27 Burst results for "Cognitive Science"
Brain Tracking: The Future of Brain Health with Paul Sorbo, Director of Sales at Wavi Medical
"Welcome back to the outcomes racket. Today i have the privilege of hosting paul sorbo. He is the director of sales at wabi medical. Where they're helping the world to think better they're doing brain performance assessments with a very unique approach and in this interview. I have an extraordinary conversation with him. Learning more about how they're making a difference in brain health. And so with that intro. I am so privileged to have you here on the podcast paul. Thanks for joining me. Thank you chris. It's great to be here. Yeah so you know. We previously had another member of your team. Aaron from wabe. If you guys haven't had a chance to listen to that podcast go to the website. Go to wabe mad. And you'll see our rate chat with erin but today we've got paul on the podcast and he's gonna die of a bit deeper into the topic of brain health and what we're doing to do more and to do better within that field so before we do that though paul you know why. Don't you go ahead and tell us what exactly inspires your work in healthcare watts. Broad question to me I think for me it was always. I had a fascination with the human body whether it was from the performance aspect. i. I'm an ex bodybuilder. And so i always had this huge fascination trying to manipulate the human body to be the best at it could all the way through my undergrad. And we'll getting in about school. I had a huge fascination at the genome and and a genetic and solving things like duchenne muscular dystrophy with genomic other being crisper cast nine gene regulation. And you know all of a sudden. I started thinking about this and you know genetics. You're just familiar with upi genetics and and protonix. And when you really get into that you know you start looking at medicine as a whole and realizing that we are not controlling what we can. And that i want to continue to strive to make people the best version of themselves that they can be and continue to drive the education behind that specifically in now with lobby kind of the brain sector. Yeah that's pretty cool man so you did like weight training professionally or what. What's the story there. Never professionally I had a whole bunch of friends that were professional bodybuilders. Still to this day. You know on a fascination with muscle for lack of a better term probably unhealthy fascination for being I like to call bodybuilders the first bile hackers you know when when tides just now coming out and getting into mainstream medical community us bodybuilders. Been using uptight for twenty years and not in a nearly regulated fashion. Obviously very underground bro science for lack of a better term. But yeah i mean i. I'm five foot nine. I was all the way up to about two hundred fifty four pounds. It less than ten percent body fat which was not healthy by the way could punish shoes And realize that you know. I think that's a good topic of conversation about health. Though you know people. I think genuinely believe that external appearance can actually reflect internal health and that is so far from true. 'cause x i looked extremely healthy right. I ate what i thought right things. I had low body fat. I had astronomical amount of muscle mass for my frame but internally when i started looking at my labs my panels my lipid panels cluster all levels my ratios. My inner cellular calcium levels all of a sudden. I'm like close. I am the furthest thing from health. Yeah and you know. It's a good call and we've got a measure to understand where we're at and that's a lot of what you guys are doing with wabi around the brain so talked a little bit about the business and some insights about how you guys are helping. Health care leaders do their job around brain assessment. Yeah i think the key there to what he's done let me start by saying why doesn't do anything do what we do. Is we make information significantly more accessible so measuring the brain has been really underdone. Because it's never been a accessible be. It's never been affordable. Those are the two things that david oakley data joffe really set out to change e. g. and evoked potentials or. Erp have been around for sixty seventy years. The problem with both of those erp specifically was really only used in brain death situations to measure. You know long hospital procedure and prostate expensive and b. e. g. is really people are familiar with the g. from epilepsy studies. And these really terrible torture base you know. Eeg say league caps. You're just awful and they're expensive and they're not quick right so when you talk about measuring the brain you know. Are you going to send a client or patient to go. Get a yearly. Mri no are you gonna go send a client to get a yearly specs or anything else out there eeg. No you're not gonna do it because it's going to cost them. I don't know that many people that have five to ten thousand dollars our way every year. Nobody i mean right very hit. I know people that do it yearly. And i'm like that's excessive right but when you really look at that the problem is that by not doing that on a regular basis as we don't have a whole bunch of data on the parade you know it's not like we're able to just go in with a stethoscope and listen to the way than our heart is a. We haven't been able to do that with the brain and so really. The only clinton which measurement is happening is when. There's already a problem whether there's already issues of cognitive decline whether there's already ti stroke whether there's already behavioral sheeps and so we don't really know these baseline normative were supposed to be or house amongst progressing their cognitive science progressing as they age. And that's really. The foundation of lavi is providing a simple fast and affordable assessment that we establish a baseline and then compare subsequent. Scans to see how someone is progressing
Daisy Christodoulou's Teachers vs. Tech: A Book Review
"Organized this time and we did some recording off alba crabs. So what you're gonna. Fistful is an overview of this book by our lovely doctor judith. Name she's looking at the usa technology within education. She starts off by looking at how we learn so is a strong focus on the the. She calls it the science learning to start with so cognitive science in order to probably to understand how technology can support that learning. So she's fundamentally she's got this how we learn as the foundation of all and then she looks at various aspects of of Technology jay and this the second chapter is she talks about personalized learning and how what personalized learning means and an how realistic it is and she looks at things. Like smart devices says well on on how we we use. Small device says Within education and there is a sort of message that came across to me the technology. And you probably wouldn't be surprised that technology has potential within education. But it doesn't live up to the promise so fall of water offers that we've constantly been offered certain amounts of promise so she uses the example. She uses clinton a an easy example of interactive whiteboards. And says you know these. These was huge investments. And they were going to be the next wonderful thing and it didn't come off and she sorta looks at that. So it's i found an interesting look. made me think about technology and how we use technology okay. So we've got a bit of an overview there and sort of angle that daisy christie has taken with this burke. You've already given us a little bit of an insight. Tom but what were you kind of top takeaway as or what was your kind of instinct to feeling. After you've finished reading this book. I remember being quite infused by i was. I felt that. Obviously it's a very very topical question at the moment. The question of education technology. It's been topical for awhile. It's suddenly became relevant to absolutely everybody. Once we went in went into covid nineteen lockdown and to some extent. I suppose the the tech jeannie has been popped out of the bottle very very quickly. You know we've all ended up having to do some sort of online teaching the question's been hanging over the education world for years and years now you know. To what extent can we or should we as teachers replace. Bits of what we do with technology and you have some people who are very very pro technology. You know we'll we'll tend to use it if it's there perhaps a little be uncritically. You get some people of course in the other way you get people basically saying i'm not having any devices i in my room. Thank you very much. And i think my initial concerns were that coming from an author who is very much seen as on the traditional stand of things and spent a whole chapter seven myths kind of trying to explode this myth that teaches all. Believe that the kids. Just googling things now and can get on with having loads of fun instead of learning facts and all of that that we were going to get something very antitax ashley. Although i knew she was running attack company i thought we were going to get you know whole chapters away we we should be not touching devices that kind of thing so i think the two things i liked the most on a sort of broad brush basis with fat that she is balanced in setting out these arguments. She does kind of you know. Try to lay out her own biases and things. Like that. And i also felt that her has summaries although i do i always twitch when people reducing down to little summaries inboxes. The summaries were pretty good and pretty balanced. Actually if you are in such a hurry that you toady mortar reader. Relatively short chapter yes with my to at the end of each chapter she crunched everything dominant inside the size into into a summary. Which we're gonna use throughout this episode just as talking points and again you nine go and delve a bit deeper into that chapter. He wants to read a little bit more.
How To Align Your Customer Experience
"Now my guest and says, episode is Tim Ashe who is an acknowledged authority on evolutionary psychology and digital marketing. He's a sought after international keynote speaker and the best selling author of two books I one landing page optimization, and more. Recently unleash your primal brain actually just listened to recently on audible. Fantastic. We're going to dig into that one for sure Tim has been mentioned by Forbes as a top ten online marketing expert and by Entrepreneur magazine as an online market influence to watch. For nineteen years he was a CO founder and the CEO of site tuners, tuners dot, com and their digital marketing and optimization agency. Tim has helped create over one point, two, billion dollars in value for some amazing companies that I know. We all know Google expedia harmony facebook and American Express and cannon and Nestle there's massive list year semantic new to it and humanity Siemens anyways in countless direct to consumer brands. So exciting to have Tim today busy schedule. But please join me conversation with Tim Today. So. Tim Welcome ECOMMERCE battling. A Ha-. Very. Happy Veer Steve. So you've had quite an eventful career I might add keynote speaking around the world are writing bestselling books year you run international conferences, I guess pre cove in our doing some virtual events. So tell me a little bit about best can your entrepreneurial journey so far? Sure. Well, I've worked in a variety of high tech companies when I started university at UC San Diego my undergraduate majors were in computer engineering and cognitive science, and then I stayed there for graduate school and what would neural networks or what would now be called deep learning or machine learning or A. And this was early days We didn't have the big data sets that we do now with the Internet. So I switched Internet marketing and started my first marketing agency back in the early DOT com days and Never, let go of the Tiger's tail and twenty five years. Later I decided you know running an agency wasn't my highest and best use on the planet. So I decided to focus on what I really enjoy, which is the thought leadership in the form of as you mentioned, keynote speaking and writing my latest book and spreading knowledge out to people as opposed to working on client accounts. Right? and. So I did mention a little tiny bit of top of the show but you know you've worked with a lot of some really great ecommerce brands some of the largest brands I might add like what are some mistakes that you see kind of consistently some of these e commerce brands are making today will if we restrict people have different definitions of ECOMMERCE, I, just WanNa start there for some ecommerce anywhere. Any website that has as A. Checkout anything where you sell items directly and for others, it's more restrictive and I'd say it's a e commerce catalog and that's I think a more standard definition. If you also use a lots of different items, you have a homepage category pages, search results, pages, and product, and so on. It's not a website where there are two or three things for sale in those early incidental. Would I don't know is that a fair definition or how would you agree with that? Totally would agree with that yes. So In the case of large catalogs, I'd say the common mistakes that we I've seen in my careers one gratuitous use of motion and wasted real estate on the homepage in the form of giant sliders everybody seems to have those Sh. Yeah. That's a big known my book I talk about I have a whole e-commerce best practices section in my landing page optimization book and I devoted a page to why sliders. An evil that should be immediately removed from your site. While you know what part of it I think to is that it doesn't position the brand well, enough I think with having like motion and I think when people have a lot of different slogans, tag lines or kind of looks and things going out other different sections on the site they think they're trying to blast all of their bullets out on this highly sought after a piece of real estate versus maybe having a proper positioning statement or something. One thing that's very important. That's key to why someone should click. Through or why someone shown up on this particular website having one message and one brand image and go further than that I, would say that I'll numerate the reasons why you shouldn't have a slider on your homepage. The one that you mentioned is by far the most important our brains from an evolutionary perspective are designed to notice things moving in are visual field. It kind of has survival value. If you know what I mean here is coming to eat me I need to know what direction and how big is right So. they're they're an interrupt, their the nuclear option in the face of motion graphics won't get looked at and even in the face of graphics, text won't get read. So anything that's graphics or text on your site can't possibly compete with that atomic bomb of a slider on your homepage. And and another reason that really bad is because it's trying to pretend you have more real estate than you really do. So everybody wants a piece of the homepage and lurk. We can add another frame tour slider. Well Great. Thanks. So now have to sit through a longer commercial nobody likes to do that on broadcast TV. There's certainly don't have the attention span to sit through five three seconds sliders to make sure they saw every frame of the crap you're trying to throw them on your home page You don't really an editorial problem. You can't decide what's important. So you're trying to cram it all in there and make everybody happy except your site visitors that are trying to give you money,
"cognitive science" Discussed on KQED Radio
"If the hero dies, in the end, that it was still a good story, and I I think it is. I love you. I d'oh I'm so glad that you exist. I'm so glad that I know you hate it that you're sick. I love what you do. I love how you talk. I love how you think of your big giant heart of love Your office I love what a gigolo you are. I just love you. That's so kind of way I was really looking forward to talking to you. Thanks for being a person with me, Josh. This was a toy. Let's take a break. Before we run. Some of these ideas past social scientists and happiness Nerd Stacker counsellor say stood love so sweet. It was lost on me. So like property showgirl kept falling over. Kept working back. When I throw even simple should be hard. Every day's a start. So I happen to live very close to UC Berkeley where guy named Decker Keltner works and he started this thing called the Greater Good Science Center, and he also has the science of happiness Podcast, which I've actually been on talking about my marriage. Eso Decker. Thanks a lot for helping us make sense of some of these ideas. It's a pleasure to be with you, Kelly. So Kate and I were talking about How intolerable uncertainty is And I wonder why I think that one of the deep insights we've gleaned from social psychology and cognitive science is our minds. Like predictable certain worlds and it just helps us navigate. It helps us interact. It helps us You'll find food sources and things in the world and when there's uncertainty The mind sends up these flares. If you will, of, you know, tension and anxiety and dissonance. He's a popular turn. But, hey, you know, things don't make sense. And you better take action in ways that help you arrive at a clear understanding. And you better like Mathis to a narrative quick. Yeah, exactly like, you know, get some answers, whether they're true or not, And ah Return to a state of calm. And is that all right? Like that were possibly making up things like everything happens for a reason. And if that suits us, is that an okay thing to think, Or is there a danger in that the thinking is like if you study religions that a social scientists are increasingly studying religion that you know religion provides answers to the great uncertainties. Where do we come from? What is life? Why do we die? Why does the sky rattle when it thunders like that religions through social cultural practices? Give us these answers For a lot of people. That's good. Alright, it gives them a sense of meaning and calm and connection for other people. They find it. Worthy of contesting. So the answer's culture provides become sources of conflict, but also meaningful discourse. So you know the secret. Remember that book? I didn't read it, But I I had a lot of people give it to me and say, Why don't you write something like this? You're kidding. No, I'm not getting ahead. Students give it to me. Yeah, well, I mean, it's it's only been snatched up by 19 million people. So Kate and I got talking about the secret and why we're susceptible to that idea that You can think your way into success..
Edward Yu on Slowing Down to Run Faster
"So. The acquisition of sporting technique and skills is really important. Technique is what defines elite competitors. Strengthen force output is good. He needed to have it, but at the end of the day. The most elite athletes will are are technically separated. And so it's an important topic, and really over coaching is something that runs pretty rampant in her sporting society. Athletes who are really kind of turned into robots from a young age. A restrictive model of this is the only way to do this skill imposed on them, and we know that the human body is more complex than that. We all have our own unique clim links and fast twitch fiber ratios and elastic to muscle ratios, and and foot, foot, lengths and sizes, and and just tons of different factors. Again I do believe in. In I do believe there are certainly elements of good technique. No doubt but the question is is how do you get to your own best technique? With respect to obviously what is seen in high performers and a real, so that's what this show is all about today. That's questions. We're GONNA. Look at. My guest is Edward You. Edward is a in Christ participator and human movement specialists. He's a former triathlete, martial arts, enthusiasts, and perennial student in the art of. Edward Edwards interest has been how people learn and process information, and that's led him to mix the fields of sports. Martial Arts Dance Psychology, cognitive science and many more into his own frame of human movement. Edward is also Edward is also the author of the book slowing down to run faster which I read and found really intriguing, and it just jive with a lot of thoughts I've had on. How do we get athletes to achieve their own optical technique as well as taught me? A lot of new ideas had a lot of really interesting exercises and methods and sensory awareness techniques to help athletes get a better feeling of their body, and to be able to then take that into running. Edward is a guy who really has blended a lot of ideas into the art of human movement. And so today's podcast is all about exploring human movement and sport. Technique from a wider Lens on the show Edward, and I are GonNA cover many aspects of particularly a that are really particularly human when it comes to movements such as over trying and overthinking self sabotage motivation. He's also going to get into his ideas on the sensory and motor development of humans. How we develop as a young age, and how that impacts US later on in life, and he's also going to get into understanding how we can better utilize our sensory systems and our sensory apparatus to help us. Be More efficient effortless and our movements, and help us obtain a technique in this when we talk about running a lot, but a sport technique that is really uniquely our own that does checkoff those those models of what good performers do, but also fits with what we have is our humans in our own human body, and how we are designed, so this was a really information. Show a lot of really great ideas. It's one that's really going to get you. Thinking and I'm excited to get it going excited to bring this one to you so. Let's get onto episode two seven here with Edward. Edward Welcome to the show man. It's great to have you here today. I'm glad to be here. I'm thankful that you're working through some of these little sound difficulties, which was all my fault toys that little button that you didn't necessarily find until the last minute, but I'm glad we could finally do this and I. You know there's a lot of questions that I'm really excited to ask you and things to get into. I'll start with just a simple one, though is you know all of us regardless of where you are in the sport or athletic field of probably watched that that local city half marathon, or whatever and you see, the vast majority of people are just shuffling. Looking like the they enjoy it. They're just shuffling through it. Instead of running and so, why is that like why? Why is so many people really kind of lacking the joy of actually running versus kind of shuffling plot? I think pupil shuffle because that's how they run so for them running shuffling. They don't have embodied in themselves the mechanics for. What might be considered good running form, so it's It's how it's what they know. Another reason is maybe they don't WanNa be running. And I think that's pretty common and often. They go together. There's the biomechanical element which makes it not very fun. If you're not very efficient, you don't feel powerful. You're not gonNA enjoy very much. And then you have to force yourself to do it. Now, if it comes to race, I think it's legitimate for people to have grim expressions because they're. Usually racing, you're pretty serious I I don't see a lot of even world class athletes smiling when they're on the track the, but they're probably you know or. They may be enjoying it at the same time. I hear you so. So making a short answer long it's a I think a combination. Of, Mechanics and psychology and maybe maybe both
"cognitive science" Discussed on Mr Barton Maths Podcast
"Of my interview with Mark Healey. Now it's eighteen. Whatever always planning the interview Al, discussing it with Mark I really thought the three things that we talk about worth sleep, behavior and growth mindset. That's what I structured interview around, but it's fascinating how these things can can go in ways. You didn't expect because we needed to lay the foundation of of kind of Mark's background where he was coming from and also I really want to. To discuss his views just in general of about cognitive science and cognitive psychology, and then one thing led to another before you do an hour and a half at pass by, and it's as a Friday to phone a parents, and so on, and so forth so as I said besides scientists as part one the AF-, Watts Colby next I think it does lay a really solid foundation for for what I know for a fact will be fascinating at parts. But that doesn't mean there's does not things to reflect on for this conversation, so I just want to pick out two key wounds and the big one for me. Was this notion of do one thing at a time to bring about change I think that is so so so important. As described, that is really really relevant to school leaders and by school leaders I don't just mean teachers infected had teaches and people in charge of teaching learning, but also departmental leads and the heads of maths, head of key stage, three baths, and so on anybody who wants to bring about change. The worst way to do, it is just to give a loaded different things, a loaded different things that teaches or even even students and the reason that doesn't work with the two bits I. It's just overwhelming. There's just too much to do and again if people are skeptical about it so easy then to opt-out, because he just overwhelmed, but also just as importantly, and you've no way of knowing the impact of any one of those changes is like a really about sites expert. You've changed too many variables. You've no. No idea when the outcome changes or doesn't change what to attribute that to so I think that's incredibly relevant to leaders that I really like this idea remarked school that they just take one thing and focus on it for an entire year, even though the such attempts Asians jump on the latest battle, the latest bit of research, and so one thing and focused deepen getty right reflect on it how time to implement find out what works and what doesn't, and that's also relevant, not just elitist, but individual teachers. So I always say this when I'm looking to Rome workshops or give talks I will say the end of it hopefully if you join today. I was never a guarantee, but hopefully enjoy yourself. Hopefully. You've got a few ideas that you're excited to try, but just pick won't pick one I. Work Online. Make sure your used to make sure your kids are used to it. Practice it. Practice it. Rehearse it, and so on a men reflects upon the what's. What's what what doesn't work, and if because you change one thing, it's much easier to to manage it from a workflow perspective, but also get a sense of what impact it's having so individual props. You found this from listening to these podcasts. Come Away with it with loads of things to think about and try just try and Pay Walnut I. I'm a great believer in this and only move onto the second one. What you've got I will nailed. But he's also relevant. If this, this notion of do one thing at a time to bring about changes also relevant through observing lessons, and this is something that's come up a few times show whether it's Danny Quinn. AUTOM- Franco Verandah McRae, speaking about observations and One ever you are working with working with teachers. I'm. Just. Giving feedback after a lesson, just pick one thing for them to work on one thing for philosophy teacher to focus auden an Hamas as part of their thing to develop and I've made the mistake in the past. I've spoken about this I've I've suggested three or four different things, and it's too much safely much for people to the people to take in, and nothing happens as a result of it is so tempting to do so because she think all brilliant, I've given them loads of feedback. This is really, but it's too much. He doesn't have an impact, so pick one thing and I'm going to build on now with with something. Something that am talks about what it Kaplinsky for it from the US and he had a great thing, he said about ops, observing that the the when you observe somebody thinking that one thing that you want them to change and surrounded by five things that were really really really good. Think super hard about five things. Find things that you take for granted that the kids were well behaved. Kids use the right language went touring questions pick five things that actually were really good about the lesson, and then this one thing that is the key things to focus on. That seems to be good recipe to bring about change I really like. I'm second takeaway. M. No, you kids now. This is sought channel thing to say for again eight. Sometimes the obvious need Sade certainly for me. Because I I didn't do this enough and I didn't know my kids backgrounds as I said I feel terrible for this. I would read in-depth vs emails that got sense around about kids, backgrounds and sold, and so forth I would perhaps not be paid as much attention as I should have voted. It holds staff briefings whether announcements will be made, and I know that makes me an absolutely terrible person, but the wasn't that. This is this is the right word, but wasn't la incentive or accountability for me to for me to do I, knew I could get away with kind of them zoning out a little bit and so on, but that's so important I mean, but lock story. It was hilarious about the the kid in away in the corner, but also some important right. The bought wasn't aware of why that was happening, and you can imagine that. That could have gone horribly horribly horribly wrong, but that knowing the kids background knowing the history taking the time to do that is just as important as thinking pedagogy about how to convey a concept or idea, so I'm going to make a conscious decision to get much much much much better in future. Anyway. I'm just so excited about parts. Who as I say sleeps? Behaviors could be growth mindsets common, and if in the meantime you've got any questions for mark, you drop a tweet or anything like that. Do be best to put them in there, but imagine party's GonNa, be absolutely jampacked as well so all that remains to do is once again. Thank mark for.
"cognitive science" Discussed on Mr Barton Maths Podcast
"Now. Is Not even I mean I think at one stage. He says that the so many mental who says he's involved? Explanation of what he calls panel close to try to explain the main. It is incredibly complex. Vehicle Level I think that's what was looking at in terms of science, but also think pragmatic level to what Kofler Guy. Who had done work in way way the staff Israel's Kenny paper. Has Reading for pleasure as religious debate strategies in hooks and decline engaged cuts to beat. On enjoy when he eats you the cold. Readings possible to everywhere. I think that's a wonderful waiver. On it's it's. It's a great agree aspect to cognitive science, which I think. We need to understand bay because when you talk to Bernie attainment. achievement gap is swoop dedicated on the beaten. another thing as the vocab of cap cap in language acquisition. Cold The science. If you look at the work that. Many people have done the F. also in terms of language impairment in the Pints on development. Galaxies the VOCAB GAP Straightaway before kids come skill that. Could be sexy six months to a year behind in Tim's alias in an one. Judy can assimilation allying mission that exposure to language in vocab. So think any? of subjects go of subject specific if you Anglin label of Glenn Gundi Kanye The seems to be a law talk about intense, not active, but when you think about how important Meta languages over and above Coleman language. Manila count. Assemble stops the ALEC Toke severe in terms of cool straightened onto ninety five percent of the world's ensure completion comprehension takes. Don't get severely disadvantage. Take any key stage four and five. You've vocab capture to. The eighteen months two years behind over eighty. So? It's not really think cove intelligence in some senses as a market of lack of exposure to to will cabin coke the signs to explained. Hey, we can close that gap, not massively important for me massively important, but thank you. An analogy. In your best football coaches, your urea for licenses in your pool licensed Kuchis. What were the youngest in Spain in Italy? We Chuck Otas offseason, key stage, four and key stage, five senior phase, the curriculum molester engineer, faithless Get your base people working near the base level of intervention gain intervention teams teams, enemy and I know some schools thirty nine, I'm not. I'm not saying that because I want a highlight. hominids. Some schools do not wonderfully whale nothing. There's national policies to address the by I should be determined, focused to do now that Neo Nazis. What does that mean? neal was. Abandoned Morphine, which basically means new so Dick almost what what it means, if the new the cannot, they cannot morphology language I think those things of really really important to help. Get a handle on attempts. Kobe Science. I think the last thing. The last thing for me. sciences is trying to have an understanding that. It's not a panacea It's one many things within your installation sale. SAFE with allegations deflation skill improvement that can help. But certainly one massively important dolt with a nocco installation Does the evidence mean in terms of my expedience? With this recessed. What's mine? Local context was the data with Takes the views of people within mangles my professional judgment affect that he's trying to simulate that old together. and I think that's a really powerful way of using. Research to inform. I cannot evidence on evidence based dialed to to basically I. Mean What's The purpose education? You can talk all day from bs that you can talk from Roussel in your philosophical contentions. For me, it's that simple position as gift people, the maximum number choice, they can have in life. They want a Guinea. Polish they WANNA punish up. Do you want to get to work? Give them the opportunity to have those choices at the same time. As being morally responsible people who cannot kate about other people kid of themselves, and that'll take you go fire all. What, if I'm wait to end power mark, and this is kind of teaser trailer coming up, impart to. We're talking to sleep, which is my favorite talk about was talking behavior. Growth Mindset Gennett resilience. We've got it all go. And Sleeps agreed one 'cause you will be asleep after Utah. Fantastic well. It's absolutely brilliant. Speaking to your art, we look forward to join you again for policy really enjoyed that wealth DC thanks, but. Habits. There was part one of my interview with Mark Healey. Now it's eighteen. Whatever always planning the interview Al, discussing it with Mark I really thought the three things that we talk about worth sleep, behavior.
"cognitive science" Discussed on Mr Barton Maths Podcast
"Yes, A. Can only effectiveness if you've got so many initiatives going on at when. People have human. Please please drove in some place. Spend quicker than other. Will do you tend to in wide? You attend to so we flew the Diana. That's where the whole idea the by doing one focus for one year, came in. And we spent a whole year on Mamadou for landing. We spent a whole on home for lending where we we Pinot questionnaires didn't workshops with people questionnaires, but that people were shot with staff workshops. We went dining, Huntington we brought on Schumer. Can he said look. What is going to make cool mark? A value added being a stress. Harry's going to be value added Drilon Tech Books to Kate pins to see we have three old theorist will Am I not that that that was a real tolerance for me to slow slower the. was fascinated fascinated. Well we turn our attention now, and this'll be the first of many questions I. Ask you through this conversation in the next. Amount. What's the difference between cognitive science and cognitive psychology I recommend us. Am I using I tend to just say always for science all the time, so am I wrong? I'm using them interchangeably and not at the right time, so we'll also difference between those two terms. I think again a hope, my understanding. As I could, and I'm happy to be connected by people who incidently more knowledgeable than I am. But I think people do use them entertainingly and I think perhaps. When people talk about Psych Psychology, I think people really focusing on one aspect of cognitive psychology Tim's mandate but won't for me. Coal to science as a way to enter lap of Noli tools of inquietude sake than to aspects cognitive psychology, but it's not necessarily under the unveiled psychology, so if I if I said if I said today, okay, so coke psychology and itself is a field within cycles. You get social psychology differential psychology example you go, I'm. Come to cycle, and within not you've sub fuel, so you've got mine witch perception intelligence occasion. Are thought problem-solving Now. Let me let me just use lying. Megyn of tying can throw line which y. constructive, cognitive science and language, as an example of that is slightly different from what language science like okay so. If you if you think about language. And within the opponents psychology your what can Fostered second language yet McCain cannot. The can may be Steven. Pinker Children Skiing Review First Language against a second language acquisition of. Steven clash in three example cold bans bullet poop plus one. And, then you're looking at. An psychology developmental aspects of psychology linked to lying. So you're looking at, but in today's looking at vocabulary PD type between four five sacks. By link. In an all probably fancy language it definitely mean not much, but if link how you acquire language in terms of psychology. then. You're really talking about brain. Function Antenna Lucic's associate fight so it could be where you live. People writing to. How often did he speak? What language are you exposed to? What should level of a mansion patterns? but NFL link to slightly diversifying not lanes. I'm Kinda looking. At maybe language. They had to mobility. I'm looking at Morphology Syntax Dan. If I take staged further, and I'm looking at sociology that might be looking at language ENTIRA. Might be looking up the empire on how we employ. Who was we imposed English? Another POPs tight to stop them from speaking in there, l. one the the the need of language, so then you stop to think about things like a linguistic imperialism I think for me will. Cognitive Science hope that's about pilot has been quite clear. Cold can opens up. Enter Disciplinary. Look Up. A hops aspects that we would study in Comas of psychology, but not necessarily through the Lens Old. Cognitive psychology. Does that make sense I. Don't know if that was a long winded way of saying things that you're thinking what he's he talked about. Not Not at all I think as we kind of progressives discussion the. They're awesome terms that you use. We've just been having informal conversations. You've used some terms happen. Thinking right, I really should know exactly what that means, but don't I've kind of gone away and looks right. Okay, so Azam when they come up a major stop. Just ask yourself just to clarify some of those sorry. Let let me just let me just ask you this. The mark and for to this question really emphasise, dear agree that there's been an increase in interest in both cognitive science and cognitive psychology by teachers, and if so, why do you think most the case? Will. I will answer that a as as a fantastic Chris. Does my explanation of why. Thank cognitive psychology in coke science may be related, but different fumes. Make sense to you. Yes I think so. Yes, let me check for understanding. Go. is again be a five is complete in tool to understanding in one as absolutely non standing. After my explanation, where would you say? I would say. Between a three and four I've been white lie. The. and. Because I think I see I I start to see differences between the two. But the reason I am not complete on it as so say for example I take Copeland the things that I think in the most important to teaching so the for me anyway, so let's say take cognitive load theory. Bjork's were conned. Disable difficulties I would still label them as cognitive science, but I'm wondering whether particularly cognitive load theory are song key aspects of cognitive psychology in it so I'm a bit uncertain about about that this thing I think cognitive load theory because genuinely overly. In offi. Relatively field with swallows. Kona an oversee as massive police to what could Mandy and on what we can prove Manipulate instilled giving time, but sociocultural factors which will s absolutely absolutely I in context independent as well. As a ski met schematic. Understand in his way. Oh, so yeah, I think not up but I think what I'm trying to say the lindsays of psychology. Relate to other disciplines with entre polio linguistics, essential intelligence of sociology which allow. A, deep, discussion! Slightly Different Laden to be placed on it, so we wouldn't necessarily talk about food colds, understanding of language pilot attempts to psychology, but you would came to understand that a language. Wards the have a schematic confederates. which me can powerbase, people may have overall. Exemplify said to you as Professor Mark Kiely. Mark Healey. Would you than-thank to yourself genucel? He me, something I'm more inclined to believe. I believe the Face Monkey I see yeah, so they would think. Knowing you as I do, I'm skeptical most than you say godless regardless of the. Good judge of character. But. That's. Everyone likes my distinction of it makes sense to me why I don't think the same thing, but why the related and also makes sense to me why the enrich each other? Thought Makes Sense. Yes, got it so to to to return to the question about whether did you think it is true? That teaches are using these terms and more aware of them, and there's more interested, and if so, where does that come from mark? Had Not. Really good question is a question. We've Aston School I hope really really hope to the F.. You spoke to a staff that if you said a few things to MMC. Loosen chains principles the what you do in Tim's A. Wash top to, and then you can have your your silent jet Parr Staff. saintly month stuff would would be who with without work. Away level. I don't know whether or not we you and I and others guilty of attribution error we will. We ascended people on the twitter universe of people who read books. People who'd be tests. Of Schools Weekly at in the majority of people within the teaching profession. Yes, lots. An in united probably normalized won't pay tackle normalizing your wall pip when you think that you've your host. is deputy. We other people's. Allah and it may not be. Absolutely might not be the paper tonight. Wallpaper may not be the same things whatsoever. Notice, my will people after today's needle nor stairs, and if I do not becomes my norm that I think people are token by. To evidence forums. On? Fight Would you see from your union? Obey a possession in some sense to to to respond to this, but would you see that if you your through your visits in terms of going into schools doing cpt, what with with colleagues across? Britain schools bill fee with the law skis. What going effective study habits or Rosen chains? Wrote Rosenshine. Definitely.
"cognitive science" Discussed on Mr Barton Maths Podcast
"It's the word load is just absolutely gone through the roof and it's it's all kind of tied around this notion of feedback, and it's this idea that if you're not doing this, not evidence in this, you're doing the kids a disservice, so what what what kind of? Right teacher is going to say well I'm not doing it. It's incredibly difficult as and say. What do you put it down to I? Think I think you'd absolutely you've said I. Think the most definitely unintended vacation salvation over the last five years. And Model was head teacher. Will I do not is not the same as that five years to be honest with you I'm Monday little little I have absolutely new a on cuts and yell. Not People still expect the same level of performance in service. With less resolve sees. think teachers Coen scientious on the whole that they be internalized fight then they have to stay up to a point to redress that gap. I do think that it's a case of cannot be beautiful risk of education. Bs does work where he would talk about. The accountability performed Deka Valence, the idea that almost or Walian over to data valence was schools are not seen as communities almost seen as algorithms, data, sheets, and spreadsheets, which key anonymous of about how good their? thanks sometimes the the the machen feedback. and has is has lying fuels. That were you have tastes weekly tests retrieval stage testing test old to be mountain employees. Your your can a unit taste in your more formal assessments. I think you get to a point. Whereby also you look at the destruction associated savage look sideline the deduction in calms. You Look at Social Repeal protection, you look the proliferation of pathologies behavior in schools in the rule of teaching becomes. Tretiakov. Here's towards looking at category fundable. vulnerable to abuse who make Humvee who are tired. They'll have the cadet uniform. Anything to the rule for teachers have also. Managed intensified perhaps because of societal expectations, the also intensified because of the deficits within society to quite frankly the poll rate. We Talk I. Don't know if you have this warden England, but we re talking skull onto bit poverty drifting your schools. No, no, no, it's the idea that if you if you do an enrichment. We're doing a trip to the Science Museum. The whole posy of poverty proofing disadvantage catch. The can't pay the firefighters seven points to go. Now. The has always been the case that you would do your base for those kids who are finding it hard to get on these tasks on weekends in residential Through the fight. That's the twenty two week. Wait unless comes in schools at expected disease. Look at the news the morning when you have the case the Kenyan Blackville when they were Kevin PM, smell conveyed as they walked on. Know if you saw that in BBC breakfast. Yes, yes, and you think to yourself. Schools are most definitely a community hub that is absolutely not But a community hub is expanded in terms of Ov- it's Lucas in terms of its ability to not just be a part of the community in some sense Hughes on what but Shula level of compassion and gas towards the community beyond the formal before schooling, so devolved alone. I think a lot of teachers are so innately Cohen she angeles. kagan compassionate that. The the the the best and not mean sometimes. They were ridiculously low Unite both know there's a flip side to that because snow sustainable. You could argue that you'd effectiveness in class over the three weeks months after that becomes a consistent part on walking habits is greatly attenuated. In we'RE GONNA, go into threat. I sleep and decision making the. We know that if you Hilton will be annoyed, you'd optimum. Dot Lake any any performance, Devon, sport. symbol. Nash the National Football. NFL ATHLETES cyclists. You can see some. Here's a cyclist. I want you to do really till you gonNA. Stay up mountain doors before going to stay up. Do some reading on Danny, condiments systems wants to so he can get what thanking. You'RE GONNA. Do Not really back help. So. We. We, asked have systems labeled ability to to to think of a health and wellbeing. Beyond to tokenistic gestures the idea. Gifting care packages for stop spoiling idea for. Piotti glow macy's on a systems labeled these things unnecessity. You have to address the systems a non best analogies. And I think that is unreal. Ongoing Dialogue Professional Associations pins children. Maybe school leaders I've Stephen Tierney. Who's the see you not that them? Bamboo Trust Academy a Yes Monte F- yeah in Stephen Stevens go philosophy and skills of a strip back to Wilson. Ports the extensive phase of looking at. PLA- plant season school. Insane rate in terms of fake. This is on a on a name. The team in terms of effectiveness is five or sites. It's not a one-two-three Rafe with only a one two two three eight five secs. Why then try and ties will important. That's that same simplistic, but assistance label, even having that dialogue and being able to capture that Nihil and then she mentioned it after. Your Tokens leadership to change your token a long time so I think there's an easy answer to thank in the meantime. Teachers have to sail frequently as professionals just can't do that on I'm, GONNA get professional dialogue as to of done what I can. And I'm really not capable of doing anymore with. Advanced people dom he to meet the legs bent. So difficult, isn't it particularly if you're an individual teacher props, you're in your second third year of teaching you've you've got all this going on you've got to. You've got to put time into develop in you. You subject knowledge. You've got to make sure you if you understand what you're actually teaching, you've got to be on the ball when it comes to the health and wellbeing if if if you. See if you've got to put time into that, and then as we're going to go on to talk about some Annetta later, you've got this increase in popularity in awareness of cognitive science and cognitive psychology, and is the the demand to know of no more about that, and then on top of that you've got your. You've got just the Admin side of teaching the mark in the enter filling out reports all that kind of stuff. It's hard, isn't it? As a as a novice teacher to either know what to prioritize, but also as you say to to have the confidence to say to your line manager, you had a department Esotique, whoever it is look at account, cope with this, and what inevitably happens. These teachers just try to cope, and then it all falls apart as we know it's. It's difficult, though isn't it for for individual teachers to know what to do in this situation, I think as I think. It's is absolutely vital as you said in Tim's retention, not just couldn't to keep people. Who you want to be an efficient to to have that love and that passion for doing what they WANNA do unique silently the conditions under which they can through the a half Dec- this. I've had sixteen years expedience at international schools that infinitely ban during that the my experience. UK Scoops. why is that Moxie? You know listenable all all turnaround there and say when it's. The kids have better behaved or is because the schools are better funded, is it that simple as the more going on that we can learn from? There's no doubt that key ingredient souls. The level of behavior is generally much higher. A. Perhaps, todd pejorative when I told him home coal. We used to call it. UK Dis when we will say strike by behavioral. in Home Colin wait a second disco. We would get six or seven up days a year..
Understanding Neural Networks
"My name's Tim Willie Crap. I have affiliations with deep mind which is a part of Google and as well. Ucla University College London. Could you tell us a little bit about your career and how you got into machine learning and AI and topics? Like that. So I can around? When I was in undergraduate I took cognitive science course which I think was really the turning point for me. It got me interested in philosophy of the mind and figuring out how we think sometimes and I was in university Toronto when I was in Undergrad and was fortunate enough to take some neural networks courses from Jeff. Engine Bruce Sarah's a professor teaching undergraduate courses and that got me hooked on thinking about neural networks deep neural networks and from there I kind of went off and did neuroscience during my PhD post doc but of kind of slowly come back into. She learned philosophy of the mind doesn't show up on a lot of sort of traditional computer science curricula. How is it the to able to integrate that in also understand the more mathematical sides of these topics? Most of the everyday computer science we do is working with data structures trying to transform numbers and so on but on the other hand I would say that even fairly early on was some connection to this reflexively of mind. Kind of ideas. Touring famously proposed entering test very early on in their development of computer science theory and I think there has been sort of a bridging interest the whole time in part because so why is that I guess because we have this question all the time about what it means to think and in a certain sense computer science has sort of understood that is what does it mean to compute. And there's been a bridge built. I guess at each step along the way as we've gone into that all depending on how lazy I want to get as an interviewer the paper that I invited you on to talk about poses a series of questions. So I'll just do it once. Start with title. What does it mean to understand the neural network? Yes yeah that's right. The title is a bit funny. I mean there's actually probably a bunch of ways to interpret that title and I should say really commutes looks at the paper was aimed. Maybe most at risk kids audience. So it's really trying to speak to neuroscientists who are in the process of trying to understand the brains understand biological brains in particular and how they work and how they compute. It is a paper. Midi written from the perspective of where we find ourselves right now in machine learning deep network theory but then trying to take some of the recent results and ideas and reflecting back into neuroscience in terms of these two fields. I'm wondering if you can describe the relationship. I mean I do bump into people that kind of share both worlds but the ven diagram does not overlap as much as you'd think between machine learning and neuroscience what are some of maybe the successes are inhibitors that can help or hinder the ways in which these two fields can share information depending on who you talk to been massive amounts of transfer and. It's sort of an easy thing that happens all the time or almost no cross talk and I don't know if you like get too bothered about that. I think it's just a case by case basis where there might be transferred interesting ideas flowing one or the other. I think sitting in between them certainly where I've spent a good deal might time and thought but there's very successful practitioners who are just totally. Ignore the other thing that's going on. I guess maybe to connect this question back to the paper though. There's this huge. Recent set of successes in machine learning employing deep. Neural networks to solve all kinds of problems that we couldn't solve before and I do think that there's at least one particular story that's coming out of that progress which we to try and take seriously over on the neuroscience solid. That's what this paper is kind of about of the areas that the paper delves into notion of intermediate languages. Can you talk a little bit about what those are and why they're necessary and helping to understand neural network commitments from perspective of neuroscientists? I for a long time. People doing neuroscience have wanted to in some sense understand how the brain is computed and sometimes the functions of the brains computing are incredibly complex their complex enough that we really do not understand how computing they compute. And so. There's a sense in which you'd like to be able to describe that and how scientific language that we could talk to each other with debt. Let's say this is how this brain tissue is computing complex function. Made it a ground. All of discussion going forward. I'll pick a very particular one. One I think has almost become common currency which is categorizing on object in an image. So this is sort of the canonical example machine learning and you can imagine lots of animals to their answers this kind of computation and certainly humans do tons of this kind of computational time it's very sensible to ask people for ages you know how our brains performing that kind of a problem in could we have a language that would let us get a hold on that describe. What's going on as these computations vote that I think is really the thing that people have had in mind. The aim people have had in mind and I think that the recent results that have come out of the deep learning machine learning community cast a bit of light on this funny light on this. Which is that. Maybe that is not the best question to ask. Certainly. Maybe it's not the best kind of question to start asking right now. What is the best question to be asking right now? If we look at all the progress it's happened in deep learning. We have this picture where we can now build say large networks. That computer function like that quite easily. So in fact weaken specify learning algorithms and the network architectures in a couple of hundred lines of computer code. That will train network to perform that kind of a task quite easily. And we as human computer science practitioners to look at that code and pretty much have a good understanding of of each line of it. How a good idea how they string together in fold together and produce the outputs at the end produce a functional piece of in Silica Brain tissue and even though we can do all that we have almost I would say no true understanding of the computations that have been put into those networks after train. Now I want to distinguish from moment. What do I mean by understanding? I think understanding is this a very loaded philosophical word that gets his into all sorts of trouble just wanted to distinguish for a moment. I mean I think for these networks that we train these deep neural networks. Between our computer we have in some sense. Complete understand what those in that we can look parameters the weights in the network. We can look at how it sort of performs computations on inputs how it transformed the images from hidden layer to in there and then finally to the Oakland so we understand all of mathematical computations. That happened in between sort of totally white box way. But when we step back from that if someone asks you how does that network that this image is a draft or this particular images of an elephant we have? I think no good intermediate language we can sort of talk to other scientists about let us feel like we really tangibly understand the computations that have been put into that network.
"cognitive science" Discussed on Stuff To Blow Your Mind
"But anyway so I. WanNa. Come back and think about the sort of instinctual grammar of the gesture of how the pointing gesture is applied, and how much we can communicate with often without saying anything at all so Maybe the most basic is that you can use pointing of course to indicate a place you know you gesture, and it causes the audience to look there or to be suggested to go there beyond that you can indicate something that you want right like imagine a child asking for a toy or imagine. Even adult like picking out of food item from behind glass at a cafe without any words just point. And, in fact I think this highlights a distinction that comes up when experts talk about pointing as an acquired skill in childhood development according to a two thousand twelve paper in the journal Cognitive Science, by Liszkowski at all in every human culture where we've ever looked at this question with a few neurological exceptions, human infants begin to point at between nine to fourteen months. This is often average to. To, say about one year of age, but like nine to fourteen months is the average, and the authors here call pointing a pre linguistic gesture role universal. It appears that every culture does it and children acquire it very early generally before speech. Yeah, yeah, and it's I've also seen it referred to as like what the Golden Road to language the because in in having having had a child that. Couldn't speak yet. This is one of the primary ways the child can of course. Acquire the things it wants point at it, and it will be given unto you or will be denied you and you know a lot of emotions will result but also it's it's key in helping them acquire language. Because then we can point at things and let them know what the name is for that. What Word is associated with that thing So it's it's very important for in both ways, not only their use of the point, but their understanding of pointing and others..
Algorithmic Injustices: Towards a Relational Ethics with Abeba Birhane
"Welcome to the Tuomo. Ai podcasts thank you so much for having me Sam. I'm really excited about this conversation. We had an opportunity to meet in person After a long while interacting on twitter at the most recent NRA conference in particular the black workshop. Where you not only presented your paper. Algorithm ick injustices toward a relational ethics Best Paper there and so. I'm looking forward to digging into that and some other topics but before we do that I would love to hear you kind of share a little bit about your background and I will mention for folks that are hearing the sirens in the background. While I mentioned that you are from University College Dublin. You happen to be in New York now at the ES Conference in association with AAA I and As folks might know it's hard to avoid sirens and construction in New York City so Just consider that background are mood mood. Ambience background sounds. Cosso your yes. How did you get started working in a ethics so my background is a cognitive science and particularly a part of cognitive science cord embodied cognitive science? Which is which has ruled. Seen A in cybernetics in thinking. The idea is to focus on on the on the social on the cultural on the historic In kind of view cooperation in continuity with the warrant with with historical background in that in as opposed to you know your your traditional approach to cognitive which just rates combination as something located in the brain or something formality. Something that can be computed so yet. So that's my background. Even during my master's I lean towards the AI. Ice I'd of Koebnick science the more I dave into it the more I much more attracted to the to the site to injustices to the social issues. And so the more deputy goes on the more. I find myself in the that they takes site. Was there a particular point that you realize that you're really excited about the ethics part in particular or did it just evolve for you? I think it just evolved. So when I started out at the end of my master's in at the start of the day my idea is that you know we have this new relatively new school at thing way of thinking which is imported Kokusai which I quite like very much because eighteen sizes you know ambiguous eighties in Messina and contingencies. As opposed to you know drawing create Clean Boundaries and so the idea is yes. I liked the idea of redefining competition. As something relational something inherently social and some think that is continually impacted in influenced by as our people ended the technologies. We use so the technology aspects. The technology end was my so initially. The idea is yes. Technology is constitutes aspect of aspect of article. You'll help the famous nineteen ninety eight thesis spy and Clark in the John Muir steak standard mind where they claimed in. The iphone is an extension of your mind so you can think of it that way and I was kind of advancing the same line of coats but the more identity into it the more I so yes ditch technology with its you know computing such as face recognition systems on the streets or your phone wherever yes it does. Impact in the does continually shape in reshape. Our mission in what it means to exist in the warrant. But what became more and more clear to me is that not everybody's impacted equally a the more privileged. You are the the more in control of at you are as to what can influence you end what you can avoid. So that's where I become more and more involved with the attic solve computation and its impact on cognition. The notion of privilege is something that flows throughout the work that you've presented at blackened. Ai Our make injustices paper and this idea. This construct of relational ethics what is relational ethics. And what are you getting at with it? Yeah so relational ethics is actually not a new thing. A A lot of people have terrorized about it and I have written about it but the the way I'm approaching it the way I'm using it is. It's I guess he kind of springs from at this restauration that for many folks who talk about ethics or or fairness or justice most of it comes down to constructing these needs formulation of fairness or at mathematical calculation of who should be included and Who SHOULD BE EXCLUDED? What kind of do we need that sort of stuff? So for me relational ethics is kind of. Let's let's leave that for a little bit late. Zoom out and see the bigger picture and instead of using technology to solve the problem stats emerged from Technology Self. So which which means censoring technology late instead center the people that are people `specially people that are disproportionately impacted by the limitations or the problems that arise with the development and implementation of Technology. So at there is a robust Research in economic fairness or go to speak injustice and the the pattern. Is that the more you are at the at the bottom of the intersection level. That missed further away from you are from you. Know your stereotypical White Sis. Gender made the more the bigger the negative impacts are on you ways there it's a classification or categorization or whether it's being scaled in scored for by hiring algorithms or looking for housing or anything like that at that the Maury move away from that stereotypical category status score the more. The HABE that they embarked his own use. So the idea of relational ethics is kind of to to to take from that perspective to to take that as a starting point so these are the groups are these are the individuals that are an much more likely to be acted so in order to put them at at advantage or in order to protect their welfare. What do we need to do? So the it's died is to start from there and then ask for wishing instead of saying here we have this technology or we have these Saito Algorithms constellations. How do we apply them? Or how do we then use them to to you? Know for Beta or a fair outcome and sometimes the answer you arrive at. Is that a particular technology. Shouldn't exist in a given form. Yeah right exactly exactly. So I think one of the downsides of an obsessively working on and some matrices or some equations on fairness is that you forgot. Forget to ask in the first place do we. Should we even do this in the first place and I think some people have articulated this really? Well you can think of this. In terms of that you know face recognition systems that are becoming very normalized in common spatial in the states. Do you feed at your face. Recognition Algorithms with diverse data in order. So that it recognizes everybody equally or do you stop and think do we actually need face recognition systems in the first place.
"cognitive science" Discussed on Mr Barton Maths Podcast
"There was three of my interview series with with Chris. Baltin is a brilliant guests. It so off on the show you know obviously super smart obviously deep thinking but he's also a really good listener unless that's a problem. Sometimes because he listened to really hall to what I say picks a pop op problems with it and stuff but I i. I love Chris on the show and again. I'm looking forward to Paul four already. Now plenty to reflect upon here in the takeaway. I'm going to take the lesson on that. I spoke about the end of the Tom. Franken Emma cranes of interviews and that is trying to convince my takeaways into a couple of things that actually will go ahead. An change about my practice and thinking as opposed to kind of a Scotsman approach right list about seven or eight and it becomes a little bit too much so I just WanNa focus on three things now the first what is this this notion that the cognitive sciences potentially useless and has limits. I said what I saw. That headline in the title of Christie's Talk. I was panicky because again. Well to eason's really well. He's the classic soul cost policy. That that I I actually dedicated lots of time energy the NFL to trying to get to grips with cognitive science in particular applications to teaching so got to think. Maybe I've wasted my time. Not that's always always hard. You'll stay a human tendency but then the other thing is like I genuinely believe it's improved me as a teacher. My knowledge of what limited knowledge legitimate cognitive load theory and Bjork's work and Williams work and so on. I believe it made me a better teacher and just break that down a little bit and things like cognitive load theory desirable difficulties. They certainly tell me what not to do that. I started reading it and look back on my practice at. I used to think about the way my slides used to be designed the way I will be talking whilst the kids were trying to repeat am on them with with the ORCS. Were the way I'd be just teaching topic topic assessing that topic. Kids were doing. Brilliant outset clerk Greenham a spreadsheet move onto another topic teach topic assess just doing things in Nice tidy tidy blocks and given this the kids. This allusion that they've understood a mastered things with them instead of spacing out over time and into leaving and constantly do retrieval activities and so on. So they've certainly told me what not to do and really highlighted the mistakes. I've made 'em and almost by definition if you know what Not to do it. It gives you a pretty good guidance about what to do so again. My powerpoint look completely different. I use a lot more silent. Work in lessons am mm-hmm I schedule in retrieve opportunities whether it's low stakes quizzes whether it's autism mixed topic homeworks and so on and so forth hydro tries to weave together. Different areas of mouths abysmal. The system ethically. But I take Chris Point or minor protection of Chris's point that it's it's quite general in the sense that it doesn't tell me how I should approach teaching angles period while Wednesday morning. My Year eighths. It gives me some general principles about what not to do and what to do. But it doesn't tell me what a good example to start. What with and welcomed sequencing is and so on and so forth good instructions but then look at the other things? In particular atomization. The notion of example problem paths and in particular variation theory. And they do. I believe. Give me guidance on on what to do so with atomization this notion of thinking about all the things that students need to know to have the best chance of understanding this new idea or this new method that that I I want to teach them and saw them out. I assessing kids on the standing of them. Take with a diagnostic question. Isolating that that those those Kamal steps those concepts and dealing with those first so that when students come to see the words example their attention can be on how it fits together the as opposed to thinking hard about each of the individual components that does give me guidance about what to do for the most for most topics are most ideas. Then when I come to the wet example itself I do my five stage process that starts with silent teacher in the news and read the Maths and so that I talk about in my workshops. I'm D- Big Plug alert. I talk a lot about in my upcoming book at reflect expect check explained again all designed to focus jeans attention and make that ethic worthwhile that they put into following. What I'm doing I believe does guide me what to do and then the practice that follows that initial mopping I want it to be meaningful? I want my students not to cruise through on autopilot will be like procedure following robots. I want to think about relationships connections. I want them to do have an opportunity to discuss to challenge the conjecture in short on them to think. mathematically infamy the principles of variation theory really helped with them and then when we get title to problem solving and I use my SSD my same surface different at deep problems to get students thinking hard about differences not just similarities and getting them. I'm good at those tricky wooded exam questions where the kids are like. I don't know where to start on what this is about again. I I feel that my reading of in particular Bjork's were combat up and really gives me practical things to do and also I won't always do this. I won't always use an example problem path sickly when it comes to two definitions thousands of things in mathematical terminology. I'll use a lot of examples non examples and if you've used variation theory website you'll know my rule activities entities the ones with a green background. They're all about showing students something that is Catholic varying. It's and showing that shoot something that isn't to allow them to discern what it it is that makes it belong into a category not belonging to another category and so and so all these tools and approaches. I've got up my sleeve and they've all come from my reading adding of cognitive science and related research. So I find it very hard to believe that it is useless in in terms of defining or ornately me to teach more effectively. which brings us onto angelman now again as I said to Chris? I've tried to Dublin Hanuman. God Almighty's Art. I mean if you if you if you struggling sleep. And he's He's worth is worth ago. I'd recommend that. And if you is kind of almost like a form of meditation because nothing else matters when you read in it because if anything else starts to seep into your thoughts forget it. I can't even get through a sentence like it blocks out all my worries trying to read one of the sentences senses so he's good for that but in terms of kind of trying to digest and take something away from it God on the impenetrable so luckily we've got people who are super small like Chris to to to to force and even Christie's on mitten he's on his fourth reading off and it's only now kind of really starting to make sense so my understanding thing is angelman seems to be the best of everything the best taking the best of cognitive science the best of Van contact load theory the best of variations on and so forth bought. All all is kinda getting their first. Okay there independently. It's not been designed based on this with with with concerts foundation. It's been designed separately to this again again as Chris mentioned it's is quite reassuring for for funds of cognitive science. Like I am the the two the two theories or approaches support. Each of but Christie's view in England is the that is practical that does tell you effective ways to teach again. This notion of sounds like a guarantee it's logically faultless. You cannot fail to understand their seem lodging being able to say that to get you cannot fail to understand this and the way Chris Prescribes it. It's super practical but again it needs to be more accessible because this goes back to my question. Becky Lynn's question for when Chris was on the show last last like. Why isn't everybody doing this? Why are the only people banging on about England? That I'm aware of a Christian navene why everybody banging on about this and also This is the other interesting thing for me like I can do is talk on cognitive load theory or toll come desirable difficulties or talking to my position and within like let San hour or an hour and a half or ideally. If I get to spend half an IRA full day with with a team of teachers they can leave leave. That workshop lead that session with something they they can do the next day and not just that but something. They can do the next day regardless of what they're teaching so it doesn't matter if you're a primary teacher doesn't matter if you teach in year eleven is as the metric butter. The teaching fractions invitation straight line graphs. Their principles that you can take away. That can improve the teaching if that concept immediately early I believe and also things. You can embed long-term now. He's is that true Angelman. I like could I go to Angelman workshop for half a day and come away with something I can use straightaway my lessons tomorrow. Maybe but all those things that I'm taking away the same things that I could have taken away from a cognitive science talk do I need to to get the most out auburn. Do I need to fully engulfed myself in it and and and do it from start to finish because it's fascinating nitin of wonder Wien Rizvi was was on the show. And it's one of my favorite interviews. She she described in depth. Herbal the standing of Evan Goldman's work and how he's tried to make it work practically and she shoos gracious and in kind enough to share the booklets that she uses which are essentially scripted. They have the choice of examples the sequencing of questions and so on and so forth and again it's really mixed reaction on twitter once and that that booklets available in the show from the means episode because it was so different to what lots of teachers we I used to and it wasn't I didn't get the get the feeling that even if I was teaching the exact same topic that navene shed the booklets who that all the that I could just having read. Had the booklet straightway going the next day and start using it because it was a whole culture shift is is the right phrase but it was it would require a massive change. So it's I get the sense that I may be wrong here. The angelman is work isn't littered with quick Quinns and if it is those quick wins the Saint Quincy you could get from cognitive science and to get the real power of Angelman. You've gotta go in deep on it but again I could be wrong but wouldn't it be great as I mentioned to Chris a wouldn't it be great. If the watt support on this so the was like England series of I've have booklets outlet as he is the his assemble saints equations. His the Fraction operations here is the straight line. Graph swelled the has this kind of sequence in the has the scripts that has the examples the non examples and and so on and so forth the shows what it looks.
"cognitive science" Discussed on Mr Barton Maths Podcast
"That way literally said teaching will never be an evidence based profession. Kasit look like the conditions within schools of subset. You literally can't run. The kind of undermines controlled trials double blind trials that the medicine And so you do have these problems and that does make it very difficult. Sometimes to place a computer difference themselves elsewhere. The second has low quality studies which I think is pot wall so he's going to look at I've one that claimed at direct instruction by by which they meant teaching kids stuff really but they said direct instruction Closes Down Children's ability to creatively and this was a paper that I think think had tested eighteen pupils had nine th I think he wants to be a four year olds even actually United School People's nine control all group nine an invention group election when you dive into at the claims that were made in the abstract which were being tweeted out. uh-huh enormous enormous leaks from their research. Action said the abstract could season upset. Direct instruction makes it easy if it gets to that we wanted to based on their actual analysis based on their own. so you're gonNA pump up low-quality massage and that's always a difficult one. Sometimes you just have to find experts you can trust and who you know are going to do high quality such Good meta-analysis sift out the bad stuff for you. But then to tighten all the went back to the first question and this is why. I think it would would be a tragic loss if we backtracked on all of the progress that we've made with actuation cognitive science. As most of the the principles that have been derived from cognitive science of being derived from the borough trials not field studies so that always the laboratory trial. It's it's control conditions. You don't have all the noise come through the schools so the downside of that is because it's not the environment in which the trial is taking place. It doesn't look like the environment in which apply the idea. There are some things that might not transfer to directed away. You'd expect at quite often some of the memorization trials example. I ask people to memorize patterns of words words of nonsense words. which isn't something that we actually very often do in school concentrate? We tend to want to convey Stevens acknowledged interrelated and meaningful ideas so there was a concern but nevertheless you all getting something fundamental about how the human mind works and how human cognition operates from these the bar trials and we can learn a tremendous amount from that and applied in the costumes and passionately passionately. Arguable South I really do think that we need to see science as real bedrock of what we're doing now we do need. I say all teach Ole teaches to to be familiar with envy. The apply It's findings as best they can and I think this isn't. This isn't a fat. This isn't isn't something that in five years should go away because it was just the next brain gym. I think it's something that should be here to stay forever. We recognize has its limits and then we build on top of it when the next set of ideas which in this case I've argued I think all of us should be and getting to grips away. Then Gobert Utah Gains Theory of instruction. Chris obviously as well as I say the still many questions I need to ask him for Paul Four execs. Exactly right I Chris whether I see you in person or I saw it from from the podcast I always learn something always challenged that obsolete pleasure and this has been no exception so Chris Paul thanks so much for speaking to us tonight and and so they..
"cognitive science" Discussed on Mr Barton Maths Podcast
"Absolutely I think you're going to save a marketable AIDS. Well let let me just go a little bit further like again. WH WH- The the point where we which to get to here is that that you're arguing that that cognitive science possibly has has a limit to its. Its usefulness usefulness like some of the things you've mentioned there like it's quite a long list right like I say we take retrievals leaving and spacing. They they come into quite a few things he then start choking into the mix some of the other things you've spoke about about kind of the narrative structure in the power of fats. Then we start if you want to loop in cognitive load theory Marinela there. There isn't many areas of instruction where these things don't have an impact and I would argue a positive impact so it's not as if this. He's quite a niche thing or a small part of instruction this is is pretty significant and widespread. What wouldn't you say so I would ask and If you're reading about those different things we listed the different cognitive load back down the various different things that can benefit from this. And if you also have been coming to this new or you're in your fence to teaching something like that. To what extent does it really tell you anything think about how to teach totalitarianism civil tinians equations or the congregations in Spanish. Okay now that's good. I'll give you got so all right so couple of things so cognitive load theory may suggest ways not to do it right so the stood ways we could present that information a nation that would not be useful whether it's redundancy whether it's split attention so and so forth as you say worked example effect would start to to suggest ways that actually do it so to break breaking it down into smaller more manageable steps. which again may lead onto example problem pass and so on and so forth so I think again it's not as if it's all theoretical I think there's this definite practical takeaways either? What not to do what to you do that? I mean. I can't speak outside the world of mathematics but certainly it's reading those theories which made me rethink how to teach a lot of the mathematical mathematical ideas. That I've taught in the past because I think that's what it's particularly good at involving is about how coaches we may have have been inclined towards taking all teacher training mat directed towards and putting them under the Lens filter that reveals why the so ineffective I if you if you ruling out instead of I wanted approaches that immediately reveals in use to you but if I take something like what example. Oh I I do not believe that. They are like the best approach. I think that they have a place. teachings things and multi problems like solving some things equations but. I don't believe they are that they alone and not going to help you. Communicate with guaranteed one hundred percent success. Something that has so many constituent pots. It's too high level also within this is actually no. Oh there's no theory of knowledge all noted analysis so there's nothing that looks across on his Matson languages totalitarianisms things equations and and says this is how the different and that will. This is how you should teach them how you should approach his today. Okay okay so are we saying the limit of cognitive science is it can suggest things that aren't particularly effective. I may give some kind of hints as to what might be not take us all the way or is is that overly simplistic. I think. That's probably a good summary of what's in my head. I think it's also really important to to to to consider how how deeply you would think about these things. How much time you spend thinking about putting it into practice the conversations you have with people? You'll really actually despite writing a book about how I wish. I'd told Matheson being fifteen years already. You all want to be adopted. Doctors in one of the people who've got on board really early on and invested huge amounts time enough and I'm interested in. What does this offer to people who looking for something more of a quick fix? If you don't have time to investigate they go lessons to teach and they're interested in how to do better but they needed to be reasonably quick. And how can that go wrong. And this is why we get into the ideas on things like lethal mutations and how it can be applied incorrectly or even when I think about my own. Teaching Definitely had eliminate even in my last year teaching a site. I was trying all kinds of different things that AH broadly. Speaking on line ways and the theory as outlined here this is a load of options now had approach teaching teaching specific and bits of knowledge specific concepts. Okay I'm not sold on the dream just yet here bull thank. You can sell it now if he told me the alternative then so what what's beyond cognitive science. If we've reached the limit their say we've got these mid adopters looking for looking for quick. Fix Looking for something that calm and I love. I love the the term lethal mutations. If we're looking for some can't go wrong. What is it Chris so I think we need a treat? Cognitive Science liked is The foundation of our evidence informed education movement movement. So it is it is the bedrock upon which we can start to build out theories of instruction similar to obviously what has also done So we want something that can give his endless guidance and actually how to teach at if we are worried that we keep treating competent sciences. If it's the the bleeding edge as this is the thing you need to know that increasingly teachers will be disappointed when they realize it doesn't solve all the problems all oh explain how to teach but they shouldn't be because I don't think it's what it can do does a great deal for us but has its limits and once we hit those limits once you you've understood the sort of independence area and even stood the effects from John Swat in Mali view. The next thing that we've onto onto ends Engleman and nines theory of Instruction House this week meeting. They actually been reading recently. This is published published in the early eighties. And I have never actually read the forward the full advent Bobby Dixon this was put into the nineteen ninety-one addition and he described it then as the only theory of instruction in existence and with thirty on but to my knowledge. I don't think that has changed. I don't think that there are alternative theories of instruction in the way that Robert Dickson meant that nothing is as comprehensive considered as Angelman Nines I don't believe that any of us can be as effective a teacher as we could be without outs working knowledge of this theory and its application okay now that the thus thus a big claim and just just before we dive into the weeds of this I tried to read a bit vague employees l.. crissy's it is tough. I'm so one question before we go deep into this. Is the the cognitive sciences against that. We spoke about particularly the retrieval spacing interleaving. If we if we learn pain cognitive load theory into this. Would you have this may be too crew to turn. But is it's not prerequisite knowledge before people start thinking about this theory of instruction or can you can you ditch all that stuff and just dive straight into what we're going to talk about. No you could. I think you absolutely codes but I'm not sure to what extent I would recommend it. I'm I'm in two minds about this. I am a vase radical quite often so I think the savings very cognitive science is very important. I I think it should be no one of the big reasons I think it'd be important to To know it is because it's so I'm going to stay. Maybe of instruction is fully compatible with the Mecca Dacians that come from company to science so if you run the theory theory of that theory of instruction through the same filter that we talked about the soul it passes it gets through and yet was developed without without those principles of company science in mind. So I'm to to do that is kind of extraordinary achievement. Cheaper you can design something without reference to daily and it turns out to be completely compatible with daily that in the natural sciences. This is usually taken to be a when to converge or compatible with each other as taking is a good sign that you'll heading in the right direction. Is it worth me saying anything about how it was about. Oh Yeah Yeah. That's how it was so it's built on an built on top of a number of assumptions. The idea is those axioms that we just have to take a face value potentially think count even be proved treated a little bit like Euclid geometry and then they festive since the first assumption. Though is that people people can learn from their environment. I think most would probably accept that connection and that's exciting the experience you learn things rather than letting taking place we had a CALICO without. Yeah I'll take for that one. Yep Okay so so then they say well look if you WANNA unsaid letting than you only to analyze the environment and the letter and so the the the environment environment they call that analysis of communication. So when they say by they don't actually just made like the The room that you've walked into they might mean Add some presentation by a teacher or textbook in other words. Some kind of external stimulus Monday I talked about the land that they call that analysis of behavior. So how does the Leonard How do they behave in response to this communication and then walk in? Tell us about things that we might need to change. They do said this interview. Most of the such time was into the behavior of Lenin China's not so much into they announced as a communication. That's what most of the book is focusing on. And they do actually when they talk about letting they refer to it as cognitive learning as even though they're not directly having the kinds of principles and talking about earlier and they do see the work as being related to accompanied activity of some salt. I just to clarify because this isn't subject-specific in any in any sense this is a generic theories let's this rights completely They addiction against us in. This poll was coming up the exact quote but it's something like a comprehensive theory of hi to teach everything from basic physical not even academic knowledge from physical activities physical skills all the way up to more complex cognitive the depth purchases as well Geez. I think that's one of the things that really cut lured me in with cognitive load theory the fact that so many examples pulls a so wealthy to to mathematics just it just resonated a made sense as soon as I start to hear color generic theory that it's going to work for all subjects immediately I'm skeptical so this this is this is a big feat that they go in for right so they they have a third party as well which they call the analysis as of knowledge systems so they have these three parts coming together analysis of communication analysis of behavior and then analysis of knowledge systems and with the knowledge which system idea Their argument is you can't design effective communication for for concept. If you don't fully understand the the concept you're trying to communicate right they also say if you understand something about how different concepts might be related to one another than you want to send something about how they should be told so. AM They give the example of disagreement. Extra we can play this game because they I don't think I say what is the I think it's.
"cognitive science" Discussed on Mr Barton Maths Podcast
"Okay. So Chris Bolton first off welcome back to the PODCAST APP how he got only good. Thanks for having me back. It's always been available on anew to build a real pleasure tonight contractually obliged to say a lot so that's gone now this year last on you've been on a few times using kind of confrontation ways but this is the last time you on properly was October. Twenty seventeen which was part too we teased apart. Offend we've kept the crowd waiting so before we dive into part three. What what have you been up to in the last well over two years now been that long two and a half years everything by Mike complete my life completely changed? I just started working it up then at that point so he had the were there. Were five of buzz in the basement. Defendant to shop and now the fifty something of his walking out of a lot large two storey office in old street. So yeah been working really hot so build Atlas Company and build the team. It's been a Helluva Jenny really exciting. Adjust them for the benefit. Let's newsworld away. I'll give you a free plug. A just just tells a little bit about Oberlin. Hey It's an online study division platforms cover the full edibles. It just powered by communist science not official intelligence so the idea is to guarantee that anybody who when the courses would get ama stop and at this point we also the back. That up was a money back guarantee in the future we wanted to be an absolute guarantee. JEEZ flipping back fantastic. Okay right well the reason you're you're back. Chris is because I remember seeing this. I forget what which research had it was whether it was research had national one of the regional ones but you were given a toll about so cognitive science. I'm in either the title or Glib e you will to this sentence cognitive science. He's almost useless for designing designing effective teaching. Now when I read that I thought is I lost his mind or as an sprints because the thing is Chris Y'all kind of one of the main people responsible for getting me into appreciate in the power of cognitive science and reading as much research as I could get my hands on and change in my teaching teaching based on the findings of this and then I read the you've changed your mind so I'm I'm a combination of confused and annoyed so you've got to explain what what's going on. Did you really believe this is is operatives is almost useless for defy designing effective teaching on Sleigh. Yes I think so after all. It is a theory of people commission. So it's closely tied to ideas about human letting so what it's no is a theory of instruction action okay. I'll tell you what before we get to where we have to define if he thinks cognitive science is one of these phrases that gets pumped it around the what. What do you mean by cognitive science? I understand it as they tried to put this. In my own words I find the people that know more than me correct make but minds on so if you say it's a theory of could mission. We talk without one. I I guess I think of a AH Some exciting theory of human mind all have thinking hostesses take place the the positive involved in that from a psychological perspective at a conceptual perspective rather than a Biological Niro physiological perspective. The two can be related. But I think where it's slow on the cusp of understanding how to connect this theory of cognition to model physiological models of how the brain works so that that can tell you something about About Leonard is about the condition of up condition of of learning the poses. Take Nice. That's quite distinct from telling you how to take something on Monday and the one of the reasons. I'm concerned the Chris is the as you got me into into into thinking about cognitive science but now a lot of people are into it right and I know there's a danger that we're in this kind of twitter bubble where we only see. The conversations are being conducted over twitter. And so on. And you can get blindsided into thinking that that everybody's engaged with with with research bulletin certainly more teaches on than I've I've known throughout the majority of my career. More people are talking about whether it's Bjork's work or cognitive low theories on and so forth so are we going wrong. Should we not be talking about this if we want to improve teaches. I think we should be But what I'm worried about is I'm worried that actually very soon say within the next I guess. Cognitive Science is going to be dismissed by lot of these people. As last decade's fad by bio by which people the people who propose it now all the critics of now nope by the critic despite the so. I think so if let me stop giving you like a bit of a time line is my experience with us so I fash back a little bit too. Doesn't six coach pitch ten downloading and produce. Why don't students like school too? I think very very important important texts into the Bengal. An ice started letting to train. Its teaching twenty eleven at the point that I started everything about my training was about constructivism. That was a lot of things about cognitive conflict. There was nothing at all about time. Cognitive Science as we understand it in any way shape or form and I started reading things like the cushions patent dominating spoke over the Christmas up to my first time having a pretty terrible bowl. Best time of trying to teach things and for me this was this was relate to it. It's completely changed my world when he started trying to stay with my two about none of my two-dozen heard any of this stuff before when he spoke to my colleagues about it none of them heard before as a felt like there was Daisy Christodoulou by by the this quite a bit and then me and Jacoby start banging the drum of this as well but this is about. It's if I go and I speak to my little world anyway if I speak with I I Judas at the university about it. They've never heard of anything around cognitive science. If I speak with my mental mental illness. They'd never heard anything about it. Like calling most the other teach versus. Haven't heard about it as well and just listening. Sorry to interrupt. You mentioned it to kind of key. Sources the Willingham Book. That's that many readers. Many listeners will be familiar with the Kushner swallowed clot paper. That's the why minimally minimalist structures to start one. Why yeah why? Minimally guided instruction is Anna Defective. And just again. The reason I'm asking you. This is where I'm looking off Paul cash and it's coming on the on the show in the next couple of months what what was so profound about that. Protect that paper in particular so there was a quote from that paper Ms View really good ones but one of them. That always stuck with me of last year's was the Abe all instruction is too old to long term memory if nothing has changed in long term memory nothing has been learned and like most of my Ed teacher training had been fairly pie in the sky. Compensation it was very. What do you think good? Teaching looks like leading questions. Like AH quiet classrooms. Always the best classrooms or like really high level step around the purpose of schooling and education and shaping the lives of our students. What are we won't find students over the next twenty years? Nothing about what. My job job is on Monday and this gave me a profound sense of clarity. My job is to Ulta. What isn't that long term memory? A now I need to learn how to do that and both this paper and Williamsburg will also very good on them extolling rolling the virtues or other role as long term he plays in human cognition so I tended to start off being quite as afraid of longtime memory i. I can't memorization. Rote memorization and other quotes from that paper. That's the things like him the past that he has to the company signs nights. It's revealed to us that had to go that long term memory is not just a passive repository of discrete isolated facts nor does it have nearly a peripheral referal row in human cognition on the country. It is a central dominance as structure in human cognition So it is this whole sort of reshaping of my understanding of what independent creative critical thought is. It's not the sort of abstract nebulous the idea. It was something that could be concrete The function of what we have in long term memory the the amount of knowledge we have have the relationships between the knowledge as well Plus a few other things so yeah I felt like it gave a Philadelphia to give quite a bit of clarity around while my job was and where if I could go next to learn more and I'm picturing here so your read this and reading the Willingham booking he chooses and and that in any of it I associate you and Joe Kelley a bit of a breakaway group. Here just kind of in secret reading this the way things out is it like that kind of seed the secret about it. I think we're both very noisy about it. I think quite a lot of people would rather just shut up edited Kicked a lot of this off and then Yeah Joan I with the first of all of us if you were than others did come with us in in two thousand seventeen missile launch. For the first time that would become hugely influential. Twenty thirteen man Joe. Other friends started writing blogs out these things as well L.. Daisy launched a book seven minutes. And so do you get some sort of momentum starting over up to twenty thirteen twenty fifteen gene very important here and you launched this madness. This podcast I this is going to play a really important Ronin things I think and so in two thousand sixteen. We're five years on and something really important happened that I think most people aren't aware of Michael Stephen Monday lead. I'm not sure what you'd call a government expert repoll or what exactly but essentially if you google Monday report and Yuen Diy report you'll find that He led a team of people to produce a framework by which initial teacher training providers ab should be structuring. That causes that they supposed to be delivering training in line with the guidance in this framework and it included a requirement to teach training teachers about cognitive signs about working memory about long-term as well as so important ideas in assessment daily as well I remember thinking on the one hand when I looked at that. This is a seminal moment but on the other hand because it's a great work without much more behind that is it's quite thing what it says. I think most was training providers if they were so inclined could largely ignore it or do sorta band minimum to say that they tick the box so I was a little i. I wasn't confident. It was going to have the impact that I wish it would have and then in two thousand seventeen to two extraordinary things happened the the first ones that Dan Willing but is famous tweet saying the more lead about it the more I thought John Swallow cognitive load. David was the single most important daily Foale teachers to to learn about and I think up until that moment this was seen as a bit of a niche thing that some people were doing that really sent it mainstream. Not that all still Dylan William is not right. I think he's done Willingham. Dylan William the tweet us. Sorry Dylan William. Yeah and that's probably the most famous tweets in kind of education real history. Is that right. That was the one really kick started absolutely exactly and in the same year you interviewed daisy and Greg Ashman and a few of the people as well and these are the people who started getting you to all the evaluation be thinking mid-career Crisis Chris Subsea using right. Now I can definitely I know what that would feel like a little following. Yeah you published a book explaining on that and and every school being whenever. I've been visiting training speaking wince. Mass departments mess teaches. That will reading a book so at least within maths departments that ascent cognitive science hype mainstream. So that'd be really exciting. This is a problem because I'm sensitive. Twist Taylor 'cause that's a nice happy end in right for it let. Let's lessen the conversation there. But wh- academic. You'RE GONNA go wrong here. What could go wrong? Exactly the right question. So what I think's around I think so I feel like I hit. The limit of cognitive science could often means a teacher quite a longtime ago. But I'm okay with that. I appreciate that. This is a natural limit. It's not everything I appreciate that. It's naturally unlimited what it can offer but then when I go is okay. I spent quite a long time reading about this and talking about it and discussing it with friends friends and colleagues and I'm comfortable with that idea of a limit but what happens if you're one of the sort of mid mid adopters midterm adopters. I who are now part of the mainstream part of the lodge largest group of people who haven't prepared to put in that same level of that's amount of time and what they're hearing hiring is This is the latest thing this is GonNa. Finally I turn your teaching around. All like hyper accelerate your teaching so that all the kids are GonNa be doing amazing things you start looking at. What's out there and you run into a whole bunch of problems so at Clay Hill and a few others started talking about this idea that the cold lethal mutations as one of them which I think is brilliant one of the best examples?.
"cognitive science" Discussed on Mr Barton Maths Podcast
"Cognitive Science is almost useless that designing affective teaching So I had to get Chris back on the PODCAST ON A. I am incredibly glad that I did. In a wide-ranging ranging compensation we discussed the following things. I'm plenty more besides. Does Chris Really believe that. Cognitive Science is useless for designing effective teaching. What actually is cognitive science? What are the limits of cognitive science? What's the alternative that Christie so keen on? How actually does it work in practice? And if it is so flipping brilliant. Why is it not taken over the world on along the way Chris you be living this listeners pulls apart the the way I teach quite a few things but in particular expanding double brackets on? It's changed the way. I'm GONNA approach that forever now. This interview references. Lots from Christie's Christie's first appearance on the show especially with regard to his plumbing of that sequence of lessons on similar size equations. So if you have time I would recommend a quick refresher about episode before diving into this swamp. Well as quick as three hours of your life cumby but if he can't do that this episode should absolutely find as a standalone and one one big plug before we start at my new book reflect. Expect check explain is due for release at the end of February twenty twenty. It's my potentially controversial. Look at how how to use Catholic varied sequences of questions and examples in the classroom to enable students to think mathematically now it's based on minor protection of a small all possible variation theory. Something Chris and I talk about a lot in this episode and hopefully listeners will find interesting whether you've dabbled in the stuff on my variation theory dot com website on not whether you are familiar with their Asian theory or not and whether you believe in minor patient of it's on and there's also so a chapter in there which is my reflection on all the things that I've learned in the two years since how I wish I told him came out when I've been looking looking to visit schools around the country working with teachers and students from different backgrounds and so on and so forth and that particular chop to supposed to be a small one just quit reflection on how my views have changed on a few things I've learned and so on to not to be over forty thousand woods which is Long the many books in its entirety the basic idle ought to reflect on. I hope list listeners will enjoy reading. The book reflects expert to check explain available to preorder for Mamas and now to guarantee delivery on their release release date on. There's a link in the show notes anyway without further ado. Let me introduce part three of Chris Bolton interview series now. This could be godfather three coming along long after par to and potentially dividing the critics or it could be toy story. Three calls the listeners to weep uncontrollably during the last ten minutes. I'm just hoping that I'm money to avoid it becoming terminator three anyway. Strap yourselves in for this one and get ready for a couple of hours of wounded the fleet thinking from Wallace. Anyway as either I will see you on the other side. uh-huh uh-huh.
Designing Anticancer Drugs with Reinforcement Learning
"Having a background in cognitive science and computational neuroscience and so I've been like focusing focusing on brain research for my pastor five years of education and now recently I've been doing more work on computational tation assistance biology and specifically on cancer and cancer trying to understand mechanisms of how cancer work and how we can find new treatments against cancer specifically quickly and in this work. I've been using mostly deep learning techniques and this will be part of like my presentation here at this conference. It's also and so yeah. So how do those things go together. So I think like many people think it's in a way weird if you come from brain scientists and then you go into machine running right and this is something I would say. It's like it's a very obvious thing to do in a way because if you look back into the history of machine she learning where it all came from like McCulloch and Pitts the first artificial neuron and then a few years later Frank Rosen ballot the perception. And so these were all computational neuroscientists and they were in the end really trying to understand how the brain works and they basically develop the The fundamental of the field of machine learning and so at some point this community and in a way it split up into groups and one group was more trying to and actually understanding the brain works and the other group was more interested in solving the problems. Right right and from this from this community. The machine learning learning community evolved into but whereas computation neuroscience right. Now it's it. It's still a field. It's still out there. It's has been separating more and more from the machine community what's there and originally it has been one like one big community. Yeah and so therefore I think it's quite natural to to have the process. Yeah Yeah you know I think Particularly here at Noor ups I have opportunity to speak with many folks that are kind of working on on that edge of cognitive sciences brain sciences and both using that to inform the way we think about machine learning using machine learning to validate you know some of the biological theories it was maybe more novel is coming from Cognitive Science and brain science and applying machine gene learning to developing cancer pharmaceuticals out in that. Come about yeah. How did that come about a good question? So like if you look at brain scientists this really this problem of seeing the brain which is arguably the most complex thing we have in the universe and and seeing like observing this brain and trying to understand his brain from at different scales at different spatial scales so to speak. So you can think about about the brain in the very abstract and cognitive ways thinking about cognitive phenomena like language and memory those things and you can think about it more from from neural perspective like how do act like what is the most fundamental unit of information processing. How do these units interact? How does information arise? And so like these two fundamentally different approaches and so I like in the first three years of my studies focused on cognitive science which has more top down approach unlike thinking from the big concepts and then down towards the implementation level whereas competition neuro science. They have more like the spot. Him Perspective They in the end and they're trying to solve the same problems but they start first with the basic building blocks like having a biologically plausible neural network model will that imitates basic behavior of neurons. And then they try to scale it up in order to understand more complex cognitive phenomenon and so like these field they really deep. They help each other and they need to work together in order to better understand how the brain works and so after after Android area defeating. Okay I need something a more solid and I really wanted to have this bottom up perspective from competition neuroscience which then I got my masters and so afterwards I I I mean I have to say that I was keen to explore and applications of machine learning because while studying the brain I got really interested more and more into the whole field of data signs and machine learning but and I wanted to apply those techniques but at the same time I wanted to I wanted to still somehow how work with the human body and with humans in general so this is how you how I came about him doing cancer Consume drunk modeling and so the poster is titled Pacman. Tell us about yeah Eh. So pacman is a frame. I mean it's an acronym so spelled with a double double and so it's an acronym. We came up during in my like about a year ago. During my master's thesis for prediction of anticancer compound sensitivity with multimodal attention based neural networks. And and so like when my supervisor came about with this acronym one of very long nights we spend in the lab. We like okay. There's no discussion. This is GonNa be the name for the project. Ah So quite funny how this came about so and we what we're doing in this work at that was the first step step off of the project and presenting at the conference. We were trying to basically forecast the effect the inhibitory effect of emol against a specific type of cancer and so we are treating this problem of predicting cancer drug sensitivity. Not really as the property of a pair and the pair is con- like composed of Itself the chemical the drug that you give to the patient and then the particular to more sell that you want to target because cancer is really like A. It's a family of diseases and the SORTA verse I. I mean there has probably never been two types of cancer that have been exactly alike because the Medicaid of mutations you have they vary like hillbilly inbetween of every individual patients. So it's really unfeasible to try to investigate whether molecule has some onto cancer effects in general. So you really need to treat this problem as the property of pair. So is this drug like hesitant. inhibitory effect against this specific type of cancer patient individually one of the questions. That comes up I is one of the techniques. You're applying here reinforcement learning. How does that play into Into achieving that goal so it comes about in the second step first that was really just trying to predict the sensitivity so the efficacy of Audrey and so what we what we did in consecutive step after we had built this model what we asked ourselves was like. Wow wouldn't it be amazing to have a model that can generate rate new drugs at can like come up and propose new anti-cancer candidate rex. Because in the old pharmaceutical industry there's a huge uh-huh productivity decline in the last few decades and the estimated costs that you have pulled new truck there Estimated to be two three billion Indian USD and most of these drugs that are like FDA approved and approved on the market. So they're really specific only for like very few types of diseases sort of even one disease only so the cost in our indeed that go are like spent in this business. It's just huge and and so we I mean we came up with this framework reinforcement. Learning is really core component. Where we're trying to design anti-cancer cancer drugs specifically for individual patients or groups of patients so we tried to envision the precision medicine perspective here where we're really We're not trying to generically. Come up with new cat. anti-cancer candidate drugs. But we try to like in the design process itself. Both we try to tailor the Monaco the drug specifically to the need of the patient himself or herself and so forth for this framework we use. We're using reinforcement Okay you also mentioned in the title of the poster transcript domain data. What is transcript Tomac data? You're right so you can think about transplant. Tomic data as basically The the expression of every single gene that you have in your body like you do you know about the human genome and so part of the human genome and code for specific proteins and these expression of these proteins. You can measure in the cell. That's different techniques techniques to do that so the most commonly used technique and the technique that was used to measure the data we work with is called are on a sequencing thing. Data we are you measure basically the M. A. Snippets in the cell. And so from this. You can infer basically which genes are expressed to what extent so so you end up if you if you do the sequencing step you end up with a vector of about twenty thousand genes and for each gene you would have an expression value view. This is usually just an integer. Like how many times did you find these Slip it in the sample. And then so this this vector Tori you can really think of it as like a fingerprint of the cell. So it's like it's a proper characterization of the cell there's different types of of comics data. So this is true. Tomic's data right. There's like also genomics data which directly directly measuring gene data and there's also also appropriate mix data actively measuring the the proteins
How Orbita is using Voice an AI to change the healthcare experience
"Joint today by Nick White of orbiter nick tells a little bit about who you are and what you do. Thanks they have great to be on my. My Name's Nick Wide. As you said I just joined open a recently in the roll off executive vice president patient kiss solutions and in that role look at product that we've gone cold over assists which is a vertical solution? Dove on top of the the over platform focusing on care for patients is and nurses and recently joined the team from Deloitte are being a consultant for many years focusing on How we help people go to disk judge to optimize the way they working every day and thinking about the use of conversational? I cognitive science technology. Oh Jeez and own alterations in terms of the future works of isolated individuals such as nurses or other individuals. They just don't sit behind a desk everyday totally totally so you know. I really wanted to bring Nick on today Because I think that you know as we are seeing with voice assistance in general. You know you're sort of seeing seen this new evolution where they're moving outside of the home and they're moving into new settings and healthcare is one of the settings that I find to be really intriguing. I think there's a whole lot of opportunity. Eighteen eighty in a wide variety of ways in which voice assistance can be layered into that new setting and so You know the first time I got exposed STA to orbital was an exa conferences ago I met nature or and I saw him speak in and I kinda got exposed to orbit a little bit and so before we really dive into orbit assist. which I know is really sort of like your your baby Can you tell us a little bit about the whole idea of orbiter. Yeah No Otas a fascinating organization. I what they have built at. Its Haas is a platform which allows you to do conversational. Management's using a low code on oak coded Borrowers Managing that conversation. That you WANNA have redid customized And then serving that up via any of the platforms be that Google or Alexa Chat bots web chat or even run analog sards art and that platform allows you to to have really rich management affect compensation and the direction that you want to take your shoes. When you're indecisive is new so so that is a platform was really fabulous when I looked at it at a t knows working group in it and then on top of that we're over it is gone on is starting to think about the vertical platforms that sit really nicely on top of that so I wanted to the spectrum with thinking about search engine optimization nations of voice thinking about voice I how do you win somebody is asking natural language processing question how you present the right answer to them it gives them the information they need and then direct them through a flow so getting your brand to position zero is really important in the voice spots yet yeah no I totally agree with that go on the second vehicle is the assist one ano? We're going to get into that mall. But that's really focused around. How do we use voice in clinical goal setting to support Eisenson noces in communicating with each other And providing that rich information transfer between them. We'll get more into that and then we're really focused on Myron is journey management once. You've left the health environment the hospital environments and you headed harms. How do we support you in sums of opened hearings in sunset Johnny managements as you continued to Move through your journey.
"cognitive science" Discussed on Data Stories
"Strategic and hi test questions and we have to make it concrete basically in a sense of pecan actually yeah I've been onto something abstract like uncertain team right so that is the size of the possibility space but that's not something for me some of the results that we've found what other things that we found was that people tend to believe the areas inside the cone wound are in the danger zone an areas outside a relatively safe which again is reasonable these are Air Caesar the same model we use to generate the cone of uncertainty and each of the lines in the spaghetti plot or just one run of that model so each of the lines it doesn't actually represent a predicted path it's sampling from the probability space of Armada make sense yes it does get the APPS knowing this where people believe every line in an ensemble no matter what ensemble is a predicted path which can be album because if you are shown three paths and one of them hits your town you think oh there's a thirty three percent chance to storm's GonNa hit my town if we just showed ten instead delay ten percent chance and that's just an arbitrary choice of how many paths to show and all the sudden you can really silence the type of risks that people think that they're under a note that if you have some amount of lines and one of them hits your home and then if you take that line away our scoot over you think your significant less significantly less danger so there's this on the line off the line fact that is actually coming out in a couple of days in the paper that we've we've recently published I see what's interesting too is now now think about the decision again people want to make already picking up on your training and I think it's all about individual decisions if evacuate or not you wouldn't have to show the full map but you could just provide people tool where they can look up their hometown and you get the probability right so you're touching on one of the large problems that I see which is that especially with weather but also in many other to Mainz oftentimes one visualization is created for every type of decision on every type of user so the same hurricane visualizations so you know in a perfect world I see us being able to get some information about user and make customize visualizations based on their task information yeah and with interactive tools. It's much easier to provide actually Taylor visuals I think maybe we're just so as you say focus on this idea that there should be one title to to catch all potential use cases maybe that's that's a really the floor run will the the other issue that that I like to point out is that if we start talking about interactive tools there's going to be a big technology gap the reality is that the people who need this information the most generally areas and are not in the US For example I did work with feeding where tried to help them the Haitian mint working with the Red Cross tried to help the Haitian government improve their early warning systems and basically we identified this area on the Western host a payday that is decimated by storms so we thought okay we'll we'll go and figure out what information they have will try to optimize that in maybe do some type of interactive tool what we found is that on the areas on that western coast of Haiti they don't have phones. TV's radio news Internet they have almost no access to information what they do have is they have a hurricane flag a flag that has raised hurricanes approaching and it is really hard to get someone to drive out on a motorcycle race that flag so these are the people that are have most impact from hurricanes you know we're we can't expect them to use an interactive tool we have to optimize his flag of access to So I think again I don't think it's a simple solution and here's what really thinks should be done is that we take all approaches yes we make interactive tools but also we do not forget about groups of people that don't have access to them so we just make sure that we're trying to cover this multiple different angles and don't only focus on some events technological solution but I think what you're saying that even in those situations there is space for specific designs that may were can explain more about those are but essentially a mental model is the way that you internally represent information so what we tried to do in Haiti for example is to identify what types of mental models that they had for hurricanes and provide them support for for their particular model and what that meant is their current flag system had five different colored flags for different categories of storms and you know what the difference between a category two and three hurricanes now of course you don't neither do the people of Haiti so they're provided with information that they don't know how to use at a relatively meaningless to them and what we found is because their their infrastructure so decimated they don't need to know the difference between four five they need to know Kabuga tropical storm is approaching so one of the recommendations that we made is to get rid of this five flags system and have a single her came flag that is raised if anything tropical storm is approaching so that's one way we tried to optimize what they are working with but again that's not a perfect solution and there's lots of design constraints but it was based on service thinking about some of the cognitive science of uh-huh how they're using this information and how to help them given their particular circumstance so much I think now you just mentioned mental models and we could record the whole new episode just a couple of episodes on mental models but I just want to say that's another area where right in in besides ation solid session research does so much more to do because we have these naive I think we have these nice way of salinisation is if people are just this blank slate right looking resides Asian and they're all interpreted the same way it's either bad or good right either effective or not effective but actually people are very different in the approach providence in very different ways a lot of background knowledge that have lots of different attitudes and these are really really big effect on the way the actually consume this information right so again I don't WanNa put you on the spot there was a huge topic right but what I will say is that the Nice thing that we've done in cognitive science chance is to formalize some of these very complex processes so in terms of mental models like you're saying there's so much that goes into that but we've we've developed some cognitive models that lay those down in sort of a framework so futures wanted to study one component of it you could again it's it is very complex but that's the business that cognitive science is what about for the last hundred years or more is trying to find ways to formalize these complex problems and to control all other variables and just test one small component of a frankly it is complex and usually what happens is one researcher concern tire career studying individual differences for example which is the the cognitive science term for how people are different so one in person might steady cognitive models but maybe someone studies how cognitive models ferry across different people may provide education or different different things or exactly language background risk level that they're interested also accessibility issues to think about too in terms of individual differences some of the work that I was talking about that you have to do in your mind sort of trade translating information in your mind different groups of people have different ability to do that and ensuring that you're not requiring Undo mental effort is a whole area of expiration cognitive science but you know that we just need more people doing this type of work it's a complex place so we'll have to close up sooner but from a perspective what's the way forward what are the things how is uncertain official station because it is an interesting scenario where all of these topics come to a head because you have complex data you have a complex decision and you have all sorts of different it is such a fascinating problem and the people that are doing uncertainty work are I think really thinking deeply about all these problems uh-huh which is so exciting so I think you're gonna see some really impressive stuff come out of uncertainty visualization in the in the coming future that is going to open up other areas of exploration but I think beyond that there's a couple big unexplored a bit to do with a valuation so we've developed such a wealth of ideas about visualization and there's a no growing amounts of evaluation that are happening but I think there is definitely some work to be done terms of experimental controls in relation making sure we're testing with in protesting an thinking about things like conflict of interest so for exactly exactly so I think that that's something that visualization research is really going to have to to deal with in some way and I don't know if I have a good solution for that other than it does help to at least collaborate with cognitive scientists that it doesn't have it was I was teamed up as a cognitive scientist with other visualization researchers and uncle was to test the visualizations that they developed listening to their stories.
"cognitive science" Discussed on Data Stories
"Those things to even figure out what happens at the decision making stab at things can go haywire and some my favorite workout of decision making behavioral economics demonstrates that we often take strategies from other contexts to interpret new information and when we do that we can come to ineffective conclusions that might seem irrational but they're based on a rational process in the rational processes that we can't compute every new decision every time we're interacting with new information just takes too much time if every time you had to decide what shoes to put on in the morning you had to do a it cost benefit analysis in your head that would take too long break so we automate some of those processes effectively the problem happens when we automating the process that we actually need to compute and that's where decision making comes in and it's it's neak because you you have to have some exposure to some of the work that's done in behavioral economics which is absolutely fast Canadian Encourage everyone to take a look at some of that Lee search it so so interesting to me that you know the way that information is framed can silence what we think about it or the way that information presented can influence how we how we make decisions with it so it's it's a unique step and it's very important for visual sation because they're some new elements associated with visualization that have been studied tradition finally in decision making decision making cognitive science in behavioral economics is generally done with risks like sort of betting scenarios with next month and when you add visualization in there it is unclear what happens visual information is is has a profound influence on how we make decisions and it's unclear what we've discovered in behavioral economics extends to the visual system. I what I argue is that the biases that we find probably going to be more profound harder to overcome visual system has stronghold on we think about information and I've found this in my research in a variety of other researchers have found this as well to give you a concrete example I've done work where we show people a visualization therre misunderstanding and we figure out exactly what the biases and then we give them lots and lots of training too you too know what the bias is had overcome it and then at the end of the experiment they can say they can tell us what the Bible says they should they tell us that they shouldn't make their decisions way but they still make decisions with the bias and you know we found that other researchers found it as well well and it is hard to overcome heuristic decision making research but what we found is the the magnitude of the Holte to overcome visualization via sees is stronger so it is I think that unexplored area that that we really need to sitter and like your point now not very many people have looked at it from a practical view super interested in the topic because Neko you said it's not discussed much but in a business context for corporate clients these that better action this question I know the question of well you're showing me all this things but what can do with this and what's the type of decision can make now supercrew Shaw and a lot of visualizations that is not actionable is considered like pointless and certain very very applied context ooh and my my failing was it has a lot to do with not just how you so things but especially starting from what you show it all is Do you have any like practical hints in terms of how you can actually design a data presentation so that it's more suited for for good the decision making or for being actionable in some way right so this is a question I get quite a bit and I do know that there's researchers out there who are trying to make guidelines and rules of thumb in those sorts of things I take a different approach which is I enough faith individualization designers and how deeply they think about these processes that I believe that if you know your user and you know the data that if you are then taught a little bit about decision making you can come to effective choices about how to visualize the data and by simply giving people rules or strategies that's really undercutting the expertise of visualizations seiners and I think that the power what visualization designers really to is they have such an intricate knowledge of of who they're communicating too and the data that they're using that we should really be leveraging that rather than automating huckstep again would mean to really I asked the question what types of physicians do you need to make and only then think about what data do you need them and then think about how to present the data's the would probably also mean like applying your reverse froth right yeah yeah so that's that is why I really liked the reverse process one caution I would say twos that when you're thinking about decision making its is a rare case where you know what type of decision you want someone I think so I do a lot of visualization of hurricane forecasting and I don't want everyone to evacuate and I don't want everyone to stay but what do want is people to make their best possible decision to have the information we present them to be clear on effective to help them reason to their best best of their ability because it's a personal choice and I would imagine in a business setting it's similar where you know I mean I don't want to empower people to walk in Annan show a visualization that has everyone taking sound finger yeah exactly I don't I don't think that that's Michael so it's it is a little tricky when you're reverse engineering because sometimes you WANNA start with saying here's what we want people to I do and I think you need to take one step back from that and say here are the important relationships that we need them to understand sure yeah so that's why you should not from the data availability or cut things which happens often and I mean again it's the classic this is how all the pipelines are presented right data than it's encoded they showed a and then there's an inside or decision and I think that again talking about biases that sort of more maybe also cognitive models you know then that can sort of create all these ideas how what also the temporal order of things is or what the importance Ordos things is like what the whole food chain is like maybe who knows yeah I definitely agree yes Lee's I'm wondering so I think you know briefly mention the fact that you're working with whether data few experiments on whether data and also I think there are also a really good example of the Kennel visualizations that can be used for decision making right so the citing whether you should evacuate evacuate an area for an Eric Amy's is a major decision that people have to make so I'm wondering can describe would you like to describe a little bit in more in detail what kind of decisions have been there in the how solid session may actually make this Asian better char so one of the things that we've found many reach researchers find as well is that when have complex especially probabilistic data that does help some people to have that information visualized 'cause we haven't as you know evolved in any way to understand probabilities in there's a big body of research that demonstrates how poor we at we are at reasoning with probabilistic information so that's a perfect candidate for trying to US officials ations when there's data that are the too complex for the average person to figure out can visualize data help them with that process in somewhere so that's step one we're trying to visualize that information all the recent confusion about hurricane forecasts and the issue is that uncertainty data visualized there's oh good solutions at this point for how to do that we've done numerous studies looking at that other researchers as well I'm actually writing a book chapter right now on that very topic and the the issue is that anytime visualize uncertain information you're making it concrete when we visualize something we voted in pixels on a page on screen but uncertainties abstract so we inherently have to require our users to take a concrete thing in their mind translate into something abstract not process of making them do that type work is extremely error-prone so what we try to do is to try to identify ways that are less effort full that process what's an easier transformation that people have to do in their minds are there some visualizations that naturally communicate the certainty where there's not as much translation in the context of Hurricane forecasts what we've started with was the cone of uncertainty which is currently used by the National Hurricane Center and what it is is a model that predicts the path of the storm and the cone edges the cone represent a sixty six percent confidence envelope around their mean predicted path of the storm and when we were first studied s we thought okay we'll we'll compare this currently technique to some updated versions based on modern visualization research in just see which one comes out on top essentially this this is what you see with the laws stop you for a moment when you say what comes out on top what do you mean what is how do you decide what's what's better right so in this context what we're doing is we developed a task where we have people estimate damage there was a lot of different tasks that people can do but we essentially show them a location on the map and say can you estimate the damage that would incur to this particular location and that's an interesting question because it avoids people having to do a probabilistic judgment which people are very bad at you know I would never ashes what's the probability that the storm would hit Louisiana rose king yeah yes so it's kind of tricky the way you have to be very among other things we cooked on estimates something numerically and you know sometimes when you do that all you're really testing is their experience with statistics so we we really wanted to find the kind of baseline evaluation that anyone could do and they couldn't do it that would give us some indication of how they're interpreting different visualizations so that was that was the task then we compare the cone uncertainty to four other visualization techniques wchs am including a new one created by collaborators which we calling on somboon display probably here called Spaghetti plot yeah and it's generally derogatorily called Spaghetti clench because when they're made poorly they can look like a mess of of lines kind of all Spaghetti mixed up together but that's where we started you know quite a few years ago was that was another technique available so we went about I mean if you know people make different damage ratings when they look at these official stations and part of the question is you know maybe they don't maybe the does Asian doesn't matter and so that would be pretty good to know what actually influences people's decisions and you know so we can get a sense of what is important what is it what we found out is that people come to a lot of misconceptions about the cone of uncertainty people think that represents the size take the storm growing over time it doesn't represent any information about size but they physically see the growing the cone the edge of it are the sort of the furthest extent of it is bigger than where it is start and if you know if you remember back to me talking about ristic's or rules of thumb it's reasonable that people are coming to that conclusion because we are showing them a map and they'd learned rules of thumb for Matt obscures sticks for maps and it suggests that size on a map can be equated to physical size in the real world you learn in school right awesome we're showing them this column and it has a size element to it and in order to interpret it correctly they would have to not imagine it as size but remained multiple that is the thing yeah yeah so I mean that's a case where some of the decision making research is in are not how we intended people to interpret it but that's not to say it's not entirely reasonable to to come to those conclusions in the one that you called the get the plot is actually every single line represents one potential path right well to the way that we so there's from ones so the ones that you see on the news for Hurricane Doreen for example not all when each of those lines are marked they're the main path of different predictive models so you have to take a look to see there's a legend that indicates which model in our associated with each one of his lines the ones that we tested what we wanted to do is to take yeah but so what you just said was the exact miscommunication that people come to if they're not told how these are made and we have been to other studies.
"cognitive science" Discussed on Data Stories
"I think with some guidance on Sunday principles of how the mind functions anyone can really integrate some cognitive science into the visualizations that they're making everyone welcome to your new episode of Data Stories My name is Brittany and I am a professor at Nyu in New York City where I teach and do research data visualization yes and I'm GonNa and I'm an independent design of data visualizations in fact ever as a self employed truth beauty operator out of my office here in the countryside and both of Germany and on this podcast we talk about data resides -ation analysis and more generally the role data plays in our lives and usually we do that together with a guest we invited the show and this time around we have lace Padilla on the show and we discussed with her about the relationship of cognitive science and data visualization and also cognitive science can do for a profession we also talk about why besides Asia research focus so much on low level perception and the role of decision making in data visualization and of course we also talk about hurricanes mental models but in all to learn what all this is about you'll have to listen to the full episode I'm afraid Yes before we start just a quick note our podcast these listener supported so there's No ads if you enjoy the show please consider supporting us with recurring pain Minson Peyton dot com slash data stories or if you prefer to send a one time donation that's also an option just gone paypal dot me slash leader stories that's right and we always happy about any contributions if you can't afford any monetary nations just send us a nice tweet or look nice review that's always great to anyways let's get started with the show as we said the topic today is cognitive signs data visualization welcome hi thank you for having me so can you briefly introduce yourself tell us a little bit about what is your background your interest in your current position sure I'm a cognitive scientist at the University of California said and I have a background in art I have an MFA design and I- fuse cognitive science with a little bit of art so what I'm interested in it's how the brain processes visual information and the way I like to do that is to look at data visualization how do data visualizations change how we think or feel or act in the world how can we make data visualizations better what are some techniques out there that currently need to be tested and more broadly how can we help people make high impact decisions with data visualizations is there training that we need to do is there ways to improve them some of the types of applications I've looked at our natural disaster forecasting like hurricanes and also uncertainty cognition for example making decisions about say procedure you might undergo something like that that's my broad broad background Super Interesting and it's traditionally a lot of data visualization researchers focused on low level perception like how well can be estimated area sizes or how good colors to encode certain types of information and the whole cognitive science angry I think is so interesting invaluable so can you tell us a bit cognitive science and and what we could learn from it as useful for visualization sure so cognitive sciences the study of the mind and there is a mind involved with data visualization there's always user hopeful ideally yes any time that you create a data visualization our goal is to provide to someone to help them due to some type of task or with some type of job so what we study in cognitive science is how people go about utilizing that type of information to help them with whatever it is they're doing and the way that cognitive science can help visualization researchers is a goose researchers a understanding of some the underlying processes that are work which could help you develop new visualizations it can help you iterating more quickly through your design process can help with testing as well to make sure that what you think people are doing with your visualizations is actually what they're doing and how they're interpreting it those are all really hard big questions that come science has been studying four hundred years really so it's a nice way of taking some usability questions in visualization and pulling some science from different fields to give you a foundation when you don't have to re study was topics that have been labored over for a long time that's really the benefit of of cognitive sciences I've been doing this for roughly a hundred years and we have a pretty good sense of how perception works I works and have a good sense of how how people's attention is attracted to different elements of official information and we have a good sense of how people learn information how they information for long term memory and on and these are all topics I mentioned briefly but there's thousands of researchers who've studied those in depth and all with those steps individually contribute to help people use visualizations seem like a daunting task to visuals Asian researchers to figure all of that out but I think with some guidance on some of the principles of how the mind functions any one can really integrate some cognitive science into the visualizations that they're making I think my sense is that related to what Mark was saying is that I always had this nagging feeling that we have we for many years we've been focusing on on low level perception but there is a whole world out they are that cognitive scientists have been studying and we we are not really aware of that and that that's one reason why I really like the type of work that you are doing because to me looks like it's one out on a somewhat different level and over the years I always had these as I said this nagging feeling the the this such a big gap between designers artists but then when you go to the science of it it's always this very very level and I don't WanNa say that it's not important relevant is is extremely useful but I always I always felt that there is something missing there it is true and frankly it's not a fault of anyone that's kind of the natural progression of science so the way got psychology hasn't folded historically as it started with low level perception just trying to identify what's going on with the eye with our senses so when we start applying what we learned cognitive science in psychology to new fields it's very reasonable reasonable place to start with the beginning of the process you imagine decision-making process it is a very Effective scientific approach to start with step one instead the balloon we move to step two and so on the issue is that it's all those steps are not easy to takes take time to figure them out so I think what has happened is there's just not a lot of cognitive scientists in working on visualization and doing the level research if there were I think it would advance a little bit more quickly I think what happens is the more interesting the thing to do is to create fancy nations rather than you know study though though why do people understand information way or should we make these visualizations and and I think that my approach does a little backwards so I started the end with how we make decisions and then kind of backtrack and say if this is what people actually do with this information how does that inform our theory about how they got here so if they had some air in there reasoning how can we figure out now that we know that there's an air where that air occurred in the process sort of like reverse engineering the whole the whole process of it and I started doing that because I think it's more interesting I wanna know what people do I want to help people make better decisions this today and so I start with decisions in work backwards but that was a a choice that I think other researchers may make different choices which are totally understandable I think one part of the challenge is it becomes intensity more quality attempt the type of research do probably it's so hard to count insides or to to say this decision was twice as big as the other one Kazeem area right Oh yeah yeah because if you have a longer process uncertainty can occur throughout the entire process than propagate through the system so few starting at the very end another soul much variability that might have happened it's hard to say this decision is produced by officials in this decision as produced by another visualization so the key to my research is that I do he controlled laboratory experiments to try to reduce some of that noise where possible and it's and it's not always possible it sometimes when you do told laboratory experiments you're you get so far away from the real types of decisions that people make it's not entirely informative but that is why you see the studies that do we have like three hundred participants in they do the exact same task hundred times where all we do is is change into one teeny tiny part of the visualization and that we test what happens Mitchell for that reason it's it can be really fuzzy at the end of the decision making process we're trying to eliminate some of that ended that scare researchers away as well because if you're looking at a low level phenomenon near looking at the neuronal level it's a little easier to identify what's making changes and we have to do experiments where we we're not up making big claims where we've solved the problem of uncertainty visualization what we do is many experiments where we simply provide evidence that this theory might the way people are understanding this information and death it's GonNa take you know many many experiments to build up lots of evidence to feel like we have right simply because you know it's a fuzzy process all the way at the end of of all those different processes in incision making yeah I think what is interesting now that you're mentioning you've been mentioning decision making a few times in that's one of the things that I really like about your approach and eat to me looks like surprisingly New Angle for visualization because I don't know why when we talk about this Asian or visualization research more specifically for some reason we don't really framing under the we look at it under the Lens of decision king right but at the work you do in the work you do decision making seems to be as you just mentioned the main thing right so I'm if you can comment a little bit more on what is decision making why is it so relevant for virtualization maybe even why we we don't we don't seem to have focused that much on this length so far which looks a really relevant to me okay so what makes decision making different from things like memory and attention and perception is that you can have a relatively perfect memory maybe you remember the information individualization exactly and maybe you understood it exactly and maybe it was visualized perfectly but when you get to that final step there's all these heuristic six which are rules of thumb strategies that we use and biases which are kind of ways in which were inclined to make ineffective decisions that can take all of that good information produce an ineffective decision so that hasn't been studied as much in visualization because it's a very common lex step in and of itself and in visualization you really have to account for all of the downstream processes like memory and you know pretension in all of.
Cognitive Science for Data Visualization with Lace Padilla
"I'm a cognitive scientist at the University of California said and I have a background in art I have an MFA design and I- fuse cognitive science with a little bit of art so what I'm interested in it's how the brain processes visual information and the way I like to do that is to look at data visualization how do data visualizations change how we think or feel or act in the world how can we make data visualizations better what are some techniques out there that currently need to be tested and more broadly how can we help people make high impact decisions with data visualizations is there training that we need to do is there ways to improve them some of the types of applications I've looked at our natural disaster forecasting like hurricanes and also uncertainty cognition for example making decisions about say procedure you might undergo something like that that's my broad broad background Super Interesting and it's traditionally a lot of data visualization researchers focused on low level perception like how well can be estimated area sizes or how good colors to encode certain types of information and the whole cognitive science angry I think is so interesting invaluable so can you tell us a bit cognitive science and and what we could learn from it as useful for visualization sure so cognitive sciences the study of the mind and there is a mind involved with data visualization there's always user hopeful ideally yes any time that you create a data visualization our goal is to provide to someone to help them due to some type of task or with some type of job so what we study in cognitive science is how people go about utilizing that type of information to help them with whatever it is they're doing and the way that cognitive science can help visualization researchers is a goose researchers a understanding of some the underlying processes that are work which could help you develop new visualizations it can help you iterating more quickly through your design process can help with testing as well to make sure that what you think people are doing with your visualizations is actually what they're doing and how they're interpreting it those are all really hard big questions that come science has been studying four hundred years really so it's a nice way of taking some usability questions in visualization and pulling some science from different fields to give you a foundation when you don't have to re study was topics that have been labored over for a long time that's really the benefit of of cognitive sciences I've been doing this for roughly a hundred years and we have a pretty good sense of how perception works I works and have a good sense of how how people's attention is attracted to different elements of official information and we have a good sense of how people learn information how they information for long term memory and on and these are all topics I mentioned briefly but there's thousands of researchers who've studied those in depth and all with those steps individually contribute to help people use visualizations seem like a daunting task to visuals Asian researchers to figure all of that out but I think with some guidance on some of the principles of how the mind functions any one can really integrate some cognitive science into the visualizations that they're making I think my sense is that related to what Mark was saying is that I always had this nagging feeling that we have we for many years we've been focusing on on low level perception but there is a whole world out they are that cognitive scientists have been studying and we we are not really aware of that and that that's one reason why I really like the type of work that you are doing because to me looks like it's one out on a somewhat different level and over the years I always had these as I said this nagging feeling the the this such a big gap between designers artists but then when you go to the science of it it's always this very very level and I don't WanNa say that it's not important relevant is is extremely useful but I always I always felt that there is something missing there it is true and frankly it's not a fault of anyone that's kind of the natural progression of science so the way got psychology hasn't folded historically as it started with low level perception just trying to identify what's going on with the eye with our senses so when we start applying what we learned cognitive science in psychology to new fields it's very reasonable reasonable place to start with the beginning of the process you imagine decision-making process it is a very Effective scientific approach to start with step one instead the balloon we move to step two and so on the issue is that it's all those steps are not easy to takes take time to figure them out so I think what has happened is there's just not a lot of cognitive scientists in working on visualization and doing the level research if there were I think it would advance a little bit more quickly I think what happens is the more interesting the thing to do is to create fancy nations rather than you know study though though why do people understand information way or should we make these visualizations and and I think that my approach does a little backwards so I started the end with how we make decisions and then kind of backtrack and say if this is what people actually do with this information how does that inform our theory about how they got here so if they had some air in there reasoning how can we figure out now that we know that there's an air where that air occurred in the process sort of like reverse engineering the whole the whole process of it and I started doing that because I think it's more interesting I wanna know what people do I want to help people make better decisions this today and so I start with decisions in work backwards but that was a a choice that I think other researchers may make different choices which are totally understandable I think one part of the challenge is it becomes intensity more quality attempt the type of research do probably it's so hard to count insides or to to say this decision was twice as big as the other one Kazeem area right Oh yeah yeah because if you have a longer process uncertainty can occur throughout the entire process than propagate through the system so few starting at the very end another soul much variability that might have happened it's hard to say this decision is produced by officials in this decision as produced by another visualization so the key to my research is that I do he controlled laboratory experiments to try to reduce some of that noise where possible and it's and it's not always possible it sometimes when you do told laboratory experiments you're you get so far away from the real types of decisions that people make it's not entirely informative but that is why you see the studies that do we have like three hundred participants in they do the exact same task hundred times where all we do is is change into one teeny tiny part of the visualization and that we test what happens Mitchell for that reason it's it can be really fuzzy at the end of the decision making process we're trying to eliminate some of that ended that scare researchers away as well because if you're looking at a low level phenomenon near looking at the neuronal level it's a little easier to identify what's making changes and we have to do experiments where we we're not up making big claims where we've solved the problem of uncertainty visualization what we do is many experiments where we simply provide evidence that this theory might the way people are understanding this information and death it's GonNa take you know many many experiments to build up lots of evidence to feel like we have right simply because you know it's a fuzzy process all the way at the end of of all those different processes in incision making
Rebooting AI: What's Missing and What's Next With Gary Marcus
"I am on the line with Gary. Marcus Gary is the CEO and founder at robust dot ai I also the a CEO and founder of the machine learning startup geometric intelligence which was acquired by Uber in two thousand sixteen. Gary is the author of five books including putting his latest rebooting ai which will be available on the day. This podcast is published Gary. Welcome to this week she learning and at thanks for having me I'm really excited to jump in and chat with you about this book. I had a chance to dig into it and awesome awesome booklets. Let's just jump in before we really dive into talking about the book. I'd love to explore a little bit about your background. You spent quite a bit of your career at and why you as a professor of psychology and neuroscience you tell us a little bit about your background and the perspective that this creates for you so I'm trained primarily as a cognitive scientists my research for many years and my PhD with St Thinker was all about how children learn language and and how children's start to understand the world so developmental cognitive scientist by training and at the same time I've been interested in is since I was about eight years old when I learned about programming computers and in the last seven years or so I've focused almost exclusively on answering the question what can cognitive science bring to. Ai I so a is currently dominated by certain statistical approaches that from my perspective as a cognitive scientist someone who studies how humans work seem a little weird to me so I don't think of children as giant data machines but the way that they I is kind of rolling right now. It's all about big data and I've been trying to see what I can contribute the two from the perspective of cognitive science so when you were when you create a geometric intelligence. Was that a company that really commercialized live cognitive science based approach or was there a statistical approach involved in your work their geometric intelligence which was my first company was inspired in some ways by cognitive science. It wasn't slavish to it. So there's always this tension of you know if you building airplanes you don't want to fly exactly like birds it 'cause that wouldn't make any sense who wants to flap their wings so many times a minute but you also want to understand something about the dynamics of flight in in my last company and also in this company were trying to take some lessons from biology in particular from how humans think and apply those to a problem so we're not in last company was not trying to be narrow scientifically perfectly accurate. We're not trying to be faithful to the brain. We're trying to take inspiration from the brain. The last company the broad problem that it was trying to address how do you learn from small amounts of data and that question itself in some ways comes from cognitive science. I think machine learning earning is catching up to it now in the last couple of years but it's always been clear from cognitive science especially from the field of language acquisition that learning from small data's the name of the game children can generalize from tiny amounts of examples. My dissertation was about how children learn the addy rule for forming the past tense which take sometimes use incorrectly they'll say goad or went to things like that. They learned that from a small amount of data sometimes they make mistakes over apply it but they don't have the gigabytes of data the way to save the GP tee system does now to the last company was really focused on one particular way a of solving this small data problem at our. I think most impressive results were we were beating deep learning in terms of data efficiency so we could learn things things with half as much data without having specific briars about the nature of the things. We're learning so we take 'em nist which is a benchmark. Probably a lot of your audience knows recognizing characters we could do amnesty have as much data without having to build in anything about the nature of letters or anything like that so we were working towards a general way of doing supervised learning. Maybe some other things using less data and we were inspired there by humans. We weren't necessarily doing it exactly the way humans do but I think the core intellectual property is something that is being Garan I developed and I sort of set a direction that was based on some things that made sense to me from a cognitive science perspective and Tuban been brilliant mathematician figured out how to apply it and so I think a lot of our listeners when they hear the idea of creating a unlimited data. We'll think about things like one shot. Learning zero shot learning but sounds like your approach was very different from these or was it. I mean there's some into relations and I can't say too much because Uber owns the IP and there's NDA's okay kind of stuff but I would say it. Zero shot learning in one shot learning first of all our names of problems. They're not names of techniques and people use different kinds of techniques to do them. They're often I think narrowly construed so there are lots of problems in the world where you have some data. It's not the zero data but you just don't have that much. It's something I often like to talk about is what my daughter did when she climbed through a chair so we were sitting in a whole foods about a year ago she was about four and a half years old or four years old at the time we sat in a chair that had a back in the gap between the back and the base of the chair if you can kind of visualize that and and she'd never seen the TV program the dukes of Hazzard with climb through the windows so she didn't have any data from like a model of doing wacky things sticking their bodies through an aperture inside of there so this was not a big data problem or at least there wasn't a lot of directly relevant big data. She had data about how her body worked the size of her body and she probably explored other apertures before she did what a lot of people might call at abstractly unsupervised supervised learning but he didn't use any of the techniques that we would call unsupervised learning so it was unsupervised in the sense that she didn't have training example saying this is the right you know. Torque to apply to your torso in order to spin through chair right in the way a reinforcement learning robot might try it a million sometimes and get reinforcement stuck this way it didn't get stuck that way and so forth she just did it in the space of like a minute and then the second time that she did. I I asked her to reenact it and I took pictures the second time I wish I had taken pictures the first time or taken video the second but anyway you look you look at this sequence of pictures that I took and she actually got stuck doc at one point and then she figured out how to get unstuck and so there was problem solving process there and it was also kind of leveraging modest amounts of data. She had no direct data on this problem except what she got from trying herself in that moment and then she had a bunch of background data from other kinds of problems that she had solved and she knew enough committee not consciously but unconsciously about physics and our body moved and so forth that you can integrate all of that so that doesn't fall into the paradigm of zero shot learning although you could sort sort of call it a zero shot problem but it's not like the things that people do in literature and it doesn't fall into the one shot learning and it doesn't really fit with how people think about unsupervised learning where they take take clusters of things or predict the next frames in the video. It's not really like any of those problems and yet it's kind of what little kids like. My children do all the time. They say here's some challenge that I have never confronted before. I'm going to figure it out. That's like eighty percent probably exaggerated but it's a large fraction of what my kids do is. They set new challenges right now. My son's a little older he's six and a half my daughter's five now. They like play Games all day long and they don't all play existing games. They play games that they invent until like well. Let's pretend you can't fly anymore because you broke your wing or whatever they're constantly making up assumptions and then doing problem salving relative to those reference points and that's just completely far away from what people are doing and they. I now part of the reason the Ernie Davis and I wrote this book rebooting. I I like reorient. The feel and reboot is like start over so we're doing great on all the supervised learning stuff where we have a ton of data ton of labeled data but but the reality is that's not really what the real world is like and it's certainly not like what children do as they come to understand the world and there's a gap right now between I I think memorizing doing something a little bit better than memorization and understanding so deep learning is like a better way of doing memorization you can Tripoli between examples. You've seen gene before but it's not really about comprehension. It's not really about building a model of chairs apertures and bodies and understanding how those interrelate into what earning an is trying to do is to get the field to look in different direction. That's more about comprehension and understanding and so forth did my going back to your question for second me did my last company. We do all of that. No I mean we were small startup. We were when we thought we were fifteen. People we at one very specific way of solving a supervised learning problem with less data. There's a lot that goes into human approach to less data another thing that goes into it that we didn't work on last compete at all is in eight nece so Chomsky's arguments which I think are correct is that we start with something that constrains how we learn language we don't. We're not open to any possible. I was reborn knowing certain things about language. I differ from him a little bit about what those things are but I would say we're probably born knowing that you can see candy. Symbols in order to express things is going in the right word or is it something you know as about the same conscious but I'll tell you about an experiment that I did which is probably not my best known result in psychology literature. I one of the two I taught seven kids in artificial language and I didn't tell them the rules as for the language it is give them examples two minutes and that
"cognitive science" Discussed on StarTalk Radio
"Of English and yet an affiliated faculty in cognitive science. Very cool. I've never heard of this field literary neuroscience like, what is that. It's a term that I came up with to describe my work. You have people hooked up to. MRI functional Emory, they read fiction, and then you watch what happens in their brain. Exactly. So the biggest surprise of the studies are was that instead of seeing activation in brain regions that are societas with reading and attention or seeing activation in regions far beyond this, we found widespread almost global activation for individuals, subjects which shifts depending on what people are paying attention to us. I read. And to some degree, maybe they shouldn't have been such a big surprise because reading a novel involves losing yourself in a fictional world, and these images aren't being provided for us like in film. So we have to create them for our selves. Oh, that's interesting. So, well, written story can activate parts of your brain that you are participant in in ways that if your imagination is not invoked, it's just not there right? And we can begin to actually truck these moments and the moments when people are actually getting caught by fiction and drawn in Merced. It's drawn into that right it in habit that fictional world, we'll Natalie thank you for being on star. Talk. Coming up. We'll take your questions about the science of storytelling. Next on star talking..
"cognitive science" Discussed on Packet Pushers - Datanauts
"Teaching guiding someone teaching is leading them through the failures with the solution kind of already teed up so that they can experience it in a less destructive fashion than if they had to recreate it on their own that's funny i when i would work with a junior engineers i i wouldn't tell steps all the time necessarily let's just ask a lot of questions all what are we trying to get done what we're trying to connect these two points what are the tools you have in your arsenal that would allow us to connect those two points at force them to try to think through it on their own so that hopefully when done they would own that process and information because they had to work their way through it with my guidance but they were hopefully getting there on their own and that's an excellent technique i socrates proved that really if you're you're going at it from the cognitive science direction what you're doing when you ask those questions is you're creating a problem and that's what our brains are good at giving a problem especially one with with sufficient impose in wait our brains kind of kick into a survival mode okay you're being chased by cheetah that's a problem what do you need to do and we can very quickly come up with an answer i need to run up a trait and so by asking that question you're you're setting up the cognitive quivalent of being chased by cheetah that's a thing i have to experience in solve now and my brain doesn't like to be in that unsolved position so it's going to start reaching out and grabbing other neurons that seem to make sense in that pattern there through that recall process going to get strengthened which is how we develop those skills so at an excellent technique is just kind of lead people through it and make them answer those questions diving back into a specific part of the book towards the end there's a good quote that you put out there on there's a lot of good and extremely valid business reasons for reviving the old apprentice slash master relationship in the workplace you talk about institutional memory and formal training resigned the job training that kind of jazz can you kind of tease that part of it.
"cognitive science" Discussed on Quirks and Quarks
"Last december bob mcdonald's spoke to a researcher who explained one reason why this was the case in the united states where a lot of the science on marijuana is being done researchers were studying the wrong drugs dr cinnamon bidwell had just written a study raising concerns about the important difference between lab pot and the commercial marijuana that most consumers by in hughes bob spoke with dr bedwell she's an assistant professor in the university of colorado boulders institute of cognitive science here's our conversation dr bidwell welcome to the program thank you what concerns you most about the state of marijuana research in the united states with regard to marijuana research even as academic researchers in a state where we have legalized recreational use legalized medical use of marijuana we are limited to studying marijuana that is available through the federal national institute on drug abuse in terms of the types of products and strains that they make available specifically for researchers to use in the labs so we are not allowed to touch administer or in any way can manipulate the products that are legally available for adults twenty one and over to access end use in our state will tell me about the marijuana that you are allowed to use in your love house a different from what should billable for people obliged even industry we know that the research marijuana is m much less potent compared to even just the average potencies that are available here in colorado typical strains can go up to thirty percent thc and we don't really know the impact of using strains that high on the brain on the developing brain boy thirty percent plus a long way from the fiber so you're dealing with.