6 Episode results for "Congressman Mac Thornberry"

Full Episode: Sunday, June 23, 2019

This Week with George Stephanopoulos

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Full Episode: Sunday, June 23, 2019

"Hey, I'm Brad milkey, and I hosted new daily news podcast from ABC news called start here. Every day we get you up to speed on the stories that are going to be driving your day. We get important context from experts with on the ground access, and we do it all in twenty minutes. So start smart. And subscribe to start here brought to you by indeed used by over three million businesses for hiring where business owners and HR professionals can post job openings with screener questions, than sort review and communicate with candidates from an online dashboard. Learn more at indeed dot com slash ABC. This week with George Stephanopoulos stocks. Right now back from the break President Trump defends his abrupt about face with Iran. Everybody was saying, war monger, now, they say I'm, I'm a man with common sense, who isn't vising the commander in chief in these tents times, I make the decision, the world waiting to see what that decision will be is a retire. Alien, Tori strike even still on the table. And how would Iran respond? Former chair of the joint chiefs veteran of the situation room, Admiral Mike Mullen is here live, along with the top Republican on the House Armed Services committee, plus Cory Booker calls out, Joe Biden over comments on segregationists, then faces backlash from the front runner corn, should apologize knows better. Vice president five shoot. This lesson Senator Booker is here live just three days before the Democrats face off in their first primary debates. From ABC news say this week here now co-anchor, Martha Raddatz. Good morning and welcome to this week. So President Trump says military action is still on the table when it comes to the standoff with Iran, but this morning, there is no sign that a retaliatory strike is imminent after the president abruptly changed his mind, Thursday night that decision may be one of the most consequential of his presidency. When Iran shot down one of America's most sophisticated drones over the strait of Hormuz members of his cabinet and leaders in his party seemed to convince him to punch back, but Friday Trump explained his last minute reversal tweeting. We were cocked and loaded to retaliate on three different sides. But because of potential casualties, the president decided the response would not be proportionate. Of course, politics looms large over all of this, the president. Campaigned on ending wars in the Middle East, and a new conflict could cost him crucial votes candidate Trump in two thousand sixteen called America's foreign policy, a complete and total disaster with no vision. Fast forward to this week. We're left asking, what is President Trump's foreign policy doctrine? It's clear. It's one of tough talk recall his fire and fury threats against North Korea and this week, he made this bold that clarification. I'm not looking for war. And if there is it'll be obliteration. Like you've never seen before so far. He's approved a cyber strike on Iran and double down on inflicting punishing sanctions that strategy. He's employed before the escalating tensions come a little over a year since President Trump pulled out of the Iran nuclear deal. The ripple effects of that move are crippling Iran's economy. So was this escalation predictable? I was in Tehran, just a few weeks ago and asked to Ron's foreign minister Zarif what it would take to get our two countries back to the negotiating table threats gang stewed on never work. Threaten audion, tried respect that make work. Let's bring in ABC's, James Longman who's in the Persian Gulf near the waters where those commercial oil tankers were targeted last week and ABC news senior Washington. Correspondent Terry Moran. Who's been covering the twists and turns of this week from the White House James. Let's start with you. Tell us what you're seeing there in the region. Dega morning. Mojo. This region is basically still worried about some kind of military response from the United States off to that drone was shot down in the skies above me. The pressure has been growing for some time since those all time because we're attacked in these his hair and this morning. Well learning President Trump approved offensive cyber strike on Iran in response to those hits confirms to ABC news computer systems that control rocket and missile launches. Disabled Sunday now, tat, Ron has yet to comment on the cyber strike. But is adamant the down the US drones straight into its as base a claim the US flatly denies thumb in its assessment. This was an unprovoked attack over international waters. All this, of course in the context of those crippling sanctions imposed by the US inflation in Iran is at thirty percent. And the says it's a Konami will shrink by six percent this year. President Trump hopes that will force Iran back to the negotiating table. But this is a dangerous game of brinkmanship. There are so many flashpoints across the Middle East and beyond where Iranian and US interests could collide Mafa a dangerous game. Indeed. Thank you, James, and Terry. I want to start with the president's tweet last night. He said, I never called the strike against Iran back as people are incorrectly reporting. I just stopped it from going forward at this time is he concerned about not looking tough enough? You sure is a, it's a matter of semantics really in some ways. But what we're looking at is a president who governs by instinct. He's an instinctual president. And we're seeing his instincts conflict. He made one basic promised that people who sent him to Washington no more wars, any made a promise. To conservative activists into Israel. We're going to get on top of Iran without the nuclear deal, it's hard to put those together. There are reports that a Fox News host talked him out at this who's really advising him. Why he listens to all kinds of people in an unorthodox way. He's a person as I say, who governs by instinct, or people around him who say whoever's in the room, last whoever's got his, his ear last, but it's clear that he's trying to find a way out of a box that he put himself in and he's looking for somebody who can help them out of it. How does he keep Iran essentially subjugated? How does he limit their ambitions in that region? Limit their nuclear program without a deal that was meant to do that. And no military conflict. That's a hard problem. Okay. Thanks for joining us Terry. Thanks more. And we're joined now by former chairman of the joint chiefs, Mike Mullen, who served as principal military adviser to two presidents Obama and Bush. He spent his life commanding warships from the Persian Gulf, too. The Pacific and knows every weapon system and Ramon, thanks for joining us this morning. And I want to start the president said he called off the strikes when he heard about the possible casualty count of one hundred fifty he called it off minutes before launch despite reports, he knew broadly about the casualties from previous briefings. Is this the way it should happen? You're very concerned that it would happen. So near to execution obviously the process that actually routinely assesses and, and looks at collateral damage the specifically or how many people could possibly be killed is, is fairly normal? It's very, very unusual not unprecedented that a strike would be called off so closely to its execution at could or should the military, then given options to the president, where there were fewer possible casualties. Or maybe none at all? We know the military as you said, it always has these different scenarios planned will, I think, in this crisis. You as in many, you look at a proportional response, and you've heard that term used. And so you want to do something that is re typically that is related to what has happened. And these these missile batteries were tied very specifically to the shootdown you want to focus on that in terms of targeting. And then you do the assessment for how many people are there, and as I understand it, this was going to be a very early morning, strike. So you work to minimize that certainly for a proportional response. So I think that's the relationship we'd had a drone shot down by a missile system. And that at least as I understand that the intention was to take out three of the sites that were involved in that kind of capability, there are numerous reports, and including here at ABC that John Bolton and Mike Pompeo were advocating to go ahead with that strike, and Bolton is saying, and Israel this morning, Iran should not mistake, US prudence and. Aggression for weakness. Do you think the president is being pushed towards a confrontation by John Bolton? It, it appears that we're certainly headed in that direction. Certainly John Bolton has that reputation he's, he's been hawkish for ever and very focused on regime change in Iran. My, my biggest concern is the president is running out of room running out of options, and while the rhetoric goes back and forth and how close, we came to hitting her on just the other day that this thing could spin out of control and the last thing in the world, we need right now is a war with Iran. I, I really would like to know that the American people who feel we should not go to war with Iran are pressing their congressman their senators and everybody in the public domain, to make sure that no matter what happens with respect to where we are with Iran right now. That we do not go to war, that's our system here. And I think the politicians need to figure out a way to achieve the objective, which is Ron without a nuclear weapon without in from my perspective without regime change without going to war. But how do you do that? What if they get a nuclear weapon, no war? Well, I think again, it's been pretty clear for some time the objective is to have a Ron without a nuclear weapon. The if you can't make sure that, that happens diplomatically, we're back to the future in many ways, because we should recall that when the, the nuclear deal was signed, Iran was within about three months of having enough nuclear material to put a weapon together. I suspect they wouldn't be more than a year or a year and a half away of getting back to that position. They've already started to, to enrich uranium, and Iran, with a nuclear weapon would start to proliferate nuclear weapons in the Middle East, which is incredibly dangerous, other countries would then probably generate that kind of capability in the Middle East has got a lot of problems, and we don't need more nukes. The other way you go at it is, if they have one is you attack the militarily I can tell you those attacking the militarily is. Very, very difficult task to actually make it happen. I know. John Bolton is in Israel this month. The I'm sorry, this week and the, the situation in Israel has moved to, to a more aggressive stance politically, and I worry a great deal that if Ron gets to a point where they start to enrich again. And it looks like they're going to develop a weapon that certainly Israel would strike them. And what about these cyber attacks that have been reported is that enough? It's hard to know. Exactly. What is enough? Certainly you could argue there some proportion there, particularly as reported if they affect the systems that, that actually executed this shot against our drone that said, one of the things that's happened in the last six, seven years as Ron has developed a very, very capable cyber system, cyber capability cyber expertise. So. So given what happened in the last couple of days with us attacking their systems. I would fully expect that they would respond in, in some manner in the in the cyber way. And again, that's in many ways, that's a new domain. Sometimes it's easily contained sometimes it gets out of proportion or out of control very easily. So I think we all have to be very, very careful what I would hope would happen, Martha is that the leaders of these two countries send the signals to stand this down, so that we can figure out a way to get where we need to go. Thanks very much, Admiral Mullen, for adding your perspective up next top Republican on the House Armed Services, committee, shares his insider perspective on President Trump's last-minute reversal on striking Iran, plus democratic presidential candidate, Cory Booker joins us live when you're hiring, you don't wanna waste time sorting through dozens of irrelevant resumes. You want an efficient way to. Get to a shortlist of qualified candidates. That's why you need indeed dot com post a job in minutes. Set up screener questions, based on your job requirements, then zero in on qualified candidates using an intuitive online dashboard. Discover why three million businesses use indeed for hiring post a job today at indeed dot com slash ABC. Search for greatness. Search indeed better help offers licensed professional counselors specialized in a wide array of issues, like depression, anxiety, and grief. Connect with your professional counselor in a safe, private online environment. It's a truly affordable option and listeners can get ten percent off your first month by going to better help dot com slash this week fill out a questionnaire to help them assess your needs and get matched with a counselor. You'll love. Do we have a lot of a radiant? And they're great people. I have friends that are radiant many friends living in New York City, you meet many Iranians. They're very far. They're very impatient to have tremendous high-quality people. But I have many friends that are radian. I don't wanna kill a hundred and fifty radiance. I understand it. As President Trump made those life and death decisions about possible retaliation against Iran. Our next guest, Texas congressman MAC Thornberry was there in the situation room? He's the top Republican on the Armed Services Committee, congressman Thornberry. Good morning. You were with President Trump at the White House Thursday afternoon. With hill leadership being briefed about the drone shootdown and possible response. Right. After that meeting, you issued a statement with other Republicans saying President Trump and his national security team remained clear eyed on the situation, and what must be done in response to increased Orion aggression. So when you left the White House where you expecting retaliatory strike well, one of the things about that meeting, Martha. There were equal numbers of Republicans and Democrats, the president after laying out the intelligence situation was really listening to everyone's. Views. And, and one of my takeaways was that there was no one around the table who said we should do nothing everyone. Agreed that shooting down an unarmed American aircraft deserved a response. Now, there was some variation of us about, whether it should be Connectik or whether sanctions cyber, you know, the level of, of response. But most everybody thought it should be on the lower end of the range of possibilities that the president was provided now. He didn't tell us what he was going to do. But I think it is to his credit that before the president took action. He wanted them. Just listen to Republicans democrat leaders in congress and see what they thought any listened. So what was your reaction when you heard he wasn't going ahead with a Connecticut, military strike? Well, I think it's a hard judgment call. The president is clearly trying to navigate a fine line to show that you. You cannot attack Americans and American military equipment. Without having a response at the same time, he's very conscious of not getting on an escalatory ladder that leads to a military conflict that neither side wants, so you want to be strong enough to show, you can't push us around, but you also don't want to get on a path that takes you in, in a dangerous drink. That's what he's trying to navigate. So if our you've got you've got the additional sanctions, you've got these cyber attacks. Do you think that's enough in, in your eyes would be proportional if he does anything less than a military retaliatory strike after shut down on one hundred thirty million dollar drone in an unprovoked attack? Well that's going to really depend on the Iranians you. This story is not over. And the question is, how do they respond to this realm? Wli restrained response by President Trump. Now, if they come and say, okay, we need to talk. We don't want to let this get out of hand. That's one thing if they go back to mining tankers shooting at American aircraft, the sort of pattern of activity, we've since seen since April, then obviously, the president has a whole range of additional responses that he could employees. But he's given himself a lot of headroom, if you will, there's a lot, there are a number of other military and, and probably other actions that could be taken if Iran ins decide that they want to continue this aggressive provocative, sort of okay? But they, they have already shot down a drone and I want to remind you of some of the language that President Trump Trump has made in the past. Let me read from a year ago to Iranian president Honey never, ever threaten the United States again or you will suffer. Consequences, the likes of which few throughout history of ever suffered before we are no longer a country that will stand for your demented words of violence and death. Be cautious. And now he is basically saying he appreciated them not shooting down a mandate aircraft. He said, perhaps, the strike on the drone was just by some loose and stupid person is he softening his stance. Well, I think he's giving the Iranians every opportunity to back out of this sokoll of increasing violence that they have embarked upon for the past few months, giving them every opportunity to get out of that, and go towards a more productive negotiating sort of path. And, you know, I think it's hard to criticize the president for giving them every opportunity, but there's obviously a limit to to that. And that's why I say if Iran goes back to mining tankers, the, the sorts of things they've been doing. Here lately, then we have a whole range of military and other responses, which we can employ and. President will we'll look to do that and encouragement I just want to quickly turn to immigration, President Trump reversed his decision on Iran, and then yesterday suddenly reverses decision about mass deportation that he said would start tomorrow. What's going on here? Well, I think as the president said he heard a lot of concerns from some folks on the hill. He decided to delay the decision. You know, the, the, the challenge is, if there is a lawful deportation order, that is the law of the land, and it is the job of the executive branch in our system of government to enforce the law. Now in the bigger sense of things, I hope that we can have folks in congress and the administration set down, and at least work through some of these immigration issues. Right now, we're trying to get some additional funding to take care of the migrants, who are at the border that's been far harder than it should be an humanitarian sort of things this, this political standoff. Off when it comes to immigration and border security is has got to end even if we don't agree on everything there ought to be some steps. We can take together where we do agree. Okay. Thanks very much for joining us this morning. Swing you talk about boy, I be something different us. Call a racist. Nike normal. You're not that's not the Biden got to know. Don't understand though. I do understand. That's not what I said, though. They didn't print the whole deal you know what I mean. The context of this was totally different. And by the way, the fact of the matter is, I ran against all those folks. Get got to deal with what's in front of you the woman's in front of a bunch of racists, and we had to defeat them. Former vice president, Joe Biden there, ask, again, last night to explain his comments this week about working with segregationists. I'm joined now by New Jersey. Senator Corey Booker live from Columbia, South Carolina. Senator Booker good morning. But before we turn to politics, you are running to be the next commander in chief. So put aside for a moment. Your thoughts about how this Iran crisis began did the president make the right call by stopping the retaliatory strike Thursday night. I don't think you can pull this out of context of him from the very beginning of his presidency taking a belligerent course of escalation and publication with Iran. I mean, we pulled out of a anti nuclear deal that gave us complete transparency into their nuclear program. We literally isolated ourselves from our allies instead us out on a very fragile limb towards conflict, where we could break it anytime and find ourselves. Perilously closer and closer to war. Today, Senator so so into the question about whether he made the right call. Well, I think there's bipartisan group of senators that spoke pretty clearly last week that this president cannot take military action against Iran without coming to congress. The two thousand one authorization for the use of military force does not cover a military strike against Iran. The constitution speaks very clearly on this that he needs to come to congress before he engages in military action that again could have us tumbling towards chaos and war in that region. So, so what would you have done? You're on the foreign relations committee. You know how complicated this is with Iran. You are running for president Iran shoots down. One of our drones. What do you do? Well, first and foremost, again, the critical crisis, we have is not just a drone being shot down. But now, Iran has moved back to where it was before which could be months from getting a nuclear weapon, which puts us again in that. Region on the brink of chaos. Again, this president that does not have a strategy. And unfortunately, has made us weaker. We are the strongest nation on the planet earth. But our strength is magnified and multiplied. We stand them coalition with our allies with other western democracies and we are not there right now. Even when there are strikes on tankers. We see again our allies very skeptical to even believe us right now. We are in a weaker position. We are in a box in a corner within Iran regime now racing back towards a nuclear weapon. And this situation is getting more and more tents, not less. This has been folly there is no strategy here. We have a president, that seems to be doing this, like a reality TV show and trying to build more drama and trying to make a foreign policy by tweet we have to as a nation work in coordination with our allies to denuclearize Iran, and to bring stability and peace to that region. There's a serious threat. If you were elected president, you would inherit what's going on right now? So what would you do? That's different if Iran is on a path to get the nuclear weapon, I would rejoin with our allies, I would work to renegotiate and get us back into a place where we are standing together with our allies and have, like, we had before, which was ten to twenty year, runway and transparency in vision into their enrichment. Processes to make sure that they were abiding by an anti nuclear deal. This entire episode is something that Donald Trump solely has pushed us to. And now we are, as I said, in a terrible corner with a regime that is already shown, its belligerence, this regime has shown that it is a bad actor in that region. But now they're closer to a nuclear weapon, which could trigger peripheral vision around the region, it could trigger a. A military conflict and have us tumbling back into a Middle East war that will cost American lives and trillions of American dollars. Senator Bricker I wanted turn back to politics and to vice president Biden's comments. He, he said he worked along segregationists in congress in order to get things done. You call the comments deeply disappointing, but the two of you spoke privately on Wednesday evening. What was your takeaway from that conversation? We'll, I've said my piece, I, I've a lot of respect for Joe Biden and gratitude towards him. And that's even more of a responsibility that I have to have to be candid candid with him to speak truth. The power he is a presidential nominee. And to say something and again, it's not about working across the aisle, if anything I've that a hallmark of my time in the Senate to get big things done and legislation passed this is about him. Evoking a terrible power dynamic that he showed a lack of understanding or sensitivity to buy. By invoking this idea that he was called son by white segregationists. Who yet they see him in him their son? He's out of tanks. I didn't I didn't understand that. I think I listened to the full totality of what he was talking about. And frankly, I heard from many, many African Americans who found the comments hurtful, look, we make mistakes. We sometimes tread upon issues that maybe we aren't knowledgeable, but I don't think the vice president should need this lesson. But this was a time for him to be healing, and to be helpful, especially at a time that he is looking to bring this party together and lead us in what is the most important election of our lifetime. And I was disappointed. I've said my piece we had a very constructive conversation, again, I have a tremendous amount of respect and appreciation for the vice president. That's why again I felt really important, especially with our friends, not to sweep things under the rug but to be candidate straightforward with each other. I, I want to move to the twenty twenty debates you're in South Carolina. You took part in the very famous fish fry last night. Congressman Jim Clyburn, fish fry. Clyburn said he was surprised you and Kamla Harris. Were not getting more support in his state but said he thinks you are quote suffering from the shadows coming out from under the shadows of Barack Obama. Is that a fair comment? Look, we have a two hundred thirty days before this voting in Iowa. It's a very, very long time. And so I'm very competent in the campaign that we're running here. And we've seen if you vote President Obama, he was pulling well behind secretary Clinton, excuse me. At that time, Senator Clinton at this point in the polls, we I'm looking forward to this campaign to this debate on Wednesday night to put myself my ideal, my heart and my passion before the American people. I'm excited about the road ahead. I'll great cow, Senator. How do you break out from that crowded? You're up against Elizabeth Warren that night who's doing better in the polls will again a polling. This out is, you know, has very little indication about who ultimately will be the nominee. There's ten people on that stage and we have an incredible field of candidates, and I think it would be a good opportunity for the American people to see us all. And to see our spirit to see our ideas, and frankly to understand a our vision for the country, and I'm looking forward to the opportunity. I'm grateful that the DNC is doing this. Okay. Thanks very much Senator book like this week. Okay. The roundtables all here, ABC news political analyst, Matthew, Dowd. NPR White House reporter, I shall Roscoe Republican strategist, and ABC news contributor, Sara Fagin and democratic strategist are, are shot Hasan, welcome to all of you Matthew gonna start with you, as I often do vice president Joe Biden's comments, you, you just heard Senator Booker talk about that, although he didn't reveal a whole lot about that conversation is Joe Biden out of touch with the Democratic Party will this hurt him. Well, I think this specific thing is just a moment that I don't think we'll do any lasting damage them. I think this underlines a bigger problem for Joe Biden, which is Joe Biden started serving in office before eight track came and went and he is in place. He's trapped in time and. I think he has to figure out that the words the actions the policies of the nineteen seventies early nineteen eighties. Don't apply to the twenty first century Democratic Party. And I think that's one of his main pressure points for the debates that we'll talk about is how does he demonstrate that he fits where the Democratic Party is and where America's today as opposed to wear? It was when he first got elected in the seventies that seems a natural question to you or how does he do this? Do you think those comments linger? Well, here's the thing. He's voting segregationist from forty years ago. Think about the largest growing block in the Democratic Party. That's young voters people into thirty five who are still trying to figure out what an eight track tape. It. Right. Remember one? Yeah. And this is a problem. This is a problem. So if he can't relate to the largest growing block he needs to do better. I think it's a it's important to note that Democrats, these days, expect our candidates people to speak competently on issues of race. And now you should they've only been campaigning for few months. Everybody in this in this race and the democratic race. But the twenty twenty candidates pretty much offering harsher. Criticism of one. Another Cory Booker Harris was with Bernie Sanders all knocked Biden's comments. Is it something that you think is going to happen? More and more. This just a moment they had to respond to that, and they'll lay back. I mean what you've seen is that Biden has been able to keep this lead. And as long as he's in the front like this, he's going to have this target on his back and the problem for him. Is that this time he kind of shot his own self in the foot, so you can't do that? You can't kind of like have the weakness showing. Showing and then you're gonna have people kind of jump on that. And we should say, we don't know what impact this is going to have, particularly on black voters until we see more polling. We just won't know. And even though you have people like John Lewis Saint congressman John Lewis saying that they didn't think that this was a problem. You know, the black vote is not monolithic, and we will have to see how this is going to play out with younger black voters who may want something a bit different. And, and we've seen on the on the campaign trail over the last couple of years before it really kicked in that some African American voters. Democrats are saying they felt they were taken for granted by the Democratic Party. Absolutely. And some and some voters will want something more bold. And even though and obviously Biden is going to be talking a lot about a former President Obama and trying to tie himself as closely to him as possible. There is gonna be a question. Okay. Yes, he was with Obama. But okay, what happens going forward? And is this, the person that we really want to bring for the policy? These that are going to help the black community when it comes to education when it comes to the economy and really making a difference, because you still see even with low black unemployment now that this administration talks about a lot. It is double white unemployment, and that is real people's lives. And in their an and in their circumstances in, Sarah. How are you seeing all this? How do these candidates balanced going after their opponents and still supporting the party? I think some important context is to remember that at this point in the two thousand sixteen cycle Donald Trump was at one percent. So it is very very early and what we see playing out in this party right now, appears to be sort of a struggle between their heart in their head and their heart is with Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders and their head is with, you know, Joe Biden, perhaps people to judge. And so this debate coming up, we'll be really interesting to see if Elizabeth Warren given her preferred status on that first night. One of the soul front runners on the stage. King breakout and Ken start to even more narrow narrow the gap with Bernie Sanders because I think ultimately, what we're going to see at the end is one very progressive candidate and one more centrist democrat like Joe Biden in, in Matthew on Elizabeth Warren. She's the highest profile candidate on that Wednesday night debate. Is it good for her that she doesn't have to share the stage with Biden or Bernie Sanders? I thought I think she got a really good draw. I mean and plus coupled with the draw that she has where she could stand at all her own and not fight on with Bernie Sanders, which I don't actually understand why Bernie Sanders hasn't figured out that Biden isn't his complication for winning the nomination Biden is not his complication for winning. His nomination Elizabeth Warren is his complication for winning the nomination but because she's also been on a rise in the last month, but Elizabeth Warren has been the fastest rising candidate over the last four or five weeks prior. Nearly all due to a substantive policy. Roll out that she's had from the beginning of this thing. So I think she's got a huge benefit so being this big standalone character on Wednesday night. And then there are the others. How do they break out? I know we've, we've been talking about that a lot this morning. I mean, is it just knowing their message? Is it being a Cory Booker there and never straying from your message at all? How do you break up? Do you want to break out the two dozen candidates? So you have to break out. I've moderated one of those debates. Keeping track is on the stage. Well, here's the things, I think, in the beginning, you really need to establish who you are. What kind of what kind of candidate you are? We're going to characterize your person. You are some of these candidates have had a great shot at doing that. Those who haven't by now I think now we're moving onto what do you stand for. So even established who you are. You're not going to be able to stand out at all. So I think we're going to start seeing the winnowing of the field. I hope I hope earlier rather than later, who is the most concerns, I share in not establishing who they are what they want getting that message through well, I think someone like a Cory Booker, who has really in, in a sense, a national profile, maybe not the name recognition of other people, but he just hasn't gotten there yet. And then you had the people who just, just having broken through at all, like Senator Amy klobuchar and, and, you know, Jill brand these people, they, they are going to have to try to do something to stand now or at least not to hurt themselves in these. Debates. And I mean, I think that might be the biggest thing is to not do something that would put yourself out of the running in these debate. You have you have to go you have to be in. You have to be in the top four or five candidates by the time all these debates are done, but before you get diet, what because otherwise you're not going to have a chance to me, this is like the World Cup group stage, which is, is you have to perform well enough in a series of these to get to the knockout round. And I think the people Amy klobuchar Kamala Harris all the ones that are under performing Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden are have to figure out a way to get into that. Top four or five so that they're surviving until the voting starts, Sarah, Donald Trump kicked off his campaign this week, you were there at that rally, an an incredibly enthusiastic crowd, which I'm sure you, you felt while you were there. And yet that speech might as well have been in twenty-six, teen twenty fifteen well that work. It's worked for him so far. And you know he gave he spoke for a long time. It was incredibly passionate and the crowd and never stopped cheering. And having been at a lot of Republican events, most of them more traditional in my life. It was like a convention in that room. And I was really struck by that. But I think you know, people worked for him before. Well, we're try original wall. I mean their promises that have not been kept. So does does does he does he get off the hook? Maybe next time. I'll do that. Well, I mean, look, if he says, the wall is being built, and so in his supporters agreed with that they believe that he is taking administrative action to build the wall. Now, certainly congress has taken no action, that may not be technically true, but his supporters San behind him and believe he's the only one trying to take action on an issue that they care about what struck me was the numbers around that rally. And again, you know, these candidates and islands South Carolina are getting two and four hundred people at their events, which is typical at this time, but even as a. As a Bush operative, we will get four or five or six thousand people, and that was a really good event, most of the time, one hundred twenty thousand people express interest, twenty percent of them are Democrats, people assume that this election is going to be about some fringe part of the Republican base. The base is completely different includes a lot of different types limit here for Moshe just on this one. I, I want to push back on the oh, this is work for him so far he isn't really breached anywhere. Above forty two forty three percent approval rating. The reason why there's twenty four candidates in the race is because Democrats believe they have a real shot. Donald Trump hasn't been able to break past his base, and you can't get elected just on the crowd size alone about forty five percent approval rating, which is far lower than he will need on election day. But if a third party candidate emerges, which is quite possible, forty five percent. We'll get Donald Trump. Reelected I, I should. I, I wanna go to you on this though. We've got a Donald Trump who's changing his mind a lot on immigration. Enforcing the. Deportation. Starting tomorrow pushback by Nancy Pelosi is one of our, our people here said he has said, I will enforce tariffs, then no, Iran will suffer greatly. Then the raid called off. I will close the border. I will not I will conduct rates. I will not his that negotiating tactic. How do people view this, I think it, this is definitely, some a part of his strategy is this kind of high risk high reward but also, maybe not follow through, sometimes it's he does these big threats. I'm gonna shut down the border, you will be obliterated. You Iran be no more. The, the issue is. And sometimes he does follow through like with China. He threatened big tariffs you went through on those tears. But when you do these kind of big threats, I am going to impose these huge tariffs on Mexico, which will then affect the US's. Well, sometimes like Mexico. They will kind of roll over come and play ball. But then, sometimes you're dealing with Iran, and they may not want to play ball in. Matthew. I want to give you a last word on Iran, and this, and the seriousness of that I know he decided not to go forward. Is he said he doesn't clearly doesn't actually you, you give him credit for that. But then what? Well, I think that's the problem. And I think we're, we're in such a level of distrust, on both sides of these valid distrust of Iran for all the things they've done in the tear up rations they've conduct in the world, but they have valid distrust of ours. People should not forget that we helped overthrow their government in the nineteen fifties. We actually helped provide them nuclear capability, and we shut down one of their airliners in the nineteen eighties. So there's valid distrust which is with the concern. I have is how do you rebuild that before you launch anything militarily in a new Kaiser poll out this week, eighty seven percent of democratic leaning voters say it's very important to them to hear the candidates talk about healthcare. And so it's no wonder so many presidential candidates are making it a central part of their campaigns in the first. Stolman of our new critical care series, ABC news. David Wright looks at Medicare for all who's for it who's against it, and what it would mean for you. It's an issue on which many of the twenty twenty Democrats broadly agree, the American people want and we all going to deliver a Medicare for all Medicare from Medicare for all. That's why I am for Medicare for all Medicare for all promising to solve America's health care crisis. In one fell swoop? The idea really came of age during Bernie Sanders. 2016 run for president, we being ripped off by the drug companies, he started with the premise that access to affordable healthcare to. Right. Not a privilege. We have got to do battle, he proposes replacing most private health insurance with a popular national health care plan. That already exists Medicare is currently limited to seniors and the disabled, but under his plan all Americans would have access to affordable. Government issued health insurance. Despite all their Weiming Americans actually don't want to get rid of their employer sponsored insurance. They're uncertain about getting rid of it. Second of all, clearly, the insurers would not like to be put out of business health insurance is now a trillion dollar a year business, a powerful vested interest with big money to spend and bigger money to lose, it ought to be called Medicare for nine Republicans focus on expanding private insurance options, helping Senate leader. Mitch McConnell says no large Medicare legislation will move on his watch. If you want to turn American to socialist country. This is the first step. He's has plans like Senator Sanders could cost the federal government thirty two trillion dollars over ten years, which would inevitably mean higher taxes for Americans, still, there's a growing people power on the democratic side. We. Metcalf mall, including the largest nurses union in the country. Mortiz Chisholm, a registered nurse from Chicago has been fighting for this at the grassroots, we I caught up with her in South Carolina talking to voters there. Of a civil rights activists who marched with Dr king back in Chicago. She canvas his with other nurses after work. She knows that disparities in healthcare system or especially bleak for racial and ethnic minorities, you come at this for civil rights background. Do you see the fight for universal healthcare to be a civil rights issue? Yeah. It is the United States is one of the largest league greatest country in the world, and for us not to ensure everyone that is inhumane for some Democrats sit still a bridge too far. Joe Biden officer sort of expanded ObamaCare. What you're covering it through your employer on your own or not. You all should have a choice to be able to buy into a public option plan for Medicare in theory, if consumers had that so called public option of Medicare would force private insurance. To up their game. We're lose out that idea appeals to Senator Michael Bennet to if we want universal healthcare. I think we're a lot better off saying the American people, you have an option. If we tell the American people, we have to take it away from you before you can have universal healthcare. It's never gonna work, but is it enough to win over progressives with that big a good compromise? Our movement is Medicare for all no water down. We are not septic anything less than Medicare flow, making Medicare for all the litmus tests on the democratic side is a very bad idea. We should be open to lots of ways of getting to universal coverage in the United States, but I also think it's a big political hill. Maybe so. But activists like Martinez them. It's a mountain worth climbing. How important is this election in terms of moving this issue forward this? That moment this is out time. And we are rise. We rise. Our thanks to David Wright, truly a big topic on the debate stages this week. That's all for us today. Thanks for sharing part of your Sunday with us and have a great day. Brought to you by indeed used by over three million businesses for hiring, where business owners and HR professionals can post job openings with screener questions, than sort review and communicate with candidates from an online dashboard. Learn more at indeed dot com slash ABC.

President Trump Trump president Iran Joe Biden President Obama ABC United States Senator Booker Middle East Senator vice president South Carolina Vice president Senator Sanders Admiral Mike Mullen Martha Raddatz congress America ABC
Full Episode: Sunday, November 10, 2019

This Week with George Stephanopoulos

46:29 min | 1 year ago

Full Episode: Sunday, November 10, 2019

"This week with George Stephanopoulos starts right now. Impeachment goes public we will begin open hearings. President trump defiant despite like damaging testimony was just a continuation of the hope. It's a disgrace folk thing. We'll these open hearings. BE A game changer. For Congress the President and the nation this morning will break down the key moments so far plus the perspective from both sides of the aisle representatives. Jackie Speier and and Mac Thornberry join US line and will he or won't he will billionaire Michael Bloomberg shakeup. The twenty twenty race inside and analysis from our powerhouse. Roundtable Mary Bruce Matthew Down US Mukalla Jonathan Swan plus an ABC News Exclusive Veterans Day weekend. The president's new top military adviser Chairman Mark Lilly in his first interview. How important is it to keep an American presence? In Syria the footprint will be small but the objective will remain the same enduring defeat devices from. ABC News this week he now co Laker rutted. Good morning and welcome to this week. It started with one whistleblower now less than two months later a full blown impeachment pitchman inquiry set to reach a critical phase the first public testimony that will likely shape public perceptions of the investigation and the future of of the trump presidency. The central questions wasn't an abuse of power for the president to ask a foreign leader to investigate a political rival here at home was he acting to further his own personal and political interests by withholding military aid from a key ally with all of the rhetoric flying from on both sides of the aisle and president. Trump's own freewheeling defense we wanted to hit the pause button and ask how did we get here. The actions taken to date by the president has seriously violated the Constitution September Twenty Fourth House Speaker. Nancy Pelosi formerly opens an impeachment inquiry after a bombshell whistle blower complaint raised concerns over trump's July phone call with the Ukrainian President Vladimir Alinsky. The conversation was was perfect by phone. Call was perfect. According to White House memo detailing debt call trump tells the Ukrainian president. We do a lot for Ukraine Linski later respond. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically buying American anti I tank missiles. Trump's response I would like you to do us a favor though he goes on to asks Alinsky to investigate a deep bunk theory about the twenty. He's sixteen election and then a second request an investigation into his Democratic rival. It goes to the core of whether the president abuse his office office to seek political help in his reelection campaign and did so to the detriment of our nation security house. Democrats have issued at least twenty-six Twenty six subpoenas and at least fifteen individuals have appeared before Congress according to witness testimony. Trump's demand was pushed his top advisors including his acting chief of staff and his personal attorney in phone calls and meetings for months among the key. Testimony Johnny so far. Bill Taylor the top US diplomat in Ukraine who told Congress he was told everything including military aid and a White House meeting was contingent contingent on Ukraine's willingness to launch the investigation trump requested. Gordon Sunlen the US ambassador to the EU who in a stunning about-face revised his testimony Sunlen now saying he told a top. Ukrainian official Ukraine would likely not receive military eight unless Ukraine publicly agreed to investigate. Trump's targets and lieutenant. Colonel Alexander Vincent a White House national security official who was on that July phone call Vin men recalled one meeting in particular where senior Ukrainian officials were told. They had to investigate the Biden's curnow inman also testified. He was told the whole on. Military aid came from the White House. Chief of staff office in the face of mounting evidence. The president has been unrelenting in his defense impeach with John All a hoax. Republicans Largely Ardsley closing ranks around the President as Democrats move forward. Those open hearings will be an opportunity for the American people to evaluate evaluate the witnesses for themselves to make their own determinations about the credibility of the witnesses but also to learn first hand about the facts of the president's misconduct and joining me now to break this down. Further is ABC News Senior. National correspondent Terry Moran. And Terry I WANNA start with these public hearings and who the the public will see testify to big witnesses to lead off. William Taylor was the acting ambassador in Ukraine and George Kennedy State Department official with responsibility over. So you're GONNA get a picture from Kiev from Ukraine and from Washington from two men who were very alarmed about what was going on and then the end of the at the end of the week Maria Ivanovich which who was the ambassador who was pushed out by Rudy Giuliani and others in the administration and Terry really at the heart of this is a federal law that says it would be illegal it to accept receive or solicit anything of value from four national in connection with the US election. There are those who say the phone transcript itself showed wrote that but now we have this long line of witnesses. We do a lot of election. Lawyers will tell you that the phone transcript does demonstrate that the president violated election law. Some elections. Shaw will tell you know because it doesn't have a determinate monetary value and. That's a debate in election law. But really this isn't about election it's about the constitution and and the question. Does the evidence show that the president abused his power by trying to get a foreign government go after his political rival. Is that an impeachable offense. It's the constitution. Really that I think the congress and the country's going to focus on and the whistle blower a lot of attention obviously on the whistleblower doesn't sound like that whistle blower will be appearing. Do you think it's important. Well not not from an evidentiary standpoint. Adam Schiff the chairman of the intelligence committee said other witnesses in sworn testimony have borne out. What the whistle blower complaint plaint says? So he's not or she is not necessary in testimony it's probably true from evidence and federal law protects this whistle blower from any kind of retaliation and there is a concern concerned. The inflammatory language might endanger the whistle blower. But I covered jury trials for longtime juries like to eyeball with this. And we're talking about overturning. A presidential election there will be Americans for home. The impeachment evidence is less persuasive his diminished because they can't see and know the person who started their motivations Sion's and intent and in Teheran. No you've covered the the Clinton impeachment. You obviously followed the Nixon impeachment as a little kid. But what are the possible outcomes here here well. The president could be removed from office. I think there's some confusion about the word impeachment. Impeachment is the indictment it is going to go to the floor of the House of Representatives. Almost certainly and it looks says if the president will be impeach to be a trial in the Senate and if sixty seven senators or two thirds of the senators present vote the president will be removed from office. But I think ultimately what we're looking at is the final verdict will come from the American people on Election Day about this conduct about whether or not we WANNA presidency that goes to other governments for assistance and going after political rivals and that the election day now less than a year away will be the ultimate verdict on all of this. Thanks as always terry thanks. So let's bring in democratic representative. Jackie Speier a member of the Intelligence Committee which will conduct those public hearings this week. Thanks so much for joining us. Let we ask you. Robert Muller's public testimony earlier. This year did not galvanize public opinion on the findings of his investigation into Russian interference in the two thousand sixteen gene election and while this is obviously a different allegation. How do you make a stronger public case? This time I think for a number of reasons. First of all Bob Muller's report was four hundred pages. Long had a lot of lease. This is a very simple straight-forward act. The president broke the law. He went on a telephone call with the president of Ukraine. And said I have a favor though and then proceeded to ask for an investigation of his rival and this is a very strong case of bribery. Because you have an elected official the president demanding action of a foreign one country in this case of an providing something of value which is the investigation and he is withholding aid. Which is is that official act and the constitutions very clear treason bribery or acts of omission Shen and in this case it is clearly one of those obviously Republicans would disagree with you on a lot of that? Republican sent their list of witnesses. They they WANNA call as part of the intelligence committees public impeachment hearings. Yesterday it included the whistle blower and Hunter Biden. But this is what intelligence committee chairman. Adam Adam Shifts said in a statement last night this inquiry is not and will not serve however as a vehicle to undertake the same sham investigation into the Biden's Sir Twenty sixteen and in the letter to Republicans shift calling the whistle blowers testimony redundant and unnecessary and would only place their personal safety. The at grave risk. It doesn't sound like the chairman will allow Biden or the whistle blower to testify as the Republicans have requested if you're able to guarantee not his or her safety. Why shouldn't the whistle blower testify well the whistle blower actually provided a document? He was third hand. We have Colonel Vin men who was actually on the call who will be in a position. I think to testify and so you you have a much more direct person to speak to about the events and you have the actual transcript that the president himself provided that is corroboration so you have what we have to prove though is corrupt intent and we prove corrupt intent by showing first of all. The money was withheld. Secondly there was concealment. There's concealment by virtue of having that transcript put into a special server you have concealment because you have persons within the administration. Who are prevented from testifying you? Then go further and you you have this diversion by the president by trying to focus on the whistle blower who legally has a right not to be a congresswoman even though even though Oh they're meadow government even though there may be a legal. Right are Terry Moran was just saying it's someone that people might want to hear from for for political benefit is. Is that something you should consider. Having the whistle blower come forward because Republicans have made such an issue of this I think the Republicans are making king issue of anything that they think will give them some gravitas. The only thing that the whistle blower can say is that he was told by other people's about the phone call. We have the other people coming forward to actually testify so you have direct evidence not indirect evidence. Let's and the whistle blower has great risk associated with his life right now and he also has the right under the law under the whistle blower statue statue to have his whistle blower complaint filed and for him to be anonymous very strong about whistle blower protection. And you've who says the rules driving. The impeachment process are very equal and yet chairman shift. Hand turned down those gop witnesses and the White House lawyers are not allowed to participate in public hearings before the House Intelligence Committee. How is that very equal? Well there are other witnesses. The Republicans have requested that I would think that the the chairman is going to make available to testify to Morrison as one Kurt. Volker is another. We Wanna stay focused on the Ukraine call. Paul and having Hunter Biden come in is unrelated to the crane call and so that becomes irrelevant. The whistle blower again has protection as it relates to having the witnesses be questioned by someone within the White House that that can in fact happen. The president can have a conclusion they can reach at the end of the Actual Judiciary Committee hearing. And All we're asking for is that we receive what we are rightly deserving which is the documentation from State Department all of which is with been withheld and the primary people like Mulvaney. Who is the chief of staff who took direct orders from the president of course is using this phony argument uh of absolute immunity which doesn't exist in the law? Okay we thank you for joining us this morning congresswoman Speier will have the Republican response when we come back you you may have heard about a VPN that was recently breached. Hackers compromised the very thing that WIFI users relied on to help keep them private online. Thankfully there's a VPN you can choose that comes comes from trusted leader and Consumer Cyber Security Norton Secure VPN. It uses bank grade. Encryption to help block hackers from stealing the Info you send and receive over Wifi. It's it's part of the all in one protection. You get with Norton three sixty with lifelock. It includes Norton secure. VPN device security identity theft protection and more. Don't risk compromising your online privacy with the wrong. VPN Get a VPN. That's part of the all in one protection you need for today's connected world get Norton Sixty with lifelock no one can prevent all cybercrime. I'm an identity. Theft or monitor all transactions at all businesses but Norton. Three sixty with lifelock is a powerful ally for your cyber safety sign up today and save twenty five percent off your first first year by going to Norton Dot com slash ABC. That's twenty five percent off Norton three sixty with lifelock at Norton dot com slash. ABC NORTON DOT COM SLASH ABC. You there are perfectly appropriate in quid. Pro Quo and there are unappropriate Crib Quinn for coach anytime that anyone talks to the president. He's been very clear. There is no linkage. There is no quid pro quo. What I I can tell you? About the trump policy toward Ukraine. It was incoherent. It depends on who you talk to. They seem to be incapable of forming up with just some of the Republican defense of the president this week. So let's bring in Congressman. Mac thornberry the top Republican on the House Armed Services Committee and Congressman Thornberry. You just heard Congresswoman Speier lay out the democratic strategy for these public hearings Republicans of criticized the process of this inquiry up to now now. What's the Republican strategy to combat the substance of these allegations? Well you started out Martha by saying how did we get here and let me add a couple of things to that because I think it is important to remember. Shortly after President Trump was inaugurated. There were Democrats rats who were calling for him to be impeached because they were so surprised that the results of the last election we literally had two and a half years of investigations. Sion's subpoenas the Muller report all of that and then all of a sudden September the whistle blower comes forward and says. Oh but there's this this conversation that I worried about all of that. Two and a half years of investigation gets swept aside and now the Democrats put all of their eggs in this one basket. The problem is they started this basket not with the Nixon and Clinton precedence as far as making sure there was was appropriate transparency and due process. They have made it one sided from the beginning very partisan so. I think whatever happens now. there will be attained to this one-sided partisan approach to impeachment that is different than has been used before and so I think there will be intense skepticism about whatever they come up with again. They don't letter Smith. I we will you there they. They don't let the witnesses come. It has been one-sided from the beginning congressman here again talking about Ross Process the process. Ask You about substance. How defend against this substance well as you know? May maybe you know Martha I believe that. It is inappropriate for a president to ask a foreign leader to investigate a political rival. Now leads to a question. If there's a political rival with a a family member WHO's involved in question activity what do you do. Just let them alone but set that aside. I believe it was an appropriate. I do not believe it was impeachable. And and I you know. y'All always want to say substance not process. There's a reason. We let murderers and robbers and rapists. Go free when they're due. Process rights have been violated. We believe the integrity of the system the integrity of the Constitution the Integrity Birdie of the processes under our legal system is more important than the outcome of one particular case so. I don't think you can sweep process under the rug. Doug because it is part of an impeachment decision which has a constitutional requirement bribery treason high crimes and misdemeanors but also a political element about whether it's good for the country to pursue it. Under these circumstances. Why is what you have seen not ought a clear abuse of power? I know you've said it's inappropriate. His remarks but not impeachable. Why is what you've seen? Thus far in the transcript of that phone call which we discussed not a clear abuse of power or bribery as the constitution lays out. You're right. The constitution is very specific. Bribery treason high crimes and misdemeanors which basically means felonies. So that's what you have to prove as a threshold shoulder question. The second question is under the circumstances. Do you believe that. It's good for the country to proceed with impeachment. I would suggest couple of circumstances dances are relevant. Here number one is. There's not really anything that the president said in that phone call. That's different than he says in public all the time. So is there some sort of abuse abuse of power that rises to that threshold. That is different than the American people have been hearing for three years. I don't hear that. But but secondly we do. We have an election coming up so doing it at this time and make no mistake. The Democrats are rushing this through by Christmas. So they don't interfere here with their candidates being in Iowa New Hampshire and so forth next year. Let the IMB put everything. They've got out there fine. Let let me ask you quickly sir. Let's odd this in in less than a year. Let me ask you quickly. Do you believe the whistle blower should testify. And do you believe Hunter Biden should testify. I have not been in the room for all like most members of Congress I've been in the room for all of these hearings and and and and secret secret proceedings so I don't really know who the proper witnesses ought to be. I mean I think what Jackie Speier says right the hunter the whistle blower basically has third hand information Not Necessary to what extent I don't know to what extent extent he or she may have information that relates to other people's information so I can't make that call I think it's got to be the people in the room. mm-hmm who make the call but again there has to be a fair way to arbitrate to decide who the witnesses are. We've had none of that so far. Okay okay thanks very much for joining us. This morning congressman thornberry. Thank you Mr President for the trust and confidence that you have placed in me you can rest assured that I will always provide you. Informed candidate impartial military advice. That was general Mark Milley taking on his new role as the Twentieth Twentieth Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of staff a little over a month ago the principal military adviser to the president. I I met Milly. Nearly fifteen years ago ago on his first deployment to Iraq on a night patrol in two thousand five in Baghdad and again on a deployment to Afghanistan ten years ago this time. I traveled to the Pentagon ahead of Veterans Day. Tomorrow where we talked about the meaning of service but I started by asking him about current troop levels in Syria area. After president. Trump's recent call to withdraw forces. If I do my math and I look at the new troops going in and those going out it could be more than seven hundred who remain there'll be less than a thousand For sure and in probably in the five hundred ish frame Maybe six But it's in that it's in that area but we're not going to go into specific numbers because we're still going through the analysis. How important is it to keep an American presence in Syria? There are still isis fighters in the region and unless pressure is maintained unless attention attention is maintained on on that group Then there's a very real possibility that conditions could be set for reemergence devices. So we're committed to do that The footprint will be small all but the objective will remain the same enduring defeat devices. We've now killed Baghdadi the leader of Isis. They've named a new leader. Tell us what you know about that new leader and what effect really will the death of Baghdadi have on Isis is death will have a very significant disruptive trump defect on on the organization as a whole they have apparently replaced him with another leader We do have a lot of information on that individual and we'll see in the days ahead and weeks and the months ahead If he's able to piece together his his organization or not We'll pay close attention to them and we're opportunities arise arise. We'll go after him as well. Iran announced this week. It would begin injecting uranium gas into centrifuges. They keep pushing this. Making more provocative moves with their nuclear program. Where does this end? Iran's been a challenge for the United States since the Ed Revolution Nineteen seventy-nine. We hope diplomatic efforts will resolve the nuclear issue of the development of nuclear weapons with Iran And we place our faith in the a diplomatic efforts but at the same time will will make sure that we maintain appropriate levels of military capabilities in the region to defend American interests if required the US says that Iran was responsible for attacking those tankers that they are responsible for shooting down a highly sophisticated very expensive assertive American drone and yet there haven't been significant consequences. Well there's been consequences. Government has chosen not to react militarily at this time but we have the capability to. We've added some capability Just as recently as last month and we'll see it depends on the scope scale and nature of any kind of provocation. Iran does or any kind of threat they do against US forces in particular Organs you US interests or our friends and allies in the region and want to move to Afghanistan. We have been in Afghanistan more than eighteen years. What would you say to someone who is eighteen? Years Old. Who Male or female female may end up serving a war that began before they were born? Well I think we have to go back to the original reason why we are in Afghanistan to to begin with which is nine one one so we went there in order to make sure that Afghanistan never again would be a haven a safe haven to terrorists that would attack the United States? That mission is not yet complete And in order for that mission to be successful The government of Afghanistan the Afghan security forces are going to have to be able to sustain Their own internal security to prevent terrorism using territory to attack other countries especially the United States That efforts ongoing it's been ongoing for eighteen consecutive years. I suspect it'll be ongoing into the future for for several more years. And when you say that that we're going to be there that long that makes me think we'll be there that long in Iraq and Syria wherever the Islamic comic status. I think that It's not just as long as it's other groups but I think that we will be there for a significant amount of time because it's in our national interest Chris to be there to help out. I WanNa ask you about Ukraine. Ukraine obviously has been a very hot topic of late. How important is the military aid to Ukraine especially with Russia there on its border? Well here we are on the thirtieth anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall and since that time Russia has aggressively acted against Ukraine and the United States chose to help Ukraine with With money with advisory Aid With training and manning equipping through two administrations. And we're continuing to do that so I think it's important to continue to help. Ukraine maintain its Sir free and sovereign status. And I WANNA ask you about lieutenant. Colonel Alexander Vitamin who has been testifying on the hill. Do you have any questions about his loyalty to you. Know Lieutenant Colonel. I don't personally know the ten commandments but I will say that What I have learned over the years as an an active duty military officer is not to comment on active investigations? And I do know that Lieutenant Amendment is a witness to an active duty or an active investigation should being conducted by Congress. Right now so it would be inappropriate for me to make any public comments on on one of the witnesses. It is Veterans Day on Monday. And and as I look at you and so many other veterans I see especially those bars those stripes on your rights sleep each one of those means six months in combat zone. You've got ten of those five years so many others have sacrificed so much in the ultimate ultimate ultimate sacrifice as well the veteran's Day to honor all of our veterans. And first of all who do you think about well. I mean the first veterans I met with my mother and father both veterans of World War Two and my dad was in the Fourth Marine Division's Navy Cormon in the Fourth Marine Division made the assault landings at a Lean Saipan Kenyon. He Will Jima. saw some very horrendous combat And then my mother served in the Navy She was a medical orderly at a hospital and Seattle taking care of the wounded. They clearly Put Sense of service gave me a sense of how lucky I was to be an American American lucky. It was to grow up in a country where we have freedom of speech freedom of press freedom of religion in a wide variety of other privileges and rights. That are not well known around the world. Many many places I've had About two hundred and forty two soldiers have been killed on my command in one way or another since nine one one I think of them A lot at all kinds of times of the day and two o'clock in the morning eyes pop open and you start thinking about what those young men and women and have done for this country and the freedoms we have Martha or not free. They're paid for the the blood of all. The Sodas sailors airmen marines have been fighting for it for two and a half century's fewer than one percent serve in the military in this country. You went to Princeton played hockey instead of West Point. What is it that you could explain to those Americans who don't serve? When I went to Princeton I met the hockey coach? And he was a marine captain from Vietnam And he introduced me to ROTC. He said it's an opportunity here if that's on your mind So I thought I'd do that in my country for four years and then get out But here I am forty years later later so I have not looked back. I've never regretted it and I think service to the country and service to the nation is a very important Calling our thanks to the chairman and in all of our veterans. Here's the story of your win. They're gonNA make like home. And if you lose sticking to say trump suffered the greatest defeat in the history of the world. This was the greatest. You can't let that happen to me. That was president trump campaigning in Kentucky. Monday ahead of the state's closely watched governor's race this week. The result still too close to call but the Democratic candidate in the lead there in a state president trump won by thirty points in two thousand sixteen in nearby Mississippi the GOP candidate managed to close. Win while posing Louisiana have the Democratic incumbent governor a ahead going into a runoff this Saturday so just how bad of a sign are. These governor's races for the GOP and isn't a potential sign of trouble for for Republicans in two thousand twenty. We asked five thirty. Eight's nate silver DEA BY THAT SO Republicans did not have a great night on on Tuesday. And I don't really buy any White House spin. This was a good set of results for Trump Kentucky Mississippi Louisiana these are really red states places where the gop he usually wins easily. But I also don't buy that. This is any major reason for trump to panic. Here's why governors races are Quirky and local factors automatic no matter more than national partisanship. That's how you can end up with. Republican governors in states like Massachusetts Maryland in Vermont and democratic ones in places like Montana Montana and and if you go back to Kentucky all the other Republicans running statewide one on Tuesday night also the track record of these states and predicting the next. This year's presidential election is checkered at best Louisiana for instance has often pointed in the wrong direction in double digit win for Democrats in the gubernatorial race. As there in two thousand fifteen obviously did not predict a great year for Democrats in two thousand sixteen for example. And Look I get it. It's always good to see people actually voting but these results mostly told us things we already knew from previous elections and from the polls. It's not a surprise at affluent suburbs moving toward Democrats or that rural areas are becoming redder for for instance. That's been perhaps the most important and frankly obvious if you look at the map. Political trend of the past decade holes also tell us that elections right now are a little little bit of an uphill battle for Republicans trump's approval rating remains well underwater and Republicans trail by five or six points in polls ask people which party they'd rather see control. Congress as the midterms taught us last year trump will win and lose his fair share of races but he doesn't defy political gravity and our thanks tonight. So let's bring in the powerhouse roundtable. ABC News Senior Congressional correspondent. Mary Bruce ABC News Political Analyst Matthew Dowd. NPR political correspondent and it s macaulay and axios national political reporter. Jonathan Swan welcome to all of you and Mary. I'm going to start with you since you basically live Apple Hill. How do you see these public hearings playing out you heard I'm sure congresswoman Speier thornberry? What are you looking at? Well this is all about persuasion lesion at this point we know what these witnesses are going to testify. We've read these transcripts now. Democrats have to sell this to the American public. They know that they have got to build a a compelling case about why they feel. The president abused his power and why that rises to the level of how the Constitution describes bribery. High crimes and Misdemeanors Democrats. Democrats are going to try and stay laser focused on the president's actions here on his actions to pressure Ukraine they feel congresswoman. Speier said that this is a cut and dry case and easier to sell to the American public but they are acutely aware that they have muddied up the messaging in the path. They're going to have to cut through the noise. That is not always exactly and I know and she said this again and it's so simple but it really even. This seems to have been muddied up in the last few weeks. So so what do you think the Democrats have to do differently map. I think get Joe. They have to continue to present their case that they presented over the last month in a clear and concise way. If anybody thinks the public numbers are going to move dramatically different post hearing. It's it's delusional because there is already a majority or plurality is all for impeachment and removal almost at the height level that was Richard Nixon at the end before he resides. So it's not gonNA move that much. I think what they're going to try to do is present such a compelling case to push unbelievable pressure on the senators Republican senators in the Senate when it goes over there after after. I think they'll vote on impeachment. I think this is all been muddied up. I think one of the things that you were asking this earlier about the whistle blower. I think that whole thing is a distraction. The whistle blowers basically the person pulled the fire alarm and then everybody showed up and said there is a fire and there isn't arsonists there and the arsonists now has admitted to starting the fire. Now what do we do about that. So the whistleblower blur the person that pulled the fire alarm has nothing to do with where the Republicans are using that. It looks like as a distraction and so what else can they they do. I know they've moved. Jim Jordan to the intelligence committee presumably to defend the president. He's a very loyal defender of the president's and so that is part. How did the strategy? I think what I will be very curious to watch this. Week is how we see the Republicans ever-evolving defense. Because I think what happened if you look back to. The Muller Investigation is in some always. There was a pretty steady line of defense from the president was no collusion no collusion I think in this situation. Democrats are going to have to present a really airtight in case because we're already beginning to hear from Republicans you know. Maybe this was and I don't WanNa say a quid pro quo. But maybe some folks are acknowledging that that is a possibility but was it really an impeachable offense. I mean there's sort of an ever evolving defense from Republicans and that's why we're beginning to see him. They added to their witness list. Hunter Biden who Democrats would argue. Argue is irrelevant to this particular. And there's probably no way you'll see hundred. No no no way. Jonathan I the president seems to be using the same kind kind of strategy which which which which part two which window so is there a new strategy as we go into these public hearings the other than that I mean even Mac thornberry was was pretty much talking about process. Yeah I think you're going to see well. I think I know from reporting that you're going nece- two things over all this week from the White House and Republicans on Capitol Hill Number one is going to be emphasizing that none of these witnesses have firsthand knowledge. They know the people in the room talking to the president. So you'll see a lot of republican questions to people like Bill Taylor. So did you hear this from and who did they hear this from and try the emphasis. The degrees of separation The other thing that they're going to do is particularly with George. Kent the second State Department with us they are. We're going to try and make this about Hunter Biden because he admitted to raising concerns about Hunter Biden back in two thousand fifteen so expect the Republican questioning in that particular hearing hiring. We'll be to try and create that as a sort of alternative parallel narrative to what the substance of and compensation we've we've talked about people in the room or not in the room at the White House we've heard from John Bolton's lawyer that he has some rather tantalizing details that we haven't heard He is clearly not going to go up there unless court tells him to go there. What do you think the likelihood is and do you really need someone like Bolton so I think the likelihood who is almost zero because Democrats? I've been talking to house leadership and other Democrats involved over the last two days. They are not inclined to get into litigated this to to have a court fight even though the courts did signal that willing to do it pretty quickly. I think people do misunderstand. John Bolton the assumption the from some of the coverage I saw with that he was a trump quisling doing this out of losy. I'd actually don't believe that to be the case. I believe that Human Chuck Cooper his lawyer who go back decades actually do kind of care about the separation of Palestine if he's a trump quisling he's doing a pretty good job of hiding it because he signed a book deal with James Commes Book agents. He's criticized trump on North Korea. And I think at some point actually we will hear them damaging things from John Bolton. I've maybe not maybe not next. And how. How important is it that there is someone like John Bolton or Mick Mulvaney the president's acting chief of staff well Republicans will argue that? You need that person right to to draw that direct act link and Democrats liked to talk to him short. Do they feel they absolutely need to to make a compelling case. No Democrats would not be moving into this public phase into to public hearings. They did not feel that they already have the goods. Essentially they already have enough evidence to move forward and they are quick to point out that every time a bulletin or Mulvaney refuses their request West. They feel that's further evidence that the president and the White House is obstructing. And I WANNA turn quickly to the twenty twenty race big news this week with the possibility ability that Michael Bloomberg might join the race. Here's how some of the candidates responded and the Democratic field you. I want to run for president. That's fine don't think you can simply by an election by spending billions of dollars. We have a strong field. I here we need someone else in it terms of he's running because I last I looked at it. I'm pretty far ahead okay. Then but Bloomberg said back back in March. She wasn't going to run so why run now. The sense is that there is some nervousness amongst establishment Democrats and Democratic High Dollar Dollar donors about the current state of the race. I think there's nervousness about Joe Biden as a primary candidate and then there's nervousness about Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren as a potential general the election. Kennedy now I would argue if you talked to Democratic voters which I do a lot of time. They're really happy with this field. About three quarters of Democrats when you look at the polling are are satisfied despite their options but some of them are establishment voices as the establishment. Democratic Party always gets nervous election. They absolutely want to win and they think they need to win. In the course I this I think one of the things that I think we do badly in the media and oftentimes in the politics is that we think in eternity is like three years or two months or two weeks or whatever to me. This race looks a lot like when I look back at all the races. Interestingly enough in the aftermath of Watergate is nine hundred seventy six and nineteen seventy six there were. Seventeen candidates ran the most diverse field at that point in time to run. US senators former governors people. That were vice presidential candidates in all of that field and who emerged somebody comedy. That was at two percent in the polls for most of the time. Jimmy Carter who wasn't even an elected official at the time and there was this constant thing of Bloomberg pulled it about four percent instantly and and today and so I think there are today seven or eight candidates in the field or could be in the field at Bloomberg gets in that have the potential to be the Democratic nominee. This is going to have have lots of twists and turns. It's not it's not Joe Biden's race it's done. It's not billed as warns race. It's not Bernie Sanders race. I think this race could twist and turn throughout the primary process process going forward from from. Oh it's fine to pull out your nine hundred seventy six and say this rantings happened before it's actually would have to be more rare in that because what Bloomberg is saying is. I'm basically going to ignore you. Iowa New Hampshire South Carolina. Forget you guys. I'm going to do this. Massive get funding. I'm I'm just GONNA spend an absolute gobsmack sum of money on Super Tuesday across blanketing the country with TB appetizing. We've never seen anything like this before. And I I do not take kindly to being ignored. And if he gets crushed in those two states but there is the Democratic nominee can emerge. Did you didn't win Iowa. Who did you say Clinton came back in? He had an eye. Let's everywhere article that we look at. When we see see this is that we're in a very disruptive time and the idea that you can run a traditional race and win this is gone and we do know the polls show? There's plenty of room for wiggle room here. There's there is a lot of potential movement but it does create a problem for Joe Biden like Bloomberg if he does get in is going into Biden's lane and he's coming with a ton of cash and the fact that we we know the Bloomberg is thinking about making this step in part because he's concerned the Biden is fading and it underscores the anxiety out there among Democrats about whether Biden can pull this off just that that alone. Those optics aren't great for Biden and Jonathan and elsewhere. Who are the people out there? No matter how much money is spent who are saying yes. Michael Bloomberg is finally getting in the race so so it was funny like asthma would probably have a better view of this the May Dan Bolshoi moisture pursuit of heroically. Tried to find a Bloomberg voter in New Hampshire. Komo craving Mike Bloomberg. When I talk to donors it's really the donors who are craving a Mike Bloomberg and I wonder whether it's it's human his ecosystem with the feedback? He gets you must Mike. You'll the savior. I just don't know how many voters in Iowa and New Hampshire feel like that. I mean it takes a lot of gumption to be a seventy seven year old thinking that you're going to change the sort of baby boomer dynamics of this race I mean at this point I would say I've met here and there. Somebody who's been excited about a Michael Bloomberg candidacy but I would argue. He's got to get through a Democratic primary and part of Joe Biden strength is his support amongst African American voters. Michael Bloomberg is somebody who has a pretty contentious past when it comes to issues. WHO's around policing even some of his skepticism? Around the metoo movement those are going to be stumbling blocks in a democratic and create a Great Talking Point for Warren in Sanders. They'd already has ask by the way with just about billion another one to rail against they were very quick both Warren and sanders to come out and talk about why they don't think this is a good thing I think. Some moderates may be wondering if Bloomberg entering the race may just hand Warrant a little bit of a boost but it also gives an opportunity to to me. I mean we. We focused on. Yes it does help them post up against about it. Gets Michael Bloomberg it does give people like Joe Biden and budgets and opportunity to prove out there progressive live mantle by saying this is not what we want in the field again. I'm going to emphasize this. This is a race that is undecided at this point with seventy five percent. The people saying they're satisfied with the race. You have seventy five percent of the people that say. They're not solid in their choice yet in this race in one look at the elections this week. You heard nate silver for talk about the meaning of those elections. The still too close to call and Kentucky Big Wins in Virginia. What are you reading into that I? I'm really cautious about over interpreting. The results salts as being a positive for Democrats and I say that in part. Because if you look at some of the Gallup polling that's come out recently just asking voters Democrats and Republicans. Are you enthusiastic about the race. Usually the party that is out of power is more enthusiastic and this case that should be the Democrats what we saw is Republicans and Democrats about equally enthusiastic and. I don't think that that's a a great sign for Democrat marriages quickly. Well I think what I find interesting about the racist this week was the impeachment factors so many Republicans thinking that they could run on impeachment that there would be this backlash to all but that didn't turn out to be the case especially in Kentucky if anything we saw that impeachment was firing up Democrats not necessarily moving Republicans to stand firmly with the Republican candidate Canada. And we'll see if they continue to be fired up after this next week and many beyond thanks to all of you for joining us today and that's all for us today. Thanks for sharing part of your Sunday with us. Check out world news tonight and be sure to tune in Wednesday for. ABC's live coverage of the impeachment inquiry public testimony. That's this Wednesday Wednesday starting at ten. Am Eastern have a great day and remember veterans. ABC News. Honored hurt winner of four. Edward R Murrow award including the most prestigious on her overall excellence in television. ABC News America's number. One News Choice. There's a murderer who's been on the loose for over four decades and authorities are running out of time to catch him. I'm Sunny Halston from. ABC News Join Me and the ABC News Investigative Unit as we search for Leicester Eubanks we embed with the authorities were tracking the killer and ask the question Ashton. Have you seen this man. Listen on Apple podcasts or your favorite podcast APP.

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What would cutting off aid to Central America mean?

PRI's The World

45:54 min | 1 year ago

What would cutting off aid to Central America mean?

"For the world's podcast and the following message. Come from legalzoom running a small business is a lot of work. It takes time and money, and you on all the time and money you have to go towards growing your business. But what happens when legal hurdles pop up along. The way legalzoom is there to help get advice for running your business from vetted independent attorneys and tax professionals available in all fifty states. The best part is you won't get charged by the hour since legalzoom isn't a law firm checkout legalzoom's business legal plan at legalzoom dot com now and get special savings when you enter the word world at checkout. Legalzoom where life meets legal legalzoom dot com. What cutting aid to Central America would mean today on the world? I'm Marco werman. The Trump administration wants to cut aid to three Central American nations. The president says they need to do more to stop their people from migrating north, but local laws can make that difficult. Just like an American. You can't stop an American from traveling abroad. Will you can't stop Guatemalan Honduran from leaving their country as well? Also, US aid is supposed to help fight the root causes of migration from the region. So who gets hurt of the dollars go away? Jen, people families fleeing violence fleeing lack of opportunity, those are the ones that are going to be most directly impacted plus a comedian wins round one of Ukraine's presidential election stories and more today here on the world. I'm Marco werman. And this is the world. Good Monday to you everybody. Glad you could make it here today. Just in case he stepped away from the news over the weekend. President Trump is threatening to close a US southern border this week. We'll keep a close for a long time. I'm not playing games. There was also this. I've ended payments to Guatemala to Honduras, Adele, Salvador, or no money goes there anymore. We were given them five hundred million dollars. We're giving him to Mendes aid, we stopped payment to Honduras, Guatemala, and to El Salvador, we were paying them tremendous amounts of money, and we're not paying them anymore because they haven't done a thing for us a decision to cut off aid to three Central American countries. It's punishment. The White House says for not stopping their citizens from leaving this countries in coming to the US, Shannon O'Neill's with the council on foreign relations in Washington how much aid did Guatemala Honduras, and El Salvador, get last. Year, shannon. So last year they were doesn't need to get somewhere in the range of five hundred and thirty million dollars that is a decline from a couple years ago when it was almost three quarters of a billion dollars seven hundred fifty million dollars. We have seen the Trump administration each year ask for less money for this aid to the Central American nations that we have seen a bipartisan support in the US congress to put money back there. So there is a back and forth between the administration, and the congress to support these countries that we've seen for the last couple of years culminating in the decision of Trump and the administration these last week. So that's over half a billion dollars where does that money go that money is split fairly evenly between the three Central American nations between Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, and it goes to all kinds of programs to address the root causes of migration from these countries. It goes to programs to counter drug trafficking. It goes to programs to strengthen the police to bring safety to the streets. It goes to all sorts of small programs to help economic growth to help seed microfinance for entrepreneurs for farmers. So it's a combination of all sorts of programs to really support Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, and society and make it better for the people. So that they can stay there and don't think about leaving their countries and heading to the United States. I mean, it sounds like where this money's headed is pretty comprehensive. What's been the impact of that aid because we're talking five hundred thirty million dollars. And that's actually a drop. I don't know is it working. Well, this is a lot less than we spend in many other places. And today we spend over twenty billion dollars on law enforcement at the border. So twenty billion at the border to stop these individuals coming up versus five hundred million back in their country to try to make the situation better. So they don't leave in the first place. So it's a small amount overall that we're spending. But I do think it is having affects on the ground. It is keeping hundreds thousands of. People still there because it gives them an opportunity and hope in the places that they are how do we know that it is keeping all these people on the ground. So when the US government spends millions of dollars on foreign assistance or another types of programs. They often do evaluations. They look to see what happens to the people that get involved with these programs. They looked to see what happens to the crops that they support. We also see a lot of these non profit organizations much of this money does not go to the governments of El Salvador, Honduras or quantum Allah. It goes to NGOs. It goes to nonprofits it goes to community organizations, not to the governments and those organizations report back what happens they look at the communities that they're serving and the movement of people. So we do have some evidence that win. These funds are invested a local level fewer people leave the communities where these funds go in where these programs are started up, then say the neighborhood next door that doesn't receive these types of investments. So are you saying that if Trump? Really wants to punish these governments in northern triangle. He won't be successful. Because so much of this money does not actually go to governments. It goes to smaller NGOs. He won't be taking money from the government says much he'll be taking more money from smaller NGOs, what these countries will have to deal with is in increased economic desperation, perhaps increasing level of violence because you won't have some of the programs that were helping tamper down these effects in society, the president of Honduras, one Orlando Hernandez met with the White House national security adviser John Bolton unless we can Hernandez said Honduras has a solid bilateral relationship with the US. What have you heard from the northern triangle countries is this news of aid getting cut off from Washington a shock to them? This is a great shock because just last week. These governments signed cooperation agreement of security cooperation agreement with the department of homeland security so just as there signing agreements to deepen the security ties between the United States and these nations the president decides to cut off all aid to these governments. And so far their reaction has been quite muted. It has been announced now, but it is. Unclear if the spigot of aid is actually immediately been turned off. I know Trump out something like this last October. What happened then when he threatened to cut off USA did he actually follow through so back last October? He didn't follow through he threatened on Twitter and talked about it, but never followed through in. There is a challenge here in that money that is both legislated by congress, but also appropriate by congress critters has approved the spending in between the balance of power in the United States. The executive branch needs to go spend that money now Trump may have some leeway in how that's money has spent, but he does need to go forward at least with the money. That's already been appropriated and make some sort of effort to spend it in these countries. So it is possible you're saying that he may be saying we're gonna cut off this money, but it might not actually happen. It's not the first time. We've seen a tweet go out and set policy that never actually becomes a reality. You've probably also seen this thing that Trump has been saying that Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador, take there. Criminals put them into caravans, and then send them to the US in many cases, they put their worst people into caravan. They're not going to put their best in they get rid of that problems. And they March up here. We don't really know where that idea comes from. It sounds conspiratorial do you know where that story comes from? That sounds very conspiratorial to me. And in fact, most of these caravans have nothing to do with the government's these are individuals. These families these are communities making decisions to leave their country for the circumstances that their life or the challenges they face, but the governments of these countries are not pushing their individuals to leave and their citizenship laws say that they can't stop these people from leaving just like an American you can't stop an American from traveling abroad. Will you can't stop Guatemalan Honduran from leaving their country as well? And so that is the dilemma that these governments face they're not pushing their citizens out actively they're not forming these caravans these are individual decisions made privately by by citizens of these countries, Shannon. O'neil with the council on foreign relations in Washington. Really? Appreciate your time. Thank you. My pleasure. Right now USA essential America is distributed to programs run by many different organizations. Catholic Relief Services is one of them. It runs a variety of programs that are supposed to help prevent migration from the region focusing on things like job training skill sharing and mental health resources. Kate Andrade works with one program in El Salvador funded by USA dollars. It's called Segundo's opportunity Dadis, which may in second chances it works with people within El Salvador's prison system prisons, and I'll Salvador are incredibly overcrowded there's at least three to four hundred percent overcrowding in prisons. There's currently fifty four thousand people in prison in all Salvador right now in a system that can handle what less than a third of that that has been since Agudo opportunity daddy's up programs started what did prison rehab looked like a Salvador prior to this program. I would say it was non existent absolutely non-existent. There's been a lot of attitude in the country, even in the. The Central America region that if you've committed a crime in this case a lot of people have only been arrested for crime that Hugh should be punished severely punished. So then people are just forgotten about because like really services program is mean second chances tell me about the people you work with most typically what have you programs done for them? So the last two years our programs have been working with inmates as well as with prison authorities and guards and helping them understand that there are other options for them, and that is helping them build their resilience, and creating a new identity for themselves K, I guess what? I really want to know what progress have you seen since this program has been around. And what does progress look like for you? Let me tell you the story of one woman an inmate a fight broke out in her cell block. And she was being egged on to join the fight and get. Involved in the brawl, and she was using the tools that we gave her of how to look at. What was in her control and not in her control, our thoughts feelings in action? She decided right than in there. I don't need this. She was called all sorts of names. But in the end when the fight was broken up. She was not taken off in handcuffs to solitary confinement. So she was able to make that change. So it's pretty powerful stuff that we're seeing an individual lives in how they're being able to change others. I mean, that's remarkable. And it seems going to an exceptional example since what you're proposing. Then get spread by word of mouth inside the facilities out of the prison. What would happen K to all of the work? You've just described with the budget cuts US's said it's going to do. So when I heard about this this weekend. My first thought went to our second chances program, we have a lot of money from the US government for programming throughout Central America in. Use work, but then in particular with this programming we're still trying to figure out like so many other organizations of what the implications could be core. Wet funding might be impacted funding that already been approved an allocated or not. But there are virtually no organizations that are allowed into the prisons and have built the trust in working with prison. Authorities to do this. And if we can't work on making these kind of changes in that is cut off. I'm just very concerned about am very concerned about the work that has been forged over the last two years and building trust with the Salvadoran prison. Authorities and being able to be there for them to support them in building out this rehabilitation program. Will all the aspects of Segunda or paternity daddy's programming still be able to function or are there? Other funders that you can rely on US government support disappears. C R S has been using some of our own funding to be able to supplement what the US government is supporting us on. But it's not enough. And we have no other funding sources right now for that particular project who do you think will be impacted the most by these cuts, the Central American people, the very young people families that are fleeing violence fleeing lack of opportunity. Those are the ones that are going to be most directly impacted I think rather than stemming migration. This will only lead to more migration. Indrawati is a youth workforce development adviser for Latin America in El Salvador with Catholic release ervices. Thanks very much Kay. Thank you. This podcast is brought to you by Goldman Sachs for insights from leading thinkers on the state of markets industries and the global economy listen to our podcast exchanges at Goldman Sachs. You'll hear discussions on a variety of topics with far reaching implications from how venture capital is fueling innovation to the global shift toward renewable energy to the economic impacts of President Trump's legislative agenda and more that's exchanges at Goldman Sachs. Available on I tunes Spotify, Stitcher, soundcloud and Google play and at G, S dot com slash podcast. I'm Marco werman. You're with the world a comedian with no political experience as one the first round of presidential elections in Ukraine. Vladimir's Alinsky will now face the second place finisher incumbent Ukrainian, president, petro, Porsche Anco, the runoff is in a few weeks reporter, Veronica Melkote zero is in Kiev, Ukraine. I asked her about the inevitable comparison that some people have made between Alinsky the comedian candidate. And former reality TV star, Donald Trump. It's more what the analysts in west do our political analysts compare him to Ronald Reagan was mostly because maybe hands key is not so. How to describe Trump not to your friend your president? It's Dolinsky has more positive image than Trump is less notorious. He's like more than the now. Funny guy talented actor. So what does it take to become president of Ukraine you need to get a financial support of one of our top all the guards. And also you need to get the media support. And all the major TV channels in Ukraine, they belong to the autographs that is why rumor has it that without the support of an only got or maybe several oligarchies. It is almost impossible to be elected president in Ukraine would Ukrainian say that's fair. That's democratic if you need that rich oligarch support and media support. No, it's not democratic, but we didn't have another option peop-. People are still loading and all the electoral watchdogs. They say our elections were fair and democratic but still people do not read the problems of the candidates. They just trying to orient of whom to vote for by watching only Gladys TV stations by maybe I don't know maybe taking some money for voting because some of the candidates were caught trying to buy Wolters for about thirty seven dollars. Veronica, what's at stake for this election for Russia and for countries in the west the stakes are huge after this elections. Ukraine might either turn back to Russia or keep its best to the west wild prototype co positions himself as the only person who can save Ukraine from Russia. Is he Lansky says that he's ready to negotiate with Russia and Russian officials. They ready said that they are ready. To negotiate with anyone, but but ashamed coil if but would be reelected. They say they won't concede this election to be legitimate. And there will be nothing to talk with your crying are Ukrainians ready for some negotiation with Russia under Zilinskiene. I mean, what how do you personally feel about that? I personally think that it depends from the narrative of the negotiations because Russia is trying to dictate if Ukraine will step back and lead Russia to have Crimea, for example, or to have the parts of them boss it occupied into southbound fourteen. This will mean that we will slowly return back under the Russian influence, and this will mean that we won't have the right for democratic elections or maybe democratic looking like elections because I'm like other countries of the costs of your block, Ukraine still has this option too. Choose its leader. We're all very proud of it. And if we will return to Russia, we'll become like, a satellite like Belarus or Kazakhstan, and we don't want that journalists Veronica milk oh zero in Kiev. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you Israel has the salty body of water in the world. Now, it has the longest salt cave. Researchers near the Dead Sea say they've mapped six miles of the mall ham cave there. I most frump kickin is a geologist at Hebrew University. Tell us what it feels like to be inside, the salty chambers of his cave, whether the quite beautiful sometimes transparent, sometimes very white. It's kind of very very exciting. Can you actually taste the salt when you enter the cave? Yes. You can you can easily if it is a stomach tied to stalagmite, it is pure soul. Like in the kitchen in different is just the wall of the cave. It's less peel. I've seen some of the pictures. It's really I mean, it is gorgeous. I mean, it looks like almost diamonds hang from the ceiling and the walls professor from going to somebody who's studied this cave for a long time. We're you surprised to realize how big it is. Yes. I did not know that is so long we sold. It is few kilometers long Molden six, but we didn't know that it is a really more than ten kilometers long. This depends on the influenza of the caves who Selvi like if they manage to Kroll into the most tight places, and if they hang with the ropes in shafts in may kind of pendulum to cite passages, high levels of the cave, then they'll able to map all the passages even those which are less easy to reach. I know geology a lot of history inside rock and earth. What did you learn about history from what you've seen in this cave? The kid is acting like a time capsule generally for many things in this case it's much about climate history of displace in the country because of Salty's so is dissolved. And in addition, we head a lot of faces of wood being swept into the cave forms the surface of the mountain in these allowed us to date the cave passages by radiocarbon. So we have eggs act climatic history of the region full for the last eight thousand years, I don't know if you're aware, but some people say there are health benefits to breathing the air of natural or man-made salt caves, I you've been in the all cave the number of times, what do you make of this? I agree after I visit the cave. I feel better. If I came with some kind of let's say high temperatures. So I feel better when I come out. I do believe it works. Do you think the Molem cave is going to have to be protected now that it's been publicized? Yes. I think so it should be it should be protected because otherwise we should not have such beautiful things anywhere in the world. If it's not protected. We don't have such features in in most other places like in North America. I believe he's milta- single salt cave. Have you ever been into a cave in North America? That comes even close to kind of how spectacular the Molem gave his. Oh, yes. The most spectacular cave in the world better bets in North America. That's Lucia cave. But it is in limestone. It's not insult, and whereas that cave this cave is in New Mexico, but it's close to the public. It's difficult to visit it all the beautiful things are close to the public. Yes. Most of them. I most from Kim geologists at Hebrew University. Thank you very much. Thank you. I'm Marco werman looking at satellite photos of North Korean weapons sites is not an exact science an image might seem to show preparations for a missile launch. But it could also be for trucks really closely care by together. So with this level of resolution, we we just can't be certain peering into North Korea from above that still ahead here on the world. US army general Robert Abrams was on Capitol Hill a few days ago. He's a commander of US and allied forces in Korea and listen to his answer to the following question. Texas, congressman MAC Thornberry wanted to know if the North Koreans are making progress on denuclearization. Well, you know, they have not tested, but in the production of nuclear weapons and material and missiles has there been a change, sir? We their activity that we've observed is inconsistent with denuclearization inconsistent with denuclearization. In other words, the north is not showing signs that it's willing to give up its nuclear weapons. How does the top brass at the Pentagon? No that satellite imagery for one photos taken from far above North Korean weapons sites. Some of these pictures are actually for sale to the public the world's Matthew bell went to visit one group in Washington that uses satellite imagery to figure out what's happening inside North Korea. Thirty eight north runs a website about North Korean related security issues. The number thirty eight refers to the thirty eighth parallel on the map that cuts across the middle of the Korean peninsula. Also known as the DMZ demilitarized zone. It's what divides North Korea from South Korea. Jenny town is managing editor of thirty eight north her interest in the country goes back to her college days in the mid nineteen ninety s I spent a year in South Korea studying at the women's university in Seoul. I remember there were reports coming out in the news that there was this famine starting in North Korea. And no one in South Korea believed, it people in the south grew up thinking of the North Koreans as their enemies. So the immediately assumed the news about a famine was fake town says part of a scheme to extract something from the outside world that was troubling to her and it sparked a long-term quest to learn more about North Korea years. Later town teamed up with a former Clinton administration official to start thirty eight north the problem with North Korea. She says is that there's so much interest. But not a lot of reliable information about the place, eventually analyzing satellite. Images of the country's military sites became a central part of their work. We use all commercials at night image. A the major companies we by phone high resolution imagery is digital globe. And Airbus digital globe is an American company Airbus's, a French company will use Google earth sometimes for kind of a historical reference point. But the images from Google earth aren't updated frequently enough, and they're not high resolution enough to figure out what's happening on the ground. Every morning towns team at thirty eight north looks over satellite pictures of North Korean missile and nuclear sites for signs of activity. They have former military and intelligence analysts working with them people. Who know all about the? North's weapon systems. The US government is thought to have much more detailed images of North Korea. But the commercial ones show about eighteen inches per pixel right now, we're looking at an image where it looks like it could be military vehicles. It looks like it could be tell a transporter erector launcher that that you transport like a missile system on. But it could also be for trucks really closely caravan together so with this level of resolution, we we just can't be certain. And so we always have at least two or three analysts look at it weigh in on it town says this is not an exact science seeing that some trucks have moved around a missile side. For example, might indicate that the North Koreans are getting ready to launch an actual missile or they might simply be trying to send a signal to whoever is watching Joel whip says this is important to keep in mind. He's the Clinton administration official. Founded thirty eight north he's met with North Korean diplomats many times over the years, and they've told him that they also follow the sites reporting. They know when the satellites fly over these installations, so they can time activities in terms of knowing that people will be taking pictures of them, and they can use that in various ways to send signals to confuse people. So, you know, I think they've integrated into their thinking, even knowing that isn't enough satellite imagery might be useful. But it almost never paints a complete picture of what's really happening. Bob. Carlin has spent a lifetime paying attention to North Korea. He's a former intelligence officer at the State Department and CIA analyst he says in an isolated country like North Korea. You still need to have context when the first time I went to North Korea. I had been following North Korea for a couple of decades. I guess, and I knew the place from the satellite imagery that I always viewed it from however thousands of feet above the earth. So when I first got there, and I was on the ground. It's completely different. It's three dimensional human society. And you don't get that feeling from the air to don't understand the country. Analysts are watching closely. Now after the second Trump Kim summit ended in failure. When movement was detected by satellite photos at one North Korean launch site a few weeks ago experts disagreed about what it meant a space launch perhaps a missile test. So far nothing has been launched from that site. If it does happen. A Trump administration officials said it would be quote inconsistent with the commitments the North Koreans have made for the world. Matthew, bell, Washington. We were talking earlier on the show about election results from the weekends vote in Ukraine, but it wasn't the only country holding elections as past weekend. There were also local elections in Turkey and the results seem to have taken the country's president by surprise repti- wants party. The ruling Justice and Development Party. The K P has lost control of the capital uncle the opposition is also leading in the mayor's race in Istanbul. According to preliminary election results. The BBC's Mark Lowen is in is time bowl. He says it's a major setback for Turkey's president air to on. This was his backyard. It was the city. He ran as mad before he was propelled to power, prime minister in two thousand and three and to lose this bull Ankara and other big cities is a significant blow to the president. Now. I have to say that the governing party has not yet concede it here. In stumble or else web waiting for the official results to come within three days. But it seems like really prison add ones conservative pious support base has turned against him. Amidst a worsening economic crisis, and that was part of the AKP alleges invalid votes and irregularities in most of the twelve thousand plus polling stations in Ankara does that mean, everyone will be contesting the results there. How's that going to play out? They'll be challenging the results, but it's very unlikely to be reversed because the margin of victory in Ankara is pretty large in Istanbul. Oh, it's just a whisker. But if they're all irregular invalid ballots. They are not all going to go to the governing policy to overturn the results. But it seems increasingly likely that this is now a done deal. And in fact, the candidate for the opposition economy memorial has actually changed his Twitter handle to say Istanbul mass. So as far as that can send it's either Mark these are local elections in Turkey, not national ones. Why are they so significant and what does it actually mean for air to one himself? This is going to because they had become ineffective a referendum on president add one he made this intensely personal. He he was at about one hundred rallies, and this is a country ninety percent of the meteorites progovernment. So it's pretty astonishing that they have suffered such a big blow. It is very significant because local elections away you build patronage and support at grassroots level to then go onto a national support base and re. Really, this is I think a change in what president at the image present. I'd want his head of the lost sixteen years or someone who was invincible seemingly towering over a seemingly fractured opposition. Will they have managed to coalesce around single candidates, and they have shown that Turkey's most powerful and polarizing president for decades can indeed be beaten, what has president everyone said about the results himself anything he spoke to supporters last night in a typical balcony speeches. He calls it where he stands party headquarters towering over his his adoring fans. And I have to say there was none of the kind of typically combative triumphalism that we usually hear from him. He threatened during the campaign to deal, an an autumn and slap to his opponents. He played in several election rallies. The video of the New Zealand terror attack from a couple of weeks ago to galvanize his Muslim support base. So there was none of that kind of tone. Was much more chastened. It was much more kind of real. He said, we if their shortcomings, we will address them one less thing, Mark mutt. Of the media's he say state controlled there. So they're telling their side of the story when you scan independent media and Turkey and several media platforms. What is the public analysis of what happened in this election as ever in this country is just so incredibly polarized so much? So that actually this morning in Istanbul. Huge billboards had been erected saying tissue Q Istanbul. Thank you stumble. A victory billboards by the government because they were so sure victory and they wanted to sort of almost impose that as a complaint against the opposition. Then when it became clear hadn't won those bills would take down. But just looking at. Let's billboards this morning. It was really was like a parallel reality hit. And never the twain shall meet as they say, you call it so hard to debate with one from one side to the other the cleavage runs so deep and the front pages of all pro government media. Congratulate imprison Adwan on yet another historic victory. No, mention of the fact that it looks like they've lost major major cities information here is weaponized. And it's it's kinda used by as a tool by both sides. And that is the state of of modern Turkey, we will wait for the final vote count. But this seems really big the BBC's Mark Lowen in Istanbul. Thanks, very, much pleasure. Thank you. Even today. There are some sites and events from the holocaust that are little known in Belarus, a story of the Jewish ghetto in the city of Brest and the mass killings are under Nazi occupation are not widely understood even in Belarus itself. Now, a vast grave has been discovered there during construction work and the city's Jewish community wants a har- is of the early nineteen forties to be commemorated properly for the first time. My BBC colleague Sarah Raynsford reports from Brest in Belarus close to the polish border. Slowly, gently even a young soldier removes the two decades from human bones lodged in the ground in front of him. He's another thing. A little known chump of the holocaust in western been a Reuss. She's a women and children here. He's hells me. Placing a teenagers skull in plastic crates. The most grave was discovered. Join construction work on the block of flats and Dimitri says his team have already recovered the remains of more than a thousand people killed because they were Jews. No one. There are clear bullet holes in the skulls. People will shut in the back of the head and all the bodies will line phase down the nuts dug ditches and people were shot then fell shut then. So. Lupo fool will or to almost half. The population of breast would use several thousand were executed almost immediately after the German invasion. The rest were herded into a ghetto behind barbed wire until the older came to wipe them out at the. His kitchen table Mikhail Kaplon shows me photographs of some of his family who killed superman. They'll never know exactly where they were buried Mikhail's. Parents only survived because they were out of town when the wool began job open. What was then you'll a butchered? A butchered. My father never spoke about what happened it caused him so much pain. But my grandmother cried all the time remembering leeza lease the Chico when they return the city was half empty all their friends had gone. And yet at the time Kyle says, am I got wasn't mock. With everyone knew what had happened, but officially no-one spoke of it. The Germans destroyed us deliberately the Soviets. Just stayed silent about us. Even now, the only holocaust museum in breast is underground within your news basement room, curated and run by the small Jewish community that settled here after the war, but the events that catalogs a Ramenskoye was news was not religious fame shows me register at the ghetto kept by the Germans in one thousand nine hundred forty two one day in October it records almost eighteen thousand Jews the next day that number has been scrunched out who's it? If the is trying to recover that's hidden history. But in Belarus, he says, the fate of the Jews was always merged with the country's overall catastrophic losses unto Nazi-occupied action was Niger serious video ditching Lewis Steadman, you know, in Soviet times. It was to say you Jewish and you didn't talk about the holocaust wall memorials here. But. Indicated to Soviet citizens. But that was very -fensive because the Jews not killed. I think the Nazis there were killed because they were Jews. By phone that history is being uncovered now as work at the gravesite drops up for another evening. The soldiers got a giant plastic socks. Tell me it's what they've collected here in just a couple of days, and they expect to enough a lot more. Egyptian writer allow Alice Wani made his Mark with his bestselling novel, the Cubie and building. But now he's gained attention for something else. Egypt's military is suing him for insulting the country's president allow Alex wanna is at his home in New York City. Why are you getting sued? What did you write that anger? Argies in Cairo won the have been angry with me for five years. You know, the first week listed CeCe became the president. I was banned from any TV appearance. And then I was banned from writing in the Egyptian newspapers. So it's smoked new. But this is a kind of its collation they say that I insulted the presidency and insulted the state is the Jewish these kind of accusations. Don't mean anything legally, but they are used over and over to punish anybody who could dislodge the president. Five years. Now, you've had hassles with the government of CC in Cairo a five years takes us back to the military coup in twenty thirteen I wanna go back before that your own background. You grew up in Egypt in the seventies. Your dad was a writer, and you became a dentist and part time right until your book, the Yaqouby and building took off in two thousand two became an international bestseller reminders with that book was about and how it transformed your life. If it was if it'll be slated to seventy seven leg wages Leo's of copays sold. So your could be anything is still exist. Don't don't Ed by characters out of the tenants side. The building a real matrix kind of colorful bag of characters absolutely deflected all of the associated political problems by that thought, but it basically. I mean, I imagine like the characters in the U Koby and building could have been some of the people in the streets of Cairo during the Arab spring protests that you took part in. I know a lot of people hope those protests would be a turning point for Egypt. What were your hopes when you were demonstrating? Of course, we will to the democratic secret out of stated we fought for the unfortauntely Egypt has been quoted between this is rope Binion between two fascist groups have been that the Benintendi and the snippets and they have made many times in alliance. I guess that if unusual against the democratic force, but I have been against a because I'm defending the democracy thrive. Been against that. He's EIB for years and years for decades. So I have been I guess Mubarak. Then I guess the council then against the Muslim Muslims. I guess. The CeCe diamond you that the he is the wolves as fought as you memorize may be concerned. So after CC came to power in two thousand thirteen did you continue to write critically of the government? Yes. For example that election through which Cici arrive to ballot. What not fifty elections would know fit elections. So I was bent. I was bed. How did you end up in New York the American universities? They always have it blaze for a writer in residence and a head of Dacians longtime ago, but I didn't find any reason to leave Egypt. So after being banned from everything, you know, I get accepted that invitation. But everytime, I go back to Egypt. They give me very auditory. But that for every time that they end for two hours. It was terrible. But I insisted. To get back like Dorothy months, then back to a medic. I'm curious if you were back home, do you think you would be in jail instead of being sued? Well, I the problem is is that that is even though was water. So that never than than ever, you know, that she has everything in Egypt. You know, as the ought to be has police as that own the media order TV Shannon's newspapers on the through despite all this. I find it interesting. I believe that the generals who are ruling don't feed secure because they never expected that it will Uson then that should have. So they act as a wounded dog the wounded tiger is very dangerous and wounded dog at his at that can give it about. And I believe that this is the way that is acting Melanesia. So what's next for this lawsuit? I mean what you have to do. Now in matter admitted that he case it usually is totally decided by the president. Even if I go. If I said, my loyal. It's totally useless to participate in something like this. Because by the end, the president will decide the sentence you see my point. Yeah. Allah, allah. Tony the best-selling. Egyptian novelist is being sued by the Egypt's in government. He's been speaking with us from his current home in New York City. Thank you very much. It was a great honor. Thank you, a is what? Finally, this April first in this era of fake news. It's a challenge to keep things real sometimes and on April Fools day the line between fake and fund is even more maddening. So here's a roundup of stories that could be true or not prepared by our producer, Patty Daniels. Hey marcal. Okay. So we have kept you in a game show isolation booth to prepare this, April Fool's day news quiz. Are you ready yet? Well, last time I looked at Twitter was three hours ago. So I am so out of it. Okay. We're gonna start with Google which has taken artificial intelligence into the greenhouse to develop Google tulip advancing the idea that plants respond to stimuli. Google tulip can translate the impulses of flowers into dozens of human languages. That's false. Okay. Google talk to my tulip. What do you want? Please. All right. So actually that is false. Of course. Thank you very much too high production value. There is no Google tulip. Coming up, we go to France police canine units in France are getting competition from rabbits. Don't do dictate on can affect us. The French police officer telling us that rabbits have excellent agility hearing and smell thirty times better than dogs are rabbits being recruited into the French police force where you would. I don't know where you would have gotten tape, otherwise unless a French themselves are doing their on deverell. So I'm going to say that's true. It is false that Jerry Jones go for it. All right, okay. Last one up a singing nun, we'll return to talion television. In yet, another talent contest sister. Christina scoop Chea lives in a convent in Milan, but she became famous if you years ago on Italy's version of the voice, and since then she did a video remake of Madonna's like a virgin true, or April Fools. I wanted to be true. I'm going to say, it's true. Let's listen. Never heard of this love. I thought this was like super funny and kitschy, and then I watched the video, and it's actually really beautiful in moody. Thank you very much sister, Christina. And thank you, Patty. Marco, congratulations. And as always thank you for paying attention to the real news of the world. But you for stumping this jump Patty per, she ended, April Fools. This is a rap, and that's no kidding manana Bill Harris studios. I'm Marco werman. We're back with you tomorrow. This game.

president US President Trump Marco werman Ukraine El Salvador North Korea Egypt Shannon O'Neill Twitter Washington Honduras Guatemala New York City BBC congress Turkey Istanbul Google
Schiff: Why wouldn't GOP senators want to hear from John Bolton?

MSNBC Rachel Maddow (audio)

45:50 min | 9 months ago

Schiff: Why wouldn't GOP senators want to hear from John Bolton?

"The show we had nine stern on. MSNBC in nineteen sixty. Eight when Richard Nixon ran against Democratic incumbent Vice President Hubert Humphrey and beat him and the Nixon. Agnew ticket ascended to the White House for the first time Nixon's campaign chairman in that election was a a man named John Mitchell. A somewhat unusual move after he was sworn in as the thirty-seven president of the United States Nixon then named and his campaign manager John Mitchell to be the next attorney general. That's not a natural evolution in terms of political jobs going from campaign chairman to Attorney General But Nixon went ahead and did it and install John Mitchell at the top of the US Justice Department which turned out to be one of Nixon's many many disastrous early decisions as president. John Mitchell of course would end up being up to his neck in the Watergate scandal specifically in the cover up as well alternate John. Mitchell would go down in history as the first. US Attorney General to ever be convicted of multiple felonies and imprisoned but at the height of the Watergate scandal at the height of the inquiry. The Nixon administration must've thought that John Nixon Mitchell actually gave them kind of ace in the hole when it came to the Watergate investigation because before he ever learned his service Nixon's attorney general before he ever served as Nixon's campaign chairman. John Mitchell had become friends with this this man this is Howard Baker Republicans we have Howard Baker Howard Baker Republican senator from Tennessee And when the Senate formed it's special committee to investigate the Watergate Scandal Howard Baker was appointed to be the top Republican on that committee. How how handy right now handy for the Nixon administration that the top Republican on the committee investigating Watergate? Was this close friend of John Mitchell. Right campaign chairman during sixty eight had been a linchpin in the whole scheme and then the whole cover up was then serving attorney general right I mean having Howard Baker be the top Republican on the Watergate inquiry. It wasn't quite like having a guy on the inside for the Nixon administration but it was clubs and worse is that Howard Baker at the outset really considered himself to be the Nixon administration's guy there inside guy in in the Senate Watergate Investigation Senator Baker sort of considered himself to be their ace in the hole he was delighted to be named the committee specific specifically because he thought he could help Nixon out. He later admitted that he fully intended at the outset to use his prime position on that committee basically to get Nixon cleared because coming into it Howard Baker thought the whole Watergate scandal was just a scam. It was just put up job by the Democrats. He was glad to be there. As part of the investigation is is the top Republican in the investigation. Basically so he could make sure that Nixon's interests were taken care of against those dastardly Democrats and even worse than that got Senator Howard Baker let Nixon know that it's interesting. It was never recorded in the White House. Diaries and schedules and notes about who. The president was meeting with that day. But on February twenty second nineteen seventy-three Howard Baker secretly went up to the White House and took a meeting with Richard Nixon specifically tell him that the president should be reassured that he had an ally on the Senate Watergate Committee that the top Republican on that committee comedy He Howard Baker was essentially team Nixon and Nixon of course delighted to hear that and there is a tape of the interaction. It's one of those Nixon White House tapes kind of two garbled to hear. This is the kind of sounds like a coin operated version of space invaders. Here's being played inside a washing machine. But it is Senator Howard Baker and Richard Nixon on that tape Nixon at one point on the tape can be heard saying and if it does get rough you may have to turn and get away from this. You were going to have to get away from this. That's President Nixon essentially coaching the top Republican on the Senate Watergate incre- agree Howard Baker that Baker's going to have to figure out a way to shut the Watergate investigation down if it goes in a way that's to adverse to Nixon at any point all right so this a secret meeting at the White House Top Republican on the committee and the President WHO's under investigation. That's bad right in terms of this idea that this was going to be an impartial openminded. You just seeking the facts inquiry. Mayors the top Republican on that inquiry later admitting that he considered himself to be secretly in cahoots with President Nixon from the outset and he was intending to steer the thing as much as he could to protect Nixon's interests except as Howard Baker would later. Explain things veered off for him in an unexpected direction. Notwithstanding that initial the attitude that he had toward the Watergate scandal the initial way that he saw his own role as a Nixon loyalist Republican on that committee. Things didn't work out that way because at that secret meeting at the White House were Howard. Baker went up there to tell president. Nixon hey listen. Don't put this this on your schedule. Let's just meet off the books I just want to assure you. I'm GonNa Take Care of you on this committee when he went up to the White House to go meet with Nixon in that meeting something happened. That changed Howard Bakers on course when it came to Watergate. Something happened about meeting that. In fact change the course of American history. Watch this When the Committee was constituted I felt well? You know it's not gonna about device just just democratic effort to embarrass him but the election's over and That's what I thought and indeed I called President Action on the telephone. I said Mr Mr President. I am the senior Republican on this committee and I would like to come down and talk to you and he said of course. I did the next day I remember and he was in his his office. said the old eob the old executive office building across the street from the Oval Office Edward. I walked in. I said something like Mr President. macedon remember this comedian needed. I want to protect your rights. I'm your friend and I'm the senior pub. He said I thank you and we chatted for a few minutes and then I said this I guess yes. It was important point in my life because then I said That I do hope my friend John Mitchell have any problems and mix. It said well Howard he may at a light bulb went off in my head and I decided you know Baker. You don't know as much about the situation as you think queued. And you'd better put your head down and charge into this thing and let the facts fall where they will. That was not offered. When you find a single moment hold a defining moment when you make a decision of that magnitude but that was such a moment and I decided that notwithstanding personal friendship with Dixon that he had campaigned for me and my racist for the Senate that he was a Republican president? I was a cedar notwithstanding all of that this was a very serious matter that I know much about it. I'd better better find out and that's what I decided to do that. And I hope it does not something to me to say that but I think we did a pretty good job with it. Hope it doesn't sound vain one of me to say it but I think we did a pretty good job with it. We all know how it worked out. Terms of that investigation right that was Senator Howard Baker speaking more than thirty years after after Watergate in an interview looking back at two thousand five talking about that defining moment when he realized that his preconceptions about Watergate his hope and his expectation his old friend John Mitchell wasn't implicated in this scandal his sort of partisan self-assurance about the president's innocence and the scandal handle being some democratic invention. This moment when he realized you know what. Maybe I'm wrong about all of that. And so he decided to drop his preconceived Steve Notions and his plans to use the inquiry to try to protect the president and instead he decided in that moment he said like a light bulb went off. He decided in that moment that he would actually be humble about it that he would stop assuming that he knew everything there was to know about this and instead he would try to find out the facts and follow them wherever they would leave. The central question at this point is simply put. What did the president know? No and when did he know it. That's the same Howard. Baker has famous crystallizing question from the Watergate inquiry. What did the president know? And when did he know it you know. Even at the time he asked that in the Watergate trial a Watergate investigation Howard Baker didn't know the answer. He didn't know at that point when he asked that question. What Nixon when Nixon knew it at that point in the investigation Howard Baker was still hoping that Nixon would be shown to be out of loop that the facts would prove that Nixon was unaware of what was going on in this scandal but in fact he agreed to follow the evidence as it came to light and Howard Baker the rest of the Watergate Committee Republicans and Democrats would go on to discover that there was important new evidence? They needed to look at that. Shed light on the president's direct involvement involvement in the scandal including the tapes that were made at the White House and despite all of his preconceptions which he later copped to his preconceptions is prejudices his intentions coming into it. Howard Baker followed the facts and ended up joining with the Democratic leadership? The Watergate Committee to demand that the White House tapes be handed over and in so doing the Watergate inquiry produced evidence of the president's guilt beyond any reasonable doubt and that is why Richard Nixon resigned the presidency rather than be forced out of office by a certain bipartisan vote in the US Senate Baker. You don't know as much about the situation issue as you think you do and you better just put your head in charge into this saying. Let the facts fall where they will the lesson of Howard Baker from the Watergate scandal. I think is is often told as a story about sort of nonpartisan country first bravery but but whenever Baker himself described it though when he looked back on it decades after the fact he told the moral of the story in a way that was. I guess it was a little more subtle than that. I mean the way Howard Baker described himself was that there was this crucial inflection. Point in Watergate. At this moment when he decided he'd better take this inquiry seriously he better follow the facts that was when he realized he didn't actually know the whole story he couldn't confidently predict what was going to happen next. Things might not end up the way he and all his colleagues had predicted they would go. That was the inflection moment when he realized it was important to to be real about whether or not he really knew what was going on when he realized it was important to be humble about the fact that they were parts of this he did not know that was the the inflection point that when the light bulb went off impeachments of US presidents are not like UNICORNS. That's right they're real but they are rare and odd enough that we really don't know what's likely to happen next in anyone impeachment it was definitely ensure with Watergate. It was true with Clinton and impeachment. I think we know enough of the history to say. It was probably true with the Johnson one as well but it is certainly true with this one. I mean tonight. The Wall Street Journal. I report that the Republican leader in the Senate Mitch. McConnell says he doesn't have enough votes to block the introduction of witness testimony and other evidence from the President Senate impeachment trial they need fifty one republicans to vote no to vote against hearing witnesses and introducing New Evidence Wall Street Journal. Was I report. That they don't have those fifty one votes since then that reporting has been matched by the Washington Post and the New York Times all of these reports are citing McConnell's comments to his fellow Republican senators a closed-door meeting. That happened today. After the president's defense counsel dramatically cut short their presentation the president side of the case they ended their arguments to the Senate with more than fourteen of their allotted twenty four hours left unused at but now getting these these reports about whether or not McConnell has the votes or not about introducing witnesses and bringing in new evidence. These reports are source is to multiple sources describing something that happened behind closed doors. NBC News has sort of contrary reporting tonight suggesting that while Senator McConnell doesn't have those votes now Republicans think they might yet get them when it comes time to actually cast and count them a few days from now in the Senate. I don't know I I mean ultimately we'll see if we've learned one thing from the American history of impeaching president it is that humility is an order predicting next steps when predicting ultimate outcomes comes maybe the votes in the Senate will be there to hear from witnesses. Maybe they will not be there. We will know when they actually vote terms of predicting stuff from here here on out. I would be cautious stuff. Happens things change twists developing plots in that same spirit. I would would like to offer a piece of context for the debate over the impeachment scandal. What the Senate is likely to do next like to offer a little piece of news context about that debate that you might not be expecting to hear from me? which is that if you take an honest look at the record here there is a fairly large contingent of Republicans in both the House? And the Senate who I think it's fair to say have behaved pretty aerobically on the issue at the heart of this impeachment scandal. Maybe roic isn't exactly the the right word. Maybe they were just being diligent. Sort of you know patriotically doing their job of a little bit of bravery but there is an important piece of how we got here to this impeachment of the president to this crux and the debate right now as to whether or not we're gonNA hear from witnesses. There is a through line in the recent history of how we got here that is being ignored by everybody on both sides because it doesn't fit the narrative of Republicans versus Democrats and some sort of evenly divided had mirror image split on the politics here and the disagreement on the basic facts. But I honestly think this is a very important piece of recent history in terms so how we got here and so take it from me Rachel motto here on MSNBC. I hereby want to praise some famous Republicans more than a handful of them for having earnestly pursued the defense of America's relationship with Ukraine and are supposedly unshakable support for them as a matter of US US foreign policy and having done so in ways that required them to confront the president and confront the trump White House in very recent days. And I don't know why this history is being written out of the way we got here but I think we should stop doing that. I think this is worth paying attention to the night that the Senate impeachment trial L. of president trump opened a freedom of Information Act lawsuit resulted in the publication of these documents from the White House from the Office of Management and budget inside the White House. American oversight site had filed a lawsuit to force the release of these documents from Owen. Be their documents having to do with Ukraine over the time period. That's implicated in the president's impeachment scandal and most so these documents were ridiculously redacted by the White House but we did in these documents again. That came out the night of the first the first night of the impeachment scandal. Right we did get to see the full text of a whole bunch of Republicans in the House and the Senate contacting the White House contacting uh-huh mb in August twenty nineteen to try to find out why at the trump White House was holding up aid to Ukraine. Why is this being held up? These multiple Republican members of the House and members of the Senate contacted the trump White House to ask about the hold up on the aid and to demand that the whole be released and that the aid aide make its way to Kiev for example. There's this one to Michael Duffy O. M. B. From Staffer Republican Senator Rob Portman Office dated Friday August August. Twenty fourth one fifty six PM. Michael I work on National Security Affairs for Senator Rob Portman as you may know. He's worked closely with the Armed Services Committee on Securing Security Assistance and is very interested in ensuring Ukraine has the military capabilities it needs to defend itself against Russian aggression. I understand that Owen. B is placed a hold on funding funding for Ukraine which could impact pending equipment contracts. If you're the right point of contact I'd appreciate it if you could lay out for me. The reason behind the holes and what the process is for getting the funding released. If you're not the right point of contact please put me in contact with the right office in a related email. Chain a few hours before that blunt letter of concern from Rob Portman get sent up the chain at O. M. B. We find that Republican Senator James inhofe has sent a similar inquiry quote. Thanks Jason flagging for another staffer. As well. We got a similar inquiry from senator. INHOFE team really Senator Portman and senator inhofe sending similar inquiries. He's and then there's this August twenty second three forty two PM. Chief of staff to Republican Congressman Mac. Thornberry's sends a similar inquiry. Good afternoon. Hope you're doing well. I heard today that Colombia's put a pause on expending funds authorized for Ukrainian security assistance. Is there somebody there that I could talk to to understand why. Signed Chief of staff to Republican congressman. Mac thornberry here's another one and this was not just in an email or a call. This one's on proper congressional office letterhead from Republican Republican congressman. Paul Cook of California set to Mick Mulvaney and his position as White House Chief of staff quote. We strongly urge you to direct that. All Ukraine's security assistance funding proceed to execution as planned. This funding is critical to support the Ukrainian armed forces against Russian aggression actions by O. M.. Be That delay. Implementation of this critical funding could undermine our clear national security interests. Slowing implementation of resources appropriated for the safety and security of Ukraine could undermine remind our relationship with Ukraine and our regional strategy. Again these these documents this evidence of Republicans Republicans in the House. Republicans in the Senate expressing earnest concern. About why the White House was screwing this up and hurting our own national security by doing this. These these documents were only made public the first day of the Senate impeachment trial but it exposes these Republicans for having done the right thing here and having been willing to stand up to the trump White House to do it but this is all their communications to the trump White House to go to the White House Chief of staff. Hey what's going on here. This isn't right right. I need to get an explanation here. This isn't right. This is bad for the United States. I need an explanation. But it's not just those Republicans within those with a within those few days in August from which we have those documents within a couple of weeks of those letters to here's more here's Republican Senator Rob Portman in an Republican Senator Ron Johnson this September third writing with a bunch of Democratic Senate colleagues to Mick Mulvaney quote we write to express our deep concerns earns of reports that the administration is considering not obligating Ukraine Security Assistance Ukraine Security Initiative funds for twenty nineteen quote. We have worked hard in a bipartisan manner. Manner in the Senate to provide funding for a Security Assistance Program for Ukraine that is effective and transparent and fiscally responsible. We strongly urge you to direct the Defense Department to to obligate these funds immediately two days after that September fifth. Another Republican congressman. Mike McCall top Republican on the Foreign Affairs Committee rights to Mick Mulvaney and to the head of O. M. B. Russell. He says quote we write to express our deep concern in support of Ukraine's defense regarding reports. That is holding up significant security assistance funding and support of Ukraine's defense. We urge you to make these funds available for obligation without delay. There's I mean I mean there's all these Republicans who have been acting somewhat heroically here right who've been getting up on their hind legs and demanding answers. There's from trump trump White House questioning the trump administration demanding that Ukraine needs to get eight standing up for how important that is how crucial it is as a matter of US keeping keeping our word. What a central matter it is for? US National Security ultimately when the aid was finally released in mid September. You might I remember at the time we finally found out the aid was being released. You know sort of weird statement from Republican Senator Lindsey Graham. We're thinking what exactly happened either today or yesterday with the Ukrainian but you said that it would that it was still. It'd been freed up last night. You need to ask them. Yeah Yeah last night I got freed up. You need to ask them weird statement right. But that was Lindsey Graham and he was the one who confirmed to reporters and thereby confirmed to the public for the first time the for some mysterious reason that he didn't even know this long standing being an increasingly troublesome a hold on aid to Ukraine had finally been lifted overnight. What he doesn't talk about now uh-huh and what has been somehow lost in the sauce of this impeachment scandal? Is that the reason reporters were asking him. Lindsey ground is because he Lindsey. Graham had taken a stand on this issue shoe Lindsey Graham and Democratic Senator Dick Durbin that very day had been working together on an amendment that would have confronted the trump White House on why that aid it was being held up. The amendment essentially would have forced their hand to make them release it. So Lindsey Graham was getting asked about the aid finally getting freed up because Lindsey Graham was a key part of the effort to force the aid out to to force the White House to do the right thing to confront the White House on this whole they had put on Ukraine's Ukraine's aid and to make it stop Republican Senator John Kennedy of Louisiana suggested. CBS News that same day that he would have been with Lindsey Graham and Dick Durbin on that as well telling. CBS News when they asked him about it quote. We support Ukraine period. End of discussion senator and none of this is all all that long ago. This is all within the last four or five months in which all of these Republicans in the House and the Senate were somewhat heroically the at least earnestly and aggressively standing up to get in the way of the trump administration messing with Ukraine standing up to the White House to aggressively push. Push back on this mysterious White House effort to try to mess. With Ukraine all these Republicans in the House and the Senate standing up to try to protect Ukraine lean against these weird machinations of the trump White House that were as yet unexplained standing up for our national support for Ukraine pointing out that our national support for for Ukraine was under girded by a huge. Bipartisan vote in the United States Congress to direct aid to them which had been signed into law by President Trump and therefore shouldn't be screwed up by anyone. I mean Mac. Thornberry Michael McCall Paul Cook Ron Johnson. Rob Portman Lindsey Graham. John Kennedy James inhofe. They honestly have all been in the lead here. They've at least been willing to stand up alongside Democrats to do the right thing here. Are they have all been white hat. Good guys standing up against the trump White House and demanding answers in terms of the mistreatment and the messing about of our ally Ukraine. They have all been doing the right thing here until very very recently. It's only been a few months since they all stood up on this issue to do the right thing and we've got the receipts. I mean we've got the details of it. Have they since lost convictions. On this matter does it turn out. This is something they don't really care about. They were faking carrying about it. uh-huh months ago for some reason or have they all decided that yes. It's important that we support Ukraine. But it's more important that the president demanded that Ukraine announce it's investigations of Joe Biden. And if they don't we can let that aid slide. Is that really what they think. I doubt that that all of those Republican members of the House and members of the Senate have changed their mind very much on the importance of US aid to Ukraine. I doubt that any of them feel less strongly about it. Now but where are they now. And where are they going to be. As this goes forward impeachments unpredictable things. We may or may not be about to head into the witness evidence portion of this trial that itself will be unpredictable even just in terms of the process be humble and anticipating anticipating what might happen next here in the facts are still coming out. I mean just tonight. As I sat down I was just handed. This this is yet more documents that were just pried loose under another freedom of information information. Act Lawsuit Tonight. This stuff was just pried loose by American oversight from the Department of Energy. And we're just starting to go through it yet more documentation released just tonight but you know as has the story continues to develop and the scandal continues to be exposed at the heart of it. All our individual elected officials Republicans Looki- among them who know about and care about and how fought for the real issues at the heart of the scandal. And no no matter what you think about out any individual politician and terms of how this fits into the rest of their politics and the rest of their biography. They all know that in all likelihood their behavior behavior in this impeachment of President Donald Trump is gonNA end up in the first paragraph of their obituary. Someday when they finally leave this earth. They all know that back and the human conscience is a powerful thing and I think we do all know that every member of Congress every senator associated with the scandal and with this impeachment all WanNa look back at this moment a something that they get to brag about thirty years down the road not as something they will hope people forget about them. I'll be right back the campaign for me in my races. The Senate that he was a Republican president. I there's a cedar not withstanding all of that. This was a very serious matter then. I don't much about it. I'd better find out and that's when I decided to do that and I I hope it does something to me to say that but I think we did a pretty good job with it. Are you concerned about what's in your hair color. Or maybe you just don't and have the time to visit a salon every six weeks I get it well good news. Madison Reed is a solution to all of our hair color. Woes its luxurious at home color made with ingredients. You can feel good about. That's long gone. Are the days of being at your stylists mercy. You can get salon-quality results at home in your own time and for a lot less money plus Madison Reed is made without damaging ingredients like ammonia and parabens. Instead it's filled with nursing things like Argon oil and Ginseng root extract. And not only am I getting shiny vibrant healthy looking hair. I'm getting the freedom to do it in the comfort of my own home. What's better than that if you're not sure which color is right for you? Just take their simple color quiz to get matched up with your perfect shade. GET AMMONIA FREY multi tonal hair-color delivered to your door for less than twenty five dollars at Madison Dash Reed Dot Com listeners of the Rachel maddow show get ten percent off plus free shipping on your first color kit with code motto. That's code meadow at Madison Dash Reed Dot com integrating Ukraine. To look into the by the transcript they WANNA move quickly. The president from office going inside impeachment with the reporters of NBC News Article Inside Impeachment by me. Steve Search News wherever. You're listening joining us now. Live is congressman. Adam Schiff. He is the chair of the House. Intelligence Committee is one of the House. Impeachment bit managers has been at the center of the Senate impeachment trial. Mr Chairman. Thank you so much for joining us. Tonight's pleasure to have you with you. So there's been some reporting wording on both sides as to whether or not Senate majority leader McConnell has the fifty one votes. He's trying to get to block any witness testimony at the trial whether he really doesn't have the votes or doesn't have them right now. We're not sure what. What's your understanding of the state of play on that now? I think it's still in flux. Basically I don't think either Senate leader can be all that confident of how that's going to turn out but I think it's very hard increasingly hard every moment every day for Republican senator hurts to say we don't want to hear from this witness who was at the center of things that had the president's ear that the president talked to about the heart of what the president is charged with here And therefore we come to the end at least of this beginning of the trial where we thought we would be once. We presented our case and the President presented his case. And that is the president's team basically has admitted that Donald Trump acted corruptly withheld. This money tried hi to cheat in the next election. Use the money to course or extort the lead of Ukraine into doing his political dirty work and so all we can fall back on now is so what The constitution doesn't allow us to do anything about it and for that argument. They're savior is Alan Dershowitz. Criminal Defense is lawyer who admits in his statement that his view is out of the mainstream. Indie Jonathan Turley who is the Republicans own constitutional expert in the House has said now again publicly. Dershowitz is wrong but you don't need consumer law professors to tell you that This whole theory theory is wrong. You just have to apply common sense Are the Republican senators really prepared to say that president who compromises our national security uses muses hundred millions of dollars of taxpayer money for military gear and weapons to help an ally defend itself against our adversary to coerce political investigations into his opponent. Are we really prepared to say that fat conduct is compatible with Office of the president. Tomorrow begins begins a new phase of the trial. You said this is sort of the the end of the beginning. We're going to start tomorrow. Sixteen hours of written questions from senators on both sides And I went through all of the questions that were submitted in the in the Clinton impeachment trial. I saw the remarks today from Chief Justice Roberts that he wants the questions to be framed in such a way that they could be answered in five minutes. I wonder how you and your team are preparing for this next stage. You obviously don't know what you're going to be. He asked and you need to be prepared to answer in fairly short bites on any any number of things that you might get from each side. But we've tried to divide up the topics topics so that members can focus on specific subject matter areas and so if the questions relate to that area we have managed to go to here or there. It's difficult to divide them out precisely and of course you can't anticipate everything you're going to be asked but we can anticipate a lot of it. I look at all the Clinton questions. It's a lot of them would ask. You know the side that you know. Support the case that the senators believed had been made and then the other side would would ask the other either the managers or the president's lawyers if they wanted to respond to what had been said both parties I think used it to expand their their case but also respond and rebut arguments made by the other side. I'm so that's largely. What will happen? But we'll have to sleep congressman. Schiff if you have a second if I could ask you we have to take a quick break at a couple of things I want to ask you about including some of the latest reporting on John Bolton his prospect as a witness if you could stick with us sure Great Congressman Adam. Schiff the house impeachment. Managers be back with us right after the stay with US joining us once again again is chairman. Adam Schiff the head of the intelligence committee in the House. One of the House impeachment manager. Sir thanks again for your time tonight. After she's sticking with us if the Senate ends up not voting for witnesses again and there has been reporting that they may or may not have the votes to do so if they ended up not voting for witnesses. Would you the other impeachment managers consider asking chief justice. Roberts he himself would authorize subpoenas for witnesses rich. I really don't want to get into or strategy. Or what our fallback all back plan. Maybe if the senators Refuse to call for John Bolton but I will say this you were asking earlier about the questions that senators will have for us. I won't have a chance to ask the senators questions but if I did the three that I would ask the senators are. Would you agree that John Bolton has relevant testimony and if you do why don't you WanNa hear it and how can you have a fair trial without with this. I may not get a chance to ask the senators that question. I won't get a chance to ask him that but their constituents will and I think those are very difficult questions for the senators answer So you know I wanNA keep the focus where it is right now. John Bolton should come testify. I think that's abundantly clear. The presence lawyers tried to contest What John Bolton has to say They claim that this was about a policy. Dispute at the president is being impeached over policy. Dispute this is not a policy dispute John Bolton I think will make clear the aid was withheld not because I'm any policy reason but because of a corrupt reason because the presence desire to use that money as leverage to get help Improper illicit help to cheat in the election. So that I think is really what's issue here and I just don't want to get into strategy beyond that we of course don't know what's in John Bolton's book the reporting from The New York Times says that in the manuscript Bolton asserts that the president trump specifically told him that he didn't want to release any aid to Ukraine unless so Ukraine announced investigations into the Biden's. That's actually the core claim at the heart of your case for the president's removal from office. Is that the core issue that you would plan to ask Bolton Alton about or is there more that's directly relevant to the question before the Senate that you'd like to ask him about as well you know. There's certainly a lot more. We'd like to ask ask John Bolton after all as Dr Fiona Hill testified Said you know you go. Tell the lawyers after this meeting on July tenth at the White House in which Sunland Basically blurted out in front of the Ukrainian delegation. Hey we've gotta deal here with Mulvaney. You make the announcement these investigations negations and you'll get your White House meeting. We'll give you a date. And John. Bolton says to Fiona Hill go talk to the lawyers. Tell them I don't want to be part of whatever drug deal he'll sunland and Mulvaney have cooked up. Obviously we WANNA ask him what he knows about that. Drug deal That was July Purportedly in this book of John Bolton Confronts the present or a conversation with the president the following month in August about the other quid pro quo involving military aid that is certainly the most serious allegation against the president. Now proven by the House and its case but this is further direct evidence in addition to the director. Confession by Mick Mulvaney Amy. That he talked to the president that the president told him that. Yes the investigations or one of them were part of the why he held up the money. Solomon also another first first hand witness said that While the president said no quid pro quo on the same call Also said Budzynski. It's got to go to the Mike and he's gotTa want to do it and announced these investigations basically described a quid pro quo. So Bolton is another confirming witness there was also abundant circumstantial evidence during the trial with this a suicide base. All the facts. The only conclusion they could reach two plus two week was four is that this is exactly the corrupt scheme. The president was involved in so While we want to ask him about but yes that's the most serious allegation and it comes apparently a direct conversation with the President Congressman. C'mon Adam Schiff one of the house impeachment manager at the center. That's impeachment trial. Sorry no the next couple days are going to be long days when you and your fellow managers are going to have to be on your feet for a long time Ah Good Luck. Keep US apprised and hope. See back soon thank you very much. Thanks very much all right. We've got much more ahead tonight. Stay with us. This is the front page banner headline of The New York Times yesterday morning. Monday money to Ukraine tied to inquiries Bolton Book says Washington Post led with it to manuscript leaks spurs calls for Bolton Testimony Wall Street Journal Bulletin claimed ties trump to aid. Freeze the Miami Herald trump uptight Ukraine aid to inquiries that he sought Bolton Book says those were headlines Yesterday morning Monday now today for second day in a row still still dominating New York Times Bolton's account fuel Senate push to call witnesses. Washington Post Revelations Royal. Gop Senators The Los Angeles Times above their understandably giant headline about the death of Lakers star. Kobe Bryant there it is in the left hand column there. Bolton claims rattled adult trump lawyers USA Today Bolton book adds to call for witnesses. There's politico taking the entire front page Bolton sets off trial trial frenzy. Here's the Tampa Bay Times. All caps bold Bolton's books steals spotlight. Here's the Minnesota Star Tribune Bolton Book upends Gop Reappear Strategy The moines register six days out from the Iowa caucuses going with a huge headline above the fold Bolton sought as witness. There's is the Charlotte Observer in North Carolina. GOP DEFENDS TRUMP as Bolton book adds pressure. The Bolton News is sticking I mean two days in in a row a front page headlines about ambassador. John Bolton potential testimony in the impeachment trial. It is not going away amid questions tonight about whether Senator Mitch. McConnell McConnell has the votes to try to block John Bolton and all witnesses from testifying and the White House might do to try to stop that testimony. Even if McConnell does have the votes how much muscle the White House could bring to bear in their own efforts to try to foreclose the prospect of Bolton telling his story the question of what the White House has in its quiver. What it might be able to do if it tries is a story that might surprise you and we have an expert opinion on that you will want to hear next? Stay with us while we wait to see whether Senate Republican leader Mitch. McConnell has the votes to try to block testimony from witnesses at the impeachment trial including John Bolton while we wait to see what the White House will do to try to fend off that possibility. Here's something intriguing published today. Just security by Ryan Goodman and Andrew Weisman headline why the White House may not dare fight on executive privilege joining us now is Andrew Weissmann former federal prosecutor including his work as a member of special counsel Robert. Muller's Muller's team Mr Weisman. Thanks for being here like you and Mr Goodman have done a service by pointing out that everybody's talking about executive privilege when it comes to the the power that the White House has the block witnesses but you're essentially saying that's kind of a bluff that they're never going to actually assert it. I'd be surprised if they did. And we started thinking about this. When we heard heard Senator Murkowski save that she was concerned about? Just how long it would take if they'd call John Bolton because it may just be a long drawn out process in court and we thought right okay. There are two issues that one is waiver because now we've seen the president himself and authorizing other people to talk about what it is. That happened or claims happened with John. Bolton and the other is that if you actually go to court and you ask a court to defend their boat and shouldn't be able to talk because of executive privilege the court is going to look for whether it's waved or whether there is crime fraud because that is an exception the whole point of executive privilege is that you want good good advice from your legal advice from the people around you totally legal advice exactly both sense of the words if you are doing Nisa getting. You're actually making these these. Having this conversation order to commit a crime the court obviously is not going to say that's protected by executive privilege that came up in Watergate as well right when the White House is threatening to invoke executive privilege as a reason for things not to be admissible. That was part of the problem. Is that these conversations were we're about crimes or covering up crimes and therefore they couldn't by definition to be privileged exactly and say go right there if they did actually bring this stuff into into court judges they might duck it by saying waived. I don't need to reach this issue. But a lot of judges at least in the argument phase. We'll explore all of the different issues. So you you could imagine a District Court judge saying I wanNA talk about waiver and now let's talk about crime fraud this by the way came up special counsel's office and Chief Judge Barrel How l. let them is. All public had a decision about Paul Manafort and when he spoke to his council. We had made a motion saying that should not be privileged because of crime I'm fraud and the judge asked for all the evidence about it and then made a decision that in fact crime fraud applied the same court that the Senate Republicans or the White House would have to go to in order to ensure that in that just to be clear in that part of the Manafort case she wanted did that evidence withheld from the court on the basis of privilege. The judge ruled Nope we. I'm fraud means that it's actually admissible. Exactly which would happen to the president if he was in the same boat right. And you can imagine Matt Justin Moore and then hit exactly and politically. Unlike the MANAFORT case politically for the president. It would not be great obviously save stating the obvious obvious type of court make a finding wouldn't then just be the Democrats saying we're alleging something you'd have court making the initial determination that I find crime. Crime fraud applies and the executive privilege is not going to block this bottom line here. This is very helpful. There is a lot of nonsense being said about what the White House can do. Or will ultimately do due to try to drag this thing out and it's worth calling their bluff on some of it Andrew Weissmann. Thank you very much very close. All right. We'll be right back. Stay with US and here it is. In the wild this is a billboard truck that puttered around Washington DC all day shuttling between the capital and the White House and the trump hotel was paid for by Republicans for the rule of law a group of self proclaimed lifelong Republicans who have been rallying being against this president. The reason this thing has a giant picture of the vice presidents face on it is because this truck is supposed to convince Republicans who might be on the offense about removing president trump from office that going ahead with doing so might not be so bad if you clearly it says. They're removed trump four pence on the one side and it says pence it could be worse on the other. It also pointed to a website president pence dot com. They seem to be testing on a campaign slogan for a president pence quote. Well I guess he'll do. Here's their pitch for president pence quote dump. Donald Trump. Get Mike Pence. Mike Pence is a bland boring completely typical ordinary conservative Republican from India from Indiana and if the Senate does its duty they'll make him the next the president of the United States if Donald Trump is removed from office Mike Pence Not Nancy Pelosi or Hillary Clinton becomes the president. And you know we. We could do worse. I didn't say that they did that. Does address tonight. We will see you tomorrow. The show weeknights at nine stern on. MSNBC YOU WANT TO BE President. I've watched many candidates for their party's nomination but only a few knew how to get it for this microphone. My podcast. PODCAST is about what it takes to get the nomination. Six episodes six timeless themes that separate the few winners from any losers. The hope still lives and the dream. Steve Schell never die. So you WANNA be President with Chris Matthews and M._S._N._B._C.. PODCAST searched now wherever you're listening and subscribe. I two episodes available now.

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Full Episode: Sunday, November 10, 2019

This Week with George Stephanopoulos

46:14 min | 1 year ago

Full Episode: Sunday, November 10, 2019

"This week with George Stephanopoulos starts right now. Impeachment goes public we will begin open hearings. President trump defiant despite like damaging testimony was just a continuation of the hope. It's a disgrace folk thing. We'll these open hearings. BE A game changer. For Congress the President and the nation this morning will break down the key moments so far plus the perspective from both sides of the aisle representatives. Jackie Speier and and Mac Thornberry join US line and will he or won't he will billionaire Michael Bloomberg shakeup. The twenty twenty race inside and analysis from our powerhouse. Roundtable Mary Bruce Matthew Down US Mukalla Jonathan Swan plus an ABC news exclusive Veterans Day weekend. The president's new top military adviser Chairman Mark Lilly in his first interview. How important is it to keep an American presence? In Syria the footprint will be small but the objective will remain the same enduring defeat devices from. ABC News this week he now co Laker rutted. Good morning and welcome to this week. It started with one whistleblower now less than two months later a full blown impeachment pitchman inquiry set to reach a critical phase the first public testimony that will likely shape public perceptions of the investigation and the future of of the trump presidency. The central questions wasn't an abuse of power for the president to ask a foreign leader to investigate a political rival here at home was he acting to further his own personal and political interests by withholding military aid from a key ally with all of the rhetoric flying from on both sides of the aisle and president. Trump's own freewheeling defense we wanted to hit the pause button and ask how did we get here. The actions taken to date by the president has seriously violated the Constitution September Twenty Fourth House Speaker. Nancy Pelosi formerly opens an impeachment inquiry after a bombshell whistle blower complaint raised concerns over trump's July phone call with the Ukrainian President Vladimir Alinsky. The conversation was was perfect by phone. Call was perfect. According to White House memo detailing debt call trump tells the Ukrainian president. We do a lot for Ukraine Linski later respond. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically buying American anti I tank missiles. Trump's response I would like you to do us a favor though he goes on to asks Alinsky to investigate a deep bunk theory about the twenty. He's sixteen election and then a second request an investigation into his Democratic rival. It goes to the core of whether the president abuse his office office to seek political help in his reelection campaign and did so to the detriment of our nation security house. Democrats have issued at least twenty-six Twenty six subpoenas and at least fifteen individuals have appeared before Congress according to witness testimony. Trump's demand was pushed his top advisors including his acting chief of staff and his personal attorney in phone calls and meetings for months among the key. Testimony Johnny so far. Bill Taylor the top US diplomat in Ukraine who told Congress he was told everything including military aid and a White House meeting was contingent contingent on Ukraine's willingness to launch the investigation trump requested. Gordon Sunlen the US ambassador to the EU who in a stunning about-face revised his testimony Sunlen now saying he told a top. Ukrainian official Ukraine would likely not receive military eight unless Ukraine publicly agreed to investigate. Trump's targets and lieutenant. Colonel Alexander Vincent a White House national security official who was on that July phone call Vin men recalled one meeting in particular where senior Ukrainian officials were told. They had to investigate the Biden's curnow inman also testified. He was told the whole on. Military aid came from the White House. Chief of staff office in the face of mounting evidence. The president has been unrelenting in his defense impeach with John to solar house. Republicans Largely Ardsley closing ranks around the President as Democrats move forward. Those open hearings will be an opportunity for the American people to evaluate evaluate the witnesses for themselves to make their own determinations about the credibility of the witnesses but also to learn first hand about the facts of the president's misconduct and joining me now to break this down. Further is ABC News Senior. National correspondent Terry Moran. And Terry I WANNA start with these public hearings and who the the public will see testify to big witnesses to lead off. William Taylor was the acting ambassador in Ukraine and Georgia. Kansas State Department official with responsibility over. So you're GONNA get a picture from Kiev from Ukraine and from Washington from two men who were very alarmed about what was going on and then the end of the at the end of the week Maria Ivanovich which who was the ambassador who was pushed out by Rudy Giuliani and others in the administration and Terry really at the heart of this is a federal law that says it would be illegal it to accept receive or solicit anything of value from four national in connection with the US election. There are those who say the phone transcript itself showed wrote that but now we have this long line of witnesses. We do a lot of election. Lawyers will tell you that the phone transcript does demonstrate that the president violated election law some elections shoyer will tell you know because it doesn't have a determinate monetary value and. That's a debate in election law. But really this isn't about election it's about the constitution and and the question. Does the evidence show that the president abused his power by trying to get a foreign government go after his political rival. Is that an impeachable offense. It's the constitution. Really that I think the congress and the country's going to focus on and the whistle blower a lot of attention obviously on the whistleblower doesn't sound like that whistle blower will be appearing. Do you think it's important. Well not not from an evidentiary standpoint. Adam Schiff the chairman of the intelligence committee said other witnesses in sworn testimony have borne out. What the whistle blower complaint plaint says? So he's not or she is not necessary in testimony it's probably true from evidence and federal law protects this whistle blower from any kind of retaliation and there is a concern concerned. The inflammatory language might endanger the whistle blower. But I covered jury trials for longtime juries like to eyeball with this. And we're talking about overturning. A presidential election there will be Americans for home. The impeachment evidence is less persuasive his diminished because they can't see and know the person who started their motivations Sion's and intent and in Teheran. No you've covered the the Clinton impeachment. You obviously followed the Nixon impeachment as a little kid. But what are the possible outcomes here here well. The president could be removed from office. I think there's some confusion about the word impeachment. Impeachment is the indictment it is going to go to the floor of the House of Representatives. Almost certainly and it looks says if the president will be impeach to be a trial in the Senate and if sixty seven senators or two thirds of the senators present vote the president will be removed from office. But I think ultimately what we're looking at is the final verdict will come from the American people on Election Day about this conduct about whether or not we WANNA presidency that goes to other governments for assistance and going after political rivals and that the election day now less than a year away will be the ultimate verdict on all of this. Thanks as always terry thanks. So let's bring in democratic representative. Jackie Speier a member of the Intelligence Committee which will conduct those public hearings this week. Thanks so much for joining us. Let we ask you. Robert Muller's public testimony earlier. This year did not galvanize public opinion on the findings of his investigation into Russian interference in the two thousand sixteen gene election and while this is obviously a different allegation. How do you make a stronger public case? This time I think for a number of reasons. First of all Bob Muller's report was four hundred pages. Long had a lot of lease. This is a very simple straight-forward act. The president broke the law. He went on a telephone call with the president of Ukraine. And said I have a favor though and then proceeded to ask for an investigation of his rival and this is a very strong case of bribery. Because you have an elected official the president demanding action of a foreign one country in this case of an providing something of value which is the investigation and he is withholding aid. Which is is that official act and the constitutions very clear treason bribery or acts of omission Shen and in this case it is clearly one of those obviously Republicans would disagree with you on a lot of that? Republican sent their list of witnesses. They they WANNA call as part of the intelligence committees public impeachment hearings. Yesterday it included the whistle blower and Hunter Biden. But this is what intelligence committee chairman. Adam Adam Shifts said in a statement last night this inquiry is not and will not serve however as a vehicle to undertake the same sham investigation into the Biden's Sir Twenty sixteen and in the letter to Republicans shift calling the whistle blowers testimony redundant and unnecessary and would only place their personal safety. The at grave risk. It doesn't sound like the chairman will allow Biden or the whistle blower to testify as the Republicans have requested if you're able to guarantee not his or her safety. Why shouldn't the whistle blower testify well the whistle blower actually provided a document? He was third hand. We have Colonel Vin men who was actually on the call who will be in a position. I think to testify and so you you have a much more direct person to speak to about the events and you have the actual transcript that the president himself provided that is cooperation. So you have what we have to prove though is corrupt intent and we prove corrupt intent by showing first of all the money was withheld secondly there was concealment. There's concealment by virtue of having that transcript put into a special server. You have concealment because you have persons within the administration who are prevented from testifying. You then go further and you you have this diversion by the president by trying to focus on the whistle blower who legally has a right not to be a congresswoman even though even though Oh they're meadow government even though there may be a legal. Right are Terry Moran was just saying it's someone that people might want to hear from for for political benefit is. Is that something you should consider. Having the whistle blower come forward because Republicans have made such an issue of this I think the Republicans are making king issue of anything that they think will give them some gravitas. The only thing that the whistle blower can say is that he was told by other people's about the phone call. We have the other people coming forward to actually testify so you have direct evidence not indirect evidence. Let's and the whistle blower has great risk associated with his life right now and he also has the right under the law under the whistle blower statue statue to have his whistle blower complaint filed and for him to be anonymous very strong about whistle blower protection. And you've who says the rules driving. The impeachment process are very equal and yet chairman shift. Hand turned down those gop witnesses and the White House lawyers are not allowed to participate in public hearings before the House intelligence committee. How is that very equal? Well there are other witnesses. The Republicans have requested that I would think that the the chairman is going to make available to testify to Morrison as one Kurt. Volker is another. We Wanna stay focused on the Ukraine call. Paul and having Hunter Biden come in is unrelated to the crane call and so that becomes irrelevant. The whistle blower again has protection as it relates to having the witnesses be questioned by someone within the White House that that can in fact happen. The president can have a conclusion they can reach at the end of the Actual Judiciary Committee hearing. And All we're asking for is that we receive what we are rightly deserving which is the documentation from State Department all of which is with been withheld and the primary people like Mulvaney. Who is the chief of staff who took direct orders from the president of course is using this phony argument uh of absolute immunity which doesn't exist in the law? Okay we thank you for joining us this morning congresswoman Speier will have the Republican response when we come back you you may have heard about a VPN that was recently breached. Hackers compromised the very thing that WIFI users relied on to help keep them private online. Thankfully there's a VPN you can choose that comes comes from trusted leader and Consumer Cyber Security Norton Secure VPN. It uses bank grade. Encryption to help block hackers from stealing the Info you send and receive over Wifi. It's it's part of the all in one protection. You get with Norton three sixty with lifelock. It includes Norton secure. VPN device security identity theft protection and more. Don't risk compromising your online privacy with the wrong. VPN Get a VPN. That's part of the all in one protection you need for today's connected world get norton sixty with lifelock no one can prevent all cybercrime. I'm an identity. Theft or monitor all transactions at all businesses but Norton. Three sixty with lifelock is a powerful ally for your cyber safety sign up today and save twenty five percent off your first first year by going to norton dot com slash ABC. That's twenty five percent off Norton three sixty with lifelock at norton dot com slash. ABC NORTON DOT COM SLASH ABC. You there are perfectly appropriate. Quid pro quo. And there are an appropriate Crib Quinn for coach anytime that anyone talks to the president. He's been very clear. There is no linkage. There is no quid pro quo. What I I can tell you? About the trump policy toward Ukraine. It was incoherent. It depends on who you talk to. They seem to be incapable of forming up with just some of the Republican defense of the president this week. So let's bring in Congressman. Mac thornberry the top Republican on the House Armed Services Committee and Congressman thornberry. You just heard Congresswoman Speier lay out the democratic strategy for these public hearings Republicans of criticized the process of this inquiry up to now now. What's the Republican strategy to combat the substance of these allegations? Well you started out Martha by saying how did we get here and let me add a couple of things to that because I think it is important to remember. Shortly after President Trump was inaugurated. There were Democrats rats who were calling for him to be impeached because they were so surprised that the results of the last election we literally had two and a half years of investigations. Sion's subpoenas the Muller report all of that and then all of a sudden September the whistle blower comes forward and says. Oh but there's this this conversation that I worried about all of that. Two and a half years of investigation gets swept aside and now the Democrats put all of their eggs in this one basket. The problem is they started this basket not with the Nixon and Clinton precedence as far as making sure there was was appropriate transparency and due process. They have made it one sided from the beginning very partisan so. I think whatever happens now. there will be attained to this one-sided partisan approach to impeachment that is different than has been used before and so I think there will be intense skepticism about whatever they come up with again. They don't letter Smith. I we will you there they. They don't let the witnesses come. It has been one-sided from the beginning congressman here again talking about Ross Process the process. Ask You about substance. How defend against this substance well as you know? May maybe you know Martha I believe that. It is inappropriate for a president to ask a foreign leader to investigate a political rival. Now leads to a question. If there's a political rival with a a family member WHO's involved in question activity what do you do. Just let them alone but set that aside. I believe it was an appropriate. I do not believe it was impeachable. And and I you know. y'All always want to say substance not process. There's a reason. We let murderers and robbers and rapists. Go free when they're due. Process rights have been violated. We believe the integrity of the system the integrity of the Constitution the Integrity Birdie of the processes under our legal system is more important than the outcome of one particular case so. I don't think you can sweep process under the rug. Doug because it is part of an impeachment decision which has a constitutional requirement bribery treason high crimes and misdemeanors but also a political element about whether it's good for the country to pursue it. Under these circumstances. Why is what you have seen not ought a clear abuse of power? I know you've said it's inappropriate. His remarks but not impeachable. Why is what you've seen? Thus far in the transcript of that phone call which we discussed not a clear abuse of power or bribery as the constitution lays out. You're right. The constitution is very specific. Bribery treason high crimes and misdemeanors which basically means felonies. So that's what you have to prove as a threshold shoulder question. The second question is under the circumstances. Do you believe that. It's good for the country to proceed with impeachment. I would suggest couple of circumstances dances are relevant. Here number one is. There's not really anything that the president said in that phone call. That's different than he says in public all the time. So is there some sort of abuse abuse of power that rises to that threshold. That is different than the American people have been hearing for three years. I don't hear that. But but secondly we do. We have an election coming up so doing it at this time and make no mistake. The Democrats are rushing this through by Christmas. So they don't interfere here with their candidates being in Iowa New Hampshire and so forth next year. Let the IMB put everything. They've got out there fine. Let let me ask you quickly sir. Let's odd this in in less than a year. Let me ask you quickly. Do you believe the whistle blower should testify. And do you believe Hunter Biden should testify. I have not been in the room for all like most members of Congress I have not been in the room for all of these hearings and and and and secret secret proceedings so I don't really know who the proper witnesses ought to be. I mean I think what Jackie Speier says right the hunter the whistle blower basically has third hand information Not Necessary to what extent I don't know to what extent extent he or she may have information that relates to other people's information so I can't make that call I think it's got to be the people in the room. mm-hmm who make the call but again there has to be a fair way to arbitrate to decide who the witnesses are. We've had none of that so far. Okay okay thanks very much for joining us. This morning congressman thornberry. Thank you Mr President for the trust and confidence that you have placed in me you can rest assured that I will always provide you. Informed candidate impartial military advice. That was general Mark Milley taking on his new role as the Twentieth Twentieth Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of staff a little over a month ago the principal military adviser to the president. I I met Milly. Nearly fifteen years ago ago on his first deployment to Iraq on a night patrol in two thousand five in Baghdad and again on a deployment to Afghanistan ten years ago this time. I traveled to the Pentagon ahead of Veterans Day. Tomorrow where we talked about the meaning of service but I started by asking him about current troop levels in Syria area. After president. Trump's recent call to withdraw forces. If I do my math and I look at the new troops going in and those going out it could be more than seven hundred who remain there'll be less than a thousand For sure and in probably in the five hundred ish frame Maybe six But it's in that it's in that area but we're not going to go into specific numbers because we're still going through the analysis. How important is it to keep an American presence in Syria? There are still isis fighters in the region and unless pressure is maintained unless attention attention is maintained on on that group Then there's a very real possibility that conditions could be set for reemergence devices. So we're committed to do that The footprint will be small all but the objective will remain the same enduring defeat devices. We've now killed Baghdadi the leader of Isis. They've named a new leader. Tell us what you know about that new leader and what effect really will the death of Baghdadi have on Isis is death will have a very significant disruptive trump defect on on the organization as a whole they have apparently replaced him with another leader We do have a lot of information on that individual and we'll see in the days ahead and weeks and the months ahead If he's able to piece together his his organization or not We'll pay close attention to them and we're opportunities arise arise. We'll go after him as well. Iran announced this week. It would begin injecting uranium gas into centrifuges. They keep pushing this. Making more provocative moves with their nuclear program. Where does this end? Iran's been a challenge for the United States since the Ed Revolution Nineteen seventy-nine. We hope diplomatic efforts will resolve the nuclear issue of the development of nuclear weapons with Iran And we place our faith in the a diplomatic efforts but at the same time will will make sure that we maintain appropriate levels of military capabilities in the region to defend American interests if required the US says that Iran was responsible for attacking those tankers that they are responsible for shooting down a highly sophisticated very expensive save American drone and yet there haven't been significant consequences. Well there's been consequences. Government has chosen not to react militarily at this time but we have the capability to. We've added some capability Just as recently as last month and we'll see it depends on the scope scale and nature of any kind of provocation. Iran does or any kind of threat they do against US forces in particular Organs you US interests or our friends and allies in the region and want to move to Afghanistan. We have been in Afghanistan more than eighteen years. What would you say to someone who is eighteen? Years Old. Who Male or female female may end up serving a war that began before they were born? Well I think we have to go back to the original reason why we are in Afghanistan to to begin with which is nine one one so we went there in order to make sure that Afghanistan never again would be a haven a safe haven to terrorists that would attack the United States? That mission is not yet complete And in order for that mission to be successful The government of Afghanistan the Afghan security forces are going to have to be able to sustain Their own internal security to prevent terrorism using territory to attack other countries especially the United States That efforts ongoing it's been ongoing for eighteen consecutive years. I suspect it'll be ongoing into the future for for several more years. And when you say that that we're going to be there that long that makes me think we'll be there that long in Iraq and Syria wherever the Islamic comic status. I think that It's not just as long as it's other groups but I think that we will be there for a significant amount of time because it's in our national interest Chris to be there to help out. I WanNa ask you about Ukraine. Ukraine obviously has been a very hot topic of late. How important is the military aid to Ukraine especially with Russia there on its border? Well here we are on the thirtieth anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall and since that time Russia has aggressively acted against Ukraine and the United States chose to help Ukraine with With money with advisory Aid With training and manning equipping through two administrations. And we're continuing to do that so I think it's important to continue to help. Ukraine maintain its Sir free and sovereign status. And I WANNA ask you about lieutenant. Colonel Alexander Vitamin who has been testifying on the hill. Do you have any questions about his loyalty to you. Know Lieutenant Colonel. I don't personally know the ten commandments but I will say that What I have learned over the years as an an active duty military officer is not to comment on active investigations? And I do know that Lieutenant Vincent is a witness to an active duty or an active investigation should being conducted by Congress right now so it would be inappropriate for me to make any public comments on on one of the witnesses. It is Veterans Day on Monday. And and as I look at you and so many other veterans I see especially those bars those stripes on your rights sleep each one of those means six months in combat zone. You've got ten of those five years so many others have sacrificed so much in the ultimate ultimate ultimate sacrifice as well. The Veterans Day is to honor all of our veterans. And first of all. Who Do you think about? Well I mean the first veterans I met with my mother and father both veterans of World War Two and my dad was in the Fourth Marine Division's Navy Cormon in the Fourth Marine Division made the assault landings at a Lean Saipan Kenyon. He Will Jima. saw some very horrendous combat And then my mother served in the Navy She was a medical orderly at a hospital and Seattle taking care of the wounded. They clearly Put Sense of service gave me a sense of how lucky I was to be an American American. Lucky it was to Grow up in a country where we have freedom of speech freedom of press freedom of religion in a wide variety of other privileges and rights. That are not well known around the world. Many many places I've had About two hundred and forty two soldiers have been killed on my command in one way or another since nine one one I think of them A lot at all kinds of times of the day and two o'clock in the morning eyes pop open and you start thinking about what those young men and women and have done for this country and the freedoms we have Martha or not free They're paid for the the blood of all. The Sodas sailors airmen marines have been fighting for it for two and a half century's fewer than one percent serve in the military in this country. You went to Princeton played hockey instead of West Point. What is it that you could explain to those Americans who don't serve? When I went to Princeton I met the hockey coach? And he was a marine captain from Vietnam And he introduced me to ROTC. He said it's an opportunity here if that's on your mind So I thought I'd do that in my country for four years and then get out But here I am forty years later later so I have not looked back. I've never regretted it and I think service to the country and service to the nation is a very important Calling our thanks to the chairman and in all of our veterans. Here's the story of your win. They're gonNA make like home. And if you lose sticking to say trump suffered the greatest defeat in the history of the world. This was the greatest. You can't let that happen to me. That was president trump campaigning in Kentucky. Monday ahead of the state's closely watched governor's race this week. The result still too close to call but the Democratic candidate in the lead there in a state president trump won by thirty points in two thousand sixteen in nearby Mississippi the GOP candidate managed to close. Win while posing Louisiana have the Democratic incumbent governor a ahead going into a runoff this Saturday so just how bad of a sign are. These governor's races for the GOP and isn't a potential sign of trouble for for Republicans in two thousand twenty. We asked five thirty. Eight's nate silver DEA BY THAT SO Republicans did not have a great night on on Tuesday. And I don't really buy any White House spin. This was a good set of results for Trump Kentucky Mississippi Louisiana these are really red states places where the gop he usually wins easily. But I also don't buy that. This is any major reason for trump to panic. Here's why governors races are Quirky and local factors automatic no matter more than national partisanship. That's how you can end up with. Republican governors in states like Massachusetts Maryland in Vermont and democratic ones in places like Montana Montana and and if you go back to Kentucky all the other Republicans running statewide one on Tuesday night also the track record of these states and predicting the next. This year's presidential election is checkered at best Louisiana for instance has often pointed in the wrong direction in double digit win for Democrats in the gubernatorial race. As there in two thousand fifteen obviously did not predict a great year for Democrats in two thousand sixteen for example. And Look I get it. It's always good to see people actually voting but these results mostly told us things we already knew from previous elections and from the polls. It's not a surprise at affluent suburbs moving toward Democrats or that rural areas are becoming redder for for instance. That's been perhaps the most important and frankly obvious if you look at the map. Political trend of the past decade holes also tell us that elections right now are a little little bit of an uphill battle for Republicans trump's approval rating remains well underwater and Republicans trail by five or six points in polls ask people which party they'd rather see control. Congress as the midterms taught us last year trump will win and lose his fair share of races but he doesn't defy political gravity and our thanks tonight. So let's bring in the powerhouse roundtable. ABC News Senior Congressional correspondent. Mary Bruce ABC News Political Analyst Matthew Dowd. NPR political correspondent and it s macaulay and axios national political reporter. Jonathan Swan welcome to all of you and Mary. I'm going to start with you since you basically live Apple Hill. How do you see these public hearings playing out you heard I'm sure congresswoman Speier thornberry? What are you looking at? Well this is all about persuasion lesion at this point we know what these witnesses are going to testify. We've read these transcripts now. Democrats have to sell this to the American public. They know that they have got to build a a compelling case about why they feel. The president abused his power and why that rises to the level of how the constitution describes bribery. High crimes and Misdemeanors Democrats. Democrats are going to try and stay laser focused on the president's actions here on his actions to pressure Ukraine they feel congresswoman. Speier said that this is a cut and dry case and easier to sell to the American public but they are cute aware that they have muddied up the messaging in the path. They're going to have to cut through the noise. That is not always exactly and I know and she said this again and it's so simple but it really even. This seems to have been muddied up in the last few weeks. So so what do you think the Democrats have to do differently map. I think get Joe. They have to continue to present their case that they presented over the last month in a clear and concise way. If anybody thinks the public numbers are going to move dramatically different post hearing. It's it's delusional because there is already a majority or plurality is all for impeachment and removal almost at the height level that was Richard Nixon at the end before he resides. So it's not gonNA move that much. I think what they're going to try to do is present such a compelling case to push unbelievable pressure on the senators Republican senators in the Senate when it goes over there after after. I think they'll vote on impeachment. I think this is all been muddied up. I think one of the things that you were asking this earlier about the whistle blower. I think that whole thing is a distraction. The whistle blowers basically the person pulled the fire alarm and then everybody showed up and said there is a fire and there isn't arsonists there and the arsonists now has admitted to starting the fire. Now what do we do about that. So the whistleblower blur the person that pulled the fire alarm has nothing to do with where the Republicans are using that. It looks like as a distraction and so what else can they they do. I know they've moved. Jim Jordan to the intelligence committee presumably to defend the president. He's a very loyal defender of the president's and so that is part. How did the strategy? I think what I will be very curious to watch this. Week is how we see the Republicans ever-evolving defense. Because I think what happened if you look back to. The Muller Investigation is in some always. There was a pretty steady line of defense from the president was no collusion no collusion I think in this situation. Democrats are going to have to present a really airtight in case because we're already beginning to hear from Republicans you know. Maybe this was and I don't WanNa say a quid pro quo. But maybe some folks are acknowledging that that is a possibility but was it really an impeachable offense. I mean there's sort of an ever evolving defense from Republicans and that's why we're beginning to see him. They added to their witness list. Hunter Biden who Democrats would argue. Argue is irrelevant to this particular. And there's probably no way you'll see hundred. No no no way. Jonathan I the president seems to be using the same kind kind of strategy which which which which part two which window so is there a new strategy as we go into these public hearings the other than that I mean even Mac thornberry was was pretty much talking about process. Yeah I think you're going to see. Well I think I know from reporting that you're gonNA nece- two things over all this week from the White House and Republicans on Capitol Hill Number one is going to be emphasizing that none of these witnesses have firsthand knowledge. They know the people in the room talking to the president. So you'll see a lot of republican questions to people like Bill Taylor. So did you hear this from and who did they hear this from and try the emphasis. The degrees of separation The other thing that they're going to do is particularly with George. Kent the second State Department with us they are. We're going to try and make this about Hunter Biden because he admitted to raising concerns about Hunter Biden back in two thousand fifteen so expect the Republican questioning in that particular hearing hiring. We'll be to try and create that as a sort of alternative parallel narrative to what the substance of and compensation we've we've talked about people in the room or not in the room at the White House we've heard from John Bolton's lawyer that he has some rather tantalizing details that we haven't heard He is clearly not going to go up there unless court tells him to go there. What do you think the likelihood is and do you really need someone like Bolton so I think the likelihood who is almost zero because Democrats? I've been talking to house leadership and other Democrats involved over the last two days. They are not inclined to get into litigated this to to have a court fight even though the courts did signal that willing to do it pretty quickly. I think people do misunderstand. John Bolton the assumption the from some of the coverage I saw with that he was a trump quisling doing this out of losy. I'd actually don't believe that to be the case. I believe that Human Chuck Cooper his lawyer who go back decades actually do kind of care about the separation of Palestine if he's a trump quisling he's doing a pretty good job of hiding it because he signed a book deal with James Commes Book agents. He's criticized trump on North Korea. And I think at some point actually we will hear them damaging things from John Bolton. I've maybe not maybe not next. And how. How important is it that there is someone like John Bolton or Mick Mulvaney the president's acting chief of staff well Republicans will argue that? You need that person right to to draw that direct act link and Democrats liked to talk to him short. Do they feel they absolutely need to to make a compelling case. No Democrats would not be moving into this public phase into to public hearings. They did not feel that they already have the goods. Essentially they already have enough evidence to move forward and they are quick to point out that every time a bulletin or Mulvaney refuses their request West. They feel that's further evidence that the president and the White House is obstructing. And I WANNA turn quickly to the twenty twenty race big news this week with the possibility ability that Michael Bloomberg might join the race. Here's how some of the candidates responded and the Democratic field you. I want to run for president. That's fine don't think you can simply by an election by spending billions of dollars. We have a strong field. I here we need someone else in it terms of he's running because I last I looked at it. I'm pretty far ahead okay. Then but Bloomberg said back back in March. She wasn't going to run so why run now. The sense is that there is some nervousness amongst establishment Democrats and Democratic High Dollar Dollar donors about the current state of the race. I think there's nervousness about Joe Biden as a primary candidate and then there's nervousness about Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren as a potential general the election. Kennedy now I would argue if you talked to Democratic voters which I do a lot of time. They're really happy with this field. About three quarters of Democrats when you look at the polling are are satisfied despite their options but some of them are establishment voices as the establishment. Democratic Party always gets nervous election. They absolutely want to win and they think they need to win. In the course I this I think one of the things that I think we do badly in the media and oftentimes in the politics is that we think in eternity is like three years or two months or two weeks or whatever to me. This race looks a lot like when I look back at all the races. Interestingly enough in the aftermath of Watergate is nine hundred seventy six and nineteen seventy six there were. Seventeen candidates ran the most diverse field at that point in time to run. US senators former governors people. That were vice presidential candidates in all of that field and who emerged somebody comedy. That was at two percent in the polls for most of the time. Jimmy Carter who wasn't even an elected official at the time and there was this constant thing of Bloomberg pulled it about four percent and and and today and so I think there are today seven or eight candidates in the field or could be in the field at Bloomberg gets in that have the potential to be the Democratic nominee. This is going to have have lots of twists and turns. It's not it's not Joe Biden's race it's done. It's not billed as warns race. It's not Bernie Sanders race. I think this race could twist and turn throughout the primary process process going forward from from. Oh it's fine to pull out your nineteen seventy six and say this rantings happened before it's actually would have to be more rare in that because what Bloomberg is saying is. I'm basically going to ignore you. Iowa New Hampshire South Carolina. Forget you guys. I'm going to do this. Massive get funding. I'm I'm just GONNA spend an absolute gobsmack sum of money on Super Tuesday across blanketing the country with TB appetizing. We've never seen anything like this before. And I I do not take kindly to being ignored. And if he gets crushed in those two states but there is the Democratic nominee can emerge. Did you didn't win Iowa. Who did you say Clinton came back in? He had an eye. Let's everywhere article that we look at. When we see see this is that we're in a very disruptive time and the idea that you can run a traditional race and win this is gone and we do know the polls show? There's plenty of room for wiggle room here. There's there is a lot of potential movement but it does create a problem for Joe Biden like Bloomberg if he does get in is going into Biden's lane and he's coming with a ton of cash and the fact that we we know the Bloomberg is thinking about making this step in part because he's concerned the Biden is fading and it underscores the anxiety out there among Democrats about whether Biden can pull this off just that that alone. Those optics aren't great for Biden and Jonathan and elsewhere. Who are the people out there? No matter how much money is spent who are saying yes. Michael Bloomberg is finally getting in the race so so it was funny like asthma would probably have a better view of this the May Dan Bolshoi moisture pursuit of heroically. Tried to find a Bloomberg voter in New Hampshire. Komo craving Mike Bloomberg. When I talk to donors it's really the donors who are craving a Mike Bloomberg and I wonder whether it's it's human his ecosystem with the feedback? He gets you must Mike. You'll the savior. I just don't know how many voters in Iowa and New Hampshire feel like that. I mean it takes a lot of gumption to be a seventy seven year old thinking that you're going to change the sort of baby boomer dynamics of this race I mean at this point I would say I've met here and there. Somebody who's been excited about a Michael Bloomberg candidacy but I would argue. He's got to get through a Democratic primary rhino part of Joe Biden strength is his support amongst African American voters. Michael Bloomberg is somebody who has a pretty contentious past when it comes to issues. WHO's around policing even some of his skepticism? Around the metoo movement those are going to be stumbling blocks in a democratic and create a Great Talking Point for Warren in Sanders. They'd already has ask by the way with just about billion another one to rail against they were very quick both Warren and sanders to come out and talk about why they don't think this is a good thing I think. Some moderates may be wondering if Bloomberg entering the race may just hand Warrant a little bit of a boost but it also gives an opportunity to to me. I mean we. We focused on. Yes it does help them post up against about it. Gets Michael Bloomberg it does give people like Joe Biden and budgets and opportunity to prove out there progressive live mantle by saying this is not what we want in the field again. I'm going to emphasize this. This is a race that is undecided at this point with seventy five percent. The people saying they're satisfied with the race. You have seventy five percent of the people that say. They're not solid in their choice yet in this race in one look at the elections this week. You heard nate silver for talk about the meaning of those elections. The still too close to call and Kentucky Big Wins in Virginia. What are you reading into that I? I'm really cautious about over interpreting. The results salts as being a positive for Democrats and I say that in part. Because if you look at some of the Gallup polling that's come out recently just asking voters Democrats and Republicans. Are you enthusiastic about the race. Usually the party that is out of power is more enthusiastic and this case that should be the Democrats what we saw is Republicans and Democrats about equally enthusiastic and. I don't think that that's a a great sign for Democrat marriages quickly. Well I think what I find interesting about the racist this week was the impeachment factors so many Republicans thinking that they could run on impeachment that there would be this backlash to all but that didn't turn out to be the case especially in Kentucky if anything we saw that impeachment was firing up Democrats not necessarily moving Republicans to stand firmly with the Republican candidate Canada. And we'll see if they continue to be fired up after this next week and many beyond thanks to all of you for joining us today and that's all for us today. Thanks for sharing part of your Sunday with us. Check out world news tonight and be sure to tune in Wednesday for. ABC's live coverage of the impeachment inquiry public testimony. That's this Wednesday Wednesday starting at ten. Am Eastern have a great day and remember veterans. ABC News. Honored hurt winner of four. Edward R Murrow award including the most prestigious honor overall excellence in television. 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Morning Joe 1/11/19

MSNBC Morning Joe

1:02:51 hr | 1 year ago

Morning Joe 1/11/19

"Morning Joe supported by the almond board of California, did you know almonds grow in shell protected by a whole on a tree all of which are put to use with a goal of zero waste by twenty twenty five. Researchers are exploring new uses for these co products, including strengthening recycled, plastics, creating fuel brewing, beer and more. Learn more at almondsustainability dot org. Prosecutors say Trump directed it legal hush money to two women when during the campaign, I would say Mexico's going to pay for it. Obviously, I never said this, and I never meant to go to write out a check. They may even write a check by the time. They see what. Paul Manafort with Jerry polling data from your campaign with rock with. No, I didn't know think about nothing about it. So he denied knowing about these stormy Daniels payoff. Prosecutors say he did no he denied saying Mexico would cut a check for the border wall. But he did say that. And he denies knowing Paul Manafort wishing sharing data with a Russia linked associate we're going to leave. That fact check to Bob Muller. Good morning and welcome to morning, Joe. It is Friday January eleventh along with Joe Willie and me we have national fares analyst for NBC news and MSNBC and co host and executive producer of Showtime's, the circus, John Heilmann, Republicans strategist and MSNBC political analyst Susan Dell Percy, oh and Republican communication strategist. And MSNBC political contributor, Rick. Tyler is with us as well. Joe this shutdown it continues, its it's getting painful people were getting paychecks today with a big fat zero on them. And I'll tell you what the government shutdown is an important story. We're. Gonna be talking about that at length this morning, but I don't want any of us to lose sight of what's happening at the same time. What simultaneously unfolding right before our very eyes? We're watching the continued political ideological and moral collapse of mild party, the Republican party and make no mistake. Donald Trump's governing immorality and a morality is the engine. That's driving this collapse and has been driving this collapse for some time, but his Republican allies on Capitol Hill and in powerful positions across America are too eager and too willing to be his accomplices take the new Republican, chairman of the judiciary committee, South Carolina's Lindsey Graham. Now, I've known Lindsey for years we came in together in congress and nineteen ninety four and Lindsey was always considered to be one of the most genial reasonable and measured members of congress as a presidential candidate in two thousand sixteen. He routinely warned us. Of the moral ride that the election of Donald Trump as the party's nominee would bring to the Republican party. And he said that unhinged Manhattan developer would destroy the GOP if he were elected. Well, Lindsey was right. Then put now he's one of the administration's leading henchmen in hatching plots to run roughshod over our nation's traditions, and to turn the Republican party into a rudderless unprincipled collection of many me, Donald Trump's can you believe that Lindsey Graham a guy who along with me throughout the nineteen ninety s Chaffee, add the power of checks and balances, then of course. Then against Bill Clinton. We always talked about article one and the constitution is being constitutionalists will now that same Lindsey Graham. Who actually follow? John McCain's lead for so long is actually the Republican who's using his position as Senate chairman of the judiciary committee to encourage Donald Trump to declare a national emergency and illegally seize article one powers if he doesn't get his way on the border wall. Think about that for a second, and it is illegal. It will be overturned by the supreme court of the United States. And if Lindsay doesn't know that then he really shouldn't even be in congress. It's that obvious the courts will overturn this. Because in the midst of the kind of negotiations that Donald Trump's going through with Nancy Pelosi. It's a first time that this spoiled pampered brat who inherited two hundred million dollars from his father, and then blew through it. That brat has now grown up to be president of the United States. And then his seventy two seventy three. I don't know. How old is he Seventy-three? I'll tell you yesterday who. But anyway, this is first time anybody's ever stood up to him. And you know, what that's called that's called Madison democracy, and it's been the norm. This constitutional Republic for two hundred forty years, and that's just been a balance between two co equal branches of government. But Lindsay says it's not going Donald sway. So let's just to clear national emergency. We can rob money that kind, of course from people that are suffering in Puerto Rico. We can rob money from people who are suffering in California. We can rob money from our military men and women even though the armed services, chairman is said that would be deplorable. It is truly deplorable. And if that's not bad enough. I will Republican congressman Steve king. A man who has long shared a mutual admiration with Donald Trump spoke his truth and unashamedly declaring himself a white supremacist now in days past Kim would have immediately been censored and removed from the Republican conference. But at Donald Trump's GOP, they're just pro forma press releases and tweets of rebuked because in reality, oh king is doing seizes Mirroring, the president's views after that deadly March in Charlottesville and this morning. Steve king remains a member in good standing of the house and the Republican party. You know, I could go on. But you know, we only have three hours every morning conservatives like. Me can only now watch and wait in horror to see the awful legacy in the moral destruction that Donald Trump is going to have on the party that I want slugged and that he hijacked to win the White House. I can't tell you this today. Trump is leading this horror show. But you know, who I hold accountable Lindsey Graham, Mitch McConnell, Kevin McCarthy, Steve king and all the Republicans on Capitol Hill that are ducking their heads. They are the co conspirators complicit by their action or more importantly by their silence. The party of Lincoln and the party of Reagan. They're suffering through a massive moral collapse. It is sad, and it is dangerous for this country. And I believe it is the beginning of the end of my old party Willie. Jo well said, and I think there are a lot of people conservatives not the ones you've talked about there but conservatives out in public life yesterday writers and thinkers who have come out both against the president declaring a national emergency which you can use to threaten to do. And again, Steve king prominent conservatives withdrawing their support in fact, donating to the candidate who's announced a primary run against Steve king. So it's not happening in Washington. The Capitol Hill in that building. And you listed all the names. But there are people like you and many other conservatives who are standing up against what they've seen over the last couple of days. Let's get right into this though. Joe is meek a mentioned today is the first miss payday for federal workers and contractors who were either furloughed or not being paid in the partial government shut. Down a standoff that has now entered day twenty one and joins the December nineteen ninety-five into January of ninety six shutdown as the longest in history yesterday protests across the country, including in Washington, Chicago, Detroit, New York, Kentucky, Dallas and Ogden Utah. Or the Internal Revenue Service is one of the largest employers in that area and three quarters of the workforce is furloughed. The head of the FBI agents association said nearly five thousand special agents intelligence analysts attorneys and professional staff are currently furloughed resulting in reduced staffing for what they call critical functions that support field operations there were a few more Republican defections as the house approved to appropriations bills Thursday, twelve Republicans vote to vote with the democrat to reopen the transportation department and housing and urban development while ten voted defend agriculture programs, like food stamps, and the FDA which has suspended some food inspections. The administration as I mentioned has begun laying the groundwork for a declaration of national emergency to bypass congress to fund the border wall. It's certain to be challenged in court, but it is shutdown exit plan that would let President Trump claimed victory on his campaign pledge in order to sign a Bill to reopen. The government President Trump said yesterday he is leaning toward that national emergency. I have the right to player a national emergency. The lawyers have so advise me I'm not prepared to do that yet. What am I have to? I will if this doesn't work out. Probably I will. No, I would say definitely. So Joe I'll let you tackle that one. Also, just want to spring on NBC news and others reporting that the president is looking at diverting funds disaster relief funds from places like California after the wildfires places. Like, Notre Rico, Florida across the country money that's going to rebuild those places toward now building the wall, building the wall and John Heilemann. Donald Trump says he's got the legal authority for it. I don't know what lawyers us talking to it is there's no doubt the nineteen seventy six act is very broad. But there's also no doubt that Donald Trump never understand that when he thinks out loud and says if I don't get my way in political Nagoya. She ations I'll just clear national emergency. That does not fall under the act and one seriously doubts that have Harry Truman couldn't compel the still industry to not strike at the time of war. Donald Trump will not be able to declare a national emergency because he's not getting his way with Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer. Courts will chew that. And spit that out and people like Lindsey Graham will look like idiots. Well, let's hope. I joi- your lawyer, although a simple country, lawyers you often say, but I'm not so dumb country lawyer. So I so I I hope that you're right. It would seem that if you thought about the precedent. You thought about the history. The site Truman that there's a good cause to be hopeful that if the president does go ahead with this that the courts will stop him, as you know, the, you know, the courts have changed over time. And so I would I'm hopeful equally hopeful that we'll never have to test that that the test the courts on this matter. I mean, look, I think all the things you said earlier and the analysis all strike me as right in kind of obvious way that we're seeing the route of the Republican party and we're seeing Trump abuses power. If he goes ahead with this in the way, you suggest, but I just take it a little bit further in this sense. All of the things that all the things that are bad about the notion of declaring a national emergency in this context are are problematic in the extreme. But they're all the more. So over the fact that the entire thing is built on a gargantuan lie, which is not merely as usurping power not merely as diverting would. He would he be usurping his power going beyond the constitution going beyond? Slative mandate and diverting funds from things where there actually are people suffering as you pointed out, Puerto Rico, California, the places, but the whole thing is would be predicated on the notion that there is a national emergency on the border. When of course, there's not and that when you start to see John when you start to see an executive that's critical. Yeah. I mean that's critical because because Donald Trump, I guess doesn't understand what his lawyers? I guess don't understand is. Yes, the supreme court deals with with the law and interpreting the law, they also deal with facts are fact patterns that go along to every case, they apply the laws of the facts. Donald Trump will say there's an emergency at the border. Oh, what's the emergency? All the heroin coming across well, Mr President ninety percent, you can art. They'd say say say to the solicitor General, Sir. Ninety percent of the drugs that are coming across are coming through legal boards of entering. So it no that's not relevant though. We'll we'll we gotta caravan criminal. No, you don't have a caravan coming up, Mr.. Solicitor general that that actually was just a farce to help Donald Trump get elected and you'll stop talking about it the day after so that's not much of an emergency. Welcome. They immigrants illegal immigrants are streaming gross the border at record rates. Well, no, actually, the fact show that they're at twenty year low right now, you're exactly right, John. The fact patterns the fact patterns do not support any ruling that that would uphold an emergency declaration. It will not happen. There's only one emergency. Joe right now Donald Trump's life, and it's not a national emergency and armored suit the border, it's a political emergency. And I'll I'll just say that when you see a chief executive invoking a totally made up national emergency in order to actually try to solve a political emergency. And in that case in this context, divert resources invoke this national emergency and potentially be deploying the military in its service. You are seeing the actions of an autocrat that is a that is the behavior that if you saw it in a third world country. You would we have in many third world countries. You would say, well, that's the guy who runs the junta. That's the guy who runs the dictatorship who is who's instituting who's instituting martial law in the streets because his regime is crumbling. That's what we've seen this before. And that's what you'd be seeing in this context. Something very much parallel to that. And that's why it's so disturbing and Mika that's what many people are saying. Now that when we see if we see the collapse of democracy this country over time if we see the rise of autocrats in the United States of America it won't be by somebody bringing tanks across the fourteenth street bridge. It won't be by by a Hutu seizing television and radio stations. It will be by the continue erosion chipping Madison democracy of checks and balances. As of the seizing of oracle. One powers the running over of the power of a free and independent judiciary all for the expansion of an imperial presidency. That's where Donald Trump is trying to take America right now. And emeka. That's why we're seeing some conservatives actually speak up and speak out for good. And just pointing out as bring it back down to ten feet versus ten thousand feet. There are people getting paychecks today with zero on them for working two weeks. Conservatives not in lockstep you're talking about behind the president gel to clearing a national emergency for the wall. The Wall Street Journal editorial board writes this morning that it would strain the limits of his executive authority. He did that the editors of the national review. Call it. Another unwelcome step in America's long March toward unilateral government by the executives. Eric Erickson tweeted when the next democratic president. Declares a national -mergency over gun violence and takes executive actions to Kerr tail gun purchases. You can think the people urging Donald Trump to do the same with regards to the border, Texas, congressman MAC Thornberry, the top Republican on the House Armed Services committee said I am opposed to using national defense funds for anything else and several prominent Republican senators spoke publicly against the idea. I don't wanna see a declaration of national emergency. I think that's a an action that would be taken in the most extreme circumstances advise against that as a bad precedent? Even if the president's got thority to do what advice against it? Tomorrow, the national security emergency might be climate change. So let's seize the fossil fuel plants or something. Susan Dell purse, yo. There obviously are some people were speaking out, but I just want to step back and imagine the thoughts of people who live in Puerto Rico who have family. They're hearing the president potentially moving disaster relief funds from places like Puerto Rico to build his wall that most people don't want. I mean, this is incredible. At this point the way, he's running over people with a lack of care or humanity. And he shown over and over that he doesn't have that humanity. And there is a real crisis at the border one that he created their parents and children's still separated there are people who are not being processed properly because at a point of entry Lee seeking amnesty legally because this president wants to lessen the amount of judges there as a deterrent. So people are basically in these horrible camps. There is a crisis for for millions now Americans who will because of those eight hundred. Thousand people who will not be getting paychecks today. And I just can't help to think that every time. There's people involved the president just shows he has no heart. He has no empathy and to how men's point he's absolutely right. The president is creating a has a political emergency in his trying to find using the national emergency is a way to get himself out of it. And I hope more and more Republicans do speak out about it and join a lawsuit. If he does do it because the one thing that I find so shocking or all these members of CONGRESS Republicans who are willing to see their most important thing that they have which is their influences a legislative leader to the president. It's just it goes to Joe's earlier point about why the publican party is just falling apart because you have a bunch of people who are throwing away their principles and not willing to stand up for what's right? They're just trying to avoid a primary. They seating their power on Capitol Hill, there seating our power there seating trae article one power there seating constitutional power. They're undermining this constitutional Republic, and the checks and balances that have kept us going for over two hundred and forty years, and Rick I wanna follow up on a point that Erik Erikson made yesterday on Twitter that John. Hi, almonds made that that other people have been making that is as it's all about precedence. If if Donald Trump can declare a national emergency on a phony issue where the facts don't even back him up. Then what happens that a democrat gets elected in twenty twenty and there's another mass shooting at a high school and we're seeing images of children being carried out of their classrooms out of their biology classes out of their English classes with bullet holes. All over them. What would stop a democratic president from declaring a national -mergency and seizing military style. Weapons. What would stop the next democratic president from shutting down coal power plants? Like Marco Rubio said because of the national emergency the imminent threat of climate change. What would stop the chief executive from declaring that the supreme court was was packed illegally by Mitch McConnell? So we're going to have to expand the supreme court from nine members to twelve members immediately. What would stop that? It's a rhetorical question. Go hoping a moving Joe that we would never elect a democrat or Republican ever again who would use declaring anational -mergency for political purposes. And the reason, you know, it's political is because what he's saying is I will I'm contemplating declaring it a national -mergency. So that's the first giveaway. I'm. Contemplating over several days of national -mergency. But it's contingent upon what Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer do right? So the circumstances which national emergency would come about where the president would would rightfully declared a national emergency would have nothing to do with what the leaders of the opposition party are whether they're going to do it or not do it. I'm glad John holliman. Brought it up. I hesitate to bring it up at nine of them firm ground. This is a step toward martial law. That seems rather extreme and I don't think the clearing national emergency is declaring martial law. But it does it brings us in that direction, and that's a very dangerous precedent. And so I asked my fellow conservatives and Trump supporters who who support what Trump wants to do on the border, and by the way, Democrats share that same as far as I can tell I don't know anybody doesn't want border security. The question is whether a wall works and the president has broken a fundamental promise. Which is he? Said Mexico pay for the wall. He said that they were going to write a check he did actually say that. But here's he goes further. And he says that I'm going get Mexico now, the pay wall pay for the wall indirectly through a great trade deal. So first of all the trade deal isn't even an acted. It has to be it has to be ratified by the Canadian government, the Mexican government and the United States government before it can be an inactive. But let's give him the benefit of the del. Let's suppose that it is an acted and the and there's no provision in it to provide any money for the wall. But let's suppose it grows the economy, which conservatives are we believe it, we grow the economy more revenue comes into the government, right? All that revenue that comes into the government. That's American taxpayer money. That's not Mexican money. So what Donald Trump would have his supporters believe is not only are we going to pay for the wall up front with a five point seven billion. He wants now we would pay for twice, and Joe I just want to bring this all back to why we're here as we sit here tomorrow, it will be the longest reach tomorrow night. When we will at this point will be the longest shutdown in government history as we're talking about being on the brink of the declaration of a national emergency over manufactured crisis. Remember why we're here was less than a month ago? There were reports all over the place, including on the cover the New York Times, it said, the president was great a walk away from his border wall that he said he just didn't think he'd get it done. He saw that he heard from people like, Sean, Hannity and Rush Limbaugh. He heard from Ann Coulter. Who said if the president doesn't get his wall he will be quote joke. President who scammed the American people. This is a reaction to criticism. He heard from conservative some conservatives. And now here we are on the brink of what he believes is a national emergency after he had a deal. It's a great point after he had a deal that Republicans and Democrats come together on and he right read on right? They were ready to move forward. And then he heard from Rush Limbaugh an and Coulter. And so here we are. All this time later and make the impact. Oh, my Lord the impact it's not only having those employees. But even if Donald Trump and Republicans wanted to look at this cynically the impact it's having on their approval ratings, just devastating and imagine if he does declared national emergency, and that struck down by the court, imagine how bad that's going to look for him because the court will lay out in black and white why this is not a national emergency. And also how the president can't say I'm gonna declare national -mergency if I don't get my way in the Goshi Atienza's. This is a guy that wrote the art of the deal. I mean, this is more like the art of the steal. He's trying to steal this issue away. By declaring a national emergency meek. It's not going to happen. If he does it the chords will strike him back again. That's another huge exercise in branding for him. It's disturbing here. This is just a couple of miles from here from where? This is a tunnel. This is the second tunnel that we have located. This is an area that we actually have wall. Seems seems like they were learning something there about the wall that was tunnels actually the wall. Mr President just letting you know in public during your own dog and pony show with your department of homeland security director, right there that your wall ideas, really stupid. Yup. That was a round table discussion with border officials yesterday who actually know how things work there. President Trump being shown that tunnels had been dug under already existing walls Trump made several carefully orchestrated appearances at the border that one didn't go very well aimed at dramatizing what he calls a crisis surrounded by border agents and contraband, including at that roundtable discussion with just mentioned where sees stacks of heroin meth guns and cash were prominently displayed yet as the New York Times points out quote that display of drugs weapons, and cash was mainly the product of law enforcement action stopping criminal. At international bridges were most drugs are smuggled and conventional ports of entry law enforcement officials boasted of apprehending criminals who had built a tunnel. The money was taken from a suspect who had overstated visa. Steph wrote guy for the Atlantic James fellows in his latest PC dives into three main points to remember amid the ongoing government shutdown James, this is just a wonderful piece. I I it's it's exactly what Americans the type of peace Americans need to read. And maybe it's just the southern Baptist in me. But all preachers stick to three points. And they start out by telling you what those three points are then they preach. And then they give you the three points again at the end. But now, this is wonderful you break it down to three realities that and then tell people if they want to hear more read on unfortunately when the servant was going. I had to stay in the pew. So I just get points and leave but I wanted to read on here. And I want to I want to. I is sort with reality too. Because I think it's so easy to forget that for two years, Donald Trump and his Republican party had an absolute monopoly over Washington, DC, all all the levers of power. And yet they never once made a serious move to fund this wall. Exactly. And you can contrast that with the things it was clear that the president and his congressional Jordi in both houses really cared about. Because there's of the things they would do anything to pass we had not that one go that Brett Kavanagh confirmations. As you recall. We had the tax cut that went through. We had the Neal Gorsuch confirmation. Those you could tell really really mattered to the powers and controlling everything to make them happen by contrast during that same time. There was never any effort to get this wolf funded to have the kind of emergency or crisis talk. We're having now. So that was one just sort of market test of did this really matter. No, it didn't matter to them when they had the power to do something about it. And it's just become a political embarrassment as you were saying before because Donald Trump has been ridiculed by some of his right wing opponents, and and to your point commentary, magazines, Noah Roth, and pointed out a few examples of how conservative Republicans not only. Didn't go along with the wall plan, but actually were hostile to it Senator John Cornyn stood next to President Trump yesterday less than two years ago. We told CNN, quote, I don't think we're just going to be able to solve border security with a physical barrier because people can come under as Mika was saying around it and threw it Lindsey Graham now asking the president declared national -mergency at the border, spins billions on the wall. But in March of twenty seventeen Graham said the border wall has probably not as smart investment. And also last year the Wall Street Journal found no Republican lawmakers. No, Republican lawmakers from southwest borders Seitz who supported Trump's funding requests to start the construction of the wall in July twenty seventeen thousand dodge to vote on funding. The wall two months later USA to survey USA today survey found that less than a quarter of congressional Republicans would endorse border wall funding, and James I actually could go on and on and on. On there. So many examples of that hostility, but we don't have to go back to two years ago. Your first point I think is equally effective, which is hey, let's just go back a week or two they were fine. Just a week or two keeping the government open. Yes. You go back actually to December eighteenth. And that's when all the newspapers reported that on a voice vote where there was no no sort of recorded opposition the entire Senate under Mitch McConnell had passed the kind of clean funding Bill that we're talking about. Now, the said, okay, let's keep the rest of the government going, and we'll worry about the wall later on. And Senator John Cornyn of Texas was saying we have every indication the president is behind this. And so December eighteenth that was the state of play December nineteenth is when and colder. Rush Limbaugh, Steve Doocy. The Fox News apparatus apparatus start saying, oh, what a concession what a cave in. This man is joker. This man is weak. And so it was not anything that change in realities. Just this mockery of whether. Donald Trump was a strong leader that was the ternan policy. And James, it's Willie Geist. The president reportedly has been encouraged to use the term crisis again, and again, so that he can walk himself up to calling this a national emergency. You've studied a lot of presidents over the years, you know, history. Well, what are your concerns about a precedent? If the president doesn't fact go down that road and declare national emergency. There have been many progressives and Democrats online facetiously some, but some just rhetorically saying great. So we'll do that for climate change. We'll do that for gun action. What are your concerns? If the president does do that. I think all the discussion you've had so far. There's our points out that if this were taken seriously the dangers that would lead to in a way, the worst obligation implication is that Trump is doing this cynically assuming that this is a way out of a box canyon these in. Now, if he assumes that a crisis or emergency declaration would be then stopped by the court. That's a way out for him. You can say to his base while I. Tried really hard. Just one of the quick point. If I if I can if you compare the make believe of the Genesis of this crisis with the real effect. It's having right now on hundreds of thousands of families and on businesses and on science and on air, traffic control and on the securities and Exchange Commission. I don't recall anything in my long repertory experience or the contrast between real world harm. And this fantasize shadowboxing motivation has been historically this Jimmy in here. I ask you this question. We, you know, a close observer of these matters. And this is a topic of great interest on this show. I mean, the moral rot and ideological rod in the Republican party has this is not the first time we've seen it. We've watched it happened over on the fold over the last two years, and you could argue with actually was the thing that gave rise to Trump in the first place. But is it not the case? I've always thought that as bad as they are at some point the political calculations come into play if you're on the hill and there's going to. Art to be cost. Usually, it's the cost the political costs associated with a shutdown the drive people to the table. What is it right now about this Republican party that makes it not just thrall to Trump, but seemingly immune to the normal laws of political physics that at and political self interest that drive people to the table kind of regardless of of what else is going on. I think that is the question that historians fifty years from now it'll be wondering about in alarmed way about this era, but it just is a sunshine mid that if Mitch McConnell and his colleagues were feeling uncomfortable enough about this. They could obviously change it. They can re pass them resolution. They did three weeks ago. So there is something about McConnell, and the people around him that make them think that it's better to stay on this ship as it heads unknown destinations. But it is at the cost of people who are not being paid and the rest of the country. So that's a long way of saying. I don't know. I share your question. James I want you to get to your third point because it's equally important. Tell tell us the third point. So my third point is that there really is not any crisis except number one the political one for Trump. And of course, the humanitarian crisis the people who are being trapped by this. I I did my long cover story for the Atlantic about the border in nineteen eighty three, you know, during Ronald Reagan's first term, and I was traveling all around the border, and even then you had the idea of fences and certain populated areas. You had other parts of the border that were too big defense. You had you know, he'll copters you had sensors that have evolved and compared from that time to this the border has become more under control. You ask anybody who lives near the border who follows these movements over the last decade has become a more stable more manageable more less weld west situation than before. And as you pointed out the things seized by the cops and displayed we're at airports and bridges. So if Trump wanted a fantasy world Trump could say look how well things are going under. Me, you know, crossings or going down that branches are going down. So the the objective situation of the border is not a crisis. The crisis is a political one James final question. I just want you to reflect actually on what's happened since you worked like Dr Brzezinski for Jimmy Carter. President Carter was the first to declare a national emergencies based on the seventy six act, and he used it very sparingly. In fact, only in response to very dramatic events in Iran of you, what do you share some of our concerns that whether it's a Republican president or a democratic president the continue eroding of article one powers poses a real threat door constitutional Republic, certainly and there's been a chronic low grade version of this for decades, which is what I called Atlantic article the chicken hawk phenomenon. Congress never won. To take responsibility for proving military action. So they of seed this the president more and more. But these stepwise functions of saying, okay, I'm going to aggregate this and that power that's been a danger for two hundred plus years in a more cute one. Now, I can say that the Carter administration deliberated so carefully with its Justice officials in which national security officials, and it civic officials saying if we do this what will it mean for our success over next successor for removed? I think most presidents were their different political views and their different inclinations have said this is a serious step. We may be taking you don't get the sense that Stephen Miller and Trump or having that conversation now. All right James follows. Thank you very much. People should check out his latest book our towns of one hundred thousand mile journey into the heart of America. Absolutely. Coming up. All right. Welcome back to morning, Joe. It is Friday January eleventh along with Joe Willie and me we have national affairs analyst for NBC news and MSNBC John Hellman MSNBC contributor. Mike barnicle is with us and joining the conversation democratic Senator come LA Harris of California. She has do books out the truths. We hold and American Journey and children's books. Superheroes are everywhere. I love it. Welcome to the show on board. You we we want to talk to you about twenty twenty politics. But first, let's talk about the issue at hand in Washington with so many federal employees getting paychecks today with a big fat zero on them. What is it gonna take to end this shutdown? What's it gonna take to push Mitch McConnell over the edge, and perhaps get them to cut a deal? And if the president cuts a deal on on dreamers. A strong one would that be a way to ending the shutdown? Well, I make. Let's let's put all of this in context. Right. The the president at this point is holding the American people hostage over his vanity project. That's what's happening. And this is a crisis of his own making. I I find it. Outrageous. And it would be fascinating if it weren't potentially so destructive to sit back and think that he's talking about issuing an emergency order of over a crisis of his own making the crisis. Here is that we have a president. And I'd states was putting politics above the needs of the American public. And and that's where we are. And I hope that all of us who have taken an oath to act on behalf of the people we represent with step up and step up and speak out on behalf of the American people. We are talking about the TSA people who are responsible for paying attention to national security and making sure that we are safe. We are talking about FBI agents who are furloughed. We are talking about people who have dedicated their lives to working on behalf of the American people in the interest of public safety. So the irony here is that this president is talking about a wall as because this is going to keep out so-called terrace, which we know is not true. In the interest of public safety when each day is choking, the very people who are responsible for actually making sure that we have public safety everyday as Americans. It's gracious Democrats, an ex should Democrats and Republicans at this point be meeting on their own should be they tried to find a way around the president. Can there be some unity, and at least agreeing that crisis is a word that's being misused and this shutdown has to end, I think, you're exactly right. The United States. Congress should recognize the crisis that actually is at play right now, which is a crisis of leadership, and whether there is a void in a vacuum in particular. Then we should be compelled to step up. No question. There's no question. So Senator this is actually more specific problem for you and your state because the New York Times is reporting this morning that President Trump is looking and asking if he can divert emergency funds away from your state recovery for from the wildfires in northern California to take thirteen point nine billion dollars allocated for hurricane in wildfire relief and have the army corps of engineers, take that money and use it along the. Order. What's your reaction to that idea? Again. It's outrageous. And it's really it's it's it's sad to be honest with you, and I say this because I've traveled to Puerto Rico after that island was devastated by natural disaster. I went to paradise California. And I met with the families. The fires were still the smoke. You could it was in the air, and I met with these families who will never be able to return to a home. They only knew I met with firefighters when I was in paradise, California. Who as they were fighting fires knew that their homes had burned down. This is these are the real stories behind this political manipulation that is happening, and it is absolutely irresponsible. And it is not only irresponsible, and we can sit back and talk and drink our coffee about oh, this is outrageous. It's actually harmful on a daily basis to real people who have a right to believe that their government and its leaders will act in their best interest and not in their selfish interests. And that's what's happening. And it's a it's a farce. It's a farce because this is all happening in the so-called interest of public safety. Well, what about first responders? What about people whose lives have been devastated by natural disasters? They should be are concerned. Not to mention the fact that you wanna talk about throwing around five billion dollars. The American public would live to love to see those five billion dollars put into building up roads and bridges that are falling apart. Into money that we need to to infuse a system that maybe would would allow for the first time affordable childcare for working families. There's a lot we can do with five billion dollars instead of a vanity project. Let's be constructive than we've identified the problem. We know who it's hurting right now. Those paychecks won't go out today. What's the way out of this? We've asked a number of your colleagues over the last few days, the president says five point seven billion dollars or bust. I'm not moving your democratic colleagues Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer said you're not getting five point seven billion dollars in most Democrats, and progressives would agree with that position. So how do we get out of this? Up. We have to speak up. So I'm going to give you as an example, something that just comes to mind when this administration created a policy of ripping babies from their mothers and fathers arms. People spoke up and put the pressure on the administration saying this is not reflective of our values of our mores. And what we want to see in terms of the role of our country when it comes to people most in need people have to speak up. There is power in that there is power in elected members of the United States, Congress speaking up in the interest of their constituency and the American public about Republicans. I'm talking about every Republican senators put pressure on the president. He might buckle on the five point seven billion. I think that that. Yes. I do. I do I do believe that my Republican colleagues are respected by their constituents. I do believe that all of us in a position of elected leadership, the people who elected us, and even those who didn't look to us to give them some idea of what's going on with their government, and they pay attention. When we tell them what's happening. And when we are honest with them, and when we speak truth, and they listen, and this is still a democracy Willie. This is still a democracy. And I do believe the people's will and their voice will be respected, but we have to encourage it. And that's that's the responsibility of a leader. This is what's going on guys? Let me tell you what's going on behind the scenes there is that rhetoric. And then there's what's really happening. And there are some Republicans who were star. Going to speak up. Others like Lindsey Graham has we pointed out earlier encouraging the president to declare national emergency long overdue. Hey, Senator let's talk about a national crisis in Los Angeles. A potential teaches strike nine hundred schools has been delayed until Monday eighty percent of the children in those schools live in poverty on Santa part of the element of the debate over potential strike is the cost of healthcare for teachers some teachers receive lifetime health benefits along with this. Spouses, the cost is enormous. So this is not just Los Angeles. This is all over the country the national crisis that no president. At least President Trump is not address from the Oval Office is the rising cost of healthcare. Eighty percent of children in one school district living in poverty, that's not unusual with like no shot for your future or the future that had. That's right. What are we going to do? Well, you know, I think that part of what we have to acknowledge is a very uncomfortable truth, which is that we are a society that pretends to care about education, but not so much the education of other people's children. And we need to be honest about that we have allowed our public education system to actress. To your point. I am a beneficiary of public education when I was in public schools and elementary school in California. It was ranked as one of the highest in the country because we were putting the resources into supporting our teachers in recognizing their value and paying them commensurate with their value. We were putting resources into the classroom knowing that that is going to be the best indication of what our future will look like in terms of our economic health in terms of our standing in the world and we've fallen short, and it has to be a policy priority on a national level to your point as well as on a state level on a local level to be how do you explain the difference between race and class the argument in schools about how some kids make it and some kids don't is a long conversation. You wanna sit back I'm happy to have it. There's a lot to talk about on both pieces in both are absolutely relevant to what we see as outcomes and also not only outcomes, but will. What yet what we actually are putting into the system. I'll I'll credit former governor Jerry Brown, and I'm a huge fan of the current governor Gavin Newsom, but Jerry Brown actually a few years ago created a system in California where even local control, and in particular changing the factors that we consider in terms of what we put in terms of resources into school district factoring, for example, the number of children who are in the school district who are in the foster care system, factoring, for example, the household income of those families and zip codes, I'm going to tell you might got me we can get into some real detail here. I think so much public policy would be better. If we started to really factor in zip codes. In terms of how we distribute resources and the beauty of it. I'm really going to get into detail, which I talked about in my book is also that right now in terms of public policy in our country that we can get into that level of detail because we also have the technology that allows us to collect large amounts of data that's called big data and analyze it. In a way that we could be so much more effective with the distribution of limited resources, and I would start with public education Joep nam come. First of all we want to talk about your book. Ruling I make side. Can't way. On the show because you wanna talk about both books. That's been waiting for months and months. Good. And superheroes or everywhere unless they're women. All it's always wanted to talk about that said, we're going to talk about that in a second. This Joe, I'm ready think. We're talking about it in the second. I question is there's been an awful lot of talk about you running for president. How how close are you to making that decision? I don't think it said. Okay. Well, then hurt shy. Just. Look we care really night his transactions not working we care too much. But okay, that's fine. Okay. We'll take the pain and continue through more importantly, I want to ask you though, if you decide to run for president. I want to ask you the Roger Mudd question that he asks to Ted Kennedy that Ted Kennedy couldn't answer really his presidency from day one. And that is why would you want to be president? Because I believe our country wants and needs leadership that provides a vision of the future of our country in which everyone can see themselves in which everyone can see themselves. And so let's start from that. And then think about what we need to do to speak to all of the people of our country to ensure that we see them to understand. We don't need to accept false choices in terms of how we approach public policy. I'm a career prosecutor, I've spent my entire life in almost focused on public safety. We can do that and also focused on issues like what we need to do to build a healthy economy. We need to also recognize that right now, we aren't an inflection point not only in the history of this country. But the world, you know, there's been so much focus, especially among the political pundits start island about, you know, the significance of twenty sixteen and what would have been different certainly a lot would have been different. But what would not have changed is that we are still a world globe? That is in the midst of an. Industrial revolution. Will you're seeing. Ascending and descending economies. We are seeing shifting populations for a variety of reason reasons, including what we need to talk more about which is climate change. There was so much change happening in the world. And for the question, I think for us as a country is where do we want to be in this moment? And where do we want to be in the near future, and we need to claim our position, and we need to start thinking about that. And that involves thinking about what are we doing to prepare the workforce for the jobs of the twenty first century? What are we thinking about in terms of recognising that some people will applaud China for its efficiency and effectiveness, and maybe even point to it as the new model of economic power. But one of the things we have always prided ourselves on and is a source of our strength as we have been in economic power that understands that Kannan should coexist with an equal commitment to human rights and a quality and freedoms these are the issues that are being presented to. Our country today. So let me think about but I can touch. And. I'm just gonna get to that. Because that's really why your hair. I just wanna fuck up on this last question. And then we're going to get. You know for those of us that have been following this before too long and been connected to Washington for four too long. And we saw the forty second president impeached. We saw the forty third president come in. And he campaigned as UniteR not a divider, and in fact, and you talk to people in Texas, George W Bush worked very well with Democrats in Texas, Barack Obama the forty fourth president had that remarkable speech in Boston when he said, I don't see a red America. I don't see a blue America. Icy one America, and then of course, another eight years of of divisive divisive presidency, not blaming Bush are Obama. I'm just saying they couldn't figure out a way to crack that code. And of course, now, we have Donald Trump if you run for president, and you were the forty sixth president, how do you bring this country together? So. So people. In Tuscaloosa, Alabama, or are in into pecans and think that you were there president every bit as much as somebody on the Upper West side of Manhattan, or in San Francisco, so it has to be because one knows in their core in their being in their soul, and in their heart that the vast majority of us as Americans have so much more in common than one separate sense. You have to know that, you know, it's an interesting thing. There's there's inference that in a in a in a place where there is a diverse. There's diversity in diverse populations. There is some suggestion that where there is diversity. We cannot achieve unity think of it almost as a mathematical formula. Right. Diversity cannot equal unity. Well, I was suggested and actually propose at different mathematical formula diversity plus x equals unity, and the X is commonality. We will remain a diverse country. That's part of our strength and beauty to your point the origin. The story of origin of Topeka Kansas versus Manhattan is very different industries that that rose and empower those communities are very different not to mention what we could talk about in terms of racial diversity class. Diversity all of those other things we are diverse by nature, and that is a source of our strength. It is a mistake. However to suggest that in that diversity. We don't have incredible common priorities and values, and here's how I think about it. As an example when people wake up at three o'clock in the morning, or you can call it the witching hour in the middle of the night with that thing that's been weighing on them when they wake up in a cold, sweat when the vast majority of us wake up thinking that thought it is never through the lens of the party with which were registered to vote. It is never through the lens of some demographic upholster put us in and for the vast majority of us when we wake up thinking that thought it has to do with one of just a very few things are personal health. The health of our children our parents for so many Americans. Can I get a job keep a job pay the bills by the end of the month? The vast majority of us have so much more in common than what separates us, and we have to reject these powerful voices that are trying to so hate and division among us. And I believe the way to do it is to recognize the truth about who we really on and to speak to that truth. Well, that's a perfect segue to book the truths. We hold think talking about. This is actually at a time where the truce is is being put in question every day on the president United States much of the book is framed around your mother and your story. How much of your story prepares you for public service to think especially at perhaps even the highest level of it. So thank you. And you I think most of us appreciate the impact that our parents have had on our lives. And I in particular, my mother, you see a picture of my parents when they were married. My mother had a very profound impact on who. I am and she was all of five feet tall. But you would have thought she was seven feet tall. Her whole goal in life. She was a breast cancer researcher was to raise her two daughters and end breast cancer. And I was raised in a community of people who who lived and believed and taught us that your life has to be on one level or another and service of others. And the critical point about how I was raised as that that to be clear that this is not about a charitable pursuit. You don't do it. Just because oh, I have a little extra to give. So I'm gonna just dole it out at art lovely and wonderful because I'm so benevolent and give a little bit of what I have to get. No. I was raised within understanding that it's a duty daughter of immigrants. Yes. And that it is a duty that we each have to each other. And that in many ways formed my life, I chose with that kind of calling if you will or with that spirit to go to law school. I wanted to be lawyer. I my. Arrows growing up with Thurgood Marshall and all those folks. And and then I decided to become a prosecutor because I believed that there were vulnerable and voiceless people who deserve to have a voice in that system. And also because I hoped from within the system to do what I could in terms of reforming the criminal Justice system, so Heilmann so. I'm gonna ask you a question. That's not directly about the book. But did you read the book, I read art, I apply? Sped read through this thing index. Right. That was very quick. Right. So there is a there is an index. Like, you have to look and see if you names not in it people won't read it looked. I looked to. Thirty seven times in the book. So it's worth reading. Here's my question is the woman who wrote this book is sits on the Senate Judiciary committee next week is we're going to begin the process of confirming. A new attorney general who has written some things as a private citizens expressing a lot of skepticism doubt criticism of the special counsel someone who's not been meeting with a lot of your democratic colleagues. I don't know if you've met with him or not. But tell me what your attitude is. I know you're not going to say you're going to prejudge it. But just what are the kinds of questions you want to ask him in? What do you think your your your recommendation your vote for his confirmation or not what are the things on which that will turn? One I to your point point of the question and all that we know just as a public matter. I am interested in knowing what he believes we're the incentives for his nomination to be the next attorney general of the United States. Did he believe that it was important for him to write letters about special counsel? And if that's the case that's troubling. And I worry about that. Because as a former attorney general of the state of California, and is again, someone who's focused on these issues Mike for most of my career. I would hope that the motivation would be to do the work of Justice to make sure that that it would be important for me sitting on the Senate Judiciary committee to make sure that that he is motivated by the right inappropriate interest to lead the United States Department of Justice. So those are part of my concerns. I'm also going to be curious frankly about his position on what the department of Justice has done in the last two years under this administration. And because there are so many big things and. Stories that pop every day. I think we've lost sight of what quietly is happening in this administration in so many of its agencies, including the department of Justice intend to focus on that as well full up super-quick on one thing, which is do you think that if he gets confirmed, which is likely to given the party, the nature, the partisans split in the Senate, do you think there's a case on the base of what we know already for him to recuse himself from managing the Muller. I there's a good argument to be made that he should recuse himself. Yes. Senator Harris before we let you go. I want to just ask you again. I know you're not going to be clear candidacy here we got to. Let's be clear your kin. We'd be happy. Oh, special got you might run last night. I understand he got there. But let me just ask you as a we can speak hypothetically. But if you were to run for president, what would be your posture to President Trump is there is this kind of debate inside the Democratic Party about how you handle up. No one questions that you could handle them. We've watched your career. We bought question James Komi, and Jeff Sessions, and rod Rosenstein, and very public settings. But this new class of Democrats who've come in have gone with a full frontal posture. You know, the language we've heard from from certain members as well. But we've sent that. Also, let's not forget the language we've heard from longstanding members in the last twenty four hours. Yes without question without question. But we watched sorta I'm thinking back to the two thousand sixteen campaign Marco Rubio sort of tried to play Donald Trump's game and use insults, and those kind of things and it just didn't work. What would be your posture to a President Trump policy is an entirely different question. We know where your disagreements are there. But how would you handle them? Would you fight him retort? Would you use the kind of language we've heard in the last few days? Candidly, my focus would be if I were going to run would not be Donald Trump, you'll be the voters and the people of our country they deserve. I believe to hear from anyone who wants to be a leader. They deserve to hear from any one of us who puts ourselves out there how we are going to be relevant to their lives. And I believe that should be the focus of the conversation. And to the extent that it would invariably bring up what the administration has done or not done. Of course that is relevant. But I believe that the motivation for the conversation and the focus of the conversation should be. How are we or whether we are relevant in the lives of people who are living everyday who expected should trust that their government is thinking of them and not of ourselves. So that would be my motivation. All right, Senator Kamala, Harris, it's great to have you on the show. Thank you so much obeying on. Thank you. The new books to books are the truths. We'll and American Journey there. A children's books. Superheroes are everywhere. Thanks very much. We have been much more. You're watching morning, Jim. We will be right back morning. Joe? Willie Geist here. If you like the long deep dive conversations on morning Joe every day. I think you will love my Sunday sit down podcast every week. A new extended unedited interview with another big star with names from Bill Murray. Jerry Seinfeld, and Kevin Hart to China Garton. Claire Foy me lacunas? Mark wahlberg. Ryan Reynolds, Lenny Kravitz, and yes jaylo I could continue name dropping, but you get the idea. You can check out the free Sunday sit down podcast wherever you get yours.

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