7 Burst results for "Cindy Carlson"

"cindy carlson" Discussed on 20/20

20/20

05:27 min | 5 months ago

"cindy carlson" Discussed on 20/20

"Feel like walking. Rally he even said. I feel like you're setting up how? Do, you want to go through my Kirk Carlson I. Ever made any such mission, so we're kind of like taken back. Like what did he really tell us? What's going on here? I couldn't get him to confess to the same exact thing that he had confessed. Today's before you can hear the Cindy Carlson. Pressing, her husband Carl over and over again. She doesn't give up as the questions become more aggressive. Coral appears to make halfway admission. You! took. Your. told me that they didn't set it up that way, but when you were in, you saw opportunity. After Opportunity. Very strange word for us about a son's death. I would find it very unusual that apparently it would be fair to the death of their is an opportunity. For right now I know I. I'm just here. Hard. No I mean you just just. Make. Saliva. Touching the ground is just. Oh now I have my coffee. Then, I mean, did he? Learn, how? It's not clear cut and it's not definitive it's. By no means that we think this was a slam dunk I I'll be in touch with you. All right bye. So at that point, we knew we're going to be bringing them in for an interview. And they asked him to come in for questioning, they subbed. You know what that says about. You WanNa talk about my wife and dead saw. This isn't a simple interview. Compassionate. We all know.

Cindy Carlson Kirk Carlson Carl
"cindy carlson" Discussed on 20/20

20/20

04:58 min | 5 months ago

"cindy carlson" Discussed on 20/20

"She was concerned enough that she hires a private detective to to look into it it self-preservation. She probably was concerned for her life when she realized that there was a policy on her. A private investigator started digging in finding out. I would be worth one point two million. To Carl if I was dead one night. I had called my cousin and told her my fierce. I think curl might be Khalil by. She said why would Karl Levi? There's nothing for him to gain from that I said. Guests are was gained seven hundred thousand dollars. Cindy's cousin Jackie and called in a concern that she had to the police. A phone call. What are you told those asked? If if we didn't investigated an accident involving Levi Carlson's death and I looked it up. This family members Gusman suspicions concerned that things just aren't ended up. You know wherever Carl goes. Tragedy takes place and financial payoffs. Follow suit. Once we started looking into prior incidents. That was the first indication of something wasn't right here so as investigators start to look into Carl Carlson's past. You know it doesn't take them long to to see what is a frightening pattern that dates back decades. The first thing that came up was a firefighter from nineteen six was a brand new Mustang purchased by Carl Carlson at ten thousand dollars insurance on it, and it burned up his driveway, according to the report, we heard. Nothing in the trump nothing a glove box. The car just burned up and. It church took care of the payment and Got Monitor. Players, another one of those incidental tragedies, one evening in two thousand and two, I was asleep. And Carlson Upright in bed. And looked out the window. and Said on the Barnes on fire. I knew there were horses in there. There was our prize Belgian mayor. And two babies. Those devastating to see the barn, burning down, which is part of our family's history, and then also to see the loss of these horses that we're conveniently. Just put it. In the barn. One. Hundred fifteen thousand dollars Carl's paid out on this. Burn in the horses. Can we go one more time? Tragedy and a Pale. I call it blood money. He got an insurance policy from my daughter. He got another insurance policy when he had A. Firm, down with expensive courses in your seemed like every couple of years, something was burning. You know so I mean I feel like we kinda new and just expect it. We choose to reach out to Cindy Carlson to further investigation. First thing she said was. Thank God. You called when you asked her to help you out. She said yes she agreed. And put a wire. Walking into. Traffic! I thought maybe I can get him to confess. That was Michael. Of Carl did this she wanted to I'm terrified. I'm thinking. Oh, my Gosh, my.

Carl Carlson Cindy Carlson Levi Carlson Carlson Upright Karl Levi investigator Khalil Mustang Jackie Barnes Michael A. Firm
"cindy carlson" Discussed on Dateline NBC

Dateline NBC

04:57 min | 8 months ago

"cindy carlson" Discussed on Dateline NBC

"Cindy. Carlson had a plan. She decided to secretly record a conversation with her estranged husband. Carl wearing a small voice recorder tucked under her Bra. She was hoping she could get him to confess. Burning down the family barn and killing all their horses and I just started telling him that I was considering getting back together with him. But I couldn't even consider it unless he started telling me the truth of Saints said he did Dern our marriage that he lied about and he Said to me as sounds like you want me to say that I hit something to do with Levi's death while at that moment I knew that we skipped right over the barn fire. I might be able to get him to confess about Levi. She asked him what happened inside the barn. The Day Levi died now I just kept talking to them and I'm at one point. He got To where he said that the truck was checked up. I know I asked him. So did you push the truck or was it hard to push? And he said No. It wasn't was that a confession. Cindy felt like it was. She took the recording to the police. But it was inaudible. Still detective. Clear was intrigued and asked her to do it again. I request. She agreed to be wired up to do a second interview under controlled circumstances. So Cindy put on the wire and went to meet Carl. This is a potentially dangerous situation. You're walking into are. Are you scared? I was actually Cam because I knew that Karl believed my story of wanting to get back together. Abigail restaurant near Seneca falls would be the meeting place it was mid November two thousand twelve. You had undercover officers in the restaurant. Four were they. Diners were they. Waiters diners. The detectives needed Cindy to get Karl to repeat. What she said was his confession to leave is murder but when she started grilling him again. Carl became suspicious Artemis Walkman. You can imagine what I had to convince them. That wasn't a trap. I offered for him to check my purse. It works and she got him back on the subject that day in two thousand eight. I asked you travel in person I said but I I took piano and that is exactly what you told me that. Set it up that way but when you were in you opportunity after this exchange crystallized John Clear suspicions about Carl Carlson. I felt I understood him to a degree. This is someone who doesn't think like we do. They still had no confession but detectives believe they had enough to bring him in for questioning. It was the moment of truth if Carl. Carlson refused to speak or if he called aware the case could evaporate but Carson wanted to talk. I mean I work multiple jobs and stuff like that. I worked Lhasa. I mean we were talking about his favorite subject. Police quickly steered Carl. To leave is death. He repeated what he told police. In two thousand eight he found Levi debt after returning home from the funeral. And and you know then. We went to the hospital. I loved trump but then Carl let something slip a possible motive. You don't kill your son you don't visit. We'll we'll tell you about money. What are you talking about? The detectives knew they were on the right track. There's not a conscience of play to there's nine empathy to play. What are what are we play to? What does he have while he has an ego? And it's a big one so that's the strategy that we shift to. Which is I gave them a lot of sympathy and a lot of attention. We know that you were in the air force and we all have to do because I respect you for that. Are you proud of the time spent? I think you should be proud of that. And I know that when you read their like anybody does not train. You probably retraining to make life deficit right. I think you just made more when when it came to leave. I think there was a problem. And you did what we're trained. What PROGRAMS DO I don't I wasn't..

Carl Levi Cindy Cindy. Carlson murder John Clear Karl Lhasa Seneca falls Cam Carson
"cindy carlson" Discussed on The Amateur Traveler Podcast

The Amateur Traveler Podcast

18:13 min | 1 year ago

"cindy carlson" Discussed on The Amateur Traveler Podcast

"Down the road to tortilla flat. Which is a either restored revived ghost town or a rebuilt completely rebuilt. Ghost town, the original tortilla, flat mostly burned down many many many years ago, they have a little restaurant out there. There's a teensy tiny museum. The restaurant is actually fairly good. It's really good. But it's very western themed, you know, saddles for barstools, and that sort of thing it's an interesting quirky place with decent food makes a really good stop for either before or after your cruise when you go there. It's about a half day trip to go out do the cruise. Have a meal, it tortilla flats and dry back for the more adventurous, the fun part of the road starts after tortilla flat. Skip the cruise unless you want a really long day, but you could do both once you pass tortilla flat. You you get to a hill. When you go down the hill the road turns dirt, it's basically the same unpaved road. It was in nineteen thirty six when it was last used as a the main highway between Apache junction, we'll between Phoenix and Payson and you are stepping back in time. It's one lane in some places. If you make it through fish creek through the steep descent than the twist the blind, the one lane blind curbs and that area than the rest of the road is pretty drivable. Always check the weather before you go to make sure the road isn't in terrible shape or washed out from Raines was recently graded the last time we were out there. There are some guardrails there are a lot of guardrails because it's a historic road. The apparently can't do much to widen it or improve. It, but that's part of the adventure. It's a stunning drive. It's a dusty drive. There are some some places to stop where you can admire. The senior admire the wealth lowers there's actually nother lake further down Apache lake. There's a little resort marina down there. When you get to the end of the road. There's a big dam area which creates another lake Roosevelt lake which is a big recreation area. And once you get all the way to the end in. It's only about twenty five miles on the unpaved portion, but plan at least an hour or more to drive that part. You cannot drive it over about thirty miles an hour, most of it. And some of it is a lot slower than that. You don't need a high clearance vehicle most of the time, it's not a bad idea. But you can drive it most of the time in a sedan without any problem. But for the adventurous drivers, it's a gorgeous drive when you get to the end, you can stop and take a break at Roosevelt lake, and then you either can go back the way you came or. There's a state highway that runs through the it's the tunnel. National forests, it's a lovely area. Partly desert, partly forested and takes you back down south to down in globe and coming across the globe and superior. There's another botanical garden down there that spectacular. If you want to do some more flowers if you're there and flower season can tell my thing is flour season. So flower season would be early spring starting in varies by year. But usually starting late February, Pat, the poppies sometimes mid February. But March is really marching into early April is usually when the flowers and this year offensive your listeners are thinking about going. This should be a great year for flowers. They've had a lot of rain this winter should be really really beautiful through most of it's already the starting to bloom even through all March should be really really nice the weather spoonful March is the high season, and we'll get into that in a little bit. Because there's a reason why it's the high season if the high part of the high season actually the winter is the high season go ahead. You're you're talking about flowers though, that Dr gives you some spectacular flowers the hallway when you come down in when you get down. It's Boyce Thompson arboretum down in superior, which is again at far far southeastern edge of the the Phoenix metro area. It's really I would. Didn't consider it part of the Phoenix metro area. But technically it actually is. It says spectacular drive in that garden is spectacular to Seoul. That's nice. It'd be a full day at a someone wants to do something. Like that gets you out of town and let get you out into the desert, which is sort of nice. If you're in spending all of your time right in the Phoenix area. That's only five days. There's other things you could do I did not mention tally Essen, which is Frank. Lloyd, Wright's grew dimension that Yuka. Winter residents. It's a very interesting place to tour. I think it's an interesting place to tour if you're an architecture geek, which I happen to be I not sure that I would recommend it for anybody. Who's not a real fan of architecture? But if you are a, yeah, this is a very major site. In fact, it is on the list of possible UNESCO world heritage site as a multi site portion about Frank Lloyd Wright, oh, I didn't realize that. Yeah. No. I would agree that you need to be an architecture fan and partly because it's quite expensive to tour. It's not a budget tour, and you have to buy to to do it for architecture fans in general Phoenix is a great city 'cause developed so much in the forties, and particularly the fifties and sixties, so it's unbidden century modern stuff everywhere, they do a mid century modern week in March. There's just lots and lots of interesting architecture from that period as well as some really interesting modern the lot of the civic buildings that were built. Twenty thirty years ago or more recently are just really spectacular both in Phoenix. And in Scottsdale in particular, the western spirit in Scottsdale is an architecture. Very interesting building with a lot of sustainability features interesting. Interesting features, there's a Pam the Phoenix. Art museum is a real interesting building. There's a lot of really interesting buildings. But for Frank Lloyd Wright fans, this is one of the big ones. The other thing. I didn't mention is for fans of either western art in general, Kobe, art or native American art is a museum down in Chandler called the Basha collection. And it was a private collection of Eddie Basha who runs the who. At one point ran the Basha grocery stores, and it's not curated the same way the say the heard or western spirit is but for someone who's interested in that sort of art, it's an amazing collection. He'll have he has in some cases, hundreds of pieces by the same artists. You can see like there. Development and style through time. It's a large collection in unlike most things in Phoenix for most museums. It's totally free only when weekdays, but it's an interesting thing. Most people don't know about the last one I'd add that people should maybe think about is the superstition mountain museum, which is a little more informal than most of the other museums. I've mentioned it's at the base of the superstitions where the Apache trail starts they have some really cool mining memorabilia pieces while not huge equipment. They have some historic buildings and some historic looking building. So they've set up kind of like an old mining town. And it's very atmospheric in the location stunning some beautiful beautiful location. The other thing that we haven't talked about is why March is so busy in Phoenix. And it's going to be one of the more expensive times to go and that's spring training. If you were a baseball fan, the number one reason that I have been Phoenix over the last twenty years or so is to go down for spring training. Half of the American baseball teams. Well, half of the American US and Canadian will end up in Phoenix and the other half in Florida, and you could go down and see half the teams play in general, and how cheap it is depends on where you go. If you go to Scottsdale stadium where the giants play you'll pay as much as you will for a game that you see in San Francisco, but on the other hand, if you go out to Glendale or Peoria to one of the other stadiums where some of the mid western teams are playing you can sometimes see a game for really cheap, you know, a game and a hotdog and can be quite a fun experience to go and see a number of the different teams all in a short period of time. Which is why it is. So popular will be a little more expensive to go that time of year. But that is a big draw in Phoenix in spring training starts in February and then finished March. Yeah. And. Really it's March. That's the the big thing. Because that's when they start playing more games the pitchers catchers reported mid-february. So that is something that we have been down for many times. And is is good fun. But again, a little more expensive you get friends to stay with. That's a great time to go but lights are going to be a little more hotels going to be a little more hotels early challenge and rental cars. I don't know if you guys fly drive, but I have been there in March where there has not been a rental car available in Phoenix. Believe that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it seems as ING, but it's it's true because of the spring training and all there is a lot of marches probably Phoenix's month for the best weather of the entire year. It is a great time to usually I have also been there during hailstorms in March. So usually could weather then but not always and for hikers the snakes aren't out yet. Okay. Good snow. It's still too cold. It's warm enough for us. But not for the snakes, generally. Okay. That is always something to know. Couple of other things for kids. There's a children's museum I have not been there. So I cannot recommend it necessarily. But there is a zoo that our kids enjoyed when they were younger in Phoenix. That was quite fun. Some other things for kids to. But again, I don't trouble with kids either. So it's harder. But the zoo is the zoo is very nice. Yeah. US news World Report that put that in their fourth on the list, even above the Phoenix art museum, and some of the other places we've talked about they put it above the heard museum, which I know is fighting words for you. But. It's a zoo. It's a good sue though, I would recommend that more of the shoulder season. Or the winter in the summer that's going to be pretty warm. Yeah. I mean, that's generally true anything outdoors. You wanna to do even the end may? But for sure June through even I've been in there in late September. And it's still Ben really in the nineties hundred juries so early mornings or evenings. A really when you wanna be out. You wanna do stuff that's inside an air conditioned, every places are conditioned in Phoenix. It is a drier heat than you would find in the midwest east coast or the south like an oven. But it gets quite warm. So and there's you know, spas, golf courses and all sorts of other things that people go down to Phoenix for that. I'll let you look on your own anything else. We wanna tell people before we get to some of our wrap up questions, Cindy mentioned is that for looking for lodging in Phoenix that there's really some key places. If you wanted urban experience to stay downtown Phoenix downtown Scottsdale, or in one if for more laidback urban experience in one of the historic districts and Phoenix they actually have a lot of historic districts, and there's a Fairmont of Airbnb in them luxuries ORT s- up north in Scottsdale or the desert escapes out on the eastern edge of the metro area. You can find some spectacular places out there. Great views, and you can hike right out your door, and I should say that if you're looking at a map of Phoenix almost everything we covered other than some of the parks that we went out and hiked in were in the eastern part of that circle that I drew. Around Phoenix with highway one and highway ten almost everything we did was to the east of highway seventeen which runs north and south sort of in the center of Phoenix. We didn't talk about places like Sun City where a lot of the retirees are and some of that area. That's a little less. Interesting to me, unless you're really fond of astroturf lawns and things like that. We also didn't talk about Mesa and Tempe, which you say is where you stay. Is there anything we want to say about those areas? Why did you stay in the farther eastern part of Mesa or north on the mountains? But downtown Mesa is really starting to have a rebirth in his becoming an interesting arts area. They've done a lot of landscaping they've put in a beautiful art center. They have some historic buildings. They lost a lot of them. But they have some there's a historic neighborhood. So it's it's becoming a really attractive place to stay and are more little more urban stay, but not being in Phoenix. It's let cheaper than downtown Phoenix Scottsdale Tempe. I have not stayed in Tempe. But we've gone down there on the light rail we've stopped there few times to eat and check it out. And that is of course, where here's ONA state university is located that's probably the liveliest place in the Phoenix metro area right now, there's all sorts of bars and restaurants, and while lot of it's aimed at college students. Not all of it is. And it's become a real interesting urban placed the kind of hang out and eat do things and be out. Outside and they've got some great parks. And so again, that's more urban areas, especially for younger people. There's a lot more nightlife. It's I have been in restaurants in Phoenix and Mesa recently that eight thirty you're eating dinner in their starting to put the tables on the chairs on the tables and close up for the night. So. Do you wanna be a little later, Scottsdale or Tempe is probably your best place to go and look for a little bit of nightlife? Excellent. All right. You're standing in the prettiest spot in Phoenix where he's standing in. What are you looking at this is cheating? But I think the prettiest place in Phoenix any place where I can see Sura cactus silhouetted against the setting sun. Just my favorite thing. Can you a lot of places that is a lot of places? Can you think of one place in particular? I'm very partial to lost Dutch mistake part because you can see the swirl mountains on one side swore months, the superstition mountains on one side, and you can see Phoenix off in the distance. And you can have the best of everything. Excellent. One thing that makes you laugh and say only in Phoenix. It's the phones it's getting better. There are water features everywhere in Phoenix, just everywhere. And they recycle all the water. I understand that. It's reused water. And they reuse it for five times even before it gets in the fountains. But. It still seems just crazy to see all these cactuses growing alongside these beautiful ponds around the greenfields, and golf courses and lawns. It's just. It's crazy. Excellent. And if you had to summarize Phoenix in three words, what three words would use vibrant, artsy and Soweto. Excellent. Well, we did we did talking about the cactus is so much the one thing that may surprise you. If you're not from the area is how old these cactuses are because I think a sore cactus won't even get an arm a limit till it's like a hundred years old if I recall correctly. So if you see something up there that's got two three four arms as a cactus. It is hundreds of years old so beat, you know, be careful with them be gentle with them. But they are very interesting adapt Haitians of plants to grow in the area. They're only found in the Sonoran desert. So they're only found in the central southern Arizona into Mexico and in in Phoenix, UC them planted on the roadsides all over the place and just everywhere, but they're cool. They're so cool. If we wanted to send people to the best post on Phoenix on at exploration vacation dot net. What post would we send them to? I have a separate landing. Page for exploring Phoenix in the valley of the sun that has just some summaries, and that has links to a few other stories and things a lot of the places of talked about I haven't actually written about because it's I'm down there so often I don't get things written up. Our guest again, it's been Cindy Carlson from exploration vacation dot net. Sydney. Thanks so much for coming on amateur traveler and sharing with us your lover, Phoenix. Thanks, Chris is really fun. It's always fun to talk to you. Couple of new things on the amateur traveler blog one is I finally got around to writing up some of the amateur travel trips in blog format. So if you're interested in reading about Morocco Cambodia or India, you can check those out at the top page of amateur traveler, also we just got back from Portland, and there's a couple articles about things to do in Portland in winter and best Portland food trucks and carts. So check those out amateur traveler dot com. If you're looking for California content on the amateur traveler, you're gonna have to go instead to California travel media dot com, all that content. Got moved to a new California website that I'm going to be putting some work into. I heard from Kyle this weekend. Kyle said I just wanted to send you a quick note of appreciation. I came across the amateur traveler podcast years ago via your tech in travel minute features on Tom merits daily, tech news show podcast. I've been a regular listener ever since. Last fall, my wife, and I moved from Pennsylvania to Brussels for an ex Pat assignment, I've been combing through the amateur traveler archives since then and binging the European episodes to help decide where we should travel on our new home continent, you've created such an invaluable resource with rich catalogue of travel experience. Please do keep up the good work regards Kyle and thanks so much. It was great to get your Email. And also people don't know what he's talking about four nail over two years. I've been doing once a week just a quick tech in travel tip for the daily tech news show, which is my daily tech new show of choice. I'm regular listener of that show as well with that. We'll bring an end to this episode of amateur traveller if you have any questions Senate Email to hosted amateur traveler dot com or better yet. Leave a comment on this episode at amateur traveler dot com, and thanks so much for listening. See? Jam building.

Phoenix Scottsdale Phoenix art museum Phoenix Scottsdale Tempe general Phoenix baseball Frank Lloyd Wright Apache lake US Cindy Carlson Roosevelt lake Mesa Raines fish creek Apache junction Seoul lake Roosevelt lake Essen Tempe
"cindy carlson" Discussed on The Amateur Traveler Podcast

The Amateur Traveler Podcast

18:11 min | 1 year ago

"cindy carlson" Discussed on The Amateur Traveler Podcast

"Down the road to tortilla flat. Which is a either restored revived ghost town or a rebuilt completely rebuilt. Ghost town, the original tortilla, flat mostly burned down many many many years ago, they have a little restaurant out there. There's a teensy tiny museum. The restaurant is actually fairly good. It's really good. But it's very western themed, you know, saddles for barstools, and that sort of thing it's an interesting quirky place with decent food makes a really good stop fro either before or after your crews when you go there. It's about a half day trip to go out do the cruise. Have a meal, it tortilla flats and then drive back for the more adventurous, the fun part of the road starts after tortilla flat. Skip the cruise unless you want a really long day, but you could do both once you pass tortilla flat. You you get to a hill. And when you go down the hill the road turns dirt, it's basically the same unpaved road. It was in nineteen thirty six when it was last used as a the main highway between Apache junction, we'll between Phoenix and Payson and you are stepping back in time. It's one lane in some places. If you make it through fish creek through the steep descent, the twists the blind the one lane blind curbs and that area than the rest of the road is pretty drivable. Always check the weather before you go to make sure the road isn't in terrible shape or washed out from Raines was recently graded the last time we were out there. There are some guardrails there are a lot of guardrails because it's a historic road. The apparently can't do much to widen it or improve it. It, but that's part of the adventure. It's a stunning drive. It's a dusty drive. There are some some places to stop where you can admire. The senior admire the wealth lowers there's actually another lake further down Apache lake. There's a little resort marina down there. When you get to the end of the road. There's a big dam area which creates another lake Roosevelt lake which is a big recreation area. And once you get all the way to the end, and it's only about twenty five miles on the unpaved portion, but plan at least an hour or more to drive that part. You cannot drive it over about thirty miles an hour, most of it. And some of it is a lot slower than that. You don't need a high clearance vehicle most of the time, it's not a bad idea. But you can drive it most of the time in a sedan without any problem. But for the adventurous drivers, it's a gorgeous drive when you get to the end, you can stop and take a break at Roosevelt lake, and then you either can go back the way you came or. There's a state highway that runs through the it's the tunnel. National forests, it's a lovely area. Partly desert, partly forested and takes you back down south to down in globe and coming across globe and superior. There's another botanical garden down there that spectacular. If you want to do some more flowers if you're there and flower season, you can tell my thing is flour season. So flower season would be early spring starting in various by year. But usually starting late February, Pat, the poppies sometimes mid February. But March is really marching into early April is usually when the flowers and this year offensive your listeners are thinking about going. This should be a great year for flowers. They've had a lot of rain this winter at should be really really beautiful through most of it's already the starting to bloom even through all March should be really really nice and at the weather's beautiful March is the high season, and we'll get into that in a little bit. Because there's a reason why it's the high season if the high part of the high season actually the winter is the high season go ahead. You're you're talking about flowers though, that Dr gives you some spectacular flowers the hallway when you come down in when you get down. It's Boyce Thompson arboretum down in superior, which is again at far far southeastern edge of the the Phoenix metro area. It's really I would. Consider it part of the Phoenix metro area. But technically it actually is. It's a spectacular drive in that garden is spectacular to Seoul. That's the nice it'd be a full day at a someone wants to do something like that gets you out of town and let get you out into the desert, which is sort of nice. If you're in spending all of your time right in the Phoenix area. That's only five days. There's other things you could do I did not mention tally Essen, which is Frank Lloyd Wright's Greenwich that Yuka. Winter residents. It's a very interesting place to tour. I think it's an interesting place to tour if you're an architecture geek, which I happen to be I not sure that I would recommend it for anybody. Who's not a real fan of architecture? But if you are a, yeah, this is a very major site. In fact, it is on the list of possible UNESCO world heritage site as a multi site portion about Frank Lloyd Wright, oh, I didn't realize that. Yeah. No. I would agree that you need to be an architecture fan and partly because it's quite expensive to tour. It's not a budget tour, and you have to buy to to do it for architecture fans in general Phoenix is a great city because developed so much in the forties, and particularly the fifties and sixties, so it's unbidden century modern stuff everywhere, they do a mid century modern week in March. There's just lots and lots of interesting architecture from that period as well as some really interesting modern the lot of the civic buildings that were built. Twenty thirty years ago or more recently are just really spectacular both in Phoenix. And in Scottsdale in particular, the western spirit in Scottsdale is an architecture. Very interesting building with a lot of sustainability features interesting. Interesting features, there's a Pam the Phoenix. Art museum is a real interesting building. There's a lot of really interesting buildings. But for Frank Lloyd Wright fans, this is one of the big ones. The other thing. I didn't mention is for fans of either western art in general, art, or native American Arthur's a museum down in Chandler called the Basha collection. And it was the private collection of Eddie Basha who runs the who. At one point ran the Basha grocery stores, and it's not curated the same way the say the heard or western spirit is but for someone who's interested in that sort of art, it's an amazing collection. He'll have he has in some cases, hundreds of pieces by the same artists. You can see like your. Development style through time. It's a large collection in unlike most things and Phoenix for most museums. It's totally free only when weekdays, but it's an interesting thing. Most people don't know about the last one I'd add that people should maybe think about is the superstition mountain museum, which is a little more informal than most of the other museums. I've mentioned it's at the base of the superstitions where the Apache trail starts they have some really cool mining memorabilia pieces while not huge equipment. They have some historic buildings and some historic looking buildings. So they've set up kind of like an old mining town. And it's very atmospheric in the location stunning. It's a beautiful beautiful location. The other thing that we haven't talked about is why March is so busy in Phoenix. And it's going to be one of the more expensive times to go and that spring training if you were a baseball fan, the number one reason that I have been a Phoenix over the last twenty years or so is to go down for spring training. We're half of the American baseball teams. Well, half of the American US and Canadian will end up in Phoenix and the other half in Florida, and you could go down and see half the teams play in general, and how cheap it is depends on where you go. If you go to Scottsdale stadium where the giants play you'll pay as much as you will for game that you see in San Francisco, but on the other hand, if you go out to Glendale or Peoria to one of the other stadiums where some of the mid western teams are playing you can sometimes see a game for really cheap a game and a hotdog and can be quite a fun experience to go and see a number of the different teams all in a short period of time. Which is why it is. So popular will be a little more expensive to go that time of year. But that is a big draw in Phoenix in spring training starts in February and then finished his March. Yeah. And. Really it's March. That's the the big thing. Because that's when they start playing more games the pitchers catchers reported mid-february. So that is something that we have been down for many times and is good fun. But again, a little more expensive get friends to stay with. That's a great time to go but lights are going to be a little more hotels going to be a little more hotels early challenge and rental cars. I don't know if you guys fly drive, but I have been there in March where there has not been a rental car available in Phoenix believe that. Yeah. I mean, it seems as ING, but it's it's true because of the spring training, and all there is a lot of marches probably Phoenix's month for the best weather the entire year. It is a great time to be there. Usually I have also been there during hailstorms in March so easily could weather then but not always and for hikers the snakes aren't out yet. Okay. Good to know. It's still too cold. It's warm enough for us. But not for the snakes, generally. Okay. That that is always something. Couple things other things for kids. There's a children's museum I have not been there. So I cannot recommend it necessarily. But there is a zoo that our kids enjoyed when they were younger in Phoenix that was quite fun some other things for kids to but again, I don't travel with kids either. So it's harder. But the zoo is the zoo is very nice. Yeah. US news World Report that put that in their fourth on the list, even above the Phoenix art museum, and some of the other places we've talked about they put it above the heard museum, which I know is fighting words for you. But. It's a zoo. It's a good soon though. I would recommend that more of the shoulder season or the winter in the summer that's going to be pretty warm. Yeah. I mean, that's generally true anything outdoors. You wanna do even the end may? But for sure June through even I've been in their late September. And it's still Ben really in the nineties hundred degrees. So early mornings or evenings. A really when you wanna be out. You wanna do stuff that's inside an air conditioned, every places are conditioned in Phoenix. It is a drier heat than you would find in the midwest east coast or the south like an oven. But it gets quite warm. So and there's you know, spas, golf courses and all sorts of other things that people go down to Phoenix for that. I'll let you look on your own anything else. We wanna tell people before we get to some of our wrap up questions, Cindy mentioned is that for looking for lodging in Phoenix that there's really some key places. If you wanted urban experience to stay downtown Phoenix downtown Scottsdale, or in one for more laidback urban experience in one of the historic districts and Phoenix they actually have a lot of historic districts, and there's a Fairmont of Airbnb is in them luxuries arts up north in Scottsdale or the desert escapes out on the eastern edge of the metro area. You can find some spectacular places out there. Great views, and you can hike right out your door, and I should say that if you're looking at a map of Phoenix almost everything we covered other than some of the parks that we went out and heighten were in the eastern part of that circle that I drew. Around Phoenix with highway one and highway ten almost everything we did was to the east of highway seventeen which runs north and south sort of in the center of Phoenix. We didn't talk about places like Sun City where a lot of the retirees are and some of that area. That's a little less. Interesting to me, unless you're really fond of astroturf lawns and things like that. We also didn't talk about Mesa and Tempe, which you say is where you stay. Is there anything we want to say about those areas? Why did you stay in the farther eastern part of Mesa or north on the mountains? But downtown Mesa is really starting to have a rebirth in his becoming an interesting arts area. They've done a lot of landscaping they've put in a beautiful art center. They have some historic buildings. They lost a lot of them. But they have some there's a historic neighborhood. So it's it's becoming a really attractive place to stay and are more little more urban stay, but not being in Phoenix. It's let cheaper than downtown Phoenix Scottsdale Tempe. I have not stayed in Tempe. But we've gone down there on the light rail we've stopped there few times to eat and check it out. And that is of course, we're on a state university is located that's probably the liveliest place in the Phoenix metro area right now, there's all sorts of bars and restaurants in while lot of it's aimed at college students. Not all of it is and it's become a real interesting urban place, the kind of hang out and eat and do things and be. Outside and they've got some great parks. And so again, that's more urban areas, especially for younger people. There's a lot more nightlife. It's I have been in restaurants in Phoenix and Mesa recently that eight thirty you're eating dinner in their starting to put the tables on the chairs on the tables and close up for the night. So. If you want to be a little later, Scottsdale or Tempe is probably your best place to go and look for a little bit of nightlife. Excellent. All right. You're standing in the prettiest spot in Phoenix where he standing in. What are you looking at this is cheating? But I think the prettiest place in Phoenix is any place where I can see Sura cactus silhouetted against the setting sun. Just my favorite thing. Can you a lot of places that is a lot of places? Can you think of one place in particular? I'm very partial to lost Dutch mistake part because you can see the swirl mountains on one side swore months, the superstition mountains on one side, and you can see Phoenix off in the distance. And so you can have the best of everything. Excellent. One thing that makes you love and say only in Phoenix. It's the phones it's getting better. There are water features everywhere in Phoenix, just everywhere. And they recycle all the water. I understand that. It's reused water. And they reuse it for five times even before it gets in the fountains. But. It still seems just crazy to see all these cactuses growing alongside these beautiful ponds around the greenfields, and golf courses and lawns. It's just. It's crazy. Excellent. And if you had to summarize Phoenix in three words, what three words would use vibrant, artsy and Suru. Excellent. Well, we did we did talking about the cactus is so much the one thing that may surprise you. If you're not from the area is how old these cactuses are because I think oral cactus won't even get an arm a limit till it's like one hundred years old if I recall correctly. So if you see something up there that's got two three four arms as a cactus. It is hundreds of years old so beat, you know, be careful with them be gentle with them. But they are very interesting adapt Haitians of plants that grow in the area. Yeah. And they're only found in the Sonoran desert. So they're only found in the central southern Arizona into Mexico and in in Phoenix, UC them planted on the roadsides all over the place and just everywhere, but they're cool. They're so cool city if we wanted to send people to the best post on Phoenix on at exploration vacation dot net. What post would we send them to? I have a separate landing. Page for exploring Phoenix in the valley of the son that has just some summaries, and that has links to a few other stories and things a lot of the places of talked about I haven't actually written about because it's I'm down there so often I don't get things written up. Our guest again, it's been Cindy Carlson from exploration vacation dot net. Simi thanks so much for coming on amateur traveler and sharing with us your love of Phoenix. Thanks, Chris is really fun. It's always fun to talk to you. Couple of new things on the amateur traveler blog one is I finally got around to writing up some of the amateur travel trips in blog format. So if you're interested in reading about Morocco Cambodia or India, you can check those out at the top page of amateur traveler, also we just got back from Portland, and there's a couple articles about things to do in Portland and winter and best Portland food trucks and carts. So check those out amateur traveler dot com. If you're looking for California content on the amateur trough, or you're gonna have to go instead to California travel media dot com, all that content. Got moved to a new California website that I'm going to be putting some work into. I heard from Kyle this weekend. Kyle said I just wanted to send you a quick note of appreciation. I came across the amateur traveler podcast years ago via your tech in travel minute features on Tom merits daily tech news show putt cast a been a regular listener ever since. Last fall, my wife, and I moved from Pennsylvania to Brussels for an expat assignment, I've been combing through the amateur traveler archives since then and binging the European episodes to help decide where we should travel on our new home continent, you've created such an invaluable resource with rich catalogue of travel experience. Please do keep up the good work regards Kyle and thanks so much. It was great to get your Email. And also people don't know what he's talking about four nail over two years. I've been doing once a week just a quick tech in travel tip for the daily tech news show, which is my daily tech new show of choice. I'm a regular listener of that show as well with that will bring an end to this episode of amateur traveler giving questions Senate Email to hosted amateur traveler dot com or better yet. Leave a comment on this episode at amateur traveler dot com, and thanks so much for listening. See? Champ.

Phoenix Scottsdale Phoenix art museum Phoenix Scottsdale Tempe general Phoenix Frank Lloyd Wright baseball Apache lake US Cindy Carlson Roosevelt lake Mesa Raines fish creek Apache junction Seoul lake Roosevelt lake Tempe Scottsdale stadium
"cindy carlson" Discussed on The Amateur Traveler Podcast

The Amateur Traveler Podcast

10:21 min | 1 year ago

"cindy carlson" Discussed on The Amateur Traveler Podcast

"The bags back on the road. There and read it's go real good pass board. Hamma traveler pursued six hundred forty seven today. The amateur traveler talks about art, museums and western culture, hikes petroglyphs and Naro cactus. As we go to Phoenix, Arizona. The metre traveler, I'm your host, Chris Christensen. Let's talk about Phoenix. I'd like to welcome back to the show Cindy Carlson from exploration vacation dot net. Who has come to talk to us about Phoenix cine? Welcome to the show. I Chris thanks for having me or welcome back to the show said he was here about one hundred episodes ago. I was surprised it was that long ago talking about northern Vietnam. And if you haven't heard that episode I like that episode, obviously because otherwise she would be back. So Cindy, we're talking about a much more domestic destination this time in what's your connection with Phoenix? My now there's been down there about thirty years now. And so I've been going down there pre regularly since about nineteen ninety five bending sometimes just a few days and sometimes spending even a couple of weeks down there exploring the area. Excellent. So she is a snowbird in the language of the area. Yes. My parents are snowbirds I'd snowbird if I could convince my husband to spend more time down there but likes books. Gets a tad warm in the summer for me and Phoenix. And just so we know we usually don't talk about whether for a while. But one of the reasons a lot of people come down in the wintertime, lovely lovely weather summertime. They'll get one hundred days in a row that will go of one hundred degrees Fahrenheit. So that just baby something you think about we have a friend who moved to Phoenix because the summer's here in San Jose that only got two ninety were not hot enough for her. So if you like hot weather, that's definitely good time to go lot more people there in the winter. And there's a lot to do. Actually, I haven't been there in the summer, but there's a lot to do in the summer inside. And there's actually water in rivers and floats and things I have a lot of friends that live there year round. And they actually say summers aren't always that bad. Right. Well, it depends. Again, what you like. And I do know that the friends who go out hiking tend to do it early in the morning in the summertime or or later in the evening usually early in the morning when it's the coolest time of day, but what kind of itinerary do. Recommend for us for Phoenix. So I tried to put together, and I tend to worry that's really aimed at first time. Visitors to Phoenix it gives them an idea of what Phoenix is about where it came from what the landscapes like and what the people who've lived their past and present are like and it's geared. It's five days because five days seems to be to me a good amount of time to get a real feeling for Phoenix. It's still leaves you enough time that if you want to spend time golfing or laying by the pool or you wanna make a trip up to Grand Canyon, which I know you've covered on one a year. Previous shows you can add that on then it's a week's vacation and still do all the stuff that I'm recommending will you we won't took quite as much about site trips. But there are a number different things if you had north or south either down to Tucson, we've done it episode on that or up to flagstaff area up to Grand Canyon or even up to the north east corner of the state, we've got different shows about northern Phoenix. So we won't be talking about them now. But what should we do in Phoenix? Well, actually, let me back up a bit here. I should start with. Why should we go to Phoenix of all the places we should go to sell? I think Phoenix gets the bad rap as as a snowboard destination. Oh, it's just where the retirees go because warm it's hot in the summer. Why would you ever go to Phoenix? And Phoenix, particularly in the last fifteen years twenty years, maybe now has really become a arts and culture hub. It's got a a thriving lively downtown great art scene. It has spectacular scenery all around the city with the snoring desert there. It's become a real interesting place to go. There's something there. I think for everyone, and it's really a worthwhile destination. There's a lot to see in Phoenix that you probably won't see and other places. The only part of that that I would show is that that has happened over the last ten or fifteen years because I've been going there at longer than that. And I think it's getting better known for that over the last ten fifteen years, I think that's been there for. A while in terms of the arts and culture. I think part of it is as light rail's come in. It's maybe it's more that it's expanded places like downtown Mesa that used to be really dead are now little art tub's. Okay. And so maybe that's it because it's been building. It's I've always liked Phoenix. But I think it's really become something that a lot of people don't expect excellent. And we're should we start? So I'm gonna suggest that people start by learning about the Sonoran desert by actually going out to the desert botanical garden, which is in northeast. It's a beautiful place as botanical garden it, of course, has landscaped areas and non native plants, but it also has large areas of native plants. It's a great place to soak in the beauty of the desert and to learn about the desert, so that when you go hiking on your own, you know, that even those those Challah cactuses might look really friendly fuzzy that to get near them. So it gives you both that introduction to the desert as well as beautiful place to wander. You can easily spend a few hours or half day there. They have a fabulous cafes. What's a nice place to spend some time in the garden, and then wandered to the cafe will want to make sure that we're talking about the same place because the desert botanical garden that I know is not in north Phoenix. It's on almost in Scottsdale. So it would be east of Phoenix. It's right on the border of Scottsdale. And Phoenix you that's not north Phoenix east, east Phoenix. Okay. And that's another thing. I should mention that. I have geographic dyslexia when it comes to Unix. So keen on is because I miss a west when I really mean east it's over by Scottsdale, and it's beautiful. It's right at the foot of the mountains beautiful place to walk in wander. I happen to see it. The first time when there was a truly exhibit. So my experience there is quite different because there was all sorts of glass being shown at the same time. But what if a place especially for kids to recommend our kids love the butterfly exhibit, for instance, there as well as some of the other. And they've actually redone the gardens since you've been there since the league's of it. And there are still still Hulas and some other sculptures in the garden. They do special events visitors coming into Phoenix should check the schedule and see they sometimes do big fun parties out in the garden at night and different things can be hard to get tickets to those. But there are blast. If you can get them. Excellent. So because that's not necessarily a full day. If you want to do a little more that day, I would continue on towards the west to the Pueblo grandee museum, which it's a museum in an archaeological park, it's fairly small museum. But they do really nice job of talking about the hokum people who live in the Phoenix area more than thousand years ago. They actually were the original ones building canals in the salt. River valley canals bring all Phoenix's water in today. But that actually goes back to ancient culture that lived there more than a thousand years ago. It's a nice little museum the archaeological site itself, isn't terribly into. There's not a lot left. But the museum dozen nice job of introducing you to what this area was like in the people who live there a long time ago. The other alternative end out your first day would be if it's on a Thursday had over to Scottsdale and do evening art walk and have dinner down on the in the arts district in historic Scottsdale, which is a really fun place. And I'll talk about that a little more in the next day. We should say we haven't really even gone very far from the Phoenix harbor airport here for the first two stops does botanical gardens. The public grid museum are practically stone's throw from the airport. So we haven't ranged very far afield yet. This is all fairly easy to a stone. So for Phoenix anyway, which is a gigantic Norma's area. Geographically is a very large area. Geographically. That's right. I forget to actually put together two different options, depending on visitors interest level of interest in native cultures or cowboy culture, I've got two different options. One the one would. Be two more about the people who live in the southwest today. And that would be a trip to the heard museum in downtown Phoenix even closer to sky harbor airport. We haven't left really Phoenix at all for these. The today's the herd is both a cultural history and art museum about half the museum or more is devoted to exhibits on the peoples of the southwest with separate areas on each different culture, and both modern and historic pieces of art in basket tree in different daily aims of daily life. The other part of the museum includes an exhibit which for in my part of the country is something people don't know as much about as the Indian boarding school era. They've just redone the exhibit. I haven't seen the new one. But the old one was both fascinating and really heartbreaking. But really really interesting again mostly history. But combining modern perspectives and information as well. And presenting it in a way. It's very very acceptable like the exempts really geared for both adults and for children in the area. You're talking about here is an era where they want to pending on how you how you look at this. The one side would say they wanted to include the native Americans in American culture, and therefore they wanted to inculturated them. And the other side would say that they wanted them to lose their identity as native Americans and inculturated them. But it was definitely a very intentional move to bring them in to have the move away from their families to go to these boarding schools and two tournament white people would be the crude way of saying that.

Phoenix Phoenix cine Phoenix harbor Cindy Carlson Scottsdale Chris Christensen Arizona Naro cactus Vietnam art museum Hamma Sonoran desert Pueblo grandee museum Indian boarding school era public grid museum Grand Canyon summers
"cindy carlson" Discussed on The Amateur Traveler Podcast

The Amateur Traveler Podcast

09:41 min | 1 year ago

"cindy carlson" Discussed on The Amateur Traveler Podcast

"The. The bag on a roll. Anna read it's go in real good pass board. Hammet traveler pursuit six hundred forty seven today. BMI traveler talks about art, museums and western culture, hikes petroglyphs and Sua cactus. As we go to Phoenix, Arizona. Walk. The amateur traveler your host, Chris Christensen. Let's talk about Phoenix. I'd like to welcome back to the show Cindy Carlson from exploration vacation dot net. Who has come to talk to us about Phoenix cine? Welcome to the show. I Chris thanks for having me or welcome back to the show said he was here about one hundred episodes ago. I was surprised it was that long ago talking about northern Vietnam. And if you haven't heard that episode I like that episode, obviously because otherwise she would be back. So Cindy, we're talking about a much more domestic destination this time in what's your connection with Phoenix? My now there's been down there about thirty years now. And so I've been going down there pretty regularly since about nineteen ninety five bending sometimes just a few days and sometimes spending even a couple of weeks down there exploring the area. Excellent. So she is a snowbird in the language of the area. Yes. My parents are snowbirds I'd snowbird if I could convince my husband to spend more time down there, but likes us books. Gets tad warm in the summer for me and Phoenix. And just so we know we usually don't talk about whether for a while. But one of the reasons lot of people come down in the wintertime, lovely lovely weather summertime. They'll get one hundred days in a row that will go of one hundred degrees Fahrenheit. So that just maybe something you think about we have a friend who moved to Phoenix because the summer's here in San Jose that only got two ninety were not hot enough for her. So if you like hot weather, that's definitely a good time to go lot more people there in the winter. And there's a lot to do. Actually, I haven't been there in the summer, but there's a lot to do in the summer inside. And there's actually water in rivers in floats and things I have a lot of friends that live there year round. And they actually say summers aren't always that bad. Right. Well, it depends. Again, what you like. And I do know that the friends who go out hiking tend to do it early in the morning in the summertime or or later in the evening usually early in the morning when it's the coolest time of day. But what kind of itenerary do? Recommend for us for Phoenix. So I tried to put together, and I worry that's really aimed at first time. Visitors to Phoenix it gives them an idea of what Phoenix is about where it came from what the landscapes like and what the people who've lived their past and present are like and it's geared. It's five days because five days seems to be to me a good amount of time to get a real feeling for Phoenix. Still leaves you enough time that if you want to spend time golfing or laying by the pool or you want to make a trip up to Grand Canyon, which I know you've covered on one a year previous shows, you can add that on and then it's a week's vacation and still do all the stuff that I'm recommending will you we won't talk quite as much about side trips. But there are a number different things if you head north or south either down to Tucson, we've done it episode on that or up to flagstaff area up to Grand Canyon or even to the north east corner of the state, we've got different shows about northern Phoenix. So we won't be talking about them now. But what should we do in Phoenix? Well, actually, let me back up a bit here. I should start with. Why should we go to Phoenix of all the places we should go to sell? I think Phoenix gets the bad rap as as a snowboard destination. Oh, it's just where the retirees because warm it's hot in the summer. Why would you ever go to Phoenix? And Phoenix, particularly in the last fifteen years twenty years, maybe now as really become a arts and culture hub. It's got a a thriving lively downtown great art scene. It has spectacular scenery all around the city with the Sonoran desert there. It's become a real interesting place to go. There's something there. I think for everyone, and it's really a worthwhile destination. There's a lot to see in Phoenix that you probably won't see and other places. The only part of that that I would show is that that has happened over the last ten or fifteen years because I've been going there at longer than that. And I think it's getting better known for that over the last ten fifteen years, I think that's been there for. In terms of the arts and culture. I think part of it is as light rail's come in. It's maybe it's more that expanded places like downtown Mesa that used to be really dead are now little art. Okay. And so maybe that's it because it's been building. It's I've always liked Phoenix. But I think it's really become something that a lot of people don't expect excellent. And we're should we start? So I'm going to suggest that people start by learning about the Sonoran desert by actually going out to the desert botanical garden, which is in northeast. It's a beautiful place as mechanical garden it, of course, has landscaped areas and non native plants, but it also has large areas of native plants. It's a great place to soak in the beauty of the desert and to learn about the desert, so that when you go hiking on your own, you know, that even those those Challah cactuses might look really friendly in fuzzy that to get near them. So it gives you both that introduction to the desert as well as beautiful place to wander. You can easily spend a few hours or half day there. They have a fabulous cafe. So it's a nice place to spend some time in the garden. And then wander to the cafe will want to make sure that we're talking about the same place because the desert botanical garden that I know is not in north Phoenix. It's on almost in Scottsdale. So it would be east of Phoenix. It's right on the border of Scottsdale and Phoenix that's not north Phoenix east, east Phoenix. Okay. And that's another thing. I should mention that. I have geographic dyslexia when it comes to Unix. So keen is because I miss a west when I really mean east it's over by Scottsdale, and it's beautiful. It's right at the foot of the mountains beautiful place to walk in wander. I happen to see it. The first time when there was a truly exhibit. So my experience there is quite different because there was all sorts of glass being shown at the same time. But what if place especially for kids to recommend our kids love the butterfly exhibit, for instance, there as well as some of the other. And they've actually redone the gardens since you've been there since the CIA Julia exhibit, and there are still still chew Hulas and some other sculptures in the garden. They do special events visitors coming into Phoenix should check the schedule and see they sometimes do big fun parties out in the garden at night and different things can be hard to get tickets to those. But there blast if you can get them. Excellent. So because that's not necessarily a full day. If you want to do a little more that day, I would continue on towards the west to the grandee museum, which it's a museum in an archaeological park, it's fairly small museum. But they do have really nice job of talking about the hokum people who live in the Phoenix area more than thousand years ago. They actually were the original ones building canals in the salt. River valley canals bring all Phoenix's water in today. But that actually goes back to ancient culture that lived there more than a thousand years ago. It's a nice little museum the archaeological site itself, isn't terribly into. Interesting. There's not a lot left, but the museum dozen nice job of introducing you to what this area was like in the people who live there a long time ago. The other alternative end out your first day would be if it's on a Thursday head over to Scottsdale and do evening art walk and have dinner down on the in the arts district in historic Scottsdale, which is a really fun place. And I'll talk about that a little more and went in the next day. We should say we haven't really even gone very far from the Phoenix harbor airport here for the first who stops does botanical gardens. The public grid museum are practically stone's throw from the airport. So we haven't ranged very far afield yet. This is all fairly easy to stone. So for Phoenix anyway, which is a gigantic Norma situ area. Geographically is a very large area geographically that's right for day to actually put together to different options, depending on visitors inter level of interest in native cultures or cowboy culture. I've got two different options won the won would. Be two and more about the people who live in the southwest today. And that would be a trip to the heard museum in downtown Phoenix even closer sky harbor airport. We haven't left really Phoenix at all for these. The today's the herd is both a cultural history and art museum about half the museum or more is devoted to exhibits on the peoples of the southwest with separate areas on each different culture, and both modern and historic pieces of art in basket tree in different daily aims daily life. The other part of the museum includes an exhibit which for in my part of the country is something people don't know as much about as the Indian boarding school era. They've just redone the exhibit. I haven't seen the new one. But the old one was both fascinating and really heartbreaking. But really really interesting again mostly history. But combining modern perspectives and information as well. And presenting it in a way. That's very very acceptable like the exempts really geared for

Phoenix Phoenix cine Phoenix harbor Sonoran desert Cindy Carlson Scottsdale Chris Christensen Arizona Vietnam Hammet art museum Anna BMI Sua cactus grandee museum public grid museum Tucson Grand Canyon summers