10 Episode results for "Co Llc"
VP 189: Silence Wreck
"The the loss of loss of Veloce podcast loss of podcast. Hey sexy friend. He's making me his bitch. Maybe want to get a piece of that. Want to talk about sexy. Tease erections very creepy field. I can guarantee that underwear theft will come up again. None of this is relevant. Pokemon cokie balls seven hundred and fifty middle bottle of rum. Welcome to diversity. Podcast A study. This is your grumpy uncle. Pita he will say words at you. I have been playing a game on my phone. Game is called Castle wreck now. It's honestly a little difficult. Even call it a game. Because essentially you just shooting cannons at a castle. I've done about two hundred fifty castles and it hasn't gotten any harder and there's no real challenge to it but the appeal to me is. I just like watching the particle physics. I just like watching the bricks fall apart in the towers collapse and stuff so for me. It's not really a game with a challenge or anything like that. It's just cool to watch things explode. Which gives you really you know deep insight to my mentality and psychology. The interesting thing is that every fifth level there's a boss levels the exact same castle so far you get to attack it from slightly different angles. That's pretty much it but the king is in a tower in the middle. So if you hit that tower and the tower collapses you kill the king as a very satisfying for someone like me. Who's just awful human being but the game is actually based on what percentage of the castle you've destroyed so you don't actually most of the time have to destroy every single part of the castle to be successful like if you're looking at it you have to destroy seventy percent completely and that'll count as the castle being destroyed. I bet there's a lot of bass parts you couldn't actually like destroy properly so they had to take it down from a hundred percent true hundred percent down to something else thing. Is that means you can blow up all the walls of the boss. King's castle not kill the king and actually beat that level. Now I find that very very satisfying I feel that. Killing the king is imperative to the successful destruction of this castle. If you're not killing the king you have. It really destroyed the heart of the castle now. My son was watching me play castle wreck and he watched me do a boss fight and he wants this. Exact scenario playout said never happy. If I don't kill the king my son trying to be a good person. He looked at me and he said but at least he'll be sad and that warmed the empty cockles of my heart because yes the castles destroyed. The king has no protection and absolutely he will be bad in. Maybe that's even more of a win. Because he has to live with that feeling. I have been very busy lately. So we missed an engineer's Japan. We basically missed a second engineers Japan. I recorded one in the office. If you listen to that show you can hear that. The tone is very different because I mean in Echoey Room with Mike. Microphone and stuff but basically it's been hard to kind of keep up with running to shows and what I wanna do is actually spend a little more time writing the third show. I'm trying to create so I can get some headwind on that. Naxi maybe start recording some of that. That's going to relate to the next story that I'm going to talk about so right now. I'm considering making veloce. Podcast biweekly and maybe Ninja News Japan as well so I would alternate needs us. Japan veloce Podcast News. Japan Philosophy podcast. She'd still be getting weekly episodes but it would actually be about half as much work. I I'm just. This is kind of an update on just the state of the podcast. I was considering putting them back into one. Rss Feed so if you subscribe to Veloce gas you actually get one week would be veloce podcast and the next being engineers Japan and vice versa. I don't know it seems like more work than it's worth now. Because of already built both podcasts and I know that there are more people listening in engineers Japan right now and they probably are listening to that because they're not interested in Veloce podcast. The topics are very different. Or maybe just during the busy season so I have no desire to actually stop but I do have a desire as I've said every time I've done a state of the podcast WanNa make it better and the problem with me wanting to make this better is that it takes more time to make anything better some more planning more research More diversity in stories things like that. These are the problems but if I want to keep up ex amount of contents you have to actually sacrifice quality or depth or all the other things kind of go with it and actually do just want to produce more and more and more and more content. But I have to go to work every day. So the reason stuff didn't get made last week. I went on holiday for three days and then I worked eight nine days in a row with no day off and this is my first day off. It's not my normal day off trying to record two weeks in advance because next week is the emperor's birthday we're GONNA celebrate that by having a day off on Monday My kids are going to actually have school on Saturday and they get a makeup day off on Tuesday which is my day off so I'll be taking care of them so this is essentially any event that happens in my kid's life can impact whether or not I can record so that's just the reality of having a family. It ruins your ability to be successful in creative endeavor if you are connected to other human beings. Let's say that right now now the other project I want to work on. I've actually mentioned multiple times at the Jews adventure and then I read this story and it's choose co LLC. I didn't realize that choose. Your own. Adventure was really copywriting. Of course it is because those books are called. Choose your own adventure books. And I've always had a deep love for them that I guess title or John. Rhea is owned by choose co LLC and they are right now suing net flicks for twenty five million dollars in damages intrigue Mark and Trademark Infringement. That is because of the Netflix. Show part of the dark mirror series and I think it was called Bender snatch which I always say row. I always say like Bund. Anyway I say that word wrong. I probably will by the end of this story because they called it a choose your own adventure TV show choose co LLC is now able to sue them. And I think within the show now I didn't actually get a chance to watch it within the show. I think they actually pick up like a choose your own adventure style book in refer to it as a choose your adventure. And what they're saying. Is this connects that show to our brand so closely people would be confused as to the connection and it's almost tacit approval that the choose your own adventure within banner snatch is connected to Choose Co. Llc Netflix tried but didn't ultimately acquire the rights but then they made the movie anyway and they use the brand name. I didn't know that was a brand name. So that's actually my first problem so the question I run into is I wanted to call my podcast that I'm making a choose your own adventure podcast because of course that's what everyone understands and knows as a thing we're doing. I was maybe going to be smart and say called a choose your podcast but that is that actually confusing as to what the nature is. I've decided to not be as obtuse with my naming structures. I think Veloce podcast was the biggest mistake I've made with creating this podcast because it does nothing to help you understand what we're doing here And people can never remember the name when they searched for it or go to recommend it with friends. I've had more people go. Say Your podcast. You know the dinosaur one which means it's in there somewhere but they can't actually remember the name and so that's the first mistake I made with this Ninja News. Japan is pretty well branded. It's about Japan. It's about news the Ninja the Ninja part is relevant. But it's just there to sort of make sort of a a nice sounding name daily affirmations weekly the other podcast I have is fairly well-named so you can see I've learned from my mistake. I was tempted to rebrand this. Podcast THAT CHUNK MC beef chest podcast or the chunk MIC podcast. But again that's just as useless as veloce podcast. And these are all based off my Gamer tags and stuff like that from various xbox and playstation systems. But I'm running into a problem now so I I had a title for the show which is going to be. Maybe the name if it was a book but when you explain it to people. I want to be able to say it's a choose your own adventure. Podcast you'll go through an episode and there will be a choice at the end in that choice will be the next episode. You listen to not in order. That's very important. So making that concept clear at the beginning to me is vital. Because if you don't make that concept clear using simple terms people might start listening to it in order and then none of it makes sense. Now I don't expect to make any money off this. I haven't made much money off any of the projects I've made podcast wise. I do it for honestly just because I love making content but Mike Goal. My actual plan was to make this original one and if it got popular than I would put effort into writing a second one and try to monetize that because essentially you get one book for free and then you get a second book. Do you have to pay for people like the first one? They'd be more willing to pay for the second. That was my actual thinking. We are still talking years in the future but the concept of the choose your own adventure is the Lynch pin to the success of people. Actually listen to this thing properly and understanding what they're supposed to do and if I can't use choose your own adventure because I might get sued. The question is how do you come up with a phrase or explain it that simply so that people can understand because you could say? It's a multi choice narrative. I can come up with my own original term. It is a non linear user driven experience. It's episodic multifaceted podcasting. The fact of the matter is everyone already knows what to choose. Your own adventure is so that means you then don't have to explain the concept that heart so this lawsuit is something. I'm following closely. I don't again. I don't think anyone's GonNa be suing me for twenty five million dollars in damages. Because I'm not going to have twenty five million dollars so I mean I guess they could sue me for twenty five million dollars just the expectation that they actually would get. It is unlikely the interesting part to me would be I would say right away. Well why don't you just take all the profits from it? And then they find out the profits zero and it's like good leave me alone. They would still probably take money from me somehow. Ruin my life because I now feel like choose. Your own adventure guys might be a little bit evil. We're into companies protecting their intellectual property. Because they have to sue people to do that. They always come off as evil even if they're not they are just protecting themselves and they're protecting themselves from Netflix. Which is a much bigger entity in the world at this moment. So they're trying to make sure that Netflix doesn't just like bowl through and make your own shows again and again and again and ruin their and they lose sort of the value of their property. So it's been kind of a tough month for podcasting for me. I've just had a lot of work to do. And it looks like next month is GonNa be the same so I'm trying to get ahead of the curve right now but I'm actually thinking on into the future. How can I create more projects? How can they sustain what I've already made? How can I avoid getting sued for twenty five million dollars and honestly right now? I don't have the answer but just the same. I will make this promise to you. I will keep producing garbage content. That you care nothing about yet is somehow vaguely entertaining until the day. I die until a few weeks before I'd I assume I get sick. I if he's a sudden accident I can't really make that many promises for how long it's GonNa last but I don't want to sit here and talk about my own. Death now is turning out to be really bad day. This initially comes from read it which was then picked up by one of these other sites cheeseburger or something And then it gets sort of passed around the Internet so I found out. There's youtube videos where people just like read. Read it stories which seems really cheap to me but I guess that's something happens so let me read. This was about like psychological tricks. You can play another people in psychology. Something I'm always really interested so I actually read most of these and went back and read the original thread on Reddit. One of the silence. What the person says is. It's a very effective interview technique because as humans we are conditioned to break silences in conversations which is true. A lot of people are very uncomfortable silences. I work in Japan Japan. We have a lot of people join my company from the West and one of the things we often ended up explaining to them is that Japanese people are more comfortable with silences than you are. And of course everyone was. Oh no no. I'm really comfortable with silence. But of course they didn't wait for three seconds before they started talking because they're actually so uncomfortable with the idea of sitting there and silence for a while. Japan is a society. Japanese people are more willing to silently. Wait while someone thinks to answer and we have to train the people we work with to be like. You have to wait and don't just talk all the time that that people answer. I don't know if it's because I lived in Japan. I have a different personality. I have always been very comfortable with silences. One of the responses was very interesting. So this lost star twenty seventeen. I had a conversation with my former boss who was kind of a psychopath. He started by saying he needed. Ask me a question. Then he made a bunch of statements and then just stopped and was silent. I assumed his question was implied by the statement so I started to respond to the statements. He cut me off and chastised me for interrupting when he hadn't asked the question yet then he did the same thing. Several statements then silence than I start to talk and get yelled at. He did this three times before finally asking a question. I thought he was absolutely nuts later. I learned this technique people use to establish dominates. Now I have a similar experience except I don't think it was intentional so clearly. This story from Lost Star. Twenty seventeen is intentional. Boss was trying to be difficult. And establish dominance. I don't know if that's what was going to happen in the situation. I was in but the first thing is I was comfortable silence so why was in a meeting. There were multiple people and my immediate supervisor said to me I have a question and then made several statements and then stopped and that was it so since there was no question I didn't do it lost star. Did I sat in and there was a lot of waiting got very uncomfortable so everyone was waiting for something to happen so instead of speaking out of turn or trying to answer. I just said was that a question because he had made several statements but he hasn't actually asked a question so very similar to the situation. That's why this sort of sparked this memory now. The thing is at that point because the pause had been so long clearly he had finished speaking. Everyone in the room was waiting for a response. He couldn't turn around and say yes he had asked a question and I hadn't understood it because we all understood. There are no questions asked. If he'd been trying to assert dominance that has been undermined by the fact that I just pointed out he never actually asked a question and the actual result was the other people who are in. The meeting started laughing because I think primarily again from discomfort. They just been sitting through this long pause. They just seen something weird happen so they laughed to relieve some tension. If my boss in this situation was trying to establish dominance which people sort of instinctively do to me? I'm very confident guy. They all learned about the Judeo background. I kind of walk into rooms like owned the place but that gives people this idea like what I wanna do. Is I want to beat that guy. I want to put that guy down a notch. That's happened to me a lot in my life. The problem is it's usually ineffective because a lot of times I won't even notice I would recommend to everyone who listens to this podcast. Get comfortable with silence because the people who try to use silence against you. They tend to be impatient people. And if you can get to the point where you can comfortably wait longer than them. You will always ruin their plans. So if you're in a situation like this where your boss is trying to establish dominance so they say stuff and they get angry at you when you speak best. Be Back at them. The actually the only thing you can do you sit there in silence in weight. And I guarantee they'll give in a lot sooner than you think because they'll get frustrated that their technique isn't working the irony here is that you're listening to a podcast and one of the things. I do is cut out any extended silences because that wouldn't be a good podcast. The loss of the loss of loss. Podcast the loss of PODCASTS. Hey sexy friend. He's making me bitch. Thank you for listening. Leave a text to voice question or comment at Voice Link Dot FM slash veloce. Podcast you can find the podcast on night. Younes stitcher a cast or go to velizy Peter dot com slash. Podcast sexy at Hamas probably does.
Searching for Balance: How and Why We Work
"You have to kind of go in with open eyes and understand the the monumental task ahead of you that you're literally have been brainwashed and you have to be deprogrammed. Celeste headley journalist and author is talking to you and me and she's talking about the forces that keep us all grinding to the point where we feel like if we're not working. We should be ashamed of ourselves. That if we're not productive we're not valuable all right. I've been there. She's been there is good chance. You've been there yourself celeste. Experience led her to write a book called. Do nothing how to break away from overworking overdoing and under living now. Do nothing sounds enticing. Especially for those of us addicted to the grind culture. You know that guilt you feel the need to keep working just a little bit longer thinking that may be it will be better tomorrow. I mean scenario. When was that actually true. When you worked the extra two hours and then the next day was to our shorter ever never know. So why do we keep doing it before. The pandemic are workdays. Were already long and too often. They were getting longer the so-called forty hour work week for many of us was stretching to fifty sixty seventy hours. We were already in such an epidemic of burn out globally that the w. h. o. Had recognized burn out as a an actual health risk in a syndrome for a lot of us. Things just got worse this last year people working from home saw the edges of their workdays gets even blurrier parents trying to fit zoom calls and slack messages around naps virtual school and those sacred hours after bedtime frontline workers powering through their days after nights after days. Then there are those of us who lost jobs and had to turn to the gig economy with this unpredictable. Ncaab hours actually unpredictable. Everything to be honest. This past year has been hard but it has forced us to examine how we work. And why we've been doing it like this for so long. We're going through life. Like people watching a movie with a doritos bag and at some point it just becomes mindless to constantly get another dorito out of the bag and then you get up at the end and you're like oh why do i have a stomach ache on this episode of now. What's next at original podcast from morgan. Stanley we are going to put down the doritos bag. And we're taking stock of the forty hour workweek and turning the people who thought long and hard about making work more sustainable from personal shifts. And when i'm talking about how monumental this task is. That's what i'm talking about like this is reorienting your life cultural shifts. The made the bold announcement to the company. We're going to move to the four day workweek two shifts. That could change the whole economy. How do we use the economy to create for ourselves. Sustainability and ownership and empowerment. I was scenario glutton. Let's go to work. I found myself at some point so over scheduled so over committed and just so unhappy and sick so for me. It didn't start as a book. It was just me trying to figure out what was going on. And how i could solve it celeste. The author of do nothing hit breaking point after a speaking engagements. She just couldn't cancel even though she was very sick. I was just like gripped with fear that i would lose my voice that i would sleep through the gig. 'cause sleep very well when you have bronchitis and so i was just pouring whatever over the counter drugs. I could get into my body. Just try to get through the next day and give that speech. She did it but pushing through actually pushed her over the edge and on the plane ride home. She felt awful. I started thinking. Why like wh why is my life. Why did i set myself up. So that i can't take a sick day and that's when i realized i have to figure out what's going wrong so i started researching. How she got there and she quickly realized she wasn't alone so many of us have crazy. Work lives that are simply unsustainable. It would help if we pause for a moment to get into the way back machine and go back in time so we can understand where our collective ideas about the working week came from. It's important to remember that. Living in cities and suburbs is a relatively new phenomenon before the industrial revolution worked and survival were directly tied as workers left the farm to work in factories. Eighty to one hundred hour workweeks became the nor in eighteen. Seventeen manufacturer robert owen proposed breaking the day into three equal parts. Eight hours for work eight hours for play an eight hours for sleep over about one hundred years that idea too cold but slowly finally it was in one thousand nine hundred eighty six after last global pandemic after decades of fighting by labor activists that henry ford was eventually convinced that workers were more productive when they didn't work until the breaking point an eight hour workday allowed him to run three shifts in a manufacturing plant two shifts to make the cars one for maintenance and in one thousand nine hundred forty. Us congress standardized the forty hour. Work week that was essentially the end of the movement to short workout. Back to celeste. Who came to a point when she realized something had to change okay. This isn't sustainable. So i'm gonna quit my day job. And i'm gonna focus just on the writing and occasional journalism and i think i had this idea that a big part of the stress and overwork was because of my job or my boss and it wasn't because when i did that it got worse it got so much worse. Many of us cannot quit our day jobs. But many of us can relate to what made this situation worse for seles. Especially if you wanna fantasize about working from home and then you found yourself doing that during the pandemic only to realize that when you work from home you're not working from home you're living at work. Sound familiar cova. Took the work anywhere anytime. Ethos to a new annoying extreme. It just meant that works started to claim every single corner of lives. People would get tired of working at their dinner table or their desk and they'd get up and take their laptop out on the porch not realizing that what you're really doing is training brain to think. Oh the porch is also a place for doing work. I mean you can see. It's just led to a situation in which ray are never relaxed. Its my my example would be my nephew closing his work laptop and then opening his personal laptop. Yeah that's like a that's not a transition brother. Exactly exactly says we have to remember that technology is just a tool and if it's stressing you out that simply means you're using it rights user error what everybody hates to hear from their. It department right. It's just user error and you just have to fix the way that you're using it. Our brains have simply not evolved to allow us to in a healthy way. Have our hands on a tool. All day long celeste. Points out that our brains can't really distinguish between work and play when it comes to how we use our devices that means that slack. Sedova coup merge into one creating untouchable time away from work away from electronics. That goes a long way to relieving stress when you're doom scrolling for updates or just on instagram keeps you in sort of a heightened state flight or fight for me. I often go on long walks. And i try not to listen to anything or anyone. It's so great so glad that you said this pretty much everybody does or close to everyone can find five ten fifteen minutes and let those minutes untouchable and those are for you and you alone for no intrusions by as you say the news manmade sounds anything else. Let them simply be free from electronics. Just you and the world but time isn't going to solve a hall of our overtime problems for a lot of us working more sustainably which means not burning out means understanding the pressure. We're putting on ourselves. And why something. I kind of know firsthand. It was around my forty six. Th birthday that it was like oh i'm not an underachiever literally lake. You had thought before that that you were yes. My entire life and celeste camera late. Yeah i mean. I i feel you hard because you know. My grandfather was the dean of african american composers. He's like genius with a capital g. My great grandmother was born in slavery and then went on to have her life story. Read into the congressional record. So yeah i also was like i just. I just work a job. The idea that's west is getting to is that. We're not allowed to feel burnt out because our elders didn't have it is good or because we think that the work we're doing just isn't as meaningful or important and you know what honestly it was thinking about my family that helped me you forgive myself and also realize that i was doing it wrong because when i started reading like my grandfather's journals and stuff he did a lot of nothing now by nothing. She means he grew vegetables. He had hobbies. He did things other than work and was still extraordinarily successful. So what's going on with us. Celeste says it all goes back to what she said. At the start our culture makes us feel like we can't stop grind it. This is all working on our subconscious. That when you sit down and watch a movie or check your social media feeds or any of the other things that you do. You should feel guilty. This makes me think about children when my favorite questions to ask kids is what they want to be when they grow up. And you know what's funny. They almost always rhyme off some job. Like pilot dr astronaut. Here's an idea. What about being no happy. We need to really examine our goals because most of us are living by means goals and their means to an end. And we've lost sight of. What is that end. Is it to be happy. Is it to be healthy. Is it to have a loving family. And when i'm talking about how monumental this task is. That's what i'm talking about like this is reorienting your life reorienting. Our lives rethinking. How and when and why. We're working hours we do. Sometimes it takes a personal health crisis to start asking those questions. Sometimes it takes a harrowing national experience like nine eleven sometimes well seems like it takes a pandemic and a strange as it may sound the breaking point so many of us have reached working through this past year. That's exactly where seles finds the hope. I think globally and especially in the united states people are daily coming to that realization. I had in that plane. And they're thinking. Oh god i can't keep doing this. I can't keep doing this. I can't keep doing this. And that means that you either have to give into it. Which i hope nobody does or you have to think. How do i change my daily life so that this doesn't happen again no matter who you are what you do. You've likely asked yourself some version of that question. Over the last year and that personal question has led to a lot of difficult conversations row. Childcare family leave paid sick days and a new focus on mental wellness. All things we've talked about already in this podcast and yet most of us don't have control over our work hours and kansas clock off when we've had enough but as joe maria can attest that doesn't mean big sustainable work life. Changes are possible changes that can have an impact on a whole organization. Twenty fifteen joe. Maria started working. I h nordic danish digital marketing agency that charges clients by the hour. He was then the head of events and partner relations and when jomar learned about the company's goal to shift to a four day workweek every friday off without pain employees less or making them clock sixteen hour days on so this is crazy. You're an agency. We rely on billable hours as well. So i was to be. Honest is quite skeptical. I thought there's going to be some catch lay. So what was the catch. Catch was okay. He was the catch as a company. We had to figure out how to do it. Does that make sense. It makes sense if you know that. In denmark and other scandinavian countries. It's way more common for companies to have a so called flat structure. The student work can talk to the ceo and tell them what they think can be improved and that would be unheard of in other cultures in japan and possibly the us and stuff like that. But it's just it's just how it is so after. The head of the company made the decision to shift to a four day. Workweek jomar in his co workers identified three hundred and fifty problems that needed to be solved to respect goal and in order to solve them in. This is really important. The ceo gave them dedicated time so once a month they had tools down and what i would call that was innovation. Friday innovation. Friday amid declined. Wickham on stuff but you look at processes process improvement and you break up into different taskforce groups on that try and then you presented at the end of the day what you're gonna do and all that stuff. They discovered ways to shorten meetings and keep them focused which included sending an agenda with every invitation. If you received a meeting invited and it didn't have a clear agenda you have every right to reject that meeting and say please. And the ceo did this a couple of times. He sent it out to people and they rejected it to him. They said sorry. This does not fit the standards so we'd agreed upon and when you have short meetings. It's it's amazing how you are smarter about your time tackle distraction and interruption with the pomodoro works technique involves headphones twenty five minutes heimer and a red light to show others. You're focusing. now they discovered how essential it was that everyone in the company buy into this shifting culture. I had a collie who said he tried doing. The pomodoro method in his old job but people. It's tapping him on the shoulder. Even though he had a time of it wasn't the understanding. You just come up as a real a home as a person because you're doing something against the culture so it has to be accompanied shift culture wise and come from the top because of comes from the top than its gospel to everyone. Denmark already had and efficient work culture that was conducive to working smarter. Plus the process of figuring out how the do a four day workweek created exponential value because we made improvements where inflammation and what we were doing was more transparent across the company way understood what each other's challenges were. I think the strategy was it would help retain and keep good employees but also attract good talent. Reducing work hours was good for business and other companies are figuring that out as well. Last year microsoft japan released a report that productivity went up forty percent when they shortened their workweek. The spanish government recently announced a trial that support companies across the country in reducing working hours as a means to among other things increase their productivity sweden found that nurses benefited mentally and physically and perform better when they worked less hours. So what's stopping it from becoming a thing that side as well labor economists. I talked to say it'll take a lot more data to sway most companies. But many point to something. Celeste talked about we value. Work itself not as a means to an end but as an end in and of itself. That mentality really took hold after world war two but as the boomers retire in jin's ears flood the workplace will their reputation for wanting more work life balance create lasting change. In the meantime we can look at companies like h to see what is possible over the course of two years their innovation. Fridays went from monthly to weekly and then they were eliminated altogether a four day workweek with the same pave same benefits. Same twenty five days vacation. God loved embark without working extra hours. Monday through thursday. Then the question becomes. What do you do with free friday. I think in some ways my wife was the best beneficiary of the four-day work-week. Because i had this nice little list of things to do which i was happy to do meant that we had a clear run for the weekend a three day weekend every week but still. Let's think about what you lose when you prioritize efficiency some of the solutions like the pomodoro sprints had an unexpected effect. His sound level did go down in office and it was something that as a group. We quickly realized that okay. People aren't laughing as much so it did I i think in the music times. It's like it's a compressor. It eliminates the highs and eliminates the lows. Bring the last back. They made a lot of extra. Social stuff happened in a really deliberate way. Like weekly bar thursdays lucky lunches where you ate with a random colleague and for me i have no reason to say this was a great thing or whatever but i really think it's something that companies should look at seriously and use some of the statistics that are available now. Having done this experiment as for jomar he moved on to start his own company. I do not work a four day workweek for anyone who's ever done their own business. You know you live and breathe that you love it but what is good is. I still do expense. I adjusted my g mail. Calendar to undo twenty minutes and forty minute meetings. You know so. I'm taking with me a lot of the things that i've led a we will 'cause it was also we had the level of empowerment and autonomy as employees and it's not every company. Ceo that's going to give up their power to the people right and that's not going to happen overnight. Giving power to the people we know that may not happen overnight but times are changing especially this past year. Some employers are experimenting with better conditions and benefits but elsewhere more and more workers are fighting for more sustainable and safer work over. The pandemic people stayed at home and ordered in the apps. People lost jobs and look for flexible. Easily accessible work via apps and gig work exploded. But this kind of work has. Its own set of challenges. I'm jennifer scott and mckeag worker and deliver food and groceries on my bike for apps. Like uber eats enjoyed ash in fidora. And i am president of gig. Workers united fighting for workers rights. Jennifer has been a bike courier in toronto for over four years and rode many miles before becoming an organizer but one thing that has stayed consistent. Well there is no consistency. I think about you know what it means to like. Have a forty hour workweek and have weekends off. That sounds kind of like a dream. Because i never know how long i'm gonna be out working. I never know if. I'm gonna spend my weekend trying to make up for the rest of this week like a lot of people come to get work. Jennifer had a fulltime job before but she more money by delivery with something. She knew she could start right away and she recalls one of her first shifts sitting on her bike ready to go but no orders. Come in not and i remember like i. I still do this now. Is there something wrong with my phone. My phone get shut off. And i just i remember sitting at this intersection and it's hot and i'm thinking about how i will make up this money that i'm not making for this ended up being an hour and a half later just sat there waiting for an order and there there was just there was nothing i could do to make one come eventually. Jennifer lost her time job so she turned to the part time job. She already had food delivery. She found ways to make the system work better for her but still after years it's unpredictable even on a good day and so if i go out in the morning on a day and i say okay. I'm going to work for six hours today. And it ends up being busy and consistent. Then i'll stay out from maybe ton. Because i can't guarantee that it will be busy and consistent tomorrow or next week but it is today and so i should keep working and that's where things get a little bit scary scary because she'll push past her physical limit to make as much money as possible that day and all that uncertainty has an impact on other parts of her life as well. It can result in precarious access to food or precarious housing. Because you know no matter how hard you try. Not guaranteed income. And you don't quite know what it's going to be before you earn it. Remember celeste hadley. When her work life became unsustainable she may changes to control it. Workers in jennifer's position though don't have that option and yet is the very promise of flexibility that makes gig work attractive flexible immigrants to the gig. Economy is such an interesting word is the word that apps always used and the idea of what that means is what draws us to this work. But you know we learn that. The flexibility that we experience is really how flexible we are to work within the confines of one it is lucrative to work. And so you know foot working full-time gig worker can honestly mean clocking between fifty and eighty hours a week and when you're working eighty hours a week i mean like that's not great for you. It's actually really horrible. But it was The sort of promise of opportunity that prefer for jennifer and many other gig workers. It's more than the promise of money that keeps her going. Jennifer remembers a recent delivery that stands out and i can see this woman standing on the porch and she has three children who all seem to be under the age of six and they are just like so excited to see me and also she looks very tired and run out to me. And they're like do you have our burgers to have my milkshake like yes they do. There's so much joy. In that moment. I feel great making these kids feel happy and they're so excited like i want to enjoy that. She sees her work as a necessity for the office. Workers who start at five. Am and get a hot breakfast delivered for people who are genuinely homebound. In fact during the pandemic many places designated by couriers as essential workers and there is a feeling of pride in supporting your community and the knowledge that delivery work like this is a form of care work and so i think a lot of the reason that we stay in this industry is because we think that it is meaningful and we think if there were some changes to how it works it would be a good job in february of two thousand twenty jennifer and other by couriers who worked for the fedora. App won a precedent setting case. At the provincial labor relations sport it ruled that couriers by jennifer. Were not independent contractors. They were dependent contractors more like employees than freelancers that ruling opened up the possibility for canadian gig workers to join a union setting the stage for their us counterparts. Now if they wanted to careers could work together to bargain with apps for better working conditions and they wanted to incredibly. It's eighty nine point six percent in favor of a union. That's a feet. That's a huge percentage of people voting in one way the day that we found out. That workers voted. Yes for this union. Fidora had already declared bankruptcy and actually had already exited the country it was a bittersweet moment for jennifer and her fellow organizers but then they saw an opportunity and so not long after i i left in the summer and we had a few general meetings where we talked about like. What if we were to build a co-op what would that look like. Workers co ops have been around for a lot longer than the forty hour workweek. The idea here is workers own. The business the co-op jennifer is helping. The bill would partner directly with restaurants and retailers without the use of the big apps their main aim is to provide a livable wage and it predictable sustainable way of making a living. Now co ops are popular in food service healthcare. Even the tech world co ops are a very new thing for gig workers. Yeah so today where we are restaurant startup phase. We're not able to employ a hundred carriers fulltime but that's the job of the co op and the worker owners will party. In addition to the food stores united co op. jennifer is leading gig workers united. That's toronto union. For all at base careers now. Is that just couriers. Unionizing in canada and the us workers have been organizing industries previously not known to be union friendly in january more than six hundred google employees in the us voted to unionize while workers at an alabama amazon plant voted against a union. In april after a protracted and very expensive campaign and a recent gallup poll shows the highest support for unions in the us in almost twenty years at sixty five percent in that we we stand at a precipice of change for labor rights for workers. Are we going to maintain the same standards that we have or improve on them or are we going to see ourselves. Go back to you know. Maybe what work was like in the early nineteen hundreds think of the decades though centuries that workers pushed to shorten work hours in the first place jennifer sees her work as an extension of that movement. I think and i believe that is true. A number of people will become organizers. Will become community. Leaders will become folks who helped to bring change to our society and they will be people. Hugh started as bike couriers car couriers in a gig economy. And i just. I think that that's very exciting. Future as far as the future but workweek goes. I do think there has been an awakening. If there is a slight silver lining and awakening that has led us to rethink the hours. Were putting in and why and an awakening that has led us to consider better work alternatives. That are already working elsewhere. And it's a good feeling to look back and seeing that in some ways how we changed the working culture in the world. I think so an awakening among workers who want sustainable and safer jobs. We're sort of envisioning a way to change the trajectory of the quality of our lives significantly so the pandemic help get us here and it's up to us to work towards what's next the last thing i will say. If there's anything. I wish would die and burn in the fire pits of hell. It's the phrase rising grind. I mean think about that people. Come on seriously. Think about it people. This has been now. What's next and original. Podcast morgan stanley. On our next episode the surprising ways the pandemic could affect the way we care for our elderly. I'm scenario clinton off the clock. Thanks for listening.
Caring for Our Elders
"Hello i'm scenario clinton. I've been thinking a lot about this conversation. I listened in on recently. Beat lauren right and her father. Willie right thirty degrees. I'm thirty three. I am getting older. And i'm having to do adult things. Like talk to my father about him getting older and being his. What's it called catty. I'm here power of attorney s and that's that's all you everything. Is you so as to reality of living as it. Were you know we have to be prepared to leave. We have to prepare to die. Listen i know this sounds like a dark way to start a show but let's face it. We're a year plus into a pandemic that has been deadly for elderly folks. We're all thinking about how we ourselves will spend our senior years. And if we're lucky we're having conversations just like this with love humor and a bit of francs. I told you can't die. And i will. This is a weekly conversation for lauren. And willie right. It's a conversation that feels more urgent because of the pandemic right. now willie loves living in cleveland. God bless him where he's a program manager for the national caucus in center on black aging. But he's getting older. He lives alone far from lauren. And he has diabetes. He thinks about his future every single day. I don't wanna be in anybody's nursing hall thing that's just not my. I saw not an option like and you're also not like ninety but eventually that will be ninety god willing and but what does that look like for me. What is what is what is seventy five. What is eighty look like. What does that look like for me. Baby boomers like willie right are redefining. What the golden years can look like or lease. They're trying they're going to live longer. That could also mean. They're living with more health complications. Like dementia the pandemic has forced us to reckon with how we treat in value our elders and the people who care for them. So how can we make that care better if we tackle that. Now what could seventy five eighty or fingers crossed ninety. Look like for willie right for our parents or even for us. He's just like a beacon of light. When you have that program. Like i spent on debbie get through high can finally get her in a place. That has a private room where she does have some dignity and respect. I'm scenario clinton and this is now what's next an original podcast from morgan stanley. Now let's get started okay. So this is a picture an my mom. We got awarded this award when we close the bakery. Like from the state. Saying you know it was iris. Yfu so taguchi is showing me. Some of her family photos all of us with the representative of our city. Her father opened the larry's bakery a honolulu institution in nineteen fifty seven her mother irene. You fuso ran it for decades. After he died she would get up to thirty in the morning. Go to work. Get the bakery all setup and at seven o'clock she would come home and pick me up and bring me back to the bakery and feed me my favorite pastry which was a butter horn. Fresh couple orange juice which i had every day for at least fifteen years of my life. And that's why. I look the way i look now but she did that. And then after i ate iris's mom blended two fulltime jobs into one single mother and business owner and a tool club. Do it all over again. You don't get a sense at any flower landed on her described as like moving the whole all day long right right exactly but a few years ago. things changed. Irish remembers the day. She realized the tables had turned. She had cut her foot at the bakery side. Took her to the er and i found out she didn't have insurance health insurance. It was last three four months back because she forgot to pay for it. That is when i found out something was wrong. Checks galore to publisher's clearing house ginsu knives gave money to the dolphins. The whales whatever and no money was all gone now. That's a moment. all of her. Mom's savings were gone now. That discovery led to irene's alzheimer's diagnosis and in two thousand seventeen. Iris and her brother decided to close down the bakery so iris could become her mom's full-time caregiver and keep her at home. Now the benefits of aging at home are huge. I mean it's home it's familiar. You can be independent but close to love ones not to mention. There's less of a chance of catching viruses. Overall people live better when they age in place. Well so why is it so hard to do. First of all it may be cheaper than a nursing home but aging in place comes with a cost a cost. That's usually carried by women like iris. In the beginning. People are like be careful caregiver burnout. I've been there. And i'm they caregiver. Burn out on. Never get to that. You know i'll never let that happen. Well that thing is real man. It's like i'm at caregiver burnout for real. And then risk got some help in twenty. Eighteen hawaii launch the groundbreaking kupuna caregivers program. It gives working family caregivers. Money financial support up to seventy dollars a day towards services that help keep an elderly person at home and that could mean hiring visiting care. Worker someone to help with cleaning or cooking or sending a loved one to daycare waiting. He's we need is aerial. Iris finds a bit of relief by sending her mom to a senior daycare center. You can hear irene playing a game with a small child of a daycare worker. Iris was nervous about taking her but day. One went a lot better than expected. She's like hey there's my friend she would righted. She started coloring with a friend. And i was at. I tell you it was like i want the megabucks. Iris's mother loves it but daycare also cost mega megabucks bucks iris. Inter family didn't have social security. Checks barely cover. The cost of medicine diapers personal items. I was dipping into her own dwindling savings now. Unpaid family caregivers can expect to spend nearly twenty percent of their overall income looking after a loved one they may need to also bring in home carries. Install safety equipment. And if they don't have family leave they may lose or give up their own jobs and deplete their own retirement funds figuring out how to pay for all of it takes time and a lot of energy now without capuna care. I was doesn't know how he would cope behind that. I already don't have. I would not have. I would need that eight day in the week. You just like a beacon of light when you have that program by any program. Kupuna care is not perfect. they're waiting lists and the program itself is subject to state budgets and yearly renewal. But it points to shift to support values that are part of hawaiian culture values. We could embrace in hawaiian capuna translates roughly to grandparent or ancestor. But it comes from two words that put together meaning the source of our existence. in hawaii. there are a lot of kupuna in hawaii. Collared for silver. We are silvery drive. Still exercise still teaching their young ones language. Or you you know. They're just on the easy. While hawaii's experiencing silver wave the whole world is preparing for a silver sue nami. They're currently seven hundred fifty million seniors in the world. By twenty thirty. There will be over a billion and more and more of them want to stay in their homes or with their families by giving caregivers money to support that desire. The capuna care program actually saves the government in health care and nursing home costs. I s iris. If given all the stress and exhaustion if she ever considered putting her mother in the nursing home no no no. I want to keep her home safe. Especially at corona virus. But i wanna keep her here as long as i can. So she's happy. I'm happy i'm happy when she's gone. I will have no regrets. And when she's gone. I can sleep all. I want work all i want. I probably be old but you know travel but for right now this is what's important to me in my life did make you those pacers. When you're a kid he did a lot more than just that you know. He did so much for all of us. So best. The best thing i can do. I mean yes. That's the best thing i can do. We all need to figure out the best thing we can do. But what if there were more programs like capuna care to give us better options as much as we might like the idea of aging at home. It's not going to work out for everyone for some of us a nursing home. Maybe our final destination over the last year. The prospect became a lot less appealing to a lot of people. So what can we do to make these facilities safer and more invited so i'm really so I lived in new rochelle new york. And i worked as a registered nurse at the hebrew. Hopefully each is one of the biggest nursing homes in new york city and despite the unprecedented challenges in the last year rudy gets into the elevator at work every day and pumps themselves up so that when the doors opened on his floor. He's got his game face on. I'm there were skates ready to go. You know so they give a report letting me know what's going on the floors on quarantine somebody's started. Id glove cultures if they gotta get swabs. So it's like is exciting at the same time on. I'm like pump ready to go. You gotta be. I can't go in there feeling depressed and feeling. Oh my god. How am i going to do this. I go in there with suzy. Everyday day with the best. I can do. Even in the middle of a pandemic even the middle of the pandemic and this pandemic has been pretty brutal for rudy in early spring last year he caught cove it from one of his residents one of the fifty residents in his care at any one time. I just had a face mask on. And when i gave him the medication she spit it. Back out onto my face and i could feel going into my eyes and i was like kind of scared at the time win. Washed it out this route. She died at the hospital couple of days later. I i really don't get sick. I started literally getting like one hundred and three. Fever thousand chills. I was reading for like three days. It was kind of hard for the and agreed to. My mom also got sick. She works in a healthcare field and she was sick for like maybe three months. I was trying to help her out with different things. My uncle contracted it he died. She's i'm sorry for your loss. Yeah so i mean and then my patients also you develop relationships. I had at least at least ten. I can remember that passed away. So i've been working woman twenty four years. It's going to be twenty four years now. I'm maybe we'll look at you. You don't look like you've been working anywhere for twenty years. What can i ask. How old are you yeah. I'm forty forty one next week. So he's seen a lot in those twenty four years and you might think with all he's seen in this past year alone rudy. Wouldn't want his own loved ones in a nursing home. Well think again his mother and his aunts care for his grandmother and he's watched the toll it's taken on them and it's very difficult or what the nursing home. You have a lot of different resources. You have the doctors the nurses during the aids. There you know you have physical therapy. This food. their desire titians. There's a lot of different services that we provide for residents and it takes the burden off the families. You know so i. I don't see a nursing home as a bad thing. I see as community but rudy often struggled especially over the pandemic to give his community of seniors. The care he felt they deserved even pre. Kobe would happen every so often that you'll be having one nurse for fifty patients. I'm telling you during this time right now. Recently last week was three or four days. I was working by myself with fifty patients with four. Cna's and difficult let that sink in. How much can one registered nurse and four certified nursing assistants or cna's do for fifty patients will crying out that we need more staff because we have more hands on deck were able to tackle the heart situation. Here's one thing that could make it easier. This past spring the new york state legislature passed the safe staffing bill. It requires homes to have enough staff to make sure each resident gets at least three and a half hours of one on one care each day plus the state cap the prophets for nursing homes. Which means they'll have to spend a least seventy percents of their revenue on caring for residents and forty percent of that on staffing. It's hoped that these changes will improve the quality of care for residents and working conditions for caregivers like rudy. But these changes won't solve the problems of low wages or shortage of workers. A recent study found that nearly three quarters of homes had difficulty finding enough staff to cover shifts but rudy is more committed than he's ever been there to take care of these people who've been through their lives ready already to like this is like there's sunset they're like you know. I don't think you can just like sometimes abandoned ship. I'm the union delegate. So i'm there for my residents and my coworkers are are you. Are you hopeful. I wouldn't be here. I wasn't hopeful. That's why i'm sticking around. I i don't know maybe i'm too optimistic or too much enthusiasm but that's how i live my whole life anyway. So if you wanna change the sunset years as rudy likes to call them then we have to value the people who care for the elderly. They've been essential to getting through this crisis and while rudy and his union advocated for better conditions for his residence and co workers. There's another revolution happening. The nursing home and caregiver industry is beginning a huge thing of the facilities themselves. Now if you close your eyes and imagine your standard nursing home you probably see something that looks like a hospital floor long hallways rooms with two or more people in them. A nursing station medical carts in wheelchairs. Iv's modern nursing homes resemble hospitals. Because well they grew out of hospitals after world. War two the. Us government shifted funding away from welfare homes for the elderly to facilities that gave medical care to the elderly. Now many of those facilities were built and managed by hospitals and when medicare arrived in the us in nineteen sixty five seniors with low incomes. Got money to pay for long term care homes. Then by the nineteen seventies the number of us nursing homes had more than doubled while there have been efforts to tighten regulations and improve the nursing. Home industry not much has changed in the last fifty years that is until a global pandemic encouraged us. So look around and see if there's a better way of doing things hello sylvia. How're you doing fine. thank you scenario. How are you today. i'm all right. I was Well i i. I have to say i'm sorry for your loss Well thank you very much. Sylvia's mother we bay mendoza died. In february she was ninety one years old and survived. Cancer had dementia and diabetes but sylvia literally beans when she talks about her mother as a young woman. She kind of looked like live taylor instead of the purple. Is she had green. Is she would wear her little gloves. In the early fifties and sixties and as she became older she'll always matching pantsuits. In fact one of the instructions she had for the funeral directors a little rouge a little pink lipstick part my hair to the side so i kind of look like maybe lana turner in the early years. Kind of sexy like so. That was my mom always concerned with all right now to be clear. This isn't a story about the death of lupe mendoza. This is a story about how her only child sylvia found a nursing home. That helped her live out her days happily as possible. In fact sylvia mendosa was following her. Mother's own instructions. My dad became very ill and he was homebound for ten years and during that time she was his primary care provider and i would come in and provide respite but she then said you know if i ever need help. Don't keep me at home because our relationship will be really strange. You're gonna hate me at that point in time. Find me a knife nursing home. At that time came. after sylvia's mom had a bad fall and had to stay in the hospital. The doctors recommended a nursing home with a rehab facility and she stayed there for five months but sylvia knew that it was not a good fit. She was sharing a room with three other people and really was not getting the attention or the care that she deserved and needed. I show up to visit with her and she'd be in the same clothes three days in a row and i'd asked pass. She'd been changed while she doesn't want to now. Sylvia started looking for alternatives. And she didn't like what she saw. I'll spare you the gory details. You've heard about them all before. Sylvia though was on the hunt for something much much better. But i was looking for was. Does the staff treat the people under their care. The same way they would treat a family member. Sylvia found what she was looking for in a greenhouse fan love mexican food and we would host taco night on one of our lovely outdoor patio and just enjoyed it ending and a good company israel. Every year sylvia would organize a large party for lupus. Date everything from food and drinks to alive mariachi band. Who would come in play for everyone including armenia to enjoy rosemary. Sperry is one of the nursing assistants. Who care for sylvia's mom during her last years at the evergreen villas their unique part of mount san antonio gardens a large retirement and nursing facility in pomona california now. Sylvia was thrilled when her mother moved to the top of their waiting lists only louis hike can finally get her in a place. That has a private room where she does have some dignity and respect. The evergreen villas are part of the greenhouse project a nonprofit organization dedicated to humanizing the nursing home experience. Now they do that by making smaller facilities that look and feel like home. No long hallways. Nursing stations private rooms private showers a big fireplace and a bright comfy living room and a kitchen that everyone can use one day when she was lucid. Said she said. Is this kind of how a college dorm is like. I said yes. You have that atmosphere where everybody is together. And you get to enjoy each other's company you get interact and do different things. That's how it's different. It's more family almost collegial. The greenhouse staffing model helps with that family feeling on a day shift the registered nurse like rudy would have to take care of no more than twenty four residents. You'd have the help of four nursing assistance of those lower ratios make everyone happier and healthier and during the first four months of the pandemic ninety five percent of greenhouse homes reported zero cases of in nineteen among residents stat. There are currently around three hundred greenhouses around america. But with those numbers you can certainly expect to see more now. This kind of care is not cheap about forty five percent of greenhouse residents qualified for medicaid. But not lupe yeah. We did have to refinance her home to help. Defray some of the cost so yes it is expensive but when you have a loved one who has given so much of their time in love and money to educate you and make sure you have the best in their waning here if you wanna make sure that you do something for them as well and that was her money and i decided to use it on her. Sylvia has no regrets. Not only was she able to keep working at a job she loves. I was able to maintain the relationship as her daughter for her care provider in fact sylvia's taken out long-term care insurance for self and started saving money so if she needs it in the future she can stay at a place like the evergreen villas and seeing her mom happy they're meant the world to sylvia as did the tribute. Her mother received from the caregivers the day she died. They had got my mom ready and they put on her blush. Shan't her lipstick like she had wanted. And as they were wheeling her out one of the women turned on her phone and started playing mariachi music. All of the staff came out and lined the driveway and they were singing. She was the queen latina like our psyche. She was the queen of the house here and they pay tribute to her by playing one of her favorite songs as she left. Who was very touched that this is what it looks like. When we value our elders sylvia was able to make the best choice for herself and her mother just like. Irene and iris fu so taguchi made a different but equally good choice in hawaii because well they had good options options that were grounded in a positive perspective on old age. The problems facing nursing homes are very complex. And we've only looked at a few of the possible ways forward but after what we've seen and learned through the pandemic. Are we ready to start making changes. We make solutions like the greenhouses more accessible and affordable we invested more staff. Will we expand capuna caregivers support. I'm hoping we answer some of these questions. For willie and lauren right. The father daughter duo from the beginning of the story. Which i love you iraq. I know i love you too and we'll make the right decisions will make burke not going to be the babysitter though. I don't. I'm not expecting you to be a babysitter. We always find ways of making it work. But here's the thing. Can we find ways of making it better on the next episode. Speaking of babysitters we find out if the pandemic has been enough to create positive change around actual daycare making it better more affordable and accessible. I'm sitting honoring clinton and this has been now. What's next and original. Podcast from morgan stanley. Thank you for listening.
The Re-Education of Higher Learning
"So i packed one travel sized suitcase and i got on a plane. I was the only person on the plane. And i flew home from chicago and a soon as i landed. Wield my suitcase into my parents house. I realized this is real. This is something bigger than a little break from school. That's jacob sarasin. I'm currently twenty. One years old. And i go to school at arden's to chicago or at least he did when classes. I went online last spring. Jacob and his friends were thinking. Let's just get through this month. We can all handle it and we'll figure it out and the next year it'll be it'll be different but it wasn't a weakened zoom classes in september and he began to weighs options. I thought that i could do something else with my time. That's more valuable. It wasn't worth paying that much money to take classes that i felt were subpar not because of the professors or the students or the content but because of the delivery so the idea of you stopping school in my mind was lake kind of crazy because i think of all the angst and anxiety and i had about you choosing your damn school like you should know jacob's mom is a very good friend of mine and he's kinda like family and you get into the frigate art institute of chicago and now you like this not interesting. I'm going to go do something else. So what did you decide to do. I decided to take a course to become an emt which is a little different from art. School i will say a little different a little different. But i wanna be clear. Jacob left in-person art school because he felt it was too dangerous to be in classrooms during the pandemic then. He decided to become an emergency medical technician. You wanted to learn. It just didn't wanna do it over a computer screen. I'm doing cpr. For the first time. Or i'm trying to help out on a patient that was pulled from a vehicle in emergency room now. Those are lessons that you definitely won't get an art school studio. There's those moments. Where i'm i'm sweating and stressing out but it's never a yearning to go back. It's just a broad understanding of how privileged. I am just expanding landscape of of how i see things. I have to admit it is hard for me not to admire that choice. We all know that college can lead to great things better. Earning potential a longer healthier. Your wife even having healthier children then of course there's learning for the sake of learning the intellectual and spiritual growth. That happens college. It can make us better people and better citizens but when the pandemic pushed college into a long pause it made way for big questions and new insights that could change how we think about higher education for good from how we teach. I acknowledged my own personal vulnerability in ways that i never would have done in class before to the rewards of living on a college campus. Those are life skills negotiating a bathroom and you share it with sixteen other women you know if you can figure that one now you can probably close the biggest deal ever in business to the deeply held beliefs about what it takes to succeed. The first thing that comes to my head is that people lie to me. I'm scenario clinton and on this episode of now. What's next and original podcast from morgan stanley. We're looking to get school on higher education. These are good questions because these are things that people are really grappling with right now. That will take continue being an emt or willie go back to school. Well we'll find out about that later in the show. One thing is certain. Jacob is not going back to zoom classes. I don't blame them. But would you have stayed if he could have gone to an online course. That made him feel something like this. I would be engaged energized. When i imagine international law just imagine like a bunch of happy students. I just think of like having this motivation to learn but also the positive energy. That's like so hard to get across on zoom. That's bushra shake. She's a long way from her home and family and kashmir. She's finishing a very strange senior year at georgetown university in washington. Dc now the course bush was talking about international law is taught by dr elizabeth grim. I've taught it for many years. Many different semesters many different situations. And i thought that he'd been working really well. If i had not had the forcing mechanism of covid to change the class. I would not have changed the class in the way that i did that. The top of course last fall when the long term reality of the pandemic really started to set in. I think all of us at the beginning of march went into it sang artwork. We've got this. We're tackling this and that sort of adrenaline. Very much had evaporated. I think by. August twenty twenty and given rise to frustration and given rise to loneliness now. That's summer instructors. At georgetown got training in online teaching and every training session we received this guidance. Of just a you know students. Attention span on. Zoom is eight minutes long now as she sat through those zoom classes. Dr grim had to think about how her own lectures that clocked about fifty minutes with translate in this new world. I spent the whole summer basically about an hour two hours every day. Reworking the lectures into about ten or fifteen minute videos. Because let's be honest. I mean unless beyond records a fifteen minute video. I'm not going to watch a fifty minute video and so not gonna ask my students to do that either. Writing recording and editing video lectures was an easy at. I would say as we're recording this. I'm looking at my paper. Planners my multiple colored posted notes and colored pens. I mean i'm very much. A child of the eighteen eighties as far as technology is concerned but dr grim realized that teaching online during a pandemic was about much more ben the course material. Georgetown university said jesuit university and so one of the things that that means that at the core of our mission at the core of what it means to be a georgetown. Is this concept called share personal- so that means caring for the whole person. Taking into account their individual stories individual needs i was educated by the jesuits by self and the tradition is that who the graduate is graduating is as important as any skill set and i think in the old world for me what would be important as both the grasping of the details of the law and facts in various key tenants in two weeks and also the ability to critically analyze st precautions. But in this new world. I think for me the emphasis on empathy. The emphasis on humanity became even more important. I would say almost if equivalent importance to simply just the course material so butcher came to dr. Graham's international law class in september twenty twenty it felt and look different. While for starters dr graham split the class of fifty students into two smaller groups so they would be both fewer faces on those zooms and then she sent out short video lectures and readings in advance. And then when we came to class on wednesday. Then we'd get straight into it you know we'd we'd hop on talk a little bit about how are week was going and then we'd dive into the material and then you know everybody has something to say so we spend a lot more time analyzing than just taking down notes and into dr grim. The difference was stunning. It is hard for me. To even put into words. The depth of engagement and the richness of conversations. It was categorically different. But it wasn't just because her students had watched her bite-sized in advance. Now remember when bushra mentioned we'd hop on talk a little bit about. How are we going and will. That was part of dr grimm's larger designed to keep her class feeling. Happy and connected. There's such an importance of the sound of a classroom and so i wanted to replicate that so we would hop on we would even talk about mundane things about what they did over the weekend things. Like what are they have for breakfast What we're crazy things your pets did. This is really important. Professor grim doubled down outside of her lectures. She hosted online times happy hours. They're a chat rooms for grad students and pure beatings for undergrads. She checked in with each student directly and even held weekly. Asked me anything sessions and everything from. Oh gosh i feel like. I picked the wrong major. And it's too late to change now to. Should i get a pet cat stuff like that. Professor grahame who lives on campus with her husband. Three kids and a dog croutons even offered her students. The option of meeting for socially distance walks. You would schedule a time usually early in the morning. And then you kind of go on this forty five minutes fifteen minute walk to surround the neighborhood talking about everything from our life stories. Her story just an environment. That doesn't feel like a pressure cooker. The pressure cooker pandemic chains professor. Grahame too. I acknowledged my own personal vulnerability in ways that i never would have done in class before. I should note throughout the entire fall semester. I was in a high risk pregnancy. And i contracted cove in november. And i would have never shared details like that with students in class before but i wanted them to know that they are not alone and that sense of fear and confusion that they felt about their own families and their own communities was a sense. If in confusion that. I felt as well and i think that helped them gain a greater comfort. A greater understanding and a willingness to take risks in ways that. I don't know that they would have taken in a brick and mortar classroom. It was a hard class. Did challenge us but it was so worth it. I like to tell people that was kind of my highlight of last semester And one of the best. I've taken at georgetown. It didn't feel like assume but what happens in classes. don't have to be on zoom anymore. Dr graham says the ti- times the book clubs and the dog walks are going to continue and possibly videotape lectures as well but our big lesson from the pandemic was recognizing that empathy and humanity and vulnerability ancillary to the teaching and education process there central to the teaching education process. And i i think. I recognized that at a sort of base-level before but this experience really embedded those lessons for me. Both as a professor as a mother and someone who cares very very deeply about her students at her community. Now if we are lucky we all have at least a few teachers like professor grim for me. It was summoned. Newton cotes may she rest in peace and in the best possible scenario. We find a program or maybe an institution. That's a good fit for us. One that meets our needs socially academically and financially. But trust me. That is a lot to ask. Students have to think really hard. About what kind of higher education experience. What actually serve them best. Now it took was shana lewis a very long time and a lot of determination to find the right fit for her even though she found her calling when she was only eight years old. So i i got my hands on a commodore sixty four. That was used in john from one of my mom's family rents and it. It really started getting interested in electric's general and computers specifically and then. That's when i was told about how people go to college for these kinds of things will. Shana grew up in east. Saint louis and her mother had her at fifteen. The shana was the type of kid that in fifth grade. She had already won her first scholarship for years. She knew more about computers than teachers. She got accepted to all the colleges. She applied to and a recruiter convinced her to choose a college in northern michigan. That was well aware that this was supposed to be the gateway for me to not be poor anymore not to be in the projects anymore. College was her ticket out. That's what they told her but when she had trouble with coursework and asked instructors and classmates for help. She kept hearing things like this. Maybe you shouldn't do this major at all and at the time. I didn't know what implicit bias was. So i didn't know that at the time they were saying that because i was black because i was a black female trying to be something that was stereotypically white male. But that's pretty much has classmates lasana. The only black woman in her program was at a loss and she turned to counseling where she was told. This is what discrimination as and. That's what you're going through. And i had to do all of this learning. I'm what seventeen eighteen nineteen years old Away from home for a long time for the first time. And i had to figure all this out and then finally talking to my counselor. And she's like you're out of money. You are stressed out. You're going through discrimination. You need to possibly considered leaving. So i did. How did that moment feel for you. Leaving college Our felt like giving up. I felt like i failed. Lake if you could paint a scarlet f. on the front of my closer on my forehead. That's what like even though you had been in school and one black girl in the computer science program. I mean even after the therapist tells you. Hey look this is what discrimination. You still felt like you had failed and not you know your teachers or desist. Found me yeah. My mom was actually very supportive of because she knew how depressing this would be for me but from within my community was like. Oh you're leaving. you're never going back. You're just going to be a dropout. The spider strong skills and three and a half years of college as well as experienced doing an office internship without a degree. Las shauna kinville get an. It job what she could get a job driving high school students to an after school tutoring program. She somehow managed to turn that into tutoring and then eventually with a lot of work a job at a different college as the it helpdesk manager. And i i kinda got the same spill again. You know you are really good at what you do but unfortunately you don't have a bachelor's degree so you can't move up certain ranks so i said you know what. Let me sit down. Take some courses. The shauna was back at college. This time in saint louis sixteen years after she left six credits short of graduating shanas. Instructors noticed her skills immediately and told her to apply to a new apprenticeship program called launched code. It did not take long before she got noticed. There's this facilitators like winking you start and i'm like start. What susan witkin you start your apprenticeship program to be a systems engineer at mastercard and i was like what are you talking about. Just two months after leshan started as an apprentice at mastercard. They her a fulltime job. Seven years later shawna is now the director of it at give and the ceo of her own consulting firm. Her experience her that traditional college is definitely not the best fit forever. I would be remiss to kind of still send people collar down a path that could end up in financial ruin for some when there are other viable. pass that. I with launch code. I paid zero dollars. And i didn't pay anything apprenticeship actually paid me. I was paid at that time. What fifteen dollars an hour. Which ironically was more than the job that i had left and i was a manager at that job now for her. The apprenticeship program was life changing in more ways than one. Let me wrap up with just the example of one person A woman named lana lewis in twenty fifteen president. Barack obama invited leshan to washington for the launch of tech hire a talent initiative that built on the success of launch coat and as she sat in the audience he suddenly called her by name worzel shauna. She's here today. There's a shot points me out in audience. And i stand up in the whole entire room like ranches and looks at me. I blink out. Because i was just like everything is kind of a slow motion so we got to create more stories. Like la- shops the tech hire initiative was all about pipelines helping people like shannon get pass barriers them out of the tech industry. Now companies like google apple. Npr ibm no longer require all applicants to have degrees especially protect jobs. Kind of going through that whole entire process. The first thing that comes to my head is that people to me. They lied to me about all of these things that they need. And the type of person that i needed to be in order to to get to this level you know and it made me feel sad you know still kind of tear up at this point to say twenty years of just going through all of this and what i knew was actually more than what i needed to know to do. The job that i was doing these days. Shopping sits incredibly important to share her story with kids. And when i tell kids the story. And i tell them. The obama story. I say i get. They're using traditional ways because we need to let people know what our stories are. So i tell them whatever you're doing as long as you've taken the time to think about it and explore options i say to keep going when you think of how much leshan had to push through to keep going. You gotta wonder about all the people who were chess-like her who did who couldn't or who were told not to have to think about. Also how much we all lost and yet the us still lags behind when it comes to earn and learn programs like the one that launched leshan but there is some hope after winning bipartisan support in the house of representatives the national apprenticeship. Act the twenty twenty. One is now working. Its way through the senate. Now if passes that means three and a half billion dollars would go to creating one million new apprenticeship opportunities the pause on this academic year as given a lot of students and their parents who pay that tuition that time to take louisiana's advice and explore other. Maybe better options. But what about colleges. What have they learned about higher education this year. Take me on the quad for crazy. Spring day you know that you know that i bring on a college campus. Yeah yeah so. I suspect you see you know some group of students coming back and forth from the library which is right across from the quad. They'll be another group of students will be coming out of the students success center because they've been in tutoring or they've been in advising they'll be another group now we have bluetooth speakers on the yard somewhere doing waddell now. The group somewhere. Don't wanna frisbee the wobble but we have this to while we have to come party on the yard come on did not go to choir college staff while a new version of the electric slap on electric five. That's dr brenda allen. She's president of lincoln university in chester county. Pennsylvania is a public historically black university. Where all the students in normal times live on campus. Now dr allen taught at yale and smith she started in administration at brown university. She wanted to bring what she learned in. The ivy leagues back to lincoln her alma mater. I'm telling you i loved it here. I loved every bit about it. And again i tell. My students mini the skills. I use today in this job. That i have. I began to hone those skills on this campus. Planning balancing work in school. Listening doctor allen. I can't help but wonder how things might have been different for lassana if she had gone to a black college. What really matters. I think is how a student feels on campus. And i think it's also what they may need both personally and professionally so it historically black colleges one of the things that really important about this environment is that it's a very supportive environment. And i think that's consistent across most hughes now. Let's face it when it's the right fit a college. Campus can be transformative if not downright magical but during the pandemic well. It's been empty and that quiet has given us time to look at what's working. And what isn't i. Want to find out what doctor allen learned from this past year and how she saw the experience of college changing she says skill specific training like what lassana had has its value but for dr allen the real value of college in person not virtual is that it introduces you to ideas and whole possibilities. You could never have considered. I don't think you can take the place of for example. A student just wandering through our student success building seeing a sign the talked about study abroad and just wandering in and the next thing you know. They're spending the summer in ghana or in egypt or in ireland or something like that. The is serendipity sort of things that can happen. I think in a real environment is harder to do that in the virtual world. I mean i really wonder about this because you don't with the move to remote learning in some ways doesn't open up the question. About how much of that serendipitous experience do i need to. I need four years of it. S so again. I think that there are some people who will make the choice. In can thrive in a partial environment. Are you know do some years online. Do some years on campus on people do community calls i and save money. And then transfer and finish their baccalaureate degree at a four year college and for many habit for years on campus can be the most transformative experience that they can have also was a statistician for a while. And i look at this. From the perspective of data and that the online environment is the same but disproportionate. Numbers of african americans have gone to online schools and the graduation rates. The completion rates for them is just not as great. You know what. I can't help thinking about that. I keep thinking about the students and graduates all over america carrying a crushing one point seven trillion with a t dollars in student debt. A number that goes up every single semester and some of those students. Just like with sean. That end up with debt but no degree now. No one felt good about paying full or even discounted tuition for zoom courses over the last year but any signs that a year of remote learning is making colleges rethink the return on investment. They're offering not counting scholarships and financial aid a new student at georgetown. The private university. Where dr graham teaches will pay around seventy five thousand dollars for a year of tuition room and board and a year at lincoln a public university so full cost of attendance. Tuition fees. Room and board is about twenty two thousand dollars so in the scheme of things. We're still pretty affordable but but then you think about it though every night. Twenty two thousand dollars saying deputy. That's a lot of money. Well you know it's really. It's really about the total experience. These are good questions because these are things that people are really grappling with right now. So surely you can probably deliver education much more cost effectively if you do it. Virtually but it's really not the same. And i think as a residential campus. We offer a special experience that really our data shows helps individuals to go on and become very productive citizens so lincoln university for example is number one in pennsylvania for moving students from the lowest socioeconomic level to the highest they graduate and are able to be employed and earn at the highest socioeconomic ladder. That's social mobility mobility transformation belonging employment. There are no easy answers when it comes to evaluating the impact of college or a higher education on the quality of our lives is there. Of course. I should have asked you now that you were hard. You're pushing me. So you know i appreciate that. I think walking away really still committed to my about the importance. But you got me thinking about some other things that i need to consider this as well so i appreciate that growing reconsidering our ideas. These are all things that are supposed to happen in and around college but they happen off campus as well. remember jacob. My friend's son who opted to step away from online college to become an emt. Well he's going back. I think post pandemic life for me is ideally. It's you're finishing school. But i think it comes with all these experiences and understanding that this little bubble that i've existed in that i want to go back to is so small compared to all of the whole world the irony of that is knowing you a bit. I feel like it's leaving school for you to grow up. You're like a grown ass man. Now i think so. I think so and for me there are so many things that college teaches me that i could learn anywhere else but college is a very small part of learning how to be an adult and how to be ready for a world where you're not a student that's called growing up but i wasn't supposed to grow up i had i had another year this another year of not growing up and here we are and here we are. The pandemic has forced a lot of us to grow up and adapt regardless of how old we are. It's also taught us a lot about higher education. We saw during all this that some colleges and universities even ones with long histories and traditions. They can adapt and some can even do it quickly. And perhaps they will take the lessons that they learned over the pandemic and make higher education even more accessible more connected to the needs and dreams of this disrupt the generation of students and those still to come for their sake and for our sake. I really hope they do. I'm scenario clinton and this has been now. What's next and original podcast from morgan stanley on the next episode. Working nine to five how we got the forty hour workweek and why it is not working for us. Thank you for listening thing.
Revaluing the Essential Work of Childcare
"Sometimes i feel like i can't do it anymore or i'm overwhelmed and i feel like it's just too much. My husband has an essential job so he was outside working all the time. I mean i cannot tell you the number of times that i called him crying and then i get to the point where sometimes i do break down and cry in privacy. You my own room. Because i was like. I don't know if i could do this. This is so insane. Sunny mcdaniel and sierra mall are two of the working moms on our show today. Sorry really loud right now julie. Cashman is an expert on women and the economy and she's the third. Why does it take having women in the legislature to get movement on an issue as important as childcare. They sorry. Can i just tell them to be quiet for one second okay. I'll be right back there. Good that that's the sound of a long simmering crisis bursting in on my zoom call. When the pandemic put the world on pause and send many of us home into our screens it became a lot harder to ignore. Just how impossible. It is to be a working. Mom so five o'clock is about when our morning starts. I get up about five o'clock in the morning. I started obsessing about this question of work and parenting. When i was a senior in college. I'll hear my son and he's one of the twins and i'll go pick him up. Argued them up. I feed them breakfast. I want to do all these things and have a family. What am i supposed to do like a circus teeth. Fresh hair comb clothes on shoes on dog means back in dog means back out the three and four year old. We actually need to go catch a shuttle bus from our complex to the metro station. As soon as i draw kids off. I either have three minutes of quiet myself or an immediately jumping on a call and then rolling into work women and families have been figuring this out on their own project kids and it's just not the way it should be for sonya sierra julie and countless other moms figuring this out only got worse a lot worse actually during the pandemic too many women have left jobs to care for their families too many parents. And let's be honest. we mean too. Many mothers have reached a breaking point. How are we going to solve that in. How are we going to take this moment and turn it into that pivotal moment for change instead of continue the crisis on this season finale of now. What's next and original podcast for morgan stanley. That's what we want to find out will the devastation of the pandemic. bring the relief. Parents have so long for will create awareness and force change. I'm scenario glenn. Asking has the pandemic finally made us care about childcare. When the pandemic actually i started and the daycare closed down. I had no idea what i was gonna do. So you mcdaniel is a single mom of four daughters ages three four fourteen and her eldest she was nineteen at the time and she was actually staying with my mother supporting her with her recovery from her massive stroke that she had so she actually took on taking care of my two and three year old at the time as well as the thirteen year old so that i can continue to work. Sonia is a supervisor at a hospital in falls church virginia between covert patients and taking buses to get to work son. You're worried about getting her own. Children sick her two youngest starts have asthma so she sent him to stay with her mom. And her eldest. They ended up only seen each other over screens for months. Oh i missed him so much Seeing their faces especially the little wines they. They miss their mom. They miss hugging me. And kissing me. And i miss hugging on them. It was a light is very trying. And i really thought that i was going to have to eventually quit my job in order to be there for my family. Sunny was certainly not alone now. The great recession of two thousand eight was what many economists call a man session. The job losses during this pandemic were the opposite. And what we've been calling a. She's session then. That means that more than two million american women have left the workforce many of them to care for their families. And it's not just the jobs lost it's the reversal of decades and decades of progress. Many women who are now out of work were in hospitality restaurants and hotels and importantly childcare industries that were disproportionately employing women of color. Industries that have been decimated by the pandemic reviving. Those industries is going to be really hard now. If you're a black mother you're twice as likely to have left the labor force as you're white counterparts and you're more than two times as likely to be bus sole breadwinner in your household like sonia even so she considered leaving her job to care for family during the pandemic wonder like kept her working. My kids my my thirteen year old and my nineteen year old at the time Told me that they wanted me to be able to continue to work in. That they would help as much as possible. And that everything will be okay. And they knew how many years i put into my current job and they know how much i enjoy and appreciate my job and they know that. I didn't want to have to give up my job. But i was willing to form our family with encouragement from her children. Sonia had to make a way out of no way like so many generations of women because the united states has not built at comprehensive child kern early learning system since world war. Two people have been figuring it out on their own for a very long time. That is julie cash. And she's the director of women's economic justice at the century foundation and black women have been figuring out for longer because there was a real push that white women should be home with their children and the state home mom movement and that was not the same push as a result of structural racism for black women and so black woman have been figuring this out a very long time coming up with creative solutions relying on family and friends but the reality is this is a problem for all of us and we can create collective solutions. You know. I've been thinking about how my mom came up with those collective solutions in my own life. I was a child of a single mother who worked in a car plant and her friends pooled their resources and us. Kids were babysat by a generation of gramma mama. Willa and mrs billingham were in their seventies. When i was a kid and i miss them every day now. Think of how the pandemic cut off those connections sons daycare eventually reopened to essential workers like herself but was shorter hours for all the extra cleaning. That was needed. Sonya had to start in her workday early but not everyone has that flexibility and some women left the workforce. Because of that very reason. I have no idea what would do without this day care. This daycare allows me to be able to work and also they do such a wonderful job with my kids. It's like a family to them and it's like a family to me. I want us all to just take a moment to think about the phrase essential worker. Where do the kids of essential workers go when their parents go to work daycare. Staff the essential workers behind many many essential workers. Make my. let's wait for it on average trail dollars an hour. Julie cash has been a lot of time trying to fix this problem. Those working in early education staffing trial care are some of the lowest paid. He ball in the workforce. There's rarely benefits that go with these jobs. And it's actually the sector. Where if you get a master's degree you make less money than any other master's degree so this is completely undervalued. There are so many people who bring love to these jobs but you cannot pay the rent with love boy. I wish you could but you cannot pay the rent with love. Women make up ninety five percent of the daycare. Workforce and forty percent of those women are black and latina thousands of daycare. Centers have shut down since the start of the pandemic and the ones that have stayed open while they're struggling to pay for the disinfecting costs wild dealing with lower attendance even with the low wages of childcare workers good quality daycare is not cheap. A year of daycare can cost upwards of eleven thousand dollars per child. It is a huge issue. And i actually go through the county or assistance and it helps out a lie. It goes by your income. If i did not get that assistance through the county. Might kids wouldn't even be able to go to this day care center and then what was sonia. A working single mother do. Many parents are watching at this moment to see what happens with president. Joe biden's proposed one point eight trillion dollar american families plan it would fund education paid family leave and childcare. Now it's still has to go through congress but it calls for a system where low and middle income families with paid no more than seven percent of their income for daycare for kids under five it would also raise wages and provide training for childcare workers now congress is gonna do what congress is gonna do but this announcement signals a huge shift for wealthy country. The us is way behind when it comes to women in the workforce and it is not good for anyone. Here's a number for you. Fifty seven billion dollars. One study found that. That's what the. Us economy is losing every year because of the lack of reliable childcare options. I asked you if she thinks. This is a hopeful moment for mothers especially women of color a deal. I think that you know you have janelle jones as the economist at the department of labor who coined the phrase black women best. Which is this concept that if black women are doing well everyone's gonna be doing better until sonia is just going to have to keep going. I don't know how i'm still standing. It's just you know my kids are. What motivates me they. Just keep me moving forward and keep me pushing and i don't think about it. I just do it for sonya and so many working mothers. There's no alternative. But has women fall out of the workforce to care for their families and struggled a balanced jobs and childcare. More and more companies are feeling the impact and are beginning to step. sierra mall. is the customer service and sales manager at trust automation now. That's an engineering company in california. She has a five year old and one and a half year old twins. My husband and i laugh about it. Because i always wanted three children but i think he really was like too good when they looked at the ultrasound for pregnancy number two and saw twins. He left mad angry and he was like. I'm the happiest scared. I've ever been one of the things that made life with three very little kids a lot. Less scary was knowing that they had affordable daycare provided by sierras employer. Honestly i would not be in the workforce. I would not have gone to work if i didn't have on site childcare but for a long time. Sierra never thought that she'd be a working mom at all so my mom stayed home with us when we were up until five years old kindergarten age and then she went back to work and even when she was back at work. I never felt the stress or the chaos or any of that because she managed it so well and so i think in my head i had this Very dreamlike idea of staying home with the kids and all the arts and crafts projects and just very peaceful home. And that's kind of what i pictured. Then what changed. I ended up realizing. I loved working. And i loved what i was doing. I had a hard time picturing stopping my job. I love that that is part of who Identity but also didn't want to have a pause my career. Because i knew how difficult that would be in five to ten years to try to get back into the workforce but when i got pregnant with my first daughter i i had to think really hard about it because i didn't understand The struggles of child carrying general sierra encountered. What a lot of soon be parents find when they start looking for childcare well not enough daycare facilities years long waiting lists and high cost but as an employee you trust automation. She had priority and a discount on daycare at her office. This idea has been floating around or decades. But it's still relatively rare. What made it happen at sierras workplace. The owners are a husband and wife and they had young children and they always hired nannies to beyond site with them so that they could be close. They had their own little classroom setup their own little sandbox area and all that stuff so i think because they had gone through it themselves they knew the value and providing that for their employees now that value works in a lot of different ways it means. Mother's like sierra. don't leave their jobs and employers. don't have to hire and train new people. It also means. I felt like i could really focus all of my energy on what was right in front of me and i felt like i was a better employee. Because ultimately that's the struggle of a working parent right so you're either a great employee and not being your best parents off or you're being a great parent and work is kind of on the back burner. I don't wanna be that person that's cutting someone off oop. Sorry go do pick up. Or i'm on a very important phone call and my kids are crying in the background. I don't wanna be person. But i can also recognize and i think in some ways. The pandemic is really brought this too late. Where that's real. I mean that is normalizing parenthood because in the stand age most of us are working and to pretend like we don't have children is so fake. And i don't wanna be that person and i want to work for a company and i want to work with people who who have knowledge that and respect that knowledge and respecting that creates a culture. That's good for everyone as we just heard in our previous episode on the future of elder care more and more people are going to be taking care of their parents or other relatives. Work is not everything right. it's important. But i also have this other life and i think that if you have an employer that can respect that and understand that we are all happier because we feel seen feeling scene and supported is one thing but there is also a bottom line. Reason companies like trust automation. Google and patagonia have offered family friendly policies like on site childcare for years. We're talking more than five times more revenue growth and that's thanks to innovation talent retention and higher productivity and the pandemic has made more companies. Wake up to the benefits of helping out working parents not just because they're losing employees but also because many men in charge who haven't had to think about childcare this deeply before well now they can't avoided in their homes and on their work. Zoom calls in. I think they did take on more than they had before they saw more than they have before julie cash and has seen this play out in government as well there is a hearing on child care recently in the senate help committee and senator. Burr said something really interesting so he's a republican ranking member on the committee and he said you know when i was a dad wasn't really engaged in this but now that in a grandfather i really understand why childcare so important Some employers are starting to offer longer parental leave backup. Childcare help online tutoring support for kids. Who are still learning at home and monthly stipend to help with grocery delivery and other services and some two hundred companies including google spotify and others have signed onto the newly founded care economy business council. And that's a coalition that's pushing for better caregiving policies. That would help women get back to work and while onsite daycare helped sierra get back to her job she realizes that providing childcare is really tough for many employers they are constantly dealing with state licensing. They are running a company but also running another company. That has a whole different set of rules completely different. Set of personnel. Not easy but it is worth it. I think if you value your employees enough then you can push through anything that might companies are really great example of doing solutions like this are just one of the ways to help. Women get back into the workforce and make careers easier for parents. Julie cash has spent her career. You're trying to figure this out. And she's been pushing for decades. Now she finally has hope oh I started obsessing about this question of work and parenting. When i was a senior in college. What wise up. I hit been going along working toward a great career. High impact career as a political science. Major thinking i would go work in politics and sort of realized that my mom had been estate home mom and i kind of always thought that that would be my path as well and had this a ha moment where i realized i couldn't do both and so i as a policy major in an idealistic twenty one year olds have great. I'm gonna figure this out. I'm gonna solve this through public policy before i in all my friends have as my plan sounds like a college student. I will solve this problem for the world and myself before intend years before or in the next two years before. I have the chat exactly as the plan not long. After her aha moment julie packed up. Her life drove to washington. Dc and got a job on capitol hill writing letters for the lake congresswoman. Louise slaughter over. The past two decades julie has become an expert on work family and caregiving and julie feels like the pandemic is finally. Make us pay attention right outside my door. Now count soon. I'm sorry wing covert. i hit julian. Her husband scrambled just like the rest of us. They eventually created a pod with other families and hired a tutor to help her son and three other first graders through the months of online school. Julia says she's lucky. She can afford to set up a pod but she knows it wasn't a simple in every home. The stress of it for me has been really having wanted to solve this for everyone for my entire career and having it below up the way it did to feel this pressure of. Wow there are nurses on the front lines. There are people working at pharmacies on the front lines and they don't have a solution for childcare remote learning. And how are we going to solve that in. How are we going to take this moment and turn it into that pivotal moment for change instead of continue the crisis for julie. This last horrible year has a silver lining. I feel like what we got to see was just how much of a house of cards. We've all built things on right. That making it work means that every family has one paycheck away. One health emergency away. One car breaking down away from complete economic instability. And at the same time. We don't have child care system. We don't have an elder care system. We don't have the infrastructure for all of it and so we think what the pandemic did was it just revealed how precarious all of it has been. We did in fact have a childcare system wants in the us during world war two. The government realized that if it was gonna make rosie a riveter they have to figure out who was going to look after rosie's kids so the government gave grants to community groups to run nursery schools and daycares for the war effort. Ben we're fighting the war. They needed someone to work so they actually wanted women to work therefore they created the system so that women could go to the factories that rosie the riveter could be out there making weapons. Basically what you're saying is within the society and the government valued women working. It addressed the problem. I think that is what i am saying. Yes but when the war ended so did publicly funded childcare then along came the nineteen fifties images of the happy housewife that were sold really pro actively sold advertising as this is the right thing and then you also had pop science and kind of junk science telling you about the only way that you can successfully raise a child that the mom is there right. So we've internalized all of these different pieces and we continued get conflicting messages about it where women do feel the sense of responsibility in the sense of guilt over. Not figuring it out in for not being able to do it. All in the early nineteen seventies when women were entering the work force. Congress passed the bill that would have funded childcare across america. Fifty years ago in december president. Nixon vetoed the comprehensive child development. Act and that is the last time we came this close to having a comprehensive childcare and early learning system now the birth rate is the lowest been in forty years and it is not hard to imagine why part of the reason people aren't having kids because they heard the story. They know how hard it is to do. All the things that they need to be able to work and have a family and they're they're not having it but they might reconsider. If childcare wasn't such an obstacle. It's the scaffolding that holds everything else up. It's just that it's been invisible for so long. We need to have a childcare structure. That's what enables there to be productivity. That's what enables people to hold jobs and show up every day for work and when it comes to scaffolding and stimulating the economy julie sees caregiving as an infrastructure investment. You can't build out the important infrastructure we need. You know roads bridges broadband if workers are worried about their families and so the economy is really about making sure that from the time a child is born until the time that you are in your older years or that your aging or l. That there is support for you and to that we need that care system so that women and parents could equally participate in building the roads and bridges and broadband. So i think it's kind of all comes back together. That way has this. Pandemic pushed us to a breaking point where something has to give something has to give doesn't it. We can build a fighter jet and also a submarine but we can't seem to do that and children's issues or social services or human services issues. But i cannot leave on that note. Because i am an optimism. I don't think we're gonna sprints went up. Julie does not think that we'll screw this up. But even as people and corporations are waking up to the importance of the care economy so much depends on every sector including government coming together to create a childcare system that everyone can use. So what's going to happen with this real moment of well one of the things we've learned in this series and over the pandemic there are so many opportunities to do better when we think about. What's next can we imagine a world where well i don't know you don't have to remortgage your entire house to care for your elderly parent pay for childcare. Heck i can imagine a shopping mall. That didn't look exactly like every shopping mall from glendale to augusta college. What about that. That prepares us for work and life without soul crushing debt. If baseball is better. Jackie robinson than. It's a fact that movies are better with michael jordan and bongino. It's not like we did know that these things were broken but the pandemic gave us this flashing technicolor reminder. You know all those we loud kids zoom that he does it have to be this way. This experience has changed. It has to have an but how and how much how are we using this opportunity to do better. We spent this season looking for green shoots those signs of positive change and at the end of it. I am a bit more optimistic. And i hope you are as well. I'm sitting clinton and this has been now. What's next an original podcast for morgan stanley. It was brought to you by producer. Miriam johnson sound designer. Mark angrily executive producer. Chris boyce and two working mothers. Of course show runner tori allen and writer. Sarah me and circle.
Episode 635 How To Turn The Sour Grapes Of 2020 Into Fine Wine In 2021 with A.M. Williams
"Everyone agrees bacon. Makes everything better even marketing. This is the vacant podcasts. You'll learn to cure your marketing. Victor internet marketing online marketing. Social media. tips intact now to help you bring more bacon hall. Master marketing sizzle ryan basilica. This is the bacon podcast. Welcome everybody. I'm your host. Brian basilica in. This is the podcast. Where you learn to make your business sizzle online. So are you ready to fry up some new business. Hey peeps. I am excited. I have a true inspirational message for you guys today. And we're gonna be talking about the guy his his and we're going to be talking with a dude. His name is a m williams and today's topic is going to be had a crush yourself from vine to wine. So 'em how you doing great being with you today. It's awesome having on man so really. I like to get people to know your backstory. So we're gonna be talking about had a crush yourself from vine to wine but really this story kind of begins with your spine right to have that happen. What's up well. When i was twenty eight years old. Brian i had an amazing Banking financial career And i was. I was doing pretty whale man. I was one of the top sales leaders in the organization and Let's say life was sweet. Okay then life handed me a card and said you got cyst on your spine and if we don't do something you could be dead in ten days. So i literally had a decision i had to make to either allow them to take the cyst out of mice fine Or they say. If i left it in that it would. It could burst in getting my blood system. Bloodstream and kill me instantly so Needless to say i went with the operation. The other part about it was that they could be cancerous. And i was like. Oh my god. I am twenty years old and i have. I could possibly have cancer However they found out the sis for not cancerous However i can honestly say that it was the discovery of the cyst on my spine. That trent they've really changed my life forever. So i tell people when i was twenty eight years old almost died and it was the best thing that ever happened to me. Discovery of this cyst really transform my life set me on an orientation Through after they had the surgery they could bay they determined after two surgeries. They found me. Incomplete paraplegic On top of that I had actually contacted mersa an operating room on the second surgery it light. It must doormat for two years and then after two years It when it came through muscatine exploded in four different places and tried to kill me again. so i had a tremendous amount of adversity set through this and actually it caused me to have to spend several years literally six or seven years and acute own care facilities nursing homes. Yes i even had to stay in nursing homes and even won't care centers To nursed the wounds that i had and even when they released me to go home i still spent another ten years in a bed. Bound position at home Medically bid bound. Because i couldn't get up because of the source and things that were on my body. So i spent ten years in that state in that state. Some pretty amazing things happen to me from the hospital to home. That has Literally position myself to be able to do some pretty amazing things in business and in life. And i guess this One of the biggest reasons why why was able to meet you. So i'm super excited about that. Opportunity and I wouldn't take anything for it. Man that's awesome and that's a very scary inspirational story that you're still here. You're still kicking and two things that we talked about before when we first met was number. One you're learning to walk again which is awesome. Which means that. There's a chance that you'll be back mobile again. The second one was is that you got your first. Client your first coaching client from the hospital. Man yeah so like actually. When i was in the hospital i was going to physical therapy and i will seek as doing things. Amazing things like the effort that they will put into doing things like being able to put their hand their head Or to take steps on. Uneven surface Manage just like they were given one hundred ten percent. It's like we take these things so much for granted and i will find myself encouraging these people. They didn't even know who i was. But i would. You got this come. On two more steps you know and they were like and it and it inspired them and compel them to go beyond to challenge their own limitation and so that would become significant later on in life. And we'll talk about that later. Put that kind of drive. That kind of experience called someone to say to me. You are an amazing coach. I said no i. I played sports in school. But i was never a coach and he says no. I mean like a motivational coach. A life and i went the roman looked up life coach and There was was certification. There did i get Become a life coach. And as i steadied in. Yeah this is just like me. And so i got my certification to become a life coach and Also started an online radio. Show right there in hospital and the doctors would actually tell the nurses to put up a sign to say. Do not disturb. He's recording so i can't even make this stuff up. My my hospital room turned into a studio slash office for me and someone called in one day and inquired about my coaching services and Sitting in email and said that they would be willing. If i would be willing to coach them that they would you know they would pay my they pay me x. Amount of dollars to do it and just tell them where to send the money. Well i'm at a hospital. My suppose tell you know but Needless to say We did it. And i worked with them over the phone. They never knew they never knew. I was in hospital until many many many years later. When i disclosed how my business started that way and they were totally blown away so Yeah i let my first client in a hospital bed in the hospital and on to build a multiple six figure business A coaching business from a bed bound condition. So you know. Twenty twenty has been a challenging year for everybody. There's no question about that but man if you could go through all of that stuff and be successful how do we take that stuff off the vine as you were saying before and turn it into wine. How do we take this experience that we're going through now and make it better so we know that You can go into a grocery store and buy big. Bushel of grapes or And in a call she may be. I don't know maybe a dollar sixty dollars. Sixty nine zero pound or something like that are bushel and You can take those grapes. Popham off put them in salads. Eat them Whatever you decide to do you crush them have been slow. These whatever you decide however there is a certain type of grape that grows in a vine and is used to create fun. Why and so where. Some grapes or crushed At as some grapes are put into food and Placed in items to be consumed at a dollar and sixty eight cents. Some are actually crushed and sold at fifty dollar bottle of wine or more and the whole lesson behind. That is that you actually could be more valuable in a different form. And i think that's the piece that i share. I love sharing with experts. Is that especially in the middle of crisis like what we have encountered in twenty twenty That we will come across a crisis where we would have with the way that we conventionally and traditionally did things would come into question and many people once. They lost the traditional and conventional opportunities. They had many of them said. Well what do i do now. And having had the experience of being crushed so to speak. I discovered i was much more valuable than a different form I was much more valuable having had an experience of being bed bound and building a business this from a home bound bed bound position Where i couldn't get out where i couldn't go do anything else. When kovic strike dislike my business exploded. Because it was the one thing that i could speak about genuinely or authentically and really help people navigate or turn their businesses around and As a result of it. I watched some pretty amazing things. Take place and twenty twenty in my business because i was teaching people that pay. You could be more valuable than a different for okay so give me an example of how you tick somebody who was grape cell and turn them into a fine chardonnay or merlot. Oh yes like. i have one client. Who specializes in government contracting and They would they were speaker so they go out. And do amazing presentations. People would fall in love with them. And then they would make their presentation about The government contracting opportunities That existed and you could take her. You sit in one her trainings. Well when kovic drug she could no longer go out and do speaking. Engagements speaking events were very lucrative And so she was unable to do those things and as a result was she came to work with me. I said well you know what you don't necessarily have to do a physical speaking event for you to Provide value to his client. You do something virtually and you to provide the trainings online. And you can do the courses very much online And provide just as much value and even create more. You could actually take more students. Because you're virtual well. She implemented it and in the first month that she did it beta. She actually matched her income that she was making his a speaker the third month that she did it she actually doubled her inco and now she's probably doing on average four times hers speaking income and she was doing before all because she switched modality in which she was doing what it is. She's doing and provided value to her clientele in a different form and now her classes. Stay booked. i mean she's booked all the way through the end of the she was booked from march through december and I mean her business times exploded all because you know she went from Just basically being a a normal great to a fine short. May i guess you would say In in in the Government contract and business. It was as been explosive for. That's awesome dude. So if you were to give advice about twenty twenty one. Because i think we're entering another phase of change and so what are some of the telltale signs that you think people need to pay attention to to say you know what it's time for me to crush. It's time for me to look at things differently. Well our ego is like you know they say the inner may is the biggest enemy we have. We'd love hearing how good we are at things And people they often spend their time consumed with things that they're very good at But very few people do what they are best at and when you're in a crisis it's very important to focus on something that you are the best at what you do best not something you just do good but something you do. Best and being able to frame your expertise around a client's problem what it gives you the ability to do the understanding of that problem and how you do what you do. Best allows you to differentiate yourself from your competition and get paid premium for the solutions that you provide So i think in this process like in this time is really is a good time to focus on not so much of what you do. Good which are good ad. What do you do best. What do you do best. Because that's going to allow you to differentiate yourself from other people and put you in a niche where you have no rivals and allows you to collect premium for what it is that you do man. That's awesome advice well. Am and this has been great. And i'm sure people are gonna wanna get to know you and follow. So what's the best way for them to connect well great. Thank you for of it opportunity. You can connect with me. You can go to coach. Am williams dot com www dot coach a. m williams dot com. Check out the site c. Were doing here. So you can follow me on facebook or twitter or instagram or even linked in you can follow me there. I'll be about provide a lot of great inspiring compelling content to get people to step out of their norm of safe and disappointing to doing something risky and extremely rewarding awesome man. Well i appreciate you. I appreciate your story. I appreciate you coming on and dropping some sizzling hot bacon knowledge bombs on my peeps men. I look forward to connecting with you again soon. Same here. it's been a pleasure my friend. Well that's it for today's vacant podcast. We hope you enjoyed it and learn something today. If you did please go to. I tunes and give a review. We appreciate all your feedback and comments if you have any questions go to to. Www dot bacon podcast dot com forward slash questions. And we'll make sure we get those answered for you till next time keeps sizzling.
#hottakeoftheday podcast Episode 111 w/Jill Evanko, Chart
"What is going on heartache nation. It is david ramsden. Would here for another episode of the hot. Take of the day podcast and today. I'm excited to be joined by jila. Vanco who is the ceo of chart industries. Now many of you may not be familiar with chart industries. And i myself had had to do some reading which dovetails with a lot of reading of and doing on energy hydrogen etc. So first of all jill. Welcome to the show. How are you today as david. I'm thrilled to be here and we're doing very well as you said. There's a lot of things going on in business. I'm excited to talk about it. Yeah i we don't usually talk a lot about financial results but looks like from twenty twenty perspective. You had you know a whole bunch records record. Cashflow record profits record backlog. Orders talk to me about what chart is and what business you've been building here over the last number of years we've definitely young taking some strategic to the business over the last couple of years. Bill let me start with where we are today and then i'll explain some of those changes Today we are the global leader in providing equipment or industrial gas and clean energy and markets. And if you really boil it down what we do. Is we make cryogenic equipment and people say well. What is that young my freezing. Somebody's head in a tank. And yes you can do that up but what we do. Is we make the equipment that handles a variety of different molecules typically at very low temperatures and would that equates to is the ability to play in a variety of different applications on whether it's hydrogen whether it's ellen g whether it's traditional oil and gas and over the last couple of years we've seen a real trend toward the movement of sustainability in the world and that's played into our equipment being utilized in clean energy applications clean water applications wastewater on clean food and packaging. So we have people that goes into reducing the bottles water and how much plastic goes into that so we really pride ourselves on high highly engineered equipment and being able to also service that after the fact so repair and service with prince on. And we do this across the globe. Over the last few years we've added a multiple different manufacturing facilities through both investments and acquisitions and now we have a massive amounts of manufacturing capabilities in china india nine locations in europe and Various locations in the states so that allowed us really serve on the entirety of this movement toward on cleaner power at the crux of what we offer. So you can imagine. I have a lot of questions. I'm going to start basic because actually wanted to tie it a little bit to cove it. I'd vicky hall of on the podcast in august and one of the things we did she had talked about. Was the work from home. Made sense for a period of time but the lack collaborations clearly. You're a growing company you are. You're all over the world so there's probably some elements of work from home versus. Not but i just wanted to start with. How did you run your organization. How big is your is your organization. How many offices. How did you balance work from home versus. Not and what are you planning on doing in twenty one and beyond to to help adapt or modify. Do the same thing for your business as you've done before share so we have forty two hundred team members around the world about half are in the us half outside the us and we had twenty six different manufacturing locations around the globe so you can imagine s kind of cool. It'd be sought roll through various countries that each one has different requirements on the number one premise. That we have as company at safety first so that was really important that we made sure that we put the right protocols in place but doug tailing with that We were considered at each of our twenty six locations to be essential manufacturing what that means and what that was very specific to in cova time. Was we do make equipment that as a commented the mall agnostic equipment and our equipment is utilized for medical grade oxygen and that was used in hospitals. It was using medical mobile transports for field hospitals nursing homes even So for us. It was really critical that we had our workforce get to work and be able to ramp up production to To save lives so that was a key part of a staying open throughout the pandemic. What will we did was we said. office employees home. That could work from home and could work remotely and while it's certainly We've certainly all learned that soon and teens is somewhat effective. You still do this. That personal interaction in as a leadership team. We really felt like we can't say all right. If you are a chop team member of ours you have to come to work late. I'm gonna sit home while you come to work so it was really important. That has leader team. We were out there on the shop floor with our team members that were coming to work every day. We did put a lot of protocol in place around mass wearing around temperature taking staggered shifts spacing out on machinery and equipment and also obviously all the for long pending were located so for twenty twenty one of we have nearly all of our workforce back. There are some people that Working from home. It's fine and we always had that previous to comb it on so we'll continue that capability because there is on a level of attracting talent. Where if you can work remotely and your affected that it took us Generally speaking our approach go for this year is Reinvigorate e person to person interaction. And do that as wall with our customers. And we've seen that the first couple months of twenty twenty one the customer activity in face to face meetings and then on pretty active which is great. You do accomplish a lot more when you're trying to get a deal done by sitting in the same room and hammering that out you one of the things i've been wondering and maybe it's less so from your business because maybe your competitors are in a slightly different space in your working different angle. But i've sort of had the view that the people who were most interested in being in the office are also very social. They're also probably the business development and the salespeople and as soon as the world reopens and they can get back out full force travel. It's going to be a knife fight for business. Because there's such pent up demand and i think maybe twenty twenty. A lot of people just stayed with their existing suppliers because going through april june. How do i change suppliers. How do i pick things. So you role everything forward. I'm do agree that twenty twenty one and beyond is going to be a knife fight and even more so than maybe some of the safety protocols and vaccine or no vaccine or whatever but at the end of the day that businesses going to morph to whatever the customer needs or do you think it really is a new normal and and things will change. I'm curious your perspective as a as a ceo of a very large international organization. I think it's a little bit of both To to be straightforward on my answer the first part is that some of the larger customers that are significantly larger customers in global organizations. Had really shut everything down into the extent of. Hey you can't go more than one hundred miles from your home in a vehicle production so i think that definitely ther- hints up demand for those types of us resented their field service guys need to get back out on in that for us to positive. The other side of that though is throughout the pandemic we've seen on some of the smaller companies and smaller customers distributors that are regional say. Hey i'm gonna take his opportunity that while being a shutdown. I'm going to go out. And i'm going to generate some business and maybe take some market share. So we've seen a little bit of shifted vile customers on. And i'm not sure that's temporary or that's gonna kinda bright size itself over this coming year And then i do think there's an aspect that is we do have a little bit of a new normal late coupling uncoupling some of this recovery and coming out of pandemic and i do. I do think you know you'll be see oil price comeback. You're not that haven't even more when playing start flying more on that a that coupled with this whole market movement toward this espn sustainability targets and concepts is really a good thing for the charter business. Overall and the customer behaviors. I also think are going to be very regionalized. And that's something of being a global company is good bad. You have multiple ever simple but you also have multiple different scenarios to manage. It'll be interesting to see our peers to whether they have woodland on things like travel and expense categories. And we've been pretty careful all along to make sure that if we are traveling other people dead economic. Send to at a time things like that. But i think there's some whiplash built up in terms of cost and expenses and that's going to be managed by Interest so let's talk about the business and in particular have been reading a lot about hydrogen and thinking about an apple. It's actually funny. I believe you have a partnership with ballard. Power systems My sister intern in vancouver british columbia in around nineteen ninety. Seven or eight worked for ballard as her first job. So i found it interesting but i know with the fuel cells and hydrogen. I hear a lot of people. Say it's just you know commerciality of it. Isn't there ninety. Nine percent of the world's hydrogen. As i understand is produced from natural gas as opposed to from water and that the bulk of us is in big big industrial heavy trucks with four thousand pound tanks. Eighty thousand pound vehicles talked about hydrogen hydrogen business the clean element to that The the makeshift. What goes into it. I understand is a lot of energy to synthesize hydrogen You're the expert so so so regale us with tales wall so you're absolutely correct that about ninety five percent of the world hydrogen today. S are bluer producer. Natural gas and yoga stepping back. Without say's the hydrogen phenomenon really started back in may of twenty twenty on chrome chart perspective. We've been making virginia equipment for over fifty years. Nobody really cared about until last may which is interesting. Because it's similar it similar and different to other molecules and other power sources in terms of its evolution. And i think probably the number one thing that fleas into what's happening in the market today has nothing to do with logic. It has everything to do with peer pressure on. So if you compare hydrogen to like ellen g it has similar fits and starts over the last decades and you had pure league is industry guys that were dedicated to. I'm gonna do green hide pin. And i'm gonna figure it out. It's going to be part of the teacher in that. Was the same with ellen and that's kind of how it unfolded but ellen has always stayed in a very tight industry pocket on fine. It's part of. It's part of the total hybrid solution that currently exists in will continue to exist but in hydrogen. What you're seeing is every you. If you think of any company's name i guarantee you they will put something out on hydrogen in that's was never the case with any other fuel or any other powers i if google something amazon well microsoft does young. Gm well and so you have this whole series of on what i d pure vector. Probably not the right phrase but a lot more. Standard companies are exploring how to utilize heaviness part of the solution. Would i would say is the challenge to hydrogen though is what you come into non. It's the cost comparison to Fossil fuels and its level of green on the scale. But what is common in the space right now whether it's hydrogen or green algae or carbon capture is that everyone is focused on taking steps may not going from aid is immediately renamed from diesel to green hydrogen but everyone's focused on taking steps to achieve these carbon emission reduction targets that are out there on both governments as well as in the private. They'll need in right or wrong. Everybody lots of lots of these government and private industry folks have put a twenty fifty target out but then almost all also twenty thirty target out and the only way you're going to get there is through a combination of a similar blue atra chain Some clearer carbon credit activities and in my opinion carbon capture has to be a key part of night on that evolution. Yo so i'm. I'm still very curious of hydrogen market. But you raise carbon capture. We've seen oxy is an example. Really move exxon's move the same way. Chevrons moved the same way that this this carbon capture business is gonna be huge. One of the challenges that i see is that you know. Co two floods in highly fractured reservoirs. Like the permian. I struggle with so it's more of a conventional business or just downright storage. Where you're just injecting co two into old depleted conventional reservoirs. It's not really ever gonna do anything. It's just going to stay there and and and be down there. I'm where is the technology at on it whereas kreil how does your company play a role in carbon capture and what is the future of carbon capture. Broadly i mean. Is it possible to take coal plants and suck the car the co two emissions off with some of the nox and sox and just inject him down reservoirs with the same technology or where. Where's the technology going. Yeah yes there's there's really three types of technology on the capture side The two of them are post combustion. Carbon capture technology one being cryogenic. The other being aiming in. Then there's direct air capture. So i shall direct air capture. We we do record catcher quite frequently. But that's really not solving for existing asset of co two atmosphere emission of co two on direct air capture really takes the co two out of atmosphere and then uses it a in an application for power source so he focused on the post combustion capture which is really what the major international oil companies are looking at and say have these systems assets. What am i going to do with the co two on a. We have process technologies both owned as walls with investments on that couple very well with our air exchangers and point out that ercole heat exchangers are by far the number one almost important piece of equipment in a catcher application so From when this thing takes off were in a good position as a company but that too when is gonna take off how can happen. I think that we've made progress as an industry around demonstration size projects of. There's a lot of lemon a try out in its tentative. Thirty nine per day sizes which at the end of the day are just not commercially. Viable they're more testing outhouses. Spent work doesn't work How handled nothing leaks. And all the accompanying you know the the what is the other piece of it is the storage site as he's just in the states that's easy on plenty of underground storage capabilities. Plenty of space in west texan permian. It's in europe. As a whole different problem. The geology in europe does not allow for the storage that you would expect so directionally on what we're seeing is end users industrial users that have use for. Co two are wants thinking through. How do i put catcher process into existing facility. And then i'll re basically how close loop cycle utilizing c o two that captured and put it back into whatever quichen so number one on application. That is out there is on cement concrete during. But i think that you're going to see more and more of this happened across the industrials. If you step back and you look at two as a whole in two thousand twenty. Herman was it was. You couldn't get it was needed for a lot of applications and ios. There is a shortage of it. Which is just ironic considering conversation. We're having But you know it's used in it's used in on dry ice it's used in firefighting it's used in food preservation and it's used in curing. Yeah and the list goes on. So i do think that there's gonna be a good sense of application for the first places that are going to be able to on put it into actually use are the ones that have the ability to reuse it onsite on so that that's the key to one of the things that seems really hard to me about the whole concept really. Is that especially since we're going to be built like without rebuilding infrastructure that already exists. But you're gonna have the end user of co two and and. I think about in canada when when the waiver and oilfield and it was in canada at the time had to build like a two hundred or three hundred mile pipeline to. I believe it was a fertilizer plant. That made something like one hundred. Eighty million cubic feet a day. Seo to and through this pipeline and of course twos highly corrosive. And and how do you manage that but just from a from a you know unless you're right next to a coal plant you know. Natural gas is burned in people's homes. You know maybe you capture some of the tailings from a natural gas power plant but we continue to move in a direction where you know. Those aren't being built. There probably isolated from other industrial use and then as you said the underground capture in particular in europe like it seems like one of those. It's a nice thing to say and in the technology will probably get there. But unless you're just able to suck. Co two out of the air wherever you are close to an application that seems like the game changing technology but it also sounds incredibly expensive to think about that the right way i think the packers elements of that that we would agreement agree with that. There's also elements where you have to solve. There's no way you're gonna hit a thirty percent. Carbon emission reduction target in the next ten years. Unless you're actually finding a way to capture what remitted or to your point right ripping out existing assets on and so of utilization of the existing infrastructure is really what that carbon capture is trying to solve for on the carbon capture itself. Right now is certainly Less expensive than director capture so to the taking out of the year utilizing. But i do think that the direct air capture is gonna be. It's gonna rival but if you have existing assets. There's you can't do your capture in solve the problem you're trying to solve for so i think it's really around. If if i didn't have to address my carbon footprint. I agree with everything you just said. I is a company. I do have to address the urban. And if i'm gonna keep operating my existing assets. I'm gonna have to find a way to capture what emitting and do something with it in terms of the pipelines. How how the metallurgy works in the safety around it on. That's that's really not the issue. It really a dearborn comes down to cost and that cost is being driven down every day. I think you're going to see that more and more as scales so to me on. The size of carbon capture facilities is going to be combined bigger on from instead of these smaller footprints whereas i think the opposite occurs with some of the other molecules like hydrogen. Where the more you can do. An a spoke model or smaller scale model on the more effective your network becomes on put. Both of these conversations are still really embryos and they're still really a lot of innovation in space happening on an kind of like we say internally raila where do you wanna place your bet on the roulette wheel of any of this because there's a. There's a variety of different central albums. One of the things that i've read and you can maybe confirmed so. We're going to switch back to methane. Because methane is used to make hydrogen. And i wanna learn more about that but methane and from an oil and gas perspective methane emission certainly I believe the numbers are roughly eighty times. The greenhouse gas impact that even co two has so a minor reduction in methane emissions has a huge impact even relative to co two. Which even though we've defined it as a pollutant. And i hate to sound like a cynic but like we all exhale. Co two and plan saul inhale. So we've sort of made the boogeyman. Co two even though incrementally water vapor has a huge greenhouse gas emission. And we never talk about water as a pollutant. Because that's just that's just crazy talk. But methane one hundred percent is and i'm curious what technologies you have both for methane capture. Maybe lng small-scale ellen g off venting or or some of the new technologies emerging there and then go to hydrogen and walk me through how hygienist made from natural gas and how it's more or less energy intensive to take it create it and then burn hydrogen versus just burning the seal the the methane in the first place chair on. So you know. We're we're definitely a leader in terms of addressing methane leaks in that goes to the capability that we have on the equipment itself but also some of the innovation we have around on the interlinkages of processes in the balance of plant to our equipment. And where you know we can cut down on the weld in between you're really have the ability down on where the leak could occur on the other thing that is really unique offering that we have and this is just one example. Multiple pending on chronic. That you have is on a concept called smart layer which into our heat exchangers and the smart layer pom process actually detects methane leak ahead of it hitting atmosphere also detects the inside of the equipment before it hits the layer that's going to go into atmosphere. There's a lot of reducing methane. Leakage is a very heightened focus in the industry itself. And you know to your point when you're talking about those that's that's a great way to start solving your problem on. Its go go in and figure out where that will weaken this set of equipment or senior interplay of equipment in my plans. And you're starting immediately to address the problem at hand perceived from and then around kind of technology needed invasion where that's going on small-scale terminals what we're seeing more and more on the small scale g side of things in addition to the leak detection systems Molecule ready types of facilities that. We're working on building and that goes to the liquefaction process. So if you can look will fight. One molecule can find ways in processed liquefy more than one molecule and what that will allow for is as evolution of hydrogen in natural gas together. Play more and more and what one of the key topics in the industry right now is blending. On hydrogen into natural gas pipelines. And how much of that can you do. And does that kind of address. What you're saying. Which is i truly expensive. But it also has some characteristics that are cleaner than just straight up natural gas and the target for a lot of our s curves kind of thirty to thirty five percent blending hydrogen international pipelines. Like twenty thirty five. So you get a sense that where we are today is you can blend. It's kind of industry agreed. Length fifteen to twenty percent. Hydrogen right now in that works doesn't really accomplish much in the second being young. There's there's a movement or the s in having the equipment that can handle multiple angles and detect leaks which is both of what we provide on is a key part of setting up on these types of terminals and then in terms of the production of hydrogen storage of it utilization of it there's varying levels on value chain of Do i use are blue. Or am i just going to focus on doing green hydrogen. And right now it's really around Utilization as quickly as possible story. And so that's that's kind of the current industry mentality on. We're seeing more and more though than large-scale production facilities and then they have to store in storage tanks in transported to the end use again. None of which yet is cost competitive. So i'd consider the consider the industry still in an embryonic form to and that's why you see a lot of partnerships happening is the more you can offer inferior this full solution instead of twenty different pieces of the value. Chain trying to make margin on it that way. That's how you're going to be able to address this issue and on but green is lot green as a tenure on top of that lucien so walk me. Through the the use of natural gas pipelines to transport hydrogen in some sort of blend that that sort of envisions that there's gonna be some plant upstream. That's taking feedstock natural gas and instead of it being sent to homes to heat or to power plans to create power your incrementally doing something to create hydrogen and blending it. Is that happening on. You talked about a fifteen percent accepted standard now. Is that happening a lot too. And and what is the physical. Like when when i burn hydrogen. Do i have to re separate for methane. i. I imagine it would have a lower equivalent. Btu content. if i'm thinking about the molecules correctly yeah yeah yes. You're thinking about a correctly what's happening. I wouldn't say it's Extremely widespread. But we're seeing most of the hydrogen blending in the current state is off from utility companies still happening in hawaii. It's happening ireland them so a lot of what is more public policy driven and that's That again goes to these ten to twenty year goals. That are out there on the biggest challenge that they from and again this is. This is people that handle the molecule on the two biggest challenges are the meddler here in britain went off having been go through a natural gas pipeline on. That's not an easy problem to solve it. You can solve it with money but you can't really solve it. Effectively on an economic basis yet on from our perspective the biggest issue or the the ends of the pipeline because of how it moves in and out on the challenges unless you have a continuous flow. That's certainly something that The blending the spits starts it can create Iselin you're have brittle mint on the top because the hydrogen would be lighter. H two would be lighter than c h four if i remember my chemistry parade correctly from my engineering degree. Yes yeah absolutely so. Those are the types of count is. They're being solved out there on in again. Beginners this group of their group of companies in industries and governments are saying are. Let's try to screen concept and will right to that at skip. If we can't skip over the blending portion utilization combination of molecules on my views. It's going to be a hybrid of all of the above And that's again really good thing for our business because were we. Don't care we we don't we don't have over the race of what somebody chooses for their power source on. We do care that you know. We have equipment that handles all think from an industry perspective. It's really important. That the industry's collaborate. And we're seeing much more of that happening stayed in particular in hydrogen that at give give it a fighting chance to be cost competitive and scalable. It is fascinating to think about the technology and to close on hydrogen. Is it fair for me to think about. I mean if our if our true goal is to stop carbon emissions. If that's if that's the goal is the stated goal whether you agree with it or not. That's the stated goal. It would seem to me. That if i if i am correct on the term hydrolysis which would be the act of separating water into hydrogen oxygen. It would seem that that would be the right answer. And is it fair to say that the most plentiful source of water for that is the ocean and the most plentiful source of power to do. That would be offshore wind farms. Like is that sort of the integration. Where you would take off. Shore wind farms create the mass electricity. And whenever a blue you take all that free electricity for all intents and purposes break apart. The oxygen hydrogen hoped stuff doesn't blow up and then figure out a way to transport it to the end user. I mean is that is that fair. Am i thinking about that right again. It's been a long time since i've thought about this but Yes yes in in in a much simplified manner to from what you described absolutely and the other thing i would say it's wall. Hydrogen is flammable. It's also a cooper so there's a lot of characteristics to implicate limit hydrogen that make it Safer than some other molecules that you might be dealing with. But yes that that. That's what you just lined out is absolutely accurate in are seeing. A lot of Wind solar combination projects to hydrogen and one of the interesting things that we see in were again similarly around that kind of linkage to clean water and clean power is in license. You have to at least treat the water in order for it to be clean enough to address ream in the hydrogen sense on in where there's the biggest the biggest challenge with wind and solar is simply what everybody talks about. It's just not consistent in available at the levels that are needed. And so how do you kinda couple these things together. They do think wins. Laura part of the solution on exactly as you strive so more and more of that interlinkage versus something standing on its own and yes. The oakland is definitely Anything that you can do close around that where he can bring it bring water and from that perspective on is going to be better positioned final final subject for today ellen g. I mean we've seen it grow massively around the world we've seen new terminals being built. We've seen the us which i mean. I don't know if you ever thought we'd get to eleven b. f. day of exports. But but we've really managed what what is a very very very low natural gas price environment in the united states because we were able to export three and then six and most recently eleven. Ccf a day where does the energy go. And where does the technology evolve on the ships. That are moving it around the world. And and how do you play a role in that today and in the future. Yes i would say i. Wild twenty twenty was difficult for elegy in particular in the united states on just given nothing happened. It's probably a good thing for the future of the next few years in how place in in our on i see a movement for the spot market for allergy. It's it's definitely odd competitive. Definitely scalable on. What that means is there's gonna be a different model but it doesn't take from the need for supply and so they're twenty twenty. Shed a lot of the outlier potential projects in ellen g on jets furniture. If you weren't through regulatory approvals you're gonna be yours you trend upstream on and so now. You're down to a handful of art at ten small projects around the globe. That are going to be the ones that could constructed in the next four years and provide the supply word on. I think pricing remains competitive. Not get it gets even better on it And certainly even even yesterday right. The tokyo on fleeing analogy alliance got announced with a fourteen different company. Fifteen different companies on including suzu mitsubishi. In tokyo gas inglis and ellen de is carbon neutral ellen clear on that is an important part of our next few years because all these other things that are happening in the background you believe in were invested with their taste time. So that kind of premise of everything. We've talked about today on both early welfare allen's in the next tavist that what's the difference between neutral and normal ellen g so the real differences how a carbon credit system works on than so the carbon credit system can help A regular ellen. G the concept of net. It's like google says their net zero but they need their servers on all the time. So they're actually using fossil fuels but buying credits to offset their carbon footprint. So they're they're the. It's the net zero concept around ellen. The credit that's right. I mean there are some other things happening to address in kidney. Make green angie but also right now it is around the carving on system for credit system. Okay it is a fascinating business and you guys have been absolutely blowing and going and i hope you crush twenty twenty one like you do the like you did twenty twenty personally. Any huge learnings are things that you took personally out at twenty twenty that you're gonna it's gonna change you go forward terms away. Think about people or problems or or anything any any learnings you can share with us on. I think one of the things is. You can't really underestimate all the people you have around you in how they'll step up to a challenge in our team is just done. A yeoman's job being nimble and agile and so on and the other thing is that is. It's really hard when you have to make hard decisions of talent in Letting people go and if you ever start thinking that easy than yearly needs to quit her job in the donald thing goes something helps Because as tough decisions and they should be tough decisions his retaining people's lives so keeping that mind in how that impacts the business in however seen you make impact. Someone's life is super important leader. I love that jill. Thank you so much for joining us on the hot tag today. Podcast and i look forward to hearing the catch up at the end of two thousand twenty one. So thank you. They say all right until next time. This is the hot tag. The day podcast. You can subscribe on apple spotify or wherever you get your shows rate of five star review because the only way we get these messages out and have these conversations persons. We know they're not happening in the media is for us to have long form. Podcast discussion five star ratings. Do that for us until next time. 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The State of Credit Card Security [ML B-Side]
"Hi welcome back to saba reasons militias life. I'm ran living a few weeks ago after we released the second part of the albert gonzalez's series by came across this interesting tweet from one of our listeners. In clearly allman wrote quote. Greatest hacker in the world soup. Nazi was a lot of things calling him. That is ignorant. He wasn't even the brightest hacker in his own circle of friends in reply sherry davidoff. Our guest in the series wrote quote agreed that he wasn't super technical but as prosecutors said he was quote unparalleled in that he didn't just get heck done. He got a heck done. He got the exfiltration of the data done he got the laundering of the funds done. He was a five tool player and later replied with rebuttal of his own. But the reason why i mentioned the short conversation has nothing to do with. How good of a hacker gonzalez was. I mean there's no hecker rating system that we can use to figure out who was the best hacker ever peck in basketball. We have real bonafide statistics shots. Mrs whatever and my daughter and her friends still can't agree on who was the best. Nba player ever michael jordan or lebron james but almost tweet got me thinking about the relationship between a hacker and the technological environment. He or she operates. Take for example. Kevin mitnick who did most of his hacking in the early ninety s the technological landscape back then was very different from our current one. The internet for example was still pretty young if we could magically transport young mitnick to our current time would he still be as successful as he was back. Then by the way kevin. If you're listening to this. I'd love to hear your thoughts about this question. In any case in the albert gonzalez episodes we focused mostly on his character. How obsessive he was and so on but we didn't pay much attention to the technological landscape. Gonzales was operating in our case. How secure or insecure were credit card transactions. Back in two thousand and five to two thousand and seven. That will be the main focus of this beside episode as well as a rather important story. We didn't cover in the series itself the attack on heartland which was even bigger attack than the pga x. nate nelson and cherry davydov. Take it away enjoy militias. Life is sponsored by cyber. There is nothing better than alive simulation. Especially when you're fighting sever tax that are becoming more and more complex. Defenders are always looking for the critical edge to reverse the attackers advantage. And it's only through live attack simulations that you can truly see what might provide you that winning edge joint. Cyber reasons global attack simulations to watch firsthand. How attackers used the latest infiltration methods and execute on sophisticated militias operations and more importantly how to end these operations before they happen. Reserve your spot today at saba reason dot com slash tax sherry. Could you provide us with some context while albert and his crew are operating. What is going on around them. At the time there was a lot of credit and debit card fraud going on this was becoming rampant. And there's a reason for that that you should keep in mind throughout this entire story. The reason is that our payment card system is inherently insecure. Right so imagine you have a long number that you have to keep very very secret because it's the keys to the kingdom but in order to use it you have to give it away to lots and lots of people doesn't that seem a little funny to you so it doesn't have to. It doesn't take a security expert to understand that that is not a secure model for a payment system so that is the fundamental problem throughout this entire criminal spree that we're about to learn about. It's not the fault of the merchants. it's not really even albert's fall to a. Although he certainly chose to take advantage of it there is a fundamental security weakness in this system that we are really only just starting to address fully today so with that in mind at the time. There's been this huge surge of credit and debit card fraud because criminals are getting better and better at breaking into e commerce sites stealing that credit debit card information. They're getting better at breaking into networks since stealing them and they're figuring out how to monetize it incites like shadow crew are really creating this forums. That are helping more more criminals. Learn how to engage in fraud and how to monetize how to monetize their wares when they do steel payment card numbers. Okay so stealing. Credit card information is becoming very popular presumably a retailers. The business world knows about this But of course albert and his crew in our story where still able pretty easily to break into t jax companies. So could you tell me about Tj specifically what was their defense posture. Like how much blame do we assign to them versus giving credit to albert and his crew. Good questions so t. J ax was actually pretty normal for a retailer. At the time again retailers were not investing a ton in cybersecurity and cyber security is new around then. A lot of organizations were just installing their first firewall. So this is a very new thing now. Pci dss had also come out recently. The payment card industry data security standard and this emerged because again there was a huge spike in payment card. Fraud it was clear that this was becoming a global issue and there were threats of legislation. There were just rumblings that maybe the government should do something about this so the card rans at the time said no no no. You don't need to do anything about this. We can regulate ourselves everybody. And they founded the payment card industry security standards council which now manages. Pc ids actually pc ideas came out first by. That's neither here nor there. So the payment card industry data security standard comes out and it sets up these. It established his standard best practices and rules for merchants in order to keep payment card information secure on their networks. But remember let's back up a second. Why do we have payment card fraud to begin with because the system is insecure. Because you have this very long secret number and you have to keep it really really secret but you also have to give it away to people and there are better ways to do payment authentication even then But that would require a big investment in a big system overhaul much larger than what any merchant could invest in and instead The major card brands decided to push that responsibility down to the merchant. Here you go. You now have hazardous material. It's your job to secure. It and merchants are not in the position to do that. Merchants not a security companies. A lot of them are very small businesses. They don't have a ton of resources and what happens. Is they end up having this very valuable sensitive information on their networks with no with really with not enough resources to properly secure it so and you can see how this all played out at the time remember. It could have been any party in the system that ended up being responsible. It could have been the banks in it. In fact it was in some cases it could have been the merchants that took responsibility for painting card security. It could have been the car brands that took responsibility for payment card security but ultimately the brunt of that responsibility fell to the merchants to secure these payment card numbers. I think of payment card numbers and any sensitive information as as hazardous material hind leg nuclear. Waste things like that so you have this hazardous material on the networks of all these retailers around the country and again they don't really have a whole lot of experience or resources for properly controlling it. Nowadays we see things like apple pay and other mobile payment systems that that include token ization. And when you pay using apple pay again as an example you never give your number to the merchant at all. The merchant never has to have your credit card number and so we can't get stolen from their network and that is the way this whole system could have been architect. Did which would have made it impossible for criminals to steal these sensitive card numbers from the merchants networks but it took a long time for us to get that technology rolled out. Can i tell you a little bit. More about tj. Max go ahead okay. So t- tax was not the most responsible organization at the time. Reportedly they had violated nine of the twelve. Pci controls which is not great they restoring pins track two data which was a violation of pci policies. And obviously they had big problems in their network they were using week. Wireless security They didn't notice that hackers were undetected in their network for eighteen months they didn't notice when eighty gigabytes of data was stolen ninety four million card numbers but perhaps the thing that put the most at risk was that they were storing huge volumes of unnecessary personal information. Something that was specifically called out as a problem by the canadian government. So let this be a lesson to all of us that we can reduce our risk by by storing less sensitive information store less of that hazardous material. So there is a major major part of this story that we're not even going to be able to get to cover in the miniseries Sherry could you tell us about what happened after tj maxx when albert and his crew were able to get more advanced and achieve an even greater data breach. Yeah let me tell you the next piece because remember it all flows together so now it's around two thousand seven and he's bored at the secret service. He's not showing up on time they're talking about hr issues. They're thinking of letting him go at the same time sequel injection is. The big raise is the big rage. So sequel injection attacks are flaws in websites that allow hackers to gain access through the web application and send commands into a back end database and manipulate that back and database so that it returns things that the programmers did not intent so albert encourages his cohorts to experiment with sequel injection and remember. He himself is not super technically advanced. But he's putting all the pieces together so he encourages his gang. To try out sequel injections see where they can make it work and in that process they end up hacking the store. Forever twenty one. Albert's friend patrick tui was the one in particular that broke into forever. Twenty one they also were really interested in point of sale systems. And this is where albert's brilliance came in again. He wanted fresh card numbers and he thought. Where do i get this from. I want to get them from the point of sale systems themselves so he took to two stores around miami. They would look at point of sale systems. Figure out the brands that different retailers were using in one case one of his colleagues actually disconnected a point of sale system from a retailer and brought it back for them to examine. He would get loggins passwords from other criminals online. Who had stolen them from point of sale manufacturers. So taking all this information together he was able ultimately to go straight to the point of sales servers when he broke into a retailer. So he'd get into a retailer. He had user names and passwords for point of sale systems like the default passers and he would go straight into those servers so he could pull those fresh numbers office systems in the next part of the interview nathan sherry dive deeper into the more technical aspects of credit cards security mechanisms. So i figured it would be a good time to pause discussion and provide you with some background and context back in the early. Nine hundred ninety s credit cards were processed in one of two ways the first using mechanical device to imprint the actual numbers and text of the card on an actual piece of paper. This method is mostly obsolete nowadays. The second method is electronic. Device that weeds the formation stored on magnetic strip on the back of the card and this method is still being used today but it is very insecure because there is no easy way to confirm the identity of the card holder. That is to verify that the person holding the card is indeed. The person who owns the card technically the shopper is required to sign a receipt and ciller required to store that signed receipt as proof that the client was physically present at the store at the time of the transaction but this is and was a big hassle for everyone and ultimately didn't prevent fraud as albert gonzalez and his crew proved. It was very easy to copy the credit card information to a blank card and use the cloned credit card to steal tons of money. Modern credit cards use a standard called. Emv named after europay mastercard and visa who developed it and mvp card or smartcard has an embedded chip that can be read by terminal equipped with special connector or even wirelessly using nfc technology for information on the chip is encrypted and cannot be so easily cloned as the magnetic strip was the chip also performs some crucial offline security checks such as comparing four digit pin personal identification number entered by the user to a number stored on the chip this way. Cloning your card or using stolen one becomes much more difficult and indeed card present frauds frauds where the attacker is physically present at the store. During the transaction have declined by up to eighty percent in the past ten years or so still the mvp standard does have its shortcomings as we should here shortly. So that's where we get into heartland now in the case of heartland albert and his colleagues initially broke in with a sequel injection attack. And this was actually done in conjunction with two friends of his that were eastern european criminals. So they broke in. they gave persistence. They installed the back door. And then he's techniques that were similar to what he had been. Using for years they installed that sniffer software on the network. What made heartland different was that. They were a payment processor. They were not a retailer and again. Here's where here's where albert's brilliance comes in. He says i'm tired of just going to the end points. I want to get to the arteries of the payment processing system and steal card numbers from there so he breaks into heartland which is the fifth largest largest merchant acquirer in the united states. At the time they receive credit card numbers from two hundred thousand merchants in two thousand eight hundred sixty six point nine billion transactions and even with all that they didn't have good security. They were pretty security advanced for the time they were. pci compliant. They were doing what they could to keep the secure network. But once albert was in he was in he was sniffing credit card numbers off that network. They weren't even in there that long and got one hundred thirty million credit card numbers. Okay so how did heartlands response. Once they figured out what albert and his career done differ from teach exes. I mean they're honestly neat. They're very different organizations. So tv is a retailer. And what made the tj axe breach a landmark case was that it really sorted out the liability issues involved involved in credit card fraud so there were a lot of lawsuits coming out of tj ex. Us saw their lack of compliance being used in court for what i believe the first time that was being used to demonstrate their negligence ultimately tj maxx there was a settlement and the retailer tj x. Paid the issuing bank's millions of dollars to compensate for some of their losses. So it certainly didn't cover by any stretch of the imagination all of the fraud. But here you have an important precedent. Where the merchant is held liable in the case of hartland. We have a very different scenario. Heartland was actually pc compliant. At the time that the break in occurred they had invested very heavily insecurity. Visa came out after the fact and said oh heartland you were retroactively not compliant because if you weren't compliant you wouldn't have been hacked and so that really caused a big backlash in the security community. People were like well. What's the point of pc compliance if you can be retroactively noncompliant but i really respect heartlands response to their breach the ceo. At the time. Bob carr really took it to heart. They wanted something like this. They wanted to make the entire system more secure so they analyzed the hack and how'd heard in realized a big part of what made it possible for albert's game to steal this card. Numbers was the fact that card numbers were not encrypted as they went across the network and in fact at the time the card brands were not really supporting encryption from end to end all away from the point of sale network to transition though car brands heartland really pioneered this process. So they created the heartland eat three encrypting payment device and this encrypted your car data using a hardware p. pm chip so that meant that. The card numbers couldn't be sniffed out of the memory of the point of sale system. They couldn't be sniffed as they were transmitted across the network. Either the merchants network or heartlands network and then they rolled out the heartland secure point of sale systems which included their encryption process also. Emv known as the and token ization where your card number is replaced so this is a super super secure point of sale device. They believed in it so much that they also offered a merchant breach warranty which meant that if a merchant was hacked and card numbers were stolen and they were using the heartland e. three encrypting payment device that hartley would actually reimburse them for any fees or fines that were assessed. They believed in their product so much but unfortunately it was a little ahead of its time. There was no requirement for merchants to upgrade to these point of sale systems. A lot of merchants just didn't see the roi on security and so there was not widespread adoption of encryption or token ization. You know the honestly kinda sounds more advanced than the stuff we've got going on today. The heartland e. three encrypted payment device is better and more advanced than what we see today in a lot of cases. And that's because eventually after the target breach happened we saw hard brands requiring the use of chip and pin. Emv that's you put a smart chip in a point of sale system and it helps to prevent your card number from being copied because instead of using that magnetic stripe. That's easy to copy your using a cip. The problem is that ship in pin does not require encryption across the network it does not require token ization But it does make money for the card brands because the car brands have a patent on that on. Emv it's They are owners in a company called. Emc co llc which patented the chip around nineteen ninety nine the late nineties And so win. They required the chip What most people didn't realize was that they were also creating a whole new avenue for card brands to profit off of insecurity. So what's the bottom line. Then what can we take away from albert story about the inherent security or rather insecurity of the credit card system. It's important to understand that. The payment card system is inherently insecure. If it hadn't been albert stealing these card numbers it absolutely would have been someone else. You will long secret number that you have to give away to lots and lots of people in order to use it so we can do better. We can build systems. That are fundamentally secure but we need to be aware of the insecurities and question why these hacks are happening and stop putting bandaids. On to address the sentence we need to address the underlying the fundamental security flaws cable music music music music.
VP 191 Choose your own Smurfette
"The loss of Veloce Veloce podcast loss of podcast. Hey sexy friend. He's making me his bitch of that. Want to talk about sexy teens. Erections it's a very creepy field. I can guarantee that underwear theft will come up again. None of this is relevant. Pokemon cokie balls seven hundred and fifty middle bottle of rum. Welcome to the podcast a study. -nology this is your grumpy. Uncle Pizza. He will say words at you. Okay my thought of the day. That's very short is primarily aimed at gamers. But I've been playing far cry new don and one of the things they've done is try to give the NPC's your partner that goes with you so when you're playing co op can have a partner come with you and assist you in fighting and stuff are they did this and Sky Room and other games like that what they need though is the setting for your NBC partners They need for bossidy setting so you could set it too high. So the characters are verbose and talk a lot or you can have a shut the fuck upsetting because let me tell you what far cry new. Don's needs on. Some of these characters is a. Just shut. The fuck upsetting. Because I'm trying to do something else right now. This isn't something I normally do but of course when I do the PODCAST. My friends They listen to it. And then we ended up in further conversations that unfortunately it can't record but at least in this case this was done through techs. I was actually just GonNa read the texts of some friends. One is a Non Star Trek Fan. One is sort of a passable. Kinda just knows what's going on in the Star Trek Universe and then me one other guy are pretty deep in like we could name the different ships and stuff and that wouldn't seem weird to us so it starts. This might be a silly question. If people can teleport anywhere why are there still so many different types of transportation vehicles in star trek movies because teleportation costs a lot of energy and requires a lot of calculations that only a computer can do and they can't tell the port anywhere? Oh so only rich. People can teleport in Star Trek. There is no more money. There are no rich people. You have a limited distance and I think it has to be a straight line to teleport. It's mostly about energy. Most transporters have limited range also. You can't transport through shields and transporting during more speed is hazardous but the show's original creators devised the idea as a way to save on film. Production costs they figured out. Teleporting would be cheaper to film than having the ship land in every episode. Like teleporting. Shit. You talked about that once. Teleportation does open a lot of strange doors. I did once talk about teleporting poop straight out of your body so in the future you wouldn't have to lean need toilets anymore. Teleporting things out of the body way too dangerous. What if you accidentally teleport out the bottom half of lung while trying to remove a tumor? It's true sometimes. People cannot be beamed up because of interference but there are teleport's like phone booths. My premise is that you could teleport out any foreign DNA. That's anywhere isn't it? Why don't they have money? How can they use public transport? They have solved food and energy issues with technology. So money became redundant Then people wouldn't have to work and there would be heaps of people just making babies. That's fine if you have unlimited food and Energy. I guess you could tell the out parts of people's brains then too dumb to figure out what happened raped by teleport teleport a huge dildo into some woman's Vagina. Wow I look away for five minutes and then come back to teleportation rape just. Wow are you talking about forcing pregnancy on people? That's very anti femininity. It's not rape. There could be women who just want kids. It's possible now but it's too expensive. Maybe teleporting can just be done online. Terrorists could teleport tens of thousands of dildos into innocent civilians vaginas and then all at once to a mass rape the September eleventh of rape. No they can't. They would need passwords. Some people would be like Whoa. That felt nice but still it generally would be terrorism. If I could order seeming online I would have at least ten ten kids not dildos and then we basically start talking about corona virus and toilet paper but there are some other things you can now consider in these kind of contributions I look forward to increasing on the podcast. So if you have any thoughts any ideas any questions or comments you can always send an email to veloce podcast at gmail.com or you could go to voice linked dot FM slash. Veloce podcast and leave a voice comment there and then I can even included in the show. I actually forget how and why came. I know I've talked about the smurfs in the past but it's such an old comic and cartoon actually it just seemed there's a lot of young who've never even really heard of the smurfs. Recently in the news. There was a gathering of French people. All dressed like smurfs This was in the midst of the Corona pandemic people were saying that was a bad idea than the mayor of the town was like. Nah It's all right because you know. Apparently smurfs CAN'T GET CORONA VIRUS? Even if they're just people painted blue but the bad guy in it Decided to cause trouble for the smurfs. He always wanted to catch them and people say why. Did he want to catch somebody to hate them so much? He was an alchemist and he thought if you can catch US Murphy could use them to turn lead into gold so this is just like an old alchemy thing and he thought these magical creatures would be the secret ingredient to make this thing happen. He wanted to sow discord amongst the smurfs which had a very peaceful and well organized society. Where everyone had the rule. And that's why you have. Each smurfs has a definitive feature. And then something smarts Carpenter smart. He knows what he's GonNa do for the rest of his life despite that that's really just a form of enslavement and predestination and you have no free well but they didn't mind you know some people some animals some creatures they actually find them best selves with these restrictions so to sow discord amongst the smurfs gargle. Mel Created SMURFIT the only female smurfs. You can see the logic that's being thrown out there. The underlying message is not a great one for International Women's Day which was two weeks ago. The interesting thing was so we ended up talking about it. I explained it yes. She was essentially a laboratory. Experiment created to cause discord and he thought in an all male society. What would cause the most discord? Google chose a female and so the formula for making him though has been published he was part of the comic and he says Sugar and spice but nothing nice. A dram of crocodile tears a pack of bird brain the tip of an address tongue and half a of lies white. Of course the slightness of a cat the vanity of a peacock the chatter of a magpie. The guile of Vixen and the disposition of shrew and of course the hardest stone for a heart now the interesting thing is that when she is then created. She looks just like a smurfs but she has black hair and there are some features. She's wearing a dress and she has some eyelashes and stuff to to distinguish her. From being one of the males I was actually not a huge difference But brunette bit is the bit sticks out because what happens is Papa smurfs. The leader of the SMURFS Commun- decides he's going to fix her and he fixes her through Plastics Murray. So if all those ingredients we heard above or what. She's made of plastic smer. Furry is really just changing the surface. And he's making it sound Papa. Murphy's making it sound like that's enough to change. The person which again is not really a great message to be sending people that the core of their being isn't what matters it's actually just their surface appearance and then they're going to be different people when the plastics Murphy is complete. Smurfit goes from being a Brunette to blonde. And she has a slightly more Decorative dress and she's wearing high heels so it doesn't really seem like he's done anything more than change her dress inherent shoes again sending what. I believe to be fairly bad message to the youth who actually into this. The problem is. She doesn't actually become cohesive as part of the society because she's still the only female but at that point at least from then she can be accepted as part of smurfs society so that was all completely useless information but should you ever want example of sexism in media of sort of the wrong message that media consent children and why we need people thinking about this stuff. I would say. Smurfit is one of the best examples. Because even when they fix ter- they may have very much just made her worse for those who are interested. I don't know if anyone would be an update on the net flicks versus the Chews Co Llc lawsuit where the choose your own adventure. Bookmakers are suing net flicks because they used their idea of a choose your own adventure. Style thing They used the expression. Choose your own adventure in their TV show. Bender snatch and Netflix is now saying that. Choose your own adventure. Basically not be copy written so they're statement is in contemporary parlance. Any situation that requires a series of unguided. Choices is referred to as a choose your own adventure now. This is why Google actually wants people to not say Google it and in North American English Xerox is actually used for photocopy so they will say Xerox it. And the problem is if a word becomes common usage you can no longer copyright that word even if that word refers to your company or has already been pre copy written if a word becomes like verb. You can no longer own the copyright on that word. You can't sue people for saying Xerox it because Xerox now in this situation is commonly spoken. My understanding is in the UK they actually use the term hoover so hoover the floor when they want a vacuum because hoover it has become so common. That's however first vacuuming so. This probably happens all over the world but Google changed to. Abc Actually Changed Their Company name and they actually want and they wanted people to stop saying Google it. But there's really almost at this point impossible to tell people to stop seeing Google it but I would bet they have stopped promoting Google as a service that way through media because there was one. Tv show. I think it was the reboot of Hawaii. Five O which was not a great show but I do remember one season. I think it was the second season that character started saying bing it and this is because the Microsoft's search engine bing had paid for product placement which is fine. I have no problem with product placement but it was really funny to see someone who's essentially supposed to be a computer expert. The kind of person who would never use being tell people that it was basically stupid not to bing things or bing it as an expression because that was not an expression the actress did pull it off though she made it. Sound almost natural. Despite the fact it wasn't at all so google doesn't want to say Google Microsoft really wants. You just say bigot. If being ever became the standard search engine they would then want you to stop. Because they don't want it to be something that they lose as a copyright but in a sad sad way I really want net flicks to win this court case so that I can then use. Choose your own adventure as an expression so that. I don't have to explain what I WANNA do with the story in a weird otherwise roundabout way because I've come up with some expressions and all of them are incredibly convoluted which is just how my brain works at. This point realized in this time. It's basically everyone's under house arrest all the topics I've been leaning towards have been just media base because basically just talk about something that I see requires actually minimal fought because when I started looking over my notes I realize the last episode was all about media. It was about Star Wars Star Trek stuff like that and then all the notes I made for this week we had the bit on the smurfs but also the notes I'm looking at right now is talking. About the movie The reboot of the Tomb Raider movie and how they have a bike messenger race into my view. If you've stooped so low that you have a Bike Messenger race in your movie. You've actually kind of run out of ideas. The only thing that's worse would be jet skis and boats for chase sequences so Bike Messenger races supposed to be exciting but people going through an urban environment very quickly on bikes not quite as visually stunning as it is to to experience one of the things. I've found that I really enjoy doing martial arts very rarely. Do I enjoy watching? Martial Arts especially. I practiced judo. I don't watch a lot of Judah. I'll watch highlight reels. But that's true of every sport that I can think of. I WanNa see the best moments. I don't want to sit through the drudgery of most of the Games so most ball oriented games. There's a lot of stuff in between that. I don't really care about there. Is that one moment where another human being just jumps over another human being or does something amazing with the moment of the ball. That's what I WANNA see. Playing those drudgery moments experiencing them firsthand is a totally different experience because they are intense. So I'm judo and we're just like locked in and trying to find balanced and stuff. I'm sure it looks like very little to nothing is happening but I'm working really hard. My opponents working really hard and we're working together and you feel that none of that translates through to a movie so when you think about racing through CD on a bicycle. I'm sure that is very exciting. To do watching it on the other hand not so much. So Bike Messenger races through urban environments. They need to be retired now. The Jet Ski. I've already complained about forget. I think I said see do which is one of the brands. Maybe that word got stuck in my head and I couldn't remember Jet Ski and actually told me sent me a message and it would just said jet ski you moron or something like that. Which was fair. I mean I was technically getting the word wrong but boat chases are the worst because what is a boat or a boat chase scene but really the cars. Don't turn very well so the only time of boat looks exciting. Is when it's going straight line and if you're chasing a boat that's going to straight line that makes it a little easier to shoot and probably hit so pretty much. Every boat chase would end when the two boats line up and the shooting begins. And you're hitting the book because it can turn but it's not gonNA turn very fast and then it's going to still be fairly easy to hit with whatever you're shooting at the boat with their also honestly comparatively speaking not particularly exciting to watch like you have boats. I'm trying to think this James Bond movie where there's a boat goes through sort of a crowded port and that came close but it would have been better as a car. Chase was one of those movies where they had an airplane chase a car chase in a boat chase and by the end. You're Kinda like why did I see all that because a lot of that seemed very pointless? Airplanes make a little more sense because they are going so fast they can go up and down and you can do things with them. You can't do with cars but there's nothing that a boat can do that. A car can't do look more exciting while doing it. And they can slide and they can turn corners and these are just things that if you are writing your fill if you're sitting down right now for some reason listening to this podcast while you are sketching out your first draft of your manuscript of your blockbuster action movie if you have a bike messenger race to show to try to demonstrate how physically capable your main character is who then ends up on a jet ski or in some kind of boat chase. You should probably just take that script and set it on fire and if it's digital and it's on a laptop you should just be safe in. Burn the laptop. The loss of the loss of the loss of podcast. The loss of PODCASTS. Hey sexy friend. He's making me bitch. Thank you for listening. Leave a text to a voice question or comment voice link dot FM slash veloce. Podcast you can find the podcast night. Younes stitcher a cast or go to villa see Peter dot com slash podcast sexy out Hamas. This is a rare thing to do but of course I okay start again and it's these kind of Khan.
Best Of: Banjo Star Bla Fleck / When Animals Break The Law
"This message comes from. Npr sponsor wise at weisan connects you with tutors and more than twelve thousand topics for personalized one on one lessons. Get twenty five dollars off your first three tutoring lessons by signing up at w. wise e. a. n. t. dot com slash. Npr from whyy in philadelphia. I'm terry gross with fresh air weekend. Today bela fleck one of the most famous banjo players in the world. He's taken that instrument out of its folk and bluegrass traditions. To play pretty much any kind of music you can imagine from jazz and pop to classical reggae and ragas but bluegrass is worry comes from and he's returned to it on his new album. My bluegrass heart his first bluegrass album in twenty years. Also what happens when animals become criminals at least in the eyes of humans. Somebody has to deal with bears. Who menace campsites indian elephants that trample crops and kill farmers and birds that flock and flightpaths near airports. We'll hear from science writer. Mary roach her. New book is called fuzz when nature breaks the law. This message comes from. npr sponsor. Samsung would the samsung galaxy z. Fold three five g you can schedule at it and build presentations in a snap or take notes with espn five. G connection and availability may vary check with carrier support for npr and the following message. Come from lending tree for more than twenty years. Lending tree has helped millions of customers. Simplify their finances with trusted education expert advice and comprehensive support with the lending tree app. You can see all your bank accounts in one place monitor your credit score track your budget and set financial goals. Download the free lending tree app now to find great rates and make smarter financial decisions. Terms conditions may apply an. Mls number one one three six fresh air's dave davies has today's first interview. I'll let him introduce it. When birds flock near airports and get sucked into jet engines or when deer run onto highways and cause car accidents or when bears wander into towns and campsites food remains are plentiful they cause problems for us in all these cases of course the animals are just following their instincts. They fly they run. They forage for food. They seek mates but when they interfere with our way of life and break our rules. Some humans often people in ranger hats and uniforms or lab coats have to try and figure out something to do about it. Our guest science writer. Mary roach has a new book about the many conflicts between humans and animals including bears elephants monkeys mice and how different societies try and deal with them. Roach has a way of handling sometimes uncomfortable subjects with wisdom and wit among her six bestselling. Books are stiff. The curious lives of human cadavers and gulp adventures on the elementary canal. That book about what happens in the human digestive system from top to bottom brought her fresh air in two thousand thirteen. She's back to talk about her new book called fuzz when nature breaks the law. Mary roach welcome back to fresh air. Oh thank you so much. You know anybody who's owned a cat is aware of this conflict between natural instincts and rules. We try to impose. What got you interested in this question. While i wish i had a tidy origin story. But what happened. Was i was flailing around looking for a book topic as happens every few years and i got interested in the forensics of wildlife crime not when the animals are the quote unquote criminals but when the animals the victims so i was interested in the forensics of animal trafficking specifically woman who published a guide for wildlife law enforcement on how to distinguish real versus fake tiger penis that is dried which is sold medicinally. And i thought that's kind of a bizarre expertise. And i spoke to her and i kinda got interested in wildlife forensics. Unfortunately i wasn't allowed to tag along any open cases. And i always like to kind of be on the scene in my books and so that was a dead end but as often happens it morphed into a related topic what if the animals were the perpetrators of these crimes and i'm using crimes loosely. There obviously animals as you said following their instinct. But i got interested in this field. Human wildlife conflict in lo and behold it became a book and you travel many continents researching and i gotta say it is a fun read. You have a lovely touch with this stuff. You you begin by telling us of a case in the seventeenth century of some towns in italy who undertook legal action against caterpillars that were munching on crops and gardens actually issuing a summons for the caterpillars to show up and appear in court. You this actually happened. This actually happened. This is from one thousand. Nine hundred. Six book called the criminal prosecution and capital punishment of animals. And i initially thought. Because it's so bizarre i thought. Is this an elaborate hoax. But it's very well documented and the individual who wrote it as a scholar and a linguist and the has several appendices that have the legal documents in the various languages of origin. Many of them latin release. It is real. It is for real. The caterpillars. needless to say did not show up in court that day but the magistrates. Who was in charge went ahead with some legal proceedings and decided. Well they'll be. There will be alternate land set aside for the caterpillars and took some time to do by that time. of course. The caterpillars had pup- painted. We're no longer eating the crops and everybody went away happy and the but the book is. It's fascinating because there were the in the appendix they'll be on the expense report filed by the bailiff who kept the pig in prison the expenses of keeping the pig in prison awaiting trial for killing a child that there was a trial. The pig was executed. Just kind of amazing which led me to think okay the legal system probably not the best way to deal with these animal human conflicts. Like let's see what science might bring to bear right and what's fascinating is in the seventeenth century at. There wasn't a lot of time to spare frivolity. I think what was the point of issuing a summons for caterpillars or worked or bringing criminal charge against a pig well in the case of the caterpillars and a lot of the wildlife. The pig is is. I think that that's a little different. Because it's it's somebody's pig so that that's kind of a property interest. Yeah yes pig is property but wild animals are the province of the state so the way that the author explained it was that this was a way for these magistrates these leaders to say we are so powerful that we control even nature. We can resolve these problems because we have ultimate dominion over nature and over you the population and we will step in and be all powerful and that was his interpretation whether or not. That's the answer. I don't know but that was what made a certain amount of sense because otherwise it kind of makes no sense the flag in this battle you spend time with people who investigate cases of where hikers or campers might have been attacked fatally attacked by animals. What sort of things did you learn to look at. I mean what did you want to find. An in the bodies there are a lot of fascinating similarities with a crime scene. Where a human has killed another human In other words the scene of the crime. If you will is is taped off the officers come in. They secure the scene there gathering evidence putting the little evidence flags down. Have to do it very carefully. Because there may be a bear or cougar in the region because these animals tend to cash their victim and hang around and come back and feet again so they come in very carefully and well armed but are gathering evidence and the first thing that they're having to figure out is and this is not something that cops on. Csi would do. The first thing they made a figure out is what species were killed. This person was a human. Was it a cougar was a wolf. Was it a bear. And so we learned all the kind of hallmark telltale signs of a bear attack versus cougar attack. And they kill very differently and for different reasons so we learned all of that. And then you move on to actually identifying the individual and this was amazing to me because you have a suspect in other words if you trapped an animal on the scene say a bear. You would do you if you were. The predator attacks specialist would look at the dna of the animal versus the dna of the victim. And you'd be establishing a link. The link wasn't there. The suspect is released so some of these barriers that there were up in canada where to bears for trapped and they were not the right there and they were let go so it is has these fascinating overlaps with the The human jurisprudence system. Yeah this is fascinating. Because you know we're we're not gonna hire the baer lawyer go to court. I mean what do you do when you have. Positively identified that yes. This bear attacked a person. Bear a bear in this country and in canada bear that attacks and kills a person has destroyed but the point is to not destroy the wrong bear tonight. Just shoot yeah. We saw one on on the scene and we shot at it and killed it. So there's it's important to get the right. And i guess the point being a bear that attacks wants of human wants is going to attack again and one that hasn't affected human may not so. Yeah there's no reason to we being the public in general Doesn't want an animal destroyed an especially a bear doesn't want to bear destroyed for no reason so there and that's that's lovely. I didn't necessarily expect that all that work goes toward finding the right creature. Making sure that you're not destroying an animal without any evidence that that animal committed the crime quote unquote crime so apart from in identifying individual bears or cougars that may have have harmed a human. There's this general problem of bears encroaching upon civilization which is of course. I really off an a a reflection of civilization infringing upon bears habitats. But you you visited aspen colorado. I think it was where and talk to people on Who have to try and prevent bears from coming into towns and raiding garbage cans It was remarkable. How resourceful bears could be and discriminating in there. That are their pillaging of homes. Garages wasn't it was it was there was a One of the women who investigates these things and tries to prevent them She's actually resort. Snowmass who she said that the bears of pitkin county They prefer the premium ice cream brands. They will not touch western family ice cream. Which is i guess. The budget brand. They're just something she'd noticed. They are discriminating. They the the parks wildlife guy that i was traveling around with on a there was a a bear break in and we went to the house and he was talking about. How first of all. French door handles. The building code forbids those. Because it's so easy for bear to just push down and push in anybody anybody with a park and do that So those you're not supposed to use those even a hollow doorknob because the bears can crush that. Get a grip with their teeth. Crush it and turn it then. Obviously automatically opening doors are a problem. There are bears that walk into ski resorts and hotels just through the automatic door make makes it very easy. So they're very very resourceful and sometimes very delicate in their depredations. He said this officer told me that the they'll sometimes see a bears reached in taken out a carton of eggs and set it aside. There was one case where a bear unwrapped hershey's kiss and aided. This is hard for me to believe this guy would know. They'll pull a door off its frame but instead of knocking throwing over the deck. They'll just lean it against the wall next to the frame of the door so sometimes they're surprisingly a delicate in there. They'll come into a house on the lower floor. Go upstairs through the living room to the kitchen. Not knock anything over. Just go straight to the fridge. Open it up. Take out what they want. And then go. If you're just joining us we're listening to the interview. Fresh air's davies recorded with science writer. Mary roach author of the new book fuzz. When nature breaks the law will hear more of the interview after a break and banjo player. Bela fleck will talk about. How a kid from new york city fell in love with the banjo. I'm terry gross. And this is fresh. Air weaken support for this podcast and the following message come from. At and t. If they're our friends and family members you haven't talked to in a while. Don't worry it's never too late to reconnect to help. At and t. is offering deals on the latest smartphones. It's not complicated. Everyone deserves something new so. At and t. is giving new and existing customers. Their best deals on every smartphone. Even the latest ones restrictions and exceptions may apply visit. Att dot com for details. Let's get back to dave davies interview with science writer. Mary roach her. New book deals with conflicts between humans and animals like bears cougars elephants monkeys deer and others plus a few plants. It's called fuzz when nature breaks the law you to india where elephants can be a problem. Hundreds of people a year in india are killed by elephants. I mean i guess this is as is so often. The case caused in part by elephant habitat being restricted as you know as human civilization advances is is there a typical way that People are killed by elephants. Yes there is like you said. Their land is being encroached upon india's a very populous country and there have been military bases roads and communities of refugees and that part of india where the elephants roam the elephant corridor has become broken up and so these elephants sometimes get stuck. They call them pocketed elephants which is a term. I loved picture an elephant in a pocket. There pocketed elephants. So they're they're trapped in this patch of land elephants. There are social animals. They move around in groups and they eat a lot of food. They're very big animals so they start running out of food and they tend to look to farmers fields. So you're imagine you're a villager and you've put the crops in the starting to be ready to harvest in this group of elephants comes in and first of all tramples a lot of it and also starts to eat your bounty there. That's that's an upsetting thing. It often happens at night. So you've got people from the village running out maybe with fire on a stick or loud noises just trying to scare them off in a way. That's quite chaotic. And so you have. Elephants freaked out and panicked. And you have people running around and screaming in the darken as my mother liked to say. Somebody's gonna get hurt and that is how that happens frequently. The elephant elephants are not praying on people. They're not stocking them and killing them but they're large and you just need to get knocked over or stepped on and you can be killed so that is often the way it goes down. It's interesting that you're right that an abbreviation is a problem with farmers who made try and run elephants off but also with the elephants themselves. He elephants like to drink. This is something else that surprised me about elephants. They particularly go after. There's a homebrew kind of a fermented drink. Called hara h. a. r. i. And elephants enjoy that very much and it's quite fragrant so they can smell it inside a home so people will try to bring it inside. You know thinking to keep it safe from the elephants which is a very bad idea because elephant can very easily take down the wall of the structure to get at this for mended drink and elephants. Would they get drunk there for the most part. Not a mean drunk but sometimes if it's a if it's a male elephant in must which is kind of a period of hormonal tumult you don't wanna be around a a drunk male elephant in must because they can be very aggressive otherwise they tend to kind of wander off and wrap their trunk around themselves. One study reported and sleep it off when they're drunk drunk you some of the most colorful stories in this book and fall off. This is also in india the rhesus macaque monkeys and my saying this properly These cute plentiful monkeys. I mean really plentiful than some parts of india What kind of problems that create. Well they're very mischievous and they will grab things from people they kind of do this amazing maneuver where they will stick up. And grab your sunglasses or your cell phone. As far as i know monkeys they are not using the cellphone. They are holding it hostage basically and people know that if you approach them with a piece of fruit or treat of some kind the monkey will take that fruit and hand you back your sunglasses or your cell phone or your keys. Whatever you had in your hand so they they're quite slick these monkeys their spin. Yeah the monkey reckitt so so. There was a kind of a bizarre epidemic of people falling to their deaths from balconies because macaques and they usually in a group a troop that they come down from the roof and they jump onto a balcony. The person is startled or tries to keep the keep them from getting into the house. The apartment you know through the window either. They lose their footing and fall or the monkeys. Push them. it's kind of unclear but multiple. There's something like five deaths of people falling off balconies because monkeys had jumped down onto the balcony in an effort to get into the apartment and ransack it for food. So they're they're not just pesky they're actually in some cases killing but they are. They are a little unnerving. I was mugged by a macaque while i was there. And it is a little unnerving you were mugged by macaque. How did this happen. I was kind of asking for it. I walked up this trail. Where i knew there were a lot of macaques and i walked up holding a bag of bananas. I just wanted to see what would happen. I was curious. Nothing happened for a while. And i'm walking along and suddenly this little head pops up from behind a boulder and i was like there is a kind of like the bandits waiting for the stagecoach. So this head pops up and this monkey steps into my pass. And i stop and i'm like okay. This is it. But then meanwhile there's been one behind me on the other side runs darts out into the trail and grabs the bag and takes off and i don't know if they were a team like all distract her and you grab the bananas. I don't know if that's what was going on or whether they were competing bandits. But anyway i got. I got mugged. You were relieved quickly. One of the interesting things about this is that these are in cities and villages where these monkeys roam in bands and go to find food and they're probably more likely to be in places where a affluent people live because there's more vegetation trees around their apartments right yes What are some of the things that more affluent people do to deal with this issue They will hire what's called a monkey. Walla was somebody who has a longer a is a bigger berlinger monkey that is customary for macaques so the will sometimes higher a guy who just patrols the langer but this is actually illegal. Now because it's a against the wildlife protection act is not fair to the langer's i wanna just set the picture. This is on a leash right right so it's kind of like you have your muscle and you're an and you have somebody who's walking around with langer on a leash and does it do the trick. I mean it is quite effective. But now they have to do it surreptitiously and the the woman that i spoke to. She's an attorney there who works in the area of trying to get the city to do something about monkeys should. She lives in an affluent community. And she she said she goes to the same club or prime minister. Modi goes and the monkeys are getting in the swimming pool. She said they've been in the halls of parliament. They come into the courts and they're they're all over. Tell the story about the hospital them coming into the hospital pulling out the iv's this this is amazing. This attorney told me a story of macaque that would go into the all all india medical institute. I believe it was called and run into rooms and pull out the. Iv somebody was getting glucose a glucose drip and suck on the needle like it was a popsicle sort of kind of an amazing stunt for a monkey their inventive the. But the going back to what i wanted to mention. It's illegal to use now the langer's but some some people will do it illegally but they'll also you can hire somebody to go around and have the language just urinate on the home like the smell of urine and there was this great quote. I think it was in the times the new york times the guy saying i have sixty five languages. Urinating on prominent homes is. What's business the languor p guy. Yeah exactly the The city itself new delhi trained some men to impersonate languor. Not in a costume. Although some media said that they were gonna cost him they were very adept at doing. The calls of langer's which would scare the macaques away so they would wander through these affluent neighborhoods making cat calls. There's been a lot of interesting and creative efforts. We'll mary roach. Thanks so much for speaking with us again. Oh my pleasure. Thank you so much. Mary roach is a science writer. Her new book is called fuzz. When nature breaks the law. She spoke with fresh. Air's davies. our next interview is with world renowned banjo player. Bela fleck. He spoke with our producer. Sam brigger here's sam. It's not easy to find out. Just how many grammy awards bail. Fluck is one. wikipedia says fourteen. Some articles say sixteen. His own website puts the count at fifteen at some point. It doesn't really matter it. Whatever number. Bela fleck is by far the most famous and celebrate a banjo player on the planet. He has a new album of instrumentals his first bluegrass album. In twenty years. It's called my bluegrass heart and it's dedicated to two of his musical heroes and collaborators. The died in the last year pianist. Chick corea and singer guitarist. Tony rice bail. Flat has recorded over fifty of his own albums over the years with all sorts of groups including his mainstay band. Bela fleck in the flesh. Tones new grass revival and with his wife abigail washburne. Who's also an amazing banjo player. I spoke with bela fleck at the end of last month from his home studio and he was gracious enough to bring along his banjo before we get to the conversation. Let's hear the lead track for my bluegrass heart. This is vertigo. That's vertigo from bail. Affleck's new album my bluegrass heart bailiff lake. Welcome to fresh air. Oh it's so nice to be here. Thanks for having me. Do you remember the first time that you were struck by the sound of a banjo. Yes i band to. Experience for me was the beverly hillbillies and i was somewhere around five years old. Maybe younger and i was at my grandparents house in queens and they let us watch. Tv and on comes the beverly hillbillies and there's the sound of earl scruggs banjo which has Has turned a lot of us into band players. Just that sound you know. He had that power over an unactivated banjo player to to switch a switch. The switch on and once you've heard him play you or like zombie looking for a banjo and trying to figure out how to play but Yeah that was the thing. And i didn't know what it was a new york city kid. I had nothing to do with bluegrass or country. Music and really. I wasn't really interested in the route. See folksy side of it. It was just the sound of that dang banjo. I mean. holy cow earl scruggs was just such a force and it was it's earthy is it's incredibly Virtuosic all at the same time. I always think of him as like a high tech primitive. So earl scruggs. And beverly hillbillies is your the beatles on the television show. It was in. The beatles also had a big impact on me too and being a new yorker although i always felt like an outsider to bluegrass like to the real bluegrass which is kinda why i wanted to move to kentucky and why wanted to play with people like tony. Rice and sam bush and jerry. Douglas people who who came from there. I wanted to be accepted. I think in know by some of those people as a yankee banjo player. Easiest thing to pull off yeah. The first time. I heard a banjo released realized that i was listening to abandon. Was on one of steve martin's comedy albums where he says. It's impossible to be sad while playing the banjo and even sad songs sound happy. And he said that if nixon had had a banjo would've say but i i know people who otherwise have great taste in music but for some reason just can't stand the banjo. You've you must have reflected upon that over the years and why that is. Do you think it's the actual sound of the instrument or some sort of cultural stigma. Well i do agree with you first of all. I think there are banjo. People who just tend to like banjo or when they hear it it switches something on in them whether they learned to play it or not as switches on something that you know dopamine something you like it you know and then there are people who are just they just hate its guts and i think some of them like like you suggesting some of them. It's because of all of the you know the deliverance movie or he haw get stupid you know. They don't know the true history of the instrument. They don't really understand that. It comes from africa and that it was brought over by the slaves that it played a role in early days of jazz that they were banjo. Orchestras in the late. Eighteen hundred it was. It was the guitar before there was a guitar and our continent so Part of it is ignorance and some of it may display innate. Just like that part of me that got switched on something. Switches them off. Have you felt like you've had to be the ambassador for the banjo at certain points in your life where you had to sort of prove how great an instrument was and how versatile it could be. Yeah i've got a little bit of a chip on my shoulder That it's a lot more than people. allow it to be in their perception. And and i guess you could say. I've benefited from that. Because when i when. I play something like a classical piece or play with someone like chick corea where they don't expect to hear a banjo. An orchestra concerto for instance. They're surprised they don't expect it to be good. They expected to be bad. And so i don't have to be that good to get them to change their perception. You just have to be a little better than than their perception. Just don't i just can't suck so you've said you've dedicated this album to your musical friends that died in the last year corea and tony rice in the liner notes. You say that you didn't record a bluegrass album for twenty years because of tony rice and for people who don't know who tony rices He was a guitarist and singer whose influence and bluegrass is. Kind of like. Charlie parker's influence on jazz in bluegrass before tony rice period ended after tony rice. But he hasn't been singing for longtime he had vocal this phony a- and he hadn't been playing because of arthritis. So why was tony rice keeping you from recording a bluegrass album. One of the amazing things about tony. Rice was his rhythm playing especially for banjo players. Like if tony rice was playing guitar you could play about twenty maybe thirty percent better than you ever could in the rest of your life and so i was addicted to that and once you put tony rice with sam bush all of a sudden you had rhythm section from god well let. Let's hear a session where you did get to play with tony rice. This is from tony. Rice's nineteen eighty-four album cold on the shoulder and this is the leading track from that. It's a song by gordon lightfoot. Let's hear a little bit of you and we can hear. Bela fleck and sam. Bush is playing on this twos right bill. That's right okay. Let's hear a little bit of us All you need is all you need is time time. The baby been. Don't be rude but it did. The test came and rightback. It's on the shoulder man. You know that we did a little pick it around town. What you you better be strong you. Love belongs to cold shoulder allah all we need is. That's the title track from tony rice's album cold on the shoulder featuring our guest. Bela fleck on banjo. We're listening to the interview producer. Sam brigger recorded with. Bela fleck is new. Album is called my bluegrass hart. We'll hear more of the interview after break. This is fresh air weekend support for this podcast and the following message come from marcus by goldman sachs. Who believes that you can money. Marcus invest now offers digitally managed portfolios backed by over one hundred fifty years financial experience. Find out more about their digitally managed folios as well as their other products. Today at marcus dot com brokerage advisory services by goldman sachs and co llc members sipc investments involve risk and may lose value support for this podcast and the following message. Come from at and t. if they're are friends and family members you haven't talked to in a while. Don't worry it's never too late to reconnect to help. At and t. is offering deals on the latest smartphones. It's not complicated. Everyone deserves something new so. At is giving new and existing customers. Their best deals on every smartphone. Even the latest ones restrictions and exceptions may apply visit. Att dot com for details this back to the interview. Our producer sam. Berger recorded with banjo player. Bela fleck is new album. My bluegrass heart is his first bluegrass album in twenty years. Bilas talk a little bit about your early years. You grew up in new york city. Can you tell us a little bit about your family and your neighborhood. I'm sure i grew up on on one hundred street in west end avenue. It was a three and a half room apartment. I think it costs one hundred twenty dollars. A month my mother was a schoolteacher Elementary school kindergarten and Yeah that was my my grandparents lived jewish live in In queens my grandfather had a car wash business. A lot of people assume that you have gary routes because of your first name but Your name is bella because your father named after the composer. Bela bartok was your father musician. Yes my father. Well i would say he was a wannabe music. He wanted to be an opera singer. And i think he studied in europe but it didn't work out for him and he ended up moving into being scholar. Dead languages. norsk things like that college professor. But you didn't know him growing up that's right. I didn't know my father. Till i was in my forties or so i i never even met him and He and my mother split up. When i was somewhere between one and two and i have an older brother as well so but anyway my father named both of us after composers and i finally did get some of that. Classical influence from my stepfather was a wonderful fella named joe palladino. He played the cello and so very often. I would hear classical string quartet music on sundays at our house. You know at our apartment. Bela tough name to have as a kid. Bela got better. It wasn't it wasn't awesome in the beginning but as it went on as life went on i sorta liked having a name that was different from other people and most people didn't know how to And they could say it if you told them how to say it but they didn't If you if they've read they would call me bella bella. I didn't really like that. But bela was pretty cool. So i think your grandfather your first banjo. How old were you. I was fifteen. I had been playing some guitar kind of hacked guitar. I liked it. But i wasn't fired up as they say but he knew i like the guitar and so i went up to peekskill new york where he lived in those years about an hour north of the city on a train. And when i got up. This was the weekend before. I started high school. He had this bandeau he had gotten it at a garage sale. Just cheap beater banjo and he said here. I know you like the guitar. Maybe a like this and he handed it to me. And i hadn't really been that vocal public about the fact that i was in love with the banjo because for one thing. I didn't think anybody could actually play it. It had to be impossible. What i could hear so all of a sudden he hands me what i've been wanting my whole life and puts it in my aunt. Hey maybe you'd like this. And i was just blown away. I couldn't believe it. And i just kept trying to play it and i couldn't get in tune but on that sunday we took the train back to the city and i met a fella on the train. Who said is that a five string said. Yeah he said you know how to tune it. And i said no and he tuned it up for me and gave me like a first banjo lesson and the next day i started high school at music art high school. Which is you know the fame school so as as we said earlier your father left your family before you even really knew him and you had no contact with them but you said you did beat them again it in your forties. Was it easy to track him down. I was on a oh tour. With my teacher. Tony tricia abandoned teacher. And we were passing through syracuse. And he mentioned that he was you know he was kind of sad. His father had passed away that year in syracuse. And he said hey. What's the deal with your father. And i started explaining it to him and he said well. Where does he live. And i said he's somewhere in the dc area and he said well we're going to dc and we were on our way to play there the next day and he said would you like to go try and find him and tony actually stimulated me to do it. you know. i don't know if i would have had the nerve without him. But i said yeah and we found an address and we went to his place. He wasn't there we asked the neighbor. They said oh. We teaches over at the university of maryland so We drove to the university. We asked where he taught found class. I looked in the window of the class. He was teaching was a professor and there was. I'd never seen him before and it was. It was a crazy day All the students lined up at the end of the class to hand in papers. And i got on the end of the line and walked up him today. I am bela. Well what was what was his reaction. Oh well this is a surprise. He was very formal and he said well in the case of an acrimonious split. I thought it was best to to to not be touched but You appear to be all grown up now and he agreed that we would meet We would meet next time. I came to town. He wanted a heads up. And that's what happened. So i got to know him of it and Spent some time with him and he came some shows was he contracted all about leaving. There is one point where he said you know. I don't think i'm that good a person or something like that. And i said look you. Don't you don't have to feel that way. You know it wasn't like i was Forgiving him i just i. I wasn't really there for that. Just wanted to know you know. It's kinda like you wanna know who darth vader is. He had too much power in my life. Because i didn't know who he was and that sort of feeling those feelings were complicated and i wanted to make him into a real person. And that's why. I wanted to meet him. We didn't have to suddenly become pals and had a friendly enough Formerly friendly type relationship from then on but it wasn't like he suddenly turned into my father. You have a close relationship with your stepfather. My stepfather joe palladino. He was my real father in every in every way except biological but at least the mystery was solved. I knew who he was. He knew who i was. And there was some contact and it just took a lot of this sort of inflammation out of the situation for me when you looked through the window of that classroom would that give you a shock relic like. That's me in in twenty years. Like i remember looking at him and seeing his ear and going. That's my ear. You know i see that ear. And then when i walked up on the line to see him i looked at his hand. It was like. That's my thumb. I'm used to looking at my thumb. Because i play the banjo with my thumb and there was another person And it was more like look more like my thumb than my older brothers thumb for instance for some reason. I thought those were the things. I i felt right at the moment. It was very charged. Moment as you can imagine but You know what happened. Covered really put the brakes on the life of a touring musician. But i was just wondering if kovic made you sort of reevaluate your life and that sort of family work balance and if you'd just reconsidered how you want to be a musician After covert yeah. I mean i. I guess what i discovered during the kobe. Time is that. If i don't work on my music and i don't have some time to be involved with the music i get a little bit crazy and You know there's a temptation to think that you could just put it away and just you know take that time and enjoy just being with your family and that is not a primary driver of who you are but you know i discovered it actually is and that if i don't have a certain amount of time playing the banjo or working on the music i just i just not very happy So i was able to do that. You know able to go downstairs downstairs in my studio where i am right now. I had the whole all the rough tracks from my bluegrass heart to work on. So i could go downstairs and play with you know. Hang out with billy strings and chris lillian sam bush and jerry douglas and all of these cats you know on the speakers our or i could go work on the. You know the chick corea do stuff that we had going on and be hanging out with chick and giving him a call. Hey what do you think it is so all these things You know in the can that needed to be finished. And so i just spent a lotta time downstairs and the main loss was that i just wasn't play in very much and that's the hardest thing coming back. Is that a couple of years almost now. I guess not that long but a year and a half of not playing very much at my age sixty three. Now it's hard to come back from. So i'm really having to bust my butt to get my chops back up to where i want them to be for the tour. Well i wanted to ask you about that. He said you're sixty three and the way you play the banjo. It seems like it's very demanding of just. Your physical ability like your. Your fingers are moving. You have to be very precise as you get older that gets harder. I was just wondering projecting forward like what how you imagine. Your relationship with the banjo is going to change like if you if at some point you can't play those super fast technical songs anymore. You going to continue to play things but concentrate on slower things or just work on melodic things like. Have you thought about that much. Yeah i have thought about it a lot. And i'm already starting to try to make the necessary adjustments. I remember for many many years. Bill monroe as he was getting quite a bit older. He insisted on singing the songs in the original keys that he this message comes from. Npr sponsor samsung with the samsung galaxy. Z fold three five g. You can schedule at it and build presentations in a snap or take notes with the spn. Five g connection and availability may vary check with carrier.