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...diseasesischronic wasting disease Right. Typically one day in middle age. The sufferer finds that he has begun to sweat, a look in the...
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Sawbones: Alkaline Water
Saw bones is a show about medical history. And nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's refund. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil we think you've earned it just sit back relax and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth your worth it. Right. Is about books. Well. What? Look. Hello everybody and welcome to solve owns tour misguided medicine. I'm your coz Justin McElroy, and I'm Sydney Maccarone. Sorry. These faces I'm going to be the whole episode. We did a or doing coronary, you know, Connery. I know I'm Rekondo and listening say it enough times. They'll understand what I'm talking about. Right. That's the way podcasting works. Thanks for letting me know, how podcasting touch everything in your house and see if it sparks joy their way stuff that doesn't donated or whatever we've gone through about fifteen bags worth of donations and trash, but my allergies are just done said. Yeah, I understand. I feel like basically what I feel like right now that the ph levels of my body are out of whack I feel like if I had something to help me bring it back into balance. Then I would be a lot more centered and a lot more ready to do this show. So Justin, I mentioned this week's topic to me he said, I was trying to think of something to do. I was looking through our emails, and he said, hey, why don't you talk about alkaline water? What's the deal with that? And so then I thought oh as anybody else suggested this because here this is my confession. I had not heard of alkaline water. I mean, I know what those two words me. But I had not heard of it as a thing. I didn't know it was something people were buying. I'm just somebody who falls trends in the beverage sector, and it's it's on an upswing right now in North America Asia. So I just I keep my finger on the pulse. Well, so then I searched our Email to see have a lot of people been recommending this and between alkaline water alkaline diet, the whole ph alkaline concept a lot of people have been interested in this. I don't know how sector well. And also diets which I think that rung a bell for me. But I wanna thank all the people who recommended this, including even Hanane Alikhan, Cheryl, Jordan, Robert and Christopher and Freddie, Courtney amber, and Emma and Jamie, and Arthur, Amy and Bill and Sarah, Jessie Morton, and Sarah, Ann, Anna and Dana. Thank you. And just hoops. Yes. Dramatic ri-. I will say many of your emails said this that you started to look in alkaline water because someone in your family or friends said, hey, I'm drinking water now. And it's changed my life in whatever myriad ways. And so you started to look it up to see is this a real thing. And it took you down a rabbit hole, and I sympathize because I've been there I have at no this week. I have at least two points found said with her head in her hands and tears in her eyes audibly like gasping. Sometimes these things just I I know that this is what we do and it shouldn't surprise me anymore. But some of it is so obvious like so obvious that it's wrong. But then I have the I I went to medical school. So let's go hoard. All right. So. The thing about it is that people never seem to get tired of trying to improve on water. Good old water. Like people just have to do something with water because it's not good enough. That water is good for you. And you should probably be drinking more of it. Because most of us don't drink enough. That's not enough and fruit flavors to it. And like Floride like come on. This is nature's water. You don't need to be thrown this chemicals. I want. No wait now. Fluorides good as long as it's clean. I mean as long as it's clean. It's that's it's fine. Call Klein lean on GMO. No, stop alkaline water is water that has a higher ph than water. Typically, does do you. I think most people kind of opposite would be acid water, right? Yes. Okay. Yes. The so you kind of understand the ph scale works. I think most of us have some familiarity with it, basically, it's a measure of how a civic. Something is or how basic it is or alkaline either way and the lower the ph value, the more acidic, it is the higher pumpkin spice lot as at drinks, the more basic, it is ha ha ha pretty now. More alkaline something the higher on the ph scale. So neutral ph seven if it's lower than seven to civic if a tire than seven sock line that's dome. Dumb that the that way. It should be zero. That's dumb that. It's that way. That's just not how it why would a neutral zero and then it'd be negative and positive that would be more confusing. It's easier to use the that we can just use the value seven is neutral zero one two one two six a eight to fourteen. Okay. Okay. I resent Irish yet. So generally speaking things that are very acidic or very basic can be dangerous to humans and the stuff in the neutral ranges fine. And even with that let me point out like the ph of lemon juice is too. So I mean within reason dangerous, obviously, you can. Eat a lemon if you want and you're fine. Right. You know, and the the reason that you're fine. If you eat a lemon is because ph is one of if not the most tightly controlled systems in your body. Your body is really good at regulating, what your ph level is. And the reason for this is very simple because the human body only operates in a pretty narrow ph range. If it starts to get too low or too high your enzymes the proteins that do things in your body will start to d- nature or fall apart. And what follows that eventually is death. Right. Be. So the way we say it in medicine often is oh that is incompatible with life. Meaning that person's going to die. If we don't do something. Right. Okay. Got. So the idea that the food and beverage that you take. Take in has influence on your blood ph level is kind of wild. Because if that were true, then every time you drank lemonade. You would die are don't write for miss. So your your kidneys. And your lungs are mainly in charge of keeping your P H where it needs to be by getting rid of things or your kidneys or keeping things and then blowing off extra carbon dioxide from your lungs and all of this can be measured with a blood test. We can measure there's a slightly different ph in your in the blood in your veins, then in the blood in your arteries, and we can measure both of those things by taking a sample and figuring out what your blood ph is. And again, this is very tightly regulated interior important that your body keep a PH somewhere between seven point three five and seven point four five. Now, obviously, if it goes above or below that you don't instantly die. We, you know, we do things you get sick. Though, you get sick. You come to the hospital. We do things to help you because otherwise than you will die water is usually around seven on the ph scale. Not maybe not absolute seven pure, natural water is seven and then water that we drink. Whether it's tap water or bottled water varies around that. Right. Not always exactly seven the way that they make alkaline water is to add different minerals that will raise the ph of it. So they add things like calcium and potassium mcneese Eum silica by carbonate. They add all that to the water. And then the the water that you can buy that's outline water is usually like ph of eight or nine, okay. Okay. That'll make sense. Yes. Now. The reason that alkaline water exists. The reason that this has been made and bottled and sold is that there is this idea that somehow our North American diet is causing us all to be to acidic that our bodies are are chronically mildly acidic. I would explain twin fair if we were all just acidic all the time all mile listening. Now, if this were true as I already mentioned, we could detect it on labs. Right. If you were really worried that you were to us if you could come in, and I could do. The tests that we use often in the hospital for patients that were really worried about is an arterial blood gas. So they have to they actually have to stick a needle into an artery to get a blood sample to obtain that very painful lab tests necessary, unfortunately, sometimes, but we could do that. And we could check your ph. And if your ph was, okay, which if you're like not feeling sick. And you're walking around and doing fine. It's probably pretty okay, you'd be fine. Now, the argument that people who believe in this concept will will make is that this is first of all just a low level acidity. So it's I told you there was that range seven point three five to seven point four five. They say that seven point four is ideal. So if you are seven point three eight two acidic, okay? So they will say like, well, but the labs normal, but we know that that's not okay, it's normal, but not normal or they'll say, well, your blood ph may be normal. But what is your? Having to do to maintain that normal blood ph. Right. So it's having to make all the sacrifices and make Shane ges in different organ systems. So if we were to if we were able to test the acidity in your liver, or in your kidneys, or in your wherever your intestines, then we would see that on a cellular level your body is to acidic, and it's like how to work overtime. Yes. Keep you level. So basically, the argument would be that this blood test is not an accurate representation of your whole body acidity. And the nice thing about something like that like a concept like that is that I can't prove you wrong in the sense that I don't I don't know how to go in and sample. You know from from what organ system from where in the body. What cells are you worried about which environment and different parts of the body are acidic your stomach contents? Yes. Because that's how they that's how you break down food. It was kinda like everybody. Does this test is accurate? What my book presupposes? Maybe it's not exactly. So this idea, by the way is distinct from patients with certain conditions like chronic lung disease or chronic kidney disease are always at risk for a chronic acidosis their body works really hard to compensate for that. But they often have to obtain certain medical treatments to maintain their PA, especially like people who need dialysis if you don't get dialysis you you could become quite acidic. But you'll know because you get sick, right? And we have a distinct cause and a treatment for that. It's not some sort of chronic on testable undetectable cause of all disease, which is what it has become this secret cause of all disease. I have seen this concept of low level acidosis blamed for acid reflux, basically, any pain one of the main practitioners. We're gonna talk about one of the main proponents of this would simply tell his patients acid is pay. Paying pain is acid acid is the problem. It's that is the cause of all pain back pain muscle pain, bone pain, whatever cancer, and we're going to get into. This has been blamed for all of cancer. Any kind of heart disease, diabetes gout? High blood pressure. Kidney stones osteoporosis is a big one. All this stuff has been blamed on the concept of a chronic low level metabolic acidosis and what I'm gonna start off. With is the idea that maybe this isn't even a real thing. Sid. I didn't see that coloring. So just to tell you like where did this concept probably originate it probably dates back to a study done in nineteen ninety five by Dr Thomas Remmer and Frieder Mons who were looking at the effects that diets could have on P H, but not blood ph the peach of your urine. And the reason for this is that urine ph can be associated. With your likelihood of forming kidney stones lower urine, ph pre makes you more likely to have kidney stone. So they were looking at ways to raise the ph of your urine and prevent kidney stones that was the whole idea. So they looked different foods and the way that they were processed in the body, and they came up with the idea that some foods are acidic not like a limit is acidic acidic in the sense that they generate acid for acid compounds in your body and some are outline they generate alkaline com. Pounds in your body. And if you could mainly eat foods that are alkaline you're going to have more alkaline urine. The ph of urine will be higher, and you'll be less likely to form kidney stones. So this was the whole idea they were going for and they came up with this concept of a potential renal acid load PR AL value, and they gave foods different PR AL's right based on how much they would lower or raise the ph of your urine. And like I said, this is not obvious on this scale, a citrus fruit is actually an alkaline food why? Because it the because it is a Siddiq your body is going to generate alkaline compounds in response. So. Generally, speaking, fruits and veggies were found to be alkaline meats, dairy, grains, are acidic generally speaking on this diet, and so the research, the researchers came to the conclusion that if we can raise your P H and make it more alkaline. You'll have fewer kidney stones it had nothing to do with cancer. It had nothing to do with weight loss. Nothing to do with heart attacks at nothing to do with general wellness or anything else. They basically said this alkaline diet. Could help prevent kidney stones. It was mainly like a fruit and veggie base diet that seems like a lot of work to prevent one thing. What about all the things? Well, they weren't. I mean, they weren't studying that they were looking there. Typically on thing is just like that's like saying like. If you eat a diet of all, fruits and veggies bread, bananas them. We can help treat your. I don't know athlete's foot. It's like, well, that's a whole diet for one thing. What about all the homes one? I would say everybody's got a study something fine. People can't off study all you have to you have to focus. And usually, that's the way you make breakthroughs is by focusing on a thing and working really hard at it too. Have you ever had a kidney stone? Goal Griffin, Dan. So since you can feel your brothers pain. Just like those two guys from GI Joe, how was it? Bad. But like, there's all kinds of reasons to eat certain ways, it just seems like a while reason, I think if you got I've had one kidney stone in my life. If I were someone because there are certain conditions that predispose you to get in kidney stones law. And if I were one of those people who knew I was probably gonna get kidney stones on a regular basis. I might switch my diet around if that would help prevent it fair, they're really painful fair enough. All right. I want uncle these guys. No, I don't think these I mentioned the study because I think this might have been the beginning. I mean, we knew about the concept of acidity and alkalinity obviously prior to that. But I think this may be where some of this other stuff like this was the research milieu, which gave rise to this outlined diet. We're gonna talk so far thinker. Okay. Scientifically speaking. Yes. We're on solid ground, but we are about to leave earth and float into the into the. The sky's the realms of fake medicine. Let's go, but first let's make a pitstop at the billing department. Yeah. We'll we'll get some supplies space. Guys. Let's go. Our first month this week is Zip Recruiter. If you've got a job that you need to fill. Good news. We got people. Well, we don't have people. We don't have anyone we have a baby and a four year old. So if you need cotton candy eaten or things dumped over we've got the two staffers your organization, otherwise you're gonna wanna turn his peculiar, you know, what smart kicking off twenty nineteen planning out which rolls you need to hire. For do you need someone to spill things on the ground. Do you need someone to eat four pieces of macaroni and cheese and thirty eight thousand onto the floor. We've got the staff for you. But you probably want like she will also then eat them off the floor if you letter. Yeah. Sit in a matter. How old they are? But you salesperson or something either way you wanna turn. Ziprecruiter, the smartest way to hire. They've got this matching technology that helps find people for you. It doesn't wait for them to to find your gig at actively invites them to. Apply. It's no wonder that ZipRecruiter is rated number one by employers in the US and right now our listeners could try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter dot com slash Sol bones. You love this show in wanna show your support to solve bones are podcast and you want to find their best person for your job than head over to ZipRecruiter dot com slash Sabat. Mentioned squarespace. If you've got a neat idea that you'd love to see take root on the internet of. And there's no place ternan squarespace. They're going to help build the perfect website for you as long as it has nothing to do with an alkaline diet. Yeah. Exactly. You could sell products and services of all kinds except for alkaline water. It's a legal to sell those pace. No, no, no. That's not true, I advise against it vehicle. Customizable, templates created by world class designers right there at your fingertips. They kind of new way to buy demands and choose from ever two hundred extensions. There's free insecure hosting too. So head on over to squarespace dot com slash albums for free trial. And when you're ready to launch us, the offer code saw bones to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or a domain. One more time at squarespace dot com slash Sol bones for that free trial. And then when you're ready to launch is the offer code saw bones. Save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or a domain. All right. Justin. Are you ready for this? Yeah. And blast off. I don't mean in like a finely sports. Sports jam way. They're got you know, like. Prepared. So right now, I wasn't going to get. Did you say sports jam excellent? Thank you. That'll keep you running for the rest of the day. Thank you. Sports jam. Jock champs is that what you're thinking? I can remember this is the unlicensed city Rak, presented unlicensed collection of jock jams. Sorry. You already for something doodoo, dude. Dude. Dude. Different. I think he did. Okay. Bump the song pump. Okay. We are though a win or as my pal. Okay. Four stamps. A lot of. Okay. A lot of what follows is probably I'm gonna I'm gonna blame it on this guy. 'cause he seemed a lot of time looking for the right person to dunk on. I didn't I found him one of our listeners named him in an Email. And then I I looked him up. And I this was the cause of many of my tears. Robert Owen is who I'm gonna blame lot of this on. So I mean, it wasn't just him. I think there was this moment in the in the nineties when they're there was this sudden increase interest in the idea that we could acidify I guess or Alan is our bodies, which again, it's just it's wild to me, we spend so much time learning about acid base physiology, and like how all that works in the human body in medical school. And then applying it in the hospital, which I do frequently. It's I mean, it's complex and it takes time you have to math. And it's it's not something like your body is really good at it. When it's not good, you're sick. So the idea that like, oh, we could just eat things, and it's just wild. Anyway, Robert, oh, young was not is not he's still alive. He's just not practicing whatever he was practicing. You can't call it medicine. He is not a doctor. He was educated primarily at a non accredited institution. The Clayton college of natural health. So art, so the degrees that he received are not. Anything not accepted by the educational community at large as as Indy as indicative of any sort of body of knowledge, he did not have any credentials be proxy medicine as I said, he went as as evidence for this. He went from a bachelor's degree to a doctoral degree in eight months. Now that is tempting that I do find come to you, do you. So is he Dr robbery young always? Nah, he's Robert r young PHD is now he's not a PHD. He's nothing. What are you say? He's gonna doctoral degree because well, they gave him these degrees. But it was about a deployment. I mean, like, he he got all these supposed degrees. But he didn't actually have any sort of one of them was like a was a naturopathic degree that. He really didn't even have that. He didn't have any. He's not even good at the fake thing. There was one that was like a he got a doctorate of philosophy in nutrition or something. I I mean. There. He got a series of wild degrees. He had studied like business. He took like a random biology course here, and there he had taken some nutrition courses here and there he'd gone to school for a while. He never graduated from an actual accredited university. He just kind of floated around did some different training. And eventually got these fake degrees. He derived from this clearly. Excellent exemplary education that all human disease is blamed on acidity everything that's wrong with you is simply the result of too much acid. He's the one who I quoted earlier pain is acid acid is pain. Everything that goes wrong in your body is because you have too much acid in there. And so therefore all cures are an alkaline diet or an alkaline water or alkaline infusion. Whatever just Alkalis your body cures. Anything got to it's at simple. Only anything were that simple in medicine. It would be nice. So he also believed by the way in a concept just to underline kind of how wild these ideas are 'cause sometimes this stuff can sound not too far off. And maybe think well was he just like this really ahead of his time genius. And the rest of us are behind. He also believed in a nineteenth century concept called plea morphism. This was prior to us learning the germ theory of disease in widely accepting the idea that germs that we him believing. It was not prior to. No, no, this feary. This theory predates the germ theory of disease when we figured out like, oh, we get these germs from out there in the world or from other humans and they get in tight our bodies. And they make a sick. He believed that bacteria are actually red blood cells that have been exposed to acid. Now this plea Morfitt theory when you know out the window after. Germ theory of disease, but not for young who still believed it, and he would do something called live blood analysis. And I want to mention this because I think you might run into somebody, especially if you're someone who suffers from any kind of chronic illness, or who has to see multiple different kinds of doctors. Or who may be like is looking for a doctor 'cause you haven't had great experiences. You might run into certain practitioners, especially alternative medicine practitioners who will do this live blood analysis. This is not accepted by any laboratory medical organization. This is not a real examination as far as what it's it it. It's origins are in this plan Morphing theory. This idea that red blood cells will become back tibia that was what where it came from the the people who practice it will use it to tell you that you have too much acid in your blood or that you have a vitamin deficiency. Or I'll kind of things that they can then turn. Round and prescribe you a bunch of supplements that they usually also sell to fix all of these problems. And they will certainly find something wrong. It's one of those tests that they're going to do and they're gonna find something wrong. No, one can reproduce it. No lab does it. But he would do this teach this. He's got in trouble for this as well. As other things we'll talk about and he he basically thought treating diseases like changing the water in a fish tank that was one of his great analogies. If your fish is sick, do you treat the fish or do you just change the water in their tank? Listen fish, don't cost that much. I'm not sure I would either. But. Does he wrote a bunch of books about his ph theory as many many books about diet, and how to Alan is your body? He was on Oprah. He brought a patient with him on Oprah who claimed that he had cured her breast cancer. How dare he drag Oprah into this Oprah? I guess how dare you national stage. But still I haven't watched the interview I don't know how I don't know how skeptical or critical. She was a second, computer. You can that when through the wind. I know I just I couldn't then this this poor patient that he brought on with him who at the time believed he had cured her cancer died of cancer two years later. So he he did not cure cancer at the time. It looked like maybe she was in remission or something. But obviously did not care her cancer. He was brought up on charges many times throughout his career for fraudulent claims and false advertising. This lifeblood analysis he would perform these things. And that aren't real tests and then make people pay him money. He eventually started running a cancer clinic out of I mean, this big ranch that he owned he owned this. This giant ranch out in California. There's like a moat around it, and you have to cross like stones to get up to the door. And he he basically would bring patients out to his giant fancy ranch and treat them there. And he would treat them with like his diet alcohol. I was all about alkaline just out. You know, me eat this alkaline diet, drink this water. And like a lot of that probably is harmless in and of itself like eat more fruits and veggies. Okay. That's fine. Does it treat cancer? No. Does it cure cancer? No is it harmful. No. But he would actively encourage his patients not to seek out traditional medicine. But to just go with his cure. Ears. He would also do things like in fusions of baking soda. Unhelpful now that they're unhelpful. And in addition he would charge people at his ph miracle ranch. Thousands of dollars people. Who are the most surprising part? You've told me sitting. I never would have seen that park. Coming hachi Macci, what a shock people who are desperate who are diagnosed with advanced incurable in stage cancers would come out to his ranch and pay one patient paid like seventy seven thousand dollars before she ventured succumbed to the cancer. It's just it's it's agree. Jus-? It's a great GIS. What what he did with absolutely no basis for it? So eventually he was just in the last couple years. He was convicted of practicing medicine without a license. He was sent to jail for three years. He still currently in jail. And he was also sentenced in separate trial to pay one hundred five million dollars to one of his patients that he actively encouraged not to seek out treatment for her at the time stage one treatable possibly respectable breast cancer, which then by the time this court case was going on a head van advanced to stage four so I think a lot of like this concept of the alkaline diet, and that the you can alter your body ph significantly with eating and drinking certain things comes from. I mean, he wrote a whole bunch of books, and as it's funny as I was looking through. All of the books that he wrote these like they sounded. Familiar to me? Like, I think I've seen these books out there. You know, like the ph miracle and stuff I think I've I've heard of these I was looking for some of the ph miracle balance your diet. Reclaim your health the ph miracle for weight loss balance your body chemistry at your ideal weight. I feel like I've seen these out there in around you probably have to and they're all written by the sky who was a complete fraud who only was after money and was willing to. Let people die in order to. I mean, get money from them. Great. So I think from that not just him. But like from all these books, he published in all this renewed interest and focusing on cancer. I think that that unfortunately is a very effective method for some of these frauds to gain traction is that, you know, sadly, there are many times where a patient will come in with an advanced cancer. And a doctor won't have a cure. They'll have treatments they'll have waste management. But they'll have to be honest and say this is incurable. And I that that kind of desperation that that causes I think makes people more likely to seek out alternative methods of treatment. Because what have you got to lose kind of attitude, and so is the answer, and I'm and your health. Yes. And and so I think that these a lot of these frauds will prey upon that specifically because it's not as simple as you come to your doctor. You have. High blood pressure. They give you pill. Your blood pressure comes down great. I can fix that cancer. A unfortunately is not like that. So from this a lot of studies were generated looking at this concept of alkaline, diet alkaline water and ising the body in some way, there was a lot of interest initially focused on osteoporosis, because we know that an acidic environment. The body loses more calcium. So the thought was will lose bone density. Our bones will be weaker will be more likely to have osteoperosis in an acidic body. There's been some like correlation studies where they took like postmenopausal women who are more likely to have osteoperosis and looked at their diet and all this different stuff, and there were some correlations found with diet. But again, we're just looking at diets where like do people you a lot of fruit and veggies in addition to protein. And like, I mean, we know fruits and vegetables are good for us. So it's not kind of a hard thing to ask. Like are there? A million other reasons why people who eat a healthy well-balanced diet. Would be less likely to get sick than people who don't eat a healthy well-balanced diet. Of course. I mean, right. Everything else that it's been touted for is still under investigation. There's been a lot of evidence that is used to back up. These claims from studies that were done on patients who had actual metabolic acidosis. So instead of this possibly I would say almost certainly completely fake thing chronic low level acidosis that we all might be suffering from because of our North American diet. There are people who have actual acidosis usually in the hospital. I'm usually treating them for something. It's usually a patient with a respiratory or kidney problem could be other things though, diabetes can lead to this. And they've done studies on those patients to see like, what is that acidic environment? What other problems does it cause in their body? And they're using those studies as evidence for this other thing, but in these patients their ph was usually seven. Point two or lower true, acidosis, not this vague seven point three a sarong. Right. Exactly. Know these were actually sick people. So these things are it's apples and oranges. This this has nothing to do with it. And all of this is leading to a lot of conflicting dietary advice, right because we live in this age of I think we're still in a lot of carbs are bad. Don't eat carbs all carton. You know, stay away from all carbs eat a lot of protein. I think we are still very much in that moment in dietary history while this diet says no don't eat protein. Eat a little but too much protein is bad for you. So don't eat protein. They both agree. Whether you're going high protein or alkaline diet, they both agree that grains, are bad something. But but like, this this diet would argument this diet would argue that you don't don't eat meat protein. Don't eat any protein, which an my sister. Call me and say, that's fine. She's what she's protein. Yeah. You see she wouldn't even be falling alkyl diet. So in general, this concept of low-grade metabolic, acidosis, probably doesn't exist. There are no there's nothing to back up all the claims that it is the secret 'cause of diabetes and heart disease and strokes in cancer. You'll find that out there. There's nothing to back that up because again, if we changed our body ph this easily we would die every time we drink lemonade. So for outline water specifically, there's no hard evidence that it does anything. I mean 'cause it's born of this. The reason I give you all this background. This is where this comes from this idea this guy and everybody else who wrote books about the alkaline diet. This is where this argument for alkaline water comes in. There have been some suggestions that may be the minerals in the water, are helpful. So it's not really that. The ph is higher. It's that if you have more minerals in the water, it, can you can actually become slightly more hydrated from that water than you can from water that does. Have those minerals in it? And so maybe your hydration status is improved. And so like, your exercise tolerance and endurance might be a little better. Again. This is all investigational. This is just been kind of suggested the maybe you're better hydrated from drinking alcohol and water. Obviously they make claims for stuff like it will detach. The fight you, and it will fix your gut bacteria and all that stuff. I there's no research for any of that. Can it be dangerous? If you have kidney problems drinking water with all these extra minerals could be bad. I know I talked about the decrease kidney stones with Alan ization. And all that all these extra minerals could be bad for you. If you have kidney problems, so anybody with kidney problem should not drink this. Is it better than tap water? I have no evidence to say it is. I really don't. I I I think that if you're staying properly hydrated with water, and if you are among the people on this planet who have access to cheap clean water through your tap. Why are you wasting your money? On bottled water. Why are you wasting the plastic? I I'm those bottles. I mean, you're lucky you're lucky we're lucky speaking of I notice foolish main look to corporations for for leadership and things like this. But just a also like shame on you to like, Pepsi has life water. And by does an anti accident antioxidant water. And they're both marketed his ph balanced or in buys case. Like actual like low excuse me, low ph. Mike alkaline water. Hi, hi. Yeah. Sorry, because I think life water is not an alkaloid, exactly. Like, the GMO thing where these corporations wander into these things that they know nothing about and let latch onto you know, it doesn't have to be a flavor of the season. You know, what the hip flavor is? It's the hip like health thing that has no credence. But when you see the shelves line with things that say alkaline water, you know here. Good start to it lends credence to these quacks that are ripping people off. I mean because about your ripping people off by giving them expensive water that does nothing like, that's that's bad enough. But you're you're also beefing up the claims of these people these extremists nut jobs, pardon the expression. And it just so unscrupulous and gross. It really is an alkaline water. Some of the things I saw like it costs like twenty bucks for twelve one liter bottles. So it's it's expensive water. And there are some brands that are sold in a a multi level marketing also that's kind of two together to together. Yeah. And I I mean, I I would say this just drink water drink clean water, not raw water, drink clean water. If you I saw one dietician make this case, I like the way my water tastes when it's filtered. So I have a filter and I- filter. My tap water. I drink that. And I think that's fine. I think that if you prefer your filter water drinker filter that's so much better than buying a bunch of bottled water. I drink tap water. I during straight from the tap actually, fridge water a lot Bridgewater fridge water that cold fridge water. I, but I mean, I I drink it. I'm not worried about it Floride is good. I said that we're going to get emails. The OC a lot of the claims people tell you how to Allen is your water at home pitchers, you have to well, you have to buy stuff you have to buy equipment and some of the equipment for because it usually runs alongside I in his eyes ation of water as well that right? The device we talked about for water. I don't know there's one that's like two thousand five hundred dollars is no this is one that like hotels us. Yeah. No. That was the the air purifier. Yeah. Now, not the water, but you you can buy these things online. And I have no reason to think you should it's a lot of money. And I don't think no I don't have any evidence that they're doing anything to your water and the the link to removing Floride. And so that's that to me is a big red flag because Floride is not dangerous. There is no need to remove from your water. So why would you buy a device to remove fluoride from your water? I don't know if you necessarily with me on this. I have come. I I look at this stuff differently than I did. When we first heard Thomas, I used to feel like, and I probably have said this on the show like if you wanna spend your money on it. And it's not hurting anybody thin like the go for it. You know is hurting you whatever. I now at this point feel like is hurting it's hurt. It's hurting because you're Linden every like vote right is lending credence that you make your dollars is lending credence to these people that want to dismantle like science and reason and scientific thinking, I think every dollar you spend on a product that's been marketed as GMO is non Huma is reinforcing to those people that that's an important thing to continue to to focus on spread the word about and it doesn't matter. If if it's if it's not hurting you individually, I think that like we are at a point now where. Highlighting the truth and pointing the finger at actual real lies. Nonscientific lies is is more important than the sort of like live and let live, you know, if it's not hurting you then it's not hurting. Well, I would agree completely because I think I want statistic is researching this that thirty nine percent of Americans believe that cancer can be treated or cured by some sort of natural. Alternative thing. So the the idea that there are all these secret treatments that doctors won't give you I don't know what our agenda is. I don't know why we have this agenda that people keep placing on us. But there is a secret treatment, the doctors won't give you that will carry your cancer. You just gotta find the right person to pay to give it to you. This idea has taken deep roots in this country in our medical system. And the sad thing is people will seek this in terms of treatments that would help and they will waste their time in their money. And they're always going to be people. Like this Robert young guy who are willing to take advantage of them, which is incredibly sad. But those people will take your money and infuse you with baking soda, and then send you home to die and. I I mean, the best we can do is keep telling people it's fake. So spread the word. You know, like tell people that if you see someone mentioned alcohol and water like don't suffer it quietly. All this garbage like tell like there's like there's no point like if loved one like speak up if loved ones are like spending thousands of dollars in the trash like tell them sit in this episode. Tell them to do. Download it repeatedly. Tell me. Donates the maximum fund drive don't hesitate to support us financially? And just remember how lucky again if you live somewhere because not even everywhere in this country. If you live somewhere where you can turn on your tap and get clean water cheaply every day. You're lucky don't take that. For granted the same with podcasts if you can turn on your headphone and get cleaned podcasts. Every week don't take it for granted. Maximum fund, donate. I'm going back to water Flint still doesn't have clean water. Yeah. Folks. Thanks so much for listening to our program. Sorry. It was cheerier. We'll get you next time. Hopefully, I'll do something lighter next week. Are you suggested this alkaline water? I didn't know where it would take me. I had no idea. Thank you so much to the maximum fund network for having us as part of their extended podcasting family. Thanks to folks who sent stuff to our PO box. Carrington socks and slippers Lucius book about herbal medicine verandas for the onesie just for the book carry for the apron and blanket, thanks to able for the drawing of our theme song able has since Sesia, and she interprets music like our theme song as a visual imagery. She didn't paints which you can buy at McElroy merch dot com. Full. You should check it out. 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Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine
Aired 3 months ago 36:04
Deliciously Incorrect with Guest Heretic, Dr. Shawn Baker
Last week. We talked we Dr Shawn Baker about different aspects of the diet and the quality of meat raised on pasture versus race indoors this week. We explored the impact of modern food sourcing on humans is seasoning, meet ornate and hell do Carney worse. They ca- poop. That's coming up next on the nutrition heretic podcast. So I'm sure you've heard that as you age it gets harder to lose weight blessed because my friends Lauren Veronica chows, they can prove it. There are mother daughter duo and they've lost one hundred twenty five pounds between the two of them at ages fifty and twenty and kept it off for over two years without starvation deprivation, or hunger. So now, you can learn their system in a whole lot more with a free ten day trial to their online membership. They'll give you the diet, the recipes classes and more sign up today at nutrition heretic dot com forward slash at most diet. Is bad for your just up Bill and unfunny meet his murder. For bad food punishment for real nourishment dive or Christian heretic. The following program is provided as information only, and may not be construed as medical or health. Advice is not intended to diagnose, treat or cure any disease. No action or inaction should be taken solely on the basis of the information provided here, please consult with the licensed healthcare professional or doctor on any matter relating to your health and wellbeing. You don't when we talk about the issues that people are having with vegetables, we talked about the gas and the bloating in some people at shows up on their skin. You know, it's it can be contributing to just all those diseases. You just mentioned right, and those all appear to vanish when people adopt the carnivore diet. Now, this is a theory that I've been working on and tell me what you if you've encountered this. If you feel that there's any anything plausible in it. In addition to the animals, you say eating grass and converting the amino acids into a form that humans can consume. I've actually looked at this in recent years as well at a that. When people when when the animals are eating these grasses, for example, that they are actually converting them into almost like like the theory behind vaccine's, which is that they're converting it into a form that the human can now communicate with their local environment. Because of all all the changes that we talked about that have happened over millennia. It's really just in the last hundred years in addition to the invention of crisco and the corn oil and all this. It's really just in that last hundred years where people stopped consuming food from their backyard. So now instead of getting meat and milk from one animal we're getting it from like thousands of animals at one time instead of getting eggs from our locale where the chickens are eating the stuff. That's that's growing naturally. The eggs are being shipped from one hundred miles away. Do you feel that there is? Any? Any relationship with how humans have been reacting to food more and more? I mean, I think that's a valid point. I think that you know, animals were whatever kind of analyze evolve where it's location is whatever is in its environment. That's how these these these things have all of, you know, in when the, you know. You know, think about humans when it when it got cold when he I hit their environment change they had to evolve. And so you adapt to your local surroundings or you move or whatever. So I mean, certainly the fact that in the last hundred years mass transfer shipping food all over the world affect that. I can buy fresh strawberries in January in Canada that those things are unnatural to the human experience. Right. So I mean, yes, I do think there's something there. How much of an impact it causes is unclear to me, you know? But the other thing is, you know, at the same time we have to start to realize we got a lot of people to feed. I mean that we you know, we can't all have a chicken in our front yard account. We just can't do it. It's not gonna happen. I mean, there may be a few people that can do it. But to feed nine billion ten billion, whatever we end up within the next fifty years that that is unfortunately, not going to be the answer. We have to face reality is there has to be a way to feed all these human beings. You not not everyone of us can be formers not. Everyone can go out and run for food. It's just not practical. So we have to at some point say, what is the the realistic way? How do we we have to talk about economies of scale? We have to talk about officiency that has to be part of the equation. I mean, it'd be nice if we could magic say everyone has fifty acres to live on in. We have all the animals to feed us in the berries to that we can pick with that that that that time has passed on another planet. Maybe we call. It is more we can do that. But for now we have to figure out. We'll how do we most maximise efficient efficiently do this with the least harm to the planet with the most nutrition, and that's the challenge there. And so I think your point is valid it. I think for those people that are really concerned about that. You know, if you have the ability to to put a coun-, your backyard and pigging your backyard and have a have a blackberry Bush awesome. That's great. If you can do it. But most people are not going to be able to do that. So I'm more concerned about what do we do with the massive humanity here and so an equally their people. The vegan side, I think everybody in the world should eat. You know, eat a bunch of grains, and beans and legumes. And and we're all going to be happy. I don't think that's a solution. Either. I think we have to figure out how we incorporate animals into the human diet in how to do it at scale in how to do it without without the store in the world. Right, right. It's actually exactly so. Yeah. And when I said that didn't mean that each I should have won. But a at least in the places where I've lived there's usually within fifty miles or so somebody who is who is has taken it upon themselves to raise those local animals, and it's a lot of getting to know your farmer kind of thing though. I agree. I agree with that. And I I grew that totally. And I think that's a good situation. I think we should encourage that where possible, but it's still cutting back on the farm Bill for twenty nineteen so good luck with. That's the problem is, you know, again, it's it's the economy of scale makes it really difficult because you know, if you if you have a farm with ten cows. You know, you're gonna you're gonna you're gonna you'll less product than if you have if you have a form of one hundred cows. I mean, just you know, you're going to require more resources per KAI? You're going to require more. It's just it's just the way it works. I mean, we don't buy handmade cars anymore because it's so expensive and so resource intensive so we buy cows come from nut cows, you buy cars that come from the factory that are mass produced just because there's so many people. And so I mean, unfortunately, that's the reality of the world. And so we have to kind of figure out. How do we reconcile ourselves with that? So just want to touch on a couple of things that that when I talked to people about the carnivore diet. There's a couple of things that you know, that knee jerk reaction like we talked about first of all actually before I get into that. I want to ask you do do you season? You're me because I've seen this. We talked about being dog matter or not I've seen people say, you know, used I made something with garlic and hot sauce and get reams for you know, because the other person doesn't even use salt wherever you stand on flavoring, the me, and you only eat beef or also eating, you know, people talking about eating duck in chicken, I mostly me because I like it the most it's the most satisfying, you most people do as long term just kinda gravitate towards red meat, and in in beef in particular, sometimes lamb, I think that sort of more closely matches what we probably did growing up as humans, but I'll eat fish. I'll each triple eat all eat some pork every once in a while eats chicken once in a while not that often I'll have have a little bit of. Gary here there, I just I like salt on my mate. And that's what I typically do. But I'm not at all opposed to throwing some garlic on there or something spice, but the only caveat to that is if you have a particular health condition, and those things bother you then you just have to root root reconcile yourself to that. But if you if it makes meet more again, I don't necessarily think that all plants are evil and bad. I you know, I mean, that's I think it's been misconstrued. I think that they can't be for certain people. And I think there's problems. I mean, we we have this sort of you know, we should fruits and vegetables are completely benighted inert. And all they do is provide. Goodness. And I would say, no, there's Oxley solicits and fight Tate's a whole list of chemicals that people have problems with that good are in there and some people tolerate them. Well, so people don't so we just have to be cognizant of that fact. But so if you want to if you know spicing your meat makes it more pleasurable for you, it makes it more sustainable. I'm all for that. I told people do it works for you. And you know, even if. If you wanna throw some mushrooms on or some onions in there, you know, that is fine for you. If it worked for you now for many people, it just doesn't work, and I do think, you know, when you adopt this there should be a period of time where you kind of minimize all the variables, particularly if you're trying to solve a health problem you need to get out of this eliminating phase. And then you say, okay, I've done beef and water or whatever for three months, I met a baseline now. Let me let me add this back CO, I tolerate that. And you really you'll either tolerated or you won't and you know, you'll you'll get an answer with that. Not everybody needs to do that. I think it's more for people that are sick. Now, some people it's kind of funny because most people when they first started doing this, the people that sort of kind of became this community role these people that were really really sick, and they were desperate. I mean who the hell is gonna eat only meat unless you're frigging, desperate. Right. These are the people that I did this and they saw their health problems. They kind of made a little community. And then I I kinda got cutting bowl myself in that community. And then I started seeing the tremendous benefits. Potential here that I got to promoting this. And so now, I'm kind of where I'm at now. But I think the funny thing now is we're seeing a lot of athletes that have taken it upon themselves to try this diet out probably because I've had pretty good success as athlete with it. And so now, we're seeing a lot of people that are actually improving their performance quite a bit with this. And I think there's some reasons for that. I mean better protein, but a protein quality, you know, he Meyer, and there's there's creating there there's corner ten Karna seen, you know, it's not inflammatory improves recovery. There's less oxidative stress. I mean, there's a lot of reasons why athletic performance, it proves on this diet. And so it's been a really interesting sort of Kadhamy people. There's people that are really sick that really need to be strict, and there's other people that are doing it for whatever reasons lose a little bit of weight. But better athletically, try to crazy diet and say, hey, I'm a cool carnivore. You know, just you know, there are people are going to do that. But I think you know, I think here already covered this a little bit. But I think the Georgia people that do this. You know, they will find it works. Really, well, and they'll end up kind of staying pseudo carnivores kind of corner Gore's dipping in and out maybe spending a month here, and there, you know, eating most of their food from from from meat and using plants as seasonings as things to increase the enjoyment around meals. You can even argue that glucose can use a drug like affect you know, you can use it for performance and. And so I think that's where I think once you understand that in my view meat is humid nutrition. You know, by were to say if I were to ask you, what does a zebra you'd say grass? And if I'd say, what isn't elevated eats trees and grass and say, what is a light you say, eat zebras. And I'd say what humans eat you'd say twinkies ho hos. Because it's whatever's available right? But I mean, what what do we actually, you know, what did we eat fifty thousand years ago when when we didn't have all this variety, and we didn't have food companies making hyperpower little food and selling us stuff and targeting us, and you know, kinda chauvinist down her throat advertising twenty four seven what did we back, then I would say that, you know, a human being can thrive on just meet, and I think that's probably human nutrition. I think the rest of the stuff is more kind of kind of bonus material. And sometimes it's bothered. Sometimes it's good. Sometimes. It's not good. Right. Right. Yeah. And we did we definitely when it comes to pets and raising animals, I have two goats and people are much more fussy about what they will feed their animals than what they are. You know, like you said, we're we're much more accepting that the human animal can digest anything. Whereas I've got cats. I've got those have got chickens. Don't like each of those animal, they each require something very diff. And I wouldn't think to give any of them, and they know better. Luckily to eat something that's not right for them. Yeah. I mean, I think this is the thing, you know, if you put an animal in wild. I mean, they're they're generally not going to have chronic disease. They might get injured the Mike it ineffectual or something like that. But they're not going to have heart disease, typically, not going to have cancer. They're not going to have diabetes or they're gonna eat. What what what's designed for them? What's appropriate in? No one is sitting there's sanding there with a table saying, this is the this is the recommended daily allowance of this nutrient there, they don't need a calculator. Eat known gives them a menu. I don't get my dogs a menu and say, what would you like to eat today? I mean, I give them the same old slop every day, which is just a bunch of meat who my dogs, and they're happy as can be there healthiest can be it. And they don't have to think about it. And I think that is how nutrition should be. It's just you know. I don't think you know, think about it you and I breathe the same air every day. I mean, maybe you're Aaron Hawaii's nicer the Meyer. But I mean, I sit there and I need to have multicolored air different flavored air to breathe every day. It's just it's just normal. It's a normal function. And I think nutrition. Should be that way. Or can be that way. Now, we we've you know, there's a lot of cultural and social stuff and entertainment stuff this around. Attrition. We socialize around that and that sort of and that's a different issue. But just from a nutrition standpoint, it should be something. We don't need to think about you know, we should eat when we're hungry. I mean, I mean, you think about what other animals it's stop watching says oh fasting? I can't eat until you know, X amount of hours. I mean, they just eat when they're hungry. And when they're not they don't eat. And I think that is how animals are designed and human beings in my view are still animals, and I think we we can find something that's very simple. And that's what happens with the corner of diet. I mean, most people this the the the eat a bunch of meat tiller full. And then they don't eat again their pool again, and it works really really well. And I think that that is very powerful, and it's very freeing for people because a lot of people say so restrictive you'll but at the same time if people all of a sudden find out that I don't have to plan meals. I don't have to calculate. I don't have to. I don't have to obsess about this. And that detail I just I just eat when I'm hungry, and I enjoy the food most people enjoy nicely. Stake in. So it becomes almost very freeing. It's kind of funny at this paradoxical sense of freedom from eating this, basically one food, which is which is very interesting. You don't have to think about it. You don't have to plan. Like, you were saying, you just you know, as long as you have it on supply just throw it in a frying pan or in the grill, whatever, and and you're done, right. So before I let you go just a couple of questions that come up for people is one pooping. You know, what's what's going on there? I've heard I've heard everything from got constipated, which is what happened to me when I tried it. I might go back in and try it again because it's actually not very different from several other. Diets. Well, obviously, the probably most notorious one would have been at at least the early stages of Atkins. But you know, what's heard everything from constipation too, runny diarrhea? Yeah. Those are all common. So let let's talk about a little bit digestive function. So one thing we know we know that in the literature looking at patients have Ilyasova me so patients patients of their colon removing. So they have a little pouch till their small intestine is connected to a pouch colon. And so when we watch what happens to those people when they digest meet it is almost completely digested only a small amount of a little bit of liquid comes out. And so what happens is you're used to these big sort of fibrous bowel movements because that material is undetectable. It just kind of passes through us. And so we don't have that anymore. So what happens is instead of true constipation constipation means you're full of material, but you can't get rid of it. Most people will they just don't produce anything. So a lot of people that takes them three four five days a week. Maybe sometimes ten days before they have the first Balbo. It's just because there's no material anymore to get rid of. There's nothing you're wasting your absorbing all that nutrition rather than flushing it down the toilet. And so. That's what happens initially for many people. That's that's the misconception. Most people have. No that. No. Conversely, there are people that will fund that they have a loose bowel. Because again, like I talked about what goes into the coal and now instead of this semi solid fibers mass is now all liquid going into the coal from the small intestine. And so what hap- the job of the colon are one of the jobs of the coal is to reabsorb pollute and electrolytes. Well, if it's been used to seeing fibrous stools for for twenty years, there's not as much fluid at has to deal with relatively. So it's not very efficient think about it. When a baby is born is breastfeeding ski or getting formula. Sometimes you know, it has a form stools has it has semi solid stools because a colon. Israel's orbison the fluid even they're all there on one hundred percent liquid diet. And so what happens is a colon is still seeing a hundred percent liquid diet now, and it just takes a while for that for that sort of mechanism to kind of wind back up. It's like an athlete this out of shape. It's been sitting on a couch for thirty years, and you go. Hey goes, go run. Breath on now, he's not going to be able to do it right away. He's got it. He's got to get back that capacity. So it takes people. You know, what I'm talking about illu steals diarrhea takes people a couple of weeks to even little longer for that to kind of settle down. That's generally the case. Now, there's certain foods tend to cause issue. Some people find that eating a little more fat in the diet will help move the ball a little better people. Find things like eggs or pork tends to make them have a little more diary sometime back to seasoning, some people funded seasoning and spices will will precipitate about of runny soles diarrhea. And so I've seen that with myself out to eat at a restaurant. They'll put much spice in there in the next day. I'm like, oh, man. You know, it didn't work too. Well, but but but but that that's what's going on not. You know, you're not designed for because humans are really well. Designed to absorb me if you haven't been doing it without fiber four decades, it just takes time to adjust to that. Right. Right. Yeah. Because I was definitely I really feel like for me. It was actual constipation because I was also not like letting go of water, and I was getting waterlogged could feel my stomach just like filling like without me extremely thirsty. But then on top of it. I just felt waterlogged and my legs got very heavy with water. And as soon as I ate a little something. I forget, I think it was pumpkin. Then all of a sudden, it was like everything just came out all the water just just just moved. So something's going on. There could be. I mean, there's certainly like I don't know if you've been on Akita before, but they're certainly fluid electrolyte shifts that occur. When you drop the carbs out of your diet. So you have to. So you have to get the manager electrolytes a little bit. You know, those things happen. You know, there are people again don't have a great capacity digest me, particularly in the upper GI system. You know, because there's some gas production has has decreased. Over time. That's that's that's a we often. Consider that a natural consequence of Asia. I'm not sure I think that's probably a consequence of probably disease, and I don't I don't think necessarily aging because I think there's people that maintained very well throughout their life. And so those things could be a problem. Some people have to add supplements like hydrochloric acid supplements like detain hundred chloride ally pays is or even bios bio supplements, you know, those things sometimes have to be done initially for people that have a difficult time digesting me, I think if you can't will just meet then there's a problem with your digestive system. That's what I think I do that you should be able to do that. Well, but I think many people have you know, it's interesting if you look at the group, the paleo medecine group who's done some research around his carnivore died out in Hungary, where there were there dealing with autumn you disease in some other things what they're seeing is about eighty percent to ninety percent of the of the healthy normal population. Have some level of good to spoke Shen with regarded good permeability walking around there. Even though they feel. Normal in their healthy. They still have some degree of dysfunction. And so, you know, most of it. It's up clinical. We don't notice it. When I when I changed my diet. I had had you know, what what I thought was normal digestive function, you know. But then when I realized it got so much better that that maybe it wasn't normal. We accept sub optimal as normal because it's so common. But I think when you when you discover while my the things I thought were normally when you get older, you kind of you kind of expect to have some make joints and creaky knees. A little bit sore back, and I was developing this. I'm in my fifties now, and now I'm Dunkin basketballs and doing backflips and breaking world records on the rowing machine deadly shooting five hundred pounds reps and stuff like that. And I don't hurt at all. I have no joint pain. None of that stuff. It went away. So what I had normally accepted as this is normal aging. And then when that all went away, I'm like, wait a minute. This is very different to play to play like I'm twenty years old again, which is really cool. Right. Yeah. That's one of the reasons somebody. Like this diet because they experience that and are like, wait a minute. This is the best I felt in three or four decades. Yeah, it's interesting. This is this is actually a problem. I've been having with the medical industry is that it's it's completely designed to expect the human body to fail, and it's in it's focused on the shortcomings of the human or what would like to see as the shortcomings of the human body as opposed to the rule number one. You learn in medical school, which is home stasis that, you know, your body's always trying to balance things out, and you know, if you're not putting in the right stuff. It's not gonna balance out in a direction you want it to. It's got a he's got a you're gonna have to pay for it somewhere. Right. Yeah. I mean, the, unfortunately, we've kind of as a medical as a healthcare system we have. I mean, it's kind of because we've got so many sick people now, and we've got such a such a, you know, whether it's diet, whether it's environment, we have such a environment that produces sick people. Yeah. And I don't think we're well trained to deal with that. We don't know how to fix that. We don't we don't know what the cause are in. So medicine really is all about a symptom management disease management. It's putting on expensive bandies what I was doing joint replacements on people. Yeah. I mean, I made their knee arthritis feel better. But it didn't fix the problem. I mean the next year they'd be back with her other knee. They still had the disease they still had to the metabolic disease which manifest itself in the joints arthritis. And so because I didn't fix it as they got another expensive bandage. And you know, they they were happy they felt better. They were out of there weren't as much pain. But what I should have been doing is saying. Less fix though, the the ongoing problems. So you don't need all these dams seat all this stuff. And so that is the problem that most physicians they don't have the one. They don't know. I mean, they haven't they they don't step back with the big picture there. So compartmentalize and we've got specialists we've got, you know, left ear specialists and right? I'm all specialist miss gotten crazy, really, you know, no, one looks back seven the GP's guys. I mean, they're so overwhelmed that they've got five minutes to spend with their patients. It's really a system that's designed to not it's Zion to produce very average health in a lot of people avoid some complete disasters and can deal with disasters and key people alive, but it does not promote health. And I think that's a big distinction. You don't go to the doctor to get health. And you go there to not become acutely dead. I mean, I think that's you know, I mean that is probably what happens, and, unfortunately, there's a lot of money in that system. There's a lot of money tied up in. There's a lot of people profiting from people being sick at counts. Sounds cynical and jaded to do that. But I was in that system for many many years. Yeah. It's it's frustrating really frustrating physician that you're like, you know, you know, you're making your career off of a bunch of sick people in Neo you're trying to help them, honestly. But at the same time, you're not doing what you should do in my view. I think you should we should not have my goal is for no people ever have to see a doctor that would be that would be a great goal. I mean that would be that would be all that would be totally unless there's some acute trauma or they're having exactly what it used to be right before before corn oil cardiologists only saw people. Right. I mean, that's you know, again, can we get back there. I'm. Certainly hopeful, but also realistic about it. I mean, there's there's there's a lot of money, and there's a lot of you know, gosh, there's a lot of effort. Yeah. Somebody was telling me not that long ago about it was the book think thinking grow rich, the Polian hill where he discusses I believe it was Henry Ford was known Henry Ford Rockefeller. It's Jonty Rockfeller of wanting to make healthcare the next big moneymaker. And that's kind of where our system was was the foundations of our system. Apparently, go back to that. You know, how do we scare people into doing what we want? I mean, it's it's you know, if you look at I mean, I looked at the federal lobbying statistics, I think from last year, and it was like the number one federal AVI money comes overwhelmingly triple anybody else was was the pharmaceutical industry. I mean, they can just tons of money and then then right behind that was a health health insurance industry. And so and so it's like it's like. There's a lot of money in this stuff. And so, unfortunately for you, and I and most of us out there just trying to make it through life. We got we've got some hurdles in our way. I think the nice thing people like, you know, you're getting messages out there. I think social media is really disrupting this getting their information from new sources I like to term the democratization of medicine. There's a lot of people that are coming up here and saying this car movement is is in part of that is they're saying, wait a minute. I you know, I got better when I did this instead of what they told me. And then all of a sudden, you've got now ten people know, hundreds of thousands of people all seeing from the same song sheet, and some people will say what's masses, no sus, placebo effect? But I think there's something there. And I think there's some there's some goal to be mined in that in that sort of framework, and I think people should use social media as a way to really advance our knowledge and advance, you know, the the health of humanity. I think we're getting there. Well, see some people saying don't get your information from the internet and on the one hand, I get it on the other hand, I'm saying, well, you know, what if the standard practice worked and doctors listened more to the needs of their patients people would not need to turn to the internet to get the information will I mean, it's more, you know, the market the market is dictate. You know? I mean, ultimately be won't results. Go wherever you get results. You know, you don't need, you know, you can tell if you're sick. I mean, in many cases, I mean, if you're depressed in your overweight, no beast and everything hurts. You know, you can tell that, you know. And then when that goes away, you're like, wait a minute. I did this. And it went away. I'm better. I mean that that that doesn't take randomized control trials in millions of dollars research money to do that. I mean, the average person I think you I think it's important for us to do some research and do that stuff and spend the money there. But I think the most important research study is the one you do on yourself. And I think it's very important you empower yourself to do that. And find out what works for you. Yeah. And that's that's a huge problem because I do know way too, many physicians of all strata who they rely on the the the the studies, but they don't rely on their own patient population. So they don't hear that. These patients are saying, hey, duck. I tried this thing and I'm getting better. Instead, they're like, well, you know, there was a study that said that's bad for you. So you shouldn't be doing that. That is backwards. Well, I do have other questions for you. But I know that you've got to go. I've also gotta go. Thank you so much. Sean baker. You have a book coming out. I do. Yeah. The carnivore diet simpler should be out. I don't Seville for preorder on Amazon and Barnes and noble, senior speak in this look up carnivore diet. Sean Baker d. You know, I've got I'm pretty active on Twitter and Instagram Twitter. It's a speaker MD on Instagram. It's Sean H A W N B, aka our nineteen sixty seven. I've got a nice whips. I could meet heels dot com, or we have people that are submitting their pretty pretty darn impressive stories about going on a carnivorous diet. And reversing a lot of which I think is worth people looking at it might inspire people to try it try this again. Try it again because I feel like it's got something in there for me. We'll try it. You know, I would say I would say give it minimum thirty days. No, roughly, preferably if you could do it for sixty to ninety days that would be a fair test of it. And then if it doesn't work than say, it's not worth it's not worth it for me. But I think it's something you can use as a tool in your tool. Chest fish, and but to be fair, I think you need to give it a little bit longer time in eighty to adapt. And if you need a specific hit me up on an Email or something like that. I'm always happy to that. I am doing I do some consultations for people. I've got a lot of people that have specific issues. And so I have consultation stuff that people can hook up with me on that stuff and trying to think what else. So that is kind of where I'm at these days. We've got the world carnivore tribe on Facebook. We've got a little over twenty twenty one thousand people now we started January twenty thousand plus and we're growing by a hundred plus people every single day more more people doing it there. There's a good community that supports people for that. And then we've got the vegan recovery group for XP. I know. I would tell people about you know, the recovering vegans that I work with us make it sound like it's a drug group in. But it's true. That's what they're trying to. Get get their health back from. Exactly like, I said, I think do it worked for you. As Yeltsin message here. I think I cur Nivose diet might be not guaranteed, but might be the solution for you. And I think it's worth trying. If nothing else has worked, and you're willing to do it. Like, I said, you get to eat a bunch of wonderful steaks, and you know. You know, most people are pretty happy to sign up for that. I think women in particular have been so brainwashed. Eat the salad with USAir undecided. Skinny piece of chicken breast, and and sit there and be completely unsatisfied and bloated. And I don't think that's the way to spend your life. You know? And so I think women in in even more so than men probably need up their protein and upper meat intake you. Yeah. Well, I've been trying to get a French doctor Alan de LA boo on the show, and he won't don't think he understands what a podcast is the French until a lot of this stuff. But he is he's he designed a diet back in the eighties. That was you know, kind of probably wear a lot of your ad Herranz that that go off the diet eventually end up, which is, you know, it's like he he focuses on cholesterol for the breakfast with just a tiny bit of of like, you say bread or some other kind of green. And then lunch is a half a pound of meat or red meat usually with. A small amount of starch potato like more of a vegetable type starch, and then he has a little like nuts fruit in for luckier teatime afternoon snack and then for dinner. He's like eat all the fish and chicken you want with like a tablespoon of salad. So, you know, it's not it's it kind of points to this not being that radical especially because back in those days, particularly Europeans were not on board with, you know, kind of what we look at these extreme diets, but he was kind of going back to you know, how do the French really eat. What what's what was before people had all these diseases how people eating and and he also has reversed numerous you help people reverse numerous health issues and look younger lose weight at eighty years old. They hadn't been able to lose all their lives and stuff like that. So there's definitely a place, you know, to look at these. These types of diets the a lot of similarities there, and I think you know, if it works. It works great. You know, I don't think we should we should we should discount anything that actually gets results. And I think that's what we're after. You know, I just look at Makita genyk dies people talking about it the benefit to that. I say, well, how how would how would ancient man prehistoric man have been in Kito Sohn, I and I look around and I see a bunch of mammoth bones. And I'm saying. Ah-ha big fatty. That's how they get it. So I mean, yeah, you know, what was realistically done. I mean, they weren't eating quest bars. And they weren't sucking down him CTO, all I can tell you that or butter coffee. I mean that that wasn't happening. So I mean, you go like that with his beneficial and inert, some reason to think that then, you know, maybe maybe they did that in fasting has been official. There's this whole thing about topics. You will what would what would how would may likely fasted would have set there with a stop watch already gorged himself on a bunch of big mammoth meat and then not eating for a day because he was full. I mean, I mean that to me makes a reasonable way of how that would have been done. Yeah. We could talk forever. I can tell what maybe part two down the road. Maybe the books out of something like that. I think this might be a two part as it is. All right. Well, thank you so much again. His name is Sean Baker. That's S H A W N dash Baker dot com. Ironically, his last name is Baker. So I'm sure you hear that all the time. Thank you so much for your time. The book the carnivore diet look for it on Amazon dot com, and we'll talk to you later. Attrition podcast a production of Seaver the journey. LLC? Our audio editor is Nikola puff of our podcast manager is crystal McLean, and our operations manager is Michelle med. I'm your host catering. Hugh heretics you can find us at the new and improved attrition. Eric dot com. Where you can download the nutrition era ticks free shitless of seven hell phones, like the place. You can also listen to previous episodes at nutrition, heretic dot com slash podcast short like us, a social media updates our Facebook page as thanks. Slash nutrition heretic and on Twitter at trae era tank. Contact us what hell ideas questions are warrant abuse fist. And don't forget to our podcast on itunes, Stitcher.
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