17 Burst results for "Colonel Kinman"
"colonel kinman" Discussed on The Glenn Beck Program
"Terrible arm. But then gets funneled to another third party, which is running black lives matter as a fiscal sponsor. So if you WANNA give money to black lives matter you can't. You give it to act blue. That has a Pinky promise with this tide center, which is a far left group that is acting as a fiscal sponsor for laws matter you can't give a donation class matter. Have it have it be tax deductible? It's an unusual set of circumstances that if a similarly situated well known conservative group was involved in that'd be called for investigators. Oh my gosh and there should be investigations on either side that would do something slimy as this. Act Blue I think the latest document that I saw shows it about seven percent of what goes into act blue actually goes to black lives matter. So where's the rest of it going? whereas. I you know. I've never seen anything like this I've been. Involved in nonprofit work for twenty plus years and the idea of fiscal sponsorship i. that's something the left has been doing though when you think about it remember acorn. Kind of. The same way they had all these allegedly independent groups that would run. By one central organization and those cases, the tide center which. Is the incubator for the far left and their organizations. Yeah. I did a lot of work on the tides foundation and called many many names. Nobody did anything about it, and now look at the Juggernaut that they that they are any comment on on. You know two hundred, million dollars plus being gathered from donations from homeless people or people that don't have a job. It's an awful lot of money. Isn't it? Dumb? It is a lot of money and again the area political fund raising the report, what they report, and unless someone's willing to get behind the numbers and get behind see the self reporting. this is going to go on not only with act blue, but everyone else and act lose suggests that the reason that they have all these unemployed people as because they're homemakers or they're wealthy and they don't need to report anything other than being. I'm self employed but. You know it highlights the fact that a lot of money sloshes around our political system and despite all these laws for transparency, which I really don't put much faith in any way both principle and impractical span practical issues a practically speaking. it's hard to track all the money's coming from, and so all is concerned about foreign funding. You know there are a lot of easy ways for for national support in our election system without getting caught in an improper way. All right. Let me change the subject. There is a story that I read. well-documented well, source and I am not seeing it anywhere. That the actual whistle blower during the impeachment was Vin man himself Lieutenant Colonel Kinman, was the guy who was on the phone call was disturbed as in his own words because it was going against policy that he agreed with and and had worked hard on and wanted to see pursued. And he'd he went and talked to schiff I understand this, right? He couldn't be the whistle blower because he was on the phone call. So they needed a another guy and he went and told someone about it and said, blow the whistle go to shift go these people and blow the whistle. Is that do I have that right? I think it's I think it's close enough it became pretty clear during the impeachment hearings themselves when he was questioned on it but then men that had talked to the alleged whistleblower that shifts colluded with an properly in my view, you know my concern is always be been that. Either just because someone else is has a national security clearance it doesn't mean you can tell them everything that anything you want just because I if it's classified, they have to have a need to know and if he was improperly sharing the contents of that classified cool eight with his brother or be with his buddy over at the CIA evidently that was the actual whistleblower. who had previously in the White House both under Obama and trump that would have been inappropriate and I've always I've always been I've been highlighting the need that Vincent should be criminally investigated. The whistle blower should be criminally investigated and Therese Schiff was involved in the sharing improperly plus fight information and his staff that criminal investigation should extend into the. House. So here's my frustration. A lot of this stuff tom we've had for months. Now we've known a lot of really damning stuff and it doesn't seem to be going anywhere, and if it is, it's it's going to happen during the election and then what happens after that Yeah the Justice Department It's been asleep at the switch on virtually every major corruption issue here and Durham was appointed for instance in April of last year and it's now. What seventeen eighteen months later? Use My fingers to count. Reside One Plea agreement that was kind of half baked. Just handed to him on a silver platter by the G.. Eight last year. Nothing else no report. Maybe someone's being targeted maybe struck gets I don't know what in many ways it's too late. If he does it now politic politically it's going to cause in mouse Maelstrom. which is unnecessary, and then be as you point out after the election depending on who wins that either Lizard is. So. What happens I mean we have a horribly corrupt system that I wouldn't want a Democrat or Republican to have to go through I don't care who it is, but it is we have seen now a deep state we're seeing it with the CDC. The CDC yesterday we found out is going forward with their their their critical race theory education even though the president has signed a directive that no one in the administration, no one in our government is supposed to be holding those things. They just thumbed their nose up I mean we have a constitutional crisis. because. There's there's no one that has answer. Answering for any of these things WHO's in charge? Much, right I. I've I've been highlighting crisis. It's called. The problem we have is we don't even have self-government anymore you know is it consent of the government when we elect Congress and they don't do anything and Just write checks and keep their eyes closed the rest of the time. Oh, the agencies don't think they're accountable says the use of the President or the American people and depending on WHO's the president the President doesn't act like he's account what we saw that with President Obama, and in terms of the CDC and these other agencies you, there's this casual sedition that goes on it's more dramatic. and It's happening virtually every day I'm sure the is frustrated by it but if I were him in terms of like the Obama gave all the corruption, I would just go declare transparency emergency tell the agencies release everything you have. Stop Stonewalling. For instance, we just got the the documents about the wiped phones by Muller's Team Twenty, seven, thirty, one however you counted. I don't know if you've been able to wipe your own phones but I've never. Out How that could be no I don't know how to do that. Yeah, DOJ's had the document for a year. Year. We'd be Fr- we actually I asked for the information back in December or the beginning at the end of two thousand eighteen sued a year ago. So let's say the clock began went then busby generous. They sat on it for a year. They are still hiding struck page documents they're still hiding text messages. We just sued for vouch email I don't know. I'm not necessarily necessarily because she didn't anything wrong. We wanted to know CDC communications with WHO in China early days of. The Virus to see what the lies were that we were being told, they're telling us, they can't get to the. Until at the only at a rate of five hundred pages a month, which means eight thousand pages will be reviewed and that means we won't be getting them until. Do the math at twenty, twenty two. What's happening what's happening to them for the rule of law? It's a contempt for the rule of law within the agencies and the president's appointees don't give a rat's tail about this transparency they don't, and it's resulting as you point out a real law crisis. So, what is going to have it? We can't continue as a nation. We have no trust in anything we see people getting away with it. We I see reports FBI is looking into the funding of black lives matter and and. And these protests. Guys is not that hard. It's not that hard and it feels like we're looking and looking and looking, and then nothing happens. When is I mean? How do we survive Tom? If nothing is done. Well. It's a challenge in and I say that traditional watches one way for work we Kinda keep the government it seems like it's completely out of control, but we bring it back down to Earth using the rule of law and the accountability of free information, the freedom of Information Act. So there's a an ability to petition the government under our Constitution that we have to exercise more forcefully and more regularly the left is quite adept. At. Getting information out to destroy their political opponents from the government. Here, we want to figure out about the corruption government and judicial watch is often alone pushing for it. Congress has got over Florman, restore itself and certainly the agencies has got to be killed and cut back 'cause the abuses will increase in metastasized the bigger and bigger government gets in my view it's. Taking fifty thousand you. Big Government, big secrecy, big corruption, big oppression they all go hand in hand. And you gotTA, pull it all back. You GotTa curtail the government. Ensure transparency reform and restore the congress and the president and Cabinet Agency heads who take this seriously in my view. Are, like a a waste of time the cabinet agency heads doing their jobs that's that's what they should be do has the heads of the agencies should be Geez. I don't know if I try. I don't know if I trust. I'd like as many is checking on these guys as possible. But the I G are or creature of the deep state, and our experience used both suppress information and target whistle blowers. That's what they are remember they weren't put in there by the good guys are in there by the radical left Gusau needs to control the presidency to keep the.
"colonel kinman" Discussed on Late Night with Seth Meyers Podcast
"So effective is that we not just as as Americans we're more as human beings you wanna believe things you read that that serve your own messaging and so You don't have to be that effective it strikes me to trick someone as long as you're saying what they want to hear what people always want to believe the narrative that they've bought into a and in fact when I was reporting the thing that helped president trump theoretically on Friday. It was really sounding to see how many people who wanted to believe the worst that the intelligence community had briefed that the Russians had a preference which is true and that it was true. It was definitely accurate as opposed to some national security officials. Saying hey this brief forgot ahead of our skis. It was really amazing to see how many people just completely started attacking me national security columnists and commentators. Whatever because people want to believe what they want to believe. There's also just the impetus that people will. People are generally inclined to trust. People generally inclined to believe that the person in front of you is not lying And even if we are being hit with a barrage of lies day in day out. What are the things speaking of that because you did a really nice piece yesterday about The fact that post impeachment Donald Trump Many Republicans When they voted to impeach said that do feel like. This'll be a teachable. Moment for him He. He's deadly out by this definitely learned a lesson. What was the lesson? Well I think the lesson is that he I mean the lesson. I think that he has learned. Is I need to get all the bad people out of my administration. Anybody who's not dis- loyal to me right. Not Bad as they do bad things but bad and that they will tell other people. When I do bad things yes whistleblowers potentially but also anybody who would testify against me or anybody who would theoretically not be one hundred percent loyal and so he has done all these things you know not just escorting people like Lieutenant Colonel Kinmen and his twin brother who had nothing to do with it escorting them the White House grounds and other impeachment witnesses. But there's a guy who the top policy guy at the Pentagon who privately had been saying. No you need to release the money to Ukraine. The money was yeah. He didn't do anything wrong. He didn't even make it public but like he got fired. I mean so anybody that gets in the way of what he wants to do. Even if what he wants to do is against the law he is now having them leave the administration and he's trying to help people who have been loyal like Roger. Stone is a good example. He went after the prosecutors. He went after the judge. He went after the jury forewoman in the Roger Stone Prosecution. He has this perception that prosecutors are bad and bad guys are good and and. I'm starting to thing he might be a bad guy. I think he might just be a bad guy with bad judgment. I think there's some judgment question second again I want to ask this before your days As a as a journalist you start on the Internet you had a job at a very highly revered website. It was revered. It wasn't revered at the time I don't remember well but it was. It was sucked dot com. Yeah and when you say it like that you make it sound dirty but suck dot com was was would you say you worked at Suck Dot Com joining us now jake tapper from Suck Dot Com? It was this very guerrilla website. Website started by some of the editors of wire digital and people wrote these columns that were scathing commentaries on things going on in the Internet and it was a lot of great people got their starts there and Ana Marie Cox and showing off and a bunch of others and Tim Carbel. I think we're and so. In any case there are a lot of people who their yes and we all had. You had pseudonym. So you didn't right under your name. The websites gone by the vanished. You can't get it anymore. But it was sucked for like this socks that you thought. What do you think I? I don't know but it seems like we're judging you you wrote for the the vacuum review sites suck dot dot com. Who's part of wire digital is always so wonderful to have you here? You got to come back to late night with. Seth Meyers weeknights on NBC. At twelve thirty five eleven thirty five central originally music on the late night. Podcast is by the H. E. Ban. Don't forget to follow the handle late night. Set on social media until your friends and subscribe to the late night. Podcast wherever they get their podcasts..
"colonel kinman" Discussed on The Lead with Jake Tapper
"Rewards getting more than a free continental breakfast. These days the lead starts right now breaking news the Post acquittal purge hitting a new gear as the White House tells cabinet officials. They need to start sniffing out anyone who might be disloyal to president trump in their ranks going for broke Democratic candidates. Earning cash trying to keep up with a surging Bernie Sanders and a billionaire with a bottomless bank account with this hour's until a critical election battle plus Taliban truce the trump administration announcing the first step toward a peace deal in Afghanistan. If no bombs go off for seven days. Might we finally be on the road to peace. Cnn breaking news. Welcome to the Lena Jake tapper and we begin with breaking news president. Trump's purge the latest chapter in President Trump's post acquittal presidency in which he seems quite focused on punishing his perceived enemies and rewarding loyalists breaking today sources telling CNN the president trump's new personnel chief. Jon mcentee told Cabinet officials that his office wants them to report him appointees in their agencies and departments who might be seen as disloyal to president trump and his agenda mcentee. You might recall was among the trump loyalists brought back to the White House during this post acquittal vengeance tour and CNN's Kaitlan Collins reports mcentee yesterday told cabinet officials that they should be preparing to name names today. The White House is making an effort at a post impeachment purge. Johnny Makati is the president's former body. Man Who has marched out of the White House for clearance issue two years ago but now runs the personnel office in the West Wing. And he's on the lookout for staffers. Seen as disloyal to trump during meeting liaisons from cabinet agencies first reported by axios McIntyre has to identify political appointees who may be against. The president's agenda warning changes may be made Macintosh expected to focus on the state and defence departments both at the center of Trump's impeachment. And IT COMES. After TRUMP. Fired Lieutenant Colonel Allen Vitamin and Ambassador to the EU Gordon Sunlen. Who were both key impeachment witnesses? But because he's in charge of political appointees Makati won't have firing power over career officials who are typically dealt with at the agency level. This comes after the president named a loyal supporter. The new acting director of National Intelligence. This week he pushed Joseph Maguire out of the job. After intelligence officials warned lawmakers that Russia is at it again interfering in the twenty twenty election which angered the president who found out about the briefing later today. The president dismissed their findings as another misinformation campaign being launched by Democrats despite that information coming from his own officials trump has now replaced McGuire with his ambassador to Germany. Rick Grenell who is a vocal supporter with little intelligence experience? Grenell's only expected to remain in the position temporarily and trump says he's considering naming Congressman Doug Collins as a permanent successor but Collins says. He's not interested not a job that is it interests me this time. Not One that I would accept because I'm running Senate race down here in Georgia. Floating Collins for the job was widely seen as a way for the president to avoid choosing sides in a heated Georgia Republican Senate primary with Collins out of the running trump. Now says he has four great candidates under consideration but he declined to name them now. Jake is that search is still ongoing. The President speaking at a rally in Las Vegas talking about this intelligence that shows. Russia is trying to interfere in the twenty twenty election. But Jake he's describing it as Democrats coming up with another witch hunt though we should know this information and this intelligence that was shared with lawmakers and the president is coming from his own officials coming from the office of the Director of National Intelligence Kaitlan Collins. Thanks much So let's chat about this. The president has always valued loyalty or to be precise loyalty to him not necessarily to St. It seems like he's really been emboldened by this acquittal. When you look at just the vast array of people that have been fired the people that have been rewarded. And now Joe McGuire Admiral. Maguire the latest to To Fall on the wrong side of that fence absolutely this is president trump seemingly feeling very freed. And one thing to remember. Is that when when the president's our previous chiefs of staff were in the job John John. Kelly how we used to say often to president trump. Don't do this or you will get impeached while he was impeached. That threat is now no longer operative here and so president. Trump's he can. He can do whatever he wants. And he's always been very paranoid particularly about his staff He's always actually had a loyalty litmus test frankly for a lot political appointees they haven't always been able to stick with it because it's been difficult to find candidates for a lot of these government jobs who have a squeaky clean record of not criticizing trump. And now I think he feels like he has no choice but to not just have a litmus people coming in but to get the people out who he thinks are disloyal to him. I think this is a new a phase for trump a new era in his administration. And I think it's only going to escalate as we go forward. And as we go toward the November election ways it's a signaling tactic also to supporters that he's fighting back which is something they love to see John. Kelly oversaw when Makati with shown the door over security concerns. I think he had some gambling issues or something like that now. He's back in this post impeachment post acquittal purge and Makati telling cabinet officials to root out this loyalists among their ranks. I've never heard of anything like that. Not Not since the fifties anyway. It's remarkable and as we've seen time and again with president trump. You are either within your against him. That's at least the Lens. Through which he views his administration you know time and again he has sought to cast anyone who criticizes him or disagrees with them or even some tells them something he doesn't WanNa hear as disloyal or a trader. He claimed without evidence that the special counsel investigators or a bunch of angry Democrats the career officials who testified in the impeachment cre- they were never trumpers as he said so. I think that Waldo not true not true but then you know. Part of that was his calculus to try and erode trust in the institutions so that he could convince the public that all these investigations were simply a hoax or a witch hunt now because he's emboldened by his equival. I think this pattern is even more concerning because if he does in fact just surround himself with yes-men then there will be a very real question. Moving forward of how you can really trust anything that comes out of this administration and now you're you worked in the Obama Administration. What might something like? This might affect. Might this have on on the political appointees who have just been told or have heard either from their bosses and from our reporting axios which broke the story been told that disloyal to the president. Watch out because we're going to name names and tell it to the director of personnel when you're a political appointee there's always a certain expectation that you serve at the discretion of the president and the president has every right to want people in his inner circle who he trust and can advise him that challenges that trump's definition of loyalty goes well beyond anything that has to do with national security the integrity of the country. Or what's good for the country? He is literally incapable of separating rule of law from what is rule of trump. And that's where this becomes a challenge because it not only that people who should be have expertise who were serving the presidency It also affects a broad swath of the civil service. He's effectively gutted. The State Department. He's gutted the Intel Services. A now you know with with firing of Lieutenant Colonel Kinman. He's chilling any type of discerning. The military the guy routes from the Pentagon who internally was pushing victims brother right like you can't even have the same last name as somebody as he doesn't like any more so people are not going to be able to serve their country in a way they used to and this is going to have implications well beyond trump administration because the building and the work of American national security is not able to happen with oatmeal with transparency. I was struck by something. Alex Ward is a national security reporter with box tweeted about the firing of McGuire. And I think a lot of questions I personally once he stood up for the integrity of the whistle blower. I didn't think McGuire had long in. That job wasn't gonNA be long for that job but then the question is about this intelligence committee briefing where somebody in. Maguire's office apparently said that the Russians had a preference for trump. And there's questions about what intelligence is based on. We'll get to that in a bit. Been The show but Alex Ward wrote this on twitter quote. I asked senior White House official. If trump really removed mcguire over the Russian briefing the official didn't mince words. That's absolutely why the officials said anyone from here on out that opposes. The president will get fired that bad. I asked YUP officials. Said he's not effing around just because there was a briefing that in which something was said that the president didn't like yeah and I'm struck equally the by the firing of Admiral require and bringing Rick Grenell very political trump supporter. Who had been on Fox News and so forth and abby mentioned the election. That's a practical implication. You're beyond bad. Implications for National Security longer term tells us about trump psychologically. He's got a reelection. He really really really wants to be reelected. He's going to ask in my judgment and we've seen this already. I was the various elements of the federal government to do things to help him politically. And some of those things are going to be borderline. There's always a little that reelection campaigns right you schedule your you know. Economic good news for certain state. And Yuck Tober. And that's but he I mean they're talking like investigations into its Ryan drivers. I'm talking about not being clear about what happened with Russian interference in the election..
"colonel kinman" Discussed on The Daily
"I want to begin with retribution. How does that stop? Thank you very much. Everybody the day after his acquittal in the Senate the president gathers people in the eastern White House for an event. Not quite a press. Conference is not quite speech. But it's really kind of a mixed mix of celebration of his acquittal but venting session of his grievances. I want to start by thanking some of. I call them friends. Because you know you develop friendships and relationships when you're in battle and war and he wants to thank the people who stood behind him name 'em in the audience Mitch McConnell. I WanNa tell you you did a fantastic job Mitch. Mcconnell Republican leader who did more than anybody to secure his acquittal in the trial and he mentioned Jim Jordan. When I first got to know Jim I said Huh. Jacket the hell's going. He's obviously very proud of his body. And other members of the House the Freedom Caucus that conservative Republicans who always stood by him in the most aggressive and assertive and staunch way. And of course he turns to his enemies the people he blames for his ordeal people he thinks have feared him so unfairly have plotted against him been disloyal. Or what have you and you named ones that you would expect. Of COURSE NANCY. Pelosi is a horrible person. Nancy Pelosi says she's a horrible person. A corrupt politician named Adam. Schiff made up my statement to the Ukrainian president. He brought it out of thin air. Just made it up. They say he's a screenwriter fails. Screenwriter he names. Of course Adam Schiff Delete House prosecutor and then you have some that used religion as a crutch they never used it before he names. Mitt Romney Republican the only Republican senator to vote for conviction. But you know. It's a failed presidential candidate so things can happen when you fail so badly running for president to now of course are really at odds and you see the visceral anger in the president in this moment and he mentions colonel. Alexander van made a member of his own staff details from the Pentagon working on Ukraine issues and his twin brother. Yevgeny than men who also works at the NFC staff. He says almost empathic passing through tended colonel and his twin brother and he says it was such dripping disdain. Voice you get the sense immediately of course that this is somebody who's really anger the president. He's got his attention and remind us what puts in this list of enemies. Colonel Kinman was one of the members of the White House Staff and National Security Council staff who were subpoenaed by the House to testify in the impeachment inquiry. Any come forward voluntarily. He was required to by law to give his testimony to the committee and during his testimony he told about being on the famous July twenty fifth call between the President and presence Alinsky of Ukraine when the president asked him to investigate Joe Biden and the Democrats and Colonel. Women told the committee that he thought that was inappropriate and he reported it to his superiors at the NFC and for that he has been on the target list of president trump and his allies ever since painted as disloyal painted as even treasonous to the country as patriotism question even though. He's a decorated veteran of the Iraq. War Injured in battle and really a kind of a symbol to both sides of the sort of where this fight has evolved. Our country is just respected again. And it's an honor to be with the people in this room. Thank you very much. Everybody thank you thank you. And so it comes the end of this sort of rambling meandering talk on for an hour and two minutes and you get the sense that this is not the end and that there's more to come. President trump has begun his revenge in the wake of his impeachment. Trial Colonel Vin. The same witness. He had just talked about so dismissively at the East Room that finds himself escorted out of the White House by security guards told his services are no longer needed. Well exile back to the Pentagon from which he came not just him escorted out of his job and off the White House grounds. As was his twin brother who was also assigned to the NFC. His brother Yevgeny. Vin didn't do anything had nothing to do with the impeachment hearings at all except show up and sit behind his brother. This member of family support also dismissed from his post at the National Security Council marched out at the same time by security and sent back to the Pentagon. Today Vince lawyer issued a statement saying quote. The truth has cost him his job his career and his privacy. You understand why present might not want somebody on his staff who testified and impeachment hearing against him but it was handled away that was meant to maximize the public message right. I'll tell you what I mean by that the NFC is currently undergoing downsizing and in fact the plan was to move curnow inman out as part of that or at least a use that as the cover to say is not about reprisal. It's not about Israel impeachment. It's just part of this overall restructuring and that's frankly how other presidents might have handled situation like that come up with a rationale come up with a rationale come with a public face saving kind of You'll storyline narrative at least that it even though people would see through it would at least have the veneer of looking professional rather than vindictive That was not what the president wanted. He made sure they did the separate from that reorganization. They did not explain it as part of the organization and they did not deny when we call them that day that this was what it looked like which was of course.
"colonel kinman" Discussed on The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer
"Follow. UPS are really being clear what he was talking about on one hand. It would be surprising for the Department of Justice to say we're not accepting any information from Rudy Giuliani the DOJ and FBI has a general policy of accepting tips. Anybody can pick up the phone and call the and give a tip and then it's vetted to see whether or not it's it's actionable or credible information and so it would be a little bit strange for them to say we're refusing to hear anything from Ruby Guiliani that sidebar here to say something more. He said that there's a special process. Setup essentially to collect information from Rudy Giuliani about Ukraine specifically and not really does raise concerns that having just been impeached for essentially using the Department of Justice attempting to us is law enforcement as a tool against his political opponents. A deeply abusive abuse of power really grave abuse of our the president might be turning around Ah essentially asking DOJ to do it for him. And maybe this time to observe a little bit more sort of process minimal process. So I do think there are more questions than answers on that right now because the the question is do you think this could lead the Justice Department to open a formal investigation into the Biden's. Yeah potentially I mean a couple of things. One Republicans still seem pretty hell ban on doing something investigating the Biden's even though other than the unseemly of Hunter Biden's sort of buck raking when he was in Ukraine. There's no indication Asian of what illegality or impropriety there actually looking for. But if you go by comments that Senator Grandma made over the weekend if you go by comments that the president has made they they still want to go through with this and I think to your point Susan. It seems like funneling through the Justice Department in whatever process instead of having a mayor. Giuliani sort of backchannel. It is a way to keep it going without risking going over that line again where House Democrats are going to want to further investigate. You know Markelle. We've we saw what happened our Friday. The president Got Rid of a lieutenant colonel. Kinmen Gordon Sunlen the US ambassador to the EU. What are you hearing you a lot of reporting on this? Should we brace for more of this. Well if you're talking about the actual witnesses who testified during impeachment. They're only about a handful left. That are still in government. Many of retired many of just as Tenneco convince case for pushed out so you could certainly see that as being the case there eased out or directly pushed out but more broadly in the president's mind the the entire Peach Mississauga confirmed one kind of conspiracy. He's had is that there. Is this deep state rate against them people in government who are his enemies and so what. You Might Z.. Going forward is beyond those who actually testified in the Ukraine matter are people who are weeded out are seen as not with the team and there's a restructuring structuring going on at the. NFC is part of what is really being billed as restructuring actually an effort to get rid of people who are not seen as sufficiently loyal oil. So that's something that I think we're going to have to look at going forward because that might be some some Further effects down the road. Let me get Chris Elicit away in all of this. It looks like a mess right. KRISTA put it bluntly yeah it does and I think marks point about loyalty. A loyalty test is really really important. Just because of the context this is not an isolated incident the removal of of sunland environment environments twin brother on Friday as well as Jennifer Williams leaving early in a number of other departures actress look H R McMaster REX. tillerson Jim Madison. There are there are many others This has been studied the the amount of Leaving departure in his senior staff cabinet level and then senior staff of his administration is well in above above what we've seen from any past present Republican Democratic and I do I return to the point here. Donald Trump only sees the world in one way. Are you loyal to Donald Trump trump or. Not if you are you. Rise in his estimation I give you Mike Pompeo and Mike Pence if you are not you should Polish up your resume because you're unlikely unlikely to be there for all that long everybody standby there's more news. We're following right now. A very grim milestone as deaths from the corona virus surpassed those from the SARS virus infections that surfaced nearly two decades ago and is president trump. Right when he says warmer weather will slow down the spread of the virus Everyone Barbara McDonald here hosted the brand new podcast from Hsen down the hill. The Delphi murders in February of two thousand seventeen Abigail Williams and liberty. German went for a hike on a warm day in Delphi. Indiana and vanished. Nearly twenty four hours later their bodies are found in the woods. Police began working a crime scene. They say they'll never unseat they. They soon find libby cell phone which has video and audio of the killer. Three years later later remains on the loose search for down the hill the Delphi murders wherever you're listening.
"colonel kinman" Discussed on The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer
"And that really should alarm the American people the Attorney General William Bar said you gotta take everything that comes out of Ukraine with a huge grain of salt. Because so much disinformation this information is there so he says they have a process over there at the Justice Department to review any of these things before they move on what we're seeing here though wolf is as as he called an intake process in the field. That's what he called it. That's not the regular kind of acceptance of tips or information it is a pipeline and a back channel for Rudy Giuliani. What should bar do if Rudy Giuliani? The former mayor of New York a former. US Attorney the Southern District of New York. Says I've got information I'd like to share with you. What should do you should do? What Lindsey Graham suggested and direct rudy? Giuliani to intelligence officials. Lindsey Graham said that he should go to the intelligence committee but not use it in effect to establish a special pipeline for Rudy Giuliani to create this kind of opposition research for the benefit of the president the deputy director of the FBI wooden say whether there's some sort of open investigation into the Biden's That's protocol but do you accept that when when he refused to say whether or not. There's any open investigation his job and I had that responsibility when I was a federal law enforcement prosecutor as United States turned in Connecticut is to neither confirm nor deny but in this instance. I think that it's pretty clear that the reports about lawbreaking by the Biden's have been completely debunked and discredited. And he should say talk. You expect more firings to come from the president now. We saw what happened Friday. Night With Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vitamin Gordon Sunland the US ambassador to the EU expect Beck more individuals to be fired. This president's pretty unpredictable in his personal vengeance. which is what happened to lieutenant colonel? Benjamin and his brother contended colonel. Women came forward in response to a congressional subpoena to tell the truth. He's a decorated combat veteran and he assured his father if you remember in that movie moment when he testified we're not in the Soviet Union. Dad Right matters here truth matters here but he was escorted in a highly humiliating way and really disgusting. You're one of his friends l'ancienne today he wasn't even say goodbye to his friends his colleagues that he had been working Over the National Security Council with Chuck Schumer the Democratic leader in the Senate minority leaders calling on all federal inspectors general to investigate retaliation allegation against witnesses. Come before Congress who have been subpoenaed and then testify truthfully You think that's a good idea. I think the inspector generals should investigate any any and every report of retaliation or revenge. which clearly was what happened when the president fired ineffective attending Colonel Vitamin or transferred transferred him in that way but equally important we need to strengthen the laws that protect whistleblowers and the kind of dedicated patriots who come forward with truth and speak it to power in the way? We kind of colonel women you heard. What senator Lindsey Graham? Your Republican colleague suggested these the chairman of the Judiciary Committee accusing Vitamin and other various officials at the CIA the FBI the Justice Department of having this vendetta going after the president of the United States. So what do you you think there's no vendetta here. The attempt to link him to the deep state or to some kind of conspiracy theories absolutely absurd. And I think that these kinds of theories linking patriots like Colonel Vitamin A disservice to the the Patriots who come forward but also to the brave public servants who work every day and those intelligence agency put their lives on the line all across the globe so that we it can be safer and I believe by the way that there needs to be reform of the Pfizer. Court I advocated it under President Obama because there need to be checks imbalances. So it's not as if the film is totally flawless or perfect but we need to approach it with the kind of respect for truth that Colonel Kinman demonstrators. And let's not forget. Those ten Colonel Venda decorated Iraq war veteran who was wounded in Iraq still has some shrapnel in his body for that. Thanks very much senator. Senator Blumenthal of Connecticut up next the knives come out is the Democratic presidential candidates stumped votes. Just ahead of tomorrow's New Hampshire primary and get this. There's a new national poll. That shows a very dramatic shakeup in the Democratic race. We'll discuss all the developments with the chairman of the Democratic Party. There seem Tom Perez. He studied by. How do you judge someone not by what they say by what they do? We're a nation of doers. What's Mike Bloomberg about doing things? A middle class kid worked his way through college and Entrepreneur Bloomberg built a global news and information business business from scratch mayor of a diverse progressive sitting Mike Bloomberg rebuilt after nine eleven creating nearly five hundred thousand jobs improving health care and public school so now he's running for president and Mike's the change. We need from chaos to steady leadership from lies to someone who believes in facts and data from divisiveness to someone who builds teams nurtures good ideas and hold himself accountable for results. My Bluebird knows how to leave to build to deliver favor to do. He'll win unite this country. Mike will get things done. I'm Mike Bloomberg candidate for president. And I approve this message because we need you to deliver on the promise of the American Dream Paid for by Mike Bloomberg Twenty Twenty on the eve of New Hampshire's first-in-the-nation presidential primary. Hey Mary new. Nationwide poll shows that dramatic shakeup in the Democratic presidential race. Let's go to our political director. David challenges on the ground for US in Manchester David. This this is one poll but it does suggest that there's been some major momentum shift in the race it is one poll. I'll be eager to see other national. Polls that come Mount Wolf but there's a new sheriff in town nationally in this race and it's Bernie Sanders The Guy who performed quite well in Iowa last week who may be on the precipice. epistle victory here in New Hampshire. Take a look at the numbers. And you'll see he's at a twenty five percent in this poll. Joe Biden is no longer according to this poll. The National Front runner in this race and this is fascinating. Look who's in third place. It's Michael Bloomberg at fifteen percent This is what three hundred and fifty fifty million dollars of advertising gets you. It gets you from going to zero in November when he gets in to fifteen percent now. This is his second pole to qualify for that Nevada debate stage next week. Perhaps we'll have a couple more and perhaps Michael Bloomberg will be joining the debate stage. Well we're going to talk about that with the chairman of the DNC shortly in another part of this poll is eye-catching that evolves support among African American voters. What are you seeing Wolf as you know? There is no path for anyone to the Democratic nomination without substantial support from African Americans. It is the very base of the Democratic Party and take a look. Joe Biden has really taken a dive here just a month ago in January in this poll among African Americans he was up at like forty nine nine forty seven percent if you will that has been sliced nearly in half and it is because of Michael Bloomberg's appeal among African Americans. Take a look at these numbers. He's now at twenty two percent. Michael Bloomberg is among African Americans. Joe Biden went from forty nine to twenty seven percent. So that's why you see Michael Bloomberg overall sitting at fifteen percent nationally because he is carving a huge slice of Joe Biden's base of support with African Americans into his own camp. This is this one poll and again in ease one poll. Let's see other polls and see if this is confirmed specially after we get results in New Hampshire here tomorrow night but if this is indicative of the shape of the race this race is entirely reshuffled the Quinnipiac University poll is respected indeed. But you're absolutely right. Let's see what's up other polls are showing David Chalian in New Hampshire for us. Thank you joining us now. Here in the Situation Room Democratic National Committee chairman. Tom Perez. Thanks so much control your time. Of course we're both from Buffalo New York bills allies. Tom Polls especially the fact that Bloomberg is is doing as well as well. I think it's important to remember that this is a marathon. It's not a sprint We have Had One primary one caucus forty one delegates allocated located We will continue to see a lot of activity. What excites me? Is that the energy out there. Across America's very real people understand the need to defeat Donald Trump. They're organizing everywhere. I think we have a deep bench of candidates and what everybody understands is at the end of the day.
"colonel kinman" Discussed on MSNBC Rachel Maddow (audio)
"Show. We did nine minutes during on. MSNBC this night the president is apparently taking his revenge. Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vincent who testified in the impeachment inquiry into into president trump was test. Excuse me was fired from his White House job and marched off the White House grounds today as was oddly. His twin brother who is also a National Security Council official but one who had absolutely nothing to do with the impeachment inquiry. He did apparently commit the crime. Crime of being born a few seconds after Alexander van men as his twin brother. Apparently that is enough. Within hours of Colonel Von men and his brother being marched off the White House grounds. There was word that Gordon sunlit the president's appointed ambassador to the EU was also fired. Sauna gave incredibly damaging testimony about the president's behavior during the impeachment inquiry as of tonight he has also suddenly been recalled from his post his lawyer Robert Ruskin confirming forming. NBC News Tonight. That Gordon Song was not just reassigned to some other job inside the government or within the State Department he was summarily fired. And we don't know if this is the full list tonight or if there are more long knives out for people who testified in the impeachment inquiry or are related to that scandal or literally are familiarly related to anyone who did so but despite what feels like a sort of historical parallel to Nixon and at the height of the Watergate impeachment crisis. I think it is not fair to say that this is a modern day. Saturday night massacre. The Saturday night massacre was the night in in October. One thousand nine hundred seventy three. When Nixon decided to order the firing of the Watergate special counsel the reason we remember that night low these forty years later? It's is not just because Nixon ordered the firing of Archibald Cox Watergate Special Prosecutor. We call it the Saturday night massacre because when Nixon ordered the firing of Archibald Cox out of anger and rage and frustration at the Watergate scandal when he ordered that firing there were resignations at the Justice Department Mitt from officials who felt that they couldn't in good conscience carry out that order Attorney General Elliot. Richardson resigned rather than carry out. Nixon's order to fire Archibald Cox when Attorney General Elliot. Richardson resigned. Then the deputy attorney general became the acting head of the Justice Department. His name was William Ruckus House. He too resigned. Resigned rather than carry out. The president's order to fire Archibald Cox so control the Justice Department then fell to the number three official at justice the Solicitor General Aluminium. Robert Bork. Only bork was willing to do it. And that's how Archibald Cox Scott fired. That's what it took. But those senior officials refusing to go along with what President Nixon was doing those officials standing up. And saying I will not do this. You will have my resignation instead. That's why we remember that night from back in one thousand nine hundred seventy from from that that night from the Watergate scandal. As the Saturday night massacre. That is not what is happening here because there is as yet no Elliot Richardson. In this story. There is no bill ruckus house and you know there. There have been protest resignations in the trump administration including leading over the handling of the Ukraine scandal in early October. A forty year veteran serving at the highest levels of the State Department. Michael McKinley resigned his position in part over the pressure that the trump administration was putting on Ukraine to try to get that government to help president trump in his reelection bid but also because of how Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and the administration more probably really thrown to the wolves totally abandoned career nonpartisan Professional State Department personnel who had been caught up in the impeachment inquiry because of their jobs and who were therefore bearing the wrath of the president and the conservative media and the president's supporters because of it caracal. McKinley resigned in early October as the impeachment inquiry was getting underway into the Ukraine scandal. McKinley later testified behind closed. Doors in the investigation saying quote. The timing of my resignation was the result of two overriding concerns. What appears to be the utilization of our ambassadors overseas to advanced domestic political objectives and the failure in my view of the State Department to offer support to foreign service employees caught up in the impeachment richman inquiry on Ukraine? He said quote since I began my career in nineteen eighty two. I have served my country and every president loyally under current circumstances. Insist however I could no longer look the other way as colleagues were denied the professional support and respect that they deserve from us all and thus Michael McKinley resigned in protest of the administration and in protest of the actions of Secretary of State. Mike Pompeo specifically him abandoning State Department employees to the wolves as they were caught up in the impeachment investigation and not lifting a finger to protect them as they were targeted and their lives and careers. Were in some cases basically they destroyed by virtue of the fact that as part of their job responsibilities they had witnessed something relevant to the inquiry and they had responded and testified truthfully about it when called to do so and subpoenaed to do so. McKinley resigned and McKinley is not the only one. There have been other protest resignations agents of high level trump's appointees for various reasons defense secretary. James Mattis resigned in December. Two thousand eighteen when he felt that the president made an unconscionable all an irresponsible decision about Syria he was followed out the door. Soon thereafter by Brett mcgurk who was leading the effort against Isis in Iraq and Syria at at the time this past November. It was the Navy Secretary who resigned Richard Spencer. He resigned in protest. When president trump personally intervened interfered appeared in the military justice system to mess with some specific criminal cases that he wanted to try to turn to his political advantage Navy secretary? Richard Spencer's resignation. Nations statement was rip roaring. He said quote the rule of law is what sets us apart from our adversaries. Good Order and discipline is what has enabled our victory against foreign tyranny time and time again the constitution and the uniform code of military justice our shields that set us apart and beacons that protect us all. Unfortunately it's become apparent that in this respect I no longer share the same understanding with the commander in chief who appointed me in regards to the key principle of good order and discipline. I cannot in good conscience. It's obey an order that I believe violates the sacred oath I took in the presence of my family my flag and my faith to to support and defend the constitution of the United States. Richard Spencer resigned as secretary of the Navy on November twenty-fourth remarkably today. He became the first trump appointee to endorse one of president. Trump's opponents for the November election. We'll have more on that a little bit later on but there have been principal high level resignations from the trump administration. There have been a few because we know the president does not like to fire anyone directly. He likes to have other people do that for him. We can surmise based on that past practice that there are probably other people in the chain of command who were called upon on today and tonight to start firing the witnesses who testified against president trump gray so far. Whoever those people are they appear to be carrying out those orders and not resigning in protest? We haven't seen any resignations at least that we know of that's notable not only because history is sort of focused intently on our behavior as a country right now I truly believe but also because at least within the military when it comes to the specific case of Lieutenant Colonel Alexander van we have had some very pious assertions from the people who would would be in an Elliot. Richardson Bill Ruckus House kind of role in this firing. But of course they would never let this happen. Of course. They'd never let anything like what what happened tonight horse. They'd never let that happen in November when lieutenant colonel emerged as a witness in the impeachment inquiry you might remember that the army moved in prepared pared to move his family to a secret location. They developed a secret. Excuse me a special security detail for him and his family to keep them safe in the face of an incredible number of threats against him and his family after he was demonized by not just the White House but by the conservative media and and by the president's supporters in Congress and around the country at the time Defense Secretary Mark Esperer was asked about colonel during a gaggle with reporters quarters a reporter defense. One Markus Weise Gerber. Actually posted online the full transcript of that exchange and it is worth looking at tonight tonight of all all nights it is worth getting this re upped in the public record. You should see this. Here's the question to defense secretary. Marcus Burke Question Alexandrov inman is is in the news remember. This is from November. This is the time that Alexandrov inman is becoming national news right question. Alexandra Vigne is in the news. A lot of service members are going to be wondering is his career toast after testifying and should I take the risk of whistle blowing. What do you tell them? As the defense secretary answer from Defense Secretary Mark Asper the the Department of Defense has protections for whistleblowers they are guaranteed in law and he should not have any fear of retaliation. That is the department's position question. He meaning vitamin ANSWER. He an any other whistle blower. All right question are you going to reinforce that message periodically answer. I've already spoken to the secretary of the army about that question. What was the message to him? Answer no retaliation. That's law question. There's the law but there's also ways to screw somebody answer there's no retaliation it's that simple defense secretary mark asper in November personally guaranteeing guaranteeing that there would be no retaliation against Alexander Edmund for him testifying in the impeachment inquiry. No retaliation under the law in terms of him being criminally prosecuted or something but also no other way to In the reporters words quote. Screw him as revenge for him testifying and there's the guarantee no there's no retaliation it's not simple. He shouldn't have any fear of retaliation no retaliation that's the law so says Defense Secretary Mark Asper November shortly thereafter the top Democrat in the Senate Chuck Schumer wrote to Defense Secretary. Mark Asper asking in writing for him to confirm that Lieutenant Colonel Kinmen would be protected from any retaliation any revenge for his testimony. Schumer wrote to Defense Secretary Mark for November eighteenth. Took the Defense Department almost a full month to write him back when they did the letter. This time didn't come from defense. Secretary Mark Asper asper. It came from the Deputy Secretary of Defense. A man named David Norquist Jumper Grover Norquist. The antitax like longtime conservative activists. Guy Who famously said. He wanted to get government down to the size where you could drown in a bathtub. Grover norquist has a little brother. Whose name is David? Norquist who trump named named deputy secretary of Defense and. That's who sent this letter back to Chuck Schumer when Senator Schumer inquired as to whether or not the Defense Department would protect Colonel Vitamin from retaliation allegation for his impeachment inquiry testimony. Here's what David Norquist pledged in writing on Pentagon letterhead on December sixteenth quote. Dear Senator Schumer thank you for your letter to Secretary. Asper dated November eighteenth regarding recent testimony by Lieutenant. Colonel Alexander Vitamin and Deputy Assistant Secretary of defense lawyer Cooper. I'm replying on secretary experts behalf. Let me assure you. The Department will not tolerate any act of retaliation or reprisal against them further. We're committed to take whatever steps are necessary. Sorry to ensure the security of colonel and Ms Cooper we continue to monitor their security situation will make available any appropriate resources necessary to ensure their safety and that of their families. Lease again please. No we take responsibility to protect our people very seriously. I appreciate your continued support of the men and women of the Defense Department and we'll keep you apprised is D- of any developments as appropriate. Let me assure you that department will not tolerate any act of retaliation or reprisal against I. We will keep you apprised of any developments as appropriate no word as to whether or not David Norquist deputy secretary of defense in fact kept the Senate Democratic leader apprised apprised over the last twenty four hours when reports I started surfacing that president trump indeed was planning on taking revenge against Colonel Vincent for his testimony. Bloomberg news was first to report late last night that president trump might be seeking to take his revenge to retaliate against Colonel Madman for having been a witness defense. It's secretary expert was again asked about about this matter at a press conference today despite his his earlier assurances is earlier pious guarantee that he wouldn't allow any retaliation against inman whatsoever despite him saying that himself in November and the Deputy Secretary of defense saying that on his behalf in writing reading in December today. Defense Secretary of Marcus was not exactly a profile in courage when he was asked about that matter in light of Bloomberg News. report that Vin men might be in the president's crosshairs.
"colonel kinman" Discussed on MSNBC Rachel Maddow (audio)
"We haven't seen very much in this country only a couple of times in history and so it will be fascinating but it will also be extremely high level this report that Adam Schiff is going to hand over to the Judiciary Committee thirty. Maybe sometime next week. He said after the Thanksgiving recess. Is that a report. You're likely to see we're likely to see our viewers are likely to see. Yes whenever that does come. We don't know exactly when we expect it to be a public report that will essentially be the framework of at least some portion of the articles of impeachment. Sharee committee will ultimately draft draft. But you went through litany of stories at the top here that suggests the facts are still in some ways coming out. So that's the one unusual piece we have here is that this is a fast moving living situation where we're learning new details about the actual investigation every day. And so what those what those articles will look like and whether the facts will be completely different a new elements will come out. New witnesses will come forward before they're drafted the big question. Mark there's been a development for people who consume this and they all sorts starts to sound the same drip together the very interesting piece of news that is being reported tonight by by newspapers. Is that the president caught wind of the fact that there was there's a whistle blower complaint. He knew the gist of it and then released the money and said to Gordon's online and others no quid pro quo. The idea that the money was released released because they knew they were there was an investigation going to be happening right. And in some ways there was evidence of this. We know that Democrats had announced an investigation of Ukraine matters. There's on September ninth two days before it gets released. But this tells you even more that the president and his team was aware at least in a Broadway of what the whistle blower had concerns earns about and so we we know now new element of the time when it just gets introduced. Usually these things are well settled by the time. You're talking about drafting articles of impeachment so very fast moving situation. Let's talk about the articles of impeachment. Something that you wrote tonight is that two articles of impeachment abuse of power and obstruction of Congress are virtually league guaranteed to show up as features of the impeachment against the president but the Democrats are divided on whether to involve matters relating to Russia and the Muller Investigation investigation into this. Tell me a bit about the dispute right so Ukraine investigation clearly homed in on the on the abuse of power argument trump pressure to foreign government. Gotcha to help his own political prospects and obstruction. A lot of witnesses. Were blocked from coming. Congress still hasn't had access to some of the top witnesses they like to see the mullahs the report. which many people thought would initially be the basis for any impeachment proceedings? We saw kind of fallen by the wayside in this discussion. Except that we now have this ruling rolling in the mcgann Case Muller Star witness former White House counsel Don mcgann who the judge said basically has to testify and he's been blocked and he could provide very valuable label information to Congress that could feed another article of impeachment on obstruction of justice. If they go that route and so this is something that's again very fluid and whether and a lot of members would like liked to see that factored into any impeachment move forward with cows. Good to see you in person. Thank you for being with us. Ninety Cal Cheney is a congressional reporter for politico all right tonight. We've got new reporting according from the Washington Post that appears to contradict or at least cast doubt on one of president. Donald Trump's central defenses in the impeachment. Inquiry you may remember that one week ago today a EU ambassador. Gordon Son testified to Congress that there was an explicit quid pro quo involving the announcement of investigations into trump's political rivals also in exchange for a coveted White House meeting at that hearing saw also testified that he spoke with the president by phone on September ninth two days before the hold on military aid was lifted. This is important because Kyle just said September ninth two days before the president took to the White House lawn to defend himself off using a set of talking points based on that specific call between trump and Sunderland according to both on land and the president when the when Sawn asked the President President what he wanted from Ukraine on that September ninth call trump replied quote. I want nothing I want nothing. I want no acquitted pro quo now tonight. New Reporting by The Washington Post casts doubt on those claims the post reports that quote no other witness testimony or documents have. Emerged that corroborate son. Lind's description of a call that day and that the White House has not located record in its switchboard logs of a call between between trump and saw land on September ninth. According to an administration official you can see why every day sometimes it feels like every hour new reporting makes this story. That much more intriguing joining us. Now Ben Rhodes deputy national security adviser under president. Obama and the author of the World as eight is a memoir of the Obama White House. Mr Roads thank you for joining US tonight. Let's first of all. Just get your reaction to this. The idea that Gordon Jordan sodden. Lindsey testimony in large part was predicated upon this phone call that apparently took place between him and Donald Trump a phone call. That feels like it might have been scripted. Did that it was so it was so good in what it had to say. If you were Gordon Sunland what is what do you make of the fact that there's no record of this phone call. Well look first of all alley. The whole fact picture around this phone call suggest that there was entirely quid pro quo that trump was leveraging this assistance to try to get an announcement of these investigations and then This reporting kind of suggest what also seemed apparent. Which is they knew that they were going to be caught? They knew there were scrutiny around this and so this is someone who knows that they're being caught calling someone and saying I am not committing a crime. You know I mean nobody says no quid pro quo. That's not something you say in casual conversation here so it seems very clear that this phone call is contradictory to the rest of the entire fact pattern and was motivated. Aided by their effort to get something on the record that could potentially obscure what they'd already been caught doing. You were a deputy national security adviser under President Obama and I. I think that it has been years. Probably since iran-contra that the national security adviser role has been so public and people have understood how it all goes on the people who populate that office in many cases the people we've heard testifying they were not Democrats or Republicans they are people who have been working in the security apparatus edis either for a long time inside government or outside. Give me your sense of their impact on the impeachment process so far. Well that's a great question ally because the point the point that's critical for people understand is the vast majority of the national security staff in the government is a political or people who are civil servants who serve both Republicans and Democrats Foreign Service officers at the State Department Like people that we've heard from repeatedly. Bill Taylor comes to mind of people in the uniform military like Lieutenant Colonel Kinman who comes to mind and then kind of nonpartisan experts like few and a hill. All of these people are there to serve the national interest. And that's generally the national security community and you hear those people's voices commitment to the constitution into a sense of what are the national interests of the United States and Ukraine and the national interests of the United States and Ukraine are to push back against Russian aggression to help a country that is being besieged literally by adversary. And what's so striking. This whole process is separate and apart from all those people there was this distinct channel. People like Rudy Giuliani. And Gordon. Sandline we did you. Who's he's not even in the US government? He's a personal attorney for President Trump and Gordon silent who's a donor. Not even representing Ukraine. He's there he's there Representative to the European Union Union and so clearly trump created a parallel channel. That would carry out his efforts to politicize for his own personal corrupt gain our foreign policy and all the rest of the people were mystified and many cases apparently horrified by this and we got some of this testimony but the fact is there may be some people who think that's enough to impeach Donald trump that he was doing something for his personal enrichment but national security. Experts are actually concerned that it's not actually. The personal enrichment part is secondary to the fact that that money was congressionally only approved for a national security reason. So doing something else that is of no consequence for personal enrichment or political. Enrichment is one thing but this wasn't a thing to play with the support for Ukraine is not sort of a fun charitable thing. Yeah this is not trivial national security matters. This is one of the chief breath geopolitical hotspots in the world today alley Ukraine literally depends upon this assistance as a lifeline as it is fighting an ongoing war with Russia that is occupying part of its territory that killed thousands of people right so this is a very pressing national security matter that was being made secondary by Donald trump to his own personal interest. The thing that worries me is if Donald Trump is not held accountable for this. The message will be sent presumably by the Republican Party is that we're okay with this world K with presidents essentially putting the personal interest over the national interest even in matters of extreme national security importance and think about how that could be applied going forward. What is the message going forward to other countries around the world and people in our national security community? If we're basically going to say it's a country it doesn't matter if a president prioritizes the the investigation of his own political opponents over the national interest. And I think that's why you saw such uniformity of opinion and all those factories witnesses today. Can you remember when you were Deputy National National Security Adviser whether there were congressional Republicans who were saying. We're okay with we'd be okay with President. Obama doing something like this was were Simpler Times Times. Ben Good to see not only did they try to make president amount to be. You know someone who was an out of control executive when he absolutely wasn't but importantly they were huge supporters of Ukraine in accordance constantly attacked by Republicans for not providing more aid to Ukraine right. And what's been really sad to watch them flip on matters related to Russia and Ukraine to suddenly having no problem with treating this ally like a second class citizen a country that is only a forum for their own personal political efforts shocked or attack attack. Democrats Ben we're always grateful for your thank you for joining us. Thanks a lot could be. Ben Rhodes National Deputy National Security Adviser under President Obama. Just ahead new details about Rudy Giuliani's dealings in Ukraine. We'll be right back. We are this testimony. We are this yesterday from a former. Our top official not testimony. We heard Toffler Comoran former top official the Justice Department and a prosecutor who served on the Muller Investigation. Hey Everyone Steve Steve Kornacki here. We have heard explosive testimony from key witnesses in the public impeachment hearings. So what's next. As the case for impeachment Ben made could the President Count on Republicans support in a Senate trial. And how could it affect the twenty twenty election. Well every Monday Wednesday and Friday I talked to..
"colonel kinman" Discussed on The Lawfare Podcast
"Hill were you aware also that that during that period there was a lot of publicity. And I think Mr Holmes you reference this in your opening an excitement as well about Rudy Giuliani's interest in these investigations in Ukraine certainly away. Yes and the around this time Dr Hill you also. I believe testified. Defied that Ambassador Bolton head express some views to you about Mr Giuliani's interest in Ukraine. Do you recall what you said. Yes yes I do. Do you recall it was part of a conversation about the things That Mr Giuliani was saying very frequently in public. We saw them often didn't assault him often on television. Making these statements and I had also ready brought to on busted. Bolton's attention the attacks the smear campaign campaign against on bus Giovanni Vich expressed regret about how this is unfolding and in fact the shameful way in which I'm busted was was being smeared in tax and I'd asked if there was anything that we could do about it and busted Bolton had looked pained basically the indicated with body language. That was nothing we could do about it. And then in the cost of discussions said that Rudy Giuliani was hungry. That was going to blow. Everyone up do you understand what he meant by that I did. Actually what did he mean. Well I think he meant that. Obviously what Mr Giuliani was saying was pretty explosive lows. In any case he was frequent television. Making quite incendiary remarks about everyone involved in this are that he was clearly pushing forward issues and ideas. That would probably come back to hunters and in fact. I think that's where we are today. Mr Holmes did the Ukrainians understand and that Rudy Giuliani represented the president's views. I believe they did. I was reaching out to them directly. He also best ambassador which is removal. I think is Roselle relevant to this this portion inquiry because she was removed following this media campaign. Hey in which Rudy Guiliani Guiliani associates were very prominent and criticizing her for not taking seriously some of the theories Issues that that later came up and so when she was removed I you know. Commentators and Ukraine believed that loot Sankoh. Working with Giuliani early on he had succeeded in getting her removed so they were already aware of Mr Giuliani and his influence the issues that he was promoting and the then and ultimately that he was able to get an ambassador removed partly because of that so he was someone to contend with and then in addition immediately we after the inauguration he began reaching out to this Alinsky administration key figures in this one game ministration and continue to do that. Let's focus on the inauguration. gration for a minute you would you escorted for lack of a better word the US delegation. Around so I joined them in some of their meetings but but not for the entire day and who was the official who was on the official delegation. Yes it was Five people so as the head of the delegation was Secretary Perry and it was a massive Volker represent the State Department Vassar saw are temporary charge. A Joseph Pennington and Alex Vitamin representing the White House and did the delegation have a meeting with presidents. Alinsky that you attended yes and you testified. I think in your Previously that Secretary Akrotiri Perry gave a list of some sort to presidents Alinsky at that meeting. Do you recall that yes in the meeting. With the President Secretary Perry's the head of the a delegation opened the meeting of the American side and had a number of points he made and during that period he handed over a piece of paper. I did not see what was was on the paper but Secretary Perry described what was on the paper as a list of trusted individuals for recommended secretary presence. Alinsky Alinsky could draw from that list for advice on energy sector reform issues. And do you know who was on that list. I didn't see the list. I no other colleagues. There are other people who've been in the mix for a while on that set of issues other people's Secretary Perry has mentioned as being people to consult on reform. And are they Americans. Yes now do also recall colonel. Kinmen Spoke to presidents Alinsky in that meeting. Yes and what did he say to presidents Alinsky and in terms of some of the issues that we're addressing here in this investigation. Yes he was the last to speak. He made a general point about the importance of Ukraine national security. And he you said it's very important that this alinsky administration stay out of domestic politics. Was it your understanding that presidents Alinsky and the Ukrainians were already already starting to feel some pressure to conduct these political investigations. Yes and those were the ones related to Biden and Barista in the two thousand sixteen election. Correct now Dr Hill. You also testified that around the same time in May learned that president trump was receiving information from someone L. said the National Security Council. Is that right. That's not quite right. I was told in passing that someone else the national security council that the president may want to speak to them because of some materials related to Ukraine and that person indicate that the president thought that was the director rector of Ukraine. That was correct. Who I brief conversation just to be clear? Who is the director of Ukraine director? For Ukraine's Alex Vin men colonel. Who did the individual and the executive secretary's office refer to the individual? Just the name cash. Did you know who that was us. Initially I was thinking about it by to search my mind and the cash the I knew the National Security Council Cash Patel in Kutch Patel did not work on Ukraine crane matters. That you oversaw. Is that right not that I ever saw no so. The indication is that Cash Patel had provided some information directly to the president without your knowledge that seemed to be indication. Now I want to go back to the July twenty fifth call right now where. President trump in another excerpt asked presidents alinsky about his political potential political opponent Vice President Joe Biden in this excerpt. The the president said the other thing. There's a lot of talk about Biden's son. That Biden stopped prosecution and a lot of people. WanNa find out about that so whatever you can do. With the Attorney Attorney General would be great Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution. So if you can look into it it sounds horrible to me now. Uh Dr Hill. This was of course one of the allegations. That Rudy Giuliani was pushing. Is that right. Correct now confirmed in this July. Twenty fifth call. The president was also interested in it. Yes ambassadors Volcker and Sunland have tried to draw a distinction between their understanding of the connection connection between Barista and the Biden's but Dr Hill was it apparent to you that when President Trump Giuliani or anyone else was pushing for an investigation Shen into Barista that the reason why they wanted that investigation related to what President Trump said here the violence. It was very apparent to me that that was is what Rudy Giuliani intended. Yes intended to convert the BARISTA was linked to the Biden's and he said this publicly repeatedly Mr Holmes you also understood that Burris Mo was code for Biden's yes and do you think that anyone involved in Ukraine matters in the spring and the summer would understand that as well yes now are either dodger. Hillary you aware of any evidence to support the allegations against Vice President Biden. I'm not now. And in fact. Mr Holmes. The former Prosecutor General of Ukraine Rain Vice President Biden encouraged to fire was actually corrupt. Is that right correct and was not pursuing suing corruption investigations and prosecutions right. My understanding is The general time Shokhin was not at at that time pursuing investigations of Burrito or the violence and in fact removing the corrupt prosecutor general was part of the United States anti-corruption in policy. Isn't that correct. That's not just us. But all of our allies and other institutions are revolving Ukraine at the time. Now Dr Hill you you indicated earlier that you had understood that a White House meeting was conditioned on the pursuit by Ukraine of these investigations. I want to focus on July tenth meeting in the White House where that came to light. You indicated that in your testimony that there was a large meeting ambassador. Bolton ran where ambassadors Sunland Volker Secretary Perry also attended. Is that right that's correct. Yes and why were they included in that meeting with of two. Ukrainian officials about national security of matters or the initial intent is not to include them. We'd anticipated that To Ukrainian officials would have a number of meetings is usually the procedure. Are there would be meetings at the State Department potentially also at the Energy Department and then there was a request to have on buses sunland and Volker included coming directly from their offices and as a result of that clearly given. Ah The important role that Secretary Perry was playing in the energy sector reform in Ukraine. And the fact that you'd also been in the delegation to the presidential essentially inauguration and Ukraine. We decided that it would be better than to include all three of them now toward the end of this meeting. The Ukrainians raised the ongoing. They're ongoing desire for an Oval Office. Meeting is that right. That's correct and what happened after they did that. Well I listened very carefully to ambassadors just sunland testimony yesterday so I want to actually point out something where I think. It's easy to explain why he had a different interpretation of how this came into being mm-hmm the meeting edition being scheduled for about forty five minutes to an hour and it was definitely in the wrap up phase Of the meeting when this occurred. We've gone through a series of discussions on Sunday done earlier. Coors at this point the designated national security advisor of Ukraine really wanted to get into the weeds of how you might reform the National Security Council. He talked to me about this prior to the meeting. He was hoping and it's hard. It's opportunity with the National Security Advisor. United States to get his first-hand opinions and thoughts on what might happen. We'd also wanted to go through discussion about how important it was for Ukraine to get its energy sector reform underway and clearly Secretary Perry had some talking points to this. As an issue that I'm basketball was also interested interested. In and then we knew that the Ukrainians would have on their agenda inevitably the question about a meeting. And so as we get through the main discussion. We're going into that. Wrap up phase the Ukrainians Mr Donnie. Luke starts to ask about a White House meeting and busted bulletin was trying to carry this back. Although he's the national security advisor he's not in charge of scheduling the meeting we have input recommending the meetings and this goes through a whole process. So it's not I'm busted a Bolton's role to stop pulling out the schedule and start saying well. We're going to look and see if this Tuesday. This month is going to work with this and he does not as a matter of cost like to discuss the details of these meetings. He likes to leave them to the appropriate stuff for this so this was already going to be an uncomfortable. Issue and as Ambassador Bolton was trying to move ooh that part of the discussion of where he was going to try to deflect it onto another topic. I'm buses some. Linda leaned in basically to say well. We have an agreement comment that there will be a meeting. Specific investigations a put underway. And that's when I saw ambassador Bolton Stiffen I was sitting behind him in the chair and I slow him sit back slightly like this. He'd been moving forward. Like I am to the table for me that was an unmistakable body body language and it caught my attention and then he looked up to the clock. And I'll watch towards the wrist. In any case again I was sitting behind him and basically said well. You know it's been really good to see you. I'm afraid I've got another another meeting ambassador. Sunlen say who his agreement on in this White House meeting was with in particular juncture. I don't believe so it was later which I'm sure you'll want to talk about that. He did say specifically. What did he say later letter? He said that he had an agreement with chief-of-staff Mulvaney in return for investigations. This meeting would get scheduled specific at that point Later about the investigations that he was referring to the investigations in Burma. Now did you have a conversation with Ambassador Bolton after this subsequent meeting with them Bassett or Sunland I had discussion with him. Busted Bolton both after the meeting in his office a very brief one and then one immediately afterwards the subsequent meeting so the subsequent meeting or the after both meetings when you spoke to him and relate to him. What ambassador Sunland said what it Ambassador Bolton say to you just want to highlight first of all I'm busted Bolton wanted me to hold back in the room immediately after the meeting again I was sitting on the suffer with a colleague in that second meeting?.
"colonel kinman" Discussed on Anderson Cooper 360
"And you know it's just not a part of the country born morning. Console had a poll. We're last couple of days saying what what are. Your top priorities had ten parties. What are your top priorities for the country? The impeachment was number ten in terms of priorities. And I think that speaks volumes about where we are now. I don't know whether the Democrats can turn this around. I don't I think at this point. The chances are you're the president's going to come out of this hurt but not damage and it's GonNa definitely be up to the voters and you I mean I think you've said and correct me if I'm wrong did that this bigger than what Nixon as Adam Schiff was making the point in both the clips. You showed that what he uncovered he felt was worse than Watergate. I agree with him. I think it was in one way for its national security. It is not a domestic domestic policy issue. It's not a bungled burglary that you cover up. It's not a internal White House sponsored burglary. You're covering up There that overriding problem creates a huge difference to me But also I was frankly surprised that Nixon resigned. He did have have information to fight. He didn't know it unfortunately he didn't mind all the tapes and didn't have that information today. You can assemble a a very strong argument that he survived using this as well. I eat no one's ever asked me. We're GONNA take a quick break. Ah moorhead just Ed were GONNA ask the member of the Intelligence Committee. Sean Patrick Maloney for his thoughts now that the second week of public impeachment testimony has wrapped up. And you do you remember to create an ad like this one visit pure winning dot com slash CNN. Hey everyone it's poppy harlow and this week's episode of boss files. A conversation with San Francisco Fed President Mary Daly. She has a remarkable story of resilience and define the dropped out of high school at fifteen years. Old were donut shop and then turned it all around to get her. Hd Day she is responsible for ramping in US and monitoring policy. It's an important conversation you find. It is fascinating and I did. Check it out. Subscribe the boss miles. Today's impeachment hearing ended. It was the most powerful testimony in what been two weeks memorable. The moment my next guests was a big part of all congressman. Sean Patrick Maloney as a Democrat on the intelligence committee thanks For being with US first of all of your takeaways from today with Funeral Hill and David Holmes what what stood out to you Two more incredibly impressive public servants. Look at Dr. He'll story you know. I mean the daughter of coal miners comes to this country. Believing in its promise says my working class accent never gotten away and look at her success and she knew right from wrong and she went reported what she saw and boy she demonstrated trated clarity and courage today and David Home. Same thing. That's a guy who understood what his duty was stepped forward and said I have the direct evidence. People Flirt. Complaining is missing and I'm gonNA come give it. And of course they come on the heels of ten Colonel Women and Ambassador Bridge and Bill Taylor hailer military heroes distinguished members of the foreign service all telling a story at risk of their own professional careers. It was an extraordinary week. And we're grateful to all of them. I I want to play something that happened yesterday. You in a question you had with embassador sunland response. You had to something. He said disturb impromptu. Let's tickle I've been very forthright and I really resent what you're trying to fair enough. You've been very forthright. This your third try to do so sir. Didn't work so well. The first time did it. We had a little declaration. Come in after you remember that an hour here third time and we got a statement from you this morning. There's a whole bunch of stuff you don't recall so all all due respect sir. We appreciate your candor but let's be really clear on what it took to get it out here. Did you practice that. Because that was that was was was that impromptu I mean that was was but and it was because he wouldn't answer a simple question. which was I think pretty obvious concern which is that? All of this was done to benefit the president personally politically and that he was trading official acts or offering to to get that personal benefit. That is the textbook definition of soliciting thing. A bribe and ambassador. Sunlen has that knowledge and I was getting a little sick of him dancing around he also a few on the hill today. Really put investor Sunland in the camp of Mulvaney Giuliani whereas Sunlen put himself in the camp of Volker and career. Foreign Service officers of well. Well we were just trying to break the logjam and advanced. US interests and we had to deal with Giuliani. Yeah I have no doubt that ambassador Sunlen sees himself as the hero hero in his own narrative. But what I can tell you is that it took a lot of other cooperation. A lot of other brave witnesses to put them in a box and to get the truth out of them and even as we sit here. You've got people like Dr Hill saying I was Burrito Memento Biden instantly so Tim Morrison by the way so that anybody with Google machine gene and and and somehow doc ambassador sunland wants us to believe that he never had any idea. An investor Volker sort of has the same argument and didn't initially understand PRISMA meant Biden. I mean I want to be clear. We are glad that both of those witnesses came forward and gave their testimony and from what I can tell we. He had reliable testimony by ambassador silent and he confirmed some critical pieces of this puzzle. So I am appreciative of that I do think there were some continuing gaps in his memory that raise some questions but other witnesses thank goodness fill. The men like David Holmes today. who heard the president's voice voice talking about did they do? Did they agree to do the investigations. Even though Sunland Continues to conveniently not remember that Kevin Kevin McCarthy told CNN tonight. He believes his an lose any Republican votes during impeachment that he's actually going to gain votes from Democrats. Do you think that's a possibility. I don't I don't know and I don't don't have a crystal ball on that. You know what I care about. I care about that that those of us in Congress try to demonstrate some of the same courage the guys like Lieutenant Colonel Kinman did did I mean the guy sat there and said tell the story about his dad leaving Russia where he would have been killed for doing this said my my dad got three of us in the military here. He believed in this country. We've all defended and fought for it and in America right matters. Well here's hoping right. And what is going to depend on is guys is like Kevin McCarthy getting getting two feet out of his partisan gain plane and trying to look at this with some perspective. I think any fair person looking at the facts faxed the evidence has to say has to say the minimum. This is very serious conduct. That is unbecoming any American President. And if you really look at it I think you would would conclude that the president was clearly endeavouring to obtain a personal political benefit trading official acts in the process. And you want to argue that. That's not up to the level level of impeachment. Well God bless Ya but it seems to me that the founders wrote bribery into the text of the constitution because light treason it involves selling out your country for personal gain and selling your honor at the expense of your country. I am sorry to tell all my friends who continue to support the president that that's what happened here and it's up to us to to see it for what it is kearns. Maloney appreciate your Tom. Thanks for getting my pleasure back now with our legal and political team David do you think the idea of losing some Democrats on this. I'm doing Kevin. McCarthy is right here I think they might lose a few. I doubt it will be very many. I did. I did think that heard Republicans again. Going back to this point Scott Jennings earlier I think he represents what you may see. More Republicans move in that direction I heard was talking to me. I started my got. He's GonNa break. And he swerved right at the last minute unstated has in the past gone farther than a lot of other Republicans he's got it's not about eighty percent rate of voting with this president. He's broken with on serious stuff surrounding immigration. He's in a district that's turning. He won't one this last election of two thousand votes. He's obviously a retiring because he probably couldn't win that seat again. But this is the classic will heard you know sort of joking with David before the show that this is kind of what he does and he's pleased people like David who think. Oh this is going to. He's going to side with the Democrats and be something other than kind of Republican falls in line with this president but again vote. He didn't think that this inquiry was a good idea. So the idea of that he would come down against this president resident knowing that he wants future in the Republican Party. I think it was always unlikely John Dean when it goes the Judiciary Committee. What actually happens opens? It's very interesting little different this time because the house itself had to undertake the investigation that is normally taken by grand jury Another our investigative body the Department of Justice. Here they justice turned it down so the house. Intel Committee undertook the Ukrainian investigation. They're bringing that in. They already have the report of the special counsel. What are they going to do with that? That's got counts of obstruction of justice in it no conspiracy. There is evidence of collusion. Are they going to merge that altogether those are decisions they have to make and see what comes out. What does the press discover new things over the next two? They can bring them right out. They can hold here instead of juries just jurisdiction so more witnesses can come in. I'm still in the judiciary so absolutely how long do you think it would. I mean I guess there's no way to know how long would be the judiciary committee. Well I think they have a goal of trying to do it before the Christmas recess. If if new evidence broke I'm sure they go over to the New Year and David then in these moves moves over to the Senate side it is a whole other kind of experience. I mean it is all the senators. They're all present all sitting there six days a week right and I. I think I think that was entering the Republicans talking to the White House today and try and coming out basically as you reported trying to limit this to two weeks. Ah You know for the for the trial. What I'm not clear how who speaks? And the of attorney the managers they make the case. How many measures managers are there and each side? There's a rule typically decides that and the speaker will decide that and probably four or five or six. Yes yeah outside counsel Talk the president can bring his counsel. I remember for example White House Counsel Charlie Rough did the closing argument for Bill Clinton which was he rarely represents the office of the president so I was surprised to see him make that argument but he made it in the context of the the office. I get there We have more breaking news coming up another. CNN exclusive schools have an FBI officials under criminal investigation connection with the two thousand sixteen campaign. We have details on. That next.
"colonel kinman" Discussed on The Michael Knowles Show
"Needed I needed a few glasses of that while I was watching these impeachment hearings. Why didn't lieutenant? Colonel Kinmen expresses concerns to his boss. Vinnie was the director of European Affairs on the NFC. His boss is Tim Morrison on the messy. Why did he go to a lawyer? Why did he go around? The official process. Jim Jordan Republican congressman as usual males. Why didn't you go after the call? Why didn't you go to Miss Morrison? I went immediately per the per the instructions from the July tenth incident. I went immediately to Mr Eisenberg after that once. I made that expressed my concerns. This was an extremely busy week. We had a just finish. We had the call and then we had a deputies meeting which consumed all my time. I was is working extremely long. Days is that right lieutenant. Colonel Than Men. So the reason that you didn't go to your superiors and follow the chain of command here when you wanted to change US policies singlehandedly. The the reason that you went to a lawyer instead but you didn't have time to go to your boss is because you were really busy that week are you joking. This says like a freshman in college didn't finish his term paper on time making an excuse to his professor. You had time to go to the lawyer. You had time to gin up this whole conspiracy this whole impeachment hoax which we've heard is a hoax. Based on now what five major witnesses called forth by Adam shift. That's defy so you you. You had time to do that but you don't have time to go to your boss. Give me a break you. You had time to talk to somebody. And it wasn't even just the lawyer he also had Eh Tundras. NFL to talk to his boss the time to talk to the lawyer and he had time to talk to somebody else in the murky deep State Intelligence Community Jim Jordan pulls that atom so the lawyer not only didn't go to your boss. You said you try. You didn't go to your boss. You went straight to the lawyer and the lawyer told you not to go to your boss. He No. He didn't tell me until. Why didn't you go to your direct report? Mr Morrison your response. Was this page one too. Because Mr Eisenberg told me to take my concerns to him then I ask you didn't it. Did Mr Eisenberg tell you not to report to go round Mr Morrison and you said actually he did say that. I shouldn't talk to any other people that right. Yes but there's a whole there's a period of time in their between when I spoke to him and when he circled back around it wasn't that long period of time but it was enough time for me too enough time to talk to someone that you won't tell us who it is right I. I've been instructed not to represent Jordan. Here's what I'm getting. The lawyer told you. Don't talk to any other the people and you interpret that is not talking to your boss but you talk to your brother you talk to the lawyers. Talk to Secretary Kit and you talk to the one Guy Adam. Schiff won't tell you won't let us won't let you tell us who he is. That right representing Jordan. I did my job. What a little weasel this guy is? I love to say so Jim. Jordan says Lieutenant Colonel Vitamin the lawyer. Told you not to talk to your boss. Well no no no. He didn't tell me not to talk to my boss until he told me. Not Jerked Talk to my boss. Oh Okay and you didn't have time to talk to anybody right. Yeah that's right. I didn't have time to talk to anybody other than your brother. And other than the secretary and other than the whistle blower and other other than all the time to talk to them right and obviously this point of Inman has nothing to say so he just comes out and says Mr Jordan. I did my job no you. You didn't do your job. You did the opposite of your job. You know what Vin men refers to so much threat. This mindless testimony is how he did go to the bureaucrats bureaucrats. He did. Go to the interagency the interagency. That's the term that keeps coming up. He did go to the federal bureaucracy but he didn't go to his boss us. He didn't follow the chain of command. He didn't follow the president's policy the interagency. That's the battle here. The president the elected guys the American Eric people versus the decisions of the interagency. The federal bureaucracy. The deep state this guy then men is is an operative with an agenda. He's just admitted it himself. How do we? Let's let's put not to put to a point on it but let's see if this weasel bill can can just finally come right out and say what he really wants to which is that he believes it is the job of himself. The job of the interagency interagency the job of the entrenched bureaucracy to make policy. And it's not the job of the elected. President of the United States. Is there a process to determine German official. US policy. Yes that is my job is to coordinate. US policy so throughout the preceding year. That I've been on staff I had undertaken in an effort to make sure we had a cohesive coherent US policy and as you listen to the call. Did you observe whether president trump was following the talking points based on the official. US Policy Council. The president could choose is to Use the talking points or not the president but they were not consistent with what I provided yes the temerity of that response response that response by the way is to the Democratic Council the Temerity of the Democrat Council asking if Lieutenant Colonel VIND men made sure that the president of the United States was following his talking points unofficial. US policy just the question itself. The the question basically boils down to WHO MAKES US policy. Environment doesn't wait one little second he says I make US policy. No you don't dude dude you know who makes. US foreign policy the president of the United States. You don't get to dictate to the president of the United States. What the policy is and you don't get to dictate to the president of the United States? What he should say about? What the policy is you are a functionary? You work for him. You should keep your mouth shut and do what the President of the United States tells you to do. Because guess what none of us elected Lieutenant Colonel Kinman and after that testimony none of us really really seemed like lieutenant colonel of inman. Not a very likable guy. He's a power hungry bureaucrat and oppress about it too we elected trump. Maybe you don't like trump too bad. That's your job. Do Your job. Then men thinks that he makes policy him and the interagency is what he said. The interagency policy was is just support secretary. It was to support security assistance for the Ukraine. Hey you know what I think of the interagency policy when it comes into conflict with the policy of our duly represented duly duly elected representatives. This I think flick off underneath my chin. That's what I think he says. In in my position I coordinate with a superb cohort of interagency. Portland's I bet you coordinate. Four Day with the president of the United States and shut your mouth into your job. He says quote I'm the point man for coordinating the interagency. I don't care who you are and I don't care what your title is. I don't care about you. Lieutenant Colonel. Vitamin A. Care about the American people having control over their own government and you following the orders of the elected representatives. Nobody elected this guy. Hi He wants representative. Nunez have more respect for his military title about Lieutenant. Colonel Vitamin show some respect to to his civilian superiors namely Devon Nunez namely his boss on the National Security Council namely the president of the United States. In this this country. The civilians run the show not the military. I have great respect for the military. I don't have a ton of respect for women but I have a lot of respect for the military and by the way most of my pals in the military know that in this country the civilians run the show about the interagency. I got friends who've worked at the interagency. The good ones are the ones who know that. The civilians run the show in particular the elected representatives not some some technocrat tyrants in the deep state okay. Do you know who runs the show in this country. Not any of the punks like Eric. Chara Mela allegedly who who are shredding our Constitution. Because they don't like that the American people elected the wrong candidate in two thousand sixteen. This is not even about the left versus the right. This is is not even a bad democrat versus Republican. I mean it is in so much as the left likes the entrenched bureaucracy. A lot more than the right tends to but you know. Republicans like the bureaucracy. Chrissy sometimes too if a Democratic president right now we're threatening the technocratic status quo you can bet that the deep state would be going after them to. This is a major threat to the country. This is a major threat because it actually transcends partisan differences in the partisan divide and it gets right down to the heart of who we are. Are we going to be a country. That's run by a good experts with nice ties. All well tied up and good looking jackets on who nobody likes them. And they don't have any real powers designated in the constitution but they know better for us. So they're gonNA make policy and the president and he just better go along with it and by the way if he doesn't go along with it we're gonNA throw him out of office and who cares. What the American people say? There's that possibility or self government in our constitutional order. We get to decide. Obviously people lieutenant. Colonel Edmon have made their decision. I think we should probably make another decision. The only way that this is going to resolve itself delve deep state is defeated the deep state the deep state. It's a real thing it's called the bureaucracy. You just saw major representative of it right now. The deep state does not want to voluntarily give up power because what the deep state thinks is that the electrodes come and go political winds change but they are always going to be there. Are We need to seriously deplete their power. I actually like a lot of the agencies and the bureaucracy I think they do some good good work but they have become far too powerful and if they are going to try to take sovereignty they're going to try to take the control of making policy in the United States states away from the American people. They must be defeated. You know there was the line in ancient Rome. CARTHAGO DELENDA S. Carthage must be destroyed. The deep state celente estimate must be defeated if we are to preserve our self-government all right. We've got to say about facebook and Youtube head on over to daily Wire Dot Com ten bucks a month one hundred..
"colonel kinman" Discussed on The Lawfare Podcast
"That the they they were looking at dates at the end of May so honing in on that timeframe we were aware of president. Trump's plans to travel on either end and so that's why we advise the Ukrainians that if vice president pence where to be able to participate the only really available days would be made. The thirtieth may thirty first or June first and before the vice president travels to a foreign nation to send the secret service. Do you advance workbook hotels. And it's it's a relatively involved preparation experience right. That's correct and did the secret service ever deployed booked hotels or anything of that sort. My understanding is that our advanced. The team was looking into those preparations including hotel availability and we were trying to determine when it would be appropriate to send out secret service and other advanced dance personnel in order to lay groundwork for a trip but because we weren't sure yet when the date would be hesitated to send those officials out but ultimately the secret services. I understand it did not deploy. I don't believe they did now. Okay and the president's own excuse. Inauguration was may twentieth. If I'm not mistaken yes that's correct and you had about four days notice in the end. The Ukrainian parliament decided on May sixteenth to set the date for May twentieth. That's correct so you would acknowledge that that made it quite difficult for the vice president and the whole operation to mobilize and and get over to Ukraine correct. It would have been but we had already stopped the trip planning by that point. And when did that happen stopping the plan on May thirteenth. Okay and how did you hear about that. I was called by by colleague in my the Vice President's chief of staff office US and told to stop the trip planning okay and as I understand it was the assistant to the chief of staff. That's correct okay. So you didn't hear about it from General Kellogg or the Chief of staff for correct or the president or the vice president heard about it from Mr Shorts Assistant. That's right and did. Did you have any any knowledge of the reasoning for stopping the trip. I asked my colleague why we should stop trip. Planning why vice president would not be attending and I was informed is that the president had decided. The vice president would not attend the inauguration. And but do you know why the president decided no she did not have that information okay and ultimately the vice president went to Canada for a US MCA event. That's right during this. This window of time correct correct. So it's it's entirely conceivable that. The president decided that he wanted the vice president to go to Canada on behalf of US MCA instead of doing anything else correct. I'm really not in a position to speculate. What the motivations were behind the president's decision the vice president's done quite a bit of us events correct yesterday? and Are you aware of whether the anyone at the State Department inquired with your office about the vice president's availability for the trip to Canada for the chip at what point early May maybe may eight I. I was not involved in the trip planning for Canada. One of my colleagues who covers western Western Hemisphere was was in charge. I'm not aware of specific requests about the vice president's visibility. I was aware from my colleague who was planning that trip that we we had competing trips potentially window but I was told that the Ukraine trip would take priority but ultimately you don't know I don't no about the candidate trip you don't know the reason as to why the vice president was sent to Canada for a USO event. Instead of going to the Ukraine. I I would say I don't know the reason behind why the president directed the vice president not to go to Ukraine. Can't speak to the motivations or about the candidate trips Colonel Kinmen. I'd like to turn a little bit to the July tenth meeting in Ambassador Bolton's office and the subsequent subsequent post meeting in the Ward Room July tenth. Meeting the best of your recollection. Are we talking about the word room. Are we talking about the actual meeting with embassador Bolton. We'll start with the first meeting in the ambassador's office so from the US side we had Ambassador Bolton Dr Hill I believe There was another special assistant to the president. Wells Griffin Griffin was in there from myself from the Ukrainian the Ukrainian. Oh sorry for the Ukrainian side we had Alexander. Don You look under year mark and I think Alexander Deng looks Advisor Alexis in many okay and you testified that you couldn't recall exactly why Ambassador Bolton Stop the meeting short and you only learn it subsequently subsequently in talking to Dr Fiona Hill noted that you know it ended up abruptly but I didn't frankly I didn't didn't exactly know why. And in the in the Bolton meeting you don't remember Ambassador Sunlen using the word Biden. He did not think he did. And then the group decamped to take a photo correct correct okay so the general feeling of the group was a positive one at that time. Even though it may have ended abruptly I got embassador. Bolton was exceptionally qualified. He understood the the the The strategic communications opportunity of having a photo and we prompted him to to before we completely adjourned and to see if he was willing to do a photo he did see went out to west executive adver wherever in the White House. And you took a photo. I think you said you took it. I certainly took a couple of them. Yes okay okay. And then the photo is secretary. Perry Ambassador Bolton Ambassador Volker. That's right Mr Donnie. Look and Mr Jahr Mark Yes yes and I apologize when I was running through the Of course embassador Bolton Volcker and Solomon were there secretary. Perry was there. Okay now. You testified that before the July tenth meeting you had developed concerns about the narrative involving Rudy. Giuliani is that correct. That is correct and had you heard a firsthand account from anyone on the inside or do you just been following news accounts so I certainly certainly was following news accounts. And that's from the Ukrainian side Ukrainian press and US press and then my colleagues in the inner agency also concerned about this as this had started in the march timeframe kind of emanating from the John Solomon story all the way through so we there had been ongoing conversation so several different sources And so when they're sunland mentioned the investigations instigations. You sort of had a little bit of a clue of what the issue was definitely okay and then you took the photo very nice photo and then you went to the war room correct and do you remember. I think you can see to. You'd hard time remembering exactly what was said in the room again. It's four months ago. It's hard to be precise about whether sidelined what specific words he used whether you use Barista twenty sixteen investigations is got so I I believe in the deposition the three elements Bergamo Biden's and the two thousand sixteen elections were all mentioned in the word room correct. I think I think maybe we can maybe go back to this but I think on page sixty four of your testimony. You told us that that you don't remember him using twenty sixteen in the ward room. I believe that I actually follow it up and when you because this question question was asked multiple times I said all three elements were in there so okay so only ask the question. It's sort of refreshing recollection. Yes I guess. That's a terminal. There was Some discussion of whether when Mr Morrison took over the portfolio for Dr Hill whether you were a sidelines at all did you feel like you were so certainly. was excluded or didn't participate in the trip to Ukraine Moldova Belarus at the end of August and I wasn't Initially before it changed from a trip to vice vice president trip to Warsaw I wasn't participating in that one so I didn't didn't miss that. No did you express any concerns to Mr Marsan about why you weren't included on those trips so Mr Morrison. I was on. Leave my supposed to be on. Leave from the third of August through about this the sixteenth or so of August and he called me and asked me to return there. There was obviously a high priority traveled to the region. He needed my assistance to help plan for it and asked me to return early. Leave which I take infrequently. I assume that I'd be gone on the trip so when I was after returning from leave early when I was told I wasn't going. I inquired about it correct. Okay and what feedback did he give you. He he initially told me that the the Aircraft that was acquired. The mill was too small and there wasn't enough room did have you ever had any discussions with Mr Morrison about concerns that he or Dr Hill had with your judgment. Did I ever have any conversations stations with Mr Morrison about it. No okay. Did Mr Morrison ever express concerns to you that he he he thought. Maybe you weren't following the chain of command. In all instances he did not and Dr Hill. Were Mr Morrison. Ever asked you questions about whether whether you're trying to access information outside of your lane. They did not and another. You know aspect of the Ukraine crane portfolio that you were not a part of where some of the communications Mr Morrison was having with embassador Taylor correct and did you ever express concern and he was leaving you off those calls. Well certainly it was concerning He had just come on board. He didn't have the he he wasn't steeped all the items that we were working on including a policy that we developed over the preceding months and I thought I could contribute to that too is to the performance of his duties When you were you went to Ukraine for the inauguration and correct twentieth at any point during that trip did Mr Donnie? Look offer you a position of Defense Minister with the Ukrainian government he did. And how many times did he do that. I I believe it was Three times any reason why he asked you to do that. I don't know but every single time I dismissed it upon upon returning. I notified my chain of command and the The appropriate counterintelligence folks about this offer Ukraine's a country that's experience a a war with Russia. Certainly Their Minister of Defense is pretty key position for the Ukrainians presidents. Alinsky Mr Donahue Luke go to the store that honor on your at least asking you. That was a big honour correct. I think it would be a great honor and frankly I'm aware of servicemembers that I have left service to help. Nurture the developing democracies in that part of the world certainly in the Baltics former from our officers and if I recall correctly does Air Force officer that became Minister of Defense. But I'm an American. I came here when I was a toddler and and I immediately dismissed these offers it not entertain them when when he when he made this offer to you initially. Did you leave the door. Open was the the reason that he had to come back. And ask you a second third time or is he just trying to convince you council you know what the whole notion is rather comical that. I was being asked to to consider whether I'd want to be Minister of defense. I did not leave the door open at all but it is pretty funny for Lieutenant Colonel in the United States army three. which really isn't that? Not that senior to be offered that LUSTIEST position when when he made this offer to you Was He speaking in English or Ukrainian. Oh Mr Dinesh look is a absolutely flawless English speakers speaking in.
"colonel kinman" Discussed on Here & Now
"Excuse me on behalf of my client. We are following the rule of the committee rule of the chair with regard to this issue and this does not call for an answer that is invoking the fifth or any theoretical issue like that. We're following wake of the chair. That's Vin men's counsel Michael Volkov Republicans also focused on the Democrats choice of words. They've moved from quid pro quo. Oh to bribery. Because it's easier to understand. It's also mentioned in the constitution as a high crime. Here's a republican congressman. John Ratcliffe it briefly started to refer to the the president's conduct on the July twenty fifth call extortion and now it's shifted again last week to bribery Ms Williams and you use the word unusual to describe the president's call last on July twenty fifth. Lieutenant Colonel Veneman used the word inappropriate improper. I've word searched each of your transcripts and the word bribery or bribe doesn't appear anywhere in that is Williams. You didn't you've never used the word bribery or bribed to explain. Explain President Trump's conduct correct Nassar. Colonel Edmund you have an either correct. Democrats kept returning to that July twenty fifth phone call. Here's the Democratic Council. Daniel Goldman. Let's go to another excerpt from this call. Where president trump asked presidents Alinsky to investigate his political the opponent Vice President Joe Biden here? President trump says the other thing. There's a lot of talk about Biden son. That Biden Stop the prosecution and a lot of people. WanNa find out about that so whatever you can do. With the attorney general would be great Biden. Went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution. So if you can look into who it. It sounds horrible to me. He said again. Colonel Veneman was this included in your talking points. It was such a request to investigate a political opponent consistent with official US policy it was not consistent with the policies sees. I understood it now. Are you aware of any credible allegations or evidence to support this notion that that Vice President Biden did something wrong or against. US policy with regard to Ukraine. I am not Miss Williams. Are you familiar with any credible evidence to support this theory against Vice President Biden. Now I'm not now Miss Williams prior to the July Twenty Fifth Call Hall approximately. How many calls between president the president the United States and foreign leaders had you listened to I would say roughly a dozen? Have you ever heard a call like this as I testified before I believe what I found an unusual different about this call was the president's reference to specific acidic investigations. That struck me as different than other calls. I listen to you testify that you thought it was political in nature. What did why? How did you think that I thought that the references to specific individuals investigations such as former Vice President Biden and his son struck me as political in nature given that the former vice president is a political opponent of the president? So you thought that it could potentially be designed to assist Mr President. Trump's reelection effort I can't speak to what the president's motivation was referencing. It but I just noted that the reference to Biden end sounded political to me. Colonel Kinman you you said in your deposition that it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the political the benefits of the president's demands for those of us who are not rocket scientists. Can you explain what you meant by that. So my understanding is that it was the connection to investigate until political opponent was inappropriate and improper. I made that.
"colonel kinman" Discussed on The Argument
"I mean given how panicked you and I are the notion of second trump term. What is it you hope? Democrats do to maximize their odds of winning. I mean I honestly don't know how to answer that because I sort of feel like you know to me. The primary innocence is going to show us which candidates have the potential to excite large numbers of people. And it might not be the candidates that people talk on cable. TV for a living. Get excited about. I also think that we should consider and I'm not real honestly sure what the answer is. But I think it's worth considering with some of these. He's billionaires whether they're worried that Elizabeth Warren will lose or whether they're worried that she'll win but I think that you know if she pulls this out if she wins these early states that is in itself a sign that she's able to speak to large numbers of people in the American electorate address not the Democratic Party electorate in these primary states is totally representative. But it's really the best metric we have. I think there's a lot of polling polling that suggests that Medicare for all could be an Albatross for Democrats but I think that it's very likely that Elizabeth Warren position that you know Michael. Michael Bloomberg hates the most is her wealth tax which is not likely to be a political problem for Democrats in the general election. And I think there's an obvious way it would help Warren to have someone standing on stage running against her to whom she can directly say. I'm going to tax you Mr Bloomberg. I think that's a good moment for her and I think she should relish the opportunity and on that note we will leave this discussion and come right back. One year ago trump trump administration official wrote an anonymous op Ed for the Times describing the chaos inside the White House and the internal efforts to thwart trump's agenda that same official now has a book out. It's damaging portrayal of the president at one point. It likens trump to your elderly uncle running around Pants Seles and cursing loudly. The book also contains a kind of mea culpa acknowledging that the so-called quiet resistance inside the administration is not. I'm doing a very good job of constraining trump Ross. Shortly after trump's election in two thousand sixteen you wrote that for the good of the country Sirius Republicans even even those who'd been very critical of his campaign should go work for him and try to restrain him. Do you still think that was the right choice for them. And can those resistors. There's still play a positive role today. Well those are separate questions right. There was once Donald Trump was elected. President there was no way he was not going to be president. Resident for at least most of his first term and the presidency is an awesomely powerful office and trump was by general agreement demint unfit for it. Certainly totally unprepared for it and you know there were a lot of ways in which it was much much better for the United States to have have Jim Mattis running the Department of Defense rather than Newt Gingrich to just pick sort of one particularly extreme example of how these things cashed out as has figures like madness and other lower level figures. who were I think? Fairly responsible actors have departed. The White House has become more incompetent. More chaotic and also worse in terms of specific policy outcomes With the sort of debacle on the Turkish Syrian border being being just sort of a prime example. And you know the anonymous op. Ed Writer has gotten a lot of grief I think for how he has or she has approached. This and I think the grief is understandable. I think the original op-ed made no sense at all that if you're sort of working inside the White House to constrain the president announcing I don't sing that you're doing so anonymously in the New York. Times is basically just like injecting more paranoia and chaos into the system. You're trying to control. I think for an anonymous Mr Trump official to say basically don't re elect. This guy is a reasonable use of sort of the power that you assume when you work in the administration nations so in that sense I think it sort of defensible to say I worked for this guy I tried to constrain him. I feel the constraints of failed. He's up for reelection. Don't vote for him. I guess my view is that in less people put names and faces to it unless they're willing to come out and do it in a courageous way not behind a veil of anonymity. Yeah I don't think it's going to persuade anyone who's currently a trump supporter and so to me I. I'm not impressed by this. I am impressed by the people from within the State Department and other parts of the bureaucracy who are willing to risk their reputations and become the subject of these scurrilous false nasty attacks to testify. Hi about what. Trump has done on Ukraine. But I don't know Michelle. Do you think there is a positive role for the anonymous. Descriptions of of the chaos inside. The White House wasn't part of the problem. Is that for my understanding of the book. And at least the excerpts that have been released so far. It doesn't tell us anything that we didn't already. Yeah no I mean look. I think there's positive whatever chips away at this nightmare but first of all this person could obviously do a lot more good by by going public at this point and they also could do a lot more good if they told us something that is new and the Ukraine scandal has been. I think a sign of how much we don't know I do have to say that. You know the parade of people kind of you know from the bureaucracy. CRECY coming forward. Giving testimony has actually challenged my earlier view that there is no excuse for anybody to work with or be complicit in this administration because you can see that there are really good patriotic competent people who have tried to to keep the functioning of American power somewhat on-track in the midst of this Mellstrom. But I also think that what Ross said before about how you know things things were kind of better when you had these kind of competent figures in positions of power is almost an argument against them. Because I think what they allowed us to do is to become acclimated to something something that we shouldn't become acclimated to write because it sort of held together for the first couple of years even as the shocks got bigger and bigger and bigger and now the country has has sort of lost the ability to respond appropriately. In three years they've taken what was a flawed but great republic and just let it devolve into another squalid oligarchy. We're never going to be the country that we were again and when I think about all the people that provided cover her tillerson Kelly Mattis all these people who reportedly know what trump is are. Not Speaking out you know Dina Powell all of them the amount of shame that should fall on their shoulders again. It's just monumental I guess I I mean I disagree I I I would put it this way. I think it's reasonable for people to be upset at figures like Mattis. I mean I think what Madison's done since he left left dod is sort of retreat into the position that he's a military man and the military should speak out against an elected president which I think is generally correct but when he took that job he was taking a civilian job. He was not occupying military office and so he played a civilian role in the functioning of the republic and and if he thinks as I think he manifestly does think the Donald trump should not be reelected. Then I think there is a pretty good argument that he has an obligation to speak out and not just crack jokes folks about trump at the Al Smith dinner. I think though on the on the question about people serving in the first place I guess I prize the world not descending into a Maelstrom of violence more than I fear this sort of normalization that that creates like I don't want jared Kushner alone one in charge of US foreign policy. I guess my point yes and I'm certainly not saying that it's worth letting the world devolve into a Maelstrom of violence in order to show. How bad trump is that was? I was being extreme house being extreme. But so are you so no. My point is that I actually think that like if we think back to the early months of the trump administration when there was still a lot of so talk and I think more of a will to resist among Republicans. I think that if he had tried some of what he's done lately then he would have been shut down much more quickly and then beyond national security. How do you explain a Gary Cohen or some of these other figures? There's certainly no honor in basically letting trump payoff rich people with a tax cut enough to create some sort of stability and then slinging away and going back on the Davos circuit as he burns the republic to the ground but trump's but trump's tax cut was the most normal thing that he did this entire administration and cone. I mean right but by by engineering that by engineering that he bought himself a lot of time but but cone but counterargument would be I was. I was preventing trump from pulling out of NAFTA and starting sixteen different trade wars and pitching the US into a recession. And I wear. I agree what you said. I think your obligation to serve in this administration diminishes the further you get from the powers of life and death for military power but guys like Conan Mnuchin people. Who are you know? Well Look Mnuchin is just a weasel right. I mean the idea. That MNUCHIN has any loyalty to this country or as fellow citizens you know you don't even expected of him but but you know cone does at least present himself as a somewhat kind of upstanding citizen instead of just like slimy third-rate Griff Ter- and so I don't see why he should be treated any differently. There's just fine if he's going to excuse what he did in his administration by saying he held things together then it's incumbent on him to speak out now and the fact that he's not speaking out now suggests that maybe he doesn't think it's that bad or just cares more about his political local connections then the future of the country. Ross you mentioned mattis a couple minutes ago and I do think Madison's a really interesting case because mattis it has an independent reputation. Unlike Lieutenant Colonel Kinman who was not at all a famous figure coming into the last few weeks mattis was and and I've been just really struck by his lack of courage about this and what's interesting to me. Is I think his excuse that you don't criticize a sitting president if you're in the military I don't even think that's honest because Mattis did in fact criticize Barack Obama when Barack Obama was president And so so I feel like in the end..
"colonel kinman" Discussed on MSNBC Morning Joe
"I've written the whole process off. He of course demanded these transcripts. Said Adam Schiff in your committee make these public or else. Your Committee made them public and now he says I'm not even going to read the transcripts because the process is a sham that seems to be where Republicans have landed. Yeah it's embarrassing to watch. It's hard to watch watch and that's not a person with any credibility anymore. That's the person asserting that they don't care that clear and convincing evidence. They're being presented with soon in public by the way eighth and soon in a trial in his body of the United States. Senate is something that does not interest him he is. He is immune from facts in evidence. That's what's happening in those trump strong area of the country. And it's a real problem and guys like Lindsey Graham. Well God bless his heart is they say in the South Mike. That's the chair of the judiciary this year committee Lindsay. Graham says I will not look at the evidence transcripts that raises the question of your fellow members of the the Intelligence Committee listening in the skiff Secure Facility Republicans sitting there. Do they pay attention to us being said today. Read the transcripts to your knowledge. Are they present to hear. These people respond to inquiries very few of them but those people have included the president's most ardent defenders one or two of them Jim Jordan Mark Meadows most of the intelligence committee members have not been as active in the in these proceedings and most of the Republican members. Excuse me and most of the members who were complaining about access and who had it never showed up we don. It's been a cynical exercise their complaints on process. Would you expect to hear from John. Bolton and Mick Mulvaney look I think they have important evidence and the American public deserves that evidenced by the way the State Department is in possession of an enormous amount of documentation contemporaries notes notes emails other corroboration or reputation of the of the testimony of these witnesses. There's no excuse for withholding that we needed and I'd like the testimony of with any witness with knowledge. If you want to hear testimony from Mike Pompeo and Rudy Giuliani. I think both of those gentlemen have a lot of tough questions to answer whether it's going to be productive SUV trying to get them in the chair under oath or whether we have sufficient evidence to move forward I think he's a harder question defer to the chairman on that. I think the American public public deserves to know what happened here. Plain and simple fair thorough. But let's move it as well and I think if we can explain exactly what happened with with clear clear convincing evidence. Then that's the important thing you know. Willie you do have the chairman of the Judiciary Committee making laughable arguments. Ah Humiliating himself. And maybe that will work in this primary in South Carolina. That will not work in Maine for Susan. Collins will not work in Colorado for Cory Gardner that will not work in North Carolina for Thom Tillis. I don't know Tom's good enough politician to figure that out. Looks like he's GonNa run the cars straight into the wall all his campaign straight in the wall also he can lose for Donald Trump but there is the White House obviously sending out talking points last last night on the show and Fox News Sunlen and Ukrainian officials were dismissing some low level. Guy a will and then Willie. Of course Lindsey talked about some guy. The some guy was was the person that was running. What John Bolton described as Rudy Rudy Giuliani and Donald Trump's? Drug deal across Europe. He was a guy that showed up. Sunlen was the guy that showed up across Europe and he was the president of the United States. Point Man on this quote drug deal and Lindsey Graham is now claiming that he's a nobody a a after after the guy himself is propped himself up Ambassedor of Europe for the past several years. It's not it's not sellable story by Republicans and they're fools if they think Americans are going to blindly follow along with and let's remember he's a political appointee. Say it again. Give a million dollars to the trump inaugural committee. He's a hotel guy from Oregon. He was put in this job as the ambassador to the EU having nothing to do with Ukraine but he was deputized ties is what some of these witnesses have called a shadow foreign policy. A shadow effort outside and independent of the State Department led by Rudy Giuliani. To make this quid pro quo happened. He was the guy the congressman points that he was the guy talking to the Lenzi's aid and making the deal. This is firsthand as it gets. So genitally generally predictable joe that the that the White House would dismiss him. They've done it to anybody who's cross them all. I hardly knew him. I don't know if you've met the guy they can't do it in this case is this is a handpicked guy. Plans to the and then as I said deputized to run this operation. They can't do it. The thing is again that you should Republicans need to look at the election results over the past couple of years including last night in Virginia and the Kentucky Governor's race and understand again you. You're talking about his low approval ratings there about twenty points higher than Mitch McConnell's in that state they they can't play this game and get away with it. And how fascinating that Sunland Amblin said that it got more insidious over time and could not even could not even testify that it was not illegal suggested listed that what happened just might be illegal now. Heidi let's project four talk about what's going to happen when we go to the public phase of these hearings. What are the Democrats have planned out right Joe? So I've been speaking to Democrats close to the impeachment process and they say they are not waiting for these witnesses continue to be no shows that they are already pushing into the next public phase which will be public testimony which they want to start no later than two weeks from. I'm now in. I am told last night. According to sources that there are three candidates that they believe are the strongest witnesses at this point that they are going to be calling for were. Those are the former ambassador. Marie Yo Yo von Vich who gave that compelling testimony about how. She was essentially bullied out of her job in Ukraine. Also also Taylor Ambassador Taylor who essentially replaced her and testified that there was a quid pro quo and it was his understanding that it was being directed by by the president to withhold military aid to a country that is essentially under attack from Russia. The third witness would be Alexander Vitamin C A Lieutenant Colonel Colonel in the army who still serves the NFC who was on that phone call and off also can testify to the quid pro quo and that he was so concerned about it that he took it twice. Tried to take it twice to White House attorneys now. What I'm told is that this is going to be very different from the Mueller investigation? And and that Democrats believe that the witness these witnesses are going to be so compelling because they're actually fact witnesses that it's GonNa make it very hard for a lot of these Republicans To look away from this evidence because they're going to be providing firsthand accounts all right. How deep is Bill? Thank you very much. If only we're in a position to have someone confirmed that reporting reporting we are congressman. What do you make of that schedule that Heidi just laid out sound smart? Sounds like a good schedule. Look those are those are credible career people who have very important testimony and it should break people's hearts to hear this story in full. I'm glad the transcripts are coming out so you can all see what a lot of us heard word personal ready. It's not a pleasant story is a story of decent people crushed under the wheels of a political grimy operation designed to advance Rudy Giuliani's financial interests the president's political interests everything but America's national security. It's an abusive power These are good people with good testimony and ask yourself why there have been no leaks about testimony by the Republican side. It's not because they don't leak. It's it's because there are no facts favorable to the president From these people with knowledge not because they have a bias or point of view but because they have knowledge of what happened and we should have the contemporary needs documentation of that from the State Department. Their notes their emails. If there's any question about it let's see all but I'm very glad the public is going to see this for itself. Obviously Mark Meadows and Jim Jordan aren't going anywhere. Do you see any cracks in your private conversations with Republican. Colleagues fringy may have on the committee or in the larger Congress us as they look at this evidence. Now Gordon Son Lieutenant. Colonel Kinman didn't do it for you bill. Taylor's testimony didn't do it for you. Do you think sunlen changes anything for some of them you know. I think it's a sad statement when the people with the most concerns are the least vocal there are absolutely members of the Republican Party. Who in private will hang their heads? Say Well I don't know I know I'm trying to understand what investor Taylor saying. I've seen it. Yes you don't hear him in public and now is the time for courage. Now is the time for leadership from those the voice in the Republican Party. Because what's going to happen. I'm afraid you're GONNA see the elevation of extremists Mr Meadows like Mr Jordan. And they're going turn this thing up trying to discredit testimony. That is credible. We know what happened here. It's not seriously in dispute. You want to have an argument about whether impeachable about whether we should wait to an election. I guess that's something you can kick around for me personally. It's clear abuse of presidential power. It cannot be okay okay. In our country for United States president any president to go to a foreign leader and ask for help in his election. It's wrong.
"colonel kinman" Discussed on Anderson Cooper 360
"The House the rules committee just now advancing a resolution to establish procedures for the impeachment inquiry now the measure which was unveiled earlier this week establishes procedures for public impeachment hearings the release of deposition transcripts outlines the judiciary committee's role Republicans on the panel offered a number of amendments to the resolution all of which eld on party line votes which the rest of the breaking news tonight paint a picture of the run-up to president trump's phone call with Ukraine's Presidents Alinsky to the pressure national security staffer Alexandrova Edmund says he believed was being applied at the president's behest sources telling CNN's Jake Tapper. Though Lieutenant Colonel Ann Veneman was convinced the president was holding up military aid Hugh crain to announce a pro with the Biden's he said this quid pro quo was clear during a July tenth meeting which has also been described as a clash between those who were leaning on you train those then national skyser John Bolton who wanted no part of it or now from CNN Sara Murray weeks ahead of President Trump's contra reversal July twenty fifth phone call with Ukrainian president that sparked the impeachment inquiry the rift over Ukraine spilled out in a series of dramatic White House meetings on July Tenth Ukraine Secretary of National Security and Defense Council traveled to Washington to meet with then National Security Adviser John Bolton then special envoy to Ukraine Voelker Ambassador to the EU Gordon Sunlen and Energy Secretary Rick Perry US career national security officials who are experts on Ukraine in Russia Fiona Hill Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vitamin were also there in public it was all smiles Perry tweeted a picture of the delegation the Americans heaped praise on their Ukrainian counterparts tweeting great discussion good teamwork we stand with Ukraine privately though things were going sour the Ukrainians were angling for an in person meeting in between newly elected President Dolinsky and president trump an important sign of solidarity between the US and Ukraine as the country continued to face threats from Russia embassador sunland started to speak about Ukraine delivering specific investigations in order to secure the meeting with the president at which time Ambassador Bolton cut the meeting short in men the White House's expert on Ukraine testified Tuesday or want to thank Colonel Vin men for his courage in coming forward after Bolton cut the meeting short continued the meeting in another room where he talked with the Ukrainians and pressed once again for the political investigations. President trump was demanding vin mom testified editor Sunlen emphasize the importance that Ukraine deliver the investigations into the two thousand sixteen election the Biden's and Barista then Vincent Hill Confronted Sunlen stated to embassador Sunland that has statements for inappropriate that the request to investigate Biden and his son had nothing to do with national security and that such investigations were not something the Z. was going to get involved in or push vitamin testified Dr Hill then entered the room and asserted to ambassador Sunland that statements were inappropriate and heard Ambassador online tell the Ukrainians that to get a White House meeting that they needed to deliver on investigations into Vice President Biden that Anderson is this for that in other words a quid pro quo but when someone testified before congressional investigators he offered a different version of events saying if ambassador Bolton Dr Hill or other harbored any misgivings about the propriety of what we were doing they never shared those misgivings with me then or later he also said he was not aware that Barista the Ukrainian energy company Hunter Biden served on the board of was connected to the Biden's until much later Bolton encouraged failed to report which had seen to a National Security Council lawyer Hilton investigators the Bolton exclaimed he wasn't going to get involved in whatever drug deal Sunlen and acting chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney cooking up sources told C. N. drawn is a very important witness he has very relevant information and we do want him to come in and testify and Sara Murray Cnn Washington and again as late evening his attorney says he will not testify without a subpoena on clear though whether he will fight a subpoena if it comes back now with John Dean Jen Psaki Jeff Toobin Jen hearing the details isn't that July tenth meeting it is really startling especially given ambassador sunland whose testimony he either seems to have forgotten about a lot of things that occurred because there were a bunch of stuff he he also said he just didn't remember or he was flat out not telling the truth I mean someone here is not being accurate right and clearly at this point it appears that Ambassador Sunland is on one side of this in terms of his storyline and everybody this is testified is on the other end and it just so happens that investor sunlen is a trump supporter and a donor to the president and that's how we got the job ambassador he's not actually your career diplomats that's true and I would also add that foreign service officers career diplomats and we're seeing this with Bill Taylor they take meticulous notes and they see it as part of their job Bob to protect the institution and also stand between political movements political appointees and bad actions this is obviously a terrible case of that and and the national ski the United States so that's what we're seeing play out here as as Congressman Heim said I would expect the Democrats will want to see ambassador sunland again and hear from him publicly to clear up some the confusion here we'll call it and John I mean just the fact that that Bolten quickly ended the meeting as soon as Sunland starts you know putting the screws into the Ukrainians is fascinating it's very telling the only reason he would do that is because his discomfort with what was going on this is the sort of thing that makes his testimony before the committee important and it also could later evolve into a criminal in quiry whether that would happen while trump is still president or not as is questionable but it certainly something that's got to be in his mind so he in a number of these meetings this effort it is I think we have to judge like what would you do if you had all the time in the world and you could invest in an interview anymore when you want you would certainly interview Rick Perry but the Democrats are dealing with a largely self imposed but a real calendar where they wanna get impeachment resolve base weekly by the end of the year they have to decide which witnesses they can they can get who will not fight them in court and who they can just get right right away under oath Sunland I think is almost certain to be called back I wouldn't wanNA call him a perjurer At this point you know there are often divergent memories and we haven't even seen the full transcripts of his testimony yet but certainly it seems like sunland should be given another chance to refresh his recollection and maybe testify more expensively than he did before yeah everyone's socratic much more to discuss about the events on Capitol Hill today and tomorrow we're another day of testimony coincide with that big vote on the impeachment resolution hey everyone a brand new boss files episode is it is our one hundredth episode and we're so excited to continue sharing these inspiring conversation with you on our cast I sat down with former Goldman Sachs oh boy blank mind at the citizen by CNN conference live event with newsmakers across industries to talk about critical issues this story is fascinating being born in public housing in Brooklyn making it the Harvard by age sixteen and then making millions on Wall Street so he knows both sides of the Erbil tracks I asked him what he thinks of Bernie Sanders statement that billionaire should not exist in America he also told me he's open to the rich pay more in taxes and says capitalism is not dead but it must be more fair so check it out today and subscribe to boss hey it's Howard Beck and I've got Chicago Bulls Insider Casey Johnson on bleacher report still full forty eight for Nineteen Year old kid he's to me way past were I thought he would be so I'm buying all the Kobe whites doc right now the full forty eight is available each week on the bleacher report APP and you can subscribe free at apple podcasts again the breaking news tonight the House Rules Committee just moments ago proving guidelines and procedures for the next public phase of the impeachment hearings full House to vote on tomorrow John Dean Jen Psaki and Jeffrey Toobin June the House vote tomorrow how much of an upper does he give Democrats movie and forward if any because it I mean it's really not GonNa Change you know the the White House's level of cooperation I think Anderson it's sets the rules for moving Ford and as Geoffrey kind of talked about briefly earlier in the show you know Democrats have a self imposed timeline here they have done a lot of behind the door behind the scenes editions but moving it to the public is also in their interest so this this puts in place some rules they don't expect Republican votes that would certainly be a surprise they know they could lose him Democrat that's but it kind of moves the process Ford and that certainly is in their interest to the to the public at this point in time Jefferson here the president urging Republicans to quote Go with stints it's almost like he's been watching news reports and people pointing out that the Republicans are going with process because they can't really are oh you substance or seem unwilling towards more complicated for them to do that is there any reason to believe substance is actually on the president's side reminds him when he was saying he really wants to go in testify in front of Molar when in fact there was no way he was going to go testify in front of Muller Well Yeah I mean he the Republicans can argue substance anytime want the president has said over and over again the phone call with the president of Ukraine was perfect he always uses that word was perfect well I haven't heard single member of Congress any Republican agree with him about that I mean you can argue substance if there is an argument to be made the residents argument is just not persuasive to anyone even in his own party so yes sure you could argue substance but you have to have a substantive argument in so far it's very difficult for them because the process argument for them as much more comfortable absolute John John I mean from your experience during Watergate how much do things change especially in the public attention and the stakes of everything when an enquiry goes into open hearings they're highly escalated when they go into open hearings and particularly when the White House doesn't want a witness to appear that only increases public interest I had that personal experience when they cancelled my testimony for a week when Brezhnev was coming to the United States and thought it inappropriate ivy testifying while a foreign visitor was here that just served increase the size of the audience and result eighty million people tuned in for a week of my testimony. Same thing's going to happen here if they get the about a particular witness the the public picks up the media of course picks it up and that will only increase interest in the proceedings but Jeff it's also interesting because with the molar testimony there was a lot of hype going into it and obviously You know certainly a lot of Democrats I think. were surprised at the tone the tenor of it anything he described here the two most likely witnesses so far are Colonel Kinman and the and ambassador elemen- Vincent I'm sorry both of them are eye-witnesses to events that are extremely dramatic and extremely important it's one thing to hear the colonel you know to have the phone call described by others the colonel can say this is what I heard and that's going to be very powerful stuff on who says experienced it personally next that's the end of the morning if the dragon experiment CBS We've been talking tonight in port about tax on those Republican or Democrat who cross president trump national security Colonel Alexander Van Minh is the latest the president has without any evidence called him never-trumper which the President says means he's human scum there's also no evidence that the top diplomat in Ukraine who's also testified Vietnam Vet Bill Taylor is a never-trumper these are just two of the latest vets and public servants the president has attacked of course he's done it many times before there was John McCain even after the Arizona senator's death president trump called him quote last in his class again not true and then there's Defense Secretary General James Mattis who was quote one of the most effective generals according to the.
"colonel kinman" Discussed on MSNBC Morning Joe
"That someone would openly question the loyalty of an American combat veteran in the name of partisan politics well it is a war to the New York Times Benjamin testified that some of his edits made it into the reconstructive transcript but not the ones about the tape and Zielinski Barista's my comment doubt to be incredible all because they didn't know that I had a transcript done by very very talented people word for word Comma for Comma done by people that do it for living I we had an exact transcript willie the lying delve ally is so it's taking aspirin I mean the actual document of that quote exact transcript released by the White House says on page what caution a memorandum uh-huh of a telephone conversation is not over Begum transcript of discussion the tax document records the notes and recollections of situation room duty officers and see policies staff assigned to listen to memorialize the conversation written form as a conversation takes place in not the transcripts or the president says exact transcript exact transcript word for word transcript comma for Comma he's lying we knew he was lying from day one just like we he was lying about Baghdadi that the dog whispered doing that Baghdadi whimpered and cried and this story about China calling Oh China cold last night the last night come on China call last night by the way which is like two billion called and now this exact transcript so we knew he was lying from the beginning but now we find out that they would not put in the most damaging parts VAT transcript and the lieutenant colonel tried to get them to do it and they reviews yeah we always knew this wasn't exact transcript how do we know because of what you just showed it was written on the top of the document that this was an actress no matter how many times the president says it suddenly become true clint watts the one of the lessons I think of this administration is that your suspicions usually end up being true and you see a bunch of ellipses in that summary that the White House put out of the phone call we wonder what was in those blanks and now you have Colonel Kinmen coming out and saying here's what was in the blanks mentioned of Joe Biden mentioned by Presidents Alinsky of Berea Smith and company on these four hundred and sat this testimony again from Colonel Van and we had it yesterday morning with the opening statement now very specific testimony confirming when most people suspected was that the White House house tinkered with the document and it also explains why they had it locked up in hidden in the full transcript in that classified server usually reserved for other top secret material is remarkable because every day we learn one more person that heard about this phone call that knew about this phone call that when they come forward or tried to do something the White House this colonel immediately tried to bring it up the chain of command he went to the NFC lawyer tried to bring this up he tried to correct that transcript that we Z. is missing these key elements of information and so when they get called you know to testify crew is going to say the truth right he he's serving this country for basically two decades he knows what this policy is that we're supposed to be pushing in Ukraine and so then when you watch both the Republicans and and Congressman when you watch the president immediately tear down this individuals credibility it just sticks out like a sore thumb that there is something going on that the White House wants to hide yeah you know and my object goodwill I was just GonNa say the president's attack was the Colonel Van Minh is a quote never trumper there's of course no evidence for that almost goes without saying there's no evidence for that and I thought it was interesting we asked yesterday morning would congressional Republicans fall in line with this line of attack on Colonel how a double agent because he speaks Ukrainian or whatever Sean Duffy was trying to say on CNN yesterday I didn't see a lot of Republicans going there they went other places tried to distract it was very interesting that it was almost limited to the TV talkers who had no stakes in it except to protect Donald Trump on television when confronted with this I didn't see a lot of congressional Republicans willing to go after the credibility of government in fact they defended him let's take a look now I also want to say a word about something else that's been going on over the course of the last several hours and last night which I think is also shameful and that is being the patriotism questioning the dedication to country of people like Mr van men Lieutenant Colonel Than Men who will be coming today and others who have testified I I think that we need to show that we are better than that as a nation their their patriotism their love of country we're talking about decorated veterans who have served this nation to put their lives on the line and it is shameful to question their patriotism their love of this nation we should not be involved in that process I thank him for his service I think it was commitment to this country but he's wrong in this question of patriotism of any of the people who are coming forward third and gusting and and way off the mark this is a decorated American soldier and he should be given the respect his service to our country demands so so Mike Barnacle you have Liz Cheney talking about how shameful this was yesterday morning Mitt Romney said it was disgusting and I thought it was very interesting what Mitch McConnell said and it was actually very important what Mitch McConnell said he didn't just defend Lieutenant Colonel Benjamin he said I'm not going to question the patriotism of any of these people coming forward here you had again Donald Trump and republicans trying for some time to do great violence to the whistleblower statutes that are suppose to keep our government you talk about keeping it transparent and keeping corruption out of it and Mitch talked about how we shouldn't question the patriotism of any of these people coming forward I thought that was very significant also just as a side note and maker will agree with me here I've been I've been unbelievably harsh on Mitch McConnell from very good and he had one of the more moving I thought one of the more meme moving remembrances of Elijah Cummings in the capital but you know think about think about the message we always talk about the message that Donald Trump sends across the world the bad message think about the message so this is sending to our allies across the world reminds me of a guy who came up to me several years ago when he said you Americans you Americans get it wrong all the time he said but in the end but in the end it's like a Hollywood movie you somehow right the ship and ended up where you're supposed to be I think at the end of the day we're talking about ending corruption in Ukraine Mike I think this message that venemen sins and this entire process that's that's the message that America wants to get out there not the donald trump is going to go down politically but that in America at the end of the day whistle blowers can come out they can be protected and yes even Republicans will defend them you know Joe What's interesting there are two levels of great interest in this story when it comes to Colonel Venemen one obviously is his courage in coming forward and takes a lot he still works in the NFC in the White House it takes a lot for him to come forward coupled with that is his personal story and when you see Colonel Vitamin right there coming into the capital at the top of his metal bracket on on his left hand side of his chest there is something that very few people oh have that you really don't go out of your way to get it's called the combat infantry badge I know that Sean Duffy does not have won it means you've been shot that you've been in an active combat situation but it's his personal story combined with the fact that he has the courage to come forward that I think would rivet the attention around the globe when they think about when the year about it he came to America with his twin brother his father and his grandmother when he was three years of age his family built a life in this country he escaped the Soviet Union yes yes they did they escaped the Soviet Union the Laura Ingram escaped the Soviet Union John You escaped the Soviet Union Sean Duffy there our mother died their father worked multiple jobs and then worked on trying to learn English at night this is how much this family wanted to be in yeah America here for the values of America Mike and what did the country mean to them the country meant so much to them in me sounds so much to them on a daily basis the things that most of us who were born here take for granted many great things for them and his brother both them in the military and Colonel Victims Children two of them in the Military Clinton this is a uniquely American story it's also just keep springing up why does the White House wants to destroy the reputation of every entity of the government that is dealing with Russia or Ukraine if it's the FBI counterintelligence division that's working against Russian espionage if it's this US Army lieutenant colonel who is Our Ukraine expert he is our Russia's where he served in Moscow he served in Kiev he served on the battlefields if it's Bill Taylor the US ambassador who was picked as an appointee by trump or if it's a US intelligence communities blower when you look across the board his decimated absolutely decimated our ability to do anything in terms of county Russia dealing with Ukraine how could we ever a trusted partner and this lieutenant colonel then meant he is our guide to do he has served ambassador mcfaul was talking about let's say he's worked with all of our top diplomats so now you look at this gentleman is he going to be able to go back into the White House and effectively perform his job surely he's going to be scrutinized because we've seen Oh petty the White House has been to these personnel who have gone and done their job and serve the country let me ask you this a good friend offer up offer up a theory on all of this and I'm just wondering I it certainly sounds like something that somebody who wanted to help Russia would do but everybody's focusing looking at the top level of Donald trump trying to get intel against one of his political opponents but my friend said look below that ask what if Donald Trump had succeeded in getting the Ukrainian government to politicize this process they would then automatically divide Washington they would lose all democratic support for any future military aid and it actually would be a brilliant play by Putin and Russians are by people who wanted to help the Russians that you corrupt Ukraine you prove that they're still corrupt and they are unworthy of military eight or any other sort of aid by even getting them involved in the process so if you're Vladimir Putin you win if they help with the the.