1 Episode results for "Colonel Lieutenant Colonel Vin"
They were on the call. Today, they testify.
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Donald Trump I'm ZAC wolf senior writer at CNN and the publisher of CNN's Impeachment Watch newsletter. which you can subscribe to due at CNN dot com slash impeachment? Today I'm pinch hitting for the regular host of this podcast David Challen and a note were recording this in the afternoon noon. So we've already heard testimony this morning from Lieutenant. Colonel Alexander Vin men from the National Security Council Jennifer Williams State Department employees on detail to Vice President Mike Pence but we're still anticipating the public hearings of Kurt Volker. He's the former special envoy for Ukraine and Tim Morrison Morrison vitamins boss at the National Security Council at the time. Luckily I have to stellar guests to help me through all the revelations emerging from this consequential day in a few minutes we'll be talking to David Sanger political and national security analyst and national security correspondent at the New York Times but I I'm joined by my colleagues CNN national security reporter Kylie Atwood. Welcome back to the PODCAST Kylie. Thanks so we've just heard from Jennifer Williams and Lieutenant Colonel Alexander van men. I think he was probably the to the more anticipated of the Witnesses but they are both people who were on the call and by the call. All I mean the call on July twenty fifth between the Ukrainian President Vladimir Zielinski and President Donald Trump. So what did you take. Take away from this morning session where we finally heard from people who listened in in real time to what president trump said the president Celeski. Yeah so they were both on the call and we now have them speaking to the public about what they heard and the bottom line is they both had concerns about what happened on that call and and as as we have all talked about repeatedly at length president trump did ask presidents lunch. Do him a favor and to investigate the Biden's on that call and so however one thing is that Jennifer Williams who works in the vice president's office Didn't actually raise her concerns to the lawyers at the National Security Council at the White House but Colonel Lieutenant Colonel Vin men who is at the NFC at the National Security Council. He said that he did raise concerns about that call and so he was a bit more full-throated in how concerned he was about what had went down He called it inappropriate and improper improper for the president to making a request for Ukraine to investigate a US citizen that being a President Vice President Biden at the time but He also said however that you know there were political implications with the ask that was being made and there were concerns at the White House about leaking out Just because of how political in nature it would be viewed. And I think it's important to know the Jennifer Williams She also thought thought that the call had political undertones to it because of the nature that president trump was asking about something that had to do with his political rival and not something that was consistent with. US policy towards Ukraine. But she didn't raise any concerns about it whatsoever really. She said she thought it was unusual. That there was this political so You know politicalness underneath it. But she didn't like then went to the National Security Council. Lawyer she basically Put it into a binder To give depends before he was gonna meet with Zielinski and that would that was about it. Yeah and she couldn't even say if the vice president had seen Those notes that she put into the binder. She wasn't aware aware of that. But as I said Lieutenant Colonel Vin men Went even further and he said that it was actually something that would be viewed as a demand by hi the Ukrainians and he was pushed on that because the language that the That president trump uses in the calls that he's asking for a favor and so they asked Lieutenant Colonel Vitamin why he would see it as a demand and that's when he spoke about kind of power disparity between trump and Zilenski and he also spoke about the fact that in military culture when a senior asks you to do something it's taken as in order and that was his interpretation Shen of the ask that vice that president trump was making a presence Lonski. This is a really good point and we have so we can. We can play a little sound of him Driving this point I went home. I think it's important to hear him say chairman culture. I come from the military culture when a senior asks you to do something even if it's play in pleasant it's it's not. It's not to be taking as request. It's B it's to be taken an order in this case the power disparity between the two leaders. My impression is that in order to get the White House meeting presidents alinsky would have to deliver. Are these investigations. This is a military guy. Donald Trump is not a military guy. You could sort of hear the wheels turning and Republicans heads maybe commander and chief. You sure he's the community. Ah but a civilian and so when he has ruined Donald Trump asked for a favor. Maybe he means it maybe he doesn't. This isn't pressure is at the end of the story and the Republicans did actually bring up that exact point you know they. They asked Vitamin is it appropriate to cast this expectation on president trump. Because he hasn't served served in the military and vitamin didn't have an exact response for that but he stood by his assessment. And that's really important here and the other thing that Vinnie Vinnie did was paint this picture for us of a moment at the White House in July when July tenth. That's right when the US ambassador to the U.. Gordon Sunland came out to Ukrainians and asked for specific investigations at the White House and it was a really incredible incredible moment to hear him describe because he talked about Ukrainian officials seeing discord among White House officials. Now it's no secret to you and I to to anyone who has covered a White House that there's always discord competition amongst. US officials to see that on display in front of the Ukrainians was really something something that was very very significant especially for vitamin and he also disagreed with what ambassador saw lynn was asking of the Ukrainians Dan and he told Ambassador Song then he told lawmakers this today that Ambassador Song that he told him bathroom stall and it was inappropriate and that his asks had nothing to to do with national security. We've now heard a couple of different You know versions of this July tenth meeting. It's turning out to be one of the more important moments and I it will be really interesting to see what Gordon Sunland says when he gets his turn To talk on Wednesday for so many reasons but this is one of them okay Kylie. We're just scratching the surface here. We've got a lot more to discuss. Plus we'll bring in Pulitzer Prize winner. David Sanger but first this quick break holiday shopping season really is is here and so is your gift giving Solution Omaha. steaks is the perfect gift for everyone on your list. Did you know. Seventy three percent of Americans say they'd rather get great food than more stuff when you ship pasta eggs early. You're really giving yourself the best to give divall peace of mind. They'll get delicious tender steaks and much more four. And it's so easy for you right now. podcast listeners can get the favourite gift package for just sixty nine ninety nine go to Omaha. STEAKS DOT COM and Type Daily D. C. into the search bar. You'll get four steakhouse. Classic six ounce Bacon wrapped filet mignon plus four premium pork chops for Omaha steaks burgers. There's four potatoes AU gratin and four caramel apple tartlets plus right now listeners. Get four more burgers free with each shipment that sixteen main courses verses plus sides and Desert Omaha steaks is a fifth generation. American family owned company. That's been handcrafting. Incredible steak gifts for one hundred. Two years they'll love getting delicious steaks and you'll love getting holiday shopping. Done early order the favored gift package plus four Free Omaha steaks Burgers for sixty nine ninety ninety nine when you go to Omaha steaks dot com and type daily. DC in the search bar. Every gift is one hundred percent money. Back guaranteed remember to create an ad like like this one visit pure winning dot com slash CNN. Welcome back to the daily. DC DC impeachment. Watch Zach Kylie. Atwood is still with me and we're pleased to welcome. CNN political national security analyst and a national security correspondent on at the New York Times. David sanger thanks for joining us. David great to be here Zach. Great to be here with Kylie One of the things that I think people will remember from in this hearing with vitamin in particular is how he is portraying himself you know and beyond reproach as a patriot. He's somebody who fled the Soviet the union with his father to the United States and I thought it was even even more emotional When he was asked to repeat that from his opening statement and then he was asked why he would essentially go up against the most powerful person in the world with this account of why it's wrong for trump to pressure Zilenski and An and it led to this really kind of remarkable moment at the hearing. Let's take a listen. And why do you have confidence that you can do that. And Tell your dad not to worry Arnesen because this is America. Oh this is the country I've served and defended that all of my brothers have served and here right matters. Thank you Sir David. This is a gentleman someone who's Bled for the country. He's been to war and now he's working at the White House And what you see however is the White House essentially trying to undercut him. What does that say to you? What is kind of what should Americans take away from from that moment in this hearing one of the first things that struck Muzak is is that they were highlighting the fact that He is a great immigrant. Story on top of being A soldier and and Patriot. I mean here was somebody that all of his siblings and he had gone into the military they had really adopted the the new country and in his dad. Dad Don't worry about me. He was basically saying the system works in a way it never would've in the old Soviet Union and wouldn't in Russia today and that's a real zinger to the Republicans who are sitting there who a few years ago would have been without a doubt the sort of anti Russia coalition of Congress and now one of the odd flips. We've seen is that. The Democrats are far more hawkish on Russia after the two thousand sixteen election and the Republicans are a little bit confused. Because they don't WanNa let up on Putin but they also don't want to betray trump and that it was something that That vitamin actually brought up with regard to whether Ukraine and this is Donald Trump's conspiracy theory. That you it was actually Ukraine. That was interfering in the twenty me. Sixteen election Then men shot back that the that's actually. What Putin wants you to believe? Well nowadays. What Putin wants you to believe? It's what Donald Trump's own justice department has said they don't want you to believe I mean the one thing that I don't fully understand why the Democrats aren't bringing up every four four or five minutes is that In the summer of twenty eighteen the Justice Department that trump justice department indicted twelve Russian. GRU officers for doing the hack now if they actually believed that there was reasonable and brought that up yeah didn't at one point and if if they actually believe at this point that this theory has got much credence at all you'd think they would have gone back to the justice assist department and asked them to put the indictment in abeyance because they might have the wrong people. I don't hear anyone doing that. The most interesting element of this is that a month ago in Greece. You actually heard Secretary of state. Mike Pompeo who has C. I. A. Director had Said said he was completely on board with the intelligence reports about Russia raised the possibility we needed to do an investigation into Ukraine's possible involvement salvant and he has never explained why he's taking a different position the secretary of state and he took a CIA director. Well the entire apparatus of the US government is behind this bill bar traveling the world trying to drum up. You know he's in Italy. He's in trump's wants him to talk to the Ukrainian president. It's like the entire. This is what happens. When president has a conspiracy theory as they're driving principle they can use the systems of government? You know to forward that I would slightly amend your statement. I wouldn't say the entire apparatus of the US government is here. I would say that slice of the leadership around president. President trump is with it and the bureaucracy. The investigative force in the intelligence community the rank and file State Department. All believe this is nonsense. They've heard the intercepts. They've seen the evidence and they don't believe that part of it even Rudy Giuliani who. I spoke to Last last night I said to me that his own investigation didn't find any any evidence that the server was in Ukraine as the president had suggested in the phone. Call this Alinsky and that that's a good point Entirely you know a lot about covering national security because we've seen them Trump in particular essentially try right attack. Anyone who has taken part in these hearings and they did it. Today with vitamin the White House was tweeting. Essentially about him questioning his another other witness kind of questioning his judgment. He shut that down right away by reading from his own performance review which I thought was really interesting. Trump had attacked Jennifer Williams who was clearly nearly a not a happy witness. She did not want to be there today. She didn't see a lot wrong with this call. Even though she said it was kind of unusual to you know David David talks about how the bureaucracy is. Always in line with trump turning the apparatus of government behind his conspiracy theories. But what we've seen in the hearings. Things are really not a lot of fireworks because you know these. Are you know civil servants telling the truth or at least that's that's you. You know a pretty valid impression. I think yeah and I mean neither of these folks who are before the committee is today. We're very excited to be there. I mean even Lieutenant Colonel Veneman was shaking as he was delivering his opening statement. I mean he was. He was a bit worried and he he did say as you said that he will be fine line. For telling the truth the fireworks really come from the members of Congress were trying to instill A partisan agenda here here and there are fireworks coming from those are who are before the committee themselves. Because they're just there to present the facts and at one point you did have been min saying you know. I just did my job because he was being attacked for certain things like not going directly to his superior when he had concerns about the twenty fifth the call well. He went to the lawyer at the White House because the lawyer had told him to come to him if he had concerned so he did have to defend himself at times. And we have seen seen folks do that But they really aren't going forcefully against the entire trump administration. They're just there to tell their version of what they saw. You know it's Adam. Schiff pointed out his Superior on the National Security Council also went directly to the lawyer. You know didn't go I Take John Bolton who was still national security advisor at the time it struck me that this was a strange line of argument all of us who work in national security journalism analysts have my case probably weekly issues. I need to go take up with our legal department. I pick up the phone and I call my the lawyers at the New York Times You know because it may be an issue that they tell me not to worry about not only the bother my editors with it so it doesn't strike me that it was that unusual that he went straight to a legal department. I'm imagining the lawyers at the New York Times seeing the Colorado who am I. Gosh it's David Sanger again problem child. Okay Kylie David. Thank you for joining me on the daily. DC impeachment watching thanks to our listeners. We've got a new episode every weeknight so please make sure to subscribe on Apple podcasts. stitcher Richard Google podcast. spotify were on whatever. Your favorite podcast APP is and while you're there leave us a rating or comment. It really does help people find the show. We'll tomorrow. Are you interested in learning how great companies grow the download. 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