3 Episode results for "Courtney Tanner"
Savage Love Episode 705
"You're listening to the micro version of the savage love cast. Www DOT savage love casts dot Com. Relationship is Cova nineteen sexually transmissible. That was the first question. We tackled novel. Corona virus began to upend our lives and we asked. We didn't wait for you guys to ask us. We got experts on the phone and put the question to them right away because we knew people would want to know the answer. I wanted to know the answer and the answer was basically. Well Duh of course loco. Vid Nineteen isn't classified as a sexually transmitted infection. You can catch it if someone breathes or cops sneezes near you. The virus can also survive on surfaces. So if you get close enough to someone who has it and may not be showing symptoms as most people who have it are awesome dramatic if you get close enough for a or B or Pim intercourse beans vagina. Pearson Peterson mouth or Emo V. Malcolm China or as on face hell if you get close enough to someone just to kiss them. You're going to be within sixty eight of them whether the virus was present in semen or vaginal secretions wasn't yet known. We were told that it hadn't been found in those bodily fluids but it wasn't clear anyone had looked for it in those bodily fluids but there was no question really that sex could transmit the corona virus. Which is why. I'm a little worried about people who read the headline in the Salt Lake City Tribune last Friday with out bothering to read the story. That headline you cannot transmit corona virus through sex. A New University of UTAH. Study Finds Courtney Tanner reports on two studies. One tested the semen intestines of thirty four men. In Wuhan China all the men at tested positive for the virus but none of the samples of semen of the balls showed signs of corona virus. All thirty four. The subjects had mild cases and the sample size was small. But the results were significant. No virus detected in their spunk or their junk. Another study looked at ten women with severe cases of cove nineteen infection a smaller but sicker sample size. And no sign of. The virus was founded there vaginal secretions. Either if I may digress for a moment spunk splurge come Jisr Baby Better. So many Avakian instantly understandable slang terms from jacket but always seemed to have her badge. Secretions is badge. Secretions is not right. Anyway it's kind of a paradox unlike Zeka and a bola which are present and semen and vaginal secretions and can be transmitted sexually. The novel Corona Virus according to these studies isn't present and Semen. Vaginal Secretions and technically can't be transmitted sexually. But you're definitely going to get infected. You get close enough to someone who has it to have sex with them. Tanner makes that clear in her story. Ten paragraphs into her story the virus can be spread through other intimate contact. Which is why we have to stay six feet away from others when possible. It almost certainly would be transmitted if you're kissing someone it's advise them. That partners wanting to have sex do so only. If they're already staying in the same household yes that is what's advised. That's what we've been advising people from the start all along. Fuck the people you live with unless you live with your parents in which case you know don't but basically these two studies haven't changed anything that I worry and worrying is what I do best at. I worry that won't be the takeaway for anyone who just read the headline. You cannot transmit corona virus through sex and we know. Most people only read the headlines. Perhaps I'm being an alarmist. Anyone who listens to the show regularly is familiar with the self-serving rationalizations horny. People are prone to engage in Dick. Full thinking twaddell thinking it gets us in trouble which is why we need to keep reminding people even if the virus is in present in. Pearl Jam or Agile Secretions. Sex with new partners can definitely transmit corona virus at least until someone opens that chain of glory holes power washed and disinfected between each use. But I talked about on the show all right coming up on. Today's show on the micro free edition of the savage. Love cast. Dr Daniel West strike is back to give us an update on you guessed it. The Corona virus and the Magna edition of the savage love Cast Caitland. Boden from the bad S. Army joins us to talk about revenge. Porn where are we now in the battle against it less tons of accused tons of my as all that coming up on today's show? This episode savage cast is brought to you by talk space online therapy that makes it easy to get extra mental health support for one hundred dollars off your first month. Go to talk. Space DOT COM and use the offer code savage. This episode of the savage love cast is sponsored by. Omg Yes a website where you explore the latest science about women's sexual pleasure. Through fun honest videos get more understanding more pleasure and more tools for an even happier relationship. Get a discount on newly released season two at. Omg Yes dot com slash savage. That's omg yes dot com slash savage support for today's show support. We are very grateful for comes from stamps. Dot COM WITH STAMPS DOT COM. You can access all the amazing services at the Post Office right from your desk in your own home. Twenty four hours a day seven days a week. Just click print mail and you are done. It could not be easier and right now. Use Savage for the special offer includes up to fifty five bucks worth of free postage digital scale and a four week trial. Do not wait go to stamps. Dot Com and before you do anything else. Click on the microphone at the top of the homepage on type in savage stamps. Dot Com enter S. A. V. A. G. E. So my boyfriend and I have been together for about twelve years and the sex is still very satisfying. Fun If not maybe a little perfunctory but during our quarantine. Something delightful happened. We live in a little tiny cabin. Took off in the woods. We're pretty fortunate to have some space available to US outside of House and the other day. My boyfriend said he was going to the Garden. Which is predictable. He's the Gardener. This spring the great time of year for him but when. I went into the kitchen and looked out the kitchen window which looks over the Garden. I saw him just. Wanking went off over the ASPARAGUS off in the corner of the garden instantly. I got so horny. I don't know that I've ever had a reaction like that. It was just delightful. I rubbed one out in about thirty seconds and now every time. My boyfriend says that he's going to the garden. I eagerly jump up and run to the kitchen and look out the window and hope to catch him winking it. I haven't seen it again sense but boy. It's an easy way to get me off any more. I'll tell him about it eventually but for now. I'm just enjoying this little secret spy game that I've got going on. We're opening every show the next few weeks with quarantine sex stories. If you have one you'd like to share please give us a call. Share your quarantine sex stories and hey guys step up all of our quarantine sex stories so far have been from women and straight women. We'd love to hear some queer quarantine sex stories some stories from dudes. Hi Dan. I'm calling with a question about my fiance. We have been engaged for about a year and a half and had known each other for about three years for them and the issue is that he seems to not be able to stay off dating APPs and I truly don't believe that he has met up with anybody from these APPs are gone on any and I'm actually pro open relationships and totally of the fact that every feel hot and have other people think that they're hot. The problem is that he refuses to tell me when he gets on that. So basically all I've ever wanted a heads up because each time that he has gotten on the APPs random people have told me that he is on the APP so the first time I was talking about our relationship to one of my friends and then I learned that he had asked one of her friends out on a date and then ghosted on her. Which is a shitty thing to do. THE SECOND TIME. I've found out immediately. After we got engaged the he was talking to random people in line to them about being an early ship. Which is also a shitty thing to do and the third time Which happened yesterday. Was that a stranger posted his tinder profile on instagram. And Tags me in it to alert me to the fact that he is on dating APPs each of these times he has told me that if he would get back on the APP he would give me a heads up so I would just know but honestly the fact that he keeps lying about doing it and that strangers are telling me is kind of humiliating at this point? I just don't know if I should stay in this relationship and Mary. This person who I don't think has actually been fucking other people but the fact that he can't just be honest with me about something that I would be totally okay with him doing as long as I get ahead. That just feels like a really big red flag. I'm curious how the heads up thing would work in practice. If he's getting on dating APPS and lying to people we talked to east talk to your this expression lot. Fakes and flakes are a lot of fakes and flakes on dating. Apps and people lied about being single. People stole other people's pictures and they just wanted the attention reformation if they use their own pictures but they tension of actually meeting up and they would string people along not quite cat fishing just you know interacting and then ghosting like he did to that person that you know. It's made a date and just ghosted. Because he no intention following through fakes and flakes. Your fiance is one of those people if he let you known advance. Hey I'm GONNA fire up. Tinder bumbler go fish or whatever and get online and talk to some people and then flake on them. You're still potentially going to hear from the people that he is doing this to if he's presenting himself as single if he's being dishonest if he flakes on people and then because he's using his own name or some photos able to trace him back and figure out who his fiancee is. You may still wind up feeling humiliated in the ways you have worked may wind up being tagged into instagram posts or hearing from friends of friends that he hit on. So I don't know if the heads up is the solution that you would like to be. You can say if you're tagged into someone's Instagram Post. About what an asshole your fiance is. Oh I know I knew. It's not yeah. Of course he's online. I know he's online lying to people and being a deck. That's the problem lying to people and being a deck. And he's lying to you and he's lying to these women and just being addict so the question then becomes not like whether there is or isn't a heads opera you get advance notice about when he's lying and being in tech the question is do you. WanNa marry a lying deck. Why there's always a little fudging in relationships and I don't think a relationship is a deposition. I don't think any romantic committed relationship. It could survive the individuals having the power to depose each other and force honest answers out of each other at all times. This level of lying and deceit speaks to a fault or flaw in your partner's character that over the long term is probably gonNA manifest itself in other ways that will drive you crazy and then you will curse today you married or perhaps scrambled your DNA together with someone who couldn't get a grip on why he behaved in this way. Maybe if he still wants to marry you you can leverage that to get him into therapy where he can talk to somebody about why he is doing this to women and someone who isn't his fiancee can walk them through. Why that's not okay. And a problem generate a lot of shit in his life that he's not going to enjoy including shit like being dumped at the altar and he might change his ways or learn how to do better or find some other way to seek the affirmation. And I think you're right on the. Yeah he's seeking affirmation. You wants not erotic affirmation that he is attracted me wants to feel like he can pull. He wants to flirt. There are ways to do that and get everything. He's getting out of these interactions. Honestly he can get on dating APPs for partnered people who have permission from their significant others or spouses to beat on these dating APPs for partnered people he can not fucking lie. He cannot toy with other people's emotions and ghost on them half the show sometimes as people complaining about how painful it is to be goes to people making they should make and they know better but they do. They make a kind of emotional investment invest their hopes and someone that they've met online that they have a good feeling about and then when the person ghosts it's a rejection and its rejection. That's it can be extremely painful and it can make you hesitant to engage with anyone else online going forward because some jerk was asked to you and that hesitancy to engage going forward with other people might deprive you of the relationship that you could've should've maybe wanted to be if you weren't so burnt by so many fakes and flakes ghosting on you. When I marry this guy under these circumstances probably not would I leave the guy no I I would do is try to leverage his desire presumably to be married to me into getting his ass therapy through. Your boyfriend needs to go with this shit too therapy. Omg Yes dot com. Is the website devoted to sexual pleasure in partnership with Indiana University and Kinsey Institute? Researchers they've asked tens of thousands of women. What was the one discover? You've made that really made your pleasure better than they've found the patterns in those discoveries the patterns and those answers the physical techniques psychological techniques the way of guiding partners and they've distilled all those discoveries all those patterns down put on a website. Omg Yes dot com. These discoveries have brought to life as videos animation data visualizations at whole lexicon of what feels good and what works. We recently got a call from a listener. Who wanted to know how much she loves? Omg Yes she said she took the plunge and got omg yes and that it was the perfect time to do it. She was really happy without. Mg US and really happy about having heard about it here on the love cast. We didn't ask her to send us this testimony. She just did. And this makes me happy to know that one of our advertisers is helping people right now. This shelter in place. Time really is the perfect opportunity to learn and explore your and your Partner's pleasure sample at O. M. G. S. dot com slash savage and my listeners. Also get a discount when you sign up at. Omg DOT com slash savage. Hey gone this is your sexual friends in the southwest. My question is about frequent breakup. I'm in my late thirties. And I'm in the best relationship I've ever had. It's the first time I've had the TRIFECTA. Like him. Love Him and wants to fuck him and we do almost daily. He's also seventeen years older but we just by on the same channel. Everything is great until we hit a roadblock and then both of our past history and trauma fuck up our communication and we break up. I was raised in a cult and I'm trying not to suppress my motion. After twenty years of transcendental meditation. His childhood had verbal abuse and he shuts down with even a raise and voice. We've broken up now three times in seven months but I swear some of these issues where legit an orgy gone wrong and the pen democ massively shifted everything we are now likely that couple who makes our friends cringe when we tell them. We've broken up again. I also believe that. My hormone cycle is a factor. Here and I'm willing to start monitoring back. My other ideas are to never pick up over texter email and if but to argue in person but to write things out if we have to a boy that increase in bogle volume at throws him off. Do you have any other suggestions on how to save the best relationship I've ever had? This is a little unorthodox suggestion. I might have to wait until after the quarantine lifted but if you are partner has a problem with raised voices. He could move in with me and Terry for awhile. Little exposure therapy. We're always raising our voices screaming and yelling in our house. It might make screaming and yelling. You do look trifling by comparison Frequent breakup can be exhausting for friends. Who have to be the support system or listen patiently and spoon empathy all over you every time you break up with the same person for the same reason. Eventually you exhaust your friends patients. They want you to shit or get off that face. They want you to end that relationship once and for all rather than cycling in and out of that relationship and kicking up a lot of drama you know we make demands on our friends when were heartbroken. But there's only so many times we can make that particular demand on all of our friends about the same person for the same reason before our friends. Tell us what we really need to hear which is end this once and for all and for good you don't WanNa end this once and for all and prog- because you like him love him and you WanNa fuck him the TRIFECTA. So what do you do well? It seems to me that you both perhaps maybe rationalizing your bad behavior. In the moment you're fighting style the way you speak to each other hints of breaking up by text message by pointing to your past traumas your life. Being raised in a cult verbal abuse suffered. And it seems to me that you guys. Maybe you need a little cognitive behavioral therapy can help you make a decision to treat each other a behave differently with your partners or anyone else where you make a conscious decision not to be dicks to each other in exactly the way you both know by now will trigger each other. So you don't raise your voice because you know what that does to him and he doesn't do whatever it is he. Does that. Sandpapers your cult issues or make you feel self conscious about transcendental meditation or whatever it is he does when you fight. And if you can't do that if you can't get a grip on whatever it is that you do or he does that sats. Both of you often leads to another break-up then you should make your next break up your last being home so much especially during a crisis like this can be a breeding ground for anxiety without the stability of our normal daily routines. The mind can fill with worst case scenarios. What if and worries you may feel lonely but you know what you are not alone. We are all adjusting to this new normal talks based on line. Therapy is more committed than ever to expanding access to support for anyone who is struggling with talk space. You get the support of a licensed therapist from the safety of your home and you can reach out from your device. Whenever something is on your mind you can send your therapist taxed audio picture or video messages from your phone or your computer. Twenty four seven as much as you need to. Everything happens within talk spaces secure platform all on your schedule talks based matches you with a licensed therapist. 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Make sure to use the code savage to get one hundred dollars off your first month and show your support for this show that savage at talk space dot com down a fifty year old father of two teenagers living in the northeast after twenty two year marriage. My divorce was recently finalized after a year and a half separation. The time of separation. I began dating in enjoyed the new adventures. Six months into that men fell in love with a wonderful. When we've been exclusive for a little over a year. Now she is beautiful fit funny so sexy smart very kind hearted. I didn't know some like her existed. She's a great mom to her teenagers. And has been divorced for over a decade G G G G minute kinky dom tendencies both easily having the best sex lives it traction. The connection is incredible. I can see as very happily spending the rest of our lives together. Here's where I'm struggling. I'm drawn to other women and for the first time in my life at least I'm recognizing being hit on by some pretty damn hot women. It's a little weird. It's new to me frankly. Exhilarating Allay bloomer in many ways. It's such an ego boost for this to be happening at my age intellectually. I know that I would unlikely have kind of connection with them. That have with. My girlfriend have not acted nor betrayed her. Trust yet I still feel the urge to explore in. It's growing Eddie of disappointing. Her and hurting her feelings. Very uncomfortable for me thought about suggesting an open relationship but my girlfriend s conventional wishes for ours so she will be comfortable with that. I've never vision. This is a problem for me as I was able to manage things and be a loyal married man for twenty plus years in an up and down marriage that had infrequent and boring sex now. I'm very happy. Unbelie desirable and conflicted as faulk helped me down. So you were six months into your separation when you met this woman and he basically you describe kind of buyer's remorse except that's a pretty awesome house not to objectify person by comparing to the large inanimate object that is home. She's hot she's really into you. You've begun to explore your tendencies. And she is up for that hopefully as into it and excited about it as you are and that's a lot to walk away from for the promise of perhaps some decent sacks with attractive women that may not be as good sex that you may not feel as good about women who may not be into the DOM sub thing the way. Your current girlfriend is you know. There's the sure bet that is your current girlfriend and you're thinking about doing is disappointing. Her walking away from her potentially four t to gamble to gamble on other women. You're not the only person out there who faces this dilemma. You're in a relationship. It's a committed relationship your partner. You assume it doesn't sound like you've had these conversations in any depth requires monogamy or expects Managua. Means a lot of people out there who believed their partners require expect monogamy and their partners. Believe the same about them but they've never risked having a conversation about it. You Might WanNa have that conversation. She might surprise you but if she requires monogamy okay well. The world is full of people who've made monogamous commitments. Who might be happier in an open relationship? I prefer open relationship. But monogamy is the price of admission. They're willing to pay to be with the person that they are in that monogamous relationship with. I think it's a reasonable price of the mission before you to pay at fifty to be with the woman who is Super Hot. Who Superintendent and that. You're compatible with. Those are pretty major so I would encourage you to not feel conflicted about your attraction to other women. Of course you're going to be attracted other all. People monogamous relationships are at times attracted to other people's intensely so monogamous commitment. As you WANNA fuck other people it means you refrain from fucking other people. You're capable of keeping an honoring that monogamous commitment. I think particularly for this person. You're allowed to feel your feelings and it might be the way into the conversation that you met her and committed to her quickly. That you didn't have you know. Come spring after your divorce. And if she's emotionally secure it secure in the relationship she might be able to help you grieve. That at least acknowledge the sacrifice. You may not. I think that's important. I think when people Astra monogamous commitment from someone who might be happier the non monogamous commitment that they should acknowledge that that person is paying the price of mission price admission to be with them. One final thought you say that you have tendencies that she's gee-gee and she enjoys them. I didn't elaborate your tendencies. Are sometimes that just means calling the shots in the bedroom and being a little rough but sometimes that means something more elaborate and Bedia semi a lot of couples who get involved in the MC make allowances for some play mutually agreed to perhaps limited play with others. Sometimes it turns us a bomb to see their downplay with others. That's an avenue that you guys can continue to explore. That might open up the relationship a bit in a way that makes you feel more content in the relationship down the road. But it's certainly something you can have a conversation with her about now. Of course depending again on the style of Diaz play that you two are engaged. The last thing anyone wants to do right now is go to the post office and these days so many small businesses need to operate by mail. 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I'M GONNA REA- that can be cure with medicine. I was wondering since we're doing all these isolation for corona virus if you were possible that everybody before star who cannot begin. They could get desperate to see. Could Kate this disease goes in. Nobody has been the virus doesn't exist. I wanted just thinking. Since we're all isolated are not who can about the moment I mean in these schools people slowly? We could eliminate these other diseases at the same time joining me by phone to help tackle this question. Dr Daniel West superstar epidemiologist associate professor of epilepsy in fact at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill. Dr West. Right. Thank you so much for coming back on the show absolutely. Thanks for having me on them. So this hadn't occurred to me. I'm surprised the thing that had occurred to me was that perhaps we may be entering the Golden Age of glory hole. Soon we're glory holds the might make a comeback but let's set that aside. Is this an opera? You know if people are staying home for weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks months perhaps and honoring social distancing physical distancing not hooking up with random just having sex with the people that live with those people either sex partners. Can we possibly seize this opportunity to eradicate committee acephalous gonorrhea show it's a really interesting question And it's one that I and epidemiologist I know have been thinking about at least a little bit and so i. I think it's very unlikely that we're going to radically any sexually transmitted infections. Because they're literally getting all. The numbers down to zero doesn't seem realistic. Especially because not. Everyone is perfectly physically distancing right. Now that's ride we might get close to eradicating civilised but Republican governors that. They're gonNA make sure that that doesn't happen botch please. Don't blow a Republican governor. That's GONNA screw everything up Karavas of this opportunity. But I do think that there's an interesting opportunity here around Around lowering the prevalence of these FBI's with targeted treatment and testing. I mean there are a couple of there are a couple of things. One is that it's the connectivity of sexual networks That is really integral to the spread of. Ti's we know this from decades of research especially around HIV that the more connected a network is the faster sti spread through. It and I think that's pretty intuitive. And so suddenly. We're in a moment we're all the networks have been broken apart into little pods and so it seems like a really good moment to test and treat and in fact some The CDC and the Department of Health and Human Services have have issued some guidance around looking for innovative ways to test and treat people. I believe California started offering home testing For Ti's Although I don't know how widely available that is or how widely it's being taken up. And so I do think there's a real opportunity. Here to drop the prevalence of gusty is the problem. Of course that state health departments are busy right now. Trump's dealing with this other pandemic we have going on and so the resources are really difficult to find. I think the caller is really onto something. And maybe the best way to take this advice is that I would really encourage everybody to go get tested. Once things start to open up and before people get back out there and start hooking up again please go get tested and treated for any of the guys that you may have and not know Were you sort of reconnect? All of these sexual and social upper. It seems to me that you know that that that lag between exposure in the onset of symptoms is when people are most likely to pass a sexually transmitted infection along. And if you know your home for the more than ten days roughly it takes for committee syphilis. Gonorrhea symptoms to manifest themselves. And you're not having sex with anybody in that window where Y- people who aren't monsters. Who have sex with people even though they know they have connery and done anything about it. But if you don't have sex with anybody in that window where you didn't know and then your symptoms manifest. It seems to me that a lot of people are going to be so self motivated as to contact their primary care physicians if they have one and perhaps you know through little telemedicine. Get the prescriptions that they might need to to treat themselves that it's important to remember that a lot of Sti's Arecibo dramatic something like up to seventy five percent of people with committee and maybe a symptomatic at least for long periods of time. It's less true. I think gonorrhoea although I don't want to generalize too far I'm a little bit out over my skis in terms of my specific knowledge. But I do know that that. For example there's lots of symptomatically media out there and so that's not necessarily someone's GonNa know by the The isolation period and so two. You know this might be a really good opportunity for people to like. Tell a prescription for preps when it's ready when a if if they're someone who wants to use prep and wants to protect themselves not way so that's ready when they get back out there on the sexual marketplace the best advice would be for everyone who has isolated to go and get a full sti screening when this is over and then if you do have an sti at that moment get treated before you jump back in to the pool. Yeah I think so. I think there's a real good opportunity here to To sort of drop the population prevalence all at once. If if a lot of people do that while we have you on the phone and wanted to check in with you about this little pan-demic we're having I tried it. Your jealous with your time at the basically at the beginning we we talk to very early on. I think there were fewer than three thousand deaths. At that point. We now to more than forty three thousand deaths. Today we spoke Probably be up over fifty by the time we we broadcast. Are we flattening? The curve is what we're doing working. And how concerned are you about the pushback about the rallies up to Reopen America? That you know this has become a partisan issue. How worried are you about a second wave kicking off just when it looks like we might be having an impact by all staying home? We've been doing. Yeah it it does seem know. All of the early evidence makes it look like we are flattening the curves through our physical distance thing although you know. There's always this lag which makes it harder to see this. This stuff between when the physical distancing happens when you expect to see curve start to flat out drop and I know that's frustrating to a lot of people And I know that people have real concerns about prolonged isolation but I am. I am very nervous about the push. Faulk it's sort of a psychological trap. You people are saying literally saying we were told that one hundred thousand two hundred thousand people might die by now but only forty or fifty have so all of this was for nothing. We didn't need to do this rather than we've done. This one hundred and fifty thousand people aren't dead. Yeah the two comparisons that crop up online about this is that Look this parachute has slowed my rate of descent. I can take it off and and you know that's a fine analogy as far as it goes but it's not perfect and and maybe the analogy. I like better is one of eventually -biotics you know you're prescribed a ten day course of antibiotics and you're told to finish that whole course and it's really hard to keep taking those antibiotics after day is when you feel entirely better but it's really important that people finish their courses of antibiotics and this seems like a decent analogy to where we are now. Yes it's it seems to be working so far but that's not a not a reason to let up the reason it's important people finish their core. Semantic says you may feel better but the bacteria so president your body and it can come roaring back if you don't keep it up. Finish the course of antibiotics. This virus could just come roaring back if we if we let out and you know. There's there's still a lot we don't know right we. We don't know exactly how infectious disease in since we last spoke there's been a new estimate of the basic reproductive number of this disease. That's around five point seven which is much higher than the two point. Five two point six that we were thinking it was and that might be right. That might be wrong. Data's still coming in science takes a while. We still don't know what the infection fatality rate is. There's so much we don't know here But we do know is physical distancing seems to be working to flatten the curves and I. This is given how much we don't know. This is not the time to let up on the thing that we are. Quite sure is working. So you're not attending any of these reopen America rallies yourself I'm not leaving my house except to go grocery shopping once a week nor am I am one last question they. There's been a lot of talk about you know whether someone develops antibodies. If you had it in your symptoms weren't so bad there may be some people didn't even realize they had it and who may now be. The theory is hopefully immune and if we tested more people and found out who had had it or and was immune from those people. Would you know be be safe for them to leave? The House may be go into a bar. But there's also a question of whether somebody can get this again about reinfection. Is there any more data about reinfection? This is one of the big areas in which things aren't Entree well-known been a couple initial records about people developing antibodies or not Offering Texan. But I think it's much too early to know this. Yeah and we certainly don't know anything about the longer term Immunity that that might result from an infection. And that's just I think it's GonNa take more time unfortunately This is a really hard situation because it's it's a real burden to ask people the physically distance themselves themselves but it is incredibly important that we do so anything else. You'd like to share with our listeners. And your fans among my listeners. Who Are Legion appearance everything else? People should know before we let you go. You want them to bear my besides. Please maintain physical distancing. It's working which is why there isn't two hundred thousand people dead right now. Yeah well I I guess I guess the only other thing to say is In my role as a I believe you. You named me. Dr Bummer. Remind me It's it's GonNa be hard for a while and so people need to really prepare themselves for things to be hard and that sort of quote back to normal unquote for a while It's probably not gonna be a normal summer. Be quite a long time before we get to go to big summer music festivals again. It's a lot of things are not going to get back to normal for for quite a long time and I think psychologically preparing ourselves for that unfortunate reality is really important. That's why they call you. Doctor Bummer Daniel WESTPAC Associate Professor Pepperdine University of North Carolina Chapel. They you so much for making time for us again so appreciate it. You're terrific thank you so much for having them. Hey Dan big fan of your show for years calling in with a scenario that I just appreciate your take on and kind of etiquette. Follow up so just now. I was. I went to the grocery store to get some some stuff. I was walking back and this transsexual person. A man turned woman kind of went by me on. A scooter said something at headphones in. I didn't really hear. She came back around took the headphones and she asked me. Are you goddess or Princess and I said Oh definitely got us Pretty confident on that one. And she goes she goes. I'm a sub and I said Oh. Cool Lake sounds good and she goes. Since you're goddess is it okay if can I can. I put one hundred dollars at your feet and worship you. And I'm just Kinda like on the corner on the street like kind of been in quarantine mode for a while. The days are getting monotonous. This is by far the most interesting interaction. I've had in a little while. I also respect the guts. It takes to approach someone on the street like that so I said well. I don't know we'll make your day. We'll like really like be a great thing for you. And she goes like yeah and so I said okay like if I don't have a lot of time but sure why not so. She wants to go into like a really secluded part of a nearby alley and to me like I started. I was like oh I don't know like I don't really want to be in public because this person is you know. Good like footer. So Taller than me and definitely probably stronger. I don't know I didn't feel comfortable being totally secluded with them. So we're kind of in the sally but it's clearly not as like removed from the street as she would like. But she shows me like this chastity belt and I see like an outline of a penis and she starts putting a blanket down and asked me how much money I want and I didn't realize she was trying to pay me thought that the money had to be like on the ground or something. I don't know what I thought but anyway the whole thing was just a bit much for me so I was like no disrespect but like this. I think this is just a little bit more than I could kind of bargained for and also I need to get home for this conference call which was true. And she's like okay. Okay like Can I can. I just buy your socks and I said sure so. I took my socks off and like gave them to her and she gave me a twenty and so then I was leaving. And she's like. Hey what's your instagram. Was your phone number. Can I text? You GotTa call you and I was like I was like. I'm sorry like this isn't really my thing. I didn't give her my number and she was very persistent. And I said listen like goddesses leave when they wanNA leave and I said you have a good one left and then I put the twenty in like a like a bench where Some homeless people tend to be. You know I really think this person didn't mean me any harm but I I wasn't super comfortable and I try and be trans positive but I don't know if I was kind of rude I don't know if like basically what's the right way to handle something like that like should. I just have not interacted with this person at all. As soon as I found out they were seeing me. Is like a street dominatrix and some form. I have no judgment towards that. It's just like if I wanted to be a dominatrix. I would have been dominatrix. Is that wrong on their part to be like asking people on the street for this. What's the what's the savage love cast? Take on the etiquette around this kind of situation. The savage love take on. This is not to people on the street for sexual encounters that there are spaces people enter identify entering. They're giving you permission to approach them. The public play party in a dungeon. Maybe this person could have approached you to inquire about worshipping. You're buying your socks if you were on fete life. That's you sending out a signal to the world that you may be approached about these sorts of things that you are inviting this kind of attention at least these kinds of inquiries walking down the street from the grocery store in the middle of pandemic when people are supposed to be staying six feet the fuck away from each other. You didn't invite this. It wasn't okay that this woman on the scooter approached you in this way. And I'm sorry I'M GONNA get in trouble but I'm GONNA go ahead and say it. It's hard not to see gendered. Shed at play here Trans Woman. She's a woman totally respect that Trans Women some of them. When they realized their women they come out as transgender women. Women Trans Women are women. Women are grads but they were socialized as males and not all trans women are able to shed that socialization or can even perceive it in some cases and the way that this woman behaved the ways that she treated you in. That moment sounds a lot like an asshole. Creepy dude moving on a girl that he saw inside the grocery store that he thought was cute. Not Miss `gendering this person comparing this person's actions to the action that we typically associate with men and you don't want to be transphobic and you won't be understanding about the Violence Trans Women Face in about the discrimination Trans Women Face but you're giving this particular trans woman the benefit of doubts and handwringing image. She doesn't deserve. She acted in a very sexually predatory manner that made you feel unsafe. And then you had a gendered response you were doing what. Women are socialized to in an interaction. Like that you're attempting to de Escalate. You were deferring. You're not wanting to say no while still sort of around the edges trying to game out what's going on so that you could protect yourself for instance when you refuse to go further into that alley then you felt comfortable going to that but he still went to the edges of that alley with this person and that made you feel uncomfortable so the etiquette here is all really fucked up what. She did what she asked to be. Was Not fucking okay if it was a dude asking those things have you in that moment. I think you'd have an easier. Time recognizing how not okay what this woman did to you at that moment was and I think you'd have an easier time recognizing that your own conditioned response to this kind of energy to this kind of request. Was you being set up by the culture because of your gender you being made more vulnerable to this kind of predation by the culture because you were socialized defer and deescalate not say no in a situation like this with a man not saying this person was a man but you defaulted to that kind of gendered. Shit so yeah just officially you. Don't ask people on the street up there. Goddesses are princesses. You don't ask to worship their feet. You don't ask to buy their socks. Don't show them your chastity belt with your penis visible inside it. You just don't do these things with people on the street. It takes guts to approach someone. Yeah it does. It does take guts to approach someone. Somebody's gotTa make the first move but it is not okay to approach someone at a time and a space where they aren't inviting the approach. That's not guts at work that's ass hole ary at work if you were at that dungeon. You're at that play party. You were on fat life. You're in a you know a bar where it's understood that people are there to socialize and mix and somebody approached you that takes guts it takes guts because it sucks to be rejected and to be the person who initiates contact in a moment like that is to be the person taking the greater risk of rejection being hurt being shot down. That takes guts. What this person was up to at this woman did that wasn't guts that was asshole read. That was predation pressure and that was just not fucking okay. That was fucking creepy. Awful shut and it doesn't sound like you were traumatized by it but I bet she's pulled these exact same moves on other women who were traumatized by it who no longer feel safe going. Wherever was they were when this woman rolled up to them on her. Scooter sell now. Okay what she did was not okay and hope. If you're ever put in a situation like this in the future you'll say no quicker you'll get to that. No that you ultimately gave her faster all right before we get a response calls. Let's read your tweets. Mary Naomi tweets listening to savage cast episode seven three regarding guest. Aaron Gibson telling fake Dan. Savage dating lesbians equals getting eaten out. Sorry to break to you but there are plenty of lesbians who hate going down on women just like. There's plenty of gay guys who don't enjoy anal sacs thank you. For Writing Mary Naomi and noted Kendra holiday tweets fake. Dan Savage the store you told about your dining room table was one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard. Come out of your mouth. Is that posted? As many assay anywhere I could share it gave such hope would love to see a pick of it. Be Do deep dive on my instagram. You will see a photo of my great grandparents dining room table and a little more than I wrote about. I also wrote a little bit about that. Dining room table in the commitment the book I wrote about marriage and family and finally Danny Danger tweets just turned on savage love CASS that Hump Film Festival be streaming this spring. I've gone the past two years and I am thrilled that I'll be able to see it another year despite the quarantine. Thanks to all the filmmakers who to allow your films to stream you are the real quarantines if you want me to read your tweet on an upcoming episode of the Savage Webcast be sure to include the Hashtag savage love cast and now your response calls. Hi Dan I'm responding to the caller whose boyfriend seems to like I'm lying about sleeping with other people and I kinda think you're really off the mark on this one. If they made an agreement that they are going to be honest with each other about who they're sleeping with and he's doing it anyway Tonker that's cheating in my books and especially in the middle of pandemics. She really has a right to know where her boyfriend is getting intimate you know if he's bringing STI's and corona virus back in his home she has every right to know that To protect yourself and and keep yourself safe so I really think there should be some some more explicit discussions about Sexual Health and health in general if they are gonNa go this D- Adt route gets the message for the color on seven. Oh four from that deep boyfriend that likes to have when I stand drive as well. Share all of the details When he turned but she enjoys the details I shoot him in the same relationship with my husband has been that way for three or four years where he likes to go out have one night stands and then he tells me about it but we have a hard time in the beginning because he usually felt some sort of guilt like he was getting away with something he shouldn't be allowed to no matter what our agreement was between the two of us so and then took some time for work through that guilt so I would. I dropped out as an option that maybe boyfriend is feeling guilt by being allowed to get away with what everybody else is not allowed to get away with good luck. This is a shutout to the girl. In episode seven four WHO's downtrodden about being single during the pandemic? I feel you. I just broke off my engagement right before the pandemic the US at an experiencing double layer of grief right now. But I'm discovering a lot about myself and enjoying prioritizing myself for the first time in years but Dan was right. This won't last forever but allow yourself some grace. In the interim we're GONNA leave it there too. Oh six three zero two. Two six four is the number here at the savage webcast or comment for your show does to a sixty two to US explore batter yet. He's the voice memo APP on your phones. Record your question and emailed to us a voicemail at savage love casting dot com. There's been a big uptick in Magnum gift. Subscriptions People are sending the magnitude folks. They know who enjoy the show. Who are stuck at home to give them a little bit more mud casting their lives. We really appreciate everybody. Who's magnum subscriber? Everyone who is gifted a magnum subscription to savage loves CAST DOT COM. Strive twice as much show. More guests no ads. My dirty little porn film festival hub is going to be streaming online for. May Nine through June twelve posted by me. We got permission from the filmmakers for show their online and we'll have the fifteenth annual Film Festival. I'll introduce the show live streaming myself online. And then you get to watch all of these great dirty movies in the comfort and safety of your own home good hunting on best dot com to watch the trailer checkout the lineup. And choose the date and time that works for you and there's an additional show Hump fans in your best dot Com on commission. Follow me on twitter at fake. Dan Savage Follow Caitlyn Boden Badass Army on twitter at Bat. Ask Bodey and follow Dr Daniel West Strike on twitter at episode by design says webcasts produced every week by Nancy her tune from me and the Tech Savvy Atlas Him Nancy all be back next week installment some spoke Pashto. Thank you for downloading. Please stay safe.
She Did Everything Right
"She said that she met him in a bar. She was smitten. She really went all out for him. She couldn't see the red flags. I just didn't realize how much danger she was. A college athlete discovers a frightening truth. One of our friends actually looked him up. It was like this is not the guy that you think he is he conned women to get what he wanted. He was very good at it. He had been peaking in her dorm room window, being blackmailed her money. She did everything, right. Marin kept saying, well, the police will handle the Reese will handle it. So why did it turn out? So very wrong. We got the notification on our phone. Saint lockdown at the U, he had been lying in. Wait trying to lure her out. I was like this isn't real. This isn't happening. How do you not recognize that this girl leads your health, which should scare every parent? Is that this would be going on at any campus across our country? A terrifying story about a young woman with her whole life ahead of her who failed Lauren. I'm Lester Holt and this is dateline, here's Josh mccown wits with. She did everything, right. Graduation at the university of Utah in Salt Lake City, home of the us a time for Celtics smiles, and celebration. May second almost eighty five hundred graduates and their families hacked the university's huge arena. Lauren mcklusky should have been here to receiving her degree in cap and gown as happy as her classmates. Except she wasn't and the story of what happened and why is as sad as it is. I opening this wasn't one of those things where it was out of everyone's control. It wasn't like a natural disaster. How many times do women have to call for help before the university of Utah realizes? You know what we ought to step this up would at that point. I can really fathom. What happened? Neither slept at all that night. It's a story that could so easily have ended differently if just one person at stepped up if just one phone call had been made one dot connected. Grew up in the college town of Poole in Washington, her parents, both professors. And from early on Morin was a girl in motion. Her mom Jill, she could climb trees when she was two years old. And she learned how to walk when she was nine months old, and she was very competitive. So I thought that that would be a good thing for her to do to be in track and field. She excelled at the hurdles and Hijo a stack of metals tells her story of single minded devotion, and skill it all paid off with scholarship money from the university of Utah. Her dad, Matt one of the tractions of university. Utah was that it appeared to be very safe? And they, they actually sell that, you know, the Salt Lake City is one of the safest cities, this is a safe place. That's part of the pitch. Yes. Yeah. As she hit it off. The college Lauren was a dream a dedicated athlete. Studious not a partier not a drinker. Not active on the dating scene. What were you worried about anything? The only thing I worry about was an automobile. And so I wanted to research a really safe car, and so that was my only real worry. Lauren met Alex on day one of her freshman year. We were roommates our freshman year, August twenty fifteen and we became instant friends, Alex hung out together attended church together, and for the next three years, Lauren continued to focus on her. Studies track events and her friends as for boyfriend's not so much was Lawrence. Somebody who'd had a lot of boyfriends, I say. No, I knew she was interested in dating, but in possibly having a boyfriend, but I would say she did hang out with her. Friends a lot. Then came September two thousand eighteen the start of senior year, Lauren and Alex went to a bar downtown. One night, and Laura met someone. His name was Sean fields, and he was working security at the bar. You let the two women in kept an eye on them throughout the evening, and then as they were leaving, he made contact with Laura. I give him my number, and I guess we'll see. He contacts me. Untold Alex the next morning. She, like, oh he texted me. And we're why on a date this afternoon? Sean said he was a part-time computer science student at a nearby community college. He was Twenty-eight a little old, but not a big deal. More dates filed and Lauren told her parents about the man in her life. It sounded Sarah old fashioned the way that he was paying attention to her and asking her out for dinner, you know, doing all these things I used to say up, she's in love voice. Yeah. Things moved quickly Lauren, and Sean were soon exclusive when did you realize they were boyfriend girlfriend a week and a half after they met she wanted to be as girlfriend and made her feel special? That special feeling would not last. When we come back, Lawrence friends, start to worry about her new relationship, you could tell at least physically in her face that she was going through emotionally, a lot with the relationship before long. Her friends had a new worry. I was told that he was going to give her a gun. He had. At the start of her senior year at the university of Utah. Lauren mcklusky fell hard for a guy named Sean fields and soon he was her boyfriend Lawrence parents, Jill, and Matt her regular updates by phone refunds describe Lauren kind of smitten what this new guy that come across in talking with the two of you. Sure. Yeah. A lot of that happiness was just there already, but she clearly seemed very happy about her relationship with, with this person, but Lawrence parents hundreds of miles away in Washington state. New only what their daughter was telling them, it was different for her. Good friends at the university. They began noticing that the very independent. Lauren was now Shawn's beckon call every time he attacks, sir. She thought she was doing to make sure she picked up the phone or tax Lawrence friend. Alex said she was. Put off by Shawn's behavior when she and Lauren went back to the bar, where he was working like, don't forget to pick me off at two in the morning. Don't like don't fall asleep. Don't fall asleep. You said it jokingly but then I could tell he was serious. Pressuring her to stay awake to pick him up in the middle of the night after his shift ends. The very next night. Alex says came something else that made her on comfortable often here where are you who are you with that Friday, and she's just with me the entire time? So the fact that he kept asking, I guess is also vomiting. He says, Laura I did say it wasn't normal. But then I think she thought. He would start to trust her, so their brand new, and he's already kind of possessive and controlling. Yeah. Another friend. Graduate student named diamond was thinking the same, thanks diamond. New Lauren didn't have a ton of dating experience. She really went all out for him was really investing. I personally think too much time into it, like telling him where she was going to be and stuff and to her that just translated as well. This is a relationship to sweat. We do of who were you with where you going you ever say to her. This is not normal acceptable behavior for boy friend or for any man. Yeah, I did. And I tried to do it as like I'm coming to us a friend, older friend who've dated quite a few people, and just was presenting. Well, hem calling you're asking who you're with and wanting pictures of people around. You is not that that's not protection in. That's not love. That's not now. And she'd say she's like, oh, no, it's fine. You know, it's like a his wanna make sure I'm okay, Corman was in the same circle of friends. She says Lauren told. Told her about a fight with Sean he stormed off and Lauren vowed she'd be the one to change. Shay just clearly said to us. I don't wanna upset him that way. Again, I don't want him see him that mad ever again. A couple of weeks into the relationship, Sean was practically living with Lauren in her dorm on campus. He'd made friends with other students there. And so was able to come and go without a keycard Lawrence France thought she was sleep deprived. And she seemed sad when notice she was tired. She seemed stressed you could tell at least physically in her face that she was going through emotionally, a lot on her mind. You know with the relationship. Then something more ominous. Laurin told her friends, Sean wanted to give her a gun for her protection that immediately that was the first trigger. I was like a trigger because diamond was then working for the university's housing department, at the time she was Lawrence resident assistant living in a nearby. Building was she in any kind of danger that you might need a gun. Not that I know of or just when I'm with her. No, we'd never thought that a gun was necessary. It's not illegal. Abba gun on campus but do a lot of students have guns not to my knowledge, but it still has to be concealed. So you have to have a license for that, which means you have to go through the necessary channels from what I was told he was just trying to give her a gun, he had and that would have been against rule. Yes, it was. And it would have been something that you would have had to report. Yes. And that's what I did diamond sushi called her superior in housing to report what she learned she wrote an Email to the university asked us to make clear that diamond is speaking. For herself. And what she says, is that the response from housing officials to her alerts wasn't exactly proactive. It was a lot of, oh, we'll have have a meeting about it. We'll talk about it later or just stuff like that. Where it seems like it's not a big deal. Yeah. Where like this one, I'm like, this is absolutely not normal. I don't understand why you are not heightened about it. It was one of many decisions that university officials would later look back on and regret. Coming up. Sean head us secret on ugly one that he'd interests when Dave lime continues. By late September two thousand eighteen Lauren. Mccloskey's good friends at the university of Utah were increasingly unhappy about her new relationship with Sean fields would make comments like this guy is literally not good for her. He throws us off to the moment. We met him. We still haven't shaken off the feeling. Yes. Physically, yes. Cause us a huge guy. Lawrence friends heard that Sean wanted to give her a gun, their concern intensified. We would just tell her like no, you don't need it. Your safety is fine. If anything he's compromising your safety. Then in early October Lauren made a frightening discovery she called me, and she seemed very shocked and scared Newin had seen her boyfriend's ide- it had his photo with a different name suspicious. She turned Google of any idea what she was gonna find when she started searching. Because suddenly, Sean fields is Melanie. It was stunning. Most of what she thought she knew about her boyfriend was a lie from his real name Mellon, Roland to his age thirty seven sixteen years older than Laura. And finally, this Lauren's boyfriend was a registered sex offender Melvin role had been convicted of tempted forcible sexual abuse and enticing a minor over the internet. And so you said you gotta bring up with this guy, and she said, I will find too. Narron talked with her mom told her what she learned about her boyfriend and that she wanted to break up with him. And she was sort of asked me advice about the best way to separate his with them. And I'm thinking you said, get as far away, as you can and make sure you never see him again. Yes. That night rolling went to see Laura before knocked on her door appeared in through her window and that scared more when he did come in. She confronted him with everything she learned about him. Set up set up. I didn't do it. They're trying to frame me, but then she kept telling him like they need it to break up. And every time he said he was going to leave he would force himself upon her like twice or size. Save four five times her size, he was a huge guy like very muscling very tall. She would not have been able to. No way she could have gotten away. Roland state until morning. And when he finally did leave. He was driving Lawrence car, living amuse. The car was kind of the price of getting him out the door. So now how to get the car back Roland was going to leave it in a distant university parking lot or Lauren to pick it up. Jill didn't like that plan one bit. And that's when she jumped at action. Dangerous jill. Call the university of Utah campus. Police. Definitely have someone how her out can you have your daughter. Give us a call dispatcher. Gut lawrence. Contacted formation Jill had more. Let me tell you a little bit. More says he was lying to her. He's actually a sexual offender. Okay. And, and lied about his age and things like that. Okay. And then he has he has her car. So I'm she's gonna go there alone and someone's gonna hurt you leeann Cuba's police sent an escort with Lauren the car was retrieved without a hitch. The dispatcher call Jill back. She got the correct, so thank you so much better. So wonderful officiate it. No problem you make the mccloskey's were relieved. We were assured that they would be an essence on the lookout that they knew the situation. And here she was on a in a dorm. And so we thought the situation was very safe. They were wrong and had they known what lay ahead. They almost certainly would have been on the next plane, the Salt Lake City. Coming up. Being blackmailed from any. Her. But she sounds scared. She sounds scared of the two of you. Yeah. She does new threat, but the campus police didn't seem overly concerned, both have full. The scam is the scam. After Laura mcklusky got her car back from her ex boyfriend. Her parents exile. They believe the university of Utah. Police who now new Lauren had broken up with a registered sex offender who keep an eye out for Melvin role and Lauren hoped Roland was out of her life, a flurry of texts suggested otherwise messages to Laura from people who identified themselves as Rowland's, France. They're like, oh, why did he do this to the big by? He really loves you. Now, he's upset the text were from different numbers, but Lauren and Alex wondered whether Roland could be using a spoofing app to do that. The texts became increasingly lurid, Roland was said to have been in an accident. Then the hospital then he died. Lauren blocked all the numbers and called her mom, we talked about it that, you know, he couldn't have died in a car accident. Because it would have been reported, you know, there was a fatal accident Lawrence, awesome social media posts from Roland. So she knew he wasn't dead, then she received this text. Will you come to funeral? Lauren answered. I know he's alive. Please leave me alone and don't text this number. I got police involved. She did and told the campus police dispatcher her fears about, you know, asking if I wanted to go to a funeral hits Uniroyal and I think they're trying to lure me. What did they do about initially when she told them about the harassment, they told her there wasn't much they could do not much because the cop said Lauren told them the texts worth threatening violence? They asked her to contact them if the situation escalated, and it did the very next day she received an Email saying explicit photos of her, and Roland would be posted on social media. If Lauren didn't pay to keep them secret. She called campus. Police again. I am feeling situations for I'm being black now for money. So a photo of me and my ex to kick ended out to everyone and ask him for thousand dollars. Her. But she sounds scared. She sounds scared of the two of you. Yeah. She does sounds like she's worried that this guy is out there and nobody's kind of looking for him. And nobody's really taking her seriously, that sort of when I hear our voice. Sure absolutely. Was scared enough to pay the dollars and then went to the campus. Police office to file a report in person. Alex went weather, what you're describing that kind of cyber extortion. That's a crime. Yes. The campus. Police understand that and take it seriously. They kept saying it's a scam scam. We seem to think Rowlands phone could have been hacked to get the photos and the both Lawrence anthrax might be targets of the scam. So they had the cameras police is they're both being victimized this scam using his phone number and her photo, but this is not him. Victimizing her. However, Alec says Lauren was almost certain role was behind it all that day. Lauren also told campus police about the frightening time she caught Roland peeking through her window. They seem concerned. This is like a boyfriend girlfriend, thing, not a big deal. They thought we are over reacting in a way, stalking the harassment, the fake tax the claim that he was dead not worried about any of that just extortion. Neilan was deeply concerned about those photos getting out she was hoping for an immediate arrest the campus. Police had checked Rowlands criminal history and promised an update in three days, maybe hoping to spur them on Lauren what a step further that same evening. She called the much larger Salt Lake City police department. I was just concerned because I wasn't sure along, they were going to take to. The Salt Lake City. Police followed their usual procedure and referred Lauren back to the campus cops who had jurisdiction. He city she's got a case, number pending. She received an additional blackbelt threats. Following as Lauren called campus. Police repeatedly one officer gave her his personal cell number in the two exchanged sixteen calls and texts. Lauren was still getting more harassing texts and still waiting for that promised update and the response would be what for the most part, it was just we'll get back to you later, the detective should be contacting you soon. Lauren was worn out diamond saw her around that time. She's like, oh, hey, just not even making eye contact where I could tell something was up, but I was like, okay, well, I haven't seen in a while and I hope everything's okay and not. Okay. Everything was not ok then ten days after the break-up Lauren received a particularly chilling text. What did you tell? The cops it said. We know everything ruined was tech savvy had he found a way to hack her messages. Lauren called Salt Lake City police a second time. Because I've been working with the campus police at the U and last Saturday. I reported and I haven't gotten an update. Okay. But somewhat contacted need today someone who correct said that they know everything about the police k. The city PD bounced her back to the campus. Police a much smaller force with around thirty officers responsible for more than thirty thousand students on a big open public campus that day Lauren finally got the campus police detective assigned to her case on the phone and Alex listened in any sense of urgency. In the way, the detective is talking. I remember he said, Simeon Email fall information leader on when you can and the detective even said it was a scam lake someone's probably just half into accounts trying to scam you. This is not really to worry about. Now it was Monday, October twenty second. Another taxed this one claiming to be from a campus cop asking Lauren to meet him again. It was phony. The real police told her to just not answer it, Mr. role and who's been stalking is impersonating. A police officer. And the police response is just don't text him back. Yes. Don't text back, and don't go to where he says, and that was it. But not we're going to go to that place and find him. No. In the end, it was Rolland who found Lauren. Here he is on campus security, cameras, loitering, and Lawrence residents that evening around six o'clock. He's waiting for holding a black bag and piecing. Two hours later. The camera shows him leaving Lawrence residents heading out to confront her as she returns home from an evening class at that moment, nor was talking with her mom on the phone. She sounded positive and telling me that she was going to go home and finish an assignment when she went inside. Then I just. Hear her yell. No, no. And then she must have gotten tackled or something, because I hear some noise and. The phone fell to the ground, and then I kept calling for her. And she didn't answer. What happened after that would be almost more than Lawrence family and friends could bear. Coming up. My daughter is called an recounts like being happy on attack that some say campus police could have prevented they missed that Mark when dateline continues. Jill mccloskey's phone conversation with her daughter had been suddenly interrupted. Lauren cried out, there was a noise, and then Jill hundreds of miles away was listening to her child being attacked. I thought she was abducted. And I thought I thought it was him. I knew her life was in danger, at that time he was talking about Melvin Roland formerly known as Sean fields. The ex-boyfriend Lauren had caught in a series of lies from the family home in Washington state. Matt called nine one one. My daughter is at university of Utah and she just called us and look like she was being a cat or sounds like she's being hacking Tribune newspaper, Courtney Tanner was the reporter on duty that night. She heard the plenty of scanners sputter started hearing, some crackling about a possible kidnapping on campus. She drew to the campus and found a parking lot coordoned-off students at their windows to a couple that, you know, just didn't have any idea what was going on. But had seen police dogs and police officers running past their doors and you're scared. University, sent an alert to students shooting on campus. It said secure in place. Lynn hours, later confirmation of the worst news possible said that a student had been killed on campus university released photos of the suspect Melvin Roland the victim wasn't named. But Lawrence friends new. Yeah. I like it's Lauren it has to be Lauren, I know it, it was after all the calls the police all the steps she took to protect herself all the advice and concern of her parents Lauren mcklusky had been murdered. She'd been shot multiple times her body left in the back seat of a car in campus parking lot. It was almost like just being hit with a heavy object. It couldn't even. Can really fathom what happened then? It's just it's still, you know, still even now it doesn't seem real. Yeah, just sobbing I in my head was like, this isn't real. This is happening. Diamond blamed herself. I really hated myself. I'm sorry. Because I felt like I didn't do as much. To do with the parents are friends. Could've helped her your badge. Now you're not a police officer that wasn't your duty. That was someone else's duty. They didn't. I've seen police at times moving around. They've been running and some have guns drawn police launched a man on for Melvin Roland spotting in near a church not long after midnight. Doors were locked when police got there in. And when they open he had died by suicide on the inside a key fact about Melvin rolling had emerged. Not only was he a registered sex offender he was on parole campus. Police finally learned that minutes after he murdered, Laura. They missed that Mark Janna Vic is a former investigative reporter and spokesperson for the Salt Lake City FBI office. She now hosts a talk show here on castle NewsRadio with of parole as an extension of prison, parolees don't enjoy the same freedoms you and I do walking around on the streets. They are supervised by the prison system, and they're supposed to play, by the rules when they're out in parole, which means there might have. In an opportunity to have Melvin Roland pulled off the university of Utah campus and into custody. And that would meant he would have been locked up and not able to hurt Lauren mcklusky or anybody else right except campus. Police never checked Rowlands pearls status. Never knew that he could be in violation by having a gun or a social media account he'd spent more than ten years of his life in prison, paroled, three times and twice returned to prison for violations during one parole. Hearing in two thousand twelve which was recorded role was Frank about what had been his approached a women to show. He changed his ways every female that I came across dating or meddle into net. I'd say, I use manipulations get why want by making one phone call university? Police could have learned so much more about Roland in plenty of time to act on that information in this case. The university of Utah was not equipped with the detectives that have the know-how and the knowledge to investigate a case like this shooting. That simply wasn't part of campus. Police protocol the sense. I get is at the university. Police department was kind of not set up to sort of deal with the modern age exact sense. I got and they didn't seem to have a culture of knowledge of how to investigate crimes that are happening against women at the university things like extortion. Sex store, Shen social media extortion date. Rape. At a news conference three days after Lauren's murder, why did campus police chief Dale Brophy faced reporters and defended his force. We did believe that Roland. And or is associates both were threatening her financially and reputational. But there was no indication from Lawrence from Lauren us at any point in this investigation that he was threatening physical harm facing a PR nightmare, the university of Utah, commissioned. A review of the case, and how it was handled that review would reveal how profoundly the system and her own university failed Laura mcklusky. Coming up. That mistakes were made questions for Lawrence school under campus police department not check to see whether this guy was on all. Lauren mccloskey's murder last October exposed the university of Utah to some serious criticism. KSL News Radio host Debbie Janik. Did absolutely everything, right? Law enforcement did not do everything. Right. They drop the ball and now a young budding track star has paid the price with her life. Two months after the murder came the results of that review the university at asked for its conclusion, there were shortcomings, both systemically and individually that contributed the Lawrence death, there were thirty recommendations for change. And then university president Ruth Watkins said this report does not offer any reason to believe that this tragedy could have been prevented. That made me sick to my stomach in. I just couldn't believe that, that she said that I haven't talked to a single person who agrees with that statement, it was hard to reconcile those words with the reviews own findings that there were serious problems with campus safety procedures. We wanted to speak with both the administration and the campus. Police instead we were offered an interview with Barbara Snyder, the university's vice president of student affairs, Lawrence death with a tragedy. That affected all of us in very, very difficult ways. And we know that mistakes were made. We own the fact that mistakes were made the university was unprepared for this, and everybody was sort of slow to get out of their chair and realize serious. This was and maybe didn't realize that until she was dead. I'm not sure that any institution can really fully prepare for associated path coming on their campus and targeting one of their students. Done to prevent a homicidal maniac repealing on campus and killing someone if that had happened in vacuum, but it didn't you knew about him. You knew who he was, you know reading about him, but you knew what she was telling you, and you, I don't mean you specifically, but you as a Representative of the university, Inonu anything I confess. Very harsh. Critique critique that yours to make so we're not getting the police chief here, but he's going to keep his job. He doesn't have to worry about. He is going to keep his job. And, and, and that's a very natural question for people to ask you think they did a good job. I don't think they did an adequate job. But I think that we recognize that we own that, and we're holding individuals accountable, but so far, not a single person has been fired. In fact, the university's police department recently honored the dispatcher who oversaw the return of Lawrence car. And to administrators for their response to the crisis after Lawrence murder people consider accountability, firing. People are president has decided that the stronger way to this is to ask the people who can make a difference to make a difference. Barbara Snyder told us there will also be differences in procedures to make sure vital information is shared and acted on. For example, when diamond reported in was talking about getting Lauren a gun. It was never investigated or relayed to campus police, the revelation that this guy wanted to bring a gun on campus did not make anybody sit up straighter. It's not illegal to bring a gun to campus. It's not illegal for an individual to carry a concealed weapon in Utah. The report recognized that campus. Police did some things. Well, like helping Lauren retrieve her car, and it said officers did take her extortion complaint. Seriously? The report was critical of a campus force that was under. Understaffed and not trained to recognize ordeal with relationship violence. Did no one understand that extortion, and looking in the window and harassing texts. That that's all sort of part and parcel of relationship violence, or at least the potential fourth. It was not put together in a way that made made the difference that would have possibly prevented this remember, even though they knew Roland was a registered sex offender, campus officers. Never checked his parole status. How could you can't believe department not check to see whether this guy was on parole? I don't really answer that question. I don't know why that didn't happen, the yet is that each one of these things sort of taken as its own separate incident, and that no one ever kind of put them together into a threat that was kind of growing. Hindsight is always twenty twenty. It is. I think a correct assessment that all the pieces of the puzzle were never put together or you know, wishing the police were here instead of you. I can't say that. I speak on behalf of the university and Snyder outlined. Some of the other changes the university is planning. We've already added staff in the police department specifically to deal with victim advocacy. I'm also sharing a campus wide safety task force. It's looking at a whole variety of opportunities, including better lighting, better security, more personnel better training, so we're taking it very seriously. All levels of university, life, Laura mcklusky. Steph has had a profound effect. Sometimes institutional sometimes personal. There are no words to express. Sore. I am at a loss of this precious child. No words, there's nothing I can say to apologize significantly have meaning but we are truly sorry. I wish people could know how. Sure. Could understand? I'm sure this is exactly the thing that you least want a. Lawrence parents want the university of Utah to start thinking differently about student safety hoping other parents won't suffer as they have the parents deserve to know that the university, the very best job, they can to protect their stood and that is not only increasing budget or hiring a person, but it's going to be a cultural change where in fact, they really embrace what went wrong and an embrace responsibility who parents started the Lauren mcklusky foundation, which funds campus safety efforts across the country. Remember in March, they helped pass Utah state Bill one thirty four which requires public colleges to offer programs on sexual assault stalking and domestic violence. The foundation also offers financial support a track and field athletes, helping others participate in the sport. Lauren loved. There's nothing that I can do for Lauren except to honor her memory. And maybe prevent some other parents from going through this colleges. Look at Lawrence case and make some changes. The maybe. That's what my great hope is, is that it will then lead to some very common sense much-needed changes at at colleges. Big price to pay to get that far too. Too big a price. Graduation, students across the country, look to the future this year, Lawrence family and friends thinking about the past. I would love to hear her voice, again, I would love to hear her laugh. I tell people I won the kid lottery, and she was such a part of our lives, that I would talk to her at least every day. She was a genuine person. She was super fun like that's she lived to be with people into just engage in the mazing. That's all for now. I'm Lester Holt. Thanks for joining us.
Roll On: Creation Over Consumption
"The. Rich role podcast. Hey everybody welcome to the show. Today is awesome for many reasons including gratitude for our brand new show stopping sponsor public it's. I have a confession. When nine wandering the supermarket isles, I find myself slowly losing my sense of space and time mesmerized by the sparkly allure of colorful product packaging, enticing me with promises of everything from everlasting beauty to eternal health, and then I snap out of it and think wait I'm being had. It's all nonsense. Scientifically designed to spike my dopamine and put it in the cart will no more no more I say, just give me the good stuff and spare me the hard sell. This is public. It's the one. One Stop Shop for affordable sustainable healthy household products from home to personal care to premium pantry staples all in one place from detergent pods to bath towels, vitamin, B., twelve tea, tree, oil and canned goods, condiments public goods. Has It all save the name brand markup, but my favorite is their line of zero waste products like bamboo straws composed two trash bags and tree, free toilet paper Yes. Sir, here's the deal. Rather than buying from a bunch of single product brands, public goods searches the globe. Globe to find clean, healthy eco, friendly and innovative essentials that members can buy all in one place with one minimal, streamlined aesthetic. Decide to look beautiful in your home rather than stand out on a drugstore shelf like Nascar. They use a membership model to keep costs low and pass on even more savings to their customers best of all you can make your first purchase with no obligations I love everything about this and right now my listeners you people can receive fifteen dollars off your first public goods. Goods order with no minimum purchase in other words. They're so confident that you will absolutely love their products and come back again and again that they're giving you fifteen dollars to spend on your first purchase. You got nothing to lose. Just go. PUBLIC GOODS DOT com slash ritual or use the code rich role at checkout. That's P U B Lic g ods dot com slash ritual to receive fifteen dollars off your first order alright me and my man Adam are back. I am taking roll call. Let's do this. Everybody welcome to the PODCAST, another edition of roll on roll on life I our Ama. Ask Me Anything formatted version of the show where me and my hype. Man Adam Skolnick journalist activists author. Co Author of David Goggin can't hurt me and bomb Vivo at large joins me to break down I. Don't know current events a little bit and do things will answer listener questions. Questions Cetera so thanks for tuning in how you doing good man I've been bombed Yvonne at home. Right like the rest of your swim. Run workouts in though I am I've been doing a lot. I can thank you for that and I love this sport. It's pretty cool I just got an email. Who get the email? It depends on how you define cool. The email from Tila today that they were going to be hosting their world championship event in Sweden and now. They had to pull it. Cancelled for the year yeah. Again is is happening here is. This Week Yeah but the world championship of is getting shelved and I'm sorry I was at least so. At the same time we can still get out and swim around I love it. That's what I love about it is. It's not quote unquote cool. I'm the only person. See they're. Running around the streets of Santa Monica with a pull buoy attached your leg in a wet suit, and and I don't even wear. Goggles like most swimmers I wear masks because I'm so used to free diving so this low profile swim like really a free diving masks. You get any weird looks. Weird books, but you know I have gotten quicker like it's interesting. When I first started training for the Catalina race, I was like not I I'd been running on a treadmill, and now running on the street, like I was not very quick at all, but I have gotten quicker running longer distances during quarantine of definitely got more fit during quarantine. It's it's a trip and this last weekend. Was the first time I. Actually shed the wetsuit and was just in jammers, rash guard, and the poboy and we felt so much better running in that. Right yeah, yeah, yeah! Yeah, so I remember when I did the world championship event a couple years ago, I got together with the local Swim Ron crew in the days, leading up to the race, and we did a workout through the streets of Stockholm. So it was me and like I, don't know eight dudes running literally down very busy streets on a weekday in wetsuits with pull buoy and caps on and the whole thing. And Swim Ron is such a part of the culture. There that no one looked twice like business, people are walking down the sidewalk and we're running. You know it's such a weird thing. It is weird and then swimming in your shoes I keep thinking like who who is watching me. Get in and my running shoes swimming, but I do love it. I mean I have to say like there's something about the workout that afterwards like the combination I've been doing kind of like a three mile run a one point one mile swim, and then like a two to three mile run on the back end, and it takes me like an hour and a half and afterwards I feel. Like it's amazing how I feel feel better than if I just ran or if I just swing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's definitely a full body experience, yeah! You're looking fit. You might be the fittest I've ever seen you. Thanks man. You have a baby on the way, so things might shift a little bit. Dad bought real. Fear of the DAD yeah. So what we do here is. We make a couple announcements to talk about a couple of top of mind subjects Share, some good news, some show Intel and we're gonNA take a quick break, and then do questions from the audience so to kick things off coming about this by the way guessing this new format. We're trying to. We're trying to tighten it. Yeah, how goes yes? I'm not exactly circumspect in in how I speak so I don't know how much I can hear to the strictness. Just tell the pipe mandate back-off starts if he starts cracking the whip all right well, it's your job to crack the with all right couple quick announcements up top voicing change update. This is my new book. Book very excited about it. We're still in the process of finalizing it, but most of the heavy lifting is done timeless wisdom inspired from the ritual podcast. It's going to be coming out in November. It's looking beautiful I'm super proud of it and excited about it. I'll keep up to date on exact release date, but I'm so proud of this creative expression, which was very much a team. Effort a lot of really talented designers, and it's been a collaboration with them and with the guests. Of course. Oh, I'm excited to be able to share my guests wisdom in a different kind of format, so let me say has been going on in the background with everything else. That's been going on. have been working on that pretty intensely. also if you WANNA, have your question answered here on the podcast? You can leave it on our facebook group. We would actually prefer you. Leave us a voicemail that way we can play the audio on air, which is really fun. We're GONNA do a little bit of that today. The phone number just so you guys all have it as four, two, four, two three. Three, five, four, six, two, six I want to thank everybody who filled out the survey that we posted on our facebook group about this subscription idea that we're working on. It was super helpful to get everybody's input and feedback, taking it to heart, and also something that is in motion, and I'll keep you posted on that as well and then one final quick, follow up thing. Waxed on the other day about queer, eye and Karama. Oh. And I still can't believe this happened, but a couple of days later. I got a DM from Kerama on instagram and he's like Hey, man I love the podcast I. Love to come on I, I heard you guys talking about the which completely blew. My mind has ever happened before with other. PODCASTS has before he. Might be the first time, okay. I mean I just couldn't believe that he i. I think he's saying me I. Don't think he actually somebody might have told him, but. Whether he listens or not. I don't know we'll ask him. But I got him on the schedule for August so I have to look forward to really assuming that that happens was really funny about that. Is that my thirteen year old daughter who loves queer eye? She I showed her the. Check it out. I'm going to get Kerama. Come to come over. She's like that's not him like that. Somebody. That's about account and I was like no. It's got a blue star. Look blue check. She's like somebody hacked his account like she just couldn't wrap her head around. The idea that Kerama would have any interest whatsoever in anything that I'm doing so. I think she's not gonNA. Listen to that. The I leave it in until he actually shows up, and then she'll wonder how much I paid him or something. So, we'll see, but if you're listening Kerama. To talking to you, it's exciting. I'm looking forward to it. I'm going to come and be in the audience for that one because I'm excited, I can't. Hear Him What are we doing now? teachable moment, so yeah, so we're GONNA start with some top of mind subjects and starts with a teachable moment so What do you have for us? So one thing that comes up a lot and I get a lot of questions around. This is how to set an achieve a goal, so I wanted to just spend a couple minutes speaking broadly about my perspective on that I think it's a nuanced thing like i. do think it's really important to have a goal but I. I don't think that it's crucial that you obsess about that goal. And what I mean by that is we have to have something to look forward to that then to create structures that move you in a specific direction like you can't. You can't score if you don't know where the goal line is right, so you have to establish what you're working towards and. And that brings everything else into focus. A perfect example of this is I. Did their two way most of the quarantine not working on this book right because there was no deadline because we're self publishing, it just seemed like this ephemeral thing, and I could finish it whenever I felt like it, and what that meant is basically I got nothing done on it for. For, like a year when we finally established look, it's gotta get done by this time. And that timeframe seemed almost impossible to achieve. Then I got my buddy gear and I created a plan and I work towards it and accomplished it for me. That's what it took. Maybe that's not the way it is for everybody, but I do think that there is something. Magical about setting a date on the calendar where you want to have accomplished a certain thing, so not just the goal of right the book, but actually have a deadline imposed right like an extra time goal in this case was complete this manuscript by the state right right so. The deadline you know, create structures around achievement of the goal. But then I kind of forget about. The goal itself and I become very focused on the tasks that have to be completed every single day, so I break out a calendar big one of those big desktop calendars and I try to figure out what has to happen every single day in order for this to become real. And then my focus is just on what needs to happen that day and I forget about the big goal and I. Forget about even what has to happen tomorrow. Then it becomes about process because I really think that unless you can fall in love with process and immerse yourself in process that the goal doesn't really matter and I, and I should say also foundational to is whatever goal you set for. Yourself should be the right goal I think just picking any random goal is not great like that goes into a longer conversation. Conversation about the inner work required to set the appropriate goal for yourself and understanding the why behind it, you need clarity on the why why is this important to you? What is it GonNa? Do for your life once you have that sorted out. You set the goal, and then you create all the tasks that have to happen on the specific days leading up to that and you can create little steppingstone goals along the way that you can celebrate when you achieve them. Because that keeps you invested keeps you excited. It keeps you. Intrigued by this journey like it's good to reward yourself and take those moments periodically to celebrate the small wins, because big goals are achieved. Tiny little wins every single day. You so I think that's super important. I do a terrible job at that I don't really give myself space to celebrate anything you should I know. Should you know I think it feels indulgent to do that? I think what that does is it makes me feel more emotionally invested in the process and again it's all. I can't emphasize this enough it is about. Process and there's something about once. You've initiated that process and you're working. You're moving forward and you're getting those little wins every single day that creates momentum, and there's something really magical about momentum, I just know for me personally when I have momentum, then I become this moving object. That's very difficult to stop and I don't know what it is about that psychologically or neuro chemically, but for me it works once I've established momentum then other things feel like distraction and much more invested in the process itself. I would say in addition to that that it's important to create accountability for yourself. You can be accountable to yourself, but I think it's also important to be accountable to externalities. Other people who will help keep you on track I. Think you need to be selective about who those people are. You want people who? Are On your page and are going to celebrate you and are also you know encouraging you towards the achievement of this goal. You don't want to be accountable to people who don't believe in you or you're wasting your time, so who you pick to be your accountability. Partner I think is really important that person should also be somebody WHO's not afraid to call you out when you're missing the mark you know this is something that you see all the time with fitness goals. You do it with somebody else or. Or with small team or a group of people, you're more likely to get up at five o'clock in the morning and show up for that group. Run or that November project workout because you know your friends. Are there waiting for you and they're going to notice if you don't show up, so it's the positive accountability. The people are going to say keep going. You're doing great and the negative accountability of people who are going to hold you to account if you don't show up or you start to slack. And there's something specifically about writing books, too that the process kind of takes over your brain in a weird way. I mean it's so all encompassing. Yeah, it's like it's like a tunnel that you can't get out of the momentum becomes charging through it and can become distracting. You can get lost in the tunnel, but for me when I'm working on something then at Anytime Day, ideas can pop in to improve whatever that piece riding is, and I'm working on especially if it's a book, then those breaks whether it's going out for a swim, run workout or taking a walk, or whatever it is important to then gain perspective and. Right that's the idea. POPs in or the thing you didn't think of when you're so mired in the details you. You have to provide space for that problem solving. Yeah, yeah, and then if you miss like a daily Goal Accountability Wise but you still have the bigger goal on the calendar. Do you have advice not to get too down on yourself? or or how do you like if you if you start to fall off? If you start to fall off how to refocus well, I think you then recalibrate you. Break out the calendar and figure out. All right so I'm behind. What's going to happen for me to achieve this by this date you either change the date or you create a different structure to which you're more likely to adhere. have to inventory and say. Why is it that I fell off or couldn't maintain this? Daily routine. Maybe I was overly optimistic about what I could achieve a certain day like make sure that whatever you establish as your daily practice is manageable fits within the construct of your busy life. If you you know over cast that then you're setting yourself up for failure, so I think it's important that the things you have to do on a daily basis are are very manageable. The truth is. In order to achieve big goals, you don't have to do that much in a single day. As long as you're doing it consistently the one percent rule there's a compound interest that occurs like if you're showing up for half an hour every day to do something if you do that every day for a year or eighteen months or two years or ten years, the difference is astronomical. An additive thing. It's an exponential benefit that you reap from doing that so again. It's all back to the now the day and it's related to principles of twelve step. which is you know it's just about the moment. Like what are you doing today? Like in sobriety? It's like make sure your head hits the pillow sober. That's all you gotta worry about to worry about tomorrow. With respect to achieving a goal, it's like okay. Here's a hero things I have to do today and I don't have to worry about the things I have to do tomorrow or that big intimidating goal this looming out in the surface that just seems impossible, and there's liberation that comes from. Like All of a sudden once you have it mapped out and you know it's about the little bricks to build the big structure You know when you're just sitting there and looking at the big structure this big design that you have in your brain and you're like. Wow, how am I going to ever do that? and you just focused on that. It does become intimidating, but once you start my airline brick. Yeah, you can become airline, but once you lay one brick. You realize that I can do this you know just. Everything is managed every brick that you lay. Creates additional confidence in your ability to achieve the thing that feels impossible, and a perfect example of that was me training for ultraman like I. You know I I wasn't you know contrary to what people might suspect or imagine I wasn't some crazy gifted? You know endurance athlete like I worked really hard to achieve my ultra endurance goals, and when I began training for this race just seemed like an absolute impossibility. It was hard for me to wrap my brain around the idea that one day I would get to a place where on the third day of this Ultra Endurance Double Ironman race that I'd be able to run fifty two miles. And, it was just brick by brick by brick over an extended period of time. Leading up to doing a forty mile training run, which was like the craziest thing I could ever imagine doing six months earlier. That would have seemed impossible, and it's literally just by doing little things every single day. That are moving you forward. Beautiful I love it, so Let's There's a couple of things you WANNA talk about from the news. I is congressman. John. Lewis is passing. Just give a little bit of a recap. John Lewis was the child of a sharecropper. Ended up going to Nashville for college where he got involved in desegregation of lunch counters. And that Nashville crew ended up being really foundational informative of Student Movement within the Civil Rights Movement. He became a freedom rider, one of the original thirteen freedom riders that Rode Greyhound buses through the south to desegregate. The National Transportation System He ended up the head of the student violent Coordinating Committee, which is basically the student arm affiliated with Martin Luther King's southern Christian leadership conference. which was his organization. he was the speaker march on Washington. He led the Selma March. He got beat and he's done arrested like forty time. Yes, something like that and congressman for over thirty years I mean. The man was a giant. Yeah. He was a giant. He was the conscience of Congress, and what a beautiful expression of life like somebody when I think about him. I think about somebody who. Lived their life in strict accordance with their values, and and never really wavered. Even when you know basically culture and society was up against him like he was, he had the fortitude and the sense of self to. Never you know basically. Allow himself to be swayed from what he believed in. Strength that center of gravity that he was able to hold for so many years is so powerful, and why he so revered, he will certainly be missed, and it's interesting that you know he's lived. Most incarnations of the civil rights movement. I mean instrumental in the Civil Rights Act getting passed all the way up through the recent protests at the very end of his life, he led us sit in in two thousand, sixteen in in Congress that floor. The hassle representatives to try to force the Republicans to move on gun control. Control Issues Yeah Yes, he was protesting all the way through. Yeah, you know I aspire to that level of advocacy and strength Yeah Grayson Shafer. Who I know from outside magazine he's being editor there. He posted something on Instagram. Just thinking about the amount of courage, it takes to march into the teeth of an attack. of you know it was. It was vigilantes and cops on the bridge in Selma. The Edmund Pettus Bridge and to lead that group going in there armed ready to get beat knowing you could die knowing. That you know is very perilous situation, and always you know his. His whole thing was nonviolence from the beginning yeah? And learning those and techniques. To understand that like I take away from like reading about him recently, it's just like. Like the incubator that was Nashville you don't think of Nashville as an incubator for the civil rights movement, but it really was because it wasn't just John Lewis came out of that and and kind of the entire student arm of the civil rights movement came out of the people that were working together in Nashville. Yeah pretty interesting. Yeah, he was beloved on both sides of the aisle. He was, and he will be missed. Obama wrote a beautiful piece about him. On medium and also the New York Times, wrote and extended Oh. Bit is worth your attention and I can link those up in the show notes. Cool. So then, obviously, the big issue here this last couple of weeks has been the reemergence of a virulent covid nineteen in the United States of America and all that has wrought and I think that we're both. We don't want to get too politicized here with it, but a couple of things have come out. Stand out for me. And one that I wanted to talk to you about and get your take on. Was this idea of of masks or anti terrorism and the American love of freedom, and that's being reflected right now in two very different takes on things. One is the anti mask crowd who people who don't want to wear masks see the orders of mask ordinances around cities and states as an example of authoritarianism, and then in Portland right now there are extended black lives matter protests, and in and the city has been. been dealing with that for ever, since George Floyd died and more recently, the federal government has set in customs and Border Patrol agents that are basically jackboots on the ground that are taking people off the street. Even people who aren't at the protests have claimed to be arrested, and and in blackout cars by unidentified federal agents, and then turned up next thing you know they're in federal court so in a way that feels very authoritarian ist to a lot of people, especially those protesters and you have kind of. Those two things juxtaposed on the mask front I was reading a great article in the Salt Lake Tribune by Courtney Tanner and it was about how in the conservative counties they don't want their children to have to wear masks. Mothers are spitting in masks at County Council meetings. And then you go to Huntington, Beach California. Where the guys chat and JT. What's their Youtube Channel? Those guys Chad goes deep right and. These guys are hilarious and they turn up at like city council meetings all the time and troll the. Going around trying to give away free mass, trying to get away cheaper angry at them exactly and it's the same thing that's happening in Provo. Utah, so it's not just happening. It's not fringe really these reactions to masks so interesting I think. What I find fascinating about. This is the different lenses through which people perceive. Authoritarianism on the one hand. You have the anti mass crowd who are? Rallying against this edict that we wear masks as an infringement on their liberties, and on the other hand, we have these federal troops, essentially this militarized police force. That's patrolling the streets of Portland. And uniforms that don't have names and don't necessarily designate their authority and unmarked vehicles vans, etc, rounding people up arresting people. and. There's a certain contingent of people who I would suspect that the people who are against wearing masks. Don't have such a big problem with that. And the question then becomes versa yeah, and vice versa right, so the yeah, the people were exactly so the question then becomes what is truly authoritarian. What is the real risk here? Where we seeing inroads on our democratic ideals and living in truly liberty oriented democratic society right to me. And I have to like. Is this my cognitive bias to me? I! Don't have a problem wearing a mask. It's a mild in I. Don't like wearing a mask. It's a mild inconvenience, but to the extent that there's any evidence whatsoever. That might be helpful or protective for other people to. Keep them from getting sick I'm happy to do it. I'm happy to do it, but when I see. Troops in a city. On Federal Authority against the wishes of certain state, governors and mayors and local politicians, patrolling streets and arresting people. Seemingly I don't know I'm not I I've born witnessed any of this. But I read that esquire article about this. That's more deeply concerning to me. It feels like a greater threat to our liberty and far more authoritarian than this idea like where masks and look out for each other. Yeah, I talked to somebody WHO's at the protest in Portland on. Friday, night and And there it was similar to what we had here. Where the police kind of did escalate the tension as opposed to try to escalate it but they weren't. Identify themselves I. think that that has started to trickle out. It's it's really hard to know exactly what's happening because when you come when you have these kinds of really tense situations. Nobody is objective observer. You know so. It's hard to know exactly what's happening in. What is mistakes mistakes being made that are legitimate infringements on civil liberty, and what is like they're doing it on purpose like where where's that line so gray, but we do know the mayor of Portland has asked for the federal agents to leave We do know that And you know there was this line from the salt. Lake coverage of this was in Provo and one of the leaders Republican who sits on the county council in Provo said. The mandates and he's he's on the county. The county council is I don't like government mandates, but and that's true right like so a lot of us. Don't like it, so the question is like what is it in the American soul that makes us these love this lover of liberty, but maybe to our own detriment to the point that we we want. We don't want to be told what to do. No matter what, but in this case. In terms of the masks people are doing it, and it could really come back at them in the form of of a virus that could kill them like what is the and it's already kind of made us. Nationality non grata all over the world. We're down to twenty eight countries. We can go visa-free. Go almost anywhere where the American passport. That passport has been devalued right so there's a there's a stricture on our liberty right their ability to travel globally. Yeah, it's so fascinating. How vociferous and angry people are certain? People are when asked to wear a mass is when you see that in that comedic video with those guys. They're basically like. Hey, do you WanNa Free Mask and people are? Are Flipping the bird and fuck off. Yes, and getting really angry. Is that the muscles? So why is it? Why is it making people so angry I? Think is one question like what what is that rage all about and that's something. We talked about a couple of weeks ago, right that like repressed rage. That's just beneath the surface. That I think has a lot to do with. People feeling like they don't have as much agency in their lives. As as they feel like they deserve and that's a longer thing that we went into before, but. Juxtaposing that onto what we're seeing in Portland and then contextualising with this this argument around free speech, where where's the speech being impinged like? If you're unable to protest, because you're GONNA, get arrested even if you're doing it legally. That's seems like a greater. Repercussion an inroad on free speech, then being told to wear a mask while they relate right is in, and how and why did wearing a mask become so politicized? Well that I think takes us back to the Cunanan and all that Youtube coverage and the negativity around this the people who think the pandemic is a hoax which you did here in that that comedic video and Huntington Beach, but you also hear it in the in the council rooms and in protest lines in Salt Lake City and Provo that people don't believe. They don't believe in the virus, so there's this idea that we want freedom to the point of our own detriment, right? There's something about that's very American about that that we want freedom so badly. It's to our own detriment, and you know our friend. Dan Buehner studied this when he did Luzon's happiness. Like when is where does the paradox of choice kind of tip against you when you have so much individual freedom that it actually works to reduce your happy, so the example that Dan sites is Singapore, rashes basically an authoritarian. Rule Where and also I'd. Yeah, basically where for certain seemingly a minor offenses, you can get caned and to. The repercussions are very severe and yet the happiness quotient there seems to be very high. Yeah, because it's super interesting. Some of that's basic needs are taken care of versus freedom so here we we lost after freedom, but we don't do a great job of taking care of people's basic needs. you know we don't have? The education system is has suffered We could go all. All the way through the list you know, so, it's interesting. It's just something to think about like with with the on an individual level. What do you think about that like for you? You kinda create your own discipline around sobriety around being plant-based. All of those things and you could look at that is I'm not allowing myself this or that, but what has come with is. is their freedom in that, or is there a freedom within a structure that we should be aspiring to instead of all freedoms all the time? Yeah, I think I think that's a really good question. I think that if you look at any creative expression, some of the some of the most beautiful works of art come out of restriction, right like the independent movie where they had no. No money and no time and yet created this amazing work of art that stands the test of time had they had one hundred million dollars to do it and as much time as they wanted. That doesn't necessarily mean that it would be of more value or even better right? You hear this time and time again with artists like because there were restrictions placed upon them that forced. A level of creativity that that they were forced to tap into something that they didn't know that they had right, and that brought greater expression to whatever it is that they were trying to say. You know you could say the same thing like. To, my own personal experience, okay, I know drugs and alcohol I. Only Plant Based Foods I've you know I've I've removed a lot of things from my life so I have restricted choice in certain regards. Doesn't that mean that I'm less happy or that I? Don't enjoy my life and my answer is that that it's quite the contrary opposite through that restriction. I have created greater freedoms for myself. And there's no better parallels what's happening because if we all wear masks and we can get a handle on this virus. We can actually have our lives right and I. Think another thing. That's restriction another thing worth noting that that that. Our mutual friend Dave Goggin. Would probably echo. Is that we need to develop. A greater capacity for anti fragility. Yes, we need to be more emotionally resilient to everything that's going on. Yes, and that comes through putting yourself through difficult situations personally where you become adapted to being outside of Your Comfort Zone Extrapolating that it means that when you are in the presence of somebody who doesn't agree with you or perhaps you're anti mask, but somebody wants to give you a free mask. You don't lose your shit. Long fit of Lucan maintain some level of equanimity and grace and kindness with other people. But the fact that everybody is so hair triggered by everything when I see that I see a lack of emotional agility. I see very. Emotionally. Fragile populace that could benefit from maybe focusing more on their own. Personal challenges and trying to become a better version of who they are rather. Shouting at other people who? Are Voicing some. Opinion. That perhaps they don't. Do you. Guys have to see the Chattan J.? T. Thanks, shoutout, challenge put. We'll put a link of. Yes! Casey tweeted out. I my thing with mass. My hair trigger is the people that wear the mask, but with their nose, peeking out right, which is basically like. Walk down the street with your Dick Hanging Me Everywhere like it's the same as doing that. I know I see that all the why wear pants I see that I trust the guy like I remember being in Paris and seeing a guy like just a naked guy walking down the street, and he's less creepy than someone who's like half dressed. I also told Chris House. In one of our coaches corner episode, we did want at the very beginning of the pandemic. We're talking about masks. And I said the masks the mass suffer from branding problem. If we just called them aerobic capacity, enhancers or something like all the arguments around like your breathing your own. You're breathing carbon dioxide. You're not this is making you more sick or it's. It's impairing your immune system like the science doesn't bear that out. It's not true, but to the extent that you may believe that it's inhibiting your oxygen intake. This is just making you a stronger human being your body, you go adapting to less oxygen, which is making you a better athlete over time so if we rebranded or renamed these things as athletic enhancers. Cardiovascular! As quickly. Yeah, maybe maybe they. They would have a higher adoption rate I don't think so. I think that There's some web. There's some youtube video out there that we're not watching. Probably. That's not my algorithm of suggested. Know the evils of masks but But you know. Listen I think For me as a longtime travel writer where I this many times with American passport, like where I could just breeze through without a visa to so many countries, and to see that kind of flake away is sad to me, but I do understand it, and I kind of felt like at some point that could come. That could happen and to me. That's sad like. It shows at one time. It was the passport that can get you almost anywhere without having to go through the process of getting a visa and now most of the places we can go without a visa are in the Caribbean Bahamas just banned us. Were banned from Europe I'm it's IT'S UNPRECEDENTED? Yeah hasn't happened before. Yeah, yeah, well, the incidents rates are you know through the roof right now? Lord Arizona California. You know we've got real problems trying to contain this thing and to the extent that wearing a mask might help. I'm going to wear a mask. Cool? Let's go into this something. Another segment we're calling it. Show and tell and where we get to talk about things that we wash. We saw we're GONNA. You know could be food. It could be media. Let's START I WANNA start with Tommy? Rid, Oh, right? We should start while we're on the subject of Maso Tommy Ras. Tommy Rivers Poussee for those of you don't know. is a legendary beast of all things running endurance and ultra. He's a beautiful guy. very accomplished runner. Get I think as PR in the marathon. Something like to eighteen. He's one two I. Believe two consecutive rock and roll marathons beloved in the endurance community alleged on the trails and the road. And a guy that I met when I flew out to Utah to run the final marathon with the cowboy for his fifty iron, man's and fifty states in fifty days, and Tommy had spent. Quite a bit of time with the Iron Cowboy I don't know how many days of that adventure he joined James. Lawrence but it was a lot. And so I got to run with him, and talk to him in and spend a little time with him, and just a beautiful guy, loving guy. Smart guys got two daughters wife these getting his PhD. He's a physical therapist, but I think he's in Grad School. I don't know if you complete Grad school or not, but anyway the reason I bring him up because. He is in the ICU right now I think he's been in the ICU for over three weeks. Coming up on a month with Cova, did like symptoms. I'm not sure that he's been technically diagnosed with Cova. Hold you, but he's got. Maybe. Early forties I think he has severe respiratory distress, and he's in very serious condition right now, and he's been posting videos on instagram. sharing. You know what it's like to be in his condition, and this is this is one of the human beings you you're ever going to see. Eighteen marathon specimen of just this eight pack ABS, and just lie then be you know with the beautiful stride, and just a magnificent beautiful athlete and like? I said a very loving guy and he's very sick right now, so there's go fund me That's been set up to allow people to help contribute to his significant. Medical Expenses and I just wanted to wish him well and people to the go fund me. This is a guy who's given so much to the community and really needs our help right now so I'm going to link up. That that go fund me in the show notes and you can find on Instagram at Tommy underscore. Also, we're thinking about you told me and his brother Jacob as well who spend trying to help. Get the word out about this with you. Man Just goes to show you Tommy's like where a mask you know. Yeah, yeah, I mean. There is you look people with metabolic disease? People are overweight. People with cardiovascular and respiratory ailments are more susceptible to. Cova than than what you're. Serious. And like I said Tommy is not officially coronavirus. I it's. It's weird that they can't string. This is but to the extent that perhaps this is covid This is a guy who you would think is very unlikely to be suffering to the snap from something like this, so just be aware. Get Well Tommy. Some switching gears switching gears. Thanks for that. Sorry about that. My computer has died right so I need to power. But let's get to a Darren Owens new show Zach right on down to Earth, so most people I've probably been made aware of this by now, but my man Darren Lean, who spent online cast a bunch of times. has a new show as acuff Ron Netflix's is called down to Earth. It's a limited series I. think it's six episode. Where these two guys traveled a really cool destination Iceland in your everything from regenerative agriculture to sustainable energy and everything in between and. This is really cool. It was the number one show on Netflix a couple days ago. I don't know where it is right now is certainly in the top five or ten at the moment. and it's been great to see Darren get introduced to a much more mainstream broad audience. And then he was originally I'm this is a guy who deserves the spotlight as much as anything he is. Not only one of my best friends, but he's a wealth of knowledge on many subjects, and this is now an opportunity for everybody in the world to experience some level of his expertise and I think it's great and to pair it with Zach. Is You know this is a guy? Who can you know? He's so world famous that that people are going to tune in just for him, and then they get to see Darren, and it's really cool, so I'm really proud of them, and there's a there's A. Kind of interesting backstory to this which is. that. Zach got introduced a Darren because he heard Darren on the podcast. Right so that's what got him interested in Darren to begin with which is super cool, so I feel like it's awesome like I. I helped you know behind the scenes I help you guys get together. In fact I out cycling a couple years ago, my friend conor Dwyer. He's been on the show before. Who's really close with Zach and with Dylan Ephron Zak's brother who I'm friends with, and they were going on and on about Darren. Like well, let's when we finished the ride. Let's go over it. We'll go over to his house, so I brought. I brought these guys over to Darren's house, they met him there like Zach. Zach is GonNa be so mad that he wasn't here. Darren's taken them through all his superfoods in his special water, stuff and everything like that, and that led to those guys getting together, and ultimately creating the show, so I'm GonNa. Take full credit. U but I'm just. Really I'm really excited about it I. think it's a perfect blend of kind of entertainment and education. It certainly oriented around a mainstream audience I. Think if you were to ask Darren. He would have preferred that it was. It struck a much more serious in-depth tone, but you know in order for this to kind of cross, pollinate and reach the most number of people they also have to be kind of light and entertaining as well so well. I think I would like to tell us. For someone who has brought a I mean I'm ninety five percent plant based occasionally a little bit of fish, but less and less now, but I brought my wife, who is plant based April to Mongolia for a month in hard and Tina and and is look to be in that same score like it's not easy to be plant based on some of these locations I would love to hear when you I think you're gonNA. Have the guys on right be good to have? An answer to that. No, I'll I'll have Darren back on Zach has left the country? Okay? I. Don't know that I'm I'm at. I could say where he is i. know where he is. Because I wanted to get those those guys on together I'll get back to talk more in depth about that'd be an interesting sure. It was all kinds of cool behind the scenes story. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that'd be cool, awesome and then. Another documentary but not a series, but an actual feature length doc. was finally released in, and that was fabulous. I know you're excited about this. You Watch it. I did watch it. Yeah, we are freestyle, Love Supreme Yes. What a great movie! It's an amazing movie. Do you WanNa tell people Six, so if you caught my episode a couple of days ago, with Dr Andrew Huber Man I, had for the Audio version of the podcast I had you'd Karsh booed car on for a brief like fifteen twenty minute segment talk about the movie. Karsh is longtime friend of mine. who's been on the podcast he was on two years ago. I think it's episode 373 mistake. How did you meet him? I just I know I'm through friends and. he's friends with decay to and. What I love about. UCAR, she's just this amazing. I mean a lot of things about him, but. His his story is remarkable in this incredible arc that he's had from being somebody who was very talented as young person, but also very much in his ego, and and and lost in his addiction that it really hamstrung his ability to move forward his career and it wasn't until he got sober that he's had this beautiful renaissance where his career is exploding, but one of the. Part of his origin story is being part of this small group of very talented artists called freestyle love supreme of which Lin Manuel. Miranda was a founding member of. Which is essentially this group of people who would get together and do these freestyle spoken word, spontaneous performances that were very audience engaged the. It's Improv with rattle exactly. Yeah, yeah, and and this is the kind of creative crucible that birth everything from in the heights to Hamilton Hamilton doesn't exist without free stuff. Supreme probably all goes back to that this documentary. IS A. Elegant and lovely portrait of not just that story, but. The love and friendship between these young men, and they have incredible footage of them when they're all super young. Started which Wayne Antonin Tommy and Wesleyan and was Did Lynn gotta West Lin went to West so four guys from Wesleyan, basically, that became friends, but two of them were really tight, and they were the they were free styling together and then Lynn join the group, and it was like you know. Like a SUPERNOVA. And they eat, so you see these guys from the early twenties and a follow up to the Edinburgh You Know Theater French. Fringe Best of all you follow him back. To New York, like to get the keys to the to a bookshop that that became their their house theater a little black box theater. Seats. Thirty seats and then you see Lynn's arc, and you see how some people I think. Karsh came came in a couple of years later. Yeah, but when he came in, he was like like Lynn called him nuts and bolts. The best pure rapper they had I know is crazy. Basically is like he's the most verbally dexterous rapper I've ever seen. Yeah, and but then they trained him to. Steer it towards Improv. Comedy make lighthearted stuff versus the big up. Yourself type rap out that contradiction that he came from. So interesting to see the foot of the footage itself is is worth watching, so you could see this, and then of course like you said you learn Tommy secret to becoming a Tony Tony winning director. Lashing yourself onto macarthur genius just. Wherever you go. But the movie is very clear that Tommy elevates everything they do like. When was was you know sure to point out that Tommy was the guy who could call him on his bs or tell him when he was missing the mark a little bit, and you know the fact that those guys have stayed together through thick and thin, and and growing older, and all the kind of permutations of life. And always come back to this one thing like the reverend that they have for this creative, this very pure creative expression recognition that not only do they owe it to that for all the success they've had in their life that it's critical in keeping them fresh and creatively inspired and active. You know and I think the lessons in there. Are. You know respecting the process like I I think if there's anything cars pointed this out when I talked to him the other day like. The movie doesn't exactly. Demonstrate how long all of this took like? This is going on for many many years before Hamilton and then freestyle love supreme being on Broadway. Remind me to tell you the experience of seeing it in person but. Just the idea that. It's friendship. It's pure love and devotion to a very particular art form that forces you in a way that other art forms perhaps don't do stridently to be completely present, and to be in the purest expression of your personal truth in the moment to moment I love I love when Lin has to Puke like before the show even every time now like now. Yeah and. I mean I think. That's amazing in talking about Tommy. He's he's like one of those that he knows how to coach the greats. That's what they say about great directors. They know how to coach the best actors and the best of the best creative, so yeah I think that that's not an easy skill to have I mean that's right. That's amazing and Chris Jackson who was George Washington in Hamilton, He was in this group from getting the height. So it's it does show you like the last thing you can form a band of creative souls like that stick together It's incredible where that can take you. Yeah, and you saw them I did. How did you say? It was like last fall right? It was in November. I was in New York, and I was there to do some I can't remember. Why was there do some podcast and stuff like that? But I was like I'm seeing that show car? She's like I. Got You covered? I got an extra ticket for bird. Our our our book agent I brought him, and I had a sense of what it was going to be, but I was not prepared for just how transcendent this experience was like it was magnificent bird was dislike. The, entire time I've never been more entertained in a theatrical production in my life. I just was astounded at. The skill of these individuals to do what they do because it's so inaccessible like them, the quickness of their mind and their ability to rapidly respond to what's happening and create something so extraordinary out of whole cloth in the moment. Is Very difficult for me to wrap my head around, so it was incredible to witness it. How long did it? MEAN! I can't remember it was like an hour and a half, and it's very audience participatory, and you see in the in the documentary. They bring somebody up on stage and they they ask them about their day. And then they just create an entire musical number out of this person's mundane daily experience, and it's the most hilarious thing you've ever seen and then afterwards we went. Went back stage burden, I went back stage. And then we're standing on the stage after everyone left, and it's like Carson May and those other guys. Lynn standing right there and I was like I'm looking at bird like making I was like. How is this happening? Like? How am I standing on a Broadway stage next Lin Manuel Miranda? My Buddy Ucar like and I think about. Karsh Arc, and how it all could have gone terribly wrong, and how he he pulled his life together, and is now able to be in his full expression doing what he loves and. On a Broadway stage like it's just it. It gives me goosebumps to think about it, and it reminds me of. Human potential you know when we can become spiritually fit. What we're capable of doing, and it's never too late to actually find that redemption right like if you can get yourself back to the cause and to yourself and to be kind of connected to year. Self in a new way and empowered way. One, thing I forgot to mention when I had kershaw on the other day. Is Is. He's the guy like. If you missed my podcast and you don't know who this person is. If you watch the Oscars, you will remember. He was the guy on stage who did a freestyle rap like in the middle of the show where he was talking about people in the audience and. I go back and watch that it's pretty incredible. I! Think I do remember that I do remember that was. Okay? I do remember that yes. Amazing I mean. If you're a fan, of Hamilton it's must see honestly hundred percent of. Our big show until we haven't been now. there is. A new plant pace product dropping right now. It's a collab- between KFC. KFC beyond meat collab-. It's called beyond fried chicken here. Lake! Available in how many fifty nine restaurants in southern California! Not every KFC there was one in Seamy valley though interesting. Shows. It's like it's not the ones you think are in the communities that you would associate with like plant based Venison Venice and lows fearless snow. It's like in kind of the areas where there. Aren't so many options. Which I think is great I that is good. I wonder if that was part of the Calculus. Those decisions where to where to, and they didn't tell me that they did share you know. One of them is in Redlands, which is near Loma Linda, which is a blue zone kind of very much vegetarian place and there's other vegetarian fast food places in Loma Linda But they said it was a wheat and soy protein, and not the PEA protein that you get beyond beyond Burger Hattie. The Burger is a protein protein-based. So this is wheat and soy sweetened soy. I'm not sure they didn't. They didn't kind of divulge. If it's using the same cow gut machines from the I'm guessing not. I'm guessing it's totally different. I know that it started in two thousand nineteen. When KFC. And beyond got together, and I think it was KFC, approach them, but at least that's what the agent said to me. Beyond meat is also available at Carl's junior I believe as as a burger yet. Impossible's the fat Burger Place Right. Yeah, that's right. Yeah! I know what Burger King Burger. King is impossible. Right Carl's junior. I think yes Yay, so we pick this up and the idea was. We're going to do a taste test. I've never tried this, but then Ataman me that it is being handled by the same. People that handle the chicken and fried in the same fryers, which is obviously that's not surprised. That's not ideal, so I deal has a as A. Vegan, I'm GonNa, I'm GonNa Forego but furnace for. Runner like. That's not looking at it. Try. They look like mcnuggets they do they are. They don't look like a chicken. Does not look like it looks like a looks like a hot pocket. It's A. It's a Rambus. I can smell it though. It's probably cold at the smell. Does I mean you can taste the herbs and spices? Colonels Herbs and spices. It's good. It has more of a lot of times the. Plant based chicken products are very robbery. This has more give to the two that does does have more of a chicken breast kind of. Texture yeah, chuminess straighted. Decay you should try one of these. Lake indeed. Yeah, come on in here. Surprise, you got decay on camera why? Because you guys I'm going to share my I WANNA share my opinions on this in a second. All right, give it a go. Good Thank You Olin. Feel like Kentucky Fried Chicken on the outside yeah yeah. It smells like Kentucky Fried Chicken I can tell you that my palate isn't as developed as Adam. But. I would eat this. Yeah, this all right. She knowing that it's healthy. And even looks like chicken, so here's the thing. Let's break it down you're proving. Look I also love impossible Burgers, but I don't think it's the healthiest way to approach your diet right, so here's here's the thing. This is somewhat controversial so I want to kind of be very clear about my perspective. In my opinion, on this I think the fact that there's this collab- between KFC, and beyond is a good thing. Just like I support beyond meets collaboration with Carl's junior and possible collaboration with Burger King like these are. Improvements interational on a broken system. Now he's not health foods. Even if this was not fried in the same deep fryer where they. Cook Chicken. I might have tasted it, but this is not something that I'm going to be eating maybe as a delicacy like once in a very rare blue moon, but That's why people go to KFC for the delicacies. You're not going to KFC or junior burger king to eat healthy right? Call it the Catholics attitude. These are not health foods at the same time. I think it's a good thing that this is happening. I think that this is a move. It's a pivot away from animal agriculture. It's a pivot towards a more plant based world. Certainly animals lives are going to be spared as a result of this and this is a good thing to the extent that we can introduce. Plant analogs to animal foods people like. And convince them that it tastes just as good and is slightly healthier than what they were eating before is a move in the right direction, and that's a move that I celebrate. There are a lot of hardcore vegans who say. You know you gotTa Boycott Burger King Ain't got a boycott. McDonald's and all these places. They're slaughtering billions of animals every year. That's all true, but we have to celebrate the winds, and we live in a capitalist society. These gigantic conglomerates are responding to consumer demand and to the extent that the consumers are demanding plant based foods plant based analogs to animal foods that they. They like that's something we need to support right. We need to fan the flames of positive change, and the if everybody starts buying the beyond version of these chicken mcnuggets, at KFC they're gonNA. Make more of those and less chickens KFC burger king. McDonald's these are these are companies that are not going away. No Right. They're trying to adapt to the Times. They're not. Doing this because they're trying to be amazing, human beings, they're responding to consumer demand money. Yeah, basically, it's a capitalist pivot because this is where consumer demand is going, and the more consumers that demand plant based foods, the more companies like this are going to react and respond and move in a direction that is better for everybody. Yeah I mean for me I've come to embracing. A plant based. Almost exclusively I should say plant based lifestyle. Because of the cruelty. Of the system and because of the water pollution and the and the runoff that comes from it and destroys oceans, so I'm system meaning a animal agriculture So you know that's where I come from, but I also have always liked fried chicken, and there's things I do like about that kind of old diet that I used to have, and so it's nice for me I like having this option. one thing that troubles me a little bit from. All these because they're like tech companies beyond impossible and I. Love I like them and I buy their products, and so I should say in full disclosure that I own a couple of shares of beyond. Not that that's influencing everything. Just full transparency I like that. I? Don't but but I I would. I would, but I don't yet, but the one thing that kind of a key is curious is is. As, as bad as the current cafo structure, and these like the high density, raising of animals is You know I. It didn't start that way and it used to be. food could be one of those things that you could empower smaller businesses and a family farm, and is obviously not that way anymore, certainly not with chicken farming, not with chicken farming, so I'm not saying this is like GonNa, change, it, but there is something troubling about like the winner. Take all thing that happens from from when businesses siphon of money starts going to fewer and fewer straws right, and and and it kind of goes up and enriches less people. Is it's? It's a little anti-democratic in terms of business when a couple of winner. Winners in a space take all of the money and so I'm not saying that that's happening yet because there are competitors in plant based foods space. But it could get there and so that's one thing that I think about just long-term. Right what you in other words you're saying to the extent that the impossible's in the beyond the perhaps at some point, the Memphis meets get going to. Basically create like an oligopoly of well the based meat and becomes becomes bigger and bigger, and like it's not just a million people, but it's like or you know I don't know how many plant based people there are but there's you know fifty million people buying all these products on a regular basis if it's going to less and less people than the wealth is going into few pockets, so and that's kind of how we got into this current political situation, yeah! Yeah Yeah Thinking broadly about that that is something to bear in mind. I mean there is increasingly more and more competition. There were just a couple of these now. There's lots of these companies that are that are doing this and the technology is also rapidly evolving and you know I wouldn't be surprised if a couple more companies start to make make their mark in this space I agree, and maybe there's a way to do it where you're not just it's not. Not just it's. It's not a factory here in a factory there. Maybe there's a way to expand it and employ people all over you know. Yeah. I mean one downstream implication of this is the monocropping you see with the P and the soy, the wheat and all of that which you know also needs to be addressed. Keen did that. Do you know it's like yeah There's all it. It's always trade-offs right? There's no perfect solution. This is now one solution to. To get people who are going to KFC to maybe like you know what today for my kids I'm GonNa get the beyond chicken nuggets 'cause I can't get my kid eat anything. He eats chicken nuggets. He's got to eat something or she and I'm GonNa. Get them the beyond her beyond. I think that anything's better than chicken mcnuggets right right now. Let's let's start. Yeah, exactly, but let's start moving in the right direction and when we look at the the the biggest. Offenders of climate change animal agriculture is up at the top. Yes, to the extent that we're creating solutions that are admittedly imperfect that are reducing our reliance on the CAIPHUS system to produce food for wide swaths of the population. Then that's something that's good I agree well done guys located all right. Let's do win of the weeks and then we'll take a break all right. What are you got winner of the weeks? Well, you WANNA. Go first well. My Buddy, getting a Netflix TV show. Is huge his book I think is number ten now Amazon, super life and has instagram I think he might have had like seventy thousand and I checked this morning, and he's at like almost two hundred thousand now a May week. It's great it should be he should have. He should have a New York Times bestseller, and he should have a million followers on instagram because he deserves it and he's the real deal, so that's my one of the week well done Darren and you know what's cool. Is that the producer of that series? The company that's involved where Anthony Bourdain Sue Anthony Bourdain show yeah, and it definitely. It's a tip of the hat to that genera programming. No question My win of the week is live sports coming back which is partly why I'm wearing? This hat here go dodgers. Go Lakers and I've been waiting for squirts. Not every one of our listeners here are fans of the ball sport, but I am basketball fanatic baseball fanatic and There's a great blog. Casey Nice Stat, tweeted it out and is a huge fan of it. and it's by someone who's looked up to Casey for a long time. It's a rookie from the seventy sixers named Matisse Fable, and he was a four year player versus Washington. He's now rookie on the seventy sixers, and he brought his camera and his particular lens to the bubble in Orlando where all the players are. And he's got a youtube style, so he's. He started this channel like a week ago. Right and there's like over half a million subscribers. And he is rocking it with these really interesting. Well done edits of ten minute videos where you're really seeing kind of this surreal moment in professional sports up close and personal he he does everything he shows you the testing. He shows you the food. He shows you how they're spending their time. He has a little bit of the practice court. I think it's really cool. I saw Casey tweeted it out. You know maybe at the very beginning like right after maybe his first video and he's like this is my new favorite. Youtube Channel and now I watch episode two three today He's got almost a million views on on these videos getting all this press interest. and. It definitely does a debt of creative inspiration from Casey. He's got some cool Casey at its in there. But what I took away from it. I think they're great. I was fascinated to to see this. But you just see the mundanity of these guys who are stuck basically in a average hotel Orlando with not a lot to do other than go to practice and get tested just waiting for something to happen like they're playing cards, and they're trying to figure out how to spend their time during the day, and you think of NBA players living this crazy lifestyle and you realize like. It's almost like they're like stuck in a dorm somewhere. Basically, it's a trip because going in when you see that Florida numbers peaking and you worry about people getting sick, and you think about it, but like watching this actually made me feel better about the odds of getting through the season Oh the precautions that they're taking earn saying. Yeah, they're taking these crazy. Crazy precautions. They have a lot of resources that disposal There's really yes. Do some people who work in the bubble go home at night, and could they possibly get infected? Yes, could that end up in a player getting infected, theoretically asked, but there are so many barriers place I feel a lot better their opportunity of getting through it also think of like. It is surreal. I can't imagine going through that for like two or three months like the seventy sixers are team. That's a contender. They could be there for the duration. The Lakers could be there for the duration and we hope they are. Like and there's all sorts of reasons why they're there for their own financial interests. They're there for greater financial interests of MBA players general, because if they don't get to certain financial benchmarks than their. The deal they have with the owners could go away and ended up making less money as a collective in following seasons. But at the same time they are, they're also to entertain and They are taking a lot of discomfort and risk, and there is something there whether it's. It's a selfless act to go to the bubble in some ways to. It's not just a selfish act to get paid. It's people who want to serve the game, and and are are putting themselves in this very bizarre situation and part of it is is a public service. I think I. think that I took that away from it as well. You know it'd be wild. If if Matisse's youtube videos get more views than the games that that's not, that's not completely out of the realm of possibility I mean certainly some games he's. He's GonNa. Be Going. Yeah, yeah, he reminds me of WHO's the tennis player? WHO THE YOUNG TENNIS PLAYER! Sissy PAS PAS had a youtube channel. You Sissy Poces is a top ten tennis player. You know matisses is a rookie, and he's kind of making his name. I mean I. Love The facetime. De by the way Yeah Oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! Yeah, and but he's an, but you know supposed to have the same thing he has. He has a youtube channel. It was doing well, but he as a top ten player. He dropped it. 'cause he has other than you know. This is kind of Matisse's a able to get through the monotony right, so he's. Hotel nothing to do editing these video hours. Amazing. Let's take a break a quick break and we'll be back with listener questions. Cool. Back in for more, but first another confession. I love books. I love books. I love how they feel I. Love How they smell and I love how I feel reading them, but I'm also super crazy busy. There's just too many to read and I've got like ten in my tent right now, and I don't want that. Love to turn into a burden or God forbid a chore, which is why discovering bleakest was like unwrapping a gift from the heavens, my new secret weapon for learning new things efficiently and effectively blankets. There's an APP that basically takes the best most pertinent key takeaways the need to know information from thousands of nonfiction books and condense it down into just fifteen minutes that you can read or listen to. 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It's time to build a stunning online presence with squarespace. Go to squarespace dot com slash rich role to start your free trial site today and make sure you use the offer code rich role to get ten percent off your. Purchase that squarespace dot com slash ritual and make sure to use the offer code ritual to get ten percent off your first purchase already. Back to the show. All, right, we're back so. What do you got for okay? Cool going to start with some that we got through twitter and facebook. This is from Patrick. Dean via twitter, really enjoying this format. With all the incredible online content out there all the great videos and articles about everything from personal development and outdoor athletes to literary and social issues. How can we best rash time, thanks? Patrick. Good question I think I think the important thing to bear in mind is your ratio of consumption to creation. There's this illusion of productivity that occurs. when we're consuming uplifting content think we're actually doing something because what we're receiving is uplifting, and it's educational and informative, and it makes us feel like we're capable of achieving our goals. But the illusion of course is that it convinces you that you've actually done something when you haven't so. I think it's really important first of all. That's good I. Think it's really important to be mindful of your information. Diet kind of content that you're choosing to consume on the daily basis. And to the extent that were in this you know, stay at home moment for a lot of us were spending much more time in front of our screens, and it's easy to just click click click and mindlessly just hit the next youtube. Video without thinking through. Is this the best allocation of my time. It hits it for you. Does Yeah Oh yeah, it'll just play unless you anything. Interrupt the flow exactly. Relax in the Barcalounger. So, yes, you gotTA. You GotTa I. BE Mindful about that. Diet your information diet your payment. Diet, and make sure that you're calibrating it so that it's in your best interest. Then you have to check the valence of consumption vs creation. There's a lot of talk about screen time, but I think screen time is too broad a term because you can be using screen time to write a book or like Matisse at a video. Right upon. Create Music. There's there's plenty of creative productive positive ways to use screen time we're you're actually in the creation process rather than the consumptive process, so the first thing is doing an inventory of how much of your screen time is consumptive versus creative and trying to calibrate that valence so that you're using your screen time for more creative output, and then being objectively honest with yourself about the extent to which you're consuming content, and perhaps deluding yourself into thinking that that's actually. Actually moving you towards your goals. I guess the best way of answering that question like Y-y-you. Digest, or do you produce and if you're not leveraging the content that you're consuming to produce or make changes or create forward motion in your own life, then it becomes a distraction. Gary visas this all the time. He's like. I, hope that you stopped listening to me and watching me one day because if you're stuck on just washing, those people who are motivating you. Like if you just watch David Goggin videos all day long, but you never put the running shoes on and go outside or do a single push-up then you're missing the whole point of what he's trying to explain to you. Yeah, right agreed I like that. The ratio consumption vs creation for me I think of screen time I. don't even think about my computer. It's rare that like I'm on the computer unless I'm writing or working on my phone when I'm on my phone's screen, time really is. Experience is not so much a creative experience. I take notes in my phone. Sometimes so it can, it can blur the line. What about all this TIKTOK dance moves? You got going on pro. Tell them about my Tiktok land. Do not do not mention my tiktok handle. So. In terms of consumption are there like two or three kind of go to things that you're always hitting like is there? Is there like a guilty pleasure, or is there something that you're always like? Is there a podcast? You kind of listen to on a regular basis beyond just kind of just something for you, not really even for work I mean I would say. PODCASTS are are the thing that I can seem the most on on my phone. and I can been consuming a little bit less because I'm not in my car as much, but when I'm out training. It's definitely you know that's my go-to form of edge detainment and I mix it up I mean I'd have to look at my phone to tell you what I'm listening to lately, but it tends to be yeah. Sometimes I'll use it I. Listen to stuff. That has nothing to do with anything that we talk about here. You know I'm not listening to the shows that are similar to my own, because that feels like homework, right and I need to broaden my perspective and other areas, so I listen to like a lot of tech stuff I like care, Swisher and Scott Galloway Pivot podcast. I like professor. Galloway's new. Prophecy Show I've listened to that I like reply all which is stories about the? Internet Oh, cooler fascinating long-form kind of journalistic deep dives into weird corners of the Internet I. Think those guys PJ and Alex who show doing amazing job I like storytelling. YEA, listen to some Rogan podcast, but not all of them and I mix it up. Glad your glad well for sure. Yeah, who is I'll say it right now. Nobody doesn't add read like Malcolm. Glad well, throw. Into the whole body experience I, WanNa Watch the whole production goes into how he crafts these ad rates and the writing that that. Well you. It's where he gets to be funny. I think than anything, and any is funny but yeah. I was listening to revisionist history the last couple of days new season as out big fan it is, he's another guy I'm trying to get on the show. The emails back and forth and haven't been able to make scheduling happen, and that's what I really want to do in person, so I'm willing to wait a little bit longer like Yeah, that's another great one. Okay from Bell Roomie on facebook. I feel overwhelmingly disheartened by humanity. I'm generally a happy person. Laugh all the time and still do but I find myself wanting to get evangelical about stuff I feel passionately about, but when I do understandably I feel like no one wants to hear it. What can I do to obey these feelings of powerlessness and fatalism about the future of humanity and the planet? Little question for you yeah, right I. Feel you bill roommate we. Thank to the melancholy yeah. I understand that feels like It reminds me of of something. I tweeted a long time ago. That seemed to connect with people which was something along lines of. If you're breaking paradigm, you can't. You can't really expect people to applaud you for it like the the mainstream is not going to take kindly to your counter programming. It just doesn't work that way right so if you're trying to do something different if you're stepping outside of what is considered to be standard operating procedure, people tend to be threatened by that and their defensive around it, and they're not necessarily going to celebrate you or accept you for that choice. and that's just part of it. It's not personal right so the first thing I think is understanding that this is not an attack on you personally and people who? Don't want to hear from you. are really saying more about themselves than they are about any choice that you're making and I'm also reminded about the life of John Lewis like this is a guy who basically has been spent you devoted his entire life to butting up against the system to express what he believed in knowing that he was only going to move the needle a little bit, but it didn't matter to him because this was his truth right, so if it's your truth. Truth. It shouldn't matter and I think you need to just be clear on what your values are and focused on leading the life that you want to lead and step outside of any expectation or desire or need for anybody else to approve of that, and certainly from free yourself from the need to convince anybody that you're right in there, and you're wrong, because that's a recipe for the fatalism that you're currently experience like the be the change versus trying to get people to change, right. With activism I'm a big. We need activists, but sometimes there's a limit to what you can do in terms of person to person right. Yeah, so live your life. Live your truth. Feel free to express that, but create boundary between yourself any expectations. You have that you're going to be convincing. Anyone else to do anything differently than they're already doing. And I think it's important to always lead with compassion and love and understanding, and that's another thing that John Lewis stood for right. He's not coming from. A Place of Anger and frustration and judgements. That never worked for anybody so to the extent that you're advocacy or what you're trying to express to other people about your choices versus their choices to the extent that is tainted with some level of judgment or sense of superiority That's not gonNA. Work Right. No one wants to hear it for a reason because nobody wants to be told that they're doing it wrong or no one wants, and people don't want to be judged so. You have to just live your life. Live your truth and the sense of powerlessness or fatalism. Emanates from this attachment that you have to. Other people changing right control the controllables all you can control is your behavior what you're doing and your reaction to the world, and to the extent that you can be more mindful and more present and more responsive in less reactive. The happier again you're going to be as goosing always says less emotion more devotion. Give me say that the other day on the pocket. I'm always thinking about that. Great more devotion, less emotion, yeah! and. I'll I can say is if you think people don't WanNa, hear about by diversity. Tried telling him a swim story sometime. About a swim run race shell that goes to give them the blow by business you're going to do. You're going to put a wet suit on. You're going to run down the street. You'RE GONNA. Love it. All right. Now we're going to the voice mail or dig into the voice mail, so let's shall we repeat the voicemail number for people, so they can. Maybe Blake and put that up on the screen to so we love to see voicemail. Before two four, two, three, five, four, six, two, six, one more time. I have to go back up. Four, two, four, two, three, five, four, six, two, six awesome. Let's hear from Joe from Pittsburgh. Hi Rich and Adam Jones from Pittsburgh. Even with the question of schools reopening unresolved, many parents have already made the decision to home school. You Cyber School to fall. Myself included any thoughts or tricks on how to maintain sanity while both working in being a part time teacher during this time in history. Thanks guys and feel free to use this clip on here. So also, that was echoed by Bill Lawrence on facebook. WHO's asking for advice on resources for home schoolers because he knew that you and Julie did that. Yeah, yeah, so thanks, Bill and Joe for that question. It's kind of a two part question. One is homeschooling resources, and the other is how to kind of maintain sanity as a parent when you're trying to work and also home school kids. It's tough, you know I don't know that I have the ultimate answer to that. But as You can lock yourself in the container shipping container. Locked myself in it like a womb and I say don't bother me seems to work pretty well. At the same time Julian I. have spent some time homeschooling. Our kids and we both have worked from home for quite a while, so we have some experience in that, so the first thing is is maintaining your sanity and I think. now that everybody is a lot of people are working from home now, and that's a new thing I think it's important to have boundaries around what is work time and what is home, schooling, time or or or leisure time right? Because when you're working from home, it can all bleed into they all bleed into each other, and then you're kind of always working never really working and and a Lotta Times, you're not one hundred percent present and whatever you're doing, because these things are overlapping so. Rule number one is establish your work hours and during those times. That's when you're focused on your. Profession right and that also requires you to communicate adequately with everybody in your family, your kids and your partner, whatever so that everybody understands? These are the hours when you're doing this thing and here are the hours we're going to be doing these other things, and also I think it's important to. Still create. A little bit of structure around this beyond just the scheduling like don't to sit in your pajamas all day like you know, it's easy to fall into a depressive melancholy when you're at home all the time and just getting dressed like you would for a normal work day or just maintaining some of those practices I think are important in maintaining your sanity as well. in terms of homeschooling resources. Look Education is shifting as professor. Galloway will. Tell you. Corona virus is in accelerate on online learning right like a lot of the traditional structures around education I. Don't think are GonNa. Come back. I think there's going to. We're going to see a lot of. Mid, Tier Colleges, go out of business. I think we're GONNA see this. Push towards more and more online learning and. Maturation of the technological platforms that are conducive to that and people are starting to realize that a lot of the costs that goes into education isn't really paying dividends like. Are you really going to pay you know eighty thousand dollars a year to send your kid to USC when it's basically zoom calls like right. That's GONNA. That's GONNA. Really UPEND The paradigm here, so this is being exacerbated an accelerated by corona virus, and we're not gonNA just pivot back to the normal that we knew before like these changes are only going to accelerate, so what I'm saying by that is that online learning is going to become more than norm than abnormality. That doesn't mean that kids aren't gonNA eventually. Go back to the classroom. They will of course at some point. I don't think it's going to be this fall for very many people. So we're in this for the long haul, in terms of homeschooling resources I mean, Julian I are are paradigm with our kids. When they were younger was very much an unscrambling methodology, so it wasn't a lot of. Kumaon, all kinds of online learning courses. We have tutors. We and we still do for for a WHO's home schooled. We have a couple tutors that she spends time with every week and projects. And she has some online stuff that she does through those tutors, but I don't have like a list of you know these are the websites that you go to does. Home School this whole time. She husband well, she was at a school she was used for a while. And now she's been home schooled now for like the last two years, Mathis Costa an art high school in downtown, but now that's all on zoom, and it's been very difficult because the appeal of this art school was all the studio time in the dark room. Room time and all the practical you know art based education that she was receiving there, that was her lifeblood, and now it's just zoom from you know eight thirty in the morning to four o'clock at night, and it's making her insane and I. Don't blame her. Kids are not wired for that so to the extent that we're trying to mimic that classroom experience. By dint of his screen I? Think is a mistake I. Think what we need to do is. Leverage the unique opportunities that are available to us to do something a little bit more creative and unique with with our children's education, one of the opportunities I think we have is to create a more experiential based learning experience for kids where we look at what they're this particular, especially to younger kids like what they're naturally interested in like. What are they inclined towards when they're not being told they have to learn something like what are they? What are what are the things that they're into is a comic books, is it? You know drawing pictures in you know making beats on you know garage man. Like what do they do when no one's looking and then try to figure out? How to create some kind of learning experience curriculum that involves that. Avenue that involves that discipline, right and use that to. Teach everything from math to English right like if somebody wants to make beats well, there's an opportunity to teach them. Math music is math. Create compositions learn about musical notes and how they relate to math and. figure out a way to translate the emotional experience of making music and listening music into words that can become an essay like I I really believe in in moving towards their natural interest, and trying to figure out how how to platform that into a greater understanding that involves other disciplines is a multidisciplinary approach, requires a lot of attention and time on behalf of the parents but I think that's how you get. Kids engaged in learning by focusing on what they're already interested in rather than trying to compel them to be interested in something that they're not. Oh, you mean like the American ethic of freedom. You have to at least an hour a day. I. Want them to be indoctrinated on. How freedom is so vital. Okay, that's important. No, but I think it's really interesting reminds me of an old outside magazine article that I read like about unschooled his kids like he, he moved out to the woods with his wife and two young kids, and the whole idea was. They weren't going to home school. They were going to school, and they were just gonNa live off the land and do the best they could and the movie about that with the Asa Yup. Yeah, well, yeah, the captain fantastic. That's different. I mean captain fantastic. He ran a real school, right. Kids were smart like that movie. GD's. Survivals. It's different. Lakers. type of home schooling captain fantastic like the girl with the Dragon Tattoo. But. I think that's really interesting, not making normal school. What would you pointed to there? That's liberating for parents. Because I think a lot of people wanna do that because they think it's also goes for. Don't mimic the normal work day like you like you said. You need to be able to be okay with working for five hours maybe instead of eight and do it in really concentrated fashion, and then do the same thing with the schooling. Maybe a morning, session and afternoon session, and just like move the these are all moving parts. They don't have to look the same way that they did. Yeah, there's a lot of that I've experienced this myself because I'm a product of a very traditional education and I'm a successful product of that system, right I went to prep school and I went to a fancy colleges, and I went to law school. School and so when I look at my kids I think. Will they need to have that experience or you know I? Need to make sure that the value that I experienced as part of their upbringing and for me. It's been a process of letting go of a lot of that. Because in truth, the educational system is right for reboot. We're dealing with the legacy of a system that was created. At the dawn of the industrial age to basically create productive creative productive workforce that was capable, and it really hasn't evolved much past that in any real tangible way now we have this moment this eruptive moment in which we have the opportunity to really evaluate the validity of this system and reimagining reinvented. And I think you know the hurdle for me has always been well. If we're doing this unscrambling method or doing, you know. Pursuing this in a and a relatively. untraditional way like are they? GonNa do math, or they gonNA had these fears like well. They'RE GONNA learn about you know. Like. Pick any subject matter. But when I really thought about it, I thought well. Education doesn't really appreciate the value of the technological tools that are at our behest. Now everybody's got a supercomputer. In their pocket. Yeah, that has the answer to every question they ever want. Asked and answered so this modality of read and memorise seems completely ludicrous in light of that, and what we need to do is is focused more on critical thinking skills, life skills leadership skills like. How do we produce a well rounded? self-sustaining individual with solid self, esteem and leadership skills, and the ability to listen and the ability to learn and a love of learning like what you want to do is create somebody who will become a lifelong learner if somebody's enthusiastic about learning, and you have a phone or a laptop, your education doesn't have a start point and an end point. This is something you will have your entire life. So how can we instill that in young people? How can we get them excited about learning? And again it goes back to what I said at the outset, which is focused on the things that they're interested in and demonstrate to them that. No matter what that interest is, it's it's like a seed that can then blossom or flourish into learning about. Many anything because intersect with all day of course everything Intersex. Right, it's one big web. I liked that. That's really good and I. Like what you said about mid level universities because I I always knew that trump university wasn't that university. It was the time it was. If he launched it now it would be a huge hit. It'll be a huge hit, maybe Yes. Julie from southern Minnesota. Let's hear from Julie. This is a good question. Hi My name is Julie from southern Minnesota. My question. What advice do you have for a person who's I income? About forty pounds overweight nobody ever guesses me at my current weight of one hundred eighty. and with unease. That's been giving you problems. 'cause I'm now fifty. One and arthritis has decided to take up residence in my knee. So any suggestions THEY DON'T WANT TO BE A. Elite athlete. But I do WANNA. Take running that as one of my. Dreams and go lows. And so I'm just wondering. She, give me a cliff notes version. how I work up to that. Otherwise I'm in good health. Just Chevy with a bad knee. Thank you? Hi Julie, thank you for your question. That's a good question dream of becoming a runner. I like it and I appreciate and applaud your. Your honesty First of all I'd say I'm not a doctor, so I'm not in a position to give you medical advice with respect to your arthritis in your knees, so I don't know exactly what's going on with your knee and I? I'm I'm reluctant to. Say anything anything that's going to exacerbate. Whatever's going on there? So the first thing is I would go to the doctor and figure out exactly what's going on there? What you can and you can't do so that whatever activity you do, take up isn't going to make that knee problem worse to the extent that it's manageable. My best suggestion for you is to. Get out and go for a walk. These things start with that right? You're on a fixed. Income doesn't cost anything to go out and walk. You don't need to buy fancy shoes. You don't need to buy anything all you need to do is put one foot in front of the other. And, if you ask any of the people that I've had on the PODCAST, who've gone from being severely overweight to becoming ultra runners people like Josh Johnny. It started with a walk around the block right and you just build very gradually upon that, so that's my only and best suggestion is to just begin whatever excuses you're telling yourself about what you can and you can't do are keeping you paralyzed and stuck on the couch, and it really doesn't have to be anything that scary or onerous than that initial walk, and then after you've been doing that a little bit, and you walk a little bit further and you walk a little bit. Bit Farther maybe try to jog for ten or fifteen yards and see how that feels. And then the next day you go a little bit longer, and you stay on top of that knee and you ice, it and you go to the doctor and you eat. Foods that are healing are anti anti-inflammatory that are anti high in antioxidants, and the weight will start to drop gradually. This isn't like a crash diet, thing or a situation where you're going to snap your fingers in your life's going to change overnight. This is a lifestyle shift the ideas you WanNa make the shift that has staying power that helps you fall in love with movement. That brings joy into your life by virtue of exercising your body, so that it becomes an embedded habit and the easy choice rather than the hard choice so. Walk out the door walk around the block. Celebrate the small wins. Start to make tweaks small tweaks in your diet. And, as you start to see very gradual results, you'll experience what we talked about at the beginning of this podcast with respect to goals, you'll start to feel more emotionally attached to this journey more invested in it. You'll develop that momentum, and before you know it, it will become a self perpetuating motion machine. That's going to take you on an amazing journey. I get and physical therapy can also help with a Nissan drives and to get advice from physical therapists. Would be something I'd recommend. Help me with a really bad foot for a long long time, and if you, if you haven't explored physical therapy, you can usually get that even fixed income. You can usually get that with your health coverage whatever that may mean yeah, if you're if your if your insurance covers that great. Beyond, the physical therapy and and going to the doctor about your knee, the grand total cost of this experiment is zero dollars right. I love it. and I remember when I was first getting back into running after being on the shelf with that foot problem for a year, started with five minutes running five minute. You know you. You're like a Fart Lek type thing, but not at a high intensity. Is that something you recommend to yeah I'm a big believer in that. Yeah, yeah, run walks. Cool we got one more for you. This one is from. Cleveland Ohio from Allie Hi Rachel. My Name's Allie and from Cleveland Ohio and it certainly Casey's put this on the air. My question for you is what your relationship is to money and I know that you briefly touched on missing the last episode, but I graduated College a little over a year ago and I actually decided to pursue a career finance because I know that it can be lucrative I have two months to pay off and goals is my own, but the I understand that it's really important for people to have a solid financial backing them so that they can actually reach their goals, but at one point. At what point is it too much to? To be saving. You know too much for retirement or caring too much about what you have in the thinks you can do things in the future, and you know choosing to live your life now because I feel like I'm very very fruitful right now. With the hope that in the next few years I can do more of what I want to, but it's certainly takes away from the purpose I. WanNa. have in my life right now, because I'm so focused on saving in acquiring money for the future things that you're not in love, you guys. Thanks you a question? You sound like a very responsible person totally much more responsible than I was. She had nothing to do with me when I was twenty. It's a great question I think. that. It's important to be fiscally responsible as a young person and to to develop. Healthy habits around money At a young age an a healthy respect for what it can and can't do. I respect that she paid her way through college. It's amazing, right anybody who does that like. Celebrate that person right there, and I think it's perfectly. Acceptable and laudable to pursue a career path that will provide you with financial stability like I suspect if she paid for her own college that she might be coming from a background, in which wasn't as financially stable as she would have liked and people who who come from that background are going to be the people who are more likely to pursue a conventional career path that's going to provide them with financial stability that they lacked. I'm just projecting, but it sounds like that might be the case here. Yeah, hundred percent understandable that she would want that and need that because if that's the case that was lacking beforehand. I think. What she's getting at and what's important to reconnect with here? Is this idea well I'm Gonna I'M GONNA create financial stability for myself and I'm going to defer those things that I really WanNa. Do for the sake of creating that foundation. The idea behind that is is perfectly fine like I said, but the fear is that. You never get to the purpose part right because what happens and I've seen this a million times. I saw it in law. School with people who are like I'm GonNa. Go into you know I'm going to go. People, a lot of people go to law school because they want to help humans in certain ways like in a nonprofit context, but then you accumulate all this dead right and these law firms come along and there dangling six-figure starting salaries, and and people say well. I'm just GONNA. Go do the corporate law thing for a couple years. Pay Off my debt, and then I'm going to thing and what happens more often than not is you? You acclimate to that salary and you start to create a lifestyle. That only that salary will afford, and there's a keeping up with the Joneses thing that starts to occur and before you know it. You're leasing a car that you can't quite afford, and you're in a mortgage, and all these things then make you stock in a career path, and it makes it more and more difficult to then shift gears and pursue that passion. Purposeful life that you had aspirations for as a young person, so the good news is you're super young. Your whole life is ahead of you. Pursue that career path and finance create that foundation of financial stability, but I would. Strongly suggest not that you're not doing this already, but that you live as minimally as possible. and refrain from any of those expenses that later on can prevent you from being nimble with your career. You know sounds like you're good at saving money, which is fantastic and also to remember that it's important to. To invest in experience, right, you keep your overhead low. You choices for yourself and flexibility with your career path, and you have the ability to invest in experiences whether those trips or learning things that you WANNA learn in your life career. Other hobbies things like that As long as you can do that, then you then have the freedom to make those changes later later on in life. It's really great advice. The only thing I'd add to that. Do those things as a young person me I didn't know you didn't know. Dashing swimmer, Stanford, a lot of mistakes that I wish I could change my my message. Young people is always like live lean. And and try to protect that ability to be flexible and Nimble I think that's right and I think that's great advice and seems like she's on that path. Seem like she's acquiring a whole lot at this point. Right but I would say that this this CR- this craving purpose, real and Foam Oh Israel, and sometimes we're so attached back to the consumption, so attached to our phones, and we see people living lives of so-called purpose or having these experiences. Experiences that are like you know bucket lists type experiences, and and and she's like grinding it out saving money. first of all a lot of that is is false. It's not as great and or ideal as it looks like, so don't you gotta make sure to check yourself I'm not saying that she is indulging in or or subject to foam? We all are at some level but the other thing I would say is purpose doesn't have to be. Be It doesn't have to be sensible career or purpose it can be both and and your purpose doesn't have to be your sensible career, and in in the interim I think purpose is going to be really important for you to be able to get through kind of grinding weeks that are harder to get through and one way of doing that is volunteering or finding some way to connect with something that you do care about so I I would say. Say that there. There are ways to mitigate that in the interim before you kind of make that nimble jump to I think that's a really important point, and we think of like purpose in this binary context again, either in this financially secure career or your living this purpose you know it doesn't have to be that way, and it's not that way you can find purpose in in any in anything that you're doing at any pursuit and if you feel. Bereft of that in your particular career choice, you can find purpose in just trying to be of maximum service to the people that you report to write just doing the best job that you can. Absolutely, you can like Zanny on the the actions. You're taking at work you can. Volunteer as a literacy coach, or something like that or or help people with finances that might need help or people in trouble with their mortgages, whatever it might be yeah and. But Yak Thanks for the question. That's a good one cool. That's what we have man. We did it. We wrapped it. How do you feel? I feel good. I like that we're. We're shaping this thing into something. well, I told you at the outset. Yeah, we could create a structure for it, but ultimately it's going to tell us what it wants to be. And I think we're slowly finding that. Yeah, but I think we're hitting a good stride with this. Yeah and It's always good to be here. Man Thanks for having me of course man. My pleasure will be back in another two weeks. Weeks in the meantime you can fall out them out skolnick. I'm easy to find out ritual everywhere. Don't forget to hit that. Subscribe Button on Youtube Apple or spotify as always. You can find links to everything we discussed today in the show notes on the episode page on my website, average role dot com, you can submit your questions on the facebook group or on the voicemail, four, two, four, two, three, five, four, six, two, six at some point I'll I'll memorize that and tell me you feel about wearing a. Mask and don't tell me anything about your feelings about it, but just where right? All Right? Thanks, you guys I appreciate you. Don't take your attention for granted means a lot that US spend this time with me, and without them every advantage, so appreciate it. Thanks to everybody you help. Put on today's show Jason. Kam Yellow for audio engineering production show notes and interstitial. Music Blake Curtis to my left here for video today show and creating all the clips that we share on social media just Miranda for graphics, Alli, Rogers and David Greenberg who generally do portraits, but no one's here today Georgia weather for copyrighting decay man right over here for advertiser relationships and so much more including taste testing the beyond KFC. Like three of them. and De Music by Tyler, trapper and Ari tighter. Pi trapper Pyatt hurry mouth this, thanksgiving, if you to back here and a couple of days with another amazing episode. Until then, what do you want to sign off with? Don't you do your spot me, yeah. There you go peace plants. Last.