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S3 Ep 5:  Generation Green w/  Jaylin Ward & Ayana Albertini-Fleurant

Think 100%: The Coolest Show

1:07:00 hr | Last month

S3 Ep 5: Generation Green w/ Jaylin Ward & Ayana Albertini-Fleurant

"The one hundred percent next day respect information education bread nick india dot now world is not hit by well. I'm excited let me say i'm excited here. They have always excited to do the coolest show. How people if if if you may be excited to bring on a howard university people to show and that makes me happy one. Because i know that they've had standing long lines in the building so we said that we all said that we also share that The the victory of being a bison and saying h you and you know so let me actually get to these bio so we get right to. I wanna alberti laurente. That's correct. i was working on man. She is a brooklyn native brooklyn by way of massachusetts. She currently serves as co director and director of policy in programming at generation green she graduated with honors from the howard university and twenty nineteen and to be as and political science and environmental studies at. That's amazing right self. After becoming the first graduate of their studies program she returned university to contribute to local to justice research to the curriculum and to assist with establishing a pipeline program for high school students to the howard mementos studies program a this spring semester to serve as course coordinator for intro to remember to studies. Justice offered by howard and the national education equity laugh to title one high school students across the country she has worked with remedy groups such as the sierra club action campaign clean water action and union of concerned scientists in the areas of policy public engagement and program support. I hope to continue her career on the path of this policy movement law an incredible business management in her spare time. I don't know housing at any spare time. But this this amazing resume ianna enjoy singing yoga and incorporated inability to her lifestyle as a conscious fashion and beauty. Blogger on. how will you. I am doing amazing during grayson afternoon. How're you doing. I am doing wonderful. I'm actually this actually here. This looking at some amazing thing. I'm howard now. Let's trying to pull up something on the program that you are now of part of their some history that many of us were part of but before we get into the history of how that program was created. Let's get to jalen Ward is an afro antillean multimedia writer and holistic living student from the bronx new york jalen is currently in their senior year at how investigating and pursuing a bachelor of art in in disciplinary journalism during their tenure at howard jalen brought a farmer's market to campus. I love that. Introducing students to veganism and free and fresh poodles out which we have. We would have had that. That would have been amazing reestablish a public community garden seven ward won elders and black and did the trans people a nominal and co founded that the matt collective make collective a media group promoting black t. q. plus artwork Jalen i now. Director as the as four engagement of generation green. A youth led into generational nonprofit center from a to liberation for black people everywhere. That to me and i am so honored to have both yana and vaillant with me today. So i before i get into the user. I'm sure you've heard this before on the show. I wanna ask who is jalen in. Who is ana. But i i would act. Why did you go to. How university the what you do at a loaded question my church. Home in mount. Vernon a greater centennial african methodist episcopal church and a really promote going to. Hp see us. And i was like. Oh my gosh. They're trying to push this black stuff down my throw like what was going on and then i was like wait. A minute like bears. Some points being made here. So i applied to howard and that was like the only. Hp see i applied to our was not receiving the gospel and Howard accepted me very late like in march and we are supposed to already have our decisions out. Like by april i and it was like march fifteenth in freaking out and i was going to go to gouge your college in baltimore like i a predominantly white school in the mid eighty in the middle of the black city. I know so. I'm very happy. I received the gospel in time to make the best decision of my life. And that's how. I ended up at our men. I'm so glad you did too not not just how this culture then against to be really no no no male here from couch of what we know how it is a is a wonderful institution ianna. Why did you go to out. Wow so the motivation behind me. Going to an hugh. I would say that was really intentional. So Growing up in brooklyn. I was in a mostly Afro-caribbean neighborhood Having to leave brooklyn and goto a suburb north of boston predominantly white upper middle class. It was a really stark contrast in. It was hard for me the whole time. I was there to really like be okay with going to school in dealing with my peers ending with the microaggressions and all of that so I was honesty tired of it. And i did not wanna be around white people anymore So i just set my sights on woolsey h. twos. I applied to a few girls schools as well. But for the most part i applied to a us and my top choice was thumbing but once i got into our with the rat of the scholarship i was like near so yeah i was the first in my high school to go to howard in probably one of the few to ever even go h issue so wow benefit from any of the college counseling services because they did not have. Agc's on the earliest. All so i just kind of do my own research my way and i'm so grateful i did will. Hopefully they do now. Overtake now with the The rice vp hoping they may have the added that one in their little bit. They you know we got or was it for the for the spelman for Abrams crew who are for more. Morehouse quite a few now hoping now that they've they've added some huge offer. The michael regan from north planning n. t An hopefully they added them well. I'm glad y'all both have either attended or are going in our part of my alma. Thank you shooting. How university so now we got that part of your story and we're gonna get to your environmental store. We're going to get all into while you're while you want to save the planet and while you wanna get rid of those fossil fuels in while you want us folk. Have good lena clean water. I wonder about you. You know if folks don't know you know who who are jalen again so you know who is jalen. Were award out. Every day i try to answer. Who is jim ward By as far as my environmentalists story goes I grew up in the bronx was for many. People doesn't seem like you know a place where they are trees and grass and stuff like that and for the most part people are right but we have to realize your environment is your immediate surroundings and I grew up in a place. I was like half and half. I grew up in coop city. So there's a lot of greenery for near age serve On the hutchinson river so grew up seeing a lot of them. Varmint national parks and stuff and conservation being pushed on the child and But then like if you travel a little further uptown. It was just a concrete city as new york is so in. Being a girl scout there was a lot of political action that we would do and community action in that we would do and then we would go camping so it was like a mixture of bows so environmental. Justice was kind of on my plate as a child but we never spoke about it with those terms. It was more so like planning trees. And then you know going to the folks home and making sure they were fed. And that was how i. That's how i i want to say you have to be the first person who ever said they'd connected in. Listen will folk I and i still do that. I still bake sorry. They are at because that's the part i'm it if you don't live near Arkit then you're eating food from the bodega and witches is not. It's not gonna raise your vitality so that was obvious to me. I just didn't have the words for that. So and i didn't have the worse for that and i got to howard when i was like. Where's the supermarket and we did. The farmers market thing and Back progress into me sustaining the garden. We have on campus and connecting with community partners lag sovereign earth which is A queer and trans lack in indigenous group of community gardeners and Hustler harvesters who are formerly incarcerated. Black men who learn like master gardening and master carpentry through jail andrew. Uvc so that's how my environments space has always been. I haven't been in this like you. Climate justice environmental justice white space. Ever i think like once This summer that happen. But i've always been in a black space where where is solving land justice or trying to figure out how to solve that and you know food justice food insecurity and clean water that that's has always been this being is that i was in south. No i love that. A black queer and trans space with returning citizens a dealing with returning our land us and giving us good. Food is an amazing space. A sound beautiful. That sounds very very powerful very different than the space. We have in other middle spaces and so that we know at this doesn't have as much color as will say that. But thank you for that. Where's the garden. So where is the garden listening located on on on howard's kansas. It's near towers. It's literally right next to west towers It's like on sherman avenue and nine street. I that the intersection So towers towers meeting over by mcdonald's right. That's the those. Yeah if you keep walking down. I guess that's called ninth street you. I've seen yes so. I've seen that. I've definitely seen that garden. That's amazing like i saw this. There's there's some new like dorms behind the tower right like like an apartment so we have be those are general housing man and is crazy in. Dc the only way you can get secure and quality. Housing is if you're rich and there is going to be a supermarket underneath you like the only time very secure housing is for rich people. Fast crazy so not assess real justification is a real is a real People don't people don't know that now with thank you for that now. I know these garden so happy to know that garden and that i can know now will be like jalen sent me. That's where they go feel. Why why the hanging up salem jalen. That's why i'm gonna give you the same question and i wanna know like listen. I'm curious also know from you. Know from new york to us this who you are i question on similarly to jalen. I am still entering that But i would say you know I'm a daughter of haitian immigrants I guess being from having that fiery haitian blood and running through my veins. I've always been very passionate was wanted to advocate For what i think is right muslim at home with my parents. When i you know wanted to say speak my mind but also like As i started to learn more about social justice issues and even started to later like learn about be context of Of life the things that i've been exposed to like when i was Thirteen i was able to go to haiti for the first time. And also the dr. And i saw two things in that trip. I saw environmental justice issues in terms of like so. This was a few years after the haitian earthquake rubble the lack of clean water like the deforestation as well in the city But then also we have to. Dr and i saw me my family being the only dark skinned people allowed or not allowed but present in grocery stores presidents Unders like president the downtown area and the only other person that looks like me was were the help the nannies people eighty and haiti or dr only went over to dr. Okay okay. Yaounde went over to the dominican republic so anyway just in that trip like i've saw just i was really exposed to a lot of likes like Systemic like either social justice environmental justice issues and after. I did some when i got back to school. This research on started unpacking. Those things in my papers and things like that. But i think you know just my experience as a black haitian american woman. I've been exposed to a lot of different things. And i will say you know despite not really liking the high school that i went to and having to deal with a lot of racism i was able to tap into the privilege and get a really rigorous environmental science education so once i started learning more about Environmental science and you know all the phenomenon going on like in the natural world in what the human contributions to the crises of climate change plastic pollution. All that were experiencing. I was just like wow like. This is insane. People always talking about this like this. Ticking time bomb So i left that worse Really wanting to Study environmental science college. But i'd all at the same time. I was really passionate about law politics Because i did like a lot of social justice. In race relations work keen high school as well So i kind of have those two interests like okay. I guess have to pick one. You know but once i got into howard. I started off as a political science. Major always interested in studying the environment so I one day. I just randomly walked into the office of housing housing office. Why is there no recycling. Said a why are we not incorporating more environmentally friendly like practices in august at the time. Like now i realize okay. That's just one facet of what. Environmental justice or environmental liberation is a very small fascinated that individual Onus but anyway. I was very like jerry's as to why at an acc we didn't have set up. You were my high school. I was in charge of the recycling right so anyway i was just black. Told a hey you know. Do you want help with that. Like do you wanna take that on. Now's maybe so. After that i was i started working with the howard university green team as president and was working with the administration and at the office of housing to try to like solidify and set up recycling processes and also just to spread like Birmingham awareness throughout campus. We different programming and events so that was really cool my experience in the green team And then shortly after that think the year after be environmental studies program heard whispers about that program starting so once i heard about that program like oh i absolutely have to just add that on to my so i was able to halfway through add on that major and just like i'm so grateful for having that detention at howard because where different from high school education was that is centered equity itami about environmental justice and it expanded greatly greatly expanded what i understood to be Environmental issues like social justice. Social inequity is central to environmental issues and there is the cause really So yeah so then. I you know i started a loved to be set is a loved it that this. I'm glad that would have that program now. And i love that is key to think censoring the experience of People of color and black people From from atlanta looking at the environment which should be natural. I mean this should be this. A natural is beautiful So i just want to say that you mentioned something about to liberation. Can you kinda Talking about that for a little bit. Yeah absolutely so I kind of came up with the term environmental liberation just like with with my work generation. Green bike we are so intersectional. Like we're so multi issue and we all of us understand that you know like kind of like what i said. There's so many different factors that come into play when we're talking about the black environmental experience right. It's not just Cheese animals and it's definitely. It's not even just you know. Hazardous waste facilities and locally unwanted land use. It's it's literally like is stems back from From in history And starts with will not start but you know it definitely involves slavery subjugation colonization An global exploitation along the way So basically. I just really wanted to rian like i really wanted to emphasize the radical nature of what like environmental justice advocacy and frameworks like hand. Be instead of like a reform mostly reform. Back way of going about attaining environmental justice Because ultimately true environmental justice scaled it up to say liberation is just really can be obtained through going through these oppressive systems And continuing to pollute anywhere in continuing to depend on capitalism exploitation and honestly white supremacy. Which is the foundation of how is nation in really how this world so environmental liberation basically puts the star of climate change further back instead of starting at industrial revolution. All of that generation green acknowledged that environmental. Sorry that climate change is really It starts with the slave. Trade is first colonization starts with his feeling of land and displacement in all of that Because that is what we have. Today is a direct outcome so We also think that you know like environmental liberation adequately encompasses all the different Implications of black life in liberation. That are very much dependent on a healthy environment. For instance Our spirituality in jalen indefinitely expand upon this more but Traditionally like african spiritual systems like nature is an integral part of how a lot of traditional african beliefs systems operate. Right even in. Haiti like way that you interact with spirit is through the way that you interact with natural elements. You can revere respects nature right so to have our environments degraded to the point where we can't even like. How can you you know. Hey respect who a river goddess in a polluted river right like. How can you worship Theory in a tree. That has now been deforested. You know and is an endangered species You really can't so it inhibits us from Black people from really thriving and flourishing. Because we're not even able to return to the ways of being that we had like that are in our ancestors Our ancestors embody so Yeah i just think. Environmental liberation is a little bit wider. More all encompassing to all the different Pieces of black life that are so dependent on the environment and were pretty much taken away from us. You know white people being white people and know you said so much there that i really really need to impact would really need to hear. Thank you for that. I mean Environmental liberation is something It's a term that objectively begun to hear more And but still not not hearing enough. And i don't think men who in the in the movement A hearing that and wade is broken. Down is such an important facet of us as as african indigenous People and you connected that I want to get into obviously. Our our culture our spirituality. And then you you. Then you didn't say this but you always bassett is as saying that then when this extractive system Meeting extractive less from our our land of the mentality of obviously fossil fuels before that that that cuts us off from our essence and so we're disconnected and that means as disconnected people. We don't even know that we're disconnected. And if so we're we're we're we're creating of we need liberation because the we've been in the midst of environmental genocide and that's powerful said there It's scary to tell you the truth. I mean it's daunting but cohe everything about it. and callousness of how it's been created It's something that i think that We have to really look into more Thoughts on this. A noah animated. You would talk about smith. I kinda on deputy the spiritual aspect but there's so much more to have you one of this at your your say on. November liberation unspiritual spiritual tip ed's looking at the use of genocide to clear land to create this idea of conce conservation a lot of the removal of indigenous people throughout the americas to create to build up land to create create capital for white people especially white men and then to create national parks around. That is a big issue that punches out indigenous people which include black people in and pushing out formerly enslaved people so when you have the that that creates genocide because people are no longer connected to the land assessors were on their no longer connected to the practices that they're used to to survive. Luckily indigenous people and black people have such great agricultural knowledge. So we've been in this business of seed preservation we've been in this business of adapted jin's everybody wants to eat kale now but that is not endemic to this land that we're on so i think the spiritual aspect is recognizing that there was bloodshed at the hands of white people which is in a lot of spiritual sessoms a sacrifice and that her five has made this crisis. We have exacerbated exacerbated because blood magic intensifies whatever. Whatever i don't want us face bow. Because i don't necessarily whose language for people went around talking about that intensifies of power of your message. So the bloodshed from pushing out indigenous people the bloodshed from enslavement. The shed in the trans atlantic slave trade through that middle. Passage is all a part of reckoning that we have to deal with an a disconnect from our ancestral lands. So we're missing this spiritual connections of people who whose blood we share and people who we've lost and we've never got a chance to mourn so we're kind of living on a graveyard graveyard and we wonder why you know. Natural catastrophe is so fierce and Because we never really got to grieve. And we don't have the knowledge that we once had to protect the land. And i think black indigenous people are doing a great job at protecting the land Black and indigenous people on the frontlines a Land preservation and actual conservation of land from canada to the tip of south america so throughout the continent as well we cannot forget so We're really on the front lines of this and We've never gotten to grieve and climate. Catastrophe is only getting worse. So there's a spiritual reckoning here that we need to address when we talk about environmental liberation as well. Wow why does want to say that. So yellow saying so. Let's the nine. Am i am so in sync with but let me just say this this on the go a little further so that i know for my tradition and my background. I'm also from my parents and from the caribbean. So i have a. There's a there's a you understand. there's a uniqueness particularly and with the culture in that aspect is There who will here. Which is sane both of you salem. And yana in this aspect that They won't understand the connection. You're making from the spiritual sense with the scientific aspects of this because there's a connection there i am that many people wind up i was really was born appearance candidate country. I was born in louisiana down south. They will say to this day. They will say that the sins of the fathers and mothers are causing your weather and causing things to be iraq And so they didn't have the in even by the bipeds movement say he'll the land yielding land in that aspect show but explained i guess for me. What would you say to those who are in the mainstream. Environmental movement are now listening to this podcast with their mouth. Wide open insane. My goodness you know. They're they're literally telling us that That literally which is some part of that our behavior you know Connects to you know destruction planet but it even goes into deeper than that is now. Does your behavior but what you've done to the people on the planet is also creating that destruction as well and sending so y'all got to explain that to them if you want. You don't really have to leave with of happy mac and you're on the podcast so you got to take a cut. He got you here. You gotta get a you know. Open up duquesne up here. So i don't know who wants to go i i say well jail jelly. When you want to go first go ahead go ahead. Have it explained to our our brothers and sisters maybe a lighter hue maybe trip in right now of what is her. So let's let's just one example through agriculture and specifically monocropping and mislead turning over the top soil. When you only plant one crop you create a means for it is these because there is no bio-diversity right and it but monocropping is so important to industrial agriculture because allows you to then make this an export labor to export that you cheap labor and free labor even so that you can get the most bang for your buck right. So that's what america has done with. Corn that's what america has forced central. America do with bananas. And that america has four south america due to do with coconuts and palo santo and king juan even so when we look at how we monocrop and then continuously turn over the topsoil. Were not where first of all we're exploiting people to benefit your capitalistic economy. People die as a effective over working essentially. So now you have blood on your hands right. That's that component. Then you're mistreating the earth because you are essentially creating a means for disease and you're not allowing the necessary Microbiome in the soil to thrive. So you are creating a reckoning for droughts right and disease so that will lead to famine and we've experienced famine We had the great dust storm people lack of experience. That so then on top of that. You have even more blood on your hands because now people are famished. So this is the way we treat. The earth is very directly connected to the lives lost because we are essentially using people as capital. It's called human capital and this is just regularly discussed in economics at using human lives as capital. So when you do that. You are removing people from their environment. You are disconnecting. Humans from plants and animals like as eight up of the same. We don't share some of the same. Dna like we're not just the walking embodiment of the universe's consciousness. So when you separate yourself from the ad when you put yourself in the super ordinate position you're putting yourself in a position to reap and not give back so a lot of the practices that we had in agriculture are extracted. And this is where we get. This extractivism right. And you see this in oil. Just all the fracking causing or exacerbating earthquakes. So there's several examples of this. But i really focused on how agriculture has done that because that is directly connected to the legacy of my ancestors so way to look at it if the simplest way to see it immediately i osceola did not save the nine head. Yeah no i definitely resonated with everything jalen said and to those lighter hue scientists environmentalists. I would just say like if you know anything about environmental science or even biology know that everything's connected Anything that happens in one part of the ecosystem directly impacts another right so just as humans like were spiritual beings biological beings coming from this earth chant neglect to see the effects or the outcome. The spiritual outcome that changing the environment has to us and just has like on the energy as president on this planning You should like the interconnectedness of everything is the basis of environmental science. And i think that stems out to spirituality and energy and all of that as well and I actually want to provide another example about the connection between environment and spirit once again in haiti Just learning some family history. I found out about this trine. Haiti is called the mahboob tree and in haitian woo the mabul tree in it lives One of the most important spirits the spirit. That is pretty much. The head of the new pantheon so this is revered By having to practitioners for that rees right But also at the same time. When i learned about its environmental A importance. I learned that that tree. It's really big and has deep roots and it's really crucial to protecting the island from soil erosion and holding the land down in protecting against Sea level rise right so scientists in mermoz described the tree as you know really like a cornerstone of the ecosystem in haiti and helping to protect haiti from climate change. So just learning about overlap between the importance of it in terms of spirituality and the importance of the environment I just realized why. Like i really feel like a lot of these things murray on And literally any effort to conserve. That tree would be improving not only the environment but be allowing our a patient sue practiced. There's virtually without you know having to worry about that tree being deforested. So ever since ed tree has declined in number because deforestation There's been a noticeable effect in you know like extreme weather events on those things So yeah dishonest as an interesting example of overlap and I do think spiritually because that tree or other parts of the environment. That are very sacred. are being decimated due to the legacy of slavery and the fact. That haiti had played France reparations and you know just the poverty that has resulted. is directly affecting weather patterns. I really believe that you know that is a direct result. Both the spiritual end in environmental end so That's just one example. That i wanted to buy no well. I can't wait to read the article. 'cause there's an article there i can see. Because there's a a compensation for me. We all see the you kind of miss. You mentioned about the importance of hating for liberation of black people on this continent the the use of In that revolution Using blue and using natural mechanisms to become the those armies and spirituality could that have happened to this day. He will know physically. Don't understand how that ragtag bunch of of so-called former slaves would overcome a world power but then didn't even look at they were using and how they were using dismay different things around the natural and the spiritual So i gue-. I'm looking forward to you connecting the dots to to modern day Speaking of day Y'all y'all not waiting to this talk about this from the ivory tower from the academy. Go from the sweets to the streets as well. Y'all out there trying to make make it happen and y'all have created generation green so your code. Ed that what is generation green and had. I can started. yes so generation. Green is an organization that is lack use lead and also intergenerational that we together lack life and lack liberation through in environmental justice. Leads so like i said before. We are extremely intersectional and multi issue. We you know leave in connecting all the different Parts of the barra experience We also believe in connecting to each other generation means started will our founder. This knee hodges She She was just kind of tired of not being connected to other black young environmentalists and to be working in the mainstream environmental world in a very silo capacity And i also resonate with that. You know we treat. Environmental movement doesn't center people doesn't central black life doesn't even frame Climate change as a black issue lack of issue for black abrasion or just black survival. Honest genocide like you said earlier So we just really wanted to be connected to each other in the work that we do And we wanted to amplify what's going on here in the states throughout the caribbean and the continent Exposing you know that environmental justice work involving in the liberation work through media so Network and media are really really core components of generation green. Yeah and joachin can chime in. She she would like to add to that well daily. I want you to chime in. And let me say a couple of things i I love destiny definitely phenomena s hodges founder kkob. edo generation green is also a assistant producer of this year. fired gas cooler show And so she is phenomenal And we definitely appreciate what she brings To this movement. I guess one that you mentioned there. I honored that. I wanna get you. Got her destiny. Tell the story about generation green and you kind of hit on it. And it's the one thing that always i think needs to be reintroduced into the into the space and that simply is that Larch and rodman to say shins do not center their work around either people of color particularly black brown and rich people of color and then not anti racist organisations and that means a then have nullified their position to do that work As a matter of fact they can hinder the work. Because you don't come from a position of understanding The importance of black labs in the story of our environment than you are not in that position to do that work And so that means that and some cases even you're not only at is with The the the the the problem you had is with us too as well because you are then any position possibly taking resources and infrastructure. That should go to those who understand what that means so this we will keep it wiki one hundred years. Why we we had. We had this platform we keep it one hundred one hundred so i guess i just i want i guess daily i see you on your head. Please get into this. i mean you know. That's a very very very serious indictment of what what you're saying. Why generation green was. It wasn't all women fuzzy. This is something because you know you know why not. It's nice and we want to be here. Yeah you know be you know. We literally found which you're doing to be harmful and harmful to black people which means that black people will die because of what you're doing and we need to then create other resources and mechanisms hence we are going to create generation. Green is ever right. Jalen that i in catholic that correctly on the head and i would go even further to say that. They're a part of the problem by bay. Our problem became if you. There's no way to ignore these things you. I don't believe that i'm not falling for that. There's no way to ignore the harm that this has on black life and that this even stems from believing that you can harvest people so if you in that and go well the earth is everybody's problem you know. I don't see color in this like it's impossible today you have to be. Cognizant of these things is impossible. Do this work and ignore that. That means you aren't doing the work that means. You are an advocate for the state. It sounds like to me. Oh i think That's why generation grain is Here that's why we showed up because apart from politics apart from governance. We are focused on community while we need. First and foremost and recognizing that that looks different intergenerational and based on temporal dimensions and based on location so we definitely are intentional about the departments that we have and the education that we received to run them responsibly. And being very conscious of how we come from a nonprofit startup who is meddling in sport communities in asking. Where do you need making sure that. We're not absorbing are colonize environment and just being brain national about how we uplift and fortify communities all over the world. So if you're not doing that work here you're part of the problem and you are the problem. Komo free scope briefing bring that bring that ring that oh man. I love it We went this town. Goes so bad so fast i i had. I had a couple more questions now. I noticed something. You're amazing piece in here. I think a very important. The one. I just wanna really get you. Is this with what would what would you see as a russian green being successful in other words if you now can kinda wave your your your your your magic on so to speak and you can say that this is what we need to be successful What would that be and anthony. I on this. I thought a little caveat. This little caveat in it is very important. There are a lot of us who have become reliant on the system and they may also be threatened by this kind of how what we're saying right now because that has become kind of their own pipeline. They even understand what it means. They may tell us. Oh y'all foolish children this come on this. Is this getting line. You know you'll be back when you get you'll come back you'll be when these nice big greens working and you're you're you're not saying that. So what does the vision for duration. Green look if you can. Wow wildest what does success look like. What does it mean for version green to successful at what you're doing. Yeah that's a heavy question Definitely there's a lot of people who actually think they're part of the solutions movement. Who actually wouldn't like to see What we think of as success for this movement for generation right so i think success specifically for generation. Green looks like contributing. Our whole Frameworks to the movements. That we intersect with We're sort of like a either of different movements. So whether that be environmental justice black liberation use climate movement. Were we've And reunify lack people's route them to build collective Power in order to establish restorative systems and resilient communities really hope to democratize and distribute the knowledge and tools that are needed support liberation and rarest rations or black people doing this work throughout the diaspora And i will say you know. We intend to address the root causes of environmental issues environmental justice issues as we do this work and the big green deal. They play a very dangerous game of silencing and whitewashing that to the point where honestly like many black use black folks like when you really would to ask them you know. Do they see their values. Were selected in the mainstream environmental movement. Many win when resonate with right just based on the type of The portrayal of environmentalism. That having your mainstream media and through the work that these nonprofits to right and the type of people they allowed to be myspace allowed to speak As the face of these movements so we're talking about youth environment on youth climate end like the national environmental groups so that disconnect. I think honestly. I think that's intentional. Like that. disconnect is What can make a lot of black people you know. Like not see. The their experience really reflected in environmental movement and really Really captured by and like as we've been Stating in this in this interview In climate change and environmental degradation mainly affecting the continent. It's mainly affecting black music. West and the caribbean and south america. Mainly because just being in a black body your that comes with so many inequities and to store all cumulated disadvantages that place you in toxic environments that you know limit your access to fresh healthy foods and this is consistent like really throughout the world so for us we really just want to refrain. what's going on and put in a black liberation leads take action that's abolitionists to To the point where we hopefully will need generation green right anymore. that's really our ultimate goal And also i just wanna say lastly you know having the use black news need. This woman is also crucial because We're inheriting the most time on spent on this earth in its current state So all the decisions being made political environmental decisions All of those consequences are reflected in the earth that we're inheriting and We have to grapple with. Is it even safe for us. To have. Kids like is even by. Can we buy a house in this city. Or is it going to get flooded because the sea level rise like there's so many things we have to contend with within our lifetime and i think we're really unique generation are one of the first really live. Probably most of our lives in a world Marks by climate change So it's really important to have the lead those decision making processes because it affects us like inherently So i'm kind of went around all over the place. No no no. You went right where you when to go to. That was that was all right now. That was that was that was powerful. And thank you for that actually man. I really hope we have some time in the future because y'all opened up a whole lot of cans of worms. That thing and hopefully people will get into this. Because i think we need that. We need the further. These conversations Because i think it is a new way of looking at it. It's one alto you personally. I'm willing to die for my people hundred percent. I'm willing to die for my people. Him so I want to give it all under the free and what you're basically saying that ain't nobody free to everybody. I am so if they if they got back bad water than i got to. They don't got no grocery store and living in and food deserts or places in that nature. Then we gotta to. It's just that whole mentality and so I with you. A hundred percent on that availa. How can we find generation green. And if you want to add anything onto fester said rated. Please please add that into the conversation. Yeah i'd like to add that. We also can't do his work. Without including people who are already experiencing climate change outside of america. We cannot make this an american message the including the diaspora seeing this as like a community of people. Worldwide is very important to this movement because people are ready experiencing climate change. It is not coming in twenty thirty. It is happening right now. So you can find generation green to hold us accountable to that message On instagram generation underscore underscore green and on twitter generation underscored g. and you can hit my email jalen dot ward at gen bash green dot org and hit me up like jalen. You was talking real big about involving the diaspora. Here's my organization and if you don't wanna send directly to me you can hit our website. Gen dash green dot org and send his own message loud. And if i want to give a little bit of some dockets some money to support is good work. Would i go to send a few few dollars away at a few options. You could a hit our cash app. Uk hit our pay pal. But you should really hit. Our website is streamline experience we have a go fund me but used the streamline experience of our website There's a donate button very easy. I want to add to that. I know that Lot of foundations have been sharing the coolest show. Thank you for that but for doing that. We appreciate you but The reason why we have the show so you can hear from those on the cutting edge. I just wanted to kind of reinforce me to you listening. We are one of these. Big foundations Lee support generation green and their work. There this is important. And i say that because a lot of folks are going to be intimidated or frayed of the conversation. This is what we need to succeed but want to win. All climate is going to have to come through this land. So i hope that is a good A resounding endorsement revenue. But i hope that you have you have that folks. Were listening right. Now you will support this amazing organization That hopefully you. I'm an old geezer. Let me arriving once in a while and hang out with them and and and we get. We could talk climate stuff in liberation and abolition everything. Before you go you can't you can't go We ended last question. I got because you know. I had you know you know besting who was a of in. Recent green is producer here. We asked this question. I ask her her her. Her top songs She had to artists. Who if all you can take with you in the end. The bag that hate all you can take to. You can't ain't nobody else with you. This is this is it. Then who are the two artists you're going to carry with you In you know far the catalog would your gift to though you only get to The two that decifit was she picked to one and Frank ocean those are the two Dalen scu is when. I said frank ocean as he looked as Otherwise he might have put in your catalog so you can go first then. Who who would you flip into. Who office you would say With you yeah. Whatever oriya plays the drums and yeah. I think yeah. That's really hard. And i thought about hope. I was warned about this. But i can't do it enough so you are you taking this to drums. Yes whatever racial plays the drums and yemen yards so she can give me the ninth sound sweet water an ocean and you know chango throw some lightning for me and we got the music going on right. That's how i like the natural sounds and i know. Why are you going with that or do you have artist. You're gonna bring with you for your phone. Oh yeah this is really a hard question I really dislike favor. Artists song questions but I will say i will little cliche. I'd say beyond say because one of us for one of them. Just because i think you need her has karmic past life connections. We really We have a lot of the same astrology placements and resonate for her. So obviously beyond those reasons In that i would say chaitra nada. He's adding itching canadian. Dj he doesn't actually Is kind of a back door. Because he doesn't actually sing rapper. Anything he just makes beats and a like the beats and sometimes all you need. You know vibe outs that Any a lot of different artists that actually staying on his song. So i'll say. Oh i like i like both the answer. I'll i'll give you a little fun fact here. Our producer of the coolest show. A cross actually helped create our climate album Which which was called home heal our mother earth in which we have artists Comments neo crystal waters. Anthony smith i bring this up because one of the artists was going to be on. The album was johnson and his album. Yes beyond his album. Her song sang. Castle is actually an environmental song at his on that she was writing four and then it got caught up in all the and all the stuff that music stuff gets caught up in to get cleared and so it didn't get cleared in time and as he put it on her album. Elimidate actually so Yes there's a fun fact for you that that actually sandcastles is an environmental song. That caucus was Working with and believe use of actually wrote the hook sedan. So there you go. There's beyond saying climate music fun fact song and no daily you can't you can't add beyond say to your to your listing here. He got that but not say environmental Undershot never told me that. Because now i feel even more connected to her and is definitely yeah. I also wanna say her song her song aside from the black album. The lion king album otherside that like when i listen to that i think like in terms of climate anxiety or like hesam. Ism like i listened to that. It's like you know like we'll make it on the other side of these disasters these crises in like we gotta continue fighting for like you know the generations coming after us so that song. I'm like burnt-out from my work. Best on any sad but it gives me some motivations as want to play that into being she was thinking of climate change that no love no yellow phenomenal man. We got so much more to talk about. And that is on what you do definitely appreciate gel And those are my guest today. Ianna albertini laurente and jalen would both from the awesome group than ration- green and i am ravioli. Would your host of the coolest show which you heard on this. The podcast on your favorite podcast. Fake one hundred and hip hop on instagram twitter and facebook. Visit the coolest shove dot com where you can take acts of justice right arm. You can also learn more about this podcast and donate to fake one hundred percent. We'll say thank you for listening and all indian.

jalen howard haiti howard university brooklyn national education equity sierra club action campaign cl jalen Ward howard jalen centennial african methodist e michael regan yana coop city hutchinson river salem jalen Jalen Yaounde caribbean Study environmental science co office of housing housing offi
Amanpour: Robert Caro, Ayelet Gundar-Goshen and Emilio Estevez

Amanpour

57:31 min | 2 years ago

Amanpour: Robert Caro, Ayelet Gundar-Goshen and Emilio Estevez

"Every year over six hundred thousand people enter prison gates in America. Go behind the numbers of mass incarceration. In America, with me van Jones on my new podcast incarceration, Inc. Subscribe now wherever you get your podcast, this, Jimmy Butler, see himself as a belief, the saquon Barkley thing he can be the greatest running back of all time. Well on my new show, take it there with Taylor rooks out. Get all those answers from your favorite athletes. Tune in on the be our app for new episodes every week. Hello, everyone and welcome to almond for his what's coming up. By at Eighty-three, legendary biographer Robert Caro has written a new book, and it's not his long-awaited final volume on Lyndon Johnson. I'll ask him why this book now and another writer who probes the consequences of power on the psyche. I speak with the Israeli author and psychologist I yell at gun to go Shen who's us, then America's forgotten poor rise up in the public, a new movie by director and writer Emilio Estevez stop. Welcome to the program everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in New York robot Carro is perhaps America's greatest living biographer his iconic books on the life of president Lyndon. Baines Johnson and Robert Moses the man who built New York in the last century have won every major award while setting a new standard for insightful dynamic, nonfiction writing now at Eighty-three karaoke gives us a glimpse inside his own prodigious writing process in his new book, working, he shares, his enormous drive to turn every page talk to every witness uncover every fact in pursuit of historical truth. But while working is a valuable look back at Caros life work, it is frankly not the book his fans were hoping for. And that would be the long awaited fifth and final volume of his series, the years of Lyndon. Johnson back in twenty twelve Caros loss. Book left us dangling off the. Cliff just as Johnson becomes stuck in the Quogue Meyer of the Vietnam war, but bulk Carro has never rushed to finish book, and he's certainly not about to start. Now. I've been talking to him here in New York. Trying to discover his quite unique working life. Robot cara. Welcome back to the program. Pleasure to be here, and he's always good to check in with you. I wanna talk though about your life's work your mission. The not necessarily just your incredibly eminent subjects, you have quite a slow writing pace. Right. I mean, let's say if you calculated about a book, every decade, the right in your face the research takes time is that what it is? So once you've done all the research you've pretty much like an engine. Well, I write my first stray offs in lawn because that's really the slowest way of committing your thoughts to paper. And then I go, let's say I do a lot of drafts. But what is it about the research? I mean, clearly as you said, you spend a huge the big proportion of your time on a book on the research. Give me an idea of why it tastes. Eight ten years to just to do the research. Well. One thing is that there's such a massive papers in the Johnson library. You know, when you go in there you're faced with four floors of boxes, they have forty thousand boxes of papers. They don't they've never counted, the pages. But it's about forty five million pages. Can I stop you right there? You attending me, an anecdote which seamlessly leads me into an element of something. You did see span many years ago talking about this part of your research. There's just take a listen. You looking at four floors. I don't know how many feet these boxes go back, but it's a lot each of those boxes can hold a lot on. Fortunately, do eight hundred pages. So the Johnson library today says they have forty four million documents if you'd be forty four million pieces of paper what we're really living here. Thanks to you is the first moment. I saw. My heart really sunk. I'd what was the head of my? Johar sunk. What was the head of you? Talk about Johnson, the man in a moment. But again on the process of, of your work faced with all of that, and you seem to act on a piece of advice that an edited gave you a long time ago. Turn every page there was my first piece of advice, I had never done investigative. Work before. And by accident I was thrown into something and faced with a whole room full of files from the Federal Aviation agency and I fell in love that night. I really love doing the for us. I wrote this memo, I left it for the real reporters, and then the next Monday, the managing editor who's a tough old guy out of the twenties. Call his secretary called said Alan wants to see you right away. I said, the I know. Thank god. We didn't move. I'm going to be fired wife. I know my wife's there was also your collaborator. My the soul she's the whole team. She's the only person besides myself that I've ever trusted to do research. See you both do research together. Yes. Which is pretty amazing. But again turn every page I mean that's literally when I watched that clip and I'm a pretty thorough journalist, I haven't written boost by the pretty thorough journalists the idea of going through that amount of. Inflammation is truly daunting. But you find you know, if you turn if you follow his advice, and you try to turn every page not at all those boxes. But in this the subject that you're talking about, you can find stuff like this secret of how Lyndon Johnson. He comes to Washington when he's twenty nine and he has, he's a junior congressman has no power all of a sudden something changes. You see this as you're going through the letters in the beginning of the first three years, he's writing to committee chairman, please give me five minutes of your time after October nineteen forty they're writing him, please. So I said to Tommy Corcoran, who is this old Washington fixer said what happened in October? Nineteen forty he said, money kid money, but he said, you're never going to be able to write about that kid, I said, warned ninety because Lyndon Johnson never put anything in writing. So I'm remembering this advice. I got and I said well in those boxes that cover. This period, I'm going to turn every pet says worn innocuous letter unit you sit there saying, I'm just wasting another three weeks of my life. And then all of a sudden, he did put something in writing. It's really interesting because just the way you recount this, and the forensic way you get to that by going through these enormous boxes just to find this one thing. I mean, that's a lot of dedication. I mean obviously, that's what separates you from the boys. And what's made you the go-to biographer set me on, on your to major major subjects, I guess, for you. There was no other way to do it. Because you said that you don't believe in truth necessarily exists. But what do you believe I believe, there are a lot of facts, and the more facts, you get too close. You come to whatever truth, there is. And that's the only way to do it. Well, for whatever reason that's the way, I something in me. That's the only way I can do when I was a reporter. I couldn't stand to write a story when I. Still had a question tag us. And I, I read in terms of questions. You'll you're questioning you've taken a few tricks from some literary sort of heroes and characters right from George smiley. Jonah Keri from Simmons Magrey. What is it that you took from those veterinary fakers? Well, I took from them that when they want somebody to talk they, they showed up. So if you looked in my notebooks, you'd see a lot of I write SU that means shut up. That means if you don't say anything, maybe the score you're interviewing will feel the need to fill the silence and tell you something he didn't really want to tell you, so you is heading SU to yourself. That is your memo to self all the time. Yes. See that's pretty extraordinary because I'm sure I'm guilty. And many, many certainly TV interview as guilty of talking too much. Well. Not you. He says, is it difficult to s you. I mean, do you have to control yourself? That's why I write it down. Because I have the urge to talk US good question. Maybe it's a tough question. The guy's not doesn't want to answer it. There's a silence you wanna break because you union, I right? Instead of breaking it I right S, you be ruins me just showed up and you'd be amazed. I mean, you're a great interviewer. You'd be amazed at how many times after a while, he tells you what you want to know you took on Robert Moses, he was your first big character. Yes. And he of causes the master builder of New York he created Neo. 'cause we know it is starting in the middle of the twentieth century. What was it about him and about delving into him? I mean, it's kind of a dry topic here was a guy who is we live in a democracy. So, supposedly power comes. From the ballot box from the votes, we, here's guy who was never elected to anything in his life. He had more power than any mayor more power than any governor more power than the mayor and governor combined. And he held his power for forty four years, half a century. You know, if you drive on a highway in and around New York, they're all built by the same man and it suddenly occurred on to me. I don't understand where he got this power and neither biz anybody else, and that's why I set out to write a book. I didn't set out to write just a biography of Robert Moses, I wanted to know what was the form of power that he created. But how did he do it? I mean they were obviously, like in any development, we see even today, you know, there's some neighborhoods that have to be raised to the ground some, you know, real people's everyday lives are disrupted in the name of progress in the name of development. He built six hundred twenty seven miles of road. I. Started to take one mile that he ran through a neighborhood in the Bronx called these stream on and see what the Uman cost of that was, it was so sad because it was a to me because it was a neighborhood people had made they would not well off. They were mostly Jewish, but some Irish some German is long as they have their community. They had a nice life. I would go to interview them where he had thrown them out to fifteen thousand people coop city little little apartments living with their kids. You're talking about areas of the city here. I'm sorry. And you know, in my notebooks, the word that's written because they said it to me. I heard it over and over is just lonely. You know, and I feel no one ever laws about that word if you say lonely, you're lonely, you, and it's very, very big issue today, and some of these developments are not helping in the loneliness epic, because community now we know is vital and to break up communities is very, very difficult. I wonder. Did you find postal financial pressure in taking this long? Right a book. I mean how much did an advance cover? I used to kid around that I knew that I had the smallest through world, smaller students who was five thousand dollars of which they gave me twenty five hundred after about four, we will. So I got a grant dot got us through one year than we had no money. So we sold our house on Long Island that, that was before the real estate, boom. So we cleared twenty five thousand dollars that got us through a second year. And then they were just several years of weary members just being broke. And after about five years, I asked my editor you know, I had given them half the manuscript half a million words, I said, can I the other twenty five hundred dollars? He said, Ohno Bob. I never forget, these words, I guess she didn't understand me. We all like the book we want you to keep going. But nobody's going to read a book on Robert Moses, so you'll have to be prepared for very small printing. That was the worst night, then it was beyond your wildest dreams. The printing, right? Well, it's, it's it wasn't an immediate bestseller. But it's now I think they just told me in it's fifty. Fifth printing. Yeah. Well, look your best best best sellers have been you'll volumes on Lyndon Johnson. Those are being, you know, that, that is the gold standard on Lyndon Johnson. So as you can imagine your legions of fans had hoped that your next book, that we would be sitting here talking about volume five you'll final volume on Lyndon. Johnson and the Vietnam war. But it isn't. No. You didn't do. None of upset, people, why not. They want that book. Well, I didn't take all that long. Chris, what happened was, I'm right. In saying, I get asked about, when am I going to put I also get asked if you followed me around a lot of times, I get is what's it like to do research? What's it like to into what can you find out from interviews? What do you what's it like to go through all these papers? I said, well, you know, I'm going to just in case I'm going to put some thoughts about that. That's why the so this is sort of a stopgap measure. Well, it's, it's in, in its own way. It's, it's about me, you know, it's, it's, it's not about him. It's about me, but it's not a stock that I think if people want to get a glimpse into how I work. What I try to do is give them enough of a glimpse. So they can tell how old are you now? Eighty three and you still going strong. You're still pounding out the woods, you've done this one. Are you gonna get to finish the fifth volume? Well, let me say, I don't focus on not being able to finish, but I'm working on it, it, it's well on the way and. Let's say we're gonna finish so to that end you at one point moved the family to Texas. Is that right? I never annoy moved to Texas. Yeah. Son chases away college, but moved your wife and yourself to Texas just to write about Lyndon Johnson. Well, we I was starting to I thought that I knew about Johnson's youth, because at the time I started these books there were already seven by biographies of Johnson. But when I started to interview these people in the hill country, it's so lonely and isolated. I mean you might get the direction to interview somebody, they'd say where you go, forty seven miles west divorced, and look for the cattle guard turn left and then you go like thirty miles on, on paved road and you suddenly realize, I haven't passed the house in thirty miles these people were so lonely. They were so unused to talking to strangers. And also, I wasn't understanding them and I said to a, you know, we're going to have to move here for until I learn this area moved to the hill country. I said 'cause she writes books on France, we love power. She said, why can't you write a biography of Napoleon love that? He has a good sense of humor. What did you learn from them, the people who you hadn't understood the people who are vital to interview to know about your subject Johnson, where you learn two things really are you? Learn on the one hand how ruthlessly was even as a young man in college. Black mailing a young woman who is running for the student council to get her out of the race. Because if some indiscreet remarks that, that she made, you know, on the other hand you learn about his incredible capacity. You know, a lot of people talk about compassion, Lyndon Johnson, had true compassion, but he had something that's even rare. He had the ability to turn compassion into governmental laws that helped people. So this was an area without electricity. When are we were still talking to the to the women who had to live their lives without electricity? He gets he runs for congress. He. The women were all bent in stoop. You know what his loin was when he ran for congress? He says, if you vote for me, you won't look like your mother looks I and it worked, and he brought them electric. And you really said, if you're, you know, you say this is impossible, you know, there's not a dam built to bring electric. He's got to get the damn Bill. He's got the rural electrification administration to lay thousands of thousands of lawyers to these lonely, and he did an amazing thing. Have you ever seen the likes of that kind of governmental genius since since? No, I mean, I know you don't like to talk about politics. But I wonder if you have like one sentence about why the system seems to be broken today, we always hear various presidents wants to talk about infrastructure. I want to do the right thing, and yes, it's the ad. It's very difficult. If not impossible to do, well, when you look at it is, you know, the Senate is a whole, I wrote a whole book. On how the Senate works because it's a whole different world and Lyndon Johnson, found ways, you know, the leader before Johnson, the hadn't work since the days of Webster clay and Calhoun. That's eighteen fifties. The Senate hadn't worked same dysfunctional mess. It is today until he becomes majority leader in nineteen fifty four immediately. He becomes immaturity. The Senate becomes the center of governmental creativity and ingenuity and energy, it's not Eisenhower civil rights, Bill. It's Lyndon Johnson. Civil rights, Bill. He leaves to become vice president after six years for six years, the Senate work immediately, the Senate is the same dysfunctional mess as I today, and it stayed that way, can I ask you about interviewing his brother and getting to the heart of the family story through Sam, Houston Johnson? I believe, and at one point you take him. Him to. I think the family house. And you sit in around the family table in his childhood position by his own next zone father because by that time I knew that whatever may Lyndon Johnson this incredible. Human being a lot of it had to do with his relationship with his father who was very respected legislator, and then failed and they lost the Johnson ranch and Johnson grew up the rest of his boyhood in real poverty where where they were worried every month that the Bank was going to take their, their house away, so Sam Houston with Hore to get to talk. So I persuaded the National Park Service to let us go into the Johnson family boyhood home, which was recreated just as it was when they were when they were kids after the tourists were going, and I took him in around dinner torn because I knew it was at dinnertime that the farther inland, then would have these horrible arguments, and I sat b. Behind them because I didn't want him to see. I warned him to feel like he was a kid again. And then I asked them, tell me what it was like at dinner, and the things that poured and then at the end of my end this I said now because he recreated an argument between his father and Linda at the end of the rest of now Sam, Houston. Tell me all those wonderful stories that you told me and it will his friends told me just give me a few more details. There's this long. Silence. And then Sam Houston says, I can't. And I said, why not? And he said, because they never have. That's, that's that is an amazing story. So we've talked a lot about Lyndon Johnson successes. I guess the big failure was Vietnam. And this is the book that you're yet to complete. Yes. What are we going to? None about that, that we don't know their yes. Great questions. But I hope people will learn, but I'm trying to show. Is how does a great nation get into a mess like this. You say he sent almost six hundred thousand six think of the six hundred thousand men, the fight in a jungle war in Asia half the world away. It goes on for years. We he dropped more bombs on Vietnam. Then we dropped on Germany, and this is a you know, rural country. I hope I'm trying. I don't say I'm going to succeed. I'm trying to show how we went down this terrible path. What would you say remembering the cub reporter Robert carry that you were in the fifties? Well. That person and any of us about what you've learned about power political power, and how it's wheeled it in the people who wielded. Well, I don't know. I tell you something, I rather approach Issing. What have I learned about writing about power? I learned if not enough to write about the powerful men who wielded you have to write also about the power less. What's the effect on the people without power who are -ffected by government either their lives have changed for the better or for the worse either? Robert Moses or Lyndon Johnson, brought them something or if they stood in their way room and. I feel that you have to show as I said, not just the powerful. But the powerless otherwise books about power are somewhat incomplete. That's marvelous. That's really really really important lesson. Robert cara. Thank you very much. Indeed is always a pleasure very much. Thank you. Hi, I'm Bill Kristol feeling confused about politics, who isn't. That's why I host my podcast conversations with Bill Kristol. They have thoughtful conversations with leading figures in politics and public policy we reflect on where we are. And we consider where we're going subscribe at, I tunes, wherever you get your podcast and check out our archive for conversations with guests like Mike Murphy, David Axelrod. Ron brownstein and Paul Begala. No spin no soundbites just thoughtful real conversations. Please do subscribe today to conversations with Bill Kristol tired of spending hundreds of dollars for prescription glasses, our friends at Zanny optical offer a huge variety of high quality stylish frames state of the art optics starting at just six ninety five you can get multiple frames with this great pricing for less than one pair. Elsewhere start building your eyewear wardrobe from the comfort of your own home at Zanny dot com. With the latest trends in eyewear available in hundreds of frame, styles and materials. There isn't a better way to. Change it up for every season. Plus, there's any offers prescription sunglasses at incredible prices. Visit Xeni today at Xeni dot com slash ready that Z E N N I dot com slash ready. Remember to create an ad like this one, visit pure winning dot com slash CNN. Now on any list of Mazda, full political power players. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu ranks right up, then the talk and now as the clock ticks closer to the Israeli election, the betting is that Israel is will reelect Netanyahu for a fourth consecutive term. That's despite in facing indictment for multiple counts of bribery, and fraud. The polls show a tight race. So as dive into the psyche of these Rayleigh people right now with my next guest, I yell at gonna Gauchan is a prominent Isreaeli, author and psychologist, whose work explores the many currents and fault lines in Israel society from ten Aviv. She tells me why she thinks Netanyahu is integrated his own political narrative into Israel stories, so successfully, I n had gun to go Gauchan, welcome to the program. Hello, good to be here. I'm really fascinated by your specific. Take. On your own society because you're an author under psychologist, and you write very deeply about the society. You live without being overly political. I just want to start by putting you'll country Israel in the psychologist Chet, it's the patient. What is your professional diagnosis? Well, I think if I had to see Israel as a patient, then I would say this patient suffers from severe post traumatic stress disorder mean you have a nation that suffered a severe trauma, not just talking about the trauma of the holocaust. I'm talking about very complex trauma of two thousand years of exile, and then even though the situation changed and the trauma is no longer present at the moment, we still feel that the trauma is here right now. So it is if the past is occurring again. And again, even though the real situation is very much different than what it used to be. We're no longer in. Existence threat as we were in second world world. But we still feel that we suffer from this threat, and this shape and the whole way we act. So let's ask you to tell us why this is the case. If we are no longer as you say, in that particular kind of existential threat, then why do is release fear so much? And why do they believe that they're under existential threat? So you've said and it's true Israel has one of the greatest stories ever told from exodus to today, and you've told hard talk, for instance, other interviews and objective fact can be turned into a myth, and then later into a story not told by professional storytellers, but by politicians in order to keep reality as it is right now, explain what you are trying to say. Well, I think if you look at today's greatest Isreaeli storyteller, it wouldn't be authors like almost author, David Grossman. It would be. Our prime minister it would be Binyamina Danielle, he's the best storyteller of our time. And he's telling the Israeli public this very compelling narrative. And I think it's compelling because it's, it's a very simple narrative. You know, it's like the kids stories that I read to my little kids, you have the ultimate good being these rallies, you have the ultimate bad being the Palestinians, this story views, the Palestinians is sort of reincarnation of previous traumas so that we had king Ferro, and then we had Hitler and now we have them and it's a very compelling story. But this is not this is not reality. Reality is much more complex than that. And in reality is really people I mean, we're still victims right now, but we're victims of our own anxieties and over our own fear. I think we are now the victims of the fact that we don't try to initiate, a peace process that even the word peace is today considered as as an. Word. We don't even say the word anymore. We say an agreement, so I think Netanyahu did a very good job in de legitimizing. The is rarely left and the idea that you could actually tried to negotiate and to solve this conflict rather than to relive it again. And again, and again, you also said a new liken your writing almost attending a friend that they have food stuck in their teeth. In other words that you're trying to tell a story not to attack you nation in your state, but actually to be a good friend and yet, you're called a traitor, by those who, don't believe what your point out, is, is reasonable that what you're doing is simply attacking the state of Israel. What is the you said, Israel is in a state of severe PTSD? But do you feel you a writing narrative that does not comport to the way, the majority of his Railly's feel and believe today? I think we're trying to tell a story, which is far more complicated than the one of Netanyahu, but also than the one portrayed by s. Yes. We usually people go for stories, which are really like the Disney film villains. You know, you have to admit good and ultimate evil and Netanyahu would say, the good is us. And the evil is them and then some parts in the BDO to talk about, you know, the termination of the entire Israeli state say that the hall, Isreaeli state, not just the acute patients is the ultimate tick colonializing evil. And I'm sorry. I know it goes very well in cinema. But I think we life is more complicated than that. And we're trying to, to suggest a much more complicated narrative. But right now, we're, we're failing to, to make people take this leap of faith, and comeback into into negotiating and I think perhaps one of the reason is that people into left are viewed today by many other people in these really society because of Netanyahu, we're viewed as as traitors as self hating Jews, and I don't think of myself as a traitor, on the contrary. I think that we are. The biggest patriots of this country thinks you need to really love someone in order to, to come and tell him that she has food stuck in your teeth or I always think that I can go and tell my mother that I think she did something wrong because she's my mother and I love her. You wouldn't try to argue or fight with someone that you don't deeply care about in a way feel. It's like if your friend was driving a car while his drunk, then you do whatever you can to make him stop driving the car over a cliff. And right now, the entire state is being driven over to cliff by people who drank too much of propaganda, you know, fanatic propaganda. You know, I, I just want to bring up this, quote, almost all said the core of the Israeli Palestinian conflict is a clash between right? And right. And often it's a clash between wrong and wrong. And you you've explained you know, in your own metaphorical way, what that means, but it's so interesting. What you say because it. Leads to the topic, for instance of your latest book the lion in which you talk about a rape. And you, you that is the central part of the beginning of your book, and it's a false accusation, tell me why you wrote that why that was the the nugget of your book, particularly in this era. Well liar is based on a real story that I heard of an retrain migrant, who was accused by an Israeli girl of sexually assaulting her. And I was halved by everyone because she was considered, you know, this, this hero. And then when she eventually confess that this didn't really happen. She was denounced by everyone who I hugged her. And when I heard the story I thought this is too easy to give the collective how to the Victor and then to call this lady monster moment after we learned the truth because maybe she's not a monster. Maybe she's just. A person who got confused. I mean maybe people lie not necessarily because they're bad. But because they can't handle the truth and being an author, you know, always try not to judge make characters, but you really try to understand them. So when I wrote liar, I asked myself, why is it that people make such life? Not just this real case of the golden made up this story about a sexual assault. But also, I mean, all people lie lying is such a terrible social crime. If you call somebody a liar. It's a huge insult. But then again we all lie on a daily basis. And I'm very interested in this ambiguously, how can something be so bad, but at the same time be so present in our everyday life, while it is extraordinarily because you did ask a lot of people if they remember their first lies. And do you remember us what was your first lie? Well, my first one I'm not sure I remember my first one, I think there were so many after that I forgot my first one, but one of the biggest lies I think I told as, as a child was. I grew up in a in a neighborhood until Aviv, where you had a whole lot of holocaust survivors. And most of the kids had a grandparent, or grandmother, who, who was a holocaust survivor, and they came to the school, and they told us the stories of how they survived the camps, and, you know, being very young child and not really understanding. Why was that? I heard I actually remember myself feeling jealous had the best friend who, who had her grandmother surviving Auschwitz and my grandparents didn't I mean, we had family members in the holocaust. But nobody from the first circle, and I ended up learning out that I do have a grandmother, who fought the Nazis. And I took it a little bit too far. She didn't just escape Auschwitz in my story show. So kill the few German soldiers. I think it was one of the biggest lies I ever told as a child, it's really revealing. But what happened? What did you grandmother, say? I mean you. Must have been found out. Yes, I was, I was caught and very briefly afterwards because the story was so good that they asked me to bring her to class to share the story to, to give a testimony in front of everyone to tell them this. So I had to, to, to tell her what happened, and she was obviously furious because she knew this was not just stories. This was the real life and experience of so many people and used it as a story, but I think she also really had a lot of compassion. She also understood, you know how jealous or how lonely child can get to make up such a lie. And that was when she gave me my first notebook she gave him a notebook, and she said, if you want to tell stories you can write you can write you, you don't say to people, you declared him stories. It's so interesting to Hugh talk about all of this. I want to bring it full circle. Now again in terms of the lies in terms of the storytelling. You know, you will have an election result in a week in a week's time. And I wonder if you can just sort of riff on what Gabriel Garcia Marquez wrote about truth, and lies, ally is more comfortable than doubt. More useful than love more lasting than truth. Do you agree and you see that as a political narrative? Yes, I think, you know, nations are built on stories stories are the glue that keeps millions of people together, you can call this stories narratives or myth. You can call these stories lies and, you know, sometimes this common stories that we share glued together to, to wonderful causes like, like the miracle of the foundation of Israel. I do think it's a miracle, but then again, sometimes story can be very, very dangerous. Sometimes the story that glues people together is continue once again to victim. But, you know, now you're the victim of your own story fascinating. It's been so interesting to talk to you a yellow conversation. Thank you so much indeed for joining me. Thank you for having me. Her latest book, the lion will be released in the United States this September and it's already available in the United Kingdom. And here's some good news for fans of America. In pop culture, immediate estimates is back in the library. Only this time the breakfast club heartthrob will not be dancing Estevez is the writer director and star of a new film called the public is the story of social activism, and civil disobedience set in Cincinnati. Ohio, centering on an uprising that was staged by the city's homeless inside the public library, and are at least Menendez has been speaking to immediately Estevez about this. So I loved this film, the public and it has a very interesting premise and Arctic cold blows into Cincinnati. The homeless population decides to occupy the public library. And what starts as an act of civil disobedience ends up becoming very tense standoff with the police, I imagine this was not an idea that was easy to sell. No certainly not. This was an idea that actually started a twelve years ago this week is matter of fact, it was April first two thousand seven an article appeared in the Los Angeles Times, it was written by retiring Salt Lake City, library, named chip ward, and the essay was about how libraries had become defacto homeless shelters. And how LeBron's you now, tash tipping first responders and defacto social workers. And so, so it was for me. It was it was it was an eye opening. Piece and I was very moved by it. And so I began to imagine what it would look like if the patrons decided to stage an old fashioned, sixty sit in how law enforcement would react how the media might spin it, and how a local politician in the middle of a campaign cycle could use it for his political game to your point, I would go into offices and say, don't you understand what you see? This is exactly what's happening. And I think people just they didn't see the humor in it. They didn't see the humanity in it. They couldn't imagine a movie taking place in a library breakfast club. Being successful. And so, so for me it was very frustrating. And yet, ultimately, it's isn't it really all about timing. And, and I think the movies way more relevant now than it would have been had, we made it even five years ago. I mean, we just experienced this extraordinary polar vortex just descended on the middle of the country. And we were we were watching people dying in the streets. One of my favorite moments in the film happens. Pretty early on. It's quiet moment. But it won't take a look at it brutal. Next couple of nights for sure. We could all come. Stay Joe place. I would if I could clip, but you don't judgment here, though. Jackson. Use it to get some food, and you room you're going to offer me money, and then tell me what to do with it. No, I was just suggesting a few things that I thought you might need is. You know what I need? Okay. Williams. The best of the best in terms of being able to hold a tense moment. Hit from drama, mommy. He so solid in this film, and the whole cast incredibly house electric in, in this film. But what I love about that exchanges. It illustrates what we get wrong about homelessness. Well, it's, it's conditional giving we see in that in that scene. Really, we need to I think divorces from that outcome because that's really none of our business. We're we give we give freely and we give without condition. And it's really none of our business, where that individual who ask for that money is going to spend when the protagonist of the film is the character place, Stewart, white librarian. How do you avoid the trope of the white savior? Well, and that's a good question. We made sure that, that I'm surrounded by a very diverse cast. It's very inclusive cast, and my character doesn't initiate, my character follows this is an issue. The lockdown is initiated by Michael k Williams, who in turn doesn't want to speak to the, and so he inevitably us Stewart as the mouthpiece for the group but star does not want to be in that position. Why choose this as the project has spent twelve years on this is one of those projects that it was. It's been sort of said that, while this is a labor of love. It was really more labor of purpose. I. Was informed by a great deal by my father's activism. He's been arrested sixty eight times all non violent civil disobedience actions for anti-nuclear movements for homelessness, mental health issues and immigration. And so, so he's been out there protesting in the streets in the movie is, you know, I, I would I would say it's informed by by those all every one of those sixty eight arrests and what I mean by that is, I would watch him get arrested on oftentimes on national television, and, and I would sit and watch him. Get carted off in handcuffs, reciting the Lord's prayer. And he looked like a lunatic, and for me as a man, it was, it was, I understood it fundamentally, but I didn't understand it. Spiritually until I started working on this picture and this film deals, not only with the social activism component of this. But also the politics of this issue. Let's take a look at another clip. Did you lie to make? Burns duty is to protect the privacy of the patriots. Maybe you've heard the Connecticut for yes. I've heard of the Connecticut for I read that appellate case when I went back to graduate school ten years ago. You intellectual. Vanity is. After. These people. You're protecting your patrons. Is it worth it? Is it worth throwing your life away for? Would they do the same for you? Not on your life, bow. I've been working with trunks and addicts and the mentally ill for my entire career all day every day, and then your friends, they don't give to about you. All they care about as their next hit their next bottle, their next meal, and they will beg borrow and steal to get that from you. But you'll really know that don't you? We have not seen that Alec Baldwin while. No, I'm show. Proud of his performance in this film again, he's been known in the last at least last fifteen twenty years as being a comedic actor thirty rock and the SNL sketches it he's been doing. And when he said yes to this. I was thrilled because let's get let's see again in a very dramatic role. Let's remind people that this is how we all grew up watching him. And, and he just sinks his teeth into this, and he doesn't he doesn't external job ends up being a standoff with the police. What do you want viewers to take away about the relationship between the homeless population and the police officers try to keep them safe? Sure that, you know, I think she'd over and over again, the criminals ation of the poor and the marginalized, and it's oftentimes at the hands of, of law enforcement. I think that. My hope the takeaway is audiences begin to park, their bias at the door when they confront or, or encounter, somebody on, on the street an individual experiencing homelessness, who may be suffering from mental illness. We don't know how that person arrived at this unfortunate place in their life. But oftentimes, we assign the story to how they got there and, and oftentimes that story is wrong. I'm sure you've had people to sign a bias or bring their bias in assign a story about how they think you arrived at bliss. That happens to me every day. And so, so let's stop doing that to individuals experiencing homelessness. Let's stop treating it like a, a condition because it's not it's not condition. It's a situation and it's a situation that, that we can, I think Sistan getting of people out of it's not just the relationship between the homeless and the police though. It's also the way that we in the media, sometimes frame these issues. That's right. What did you want to take away, too? Their show. Oftentimes actually, on the daily almost every channel, we see that breaking news so much that we're that we're numb to it. And I think the media oftentimes goes to way if it bleeds it leads, and they lean into the negative. And that's what happens in the case of this particular reporter, Gabrielle union. She's not really interested in the story. And if she were to peel, the layers back, and there's actually a bigger story there, if she were to pay attention to what was really going on inside. And so there there in lies, the confusion and of course insteps, the politician who wants to spin it for his own political gain, because he's in the middle of an election cycle, and you have this, this unholy marriage between politics and the media, which can never exist in real life, of course. But in this film there it is. And and it it exacerbates the situation. You grew up in one of the most influential families in Hollywood. And now you live in Cincinnati which. Would be really easy to read as a rejection of Hollywood. And rejection of the way you were raised. Sure. Well, my mom was born in Cincinnati raised cross the river in Kentucky. My dad was born in Dayton. So they were born forty five minutes apart, essentially, they met here, New York, nineteen sixty and and have been together ever since and what I love about Cincinnati. Is it reminds me of that New York I moved out of New York nineteen sixty nine and it was a city that I never wanted to leave? I loved it here. I couldn't imagine myself living anywhere else when I started going back to Cincinnati by ten years ago, I say, wow. This feels like New York nineteen sixty nine it feels affordable right for starters. And it, it feels it felt very familiar to me, and it's I, I would say that it's not necessarily a rejection of Hollywood. I would say it's just a it's a quality of life issue for me. Also think people are craving stories that don't happen in LA in New York and Chicago. That's right. That's right. And we tend to call them the flyover states. I call him the United States and I drive a lot. I'm a big driver. I mean, you, you drove yourself to one of the film fest. I didn't know it was only four trip, but I've made I've got a twelve year old car, and it has about two hundred eighty thousand miles on it. I've driven probably close to a million and a half miles in the United States alone. Make these long pilgrimages across the midwest and the south and end up in cities, that, that most people have never heard of towns, people have never heard of and, and really dig dig into those and spend time and get to know the people get in Omaha. Nebraska, I love him. They have one of the best farmers markets of, of ever experienced of Lawrence, Kansas, Marfa, Texas, some of these small towns that just have so much going on. And we miss all that, of course, from thirty thousand feet for someone who was not driven by fame. You found a lot of commercial success. Right. The breakfast club almost fire the wet, how have all of these experiences led to where you are today. Everything in your passion forms where you ultimately arrive. I did do a lot of very commercial films. Oftentimes I would do them for the wrong. Reasons talked into doing them about twenty years ago, I made a left turn and I decided to make movies for me rather than for the studios, and that comes with a great cost oftentimes, financial and personal and, but I couldn't I couldn't continue seeing a resume that was not. Refer not reflective of who I who I am. Let's talk about the way film that you worked on with your father, what was that experience, like, well, anytime you, you get to work with, with family. It's sort of double short about to say because, you know how to push their buttons because you helped build the machine. Right. So. To be in Spain where my family came from, especially my father's side from the north of Spain. We are goes from the air Gothia it was, it was a real family affair, too, to make that film. But, but, but perhaps even as equally important is the fact that. The film is inspired tens of thousands of people to get off their couch, and go, walk five hundred miles just for someone who hasn't seen it can just briefly. Tell me what the way is about. Sure the way is, it's a. It's about a father who loses his son, who's been out traveling the world left school and decided, I, I need to see the world, rather than just simply study about it and on the community. Santiago he steps off the path in inclement, weather and dis the, the news travels back to the United States. My father who plays the lead. Character gets news of this goes over to Spain to retrieve the body to bring it home for to the United States for burial. And instead is inspired to do the Camino on behalf of his son, and he goes off with app with no training. No idea what he's doing. And along this journey, he meets three other individuals and, and off to Compostela. They go where pilgrims and believers are told that, that is where the remains of Saint James e possible baron. So. This has been pilgrim's have been making the four thousand years, and so, but no really made a movie about it until we. We went out over and over there in two thousand and nine did this. It's the thirtieth anniversary of the breakfast club. I wanna rule a clip. I bet you've received before, probably not. No. I said, leave her alone. You gonna make me. Yeah. You and how many of your friends just me. You and me to hits the hitting you, you hitting the floor anytime you're ready, pal. Well, he still thought he. No, he did it the floor didn't right? Did you know when you were making this that it was going to be as conic as it was idea when you're young actor you? You're in a position oftentimes where you're begging for work. The day that I dish it for breakfast club. I addition for a commercial, a TV show and probably another couple of homes. So you just never know what film, you're, you're going to that. They're going to say. Yes to when I John use the year before that I had issued for sixteen candles, and I dish in for the Molly ringwald love interest, and I nailed it. And I was like, yeah. And also, I feel Hannah my shoulders, and it's a cashier acne says, yeah, you're not gonna get this. We mean everyone's talking about his. Yes. I haven't he this doesn't make any sense all, you know what? And I, I was furious. And he says, listen, I need you to, to get in your car, you calmed down. I get in your car, and you're gonna drive over to Venice of which is C side area. In California, you're gonna dishing for film. It's, it's an odd film. He says, but that's the one I think you're gonna get and it was reported. And so I brought all of anger, and all of that frustration into the dishes, just like man. All I could think about was why and, and the director of wreath. Laments saw what I did in the room and said, I wanna tap into that anger. And again, you never know repairman is conic for in its own way. Breakfast club has certainly keeps on having this extrordinary of life span. Young people are discovering it for the first time. It's, it's very nostalgic, for people of my age to watch, and remember where they were when they first saw it. You've been telling stories or entire life. You're finally at a point where you get to tell the stories you wanna tell a public is now out in the world x. Right. What's the story when until next? Well, I'm working on a lot of different things. Days. There's I'm talking to a company by doing series based on the public because I think, again, there are thousands of stories to be told in from the perspective of, of desk reference, librarians, I think that there's a lot of potential there and it's a show that you could move from city to city so the first season, we started Cincinnati and then moved the second season could be New York Seattle, Denver. So it's got a lot of potential. So that's one thing that I'm working. I've been writing a script and working on a story about immigration for about fifteen years. And, you know, of course, that's topical right now. So so that's something that, that I may be digging my teeth into as well. Thank you so much. Thank you me. And that is it for a program for now. Remember, you can always listen to podcasts. See us online at I'm on dot com and fun of me on Instagram and Twitter. Thanks for watching and goodbye from Neil. The manhunt for the Golden State killer is over. And there's a suspect in custody how long forcement finally idea him after searching for over forty years, who exactly is the suspect Joseph James the Angelo, how did he fly under the radar for decades? And what are some of the victims and their families saying about the arrest? I'm Biagio Messina, and I'm joke in Stephen, and those are some of the questions, we explore an all new episodes of unmasking killer. Subscribe now at apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Lyndon Johnson New York Robert Moses US Israel Cincinnati reporter America Prime Minister Benjamin Netany director Texas Vietnam managing editor Johnson library Robert Caro Jimmy Butler Federal Aviation agency Emilio Estevez writer
Amanpour: Robert Caro, Ayelet Gundar-Goshen and Emilio Estevez

Amanpour

57:03 min | 2 years ago

Amanpour: Robert Caro, Ayelet Gundar-Goshen and Emilio Estevez

"Everyone. It's poppy Harlow on this week's episode of boss files one on one with Gwyneth Paltrow. But not as when it's a famous actress rather when the CEO she's built goop to a two hundred fifty million dollars business. But you tells me still feels like an impostor sometimes as CEO loss what she's learned from Disney, and why did you reach down to Amazon founder Jeff Bezos. Tired of spending hundreds of dollars for prescription glasses. Xeni offers thousands of affordable. Eyewear styles starting at just six ninety five. No ridiculous markups. No hassles. Just quality affordable. I wear delivered right to you visits. Any today at Xeni dot com slash CNN, high podcast listeners. I'm wrapping up my week in New York with some fascinating conversations. It was great to have Robert Caro with me onset talking about his new book. And why it's such a change from his previous work on Robert Moses, and especially on Lyndon Johnson. Then some really interesting insight into Isreaeli society ahead of the elections there next week with the author and psychologist I yell at to Gauchan breakfast club fans. Stick around Elise. Yes. It's down with Amelia Estevez to talk all about his career and his latest film. Enjoy the show and have a great weekend. Welcome to the program, everyone, I'm Christiane Amanpour in New York. Robert Caro is perhaps America's greatest living biographer his icon. Ick books on the life of president Lyndon Baines Johnson. And Robert Moses the man who built New York in the last century have won every major award while setting a new standard for insightful dynamic nonfiction writing. Now at Eighty-three karaoke gives us a glimpse inside his own prodigious writing process in his new book working he shares his enormous drive to turn every page talk to every witness uncover every fact in pursuit of historical truth, but while working is a valuable look back at Caros life work. It is frankly, not the book his fans were hoping for and that would be the long awaited fifth and final volume of his series. The years of Lyndon Johnson back in twenty twelve Caros last book left us dangling off the. Cliff just as Johnson becomes stuck in the quagmire of the Vietnam war, but book Herro has never rushed to finish a book, and he's certainly not about to start. Now, I've been talking to him here in New York trying to discover his quite unique working life. Robot? Carro welcome back to the program pleasure to be here. It is always good to check in with you. I wanna talk though about your life's work your mission, not necessarily just your incredibly eminent subjects you have quite a snow writing pace. Right. I mean is let's say if you calculated about a book every decade, the writing is face the research takes the time is that what it is. So once you've done all the research you've pretty much like an engine. Well, I write my first drafts in longhand because that's really the slowest way of committing your thoughts to paper. And then I go let's say I do a lot of drafts. But what is it about the research? I mean, clearly as you said, you spend a huge the big proportion of your time on a book on the research. Give me an idea of why it tastes eight ten years to just to do the research. Well. One thing is that there's such a massive papers and the Johnson library. You know, when you go in there, you're faced with four floors of boxes. They have forty thousand boxes of papers. They don't they've never counted the pages. But it's about forty five million pages. Can I stop you right there? You attending me an anecdote, which seamlessly leads me into an element of something. You did for C span many years ago talking about this part of your research. There's just take a listen. You looking at four floors. I don't know how many feet these boxes go back. But it's a lot each of those boxes kinda hold a lot on. Fortunately, do eight hundred pages. So. The Johnson library today says they have forty four million documents if you'd be forty four million pieces of paper what we're really living here. Thanks to. You is the first moment, I su-. In my heart. Really sunk at what was a head of your heart sunk, what was the head of you talk about Johnson the man in a moment. But again on the process of of your work you faced with all of that. And you seem to act on a piece of advice that an editor gave you a long time ago. Turn every page is my first piece of advice. I had never done investigative work before. And by accident. I was thrown into something and faced with a whole room full of files from the Federal Aviation agency. And I fell in love that night. I really love doing the for us. I wrote this memo I left it for the real reporters. And then the next Monday, the managing editor who's a tough old guy out of the twenties. Call his secretary called said Alan wants to see you right away. I said the I know thank God, we didn't move. I'm going to be fired. NATO wife. I know my wife's those also your collaborator, my Martha soul. She's the whole team. She's the only person besides myself that I've ever trusted to do research. See you both do research together. Yes. Which is pretty amazing. But again, turn every page. I mean, that's literally when I watched that clip. And I'm a pretty thorough journalist. I haven't written boost pretty thorough journalists the idea of going through that amount of information is truly daunting. But you foreign, you know, if you turn if you follow his advice, and you try to turn every page not at all those boxes put in this the subject that you're talking about you can find stuff like the secret of how Lyndon Johnson he comes to Washington when he's twenty nine and he has he's a junior congressman has no power. All of a sudden, something changes, you see this as you're going through the letters in the beginning of the first three years. He's writing to committee chairman, please. Give me five minutes of your time after October nineteen forty they're writing him, please. So I said to Tommy Corcoran who is this old Washington fixer said what happened in October nineteen forty. He said money kid money. But he said you're never gonna be able to write about the kid. I said wore ninety because Lyndon Johnson never put anything in writing. So I'm remembering this advice. I got. And I said well in those boxes that cover this period. I'm going to turn every pet says worn innocuous letter unit you sit there you're saying I'm just wasting another three weeks of my life. And then all of a sudden he did put something in writing. It's really interesting because just the way you recount this, and the forensic where you get to that I going through these enormous boxes just to find this one thing. I mean, that's a lot of dedication. I mean, obviously, that's what separates you from the boys. And what's made you the go-to biographer set neon on your two major major subjects. I guess for you. There was no other way to do it. Because you've said that you don't believe in truth necessarily exists. But what do you believe I believe there are a lot of facts, and the more facts, you get the closer you come to whatever truth there is. And that's the only way to do it. Well, for whatever reason, that's the way, I something in me. That's the only way I can do when I was a reporter. I couldn't stand to write a story when I still had a question, and I I read in terms of questions. You'll sort of your questioning you've taken a few tricks from some literary sort of heroes and characters right from George smiley, Sean the carry crude from Simmons Magrey, what is it that you took from those veterinary figures. Well, I took from them that when they want somebody talk they they should up. So if you looked in my notebooks, you'd see a lot of I write s you that means shut up that means if you don't say anything, maybe the score you're interviewing will feel the need to fill the silence and tell you something he didn't really want to tell you so use heading SU to yourself that was your memo to self all the time. Yes. See that's pretty extraordinary because I'm sure I'm guilty, and many many certainly TV interview as a guilty of talking too much. Well, I. Not you. He says ugly difficult to s you. I mean, do you have to control yourself? That's why I write it down because I have the urge to talk US goo question. Maybe it's a tough question. The guy's not doesn't want to answer. It. There's a silence you wanna break it because you you union. I write instead of breaking it. I write s Hugh that be Roy's me to shut up and you'd be amazed. I mean, you're a great interviewer. You'd be amazed at how many times after a while. He tells you what you want to know you took on Robert Moses. He was your first big character. Yes. And he of causes the master builder of New York he created Neo 'cause we know it is starting in the middle of the twentieth century. What was it about him and about delving into him? I mean, it's kind of a dry topic. Here was a guy who was we live in a democracy. So supposedly power comes from the ballot box from the votes. We here's guy who was never elected to anything in his life. He had more power than any mayor more power than any governor more power than the mayor and governor combined and he held his power for forty four years half a century. You know, if you drive on a highway in and around New York, they're all built by the same, man. And it suddenly occurred to me I don't understand where he got this power and neither does anybody else. And that's why I set out to write a book, I didn't set out to write just a biography of Robert Moses, I wanted to know what was the form of power. That he created. But how did he do it? I mean, they were obviously like in any development that we see even today. You know, there's some neighborhoods that have to be raised to the ground. Some you know, real people's everyday lives are disrupted in the name of progress in the name of development. He built six hundred twenty seven miles of road. I decided to take one mile that he ran through a neighborhood in the Bronx called these three months and see what the Uman cost of that was it was so sad because it was a to me because it was a neighborhood people had they would not well off they were mostly Jewish, but some Irish some German. Is long as they have their community. They had a nice life. I would go to interview them where he had thrown them out to fifteen thousand people coop city little little apartments living with their kids. You're talking about areas of the city here. And you know in my notebooks. The word that's written. Because they said it to me I heard it over and over is lonely. You know, and I feel no one ever laws about that word, if you say lonely, you're lonely, and it's a very very big issue today and some of these developments are not helping in the loneliness epidemic because community now we know is vital and to break up communities is very very difficult. I wonder. Did you find personal financial pressure in taking this long? Right. A book. I mean, how much did an advanced cover. I used to kid around that. I know that I I had the smallest the world's smallest advance who was five thousand dollars of which they gave me twenty five hundred after about four. We will. You know, we've saw. So I got a grant dot com us through one year, then we had no money. So we sold our house on Long Island that that was before the real estate, boom. So we cleared twenty four thousand dollars that got us through a second year. And then they were just several years of weary members just being broke. And after about five years, I asked my editor, you know, I had given them half the manuscript half. A million words I said, can I the other twenty five hundred dollars? He said Ohno, Bob. I never forget these words, I guess she didn't understand me. We all like the book we want you to keep going. But nobody's going to read a book on Robert Moses. So you'll have to be prepared for very small print. And that was the worst night. Then it was beyond your wildest dreams the printing. Right. Well, it's it's it wasn't an immediate bestseller. But it's now I think they just told me in its fifty fifth printing. Yeah. Well, look your best best. Best sellers have been you'll volumes on Lyndon Johnson. Those are being you know, that that is the gold standard on Lyndon Johnson. So as you can imagine your legions of fans had hoped that your next book that we would be sitting here. Talking about volume five, you'll final volume on Lyndon Johnson and the Vietnam war, but it isn't. No, you didn't do that. A lot of upset people. Why not they want that book? Well, I didn't take all that long of Chris what happened was I'm right? You know, I say I get asked about when am I going to put I also get asked. If you followed me around a lot of times, I get here's what should light to do research. What's it like to interview? What can you find out from interviews? What do you? What's it like to do go through all these papers? And I said, well, you know, I'm gonna just in case I'm going to put some thoughts about that. That's why this is sort of a stopgap measure will it's it's in in its own way. It's it's about me. You know, it's it's it's not about him. It's about me. But it's not a stock. I think if people want to get a glimpse into how I work. I would I try to do is give them enough of glimpse. So they can tell how old are you? Now, eighty three and you still going strong, you still pounding out the woods you've done this one. Are you gonna get to finish the fifth volume? Well, let me say I don't focus on not being able to finish. But I'm working on it it it's well on the way and. Let's say we're going to finish. So to that end you at one point moved the family to Texas is that right? I never annoy moved to Texas. Yeah. Son. Chase was aware of college. By that, you moved your wife and yourself to Texas just to write about Lyndon Johnson. Well, we I was starting to I thought that I knew about Johnson's youth because at the time I started these books there were already seven by biographies of Johnson. But when I started to interview these people in the hill country, it's so lonely and isolated. I mean, you might get the direction to interview somebody they'd say, well, you go forty seven miles west of Austin look for the category turn left, and then you go like thirty miles say on an unpaved road. And you suddenly realize I haven't passed the house and thirty miles. These people were so lonely. They were so unused to talking to strangers. And also, I wasn't understanding them. And I said to iron a, you know, we're going to have to move here for until I learned this area moved to the hill country. I said 'cause she writes books on France, which we love power. She said why can't you write a biography of Napoleon? I love that. She has a good sense of humor knows you. Well, what did you learn from them the people who you hadn't understood the people who are vital to interview to know about your subject Lyndon Johnson where you learn to things really are you learn on the one hand how ruthless? He was even as a young man in college blackmailing, a young woman who is running for the student council to get her out of the race. Because of some indiscreet remarks that that she made, you know, on the other hand, you learn about his incredible capacity. You know, a lot of people talk about compassion Lyndon Johnson had true compassion, but he had something that's even rare. He had the ability to turn compassion into governmental laws that help people. So this was an area without electricity. When we were still talking to the to the women who had to live their laws without electricity. He gets he runs for congress. He he's the women were all bent and stoop. You know, what his loin was when he ran for congress. He said if you vote for me, you won't look like your mother looks I and it worked and he brought them electric. And you really said if you're you know, you when he said this is impossible. You know, there's not a dam built to bring electric he's got to get the damn build. He's got the rural electrification administration to lay thousands of thousands of lines to these lonely, and he did an amazing thing. Have you ever seen the likes of that kind of governmental genius since since? No. I mean, I know you don't like to talk about politics. But I wonder if you have like one sentence about why the system seems to be broken today. We always hear various presidents want to talk about infrastructure. I wanna do the right thing. And yes, it's yet. It's very difficult. If not impossible to do. Well, when you look at it is, you know, the Senate is a whole wrote a whole book on how the Senate works because it's a whole different world. And Lyndon Johnson found ways, you know, the leader before Johnson dissenter hadn't work since the days of Webster clay in cal-. That's the eighteen fifties. The Senate hadn't worked same dysfunctional mess. It is today until he becomes majority leader in nineteen fifty four immediately. He becomes immaturity. The Senate becomes the center of governmental creativity, and ingenuity energy. It's not Eisenhower civil rights Bill. It's Lyndon Johnson. Civil rights Bill. He leaves to become vice president after six years for six years, the Senate work immediately. The Senate is the same dysfunctional mess as it is. I today, and it stayed that work. Can I ask you about interviewing his brother and getting to the heart of the family stories through Sam Houston Johnson? I believe you. And at one point you take him to I think the family house, and you sit him around the family table. In his childhood position by his own next whose father because by that time, I knew that whatever may Lyndon Johnson. This incredible human being a lot of it had to do with his relationship with his father who is a very respected legislator and then failed. And they lost. The Johnson ranch and Johnson grew up the rest of his boyhood in real poverty, where where they were worried every month at the Bank was going to take their their house away. So Sam Houston was hard to get to talk. So I persuaded the National Park Service to let us go into the Johnson family boyhood home, which was recreated just as it was when they were when they were kids after the tourists were going, and I took him in around dinner torn because I knew it was at dinner time that the father in Linden would have these horrible arguments, and I sat behind them because I didn't want him to see I wanted to feel. Like he was a kid again. And then I asked him tell me what it was like at dinner and the things that poured. And then at the end of my end, the this. I said so now because he recreated an argument between his father, and Linda at the end the rest are now Sam Houston, tell me all those wonderful stories that you told me, and it will his friends told me just give me a few more details. There's this long. Silence. And then Sam Houston says I can't. And I said why not and he says because they never happen. That's that's that is an amazing story. So we've talked a lot about Lyndon Johnson successes. I guess the big failure was Vietnam. And this is the book that you yet to complete. Yes. What are we going to? None about that that we don't know their your great questions. What I hope people will learn what I'm trying to show is how does a great nation get into a mess like this. You say he sent almost six hundred thousand six think of six hundred thousand men to fight in a jungle war in Asia half the world away. It goes on for years. We he dropped more bombs on Viet nam than we dropped on Germany, and this is a, you know, rural country. I hope I'm trying. I don't say I'm going to succeed. I'm trying to show how we went down this terrible path. What would you say? Remembering the cub reporter Robert CARA that you were in the fifties. That person any of us about what you've learned about power political power and how it's wielded in the people who wield it. Well, I don't know. I tell you something I rather approach Issing. What do I learned about writing about power? I learned if not enough to write about the powerful men who wielded you have to write also about the power less. What's the effect on the people without power who are -ffected by government either? Their lives are changed for the better or for the worst, either Robert Moses or Lyndon Johnson brought them something or if they stood in their way room and. I feel that you have to show as I said, not just the powerful, but the powerless otherwise books about power or somewhat incomplete. That's marvelous. That's really really really important lesson. Robert kerr. Thank you very much Jesus. Always a pleasure. Very much. Thank you. Tired of spending hundreds of dollars for prescription glasses. Our friends at Xeni optical offer, a huge variety of high quality stylish frames and state of the art optics starting at just six ninety five. You can get multiple frames with this great pricing for less than one pair. Elsewhere start building your eyewear wardrobe from the comfort of your own home at Zanny dot com. With the latest trends in eyewear available and hundreds of frame styles and materials there isn't a better way to change it up for every season. Plus is any offers prescription sunglasses at incredible prices. Visit Xeni today at Xeni dot com slash CNN. That's Z E N N. I dot com slash CNN. Remember to create an ad like this one visit pure winning dot com slash CNN. I'm Biagio Messina joke. We're the producers behind HSEN television documentary series unmasking killer. Join us as we explore the identification capture and arrest of Joseph James, Dan. Gelo, the alleged Golden State killer in a special ten part podcast series unmasking killer, all new episodes premiering Tuesday. February twelfth subscribed today at apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. Now on any list of Mazda full political power players. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu ranks right up then the top and now as the clock ticks closer to these radio election. The betting is that Israel is will reelect Netanyahu for a fourth consecutive term. That's despite in facing indictment for multiple counts of bribery and fraud. The polls show a tight race soon as dive into the psyche of these Rayleigh people right now with my next guest. I yell at gonna go Shim is a prominent Isreaeli, author and psychologist whose work explores the many currents and fault lines in Israel society from ten Aviv. She tells me why she thinks Netanyahu is integrated his own political narrative into Israel story. So successfully I n at gun to go Shen. Welcome to the program. Hello good to be here. I'm really fascinated by your specific take on your own society because you're an author. And a psychologist, and you write very deeply about the society you without being overly political. I just wanna start by putting you'll country Israel in the psychologist Chet. It's the patient. What is your professional diagnosis? Well, I think if I had to see Israel as a patient, then I would say this patient suffers from severe post traumatic stress disorder mean you have a nation that suffered a severe trauma. Not just talking about the trauma of the holocaust. I'm talking about the very complex term of two thousand years of exile. And then even though the situation changed and the trauma is no longer present. At the moment, we still feel that the trauma is here right now. So it is if the past is occurring again, and again, even though the real situation is very much different than what it used to be. We're no longer in existence threat as we were. In second world world that we still feel that we suffer from this threat, and this shape and the whole way we act so let's ask you to tell us. Why this is the case if we are no longer as you say in that particular kind of existential threat, then why do Israelis fear so much? And why do they believe that they're under existential threat? So you've said, and it's true Israel has one of the greatest stories ever told from exodus to today, and you've told Hotoke, for instance, other interviews and objective fact can be turned into a myth, and then later into a story not told by professional storytellers, but by politicians in order to keep reality as it is right now explain what you are trying to say. Well, I think if you look at today's greatest Isreaeli storyteller toward be authors. Like almost author David Grossman. It would be our prime minister. It would be minutes. Now, he's the best storyteller over time. And he's telling the Israeli public this very compelling narrative. And I think it's compelling because it's it's a very simple narrative. You know, it's like the kids stories that I read to my little kids. You have to automate good being these rallies. You have the ultimate bad being the Palestinians, this story views the Palestinians is sort of reincarnation of previous traumas so that we had kinks Farrow, and then we had Hitler. And now we have them. And it's a very compelling story. But this is not this is not reality reality is much more complex than that. And in reality is really people. I mean, we're still victims right now, but we're victims of our own executives and over own fear. I think we're now. The victims of the fact that we don't try to to initiate a peace process that even the word peace is today considered as as an eight word. We don't even say the word anymore. We say an agreement. So I think Netanyahu did a very good job in de legitimizing, the is rarely left and the idea that you could actually try to negotiate and to solve this conflict rather than to relive it again. And again, and again, you also said a new liken your writing almost attending a friend that they have food stuck in their teeth. In other words, that you're trying to tell a story not to attack you nation and your state, but actually to be a good friend. And yet you called a traitor by those who don't believe what you're pointing out is is reasonable that. What you're doing is simply attacking the state of Israel. What is the you've said Israel is in a state of severe PTSD? But. Do you feel you a writing narrative that does not comport to the way the majority of his Railly's feel and believe today and think we're trying to tell a story, which is far more complicated than the one of Netanyahu. But also than the one portrayed by. We usually people go for stories, which are really like the Disney film villains. You know, you have to admit good and ultimate evil and Netanyahu would say the good is us and the evil is them. And then some parts in the Bedia to talk about, you know, the termination of the entire Israeli states. The hall Isreaeli state, not just the acute patients is the ultimate colonializing evil. And and I'm sorry. I know it goes very well in cinema. But I think we life is more complicated than that. And we're trying to to suggest a much more complicated narrative. But right now, we're we're failing to to make people take this leap of faith and comeback into into negotiating. And I think perhaps one of the reason is that people in the left are viewed today by many other people in these really society because of Netanyahu, we're viewed as as traitors as self hating Jews, and I don't think of myself as a traitor on the. Contrary. I think that we are the biggest patriots of this country thinks you need to really love someone in order to to come and tell him that he has food in teeth, or I always think that I can go until my mother that I think she did something wrong because she's my mother, and I love her you wouldn't try to argue or fight with someone that you don't deeply care about in a way feel it's like if your friend was driving a car while his drunk, then you do whatever you can to make him. Stop driving the car over a cliff and right now, the entire state is being driving over to cliff by people who drank too much of propaganda. You know, fanatic propaganda. You know, I just wanna bring up this, quote almost all said, the core of the Israeli Palestinian conflict is a clash between right and right and often it's a clash between wrong and wrong. And you you've explained in your own metaphorical way. What that means? But it's so interesting what you say. Say because it leads to the topic, for instance of your latest book, the lion in which you talk about a rape. And you you that is the the central part of the beginning of your book, and it's a false accusation. Tell me why you wrote that why that was the the nugget of your book, particularly in this era. Liar is based on a real story that I heard of an retrain migrant was accused by an Israeli girl of sexually assaulting her. And I she was halved by everyone because she was considered, you know, this this hero. And then when she eventually confess that didn't really happen. She was denounced by everyone who I hugged her. And when I heard the story, I thought this is too easy to give the collective hug to the Victor. And then to call this lady monster a moment after we learn the truth because maybe she's not a monster. Maybe she's just a person who got confused. I mean, maybe people lie not necessarily because they're bad. But because they can't handle the truth and being an author. You know, always try not to judge my characters, but you really try to understand them. So when I wrote liar. I ask myself why is it that people make up? Such life. Not just this real case of the go who made up the story about a sexual assault. But also, I mean all people lie lying is such a terrible social crime. If you call somebody Aligarh, it's a huge insult. But then again, we all lie on daily basis and very interested in this ambiguously, how can something be so bad. But at the same time be so present in our everyday life, while it is extraordinaire because you did ask a lot of people if they remember their first lies and do you? Remember, what was your first lie? Well, my first one, I'm not sure I remember my first one I think there were so many after that I forgot my first one. But one of the biggest lies. I think I told as a child was. I grew up in a in a neighborhood until Aviv where you had a whole lot of holocaust survivors. And most of the kids had a grandparent or grandmother who who was a holocaust survivor, and they came to school, and they told us the stories of how they survived the camps, and you know, being very uncharted. And not really understanding. Why was that? I heard I actually remember myself feeling jealous had the best friend who had her grandmother surviving Auschwitz, and my grandparents didn't I mean, we had family members in the holocaust. But nobody from the first circle. And I ended up learning out that I do have a grandmother who fought the Nazis, and I took it a little bit too far. She didn't just escape Auschwitz in my story show. So kill the few German soldiers. I think it was one of the biggest lies I ever told as a child it's really revealing. But what happened? What did you grandmother say? I mean you. Have been found out. Yes. I was I was caught and very briefly afterwards. Because the story was so good that they asked me to bring her to class to share the story to to give a testimony in front of everyone to tell them this. So I had to tell her what happened, and she was obviously furious because she knew this was not just stories. This was the real life experience of so many people and used it as a story. But I think she also really had a lot of compassion. She also understood you know, how jealous or how lonely child can get to make up such a lie. And that was when she gave me my first notebook. She gave him a notebook. And she said if you wanna tell stories, you can write you can write you, you don't say to people you declare them stories. It's so interesting to hear you talk about all of this. I want to bring it full circle. Now again in terms of the lies in terms of the storytelling. You know, you will have an election result in a week in a week's time. And I wonder if you can just sort of riff on what Gabriel Garcia Marquez wrote about truth and lies allies more comfortable than doubt, more useful than love more lasting than truth. Do you agree, and you see that as a political narrative? Yes, I think you know, nations are built on stories stories are the glue that keeps millions of people together. You can call this stories narratives or myth. You can call these stories lies, and you know, sometimes this common stories that we share the glue together to to wonderful causes like like the miracle of the foundation of Israel. I do think it's a miracle. But then again, sometimes story can be very very dangerous sometime the story that glues people together is continue once again to victim. But you know, now, you're the victim of your own story. Fascinating. It's been so interesting to talk to you yell yellow Kanda Gauchan. Thank you so much. Indeed for joining me. Thank you for having me. Her latest book, the liar will be released in the United States this September, and it's already available in the United Kingdom. And here's some good news for fans of America. In pop culture immediate estimates is back in the library. Only this time the breakfast club. Heartthrob will not be dancing Estevez is the writer director and star of a new film called the public is the story of social activism and civil disobedience set in Cincinnati, Ohio centering on an uprising that was staged by the city's homeless inside the public library. And our Menendez has been speaking to a media Estevez about this. So I loved this film, the public, and it has a very interesting premise and Arctic cold blows into Cincinnati the homeless population decides to occupy the public library, and what starts as an act of civil disobedience ends up becoming in very tense standoff with the police, I am Agean. This was not an idea that was easy to sell. No, certainly not. This was an idea that actually started a twelve years ago. This week is a matter of fact, it was April first two thousand seven an article appeared in the Los Angeles Times it was written by retiring Salt Lake City library named chip ward. And the essay was about how libraries have become defacto homeless shelters and how LeBron's you now. Tash tipping first responders and facto social workers. And so so. So it was for me. It was it was it was an eye opening piece, and I was very moved by it. And so I began to imagine what it would look like if the patrons decided to stage, an old fashioned sixty sit in how law enforcement would react, how the media might spin it, and how local politician in the middle of campaign cycle could use it for his political game to your point. I would go into offices and say don't you understand? Don't you see this is exactly what's happening? And I think people just they didn't see the humor in it. They didn't see the humanity in it. They couldn't imagine a movie taking place at a library record club. Being being successful. And so so for me, it was very frustrating. And yet, ultimately, it's isn't it really all about timing. And and I think the movie is way more relevant now than it would have been had it we made it even five years ago. I mean, we just experienced this extraordinary polar vortex just ascended on the middle of the country. And we were we were watching people dying in the streets, one of my favorite moments in the film happens pretty early on. It's quiet moment. But it won't take a look at it. Brutal next couple of nights for sure. We could all come stay Joe place. What if I could clip, but you don't jasmine here though? Jackson. Use it to get some food, and you were going to offer me money, then tell me what to do with it. No, I was just suggesting a few things that I thought you might need. How do you know what I need? Mike. Okay. Williams. The best of the best in terms of day to hold a tense moment. Hit from drama to he's social it in this film, and the whole cast in incredible electric in in this film. But what I love about that exchanges. It illiterates. What we get wrong about homelessness. Well, it's it's conditional giving we see in that in that scene. Really, we need to I think divorce ourselves from that outcome because that's really none of our business. We're we give we give freely and we give without condition, and it's really none of our business where that individual who's ask for that money is going to spend it when the protagonist of the film is the character place Stewart in white librarian. How do you avoid the trope of the white savior? Well, and that's a good question. I we made sure that. That I'm surrounded by a very diverse cast. It's a very inclusive cast, and my character doesn't initiate my. Character follows this is initiated the lockdown is initiated by Michael k Williams who in turn doesn't want to speak to the floor. And so he inevitably uses Stuart as the mouthpiece for the group. But star it does not want to be in that position. Why choose this as the project has spent twelve years on this is one of those projects that it was. It's been sort of said that while this is a labor of love it. It was really more labor of purpose. I was informed by a great deal by my father's activism, like he's been arrested sixty eight times all non violent civil disobedience actions for anti-nuclear movements for homelessness, mental health, issues and immigration. And so so he's been out there protesting in the streets in the movie is I I would I would say it's informed by a by those all every one of those sixty eight arrests. And what I mean by that is I would watch him get arrested on oftentimes on national television. And and I would sit and watch him get carted off in handcuffs reciting the Lord's prayer. And he looked like a lunatic. And for me as young man, it was it was I understood it fundamentally, but I didn't understand it spiritually until I started working on. On this picture, and this film deals, not only with the social activism component of this. But also the politics of this issue. It's take a look at another clip. Why did you lie to make burns duty is to protect the privacy of the patriots? Maybe you've heard the Connecticut for yes. I've heard of the Connecticut four I read that appellate case when I went back to graduate school ten years ago. Intellectual. Vanity is. Thank you. These people that you're protecting your patrons as it worth. It is it worth throwing your life away for. Would they do the same for you not on your life? Bow I've been working with trunks and Haddock's and the mentally ill for my entire career all day every day, and then your friends, they don't give about you. All they care about the next hit their next bottle their next meal, and they will beg borrow and steal to get that from you. But you already know that don't you? We have not seen that Alec Baldwin while. No, I'm sure proud of his performance in this film. Again, he's been known last at least the last fifteen twenty years as being a comedic actor thirty rock and the SNL sketches it he's been doing and. I when he said yes to this. I was thrilled. Because I thought let's get let's see alad again in a very dramatic role. Let's remind people that this is how we all grew up watching him, and and he just sinks his teeth into this. And he does he doesn't extrordinary job ends up being a standoff with the police, what do you want viewers to take away about the relationship between the homeless population and the police officers try to keep them safe? Sure that you know, I think we see over and over again, the criminals Asian of the poor and the marginalized and oftentimes at the hands of of law enforcement. I think that my hope the takeaway is audiences begin to park their bias at the door when they confront or or encounter somebody on on the street, an individual experiencing homelessness who may be suffering from mental illness. We don't know how that person arrived. At this unfortunate place in their life. But oftentimes we assigned the story to how they got there. And and oftentimes that story is wrong. I'm sure you've had people to sign a bias or bring their bias in China story about how they think you arrived at a place that happens to me every day. And so so let's stop doing that to individuals experiencing homelessness. Let's stop treating it like a a condition because it's not it's not condition. It's a situation. And it's a situation that that we can I think Sistan getting people out of it's not just the relationship between the homeless and the police though, it's also the way that we in the media sometimes frame these issues. That's right. What did you want to take away to their show? Oftentimes, you know. Actually on the daily almost every channel we see that breaking news so much that we're that. We're numb to it. And I think the media oftentimes goes to way if it if it bleeds it leads and they lean into the negative. And that's what happens in the case of this particular reporter Gabrielle union, she's not really interested in the story. And if she were to peel the layers back, and there's actually a bigger story there if she were to pay attention to what was really going on inside. And so there there in lies the confusion. And of course, insteps the politician who wants to spin it for his own political gain because he's in the middle of an election cycle. And you have this this unholy marriage between politics and the media, which can never exist in real life, of course. But in this film, there it is. And and it it exacerbates the situation you grew up in one of the most influential. Families in Hollywood. And now you live in Cincinnati which. Would be really easy to read as a rejection of Hollywood and rejection of the way you were raised. Sure. Well, my mom was born in Cincinnati raised cross the river in Kentucky. My dad was born in Dayton. So they were born Forty-five minutes apart, essentially, they met here in New York in nineteen sixty and and have been together ever since. And what I love about Cincinnati is. It reminds me of that New York, I moved out of New York in nineteen sixty nine and it was the city that I never wanted to leave. I loved it here. I couldn't imagine myself living anywhere else. When I started going back to Cincinnati about ten years ago. I said, wow. This feels like New York nineteen sixty nine it feels affordable right for starters. And it it feels it felt very familiar to me. And it's I I would say that it's not necessarily a rejection of Hollywood, I would say it's just a it's a quality of life issue for me. People are craving stories that don't happen in LA and New York and Chicago. That's right. That's right. And we tend to call them the fly over states. I call him the United States, and I drive a lot. I'm a big driver. I mean, you drove yourself to one of the film fest. I did enjoy it was only a four hour trip. But I've made I've got a twelve year old car, and it has about two hundred eighty thousand miles on it. I've driven probably close to a million and a half miles in the United States alone. Make these long pilgrimages across the midwest. And and the south and end up in cities that that most people have never heard of towns people who've never heard of and and really dig into those and spend time and get to know the people get into Omaha Nebraska. I love Mahad. They have one of the best farmers markets. I've I've ever experienced in my life of Lawrence, Kansas Marfa, Texas. Some of these small towns that just have so much going on. And we miss all that, of course, from thirty thousand feet for someone who is not driven by fame. You found a lot of commercial success. Right. The breakfast club and fire the wet. How have all of these experiences led to where you are today? Everything in your passion forms where you ultimately arrive. I did do a lot of very commercial films. Oftentimes, I would do them for the wrong reasons talked into doing them about twenty years ago. I made a left turn and I decided to make movies for me rather than for the studios, and that comes with a great cost oftentimes, financial and personal. And but I couldn't I couldn't continue seeing a resume that was not. Not reflective of who. I who. I am. Let's talk about the way film that you worked on with your father. What was that experience? Like, we'll anytime you you get to work with with family. It's sort of a double edged short about just because you know, how to push their buttons because you helped build the machine, right? So. To be in Spain where my family a came from especially my father's side from the north of Spain. We are guy goes from the air Gothia. It was a it was a real family affair too to make that film. But, but but perhaps even as equally important is the fact that. The film is inspired. Tens of thousands of people to get off their couch and go walk five hundred miles just for someone who hasn't seen. It can just briefly tell me what the way is about. Sure the way is it's. It's about a father who loses his son who's been out traveling the world left school and decided I I need to see the world rather than just simply study about it and on the community this TI go he steps off the path in inclement weather dis. The the news travels back to the United States. My father who plays the lead. Character gets news of this goes over to Spain to retrieve the body to bring it home for to the United States for burial. And instead is inspired to do the Camino on behalf of his son. And he goes off with app with no training. No idea what he's doing. And along this journey. He meets three other individuals, and and off Santiago Compostela, they go where pilgrims and believers are told that that is where the remains of Saint James. Our baron. So this has been pilgrim's have been making over years. And so, but no really made a movie about it until we. We went out over and over there in two thousand and nine and did this. It's the thirtieth anniversary of the breakfast club. I wanna roll a clip. I bet you've never seen before probably not no. I said leave her alone. You gonna make me? Yeah. You and how many of your friends? Just me. If you and me to hit the hitting you you hitting the floor anytime, you're ready pal. Well, he still thought he. He did it the floor didn't eat. Right. Didn't you know when you were making this that it was going to be as conic as it was no idea when you're young actor you. You're in a position oftentimes where you're begging for work the day that I dish in for breakfast club. I addition for a commercial a TV show and probably another couple of Elms. So you just never know. What film? You're you're going to that. They're going to say yes to when I John used the year before that I had in for sixteen candles, and I dish in for the Molly ringwald love interest. And I nailed it. And I was like, yeah. And also, I feel Hannah my shoulders, and it's a cashier. Acne says, yeah, you're not gonna get this way. Mean everyone's talking about. He this doesn't make any sense at all. You know what? And I I was curious and he says, listen, I need you to to get in your car. You calm down. I getting your car, and you're gonna drive over to Venice of which is C side. Seaside area in California for a film. It's a it's an odd film. He says, but that's the one I think you're gonna get and it was reported. And so I brought all of anger and all of that frustration into the dishes. I was just like man all I could think about was why. And and the director of every film saw what I did in the room and said, I wanna tap into that anger. And again, you never know repairman is conic for in its own way. Breakfast club has certainly keeps on having this extrordinary of life span. Young people are discovering it for the first time. It's it's very nostalgic for people of my age to watch. And remember where they were when they first sought you've been telling stories or entire life. You're finally at a point where you get to tell the stories that you wanna tell public is now out in the world. What's the story? Wanna till next. Well, I'm working on a lot of different things days. There's a I'm talking to a company about doing a series based on the public because I think again, there are thousands of stories to be told in from the perspective of desk reference, librarians. I think that there's a lot of potential there. And it's a show that you could move from city to city. So the first season we started Cincinnati. And then moved the second season could be a New Yorker Seattle Denver. So it's got a lot of potential. So that's one thing that that I'm working I've been writing a script and working on a story about immigration for about fifteen years. And of course, that's topical right now. So so that's something that that I may be digging. My my my tease into as well. Thank you so much. Thank you have. And that is it for a program for now. Remember, you can always listen to podcasts. See us online at I'm on dot com. And fun of me on Instagram and Twitter. Thanks for watching. And goodbye from Neil.

Lyndon Baines Johnson Robert Moses US New York Israel Cincinnati Texas reporter Prime Minister Benjamin Netany managing editor Disney Robert Caro Johnson library Xeni dot Isreaeli Senate Amelia Estevez Spain CNN Christiane Amanpour
Episdio 16 - Chadwick para sempre

Ouve Isso

23:35 min | 8 months ago

Episdio 16 - Chadwick para sempre

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Ep. 110 The Running Man, Chapters 100-71

Two Guys to the Dark Tower Came: A Podcast about Stephen King and His Books

32:31 min | 2 weeks ago

Ep. 110 The Running Man, Chapters 100-71

"In a welcome everyone to two guys to the dark tower came a podcast where we discussed the characters connections and deeper meanings of stephen king's magnum opus. The dark tower. I'm jay rousseau and i'm shawn digger you can email us at two guys dark tower at g. dot com to support the show visit us at patriotair dot com slash. Two guys dark tower in this episode. We'll cover the bachmann book. The running man chapters one hundred to seventy one. Let's start the show in the year. Twenty five ben. Richards is unemployed. His wife turning tricks to earn money and his young daughter is ill desperate to care for his family. Richards heads to the network with the hope of being selected for one of the many game shows broadcast on the free after going through rigorous physical and mental testing. Richard is selected by producer. Dan killian to appear on the flagship. Show the running man where hill earn one hundred dollars for every hour. He stays alive while being tracked by hunters were authorized to kill him if he survives. Thirty days ho- get one billion dollars. Richard travels to new york city and then boston without much problem but starts to notice some strange men outside the ymca where he is hiding out. Thrilling stuff j. Yeah this book is so much fun. It is a lot of fun isn't it. yeah. I haven't read it for years and years and years and years. I've seen the movie multiple times in the intervening time but the book itself. I don't think i've read since the late eighties probably. Yeah i'd say. I'd probably read this and only read it that one time back in the early to mid nineties and that was after i'd seen the movie at least once you have to say at least once we all know that multiple viewings of the running manner needed. Yeah to get all the subtleties. It's like inception it rewards additional views. Absolutely so this is one of the last bachman books. It was written according to stephen king in about three weeks in one thousand nine hundred one. This is one of his Ones that he'd just busted through. I think it usually writes two thousand words of day and that gets them on like four to six months time to turn around and book in this when he threw weeks done it was published in nineteen eighty two as a paperback original and then in the bachman books in one thousand nine hundred five. It's unusual because this is a step outside of king's usual writing style and genre. This is a horror novel at all. You and i have talked about how king doesn't see himself as a genre novelist e has been sort of pigeonholed by everybody else. He just writes what he feels. Like writing intel's tells the stories he wants to tell and that's why so. Many of his stories are blends of genres. But this one is definitely outside of the space where he tends to play and it is also singularly like one john rao. This doesn't kind of meld things together. The way the gunslinger does know or most of the dark tower books. It's still a nonstop throw ride. It's it has like this forward momentum that's like an engine that just keeps going scrape. It helps a lot with the fact that the chapters are short and propulsive. So you're never more than three or four pages it seems from the next chapter and that the chapters countdown so you even feel that more so you know one hundred ninety nine ninety eight. It's all there to keep you reading. Yeah and initially. I kind of categorize this as science fiction. And i've read other people have categorized that way but i think it's more accurate to say. This is speculative fiction in my mind. Science fiction has to start with false science thing and then the rest of the story is the ripple effect out from there right like in the expanse somebody invented this super fast drive to travel through space at near the speed of light or something like that changes all of uman society and how far they can explore space around them from there all of the rest of the story is just ripple effect so here we don't really have that it's just a speculation on what society side he could be like if it just continues on the current trend. That king was observing when he wrote this book. What is what's life going to be like in thirty years forty years fifty years it's going to suck in. Let's explore that and have some fun doing it. So we'll talk about what those speculative things are that he saw in our in our next section. But yeah i would say that as well specula- fiction more than science fiction A little bit of dystopia in fiction on top of this and that brings me to how this seems to be king taking bits and pieces of other famous writers. And they're speculative fiction or science fiction. So you get a lot of thousand nine hundred eighty-four four with these ubiquitous televisions everywhere A little bit of a change from from that society but the fact that there's this whole class structure built in which is also apparent in nineteen eighty four nine hundred eighty four. We get the view from winston smith who is not in the lower class. But he's not in the ruling class either he sort of in that mid government worker class. Here we get the view from the other side around where ben richards in the underclass looking up at that those folks and then some fahrenheit four fifty one pieces with the way the society set up else did you notice. J. specifically for four fahrenheit four fifty one the freebie the television that you almost are forced to watch in fahrenheit four fifty one you do you have to like. There's a minimum requirement of watching tv every day and if you don't get fined arrested cetera so here we're like almost in that territory. What i kept seeing in king's omar to other influential writers. Was philip k dick like all day long in this book. So many of phil k dick stories. You know just the way he paints the world for you. The in terms of how people talk to each other how people get around how people just move through the world how people dress ridiculous or not the nearly naked female fashion in this story is very much phil k dick where women were basically spray paint and that's all in shoes. Maybe i dunno. It's crazy it's silly but it's similar and It made me feel like. I was reading another philip k dick story. It's a fun little book and one of the things that i really like about it. And i've mentioned before how much a fan of game shows is how it nails the game show. Yeah sort of bullseye of what game shows could become so. He's writing this in the early eighties. And you know we had password in price is right and wheel of fortune jeopardy but this really captures like what are game shows are like now with survivor and naked and afraid and the amazing race. It's very much a this is where game shows could go and compared to the long walk which is also supposedly league game of some sort and king sorta shoe horns in the epigraph said at the beginning of the chapter. That around game shows it just works so much better here because these are actual game shows and it actually is a game show and you see a society in which these game shows would happen because there is this freebie because of the way that the masses are kept out and that they're engaged by the opportunity to win free money both as contestants and as observers who could turn people in in in the case of the running man and it just nails it and i i love that aspect of it because king just seem so prescient here. Yeah i think that's one of my favorite things about the casting of the movie. Adaptation is having richard dawson as killian. Roy it's just a brilliant casting and we'll get into that we get around to covering that episode which might be a bonus episode in future very nice any opportunity to talk about. Richard dawson is time. Well spent absolutely. I think one thing that king didn't get right when thinking about game shows of the future is the reason that people go on game shows so in the running man book. It's very clear that ben richards has no job. He used to work for a factory where people were getting radiated because it was the best job they could get now he no longer has a job and his wife's become a prostitute part time and have no money to get even the simplest penicillin for his daughter and so he has this great. Need to get money right. That's what he wants. I just want enough money to take care of my family and the game shows that we have nowadays while there is a component to it. You get the sense that people go on game shows today in the the twenty twenties because they wanna be famous not so much because of the money the money might be a byproduct of that when they start selling ads on instagram and become instagram influencers. But really what they want is their fifteen minutes of fame that they can hopefully parlay into thirty minutes of fame whether that beyond the bachelor or the amazing race or or survivor of any of these shows. People are willing to do the things that people are doing on this show for hundreds of dollars in the possibility of willing billions dollars people are willing to degrade themselves on tv nowadays just so they can have their name set on tv. Psychology of the motivations of fame versus money. They're so intertwined overlap. Because like let's say you're a contestant on some cooking competition show and you become the top chef and now you're super famous. But what does that fame partly into more success for your restaurants the ability to open more restaurants and that parlays into more money. So it's like fame leads to money money leads to fame etc it all kind of feeds on itself but i agree with you. That kings motivation is just about money. This is purely transactional. No one really cares about being known now they just need income so that's one place where he may be wasn't as present as he could have been but he gets so much else right. He basically envisioned. What are reality. Tv is today almost to a t. even the level of cruelty and and small-mindedness that goes with a lot of these shows because that's what people tune in for. They don't watch survivor. Because they wanna see who wins they wanna watch people bicker and fight with each other and that's all well and good but king. That's not what kings going for here right. I get the sense of that with this with all these other game shows. We're gonna talk about some of the ones that they have on there. It's that these shows are really just there to to keep people tuned in not to know. Maybe i'm being too high. Fluid like game shows could educate people like like jeopardy. You're watching to see if just foxworthy would die of a heart attack and eventually just gave up. Yeah i guess this ties into king's class critique right. Yeah that that's really his target. Yeah it's a huge part of this novel. Just like the difference in this society between the haves and the have nots. There's those that are ultra poor like ben richards. There's that middle brow audience who are engaged in watching the game shows and they live in the nicer parts of the city and they have money but they're still parted parcel and are being used by the ultra rich which is the network right like they see them as the the dumb rubes who are watch these tv shows and and call in when they see somebody on the street but it's really the society of three tiers. Yeah and it's a lot. Like how ancient rome is is sort of depicted today where you know like the the lowest tiers were the people who ended up bloodying each other in the arenas in the gladiatorial games. And the the aristocrats arranged the gladiatorial games to entertain the masses to keep them from realizing how bad off their lives were and rebelling against the the you know the upper class so this feels like a reinterpretation of the those gladiatorial games. It's yeah come. Take a risk. Take a shot. But there's a big reward if you you can make it through. I mean the jokes on them though that no one ever makes it through these things right now and in fact. There's no expectation that they will like. Richard's doesn't think he's gonna make it right. he's just like i. i hope i get enough. Are my wife could buy penicillin for my daughter. I inevitably die but we're giving the sense. That richards is kind of unique in this book. Not only in his politics but in his i guess his fortitude his intelligence. He's he's a little bit more self-aware and introspective than the average character in the the other contestants on the other shows they just seem like. I'm going to try that treadmill for bucks thing and they ended up dying on the treadmill and that that's it but they don't necessarily go in there thinking i can beat this game right right or maybe they do go in there thinking i can beat this game and realized that there is no beating it just like all the boys in the long walk right. Yeah they all thought they could and then when the reality hits like oh no. We're all going to lose but one of us. Even that one person is probably not going to be better off because of this. Exactly you mentioned how. Richard is a little different and dan. Killian was the producer of the show. Not the not. The host like is in the movie but the the producer of the show. I think it's because of that that he seems to take a liking richards. Who i don't think that he is the type of person who's giving everybody hints on how to potentially win or survive or having in-depth discussions about his character i would imagine most producers like kill. You would be like okay. You're next year next. But he sees something different him like. Oh you might be one of us. You're still going to be on the show and you're going to die but hey you get it. We're not pulling the wool over your eyes. You're not a rube like the rest of these folks and that's what he says like. Hey they all hate your guts. And i know you hate them right. The feelings mutual. That's how the classes work exactly. Yeah each class is ready to consume the one below it and that puts richards in his. The lowest class is ready to be chewed up and spit out by everybody else. There is nobody below him to chew up and spit out and he's keenly aware of that. He hates everybody else as much as they seem to hate him. So let's talk about ben richards the character. If you've only experienced the running man through the movie you'll realize that. Ben richards in the book is not anywhere near arnold schwarzenegger. He's described as being twenty eight years old six foot two and one hundred sixty five pounds. So he's basically a away fried like he did to nothing. Because he's undernourished. And i think he's preaching to bixler killian says to richards your regarded his anti authoritarian antisocial deviant. Who has been intelligent enough to stay out of prison in serious trouble with the government. And you're not hooked on anything later on. Richard says about himself what he's filming himself says he never would have believed. He possessed any sort of creative humor. The self image he always held with that of a rather dour man with little or no humor in his outlook. The prospect of his approaching death at covered solitary comedian hiding inside and while richards in the running man is very funny. He's funny Even before he's on the face of death. Silk not at all. What you picture in in arnold and i think also in the movie arnold ben richards is a ex military god who framed for a crime he didn't commit and and this richard is nothing like that As we said poor he's angry and and he wants to do something but he doesn't know how to do it at the point that the story starts. Richards is probably motivated almost entirely by rage. It's due to the frustration of not being able to provide for his family. It's due to the acute nature of his daughter's illness. And how relatively minor of thing. It is but even even as simple as something that just needs relatively inexpensive medicine. He can't even get that so he's ready to just burn the world down because he realizes that it's not just get some money. Get some medicine get his daughter better and then things will be okay. He's thinking a few steps beyond that. Even if he were to achieve that his life would still be awful and there doesn't seem to be any way for it to ever be better. So that's why he's like you know what screw it right. I'm just gonna go on the network and make some money. I'm gonna throw myself into that meat grinder. Because that's what i know. It is but in the process some money will come out of it and at least that will help end in the process. Who knows what damage i can do. While i'm going down right. That makes him a really interesting character. He is like the quintessential nothing to lose character. Plus given the extra angles of is keen intelligence and judge of human character in things like that. He's pretty resourceful even for someone who isn't a trained soldier or or anything like that he. He's good at thinking on his feet and it serves him. Well at least this So far in the story right. I will say that one of the things that maybe necessarily wasn't my favorite part of this story. At least at the beginning. Part is we spend a lot of time on richard's trying out for the game show. It takes up the bulk of this first third of the novel. You know him deciding. I'm gonna go do a game show. You don't get to choose which one to sorta goes through this testing and we get to see in-depth all off the testing that he gets to go through. Yeah he goes to this floor and gets tested here and then he changes his clothes here and then he goes. It has a meal here and now he goes to this floor and then they're slowly calling people as he goes further and further up his building. And it's just like okay when we finally get to the end and sort of explains like here's the type of character you are richards. And this is another case where king has both told us and shown us and we probably only needed one or the other but we didn't need both a spend a little bit of time on it. It definitely picked up towards the end. We started getting into him actually playing the game. But there's a lot of chapters where we're going through this whole what's happening at the network. And how do you try out for these shows. I agree with everything you just said but there is one kernel of in there that i really appreciated the story for in. That is the symbolism of richard's ascent through the network building. Yes he goes into the ground floor and he is. He's as low as he gets because he's part of this lowest rung of the ladder of society and then because he is physically more fit mentally more acute than or mentally more capable than his neighbor. Then he gets to go to the next floor and those things continue to be true so next floor next four next floor to eventually. He reaches the highest floor. He can go and then he is ejected and dropped all the way back to the bottom right but we know that that's not the top floor of the building. They're still higher to go. And that's where like the preparation for the show him within like a breath of the top rung of society and then he is immediately ejected. So there's this wonderful thing of him climbing a ladder like the he's literally ascending and he gets almost to the top and then dropped the bottom out and then he has to survive even ask killing at one point. Like how do i get up there. Killings like you'll never be up there in oregon. It doesn't matter you'll know. Never see it as you go all right so this book came out in one thousand nine hundred eighty two j. I one thousand nine hundred two is when the gunslinger came out. Is that fact. It is a fact so there must be thousands of dr tower thing. He's he's thinking about these things. Simultaneously king is right. Yes i managed to find a a couple of theories. How about you did you find any. I found one laid on me all right. My theory is that richards lives at a made up. City called harding. And not sure what it's supposed to represent we know it's in the mid west aware so possibly chicago detroit. I'm thinking and he lives in an area of town called coop city and as we know coop city is in the bronx in our world but in the drawing of the three we learned that eddie dean is from co op city in brooklyn in his earth. And so that just made me think that there are other worlds than these and they all seem to have a op city. I'll allow it. I like it when you got the first one that i noticed. Was that the general pejorative of choice in this story is the word maggot. People say things to each other like get stuffed magget and things like that and maggot is used in the same way in the dark tower especially like when court is disciplining rowland or roland disciplining his apprentice gunslingers. And it just seems like that's like the generic out of time in salt. That people enroll world in gilead and in this story. The running man seem to us so magazine. it is i like it. What else at one point. When he's on the run rich urge checks into a ymca when he checks in he pays fifteen dollars and fifty cents for the room and he gets room five twelve. And if you add the digits of the cost in the room number together guess what it adds up to. I think i know is a nineteen j. It's nineteen sean. you're gonna drive yourself crazy adding up numbers. And i've got one more for you. Okay when riches getting his fake id the old man who's making his fake id. Forum says something to offhand. He's quoting a is quoting movie. Europe or a book or something he says. Remember you have the power to cloud men's minds and what he's referencing is the shadow who is a superhero who could cloud men's minds to make himself invisible or as some might say dim kind of like a certain dude named flag. Yeah that was a little bit of a stretch. But what are you talking about this stuff. An awesome any. It is good. It is good and any time you can. Reference to shadow is fantastic. I like that character that he needs to get the fake. Id from yeah me too. Because he knows about mick jagger who was in the beatles right who grew. Rick is like yeah. I know that person. He was in the beatles. He's humming bette. Davis is to himself as well. All right we'll see if there's more dark tower. The book continues but right. Now let's move onto yukking it up so we said that king is in a different type of story than usual. More speculative fiction than horror so. I didn't quite find so much yakking. It up moments. We might have until his other books. Richard's gas was off to a lot of disgusting situations. Because he's been told by killian to stay with your type of people and richard takes that to me. Like i should stay in the poor parts of town where i can and so that ends up in a place like the ymca with its common bathroom. That is the essence of urine shit puke and disinfectant mingled. Yuck my yakking. It up is along the same lines. there's a moment. Richard is kind of taking stock in his environment and the line is in the day. It is a deserted gray silence which contains no movement but the cats in the rats and fat white maggots trundling across the garbage. When i read that line and pictured a day that was so quiet that i could hear the maggots rolling around on top of garbage. I almost yuck that right up right. Dan yeah. I don't want to think about that. Yeah sorry for the delayed. The trigger warning their listeners. All right well we want to thank our patrons as always for supporting the show and getting access to exclusive patriot content such as bonus podcast episodes. We've been covering a lot of short stories from nightshift recently and soon. We'll be covering the running man movie as j alluded to earlier. So visit patriarch dot com slash. Two guys dark tower. learn more young. And we'd like to thank our newest patron. Tiffany s recently joined at the gunslinger level. So thank you tiffany. That is fantastic. Thanks again tiffany all right. I think it's that time of the show where we get into some fun stuff. Let's do it. I've hinted at the other game shows besides the running man that are on the network. We've got such winners as treadmill two bucks fund guns. Dig your grave. How hot can you take it swim. The crocodiles guns don't think this is a game show as much as a ongoing sport but there's also kill ball. I think out of all of those. It sounds like dig. your grave. Might be the worst. Like i'm not sure. What the game is there get. You're definitely gonna die at the end of that right like the other one fun guns like maybe that sounds like it's all right but dig your grave like i don't know what exactly the game is. I mean swim the crocodiles. You might get out of that with a missing limb or something but right. Dig your grave. They might need to consult with the branding team on that one. We gotta work this a little bit more. I found yet another old dog ear in this book. And it's big clouds condense around small particles align that. I liked many years ago. When i married the book and while i'm on the subject of a nice writing another line i thought was really cool. It looked like the skeleton of a murdered idea. That is a neat little line. I like it yeah. I don't know how to categorize this. But i was entertained by it so i threw it into fun stuff that it seems that in the future. Hellscape that it is ben richards life. The word irish is slang for explosive and was in the line. What are you afraid. Someone might take a stick of irish to your ignition. some night. I have to assume that that has something to do with the ira and terrorist bombings and all that stuff. That was going on around same time. The king was thinking of writing this book whose at its peak i think. Yeah yeah definitely. And i i thought the dow was maybe just a piece of slang that i hadn't heard because it immediately made sense and i got a reference and i'm like oh that's cool. I wonder how often that's used. Because i'd never heard of before. Google search like italy comes up in this book. As far as i can tell i got a lot of Chalet and walking sticks from the irish but no explosives stick of irish. There's a drink the called the irish car bomb. Yes there is. I think you put like a flaming shot in it right. I guess or maybe just slap a sticker virus to the glass and see what happens. I i'm going to put that in my everyday conversation for sure so any other fun stuff all right. My last one is that we are trying to figure out where harding was. It's really the only fake city. That king uses So far he tries to ethic when the producers of the show or getting up interest in the in the show they say where will richards appeared next. Will it be new york boise albuquerque columbus and of course jay notice the columbus right away because we both started the show in columbus. Lived there now. But we started at columbus but even of more interest to jane. I is albuquerque because of weird al. I never been on a real airplane before. really great. If you've got nine minutes. Please listen to albuquerque by weird al. It's well worth your time. Yeah you'll find out whether or not he likes sauerkraut all right. Well that's going to be all for this episode of two guys to the dark tower came. Thanks jay thank you links to all of our social media is available to show notes if you the show. Please rate us on apple podcasts. To support the show visit patriot. Dot com slash. Two guys dark tower next episode. Join us as we continue our coverage of the running man with chapter. Seventy two forty three for j russo. I'm sean mcgurk. Thanks for listening. Give another go. And i'm sean burger q. Got line. And i'm sean in the year. Twenty twenty-five ben richards is.

ben richards phil k dick richards Richard philip k dick Richards king Richard dawson jay rousseau shawn digger stephen king Dan killian john rao uman society winston smith killian bixler killian
Everything's Eventual

Chat Sematary

33:07 min | 8 months ago

Everything's Eventual

"Everyone chat cemetery is back as is Dennis Freeman. Today we're talking about the two thousand, two collection everything's eventual, and this includes eleven, short stories and three novellas so I know you said, this is one of your favorite collections if not your favorite. So how you doing Dennis? Are you ready to talk about one of your favorite collections here? Oh. Yeah absolutely. This has been a remember when this came out my mom actually let me skip school and we went and got a copy of this. It's one of my favorites. Yeah and before we dive into discussing some of the bigger stories here it's One of those things where you know we probably won't get to everything. So I just want to quickly list out all of the stories and where they were originally published. So I up, we have autopsy room for from six stories, the man in the black suit from an issue of the New Yorker. All that you love will be carried away also from an issue of the New Yorker, the death of Jack Hamilton again, issue of the New Yorker clearly the New Yorker really likes Stephen King. In the death room. which was a blood and smoke audiobook. The little sisters of Loria which was published in legends. Everything's eventual obviously title story. Was published in the magazine of Fantasy and science fiction Lt's theory of pets another one from six stories the road virus heads North, which was from nine hundred and ninety nine not sure what that is but I'm sure it's some sort of publication lunch at the Gotham cafe published in dark love that feeling you can only say what it is in French from the New Yorker Fourteen o eight also and smoke. Writing the bullet is actually an e book that he released and included it in this collection lucky quarter from an issue of USA weekend. So there's a lot here and because I mentioned. A few of them are novellas. You get a sense that it's a good mix of things for him as far as I collection goes Oh. Yeah. Definitely, and it's a it's long for a short story collection I. was three three novellas in there I think my copy was somewhere around five hundred and seventy pages or something. So it's definitely a lengthy read and we should go ahead and just talk a little bit about autopsy room for because this one was eventually adapted into an episode of the nightmares and Dreamscapes TV series that aired in two thousand six. So I haven't watched it just yet. But I. Always WanNa try to talk about the ones that end up becoming adaptations, and obviously more of these could become adaptations down the line because nothing's off limits when it comes to Stephen King but autopsy room for is a real attention grabber. So it's perfect as the first story in this collection definitely, and if I'm not mistaken there with the Was His name was Steven I, the guy who played Old Bill in the original. It series in the gym actually playing the main character on the table on that one when at least the short story is actually pretty good. One of my favorites, but it's definitely. Definitely scary. Yeah and you get the feeling that he was trying to mislead you because at first you think truly is a dead body and you're kind of trying to figure out what's going on and then when there's the twist Oh, oops, he's not dead but we almost. Did the autopsy on them? You're just like, Oh, my goodness, that is a literal nightmare to think about. See and that's kind of what I was. Like, you were saying when I first read it that for me was like, okay, is this what happens when we die is that the scary part like we just we just know in don't go but not when they found out. They actually found out he was alive I was more relieved. Yeah. It's one of those things where it's so close to becoming a complete disaster that when you find this out, you're like Oh. Okay. You know maybe we're here wolf things about it I was. The Peruvian. That he was talking about I remember the after I had read it I kinda done some some research and turns out that the snake used to i. mean there are boom slayings, but he completely made up the snake in that thing. So there was like for months I was terrified of fixed nick. Yeah and I wouldn't say where I live now has a ton of snakes. I've only really seen one and it was dead. So it was like a bird had dropped it or something, and it still startled me but I was like, oh no after reading this is like I don't want to come into contact or be near anything that could cause anything like this. So good to know it's fake. I live in the American south and. There's copperheads, black snakes and all kinds of fun ones in the water to. I'm not a fan of snakes to begin with what did you think of the whole? prepping for the autopsy scene because I felt like he wrote it so well that you could literally visualize the characters every move. and. It definitely was one of those things where you can tell that he researched like it seriously felt like he had went through the trouble of actually looking stuff up. So I was I was pretty happy about it was pretty cool. Yeah. I was thrilled when I read this first story and it just completely grabbed my attention because. I haven't been super fond of the short story collections in particular. I, don't know if it's Just because there's so many packed into these collections that I don't really have a ton of time to sit with each one because I'm literally reading them as if they were chapters of an entire book and you know I think something like different seasons because you get to spend a little more time with those being novellas, you get to have those sink in by the time you're done with the book because there's only four whereas. Most of his collection seemed to have at least ten stories. Some have way more if there are no novellas in them. So it's just so much to take in at once but with this one I felt like. It was a very, very solid collection. I didn't really find myself board with too many of these and you have a couple that actually play into dark tower. You have the little sisters of Luria and apparently everything's eventual ties into it as well and. Dowell was all that tie in was so exciting when I first read the I, I was so shot. Yeah. The Way He ties in the dark tower sometimes is just so amazing because there are certain tie-ins that aren't super obvious. But then when you have something like the little sisters of Loria, it's like Oh. Okay. You know here's Roland. We know it ties in. Right. That was yeah that was. The second. You see like we're talking about the gunslinger you're all here we are. Let's do it. Yeah and I like that this just gave you another glimpse into something Roland had been through and you really start to get a better feel for the character with some of these tie INS and. You have books like the eyes of the Dragon that art quote Unquote Dr Tower Novels. But they still tie in in an interesting way. They all touch at the very least. But it was nice to get a story about Roland right before I'm going to go into. Books Five, six and seven back to back to back because that's how he released them after his accident he realized, Oh, I, have to finish up the story in case anything happens to me since he seems to be a guy who has quite a bit of bad luck at times. Man. I remember my mom when that happened. She was a huge Stephen King added and. When she heard that he got hit, she was beside herself, and then after she had called down, she realized that she wasn't going to get the read the rest of the Chart Thai. That would have been. Things would have been a whole lot different if we lost. Stephen. King back then absolute best podcast would pretty much be over with this book I imagine. Aside. From. Adaptations, of course, but as far as the novels and collections go, what did you think of the sisters and the fact that they turn out to be vampires at felt like he really wanted to mesh his fantasy world with his horror world and I, think it worked pretty well, you know. Honestly. I was the whole that was interesting enough the the sisters themselves were kind of cool. definitely shocked me when I found out exactly what they were. It was the doctor bugs that really. got. Me Because I don't know what it is about the mental image painted but it reminded me I'll the Langa leers almost. I don't know why but it was that. That's what in my head like little tiny language here. I can imagine how that visual would stick with you. Yeah. Right. What did you think of the title story then because the fact that both of these were back to back I think sort of just gives you a nice chunk of the dark tower all in one go. You know I've said actually said on this podcast before the Stephen King short stories are a lot of what Made me become a writer and everything's eventual is what made me actually start publishing the stories it is Dinky Shawl is kind of the everyman character he's you know the pizza delivery or whatever and. He just has something. INNATE IN HIS Mind that just makes him something when everybody else thinks he's nothing I dunno regardless of how us that ability I thought that the story itself was a pretty cool underdog story it really was and I didn't entirely catch onto the dark tower connection at first I was like Oh. This is kind of odd story. Yeah. And what was actually funny some of the names that I mean I guess you know how they say Kozel wheel you got Dick you're shaw who this particular character actually shows up. In in the dark tower but skip skipper Brannigan I believe is the kid's name from the story. He's actually also a dickhead friend of Eddie Dean right way back in the day in. Coop City. But you know so some of the names keep popping up even though they're not the exact same characters but then you have digging earnshaw who is the same character so it Kinda plays to the timelines that Stephen King really goes for with the dark tower. Yeah, and if I'm not mistaken dinky is up breaker. Ted from low men in yellow coats. So that's sort of how you get that connection there in the the whole idea of. Breaker aside, because I know we're working on everything's eventual, not the dark tower but the whole. Idea of psychics being used for. assassinations and the fact that he actually thinks he's doing. Good thing until he starts reading the paper like. That that to me. Ban that would just be could you imagine just the collateral damage that would really be like when you start realizing I'm being used to assassinate political rivals and teachers and things like that. Yeah it's. Wild. The things he comes up with sometimes you're like, okay. He kind of wants us to like certain characters but they tend to do things that are very unlikable. Yeah. Yeah and Stephen King making you like unlikeable characters as part of the reason I think people still read it's enjoyable I know a lot of his stories you just anti heroes. I mean Roland is a terrible terrible terrible euro right but he makes a Helvin anti-hero exactly while I think we can move onto fourteen o eight real quick here because I love a good haunted house haunted hotel haunted whatever story. Absolutely. It's every horror writers. What we all want to the horror nothing Stephen King nailed it. Yeah. So you have Mike Enslin who is a writer of nonfiction and he writes about haunted places which again, this kind of feels like what they did with haunting of Hill House because if I'm not mistaken wasn't one of the characters in that a writer and would write about sort of these ghostly paranormal experiences, I wanNA see. Yes I think maybe they were journalist I'm not one hundred percent sure but yeah, I. Believe you're right? Yes. So that kind of reminded me of that and then you have the guy who is showing Enslin. His Room and he has these stories and makes them have a drink with him and I really thought that just the way that character acted and I'm totally spacing on his name Mr Olen. There we go and it really just felt like there was something about the room and he didn't WanNa talk about it but he wanted to talk to the guy and you know you get all of these facts like there have been forty two deaths twelve of them were suicides over a span of sixty eight years and they're throwing these numbers at you and if you take a second and think you're like Wow. That's a lot. That's not just chance. You know there are always going to be things that happen at hotels unexpectedly or you know. Tragedies just happen and to have this room be that haunted and have that much bad luck. It's like, why didn't you stop letting people stay in that room after like to see and that's kind of like what was interesting about that is I, think what was it thirteen suicides? He's you know about the thirteen suicides what about the natural death and of course, insulin said. His inner monologue was had thought about it and to be honest neither at I like you just thirteen suicides. That's pretty terrible, but it's a big city that that ball fan has been in, you know for years and years and years. So I guess there's probably been suicides and other when he starts talking about the natural deaths where. And not any of them are very pleasant. So it just yeah that that to me was. Where you kind of realized Olen. Wasn't trying to feed him the story Oland was trying to save him. He was trying to make sure he didn't die. Yeah. I really just liked how this one progressed and played out I believe it's. One of the longer short stories if I'm not mistaken two, I don't remember which one is the longest fourteen. It feels even longer if you listen to the audio book is Stephen King is a great writer, but he for as the narrator, he kinda. He kinda. Has a lot to be desired. Yeah. There's also the fun fact that all of the numbers in the title up to the unlucky number thirteen. Yeah and writing. The bullet is one of the novellas because this was written as an e book and we've seen. Stephen King sort of. With formats, i. Semi recently read the plant and. The Way He released that the style of the book. The format of the book was totally different from anything he had ever done. So he was really trying to embrace this sort of new technology that was coming out at the time and e-books weren't super big in two thousand I would say I could be wrong about that but it seems like it's something that's becoming a little bigger now that more people have embraced the digital age see back then most people didn't think it was to take off at all like he wrote that one was her for kindle. Nobody thought that evokes we're going to be we're going to replace it may never replace they are definitely a great supplement. In the first twenty, four hours of the story being released as an e book over four hundred, thousand copies were downloaded and I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that the price point was two dollars and fifty cents as well. You know that's not Super Pricey for an umbrella and. When you are so used to paying, you know thirty bucks for hardcover something maybe not back. Then let's call it twenty bucks or something but that price point you're going to entice at least some people who are willing to read the book wherever they chose to, and you know I don't even know what the status of. Tablets like the kindle were at that time but I imagine it was definitely a risk for him. Definitely, the kindle wasn't super the one I had back then was the one that had its own Internet. Not, a very good one mind you but you can yeah, you know downloadable Volkan stuff and you could buy an online or what they other little store. It was very bare bones but that yeah, that whole era was kind of interesting and then when riding the bullet came out, it was I gotta be honest I wasn't one hundred percent sold on it. But I checked it out when it first came out it was pretty cool I i. Love it's one. It's a great story in general I. Love that it takes you back to a Lewiston too because we've seen so many real and fictional cities within main and sometimes king just quickly revisit certain places and you instantly know that you're in this Stephen King Universe. Second Year that loose than cal dairy the second you hear any of those are like, I know what we're doing and he perfectly wrote the creepy old man character. You know that's that's another thing. I wasn't exactly sure what was gonNA happen with that old dude I thought the old man I guess it's what we call. A dual citizen, it's kind of like. Like if you just stayed in that trump with that old man regardless of how we smelled or how he acted, everything could have been. Yeah it was just one of those things where this guy is being so creepy so you have. Allen, who is kind? Worried for his own safety reasonably, and he gets in a car with a person who is even more dangerous. Obvious that George is George Stop. I think. Yeah. that guy that was man that was wild. Yeah. It was definitely one of those things that felt like a roller coaster ride in book form. and. I don't know if that's necessarily like A. Or trope the get in the car that Guy I'm sure there are plenty of. Rive sales, old folklore's but that to me, the fact that is kind of went on. She kinda started to realize something wasn't right and. Actually kind of reminded me of Belch. Huggins from the from the IT. Will. Definitely got that vibe. So this is one that like fourteen eight was adapted into a movie. So you have. These two. Sort of bigger production movies and then you have autopsy room for that becomes a TV episode. So maybe not as big of a budget there but it's always interesting to me which stories. Are adapted and I have not seen any of the adaptation so I can't speak to the quality of them but I know they definitely got some big names for the two movies at least. I mean in this particular one, I can't remember I know David Arquette was in it witch in less. It's a scream movie I. Don't necessarily think it's big budget horror, but it also had Jonathan. Jackson in it who I mean he's done a lot of ABC soap operas and stuff but he he's definitely talented but I I really I didn't actually. It's been so many years. I've seen the film it's a Mick Garris production and he directed at he is someone who has been very ingrained in Stephen King's world just because he has done so many things and it looks like this actually wasn't a super big production and then cliff Robertson was in it. So he played uncle Ben and spider man trilogy that's sort of the thing I know him from but. It did not do well at the box office. It made one, hundred, thirty, four, thousand dollars and change. Stephen. King adaptations. He's he's happy to cash the checks. Man He needs to be selective sometimes. Yeah and you have fun little tidbits. It looks like Mapfre Moore returns. He's been in a few of the Mick garris things and I think. Some of the mackerras stuff is hit or miss for me. So it'll be interesting to see how I feel about that one. So really it's fourteen o eight that probably had the. Bigger budget I would say I mean. It has John Cusack and Samuel Jackson so you know they got paid. Cusak chilled as insulin and I mean you couldn't do better for an Olen than Samuel Jet Samuel L. Jackson in in a Stephen King film is like Stephen, Earth like Samuel Jackson in a quitting Tarintino fill light. It just makes sense in it's amazing. Every single time he does not miss. Yeah. There's actually one more story I want to touch on and it's the road virus heads North. Because this one was just so fascinating he took this. Idea of painting and did an entire story around. A painting that is based on one. He actually had that his family did not like and I love sometimes how he just takes these things from his real life and then adds. Twist to it that just. Gives it that extra push an makes it way more interesting though one was weird to me Oh an excuse me this actually is an episode of nightmare escapes. Under actually forgotten about that I was not I. Don't say I wasn't a fan of it. Wasn't one of my favorite stories but. It was super cool like the idea of. Basically racing this thing why? Screaming yeah it. Gave you that feeling of Oh God what's going to happen? Yeah, she stopped. As anti else? Yeah. Yeah it's stopped. He you know didn't really think anything of it but then like this, it kind of. Kind of Dorian gray meets the crazy of desperation. And a couple other stories from this have. been used as dollar babies. So there are some other adaptations out there from this collection, but they're probably going to be relatively hard to find you know like. Lunch at the Gotham cafe was adapted into a short film called Gotham cafe in two thousand five. It has some names attached to it. You know Stephen. King makes a cameo mackerras is in it. and IT WAS CO produced by Steve Wozniak who is Apple co-founder and it's just sort of. A well bizarre some of these things play out and you know. I might have to do some extra homework year and find more of these but Dennis. Is there any story in particular? We didn't touch on that you want to discuss. None that we didn't already touch on like fourteen. I. Honestly. Someday, I really want to see a Just a fool on breakdown of that book and movie that that one is probably one of my all time favorite like I was saying before it's just like every writer owes the horror God's at least the haunted house or a on hotel story in that that for me. was just terrifying like the phone calls in the room to when he finally set himself on fire to get out. That was probably one of my favorites stories in. Jan. not just king but just overall I also really loved the extra information he gave with each story kind of describing the inspiration for it. That was pretty cool. The you know it's funny because you always kind of wonder he always kind of jokes about how people ask where do you get your ideas and when he openly shares it like that is just it's it's hard not to be in wonder do sometimes and obviously he loves sharing how he comes up with ideas because he wrote on writing, he has some other books or essays that talk about the craft of writing. So he someone who is definitely willing to share and I think because. At least from what I can tell given how many quotes he has on other people's books you know like the press quotes and pull quotes and whatnot but. It feels like he just loves reading and writing so much and he wants to help inspire other people to do the same. So I love won anything like that is included in the books even if it's just a few of them were a paragraph maybe. That was. Just here just anything the man has to say, I, mean he's been publishing since the seventies and it's hard not to take everything. The man says his Gospel he is. I don't. WanNa say. I honestly think he's one of those guys we're. going. To. Be. Studying. you know fifty years from now. He's long after he's dead, he's going to be. Part of the culture, not just in horror, but in writing in general yeah I think a lot of what he has done has helped make the genre more accepted as well. kind of in the mainstream because you don't have too many. Horror Authors to my knowledge that have sold at the scale that Stephen King has. Not. I mean not while they were alive. That's for sure. Yeah. Most can't do that kind of output either most normal people anyway. Yeah, he is a frequent that that's that's a whole nother. You gotTa Kinda wonder how I mean he's dedicated and you treat it like A. I wonder that every day. I, do this podcast how? Right, it's like I. Mean you get you look at it. It's like how do you write that much so fast and it's because it's what he does and I think honestly. I know he says, he doesn't do it for the money, but I tend to believe him I. Don't think anybody writes that much for a paycheck. I think you just if he doesn't work the day stopped writing today. Going to have to say goodbye. Yeah and I'm with you on the whole money thing because if he was doing it for the money and because he wanted to be in Hollywood he wouldn't still be living in. Maine and Florida. Exactly man. The Mecca I gotta get out there. One time we gotta do a photo shoot out that way. I know he probably spends. I'm willing to bet he spends a little more time in Florida maybe not right now, but it is warmer there. Yes. We are recording this during the Cova pandemic in twenty eight for anyone listening far off in the future. Good luck everybody else yeah. Well, is there anything else you WANNA touch on with this collection Dennis Ee, we covered it and I really appreciate you having me on here. This is getting to sit in risk about Stephen. King is probably one of the. Best use of my time since the pandemic started yeah. It's always hard for me because I'm going through the. So quickly I'm like, okay here comes a collection. I. Know I'm not going to talk about it super in depth but. Lately I've been sort of brainstorming ideas for what happens to this podcast. Once I get caught up in, it might not necessarily. Have enough content to come out weekly just from you know the books and adaptations because like you said at some point. Probably the day he dies is going to be the day he stops writing and if something's unfinished who knows maybe joe or Owen will finish it up and it'll still get released but you know once I catch up which is still over a year off but you know once it's to the point where you know he releases one or two books a year, and maybe there's two or three adaptations a year I clearly won't have weekly content. So I'm kind of like, okay. Do I just do episodes as things come out or do I brainstorm? All of these ideas may be revisit certain stories that I WANNA go more. In depth on there. So many options there's so much Stephen King stuff out there. Oh Yeah. Some of it like the dollar babies of that is just you could probably you could probably work twenty years on just everything that was Stephen King. If you really really wanted to there are some short films that I do want to try to seek out. I just didn't for the purpose of this being a weekly thing and I didn't want to do stuff that guests would have ton of trouble finding. So maybe I will you know find Frank Darabont short that he did before Shawshank in the green mile or something like that. Man, anything you do on going to be downloading it. Would be downloaded your podcast no matter what. So it's always on the iphone I appreciate that and Dennis. I'm sure you will be back on for a future episode are still a few more collections to my knowledge. So thank you for coming on to talk about everything's eventual today. Just anytime anytime. Thanks for having me. It's been great. Of course, anything you want to plug real quick before we go. Mean Okay Yeah Let me go ahead. toot my own horn. No but I actually have my newest short story Fang. Bangers a tale. The servers is going to be releasing on audible very soon. So if you're familiar with the chair reverse just look me up on audible Dennis Rodman and you'll find slasher survival school thing bangers and brothers last call I am all over it. So I'm also on Amazon so. Hit me up on any of the social media to awesome and there will be links to all of those in the show notes for you guys. So Dennis thank you again. Thank you stay scared. All right. That does it for this episode of Chat Cemetery. You can support the podcast on Patriot on for a dollar a month you'll get a thank you. On the show for two dollars a month, I will send you a chat cemetery sticker, and if you want to follow us on social media, you can do so at chat cemetery on twitter instagram and facebook, you could also rate and review the show that's huge help and as always thank you for listening and we hope you enjoy the rest of your day.

Stephen King Stephen dark tower writer Dennis Roland Loria Steven I Dennis Freeman kindle USA magazine of Fantasy and scienc Gotham cafe Olen New Yorker Fourteen Dennis Rodman Eddie Dean Mick Garris Langa leers
Into Jamaal Bowmans Insurgent Run

Into America

25:09 min | 10 months ago

Into Jamaal Bowmans Insurgent Run

"So night as we celebrate, we don't just celebrate me as an individual, we celebrate this movement of movement designed to push back against the system. That's literally killing us is killing US mentally psychologically and spiritually? On June twenty third in New, York State Democratic primary election, a former middle school principal named Jamal Bowman claimed victory in his insurgent campaign for Congress. The absentee ballots are still being counted, but bowman has a substantial lead over the incumbent Eliot Engel a sixteen term, congressman and chair of the powerful House foreign affairs. Committee let me tell you something right now. Elliott Dingell and I'll say his name once used to say that he was dawn in the side of Donald Trump, but you know what Donald Trump is more afraid of than anyone else. A black man with power. New York's Sixteenth Congressional district, majority black and Hispanic include the bronx, but also stretches north, into some very wealthy white suburbs. In the past angle who is white and seventy three years old has pretty much cruised to reelection, but lately he's taken some heat for riding out the coronavirus pandemic at his home in Maryland while district was hard. And then at a news conference on racism and police brutality angle was heard on a hot mike appearing to say he wanted to speak only because he was facing a primary challenge, a challenge from Jamal Bowman. Bowman is black in his forty s and ran on a platform of Medicare for all a green deal, canceling student debt and other issues of racial and economic justice. Only, this is into America. Today we're going into the life of politics moment, a Black Progressive Democrat a newcomer who is part of a progressive movement taking on the establishment. He's gotten the backing of progressives like Joe, Cortez, and Bernie Sanders and the working families, party, which is now teaming up with the Movement for black lives to form a political action committee. I wanted to know how this former educator came the politics, and why he decided to take on one of the most powerful Democratic Congress. Jamal Boma! Thank you so much for joining us of course brother, thank you for having me. You came out of nowhere for a lot of people and shook up the political establishment, but give us a sense of where you came from. How did you arrive here? Yes, so for the last twenty years I've worked in public education a started teaching in the Bronx in nineteen, ninety nine in the. The case of four school with fifteen hundred kids. Most of them are recently arrived to the country. did that for about five or six years before becoming a dean of students at the high. School for arts and Technology and part of my job was to monitor metal detectors as black and brown kids walked in so often say I felt more like a corrections officer than an educator. At that point I decided to organize parents, teachers and students and write a proposal for a new district public school that we wanted to open in the North Bronx We wrote the proposal, two thousand and eight. We submitted it in two thousand nine in September. Two Thousand Nine Cornerstone Academy for Social Action Middle School was born so for the last ten and a half years I've served as a middle school principal in addition to be an education organizer, so yeah I didn't quite come from nowhere, but I. Know for some that may be the case. So when you think back to your your formative years young Jamal Bowman and thinking about where you are now. was there a moment with their feeling with? There's something going on in your life that you connect now and say this. Why do this? I mean my mom first and foremost. My mother told me I could be anything I wanted to be, and I believed her like I remember that conversation like it was. Yesterday was seven years always sitting in the dining room i. don't remember what we do. We were doing but My mother told me that not believed her. She's a single mom. I have three sisters and you know she gave us. She gave a street thing she gave. Gave us love a stable home, and she gave a self confidence, and that's springboard to everything I've done in my life, and on the other side of that I would say that I got lucky. I was a street kid. I used to always be out in the street, playing with my friends, getting into fights getting into trouble at school. All those things and there are many times I could have been killed. You know like I was involved. I was around shootouts, men and you know. Dan, God? You know I was able to make it through. was there a moment when you said you know what I gotta get into politics or gotta get in the race? I do something more than what I'm doing. was there an actual moment? Yeah, you know. Nelson Mandela. Has a quality says know. Education is the most powerful tool tool that can be used to change the world, so for twenty years I tried to do that and education like I tried to make my classroom like a revolutionary classroom teaching, our kids about history and culture, and their unlimited potential empower. Just felt like I kept banging my head against a system that was immovable. Wasn't a system that was responsive to the needs of our kids and for me. The tipping point occurred in twenty, seventeen, twenty, eighteen, when thirty four children died within the K. to twelve school system in the bronx and seventeen dive via suicide. and. As educators and as people of Color, we know the connection between trauma, poverty and bad policy that comes from Washington and right here in his district in coop city, a young girl who was bullied in school who came from foster care system went to the top of a building right after school in jumped off the building. Commit suicide. And right here in new Rochelle two girls got into a fight guy to argument outside new. Rochelle high school during a lunch. Break One pulls out. A knife stabs the other in murder, and I never saw heard our elected officials early center in Trauma Censoring, poverty and censoring the needs of our most vulnerable in their political discourse, or in the policies that they fought for so it was that that led me to begin thinking about when we started exploring and talking about congressman. Engel the number. One worry we continue to hear was absent. For me. That was just unacceptable, and that's when we decided to get into the race. I want to zero in on that idea of trauma. What is it political response to trauma? What did they actually look like? It's centers on wellness and wellbeing, and as centers on public health in a holistic way, so when we talk about defunding, the police is not just about taking resources away from a police department at brutalizes us, so we need to rethink policing and public health over all, and as we deal with and sexual trauma and generational trauma, then to be a period of truth and reconciliation as a country to acknowledge the harms of slavery and institutional racism. How literally lives in the bones and the? The DNA of everyone in this country, but in terms of policy it's about focusing our healing. The wounds of history that has kept us out of economic opportunity so policy that provides opportunities to buy homes at well below market rate so we can be to bill wealth through homeownership policies that invest in minority. Women owned businesses Dow allows us to build wealth from the perspective of entrepreneurship policies that provide universal healthcare policy is focused on early childhood and early. Childhood is critical because early childhood. Allows us to create nurturing environments in our communities have both been neglected where sexual trauma is passed down education fully funding our public schools in alignment with with the needs of children, not in alignment with property taxes, too many policies reparations, being the umbrella, but underneath reparations we have two notches, put money in the pockets of people, but make sure we pass policies in areas where institutional racism still exists. So so Jamal, the sixteenth congressional district begins in the Bronx and goes north to some of the suburb in the city's gives a sense of place in would your district actually encompasses and also the different constituency groups that make up geography? If we were a nation, we would have the eighth worst economic inequality in the world it's economically unequal and is racially unequal. Right so when you're looking at the black and Brown. People in the district are comprised of are concentrated in. The North Bronx North East Bronx mostly as well as Yakkers malvern parts of new Rochelle and the wider quote, unquote parts of the district are. Everywhere else north on another Westchester side of the district, but after murder and lynching of George Floyd. As we saw black lives matter rallies across the country. We saw black lives matter rallies here in this district and some of the whitest wealthiest. Of the district where we had two thousand people turn out. People are demanding change and entitled of the Institutional Racism Persists and it's younger people and it. It's so it's not just. People who are white and wealthy younger people driving the ship, and this is the Moma foster be very urgent and very aggressive in taking advantage of of all of that. When you think about your constituents and on one side, you have the Bronx and other side. You have wealthy Westchester County. How do you address the needs of all these different constituency groups issues like environmental justice, a cross, race and class issues like universal healthcare cross racing class, the wealthy in this district and across the country believe in in the federal minimum wage and believe that everyone should have a right to a job and the right to housing right so even though those issues may not impact those people directly. They still believe other should have those opportunities. When we come back. Jamal Bowman takes through a thrilling election night. And we'll talk about what he wants to accomplish in DC. We'll. Be Right back. Hey! It's Chris as this week on my podcast. Wise is happening I'll be talking with neuroscientist Dr, crawl heart about the insidious ways stories of degeneracy, drugs and blackness had been inter weaved in the American story, those far more crack in white communities, why people always use crack more than black people, but the face of crack was black people, and it was a way for us to dismiss the problems of that group of because we can say if it's crack well. That's their own doing this week, I'm. Why is this happening search for? Why is this happening wherever you're listening right now and subscribe? We choose to go to the movies and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard. I'm Chuck Rosenberg on my podcast. The oath I speak with those who sacrificed for the common good who do things because they are. This week former under secretary of Defense Jim Miller. I worked with people who were committed to doing the right thing for the country who were patriots both military civilian personnel who are willing to literally put their lives on the line for their country. Join me for season. Three of the of an MSNBC podcast search for the oath wherever you're listening right now and please subscribe new episodes everyone's Day. We're back with Jamal Bowman. Let us. Talk About Your Primary Against Eliot Engel I. What gave you the audacity the challenge thirty year incumbent. Nerve! What gave you that sense of you know what there's a chance. My wife would say that I'm crazy. Be Part of it made you don't create crazy enough to believe. Does something like that was possible? You know I've been so inspired and empowered by my students over the years, and what what they've been capable of and what they've shown in the classroom, and beyond, and it was a combination of that inspiration, a combination of a gap between what I saw missing from our communities, and what elected officials were talking about, and then literally looking at the numbers and seeing wait a minute delay three hundred thousand registered Democrats in this district. Only thirty thousand voted in the primary am I. Think was wow, this person is. Winning congressional seat. Year after year with only twenty two thousand votes and making decisions. Trillion dollar decisions that impact the lives of millions of people right, he supported the nineteen ninety-four Crime Bill, which we are still trying to repeal and replace. He supports Policies Favor Wall Street over main street. He voted for the Iraq war, and against the Iran deal takes money from weapons manufacturers in corporations. So this is not a person that we need in Congress, to help our communities of color, historically disenfranchised communities, so for me, looking at those numbers and looking at you know everything he has represented. It was like okay I can. I could probably knock on. Doors myself if I started a year in advance, but luckily for me, you'd always nominated to the Justice Democrats and they endorsed us from the very beginning, and that helped us to organize a progressive grassroots movement throughout the district so shout to the Justice Democrats shot to the working families. Party I could be on and on because we were endorsed by sixty grassroots organizations, so it wasn't just me. But? How much weight and value did the endorsements of like? Bernie Sanders the squad. How how helpful was that in terms of elevating your stature so quickly in your profile so quickly? Man It was. It was a tremendous aspect of the crescendo that we hit as a campaign. I mean we were grinding and grinding and grinding doing very very well and then Congressman Engel had the hot Mike Moment so that day our campaign raised one hundred and ten thousand dollars on average in a day on average. We raise about two thousand dollars right the next day. Congresswoman Woman Cossio. Cortez endorsed us. We raise another ninety, eight, thousand that day, and our have ridge from that day to the end of the campaign with the Bernie Sanders Endorsement, the Elizabeth Warren endorsement helped us to bring the campaign home in the end. So take us to June twenty third. Going into the night. I'm sure you've thought you had a chance, but you think you will win. And was there a moment where he said I think we got this. Listen I didn't allow us. We didn't allow ourselves to believe that. We got it at any moment throughout the campaign. But on election day as we did our bus tour. We went to places in a district where I didn't even canvas. You know and I'm embarrassed to say that you can't get everywhere and in one area one place there was this long line for people to vote and I just walked by to say hello and introduced myself and the way people turned toward me. And took out their phones and started recording, and just how they were listening I was like hold up, okay this. This is really good like. If we're getting this kind of reception and places, we didn't even canvas and then that day everywhere we went. It was energy in this excitement of people who were either either going Vo for us. We'll have already voted for US my campaign manager Show me the early voting coming in. And again like still. Myself to believe the early numbers, but we were destroying him in the bronx the Bronx. And Westchester numbers started coming in, and it was like we will winning areas like Hartsdale. I'm like okay if we're winning in Hartsdale. This might be big. You know and now and they're still counting absentee ballots, but the early results are consistent with what we saw the pulse. When you think about that excitement from corners of the district that. Felt forgotten for a long time and he they are calling your name unseating thirty plus year incumbent, and you think about the other progressive candidates who are winning elections across the country. What do you think your race is about the shifting dynamics that we're seeing? From an older guard to something new yeah, I mean I would go back to twenty sixteen. You know away and Senator Bernie Sanders, calling out economic injustice in all its forms that galvanize a new group of politically engage people in the overall democratic process, and that spawned the creation of the Justice Democrats which led to support of and the elections of the squad twenty. Twenty eighteen, so we're just a part of that movement and continuing that wave if it were for them particularly to squad I. Mean we're talking about four women of color going up against the white supremacist patriarchy of our country from inside the system, speaking truth to power, calling it out and destroy it in all its forms, so we're following the footsteps of those. Those four amazing women of Color and following the stand on the shoulders of our ancestors in doing this work, so it it means is, it feels like America's is ready in the world is ready for this transformative change. We are part of, but as we know, we got to continue to do the work like I I personally. I didn't run for office just. Just to get in the office. If I, get an office out, do anything down. Mas stayed behind home, and that tried to be a part of this, but now that I'm in office as I said during my speech on election night time causing trouble is time the speech. OOFTA power and bring attention to the issues that Matamoros now look forward to doing that. Now you you brought up the squad, which is inspired a lot of people across the country, but again they have taken some shots even from with inside the democratic machine. If and when you get to Washington with this grassroots support with this super progressive kind of agenda. How does that translate into the big? Political process in the big de-democrats Democrat, and how do you actually navigate those spaces coming? When the winds of that very aggressive progressive push to quote fifty cent? Yeah, y'all got a purple Hoffa war and I never left the city. We're pretty strong. You know we're we're. We're battle-tested, you know. We understand that there will be pushed back, but we also know there are many in the house many in the Senate and most importantly voters throughout the country who agree with the policies that we are pushing forth poll. Poll after poll after poll shows support for Medicare for all poll after poll show support for green new deal, and particularly now where in the biggest crisis, since the Great Depression and what happened during the Great Depression FDR implemented a new deal and the workers progress administration and federal jobs guarantee creating millions of union jobs. That's exactly what we need right now, so there are many people who continue to push back, but police have the majority of the people in this country behind us and on our side. As an education expert, and with your history I, wonder what you think about the children of our communities who have been out of school who've been impacted by all of this in ways that we won't see for years and the trauma. How do we get them back into classrooms? And how do we get them? Hold from everything that's been shipped away. We need the full resources of the federal government to be brought to bear to make sure our children can return to school safely and in environments where we can accelerate their learning number one. We need to hire more teachers. Because in order, the lower class is, we need more teachers to teach smaller groups of students number two. We need to be innovative and creative in the spaces that we are using classrooms learning spaces so right now here in New York. City, we have theorized and convention centers and corporate offices that. That aren't being used because of the pandemic does need to be retrofitted and created as learning spaces, so we could give kids as much face time with with an adult teaching them as possible. The online learning platforms are inadequate They don't meet the needs of the majority of our kids. Particularly children with special needs when I say resources from the federal government I mean money directly to school districts so that they can retrofit spaces to be alignment with CDC recommendations, which has increased ventilation, cleaning, mask, gloves and everything that's needed there. That's the only way parents and grandparents and others are going to feel safe sending their children to school. Obviously, these are really tough times. What is Jamal Bowman due to stay hopeful to stay sane stay grounded. What's Your Regiment had? Another great question, man I I am lucky and blessed to have an amazing partner and my wife Melissa Oppenheimer Boming. We've been married for several years. I think fives. Don't don't tell her that I. Trouble intro but we. We've been together for several years. We've been married for several years. We have two children. We have a home, but very lucky that just have this stable environment here number two. I try to do the best I can to eat right and exercise on a consistent basis, madam, sound small, but in terms of remaining balance in terms of my own sort of mental health and energy eating right and exercising on a consistent basis, and really paying attention to diet, and those particular habits, and doing everything I can in terms of prayer and meditation and just staying center a spiritually. To just help deal with everything that's happening in the world and transition to this new responsibility I. Have you know as a as a member of Congress? I have one last pretty serious question man when you get to Washington, D. become part of the squad like an honorary member. You get to hang out to pin a lapel pin or something listen. I'm hoping for pin a t shirt. And I'm hoping to be not an honorary member, but an actual member of the squad. You know so I'm Gonna I'm GonNa Start soon as they count the final vote I'm going to start lobbying to be a part of the squad as soon as they're done. Jamaa Bowman. Thank you brother for your time. Really appreciate it. This was. This is fantastic. Thank you awesome, thank you. That was Jamal. Bowman the Democrat running to serve the sixteenth congressional district of New York. and. A separate news update before we go last week. We reported on the Justice Department's plan to resume federal executions for the first time in seventeen years, the first of four scheduled executions was supposed to be today in Indiana. But with just hours to spare, a judge blocked off federal executions for now saying the method of lethal injection. Unconstitutionally cruel and unusual punishment. The Justice Department is appealing the decision. Into America is produced by Isabel Angel- Alison. Bailey Aaron Dot Max Jacobs Barbara, Rab and Clare Tie I should turner and pre Var thon. Original music by Hannes Brown. Our Executive Producer is Ellen Franken. Steve Lick. Tie is executive producer audio. I'm charmingly. We'll be back on Wednesday. Start Your mornings with the news that matters in just ten minutes I'm Nyla Voodoo host of axios today every weekday, I'll be talking to a team of award. Winning journalist to bring you scoops from the White House analysis on the economy and insights into the trend shaping our world. axios is known for our smart brevity. Reporting in our newsletters. HBO Show Now we've teamed up with Pushkin Industries to bring that to a podcast. It's like taking a seat at the smartest breakfast table in the world. Listen wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

Jamal Bowman Bronx Senator Bernie Sanders Congressman Engel America Congress US Jamal New York Democratic Congress Jamal Boma congressman School for arts and Technology principal Hannes Brown murder Donald Trump Medicare Maryland
Hour 1 Fake polls have Trump losing to Biden

Mark Simone

33:19 min | 11 months ago

Hour 1 Fake polls have Trump losing to Biden

"In. New York Seven W. Well. Get through today, president trump really in trouble what the hell is going on with Mayor de Blasio will on the latest on what's opening, and when and all that stuff and it's Friday. That's the good news Joe Bartlett We're in South Carolina what is keep hearing about this spike down there Florida Texas. You're on the list of. How do you know anybody that's had it or very worried about it down there? Actually personally I. Don't know anybody that has it down here, but I I get the numbers in the county, and they are going up quite a bit later, thirty percent or something like that so. I will say this. The number of deaths have not gone up dramatically. Yes, a couple of things one people getting it now are getting a weaker version of it. Apparently, it's mutated a little weaker. That could just be temporary, but that's the case right now. Also the drugs it's started with hydroxy chloroquine and see packs, and then there was a elgin ran Israel. They've found so many more drugs that it's The treatment makes it much much much much less severe. When you get it now, the other thing is and the reason the. Deficit aren't going up. So much is especially in Florida and these other places, the people that are getting are much much younger and what they can figure out so far with all the contact tracing is. That when everything opened up the people under thirty, five especially people in their twenties when nuts. Crowding into bars, jamming into people's apartments, running around sleeping with each other all that stuff you're not supposed to do and that's where the outbreak was, so it's in that group. The only good part of that is enough of that they may create some herd immunity, those younger people which will help if it ever were to come back in the fall. So that's the good news New York City still on track to. phase three, which is indoor dining, all that stuff July six. That's a week from Monday next week hard to believe fourth of July already, but then when you come back on that Monday. You'll be able to go into stores malls indoor dining all that stuff Did, you say you eight endorse, or you're still afraid to eat indoors you still. Not only outside only outside. Yeah, I think that's going to be a lot of people. Although I've noticed in Connecticut once they opened the indoor dining, places were packed people. Weren't that worried the problem indoors. You need ventilation. Here's the his his the real deal about how you get infected. Because everybody's worried about somebody coughing sneezing droplets. What if you talked to them too long as he talked droplets coming out of their mouth, you need about a thousand droplets. To get infected every time somebody talks about thirty to forty droplets come out of their mouth, so you have to do a lot of talking to get thousand droplets, and when I say thirty or forty come out of their mouth, half of them hit the ground. A lot of them are dispersed outside and wind UV light. wipes them out. So you really even just talking? It'd be hard to get it to get the full thousand particles you'd need if ventilation is important, the worst places that car still about when you're in a car, you're in a cab. You're in a new WBUR that. That tough I mean roll down the windows, the more ventilation, the better. If for any reason, you gotTa have somebody in your house and Workman of somebody fixing something Best advice they give is after they're done after they leave open the windows in. Don't go in that room for about an hours, and you should be okay We should be okay anyway, but you still look what we've gotta worry about, and you got to wear. A mask is important very important to wear that mask all the time Did you see that The latest Karen is? There's no video of it. This Karen went into starbucks without a mask, and the Barista's told her I can't serve you without a mask and she went nuts. She took his picture. She somehow found out his full name. She posted it on twitter instagram. whatever his name is Jason. so-and-so wouldn't serve me next time. I'm coming back with the police. And my doctor's note from my medical exemption from. So this Karen put Jason's full name and the people were able to locate him, and somebody started a gofundme page for this kid. And this Kid's got twenty one thousand dollars in tips from the GOFUNDME page for these. These Karen's have got. Stop it anyway. We got lots to get to president trump now. You're going to be reading all weekend on the Sunday shows. You're going to be hearing about how he's finished. That's it. There's no chance he can't win. He's down in the polls. By NASA, fifteen point lead one hundred point lead thousand point lead. There's no way he can win. He's on the ropes James Carville this morning on television. Yes, absolutely, no chance. Yeah Peggy Noonan Com where it went south for him where he lost it all now. Couple of things to remember one is using all these fake polls totally rigged fake polls Peggy Noonan even quoting the Sienna College poll. This is an amateur student. the rigging is in the metrics. They don't put enough Republicans in the sample. The automatically waited, so it's twelve twelve point loss for trump just in the metrics. Twenty four percent Republicans, instead of thirty six percent where they should be, and then they don't do likely voters like if CNN college, but the poll in the Faculty Lounge with a bunch of liberals and call them adults, not likely voters, so that's how they rigged, and then they'll slam the questions. So don't don't go by these. He also remember something else at this exact point. Michael Dukakis was ahead by seventeen points ahead of Bush. Don't remember a President Dukakis, do you? The other thing and I remember I pointing this out in two thousand sixteen four years ago at this time. Whenever you think he's on the ropes. If you have him on the ropes that purred that phrase. This is on the ropes. He's on the rookes. You Donald Trump on the ropes. And Joe Body. You'll probably remember me saying this. That's when you're in real trouble. That is when he roaring back. That is member. Rocky was losing the fight. And the guy just let them have it right in the face and it woke rocky up. And, then he won so when he's on the ropes. You're in real trouble. We can go back. Go back to the billy Bush tape whenever you got him on the ropes. He's finished now. You notice when trump used to hands to pick up the glass. This dissect dissect it in the news for three days. Medical experts, every clearly has Parkinson's. Then ask! How does he think those twenty-foot straight putz if he has Parkinson's. And it's always hit the middle of the fairway with Parkinson's pretty good trick so. They go crazy analyzing his medical possible problems. Joe Biden yesterday didn't know where the hell he was. Did you see that zoom video? He did with Obama. where? They played. They recorded questions. People send in videos of questions and say play the video of people asking questions and wonder woman asked tonight's question. No matter how many times they told by, he couldn't understand these videos. They're not there so after they played the question, he said now. What do you do for a living? Whispering in his ear, it's not live. She's not there and you see Obama Obama is on the call. You see him rolling his eyes. And then the next one A question and Biden says You said you were a nurse. Is that correct? Is Again. He just couldn't grasp this. You know it's a zoom thing and you see them talking so he assumes they're there. He can't figure out this is recorded. You, saw the one yesterday where he talking about how one hundred twenty million people died of corona virus in this country, hundred and twenty million. And as president trump tweeted out if he said that. Can you imagine how much coverage that would get? So why doesn't? Listen to my Mexican white. It's just totally slanted news coverage the Democrat own the news media. The news media is an arm of the. It's the. Public Relations Department of the DNC so they never go after Biden for all of these gaffes. You remember when McCain was running in two thousand eight. The same news media did thousands of stories about McCain was too old. He was too feeble. He was too old to be running for president. You remember that sure yeah, of course Reagan. Even the as Reagan was still in office all these articles clearly as Alzheimer's, he's not there. He's something's wrong with them. nonstop, but when it's a Democrat forget it no coverage whatsoever so A. Lot of people are now predicting. People behind the scenes. Who might know about this concept? There will be no debate, so we know presidential debates I. Know Biden's agreed to three. But they'll figure out a way to pull out of it, they'll just refuse to do. The debates say it's not safe. We'll do it. with a zoom. Call them debate where they can hold up cue cards for Biden. Every. Card every possible question will have a card with the answer. You won't see it because they'll be running the zoom call from the basement there. Whatever the question is. Hold up the card and he'll just read it. So, look for no live debates. They've already pretty much canceled the Democratic convention. They'll do something in the got the auditorium there well, actually was a big arena. They've canceled that and moving to a small venue and it'll just. We'll by nationally go there. I, feel probably do zoom address. To this little. It's going to be a little group. The reason you put the convention someplace the reason they chose Wisconsin you always pick a state. You WanNa win, and you put your convention there and the State is very grateful. Because when you put your convention. Their ten thousand people come to town. They take every hotel room. They fill every restaurant and restore. The state ends up making millions off the convention. It's a great favor, but now with this virtual thing they're gonNA do. It's like four. It guys are going to check into a Holiday Inn, and they're just there to set up zoom thing. And those guys don't. So you, you're not gonNA make a big profit off this convention now Joe Bartlett. Can you explain what is mayor? De blasio thinking. He's GonNa Paint. Black lives matter right in front of trump tower. What the Hell is wrong with this guy? Trivial Petty? What does he think? The president needs to understand what this is all about? That's the best place for that I, I don't look it he. He looks for these moments to get us publicity, and then he goes back to sleep. I know he's just a bungling Klutz. He can't think one day ahead. He's the most short term. Maybe it's whatever he's using right now. It's just clouds his brain. he's GonNa. Put that in front of trump tower then two months from now. He's going to beg for a billion dollar bailout from the president. He's GonNa ask the president of bail amount for billions. So with this black lives matter in front of trump tower recent. I'm sending a message. Yeah, wait two months to beg for your bail out. You're probably going to get a message back from that. You Moron. Think this through. Think think think what you're doing. and. A congratulations Dermott Shea. The police chemistry finally said something listen to the poor guys in a hostage situation right now, but what were the exact words were the justice system? Here is imploding imploding. Imploding it's ridiculous it just letting prisoners out just letting him out just opening the door. You know there's guys in prison plotting escapes. This is what they do. Come up with these plans how to escape from prison. These guys got whole business wiped out by the BLASI. Who Needs? This guy is just to let you out, so they're letting people out there. handcuffing the COPS, not the criminals. And it's absolutely ridiculous. Crime is just spiraling out of Control New York. City is out of control. Listen to Blasios clearly as the worst mayor ever beyond any thing we imagined, but you gotta blame Andrew Cuomo for this or don't forget to blame. Andrew Cuomo responsible for this I listen I know. He's not the mayor of new. York but it's in his state. Crime is spiraling out of control as people flee. New York. That's GONNA. Kill the tax base of New York state and it's up to Cuomo to step in. Send in the National Guard do whatever you have to do, but he's going to end up. Getting the blame for this to nationally, so they're trying to figure out some police reform. That's a good thing. If you want to figure out what changes you need to make in the system in Washington DC they're thinking of banning chokehold thinking of doing this and doing that, but if you wanted real clever, brilliant reform, WanNa problem solved. You really look to Schumer and Pelosi and these bumbling idiots not mention these Republicans McConnell these guys. They don't look like they're going to really solve anything, do they? They never do. You're a donor you need. A regulation lifted These guys could be helpful, but you need some real thinking and reform. These are not the guys to turn to, and they just play games. They said the Republican bills. No good at didn't ban choke holds. Well, actually that's not true. The Tim Scott Bill and he's been working on this for years. It band funding. It removed funding from any police department that still used the chokehold, and that's probably the more effective way. because you, you can withhold the funding and forces the police department and make the changes. If you just tried to ban it I. Don't know that that ban would hold up in every department. You don't need a chokehold. Do you? I mean? Why would you need that? made the president said if the officers life is in danger, he can use it. Yeah I've say there's a million other things that the chokehold specifically I mean how many Joe Pesci Deniro use a chokehold. You never see that there's other ways you don't need. Well I think you know for police officers way to take a guy down as again them around the head and bring him down. You know it's Liam on the legs. Now, that's true. You get show called. You'll get something else but listen. You GotTa fix this. It's it's about who's in the department is still a few bad apples in there. You want to read them at the best thing to do is put together a get the smartest Ray Kelly type police brains together in a room with the smartest community represented and you figure out stuff. It's not if you're looking at Schumer and Pelosi to come up with ideas forget. Not Going to happen if you look at the Mayor de Blasio for ideas, I mean everything with him. Is just knee jerk, petty trivial nonsense. Paint this on the street problem so anyway. Check out the webpage. There's a lot of good stuff up there now. The problem is the protesting. The may have a good point. They may have things are fighting for, but your movement got overtaken by all these what Bill Maher calls these woke white liberals. They can destroy anything with their ridiculousness. Watch this video. This is Bill Maher on how ridiculous woke. White Liberals are. Also. Hey, you know. Morgan Freeman. He's a brilliant guy. Watches video where he talks about racism and then now watch this. This is one of those Protesters screaming at the it's an Asian cop. Two women. What's the protesters scream at the Asian cop? Watch how the ASIAN COP HANDLES! It just stares her down. It's really something to watch. It's all up in the web page. Go to seven and W. O. R. Dot Com Slash Mark Seven ten W.. O. R. DOT COM SLASH MARK. Mark Simone Seven Ten W. Well let's take some calls eight hundred Forgot the number. Well, you know the number What is the number again? Eight hundred I'm Joe Biden Him. Three to one. Zero seven one, eight, hundred, three to one, zero, seven ten see normally in the studio. It's written right in front of me, but home right now. Let us go to Michael in Brooklyn Michael How you doing? Mark morning how you doing? Where we'll this polling. We're talking about all this polling. You know I've never been pulled before my life, but you know if I'll look who's going to call you. Listen to the left has made it so You Know A. So bad if you say that you support trump that if I was told I, don't know that I would admit that I would support from. And how many people could you see? You admit you're a liar. No wonder they don't call you. Well all series in all seriousness. How many people? Are saying. Well okay, that's that's another factor. That's a good point, actually thanks for calling yeah. When they say the fake polls and again I hate to keep repeating this. The rigging of the polls is they put way too few Republicans in the sample twelve percent less Republicans than they're supposed to us. They don't do likely voters. They pick their own group of people, usually a bunch of trump aiding liberal, so use that as the sample and there is some people that think that even when you do get to legitimate people, nobody wants to tell a stranger on the phone for trump, because and that is a point. You know you got to remember when you get this call from the pollster yet. I assume it's supposed to be. You don't really know so. Trump doesn't pull very well, but because of this you can always in any poll I hate to say even the Fox News pulse same thing it's not that they rig, and if they're using these polling companies that Riggott, so whenever you see a trump poll, automatically add twelve points for trump just to get rid of the rigging, and you can probably now maybe even at fifteen. Let's go to Andy and Staten Island Andy How you doing? So? Yes. What happened to me? Just I miss of. Readers this great I saw him last Saturday night. He was in California all winter. He's back in New York. He's doing fine taking it easy this summer and the other questions Andy. Now because I haven't seen that much. Style, Rick, Lewis fast. Oh you know he was. Some being interviewed on Oh. It was you what it was. They brought back. Who wants to be a millionaire? And they had him on on the opening. Show there. Thanks for calling. Let's go to Dave in Chicago Dave how you doing. Very well Mark Good Morning Mark. I wanted to comment about Joe Biden, but before I do if I could sneak this in real quickly. Olympus is leaving the camera market. They started making cameras in nineteen, thirty two and they're getting out after three years of losing money, but they're all night and cannon, the greatest to camera makers of all the new iphones. That picture is so incredibly sharp, a lot less people using cameras, nowadays you of unless Real Professional. You don't need a Nikon or Canon anymore. But what was the other point day. Thank you Joe Biden? In your opinion he hasn't selected vice president yet. It's practically July no real platform, no campaigning. Do you think that this is the worst campaign in Presidential History? For the people yes, for the Democratic voters. Yes, that's a good point Dave. Thanks for calling. It's a good point worst candidate for the Democratic voters for the people that actually control the Democratic Party for the puppet masters. Best candidate ever. To argue with the candidate you gotTA. Tell the candidate ask the candidate this time. They got a just a vegetable wheelchair They just roll them around. It's a weekend at Bernie's situation. It is perfect for the puppet masters. That's why they wanna get him elected. Get him elected. Donald Trump, said it, and he's absolutely right. The get him elected the stick them in a nursing home and they'll run the country. It'll be Barack Obama and all the people that run the democratic world. There's a lot of George Soros type of guys. A lot of new breed of those guys run the country and. If! You're a democratic voter. If you're a liberal, don't worry. They don't have your best interest in heart. They're not. They're not sitting there worried about what you need. It's all about what they need. This is not going to be good for the country. Let's go to Joe in Norwalk Connecticut how you doing Joe, The morning market got two quick points guessing the Democratic Democrats are doing to themselves again i. mean with all these fake polls. Showing that finds running away with it. Being Notch there naturally lazy, and they're going to be complacent yet again and sure enough. The people with euthusiasm on the trump side so once again. They're GONNA go It's GonNa. Be Election Day. You know, he's GonNa by ten points twenty. Show up, so yeah, you're absolutely right, it's. A good point they end up suppressing their own vote vast some top democratic some of those puppet message when you do these fake polls for, but they're answer off the record is it helps fundraising if you go out and try to fundraise for a loser can't get any money, but if it looks like wow, this guy's really going to win. Those big donors start contributing because they think at this guy's GonNa. Be President I better be on the record as having given him a lot of money, so that's the other point you wanted to make. The other point is we need to generalize the election strategy because we have footage of Democrats, cities getting destroy Democrat politician siding with the destroyers, the rioters if we generalize, this is good versus bad. I think it opens up not only. And that's the whole campaign that's. All Right Joe. Thanks for calling. That's the whole campaign. That's president. Trump is already said it. Vote for jobs, not mobs. That's that's the whole campaign. Democrats just not thinking this through their chess game is awful here. You're going to end up in the fall with a candidate whose brain dead who can't talk and He's going to have more baggage in Paris Hilton. How does he defend burning buildings? Looting rioting no police de fund the defunding police. That's a winning strategy, the heartland of America good luck with that. Hey, when we come back, we'll talk to Roger Friedman the entertainment reporter. You won't believe what stores are closing. And wins Broadway coming back and they're going to be anything. The summer concerts movies and we'll get to all of that coming up on seven ten W. O.. R., let's get the latest news. Here's Joe Bartlett. You're listening to the mark Simone. Show Shelvin Ten W. O. R.. Hey. This wonderful website called Showbiz. Four one one dot com got great stories entertainment news the the excellent reporter Roger Friedman. He's the guy behind it Roger. Friedman show Biz entertainment reporter how you doing. I'm okay. Mark Good Morning I'm driving on I ninety five. I can tell you it's like the Autobahn. I'll I cannot picture you a real city slicker driving a car. Everybody Watch out on ninety five. I'm a good driver. I'm actually going south to Come up city. Drug deal or something going on there. What's going? On. My Co op city business. You have yours and. Stays in coop city. Okay Hey! You add some dry. Great stuff up there so is this true Microsoft is closing? Stores getting out of the retail business. Out of the retail does and it's. This is a big deal. You know I love that Microsoft. Thorough two thousand there and it's all gone. They're not coming back and I think you're gonNA. See this a lot I. Think Apple going to be next? Because? You know with his hand damage. You cannot have hundreds of strangers pouring into your store, touching everything there'd be no way to clean it all the time and They're just not gonNA happen. So this whole idea of communal shopping I think it's GonNa. Go by the wayside. Well first of all pandemic of the over at some point, you don't want to react to soon by next year. Probably be fine, but then why not leave the Microsoft Stores Open? Since there's never anybody in them, you're perfectly safe there. They're always empty. No you play people on there and I like to go in there. You know I like to go into test them out and I have a surface pro six. That I really like I. I carry it around and. Now but I think we're GONNA. See The big change going to retail and also if you look around New, York. In Manhattan but I. I've been in the city this week and you see a lot of places or up. Don't look like they're being on board. But. The apple store has had a line all week long. You have to go and buy appointment, but the line is like twenty five people in front of the apple store everyday. Well not going to go on forever. We'll people. WanNa do. To all the time. I. Don't know, but this'll all end at some point I. I can see the Microsoft stores going but apple. Those stores will always always be. Warner, runners just being there movie. from July third tenant they're. They're big movies movie from July thirty first to August twelfth, because they can't get the teeter change over. and. That might that might even still be a little early August of even if they're open, I don't really go sit in the movie I. Still wouldn't Miss It in the movie theater. I, you know I I don't know how people are listening and how they would react to this, but you know in New York now. You know we can eat outside right? Yeah, go outside. And I've called people the other night we did have is your friend Nora lawler. Great Media? And we went out to dinner with about five people. On a side street now they're very nice. Down on Tenth Street does beautiful Italian. Restaurant call the Stereo fifty seven, and it feels like being in Europe, but a lot of people have called to say. Do you WanNa meet for a coffee or whatever and they say? Oh, no, I'm not that and I don't think people talk. About. They don't WANNA go out! You know. I. moved to go outside and at lunch or dinner. It depends, you someplace as you see, there's some people just aren't going to be careful for a which which is okay to what about the concerts here? Everything's GonNa try these drive in concerts all summer. They'll. Put a stage in the parking lot and try. That is GONNA work. I don't know I. Mean I I I would love to go to some kind of concert so I don't care how they. maybe they could hang from balloons or something. Like what do you? What do you hear about Broadway? That's not till next year. now the study now. Shows coming back and shows opening, so what we're getting is. that it seems like it'll be March and. Arch. I think you're GONNA. See maybe a couple. Shows will open in January like the older shows like Phantom of the opera. Hamilton. We may see them in January but. some of this new shows that we're just about to open rate before the pandemic took cold of us. Are Starting to announce opening dates, and they're gonNA. Start Pre used in mid March and April one show. has decided to skip. The were ability in. Years like this year. We didn't have talk. That next year we will have the Tony Awards. And the music man with huge Akron decided to skip the Johnny ords completely and just open in May so they're taking no chances. They're not gonNA start prejudice April. What about these these? People getting so politically correct the dixie chicks lady Antebellum, changing their names and the dixie chicks really need to change the name. Of the age where we're thinking. Please don't fiery. Jesse is fi I wrote a joke about whistling Dixie the other day. And I was reading. We don't really know anything about Dixie in the north. This is like something it doesn't exist. So, I was reading comments online the other day. for people from the south. Who hate the word dignity. I don't want to be associated with it never. Did you know there's a whole? It's honey though the communication that we have among us with the Internet and everything else whole the discourse on talk radio. Talk Show td on CNN. To Talk. Nobody talks about this. And in the south. People have been very different view of everything to do with the confederacy and Dixie. Hate it and they're happy to let it go. They're happy to let the STAR spangled banner. Go I didn't realize that the star spangled banner was so hated in so many parts of the country. You know taking it for granted all the time. So it may me that it's GonNa be a change in Asian and we're GONNA. Lose these statues song. The people are going to change the name and we're GonNa have to you know certain generations like you and me? We're used to the we're going. have to give it up. We're going to have to have no, it's. It's a little Isis Taliban tearing down. Statues I mean that's what they do. That's what. Soviet take over the. Part of it as I say like the songs or whatever I say, our hearts go banner I go look. People didn't know what they were doing when they did it. They didn't know how judge later, so we gotta let it go and just. His. That's part of our history, but then you find that a lot of people who you wouldn't extent, conservative people will tell you that they've always hated. These things and wish they were gone is. Well, why didn't you tell us a long time ago? No one word about it and I think you're GonNa see the Star spangled banner. Get kicked to the curb. Running. Roger Friedman how does Howard Stern? Stay on the air. We've uncovered. Videos the N. Word and the black face, the most racist of ever thousands of them. How does he stay on the air then? Sirius radio so invested millions and billions of dollars our. That they can't get rid of him. All they can do is tone down. I heard. He's on vacation right now. That's right. Yeah and Jimmy Kimmel is GONNA vanish for three months because a lot of spent stuff from him is come out. But taking everyone's getting a time out. To come back and better form but I will say Howard. Stern has I've been listening. Sorry his his old stuff on. Show and it's very funny. Yeah. But yeah, it's an interesting time. We're GONNA see. A lot of changes in attitudes through things where you and I are going to say Oh, that's ridiculous, so what if? You're I think you're GONNA see top dollar movements toward changing a lot of things. What about Dixie Cups, we're? GonNa have to call them something else. What about the New York Yankees? We can't say Yankees anymore. So Yankees can't say anything. Well, you really have. The redskins have to change their name. To have? And I think that will happen now. Because there's no way they can get away with it anymore. You know I would say. They got as far as they could, but that's it. what? Do. You think I knew national anthem to remark. Well knowing you, it'll be a drifter song, but. It'll be a four seasons. Should. There's a good I'd say. We're out of time, but everybody should check. Roger Friedman's website is new stories everyday Showbiz, four one one dot COM showbiz, four one one dot com. Roger Friedman thanks for being with us. You have a great week that. I take care also every check out the web page a lot of stuff up there now. Here's the problem you get these ridiculous. What Bill Markazi Woke White Liberals. Hijacking the Movement Watch this Bill Maher Video. He's very funny talking about how silly they can be. You know who's brilliant is Morgan. Freeman watch him. Discuss racism, and here's what's this is a great confrontation. Two females one protest, one cop watch. The protesters scream at this Asian Cup right her face and watch how the COP handles. It's all up on the web page. Go to seven ten W. O. R., DOT COM slash mark. Ten W. O. R. DOT COM slash mark.

president Joe Biden Donald Trump New York City trump tower Roger Friedman Joe Bartlett TA Bill Maher mark Simone Mayor de Blasio Michael Dukakis Morgan Freeman Barack Obama CNN COP Karen WBUR Connecticut
Historian Robert Caro On Power And Why He Still Writes Longhand

1A

34:01 min | 2 years ago

Historian Robert Caro On Power And Why He Still Writes Longhand

"This episode is sponsored by the Federal Communications Commission with a message for everyone using TV antenna to watch local channels plants or rescan as TV broadcast frequencies change. For more information, go to FCC dot gov slash TV rescan. This is one eight I'm Todd's willington, Washington. Just rejoice in is on assignment in the Senate chamber on Capitol Hill here in Washington in the gallery. Overlooking the Senate floor there's a place just for journalists who report on the Senate every day. It's where they go to watch the big history-making moments. The votes that send us to war or a healthcare law on a desk above where the Senator stand. There's a book that sits like a fixture. It's a permanent reference for understanding what's really going on below. It's a biography. It's the story of Lyndon Johnson. And how he used power to bend. The Senate to his will and become the greatest majority leader in history. Master of the Senate a poet surprise in two thousand three for its author. Robert Caro in eleven hundred pages Carro uses president Johnson to explore how power creates how it's used and the impact of that power on the everyday lives of Americans. It's one installment in the series, the years of Lyndon Johnson and CARA was already a Pulitzer prize winner for his thirteen hundred page nineteen seventy four biography about New York infrastructure mogul, Robert Moses, it's called the powerbroker cowers fans. Now eagerly await the last installment of the Johnson books all about the presidential years, the sixties civil rights and Vietnam. In the meantime, Robert Caro is out with the new much shorter book, it's called working, and it's all about the interviews the discipline, and the method that have helped Robert Caro enthrall his fans for decades Robert Carroll joins me now from NPR in New York. Mr. Carol, welcome to one A nice to be here. Very nice to have you, sir. I know that people constantly ask you when the final LBJ book is going to be finished. And and I promise you're going to be spared that here, I'm not going to ask you that give you a break from that perennial question. Even though you never give your sources of break from your perennial questions. That's okay. The years of Lyndon Johnson have been a forty year plus project for you. And Robert Moses many years before that when you were a young reporter. There are lots of people with real power in this society. What drew you to these two powerful men? Well, I was a young journalist that was a political reporter. And I got interested in Robert Moses, I started to realize we live in a democracy. So we think that power comes from being elected from votes at the ballot box. But here was ago. I Robert Moses who had never been elected to anything, and he had more power than anyone who was elected more power than any mayor more than any governor more. More than any mayor and governor put together and he had held his power for forty four years. And with it. He shaped New York all the highways, the modern bridges the parks. And I said, I don't understand I'm supposed to be writing about political power. But I have no idea where he got this power. And I realized knowing that that anybody else, and I realized I'd have to write a book to try to find out what it was because I didn't understand what it was. And to explain it a a similar impulse for Lyndon Johnson. Well, by you know, way, similar so the powerbroker you could say is about urban power power and cities, then I wanted to do national power. And I learned I hoped with the powerbroker that if you pick the right man, you could show a lot about political power through his life. And I knew I wanted to do national power next. I knew I wanted to do it through Lyndon Johnson because I felt his life. He understood national power. I felt I could do a lot through his life. You mentioned those early days as a young reporter, a young political reporter when you looked up from your daily deadlines in your daily stories and realized wait power is important, and and wide is this unelected man have so much of it. You got your start as a beat reporter at Newsday on Long Island to take me. Take me back. If you can't how do you remember those days in the clattering Tele types in the grumpy editors in the newsroom. You know, I love being reporter. Then as you say the newsroom was full of, you know, shouting back and forth. I work nights for awhile. I think by hours were seven thirty at night til three thirty in the morning. And if you look around the room about three o'clock, you sure everybody with a headset so on and you knew they were making dates for when they got off at three thirty. You could tell who is dating who by who is torturing on a headset in who who is listening. But I had an editor who is like an old glass out of the front page days in Chicago, a tough old guy named Alan Hatheway. I had never done any kind of investigative work in through a real accident. The meaning everyone else who's on the Newsday picnic on fire island no-one could get them on the telephone. Because this was guess about nineteen sixty six sixty seven no one had cell phones. And a tip came in on a very important story. We are working on they couldn't get any of the regular investigative reporters. So finally, the editor said to me you'll have to go down and do it. It was looking through files secret files that were suddenly being made available to us at the Federal Aviation agency at Idyllwild airport late at Kennedy airport, and I went down. I just loved it. But I didn't know that. I knew what I was doing. I wrote a long memo for so that the real reporters who came in later could write the story and the next day the this old guy secretary he was managing editor calls and says Alan wants to his name was Alan Hatheway. She says Alan wants to see you right away. I said to my wife. I I'm glad we didn't move about to be fired. And I went in there, and he was reading my memo, and he looks up at me. And he says, I didn't know someone from Princeton could do digging like this from now on you do investigative work. Todd with my usual southwe fair times. Like, I said, but I don't know anything about investigative work. And I remember he looked up at me for a very long time. And he said just remember one thing to run every page. Never assume anything turn every gun, Dan page. And I think I've carried that advice in my head of a sense. You get a byline on that story on the FM. You ask the right question. No, I didn't. Do you? Remember who did? No. Well, I. At the two reporters who were covering most of this will Bob Greene in on Brophy. But I don't know who supply line was on the snow. They probably oh, you a bigger debt than maybe even they would acknowledge in their later years. I wonder since they were at the company picnic, and and you for the first time turned every page that was advice. And you you write about this in the book that that was advice that his stuck with you throughout your entire career. Turn every page assume nothing always get the next interview. Read the next document. Let's take a brief breath. And we'll come right back more with Robert Caro right after this and on Robert Caro's career of doing work that he says had to make a difference. Stay with one AM Todd's. Woah. See my sentiment cloud. Always J never down. On a New York. Support for this podcast and the following message. Come from ADT, America's trusted home security provider, providing secure smart homes, custom designed with everything from video doorbells indoor and outdoor cameras smart locks and lights and professionally monitored carbon monoxide and smoke detectors. All controlled by the sound of your voice or on the go with the ADT go app. Learn more at ADT dot com. Hey, it's a fear Eisenberg host of NPR's asked me another. And I'm here to let you know that every Friday in April, we're bringing you an episode that spotlights women in comedy, you'll hear from Reta the starve NBC's parks recreation, and I'll talk to Russian doll actor grittily and co-creator, Leslie Hedlund and many more. Listen now. Welcome back to one A. It's Todd's willik infra Joshua Johnson. I'm speaking with poetry prize winning biographer, Robert Caro, who's covered the power behind politics and the research and interviewing skills that you need to write about it. In the way that he does a Robert carry your books on LBJ focus on the span of his life. But they also focus heavily on the culture around him. Because of the people that were affected by his power America in the nineteen fifties and the nineteen sixties in your short memoir. Shortish memoir working you say that there are a couple of songs that really exemplify this period for you. And here's one of them is a song that I I know you'll recognize and almost all of our listeners will as well. We shall overcome the famous spiritual and protest song not just from the sixties. But but from long long before especially among American black people in Negros protesting their conditions in America. A lot of Americans know this song Robert CARA, why is it so important to you and the stories that you've told him, and you continue to tell you know, when Lyndon Johnson picks up the banner of the civil rights movement. A decides to pay us Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty four and the Voting Rights Act of nineteen sixty five that was the song that they was singing in the streets in nineteen March nineteen sixty five they're singing it and sell morale Bama where the police violence against the marches the dog sick on them. The deputy sheriff's with their bull whips ROY getting into the marches us. Their whips and Lyndon Johnson is going to give this speech to congress. And they the civil rights leaders have always wanted in their hearts how much he was with him in this speech. He says it's not just them who we who negroes who used the wording is not just negroes who must overcome. We must overcome. We must overcome our prejudice. We must pay us this lower. And he said, and we shall overcome. He picked up the words that aunt of the anthem of the civil rights movement. Very interesting Martin Luther King was listening to the speech in the living room of one of his supporters down in Selma. And wouldn't Johnson says himself we shall overcome his aides turn around to look at Dr king, and he's crying. Then it's the only time they ever saw Martin Luther King cry. So you said there are two songs which symbolize the sixties to me. That's. Part of the glorious things Lyndon Johnson does but there's another song waist deep in the big muddy. It's about Viet nam waist deep in the big muddy. And the big full says the push on waist-deep hip deep. And the big full says the push on. So the other half of Lyndon Johnson story in the nineteen not that you can make it half and half is Vietnamese and how he got how he led this country into a war and the jungles of Asia. I mean, think of it he sent almost six hundred thousand men over there, we dropped more bombs on Vietnam than we dropped on Germany and World War Two. So the two sides a bright a dog soy to Johnson's presidency. And the fool says push on in that song. That is Lyndon Johnson the fool in the decisions that would ultimately undo his presidency and the subject of of what you're working on. Now, I I'd like to go back to that scene. You just set though, we shall overcome where protesters are outside the White House. They're sending it as Johnson goes up to the hill in the limo set the scene. No inside the limo. Because you talk about turning every page, maybe not on. Paper, but turn every page with the people who are talking to you to give witness to the power and the work of Lyndon Johnson. Because you went inside the limousine that night on the way to make that speech. We shall overcome. Well, I I went and saw Todd j yes, good question. You really read by books carefully. I have sir. So so Johnson is sitting in the backseat of the limousine with loose leaf notebook with the speech open on his lap going through in the opposite him off his three speechwriters Horace Busby. Richard goodwin. Jack valenti. So I talked to all three of them Goodwin. And Busby at length, and I would say to them. What did you see a what did you hear that? Right at first, they say, nothing, you know. But finally Busby said, you know, we'll there was one thing as or car turns out of the gates of the White House onto Pennsylvania Avenue to drive up to Capitol Hill, the protest is right there, Pennsylvania Avenue was not at all closed off. They come right up to the fence next to the White House, and they are singing right into the car. We shall overcome. And they're saying the chanting. Hey, hey, LBJ, just you wait till sixty eight to show him that they think he's lots supporting the civil rights movement enough. And I said to Busby was what was Johnson's reaction. And he said he never looked up from turning the pages of his loose leaf notebook. Never once. But Busby really knew Johnson. And I said, but did he hear them? And Busby said he heard he gives this speech. The core comes back and Busby said, you know, when we turned back into the White House, the pickets were all gone. Johnson shut shut them all up. Yes. I mean, it was one of the you know to me Todd. There are great moments in Linden Johnson's memorable moments memorable to me anyway. And I hope I make people see why I think they're memorable in Johnson's presidency. This was a shining moment of the man who all his life had seek had wanted to help poor people and particularly poor people of color when all the way back to win. He's very poor boy has to drop out of college between a sophomore junior years to make enough money to go on and teaches in what they called the Mexican school Mexican American school, but they called the Mexican school down in a little town called ca- Tula in Texas, and I wrote about that time no teacher had of cared of these. Children learn to not this teacher cared. So when he's writing this. We shall overcome speech thirty years letter later dick Goodwin says to him. Did you really mean? Do you real good ones? Helping right. He says you really mean it or basic basically asking or is this just a polit- for a political reason Johnson's listen when I was teaching down there. I swore that if I ever had the power to help these kids I would use it. Now, I have the power, and I mean to use people have debated in. We'll continue to to debate the dichotomy of Lyndon Johnson. The man from the south the friend of southern racists who used racist language himself and also his drive his insistence on helping poor people unfortunate people people of color who were downtrodden because of no fault of their own. But to take get at his motivation for that latter part maybe for. Of those sides of Lyndon Johnson. You did more than than turn the page to get it. Why he was like this people need to understand that you picked up and took your wife, Ana the two of you, and you moved to Linden Johnson's backyard. You move to the to the dirt poor Texas hill country. Yes. Because I I realized we weren't understanding that country weren't understanding the people and therefore I didn't understand Lyndon Johnson. So I said to China, you know, we're going to have to move there and live there to this very isolated. You know, part of America. I said why can't you do a biography of Napoleon? Well, he moved to France in that case, but you might not get very far Robert Caro, you said from your early years as a beat reporter on Long Island and through your work as a biographer that it was important to you in the young case to work at a paper. Not just that covered the news, but a paper that was fighting for something that had that took sides and had something to say about a cause a why was that important to you as a as a young person, I guess for a lot of young people it is. But it's not an impulse that sticks with everyone as they pursued their careers has it has it stuck with you. Oh, I don't. I don't know. And I've also taught I don't I suppose I do feel that way. I try to make my books. I mean, I discovered you know, I don't know what you learn as you go along. But I realized as I went along doing the powerbroker that if I wanted to write books about political power in America the way I wanted the books to be I would have to write not only about the powerful the people who wielded the power, but about the power less to people on whom the power was wielded to show. What government would go political power can do to people both for good and frill? We've been hearing from one listeners who want the chance to ask you a quick question or two Robert Carro. Susan Email to ask how shocking was Johnson's loss to Kennedy at Susan's talking about the democratic convention in nineteen sixty when Johnson was originally vying for. The democratic nomination. He wouldn't have his moment. Then was it. A lesson learned for him. I don't know if it was a lesson learned, but it was certainly a shock. You know, I in the nineteen fifties Lyndon Johnson was the most powerful democrat in the country. Dried Eisenhower was president. Of course. He was Senate majority leader he was a figure of immense power. I mean, it's not Eisenhower's civil rights. Spill that's a than its Linden Johnson's civil rights. Spill they were to send it was writing under him its own legislation. So he thinks and Jack Kennedy is just a freshman. Senator who's really not doing much in the Senate at all Johnson has absolute contempt for him. He used to say about Kennedy. You know, he's such a lousy Senator. He doesn't even know how to address the chair, you know, used to talk about how sickly he was yellow all the time from in fact, the Addison's disease he thinks he's got it wrapped up Kennedy is going around the country with his amazing charm and his idealism. And taking the states away from Johnson without Johnson realizing what's happening until it's too late, and you can go behind the scenes in master of the Senate since you brought it up the the shuttle diplomacy in the hotels, Robert Kennedy himself up in down. The back stairs, Jack Kennedy negotiating with LBJ. When Robert doesn't know because Robert doesn't want Johnson on the ticket. They were lifelong enemies in. This was only the mid point of their animosity, I suppose, well, one of the, you know, the hatred and hatred is a word, you know, as biographer you're you don't like to use because it's such a loaded term. And it sounds so rated, but I decided after learning about it hearing about it for a long time that hatred was the right word to describe the relationship between Lyndon Johnson and Robert Kennedy, and it came from both directions. You make clear in your books that how capable of hatred real. Hatred. Lyndon Johnson was he had I would say an equal partner in. This regard. Bobby Kennedy was was a hater too. And he hated Lyndon Johnson. He just well, he despised Johnson. He I and distorted that you tell which was in my last book the passage of power where Jack Kennedy has put Johnson he's about to nominate him that evening at the convention for his vice president while he's taking a nap during the afternoon, Bobby Kennedy comes down the back stairs of this hotel to Johnson sweet three times to try to get him to withdraw from the ticket Johnson's thought that was the most humiliating moment of his life. He never he never forgot that afternoon, and he never forgive. And you said he he never did forgive. Once you crossed him a figure of that. That was the moment between them and. Many subsequent moments where the Kennedys marginalized and embarrassed Lyndon Johnson once he was vice president not not like a Dick Cheney not like vice president of today, spite his skills, and and being one of the most formidable politicians in modern American history. You put your finger on taught that's a great way of summit up. You know, he was the greatest legislative the greatest majority leader in American history. The Kennedys won't even ask him four or in many cases, allow him to give advice on how to get these bills through when Kennedy puts his civil rights Bill before congress Johnson has to plead. Can I have fifteen minutes alone with him? And as I recall, it just I don't think he ever gets those fifteen minutes, certainly Kennedy. Never listen to anything you had to say on this Bill fascinating fascinating bunch of events. And and you detail in the book as well before we take a quick break here. Robert Caro, how Lyndon Johnson. Fortunes changed drastically tragically with the assassination of Robert F Kennedy one of my favorite scenes in your book. The passage of power is when a dejected depressed self pitying, really Lyndon Johnson is really at the low point of his vice presidency tragedy strikes the United States when Jack Kennedy is murdered in Dallas. And the transformation of a switch flips in the mind and the actions of Lyndon Johnson, you those who were in the room with him at parkland hospital saw him transformed from dejected self pitying. Loser into a powerful directing take charge president of the United States. It's a fascinating seeing that only somebody who interviewed people in the room over and over could. No, but my conversation with journalist and historian Robert Caro continues in just a moment. This is one A sticklers. Gods and the son that is rising. We'll go down on that. Support for NPR and the following message come from VS p individual vision plans offering coverage for a low monthly cost. If you don't have vision coverage through an employer, you'll get access to the nation's largest network of independent doctors and hundreds of name-brand frames. Plus you can save more than two hundred dollars a year. VS p believes you deserve to see better for life for less. Discover for yourself at need VS p coverage dot com. Hey, it's guy-roger here. And on the latest episode of how I built this how Alice waters pioneered the farm-to-table movement and revolutionized American cuisine along the way check it out on how I built this from NPR. It's one a I'm Todd your books Robert Carroll are filled with with scenes of people's real lives. Whether it's Sam Johnson, Houston, the brother of the of the president or people who were never known in any other way. The the person whose apartment was raised to make one of Robert Caro's expressways across the Bronx or the farmer who lost his land or the black woman who tried to register to vote during before the dawn of civil rights are while civil rights was raging. It's a constant theme throughout your work. Not just the powerful men in this case at the top. But the lives affected by that power of. That's that's a choice you've made since the beginning. It's cost you a lot of work. And a lot of pages turned and a lot of interviews. I'm sure at times with people who weren't keen to talk of why why this mission why this choice that is that is threaded through all of your work. Well, you know, I I think I said before I didn't I should have not always a conscious decision. You make would certainly you. Don't know it at the beginning, you just learn it or grows on you. As you go along, you don't you don't always know the reason for I remember that a turning point for me was when I was writing about Robert Moses, you know, he built six hundred twenty seven miles of expressways and parkways around New York City, if you drive on an expressway or Parkway in that area whole New York, you're driving on a road built by Robert Moses. So I'm reading every textbook on the building of highways and everyone says many. The phrase the Uman cost of highways. Not one showed what the Uman cost was or even examined in detail. What the human cost was I said, the I know I think I found a way to do this. I'll take one mile of the six hundred twenty seven miles of miles of the crow immoral of the cross Bronx expressway, which he tour right through on a straight line through a dense blocks neighborhood tearing down fifty four apartment houses, he displaced, I think it was fifteen thousand people the whole area turned into this vast slum. And I said I'm going to try to show what happened to that neighborhood. That's not an easy decision to make Todd since you remembering this now, we were broke at the time. I had very had a very small advanced to write the powerbroker. I'm you're not by this time. I wasn't fooling myself about how lowering the book was. Gonna take I said to enrich gonna take six months to do the shafter read all the weekly newspapers from the neighborhood get a picture of what it's like find all these people who live there. They've all moved away. It's hard to track down people sometimes and interview them. But when I interview them, I remember, I mean, some of them will live when they had this community this neighborhood. They really had something they had friends and neighbors even though they were lower middle class people. They had a real nice life. They they liked their life. Now, they were scattered all over some more little apartments like developments like coop city somewhere living with the kids in Westchester some were living in housing projects. I found a lot of them. And when I would interview them, and I would type up the notes my notes on what they said at night the word that was in almost all the interviews over and over. Again was lonely, and I thought Moses could have put this highway in a road. Exactly, two blocks away would have been the power level route. And it would have spared all required was tearing down not fifty four apartment houses but six small tenements, but he didn't do that. Because to use that route at the end of it. He would have the demolish a business that was very profitable to the Bronx democratic a number of Bronx democratic politicians. I said I want to show. What happens to a neighborhood to the people in when one of these highways ghost through took a long time to research and write that? I'm not sorry. I did them. Robert carry that drive that you talk about in yourself. I I have to get the answer. I can't write it until I know this answer I have to say a that sounds very LBJ to me. I mean you've written over and over that he had to win. It wasn't a choice. He had to have it. He couldn't lose. He couldn't rest until he had it. He had to win. And I don't know if I'm reaching. But is there a part of Johnson that drew you to him because maybe you're the same way? Well, you never know the answer to things like that Todd. And I don't know the answer to that. I don't think so. But I don't really know what drew me to Johnson was my interest in political power. And my thinking that if I picked the right guy, I could show how political power works. Not what we learned in textbooks. But the roar naked realities of political power Howard works. In fact, Johnson used political power. He was a genius in its use. And I felt if I could show how he used how he accumulated how we got power how he used and the ends both a good and for ill. If you wanna use that phrase that used it for I would be a casting a little new light on the processes of government and political. Power in America, Susan sentence. This Email my family never got over Robert Moses impact on their lives destroying their home in neighborhood. I thank Robert Caro for articulating the pain. And Robert Caro I want to thank you for joining us this hour. You know, I promised you with the top. And I'm gonna keep my promise that I would not badger. You about win the final book will be finished. But I thought that maybe today might be the day that you decide it's time that we can know the title is today that day. Well, no, I'm not I do have the title. But I'm not gonna tell you Todd. I had to ask, you know. I did. I gave it my shot. We will learn the title. We will join us terrific. Well, I I appreciate that. And you said that I found like a person who's read your books deeply, and I'm I'm happy to say that not only have I Robert Caro. But as somebody who spent many many years as a Senate reporter in that chamber and in the press gallery of the Senate, I could never have done my job. Well, if I hadn't read master of the Senate, and and since I have the chance I wanna thank you for that. Robert Caro, we're gonna leave on a song that you mentioned is one of the most important songs. Driving your journalistic career? This is waist deep in the big muddy by Pete Seeger, which tells the story of Vietnam and Lyndon Johnson, Robert Caro biographer American historian. Thank you so much for being here. It was a real pleasure to this show is produced very Abeille by Morgan givens and edited by Miranda full more to learn more about them and the rest of the team you can visit one eight dot org slash staff. As always this program comes to you from w. AMU part of American University in Washington. It's distributed by NPR until we meet again. I'm Todd's willik. Thank you so much for being with us this hour. This is one A. Was all it floated by the Sajjan said turn around men in charge from now on and we just made it out of the big money with the captain dead and gone. We stripped in dived in and found his body. Stuck in the old quicksand, I guess they didn't know that the water was deeper than the place seat once before in another stream joined the big muddy about a half mile from way, we'd gone we lucky to escape from the big muddy when the big food had Bush. Well, I'm not going to point anymore.

Lyndon Johnson Robert Caro Todd Robert Moses reporter Bobby Kennedy Senate NPR New York City America national power Robert Carroll Washington White House Robert Vietnam Federal Communications Commiss Senator Long Island
Democracy Now! 2019-04-29 Monday

Democracy Now! Audio

59:02 min | 2 years ago

Democracy Now! 2019-04-29 Monday

"Run New York is democracy. Now, I don't think about I don't think of my books biographies. I'm not interested in writing stories of great men with I'm interested in examining political power through the lives of great men, and particular how political power shapes our lives shapes the law, most of those who wield power, but it also shapes the lives, of course, those of the power, and I'm interested in the lives of power. Today, we spend the hour with Robert Carol who's been described as the greatest political biographer of our times, he won two Pulitzer prizes. I for his groundbreaking book on Robert Moses called the power broker and then for master if the Senate when four volumes he's written about Lyndon B Johnson. He still writing the Robert Carro is out with a new book, titled working researching interviewing right all that. And more coming. Welcome to democracy. No democracy, now dot or the warrant piece report. I'm Amy Goodman and San Diego. California funeral services are being held today for Laurie K a sixty year old Jewish congregate who was shot dead Saturday in the latest attack by white supremacists. On a house of worship on Saturday. Morning men with an assault rifle entered the hubbub of power synagogue and open fire during a service marking the last day of Passover K died after she reportedly jumped in front of a hail of gunfire to shield. The rabbi Israel Goldstein from the onslaught rabbi Goldstein was shot in both hands losing his right index finger he spoke to reporters Sunday in an emotional news conference. The lobby and I see Laurie laying on the floor unconscious. And her dear husband duct to Howard. K who's like a brother to me? Is trying to Sesa Tate her, and he faints, and he's laying there on the floor next to his wife, and then the daughter comes out screaming. This is the most heart to wrenching sight. I could've seen. Two other congregants were wounded in the attack. Police say the shooter fled the scene, but was arrested a short time later, they identified him as nineteen year old John Ernest a student cow state, San Marcos. Prosecutors are investigating the shooting a hate crime. After the suspect published an anti semitic manifesto, online referencing recent massacres at the tree of life synagogue in Pittsburgh, and the pair of mosques in Christchurch New Zealand Ernest also claimed responsibility for an arson attack on a mosque in San Diego County last month. The latest white nationalist killing comes after the department of homeland security disbanded its domestic terrorism unit last year reassigning analysts to other departments DHS says the threat of homegrown extremism has been significantly reduced. But in a review of fifty murders committed by extremist in two thousand eighteen. The Anti-Defamation League found forty nine came at the hands of right wing extremists with white supremacists alone accounting for thirty nine of the murders. Meanwhile, there were more mass shootings around the United States over the weekend. In baltimore. Maryland gunman fired indiscriminately into crowds gathered for an outdoor cookout Sunday evening, killing one person and injuring seven others. Meanwhile, in Sumner county, Tennessee police shot and wounded twenty five year old Michael Cummins who is heavily armed before taking him into custody Saturday. Investigators believe he's responsible for seven murders two homes over the weekend. In indianapolis. President Trump told the annual convention of the National Rifle Association Friday, he seeking to cancel US support for the arms trade treaty, an international agreement that limits weapon sales that fueled destructive conflicts during his annual address to the NRA Trump signed a document asking the. Senate to reject ratification of the arms treaty. Pretty threatened your. Subjugated? And you know, exactly what's going on here your rights, and you constitutional today. She'll rules and restrictions and regulations under my administration. We will never surrender American sovereignty to anyone. Trump's appearance at the NRA convention came as the organizations president Oliver North said he was stepping down from the position north resignation came. Amidst a power struggle with the NRA's longtime chief executive Wayne LaPierre and after New York's attorney general open investigation into the NRA's tax exempt status. Oliver North was the central figure in the Iran contra scandal, hoping the Reagan administration circumvent congress to secretly send arms to Iran and use the proteins proceeds to fund the US back contras in Nicaragua. President Trump has once again defended the white supremacists behind deadly violence in Charlottesville, Virginia and August of two thousand seventeen the unite the right rally saw several hundred white nationalist carrying torches March on a statue of confederate general Robert ley. Chanting Jews will not replace us. The next day self-described Neo Nazi James, Alex fields plowed, his car into a cry. Out of anti-racist protestors, murdering Heather hire and injuring twenty eight others in the wake of the killing. President Trump said there were quote, very fine. People on both sides on Friday reporter asked him about the remark about people that went because they feel very strongly about the monument to Robert E Lee, great general whether you like it or that he was one of the great general in response democrat democratic house majority whip James Clyburn, accused Trump of praising loser. This is congressman Clyburn speaking on ABC's this week. Robert E Lee was a slave owner and a brutal slave master. Thankfully, he lost that wall and time it's kind kinda interesting. The president is now glorified lose. A he always said he hid it loses in Spain incumbent, prime minister Pedro Sanchez. Will retain his position after a general election Sunday that also saw a far right party. Make big gains. Sanchez a Socialist Workers Party one hundred twenty three seats and increase over the last election, but fell short of winning outright, parliamentary majority the anti-immigrant far-right FOX party, which vowed to quote, make Spain great again won twenty four seats. It's the first time since the Franco fascist dictatorship that fascist party one more than one seat in Spain's parliament. In mozambique. At least five people were killed and thousands more fear trapped after the second major cyclone-hit, south eastern Africa within weeks roared ashore as a category. Four storm with winds of over one hundred thirty five miles per hour. Cyclone Kenneth was the strong storm ever to make landfall in Mozambique officials are warning the death toll is likely to rise after the storm flattened whole villages bringing heavy rains that left. Some towns in northern Mozambique cutoff by raging. Floodwaters officials are warning of a looming humanitarian disaster in a region that's still reeling from cyclone which struck in March leaving nearly six hundred dead while sparking a cholera epidemic and shortages of drinking water and food in Britain labor party leader. Jeremy Corbyn says he'll force a parliamentary vote this week on whether to declare a national climate change emergency corbin's, call for more urgent action on climate change comes after more than a thousand. Activists were arrested around London in the past two weeks in a wave of non violent protests known as extinction rebellion in West Virginia. Twenty two year old protester is facing felony terrorism charge and other misdemeanours after he was arrested in a violent civil disobedience action into stopping the mountain valley pipeline Holden Dimitrius was arrested Thursday about five hours after he chained himself to wilder equipment slowing construction of the frac gas pipeline since February activists have been occupying trees in the path of the pipeline. Route in west Virginia's Jefferson national forest with a mountain valley pipeline company hopes to drill through a mountain directly underneath the Appalachian trail. Sri Lanka has banned face coverings in public following the Easter Sunday attacks that left more than two hundred fifty people dead last week, the country's president Ma through palace and Sarah said he was using an emergency law to enact the ban Monday, citing public safety to outlaw quote all forms of clothing that cover a person's face and prevents them from being identified on quote. Muslim leaders are criticizing the move which is thought to target the cob and burqa warned by some Muslim women executive director of Human Rights, Watch thraw tweeted, no indication that recent Sri Lanka bombers covered their faces. But president Sarah CENA bans face covering that needless. Restriction means that Muslim women whose practice leads them to cover up now won't be able to leave home. Roth tweeted this comes as fifteen people including six children died. Friday in a raid on a suspected hideout of militants connected to the Sri Lanka attacks. Three men. Set off explosives as troops attempted to raid. The house killing the children and three women in Hong Kong tens of thousands of people March fees fully on Sunday against a proposal that would allow people to be extradited to mainland China for trial where they would face far fewer protections afforded under Hong Kong's policy known as one country two systems. Many of the protestors held them Brel is recalling the two thousand fourteen umbrella movement pro democracy protests. This is Jason ching. One of the marchers. To get this law passed it won't matter. If you're an average person or foreign are coming through Hong Kong, there will be a real possibility you'll be taken and sent off to the mainland in the United States and major ruling for women's reproductive rights. The supreme court of Kansas ruled Friday that women have a right to safe and legal abortion under the state constitution in a six to one decision. The court ruled Kansas constitution, quote, affords protection, the right of personal autonomy. Which includes the ability to control one's own body to assert bodily integrity and to exercise self-determination, unquote. The ruling overturns a two thousand fifteen Kansas law banning the most common abortion procedure after about fifteen weeks of pregnancy. This comes abortion rights are under threat across the United States with twenty eight states currently considering legislation to ban or restrict abortion in various ways, three prominent women's right. Activists are launching a new political action group today called super majority aimed at training new generation of women activists to take on grassroots campaign and electoral politics, at least you Garza co founder of black lives matter former Planned Parenthood, president Cecile Richards agent peu executive director of the national domestic workers alliance say they'll focus on mobilizing voters for the twenty twenty primary and general elections speaking to the website refinery twenty nine Cecile Richards said quote, women are the majority of voters in the majority of activists, and yet they continue to be treated as a side issue in a special interest group. It's time that women get the credit and the encouragement and we begin to amplify the extrordinary work. That women are doing Richard said top Pentagon officials or backing department of homeland security requests to allow members of the US military to come in contact with migrants along the US Mexico border. If approved the plan would provide waivers. For about three hundred troops to work as cooks and drivers for immigration agencies. The plan would also bring in military lawyers to work on immigration cases in civilian courts in Massachusetts. Federal prosecutors have charged a state judge a former court officer with obstruction of Justice for allegedly helping an undocumented immigrant evade ice agents said a district courthouse in the city of Newton. Judge. Shelly richmond. Joseph an officer Wesley McGregor helped an undocumented meant sneak out of the courthouse through the basement back door knowing ice agents were looking for him in the front lobby. Both Joseph and McGregor pleaded not guilty. A lawyer from Gregor, quote, the charges factually wrong and legally questionable and quote, federal immigration enforcement, Runamuck, unquote, and Los Angeles health officials have ordered a quarantine for over one thousand students and staff at two colleges emits the largest measles. Outbreak to hit the United States in decades. The order came after a student UCLA and another at Cal State. Los Angeles came down with measles, potentially exposing hundreds of others on each campus. This is LA county public health director, Barbara Ferrer. The department of public cove has asked people who've been issued a quarantine order to adhere to the following to remain at home or in a designated setting and not to attend school or work outside of that designated setting if they have medical appointments, or some other urgent matter that needs that requires that, they leave the home they need to notify the public health department before they do that. And they have a number to call. So that they can get assistance in making sure as they travel. They don't inadvertently of risk exposing others to me cels. They're not allowed to use public or commercial transportation. Shen that includes buses subways trains. Taxis are airplanes measles is highly contagious infection. That kills one hundred thousand people worldwide each year, most of them children public health officials say the disease is resurgent in the United States due to declining vaccination rates spun by discredited theory that the MR vaccine causes autism, and those are some of the headlines, this is democracy. Now democracy, now dot or the Warren peace report, I'm Amy Goodman. We turn now to one of the nation's most celebrated writers the two time Pulitzer prize winner, Robert Carro, he's out with a new book, titled working that gives an inside look at his remarkable research and writing process, and it does appear that Robert Caro is always working forty five years ago. He published his first book the power broker, Robert Moses and the fall of New York over a seven-year period he conducted over five hundred. Interviews for what turned out to be a twelve hundred page book looking at how Robert Moses reshape the nation's largest City, New York, the modern library would later. Name. The power broker is one of the top one hundred nonfiction books of the twentieth century along with such works as Rachel Carson's silent spring, and w e do boys is the souls of black folk and Carol hasn't stopped working since for the past forty five years, Robert Carro with much help from his wife has been researching the life and times of president Lyndon Baines Johnson from his childhood and hill country, Texas to his time in the White House for volumes have been published so far the path to power means of cent master of the Senate and the passage of power they total more than three thousand pages rubber Carro is now writing the fifth volume looking at Vietnam the great society and president Johnson's decision not to seek reelection in one thousand nine hundred six. Fifty eight Robert Carro has been described as the greatest political biographer of our times and America's biographer in chief, but to reduce Caros work as simply biographies of great men misses the point Carro uses both Moses and Johnson to show. How political power works Cairo writes that by focusing on Robert Moses, he was able to explore quote, the realities of urban political power power and cities, not just a New York. But in all the cities of America in the middle of the twentieth century with LBJ Carro helped expose how national power works in the Senate and the presidency. Robert Carro once told Kurt Vonnegut, quote, what I'm trying to do is to show not only how power works, but the effective power on those without power, how political power effects all our lives every single day in ways, we never think about he says. Well with democracy now co host one been solace today is joining us from Rutgers University in New Brunswick, New Jersey. We're spending the hour with Robert Carro, welcome to democracy. Now. It's great to have you with us to be with you. I wanna go back to fifty five years ago. In fact, it would be fifty five years ago in July that president Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty four and go back a few months before that when Lyndon Baines Johnson standing next to a blood spattered. Jackie Kennedy would be sworn in as president. He could have taken on any issue at that point becoming president warned by many in his inner circle don't do the Civil Rights Act. Don't lose the south. He moved forward. Describe for us set the stage in the place talk about LBJ's decision to go this route four weeks for four days after the assassination. He has to give it a dress to the joint session of congress. He's not even in the Oval Office. Yes, he's still working out of his private. Home in Washington three or four of his speechwriters sitting around the kitchen table trying to draft this speech. And at some point Johnson comes down wearing a bathrobe and ask them how they're doing. They say with the only thing we're all sure of his don't make civil rights priority. If you anger the southerners who control congress, they're going to stop you whole legislative programme like they did Kennedy. It's a noble cause. But it's a lowest course, don't fight for it and Lyndon Johnson says to them what the hell's the presidency four then. And of course, in his speech. He says will the southern senators sitting in a row in front of him. Our first priority has to be the passage of the civil rights spill. And talk about the battle that ensued. You particularly focus on Richard Russell. And you pit these two. Well, they pitted themselves against each. Other. Russell Johnson convinced the seven senators for twenty years before nineteen sixty four every vote that he made was on the side of side of the south. He he not only supported every southern Bill and opposed every civil rights Bill, but he was a southern strategist at an Russell took him under his wing, Richard. Russell was the most powerful figure in the Senate. He was the head of the mighty southern caucus. You have to stand in that year. I forget the may have the numbers roll here. But proximity right of the sixteen great standing committees in the Senate eleven which aired by southerners rallies. They had all the power in the Senate. And Russell raised Lyndon Johnson up to the position of majority leader it was him who really put Johnson. And so I would speak to some some of the southern senators, and I asked one of them, I remember Herman Talmadge who's actually doing when I finally got talked him. He was the Senator from Georgia finally talked to me, and I'm asking him about this. And I said, well, what how what did Lyndon Johnson convince you should be the relationship between white men and black men. What did he believe how said master and servant, and I said, so how did he make you believe that Talmadge who is, you know, show up man and proud of his shortness said he talked to me all the time. I thought we were friends. I thought I knew what he really believes. So I said, well, how did you feel when Johnson gave the speech saying our first priority must be? Civil rights Bill. How did you feel sitting there as he stands feign? This Talmadge said there was this long. Pause finely. He says to me sick. I felt sick. And and Robert Carol what then changed Johnson and made him such a proponent of the civil rights movement. Well, I'm not sure that anything changed Johnson to you. See it may be that he believed the same thing all along, but he concealed it for twenty years. You know, why do I think Lyndon Johnson truly believed in civil rights that it wasn't a political thing? Because when he was twenty and twenty one years old he went to college college he called the poor school. He didn't have enough money to continue how to drop out between his sophomore junior year and teach school and he taught in a school in little town down near the Mexican border in Texas in what they called the Mexican school. I wrote about that no teacher had ever cared. If these kids learned or not this. Teacher cared. He was so insistent that they they learn English. He thought that was the crucial thing if at recess. He heard boys shouting and excitement on the baseball diamond he'd in Spanish he'd run out and spank them on the spot girls. He gave a tongue lashing to now. All this all this time later, he has concealed us. Now, he becomes president. He has the power. You know, we all learn lured actions axiom. All power corrupts absolute power corrupts. Absolutely. I'm not sure that as a result of my work. I believe what I really believe. I really believe that power does not always corrupt sometimes power cleanses. But with power always does is reveal when you get enough power. So you can do what you want. Then people see what you wanted to do alone. I was interested in in in your new book working, and obviously some of the stuff that you have in. Here is a distillation not only of what you learned in the the bigger books that you're also the process by which you learn them, you talk about the rise of power of Lyndon. Johnson you center on this moment in October of nineteen forty when it appeared to be that Johnson really has as a young as young member of congress begins to gain more ch- much more influence in power. And you were fascinated to try to understand what had happened in October of nineteen forty two suddenly catapult Johnson into a key figure, and you end up discovering this whole connection that he developed to the oil barons of Texas and the funding of the Democratic Party. I'm wondering if you could talk about that. Yes. It was quite it was quite you. See he's been in congress only three years. He's thirty two years old. He has no power. And then all of a sudden after the month of October nineteen forty just before the election. He's the guy you see in the file senior congressman asking for five minutes of his time. So I said what happened during that five months? I that time I was talking to a notable Washington fixer, very beautifully and. We other dealer in Washington for decades. Tommy, the cork he used to call me kid. So I said what happened in October nineteen forty. Everyone of Corcoran said to me money kid money, but you never going to be able to to write about that kid. And I said why not he said because Lyndon Johnson never put anything in writing. Well, Corcoran was only partly right Johnson. Hardly ever put anything in writing. But as I'm going through the papers and the Johnson library. There ought to amazing documents one is a telegram from Brown and root the Texas oil contracting. Damn building firm Johnson is getting federal contract saying to Lyndon Johnson at the beginning of October nineteen forty Linden the checks her on the way. And the the the the money that that is being sent to him unprecedented amount of money is for him to distribute to congressman because Lyndon Johnson is a genius. He doesn't have any power. But he realizes there is one thing has that. No other congressman has he knows to groups of people. He knows the Texas oil men and contractors who need favors from the federal government. And he needs a willing to pay to get it to give campaign contributions, and he knows the northeast and northern liberal congressman who need money for their campaigns. He arranges that all this money begin through him, and that creates power, and there is a list that I found in Johnson library that was just remarkable. You know, we wonder how do you prove that economic power has such an effect on political power that economic power creates political power sometime you see? It all in this list list is type one of Johnson's secretaries to type column in the left column is the name of the congressman who's asking for money in the Senate column is how much money he's asking for small amounts tiny amounts, by our standards. Four Linda need four hundred fifty dollars for poll watches Linden seven hundred dollars. We'll give me a round of Ness minute advertiser. But in the left hand column left hand margin next to the congressman's name the errors by each name something in Johnson's handwriting. Sometimes he writes, if he's giving the congressman all the money, the guy has for he writes. Okay. Sometimes if he's giving him part of it. He he writes okay in the amount. Okay. Three hundred okay five hundred. But sometimes he writes, none. He's not giving him anything. And sometimes he writes, none out and his longtime assistant. Join conley. What did it mean when Lyndon Johnson wrote non out and Connolly said to me, I'll never forget his tone. He said that go I was never going to get money from the Johnson. Then in Johnson, never forgave. And he never forgot. We're talking to Robert Carroll the Pulitzer prize winning author of two books. Power Burke, powerbroker, Robert Moses in the fall of New York and the years of Lyndon Johnson. His most recent bestselling book is titled working. We're speaking with Robert Carroll for the hour. Stay with us. We. We. We shall overcome live recording. The late folk legend Pete Seeger singing Carnegie Hall in nineteen sixty three Pete Seeger was born one hundred years ago. This Friday may third nineteen nineteen this is democracy. Now, I'm Amy Goodman with one Gonzales who's joining us from Rutgers University in New Jersey, where he teaches our guest for the hour is the Pulitzer prize winning author Robert Carroll won the prizes for two books. One on Robert Moses one unprecedent Johnson, though, he's actually written four on president Johnson and writing fifth and now has new book out called working as we listen to that break Pete sing Pete Seeger singing, we shall overcome talk about Lyndon Johnson hearing that song outside the White House. He's hearing as you know, in those days, we had Morton Luther King marching in Selma marches. The pickets civil rights movement. Believe Lyndon Johnson wasn't fully on there. So I they heard his health southern accent? They are singing it on Pennsylvania Avenue outside the why you can hear it. You know in the family dining room at the White House on the night that he'd be goes to congress to deliver his speech on the Voting Rights Act as the Coa turns out of the White House onto Pennsylvania every pickets. They're just pressing almost up to the car, and among the things they're chanting. Hey, hey, LBJ, just you wait see what happens in sixty eight and the singing we shall overcome Johnson is sitting in the back of the core. Three aides of facing he doesn't even look up. He's turning the pages. But I one of the aides who knew Johnson I said did he hear them? He said he heard he gives goes to congress and gives this speech in which he adopts the key lawing the. Anthem of the civil rights movement. We shall overcome as our anthem. He says it's not just negroes who have to come overcome. We have to overcome our prejudice. And we shall overcome. When Johnson's core comes back to the White House. I wrote the pickets who going. I wanna turn to an audio recording of a phone call between president Lyndon Johnson. And the Reverend Martin Luther King junior. This is from January fifteenth nineteen sixty five as they're discussing the Voting Rights Act that would be Johnson with sign off on. We've got to go up the the qualification voters that will answer seventy percent of your problem. Just cleared out everywhere. Make it age and read and write. No pass on. Chaucer said Browning's poetry or constitutions or are memorize Moore anything else. And then we have to put them in the postal postmaster federal employees that I could throw they can say locally recommended for the commerce. Money's prove the Senator. But he doesn't register by a new. And it's not an outside Washington influence, it's a low put my aunt. But thank you all fit by stained. I haven't thought this through. But that's it. That's my general feeling and I've talked to attorney general, and I've got them working on it. I don't want to start off with that anymore. And I do fourteen beef coach what getting out. And I don't want to publicize it. But I won't do. That's that's no outline of what I had mind when I remembered. Make your state perfect about votes important, very important. I think it's good to talk about that. And I just don't see anybody say that man can fight bit. But he came and post. That was by the way that conversation nineteen sixty five was on Dr king's birthday at the time. The Voting Rights Act would be signed August sixth nineteen sixty five that was Johnson. Speaking to Dr Martin Luther King, and I wanted you to comment on their relationship. But I once was speaking to Harry, Belafonte and said when you get on in years and can't remember you're almost daily conversations with Dr king, you can just apply under the freedom of information to the FBI to get the transfer of the conversations you had Robert Kennedy Johnson's attorney general had king wiretapped talk about that relationship, and what Lyndon Baines Johnson did and signing both the Civil Rights Act in one year later the voting rights in the tape. You just play the most significant loin was the first to loins Johnson said he says, basically. If you make it easier for Negros to register. Seventy percent of your problem is solved. Johnson believed that if they black people would given the right to vote they could take care of a lot themselves. They would start electing their own officials. They they would start to change America. So he's saying to king. The thing that I'm concentrating on is that you can register just as easy as going into a postal office. If we give them the power to vote, they'll have the power than a, you know, Martin Luther King for a long time. Didn't trust Lyndon Johnson. You know, he didn't fully didn't believe fully believe that. When Johnson gives his speech and says we shall overcome Martin Luther King is down in Selma. He's listen to it on television in the living room of one of his supporters. I went Johnson says and we shall overcome. They turn around and look at Dr king. It's the only time they say they ever sore him cry. At Robert Carroll to to go back to your of your approach to writing and researching especially in this age when everyone or most of the young people get their formation and their news from a Twitter and Facebook posts and relatively short articles that they might read online you actually moved with your wife to Texas to be able to really get into the the subject matter of LBJ and his role in history. And where he came from could you talk about your approach to spending years often just writing one book. Well. On the research research. You know, I write pretty fast, though, no one believes that it's the research that takes time the particular thing you're talking about moving to the hill country. I thought we wouldn't have to do that. There were already as I recall seven biographies published. They all had chapters on his youth. That depicted him a certain way, but I'm trying to get a little more detail. Just so I can write better couple of chapters myself, and I realize I'm talking the people in the hill country, then it was a land of such loneliness such poverty that's for me coming from New York. I said to you know, I'm understanding these people I'm not on the standing the mores. I'm not understanding this country the hill country, and therefore, I'm not understanding Lyndon Johnson. Because this is what he came out of shape. So I said we're going to have to move down there and get to know these people I who. Love Paris writes books on French history herself. Why can't you do a biography of Napoleon, but we moved down there. You know intimate. Are you talk about why it's hard to get these people to talk to you. They mistrusted journalists because when Johnson was a president that journalists would come down for three or four days or maybe even a week and go back and write these series of articles. And what the hill country was really like I'll tell you what the hill country was like you'd go to interview some person who was alive who knew Lyndon Johnson and high school now was old and directions would be something. Like you drive out of Austin for forty seven miles you watch for the category on your left, turn left. There. You go on this rudder unpaved road for like thirty miles at the end of it is a house with a person who the information you need, you say I haven't passed the house for thirty miles. Who does this person talk to the? Does she have any friends? It's a different. They're very wary of strangers. And I wasn't getting people to talk to me at all. So as soon as we move down there. I said happens as soon as they realize someone had come to stay in trying to understand them. They would tell me what Lyndon Johnson was really like as a young man, which was very different from anything that have been depicted before. You talked about moving there with your wife. I wanted to talk about her role with you have extolled her what role in your work. I mean, everything from when you move to hill country, how she gets to befriend this taciturn woman who is an important source for you turning up with homemade fig jam she made herself that opens up the people to speak. But it's more than the jam. It is the research. It is your trusted fellow researcher partner in all of this is the only, you know, you look at other biographies and the knowledge they might name three or four or more research is who helped them. Are found that these only one person besides myself that I've ever been able to trust to do my research, and it's on she is wonderful researcher. She's also historian in her own, right? You know in high school yearbook says haram Bishen is to be historical researcher. So we spent a lot of lot of months and even years of our lives in the Lyndon Johnson library going through peg vers. We're going to break for a moment. And then we're gonna come back to continue this discussion. And also talk about Robert Moses, the man who you wrote the book about the powerbroker Robert Caro that twice Pulitzer prize winning author of the power broker. Robert Moses in the fall, New York and the years of Lyndon Johnson. His most recent bestselling book working this is democracy. Now back in a minute. It was back getting nineteen eighty two levels of a good platoon. We were on maneuvers in Louisiana by of the moon. Night of the captain told is to. That's how it all the gun. We were knee-deep in the big muddy the big fools had to push. Will the saw Jin said sue you show. This is the best way back to the face. Go on. I bought it this river bottom mile above this place. It'll be a little soggy. But just keep slogging. We'll soon be on dry ground. We were waist deep in the big muddy the big pool said. Sensor with all this equipment Noman. We'll be able to swim. Don't be nervous. Nellie Kempton to him. Oh, we need a little determination and follow me. I'll lead we raise. Steed. Seger. Singing live on the CBS show. The smothers brothers comedy hour in nineteen sixty seven. The song was initially censored from the original broadcast, but then under enormous pressure CVS gave in the ses democracy now democracy now dot org. The warrant piece report we're spending our with the Pulitzer prize winning author Robert Carro who's that with the new book called working researching interviewing writing he won the Pulitzer prize for the master of the Senate about Lyndon Johnson. And before that he wrote he won the prize for the powerbroker. Robert Moses in the fall of New York, I mainly Goodman with one solace. Will Robert coward light the turn to the powerbroker? I've often said over the years to all of my friends in journalism as well. As to students, I've taught that you really cannot understand a modern urban America without having read the powerbroker. It is really the Moby Dick of nonfiction writing in America in terms of its epic a approach and and analysis of how power is wielded and how cities are shaped. Could you talk about how you I decided to write about Robert Moses, perhaps the most powerful unelected official never elected to any office in the history, and the modern history of New York and really had influence in cities across the country. Well, I was a reporter for Newsday and investigative reporter. So I had won a number of minor really minor believe me really minor journalistic awards, but when you're young, and you win anything you think, you know, everything about an I thought I really understood political power Robert Moses wanted to build this bridge from ride always debate. You know, he built these bridges across Long Island Sound they built the triborough the Bronx Whitestone throngs now we want to build the ROY the bay bridge. Newsday or sowings me. I was then whatever twenty four twenty five to look into it. And I discover it's this really terrible idea would have generated so much traffic. The Long Island expressway needed would've needed twelve more lanes just to hold the car and the peers of this bridge would have had to be so big that they would of course, titled pollution and Long Island Sound I went up to all the I saw the governor Nelson Rockefeller has council the assembly speaker this president of the state Senate everybody understood this was a terrible idea. I write this story saying the idea is dead. I go onto something else about two weeks later. I have a friend in Albany, quote me. And he says Bob you order come back up here. Robert Moses was here yesterday. So I should I don't think. So I think took care of that bridges as well. Robert Moses was up here yesterday. I think you would've come back come back, I speak to the same people. The governor the assembly speaker at cetera. They all think this is now the greatest idea in the world. And in fact, the state is going to pay for the initial stages of it, and I'm driving back to Long Island. I remember it was one hundred sixty three miles and on thinking, you know, you think you know, what political power is you don't have the faintest idea as you think you in a democracy and political power comes from being elected from the votes that people at the ballot box. Here's a guy who was never elected to anything, and he had more power than anyone who was more power than any mayor more power than any governor. More power than any mayor and governor combined and he held his power for forty four years and with it he shaped all New York City, and you Robert Carro don't have any idea where this power comes from. And I also realize neither does anybody else. That's what I decided to do the powerbroker. Well, in working, you talk about also the impact that Moses had on the the neighborhoods of the senior and really redesigning many of New York City's debut, and you you you say at one point he shaped the city physically not only by what he built. But by what he destroyed to build as expressways, he visited from their homes. Two hundred fifty thousand persons in the process, ripping out the the the centers of score of neighborhoods. Many of them friendly vibrant communities that had been made the city a home to its people and to build his non highway public works. He visited perhaps two hundred and fifty thousand more of perhaps half a million people were displaced by the public works of Robert Moses. And of course, many people don't think about the impact the destruction of communities in the fifth. Eighties and sixties then led to the rise of crime in the in the seventies and eighties and many of these same neighborhoods when you know, what you're talking about is I decided that my books had to be different than what I thought they would be at the beginning. I came to realize that if I wanted to write about political power the way I wanted to write about it. I would have to show the effective power. Not just on those who wield power. But on those on whom it's we'll on the powerless show. What government can do for people for good? But also to people for not good. And what I did was I decided to take one mile of the six hundred twenty seven miles of expressways in Parkway's at Robert Moses built and show the Uman cost of that one mile to do that. I think he victim fifteen thousand people for this one mile mile. The cross Bronx expressway at called east in your neighborhood. Call these Tremont and flying the people who would live there before now before this was a lower middle middle class community largely Jewish but a lot of Irish in. German and they're these people are not well off. But as long as they had a community and neighborhood where they knew how to all your friends and neighbors, they had something I had to find them. Finding them was an easy because they were scattered all over the four winds. It's like those are issuing an edict in Russia. I think of Anna teff forever saw every time. I see fiddler on the roof the little town of Anna Tesco, he just he these people I found them in coop city and small apartments in the housing projects living with their relatives. And when I would come back and write my interviews. I saw that. I was writing one word over and over lonely. I was asking people what's life like now and over and over again, they would say lonely they had lost in able their sense of community. And this is the Uman course of what part of the Uman cost of what Robert Moses did. I wanted to go back to. Nineteen fifty three the TV program long, gene Krahn scope, interviewed Robert Moses, this anchor William Bradford QA questioning Moses. Roads, you have to move a lot of people's homes. Don't you he s especially in urban communities in urban suburb and communities that is one of the big problems. You give us any indication of how many homes have to be moved and building the New York throw away. New York threw away is I would say three quarters of it is in open territory. Whether it's no problem the other one for I wouldn't I wouldn't know how many that's Robert Moses in nineteen fifty three. And I was wondering if you could comment on what he's saying. And also the building of Jones beach that access to Jones beach what Robert Moses intended people of color, poor people not being able to get their talk about this. Robert CARA talk about the Jones beach. I, you know, Joe shown beach is on the war in one soy, the wonderful side of Robert Moses, he creates this the world's greatest bathing beach in in Long Island. There was no place for the masses of New York City by which was meant than. White middle class people. They were just the automobile age was just flowering was the nineteen twenties. And he's creating Jones beach is at active grade inspiration. But he doesn't warrant poor people and in particular poor people of color to use Jones beach. So what he does poor people in the nineteen twenties and thirties don't have automobiles. So the only way they can get to Jones beach is by mass transportation. So he takes care of the railroad side of that very easily the Long Island railroad wants to build a spurt of Jones beach. He just says no, but they also get out there by bus. He doesn't wanna take any chances of that. So the Parkway's out there. I he his legis has legislation passed that buses can't use the parkways, which is the only way to Jones beach. But then as his chief aide one said to me, he said, you know, the commission. They call them the commission commissioned a new legislation can always be changed tant change bridge when it's up. So if you drive out to the long to Jones beach, you see along the southern state and the meadow brook Parkway that the roads to Jones beach. Clearance. They're one hundred seventy three of these bridges clearance, thirteen join inches clearance ten feet because buses needed fourteen feet of clearance. So people couldn't get the buses one of the re the rebel Tory moments of my life and iron is life. I wanted to see how this affected over the decades. So now on doing the power broker, it's not nineteen thirty anymore when you opened its now, let's say nineteen seventy forty years later is one big parking lot in Jones beach with four little four underpasses that people use to get to the beach. We stood there had to pay. I said whites Latinos blacks until this day one of the moments that shaped my career's biographer was the rage. Really that kept building in me as you spend all these things for the white people in number. Hardly any Latinos. And even less for the blacks, you said, this is what public works public policy does to the powerless to poor people and how long the effect of it lasts. And rod carry you mentioned that many people call them the Commissioner, I want to get back to this issue of how he was able to affect so much dramatic change in New York City through basically, the skillful use of what's known as a public authority to circumvent the elected bodies of government, and he was on. So he was basically the the chair or the sole member of so many little known public authorities. How he wielded that power? If you could talk about that. Yes. Robert Moses was a political genius as I said looking into him. I realized how little I knew about how political power. How he knew everything he thinks he's going to get elected to something. He runs for governor of New York state and people don't like him, and he loses by what I think is still the largest majority anyone ever lost by a state election in New York thinks he's going to be mayor of New York. He's not going to be mayor of New York. He realizes he has to get power to build these great public works. He's used public work somewhere. He takes a yellow legal pad and goes into a little room next to his office sits there by himself and drafts legislation which basically create public authorities in the modern form before that they would just entities that sold bonds to build a bridge or a tunnel collected tolls until the bonds were paid off and went out of existence. He created legislation that said these authorities will never go out and as long as he is head of the authorities. He's going to have the power of the authorities and these power. Authorities. Of course, you know, for about thirty years if you were paying toll to and any bridge tunnel in New York City, you basically paying directly to Robert Moses he had more money to build things in the city. And if you could talk about the building of Lincoln center this cultural mecca, and what it destroyed and talk about the communities of color that lived in that area. Will it's when you look at you look at you know, this is. Why the powerbrokers very complicated. What was complicated book to write? Because there are these two vividly different. So I of Robin, Moses one is this genius. That can conceive of you public work. The other is absolute disregard to what happens to the Uman beings who live there before. And also the shape in which they're built when you look at Lincoln center today, you said before there there was low income, but not a slum of a thriving low income neighborhood. Which was simply wiped out from Lincoln center. But what got me about Lincoln center. Was that part of this Lincoln put the front part of Lincoln center is is wonderful go to the back wall of Lincoln center. That's the wall that looks out on what's left of the neighborhood that had been there before a poor neighborhood. It's blank. They're almost no entrances to Lincoln center, it's turning its back on New York City on the poor people of New York City. Robert CARA act. You little time. We have left about your writing style. I mean books are always very vivid descriptive, but some of your sentences go on for pages, you talk about whether you consciously, right? These amazing league long sentences. Well, I don't do that consciously. The answer to your question is quick one. No fig just seem to sometimes they seem to come out that way. Some people say I write too many very short sentences. I'd like to think that means I write contrasting sentences longhand, and then you type I don't mean into a computer but into a tighter. Yeah. Yes. I my first few drifts and lawing hand on a legal pay us a Smith, corona electric ten oh, it's to show. It's the slow myself down. I think I write two faced I wanna make my fells think things through and I find if I ride it in hand it's a little bit slower. So I think a little bit more you are testament to the need for journalists newspapers when we see stabs being cut the level of investigation that you need to investigate power and give voice to the powerless. We wanna thank you so much being with us. We will do. Two and post online actually now dot org. Robert Caro Pulitzer prize winning author I made me Goodman with one dollars. Thanks so much for joining.

Robert Kennedy Johnson Robert Moses president New York City Lyndon Johnson Amy Goodman Pulitzer prize Senate Robert Carro congress Texas United States Robert Carol Washington White House America Lyndon Johnson library Morton Luther King Robert Caro
'Killing Eve,' S2E7: "Wide Awake" | The Recappables

The Recappables

42:43 min | 2 years ago

'Killing Eve,' S2E7: "Wide Awake" | The Recappables

"Hey Kelly, and welcome to the ringer podcast network before you get to the show, make sure you check out the ringer dot com for our extensive NBA playoff coverage leading up to the NBA finals. Also look out for twenty nineteen NBA draft guide, which now features fifty of Kevin O'Connor scouting reports. The draft guide has a first-round mock draft big board rankings from our draft experts like Jonathan Turks Danny Chow, and much more to come leading up to the draft itself on June twentieth. Once again, check out the ringers twenty nineteen NBA draft guide and Oliver NBA coverage over on the ringer dot com. Glow and welcome to the penultimate edition of three capitals, killing, you either house outs Herman and I hear as always McCague Hallo Kate this episode wide awake. Oh, yeah. I am wide awake. Oh, yeah. This really. I people keep asking me how the end of the season is, and I'm always just like it's really I know I know I'm trying not to spoil it, but I'm trying to be like, it's insane. Feel like we could be transparent and say that we do technically heavy screener of the finale, but neither of us has watched yet our on our part, we are responsible high hosts who were dedicated to the public service. We provide to the killing Fanta, but, like I am literally going home after this to watch because him. Oh my God. What an episode hanger. Yeah. We need more. Let's just get into it. It's real quick. What was your tweeting overview of what we just saw? My tweet view is if crushing to pasta dishes, and arouse all it takes a psychopathic CEO sign me up for the next six mission agreed. But unfortunately I don't think that's really. What attracted Aaron killed Sevilla Nell of it. It's part of it's part of it. You're, you're right. What's your view when the moon hits your I like a total alienated from person hood in the accompanying disregard for human life? That's the Moorea listen people bond over what people bond over psychopaths, love psychopaths, you know, if they're capable of love. But this is the match made in hell it is Alison slacking right after this episode. It was like Dewey ship. It was like, I don't not ship. It like a little bit. Bit twenty my found each other little weirdos, the union Yang of like psychopaths. So basically the point of this episode was to bring villain Allen Aaron peel in the same room and to start playing them off one another. I didn't think it was very interesting. Fake out that earlier in the season we had the ghost, right? Who we kind of thought was like villain. Els true peer slash rival. Yes. And it turns out that was a little bit of a fake out, actually. Yeah. Aaron pills way more interesting than we have in credit for. This is true. He was. Kinda just like the Dushi bad guy. I think we held his being a man on the show. I still am. But, you know, he's been more developed expected. He's definitely like the most competent, man for sure. Yeah. The men on this show need need somewhere. But he got shot. Yes. To nice. Kenny is students. Aired famously only one who can really like play with the beer rice. Right. But as pretext for this, meet up there is some plot. So we're just going to knock it out with plot. Corner stew it. So we find out what the weapon is. It's not a weapon really for it's a weapon in the wrong hands, which are the people who have any. Like a database of like just all the information you could possibly want. Yeah. It's like Cambridge analytic on steroids. So basically the goal is Mel has to get to Rome to find out what this weapon is, and who they're selling it to. She s like suck up to Aaron in order to get there or not suck up as she hit him in the face of the book, and that, apparently that did the trick. So basically she meets Aaron at this restaurant, and they have an exchange that will play like buying things. Gone. Like owning them. Looking at your collective. Guess? Afloat all kinds of things. Things that make me feel. I'm going to run come with me. So, basically as soon as villain L let's on the cheat does not feel things. Yes, she is associate path psychopath, wherever you wanna put it immediately earn peel, like come away with me really tastes like two seconds, and she clarifies, I'm not gonna sleep with you. And he's like, don't worry. I'm not into that. Don't want that which is different from a lot of the men are active, Illinois. Also, like that's I think immediately sort of confusing, it interesting to hers, like, like what kind of personality that you don't wanna sleep with me? Yeah, it's definitely it's very difficult for me to read throughout the episode. How villa Nells responding to here because he obviously see something in her, even though she reacts to their shared, temperament, very differently discuss, but she obviously, doesn't like being controlled or told what to do. Yes. And that's his whole thing, and she's clearly putting up with it a little bit 'cause she. She has to write, but I will be curious to see in future, like how what her true response to because she's kind of reacting as Billy half the time. And so it's hard and she's basically, like in character this whole time. So it's hard to see whether like she's just putting up for the job or whether she actually, is like interested in him and interested in like what his whole deal is. Yes. And before he can find that out. So she does successfully make to Rome. She's put up in this Palazzo. And she is told to look really bored, during dinner, while Erin is like vetting potential buyers, including a couple of Russian businessmen. And this is where we see Aaron's demonstration of why this weapon could actually be a weapon which will play a clip of you to do mother just before you arrive just to. You had to praise. And a packet of Howard by tank fest in the back. Impetus them into one of the many cowry county, gaps. We told you yesterday go to work late. In fact, he was spending evening with your boyfriend, Greg or the hotel, David you watch to episodes of gossip girl together, and had sex twice once at ten twenty three pm and again this morning, Greg O will stop letting you shortly. By the way, from the Knicks text messages. Jio mother daughter. He'll son do and we'll school in coop city, you'll self conscious about the size of your penis. Don't worry. It's average little inside. Moistening machine. Avenue dream about ice skating. Several notes, what is it with this show, and people who don't have their sons point continued theme? It's recurring Latif. I think knowing what he dreams about is like a little bit of poetic license. Yeah. Yes. Just attack unless like there's some sort of applic- dreamlike dream journal, or something that he's putting his ice dancing dreams into ice skating dreams into. And that's how he knows because that's gummy food app. Also. That was my final thing. I get out of the many things the peel company or Faraday, or whatever we're calling does I guess they're in the calorie counting app. Yes. You know, their bunch of different apps out there. These days, a lot of good options. And also love gossip girl, you know, left to bond over gossip girl, we have that in common with murderous Russia gazers with so much in common. So attentive listeners may have noted that all the plot this week falls to villain L because even more of a mess than usual. Yeah. So chief lesser dalits is the just it's a mess. It's an increase increasingly mess. I mean like. I mean like she has the life part, the marriages guide. But Ling the work part, also not going great. No. So what does she have going for her? Well, not much. She is being very clingy towards philadel-. Yeah. This is not seem like a promising development in their relationship. Now she's being cleaning. It also like constantly annoyed by her and like not hiding it which, again is like villain, l just a couple upsets ago. It was like, don't talk to me like that. And she continues to talk to her like that. So I'm like, maybe don't be like that would be a good idea, but yeah, she's like leaving a bunch of phone messages, like obsessing over her which isn't new but being this like. Having an open line of communication. Yeah. The fact that they can text now which we saw them do last episode is clearly, you know, a new development, their relationship, not necessarily positive one. Yeah. But basically, when the episode starts eve just like stroz into Villanova apartment. So I guess they've shared that information. Yes. Villanova's post threesome with the girls that we thought she was going to eat a lot of choice. She did not eat them, but she did like stock them at apparently bond with them, somehow because they came back and had a threesome with her. So they're leaving Eve's like obviously jealous Chilin on this weird like autumn in bed apartment that we talked about last, which, I guess there's going to be there has to be a separate bedroom because the girls had to come from somewhere. That's true. I guess there's just a casual second, bed or in the middle. I saw tweet this week. That was like, I know people who have beds in the middle of the rooms are absolute murder psychopaths and checks out, just incredibly Rex prediction in this cage. Yes. But basically, at one point during this conversation over how the room mission is going to go eve, confronts villain L about her feelings, those things you said in the meeting which parts you said, you don't want anything. You don't like anything that you're bored. Do you mean it? It. No. You don't know if you're telling the truth or not. Really? You don't feel anything. I feel things William with you. I don't find that particularly convincing. Did you I you know, I can't tell a couple times a season where Villanova's done something like when she was like crying in the MIR in Amsterdam or like just a couple of other time? She's been like very open and very emotional in regards to even I can't tell if it's real or not. I mean, I think eve has inspired motion villain L are pass also get the sense that Villanova senses. That's what eve needs to here. Yeah. Head, it's like win the girls walkout villain, L make sure to tell eve, I'm not with them when I'm with them. Yeah. Which is definitely her being very honest. Very real. But also, yeah, it is. It is what he needs to hear because eve is very overbearing jealous right now. Yeah. And evenings to be reassured that she's special even though as villain L very cruelly told her last episode. I'm the only thing that makes you interesting. A little bit code toxic. Yeah. And this starts to affect her work, because it used to be an attribute that eve is so in tune with villain. Right. We see this conversation where she's debriefing couple of different times. Actually with Carolyn. We're Caroline's asking her. What's your state of mind? However, you prepping her for this mission, you razzing her up and eve, basically just gives like the blink Meam face rate, just has no response yet. And she's kind of it's, it's hard to tell if she's just like fully underestimating villain out, or if she's just kind of like lying to carry on. I think it's probably a little bit of both, but, you know, there it's Caroline concerned about Bill Nell. And he's like, oh, she just needs to think she's in charge, which is very much underestimating villain L, if you think you're in charge eve, and I don't know. I can't tell if, if Caroline really is as out of it, as she sort of acting and sort of like just trust eve. Or if she's. Actually just kinda like knows what's happening, and it's just letting it happen. Well implied that she certainly letting some bad thing. Yeah. About to happen to eat. But before then I just thought it was interesting that we've already established that eve doesn't have to do the red tape part of the job. Right already red flag. Yeah. And she's not really doing the managing the asset part of the job. That is apparently her only responsibility. Right. So of what you Tilleke is she to 'em. I six. Yeah. Other than just like running around and like, you know, sending Ville voices. Yes. She really isn't doing much, which may be why she is probably expendable about right and did. Right. So either Caroline house, a couple of times, Kenny walks in being just precious. Kenny, as always Caroline tells us that he's been very distraught since he was laid off with knows, because I have to live with him. I know she's like since you've sacked him could do not have prevented that if you'd wanna. To guess not. I have to live with him. I know. Wait. A phrase co-habitating with your son, Kenny. So, yeah, he rolls in being Kenny and just as he is about to leave. He's like, hey you forgot your charter. He runs after her. She turns around. He's like, don't go to Rome, very serious. Some very uncomfortable. Very high camera angles just tension. Yeah. And basically, he starts to say the operation that I was switched to and Caroline. But in the. So, yeah. So clearly, he can't trust his mom with whatever this information is. And yeah I guess we talk about this later or making predictions for the next episode. His mom knows what the information is and wanted to be disclosed to eat. Right. But couple of different ways of that could go. But honestly, KENNY'S, always right. I can't believe that he's still looking out for Eve's interests. He's the best boy, even though she that. That would be terrible to him the goodest of boys. That's why so sweet. Speaking of really good boy. Yeah. Lightly less good. But Nico remains protected technically technically, but. Tough episode for Gemma. Yeah. So I don't think we thought Gemma was necessarily long for this world. Yeah. Whenever concern ever since she sat down with professor, Wani light. Yeah. Her days were numbered. They were so yeah. She villa now meets Niko Jemma in the storage unit while they're going through his things, and nothing good ever happens, and like those storage garages. No just never, they're very creepy. I don't know if you're watching dead to me on Netflix, but it's where people hide their murder weapon nothing good ever happen there. If you watch it lands for people crashed when they can't afford, actual places to live on TV. These are not space. So yes, is it showed up there. I was like somebody's gonna die. It was a question of who philadel- corners of an enclosed space. Also from the moment, villa whips out the knife, and Gemma realizes she's actually Jane endanger, a high. The only thing she says is Niko in that really. The voice, and I respect human life, and I'm not in favor of murderous psychopaths. But when shut her up, I was grateful, she's so annoying. I was like, yeah, yeah. She really is. Also, just the fact that she's there with that teeny tiny ass knife. And they're like, terrified just tells you a lot about her general vibe, we'll come back to that, in a minute, but general things, I'm Eve's work, life. Balance, when they go to Rome eve is just having this whole thing, philadel-, just like listening to her constantly, just freaks out, when she can't listen to her slit her a microphone in a role of bread, which is sip risky. Aaron peel has seen you could see anyone could see you in the literally pulls the move, which is the least subtle. He's mike. He's ten feet away, so dumb. That was not the best move. And then once she does get the mic on. She instead of going to bed is listening to and villa. No. She's listening. That's classic killing eve they're watching each other, and they know they're being wide getting off on. Yeah. Or not a little bit. So true. Basically, they have like this conference. Call threesome where evens up pleading Hugo who's like totally down for it. But also kind of like not one to look gifts gift even coworker one night stand in the mound. Yeah. And so she's got villain L in her ear. And it's just a whole thing. Yeah. It was clear to me that villa was this early coaching her through the whole time until the next morning when she wins. Hugo blesses hard takes one look at it knows exactly what is just because a player knows the game. Like thanks for the three. Yeah. Which soon for you go. Yeah. You know, it sucks to have what's what you have done unto others done T, right? Hey dude, like how hurt he is. And it's like have you ever respected woman? Once in your entire life is not. I don't think but yeah, I love how quickly Eve's coworkers see-through her bullshit like Jess is just onto her. From day one Hugo, also is like on to her and a totally different way where he just like understand relationship with villain. L. And I just love that he immediately picked up on that was like Eve's fucked up. And I have to do this. And that's exactly what she just did. And I just love it. They're just so onto her. You know, it's important to have people in your life who check your perspective. And yeah, give you some much-needed feedback. They really do. So before we get seat of the week, we have a word from our sponsors. Hiring used to be hard, multiple job sites. Stacks resumes. Confusing review process, but today, hiring can be easy and you only have to go to one place to get it done. Ziprecruiter dot com slash recap. Ziprecruiter sends your job to over one hundred of the web's leading job boards, but they don't stop there with their powerful matching technology ZipRecruiter scans thousands of resumes to find people with the right experience and invites them to apply to your job as applications. Come in. Ziprecruiter analyzes each one and spotlights top candidates. Never miss a great match. Ziprecruiter is so affected that four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate through the site within the first day. And right now, our listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free at this exclusive web address ZipRecruiter dot com slash recap. That's ZipRecruiter dot com slash ARCHE AP, ZipRecruiter dot com slash recap ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. All right. We're back. It is time for scene of the week. All right. We have a couple of candidates. Yeah. Yeah. But I think the clear winner between the both of us was what we have branded the psychopaths of it. Aaron village l just put out into the open exactly what they are, and the very different ways they have dealt with it. I could get into Cameron which usually. Do the only person in the world nothing about. Think real. Avoid. That's me. Do you ever get lonely? I'm with people. I know things about that. You don't want to talk to them. Touch them. Yeah. Do all the time. I think it's worth pointing out that the reason why Billy does not have an internet footprint is not because she's a psychopath because she's the secret identity of a Russian assassin for hire. And also because if our Kenny. Fucked up. Yeah. But I think like he also is just recognizing that she is the same kind of person that he has yet, like metaphorically. Yeah, right. On the money void. Yes. And then right after this, the exchange they both are just sitting on opposite ends of the couch and just like turn and face the front and just like these little weird like opposite psychopaths that they are. Yes. And they're both just like very childlike in very confused. But also like just kind of bonding. Yes. So errands reaction to his condition is clearly to draw an attempt to control into several any real connection and just make everything totally impartial objects object. Yes, hang, and then Villanova is suggest go sensory overload. Just immerse herself in the world and do as much things as possible in the hope of lake. Stimulating something by accident. Right. I love it. They're just so sort of confused by each other in this moment. But also, like really, relating to each other more than they relate to almost anyone else. And also right after this, Hugo and eve. Look at each other and he goes, like, do they just like team up? Like are they do we need to be worried about me to call back up. Exactly like did team up with this other psychopath, because like she suddenly has relating to him. So, yeah, I guess we'll see. But this. And then one other thing that we really liked was egos to the mental hospital. Broadmoor. Yes, that we, we saw the guy who came and gave her point presentation from earlier in the episode, but she goes to talk to him about Bill Nell and speaking of seeing through bullshit. He immediately is like most of the time when people come to me about someone else they're really talking about themselves guys like actually, like, really a professional. To her credit eve does not really put up much resistance, and they have a fascinating transparent conversation. How much do you spend? Thinking about. Must've hit. You to a relationship define relational sick. So. How things at home has been left me. Hugh. Bagging differently doing things that you normally wouldn't. Yes. To feel it size. How else Tayfield? I feel. So even more than with Hugo, who's kind of the only other person. She's really intimated what the real nature of her relationship with villa. Like this is the most open, we've ever heard her be about what's really going. I'm guess, for sure, and it's concerning but it's also sort of fascinating to see. Her be totally honest, and sort of be honest with yourself about what suddenly become like a real issue with her sort of personality, and her relationship with Bill now because it's not just I think her relationship with Bill now. It's like how she's actually changed as a person, whether she's kind of turning more towards the dark side, so to speak. Yeah. It calls back to that conversation from last season's finale, where she's saying to villain, L, I think about you all the time and this is a little less charge. A little more clinical just like let me list. Exactly how arrive my life has gotten. Yes. And before they have any time on packet, she just gets up and walks away. But it's fine. Yeah. And it's good. It's just being honest with yourself and recognizing that this is a problem. And he basically is like, I don't want you to end up here. And you know, it's the way that she leaves it, it's like that's not out of the question the moment. Yes, she leaves, then she's honest enough with herself to realize what's happening, but not honest enough to realize that she definitely should not be going to Rome, putting herself in the middle of two violence like a pass has intentionally put in the same room. Exactly. So that wasn't great. But too great. Great, great segue. I'm great at. This is Jody comer can. Oh, yeah. Our favorite segment. Oh, yeah. Not a lot of there's one operatic, murder, which obviously, we will get to. But this is more subtle. It was for Jody comer. Can we dig into ourselves he did? And obviously, we found something, of course, here's what we came up with. All right. First of all, Jodi Comber can stock me and my friend late at night, and what appears to be a serial killer way than ultimately take us both home for casual threesome before forgetting, both our names the next morning, so cruel in so mercilessly time. Yeah, Jody Comber can extract my recipe for shepherd's pie knife, point and not even write it down. Thereby guaranteeing, she'll forget the worst or sauce. That is the secret ingredient, I need you to feelings about that. Alison's the big recipes woman. I know I've never made shepherd's pie. Maybe I should have written down, what it was. I'm sure there's a good one. I lied somewhere tuna Comber can talk me through a sort of conference. Call sexting threesome with my fuck by co worker who has no idea what's going on. Definitely doesn't deserve this no matter how annoying hands, I would contest, the last part of that she definitely can Jodi Comber can make sure I know my work crush is still in love with his soon to be ex wife before she strangles me to death with the plastic bag man tough way to go. All right. P Jemma very tough. Final this is going to affect the Niko eve relationship, you know, not well, I mean, already it's already done already over how much worse can it get? I think we're gonna find out probably. Yeah. But yeah, I am worried about that. We can we can touch more on that too in our predictions for the finale. This is correct. Because we do have more of a super size fit of the weeks. And we even skipped some there were some of the episode, where I was like, all right, the stat, and then I was like, we already have too much, you know, it's in Rome, she's being bought four by the kazillionaire. Yeah, we're gonna fit God bless killing eve they really know how to use clothes. Plot device, and express the relationship between two people through, so we're going to get to that moment. But I the lounge wear continues. Oh my gosh. Just an amazing blue and white chemo. No that she just is wearing around her clutch apartment to answer her mail and stuff. I need to know about like all of her Komodos all of her just, just all her lounge for robes. I want all of it. I know she's got an Oriole streak for sure. But it's not she's never, like pajamas sat and her entire life. And I respect that this is true except for okay? The first upset of the series. Voluntarily water pajamas. Thank you, fair. She's working prison outfits. Right. That's kind of counts, I was just really interested in how she dresses when she is Billy, I do think it is distinctly a little bit different from philadel-. Yeah. Sort of, like influence, or Sheikh? Yes, we get a repeat of the of the snazzy pink furry coat. Yes. And then when she's in lunch, in the restaurant, there's a lot of jewelry and a dormant which I don't think villa del naturally goes for. But, like lots of chunky rings like a necklace just lots going on there. The genes we only get indirect shots of yet kind of at the when she walks back into our apartment. You can see like the highway scenes, but the belt yeah, they're like embellish, and they have these rainbow patches. Yeah. Very all over the place, crowded rainbow different color. I think village L in general prefer, simplicity. So it's definitely very like ostentatious and high style. But I think her. Her natural look. So this is a big moment for Herman. There's outfit in the storage locker. Is this like coordinated plaid high waisted trouser crop shirt, which for those of you listening at home, literally it right now, I am wearing a crop pattern shirt over high waisted pants, I slacked, Allison when I saw the scene, it was like you've literally warned this outfit. This is to me, what the succession of lady suits that we got last Kate. We're both being respectively, pandered great department. I was a big fan of the murderer outfit. So this brings us to Rome. Obviously, a pivotal point in the show has been villain, L intentionally buying clothing for eve power slash seduction mood. Yes, effective, maybe as effectively, Aaron like junks village L suitcase with the microphone that she was supposed to use. Surveilled him. Right. And we see this whole beautiful rack of incredibly expensive. Close were told this jacket that she wears to lunch took hundreds of hours to make incredible. It's incredible. One of my favorite. I think one of my favorite pieces in the show interesting. I was not quite sure that this was like naturally Villanova style. I agree, which is the point. I think yeah. It's like what he thinks Billy style should be. Whereas, it's like not villainess style, and it's not Billy style. Because like he's dressing her. I guess it's aired peel style. But yeah, it's, it's sort of just like be impressed by this as opposed to, like, actually enjoy this. Yes, this is also very on brand for me. But I got some hard Reynolds woodcock vibe. You're mad. I'm thread. Yeah. I'm going to remake you in my image. I'm going to. There's a weird power plan volving food there's pushback, which I kind of like in kind of, don't lie. Yeah. You're right with the belt scene where he tells her take off the belt. That's very much like, maybe you have no taste. Maybe I like my own. But yeah, you're right. He she puts on a belt with this outfit. He's like take off about. It doesn't match like very correctly. I you know didn't blouse looks great. Just talk to the pan doesn't need about. But also, there's this moment where he like, arranges her, like a painting. And like makes her stay that way. Yeah. Which obviously is just like a power move, and just to exert his control. But that's like another one where you can tell like is like, dying inside. Or she like kind of fascinated by this game again, we will see we'll see. But I, we just have another minor addition of Deekor coroner did you? Did you look of the fit of the week, Palazzo is incredible? Yeah. It's so it's both like insane and opulent baroque. And there's all this super period detail that has been preserved and restored. But then it's also just outfitted like teak hotel, or something, it's got those, you know, muted low to the floor. I feel like that bed could be any Westin. Yeah. That's true. That's true. It's interesting combination. We knew that Rome would like come through for us, and it really did. Great set design, also, very minor detail. But I did love in the otherwise very shabby hotel that Hugo, and either using to spy on them. Just great wallpaper. Very geometric. Listen hotel room in Rome is still going to be more chic than hotel room anywhere else. That is absolutely true. And we already talked about Villanova's apartment, but she said, we get more details about choices every week. Yes. Yes, so Caroline light episode. That's the only reason that this, this next category is pretty late this week. This is the quote of the week rat holding a can of coke award. Not much Caroline. But I think two to three of these are still exactly like she's just so officiant, using her time onscreen he's still gives us gems like. At the safe would is gentlemen. Running out of good safe woods. Then there's another play on that later. We're gonna use that in a sentence grieving. I actually though the problem was that it's just like to normal of a word right, same. I know I thought that, that would be it would be very easy to say. Oh, you're. Just not like count on countering any gentleman, which is probably true. And then Caroline also, you know is giving instructions. And she goes, she mustn't kill Erin. I mean I hate to be strict, but she really mustn't kill anyone. You know, a great time to said that would have been before villa del actually killed some. Yeah. Yeah, we're like oh for two on that note. You didn't have a problem with this last week Caroline, I don't know what changed in the meantime. And finally, we have eve just chats with the dude who turns out to be a triple murderer of women at the criminal hospital. And when she is informed these killed three women she just responds. He could kill the shit out of me. Honestly, I get it. I get it. I mean I get it but, like not about him. Right. We've heard any talk. We've talked sensibly about who can violently murderer. You're right, you're right. We can only have one great week for the killing extending university. It was it was packed. So I think we need to start with there was a really essential piece of investigative journalism publish this week. It was in the Atlantic. It was written by a minimal and it is called, I broke breakfast Americans. Eat a narrower variety of foods reckless than anyone else. It doesn't have to be this way. So last week, we had the great quote, where Caroline's like breakfast. It's just eggs all the time why who decided? And this is that quote in article form. Well, it tells us who decided it does. And it turns out, it's like some combination of big cereal and the industrial revolution. Clio just Caroline is a profit. She is a thought leader we all pay attention to her, and this article and eat a broader spectrum of foods. Yeah. Record a lot of breakfast discourses week. I think it can all be traced back. Caroline and her air pods. Also this week, the BAFTA 's again, why are all these award shows still happening? I don't April early may obviously overjoyed, but so the Baptist TV awards, which I just learned are separate from their film. Happened this week and killing eve basically swept. Yeah. Three trophies best drama series best actress for our girl Jody and best supporting actress for a Shah, maybe the most exciting ones to me, personally was field as I was just really excited that it American TV award culture. Obviously, Sandra Oh's away, more known quantity, because all her years on Grey's anatomy. So even though I would say they are roughly equal at Jody's roles actually show ear. Right. Sandra's the one who it's easier to campaign forces. She got the nomination. She won the Golden Globe. Right. It's just really cool to see that, like reverse because Jodi is British. So I'm sure that over there. Do you think this is going to kind of set the tone for the Emmys campaign this year? Like pushing Jody and Fianna, maybe, I just, I never know what to say for the Emmys because they're right like five thousand shows. Right. I would just like to observe that the ladies of killing eve, Phoebe Waller bridge Jody covert Fiona Shaw. Coordinated their outfits. They did in the most excellent. Like they were all wearing like single colors. Yeah. Long trails and interesting shoulder cover right? Yeah. They were like they almost like, like how a girl group dresses in the same way where they don't match, but their coordinated they look good separately. And they don't look stupid together. But like you can tell they all like planned it was very angel. Just looking at the image of all three of them holding their weird wars. Perfect warms. My heart. Less less warmed by exciting, but we do need to address it. We do so. Yeah. Shortly after we recorded last week before last episode Taylor swift had his Entertainment Weekly cover that came out talked about a lot of her pop culture interests. Some of them were very basic like s few game with Ron's. However, huge Phoebe Waller bridge fan and huge killing fans. She said, I'm really obsessed with TV while our bread. She makes you crack up, shocks, you in breaks your heart all in the span of a few minutes in that show which she's talking about fleabag seconds comes out in it's great. Thank you for doing the plug new. I was going to out. And then she also talked about killing she said, I don't think we've seen such a lovable psychopath. God, it so intoxicating we've only ever seen that kind of endearing badness in men until recently when we started to see female characters that are able to break through the constant likability challenge. We find ourselves in shot to the PR person who wrote that. Exactly. What did teatime crossover seriously? But, you know, I like to think that really does love killing because everyone loves, killing eve, Sam, I have no trouble believing the Taylor swift identifies with Bill great stuff, and she actually talked about it again, on Ellen where she Allen killing eve, and, like, yeah. Killing his great. So yeah, Ellen has definitely not watch more than five minutes of Khili or life, feels right, L. It's got a lot going on. But yet real quick go back to fleabag season to seventeenth. Yes, actually, once the Sepah drops, it will have been out. You're right several days. You're right. So if you're listening to this, and you haven't already watched all fleabag season two three times through what's wrong with right? Six episodes, half hour each burnt through that on a Saturday morning. I burn through half of it while I was waiting for this podcast recording to start see very doable. So, yeah, that's or you could wait like a couple of weeks until killing us over. And then you can like move on and recover from your killing eve. Post killing equipped with sleep back season to you just have a lot of options. Do I will have a piece about it up on the ringer dot com? I guess, tomorrow after we're recording. This just incredible show following another incredible show. Great stuff. And we only have one episode left. We do in this action packed season. Do what do we think's going to happen? Okay. So we sort of set the tone for a couple of days earlier, first off, KENNY'S warning very ominous. What do we think his operation has to do with what is currently happening even Bill? Now, how do we think that's gonna play out? I mean, I definitely think Caroline's gonna try to not murder eve but have eve murdered. So you think she's in on it. Yeah. No, I definitely think it's part of the, you know, it's already established. She's not having Eva stylish, a paper trail, which makes it much easier when right ruin someone under the bus. Okay. So you think she is working with whatever operation. Kenny is, is working with. Or maybe the operation is a sort of internal affairs type situation. Right. Which would feel very suited to head interests. Yes. Yeah. Okay. So I mean we know my six is corrupt. I agree. I think it seems like Carolyn will end up working against I just think we are overdue for some kind of revelation of. Yeah. Carolines intentions, we literally straight doing in that prison. That was that was a season a half ago. Basically, you're right. So, okay. So then how do we think that our news, like Pathak buddies are gonna are they going to team up on the normies like Hugo's afraid of or do we think it's going to stick with eve? I think it's too obvious for them to team up. I agree. I just think like they wouldn't have Hugo literally turn and be like, do you think they're writing also like they don't have that much in common? The only thing they have in common is that they don't feel things like normal humans on the other hand, what is incentive to work for him. I six right? Money is part of it. But obviously Erin has way more of that than they do. And eve is part of it. But then their relationship is on the rocks. Right. I think we're going to go for is like, maybe a double double cross for villain, FOX over both my six and Aaron peel or just a fake out where it seems like she goes at my sex, and that or with Aaron peel and then eventually helps out eve. Yeah. But do you think just, you know, it's fun predictions? How will things play out? Post Jemma murder. Do we think that that will affect ease relationship with villain? Whether like it'll just be like Nicos out, anyway. I think villa was super right. That eve would care if she murdered her totally Karenin and is not going to care when she murders, the right Motiwala, fair person. I'm worried that like Niko gonna like call in some thirties. I this is kind of the first person that Villanova has murdered where it can be traced back. Exactly who she is. And like we like Niko knows about Illinois. He knows who she is. He has all this information. Bauer knows that she's working with eve. So this is kind of like the first one where like he could technically call up some thority, like actually, and there's not that thing of, like, oh, this person is clearly criminal. This is Cole. I'm a little worried about that. I feel like Ville might be on the run like the end of the season, maybe with eve, maybe without eve, maybe evil be like in jail for whatever. Yeah. Care overdue for villain. L has broken totally with her former employer. It is towed, right, new territory. We need that to happen with eve as well. Maybe they'll go on the run together because even kind of breaking bad. Full like generis targe area on us. Yeah. I think maybe concentrate hasn't had a lot to do. She's just going to take over for Constantine. Yeah. I would be down with ending the season with, like, even on the run together psychopathic girlfriends, and Caroline Constantine is like mom and dad on their trail. Yeah. Yeah. I'd be into that. That seems like a good, a good, not just the image of Bonnie and Bonnie. Yeah. I'm hoping for that fingers crossed. All right guys, we will see you on Sunday for our final installment of this season. I'm sure we'll have a lot of time pack until then. Thank you so much for listening.

Eve Caroline KENNY'S Hugo Allen Aaron peel Rome murder Bill Nell Billy style Villanova Villanova Erin NBA Aaron peel Alison Niko Jemma Herman Jodi Comber Illinois Kate
Episode 245: Nicki Minaj & Leslie Jones

RuPaul: What's The Tee with Michelle Visage

55:32 min | 1 year ago

Episode 245: Nicki Minaj & Leslie Jones

"So we have Nikki manashe up in less. Yes hey hi now. Before we went and broke for the show earlier today you said he was going to go get some to eat and write a rap to write this rap real quick how women you can just write a rap wherever anywhere anytime GAZ. Because when I was a waitress I had to Force myself to do that so I would be like on my feet for twelve hours a day and do tonight so when rab worn idea. We'll come to my mind. I would write it on my little waiters pad so now. I'm used to having to write jot. Something down real quick so my first eight bars of that little wrap. My managers sent it to me while I was in the car here and I wrote the first eight lines in the car just really really quickly and a few minutes and now when we break here. I'm going to go off. Cnn charges at eight. More lines right or do you put it like in a voice note. I do both but this one I I actually typed it in my notes but I do that as well like olive recorded in my voice. No just because I want US sometimes. Remember my melody because we've all tried to remember something and then later we can ever remember a dream and you gotta remember that. Yeah I do that now. So right down my dreams you know. Where were you waitressing where lobster? No my God. You have different ones that. Let's talk about the Cheddar biscuits. Don't get sat had abyss when people come to ask them for more and more frigging biscuit. Three free is just my child to eat seafood. I I can't for the biscuits with the crab leg fiesta. Whatever the fuck clap leg. Which one did you work at? Which many I got from all on my work and I worked I worked in a cop sitting in the Bronx up there. Jeff was one of the men of color. Yes of course. Yeah I get it I get it. That's where the co-op come girl so now wh- you eat the food or how long after you started working there. Did you stop eating the food? I never stopped eating the food this day. I still love her lobster order while I'll get fees but you know with my favorite ultimate phase but my one of my favorite things is the Cajun Chicken Pasta. Okay so good Hasian chicken seafood place. Yeah but because really season well but you can mix it so you can put like you can create your own three. You could do occasion chicken pasta. I love the Fried Shrimp and I love the shrimp Scampi. So sometimes I'll do those. Three things shrimps kept his boss. So far for red lobster oxnard really eight. Oh yeah far. The one that was in my town gone. Yeah well you know a year. I'm been in years George wanted. I don't know maybe Gulf George wanted to go to red lobster because he had seen the commercial. He's Australian so he'd never seen or heard of it before he saw the commercial wanted to go. Shrimp vests my shit swearing fast. I know yeah well he we went and of course he did not like it because it was. It wasn't what he thought it was gonNA market. This is twenty five years ago. He was his SS boozy backed into I worked at a red lobster on. I certainly did. I don't know this is one. This is one of two real jobs. I've ever had probably a week from bussing tables at a week and this is in Atlanta. What was chauffeured road? It was probably it was off a Shalford south road in Atlanta. And I I worked there for a week. It was hard. It was hard lesson. Tales vary are working. I don't think people realize that and we do our. Yeah well the hard part for the being. A waiter is very hard because you have to deal with the people and their attitudes and have you got a little attitude. Yes average your attitude. Yeah I equal explosives and although when they didn't give me no tape. I will have more of attitudes out there and because I'm out that's how sweet so people would not give you a tip. Sometimes did you walk up to say. Hey My name is hi. My name is Anita How in I would say like the government name? Yes Ma'am of the day the Fisher of the day Blah Blah Blah but the coaster on the table. Nice sometimes and sometimes people would like themselves be means you just because they cheap ass they wanna tip you go. So how did it come to be that you worked at all these different red lobsters? Why the important question but nope I if you worked at several of them. We don't work around would well. I kept getting fired and the thing is okay so when I literally I actually snuck into working at the at the Regal Park Location. I thought well maybe if I just lay low. They will remember that I was that I was working in the valley stream. Maybe no one here will remember me and sure enough. I saw them like stars talking breath and they started whispering and as soon as they found out I was going. But then we'll coop city being that it was one of my old managers that my best friend she you know. She's really cool where she begged him to give me a job and he gave me another chance. And then I 'cause the customers asked Obama and when the restaurant going to give me back my because they didn't me and then I got fired again. So did you have a lot of regular jobs in your actually I did. I was a customer service REP for a long time for a phone company and I was in office manager like literally on Wall Street was the longest job you've had. I think Between waitressing an customer service 'cause I just full-time because at that time it was good money like it was cash money. You know I was making when you do that like you can make a lease at that time. You could make at least five hundred dollars a week. There was some girls making thousand dollars. Cash Girls Nikki. Nice girl yeah the really nice one but I was excited. Because I'm like I'm stacking my money. I'm more money than everybody. I'm like eight nineteen years old. We're all money though. I bought a BMW really when my money? Well I got a little settlement. I think from like an accident so Jacobean mind. That's right it was only a couple. Dow and I had money because of my waitressing to put down into then make the payments. Dole's were really expensive payments and contracts. My carnal was one hundred and something dollars a month and my insurance was twelve. Hundred dollars in annual. That's money never ever lost my car ever and that's because you are under twenty five. Is that right is that why Yup Yup expanded with an expensive car. Yeah so when you first started making real money. What was the first thing you bought first extravagance I I WANNA. I bought a Range Rover. That was the first extravagant was one of the first extravagant things. But the I don't know if people notice but one of the other extravagant things I did was by all my best friends. Cars to in hindsight was that a mistake one of them the was talking about COPPA but most for the most part no because these were all. My girlfriends are my childhood friends. So they've literally known me. Since I was a kid I bought you know like literally like Mercedes Benz to range over a BMW cash for more and they help others dad to take care of the insurance and Ryan paid and I even pay their insurance for the first year guard. I I do that but yeah because we talked about this a lot here on this podcast where people who have made a huge impact on the world and start making money. How do you reconcile the old friendships? You know because a lot of the old friendships are still struggling. And you know how do you keep? How do you keep that relationship from deteriorate? I can't say that we're yes I got you. My friends have been about life for so long that they're more like family so we're the type of friends like weaken you know 'cause each how but they know. I Love Them. Follow is better for them so I don't really have an issue. Where do they come asking for money? Sometimes but not really know to be honest. I always offer my friends and my family money like every time I go around. I'll have cash and just give everybody money. 'cause I don't want them. I don't want people to have to as me because I think maybe they might feel bad to have to ask so for the most part when I go around like my hood like in Queens. I just walk around with cash. Give out money. But that's been for the last ten years. I literally just said though this year I have to switch it up because now I have to stop letting my family you know my own family and I realize that people sometimes people can start thinking job negated to do it so now I have to say no learn how to say no which was very difficult for me to learn how to say no and not feel guilty. I used to always feel guilty. Like I shouldn't have all this but I worked my ass off and so it's like what the Hell is wrong with me but I wouldn't do a lot of guilt for a very now when you first got famous and became so super successful. Did you start going to therapy or anything like that to sort of deal that you wish you did? I wish I never too late baby. Yeah I think maybe I will because I mean I don't know The industry hit me like a mack truck. I didn't know what to expect. It was right at the beginning of like social media and twitter so I was able to read all the negative things like an it scars. You like your human on Eve. No matter how much you say. You don't care it does take a toll on you so I think it made me put up like this defense mechanism from our career. Which looking back now. I wish I didn't take it on as much younger but So yeah never did officially the therapy but I would love to and I may like I think I did one session with this one man and it was really good but it was in New York and when I came to Elliott just never followed up with anyone but You live out here in La. Yeah I live in La. I'm moving back though I think this year to New York to the places I guess I guess actually I will be but I don't know I wanNA just have like set up shop in New York now. I've been here forever. Well you know finding therapists is not the easiest thing you have to audition them and you have to find the people who you have a connect where you feel safe enough to tell your secrets and stuff but I think I talked to a lot of people who Who have become their position. Has Changed a rap. Drastically and then reconciling the old self with the new self is. It's a struggle. What was the by product of that struggle? Did you like just cut? Call people custom out or did you Egg Houses did UTP HOUSES. What was the byproduct of that chain already? Fum A very aggressive neighborhood and then I went to high school. I was able to tame that because I was going to school for theater but when I came in the business I like I had to be that very hood grow all over again. I think the byproduct was just making me. And plus it's a and plus. I'm a rapper so I was always around men. It made me always feel like I have to like. I guess I had my shoulder. I have to make sure that. Jaylen thing job touch Mueller do it with me or like I always was very very big on like not being Sexually promiscuous because I I knew that once that would have happened I would lose respect from these male rappers that I loved and so what that was one of the things that I made my business not to do in this industry and that's why I can still but it but I think it just hardens me. It would make me like just be super aggressive and then when I look back like why did I just speak like that? Why did I you know just assume this person was coming for the jugular? Or you know what I'm saying. I could have been just more calm but instead I was like oh I'm back then. Southside Shmegegge our younger exactly. I didn't know a lot and it's not like a lot of people. Have parents in this industry like their parents. Like I didn't have that I learned everything myself. And there's no rule book on how to be a rapid. That's why I think that should be for all young people in show business or reality. People get famous really fast. There should be some type of therapy agency where you go and you. Aren't you train yourself? Are they train? You how to deal with these kinds of situations otherwise you just do it on your own but they happen all the time. It happens to l free time at you from South Jamaica Queen. Yeah is that a rough neighborhood. Yeah it is like is the top people and this is the truth. Any man in my neighborhood that I would see was either on crack or selling crack. Ooh Yeah that's that's like a and literally right on Mike WanNa like I would walk and as and when we were younger we walked to the store by ourselves and so it wasn't a big deal but I'm just saying like there was no filter. What was happening in the neighborhood? It was just like I remember. Like walking by people seeing their crack full out their hands them picking it up and likes running along normal. You know. I've never done crack before that actually for real because real has done every I've done everything. But you know what back in the seventies in the late seventies I did do freebase some coke which is the same thing right at the same thing. I think it's cane producers shaking his head like any. No you know no no damn crack cocaine under different cocaine and crack cocaine. You know cooking cook differently. One is like one is like the fast cheap version and the other is the old fashioned way who doesn't change US free base it on what smoked it is smoking. Also it is crap and that yeah it is would go hunting a pipe and smoke. It is that you heat it with the thing. You hit a pipe. Yeah Yeah so. How did you avoid getting involved with all that because my father was on drugs at the time? And My mother used to put it in our heads. Don't ever do this. Don't ever do that in fact and this is this is the truth. I didn't even know how to smoke weed until like a few years ago because I wouldn't even touch a cigarette like I had never gotten drunk and one of the one of the things I think and people used to tell me it was like you need to get high. You need to get drunk and now I realize why people use to say that to me. Because I didn't have anything to calm me down. I didn't know anything about going. And get a pill or taken anything so I just was like either was while my natural happy high on my natural rage like what about but my mother. She wouldn't even coast around us. Shoot no cigarettes no drinking no nothing so I just went on the forest side of your possibly then eventually being an industry and being by myself like being older and living away from my mother probably like in the last I would say maybe six seven years I started like actually drinking and you know what I'm saying I now I can small or getting high or whatever but it just didn't turn me on. It wasn't something that I ever wanted to do. Great Yeah Yeah when's your birthday? December eighth to cemetery. Yeah Oh vegetarian. Vegetarian Science Virgo Scorpio Scorpio. Yeah I guess you get along really well with with yeah no. L. NFL now yeah. Scorpios Vegetarians and Virgos THEY. We're not we're not matching when actually you know the fact is Scorpion. Sorry I'm putting myself Virgo Torres and capricorn. So there's you know the Earth Science I get along with Capricorn. Don't get along with tourists though really no. No I'm male. Male tauruses are the worst thing on the war very Jealous headed stubborn so now okay now a Nika Nika. I love that name. So did you always know how to Rep- I know that you went to the school of Performing Arts in which one which audience juilliard. Yeah I used to have gradually are every day I think always had in me. That my one of my next door neighbors was a girl a little bit older than me and she was. Irap and I kind of wanted to impress her one day. I just wrote this really horrible rap and I went on and I started saying Iraq and it was so done. It was cookies. The name chocolate chip is the flavor. Suck mustache like a Cherry lifesavers and I really what I was doing. Some were actually like that even means the other myself. I go jerry. It was so dumb and I was all embarrassed for years and years after it was a whole rap that I that I did. Did you grow up loving rock? Who your favorite rapper's growing up. I loved like saw in pepe like because they were from Queens so at that time it was just like Oh my God like I just loved the fashion and their boldness and all that good stuff when I was kid you know and I was like in that. L. Coup J. Around the way girl with bamboo airings and he's from Queens to so. That's that's around the time when I was in love with would hip hop slick rick area. Oh my goodness. We've got nick here. We're GONNA take a quick break. We'll be right back after this. You know let me some squarespace. Gile they'd be making them website. They do they make great website easy to do we drop in in dragon they platforms and all that stuff. Hey guys out. There should get you a website. You should because it when you're ready to purchase you can get ten percent off with the offer code ru that squarespace.com offer code. Are you wait? What's the slick album adventures in? What's yours in because you know everybody talks about Slick Rick but I don't know anything about the great adventures young yelling and also he was like almost like a fashion onto with patch make he was with Dougie fresh. I know that I know that about Dougie. Fresh six minutes Dougie one. Yeah so what makes a good rapper. Because you are really fan tastic of your own rhythm you've created your own Vinick style and cadence is so beautiful. I love it What do you think makes a good rapper? A good what happened to me. I like it when they are multi dimension no In their flow. Mom like with me. I always try my best not to give you the same flow more than one. I always try to be spontaneous and exciting on the track I I believe that is a good a good. Little humor is always good. I think of a adult. Rapper should be able to be versatile. You should be able to spit US along. That make people cry may make people turn up I think and in this day and age I think it's important Especially for females to to to have the confidence enough to write their apps like I always thought in the beginning in the beginning of my career. My whole thing was now man's ever GonNa Bite my rap. You know because I just I had heard I had heard that that was like the norm and I want. I thought I was smart and I was like well. What can you write that? I can't write down like that. Was My whole vibe coming into it so I think you know whenever you U. Penn your own thoughts. That's all to me. I love that because then I'm not only just blowing in love with the words I'm falling in love with the person in the way the mind works just so All of those great things and of course I mean in this day and age. You gotTa make a song because like you you can come in and spit hard and spit. Spit bit on other people's records while the time but you also have to know how to go in studio and create on your own at some point that that is what shows maturity than of the artists. And what made you? When did you realize that you could sing? Did you always sing? Well I don't. I don't sang lesbian clear. I can I can tune but I will say I always loved singing because my mother used to always play Diana Ross and stuff in house and she will play baby face so I would always my mother's hanging around the house and that's how we would like play with each other and engaged. We like she would always make me sing and stuff and then I just started doing Like hooks and choruses for people around my way when they go to the studio and that and that's how I got into this thing in part what died are also we. We also have the time and the SUPREMES SUPREMES era and because my mother has a little tiny boys at that time and she's wore she was online Diana Ross but she never did resemble Chaka Khan people say that Have you worked with her? Never but But I love her and it's a compliment when people say that because I mean she's beautiful go. Does your mother live out here in New York in New York everyone. All of my family lives in New York. That's yeah that's why I want to go back now because Not to be crude or anything but you have a lot of money. Oh I'm mark you don't have to say anything about you have a lot of money and so. I'm just always curious about how do you how are people able to negotiate the crew back home and the family members we talked about this earlier and your own life that you have worked hard and deserved. And you have earned. It must be a weird way to negotiate that I. I know it's hard to speak on because you don't want hurt. Nobody's feelings I don't know it's weird. 'cause I think I Nikki Minaj. Persona is more of like flashy and stuff and I don't know but I think my will solve is so much more down to Earth so it doesn't I don't notice I don't know I just feel very regular I feel you feel you. Well you have so much you've given us so much and you have so much more to give so excited about wearing. Nicki Menaj is going and everything that you are a bad ass. Don't ever forget it thank you. There are not many rappers at can spit the way you spend your pop song. The way do movies like you do. Don't ever forget who Nikki motherfucking. Staying you Shell Manat guys for having me 'cause you move warlike obviously. I know you know that journey. I con but I'm talking about like when I say I have been mesmerized for I'm talking like your whole career my whole career that I can remember and always watching the drag ratio and it just bought so much fun to my life and excitement for so many years and I'm an aunt. Just want you to know that like it's my pleasure to be here with you. Guys honestly thank you so we're going to get you back out on the judges panel. We're going to go to break right now so we will talk to you in just a few minutes with us with US thinking. Oh we'll be right back with Leslie. Joan yes hey. Michelle was for supper. Cashew chicken love is cashew chicken. Telling you I have been an addict to Blue Apron. Ever since it started. It started kind of out of necessity for because I was out of town a lot and Dave needed to cook for the girls. But now it's really David and Lola and Lola's always with boyfriend so he's cooking for his damn cell so now Cook Oh no not at all and because the blue apron he now at least can follow what the recipe says and do it the right way health is personal but no matter what it looks like issue tastes good and that's why. Blue Apron wants to help you create a mealtime routine that works for you one. That's not centered around fad diets or diets of the moment but an enjoyable long-term approach to eating you can create a personalized plan. That works for you with Blue Apron's ever-changing mix of plant forward vegetarian conscious Mediterranean diabetes friendly. Ww approved and five hundred calories or less options. They're all there. We use blue apron for three meals a week and I wouldn't change a thing. Lola's about to go off to college in the fall. Yeah we're still going to get blue apron. Yeah because it's delicious. You can like it just said you can work around your health. Convenient girl is the most amazing part so convenient. The box shows up to my door in my case every Tuesday. I believe. And it's out there you bring it in you unpack everything. It's all set up. You have the knickknack bags with like the sauces. You know and then you just you have the protein separated and then all you need is the pan the oil you choose to cook in or not if I use. Banish that whatever it is I'm telling you it is so easy. Forget looking at food on instagram now. My husband's actually taken time to to plate my Lola's meal and make it look beautiful and enjoy it. And when she's gone he's going to plead his own meals or heard that leap pictures because we blew in the hard parts are done. Cooking isn't a burden anymore. In fact it's actually really fun to learn New Kitchen. A big one that my family loves so every time it comes up on the choices is the Pimento burgers. See You make a burger obviously. Don't eat meat and there's a you make this great cheese and you mix it with. I think it's Mayo. And then you put these fresh Pimentos in there. They go ape shit every time. Those burgers are on their side by. I've ordered them every single time. Eating does not have to be about deprivation. Don't compromise on flavor or suffer through these boring meals embrace whole ingredients and eat with all of your senses. Check out this week's menu and get sixty dollars off when you visit blue apron dot com slash ru. That's blue apron dot com slash. Are you blue apron? Feed your soul. Well we got Leslie Joe's here now Leslie. Jones been cast members. Tony Lives since two thousand sixteen. Which means if I do my math correctly which I don't and I won't fifteen thousand two thousand fourteen thousand fourteen so you through my mouth all the way I'm much. How long does that? What does that five five thousand five seasons and she's with us here on the podcast now. You're no stranger you know. Stranger to the sort of radio for your father was what K- K Jail H I remember Cora's Stevie wonder you know yes I think he. I don't think he owns it anymore. I'm not sure. But he's still exists. It I think so. I think they still exist but he was always on the radio. He's electric Engineer. Your father yes. Dj Energija. Yeah he's so. You grew up with music everywhere. Yes you remember the first unit of music that you owned like your. I don't I don't know how old you I don't care how old you fifty one sixty eight so you had forty five eight. Yeah she's sixty eight DAMN WORLD. Look good girl sixty seven. So what was the first Forty five that you owned. Oh that is so funny because I was thinking in my head. I own forty-five Rupaul. Like my room. I was so into music. That in my closet call myself on my closet and I had a net and you know how you spray that IRIDESCENCE. Your birthday is a net okay. That wasn't the reason the PSYCHEDELIC thing. A net netting right and then I would put the hits of the week in the net. That's how my involves. I was with music now. The first thing that I can remember is please remember what I told you to forget by the Tavern Tattoo. Virus by heart remember. Uh what I told you. Yeah to further big hits them now. Most people out there remember vars. As Saturday night fever soundtrack to Gabbay show was fever selling based baby. Pay More than a woman. More than jet is now the. Bj ABC's Vars. Did It on the soundtrack? Yes that I didn't know that they did so. Music was a big thing in your family. Yeah I love it so it was so what was the divorce. The first is it must be missing it. Yeah must be an angel. Yes I remember that. But you're right more than a woman more than a woman and you know the one of the virus Think was chucky or a bubba was married to Lola Falana. Did you know that no? Yeah it was a BUBBA. Chunky ought to be it was. It had a weird yeah. It was a we chubby. Chubby Chubby Chubby Hubby of ours wanted to be Lola. Falana sober you did just like like Dianne. Carrol Jaffe Baker type. Well you know. She's still with us. Wow look good. She looks gorgeous ice their videos of her on Youtube. Of course there are also the videos of her Faberge Tigress ads. So you were here in La when the radio station was happening. Get well yeah. Ktla per term about eighty two. Something like that. Because he was in the service in the military he was in military then he went from there to to the. To radio's that'd be an electric Engineer. That's what he learned in the military. Yeah you remember when they used to send people to the army to go to college. That's right that's what he did. So I always say milling Terry intact. Yeah I meant Interior Secretary. He was in the military where he learned a skill. Nice move to La and he got this job at the radio station. I'm just I'm just always curious about What era was he working at? Because I'm trying to figure out where music was climbing. Eighty two from eighty two so it was Bama Jama. Yeah bad Ma'am Jam and it was a Yarbrough and peoples. Don't you thought that was the? Sos Time yes it is very SOS produce. That was Lonnie Simmons. Who did all the gap band's museum really he was Lonnie Simmons produced all the gap band's Music Music Time Freak? So he he'd he did The yarbrough and peoples thing but Eighty two is a great year. It was a awesome year. I just remember moving from Memphis and I knew so many like you know the bark as yeah we knew we knew like prints being all the press you know like when. I got here the California. They didn't know some of that stuff they knew about George Clinton the flashlight but when I played some bark as I was like what does that I. Yeah what. How do you not notify. K surprises me because L. as in brick james and Oliver wasn't like I don't know if you remember this when Rick Jane's imprint use to compete with each other. Oh yeah absolutely and I won. Prince Want Rick was on them. No he was on. In fact Rick James said that Prince got the idea for the girl group from him. Yes and that's how that whole they were friends for awhile almost like a biblical true. They were friends for a while and then they competed friendly and then he turned turned ugly. Because remember I got the girl groups? Then they got the band. Yeah I think he stone yeah. And then he had a revolution yes the remember three guards vanity. Six just beat out in. I don't know how vanity six beat Mary Jane Girls. Oh I have no idea. But then he's six only had one huge. James Marriage anchors had a couple of days. They had all night long in my house handyman s and they had there was another. Oh Mary Jane know that this is the thing. They came up with the style. You remember the baby socks in love with the love sucks. Nothing says I'm Jay Moore. Yes there may invade this baby with the hill I went to swap meanest. Oh baby socks really. Yeah I stole baby and I got caught and you know my mom caught me. Yeah because I forgot my mom put stuff in my yours. Yes he goes where you get these wrong. Yeah I ain't no money. Yeah where are you going to bring them back? No but she beat my ass. She was that kind of now. She's like do y'all be still nothing you gotta steal. Some and I told her I was with my cousin. Vicky and I couldn't be with my cousin Vicky for a long time. Yeah she thought Vicki had made me. And you know this under because you knew your mother wasn't GonNa buy them for you. Go sorry child but these are for horn. Yeah and you you wear a baby. Why would you come right here with all the way up? Yeah with the lace edges is. I love it with a pair of Powell. My God is my goodness Horsh so did you. Were you that kind of girl? Would you wear that kind of stuff given the chance? No I was a Jock I was a jock now. When a hang out with my cousin Vicky I would dress up. She would be dresser. Where's Vicky today? I have a tattoo. She's in Memphis now. You can see. She's in jail. No no no no uh-huh but she was but this all happened in Memphis. You know. This happened in California and she was out here visiting Vicky now she lived out here before me. Oh and this is so crazy. 'cause we lived in side of of. Lynnwood my Dad. We had to move to the hook. Part of Where is Lynn Woods by the airport? Lynnwood is lynwood Compton Watts. Okay so you come through watch. You'RE GONNA get right to Lynnwood in Compton right so it's kind of near the airport right if you jump on. Yeah I guess that's like West Chester West show Yeah I mean really kind of Long Beach Boulevard. Oh Yeah Yeah. So we're in Hollywood California right now. Do you go back over there. Do you have friends still over there? You know I've I've lived in Kelly so long added leave. Kellyanne to two thousand fourteen to go to SNL. Yeah so it's so weird to come back to Cali California to meet now feels like a boyfriend that I haven't really experts that I haven't really set up my differences something. That's what it feels like. Every time I come to Kelly just have such mixed emotions like I noticed. Place this place now my home anyway. Yeah Yeah and then you see familiar probably go. Oh God I remember I remember when I oh I remember that I was coming here like I lived in North Hollywood and Santa Clarita on the freeway and so many times. I've been on our free and I'm like. Oh my God that's the one seventy I'm a guy that drake and so if you look back on all the places you live. Where are the Happiest Memories? New York Memphis L. A. That's a good question. All of them. I have good memories for all of them. I guess I say my most time in. La saw have to have a balance of good and bad. Yeah if they lived in Denver to know yes. I went to college for four Collins. We call that for Joan. Hi Joan Collins Offer Joe Jones because Jones. Yeah I went to college. Basketball was oh. And what was it? What college is that was Colorado State issue? Yeah and so you have good memories. There is a lot of white folks there right. Lots of why folks I learn how to be alone or you know how to live by myself and I also learned that. I was a comedian. They're your friends. I'm here for comedy. They're really that's why I you know how you go and fight. Well are we saw. I was just fun to be around your friends. Just laugh at you both in when you go to a whole new set of people and these people are telling you that you funniest L. Yeah and my friend. Anita that I met there. She saw me a photo contests. I didn't know she just shoes. Like I don't know if you noticed about yourself but you're really funny and she's like I signed up for this contest miss. Why would you do this because I think that you need a little push? Yeah and I was like I've I don't WANNA I don't I don't know what to do. And soon as I touch the MIC Rupaul. I knew I knew. And we're there was nineteen eighty seven eighty seven. And how did you come up with material? Talked about my uncle talked about my uncle and my uncle Qi's father. Yes precisely the USA stutter. Oh Ohio he say off with us. Yes I love Uncle G. I know uncle genius wealth and he was just so sweet. Yeah and so. Why Memphis is that where your mother and father's people are from my dad's people are from Memphis and my mom was born in California. Now I don't know because we didn't really what her side of the family not. My Dad kept us from the evil. They were was a whole story. You know my mom. My Mom's mom. He had left her and her brother on a corner To specific from there and her sister took care of them yeah on Winnie on and it's interesting though these stories like that with families. And how did you guys talk about this at all? No I just knew about my mom. Never talked about her mom and I went with her when I was young. I remember because we went to California because my dad was like okay well. We're going to go see her side of the family. My Dad was like don't like you be here like He. He just like he knew they were and I remember. We went to go see her mom. And this is such a faint memory but the reason I remember. It's because my mom was so upset so she was so scared and I've never felt fear of my mom and we were sitting there and she was really scared and this woman comes out. She has white gloves on very clean. Very misdee- hat and everything. And she was like. How are you an net My your mother got your name from me. I'm your grandmother was like I don't know who the fuck you are you. My grandma grandma big Mama. Chia Memphis my mama. Smells like I don't like I don't like this. She got I was upset and I was like. Why are you like yeah like I didn't I don't like her? She got like I could tell that she had her fill in that way. It wasn't a good visit. I just I was just like let's go never saw this woman again but I do remember when she died. My mom really broke down to a we was. Yeah for Oprah era. You know you just talk about that. My mom was very concerned about us. Just being good like a well minded kids. Yeah she didn't. She was the most positive woman she knew what to put me in A. She just wasn't like that. Yeah and she was like I used to always say people. Just run over you. She was very sweet. Yeah very sweet woman. How many brothers and sisters? I had a brother. Yeah he's not with us no. He's not a crazy to dive and he's thirty seven. Yeah nearly mom and dad died like six months between each other. Really this all happened like two thousand and then my brother died in two thousand nine and okay. So how were you able to cope with that? What did you did you see therapists and stuff? I believe in God. Yeah Yeah I believe in God I just and you. Ray Prayed and guide me through all of that. Yeah now I'm not saying I don't see it there. Yeah I see a therapist because people need to realize that you can't always do your own or checks right. That's right get halfway done and I was doing my own chain until I went to a professional mechanic and had all changed. Okay I love that analogy. Yeah now when you went to the therapist of course your parents died and then a few years later your brother. What were the things that had not been dealt with That you realize through therapy were the big headlines. I really felt like it was my fault. Mapra really know because it was like my brother was just. He's just you know he was a drug dealer. That didn't learn how to take care of himself. So when the drug dealers stop he just was there and I don't think he ever really had that confidence in himself. Anyway and look his sisters as Jones thrived at everything so I'm sure that bothered him to So it's like he came and live with me. He was doing right. We will fight. He would hit me. You know so. I had to get him on my house because my grandmother was like. You're on a sinking ship. This is an old man. You could take care of herself. Saw put him out and he was homeless for a little while and passed You you feel guilty about it. I feel terrible. 'cause the first thing. I thought was my dad is going to be so mad at me that. I didn't take care of my brother but I really. When I was in therapy. She was like she's like. Yeah really think about that with your dad really be. My Dad would be more mad at my brother. You know what I mean because we're and one thing that my dad said to me before he passed was I used to ask them all the time. Like you never was hard on on my brother. Like look at where he is now like. He's struggling. And why would you so hard on me? And he was like. I've never had to come and save you ever right. She's I didn't have to bail you out of jail. Never had to help you ran. He was like you. He's like I built you just like I want in June Now it's like. I wish I would have did that to Keith. And he was like Soda. Yeah Yeah bless him. Hey Leslie Jones. We're in talk more about everything right. After this notice it was gonna be fun. You know some so many so many people write to us talking about the websites. They've made through squarespace. You know we've been touting their praises for years and years and you guys. Ot yourself to go to squarespace DOT COM and figure out a way to make your own. There's no you know figure in to it. They make it easy simplest thing you can do in fact so many people write to us at Rupaul. Podcasts at gmail.com about their squarespace websites and tell us how fabulous they are. We get to see them. And I've got one here. You got let me hear about it. Hey Ruin Michelle. I just wanted to take brief minute of your time to send you my thanks. I've been a longtime listener. Love to cackle along to Ruin Michelle. I've been meaning to update my painting and drawing portfolio for ages and made it my resolution for twenty twenty update. The design. The old page was so embarrassingly dated that I would avoid directing clients and galleries to it and by extension my work I finally decided to give squarespace shot and I was able to rebuild a modern and elegant portfolio to do proper justice to my paintings. I know that supporting one of your sponsors is of mutual benefit. But I'd like to express to you my sincere gratitude. The ten percent off makes a huge difference to young creators who have to run an extremely tight budget to continue making art if you happen to be interested. My portfolio was at Jordan Clayton DOT CA Jordan Clayton C. L. A. Y. T. O. N. DOT CA. I'm just so thrilled about the design and feel significantly more confident now that my web presence is no longer stuck in the nineties. Thank you kindly for your time Jordan. He is an amazing amazing modern art painter. I Love I love the fact that Ten percent really helps him out because you know so many starving artists out there. Amen honey yeah listen you guys can get a free trial with no credit card required just by going to squarespace dot com and blown away and ready to confirm a plan. I gotTa do is use the offer code are you and get ten percent off. You'll be getting a great deal and of course helping keep wants to T- free and we love you for that. Thanks again to squarespace. Keep sending in your websites to Rupaul. Podcast gmail.com that squarespace.com offer code. Are you can just open up to you. Yes you can open up. I mean we are back with Leslie. Jones You Know Movies. Dr TV star Comedy Star. And you know you've been doing this for a while. But in the past five six years the world knows who? Leslie Jones and it's what do you think what happened. What what shifted was it. You was at the world. How did things change? You know very much like I said after my brother passed away it was a moment of me having like. Oh I think I've been being somebody else for little. I've been trying to be in the constraints of what playing everybody. Yeah everybody's like Oh you to be more feminine. Oh you need to wear a dress on or you need to do this so I was in a balance of that. Yeah and I wasn't. I was performing well but I wasn't really doing the comedy I wanted to do. And after my brother pass I can't explain to you this feeling of not giving a fuck It was like I'm living my troops like the hawk. The MOHAWK YUP is how my hair looked when I would be at home and just relax. I comb it so I after my brother passed away I was. I was doing a movie. I was doing lottery ticket when he passed so I haven't finished that movie. Then go home and then you get that month of everything's hidden you so in what's called out for a spot he was like. I can't do spot can you despite and I was like. I don't feel like home my hair if they don't like the Hawk then whatever. Yeah yeah and I walked up and people was like Oh my God that is delta. Started wearing my hair like that. 'cause it was me and started doing material that was like the one joke that had always wanted to do ahead. Never did and this joke kill for six years. I'm not started doing when I came home on a date back in the day I was in the middle of the liberal and I was crying going. Why can't I find a legit do if I was if I was slave? I'm mending go I will have the best black men They will give me the best because they're trying to make the that's like me. Yes all the interest. Elvis all you know saying every nine months. I'm giving Cole Kimball sliced off my six years. They like it was my real Chris. Newby for years for then he's always say you're not ready. You're not ready so I did that. Joke two o'clock in the morning at the comedy store and he was there and and when I came up state. I'm putting you on my list of funding. Funny People. Well I'll give fuck about lists. Yeah no I'm fucking funny like I saw like three days later. Lindsay shook has called me from SNL. She's like Yeah Chris Rock Todo. Say He won't wants us to audition you and I was like okay now. Hung up and called. Chris put the fuck is wrong with you. What would you do that? I don't do that type of comedy. I'm not fucking sketch comedy. What the fuck. I don't do that. Shit he was like shut the fuck up go out there and be funny and don't worry about it so when auditioning for SNL and real news like brought ruinous. 'cause I went out there not to get your job. If that makes any sense I can go out there so these people can see me. What the fuck ever right and I went in there and stand up. I ain't no characters did all stand up. Yeah cartwheel's all my best stuff going love me that they didn't pick me because Lauren didn't know what I was. He was like you so I don't know what you are. Yeah so when he called me he was like I want you to come to SNL NBA writer right now and I was like. I'm not a writer and performer. He's like I know that he's like but I don't know what you are. I need you come out here so I can study more so I was like whatever and just came out there in end up doing update on a whim and they was like I did to slave one like me and Jay wrote it and share Rhode if word for word because like when they started doing. This update was trying to rewrite it. And I'm like that's not my voice. That's not my voice so when we did it to table just literally stopped reading because I was like. This is not my job. Yeah and I remember the head writer. Tucker was like chain. Take her in that room. And you're right that joke word for word and that's how we did it on update this. Well what's interesting about the stories that First of all you were saying I'm not this. I'm not that I'm not this but it turns out you are all of those things you know. And it's basically yeah and it's interesting how we as humans Sort of put these walls and say no. I'm not that you know at an and come to find out that it is one of my best skills at like. He unlocked the door in me. He unlocked the door that I always had always wanted to say. Don't you limit your mind? I'll you know what I thought that I was going to be career Leslie. You're so funny but you know what you're probably get like you'll probably like a Queen Latifah. Maybe like a friend on his show or maybe on a talk show but that's it. That was my dream. Yeah Yeah God had something completely. He was like. Oh Wow. That's so sad that that's all you're thinking about. You can do right like let me show you what you could do like some of the stuff I'm doing I can't believe it. It is amazing. I can't believe some of the stuff I'm doing and so I'm just going back to this concept of. How does a person listening right now to this? Podcast unlocked that door and or first of all find the areas that they are blocked where they don't allow divinity to guide them. I guess the first thing got to do is ask Divinity Guy Is Act. I guess that is the first show you die. Say Guy God show me were cut and ask yourself what is it that you hate and challenge it. Yeah you know I mean like Maine's like how I really I stopped doing black clubs I I you know I always did like clubs coming up. But it's the same thing every time and we're going to have the same tax now. I took this material and I go to a why club now. I got White Comics. Coming up to me tagging and tags. I've never heard before and taking my jokes and places that we never done before until comics time. Please God if you're listening right now comics if you're black comic do white spots Do Spanish spots. Don't limit yourself to just black clubs because you go in to deepen your portfolio. Yeah if you if you let somebody else touched your stuff right you know. It's it's it's amazing story. I know we don't have much more time here but what. What haven't you done that you'd love to do and you could do movies. You do you think about doing Broadway or I WANNA do accident. I WANNA be. She hopes she always show. I WANNA be like that. 'cause they're very and I'm very angry. Send me when I'm hungry. She turns blue on having good Because we in my house. Oh we call it the black raid exactly red and so. Where do you think that rage comes from? Oh I'm sure everybody has a pocket of rage in them. Yeah I mean it's just not black people I think is is a little bigger our area of rage especially black women. Yeah you know. And what do you what advice. What about Is it a different advice for black female comics on? I hate to say it yes. Of course yes it is and I'm GonNa say there's about women comics period. We just gotTA catch up. We're so busy trying to prove that we're woman on stage. Just this is my problem with women. Comedians is that you just have to show your finality on stage. We already know your woman by the Tinson ads. We already know you don't have to come on stage and introduce you don't have to. You don't have to do jokes that do what you WANNA do. Right who the jokes that make you. Funny don't do the jokes that some fucking man comic or some club owners and told you need to be more film now say you know do was fucking funny. Yeah don't I mean do you. Yeah you're saying especially now I'm GonNa tell black woman is you gotta be able to work everywhere the one thing that I learned from. Snl that Keenan Thompson. They've quoted him wrong but what he pretty much said was right. A lot of black women when we go into. These type of jobs are not ready. I'm glad they didn't pick me. I for SNL. I wasn't ready. I wasn't ready. You have to. You have to take this serious. I mean if you're a female comic the one thing that they used to say about me you perform do He performed like a dude. Like like like I never wore pretty stuff on stage on. I started off like that trying to heal and stuff but I'll fiscal. That stuff is ugly. Get sweaty as you say so. My uniform jeans t-shirt had sent you. I don't want you to think about how pretty I am. I want you to think about how funny because let me tell you something when a pretty girl walks onstage let me tell you it takes a five minutes for anybody pay attention to it because the first thing that she walked on his face is girls going. She thinks she killed. She thinks she or women. May WanNa fuck her off for all. That's going on that sucks. That's not right it's always right. It's not right and let me tell you about that. Not Right Bush because people will sit and go. Oh it's not right. It shouldn't be that way. A gesture fucking sell. It doesn't matter that that's what's going on. That's it doesn't matter if it's supposed to have since comics supposed to do what the fucking work your ass off fucking being funniest hail trust and believe. I had all that shit against me and I put my head down and the only thing that be funny. Nobody can deny me absolutely at all through it. Don't matter what the fuck you saying about me. Sir I just ripped yes and tell me and I'll tell you and you gotTa have your mind to women there. They fucking with you when you walk off. Stage are still fucking shit out of you get that because you just yeah. I know you're shit out of me because I just ripped his walking and walking. I wouldn't fuck you with my enemies pussy. How about that that? I HATE THAT BITCH. We got listening to we. GotTa go but Now for people who want to see you perform do they go too Leslie Jones Dot Com and see your tourist? Now I use the yes. I'm a twitter and instagram. I put him out. But I'M GONNA be doing my next special. Oh I'm taking it September tenth and DC. Yeah offer net flicks. And you know I'm doing a couple of dates through through to stay sued to run our. Oh do you have a title for it yet? Is going to be between decades and time machine Leslie. Jones decades or Lizzy Jones time machine? Yes and by the time this airs. The it will already be clicks so you guys take a look out for that. Thank you for for talking. Last awesome cannot tell you how much I really admire and love. You and I really wish I had met you earlier in your career. 'cause I bet you like just I just WanNa be a fly on the wall of your life. I've been a SOFA and I'm not saying it was easy. Yeah that that's the part I wanna see is the hard part the part where you pick yourself up and was like I'm still GonNa do you know what I'm saying and I know there was a lot of like that where you party like you went out with Bernie and just party. Oh yeah nothing but part no but like some of the jokes you crack. I'll be like Oh my God we did. It was a lot of you know. Now it's about work and yeah trying to maintain it and pay back that nate. Thank you Michelle. Looking back Gore by everybody. Can I get? You can't love yourself. Hand the handgun allow somebody else. Can I get a name? And don't forget to subscribe on. I love yourself pound the hell. You'RE GONNA love. Some hot is a man.

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Crystal Goliday

The Convo with Kisha

51:39 min | 8 months ago

Crystal Goliday

"Welcome to the Congo. I am your house Lakisha. Mostly I'm a mom, a blogger. Brandon influence. And the VIN produce of my own event management company call they'll inexperienced. On the Combo you'll hear conversations with some of the most profound entrepreneurs from all over the world as share with us, their wins and losses. They'll also share tips and tricks with you that will help you be successful along this journey car entrepreneurship. Let's get started with the show. This episode is sponsored by the Elham. Experience. covid nineteen has really wrecked the industry as well as it has affected businesses and companies that normally have imprisoning this but I have a solution for you. It's called virtually this and I know you've already heard about him, but you may be wondering if it's something that you should do. Wa- I have a gift for you. I have a checklist of eight things that you should consider before you plan your next virtually van is really easy to get just visit. Dot Louis Slash V. E. C. K. L. I. S. T., again that's bid that L. Y. Slash the E. C. K. L. I. S.. T.. Crystal Golladay is passionate about giving back. She's the founder of never underestimate knowledge, which is a five. Oh One C. three non profit organization that provides resources to inner city youth domestic violence survivor. She's also an author. Her book is entitled How to Get a college degree for free where she shares her journey plus useful tips and resources. Hi Crystal. Thank you for joining me today on another episode of Congo we Kishan how're you? Amazing. Thank you for having me all if off to have you on here I'm so glad that we're connected and doing things together but I definitely want. The audience in the listeners to really get to know you and what you have to offer. So start with telling us a little bit about you. Well I'm a city girl out from New York City but I'm in DC now but I have the heart of a southern bell sound very caring. Arizona's full at both technical and business background. But I have a huge hearts that have a lot of philanthropic things that I do within the community one being a youth advocate I'm not fortress see for charter school here in DC in addition to me being found in presence of a nonprofit never underestimate knowledge that provides inner city youth with resources. As. well as domestic violence survivors and then I authored a book called how to get a college degree for free because I got not one not two but all three of my college degrees for free. Yes. Yes. Yes. With different. Funding sources and has had different levels both at undergraduate and graduate level, and this month I launched my consulting business to. Celebration with sure to expand upon my book because the readers they wanted war from me in regards to me helping them. Find Funds for their education, but also helping them with college prep. So I'm also known as the Fund Finder for education because I did all those things for myself and I'm starting to help others and then I have a membership group as well where to be in a group setting where I'll be helping people. So I'm doing a lot as low as being a mom a why. Room parent distance learning now. As well as design when things in a community and this being me and and maintaining my Zan because at take care of myself because if I don't take care myself, I can't take care of others. Breath foul off like just in all of that they use sair light it so many gyms in there and I think a lot of people don't realize all these things are possible. You're living proof of being able to wear all these hats number one but secondly, education is so important and how many of us would my hand handwriting's although y'all can't see it. Has Student loan debt. You know what I'm saying like literally Indyk with degrees that I'm not even really using however but you know we have this loan debt when there's a way out there to get your education and get it funded without it coming out of your hockey are taking all these expensive loans in your that Paulo that commit to make that happen. Yes, because I definitely want to continue to help families for generations because as you know being financially free, can a door you to do other things in your lives and as we now with with college degree, not guaranteed a job, but it's getting a foot in the door and conversation piece. So it's it's worth getting a college degree but understanding what she wants to do ran choosing the right once I'm helping people do that because in my book as share my journey, but then also. Useful informations, hips in resources that people can use. So I'm just trying to do what God has blessed in giving me through my. Through the blessings the village to help raise me. Right. I think that's totally totally. Awesome there you said for one thing if a blessing you know for you to be even doing this, but also that you see it as a blessing to sire others but secondly, to get a degree that you want to like thrive in. Degree in criminal justice. And I saw anything with it. I. Mean I've worked in the field for a little bit but that was not where my passion or my heart was in. So we are student loans incurred from that degree that I'm not even essentially using. Intel talented life for what it was intended for. Let me just say like that now using them for what they were intended for. So it's really great. That, you know you are able to help people really tap into that as well because I think that is so key for them to know actually what is it that you really want to do with your life before you go spend his money, you know on a college degree but in your fans, it's helping people not have to be able to do that to be able to earn their education other way. Right, and I WANNA point out that, you don't have to be the a student to get funding like for me. I, had a rough academic start where I was below grade average with reading and with my speech, you may not hear it now but yes, I, used to study yes. I got used to go to speech therapist yes ninety Jamais finally and you read about that in my book but I had The. Bill is that helped? Raise me too. So season me like my mom was very active organization out of the part of that while my friends is watching cartoons in Toronto Saturday morning learning about you know reading and literacy. So in turn I do that with my friends so that he is ahead of the game and Manga? He's the King of kindergarten right now but. I'm making sure that I'm instilling what I've learned because that's what it is. You want to share with you learn what the future generation that so that they can be better than we are. Right. Right. That's awesome. So you told us about you know starting your consulting firm which I am so excited and ecstatic for what are some more recent accomplishments that you've had. So for me. It is my book it is not consulting business. It is starting a nonprofit and with the nonprofit it's a matter of providing resources sitting in city youth, but doing something somethings that gift other family. So my goal is to have scholarships for. Our youth in different inner city. So the inner cities are based on like where my family history is I'm very excited about that and doing my first event in November to give away the scholarship. Guess that's so important and I love how? you're not just helping people find funds by you're giving back to a community that may not even have this on their their mind because they feel like you just said all well I'm not smart enough or I didn't get all these grades. I'm not connected in this in that in order to be able to give all. Just. Awesome. Bad. You know you're giving back In this way. Yes we're cool. Thank you and I wanted to add that. I know some families. Like ed had an intern that she decided not to do a internship with the predominant, the well which about hundred company because a family needed money right and I want people to be able to make decisions not based on money because they have money from other sources. So with the an in the corporate world as well I'm a corporate executive, I used to lead my nine to five kids one of the internship programs. With this unique internship program, we open doors to those who may not normally have opportunity to work at our business because. They young like has people as young as fourteen working for Fortune Five, hundred company have on their resume but not pushing paper doing like creating APPs, doing light worke, having different clients that we our clients as clients and produce in projects for the duo blockchain all that other stuff. So it wasn't just a menial thing. So it's about early exposure in axial light within the. Inner City minority community there's not as much sharing that should take place is like crabs in a barrel in some. I feel like now with everything that's going on in the world, it's more. Support in. Black power and all that stuff of black lives matter and. I think we can learn from some other communities with supporting one another more and sharing because I'm I've been at many tables being the only one of many like when I graduated with a graduate degree Bachelor of science in Computer Engineering by my university I was the only African American female am I in tire graduating class computer engineer? So in this was in two thousand, not exactly what year, but it was in two thousand. So just this thing like you would think, it would be more integrated and then going into a male dominated field of engineering. I was the only female only African Americans. The only take your pick at the boardroom table at the meetings. Then leading stuff as I moved on in my career though. There is this room for other people in I want everyone to learn a different scene mentorship sponsorship and get you both on sponsor because that person can help you along your way and pull you up as a client as well. Exactly. Oh I. Love that and nfo important especially now people need to. Understand. How important it is to sell up in your own communities back when I graduated high school and that was in the nineties. So I will leave that there. You know I I mean that wasn't something that was looked on as. Would happen. So when I made it out quote unquote and I went into feel chromosomes that number one not very meaning women are in but then not. Many blacks are in. You know it was another thing as well. So I think that you know being able to break through those kinds of barriers really really help us out totally being able to. Make our communities more sustainable for us. Yes definitely. Not Talk Malcolm. My sister said Criminal Justice Department the Police Department in Texas as well as army reserve. So I definitely understand different industries as well. It could be tough, but that's probably he had support one another she had a great information that we have. So thank goodness platform exact. Thank you for being a part. So let's talk about your book because this is exciting like to know that you can actually get a college degree for free is beyond amazing to me. What made you write your book? So. Back, when I was in Undergrad, at was a pre-college initiative chair for a organization called. NESBITT which dancer nationalist idea black engineers and I was a hosted a program for students concert school and they will like wow, like you should share this more and. They wanted me to mentor them and things of that nature had a whole shattuck programs. I put the idea of me having my leadership and Learning Development Centre boss as well as you know, there's so many things on the shelf because my parents as well as prior generations in society around me was said, the right thing to do air quotes is to go to school go to college get a good job retire than enjoy life whereas I was in that mood of going to school going to college getting a good job in a joint life abdul-aziz added not want to be to have what I call the golden handcuffs forever. I want to retire early Monday not anytime soon, I I love my company in the burn with me on Sidhu's plan on staying in corporate world. But I realized a whole entrepreneurial areas that you can do outside of your nine to five job in finding passionate, not having input show goals on the show. So what most people ask me how I did it and not on the undergraduate level because great a lot of people can do that. Get a full scholarship were get multiple styles is to pay for them for Undergrad, but how I got to additional graduate degrees. Three. it was from the most people asking me, and then also go into a live event called the big axe, which is hosted by Lucinda Cross, and then being in her her boop. Can't wore mastermind after that and being around like minded people than meeting Robin Devonish who is known as self publishing Maven, and then he has pulled Penn published cross it and just learning from people that are doing. African American females and you don't see this in mainstream all the time, and it's like me getting him out of my own way of so many people believed in me. And was telling me I can do this. I can do that or. Just asking me questions and I had one of my best friends. Tell me I should write a book but it was on a different topic it was on like financial stuff because of my financial plan how did was related 'cause the scholarship financing and stuff like that so I've had people tell me ride a book I share to do over the year and with my Mom My dad passing when I was pregnant. With my parents and my mom has had five years later in the same hospital, they will on actually use on the same floor five years apart and no one is my last parent. I'm a mom and not realizing that life is short. In you don't WanNa live with regrets. I figured. It was that time and I bought my book on the bedside of my mom ICU. While it was lash for life here on. Earth. Then you know. It's not time I. Guess my time to get out of my own way get comfortable being uncomfortable and just doing things. And sometimes, things may be ugly. They may not be perfect but I'm GONNA, do it learn from it sale forward if I have to learn from every mistake that I make an improve along the way. That is an amazing story I think that just shows resilience that shows perseverance like no matter what happens to us. We are going to do what we have to do and I think as fire to black women all over that are dealing with you know difficulty that nothing can stop you from doing what you WanNa, do unless you allow it to write a book next to your mother WHO's leaving here? You know strategy. That's that's above the ground amazing to be able to. Do that someone said that to me, my mom passed the Dana before Easter particularly year and I had any debt at night and so It was hard but I still had to go so far that client while you know my mom had transitioned on you know to a better place is shows like how strong and how really dedicated we are to what we're doing just keep going. Even in the midst of adversity. Yes. And I'm sorry I say law. Is Easy losing a loved one especially when a parent and your mom exile thank you for that. Yeah. I mean if difficult out together but that's something you and I you know having common you know kind of Segue to my next question like you have this amazing. Amazing nonprofit. You know what made you are profit? For me, it was seeing everything. Else around me and the stars aligning like I was blessed with the opportunity to Lee. At a national level, the internship program where at my corporate job will we? Received interns from the partnerships that we had with nonprofits and then being active in spreading myself across different nonprofits. I realized I had a mission in my life as well in Opole spreading myself so thin. With everyone else in being on this board and that Board A. Fundraising and stuff like that that I wanted to. Think about that dash between my two days a day I was born in a dinner. And I wanted to have meaning and I want my prince who was watching me. He was in here during this interview at he knows something last saying what do do enhance yesterday's and stuff like that around you he's only kindergarten the him to know what it is to live out. Trajan. And to leave a legacy for him but also not just doing it for me doing it for others because I don't want people to go. At my celebration of life because does not going to be a funeral in a sad event in I made was natural. My mom I want them to. Share their stories of how I touched him how I felt them and it could be someone that I've met on social media because I have a network of Social Media Bay that is so supportive and they walk out with me even even more than some of my family members, right? For me it was a matter of. Wanting to live out my passion but then also think about the groups and the support I've gotten along the way as I mentioned a village helped raise me. I had different organizations in different people spend their time and money in me getting my education as well as providing resources, hosting programs and stuff like that. So that's the arm for inner city youth because I grew up in Bronx coop city to be exact section five. And I went to Undergrad Philly than I moved to the DNV area analysis in DC and my husband from the city and we stay in cities. Ryan. So from domestic violence arm, our I'm a survivor of domestic violence. I was in a tumultuous relationship with an next that it went as far as judicial system Angolan to two trials. But I hadn't support of different organizations to help me run locate to help me get legal services to help me get a therapist to help me in different ways. So I WANNA do that for others taking baby steps that. Got, I was founded in twenty nineteen, but doing things gradually soccer. And give back. There's people out there that need help and don't know. What to do in different situations like that, and I know domestic violence is really high right now do to people at the stay at home in quarantine dishes global pandemic. So yes, those are the reasons to. Groups of people that I'm planning to help. Him Will Continue to help with my nonprofit never underestimate knowledge. Yes I think that is so important that we use our stories that help empower and educate others It just lets them know that they're not alone. You're not. You're not. You're not a lot. A domestic violence is something that's really really big right now I'm fortunate enough. To not have been involved in anything like that but it's still something very dear to me my grandmother was a victim of domestic violence and growing up as she talk about it. You never thought about it is you know violence have domestic violence because she was allstone will when I begin to really understand what that really meant and what that looked like. It just was like, oh My grandfather like really abused my grandmother it's it was just so real in in open and south especially now with this global pandemic going on. Is Definitely. something. We did really be paying attention to to help others out to make sure that they are not You know victims of that because now have nowhere to go like we were supposed to be staying in staying sight. So is really I? Think it's really huge of you to use your. You know as well to help. Others. Will. Buy and I will say this. Domestic violence comment most will forms is not just the physical because people get you mentally verbally in other way, I want people to look at signs pay attention to them. Take Action was best for you, your family future and I'm WANNA get to deepen in that round. In. The help like no one should be too proud to ask for help will be ashamed of what they go through because life happens turn. Found true. So I'm excited to hear about you starting your consultant firm. Foale. Amazing. It's super super awesome. Tell me like why at this point you know are you starting this consulting part? So I'm starting a because people have an accident for my book like I, had someone was like I'm in tears reading your book. I. This really resonated with me. So when are you doing X. Y. and Z. and I'm like, Whoa and then think about that. But they let me go and then I told someone else like I see her periodically the neighborhood and she read my book she was like I love it my child I was GonNa beat it and I was like crate I'm GonNa come out with this document and thinking about doing some services to people have been asking follow up question to the host you're GonNa do that full time right? Oh I didn't they Could you know I love the company I work for, and you're not people hold onto the corporate stuff instability and stuff. and. I was like from Your Lips. The guy is if it's meant for me to do that, this'll be that's not my initial goal but things happen you know. With those examples and receive feedback from my book receiving over the years. The response for how I'm hoping people when when people my story that the house in one more that it was kind of like it's time it's time to put it in a formal setting informal business entity formal packages would let letting people know what they'll get out of it and everything my website Crystal Golladay, Dot Com and. Dale, see what they're getting up front and then decide will pass they wanna do so I just want to help people and not just fewer information because I know people watching even people don't climate if people don't like Mayo Awash because when I don't host, he will message me like you. Okay like so when you following up on this, you said he was GonNa do that in. Yard it. This is what I've. Had it schedule after God about this of any could be I am think was watching myself so. I share because I care some people may think I shared too much but that's okay because it's not for them. Or they may be, Hey, we we do have this out there to where. You know they're they're just out there. Let me put it like that. But I'm all about positive vibes in focusing in being in competition with just me. Yes I scroll on Social Media I may be on it too long in a hit the ignore the reminder on my phone but it's me versus me every day I try to be better me than I was yesterday and I'm all about sharing so. One thing that people get with me. Is that. My network will come your network. If I don't have the answer I know somebody who knows somebody I'm not. Holding onto my chest of who they are I will connect you. So I think a lot of people don't get that like what's your may be doing the same thing out here as me okay. We'll ask to connect you with Robin who who will. Help. Me Learn about the self publishing world in connected me with the editing as well as the carbon all album actually. Bring her on on life for us to have a girlfriend Chitchat. Introduced her him market because I'm not the type to hold things that so. Kisha talk to yen. GRANDMA'S TO Local networks he gets in each other's and we're going to work on stuff together and the future has great people you know it's time for us to connect and Elevate and empower and do great things exactly and I think so important in many different areas that you are well bursting in how you know your skills Kinda tap into like a little bit of everything. So we're talking about you know funding for schools and you know to go to school came schools really utilize your or six because I think it's it's really start at their level where they're helping students with this process. Know this is a good conversation, right? But give us a moment. We'll be right back you. He'll wear from sponsors. This is Lisa mostly and I'm here to talk to you about anchor. If you haven't heard anchor is the easiest way to make a podcast it's free. You can record and editor podcast right from your phone or your computer. And go we'll distribute podcasts for you so it can be heard on spotify apple podcasts anymore. You can make money from your podcast with no minimum listenership. It's everything you need to make podcast in one place. Download the free anchor APP or go to Anchor Dot FM to get started. You five streams and we are five streets and what we all know about livestream is that they're hard to find a pain in the ass even often you find out about them after they've already happened and how helpful is that? Introducing Jack Dot live a website that puts all live streams in one place. So they're easy to find easy to add to your calendar seemed never miss another one again whether you're looking for more from Lakisha a yoga session or John Legend live performances yacht life has the streams you're looking for and those you've yet to discover. And if you'd like your life streams to be on Yak dot live, you can do that to yacht live is the official home of all extremes. I love that you brought that up because I am open to partnerships with schools. Universities. Organization is even corporations because it is a matter of educating people in having different programs, different workshops having my book apart of the curriculum while you're offering and bringing in speakers I do have speaker services I do s also on my website crystal, Golladay Dot Com. I do to have partnerships you compound my book in bulk where we can talk about that. If you're interested contact me in it is so many doors this open because I feel like. A. Story. When I went to go the sat prep at. Kaplan. I saw somebody a little bit bigger than my Fabio. In taken exam I'm like, what in the world? Like why is this course it here? Say at that time when I was taking and I'm sure it's probably the same Donald and I'll look into it. Exactly, once I get someone needs help with this. You take the sat as many times possible. And when I was thinking that you could take at puts him highest one highest mask together. So. New that I know this. This is me junior year whatever year. Doing it when coasting, we want I could have been taken prior and. On. Occasion I learned to do a highest one highest score. So it's about empowering people early 'cause if programs that my friends. A thaw you can get into that a hope you to line up resources and even if it's just connections knowing people in an industry where I went outside Oakland backup Oh yes. He's GonNa be in in in scholarships that I was researching funding that open up as early as thirteen. So I shared that with my community on Saturday new lies which had on my lives on Instagram facebook in also YouTube. So subscribe follow. So it's. A lot of useful information in finding Schering. I'm not. I. Say I'm a lifelong learner because I don't want to be stagnant and I've learned that in technology field you can't just get your degree in acid. You gotTA consider the bar in get certifications learn up on this new version even the I vol, you know they come out with a new version, every semi timeframe. So it's new things you gotTA keep up win a competitive staticky. So that's what you have to do to in order to be fresh to be relevant and to continue to expand because you stayed in the same place is long warring is GonNa get stale in you may not be fulfilled and some people may be but for me, I want to roll infamy rowing in essence continuing to help people. So let me know if anybody. needs to connect with schools in our I'm talking even as early as middle school the start with the school like my prints about how would university he knows about Drexel? University he's been on campuses and he could talk to you about stuff like that. If he gets to know you a little shy, it's like me got to open up all the time and peaked. But we started him out young because I want him to make educated decision on what's best for him. At that time exactly and I think the answer co par but it goes back to into what you're actually will be helping to educate parents on a certain level. All my mom wanted was for me to go to college. She didn't know anything about anything beyond that because she didn't go to college, but it's it's important because our parents asked parents Marcel you know we play a huge part in our kids education as well as the schools that they attend in us being well or even just having a little bit of knowledge or having that resource to go to when it comes time for certain things really helps it helps like Saul so much You know to help your kids make those kinds of decisions you know even from my son, my son actually it'd be twenty, two tomorrow you know college was staying and he was very good. He was a very good athlete in high school, but he was not a good student. So when that conversation came because mom. And Dad went to school and has have college degrees. We were able to have that conversation with him. No like Oh. This is for you. You know you can't go take these scholarship money and you know that school is not really what you WANNA. Do you don't even have a degree in mind that you WANNA take. So let's figure out something else you know for you to do whereas. Our daughter you know see hey, mom slow I. WanNa be I WANNA be a nurse and that's what she's doing. You know she's on that path. So I think you make really good opponents knowing you know what you need to do. But if you don't, you know you have a resource at your agency and your firm that's gotTa help people decide what they need to do what they can do. In the end. Right, and I WANNA say this college may not be for everyone. and. Even with. The undergraduate degree, it is a for a even social aspect of getting the basics on his goal for Undergrad but do the different things that I've done in the work feel I know even? Times that people can utilize that alternate ways to getting into the workforce. So I think I mentioned it in a post recently or in one of my life or in even partnership a habit, a nonprofit of some of the organization. So is out there. And I understand that school is not for everyone. So figure out have. And you could always try school out at a local level this to see if for you still be at home or in whatever environment should. Give. It a try if it's the you if not singled out which you want to do in your life it that mentor see what half they to see what works from their journey and what doesn't because you don't have to immolate everything from somebody but you can learn from somebody and I did that with the community and environment I was in. There was some people I'm like Yo. That's the bomb like I want to do that. When I get older some people like you're not so much. It's great. Glad it works. You wish you all the best. Of you know. illwill no net negatively nothing but works you you address on my path I didn't want to do that. So for me College was the way and I knew likes to get to where I wanted to I wanted to continue to grow the rewires and then also not just stay in technical round will go into the business from two to be more well rounded in verse. So I can be at the C. Suite Level with my peers, but then I can also be with break. down. Some technical documentation at times and bring you down to layman's terms to someone who started studying liberal arts business that don't nine all the data architecture stuff and things of that nature. So on a tabby well verse but also know my lane to when it comes particular situation in being leader also not knowing what I'm not good at and having team around me. To make sure that they fill in those areas that I'm not so great at but they're great at exactly exactly the phone. So important. So mom wife. All these other things you've got on your plate, like how do you make all of this happen? So. It's a matter of thinking about the stage of life on at the particular moment and then figuring out what's the priority at that time for example, distance learning right now is getting into a good groove with that. But also maintaining what I need to do in the corporate world in by the way starting my business. So it's a perfect imbalance. There's no fifty, fifty, twenty, five, twenty, five, twenty, five, twenty, five it's finding out your priorities and. Putting everything around that to work with you enacted phase in reevaluate in overtime to see if things have changed and if so it's okay to change. It's okay to shift and it's okay to say, no, I'm just not in the power of now. In my mind full of decade of life. I'm. Learning power of now and it is not. That you're going to please everyone could sometimes I used to say yes in that WanNa do things but did it to please other people and granted some people may across me out, call me my name or just not been happy with some decisions I made but guess what they're going to get over life go on because I'm going to be happy and a half to work on my household because even now with events, people want you to come to it or put yourself in a different situation like now like I mean to know who gonNa beat it with. All of that, you have to really think about your your peacefulness, your safety, hell dishes, overall future for new in ones that are around you. So that's I forgot the initial question, but I felt like I had to say. Oh. That's fine. Because I think nece shows like how we we do make this happen like there are certain things that you know I'm a big proponent of no sometimes it's hail now and I think that's one way how we make stuff happen. We are very decisive in what we choose to be a part of like it ain't J.. It's like Oh let me go jumping do this ask someone who plans events you know almost weekly now because of the virtual ram sometimes I have to say now that doesn't fit my brand or no I don't even understand the part of what you don't want this event for now now I can't. Give Lot. When you wear many hats and especially when you have a young prince that you're a young princess that you're rising like you really have to be very cognizant of the things that you are involved in and they also bring them around or they around in their whole development if all import. Deserve Washington sponges in we have to lead by example, I used to hate it when people used to have them in tally was say not as I do because I'm adult because asset. So now I explain things. In some people may think I'll. Challah whatever. I did not talk talk to him if I'm emotional aspect, somehow do some explaining because he's GonNa turn out to be an adult s half half-day expresses emotion some type away. So we have to think about that and I, know the last week I had on my mytalk show she talked about. The impact of what people did in her life when she was younger that intern impact to her when she was an adult. So it's this real is, will we don't think about that size the little things that we do what we say? We need to think about that for ourselves in others around us right and I think you know also to sometimes you have to be cognizant of your audience and who you're talking to light for me. I'm also I'm a seventies baby. So I grew aware. No, you don't ask questions the no. My Mama. Was Not GonNa sit down and explain anything to me. I was going to do is she said, and that's just what it was and I pretty much raised my kids the same way however, what I will say is that that doesn't always. Work out so well for some pairs for me just happened to, but there is a safe space for them to share because I on what's going on if I'm just so strict and rigid and like. Don opened up myself to them as an entrepreneur with grandkids, millennials, of course, but I have they're my board of directors I have stopped going on and I'm working I have to inform them of what it is. So they'll know what the limitations may be from me as my interaction with them but also know go get on my office leave me alone 'cause I got work to do. You Act to keep them in mind. So I really love that you said that 'cause a lot of times were so hellbent on you know not explaining stuff to kids and they were like I can't understand why they're so ungrateful they don't WanNa do Blah Blah Blah well, you. Go Up. The only thing they know is you said no with no with no explanation or you're doing something that they don't understand what you're doing and I think it's so important as family just that we have those conversations with our children. Yes I really really love that. Saul what the Knicks for you? So was next for me I see myself when definitely outside opens up. Doing some national international speaking having partnerships with schools universities. As well, as organizations companies, people buy my books in. Bulk sales. My nonprofit flourishing I do WANNA give multiple scholarships annually I do WanNa. Have A. Lockers fundraiser, which after be virtual. In November and then my big fundraiser, which should be an a private charter bull in in May. All welcome tickets only fifty dollars in all of the money goes to donations to scholarships, city you so I planned to continue to do a lot for. My community through the services that I have through my consulting services especially at one to continue to. Give back in that Brown from helping other people, bridgier dreams into reality. So if you or anyone she knelt be the families as the parent as well as caregivers as well as those in education to learn ways on how to help those around in this this dollars in their lives in could be adults as well because let's face it somewhere west. One pivot shift will continue or put things on hold. I. Am that person and the finder for education, but I am so much more than that that I can help you. So definitely goes my sight see how I can help you if you don't know this, contact me through my site, which is crystal. Gardenia. Dot Com. That's crystal. Spell the regular way C. R., Y. S. T. A. L. Golladay which is like holiday G., O., L. I. D. A. Y. dot com so crystal Golladay dot com and see what fits you in the stay connected ALMAC social media links on their self connect me on instagram crystal at Crystal Golladay I'm on facebook on twitter on lengthen I one youtube subscribe to my channel but I have a lot of great things in store in I'm partnering with a lot of great people likely Kisha in some other great people that met along my journey so that we can put our great minds together to make even more amazing things happen in this world fought for all of those so I thank you for. Having me on a platform and I look forward to our are growing relationship as we met each other not too long have so many things in common but also, US tickets in you to help other people in the world right to with their goals, the events from your end be it. Whole Bunch of other slew of of different things that we can do through the gifts that we were given to share with the world and I just want people to not be afraid to reach out for help in our services like me. I thought I could do it all with my phone until LAKISHA. Yes. Let's let's make this partnership happened. House. It is like. You have to outsource for with needed exam that's the part of leadership. So I'm here I'm here I am beer to help in my do my book to My Consulting Services Instinct nonprofit do the roles that I play in the Corporate World Nonprofit World community I'm thankful and I'm blessed I love it am saw. I feel blessed insult. Grateful. To have met you. I think I shared in one of the groups that are on the community manager of I said A meeting with one person has led me to meetings with all these other people in Seoul immigrant. They were kind of talking about our own cash is king and this and that, and I was like honey connections are king connections can get you to the cast connect about it would make this world around and just talked about how I was featured in one magazine the lead to me meeting publicist. That led to meeting coryell left me meeting Miss Lucinda. Let me meeting. You'll like I just told them I. This is just think about this and this is years in the making. Okay. So this was years ago that I was in his magazine and make coryell and there was able to meet missile send the last year and they're able to meet you this year. Now there's so many things that we're doing. Even just working in her platform with her is just so many things that trickle down for there. So it's salt great like for us to stay connected. In a git be genuine about it 'cause I. Think some people always want attached to us for the wrong reasons and I thank God for his discernment because we quickly can see through them and he he protects us so much that he moves them out of the way. Like quick fast and in a hurry but it's just a black thing to be connected to you. I definitely do some great things you know coming forward to be able to support you your platform You're doing you know in my space like we just GonNa do some things and I just like is just saw great to. Have that plugged and know how to get kids in undesired undeserving and despairs neighborhoods funding for school like some of them like you said, they don't know that there are opportunities in their ways. They just felt like, okay I'm not the smartest kid of a mom and dad don't have the money I can't go to school and that's what they really wanted to. Buy An animal. And there for those. Individuals but also more because some people looking at the salary. So like my parents on financial ace NAM point, they thought they they got it. They can but they had built on top of bills responsibility. So it is is helping those who May Not, have the economical means but even those that do that needs to find a way and I'm I'm I'm appreciative of having that knowledge and the skills and resources to help people. Find the way and in you have to put in into work. I've old must leave. I did the work to even at a young age found scholarships for me to even go private high school because that was my choice Ryan I didn't want my mom's a struggle so. You gotta you have to put in a work and things are not always be handed to you so. I'm here to shine a light on. Hey. Obviously love there. So it was so awesome. You know chatting with you I know we're going to have you back on now you and I are GonNa do you know so many things together asked? The listeners y'all will gate crystals information in the show notes. Make sure you click on those link for her on route to Al. if you have any questions she's there as a resource but also make sure you follow her on social media. She's doing some great informational lives and things with information and saw y'all need to definitely attacking some girl because she don't want banks. Working, okay. Thank you so much and I look forward to continue working with you and knows in the community as well. Peace and blessings all. Exactly, fine here. Thank you so much. Thank you for tuning into the Congo I. Hope you enjoyed the show be sure to subscribe on anchor or Apple podcasts.

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Federal agents with no identifying insignia pull Portland protesters into unmarked vans

All In with Chris Hayes

50:39 min | 10 months ago

Federal agents with no identifying insignia pull Portland protesters into unmarked vans

"Night on all end Donald Trump send secret police to snatch Americans off of the street and stuff them into unmarked cars tonight Oregon's governor says the president is invading. Portland as an election stunt. She joins me. Live Ben Former Surgeon General Vivek Murthy on. The White House lies about rising Cova deaths. Plus why is the White House blocking the CDC from my hearing unsafely reopening schools as the president focuses on trucks and beans, joy, Reid on where this race really stands and what she has planned for her new show. Starts Right now. Good evening from New York. I'm Chris. Hayes there are secret police operating on the streets of American city under the direction of the president. In the past week they have been recorded snatching a protester off the street, and forcing him into an unmarked car and shooting another peaceful protester with a nonlethal round in the head. This is all happening in Portland Oregon. Where on Saturday night a twenty six year old protester named Donovan La Bella was standing across the street from unidentified federal officers, holding nothing but a speaker. Just standing there. Rolled away a canister thrown his direction and then this happened. The reason you see him collapse. Their Donovan Labelle was because he was shot in the head with a round meant to be nonlethal is fellow protester carried him away as his blood pooled on the ground. His mother said his face and skull fractured that he finished facial reconstructive surgery early Sunday morning. He still has a tube in his skull to drain the blood. She told the Oregonian on Sunday The shot into his head was fired by the federal agents that the president deployed the streets. Portland against the wishes of the mayor and the governor. These agents have been driving unmarked vehicles and teargassing protesters while refusing to identify themselves. Oregon Democratic Senator Ron, Wyden tweeting a peaceful protest in Portland was shot in the head by one of Donald Trump secret police now trump and Chad wolf or weaponized department of Homeland Security is their own occupying army to provoke violence on the streets of my hometown, because they think it plays well with right wing media. Guy That Center, wide mentioned there Chad Wolf. He is the Acting Secretary of Homeland Security. To justify what Donald Trump is doing. He tweeted out images of himself viewing graffiti that had been put on buildings in Portland. The DHS put out a statement. Pointing to the buildings it said had been graffitied by quote. Violent anarchists listen to how he explained it on trump TV last night. We need to make sure that we're supporting our law enforcement officers here. And making sure that they're going to continue to protect the federal court. House here. That's what D H S does. That's our mission. We're not GONNA advocate. Our mission our responsibilities. However whatever the local leadership is here is telling us. So the mission of the Department of Homeland Security is to deploy secret police to the streets of American city to stop. Graffiti. And some light property damage. And as part of that mission to protect the federal courthouse, apparently also need to abduct people as well. What are you doing? Use Your words? What are you doing? What are you doing? Use your words. What is going on? We need to know who are you? Mental we'll get you out. What's your name your name? Okay. You're fine. We'll get you out. We've got you. Got You. Don't. You just violated their rights. Violated their rights. Yeah, kidnapping people snatching them off the streets, stuffing them to unmarked vans in America. That is just one of a number of videos and accounts out of Portland of unidentified federal officials, just plucking people off the street and driving away. Just like that. One came from twenty nine year old Mark Pettibone. WHO said that? When he was abducted, he got did not know if the men were even police. He thought they might be far-right extremists. I was terrified. He told The Washington Post. It seemed like it was out of a horror. Sci Fi like Philip K. Dick novel. It was like being preyed upon. After terrifying car ride in which is hat was pulled down over his head, so he could not see he was put in a cell, and what he later learned was a federal courthouse. He was later released without any record of why he had been picked up in the first place. A DHS. Put Out Defensive Statement. Claiming they had been suspect, had been suspected of either assault or vandalism. They were not sure which evangelism. DHS's patrolling vandalism the agency after nine eleven the created after nine eleven. They're going after vandals really. Let's be very clear here. This kind of armed federal presence does not help. Anyone that is why local officials do not want it. These men in their Cammo with their guns and their riot gear. They are not coming things down in Portland. They are not bringing order to Portland. They are making things in Portland worse. They are provoking people and violating the rights, which is precisely why Sean Hannity let his show with images of alleged violence as a way to distract. Desperately tried to convince people to think about anything other. Than the one century catastrophe that Donald Trump as ushered in. Remember when the president and attorney general embar had police violently expelled protesters peaceful protesters. Lafayette Park Right near the White House that Donald. Trump could have that ridiculous photo. OP The church. That was reportedly ordered in part because and I, quote here. Bar was concerned about graffiti on the Treasury Department headquarters. Prophetic. Federal officers in riot shields with guns and tear gas and batons being deployed because someone tagged a wall. And now it's the same excuse. They're using Portland. Remember after a secret police cleared a path. Donald Trump's strolled past that graffiti mafia park for pathetic photo, awkwardly holding a Bible to boost his political standing. Well, this is the same thing all over again. The president has authorized the occupation of a major American city in an attempt to create a propaganda victory for right wing media. They are performing fascism for the base. Only they're not just performing. They are really doing it. They're literally abducting people. Because the only trick, they seemed to have left as from slides further, and further behind the polls as the virus rages across the country is to lay waste to the rule of law, and whether it is grabbing people off the streets, and stuffing them to unmarked vans, or trying to stop mail in voting or calling into question, the legitimacy election or pardoning is crooked friends and Co. conspirators is a full-scale assault on the very pillars of liberal democracy as reelection strategy. Joining, now Organ Governor Kate Brown was asked the federal government to remove these unmarked agents from the streets or lemon governor. Thank you for joining me tonight. I want to just say that I am confused about the situation. I've been reading reporting on it all day. What is your understanding of what is going on in your state right now? That's a great question. We are certainly facing challenges with Covid nineteen and I've asked the federal government for help, both in terms of testing supplies and financial resources, we have citizens across the state that have been very hard hit by this virus, and we can't get either the financial support or the medical help that we need instead the federal government chooses to. Deploy troopers on our streets as you mentioned which is purely political theater. It's not about public safety, and it's certainly not about problem solving. Well I just detail wisely did Chad from digested anyone's call up you or one of your status? As governor were sending a bunch of folks out into the streets, they might be shooting non lethal rounds at some Oregonians. They might be teargassing some of them. Just a heads up. Would you like us to do this? Is Their communication or you just watching this? Happen. That's a really great question. I got a call from Secretary Wolf. Stay as you are well aware. That was several days after they'd always already almost killed a young man, a peaceful protester in Portland and the conversation I had with him was very very clear. Remove your federal officers from the streets of Portland. You are escalating an already challenging situation, and frankly in Oregon. We saw problems by de escalating and dialoguing. This is a total and complete distraction from the trump's administration failure to lead a national covid nineteen response. I saw reporting that some of these. Officers federal officers are vp custom border protection and I know this is gonNA sound sort of Snarky, but I want to say for the record. Portland's not on the border, right? Will you know your geography well, probably better than a lot of vice presidential candidates. In certain parties, but yes. We know that there are federal officials as you mentioned they are driving unmarked cars. Media reports. Tell me that they literally are renting. Vehicles from local rental agencies, but I ask them to go home. The mayor has asked them to go home. Our congressional location has asked them to go home and if not. I ask them to comply with the same restrictions that the Portland Police Bureau is. The federal courts have placed restrictions on the city of Portland Police. Force, in terms of their use of force, federal officials should be required to comply with these absolute same restrictions. Americans ought to be outraged in Oregon liens are. This is absolutely unacceptable. This was purely a photo opportunity for political theater for the trump administration. He is trying to distract If they were trying to problem solve, they would have called US and said. Let's have a conversation. Let's work collaboratively late to tackle these issues. They're not interested in problem solving. They only want to escalate. They WANNA dominate the streets, and they want to score political points with their base. Yeah, you wrote. The trump is looking for confrontation Oregon. Hopes of winning political points, Ohio, or Iowa your state, a kind of a theater backdrop for the president. Of course, there's real people there, and there's a real young man who really had facial reconstructive surgery, and really had his blood pool on the street after he was really shop with a nonlethal around by a federal official who he doesn't know what to this day. We don't know what entity he came from I. Mean One question. I have for you and for the citizens of state. If two men come up to me with guns in camouflage and Grammy to put me in a car. I'm not going with them. I don't know who they are. I don't know if people that just bought camouflage in a store and a police badge and have a gun. Authority they have. This is terrifying for the citizens of the city of Portland in surrounding communities. Obviously, it is definitely like pouring gasoline on a fire. This is not how we saw problems in my state, and it's absolutely unacceptable. The circumstance you just showed complete violation of civil rights and a violation of our Constitution certainly federal law enforcement officials should be forced to abide by these at the very least. A governor. Kate Brown of the State of Oregon as you can tell, she has been asking. The federal officers who've been deployed to her state onto the streets to leave. Thank you so much for your time. Tonight Governor. Thank you be safe. Try I want to bring now. In a Senator Jeff Merkley Democrat Oregon who tweeted at the president earlier. Get your. Lackey and uninvited paramilitary actions out of my state, our communities, and not a stage where your twisted reelection campaign and Senator I wanNA. Talk about the legality here an oversight, so we have some news on that front. The ACLU has already assumed the Portland police local police and I would just note that that Portland Police. Department has had some real excesses and there's a reason that they're hundred federal. Constraint in terms of what what what kind of use of force they can have, but the judge said the ACLU can add federal agencies to at and a US. Attorney for Oregon. The Justice Department has called for an investigation into those protester arrests. Is that enough does more to be done to figure out what the heck is going on here? Or more has to be done I. mean every American should be offended. What they had seen tonight actually terrified. Trump is using these federal forces as a personal paramilitary force. That is what dictators do. That is not what presidents of A. Democratic Republic. Do and I can tell you that we pursue this question of who are these people and I talked to the US Marshal's office they. They said that they were they were marked. And then it appeared that these folks were customs and Border Protection agents those were the ones sweeping people off the street and we got a reply for mark. Morgan Mark Morgan. The Commissioner for CB Says No. No, no, they were clearly marked as federal law enforcement officers. Ucla's pictures you. You see the word police. That's where the Portland police were they someone who just as you said bought some camouflage and some police badge mark Penna Bone, who referred to? He said he was terrified. He knew that some of the the white power extremists have come to try to harass protesters in Oregon and it was going through his mind was well. It could be these extremists are taking the are are kidnapping me I against absolutely unacceptable to have unmarked. Unmarked this is like stormtroopers. This is completely unacceptable. There's no accountability. If you don't know who people are, and now, our federal government is a lying to us, not coming clean I, met with them. About what are the rules of engagement? Who were the decision? Makers about what weapons would be carried and what tactics would be used. They said Oh. It's all in some book somewhere. We have protocols well well yet. Protocols for different places. You make decisions who makes those? Those decisions who who coaches the team before they got the street all now. It's all in a book somewhere. There are absolutely no transparency. The term secret police or personal presidential paramilitary force seems seems appropriate and then look what they're doing. Grabbing. Somebody who left a peaceful protests was walking back to his car, sweeping him into a van Roy prison cell later, releasing him never telling him who they were or why he was stopped again. This is unacceptable in America. I have to say that in my career. Covering politics I have heard countless lectures from conservatives and Republicans about federalism states' rights. Local control the federal government we want the federal government coming in and telling us what to do there. I just don't understand what even why is this the business? In any way shape or form or see vp whoever graffiti wall whether they were ANWR ICUS are not. We have local law enforcement in this country. The DA doesn't run around arresting everyone who graffiti something just seems like no actual grounding for this other than the president wants a show of force. Will we certainly in in Portland had conflicts between white extremists and others who are protesting. The. The city commission and the the mayor and the police chief and teams have tried to figure out how to keep them separated. Keep him from being violent exchanges. As stop any form. Of destruction is, it is not always easy, but it gets much harder when you have unidentified agents coming in using impact munitions, shooting a peaceful protester in the had so I, asked about the rules of engagement I said you have roles assay. You can shoot somebody in the head with these these impact, munitions, rubber, bullets or something of that nature. They said well we have. We had rules where you get me a copy. No, that won't give me a copy well. We'll think about getting me a copy I said you'll have rules like like if we use these. We only use them for endangered A. A. We never shooed above above the chest up. It's absolutely the governor had it right. It pours gasoline on this fire this tension so here we have everyone working to deescalate to any form of violence or property destruction and the federal stormtroopers, trump's personal para-military force coming in here in a secret police style just making everything so much worse. He he has to get them haul. It does seem like from a legal point of view that this type of unidentified sweeping people off the street. No probable cause is a violation of civil rights and look president. Would we expect that from president trump. Yeah, it's it's intolerable. Folks should go read about how the founding fathers felt about this kind of policing action. They were not very very supportive. In fact, it's part of what sparked Revolution Senator Jeff Merkley of the State of Oregon. Thank you very much. If you're going to be. Next for now witnessing a rise in the number of people dying from the coronavirus, each day I'll talk to the former surgeon general, the US about the. Costs of the trump administration's easily preventable failures right after this. We choose to go to the. Do the other thing not because they are easy, but because they are hard. I'm Chuck Rosenberg on my podcast. The oath I speak with those who sacrificed for the common good who do things because they are this week, former National Security Council official Fiona Hill, we can ourselves have a serious rational discussion about where we want the relationship with Russia to go, but we have to stop using Russia as part of our domestic politics, join me for season, three of the oath and MSNBC podcast search for the oath wherever you're listening right now and please subscribe new episodes. Everyone's Day. Hey It's Chris. Hayes this week on my podcast. Wise is happening. I'll be talking with political campaign veteran, Luke, as also my brother about what it's like to be running campaigns. In this moment there's a frustration out there with the American electorate and just American general like things are not going well and that the response is underwhelming, so I think there's a predisposition to being like why is this also? Why are these things not working the way they should be and that's only compounded over the last few. Few years for some of them like they lost their job in the great recession, they lost their pension ends like these people that quote unquote played by the rules they got screwed on. The mortgage screwed on. Their job screwed on the engine. You know I voted for this guy and my life material change all that much I think people are just frustrated with the system of not addressing the needs. That's this week on. Why is this happening? Search for wise's happening wherever you're listening right now and subscribe. Exactly one month ago vice. President Mike Prints the head of the coronavirus task force was telling anyone who would listen about the great success of his coronavirus task. He tweeted today less than six percent of Americans tested at the virus. Cases have stabilized over the past two weeks averaging twenty thousand down from thirty thousand April hospitalizations are declining, but working closely with states to safely reopen America capitalists capital our capital. Today, the country set a new record with more than seventy three thousand reported cases, and in the same way when daily cases were around twenty, thousand and pence ran, has premature victory lap. The administration in the last few weeks has been crowing about the low fatality rate. The one thing I would note is that when you look at the mortality rates? We're seeing that our efforts here at the federal government have been working. But as sure as night follows day, fatalities follow cases so after the recent. UPTICK IN CORONA virus, cases deaths are now starting to rise to in the last several days. Arizona Texas and Florida all set record numbers of daily deaths look those charts. Were now creeping back up two thousand deaths a day. Nearly one thousand Americans are losing their lives every single day. And that lag between diagnosis and death that had been set in motion weeks ago. Which means the die has already been cast for how many people will die from this virus over the next several weeks? Each of those people a fellow American, who's been failed by the governor? From. Rea- Surgeon General Vivek Murthy. Is Irving the fact that we have screwed up this up worse than anyone? He said on Monday. Quote our response strategy as country has been frankly embarrassing. We have the capacity, the knowledge, the resources to mount the kind of response that a pandemic like this meriden instead were behaving like a failed state. Dr Vivek Murthy former US surgeon general the Obama. Administration joins me now. I want you elaborate I on that point Dr. Murthy it's great to have you. This has been a metaphor that people were throwing around of the beginning, but I think the further we go, and the more that we sort of stick out among all nations, the harder it is to argue that there's something deeply deeply wrong here. Well thanks for. It's good to be with you tonight. This is the wrong way for America. To be exceptional. We do in fact know how to take on pandemics, pandemics, and even though this is a unique one. We have handled other outbreaks in the past and we know that you've got to bring together. All of the resources in the public and private sector you've got gotTA communicate with one voice lead with science and get resources to people on the front line was tried and true principles have pandemic response. Time and time again. We failed to do that. Kind we're paying the price in lives loss in an economy that has been badly damaged and. In in parents and children who are uncertain about whether they can go back to school so this is extraordinary and think about this for a moment. Just about every other industrialized country hasn't been able to seek aces. Go Up, but then bring them back down. Here is really only one other country other than the United States that has gone up. Only come down a little bit, and then surged once again because they haven't been able to get the job done, and that's Iran. We are that is a category that we're in now. We have far more resources and experienced any ron it. We find ourselves at the bottom of the chart in terms of our pandemic response, and that is frankly unacceptable. I remember early in the in the pandemic when people were pointing to China's response as a sort of. Example of the the failures of Chinese government, right that the Chinese Communist Party was centralizing information that they were stopping on science that they were hiding things from the public right, and that was part of what made the response so bad, and that was a true critique in the beginning right, and I saw similar critiques of Iran's initial reaction. The idea was look when you don't have states that are transparent that are accountable to their people. They will screw this up. What does it say about the United States that we are in that category? What it's points to is the importance of leadership. You can have the best scientists in the world you can have a great deal of expertise in the public and private sector you can have pharmaceutical and biotech companies that are capable of making manufacturing extraordinary vaccines aerobatics, but he don't have the right leadership. He will flounder. It's very similar to to think about a car for a moment. You can have a Ferrari sal engine. You can have the world's best a safety features and invest the best GPS system. If you've got a driver who doesn't know where he or she is going. Then! You'RE NOT GONNA succeed. You're going to crash, and unfortunately that's what we're seeing in our pandemic response. Leadership really matters, and we do not have the leadership we need to see is pandemic. I hope somebody steps up in our federal government, because lives are at stake, many of the lives that are lost now our lives. They did not have to loss. We could have and should have done better. That? Of course, the lies we are losing every day a nearing one hundred forty thousand total fatalities. That's the highest price being paid for this failure of leadership and I want to just. On this question of the of fatalities, there was a long period in which cases were going up and fatalities were declining. Most people said look. This is just this is the lag. This is the time between the lightning and the thunder. This is how it works other said well. Maybe we're getting more. We're catching people. Earlier and younger people are getting this so maybe fatality rates, but it now appears that we are destined for several very very brutal weeks in terms of the fatality, the virus. Is that your view? Yes. Unfortunately, this is going to get worse before it gets better. In terms of the death toll increasing, and unfortunately this is what many public health experts were were saying months ago and they were worried about. And they were talking about specifically allowed. We know that when people the first step is people go out and they get exposed. The next step is at after some period of days of potentially a two weeks. They may start to develop symptoms then after that they'll go and get a test some days after that a result will come back then you'll see er visits. Visits, and hospitalizations increase, and then about two weeks after that you'll see debts increase, so think about all of these steps you've gotta recognize a want to see. The number of cases started. Go Up and the hospitalizations up. You're going to see death rates likely. Go up unless you got a blockbuster drug. That is a game changer. We don't have that right now. So, this is unfortunately somewhat. Predictable, but it's it's. It's the reason that we have to recognize to critical things. One is that you cannot take your foot off the accelerator. When it comes to pandemic response, you can't step back and rest thinking. It's all done. It's not done until it's done, but the second thing you have to keep in mind here. Is that when it comes to these kind of of pandemic responses. You've got to be honest with people because public trust is what you need in pandemics like this. If you don't have public trust, people aren't gonNA. Listen to you. They're not going to wear masks. They're not going to distance themselves. They're not going to reduce their activity and right now we have states that are thinking about pausing reopening because of the surge. In cases they're having. D They need to be thinking about pulling back entirely, not just pausing pulling back because half-measures don't work with Kobe nineteen. You've got to go all the way. Otherwise. Prolong the pain and that's the pain. We're living through right now. Final question for you. We're beginning to see some behavioral changes happening in states like Arizona that has been had one of the worst outbreaks, we maybe case new cases starting to bend the curve a little bit there, but when you look at the map when you look at what sort of transmission level is. It's pretty terrifying right now. I mean it's not just Arizona Texas and Florida and South Carolina, but all kinds of states look like they're in the earlier stages. You know two or three weeks behind them, and that train is just barreling down the tracks. that. Is True an unlike March? When we had the worst of Covid, nineteen contained to a few states including New York. We are now seeing this trajectory all over the south in the West and we're starting to see mid West. Also start to turn in the wrong direction, so all of this emphasizes the fact that we have to address this pandemic on multiple fronts. We've got to be working on the behavioral changes pulling back on social interactions pulling back on. An in person engagement particularly in indoor settings restaurants in bars. We've got to have mandatory public mass quarters all over our country and we are still hesitating to do that. Despite the death toll we're seeing here's a key point, Chris. It has to be a company. I A parallel effort to increase testing and contact tracing capacity. We were saying this in March. We were saying this April and yet here we find ourselves today still with turnaround times for tests that are six. Six seven eight days with people, waiting hours and hours in line, unable to get their tests. That shows is that our government has not learned from the mistakes of March everybody in pandemic response will. My will fall at some point they'll. They'll stumble. They'll make a mistake that is understandable, but what you cannot do is fail to learn from those mistakes and make the same mistakes again and again. That is unfortunate what we see ourselves doing. We've got to do better. Do We have to Dr Vivek Murthy. Thank you so much. Course thank you. Next the president's disastrous handling of the coronavirus pandemic is costing him supporters. He can't afford to lose the down ballot. Races are feeling the pain. My new primetime colleague Joy Reid joined me to discuss just ahead. The Cook Political Report has been lect been in the election, predicting Bible for decades analyze elections and campaigns, and they make predictions generally pretty conservative, pretty hedge pretty sober today. They did something they appear to never have done before. They moved twenty house races at the same time all in the direction of the Democrats. The reflection of political reality right now something appears to broken among a certain kind of persuadable voter because of Donald Trump's abject failure with the corona virus it showing up everywhere you look in a sinking approval ratings back in January had an forty-nine percent approval rating five months later at the end of June in the midst of a pandemic is at thirty eight percent. Head to head matchup Joe. Biden is beating Donald trump by an average of nine points. It's in his corona virus approval rating as well specifically. If people trust what he says about the virus, a new poll shows only thirty four percent, said they trust Donald trump a good deal on the coronavirus two-thirds almost two-thirds of come true wapping sixty four percents that they do not trust him much or at all. Now this is all hurting him across a lot of demographics for one group Donald Trump won in the last election. The is tremendous vulnerability with now are seniors. Choices explicit told. Rice getting older Americans the hardest. Throwing America towards. Democrats are looking to press advantage with ads like that and joining me now the host of the new seven PM show on MSNBC starting on Monday my friend and colleague joy, Reid of the readouts, congratulations. Joy I am so thrilled about this next chapter. Thank you so much Chris I really appreciate it. It's going to be so much fun being your lead it. It's going to be really great. You. You and I have talked been been having conversations on air and affair, since trump was elected about this kind of persistent way, in which there's kind of this defying gravity right, which is that? He, he was never popular wasn't even really popularly elected he more people voted against him. He's had this approval. Rating hovered around forty, four or forty, three or forty four percent, and yet from this position of weakness, or what would be weakness for other politicians. He's kind of defy political gravity that appears to be changing now or have changed. Do you bike? Do you think it has changed in some fundamental way? Why Chris from our conversations. I think that I've been very cynical. You know that I've been very very cynical about you. Know the electorate, and and the reasons. Why Donald Trump got elected, you know. Had you know it's something to do with misogyny and people just not wanting to let Hillary Clinton because they had this long standing. You know sort of crazy view of her, but also. Also there's a sense that Donald trump could restore a version of white privilege that would take it back before political correctness made you know white people feel like they had to be more polite about race than they wanted to be. He just was a free and candidate. He was sort of an Avatar for allowing people to strike out against non white immigration to strike out against you. You know the changes to lgbt writes. It ought to strike out against it and have a cover, but here's the problem that that whole reason for elect Donald Trump, that's not impervious to the fact that your grandma has covert or that your son has cove it or that you can't go. See your mom like the the problem is Donald Trump's base among white voters are not impervious. Impervious to Kobe some of them think they are. They think if I just don't wear a mask and I just say it isn't really won't get it, and they still get it, and so the problem is Donald Trump has finally confronted something that he can't explain away. Disease and death, and it is disproportionately hurting people who look like me, but it's also killing white Americans and Republicans. There is this fascinating poll on the sort of cynicism question, right which persists I think. Because you know people have sort of PTSD from sixteen. MONMOUTH. Does this poll a Pennsylvania and they find Biden winning by this like crazy number a fifteen sixteen point something like that, then they pull pennsylvanians about who they think will win Pennsylvania and they say we think trump's GonNa win even after they just told the pollster by huge margins like I'm voting for Joe Biden and they ask other secret trump voters in your community. Yes, fifty seven percent, no thirty five percent, so people still have this suspicion right and I think in some ways that ends up working to the Democrats advantage, because no one is not people I know are complacent about this election. That's right. Absolutely you know what helped Donald Trump? And he and I think we have to always remind us. He didn't win the election right. He won the electoral college because he won a small margin. Seventy something thousand votes in three states, but now everyone understands that saying today. I don't feel like you know Hillary Clinton. I didn't like her enough. Excuses that people were able to use to wriggle out of voting against Donald Trump, in two thousand sixteen. No one no one is taking it for granted now. People who even are gently supportive of Joe Biden are determined to crawl over broken glass to vote for Jill Biden. Joe Biden's sort of Teflon status right now, and the election is because of trump. It's because now. Trump has been seen inaction. He's not the theoretical guy from the apprentice may be fun to have a wacky president who's been a Reality Star? No now he's the guy who presided over one hundred and thirty five thousand deaths. That's more depth than in World War One. We're approaching war numbers eventually so I mean I think that his incompetence is sheer incompetence and also his increasing weirdness. Answer's simple questions the way he goes after Fau. Cheesy the way that he just talks about things seem so odd that he certainly is A. There's a buyer's remorse I think factor even among Republicans I know who just they just can't do it again, yeah! Yeah it's funny, because in the absolute terms we're talking about you know three out of every hundred voters for out of every hundred voters five, maybe at the margin. That's still an enormous amount of the you know when you're looking at election like we have an election in America I want I want to ask how you're feeling about the new show. What what you have planned and particularly in this moment I mean you know I've been talking to people? We are right now in midst of the most tumultuous momentous year in American Life since at least nineteen, sixty eight, or arguably since nineteen thirty two I think you could make a case. These cabin wants a lifetime. How are you feeling? And what? What do you got planned? Yeah it's it's sixty-eight. If George Wallace had one right. That's what we're experiencing right now. What's what would have been like then? And you know one of the things that I really WanNa do is to, and you started the show tonight with the show with the story. That is alarming me right now. The kind of descent into autocracy, the fact that we're now talking about fascism as a thing, we have to discuss in terms of America. One of the things I WANNA do is to drill down into talking to some of the people who. Who are on the ground there, activists there who may not always come across on the local news, they may not always be seeing. They may not always get airtime, but there in the middle of this and I think we need to talk to those people we need to bring forward. Some of those voices and the opportunity of having somebody from my point of view, who's always been cynical about the police like I've never had any jaded view. That Barney Fife was real. I never thought that was realistic at all, so I WANNA come. Come and bring that sort of that idea. Really questioning the reality that we're being given by our politicians and questioning them and being in DC is going to be a huge advantage to being able to do that to be able to catch them while they're hot. As soon as they come out of that capital, we want right in front of us right now to answer questions because the last thing I'll say. Is that what we're seeing in the streets? Right now is going to be in the halls of Congress in January. These young folks. Folks are not playing around there still marching. They're still demanding as long as they say. In the streets, they have power, and that means we may actually see changes to policing. We may actually see real changes to things like healthcare, but to make that happen. They're going to have to move that power off the streets, and into the halls of power, and so I think you and I. WE'RE GONNA probably having a lot of those kinds of conversations about how do you then turn that activity in that action into actual change in power? That is a great question fact my next guest is. GOING GONNA. Talk about that with So thank you for teeing up a tease joy, Reid my colleague here at. Who is the host of the brand spanking new show? The readout starts on Monday night. It's one hour before us five nights a week. Tune in, thank you joy, I'm so psyched. Thank you. I'll be waving to you across the tees now as we get to eight o'clock so Chris. Really appreciate you having me on tonight. All right coming up, the massive challenge to school this fall, but no one's really addressing the at a former middle school principal. Who looks like he's about to go to Congress to do something about it. My wife teaches elementary school and I'm the founding principal of a community school and in northeast Bronx. Educators, we face the most damning challenges every day we work with children and families who suffer from. Asthma from pollution homelessness lack of healthcare. My name is Jamal Bowman. I'm a Democrat. I'm running to be your congressman new. York's Sixteenth Congressional district. Last summer when Jomon release that video he looked like all blong shot to win that seat, a real long shot, the incumbent the guy was running against was Eliot Engel Angles, a sixteen turn, incumbent spending, Congress, nine, nineteen, eighty, nine, a member of House leadership, the chair of the Foreign Relations Committee. Did Not have any money. He did not have any institutional backing us. A middle school principal. Congressman Angles endorsed by Hillary Clinton and Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi even. The Congressional Black Caucus PAC endorsed angle. And then in the middle of the campaign, there was a pandemic. Nobody could really campaign. But then Jamal Bowman begin to catch fire through grassroots, fundraising and Eliot Engel making some huge missteps like getting caught at a hot mike at a district event responding saying if I didn't have a primary, I wouldn't care. And the end Jim Bowman did not just eke out a victory today. The Associated Press declared it for him by a double digit margin now full disclosure. We have not covered this race at all. What was happening? Not once because I have a very clear conflict, which is that my brother manageable moments campaign. But now the race is over. It's my pleasure to welcome to all. Democratic nominee for New York's Sixteenth Congressional district congratulations Mr Bowman. How are you feeling? After this finally got called about three or four weeks later? In a pretty awesome feeling, good feeling, relieved feeling excited feeling like I can finally celebrate a bit for a few days before getting to work. It struck me when I saw your video I thought to myself. You don't see a lot. Look, prince, middle school principal. It's actually pretty good training to be a politician or or or run for office you. You have to be deeply connected to the community. You know what's going on. You got to be kind of public figure a bit of an authority figure. You gotta get people like listen you. Take you seriously. Curious. What made you want to run for office? And how you think that background does or doesn't prepare you for what what looks like your congressional career going forward? I was tired of children dying in the bronx literally during the twenty seventeen twenty and eighteen school year, thirty four children died within the K. twelve school system in the bronx, and seventeen died via suicide and right here across the street in coop city across the street from my school, a young girl ninth grade jumped off the building after being bullied in school, and in New Rochelle which is also in the district. One young girl stabbed another during a conflict during lunch break at new, Rochelle, high school, so kids were literally dying in the streets, and there are still dying in the streets now just from. From police brutality, but because they live in communities that have been historically neglected marginalizing disenfranchise, suffering through poverty and toxic stress and chronic trauma, so after work in education for twenty years and being a middle school principal for ten years. I just got tired of it. I spoke to people throughout the district about Congressman ingles leadership. We continued to hear that he was absent. He was disengaged and they felt it was time for change. So after the work in education that I've done is ing beyond. The walls of the school decided to jump into this race, and thankfully we were able to pull out a victory. You I took a lot of interesting race, because obviously familial connection to it, but it became quite a national story as well one well thing I noticed is most people that run for office are coming from more of a background where their lawyers and they're sort of politically connected. You kind of learning curve and I'm just curious as a person who went from being a a normal person to now probably member of Congress Senate candidate. What was that experience like? What did you learn in doing the the reps day in day out of learning how to be a candidate? Well once we hire luke as that transformed the entire campaign I mean he coach to being trained be up. To make the best candidate I can be. Nobody in all serious. He was a tremendous help to justice Democrats. Where tremendous help and you're right about the learning curve kind of had to go back to school. This to download all of the policies that were being pushed in Washington things happening at the local level, both at the state level and city level, and just connecting with grassroots organizations that have been doing the work right here on the front lines with with regard to immigration reform, housing, reform, economic and environmental justice. I just plugged into all of the groups. Doing the work did as much as I could to learn. About the issues, and then just use the skills that I learned in education, just connecting with people meeting with people listening carefully being learner throughout the process, and just rooting everything that we talked about everything we did in our common humanity whether we're talking about foreign policy. Domestic policy was happening a ride New York. What's happening in Riverdale? was happening in in the Bronx. It's all about our common humanity, and that's what our campaign was rooted in from the beginning. You you've you've sort of coming from the Progressive Wing of the Party you've support Medicare for all. Green you deal. I think your foreign policy views. Were were at odds with some of Elliott Angles who is for instance, oppose. Iran deal voted for the Iraq. The Iraq war. What do you? What do you see as the future of the Democratic Caucus right now? In terms of there's an emerging group. In the. New York Delegation of folks that have politics close your own. A lot of fresh new blood is going to be in there. What does that mean? The progressive. Moven is growing not just in this district, but across the country I mean we were able to secure fifty six percent of the vote in the district that many people would have called moderate before race, so the progressive movement is growing because of this pandemic and because of the George Floyd. Lynching people are really ready to fight for racial and economic justice in a very real way and deal with institutional racism and the railway as well so not just focus on police, brutality, mass incarceration, but also. Also. Universal Healthcare, a green new deal fully investing in our public schools, and just centering the needs of those who are most marginalized and disenfranchise censoring working class. The working poor hold on Wall Street, the wealthy large corporations accountable. The American people are demanding this level of change, and that's why we were able to pull out the victory. So that's what the Democratic Party needs to be all about in this moment. This is a unique moment in American history, and we have to take charge and respond urgently to this moment. Unique moment, and and and the the district you are GonNa. Represent most likely has been hit hard by all of those forces I. Know it very well, because it's a my home district Jamal Bowman. Thank you so much for making time tonight. Thank you for having me Chris. Right final thought before we go tonight as a parent, I feel like almost every conversation I had these days is about schools because we're in the midst of a pandemic, that is very much not at all under control. The conversation has been about how to open up our schools, so kids and teachers can be as safe as possible, but it strikes me. That is different goal than absolutely maximizing community safety. I mean given the competing imperatives right getting kids back into school for Socialization Services and education on the one hand and minimizing viral transmission on the other lots of places have proposed a kind of half a loaf hybrid model small classes in schools a few days a week and remote learning the rest of the time. If we do that, which is what New, York, city is planning with Chicago public schools among others what they propose today. Then figuring out childcare is going to be a major issue. Working parents are going to drop off their kids at other people's houses Deger's friend's cousin's grandparents. With one family, hosting a few kids at their house, so that say those maybe nine kids at the off the books neighborhood school pod slash daycare could maybe bring the virus back to their nine separate classes. And then if that happens right with this alternate system, have you really reduced community exposure transmission? It's an modeling problem I am not qualified to answer, but I am really not sure. The fundamental problem here is that schools cannot solve this on their own. Because there are at least three problems we face and schools are only in charge of one of them. One problem is education. The welfare case that is what schools are in charge of kids needs education. They need to be around. Kids for Socialization and Development and there's no question about that, but there are two other problems that schools cannot fix. One. Is the virus itself which we are letting run out of control in this country, and in places with extremely high levels of transmission. It is almost impossible to imagine how you can open up school safely. The other huge problem is what to do with children who are at home if they are home learning. It was one thing. The country lockdown for several months and everyone thought we can get through it, but it's out forever. But it is not indefinite solution for childcare in America. And if you thought about trying to federal government for help, think again today, political reports the white. House is blocking officials from testifying next week at a Congressional hearing on reopening schools. The trump administration is blocking the scientific experts from publicly-held. Reopening schools. And it seems like everyone. Every school administrator every principal. Every Superintendent every mayor every parent has been basically left to work this out on their own and I'm telling you right now. It is not fair, and it is not going to work. That does it for all in. You can catch every weeknight at eight o'clock on MSNBC. Don't forget to like us on facebook. That's facebook dot. com slash all in with Chris. Hey, everyone is Chris Hayes. Thanks for listening now. I want to invite you to talk to us here. AT MSNBC WE'd like to know more about you and the topics you would be interested in hearing about as we look to launch new podcasts text podcast, two, six, six, eight, six six, and we'll talk to you a link to a short survey again text the word podcast, two six, six, eight, six six standard text messaging rates. Apply your input matters, and we're looking forward to hearing from you.

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The Bachman Books (1985)

Chat Sematary

47:24 min | 2 years ago

The Bachman Books (1985)

"Hey, everyone chat cemetery is back as is Johnny Rawls. We're talking all about the Bachman books today. And this collection includes while it used to include four stories, which were rage. The long walk roadwork and the running man, however newer, editions do not include rage. And I touched on that briefly in the thinner episode, I did with Mike comedy, and it was a decision that Stephen King did have a part in. It wasn't something where it was just banned completely because of its content with it being about a school shooting and all that came with that in that story. So it actually was a mutual decision, which I think, is important to note because it's not like Stephen King was just banned from publishing one of his stories. It was something that. He agreed to take out of print. And so if you buy newer versions of the Bachman books, it will not contain rage or you could just go by the three stories individually if I'm not mistaken. But Madani did you have a chance to get the copy that also had Rajunit had the track down? Read separately. Okay. Wait. The one I had, I found library average it. So I just had to, like, find the story somewhere just read it. Yeah. It's hard to find. Yeah. Like I asked the library like now, we don't have it. There are probably like, yeah, we don't want to have that. In my case, my mom had bought the original paperback copy. So she had one of the eighties copies. So, you know, the collection came out in October of nineteen eighty five so my mom must have bought either that I edition for the paperback or one shortly thereafter, if it was reprinted. I'm not exactly sure I didn't look at the copyright date in or the publishing date in the book, but they did release a later edition in nineteen ninety six, and I'm not totally clear on, if that included rage still, but it included a different introduction titled the importance of being Bachman so that is possibly the one, I had, I'm not really sure I read it had Rajunit that's matters. But I think we can go ahead and dive into. To that story, which, you know, doesn't have too many likable characters, and that's something I think kind of ran throughout these four early novels, and, you know, it is important to note that, while this was published in nineteen eighty five many of these stories were written in the seventies, or at least started in seventies. And then later finished. So each one was, you know, something that Stephen King may be started in high school or college around that age. And you can tell I think, and with rage, it's a story that centers around Charlie decker, who is a senior in high school. And he just decides that he is going to bring a gun to school because he sort of this outsider and he ends up shooting. I wanna say at least two people and it is a. Situation where he basically holds an entire classroom hostage kinda sorta, but not really. And it was just a very strange read in my opinion. We'll given what's happened since then? Yeah. Columbine. And like like all these school shootings that kind of reference from it like the one in Kentucky where like the guy had a copy original. Right. And I think that's what led Stephen King to opt to take it out of print because it was something that they had found, I think not only in one school shooters backpack, but more than one. So it was a story that clearly had some sort of impact on these kids, whether or not it, actually determined, what they did is a whole other thing. You know, they could've easily acted the same way without having read the story. But it is something that treats a school shooting as. Not a big deal. You know, it was very strange how he wrote the characters in this because very few of the students have, what would seem to be the usual reaction to a kid walking into a classroom with gun and shooting people. So you have these high school kids, who, then just end up almost being as sort of twisted as the story itself, and you would think that would be something that he would keep just as the main character, the school shooter, you know, this is a kid who clearly needs some help. But then, by the end of the story, I was like, I think a lot of these kids need help, and it's not necessarily just because, you know, Charlie walked in and shot a couple people, he it seemed like they had all of this stuff, pent up inside of them, and Charlie doing what he did. What is what allowed them to get that all? Out in the world or in that classroom, at least, and it just seemed very odd. It's not necessarily that it was a bad story. I don't really think any of these were super poorly written or anything like that is just some stories need to have like a bowl characters, and this really wasn't one of them even you know, the principal, the teacher's no one was really likeable. And I think that was sort of a big downside for it. I think the only character that was somewhat likable with Ted Jones. Yeah. The person you would not expect to be likable. Yeah. Like the, the popular guy. And in the students beat the hell out of him. Yeah. So he's the only one you really feel bad for at the end. I thank aside from, you know the victims. It's like okay, yeah. I don't really feel bad for most of these high school kids, except for Ted Jones. It's a very odd feeling when you're done rating. This you're like I don't feel right right here. Charlie kills the algebra teacher in then kills history teacher at end, like, like says locker on fire, but like, there's like this is almost like an experiment where he lost them up. They all sorts hell him like embarrassing all like secrets about themselves and other people, and I don't know, if that was set up to like make. It seem wehrley, everybody has secrets, everybody's evil. But I'm like, oh, like this kid living shot like teachers to death. And what not, and like I don't it's weird because, like, I don't know student cameras kind of doing their eat it must separate as Charlie, because he was he had his father was abusive, like it's, it's a kinda has the parallel select the news now. Like when stuff happens this way. And you find out that the kids, you know, there's a school shooting happens. And then it comes out like their background, either, you know, he was. So he was so great. I would've never thought that he would have done this or like he was bullied in school. Like all now is still kill people. You know what I mean? So, yeah, it was weird where Stephen King was kinda trying to pull me when I was reading, I'm like I'm not really supposed to feel sympathy for him, and then like mob mentality where they basically beat the hell outta Ted of where he's. Just like in a coma, or whatever he could leave or whatnot. And then the story ends just, you know, he's he's found not guilty because he's insane. If he's just in, like psychiatric hospital for the rest of life. I guess, and the storage is kinda ends is like out, all right? Yeah, there's no really sense of Justice now not at all. And it was one of those things where because we have seen this happen in the news, you mentioned Columbine. There was actually just another school shooting in Colorado. You know, like a few weeks ago if that and you have, you know, sandy hook all of these things are happening. Even though sandy hook was not, you know, someone who attended the school, committing the shooting, it still has this same effect, like you know who would do something like that. And you don't really feel bad. Even when you do like you said, find out about Charlie's background and I don't know if it was ever Stephen king's intent to make you feel bad for the shooter necessarily, I think it was more a commentary on, hey, these high school kids have all of this stuff building up inside of them. And let's throw them in a school shooting scenario and see how they handle it. And none of it fell realistic really except for when Ted Jones kept trying to do the right thing. And then you have the girl who freaks out, and he eventually, let's go to the bathroom, and she comes back. I was like, y you know, she could've easily gone outside and not had to deal with any of it, but she comes back and I was like, yeah, I don't know something just felt off about it the whole time, and it wasn't great. I mean, I think stories about school shootings are not meant to be great in at the same time either, but there was just something that was a disconnect for me with the story. And I'm sure you know there have been plenty of books on Columbine and sandy hook. And, you know, the Virginia Tech shooting, all of these horrible things that have happened and because those are true stories, I think that's something where you can really get a sense for how people felt in those moments. But with this fictional story. It's like yet, I think one, a little too far in sort of twisting, how things would have actually played out while infuse like, especially kids had like a huge Stockholm syndrome were like with Stockholm syndrome. Like there is like we're in this happened with, like Bank robberies and stuff with that, like where. The captors feel like almost sympathetic to the assailant, and that's what happened here with, you know, Ted Jones and why like brutally beat them with not. But like, I don't know. Like, it's I think, in another way, especially with. Copycats and whatnot. I feel that it kinda gives that commentary to not to say that, like the kids in this particular classroom would win out in, like shot students as well. I mean shot since teachers evolve link. It's interesting to see that which Harley do Charlie doesn't like Olsen hostage comment, like almost turn into claws Charlie's themselves because of all their Hanks, and the fact that like he like with the flashbacks you see the abuse in is almost like Stephen King is like, like you said, we're all these kids have these anx this angst in anger and whatnot. And I think that's what he was trying to go for at the same time. Like, I don't know if you really do that with, sympathizing with, like a murderer, you know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. While shall we move onto the long walk. Now, sure, I think of the. Stories this might have been the one, I like the most even though there are still plenty of unlikeable characters in it because you have one like rage you have quite a few characters in this. You know, it's really, you know, this grim story, though. So basically all of these guys go on this long walk and they're selected seemingly at random, and then you just walk until you can't walk anymore. And then if you can't walk anymore, you're killed. It's like okay. Yeah, we better just keep walking, and obviously, at some point everyone's going to stop walking, you know, sort of a last man standing kind of thing. And you have this sort of shadowy figure the whole time called the major and his presence is felt even when he is not there. He does pop up every now and then but, you know. There are just so many weird things about this story, too. It's like okay, this is not a future United States. I would wanna live in and this isn't the only one of the four stories that take place in the future. We'll get to that more with running man later too. But what were your initial thoughts on the long walk? I think that was all these adaptations, that they're doing with student thing novels. I'm surprised. They haven't done this in. I wonder if they might feel like it would be too, boring. Just watching people walk and walk and walk and walk. I think if done right, it could turn out, really. Well, because you have sort of these little groups that you see along the way. And there's a lot of character work in this one that I think would play really well on screen. But it's one of those things where I think it would be a very, very fine line of an. Adaptation of this being really good. And being a train wreck. Yeah. You have to do since it really connotates place on this walk on. You would have to. I feel like you have to do on a like on the walk and somewhat flashback ish. The kinda like give like an overall view of the alike. Some context of main character Ray Garrity. Hang out with his girlfriend or something like that. Just so it sort of breaks up the mundane walk, you know, there isn't a whole lot happening until someone get shot basically because they have to keep walking, you know they can go to the bathroom, but they get warnings. And if they don't hurry up, they get shots, you know. And you don't really wanna see someone taking a dump onscreen. You know, there are some aspects of the story where I think, like you said, a flashback would work well to just sort of bolster the back story of these characters, and how they were before the walk, because, you know, you get a lot of stories being told throughout this, because what else are they going to just not talk to each other, not tell each other about their lives and everything like that? And you have at least, you know, five or six main characters I already mentioned Ray Garrity. You also have Peter MC fries. Art Baker hang Olson, Gary, Barca, vich, and stebbins who is an illegitimate son of the major, and that's something that comes up, and you can have an interesting moment with them, too. But I think you know, as far as the story itself goes, you know, you have some homophobic characters in this. And that's something that. You read it and you kind of cringe reading it because you're like, oh, this is so very of its time, and you're like, okay, not great. But there's a lot of other things going on as well. And I think those moments were few and far between. You know, it's not like the whole story of these guys revolved around. Okay. You know, this guy is homophobic or anything like that. It was just these brief moments where it kind of took me out of the story because I was like, oh, all right. Especially since it was supposed to take place in the future. I thought that was all although you know, those people still exist today to it's just not pleasant to read about still, you don't allow this in how the Wolpe set up kind of reminded me of the hunger games a little bit, admittedly. I have not read or watch those so I do I do know the gist of the story, though. So, you know, I, I like that comparison you like how. Like a big it only get, you know, the only half like new supplies of warning you'd like requests like fresh canteen every time and then you can only get it from the soldiers whatnot. Like you can have like bodily conflict has long, sustainable road. And then there's like warnings that you get and essentially, that means that you're gonna get killed. Yeah. Any get I believe three warnings. And then it's kinda like three strikes you're out of out, even in the story like they do get three warnings about none of them die. They come very close. I thank. Yeah, they get super close dying out lake sevens was interesting because he's like the like I said, like he's the illegitimate son of the major, but he's also the rabbit, and if you know if you've run races, like or if you run distance like the rabbit is the person that lake you basically, like run your. Face off and. It's weird to me, at least like he's like the extension of his father in encouraging the other voice to keep keep going on ball. Which is rare because he you know, he is like second last on he dies before you know, Darod, but I found that interesting. Hang Olson's, a jerk, and I mean, yeah, but I find it but there's, like sports comparison like, basically, like top trash and dot people in trouble that way, he dies in a really, really gruesome way, which I was expecting like I think his intestines villa stomach. Yeah. Because he takes a shot to the stomach, and they just start sort of falling out, and he keeps going, you know, he doesn't stay down right away. And then he starts screaming at it is this brutal. Scene. And I think the reason this was one of the better stories out of this for me was because of the character work. And even if you don't like all of the characters at least some of them are a little, like, well, you know, you have Peter MC rise who is cynical. But at the same time, he sort of sticks together with Garrity, and they kinda just keep each other going. So, you know, you have people building these friendships along the way, it was not quite like reading the stand, because I think that is sort of just an excellent example of character work for a lot of those characters, but I sort of got that same journeyman feeling reading this that I did when I was reading the standard, even the dark tower that gunslinger because he does a lot of walking in that book. And you know, Stephen King likes. When people have to travel, either by foot or some other way. And I think it really opens up the opportunity to get to know the characters because it's something that is so boring to do. You know, it's not exciting to just read a story, where someone is walking the entire time unless you put in that character work. Those could have been a total disaster, if he hadn't done that you feel blink and this is a ruling walk. I feel like everybody comes on done in their own way, even with Garrity who wins would not he doesn't stop. He actually look Lucent's keeps on going. So it really just goes to show you, like, first of all, like I don't think any of us wanna live in this in this future will now not at all. But, like, yeah, I love how it affected. You know Peter who's like the muscling? I. Gets killed by the soldiers or not like snap ins in art Baker would not wear like Garrity kinda like react to his death would not like it affects each thing that happens to somebody else like it's not only a physical thing. I like that it was the wealth is more of a mental thing, too, because like it, you know, sports, it's kinda like there's a trade off of like physicality and there's also been Taliban, too, and I like how like Stephen King county like did both of these. Yeah, it's just really nice to sort of get that Jack step assertion with all of these characters to they're going through the same exact thing, but they're all handling it. Did it raise, you know Gary bark of each is a total jerk to everyone? He's telling people he's gonna dance on their graves. And then, you know, some of the other guys here. A shot fired and one asks if it was him. And the guy here's him in screams, not yet, and then you know, he just rips his own throat out, so you know that guy is like on a whole other level and you can tell throughout the entire story once he is brought into it. It's like, yeah, let's stay away from that guy because something is off with him. And you just get this look at these characters that I really think you otherwise wouldn't have been able to get. And it'll be interesting to see if this ends up being adapted in the flurry of patients that have been coming. So are you. I think. Find a way to do it words, not were doesn't get just the walk resigned. Like you said like that. If this did the walk it was just like one setting, but twenty minute short short film. So, like, if they find a way if they found a way to really do it the old definitely, while let's move on to roadwork, which is another one. I wasn't too fond of, you know, this dude and his guns and explosives. I like I don't even really if I have to terribly much to say about this, because, you know, we meet this character. He's not exactly down on his luck. He sort of just chooses not to do something, and it, basically ruined his life, you know, he could have just done what he was supposed to do at work, and things would have been fine. But he is sort of becoming this. Anti corporation guy and he's upset because he needs to move out of his house, and buy new one because the land has been bought up and something else is going to be built there. And that's something that's understandable. But when you then factor in the fact that he was offered a fair price for the house. He had a steady job and chose to blow it because he didn't wanna find a new factory for them to work at her. Whatever a noodle caption, for them. It's kind of hard to feel bad for this guy, and he cheats on his wife later, so, you know, really not right. Qualities cheats on his wife. He gets all these Jones later story blows up the damn house, you know, like I don't know in like reading about it in like, what's the thing said it was kind of extension of working through his mother's death. Chancer not. And I think in the story find out that a the character son of all sunlight dies from brain cancer. Right. So like, he basically has an emotional fascinates house yen. I think the son's death is related, the only reason one would sympathize with the character. That's something that obviously impacted both him and his wife. And you know it's understandable. But a lot of his present day situation is simply of his own doing. So then you factor that in is like, you know, I wanted to feel bad for you. But now I find it really hard to feel bad for you. And you know, that's kind of what I meant by a lot of the characters weren't really to likeable in some of these stories, you know, obviously, the long walk had some, but this one it centers around. Dawes. Barden George Dawes to be exact. And you're just like, okay, you know, this is a guy who clearly needed help, and it didn't really seem like he got that help, and he tried to just move on from what had happened, and he ultimately was not able to do that. So then he dug himself into an even deeper hole, and like you said, lure alleges blows up his house with him inside of it will rear because, you know, they're basically demolish of his house in the neighborhood, because they want to build this highway extension. But you find out at the end of the story that they didn't even have to build it once. Yeah, there was no real reason for. So I felt like okay so they didn't want their funding to get cut was the reason they did that. And it is something where you're like, oh man. All of that, and it was for nothing. Yeah. I'm like, okay, so, like, how am I sympathize with him here because the thing that he was rallying against didn't even need to happen like this like pseudo greed, I guess, but like on the way they're like him, you know, him getting explosives in like him, refusing, the money and then him having like, you know, like that affair with that bitch, hyper would not unlike are like is this all, like I get like he has an attachment to the house fit like is all this really necessary man like to go in, like flail against I, I don't know. Like I understand like, it's maybe it's showing what grief does make makes us unreasonable on stuff like that. But a lot of it like you said, seem really excessive I'm like dude, just unity, like, just take the money in building a bigger house. You know what I mean? But sometimes things are priceless. I don't know. Yeah, I get that. I think the whole, you know, losing his job thing was more on him than any else because that was something that was totally unnecessary. Because he thought since his life was being uprooted. He just wouldn't do his job. He screwed so many people over in the process because basically everyone who worked there was out of job because he didn't do his job. And that's something that is not really forgivable. And then he has the balls to go up to one of the co workers and be like, dude, you need to get out of this job that they found for you, because it's a dead end you shouldn't do this, and the guys kind of like dude, this is all your fault. You know. You know, screw you. And he punches him in the face, and you're like, yeah. I don't really feel bad for him at that moment, either, because he walked, right? Into that literally. Yeah. I'm like wild. So, like I understand this happened to you. I understand that you, you were going through circumstances here with not, boy, he turned into real asshole, cost people jobs, like, yeah, you can't just go around ruining other people's lives, and expect them to be okay. With it, and then tell them what to do afterwards, when you don't like what they're doing, like, that's not how it works yet. I can't it's hard like you said, like I, I didn't at first I was like, okay, I get it. But like the steps that he was taking, he basically became Rambo as against who like the. Ecocide construction, people would not like I don't like or like the city's attorney like, are you gonna shoot them? All is just. Yeah. It was just weird. You know. Like I was with you. I was very if your story he athl- the final story. The running man is one that I think had a lot of potential with what it was trying to do. This is another one that was set in the future. And there's this crazy game show sort of thing, and it's, it's very weird. And I know you mentioned that the movie at patient was not really anything like story lease. Please. Different. Yeah. So I haven't seen that. But now, I'm very interested in, you know, seeing what the differences are because I've seen, you know, that Arnold Schwarzenegger is in the movie and that's about it. You know, that's by extent. And I knew it was sort of this futuristic thing. But, you know, there's this place called coop city and that is where Ben Richards lives. He's the main protagonist in this, and he ends up, you know, going to the Games Federation, which is a government mandated television station, and they have these violent game shows that people watch on a TV monitor called a freebie, and it's very big brother. Like, you know, I got some nineteen Eighty-four vibes with this one, and you can sort of get this feeling that you out. None of this is going to end. Well, and it kinda does, but doesn't and. Eventually, you know, a lot of characters in this weren't entirely likable, either. It's like, oh, okay. That's, that's what you're going to do. And that is okay by you. I mean, I guess, sure whatever is reared because like I was texting whenever I read on like this is not. It's definitely not the movie on, if anybody seen the movie, the game show still there, but you have Arnold Schwarzenegger egos frame for something. And like it's, it's literally like the game show as in life. People bet you know, whoever 'cause they have they have the hunters in there. But it's very game show. Like the hunters have personalities a one is fireball. So he, he has flame throwers whatnot. And then okay, so they're specific kind of hunters. Whereas in this third kind of just like random dudes and you don't really know anything about them. They're kind of the shadowy figures and soi. Yeah, it was fairy very weird. And, you know, sometimes the whole dystopia thing works, and sometimes it doesn't, but I feel like in this, the idea of the dystopia, definitely works. Well, it's one of those things where you think you're going to, like the main character, but then, you know, as he does more and more things to get away. Basically, you're kinda like I understand you are running for your life. But, you know, I don't think you're going about this. The best way you know, he's carjacking people threatening lady, and by the end of it when he is with the lady, he carjacked s-. You can't really tell what he's going to do, because he is very, very close to the end of his rope. And you can tell just by everything else that's going on in the story that, you know, this is not going to end. Well, and he takes her hostage. And even if he doesn't intend to hurt her, it's like you still took somebody hostage, and that's not okay. Well, the reason that he's doing this anyway, because his his daughter needs medicine, and his wife is unfortunately a prostitute, right? He's doing this to get money for and nobody's ever won the grand prize up. So while he's doing all this all his badge. Shits Kilian kills his family anyway. Yeah. He killed in now. Now, does he kill them? He kills them what ten days earlier before he goes on the show. So I'm like, oh, wow. And that was like a heart twist move, which, I mean a it Stephen King. Yeah. It's like you want to sympathize with the character at the beginning. And then you just have this horrible situation. That's revealed to you at the end. And you're like okay, so again, this was something that was offer. Nothing like roadwork, it's like all of this for nothing. And I guess, you know, he probably should have known what was going to happen. And I understand that he probably didn't care. What happened the ham long as the daughter got the medicine. But given how shady these people were, I don't know what led him to believe that they would keep their end of any sort of deal, you know, because he is going through this whole process and he asks to see his wife multiple times before. Even actually being hunted. And they just keep putting him off. And he doesn't really seem to think that's weird. So it's like, okay, what is really going on here? Because I think you know, as you're reading this, you can tell that something is off from the beginning. And I think maybe it's just the fact that it's a dystopia where the government runs. By game shows. So, you know, it's very, very strange. And when he was running on the treadmill at first, I was like, please. This guy is going to be running on a treadmill entire story because that would not be fun. So it at least raise the stakes and you know, Ben Richards is still likable innocence. But, you know, like we've said he has to do a lot of bad stuff. And in the end, it's for no reason. So by the end of this, you, you sort of feel depleted yourself. You're like, oh, okay. That's what happened even the game is set up viewers can tell we're gonna get calf rices. Yeah. So it was like our it will, he's never it's just set up for him to lose anyway, right? He meets Bradley and then they try he tells him about like the network in the network dubs over what he says, anyway is like, well he's not gonna win like obviously the network or the government has all bases covered in any find out at the end like you know what I mean? It was really offer. Nothing anyway. Just kinda late is the sad poetic thing like sacrificing himself yak as eve crashes, he land while he lets a million jump off, which is rate. He kills cone, but at any crashes, the plane in into the headquarters in he kills Killian anyway. But yeah, I there was no point in this story when I was reading, Dow's like he's not gonna like there's just too many roadblocks caveats that for him to overcome, you know, like, yeah, I know what you, man. It was definitely a story that. Had potential, and I think it just didn't quite hit the way I was hoping it would. But do you have any last thoughts on this one before we sort of go into some overall final thoughts about the collection? We've pretty much summed it up. Like I like I say, I like the story more than I like a couple of these are probably more than, you know, rage, definitely. There's definitely like potential there. It was definitely interestingly reading the book adaptation from seeing, you know, the movie when I was younger at it be, you know, different and this one is a little bit more grim. Actually, it's a lot more grim. But yeah, yeah, it was it was interesting. And I think it's interesting that scene king Tana two out of four stories. He went until like this futuristically the F the stove, Ian Lang. I'm like, why wouldn't you think of the future? Yeah. Yeah, definitely, and I think for me, you know, if I had to rank these stories from, you know, best to worst in my opinion, I would go with the long walk the running man rage, and then road work. And I think, you know, ragion roadwork kinda tied for me. I, I don't know overall I gave this collection two outta five. It was just one of those things where after I read this. I was like, wow. I need some time, you know. It's one of those things where you just read so much droid of this. Yeah. You just read about so much dread that it was like, oh, man. This kind of took it all. And, you know, when you include rage in this, it's over nine hundred pages of story. So that's a lot of Graham, and I'm reading it now, as I know you are too, and it's just like, wow, that's a lot back to back. That's a lot to take in and yeah, I don't know. I gave it a two out of five initially, I might change that. But overall, I think even though I did like the long walk in the running man better, there were still aspects to the story that I wasn't really fond of. And, you know, some of the language used in these eighties stories are in the case of the Bachman book summer from the seventies like I mentioned, and you kind. Just cringe while reading some of it, because you're like, ooh, this, this part did not age well at all. And, you know, I'm very aware that, that is going to happen a lot. And I think it's something we're going to discuss an it as well because you, you're coming back for that one, and they're so many things in that you're like I don't really wanna read this, but here we go. Oh boy. There's a. Yeah. We got that. Or that next week. And there's a particular partner where well yeah. That's gonna be a wool of a can of worms to get to good Lord. It was tough especially started at rage and what was going on right now? And the fact that. I saw what he was trying to go full. But if you read it and you aren't really kind of like thinking kind of, like what we are doing right now. It seems super sympathetic to the evil person. I'm like, well, what will? Now. Thank you. There's supposed to be like a like a lesson here. Not to do that. In like you said, like reading rage in Kana, running man in a long walk, and there's no, there's really no happy endings to these books and the fact that he felt so unlike bogged down about the future, especially with the long wall and the running man in basically saying that are entertainment is going to be of amusement, in, like, basically, like kill people are not like, and it was always a hoof when I was done reading the bop and books like damn like is he was going through a real dark period. Yeah, it definitely was. And because again, these were early works. I think maybe he was sort of just playing around with a few different ideas and not all of his collections especially more of the short story collections really have this central theme. But I think with these for Bachman novels it felt a little like reading different seasons, which had for novellas in it because there was a lot of character work done in different seasons that worked really well. And you know, I really enjoyed three out of four of those stories whereas with this one, I didn't like it nearly as much, but at the same time you could see where a lot of that character work was stemming from especially with it being his early work. So I think this was something where it was like a stepping stone for him. And I'm kind of glad I ended up talking about the collection as a whole. Instead of separating them out, because, you know, like I mentioned when I started this, it's mostly chronological order, I'm going in, but in the case of this, because one of the novel's rage came out in either leave nineteen seventy seven know that would have been one of the first few episodes, and I don't know, if would've wanted to talk about rage as one of the first few episodes, I think it was sort of nice to have the context of his other early work, and then sort of come to this and be like, okay, I can really see where some of that stuff came from without having to talk about such a Downer subject so early on in the podcast. Niagara we tackle these separately. Liz of one rage to social. That that's just especially like to listen to in light. I know when you are, it's like hell two hundred eleven pages of just Connell like this light, yet rabble of just say, evil. But like it's a gets really Dr. So I think that, while all these books are dark. I think that like when I went to go into rage, and in reading, you know, the long walk kinda like brought it up a little bit. You're mainly, and then when in and in the running main kinda, like all right intimate in Brodrick conscious like why man? So my Brown were kind of like level. It out for me. I'm like, why are you doing this? Why seriously do like why are you doing? It's so. Yeah. I definitely agree buke. I'm actually glad that I haven't liked everything necessarily. Stephen King has done up to this point. I mean, obviously, I've enjoyed a lot of it, and I'm enjoying the whole process of writing this, but I would say this is probably the book I've liked the least out of everything I've read and when I say the book, I sort of made the whole collection, not just, you know, one in particular but I think it was just something that took so much out of Mehta read, I was like, okay gotta get back to Bachmann books, and, you know, when a book feels like a chore to read, I think that's a pretty good sign of, you know, maybe this isn't for me. And if there are people out there who really enjoy these stories. That's cool. You know, they just weren't for me, and, you know, they had horrific things happening, but they didn't really have some of those horror elements that I really enjoy. And Stephen King stories and, you know, the different seasons collection was the same way. But I feel like the character work was just so much. Better in those stories for the most part that I like those better, even though they didn't have, you know, all of these horror elements and I know Stephen King has done things, like you know, there's the Mr. Mercedes trilogy that I will eventually get to and like complete here on the podcast. You know, it's just one of those things where I'm actually kind of glad that it's not like this podcast is going to be Mejia singing, Stephen king's praises the entire time because it was not as much of a fan of this one, but it was still really great discussing it with you. Johnny awami. We kind of do that you don't with some of the Hoover podcasts like yeah. You know, Stephen king's one of my favorite authors to, but like, you know, I don't I don't love everything that he does. And I think that's healthy. I think that, you know, you can have a favorite or you have a favorite movie, and whatnot and still not like aspects of it. And that being totally okay. Yeah. Exactly. Well, thank you so much for coming onto tug about this collection. I know it was a long one and as I mentioned, you'll be back for it, which is even longer. I think we'll have to carve out like an extra amount of time for that one, because so just goes on in. It is a lot of there's a lot of stuff to talk about it. Yeah. Well, that wraps up this episode so to our listeners, you can follow the podcast at chat cemetery on Twitter and Instagram. It would be awesome. If you could rate, a review the podcast, if you have a moment, and as always, thank you all for listening, and we hope you enjoy the rest of your day.

Stephen King Charlie decker Bachman Ted Jones Ray Garrity Peter MC Ben Richards Johnny Rawls Kentucky government Art Baker United States Rajunit Madani Mike comedy Gary bark Stockholm Colorado Arnold Schwarzenegger
Kawhi Leonard AND Paul George Go to the Clippers | The Ringer NBA Show

The NBA Show

40:25 min | 1 year ago

Kawhi Leonard AND Paul George Go to the Clippers | The Ringer NBA Show

"Welcome to the ringer podcast network watchable spin off show on luminary called rewatch was nineteen ninety nine is taking a little summer break but will be back in the fall with more movies including eyes wide shut never been cast and more in the meantime were launching a new show on luminary about another influential moment in nineteen ninety nine called brings us the story of woodstock ninety nine the pod will dive deep conic music festival and how to invest and failures left its mark on history the series begins on to stay till i nine and will be coming to every to stay for eight weeks to make sure to check out breaks up the story of what's up ninety nine oddly metairie low and welcome to a special emergency emergency emergency episode of larry show i am chris ryan i am joined by kevin o'connor icicle years on the deck we've had some earthquakes today in las angeles somebody equilibrium is a little bit off i was in bed watching stranger things and then collide leonard signed with the clippers and paul george got year to the clippers from massive massive massive massive hall of multiple draft picks and she's you'll just out of alexander internal going ari it is mind blowing leak changing landscape altering trading kevin and i are here to break it down in his many ways is possibly can while also feeling completely shocked and stunned so kevin what is your first reaction is trade i thought it was a fake wall street when this was announced the clippers are sending for unprotected first round picks one protected first round pick with two take swaps end say killed us alexander end in l a gallery to get paul george because collide leonard targeted georgians recruiting george as the player he want to go to the clippers in georgia requested a trade from the thunder and they got that massive hall to actually make it happen well chris a i said what's you're instant reaction to the situation i i feel like i am having one of those moments and he mbh where you could you could tell me that you were about the say anything that this isn't amazing easing as the clippers a title contenders now this is gonna change the league you could tell me that the clippers actually gave up too much in this situation i i i'm almost trying to get my mind wrapped around this i think it could be all of those things but the but what matters most is the clippers established himself as one of before medical title contenders in the league the league is wide open and there are many many teams you could make a case for that have a chance to win a chance to win the title however the clippers wanna be the most likely teams to win a title with this pairing look paul george last year is a top two top three mvp candidate for a large portion of the season he's one of the best defensive players in the game playing now alongside quiet leonard also one of the best defensive players and the game two guys that can create their own shot the playoffs are on ball or off ball so this team has two superstars that are leon defense a leadoff ants with a whole group of players still with infrastructure they have with pat beverley really lou williams montrose herrell then bo heartless adding him landry shamet as a shooter a young player like jerome robinson fee undo cabin galley a rookie but still they could bring back guys like move by mood pay an easy got through bots like this team has star power in that and it's very rare to have accommodation like that not just the season but nbs history so for the clippers there may not be be favored but i would have them currently is the favorite in my in my book i love you man but it is way too early in this podcast talking about landry shamet vika zoo bots we have to talk about like the star power in the street okay the michael jordan of bnb eight right now in quiet leonard has his scotty pippin in paul george and are we looking at the presumptive titled favorite's because i i feel like even though they may have given up a lot here in the future this team is gonna have so much focus i mean this this is we thought george want it to come dalai in the first place there seems to be a certain logic to this move short you know that's the funny thing is both these guys had a choice to join lebron and they didn't they just they chose each other ultimately paul george and demanding the trade requesting the trade and then collide with going there these these guys complement each other perfectly chris 'em they they they can play either way you could play either on ball or off ball it's it's not usually when stars joined forces like we saw with the miami heat in their early twenties hands there's a little bit of overlap with skills there with that with lebron james and twain wade both being on ball ball dominant guys we saw that with the warriors with kevin durant first join steph curry hurry in klay thompson and dream on green and there's assist system fit issue for katie after years of being the ball dominant guy but he was playing in and often moves the ball freely with this with these two co why and paul george i don't think there's gonna be much of that adjustment paul george has been the guy in indiana he has been the guy in oklahoma city playing alongside other ball dominant guy and russell westbrook and then for co why his whole life his whole career with the spurs growing into his role playing offense move the ball and then becoming the guy later in his career with the spurs and then this past season with the rappers as an all as a ball dominant for so both these guys fit immediately with the supporting supporting cast around members well yeah you know you you're onto something there because i think we have seen cry emerge as like you're saying this system guy they extension of the dunkin legacy in san antonio a not about himself fall about his team any still very much is that i mean you saw what he gave toronto this year end will talk a little bit about toronto in a few minutes but he goes in toronto any becomes pretty much a league icon in a way that i don't think he was in san antonio and in this way in in the way that he is just handled an orchestrated his mb a free agency by waiting a few days all these other pieces fell and then this deal orchestrated in a way that i don't i don't ever remember anything is shocking happening and then be able to be quite honest and i mean maybe honestly the last time i felt this way when paul george got traded from indiana and oklahoma and that was that that there is no comparison of what we're seeing here quiet leonard not only is is he one of the best players in mbh has be considered one of be the real puppet masters of the league now yeah my my lady things yeah but like think about everything we you know nobody has been able to crack this guy we had kendrick perkins and chris carter were pretty much the only whispers out there exception of maybe jabbari young from the athletic like only guys it any insight we've gone from the clippers to these gonna stay in toronto notes the lakers we all know and now in the middle of the night on friday night of the first native summer league this happens yeah yeah it's it's shocking i i was thinking earlier today chris before this decision happen from co why just how you know we don't know a lot about him but the one thing we do know is is the fact that he's always been about winning he himself is all we said he said during the postseason he doesn't care about being the best player on a team he just wants to win messiah jerry said last month at a basketball borders events that when he first met why cly only had two questions for him right are you staying in toronto and how you make this team better in jerry said everything he they talked about is just about winning every single thing about winning in africa why it's like yes we don't know a whole lot about him but what we do know is he cares about winning and when you look at his options with toronto they were a team that after this season there were a lot of uncertainty is basically their entire roster what's gonna hit free agency marcus all surgery by kyle lowry all in their thirties are gonna be unrestricted pascal seok i'm gonna be restricted free agent fred vanfleet would have been unrestricted then you look at the lakers of course they have the brawn james and of course they have anthony davis but the rest of that roster it looks like it's gonna be changing changing year in year out because they're gonna be signing league minimum guys if the clippers that were the team but also the stability moving forward yeah they didn't have the second star but now they have it winter stability just with less of flexibility moving forward 'cause they gave up so much but collide ultimately got exactly what he wanted in in the sense that he doesn't need ago the have the full circus of the braun in the lakers but he still has a second star alongside him get my ass or the league again yeah why does he he doesn't need lebron to like step aside or help him cemented like like quiet leonard is already won two rings with two different teams and now he's in the driver's seat to win a third woman the third team i mean i don't know like i don't feel like he needed lebron's stamp of approval here i have so many questions like if kevin and i sound like were freaking out because were freaking out we are out i was what i was just like lying in bed watching stranger things when this happened but now i'm starting to come up some questions i'm just gonna ask these is i come sort of as they come to me so words had the description of the situation with oklahoma is essentially according the world after leonard pushed george to find a way to get to the clippers okay i guess contract chris paul george approach the team and requested a trade leak sources tell c n okay see what's left with no choice and made the best out of a difficult situation resources what is no choice mean he repeated that a little bit later to and saying that leonard in georgia matt nellie earlier in the week again like that they had no choice to make a deal i dunno no choice means i i mean i'm not gonna suit up to the thunder next year if you don't treat me the clippers i mean maybe here out of characters stay at a longer away in the sense that paul george only has two guaranteed years left on his deal then he has a player option so george can become an unrestricted free agent in twenty twenty one so remember the conversation in indiana is always about the timing of trade trade a year year in advance you're not gonna get as much for him maybe oklahoma city with thinking the same thing if you bring back paul george per one more season forcing the play with boston adams in roberson their current core but there's the benefits of that in having a chance to make noise in the playoffs outweigh the possibility that then you went turn next summer he's still not happy any still wants a trade and you're not gonna get this massive trade package to me it's not about they have a choice they did have a choice they chose to essentially reset the oklahoma city thunder took be most massive trade package we have ever seen the thunder got more of a paul george then the pelicans got for anthony davis that's what they chose knows it's not like they have a choice it's what they chose this rout this past essentially maybe torrens rebuilding i mean who knows what they're gonna do with russell westbrook but now they have a young point guard they need to develop in say gillis alexander a guy who doesn't really fit next russell westbrook so i think for the thunder they could be a path for the rebuild 'cause russell westbrook is on that same exact contracts that paul george was where he could become a free agent i mean i anything is on the table but i have to tell you given oklahoma cities legacy this this is not feel right this feels a little bit like hardened again this feels like there were rumors a couple of weeks ago a couple of months ago the thunder want it to get under the luxury tax it they did not wanna be paying adams george an ross what they were paying them for a team that was gonna wind up as a second a second round out an that's what this feels like again and i believe the sampras he's a gift a general manager and i don't know what kind of financial limitations he is or isn't working with and just speculating here but to me this is just this is malfeasance man you can't do what you did to get paul george you get that lucky you went into the playoffs last year george could barely lift his arm you have to try again with that team water they doing there i dunno i to me this feeling you had of take it it's like you're getting you're getting so many draft picks here you're getting a really really talented young player and guilt us alexander you're getting a veteran in gallery who you know like maybe you play with him in adams on westberg any running back until they flame out maybe you do that but you could also flip gallon are you could also try to trade russell westbrook and go full rebuild here i it's like a shame that didn't work out with this court but honestly man like i i've long felt russell westbrook until his game changers he's never gonna win a championship and maybe internally with oklahoma city they see that there's just an end to this maybe they see the end and missiles their way out with just this massive massive trade package that gives them suddenly suddenly oklahoma city is in a position where they have more flexibility with their assets moving forward than any other team in bay because what do you think do you think we're gonna wake up tomorrow night at midnight and find out today traded ross the miami i mean who knows can't rule that out really can't cannery i mean why not like who's to say that another team won't be like now is are chance the offer a boatload of draft picks in order to get russell westbrook look who has three more years left on his deal before he has a non guarantee for a player option for the fourth year sofer this is an opportunity here to at least explore the possibility of you're oklahoma city now's the time to listen to the officer us so we spent yeah i mean look shawn's tweeted rival mbh teams have been aware of the discontent of casey's two starts paul george and russell westbrook league sources tell the athletic and leonard push the clippers in recent days the delivering the second store and they did unreal is a light you you could you could reach that two ways you could reach that as paul george and russell westbrook are both have discontent in oklahoma or their discontent with one another a obviously of oklahoma chose the get rid of one of them at least now it would suggest that the george russ team duo is not working even though george pretty much a year ago today where like i'll stay in oklahoma city because of russell westbrook why did so that's the ripple effect for oklahoma city we've talked about what this means for the clippers we could talk much more about like i mean people who are younger you guys don't understand man this is like the bad news bears landing babe ruth this is unbelievable this see the job in the front office in the end loss angeles had the clippers flippers have done to put together the team that they put together the land these two guys in their prime an i i am and all what just happened but let's talk a little bit about the guys across the hallway from the clippers what does this mean for the lakers well they are getting danny green they're signing into a two year contract so that was their plan b with waiting and that's a nice addition for him for them three andy player and danny green 'em but the same questions we've been talking about last week so chris remain how are they gonna fill out the rest of this roster when they've been in god's word word of the decisions but they're gonna make in order to build a complete team around the around the brawn james and anthony davis 'em right now like there's there's not a lot out there they've already signed jared dudley in of course danny green book for the lakers from a big picture perspective like this is not the first time that lebron has had a star player pass on that would they be there's a lot of the clutch element there and bringing eighty two loss angeles but now this is two years in a row now with paul george decided to stay with oklahoma city and then with collide leonard decided to do it his own way with the clippers i think there's something to what has been written about by i think maybe it's rich euchre leach reporter howard back yeah i apologize i forget who exactly who it was but i've heard similar rumblings where guys are hesitant to play with the braun in you know it's a little thing but i can remember a time last season with the braun and outlay and there one time to bail me he came out of the showers and like there's a whole bunch of media members standing inside his lock under he's just like mumbling b f word under under his breath annoyed constantly like saying it over and over again just annoyed at someone who is on his way any ask the medium every politely can you please get out of the way in the media member that really nowhere to go in jail mcgee sat in the locker next next his own locker and was visibly frustrated by it until he walked out and there's other instances like that is well where it's like those little things over time i think add up and players know that players talk to each other about that so we're playing with lebron is on court on it but there's a v off court circus there's a locker room circuses well where i'm sure why knows all about that and he probably doesn't wanna deal with that and now he's gonna have like half the media attention with the clippers as a fall george going there that the lakers on the broader gonna have and so for them if the lakers this is really their their final opportunity to find a star player in free agency and now they don't have the gas is throw their way through through training so i mean of russia's already tweeted about how they felt blindsided yes by collide but especially by the paul george thing and that they felt like they they feel a little bit taken aback by that now dave mcmenamin is saying that the lakers are having conversation with the likes of rage on rondo jail mcgee anka devious caldwellpope about kobayashi i mean look this is such a a high leverage high risk gamble that these two teams took the clippers ultimately if they had the fall back to being this sort of scrappy underdog alley team with a fund young core and a great coach and like we williams has a team icon they could have done that and they could've wound up but the seven seed and everybody would have been great job clippers so you can get in twenty twenty one twenty one the lakers were not playing that game in the lakers have eighty on this year end while i cannot imagine a single possibility there rich paul and not deliver aideed of the lakers lakers and that's apparently where he wants to be there now and a really really really tight spot with an aging lebron eighty in the on the lakers and that's it man they traded the whole team for this guy and they were really counting on this third star to be fair the lakers are still in great shape they have lebron james and anthony davis how any of this matter i mean like everybody's i mean there's some stuff out there about what brought about a top for top five player anymore he's still is when when he's on when he's healthy when he's trying he's still a top five player a an anthony davis is the best young big man in today's game to the lakers it is eighty necessary risk in waiting for co i leonard forever nate davis it was unnecessary moved to make eighty you're not just investing in the next three years of the brawn james you're investing in beyond that when lebron is gone when lebron is old whatever the case may be abs somebody that they hope can be part of the franchise franchise for a long long time for the next ten years they would hope a buffer three years right it's tight we don't know when lebron james declined will begin we don't it's gonna happen it's inevitable what happens where everybody for some players it takes a long long time for the come and maybe that'll be the case for lebron where we have peaked lebron from x three years but it's tight 'cause there's no guarantee of that i know players immortal and so for the lakers they suddenly don't have passed the finding that next guy unless somebody pops unless crews my continues offending becomes a great player but that's unlikely 'em so the lakers this is this is what you are this is what you are until maybe next summer or when maybe some of these short term contracts come up and then you're able to take a swing on another midland trade for bradley beal and they can't trade you know they're they're out of that kind of they they spent all that they had to get somebody like that and the thing was quite coming or player x whoever that superstar third superstars supposed to be with lebron anthony davis is i think that as we saw with toronto this year if you really want you're stars to be in the best possible shape going into the playoffs playoffs you need to manage their low during the season i have mixed feelings about like taking like the sort of prescribe load management stuff like i think i think sometimes it's overblown we don't get into a conversation about that right now but i do think that that was one of the major deals with the third star or was hey let's let's easel load on the bron let's get him down around twenty nine minutes a game right let's play him sixty to sixty five games year rather than seventy seven at thirty six minutes a game chasing mvp or this is supposed to be about about sustainability and now i think there's a little bit more pressure on that duo to make things happen faster so regardless of that yes the lakers will still be a contender the clippers will be a contender kendrick perkins tweeting right now at eleven thirty four on friday night i still can't believe recording of the thirty four on friday night kendrick perkins tweeting i would not be surprised if he gets traded sounds like okay see is throwing in the towel this thing over something is about to happen in okay see clay bennett didn't wanna pay the luxury tax and that goes back to what we were saying before this has echoes of the hard and trade this has just has a bad feeling of like this team sort of having a financials ceiling to their to their ambitions and you have to wonder i mean just just completely spontaneously off top my head here if sam prestige turns around and says you know what i'll go i'll go with the gm in in washington dc that's okay you know what i mean anything me it'd be apparently right i mean i've had to give up if i've lost kevin durant and had the tree james harden and paul george over the last ten years i think i might prefer watching john wall learn how to walk again frankly divider him they saw they saw russell westbrook yes i know so okay let's talk a little taught loads more a ripple effect let's see so let's talk about the team the quiet leaving let's talk about other onto a real feel good story obviously like they now are 'em they are now in a really interesting crossroads they had their a few weeks the celebration i wish i could have lasted longer it was inspiring frankly even is a sixers fan i thought it was really heartwarming awesome to see a team be able to break got the kind of inevitability of the warriors even if it was under some some tough circumstances for golden state what happens next for a what happens next for toronto well i'm not i'm not sure exactly if toronto is gonna go and a full rebuild here but we've talked about this before i talked about over the vernal a lot over the years messiah jerry ever since he got hired in twenty thirteen is one of the rebuild he tried to trade kyle lowry he couldn't get it done he explored the trademark the marta rose and there's nothing out there until it just so happened san antonio had a player who only played nine games who demanded a trade who want about his value in the market wasn't there in the trade collide leonard to the raptors were bertel end marta rosen and they wanna championship but what a story it's amazing the toronto ended up winning the title improbable but now they enter scenario where like we alluded to earlier lowry so he pokka vanfleet nc akam are all free agents next summer sofer co why he looked at the situation and he saw a one year window you could have come back and had a chance at repeating but after that who really knows what would have happened with his toronto roster was such an old core would lowry sony baka and then with fans latency outcome to guys who were really good but are gonna get paid a lot of money then we're gonna get brogden money in seattle is probably gonna get the max and so for co why it wasn't as appealing as going to the clippers and for messiah jiri in assessing the team i do think there is at least some logic to maybe seeing what's out there fergus all during the season maybe try to play at be competitive 'cause i do have some good young players seok eminent endo being banned bleep you after go full rebuild blow it up mode but i think exploring the market in you know going into a retooling period makes a lotta sense where you jerry there's so much market volatility is like if you look at i'm looking at the teams right now and i'm i i'm saying are there more sellers and there are buyers if toronto becomes a seller if dc is getting in dc starts testing the market for beal if if oklahoma city starts testing the market for westbrook end or adams we're all the huge asset collections gonna come from the pay for these guys i guess that's it that's gonna be one of the more fascinating a story lines as we go forward over the next few weeks because we did mattie the knicks okay i mean i talked about this i didn't even do it this is where i am not even seeing this stuff i mean i mean like i just can't well first of all there's not many teams need a point guard so in regards lowry or westbrook especially westbrook in that case if you're the knicks maybe you look for russell westbrook as you're star to be the face of the franchise moving forward as you're a guy who can learn other free agents there's not a lot of teams need a point guard though they're one of them 'em silver lowry in westbrook there's not many homes for them especially 'cause memphis just traded by calmly to yet utah one of the few teams they need a point guard and so it's like it's it's nice assayed you wanna rebuilding the you wanna a trade you're stars or whatever or you're or aging players like marcus soul but you need to find a home for those guys and there would be a market for the solar and ernie baka but apart find value per westbrook making forty million dollars lowry making thirty five million dollars a this coming season it's a lot harder to find trades for those guys that make that amount of money yeah i mean i guess the thing also i feel really bad for the raptors fans because i you know i wouldn't go so far to say it's gonna be like marlins rebuild where the marlins would win the world series and then just completely dissemble the team against their will obviously but i do wonder whether they strip it down and decided to build around seok on an ob although i i would say that i i think i see aquaman anna nobody lead raptors team with the song lowry's probably like a four seed i dunno about that i know that i i don't i don't look i really liked yakim i really really like him 'em and it's nice that were gonna go see him in a position now where he's gonna have more responsibility and maybe he grows into that role but i still so wanna put them over the bucks were the sixers or the revamped pacers or maybe even the celtics depending on what else happens there for them like they're fire the nets for the nets fan with kyri a seven maybe in the east and and like it sucks but for toronto they're the greatest one hit wonder in history and i don't think there's anything wrong with that this is a team that like you said chris they still have good players and they could trade their veteran guys and they'll have a core with a path forward success moving forward especially because of pascal's yakim with what he is because of what this franchise showed this last year with this fan base in this country they got behind them i think a lot so they showed a lot that can make them unappealing franchise for that tony tony one free agent class 'cause everybody like someone someone tweeted me earlier tonight what does this mean for small a small market franchises you have paul george demanding a trade from oklahoma city if quite leonard leaving toronto will turn of not a small market it's one of the biggest markets in the league actually one of the biggest markets in the world so marketing yeah he did national market exactly so they already they can become eight eight destination and franchises specially twenty twentyone a year in which the lakers and the clippers and maybe maybe the nets and maybe the knicks the knicks in the raptors are gonna be the two teams that are these big market destinations over the raptors now i think it's just about building forward building for twentyone building for tony to look like you can be you should you could definitely be mad at quiet leonard but he gave you something that you'll never forget an ultimately at the end of the day that guy got traded to toronto by san antonio that was not his choice it was his choice the enter free agency it's free agency for reason he gets to choose where he wants to play in all credit to him because it turns turns out quiet leonard honestly knows a lot more about team building that i do because he was able to orchestrate this this deal i guess if i have a couple of two more questions before we stop here one is what do you think that this trade says about player power because you and i were chatting briefly on text before we got on the mike an i feel like if we're in a place where paul george and just go to san presi include that and say look this is not only do i wanna leave but this is where i wanna go make make it happen this is starting to just feel a lot more like paul pod but walks into a might manchester united dressing room and says i wanna go to you ventas where i wanna go around madrid make it happen this what do you do it or two years left on a contract not significant enough daschle have the control over the player that you need to build the team around him or not having cap space like we just saw with the miami heat acquiring jimmy butler they were older create cap space out of nothing they look like a team that was locked into their roster for years but they still managed to get jimmy butler on a max contract i dunno i mean i i'm not sure exactly what it means but it certainly does mean the continuation of what we've seen for the last decade or so the players are in control anything get what they want in fence and that's a great thing really i i'm enjoying the era of player movement i know colin coward had a had a nice rant on the heard earlier this week he's like this is this is v evolution of parody where player movement creates parody of star players changing teams all the time so the contenders are always changing i don't necessarily totally agree with that but it makes a bit of sense to me because were just seeing these teams like now oklahoma city goes from a chat a team of maybe a shot to make some noise on this wide open league to a team that's maybe on the verge of a full rebuild toronto goats from a middling team against runs up against the braun wall in the playoffs every year to winning a title and now they're facing a rebuild teams are constantly going from contender surrey the rebuilding all the time 'em buffer players chris i don't know exactly because the thing is is like it's not like oklahoma city got nothing in return here chris paul no okay so trade deadline has the details yeah they have three unprotected first round fixing the clippers in this trade twenty twenty two twenty twenty four and twenty twenty six plus two first from miami the twenty twenty one unprotected twenty twentythree check the twenty twentythree is protected one through fourteen and the right to swap picks with the clippers twenty twentythree in twenty twentyfive wow so unreal that's amazing so they they they essentially rebooted the franchise i don't i i have to imagine would be lane our end with this is happening i just really wanna know what russell westbrook is thinking right now it's fascinating to me and i also think that you know kevin were talking about this parity in were talking about what if super if there's a lot of transactional there's a lot of turnover among superstars and you're creating parody in the league it's not necessarily that erodes fan relationships the teams which is an idea that it's kinda like chewing on earlier in the week i think what it does is it just goes counter the league's legacy of dynastic teams it's gonna be harder and harder to put together a five mbh title winning team even over the course of ten years twelve years a then it was back in say the eighties in the nineties when when you had a lakers celtics in a bull sort of running the table offer for such a long period of time is this something bnb needs to solve 'em or is it just like let it be let it be the way it is where players you know don't gonna put the genie back in the bottle i don't think you could say all all of a sudden like now i mean i think what will see is maybe the general managers are gonna have to adjust to the the the whims of players maybe this means you're gonna start seeing a lot more short term contracts maybe we're gonna start seeing longer contracts were younger players players detroit a lock them in four more years i don't really know how we could all of a sudden turnaround it'll posts lebron era and say yeah player movement on this level with this kind of volatility means you know you'd have to imagine that anybody who would baby renewed their season tickets in oklahoma gonna be making phone calls right now yeah that's the thing that that's where you start to see trickle down effects and small markets and that's where you start to see the ripple effects and i don't think there's anything adam silver can do about this a i just think they it's going to have a larger impact and just like sick you love to see it clippers like this is gonna be a major thing that the league is gonna have the rapids hands around i know especially for from a small market perspective 'em because you do have all these stars flooding to big markets except for the knicks will be about that in the future 'em yeah you know what people don't wanna play apparently or lakers index so the more unless they were they did the same unless unless there was clients yes right all right let's let's kinda like bring the plane down a little bit here what what are some of your final thoughts as we've been kind of talking through are reactions were thirty five minutes 'em i i think they my big one is really more shoes they're gonna drop from this it'll be interesting to see how rob pelinka survive this what lebron's reaction is to this what sam press these response and statements are about this on sunday how russell russell westbrook feels about this how toronto feels about this what this does to the rest of the league because right now i think rick clippers obviously have just made themselves western conference favorites if not heavy heavy contenders but i think it's almost gonna be more fascinating see how this this trade impacts the rest of the league for months and years to come from me it's always try to think outside the box when it comes to rumors like this because the hints were there the hint this time with paul george was the co why talk to kevin durant's about trying to team up with him so that wasn't indication of one thing for sure that collide leonard desired a relationship with another superstar player on a team in and also hinted the possibility that the preference was not with the lakers if he was looking for kevin durant's sign up to join forces with him at least wasn't indication that maybe the lakers one of the preference so when it comes to that i was thinking like oh maybe he could have there could be a mystery team maybe he could try to look at another team like the warriors and whatever and do some sign and trade there to get to the get there by then it happened of course but it was actually just a mystery player in the sense with paul george so when it comes to all these rumors and everything that's ever out there from words inside and whoever else you gotta redo between the lines and start thinking of like in the way of team does over the clippers it was like why is well if what is the next guy but they have to acquire in order to get this guy so this trade they gave up everything it's not just for paul george though it was also for colline leonard a so that's really my main thought harris like be writing so this is an active yeah it's the if you look at the if you're having sticker shock at what they gave the thunder think about it also in terms of what they gave the league basically or the basketball guides for why leonard and the thunder i'm sure i'm sure i would have been like redo inside a trader something if you've general but you know what it's worth it because now they are built for sustained contention for the next five plus years assuming these guys don't demand trades at some point that's what the thunder essentially counting on raise that maybe in three years or whatever when go why leonard decides to just i dunno be the first great basketball player on the moon or something that these picks will start disorder really pay dividends it ends but a it's it's fascinating to see them play the long game like this i don't know what's gonna happen it's under the more we talk about it the more i'm fascinated with that what a coup for the clippers man i can't believe the clippers did this they have two of the best seven six seven players and dnb ale around yeah in one of the best that a bench is is well they have lou williams six man of the year with montrose herrell his partner in crime and the pick and rolls over the clippers slippers they have the supporting cast around these two stars and the other part of it though curses like i think it officers importance of having organizational lyman top to bottom this team from steve bomber in an ownership and ways lawrence frank frank in the front office all the guys if they kept all the guys they hired with doc rivers on the coaching staff down the players they they or organization that has one goal in the same objectives moving forward and there's so many teams across the league where front offices have one idea of how to build in the coaching staff has another an ownership doesn't wanna make the risk necessary at the front office does all this dysfunction across the league but the clippers suddenly from the donald sterling days to what they are now are one of the model franchises in sports edits because they have an organization with aligned goals and that's what was appealing to collide leonard and ultimately paul george so for this team they servative as an example for the rest of the league that guess so what if something's wrong and organization baby starts will be owner and that's not so many consult but if it is something new york and solve finding the right people in their organization can create the situation for you to make moves like this getting hawaii leonard and getting paul george well a it's still terrifies me by the way they did not include landry shamet industry because it makes me feel like jerry west thinks he's the reincarnation of rick gates were sixers red states kevin thank you so much for pulling a the late shift with me here isaac thank you for oh my god we don't even ask guys like what he thinks the eyes of going on a happier fuck i know tickets out man yeah sure i am in a state of total euphoria i have never felt this happy in my life like i feel a journal in my joints right now it's incredible i i honestly don't even know how to process it this whole time i'm like china pay attention i'm trying to produce the show but i'm also like in my head i'm just like championships coop city chip city championship championship so yeah that's where i'm at least so so so happy for you man i'm happy for all clippers fans i'm sorry for a raptors fans i'm sorry for thunder fans i'm excited for mbh fans because it's gonna be

leonard clippers paul george georgia larry chris ryan kevin o'connor las angeles three years ten years two years thirty five million dollars forty million dollars thirty five minutes twenty nine minutes thirty six minutes twelve years eight weeks one year two year
Episode 104: 24/7, with Sarah Feinberg and Janno Lieber

What's The [DATA] Point?

56:34 min | Last month

Episode 104: 24/7, with Sarah Feinberg and Janno Lieber

"Uh twenty four seven. That's the number of hours in the day and days in the week. The new yorkers traditionally a pat and want their subways view but during the pandemic the mta. Close the subway from one to five. Am fourteen disinfecting to make the subway safer and give riders the confidence. They need to return to the system but the mta is on a path back to full service. This is only one response to a pandemic. In recession that ravaged the as did other public services the mta is the lifeblood of the region's economy off often. Our individual lives. It was hit incredibly hard by the pandemic. It's retinues plummeted. Ridership declined and dedicated. Taxes slumped with the economy. It's workers bravely showed up and served other essential workers then those returning to their offices and plan and sorely needed capital investment was temporarily dramatically reduced. Now with a massive infusion of federal funds slowly returning ridership pmt as fiscally stable for the near and mid term and serving more and more riders and funds will start to be available to accelerate the capital investment. But we're still far from out of the woods in this episode of what's the data point we listened to my recent conversation with two leaders will chart and manage the course forward for the mta interim president of new york city transit sarah feinberg mta chief development officer and president construction and development. Jon lieber may provide an indepth look at the past. Year was like in their lessons. Learned what will the next few years look like. And what's the mta's path forward will level of services with the mta provide in the short term and in the long run. Will it have the resources to fund ambitious capital plan. And what are the projects most in need as well as what are the opportunities to increase the operating efficiency so the mta could be financially stable. Once the federal funds are exhausted. We'll be back very soon with our next episode hosted by ben max and my predecessor in good friend being comparable cower kellerman in the meantime. Please keep sending your ideas to benefit myself at tweet. Ben max and andress ryan keep abreast of elitist news and fiscal analysis at gotham gazette dot com and that cbc dot org so welcome the to review. Thank you very much. We usually end like certain things with lightning rounds. I'd like to ask a short question if we can't in the beginning that's okay with you and that would could you share with us just opening up one or two things you learned over the last year that might help us manage the system going forward if you have any of that. Wanna turn to january. First since i've known you longer. I can put you on the spot. Easier so general. Thank you very much welcomed so once you learn. I think they're two points. That i would make one is an it goes to the heart of what the cbc's mission is. I just want to start by saying you know when new york is having challenges one of the great things about new is the constellation of civic organizations and engage people who don't actually work in government that help us solve problems. Get back on our feet. We've seen it again and again. Cbc still represents the gold standard of that kind of civic organization. And we're lucky to have you. Participating in the conversation shout out to carol calorie predecessor and the great leadership that cbc has had and we all wanna be back at the pierre next year. god willing. it's possible. I think what we found out. Is that the mta had a double hit. Because of the way it's financed. We are more dependent on fare. Box revenue our business models more depending on fare box revenue and every other transit system in the united states save one and that used to be considered a sign of good management and responsible. We're using user fees to self finance and so on that became you know one of the reasons that we entered into crisis economically almost immediately and then the other reality is that our other subsidies are dependent on economic activity. So those two things meant that the mta most almost immediately was in financial crisis. You all know about it. We were losing two hundred million dollars a week. It was. We were bailed out by hometown. Hero chuck schumer and the new york delegation and congressional leadership with fourteen billion over three different bills. But it reminds us that we federal support is unnecessary lifeline. But we to make sure that as we come back we have an economic model that is capable of withstanding some of the new realities. The second thing that i learned is how lucky we are to have our kind of passionate civically minded union. Construction workforce because when transit infrastructure was declared essential. They showed up every day in the pan during the pandemic. Just like the workforce and we were able to keep to take advantage of the fact that we had less people riding the system to actually get more projects completed on a dollar basis than any other year. Mta history you know. So we had incredible productivity. We never had more than seven or eight percent of our projects. Shut down because of covid. We instituted safe work. And the workforce showed up as they did after nine eleven and this was justice heroic and we're old indebted to the transit workers. Sarah leads but i also wanna shout out to the the union construction workers who who have a kind of a civic spirit that came through in this pandemic. thanks jen. we'll come back to work. I think that's very interesting. What you've learned construction-wise and when we talked a couple of weeks ago. I was fascinated. About how much did get on sarah. What are what are one or two things. You learned over the last year that we should take carrying forward. Thank you well first of all. Thank you for having me. And it's great to see you again and hard to believe that. The last time i saw you in person we were in that green room not wearing masks and contemplating what was to come to a couple of things. I think i've learned over the last year. I thank you for your comments about about the. Mta workforce one of the things. I've learned is that there's no better workforce in the country than this workforce certainly essential workers in showing up day in and day out but really taking sort of their sense of of public service seriously and realizing that they were really in so many moments over the last year. The ones that literally carried the city on their backs to get to the other side of this thing. Not that we're there yet. But we're getting close. And so the the resilience and the dependability and the just Performance of this workforce has been unbelievable. Resilient to i mean i think this system has been has been unbelievably resilient. We've asked so much of the workforce. We've asked so much of everyone who works here. We best so much of this of this system in its just pounded through this pandemic day after day. And it's been an honor to be a part of it. I guess the other thing. I've learned is this is a fifty. Five thousand person workforce. This is a massive. Mta is a massive agency largest system in north america. Lots of moving parts and huge bureaucracy. And i don't say that necessarily in a negative way. It's just a huge entity and there i would never have dreamt that this that this bureaucracy or this agency could move quickly on anything you know. My experience on the board was that it's a it's a wonderful agency that does does that does important work every day. But it's we're not quick about it you know we don't turn on a dime but one thing we learned in this pandemic actually this agency can turn on a dime. It can turn very quickly when it has to and when everybody can come together we can do things like shut the system overnight every night which we've never done in one hundred years but we did pretty darn well the first night and beautifully the second night and by the third night we were perfect. And we've been perfect ever sense and when we have had little mini crises. Come up. you know we've realized that we can move really quickly to address them. You know when we have to figure out how to distribute to single employees and make sure that they've got enough to get them through the week or the two weeks of the month we can do it on a dime and so part of what i learned is is That ripping the band aid off. And just saying we're going forward and seventy two hours is the way to go in this agency can can respond and stick an important. An important lesson going forward when there are challenges. Ahead sir. Why don't we start with you in terms of level setting where we are now. Could you just go through with us. How low ridership went where you where we are now and what you project in the future hawk with the comes back and also if you can talk about what rush hour looks like is that the same or different so in the darkest days at the height of the pandemic we were at. I want to say five. Six percent ridership. The we definitely got to a point where. I didn't think that the numbers could go any lower and then they kept going lower and some of you may have been in the system every day at that time i certainly was. I know geno was as well and the place was desolate. Mta workers nurses doctors pharmacists couple. Construction workers and grocery store workers and that was about it. So it extremely desolate. And we're now we've been steadily chipping away at it. We're at about on the subway word about thirty one. Thirty two percent ridership on buses. We've come back. Farther and faster. Were fifty ish percent ridership. I think honestly we hit a high yesterday on the subways. Or i'm sorry. Two days ago on the subways. Frankly if this were not The week of passover and easter and spring break and kids not going to school and people some people travelling. Frankly think we probably would have hit two million Either at the end of last week at the beginning of this week. And maybe we still will but but it's feeling a little empty out there right now during during during this holiday season. So look i think. We're chipping away at it all the time and we are back at nearly full service. We've had a debate over the last several weeks. Couple of months about with ridership down in the thirties. Should we be rightsizing service. Should we be changing service for the next six months for the next year so that we're running less service. That's more reflective of the number of people who were riding and. I'm glad to be able to say this morning that we've sort of taken that debate off the table for now. We've decided that we're going to continue to run full service and in fact we're going to the two months that have been a little off a full-service sea in the f. We're now going to bring back to full service. I think that's the right thing to do to make sure that all of our cnn riders are getting is as much service as they possibly can and as much social distance as possible. Take us to bring the f. Back ethel comeback first and then the the c. afterwards but you know that sets us back at at one hundred percent full service and i think that's the right place to be as we do our part to bring the city back to bring the economy back. I think the reality is is if there's not a transit system that is safe and running efficient service and running a lot of service to greet the city as it comes back. We're going to struggle. And so we're gonna make sure we do our part to to help bring the city back. Thanks very much. We're gonna come back to that in a second. But i want to bring general back for a second and talk about the last year as we're as we're as you said and alluded to i'd like to understand a little more. What did you get done. This was you know when we all sat. In march businesses nonprofits public sector is like. What are we gonna do this year. What's it gonna look like and it sounds amazing like you got a lot done despite so please toss well. Yeah i mean. I think highlights again as i said. We got more projects completed on a dollar basis than ever before it. Mta history over seven billion dollars of projects. a lot of that was eighty projects. One of the things that we've all been become more and more conscious of that that that transit system which has four hundred seventy odd stations is way behind where we would like you to be to have full accessibility under ada and otherwise so we knocked out eleven stations last year and that was a high. That was as many as i think. We're done in the six or seven prior years altogether so we really focused on on ada. We also looked at accelerating a variety of station projects because we could close down entrances with less ridership. We could be more aggressive about closing down. Entrances overnight closures that sarah and the team at transit instituted for in order to facilitate the cleaning that incredible cleaning operation that gave new yorkers a lot of confidence those who returned to the system we were we were able to extend outages get much longer outages to get more work done to give a contractor access to track or two stations to do other work so it was. It was a mix of work But a lot of it was as i said a lot of the progress you know. We always talk about the transit system as we should but the commuter railroads we were able to get huge amount of work done especially on the long island railroad third track project where we way ahead of schedule eliminated eight grade crossings. Which historically been the source of all kinds of terrible auto accidents including one that killed several people just barely a year ago so eliminating grade crossings so that the railroad can run fast and their two hundred trains running through that area every every day and making it more efficient for people who live there less noise and so on and so on so there was a ton of work done in transit. Especially because sarah was able to give us the outages to do work but also on the commuter railroads as well and so geno just a dollar figuring. I want to look to the future for a second How much did you get out the door. But last year because one of the challenges with such needs And the throughput issue. We've talked about this before. How much did you get out the door last year. But what. I think. You know this andrew. But i'll just repeat it because we at the beginning of the year when the capital program. The new twenty twenty four capital program was announced and set in motion. The beginning of twenty twenty. We aspired to do thirteen billion of new contract awards. That's to say. Do the procurement thirteen billion to keep up with the pace that we had set in the end we were only able to do five billion five and a half billion but it was nevertheless i think the second or third biggest year the mta ever had in terms of new contract awards and the challenge is now that again. Thanks to chuck schumer and others we have secured the operating budget and the capital budget is starting to come back together. It's by no means there. We have some more flexibility. Because we know we're going to be able to use for example. The internet sales tax component to bond more You know several billion dollars in the coming year according to cfo. bob veran. We're counting on being able to ramp up but we because we didn't know whether we're going to have to use all the capital money for operating at the second half of two thousand and twenty. We basically shut down the pipeline other than federally funded projects and now. The challenge is to quickly get through procurement to get all this work that we we now are able to do on the stabilization the operating budget and to get out on the street and to into get it into construction. So we'll come back to the operating but in a second but just want one more jonah. So big picture as we talked about what is it. Fifteen months ago there was a fifty four billion dollar capital plan those front eighteen billion from prior plants. That we're in the seventy billion dollar range as you said. The i'm jay is at maxed on five or six billion a year. I can do them six times. Five doesn't get seventy and now that the fifty four billion dollar plan is fifty billion congestion pricing ten billion on the sales tax and mansion taxing. Hansman i'm seven billion federal formula three billion each from the state in the city and nine point eight from the operating budget. Whether it be pays you go or bonded job. How much do you think you really have of that. Fifty four billion available in the next four years. I i think. How do you prioritize. Okay well i first of all we. We have the federal money. We have the the bridges and tunnels sinding. from paul's. We have the state money that you alluded to and the city money. I think we have a high level of confidence. Who's gonna show up. And as i said earlier new piece that we have more much confidence in his that. Roughly twenty percent. That was coming from bonding based on the internet sales tax in the mansion tax. That's the piece that has come back to the capital program most recently. But we're excited that we have an administration that may we're hopeful is going to let us start to move forward on central business district tolling so that which constituted fifteen billion of that fifty five billion that you just mentioned is certainly something that we're we're starting to be hopeful and then the last i think as you said twenty percent of the program is you know. Mta traditional transportation revenue bonds or pay go capital which is probably which was always meant to be the last element of the program. So we're gonna have to see if the the mta's overall financial situation stabilizes as the program evolves will know how much of that we get but that all equals were at about fifty percent of the original program and and we're hopeful that with positive federal action not just on congestion pricing but also on the second avenue subway which is a big Grant that is pending before the fed's has been there for years under the trump administration that we're going to get well into the second half of that fifty five billion dollar capital program. So do you have a prioritized list of those projects because it was you know as you said in a fifty percent of big number is still a bigger number than than you've had before. How have you prioritized those programs. Is there a list that we can be looking at. How do you how do you structure that And the first thing i have to say is that we work with the agencies in the dark days of covid we work with the agencies on some you know which were the downside scenarios. What do we have to do to maintain state of good repair to make sure that the system doesn't degrade the way it did after frankly after the financial crisis not not so Yeah pretty recent memory. So that is always going to be the first part of the safety projects and the state of good repair projects. Now after that we have ongoing important you know a expansion projects are improvement projects and then we beyond that. We've we prioritize among other things. Ada the ada projects we want to continue to make project pirates on that. We re signalling which. Sarah has been a leader in in in thinking through and helping us to implement. We wanna make sure that we're continuing to re signal signals. On many of these lines are eighty plus years old. We cannot continue to maintain those and maintain the system so those are among the priorities. We also one project one expansion project we wanna make sure we get going is hand access. There's that running metro north trains on the amtrak. Hell gate lines through the bronx will allow us to have four new stations in the east. Bronx which is a transit desert. Those people are trying to get two jobs in midtown. Xm an hour and a half Coop city they can't get two jobs in the suburbs. Like other people who are in the bronx on the metro north system. So we wanna make sure that that project halfway through procurement when we stopped for covid is able to be resumed. That's a priority. I mean it's quite a challenge because there are so many great needs obviously state of good repair. It's always been fardie for all of us. Not only because it reduces it increases steve reliability service but it also reduces ongoing maintenance costs and very high priority. That a lot of issues there. Sarah let's turn back to you so the operating budget amazingly i mean and John's mentioned Senator schumer and our our our delegations on missing works in washington. There has been there was a three point. Nine billion dollars in four billion dollar pot than borrowing from the federal municipal liquidity facility. Two point nine billion and then six point five billion more coming and that is really stabilized. The operating budget obviously has general said allowing the capital program to move forward. But certainly giving you the runway to manage the system but then drops off a bit of a clip. And i think it's twenty twenty four where the structural gap of two two and a half billion is then revealed without that what are the opportunities for efficiency. How do you deal with running the system given that you have that runway for a few years. Maybe that's the wrong analogy in subways. But you have that run for a few years. How can you increase efficiency in the system and especially as you said you want resume one hundred percents service to contradict that efficiency needed at all. Well look first of all. That's a runway that i couldn't even imagined having six months ago nine months ago even three months ago i mean and frankly having worked in the federal government. It is still to this moment. Blows my mind that we've been able to get the assistance that we've gotten from our from our congressional delegation and has there ever been a lesson that having an activist governor who cares about this stuff and having chuck schumer be the majority leader matters. I mean it's just it like new york. I can't even express what good shape we are in a given our congressional delegation. So that's runway. I didn't even think i would have but to your point. Look there are huge efficiencies. I think that we can continue to find at transit. You know just. During the pandemic. I talked about the finding that the agency actually can turn on a dime when it needs to and all credit to the workforce for being able to do that but additionally we have started to find a lot of efficiencies in each section of transit whether it's maintenance of way or are te'o or or track or whatever the department is and this is certainly absolutely no criticism of my predecessors because i think every president that comes into transit is faced with sort of their own challenges and but the challenge some of the challenges i've faced with. We need to find some efficiencies and we need to make sure that we're doing everything we can to keep this system going on fewer resources than we've ever had before and frankly we've found those efficiencies we've found ways to to become more more effective more efficient and to build new processes into the way that we're doing things that i think make us a better organization so we're a long way from perfect now. We've got a long way to go. But i feel like we're a progress every day and becoming more efficient organization and to be honest. You know we weren't particularly efficient for a long time and that's not surprising. I think to anyone who knows the mta well and who has has has seen the way that we operate. Were getting better all the time. And i'm certainly proud of the progress that we've made. But when i when i say i want us to run full service. That doesn't mean that. I don't think that we should be making adjustments to make sure they can get everything done that he needs to get done. And look my preference is Do mine outages for longer periods of time to make sure the geno has the time in the space that he needs to get big projects done and i think one of the things we found during the pandemic. Is that if you talk to new yorkers like adults if you explain the need to close down the system for certain periods of time because you're doing construction you're doing really important maintenance that's going to save them time and that's gonna make their commute. More efficient in the long run people are adults and they can handle that news and they can work around you give him as much notice is possible. And you say please. We're going to run shuttles and this is how we're going to help you get where you need to go over this period of three months or four months or whatever geno gets the space and time that he needs to be really efficient on his projects and the whole thing moves a lot better so i absolutely. I'm going to run full service. And i'm going to make sure that everyone feels like they've got all the services. They need to return to their commute return to their workplace. But we're also going to be smart about the ways we get our capital work done. Thank you have you found Have you found that. There are any opportunities working with labor on the on. The contract contractual work. Rules are other issues. That actually need contractual changes that can increase efficiency more when we benchmarked. We looked at subway productivity overall and bus activity which were lower than the median of other large systems. And some of that might be. Structures are not just compensation but actually the structures of our our rules in in deployment. Is there anything that should be done on that side. Look i'm not going to negotiate with our labor partners. An open form of course but but i guess i will just say that not everything lives in the contract and i feel like you know by meeting our labor partners. Halfway we're finding efficiencies that aren't necessarily living in the contract that are making the entire place not only more efficient for our customers. But you know make things a little easier on the workforce's well so there's a way to to have the two groups come together and it doesn't necessarily have to be negotiated within a contract. Thanks one other efficiency idea that other systems have done more than we have an olympic one person train operation. Have we considered whether there are more opportunities new york this. You know i look. I think it's always in the background. Because as technology makes these giant leaps forward. We know that that's that that's on the horizon one day. It's certainly not something that i'm thinking about right now because it just feels like it's it's pretty far down the road And so look. I think anyone in transit. Anyone in rail and freight rail is watched particularly freight rail is watched. Ptc come online. And passenger watched t t come online and knows that there are You know those systems that want to go to one person or know person operation at some point. There are opportunities there. That's not something. We're looking at something i'm looking at can't excuse me. I can't really see a future for that at this moment in time. But certainly it's something that we should continue to keep our eye on certain. Let's talk a little bit safety quickly before we talk about the future. this is. let's i will talk about on the operating side and then john on construction side. What have you done to keep staff and riders save. We a critical issue for people to feel safe on the subway. There's crime and how how is the progress they're going. Are those concerns real. What should be done in the future. So look we clear certainly to to those of us the mta that that people feeling confidence in the system confidence in returning to the system is really important. And frankly as we've done customer surveys over the last year that's just been confirmed. I mean these are numbers in the sixties and seventies low seventies high seventies of people saying my number one priority in this system is to make sure i feel safe from covid and my number two priority is to make sure that i feel safe from any kind of other incident whether it's crime or assault or or harassment and so these are critical issues to our customers and it is incumbent on us to make sure that we're listening to those and we are acting on those and we're making sure that our customers feel confidence so i'm the cleaning front. It's not just making sure that the system is clean and safe and disinfected but it's making sure that customers are seeing it they have to have confidence says they're returning to their commute so you don't just the work but you show your work right so everyone in the system is masked it's the law we're at ninety seven ninety eight percent mass compliance which to this day blows my mind but we have traffic checkers and and compliance folks out in the system every day looking watching those faces and making sure and we are one hundred percent at ninety seven ninety eight percent compliance on people. Coming into the system with masks credit to the workforce for the way they've been able to clean the system we're cleaning stations twice a day. We are cleaning cars three four five six times a day. It's it is really rare for me to be a railcar over the last say nine months and to see anything but you know a really a really clean car certainly cleaner car than than i had ever seen pre pandemic look the idea is we've got a whole bunch of people who've been using the system every single day throughout the pandemic those folks have no choice right. They've been in the system. They've seen us at our darkest days. They've stayed with us and they're still with us today. As people come back to the system dip their toe in their commute as they contemplate coming back to the office as they contemplate you know using the system to go see family to return to church to return to civic life. We want them to look around and say this is an agency that has taken care of the system. This is a workforce. That's mindful of making sure that we're protected from covid and the my fellow customers are all wearing masks. I feel safe here at cobo on crime. Look this is a real issue. The numbers have been going up for more than a year We absolutely need a stronger uniformed presence in the system. We've been very clear with the mayor with city. Hall with the nypd. We feel like we need folks to come back into the system. I would like to see a uniformed presence in every station. frankly on every platform. We're at a critical moment where people have to come back into the system and they have to feel like they're safe and not only do they have to actually be safe but they need to feel safe. This has been a lonely campaign. They're not a lot of people out there willing to talk about the fact that we need a more significant presence in the system but for those of you who are contemplating coming back to the system. Yourself bringing your workforce back upbringing your employees back. I think this is a really important issue and This system doesn't work in less everyone who is entering. It feels like they are safe whether those are essential workers who are going to work kids going to school. Parents putting their kids on a bus or on a subway are elderly population using the system. Because it's the most reliable way for them to get around it just doesn't work otherwise and so you know it's it's a bit of a lonely campaign For now but i think it's critically important and you know i've said for a long time i feel like it's my job and my responsibility to make sure that people are safe. From the moment they enter the system into the moment they leave the system. And and that's gonna continue to sort of be my mantra as long as i'm in this job and so i think that the way that we keep people safer is is to have more mental health resources in the system in a more of a uniform presence in the system. And i think that's gonna get us over the hump where we need to pay. Thank you thank you. Critical issue johnno in terms of safety of the workers. Doing construction there is. Obviously you know different protocols. And we'll see how they evolve. Do you anticipate safety safety. Protocols increase in the cost of your capital plan not in fact. It's one way to manage cost if you have a great safety record and that's just good construction practice. It's rule one of construction that people have to operate safely for themselves and for everybody around. Who's operate who's who's around these facilities but mostly for the construction workers themselves but the ultimate goal is not only safety of the workforce and making sure everybody goes home every day but ultimately that will reduce your insurance costs and frankly insurance is a huge issue in new york. We have a complicated system that has whatever set of reasons has led. New york's construction insurance to be among the very highest. And i was struggling with this when i was in the private sector. We were looking among other things for terrorism insurance. But it's really a cute in the construction environment in new york and we need to. We need to be creative and bring people together to address that element of our cost. But you know going slightly. More broadly andrew. I would say that we are making progress on. Construction costs and project costs. It's no secret that i worked with a couple of key. Board members in including scott wrestler. Who's now the chairman of the rpi and and a knowledgeable developer and builder himself to come up with. We call a cost containment initiative with changing all of the mta contracts to eliminate disincentives for contractors to participate all during covid. One benefit of covid. Is that. Sarah said we've turned on a dime and immediately instituted fully electronic procurement which the mta had been rather slow in adapting to. It was crazy that contractors were having to walk in boxes of proposals instead of doing things that you could do on your amazon screen. Just push a single button So we've had some success. We the ada stations we bit. We awarded at the end of last year. We're fully forty percent below the number that was in the capital program which is a projection. But it was the number. The cost for those stations was way below. We finished the rutgers project which is like the l. train project but it was the train time of the last of the sandy tunnels that need to be completed. It was finished this week on time on budget and it was originally awarded less below. Its projected costs in. We did that in eight months and again kudos to sarah and the team at transit forgiving us this night and weekend outages. The made it possible. So we're making progress on the construction costs side as well as just getting more work done and we will continue to focus on that as well as the safety aspect of that equation. thank you. it's critically important as we know. I just looked the the did the eastside access from twinkle in an eye to fine allom causes multiple factor. And that's exactly one of the one of the problems not only. Do you have ambitious. Capital program needs if they inflate by delays or on cost cost overruns will be even more challenging on. Let's quickly we want to get to questions reminding people they can use the qa function but just quickly one or two things about the future because we know that ridership has according to begin. Study coming back. Ninety two eighty to ninety percent. We'll see what actually happens. We know that we have new technologies. We have Telecommuting on will happen. We have car-sharing autonomous vehicles on micro transit bikes these all fact demand and usage patterns just quickly one or two things that you are doing differently because the future will not be the same as current. Sarah we could turn to you quickly and then geno well. You know i knew a lot of people are telecommuting. I'm not and i think the vast majority of look. I think i'll be honest. I think the thought that people aren't going to come back to the office and that the future is working from home is actually a not accurate. I think we're in a moment where people are working from home but people want to come back. They want to come back. The and i'm not saying they necessarily mr commute but i think many people do but you know folks wanna come back to a civic center to seeing their colleagues to being out of the house to sending their kids to school and going off to the office themselves going off to the workplace themselves and then and then coming back at night so i look. I think that we're sort of overthinking. Will people come back or not. I slightly believe that they will. And that's one of the reasons why we have to be ready for them to come back. We can't fix a lot of this stuff. Once people start to contemplate coming back. We've got to fix it now and we have to have a system that safe and ready for people to come back so you know. Look we'll we'll be different forever. i think so. Look i think people who never tell it commuted. We'll we'll consider telecommuting once or twice a week. So i think the patterns will change in the city will change but generally i think i think that the the sort of panic about people not coming back to to the city is a bit overblown That's my john lewis. We should plan for differently. As transit modes are going to change. There are lots of different technologies not just the telecommunications that sarah mentioned but people are changing how how they how they move around. Well i i think technology is becoming. You know has made inroads in our work in import way. but i don't think it's exclusively the telecommuting aspect of working from home. We manage projects remotely all through all through the cova pandemic using go pro video technologies to inspect work to participate in factory acceptance testing for systems. Where our folks couldn't travel right. We developed apps for reporting on projects. Remotely a squeeze specially the safety compliance aspects of thing. And we did that very quickly. So we can incorporate incorporate technology in improving our work in our execution to get more work done to get done more efficiently and at a at a lower cost. So that's something that's changed from my construction standpoint. But i do think there are a couple of things that we have to folk we ought to focus on one is transit oriented development becomes more important if we're trying to manage You know how many different elements of the trip people need to take. It becomes more important to think about how to use how to have a transit. Friendly are climate more climate-friendly pattern of development throughout the region. You want to make sure that people don't have to resort to cars that they can use the mass transit system and take advantage and have stash travel. Because they're you know how we're housing placed on transit lines are in proximity transit lines so those those last with the last mile peace of a trip can be manageable in in in A space and You know one of those aspects as you know we went through this at the world. Trade centers is thinking about making sure that we we leverage our best mass transit facilities like the concentration of transit in lower manhattan and to concentration around penn station so secret that were were the. Espn is starting to think about how to have a transit oriented development plan around penn station. If we're going to invest in penn station and dealing with the reality of its continued growth and the region's continued growth Make sure you put the jobs right next to the best mass transit so i think and It's not all it's sarah said it's not all about assuming we're just having a telecommuting. Everybody's working from home in their pajamas. It's really about making sure that we can have fast. Climate-friendly mass transit travel to and from work as part of an development pattern. That supports that sir. Thank you very much. I'm hearing a lot of optimism and good lessons learned. That should help the future on. Let's turn to some questions. We have here As i said in this first question costs are not sustainable. When the federal money ends twenty four hour service with question mark which i assume means on. Can we really afford twenty four hour service. When we have structural deficit that right now is be masked by by the federal aid. Sir well look the. The reality is when we're not running twenty four hour service. We on the subway. We are running twenty four hour service elsewhere. So you know. The bus system continues to operate. We've got folks writing buses and those are not inexpensive and so if it's purely a are you saving so much on the subway side by being closed overnight. That's not wouldn't frame it that way but look as the city comes back. We've got to become a twenty four hour system again and i think that everyone believes that. That's that's the right thing to do. And that's the right answer for the city. And i think we're rapidly approaching a point where we'll be able to get there. Thank you geno. Could you comment as to the dollar. Amount of new capital plan is necessary to keep the system in the state of good report repair and mandatory compliance versus. Wish wishlist item. So how do you divide the capital. Then it's probably. I can't give you an exact reading on that but when we were looking at this era i think that we were we believe at the bottom. Bottom line was roughly half of or more of the capital probe program was devoting in transit lease was devoted to state of good repair. And i mean obviously there's some big projects like second avenue subway in the capital program but at least half of state of good repair which does not mean that in one capital program. You accomplish that you know that mythical goal of stated reaching state of good repair but at least half and probably more of it is state of good repair oriented work track signals other systems safety provisions maintaining the structure of the of the system. So we don't have ceiling caving wednesday to borough hall not too long ago. Those are roughly fifty percent. Or more. And i swear to the number. And that's a rough estimate. Thank you beg. we'll stay with you. For second jenner you mentioned the need for an economic model that can withstand shocks like the one we just went through. What does that model look like. I assume this refers back to fares being half verron tolls being half of the Of the revenues structure. What does it look like. I'm gonna resort a platform standard answer. Which is the. Mta is his indifferent to the sources in the exact form of support. It gets from our various governmental partners and so on my point andrew was merely that you know our financial structure which is dependent on ridership on the one hand and economic activity on the other hand placed us somewhat at risk for the type of crisis that we have experienced in the last year and maybe more than other systems which are have a structurally You know financial support coming from a different mix of Of programs sources so i am not recommending. Any particular approach Just that it you know. The last year has highlighted this particular issue in our financial strategy. Collect not i appreciate that. I think every Spent fifteen years in public health and healthcare and every crisis. We learn how to better prepare for the next crisis but we also learned that that. Maybe we didn't plan for the next one we learned at the blackout. That all the stuff we had electrically wasn't as useful as we thought. This is the challenge and we need to think about our rainy day. Funds and broader broader ways. Think about it differently. Sarah question came through about the workers who are cleaning the systems and there have been questions about those those contracts for the workers who who've been cleaning those since can speak to a little about that sure absolutely so the system in the end and our cars are cleaned. Two groups one. Mta employees longtime workforce cleaners who work for new york city transit. And then we've also gone to some contractors to assist with with cleaning over the last guy. I don't know call it ten months or so and you know every contractor every vendor that we're using obviously meets the rule of law in terms of being able to work with us. I've seen the same complaints that you're questioner has as well. We have folks who are constantly monitoring these contractors and these vendors to make sure that they're following all the rules and regulations that are in place not just for anyone working in the city or the state but working for a state agency like ours and in every case is every case we've seen we've found that they're complying with the law so look i think there is. I think it's absolutely fair for for workers to be saying that they would you know that they want changes in from their own from their own employer. And that's that's fair but as far as we can tell as we look at these vendors they've been in compliance and and and you know we'll continue to keep a close eye on it. Thanks thank you very much there. Let's say with your perspective. Is there a cost. Effective way to improve accessorized. You know there was you know. There's a pilot which was much more convenient call. Cost less on unit cost basis but the demand went through the roof reasonably so and so now it's kind of been extended on a limited basis cap is cost effective way to increase To improve accessorize. I think there is. I mean look. I think as we the reality is is the blue and whites. You know the the the blue and white vans that you see all over. The city are a really expensive way to provide service and sometimes they're the absolute necessary way and they're the right way because of the needs of of The person who's who is was taking the trip but sometimes the blue and white specifically or not needed and we also find that you know folks who are in this program. Don't necessarily want the blue in the whites they want. You know a cab or just a regular vehicle and so. I think that we can do a lot to improve. Cost effectiveness in a are we. Also look we're we're long overdue on some tech solutions there for years. We've been trying to build a tech solution of for a para transit department. That is is way too far behind this point. And i'm not sure actually the modern solution that we need so i think there's lots of changes we can make there and it's just You know it it it. We need We need to take a breath for a minute and decide what we want the system to look like and what we want this service to look like what we can afford and how we can get there in the most efficient way and then start. I'm not sure that para transit has gotten the attention that it needs over. The last couple of years does Idiot complying stations improve improve. That opportunity as you can get people to more stations around the system. I believe so. Yeah look i mean if we can get folks who are using Para transit take the vehicle to an accessible station and then go from there. That's great but look at the reality is is. We don't have enough stations at this point to To check that box and we have found that and by the way not everyone using the system not only everyone using the service. That's going to work for them necessarily but for those that it does work for absolutely think. That's something that we should be pushing. But we're not there yet and i wouldn't push it until we're at a point where i would feel comfortable with the number of accessible stations Certainly that's where you know. That's why it's so great to have both of you here. 'cause anybody who thinks that these are disconnected operations is is living under total allusion. They succeed in failed together. John we could turn to you for a second speaking of this. Why isn't fixing the signal system. The number one priority for apple products far more important than cosmetic or station projects. Well we have made it a top nowhere never before. In addition to the fact that we completed more stations last year than ever before in the mta in the mta's history. We have a seventy station goal for the current kept for the twenty twenty two twenty four capital program which is way way way beyond what the mta is ever attempted and a huge investment in the capital program. Five billion dollars to to accomplish it so and we are using new technology. We're introducing new construction approaches to try to manage the car so we can do even more stations in the future so it has been made a huge priority and it was one of the signature elements of the capital program. I think that the the the competition between there may be a fallacy. Built into the question would take issue with because we're not doing cosmetic improvements of stations as an alternative to ada. We've made a huge commitment to ada which is going to stretch the contracting community in the elevator manufacturing communities abilities. And you know we do some station. Modify what they call station renewals more. That's replacing existing escalators replacing existing stairways and maintaining the structure that station. So we're not prioritizing cosmetic improvements in any way to the contrary we're really prioritizing. Ada and the basic functionality of stations. Thank you. I think we have time for one last question when respectful special your time whenever it's time today and i'm not sure if this goes to maybe we'll have to be what is the mta's position on expanding bus service dedicated bus lanes and partnerships with private service providers to address transit deserts and transportation in the outer boroughs. I'm happy to take it. We said at the beginning of this pandemic that this was a good opportunity to expand bus lanes to put more miles of bus lanes in the city has has stepped up and certainly Gotten part of the way there but they haven't done as much as we'd like and look this is. This is a huge opportunity if we can get buses moving faster in the city. The whole the whole system works better right. Traffic will move faster. We cannot have buses stuck in congestion. We just cannot go back to the old pre pandemic of the bus. Just anyone on foot beating the bus by a mile and so if we can get the city to to be more aggressive on on installing bus lanes and if we ourselves can continue to be really aggressive on installing bustling cameras so that we are aggressively. No offence to those of you who who are getting these tickets but frankly you deserve them. If we can be more aggressive about making sure that we're ticketing. The folks were sitting in bus lanes and causing all of those on the bus to be late to where they're going. We'll find ourselves in a much better place in terms of keeping the city moving and keeping the folks depending on the bus getting where they're going the position on using private companies to provide some of that bus service. Not something that. I've been looking at now but certainly you know maybe a discussion but certainly not something. I'm looking at this moment. Well you know. I will send a list of questions keeps coming in. And that's because the issue so important and what you on both of you are doing. And what your colleagues who joined for new york city and the region on i shouldn't i should also say and thank you very much. Jennifer talking about trends that are into development which is not just about transient about housing. About affordability everything. So thank you both for what. You're doing for new york city for the region and i appreciate your time this morning to have any last comments to leave us with so we should be thinking with we welcome them and then we can send everyone on their way on geno any last thoughts. I just wanna say that that. I think we're all excited to have normal life return and we hope that the spirit of the everyone's enthusiasm about the performance of the mta and sarah's workforce and the railroad workforce's continues onto to the sense of purpose that we have to make sure. The transit system is super high functioning because it's essential to the region's business model into our economic revival and we need everybody especially like groups like yours to to help shoulder the burden to keep folks. Everybody focused on rebuilding this system so we can be there for our collective future. Yeah i would just say look. Many of you are employers yourselves as you come back as you bring your employers back. Please remind them that the system is here for is here for them. We've done great work over the last year and making sure that we're doing everything we can to be. Here is the city to be here to meet the city as it returns. And so as you return to. Your commute is your employees. Return to their commute. They're going to find a system that is safe and clean and sanitized and disinfected and fellow writers who were wearing masks and a presence of uniformed presence that ensures a bit more safety and we walk. We look forward to welcoming people back. Thank thank you very much for that. I think that's very important. We're all in the future together off and thank you for being good partners. Now listen you know we see. We know that the capital plan needs to be prioritizing. Cbc will continue to push on making sure. Those costs rs officials possible projects or prioritize. Of course um sarah on the operating side. We see those deficits in the future. And we're going to of course keep sharing ideas and pushing for efficiencies because we don't know how the future looks and although it's wonderful to hear your optimism. There's still a lot of hard work on the done. So thank you for being partners and listening to our thoughts and we'll keep them coming and we'll keep on sharing those with you and hopefully together improving the system for all of us. Thank you thank you all for being here today. Really appreciate your time and your supportive cbc care.

Mta geno cbc sarah Sarah new york sarah feinberg Jon lieber ben max Ben max andress ryan carol calorie Hero chuck schumer chuck schumer
Ep 191: Cawknation Brunch

Bodega Boys

2:19:36 hr | 1 year ago

Ep 191: Cawknation Brunch

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If you are a black woman please do not use it. I heard apparently is making air. Fallout and return it. To Sephora. Yes immediately just just don't we? Just bring it there and leave on the counter. His felicia offense even though it was implied. Yes how can we can make a knockoff? Nc Beauty ooh that's seems to be the Mo the move be popping and make like a lip kit embiid rich forever. Kit Kit indicate. What can we do like blunt like I smoked Purple Phillips Timberline yellow for checks with Jon Murphy. Shit Scrub Blue Blue Blue Teal. I would come out with bird. We come out with a special burberry one. So you can match blew at the wedding and the baby shower nice and dirty Air Force One. Yeah that's a good one. I don't feel black. Relieve your let me get a dopey black. You'll be black for my toes. My fingers let me get holy does not picking go. Go get the fish you know want you know. I'm GONNA treat myself. I'm going to get the white castle clamps drip all. Joe Look skiing show. We're GONNA do perfume line. Bronx sense you also like Coop City Ma. Us sexier five effort rains either doodles over Johnny. Candles Rondo willfully nine. Oh Wow the Lincoln hospital. A waiting room You know just like the McDonald's by Yankee fees well. This was like a freshly bleach train car. Wait till you make bookings Like under do fatty odor sandwiches kindergarten. You take all the pains and put them together and just do that. That's what I can't avoid the booking handle coming soon and we got to have one. I suppose Figures Fried Figures Yankee Candle. We all boom perfect synergy. Yankees Yankee candles getting you got a candle dern Titas Crotch fucking Jason John Be Stong who now lead to show you like mine was Amerian Aaron Garlic Nana's house. Sorry for you so we all Nana's did have sex with Jason Real. Sorry sorry you get hurt. Like Oh. She's so nice. See W. A. Yeah you're a real PAL hitter. Best First Baseman. But I'm definitely getting past I obsess. Everyone had pauses podcast. Like who the Fuck Jason? Gop because you remember. Our references are aging. Oh yeah but it's like. This are references. We make if he was who is adult. You'll know who you know. You don't know who jail readers and gre somewhere like Shawn Kemp. I'd look if you say let's go. Listen IT'S JUST CAFFEINE. An alternate universe. We ought to do this. Podcast coming with Jerry Curl you just do the wildlife coca just go. Y'All ready. We do like Miami Vice type theme love it but man work all right. Have we covered all the bases? We talked about You talk about the Yankees. Talking about porn. Extremely Nasty of exceedingly filthy law and Order Joke Bong hit that pedophile joke Bon Bite it by what else Any new musical releases that we should like fucking scorched earth. Can't think any of the We're moment where like we all sincere and talk about like real shit on podcasts. Or just keep shit. Oh Suzhou Baja taught. What can we even be sincere about? Listen we have tried to bury tickets. Call me. They saw that picture of us who House. They want moonlight to go. I think if you jerky off at a WAFFLE HOUSE TO CHECK CLEARS GATORS. I check Check eggs you'll take your fucking Eggo. Sorry sorry I mean it was a little promising. We haven't a homosexual goes lease. He's just down. The Barbara Nichols Gay. Move to more moonlight. Hey Look at look at us was top stock. Movie Guy Really likes own. Backstory is we have just like port orchard. Naked Jeremy Off Spaghetti. Suppose I why do we GONNA win? Matt Awards Facts Bug I did. I say no. You gotTa Moonlight Jokes. We have to again of references. We have to you have to watch so we can mock power. Say Somebody who famously Paris today and probably not seen it was fucking. What trump dollars Nazi Holdings's subtitle? He's not reading shit like y'all now realizing that all his rallying searches ninety minutes standups instead the special can ask the difference between him and Bloomberg. Funny funny where he he's like he's like. Wow Yeah he's Jeff foxworthy. You might be a Redneck. You gotTA team another. Tv Hate America if you're a Muslim all right. That wasn't the best job. Black people have jobs shadow. Now what the fuck what it was I come knowing found out who the FUCK DIAMONDS SOCAR still. They got to have a new nephew to this day. We have no idea who they are. Take the little blacker that made the renegade dance. Oh sure all should. That can't prove it. I've got to prove it and that. She felt so much guilt for her. Our did to the black race that she had to create a dance. Tell us also the renegade dance is too much. It's too many will. Also it doesn't help people like me. Because I'm washed and he removes Max like war told me a role in the song over the move right there. I WanNa know this rewind. It goes like this over here was this is like one of my little sister was one stupid. Get the chance. Wait go do I go through one or two or to your recovery. Read your say your say your one two three. I'm one NIGGA fuck. I wish I had another system. What EVERY TIME? I wish I had a brother hang as basketball booze. GonNa to say when he sees this little play basketball football man company kids looking about father like a week as nuts. Kimmy nor the boy's girl a I don't know I'll be probably youtube comments. Yeah Right Yeah Yeah Don wake up is heavy on my heart. The fact that we are the new Frederick Douglass and while we're leading the people to the freedom as well as well as a heavy burdens. Apparently you know what we do with aplomb saying I would say with a an uncanny ability to do things every both the way the world unusual. Harriet Tubman had a podcast. Hell you would have been fired to. Where would you recorded at though? She probably like lip service. Usually try to talk about Real Shit. Dig All this crazy shit like she. She was talking about like oh liberation. Though can we get to the fact that we get an issues? I hate when they can just push it all my bad again with dog Steph Joe because we were eaters. Oh my gosh. Can we talked about Pitas. The last you ever even heard y'all my girl. Oh she went on a boat and a doctor and then I read something about something called docking. And that's not even the same thing but it's Kinda the same thing isn't that wild. Yeah well you know what? Yeah slavery stupid boats. Boats slaves came. Slaves would the boats. And I've been around where we are doing. A Harry Tovia on the service. I'M GONNA stop right here. We have one tank Jerry. Doing Co. how we don't do well was that that was Suzanne Zoo. Harry's talking about slavery while Angela you was talking about docking I also. There's no breakfast so they just want us to have breakfast breakfast breakfast. Not New rock nation Brunch. No Riano bias. Breakfast show. Breakfast is the most than a day they're trying to. That's what is is is inside plot to do away with us because breakfast is the most important page predrag jobs. Up Throughout the day to the best you could be and then taking that away from us and Have the Raglan should brunch breakfast breakfast. Is it you know what I'm saying. These little niggers don't eat breakfast. They start wearing dresses. You know what I'm saying is true right man out thank you. Surgeon Surgeon General Boozy. Listen this is anything you can wake up tomorrow. A Chris. Rock is not Chris. Rock Kid rock is charged to the economy is now called BONK's bound to get bigger. Bitcoin GETS HIS GIG given. What did you say kid rock? Hit Rock this. There's got to be people who are kid rock fans who are embarrassed to expose yourself have you if you got a Kid Rock. Tattoo Hala and you're like our you covered it. Yeah we had it but you got it. Though you committed you went into the parley. Y'All WanNa kid rock focused on to have you almost. Have you ever considered getting a Tattoo for musicians? Almost broke with musician. Almost it was the mob. Deep cover of the infamous mob only have the interlock your hands and they got like the dragon dragging I do that and then it was like too much I was like. Oh I'm just didn't get that because every now and then I see so with it and I'm just like your Chad yet. Wow you're bro Bro. Zeus we call them urban routine. Exactly right all right. Becky moved to New York and 2017. Calm down and trying to eat my fucking pancakes we have brought to your over the raw materials so you know me. I love this stuff. I love it. Listen I read. I read this on genius. His hip hop will rockets shocked. The Nation. Like the occasion proclamation. I actually wrote my master's thesis on this. Yeah I use the Iron Mike. Says he's my kindergartners. Abc's along with you get your charter school. Teaching Tenet brunch fire. She's like Oh. I'm sorry I'm GonNa go play Rowdy. Rich on Yuki Lili else to forgive the box. That's though more girl I'm so quirky. Look at all my idiosyncrasies then rents go up crazy easy I have lived in the man. That's how you know if you're in a fire. Brush Mahto the more disrespectful. They OUGHTA HIP hop. Like if you go to a place. And they're playing big. That's wanting to place in their playing like other people playing but you gotta half. I was at a Brunch in. La and there was. This white check was singing. A tribe called quest. She was doing Boston over style. Oh No oh no. Ain't the HIP hoppers. Maybe was livid but the seller emmy was like. This is nice. I can do this show. I could do this license. This is good. I I can do this every Sunday. Before the Hill Song we want my Supreme Hoodie and pray. Because you remember when Jesus was like come all ye couple you. Drift people. Forget in the Bible indeed Jesus was so upset and he destroyed flight club and he was like thou shells spivey. For God's a little Brown people forget that's why Judas hated Jesus because he freaked it on him at the Last Supper incapable no off. Wei Jordan one tax on up through the regular came with Regula General Release One. Who Peter. Ups Look at Brocchi? Those while they bring out does that goes on. I live this. You're GonNa do do you suffer. Silence Burn Push. Don't ask don't Cook of Jesus. All right he's going to share stitch on UNIX. Like to finance also. I would like to see a movie of it but do a Narcos of that Judas Manga lescoe Jesus Joe was dollars to kill you. I'm getting thirty coins coins here. What metal piece over all self say Bronco? I'll stick up mount up. I got the document back school. Let's go I am. The you got drako. Made a stroll Talal years go vote. You know. I'm ready I got mad. Frankencense say they was always talk about religion or your podcast. You have no idea what I like. My grandma listen. This is for all you guys have student. Loan debt from your Undergrad degrees. Have nothing to do what you do. Currently so if you're a theology major we completely butchers Like religious shit. Now's the time to shine. You know what I'm saying. Use that knowledge. Listen as a former religion major. This was stress. It was like job with this desktop publishing shit. I t the shroud of Turin. Go One of job interview so you went to school for religion. Yeah I'm dead ASS. Yo bless you. Y- you know father son Holy Bubba youngest Hollywood slash. I'M GONNA say one is on an so Spanish by now. You can't do nothing with religious prese you know you got to hit the seminary and shit stop having sex. Put you in the box. Put you in a Varner. Imagine not having sex magic pres. Jesus I'm not having sex walking around collar but then I say the confession ahead Nick. It'd be wild nasty with IBM. Yo Yo Yo. Hey Hello was last time. Confess six months ago. What are you confessing today? The drinking I have several officials to make Should I start with the NASTIEST NASTIEST and don't be afraid to use details So the other day I I went to Hotel Okay and I invited to women are over or a friend of mine was Sumner how women there were there. Were Times like how it tastes like Bro Front page yeah. Front-page sank thank Jesus like trending one hundred for the whole month. Jesus Christ Jesus our Savior so so then Yeah you know like I'm so then so you know the the Lord says blessed be the Just WanNa know incredible edible. Yeah like you know when they get the patrons for instead of the instead of implant wow and it just looks. Massol financials yeah. You're the battles crazy wild but So yes So like so smash right and I'll go. Oh yeah smashing deal. I do like Doggie. No saying first of all we got top. I okay top I however was oh. The best sloppy ship was she gagging How durfee Red Little Tear? Wow Yes tell her to call you daddy you know what? Pretty SOON VIACOM CVS STREAMING. You can enjoy it a also viacom. Cbs is a terrible name. They're gonNA come up with a better name for 'cause is Viacom and CBS like Viacom deals focus drove past the Bill De Beers C. bills it looks. Weird or vary comma via COM CA. Comedy Kuka me Soon see vehicles vagus vehicle but psychopaths like above US. Fastener of a sounds like actual thing. Go God do Yo. How can I watch Jesus Merrill the vitamins plus you gotta values are you over to the CVS? Cbs and input the V. For via Combo Bond. Bull boom no problem. They're done and easy. Easy key one eye open like. Cvs that's how he says you don't matter if you search for the people think Jay z. Says ocoee when I open like. Cvs that's not what is the CBS logo is an I. It's and I and it's open and everyone everyone has younger than you right. How's it look at this old man ranting about network logo? We'll get Morley safer over here. We should do version of the fucking shit like the. Oh hello show. But lately hip hop wash F- y'all don't know shit about hip hop man. Well is young Loesch. It took about a young boy young boy EMBIID NBA two NBA basketball. Come home now you name. It didn't know hip-hop has hip hop hip Hop Music Macomb Rimma Sadat X. Who's right out on cowboys while Cao Cao one time nineties? No-one no-one horses you saw with the video was to salute. Yeah I still got the vital four vinyl was like a wanted poster while I was there probably back in the nineties back. Golden Age hip hop. They didn't they were not that Experimental with titles like if the if the hook for an extra dreams are made of these. You just going to be like Fine Street Dreams. Adler the name of it. By the DASA's the song is like that's what it's like when I'm in the New York state of mind and New York state among time. What's the name of that Song Halftime Bathroom? Thank you thank you. Oh we need to go back to the time when people didn't have titles or songs and no one may music. Y'All be the first music. How much bud you get hit like Volcker like ou? Would you get burned to? Oh yeah yeah because think about. Here's the thing is I heard it before. Yeah it's shot. You're thinking like if you did the vocal now. Imagine being you're just here and like some naked come into new. Never before and they just vocal video mammalian good. Yo what the fuck. Y'All what the fuck was at my guy. Yeah Oh good. You're listening. Oh also back. In the days it was easier to convince other people to burn people. Look like I'm not talking about like the Lynch and dates back when trials. Yeah if you hold. How scared of because they heard his dragging you burning eggers. Elza trees you how to mural turn into a chain. He's he's warlock warlock. You'll love Justin. So Assad we gotta keep it on a low. He's a witch because we believe you're a witch because we believe you will which everything you do which like like you just do little shit. He drinks his water. A witch. This which ask which asks get to ask me got real hip hop in Salem Massachusetts Chess. Yeah Yo Yo Purnima Burner shot to shot which is ready for a war. Say Lousy Eh Sign Gaffar Fath- livestock afire myself. My wow housing. Ninety eight artists at the Salem sholom let me ask because baron out where that came on the day and also down aggressive lyrics seeing like when you hear honest you like your New York and I played that for like a your kid uses old get the CBS Radio. Off HERE. This shit slanted. That was like Frankie Valli and when she blow town girl they're not trying to hear that Shit Drako hit this patriot a drink. Yeah we'll talk. Hey you guys want to here hip hop all right you guys got your little. You guys got little little songs. Shit dumpsters popping. You hear some. Shit that had the club rocket got some shifts. She put put them all no. I'm a I'm a zone because they don't know what he's talking about over now. No nothing this year right here. They should remember this. I remember this came out. Oh Yeah Dobro. All about the Benjamins. Okay Oh this much. Better Roddy rich come off the bat. Plenty who put that area grenade singing like this hip hop right here on the boom but would there be over go home family and the whole Family Oakland. I'll tell you that we'll see how we have. He was owed to beat up. At the end for babies. You see that you see you see transition spinal cord hip hop up. No what I'm saying wouldn't fake about shit this other shit. Why it'd be turned out you said put open. You know what I'm saying. A clear is in. We gotta make. Oh why are we gonNA make vising third hour you know what I mean planned killing it with the merge gay? Oh they're not ready. I'm not ready for that. Oh my God wait. Grimes died or she she died. That's trying to help them. Says Racist dropped out? That's only one day. I'm a log on it'd be like Kimera re Muros tweets. There's like four and I'm like oh he's just a fucking bullshit duck sauce. We'RE NOT GONNA PAN EXPRESSIVE. And that's why. Y'All got a narrow Wallah bureau so high care. He's I've read in the Texas. He's still treated as this text. Text text if I have a late night show. I should be allowed to take as many samples in the food court as I'm allowed. I'm like what the talking about. He's like Oh when I go to best buy if I turn the TV channel do not come and change the channel. Which had this is highly specific to also giants. You know if you WANNA cover this. That'd be nice. To these are all real mural tweets. Facts was so furious there. We have a mirror. We have a beef with people whereas before people were not if people you know what easy past how dare you not read my bumper? Could pass on the first try. I had the backup. Fuck Dick all the way back. Easy passing like you look at the video. Mural came away too fast. Hey sorry hey the Sally here. Ez Pass on. Divas for details yeah. Dm You suck my Dick Daddy stupid bitch okay. The next two years I speak shot of like some Spanish rose. I can't okay. This should not. So wow what's going on over there you okay. If this medicine directly after Agra tweeted you know what I'm saying is that the barrage continues because that's what happened. What you an Amusement Park Waterpark? Oh my God and I was like wow he was walking around with my fuck is like a fucking. Dick me while I was like. Oh there was an amusement park. We L. fucking always tagged follow. I see the tune in Iraq. Also treat in your no difference. The Kospi six nine are no different than ranching. You're saying ditching let you because you gotta let expose they self see next Diego. Say People Are Hollywood star. So name is crazy. People sort on them. I've I'VE SAT. Favorite people watched absurd shown. Wow I listen. I just barely mentioned. Also everyone knows if he will really sander you. They're not gonNA type your name the right way they're gonNA type nieces dice Yeah D- asterisk as you as ad Astra stick is that's amateur shit like people will do nieces dice. I like the people they like stalking. You know they hate is beyond the page while you're alive though. Why right right I stupid talk about open at Third I. It's true. I was so this house the other day and I could not figure it out. I was so smack Cossack. Were you housewife so smack? How are you I was a fucking? I'm on twitch right whatever And I'm a an people I'm looking into China and I'm talking so mike the phone here and I play whatever and it's the call duty remastered gear get in Alabama von. Joe You go you. I'm Joe I'm reading the CHAIWAT BLANK FE. Do you turn around. It's like they're so they're just as Jesus and POPs up when I was just like. Oh Shit and I'm just like y'all shit like invite join game join Party or game or game. He didn't even know what I'll do. It has met people that shallow. Yo you gotta go. This is our who here. I was paying all als- I put this out for the best because I was so high though the night playing call of duty and the board was the one is the Christmas board. Oh this is fucked up like Iron American and I'm fucking this Christmas. I was even shooting. This is a court of Color rocket. Burris LAWSUIT IS. I was like Nah. Oh let's be pacifists to put the guns down because shooting at the hand has that last. Kill that's weird because when you call in the fighter jets they come into San slee armies phone call of duty is is satory for the war. Oh Yeah. Sm In real war. You can't go behind a rock every charge you to go back to four fifty cal but I'm good position for two seconds. I'm struggling so remastered the other realo Thomas Matt Slow. It's annoying. Have you using like the semi automatic which you know I I can I ask you what the Desert Bitch I remember. I was one of the white cousin in England ru talking about guns. He was talking to a gun. Some do you know about guns? He was like call of duty as I fired. Because tell me shit go play rocket. Lino shoot so brother. I actually haven't back and play with the appreciate the Deji let you play with them or did he allow you to arm yourself and defend yourself. Think about it. You got four kids if you wanted to start. Dominican militia Dominican jewelry. I think we're enough with the. Oh do you want me to your wife and your kids we can take over fair lawn wiping do militias and walking around like there was walking around with fifteen local rally. I want you to buy. Ar Fifteen edges where it to the Mall Fuck Fuck Gucci Shit. That's the Flex Gucci Strap. We'll get the gold play this shit. Escobar narcos Gun's barrel is different than only the bobby. Oh Shit going handle. Yeah we're doing limited marrow guns showtime on that the sounds of Mexico on handles the sixty. How how all? Yeah I'll a little cabin with cameos right now. Probably doing a cameo view. No one of them died and the guy with the main guy. I saw a video of Jada damage performing to a full crowd out the Bruins Uncle Out Y'all grabbed me day. We love you. I was like. Oh Wow Jay Bruce here heartache. James Comey is white. People whose J. Electron Echo. Yeah uh-huh flag. Also third bat blink. Open Society is Oh get cataracts third. Is We do movie about Helen. Keller but 'cause he'd blind her third. I third shift. She's those Marissa Shit we correct like Yo she's like. Oh there's a neutral my class. She's a lovely Orient Mu Helen. Helen sorry here's a wild heart. She he's finding because she really like a transfer student to New York and she's doing a lot of times square park as she finally string the difficulty strings. And it's like we don't pick up on. It just keeps on difficult during and when she finally learns her lessons she used to make a hotel hat. I started blowing. Yeah so Tyler. Perry where you were babies. An how'd you boys say y'all putting is Catherine do finally see the world in five or folly accepted your anti-black things have are finally able to be allies. Just do you understand. What black faces band? I'm so ready to do you understand. Why should we cake? I mean it was awful. I'm so sorry. I saw the buzzfeed recipes. Are you finally woke? I'm so woke sobbing right now saying why. Four generations yes letroy forever. Do you understand why Lori hose album was exemplary? However very judgmental such was I enjoyed it. I release Bob Richards. Thanks it was very and you know his hip hop world. Right now. Judy Xabi Wow. That's too that gets you hip hop NARCAN. Y- chipset power balls. How Sega Joe I was. I started looking for the schools that I was also though because at that time to say genesis was banned from North Korea. Because if you put a bunch of sacred genesis together it was the same as having a supercomputer having a crate commoners. Who LIKE OKAY computer? Also that's on by Chubb Rock Brooklyn Dodgers. He do the wild shot at Barbara Walters. That Brits Barbara Walters like super does she. Do you see any but she did something reset time but that was back in time with everything why people do. It was racist. They wake up and be racist writing Like while we were even in the La riots when they pulled out white truckdriver Audi Denny and they beat him with the break. Even as a kid I was I was to get. What was he driving through? There was Reginald Dennie secure right now. 'cause I if he was I I kind of mistake. That's one person. If he posted some Nazi should be like. Oh my God I mean this judging punishment you just live your life. Hey Baby Bash artery yesterday g thirty two releases in. I'll know drink her text messages. Oh my God because I say Bro Skin Nichols love coming back. After you break up there is really has a least nineteen blue bubbles in attacks at least ninety eight and they're all rectangular like long right tangled swamp for Mareo just as a reference right. Do Hopefully Drake making all these beats about. The song's about I'm rich. I'll do this on. His new shooter was Montague on Degrassi. Relax but He needs to go back to the just making like those real like sympathetic. Like Yo Vegas you know I was into Polian. I got the X. Two guacamole we think about you. I love that member. We support Mercer. Had Dogs Mustard. While you must've hotdogs can't cut the mustard without you spicy spicy. Tr GOES DEAN WRONG. Use must by Seabrook. Uh Gone Ahead. You Moist like potato. I'm like is this like a describing hotdogs. Lasalle crowed bar. You're my Nathan's I went to coney island with these bar. Suck owe us a foot long. Use My Weiner when we were in Papayas. We got the recession special. I was like wait a minute. Just their second menu. Go get the blueberry with me Rudy to refresh like tropical rhythms food banks. Our we forgot the lyrics to choose to. It's like you. You already drugs another one because remember the first time you heard of music hours running into this with dazzling early. The stupidest lyric I've ever heard anyone ever seen club. Your fucking asshole. They use your club House Money. How you know. How could you not? No I like this biggest Smith. I was very oh So we'll just trying to assassinate. Wow Complex I think it might be for the best. Never made it Alaba. Rita de- definitely will the water. The water of freshwater watts at fuck dude narrows definitely a big take shirt off the water energy flow. You'll be somebody's always like that where you're going. I Love Rita Smoking Hookah. I doubt girl narrow young. Vince is also one of my favorite elaboree memories about La Burrito was shorty as she turns bad drug and she goes. And it's like a Nigga out of Jesse was as big as Dominican flag. Had the way for him to get close to make sure I was a you because I was like yeah. That's mural behavior. I felt like Judge Moore obey a. Will you eat Fried Fried picky is? That's absolutely just go right across. Is this your murrow over? Five footage. Jetskis those kids math. He's GonNa WanNa shoe that's house. Narrow unadjusted Saatchi Robe. Cloudy yes. He hasn't fixing media realize is right. There Jetski legally take out? You guys got reopened Marino. I was thinking opening robbery because rally will allow marina is in Washington Heights. Only Dominica's the blacks care about ship. So we have to find a way to bring La Marina Bushwick so white people get involved in it so how come up with about La. Marina was sand on a beach. We're GONNA get a factory and we're GONNA fill the factory with peanut shells. 'cause I kinda feels like San Wife. You can walk barefoot. Oh is called La la La Nina La Panini lap anaemia Lebane- Neapolis media. And I'll just like Kofi co-sign a billionaire. That'd be because if you have peanut allergies and they probably simply self factor. She'll be happy living white people. We do a live show. We look at this. Get Lot of doubts as a do y'all but they just don't have medicine flavors fags. That'd be like when you get right. Yo Shit Shit. Oh job interview like fuck it. Fucking little profile. I mean Gee Cory Co reservation. Jesus vice that's you gotta have like that like what you gotta you gotTa. You can't humble for a job interview coming on some stones. He also said a slam. Your resume done clock. You all the points after the richest because you can go here this status you gotta like gotTa tongue kissed. The reception self-employed. I'm here for my interview. Hello I'm here for interviews with the my Chemical Romance Mad forcier. Why do you want to work here? I was I wanted my fog. Why I'm here Purple Bank proficient in Microsoft. Word like I'm also. I'm also prefers Tumbler to live journal to my fucking have my feelings crushed by society. Fucking sorry I have to put my safety pinned back in my bottom lip. Saw Life is so hard miracle movie was going to ask replace attorney Cube wait. Let's matching floor. 'cause y'all fuck that let's just go to the Bar Nobles and Union Square and we'll sit on the floor read book. Yell tweet all the magnitude the crystal take into the bathroom that's awesome. Let's get bored with you I. It's Nice I don't know if that's what happens with Ruby. Yeah Yeah we get the wall several dishes. Even he'd be listening to sort podcast you. There's no leap. There's a show which I saw the plane. Once scissor show was late sword callback. Were they make sorts? Have you seen that show real real voters? I watched it for five minutes. I was fucking my doors the competition. I'm like what is this shit about. First of all you know you watch a show in every you get into like when you watch shop. I want this person away cutting own Dick's off. I want you to swords Jones. Yeah Life Criss Angel or some shit first of all big show. Strictly about swords is like risky enough. That you're GONNA competition show like. Yeah you gotTa make a sword use the toothpicks band. Aids and safety pins what that oath who makes words? What was the last time? A sword won a war. You don't get shot like renaissance gotTa hear should've ricochet rains glass. Timisoara was offensive. Can last time a Ford was a sword was a good offensive. Weapon wasn't like kingdom hearts. Mickey Mouse had eighty. He longs who also not a regular. Douglas we'd be talking about that. We don't always talking about off of muscle but you'll be sword. That's the version of bronchitis is considered a box cutter. Good Pal oh you did. Oh then also box cutters shot the box holding down a high school official weapon of New York City. High School's gotTa love. That was always a good feeling. Though where you had in your pocket which jumped off. You always knew he was. I go oh I got a plan B. I don't know there's a lot of violence question. Yes I know. There's a lot of boxes and let's just for the sake of lego box. Sushil boys grow tomato sample size swollen. Let's say just the Bronx Right. How many box cutters were used for violence versus their actual purpose? Actually cut in boxes. Yeah that's a good question because what Bronx. Every time. I need to open a box in my life. I've never had I've never opened the bugs bugs ties. Diggers it's like. Oh you gotta jump out of the way to the bus at like dawn. You look like a box. That's already rich. I was like Nick Box. There was like back in the day. Put out boxer was like pulling out a gun like the whole everyone. I'm Joe World. Everyone on the bus backed up. I'll call you out. I'll box cut everybody. Oh who wants a thin razor cut right now? Yeah and his rusty. Yeah also Babacar yet. If you don't wait now after this day in Washington wants to die from tetanus how you guys have reached that class. It was the most certificate cookie once. You're a pro. Oh Shit Oh shit. Oh he locked it. Oh no this is going in. That's CRA- used to be our biggest fear at school now. They're like they're looking at us. Like yeah you get a box set is like we have mass shooting drills like two different shows. Today's box everyone is talking about for the whole day. I guess a mass shooting Joe is a little more attention and also the threat of a mass shooting because the news. Never you never like someone come to school and everybody was going to school. They were coming to shoot one nigger. I am coming to shoot. Mero facts and it was while because I'm Clinton didn't even have metal detectors. Yeah and I knew for a fact that was the school of multiple. Yeah it was just like Yo there was never any unstable Nigga guns in new day even on stable. They're gone crazy but I'm not like shoot shoo. Who but the difference is love of trying to go behind them shoes right? There was one kid in Coop City of Houston for fun. Used to fire his gun out his window and section to who he never was like. I'm GonNa Come Matt also back in the day the fuck. Oh what is that like back there? You go shopping. Took leave a high school who he called me for class. Punch me and I'm like what the Damaris wasn't this. Shot the Vegas Catcher. Be Catching tag in the stairs. Throw me Oh me and it was totally like dance are off. You would just like get down. Get down by shit catch. I'll say tomorrow checked it in the morning. Just like both y'all morning officer. Plus you ask for theory taught out to area you tie that. Guy Chucky news the Indian guy but he had a bad knee so the thing is when you run right at him and took his knee would pop out of place are sick like Dick. I'm not going to language. Arts was legal was the chases all the guy with the nigger Vega man. I don't even remember the Nickelsville that he was a deed we used to call because he lives in Zagla six. Yeah and that Nigga will chase you daughter Marie on this end and this other going down the phone floor laying flat like Boise hit. Get fucking Dick. You go to go to four. They challenge you come down and you hop over and you're like wow all this effort should have probably just went to class where he works trying to get the classes. Teach like no yeah generally pass. You know what I'm going to talk to you. You have potential squandering narrow squandering. Yoga's vaguely y'all know it's you. Don't you want to listen? You ran away. It'll be somebody wanted to Klasnic or made me run all the way I read all your essays and there's something there I want to nurture that but I want you to nurture that to your customer no you cannot smash tough asking me okay. Even though you're Dominican and probably have a wild big Pino I mean if you WanNa find my Honda after people like that's problematic. I know people that that happened to. Those are very Florida who definitely smashed and one of my teachers and she was just like soul where she was. I what fuck of Ers do. We also get good grades. We hang him. Can we get residuals like a young like like you know what what what's it like? What was go she like? He's a like talk. Talk tell tells her eight days. Their ceiling were yogurt. Does she wear panties? You put it in all three holes. Oh my God. I saw that I saw that on a I saw. Oh download the API file twenty-second. Who took six hours a download? Get A CASSOCK ALWAY. You shut the fuck it vocals. I used to walk computer nerd I used to you know. I'm always on dial up and I was like family. I need to download these files from doing like MP3 shit whatever. Whatever I didn't realize my father was a landlord. Catholic call waiting and like tennis or calling. Emergencies are shit. We're getting a busy signal like you're lying. We have call waiting obviously like Yo Joe ever was Hobson. I'm like oh I forgot. It was like a new album came out. And I'm downloading. It takes all night to download the shit so a Dallas. I started downloading like nine pm. So I know it's going to finish in the morning like school. Eighty Bertil Kipahulu get the final foul and logoff at a phone just rings off the hook and I'm like what are you. Are you building? Fire the fire. Apparently the fire your family for log and I was like wow. I get the shit beat out of school dress like the teacher saga. I'll just hit the Charlie Brown voice. Beat ME TO DEATH. Little Montage Bell as as much was it. Looks like wow? This is my last one her. Why row wow you guys? WanNa play suicides. Because this but my parents didn't put together and they do they call in phone companies like the call waiting again from either. Yeah Yeah Ios Wild House. My friend said that they will call getting burned down so wife. Oc with a cigarette in their mattress on fire. That's all you. I was very. Why calling US sounds very of the Times you know what I mean that. I was in a mattress with a cigarette. That's savage. That's one thousand nine hundred five. Shit Bro what I was. GonNa say you still town rockers? Come on that did not happen at the bench falsely. Like if you went like say your housekeeper. Fo- sleep smoking a Newport and your liberal and it caught the couch on fire and Burns your house out. How WOULD YOU BE. You'd have to jump her. I'm sorry that Yo- you Yo Cheryl come outside your we got we got we have. I saw the first show man. You Look I'll do. I'll start kneeling down by his. You get the I if you knock me out. You went well for me. Heat Island. What's all I wish I love? Shit Fuck Scuds the whole right leg. That's a good one guy. Classic Johnson. My Ex Guy Highschool Marcio voice. In my time I would have recorded once I want all we want to reclaim your shelter short because this is what she did for three years for three years. Have you to zone and I was like. Oh what are we doing what we do? We should go together. We look to save like we talk on the phone and she didn't want it and then in senior year I met this other wildbad at her short you at threaten other check on him all fuck up you never talk to be. Does she throw it? Every girl at school was like do not ask him for Prom. 'cause the problem with him and she went and had like four kids by some dusty on facebook. I am own issues. Whatever I enjoyed talking to you and also her brother was like he was all he'd be running around with guns AC- he's mad cool when I was like. Yeah yeah assigned. Actually you know the vibes all about your mahood negative. I'll be in new era hats. A shuttle is saying. Is it a waste of time though or is it you experienced like this? It's like if life is a menu or your ex's are just appetite and you just didn't like saying they're all shinto pepper's sheltered shoshee to- Pepper. They used to drive me to work after smashed at ten. Am after mausolea appreciate you say ever hit you see you. I'm yeah I wish I could say the same. I have one of my ex. It wasn't like I'm proud of you. She was just like I knew it was like one. Most people would stop. You just kept going and I was like Becca right now. She was like she was like what you do on TV which used to do a house parties. But you aren't getting paid for it and it was very annoying and I was like I was like well use use use. Leave your hair in the shower drain and that was very annoying. So this thing other beefs. Okay you lost. You know what I'm saying like I would put foyer over the ham and you wouldn't and the hand will dry out so we'd have to buy new ham ham expensive him as dry knowing. Hey listen I believe. That's the Bob Marley Song. No woman no ham new woman. I remember call. I would buy in a government yard entrenched who buying cheeses leaner brand line. Would I and I we stood and I say Boar's head GonNA be or bore has gone up right now boy. Oh boy said the right. Hey here's the one who speaks with Corbu Bronxville Kogas cigarettes gives you fool. Fool pig actual boy's head like what's to do abortions. They advertise and they're like board had effort by name. What else would you ask for data? There's no you don't know of any other Meat Company. I'm Never GonNa let me get the holly sausage. No it's just bore. Has the only people to advertise monopoly. Commercials they show very succulent meat and that's being used sandwiches at all because they gotta put man extra little squirt the data and a guy like when you start ordering say which they give you options you like nothing worse when you go you'll give you let me get a cheese guys like okay. Oh whoa asked me the bread. The bread toasted butter cheese. You're getting trash with atop the Burger as America has got to be dry and burned. Doug Lissette is the heartache. But you hit a bad chop cheeses worse than losing a child man. You gotTa have a bad job cheese and come to a conclusion burke when your kids kids facing cheese which is only two hours the process. He's like damn this talk cheeses bad. Try the Sandwich Zobel try. They must this on growth. This is terrible. Didn't put a seasoned crunchy. God let's suppose to crunch lightly. Toast that we gotta do this before marriage. General treated that once I was like so one. Step a fresh period. Tim's is worse than losing a family member as twitter lost. Shit and she was like you have never lost a family member. Let me tell you about sleepless nights and those first of all your way listening to it was a tweet is back when I had like. I want to say maybe hundred followers I was like. How'd you find me ladies under five hundred dollars you can? While the fuck hours you could take three wherever you go whatever you want to trade you pee on the time line tweet out a CD pick shit. Oh just tweeted my day zero for five hours. Nobody saw you wash it like no one's don't fight it but then that's the problem about having a big account now because you want to be like the bully and like amplify someone who only has like a small followers because that's some bullshit. What has seventeen following crush? You got like four point one million maybe area. Grandi sucks retreats fucked up your Ip address. Don't you ever talk about area? Theresa massive. Exactly I'll tell you about a few of my favorite things ever on so yeah come on the show. You Know I. I've found is a lot of people. Obviously don't have time to watch our show. Their schedules of that busy like Elizabeth told me her schedule. When those Damn Nick you give me working for him they go they go to like plane planes studio Dinner Show sleep and then another thing is like I'm learning. Now they just can't be having casual conversations like that 'cause they have to save their voice for the show so people come up and want to talk and they're like the handle is like no they can't talk talk and then your tech. We should start doing that. Yeah I walk around with the facial mass. Oh sorry. My Voice Feroza were geniuses. We can't we had talked to. You is our pockets of world's will do audio books with the next. What was it in the Wilbur Theatre in Boston and they had throat savers in a back. Laugher coach at Rotea. Because we're immature coaches who every show right. Every Bodega Boys Live. Show literally some weight. We're like what can we smoke weed at? Salida every venues like you can't like that was the question no no. It was basically said negative. Smoking wheat regions. Where you want us. What we'd at. Where do you want us to go? This is the question and I love when people come into the green room into like. Hey Hey guys. Hey Sprinklers in here. So it's gotTa be careful you're gonNA like set off the fire Nigga. We laugh pilot. It's not a bonfire and I'm sorry if you know smoking. Allow the Paki our boys Barium. Sorry FOR CECIL OFF. Bro was in Atlanta. We did have any rap so we had to smoke out of a NAPKIN. Oh my God I was in Atlanta. That's jail but it was good. It was deeded. Does we read. We know better now and if nobody knows as you know sometimes I know better and I still do do. Yeah that's that's that's one of those cliches doesn't fit all so as you know. Better do better because doing a bad as good yeah. It's fun to do bad things scumbag Milton but you know. Sometimes you look in a mirror that fuck ethics the one I do it. I want you know wallet if you do something bad and you sing that song. It's harder than I do. I want a pair but I'm like I like my kids. Got His stories. Were Shit I'm doing okay. Do it like fuck target literally got loss prevention. You're insured you're not going to miss this little blush baby hulk kid and they're gonNA force your kid to be a manager of target Forty that's the new target jail. Oh my God I'm going to read Shirley. Thanks Dad see my Khakis ably will listen. It could either be this or you could be signed rapper. So you welcome soundcloud. Say What is soundcloud was that what was that. What did I mean before that was? Yeah a cloudy Sounes cloud of sound. It was definitely alternative rock band album. We're going to start a soundcloud record clown clown cloud cloud. Yeah featuring original recordings from Mr Fun Fun and who this dare to our Apollo show on a little black heads chocolates tall agents say I mean I believe that they're fifteen go under but hold on. Let me rub the stomp all right. Let me rub that tree shape. I believe the children are the future future. I mean like what he said. A real sisters is out of everything. Podcast BENZOATE MR. Funk would easily get a show while problematic animated show. Let's have been great mystified. I two five. She picked up immediately. High here. Perform to your kids but legally after tell you that you know some states say that I and I just pleaded out I needed how to bake directly because I did not want to go through a protracted litigation also very costly to meet and also on my side of the story. I would just like to say you know on their birthday. His time to dress up and get the kids is sexy. Four vicious. DoN'T COME TO PARTY. Talks done this long as head. Which would six. The song was the base names It's like a French band afresh forever. Sexy kids sake CPA. Yeah yes sexy boy. Yes does is downright. This is very very good. So you watch Netflix. Say just like wow. This is sick. You're hooked up looking at shouted as everyone. Oh Wow they are about to you shower. Everyone that I know for a fact. Definitely do that when you put your Dick. Between your legs site sexy. I'm gender-neutral Mero. Who feel like a nut. Sometimes you don't wow. I can't believe they should just about this way. I'm now prime impressed. And also like no your spotify playlist of other songs for serial killers playing your head. That's definitely something that they play in you shop. It's a hundred percent choose. I can fix you yes. I'll take you sexy boy. Yeah Yeah You. Like attention for females have been your doubtful. Yeah you're the downforce. Well you're wearing air force ones with Nike socks and well. Sometimes I worked together. Sometimes it doesn't today. I'm not allowing. It was feeling Adidas. So I'll need your phone fees goodbye as I stab you we can. Do you use the Tyler. Perry you so. It's going to be done in three days. Really bad you'll be first avenue. Just add Darshan. Black man did how to save me. Joe's other way to say thank you have a Bible in his hand. He's just go through. Church was being plagued by Kiko Tyler. Perry slander so good so we eventually will turn Tyler Perry. Oh we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA make movies and they're gonNA be so bad and they're going to. They're not going to be so bad. They're just going to be so serious. If Bronx sizes and it'll be like. Oh my God Joe Wow graffiti awhile. We've outbreak dancing a movie about real hip hop. Wow you did in. Today's by Lucy's while you guys interchange it. They're like what's his movie about. I was like oh it's a Jamaican kid Dominican kid and they They work at a Bodega. It was like wow. It's always Jamaica Kidding Dominican and day work at a Dago that but day also Skits they skateboard. Yeah at the same time and this trying to lie GOPRO. Yeah put car. It's hard but we follow them through it. You know what I'm saying. What's going to be at that? Point studio are just going to give us money. Just keep making Is it really just make the end? Yeah we'll cool runnings one like you know like Jamaica's on a Bob said Jerky. Shut off Dizzy Berry. Sort OF EXPLOSIVE MALCOLM X. Start Oh shit on this date. Years ago he's threatening clicking on this day in nineteen sixty five. He was assassinated a Harlem in a barroom. Probably a condo right now. Actually was the Office for some nonprofit that I worked for for a minute. That was working at nonprofits. I was I was I was for necessarily now because it was just like it was it was it was two hundred early Altamira. No I remember that. I remember that time when everyone worked at a nonprofit a happy hour we're GONNA profit. I'm helping say pandas at a nonprofit. Donate AT OUR JOBS. But with the nonprofit knickers get require. We split the group TAB at the end of drinking so at Ono's so what are we doing? So this is the thing. A lot of a lot of nonprofit people were just shows the And a lot of private people didn't realize that nonprofit meant that you take an job there means that you will not so ought to realize that took a job there and they claim to fame was like Malcolm. X's doesn't it here? Yeah that's how it works is you're like why is that? Is that a good thing. I had to ex. She worked at a nonprofit when I met her. She was making thirty five K. Year they changed the policy for the nonprofit and the next issues making one sixty five A. We're not done. She didn't want to change how we split the rent out. We're GONNA nightclub like I'm paying rent and singles. Help me out here. I thought you can afford Ragu like I'M MAKING CATCH WATER SPAGHETTI. O's like Holo. Yeah we we same shelter. Her the brownstone she by no five. But you know what she has to have the joy that is me. That's right that's right but you guys do so see Russel I was kinda messy back then like we all were like like. I was picking up my clothes and stuff. Yeah I also used to smoke because the battle was air proof so you can smoke weed and the bathroom. You can smell anywhere else. In apartment so I smoke blunts about just the roaches on ball around the sink in the late. Yeah the wild trailer young New York. What do you want? Do I still do that. Now yes but you know the learning experience totally blitz. The best they are. Sometimes you don't WanNa full blood. Sometimes you just need a little moose a moose blunt. Yeah chocolate at the end the dinner. Yeah look a little. You know what I'm saying you know. Let's call cleansing Palais. Go a little puff of marijuana. Then you have a little rubbing alcohol go sleep you know we call that Dukakis right so is that the diesel for the Mr Franklin swing sacks. His head was via sexy. How Mirror your own here? You're turning me on talking about the sexy not going down that way. Because that's what the Republicans want to divide the Democrats right. That's right the Russian Boston. Making the boy sexy very unattractive. I'm pretty sanders. I'm voting against sixty boys boys. Boys Elizabeth Warren is like all. The boys are sexy. I'm here to tell you that my Weichel Bloomberg thinks that the boys are sexy. He's disgusting he's a pedophile. He's been he signed says various sexy Mike Lumber Days Michael Bloomberg wants the poll on a subway. Do not vote for him. He's terrible person. Michael Bloomberg always pecan Street fighter. Two Y you savage. Why Wow too far. Why caring was fighting a red cow. Blueberries holes are going down after the street fighter. Two allegations out say he's Blanca. Used to cheese with all people just like I always go opportunity. Always used Chung Li he's Vega. He's more of a damn view. That means you didn't start playing street fighter to fighter to championship edition this guy and uh and that's that's why he's also vacant vacant. I remember the first time I've seen the negative Vega Board. I was supposed to be coming home from school around the street. Five Tube Machines I heard the music and I was like I've never heard this before and I looked like a big a common offense and a nickel fucked him up his claws broke and I was like. Oh Shit he was cool and a kid that was doing it was like manosh along because he's done it before he was like you know that one K. Was working on time and was like your mother gives you quarters. That's crazy. Aw Schmo Mambi smacking me. 'cause she law dresses while I'm not even allowed to think about video. Games does video game magazines because I didn't have video games so I'm just reading Electronic Gaming. Monthly like wow when? I GET RICH. I'm going to buy a dreamcast. Look pages where the fastest like looking at. Sonic the Hedgehog Owl. Wow we're for the phone call. And they'll treat was super thirty uncle coal era. They had the list of games. Look at all of them he was like. Wow if I had arcade make money. 'cause arc annoyed that was like the fucking video game five copies of it were made some. Fungal. That was a yeah. We'll give you fifty nine dollars I sh- snicker about the cash-out gonNA retire after this shit we go for life. You're fifty nine dollars in the Bronx. Bitcoin is demands. All how many took Texas Blah a bar? All Boys Live Ninety. Five every dies crazy. It's the same perspective as coach k. in time after time we should redo time after time wrestling locker because slam after sign. Young thug right self. Oh and Ronit Lady Gaga shallow but with Sarraj's swallow. Oh right duress again dodging dodge a dodge in dodge. Wow Wow does your little we should be. I don't remember father at this age. Talking about porn is much different types. For Times he was just syllable his Old Boys Robert. Shaye show jobs thinking four kids. Oh workfare with with as it was still GonNa never idle if van. He working on some other days beating bracelets. He's making friendship bracelets so you won't buy Friendship Race. It's not that type of friend male female man-to-man why this was a good song. That Bob as the kids say you got a tag like Dj most o-negative Homophobia dancehall track homophobia abuse How I'm going back like what does that mean. What does signal to play me? You know what I'm saying. Oh this say songs things every not every show is a diagram. There are popular dasell songs. Popular Dancehall songs have homophobic lyrics. But not every also has a home there 'cause however there are some that are not homophobic but just have snuck hopeful lyrics in for no reason for no reason because you'll logon is such a joint. That's a street of homophobic saw. Because you didn't have to see that Singapore. Yeah it's not about not about checking your email. It's not about losing ticket. Part of is log on and on she. She lived on the sound energy. Now how about we try log on and check my mentioned on and check my. Dm's long on on an end to the bad part is they kinda shot himself in the foot because if they may log on and then add to step on teaching my apart and you just log on you know a twenty years. Mastercard is GONNA USE IN COMMERCIAL. Day could've been rich because they're not rich now all of the calling L. E. getting classical. Don't give a fuck about that. Shit that's still gonNA use it in a commercial. We had no idea who the other day was using widowhood at in a commercial and I was like have you heard him exit versus waste. Negatives have sex with the same sex. I was like defer crude snow dogs for hood with a hood and I was like. That's not what the song's about. That's not what the talks about like trying to kill each other in the street out now. They're just like owns his own. His greatest the one lyric. That's not so much more like the one stanza or the one I. It's just a matter of time before they bring back a cool runnings Doodo Dodo Dum. Do what these bitches to change it. What you're making from Olympics Cisco with a goal hair washed little we got a little good Cisco the Dow de Song About Dogs. Dogs weren't even exciting anymore. Well that's obviously the woman that they look at her dog. So she's like your your show me that piece of fabric that goes between your butch disappears at a certain point. Cisco was like that truck choke truck. Does I what were like. That's that a modest song now because now let me chasma straight which talking about Yo. Yo I WANNA each ask. I fucking neck reform. Face Lewis is shit on shuffle and truffle. Butter came on and I was just like God damn out like truffles butter is you know you know. And that was like and that was nuance. Yeah you know what I'm saying. It's on the time based on away. Relax phases detainees bitch. God show I played with it? Ball's in my mouth or some shit like wild. So wile okay with the rich gangs. Nicki Menaj Churn Nicki Menaj. Was You never dataman? Aaj as she said Carnaby you. An Ambush Menashe rightaid. But she says she doesn't get down like that so she was like Kinda doing Gig for views which it sounds like pay per view. Well that sounds like a wild Technical College paper like like a historical cheaper pretended to be clear language to. Yeah yes. Welcome to my tedtalk. My guess do our history days. Things were second deck. This friend for the cameras go to human audience. I was here for this. Thank you thank you thank you. Thank you any questions right. Now is their food How can I refill my coffee? What's Code because the reception? Here's really bad I've dated. I just got a text measure by data. Yeah do you are in control your data. They do you know how much data use them for your whole family for off so as like people are. Ats's you've gone over your limit. These New Jersey USA mad. Why Pro Fuck these TIC TAC? They are my craft. Shit robots to do is. I'll be reading New York Times incognito mode come on let me I'm not paying a subscription pebble with my fucking solar played Baio now is the real the real hip hop real real real data plan. Plan your data data data. Day Plan is break dancing. Ever GonNA come back. I hope not gonNA made a Corny and it would take. It was always Kinda Corny when I go. Why are you spending on your head and mclovin come on the rest of US having a good time now I got to watch out for you almost kicking me in the face? Yeah it's a dance like before you today as you have to flattened cardboard come on Bro. Those live we'll come on. Let's go to the park was cool like if you're doing it in the club. He's doing too much schools like the traffic and people like that. But what other shit pop lock? That's cool after a while you go on to close. Look Macarena but do like you're holding the gun. Hey Glock arena a targeted it. Fuck Tiger. How many times in my life has tiger beat me? God Deva Deva Tiger. He does reexamined archer. Definitely does not need tigon every song like the last good tiger song and this is the correct city actually rexiti product statement. Okay rhapsody could process is right underneath. Swag Surfing and important. Lactic was on accidents. Braxton eight you know what I'll say. What a shame There is a song by Tiger in Chris Brown Called bitches and marijuana and that she slaps and You know the first step in accepting the problem is admittedly problem Yeah I mean tiger. Got Bob's he got a couple of good joints got a couple of joints joints allowing vigilants lime in the coconut is I made or like below. Below made it enjoy. Is that good? Is that bad? This song I would have to say was pretty mid. Do you guys remember this little choon cord light skin little Wayne. Oh boy I'm a pussy fanatic. Obsessed with the BAT PUTS SPEAKING. He Gets Really Good Beats. Kelly the day of the big deal. He's just make sure when repeatable and and like when you're drunk drifts him when you club drunk Patrick you saw pretty sneaky Tiger Ron you there. We're on yeah. Remember when we first started his stripes that couldn't pronounce tiger properly according to do. I'm like oh I wonder if that's how you pronounce the why that's how you pronounce the why. I thought Tiger and 'cause it's like a house producers called Tiger Like that did like a high here. Remix I duNno but there's two diamonds there used to be a gay porn was learning. I'm not sure if his name was Tiger Tiger stripes down the side down the side of his body and I had to edit the box cover for one of my jobs. You know how to make like say for work so I like fake Lee for for his Dak and I had the right to go big. Booties wet gaping gross to control. You know it was like you had to like it was like a style guide kind of thing I was just like always just doing threes. Threes Threes Lama like that. That's what people want to see if you look. Most Porn. Charges are very standard West nasty dirty see period. People like that like that. Do like that doesn't know Father Episode One ninety. Nobody does it better naughty America. Our Naughty gotta give free luggage. Just give US reluctance. At this point we actually make our own for this coming day. Guy Porn. And just how? Y'All Sarah Jacob though you can smash while we do the podcast interview Sarraj's GonNa be bigger than we interviewed Letterman. I love you guys. I love to bring to the game guys on your show. I love having my sets. You Know Mama take off this because it's got to hurt me Bro. She's got mass tax young Poli Policy. Phallic Phallic here we go somewhere. D This universe at the Nevada Cuarto Mikhail going off to juvenile boss Mc Licko. Google seamless putting Soup the other day and it was like stop the way to ethnic. Come on. You know what we'll do tacos Rahman other that you all did you put for forty which are surely she next to be an even worse. I'm GonNa make her pump my gas. How difficult that if you drive up with a guy. Has You're pumping gas. He's sitting in a caller just back into smacking for turn the shit off. Fuck you sixty mile. We're all GONNA die. Don't pay for those young move faster. Young Koh Kun are- without the culinary he left handed reliever for the Yankees. Kfi Lo que Zeevi. Jesus we're going to throw out the heads up. They gotta do on the hits the topic. I mean the lawyers So there you go phone is GonNa J. Chocolate Stanley Cups. Human Dot. The bond is labor. Dilute Dalu Dalu Cochet Brow. Deodato TRAP MR P my Pino Blurry charged the jerk off. Because I have no idea what's going on and there's a lot of fragmentation is like micro funeral which is to wash. Fm Mirror already stole my washed FM. 'cause I was GONNA DO Air French band sexy boy. Sorry say we have a story. Abc You crime College I remember this day. Okay crime out bringing that heat out hips times. Where was this a way? Seven seven seven dam on all right the Jamaa Hash Mark Rossellini. Dra NEPHEWS NEPHEW Marino. You can't contain over the human memory. Where to jog around the region provocateur? Henrik because can't see me then rebuffing Ricky squatty talk more. Say It's a chestnut Mahatma Gandhi nine Maccabi but I gotta cucumber suppressor. Boy is I am the damn the Dundonald good news. A couple of new order's pre Castro book coming out at ten dollars. Get The sports as Gary Player. Going to muscle tips on top left. Man's mar touching checks jerk off. We got older and as we Sunny D. E. is these bloody shoes. Takim Noah Andrew. Junior junior comes down. I freeze two topic gossip asylum this out to one one seven nine one Linda's joking. When you see Charlie. Uc WE DON'T TOUCH JAG? Owed intake your man Jesus morning sheriff. Fabry's Amisi please believe black as adequate cracker back like automatic crap and the mess Marino refresh misdemeanor. Cold Demeanor user ones from Korea. They're good the one that says like Pearl on the Black Mars getting KPI for marketing. People issue bore Personal Zika problematic. Listen this in this in this is secret. Fantasy put them in a garage full of carbon monoxide. Our no one but hey come monoxide you best friend if you use it right. Is The human direct club Ak Donovan? Mcnabb Aka Curve Gotti Aka Chelsea Curve Pitcher motherfucking boxer. I think it's a boxer and see but I'm out of here. He was in Westminster. You asshole Shit my bad about it. I don't fuck it baby. I'll forget what I'm saying. It gave no check the guest us. I am the guesses a fuck aside while you check you. Ask All do not fuck. I am show now. State police and causing a Ruckus and David bills out. Akc DAB breath here it was a a GMC fantasy goes on. Schori was betrayed by my own flesh. Blood you know what I'm saying. It was awful backwards. You know what I'm saying. So we're GONNA a three grand blood and hatred with nine nine AK get into the SCHMOLLY SCHMUCK. It should boy. Gobi Schmidt is ringing the bell station owner. We haven't been there and how so we gotta take a quick man. I'll tell her smackdown were and we get off. Danny's and will be. Oh for SPEC TOWN. We've been living in her town house like I'll smack you know in the house. I mean it's not I mean I I mean I mean now now throw you ever sex in the city. Yeah Yeah. Y'All got brunch. Pretend to be Miranda. I'll see if you want a nice cafeteria. I'll it's Nice. I like the LOBSTER MAC and cheese go to Neiman. Marcus afterwards a Jimmy choos. I built my kids Merkin. Dream Theme Park Today the Year Dad. Park in a the AK dig it. You're you're supposed to know more about this to be now actually not does not belong to you. I respect authority and your agency my Queen so please request entry into magical native. Thank you magical lady K. K. bottlers. Anc SMOOTH I fall asleep at the wheel and crashes Zivka and I don't care because it was a hard fit. Took twenty minutes just to get into shape was antiquated Dominican. Data Document Daddy. You know what I'm saying is definitely money on it. Don't maybe embarrass you when the management comes up here for selfish and actually. I'll have the kids doing you. Asshole put the socks and the fuck condoms and the pivotal visible in the bag. It keeps moving. If you'd like a little target job by the fucker. I can't get a photo. I was gone. I just wanted to photo bad. I'm just superhero vegetables. Listen I listen to you every morning. Oh let's do it can't come on. Where's Envy Angelilli? I love you like you guys are great. You should this thing can get out of here handle the followed. Eat the mommy. Oh No let me find out. I'm a blackout because I don't know what I did yesterday because those but I know I got my Chelsea boots enough. Fuck you up catch. United pilots are wash is still touring the song that sounds like a car sexy new Honda. Enduro lighten up touchy. Hello we your job role gassing ever only Cherif Al bills or mortgages and my kids don't say an offensive flex a why but I don't Care What I'm saying AKA my. Tom Brady both flavor morning by before we we we. The motherfucking original Table Child Boys. The originators done greater. You know what I'm saying. Feel to ask but conceptually of course you know what I'm saying trying to see that Milky Way of discharge me Aka Lil Suzy. I tap on a live. You know what I'm in a bid dealer before all these rappers was out here while it pioneer saying they gave Frown Johns Aka Xena. Obita VILLE I gotTA get some stakes stakes stakes Rowan Joe Hookah. What's too small locations? Abbas to was remiss away. I'll be there. Yeah Pool winning. You know what I'm saying. Nice I got you. I got a group for all of us if not groupon even better on getting my sketchers. Oh it's fucking turn up last call. How your spanks for men got a little I fully? This is pretty heavy. Glocks set up. You know what they say. Glop glock big pun over here Bro. He Hey Ben Boston. My hands gifted. Have you ever reconstructed a poor child? Failing lungs using only equipment founded milk studios such as Old Bass Guitar. That barely works and amplifier from the Nineteen Seventies. No you have not ever in your life in your favorite save. Neurosurgeon could never pay homage. Kiss the ring you pieces of garbage kid to get the strap put this whole out of his misery again. I'll be your medicine cabinet. You Fuck it is. Boy is man. It's GonNa again also Gabe beautiful garbage away. Much is not stay. They not from Delaware. Say Nino Brown. Shut the jail. You know what? I'm saying AKA. Why from the corner of Gao concours and St East? Cb doing all his greatest hits walnut trying not to be hit by traffic. What I wanted and You know nothings. I'm not getting no insurance money. You know what I'm saying. This is a weekly occurrence mate here. He goes every week. I'll tell you this site. State of Union. Make Them Claro. If your presence was enough for you to Roxas length of heard this too the plans as the sky onesie you be slow tree a Georgy bottle to say okay. I'm Mike Francesa -NIFICANT AK Barloon in Portland slogan legal or Mellows as coming off the bench. And he don't care. Listen man if you see me at target higher bowl bowls do rag approach me with caution but he will react. And you won't like this right puts me like a motherfucker or saw mammal dog vibes. You don't say hey. Hey I'm here for your birthday party is over all. I'm so sorry but my friend Mr Fun Fun to entertain kids. He's he's on his way. I can't tie it just like history month right so you guys want to here by Dr Carver in charge like peanuts so like I want to see the three p. you know why did you say is the planners man rapper. I don't even know he's going to this point. I use it but some type of its concussions. Now I'm just mixing chemicals that are finding my garage and hoping for the best. You know what I'm saying. Good enough so then I'm probably going to slap or by not out a steamboat. Y- Ego Yeah. How's that going came under Poppy Lady? Poppy Show Bull Chelsea well. You know what I'm saying and me no matter you know saying we are here these donkey. Lindo say a model Mama half of this grass Yak ADAMAS OUR AUDIBLE PORNO SADISM. Bro Ahead. So Gosh up one time for this is John Component of fucking ODA shutdown. Just Kabo poppy. That are common monitor. You are saying shut a big. There might be a puppy that our lady Cowan establish a on a subtle diesels and older and odaguard. Not Making you know what I'm saying. It gave Charlemagne were they dial must do and I planned delays. It got time by that. Starting gay one day we'll eat is again under the location. Shot out say way and I- Ladies and gentlemen thank us all ankle tying Admiral freaky and ask me to do something episode owner William at all. No Yeah I just started watching. Narcos look down as reading the subtitles mad loss. I'll take it back. I don't know the sun just came from your got the cocaine. Oh that's great so one. Ninety one is right out to cash agile to the milk studios right say we love you forever religion to vibes. We go hit him with the vibe from can't say pop recipes pop. Sir Alf the Yankees hit. They wanted O. Y. Interested in buying a luxury suite for the season. Oh Yeah Yeah. Yeah what do I like one of the Walmart ten and that was that was a guy. Buy Tickets on Stub. I'll buy two beers on my show coexist balances absolutely not even for the full season. This is like for a couple of game. The twins the twins Cincinnati suck twins reds. Jay's you WanNa go in you got extra eleven thou- eleventh-hour for eight games. If I if we get a fucking sweet you'll get thrown out this week. I'm doing a straight line of coke right by the hot dog. Shit we'll turn to the eighties over. Sorry guys sorry. Sorry I'm look I can save him in the Narcos Lau. Three Aaron Judge seems a little too hot swing the BAT.

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