4 Episode results for "Crown Office"
The different fates of Christchurch's Catholic and Anglican cathedrals
"Yeah this is. A tale of two cathedrals it's a story the of two bishops a tragedy and even a prince this more than one battle in this long saga and only one of the Cathedral's has a happy ending. You've got the two main cathedrals Anglican and Catholic. Dr Anna Crichton his historic places out. Your we meeting. Outside Christ's stooge Anglican Cathedral in Cathedral Square on the day Prince Charles visits and becomes a patron of the rebuild like mini. Ns fought hard for for the spiltting and eventually they won. It'll be restored at a cost of one hundred four million dollars just a few blocks away as the Catholic cathedral of the blessed sacrament. Its future looked safe until a few months ago it will now be deconstructed and a new one built so it's a story. Three of two cathedrals and that's the story of two bishops and it's a story off the aftermath of the largest natural disaster to new Sheila. Jeanne both was severely damaged by the earthquakes and the aftershocks the fates were in the hands of the bishops will visit. Is it the classical Catholic cathedral shortly. But it's the Gothic Anglican one that has been debated delayed and deeply divisive the cathedral asset desolate since the two thousand living quake in the Anglican church in the heritage groups of white water over. Its future ever since the crumbling building fenced off and propped up by metal. It'll starts right in the middle of the city. Now there are three options on the table restore the old building demolish and build something new or gift the building to the see what happened with the Christ Church Cathedral while state took us even. Es of fighting to get to the stage where it was great to be restored in a nice even years. We hit a recalcitrant bishop who was really really came and for it to be demolished. Bishop Victoria Matthews has always said the building has no significant heritage and cities people are more important gene thousand earthquakes. Quake have shaken us and what we thought we were about the greatest energy seven to eight years on is invested in an attempt. I'm to restore business as usual politicians for more interested in getting elected and keeping up on the Poles. Then actually actually assisting people on the east side of town so the outcry from the public was because Christ Church Cathedral troll is not only the scene to pace of Cathedral Square and ask such a better icon definitely not a new on the traditional in the history of these cathedrals angels you know you need to restore them for sure. And I'm almost in tears because it's just so sad youth smoothing offender it missing it history said is it. Leave it as it is and it's just the reason why the Anglican community was built so for seven years. He is the cross stitch. Public have been fighting against the misinformation that it was beyond repair that it was dangerous. They can't afford to repair it. It's an exciting opportunity to build a new cathedral and it would take too long to restore anyway and the other argument was that the case look cathedral as far more spectacular building so gone restore that one I mean huge amounts as is being printed and resonant talked to pat either this even years. Lisa's to the eight atop priciest rallies. Different groups fighting for it. You know it really was a very long story. The Great Cross Stitch Buildings Trust with the ones that hate the most path because they hid Germain Inform Impedes Jim Anderson in follow up version fighting for the restriction of this cathedral through the government the crown nor office. And everybody else so I want it was setting. The oldest fighting was going on a major offer was made from the community to pay for and with a proof Casado of the cathedral that's open. That's the western facade are open to the All the way this huge gape there and into the offer nor charge nor cost to the church or the community would rise the funds fishy five thousand. Hasn't done for an engineer to cover the gap to stop the millions of pigeons. That have been in the IVA waters now nine years. This offer was tuned down by the Bishop. Also we hit an offer from the worship phone company of glaziers and painters of glass in London. It's one of really really old guilds and England say seen seen somebody out here and I offered to restore all the stained glass windows in the Cathedral that was also tuned down but it wasn't until two thousand seventeen that on after consultation with the Senate the Anglicans Senate in knife I should site to site yes to restore. There was money granted from the crush city council ten million dollars and matched by the government. Sorry sorry they call it over the line to say you can't sign now. It's going to cost too much. Repeat so what was the insurance money and these krantz the restriction was short today. Really is a Diab- celebration for Christ's ditch at it. The way where we can move on and reinstate voting that really does mean so much to not any questions but the people these days and now it's going hit but cassim between teammates. We nearly two years later and nothing's changed well. It doesn't look as though it's changed range but it's being cleaned out nicest. Pigeons are still sitting out there having a great fury of HR right truce going to be visiting today and Typing working on plans in engineering feasability studies over it. Sort of thing costings. They actually have to sit down there. Once they climb once the Ikea to proceed came in two thousand seventeen by hit to see Trafficing inquiry fundraising Construction old is sorts of things to be able to tune round in cyb right. We stores clean adamant all the way through that. This must happen. Absolute could you know. Could you see the viewpoint all could just say argument. Now I couldn't for the simple reason they insurance money was forty million dollars and they the bishop from my understanding understanding and teen to build a new cathedral for forty million dollars you not cathedral that would be something to be proud. Add of for forty million dollars. The seem to point of cross-stitch so now living room here I think that people outside of Christ church maybe find that difficult coke to understand particularly those who think that's not very attractive building. Well it's not a very attractive. Now Ah let's actually very beautiful few a few look at the detailing in just not look at it as a building and actually studied the detaining. It's very it's exquisite it it's really exquisite externally and generally there is a document proceeded by the Great Cross Stitch Buildings Trust in two thousand and fifteen to the government with an objective of C Smith for the recovery of the Cross Stitch Cathedral and as they rightly pointed into that it's a symbol of strength for the people of the city so this document was for the consideration of the Crown Office and government. It starts off with the important seasons that the Cross Stitch Cathedral spiritual cultural and civic class of the city and AH it's a wise being there and provided inspiration for the city and its people it is a community civic cathedral as well as being a hi Anglicans and because we're not as crush city councillor. I was a naked fedral when the Dalai Lama was speaking and was quite wonderful in these different people from all over the world would come in speak an angel so it was a really a really inspirational community cathedral for everybody Mesa. What religion you where there's pain also? It's the paper joining in to get it restored and put back the way it was It's symbolic of a whole range of things which are cultural which have spiritual significance sandwich method to people surveys of the hot. We're doing this Recovery of Cathedral as part of the overall recovery of the city from the trauma of quakes. Fedral wasn't recovered covered. You could argue that. The city of Christchurch would never recovered memory site interesting story one of the things that the people across looking to and and starting to save Bill. They'll be generation of children who will grow up watching a cathedral being built in the square and that will be quite something special for them so when it looked like that you know the Cathedral was going to be pulled down. What was the point where it looked things? Look most hopeless for the cathedral throw. It looks nice to hype. Plus we at was was put members of the Senate of the Anglican Church and they were following following the bishops wish an away and the appreciate to be portal on the Bishop to restore this cathedral because they saw previously said she wanted a new one in of course the true and faithful. We're being loyal to push up so in the early days it was a real struggle to get to get the message across but finally finally and two two thousand fifteen the government appointed I may dia Ta and a working great now. Strew that mediation it started getting lakes getting traction. And when it was put to the final Senate for the answer thy seat will for striking feel ecstatic. Yeah so witness. That witness work done to begin on that. Well as far as to why we're has begun because I've started clearing chance and I've started cleaning it up. I hate to think how much coach you know it'll be it'll be Mesa's date and Leah. But they can be removed and be restored quite easily decide. What have we got a date for when it's going to be about eighteen years? So we're Jason you'll pay at the center of the special or there are a number of people. It can't possibly be one champion for such a big exercise. Many many people have been involved Kamini people at all levels. That's been huge. Bishop Victoria Matthews resigned in two thousand eighteen some months after the Senate overall all to plans to demolish the cathedral in regrets. I think early on. I probably should have gone to the people who are screaming the loudest and saying we can't do this way. Let's let's talk. We kept saying we were going to do that. And then there'd be another lawsuit and never happened. I wish I'd gotten in before one of those lawsuits who those people you're talking about. I'M NOT GONNA name names teams of groups at all heritage people who cared about the reinstatement for the Cathedral. But I'm not getting into names. His heart is not personal. Well the Basal over Christ Church Cathedral Rage. The fate of the other cathedral seemed safe Okay what have we got here. And we've got the Cathedral of sacrament and Barbados Straight assist. This I pay P. E. T. R. A. architecturally designed voting known by historic architects is one of the most beautiful cokie drills in the Southern Hemisphere. What's leafed sits in ruins only eastern outskirts of the city? It's out by Roman pillows with two concrete angels. He was perched up high and the mosaic face of Jesus on the window of the entrance door is obviously a category one here which New Zealand and catergory everyone cross city council district plane badly damaged in the earthquake but not so much as to for the need for it to be demolished to the point that the bishop time but Barry joins decided that it would be restored. What what he could do and the engineers great he could restore the knife in mothball? The wrist to be restored as funds allowed the cost of restoring. It was estimated at one hundred. Fifty million dollars was all cleared the rubble Stein's were all earmarked case is logged in life would push on pellets. And an offside for storage ready to bake and so the restriction. The dime was left it off because the white of was pushing the wolves out and they saw and tate in can be put back. Sorry everything was fine up until two thousand and sixteen and in two thousand sixteen Bush airy joins dodd. Sorry this is we. The Knicks special comes in because the Catholic Church does not have a Senate. The bishop pays the final say so the new Bishop Paul Masson he comes on we are not going to restore it. We're going to build a new cathedral facial and we're trying to build at here. We're going to build it in the city. This is a significant in sad moment. Francis Catholic people in firm Kamini paper on Christ itch for homeless really beautiful building and I want to acknowledge that. And and say Yeah my hyper said if we go we build we. We build something that is beautiful in in in speaks of golden the things that we want to achieve in the Cathedral this fun under the section enthusiast. Emergency Pass hit authority for it. To be demolished not demolished deconstructed the differences in state of putting a bowl on smashing then casting rabble that they take it down. Steinbi- Stein one diaper when Dr and and keep parts of full the new cathedral so we as for cuts for heritage. You're on the back foot we've allowed into this fo seats of security that it was going to be saved and then rush at the last minute. That's not sorry so at such a challenge that I'm afraid despite my be stiff. It's in the group that time convenient for we just can't I can't see airway clear to be able to save it. How does it make you feel it makes me feel thoroughly thoroughly disillusioned like you said you were blindsided estate? Why hasn't been such a big deal as well? Who Do you go? She is only one person his the final signed China and Russia looks so ugly now with size shipping containers. Yeah stuck out the side and you know. The God and I've Agron so what what is going to happen now. deconstructed you Anglican but does the case let cathedral measure to you as much as the Anglican while it's it's not about religion it's about here to an SOBAT ACA teacher in. It's about the beauty of our teacher. That's the detail today. I'm Sharon Break Kelly. The data is brought to you by newsroom. Dot Coaching seed made possible by the Irene seed inside on on and ovation fund hit this. Subscribe Button to stay across the detail every day. And if you're on April please leave a rating as it helps other listeners. Find US this episode beside was engineered by Jeremy Veal and produced by Alexia Russell. Thanks to Dr Anna Crichton and this is the Christ Church Cathedral choir singing and live on. RNC's Nunes Program
Disrupting forensic science and playing with fire
"This is an ABC podcast e could give my guests and conversations today the following job. Description blows things up sets Fata things works with drugs. Professor nieve. Nick date is a forensic chemist specializing in investigation of fires explosions and clandestine drug chemistry. She's director of the Levy Hume research center for forensic science at the university of Dundee in Scotland need scientific expertise takes her into crime scenes as an investigator and into courtrooms as an expert witness. And this is included the inquiry into the Grenfell tower fire for which Neave was a fire investigation expert witness. It's not surprising, then that she's mates with crime writers. In fact, the great vowel McDermott has even muddled character on nave, a professor of far investigations known as sunny O'Brien, high nave. Or should I say Sonny don't say sunny. Thank you. I love you. So you live in Scotland now, but we're about did you grow up? Yes, I live in Dundee. Now. In fact, I was born in Dundee back in the nineteen sixties because my father had moved there to take up an academic position. We moved back to Ireland when I was about six months old because my dad cop TV. I grew up in in Ireland mainly in Dublin. And that's where I went to school. Went to university. And so your dad was an academic what sort of science did he do? My father was in organic synthetic organic chemist when I went further on into life and did my university degree, which was in chemistry. Automatics? He was utterly horrified. That I really didn't like organic chemistry at all wasn't very good at it. But in early days when we were small children, I have one brother. So when we were small children we suspend large amounts for time, Dan and Cantu, carry down in the very south of the Republic of Arlen where my grandparents lived, and we used to be deposited down there for the summertime, which we absolutely adored. Would he get up to? I mean, anything and everything we were kept occupied by my grandparents, and they just got us involved in the day to day running of the house. So my mom is the eldest of eight children. The youngest of those is only nine years older than me. So we were pretty much brought up the tail end of of of my mother's family. You know, my closest aide aunts and uncles are just like brother sisters. So we used to have just great fun. We would spend our time's getting up to mischief and generally causing trouble as young children. Do is it your mum study science as well. She did her herself. My dad met at university that both went to the university go away, and my mother studied botany particular. But that's how they how they got together. It was through a love of science said did you go along with you? With your mom on botany trip says a kidney, well, when we kind of began to grow up a little bit my mom decided that what she wants to do is go back to university to appear which was pretty unusual back in the nineteen seventies. So she went back in and at her PHD parttime at Trinity College, Dublin and that involved. Study of the flora and fauna of county Kerry, which is where she grew up, and we're her greats sort of love of of of the landscape walls. And so she used to do a lot of fieldwork up in the Boggs. The bog lands. Peak lands in county Kerry, and we would get dragged along, and I was actually thinking of just some of those experiences when I was reflecting before coming here. And I remember once where myself, and my brother were were set on little hillocks of of sort of grass that sits between the bulk holes and be we're told not to move because they just stay on that note move at one point mom had gone out into the a little bit further on and add called our attention jumped up and down the whole of the shook. So that was why we weren't to move because we were standing on the edge of a bog. He just what what happens if you fall into a ball into a hole. What happens then usually you can get yourself out again. But some of these buckles or very deep on they're literally falling into into just going through water. Basically some of them are very deep dangerous, but I learned from very early age. How to what we used to call bulk hop? So you hop from these little little tussock of of of plant material that you know, are safe to stand old. And but yeah, those were those were quite early. Members miss you falling on your book hopping fall into a bog I slipped into a buckle once only up to my knee and never did it twice. How did you mom and dad get interested in fire and become far investigators while it was it was really interesting, actually because my my father point was working at a place called institute of technology in Kevin street, which is where I subsequently did my undergraduate degree, and he was in the chemistry department there. And he knew a lot of colleagues in police force just worked around the corner. So these socialist together one one of them had asked whether or not he'd be able to help in regards to an explanation about a fire, particularly how the fire might have started, and what might have caused it. And as a consequence of that piece of work. They started to do some casework primarily on the civil side almost exclusively on the civil side. So that's for insurance companies rather than for criminal cases. They just simply got called to do more. And more of that work. Started up a company. Those were around in Ireland mom and dad started. They were the only one. So they were exclusively the only Irish based pharmacist Gatien company for the civil courts on my mom was the only female far investigator in Arden for many many years. So so that's how they started these two lots and lots of casework it was a time back in those days when almost every fire because of the way which insurance companies would pay out almost every fire would be investigated. So there was a lot of work for them to do how much did, you know about they work, and what it entailed when you growing up. It was it's interesting because when my brother, and I were growing up signs was always discussed in the house. So it was always over the dinner table, though, would be conversations about their latest job that they had been looking at and what different physical evidence looked like and what it meant. And that sort of thing myself, my brother used to earn our pocket money by. Ticking photographs this was wet photography back in the day before digital commerce, wet wet photography sticking photographs that have been developed onto sheets of four paper to be incorporated into their reports. What photographs have follow photograph affiars the inside of the scenes, so what they would do is on the back of the photograph. They put a number. So that that would tell us the sequence it would go in and they put an arrow usually which which told us which way up should go. Because when you look at photographs that are almost narrowing into areas of interest within a fire scene. It's actually quite hard to tell which way they are because you're looking at black detail on a black background. So it's quite difficult contextualising. So they would still allow Mr. what direction it should go in and. My brother, and I would get five Pence photograph it went up to ten Pence from graph as inflation kicked him. And that's what we would do for for was great. Do you? Remember what you thought about those images with either disturbing stole? No. If there was ever a fire that involved any sort of injury or fatality than that would wouldn't be investigated initially as a civil case, it would be it would go into the criminal side of things. So no, these were just lots of pictures of Burt black stuff, but it was for us. It was it was it was a way to earn a few quid back in those days told us the value of of money. But it was it meant we were exposed to as opposed the realism of how science can actually be made useful in a very very tangible sense. There were other occasions when MoMA dot would do what we call now at hawk experiments. So they were do. An experiment test particular hypothesis, but do it outside of controllable rotary circumstance our scenario, and I I don't remember this myself. But I remember my mother telling me about it that in one case, the potential ignition scenario walls, you know, talent of toilet rolls that were all together. And that was it was in there that that's where the fire had started. And so she tells the story of my dad getting one of these bundles of toilet rolls and putting it on the kitchen table type give it a go and put IDO cigarette. Enter something into something to to get it going, and they sat there and watched it for a while. And as it started to produce a fair bit of smoke my own set. Gene has now which she did, and it sort of burst into flames out in the backyard. So lessons learned. That's experiment. Yes. Please. Don't set your own house on far. It was always a bit of a giggle when they moved into she lives in a lovely old farmhouse now when they moved into that farmers initially back must be thirty years ago. Now, getting fire insurance was will always going to be an interesting one. So take admit what they did on those. Yes. Yes. But it's, you know, farthest patients very small industry, so in Arlington particular back, then everybody knew everybody and so woman Daba well known by the loss assessors loss adjusters from the insurance company. It's hard to imagine a sort of more appropriate way for far investigated to be brought up then, you know, at the very knee of the first far investigators in in their home country. Did you always wanna pursue this sort of job yourself goodness? No, not at all. It's people always rebel against their. Parents do don't they in? So I didn't want to be an academic, which I currently am. And I didn't want to be far investigator, which I also do in terms of casework I wanted to be archaeologist actually. And if I couldn't be archaeologist I wanted to be a geologist on. I didn't get the points to get to university to do either of those things. So I ended up doing chemistry and mathematics. I ended up then subsequently doing appreciate chemistry on then job at the university of Strathclyde where. Air. I ended up teaching pharma's station starting to casework. So for your own study. What you started with was K Mistry's at the key scientific training and in what you do if for me. Yes, I was good at science. And my undergraduate degree was in majoring in chemistry and mathematics. And I was always good at math about and I like my much. So those two disciplines actually worked very closely together, though, some people might not put them together. And I know require my PHD students to do a fair bit of mathematics to understand statistics. Which they don't thank me for many of the time was something about fire itself that was seductive to you. That's a really good question. I'm not sure I would say seductive. I always found it. A fascinating with the way in which my parents one is a chemist what is Bodmer so from quite different disciplines, but the way in which they could see the physical evidence that they encountered in a fire scene and use that to track back the story of the fire and the narrative of the fire, and that's quite a challenging thing to do because of the level of destruction that you see in some of these scenes, but it was it was again making the science that you understand around head things burn or around. How things behave when you heat them up and making that into something useful that could be used almost as a tool to reveal the past. And that was really interesting way of. Really making science work in the real world. And so in that regard, it was it was a really interesting apllications thousand liking setting. Probably shouldn't say that. If afar has taken place in a building nave what stage. Do you get involved as an investigator? It depends much on what we're being asked to do. And who is asking us to do that. So if I'm involved or asked to get involved, by for example, in Scotland it will be the the crown office, which is the prosecutorial service, then it's a matter of working with the police an in particular what we would call a senior investigating officer and a crime scene managers their job to manage the experts going in and out of the scene, and we would sit with them. I we would devise a strategy for all of the different experts going in. So that we all know what each other is doing. We'll nobody needs are and we can work around and in combination with each other. So it's a very structured approach to undertaking that scene investigation and that would involve them from fire investigation perspective. Our job is to the initial partly. Try to determine where the fire started. And then what caused the fire in that area in that location? So it's called an origin Kohl's determination, but we're also interested in how the fire moved between moved into building or between buildings. So how'd he did that? When you go into a side. What you look for I often in fire scenes, it becomes it becomes relatively straightforward to locate the for example, in in a building the room of origin when I say relatively straightforward. That depends, of course on the level of damage, but usually there's one one room that might be damaged to a greater extent than others. And that's a good place to start when you observe them. What I would call physical evidence. So just the way in which the physicality of that room looked so what bits are blackened what bits are charred and what bits are melted. Then looking at those indicators can help you determine zone into an area where the fire much of burned for longer or where the farm auto burned hotter. Under various physical indicators that are leftover week-old burn patterns, so their patterns left on furnishings on the walls on the structure that allow you to then interpret those patterns to say this is the area where the far most likely started. So that's one aspect of it. There are a number of other aspects and things that you use was witness statements and fire investigators it's not uncommon for us to speak directly to witnesses. It's a bit unusual for forensic scientists to do that. But fire investigators we need to get first-hand knowledge from say the owner or from witnesses that sold the fire develop or from the fire service that put the fire out in order to gather information about what was it. Like when you saw it last bit prior to the fire went to the fire start. What did you see when you turned up to put the fire out and so on whereas other friends excited to tend not to get involved in that discussion process and would to the police, but for us it's really useful to to have that firsthand account. And that gives us an idea of what should have been there early swabbed should've been there in the building. Or at least what the people who were talking to said had been there. And when you do insurance cases, sometimes what they say wasn't really there at all. But it gives us a really good idea of what it is that we're walking walking into so you'd take witness accounts of witness information, we would also take into consideration. Some theoretical understanding of how things burn that set of theories called fire dynamics, which come from two disciplines when as far science. So the the science of combustion and the other is fire engineering. So what happens when you put a fire in a building? And what happens to that building? So those are two very well unrebutted established academics how much of that sort of science is available to the naked eye usually in in a site of a fair amount. So as a fire investigator the other area that we look at is actress ity and look at what the electrical circuitry can tell us in terms of false might have occurred because I can also guide us to areas where? The fire may have originated using a technique called arc fault mapping. So we need to be a little bit of jack-of-all-trades. We need to understand how things burn. So what's the nature of the combustion process? What does it require in order for different materials to get involved in the burning process? And so if I was going to burn a piece of wood than I need to heat it up I because the the solid stone burn the gases that you that you calls to come from the solids as you heated that burns. So I need to know that process really dumb question is that true for everything it's not the solids that bone. It's the guesses that caused correct? So if you burn petrol than petrol is at a temperature that's already producing gases because you can smell it. So what you're smelling of the chemicals that are coming off the liquid the liquid is made up of two hundred and fifty plus different chemicals. And it's those chemicals themselves when mixed with air are the things that ignite. If I want to burn a solid than I always have to gasify. I this is a principle of fi that is new for me. Thank you. So in order to get a flame burning you. I have to have a localized heat source somewhere nearby for long enough to cause this this what we call thermal decomposition. So the breaking up of the molecules within the material so that you have chemicals as gas you mix that what surgeon, and then you ignited, and that's what burns so that understanding that just basic process of combustion allows fire investigator to start to be able to say if I had a fire here than I needed to have a localized heat source here on this process occurring in the process, always the same broadly speaking, so it's that basic knowledge of just combustion chemistry. That's really important. And it means that you can tell the difference between or you can give who can have an idea as to what localized temperatures for how long need to be a particular place. So different woods, for example, will burn to different degrees. Plastics you need to put more energy into plastic to calls. This gusts Fakih. Action to happen. Then you do for would. And so on so using that information you can start to get an idea of what may have happened as Niffer dunks ever useful in in trying to find sources of fire. Absolutely. We call them hydrocarbon dogs or accelerate dogs. They are brilliant. When you when you watch them work, and the dogs got a much greater sense of and sensitivity of smell them than a human being has the dogs are trained to. Trigger to or to to to give an alert for the presence of combinations of chemicals that are present in. We would call ignited liquid. So petrol diesel kerosene that sort of stuff on there trained to alert on a combination of of specific chemical markers within those and solvents are substances such that if they find them, then they will usually do a possible or to they'll sit down and sort of point their nose, and then that indicates to an investigator where to go to sample and the dog gets a squeaky toy to play. But I've seen these dogs and some close colleagues have got. Fire dogs, and they're they are amazing bit similar to the kind of dogs are used for explosives, which you also have dogs are used cadaver dogs, which are trained on on decomposition sense of decomposition. So you've drugstore drug dogs explosives cadaver dogs out far does if it's a side that were far has been put out by five fighters. How does that complicate your job it it can complicate it? But our firefighters are getting a lot more training around her not complicated. So my job is to go in and look at the patterns on the on the on the furnishings that are left over and look at the furnishings where they were in situ at the time of the fire. If which is happened in the past the fire fighters will go in on they will do their job and extinguish the fire. But sometimes they have done in the pastas, then remove the furniture thrown out the window then half of the scene that I need and the indicators on the the. The physical evidence that I need has now out in the garden. And that makes our job really challenging also the way in which firefighting is done certainly in the United Kingdom has changed in terms of the mount of water that they're put into the scene. So they tend not to pulse. The fire. So they use a spray of water rather than a jet that can move things around and the spray helps to maintain the integrity or that doesn't move things around quite so much. So that can be really, really helpful. The firefighters also provide witness testimony as to where they where they saw the smoke. I the flames cutter of flames that sort of thing, but firefighting activity can also cause its own physical evidence. So for example, if you look at some glass, sometimes that are that's recovered from fire scenes glass cumby damaged in a very particular way that people in the past of have said suggests the use of an liquid petrol and an actual fact it's cold water going on a hot blast. Also, the breakdown of some. Cement material should process called spoiling, and that can happen when you put cold water onto hot concrete, so indicators that could be mis interpreted or sometimes down to firefighter activity, but we're pretty good at understanding what they are now apart from photographs do you take things away from sane the visit he absolutely you can take a number of different samples, so you can take samples that might relate to the potential presence of liquid so liquid etc. And you would bag those up and take them back to the grocery for scientific testing. Which can also take other items, particularly electrical items, if the fire is thought to have an electrical goals, and those have to be recorded removed, very carefully. So photographed in situ so in the scene and then carefully removed. So the bits don't fall off them which often happens or can happen and take him back into the lorry for proper examination. It's it's tempting. To poke and prod at things inside in these scenes, but that's really not a good idea and from us from a scientific examination perspective because as you poke and prod at them, it's fall off them. And you're looking at you know, trying to trying to look at something in a highly contaminated. Black Darty smelly background that really doesn't isn't conducive to to actually properly examining items. So that should be brought back to abort examined carefully appropriate. These must be fairly dangerous site sometimes for investigators. What kind of cautions? Do you have to take the can be that certainly true? And I think certainly my dad at one point when he was in a fire scene fell through a trap door down into into a basement didn't injure himself. But it was it's a lesson to ballooned you're in a structure that could be compromised could be dangerous. You are in a space where there's lots of sharps, lots of nails and broken glass, and various other hazards around the place, we take precautions in just the. Physical equipment that we wear. So we would wear steel toe Cup boots and heavy overalls. Maybe white suits that you see some of the crime people wearing as well hard. Hats gloves. Facemasks? It's a very glamorous look. But that's what you would be. We'll be dressed up in. And sometimes you might be respirators. If there's a lot of dust the scenes can contain a special stick to contain all sorts of of potential hazards. So it's it's not a glamorous business to to be involved. You mentioned that you teach far investigation. How do you go about teaching students to do these kind of work? It's I really enjoy teaching it, and the kind of students that I that I teach are both students of frantic science at master's level, usually, but also practitioners the practitioners. You're really looking at honing the skills that they've got from my perspective. The best way of teaching. This is almost like a master apprentice type of approach where for the people coming to it cold new you need to teach them combustion chemistry to start with. So we go into the chemistry, and we're going to some of the the scientific aspects of of the work of the nature of of the work. And what materials do when you expose them to heat. And then. Has to be coupled with the practical aspect, so when I see your eyes light up slightly at this article. Really serve isn't it? When I was teaching at the university Strathclyde Glasgow used to take the students out for for a bit of a field test where we would do things like set fire to petrol and set fire to a little tiny small pool of petrol little tiny small pool of diesel. And it really explains the difference between what what does it night ability mean, and what are the requirements for setting fires things might have thrown the petrol-bomb with. If you ever hear that rumor, it's a complete room about the Paul toilet rolls while no I never did that that was my fault. Maybe that's where the experimentation capable put in all seriousness. Understanding how these things work from a practical sense, really important. So I've been very fortunate to be involved in the training of fire investigators in practical courses, and in those circumstances, we would set fires in compartments where we let the fire run. Then extinguish it before it gets to a particular stage in its development, and then we would send the investigators into it. So there's what we what we learn from having controlled fires in that way. Is hugely hugely valuable to the farmer station community because it's it's allowing us to really look at the development of fires particular scenarios. And that's that sort of information is is incredibly useful and valuable. This is conversations with Sarah, KOMO ski ABC right here. You can subscribe to conversations podcast to find out more just hate to see dot net. Are you slash conversations? Neave tell me about the socal Philpott case. The Philpot case was a really tragic event that happened in Darby in twenty thirteen. I'm not mistaken where six young children died in a in a house fire. There was a subsequent investigation of that. And the father of those children was accused along with an Arbor other people of setting the fire himself for various reasons. One of the questions that came up in the investigation was why the children didn't wake up during the the fire event because the hosts had been fitted with smoke alarms on those mocal arms were active and working. And so I started working with a colleague of mine. Call Dave costs, and Dave was one of the fire. Investigators in the field puck is I did not get involved in the farthest cushion. But I did get involved in the subsequent piecework. I one of the questions that we were trying to tackle was woods a conventional smoke alarm. Wake-up children in a fire. And so we did set up some experiments using children volunteers where we sounded a conventional smoke alarm and to see just what the wake-up rate would be across a group of children on we tested about over thirty children when we tested them each six times. So that we had a good robust number, and what we found was that in only twenty percent of the cases to the children wake up twenty twenty percents. It was a real surprise. And it answered the question for the courts. But it also, of course, raised a huge issue for us. Because what we what we know we can't on. No. And so it started David myself doing work subsequent to that to try to find a sound that we could use a smoke alarm that would reverse those numbers, and we have and we ran about two years ago, a large-scale citizen science project based out of the university of Dundee where we asked people to play the alarm sound that we had come up with to their kids asleep in their own homes. Under normal circumstances and compare it with their normal firearm, and we got the reverse of those statistics. And now, we know we can wake up about eighty to ninety percent of children of different ages using this new San what was different about the sound the sound walls. It's it's combination of Tucson's the first part of it is Vel there like the sound you hear when a truck is reversing that low intermittent beeping tone, and the second part of it is an actor's voice saying wakeup has some far, and when you combine those two things together, then we started to see a much much better. So the Waco bright with with the kids. Do you know what's going on with that name? Why they why though sounds and voice works better than a conventional far along. We don't if we're going to extend the research work looking at that would be really useful thing to do just to see what what what is it? That's triggering different responses. There's some other work that has been done some of it here in a strata that's looked at the reaction to human voice, which seems to be better. And maybe it's because. When when we're born we're not conditioned to digital sounds, or we we learn those grow up, but we are conditioned to to to the voice of another human being. So maybe it's got something to do with that the work that we did was the largest ever scale test of its kind, and it's the only one that's been done in people's homes at that at that level that we've got five hundred families involved in so the data's very robust that seems like such an extraordinary fact, folk for parents to be aware of what what can people do with that knowledge that conventional fire alarms don't seem to wake up kids too. Big messages that come out of the research so far one. Is that smoke alarms work? They wake up adults. That's what they're designed to do. So having conventional smoke alarms fitted is up so essential. And the second is that if you have children you need to create a fire plan in your home. That will involve you getting your children out of bed rather than a Suming that the alarm awake them up. So you need to just change the methodology change. What you do if your smoke alarm should go off that. You shouldn't expect your children to wake up to it. You were a far investigation expert with the inquiry into the Phil tower fire that's an ongoing criminal investigation. So you able to say anything about that not really? So I worked for the public inquiry, which is is currently finished its first phase of examination which was around what happened on the night of the event and the chairman is currently writing his report. So I was asked to give evidence in that first phase of the inquiry, but it is also subject to criminal inquiry at the moment. So so I'm not really a position to say anything more. Can you describe what your role was that? I as I was asked in terms of terms of reference that I was asked to to comply with I was asked to review information that related to the determination of the origin. The calls of the farce aware of the fire start at the initial start, and what may have caused it? I've been using the term forensics in thinking about what talk to you about today. What do you think about that tone, forensics, absolute horror, and I've already corrected forensics isn't a word. Sorry, everybody. Word frenzy comes from Latin which means. Means it's a it's a lot more called frenzy, which means are pertaining to the forum, and it comes from how disputes were settled way back in the court of room when people would come to the four minute will be discussed and it would be decided into liberated upon. And so for ENZA means within the framework of essentially, a legal discussion. So for ends excites means science placed within that legal framework forensics. Doesn't mean anything at all. And so please don't use it. Easy for index. Science TV producer. I think. It means ratings doesn't it? So what are the most commonly used types of evidence? Infringing science. It depends. I think very much on the nature of the case that you're working on. So you can divide different aspects of friends excise work into different disciplines, this forensic chemistry. So that might be drugs. Fires explosions at toxicology that sort of thing are also friends Bala. Ji so which is now dominated by DNA analysis, but there's also analysis of things like blood patterns and analysis of fibers and hairs and other types of materials, and then there's a whole area that looks at what we would call trace evidence of things like paint glass, but also fingerprints and other materials that might become one of the scene. But one of the really important things. I think that that would emphasize is that the science part of it comes in from the very beginning. The whole process starts at the crime scene and ends of the court, and we need to bring scientists. Rigor and discipline into all of that. So crime scene should be viewed from the lens of a scientist as a science problem where we can bring a scientific approach rigor into the solution of that problem. So what traces do we collect? Why do we collect them on water? The appropriate means and methods of that collection. But also looking at all of those traces gathered together from a scientific perspective to problem solving. Then you move into an abortive phase where you start to look at a more in depth investigation of the particular items that you might have gathered from your scene or have got from other areas and sources, and then you go into what is probably one of the hardest bits, which is the communication of science, which you have to in written form in your court reports. But also, you have to do in spoken form when you give evidences an expert witness, and that communication bit were not very good at and and it's one of the areas, I think within the who forensic science and criminal Justice Demane that really needs to be addressed is the problem with the forensic science. Tests all with the public who can be pretty ignorant about signs basic sites, including myself in that I think it's a challenge on a problem. And I think I think we're all in it together because having a fair just judicial system is something that all of us demand on us democratic societies. It's what we should amount. The owners are the expectation of an expert witness to be able to explain their tests in a way that makes sense to the lay person is a significant responsibility. But it's also I think the responsibility of the courts to be able to get that scientists to explain their science in a straightforward way. So that it is understandable. Well, there was a report released I think in in two thousand nine that really shown the lights Sean a lot on on maybe the science behind forensic science. Tell me about that. And why was such a big issue? So the report you're talking about was produced by the National Academy of science in the United States, and it was cold strengthening forensic science in the United States, and it really Sean alight on the weakness, I guess of I would put it of science that underpinned a lot of the forensic evidence types that were appearing in courts, and in particular, it looked at the. Case for science that to underpin or what was under pinning things like fingerprint comparison ballistics matching bullets to guns. What kind problems did it find with those? Most cases at found. The director wasn't any science behind it at all which is a startling kind of worrying that a lot of the comparative processes were dumb in a way that was very subjective with very little object of so measurements taken it was more. What can I see in this fingerprint? And can I see it in another fingerprint and that science wise in that observe -ation in comparison counted science because it's it's very subjective. So it's down to an individual an individual's ability to see those particular marks in the comparison on the piece of evidence that you've at another person coming along may or may not see those particular elements and indeed the fingerprint area was subjected to the fingerprint comparison was subjected to a lot of exposure around this whole debate. And because of two cases one misidentification of an individual's been involved in the Madrid bombings in case. The FBI. I did on another an inquiry, which is ultimately Enquirer, which is called a Scottish fingerprint inquiry, which related to the mis-identification fingerprint from a crime scene. Well, how prince analyzed Nate two different things as a fingerprint and a finger Bach and a fingerprint is is is the print taken from a known person. So if I was to collect your fingerprints and over you are they would be fingerprints finger marks or taken from scenes where the identity of the individualism. No. So what you do in a comparison. Is you take a finger Mark lifted from scene you enhance it usually with chemicals. So that you bring up the details in the Mark, and there's a picture of it. And that photograph goes into an automated system which compares some of the characteristics that are in the print in the Mark with a big database throws out a set of top contenders. Based on essentially machine learning actually that sounds very convincing to mitch's, which is great so far so good. The final decision making process. You might have maybe ten or fifteen or twenty. Candidate individuals that you're then go to do a final comparison against fingerprints. So they're known prints with the mock, and that's done by human be those comparisons are done by usually by looking at it down, and it lends or or or a magnifying glass pointing out the different characteristics within the finger on the fingerprint to see are there. Areas of comparison, why current machine do that our is able to take more subtle variations. It's what machine to that. As a really good question. And it's because we've never let the machines to it. So some of the strands of research that are going on not necessarily at our research center, but elsewhere his to try to make that process more objective. In other words, rather than just saying feature Xs present or it's not actually taking some measurements of the distances between the features and so forth. But there's quite a lot of resistance to it. Because there is a school in friends science that says because I've done this in thousands of cases, then this is the way it always needs to be done and my research center, and I know the work of others as well as saying actually, that's not really a scientific answer to a question because if we're going to do science, we're going to give this type of evidence the thority of science, you know, the six hundred plus year old thority that science should have. Then we need to actually do it properly and to bring scientific rigor means reproducibility repeatability, accuracy precision and error rates. So it's note that the use of thing D'amoto fingerprint is that problem. It's the way that it's being analyzed is not being done to to the best scientific. It's the comparison process. That's that is is that needs to be scientifically rigorous other examples, whether our challenges are around ballistics matching bullets. Gun. So here that the evidence you're looking at is as you fire a bullet Denic devoured of a gun on that little lead pellet moves itself term or is moved down the barrel of the gum. Then traces of that journey are left on the pellet. So little scrapes and scratches what we call straight marks little tiny scrapes and scratches on the on the bullet, and those scrapes scratches are compared to bullets that are test fired from a suspect gun, for example to see are they present on both ballots both bullets and some are and some are not. And there's variability each time. You fire a bit down a gun as to what would be present. And what won't be present? But there's no solid scientific. Studies have been done to say how reliable it is to match those station marks against each other. And what what a match look like how many do I need to be the same, and what differences are acceptable in terms of the variability of of those pieces of trace evidence. The other. That we don't know very much about is around how materials when they do transfer from one individual to another how how that transfer happens, and how long were cheerio were will persist. So let me give you an example. If I if I prepare my dinner tonight, and I I'm going to use a sharp knife in my kitchen to my vegetables, and you come round for dinner, and you hold a knife or a hand you tonight. So some of your DNA and fingerprints transferred to the knife. And then somebody else comes in later that evening and stabs me with the knife or stop somebody else with an kills them and their DNA may or may not be transferred to the knife your DNA still on there. So even though you weren't involved in the act of using the knife or a malign event here is still there. So we need to understand about that transfer process worse than that or potentially worse than that. If I shook your hand, and then went home and chopped up vegetables with a knife. I could conceivably transfer some of your. Dna from my hand onto that night. So even though you were never encountered with a knife. At all your DNA could still be found. So is this this aspect of DNA material transfer is that something that scientists still working out absolute? So it's something it's a piece of work that our research centers now about to do a deep dive into because we don't know very much about what does that mean for the way that DNA is used has been used in evidence in courts worrying, it means that we need to know more about it. We need to know how these materials transfer persist, the technology that starts is been used in DNA evidence has been driven to create technological solutions. In other words to be able to get DNA traces faster better more sensitive. Information presented to the courts in a in a scientifically robust way, and it is typically robust. There's no doubt about that. But because it's become more and more sensitive. What we now see is more and more mixed profiles. So more profiles of more than one person because the techniques are very sensitive picking up DNA. So in the past you'd need something that was the size of a fifty cent piece in terms of a stained DNA profile from it. Now, you can get it from a single cell so single-cell. Yeah. So technology's amazing. It really is fantastic. But it's created for us and unintended consequence. And that is that now you've got lots and lots of mixed profiles. Where you've got what we call complex profiles with contributions from more than one person. And so the challenge now becomes a mathematical. How do we unmixed those profiles? So that we can say who was present. And and to bought that degree of presence walls in terms of of them, whether they they contributed to a greater degree or not. To that mix proof. Those are complex question. Exactly. My heart goes out to the Jura in a in a trial when this sort of evidence auntie bec- evidence, which from the way describing it is that we should be even more cautious or ask even more questions about the kind of evidence that might be presented a scientific. Absolutely. You know, we live in a world now where the technological advances have allowed us to sequence the entirety of the human genome. What remaining piece of science that balls in forensic science? We still look at broadly speaking the same parts of DNA. We don't look at the whole genome will look at parts of DNA that were looked at I thirty five years ago when the first DNA prophets were delivered in in the UK. We haven't moved on from how we examine what bits of DNA. We look at what we've just done as getting is got much much better and much more sensitive at looking at those little bits of DNA. So the science in terms of the technology has moved on. Some bands. But the science in terms of keeping pace with what's going on in the rest of the world around and sequencing whole genomes and looking at that as a tool for the identification of an individual. We're we're not even in the ballpark. So we need to in in in my view start to look up the modern trends of scientific research, whether it's DNA technology, whether it's quantum computing. Whether it's amazing things that we are beginning to understand about material science, we need to bring those real scientific breakthroughs and discoveries into the forensic science space so that we can use technological advancements in science into serve Justice. I mean, what greater need is there then to bring the most science into the judicial system. I can't help thinking about all these people might have been convicted, you know, walking free from dodgy scientific evidence. I think it's a big challenge. One of the things within our research center that we do in a way, I think that nobody else does. We're we're funded to do to be positively disruptive. Which is great you give a middle-aged Irishwoman ten million pounds teller to disrupt fantastic. And but we we are positively disruptive because we bring the entire community with us. So when we look at what areas of research, we're going to do we bring together a group of practicing scientists within those disciplines we put them in a room with scientists from outside of friends who are at the very cutting edge of what scientific discovery is whether it's astrophysics or whether it's Kontum computing, or whatever it might be. And we bring them bring also into that space, our senior judges. So that we have for the very first time an open discussion between the judiciary. So the law side of of the tent and the scientific side of the tent because prior to this the only time we'd ever speak to each other is in the courtroom, which isn't very adversarial process. And but this is a time. On a space where we can am look at the challenges that we face together and come up with a co designed and co created solution, and we also throw into the mix what we call wildcards. These are people who are from completely different disciplines. And we follow the great developments that occurred in the Scottish enlightenment where you brought scientists and artists and writers and businessmen and engineers together and threw them in a room with a problem and said come out when you got it sorted. And so we do that. And we bring in writers we mentioned foul McDermott in the early stages of the few so Val as being to one of our strategic conversations because they think differently, and they look at how we communicate things differently. So it's it's bringing all of the skills that we can to bear on the problem that we have the challenge that we have and then we'll devise a research map as a consequence of those conversations every one of our conversations we have a graphic artist at it and the artist draws the conversation. It was fantastic. They create these big huge. Campuses of cartoons that capture what was said in the room over the two days of our strategic conversations, and they become the minutes of the meetings every gets a copy, and that reminds them what we said. And so we don't keep minutes of the meeting much more likely to be referred back till? They're just the people that to them are. So so talented just captured brilliantly. Also involve the good people of Dundee in some of your projects. Tell me about the soul shape. So one of the masterstrokes I think that we did was we brought into the team wonderful lady called Heather Doran who is our public engagement manager. So what we need to know is what the background abundance of different materials are in. This case foot remarks, what do you mean background? So how much stuff there is a normal scenarios normal people's houses normal? Walk of life as a worse. So example, might be if you go about your daily business. Walk around the pavements of Brisbane or any other city or any other place in the world. What's the chances of getting glass in your footwear? Stuck in your shoes? Because you walk payment where there's glassless everywhere. It's it's it's ubiquitous in societies everywhere. If you're subsequently unfortunate enough to be arrested and accused of burglary and that glasses recovered, and when it's analyzed it will be found usually to possibly match a window because trae difficult to to distinguish window from another. Then what are you going to do here? You are in the wrong place at the wrong time with potential physical evidence on your shoes that suggests that you might have been involved in breaking the glass window. So in order to try to address what that physical piece of evidence means we need to know what's normal look like in terms of last on people's shoes. So we work with school kids in a wonderful school called Monifieth hive and just outside of dundy and the the school children in Monte feet. Have worked with us to devise a. Citizen, science based experiment to measure the amount of glass on people's shoes. The soul-searching project what we're trying to do is we're trying to capture for type of footwear people wear. So what we're asking people to do is to take photographs of their shoes of the soul of their shoes. And then to carry out a very simple set of instructions that allows them to make where Mark so that's a a Mark of the soul pattern of your shoot. And to do it using the same action whether it's walking or running or jumping and six times. So that we get an understanding of how reproducible that Mark might be. And so it's about bringing in two in a fun experiment and exercise bringing in a an understanding of the rigor required to do scientific experiments within the context of a forensic science question because unless we know the variation of the print that's made. And by the sole of your shoe if you jump on something. Over and over. And then we can't help we can't hope to understand what we see in a piece of trace evidence that we recover from seen. So you'll mate with crime writer Val McDermott. What about TV shows? Are you a fan of what ching forensics on TV nave don't thing? I should comment on that from the grounds of island criminal myself. I we need to see it for what it is. Everybody loves the solving a mystery don't they what we get is forty minutes or an hour's worth of entertainment. And that's what it is. Where the where the danger arises is if the science is not portrayed accurately, so what TV programs to an- have done as they build an expectation that forensic science will solve everything that you always get it. Right. All of the time that the science. That's there is amazing magical and very fast, and that just isn't the real world, but their entertainment that's their job. My plea would be that the sciences portrayed accurately and rigorously which I think's to leads to happen in many of them. It sounds that. You still have a lot of fun doing. What you do? We do a lot of fun. We work hard within our center on we we think card, and and long about the scientific challenges that face forensic science. But it's certainly no no days ever. Dull certainly true. It's been a plan to talking to you and end learning so much more about frenzy science. Thanks so much name. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you. I guess conversations today was Nieve Nick dad who is director of the Leyva human research into frenzy science at the university of Dundee in Scotland and she's in Brisbane for the world science festival. This conversation will be up on our website shortly ABC dot net. Dada. Useless conversations, I'm Sarah can ski thanks for listening. You've been listening to a podcast of conversations with Sarah can ski for more conversations interviews head to the website. I base e dot net dot AU slash conversations. Discover more great ABC podcasts. Live radio and exclusives. On the ABC. Listen up.
Ep. 99: One Big Bed (The Chosen Saga)
"This is a head gum podcast. Hey everybody Murph here with an announcement about the campaign finale. Next week we will be live streaming episode one hundred on our twitch on Saturday may ninth at five. Pm Pacific Eight PM Eastern. The format won't be any different. It'll just be the episode audio with some art. But we wanted to have a chance for the community to listen together live. Our twitch is twitch dot TV slash NAD pod. That's Saturday may ninth at five. Pm Pacific Eight PM EASTERN ON TWITCH DOT TV Slash Abd P. O. D. next Thursday will post an announcement as a reminder and will let you know if the schedule changes so be on the lookout for that Will also be posting the episode audio into the regular podcast. Feed a Saturday night. After the episode is done airing on twitch in the meantime we wanted to once again. Thank everyone who's out there having to work amongst all of this craziness medical workers delivery people warehouse workers any employees any stores. That are still open. Thank you and stay safe now on with the show. Welcome to the campaign after the campaign. This is not another podcast. Welcome back to whom? Yeah every one of your dungeon master. Brian Murphy joined by Jake Hurwitz. Hard one foot. Emily Oxford John's ad hitting them. Dorks with the Paulie more. Now that's how you force a rhyme. Really I actually. I was very excited to have the word Dork. I was out. I've never used that word. In intro Oh I was just referencing. Curtis it was. It wasn't as good a slant. Rhyme isn't hurt is but it was pretty close. I mean I definitely want my next characteristic door a lot. Yeah and then. Of course we've got call. Tanner Beverly told goal. The Fifth Maze Master Gay Disaster. Let's do this all right. Is that the t shirt guys. The PAN ULTIMATE APP is everybody Christ excited and said I'm not emotionally ready. I got stage. Nerves baby am. I'm feeling itchy. Meets Narrate Y'all you know what let's get right into let's do a little recap so and last week. You guys faced the wraith of pestilence. Who had corrupted Dan and Dragon Coexists? The wraith quickly revealed that it was working in tandem with the horsemen of war or the door of war. Thanks hey go easy on. Please call Dork Dot Gov Doric. The dork of war had taken an the army of mine controlled trolls to the one hells in an attempt to steal the Hellfire Crown Moonshine and meemaw plane shifted than helped pender. Greens escaped on a motorcycle while Bev and hard one battled the wraith of pestilence during the fight. Beverly was trapped in powerful maze spell but escaped after following burdens familiar bubbles and receiving guidance from her. Dan himself returns to the material plane. Bevan. Hard-won were able to defeat their corrupted friends but not before coexist killed bow nor and badly damaged his body. Meanwhile in the one hells Moonshine meemaw. We're able to defeat the motorcycle trolls With the help of pender grains then used a Pixie polly more combo to quickly walk the horsemen of war into oblivion moonshine. Returned to the material plane and together. You held hands around boundary as BEV CAST. A powerful raise dead spell after two failed death saves in ultimate butthole clinching. Moment of the podcast vow band succeeded three times in a row and was revived. His wounds seemed to heal up with divine power as he took his first breath. And that is where we are now. So you guys are still in the middle of the city near the scattered bones of quicks and the signs of your battle People nearby are passed out in the streets due to the effects of pestilence is spell. You guys all kneel around bowel nor as he hugs you and takes labored breaths. I saw I saw the light. I thought I was. What did you see? Just kind of a bright white light and then I saw some some some darkness and and Lydia storeboard was there and she was like. It's not it's not your your time yet. You have have to go back and that type of deal. Hey Yeah it was. I don't feel what you see on an anti life matter and you see here. I can make tonic for you. I know how to deal with that. You guys see after a moment Abell nor passes out Oh hard-won given that berry now Yeah of course. I Searched my pocket having eaten the Berry. You find some. You have jammy fingers from having squeezed berry juice into your mouth and just thought you were going to do your thing so I figured we had to take my hand and I'll mash up into a paste. I heard went tries to wrench starts gagging Zhang could solve this but she sits back and watch this show. It does seem like Balladur's okay. He's just exhausted. You See. He seems stable but he looks like he's going to need some rest. I think I think this is just the effects of braise dead because it is not as gentle of a resurrection spell US others a heck of a spell spout now some powerful Magic Young Bev. I'm feeling pretty exhausted myself after that one. Yeah I can imagine. Yeah you did. Thank you very much you guys seen meemaw comes over and gently picks up bowel nor and she goes. We should give them to your ship. He's going to need some time to recover you. Did you did good beverly. I don't think revivify would would cut it in this case. That's that's good to know I will. We make got on this one and it seemed like the right move. Yeah it definitely was good job. Kid takes you all okay. That was good berries even even good Mary to get into the good berries they were in the front is loans. This should be called grape berries on me. My has just popped a little berry as she like went and picked up. Bow Nor y'all this is serious yaw. We need to focus in the good Mary's. And what are Y'all doing? Laura Hart once in a while Omar Age sometimes the berries. All that will do see that as you all pick nor and begin heading back to the ship. Other people around the city begin to pop. They look okay. You see the Sturdier folks like guards and warriors and whatnot in there like a bright plate mail and cooter you guys. Don't see Khuda right now. He's he was at the university where he attacked Ballard Staff Bushel a berries and he's doing what he does best Alma Dino. If there were any casualties from this oh amongst the folk you know the common populace I you see. She looks around. And Yeah you guys see that like guards or waking up and stuff and then they're followed by kind of the normal everyday citizens you see like older people and kids and stuff and there's there's a murmur of confusion but you do hear people like crying out in pain and the distance and this is the aftermath of an attack of a tragedy so nods and she goes. I'm sorry sweetheart I I I. I think it's unlikely that we got out of this unscathed. Okay well we'll y'all bring bow nor to the ship and I might start making the rounds doing a little medicine woman routine a she nods and she goes. Let's get nor back and I'll come with you. We'll do it together. Okay right so you guys see Yeah there's there's this calm chaos around the city where it's nothing violent there's no riots or like people going crazy or anything. It's just the after math of this insane. Thing where the entire city had insane bloodlust and then was knocked out like people jumped out of windows to get to you. People fell out of you. Know the windows of their homes and things like that people broke their doors down to try to get to you so there is kind of the aftermath of this chaos. You guys also see as you're walking away from the site of your battle you guys see the de Animated Skeleton of bubbles the cat who lies on the Earth peacefully bubbles and as you pass it you see a vision of a ghostly. Black Cat Russia in the direction that you saw the visions of like her Dan Coexistence NFL O. Hug PA PA so tight in here. I'm glad they're all together. At least I think we also got to give them bones. A proper burial OSCO owns. Yeah this looks like a situation where like bubbles was probably just urge. Dan's regular familiar a cat who died that Dan brought back to life and now that earns not here anymore. They're both ghosts on another place still deserves a proper burial. These bones deserve their final resting. Place yeah I pinch my nose and I pick up all of his bones to build a museum around one bone in your bag and it's just like incumbents you for the soldiers it'd be cool to make some armor actually. Can we take it so that someday when I'm a dragon rider my dragon can wear bone armor Yeah it's GonNa take a little bits. He got steak. I just put a sticky note on all them property moonshine and seven claimed claimed you mark mark the bones pretty stinky. I don't think anyone was gonNA take him. But that's probably a good idea. Mooch omelettes a lick them so no one else wants a whole recall. The bones your goes I think people are going to be that concerned about the bones considering they all were by it. I go into a thrift store anxiety mode where I'm in competition with everyone around me for the best. Don't forget the metatarsal I like just do. Yeah knuckles the bag. You guys here. Bow Nor tossing and turning in his coma. Safe everything the bag doing wrong. Can't disrespect the bag like We need him now more than ever do it. You don't put the small boats on the bottom. They'll get rush. Big bones saved the metatarsal for last. Let's get to the show it so A few minutes later You guys get to the storm born and you see that at first. The ship is rattling in the wind. But after a moment's you guys see that the Arcane bubble goes back up It seems like Louganis or whoever hells must have restored it as soon as they got their wits about them. All right. It's good to have dad's does it. Does it stink like my daddy's magic. Go ahead and give me an organic advantage because you know your daddy's magic and almost imperceptible extinct That is the distinct barrier of dirty daddy. All right yeah you see him on a home just like surrounding the barrier. Yeah you see like little worms in as a barrier around. Ask People Luke saying if I ever knew it so you guys see yeah that the ship was kind of moving in the wind here. It was like tethered to this. Like Air DOC on the side of the city but now it just like sits there floating calmly levitating. You see that. The city is once again protected and the storm born arrests easily in the sky at this air doc you guys see. Cordona gold cobalt and the rest of the crew. Brush up to greet you see. You've got everything back in order was you were gone for a while. Was Everything Okay Butler. Well nobody recorded the movies. We can't show you that but We can give you a quick recap for sure. Yeah we gave them a quick recap and then I really try to pivot. I really try to emphasize that the bones of this corruption dragon will be used to protect future dragon. Yeah you see that. Cordona is deeply offended by the idea of reincarnating dragon and using it for chronic means so goes an insult nature and the sky ever said you see you guys for talking about dragons and stuff founders just like nearly dead and be Muslim stands for don't goes oh should we get him to bed. Yes let's let's bring him to the to the captain's quarters good I've already. I've already redone it. Excuse me did you lift any floorboards. I grabbed him by the neck. Yes I found all of the art and I've hung it tastefully. I if you fucking pervert you probably bay did of yourself like a pervert a little more John. I'm just in the bowtie. All right everyone. Let's get your nearly dead friend into bed absolutely okay all right. Let's let's check out the cab decor. I don't know what are found in there but our was down there. This was not my ship. I inherited it. It's not my stuff. Looked like it was an artist that was really obsessed with the female door for female. Who makes it makes sense because my dad? I also contagious. So cordell on leads. You guys to the captain's quarters where he's already done a lot of redecorating. You see the bed has been made. There are little plants by the window and he is framed some afar artwork beautiful about a nude. Then when it's framed so I really appreciate that isn't that is a nice bubbler touch looks at it and she just goes just as mater yes. Asthma Lower Mater. We appreciate the new. The new yeah. I'm glad I'm glad this art. That was just laying around the cabin done by someone else is serving a purpose. Actually this is pretty cool. Do we believe him doing that? This is a hard one. Go ahead and deception check. That is it's an eight eight eight tiny thumbs even with your passive insights You guys you guys know cool. Yeah I wake at him and say the cross hatching amazing. I shouldn't have signed him under boob place balance in the bed and Tuck them in. He's sleeping deeply almost He's like near in a coma on. But as you watch him you see that his breathing is consistent. He's breathing these slow breaths but deep breaths and he seems like he's going to recover. I get some bud heavy in an IV drip for them. Dis comedian diluted. Just this just a watered down to him. He seems to be doing better but looks kind of sweaty and red faced. Excuse I I don't know how badly he took everything. But tomorrow I can cast regenerate on him clees- on. Let's try and help them heal Whatever sort of went on inside his body during that process? Great Yeah you see after a few minutes Lou. Connie's appears in the ship like teleport's there you see he rushes over and he hugs you moonshot. He goes daughter up so sorry I was afflicted I don't know how long it was so good wing food for not seeing it coming. Your best friend in the world is the one who was the puppet that was being made dance before you are absolutely understanding you know honestly. I caught on pretty quick. So it's all good to use code or spell daughter used starts crying all right. Well I need to be getting the city under control where is Oh a? He was fully consumed by the wraith. Yeah I think he's maybe being gone for a little bit. I'm sorry I didn't know that you didn't know that you see you. Read the emotion on Louganis's face for a moment just this you know look of shock and hurt but then he quickly kind of just takes a big swallow and just goes right well. Dan would want us to get things under control and to protect the people here. I let my guard down before and I won't do it again. This is not about you letting your guard down this is. This is not about anyone's fall other than those pulling the strings. This is only one person's fault he nods and then he looks disappointed and he goes. I'm sorry Moonshine I wasn't able to finish the spell to lock away the crown the wraiths charm affected us before we could finish it. Tanith in and I will have to get back to work on. Its but we might want to prioritize getting the city in order if you've already taken out the horsemen I don't think the Hellfire crown is an immediate threat. I would focus on and I can help you seal it afterwards. Some okay so you don't think that its existence poses a threat that the Almighty I go grab that Hellfire crown then take her primordial thrown. I think it's unlikely that she would do her dirty work herself. And I think you've handled most of her henchmen. I got PINTA. Greens on speed. Dial so I can always check him regaining prostate. Your degree sketchy going on down there. The trolls were the wraiths. Actually for being knobs and controlling now between Oscars Totally cooked the raft jumped up on the border burger as they're they're they're pretty bad for raves. Maybe manipulate this intervene. Your overall world going to be Botas. Other fan agrees is down there with a buffer trolls. A buffer of angry trolls than I'll check you. Keep checking in with you. Make sure everything's okay but it sounds like you're in good hands or grow under Kurd role I know you're emphasizing the troll who I thought you were emphasizing the first part of the health and also this is over audio so we could not see or hear you winking okay. Okay well be well. Everyone's asking for U. Penn decree strange. That he's our most competent friend. Fun Gertrude twitter starting to. I think it was a good thing. We've picked that field cleaned full. Those days he's You know what you must be hard on us. Yeah but you see Louganis goes all right twelve without her. Dan I'm going to have a lot of work to do you got to go around collect the Mejia's and I'm going to try to get the city under control and try to cover people. Do you need my help is GonNa go around just sort of a hand and now heels like flowers but Do you need my help in any other way. You see me. Ma Walks over and she puts her hand on your shoulder and she goes sweetheart. Why don't you focus on the all at the l? Is going to be here in a couple of days to relax. I'll help your relaxes by helping other people. You want to come around and help heal. Some PEOPLE THA. Why don't we don't know how to be any other? Don't we go ahead and make a little better than some people up? So yeah so moonshine and Me Ma and people luke Head off Lucas joins up with a bunch of other majors and they start repairing various things around the city and meemaw along with the druids. Moonshine start going around and healing people. do a little plant growth to try them find some broken stones together school. There were some trees that got knocked over and everything in the weather while the Arcane bubble was down so you're able to like replant the trees or like pull back up the ones that had fallen over Vinnie nails came loose. I have a hammer so Put some doors back on their injuries. Actually be really helpful. Thank you so much have come a long and hard ones just like painstakingly. Hammering one word. Well I whisper willows back into existence. Spend the evening helping people out around the city but as it gets later go back to the storm born check on bowel nor gradually throughout the night. You guys see your various friends and allies come by to apologize for the actions that they took wall. Charmed you see mob. Aw Jana Grand. Erlin a glain. All come by sea cod comes in and does really poorly tired joke. He runs into the room with his gun drawn and he goes. Where's hardwood at this time off? Is this this dude? Broke my window. Drops the gun and starts sobbing up so fucking sorry does come. Talk Funny Dude. That was hilarious. He starts weeping. Sorry heard one laugh cries. Everyone is laughing and crying. I thought it was like one of those things where it was way too soon for me to make a joke about it but if I was really it would be freaking hilarious. Perfect timing is always come out of our faces. Look like the like theater masks. Just like sad and happy at the same time. Yeah you see like makes that huge thing like Mama was horrified. Almost attacked Gob. She has no sense if you were like that but she like goes up at apologize. It's hard one. I'm sorry my champion. It's all right. No one said anything to me that I don't scream it myself as I'm working out casually pat on the back traps are looking enormous my champion that means that means a lot more than you can More than you could possibly know up in your arms. Yeah you see Jane Patsy on the back and gives you like a firm apology and Wayne is so sincere. Goes Up to you. Bavin she goes. I'm so sorry that I killed your dumb ass turtle how it's okay. Thank you your apology. He was just like this is a lot shitty little turtle chance and just like totally kicked his ass. And I'm so yes Dick. Actually a baby dragon turtle not even really a turtle but thank you so much. It's very big little baby. That was flying at me and I just like shot it down in like a couple of shots twice as tall as I am. I can ride on its back. It's pretty big actually right so I don't know what you're projecting four but I just hugger like to her. That was a super sincere apology console. She just she just thinks that. You guys are really bonding. When wearing clothes I whisper in a year. Ice Eros son of a bitch cool that. I invented a new thing. But I really didn't want to use it against you bud. Hey you know what that's going to be perfect on the angel so I think it was worth it. She nods and pulls UN. It's fun to be on the other side of an apology breakfast. Kinda Huffing Creek water watching all these very funny politics. Go down so as the night passes on you. Guys see that the lights in the city to go back up it looks like Lucas and me Ma and the other elves are getting a handle on it you go out onto the deck and you could see druids and clerics still working. He'll up while Mejia's work to fortify the city. And eventually you guys all get your long rest in for once. Bow Nor is in the bed and you fall asleep in mutable wake up every once in a while to shout at him if he starts going towards the light. I think I sleep light like I sleep lightly. And like anytime he shifts. It's almost like when you have a new like when you have a new baby or something like that. Very cute or spooning in applesauce mice chips. I'm up come come in towards the light okay. I'm touch handing him slapping him across the face. I sleep so long and deep that it seems like I'm debt. The states are dead and so you guys are all going to sleep. Moon shines getting her transcend hard. One is also getting his transcend which isn't deep slumber apps like just bent over completely bent over the back of his chair. Absolutely going to have a destroyed back in the morning just sleeping so deeply so top heavy still holding his hand. I just have absolutely no lower back tomorrow sleeping with her on your lap. Lumbar's absolutely fucked noted. These discs are in the right spot. And you guys see you. Guys are kind of taking shifts checking nor and during beds shift as he's sleeping closest to balance or bev you are suddenly awoken from deep sleep by bow nor grabbing you and you see. He's tossing and turning and talking himself. Bev Beth they have bath you here. There's something weird about his voice at times. He sounds like Balladur but others. He he sounds like your dad. Well this is even more confusing than it already was dead. You see bowel nor suddenly opens his eyes and grabs your hands and goes. It's me you see that even though this is physically bowel nor he does resemble your dad in this moment just the way. He holds his face his mannerisms. It feels very much like your dad like bowel nor is kind of a laid back dude. Ebbs senior is super high strung see Balladur's relaxed features are now all furrowed and strained. As soon as I noticed I stopped slouching. He stops because you're going to hurt your back. You'RE GONNA YOU'RE GONNA have a back like girl pop. If you sleep and chairs like that so I just for tonight dad we gotta make sure the Balance Okay. All right yeah. He had a real rough day. It was not a walking day for him. Yeah well right your your. Stepdad here is sorta hovering between life and death so he was primed to be possessed. Wow that's how I was able to get to you but don't worry we're GONNA make sure gets better. I can actually help them out a little bit while the main here but make yourself at home. It's not bad. Not Bad starts moving a little bit. So did you have something needed to tell me or just kind of like a Sunday afternoon checkup or you know. I wanted to have a nice father son chat but there is some business before your big fight with the Allah first off. I wanted to remind you to hustle out there. Okay yes sir. I don't want you dog in it. You know I hate it when dog it so I I bring it up just because I know you don't like it when I talk about you. Dogging it on the t ball field but you played. We had to stick in the outfield. And then you would just run around. There was a lot of cool flowers out there to catalogue them but we could go flower. Pick it after outfield position and you need to pay attention all right all right. Everyone has a responsibility. You're right data. That's right okay. I did have more practical reason for wanting to reach out to you your palate in Bud. And you're going up against the cleric so the white isn't going to work on her. You're going to be at a little bit of a disadvantage. I've been worried about that but I'm I'm hoping that I can use all my abilities to help my friends and and give them the power they need. Make do with whatever light I've got. I think that's a good way of going about it. But I like you looking out for your teammates like that. That shows good hustle. You're not dogging. Hey you know what if you're not dogging it don't get your hang ups and I don't want to be with the pups right. That's right I want to be out there with the big dogs dad. You know how much I love those t shirts now. That's all well and good. But you're going to have to use your prowess against her and I've learned a few things while I've been on the dark side here. Oh and you know how I feel about curses but if you're going to dabble in Decorah band see I'd rather have you do it under my supervision. Okay yes sir. It's going to be like when I let you have a beer at the beach house. Okay I still remember the taste. Let me see your sword. I hold it up. I gave it to Balladur. You'll the sort up you see as balancer BEV senior. Hold his hands over it and he begins a chance. We find the light and keep warm for. In the dark we are reborn. Our core swarms where others mourn and I cursed. The sword by the storm born hoard. You see that bird slayer Shimer's with a magical narcotic energy and still glowing a white light but there's something nearly imperceptible. That's different about it. It's more of a ghostly white now than a radiant light You see that one side of the hilts still has the green parrot wings but the other side. When you flip it has skeletal wings. Two Sides Oh same coin and Bev you may not do necrotising damage instead of radiant damage when you smile. Data hate to curse. But this is pretty flippin cool. I don't like you drop enough. Bob's blog SI- after all even go as far to say. It's pretty freaking cool. What Dad you around? Hey you know. We're in that we're in the dark here but your dad. What are you going to be doing during the battle? Is there any way that the owner forces can help? I think I've contributed all I'm going to contribute to this fight and I think that's a lot you see. He puts his hand on your shoulder. You guys have grown stronger than heck anybody. I've ever known anyone I've ever fought alongside. I don't even think I could. I couldn't even carry your jock son. I'd never ask you. It's weird and grow. Glad you would because that would be weird maybe weird and Gross Daddy Weird. It grows so glad. I'm sleeping so loud at that part which I you begin to wake up with the fuck. Never make you carry a cup. Dad Looks so glad you're posing for a big hug. All right bud. Well I gotta get going. I know you're going to be proud because you already have. Thanks Dad we wouldn't be here without you. You gave up so much. And I promise you won't be in vain with though shadow recruits in shape talking it all right over here and it goes all right. Love you buddy love you and I kissed Belmore Again. Outdoor and he goes. No I'M GONNA give Balladur a little cleanse on the way out so you might want to go. Hit the bucket snatch him another pair of pants or yeah. Bucket would be good okay. I'll get several buckets. Good Luck Bud. You see suddenly bow nor a wakes with a jolt the BEDPAN get to bed pan which one extra lawrence yes. I two large extra large. Why did they make multiple sizes? Actually think is quite logical in a world where there's Haflinger in humans. Humans is humid size have worked size. You help eleanor. You See. He's in and out of consciousness for the rest of the night. It seems like your dad was able to help them a little bit. This is the third time in our adventure that help someone in the bathroom. You are a holy bathroom attendant. Gladly serving guys wake up the next day and Val nor wakes up with you guys. He's groggy but he's in good spirits. Hey guys didn't do anything embarrassing or anything last night right. No Yeah Nothing. Nothing at all like pushed the bedpans under the bed. Filled up a half work bit but that wasn't embarrassing. That was an there's that always something to strive for brother. Don't worry someday now looks excited to see throughout the day. You guys have friends coming in and out Martha to- golden mankind leave. Come by handy any goes through them. You see that mankind leave has a basket. Were there is no. It's a bad hand hand. She grabs the hand starts like going to throw it out the window. I kindly mainly coming in again. The Kidney Yeah. No that's actually my hand. Yeah you've got to get off. The ship starts to grab new. Push moonshine gently grapple. Now there's a place for her in this war it's one of those things where it's like it starts out as kind of a joke and then both of them start to get a little sweaty dislike forcefully trying to wrestle the other one easy though. I just I'm I'm a temporary only ever equal with over bow surprisingly strong and you have to try like you know twice as hard as maybe you thought you would have hardwood grips hammered. Martha Togo runs over. Gives BABBA BIG KISS IMAM? Oh my God. I'm I'm so glad you're all right honey. I know you're GonNa do so good in your big fights and you're gonNA save the world. We're all dependent on you but I know it's a foregone conclusion Thanks mom now that I know that you're safe and you'll be watching from afar. I think I'll be okay. She gives you a kiss and she gets her back. Yeah I treated like I'm about to go do like a fifth grade play any. She throws her hands up and she goes you know and if it doesn't work out then we'll just go to shadow fell and we'll buy a nice little house that's true. They've skeletons and stuff you know always look on the dark side of the dark side of things. And you guys see Martha Goldin Mannequin Leaf trap off some food for Balladur originals original. Mostly just where. There's originals and sticky buns knows absolutely protein. Everybody feels sick. My back hurts. This is perfect outdoors eating it. He's just like this is one of those things where I'm enjoying myself but I know I'm not going to recover so you guys go and check out the city during the day you see that it seems to be getting back on its feet. The druids have fixed the weather inside the bubble. You can see the sun shining on the city moonshine. You see that as you're off healing people and helping out around the city you see meemaw finds you and she goes. I may long. Hey moonshine so can talk to you for a minute. Yeah I don't remember everything that happened When I was charmed but I do remember. Oh I can walk you through you. Turn into snake. Rat failed your carpet. We had a conversation or you were saying something about the druids timeless body and how you were concerned about the aging process. Oh Yeah I mean I guess I was just wondering like do you 'cause you know as soon as I felt myself getting stronger. I felt that thing I've heard about where some druids get to a level where they don't age just quickly. I just wasn't philosophically. I felt wrong about it. D- do you have it. I don't think gets Do It's it's very rare and not very many kills have had it but can show you something sure and just so everybody knows the timeless body that Moonshine me. Maher talking about right now is mechanically at level. Eighteen druids age one year for every ten years. So talking about right now is a fear of living for thousands of years. So moonshine you see me Ma a takes your hands and brings you over to a large oak tree and you see. She reaches her hand out and casts transport via plants. You see the bark of the tree seems to smooth out to create a shimmering portal and she begins to step through and motions for you to join her. I don't go. I'm just so moonshine. You come out on the other side of the spell and are immediately hit by droplets of rain. You see that you have been transported to a massive branch on the grandma trie this enormous tree that dwarfs the biggest redwood that marks the center of the. Creek. You look out. And you see that the creek has flooded brown waters rage beneath the pounding rain drowning stumps that once housed the creek. Still the grandma tree stamps. Is it strange that say this warms my heart to think that the all tried to come for us and she just made more of our beloved mud. See you see me Ma laughs and she goes. I think I'm getting a contact high and Get some boats float around here. I know meemaw takes a deep breath and she goes so the timeless body. You'RE GONNA age one year for every ten now else can live to be seven or eight hundred years old but some druids can live to be ten times. That and BEV has something similar. He's of the Earth too so y'all could be around for ages. Oh boy yeah but as much as it can feel like a curse. It's a blessing to. We're almost four hundred years old. You know the sad side of it is in that time. I've lost lovers of lost siblings. Parents Children I've had friends who were ORCS. Friends who are goblins who died in their sixties of natural causes. I've had you know Ilves I've known who went off on adventures and never came back like like your half brother Vance. Yeah no he did come back though you see she smiles and she goes. I know yeah I I guess I guess I'm just I'm worried because I walk around town people that that death is a natural part of life and I just think that it is natural part of life. I think that there's I think life without death would make lazy and selfish people enough think that there is a beauty that is gifted to live by the mere existence of death in the same way that. I sometimes wonder if there is a gift to goodness by the fact that there is evil and so here I am walking around saying it's two two sides of the same gone death than life and doesn't it feel sorta hypocritical to then outlive. Aw telling them all be okay with their death and then outlive them all odds and she looks out in the creek and she goes. You know that's a lot of people say that's the difference between humans nails. Elves ills are off living in their magic cities and humans in the short time that they live and up bilden their empires and in a lot of times in their short lives ended up doing more than a lot of ills. But it can be different. How long do half elves live? Talking about hard-won I mean my mind. All WELL HALF. Elves usually can live to be twice as old as humans. Some live to be two hundred as say but I feel look I. I made a decision to go through this change because when I was down there and I met the glittering lady and I promised her our would bring dragons this guy and it seems like a real complicated thing and one that could take a timeless bodies worth the live to figure it out. How but how did it feel the lose Mayor Balan and does lose people? Does it ever get easier? Sometimes I wonder if there's a limit to how much heartbreak a heart can go through and the longer you live your life the more you're going to experience it and I guess if I'm being honest I just don't know what it's GonNa be like to know boom. Yeah without hard one foot and there's a part of me that doesn't want to find out what that feels like doesn't get easier but there are elves that given to the melancholy and become distant. That's why a lot of wizards up in their towers. But I didn't have you until I was three hundred and fifty years old. By that time I had already lost mayor bill and here now I got you now. I got another sister and she puts her arm around you. I have met so many people and forged so many relationships that ain't nobody gonNA replace Vance. Ain't nobody going to replace mayor rebel but trees died new once-proud up and yeah we druids or the gardeners ensure darth gardeners. I guess since you brought it up are disappointed that I haven't made a young and would you be disappointed if I may be never did sweetheart. You've made so many young ins you see. She looks down at like all your like mushrooms and everything you've brought so much laugh enjoy to this world. I would never expect you to live the way that I did okay. That's good timeless. Body is intimidating and I'm not I'm not trying to be. I'M NOT GONNA be on grateful by feeling complicated but I just I don't WanNa be hypocrite and I'm also just There's just some aspects of it that can seem potentially really painful but I know I can get some good work done with it. Maybe I'm in. I'm intimidated by two four hundred years old at some point you and I are going to be almost the same age which is insane. I'll be like seven thousand. Four hundred seven thousand. It's GonNa be Kinda Weird. Wow you know what I'm GonNa go ahead and defeat theologist. Make sure that happens but look it is very rare that a drew achieves the timeless body. But when they do they can do amazing things. I know told you a lot of stories when you were a little girl. But did I ever tell you about my grandma? Your GREAT-GRANDMA NO. I don't know that she did you see. She puts her hands on like the bark of the grandma tree. Just got smiles wistfully and she goes. You know what the Lynnwood was before. Your great grandma came around A paradise that just hadn't found its people now the wood. Oh okay. There was no tree ants. There was no laugh in the forest. She awakened the trees here. It's her life's work and the type of thing that you do in five hundred years. It took her about five thousand and look at them now. Cataclysm should have just about wrapped forest out. She points out moonshine you look at the living would once was out on the edges of the creek and you see that there are no trees. Just overflowing water but you look up in the nearby mountains and see that. They are full of these living trees. Day All stuttered. You see them like now. That's a peaceful that Creek. Resilient get up there. I'm a tree tree tree climbing trees out and the gray. Yeah you see that the living would is literally getting the high ground like going up and getting out of being flooded and she goes. That's what my grandma did. That's what you're great grandma. Did you think it'd be absolutely strange on me though if I invest in my timeless body in something ice Adam nowhere as bringing dragons Baghdad boom? Yeah I just. I don't know why it spoke to me but it did my little girl sticking up for the underdog and making sure they know hospitality. That doesn't seem to know where to me. Well you know they say there's pain in life and there's paying death the only salvage hospitality that's right and you know what doesn't work out it to the first thousand years try something else. Okay and when you're good and ready when you've done what you've wanted to do you can turn to the earth lack. My grandma did we buried her right here you see. She pats grandma tree. She died at the ripe old age of seven thousand three hundred forty three the day after she died a little sapling popped up ten days later it was the biggest God Dang tree out ever seen and through all these storms through chosen occupation. She stood watch over the creek and she'll be here waiting for us when you get back. Okay Yeah I can do this. I guess there is something sour. I'd probably need to swallow though it is. There's people that are once in a timeless body lifetime kind of people right. Oh Yeah Okay and you keep them with you. Okay go ahead and give me a perception Jack. The gun and attack US. Twenty one channel. You hear the sounds of Creek. Bully walks coming from inside. The grandma archery may think that some of the creators have retreated into grandma tree. You guys climbing through the higher up. Entrances you see that there is like this pelt that is blocking the way so that rain can't get in you go in and you know that the grandma tree was this hollowed out big complex with lots of different floors that at one point it housed thousands of sick creek elves during the creek rot. Plague you go in this time and see that while the bottom part of it is flooded. You see that the grandma tree is now housing. Hundreds and thousands of bully works in a storm. You see thousands of these little orange frog people croaking and you also see manner fly. What about Joe? I look for Joe. The mayor within that Saudi is he leading the Bush at a little brain. Man Just goes. Hey Moon. Jae-in did you orchestrate this refugee coney you know what sort of got away from me. They're technically I am the mayor but everybody Kinda just does whatever they want around here but as well the Mayor. Does there just honestly a face to the chaos. That's right about Joe Bad. I am so at peace to see Abadan so beautifully. You see yeah. It looks like the grandma tree is like providing life for the creatures here. You see that there are like vines growing on the inside of the tree that are bearing fruits that like creek bully works or eating at you see like little chipper monks and I do have to though like using my knowledge can I do. I know a fruit that a fruit or vegetable. That has a lot of Vitamin D. Because I know there's a deficiency going on and Yes I need to like create food and water and we're going to need a specialty sunny fruits neither real quick plant growth into the bark of the tree of bunch of Saudi crude. Y'All are looking a little Pale. Y'All are looking like a library. Wow thanks moonshot seventy seven those and allows you to get that item indeed. Get THAT BY. Mundy's important John Shaped like a sunny bottle. They all jump over and start eating. Start eating the fruits and you see Nima look super happy to be up amongst the Nandor flies in the curriculum and everything and you see meemaw goes moonshine. You remember when I used to send you off to catch. Nandor flies when a head to a trance. I spell slot back you mind kitchen a couple manner flash for me while I do a little fan I go full into kid mode and just like without in jars like activates. The most important thing in the world me. I'm GonNa get you every single narrow. Moonshine runs off. Starts Catching Nandor flies? You see a bunch of the Bollywood's start jumping up wrassling with you tried to get to them before you do Joe. The mayor joins in purchase up on your shoulder as guests catch manner flies. We're going to cut back too late home back in glade. Home bound ores in better spirits. He's sitting up in his bed throughout the day. All COBB and a bunch of the green teens come by her hanging out for a while Wayne Dirty Linen. Cran or I'll sitting around you see Derwin busts out his guitar and starts playing Old Jamboree and songs and they pass all ask around you. See dragging you take earth we can form Derwin durling gets super pumped Balladur's like clapping crammed. Looks a little bit embarrassed and it looks mortified. I can't believe you guys fucking remember that Song Durling and I are like spinning around. We're going like elbow to elbow. We've got like a whole routine prepared. It's like it's like you guys are kids again. Yeah Krant Derwin Yeah. They're like forty now because they aged unnaturally because the wild but they get back into that kind of jamboree spirit things like all kids again. Kaluka lagging Kaluka lay. It GETS TO BE SUNSET. You go see the purple and gold lights of the GLADE. Home streetlights pop up in the city outside of the windows like portholes and stuff right as it begins to get dark hard one. Go ahead and give me a perception check who Dirty twenty. Ooh Hard One. You see a crow watching from the sky and then flips off into the city. I drop everything after you. See my sweet boy. My sweet baby bird. As as durling and BEV are dancing around. All the things are kind of hanging out old cob runs after hard one and helps them try to track down. Cock-up awesome hard one. You guys take off into the city and follow the path that you saw the birds. Take you see Kakuma into like deep distance. Just like a little black speck at any time. You lose it. Ole cobs like a pretty good tracker he's able to find it is why we gotta go this call if I could only get to hear my voice. I'm sure he'd come to me. You guys chase it for a good long. While the sun sets you're going to be out of breath you rush over to the other side of the city that overlooks the ocean And you see finally. This crow has perched in a tree. go ahead and give a perception check to see if you recognize. That was a six. But I'm going to use a luck point. Okay beautiful beautiful. Ooh That's an eighteen and eighteen hard on that's `Cau- Oh my God. If I ran with my hammer probably but I lay it down at my feet and I just creeped three steps pause for three seconds. Three steps pause for three seconds. I get as close as I can to you to the tree and then I raised my finger. Hard-won as you raise your finger up towards Cauca. Suddenly you feel someone throw a bag over your head. Go ahead and roll in opposed athletics. Check what the what the fuck is out? No that's a thirty for my athletics. Thirty hard one as soon as you feel this bag start to go overhead you reflexively like grabbing stop it from going over your head and just punch the unknown assailants and you see that you have punched in the nose out man would look you look and you see that it was. Jana and nermin and Jana goes oh of so. Sorry you turn around you see that a bunch of dwarves were hiding popout. The all kind of look around awkwardly. They look up at you and they go soo fries. Bring it in you crazy. Fuck you see. Frost words iron deep dwarves a lot of them that you recognize. King Cobain and King. Magana you see the crew of the storm. Born King McGinnis goes up to. You slaps Ya on the arm and he goes. You didn't think we'd send you off without a drink I did you. It's driven tradition. I knew it I knew you were going to put a bag over my head me in the face and then you'll be beer. That's right you see. They do throw a bag over your head and punch you in the face tradition. I love really no bags over your head. You're king for the day. Boy You see. He takes the Crown Office. Head puts the iron crown on your head. You see a bunch of dwarves come over with like a cask one of them hands you a Mug Poor Ale. Intuit's kid McGinnis holds his mug up and he goes to the door. Everybody yells at out in chorus and guys drink and you sing songs. A bunch of the frost dwarves bring out these drums and a metal instruments that sound like an behrman clearest circle start wrestling each other Ross dwarves against ir deep dwarves Cobb and Kaku join you of course absolutely double fisting. You've got two beers drinking and then we're GONNA cut over to Bev. I'm back on the storm. Born as the night goes on here there with all the half lanes Balladur at this point is sitting up. He's like on the edge of the bed now hanging out with you. Guys you guys are telling stories about being green teens. Jam corinn's such still such a shame. I feel like we said the jamboree in was back on but we never got to have a real Jabareen. You know what I think. That's going to be the first thing we do as soon as the problem has handled. What do you say you know? What next year's Jamboree? We're doing a jamboree next year. That's what count on. Let's all everybody's like a little bit drunk. We promise right now this time. Now we're having to jamborees. I'm next year. I'm hearing my calendar out my calendar to get your calendar out. It's out here yeah. Cran crammed looks at you pulls a knife on you better. We have a chip Reid. How long it's Cran waited. What we're GONNA have a forty. Yes it's been. It's been thirty years since I've been to a God damn jabbering all. It's going to be the best one you've ever had trust me. The calendar is of course a page a day calendar that hard-won drew up Gemma. You see after a bit durling WanNa see December Gemma in just a coat in a fur coat. The Santa Hat. Yeah so much. Imagination for just so tasteful after a bit you see. Derwin gets a sly smile. And he goes. You know what we might be able to have jammed Bahrain but we should pull an old fashioned goof. Oh One last goof. When last goof one last goof? Cran GRANDAD's goof one. That's one less goof. Starts Chanting for the GOOFS OFF? Goes I know where scoutmaster deadliest Dang? There's no harm in playing one. Little goof on a former scoutmaster. I don't think hey you guys you guys were saying that When you guys were kids you guys got kidnapped by like frogs. What if we like? What if we like dressed up as frogs you see like Ballard's like gone back to drinking already? Well Slow Down Buddy. What now by your bandages are pleading. Jane bandages bandages. Are you saying that while? I'm changing his bandages. I go are you saying maybe we should wear some sort of like bully would costume or something. I see a girl nods and he goes brilliant absolutely brilliant. How did we you and your. You didn't go to green team camp now. I mean I grew up with half liens. I think it's in the blood. Goofs are in the blood and the blood blood we praise the light and we keep it life. That is our way that is our way that is our way late. That's the way that's the way I'll come on. Come onto the crafting. Pause it you. Guys go into the crafting closet and you find these scully. Scuba suits yeah and also find the bully walk sleeping bag like sleeping bag you guys to various degrees of success are able to dress up as bullying and you guys prep for your for. Your big prank. Hey Folks Jake. You're wondering if anything has happened recently. That disrupted your daily routine anything at all. I'm sure you can think of something. Well it is a time to create a new routine and it's time to focus on being good to yourself. I know that's what I've been doing and it starts with oral care. We gotta be good to ourselves. And that's why I use quip. Good Health starts with good habits and quip makes it easy by delivering all the oral care essentials. You need to brush and floss better. Equip Electric toothbrush has timed sonic vibrations with thirty second pulses the guide a dentist recommended. Two minute routine. It's like you're like you're brushing your teeth with your dentists by your side tapping on the shoulder. Every time you need to switch quadrants which sounds a little weird but this one's a an electronic version of that so much better the quip head. The toothpaste and the floss refills are automatically delivered on a dentist recommended schedule. Every three months and shipping is free. Look at that. You don't even have to go to the store. You just go to get quick dot com slash paw-paw right now and you will get your first refill for free. That is your first refill. Free APP GET QUIP DOT com slash paw. Gatt Q. U. I. P. Dot Com Slash P. W. P. A. W. I refill is free. Quip the good habits company so meanwhile hard one you've been drinking and hanging out with these dwarves probably been like ten or eleven wrestling matches. It's it's honestly like getting. You aren't getting as drunk as the dorms. Because like you know you you have to fight the tomorrow or the day after like sometime very very soon but these guys like just endless entertainment and they're in the dregs. It's like Nermin is fighting some equivalence frost dwarf that's just like a crewman and they're having a very bad wrestling mat all right. Let's let's call it but and Moonshine if I think at this point. You've you've come back so I come back to you. I see this party going on. I think you can sense where people are at because reports wars and stuff. Then I think I'd get back and be a report for say y'all partying partying pretty hard. I look at urban passed out. Just getting body slammed That I guess I take a Shot Creek water and I say who wants to turn into an animal and I guess eight level animal shapes and anyone can just for the night be whatever animal they want been wanting to try. You see they have really weird requests. I've always wanted to be a doc. You've turned King Mcginnis into a done king a this view I would you see the frost go up? I would also like to be a duck all the doors conduct rates roof reverend's or the ducks are ever on the death. You See McMahon. They started having like duck fights like it just reignites the wrestling rivalries and they all fight again as quick. Hey Peck at each other. Your Bills Grace. I swear to God they think there's so much noble about a Mallard masters of land and sky so after a little bit. So moonshine here. She's casting turning eastwards. Ducks and stuff spell is any animal. You want ducks. Y'All be small duck gas. Well I want to get it. I would like to be a large data. Talk to admit actually medium duck. Does that turn into a duck? I made the choice. Spinal duck after dispels being a duck. Eventually you see Jane pulls you aside hard one while Moonshine is tending to the doors and turning them into ducts and whatnot. Sorry I meant for you. Also try it. We're like headed towards. Dinnie solvents for you yes just like a bunch of drug stupid. Haflinger light dressed up as bully works running across this good. There's just fintech drunk ducks wrestling each other. The people who needed this spell the most this is GonNa work and you can be a duck egg harbor. Uc See Jana a pulls you to the side. And she pulls her in bug out and she cheers. You cheers cheers. That was a real quickie time hilarious. Man She laughs a little bit. Let me see. She takes a SIP and she goes so listen. I've been meaning to ask you normally when I'm attracted to someone. I go through like a six to twelve month long courting process before and formerly declare my feelings but seeing as it is the end of the world. I don't know boy really a time. You're that right anyway. I'm sure you've intrigued by okay. Well Okay Sorry. What were you gonNA say about? There's nothing yeah I was just GonNa Nothing. Yeah I was just Gonna. Yeah all right. Okay Okay No. I was just going to say that I think your friend. Moonshine is cute. Oh thank God thank you see. She like looks at you and puts her finger between like. Did you think I shake my head no into now? I thought you were asking about Belmore Nermin or something good Lord man ever come on you know way I think so look I don't I don't know her very well. It's just you know it's one of those situations where it's like. You know a friend of a friend we think is cute and I kind of hoped I'd find myself in a position to get to know her. I'm wild shaping back and forth between a duck and in and I look over at Moonshine Jana. The only thing you need to know about Moonshine is that she's the coolest fucking world. I think it should i. I'm telling you so. Get it at Janus shakes her head and she goes. I don't know why I think that's hot. It's just I think it's because I grew up. I think it's because I know it would make my dad really mad that makes sense. It's the kind of thing that you never knew. You were her do it. And then it's weight but anyway you know I don't really know her that well and I wanted to check in with you. I is nothing like going on with you guys. Is there me and me and Moonshine? I mean no no nothing. Nothing's nothing's going on there at all you see. She Barrows her eyes and she goes. You answered that kind of defensively. Well I mean nothing's nothing's going on between us you know 'cause she doesn't like me like that oh I'm so. She's single as far as I know she she was engaged a couple of times that. I think she's I think she's untethered. Okay but if if if you have feelings for her then I'll I'll back off because you and you and I were friends. I Hey I got your sister killed so I told you hard one. I tried to explain that was I was under the charm spell. They were manipulating emotions. I didn't I don't actually well. Yeah I know you say the truth because it hurts the most I okay. I don't think that hard won. I appreciate it. I consider you a dear friend and I. I wouldn't want to hurt you so if this is if this is someone you care about. I don't need to pursue. I'll tell you two things one. It doesn't matter how I feel about moonshine. Because she's GonNa do whatever the hell she wants anyway. And that's that's one of the reasons why I fuck in worshiper all right. Don't let me stop you though all right I'll give it a second by the way that girl down there has been looking at you all night and you see She points towards a door of an woman you see. She's got like a cool haircuts. Were her hair is shaved on the one side of her head and then swoops long on the other. She's got long blond hair and a luscious beard. And you see. She's got to hand axes at her side and she looks less regal than like Jana or Jemma like more of a barbarian. She's got like a Tunic. That has made pelts. And you see she kind of looks at you and smiles real quick and then turns away and Jana goes you do whatever you WANNA do. You do whatever you do whatever you WANNA do. Let's everyone do whatever everyone wants to turn into a duck for a little bit. It was fun it was really fun. I see JANA walks off. Leeann egg I guess I take a gander at this This mysterious door of woman you see. She's like hovering on the outside. You see it's pretty clear that she's checking you out but she's like doing self conscious thing where she's kind of like hovering around another crew like trying to kind of like insure way over to you. It's like honestly kind of a hard one move you. You WanNa beer. I have to and I really only wanted one. I just got the second one to to keep up this air. Yes I see. You're double fisting. It that's cool. I love your accent. What's your name my name is. She'll sorry she will she'll she'll I'll call you. Okay Yeah I'll call you sibi man. That's all right. You must be hot. One shifted Yeah that's me this. I I heard you were fighting the yeah yeah. That's the plan when she came into the sky and she made it rain kind of made me want to go into a write. Has Kinda gone very angry right now thinking about it? Yeah well hey you can. You can get angry around me. That's fine do you like it when I get into a bit of a ride. Each I'm a big proponent of just everyone doing what everyone wants to do so yeah I appreciate that because I used to live in a village and make me sleep on rocks. There are a few of us and Cape US and a ride. And we'd we'd get mad and we'd have to attack people but I ran away from their bad a year ago. And I feel out of place here amongst all these are indeed dwarfs and frost wars and whatnot. Well you know I'll tell you what I grew up among these people and I didn't feel very much in place either. I was always looking for acceptance I ran away and I was able to find it and now here I am back with these people who I thought would never accept me and they have so I wouldn't be afraid about about all these folks accepting you think you're part of the family and if I can ask. Did you have a brother? Did you had quite a few brothers. Had some cousins sisters was one of them named. Jv Do you believe that's the one older brother named Jeevan is to actually a cousin. Oh your brother as much as I don't like what he's up to. Now he's a pretty solid dude. Oh it's odd now. I know with twentieth talking about because most of them were putting me on the rocks and whatnot but yes yes yes that one. There was a good one. He is a good one. Felt bad that I left him there. A Dick move on my part. Hey everyone's gotta do it. Everyone's gotTa do and it turned out all right for him. He's using Morton's forge. He's did with bad. I am so sorry I thought you knew. All right devastated. Okay here have my other beers thank you. I don't mind double fist and myself. And if you if you need to go into a rage if you need to get upset I've got a shoulder to cry on. Yes well I think it's pretty cool what you doing Going off and fighting the old et in sometimes before we would go into battle Might have like a bit of smog. I don't know if you do that for I live too snug. Yeah do you like where do you do it and our win it so I'm alright just Dubai unlike a trees savage? I'M GONNA go just get another Bruschi and I'll meet you behind the tree. In t minus five and hard does a weird moon walkaway. God You gotTa Help me. You GotTa help me with then. Hey Yeah okay. You're duck gang honestly I'd probably have to do a little trance because I already cast a spell okay. Well that's tempting another things happening and you see that the door over there. Oh Yeah Yeah. She's cute yeah pretty great beard beard. Great she asked me if I wanted to snug and I think I know what that is. Yeah that's like When you're dungs okay that's awesome. That's what I thought. Yeah can you cast something on me? That like makes me like know how to do that. Kim Oh that is so funny. Okay give me one second. I can work with. This would buy to cast both foresight and enhance ability for your charisma. God You have advantage on all roles and I think you're charisma's boosted the fucking best. Yeah Yeah I'm trying to think I don't think I have anything that can place members in your head that weren't there. No offense gets out of the bag. I guess on that one but I really think you're going to go in there with more beginner's luck that anyone has ever had. I fucking appreciate it and if if all goes to shit I'm going to run out from back there and you're going to have to cast me into a duck okay. Yeah Yeah Absolutely. Go get him. Duck waddles behind. The tree goes walks off. You see as you will sees you walking back. Wow a bit hotter than you were before. I just liked her personality. But now that's that's what two years will do to me. Might be moonwalk there. So you see hardware. Goes off the street with civile. If ahead eight hours I could cast awake on you just or sexual intelligence. Awakening Hardwood goes behind the tree. As we cut to black moonshine you see that. Jana bronze beard is like weirdly. Like hovering near you looking like super red-faced. You Hello Okay Abou- back. I do not know the delicate ways of the dwarf and folk due to a certain extent. But I don't entirely know what bows mean to. You WanNa get turned into duck again. I know I was actually wondering if you might accompany me on a walk. He Miami Sharia absolutely you see. She holds her arm out very proper. Okay actually I hold my arm out you guys. Both very masculine. Leaving arms both dominant. Yeah okay I'm used to as well. No that's that's that's okay see. Jana walks you out into glade home under the glow the Arcane streetlights you walk towards the castle and you guys go across the water garden. Moonlight reflecting on the water and Jane is like Super Super Nervous at first. But she begins to like Ask You more questions about like the creek and stuff to try to get to know you better. I've I've heard your manner flies quite fearsome. I'd like to wrestle one someday. I mean yeah you know what our wild shape and tune and fly. We can wrestle by God so up on extent. I rage your age. Twenty nine Moonshine as as Gina goes to like tackle you you take one arm and like shove it up her armpit and a judo throw her down and you land on top of her and you on wild shape and the two of you are just super close to each other and Gina's just breathing heavy. It's been a long time since this has happened. I I'll be straightforward with you that I got some spells I had a cast later and some not time visits. I gotTa make but a couple of hours before then see she pulls you any kiss as you guys kiss and embrace under the Moonlight Water Guard in and Hardwood and Shiva are over by some. We cut over to beverly and the other half. Ling's you guys creep through the city and your bully works suits bowel nor keeps laughing freaking hilarious. Shut up shut up. Shut up be serious stealing kids and eating bugs where a bunch of bully was still and kids and yet bug. We're a bunch of bully works. You guys see the city until you find any house you see. It's this gorgeous little manner. He must have a major to make it for him. Because it has popped up very quickly such misappropriation. It's just gorgeous little manor near the university. It almost looks like an above ground. Hobbit hole cute and quaint with rounded doors and windows. It's near the edge of center city where the ground drops out beneath the bridge to the university. So He's got a beautiful view of the ocean and the college and a gain looks around. She goes it's GONNA in. He's obviously sleeping. This is perfect. Derwin looks around and he goes all right. So are we all going in at one stores? One person can unlock the door. How do we want to do this? Let's in to people in to unlock the door. You might have some sort of Ghulam guarding him. He's a real coward. It's been a while but you have to remember. He's an extreme coward. You see a G- Wayne Him looks over at you. And she goes all right. We'll do it no offense but the rest of you guys are old as hell. Kranodar look super offended. I use I used to be younger than you vice. You guys go to sneak into. Denny's manner you guys go over to one side of the house. Check the windows. You see that they are locked. Check the other side Those windows are locked as well. But you guys go up to the roof and you see that there is a chimney that is big enough for half links to fit through certainly Jojo R I P P P P you and Aguayo begin working your way down the chimney. Granting him his stealth check Bev. No can I do with advantage because I'm with a gain. Yeah that one. That's an eight. I love Google. Can we say that through handy? Andy with that. Okay you see a grain is ahead of you just completely silent. She hands on both sides of the chimney slides. All the way down to the bottom looks up at you gives you a thumbs up and goes into the House. I gave her two thumbs up. And my I slide. All the way you give her thumbs up lean forward Super top-heavy Arbor and everything under it and then you free fall from the top of the chimney to the bottom You take real quick eight damage as you does every scoop ending the fall of your nothing. You just super super loud noise as like all of the dust and ash that was in Denny's fireplace explodes out. You See a light goes on in the bedroom. Ag- Wayne is in the middle of the room. Danny pops up up just sees to shadows in the living room goes and jumps out the window but his window like goes over the edge of the city you see scoutmaster. Denny starts to fly out like the chasm of the city. Oh my God he's GonNa talk died. No no I missed you. Step out the window after Ben Misty. Step out the window. Thirty feet of movement you see. You're able to fly further than deadliest. Folic scoutmaster Danny falls into your arms. You guys are both plummeting out of the Sky Fall League right now. So I've got him in my arms. Yeah I guess Feather Fall Sweet Potato. You guessed feather fall. Scoutmaster Danny is fighting. You the whole time I'm going to commit to the bit. You feel so much. Piss running down his leg. Oh Gosh that's way for Whisper. In beverly voice it's GonNa be fine move. I guess I tried to angle myself towards the cliff so I can climb back up. You fall like thousands of feet with terrified scoutmaster Danny guys like land in like ravaging waters back to save his life. It's a painstaking thing and you see that As you are dragging Danny out of the water like onto the rocks of the shore the he collapses on the shore and goes all right. If you're GONNA kill me you know what I do. I give the agreed upon signal which is of course a bollywood maiden call for all the other teams to get down here. You do a mating call. Everyone is just so far away and things here dead so you are at the shore deep under glade home out like rocks everywhere you start making a bully walk mating call and then he just gets up and just running into like wilder many denny. I took off the mask. It's me me we got. You already have your Uber. Patch well long story but if you have another in on yeah that'd be great almost killed me going into battle against the all over the humor patch of explain what. I'm proud of you. You're advanced humor patch. You can't be in charge of giving those out despite everything despite our history. I'm so happy to see Danny walks over. And he just has this patch on him up. Gave for somebody to me and my sleep. The Advanced Huber Patch walks over and pins the advanced humor patch. It's an honor. Please be a better person from now on Ben as you are here with Denny Go ahead and give me a perception. Check these rules out now. That's the three three bath. You See. Suddenly three wolves shop out of the nearby wilderness and just jump onto denny just job. I felt like biting at him. And you see a Luna in Werewolf form jumps up next to you grabs your shoulder and goes to war since you you were in trouble. I sense sneaking up on somebody up here. We're here talking about focus. Focus just like Jerry Watercolor. Boys globeop boys going. Hey it's okay it's okay cool. He's cool well. He's not cool but he's a an acquaintance right. You see Luna polls the wolves back He. He's just been like all bitten up and messed up. His days are all torn up. And he's soaking wet well by lived to the hospital. You thought that that was the prank before but That was actually your Uber. Patch passes out in the rain Luna Goes Book. Sorry I didn't realize that was your friend. I can kind of like sense. How you guys are feeling like Alec. My my friends are feeling and stuff and I didn't want to go near those guys because they're up to something else when you what are they doing. What are they up to the endanger? How old are you sixteen? Th they're hanging out you. I sensed some anticipation in danger and then just like a huge adrenaline spike. So came right away. Assumed this was your enemy. We got him. We mission accomplished last week. We got him yeah. No this was just a goof. Gone wrong one in a long series. I'd say wow all right well. Anyway I found where the all is headed tomorrow. Hang ON ONE SEC. I touch hands. Danny Utans Danny Alive but I wish I wasn't hospital. So what did you learn? Yes we found where the gods is. We think I wouldn't have been able to find it without the Allah collapsing. The Iron Mountain. So it seems like. She cleared a path for herself. We found a collapsed entrance to some catacombs. We poked around in there and we found gate. There's a message in some ancient language. I couldn't read it and I couldn't get in but I just felt in my bones that that was the place all right. We need to tell my friends immediately. We should probably go them right now. Yeah whatever we went to them in like ten minutes for Moonshine and we could go to hard one if you want okay right. Yeah Moonshine you know. I saw her with her mom. She's probably on a big heart to heart to heart totally right case. Can they still fly? yeah you see she pulls out some flying potions and she handed to you she goes can help them back if you want. I'd much prefer that Savior. Potions my friend. She Grabs a potion for herself. Takes you on her back. You see the other wolves. Like what are the other wolves dislike? Looks up at Luna and goes I will take this little two legs and just grabs it just grabs denny like callously like on the back of the neck as if he's a kitten. I don't have a lot of skin there fact. They're just this just hurts for me. You with Luna Fly back up with the wolves and Denny you guys. I'll say I you dropped any off at his house. Suddenly come down with a bunch of wolves and in extremely fucked up denny collapses in front of his home. And you see Derwin. And cran and acquaint ballard like what happened. Man He is. He alive barely managed to feather. Fallen. It's okay I guess on the positive side. He was pretty Dang spooked. You see Cran nods and goes all written successful goof. We did a successful remember this time next year. We're having a jamboree this time next year. I actually take the advanced humor patch and divide it between all along. You See Dir. Living Craner extremely touched by this so childish patch. It doesn't go with my shirt at all and yet I wanted desperately. You may have it so that you may give it to your children one day when they pull a really weird bad goof see they laugh and those guys will all take Danny back into the House Pathumanee and Lugos if you guys got a map or something I can mark off the spot because I'm not going to be much helped you once you're inside you guys are beyond what me and my packer capable of here. Gotcha AGAIN HARD. Ones are map guy. We should get to him right away. I think just like expedite the process. You know all right. Let's get hard one right away. HARD-WON GO AHEAD AND ROLL UP. Your Luck Jack. They get key roles. He has foresight. He was everything with advantage. Thank you that is a sixteen sixteen all right hard one you an Chivasso are basking in the afterglow laying Moonlights under. She's got like a pack. That has like Piltz in you. Guys are like laying out at a pallet and would you like a little smoke take a long drag and I say and the other thing about ducks. Yes you guys all ducks quite a hard one. Has Your ear with Schill in this blanket. Like behind this tree. You suddenly see a bunch of wolves and beverly heading directly towards used sprinting. I'd be lying if I said I didn't picture it happening. Kind of if you want to join your friends. Maybe I'll maybe the world won't end all last again. That sounds that sounds pretty solid to me all right. Hey for me I will all right. Thanks for the dog. I know how to close the loop on these days a little more than a snug gives you a hard web. Hey you're literally literally just in time just in case any second earlier and it would have been weird well thank goodness content by the way is that one of the more than kinds. Did a wizard with that up for you. I kicked the tent over. So beverly doesn't see anything under the now. I sorry I thought you had left task intent. Amazing stuck under these pelts. Now tell me a minute to clear these apologize Hell Bev look at that new. A new shred of patch. Let's talk about that notice. A man I you know what? There's no time I wanNA tell you all about it. It's probably the most Primo Goof I've ever pulled. But we've got bigger fish to FRY holy fish that is and I gestured to Luna Luna Luna relays all the stuff that she told to Bev. Takes your map off of you and is able to mark where the Court of God's is in relation to the Iron Mountains and hard one. You know this area well enough to know that this is not where any minds are. This is not In any kind of like civilized territory. So this is this is something new okay and you guys rush off to find moonshine. Oh Real Quick. Just some housekeeping. Can we say that what everything I did to Jana was damn near religious counts as Trans? Ha I would say. Yeah you see Jana rolls to the side of you. It goes well. Yeah absolutely should we. Yes we should rejoin party and whatnot. Right well yeah. It was a pleasure. It seems easy. She brushes. Yes well if you want to hang out do that again anytime you let me know I will do that. Yeah is good to me you jar. I'm used to doing this when people are just runs away so cool. Hard on and the wolves up through ESI JANA sprinting. The other direction look really pleased right. The hard part is goodbye so you were at duck. Who was a lot of things you guys rejoin and you guys are all together moonshine. Hey Hey hey Dan. You're glowing literally. I not as not as much as she as if you know what? I mean. How Old Wolves Start Howling. Bev laughs along. We'VE GOT A. We've got a map we got for you to Peop- real okay. Yeah I mean Peop- that map you look at the map? Yeah you guys now know where the court of the Gods are. You guys know timeline. Wise that the Allah should be heading there tomorrow night tomorrow night. You say tomorrow the fortieth night interesting. All right y'all I guess I may start making preparations for for the to get serious. I mean how are we doing? This is rick and crazy to be on the precipice of either success or failure. Yeah sorry to put it like that. Oh No it just feels weird. We've had thirty nine days of waiting for this day to come and now here. It is how y'all feelin actually feel a lot better. After after I got the cleanse do you need any kind of greater restorations? Or anything like that balance. That might be helpful. Yeah I'm still feeling a little under the weather. But if you got anything for me bring it in. Ballard goes over takes a knee. I Kassim Grade Restoration greater restoration. You see that Ballard was looking a little bit like sweaty and like sallow skinned. Now looks a little bit more robust all right back in it. It's not a walk in day anymore. Rebecca unit with the baby back instantly start going nuts. I don't know where y'all figure yourself for the evening but am I've been Nice Role Tom. Sake to top it off one big bed other way. You lead the way moonshine. Okay you see that as you guys go off. Lagos all right then. I don't think there's much else I can do to help you. Guys but best of luck kick the his ask we. Will I bark at her? You Know My dad says that you're not supposed to dog it but the way you do it. I'd rather be doing nothing else. Oh see the wolves are all start going crazy nearby. Guards look super freaked out. Not sure what they're supposed to do. Luna salutes you guys and she heads off and you see all of these Dwarves that are now ducks that are partying a bunch of the dwarves run up and just like Oh man wolves. Let's drink with wolves a school. You see the wolf's just instantly joined the party should let them know the timeline so that they're not literally sitting ducks tomorrow actually. Yeah they technically could be. Does last twenty four hours if they want that requires concentration. Which I'll be honest. I already dropped my concentration back in the woods. You see there are better just regular doors. That are pecking at each other with their faces. Everyone is too drunk to know the duck. Nurbin yes I am. Skippy duck recounts duck. Shall we make camp had to bed? Yeah what are y'all thinking one. Big Bed on the storm born or one big bed in one of our fancy Morton Kaden's magnificent mansion or one big bed in the dorm room Carl's they are boat big bed under the stars race. Yeah I was hoping you'd say that You guys go over. You find a spot near the storm born you guys camp for the nights under the stars okay in so I'm GonNa Sleep for four hours like I'm just GonNa let cuddle up with everyone but then in the middle of the night. I guess I can only cast one of these in the middle of the night going to wake up and just Kinda Russell hard one a little bit. Yeah Hey I just finished my turn. It's not I think you're still in the middle of it I do. Do you make a beautiful transfer. Though and then I'm going to cast and typically on him so that the spell attracts or repels creatures of your choice so angels are going to be repelled from hard one okay. Wow Yeah so I- bird spray so I think I just say take care yourself okay you very precious to me falls back asleep. Aggie MOLUCCAS on chicken and egg. Just I guess I go back to bed because other one is only eight hours. Think one last sleep together. Yeah before the world changes forever. I guess that can also before my trans. I'll make the heroes feast and some good. Mary's and then I get much transcends so much on you go into your trance. You make your heroes fees. Do you have it ready for everybody in the morning? Guys wake up in the sunrises. Oh Wow oh my gosh. So many berries. This is a lot of very grab the good berries. Remember to save him goodbye. Char only data that. Oh my God I was making. I was making good berry juice again. No not our us to hear us. Feast smooth could be pretty good actually thing. We finally earned this one so yeah get to it I guess if you will let me I would like to casten spell then do my zealots trance to outcasts in nine th level spell then wow zones transnistria yeah great. Okay then I'm GONNA say put a little boone on hard one. But I don't want you to think I forgot about you so I'm going to cast foresight on Bev. Bev You have the ability to see into the immediate future for the duration. You can't be surprised. You have advantage on tax ability checks and saving throws and other creatures have advantage on attack rolls against you see the world laid out mathematically so many goofs so many possibilities goofs so little time use it for good not goofs if you know what. I just this wise. So ideally ideally. Bev will be having all these advantage on on attacks and the angels will be afraid of heart. One moonshine how would you feel about a boon swap swap? Yeah I lay hands on moonshine. Anti Caste death ward. Ooh ooh that's great it in. Righty guys all hug and bowel narcos gang. If that was the last one big bed it was a good one. Yeah Amen and hey because we can never say enough. Thank you for this breakfast. Yeah I mean I did make it at. I did make it for hours ago so it has gone cold. I went to do the dishes and they were already done a little nervous. So yeah I stayed up but I did the dishes and you see that. Jana is very formal. She's left you like a thank you card. Oh dear if we're all getting ready there's maybe a couple more things I'd like to do just to make sure that we have the best odds we we can. Is this. Your stand-up backed away a note card. I have in my hand. No what's what's the deal with your dad. Never tell your dog in it. And you're like dad but I love dogs. I hate it. I would like to cast the ceremony spell. Which is as Anthony Guide spell. It's a first level thing where everybody can get a d. four to all their saving throws for the next twenty four hours. It's called dedication touch a humanoid who wishes to be dedicated to your Gods Service for the next twenty four hours at a d four to all saving throws so in Louisville. God I imagine it would just be the service of Bohemia itself. Yeah Yeah and I know this maybe a little outside of my comfort zone but I think for just this once I wanted to so bay my mom and I pull out hard one stick and poke. Tattoo kid leash it through my cabinet. We do in tain status. We gotTA DO Titan Tatsuo tight. What does it? What do you guys think is out of? Titan tat. I was thinking maybe just a little pillow. Oh symbolize one big bed. Just point to Papa Papa. He got a little lost in all the party in big night last night here. He fought a duck and he won. He's wearing a metal. That's impressive. Wow yeah the dwarfs are really took to pop last night extremely hung over and try to pretend that's not baby. Let it run your the artists of the group. Can you give us all a little pop tattoos? I Dunno can I raise my arrays my shorts and I show everyone quad where I already have a papa. It's so in fact. Well by the way could someone cast wounds on this. I like patterns if I'm admiring that Tattoo and cast touch hands. Wow look at that would really cleared up resilient. What can I say? Draw draw tattoos on everybody. Everybody Popova. He doesn't need one still watch one game one ran the ball bash. Where do you where do you want just like gestures body is telling me? He's got a big fat deal the way that's if it's on his tummy than if he grows then it will still be to scale. That's perfect if he gains weight so we'll his tattoo you had mode. All of them are one. Yeah I sure. Can you guys all get Papa Tattoos and pop no matter what happens guys? Let's always work to keep being friends and keep everything we love safe. Okay Yeah I think we're GonNA absolutely fucking destroy the all his fucking face all right gang. I guess I mean I know that a lot of heroes might WANNA leave with a big parade of people. But I'm thinking maybe we just kind of sneak out you suddenly hear Horn Man City people of glade by daughter Moonshine Cyberman Queen of the elves. He lording the band of boobs. Aka. The Titans of our heroes are off to face the god Fiala and keep this planet safe. And you hear cheers going up throughout the city as the various citizens of glade home and the super hung over dwarves come around you see they seem to have procured ducks like got drunk during the night. Went and like grab some ducks out of the water. You see dwarfs coming by elves and a Ladron and your friends like Lucas. Me Ma Ma Ma. Jana J. J. is there. I think I'm gonNA maybe like do a little Maybe do the Tuck the hair behind the ear and a little sprouts. Oh my God. She Shivers Oh no I liked that now. I do want to try that on chivalry we can I? Can I use my spores to like from a distance? Make IT HAPPEN REPORT. Spores thank you. I put a little bit of sheet in my hair. Feels like being at home? You should be honored. Can I do perception check to see if I clock? Yeah Things Yeah Bear Viga. Do INSEE Jack. That's an eighteen eighteen. Bev these guys were hooking up last night. My head is on a swivel between both them. And I'm just like no just run over a jump into hard one. We'll keep you cool. Pats moonshine on the shoulder. We were running around hanging out with scoutmaster Daniel. Hey One. How did little enchantment work for you? Last night I would have had to be a duck without it so so. Yeah you guys see She says goodbye hard one I use. It'll be good to see again. Yes yes indeed. The as long as we don't die he's all right. Don't die because I'll go into a rage and okay. I stay angry all right angry. I'll come back. I'll be here steaming up. Give me waiting for you when you're angry. Yeah I'm Bev. Your mom gives you a kiss and says goodbye a and all your other friends Cobb goes over. Gives you guys all hug a proud of you guys? You guys have kept lead so far right. Don't disappoint now. The ever could Predator handshake him Cobb Predator handshakes you and Bev. You see that a goes up to you and gives you a hug and she goes. If you can get Irwin back. That would obviously make me very happy. But I want you to come back to and I know that Irwin wouldn't want you to sacrifice yourself or to put yourself in danger so you come back to okay you frigging idiot. I promise I'll do everything I can you? Gigantic third brings you in for a hug. A dead arm like everyone right back all the fuck you guys see me Ma and Lucas and everyone lucon meemaw run over the both Gush over moonshine. He's so proud baby. I'll and you know what I think you see opening up to everyone right. Isn't it means so much she yeah. I'm queen of the ELVES. Cr CR indeed all the all the other els yell out accelerate your strange people and cheers cheers. Go up around the city and your friends and family bid you farewell you all get onto the storm borne head out from the safe barrier of the city and then guys soon as we get on. We're like have all these like plastered smiles on from like like leaving from like saying like. Oh it's going to be good. Thank you so much. Thank you so much I think as soon we get on as we get on a turn to them and I absolutely drop my smile and a look of Sheer. Terror comes across my face. And that's where we'll end our session. Beautiful Babies Wow. Wow we gradually all you fucked and dnd guys done did it. The HE JANA. I know that I know what happened. Just went down Jana for awhile by God. Okay got the check. Got Nothing in return to give and just because I know there will be threads about. Its chivalry mentioned a smog. Which is just making out but whatever happened that you all wanted to happen. She was into hard. If you guys hooked up you guys hooked up. Yeah I'll never tell tell Jane. Ecstasy SWEET GUYS. Thank you so much for listening to our penultimate episode crazy. That's going to be lasting long rest that the band of boobs have show. How crazy is that? Oh Boy Okay. Gang well next week as we said at the announcement at the beginning of the show We'RE NOT GONNA have regular episode on Thursday we're going to be streaming it on Saturday Posting another official announcements so be on the lookout for that. It'd be prepared to watch it Saturday night. We're thinking five. Pm Pacific Time Eight PM Eastern. That worked for us. I think that's what we're GONNA do. Great Yeah I'll be around. Yeah we're GONNA do that probably make it cool. Does anybody have anything else to plug our? We have a whole bunch of new shirts and stuff in the guy got a bunch of new shirts and stuff in the store. A Marriage Scher ascribe Robert SCRUBBER THE PAPA plot armor shirt on a good stuff and it's all fresh. It's all up there right now. A rabbit it. I think it's shop dot net dot com. Yeah CORRECT CHECK IT OUT GUYS. Cool and then Follow us on twitter at teach me at called US Caldwell Addy Extras. Emily Achy her. Which is Jake and you can tweet about the show using HASHTAG NAD by any DP od. Don't and now. It is time to thank our Benevolent Council of Elders. We've got Brad D Dylan be Danny peace deal. Breaker and Samuel be bubbles the bone cats brothers and sisters not one of this critter litter was able to live a second life as a skeleton but Jay Lomas actually did come back as Hairball for a little bit. So that was good beard man. Dan Adam are Danielle. The Dastardly Dame Allahu card and the UN dead Incinerator Creek balloons who've been crossbreeding with manner flies in the grandma tree honestly. Their offspring is going to have enormous terrifying yet. Perfect Teeth Halder froth-pak Jordan Dj. Jeffrey S Cutter W and Andrew M PENDER. Greens new troll friends. Now that they're not filled with bloodlust. They are actually pretty. Rad So rad that there are actually thinking about starting band even though they all play drums. But that's going to be fine Schubert. The Mushroom Elena. See Michael McDermott. The head mixologist. Victor T. Balladur dollars boy and Michael. See a bunch of frost doors who are still ducks but are way too happy about it. Because they're just living that Mallard life and they're not going back. Okay Justin I. Jacob See Elena M Dana G. and Paul g the team of scribes that Jonah has enlisted to copy in-incredibly verbose love letter to Moonshine that she has not stopped dictating not even take a breath and Dana G. is seriously considering sabotaging the endeavor. Susannah can just save a little face there. I recommend that Daimiel are destined. See jibed G David. Aaron Sully Luna's wolfback fierce loyal loves to party. Also David t fully took off one of Denny's fingers and it is stuck in their molar. Sergio Salazar Solomon says any Michael L. trailer the Cray fe jewelry s and Matt M. Korans Team. Who helped him make over the cabinet of the storm born they all hung? Hard ones most tasteful pieces and ultimately had to burn some of the really fucking deviant months Adam H Ryan Angel. Be Kelvin Noodles and Chris are a group of ducks that were super confused by the door of index crowding their pond. You gotta you gotTa Snappier Bill on those guys. Richard X Mocking Osama Bin L. Troy Mixie drew nasty. Nick W some manner flies that survived the apocalypse and the Graham a tree and have been procreating at a rate. That would make moonshine route. Josh S Nicholas Austin see Kristen P and axel a PR team. Who walked her through the apology to Bevan watched in awe as she ignored all of the advice they gave Mike Eight. Matthew e Catherine as shadow and Stephanie coup. The late home drugstore where Gina bought her post hookup. Thank you card Turns out late home has a whole section devoted to post hookup. Stationary very cool. I gotta go shopping. There's only if only I knew how to read t j m the number Berry entrust the traveler Robert F hunter L. R. Frankie Crandon d'orleans rugby team. That is right. You didn't know they play rugby but the new Zillow Dolo. Nick be burly T- Panama James. I am the atlas the manufacturers of the advanced humored patch it is a great honour woven silk and gold and the only make one year. They were absolutely horrified when beverage and four you have to return them but Colton B. J. C. C. Lulu eight and R H Dave Age Luna's flying where wolf pack who deaf all have matching shirts. That say when dogs fly timmy. R. J. Dragon Born Zach. See Joseph and grace the tag champions of the Dwarf in Duck Wrestling Federation. These mallards absolutely packed the competition. Lucas be Jordan L. Tally X. Matteo see and Casimir the all knowing a bunch of Craven Pebble Potts. Who were visiting. Anyone Bev attempted is goop within thirty seconds of Denny jumping out the window. They declared him dead. Stole all of his belongings and ran. They can't help it. It is in their blood. They're not to blame Kaley. Elise Barnes and later Christian a yen's Christian tea and Luke h the only other green teens besides Bev who earned the advanced humor patch. They got it by kidnapping their scoutmaster and throwing them into volcano as a goof. Devon W Chen would be jared e percents. Any and Eric Mukti a nice family that was having a picnic well hard-won and Shiva did their business behind a nearby tree. Hard one has been reported to the police and is currently wanted for indecent exposure. Very nice reese and as big bad John and Eric and Andrea Be Jonathan. Oh and Austin M are a crew of dwarves who against all odds retained their duck forum. After the animal shape spelt ended. They will spend the rest of their days. Waddling quacking the dream of every dwarf in Iron Beep. Stephen C Maxwell See Mike K. Anri 'em and Kalem l. The Creek Bollywood's who may who run mayor. Joe's reelection campaign creek elections are decided by wrestling. So they pretty much just go round kicking everyone's ass. Scott Di Micco g Dan the red rain and Sir Slim. The Kharkov impersonators. That were hired by Jane for Hard Ones Party. You didn't think that was actually CAU- did you? Nope just five extremely convincing crow body. Double what the fuck. That's not true. Richard See. Karen t curtis as Nathaniel P. N. Nikki W caucus friends on his travel call com made many pals each one more generous than the last offering food and shelter but no one could offer Kaku. What does unyielding love and attention as really nice even write that one thing someone else did it like Mur- that one that's cool. That was really nice. An Essay Andrew. Be Chris Christopher be Nicholas P Kevin M Rahul n the only other Greenpeace do have their advanced humor patch. They got it when they push their scoutmaster into a troubled ocean from an airship. Epoch goof wow very similar I didn't steal it Meribel the kitty morphing GNOME. Joe MC G Meta AMPs. Adequacy and. Amy W the only iron doors who kicked Norman's ass and his wrestling matches also the only people. Norman fought in his wrestling matches. Eric G Michelle Gauge 'em number. One Beverly Fan Gen. Our and fell donnas manner flies in the grandma trie who are gathering OPPA research on mayor. Joe Turns out. Joe Has some skeletons in his jar. Folks Brittany B. Eric F redneck rough Christian as Jack L. Jonathan's personal trainers. You might be surprised. But Tana than doesn't spend all his time studying in fact he is training the legs the core so he can be the one to do the scooping. Got a lift with your legs kids. Why Grech thirty two Michael K and tingle the Bard? Spam Ben a New York witnesses who saw the judge Wayne fight and so unfortunately for bevy Wayne really didn't exaggerate. That much about judge us asked coating a spurs guy. Sixty nine Keith. K Emilio de Gareth. The Okay and temporal. Shipman's clan very upset barbarians. Quite mad they're in a rage. You stay active Awale. Uk detect use. He's thank spikes. That was a hit gum podcast.
A Darker Shade of Blue: The Murder of Lorraine Hendricks
"True. Crime brewery contains disturbing content related to real life crimes. Medical information is opinion based on facts of a crime and should not be interpreted as medical advice or treatment. Listener discretion is advised. Welcome to true crime brewery. I'm Jill, and I'm dick a Florida woman. So the state patrol cars lights flashing behind her in. She wondered why she was being stopped. She didn't think she was speeding. She later told investigators, but she pulled her car onto the southbound shoulder of interstate ninety five and she waited is trooper Tim Harris approached her car trooper Harris asked her to get out of her car. Then he saw that she was obviously pregnant he gave her a warning ticket for driving six miles over the speed limit. And he let her go police would later speculate that the woman's pregnancy saved her life. The next woman pulled over by trooper Harris would not live to see another day Lorraine Hendrix, car was found abandoned on the highway and detective suspected that someone. She trusted was involved in her disappearance trooper Harris was seen as trustworthy yet. Actually been with the Florida highway patrol for eight years before that he'd also worked for local police departments and he'd earned several commendations. He was a married man with two young children. But a closer look would expose a very troubled, man. Join us today for a darker, shade of blue the terrifying story of a man who was called upon to serve and protect but turned into a very dangerous predator. So today's beer is a beer from Tampa. We've been to this brewery 'cause we visit Tampa frequently to visit our daughter this one is from angry cheer brewing. Both barrel aged imperial German cupcakes. Stout. Got all that sounds good. It is you would Qualis a dessert beer, like German chocolate cake is that pretty much Yemi. So it's jet black dark Brown head that disappears. Pretty quickly. Just lease a little ring around the edge wonderful, Roman taste cocoa. Coconut. The Noah bourbon little bit of some roast coffee type stuff translates nicely into the taste. It's pretty sweet as a thick chewy beer chilly. I love it. Let's open it up. We will. And we're gonna share. There's a whole crowd here tonight. They all wanna try some of the stout. All right. Well, we lucky that we found a spot at the quiet end because it is a busy night beautiful day today and people are out people were out in around today for sure absolutely nice day. But I think we can earn our spot by sharing some of this delicious beer. I know he can the love it. Okay. So why don't you? Go ahead and start our story today, which is really terrifying. It's changed the way that I behave when I drive actually a bit it. Sure is terrifying story. It's terrible. So Fred and Pat western Dorf moved from upstate New York to Florida in the nineteen fifties. They were a young couple and they had a baby boy named Martin nor the next several years they had three daughters. Cathy, Susan and Sandra Lynn Fred worked for the Vero beach press journal. He in pet supplemented their income with a paper delivery, route stocking newspaper machines in the early morning. Pat was the energetic and outgoing when in the. Marriage and their youngest Sandra Lynn family called her sandy she's a lot like her mother the west indoors worked hard to raise support. They're for children. They lived in the house that Fred's dad had owned a small house, but it was unin big latte full of trees in gardens when the three girls got older and needed more space. Fred Bilton place at the family called the dormitory out in back of the main house, and these girls were all very pretty two of them, married policeman. Susan in sandy their brother Martin moved back to New York but the west endorse daughters, all stay close to home, Kathy. And her husband raised kids in exotic birds in pets Susan worked at a Bank and Kathy and sandy eventually worked for the same real estate and investment firm. Every Thursday pet ner three girls met for lunch. Susan Mary done Dapitan who became a Cup when he was just twenty years old. He was a stocky muscular guy, very friendly in confident any may. -tective at the very young age of twenty three sandy met her Cup when she was still in high school, sandy was only sixteen and Tim Harris was twenty one Tim was already a police officer. In Sebastian Florida, the tiny town where sandy lived sandy was accompanying girlfriend who was seeing Tim's partner on the force. So sandy ended up sitting in talking with Tim for couple of hours. The next time. She saw Tim Harris was on Sunday January fourteenth of nineteen seventy nine a little after eleven pm. That's when sandy and her girlfriend were driving out near the airport, and they heard a siren and stuff lashing blue lights in the rear view mirror. The young policeman who walked up to the driver's side window was Tim Harris. He was smiling. And sandy thought that he was probably the best looking guy she had ever seen. He had soft Brown hair big green eyes and sandy was a popular girl. So she had plenty of choice to choose from. So for her to think that. That meant something. Now, she'd never considered dating an older, man. But she was starting to think about it when she met, Tim. So Tim says to her miss who is kind of semi serious. I'm afraid I'm going to have to arrest. You you violated a municipal ordinance. I'm sorry. But I'm going to have to write you up for violation of nine one six point eight three resisting an officer. Yes, he was acting business like any filled out a ticket on his clipboard, sandy answered his questions giving him her address height enter weight, and she saw him writing down blonde for her hair any at a smirk on his face as he filled in under is pretty instead of an eye color. So this was his way of being ler tasteless his way to pick up girls. Really, how cool I don't think. It's so cool. We can get into that a little sarcastic. I now. But I think it was a little bit creepy from the beginning would give me the cruise. He tore a copy of the ticket often handed it to. Her and he said you'll have to comply with the instructions there at the bottom and sandy Redwood Tim had written resisting this officer, but will fix that on one fifteen seventy nine at seven PM at city hall. This officer is off duty then in maybe sandy would like to go somewhere without Cindy. So yes, totally picking her up like almost forcing her to its gross or gets worse. Explain that she would have to report to headquarters or the arrest would stay on her record. But she knew that wasn't true y'all should do. So she didn't show up at the police station. The next night. I give her credit for that will for time helped her a little Kim didn't give up so easily. However for days later, he pulled sandy over again as she was driving through town this time he refused to return Sandy's driver's license after he has to see it. He said I'll be writing reports later at the station, and you can come pick up, your license, and we can talk. Yes. So this has to be against the. Rules. But he was good looking. And he thought he could get away with this stuff if she wanted her driver's license back sandy did have to go down to the police station. So she did. And she spent some time with Tim, then, but she didn't agree to a date with him. She believed that he was too old. He was out of school. He was an adult, and she was still a high school junior. She wasn't ready to be tied down to some serious relationship. And it wasn't that Tim frightened her though, he really didn't. Because he was a local boy, and he told her that he'd graduated from high school in seventy six not that long before he'd been attract star, and he'd excelled in the hurdles and the cross country. So he was popular athletic. He didn't seem creepy other than this kind of weird method. He had of picking up women. No, you know, her this is in the seventies. So or forty years ago, maybe maybe it was kinda more acceptable than but I would just have all sorts of red flags going off. If I was sandy. And this guy is hitting on me the way Tim was purposely pulling her over because he wanted her to go out with them. And let's not forget, she's sixteen. That's really young. She's not even at adult. Right. And I'll sandy knew about his family was that his dad had an important job at Cape Canaveral and his mother had a successful career as well. Sandy, probably said, no Tim on multiple occasions, but he kept showing up and every time she was out there. He was and women did not reject him. He had his sights set on Stacy in and sandy any thought he deserved her. So she eventually stopped avoiding him and agreed to meet him on a quiet road in her town of suggestion. He was on duty. But he asked her to meet him, but parking her car beh-. Hind. His now appearance certainly wouldn't have approved. If they had known about their sixteen year old daughter's romance with a twenty one year old guy. But by then sandy was infatuated and everytime. She saw Tim her feelings for him grew stronger. Finally came to Sandy's house in was introduced to her family. He did come across. Well, he was very polite. He looked very put together Sandy's father, light, Tim her mother. Pat wasn't so easily impressed, but petted always been very protective of her children, especially her daughters, and she never did become totally comfortable with Tim. There was just something about him. Trust your mother. That's right. If you don't listen to your mom, she recalled the first time that she met Sandy's new boyfriend. And she said Tim was weird. He was always creeping around. She remembered she told the story about one time when she heard the doorbell ring. But when she went to answer, it nobody was there, and Tim was hiding in the shrubbery beside the house sandy said it was because he was shy. But he was a grown man in a policeman. And it struck her as really odd that he would be playing games like that. And he was always like that kind of creeping around hiding and he liked to jump out at you. Now. Let's stop at that comment jumping out at you. You green river killer Ted Bundy referred this before a lot of killers enjoyed jumping out at women in scaring them wrote. Yeah. So there's a red flag for you. Rings, the doorbell and jumps in the bushes and hides. That's it's weird. Isn't it? Just to me. It's beyond weird. That's the way Tim Harris behaved walk around the house is head down. Like like, he was brooding about something, nevertheless, sandy fell more and more in love with him each day. Now part of it was as she is very flattered by his persistence it made her feel special. He would not take no for an answer any left or no time to see any other guys. She's a sixteen year old high school, girl, and this handsome policeman think she's the best thing ever gets all the tension. I think any young girl would be flattered by that high school kid. Yeah. Young. Now, I think a lot of grown women wouldn't be so flattered by it. But he was very handsome and his uniform. There's no denying that the high school boys that sandy new looked like children compared to him. And unfortunately as soon as sandy showed her love for Tim, though. That's when he change. Returned on her for the first weeks that she dated Tim. She believed that they were going steady. Even though he tormented her by flirting with their girlfriends. He seemed very shy in a way, but he was always coming onto other girls. And of course, that was embarrassing for her. But he didn't even seem to care that bothered her. In addition to flirting with her friends and ignoring her feelings, Tim was not dependable at all. Sometimes he showed up sometimes he showed up hours late and sometimes he didn't show up at all. He would tell sandy that he'd been out of town to visit his mother and sandy would always wait by the phone for Tim, which her mother hated that. She would do that. She hated to see any man treat her daughter with disrespect and she didn't really approve of this when anyway, Moshe Dayan, and that Justice respect, and you have to look at her daughter and say, no what's wrong with you. Why were you so subservient to this guy? Exactly, choose not good. But sandy defended him, and she always made. Excuses for one thing. She didn't know was a Tim was dating another girl just as much as he had been seeing her. Tim's unexplained absences finally grew to a point where sandy confronted him because his excuses are just unbelievable sandy asked around town and learned that the other woman was a pretty college student. She attended Auburn university just across the Alabama border. And she called sandy this woman told her that she intimidate going steady. How are we going to tangle with a college girl? She was very intimidated by that and when sandy confronted Tim with this. He did admit that he was seeing someone else. But he claimed that it wasn't serious. He said that he was trying to break up with this other woman, but it was complicated. And both of these young women were very deeply in love with Tim. Neither one of them were going to leave him and Tim seemed to love that he liked being wanted by these two young women and kind of toying with their emotions. So after sandy learn the Tim was engaged. To the college student she and her sister, Susan drove to Auburn and the visit made seventeen year old sandy feel very miserable. The other woman was wearing an engagement ring. Timid given her which she showed the Susan sandy and showed her wedding gown and bragged about the wedding plans there ended up being no wedding for Tim and his fiancee back in August seventy nine but sandy did finally break up with him. She wouldn't talk to him or see him. She felt like she couldn't trust him. But that August for Kane David left about a thousand people dead in the area, and it ended up bringing sandy and Tim back together. Tim called sandy told her he just had to be sure that she and her parents were okay now by this time it had been three months since she had talked to him. But sandy had secretly wanted him to come back to her. But he was still seeing the other woman. He was juggling both relationships, and he was lying to both women. So even though he had this other woman he had to have sandy back. He just couldn't be rejected by anyone into. Interesting. So the his engaged to this other woman, they have a wedding plan that never comes off and they stay together. Yeah. He both. I think the engagement was called off. But he didn't stop seeing her note that Christmas vacation in seventy nine the other girlfriend dropped out of college and moved in with Tim keeping him was apparently more important to her than her education. And sandy was crushed. She would have done anything to make him happy. And she was putting up with his lies in cheating hoping that he would come to his senses and just be with her. He bought Christmas presents for both of them. He told sandy he would break up with his live in girlfriend, and he was openly cruel to this girlfriend. He didn't fight sandy over to his apartment while the girlfriend was there any seemed to enjoy rubbing it in her face that he was bringing this seventeen year old over. So it's getting very dysfunctional. Yes. Isn't it? So this girlfriend lived with Tim for six months, and then she finally had enough and she moved out. She told her co workers that it was almost a relief to be done with him. She had showed up at work many times before with bruises. But she would never admit how she'd got them when when she was away from Tim. Finally, she did seem like a happier person. And no one sub bruises on her anymore. So she really dodged a bullet. They're ripping so so by this time in nineteen eighty Cindy had won him Harris for herself big price looking back. She probably foot winning Winnington was not such a victory for 'cause life with Tim was never easy when they did get back together, sandy was much less trusting of Tim he had betrayed her too many times for her to ever forget that she tried to believe when he apologized 'cause she wasn't the type of person hold a grudge. And she couldn't stay angry with him. After all Tim was her soulmate. She loved him. While from the time he was in junior high. Timid always had a girlfriend he stayed with each girl for a year or two, and then he was always the one who did the breaking up and moved on to the next girl right away. Sometimes this even overlapped where he wasn't finished with one girl. He was already onto the next one. But the thing about him was he would never let a woman reject him. If one of them tried to leave him, it would be a big drama, and he would try and fight to get her back and then set it up. So he was the one who eventually did the leaving with sandy. He would never accept her decision to leave him. There was something very wrong with Tim's feelings about women apparently while he flirted and charm them there was a part of him that disrespected, and maybe even hated women men who knew Tim recognized his contempt for women male co workers reported that they would be driving down the street, and Tim would hang out the window and kala woman a slut or make obscene gestures at her. It was just beyond inappropriate. This is a grown, man. A policeman. Here's a piece of work. Yeah. You could say that timid always wanted to be a policeman when his parents, divorced. He lived with his father and stepmother in order that he could graduate high school stay in the town where he knew people who could help and get started and law enforcement. He had always been a good worker, although his father George had a good job as draughtsman working in the space program and his mother Virginia worked as an executive secretary. Tim was one of six kids big family that grew up near Washington DC in Alexandria, Virginia. Cheap place to live. No, not even back then. So a six kids would be expensive. Tim was actually born in April of nineteen fifty eight and he was their second child. These were all good looking kids with Brown hair and blue green eyes in nineteen sixty five George and his wife for Jinya. Tim's mom, moved their family to satellite beach. And that's where George had accepted the job in the space program. Tim worked during summer vacations and school breaks, usually at Disney World in Orlando the summer after he graduated high school he worked as a busboy for a restaurant in DisneyWorld that fall he took community college classes that he hoped would help him get a job as a policeman as that was the goal in January of nineteen seventy seven Tim was sponsored by the satellite beach. Police department to take the basic police, training course at Brevard community college. Tim finish the course in April of seventy seven and he couldn't find a police job right away. So he joined the US army reserve, and he attended military police school until that Ocober counselor at provide community college wrote a letter recommending Tim to the mayor of Melbourne village, Florida as a good candidate for their police force. So in November of nineteen seventy seven Tim was hired as a police officer for the millburn village police department. Nope, burn village was a tiny town in provide county with a police force of only two or three offices. There wasn't much to do there. But it was a beginning. Tim was on his way and he wanted to become a Florida highway patrolman. But at this point, he was only nineteen and he was a he was voted Melbourn village police officer of the year while he was there. Well, if there's only two or three others. Would have had to have some time. That's right. The wards just got passed back and forth among the two or three guys. So Tim was the only one on the force who hadn't gotten that honor. When he got it. So it was just kind of bound to have it wasn't anything special like it might sound. And actually, the police department was concerned about reports it received about Tim Harris there were allegations that Tim was using his badge and his status to stop young women sometimes taking their licenses so they would have to meet him to get their license back pro he learned his MO early. So that's what he done with sandy. Also, Tim had allegedly arrested a motorist for having an expired temporary tag. When there was a valid tag in the back seat. But he just kinda lost his cool and overreacted also troubling was that Tim drove the squad car, very fast and recklessly. So he was given three choices. He could resign from there. He could be fired or he could be put on probation and Tim chose to resign. But still the police chief gave him a glowing letter of recommendation which looking back we could really criticize him for that. We've done a few cases of this. They Michael Swango comes to mind. People kept writing glowing letters. Yeah. Just kinda passing the buck. Exactly. Yeah. And I think from their standpoint, you're right. If they write something less than what Tori should come down on. Exactly. So that's void. All that. Trouble will just say he resigned, and he was a great cop. Yes. But he was actually a dangerous man already here is what nineteen twenty years old young. But I guess they're excuse at this point was all he'll outgrow it. He's just young sure. But with each new job application, Tim explained that he had resigned from the department because he was very unhappy with the department explaining that, they didn't live up to his professional standards. So since the Melbourne village police department soon closed down whatever problems Tim had there. There were just forgotten any had a clean slate. Anyway, for a while he worked installing aluminum, doors and windows, and he told this employer that he didn't plan on staying with them for long because he was going to have a big career in law enforcement in a nineteen seventy eight Tim gut his job with the Sebastian Florida. Police department sandy is due to graduate high school in June of nineteen eighty but she didn't have to attend school for the last six months because you already had all the credits. So she's working in the public supermarket in the bakery. She was good at managing money. And she saved as much as she could sandy also came to the conclusion fairly quickly that Tim was not very frugal. He lived way beyond. His means. There's always something he wanted to buy. So he didn't smoke drink didn't do drugs. So it seemed okay that he wanted to buy things he wanted to own his own home since his parents had divorced. Timid never felt he belonged anywhere. Every once in awhile. Tim would let Sani think might get married someday. She wanted to believe him. But you still interesting things going really well between Tim and sandy in the beginning. She knew he still flirted with other girls, and she suspected that he sometimes did more than that. But she really loved him. This was her first love, and if Tim had some wild oats left, so she decided she'd wait around for him to grow out of it. She just really wanted to be the woman who would be there. When all the others were gone and would be his lifelong love one day, sandy was visiting timid his apartment when she answered the door and a hysterical. Young woman a waitress from a local restaurant rushed in and said that she was pregnant with Tim's baby. Sandy didn't say anything, but she pointed toward the bedroom where Tim was still in bed when Tim saw this crying waitress. He pulled the covers over his head and wouldn't face her. When she left him started to cry in sandy estim- some questions about win. He had slept with this woman. But he obviously didn't know anything about pregnancy. Because it was too soon. Soon for her to even know if she was pregnant, so it was either a false alarm, or this woman was making up pregnancy to get Tim's attention. But Tim was relieved and sandy once again forgave him. Tim was the first guy sandy ever had sex with. He would be the only man for many years. The first time she slept with him. She was just seventeen and she was very disappointed. There was no foreplay. No kissing. No loving words. He just threw her on the bed and had intercourse with her and she hoped that their sex life would improve but she wasn't the type who would ever complain. So she didn't say anything to Tim about it. I imagine the kind of guy Tim was he really wouldn't take it. Well, not very opened a constructive criticism. Probably not so in the summer of nineteen eighty can begin to talk more seriously about marriage. This time though, sandy wasn't ready and she tried to stall him. She wanted to be sure of him before she committed to him for life. She believed probably wrongly. The tomb would be faithful once they were married, but she didn't wanna rush it. Tim at the same time had become dependent on sandy to manage his life in the late summer. Tim found a small house in Sebastian heights. It wasn't fancy, but it wasn't new. It had about nine hundred square feet of space and ahead. A little garage. Tim was making about sixteen thousand dollars a year. And he didn't have the down payment on the forty six thousand dollar asking price. But he was installing some lighting for a contractor and he managed to buy the house without a down payment. So he had a mortgage. She had truck payments a Sears card in a MasterCard. So sandy helped him she took over the management of his finances. And she also shared her money with him. So it was sandy who made sure the mortgage was paid on time. But the problem was Tim soon got bored with his new house as he had a tendency to do it wasn't big enough. And he wanted things desperately until he got them. And then things in people began to lose their appeal to him. He always needed something new and something more in order to be happy. So even when he got something he didn't feel satisfied for very long. There's always something better around the corner. Yes, which he didn't have the money for their already over extended just paying for the house the truck the cards. Yeah. In December of nineteen eighty Tim and sandy went out together and picked out her engagement ring Cindy picked a date in April for the wedding. But then they settled on July of nineteen eighty one in their wedding pictures. They looked happy despite the fact that he was handsome and photogenic Tim hated to have his picture taken. He smiled for the camera. But behind her back who's pinching sandy hard to let her know he was not happy and their sex life. Didn't get any better after their marriage for their honeymoon. They drove up through Georgia North Carolina for Tim's brother's wedding on the following Saturday. They saw the smoky mountains and chimney rock on the road trip. It seemed the sandy. They really had a clean slate ahead of them. Tim would be faithful they would have babies, and they would spend the rest of their lives together. So during the honeymoon they stayed with Tim's family in West Virginia. Which was pretty uncomfortable for sandy. Tim's mother Virginia in one of his sisters had driven to Florida for Tim Sandy's wedding. So sandy met her new mother-in-law for the first time on the day before her wedding. So it was difficult to spend four days of her honeymoon with people that she barely knew in the family wedding pictures. Tim's right arm was behind sandy he was pinching her. But of course, the camera didn't show that part sandy thought it was really weird that she knew next to nothing about Tim's family. He didn't talk much about them. And when he did he was very negative, especially about his mother and his stepmother, he was especially angry that his father had divorced his mother. And he blamed the stepmother for that instead of his father. He lived with his father and stepmother until he graduated from high school. But for some unknown reason he was no longer. Welcome in their home. Sandy never found out. Why the only time sandy ever met? Tim's father was at her wedding. Even though the only lived in our away. So very strange very, isn't it as a lot going on behind the scenes there that we just don't know about with Tim's family Renault. So one of Tim's lifelong dreams came true in February of nineteen eighty two. He applied to the Florida highway patrol for job as a trooper the highway patrol put applicants through multiple physical, mental and psychological tests, Tim filled out forms asking about his life, his family and his former jobs the highway patrol did background checks, and Tim and his family and they didn't find a blemish on anyone's record Florida highway patrol. Investigators talked with Sandy's and Tim's next door neighbors on both sides and at that time, thanks to Sani. Tim had an excellent credit rating. He listed his debts as thirty four thousand gopher Atlantic mortgage for the house two hundred fifty. To Susan Roebuck and hundred fifty two master charge. No late payments on the record. Yes. He was hired. And he was very thrilled. He resigned from the Sebastian police department and prepared to attend the Florida highway patrol sixty fifth recruit training school which began that may of eighty two and finished that August. So this meant that he had to leave sandy for three months while he was up at the state capital and talahassee that summer was one of the most romantic times in their marriage. According to sandy while he was living at the highway patrol academy. Sandy drove the sixteen hours roundtrip to see him every other weekend. She had a fulltime job. So she couldn't leave until Saturday to go see him and she had to return again Sunday. So that was a lot of driving. But for her the drive was worth that. During these times, he seemed more romantic more attentive to her than he did during any other time during their marriage. And maybe it was the separation that made him act nicer to her not sure. The Florida highway patrol's class recruits went to class each day from eight to five five days a week and most of Saturday intense classwork, it was very intense program. They learn how to preserve evidence had a lifting prints and had an interview and interrogate suspects and witnesses. There were radar and other speed measurements devices to learn how to use Tim's main interest in law enforcement was traffic. He did very well in criminal investigation, including awas and things happen to work out. Well for them, so many completed his training. He was assigned to the Fort Pierce district in nearby Vero beach close enough that they didn't have to relocate, which was the exception. Because most of the troopers did when they started out. So they kind of had a favor done for them by people. They knew sounds like some things didn't change though as sandy hope they would after they were married because Tim wasn't interested in socializing with other couples. He would go fishing sometimes with another. Trooper and he and his brother-in-law Don were both cops. So they played cards with dawn and Susan once in a while Tim didn't drink at all though, he actually seemed to have an aversion to L Kahal, and people knew him would say that they think it was because he didn't like to lose any kind of control of himself. He always liked to know exactly what he was doing. Although lots of times what he was doing was not great had definitely had a temper. So I wonder if alcohol would have made that worse probably might have been a real mean drunk if he ever got drunk, but even when they were dating Tim had used some physical force to control sandy, and he continued to do that in their marriage. He would twist her arm behind her back if she said anything he didn't like or pincher at the top of her thighs between her legs, which really hurt. But nobody could see it. He wanted everything done his way that was for sure he had the newest and best car the biggest boat in all the newest technology, and he would beg sandy to buy whatever it was that. He. Head to have like she was the mom, and he was a child sometimes sandy gave in and sometimes she stood up to him. She had managed their finances. And she knew what they could afford. What they couldn't she'd been with Tim for three years by then and she knew that he got bored with each new thing. And then he would want something else. Very frustrating. Was besides frustrating. As a problem sandy made about fifteen thousand a year to made a little over twenty two thousand. So they couldn't afford a new car a new boat anew house or a new baby on their income. And then Santa got pregnant, and Tim seemed happy about the baby. But he thought that sandy should still do everything the way she did before she got pregnant lifting things working two jobs, and of course, having sex whenever he wanted. Sometimes she couldn't do all that he expected of her and he was off in a noise and cruel to her. There was no question about what they would name the baby there because Tim had decided for himself before they were even married that if he ever had a daughter her name would be Jennifer Lynn in a son would be Timothy junior. These were the names that he had picked up for his children in sandy had no input at all. And she continued to work fulltime as the secretary and to deliver morning papers on a two AM route. She worked in area where there were apartment house. Houses and she had to carry too heavy sex through the entire route of six hundred customers that was heavy work for a pregnant woman on the morning before their daughter, Jennifer was born sandy as Tim to drive her hunter route when they got home. He was mad at her because she was uncomfortable. And she didn't know whether she should go to the hospital or not by the time. She realized she was in labor. She was in pain and Tim did have to drive her to the hospital when I got to the emergency entrance. Tim drove right by to the parking lot. His still mad at her and told her you're gonna walk bitch. Can you imagine that? I love you too, Honey. So they're baby. Jennifer, Lynn, Harris. Their daughter was born just five hours after they arrived there and Tim refused to go into the labor room. But he did seem proud of his daughter after she was born sandy rationalized staying with him because he didn't drink any worked hard. And she thought he would be a good dad, but also no inter family had ever been divorced. So she really wasn't consider. Being that divorce would be an option for her. No matter how unhappy she was. Tim's brother-in-law done Depp. And put him was pretty strange there were friends because they're married two sisters, and because they were police officers, but that been filled him was a loner them love boats. He lived to catch drunk drivers. Besides those things is hard to find anything to talk to him about when he did know was it, Tim literally hated women once when Tim came home after working fatal accident sandy noticed that the tragedy didn't seem to affect him at all sometimes he'd come home and say we had a really good accident tonight. It was neat. So that's bizarre. Very, but sandy continued to keep her marriage problems mostly to herself she actually felt like she was doing something wrong. Tim liked everything to look perfect on the surface. Any would have been really angry? If she told anyone about their problems than he found out. So they wanted to bigger place. They bought a plot of land and built a three thousand square foot house. And that was after she talked him down. He actually wanted to build a six thousand square foot house. Not much income, but he was able to do most of the work himself. But then as time passed, and they lived in this new home, he lost interest in it and the house kinda fell into disrepair because he didn't wanna fix anything anymore amendments eighty seven Tim put in a request to work as a canine officer. This would involve getting a dog and be sent to canine training and Fort Lauderdale. So he was excited when he is given orders to report to canine school his dog was named shadow. Tim spent weeks training his Doug. He built the pen for shadow out beside their new house. Otherwise, dude is didn't really change. She still investigated accidents may DUI arrests and route speeding tickets, right? Because he was waiting for something to come through where they would do more work with the dogs, and I guess that never really happened. But he's got a cool dog very nice looking dog. But kind of intimidating dog as well. Sure. Yeah. Why don't you tell her audience about our sponsor today? Hey, you need if. New ear buds are headphones checkout, tweaked audio dot com. Tweaked audio ear buds and headphones. Come in eight styles and six colors their miked and non Mike versions available all design for great sounding talk podcasts. Audio books or music. I'll tweaked buds are compatible with ipads, iphones and Android devices in the all come with a lifetime warranty and free shipping as a true crime brewery listener you can get thirty three percent off your purchase by using our promo code brewery. That's tweaked audio dot com. T W E A K E D A U D. I o dot com and promo code brewery worker back to the story. We're gonna talk about him Harris's victim Moran Hendrix, so Lorraine. She was born in Stamford, Connecticut to Frank and Jodie Dombrowski Frank was a career army officer. So the dombrowski's moved often when Lorraine was five they lived in jer-. Germany by the time. She was seventeen they were living in Baltimore. And in between. They lived in several different posts Lorraine was a talented swimmer. And she earned her senior lifesaving badge when she was sixteen Lorraine was very pretty too and she won beauty contests. She was miss Stamford, Connecticut. Nineteen sixty seven and then I runner up to miss Connecticut. She had a real talent for languages as well. She went to the university of Connecticut, and she became fluent in French German Spanish and polish now she hadn't been so nice. She may have made other women jealous, but she was very nice. And she wasn't at all conceited. Love little kids and animals shoes. Adventurous, and she would try anything once just as long as it didn't go against her own moral code. She was a drummer in a rock n roll band for a while she climb mountains swung off the Monroe PTS. And she tried parachuting much more adventurous than I am. Well, maybe when you were twenty you're. Like that too. Now, I wasn't Khokar Lorraine was once Mr. short of graduating from college when she dropped out and she married John BoyZone in nineteen seventy seven she was so happy with him. John wanted to be professional musician. And they lived in the Miami area for ten years. She was very attractive like I said, so she modeled for a while to help support his ambition. But then Lorraine John divorced after eleven years together. Lorraine would later say that they gave up too easily, and they could have made the marriage work. But after the divorce both of their careers really took off John joined a locally successful band. He owned a sound stage and rented out musical equipment. The rain spent fourteen years in Fort Lauderdale working as a promotional marketing executive. She was full of good ideas. And she enjoyed being around people after being single for two years. She met Rick Hendrix, an executive with Eastern Airlines and a captain in the army. Reserve Lorraine fell in love with Rick and they were married just six weeks after. They met. So that was a quick courtship. Certainly was so Lorraine was in her thirties by then and she was wanting a family when she was thirty eight she became pregnant in June of nineteen eighty four. She had a baby girl she named Kathryn. She took a sabbatical from work until Catherine was old enough to attend school Lorraine cooked grandmother's recipes for traditional polish dishes and would prepare an Easter feast Liker ancestors had served in Poland. She also worked with polish families who immigrated to help them set up their households in America in eighty eight. Rick Hendrix was offered a job as an executive with Blue Cross, but he had to relocate the family from Fort Lauderdale to Jacksonville. It turned out that Lorraine Rick had very little in common except for their love for their daughter, Katherine, and they started realizing that after a while Lorraine was very physical woman who enjoyed the outdoor life and in the beginning of their marriage. They had done those types of things together. But then Rick started. Ding, all of his energy into his career. He liked to stay home and relax on the weekends and Lorraine was bored. They did try to make the marriage work for their daughter, Katherine sake. But the eventually did file for divorce when Catherine was almost six Lorraine opened up her own PR firm in Jacksonville. She called it Laura lie promotions LTd, then it was in may eighty nine when Lorraine met a new love, suddenly she's in her forties and her life is seeming to change for the better her career was expanding. And she was in love neither Lorraine nor this man knew if their relationship could continue to be as perfect as it seemed in the beginning. But her friends would say, she was giddy like a high school girl around the same time, Tim invited sandy out for dinner. This was September eighty nine and sandy was surprised and excited. But this evening was brutal in sandy would never completely get over it. It was to have been a birthday celebration for sandy Tim would be working night shift on her birth. Day. So he told her they would celebrate early. They hardly ever went out in the evening together and hired a sitter. So it's kind of a special occasion. But their food had just arrived. When Tim said, I think, you should know. I'm seeing another woman sandy was taken completely off guard because she knew that Tim flirted, but she hadn't even considered that he might be having an affair. She thought he had been faithful since they got married. So after Tim broke this news to sandy he expected their marriage to go on as usual. But Santana's obsessed about this you needed to know the details of the affair, even though she was dreading the answers. So Tim finally confessed everything and sandy was shocked to learn that he had been having this affair for four years syndicate her failing marriage from her family hoping still at there would be some way to save it. She knew that when she told her mother her mom would never forgive him. Now, Tim promised her that he wouldn't see the other woman anymore. Sandy didn't believe him. We've heard. That story before exactly. So I would she believe him, but he did agree to try marriage counseling. He promised that. He was no longer cheating, and then he wanted to make his marriage work. But it turned out that he was lying to both sandy and the counselor, and it didn't take long for sandy to find out. The Tim was still saying other women as much as ever when night Tim was called out by the dispatcher, but his patrol car was being repaired. He told sandy is going to drive a truck to another troopers house and borrows patrol car. So sandy weight of a few minutes, and she called the other trooper NASA speak to Tim, of course, he wasn't there. He was out with the other woman says she finally filed for divorce after that incident. And this was late November of eighty nine. Tim really freaked out though, he was shocked that sandy would actually leave him he begged her to change your mind he'd really treated her like shit. But now that she was leaving. He suddenly couldn't live without her in his mind sandy actually belonged to him. She was more of a possession. Then a partner in life in sandy was a really beautiful woman. But Tim finally seemed to realize that he was obsessed with controlling her. Susan, Don Knapp in new the situation, and they tried to mind their own business. But Tim was really getting scary. He was jealous of sandy. And he lost his mind when he realized that she was not going to take him back. Don had seen men who would rather see a woman dead than let her go. And this is what he was seeing with Tim. He'd never thought Tim was normal to begin with. And now as behavior was very unpredictable. Dan, worried about what Tim might do next. He hoped that. Tim's career is a cop which had always been really important him would keep him from doing anything crazy when would hope and undescended ninth nineteen eighty nine. Tim's obsession reached a new level. Cindy sister, Susan had invited her to go to the uptown lounge in Vero beach with her who was a Saturday night. Dine was working Tim photo. Sandy and Susan to the Vero beach police department where they stopped into seed time before going to the uptown. Don heard shouting in the hallway walked out to see Tim, glaring, his wife, sandy Tim seemed to be totally out of control in a rage. Donna try to stay out of their marital problems, but Tim had gone too far this time so Don told him to leave Tim lift in a huff peeling out of the parking lot. So done followed Susan's car to the parking lot behind the lounge to make sure Tim was stalking them within a couple of minutes. Tim came running towards sandy shouting, sandy come home. You supposed to be with me, Tim insisted that he had a talk with her made this huge scene dined in when arrest him. So he called another officer and asked him to keep an eye on Tim, Tim was a state trooper. So they wanted to keep the situation as low key as possible. But if he tried anything violent they're ready to take him in, but Tim return to that bar twice that night. And finally sandy gave in went home with him. He actually left the place with her in a headlock, but sandy didn't wanna get him fired from his. Job. So she just said, it's okay. I'm just going to go with them. Now after that, Don went to a supervisor in explained his concerns about Tim because things were really getting out of control very worried about sandy and the children. So the Florida highway patrol did know about the divorce and about Tim's out of line behavior. Also, his job performance was deteriorating. But it wasn't enough for them to find him unfit for duty. At least not yet, the uptown incident had happened when he was off duty, and it was considered a domestic dispute the supervisor decided to keep an eye on the situation, but they didn't take any disciplinary action against him Harris at this point. So Tim did move out. Sandy wasn't taking back. Yep. Planted tape recorders in the house after the move, and he taped all Sandy's phone calls who had also break into the stairs to the house at night Pleming into the large outdoor dog pin crowing into the kids room and sleeping there. So that's pretty creepy. I don't think that would fly nowadays. No Lorraine Hendrix back to her. She left her home in Jacksonville at eight AM on Sunday March fourth and she had a busy schedule, and she often drove to fast, she could be very impatient about getting where she needed to go. She'd had eight speeding tickets in the previous seven years, which she didn't know as she left for her trip on March fourth was that her license had already been suspended her notification was in the mail, but she hadn't gotten it yet. But that wasn't a huge deal because she could get it back. I'll she had to do was pay. Some speeding tickets lorraine's parents were babysitting. Her daughter, Catherine and the rain called her dad from the road about ten AM to ask things were going to talk to her little girl and tell her should be home the next day after that. There was no there were no more calls from from Lorraine Lorraine didn't show up as expected at a friend Carol's house in fort. Lauderdale that Sunday afternoon by one pm, but Carroll wasn't worried right away. She expected Lorraine to be a little late and she had no phone in the house for Lorraine to collar on. But then by three Carol expected Lorraine to be there, and she was getting annoyed. It really wasn't like Lorraine to just blow her off and not show up. Lorraine's mum Jodie called Carol about five o'clock to see if Lorraine was with her and she wasn't lorraine's father called every highway patrol office along her path on the interstate. And none of the offices had any report on her. Then it was midnight. And no one had still heard from Lorraine. So people are getting worried she didn't meet up with the real estate agent shoes supposed to at six PM, and she filled. The keeper dental appointment the next morning Monday. Her parents called everyone they could think of to see if they might have heard from Lorraine, but no one had by Monday, March fifth Marin was listed as missing person in the state of Florida her physical description the. Clothes. She had worn her birthdate at her home address role on file so lorraine's family and friends tried to tell them selves at nothing could have happened to her on a sunny Sunday afternoon. She wouldn't have picked up a hitchhiker, and she had planned no stops between Jacksonville and Fort Lauderdale. If she'd been in an accident, the highway patrol would know, and they would have notified her family, then lorraine's car was found, but they found no trace of Lorraine or her purse or wallet or her glasses Florida highway patrolman, Mike trans you who's patrol district included the same stretch of I ninety five through Indian river, and Saint Lucie counties that Tim Harris worked was on the day shift on that Monday. And he was the one who found her car. It was just before noon and he saw the nineteen eighty two silver Honda Accord parked on the right shoulder of the southbound. I ninety five transit pulled in behind the Honda any walked around it. And there was no one in the car, but both of the front. Doors were unlocked, and there was a red briefcase a thirty five millimeter camera a blue and tan tote bag with expensive running shoes in it a makeup bag a watch headphones red suitcase and a blue windbreaker inside. Now, these were items that a passer-by might steal. So he guests that the car hadn't been there. Very long. It seemed that nothing was missing but the keys purse wallet. And of course, Lorraine herself Lorraine soon to be ex husband. Rick Hendrix, had the spare keys to the car. And after the car was towed he came to the impound yard, and he met with investigators the car started without a problem. So that pretty much ruled out car trouble. As the reason why she had parked on the side of the highway investigators interviewed, Rick, and Lauren's parents. They all said that Lorraine would never pick up a hitchhiker should stop the she saw a turtle in the road. And try to help it across the street or she would stop for police car. So on March eighth during a search of three. Mile area. Ran were Lawrence card been found detective, Phil Williams found the rains body in a wooded section of the median the medical examiner concluded that she had died by strangulation on March fourth. They found a fracture of the thyroid cartilage in the neck concealed hemorrhage deepen the neck tissues and a contusion injury on the front of her left shoulder. Also, someone positioned her naked body. So that our legs extended on either side of a pine tree and she was face down. So the tree trunk rose. Like a creepy phallic symbol between her buttocks. She couldn't have fallen that way. Someone strong would have had to grab her by the feet and Drager backward until her genitals were up against the tree. So it really made. It seem like it was some kind of sick sex crime posing the buddy. Yeah. Very bad. So detective, Phil Williams work the case. And he kept thinking about lorraine's family saying that to stop for a turtle or a cop. Could there be police involvement? It could have been a cop or some dress like a cop Ted Bundy Williams remembered he used that technique effectively by denting himself as a policeman before he lured his victims away from shopping malls, college campuses. All it took was a fake badge. It pretty much anyone could buy and they were things in the case that went along with the Cup or an ex-cop is the killer. The turnaround road through the pine woods median, and I ninety five was used pretty much exclusively by police, very few civilians even knew that it was there and also lorraine's license registration where missing her while in credit cards had been found around the time they found her body. But there was no sign of her license or her car registration, and as you know, a driver's license. Vehicle registration are the things the cop s for when he pulls you over. So I think that was a big clue there seems to be right. Yeah. Definitely. But if Lauren who've been stopped by policemen. There wasn't any record of it. The only time Lorraine. Played had been run through the system was win trooper might transit entered it when he found her abandoned car and March fifth so investigators looked at any warning tickets given out in that area on March fourth and among the warning tickets turned into the Florida highway patrol was when the trooper Tim Harris had written to a woman that we will Laura at ten forty eight in the morning on March fourth at state road nine just not far from where lorraine's card and found. Sandy Harris said called detective Williams on March twenty four th her estranged husband Tim had broken into her home and attacked her. He wanted to have sex with her, and he showed her that he was wearing black lace panties and pantyhose and neither of these items belonged to sandy she felt certain that he was going to rape killer that night, but she agreed that they would get back together. And she somehow convinced him to leave the house that night. But now sandy was terrified of Tim. And she was actually beginning to think he might be a killer. She took her kids, and she went to stay with her sister Susan and her husband done, and then she filed for restraining order against him, which is probably something she should've done a long time ago before that sure. So had she heard about the murder disappeared woman. She knew this tilles investigate him. Why shouldn't call about that? But I'm sure she had heard about it goose's after this all occurred. Yes. But she didn't call the say she thought he'd done that. No, no. Shoes word for her own safety and her child safety. Yes, there to children now because she had a son after she had Jennifer she had a Tim junior her. So they actually had two kids by now I forgot to mention him to little kids through little kids. Yeah. Both men the way the comparison of the named the way he'd plan before even met sandy. Yes. So detective Williams wondered why Tim Harris it stopped Laura forgoing only five miles over the speed limit. He located her at her home and asked her if she remembered being pulled over by trooper, Tim Harris, and boy did she remember he remembered very well. She said that he stopped her for speeding. And she knew she wasn't speeding. She actually had a radar detector on that had not activated. He insisted that she was going six miles over the limit. And she knew that she was only going about sixty four miles an hour and a sixty five mile an hour zone. She said that the trooper who stopped you're headed dog with him and she'd been annoyed when he directed. Her to step out of. Her car and walked back toward his vehicle. But when she got out, this is when his attitude changed, she was very pregnant. It was obvious any might not have noticed that when she was in the car, but he couldn't miss it when she stepped out. So he told her that he had clocked. Her speed it seventy one miles an hour, and he wrote her a warning ticket and then an irritated her. But then he said, which was ATI said you can just throw that away. It doesn't mean anything. So she left that stop feeling very creeped out like she just missed something horrible happening to her. She heard. Yes. So she had been traveling alone and she confided that she'd been suspicious of the way the officer behaved. He had been polite and professional but through something about him that made her uneasy and she'd been quite upset by the encounter. She knew. She was speeding and the trooper had of known that too it sounded as of she'd been stop when she wasn't speeding and that Harrison only told her to tear up the ticket after he had her. Get out of the car, and he could see she was pregnant so that that would definitely put some ice water in my veins. Yeah. Yeah. So the detective detective Williams wanted to talk to Tim Harris. And if Harris suspected that Williams was interested in talking to him about Lorraine Hendrix murder. It was likely that he would be defensive. But if he thought that Williams was only investigating the domestic dispute with sandy Williams thought that would be easier. So that's what he was calling him up in mentioning sandy agreed to meet with Williams her complaint to the sheriff's office about Tim's attack on her was officially logged in a battery sandy was terrified by what Tim had done to her. But she was even more afraid of her deep suspicion that timid done something more horrible than she could have imagined sandy told Williams that timid threaten to rape her several times while he had her pinned to the floor and handcuffed and that he had also threatened to kill both of them with a gun if she didn't come back to him. Then she told the detective about the women's undergarments that he had been wearing she agreed David tape recorder attached to reform at her office. So that Tim's phone calls to her would be recorded. She had a restraining order against him and she'd moved back into her house, but Tim did continue to be able to visit with their children detective Williams interviewed Tim, Harris. And Tim's version of the night of March twenty fourth was very different from Sandy's. He insisted the sandy had wanted a back. Rub. And that she enjoyed wrestling and playing around with the handcuffs in his version. It had been sandy who had kept luring him back home, and it was sandy who had been suggesting sexual access you hundred try Tim, explain it. He would do anything to get sandy Beck that he denied that. He had brought any women's underwear to Sandy's house detective Williams checked with Lorraine Hendrix, friends and her estranged husband is sue kind of lingerie. She usually wore Moran at often wore black lace panties. But no one could identify the black panties left and sandy Harris. Home is definitely be willing to Lorraine they were size. But there are now stretched from being won by two hundred pound man, sandy had made a criminal complaint for the time. Tim attacked or in the lace underwear any at handcuffed. Her so tightly that her wrists were black and purple. He was taken off the road. And he was given administrative duties detective Williams suspected him now of lorraine's murder, but the police had been unable to find any physical evidence against him at all when asked if he would take a polygraph. Tim said that he would knowing that Tim knew all the political I in the area Williams asked him to pick which one he would like to have administer the test to him Tim stalled. But then he did give permission for a squad car to be searched. Whenever Williams go to close in discussions with Tim about the ran Hendrix's murder to mood dig in his heels. So he did not kill her. It did not stop her it ever. Seen her Tim said he'd been looking for drug runners, and he definitely had not been out there looking for single women to stop Tim agreed to take a polygraph. But on the day he was supposed to take it. He called Williamson said he had hired an attorney who advised him against it. So it had taken many calls to get Tim to come in. And give an official statement. If he didn't confess to strangling and Hendrix, there's a good chance. He's gonna walk away because without a confession. They really had nothing. Even with a confession conviction might not be assure thing. However, the circumstantial evidence was accumulating the search of Tim's patrol car has shown that he was a man preoccupied with sex. He was a guy who got off on the power that is uniform in his position gave him over women. They had found carbon copies of tickets where he'd written comments on female drivers, measurements breast size legs and overall. Sexiness also hidden among his possessions, where he never thought anyone could find them were two cartoons. When look too. So it might have been xeroxed kind of dirty joke that high school or junior high boys might pass around while the other one they thought that he had drawn himself. It was drawn in pencil on pad like a line pet of paper. And this one showed a nude woman kneeling at a state patrolman's feet and asking trooper Harris. Are you sure I'm doing this? Right. And the trooper answer's yes, this is the new Breathalyzer test. So that's pretty gross. It is that something like a twelve year old might or no question. Yeah. Not something you'd expect an adult man to be carrying around with them. No. So the after noon of Friday, April six. For weeks after Phil Williams said discover, the rain Hendrix body, Tim came to the state attorney's office for an interview, and he did not bring an attorney when asked about Sunday March fourth Tim recalled that he had set up his stationary radar near the wooded median, and this was between ten and eleven AM. He denied that he had ever gone down into the woods in the median. He said he'd just been they're sitting profiling drivers he could see inside the cars coming at enough to see how many people were inside if they were black or white, male or female, if they had tinted glass in their windows, and he remembered the pregnant driver, Laura and insisted that she was speeding Tim said he had left the median strip area just fifteen or twenty minutes after giving Laura the warning ticket and the only ticket he had given that day was to a black man who was speeding into the high nineties. Tim said he had turned back north toward his brother. David. House at the end of his shift, and he slept there that night, and then he had the next two days off for Williams. Turn the conversation back to the polygraph, and Tim city just didn't wanna take it. He said he'd taken one eight years before when he applied for the patrol, and it had shown his being deceptive about a time he'd been stopped by policemen. He'd been telling the truth the polygamy for head is driving record right there in front of him. But idly Tim's answered come up that he is hiding something. So he hadn't trusted the polygraph ever since and Tim continued to deny killing the rain. But after the interview continued he finally said that he had had consensual sex with her and that he had left the site before she did when he left he said, she was fine. And now he felt horribly guilty that he didn't make sure she was safe in back in her car before he left. So we're getting one of these kind of gradual confessions little by little here. That's a bad mood. Can't go changing your story. You know that I know that. Yes, I know that but he killed somebody. So we're glad that he's confessing. Right. Tim went on to say that Lorraine wasn't stopped for speeding. He'd actually pulled her over for wearing headphones and no one, but the investigative team knew that Lorraine Hendrix routinely. Didn't listen to music through headphones? While she drove in no one else knew that they had found her headphones in the car. Either. Then information had not been published in any paper. Tim said Lorraine Hendrix had been so starved for sex though, that she had offered to have both intercourse and oral sex with him because she said she hadn't had any in a while because she was getting divorced. The two of them had talked about their divorces he said, and they agreed to have sex in the nearby woods. Tim said he had no idea why lorraine's driver's license and registration were missing. He said he'd given them back to her right after he'd quickly looked at them. When esta what had happened to lorraine's warning ticket? He said he had thrown all of the copies away. So he left that day without confessing to murdering her, but he's definitely looking guilty. At this point who sure of who's coming around, then a few days later, he was broad Beck in for another interrogation. And this time you cave he admitted to killing la- rainbow strangling her with her own. Panties. He claimed that as he's beginning to have sex with the rain. He started thinking of her as sandy called sandy and took out his rage. It sandy on the rain. He continued to insist that will ranted wanted to have sex with him. Nobody believed that scenario now if Lorraine had been so willing to have sex with a complete stranger on the interstate. Why there been evidence in her autopsy that she had been beaten around her face in head? There was very rapid decomposition of her head compared to the rest of her body. And according to the ME that suggested that she had suffered severe trauma to her face like in a beating the investigators believe that Tim Harris had punched Lorraine to make her do what he wanted. So he had raped her. Of course. Yes. So Tim was arrested and the little purple Paseo the state troopers in his handcuffs. Most of them were shocked to see the previously meticulous trooper being locked up for murder. Lorraine's car had been found with both front doors unlocked. And her belongings still inside, including a briefcase with important papers, everyone who knew her well said she'd been cautious woman, she never would have left a car unlocked, especially not with their things inside the only way Lorraine would've walked away from her unlock car would have been if Tim Harris it Astra to step back to his patrol car for a moment. This is fairly standard procedure in Florida offices have the driver's sit in the patrol unit while the head the dispatcher check wants and warrants while they write tickets Lorraine might have complied with this request thinking and should be back in her car in a few minutes. Commonsense of this. She would never have left her car unlocked and willingly company stranger down into the dark woods for sex pulled over and I've never been asked to get out of the car. I don't think definitely not to get in the squad car. No. So that's odd to me. But I guess it's something that they did at least back in the eighties been might have. But Lorraine hadn't been hard up for sex. She had this new lover who she was crazy about. So just the whole idea that she would have done that is preposterous to me detective Williams had talked to almost everyone who cared about Lorraine. And they said that she was in a serious relationship and she had never been interested in casual sex. A public defender was appointed to Tim Harris to defend him on charges of first degree murder. And the state of Florida was seeking the death penalty for the trial was set for October of nineteen ninety and September the defense lost unim- as your point. The public defenders main defense strategy was Tim had been coerced. Into confessing more than anything he wanted. Tim's tape statements to detective Williams and his confession estate attorney, Bruce Colton kept out of his trial. But the tapes would be allowed in for jury to hear in the end. There was no murder trial and Friday September twenty eighth nineteen ninety Tim admitted that he had killed Lorraine Hendricks. He was allowed to plead not guilty to murder, but he did plead no contest to the first degree murder charges that saved him from the electric chair. But he was sentenced to life in prison. Then he was sent to live out the rest of his life at the Baker Correctional Institution in a loose St. Florida in the days after his arrest more than thirty people. Most of them women called the fourth Pierce office asking what to do if they're afraid to stop for a trooper especially in an isolated area who call his retold a slowdown acknowledged the trooper's presence by waving and drive at a safe speed to the nearest populated area. The motorists are also told they have. The right to ask a trooper to call for another officer. There are more than fifteen hundred troopers in the state trying to do their job with the greatest amount of integrity. Provide county sheriff Jake Miller instructed his deputies to be tolerant of motorists who might be leery and my want to drive to a populated area before stopping. But Miller also said that motor should use commonsense. And not overreact out of fear. About this. Why I just think that's that's a dumb way to put it to begin with on the one hand he's saying drive slowly get to a populated area. And then he stay don't overreact paying those speed off those countries Victor. I don't know. I mean, I did have an incident like this spec in the nineties where I was being pulled over, but I was afraid to pull over because it was dark out, and I drove for quite a ways with the police car here. And they were getting quite alarmed why wouldn't pull over and I think I overdid it maybe because when they finally pulled over the their guns drawn. So I think that might be what he means by overreact. But I see something on the Oprah show. That said, you know, there was a policeman doing this, and you shouldn't pull over for him. So I was waiting till I got to an exit, but unfortunately, it was several miles. So I can kind of understand that though. Or you have to be careful commander stand try to mitigate by saying don't react because you're afraid while trail reactor jeeze, if you just knowledge that we have this difficulty, and that we're gonna make sure that we do our utmost to patrol the areas as respond to and not harm people. Yeah. Okay. Well, one thing you can also do you can call nine one one from your car and say, can you check that? It's really a policeman. Pulling me over now that we have cell phones all the time so marry. Yeah. This was back before cell phone mid to late eighties. Okay. I'm February sixteenth of nineteen ninety two. Lorraine's husband. Rick Hendrick's, follow wrongful death suit against the state of Florida and the department of highway safety and motor vehicles. Now, Hendrick said that the Florida highway patrol failed to discover the fact that Harris had been asked to resign from another agency for improper conduct and that Harris had exhibited a pattern of socially deviant behavior demonstrating that he was psychologically, unfit to be a highway trooper assigned to road patrol duty. And the suit was heard in the last week of February of ninety four took a couple years and Hendrix, testified about their daughter Catherine's heartbreaking reaction as he told her that her mother had Di. Died attorneys for Lorraine in Catherine's estates elicited information from an expert witness that the estates had lost between five hundred eighty eight eight hundred ninety eight thousand in projected wages and household support. When Lorraine was murdered lawyers for the Hendricks family asked for three million dollars for Catherine's pain, suffering and loss. Also for the Hendricks family to win though. They would have had to prove that the state was liable and had been able to foresee what Tim Harris was going to do the six would have to believe that the Florida highway patrol's failure to act was the cause of Lorraine Hendrix murder. So the jurors found that the Florida highway patrol was not liable for having trooper Harrison the road patrol. So they didn't get anything in the lawsuit. You agree with that her finger would have been tough su- to win. Yeah. I think you're right. But I think that the earlier places that he worked for maybe shouldn't have given him a recommendation we'll there or if they had. Been able to find records from the Melbourne village. Police that showed he had been terminated. Well, they gave him a chance to resign. Right. Right. Yeah. But there should be notes about that on who knows. How public of the stuff was about his behavior with his wife, and she's a private person? She didn't tell her parents all stuff is doing to her. She probably didn't even tell her sister in the big event with the wife didn't happen until after Lorraine had already been murdered any had already been taken off the road by then. Right. So again would have been a tough one at whatever it's just incredibly sad that this happened certainly is. So there really isn't a ton of information out there on this case. There are good series of articles in the Orlando sun paper, which you can find online and also an rule wrote a story on this case in one of her books. It's one of those books that has more than one crime in them and the books called you belong to me. So I'll put a link to that book in our show notes. In case anyone is interested in. Reading that. Just a quick reminder. We have let's of true crime brewery merchandise available. If you click on shop the brewery on our website, Tigra dot com. You can click on our T public link to get your summer t shirts tank tops with your choice of true crime, brewery, designs, colors and sizes. They also have phone cases. Hoodies mugs pillows just about everything you name it. It's worth a look, I think my favorite is the lightweight hoodie 'cause you know, how a lot of hoodies real, bulky. But the lightweight hoodie is just perfect. I really enjoy that shirt. I would've fought for this quilt spring weather perfect for summer night anytime when there's just a little nip in the air. It's not too warm. Right. Our music for true crime brewery was written and produced by tristen Capelle. Just a quick reminder about team tigr aber. It's a way for you to give support to the podcast and get an extra episode each month as soon as she join you receive an Email with logging information and a link that allows you to add. Our members only show to your podcast app. Then of course, you will have access to all of our past members only episodes in addition to each new one when they come out in March, we covered the case of Robert reld, Dan, a real charmer who was actually a real monster, a rapist and emerhed or who was actually enabled we believe by his good looks. And by his wealthy family this month, recovering in Alaska case, the case of Lori Waterman, Lori was brutally murdered by two men who were friends. Maybe both were lovers are one was a lover of her teen daughter. Now, the daughter was shell had apparently told these guys that are mother was abusing her and why they decided that murder was the solution. I can only guess it's because they were idiots cruel idiots. I guess still the punishment or rather lack of punishment that Rachelle Waterman received defies reason to me in. It's quite outrageous. So you might enjoy our discussion on that case. One more thing if you've a few minutes to spare we would. Greatly. Appreciate it. If you could leave us a review on I tunes or wherever you listen more, positive reviews helps us find more people to listen to our podcast, which is a good thing. So let's move onto feedback. Now, I don't wanna bag or son desperate, but we would love to get more voicemails to leave a voicemail with your comments or case suggestions, just click on leave a voicemail on our website, Tigra dot com. And of course, we also love to get your comments and your suggestions in emails or social media messages to another way to communicate with us and other listeners is to join our true crime brewery fan discussions group on Facebook, lots of interesting things going on there all the time. So we're gonna move onto feedback. And since I've just mentioned are fan discussion page, there is something recently. That's come up on there. And it's regarding a missing child that we did a case on I'd say over a year ago Timothy Pinson over your yet. Maybe you're closer to. To been awhile. And we just kind of -ssume that Timothy was dead. But now there's a chance that he might be alive. He might have been found actually were waiting today for DNA results to show whether this boy is Timothy Pinson identifying himself as Timothy Pinson, right? Yeah. Fourteen year old boy says he's Timothy Pinson, and he's just escaped from two kidnappers that have been holding him for seven years. He's originally from Illinois was last known to be with his mother who had killed herself. Apparently in a note was left saying that Timothy was with someone, but he was safe, but he would never be found. So yesterday this fourteen year old described the two kidnappers that he had been with as to male, white bodybuilder types. One had black curly hair. A mountain dew shirt, and jeans and a spider web tattoo on his neck. The other was short in stature and had a snake tattoo on his arms, the vehicle they were operating is described as a newer model, Ford SUV bearing Wisconsin. Lates with a second row white in color and yellow transfer paint in a dent on the left BIC bumper. So apparently, he said that he escaped and kept running across the bridge into Kentucky. They had been staying at a red roof in but Timothy had no idea where so the county dispatch had contacted all surrounding agencies with a red roof in their jurisdiction, and they're checking out the motels, but they haven't found anything so residents in Newport Kentucky neighborhood, just across the Ohio river from Cincinnati held police after this boy was found wandering the streets. He'd actually approached a woman in a vehicle and ask for help. She said he looked ready and confused with bruises on his face. Now. He went missing in two thousand eleven he was just six years old. So now he would be fourteen Chris by the time people here this podcast. They'll know we don't know hopefully by this evening, they should know if it's him or not. It'd be nice that he wasn't killed will. Yes, when I'm saying, it's probably going to be nice fused their kid who's been held in captivity for. Seven years. Well, yeah, he might have gone through a lot of bad stuff might have. But I think it's amazing that he could be alive. I remember doing that case in feeling pretty certain that is mother had killed him. Yes. Rebid? So I hope that's wrong. We'll see no Kay. So do we have any voicemails today? We have a voicemail this is from Rona. She has some comments that she makes and case suggestion. Hi, my name's Ruina. I'm Scottish I supposed to say the Ivy like poor cast really love it and Elza that you say it's Joe. So that yet right into the story van to the secrecy of Everson and to the techs opinions always create on point off to say. And I have really do everything that you that you do with it. I go walking. Unfortunately, I have camp Butlin cancer the minute soul. I've been told by my daughter that ability tool woken as much as posted. We'll show you're usually in my your son. That's their says get into sin and can listen in this story. You know who else? Wanted to. I wanted to say that just that. I love it. I like reviews to mcbeal drinking my sale delayed some craft beers too. So I'm hoping that air, but I'm beta by can try some of the some of the beers that you wish it'd be difficult will some of them because obviously always lever. I am always Scotland than you don't have a Marxist seem can be usually some craft wants some Scottish wants to which are really ugly. Cricket. I've been to the masculine Boston, which it does craft ones in his really a really good place to go with your over in Boston. The is him. I really want to say, oh who had a suggestion. I love to see your take. But look to hear see her able join is a classical base than one which school system. So I would really like to hear his take on that. It's no snow been souls case either. So there's a few different suspects. I'd love to hear what you think kisses who could be so vow saints nay, but just to keep up the good. Thanks, guys. Well, thank you Rona. Yes. Thank you. Those are nice comments our end. I'm a cancer survivor. So I wish you better days ahead redo. So looked up bible. John is actually quite a bit written about a news several books actually does that somebody's name. That's what they've called him his an unidentified serial killer. I see our aims believed to have murdered three young women between nineteen sixty eight and nineteen sixty nine and Glasgow. I'll historic case I like that know each of the victims of bible, John where young brunette women between the ages of twenty five and thirty two and they all had met their murderer at the barrel land ballroom, which was a dancehall music venue in the city, the perpetrator has never been identified and the case remains unsolved despite one of the most extensive manhunts and Scottish criminal history. Where does committed by bible John with proved to be the first time in Scotland in which the crown office authorized? The publication of a composite drawing of individual suspected of murder for public viewing. And he was known as bible, John because he was repeatedly quoting from the bible and have condemned any form of adultery while in the company of his final victim, the known movements in modus operandi of convicted serial killer and rapist, Peter Tobin have led to suggestions that he might have been responsible. So we're gonna study some more. We have done one Scottish case a longtime ago, we might have. That's it. If we have done your members better than mine wasn't the father who was killing his children's wasn't. He in Scotland that much has inflator or. Yeah. I think he was that's true. Can't remember the name of it? But yeah, lovely accent to thank you for the voice mail. So that's it for voicemails. All right. So we do need more voicemails anybody has anything. I've got some interesting emails. Okay. Let's do those first Swiss from Nina, she has. Case suggestion. Okay, Nina road. Hi, guys. I'm writing you with a bit of an unusual requests. I realized that you must be swamped with case requests. So I appreciate any help. You can give this case takes place in nineteen sixty in Massachusetts. It involves a young wife and mother of two who vanished one day and hasn't been found since her name is Joan rish. There is a lot about her on the web. But I was hoping maybe you had more resources to dig further. Jones husband Martin never remarried lived in the same house and kept the same phone number in case Joan ever tried to reach him or came home. He's gone now never knowing what happened to his wife, but his children who were only four and two years of age respectively. Then are now in the early sixties and deserve answers. This case is touched me. I can't imagine having my loved one missing for so long and getting no resolution there is still time for her children, but that window is closing fast as well. Her son David seat. Seems to have had a particularly hard life and entered a nursing home really young in his fifties. I'm not sure if it has to do with his mum missing as he was only two when it happened. So he couldn't remember much about that day. The case is still open. So I appreciate any help you can offer. Sincerely, nina. So this you talked about vintage cases, this is a little older from nineteen sixty one. Yes, police went to a house in Lincoln, Massachusetts after a neighbor reported seeing blood leading from the house to the driveway. She made the discovery after young girl. Living in the house had returned from a play date to find her mother Joan rish missing several unconfirmed sightings of an apparently disoriented rish walking on nearby roads later that day were reported blood matching rish type was found smeared in the kitchen there is other evidence suggesting that she might have been abducted. Although at the time her two year old son was safely asleep in his room. Then later it was discovered that Rishard borrowed several library books about murders and disappearances including one with similarities to her own case. So this obviously led to speculation that she had staged her own disappearance. Evidence was later discovered of a troubled past which may have motivated such a scheme, and there's other theories suggesting that Joan rivers suffered in accident on a nearby construction site for the Massachusetts route one twenty eighth freeway and she's buried under concrete somewhere there. The case remains unsolved. See if we can find more on that two cases to unsolved mysteries. Nary good. Like to look into that one. Our next Email is from Haley, and it's a case suggestion. This is the honor killing of. Yes. Winder car sit to how badly did. I it's good to me. Well, you probably don't know much better than I I was going to say, okay. All right. But anyway, this was someone who was killed in June of two thousand an Indo Canadian beautician who was murdered in an honor killing she was kidnapped tortured and killed on the orders of her mother and her uncle. That just blows me away. You gonna think we have a book on that too? Those are very very very recent ops. She grew up in Canada and worked in Canada as beautician as you said in travels back to India fell in love with a guy who is the wrong guy. This is not the person that her mother wanted her to marry she went and married him. And then was living in in Canada. While her husband was in India, her mother, basically header imprisoned in her house. She escaped returned to India to be reunited with her husband. They were both captured by people in India. He was beaten she was tortured and killed, and then there's this whole deal about extradition of the mother to India for who charges is it's a mess. Well, interesting case. So I wanna look into that. You bought a book about that? I'm going to okay. Our next case suggestion is from an unnamed person you're this person wrote to ask about looking at a murder. She didn't want her name or any information spoken of. Okay. So we didn't she wanted to the murder of ROY shoots ler by Rosemary vonda car to be investigated. So what happened here this? This is I'm going to condense this for you. So this is about a guy named ROY should slur. Who does a longtime resident of less Vegas whose wife had died, and he was taken up with Rosemary Vanda car, and she was sentenced for strangling him and killing him. And her son was supposed to be a helper in the murder. So is this for money. I believe I'll type so it's very unusual for a woman to strangle a man, isn't it? Sure of where I wanted to look at that. So they said that this woman had a pretty disturbing affect about her your shoes kind of crazy. So she was found guilty think of second degree murder. Anyway, she was sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole. But then Ovide where the crime occurred has another thing called age enhancement. So if you kill someone over age of sixty that's a second charge. So she got another twenty years in prison for the agent Hanson. So that's pretty much in prison for life. Then most likely, okay, that's interesting. I've never heard of the age in handsome mover. I thought those fascinating. So that's just because they're thinking if you're over sixty you're more vulnerable. I think so I have heard of laws similar to that about children. If you kill. A young child. Right. We've heard that. Or we have. Yes, time someone's looking out for seniors. I know it's rough. So we also have a case suggestion from Tammy Tammy wrote. Hi, Jilin, dick. I wanna reach out until you what a huge fan. I am becoming the more. I hear the more. I love you to your infancy and kindness in telling horrific stories in keeping it completely human is wonderful, keep up the great work. I'm going to add to your growing list of case suggestions, the murder of Laurie show in Lancaster county Pennsylvania on December twentieth. Nineteen ninety one. There was a group of teenagers. One of them was pregnant who killed Lori. I've been listening to all different true crime podcast that I have yet to hear this story featured I would love to hear your take on the case. Thanks again for great content and making my workday fly by thank you. Tammy most letter. Yeah, very nice. So the murder of Laurie show. What do we know about this other than what she told us? Her worry was murdered in nineteen ninety one. She was a sixteen year old sophomore in high school. Her body was discovered in her home by her mother Hazel her throat had been cut and she'd been beaten classmates, Lisa Michelle Lambert, Tabitha, buck and Lawrence young men were charged with her murder. So this is kind of a mean girls type of thing, which we've done a few of those cases in the past. And we've done three that are similar owners complicated, love triangle, also. Yeah. So and this elect to talk about so write that down to it suggestion. Yeah. The list is getting lot. We've got some good suggestions. I appreciate it will. Thank you, everyone for your suggestions. Do you anything to add ticky? No, I it seems like we've done a few cases recently where the warning signs galore that the murderer shouldn't be allowed to be doing what he was doing. What do we do about? That though. Really? It's a tough one exactly because we were talking last week we had someone right into feedback about. Swango and another doctor from the doctor death podcast, which I haven't listened to yet. So we were talking about how physicians how a lot of what they do gets covered up and how they can get away with a lot. Now, we're talking about a policeman your though, it's just scary. Because you really do put your trust in a policeman pulls you over on a dark road at night. You're really believe in that. They're just a policeman. Yeah. You have to trust them. You're so it's scary. Certainly is. Yeah. Guys. See next time. All right. Thank you everyone for listing. And we will see you next time at the quiet end. But by by.