cut cost now. Can you hear the difference not only I slowed down but also my voice was more stable and no longer longer monotonous. This is a very simple yet powerful technique to help you project as someone voice trustworthy who is calm and collected and who has the prospects the best interest if you'd like to learn more from Cynthia Click over to daily sales dot tips forward slash one seventy five where you'll find links to her free three part video lessons her very popular Youtube Channel.
Cynthia Bailey & Vivica A. Fox
"Welcome to the Bravo clubhouse for the podcast edition of Watch. What happens live with me? Andy Cohen UH. She made your heart race in kill Bill. And she's practically racing down the aisle to become Mrs Mike L.. It's live with Cindy availa investigate Fox. Now now it on your own Andy Cohen. And the guys who came to turn looks and get urged before she gets married next year. My first guest. Just try to make her wedding house tag. Jill happened in a way. That's anything GEL please. Welcome real outside of Atlanta Cynthia. Bailey I threw a party for the royal wedding which makes sense because it's always a party when she's here catcher on the sixth and final season of empire. Are Airing Tuesdays on Fox. Welcome back VIVICA A fox. I guess you got the high boot the standoff with wow raids okay behind the bar train my dog Walker to sit stay and beg and tonight we are begging him for drinks. Zossen lucky dog on Saturdays. It's my friend Brandon McMillan a brand new van. It's win with any sharks lately. November December out charge again. Wow great whites wow you wanna go swimming with the the Atlanta housewives sometime. We'll do it. Does waters around Kenya called Mark so we could see baby Brooklyn but he's see much more focused on criticizing Kenya Watch High Gel twirl keeps licking her in her face but dogs who loves them wing. She's he's a Rockstar. She's advanced. She's more events in that class. Anybody else mark has two kids to pass relationship. It was like you don't know anything I've I've had two kids before. What do you know about kids? I mean we know the end end of this story but seeing seeing this unfold unfold is how do you react to it at that point. You know in filming or just Stephen No one can you. I thought things were good. I knew that there were some issues but I didn't really realize how bad things were until the season. Well God it. Cynthia Cynthia. When Noel came back from college she opened up about her love life? This was big and a curve ball and take a look and I hope he move in. I sell the law guys I definitely ended up meaning a couple of girls that I thought were cool like in a romantic aspect. So you like guys and girls. There's a lot of attractive cars trucks barrels. I just want you to be happy oil. You meet an amazing young lady. That's a blessing as long as the people and they love and support you. It makes me excited that Noel feels like she a safe. Space to share. Love is love to that reaction to that. That was wonderful. Took you by surprise. Yeah I didn't know and you always feel like as a parent that you know. Nolan are super tight. You you guys watch the show and I had no idea. She was going to learn a lot when she went to college. But I didn't know she was going to learn that she was fluent. Wow It really. I commend your response and your support to her mental. Lots of Asu that you recently co hosted a Halloween haunted to the House Party with Adrian. Me How long have you known each a long time. I've known a lot of the house nine from coming on shows like this but yeah my friends got dressed up and we had the best time it was during the summer. Tina Knowles through a Gumbo Lavrov Saatchi. SASHI birthday did. How was Tina as your party plan? Oh my gosh. It was the best party ever. It was like researching Achy Island. Yeah and then it was amazing view in the Hollywood hills and she crowned me. I love I know you already a queen questions for Cynthia. Thanks for coming in but before we get to those. Here's what three things. I'm obsessed with tonight first. Kenya and EVA started this season. Bit At odds. But here's what they do seem to have one thing in common a friendship with Cynthia. We'll see how that works for Cynthia to defend her considering that she don't really know you like that she was like. I'm the only real friend is Cynthia has. She's picked her rider. Die Before and now she's attaching herself to evoke like my best friend. She bought me a necklace. Says unless you basically say they you'd and bring your kids to the party because you didn't know about king is energy and it kind of my key. I choose what and where they go. Can you be a little dramatic to the a Bailey. Aley normally goes hard for king is though firmly in the middle of this one. I don't know how as I know. I don't know that this workout so it's not gonNa work out for her the goodness I'm always in some weird friend triangle. It's crazy but here's the thing you know Kenya is she getting you know. Kenya is has changed a lot since she has become a mother. I'll say that but let's say she didn't become the Theresa Sanchez. Come a mom. I mean for the better. I mean to be very honest thirty second tonight. We saw Porsche trying to navigate her relationship with Dennis after his infidelity. But here's what she's realizing. There's no clear path ahead. This was so dramatic and heartbreaking breaking watch in at US tonight Lord. Kiss me in the mouth by baby. What does that mean? I'm like really confused. Therapy Wareham. I can't think of a damn thing to even say to him Sir. Yes to be disrespected at the most sacred time. It's like I just I can't forget that. Not Forgivable I had just heard my fiance that he actually had sex with someone. I didn't need to know anything I mean this. This is a wild ride to watch because it's happening shows such a gym and I was so disappointed because I really thought that she had found a good man. That was gonna like you know treasure her and I. I was just so disappointed to you. See Him do her do her that way it was. It was tough watching it. You know portion. I honor an amazing place so happy for her and I always rooted for just love and Dennis makes her happy so Salat for you guys to kind of continue to watch but I hope it works out. All right finally Vikas Empire character loves high class fashion but when it comes to some Vikas Pass looks. I'm curious if she thinks nanny just clash. Here's what it's time for adversity or if you get if not we throw it on the biology. Okay Okay here you you are at the daytime Emmy Awards in Nineteen Ninety. Cheer about you blockchain. Okay here you are at the two thousand three MTV BE BMA's essence awards in two two thousand for Sachi. Here you are at the. Why Do Fools Fall in love premier? Ninety eight okay at the soul train awards in two thousand and one not you in two thousand nine. In here you are at the Juliana Man Premier in two thousand in here you are at the Food Lem for Mir Ninety seven the world all music awards in Monte Carlo in two thousand three right the big in two thousand three awards. Let's go to Katie from Arkansas Katy. What's your question Tandy? My questions we're seeing that Did you have any idea that the mom you kicked off and the premier ago so powerful they did not know that it was going to go viral but I regretted it immediately. Looked great with it. Why did you thought it was so o'connor I do it all the time with my keys? Very comfortable right. Obviously the wave the lashes. Everything goes and it's thought you know what this is so great to share my journey with this man. The real on the real is like Dick auto black. Okay okay. The cameras are rolling. Let's go that was very liberating to say. You know what I can put it on right. I can take it off and still I know. That's right the alley wants to you agree with Lee Daniels decision to not have just see small latte on the last season of empire was tough. Yep Up he's family. He's always going to be family loving to death but there was just too much Drama surrounding the circumstances. You in touch with them still at yes. I love them and who knows. Don't count him out Yummy. Sam Okay on empire the emailed Cynthia's Peter called you to congratulate you on your engagement. No isn't it on that note. May See p Said said. I was shocked when Porsche. Dennis took the ring back. When you and Peter got divorced? You keep the ringer. Give it back. I did keep the ring. You cut your the reaction. I mean in New York City. Hey Sarah which question make questions for you. Where where the rumors true that you went stated Dennis Rodman and how would you characterize your relationship absolutely false? I was actually asked to at the last minute. Go to to the Oscars with Dennis Rodman. His outfit was brighter than mine And I said yes. Huge Basketball Fan Chicago Bulls. At the time we went to the Oscars at the end of the night I said good night. All Right Theresa from Texas Theresa. What's your question for Cynthia Bailey? Early high brooms recently came out. That mark daily. Couldn't take his eyes off of Kenya at Brooklyn's birthday party do you think there's potential attention that they might get back together. And would you support that. I mean the rumors absolutely wasn't really windy. Yes Look Thabit listen. I am hopeful and optimistic. A stick that they can work it out at the end of the day. I want can't be happy. Also want mark to be happy all right on next week. ATLANTA ni-ni is excited to to celebrate pride. But she's not excited to see Cynthia Watch. Are you going to say something into either. Say Hello Cynthia's right there when you going to happen issue issue talking about today. They're going to come down here for. I want you to be nice to give and forget a move on. Okay here. Cynthia has done seven interviews. Sippy want people to think that she's mealy nice sweet angel in a next time you take a gun and shoot a machine that made you laugh. You hadn't insist that you really Lena tickled by that. I look you guys just have to watch the season all I can tell you watches that you know. I still despite vite everything that I've been through with Denia. Still have love for her a right and I hope that we can get to at least a respectable place okay. Let's go to Kelly from Maryland Jay. Kelley what's your question. Hi Andy. My question is difficult if all of the Atlanta housewives husband worst single would you want to do who would I wanNA do out of. I can take it back. I think Apollo what was Harvey. I yeah you know what. I'm going to cosign that I'm going to tell everybody on. An I'm tired is entangled in some complicated family drama. But they're still one thing. That's harder to straighten out the tangled web of Hollywood families Bitta consent. The I'm going to show. Oh you pairs of celebrities and you tell me you chapman and rebel Wilson or they related absolutely no not no they're not Bernie Sanders and leary. David now I'll like SORTA Kinda causing Scarlett Johansson and Ruth Bader GINSBURG. Yes all current lenny. Kravitz yes I know they're not yes Shirley maclaine and Warren Beatty no yes the other the Lawrenson Keanu Reeves. No no they're not no Madonna. Hillary Clinton No oh hell aw annual radcliffe no yes they are no tail end decoder fanning. Yes yes yes distant cousin. Tom Cruise no no no. They're not the Vegas say Nancy. What was the question first anthea? Okay what was your reaction to the news that Dennis did cheat on Porsche but not with sincerely well. I was disappointed that he cheated at all with anyway right but I was particularly having. It wasn't sincerely because she told us right. Run camera that that it wasn't her. Yeah that was good. That was true but I I really feel bad especially you know they have new beautiful daughter. It's it's just a lot. I really hope they work at J.. Wants to know your honest opinion of trump. While filming the Apprentice Vivica. He was charming. You're absolutely right. Donald Trump was the reason why I decided to do celebrity apprentice but how he has conducted himself as president has been completely disappointing to me. All right it's time for my today. That goes to my guest. Cynthia Bailey gotten engaged aged fiance Mike Hill since her last visit showed the ring view. That's a fine lines hashtag. Mike and I really like each other lot. Do see a lifelong relationships. You want some sort of wasted. You GotTa do you. Would we get engaged when I get on one. I want you to let the man propose where he's raising down thirsty. I prayed for my kill now. A for prayer was Mitch's as lives in Atlanta. The only way you could marry a hotter is married. This one that Cynthia as fifty cent I'd shackled to a new study that says the water on most. US Airlines is so unsafe. It's recommended to avoid coffee tea and even washing your hands on planes. I guess the reason plain coffee always tastes. Like crab is that it might might be laced with teeny tiny bits of poop. The more you know everybody if you drink that water it sounds sounds like the airport. Runway won't be the only thing with skid marks. I want to thank the guys Melissa John. Today's episode is brought to you by cash APP. It's the best way to send money to friends and has long been ranked the number one APP and finance in the APP store. You may not know it but cash APP has a ton of new features that make it even better than your bank including the cash card cash boosts bitcoin and more with the cash card. You can design a free debit card right from the APP that allows you to spend and money wherever you like pull money out of ATM. And even get instant discounts or boosts at your favorite shops and restaurants across the country boosts offer the best reward for a debit card hard period. You literally get instant discounts every time you swipe your cash card at spotlight sweet green and Japan and even save every time you shop at whole foods or target plus more of your favorite places his check out all boosts available to you right from your cash app and use them instantly when you swipe your cash card on top of that cash offers the ability to buy and sell bitcoin in seconds or even deposit your paycheck directly into the APP. Clearly your cash needs this APP. Download the cash APP for free on the APP store or Google play or visit cash dot the APP slash download for more info now consider realize of Atlanta Sundays at eight on Bravo VIVICA. It can be seen on empire. Dog Lessons Trainer dog in seven days is out now brandon. What is the number one problem? Some people come to you with with their home household pets Out of control dogs just in general. And what is your number one piece of advice. I exercise the dog that ninety percent of a dog problem. Ninety percent of a dog behavior issues comes from lack of exercise. So I tell them you don't need a dog trainer. Union dog Walker right right and also I find that you have been able to do a lot of behavior modification with your coin trick which is say what it is the penny bottle but county pennies in a water bottle. All twenty cents solves any problem. Okay and what do you do with the with. The pennies in the wake dog is doing something excessive barking chewing yelling. What did you barking at accessible? You just shake the pennies. Say the word no and what happens. Is the pennies startles. The dog stops needed. Do not like this sound you guys. It works and it changes babe. You're it's twenty cents. Anybody can do that less empty water bottle. Let's go to Alexa from New York. Hey Alexa what's your question. Panzi Cynthia I love you guys so much and tie catcher Mike Westchester VIVICA. Though so my question is have you read the final script for empire. And can you give us clues on. What would be the either your character? Canda Have you read it. We haven't been out there we're right we're literally on show. We're halfway through the season there. Yeah okay through the season alright. They've been doing this teaser. Of who shot lucious right and then cook gets in the car. So did they both off each other right. Yeah so we don't know yet I'd be away. Let's go to Amanda from Iowa listened. Hi Andy my question is for Cynthia Cynthia. Yeah after everything that's happened to. What do you think the chances are of you writing up a new friendship contract with neem yards as well? The last one didn't work out so well like I'm out of the frame contract business. I think that I am. I'm just a great place in my life and yes sure why don't have to love hate relationship you think I I don't know I mean mine is more love. That's what it is I I don't know is. Is this something about our relationship but I will say and you guys will get to see on the show. I really really try to. We have a conversation. We have a major conversation. And you know I I get the personal closure that I need because I take accountability. I take I do everything themselves by the way I love your show. I noticed Q.. Allies call Brenda from Indiana Hebron. Which your question? Hi I just wanted to say relief fast. The Andy I love you so so so so so much I'm not so much back. Okay so question is for VIVICA. Of course the ANA. Yes brenna from Indiana. Yeah hey girl hey. Quentin Tarantino said. He was having having conversations with Thurman this Summer About Kill Bill Three. Have you heard anything. And who would you want to see. Play your daughter well you you don't honest with you that we've heard rumors about the kill Bill. Three sequel happening for years. Yeah and Quinton falls in and out of love with Hollywood you know if they like leak script of his he's done with holiday So I'd love for him to come back. I'd love for us to do kill Bill. Three and the little girl that plate eight my daughter her name was embrose. I'd love for her because we were supposedly waiting for her to grow up right. I love for her to play it. What did you time in Hollywood? No you didn't see it. Which one was that the? What's your questions about? Mommy's been working. Thanks for you're listening to the PODCAST. Everybody hope you enjoyed the show. Remember new episodes go live Monday through Friday at four. PM Eastern time. Make sure your subscribe -scribed have a great rest of your night.
What Leaders Can Learn from Airplanes - Thoughts from Kevin
"Welcome to all Kevin Friday where we take the audio from one of our remarkable TV episodes and put it here for you on the podcast. Hope you enjoy so you can look at the videos. All of the past ones at blog dot Kevin I can vary dot com slash video but for now on with the podcast. I welcome to the remarkable leadership leadership. Podcast we are here each week to help you lead more confidently and make a bigger difference both professionally and personally this episode. What is sponsored by Kevin's free weekly newsletter? Unleashing your remarkable potential which is full of articles and resources to help you become a more confident and successful leader sign up by going to remarkable podcast dot com forward slash newsletter. And now here's your host Kevin. Hi I'm Kevin I can vary and I'm here to help you reach your potential as a leader. Any human being. Welcome to remarkable TV today. We're talking about the connection between lean airplanes and leaders very interesting. Are you ready. Let's get started while back. I use you to challenge to viewers remarkable. TV saying. Give me a word and challenge me to connect that word or that idea to leadership and if you do you and if we pick your idea we'll send you one of our journals. So Cynthia Harrison took the challenge. Cynthia will get a journal. Here's the challenge. She said Kevin How all our leaders like airplanes aircraft. Well Cynthia as it turns out. I know a lot about this topic because I kid on lots of airplanes to do my work. Can I been on lots of airplanes in my life jets etc etc.. So I thought this one might be kind of fun so here we go four things. That are a connection between airplanes airplanes and leaders first airplanes can take you higher and faster higher than we can go ourselves of course get to places faster than we can get of course ourselves. And that's the thing that leaders can do. Leaders can take us. Higher can take a group to a new place that they've never ever been before and help us get to a destination faster than we ever get by ourselves. Leaders like airplanes can be a vehicle for Success S. and greater perspective airplanes can take you higher and faster and so can leaders second. Airplanes are complex. Will clearly there are hundreds of systems on airplanes and they. It's not just complex to get them in the air but to keep them in the air and to keep everybody safe and comfortable and one hundred other things. Airplanes are complex and being a leader is complex. There's more than one way to do it. Well more than one way to succeed as a leader and there are hundreds of things we need to understand or continued to understand better if we want to lead human beings things more effectively. Airplanes are complex and so is the task that leaders face number. Three airplanes require maintenance and attention. I don't know about you but I don't want to get on a plane that hasn't been maintained that that isn't being looked at carefully that isn't being maintained. That isn't being carefully checked checked over. That isn't being cared for and as a leader if we want to be successful as we can be we must maintain ourselves selves our minds. Our bodies our spirits we must be continually growing our skills taking care of ourselves so that we can take care of others if we don't take here of the airplane it's not going to get people to its destination if we as leaders don't take care of ourselves. We can't lead as effectively as we need to lead and number four. Airplanes can be scary now. I don't really have any issues with getting on an airplane. I'd do it without thinking but some people getting on a plane flying flying high in the areas of scary proposition. And when we stop and think about it as a leader it can be scary to. We're asking people to follow follow us and to trust that the place that we're going is a valuable place. We're asking people to do things that may be hard we're being asked to do. Things is that might be challenging for us. Airplanes can be scary and so can leadership so there are some big leadership lessons here. Cynthia anthea that we can take from airplanes. As leaders number one is that there is a tremendous responsibility and opportunity not that comes with our role as a leader and care and feeding of ourselves is required. Let me close with today's tweet. Leaders like airplanes lanes need maintenance and constant care to operate at peak of effectiveness. Are you taking care of yourself as a leader. Well Cynthia One a journal. Because I took her idea so I'm going to tell you that overtime I'm going to continue to take these challenges occasionally and so if you are watching remarkable TV you can send us your suggestion right here in the comments and if you do that you might win the journal it but either way if you keep watching remarkable TV you'll get new insights have a little fun each week. You and subscribe here to make sure you get every episode each week. Thanks for joining us. And I'll be back next week with another
Cynthia Payne Pt. 1: The Madam
"Due to the graphic nature of this investigation and trial. Listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of sexuality that some people may find offensive we advise extreme caution for listeners under thirteen. It was December sixth nineteen seventy eight all was quiet as evening fell over the city of London. The Christmas season had just begun peace on earth and goodwill towards men was proclaimed and felt all across the city even in the working class south London neighborhood of stratum. There was a palpable sense of holiday cheer but behind closed doors. Another sort of cheer was underway. It emanated from inside one particular house on amble side avenue. There wasn't anything noticeable about the place straight them was a rather anonymous area the city with rows of houses all blending together. But if that was the case why did police squad cars suddenly converge on amble side avenue on such a quiet evening. Why were they zeroing in on this humble? Homestead in a forgotten corner of London. The answer to these questions all centered on the home's owner one middle aged woman named Cynthia Payne after all inside Cynthia. Payne's house something quite unusual was happening. It was filled to the brim with men and women all of them at least half naked at just that moment of few women were escorting dumbstruck men upstairs while a few more put on a more public display of affection in the living room and presiding over. It all was Cynthia Payne with a drink in hand and a smile on her face Cynthia Payne, a friendly neighbor, a loving mother, a competent businesswoman. And in the eyes of the law abroa- thel owner. Tonight. The law had finally come for her. How should we determine a person's guilt? Do we defer to the evidence discovered by police or the verdict reached by a jury and what happens when the evidence and the verdict don't line up? Hi, I'm Vanessa Richardson. And this is not guilty apar- cast original show each week. We look at complicated. Criminal cases that test the limits of innocent until proven guilty. I will follow the police as they gathered evidence and testimony to build a case and charge a suspect in our next episode. We'll see that evidence play out in the courtroom and understand how the jury reached their verdict. This week were examining the nineteen seventy eight arrest of London brothel operator, Cynthia Payne will look at the origins of her business practice her very particular and ingenious methods of operating a clandestine. Brothel and how it all came toppling down during a fateful. Police raid next week will follow the various criminal trials that would result from this arrest as well as the great socio political debate stirred up by this provocative woman in a buttoned up time in this case, the court of law, and the court of public opinion came to a head bringing into question the entire framework of Britain's sex work laws at par cast. We're grateful for you our listeners you allow us to do what we love let us know how we're doing reach out on Facebook and Instagram at par cast and Twitter at par cast network. And if you enjoy today's episode the best way to help us is to leave a five star review wherever you're listening. It really does help us. We also now have merchandise head to par cast dot com slash merch. For more information. This sordid saga all began. When Cynthia Payne was born on December twenty fourth nineteen thirty to forty six years before the Christmas raid on her brothel in the seaside resort town of Bogner Regis far south from the city. She would one day. Call her own cynthia's mother died in nineteen forty-three leaving the ten year old Cynthia and her sister, Melanie in the care of their father Hamilton, the only problem was that Hamilton was often absent going away on business, trips and other ventures, even when the girl's mother was alive. He was a rather cold and distant parent, and he saw no reason to change now that she had passed on as he traveled constantly Hamilton entrusted the care of his daughters to housekeepers and schoolteachers between nineteen forty four and nineteen forty eight Cynthia was shuffled. From school to school never able to fit in or behave herself. Instead of paying attention in class. The thirteen year old Cynthia liked to read, however, her choice of reading content was always one thing in particular at the time, they were known as the boys weeklies, these serial publications were precursors to both the comic book, and the lad magazine, they were full of schoolboy stories all mischief pranks and tales from a socioeconomic level unseen, two children of the working class like Cynthia speaking to her own biographer, Paul Bailey for his profile and English. Madam pain recalls herself as a true tomboy quote. I liked to shock people. I liked to wake them up, and quote, but what really grabs cynthia's attention was these stories approach to sexuality in her biography. She remembers one issue that really confounded her one of the stories. Included with a very chaste kiss between the protagonist and his crush. But then in the next week's issue, the female character had suddenly become pregnant Cynthia had no idea what to make of this. No one around her either at home or in school ever spoke about sex. She didn't know the first thing about it. But from that point forward she became obsessed with unraveling its mysteries as she came of age during the nineteen fifties. Although to the great disappointment of her father Hamilton, she could hold down. Neither a trade school education, nor a job she still experienced a vast social education due to her curiosity cynthia's personality was full of life and verve. Unfortunately, it also brought undue attention onto the young woman at seventeen years old in nineteen forty nine Cynthia began a relationship with a four. Forty year old man as he was married. The men only used her for sex Cynthia later related that this was the beginning of her habit of chasing after sex as a means toward affection. Even though it seldom lead there. But the passionate young woman couldn't help herself. And it often led her to despair in nineteen fifty two Cynthia gave birth to her first child Dominic. She didn't have enough money to raise him herself. So she had to give him up to another woman, though, she always remained in contact Cynthia had a miscarriage from another affair in nineteen fifty three and had to put another child up for adoption in nineteen fifty four. But this time she lost contact with her child in nineteen fifty five Cynthia fell into her most dangerous love affair yet. With charming. Conman named Sam he was a stubborn and cruel man who refused to use contraceptives, Cynthia went through three abortions due to SAM's negligence and one of them nearly took her life after this Sam promised he would never get her pregnant again. But her love. Love for him was gone Cynthia felt used and left behind by love in general. She took work as a waitress and made it through the back half of the nineteen fifties. Supported by a wealthy man named joss joss didn't want Cynthia for sex just for her vivacious company. Through joss, Cynthia experienced the higher class life. She used to read about in her weeklies weekend drives in Joses Bentley fancy dinner parties were Cynthia learned the ins and outs of hosting and fine dining beyond her wildest dreams yet she never felt a part of this world. She was always a step removed, and she broke off her relationship to joss in the nineteen sixties Cynthia needed to find her own way. Even if it meant living destitute once again, but this was when destiny intervened. One evening sometime in the early nineteen sixties Cynthia met, a young female customer during a waitressing shift who asked if she could rent out cynthia's flat for the rest of the night, Cynthia realized this girl was a sex worker, but she wasn't put off at all in one night. Thanks to this girl's payment, Cynthia would make as much as she usually did in an entire week waitressing Cynthia accepted the offer and then decided to make a business out of it. She would rent a flat for ten pounds, and then charge a sex worker twenty pounds to use it after three months of this Cynthia had acquired enough money to rent out four flats simultaneously. Now, it is important to give some context on the social and political climate at the time sex work in Britain had always been legal. Of course, the sex workers themselves were always looked down upon. Only loose women without morals would ever resort to such a practice. So in turn they deserved little respect this stigma began to become more literali Zed in Britain in nineteen fifty six when parliament decided to take action against the sex work industry. Even if the public would never support a full ban. Some legislators saw way around this instead of making the work itself. Illegal. They would criminalize the infrastructure that supported the sex workers. This was the legal foundation that would someday be utilized against Cynthia Payne. The first form this took was the sexual offenses act of nineteen fifty six this law made it illegal to own and operate a brothel if one imagines a brothel as dingy and exploitative place. This might make sense, however, the sexual offenses act went further and defined a brothel as any residents where more than one woman operated as a sex worker in nineteen fifty nine this was joined with the street offenses act to quote, Donald sorelle Thomas's villains paradise a history of Britain's underworld the street offenses act of nineteen fifty nine sought to prevent the public nuisance of having sex workers on the pavements and thereby turned most of them into call girls. The mass availability of the telephone as much as moral determination by the authorities made the change possible fines of sixty pounds for pavements. Eliciting and possible imprisonment under the new law, accelerated it in other words, these laws did nothing to stop the practice of sex work. All they did was force. It deeper undercover and force the sex workers themselves into more dangerous situations, if a sex worker could not work on the streets and could only operate by themselves. They were opening themselves up to much greater risk and exploitation. This was not a solution. It was only an ineffective moral band-aid. So as Cynthia began renting out flats in the nineteen sixties per the sexual offenses act of nineteen fifty six. She was also most definitely breaking the law. She had to bribe suspicious landlords to keep them quiet and the sex workers were often laid on their own payments to keep up Cynthia had to take her own job in the sex industry as a made to a Madam running her own full brothel. It was here that Cynthia I realized that there were other services to offer clients outside of traditional sex, namely more, taboo, subjects like bondage and crossdressing. After Cynthia herself was forced to sleep with a landlord to keep a roof over her head. She realized something if she was going to be a sex worker she wanted to be in control of her life and her safety. She'd had enough abusive relationships outside of such a dangerous industry Cynthia Payne was going to take charge, and if others were going to use sex to create despair, she was going to use it to make people happier. She began by putting her name into the underground newsletters known as call lists Cynthia moved from flat to flat to keep her true business hidden she also began collaborating with a sex worker named Janet who specialized in bondage domination much to Cynthia surprise. She found a lot of satisfaction in this type of work, and perhaps even more surprisingly to her of vast and satisfy -able Custer. Base looking for just this type of service this included some high paying clientele made up of lawyers doctors professors and even members of parliament soon enough sometime around nineteen seventy four or nineteen seventy five Cynthia had saved enough to buy her own home. So she wouldn't be under the thrall of any landlord and could operate with a little less fear of discovery. She acquired the house on amble side avenue that became known as Cran more. As she told her biographer, Paul Bailey in typical Cynthia fashion full of wit and innuendo quote. Now, I could run the brothel of my dreams, I fell in love with the place instantly. I went from room to room thinking to myself what bloody wonderful parties I'd be able to give in the summer, the clients could take their drinks into the garden. Oh, it would be so civilized after the cramped conditions. I was used to working in. I was terribly excited at the thought of running a knocking shop in that posh suburban St. and quote to Cynthia this all seem to be running along smoothly. She developed a reliable group of workers mostly part timers who often came from respectable backgrounds and families and a whisper network of advertising that kept her parties and income flowing for years, but in the waning months of summer nineteen seventy eight and anonymous. Tip reached the London police. This woman from stratum was not who she appeared to be. There was a criminal on amble side avenue. Coming up, the police take a keen interest in finding out just what lies inside Cynthia Payne's home, and we'll get a firsthand look at one of her legendary parties and its many colorful attendees now back to the story. In early September nineteen Seventy-eight chief superintendent Reginald Searle's of the London metropolitan police called the meeting to order in his office. They had just received a strange lead from an anonymous source claiming that a house of depravity and disorder was operating right under their noses and depravity and disorder were two things that chief superintendent Searle's would not abide yet. So far. It seemed utterly unbelievable to Searle's and his men this tip claimed that a woman named Cynthia Payne who lived in a house known as Cran more on a sleepy street was the Madam of a high traffic brothel Searle's just could not fathom that someone would be able to pull this off without causing a neighborhood uproar. But this was another example of how the authorities misunderstood the sex work industry. It wasn't always disruptive. And it wasn't always obvious in fact, ever since the laws changed so drastically in nineteen fifty three the undercover skills of the best sex workers had only improved take it from Cynthia herself. When she addressed the issue of keeping the neighborhood piece in her biography, quote, I had to be cautious. When I moved to stretch them. Find out the lie of the land. I had to pass myself off as respectable the neighbors never had a bloody clue I was that, discreet. I used to give my sex parties at lunchtime. When the other women in the road were busy in their kitchens. I space them out to start with and then I gave them on every other month. I told the people living on either side of me that I like to hold a business conference. They really believed. I was a businesswoman. I was of course. But not in the way, they thought and quote, Cynthia was a professional and so to those around her she seemed. Completely legitimate. Furthermore, in another clever attempt to maintain this sheen of respectability, she came up with a very unique payments game her clients didn't pay for sex with cash instead they utilized a very British alternative. It was something that also called back to cynthia's childhood in a working class society. In nineteen forty six the British government, instituted something called the luncheon voucher scheme. These small paper slips were a form of welfare for the poor worth a little less than three pounds, a piece companies would print a large amount and workout deals with local restaurants. So their workers could dine out and the company itself wouldn't have to provide food for their employees, a stencil ably the British government claimed this was a system designed to help the British working class. Eat more healthily, however, its value never increased past fifteen Pence even into the twenty first century despite the establishment of the nationwide luncheon voucher company in nineteen fifty five which standardized these vouchers across the country. They remained yet. Another example of hearted government intervention into public problems by two thousand thirteen their value still hovered below. Hello three pounds or about four dollars. Monumentally less useful in the modern day that said in the mid twentieth century this small some was valuable to female workers like Cynthia, according to a vice article the average woman's weekly wage was just over three pounds while men earned almost twice the amount Cynthia was certainly earning far less than that. When she started to work. This is all to say that Cynthia was quite familiar with the voucher system when she began running her Cran Morehouse brothel in the nineteen seventies. Despite the vouchers becoming a bit of a national joke over the years. She was about to award. These nearly worthless paper slips their greatest and most lasting fame. Not for the purchase of food. But an entirely different service. The process all began at Cynthia Payne's front door where guests were met by the smiling. Adam herself who guided them inside with a hand on their shoulder. In exchange for twenty five pounds paid to Cynthia directly each client received the exact same service, food and drink would be provided for as long as they wished to stay most of it made and poured by Cynthia her specialty poached eggs on toast and a Cup of tea. She thought it the perfect food to recharge the body for the rest of the parties events, then the new arrivals were shuffled into the living room to join the rest of the guests the price of admission also purchased the chance to see one of cynthia's many acquired reels of adult film projected up for all to see after the film Cynthia called forward to of her sex workers who would then engage in a live public show. Finally after a guest moved through each room in cynthia's, gaudy downstairs exhausting their purchased services. The Madame would again approach. And handover a luncheon voucher. The clients would then lineup along the staircase to cynthia's second floor voucher grasped in hand. And wait for one of the women to come by the client would hand over the voucher and go upstairs for a more private experience. While Cynthia was under no allusion that she wasn't running a sex operation. She saw the practice in a much more freeing light while some of her workers were indeed full-time sex workers more and more of the women involved came from different arenas entirely, perhaps they came along with their husbands to see what the fuss was about or even out of sheer interest. Just as the male clientele included, many men of the so-called respectable class. Many of the women working at cynthia's were schoolteachers, stay at home. Mothers, nurses, secretaries all were welcome to explore their kinky or sides. What was not allowed were young patrons Cynthia said an age limit for those who hope to join her personal luncheon voucher program to quote her directly. I've always been fond of the elderly. I came to the conclusion that my brothel was going to. Cater for the needs of old men. I didn't rule out younger blokes. But I set the minimum age at forty. I used to give a special three pound discount to old age pensioners. There aren't many brothels that offer that kind of service with her very specific rules and practice Cynthia. Payne's operation was indeed like no other older men and practicing women alike felt more comfortable and open than another such establishments Cynthia couldn't believe the type of people who began to join her. She met 'em peas from parliament who loved nothing more than getting tied up. Rough hewn businessmen who wanted to express their more feminine side and buttoned up housewives who likes to try more domination focused practices on for size. And then there was Robert Mitchell. Smith, a former member of the Royal Air Force as a squadron leader and pilot instructor Smith was the prototypical example of the type of British man who would never be caught at such an event happily married for years. He deeply loved his wife and never strayed. He did his public service with staunch commitment and was a leader of men. But in his later years after his wife passed away a long repressed side of Smith emerged for all his life. Smith had harbored a secret he was bisexual and curious about the lifestyle of crossdressing yet. He had never had a safe space to explore this side of himself until Cran Morehouse came into his life. During those peak years of operation in the mid nineteen seventies Smith. Th- became one of cynthia's most devoted clients and closest friends allowed to finally be himself. Smith broke free of the expectations. He had lived up to for so long and he claimed a youthful vitality returned to his remaining years. He told pains biographer Bailey that he owed it all to Cynthia Payne, the two became very close perhaps the closest Cynthia Payne ever came to a proper relationship. Smith even lived for long periods of time alongside her in Cran more it was their sanctuary. But perhaps the most surprising visitor in cynthia's is was someone much closer to home her father Hamilton after years of frigid communication cynthia's aging father began to thaw in his elder years. She knew he was lonely, and he knew her line of work Hamilton opened himself. Up to his daughter and asked for her help soon enough. He was a regular attendee at his daughter's events having his horizons broadened in every sense of the word Cynthia believed that she made him happy in the waning years of his life. She told biographer Bailey that quote, the two of us became as close as we ever could be. At the end of every party, Cynthia collected. The luncheon vouchers from her sex workers and paid them from the collected pool of money. She gathered through the evening clients, left, well-fed satisfied and most importantly to Cynthia happy. She began to see this as her purpose in work and life, and as evidenced by the lack of complaints from attendees and neighbors alike. No one was being harmed here Cynthia held parties. Just like this for most of the nineteen seventies. They reached their peak once she purchased the Cran Morehouse around nineteen seventy five for three years all seemed well in her world, but just outside of her perception something had gone wrong, spurred on by the anonymous tip superintendent Searle's curiosity got the better of him and on September fifteenth nine. One thousand nine hundred seventy eight he ordered a squad car over to amble side avenue to observe the comings and goings from Cran Morehouse. It was time to determine if this forty six year old woman had truly been fooling the metropolitan police department the stakeout for Cynthia Payne began in earnest. Coming up. We'll follow the twelve days of police observation that would lead to the downfall of Cynthia. Payne's brothel and to the start of a national scandal that divided public opinion for years to come now. Back to the story. It was September fifteenth nineteen seventy eight and the clock had just past noon. A few officers sat in their unmarked car disguised in street. Clothes keeping a keanae on Cynthia. Payne's home superintendent Searle's instructions were clear, they were not to interfere or reveal themselves in any case. They weren't to question. The neighbors they weren't of course, to knock on the door themselves after all the metropolitan police would lose face if they admitted to letting an unauthorized brothel exist in the neighborhood, they were sworn to control so for now they were here to observe that was going to be their weapon of choice patients the stakeout would last for twelve days each morning. The officers arrived at the same time long before anyone was out on the streets and each day as the daily. Traffic passed by and the neighborhood came to life. They kept their eyes locked on the Cran more front door any person who came in or out was counted. They quickly became familiar with the figure of Cynthia Payne herself matronly in garb a bit short in stature and with a fluff of Brown hair on her head in and out in and out. The officers dutifully noted each figure growing more concerned and more surprised they noticed that these guests were quite well dressed, and well mannered these didn't appear a stereotypical John's or sex workers these just looked like everyday people. But after twelve days, it was clear something was going on inside that house over that time period. Fifty women had crossed the threshold of Cran Morehouse and nearly two. Hundred and fifty men not even the most successful. Businesswoman. Could have that many business meetings, but still two weeks deep the officers had no real proof or solid evidence. They could bring back to Searle's they couldn't fail him. Especially now that they were certain this woman was hiding nefarious activity in plain sight, but just as hope was waning something caught there. I a woman had just exited the house from around back. She was carrying a few bags of trash taking them to the bins out front. And then it struck the officers that wasn't a woman. It was a man dressed in clothes traditionally reserved for women, although they didn't know it yet that was air force squadron leader, Robert Mitchell Smith. When Smith returned inside the officers took their chance, they ran to the bins and search through the trash of Cran Morehouse little did they know that above them from her second story window Cynthia Payne watched this all play out with a slight smile on her face. Sure, she knew they were most likely police, but they wouldn't find anything all potentially incriminating material from condoms to broken sex toys to photographs and film reels were never thrown out in the main trash, Cynthia burned all of that down below in the boiler room. So let them search. She was careful woman, and in her mind, she was doing nothing wrong. But the police weren't going to let go of this so easily what had been thrown out was a huge quantity of empty bottles of alcohol. They dock. Commended the refuse and return to Searle's for the superintendent. This was proof enough that the woman inside was throwing parties and based off of the initial tip and their sighting of Robert Mitchell Smith, they were reasonably certain that these parties were not the type sanctioned under the law. In mid September, nineteen seventy eight Searle's made the call and issued a search warrant they would raid Cran Morehouse and put an end to this woman's business. But they had to wait for the right moment. They couldn't just bust in on any afternoon. So Searle's continued observation of the property on a day when an unusually large number of people entered cynthia's home, the police would strike that day finally arrived almost three months later on December sixth nineteen seventy eight after nearly nine weeks of observation the metropolitan police got their chance by late afternoon. The waiting officers observed over fifty different men. Enter Cran more Searle's decision came down the line today was the day officers approached the house and knocked Cynthia Payne ask. Who it was? And the arresting sergeant told her that he had a warrant to search the premises Cynthia opened the door, but it was still closed on the security chain as soon as Cynthia saw it was the police she slammed the door shut the constable. And sergeant at the lead of the raid took this as a sign of resistance. So they bashed into the door and broke it down. The police saw everything one group of half-naked clients sitting in the lounge one of the scheduled live sex shows had just ended the sex workers were caught dumbstruck by the cops others stood lined up on the stairs. Unsure whether to flee or submit to their fate upstairs, the sound of the private activities slowly died out as they realized something was happening. The police bounded upstairs and entered the closed rooms finding a coupling in each one. However, the mood was almost indignant. In fact, one particular client refused to stop having sex. The police were caught off guard by their attitudes Cynthia Payne truly was the Madam of a house of sin. The police kept everyone wrangled inside they collected the names of as many as they could find compiling a list that would soon. Become the subject of front page gossip they discovered lubricants condoms and a plethora of sex toys, one officer, confronted Cynthia upon finding a particular device, she recalled the scene to her biographer Bailey with a laugh the officer asked what is this Cynthia replied, you're a man, you know, what it is the police seized cynthia's, massive vouchers. She simply told them. They're my luncheon vouchers there for my gentlemen to satisfy their appetites. As the raid came to a close and the attendees were rounded up to be brought to the station. Neighbors poured out of their homes surprised to see the cycling colors of police lights, flashing in the evening sky. They were even more surprised to see Cynthia Payne escorted out by the police. But now the door to Cran Morehouse had been busted open. You could step inside past the busted door, you could look around and see toppled party glasses and a sea of officers and half naked partygoers. Finally, you might enter the homie kitchen where a tea kettle boiled for a round of evening drinks. That would never arrive. If you took a moment to pour yourself a glass, your eyes might then fall on the sign that Cynthia kept on her wall as some might keep a bible verse or an old folks saying the sign read. My house is clean enough to be healthy and dirty enough to be happy. Thanks for listening to not guilty. We'll be back Thursday with our next episode on Cynthia Payne will cover the two criminal trials that would consume the next decade of her life and the public gossip firestorm that followed in their wake we'll see how cynthia's defense team tried to prove her a hero of the public and how the prosecution attempted to destroy her claims of morality as her celebrity grew across all of Britain pains trials lead to a full-scale reconsideration of the laws regarding the sex work industry and revealed just how behind the times the authorities had become you can find more episodes of not guilty as well as all of park casts other shows on Spotify or your favorite podcast directory. Several of you have asked how to help us if you enjoy the show the best way to help us is to leave a five star review. And don't forget to follow us on Facebook and Instagram at park. Cast and Twitter at par cast network. In the meantime, based on the evidence, presented decide for yourself was Cynthia. Payne's business truly a threat to public health and societal morality and will the jury agree with you. Find out next week not guilty was created. By max Cutler is a production of Cutler media, and is part of the podcast network. It is produced by max and Ron Cutler sound design by Paul Liebskind with production assistance by Ron Shapiro. Additional production assistance by Carly Madden. And Maggie admire not guilty is written by Jack. Ben tell I'm Vanessa Richardson.
WWHL @ Home: Cynthia Bailey & Bob Harper
"Hey guys let's be honest. I think everybody could use a trip right now. So i was pleasantly surprised when i found the virgo app. I love virgo vacation rental site that has vacation homes anywhere. You want to go. And it's super easy to find the perfect one for your friends and family. You should check out the virgo. Whatever kind of vacation your family and loved ones need. They'll have the perfect place that's virgo. Vr b. o. dot com. You're together. Awaits thursdays ted danson and holly hunter star in a hilarious new comedy from creators. Tina fey and robert lock mr mayor. Please don't try to speak spanish again. Slovak wall parallel means dog and mr mayor thursdays on nbc. Welcome to the bravo clubhouse for the podcast edition of watch what happens. Live with me. andy cohen. He's among the top fitness dudes and her entire parties. saw what kenya's nudes. It's what's what happens. Live with cynthia. Bailey and bob harper. Now welcome to watch what happens live. I'm your host. Andy cohen so glad. Tonight's guests joining me and i. I didn't even have to protest. President president-elect biden was coming to lure year. she says she's been through the peaks and the valleys now. She's had a hills from the real housewives of atlanta. Please welcome cynthia bailey. I cynthia. Hi andy looking. Beautiful and my next guest is a fitness and wellness expert. So maybe you can tell us the nutritional benefits of cynthia's plastic grapes. It's trainer bob harper. Hey bob great to see you. I'm glad you have a cocktail. And cynthia baba's cast in white as an image to your party right bob i i love it a little bit like biden into all hope i look a little younger than biden. Best young version. Yeah when i saw the episode like the white party. I thought okay if i was going to this party what would i wear and so i pulled this outfit together and it was like all right. Let's go cynthia. I wanna get into tonight's episode. Bob i know you were very touched by what porsche had to say about her. Dad tonight right yeah. There was that moment that she talked about The kissing that the her sister got every every night. Porsche did not get that from her father and the way that she just cried immediately just it broke my heart because you know we're all looking for the love of our father right and mother so it really touched me cynthia. This was the number one question for you. Jameel ninety nine said. Cynthia posted that our wedding would follow all safety precautions. And then posted a ton of pictures without mass. So which was it. And how do you defend holding a large indoor event in the middle of a pandemic. We did everything on our end to ensure everyone's safety from mass shields temperature. Checks had a kobe nineteen specialists specialists. Coming sprayed place so with that sad. What happened was the only time people were allowed to take their mask. Off was to eat or drink. So it's a wedding so that happened and then a lot of people actually wanted to take pictures with their mask off because you know when you take it brings like oh can i take the mask off. So i wasn't even thinking of now. All the pictures are going to have the mask because you get sick after the wedding. No thank you genius. No-one tested positive as a result of being at our wedding Good well there. You go Cynthia theresa w texted wants to know you think. Kenya would have freaked out if it was anyone from butler toyota showing her nude at public. That like that or do you think. Kenya wanted people to see it. Well it was a damn sexy new. I mean if it was going to be shown to the world With that said. I was surprised that can you gave a new to any of us to be honest. You know what i'm saying. Just you know. She's she's more kind of private about stuff like that. What what's going on with kenya and la toya do you think. What's your take their honestly. I feel like kenya. County got in kind of a. I don't want to see a dark place. You know last year especially with everything that was going on with the divorce in the pens making everything and i felt like you know for her latorre was just kinda like a breath of fresh air for her like someone for her to have fun with You know they were cannon similar places at the time. Kenya you know. Look like she's definitely leading toward divorced. I don't know what's happening now but at that time. That's what it was looking like end. Obviously you guys will see that. Letoya is kind of all over the place with her relationship. She's trying to figure it out as well. Bob you wanted to say something. Well i was just going to say because if you're going to send a nude out was a really good one. I want the attention. The attention and i feel like kenya i. I'm fine if if someone wants to give me attention. Letoya wants to give me that attention. I'm going to take it. You know that was during twenty twenty one. All bets are off. You can do whatever you want. Yeah right. I want to present you with scenarios that the land ladies are facing and i want your take if you were in there shoes. Tell me what you would do. What would you do if your partner was spying on you with security cameras in your home. I would give him a show honey. I'm like if you wanna fly on me. I'm gonna give you something to watch Cynthia was mary adamant about the significance of her ten. Ten twenty wedding date is a specific wedding. Date that important. Do you think i think. When you're the bride whatever's important to you is what's important i i was going to get married and twenty twenty and i decided you know what it's not the year for us to do. We're going to hold off. But i think it's all about what the bride and groom wants that time. How would you react if you graciously. Welcome to brand new friend into your home and she immediately shaded your cold naples. I'd have to throw state right back at her. Like you want to start on my meatballs. I'm going to start on something you you've got going on right now. How would you handle it if it in law was living with you and butting heads with your partner i'd be like you know grandma you gotta just like step off a little bit because This is my partner and you're going to have to love both of us because they this is not changing what you do a frenemy question. The authenticity of your activism. I think that's what frenemies do right. They're always gonna look for. Just like a little chink in the armor. And i would just take with a grain of salt. Be like what. I'm doing my part to help the greater good. And if you got some some some stuff to say you know all right very good well thank you very much bob on this show. We only tend to talk about fitness as it pertains to fitness whole. Drink inside my mouth. So let's consult with an actual fitness expert while we have time for. Let's get physical. We have questions. please help okay. If i want to get a six pack by summer what do i do. Where do i start a while. You gotta stop right. I mean like you got to think about single thing that you're putting in your mouth okay. Okay take on expensive home gym equipment like spinning bikes and treadmills worth the investment. You know. I think that if you've got the money for you and you got the space for it that's great. I'm i'm working with a a new fitness app called neo you and it's like all these great workouts that you can do without any equipment at all and you can do it at home. It's all at home with it Workout sets great my trainer. Stan is on neo. You what is one thing you can do for five minutes every day. To make a healthier you meditate. How much wine is too much wine to be consumed during the pandemic. You know what i say. All bets are off when it comes to wind in the pandemic anything through the day. Are you pro or anti juice. Cleanse completely anti juice cleanse. I mean you gotta eat food. Anyway you're going to lose off that juice cleanse you're going to gain it back when you have that first day of real food is sex really that much of a workout. The way i do it. I knew what i love you. Okay last. what's a simple thing i could do. In my daily life to help prevent a heart attack. I think the daily thing you can do the same thing as meditate and also really watch your stress levels bring that stress level down at any cost all right. Thanks so much. Let's go to the virtual audience. Carly what's your question for. Cynthia hi cynthia you in so p iq the question for you sure doesn't surprise the engagement. Really make up for the fact. That kenya almost ruined your proposal. Are you just saying that. So she can stop feeling bad about it. It's a start it's a it's a great star honestly We move past it. It is what it is. But i was very touched that she really went out of her way to throw me this surprise engagement because once i have moved on. I really didn't expect anything else. Alright alex you're up with a question for bob. Alex with think would be the worst personal training clients. How gosh well. I will say that. When i was watching a cynthia and kenya Yoga and really no really giving their best effort. I was like come on. And i love the yoga. Like i'm gonna walk out. I'd be like i'm not walking out ob okay. Cynthia heather gaze gaze said looking back on these last few episodes. Can you see mike. Malary's point about the wedding and marriage being more important than the ceremony. Of course yes. I could always see. Mike's point i just wanted to try to figure out if we could do it. Do the wedding that i wanted. Mvp kobe nineteen conscious. I've been married on the show before. I've had a big wedding before you've been married in your life before not just on the show right on the show but while the show kinda came up so i just want to say it relied life on the show right now at the end of the day Made very clear that. I'm pretty excited about being with mike hill and excitement throughout well. The most intense competition at your engagement party was either about who was making it into your bridal party or who was going to win that basketball game. Todd was watching it the table. So i wanna draft your fantasy bridal party from the full roster of housewives who would do a better job getting everyone on the dance floor porsche or lease arena. Lisa renner would you rather have keeping the groomsmen company. Sonia or marlow. Marlow no question. Who would make a better efficient karen or giselle mccarron. Who would you rather have show up to put on a surprise performance. Luan or kim zolciak girl who would you entrust with holding onto my kills. Ring carcelle ramona garcia. Who would you enlist to kick out wedding crashers theresa or liam theresa who would flan a better bachelorette party yvonne or candy candy can throw a hell of a bachelorette party. I'm gonna say what candy very good there's your fantasy bridesmaids squad. Bob blake. Oh wants to know your take on. Intermittent fasting is it actually healthy. Is it an excuse not to eat. I think is a really great diet. I mean because you should be eating when you're hungry and not eating because a clock tells you to so it's like when you do intermittent fasting. You have a certain time that you're aiding but you have to make sure that you are still making wise decisions. A lot of people that do i think. Okay i just eat. Whatever i want when it's time to eight and i'm like that is not the point of intermittent fasting. Magazi- texted cynthia. Be honest did you. Actually think biden was going to be at the party. How much do you think. Candy actually has on everything. I was at the party and still was looking for biden like i drove my crazy. I just thought like. I knew this was a big election. Who's got do got to do so at come into an abandoned through brand. I take did not seem farfetched. And i was very excited to meet him and i still expect and hope vase. I love it. Wow by the way. I mean you all you ladies help. Turn georgia blue. I gotta tell you it's really. It's really president. We're looking early and yet gave so much credit to stacey abrams. Let me tell you the. I hate to say. The best thing that ever happened was for her to win. Because you don't piss off black woman there you said cynthia bailey. Cynthia's had so many crazy experiences on this show and there's only one moment that could top them. All meeting president elect joe biden. Come on out joe biden. Just kidding okay. But it's time to play. Your guess is as good as mine. I'm going to present you both with situations. That may have happened when cynthia was here. Bob guests if they happened. Cynthia confirmed tonight. Bob did cynthia. Once struck the runway and the clubhouse while making a random object like baby a baby stroller look sexy absolutely. Yeah she did club. Turtle mona crap on the carpet while cynthia was on. Yes no. That was with kim rich or did cynthia wants pluck my eyebrows for a game entitled better plock next time. Yes no. that was gloria during a game of dealbreakers. Cynthia admits she was open to dating a man that had served time in prison. It's got to be a yes now. it is a yes. She was on his tiffany and she said that was scindia. Once on the show with the legendary. Reverend al sharpton no yes she was. She's sharing with sandra bernhardt. No yes she did. Did we want you cynthia bottle of window cleaner. No yes. i did. Take a selfie with cynthia's behind. No yes no i didn't. I did it with kim kardashian. Thank you much for playing cynthia. Dale j what s-. No if you were at all pissed that todd was watching a basketball game during your engagement party. That really pissed him wasn't there. I thought he was going to show up even after you knew it was an engagement party biden owes me apartments. That's really part. I spent like i was so excited. I was more excited than anyone. I thought it was so cool that he was coming to atlanta. And we were like. We've got all dolled up like it took me like five places. Mike stutz like it was amazing. Bob did you think biden wisconsin. I will say that for a split. Second i was like wait is buying shown up. That would have been so great. I would have been really like at my keep and see where he was that day. Because i was like wait a minute. 'cause we had to be on time and he was like museum like cleveland of whatever right now you know. He has no wait so he could in time for the lake. We have worked it all out. We were we just couldn't let it go. This may not come as a surprise but my family is ready to get out of the house. And i mean out mine too so i was pleasantly surprised when i found the verb app. It's a vacation rental site that has vacation homes anywhere. You wanna go and super easy to find the perfect one for the whole family. I knew i wanted to escape the cold and found the perfect beach house. That was warm but still driveable has a massive kitchen pool and so many other amenities that gives us a chance to really unwind and relax. That's amazing. I'm gonna check it out because i know you can find pretty much anything on there for whatever you need and i'm ready to take a trip. You should check out the virgo app. Whatever kind of vacation your family needs. They'll have the perfect place. That's verbal v. r. b. o. Dot com you're together awaits all right. We are back cynthia. Bailey bob harper. We we got a question. Cynthia wanting to know if it was his awkward as it seemed when porsche arrived during kenya's speech Awkward you know because kenya was like really into her moment. And you know just kinda came out of nowhere. I wasn't even sure she's gonna show but that point so yeah. It was a little cynthia. Are hoa off twirl. Wants to know if you've talked to peter since your marriage and since you're suing him at the moment actually his dad recently passed and i reached out to him and to his mom and two daughters. That i'm close to as well so we did speak. I wanted to obviously send my condolences. Did you speak about the lawsuit. I did tell him that we can talk about it when it was a more appropriate time. It just wasn't obviously the time to really get into it. Yes bob. Michelle g wants to know the worst or weirdest excuse. The client has given you to not work out being hungover. I think is one of the worst ones. Because whenever i hear that a client has hung over that's when i worked them out the hardest who i bet you your that kinda guy aren't you. I am back. Taylor be wants to know bother. If there's one thing none of us should put in our mouths what is it certificates. What should we not unin our mouths bob. You know. i'm not a big dairy eater. How that guy. I mean a boring boring answer. Well i mean. I would say sugar but now there's so many things i could say is their dog in the back. Yes so cute. Is there anything you wouldn't put in your mouth. Marcus marcus g are you a goldstar gave up. I m all star game cynthia. Now that means that he's not been with a woman fully intercourse with a woman. I'm a gold star gay as well. Oh wow i didn't know that person. I didn't know what was called. So you got you know cynthia. You and i are still getting to know each other as you like to tell you again amount over a decade at this wrong we know each other. Andy can i say one thing about the stargate thing. Yeah okay it's like it's when my straight friends when they find that out they're like well. How do you know of you haven't tried it. And i'm like well you know i talked to my male friends. I'm like have you ever slept with a guy and they're like same right. Yes okay. cynthia. Marcus g wants to know if you honestly think if kenya attended porsches surprise party that she would have behaved herself or do you think she would have found a way to stir up some trouble. I one hundred percent feel like she would have behaved yourself. It just was not the time or the place for any nonsense. It was as no way that she can do anything but just be you know respectful like we were like i mean there was a lot of opportunities at night to prochet but everybody kind of shade at a minimum like honestly. Because it just wasn't time and there you go. Okay i want to thank cynthia and bob for more click around bravo. Tv dot com was. Thanks guys thanks. For listening to the podcast. Everybody hope you enjoyed the show. Remember new episodes. Go live monday through friday at four. Pm eastern time. Make sure your subscribe to have a great rest of your want breakfast is. let's go. I'm leaving for mcdonald's and five seconds the breakfast impede meal. It's only at mcdonald's where there's meal for every morning and nothing says morning like a classic sausage mcmuffin with egg right. Now get this all time favorite for just two bucks on the one. Two three dollar menu price and participation may vary cannot be combined with any other offer or combo meal vodka.
Cynthia Bailey & Roxane Gay
"Welcome to the Bravo. Clubhouse for the podcast division of watch. What happens live with me? Andy cohen. She's ready for some housewives dish in her fight against the even upset the coif fish. It's watch. What happens? I was Cynthia Bailey and Roxane gay now. On your host. Andy Cohen live in the Bravo clubhouse, wishing everyone happy Easter. But especially all the housewives out there who like an Easter egg often heavily painted and a little fragile say to lake Bailey resident and has take show founder real house. I'm Cynthia Bailey. I. That's gust is considered a leading feminist voice who wears many hats, including professor multi New York Times bestselling author of books like bad feminist and mega housewives superfan or new podcast here to slay debut Tuesday. Welcome for the first time in the clubhouse Roxane gay Iraq. To say verd- what a fan you are. And I'm fan very excited to have you here. I'm excited to be here. Hiring safe to say that you're our first visiting Yale. Professor who's come from Yale to. Live. The Easter bunny usually brings chocolate eggs in marshmallow chicks. There's another famous bunny who's basket is overflowing with bad energy watch. I brought the money. So I think what I should do is give it to you. Over it's the iconic Beverly Hills body. Body. I want to get started. You know, Roxanne one of the things that I enjoy about. You is that you are a real die hard feminist who loves Bravo. And I wonder how you would counter Gloria Steinem argument that the real housewives are just kind of the worst for women. I just really disagree, and I really respect Gloria. But that said, I think that the real housewives franchises allow women to be their true selves. And we see the mess, and we see mazing friendships and everything in between. And when women are allowed to be there Fulla cells. That's the most feminist thing. We can do. Wow. Toby before the show you ran into glorious outta debate with her about last week. Absolutely. A couple of weeks ago. I was doing an event a fundraiser. And she happened to be one of the guests. And we had a talk about it because I love the house. Wow. And love. Yes. I do. We'll roxanne. We have big surprise few later in the show. We're gonna have three mystery. Bravo callers calling in just for you portion grace star reunion with a prayer. And it was absolutely incredible. It was a great way to close out the season watch. What do we want to have a little rare something for PJ? Lord, men, all the hearts of these women, and Andy who are holding hands at this moment. These women do have love in their hearts, whether it's revealed today or shown today are not and let my daughter learned from women like these let PJ strong and healthy in the name of Jesus. I pray. Amen. I love how we need it. We need it God. And all the prayer. We could get a yes. Tonight. You said you would you said you would consider moving to LA for Mike, which means that there could be a wedding sooner than we thought. Maybe I'd have some questions for you about how that would go down if you did marry Mike would it be an extravagant wedding? Like you had with Peter. Or would it be lower key? I was something small because I've been I've had a wedding before Mike has been married before each and every had a wedding. So he actually wants to wedding have you discussed with Mike where you would have the wedding. Like what city we have talked about doing a destination wedding. A really would you? Let your mom and sister. Mallory overseas GARRETT'S together. Hit it from you last spine. Maybe not, but they buy it. Peter be invited to the wedding. Probably not. After you're married. Would you ever go into business with Mike like you did with Peter? I would I would you know, what a lot of great things came out of, you know, Peter doing business to three outfit changes like Eva. You know, what I would definitely have one maybe two. But but I would keep it pretty simple. Thank you, very much the Cynthia drug sand came through your questions, but before we get to those. Here's what three things I'm obsessed with tonight. I the scariest thing you would find in most closets might involve an ugly sweater or perhaps a mothballs. But here's what what the drama in Nina's closet resulted in nothing short of sweaty ball of Yuri tonight. We got here. Everybody's side watch. I wanna talk about the closet did something happen with your belt t-shirt and into. Him. The guy got choked up screen yet. When he did. Did he go to? About that too. Good. When she pulled the camera guy by his shirt security, grabbed me that he grabs her after she choked the produce. You know, I felt a hand on my back and my bell came off. And I went war. And then I saw her choking up the produce. I wasn't even behind you. I felt the show up and my dad came up. Roxanne? What was your reaction to this conversation? I just the play by play every week. I'm just like, wow, y'all really pay attention to your mess. It was amazing amazing. But Meany just seems deeply unhappy and angry and something's wrong beyond. Like, ha ha this is a fun show wrong. And I mostly was thinking about that anything that was a headline to you in that conversation. Well, I mean, I thought Porsche data great job of breaking it down. I mean hurt portion candy went into the closet first. So they got further than ever made it, and I've been in there before, but that particular night, I didn't get very far. Yes. Therefore, everything kind of well second on tonight's dramatic conclusion of the Atlanta reunion Cynthia seemed to be saying by to the wig. She was closest to in the group. Take a look at Cynthia going in on looking back on it. Yes. I could have said when you need to ask you to come to my party. She said she's not coming at word. They're saying. Then let us fall. Say look like the tree I don't give a damn what it look like I'm telling you leaguer. Leaguer. My partner partners. Come on somebody to my crazy fish. You actually pretty much, but French. Week. All this other stuff. What are you get out of your friendship? She gets out of her friends housing. Okay. Here's what go to WWAFL dot TV and tell us who's side are you on Cynthia or knee anything that didn't get said here. I mean, it looked fishy from the show. Crazy. Absolutely. I can understand why she was upset about what it looked like I tried to explain we actually had a seen after the whole event. And we hugged it out. We went out we hung out this happened in October hung out with knee a lot, right? I mean, you shower together, here's the thing. And this is what this is why I'm good where I'm at right now, regardless of what you see or what you read what caption, whatever, which you have seen says, we have been friends me can be beat nothing, but completely loyal integrate Prentice women for years. So even if we had a moment or she didn't like it, or whatever, you know, not giving me an opportunity to try to explain it or whatever. Okay. That's fine. But that does not cancel out of this. Not council all the years that I have been a great frame this one thing we're going to this is it over this once stupid petty incident. Okay. Looks like you guys are on cynthia's side firmly. Give. Give. If you on Twitter. No, she is not shy about firing off for opinions about Bravo shows which of her opinions like a real house size face work have aged well in which of them like Lou, Lou, Ann Kev ratio. Where a strictly limited engagement. Here's let's find out with that. Sweet. Some of your vintage Bravo tweets as I read them back you either doubled down. Okay. Or if you're still standing behind it or distance yourself? Okay. You said in twenty seventeen this was last year this real outside reunion while while while and Porsche is not smart. My goodness. Do you feel Porsche is not smart? I think she's come a long way. Okay. You tweeted in twenty seventeen jacks is a sociopath. I stand by that stand by that. Tweeted and twenty seventeen Shep is a serial killer. Charm. Yes. Yes. Okay. In twenty eleven you tweeted the outsides in Beverly Hills. Just make me sad their faces are so stretch. They are they they are. Okay. Twenty seventeen you tweeted about banner bone bruise? Katie's wedding. Dress is not good. Yes. Okay. In twenty nineteen this year. You said they are talking about having kids terrifying. But I would watch Vander pump babies. I sure would you would. Okay. Twenty nineteen you said to arri. It's hair is in such a crisis. This. Yes. She crisis twenty nineteen Vander from rules sheet is so thirsty for relationship. Who is she kidding? With this nonsense about wanting to be single. Oh, yeah. I. Scabby thousand percent. Thank you. That's funny. Have you say what he said he's spoken to Neeson's reunion, by the way, I'm not you've not no she actually sent me a text maybe a couple of weeks ago, but wasn't at night. So I didn't. Cynthia Sam K wants to know your reaction to Greg saying online that he didn't mean you're like a sister to him after all I didn't see that. He said that. Yes. Of course, I saw it. Because everyone showed it to me. I was a little disappointed and sad. Because I thought it was very kind of into it at the reunion. So took it back. Megi texted Roxanne? I know you're Vanderbilt rules fan is sucking dick for a private jet LA feminist behavior. I mean, new it's not feminists behavior, but have you traveled coach lately. Donnas K Cynthia. What is Peter think about your relationship with my kill? I don't know. I mean, I'm for him. He's happy for me. We we've moved on Roxanne alley de once knew who you would rather bring back to Beverly Hills, Kim Richards or brandy Glenville. Oh, brandy Glanville. Okay. Too. Renee from Miami. Hey, Renee, what your question. Hi, Andy, happy Easter. My question is. Cynthia what is your mom and sisters opinion about might? And do they think you're moving too fast? My sister, and my mom actually, really love Mike like most of my friends and family do and you know, I'm fifty two. So I don't think I can move to. I can't move fast enough girls in from chattanooga's question for Roxane gay. What's your question tryst in? Hi, my question for rock fan is what is your real housewives tagline? Oh, that's good. I real house. Tau glide is very gay every day. The idea of you and Gloria Steinem running into each other house is I've just say, you know, the housewives connects all of us. The gift that keeps on giving. Let's let us from Texas. Hey, Alexis what your question high anti Iraq? San y'all. I have my questions for Cynthia. I look great tonight, by the way, you welcome. My question is Cynthia Hugh mess Marlow concerning these behavior her instigating it or kind of condoning it. I felt like my issue with Ninni was my issue with ni and are really honestly went into the reunion Bill in like we could kind of get past it like I just was really really trying to explain way out of it. But she just wasn't really hearing it and Marlow wasn't really healthy are right guys Cynthia was caught in a controversial hot Mike moment tonight. But Ken Roxanne identified some of her favourite controversial people solely based on audio Roxanne. This is it I have three mega mystery. Bravo callers with their voices disguised on the line. You have ninety seconds to ask them. Yes. Or no questions to ide- all three before the time runs out. Okay. Caller, number one. Are you there? Okay, roxanne. I'm starting the clock go. Yes. Or no questions. Are you a housewife? Do you live on the east coast? Are you Bethany Franko? No. Okay. Are you are you a New York housewife? No. Are you at Atlanta housewife? Okay. Start Cussing Porsche. No. Are you Niimi? No. Pedra? Else? Candy. Are you candy? Roxanne? What do you think of candy, candy is awesome? She is the Queen of the hustle. Always got something going on. I'm just I take notes from her about how to run a business. All right. For she ate a candy gams. All right next house. That's bravo. Caller. Are you there? Caller you. Yeah. Yeah. Say. Let's start the puck. Are you a housewife? Are you on the west coast? Do you have a clothing line? No. Do you have any sort of retail enterprise? Is it Kyle? Fellow with with with with Kris Jenner. I. Yeah. And teddy is here. Goodness. What how are you feeling about? The goodbye Kyle thing this season. Oh my God. I think it's heartbreaking. I think so much in Beverly Hills is just not right. And I feel so bad for L VP because she's clearly morning. But this dog thing has been drawn out quite to on Kyle take you very much bag is happy. Twenty three seconds. We're gonna do this super fast. Go are you a housewife? Are you on vendor pump rules? No. Are you on below deck? Is it Kate? Yeah. No, no. Oh, I have no idea. Are you a stew? Please identify yourself captain. Sandy. Thank you. Playing wanna take a quick call Taylor from New Jersey with the question for Ruxandra? What's your question Taylor hyrax fan? I just wanted to know. Which would you say best embodies feminism? Oh, I'm gonna go with candy. Yes. Cynthia Justin P E mail. Did you do anything with the other ladies after you've finished filming the reunion this year? No. But I did a lot with my. Yes. Ruction? You have a running list of nemesis is if that's the plural. Read on the beach wants to know who would your housewives nemesis speed, you think oh that all the galaxy? Teddy Mellencamp, really. Okay. Cynthia Laurie beyond our walkabout. Why didn't you just tell me that you had originally invited Kenya? Because when Kenya said she wasn't coming. I just thought you know, what this is like a happy set. I was like, okay, great. I don't even have to like even bring it bring it up because I kinda felt like low key to be honest. Even if I had said that even invited her it would just be weird. I just was like only wanna go there. Like, the good news is I don't bring it up now. And then it all backfire. It's time for my moslo today goes to this amazing woman who was spotted at the Utah Jazz game last night with this incredible et of air. Also, my hair looked after surviving seasons. Atlanta reunion tonight. You goes to former Republican congressman Aaron schock who had a long anti-gay voting record, including supporting a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage because photo surface last week that appear to be him making out with a guy at Coachella. Now. I'm a few days later on this story because I'm still processing it. I'll tell you what Mr. shock if that really is you in the photo. I'll give up my right to marry as soon as you give up your rights to pop a Molly and get so Enzi with the juiced up muscle Queen at Coachella that you both lose your pedaza flower, crowns. The body. Hey, everybody, we are back with Cynthia and Roxanne gay. So wrecks in. What's the podcast about the podcast? I'm co hosting it with trustee McMillan Cottam, and basically black feminists dot, and we talk about pop culture, we talk about serious things. And we're just gonna have a good old time. You will you talk about. Oh, absolutely talk about the housewives and also HDTV because this. Do you watch? Do you watch house has Potomac? I do I sure do. Okay. Thank you watch everything but Orange County. Okay. All right. Do you watch Mary medicine? Sometimes my parents watch married to medicine. So I have to watch to sort of be able to converse with them. Sway from Florida sway. What your question? Yes. I have a question for Cynthia respect to relationship. But here's the thing. Does she agree with? If you're not married is still contested the best man win. No cut it. I don't get hit on you. Oh. How are you? Not married, but I have ever intention on getting married. You're trying to hit on me. I'm very clatter. Click the door. Let's go to suray from Chicago. Hi cherie. How you doing great? I was hoping you were my friend. Actually, my name is Cherie. But I can't be your friendship. That's awesome. What's your question? Serie? Question is for all you guys? I wanted to know do you think knee highs behind social media? Well, that's an interesting question. Well, I mean, she's pretty vocal to your face too. Right. Do you think she is? Well, I I think she is Boko to my face, but she's very vocal on social media. And there was like a very interesting posts that she posted the be. I don't know kind of been about me. I kind of heard it was. We talked about on the reunion. Yes. Yes. But she said it wasn't about me. I let it go on the flip side. Wouldn't she have just said it was about you? I would think so. Right. I would've totally would expect it to be like look. I mean, I called say, hey, just tell me is this about me you called her when she posted it. Yeah. I called her. I didn't I don't know to social media to like address. Hanker? I post is it me is it me. Right. It wasn't. So I mean when she said it wasn't so good with Elizabeth from North Carolina. Elizabeth what your question? Hey, how you doing? Our you great hiking indigo on since. We're not on air. You. Remember, the time that you told me it was okay? If I've jet defied you. Yes. Okay. I gotta do it right now. Okay. I just saw a picture of you sporting Jesus hair, which was okay. But Andy Cohen, I knew there was something hot underneath that suit. That was the six years period test. I've seen in a long time throwback picture posted the. Andy blow that picture and put it in there in the at the clubhouse code that. Look good daddy. I mean. Fashion. Enjoy you just don't even know. Always count on. You Elizabeth in North Carolina. Daddy, you better. Hurry up and believe it. Okay. Daddy. What do you have a question where was? I've got a question. But by the way, I it office said you like to hang out on the beach and the live on the Outer Banks, North Carolina. You can put this. Okay. You just let me know. All right. Okay. I will let you know. Let me defy. You question is for. I I'm a struggling writer. I guess, you know, I've written something. So I think it's pretty good. What would I do? Who would? I see where's the next step? The next step is to try and find an agent. And so if you Google how to find an agent, it's totally gonna hook you up. Because like, I mean, I wish I could tell you something more than that. But an agents really gonna help you to sell your project to a publisher and then for her to kind of submit her project to multiple age L absolutely make a hundred copies of this thing. And just and does she need to register it or any or she sends it out when you write something you oughta medically have copyright you. Don't people think you have to do something formal? But if you actually really want formal crop copyright, you just put it in an envelope mail it to yourself and don't open the envelope. Really works. Really what really works. Yeah. Okay. That's good. There you go Elizabeth nine. There you go. Thanks, best of luck. I'm gonna blow up that picture that shift. Okay. It's. Year because I can look at any time. Thank you. Jim a book that you're most proud of. I'm probably most proud of an untamed state because it was my first novel. And I didn't think I could write a novel. And then I did right. What is your next gonna be about? My next book is called how to be heard. And it's about using your voice to create change in. It's a book about writing advice. Well, Roxanne it was lovely to have you. It was lovely to be here Cynthia. It was fantastic to have you wrap it out the season. Oh my God. I wonder if victory dance sorry. Thanks for listening to the podcast everybody. Hope you enjoyed the show. Remember, new episodes? Go live Monday through Friday at four PM eastern time. Make sure you're subscribed. Have a great rest of your night.
Cynthia Payne Pt. 2: Defining Decency
"Due to the graphic nature of this investigation and trial listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of sexuality that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for listeners under thirteen. The quiet of amble side avenue broke open on December sixth nineteen seventy eight and so did one of its biggest secrets that forty six year old Cynthia Payne was running a sex work business out of her home called Cran Morehouse, every few months, fifty or more men would pile into her small two story place, they would pay pain for the privilege of food, drink live sex shows, and in what was soon to be nationally. Infamous a luncheon voucher, and otherwise nearly worthless welfare tool. But in Cran Morehouse that luncheon voucher gained new value as the men exchanged it upstairs for a little alone time with the woman of their choosing in the eyes of the metropolitan police department. This meant that Cynthia Payne was a Madam and she was orchestrating the sale of sex within a full. Fully operational brothel as defined by the sexual offenses act of nineteen fifty six this would catapult Cynthia into the national spotlight and lock her into a legal battle that brought this five Atias woman to the edge of hopelessness. What began in nineteen seventy eight would stretch across an entire decade, and it would force both Cynthia Payne and the British nation to confront their ideals and beliefs in the Justice system. How should we determine a person's guilt? Do we defer to the evidence discovered by police or the verdict reached by jury? And what happens when the evidence and the verdict don't line up. Hi, I'm Vanessa Richardson and this is not guilty. Apar- cast original each week. We look at complicated criminal cases that test the limits of innocent until proven guilty. This week, we're moving into the second half of the story of Cynthia Payne, and her legal battles with the court system of Great Britain, following the charges of operating a brothel in nineteen seventy eight Cynthia Payne, and her defense team would attempt to prove not just her own innocence, but the greater innocence of her sex work practices in general. She refused to go down without a fight and continued to challenge the existing legal framework following her trial in nineteen eighty this created a battle for herself. That would last over the next seven years, kicking off a socio political public debate that would pit sex workers against law enforcement in this case. The court of law and court of public opinion came to a head bringing into question, the entire framework of Britain's sex work laws. At park cast, we're grateful for you. Our listeners you'll now us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach out on Facebook and Instagram at par cast and Twitter at par cast network. And if you enjoy today's episode the best way to help us is to leave a five star review wherever you're listening. It really does help us. We also now have merchandise head to park, cast dot com slash merch. For more information. Due to the slow moving mechanization of the Justice system. It took two years for Cynthia Payne's case to reach trial in nineteen eighty in that year. The British media found a new obsession, the nature of the rhetoric fell perfectly in between politics, culture and scandal, a trifecta for any journalist seeking dramatic story clientele. Sex workers, and even neighbors spoke up on her behalf one of her clients who refused to be named to avoid losing his job claimed that he was an esteemed professor and that many of the other clients held such high powered positions as well. He was attempting to give the parties as sheen of legitimacy. Instead, he ignited gossip across the nation. The names of the clients were caught during the raid on December sixth, nineteen seventy eight had never been released and never would be both the police and the. Judicial system kept it close to the chest, when it became public knowledge that men of high standing were involved, the media machine began to salivate, and so did the citizenry of the country, many wrote letters to the newspapers filled with their own opinions on cynthia's crime and whether or not it was a crime at all. It became the central fixation of the nineteen eighty trial the question of which men attended this event and why it was only Cynthia who was now being charged. Unfortunately, the side effect of this was that many other voices were drowned out one former sex worker from cynthia's Cran Morehouse gave a statement to the observer saying that it was the best job I ever had. I couldn't stand it as a secretary. I work when I like and I keep what I earn if I don't like someone. I don't have to go with them. This anonymous workers still spoke as if. Cran Morehouse was operational. And she wasn't lying, even in the midst of the drama leading up to the nineteen eighty trial Cynthia still saw demand from her clientele. She didn't have parties of the same size anymore, but she kept the house and it services online, even as she faced serious jail time. This was a secret that needed to stay quiet. And as far as amble side avenue could tell it was as quiet as it had ever been again. One of cynthia's neighbors spoke with the observer saying, there was never any noise or trouble, that was always parking space in front of the house. I was amazed to hear that so many people visited it, but in April nineteen eighty Cynthia Payne wasn't going to be able to hide behind closed doors anymore. She would become fully exposed to the public eye, whether she liked it or not, yet, her defense counsel, Geoffrey Robertson, Aleve. This might be a good thing, Cynthia, in person was the best version of Cynthia she wouldn't be some theoretical unseen, brothel keeper anymore. She would be the Cynthia that all her friends, and clients loved, again, the anonymous professor and former client told the observer Cynthia isn't class. Conscious. She's warm friendly irascible excitable. Not the least bit proud loyal to her friends and individualist as forty seven year old Cynthia Payne walked into court on April twenty first nineteen eighty she was going to call on all these attributes and virtues as her defense raged against prosecuting counsel, Donald Farquharson. Their goal was to persuade judge David west Russell of cynthia's innocence. Cynthia faced three charges of controlling sex workers, and the biggie of operating a so-called disorderly house. This is what Farquharson harped on during his opening statement in front of the judge. He claimed that there was simply no denying. The truth here Cynthia Payne was guilty. There were over fifty men in her residence at the time of the raid, some of them, literally caught in the act in one of the four upstairs bedrooms, at Cranborne house, Farquharson, also wheeled out the apparatus from which Cynthia projected her collected sex films in the living room Farquharson, even showed some of the sex toys, and Queant found in the house, hoping to shame Cynthia and her defense into reticence, of course, the centerpiece of the prosecution was outlining. The luncheon vouchers game during the two years of lead up the press had caught glimpses of cynthia's. Brill. And ironic payment method. But the trial was the first true view of cynthia's luncheon voucher system. It was a pop culture sensation newspaper, cartoons and radio talk shows could not get enough. However, as far Kherson outlined with emphasis these luncheon vouchers, were, then given back to pain by the sex workers at the end of each event from their Cynthia would give them a cut of the admission fees, she'd charged at the beginning of the evening, a stencil, a charge just for alcohol food, and the living room shenanigans where no sex work took place, make no mistake, Farquharson, pointedly, told the judge this was a cash business over five hundred sixty pounds had been confiscated from Cynthia on the evening of the raid. There was no way for defense counsel, Geoffrey Robertson to deny any of this occurred. It was thoroughly recorded so Robertson decided to take another route recall this was really a trial about the character of Cynthia Payne, and whether or not she could be legally trusted withholding party like this. In other words. It was time to bring the cultural question to the forefront of the trial. I, he opened by describing the long and arduous road of cynthia's life. Instead of focusing on the ridiculousness of luncheon vouchers, he appealed to a class consciousness. Cynthia was a woman trying to do what she could to survive. She had been exploited. So she decided that she could build a better system, instead of subjecting people, too dangerous and unreliable access to sex Cynthia became an educator, and hostess, it must be admitted Robertson address to the judge that Cynthia Payne, did not live an opulent lifestyle, photographs of Cran, Morehouse, and general knowledge of the stream neighborhoods. Socioeconomic position should prove that Cynthia desired to provide women safe haven from unsafe conditions. If that meant they wanted to party, or if that meant they wanted to act. It as a sex worker and a private setting away from the party. Cynthia did not care all she did was provide shelter food, and drink. No one was obliged to engage in sexual activity. She did not round up or recruit women to the contrary Cynthia Payne was already a member of this community. So what better agent could there be to address its myriad problems with that Robertson made sure to appeal to the public discourse? Where did this myriad of problems come from, after all, from low paid sex workers, and middle aged low income women or were these problems that stemmed from the British government's inefficient and ineffective sex work policies, Cynthia Payne parties were informal affairs? They did not disturb the neighborhood and they did not harm the participants in any way, shape or form. He dismissed the sex toys with a wave of the hand. The police could not hide the fact that no such device was in use during the raid. The toys were a private matter that held no bearing in this trial. With great solemnity, Geoffrey Robertson, said that quote, an endless parade of suburban male respectability beat a path to Cynthia Payne's door yet. He said, not one of the fifty three men caught in the December sixth raid was on trial for any wrongdoing finally Robertson concluded that the Christmas party is over, and she's been left to pick up the tab. It was a powerful conclusion. And it had seemingly won over the courtroom audience, certainly judge David west Russell would follow suit. Geoffrey Robertson, sat back down next to his client, and whispered reassurances in her ear. But then on April twenty third nineteen eighty the judge made his declaration to the three counts of controlling sex workers, and the one of running a disorderly house, Cynthia Payne was guilty. Hayne. The judge continued had chosen her way of life, and that life path had transgressed the law, she would be fined nearly two thousand pounds charged another two thousand for courtroom fees, and finally imprisoned for eighteen months with that it was seemingly all over Cynthia Payne was taken away to Holloway women's prison to serve her sentence. When we return, we'll see that Robertson's defense had not completely failed, Cynthia would get herself out of the fire, only to end up back in the frying pan yet again. Now back to the aftermath of Cynthia Payne's nineteen eighty conviction. From within the halls of power, a growing public outcry was heard the spectator played a role as the media leader and Cynthia Payne's defense a week after the trial's conclusion in early may of nineteen eighty and opinion editor publish the following quote, according to the law, the men committed no offense. And if the other women did they were not charged only Cynthia Payne is regarded as legally culpable, even though she the men and the women were engaged in a joint exercise, but our legislators have not wished the others to be charged precisely in order to avoid the punishment and the publication of the names of the men, whose demand created the supply, and quote the sex work community also came out in Cynthia Paynes corner, Nina Lopez Jones of the English collective. Of prostitutes was even published in the guardian in early may nineteen eighty she wrote that, quote sex workers are fighting not only against illegality, but also against the isolation and Boehner ability, caused by illegality are campaign for the abolition of all laws against sex workers has had such a tremendous impact that last week thirty members of parliament, signed a motion in support of brothel keeper, Cynthia Payne and quote with such noise in the public, the court had to accept Cynthia Payne's appeal on may fifteenth nineteen eighty less than a month after her initial trial. She appeared before Lord Justice Lawton. He was even more stern than judge David west Russell, and open his statements by repeating that punishments against brothel operators had been part of British law for centuries, the sexual offenses. His act of nineteen sixty five was just the latest of many precedent had been set, but ludden conceded, the public outcry must be addressed there appeared to be a great discrepancy between the original trials decision and public opinion. He also spoke out against gossip claiming that he had scoured the list of names from the raid and discovered no one with a law degree as one of the attendants after saving face here. He finally ruled that cynthia's sentence would be reduced from eighteen months to six. And so yet, again, just upon of the legal system Scindia's fortunes, seemed to reverse. She served her time in Holloway and was released on August twentieth nineteen eighty one of her former wealthy clients picked her up outside the prison walls, and a Rolls, Royce surrounded by reporters Cynthia Payne, flash them, all of v for victory, and one might assume for vouchers, there was no denying it now, as her biographer Paul Bailey road in the biography published soon after her release, Cynthia Payne was a national celebrity. She was well, served by the British press most surprisingly by those tabloids that carry titillating pictures of naked girls on one page and high minded leave indicative editors about the increase of vice on another. Over the next six years, the former Monty python comedian, Terry Jones would put together to feature films covering the span of her life with Julie Walters in the lead. There was plenty of cause for Cynthia Payne to celebrate. And she just couldn't resist. She resumed throwing parties at Cran Morehouse and did not turn away those who wanted to work out of her shelter. The festivities continued, and with her newfound fame, Cynthia Payne felt a growing sense of invulnerability after all, she had served her time the police had gotten their pound of flesh. However, even though the vestiges had Cran Morehouse resumed the law wasn't done with Cynthia Payne just yet. Over the course of three avent's from December nineteen eighty five to may nineteen eighty six a police sting operation was taking place, right under her nose. And on may thirtieth Cynthia Payne was arrested once again. Nearly seven years after her first trial. The fifty four year old Cynthia Payne return to court on Thursday, January twenty second nineteen eighty-seven this time, she appeared more somber and reserved before the press in contrast, the press and public were more riled than ever. Everyone wanted a shot of Cynthia for their paper and everyone wanted a spot inside so they could cover every moment of the drama inside Cynthia Payne met with her new defense counsel. David, Spence they were up against the prosecution led by Tony Longdon and all of this was presided over by judge Brian prior this time a jury would decide Cynthia Payne's fate on multiple charges, all once again, relating to exercising control over sex workers, and running a brothel for personal gain. In the court chose to specifically look at three avent's held at the Crandall house to analyze the question of guilt. The events in question took place on December thirteenth nineteen eighty five February twenty first nineteen eighty six and may thirtieth nineteen Eighty-six. The I of course was a Christmas event. The other two were held in celebration of the start and end of filming for Terry Jones and Julie Walters film about Cynthia however unbeknownst to Cynthia a traitor was in her midst. And now he was the prosecution's key witness his name police constable, Stuart Taylor. It all began on November eighth nineteen eighty five the metropolitan police suspected that Cynthia had not given up her old ways and her newfound celebrity irked them and injured the forces collective pride. So they enlisted Stuart Taylor to write a letter under the name, Peter Tallink tin addressed from Egypt, this Tallin ten claimed to be an old, client of cynthia's from back in the day, he was going to return to London and he hoped she was still holding her special parties. And so began a six month sting operation, as Taylor and eventually another police constable called Jack Jones attended three of Cynthia Payne's parties in order to prove that she was controlling sex workers and gaining profit from their work, Taylor Jones testimony would be the centerpiece of the prosecution's attack. While Cynthia Payne herself would take the witness stand to defend herself but first defense counsel, David, Spence had an argument to build during his opening statements Spence pushed back against Longdon and the prosecution's claims by getting very specific. Quote in this trial. The question of whether MS pain was controlling directing or influencing will be an issue. But the main issue is to be gained what Spence meant to show. The jury with this statement was that their main decision was whether or not Cynthia Payne actually held these parties to make herself richer, that would need to be their primary moral consideration. It was a shrewd move as it distance the trial from actual galaxy. It was hard to deny that these sex parties took place, instead, Spence asked of the jury. It was up to them to decide whether or not pain held these events for personal gain or for the betterment of the lives of clients and sex workers alike during that first Thursday of the nineteen eighty seven trial, Spence called to witness a few of the women who attended cynthia's events, and one male first I was a woman who went by the name Brit, Longdon attempted to attack her morality by asking how important it was for her to make money from sexual activity with the twinkle in the eye Brit, replied, simply it helps. This set the tone right away the prosecution, we're going to come off as stodgy and old fashioned, if they played too heavily into the moral irresponsibility of sex work on Friday, January twenty third David Spence called forth. Teresa banks and older woman who attended Cynthia Payne's parties banks arrived bundled up her appearance hidden as much as possible. She hoped to remain anonymous, when Longdon pressed banks asking if she ever charged for sexual services. The woman broke down into full sobs denying that she ever did, as for why there were so many there on the evening of may, thirtieth Bank said they were celebrating the completion of Terry Jones film, nothing more sinister than that. Finally, David, Spence called forth a witness the prosecution did not expect at all. It wasn't a woman. But a man named Keith savage. He was a frequent visitor of pains events and across dresser. He was taking a huge risk even showing his face and using his real name in such a public spectacle, again, savage denied that Cynthia Payne ever demanded money in exchange for attendance at her events and said that people were free to make their own decisions in private savage. Concluded his testimony by discussing the night of may thirtieth as the raid was in progress. Two men were practically shouting about paying money for the event, savage believed they were putting on a show to try and get other guests to admit they had paid for services at the house with that, Spence had laid all the foundation needed for the defense it was time for the prosecution's main event, Tony Longdon called police constable, Stuart Taylor. The stand from Thursday, January twenty third to Monday, January twenty sixth the prosecution and defense, each took turns cross, examining Stuart Taylor and his fellow police constable Jack Jones who ended up attending the three parties in question prosecuting lead Tony Longdon helped Taylor lay out his claims after Cynthia accepted Taylor on his word. He was invited to attend the December thirteenth nineteen eighty five Christmas party Taylor, outlined his journey through the evening, Cynthia greeted him at the door and escorted him inside. It seems her process had not changed much since nineteen seventy eight there was still plenty of food and drink and qs often seemed to form on the stairs. Taylor claims that Cynthia Payne introduced him to multiple women throughout the night, who each took him upstairs to a private room. Taylor had a cover story involving sexual dysfunction. So he did not engage in any sexual acts with these women, but he says that each offered their services, and he did pay them twenty five pounds each directly. So one thing had changed over the years. The luncheon vouchers were out the window in the eyes of the prosecution. This made the matter even more clear cut than before Cynthia Payne ran a brothel clear, and simple, it was a cash business, and cash did exchange hands Taylor finished his profile of the December thirteenth party by saying that when he asked MS pain if she herself needed payment, she replied, quote, I normally. Take the money when you leave it's thirty for me twenty five for the girls. And so Taylor says he paid Cynthia thirty pounds in cash. He also asked if he could bring his cousin herald to her next event this cousin police constable Jack Jones was brought to the February twenty first nineteen eighty six party, Jack Jones arrived dressed in women's clothes and makeup hoping to keep any suspicion at bay. He engaged in a similar process as Taylor meeting with women in the private rooms, paying them twenty five pounds each but refraining from any physical contact Jones. Also, presented Longdon and the prosecution with another key piece of testimony that he witnessed Cynthia Payne taking lewd, photographs in the back yard, accompanied by a male client with a limp, and one of the sex workers. All in all the prosecution worked to paint a damning portrait of deviance and dysfunction through the testimony of Taylor and Jack Jones at midnight on the evening of may, thirtieth Stuart Taylor claims to have successfully paid Cynthia Payne, the thirty pounds. She requested from each visitor. He then went upstairs to the laboratory press, hidden signaling device and returned downstairs where he asked if he could return to his car to retrieve a forgotten item when Cynthia opened the front door the police stormed inside. Longdon seemed pleased with Taylor's performance, no further questions your honor. He said as he smiled sadly, at the jury what else needed to be said. But Spence and Cynthia pains still had a few tricks, up their sleeves right away, Spence asked Taylor. If he was insistent in pressing the money on miss pain, during the nights of the parties, especially on may thirtieth Taylor replied. I wanted our money in her possession at the time of the police, raid, as I had recorded the serial numbers on the bills, a ha-, Spence looked quite pleased with himself. He returned to the claims made by his witness, Keith savage. This would seem to link Taylor Jones to the story told by savage about the party guests who were verbally speaking about paying Cynthia during the may, thirtieth raid who else but undercover. Cops would do something so foolish and. The face of imminent arrest Taylor. Shrugged this off and stuck to his story. They had paid. And so had others. It didn't matter. What was being said during the raid? But then Spence came back with an unexpected. Jab savage. Did mention something else about the men who were shouting about payments during the raid. He said that the heavier set man certainly Stuart Taylor now. Sweating on the witness stand had made aggressive drunken sexual advances on him even as the rest of the police were collecting statements and not only did Taylor do this. But Jack Jones also gave Keith savage a phone number to call so they could get together at a later date with both of these bombshells dropped spent ceased his cross, examining and sat down if the prosecution wanted to bring sexual. Deviancy into the spotlight. The defense wasn't afraid to fight back while savages. Testimony was far from definitive proof, Spence had cast enough, ambiguity into the events of maith thirtieth, nineteen eighty six to confuse and disorder the jury's perception of the prosecution's key witnesses. Coming up, Cynthia Payne takes the stand to defend herself before the jury, and now back to the trial of Cynthia Payne. The day was Tuesday, February third nineteen eighty seven the fifty four year old Cynthia Payne looked diminutive and repressed contained inside the witness box. Anyone who knew her? Well might have been worried this did not seem to be the sentient. They knew she was serious. She was angry and more than that she was frightened Longdon needed to recover lost ground after Spence's attacks on the respectability and integrity of Stuart Taylor and Jack Jones with Cynthia Payne in front of him. He had the chance to prove that this woman wasn't as innocent as she seemed he doubled down on the respectability, argument Longdon once again, brought in evidence of the sex toys and bondage equipment found inside Cran, Morehouse, Cynthia refused to acknowledge that these items were used at her. Party's once again, holding to the privacy of her own life against the events in question. Even judge Pryor couldn't hold back laughter during Longdon initial questioning of pain, but Cynthia wasn't having it. She called the judge out directly, quote, I am not in the mood for jokes, your honor. I'm trying to concentrate judge Pryor apologized and the mood for the first time in days became deadly serious Cynthia Payne's. Life was at stake, and she was not going to let the circus like atmosphere of the courthouse distract from that long been strategy was already backfiring. He was desperate. So he asked her about Robert Mitchell Smith. The air force squadron leader who had become very close with pain in his later years, even living with her at Cran Morehouse for stretches of time Longdon began to imply that the bondage equipment had been taken from Smith's residents following his death in nineteen. Eighty one he also brought up the fact that Cynthia had been the one to find Smith dead in his own home after no one had checked in on him for two weeks. Cynthia refuted, the idea that she took these items for use at her party's she explained. She had taken them away from Smith's personal residence because she knew he wouldn't want the rest of his extended family to learn of their existence. She was just trying to protect his legacy. Even though it covered up, who he really was, when Longdon continued depress Cynthia on her discovery of the body, Cynthia Payne broke down. She waved off Longdon questions saying, don't ask me that I can stand all the other questions, but not that Cynthia composed herself but Longden was thrown off. He couldn't risk causing more damage to the prosecution's image. So he backed. Down when spent stepped up to question his client. He opened strong. He explained that Cynthia Payne circa, nineteen eighty upon her release from Holloway prison. Did not want for money. Cynthia had received an inheritance from her father Hamilton, after he passed in nineteen eighty she also collected a fair amount of money from press interviews conducted in the aftermath of her prison sentence, and from selling the rights to her story to Paul Bailey, the biographer and Terry Jones film production, Spence asked Cynthia about kran more houses mortgage, and she stated that squadron leader. Smith had helped her purchase the house outright, her events, were solely due to her love of entertaining. A guest or two might give her a few pounds to cover the cost of food, or perhaps bring some bottles to restock alcohol supply. But she accepted, no charge. As for the claims of PC, Stuart Taylor Cynthia Payne said he was much pushier at the may thirtieth event, quote, he put the money into my hand. I pushed it away. I was worried because he was aggressive. And I don't like anything like that at a party. It was unusual because of the other two parties, he behaved well after three days of cross examination Cynthia Payne stepped down from the witness stand, it was Friday, February sixth and the trial was coming to a close. The defense seemed strong but one by graphical detail would soon threaten their stability. Spence believed he had saved the best witness for last a former police superintendent named Peter Jones in the nineteen seventies Jones had been involved in the initial investigation against her supposed brothel operation, but following her first trial. And release he then became one of her favorite guests and friends, Spence. Knew this would be a huge boon for the defense. The prosecution was relying on the public's trust in the police. But now they had a policeman of their own after three decades on the police force Jones retired in nineteen seventy nine he told Spence that he had been secretly impressed and interested in Cynthia Payne's outlook on life and pleasure and started attending her party's throughout the early nineteen eighties. He claimed that no money ever exchanged hands. He. He also backed up Keith savages. Claims about Taylor and Jack Jones shouting, about paying money during the raid trying to rile up discontent. Longdon wouldn't let this attack stand. He bit back accusing Peter Jones of losing track of his morals following his retirement, quote, you got hooked after you had been involved in the investigation, and you're not telling the truth today. Are you Peter Jones was offended? He wouldn't take such acusations. He looked Longden in the eye and said full of conviction after thirty years service and the police force. I know what the oath means and the importance of it case closed as far as Peter Jones thought, but then longed in revealed his final gambit. He brought up a passage from Paul, Bailey's nineteen eighty biography of cynthia's life on pay. Ninety three Bailey wrote about a former police chief, who attended her party's throughout the nineteen seventies not just after nineteen seventy nine and that this man of honor enjoyed being whipped this riled Peter Jones, he refused to accept that this police chief in the biography was him. Longdon had introduced an ambiguity into Peter Jones. Testimony Justice, Spence had done to detailer and Jack Jones. He hoped now to break even in the minds of the jury if his prosecution lost face. So would the defense judge Pryor called the data a close on this dramatic note, and told the parties to prepare for their closing statements on Monday, February ninth Paul Bailey? The biographer was mortified since writing cynthia's life story. He had grown to love and respect. This woman. When he refused to believe that his own book, could harm her case he spent the entire weekend. Pouring through his biography trying to identify the source of the discrepancy at the last minute on Sunday evening. Bailey discovered the air, he had written about two former police chiefs who attended her nineteen seventies events, there was the first mentioned on page ninety three and then a second under the pseudonym Cuthbert on page one hundred thirty three his notes matched this Cuthbert with Peter Jones and backed up Jones's claims that he didn't begin attending events until nineteen seventy nine when court resumed on Monday, Bailey, requested a special presentation with judge Pryor and was able to provide this evidence to the jury he hoped this would be enough all that remained. Now were the closing stay. Moments. Longdon wrapped up his argument as simply as he had begun it each woman named in the charges against Cynthia was a sex worker they had accepted cash at some point for sexual services. There was testimony from both sides that showed Cynthia, as an able host who often matched guests with these women and finally that Cynthia had accepted money during these parties, although the luncheon voucher scheme was out the window Longdon said that she had merely created another device a variation on a theme. She was still a brothel operator and she did it for money. Spence tried to keep the mood lighter, although the jury at this point had adopted Cynthia Payne seriousness, he told them what was served up at Cynthia. Payne's parties may not have been your Cup of tea, but one of the differences between MS pain and many people is that she does not find other people sex distasteful. In fact, it is something which gives her pleasure outside of this. She is a woman, a very few vices, the closing arguments made the prosecution and defense both rested judge Pryor briefed the jury and reminded them that this was not circus entertainment, this was law, and it was time for them to lay down the law. The jury deliberated for two days on the morning of Wednesday February eleventh nineteen eighty seven Cynthia Payne held court down in the courthouse. Lunchroom. Mm-hmm. Autographing copies of her biography. She posed for press photos, holding a small stuffed policemen. Dulles her companion in the afternoon. The call came down the line. Judge Pryor wanted them back in the courtroom. The room overflowed the court usher, had to push reporters out of the witness stand the last remaining seat in the house. The jury returned judge Pryor looked down at them, expectantly and gave permission to speak. Everyone waited with bated breath and then the judgment arrived, not guilty. The room literally erupted into applause. And cheers, a grin finally returned to Cynthia Payne's face on her way out of the courtroom. She even winked at the despondent. Stuart Taylor and Jack Jones. She had finally won her freedom Cynthia Payne attributed her victory to the public support for her cause and the mistreatment of sex workers across the country, her celebrity did not fade, and she continued to write cheeky books and support sex workers for the rest of her life in nineteen eighty eight. She even formed her own independent political party called the rainbow alliance pain and pleasure party, spelled as she spelled her name with a y although she never won a seat in parliament. She remained an advocate for the legalisation of sex work until her death in two thousand fifteen at the age of eighty two but her story remains as an example of the strange contradictions of sex work and legal regulations, especially in a country like Britain, where sex work is a stencil legal. There is still a fight raging to protect vulnerable sex workers, and define acceptable, and legal place for them in societies across the world. But in nineteen eighty seven Cynthia Payne won a small victory for the cause that would keep it moving into the twenty first century and beyond. Unlike the luncheon voucher that she made infamous Cynthia Payne wanted, her social service to be useful and real on her way out of the courthouse in nineteen eighty seven reporters shouted questions at the newly victorious advocate, what will you do? Now, Cynthia they all asked breathless with excitement. Cynthia responded in a calm measured tone full of certainty for the first time in a long while. Have a party, of course. Thanks for listening to not guilty. We'll be back Thursday with a new episode. You can find more episodes of not guilty as well as all of our casts, other shows, on Spotify or your favorite podcast. Directory, several of you have asked how to help us, if you enjoy the show, the best way to help us to leave a five star review and no, forget to follow us on Facebook and Instagram at par cast and Twitter at par cast network, not guilty was created by max Cutler is a production of Cutler media and is part of the par cast network. It is produced by max and Ron Cutler sound design by Russell, Nash with production assistance by Ron Shapiro and Paul Moller additional production assistance by Carly. Madden and Maggie admire not guilty is written by Jack. Ben tell I'm Vanessa Richardson.
Cynthia Bailey & Dulce Sloan
"Welcome to the Bravo clubhouse for the podcast edition of. Watch what happens. Live with me. Andy Cohen she's grappling with my gills past. Either Selbe got married. She flew her flag at half mast. It's what's I was Cynthia. Bailey and Dole say Sloan Watchword Evans. I've I'm your host. Andy Cohen Brothers. Ready to dive into all of tonight's. Atlanta drama drama which was richer than a sweet piece of Bach. Lavar verse. Gus worked a Grecian Goddess Ensemble tonight while working overtime to get Kenya Anini on the same page. Please welcome Cynthia. Bailey is always turn it out. Always turn out nate. We appreciate it my next guest the seats as a standup and she's not scared to tell you if you need to take several seats either from the daily show with Trevor Noah weeknights at eleven on comedy central. Say I will say slow. I'm so excited. You're big housewives fan. I love see white. Women acted a fool on television favorite. Oh that makes me happy tonight. When the Atlanta ladies arrived in Athens they were greeted by Greek chorus of four legged friends. Take a look scared of cats out here. Who knows so much pussy agrees with you. I in honor of that moment and Dennis not being around over the bar. Kevin delay goal from animal care centers of New York City with them. Right now is to Challah and these are available for rescue where yes care centers of New York. One hundred tenth between first and second locations in all five boroughs. Okay very good. Let's get started tonight. Hundred Atlanta the women made their way to their Grecian homes and Cynthia made her case for no roommate take a look at these rooms shady component. I just WANNA be exempt from share room. Because I'm really feeling like any privacy. Facetime text playing which we're only town. You might get it on over the phone often really. Yeah Me Neat We. We're still in our prime. I know where we are certain age at this point but yeah we get it in right. Yeah Okay Cynthia was great seeing you. Anini getting along so well. Where does your relationship stand today? As far as I'm concerned we're in a good place. Grab a good respectful place. Now that may have changed since we got another place but I. I'm concerned Cynthia. Endorse air coming in. But before we get to those. Here's what three things I'm obsessed with tonight. I was grappling with mark calling off their relationship so she called on. Candy and Cynthia I support. This was sad watch. What is your say? He's doing something else. Because I see these text messages. One of the women was begging him to keep the sex going rosemary audited yes and I proceeded to let her know if she came anywhere else near my husband. I know where she lives. My publicist cause me you. And Mark are separating. And he's going to make a statement later today. I just hope she realizes that mark may not be the one for her sooner than later. I firsthand that once you commit to those years this time you just can't get back. Felt so bad for her and it was wild to me when he walked out of that charity and said this is the last time you're going to see me so. I mean he clearly that he knew. Yeah I mean apparently so I look. I have been around Kenyan mark when they were in a good place. So it's really hard for me to really see where they are now. You know what I'm saying so I don't know I. My heart goes out to Kenya and I feel like at the end of the day. She she deserves love she she's ever wanted was yeah. Well here's what. When this season began. Cynthia was ready to race down the aisle to become Mrs Mike Hill but she soon in a few seat speed bumps that seemed to slower down. Watch this you've done some things. I've done some things I'm not proud of. You have shown that you will cheap. I want I think we should definitely think about talking to somebody. Okay then this one thing I know about Mike. A good man does a good mean chain now. Multiple Times does a good man hurt someone. Because you're cheater your liar. I've never gone there and I am a little nervous to go with Mike. I cannot imagine what other layers can be peeled off. What was your reaction to this? This is the thing people. Act like a man when someone cheats. They're always a cheater. And that's how you can write somebody off but I don't think that's always yeah. I don't agree with that either and let me just be clear As far as him cheating one of the things that I share show was that you know he cheated in his two marriages. I'd never said to Mike has cheated with every person. He's and not to make excuses. I mean he's got married when he was eighteen. That was the first mayor. Gary didn't well fitting than in Athens. The birthplace of democracy. Cynthia tried to reinstate some civility between Kenya Anini. But here's what tonight. Cynthia's efforts seemed to result in pure anarchy. Watch this spirit. Like median Kenya. Act to stay a little later in fellowship. Okay what's going to sleep with fellow Shipping Brooklyn at? This is when it bothers me because Nina just issues will in the fellowship and talk with you WanNa wind also thank. All of you guys did thank you. I heard that but that was come. Sit Down and talk anywhere pushy. Just wants to know what it is. I was bringing desert to everybody. I will be going this way. Eight Times late was for you. This okay King. Be Clear Canyon. An her basket. Well that didn't work out. No like was plan. But here's the thing I will say in needs defense. She really try to be kind to Kenya right in that moment. She really truly did and candy. And I had had a whole thing with the ladies about like. Please show some compassionate. Can you guys may not be in the best place but this had just happened and she was really before a lot of pain. Yeah so once. We had that talk and everybody kind of agreed to be. Okay you know. Four to kind of go to the left was like come on. Can you can you just like? Let me be nice to frustrate in the seat because it was like Kenya was like no and he was like. Oh and then. Can you turn in any? No you like now. Right time died. Finally when dossier isn't lighting up the stage. She's burning through the Bravo backlog. So I know she came with plenty of hot takes share. Here's what Josie. I'm going to run through some recent Bravo drama. GimMe your thoughts. Kenyan mark separation was. They're split the best a decision in your thoughts on Kenya's submissive Marital alter-ego. Ken What how will you? I've been a situation before. Because if you're an Alpha female of your strong woman with you get with someone else too strong and sometimes you feel like you have to pull back understand what she was coming from. But that was a lot Do you believe that Kenya needed will ever be able to move past their differences and have enough entity friendship. I think part with civil but I don't think it'll be a friendship. Dvd's apology tour. This season how genuine has she been very genuine? When y'all were having your conversation and she was outside trying I was just going to say sorry. Say sorry sorry do so. No not you her. Oh office had in. The NIIMI doesn't want to be on the outside anymore. And that's great. Because she is one very strong character for the franchise but also it's everyone loves her and you don't want to be the person that's on the house reaction to Kenya surprising with the Cookie Lady. Whose side are you on when it comes to those who was disrespectful as hell. Oh Jesus oh the fact that she didn't have across the table. Is God working and dentist? You believe these two will be able to move passer issues and rebuild their family. I think Dennis really wants to and I am very porsches always wanted a family and if this is the man that she has with very happy for her but he needs to work in New Jersey Jennifer said Melissa's too self absorbed another be. A baby agree or disagree. Reaction to the revelation. The Theresa Influence Danielle and pulling Margaret's ponytail shade. But in the defense now the thing is Margaret Info and Beverages Danielle world. That is wonderful name. She used to fight. Who's best for? Dolores Franker David. We all know to answer that question because listen they think pops off. Who's on call Frank? Exactly let's go to emily from Tampa handily. What your question. I don't think my question is for fellow Pisces after Kenya. Are you under the bus with the drama that she has your back as I do consider can your friend? Yes she did throw me. Is the question that day. That's for sure but I feel like you know on the show. The show is a show. And then you know you have to factor in the relationship outside. Show well when you put someone's going to throw you under the bus on the show. We see apologize. Kinda got past that. We may have to revisit it but we will visited at the reunion. It is what it is but you know I I buy my friendships so I you know we get past it. Let's go to abby from Atlanta Your hometown does say what's your question. You'll say hi amy. The air of you back. I don't say possibly. What was your reaction to everything that came out of Super Tuesday and all of these Democratic candidates supporting Biden. Okay listen one. We should have never seen so many candidates. Yeah ever yeah everybody in the dance. The Democratic Party should have sat down like okay. Your Secretary of State University anybody. Yeah it was it was it was. It's King of the Mountain Hill though. No-one is cooperating. No one had a via conversation. I can't say that I still don't know who I would because my private number primaries and come up yet so I still don't know who I'm going to vote for what we're going to vote for our right Cynthia Hannah Jay said. I can't believe you're former assistant. Carlton was on. Love is blind. Did you watch the show wanted if so what did you think of his exit? And you're going to get this question. I did watch the show and Looking on the bright side of what I took from the show. I'm glad he came out and he's like free to be himself and WHO WANTS TO BE I don't agree with the way he handled things obviously Toward the end of his. You know parcel absolutely i. I've been talking to him trying to give him some positive council because he's been going through a really really really really tough time so all right. Let's go to Dana from Philly. Hey Dana what's your question. I my questions for Cynthia. Considering that meany with over two hours late to her own brunch did you. Did she really have the right to be mad at Kenya for only staying for seven minutes Well considering that she was two hours late herself then I would have to say no not really. I think she could have let that one go. It's games that I've everybody since. Try just interrupted. You and Cynthia is a certified snake expert at this point. I want to see how well my guests can separate the two tellers from the Lakers signed. Play truth or wives are animated box of housewives? Spins you will take turns yelling. Stop and listening to a statement you will then guess if it's true or false of you're right you get the point if you're wrong you're opponent. Does I get five points? Wins Cynthia Your First Gel Stung all right? Porsche? William Sayer fact Porsche. One nabbed use the bathroom without my squatty. Potty is it true does she rely on squatty. Potty also She does. I don't even know what that is true. That is true okay. Juicy gets the point alright. You'll say y'all stop okay. I used to work out with Princess Diana in London. True or false through all right. It's Richards I've trained. Aco that when he smells a certain perfume he knows. I'm in the mood to get down true. We'll say you're killing I. Love are okay. I was a teenager. I tried to convince my mom to legally changed my name to Chanel true point for now. Okay Ramona this'll be never use public bathrooms so gross true all right. Listen is her. When I was away I learned worth squirting is I never know? She did what she wanted. His kidneys are okay. Let's go. Let's go to Karen from Virginia Karen. What's your question? My question is percents Do you really think that Kenya wasn't trying to ruin your proposal. I do not feel in my heart of hearts. Kenya is my friend. I that is just what I believe and what I feel in my heart. I felt like it was really a thing to do to tell me in her defense. She said she was excited. I cannot believe that my friend would just purposely want to come and ruin my proposal. It was it was shady boots. I'll say that because it didn't seem candy. Gave our nut for information to let her know what time it was and I feel like she got. Maybe she got over excited for you right and that could have been with the campaign. Is that campaign. She's a shade The March v said. How many red flags do you need before you cancel the engagement? Jesus listen rebuked that Mike and I are of a certain age. Let's be clear so we both have lived lived. We've lived our lives so I don't feel like the fact that he chose to be transparent and what he's done with his life a red flag if anything. The Red Flag to me is being with someone who is secretive. Salinas said Dole. Say What do you think about Joe? Gorka doing stand up one. I Love Joke Orcas. Yeah every time I watch the sorry go please. Jesus send me a man that loved me like your Loves MELISSA STAND UP STAND OKAY? Tell jokes order. You have a rooftop competition out all right today and since I'm joined by a professional fake journalist. I thought I'd let her deliver the news. Dual say what's Your Mazal from the Bras Bravo sphere. Oh my Masel is joke work. Oh it is even when he did what Melissa work. He's still built her an entire boutique. He was like to do this but I will be. Happy gets it. And you're Jack Hall Mark Daley Okay Man on fire awful human being okay like he's not not it's just like yes candy. I mean yes. Kenya's not been nice to people but there is such a way that he talks to her and there's such you can just watch them go. Oh this man doesn't love this. You got a pretty baby out of somebody. That's what you did. Because it doesn't seem like he loves her and he talks to her so wild and it seems like she's just like okay just to keep my family together. I'm knuckle check this man. Chuck him a check list. Does as Kevin Sutter's your you know you learn something new. 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Park Charity Event and Why do you think mark didn't say hi to you Mike When he walked into the event Oh okay all right marlow and Kenya. Well when Marlowe actually came in the table. That Kenya director was really right beside us. We all couldn't sit at the same table. So that's why when I came out and said you'll be able to touch you like right there. That's why I went after her so she was never in the back of the room. She was at the table beside us. I don't know if that was cleared and editing. But that's what happened okay As far as mark. Not Say hello to you guys when you came in. Well no mark did not say hello when he came into the event and that was kind of disheartening because Mike is like really like professional. He's very big on preparation. He's like harassing me. Not BEING ON TIME. You know this is important. I don't want to support mar one. Make sure I'm ready. I want to get the lane. I'm like he's like going crazy. So bad there and we're early and when mark finally walks in of course we're like thinking he's GonNa come in and be like. Hey you know what are because he has a whole walk. The whole run a show. Yeah anyway that didn't happen so I thought well that wasn't right like we're we're here trying to support what you're doing. Yes you know what I'm saying so I thought that was just because it looked like it was hosting the event yet. Look like Mike was really kind of running out what he was he was but he didn't have all the information that he needed. He wanted to be you know like I said he's preparation. He wanted to talk about mark for something. Like what are we doing? How's the rundown he would go? We got it. It's fine we got it for my for. Mike wants details. He wants to do a good job. Should have details. He's one and all show. I'd open my Martin to Karen from Virginia Question. Hey Karen Karen Oh actually. It's Amanda from Tennessee. Hey Amanda which question. Hey I love you. You're the queen of Atlanta thank. You don't say it too loud. Please say Darlan real housewives. What would your tag on a? What would your tagline the house. So don't start nothing in the trailer where I pay rent. Let's go to Liz from Walla Walla Washington Liz which my my my questions for dual say Excluding DONALD TRUMP. Which politician are you most thankful for because of how much mature material they provide the daily show? Who would you over the daily show not me? Yeah Yeah what the most material for the daily show excluding Donald Trump I think biden gives us a good amount. Because he's having this kind of these little brown out like toaster right now. He's got to forget where he is where he's at shot. Joe Biden for protecting him and Simone Sanders. Because it's nice to see women in action but yeah I think Biden's been given us. Some good good treats was just a man named Chris was interviewing use. Of course you call them up. Because that's how nicknamed I wanNA thank every morning? Everybody Victor Rate Rusty. You're don't see whose mom approaching me at all until got all my God. She's granting above visual spam elite. There's no stopping her. I don't wish mine'd raisch most my close friend and obviously I have to tell her what Lopa has said because she's out here to sabotage the relationship. She's very cocky and thinks she can get away with murder.
Getting Your Ish Together w/ Cynthia Wright
"Take hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of Captain Hunters podcast. Thank you so much. What for tuning in and I really appreciate once again as I say all the time the love and the support that you all have been giving thank you so much? Today's episode is is a good one. We got a fellow podcasters by the name of Cynthia Right. She hosts the podcast called getting your ish together. I try not to swear on this podcast because I wanted to be family friendly. I want people to be able to have your kids. Listen and make sure that your children are able to listen to this because they may want to become police officers one day so so. That's the reason that I don't swear or at least I try not to wear so her podcast is called getting your is together and the author. Is Cynthia Right. So we'll get into the episode in just a few moments but as we always do let's get through the house keeping being items to housekeeping. Of course is that you please help. Support the podcast through Van Mall through cash through pay pal or you can go to the Patriots page. Captain Hunter's podcasts on Patriot and support. Remember it costs money to put these episodes upper every week. I have to pay for the storage. I bought complain to buy more equipment to make sure the podcast for you is bigger and better starting in twenty twenty. I'm going to have some items that are going to be for sales. T shirts for Captain Hunters podcast. I'm going to have some mugs where you can go on the website and buy items for Catta hunters podcast. So you've been looking for that. Does all support trying to support the podcast and make sure that the AH podcast is growing advertisement marketing and all that kind of stuff so just be a supporter and the on the look out for those items. Remember to subscribe rate and share these episodes share with your friends. CERT- with the neighbors shit through email you can make make clips of the episode put together. Put It on your own facebook page through email. Please make sure to rate subscribe and that you share that way. It's easier easier for me to be found and most importantly is the sharing option. Please make sure that you are telling your friends telling neighbor and getting the word out about what captain hunters. There's podcast is all about so ladies and gentlemen thank you so much for paying attention to the good housekeeping now back to the show so I went to a drug drug reform conference in Saint Louis Missouri a few weeks ago at the beginning of November twenty nineteen and it was very informative very enlightening. I learned a lot and and I learned a lot about addiction but prior to me actually going to the particular venue in Saint Louis. I met Miss Cynthia right through a facebook group for fellow podcasters and this particular group. She and I hooked up and I thought that her story was really good and really great. The premise of her show getting your together is is about people who have or are dealing with addiction now. Miss Right is very open and honest about her addiction shoots. She's GonNa talk about on the show. Oh so therefore I have any qualms about talking about it right now but her addiction in her book of choice was alcohol so some people are hooked on the more harder drugs drugs heroin cocaine etc etc etc Miss Rights drug of choice was alcohol. And you will learn that. She is his college educated and that she developed her addiction in her thirties. Right so this is not something that people develop you know in history when our teenager not just something. I think that people develop when they're teenagers or in their early twenties but in her thirties. She developed this drug addiction in is very interesting to see that even though her family and her friends even other professionals her doctor and all that told her about herself and told her about her addictions. It's it's only when she decided to get clean and sober that she actually made the steps efforts to get clean and sober so I congratulate her on her steps to get clean. And it's over to you know I. It's about a lot of times dissuading for that person to be ready. It doesn't matter when you and your family member or family friend of someone who is suffering bring from addiction who you can cry you can wind. You can complain you can't and Monisha. You can warn you can scold you can yell scream to the top of your lungs things but it's not into the person who's actually ready to face their demons that they will actually do something about it. And that was the case with Ms Cynthia right so I think her story is very is is a good one So we're going to deal with addiction and we're going to deal with addiction a number of ways in the next few coming episode associates. I have other episodes that are going to deal with addiction and people who are trying to get people off of addiction. We're GONNA talk about harm reduction on that and essentially harm reduction. Action is allowing people to go through their addictive process if you will or or allowing them to engage in certain behaviors while loving them An understanding that they can't change they won't change until they are actually ready so those future episodes that it could become an up. I still have a lot out of episode that I recorded about other topics as well and I'm still looking for guests on a wide variety of topics in fact to be taught him looking to expand the show and talk more about law enforcement. I WanNa talk about the whole person right. So because because the the premise of the show is bridging the gap or bridging the divide between the police in the communities that they serve while I want to focus more on the communities and I believe that in order to have strong communities that that you need to have strong families strong community centers that would be churches religious organizations that would be strong fraternities pretty strong sororities strong civic organizations and things like that and that will produce strong communities so strong families strong civic and religious is organizations and that means that you had to be strong as well and I'm GonNa talk a little bit more about this in another episode and so stay tuned for all that so a lot of expanding is going going to be going on with Capitol Hunted podcast. Yes we're going to focus on law enforcement. Yes we're GONNA look at the items that are going on around law enforcement. How do we commit law enforcement better? But we have to have strong strong. Not only do we need strong law enforcement officials who are part members of the community but we also need strong community members and that once again in is about strong families strong civic organizations and strong individuals in those family strong fathers in the home strong mothers in the home and yes. I said it strong. A father's nest needed me in a home. And yes. I'm saying strong. Mothers need to be in the hall. Strong family units a whole well rounded people. And we're GONNA talk about that when they got got an going to get into that financial literacy people who are going to be coming on and just a whole host of other options and people that were going to be exploring and dealing with getting all of our stuff together in short as Ms Cynthia writing saying getting all of our ish together. We're going to get together and we're going to build up our community so without further ado. Here's a little bit about mis. Cynthia right after deciding to gets over in twenty nineteen. Cynthia decided to live life life on her terms and crust stigmas associated with addiction and addictive behavior. Thus her podcast getting you're ish together was born where where she dishes it. Up every week on topics ranging from leveling up guilt and shame in acceptance all types of toxic relationships and and how they impact your life talks about eating disorders and the random. QNA from her audience. New episodes dropped every Thursday at eight. Am Eastern turn standard time. She still working on and building her website But you can find her podcast. Getting you're ish together on I tunes Pandora. You can listen on bus route and you can also listen to it on soundcloud on Apple podcasts and spotify getting you're ish together now when I say getting together at the actual spelling of it is getting getting your getting space your S. H.. Star T- together. That's how you say I'm saying ish but it's really getting your shit together itself getting your together. So that's a little bit about mis. Cynthia right so without further Ado Ladies and gentlemen. Here is the interview with Miss Cynthia Right. We're talking with Cynthia. Right thank you. So much for being uncapped hunters podcast. You are the host of the podcast getting your itch together. That is a rag. Then thank you any longer. Thank you so much for being here. So let's just start off with. How did did you get the name? How did you develop the name for your podcast? You know similar and I'm a member a AH women of Color podcasters circle and one of the questions. Brock Kober was like. How did you come up with your gain and the which actually enter today So it's Kinda like full circles that was in the morning announcements but Simply put I suck at names like I suck at naming thing. I do a lot other things like right. And I'm horrible. Navy KITSON's like it's not emory data and I was saying. Oh some sort of podcast. So many years now how and I was talking to my friend like going back and forth. I mean 'cause she's really good at naming things And I was like well trying to talk about like you know getting your dollar right and I feel like my name but I like that name so why not make Ah name like that and I said yes that's GonNa be the name of my contacts so from that from that day for It's called that ever since I was trying to think about. I know a swear word in it but how trying to figure out like well I didn't WanNa Downfield downfield glasses but then I kind of quite are breaking now and I'm not trying to. I didn't know at the time I don't know how big I want. You're trying to be trying to get my story out her to Cox gangs and other people maybe connect. But I wasn't thinking I was going to be like he's popular podcast. So I'm like you know I'm just GONNA go with it so the more that I did passing. I think it kind of like my personality and the brand a little kind of gone on the people out there may not realize how difficult it is to come up with a name for your podcast i. It is hard I struggled with the name of mine. I mean it may seem very simple but I was going back and forth with a bunch of different names and then I just dropped an episode and and then I had a friend of mine listen to it. He's like okay. We'll just call the captain hunter. podcast what's wrong with. I'm like okay all right you know so. Sometimes it's sometimes times. A simplest thing that comes to mind you know works but we don't think so we're looking for something elaborate. That's going to grab the attention so I certainly understand good. I'm sorry thinking about it like this is GonNa be everywhere so once you start putting stuff out there like I changed at the last minute change not just like changing. Your logo was like changing fifty million places like neither have a name that sticks and that you you feel l.. Comfortable you know using are going out there you know. Don't want to and I'm not that crazy about the name but anyway I know that's not the topic I could go on and on about Brandon. We'll talk about whatever you WanNa talk about it. That's totally fine. I and that's what you do right. Let's let's get off topic here. So that's what you do you. Oh You you're an advertising marketing specialists or something I yeah. I look probably managing our wicked appetizing. I've been a manager since college then a long long long time. Even though I don't really think about my age was in both did I don't know but I do do I work in a lot of Helped brand a lot of different things I think about it but it's so funny that I can do it for other people and other other corporations but I can't do it for myself like I. Maybe it's too close to me so I can't say like Oh because then I'll talk with somebody up and we'll have. Have you ever tried a giveaway. Yeah definitely did that before. I don't know why donning myself like that for my own business. But the Weird Eh. Yeah that is that is very interesting. I wonder why that is. I'm sure that there are some psychological reason and I have a degree Rian Psychology. So I should know that but I don't so So tell us a little bit about yourself and before we're going to get into would you. PODCAST is about which is getting together is about dealing with addiction recovery from addiction. But just tell us a little bit about yourself infant. Well my name. Is Cynthia right before. But I and I'm in my thirties and info now or did here for quite some. I don't remember when they first here. I work in advertising. Dang I am not married Let's see and And I wanted to questions all. I think what people really want to know about me. I right I'm very. They must be creative person. Even though my career is even though I work in creative industry is not really that very operational very functional which I kind of Lake but In my day to day I'm photographer. Writer Dan I like to dance so I do a lot of things for creative like myself And I knew something about me. I realized that I do a lot of things like that. Visually or verbally or like. I guess Body Movement has When it comes to me having to verbally say things it's harder I i? I'm learning learning over the into it. just being able to prep myself like it's harder for me to do it in a verbal way back right down. I can I can take a photo and like get feeling off of that or I'm running for office and comfort her become comfortable president like the body and stuff like that because I didn't talk about tailings or understanding or get into how feeling for so many years probably actually which is why I ended up and so uncomfortable effects off but I'm learning about a lot of that stuff now naked been interesting year for sure so I see so oh at once again. Let me thank you for coming on the PODCAST. I know that your story as far as recovering from addiction. And that's what. This episode is about recovering from Addiction. I want to thank you for number one coming on a show number two talking about and your podcast. That's how I found out about. You is through one of the facebook groups that we we you and I about the part of you talked about your your podcast and that's how we hooked up so let's talk about your addiction and go back to what you addiction is and how you developed this addiction for for lack of better term so I always find it interesting. Thanks I don't think you got like Oh come up gate that's now that in Your type of thing and you go and wonder actually I feel like a lot about the underlying stuff great because a lot of people have here diction or had it or anything that automatically like red flags along soft and had kid you know I get I have I have to And it was just starting looking at my lights rights and things that I've been quick my life and it's like a lot of people are stuck. That happens they nobody. Life is perfect but it also you have to do with like how do you hope you know how did you. How were you socialize? Probably reigns to be able to handle either for handle you know. Think people feeling different or you know when you support it when it nurtured where you all this other type of stuff throwing up and it's not like the crap or dumper my parents my parents They did the best. They had an element of trauma. And they're back down to and if you're not the whole there you know that stuff is generational you know it happened. You know you can easily beat over So I think to me. I grew up in a lot of trauma like I had a lot of it and it wasn't like a physical thing but it is a lot of and I think now certain more well-known about how it is like emotional stuff Just be damaging and GM not more so than physical no. It's not but it is still really impact. You not just like you know that day. But for for years and I think a lot of that is true and then I wanted a family I can talk or so for example my dad repay. It wasn't an okay. He's so we moved around a lot. So you to around people like you and I liked that but then I'm back to meet. My parents. Were like you know we're GonNa put you in. I know you know to them. Like all school districts and everything like that That was better. We better every number two there. I will get tested. Take classes and I'm the only girl air I open so it was like back in a mostly white school. I'm not I'm not back then at all I would and then I I would like which way like you know someone be like well. No we've found. It brings what he knew about that. Why are you here? Look at you know and then I would come home and try to explain it to my parents. I mean they. I didn't understand it. You know my brother kind of like on the popularly side and then it was sort of like okay. What do I do so then I was like I can't control well? How hot really I tried? I can't so I was like well letting try bigger. Fix My body like you know so I would do a lot of things like like I had an eating disorder the automobile say starting to put Greens. You know In our grade you said fourth yeah fourth grade and but me I was doing stuff but now like going back with very could you do what you I do. And I'm like okay but it's like but if you want to pinpoint like my personality when it comes to like heater could start there because it's all about village changing your Present moment your present day or your life. You know you're offering it in some way and I feel like I've been doing that then I can remember. I can't even remember timeline. You know because it's been part of my life whether it be it then then it in more like alcohol but an hasn't it didn't really go further that but I also knew at that time you know I couldn't venture down that road mealy bright though if that is just how I thought and then I had that year Maybe thirty they're like. Oh that I'm not that I feel. I'm sorry you had you had a sense of superiority because you were just drinking and you weren't doing hard drugs so you look down on people are yeah 'cause I was like Oh they're out of control. You know you could that like they're gonna all this money they're going to be like Lincoln their friends and it's like the near like dynamic because owner. Who all I you to? I could stop anytime they want to. But it's like in reality. You know looking back now. I mean some of the theory that I hope people. They're like what and are like. Yeah you'll have three like that and and sometimes some people would but local partners and things but I was like in my mind I was like well. Jim Contains the aims. I'm not on Farallon. I'm not a wheel those are. That's that's a bigger. That's destroying your. I'm different in reality filling up so what I find interesting. What what you're saying is that you had an eating disorder in the fourth grade about AIDS? Ten right yeah How did you how did you deal with that? I mean I. I don't know I don't I do with that. I mean I remember Knbr you know I would stole money from my mom to actually by Diet and they sold them to me and like I remember like it was just the way you know and I look I mean I was end there. Sure where around there and I feel like a kid. You're not supposed to fellow thanks to kids but the woman bulletin three I was I was like Oh God pulls I would not eat like myself I you work out for like hours on end and this is like period from fourth grade on Police College. Maybe like I was kind of like fluctuating on off with that and my new. I assume anything you're eating. Disorder was Bolivia or Anorexia or or what I would say it was definitely more liberal. Wow Wow did your parents know that you were blaming that you were. I assume that you were eating thrown up. Do they eat a lot or workout for like hours and hours like six like reading is that I would do and I think he knew they didn't know. What do you know and I used to be like well? Why don't you say as something but my family doesn't do that? Like people be and it. I don't know I don't know I feel like you know it's just how my parents were raised. And how my and my brother ended up getting raised. And now I'm trying to like work on breaking that pattern but they can. You could see something thing and it could be like that all day and just not talk about it. So that's that's almost a trauma on top of trauma right so you go to school in the fourth grade going to school dinner with skinny girls skinny girls. And you don't know how to cope with you talked to your parents. They don't know how to deal with it now. You're working out taking diet pills. Your parents still can't deal with it so this is a nexus of of of all this trauma that you're talking about. I would assume yeah the live trauma and it's like my mom had a very adversarial relationship you know Not got along but I always thought that she bird my brother to me you know. She's really close to her brother growing up and she was more comfortable around the energy the email and I was a inquisitive childlike athletic questions. And I'm curious until like that. I bought question period about the world because I feel like find it so fascinating interesting. How can you not question Dr Driving Crazy so I have to tell her but and and then she lost her mom at a young age. I think My mom passed away from cancer when I was twenty three but One of the things thing. She told me she was dying. She has after a certain time. Like Well there's a lot of things. There's another trauma. I don't know if you've gotten this far in my caught. Ah but I identify here right so I during your teenage years. You start questioning thing there about yourself and my mom found my diary About questioning my. I was angry at her. You know the teenagers are angry. It just breaks up down She run it was really hurt by it. Shared it with my entire family like my brother. Running Dad read it supposedly but she didn't talk to you for like a year though it stop talking to me sitting acknowledged me nothing it like a four year When I was like Ooh and it was just so it was like dealing with that would then be questioned myself and feeling like I couldn't walk? My Dad like German military is really religious and other okay at that time he was not for any of that at all but he wasn't necessarily go deal. Chris is my brother. He necessarily care Alone a lot like we're feeling on Lo lot growing up that I wasn't understood our loved or care for and it wasn't an appearance I root for no have no 'cause like I see that you know not everybody has that but just as up for them and like cultivating like me knowing what I like and boundary things like that. None of that I was you know right. None of that Growing up the child and that kind of impact a lot about how you see yourself. How your world around you but you're willing to laugh and to And this is something that you know that looking back at my life. has there been there for years. L. Looking back on it. It was like well. No wonder I kind of Coppola way not saying it makes it right but it's not surprising you know because I didn't know how okay handling that stuff so I just hadn't now named it. The best way could so it would sued. It was something else and that's the other. Yeah no that's that's really something so your mother. Your father was very religious. Was your mother religious as well. Oh not at all well. So why do you think that she was So against your quietness. I don't think she didn't know what I feel like. I don't know if your parent but But I I and I'm not so I. Can you know we speculate. But I just think you have an idea of how you want your child to be you know and and I think whether you you need for that to be true or not. I think you do 'cause he's like you gave birth to the person you kind of want to like that and I think for my mom I would not what she you know and I think I didn't meet her like you know my brother needed her. It's my brother's got nothing wrong with that. You really live. Well No But I was very I was very independent and like trying to figure things out on my own. You gotTA. She didn't feel like I need her in that way. Which is funny? You Know My dad actually said that we on time. You're Montessori nothing. When I'm a kid I didn't do anything? How can you say? I didn't need her like you know. How am I going to get the formation or worried about this? You know all right but I don't know I'll invade interesting. I my my experience has been and and this is just my own experience. Oh this is the way that I see the world and on the I'm just talking about through my own lent is that people who are very religious will have that mindset that that people should not be queer okay or whatever however people wanna turn himself so Just very curious to me that and I guess I need to open up my is well. I am opening my eyes to realizing that everyone doesn't think like me but So just very interesting to me that someone who is not religious would would still have a problem with if someone being identified as Queer. What I think is like my mom is? She's from the south. I think it was a lot of things I think she. I wanted to get at me. 'cause she was really hurt. They said some things about her. I guess in the in my journal. I don't remember what I thought up quarter. I still have that journal. Maybe go but And I think she was really hurt by that and she couldn't talk about why I heard her feeling like what I said about her so she turned it turned it into that at that time and they would like that hat. Brawl your risk. Something wrong how could you. Because you couldn't address you said me. The it hurt my repealing why she can think so. She lashed out at me at something. That's she knew. I was insecure or I wasn't sure about in me about added that you know depend like against each thing deal so it sounds like your mother and you had a very toxic relationship and no seriously I mean I'm not trying to you know analyze on. Just just just. Yeah and so so so that's really. That's very actually very heartbreaking. But I think that it shows a pattern in what we WANNA talk about. It shows a pattern. Okay this Trauma Dhamma that you had about your own self image about the relationships you have with your mother and so it develops into this dangerous addiction in your your drug of choice. Choice was alcohol and mean. Because you know it's just like having fun. I am eight percent take I was. I'm just saying like I said I call myself awkward now but I think at the time Like I thought the bad thing now. I'm just like well. I find it endearing. UNROLL with no type of thing But it's one of the things but I think a lot my mind. It is like going and direction that learn. I'm like I questioned. If you don't and so for me having that they can introduce that. Ah lifestyle good. That could slow down. 'cause I'm all heart it's still I'm always like into different thing. I'm all you know and and I was like well now I just chill turn my mind off and kind of be more in the moment quote unquote. You know. You're not you're doing something something that takes you out of a moment if you think about. You don't remember you know two three four five drink. Anything shouldn't But you when you pull yourself saying like Oh this is what everybody's doing something And Yeah it was. It was something that and the thing about when it comes to like hall progressive. So let me think. Oh if it's not that it's not going to be bad but now if any thoughts and start you know we find for years and then GRANDPA that You can't especially a lot of things are happening. Thank you and your day to day life. You just don't know how you know and that's kind of what happened to me like throughout the course of my years. Since I've I've been legal really drink just like me going things whether it's like my stuff. A lot of it has to do like family in my romantic relationship Of been huge in that bunch of music really feeling but it had to be me like how I found myself and and like how I could say things or understand why billy certainly I would turn it into words myself And then not be able to boy at that in just a horrible person or they. I'm stupid or other. They're all the stuff that over and over and over and then not being able to. You see any way out of it but looking at stop and like I felt that going down the avenue the only way I could get it the stopper amount of pot but then thirdly but then shaping you know which is like the high you keep chasing and like the more that you do it like with anything anything. The more things are usually get that thing that thing so NEVER EARNING FICO man. Yeah niobe started to feel some trauma some stress in your life at age ten or so when fourth grade. When did you you have your first drink and when would you? When did you progress on there? I don't know I didn't you. Maybe eight hundred ninety like I guess. But it's still not bad. I think I was going with binge drinker and I did a lot of stuff like get high school college type of thing but then When my mom passed away on twenty three I do a lot of areas up? 'cause like my dad allo part part. I had really responsible at a young age. You know and kind of keep the family together and sacrifice. There's a lot of my own stuff to help the family which you know wasn't if they can do is felt like I should do it And I made one promised my mom but my brother. So that's another but I wasn't so I had my moment like my kind of really awful then and then. I think when I was in my thirties when you work my engagement woke up In my life I was like Jingle we Feeling so across the board like I wasn't Kinsley from work my relationship myself. I didn't know anything Me All think I have to tell you like I could think about me. You know what I want it it was I. Ah You know and I think that's when I started really getting into it. Maybe like my early Thirties Just because I I ate it live honest about it was there was nothing felt. Ah I should look for. So was there I mean. was there any precipitating events around the time that you lose a job or did did you You said your relationship broke up but was that the only thing that really kind of spark to where you started drinking more I mean I feel like I moved to New York. I didn't really have any contact during friends. You know so I think it was just feeling I had a slow down the first one is and like I said earlier. I'm very much a go. Go go like I'm a runner. You know I run from my feelings run from situations right like a kind of my mo than day and like New York. When I first moved here like I didn't know anybody didn't have much money like I kind of had to stop? I didn't have a job. I could prairie myself in her. You know I can deal with Hollick I didn't have anywhere to go so it was just me and I didn't like anything that feeling or seeing and then I didn't know what I'm feeling and then with my partner take time like ours. Situation is going to be the caretaker type thing like all this stuff. I got like like nothing like this is. This is what I want to be but at the same time I didn't think I had the power to change it. You know and and I didn't know what exactly I want to change and I looked and I was depressed. You know I got really depressed that year like over a year award depressed but I didn't have like stable health insurance fo L.. Second go to anyone that had a car fears and then my partner wasn't she wasn't really supported. I feel bad about that and I felt like I was in a lot of things I think. A lot of them are rolling around. And I didn't feel like there's any your pack of it. I think that when I started really using that Like going down that road to where she myself numb as much as they could because I know other outlet to really turn. Thank you that okay. So That's interesting. How did you know and you talked about this in some episodes? So let's get into a little bit of that. How did you know that you actually had a problem? I I had a how long like other people would say for me but I was like no I'm I for he kinda kinks here Because I was going through like a lot of course like my bait was really bad out a lot. 'cause I thought I was glad my friends go to the part that I like to go to get drunk munching and then I eat quarterly at night. And that's the way I broke up with my boyfriend earlier in that year. Maybe they'll read anything crazy but knox on both and Then being kind of like ah attracted to someone that didn't said my mo like how that can you and I think Not like that stuff happened. Probably I was in a job that I didn't really late and Dealing with my brother my brother. My roommate pro L. but he has a lot of issues and things but he doesn't know what to do within any job and I would hold a lot of his There's no I felt like well someone has to be that and I've always been like the court chaired Dickerson. And so I think there was a lot of that happening but I think meaning all that topic for the the drinking. But I wasn't aware of it but I think what really stopped me Really the fact that when I went doctor. And they're like something their liver like. I have the flu or something. Something like that and I didn't really go up like very mckeever W- break and I went to the hospital. They're all these techniques in the guy was full. Your liver. Enzymes are elevated of years all about having. Because that's my primary care doctor. She's like well what's up with this. This is really weird for your age for everything you need to have. It needed having have a fun aground. Cool and she's like he can't drink like you know she knew about late. Majoring changes between. If you can't handed and sure that's not a good deal and I will not lie. You know that did not happen. You know GEICO featuring every day up in the point to get my autograph so I think that was something that started. Like kind of semblance me symbolizing or signaling. This is not just something. There's there's no reason why I had to do that. You know. Did you tell your doctor that you drank up until the Sonogram okay. I mean obviously she had some words for you. Resume is completely. I mean I my thing Dr Mike maybe hair and my My therapist they my primary care. Take me like up del for like like. I don't know she read me Brookville Day and you know I let her and she's like trying in kill yourself. That's what you WANNA do. She was like on it now is like Whoa. I'm not expecting the phone primary care. I mean my co Pay Insurance Company Company and then I go you know type of thing and she wasn't like that at all but she was like Whoa this to me to be a Catholic Academy accountable to yourself right now that you're GonNa be accountable me and you know I really credit her off and my belt to on like last year. The person that I am becoming now for a personal this time last year. It's like night and day like I don't recognize Nei credit her a lot with that as I need macking my head and be kind of like a mobile to me you know now. Do you think that the role that she took that time that you think you're lacking that in your own relationship with her own mother when she was alive. Yeah Oh yeah I would I don't think I got any like that level of care like I didn't think lucky or like I think she loved me but I think she liked me early. Knew what to do with me like I think nurtured so And the doctor. I noticed that Ex. WHOA that Kinda guy needed on like hecker you doing Jean von like really trying to make up their own like that? What you WANNA do right now And it came at the time when I think I was questioning my home too so I was really you know and and really being able to outside of myself and my Ego d like. Yeah what I'm doing isn't helping me. It's not really helping my life like I don't feel better because I'm doing this So what does that mean you know. So that kind of like they helped me go through the whole like let me really valuable doing like how much money none of this is his last year. This is going on right. You said this last year okay. All right so let's talk a little bit about So your process out you up you go from here and you start on the process. You told a story I think in in your podcast that it was almost this year or like almost almost so new year's Day. Read this resolution where you said you had thirty days to thirty one days to do something in that. What's that that were January? Yes yes and that was just this past January right. I did one last year to kind of like doubled my way I barely got through Lou. It doing like February I happen. I would like picking back up a lot of stress at that time. What caused issue to relapse even like I don't really see like I wasn't trying to talk to? I mean it's sort of like I'm GonNa break you know I wasn't thinking doffing come. I WANNA quit ten times already. Kill like whatever But I like I like that worked out of place at that time different place than I'm working well but it was not a very good that for me and I think a lot. This is like my family. My relationships dress like I my boyfriend at the time. And she a good he was he not a great communicator And he's not from EMI goes out I don't know I'm not but like he's not a great communicator. I would say got then. I often at a great many theater Especially when it comes to like my needs wants and stuff. Like I couldn't keep articulate that and he would be able to articulate affiliated and his show and like anger and like huge shutdown and gaslight a lot and then. My mom used to do that right and and when that happened I would kinda panic and get all about it and my mom. Try to tease her and jumpers and like bill. She was loving and third doing the same thing again. You know and it was very interesting like you start really looking at your patterns not the back boy how you were raised and like how kind it shows up. But I was doing a lot of that stuff things that just wasn't aware that's what I playing out something from childhood And a lot of that stuff. That's happening around January February of the first time. I tried to Virginia so like I'm tired. Like February first happened suit. I'm tired of their Barry. Go here so all the stress at dealing with causing to say F. IT and yeah. Yeah yeah now. Did you struggle with any with any of your performance on the job. I mean or were you pretty outs- functional. I pretty much functional but I mean like I said we're GONNA advertise drinking enough a strange thing about advertising so how they all day all uh-huh advertising pretty much like you can have their copy ours is whatever you know. It's not like no. I would never like unhappy at work. I'm very professional and no issues or problems coming in late staying Passing out not missing deadlines and all that kind of stuff. I'm very theories that work did you. You're drinking would you go home and drink every single night or is it just a weekend or I would say I haven't drunk. I would drink everyday. Drink remained remain getting drunk however months it. I don't know I don't know I. I drink Dan. Did I tell you that I was getting like. Why trump every day no? I couldn't say that I know it happened more than it. Should I tell you that. I know that I personally drink alone. I didn't really get go out and doing are I would. I'm not much I would definitely be at home like eight night and and beaming. Thank you drink a bottle of wine on. I thought you know within two hours and yeah and then over the weekend sometimes at home like the entire and not really like you know go like got you come back and throughout all that you had no clue problem. Yeah and I'm not saying that in any type of judgmental type of thing I'm trying to trying to understand and this is what this is. What a lot of people do with I mean? It doesn't matter who or what profession you are. I mean people are subject to that so thinking about like aw alcohol and alcohol so trivialize in society. No one thinks about it. You're just like Oh and then the time you have friends friends that probably in the same vein you are. So you're just you're just with them so you don't think about like currently the last year I have regularly go within like that goes with our new drink like eight nine drinks tonight and I would have like not that mean like Oh they problem. I'm like I'm still with them every day. You know Duality that you kick yourself. It's like you know that I suffered moral and then a lot of my friends at they're telling people I met have and and so my life then like I never thought about it because we want a new around you doing right so I I want to get to some of the episodes at least two episodes that you that you really discuss. I really found him fascinating. But before we talk about episodes Korea podcast. I wanted to talk about how because I'm really fascinated about this. How you defeated or how you'd be or how you came out of that? Believe stage talk about that. I mean I I'm willing to people. You probably not GonNa like my one of these people that I believe we've been there. I don't know if you could other. They beat it. Be something like that because it could come back. You just not aware of it because it's just so go into like you are the person I think for me. It's a coping mechanism like and that's something that I have to always constantly keep at the back. They had the coping mechanisms. So like I and then I find myself because it can happen anywhere like I have to be cognizant even now ah day because I'm bored. Start like snacking eating something you know but it just boredom but then angry. I could like well. I'M GONNA go like I'm going to have like a batting. He'll or something because I wrote a man. I can't talk about that so I'm GonNa just that and so it's like you know a lot of how I it's up maybe do for software which is always fun. All thank God. No go ahead please. I was GonNa say we air but you also have to hold yourself. Countable is another thing that far and really that there and think about like hungry right around or you got going. There are only eat that with an angry on each other from four. Eat them you know. And it's like you know not really do and I think we're like you sit there and serious you make up. Something do unlike young bordering. Now I've walked up because there and I can have it and I don't pay for it I don't WanNa and sort of like because my thing is and then weren't really triggered food. Everything else are back back. You know like wanting to work out when he like the purchase off like I didn't take it by day and really where keep myself in that. That's not always fun. Some people are very limited in their ability in their ability to do that to hold themselves accountable. You are going to therapy as well as holding yourself accountable. Do you think the therapist and or the doctor that you talked about is helping you to hold yourself accountable. I think my doctor when she told me that day last year I think December commercials. And she's like you know you're going to be accountable me so you can learn to be all like that was like attorney going for me because it's so funny. 'cause they do that but I hope people elbow day. Like I'm like the Jew the same thing. Okay hold people accountable today like all day my own fault my what a so for her to put it on me out sort of say okay well you know. Also climbers like life isn't going the way it's not serving nothing. I'm doing it serving me so I need to try something different and so I think I have point but I think her she did because I would say. I don't know how he doctors since my therapist. Now I haven't chew really close friends one in particular. I've known her for years in college and she and I talked to each other like all day. And you know we're there's no mincing of words or no. I don't WanNa hurt your feelings because we know what the day you know And she was like that. She's she's like you know what I'm saying and heard the fact that I was like okay. Start really listening to people because it different than like within the span of a month. I three people telling thing so I'm going to living alone and try something different because my way working right. So you talked about Two episodes I you kind of want discuss very briefly is one is how guilt and shame impacts your life you talked about what that you dealt with your mother So just talk a little bit about that episode in how guilt and shame. Can I know it has a cyclical effect on people. Backley studied that when I was going the school so just talk a little bit about that now. Paul interesting the thing that you realize Europe had here certainly looking the guilt ashamed. I feel like it will be a lot of different or actively anywhere. 'cause I mean a lot of coping don't know what to do. You don't what you don't know you know a lot of active especially in the black community but we don't. We're not read anything like hindle. We just know a a lot of trauma he not all but like you know they're they're of it I just don't know the a positive way Emmett kind of manifest one feel and Shane and then within that you know it can show up and people like anger or depression. Whatever but Sir knee when I started really tackling my own stuff and seeing like I had a lot of shame about certain things whether it looks up my body about My the been out like about my sexual identity my Up about you know feeling second that all the time that you know I was telling my mom I always felt like a second then. I know very smart very independent. They need much you know. I wasn't a charismatic. Here's Matt against my brother so and people easier to deal with me. 'cause I to whatever you know a lot of like around not being like the perfect potter you know a lot of that and and I think when I really started like a lot of just why I ended ended up the situation and by the way that I did I had some really addressable that up and And like me like I couldn't address with my mom. She's she she's been gone for years now. But you know my dad. The privately showed up and did it with me and I didn't ask can do. You know He he was just say we're going to talk about all their you you know to it. He brought it up. 'cause he knew upset and you know and like I said on the other ones I good my dad ultimate Kudos from if you knew where he is like where he comes from. You would never think he'd have like to do that. And I. I would think that you'd never be able to try to be but he did it. You know and I I think that helps you see. It helps heal me. I think a lot of able to voice things able to do with their head. Give me thing. It's what I saw growing up right so growing up my dad. And he's like I felt that I wish I did. You know they or no or I can see where you're coming from and how you feel that way and I'm sorry. I wish I could have done things better. You know. He needles into the thing with it. Kind of really help me Like to turn in like put a lot of those things combat no And get them out of my head. Because I feel like a lot of times a lot of the guilt phase in your head like over and over again and you keep playing out there anything or keep showing up and certainly thank. You think it's GonNa result the time but it's not been that added back into the story of why you're saying bill pushing the second looking back the second back and then that three bro and in growing growing ninety two he gone all got someone else. That's not you But it all and then be able to have a dialogue about that kind of company earns it. They hope OPD mini things. And there's so much life but it didn't go anywhere. I didn't know how to get rid of it. So apply Coke in various book struggle manner and even kneeling even talk. They're just like you didn't talk about anything for like a year. Well So so guilt and shame has really really does present that cycle as as you as you're talking about many people have this guilt and shame but whatever they're they're they're a lot of times comes from religion but it could come from a number of other places places where they feel that they are unworthy they have body issues in Ed. This is that shame and guilt and all that kind of stuff and therefore they take some destructive behavior drugs alcohol sexual relationships and the and then that guilt and shame returns upon them because they feel bad about what they've done so therefore they self medicate etiquette to get rid of guilt and shame again and therefore the site will continues on continues until they come to the place. Where you have where you've actually broken the cycle and had the world's good positive conversation with your father and talked about all this stuff and Kinda had a I would say it could start kind of moment and got it off your chest you know? Let's Richman actually a lot of a lot of that stuff. Like my dad was keying but I did a lot of work conversation and I think a lot of it was the meat it like. I had to get there for you. I only people about you. Find Your Y.. You can't be because of your family you can't because we're a partner and he look it has to do for you because you didn't you know no one else can and it's not really get your heart and people don't WanNa do that. I don't want to admit that like you. You'd say like even when I was going through before everything they started the other side of it I felt bad about got myself right and learn more about myself and I was gonna go perfect but when he asked me like well. Why didn't you think you're a horrible person? I went there and be like well for both the. I didn't know working this when I was twenty cheated to all that you know I felt that. Are you know really Dan. Why you're feeling guys I you not you have to look at your action? mm-hmm look on what gates on three like it. It's not fun and had not tough also not easy people like Twain it. I don't think I cried here. I can't I at that crime at all like that. You know and and now crowds everything and he hit by some of the leading cause I feel like I can heal things but Like shoot like sitting with yourself. I mean have you sitting with my self self. Come terms of myself that really starts to feel free to tackle your parents or are your phone or whatever that we have to treat the personal then you have the right so you try to another episode. That you talked about was the whole a thing. How did that go did that? Work or is it effective as he still going or what's what's up with that go I started I feel about Was it editing and like I I don't have a sponsor At the beginning. That doesn't go. I think that that it's all about what works for you. A lot of people a lot of people. He'll that only one way to do things then line They could be about anything. Just actually with mine but There's just one way to do it. And I think that kind of people up for failure and they give them a little an element of two or shame about it was from you then. If I'm not stop the nothing worked for me. You know the thing that I feel like it works for you then by all means do it. It's working for me right now. In fact with it but I'm open to a lot of other different things like I think. Erkki Bernie you know then. Then I have. They're called on. I suck 'cause I need that you know and when it comes to getting clean and things like that there's so much out there you'd have to research and find we're fine. What group crew? Hopefully like I do online forum i. They're eating I. It's a one size fits all in. That's all I do. You know it can work like that for some people but for us. It's not how I process information So I try a little bit of everything and and keep doing what works. Best Bernie Mij- Ernie very nice very good good. So let's talk about your life today. You're going to therapy you are podcast cast host. You are writing and so the future is bright. So tell us about what you're writing and what we what we can expect from the podcast injure. Oh yeah so. I write a lot for like irate pulling working already right back scripture like teen and like teachers there's a lot of it is based on the stoorikhel painting parts of history What I think at Phnom or whatever but I usually go through the lens of a like a caller male or female Just like little known fact about history. That may not be well. No I'm a history person and I'm I'm sorry you said you voted for TV TV and film again. I just been published. We've seen any of this stuff or talk about it. Okay okay. That's what I do decide. Okay are you trying to get trying to get it released on an extra what I am trying to get public and trying to get it wrapped. I'm trying to do a lot Things have it out Q Egypt right now. It's like things are in the works but nothing in this game. It's like a waiting game so they say and you can't just go to try different things so I'm working on Pot why I am looking to really connect the just People in their state. I really want to I've I'M GONNA turn. Did you really connect with a lot of People are now you know that has either having history of trauma or Dick Origin or the background. And there's still bill after becoming the show interviews about that I think here who says I did. Jerusalem she's working now but she had Yeah Oh yeah interview. I also interviewed another woman who I knew are let in now shut which took her mother. We're talking about that I think I really WANNA try to have conversations around things that people may not feel so comfortable but not like the controversial or aggressive manner. Is this more of just like the white you know it may not not directly but you probably know someone you know and like. Why don't we talk thing? Why don't we work on healing instead of just keep pushing the Dow passing it on to generations like to talk about it? But let me ask you why why I mean you say people of Color and I I want to. I want my audience to be everyone. Obviously but so is a reason that you want to reach out specifically the people of Color. Why why would I like? We have a a Lotta Insurance Juries intergenerational trauma you know I feel like I am I I totally down and I do. I have fans that are not people calling Tokyo that great but I also feel like just for me like you know I meant like I was. It's not like I'm talking during the so. I thought loan on my life. I didn't feel like I grew up in arenas and even fees are like I. I think out whether I want not in my you know feeling Michael Like your old so much unique. I need you to one of the like like a lot of units. That are What will Egypt because of just like how how fighting has then worked? You know and I don't think me we were ordered are getting opportunities to learn how to cope in a easier More the reflective manner you know oh now becoming a thing for especially Lapworth talk about mental health. Is that it now becoming a thing but you know that do we really. I think that's the case you know but if you look at what's happening incarceration like obvious trauma like why don't talk about it. You know I think just for me I keep people within my own medium people that too badly. I WanNa talk about it from not you but a woman I mean I think that easier than I can anything else And I think the kind of like I really WANNA help like the start to think about what we feel and at the time but if it grows up out of that Google have it do it. But that's initially why I wanted to start. I felt like someone going to I was going through. I didn't see anyone like that in the base that I could do. Yeah okay so I appreciate you coming on the show. You are certainly a positive role model to those who are going through stuff. I WanNa remind the audience that you You know you're college educated You started to develop your issues As far as excessive drinking post thirty years old so to all those listeners out there who may be dealing with some trauma some stress look to Cynthia right for some inspiration and thank you so much become a captain hunters podcast. I enjoyed your story. Thank you so much for sharing. Thank you for having me here. It was fun. I'm glad so looked to have you again soon in here about next time. We'll talk about one any a book that's been published or something some documentary for net flicks or something like that. We look forward to that. I'm into all type of thing the great So we'll have a bunch of times. He talked about a bunch of different stuff. So all right. Thank you. So much for being a captain hunters podcast. Thank you so much once again. Your podcast is called getting your together. Make sure you guys subscribe share in like it. That's okay all right. Thank you once again to my special guest. Miss Cynthia right host of getting your together podcast. Once against Tailbone Buzz Sprout Pandora itunes soundcloud. She's on twitter with getting your ish G.. G. E. T. T. I. N. G. Y. O. U. R. S. H.. Touch our twitter handle. It's also at getting your I. S G The h together and you can find our link tree and Getting your together. That's once again. It's S. H.. Star Star T. together. Also if you have a friend or family member WHO's dealing with some type of substance abuse there so many resources available out there right. It's so if you're dealing with it if you have a job where you can call your employee assistance program e AP or some similar type of organization. Make sure that you give them a cough off You know once again this the only way to true freedom from addiction is for you to recognize it for yourself and for you to take that step out there and do something about it so this is the substance abuse and Mental Health Services Administration The US Department of Health and Human Services that the S. A. M. MM-HMM H. S. A. Dot Gov Samhsa Dot Gov once again you can call your e ap you can also go to alcohol that Org. Gee that's helping an alcoholic alcohol dot. Org and you can just google the stuff right. There's so many resources out there people who are dealing with alcoholism or you're dealing with other type of harder drug or you're dealing with mental health depression issues so there's a lot of help out there. Ladies and gentleman laments who chose to give those services a call. I like to thank once again from mis. Mis Right for being on the capital Hunters podcast. Please make sure that you check out. Her podcast subscribe to it like could share it. Please much support podcast. Once again capital Hunters podcast on Patriot on C. AT CPT l.. Hunter for up cash up Ben Mo for pay POW that financial support. Please make sure that you rate subscribe and that you share this episode. In all other episodes you can follow me on instagram. Cpt Al Hunter twitter handle is at CPT l.. Hunter captain l hunter distinct about that. And that's that's it ladies and gentlemen until next time much love and peace.
Cynthia Bailey & RuPaul - 01/20/19
"Welcome to the Bravo. Clubhouse for the podcast division of watch. What happens live with me? Andy cohen. Her friends can be energy sucking. And he's made an empire out of wigs and talking it's once when I was Scindia Balian rupaul now. I am your host sandy Cohen live in our LA. Bravo clubhouse with the legendary drag icon and a woman who's friends are legendary at dragging each other from the real hot sides of Atlanta's say hi to the always glamorous suppo super Cynthia Bailey. Schering tonight. And he is the EMMY winning hose to Rupa's drag race whose newest season of all stars is leaving us constantly gagged. Welcome back Rupe. You know, each other for how long ago that was thirty years ago. We do that did a photo shoots. He got New York City years ago. David Lachapelle wall while. Yeah. It was it was it was a crazy photos to because David LSU about these bubbles blowing and this loud music blaring. He wanted his excitement. It was a nightmare. Right. It was a lot going on. You might recognize his voice as my co host on Andy Cohen live, and as those of the fields on radio Andy tonight, I have a his voice and the rest of him buying the bar say, hi, Emma may, and Ma friend John L eight John. Today. John. I gave you an assignment you were gonna come up with a view housewives tag lines for my baby. So give me one. All right. I'm a baby. Okay. You'll never catch me spilling tea because I can't goddamn talk. I want to get started first of all the last Thursday, Chrissy Teigen and John legend, gifted me, an amazing milk shot ski, and it found a home on her set just wanted to show you. Excited tonight ladies arrived in Japan. But when they landed poor Marlow discovered, she was a fashion diva with no fashioned check, this out nine a Milos banks maids is about to be Beppe Indian. Does he have any flat shoes 'cause I can't wear these sales? Margaret Alec y'all. Like, y'all my bag someone could at least exit on you the ordering a rubber band. There's nothing. No one called Martin deodorant pans. I had no Bronx girl, your wig is loose. And you don't have your suitcase. Okay. I mean, I actually I kind of enjoying this little story of Marlo not having that. No. It was great. And I felt so bad for her. Because the problem is with Marlow is she only wears designer clothes. So I had like all my stuff from like norstroms wreck TJ max, I was like what you want. What you get. I mean, I'm assuming this is a designer. Oh, well, this is actually Pucci. Would've wanted tomorrow? Say both of your shoes or matching to tonight share. Share horseshoe. Does not like that has been forgetting her shade. But tonight, it was Porsche's forgot fullness that came off a little shady Cynthia. I want your thoughts after this watch thinking about getting. While I'm here in Tokyo within the match. Most. W H L V for pool we wanna know Porsche forgetting Mike's name, shady or forgetful was she being shaded grouping forgetful. Oh, you do about Michael so much. There's no way the Porsche. Can't forget Mike today. She was being shady, you know, they say when you're pregnant you lose your memory like I'm gonna cop looks at about fifty. Oh, you guys are going for forgetful on this. All right, there you go first. Okay. By the way tonight on tonight's. How size of Atlanta even Porsche had an argument that got super petty. Here's what by petty. I mean, there was a lot of talk about pets for some reason. Watch. Porsche I feel like you. And I started to get to know each other. You studied on me a little bit out of nowhere was like eve. Are you shading? I thought we were friends don't act like I'm coming at you. I specifically remember you shading Cynthia shimmy instance, that was another one you literally talked about Shamir like adult so what I'm gonna do fight. What a washing pregnant. I heard is you talked about me like a cat. Less than a dull. Nobody tells you talk about you like a dog. I like gaining. The two also Marlow Marlow picks fights with everyone about their clothes, which I find very. Because she wants to talk about clothes, you know, because she's obsessed with clo. Yes. And why not yes? Secondly, these tagline this season is I am the glue for my wig and by family, but here's. War glue because onto a good tagline. Right. Okay. On tonight's Atlanta, eighty came undone take a look and feel like ringing in the best place. So I definitely some space from Greg and having a moment with my girlfriends, I talked to my husband. The thought he knows the couple spat at Glock and need to get through the telephone. Life partner, we will be together until the end Terrail very lightly onto the end. What does that mean? Nothing. Please don't take you about your marriage because I want you to be happy. Thank you. I do not all I'm saying is the joke in the spiritual Tampa a joke here. You might. I don't give thinking I'm holding them of as some point. I see somebody come home. Here does have a right to be pissed about this. Well, you know, what being there and watching them back, Andy, honestly, I didn't feel like when Nina said at the time that it was really shady because no one needs to be in shade. Going to get married back. Then we brought up the whole mirrors thing tan you so it's kind of a sensitive subject for her. So I could see what she would be sensitive. God it finally rupaul may have launched the careers of over one hundred and twenty drag queens on Rupa drag race. But when it comes to the often bleak news of today can drag out some positivity. Here's what we're gonna find out with rule assure us, I'm gonna go through some not so fun current events route tell us why it's all going to be. Ok okay. I look to you for my up beer advice. Lou to your wellbeing. My win your wig. What Ruash shirring thoughts can you pass along about the government shutdown? Well, it's happened before and the truth is that the pendulum always swings back and forth right now just happens to be swinging to the other side. Okay. It will swing back that ruin suring thoughts, can you share with Megan Markle stands amid rumors that she is difficult to work with and his causing havoc. And she is with child and the truth is all these people spend all these rumor about it. They the problem, you know, people wanna talk this. You know, if they pan you'll bills, pay them bitches, no mind. What ruin shirring advice you those of us concerned by Trump's affinity for Twitter. Rans, you know, it will be his undoing. So if you don't like his ranch. No that that if you live by the sword die by the sword. What Rouge during vice you for MacKenzie base, so stirring, her divorce from billionaire Jeff Bezos, think of the money, darling. Yeah. Okay. What ruin suring advice you up for me as I prepare to become a first time father. Well, just know that this child has chosen you. I'm getting choked up even thinking about this child has chosen you to be the daddy. And so no that you just have to show up. This child knows all about you use have to beat you baby. Robin. All right. Let's go to the phones. It is Tyler from Chicago eight Tyler what your question. Hi, everyone. My questions for Cynthia Cynthia did Mike hill. Call you out when you said you made homemade guacamole, but we also you take it out of it. Out of what's so funny. Actually, most reached out to me, and they want me to come to internet locations and teach me how to make the guacamole got. So and I'm actually going to go because they make great Mike kill see that. Well, we saw when we showed shell. I mean, you didn't have problem with until you saw it on the show. Hi tweeted wants to know if there has been an elimination or decision on drag race that you now think you would change you know, all these season. I I'm not a dragging. I'm the Queen of drag. Stand. Cynthia. Tanya WTVN wants to know how bother you that doesn't seem to understand that you had to boss up and make your own lane in the modeling industry. Well, you know, here's the thing. And I like EBA I really do. I just you know, though, she's thrown a little shade. I don't really feel like after validate my career to her. I just don't like it is what it is. I own it. I I know what I did. I mean, anyone that knows about the industry knows? You know, I was like, you know, in my Uganda, boys. I was bitch. Oh, by the way, Marlow tweeted. There's nothing wrong with Nordstrom rack now Cynthia Bailey who doesn't want to save a little toy. On next week, sit Marlowe and Eva one of throw each other under the bus, literally. Here's a sneak big. Driss neo. We can be cash casual hockey. Got you all the way and I'm in runway right now. Stop maybe not runway. Now, you just got the blog. We'll be going to do is lead by fashions along on tours. Here's the Santana town. Ow. What are you? I have one land nothing. And that will fit you wear. That's about what we got sitting back. Who? Look like a long bus ride. Just watching the show. Let's go to Adam from Boston. Hey, Adam what your question? Hey, Andy, my questions for rupaul looking like a dream in cream. I wanted to know if if any of your drag race cleans was gonna are going to be on AJ and the Queen on your new Netflix show coming out, actually, they are we filmed a lot of we're doing scripted show on Netflix agent clean. I'm I'm shooting scene with some girls tomorrow, but you have to watch it to see who it is GE Lenz. Went snow rupaul. How often do the drag race contestants hook up with each other? Or the crew guys offscreen? Do they ever know that does not happen? That's called Kaikai. You know that Andy right Koci when to queens hook up and do things it's called Kaikai. I did not know. Yeah. Well. All right. Let's go to dominate from Ohio for question. Verse India Bailey, which questioned on the Nick. Hi, cynthia. I love you so much, you're so fears. I wanted to know that you think that you and Michael ever move to the state city. And if you think you might get married. Yes. And yes. You talk about we'll talk about marriage all the time. All the time. I'm gonna lay now this is Mike city. I spent a lot of time in LA. And yes, I do I can confidently say that Mike, and I will be getting married. You would leave? No, no, no. I said lovely Billy. And so does Mike, but I think I would be in LA more fulltime neighbors feel about you calling. Lake Bailey aware that you've changed the name ask them if. I just wonder how they feel about technically the part of the lake this in front of my property is like all right? Rue Jackson with a bunch of numbers after tweeden wants who is your all time favorite Queen to ever compete on drag race. Do you? Well, they must have a couple of do have favorites. Truth is, but I can't see in public because they're all my baby's father. You know? Yes. You know, what chose between your dog who you love and your baby, you know, it's going to be hard. So you though, what if the dog is jealous of the baby. Have you talked to anybody about that? I've talked to the dog about it. And he's. Dog's name walkup walk. Yes. He's going to be. Okay. Okay. Now, you know, I did I did bring a gift for the bay. I heard that the baby is a boy. So I brought it a doll rupaul. Doll was true. Yes. That's all. She said somewhere around here. Somebody's going to bring the we'll bring it out to see it. Right. You're going to get one. Oh, good. Awesome needs a doll to play with. It is game time everybody as. Stateful Marlow has a lot of baggage with the ladies. But on tonight's episode as we talked about her actual baggage didn't make it to Japan, but it did make it here in Los Angeles. So it's time for what? Cynthia you're gonna put on these Ramona is. Has been rerouted to the clubhouse ru is going to unpack in describe some Amar lows items for you if Cindy guesses six right in sixty seconds. You both how easy and okay. This something that the Queen puts on her head is made of jewels. Pram? Yes. And this is something that is synthetic connec Alon is a of we attract a full count. Yes. And this is something that it starts out as a cucumber. But then they put it in vinegar. And what did you call me? And then it's called a a green, and it's edible and it used to be afraid you comebacker. Yeah. These are things that you up, and this is something that you massage. This is something that you saw massage between me down there. Yes. This is something if you're hot you open it. Yes. On your feet. They're they're they're they're payroll for your feet how she but for dressing up they taller, and they have a yes. Yes. John you of dome the rupaul del back are there. It is. Thank you very much for the baby. Boy here. Let's open up. See? I Anna Ross. From diana. It is John John give me one more tagline baby. All right. Okay. I always get what I I'm sorry. I always get what I want. And if I don't. Poop, my pants. Let's go to Jeff from Ohio a, Jeff what's your question? Andy of same day. You look Greg on my question is for mother rule. We'll wait George tagline be if you are a housewife. Oh, my I know my tagline mine would be don't let the smooth taste fool. Ya y'all hungry. Lily of what's of care that Nina and Greg still have a relationship with Peter. Or does it not bother? You don't care at all Luke and emailed Cynthia. Do you think Eva forgets her shade? Or is she phony. Well, I don't know if she. Well, that's kind of tricky, basically. I wanna call girl phony. But she definitely seems to be forgetful with Nick g ask Roo if Britney Spears is really going to be a guest judge on season eleven of drag race. I cannot deny nor confirm. I wanna take Cynthia rupaul. The fun continues with Scindia Bailey and rupaul. On the brand new show the world's best premiering February third right after the Super Bowl. It's all stars. It's hosted by James court. It's like America's not talent. But bigger, basically, we're on the world world's got talent. And it's you faith hill, and drew Barrymore the judges and James corden hosts it it's gonna be great Bina bar. It is John hill from the radio. All right. Let's go back to the phones. Caller. What's your name end from? Where are you calling? My name is Cynthia. Hey, what you calling from Champaign? It's I tell you Cynthia it looks like you were kinda disappointed. When your bow ask you to be his lady were you disappointed because like you were waiting for him to give your proposal. Well, I was you know, my cat. You know, told me that he wanted to talk to me and asked me something in person, I didn't really expect it to be a proposal. I guess I just thought it would be more of a like pre-proposal lake. I want you to be my lady officially, and then I wanna marry you just wanted that marrying part to be as well. All right. You kinda got the equivalent of a friendship. Back to the phones caller. What's your name? Where are you calling? I I know is more garland. I'm from the Bronx or all ride the boogie down Bronx which question. My question is I pull hi book down. Only small is gonna always long as your outfits are always fabulous have ever considered coming out with a skin care line or quoting a lot. And you have a model view. You know, that is a great question. You know, I'm coming out with some new makeup in. I think X month. I think is next month. Yeah. So yeah. Keep a lookout for that. It's going to be great. And it's I'm I'm. I'm partnering up with Malley, you know, Malley Ronco. Yeah. We use products. All the time. I use Nellie Mae collie. I shine the face defender. Exactly. Yeah. So I'm I'm working with her. So thank you down Bronx. All right next. Call caller what your name from where you calling. Hi, this is Noel from South Carolina and voice on radio. Thank you very much. Yeah. You gotta have some South Carolina housewives going on. And root rewire. Absolutely love you and Cynthia. My question is for you. You're so wonderful. Thank you. I've watched the housewives, you know, all this time. And I wonder if you could think of one thing throughout your career during the housewives that you could change in an incident or anything that happened. Maybe what would that be? Wow. A lot things. Probably you know, I try to live my life without regrets. And I really feel like everything that has happened to me on my journey was a necessary for me to be able to appreciate all the great things that I have going on now. So I really don't have any regrets. But it is painful to watch some of the things that I've done on the show for sure. Back to the phones. Caller. What's your name end from where you calling? Hey, this is calling from union New Jersey and have a question for Ribaut. Okay. What was the best part about working on Grayson, Frankie? And also who is the bigger diva lily Tomlin are Jane Fonda. Oh, that's a good question. You know, the whole time I was doing my scene. I'm in grace and Franky for this new season that just came on today's ago, the whole time and do seen Andy I'm doing the acting thing. Right. The whole time, I'm doing my scenes in my mind. I'm thinking, oh my God. That's lily Tomlin. Jane fonda. You know? Oh, an actor prepares an active. No, that's. James bond. I'm saying these words to so there was no diva stuff, but they hold their own. These are ladies fifty plus years of the business. I don't know how long they've been stars and still show up to work every day. I should be so lucky. Last call that I call her. What's your name? Where are you calling? I am a larger taking. Hey elisha. What's your question? Question is year. Room was the last time CENA spoken, the king and heavy met her baby. Yes, I absolutely have met Brooklyn and she's beautiful so adorable and actually spoke to Kenya about three days ago. All right. So ru is the series done. No. We are. We we start episode seven tomorrow got it. Yeah. So hardest thing I've ever done Andy really most. But the most rewarding thing too because you know, you live in this life, and you put up all these walls to protect yourself. So you can go forward. This. Call me to tear those wall. Tear those walls down. And it's it's scary. But it's rewarding because you know, you don't have you don't eat those walls anymore. How many are you making? They're going to be ten. They have ours. They're an hour. An I'm working with the kid scripted and hour's show and have a pages a day to remember yesterday. I had just done dragging dancing in drag. It every episode with his Queen who's driving cross country with this little girl. You're in dry every episode. I'm in drag it every sometimes to drag numbers every episode, and that got loud, these lines and on Dragway, the most difficult thing for me to do on that show is to come up a new way to say bring back my. Oh god. The most difficult thing is coming up with how am I going to say it because I got that. In fact, for people out there watching where we're filming right now we filmed drag race here on the on the sound stage for about two maybe three years in the same spot here in LA his. Cynthia how you know. It was interesting to me because you get this speech from your guide in Tokyo, saying lateness doesn't work in Tokyo. And this winds up being a big kind of kind of through lying. It's very disrespectful. Just in general, especially in the Japanese culture. Yes. Were you late now? Famous on time. The other girls they were on sale. Well. All right. Gonna take Cindy a revolver, John hill. Tonight. Everybody. Thanks for listening to the podcast everybody. Hope you enjoyed the show. Remember, new episodes? Go live Monday through Friday at four PM eastern time. Make sure you're subscribed to have a great rest of your night.
Finding Love through Grief with Cynthia Mitchell
"Could you ever see yourself giving away the business that you run to someone else. Not selling it but just giving it away outright. In today's episode of love engage our guest author. Cynthia mitchell actually did just that and she's going to explain why along with telling us a little bit about journey that she has been on and when you're done listening to this episode make sure you head over to live. Love engage. Book dot com. Where you'll be able to pick up. A copy of my new book. Lived love engaged. How to stop doubting yourself and start being yourself. It's only ninety nine cents for a limited time and now on the show. Welcome to live. Love engage the podcast will reshare practical advice from a spiritual perspective how to create a life and business with more impact influence and income. I'm your host. Gloria grace rand the inciteful copywriter and founder of the love method. My mission is to help you stop doubting yourself so you can live fully. Love deeply and engage authentically. Nama stay an welcome to live. Love engage. I am gloria grace brand and day. we are going to be talking about think of little bit about love and loss and business and all sorts of things. Actually i think. And i think it's going to be an interesting conversation I'm delighted to have a guest on the program today. Her name is cynthia. Mitchell and sa- first off welcome to live love engaged. Cynthia anc you be here. Yeah while i'm glad to have you we We connected through. I'm not even sure. And i try to remember i. It was publicity summit or something. Yeah and which was really interesting experience. i got to be pitched for folks to be on to be to conduct a yeah exactly so which was cool also Since he was one of the people that we connected. And salami tell you a little bit about her and why. I thought her story would be really great for this program so she was a hairdresser and a business owner who really gifted her successful company to an employee in two thousand sixteen and she's also an author. She's written two books when you think about it and the day my world stopped and I know that that second book. I believe is about what happened to her in two thousand six when she lost her only child. Brianna and dowd. Yeah in an instant her life stopped and all of her goals changed and I know I don't have personal experience with directly however my mother lost her son My brother died when he was thirty. Three and i know how that affected her. So i can only imagine how it affected you. cynthia and but one thing he did for her was that she became obsessed with finding proof of eternal life and she's even had the good fortune to be interviewed by none other than jack canfield the author of the chicken soup for the soul series. And he actually referred to her as a scout because she ventured into territories most explore and and now she actually composes little nuggets of thought and post than daily on her facebook page which is called eternity scout. Cynthia mitchell and i'll make sure i have linked to that in the and the show notes later But essentially her mission is to eliminate the unknowns and fear surrounding death to allow the light to shine again and that is a wonderful wonderful mission to have in life. And i'm really glad that you're here To talk about talk about all those things. So i think Let sure where we should start exactly. But maybe we'll start with. Let's start with a business. He stuff i and then maybe delve into the other So how and why did you wind up. Actually gifting your company away unusual. Most people don't do that told me but it was. You know everything changes when when you lose most important person in your life. She was my life. And and everything about me. Changed on my priorities on my girls and I lost her in two thousand six. But i you know. I continued running the business for another years but that was that was because of an amazing people that work for me and held me up. They took care of metering. Dr our really. Dr allison my life and the transformation but as as my mission you know as as an expanded and i wanted to start bringing this message app to be gone helping other people not feel. That seem devastation. I felt It became more and more time consuming. And i'd always spelt that any decision. I made in business in iraq. Really that everybody had to win. Couldn't just be a one-sided decision. And i could tell that i was neglecting my business because of where my mission lies so i held a meeting and talk but everybody about it tonight. Show one with their help to turn the business over to. I knew i was putting a business into the hands of someone who had not. I mean i grew into. I had some people at the time and and she would be taking on pretty big responsibility. So i didn't hang in there burning or years just i two days a week. I was employee action. That was an interesting thing after being the boss and now being the c and and she's done a wonderful job and now i have fully retired. am completely involved with helping to get this message and have written two books. Yes as you said. And i wrote the first one a power within it on time to do the research i did but hurry within but i wrote it in two thousand fifteen so i gave me. I mean i was studying things like quantum world energy and consciousness dinner from here dresser that a little bit work so anyway. That's kind of already dead. In the day my world stopped decor since it just more in depth. People wanted more which was interesting. They wanted and more in depth explanation for instance of energy and the quantum world consciousness. All those things so well. So how did you get down that road. What was what was sort of the the first step i guess. Maybe they kind of lead you into starting to explore those subjects because it's definitely not usual Experience of someone who has gone through loss. Now it was an interesting bain. Because i when i lost ray i wasn't sure if there was a god and certainly lost faith in religion in eyeball so i knew that i wasn't going to get any comfort there but in desperation i sir raise my hands in the air and said where is my brianna. Where is she and you know the next day. I walked with this urged. Drive up to our cabbie brian. I had a cabin together and It was our place. And i did not never wanted to go there without again at here. This urge was and it would not go away and so i finally got him retired. Not there opened the door and of course she wasn't there like at bushey. Hope she might be but she wasn't. I walked through. And i knew we had books. I started looking around at the books. And and i happened to notice a book i'd never seen before written by medium to markson it. Wander loss wanted her children and they were the kind she would always use a little sticky notes. And i knew that was that was where i was supposed to start a new. That was the book. I was supposed to find and not knowing much about them. I began reading about them. Your death experiences and and past life stories and anybody that had anything to say about them. mass It's it's so interesting. Because i experienced something similar in away because when my sister passed away the end of two thousand sixteen and she lived in arizona mb and she had a lovely book collection a lot of different fridays of books. And so i went through and just pick some that. I thought would be interesting to read later. You know inches packed them up. Took them back home with me and It was probably about couple months later. I decided to just look through my bookcase. And just kind of take a look and see what the heck did i even bring home. And one of them was a book called grieving mindfully and i was like thank you kayla. That's interesting 'cause i was. I was really struggling with with grief at that moment. And that is one of the books among many that i she while that i took That have really been interesting for him. A lot of them somewhere deepak chopra books and and just car cartel and and just a lot of different things that i've been working my way through and but it is interesting. How i definitely do think that We're connected and there's energy You know it just takes different forms so tell me a little bit about I guess maybe what prompted you then to actually start writing writing about yeah brighter. That's the interesting question. Because i mean i i knew it i wanted to do with my life. And that was the air grocer and but museum bree said changed everything and When i discovered the things that i dare and the fears that i had i were were leaving me with each page that i turned you know sports and i felt i just had to tunnel keep i knew i had so many people. At that time they will come to me and say i lost my son or my sister lost her daughter in all those kinds of things and i thought so many people could use the information which is and then. Of course my grandson. He didn't know his mommy never matter you saw his six months old when he when she left and i want him to know her. Yeah so that's how i got started. I talked a little bit about her and also gives them the comfort one day when he was old enough that he would see his mom again and be with her and know her So that's what prompted that i Yeah i never wanted it to be about read for sadness. It was basically An introduction into the quantum world we are we really are so so what have you. What have you found. Especially because i've done some reading a little bit and myself but i'd love to know from your perspective. What have you learned. And what is important for us to know I think the first thing that happened to me. While i was read without first moment that you might say yeah i remember getting in school. We learned you know at were made about. Its but when. I began to realize and understand that adams are made of energy. I knew that we were actually made a fantasy. And and so. The conservation of energy clearly states that energy not be created or destroyed. It can only change arm. And i knew from that moment that brianna energy was still there that she was still there so and and just in a different farm and that's kind of was mike first aha moment but of course every moment i had to out this journey lead me damore questions. According is so what about your consciousness. I mean energy is there. But is there the essence of who my daughter watts and so that led me into kind of studying consciousness. Bright date that might come from suggest raising questions in may. So what if you have you found. Yeah well everything you read is. Nobody knows. You know everywhere. It isn't every as non-oil is that in the brain or and of course i began to study on power of thought because i knew that Thoughts kind that that the energy around us we can create with our thoughts. And we know that's true and thoughts and i asked consciousness so i began thinking consciousness. An energy need each other. Their heart of one another you know energy basically just kind of vibrates off there with our direction of some kind consciousness. Is that direction. So they are hand in hand or an integral part of each other. Which led me to ben believe and no way you know that brianna and her consciousness locked hand in hand into that other realm they we cannot exist about it. Except you know in just a state of mj and that rumor more than Do you think that there is a way for us to be able to them. Contact that energy of you know to be able to tap into that consciousness now when someone is gone. Oh yes. there's many accounts of people having been able to do that. And you know. And as i said i didn't know much about mediums better and i and i really don't. It's not like i. I rely on mediums for anything. But i i. I saw appreciate the work that that these lobby people do. In trying to bring are lot once forward to us and we all have that ability but of course it's after feed over the years. So i did i visited i. I've been to medium. I think three times now in i bring on his own some interesting banks to stage me and the interesting thing about this is that Their personality through namrata had kind of a sark casting of talking to me. You know and anyway she. She set one of the first things that i bet she said to me. Mom you're reading too much. And i said no. I'm not in the medium goes. Oh no she says you are and of course. I was devoured books. I mean i was reading free on time music. Nari everybody around me and everything around me just consumed with reading. I knew what she meant. I knew she was right. And i knew what she meant that i needed to spy. I needed to pay attention to everybody. Else who mr and cared about and cared about me. Because they were also concerned about this person used houston know who's buried in a book. That was a really interesting connection and then I asked you know why why should game. And she said that the medium true the medium. She said she came teach. You unconditional love. And i thought how could that mean i. I love everybody you know. Maybe that's just the can down. Sir they tell everybody. But i began to investigate on additional vibe in that open ho ever arena. I knew that that's what she wanted me. Learn bounced unconditional. So it was. Yes i know we talked. I know that. I i knew it was heard by some of the remarks that she made. Packing medium even started laughing. Wow i really. I really makers right out their all india yeah. It's it's interesting i think. Part of what. I'm even finding fascinating is in doing this. Podcast as just been opening my eyes as well just to meet lots of different people. I've had a. I've had mediums on the program before as well There's so much we don't know and yet so much we do now. And i think a lot of it is really intuitively. We do now. You know we we. We know in in our hearts. We are just Condition than and the culture. You know. it's like oh they all do stuff you know it's it is it's love it really comes down to being being love and i like how you said that are going to be a third book do you think. Is that where you're headed. Actually think well. I have a couple of things in mind. I i've actually been thinking of writing book about fear anglo listened cucaracha. There were only two emotions. The world fear lob every beaming. Any motion comes from those two major emotion. So i've been thinking about writing a book about that which had a real interesting. Because i know i know. There's some controversy bear and that's kind of that's kind of fun for me anyway That and then also a little nuggets of five people have been really enjoying non saipan about doing my copy of orca view. As i've got like i do four hundred. I've got a lot. I won't do a four hundred page book. But i'll pick a few you know assad been thinking about doing that so Yeah you know. I mean once you start i you can't stop and i just want. I want this message to get out. I just want everybody to know that we are equally and eternally and unconditionally. Then it's being on anything that aren't she'll remain capable roar understanding. I think until you really investigate of meaning unconditional So i yeah i. I can't stop. I will never stop you know. My you know pioneer my ben still preaching. That's good to say it's so so what what is that. What is your definition of. Unconditional love i believe. Unconditional love has no conditioner. And when i thought about it. And i thought i loved brianna unconditional each day because my daughter loved her condition going nothing she could do make not welker but the fact is i had little i did have. I did expect the stronger i expected. You know i. I expect expect good grades from her because she expected herself but But i do expect her to kind of follow certain parameters in rules and things like that and that parents naturally do you try to teach them all the right moves right. Might say so. We have expectations. Unconditional love has no expectations. I mean absolutely nothing. Expect nothing from your how strange. How strange for human bill we do that. So that's funny one kind of love. That can do that and that's alive. It's about murtaugh. Loves office. Mike conditionally so i i yeah conditional by it's It's a it's just a. It's where i know everyone goes to heaven it can't do anything else. I'm conditional couldn't do anything else. Mary else to happen. Even our pets. Yes also hard for people to accept that might be in my other book to notice on your website that you had something mentioned about heaven and hell and that you don't believe in hell so i wanted to see if you could expand on that a little bit And west a little bit of what you said you Osama internet about yeah our website. It says something about heaven hell and so to get. Yeah while what your feelings were about. the concept of global. I grew up. You know you're all going to go to hell. You know you know. I studied other religions. Every religion believes there is a hell. And i i saw i kind of i research you know. Or what is their you know. Equivalent to that or whatever but i also at the same time i should. I shouldn't investigate the origin of. When did that i appear In the bible courses it appeared as the name shaul it was called show which was a face for the dead there was no judgment there it was just everybody went there good bad everybody and then you know. The bible was translated. Several times growing reg- had only twenty two consonants. No vowels in that were when when a greek hat your came up with their capillary abounds and so they transcribed it into into integrate and the greek change. The word show tahiti's what hate is was the god of their underworld so now sure became kind of a dark place for people are evil people and and you know this is i have no facts to back this up but you know. I began to sneak about that. Why did it become a face of eternal torture. You know how did this space be base torture and realize that The christian people were were crucified. They were hardly treated. When when christ i curse died and They had been promised a rapture to remove them from all this and that didn't happen right so could they have been been told well they'll get their as in the end. Don't worry i'll get there in the end. Because i mean this has been going on this. This persecution have been going on for years. Wasn't like it was just a few years so they had lost their loved. Ones all does so. I just wondered is that were buchanan space of eternal torture because have to be really that bad to give them any kind of peace. The bank me you know we we. We do believe in revenge humans. We have a chance to see to want revenge. Rake and i mean. God doesn't that's the difference there s no reason nothing there but anyway i i began to doubt the very existence of him and in other religions barry there. It's a little different so you might pass through there but you don't stay there I also yeah. That's why i don't believe in hell ends. Why leaders only one face and bad is happening and of course our energy levels are different. So that makes us in different in different and reject levels. Were there but i mean. It's we're all there. There's no basically return after be smith's such a sadistic thing to do Because mir we will make mistakes and we do not know. I always think of the movie. The shock in on and He he wrote such a beautiful book about forgiveness and and and the very fact that we really don't know on a person's either live. We can't must walk in their shoes. So you know i. Yeah i don't believe in how i only believe. There's only one place we go. And that's based and and of course i read. I can't how many near death and all kinds of stories. I mean i. I read so many. I felt like i had one myself. And so i you know it's it's just a loving Feel completely connected. That was another aha moment. I had a very early on our our dear team should the fda not realized. I one we really Yes absolutely oh cleese in. I mean if people understood down at the august or willingness woodstock absolutely why all the evil would go away. Yeah for schori debut naturally action. I sure well if someone wants to learn more about you um what is the best place for someone to connect with you when you find out about your books and and and and just really you know see what. You're all about a little bit more well my website. Www cynthia mitchell dot com I suppose i haven't. I posted a few nuggets on their also. Big at my dear bows are ben. Also i've got several blogs. On their several stories they can read and then the books to their kids about you know gipper website. And then and i suppose that would be the best thing they can sign up for me. Newsletter their connect with me that way or or birth. You my email excellent. While i really appreciate you being on the program today and sharing with us your story and And once you've been what you've been able to find out. And i think it is a very A message of hope and you know another. We're not alone and we don't have to be along when our loved ones Change form on slopes call it bad just changing form and just we know we can't necessarily maybe see them physically with our eyes but it doesn't mean they're not still there so yeah and and watch for the sides and like you said but look at. How much did a coincidence that those books for their for you. An that i find it we are being guided and how We just yeah absolutely. that's it. Yeah until the signs all right. Well thank you again for being with us and thank you everyone for for watching and for I appreciate your patience with a internet apples for having today and until next time is always i encourage you to live fully love deeply and engage authentically one more thing before you go as valued listener of the live. Love engage podcast. I want to help you shine your light in the world. Not only while you're listening to the show but all day every day of the week. That's why i created the world. Love engaged spiritual awakening community on facebook. It's a place for you to gather with other business professionals and entrepreneurs who are committed to living a life of their dreams. If you want be a part of this community hand receive free trainings from me. Go to live. Love engage dot com and request to join that's ally be l. o. g. ghg dot com.
Ep 61: Heart Attack or Poison? (Cynthia Sommer Trial)
"Nita gift that won't be rejected create a buzz book, the new soft cover photo book by nations photo lab. Relive the memories. You don't wanna forget your child's first year, your wild bachelorette or your trip to Spain. All you have to do is fill the pages with your favorite photos. It's that easy to make something truly memorable. Make every moment matter head on over to nations photo lab dot com slash buzzed books and use code junkie for your free buzzed book. It's October eighth chief hundred eighteen and I'm on the phone with Alan Blum, a renowned criminal defense attorney from San Diego, California. We're talking about one of his clients Cynthia Sommer who is charged with murdering her husband back in two thousand seven and it seems hard for Allen to hide his irritation during our conversation. Even now as he talks about how Cynthia was treated by the San Diego district attorney's office cynthia's case gained national attention back then and her trial was live streamed on court TV, but it wasn't necessarily the facts of the case that had the nation's attention. It was the salacious details. The prosecution presented about how Cynthia acted in the days weeks and months after her husband's death. Because of her. Death behavior. She reacted to his death in a way that others wouldn't have reacted or didn't think she should have reacted. She she had sex with a friend of his she had. She went down to you wanna and partied and she had a breast implant, and because the district attorney made such a point of that as opposed to real facts of the case it got a lot of publicity. This is Jillian and you are listening to court junkie episode, sixty one. It all started at one thirty four AM on February eighteenth thousand two when Cynthia Sommer dialed nine one one to report that her husband Todd Sommer had collapsed. According to Cynthia he had gotten up out of bed just minutes before turned on the light and told her that he didn't feel good before then collapsing onto the floor. Todd was just twenty three years old and was a marine sergeant in the military. He and Cynthia had met in nineteen ninety nine just three years prior when he was nineteen and Cynthia was twenty five they had married had a baby. And now lived at the Marine Corps air station Miramar in San Diego, California with cynthia's three children from a previous marriage Cynthia could be heard on the nine one one call telling Todd Todd, I love you. Please don't do this to me. What am I gonna do? Without you, the dispatcher asked if Todd was conscious and breathing and Cynthia said, no Cynthia asked if she should start doing CPR and the dispatcher told her, yes, Cynthia begged them to hurry and to said someone to their home earlier that day Cynthia Todd and therefore four kids had gone to an amusement park, and they had just put the kids to bed when Todd told her that his heart felt like it had been fluttering Cynthia had asked them if they should go to the hospital and Todd told her no that he was just going to sleep. If it off military emergency technicians responded to the scene, but it was too late. Todd skin was blue in models. He was taken to the hospital and a half hour later was pronounced dead. An autopsy showed that Todd's death had been caused by cardiac arrhythmia, the naval criminal investigative service. Or NCIS conducted a routine investigation into the circumstances surrounding his death. But concluded that he had died of natural causes. As time went on Cynthia started dating someone else and she and her children moved to Florida with her new boyfriend. But also as time went on investigators with the NCIS started to become suspicious that there was something off with Todd staff. According to Todd's medical records. He had been feeling ill and had even gone to see a doctor twice in the days before his death. The first time he went the doctor told them it might be food poisoning. But when that didn't subside Todd went back a few days later and was given an IV fluid and a prescription for the stomach flu. And in addition to Todd's medical records. The investigators also thought there was something odd about cynthia's behavior after her husband's staff neighbors had reported that she was throwing loud parties, she had gone to Tijuana with some friends on a party trip and just two months after Todd staff she had spent over five grand on breast implants. Investigators ordered the Todd's tissue samples be sent to the armed forces institute of pathology, or af I p in Washington DC for testing there were looking for heavy metals that would show of Todd had been poisoned and sure enough when the test results came back the tissues from Todd's liver and kidneys tested, positive for one thousand times, the normal level of arsenic. On November thirtieth two thousand five about three and a half years after Todd died, Cynthia was arrested in Palm Beach county, Florida and charged with murder Deputy District Attorney, Laura gun told reporters that this was the coldest homicides. She would ever try in terms of being absolutely cold blooded. They were alleging that Cynthia had murdered Todd in order to collect his insurance money. Prosecutors then filed for special circumstances of murder by poison and murder for financial gain. They decided not to go for the death penalty. So instead she was facing life in prison without the possibility of parole Cynthia was extradited from Florida to California and was held without bond while she awaited her trial. And while she waited court documents filed by prosecutors were released accusing Cynthia of having been eager to collect Todd's life insure. Prince which was two hundred and fifty thousand dollars as well as monthly survivor payments. Media outlets ran stories with headlines such as woman accused of killing husband for implants, and arsenic, and black lace DA says she killed hubby to pay for boob job. Cindy is attorney went on the defensive telling reporters that Cynthia was only trying to make herself feel better after the death of her husband. But as much as prosecutors wanted to use cynthia's behavior after her husband died against her the judge in the case judge Peter Dutta ruled that testimony about cynthia's lifestyle afterwards wouldn't be admissible in court. He said it had little to do with whether Cynthia poison Todd or non. Scindia's trial began in January two thousand seven deputy district. Attorney Laura gun told the jury that Cynthia was the only person greedy enough to murder her husband for his military benefits. And that she was the only person close enough to him to poison him in the week leading up to his death. She said the only people around him were Cynthia and the four kids. She called arsenic, the perfect poison and pointed out that it's odorless colorless and tasteless, and that it's acceptable to the general public. She said Cynthia earned minimum wage at a subway sandwich shop and that after her husband died, she received six thousand dollars death gratuity payment from the military and then two hundred and fifty thousand dollars a month later from his life insurance policy and Cynthia wasted. No time in spending that money gun side on shopping parties. And of course, breast implants, she said Cynthia wasn't living within her family's means and hadn't been a year prior to Todd's murder. The military had turned her down for a loan due to that very reason and gun set a trust fund in Todd's name had been drained down to zero and January thirty first just eight days before Todd got sick. Prosecutor gun told the jury that Cynthia had gone to see a plastic surgeon on February eighth two thousand two for consultation on breast implant surgery. She only had two hundred eighty dollars in her Bank account at the time gun said. Cynthia told investigators when they interviewed her the Todd had gone with her to that appointment but gun said she had lied about that in the week and a half before tau died he suffered from acute gastro intestinal distress vomiting, nausea, and diarrhea all symptoms consistent with acute arsenic poisoning. She said she also pointed out that two months after Todd died Cynthia started a relationship with a new boyfriend in his opening statements. Cynthia's trial attorney Robert you Dell told the jury that Cynthia didn't do it. He said there would be no evidence presented that would show that Cynthia had any connection to arsenic. There's not one document now one piece of physical evidence to connect Cindy to arsenic, or even an attempt to get arsenic, nothing. He said he said that evidence will also show that Cynthia did not benefit financially from Todd staff, and that the evidence will show that he was the best thing that ever happened to her. After Todd died. He said Cynthia lost her medical benefits Todd's monthly income and their free housing from when they lived on the base and that her life came crashing down. If the motive for killing Todd was money this cost her significantly. He said. He called Todd cynthia's Knight in shining armor, saying that after a failed marriage and three kids Cynthia and Todd had married after dating for six months Todd was helping her raise her kids, and she was deeply in love with him. You don't told the jury that Todd may have been exposed to arsenic during a military trip. He went on to El Centro, California on February eighth. He said a former toxic waste dump was located there. And he noted that Todd. I noticed that he was getting sick after eating some eggrolls. He had purchased from gestation market on his way home. The prosecution appeared to have two strategies when it came to presenting their evidence both going towards an alleged motive the first was to show that Cynthia and Todd were having major financial difficulties at the time of Todd's death. And the second was to show cynthia's unusual behavior after his death. The verse responded to the scene was one of the first witnesses for the prosecution he said when he arrived Todd's body was cool to the touch and that Cynthia was standing over him. He told the court that Cynthia made a comment about Todd's life insurance policy as Todd was lying on the floor. Unresponsive Cynthia told him that they had joked about it a lot. But that she never thought she'd see it it referring to the insurance money. The office manager for Dr Scott Miller, testified that on February eighth Cynthia came in for breast augmentation consultation. She had a before photo taken and was told the surgery would cost her five thousand four hundred dollars. She came in again, a little over two months later after Todd had died on April eighteenth to have the surgery done. She paid by personal check before that on April fourth on cross examination. The office manager said that Cynthia had listed Todd as her emergency contact and that she was given information about financing plans to pay for it. Cynthia's inlaws Todd's parents testified to about their sons relationship with Cynthia and about their financial struggles Todd's mom, Yvonne, told the jury that when her twenty year old son married Cynthia she was concerned about the rush. But she grew to love Cynthia, and they had a very good relationship. She said Todd and since. The seemed to be very happy together. But that occasionally Todd would talk about money problems and not having enough food for the kids. She recalled getting a phone call from Cynthia about a week before. Todd died Cynthia told her that Todd was vomiting and had diarrhea and asked her for advice on what she should do. Yvonne thought the call was strange and did her friends when she told them about it. After Todd's death. She and her husband flew to Miramar from their home in Florida to be with Cynthia a couple nights after Todd died, Cynthia told them she wanted to go out with some friends. And so he von told her that she would watch Cynthia and Todd son she called cynthia's phone after midnight. When Cynthia still wasn't home. And when Cynthia did get home, she was mad that Evonne had called. She said Cynthia told her to mind her own business, and that she would grieve her way and Yvonne could grieve hers Yvonne's husband Mitchell, Todd's father, also told the jury about Todd in cynthia's money problems. He said he loaned them about nine thousand dollars made a down payment on their minivan and co-signed on their car loan to help them out. At Todd's burial and Nashville he said Cynthia brought a few of her military friends with her and stayed at a motel nearby. He went to go pick her up, and he said the room looked more like a party thing. And that there were beer and wine glasses everywhere. He said after Cynthia received the insurance money, he told her that she should put forty thousand dollars away for each of her children, and for herself and eighty thousand dollars for her in Todd's young, son. But he said Cynthia didn't wanna put that much away. He finally convinced her to put twenty five thousand dollars in a trust fund for her kids forty thousand dollars for her and Todd son and twenty five thousand dollars for herself. The prosecution also called cynthia's first husband's mother to the stand. She told the court that went Cynthia told her about Todd she described him as gorgeous a marine with wealthy parents. And a big trust fund. She said he seemed to be pretty well off for a young man and Richard over fields an accountant who knew sent the end Todd. So that he offered his condolences to Cynthia within hours of Todd having passed away. He said she thanked him, and then told them that she had questions about their taxes. She asked what do we do since Todd is dead as far as getting his signature and filing the return. Eva stone or a military police officer who drove Cynthia to the hospital that night testified that Cynthia asked her to stop. So that she could get a pack of cigarettes on their way there when asked if there was any sense of urgency to get to the hospital. Eva said not from Cynthia uncrossed examination. However, Eva said that Cynthia children that are husband was a good, man. And she was sure he would be okay. And when she was informed that her husband was dead, Cynthia cried and asked Eva to go with her to see his body. Miramar station. Supervisor testified about an unusual question Cynthia had asked him while at the hospital. He said he asked her if she needed anything an intern. She asked him if she would have to repay Todd's enlistment bonus. He told the court that it wasn't the type of thing. He would expect from someone who had just lost. Her husband. The prosecution also called a forensic accountant to the stand April real who justified that she had analyzed Todd in cynthia's finances. She told the court that in the short term Cynthia did benefit financially from Todd staff before tie-dyed his monthly income was about seventeen hundred dollars a month. They didn't have to pay for housing or medical care since those were provided on bass after Todd stuff Cynthia had to leave the base, but she received monthly checks from social security in VA benefits up to seventy nine hundred dollars a month. She said and then received the payout from Todd's insurance. Real told the court that Cynthia had spent the insurance money before the end of the year. She said forty nine percent of it went into trusts for her kids. Twenty four percent went directly to Cynthia and twenty five thousand dollars was put into a trust in her name that was controlled by Todd's family. The rest real said Cynthia used to pay off loans by a computer pay the IRS and other expenses on cross examination. She agreed that Cynthia did not purchase any luxury items with the money. Dr Steven Robinson, the medical examiner who conducted Todd's autopsy, testified that Todd's original cause of death was ruled a heart failure. Because nothing else seemed to make sense. And there was no reason to suspect foul play. He said their findings were basically none Todd was twenty three years old six foot one inch tall two hundred and four pounds and had a heart. That was anatomically normal. The were also no drug. Found in his system. The prosecution then tried to somehow tie, Cynthia to arsenic. They called three different agents with the NCIS to the stand all who testified about how easy it was for someone in the general public to purchase a poison like arsenic, one agent. Purchase seven vials of it on EBay for twenty five dollars and Ricky Renton another special agent with the NCIS testified about other ways, they looked into connecting Cynthia, but the arsenic he told the court that he travelled to London to question cynthia's ex-husband. He asked him whether Cynthia had ever watched CSI or forensic files to which your ex husband said, no he told Renton that. She watched party of five Beverly Hills nine O, two winnow, Melrose place and friends. Renton testified that he contacted the producers of Melrose place and found out that there had been six episodes that revolved around poison, but he had no evidence that Cynthia had ever seen those ups odes or had mimicked them. Mm Renton also testified that he purchased something called grants kills ants. An aunt poison laced with arsenic, he purchased it at a local grocery store where Cynthia likely shopped. However, he didn't have any proof that she had purchased any herself. And next up. 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The defense wasted. No time in calling Cynthia to the stand who testified that she met Todd in nineteen ninety nine through a mutual friend within six months of their meeting. She and Todd were married. She said she loved him. And that they had a lot of fun together. They just clicked she said she said Todd started to get sick on February eighth thousand two after he went on a trip with his fellow marines, tell Centro, but she said she thought he was getting better until he collapsed she recalled when she lost saw her husband as he was being taken away in a gurney. She said she told him that she loved him hugged him and then took his wedding ring off and put it on her thumb. She admitted to getting breast implants about two months later, but said Todd knew that she was going to do it. It was never a secret. And that he was in favor of it. She read aloud a card Todd had given her on Valentine's Day just days before his death. It read happy Valentine. Wednesday, Princess, my life is so happy with you in it. I couldn't imagine things any other way. Maybe for next Ballantine's. You can get yourself a set of Bubis. Thanks you or thanks for making me better last week. Love you forever. Todd. After Todd died. She said she couldn't sleep and couldn't eat. And so she went to a doctor. She said she just really couldn't function on April eighteenth. She went to the plastic surgeon to get her breast augmentation surgery later that night, she said, she met another marine someone who she said she's engaged to today. And cross examination. Prosecutor Laura gun brought out an Email Cynthia had written to her new fiance. The Email read, quote, I couldn't see five years into the future with Todd baby. I see fifty with you. When asked what she meant by that. She admitted that she never saw herself being old with Todd. She was also questioned about how she was able to give Todd CPR, but also being on the phone with nine one one Cynthia said, she didn't really remember much from that night. Janet, Lippert cynthia's mom was called to the stand testify about Cynthia and Todd's relationship. She said Cynthia was extremely proud of Todd. And that she enjoyed being the wife of a marine. She said Todd was a wonderful son in law and a great stepfather to cynthia's kids and he treated them as his own. She then testified that Cynthia was hysterical when Todd died. She said when she arrived at Todd in cynthia's house sometime after his death, Cynthia was curled up in the fetal position in her bed clinging onto one of Todd's shirts and sobbing. Uncontrollably. Janet said she took her to the local clinic where she was treated for insomnia and acute grief. Janet said Cynthia kept saying I just don't know what I'm gonna do over and over again, she said an officer came over to the house to explain the benefits that she would be receiving and said Cynthia had no idea what they were prior to that. She said Cynthia also got a tattoo dedicated Todd with his name birthdate, death date and the Marine Corps motto. A friend of cynthia's testified that she and Cynthia would take their kids to church together. And that they talked every day she told the court that she was actually jealous of the relationship Cynthia and Todd had she said when Todd was deployed Cynthia would get really sad because she missed him. The defense also called their own arsenic, experts to the stand. The I was Dr Alphonse poke Lous who had initially been contacted by the prosecution, but was now testifying on behalf of the defense. Dr poke Lous testified that he didn't believe that Todd was poisoned with arsenic for a number of reasons. One the fact that Todd had been getting better after going to the doctor in the days before his death. He continued to go to work and even went to the amusement park with his family the weekend he died. Dr Polk Lewis said that with levels over one thousand times normal in the liver. Todd would have been sick and at a hospital suffering from severe progressive symptoms and organ failure death would come quick he said, and it would be a violent and painful Duff to when Todd went to the clinic a few days before he died blood tests were done and everything came back normal. If Todd had had a massive dose of arsenic in his system. His white blood cells would have been abnormal and his blood pressure would have been low. Instead, it was slightly elevated and three with such high levels of arsenic in the liver and kidneys, you would expect to find elevated levels of arsenic, everywhere arsenic, would spread throughout his body and organs would be damaged Dr Pokemon said, the acute arsenic theory makes absolutely no sense. And he was concerned whether Todd had really been poisoned, and what in the world was going on and who took this test. He said. The defense had another expert who agreed with Dr poke Lous, Dr Laura LA bay, a forensic toxicologist at national medical services lab looked at the lab work done by the af IP she said, she looked at Todd's blood urine gastric fluid and bile along with various tissue samples. She told the court that the plastic container holding Todd's bile was cracked and some of the sample had leaked out Dr Lebed testified that although she agreed that there were significantly elevated levels of arsenic, and Todd's liver and kidney tissues. She said. She didn't agree that it was due to acute arsenic poisoning. She too said that Todd's other levels should have been elevated and that his organs would have been damaged Dr la- bay. Also took issue with the way, the af IP tested the tissue samples. She said their methods were unacceptable. Dr la- bay also said she didn't agree with the prosecution that Todd could have been given one large dose of arson. Nick around February eighth. She said it wasn't conceivable, but he would have been able to walk around for ten days without being severely ill. Dr la- base. Supervisor Alabama house gotta agreed with Dr LA bay. And also testified that she found disturbing problems with what the af IP. Did. She said there were calculation errors data that lacked labels and no reference to a chain of custody. She pointed out that there wasn't even a summary sheet. The defense rested. But then they suffered a major blow when the judge ruled that the prosecution could now introduce evidence of cynthia's behavior after Todd's death. The prosecution had argued that because cynthia's attorney Robert you Dell had questioned cynthia's mom about how she had reacted to the loss of her husband that then opened the door to the prosecution witnesses to rebut that and judge Dutta. Agreed. So in the prosecution's rebuttal they introduced even more damaging evidence about cynthia's behavior. They called to if cynthia's former co workers to the stand who testified that just months after Todd died Cynthia went to Tijuana with them and participated in a wet t shirt and thong contest. One of the co workers said that the day after Todd died Cynthia came into work and casually told them what happened. She said she wasn't acting as though it was serious. But the other co worker told cynthia's attorney. The on cross that she did think Cynthia was acting like a grieving widow that she was just showing it in her own way, three marines. Then took the stand and testified that they had sex with Cynthia in the weeks following Todd stuff one of them telling the court that he and his wife had had a threesome with her that same marine recounted how he had seen cynthia's now. Fiancee's driving Todd's car around which made him upset in her closing arguments. Prosecutor gun told the jury that Cynthia connived everyone at first into thinking that she was a grieving widow. But that her words and actions after Todd died showed otherwise she said Cynthia had an I ha moment shortly after Todd's trust fund ran out in January. And so she decided to poison him for the insurance money. She recapped cynthia's behavior afterwards, noting the breast implants the sex with four different marines the loud parties and the wild trip to Tijuana. This is not somebody who's grieving. She said. Ed. This is somebody who celebrating what else shows her true colors. She asked for sexual partners just in the first two months after Todd died. She also said that nobody else could have poisoned Todd and surmised that Cynthia possibly got the arsenic from ant traps and then gave a large dose to her husband. But when you Dell gave his closing arguments. He said there was no evidence that Cynthia poison Todd and no evidence that he had even died from acute arsenic poisoning. That the military lab that conducted the results was questionable. Instead, he said the initial findings were correct that Todd had died of a heart attack. He said Cynthia may have wanted more than she could afford on their monthly income. But that doesn't mean she killed him. The jury of seven women and five men took about twelve hours to reach their verdict. Guilty. After the verdict was read and Cynthia was taken back into custody. Laura gun give a press conference outside the courthouse. Saying that she was so glad that Todd's family has Justice finally for the death of their son. She said she had spoken with the jurors after the verdict and that they had accepted early on the Todd had died of arsenic poisoning. That once you do that. There's nobody else who could have done it in a jailhouse interview Cynthia said, she was very shocked that she was shocked that she was arrested shocked that she had spent fifteen months in jail already and shocked at the verdict. And this is the point where Alan Blum that renowned criminal defense attorney from San Diego signed onto the case. There was a lot of publicity about the case because of this insatiable aspects of it because it was a young woman and the young marine, and it kind of mysterious death and then the sexual aspects which they just record trinity was attempting to gain a lot of mileage on on the case. So it was a prominent case. Before I came onto the case on the the news here in San Diego. And I didn't know the attorney who is representing. Cindy, he was an attorney primarily from Florida. So I didn't have much contact with him personally. But it was kind of in the headlines and after her conviction, and after the controversy came out to controversy being that there was so little evidence to convict your yet. She was convicted almost scarlet letter kind of conviction because of her post death behavior, she reacted to his death in a way that others wouldn't have reacted or didn't think she should have reacted. She she had sex with a friend of his she had. She went down to you wanna and partied and she had a breast implant, and because the district attorney made such a point of that as. Opposed to real facts of the case, it got a lot of publicity when she got convicted by girlfriend heard about the case, and she turned to me and said, you should use something about that. And almost ironically, the next couple of days later Cindy's cousin Todd gave me a call and asked if I would come onto the case and talk to him and talk to her about it. And so I did. And so I did Ellen thought the prosecution's case had some major holes in it. They couldn't find a single thing that linked Cindy to the possession of arsenic. Well, let me take that back. They found one thing. And I'll address at one second. And they went after every different thing that they could find they they looked for everything they even sent. There investigator to the city of London in order to talk to a particular military person who had been transferred from San Diego to London and their investigators are team of win over to London to talk to this person because this person. Had knowledge that Cindy, or at least they thought that Cindy had seen a particular TV show a drama on TV where somebody had been killed with arsenic. So they said, well, we don't have anything to show that she has any contact with arsenic. But she saw TV show, and therefore she's probably guilty. I mean, they would just going after every possible little straw that. They could find they test. Of course, we went after her computer they chest. They looked at all of their phones. They looked at everything and found nothing except one thing what they found in her house was a particular companies and an Roach bait little box. She hit some ants in her house. And so she had ant repellent, and they said it has arsenic in. It may never showed a purchasing. The this amount. And when we get finally when the district attorney raises issue, it was one of the points that we had just about how the first lawyer didn't do the job. He should have done. We determined that in order to take this particular product and. Take a look at how much it contained how much arsenic. It contained and compared to the amount of arsenic that was in Todd's to tissues of living kid. The district attorney's argument that she could have killed him by feeding him. His aunt Roach is an is an bay poison. We determined that. She would have had to have fed him twelve pounds of this material not only over the course of a day or two or something. But in in a single day. I mean, a hamburger is a is a is a quarter Pounder. So when you go to McDonald's you get quarter pound me. So they wanted to say that she has sixty four even the volume itself is absurd but keep it ahead to sixty four sizes of quarter pounders, let me give you sixty four. Nobody can even eat for on sixty four quarter pounders, and he would have had each sixty four of them in order to get to a pound of of of this stuff. And it was burgers. He would have had to eat anti the absurdity of that. You would have thought would have stopped district. Attorney from emphasizing the only thing that they could was that she had had not suffered grief as she should have. So Allen decided to take on cynthia's case. And one of the first things he did was rather unusual. He decided to file a motion for a new trial based on any effective assistance of counsel. Remember that cynthia's trial attorney, Robert you Dell had opened the door for the testimony about cynthia's sex life and trip to Tijuana to come in an alien saw that as a big mistake, not only that. But Allen questioned whether Todd had been poisoned. At all when I started all over. I wasn't sure exactly what was what we were going to find. But this turned out what we found was. Primarily that the trial lawyer who had represented Cindy was was trying hard doing his best. But it overlooked a lot of different things, and particularly at overlooked, the fact that there was no attack to the fact that. Her husband had not died from an arsenic poison overdose. At all and affect the trial lawyer. Was saying. Okay, conceding that he had died from this poison. But said it wasn't Cindy. And not sure exactly how it was. Or maybe he contracted by being someplace else like in a field on a in an east county far away from here, which was like an open field where were contaminant and a lot of Agra agricultural things in pesticides and stuff. And so whatever happened. He must have gotten it from there. But he didn't start at the beginning to show the that her husband had not died from poison at all. In what perhaps was a surprise to everyone. Judge deta delayed Cynthia sentencing and also in an unusual move decided to hold a special hearing. We're Robert you Dell could testify at the hearing you del admitted that he had made several errors representing Cynthia. And that he felt terrible about the verdict. But prosecutor Laura gun argued that that wasn't enough to overrule the jury. She said you Dell did his job within the bar, and that Cynthia was convicted because Todd's tissue was filled with arsenic, and she had a giant financial motive and wanted out. But judge data disagreed saying, quote, Mr. you Dell has an approach to this case that was focused in being so focused. He missed many areas that would have been fruitful for his defense. And in missing those areas, I believe that he has been ineffective based on that. I'm going to order that MS summer be allowed to have a new trial. So on November thirtieth. Two thousand seven instead of being sentenced Cynthia was granted a new trial. Instead of just picking up her last attorney had left off Alan wanted to start from the very beginning and get access to all the evidence in the case in order to prep for cynthia's new trial. When I took over the case there were. I'm going to estimate like thirty thousand pages of documents. Thousands and thousands of pages of documents. And it took a while to get into that as he was going through the many documents he discovered some rather interesting emails between the prosecution and their own arsenic, experts one of the most suspicious aspects of the alleged arsenic poisoning was that of the twelve tissue samples tested, only two of them, the ones from the kidneys and liver came back as positive the other ten were negative, and as the defense experts in the case said, that's not the way arsenic, poisoning, typically works. You would typically find arsenic everywhere in all the tissues will in the emails Allen discovered it appeared that the experts from af I p the ones who conducted the test or confused by this as well. We found the emails, and we discovered an asked for more emails between the people from the American. In the American the armed forces institute of pathology, af IP who did the evaluation who ultimately were sued, and and their practices were enormously contested, the af I p send a lot of emails between themselves at weren't revealed entirely too. Defense lawyer somewhere, but some weren't. That showed the day themselves had tremendous suspicions about about their findings. They had never seen anything Mike it. So we discovered all these emails which raised a whole lot of question marks. And all these emails are flying back, and nobody can explain it. Basically, the doctors were saying I've never seen anything like this. We don't understand it. And then the prosecutor the DA Laura gun was basically sort of sending emails cajoling them saying what could be an explanation here or there could be next nation there, right? And the prosecutor agents police agents which were through the naval crime institute. NCIS they were doing the same thing kind of cajoling their own to doctors to say, well, it could be explained. Maybe you've never seen it for this reason that reason and then he found something else in the files. Mention of another set of backup tissues that hadn't yet been tested. Alan contacted the DA's office to see where those backup tissues were. I made multiple requests to the district attorney to find out where they were. And there was this tremendous sandbagging by the district. Attorney Laura gun she tried to escape and push us to different areas and say, she'll get back to us on it and so forth and never did. But we didn't give up on it. And we said we need to have these review. Finally, when we sent an investigator, and we finally found the source of found it that we were not going to get. Response from the district attorney's office. I went to the San Diego naval hospital. We have a hospital co Balboa hospital, which is naval hospital. And that's where the autopsy was done on Todd. And we went to the to the past allergy department to find tissues in my investigator contacted the department where they should have been. And in fact, they looked at naval records. We showed them the records. We had and they said, yes, we have those. We have another set of tissues. And what was ironic about it? Actually, it's more than I wrong. It's what was really. The serious in and underhanded about it was that when he discovered these issues it went to a particular refrigerator and sitting on top of the refrigerator preserved as they should have been in a manner that was appropriate for preserving them was a box where these other tissues are on the box. The box was labeled do not destroy but do not produce signed Laura gun Deputy District Attorney so Laura gun new of these tissues and attempted to to to hide them. And not present them to the defense. Ellen contacted the DA's office to demand that the tissues be turned over to them. So they could have them tested, and he was about to go through the court to get them when the DA's office decided to handle it themselves, and it was at that point. When I demanded that they'd be produced for us. And that and her response was before I filed a motion with the court to or to have them tested Middle East the defense. I didn't trust them at all for the for the testing of it. I didn't trust the af IT because I felt their their work was sloppy. They had something to protect and that they had contaminated. The first set I didn't trust the district attorney's people because she had been sitting on this information for several years. All this time. That's India's sitting in jail and missing her kids. Graduation and mission this missing that. And gun is arguing in front of the jury how strong this evidence is she knows that it's week. And she knows also there's another way of finding out and solving the issue because there's another set of tissues. So I didn't trust the district attorney do the right thing. And I filed the order for the court ordered the release of these materials so that a defense investigator a defense expert a defense team could take a look at tissues before the judge issued the sign the order. Instead of just responding to the order gun on her own took the tissues away and symptom over to a laboratory it turns out she went to a laboratory, which was highly respected probably one I would have used as well. I think they were Canadian or they have a Canadian connection as well as the US, but they're very very well known. They have been described as having being the gold standard of laboratories because they're so incredibly solid and reliable. She ended up going to a good place. I think in dirt until you're or for whatever reason she ended up going to the place, and they did it full test in these tissues, including the very the very same. Tissues. That the liver and kidney that had been offending that had been so content so contaminated showed fatal amounts, and of course, they should nothing all the other tissues tested with nothing and liver and kidney tested with nothing all the tissues tested negative for any kind of arsenic poisoning. Meaning tide was never poisoned. So you're probably wondering what happened next without any notification on afternoon it was about four thirty in the afternoon. And it was a Tuesday. I think it was Tuesday because I was playing Bill. And I got the call. Thing to a have any objection to the district attorney dismissing this case and the court wanted to know if I could if I could if I was going to make an appearance that afternoon because it had been scheduled that afternoon without my knowledge, and I said, no most definitely I want to be there. And appearing in my UCLA. Golfing shirt court. And because ironically at the time, I got the call I was on it's going to sound silly. But I was on the seventeenth teebox belbow apart and immediately to my right on this elevated golfing hole was belbow hospital. And from where you're standing there on this golf course, I'm looking belbow a hospital, and as I'm talking to the judge's clerk. I'm looking at the at the courthouse 'cause I can see both from right there. And I said, yes, I most definitely I most definitely want to be there. And we went to court that afternoon. And even though there was there was a tremendous effort. I think there was even the last minute efforts to keep it, quiet. And that's why it was done. So quickly. I don't know that for sure, but all I know is it's very unusual to come to me and say, okay, the the George have been filed. Do I want to appear the district attorney would have done it on its own? She would have done it on her own without me being there. The judge properly said no, this is a matter which everybody has a right to appear. And so we're going to we're going to defense the opportunity to be pressing. So even that was done in a very unusual and shifty way later that afternoon. The case was dismissed and Cynthia was free. And that evening, I went with my girlfriend to. To the San Diego County jail women's facility, which is in eastern part of our county. And there was Cindy ready. Get out she had been told the San Diego district attorney Bonnie demand is released a statement after the charges were dropped, quote as district attorney for San Diego County, the buck stops with me and the high profile prosecution of Cynthia summer for murder our office made the right choices for the right reasons at every step in the process. But last week we were all reminded that the criminal Justice system is not perfect. And I understand how recent developments in the case raise several questions where tissue samples tainted could new testing had been done sooner. How could a convicted murderer suddenly walk out of jail? A free woman. I wish things had gone differently. But there are checks and balances in the criminal Justice system designed to protect both crime victims and criminal defendants along. The way as prosecutors. We followed our ethical duty in this case. And while MS summer came close to spending the rest of her life in prison the system eventually worked. She went on to explain why they had filed murder charges in the first place, the arsenic levels that had tested positive. There was no other medical explanation for Todd's death cynthia's apparent financial motive along with her odd behavior. She said they sent the extra set of tissues to be tested out of fairness to the defendant. And because it's their job to pursue the truth. She said the results shocked them, quote within hours of hearing confirmation of this new information, we dismissed murder charges against Cynthia summer. We did not want her to spend even one more day in jail, and we took action as soon as the judge in the case could review our motion in court as prosecutors when we receive information like this. It's our duty to act and act quickly. So why did the arsenic levels show up in the first testing Allen has a theory when they did the testing when if I did the testing and had these twelve samples somehow the samples that they tested for liver and kidneys somehow got contaminated, and for example, from other higher than other types of agents at the us on the laboratory workbench, which shouldn't be introduced from one case to another probably affected these two tissues, meaning some other agents, some other solution from some other case that was part of the lab bench inadvertently found its way onto the tissues for the liver and kidney. And that's why they were so spiked high with the arsenic, and the others were clean Cynthia filed a lawsuit in September. She thousand nine alleging that prosecutors in the NCIS falsified evidence improperly arrested. Her withheld key evidence and failed to disclose relevant facts that could have helped her case. But her lawsuit was thrown out for years later after a federal judge ruled that she couldn't prove any of her allegations. And since Cynthia was never imprisoned. She wasn't eligible to be compensated in another way, either the government never gave her any money for wrongful conviction because we stopped the conviction because the appeal to place in between the jury verdict of guilty and the sentencing had she been sentenced, and then we got it overturned. She would have received. I think it's one hundred dollars a day not much. But at least it's something a hundred dollars a day for every day that she was in jail of the almost three years. He was in custody away from her family away from their kids having lost custody and control over kid's been away when they were having their graduation, and all those special things, she would've at least received some small compensation for that. Had. She been convicted meaning been sentenced this India. Go district attorney's office released another statement after cynthia's lawsuit was dismissed quote over the last seventeen months. Miss summer's new attorney has repeatedly accused the trial prosecutor Deputy District Attorney Laura gun of gross prosecutorial misconduct today. The court made a finding that counsel for MS summer has presented no evidence to support those accusations as district attorney, I personally reviewed every aspect of the handling of this case in great detail. The accusations made by MS Sommer's council are on. True at all times during the prosecution of MS summer DD gun acted in a professional ethical and legally appropriate manner. There will be no further comment about this case at this time. Had it been the situation that they had never really seen that second set of tissues and an inadvertently found it, and then be tested it. Then you'd be in a position to say. Okay. We were vigorous in our initial prosecution. We base it upon a lot of emotion. But we really thought she was guilty. And we had any evidence was there. Even though the evidence was suspicious. The evidence was there showing the these deadly ounce of ours. Nick in in these two tissues, and she was the person who had most access to her husband, and therefore we gave it to the jury to decide they came back guilty. That's all part of being ineffective prosecutor and being an aggressive prosecutor and doing your job. But when you know, there's another set of tissues, and you hide that information, you're not doing your job at that point. It's interesting to note that when the district attorney dropped the charges she did so without prejudice. Meaning she was leaving the door open. So Cynthia could potentially be retried one day I asked Alan about. That. And do you think that there's a chance that she could ever be retried, but anything steel radically possible? I mean, there's a chance that that you could be called by NASA tomorrow because they need a new astronaut, go, tomorrow's an expedition. I guess you could say there's a possibility. And then they could ask me to somebody who has never flown a plane in your life to to fly the jet to fly the aircraft to get get us up there. I mean, these things are theoretically possible. So if you ask a question about what you just asked me, you could it could it ever happened? The answer's Yes, Anything can happen. But we'll see be tried. No. Of course, not Cynthia has since asked a judge should dismiss her case with prejudice ensuring that she would never again be charged for Todd's murder, but the judge denied her request. Although he said he couldn't imagine this case ever being retried. And that's all for this episode. Let me know what you think about this case with Cynthia treated fairly by our Justice system, did the prosecution do the right thing or do you agree with cynthia's attorney. And if you do think Cynthia was wrongfully tried should there be any compensation for that? Let me know by tweeting me at court junkie pod. Sending me an Email at podcast at court junkie dot com. Or by joining my Facebook discussion group at court junkie dot com slash Facebook, a special. Thank you goes out to calm. One of my sponsors of today's episode calm. The number one app for sleep meditation and relaxation gives you the tools you need to live a happier, healthier and more mindful life, just five minutes of calm can change your whole day interested in trying Berlin limited time court chunky listeners can get twenty five percent off a calm premium subscription. Adt com dot com slash junkie. It includes unlimited access to all of coms amazing content and premium programs, like call music, sleep meditations and sleep stories designed to soothe your mind into dreamland. Get started today at com dot com slash junkie. That's called dot com slash junkie. I also wanna give a shout out to my friends over at the minds of madness podcast. If you haven't heard of them, yet, definitely check them out. Here's a trailer for their pond nine one one. What's your emergency? Every sixty seconds. A person is murdered somewhere in the world. What causes ordinary people to do think? -able things. In my neck. Look how easily I could kill you. The minds of madness is true crime podcast that examines the most disturbing criminal minds. We shed a light on the devastating impact. These violent crimes have on the victims and their families get calls in the night. You know, they're not good or the wrong numbers. You'll hear about the incredible strength of the survivors. And what the did to fight back. I was studying his face because I was thinking if I get out of it. I'm gonna get you someday. Subscribe to the minds of madness podcast today on apple podcasts Stitcher spot of by and Google play. As always if you don't wanna hear the ads like the ones you heard in this episode. You can donate as little as a dollar a month by going to court junkie dot com slash support that will redirect you to my Petri on page. You can donate a dollar a month to this podcast and get the episodes early and add free. That's court junkie dot com slash support. Once again, thanks everyone for listening until next time.
Cynthia Ann Parker Pt. 2: A New Identity
"Uh-huh. Case closed isn't a par cast podcast. But it is fascinating story you won't want to miss on a hot summer day in two thousand fourteen Erin, Corwin kissed. Her husband goodbye and left for hike and Joshua tree national park. She never came back to months later. Her body was found in an abandoned mine shaft deep and the desert the resulting investigation uncovered old secrets and permanently rocked the small marine community where air and in her husband lived here. The whole story on the new podcast case closed. Subscribe to case closed wherever you listen. The park has store is having an everything must go sale this weekend from February twenty second to February twenty fourth you can get twenty percent of all park merchandise, new designs and items will rive soon, but this is your last chance to get the current designs before they become collectibles. So why not get them for twenty percent off head to park has dot com slash merch and get twenty percent off between February twenty-second and February twenty fourth. That's par cast dot com slash merch. If you haven't had a chance yet, you should check out park. Cast crimes of passion, podcast crimes of passion. Analyzes, the relationship, dynamics and psychology that lead to betrayal crimes and even murder search for and subscribe to crimes of passion wherever you listen to podcasts, and please don't forget to rate and review. This episode features discussion of kidnapping rape violence and murder that some people may find offensive listener discretion is advised especially for children under thirteen. Scindia an Parker had spent twenty four years with the Comanche tribe living as one of them even marrying Comanche chief she barely remembered her old life living with her family at fort Parker on this cold December morning, she and her three children joined the other Comanche women packing up the settlement readying themselves to follow the Comanche men who had already started west then Cynthia caught the sound of distant horse hooves thundering along the Texan planes. She instinctively grabbed her children she'd been through this before hundreds of Texas Rangers appeared over the nearby hillside on horseback. Charging the Comanche camp, the women's scrambled to collect their families and run knowing they were little match for the band of armed men, Cynthia Ann ran with children, but in the stampede. She lost sight of her two boys. She. Clutched her newborn child to her chest trying to block out the gunfire booming behind her then something red hot slice through shoulder blade. Sending her tumbling to the ground the grass beside her was stained Garnett she'd been shot the ranger who shot her road up on horseback. And took aim ready to deliver a final bullet. But his eyes widen he recognized this woman, he grabs Cynthia Ann and through her on his horse, leaving her child screaming on the ground. She thrashed against him trying to fling herself off the horse. But it was no use for the second time in her life, Cynthia and Parker had been taken hostage. This is hostage on the par cast network. Every Thursday, we tell the stories behind the most captivating hostage situations, and the people inside them on Carter, ROY. And I remember Blanco will also cover the psychological tactics used in hostage negotiations, and what the human brain does when held captive par cast. We are grateful for you our listeners you allow us to do it. We love let us know Howard doing reach out on Facebook and Instagram at par cast and Twitter at parkas network. And if you enjoy today's episode the best way to help us is to leave a five star review where ever you are listening. It really does help. We also now have merchandise head to park dot com slash merch. For more information. This is our final episode on Cynthia. Ann Parker and the fort Parker massacre on may nineteenth eighteen thirty six hundreds of Comanche natives and their allies attack. The Parker family in Groesbeck Texas after over a year of defending their land against foreign settlers last week. We talked about the tense battle for land on the Texas frontier as incoming settlers overtook lands that native peoples had inhabited for centuries this led to violent skirmishes acts of sabotage and raids from both the settlers and the native peoples, but Cynthia Ann's father, Silas Parker and his small band of Texas Rangers escalated the tension by committing atrocities against the Comanche people it was an attempt to scare them from pursuing any further aides. But instead, they instigated a fight. That would leave the majority of their family dead or captured this week will follow the five settlers taken prisoner in the raid. Twenty seven year old Elizabeth Kellogg a pregnant seventeen year old Rachel Plummer, toddler James Pratt. Plummer five year old John Parker and nine year old Cynthia. Ann Parker will follow their heroin journeys as captives of fierce Comanche warriors in the long road to their eventual return to the Parker family. Later that morning on may nineteenth eighteen thirty six the Comanche warriors regrouped distance from fort Parker. They were overjoyed to discover that they had bested the settlers and taken five new captives to enslave or ransom win. The remaining settlers fled the fort the Commanches descended upon it again rating it for any supplies. They could carry back to camp horses guns medicine anything worth taking and as a final act of ill. Will they stabbed the parkers cattle to death? So that any returning settlers would find themselves starving. The fort they hoped was destroyed large band of Comanche than split up into several smaller groups each traveling in different directions to throw off any surviving. Parker who might be trying to track them each band took a different captive. So the five hostages wouldn't be able to communicate. Nate with one another throughout the day that night, the small group reconvened miles from fort Parker still fueled with excitement from their conquest earlier that morning, the Comanche spent the night reenacting the attack through Ray, dances and rituals the three children, Cynthia Ann, John and James Pratt. We're tied to a nearby tree. Little John began to cry terrified until one of the nearby men. Struck him from that moment on Cynthia Ann state, perfectly quiet should try not to move which prove nearly impossible. She was shaking with terror as night fell. She also began to shake with cold. She had never spent a night away from her family. She wanted her mother then closer to the fire Cynthia saw two men drag her cousin Rachel an aunt Elizabeth into the middle of sneering crowd. Their hands and feet were bound with rope that Doug visibly into their. Skin. They were both bleeding from their heads. Having been dragged over the dirt by their hair for one moment. Rachel met Cynthia Ann's gays and the two locked eyes and understanding passed between them, no matter. What happened? They would survive it, then the crowd descended on Rachel and Elizabeth beating them with whips and sticks. James pratt. Screamed as his mother was beaten Cynthia felt tears streaming down her face as she watched her pregnant cousin try to protect her stomach taking blow after blow to her back after what felt like ours. Rachel and Elizabeth both seem to pass out from the pain Cynthia Ann wondered if they were dead several men dragged them back into the woods as the crowd dispersed leaving Cynthia. Ann, John and James Pratt tied to the tree alone for hours. This ritual is repeated every night for the first five days of Cynthia ends captivity as the Comanche people made their way northwest by the end of it her cousin Rachel an aunt Elizabeth were so bruised and battered, it was a wonder they could still walk on day. Six may twenty fifth Cynthia Ann awoke to see that the lush green Texan prairies had given way to desert she'd never seen desert before in the morning. Sun was absolutely beautiful. But there was little time to enjoy it the Comanche or stirring, Cindy N watched several men gathered in the middle of camp debating, something eventually more Comanche is brought Rachel and Elizabeth interview Cynthia Ann found herself praying as she watched the Comanche men talk in the past six days, the Comanche had brought her family nothing, but torture, but at least she had gotten used. To the routine. The only thing worse was not knowing what was coming that Cynthia Ann found out soon enough the Comanche and their allies had decided they were far enough away from fort Parker that they likely weren't being followed. It was safe to split up into smaller bands and go their separate ways. The Comanche men began dividing up the hostages as presence to their allies. Each of the parkers was given two different band of native people Elizabeth was given to the keychain tribe. The other four were given two different Comanche bands Rachel's forced to watch as a hooking man wrote off with her toddler son, James who screamed out for as he was taken. Rachel felt her heart snap into as your son disappeared out of sight. She felt utterly alone. Helpless, she felt betrayed to how the Texas Rangers. Not track them by now. Why was nobody coming little? She knows. No that her father James Parker was desperate to find her and already hot on the Comanche trail, he was six days into a rescue mission. That would last the rest of his lifetime. When fort Parker was attacked. James Parker who was about forty at the time had been out working in the fields by the time. He got back to the fort the raid was over and his family was destroyed as a fort elder. He fought the urge to race after his captured family and instead helped lead the surviving settlers to safety. It was a decision that weighed on him heavily. He knew that by failing to follow the Comanche outright. He could lose their trail completely his guilt at not being present to protect his family. Consumed him. He was determined to get his family back month later in early June eighteen thirty six James returned for Parker with several other men. He would have come sooner. But his wife Martha had been bedridden due to a difficult pregnancy with their most recent son and James couldn't leave her side the second he was able he fled. Back to fort Parker to search for clues as to where the Comanche is might be headed. But when he arrived there was nothing to find. What was left of the men who had died that day had been picked apart by scavengers? Most of the cattle were dead and the rest were Macy ated beyond reviving James and the other men got to work burying their dead. It was back breaking putrid work. The decomposition process had a month's headstart on them James began to move a body into a freshly dug grave, but when he realized who he was burying he froze the body belonged to his brother, Silas, Cynthia and John's father James began to cry and left the body and the dirt James turned to one of the other men and told him he couldn't be the one to bury his brother. James spent the next month settling his family further east and Montgomery County, Texas on July eleven eighteen thirty six two months after the massacre James went to see general Sam Houston in San Augustine, Texas, somewhat recently Houston had led soldiers in the victorious battle against Mexico for Texan independence because of his victory. He had been appointed the interim president of Texas James attempted to convince Houston to appoint a company of men under his command to help him locate his family, but Houston denied his request as a man who grew up among natives Houston believed that maintaining peace with them would be more effective. He believed the James Parker would only cause more violence if you were in charge of a company of soldiers. He was not willing to pay anyone instigate fights with the natives over lost captives this, of course in. Curated James, but he didn't have time to argue. He'd already lost two months. Trying to track down his daughter grandson and other relatives he left San Augustine in search of people who could help. James got to work getting the word out telling traders and other travelers to send word if they saw or heard from one of his family members after a couple of weeks. Houston sent word that Elizabeth had been found and that he was needed back in San Augustine as soon as possible James could barely believe it he fled west at once racing to meet with Houston and hear what he knew about his daughter-in-law, according to Houston, the key who had taken Elizabeth usually spent most of their time in the west near Colorado. But for whatever reason over the past two months, they had started traveling back towards Texas. The keychain ban was relatively small compared to the command cheese. They had few supplies, and we're in need of money. So in early August, eighteen thirty six they ransom. Elizabeth to a group called the quote, Delaware Indians for one hundred and fifty dollars from there the Delaware Indian? Brought Elizabeth to a trading post in northeastern Texas looking to ransom. Her back to her family for a higher price. The trading post was quick to notify general Sam Houston of a female captive fitting, Elizabeth description, he sent word to James immediately, Delaware Indians met with James and Houston, and we're willing to release Elizabeth for the money that they had lost purchasing her. But between the massacre and relocating his family James was panelists. So in good faith. Houston used his personal money to pay Elizabeth's ransom James asked Elizabeth to recount her time with the key to general Houston, hoping that hearing her ordeal would move Houston to help the four remaining captives. But by the time, she was returned to her brother-in-law. Elizabeth was so browbeaten that she couldn't bring herself to relive the past three months of her life to this day not much is known about Elizabeth Kellogg's time. Spent with the Keach though, most female captors at the time reported relentless physical and sexual abuse by that tribe. So it's likely Elizabeth endured the same sexual abuse while in captivity can destroy a person's physical and mental well-being. According to a study conducted by doctors done more clarken Ehlers with the department of psychology at the university of Surrey in most cases, quote, the trauma can permanently in negatively change ones. Life and quote manifesting itself as post traumatic stress disorder or PTSD Elizabeth felt so deeply traumatized by the time. She endured with her captors that she was never able to bring herself to speak about it for the rest of her life. And unfortunately, Elizabeth didn't have any information on where the other captives had been taken James was back to square one. In a moment James sets, his sights. On recovering his daughter Rachel now back to the story. In August, eighteen thirty six Elizabeth Kellogg was reunited with her family James and Martha Parker, but James found it hard to feel relieved for his kin were still out there suffering through God knows what he was obsessed with recovering them. But had no idea where to look next several neighbors and friends advised him to go to coffee's trading post, two hundred miles away in Oklahoma owned by Holland coffee. Coffee's trading post had become a famous trading post along the Red River where native peoples and travelers alike would stock up on supplies if anyone had seen his family. It was a good chance. Someone at coffee's trading post would know about it James made the two hundred mile journey and arrived at the coffee's trading post to discover that he was not the only one looking for hostages the trading post was littered with notices from families searching for their kidnap. Loved ones along with the ransom. They were able to pay it seemed as though the coffee's trading post had become a kind of hostage negotiation center. This was going to be a lot harder than James at anticipated. James bought himself a Cup of Holland's famous coffee, then got to work spreading the word about his missing family. And after only two days James heard of a woman fitting Rachel's description, eighty miles east it captain paces trading post Chaim set out on foot because his horse couldn't cross the river. He tradgedy for the weeks of rain and bitter cold to get to Rachel Jane's later recalled that quote, the hope of soon seeing my loss child added new vigor to my body and summoning all of my remaining strength. I pursued my journey in mid October James reached captain paces trading post, nearly collapsing from exhaustion as he walked through the front door. But when he arrived, he was devastated to learn that the woman in paces care wasn't Rachel. It had all been for nothing. Feeling defeated. He headed home to his wife. He reached Montgomery County on November seventeenth eighteen thirty six and spent the next few months bedridden from illness his search for Rachel had nearly killed him. Although that barely compared to the torture. Rachel is enduring hundreds of miles to the west. Usually captive women were given to the warrior who took her. She was then often forced to marry her captor or become a sex slave either for that warrior, or anyone he loaned her to however in Rachel's case, she was given to an elderly man, his wife and their daughter and acted as their slave. She was responsible for tending to the horses during the cold winter nights and skinning buffalo hides for clothing, her shoes were taken from her and she was forced to wear the same tattered blood clothes. She had been captured in in the fall of eighteen thirty six just as Elizabeth was returning home. Rachel's band of command is moved further north into Colorado. They made their way to the Snowcap to rocky mountains by Tober, just as Rachel's water broke. She was going into labor. She didn't want to draw the attention of her family who might take the baby away. So she hid behind. A tree near camp and tried her best to keep quiet there by herself she gave birth. She named the baby Luther after his father who she worried. He would never meet not long after her worst fears were realised Comanche. Warriors took baby Luther from her and killed him. Rachel buried her. Newborn son in Colorado, just before the band picked up again and moved without a trace her pregnancy had been the only thing keeping Rachel alive. After a baby was gone. She lost the will to live completely between the beatings assaults and arduous labor. Rachel, welcome death. She began carrying around and knife trying to aggravate the warriors in the hopes that one would finally snap and killer. The comanche. Spent a winter in the rocky mountains staying in caves to keep warm on one particular cold night. Rachel got permission from her mistress to go further into a cave for warmth, the mistress agreed provided her daughter go with Rachel as a chaperone. Rachel walk deeper into the cave, but not soon after leaving her family. The mistress's daughter grew scared in ordered Rachel to turn back. Rachel refused. The daughter raised a hand to strike Rachel, but Rachel through her to the ground and ran deeper into the massive cave. What she happily lost herself for hours. She knew she would be killed when she returned. So she spent her last few moments on earth taking in the ice formations and crystals embedded in the mammoth cave when she made her way back to the camp Comanche men were waiting for her, but they didn't kill her yet. A few days later, Rachel was ordered to make a bonfire. She realized they meant to burn her at the stake ritual wished for a quick knife through the heart. She could not abide this slow gruesome death. She see that the indignity of it. She thought about the two children they had taken from her the family, they had stolen from her. And she grew enraged if she was going to die. She was going down fighting see dropped her sticks and stopped making the fire. Rachel loans that are mistress's daughter tackling her the two scraped at one another as crowd formed around them cheering them on Rachel jumped on top of the girl ready to finish her. But she couldn't bring herself to stoop so low she would not leave this life having taken another's. She stood once again ready to be killed. But instead she was met with cheers. Rachel stood in shock as the warriors around her chanted for her in the louder to walk away. Over the coming weeks. Rachel was not beaten or touched once she was still a slave, but she was treated with respect one of the Comanche chiefs explained to Rachel that Comanche fight normally ends in death by having the strength to leave the daughter alive. Rachel had won the respect of the Comanche tribe. It showed humility and better judgment, but respected or not Rachel was still a slave and growing weaker by the day. She couldn't carry heavy supplies anymore. She moved slower and could barely keep her balance on the long migrating walks. She became more of a burden than benefits. So the command she's agreed to ransom her in a Santa Fe trading post. In the spring of eighteen thirty seven Rachel was ransom to William Donohoe, a wealthy Santa Fe trader. Donohoe was immediately concerned by how sick Rachel appear to be. He sent word of Rachel's ransom to other traders in Texas, hoping the parkers with here took over six months for word reach James Parker in the winter of eighteen thirty seven James her that Rachel had been ransomed and was now staying on a homestead in Missouri with William Donohoe's family James was on bed rest due to illness. So he sent his son in law, Lorenzo Nixon to retriever by the time. The Renzo reached his sister-in-law, she was skin and bones too. Frail to stand on her own months of recovery had done nothing to help. She seemed beyond repair is not uncommon for trauma to take a toll on the survivors body long after the initial incident Alexander MacFarlane wrote in the center for military and veteran's health journal that many people were able to cope while undergoing. The trauma, but after their body perceives that they have been saved their health collapses almost like an extended adrenaline rush with an extreme crash afterwards McFarland goes on to conclude that of all the psychiatric disorders PTSD is the one with the strongest relationship with so much as Asian or recurring medical symptoms with no discernible 'cause PTSD can also be correlated with an increased risk of disease than musculoskeletal symptoms. Rachel's extended trauma likely made her extremely susceptible to these health risks seeing her brother-in-law lifted Rachel spirits enough to allow her to travel back home. Her husband Luther nursed, her back to health and within a few short months. Rachel was pregnant with her third child on January fourth eighteen thirty nine Rachel gave birth to her son Wilson plumber, but the pregnancy took its toll on her still. Frail body two months later on March nineteenth eighteen thirty nine. Rachel Plummer passed away in research leap, two days after that Rachel's infant son died and was buried next to his mother. The last word she told her father to bring her son, James Pratt back home. When we return James Pratt makes the long journey home. Love is patient. Love is kind. And sometimes love is deadly some couples may appear happy, but things may be different behind closed doors every week par. Cast new podcast crimes of passion. Analyzes the relationship. Dynamics in psychology that lead to betrayal crimes and even murder. New episodes of crimes of passion, come out every Wednesday right now, you can listen to the first episode on the deaths of Edwin and Wilma Hoyt whose dismembered bodies were found floating on the surface of a lake and look for upcoming episodes on the rain a Bob it. He Fisher enjoyed but a few co and the boyfriend killer Jodi areas out what happens when true love meets true crime search for and subscribe to crimes of passion wherever you listen to podcasts. Again, search crimes of passion or visit par cash dot com slash passion to listen now. Now back to the story. In eighteen forty two six years after the massacre at fort Parker general Zachary Taylor was appointed to lead fort Gibson, an army base in Oklahoma as one of his first axes general Taylor arranged a conference to make peace terms with friendly native American tribes in the area who told them that the Texan army would pay much higher ransoms than traders for any white captives still in their possession. If they'd be willing to release them on August twenty third eighteen forty two James Pratt. Plummer. Now. Seven years old was brought to fort Gibson by a band of Kickapoo natives looking to cash in on a higher ransom. It was the first any white person had seen of James Pratt. Plummer in six years. Because James had been taken as a toddler. He had been adopted by a family within the Comanche band. He was raised more like a son than a slave and was taught to hunt ride horses and fight as a Comanche. However, they still saw him as an outsider and with increasingly limited resources as the white settlers overtook, Comanche land, it made sense, stop caring for the child and take the ransom money. When the Kickapoo is brought James Pratt to fort Gibson. He was dressed in buffalo skins with no shoes on his feet and was covered from head to toe in scars from his training as a Comanche warrior general Taylor sent word to the parkers while they waited to hear back Taylor's officers began teaching James Pratt English, but he didn't adapt well to traditional schooling Taylor's men saw him as a bar Barrick young boy who couldn't sit still, but he was smart and caught onto English. Quickly then on September, twenty eighth eighteen forty two thirteen year old John Parker son of Silas and Lucy and the younger brother of now sixteen year old Cynthia Ann was brought to fort Gibson. He had been returned by the same band of Delaware natives that had ransom. His aunt Elizabeth six years earlier like his cousin James Pratt. John acted like a Comanche, boy and knew very little English. The officers put John together with his cousin who he instantly bonded with. They wrestled and spoke Comanche with each other which stifled James Pratt's progress in learning English, the officers considered sending one of them to another army base. So that they could continue their studies separately. But knowing what the boys had been through. They took pity on them and decided it was best to keep them together. Over these six long years, the elder James Parker had still frequented trading posts hoping to hear anything about his lost relatives. And finally in the fall of eighteen forty two James heard about the two young boys being held at fort Gibson, four hundred fifty miles away a set off at once he arrived at the fort in early eighteen forty three or officers brought him to see his grandson. He was shocked to see how John Parker looked so much like his mother finally after six years of searching, he had found his grandson and nephew Parker Sohn. A message to his wife Martha telling him that they would leave the next day for home, James Pratt. However was sceptical. He didn't know this man, and he wasn't comfortable being handed off to yet. Another stranger that night while everyone was sleeping James Pratt escaped from fort Gibson and ran James Parker and the. Officers spent the next few hours searching the nearby land for him it took half a day. But eventually they found him hiding in the woods, James heart broke for his young nephew. He thought of something that would help he told James Pratt Plummer that if you would make the journey home. He could meet his birth father, James Pratt. Plummer had never known family. The way other children had he loved his adoptive Comanche family, but curiosity got the better of him. It was enough to get him to agree to return home with James Parker, and John when the boys returned home. James Parker was slow to return. James pratt. Plummer to his father. Plummer had remarried shortly after Rachel and his infant son had died by eighteen forty two. He and his new wife had two young children and reliving nearby in Montgomery County when Plummer learn that is first born son had been returned. He asked his former father in law to send the child to him, However, James refused. He believed that Plummer did not deserve to raise a son because he never tried to find him on his own nor did he try to pay the ransom to get him back. The way James side if Plummer was not willing to pay James Parker back the four hundred dollar ransom. Then he didn't deserve to raise the son. He made no effort to save plumber didn't pay the ransom. So the boy remained with his mother's side of the family into adulthood with his grandson and nephew safe, Cynthia and became the only captive left. And frankly, James Parker was too old. And. Tire to go looking for her eventually his search ceased completely which intrude was fine by Cynthia Ann at that point. She no longer wanted to be found. Cynthia Ann was around seventeen when her brother and cousin were brought to fort Gibson. She had fully acclimated to the Comanche way of life and as far as she was concerned the Comanche where her family a few months into her capture she had been given to a Comanche couple with no children of their own. They raised her and treated Cynthia Ann is a loving daughter. It wasn't long before she had completely forgotten her old life at fort Parker by the time. She was a preteen. She had begun identifying as Comanche and went by new name Noorullah than one morning in eighteen forty four a visitor arrived at camp. It was John Parker cynthia's brother who was about fifteen now almost a man she barely recognized him. But she was glad to see him all the same. He told her that he had been returned to their family and pleaded with her to come with him. But Cynthia Ann refused. She loved the Comanche way of life. She wasn't going to leave the only family she remembered besides she was nineteen a woman and had her sights set on a strapping man she wished to marry and not long after their meeting. John himself decided he preferred the Comanche way of life a year or two later around eighteen forty six he ran away from the Parker homestead to live among the Kiowa 's he went on to become a renowned warrior in the tribe in his early twenties. His ban rated a settlement just below the Rio 'Grande during the raid. John captured a young Mexican woman and made her his wife eventually the two fell in love in the early eighteen fifties of few months after the raid. John contracted smallpox and was deemed terminally ill by his tribe. Fearing for their lives, the Kiowa swiftly packed up and left. John alone to die. Taking his wife along with them. But she refused to leave her dying husband. She ran away in the dead of night and came to John's aid, she nursed him back to health. Eventually he regained his strength and denounced his tribe forever. The two fled to Mexico where they live the rest of their days with his wife's family, but his older sisters Cynthia. Ann did not find such a happy ending. By the late eighteen forties. A fierce warrior named Pete in Kona was chief of cynthia's Comanche band. He had known Cynthia since she was a little girl. In fact, he was the warrior who had taken her from the fort when she was nine, and he was in his early twenties has Cynthia grew. He had fallen in love with her. He asked her adopted father for permission to marry her Cynthia ends adopted father was quick to grant the permission as Pete nocona was a respected warrior and beloved chief. What was more? He knew that Cynthia Ann returned Pete in conus feelings soon after the two were wed within a few months, Cynthia Ann was pregnant a few years later in the early eighteen fifties federal officials PM Butler and M G Lewis encountered Cynthia an as an adult on the wash atoll river. They guessed she was around twenty five at the time. And had two small children with her after that, no one would see Cynthia Ann Parker for nearly ten years. She lived among the Comanche devoted to her family. It's unknown. What Cynthia Ann's life was like during these ten lost years? But there is one clue that indicates she was a happy wife and mother. Her husband, Pete Kona was a high chief which meant he was expected to take multiple wives. But he never did Cynthia was the only woman he ever loved. In two thousand nine following an observational study David Alexander and Susan Klein were able to conclude that despite being in a life threatening situation. It is common for captives to forge positive relationships with their captors, especially if they're captivity is long-term this same study also postulated that captors likely feel more positive feelings towards their victims over time than they did when they were first captured Cynthia and remained among the Comanche for decades, while she is certainly an extreme example, it isn't hard to imagine that over time the entire tribe forgot that she was once a prisoner and loved her as their own family, but happiness wouldn't last forever. On December eighth eighteen sixty captain. Lawrence Sullivan Ross and forty Texas Rangers patrolling near the peace river came across a small Comanche band, packing up their settlement the warriors had already left to forge a trail west. So the women and children were left completely unarmed. The Rangers ambushed the tribe the women scattered outnumbered among them with Cynthia. Ann now about thirty four years old Cynthia Ann had no intention of waiting around for the soldiers to kill her and her baby at the first sight of the Rangers. She and assertive mounted horse and took off holding her baby tight in her arms. The captain and his first Lieutenant gave chase Cynthia Ann's servant urged their horse to move faster. But the men continued to close in Cynthia Ann wondered if they thought her servant was her husband and chief Peden and Kona. Cynthia Ann could feel her heart pounding as they thundered across the open prairie. She heard a gunshot behind her and felt something hot wiz by her ear second gunshot and pain shot through her shoulder. She fell off the horse clutching her baby to protect her from the fall, Cynthia N servant didn't stop. So the captain continued on after him the Lieutenant meanwhile stood over Cynthia Ann pointing his gun at her face. But after a few moments, he seemed to recognizer he helped her to her feet and said something, although Cynthia did not know what she understood, no English. We know. This sounds crazy. Since Cynthia Ann was a native English speaker until the age of nine, but according to every source, we've found Cynthia Ann or narrow as she now called herself had a simulated so well into the Comanche culture that she'd simply forgotten most of her English after years as a hostage she was no longer prisoner, but truly saw herself as Comanche, which is why what came next is so devastating the captain returned wearing her servants necklace calling himself Pete in Kona good Cynthia thought if the Rangers thought they had defeated her husband would buy him and the others time to make their getaway. But the thought of that broke her heart. She realized that in all likelihood she would never see your husband again. Meanwhile, back at camp, the Rangers suspected that this white woman was the long loss. Cynthia Ann Parker, captain Ross brought Cynthia Ann and her infant daughter top Santa or prairie flower back to his fort in Austin. She cried the entire journey at the fort Cynthia needed to be watched around the clock. She repeatedly tried to escape presumably to get back to her two sons Qana and Paco's and her husband Pete nocona Cynthia was understandably in a tough situation. She no longer spoke English and didn't understand why she had been taken and the last time she had been taken hostage. She never saw her family again. She had no reason to suspect. This time would be different. She was desperate to escape. Meanwhile, captain Ross posted a notice in the local newspaper stating that Cynthia Ann Parker had at last been found Isaac Parker Sint the ends up. Uncle saw the story and headed out for Austin at once, but when he met with Cynthia and she refused to speak. She ignored the translators questions about who she was and how she came to live with the Comanche tribe since the end spoke, no English and had no idea who this man was to her any information. She gave them could be used against her and her family, but then her uncle Isaac called her Cynthia. And it was the first time anyone had called her that in twenty five years and as much as she had forgotten everything about her life before the massacre after decades of answering to no Rula hearing her birth name stirred her she paused, according to Marla, Paul. Editor for health sciences at Northwestern University. When children experienced stressful memories, they can often block them out or convinced themselves. It was a dream these memories hide in their sub-conscious like shadows. This could explain why for instance, sin the an recognized her brother when he visited her in camp years before, but no longer considered the rest of her relatives to be family, an external trigger like hearing her birth name for the first time in years could be enough to pull the memory more clearly into focus, her uncle might have been missing key to helping Cynthia Ann fully remember her old life syncing that he had just connected with her Isaac told the translator to ask Cynthia Ann what that name meant tour and finally after weeks of silence. She retold the story of the massacre at fort Parker and everything that had transpired since. I was overwhelmed. Finally. After more than two decades. The Parker family was together. Again, he brought Cynthia N and her baby to his homestead in Oklahoma. She had trouble adjusting, but understood that returning to her Comanche tribe was not an option she had no resources and no idea where they were. She tried to make the best of things, but she missed her husband and her heart ached for her two sons. A couple of years later, her younger brother, Silas junior who was three at the time of the massacre. Brought Cynthia back to his homestead in vans county, Texas, but during the journey Cynthia ends daughter top Santa grew sick from influenza and died Shunde in was overcome with grief, she stopped eating and her health slowly began to decline despite silences best efforts he could not bring Cindy an back to good health. She was inconsolable top Santa had been the last link to the life that had been taken from her and without her Cynthia Ann felt utterly alone. It was too much to bear in eighteen seventy one Cynthia Ann Parker died at her brother's home in Texas, quite literally from a broken heart. She was forty three years old. She was buried alongside her daughter in Texas, she remained there until the early. Twentieth century when her body was relocated by her oldest son. Quantum Parker who had never stopped searching for her. She was replied it next to the rest of her Comanche family in Oklahoma. Those in an would never know it Quanta Parker would go on to be one of the greatest principal chiefs among the Comanche. He helped facilitate an agreement between Texas and many native tribes to stop violence in raids on both sides. He also convinced many Comanche bands to agree to settle on designated reservations rather than openly roam throughout the south west being both whites and native quantum Parker became a legendary ambassador between the native peoples and the settlers Sint the end was taken hostage twice each time. Uprooting her life in the family, the cherished her. She lived in died, a captive, but her son honoring her memory brokered. Peace agreements that ensured what happened to his mother would never be repeated. Thanks again for tuning into hostage. We will be back Thursday with a new episode. You can find more episodes of hostage as well. As all of par casts. Other podcasts on apple podcasts. Spotify Stitcher, Google play or your favorite podcast directory. Several of you have asked how to help us if you enjoy the show the best way to help is to leave a five star review. And don't forget to follow us on Facebook and Instagram at par cast and Twitter at par cast network. We'll see you next time. In the meantime, don't take your freedom for granted. Hostage was created. By max Cutler is a production of Cutler media, and as part of the par cast network. It is produced by Maxon Ron Cutler sound design by David Turk with production assistance by Ron Shapiro and Paul Moller additional production assistance by Maggie admire and Carly Madden. Hostages written by Zingo Murray and stars Irma Blanco and Carter, ROY. Don't forget to take advantage of our everything must go sale happening this weekend. You get twenty percent off everything in the store from February twenty-second to February twenty fourth depar- cast dot com slash merge. This weekend for twenty percent off. That's twenty percent off from February twenty-second twenty four at par. Cast dot com slash merch. Now that are episode is over checkout. Another great park cast show crimes of passion. Crimes of passion. Brings you stories of loving relationships that brim with intense emotion, and ultimately turned deadly shirt, a search for and subscribe to crimes of passion. Wherever you listen to podcasts, and please don't forget to rate and review.
Episode 500: Celebrating Episode 500 and the publication of Where We Bloom, with BLOOM Imprints Robin Avni and designer Cynthia Zamaria of Torontos House & Flower
"Hello again and welcome back to the slow flowers. Podcasts with deborah printing. Welcome to a very special episode of the slow flowers. Podcast episode five hundred heart of our weekly podcast series about slow flowers and the people who grow into sign with them which we launched in july of two thousand thirteen. Since then i have regularly featured the voices of influencers style makers pioneers and heroes in the slow flowers movement and today we celebrate an impressive milestone with episode five hundred. It's all about making a conscious choice. And i invite you to join the conversation. Pam the creative community as we discussed the vital topics of saving our domestic flower farms and supporting a floral industry that relies on a safe seasonal and local supply of flowers and foliage. This podcast is brought to you by slow. Flowers dot com the free online directory to more than eight hundred. And fifty floor's shops and studios who design with local seasonal and sustainable flowers and to the farms that grow those blooms. It's the conscious choice for buying and sending flowers and thank you to our lead sponsor for twenty twenty one farmer. Flowers pharma flowers delivers iconic burlap wrapped bouquets and lush abundant arrangements to customers across the us supporting more than twenty us flower farms by purchasing more than nine million dollars of us grown fresh seasonal flowers and foliage annually and by providing competitive benefits to two hundred and forty team members based in watsonville california and miami florida. Discover more at farm grow flowers dot com for each podcast episode. This year we will also think three of our major sponsors are next sponsor. Thanks goes too long field gardens. Which provides home gardner's with high quality flower bulbs and perennials. Their online store offers plans for every region and every season from tulips and daffodils to dahlia's caladiums amaryllis. Check out the full catalog at long. Field dash gardens dot com. It's been a busy and exciting week here at the slow flower society in january. You may remember that. I introduced you to creative director. Robin off me my partner and co founder of bloom imprint the book publishing branch of slow flower society. You can find a link to that episode in today's show notes and you'll hear us discuss the goal of telling stories by about slow flowers members through the medium of books. Blue and prince first title is at the printer right now and we can't wait to tell you all about it where we bloom is an information and ideas packed volume filled with thirty seven intimate and inspiring floral studios workshops storefronts and growing spaces like green houses and barns all home to create a flow enterprises of slow flowers members. You may have seen the cover art. Because i've shared a few sneak peeks across social media and insofar as recent newsletter. But today i'm excited to introduce you to the woman responsible for the delightfully engaging space featured as our cover destination to illustrate the concept of where we bloom. You'll meet symbolism. Toronto based designer flower growers and stylus studio is called. Cynthia zamora house and flower. Cynthia will share a bit about her journey with flowers. And the three of us robyn. Cynthia and i will discuss the central themes of where we bloom. I wrote about this in the introduction to the book i wrote this the importance of devoting space to the pursuit of one's art. The way environments can inspire individual expression and reflect once ascetic style and the ways one studio or workshop. Kenneth spire the senses. It's all part of where we bloom. There's also the intangible feeling of security and comfort that creative individuals may feel when they can escape to a destination where their ideas flourish and yes blossom. Let me tell you a bit. More about robin and cynthia and then jump right into the conversation. Based in gig harbor washington robin albany creative veteran in the media and high tech industries. Her experience includes more than fifteen years in the publishing industry and eight years at microsoft in design and creative management. She has successfully managed innovative award winning design teams and high profile projects as well as received numerous national design awards and photo editing honors for her own work. Robin has produced ten books including collaborating with me on the slow flowers journal volume one which was published last year and two thousand and four following microsoft. Robin founded brick lodge consultancy specializing in creative strategy content development and trend analysis. For home and garden. She has worked with fortune. Five hundred companies national advertising agencies and award-winning media properties applying timely actionable insight to their businesses. Robin received a ba in journalism from indiana university in bloomington and a night wallace journalism fellowship. At the university of michigan she holds a masters of communication in digital media from the university of washington based in toronto ontario. Canada cynthia zamora is an interior and floral designer known for character filled spaces and carefree floral displays with an infectious creative spirit and a belief that we all need more beautiful in our lives. Cynthia shares inspiration as an interior and floral editorial stylist content contributor writer and workshop teacher. Her work is regularly featured in leading lifestyle media an advocate of the slow movement. Cynthia sustainably grows small batch. Specialty blooms and designs unfussy seasonal arrangements this soulful aesthetic spills into cynthia's interiors which are true to the space trendless. A mashups of scale texture color cynthia and her husband graham share a passion for saving forgotten houses and they have restored a range of period properties. A former public relations executive cynthia now devotes her time to family and create projects from her home base in toronto. I'm so happy to welcome to create a friends as we discuss where we bloom and share the story of this beautiful book project with you all shared links to their social places. So you can find it. Follow robin and cynthia and check out our show notes for episode five hundred to see a few inside photos of the pages of where we blew. Let's jump right in and get started. Welcome back to the slow flowers. Podcasts with deborah printing and we have lots to celebrate. Today it is episode five hundred of those slow flowers. Podcast which is like boggles the mind. And every time we hit the mark of the next century i guess of episodes i have. I always want to have somebody special To just to make make it a party and today we have to special guests my partner rob and omni in bloom imprint. Hi robyn good morning. Deborah good morning celebrations all around. And you you all heard and matt met robin and heard from her when we launched bloom imprint in january and our very special guest. Is cynthia samara of cynthia samara house in flour based in toronto. Hi cynthia now and congratulations. Well back at ya Because big reveal here. Cynthia is our covergirl of where we bloom. Our brand new book that will be available in Just a just a week or so around april fourteenth so we wanted to have cynthia on to talk about her business and who she is so And you're a first time guest of the podcast and I just want to introduce you to the listeners. So i guess let me just give a little recap of where we bloom. And this book. This is the first title in bloom imprint The do publishing company. That is sort of the boutique. Publishing arm of slow flowers created by robin omni and me and we. We started with this book because it was a way to build community and feature a lot of Sloth hours members showing off their workspaces studios shops greenhouses potting sheds barns. You name it right robin yes. We definitely have a great variety from you. Know from kitchen and laundry room to beautiful outdoor Structures structures a good word for it The the subtitle of where we bloom is thirty. Seven intimate inventive and artistic studio spaces where floral passions find a place to blossom. And those of you who have known me for years as a garden writer. No that i wrote a book in two thousand eight called. Stylish sheds and elegant hideaways all about garden sheds. And there's definitely a crossover into this book but these are dedicated floral spaces and It's it's just. There is a diversity of of architecture and location and personality and design. Cynthia definitely was a standout for someone we wanted to have in the book with her aesthetic. But also we're going to hear from robin about how cynthia's floral office or whatever we call. It made it to the cover. But i i wanna talk a little bit about cynthia and Her business so On the cover people will see what looks like. I guess kind of a standard. What a potting shed. Basically right cynthia. How would you describe it and nine by twelve. Free built actually built by mennonites later on in the community. Were not our community where it ended up living and we customize a little bit but yeah you know you can get one of these beauties and you can make it your own yet Yeah i love the fact that you bring that up. It's almost like an a standard measurement and materials and so it could be something you could order from a local big box store or from builders in your community that go to the home shows and in and sell these sorts of things absolutely and we when we were looking for our studio audience. Shed our office when he liked to call. We had done that. We had gone to many different places. And look you. You can find on something like this at a lumber yard or as you ought store and the creativity and fun comes with how you can make your own and add your flavor. She wouldn't so it is incredible. How many people reached out to me after they seen this shit saying you know. How did you do this in. What did you do. How can i do that myself. And their various iron is so that's really rewarding. And i just hope that this helps empower people to take that shed. They may have in their backyard. That is kind of holding Tools and all the kinds of equipment and format in Couple of weekends later. You'll have your face. Well cynthia really reflects your preference for materials details and finishes and you brought a designers i to it so talk about some of the little upgrades that you did To this standard wouldn't structure I know that some were like you had a high low mix like some were more of an investment others. You made decisions about what not to spend money on right. Sure sure so. It was repainted. Used a lot of white hates my secret. Weapon is eight or black. Armoo shed to. We'll talk about later but This one we went white wanted a nice clean talent to do that. Talk in the work that you do. So a lot of paint A a large bench to levels. So you can have a large work service as well as an area underneath to Put supplies windows are really important to me. Look over a lake so we wanted to have a bank of windows that opened up over the late and also had these large Farm doors at the front that you could easily get in never balloons in annetta but also created at indoor outdoor feel So that was that was important to us to go that extra. Get windows in there but you know really you can do this with any kinds of jeter states that you have cleaned up left the plywood slower. The one luxury was to get water in there to get A sink but it was just a metal. Sing for my kia when those standard things that you can take with you from an apartment and these at four for water and then we had a hype installed well so those were the two luxuries because you to carry water at l. Set a lot. Well you brought you brought wa watering but you also brought power in right because the lighting choices. I thought were really inspired and fit the vibe of of the personality that you wanted to express miniature lots and lots of june. So we needed to carry-on one final question about the design. Cynthia did you Have a someone put on that metal roof. It's like a standing seam metal roof or some kind of not. So you know when you go to places. Look at these sheds you can usually customize them or there's different types of finishes Got a regular black. Sheila ler gration. Yeah i like. I like the metal a lot at the sound of rain on the on tin roofs quite loudly. So yeah we do enjoy that. I love that well. I was selected to be the cover photo. And i just think because i'm buchner and robin is to and week out on things like this. As to you. Cynthia it would be fun to hear from robin. How that all came to be because we decided pretty early on about the cover because we wanted to just let people know of. The book was in the works so we did have to design it early and robert. Can you talk about that process will. Yeah absolutely i'd love to because it's it's that magic that we love deborah right and you know You text you texted me and you said you have to look at these photos that we just got in so we hopped on zoom. And we've looked at them and i was like. Oh my god so we should give a shout out to robin stewart. Who is the photographer of all of the images of cynthia's Cynthia shed and did owner amazing job and we started looking. And we're like oh my god. This is more than a one page spread. This is two pages. Wait this is three pages and then we thought well this just has the potential for the cover but we also were looking at two others for the cover as well so we put them all out there and you and in our graphic designer Jimmy diaz got together and we looked at them mocked up a few but this was a clear winner so we went from three to one and we were thrilled to be there And we worked on the topography and we worked on the crop but we thought we had one that we liked. 'cause we just basically put the whole shed on cover and you know. Jenny came back to me. And says you know i mean. It looks good but it's not. It's not wow ing me like it should because this is such a spectacular photograph so we went back to the drawing board and we realize for this book and a lot of books were doing. What's called a gate fold. Flap which means inside when you open it up. There's a flap that you can stick things in messages and papers but also we got. Oh my gosh. We should utilize this design tool so what we did was. We started playing with the crop of the photo at we came out with cropping. It cropping part of the door out the right hand to her out which just shows up on the flap and the way it's all cropped and that it presents is like it's welcoming you into this set it's welcoming you into this book and then if you flip open the flap urine side so the the visual metaphor is really wonderful for the type of book that this is talking about these spaces and it's just because we had robbins beautiful beautiful to talk to work with that we were able to really leverage at make a spectacular cover like and just in hearing your description about the welcoming. The photo really lent itself to that. Because the way at and. We're going to hear about cynthia as a photo stylus. Because i know cynthia was to the credit for for this the doors were sprung open and you could see right into the space the interiors and all the things that robin had just mentioned like the shells where the buckets of blooms are and all the tools and the windows. it was just. That photo worked in so many ways because the doors were open. It wasn't a an exterior only shot. It gave you a little bit of interior as well. Right exactly and also was surrounded by green and the lushness of the idea of being out whether it's in the flower field in the garden so it really had that Sense of An atmosphere about it. That made you wanna be inside one of those. You know you want it that in your backyard. You know you wanted to be able to go out and say what can i do if i had something like this i. I guess that's part of the art and science of book jacket designer anyway. Isn't it like you really have to communicate everything that's inside just at a glance on the cover exactly it has to. It has to welcome especially when you're talking about spaces right you know and visual. We're very visual. We do flowers. We do spaces so you have to visual as well and and to capture that all in one photo you know when he got it finding it is that that that search that that magical search. Wow well everyone. who's listening. Ken see the cover and of course some interior spreads in the show notes for today's episode. Five hundred at deborah printing dot com. But i wanna turn The tension to cynthia now. And just talk about you. Cynthia and your work because We met a couple years ago when i was at a event in toronto. And you know. We didn't have a lot of time to talk but we immediately started following each other on instagram. And you've you just came across my transom very frequently and i always loved what you posted and you know. It's just fun that full circle we. We're now doing a book together. Two or three years later. So tell us about cynthia. Zamora house and flower What is what is your wants. Your what what drives you really is A fusion of passions. which are interiors and flowers. I've always had A desire to mingle those and mary those to my interests together and my path is not in linear like many of us. I'm sure getting to where you wanted me. And sometimes the journey itself. has lots of twists and turns and for me. That's for sure. On the. I started twenty five years ago working in public relations and communications and that was my career that was like profession and on the side. I always dabbled in home improvement. Projects always had gardens. I always loved flowers. So it's taken twenty five years and what. I joked to say like midlife crisis instead of buying a motorcycle Growth lowers in start with lower. Because that's so much easier i thas. Why way expensive justified sports car right and a lot less than aggravation but no really seriously. This has been incredible journey. And not easy to describe when i do because Do anything in a. It's hard to put a label on it. But i would say most. If you wanted to encapsulated it is creating beautiful spaces. And sharing in his firing at is firing others in giving them the confidence to do the same having a look at things differently and That's why i'm so honored. Thank you very much for Putting our work on the covering in book because as excited to honor and thank you will you bet and is robin hinted at their three spreads which adds up to six full pages which we have a few of those Larger stories. But you know it's one of the biggest and So people can read You know your personal experience of connecting flowers and interiors and You know what really happened at the end of that story of Flower firming because the the the the structure is in in a cutting garden Went the way it was if you pull back beyond what you see on the cover. It's surrounded by flowers and you had planted your own mini farm in a area a residential area where people aren't used to seeing flowers right. Yeah that's right so let me take you back. Twenty five years just for a second and an important story to tell. Because i think people should think about their business or what they wanna do. And how Sometimes taking risk for having some trust in yourself helps you get there So and i my husband One of our first houses together was sweet. A row house in downtown toronto victorian. We had fixed it out we. Diy into the. We'd love that house in started family in it and we had painted our front door this olive green and it was christmas time and we had this beautiful red berry wreath on the door and that was just kind of what we did love to make our house privy decorate and One day someone knocked on her door and it was a magazine editor and she said you know. I was just walking in the neighborhood. I love what's on your door and would you mind if you took voters of it and put it in our holiday issue for regina cetron. Yes of course you know come on in and we signed a release we showed showed women ran. She said to us. Are you designer. I said no not really You know We'll get out of your works in a magazine be photographed and we said no but be control. Sure let's let's do this right. So that was the beginning. Twenty five years. Everyone of our homes. And you'd had a few along the way had we have had had collaborations Into knee leveraging my love of interiors and flowers Into to doing styling work in growing flowers to do styling were in for special events in for certain things so that that just goes to say this is something that has been in me for a very long time and has been something that i've developed over the years and played around with it recreationally and then about four years ago. We decided to make a big move and i left my career. Npr and We decided to start flower farming at this property that we had which was our our country begin. Place that goes Small little house on it. But we had a lot of field and i learned and learned and attended some workshops and did all they could to understand about the flower industry and business courses lok sloth our admit which was very important to me To do this very sustainably And that was the beginning and that was about four years ago. Wow you're you're absolutely right like when you describe this this wonderful story about the olive door in the red berry wreath which i don't think robin i have heard that story before so i just wanna see that photo. Yeah i wanna see that photo to. And i also have to say i love this story because it talks about how these things grow and bloom right which is exactly i mean deborah's and my relationship it very similar we. We met about fifteen years ago. And now we're working together because it evolved that way. So i love that history. Cynthia having shared ya and they know like cynthia. You said you don't know how to describe your business but back when that editor reached out to you little. Did you know there was a way to create a profession that blended all of your interest into in that photo. Styling as part of that but it's also Content development and you know writing a blog in producing articles for magazines and like all of that uses many of the skills you had in pr and marketing as well as your hobby that you and your husband were doing with home renovation. Right athletes amazing. How things come together and say that like is now in the you know. They're going to school in there you're listening. They don't know exactly what they're going to do when they grow up. And you know it sounds trite but really do follow your heart. Follow what you love. And it's amazing how things will collide and it. You know. you'll find something that you love to do. And that's really what happened with us and the other thing is to not be afraid to change your mind right so You know the place that we talked about for years ago that we started to grow this flower farm on We had gotten one year under our belt. We were ready to our family there. We had renovated the house there. And we're ready to embark on this new lifestyle. When something crossed her cat it had changed our mind. And i love the expression one of my favorites which is sometimes on the way to your dream. You get lost in you find a better way and we did. In that instance. We decided that that place in that enterprise is not going to be right for us at that time in our lives with our kids in where we were and we happened to find this youthful home. a heritage from eighteen fifty seven in unity where my husband grew up. It had a couple of acres a week. At least you know have a nice garden on and that we decided to change gears and we we went that route. And that's the subject that you're seen on the cover of the book the quote. You gave us Cynthia course robin. I love that and it is a pull quote in your chapter in where we bloom about getting you know kind of a sidetrack and finding a new dream on your journey so for you. You've had this happened to you multiple times but the one you're alluding to then is when you bought the miller house which is what the shed where the shed resided. That is on the cover. Yes yes so You know one of my favorite aside from dixie neck has mandated introduced to definitely look real estate. I have a little bit of a edition streak in me. And i'm always looking for projects that i do love to water most romantic and i. I love to imagine ourselves in those cases in different places in our lives. So i was trolling real estate listings. Normally do and there's a beautiful home. It came up for sale In a community where my husband happened to look grown up which is just outside of toronto. An hour and a half on shore of lake erie. It's in a community called dover dover at its amidst the small community where you've got you know. Some old homes in some large large properties is we had you know some land and we can always wanted to restore a true historic home and we found her and we fell in love with her in. That was kind of the end of it so we left the lower arm and we decided. Okay what will this into something where we got at least three quarters today where we can have a big cutting garden. We can do workshops. We can grow small-scale for events. And of course i could use it for styling in for teaching that kind of thing in creating content so that began that journey and we refer to enough to be able to live in toronto. Will we rented at home. We could go back and forth Live through meditation. So that was a real treat. First time when percents. That's happened so at the garden was very much. A part of a house and house is very much part of the guard Which is really how you approach living. Yes just your life philosophy. Yes yeah grandma. And i both always grown up with gardens and our parents were both very much into agricultural crawling at it. The that we wanna to Has long tarsha so having earns going vegetables. Flowers in very important just will you talked about creating content and basically if anyone visits your website which will share the link. There are multiple Kind of departments showing some of the collaborations that you and graeme have lived through while breathing. Breathing new life into old properties It in general. You it's a whole it's whole property. Approach here you'll do the put as much emphasis on renovating garden as the home interiors right. That's still really important. Making sure that we have space to grow and miller house also had an old coach house where which was also turned into a studio space so We've got the potting. Shed garden outside. And then there's another interior. Space is going to be used for workshops in also just doing design work so that was very much important to us interests in having to sign the home and ensure that homes. Look there's flow But surrounding yourself with with flowers wherever you are whatever you do whether it's a business or a hobby is something that's really important. And we're bringing that into the new place that we have. Because you know spoiler alert. We're not in that house. Yeah yeah we're on tour. Seven has now and i never say never but were staying put. Well okay you've you've let the cat out of the bag. You have a new project. And i want to ask robin to jump in and help us tell the story about the next chapter of our collaboration with you cynthia. Because when we first met workforce we're on the west coast. You're on the east coast. We've had a lot of zoom meetings and I introduced you to robin. And we started looking at your website and your gallery of photos that you had produced with Robin and other photographers. And it. kind of started dawning on robin omni. That there was something that could lead to a new project. so brabin. Why don't you talk about what how you sort of drank that all in and digested it and came up with something. Brilliant for us to cynthia. Next well i think hito the gorgeous photography And the Was photographed was so gorgeous and so simple and beautiful at just. I just remember asking cynthia g other than the website. Is there anything else that we could look at. And she sent me these. These you know links to dropbox photos and it was right around the holidays. I think and i started going through it and it. Was you know a late. One night and suddenly i started mocking up covers and spreads with her stuff in a leg. Oh we got a book care is. You're i'm hooked. I'm her gorgeous to think she would do one. I texted deborah. And so that's when we started talking to you because then we realized that you were renovating your current house of the ludi house. And i saying that correctly and that it had a garden and that it had interiors heritage and also ego what what. It was a great story. Aside from what you're doing but that we could actually live through this renovation with you. And i have to tell you. Some of the on renovated photos gorgeous renovated photos so so then we just started talking about what that might be and we are thrilled because cynthia has so many great ideas and has such great. I and and i also want to say Your design is not what. I would call fussy even down to like the flowers right that that. It's very approachable and yet elegant and so I think it's really inspiring to see and deborah. And i agree on this. Democrats are too which is to see that you are taking what is out near garden and making it just blend seamlessly into your home That it is truly is called house and flower because that is exactly what it is is that is wonderful. Planned that that you create and We couldn't be more thrilled. Yeah so i did you thank you And i couldn't be happier to share this and and hopefully inspire others to take whatever space that they're in and transform it into something that they wanted to do. Whether that's you know whether you've got an old house or a brand new house whether you live in an apartment There's always something that you can do to make at stays personally yours in to inject it with using a lot of beauty and of course always very much for me and i want to encourage people to do that and the people probably listening to this call. Flowers are a very much part of what they do and they can appreciate at naked see. That certainly made their customers are searching for that are searching for the lift in the love that lowers brings into their lives. So i think that this is a book that will appeal you know. Hopefully people love flowers and people who wanna learn how to use flowers in their lives and their homes in a in a way. That's not so hard to do and is and as you say hussien kind of uncontrolled and very natural and very much in keeping with sustainable movement and letting flowers stand their own envious beautiful as it can be just as they are. So that's a lotta philosophy young and you really are in this. I think unique. Sweet spot of crossover between Lifestyle and and flower growing. Because we're seeing so many people know in in the kind of home gardener category wanting to grow their own cutting garden That's clear that's been documented for the past year of explosion coverted gardening basically but once they do that once they've harvested. Those flowers are grown them. How do they incorporate them into their daily lives or into their interiors. And that's i feel like that's the crossover part that your book will be showing people and also just the personal thought process of renovating a house which we also think is a you know continuing to be a subject of interest. I know rob if you want to add to that or not well actually it's One of the explosions that happened during covid with people spending so much time at home. I know there's been a lot of coverage of people who are moving And there's been a lot dedicated to that but remodeling is off the roof. Small scale and large scale and so This is this is sweet spot of people really making their home inside al somewhere that that they they love to be which is not going to go away. that will not go away. We will be able to venture out more but we still wanna love the space that we're in. Yeah that's great. So cynthia is in the midst of this renovation. And how are you approaching it. Cynthia you i know. You've got a rough outline but are you having to be superintendent attentive and intentional about photographing everything you're doing so it gets captured for the book. Yes i take photographs of almost everything anyhow so. I think this is become more intentional. Because i've got in my iphone back In what you're doing so i'm doing more but You know that was something that i learned how to take talk. I learned a lot about on my own. And i just wore. I can take the better. I can get. I mean if they can take the one. I yoke as. She's being very good photographer as well. And i stalk her on her instagram account. Say oh we need that one for the book soon. Right joshi is an iphone. Get the real photo right. I'm like you're taking a picture of that right. Logos are actually a real camera. I upload them but Yeah i mean. The challenge is trying to balance to give everything away but tissue the process because the process is really I think is really important and the decisions they make as you renovate a home. We like to call it Grain and i. It's much more of a gentle renovation. Because we always take have in her soul. I we work around that and as we stripped back the house in she really reveals herself to us. That's really where a lot of the design elements come in. We work with the space that we have. And that's really exciting so we had some surprises in this house. We've taken off some old. You know plywood boards that were up advance really incredible things behind it. That are going to end up eating some of the features in the home though uttering at miller has the other home we had an encircling. This very much philosophy to H you be gentle with it. Use what you've got endo be taking some risks new. That's all you know rooms in high done. It had we had a really back room. You know bright strawberry pink in the ceiling. Gold like we did. The belvedere at miller has those event that the some of the most magical spaces so you senior is fun too so we've got use an hour like we don't run into the same thing again so every state is different. It's a lot. Yeah and you know. It's so interesting. Cynthia when i when we first started to getting to know each other better. I just have the assumption that you wanted to have this like interior design business and you want to have clients and you know you've confessed to me that You know that's yes. You get asked all the time but that's really not where your heart is. Your heart is doing your own projects that become content you you can use for for publishing and An online or for other publications. And that's really what excites you because such an extension of your personal aesthetic An client will have their own aesthetic and that might not float your boat as much and that's not bad. It's just good to know. Actually i would also add debra that i think in cynthia correct me if i'm wrong but it just getting to know you and listening to you and working on the book that you also see educational component and all of what you do and that's important for you to share now part of when you you know when a house appears in a magazine if there's always lessons along the way and your blog is very much about here's how you could do it so I see that as as that component as a very strong element as well. I i agree. Yeah most importantly confidence that they can do this. I think that so. Oftentimes you know paralyzed took. Should i take the wall. Blew or should i page wider. And you know you can make that decision than you can do. What suits you. And it's your space in. You need to love your space in with the guard you can garden garden as long as it brings you joy and it makes you happy. That's what's matter. So that's why would deborah was saying you know. Sometimes it's a challenged mita to see myself working some other people who I wanted to be their space. They have to own it. And that's why designing brothers is sometimes a challenge. I rather do this way. And inspire them in. Give on tips and tricks in ideas. And then you take that digest what you will take what you can and leverage that edgier own home and you'll have something that is truly yours in love the one caveat though I'm starting to work actually on an exciting project with a a local builder who's start. Who's transforming alive. The homes in our neighborhood and so working on new sort of semi new is actually kind of an exciting thing because you got a cart launched and he can work together to imagine who would like to live in this house and design it for them. Ns that's really exciting for me but building on what you were saying earlier about gardens face is one of the things that i really want to advocate in. His new homes is garden space and creating gardens not just landscaped backyards but places where people can grow raised beds whatever it is depending on the specific and blow property. We need to satisfy that. You're in that people have right now to grow and that has certainly been one of the positive outcomes of quoted. 'n people being at home more. Which is you know. They're coming back to roots. You're really taking more of an interest in growing things in flowers Sharing that with their family. So that's something for me. That's really exciting. When i look at my backyard right now and you'll see this in the new book you know we got. The whole yard is gone. It's raised garden beds. And when i look across the yards. They're you know they're they're not used their pieces of grass than i really want. These people start rolling and hope to inspire people to do that. I'm what i'm taking away from. This conversation is really like your. You share your lessons learned and buy in doing so inspire and empower other people to use some of these but put their own spin on it and that i think is really why your Your new book Which were so excited about how some flour will be really universally beneficial for anybody who picks it up. We don't have exact pump date but robin. What are we looking at january. Yes i think. We're looking at december january. And more realistically i think will be in january just knowing how the pace of the the Construction goes we have. We're able to turn around very quickly. Which is which is really lovely thing to be able to do but we also have to not make sure that we don't exhaust graham and cynthia. It's a wonderful collaboration. And we're just getting started on it because we had to get Where we blew him off to the printer before we could give it to our subsequent titles so there's a lot more information about cynthia's new book on our website Where we bloom. And also i do. I did see cynthia that you started posting about the book on your website. So that's a really fun to have the big reveal and now be able to start building up anticipation and excitement for that Because it's going to be really really fun for us to have a have a title. That has that kind of inclusivity interiors and interior styling. Because you're really you're opening up a new category for us. It's exciting for me. So thank you so very much. You bet. well we are going to have an official book launch for where we bloom. It will be a virtual book. Launch on april twenty-seventh It won't be Know super involved but just sort of like everybody who hears this We'll be posting on our Bloom imprint dot com and also on our instagram feed. which is at bloom. Dot imprint More details Forthcoming and You'll get to see more about the book and Maybe we'll have some fun giveaways and just have a toast to our inaugural book and our covergirl. Hopefully cynthia can be there. Too and and robin will Of course co host that with me so just a whole month celebration. Once this baby gets published right yes okay well. I think we've had a fun conversation. It's wonderful to commemorate Both the podcast Milestone of five hundred episodes and episode five hundred and. It's also a wonderful to have something really new and exciting to talk about with two people who i adore and both of you for Bursting this beautiful book with us Right that gotcha. Deborah right back at the at thank you so much for joining us today. This has been really a wonderful wonderful conversation. And just getting me revved up about your new book thank you so much. Okay thanks a lot robin. We'll talk to you soon. Okay now everybody. Thanks so much for joining me. Today you can pre-order a signed copy of where we bloom hat bloom imprint dot com and we are offering bulk discounts to floral retailers. So reachout if you're interested in quantities. Don't forget to join robin and me along with many of talented sophomores members featured in where we bloom at our virtual book launch party on tuesday. April twenty-seventh at four. Pm pacific seven pm eastern. We'll be sharing some giveaways and introducing you to a few creatives featured in our pages. You can find the link in our show notes today. if you're in the seattle area please come out and say hello at two upcoming book. Signing events will be wearing our mass and observing careful social distancing practices. I promise on may first from two to four in the afternoon. Jillian matthews and ravenna gardens. Seattle spooky cullman garden emporium will host signing and we expect the some of the creatives featured in where we bloom will join us on may eighth from one to three in the afternoon. We'll be at paper delights in burien just outside seattle where we are joining theresa row of bel tall at her mother's day floral pop-up theresa is featured in the pages of where we bloom. So we're thrilled to share this event with her to find out what's next for blue imprint. Sign up for our newsletter and follow us on social media. All have those links for you in today's show notes later this year bloom. Imprint will publish to exciting books. By slow flowers members. I will release an essential guide to rose growing from felicia alvarez of menagerie farm and floral and then we'll publish holly chapels long-awaited first book a life in flowers. We have four other titles in the cadillac for twenty twenty. Two including as you heard cynthia's maurice book house and flower what dynamic lineup of creativity our next sponsor thank. You goes to read. Twig farms based in johnstown ohio. Red twig farms is a family owned farms. Specializing in peonies stephenville's tulips branches a popular peony bouquet by mail program and their special spread the hope campaign where customers purchase. Ten tulip stems for essential workers and others in their community. Learn more at red twig farms dot com and save the date for this friday's april member. Meet up for the slow flowers community. That's right on. Friday april ninth. You can join our monthly meet up via zoom. The time is always nine. Am pacific noon eastern. This month we welcome to slow flowers leaders who will share their approach to sustainable floral design and green practices. Learn more about the definition of sustainability in floral design and gain insights about. How can you can adapt your floral enterprise to be safer healthier and more beautiful. You'll learn from toby nelson of toby nelson events and design. She's based on whidbey island in washington state and from becky fees be of prairie girl. Flowers based in calgary alberta canada. You can find the like to join us in today's show notes and come prepared to ask your questions about this important shift in florida street. We'll have some fun giveaways and you might win. One of our drawings are final sponsor. Thank you goes to the seattle wholesale kroger's market a farmer owned cooperative committed to providing the very best the pacific northwest has to offer in cut flowers foliage and plants the brewers markets mission is to foster a vibrant marketplace that sustains local flower farms and provides top quality products and services to the local floral industry visit them at seattle wholesale growers market dot com. Thanks so much for joining us today. The sofas podcast has been downloaded more than seven hundred and eleven thousand time speidel listeners. Like you we wrapped up the month of march with thirteen point. Five thousand downloads. Wow that's the highest in the past year. thank you for listening commenting and sharing a means so much. As our movement gains more supporters and more passionate participants who believe in the importance of our domestic cutler industry. the momentum is contagious. I know you feel it too. I value your support and invite you to show your thanks to support slow flowers ongoing advocacy education and outreach effort you can find the donate button in the column to the right. Pat debra printing com. I'm deborah printing host and producer of the slow flowers. Podcast next week. You're invited to join me and putting more slow flowers on the table. One vase at a time. And if you like what you hear please consider logging onto items and posting listener review. The content and opinions expressed. Here are either mine alone or those of my guests alone. Independent of any podcast sponsor or other person company organization. The slow flowers podcast is engineered and edited by andrew. Brennan learn more about his work at sound body movement dot com.
1902: Cynthia Ruiz: Become the CEO of Your Life
"Welcome to the conscious. Milliner show episode number nineteen zero two. Hi my name. Is cynthia harris and onto days conscious millionaire show. I am going to be sharing how you and become the ceo of your life. Welcome to conscious milliner. The number one. Show very conscious entrepreneurs and ceos on a mission to build a highly profitable business that makes a positive impact on egypt's discover how to make bigger money. Create a bigger impact and live vigor. Live you're listening to the conscious meaning network per by over twelve million listeners. In one hundred ninety countries now join your host jay chrome the third the conscious meaner mentor master. Nlp coach speaker and author of the number one international bestseller conscious millionaire. Grow your business making a difference. Are you an entrepreneur coach. Who's tired of feeling stuck or looking at your bank account and he just looks way to empty. The truth is you were born to make millions. And i wanna help you fill your bank account by gifting you my born to make millions empowerment audio download the born to make millions audio right. Now go to conscious millionaire dot com forward slash make millions. That's right claim your financial freedom. Now by going to conscious millionaire dot com forward slash. Make millions i this. Jv and i am totally excited. You've join me as you know. This isn't just a podcast and a syndicated radio show. it's an entrepreneurial training for you. The entrepreneur coach business owner who wants to put more money in the bank. But you wanna do it by making a bigger impact a difference with your life do something you feel as meaningful and it also makes you happy and fulfilled. Well i have a good friend of mine here for her fourth visit to millionaire. She's an author professor executive coach and speaker and jack canfield whose frequented the show as well said she is one of the most well informed deeply wise kindhearted and articulate people. I have ever met. I will second that jack. Today's guests shares the wisdom. She's gained from being a member of the cherokee nation coupled with her years in major leadership roles in government. My guest today from los angeles california. Cynthia ruez cynthia. Thank you so much for joining us again. We know jv. I can't believe you keep s me back four times. I am so blessed and grateful to call you. My friend and i love all the work that you're doing because yes it's about money and making lots of it but it's also about join it in a conscious way so that's what i love coming on your show because i believe in you while i appreciate that i wanna tell you folks you wanna get cynthia's book have linked to it on the show notes at conscious millionaire's show dot com or you can just go directly to amazon cherokee wisdom because one of the things. I definitely value on my own conscious. Millionaire journey is the wisdom that other people bring to the earth that i get to learn from. And it's like you get a multiplier when you tap into somebody else's wisdom because it may have taken you twenty thirty forty years to acquire that wisdom and all of a sudden you can start you know literally dividing it into your life and utilizing it the way that you read it our topic today folks is incredibly interesting. Become the ceo of your life. And what i most want to get out is how you do that by applying business principles so a lot of people when they have a title like that it stays over like in the life coaching. Nothing wrong with that. But you've really integrated. That's why i think it's so great for entrepreneurs so tell me what does it mean to you for someone to actually become. Ceo of their life. Well let's break it down. What is the ceo. The ceo is a person in charge right so become. The ceo of your life is really about taking charge of your life and if you're unhappy with your life in any way guess what you can make different choices. We live in a world of free. Will we all have free will. And we all have the ability to make choices so if there's an area that you're not happy with in your life your life your career is not where it should be your relationships not where it should be. Guess what you have the power to make different choices to make changes. I mean it's that simple. I mean people complicated everything but to become the ceo of your life. It's about empowering yourself to make choices to really lead the life that you wanna live pseudo. I'm curious we didn't talk about this before the show. But i think there's a relationship here i remember a time period and it wasn't that long ago is about ten years ago when i woke up and began to realize that i had forget all the accomplishments all the external stuff that i was still not the hero of my own life because i had made other people to hero like my father i had really taken care of him while he was in on his on his journey to leading and but i had failed to make myself the hero and started shifting. And i think there's a relationship between being allowing yourself to be the hero of your life. And and i'm saying that because i'm one of those people like most of the people that i had tracked his clients an so. Many of the people who come to conscious is i'm naturally somebody who sorts for other people. I and sorts for myself second. And i had to really learn about boundaries and taking care of me and there seems to be a relationship between yes i finally get to be the hero and an. I'm now going to be the ceo not somebody else. What's the relationship between those two ideas. Well i i believe that becoming the coo of your life and taking charge really starts with south improvement and all south improvement starts with south reflection. The bottom line is that we go through life and we have different experiences. Some good some bad and that creates emotional baggage so self reflection is about taking a look at yourself your life and jbs in your case. What was it that caused you to put everybody else i. It's good to be a giving person right but you all have to receive an a lot of times it from our childhood. Maybe you didn't feel worthy so you had to make everybody else more important than yourself so everybody has emotional baggage and experiences so by doing south reflection and really identifying areas where you can improve on letting go of your emotional baggage then once you're happier and healthier you're more successful. You have better relationships in your life so again you know. South improvement starts with south reflection. We have to hold up the mirror and look at ourselves and what areas we need to improve in our live to become the ceo of our life. We'll folks right coming up next and you really want to stay tuned for this. We're gonna be talking about business. Principles applied to your daily life. But i want to comment back on what you've brought up here. Cynthia and and the reason to comment on this is that so many people you know when you get forty and older indisposition so i had. My father was a ten year dying process right and i was an only child and so i said well. I've got to take care of my dad. I've got to be there. I actually moved. He wasn't paying his bills. That's a good thing i mean. I really think that we should honor our parents in. Honor your case ancestors but the thing that you might find yourself and i've counseled a lot of people. Just just helping them out with. This is that we can what i did. And it's what we can do is human beings is lose ourselves in that process because we become so involved in taking care of the other person as a caretaker that we forget that we have a life and i realized when when it was all done my father had died and i was going through the estate in the house and handling that i finally came to a realization. And that's what. I was referring to earlier cynthia that i had let my father become the hero of my life because i was so focused on his issues and the things that he was able to take care of for himself. And if you're in that position. I want you to take what cindy is going to describe about a ceo and remember that you can care for others but don't give up yourself and don't give up your role as ceo of your life in that process. Absolutely i couldn't agree more. And actually i went through something. Similar my mom's eighty eight and has dementia and to be quite honest. We never really had a good relationship but this year no. She's requires a twenty four hour care. This year. i actually went through a process myself of forgiving. Her of forgiveness so now at whatever point she does make her transition. I m okay. With that. Because i don't have that emotional. Baggage debt was created growing up. So we all can can really live a better life and become the see though if we let go of all of our baggage in our stuff and we all have it. I don't care who you are my act like you don't you do we all have it. So let's talk about the specifics. Now i know that you're you're listening. You're interested in this. How how do you apply business. Principles to becoming the ceo of your life cynthia. Well let's take a basic business principle when you start a business you write a mission statement for the business right because is around that mission statement would about writing a mission statement for your own individual life my missions personal mission statement is i want to be a beneficial presence on this planet but most people don't even think they just go through life and they don't think what is my purpose. What is my mission in life. So the first one is writing that mission statement. The other one is doing three sixty evaluation. I'm an executive coach. I use this a lot with my clients doing a three sixty evaluation. What i ask people to do is described themselves in five words or phrases then once they do that. I asked him to go around people around them. This is a three sixty part. Ask your family your friends. your co workers your subordinates. To describe you and five words and also because Most people listening are entrepreneur. So ask your clients and maybe ask people who are suppliers. They provide some services or products to you. What it's like to interact with you. I think that's a fascinating place to to get feedback on who we really are. It's interesting because people come back in their shocked. Wow i thought. I perceive myself as one way. Cut everybody else around me perceives as differently. So don't you want those to to be in alignment and the bottom line is people don't usually ask for feedback from others. It'll ask for feedback from their family. Their clients they just do what they think is right so having that sixty evaluation the next thing is when you start a business you write a business plan right. Well i have people right the equivalent in their personal life. And i call it the roadmap. So really mapping out your entire life in all areas of your life from family to career to your hobbies really looking at your life. Holistically and setting goals setting targets and setting timelines so development develop the equivalent of a business plan for your life. And so that's what i mean about business principles and applying them to your daily life because for whatever reason people don't mix the two they try to keep it separate. I think that's really important especially for entrepreneurs because one of the biggest things. And i am saying this as guilty partner that i've done this us that we can get so lost in our business side of our entrepreneurial journey that we forget that we have a personal side like today recording but from five to seven. I'm going to out nature into park. I'm picking up. See you know what. I'm reading folks. I'm reading deepak. Chopra's most recent book and and i'm going to spend a couple of hours reading and writing in the bulk because folks if you have my book conscious millionaire grow your business by making a difference. I even put it in the first part of the book. You have my permission to write all over it highlighted color. It whatever you want to do that. With every book i read. I wonder if you know before we go to break. I want to go back to the one concept of medicine statement and different people define that differently. Right what do you. What do you mean by mission statement and could you give some you know little bit instructions so anybody listening here could start with writing their mission statement. Well absolutely what is the mission statement of a company. It's the why. Why does that company exist. And so once you write your mission statement in business than everything that you do should be in alignment with that mission statement For example i think amazon when they developed their company in their mission statement was to be a A global Market on the internet right to sell things because when you think about amazon. They don't really sell anything. They're just the middle person so that was their mission so everything that they don't create most of their products that they don't they don't produce it. They're just the middleman right. I mean when amazon started what they still when they started with books only actually and so their mission. Your mission can evolve but it's usually the same thing so for me my mission being a beneficial presence on this planet. That's the lens. I look through so everything that i do. I say okay is am i by this action. Am i being beneficial presence. And it's something so basic because all businesses should have a mission statement some have vision of difference between mission statement and vision statement. Is the mission. Statement is the why the vision statement is more. Aspirational save for example. The alzheimer's association their vision is to have no body on this earth having alzheimer's so vision statement is aspirational and mission. Statement is the why. Why does that company exist or as an individual. Why do you exist at what i love about this and you know i do a lot of work with with many of my clients on purpose and bringing that into their vision. Bring it into their business. Is it it really. Does you touched on that. cynthia. Is i very consciously. Choose everyone on a business or personal level. That's in my close inner circle. I ca- if you're in my close. Inner circle i consciously chose you and and i find. Usually those people consciously chose me as well but they have to be people who have a conscious vision of the world that are doing something that's powerful that are successful. They want and they wanna be more successful. That really uplift with and we believe that the world can be better off those kind of people i hang out with and somebody can be really interesting. But if that's not what they're doing it then i go. It doesn't further my purpose on this planet and therefore those are the people i need to hang out with so we can figure out together how to play bigger and make a bigger impact in this world. This is where choices come in we. All have choices are talked about that. And if there are people in your life. They're not in alignment with your mission statement. You have the choice to either limit the interaction with them or exclude them from your life together. I have to say that throughout my life there have been some people that i have to let go because they're toxic because filled with drama. They're negative and those are not the people that i want in my life so i made a conscious choice as difficult as was to let them go and i'm happier because guess what it's my life. I'm the ceo. And i can make the choices now. I make choices that don't harm other people because that's not me but i make choices that are good for me and many relationships what i also look for in addition to being like minded is reciprocity. You can't do all the giving but people like you. And i have to learn how to receive timely cycle right folks. We're going to be right back with more in this incredible conversation with cynthia ruez. We're going to have the twenty four hour. Challenge me to tell you about her master class. And they're going to have the conscious millionaire world expert questions. There's a lot ahead stay tuned. we'll be right back. Are you an entrepreneur coach. That's just tired of feeling stuck or looking at your bank account and it just looks way to empty not making enough money. While the truth is you were born to make billions and i wanna help you fill your bank account by gifting you my born to make millions empowerment audio people just like you all over. The world are listening to this audio daily ready to achieve lasting financial freedom. Right now i want you to imagine an endless supply of customers eager to buy from you. How would that change your life and business and because you're listening to the conscious millionaire show today. I'm giving you this audio as my gift. Get born to make millions audio right now. Go to conscious millionaire dot com forward slash make millions. That's conscious millionaire dot com forward slash. Make millions it's time for you to claim financial freedom for yourself go to conscious nowy unaired dot com ford slash make millions. Welcome back i'm gv kremlin third host of the conscious millionaire show. I'm here with a good friend. Incredible person on this planet. Cynthia ruez she is the author of cherokee wisdom. We're going to have that on the show notes at conscious millionaire. Show dot com. Now it's time for that twenty four hour challenge. I know that's a favourite part for a number of people who listen to the show. What's the twenty four hour challenge you for. Everyone listening today cynthia. Well when you look. We're talking about becoming the ceo of your life. The first thing you have to do is is define what success looks like right. So success is different for everybody and for me as a person as individuals. What does success look like most people gauge that my happiness so i have a little quiz. It's called the she test. It's not gender. Specific is stands for south happiness evaluation. And i want your listeners of challenging them to look at their life over the next twenty four hours and asked himself one simple question. What percentage of the time am i happy. And what percentage of the time am i not so evaluate your happiness and so it's like a happiness score exactly. I love that folks. I think we should all be happy. And and i'm actually bringing this in with my private clients at a deeper level of alignment that if you're doing something you're passionate about you feel like yes. This is a purpose that gives meaning to my life and to other people. And i'm happy doing it. I'm telling you when you align your business and your clients and your offers with that proposition. That if i'm not passionate if i don't feel like i'm really on purpose if i'm not happy doing this if you need permission from anybody i'm giving it to you right now. You don't ever have to do that again. And you might be going way chevy. I just kind of quickly thought through it. And i don't think i like any of my business great. Today's your day you get to ask yourself. How am i going to pivot. So that i bring my business and the people i wake up in the morning and work with in alignment with me being happy and passionate and purpose. Because that's going to shift you tremendously. Just think for a moment if you do that every day. How much more driven are you going to be to get more clients. You get to work with or to find more referral partners or get on more stages or being a guest on podcasts. Or having your own podcast. Whatever it is if you're happy and you're passionate and you're purposeful you know. I think that's the drive that will make us most successful as entrepreneurs. I wanna take a moment and tell you how happy i am that you join me and cynthia today that you showed for yourself to take another step forward so you can. Yes put more money in the bank by doing something that you're passionate about that feels meaningful to you and that makes you happy. You deserve to have it all. I believe that you can. That really is what conscious millionaire is about how you can have it. Aw by giving your all and making your difference in the world. And i want to give a special shout out to all of our friends and fans in denver colorado and sedona arizona and now it's time for the conscious millionaire world class expert questions. I want to start with mindset. What's the mindset. You've developed cynthia. That actually helps you discover the best business opportunities. It's the mindset of positivity when i stay positive and grateful. Things happened company. Come my way so positively in greg. Gratitude are the two most important folks. I love that were i right in my gratitude journal. you know when i had a very very good friend who was my spiritual mother. Carol passover i immediately that morning when out into nature by creek and i sat in my my white mole skin. That's my spiritual journal. And i wrote thank you thank you carol. Thank you carol. Thank you carol. And i just let it all out. And what happened is rather than feeling remorse. I felt celebration that carol had passed and it was her time to pass. And i didn't feel any loss at all by acknowledging how grateful i was that we got to take a journey together and really quickly j. b. let me tell you why mindset is so important because we know consciously that were all energy right and so energy happiness and gratitude compassion love. We are operating at a higher by 'rational level sadness and hate and bitterness. It's operating at a lower by vibration level so energy is so important that's why mindset is so important absolutely agree with you. I'm curious because there's the conscious part and there's the millionaire part they go together. What's a strategy that will empower entrepreneurs who are listening today to make more money. They key to making more. Money is the ability to pivot. If we've seen anything through this whole pandemic it's the businesses that are able to pivot that. Have been able to thrive if you stagnate then you get pulled down and unfortunately you don't thrive so you know be take a look at your business plan. Now is a good time to say okay. Is my business model working. If it's not working. How can i adjust adjusting and pivoting to me is the same thing so you always have to be able to with the times and go with the flow. Even though there is a plan you know you're not known each other a long time. This is a new question for the season. What is your purpose in life. Cynthia and how did that. Influence the direction you take your business and offering such things that i want to talk about next. Is your master class. So as i mentioned my mission statement which is my purpose is to be a beneficial presence on this planet. Now how did. I incorporate that into my business model while mine's a little bit unique. Because i as an executive coach what i do for five paid executive coaching clients. I do one pro bono and so the six with a six months free. But what i do is at. I am best in the youth. I usually take on executive coaching client. Free a some somebody. That jeon usually. It's a young woman of color. And i work with them and do give them the same service as i would do for my very expensive clients because it's about giving back. I was talking about how everything runs in cycles so it creates that now from a purely business point of view people might say. Well you're losing out on so much money. What you know what it makes me happy and i'm paying it forward part of my cherokee wisdom is looking to the future for future generations so i incorporated that philosophy into my business model. And the more. I do that guess. What more paid executive coaching clients. I get i. I love that you and i wanna take a moment to talk about the master you have and how people can learn more about that. Well during this pandemic i really said how can i use my skills. I've been teaching how people how to become a ceo. There live for several years but during this pandemic said how can i use my skills to help people. I don't really wanna go out there in public. Because of the risk. Bob so i taught a master class. I brought everything together. And i'm giving people the tools to become the ceo of your life. I'm teaching them how to develop the roadmap. I'm teaching him how to do the business model. And i'm teaching them to evaluate how they define success so for me. It's it's come full circle m so excited launched. It is done very well. People love it. People call it life changing inspirational so really. That's for me. It's really teach him giving people the skills. Because i honestly believe that everybody wants to be successful and the reality is most people. Just don't know how. So i give people. The skills have a menu. They can pick and choose what they need in their life and then they can implement that. Now it's up to them whether or not they they follow through but i feel passionate about giving people the skills to become the c o of their life and if somebody's interested in that how could they best contact you or go take a look at it absolutely. They can visit my website. My website is my name. Cynthia c. y. n. t. Hi a middle initial m. ruiz argue is e cynthia. Emmer we stop com. They can find out more about me on my website about my classes about everything i offer an addition to the cherokee wisdom. I've written several other books. So i am just very blessed and grateful to be able to share the knowledge that i have. I mean because you know. let's face it. The older you get the more knowledge wisdom you have. So i'm just less to be in a position to be able to share that with the world and we'll have that on the show notes at conscious millionaire show dot com. You know you've got your great book cherokee wisdom other books. What's a book that you would recommend for entrepreneurs so one book that i love that i read recently is called the forest sacred gifts by her anita sanchez. And i like it. Because of the simplicity of it she talks about forgiveness. She talks about unity because at the end of the day were all connected. She talks about healing and she talks about hope. You know we have to have hope if you don't have hope what are you have so again. It's the four sacred gifts and by dr anita sanchez. And i love it. And we'll have a link to that as well at the show notes on conscious millionaire show dot com to scroll down to today show tidal become the ceo of your life. Well i'm curious you're always expanding you're always making a bigger difference in the world. What's your next summit at this point in your life and what might be a challenge or you're going to have to overcome to get to yet another mountain top. Well i've said a goal for myself is i want to a been a nonprofits. Currently president of the city's pension board the knicks challenges. I want to obtain a corporate board seat on a paid board of directors. And i think that what's happening now. Is that people are realizing we need more diversity on the corporate boards so my goal within the next year and jv you can home into this within the next year. I want to be on. I want to get a paid corporate board seat at in a corporation and her so any type of corporation you'd most like to Have that seat on. So i'm open. I've already put the thing. i put in motion. Because you know obviously you have to take action right so i have already joined. organizations have taken workshops. I have a lot of experience. I took a leadership class at harvard. So in the reason. I want that is not necessarily for the money. Because you know. The money's good who doesn't like abundance but you'll why really want it because as women and women of color join these corporate boards when you're the first one in it comes with responsibility so i know once i get that c. because i will people are gonna look at me and say i've never seen a latina. I've never seen a native american. Maybe never had a woman on the board before. And i have a sense of responsibility that i need to show up and be the best director. So it's easier for us behind me. Well i love that so you. You wanna be a trailblazer and i love that. We're friends and that you're constantly trail-blazing final question is what's the legacy you wanna leave The legacy i want to leave is that cynthia did everything in her power to make this world a better place and bring in more love and compassion tolerance and diversity. I love that. I wanna thank you for showing up again. Not for tv. Not for cynthia. I believe you showed up for yourself. That today is another step forward for you in building that business becoming more financially successful and financially free by making your personal difference in the world. And that i know will bring you to greater happiness and fulfillment. I look forward to connecting with you on the next conscious millionaire and cynthia thank you so much for being are featured guest today the pleasures online. Jv thank you and keep shining your light and making the world a better place. Are you an entrepreneur coach. Who's tired of feeling stuck or looking at your bank account and you just looks way to empty. The truth is you were born to make millions. And i wanna help you fill your bank account by gifting you my born to make millions empowerment audio download the born to make millions audio right. Now go to conscious millionaire dot com forward slash make millions. That's right claim your financial freedom now by going to conscious millionaire dot com ford slash. Make millions next listener conscious. Billionaire media podcasts. Radio network host producer and owner of the show distributors and broadcast media make no claims that the charities and information discussing show in province may result in losses the opinions and advice from the host guest not necessarily represent those are the owner staff management or broadcasters of the show the legal counting or financial or health advice has made it the show. Your advice to seek counsel naturally to your business financial investments or other legal matters from licensed advisors always told your physician license visor prior to making chasing you diet exercise program and implementing any tragedies or information discussed on the shows now information provided baby suitable for your situation as always take full responsibility for decisions and actions you take including responses that they create in your health.
"We support from ops cards. You know that credit card debt. You're afraid to look at inside the balances if you've been avoiding your debt. It's time to confront it with upstart the fast and easy way to get a personal loan. Upstart find smarter rates with trusted partners because they assess more than just your credit score like your income employment. History find out. How upstart can lower your monthly payments. Today when you go to upstart dot com slash thanks. I'm nora mcnerney. And this is terrible. Thanks for asking when we've talked about autism on this show before we've talked to the parents of autistic children because parents are on just much easier to contact than children. With good reason. Also parents listen to our show. Not children with the exception of gus gus. You know who you are. It's philip fletcher son. Love that gus lessons. Hello gus we love your mom. But we've heard from a lot of you from a lot of our listeners Asking us to speak to autistic adults and let them tell their own story. What a great recommendations. So that's what we're doing today. Because yes artistic kids grow up to be autistic adults and all the stats in the world. Can't tell you about what that experience is like but cynthia. Ken and you're about to meet cynthia. Cynthia sister maggie is a terrible things asking. Listener and maggie. Send us a message after our come meet jordan episode which is such good episode. If you haven't heard it yet and the message basically said my sister is autistic. You should talk to her. And i thought sure yeah. Let's do it so we all got on internet call together and what you're going to hear is the lived experience of tina woman with autism. It's her experience alone which is just her experience. You may sometimes hear her. Sister maggie's voice but otherwise it's just the and a quick note to say that we make this show most often with just regular people recording in their homes which means the audio quality isn't always what we had when we were in studios and we know it and we're doing our best. Which i know you know but let's just say it out loud so here we go okay so cynthia tell me where did you grow up. Our grew up in garden grove california. What was the best thing about. Growing up there Same with my friends. All the friends that i had and on the pool. We'll just play all the time just playing playing playing all day every day. God i miss being child. Yeah the kids are now. We don't do that. We never like rauner phones or ipods. None of that. They play outside all the time. What what did what kind of games did you play outside. Jonesboro bean play tag mmc swimming pool. Break seen rod alive. Y'all scorers are hughley shoes. Remember those issues. Hey i got really. I wasn't allowed. My dad waters the humidity. We played dolls. do sleepovers. I mean kids nowadays is like wow this crazy. They're just like staring at rectangles in their hands. It just makes me wanna scream. Yes pretty sad. Like dang cynthia is the baby of the family. She grew up near her cousins and they were all really close. They played together. they had sleepovers. How did you feel about school when you were little like elementary school. It was fine. I mean it was like i was just the days. Were like our sold. It does. I don't like in elementary schools. Their own house. it was fine. I guess that's fine. Good while i'd always like i don't know like when i was little i was always like always in a good kid does like did you say kids. What do you mean. I was kind of a bully and the how lake which is always like always had friends and like. I don't know this weird puppies turned. She hit them. I wanted hate people out kids but like always like be friends with the people were the bullies. Like kind of. I guess like the kids you know. I think that's i. That's kind of a survival skill. In some ways. I think every kid goes into their a law school and junior high and high school so pretty much all through school growing up. What did you know about growing up. I really think i was too little to no but it was weird that everyone was kind of more not normal but lake was like though like was doing like the habits that i was doing so they all the kids weren't jumping up and down and doing their hands like to their to their chin or leg touching their face or rocking back and forth. So that's why. I thought it was a little different than other people other kids for example. She had this habit where she would Put her hands together. Squeeze them and then she would like put her hands together on a chin like pushing them towards her chin and we started noticing an actually interschool pictures that it started taking a toll We serve seeing her chin like couldn't get crooked because she was doing it. So much and like shoes would ask you know like yeah you know when my hands her my chin hurts and mike what am i supposed to just be like. Well just try to stop doing it. Ooh my mom round wave once they open the window and my girlfriend ran off and wasn't home so my mom's like oh my god like what am i going to do to have to call the cops. Because she can't be found so then. My mom was like crazy. Crazy looking through me dear number that that's the thing i don't things like that i don't remember but then my mom got me walking with an old woman. Right me yeah. She found walking back home with an old old woman in those woven was a. Hey this your daughter. Like she's been walking around the street and that's my mom's oh my god. We have to have some view like have home all the time. How old were you when you found out your artistic Also like twelve one nine found out told because they saw another kid doing the same habits but he was rocking back and forth and they asked. My mom solves like he awesome like. That's the same thing that i do. Sounds like oh. He has autism. He saw my mom like Told me that they had autism. Always about eleven or twelve hundred do really like knew that they had autism hundred. You feel when you heard that. What did what did it mean to you. Well i don't know. I just felt like oh autism oath amine. It's like any other is i realize like oh like that shocking. But i already knew that are kind of like was had something other than other people. Didn't vase crazy. Finding out today. Autism but i was like. Wow that's crazy like crazy. Shot also surprises just shocks. I shocked maggie. What did you think when you heard that i remember. We're at hometown. Buffet and time. I yeah so she did notice. Someone do the same like this. You know like slapping their hands and she noticed that and she brought it attention to me and my mom and i remember. I stopped eating. I didn't know what like i was in shock. Because she pretty much caught it on her own. You know like we didn't even have the tiller like she figure it out. And i just kind of made eye contact my mom and i was like it's time you gotta you gotta say something. And she told her. Yeah that's he does the same things as you. Yeah you know while you're special and she was just like y like she kept asking and we're like yeah you know you're just you're special but i was like in my mind i was like. Oh my god look. I feel like now that she knows i felt a little relief. Actually because i always had to tell like my friends like hey you know my sister. She's on the spectrum and just don't tell her she doesn't know my but now i i definitely had a sign of relief. Tell me about that relief. Like she knows. Like i kind of don't need to hide anything from her anymore. We'll be right back Ooh oh we get support from ritual. And i personally get support from ritual if you've followed me on instagram. You've seen that cute. Little bottle is just the world's cutest vitamins. That is in no way to the point that they want me to make. We deserve to know what we're putting in our bodies and why especially when it comes to a vitamin ritual. Does that okay. The multivitamins that we take should contain keanu transforms. Your body can actually use to help. Fill the gaps in your diet especially if you eat mainly cereal. Rituals delayed release. Capsule design delivers high-quality quality nutrients no shade to pure cereal with milk but including vitamin d. Three in just two daily pills and you always know what nutrients are taking you know where they came from because they have a supply chain visible right on their website. Get key neutrons without the s. rituals offering you ten percent off during your first three months. Visit ritual dot com slash. Thanks to start your ritual. Today that's ritual dot com slash. Thanks we get support from sun basket. This is how conversations in my house. Go what do you guys want for dinner. I don't know whether you want for dinner. I don't know what do you want for dinner. Do you understand how dinner is tearing this family fard. This is why sun basket is helpful because it gets dinner on the table quickly. Every son mesquite meal is filled with premium polity report including organic fresh produce antibiotic and hormone free meats and sustainably sourced seafood. Here's what i'm really into. I'm into the fresh and ready meals. Because they're eight ninety nine the freshly prepared they come ready to heat up in this little six minutes. also i can order things that just. I like creamy mushroom penny with baby spinach. That's what i'm eating for dinner right now. Some basket offering thirty five dollars off your order when you go to sun basket dot com slash. Thanks and promo code. Thanks at checkout that sun. Basket dot com slash. Thanks enter promo code. Thanks at checkout for thirty five bucks off your order. Sun basket dot com slash. Things promo code. Thanks we're back and we're talking with cynthia. Cynthia found out about her autism when she was twelve years old but she was diagnosed when she was a toddler. I am all my dad thought. Oh was death. Because i wouldn't socialize with anyone always by myself so my mom and my dad took me to a doctor named dr law and dollars when he diagnosed as autistic so signals at three years old so around that time and when my mom took me to the hispanic group i three years old. This group was a big part of scindia's life growing up. It was a support group for latino kids with autism and their parents and she loved it. She loved it even though she didn't even know she was autistic. She loved it so much. She even volunteers there now as an adult by the there when i was little salt lake. Your applied behavioral analysis. What does that mean. i think it means like to i. It's hard to explain. Because i had when i was little but china like the autism person the children or adults to be independent and try to lay know how to do things on their own and teach them like for example and also that all they taught me how to make the bed lake tawakoni numbers theories of language they feared to speech or Taught about the fifty states in the us by now builds. Like wow and so long ago. But they know how to tie my shoes or grooming or no. Yeah me that they tie pressure goals. were charter. Brush my teeth. Brush my hair. 'cause like my mom was like. Oh my god. How do i handle this. Junky hyper preussen. They told me like things that will help me like learn how to be independent like on. I think that's what they wanna have. Lake tantrums count trump's in general by they've tried to like calm you down like really have a trump. You're throwing things you're throwing yourself on the floor by the therapist will like go on. You'll news like beyond you until you can breathing and in calm down. And that's why they think it is so heading. That's what it is a note here that many people experience aba very differently than cynthia. Some people experience it as abusive or as a form of conversion therapy forcing the autistic person to comply with neuro typical behaviors. But cynthia had a good experience with it and she found it helpful cynthia. When did your parents get divorced. I remember the day very the divorce to Lake on the end of may. Those are really hard for night for me. Those hard tyler is saying like couple of stuff you remember from the. I remember everything from that night. Like everything everything. They separated because my dad cheated on my off. I don't know like was not a good husband. But he was always a good father like before when they were together he would always like to the house really Not really sober. Sorry us hard to talk so he wasn't sober no he was clearly not silver pick. The dow was just like seeing like out loud. Like oh my goddess. Like bunch lane arguing with my mom and then when mom was like arguing. Whitewash your back. I don't love her. But i know he was and maybe she was too. I just had enough of them. Arguing soul. I ran downstairs like went downstairs and like i saw my dad Drinking a gallon of milk and my mom was sitting there. Just crying and maggie was with her and my dallas apologizing to my mom like. I'm sorry like another chance. I'm so sorry. Mom said no like she like no way to know and then i was like why not mom give him one more chance and my mom's like no no no affecting me so much. I know i was mad at my mom really you my dr like oh my god have to change schools now. I can't wanted to go to school author on this one that i don't wanna go. I love the people are going to be mean to me and like thousand all these people like i don't know what to do. I don't wanna quarter of this foyer onto the school. I don't want to like i don't wanna move like i like where i live now and like. I don't want move away from here. San maggie found out that they have a little brother from their dad's other relationship. Cynthia went to stay with their aunt. Maggie and their mom moved into a new place. That sounds like a lot of changes. Yes those kind of scarily was going to happen now like what's going to happen. That's why i was always asking what's going to happen so that's my fit home and life at school which is middle school at this point is also really hard so is in class and we were all sitting down. The was lecturing was l. A pink shirt and this person told me out of bugging my shirt. So i was like. Oh crap really. She's like yard. Check your shirt checked my shirt and it had a bug in my shirt and i got up quickly and i was like. Oh my god. I can't be happening. So i'd like literally got up really fast. In round to the rush of air everybody was laughing hysterically at me and i went to the bathroom and i'll sold embarrassed. Yeah and then. I went back to the classroom Off sorry how to use the restroom and everything it's fine. You know like that sucks. What happened to you know i was like does. I don't know there's a lot of things like that. Were not happen to me so that that was embarrassing. I still remember that. And i'm i'm really like somehow book ended up in my shirt. I all my god. This is so embarrassing. It was like insane. Richard link side. It was like right here all like fire brought by my bravo inside my shirt. I don't know how it ended up there. I was like what the heck. Why did it end up in that place Yeah yeah. That's middle school. But cynthia eventually has to go to high school and she has really high expectations for herself. Being myself in promise like to be a nice student like to to the teachers and get in trouble like when they got into fifth grade all taught. High school was really bullied. And i was like always like loss. I knew that. If i may fraz with anyone and you have those friends the hang out with them all like. Why am i going to be friends with any of these people. What would people do or say t. Oh that was that that made you feel like you're being bullied. Well people were talk about my weight. Like hall is like a big person or there was big salt lake. They were sometimes. Like i dunno one person. Call me mike tyson in high school so it was like. Oh my gosh. I don't really like while. I felt afterwards. But you know just you know know like okay. He sat salt. You know what happened. He said at a one time in high school was my locker and like someone pulled. My brawley gained the almost like pulled it and like ran off and then the next day like one of the pupil like old trying to explain like why. Why are you that happened. And then i told him don't do that again. Because your get in trouble all you people in trouble or that person that mike bra. We'll get in trouble thou- so medals only god else furious after that and they told him don't do that again. We're going to take another quick break. We get support from bloom. Scape bloom scape is service that delivers healthy plants. Right to your door. Plus everything you need to know to actually keep them alive. You would think that ordering a plant would be. I mean how do you even ship it and wouldn't wouldn't it arrive all like dish. Shoveled dirt everywhere. Now interrupt healthy a wealthy and very interrupt thirty flirty and thriving. It arrived in perfect. How beloved loved loved the presentation of it. No access and that plant is looking good blooms. Gabe is now offering outdoor bloom kits so that you can also grow outdoor plants. Everything that you need to patio or your porch read ready. The balloon kits are completely customizable. 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The first trial of the former officers charged in the killing of george. Floyd is underway. Police officers are rarely prosecuted in such cases and the world will be watching the minnesota public radio newsroom which has followed this case in detail from the beginning will bring listeners updates on this monumental trial and the consequences it holds for the city and the country. Listen to in front of our eyes. Wherever you listen to podcasts own. We're back and cynthia has told us. What growing up with autism is like. But she's a grownup now. She lives with her mom with maggie and her dog and this is what her days are like. Now i walk my dog. I right and journal white. Try to write a lot Sometimes i when i get bored. Paint some things of. I cleaned my room. Sometimes i make my bed. I radiate change a sometimes. I clerked my food. Oh you workout. Yeah i work out. I sometimes when. I'm not tired of just like cow. Wanna walk like what at the gym when he can't but now virus i don't know haven't gone into the gyms. I usually just worn walks. What do you like to cook. I like to cook. Like i don't like sometimes kuku maggie cook healthy foods sometimes like one time to cook. Good her potatoes potatoes when i saw pepper for. You like waves. Today are like sometimes with Bacon or eggs with one where will control. He's not really or like contrary so some are different than they were for her growing up and some things. Just aren't cynthia. How do you think autism is affected you as an adult. Because when i go to the doctor like they're usually like all you're an adult now here parents can't be here with you like your dad and your mom because we ought to ask you really personal questions and now your dog knows you have to talk with the doctor with your mom or your dad and its by law so if you have a warrior you know who knows you know they can be with you or not. They say parents can't be you're on this. You have like a Are they gonna like something like to your parents to be around with a doctor or lake when fuller like all di while your parents to be here with you when we talk or not. They charted like confused their educational talks. So that new being all the parents. Here not That's what like. Since i was a minor thing would never asked me or do those things like cumin of all like. I don't even know who might physical doctors to beyond honest. I don't even know where she is or who he is because he keeps changing doctors. Is it easy to make friends ever since like. I've had like not good friends because they like sometimes how things to do like we're like oh i gotta go now. Whatever like i'll just like trusting people's really hard for me because like also in the past. I've date of the good france and it's just like i just like it's hard for me to trust people's as win the hard for me like to make ferns and socialize with people. What is a good friendship or good. Friendship is someone you can trust someone like that. Here's someone that doesn't do like shady beans just like tell you on. It's not true. Like design like always get you in trouble. They just cared about. You trust you trust that person and you you like when you talk to that person like that personal toll anything like on say anything unless it's like you know like feifer death like new water. True friend is for me. What do people do that makes you not trust them. Glenk wise gets me in trouble. Like always like saying something is not true. Like doesn't like talk to you. Answer your phone calls always ignores you like you don't exist. There are a few specific situations in her adulthood. That have made cynthia wary of people that have challenged or even destroyed her ability to trust in the living room. Or something downstairs and my computer starting making beeping noises just really. They'll beeping noise. So i went upstairs to my room was like oh my god what is going on so i checked on the computer and it was like beeping and couldn't stop so garlic. How do i stop the beeping from making so much voice. So i was like. Oh maybe there's number will help me stop the beeping right then. I called the number. And i was like. Oh my god like my computer is making beeping noises and then the people are answered. were old. well how can we help well. Kim stopped the beeping making noises. And then they're all like well. The only way we can stop me from doing that is if we can like picture computer. Fix everyone else's computer in our only your computer but the whole house and for costs they'll be worth so they said they would like how good. Why find this knowledge. Really good things on the computers and wifi in the house. Like i didn't ask how much it was. But they're like it's this launch. You know just this. And then we won't we won't bothering you. They have really good service. And so they're like oh What's the work. Did they ask for the log into my computer. Awesome talk to them. But it's just. They were pretty much trying to sell her like an antivirus survey trying to sell like really good. Like anti virus on the computer trying their best to like really sell that to meals and all abs like you know all interested like all like all they call my mom have really conservatives volvo so what ended up happening so what ended up happening was they ask from my credit card which was will so then all k- like i'm seeing my family for the white good why find stuff spike in the number of the credit card. They're like oh okay and then and then all okay. What will have the sign for you so like to sign in call came up on the computer so that they signed my name on it on the on the computer. And they're like. Oh thank you very much. And like powell just like seem weird so i told my mom mom like yours are and how we're gonna wind find everything. I hoped guys like dick. Ac stead like what did you do an initial as all heck no so she went to she called my dad and my dad like my dad had come over. The house is like. Oh what's the number. And i'm gonna call them right now to give back the money that that they stole from us. That these thule so my dad called the number and was like hey like why are you doing that. You know like after that happened. Like i literally like do the computer on the floor crying and i was like i'm never going to have a credit card ever again like i'm never going to do this again. Like i'm gonna go to the bank and get a credit card. That's how scared i was like. I'm still scared. Even have a credit card talks. Care down like thumbs. Like oh my gosh. Like this is not fair. Why were they like do this. You know those yeah. I mean i can understand why it would be hard for you to trust someone in because some like no one has to go through that school to write with the whales way when you're at school and then they're like save the whales or something like that that's all and like i was walking going home and some people were like all like. Can you help see the animals in the way save animals and they were trying so freaking hard so that i can like give money as they could save animals in lake all the plastic stuff animal in the animals right the and look. I caught it because obviously we had a joint account and i keep seeing a withdrawal like thirteen dollars. I'm like what is going on. Like you know. Sergeant colleen. And i found out what it was in cycle so people will just trust so hard to get money from you and like they like try to convince you to pay for their cause but all it is. Is there Your money we did. See some wales. It's okay era but still like people just a soul manipulative in like slow. There's people that are like really malicious people need just one like they just want it for the old might be their job to like get money and you know by the probably is are there. Were trying to convince you that it's not that they want to save their cause or something right. Yeah yeah. I can see why that would be. That would make me leave really really nervous. Cindy has autism. Looks different than it did when she was a little kid like. She doesn't do that thing where she puts her hands up against her chin and pushes and pushes intel her chin and her hands ache. But i have other. Bad habits is like hard still hard to not do. What are some of those habits. I think my one have. It is standing like when i listen to music. I just really excited. Or when i get excited about watching the show or anything. That looks like that's really emotional. I started jumping. Or i. I put my hands over my face. It really really like a plastered. All my face really hard or when i stand though i just you know rock back and forth. It's really bad. Why is it bad. Because i do a lot and it's hard to not do it to stop. Does it feel good to do it or bad to do it. If feels like really like oh my god like it feels nice if those good doing it like like. They did it afterwards. Yeah so why is it bad. It's bad because. I know that my parents are like oh. Don't do it anymore. like stop. that's why you're backwards and so your hands her because you always do that stopped doing it and can't do it anymore. You gotta stop home. Like oh my. I know but it's so hard to stop if you don't do it. What does your body feel like. If i don't do it like body feels like it. Has it had enough of of that get has it. it needs. It needs like for me to do that. Movement and music are a big part of cynthia's life rockies aic edm excite. It just makes me like pump up like when working out or it makes me wanna like workout now. Oh yeah it's i. I think that there's behind that to like you're supposed to listen to a certain speed of music and it makes you wanna work out. I don't listen to that kind of music. You listen to sad music. I listen to music to like. What's your favorite sad music music. That i listen to. Thanks really so. She does listen to a lot of sadness music. I think for this episode. We might need you to make us spotify playlist. Come on you serious. Did the some serious is. My music is not not really happy. That's good neither am i. That's okay that's all that's all. She listens to music. Okay what do you think that people don't understand about people with autism. They just don't get it. It's really hard to expand these like they don't like what do you wish. They deign understood. The other people were just understand. Those that are like more vulnerable and like are more shy and kennedy socialize instead of judging and like saying this person's to shar to quite like. Oh my god. It's like george after they don't really george but there's like all of this not like pre this pretend that she does not exist so i liked feel like people should understand more like how it feels to that those are are on the outside not judge to like really under- south lake. Why those that are can't socialize prone to sometimes feel like you're on the outside all all the time like when i'm like somewhere and i'm like oh my gosh. Like people were like more with their friends and stuff. And i'm just like well. You know. I just feel like it's i'm like the on the outside looking in. So that's how it feels all the time a This has been terrible things for asking. I'm nora mcnerney. Our production team is marcel. Malki blue phyllis fletcher hanami cowcross jordan. Turgeon and jacob maldonado medina our theme music by joffrey lamar wilson. We are production of american public media. And this was recorded in my closet. Which is where we record things. We were just little little closet dwellers recording a podcast american public media that p p p. What is the p. Stand for public seeds for public media. What does that mean. It means that we get support from. I mean god willing advertisers in also from the public from our listeners. And just you know. I've just been making some little little. Thank you for. People have supported our show in the past and here are the people we are thinking today. We are thinking and patterson who said that she donated because she loves the show. Thank you in short and sweet. We love it Byron keller big. Thanks because nor mcnerney is my favorite founding father and the greatest american hero of all time. I'm not gonna argue with that. Please earmarked by funds for the help nor discover words beginning with ap and research and development team buyer. And we are on it. And i got to say we're not coming up with much. We're not coming up with much. I really hope that you are not disappointed in where your donation went also big. Thanks to sara dang who said this. Podcast is so helpful to me personally and professionally. It's a part of my week. And i'm so grateful for all involved in the production. Sarah we're grateful for you so thank you. Thanks for thanking us for thanking you all those all the above okay. Big you just can't just a circle of thanks. Welcome to the thank you circle and guess who else is in. Thank you circle dina. Andre thank you so much really. It really means lot. She said she loves the honesty about the stories and people are speaks to because it feels like a real conversation. No filters are added shit's just make the story. Sound real. thank thank you thank you. We appreciate all of you so much whether or not you donate to the show. Honestly there's so many ways to support her show donating is one listening is one rating and reviewing it on. It's just like having a just like a constant form of like being being begging people like we back for your time we beg for your money And now i will. Just sit quietly my closet and hope that the children's still think recording because as long as they come out and yelich they're quiet and then they don't knock on the door and if this sounds depressing. It's because it is. Because i'm currently depressed but more we're going to be okay. We're going to be okay.
Friday 5/21/21 - Chicago 7 Year-Old Disappears From Bedroom
"Are may today's friday. It's may twenty first. Welcome to the dog walk prisoner. That barstool sports is true. Crime friday alleys here l. How are you this friday and doing good everything up run smooth on the suburban girl temporary suburbia Will good glad to have you back back in studio we talk. We didn't there last week because we prerecorded the other episode. Because i was in new york. Yeah yeah so it sounds like today we got a Kind of a whodunit. Type deal we deal similar to one. We've talked about before so be interesting. Yeah it'll be interesting so before we get into. Do i want to talk about Chevydriveschicago it's warm up at chicago long weekends at a town summer road trips around the corner. You need to make sure your car safe and running. How should i mean even just for people in the suburbs. Checking your car making sure it's good to go. And that's chevy land that's chevydriveschicago excuse me Chevydrivechicago dot com. You could type it in right there you could find all the local dealerships if you're in the market for a new car or if you just wanna get some routine maintenance and oil change new tires wherever you need. Your local chevy dealer will take care of you. There's a reason why chevy's number one bestselling brandon chicago land so head over to chevydriveschicago dot com to find your local chevy dealer for all your part service and new car needs today. Maybe it's ever do car. Like i said you could get that could get there as well. they'll hit you dialed in chevydriveschicago dot com. Is the site supposed trusted. Place people so go check it out. You won't be dealing with the place that You know doesn't adhere to maybe some certain standards and whatnot. Not saying anyone doesn't in particular but you know the chevy at least will be doing that sell go ahead go to chevydriveschicago dot com and make sure everything's taken care of. All right allie. What's going on okay. So today we have the story of dewa lobby and like i said this one is similar to one. We've talked about before But i know you haven't heard the story right nor have i also saw local which it is a local. So i'm not going to tell you which cases like we talked about before but i think you'll pick it up so tommy few rankin is okay. So this case takes place. September ninth nineteen eighty eight and which by all accounts was a normal day for the dwell bill de wallaby family. They lived in mid lowthian illinois. Which for those of you not familiar with illinois or the city of chicago. It's about forty five minutes outside of chicago. Give or take so. The dad. david completed his day's work. He returned home around five thirty. Pm and then he actually had kind of a quick turnaround left go bowling at six so he came in he came out and bowling was in blue island illinois which is not far. It's maybe like a ten minute drive from it. Both ian he finally then got home and settled in for the night around nine twenty nine thirty pm and when he got home his wife cynthia and his two kids jacqueline who was seven and davey who were four. Where they're waiting for him. They were hanging out and around ten thirty pm. Which gives me. That's very late for a seven year old and a four year old to stay up but sides point yes much besides the point jacqueline and david the dad both decided that they were going to head up to bed so they went to their bedrooms. Jacqueline was looking at you. Know some books or magazine for a little bit. They headed tibet. And cynthia the mom and davey who was the four year old stayed up and watched. Tv for about another hour until eleven thirty and then went to bed themselves so this was a friday night you know. Obviously they're staying up a little bit later before the kids go to bed and before you know. The house is tucked in for the night. Cynthia does the typical mom check. Which makes all the lights are turned off. All the doors are locked. She checks on the kids and when she checks on the kids she intentionally leaves their bedroom. Doors open kaycee needs something in the night right. They're seven and four years old so she goes then goes into her in david's bedroom and intentionally leaves her bedroom door open as well again in case the kids need something in the night she can hear them get up and if they need to come into the room their rooms. Are you know less than ten feet away from each other. So that next morning which is september tenth nineteen eighty-eight the doi- willoughby's alarm clock went off around seven. Thirty am cynthia that saturday. She turns the alarm off and goes back to sleep. David ends up doing the same even though he was supposed to play golf at eight that morning. So even the alarm clock going off at seven thirty. he's already you know pushing it for an eight. Am time he's going to go. They both turn over and go back to sleep. Davy the four year old. Got up around eight. Am spout maybe thirty minutes later and went to go watch tv in the living room however when he got to the living room thought at the front door was open and him being a four year old. Didn't really think much of it. He closes the door. He sits down he goes to watch. Tv nothing nothing alarming for him again. He's four so david cynthia then wake up around nine. Am so this is about an hour or so after davies. Been watching tv and chillan going. They were surprised to find that. Jacqueline was not yet awake. When cynthia went to wake her she was very surprised to find out. The jecklin was not in her bed so initially they just started kind of looking around the house. Okay davies up. Maybe jacqueline's up doing her own thing somewhere in the house couldn't find her in the house so they okay maybe she went to play outside though they start looking around outside. They can't find her. This is a little more concerning to them so they began to think if she had gone to play outside maybe she wandered off so they get in their truck and they start basically canvassing the neighborhood driving around to see if they can find her and david had actually gone to neighbor's house and asked like hey is jacqueline here. Which i thought was weird because it was actually always davey. Who was running off and jacqueline was always coming to hayes. Davey here we got him home. Whatever so the neighbor was like like roles reversed. This is odd so again realizing they return home from searching and canvassing the neighborhood they are looking around the house and david realizes that the window a window in the basement is broken. And that's when they call the police so they had actually made a couple of calls before this and to Like family apprentice steph. I'm didn't say for what like when you look in. I actually found the court documents of this case. You look in it. It says who they called. It doesn't say how they're related Assuming it's family and friends. Hey jacqueline is she with you know okay. So they call the police and this was at ten thirty. Am so they realized she was missing. It nine looked for her for an hour and a half or so and they call the police when they realize the window in the basement is broken. Police go out there and david shows them the window. So the screen on the outside. The screen of the window has been Like bent back. It looks like someone tried to pull it out but it was still attached. it was just bent. Which if someone's going to sneak in the window you'd think the whole screen would come off. Screen is not hard to rip off and there was also glass laying outside the window on the ground. So okay if you break a window from the outside not to say that glasses and going to be on the outside also on the outside of the window but most of it's gonna be on the inside that most of the time you'd have a pretty good indication which we're broke right so okay. There was glass outside on the ground and the police. Then go to search the house. And they find jacqueline's room was kind of just like oddly in shambles like there was a first of all the closet. Light was on in the bedroom. Blinds were closed. There was like clothes everywhere. Drawers were pulled out. Jacqueline's bed was pulled away from the wall. There were no sheets on the bed. Like it was odd. There was a suitcase that was like partially filled with close cynthia. David kind of explained away is oh. This is from like looking for her that her room is just like in disarray and she was like playing with the suitcase the day before which possible but could also be odd so david also then tells the police that when he got up around eight. Am he found that the front door was open. This very much does not line up with first of all he got up at nine. Second of all davey was the one close. The door found the door open and close the door. So why are we telling police different story. He also told police that he was absolutely positive that he closed and locked the door when he went to bed. But if you remember. He went to bed before cynthia. Cynthia was one who is up last locked up. The house turned off the lights. Yada yada yada. So we've got some inconsistencies right off the back with the police don't know because they you know they don't know the full story yet. They just are taking the count from the dad. Because that's naturally what you do and the mother. You're not going to go to the four year old. I right and they don't have any reason not to believe them at this point. They're just trying to gather information. So the police take another look at the window and they find that on the inside of the house below the window. Was this like medal. Basically like a clothes rack and it had a hamper on it. And then two boxes underneath there was also this undisturbed layer of dust on the inside of the window ledge undisturbed keyword and if someone's going to climb in that window i mean there's like a bunch of stuff on a metal clothes rack which you think one would make noise in to like get moved somehow so this again. The police are starting to look and say okay. This is not. This is odd that somebody broke in came in this window. The screen is still partially attached. There's class outside the window and others undisturbed player and there was actually so it was kind of unfortunate about the layer of dust because there was an investigator an era detective and a crime scene tech. Both which would later testified that there wasn't undisturbed layer of dust on the inside of the window and the crime scene. Tech actually also testified that there was two cobwebs in the corners of the window as well undisturbed again however. The detective did not initially put in the initial report that day that there was an undisturbed player of dust. It was not until over two weeks. Later that i was in a supplemental report so this can get where you get into the semantics of it in a trial where wasn't in that initial report that day. The crime scene tech was photographing the window but did not photograph specifically the layer of dust or the cobwebs so in the crime scene photos. You can't see that which again even though both people are testifying to this. That's great but do it. Doesn't it kind of hurts. That piece of evidence that it wasn't really documented. Well so can. I guess which one i already think this. Yes that sounds like jon. Benet ramsey yes. Yes i knew as soon as i said window in the then. You're going to know what it was so on the door to jacqueline's bedroom in front door there were remnants of fingerprints however they were smeared so they couldn't be left there was no point in lifting because they couldn't test them at all go. There was also no other attempts to locate fingerprints in the home. Her no other documented attempts at least two which is like you would think they would do the window. Her bedroom her bed stuff like that. A little more due diligence right and right off the bat right off. The bat david and cynthia were pretty cooperative with police. They gave blood and urine sample as gave permission to search medical records and they were really working with them. They were giving him testimony stuff like that. In the search ensued for about four or five days they had you know just continuing to search area. The homes trying to gather information however on september fourteenth. Which about four or five days later. Jacqueline's decomposed body was found in some brush in blue island illinois about three miles from the family's home so jacqueline was found by a man named michael chapman who was living in nearby apartments to where her body was found he had came home that day around five forty five and immediately of his car he was hit by this just foul odor of decay. And he's enough for him to be like. I need to look around to figure out where the smell's coming from. So he started looking around and he saw something that was about two feet from the parking lot. And there was this Patch of like heavy overgrown brush thickets. And he start. He kind of peeked in and he saw that there was something like wrapped up in some sort of covering. He tried to pull back the brush and take a closer look. And that's when he saw what appeared to be a small body which was laying face with a sheet covering the body from about mid torso down so her her arm and like mid torso up was exposed to the elements which jacqueline which ended up being the body of jacqueline. So jacqueline was wrapped. In this like multi-color quilts. And like i said being from mid torso up was exposed to the elements. She had been there for about five days now so she was decomposing quickly. There was also parts of her since she was exposed. She was her body was also now infested with maggots which does not help evidence. Wise september september mid september so. It's still so probably a little warm has so armee go. Yeah yeah and in the way that she was found like i said she was found face up she was also found with a rope looped twice around her neck and it was so lucht twice around her neck and then it was laid down across her body and then just kind of like hanging in between her legs which i don't know so the rope specifically said the rope was not tied and it was not in like a noose. It was just wrapped really tightly around her neck. Which again is kind of odd like well. If there's someone that seemingly didn't know how to make new sir strangulation thing. I could i. Could i could see that. Just rapid it in and go and there was also a pair of underwear. That was found about a foot from jacqueline's feet. This pair of underwear was very random because there was no like dna no blood no semen no nothing found on them. They were clean. They were It says specifically there were not. Inside out and jacqueline's body was also found to have no signs whatsoever of sexual assault. How ever in underwear there was one. Pubic hair found and it was that it was not from jacqueline. 'cause she was seven years old and there's also said foreign fibers found them so whether that's skin cell or clothing fibers. Or what have you. Which again is weird that it to me. It almost makes it feel like they're staged because there's no signs of sexual assaults. They're also weird that it's a foot away to me. They wouldn't be still like with the body of maybe under the blanket or whatever rain especially if she's wrapped up you know. It almost feels like an intentional red herring to kind of throw investigators off knowing that they would look at something like this so police when Michael had found jacqueline's body. Police were already at the home and so they they called them told them and the police then notified cynthia and david cynthia and burst into tears and collapsed and david also sat down and cried and so they were media right off the bat like showing emotion whether they were going through it or not. That's always a really hard kind of points. You criticize once. Always say you don't know how people are gonna react and too because you could criticize him either way either. They don't react enough or they're reacting too much so to me that's not a it's not really a point to focus on what is point. Focus on is the evidence that was taken from under docklands fingernails. Stare was type. O blood found under her fingernails which is significant. Because obviously typo. Is you know common type. O blood when they tested the family. Davey cynthia and jacklin. Were all typo david. The father was type a so. Potentially it was either one of the two kids or the moms blood or someone completely random but we know for a fact. It was not david's blood. Very interesting out of the gate So there were also three hairs. That were found on the rope around. Jacqueline's neck two of which were consistent acklins hair and one that did not match any of the family members which you can take that and you can say. Oh who's hair was blah blah blah. However i will always be an advocate for the fact. That hair is the most unreliable. Dna that you can find because especially back in the eighties. Essentially what they did was they take one of my hairs. They were taking a year has like these. Don't look the same that's it. That's all they can do with it so to to. Yeah there was not i mean. Still to this day like harrah's you can't do a ton with hair and just big okay. It's the same color if they're going off of like one hair the kadian really say it's the same texture like textures hose in the impression. Could i got look into that more. You can now more. So i mean still not as much as you could deal with like other. Dna especially back in the eighties. Not reliable. I mean if you had maybe like someone had like a chunk of hair in their hand or something. That's a different story but when you're dealing with literally one hair that did not match. I mean you could go down a rabbit hole of that. And so the autopsy on jacqueline's bodies showed that she had been dead for about five and a half days before she was found but it could not be determined if she had been in that same place for the entire five and a half days due to the mega infestation. And the dekom for body. It was likely that she had been exposed to the elements for a while or most of that time but again they couldn't tell for sure because of all those things that had you know kind of tampered with the evidence jacqueline's cause of death was found to be ligature strangulation which is not really a surprise. Considering she was found with a rope around her neck A neighbor later testified so there was a lot of a witness testimony in this case. People testified to the fact that you know this neighbor got up around to ten in the morning to go to the bathroom. Get drink water. And she noticed that three of the four family cars for the at their house at the family home oregon zoo to in the morning and the one car that was left. Which was jacqueline's car was parked like hanging over the driveway. About a foot damn driver which was odd because one. It was never left like this and to wind up. Pull it all the way into the driveway so a neighbor accounted this. Another neighbor also accounted the same thing. Seen the car like that in the morning around eight. Am so it had been like that all night or most most of the night. Or i mean it's possible. They left and came back and parked at like that again but more likely than not it was left there. Other neighbors testified to the fact that they had seen davey in days weeks prior playing with a rope out in the backyard as like kind of like a jump rope But they said they saw him playing with this rope like playing with as a toy but didn't look like it looked like it was like a closed throw line rope that he was just playing with And they said you know after jacqueline found. They didn't see him playing with it again. It was figured out that the rope around jacqueline's neck was from the family's garage again. You know you can kind of go back and forth with that to be like. Oh the family knew the ropes got it or it was just an opportunity weapon. So we've done so many of these now that that's what happens a lot right. Once jacqueline's body was found. Cynthia and david stopped cooperating with police immediately. And so this. I mean strange because you wanna know who did this to your kid right so but on the other hand maybe they knew that the parents of the first people that are maybe looked at so to stop. Cooperating to stop. Cooperating is a little fishy rather than like to say. They stopped cooperating versus like they lawyered up. Yeah know so. I think that ended up itself because lawyer up. Yeah you probably should layer up because you're going to be the first people that are looked at to just stop. Cooperating is a little different so again the initial actually what was figured out as well in the case is david is not jacqueline's biological father a man named jimmy guests was her actual father and so off the bat. Suspicion immediately fell on him to pick okay. Jacqueline's biological father came took her in the night. And that's you know. He must have her arab quickly ruled out though because he was actually one in florida and two in prison at the time so as quickly as that suspicion fell it also was taken out. David and jacqueline were then kind of the next people who were looked into. And just some you know. Police are looking at them looking at kind of the odd window. The bedroom on the fact that there was apparently undisturbed dust. And here's the thing. If you remember me saying when cynthia put everybody to bed she left both bedroom doors open. Both kid's bedrooms doors open and their bedroom door open as well so for someone to rip the screen break the window which was unlocked by the way and all the other doors in the basement were also unlocked. Why is the window broken. And then to then go upstairs get jacqueline without making any noise without waking the four year old which kids are very light sleepers and again take jacqueline go past cynthia in david's room. Unlock the front door and leave with her without jacqueline making you sound without waking up davey who's four years old and without either of parents hearing anything when both bedroom doors are open and you have to go past the parents bedroom to get to the front door. It does not add up to me. It's hard to believe it's very hard to believe and it just again with the weird statements of like david saying the door was opened when he got up and you know saying that he was the one who locked up the house at night time edge. What why lie about these things. If they're insignificant. Why does it matter right. So miss remembering maybe though i sometimes you know like shutting the doors. No i swear locked this well actually didn't yeah. You could mr member. I feel like waking up in the morning and seeing if the front door was open and not like if the front door was wide open. Like that's something you would notice because it's out of out of the ordinary versus like if you just got up in the morning in house was still locked up like it wasn't nighttime. Now david and jacqueline were eventually again. Became the main suspects and they were arrested for jacqueline's murder and they decided that instead of talking to investigators like i said they stopped cooperating that they were going to plead the fifth. That can be really tricky thing to do as far as Not legally mean plead the fifty plead the fifth your constitutional right but as far as like we're guilt falls with that because you know it's that common thing of why would someone plead the fifth if they're not guilty you know so. I don't know about that. But they were held in custody. Guinness was like mid to end of december. They were held in custody until mid december and they were then released. Not because charge dropped but they were just released on bond before their trial two months later around february ish cynthia and david were both charged with with murder and it was decided that they were actually going to be tried together Which in this case that makes sense to do because one of them is not more heavily implicated than the other one. The jury was actually when it came time to actually do the trial. The jury was actually taken to the crime scene. Which i feel like is more likely than not pretty unheard of to to actually take the jury like directly to the crime scene. So i i have not heard of that in a lot of other cases. Usually it's like you yo you show them pictures. Maybe video however prosecution had a hard time with yes. There's fact that evidence does not match up. However the the hard thing was prosecution could not come up with a motive. The motive that they came up with which is very weak. Motive was the fact that due to the evidence and the condition at the house was left in when everyone went to bed. Cynthia and david were the only two individuals who had the opportunity to commit this crime which yeah okay but that's not. That's not a motive right. That's not a that's not a. Why did they do this. That's just that they had the opportunity so that was pretty weak right off the bat and a very much circumstance and then you know before. The jury could even golfer deliberation or get further into the trial. The case was dismissed due to insufficient evidence. And since he was then acquitted. David however was actually we'd actually followed through for him to be convicted of first degree murder and concealment of homicide. However the he was also then acquitted a few years later due to insufficient evidences. Well now other than jackson's parents and jacqueline's biological father they didn't really dive into a whole lot of other leads. There was a couple of things here on the sad. Like oh david had A mentally ill brother or there was like another Individual that they were tied to that was a known child sex offender which louis leads again generally have any reason no motive no evidence against those people. Now this is unfortunately where the case still stands. It is still unsolved to this day. Which the middle of the police actually keep this case open. They haven't touched in years and people don't know why they won't re-open at a reexamine it other than the fact that police always always always no more than they let on. So maybe there's a reason that they're not reopening air examining it. My guess would be if you kind of look at this case as a whole the police and or authority in general really dove into the case. Almost unprepared right. Prosecution had basically no motive there was insufficient evidence. They didn't pursue all of their leads. Fully before taking cynthia and david as it and unfortunately like even if cynthia and david if it came out and it was all put together that they did do it and we had enough to go to trial and we had enough to actually victim now. We can't because double double penalty. You can't try him again for the same crime so essentially even if they did do it. They're off the hook so this case stays unsolved and a lot of people think it's because the middle of the police don't want to go back use their resources to solve the case and then have to admit that they jumped into the trial without being prepared for it and have to kind of take the heat for that this many years later. I don't obviously who who knows the real truth about that. Yeah that's just what people say right. And i mean other than what's in court documentation and what is actual evidence in a like. We say all of all of these information is alleged and we'll continue to be alleged until maybe one day if it's ever solved you would actually. I mean you would think there was. Dna collected in this case. I don't know if they have tried if they will try to go back. And use dna technology today to try and get through it but again more likely than not if cynthia if it were sent the david there's nothing we can do about it now unless they were somehow able to like dig up another crime that could go hand in hand with it is. This is plausible. Someone broke in and that she came down to see. She's the only one that heard it. She came down to see what was up. The person who ever broke in went downstairs. Tried to make a getaway out of that window but then turn around and salt was girl took her the understood her and went out the front door possible. It could have possibly been. There was nothing stolen from the house but then the the rope done is still an x factor because that guy took her to stop in the garage and the garage of consumers. He knows he needs to get rid of the witness. So yeah potentially. I don't know that was one of the first things i thought of it. It absolutely could be. There's it's interesting because like in the jonbenet case. They looked into so many other leads like that. Like a break in like people who had been in the house before whereas in this case there's like you read articles on it and like everybody immediately jumps to david and cynthia may be because there's not like an jon benet case. There was a lot of people that came and worked on the house. There was like you know weird creepy neighborhood. Santa whatever in there was maybe not as many of those factors in this case but it very well could have been like a random breaking. It's odd a nobody heard the window break like in the middle of the night if your door your bedroom doors open. I mean granted. It was in the basement. But it's still a sound that you would think somewhat here but you don't know how position i don't know how far the houses were lowthian you. There's a lot of factors here that we don't really know. Yeah it's it's very interesting in that like random pair of underwear doesn't really fit in to this at all so it'd be interesting to hear. I mean since as local. I wonder if anyone listening have more. But and i mean you could go like when i was researching this case. Obviously it's local so You know this this stuff is this. These court proceeds in these trials are public knowledge. And i was able to find the court documents on this which was very interesting because the wording that was used in a court. Documents is so much More narrative then. Like if you look at court diagnosis. There's a lot of like big wording in. It doesn't really make any sense unless you're in the legal profession whereas like this was literally like you're literally reading a story and it was much easier to follow and it also does not look like anything like court ideal with court documents a lot in like my day to day job and i was like me and we should really go back to these old times because the jargon the yeah they did a great job of putting on of detail into it and you know you can go down a rabbit hole. In this case as far as evidence goes like this checked cars for fibers in south. They didn't find any look. Out of place fibers. They checked fibers from the quilt. She was found into the trunks of the cars. Didn't find anything there so it really. They really did. A you know as much as police may have dropped the ball as far as like jumping into charges and a trial and whatnot. they they did do a pretty minus the undisturbed layer of dust. A pretty good job of looking into dna in this case in evidence. Wise in this case which. I and again for that reason like it's so hard to say a lot of this points towards cynthia and david but a lot of it also doesn't so i don't know it's it's tough to say i would be very interested to see if they weren't going to go back one day in Re-test some of the evidence just because they have so much of it. But until that time it has you know it's gonna remain unresolved all right then Alley thank you know like you said i mean this local on said here what people say at the socks i mean. I'm sure the the little brothers like in his mid thirties. Now so I don't know if he's still local or not but that's tough obviously But thank you That's ever to everybody that's over this week. we'll see on monday.