Aired Last week 1:09
All Things Considered | WNYC 93.9 FM
Congo's Catholic church challenges surprise win of opposition leader
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Aired Last month 56:25
Black Agenda Radio - 11.26.18
Welcome to the radio magazine that brings you news, commentary and analysis from a Black Left perspective. I’m Glen Ford, along with my co-host Nellie Bailey. Coming up: Russiagate is all Democrats and other members of the War Party want to talk about, but the author of a new book says the whole affair was concocted by the former head of the CIA; a Black activist and writer from Canada cautions that the Great White North has its own history of racial repression and police brutality; and, Mumia Abu Jamal has a requiem for the fading U.S. empire. Dublin, Ireland, was the site of the world’s First International Conference Against U.S. and NATO military bases. The U.S. has between 800 and 1000 military bases around the world, and a military budget that equals all the other nations on the planet, combined. The United States has taken upon itself the duties of world policeman, waging war by military or economic means with no regard for international law. The U.S. is now the main military power in Africa, with an entire military command centered on the continent. Paul Pumprhey is a veteran Black activist and a founding member of Friends of the Congo. He told the conference in Ireland that the U.S. has been exploiting and causing mass death in the Congo for well over a century. For more than two years, the Democratic Party and most the U.S. corporate media have been waging a non-stop campaign to blame Russia for the myriad social and political conflicts that plague the United States. They call their conspiracy theory “Russiagate.” Ron Ridenhour is a longtime activist and author, now living in Denmark, whose new book is titled ““The Russian Peace Threat: Pentagon on Alert.” Ridenhour says there is nothing the U.S. military industrial complex fears more than the prospect of world peace. He says the whole Russiagate affair is a misinformation campaign concocted by former CIA director John Brennan to rekindle the Cold War. Lots of folks in the United States think that Canada is a country of racial tolerance. But Robyn Maynard, a Black activist based in Montreal, Canada, says Don’t believe the Canadian hype. Maynard is author of the new book, “Policing Black Lives: State Violence in Canada from Slavery to the Present.” She says there’s more to policing and repression of Black Lives than just brutal cops with sticks and guns. The nation’s best known political prisoner, Mumia Abu Jamal, reports for Prison Radio on the Twilight of U.S. Empire.
Black Agenda Radio
Aired 4 d ago 14:34
Congo's moment of truth
You know, I certified management accountants worked so well with robots because we both love bowling, karaoke nights, taco Tuesdays. And actually, it's because you can crunch numbers faster than any human being could which means Siham as like meek and set strategy and make decisions faster than we ever could. And that my friend is why we worked together like hand and glove except hand as an office and glove dozen. Yeah. Well, hand has a CNA and glove doesn't so the CNA certification. You've got earn it. Visit CNA certification dot org for details. Hello and welcome to world weekly from the financial times. I'm getting Rachman today. We're looking at a country in the midst of dangerous political crisis. I'm talking not about Britain or the US, but Congo Democratic Republic of Congo held presidential elections last month, which briefly held out the prospect of a peaceful political transition in a country with a tragic recent history, but it appears that the elections have been stone and the country is now once again poised on the brink of disorder joining me here in the studio east Africa correspondent Tom Wilson on the line Africa editor David pilling chum. A lot of the evidence of fraud has actually come from research by the F T. Can you explain what you found? Yep. Suddenly said last week last Thursday to be specific the Congolese electoral commission announced that opposition leader Felix shisha caddy had won the vote defeating the president could be happening success and not of the opposition celebrated. That is a great victory is. It's the first time inferior opposition nita's defeated or one presidential election, and it could have led to the first transition of power at the ballot box. But almost immediately alarm bell started to be raised specifically by the Catholic church, which ran the biggest election observation mission in the country. They had already been briefing diplomats at that point that in fact, a different opposition leader Martin for you had one and the day after the electoral commission announced their results, they came out publicly on the record and stated that the electoral commissions tallies. Did not reflect the information that it had gathered from forty thousand observers around the country. So Mr. for you took that information and petitioned the constitutional court immediately calling for a recount of the vote, and those a lot of reaction among the diplomatic and political sphere in Congo financial times along with two other meteorologists nations then received a data from a whistle blower purporting to be the files downloaded from the electoral commissions sensual vote. Database. We analyze those and found that Mr. for you to one fifty nine point four percent of the vote, according to that data defeating the proclaimed Witter features to Kenny by a massive margin. He anyone nineteen percent of the vote. According to those figures why USA conference because a rod those figures run to forty nine thousand lines of code. I used 'electronic voting machines. Exactly they did for the first time the electoral commission introduce toy voting machines in December. Ironically, the opposition candidate for you to in particular, criticized the potential use of those machines warning that they might be used to rig the vote. The irony is that it seems that those voting machines may deliver Mr. for you do the transparency's now demanded because we're told that the data leak that we've received are the 'electronic tallies that was stored by those voting machines and sent to a central database the whistleblower that we spoke to confirmed there had been downloaded from that database, and then our data analyst here at the F T was able to process them number one. On the way in which the data was presented the volume of the data the orderly way in which the figures had been laid out on the page, the use of commerce separated values all let strongly to the idea that this has been exported from listing system would have been very very hard to Tampa with. But most importantly, we were then able to run that data against the tallies that the Catholic church is observers had made an even though the Catholic churches tallies represented a sample of forty three percent of the vote so not all voting stations. But forty three percent randomly distributed across the country. We found it almost direct correlation with the results from the purportedly. Okay. So you're satisfied that the F T and others have. Now nailed the Lexus effectively being stone. Do you think anything will happen now, or do you think that this fraud in lection, ultimately is likely to stand that is the million dollar question right now? And it's a hugely pivotal moment for Congo. It's probably not helpful to guess. But I think we'll be need to consider the fact that the power now sits with the constitutional court which has to validate the announced results within one to two weeks. That constitutional court was set up by President Kabila it stacked with Kabila loyalists. And so people's confidence that that court would then decide to overrule the electoral commissions decision and either corporate recounts rerun of the election is very very low. It would be unprecedented in Congo. It wouldn't be unprecedented in Africa. The Kenyan constitutional court did exactly that in the last election. But in Congo, people main very skeptical whether that's possible and David I mean, looking bit further back I in Congo has had really a very tragic history. More or less since independence. And indeed the statistics of the numbers of people who've died or lost a lot of direct or indirect in war in Congo already. Staggering on them they are. And I think it's important that to realize that congress had a tragic history, not in a sense dependence. But before independence, I mean, remember this was the position of king Leopold. The second postal position. And it was turned into a giant rubber plantation where farmers who didn't meet their quotas had their arms chopped off. This has been a nation that was brutalized run from the start and had a very difficult birth and said really the modern world of the modern nation state with almost no graduates because even though it was taken over by Belgium as a former colonial Leopold still a very brutalized place. And so yes, it's had a very difficult history. It's a vast country two-thirds the size of Europe with virtually no roads, very difficult to get around. So you have different groups in different parts of the country ready with very little interaction. And there's been lots of militias has been lots of outside interference. There's been lots of interest in Congo because of its vast mineral resources, and so the extractive relationship that Congo has suffered at the hands of the rest of the world has really continued into the modern age, and that is what. Congo suffers from now you've really had in the sense kind of collusion between the elites that control Congo or control bits of it because you can never really control the whole country and outside interests, which have been more interested in congas mineral resources, it's copper an increasingly it's cobalt, which is running our iphones, and we'll run our electric cars. So it's not still essentially the background explanation for why Mr Kabila is unwilling to cede power to somebody who would actually cost him out of infants because there's so much money at stake. I think so yes, I mean, Mr Kabila has been in past seventeen years. I think he's got used to it. I think maybe he could disappear and he'd be fine. But there's a whole entourage around him whose wealth whose position really depends on the patronage networks that he has set up and for them. There would be nothing worse than a genuine change of a thirty. And so I think there's been an unholy. Struggle to stay in power. And if they can't stay in power than to make sure that they can control whoever is in power, nothing that as the backdrop to what's been going on, and Tom obviously the moment, it looks like Martin Luther was the person who won and to a lot of hopes would be invested in if somehow he could emerge as the Victor. And yet Congo has had a history of people coming to power, indeed Kabila's father and people saying well at lost as a political change. And then the next ruler wasn't that much better? And some people have raised question marks about fire, you lose relationship to very rich businessmen. And so on you know, the man what you make of him. All mine to actions with Mr. feeder to date of demonstrated that he seems to be a man of character. He had a career in the private sector for thirty years. He worked for Exxon Mobil for most of that time returned to Congo to start a political career to stop to the millennium was elected to parliament in two thousand six and since then it's been a very staunch and quite an honorable critic of the government's the first time I met him. It was in a tiny political party office with no electricity. He was sitting in the dark shuffling papers doing the typical day to day. Grunt welcome politics. And that is really what he's done for most of the last decade. And he was only really thrust into the limelight in the past twelve months as a potential consensus candidate for this office group of political opponents, and I do believe that that is potentially his strength. And there's no telling what he would be like as the president yet. And we all know the potential of power to corrupt and change us. But the one of the potential opportunities for. Congress. The fact that on coming to power didn't have a huge support base. He was a consensus candidate. And thus he would have to rule and govern in a conciliatory inclusive way David Geffen without some took Leamy. What about the argument that Congo after all these years of war exploitation, and it's huge size that you mentioned is lack of infrastructure, essentially, it's almost ungovernable I suppose that is one way of putting it it certainly a very hard task for anybody. And however Gouda person mutton failure is an I don't know him. So I can't vouch me. But even if he were an absolutely impeccable leader with a good plan, you know, he'd be taking on a hugely difficult task. We also have to remember that to some extent he is representing the people who are behind him, for example, moist consume be who was the governor of ca- Tanga state note, Mr. cocoon big was very close to Joseph Kabila. President until they fell out and some people say that Mr. zombie is a very good businessman. Ran ca tangle well, other say he's pretty much cut from the same cloth. One shouldn't expect too much more from him than others. So all I'm saying is don't hold your breath. Both in terms of the groups who have come forward to seize power, and in terms of the country that they will be faced with because as you've mentioned the has some of the worst statistics in terms of child mortality in terms of longevity and crippled health service and a very poor school system. It's really a very difficult place. I suppose one could say is that half properly governed the only way is up, and there are resources, I mean resources have been the curse of many countries. But that is a wealth in Congo that properly harnessed does provide a basis, of course, it's. The Congo river, huge hydroelectric potential, for example, if you had these leadership you could begin to turn the country around, and it's so big and so important that that could be very influential for the whole continental. So that made the whole southern and central part of the continent, which raises come doesn't it? The question of will waters, the rest of the southern half of the continent regional leads Asians make up on this because it's in nobody's interest to have a massive failed state there is there any sign that they're going to try to intervene, or is it just too much to take on so far the messages have been completely mixed. The starting point would be to say that if any of the regional groups the African Union or the Southern African Development community came forward and demanded on mass recount that would be quite unprecedented in Africa for the African governments to turn normally the policy is we don't interfere in elections unless there have been serious human rights violations for them to step in and challenge. What on the face of dukes like an opposition victory? Anyway, would be unusual that said. Clearly elements within the African landscape who are not happy with what they've seen was particularly mixed messages coming out of South Africa, where there appears to be a split between president Ramaphosa who would appear to be more open to an intervention, according for a recount and members of his foreign ministry who have seemed to side more strongly with the regime in the interest of maintaining stability, we will know much much more after Thursday when Sadak and the other regional groups will meet to the African Union that's going to be an absolutely vital meeting and whatever statement comes out of that will have huge impact. Okay. And find what from you, David. I mean, it's notoriously hard to predict how these things are going to play out. But it looks like this is a new period of instability for Congo, which historically has ended in violence is that still a threat? Yes, I think it is. I mean, certainly we're entering uncertain waters where Mr Kabila and his proxies are very keen to stay on where they're on. Now. All of the groups that maybe have legitimate demands on the presidency, and where you have very mixed seen in the countries around from Angola to Rwanda from the use f Africa Zambia as Tom says, the signaling has been quite mixed to some extent they want stability. But to some extent, they might want a decent transition, and that has been a precedent in west Africa. When you're jemmy lost the election and refuse to go eco S an economic grouping really forced him out with pressure. Now Saddik has been much more reluctant to do that. But this could be its moment. And as Tom says, I think we do really brought them predicting what's going to happen. We have to wait and watch as this unfolds. Okay. Well with that. Thank you very much indeed to David pilling and to Tom here in studio. That's it for this week until next week goodbye.
FT World Weekly
Aired 2 d ago 24:05
The Current Ebola Outbreak in the Congo: A Conversation with Joseph LaFave (January 17th)
This program features interviews with respected healthcare industry experts on current topics of substantial national importance your host for the program is David in Chico, a DC based healthcare policy analyst and researcher. We invite you to comment on the program by visiting the healthcare policy podcasts dot com. Now, here's David welcome to the healthcare policy podcast on the host, David Interco during this podcast discuss. The current Ebola outbreak in Africa with me discuss the topic is Joseph as a journalist covering the issue for news rep Joseph welcome to the program. Thanks for having me briefly on background listeners may recall, the twenty fourteen through twenty sixteen Ebola outbreak in west Africa that infected over twenty eight thousand in killing eleven thousand in a countries moreover in Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone firmly termed Ebola, hemorrhagic fever, and I identified a nineteen seventy six the five currently known you bowl of virus species attack ones mute system, causing extreme fluid loss and can destroy blood clotting leading to internal external bleeding were tally rates vary from twenty to ninety percent the viruses transmitted through bodily fluids. Corpses of a bowl of victims can be even more infectious than those suffering the infection. The current bull outbreak in the Democratic Republic of Congo Congo. Excuse me where the virus is endemic has claimed to data proxy. Forty excuse me. Four hundred lives contain the virus has been difficult by the lack of medical professionals or public health infrastructure in Africa, for example, party twenty fourteen or the outbreak in that beginning that you're like Beria had only fifty physicians or one per one hundred thousand contain the current Ebola outbreak in the Congo has been compromised by violence related to the country's December thirtieth presidential election causing Congolese to flee their country and interrupting the emergency response. Finally, there is currently no licensed vaccine for the virus. So that is background Joseph. Can you tell me what's current relative to the outbreak in the Congo? Yeah. So we're currently looking at this is the second largest outbreak in history, and the largest that the DRC has ever ever seen. What makes this outbreak particularly interesting? It's the first time that the boulevard has broken out in this part of the DRC. So right now, it's focused on the country's eastern border in north key province kind of epicenter at around the city called Benny or Ben I sits right on the border with Uganda and south Sudan of the north and. Well, we've seen since the the outbreak started on one August of last year is that regional violence with these different militia groups, some internally in the DRC a lot coming from places like over the border in Uganda started to make it really tough for healthcare workers to get into the affected areas and used the experimental vaccines. And but more importantly made it a lot harder to track patients and do a lot of educational and outreach. So because of this all the violence around the epicenter, the the outbreak has gone is really grown in size and. The the the world horror the health because Asian says that this current outbreak at this at this rate is going to last for at least six months, and some people are saying that is a conservative estimate. So you mentioned, and I signed my notes as well that with this political violence. There's concern the virus may spread to these neighboring countries, you mentioned Ugandan, south Sudan, have there been cases reported in those countries. I mean has it spread outside of the Congo? Miraculously not yet. Everyone is watching the situation is on a day by day basis waiting for that I pay to show up in the two countries because there's a lot of cross-border transportation that occurs right there in the epicenter. There's I think it's like an estimated eleven in these figures aren't I haven't checked cigarettes. But from last I remember, it was ten and eleven million people transit through that area every year. So it's really it's a really big hub of regional trap. Okay. And since the selection and contention. There of the political situation is getting worse is it stabilizing. I mean, that's sort of compounding this problem. So Suming that improves health workers may be able to better to respond. So what's the status of the political instability? Well, it it interesting. And by no means an expert on the Congolese politics. But you had a a man in power Joseph Kaliba who's been in power for something like fifty nine sixty years and a lot of people before the election were worried that he was never going to give our so they held us election. And these this election was fraught with calls that it was a legitimate or there is sputtering voter tampering. You know, you had some some voting machines. I think there can Shah, and I'm not hunter. percents. Sure about that. But it's voting machines mysteriously burst into flames. You had reports of people seeing ballot-boxes thrown in the trash, and then you had the government say that voting would be suspended in these provinces on the eastern side that have the boulevard to prevent the spread. So then the the people in those regions who thought that their vote was being suppressed by the current regime. Started a riot. You saw a lot of violence. You know, a lot of people taking the streets. And there was a case of in a Bulla treatment center and Benny that was overrun by local protesters and twenty four of the patients absconded from that treatment facility. No, luckily, they were able to trace that attract out, I think all of the patients and most of the patients that were at that particular facility never fully developed the virus. You know, someone who has a bull as be able to to run off. These are people that were kind of in kind of being monitored and being tracked. So right now Khalifa's did not he did not win or his party did not win reelection. This other guy. Sheesh. It's tough ain't pronounce a a Keady Felix hitchike one allegedly won the election. But now people are saying that there's obviously some kind of deal worked out with the Khalib regime and with a shaky because the Khalib regimes party the common front for Congo. Also, call like, the FCC is kind of their party it retained power in the house and their and their legislative body body if two different parties controlling the executive branch of the Congolese government, and then you have a different party that controls the legislative branch. So now people are saying, oh, well, this is a rig setup. You know, they let the Shahidi win the presidential election. But to do that hit or greedy to keep a lot of Khalid his policies in place and the mechanism that is gonna happen through is by. Khalifa's party retaining control the legislature. So, you know, a lot of mistrust a lot and a lot of people from outside the Congo have been saying election's illegitimate. And you just kind of general mistrust from a lot of the population that the election was illegitimate. So that's one aspect of the political situation being factored in to the Abol outbreak. I wrote a story about that. You know, is is is the DRC leadership weaponising is are they turning a bull in their political weapon? And some say, yes, some say, no, you know, some say that they were general or there was a, you know, a clear and present danger to having these polling places open and affected a bull areas and other people said, well, no, it's you know, as long as no one with any symptoms goes in there, and it'll be fine. And. But the other the other aspect of it is they're still regional violence in those in those areas where the virus is spreading. So you have militia groups that are, you know, targeting healthcare workers and targeting civilians, one of the one of the biggest and most active is called ADF the allied democratic forces, and they from Uganda there loosely aligned with Al Shabaab, but not you know, they don't have official. They're not an official offshoot or something but they're loosely aligned. So you've got kind of three different emergencies occurring. DRC at one time. You've got the Abol outbreak. Which is now the second largest in history. You've got a political situation where you've got two different parties controlling the government and people saying the election's illegitimate. And then you got outside militia violence attacking healthcare workers perfect storm as they say. Yeah, I think that's. When the the guy from H W that was his quote was this is the perfect storm. Let's go to. Okay. Thank you. Let's go to where the US is or to what extent the US is. Trying aid or help in this effort. So what attention has the US received or what monies have has the US conveyed World Health or otherwise, what's the what's our federal government's response been. So we actually have teams on the ground and the DRC from both finish bridges even troll control prevention and from the US agency for national development, so CDC in USA. So both of those groups are actually on the ground in the affected areas, or at least they were up until recently their mission. There was to assist the Congolese health ministry with you know, obviously patient care, but their main mission was vaccinating patients that they're vaccinating people that were either believed to have been exposed to a bowl or we're going to be, you know, healthcare workers are those family members who have family member came down with the virus and US teams have actually gone into south Sudan and Uganda and began vaccinating patients or vaccinating healthcare workers along that border region. So they're actually working at three different countries. Both as agencies are also working, you know, a big part of a bull and how. To fight it is to track. It's spread by tracking patients down, you know. Okay. If I knew that patient a lives in a house with four other people. Well, let me gotta go find those for and then find all the people they'd talked to. So that's where the US aid. And the the CDC really comes comes into play where they do a lot of that work on. They also do a lot of educational outreach. You know, a bowl is. Unless you know because these communities have never experienced the virus before and certainly not on at this large scale. You have a lot of people who are relatively unfamiliar with it. And you're on their unfamiliar with how it spreads. And you know, what can be done about it? And you know, even things you don't think about how do you properly dispose of a body? That's you know of a person who's died from a bullet. So do a lot of that education as well. Right. Thank you. And in fact to prevent infection barriers are pretty substantial full body protection etcetera. Let me let me ask Pacific in this. This issue was debated in fourteen through sixteen President Obama did not issue a travel ban. Then I'm assuming we don't have one today or there's not one presently in place. Not that I know of and the last I heard for the World Health Organization. They don't they still don't consider this outbreak threat to global health still. Bill because it stayed in those provinces, and it's out that one epicenter. They don't they really don't consider it a threat to the entire world. But certainly Uganda and south Sudan, or you know, they're they're waiting to see what happens. Okay. And just compare and contrast current administration of the Obama administration the Obama administration actually named and it was crudely termed in a bowl czar. Correct me if I'm wrong this administration has not named such persons. Isn't that correct? Yeah. Not not that. I'm aware of. Okay. Okay. I'm curious to know and ask you and your falling or studying the subject Twix defending affect my success that I follow this. I think I know the answer. But to what extent Vinny has the congress US, Congress addressed or weighed in on this? There. There's actually a a new piece of legislation that just got approved by the by the house of representatives, and that is the pandemic and all hazards preparedness and advancing innovation act of twenty nineteen. So that was to get funding to help the US respond to all hazards response. And that includes diseases and no biosecurity stuff like that. I'm as far as what congress has done to the send money or to give take a more active role in the current outbreak. I I I haven't seen much if anything, you know, there's been a lot of domestic political issues that have taken president over this. I'm gonna go to the fact that a third of the government shutdown and we're bringing a month. So I'm sure that plays into this. Let me ask you did mention their their use of vaccines. However in my. Opening I noted that there is no licensed vaccine. However, there are vaccines with let's just say less than easily identified names, the RV visi e b o V vaccine. I don't think he can pronounce that that are showing effectiveness. What's the status of vaccination or finding a vaccine for this? So yeah, do they have that one that long acronym? Name vaccine, I think Merrick or Merck ever you pronounce it is the one who manufacturers that it it. It's pretty much a they take they take the the vicinity later stomach Titus virus, which is an animal virus. But I think we you know causes flu like symptoms develop in people. They take that. I want you near and they add it, then they ask they add an a bullet Zaire protein into the virus through through bio engineering when they checked it into the patient. You know, obviously works like, you know, like any other vaccine immune system's supposed to fight it right now. It's approved for all the I don't know about approved. But right now, they're deploying it for, you know, frontline healthcare workers in the DRC, south Sudan, Uganda. They're also giving it the people who. Are that first line of I guess exposure user, if you if you and I lived together and you develop the bull, and then I'd be eligible for the vaccine. And then there I think it's also proved for the or not approved but being used for the second tier of exposure. So if I had a girlfriend who lived down the street, and you my roommate developed a bull, I get the vaccine, and then she would get the vaccine. So that's kind of where it's progress right now, it's I think children over one years old over twelve months can receive the vaccine, but I don't think it's approved for pregnant women. And there's been some stories coming out of the DRC about women are showing signs of a bowl or having been exposed to Bulla, you know, giving birth that these these miracle babies that didn't have the virus survived. But for women that are pregnant and are in that that trio of criteria. They they can't receive the by they can't receive the vaccine same you bring up an interesting point. I'm Carrie so the the virus can be conveyed from. Mother to the to the fetus and the newborn is that is that is that correct? Yes. Okay. Something is relevant related to the Zeka problem as we remember. Right. Yeah. Same. Yeah. Same. Transition. Right. Right. Right. Let me let me just ask. And then, of course, just to confirm you mentioned CDC in USA ID's effort last time in fourteen through sixteen the Obama administration sent military personnel west Africa. That's not the case in. This instance, is it now we have we have military assets in the area, but their mission is not a bowler related, you know. There's different Islamic terrorism groups that were actively tracking and fighting, and you know, aiding other countries in fighting Boko haram got al-shabaab yet ISIS west Africa. They go by different names. But so there there is a military private per presence in the area, but their mission is not a bully response. So these soldiers that are over there. Now are, you know, your your special operations soldiers, and you know, somebody more advisory soldiers in twenty fourteen twenty sixteen we sent in military medical personnel there and military support elements that could develop. Nope. The infrastructure needed to, you know, open the big centers and stuff like that. That's not the case for this for this outbreak as far as I know. So my last question may be so this outbreak presuming it's contained within the next six months will have been a year long, and we may approach sadly, upwards of a thousand deaths time with those certainly much less than eleven thousand last go around, but since it is endemic in in the Congo and his spreading and absent a licensed or truly effective vaccine. We're going to see this over and again, are we not? Yeah. I mean a bull is one of those really slippery viruses. Were researchers have a really tough time. Figuring out. You know, how patient zero was initially exposed, you know, there's theories about Bush meat and about, you know, catoon cave and back wanna oh. And but I don't I don't think anyone can say for sure, you know, the thing about that is I don't think we've discovered the ideal host were Bulla. You know, any virus is looking for a host that it can it can live in and have a symbiotic relationship with humans. It's very deadly in in in attends to kill human beings relatives quickly. So human beings, aren't aren't a good host for Mullah. You know, we die. We die too quick. I don't think we've identified whether it be is it an insect. Is it some kind of plant is at a different mammal that is the one who cares virus around most of the time. I it's just something that's been a really. Had a really tough time putting their finger on. Hey, this where a bullet comes from in this that we can prevent it. So you're absolutely right. There's there's no, you know, unless we develop and market a vaccine and give it to everyone else. Just like we did polio is a good chance that we're gonna see another bullet outbreak. What was interesting to me about this? Particular outbreak, though, is is kind of how the political instability and the regional violence have really impeded the ability of the outside humanitarian infrastructure, and and world to come in and help, you know, twenty fourteen twenty sixteen you have, you know, eleven thousand people died, and we and we collectively as as humanity learned a lot of lessons about how we, you know, the p required, and you know, how we track patients how we deal with a mess influx of patients, and there were a lot of lessons learned from that outbreak that unfortunately, we're not able to implement and this outbreak because of the. The the situation on the ground, and you know, we've had different diseases outbreak during wars, you know, especially a hundred years ago. It was very common that you know, more soldiers would die of high. Well are one. Yes. Yeah. So that's not the case anymore, and you know, we have inch. We have systems in place to ensure that when our soldiers go down range, you know, they don't die of disease. But this is really the first time that we've seen, you know, for all intents and purposes, original little conflict coincide with a horrible disease outbreak, and how that relatively small conflict is just completely negating the the outside world response effort. So hopefully, you know, when we get a handle on this humanity looks at this case as an acid test and says, okay, this is this is how we failed, and this is why you know, because like I talked about earlier Bulla. I mean, you know, eleven thousand patients is a lot. But when you look at other pandemics, it's not, you know, not anywhere near to how many the flu kills. But the thing about a bullet is it's very terrifying. Very viscerally scary. But but on a when you look at other diseases, it's not that deadly because it kills so fast. But what I worry about or keeps me up at night is okay. Well, what if the next time something like this occurs in a similar area where they're similar things happening on the ground? You know, what happens next time when that's a new strain of the flu or when that's a new strain of pox that spreads really rapidly. And if ios easier to contract than Bulla, so hopefully, we take the lessons we're learning now DRC about how these little conflicts impede response. And we figure out ways around it. So that the next time has happened for better prepared. Well, well, stated the interaction between the political unrest and the violence that's bread and the interaction of that reality with this disease. Virus outbreak you? It's it's tough to dress one without addressing the other as you note. So maybe you're right. Maybe we'll learn our lesson here. So it is an interesting intersection between public health and whatever military role to reduce political violence. So that Joseph thank you so much time generally pre sheet this overview, let's hope this abates per the world health's guests men and six months in the death toll doesn't reach much greater numbers, and we'll hope for the best. Thank you again. Adamy? You have just heard another edition of the healthcare policy podcast hosted by David Interco to comment on this program or others to see information about coming interviews to suggest a program topic or two here an archive program. Please visit our website the healthcare policy podcast dot com. Thank you for listening. And please listen again soon.
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