3 Episode results for "Chris Irish"
YouTube's Junk Science Problem
"So Jamie what were you up to this weekend. I watched a lot of Youtube and specifically a lot of climate. Denial on YouTube So I want to get the straight Several one hundred million Americans are watching the Super Bowl scarfing up nachos beer and you're sitting in your living room watching climate conspiracy videos on Youtube. Yeah I don't know what to tell you I was trying something out. We've been hearing a lot about youtube. Algorithm the thing that determines which videos get recommended for which people it it often pushes people to extremes which kind of makes sense. I mean youtube once more engagement on its videos. And those extreme videos get more clicks. Sometimes Games you'll start watching one video and before you know it you've ended up somewhere completely different and so you did this for climate change content. Yeah Yeah and I did this because this report order came out recently from a vase. It's Global Activism nonprofit and the report said the youtube algorithm is still pushing videos viewers with lots of climate this information formation. I wanted to see where the algorithm would take me. And what did you find. Well things got weird. I I typed the phrase global warming and then I clicked on a video from CBS News. Global warming is always a hotly contested pun intended issue that generates widespread debate the scientific community though there is a strong consensus that global surface temperatures have been dating okay so I thought great this is credible climate journalism. Then then. I scrolled through the videos that you thought I might WanNa Watch next. Most of the videos were really credible but one video stood out to me. It was was from Fox News. It had two point seven million views. Why are all these other government models thirty? One of them is wrong. And why do they all go in the same direction up the because they are all parameter is translate parameter is into English fudged edged. Okay the don't get the right answer. Don't know the right answer and from there the recommendations actually shifted a little bit. I wasn't flooded with bad science. A lot of the recommendations were really credible but it was like once I crossed over some invisible line. I definitely noticed a different kind. The beauty so there you have it again like she talks about people are dying right now. Greta that is dying from climate change. Who is saying this little girl? I'm worried ah the climate has changed. Remarkably little but the cry of global warming has grown evermore shrill his whole warming thing. It doesn't make any sense fact. It seems that the less the climate changes the louder the voices of the climate alarmist get. Jimmy what does this mean. I think it means Youtube has a big climate problem and it hasn't solved yet. This is climate twenty twenty a show about climate change and the twenty twenty election. I'm David Gelber of the climate media company the years project. I'm Jeff Nesbitt. I run climate nexus a climate communications group in this episode. Climate climate. Disinformation on Youtube. And what it says about the broken political system that's a lot. Climate denial to thrive online. We'll take stock of how junk climate science is still spreading on the site. And then we'll go deep with. Vox writer David Roberts who breaks down the historical and philosophical roots of the problem if the Status of the institution itself comes into question. What is youtube supposed to do their right if it if it backs science science which is which is sort of the traditional mainstream way of fact checking right? It's checking with science then. It is implicitly or even explicitly release citing against conservatives in that argument plus we'll go to Iowa in here from voters about how climate played into their choices But I I wanNA tell you that. Climate Twenty twenty is powered by Exelon. The Nation's largest clean energy provider excellent stands with the vast majority of its ten million customers who want cleaner cleaner air and affordable reliable energy for more information visit Exelon Corp Dot Com All right so Jamie. Let's put some numbers to this. How big is this problem? This is a huge problem. So the you've also report takes issue with Youtube Algorithm the way it serves a recommended videos and is up next feature has a huge influence. What people see on the site It's actually responsible fanciful for seventy percent of the time people spend on YouTube. It's responsible for the vast majority of the videos that people actually watch on Youtube so so someone who devised did what you did over the weekend. But but in a more systematic way exactly for the term global warming the term. I searched sixteen percent percent of the top. One hundred related videos. Had this information about climate change so we now know that this is a problem for all kinds of junk. Science and conspiracies. Youtube knows is this is a problem and they end addressed it to some degree. Twenty Eighteen Youtube said it would change the way it pushes people to content and how it flags deceptive videos for reviewers but Based on what you're saying it sounds like that hasn't fully worked no it. Hasn't it's so hard to police. This is an ongoing issue. In fact this week Youtube repackaged this set of standards for the elections saying that it won't allow Dr Videos or voter suppression videos mm-hmm but look Youtube and facebook and twitter these companies see themselves as platforms not outlets that have a journalistic duty to sort through information so this alternative universe of climate is information. It may never go away. The question is how easy will it be to get sucked in and and I just want to be really clear. This is just my experience. I'm a reporter. I'm not a researcher. But my experience was similar to what the report described. A lot of people are watching in commenting on these videos. And they got their through Youtube 's recommendations. But just a few clicks so let's set the context here. Jeff you follow the smearing of Science for decades in your organization climate. Nexus has been covering the Youtube story for a couple of years. So how big an issue is this. Has Youtube fuelled old denial groups that may not otherwise have found an audience. I think this is an enormous issue and it to to set that context the National Science Foundation when I was in SF. I commissioned a report a decade ago that that asked one hundred climate scientists. What do we know about climate change? It was a comprehensive report. The first one really the Federal Government Limited issued to address the entire range of what we know about climate science. My reward for doing that. Was that the Republican staff on the hill. Threaten g investigation to me for politicizing the issue. So that's how far back this goes. This has been a politicized Issue around climate enough for years and years and years. The good news is today. The mainstream media doesn't uncover climb to Noni more but that's not true online. And if you look at what Jamie saw on Youtube Nexus media which is An arm of climate. Nexus has been studying this for a couple years. There's we we wrote a story about this months ago. About how if you wander into Youtube you're gonna find these climate videos that get tens of millions of us. You know one of the ironies of this is that a lot of viewers have gone to youtube because they think that the big media is giving telling lies about all kinds of issues right nearly thirty percent of of of the country's getting news from Youtube. Now I mean that's a huge amount of people and I and I'd be willing to bet you that our Jimmy. How long did you spend on youtube while you were Going through these climate. Denial is spent a solid few hours on Sunday night. Just going down down the rabbit hole and that's just one day of your life. That was lost down that rabbit hole there are some people lose days and weeks and maybe even months down that rabbit hole. I mean think about what that does brain after you've been exposed to all of that over a long period of time. Thanks Jamie Jamie. Kaiser is a producer for climate twenty. Twenty yeah thanks so Google facebook and twitter are under immense scrutiny. This election season. How are they going to regulate deceptive content on these platforms platforms that essentially act as public squares but our next guest wonders? If we're missing the bigger point it's futile futile. Hoping that Youtube will play this role like all other institutions have failed. So it's like now. We're turning to youtube a youtube to preserve truth our decency or these sort of values that we've kind of feel slipping away or becoming contested or controversy`l zeal. That's what I wanted to make. Clear is sort of the larger context. So that's that's David Roberts staff writer. Vox who's focused on energy climate. Talk Politics actually. A great journalist covering the climate issue Davis known for his deep dives into the forces behind the subjects. He writes about David sympathetic to the concerns over youtube policies but he argues that if we really WANNA stop climate conspiracy theories from spiraling out of control on the platform. We you need to step back much further and examine how our brains work. He wrote a fascinating piece on the subject he digs into the work of Daniel. Common the Nobel Prize is winner psychologist and economist. Who identifies two forms of thinking system one and system two system one thinking comes from your gut your instincts stereotypes subconscious reactions and search for confirmation bias for for facts? That confirm which already believe system to thinking is slow calculated. It's our traditional way of thinking about thinking Dave Roberts spoke with the busiest podcast superhero and our executive producer. Steven Stephen Lacey. About his recent piece on the subject they talked about why knowing about these systems thinking can help us understand. Why Youtube is so vulnerable to disinformation? The whole point of Cannon's book and work with to sort of break down this notion of rational of people as rational actors and his his in his point was that we're not rational actors in a million different ways. Most of the time we're sort of ruled by this system one thinking most of the time we're reacting with our gut with our instincts that have been programmed into us that we're not even really consciously aware of most of the time we use system to thinking just the justify whatever system. One burps up the whole point of that was to say. I think that there's something analogous going on at a social level at a collective collective level I think there's something like system one thinking at a collective level which is just all are kind of group are sort of tribal instincts are group. Instincts stinks our instincts to hugh to our own identity to trust and and be and be good to people who are inside our identity and to mistrust and exclude people outside it and then sort of the equivalent of system to at a societal level is institutions government government journalism science. I think is a great sciences. A great example so the idea is even individuals are always subject to system one thinking we'll always revert to it under stress or difficulty collectively. The institution itself can achieve Steve Something like system two thinking so as you outlined. The modern conservative movement has succeeded by calling into question S. Two Systems. uh-huh how have they hijacked those systems. How have they call them into question and raised doubts about them right? Yes so for the last. I mean the thing about s to our system to institutions and systems and rules is that there. Are there occasionally going to restrain your system one impulses in your group interests right. They're going to say no. You have to set your group interest aside for this longer term goal. This is how people live together right in a pluralist society is everybody set aside at least to some extent their immediate group interests in service of this longer project so like it might be in my immediate group. Interest is to go steal things from vulnerable people right but we have these rules in place so that we can live together but the problem is conservatives really starting in like really in the in the nineteen fifties honestly but like building and building and building since then have felt that these system to institutions in the. US You ask are just posing as system to institutions but actually. They're just liberal right. It's just a group identity thing it's liberals have taken them over in liberals are imposing their S. one interests under the guise of S. two institutions. So so what they started doing in the fifties and sixties and ramping up in the seventies and eighties and especially as ramping up in the nineties it started basically attacking and criticising those institutions institutions and more to the point building their own set of weird like parallel institutions. kind of these weird funhouse mirror institutions. That look like system to institutions right. It's sort of mimic the verbiage and the and the form but were in fact had none of those self correction and mechanisms. And in fact were designed to produce information amenable to conservatism right. Just sort of designed to enhance and bolster conservatism. So the classic example. Here that everybody's familiar with is kind of Fox News. They became convinced that journalism journalism was dominated by Liberals Right. Nixon was convinced of this. I always think it's fascinating that Nixon met with Roger Ailes none other than Roger Ailes to discuss making making a conservative news network like they had been thinking about that for a long time and they did that with with You know they've created think tanks that are sort of the same way kind of like they look like think tanks but really they're just cranking out conservative propaganda they created you know even sort of like shadows scientific institutions so this brings us to the social media platforms which are the latest institutional battleground for the same. I'm long fight that conservatives have been fighting for six years now so here we are social media and more specifically youtube and as we all know this is the place where the most fringe in conspiratorial ideas have found home in mainstream culture juror because of the way the site was built because of the Algorithm and it has thrived on them as a result it makes it has historically made a lot of money on Conspiratorial ideas and so under pressure youtube in two thousand eighteen says we are going to change our policy. We're going to start to have have standards on what kind of information that we That we have out there. When it comes to climate change we are going to put Notices noticed below videos to explain the science behind climate change and to try to deliver facts but this is really more than a mathematical fix. It's not a tweak to the algorithm it's not putting a block of text up it gets to a deeper crisis we face in society as we look at the attack on institutions. and You write about this in your piece you you say. The conclusion is unavoidable to trust establishment. Climate Science as the arbiter of truth on climate change is to take a side against conservatives. So what do you mean by that. What kind of place is Youtube in? That will prevent it from fixing this problem. Truly right right I guess the best way to put it as youtube wants to be. You WanNa be neutral regarding truth and falsehood right. It wants to be on the side of truth. Institutionally it it does not want to stand behind misinformation so it does not want to be neutral in that fight but it does want to be neutral in the culture war in the political battle between between right and left it is not wanna get embroiled in what it sees as sort of ideological fights between these two large political factions because Youtube ultimately is a business and they want all customers and they don't want to be right a business just for it just for liberals and also it's worth noting Republicans run the federal government right. Now which has quite a bit of power over Youtube and and can incredibly threaten to do it great harm so they don't want to get in the middle of fights between Liberals and conservatives they I don't WanNa be seen as on liberals side if you want if you want to be neutral. Factually you can't be neutral ideologue. That's what this whole fight. Fight is about and now youtube now is being forced to be the arbiter of this to decide and it just can't there's can't satisfy both those goals but isn't that because climate change is so unique as a crisis. I don't think it's unambiguous to a lot of people. I mean it seems like an issue that is so easy to hijack because yes the science is clear but it's not impacting people until now we now show the impact people bowl end so experts and institutions screaming on rooftops about how severe the crisis. But it's an easy issue to hijack because people aren't feeling it and they're starting to feel now and that seems to me to be beyond the ideological issues that we're dealing with. I don't think so I would push back on that a little bit. I mean there's a this is a this is a long ongoing debate. Among climate people are sort of like if people experience climate change in direct personal way sort of direct traumatic way science. Are you know a hurricane or whatever that will jolt them and wake them up and activate them about climate change. But I but but I just think if you're if you're ideologically committed to denying climate change it's easy to assimilate any bit of evidence like the the conclusion that a a hurricane is climate. Change is not self suggesting you know what I mean. It's not something that like. A person is going to conclude just from standing out in hurricane. It's still ultimately. There's an element of trust there. There's it's still an element of who do I trust to tell me what this means right like even in personal experience you're still there's still an element of like trust in institutions and sources of knowledge. That that you rely on so our systems have so thoroughly been eroded. We're now looking around for something that we can solve. These tech company's a company like youtube or Google are the targets now and people are saying well we just need to the Avaz report. Here are some suggestions. Change the algorithm change. What people see when you're recommending videos it feels kind of small given the enormity of the problem? We're facing but I will argue for its importance because these are private companies have effectively become de facto public squares. So they do matter they. Clearly the influence politics they shape the conversation How important are they given the scope of the problem? We outlined I mean. I think it's huge and I think you really detailed their character which is the become quasi public institutions are quasi-public sort of fora but they are private companies companies. And I just think that's terrible. I think that that's a terrible structure. We've worked ourselves into a terrible situation because public institutions additions if they really were public institutions that they really were public for a then you could sort of democratically decide on a set of rules and and guidelines and boundaries. And you wouldn't have to care what the implications of those rules and bounties were for your profits right right. I mean that's the whole point of public institutions. Is they operate in the public interest but youtube ultimately if it comes down to their commitment commit to good information in their commitment to truth if it bumps up against prophets like who do you think who do you think is GonNa win in in that situation you know what I mean. They are private companies. They have boards of directors. They literally like are bound by law to do to maximize their prophets like. That's they could be sued by shareholders if they don't so like we've somehow like now we're saying collectively to Youtube Youtube look we couldn't science was too weak to enforce right a truthful narrative about this problem journalism was too a week. Our educational system is too weak to do it. Politics is too weak and fragmented to do it but you youtube maybe you can and do it. You know and I'm just like come. On like ultimately the result on Youtube is gonNA reflect the power of the two AH warring coalitions that are trying to influence it. So it's just I I just think it's like there are some things they can do and I support them doing what they can dan but ultimately like this crisis of authority this crisis of who to trust about. What's real what's good what's decent? What our long-term goals are what kind of culture we are? All these big questions is not going to be youtube. Decides them in the end in the fact that we're like pleading with Youtube and and frigging book to draw. These lines to me is just sort of like indicative of what a what a terrible situation we've ended up and I have to say you are exceptionally good at steering conversations into dark places. It really is my superpower Steven Eh. One true superpower destroying optimism. Let me see if I can get us to a moderately optimistic place. And so the the flip side of this. Is that these tools give extraordinary power to mobilize people. I think the modern climate climate movement you know the youth activism. We see wouldn't exist without a lot of these problematic yet really effective platforms and end. They obviously can create really positive outcomes as a counterforce so I wonder what you think about the net effect here. If we weigh these dismal his Mwale institutional problems in the role of these platforms in those problems and the enormous good that can come out of them. what's the net impact. Oh Jeez I mean. This argument has been ongoing for ages. Sort of like on one hand. Facebook like connects you to your sick grandmother on the other hand and it might have accidentally prompted genocide in Myanmar. You know like you remember this sort of Utopian aspirations of these things right. The idea was that we're open the doors and everyone can contribute and everyone has a voice that there will be this sort of natural meritocracy that will I'll take hold right and we will collectively fact check in collectively weed out Disa- formation and you know that hasn't happened and I think one out of the reasons that hasn't happened is when we're on social media. We are mostly making decisions with our system. One thinking right. We're mostly reacting acting with their gut were just clicking unconsciously. Click Click Click and what is going to appeal to system. One is strong emotions particularly Lee these gut level brainstorm emotions like disgust and contempt and anger and outrage those. If we're just making being system one decisions those are the voices that will reinforce those are the videos that will become popular not truth versus falsehood. It's just outraged verses calm right or sort of like it's outraged that goes viral right because we're making system one decisions in our system. The citizens are always going to kind of go with what moves our gut to me what the left should be focusing on more explicitly than it is. It's not not just we want to enforce truth on climate. We want to enforce truth on this subject. We want to enforce truth on this subject. What they need to be doing is thinking consciously about in how to restore social trust in a set of system to institutions because it is only these transpartisan rules and these transpartisan partisan institutions that offer any hope for equity or justice or the little guy prospering right in a in a in a sort of battle battle of all against all with no rules? It's the little guy who gets screwed right. It's the vulnerable populations get screwed in that. Fight is the people who already have the power. I E suburban and rural the white men who run all the institutions who run all the sort of the centers of power in society. They're the ones who are going to win in in a fight of all against all and they know that. And that's why they won't want David Roberts a staff writer at vox focused on energy and climate. Thanks a lot. Thank Stephen So jeff if I want to turn to the big news of the week. The Iowa caucuses We are recording Wednesday at one. PM and right now with seventy one percent kind of the precincts reporting Pete. Buddha judge has a slim lead over Bernie Sanders the big question. We've been following whether rising alarm about climate change will actually actually make a difference for who voters support so we sent reporter. Chris Wall Jasper to the Caucasus on Monday night to hear how voters were talking about climate. Hey Chris thanks for coming on the show. Yeah glad to be here so You grew up in. I was right. Yeah yeah about About a half hour from where. I was reporting on Monday which was where I was in to a town. The town of Mount Pleasant and About ten miles east of their Town called New London. Mount pleasant. Got About eight thousand people also medium sized town for that part of Iowa so tell me what you were expecting to hear when you ask people about climate and and tell me what you actually found. But let's take the first question I I. What were you expecting to hear when you ask people about climate? Yeah you know. I really wasn't sure You know just from from friends and family in the area. It is a topic of conversation but I wasn't really sure if that'd be a driving force as people were heading into Monday night. That being said I I was really surprised that almost everyone I spoke to if it wasn't one of their top issues. It was something that they were thinking about as they were You know aligning themselves with these different candidates For instance. I talked to a gentleman named John at the caucus He's a retired pharmacist. who kind of surprised me with his answer? The first thing is whoever gets to get the nomination for the the Democratic Party. They beat trump. Let's my number one issue. I'm very interested in climate change. I think that's important issue. That isn't being addressed currently in political of climate that we're currently in. I have six grandkids all under the age of ten. I WANNA see a world that they can enjoy and living so hearing that you might think John would be supporting a candidate who's really come out strong. On climate change somebody like sanders or worn or even Bloomberg but he actually supported Buddha judge edge Someone who's not really thought of as a climate candidate but nonetheless did really well in a midwestern state. That's really been hit with some extreme weather in in recent years. So what do you think about. The Buddha judge comes across as the big winner along with Bernie Sanders and Hiwa dealing that means anything for the climate amid issue. Couple of things going on here in Chris really tapped into it I The Associated Press Act s people as they were coming in to the caucuses. You know what's Chernomyrdin issue. Climate was like like way up there. It was the number two issue Their healthcare thirty percent of the people coming into the caucus. Then it's it's their top issue but the other thing that is interesting here for Pete Buddha. He seems to have pulled off he. He's talked enough about climate change that he's a credible candidate it even to caucus goers who who who are really concerned about climate change He's not you know considered climate candidate but he apparently did enough that even a caucus Gorelick like John Could support him. Okay so Chris Oh so what about Bernie Sanders who's done almost equally well as Buddha judge in the preliminary results. He's been he's really been hammering. Climate change change the green new deal. Did you hear many people talk about Sanderson climate so I talked to several sanders supporters on Monday and While there are a number of issues that they were thinking about economic equality Healthcare climate change was the top one or two issue for these sanders supporters One a person person for example is this Woman named Iris She in management but Really was focused on on climate without having a viable plan for climate. Change to make sure that we're moving forward the way that we need to in fifty years were not gonNa have anything left to have to worry about how our education system or politics or who were voting for it's not gonNA matter So climate change is the number one issue so so Chris. Irish obviously feels pretty strongly about climate Why do you think she's? She's the strongest she is and and others in the caucus seem to reflect that that perspective as well. A lot of people pointed to the To the extreme weather that we saw last year One person in particular was this Eighteen year old a young woman named Aurora. She was CAUCUSING ORCAS in for Warren but climate was her number one top issue. It is just kind of scary to see like extreme flooding here us one thing I have noticed. I know when I was younger. Oh I didn't see these extreme flooding and I'm I'm only eighteen. So what is the effects of that within a couple of years kinda crazy to think about I think what. You've you're clearly seeing here here. Is that these these cocker scores as they come in some of them have said they've they're seeing extreme flooding. They're seeing impacts the farmers. They're seeing seeing you know things like droughts and that's changing the way they're thinking about this issue and why they're moving it up the up the scale which means that the candidates themselves had to address this order to get their votes all right Chris. Hey listen thanks for for for helping us out and hope to talk you down the road very good. Glad to climate twenty twenty is produced in association with a year's project and postscript audio funding is provided by excellent a company that believes that confronting climate change is essential to maintaining the strength and prosperity of the cities. It serves. That's why the excellent foundation launched a twenty million dollar Climate Change Investment Initiative to fund entrepreneurs finding new solutions to fighting climate. Change for more information visit. Excellent Foundation Dot Org show is hosted by me David Gelber and me Jeff. Nesbit climate twentieth twentieth produced by Jamie Kaiser Daniel Waldorf and Stephen Lacey. Sean Maher Qantas Qantas are sound designer and composed our theme music additional music and cover art by Kent Nickerson then. Branston is our production intern special. Thanks to Chris. Wall Jasper for field reporting in Iowa. Follow us on twitter and Instagram at climate. Twenty Twenty Pot. Subscribe now an apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to podcasts and please consider giving us a rating helps us get discovered by others who care about climate in politics for more information about US visit us at climate twenty twenty podcast dot com. Please come back again next Thursday to hear the latest on Climate Change and the twenty twenty election. Thanks for listening.
How This DOJ Strike Force Hunts Down Cryptocurrency Criminals - Ep.195
"Hi everyone look into unchain your no hype resource for all things Crypto I'm your host Laura a journalist with over two decades of experience. I started covering crypto five years ago and as a senior editor at. Forbes. Was the first mainstream media reporter to cover cryptocurrency fulltime. Subscribe to unchained on. Youtube where you can watch the videos of me and my guests go to YouTube dot com slash cs slash unchained podcast, and subscribe today. CRYPTO DOT COM, the crypto super that lets you buy spend crypto all in one place earn to eight point five percent per year on your BTC and more than twenty other coins, Delo the CRIP DOT com now to find out how much you could be earning. Today's guests are Magistrate Judge Zephyr rookie and Jesse rooks assistant US attorney in the National Security Section at the United States Attorney's office. Welcome Zia and Jessie. Thank you. Thanks for having us. You've prosecuted a number of federal criminal and civil forfeiture cases including cryptocurrency, involving cryptocurrency, including some of the most well known ones such as the welcome to video case, which led to the take down of one of the Web's largest child pornography sites, and in case involving the North Korea affiliated Lazarus Group plus another one involving Hamas and August humber gays how did you to come to prosecute so many cases involving cryptocurrency I I can go first and then I'll let Zia sort of explain because our think our roots are actually very different I started and cut my teeth superior. Court. Division at our office prosecuting mainly domestic violence in sex offense cases. During my time prosecuting sex offense cases I learned an expertise in the revenge porn world, which is where individuals sort of US cyber techniques to put out a explicit photos of people that either broke up with them are upset them in some way and I got really interested in the cyberworld and then when I moved to the National Security Section I was lucky enough to team up with Zia who had already. Developed this amazing expertise in this field and from there sort of took off Zia and his team that he had developed, and then I got to jump in and help develop as well on had created this amazing world that's leading the forefront of DOJ in these kinds of cases. Sure thanks a bunch So as you said now judged I'm no longer prosecutors I can speak not in my role as a judgment talking about as a prosecutor. Starting in two thousand eight until September eleventh twenty twenty was prosecuting cases what led me to the path of cryptocurrency was my focus was on money laundering an asset recovery for victims? And it seemed very clear. Up early on, there was like people were started lottery money in second life or their. Initial. Sort of trend of lake is virtual currency Something that criminals would get into a and one of the most things about being a prosecutor is seeing the ingenuity of criminals I. Think they're funny new and fascinating ways, and you're like Oh man if they'd only. Channel. These powers for good think of all the things they could do, but it is it's like a game of chess between. Prosecute. Investigators and people who are violent long there. You're always trying to catch up keep up with them, and so you know several years ago about like five or six years ago. Another couple prosecutors over from Maine Justice are particularly all poker and then Jesse also worked with other colleague Chris Brown who's at the done a lot of Vais cryptocurrency cases including currently cases that are charged in the district court. Mixing cases and things like that out. We all just sat down like we we need to have like a more coordinated way of coming out this problem at in different agencies of different expertise. Irs is at the forefront. They're super smart about getting in working the blockchain h asides really good with undercover FBI national security portfolio, and so out. We kind of formed their own informal strikeforce, which we call because we thought sounded coal, we wanted to make t shirts instead strikeforce so. That it was I think like anything in federal service like there's a lot of elbow room to kind of a grow and try out new things and you just want to find people who are mission oriented and like excited about trying new things and so we were able to kind of organically find a group of people are interested in crypto currency and kind of. Each different strengths that we could play on each other Oh I like this strike forcing it doesn't sound exactly how like government normally working imagine it would typically be very bureaucratic but I like that idea that you just called it back because it sounded cool. So. Let's Jive, or before we dive into the details on these cases, let's actually just establish some facts for the listeners 'cause I. Even before you know researching this I didn't really know some of the stuff but most if not, all of these cases are civil forfeiture cases, what is civil forfeiture and what happens in a case like that Sure. Though The civil forfeiture is interesting because it's so different than your normal criminal case like a criminal case, it might be the United States versus the rookie that's against a person but civil forfeiture is against the thing it's you know United States versus two hundred and twenty cryptocurrency council, United States versus one Ford Truck. It's a way to go after things. It's less punitive way of enforcing the law. You don't have to actually arrest person and tried to take their property. You can just go directly against the thing and then people. You know the burden of proof is on the government but that people can come forward and say like actually this thing belongs to me and there's a process by which the court says like has the government met its burden of proof to show this was involved in the crime or proceeds of crime, and if it is in the person slows the Defense Azali look I had no idea someone was using my car commit this crime I had no idea someone was using my bank account to do this, and then they get the property returned to them if they can prove that. And if I could just add, there's a whole spectrum of civil for driving it can start as small as someone. Forfeiting your property and after they sees it, you know at a at a stop of some sort to the kinds of cases that we deal with, which is seizing domain that might be proffering terrorist terrorists, finance or child pornography. So there's a whole range you know can differ in many ways but at the end of the day, it's a civil forfeiture kind of action. And so I, and maybe this is sort of just part and parcel of what we were just discussing but. You know like if you know that a certain person is affiliated with one of these properties than why wouldn't you just make that person defendant is that just a different type of case or how does it work when when you have that connection? Sure well, I can start and Zia, if you WANNA go from there and add to it there's a lot of reasons for it. First of all, there's a different level of proof. For civil forfeiture and criminal charges, and in most importantly probably goes to Zia just said, which is that the civil action is against the property, not a person and the criminal action is going to be against a person and with a criminal action, you have to prove a men's Raya. You have to prove which is an intent that goes with each statute, and there's a lot of different steps that go with that that lead to our high burden of proof that you know the government takes on proudly. But with civil forfeiture, it's the property like. What is about this property that was involved in wrongdoing in some way? So there are a lot of considerations that sort of differentiate the two and there are a lot of nuances that help prosecutors decide whether they want to go the civil route, the criminal route, or you can dual track it as well. The one the one thing is that you know there's a lot of people who are commented about Department of Justice actions that they They do what's called name and shame indictments were there may be someone in North Korea or they may be someone. In Syria that they can't actually get their hands on the actual person it's like, what have you accomplished by doing that and so civil forfeiture is important because it's an actual to have concrete disruption in national security cases where in the kind of name and shame. That that person's life is not necessarily impacted in the civil case like it. You might know someone in North Korea has stolen these funds and things like that but they're not they never leave North Korea what is the point of criminally charged him necessarily but the civil actually go and sees the Fund, you're actually able to get the money out and there may be instances many instances where you take the less punitive round of civil forfeiture because what is the point of adding those additional resources to criminally charge someone that you would never get a chance to actually prosecute you can't criminally prosecuted someone absentia they have to actually be present in the United States in the United States district courtroom. I mean. So now let's turn to some of these cases There's one pretty interesting one. In which the government maybe. At least you know from your. From your work were able to run a terrorist website for the first time. And that was a involving a Moscone. al-Qassam Brigades. Why don't you just start by describing who they are? Sure the al-Qassam Brigades is the military wing of Hamas and their designated terrorist organization by the US government, which lends itself to certain types of restrictions, which includes sanctions and. Give any materials for to them the material support charges. So that designation as it is important, and in that case, it was sort of part of a larger campaign that Zia I lead against taking down and dismantling on three separate cyber oriented terrorist campaigns. To that directly involved in crypto involved cryptocurrency on one that tertiary involvement. And what were they doing with cryptocurrency? Sure. So each of the three terror groups was acting distinctly but to speak specifically to al-Qassam, brigade, since that's what you raise in that case and it all sort of started on twitter but the al-Qassam Brigades put out an announcement on their twitter publicly asking for bitcoin donations from their supporters. And what it started out with was a static address for the supporters descend to, and then from there we and the DOJ and our investigatory partners at irs and hi were able to watch as al-Qassam Brigades developed and learn more about cryptocurrency. So eventually, they shifted their finance campaign from twitter to their websites, which were al-Qassam dot net al-Qassam dot ps and Qassam dot P. S., and on those websites they started to say, hey, supporters, send us your Bitcoin by clicking on this and an. On, those websites it was just a static address but reportedly to avoid any government and law enforcement detection, they then changed their techniques and started doing dynamic addresses. So each individual who wanted to donate would click on the website and an address would be generated for that supporter to donate to and so throughout that process, the terrorist group was able to raise a lot of money from supporters all over the world. Through a lot of work from our amazing law enforcement, they were able to track both the addresses that the Qassam Brigades generating on this website as well as all the addresses that we're sending to it. And then through our work there including multiple different legal techniques, we were able to determine how the website itself was run, and from there through judicial authorization was able to run the website for thirty days and how that exactly worked was that. As part of our seizure action, which is related to the civil forfeiture, we seized the domain and sometimes when you seize domain. The domain name just is transferred to a splash page run by the government. So essentially, a splash page that says, this website was supportive of terrorists or supportive of child pornography, and so it's now the government. But in this case, what we did instead was redirect the website to a government run website that was an exact mirror image of the prior terrorists website, and through this, our law enforcement and the government was able to run the website for thirty days and during that time. People continue to visit the website and donate money to the al-Qassam Brigades throughout this until after that thirty day period when we filed our civil forfeiture complaint and the splash page was put up. And just to go back to spill it out for the audience, sue why was it that they switched from just one particular To these dynamically generated addresses because you. Know because she went their money right through the cat-and-mouse. Sorry go Jesse Yeah, I mean at the end of the day like terrorists are trying to avoid law enforcement detection too and they're learning while we're learning and they can tell that we're investigating their cases were freezing. Their assets were starting to figure out what's going on here, and so we began to work with virtual exchanges to freeze assets and from there They. decided that they need to change their techniques and you know terrorists, stirland financial institutions they still do, but they're developing, and now we're learning more about cryptocurrency there. We're watching them develop more and more learn more and more about cryptocurrency, which is in this specific case, they moved from static to dynamic, which is much more difficult to track. But because we sort of already knew what was going on, we had a head start. And how were you able to find all the addresses that the generator was creating plus all the addresses that sent to the I mean well, I guess maybe a partisan as hard once you have the address but. Magician never reveals herself. To tune into the sequel podcast. When we we give the peek behind the curtain but I think it's just The tremendous work, the RS agents, Christian, Chessy, Agent Bill Cap. Rather these guys were working a ton with the FBI partners to go through in really figure out you know what was going on the sophisticated tools you press release that was a reference as well. Genus has done a couple of presentations on the day participated exigent was another contractor. So I think it was just looking the agent spend a lot of time working. It's not like. There's no one trick that just it's work right there working with using the legal tools just was saying search and seizure warrants to email content or get financial records, subpoenas, leveraging relationships with overseas partners, and then you know undercover work as a little bit of everything. And I think something that was really special about this action and the follow up ones is that it was an agency effort all run by people that actually really care and are interested in cryptocurrency in who sort of believe in what cryptocurrency is trying to do. So we were all just trying to figure out who the bad actors using cryptocurrency and how can we attack them because the DOJ and these other agencies are just trying to understand these virtual assets and make sure that they're not for bat. An earlier when I asked him about on Qassam Brigades you said there were also other groups say what happened with those? What were the how were they using Bitcoin cryptocurrency? Sure so I can speak to that. So there were two other campaigns that were rolled out as part of this large dismantling that and I lead along with our law enforcement. So the second one was al-Qaeda and they were using telegram. So what was another interesting thing than cryptocurrency is that in all three of these actions, the terrorist groups were not only relying on crypto currency. But also relying on social media and new techniques, just sort of showing how they were becoming smarter when it comes to using cyber tools. So al-Qaeda through on telegram was raising money for really violent causes I mean not being shy about what they were asking for money for you know pictures of weapons, pictures of military gear and seeking donations of different cryptocurrency to help support that. What was sort of a upsetting and disturbing about the whole thing was that a lot of the telegram channels were hiding behind charity names and so the they made it sound like it was charity for individuals that were refugees or people that needed help in. Syria. But when in fact, they were really just raising money through crypto currency for violent causes and so through. A lot of the same agents in the same sort of Inter agency effort that was similarly. A all these telegram channels were tracked, including all the different addresses that received cryptocurrency on behalf of these violent causes. So those were seized in sought for forfeiture as well in a separate civil forfeiture complaint. So that's the second one, and then the third one was an Isis covid related case, and so this was less centered around currency although there are some cryptocurrency involved with it but this case was similarly devastating in that it was isis taking advantage of the covid outbreak all over the world but particularly targeting the United States creating a website and multiple facebook accounts that linked you directly to this website that was selling fake PP and. This website was created pretty soon after Kobe started spreading pretty wildly in the United States and there was very little shame in that they were selling to customers in the United States that had reported to serve hospitals, nursing homes, such such things like that, and so through our action, same sort of interagency effort and just following the social media campaigns, we were able to seize that website as well as the facebook accounts as well. I actually just to go back and ask you know and this may be the case for all of them but I especially noticed it with the Qassam Brigades. He word naming an hosted bitcoin addresses in your complaint meaning ones in which the? Al. Qassam Brigades were the people who have the control of the private keys. So how do you seize funds from an address like that in which the owner is you know really just the person who controls the private keys. There's a couple of different ways we go after on host wallets. One is that we might be able to use legal tools like through warrants or through cooperator someone who could get us recovery scenes who or can get us a private keys out way may be able to collect that information ourselves and get that in other instances. It's more treating these stolen art model and so that we. Basically don't you think about what happens when famous aren't is taken out of museum is that by publicizing that that is something that is listed it collapses the resale value and it also allows you know. So the person who then maybe stole the Mona Lisa, it's. One hundred million dollars it's not worth maybe ten million dollars or fifty million dollars something much less. But then not only have you collapsed the resale value anyone that's legitimate that then does business with that they should be on notice and it's like well, you know the museum that then or the? Then goes revise it or something like that. If they fail to do their due diligence and knowing that there is a in the art world, there's a stolen art crime index like people check that first before they purchase it. They could be subject to. Potential money laundering or other criminal charges. So the same thing here with cryptocurrency dresses even for the on hosted wallets for the ones where the government can't go and recover through legal tools. You've only now reduced the value of it because that now people know on. The blockchain, right it's all public. You don't have to have this highly sophisticated stolen art crime index. It's out there for everyone to see on my Gosh Yeah this one address is allegedly party criminal terrorist team. I'm not going to if someone and local big quincy's me up and says, okay, I want to send you and do a currency exchange and I see what addresses coming from like you don't need to be some big bank with sophisticated and all provinces Sunday anyone can do from like the ease of their smartphone but moreover, crypto currency exchanges absolutely are looking at those addresses and that they're looking genesis lifting trm all these other big. Entities that are doing this sort of analytical work. They're highlighting those addresses and pushing it out to exchanges exchanges. Knowing this is functionally can affect sanctions Lewis, and what happens if they do something like send the money to a mixer or? You know I is that something where than the mix here would reject the funds or how does our? Think it depends on the mixer, right like no, no different than a cryptocurrency exchange, some their crypto currency exchanges that conduct no KYC, and in fact, our avowed in that they want people to comment bring their illicit proceeds there. The Department of Justice has charged a lot of those cases of the said a we have one here DC at Chris Brown and that team from Irs Matt prices charged involving the Grams Helix case in. So one of the allegations in those charges relates to alleged money laundering or you know when funds come in a not question the source of it. Absolutely I mean I think you know in these sanctions context or other ones. It's the financial institutions of the gatekeepers and so doj has gone after them. Right you can't necessarily get to the individuals because of the volume but what you can go to the gatekeepers and say look financial institutions and that at bottom is what makes her is that's what this recent decision from DC district said in that case but as well as from other cases and Vincent us as well. You when you're exchanging your financial institution, you have to do an hour and if you don't get prosecuted. and. So now, just to go back to the ISIS and our al Qaeda case I, wanted to ask a little bit more about that telegram group where you said that they were disguised as charity groups when people would go into the groups would they realize kind of what the purpose was of the donations or was that also masks? Once you were in the group? So a lot of this is spelled out in the forfeiture complaint which is public, but we can't possibly try and get into the head of everyone that went and visited or even the ones that maybe donated but at the end of the day. For, it was pretty clear from the postings when there's a if it's called a charity XYZ, the posting would have a picture of a weapon and so raise money for purchasing this or raise money for this cause. So we don't purport to know what every single person was thinking, but at the end of the day, it was pretty clear from these telegram channels, what the purpose was. I think dovetailing on that just really quickly. As Muslim American, one of the things that there's always go if you're donating to charity is this charity one that's actually doing what it says Frankly that's true everyone right like when you donate to charity opt in particular there have been charged criminal cases of charities in the past that were financing terrorism and donors sometimes like all my God I had no idea that's doing it. So I think part of the work that the team did here was. So important because there were these charities nominally that we're doing that where people may not know that right and I think again to the credit of Jesse in the team, there weren't donors that were charged right it was just going after the institution that was collecting the money but part of again like stolen art model now, people are on notice if you Google Churn do any basic sort of foundational resource research on it, you're going to see like Oh my God. Telegram channel like three or four layers down to see pictures machineguns I'll see that they were named in a government complaint. So I know that this is not like a safe space to donate funds to. And they were highlighting the anonymity and things like that, and so I think that it was Apparent. But now it is very apparent that what they were doing. Yeah that's something that fascinated me a little bit about when you took over the al-Qassam Brigades website. You know al-Qassam Brigades could have very easily just told people hey, we're not in control of that website anymore and I believe they tried to. So what happened then why did people still go there and use the site? Yeah that's so interesting and I remember we sort of worked through that before it all happened like what if this happens? Is it really worth it? Should we just put up a splash page, but at the end of the day, people want to believe what they wanna believe on the Internet and on we had a website that looked exactly like the website and if people wanted to think it was the same thing. Great. What actually happened was that the al-Qassam Brigades tweeted out. Using the methods of their original campaign financing that they're a website had been taken over. But at the end of the day, no one really knew if it was the twitter account that was hacked or the website that had been hacked and people continue to donate and part of it was you know maybe some people believe that and some people stopped visiting the website but we also wanted to sort of show that like the Doj knows what's going on here and when people go visit a terrorist website. We want them to be uncertain whether they're visiting a terrorist website or the DOJ and maybe hesitate before they donate money because one thing that's very important to us is that in these terrorist financing cases when we see money, it's we try directed towards this victims funds that's for victims of terror, and that's run by DOJ, and there's a few rules about how the money gets in there. But our hope is that at least a big chunk of the money that we forfeited here including from people that were donating terrorists both when the DOJ ran the website and when it was actually a terrorist website is going to be redirected to victims that have suffered. You know unimaginable crimes from terrorists and. So I, know we already just touched on this very briefly about the face of face masks center dot com, and as he mentioned the role of cryptocurrency here was fairly tangential but I still wonder so exactly how were they using cryptocurrency and I just find it fascinating that they used this crisis with Kovic to. To try, to perpetrate, the scam. Again that goes right to the ingenuity. They're always coming up with new ways and you know as Jesse said, the website sprung up just days after that Kobe crisis starting. So that connection to cryptocurrency is that Zubay ause was charged in New York about think like and a half ago and pled guilty, and so she was sending money to. The person who is identified in the forfeiture complaint and so. What what she was doing was that she was getting through Isis was getting stolen Pi people are stealing their precise identifying information and credit cards in particular use credit cards to buy crypto to laundry immediately turning around and sign a crypt exchanges and then that we having laundered so they can say, oh, someone asks him like where'd you get this money from the go? Well, I I sold a bunch of crypto right then you know law enforcement or banks or virtual currency changes looking one behind that will where did you buy that from Oostrum, the stolen credit card, and then that money was going to isis and so after shenanigans gets arrested, plead guilty about sending money over to the. Isis financier. This immediately springs out rain. It's like it's almost like a relay race thinking they had this one path of using crypto get stolen Pi and by Crypto. And then laundered. Consent Isis that's get shutdown is started this website and you would anticipate again on the website they were taking money any which way could come in. So one would anticipate. I. Think. There's some allegations potentially that they would accept cryptocurrency for the debate. PP. But more importantly it's the same scheme they want someone to send him their credit card information, send their Pi they think that they're going to be buying. A thousand. Masks but instead all they've done is given all that identify information to isis and that they would do the same thing. Again, use that to buy more crypto laundered again into Fiat and so that the goal is not to just make the fifty dollar fifty thousand dollars sale of the PP that's never gonNA comments to get that information and use that combined a bunch of Crypto, which they see clearly as a way to longer money quickly and efficiently, and then just get a good exchange even if it's not like a great rate, but then they've laundered effectively okay and put. I mean. You're seeing that that's their assumption night law enforcement won't go the on that one step of living at where the came from right that. But obviously, that's not the case because. Exactly. Exactly. we caught her but yes, that is the assumption often that criminal know money laundering at bottom is you're just trying to put a bunch of logical steps in between the illegality at the beginning where you are at the end and to try to hide how the money got there. But if someone the determined law enforcement team of the. Ages. IRS FBI team they continue to peek behind door one, two, three, four, five finally. Get there. At the end of the day, that's how they're able to. They see like, okay, there's an illicit source but. They're they're trying to go scattershot just put up one layer of concealment because that might be enough to get past the KYC checker an check in a bank or cryptocurrency exchange. I mean. So in a moment, we're going to talk about some cases involving North Korea, but first a quick word from the sponsors he made this show possible. CRYPTO DOT com the crypto Super App that lets you buy, earn and spend crypto all in one place earned two point five percent per year on your BTC download the CRYPTO DOT COM. APP. Now, to see the interest rates, you could be earning on BTC and more than twenty other coins wants an APP. You can apply for the CRYPTO DOT COM mental card, which pays you up to eight percent cashback instantly on all purchases reserve yours now in the CRYPTO DOT COM APP. Back to my conversation with Zia and Jesse. Prosecuted a case involving the North Korea affiliated. Group Lazarus. Involved two hundred and fifty million dollars worth of cryptocurrency. How were they able to amass such a large hall? Now. I mean, it's fascinating to look in the complaint again. It really details out. So we can't. Show here, but people go check out the press release is a copy of the a very detailed charts that the especially Christine just drew up, but it show is impressed by the Turks. I can't do. that. He heard you say that having some happier than that. He recently told his wife he was excited. Someone had talked about race where she was extremely unimpressed. She just doesn't understand him or get him, but I'll bet you do. So it's great and we do as well but. you know so that hack. Hack right and it was really interesting happened after a previous hack that's allegedly attributed North Korea is that they went to cryptocurrency exchange and said, Hey, you know we have a bunch of all clients or a ton of money they want to come invest it a with your exchange. We're just worried about these hackers out there and so we have an attached a questionnaire to his email that's going to review your upset and things like that. Make sure that. Yeah. Yeah. That that you. That you are in fact, secure and compliant, and so in many ways, they fail the test right one because they clicked on the attachment into because then. When the attach their head, a bunch of Malware, and so the complaint he tells the language and the script language that's used is consistent with how North Korean hackers have operated and other things within the complaint out like VPN's were able to be penetrated by law enforcement things like that where they were, they were able to treat it to North Korea but it's just again that sloppiness. Of It just takes one bad mistake by someone in the security team or the client cut relation team at crypto currency exchange that they were able to do a complete takeover and get to not only the outlaw small. So get to some of the cold storage funds, which normally think should be able to happen, but they just totally took over system and so from one. EXCHANGE RATE IN ONE BANK HEIST my favorite New Yorker cartoon that we use all presentations as a guy goes into rob a bank and the guys give the money because you know you can do this all online now right and so instead a one bank robbery, where is the risk of violence like you know the security there this is from the safety of the North Koreans. House whatever they're sitting in able to steal two, hundred, eighty, million dollars in one fell swoop, and then you see in other hacks and it's describing the complaint and the second related complaint that like they are out there just spearfishing all day everyday looking for people who are well known in the crypto world. Assume their identities are or to go after those people to take over there. Again, with the goal of hacking exchanges are getting access to exchange within get that kind of money. Yeah in general. You. Know they're taking just seemed. So basic isn't the word because it sounds unsophisticated on their part. But what I mean is it's not something where you need to know coding or have any kind of fancy computer programming knowledge. It's literally just trading on People's Gullibility or Yeah and so earlier though you said something about how it was in line with other North Korean I I didn't understand that what what was it about previous North Korean hacking behavior that lined up. So we looked at the actual malware. We got a copy of that from the victim and when examining that malware, the way that the scripts were written in it that allowed them to take over was consistent with other hacks that have been documented with North Korean. So we used a couple different things that US as the penetration VPN, and so the language in the script, all these things we statement they don't say at the end of the day it's North Korea but like the language that was used and scripts. addition. There was a couple of things where we looked at some of the. Other information that they were researching and some other things researching things about the North Korean military. So it's possible. It could be someone in Kansas who just happens to use the same. Script language and uses a VPN that traces back to a North Korean cell, tower, and also researches a lot information about the North Korean military but more likely right like that's reflective of the fact that it is in fact North Korean actors. And one other thing was that some of the money was these strange coins like Proton token and olive and but theory I've literally never even heard of these. So why would they do that? In the most recent complaint, you know there was alga tokens there was all sorts of. Different coins in. One of the things that Chris talked about in the complaint is the chain hopping that occurs in that they're trying to move from one change another take no different than when someone has steals money from bank, they might try to exchange it into euros bureaus into yen in Indian back two dollars because they think again, they're obfuscating the trail and to some extent they are right like we can subpoena. DOJ can subpoena. The US banks and things like that to get that information but it's much more challenging to get from foreign banks and things like that and so I think what Chris Talks about that most recent complaint is that part of what chain hopping has done is to try to break the public you know blockchain ledgers and try to divorce things out. So you can't see where things are moving from one currency to another, and so they use a really rare currency and remember they're willing to take pennies on the dollar like the reason that you in Jesse. Deal. In these coins because they may not have the ability or like people may not be interested in them or you might get a lot less bang for your buff. But when you have two hundred, eighty, million dollars like you're happy to get a fifty percent yield rate that is a a bank heist that is unprecedented right? If you get ten percents huge and so not only. Does it office kate what you're doing you know it may be an easier way to find some people who run to sell it. But what's interesting is that Chris Draws back in that complaint is that. Bitcoin right like because no one has heard of these coins and at the end of the day they do need to get the Fiat so they may go through all this gene opping and then they circle back to Bitcoin and that's where Chris Irish team bill the H. Aside team and Kyle and FBI team they're able to really leverage expertise in the known bitcoin to. Then figure out like wait a minute we can. You know going back to that example let's go back three, four four more to see where did this coin never heard from how did that fund and talk about that a little bit more like why it is that they always come back to bitcoin like you started to say it but it's flush out for people because. I mean. It's also the the blockchain that has often lead prosecutors like you to the criminals. So why would they do that? You know this is the question whenever anyone Jesse I talked. When I was a prosecutor about like our practice in the Fiat side of. You know terrorism financing north, Korean sanctions, violations all like a because North Korea was allegedly behind this thing in US dollars, they're subject to these punitive criminal penalties sees all their money and they always say like one reason. Why didn't they just use like Chinese. Euros in the answer. Should should've if they did we wouldn't have any case and there's always people like Oh my God well, they'll stop using US dollar because if you keep prosecuting this, it'll drive them to other currencies that people feel like that. They can get away with everything want to. But you know the that just never happened in the same thing with with Bitcoin is that you know you can buy a tesla with Bitcoin by subway with bitcoin. You can't buy them with those other coins that no one is hurt up and so. As they still chain hop to obfuscate at the end of the day they need to get this into Fiat currency that is still the point where law enforceable come in and where crypto currency exchanges really can be very robust in their key Y Z in the same thing is true for long forces that they are waiting and they see when they come back to to bitcoin because they want to buy things or because they want to get a better return rate or because you know people are like to sketched out like I never heard of this coin you have no trading history on like one of these exchanges and so like no way I'm not going to deal with this. It's too suspicious. But. If someone who has retreating history has ever done anything, but it's on Bitcoin, which is well known entrusted in like. Well, I'm willing to do that because everything's public and so like I feel safer and so I think for the reasons, the always come back to bitcoin. And I think just a hop off that something that's talked about a lot is that criminals don't WanNa lose their money either right and they wanNA rely on its tuitions that are or coins that are a little bit more stable and so at the end of the day, even though criminals might work in these other coins or may not have heard of they wanna get back to bitcoin. So they they can feel solid in whatever they have there. And so once they do have the bitcoin. As we mentioned. You often are kind of. Law enforcement is often notifying exchanges of coins or addresses that are associated with criminal activity. But how are they attempting to cash out like how is it? How easy is it for them to do? So when they have these stolen funds? There's a lot of different ways and a lot of different techniques that they use something that the DOJ frequently looks at is unlicensed money service businesses. So those are people that are buying selling funds whether they be crypto currency or otherwise without up correct licensing from the US government from Fincen, and so how that works in the crypto world is that there are these people that sorta take advantage. What zero was talking about is that criminals frequent lane just WANNA. Get. Pennies on the dollar, and so they do these transactions where each person that's running this business is taking a little bit in a little bit more and so they're hopping through these exchanges are hopping through these coins with the help of these unlicensed money service businesses, and that's one way that we're able to track. It is that there are some people that are organizations or businesses that are run by a few people that are doing a lot of this business for criminals. One thing. That's also interesting like to your question of that's the. That's how how difficult is it like it? It seems like it is in the goal of working like what justice doing it to make it more difficult, right? You're never gonNA, make it impossible but you just want to make it more difficult and I think that North Korea, the one that you talked about highlights that. So there after the complaint drops on like a Tuesday within forty eight hours, there's an amended complaint like so why did that happen and if? You look at the document it goes into what happened is that there were hosted addresses that had sat for over fourteen months with no activity. The complaint drops immediately they start going frantically trying to cash those out which caused the government to go immediately within forty hours and amend their complaints k. her these all these other addresses here's where they moved to move to, and that's different than like an adjusted experience or mind from like you know street level drug crime, right like. When you when the cops knock on the door, everyone's flushing everything down the toilet, throwing things out the window or just trying to get rid of it. Right everything's gotTa go fire sale, and that's exactly what they were doing this case of the North Korean. See what the complaint comes out Oh my God this stuff is really hot. We've got to get rid of it and they're just trying to push much out as quickly as they can before the exchanges catches up or. The government and they're you know it was within a matter of forty eight hours. All addresses have been identified sent back to the one or two exchanges was largely to exchanges that are reference there and you know the government tells them like, Hey, these are still the same people I think genesis at the same time. Did it a report where they talked about some of the new addresses that were coming out and warning people hey, here's where they're moving to now that's. That's what's incredible about like the blockchain. Rightly, if someone stole one hundred and fifty million dollars from a traditional bank right and they took that money in there there's nothing the public writ large could do. But after these tax you had people who are watching the blockchain and they say like, Hey, we're watching this happen right now live rightly, it is happening right now and they're publicly broadcasting that information. So it is why cryptocurrency in many ways is much worse vehicle for laundering money because you're reliant on Jesse in her team, you can have people were sitting at home and watching. And giving Jesse's abled outsource instead of just having her four agents. Now she has thousands of agents is all the people listening to this podcast? Yeah. This seems weird. Thing on the box and then they tweet about. Yeah Yeah, I have definitely seen online forms where people are watching stuff on the blockchain and commenting on movements in real time One other thing that I found fascinating about this case was that the North Korean hackers for also using stolen identities to try to cash out how were they trying to do that in? Where did they get those identities? Again to Jesse's point rightly, she described how Qassam evolve from a kind of basic not getting more and more sophisticated. And the same thing with the north. Koreans, right on the first complaint that their pictures in it of people you know some exchanges want to hold up. KYC with a picture right next year vase and that the agents were able show like if you looked at the t shirt and like the body was the same body, which is a different face superimposed and they able to identify those warrants and that's pretty basic right and that you see in the most recent forfeiture complaint that Jesse and while I was at doj that we did with our partners over Alden and Jessica Peck the OJ that. They started stealing. Right because that's way more valuable because that's an actual that will pass some of the KYC filters that that were picked up I'm like Oh this isn't a edited pdf like it's the same t shirt forget about it that has genuine, and so what are they get I mean the the complaints just referenced generally that you know the United Nations as reference that their pelvic reports North Korea's known to hack exchanges. There's no reason to think when they're hacking exchange stealing the money right? There's also something. Of great value. They're just like with Isis campaign. The Pi is just as valuable, sometimes as much of the money, and so they are going and stealing data in addition to stealing money, and you that those complaints highlight that they're using those for nefarious things and I think it also highlights cryptocurrency exchanges that like you can't just do the basic KYC inside like this real license like you need to say, like you know, do some follow up questions are talk to the person you know people like. skype and zoom chats now or they're talking to the person and it's not just like a photo Selfie Lake. So they can see because that is much harder to fake and get past ammo control. So I think you know industry will have to continue to catch up as long notes like your previous, Amil, a threshold, your basement that's not enough now get raised. Yet, and I just realized we've been saying and I don't remember if we told people with for stands for it's personal identifying information. So. One other thing I wanted to ask about was. Mentioned it multiple times during the episode but. You're you're coordinating a bunch of different government agency in often working with teams actually in other countries as well. So how how do you make that happen you know how do you figure out? What are all the different agencies that need to be involved or which other foreign partners you need and how do you get in touch and also how do you? Just. Make a so many people across different Governmental agencies as well as jurisdictions come together to prosecute these cases. I'll just start with that I. Mean it's all about finding the right people and as a prosecutor, your job is not necessarily to know every single detail of cryptocurrency or to know all the technical side of virtual currency exchanges. But your job is to make sure that you are working with the right people and that you're using different agencies for what they're best at and understanding that saw people have strengths in some ways and other agencies have strengths in other ways and at the end of the day and How I look at it and I, know how Zia looks at it as like raw on the same team, you know we just want to ensure that terrorists don't get money. We WanNA. Make sure that the CRYPTO currency and virtual currency exchanges are not abused so that terrorists and other bad actors can get money and so if you go into every meeting and every email with that mindset, everyone's GonNa WanNa, work with you and everyone's going to want to accomplish that goal because that's why we're know civil servants. And that's why we're going to work every day and so at the end of the day, Zia and Chris put together an amazing team, a strike force that I was lucky enough to be a part of and I will brag about Zia and Chris all day and and tell you how lucky I am to work with them But from there, we've been able to find people at a bunch of different agencies including Hsi Bill Capa rhinelander an FBI Kyle Armstrong and also just people at the DOJ that really have the same goal that we do and try to avoid bureaucracy as much as we can in order to accomplish this goal. One of things that sad about leaving you know I really enjoyed getting to have the opportunity to meet with people. So we don't we went to South Korea on the dark net, a child pornography case and in. Just really exciting to meet people from totally different backgrounds who have similarly motivated to like how can you try to make? The world a better place? Cheesy, but it's true like public servants I, think in those roles it crosses all boundaries and backgrounds and so like you know maybe something that you figure out late night over carry-on, we'll talk to. A prosecutor or a police officer in Korea The partners from Germany and from the UK and even here in the US like in the most recent action, it highlighted. That there was a partnership with the United States. Cyber common the Department of Defense and so I think you know what's so different and unique about the job that Jesse has on that used to work on his you are the kind of center that you're just trying to be. Fine all the right players put on the right on the chest Renton to advance the mission and that it's really fun to find those people because once you do it is organic. You can't just say like it's one formula out. But once it happens you, you go back to those people and they're just always wanted to make sacrifices in their personal life and work like they just want to. Get things across the finish line and they're so motivated that inspires you to work on it as well. Yeah, and actually we didn't really discuss it. I just mentioned it briefly about the welcome to video, which was I. Think one of your cases if not the first involving currency but actually, why don't you just talk a little bit more about how you guys were able to prosecute that given night you know the person running that site wasn't a foreign country. Sure. So I mean that and that's a good example of one where we leverage both criminal and civil tools because we wanted to criminally prosecute because we did think there was a person that we could get into the United States and do that, and so you know again it's the team at irs and homeland security agents out in Colorado Springs were working together to Jesse's points about relationships a we had a great relationship with the Korean National Police from a lot of the North Korea work that we did and so we told them like, Hey, you know the the irs after they did this great work and taking down alphabet with some of their other law enforcement partners. What's next and so Very, flippantly, I remember having a conversation between one of. The kind of people office work on these cases Red Board myself on we're like, you know what about child pornography in areas has a ton of experience in this. And so the irs came back Christian just like two weeks later. I haven't left my house in two weeks. I found a largest dark that child pornography. And we should take it down and remember wait. What are you talking about? He's like you told me to find a chopper I resigned because he said that's like the next big thing we should do and I was like, yeah, I mean I wasn't serious been. Okay. I guess that's just you know be careful what you ask for in so Quickly assembled a team again, this thing just talking about like you just gotTa get good people find them into Lindsay Sutton bird was an expert office on child sex offense crime. Yuli was an expert on cybercrime. We had the investigators can reset in Colorado and Tom Tansy and as well as Chris and then we got on a plane. We went to Korea, and we said, Yabloko enforcement partners they're. Each Asai who built relationships with the cream placement said like here's what darkness investigation has. They've never really done a big dark net investigation but like everyone else they're like oh my God when they. Don't want to get details very disturbing but this is mostly infant toddlers or being victimized, and so when people hear that everyone right almost everyone just like how can I help? What do I need to do? Tell me what I need to do I want to do this and so. We had partners from the UK and Germany as well. Came along particularly UK they were tracking on this and so kind of them on the case came back a couple of pretty shortly thereafter and did a takedown where there was a full like you know. Korean pleased. Went they to search warrant on the door found the alleged administering the site on the site logged on, which is always the key. The done a lot of things to try to protect the safety because they're actually been some customers that had committed suicide privacy previously after the discovered. So they were very careful of that and the US law enforcement was watching via alley remote to see what was happening in Korea and then immediately getting a forensic copy of the server. We know we did a search warrant which you can do the properties at a US embassy, and so we're in this space there and then just In the server there while we're there in Korea and starting to build up lead packages for the hundreds of customers who are on the site and found that like this. Why this is important is we found a new site and then we did prosecute administered that called. which was a site that showed not only child pornography but also videos of adults being raped are all women being raped on it being videotaped and at getting paid in theory and Bitcoin. So again because we found one customer insight, we then solid where else is he sending money to these? Typically, limited have it, and from that, we found this other site and led to spinoff investigations. There are twenty five children that were rescued from actively being abused because the irs agent follow the money right like because of the blockchain, he could follow the money the agents could go and you know explain all of that data with their partners from exigent a private company that they work with and. From that, there are twenty kids in her not being victimized tonight there's no better feeling in the world in that than saying, you know what is a concrete in that? You can show your work did well, here's what HFS IRS has worked it is that these these kids and their three hundred potential pedophile not on the street because of that. That's great. That's amazing. Work I also did an interview about that with Jonathan Levin of this right when the news came out in I willing to that in the show notes. So, how are you seeing the use of cryptocurrencies by criminals? Evolve over time. I think of. One thing is you know as at again, not a prosecutor speaking just in my. We never really looked to as much to policy of like that more like here's a case in front of us. We talk about what we see there but I think that we can give examples of what we saw right so. I'll jesse talk about the tariff finance campaigns but I can talk very briefly north as what we saw that they started I mean again I mean, you don't want to say it's basic because the yield is so large, but it's a bit basic i. mean if I saw North Korea would tell them their basic. And that? You, know. It is slowly getting maybe it's not an advanced yet but every day I'm there's there's there's steps forward because of Jesse in our team and their work that they're doing, and you saw that Lucien from no KYC to. You know very badly edited KYC fake to stolen Pi who knows what's next and so I think that's just one example evolution Jesse Ventura campaigns maybe some other examples sure and I mentioned this briefly before. But like the fact that the Qassam Brigades jump from static to a dynamic address generator, which is not easy technology to create on a website particularly that biggest technological jump shows that they learned something or they got some more information and you can just sort of watch you know I can't talk about really open cases, but you can see how criminals are starting to. Maybe just not direct deposit into the next address that they wanNA use, but using mixers using tumblers, but also just jumping through a bunch of intermediary addresses and learning how to explain that process to the court is something that we're developing as well on our side because as the terrorists learned, DOJ learns and virtual exchanges learn were all sorts of learning together and we have to figure out ways to teach the court as well that these new technologies are developing and that they're being used in improper ways and are you also finding that they're turning more to privacy coins. There's always the fear that right? I think that's hard to say, right that's in part by the privacy coins ever appeal but kind we talked about earlier. Even when they go to that is still end up going back to bitcoin because they need to cash out like they're not trying to just build up blanket revenue they're not trying to build up like a Federal Reserve, they need to spend money to buy things right and so. The. Extent that privacy coins. Become more widely used and I think they're going to. Continue to turn to that but as long as bitcoin theory of dominate and people are just using that I. Think. Again there's that these love to find someone rightly to engage in transactions either exchange with them or to buy the thing they want and people are nervous i. mean there's obviously like saw their software platforms. Some of the big exchanges don't take. They won't bank privacy coins and so I, think that's no different than some. You know big traditional banks will say like, okay like I'll take an yen renan be US dollar and euro, but not taking him like X. Y. and Z. currency from another country because like I just think it's not reliable. It's not safe like it's outside my risk appetite and so there's still a lot of that I think. And just jump off that I mean at the end of the day, what we're seeing criminals do is as crypto currency sort of expands and people know what it is more. They're able to target more people as victims or as supporters. So maybe ten years ago. If al-Qassam Brigade said, hey, supporters send me bitcoin. There wouldn't have been that many people who knew how to do that or really understood what bitcoin was. Now they can say, hey, supporters all over the world. Semi Bitcoin or if you think about the twitter hack like, Hey, let me just tackle these things and ask ask hackle these accounts and ask people to send us Bitcoin ten years ago. That wouldn't have been possible. So they're developing in that, the rest of the world is catching up understanding what crypto currency is and also that can be a a bigger way to hack into people's accounts and make sure that people are unbeknownst when they donate to these groups. One thing I also wanted to ask about is this new trend with defy, which is obviously really taking off and Some people are saying that this centralized exchanges could serve as mixers and make it easier for criminals in hackers to cash out what is your take on that and whether or not you know how do you think it is that the rise of defy could affect your ability to do this work? The gadget going back to the kind of previous you know we're limited talking about the cases we have seen unlike what we've prosecuted in. So predicting what will happen in the future as more like the people at Treasury Policy, Kinda folks, I think they can really speak to that. Obviously there's a ton of stuff right now defy and it's just so popular. So you know when anything like this happens right? Like eventually criminals tried to find a way to leverage that, and so I'm sure you're next podcast episode Jesse will be about a defy money hundred whether or not they act as mixing servants. Of Anything of, value to add. In. Yeah I just think that sort of void Zia's saying like the regulations in the laws need to catch up to this as well like as news services technologies are created, we need to figure out how they fit within the current regulations and whether new ones need to be made, and that's definitely a separate side of the government than us. But you know we're here to sort of watch and enforce as needed. And, I also just wanted to ask you know there was a couple of points in the discussion where one of you was saying that turning cryptocurrency is about idea for criminal because it's easier for it makes it easier for people like you to do our jobs but in general as we're seeing the rise of crimes using cryptocurrency, obviously there's this whole. Trend rid the ransomware, but you know that we've got these big state actors like North Korea turning to cryptocurrency. What in general would you say is the relationship with doing cryptocurrency and crime? You know I feel like one other thing I wanted to mention is that early on in cryptocurrency the narrative around it was that it was criminal money and clearly now. Really Narrative. I would say. We have all these institutions that are getting in on. But I just wondered you know I really do think we're obviously still seeing that. Criminals do enjoy it. So I wondered what your take on. On that relationship. I guess my sense is that they're still a false sense of security they're. Not. Everyone fully understands currency or a realizes that you know they can't hide behind a coin at the end of the day and I think that that information is just not spread as widely as people in the world like we are stand it, and so although we've definitely move past this whole like criminals or the ones using crypto currency. I think that's definitely true. I think that a lot of people are turning to it in order to be able to hide behind their current coins. But at the end of the day, criminals are still using Fiat currency to they're just finding and shifting and moving and taking turns in order to be able to try different ways and see what sticks. Think one thing. It's fascinating Jesse and I've. There used to be this thing where he would get in this machine and go to another country. It was calling international travel. It's really hard to remember now but we've given presentations on cryptocurrency and it's amazing out particularly when you're meeting people very sophisticated still understand cryptocurrency when they see the at Jesse with her DOJ and senior, they're like. Literally I people say like why not use government just turn off like isn't this all criminals people don't understand that like eight that's not something that's possible to be my answer always like you know people have been committing crime with traditional Fiat money for a long time and no one says demand. That's like I don't there's huge psychic disconnect that I just don't get like okay. Great. Like someone uses money to do something bad. No one's talking about banning on hosted Watson that's called cash, right? That's cash in. Between someone's betting. It's an hosted wallet right in criminals do that all the time Jesse and I could tell you stories from when we had narcotics cases refined two hundred, thousand dollars in someone's hidden in the floorboards of their four advocates without once happened right and so no one's like we should ban cash and so it just it's it's a false narrative into question I. think it I hope like you know if not, you know years not months and days now people will stop asking how of Crypto is. Criminals like that's not the point. Right? CRYPTO is here. People just need to learn to accept that and sounds like as you point out big banks are starting to get to just it's just not exchanges anymore and that like. The problem is in Crypto promise criminals and so that criminals commit crime whether without crypto the question is, how can we as a society? Like Oh is this something should be regulated I think that goes the Jesse Point I was like DOJ is trying to find ways to follow up. You know I think their defense lawyers are doing fabulous job at trying to wait a minute DOJ you're going. Too Far like this is not within that you you're using a regulatory framework for like Western Union sending money and that doesn't apply to someone just exchanging one currency to another. So the there is this big open right now for the law to get fleshed out but that does not speak to the goodness or badness crypto. It's here to stay and people just need to learn to live with it. I think my especially, my more libertarian minded listeners might. Like. Your answer to that question. But in general probably, my whole audience will because it's pretty level headed into and makes a lot of sense Well, it's been so great having you both on the show, where can people learn more about each of you and your work? Well I think just making you can reach out to us on link Dan I. think that's one thing we keep both I guess some of the profiles in general Jesse's got a big cases. You can see I think DOJ press releases I don't what else? Yeah I think press releases are. Probably the main way or linked in I mean at the end of the day as as government workers were part of a big team. So every six months or prosecution or forfeiture that we have is the result of lots of people both named and unnamed. So you know there's not any other way I guess to sort of track our our activity than that but. We you know we want to thank you for having us here and also thank everyone that helped us accomplish this and We hope to continue down this path. Yeah. Great. I mean one other comment I'll make is that you guys did name a bunch of your other collaborators throughout the show. So hopefully they. Will appreciate that. All right well, thanks again and it was great having you. Thank you. Thanks so much joining us today to learn more about Zia Jesse and the DOJ strikeforce. Check out the show notes for this episode. Don't forget. You can now watch video recordings of the shows on the UNCHAINED YouTube channel go to YouTube dot com slash c slash unchain podcast, and subscribe today unchained is produced by me Lawrenson with help from Anthony Yoon Daniel Bossy Baker Sean Fan Cod, and the team at Sialkot transcription. Thanks for listening.
Episode 379 - Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem
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Slash WHM enter our promo code WHM at checkout again, that is twenty dollars off your order. Simple contacts. On today's program, it's alien vs predator call in requiem in Japan, Stevens said actress, Kevin, Eric, Cisco, and we hate movies. Hello, everyone. Well, going to we hate movies that retuning into our fine program as always like we set up top. It's a VP Colin requiem from the grand year of two thousand eight directed by the brother Strauss God. And you see this credit brother just can we just put our names, please? You know, the Coen brothers of the Cohen, brothers, that's fine. They're even opted for Joel and Ethan co. Yeah, yeah, but, but even, yeah, the brothers is always a thing that you might call them like outside of the film a little bit. Absolutely. That's how they're spoken of like. But I would just one of the Cohen, brothers to the news. Pretty nice. Oh, I went to the brothers. Strauss. Writing fairy tales. That's the thing they would. I visited the brother strikes and the dock of the woods. I went over to Colin and Greg's house. Air. It is all too Greg Strauss film by Colin and Greg's. Hass gotta tell you man plan poker with the Cohen's. I'd like that. Oh, I mean we take you for everything. Yeah. I mean, there'd be some black comedy in the middle sort of good Netflix show for them. Tim. Blake Nelson? Yeah. All right. I'm out. Hey, Steven, do you wanna hear about how I was going to play the leader? No, I don't. I mean, I'm sure it doesn't even talk like that. That's, that's. I actually got to interview him one time at work, and he was actually a pretty sweet. Do those also the night I fended Sam Waterston that's going to happen. It happens all the time. You guys see the trailer for the new brothers Cohen movie. Yeah. Yeah, it looks good. He looks good in it. Okay, good. Yeah, I don't know. It's getting poor feedback. We'll see. Yeah, wow. Was not well received at the Venice film festival, but I don't know how did Elian vs predator requiem do the Venice film. It didn't play Venice, but one, the palm Dory. Ken. Loved of the Golden Lion. Exactly. For those unaware. This is the sequel to alien vs predator, better known to some as a VP, which didn't episode on if I'm not mistaken somewhere in this library of hundred years. Good hot cast EPs. Now that movie is about predators aliens stuck in a spaceship that's buried under a mining town in ant Arctic appear amid yet. Oh, right. The pyramid there in a pyramid scheme. It's the predator dupes of Bunge aliens known alien. You're going to get rich. All you gotta do is kill these humans. Then timeshare at Arctic hot new planet earth. Everyone's talking about it. That's right. Because I forgot where he brings all of his. They're like they're like ancient alien. Yeah, forgot about that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's great. This movie I gotta tell you it's way better. Yeah, I think it is as well. Some people disagree. It's okay to disagree, but none of them are in the room. AP requiem. Yes, the fuck. Does that title mean it's a song for the dead of the aliens versus the predator songs in this there are a lot of dead is also the one thing they must have crammed that graveyard scene. We called it requiem. We gotta have at least a graveyard. That's kind of my favorites, too graveyard. Smash. It was a graveyard smash for me, man. I was like, this is a smashing success of seen. Could we get anyone in this movie. Like, let's just get any one. Listen when your big as actors, Steven pass, who's a huge theater guy, but like reached as far as rescue me, and then he had a failed TV show after eskimo that was on NBC the name of which escapes me. But the basic concept was he was a doctor, but it was it was a medical doctor what it was also a Jekyll and Hyde situation. Really? Yep. You put him in a like as a muscle head with sort Sinaga and sabotage. You could give those roles. Get me get me fucking Bruce. Campbell would be something maybe even Jeff Fahey I'll I'll take a Jeff Fahey. This was two thousand eight Jeff. Ahey I believe was yet to appear as captain Frank lupus on loss. For some reason, I was like, rowdy Roddy piper would have been great. Why God? Yes, I'm an awesome hoax. They're even at that point. Let's let even at that point he's a hat him, but he's, he's. Had all that Xena more. I would like it to be eight, an alien name brother. If you cut around all the poison sex, Zeno more bad a hook in. No, their blood is, you know, putt around the poisons act brother. You gotta clean shit out of your react coming acid. Only love brother h. age. The reason Chris, the hulk stir would be a bad choices. He's become such a parody of himself. Hey, if I starring AVP requiem I can still use the n. word onset, right brother. Is that okay? Even get like John Leguizamo like literally someone wore Mickey Rourke would have been great. The skeleton of Mickey Rourke lows two thousand seven that was his. He was like, when was shit, when was the wrassling probably around eight. Yeah, so right about to happen. DVD was way. And he's like, well, in one movie, man, I could fight fucking aliens and breaders the other movie I could be wrestler, oh, plane, forty in this. Darren has been asking me, but I think we have pinpointed that these movies all the predator movies they need beefcakes. I need to see a human beefcake. You know, we had Arnold Schwarzenegger and Jesse Ventura mud bunch of beefcakes. I Bill Duke. He's a beefcake in that first second movie. We get Gary Busey building in those tight fucking khakis. Danny Glover's the beefcake the other two gentlemen, byu, see and Paxton like the lean meat a little bit of that. The psychological beefcake like he's really like, he's got a lot of. Yeah, guess what? That's the first last time. Anyone is going to say that about me, how were they checked me into the asylum, they put on the rubber stamp day that said, psychological code word. That is, you know what that's like, I and I hope never dies. But when I want when I when I want one, one eulogy of Gary Busey to say psychological garb, you see with psychological beefcake who starred in started the the buddy Holly story with comedy center. One of one of our patients is a psychological beefcake try to guess which one I think you'll be pleasantly. That the last VP film didn't really have anything either into the beef department last. Bees are not lethal. We should say that there isn't. We're doing this. Also. We're skipping predators, which I feel like I'll never see. I saw some of it on ever seen it. It's better than this. It's it's an alien planet and Laurence Fishburne. They're running alien land Adrian Brodie as well. Yeah, I saw Toko grace. I can't tell you about it. I think I green out. I've been there might have been with you, do I think so fucking tag team that movie screen to everything the the predator the predator came out last Friday and I got a same in these predator. The the the predator titles have been fucked up its predator one predator too. Then you get predatory our doing new product, the buddy and you'll Andrew, you wanna put on predator and he's like, what are you talking about? My head would explode even know where to begin. We already struck down this legislation. It's not gonna happen. Predator four Steve's writing businesses though, because this is fucking bullshit. All these titles, what a colon and a subtitle, that's the case you call them over to show you. I haven't seen it yet. I know it's outta ready, but I did in light of hearing some piss poor responses, skipped it at the Toronto film festival. I'll probably get to at some point. Yeah. Yeah, see. I'm so excited to see it. We're recording this right before it comes out for full transparency and our government here on weei movies, so I will see it, but I'm yeah, it'd be bad. I've been the controversies clearly weird and. But I still really wanna see what you saw. You wanted to see predator. I couldn't hear you. Did you say the predator or predator or did you cut off predators by accident? I don't know. He wants to get numbers into movie titles. You just gotta go by the years, stewed predator eighty seven or whatever. I can't figure out why this Robert Rodriguez movie is back in theater. On a second. Rodriguez predators was Nimrod tau Rodriguez produced because it's Nimrod atoll or whatever. Don't worry about it. Everybody was talking about Robert Rodriguez. Don't even worry about it, but I just want to bring a fact that Steve complained about the idea. No, I'm still I'm still hammering ahead. Sure. You said you complain about saying predator eighty seven yet you say Batman eighty nine to me ten times a day. Yes, that's fair. But that's just saying. All right Senator right said with Evie bam in one or does the Adam west film count is great film counts for nothing and fuck all bring the legislation back to your committee back another day. Just say there's some old man. Well, well, mother, the ARL Schwarzenegger movies back in theaters. I saw the predator. That's that's the one. I think your whole thing has to go back to formula by the way. I think we should also mention movie well yet to get back to this film for second we are talking about the uncut version. Oh, right. I'm guessing for violence and not for brilliant fucking dialogue. So this movie picks up right with the last one ended, which is right. The last shot. The very last shot is a Dale, which we're calling the prevailing, which wacky all kill ourselves. Now that on the is that in the in the trivia? Yes. Yes. Read about that. Yeah. So it's the chest Burster comes out of a predator's body at the opening of the film. It was, I guess, the titular predator of the last VP is scar act hopefully stop. I can't. I suffer another movie of naming I know at the name of this predator. And it's so annoying to tell you which one the prevail, Ian, the one, the main, the main on this film also, by the way, why is it prevail? Ian. Why can be like Zeno tour Zena tours. That sounds like he's got a horse legs or he's he's zender. He represented predator district. Like why? So you're telling me that throughout all aliens history. I've been seeing what would be a Zena more mixed with human. Okay, I understand that. Yeah, but can like, can they like lay an egg and a deer? Can I see. Zeno more threes, third, dog, predator sort of. I don't remember predator dog alienates in the third aliens. Yeah, no, there isn't. This movie where there's an alien situation because there's a dog that fucking. Yeah, but you're right? Yes. Thank you. The fincher move in the fincher movie. Dog rips apart and then there's a, it's a different alien because it's the idea that acts like any other. Yeah. So this movie's way smarter than I thought the predator. I mean, literally, it's just an alien with those those choppers a little bit. It's pretty much the same thing. It's got better posture than Zeno, and that's it probably does better with -nology if you if it had the chance, it looks like a bobblehead though yet it's among its funding head. That Mellon does not meet the rest of the bodies. Totally. Chris. Irish, you could see by a large headed prevail, Ian, not being able to hold its own headway, which is pretty delightful and accurate. I, I was kind of surprised it didn't happen. Here's the to subservient aliens that needed polls to help this fucker walk around. Here's the thing as much as I'm a guy and everybody at home knows this. I m a stickler for practical f. x. whenever possible, he was the mound. That was stickler for practical. But here's the problem in this movie, a lot of the Zeno more and I guess the prevail Ian included here. They are clearly too much just people in suits. Oh sure. Running around. Like when you get these Zena more that are running around onto legs like like they are and there's not much like mystery you're literally seeing the whole thing. Yes, that's listen. It looks like eight good and expensive, but nevertheless Holloway Augusta, the the two originally. Alien movies. You barely saw u totally alien and aliens. It's always quick shots. You see the arms like, oh my God. What are the dimensions of this kind of makes it scarier. So this thing bursts out and it like there's a doctor, there's a predator doctor Dr. Doctor Prentiss a lot of standing desks in this. I, I'm kinda surprised how do Jack? They're not people look at their Cav muscles. That standing desk dude look at their complete lack of hemorrhoids. That's no sitting for these guys. Autopsy and something else, and he gets attacked. Technically an alien, but I guess you know if we're dissecting your local coroner, I guess, is doing alien autopsies all the time because we are aliens to other beings. That dude. Oh, no, speaking of green and out. Yeah, really not to get all Neil degrasse Tyson, dude, you are one took over the line sweet Mary with that comment. So true. You're right. We're technically we live on space, comma, listen, we're just stardust, man. It's right. Oh, Jesus cool thing is exploded. It's scattered across the universe eventually life star deform at eventually, Chris on a little blue dot called earth. They made a VP. History, the tree of life version of the behind the scenes of illion versus predator. Requiem dot dinosaurs, alien vs predator. Zeno more inside of a dinosaur. You gotta, dynasty diagnose, you know more is something that is exactly something q. magic just Bracco or as and then just a fucking chest bursts of this, wouldn't they be able to eat a fucking. Rounded, some like some. Some those dinosaurs are stupid, like maybe a raptor. You just you just literally picked the smartest known dinosaur to say the dump dinosaur, even acid, spitting one sores. Yes. Oh, wow. Maybe way a seconds. Xena morphs come from from dinosaurs or maybe Michael Crichton made it up. I don't know. Maybe what happened was. Dinosaurs coexist only life exists on earth. Gotcha. Dinosaurs happened. Jesus hung around was pretty cool, and then the is source guys. We're getting this Jesus guys talking too much fly the space moon. And they make they, they interbreeding eventually evolve into Zena morphs and they come back the night. He came back, wow, you know what? All of this is coming together lawlessly. So it's no other life in in the galaxy, except for earth and the predators were some other people. Driving school, man, the predators of any money money, the missing link and the sasquatch. Do that. I should like start talking further way and they evolved. I don't have anything. Cool. Call the police call the police now. Okay. Eric, Eric, tell you. He's just going to Email the rest. All right, for the purposes of this podcast and conversation going further, I will believe in outer space aliens and all that. Perfect. Thank you so the this predator prevail makes work of all these predators. We do see some prevail, Ian vision, which I guess, let's you know that it is kinda half-and-half because it is thermally vision. Don't know what this fucking thing looks like. Yeah. Yeah. Like I still like I can remember what the predator looks like. I remember what the I don't remember, like a blob thing. You know what it kind of looks like a muscular sweatier version of Sweden's from the Muppets. That's what the prevail, Ian kind of a little bit. I had to do. He does any here was the other thing. I thought that those dreadlocks we're tied into the helmet situation just like the predator vision. No, I'm totally missed remembering the hall thing, and so he makes sure of everybody. Some, there's the the ship is going down now down to earth, which this movie just like that. First one starts with the predator ship breaking down and he calls a triple a. or something instead of like, dude, you're fucking, do your self destructing dude. That's what you're famous for. Exactly which we don't get a single time in this movie. We get a little later too. Yeah, it does go off. Yes. Okay. I didn't think this was a calling AAA. I thought there was a dude monitoring that was, oh, we got a breakdown because we get in the first five minutes of this movie a glimpse, just a sneak peek at the predator home world. Oh my God, white unimpressive. I just love like, yeah, I just love the way that they paint this predator as like this old timer coming back to the games, coming out of retirement. It's like one last Lord. Help me back on my. I think it's a predator who's sitting around listening to a police scanner. Oh, no. The galaxy seven went down. Guess back in the gave you, you can tell if you when he gets up to get his gear walks past a coffee table in his all in predator language. Like I notice second notice notice. Like he's on hard tiles, all the fucking photos of Nancy predator little Jeannie predator. He checks his answering machine before he leaves. It's a message from like fucking funeral home. That's also talking about bills. Because those two, though the wife and son are definitely dead or the predator. Divorce lawyer Schill from the second wife. Oh, yeah, dude. Exactly. We do not get a much of the predator home world. It's just like a boxy planet. I wanna know what's going by the weird thing with this predator specifically like he is the protagonist of the film. By the way, his name is wolf. But how do you know that it's on the IM behind. I note from Wikipedia. Like those are real where these people getting these from. I'm going on record. It doesn't have a best buy. Oh, Circuit City. Only. Media play. It wasn't. We've had a nobody beats the wiz for ten centuries, and that's the way it's going to stay. I do think they would believe in physical media. Yeah, you're like not like streaming dudes all more analog, Doug that cool little, you know, I don't care how good your internet connection is. You're not getting the resolution that I am. This is true or k. I'm putting in. This this triangle shape disk and it's gonna play this crazy pornography predator. What happens? You know what happened? Oh my God. So this ship crashes in the good old United States of America hall planet. What are the actually Candida? Oh, it's Canada film. Oh, well, the the film is set set in Colorado the Colorado shit, gunners Ed dude, fuck that messing around town of gunnison. It's another way character doll. Amazing. That's who you could afford for this. You can afford Bryant tops. Well, yeah, that's van Damme would do it. He was in that first movie as the he's he's desperate enough duties. Unlike universal soldier, nineties, these aliens predators, I'll get them put. Yes. And punched. But in the ballers. He talks less and less as the movies go on. So I feel like he's keeping quiet during most of the, he'd be a Dallas. Yeah, that'd be awesome because it's like you're just waiting for van Damme to do something and he's not saying shit the whole movie. And then at the end, he just freaks out and starts killing these guys. I love it. But yeah, they crashed. There's a father and a son who were hunting I, I saw this me last night for the first time, and I always heard good things from, I believe everyone in this room Larizza cool movie. And then this kid gets a face hugger and I'm like, oh. Which is why I think we rated higher than anything else is not that anything else of the last movie is because this movie goes for child death. Absolutely. In like the first fifteen minutes, this kid's getting fucked over. Excessive child danger at. Put this on. You see that face hugger get dear old dad, and you're thinking, oh my God. Now I'm gonna see this kid grow up and it's going to be his revenge. Oh, shit. Yeah, it wasn't. He's he's dead aliens in his belly. There was a, what do you call the dad's arm gets melted off at some acid happen? Yes, it gets a little bit of like drip going because he shoots the face huggers. Oh, not in my house. Mother folks damn ground. This will be my last words. Oh, yeah, dude. He's a guy would love to see get throat fucked by an alien that would be wonderful. Cat scratch fever my ass. What if this kid by the way, bring another? What if this is John? Connor? Who knows? Oh, well, yeah, what she's a VP that whole thing to natural just Mary it to the Terminator. So that lie not where you were already marrying it to drastic park a little. So you know, like the government seized Dutch my God. That man is just that's beefcake Arnold, right? So they make him into robots to fight a Muslim. Well, yet if the Terminator like the model of the Terminator was based off of Dutch Jess. That's pretty great. That's fucking killer. We're like, we're still getting the kinks out of it. You know, Dutch always used to say, I need a vacation now. The fucking Terminator say it doesn't make sense. The t nine hundred that we've never seen, which is actually Carl weathers. That's excellent. Oh, yeah. So yes, we kind of get into the protagonists, Stephen Pesquera who comes back from prison. He just didn't three years hard time. We're over some. You know, you never find out, but the sheriff does like you got a lot of guts coming back here after that stunt you pull. I think he burnt down an orphanage. Three years, how bad could it have been as my question, something. That's a least murder, right? I mean three, three years. White guy. Yeah, that sounds like mergers clean cut, white kid like that. I mean, you can get out in a year, probably a good behavior, maybe homicide manslaughter. Maybe they probably they probably got it down a little bit cars stuff. Probably hoops doodle do drink the whole bottle deal. Oh, a sick Dewey, which turned into something much more of John OT's is the the sheriff and that they used to be running buddies, I guess were is he's cop? No, I think they were just buddies back in the old days. Oh, man, I can't believe you're a cop is a lot of people can either kind of thing. Oh, where do I know John Ortiz from most famously he's in American gangster. He's in Miami vice. He's really in big in that. I guess it must have been Miami vice. I haven't seen gangster. He's in a bunch a ton of stuff. I mean, and you know, they're trying to reactivate him into the decided we do. We're. It's it's an a tapestry that we get to see the whole noun here. Oh, yeah. This shit like an opening musical number to tell us all about this town. A hell of a town liquor stores up and the meth lab is down as exactly there's, there's got to be nothing to do there. We cut to a pizzeria. We meet David Hornsby of always sunny fame, rickety cricket who's like the manager of a hut type John's, oh, we do get Papa. John sign later we do. They work at pub Ajan but Papa John's exists in this town. That's interesting. So we have the Papa John's signed, but these these fuckers work for like pizza to go later more crawls out of the sewer and he's in pursuit by wolf Mr. predator there is a giant Papa. John's son, yes, wow, I missed it. I think I have my filter on my TV where it gets all Papa. John's shit off my screen. Now, does that cover Peyton Manning to? I would pay so much money never to see. Pay him to die. That's. What's weird is when you put this Papa, John's filter on Peyton Manning talking to himself. Doodle, the date. Where'd everybody go? Insurance peach. Oh, do you think the arm is my best friend? Someone was watching aliens kill in me. Someone was someone Domino's was watching nonstop paint man in commercials because that's what television is in the United States. If you don't know if you live outside of the continental United States and they saw his insurance commercials, right? Disney, like nationwide. And then they saw right after that the pizza commercials. Pizza insurance. Interesting. A lawsuit is coming at you looping all all kinds of things tonight. Rated or code off. Oh. Versus predator versus Peyton Manning. Yeah, rob boys, you're you're in store for a little bit of the rocket stasis soup, Eliezer pointer. You got on me. Three laser pointers. Wow, he must be rich. I, I don't remember was Brett farve cut or uncut. Famous for sending out dick pic. Yeah. Oh, I don't remember the dick. Did they release the dogs or someone's got it somewhere. The proposals Wrangler jeans, commercials. Yeah, you can see that bulge in those Wrangler 's. It would Tony romo's taken off his sketchers. Maybe I could make out the outline. Tony Romo scheduled conversion. Do this with all men in all commercials from now. Derek cutter, not treatment is objects. Eric's is Soma. These pants Lille too. Hey, you got any bag your genes for remain. I can't do commercial with addiction outline has it is Papa John. Mr. Papa John. Could you sling a peach into my mouth? I'm say. So, yeah, we, we, we now pizzaria finally and like read the uptight manager. He takes this kid who happens to be seen pest Qualls brother to tell them to go deliver pizza. That's kind of what's happ-. And so it's, it's this dude. Ricky, I believe is his name in this guy is like, man, I, I can't go to that house in rickety crickets. Like you are a pizza delivery driver. Let's move on with the scene and we find out of course, it's like some Bobo, babe. What are they doing? It's the middle of the afternoon. They're just sitting around eating the pizza. Oh, that's yeah, you're both, right? There's working. We'd while coming up with a killer idea for a podcast because that's the weird thing though is like when we get into this house, what's your name? Becky? Jesse. She's like, oh, hey, Ricky come on in and there's four other people like in the living room, and they're all just sitting there literally doing nothing like there's no television on there's no underrating necklace. It's just like five teenagers sitting in a dining room like just staring. When do you think the pizzas gonna get here? That'll be something can't start recording too. That's for sure guys. It's a podcast about pizzas. We can't start recording until the pizza gets here. So we so Jesse has this boyfriend. Oh yeah. And the this whole crew of like idiots. And you know what? One thing the eighties always. Got right. Was the boyfriend asshole. Boyfriend was always a beefcake. Yeah, this guy is a little pudgy little league. Dale Dale semi pudgy has got like the shaggy hair, but this is the gotta remember would not in Reagan's America. This George W Bush's where we built a smaller back. God, the masculinity of the Bush era star little rough of. So she's like, hey, man. Come in here. I'll pay for the pizza and like we have this terrible, fuck and kitchen island Brown ever. It's a real two thousand seven house and this down. She's, she's like, you know, blah, blah, blah. Those don't mind about those guys guys are jerks and he's like, yeah, I know. And they have a romantic. My favorite part of the scene. They just have a romantic scene. Like, you know, they're gonna get together. He leaves and they close up on this woman's face who it's like for a little while to show that she's like thinking about whether or not she wants to be romantically involved with this guy. It lasts forty seconds and she's got nothing going on. It's just like her eyes are like looking at the guy holding the light looking at the guy above the camera, looking at the director cut. She's not great. We can't get out of the scene without one of those bro Hemas in the living room, making a sausage lovers. Joe nice somebody's making jokes about hero hero Ricky sausage. Sausage Dale to was his Shelby. Dale Dale? Yeah. Oh, you must want chubby day. Oh, man. I'm just Dale. I am just Dale. The pizza delivery by Ricky. He says, like, oh, well, at least I now I now know who ordered the sausage lovers. Sausage lovers. Pizza's not really a thing, right? There's meat lovers if you put sausage lovers on a menu and was pepperoni sausage, maybe some other weird sausage and I would. But any I love sausages. What I'm saying is so much sausage on a pizza. I think the thing is, meat lovers is a thing that's like copy written by pizza. Yeah, pizza is the pizza chain that has the meat lovers. Got a trademark just get light. Well, then you adore or something. Yeah, I'll have one meet adore. What did you say the media door? Because you say that again? I would like a large Meador meteors here, Jeff. I shouldn't have let you name the fucking menu at the pizza matador for meat. Overturn all these trademarks because it's gotta be like Buster Keaton short films or something like they're just public domain. Now. Meat lovers, public domain. Everyone loves meat. There's too many. Meat and pizza for that. Like you get like a plate of chicken wings in front of me. Technically at that moment, I'm a me locker. Exactly. So whatever this kid gets fucking punched in the stomach, then kicked a bunch of times, and then they throw his keys in the sewer. Oh, do the fucking clown is down there. Go get your keys Georgie. Don't make fun of fucking pizza selection ever. Again, we actually do get people living in the sewers in this movie, and I any was lives now. I, I will stop doing that offense. You never stop. The scary clown showed dead dad. Payton. Zeno more do show up and they because they, I guess they burst out of those hunter, the hunter and the burst out of the hundred. Their turn into the, we do see the kid get actual, the chest Burster certainly do. And I was like, man, Christmas, come early. And then they like they, they attack people that live in the sewer. Yes, because remember this takes place in the United States and reap nuts. We love it. Listen, how else are we going to produce? Judd's, dude, you feed people living in the sewer. I think this, this is a perfect place, beacon pizza pizza already in the movie. We're in the sewer. Let's bring in the ninja turtles. You know why. They could speak and and enunciate what their goals are because I have no idea what this predator is doing. This movie, no idea, no clue will. His whole thing is like he's going to hunt down the guys who killed the Tuesday, got a wet. A win that you got away Jennifer Gardner. I'm sorry, he's too subtle for you. Steve as his performance is more just general turtles. Turtles crank can give them a jump start on his on his fucking ship from the techno Drome jumper cables out? Yeah, eating pizza. We're we're, we're karate kick and things. It's all there. All of this would be great because you think about this when we have a lot of versus sing going on with the fight scenes in this movie are weird because it's just do things go on like. Exactly. Well, both the predator and the aliens would slaughter the teenage mutant ninja turtles and eat splinter of its Leonardo's. Like I feel like they would go all it would be like Donatello does machines, dude. I mean, he might configure some though. No, this acid is burning through my throat. Like actual turtle soup is what's going to happen because he'll do shredder would like join up with Zeno morphs or the tonight sausalito drying Lord equal. That'd be awesome. Communicate with. They are also from mansion. Right. Makes sense. Zeno morphs with every someone in that in this crossover thinking, they're in good with visine amorphous, and the predators is like that line in Jason x where that professor is like, it's okay, just wants his machete bag. And then like the offers are absent Schroeder stand-down, look, the flash cards are working. Oh, they're not working. The the predator does come down to investigate this crime. I think because I don't know. Is he a cop? Is he. He's out of retirement. Eastwood predator. Wants to contain the aliens. Neal is it's a whole. At the beginning that whole predator ship is wiped out. Yes. So I think maybe it's a thing where maybe he used to be a crew member their baby. Oh shit. Maybe he's like Gary Sinise and Apollo. Thirteen of get to go on the mission because they he Ed fucking whatever. That's. I don't get a bread exactly. Do only go rescue them. I watched that couple of weeks ago by the way. Excellent. Hangover movie politics. Oh yeah. It's like four hours on Vuk in tean and you're not going anywhere and. And so he's investigating doing this this weird thing. And I don't know what this is. He has these blue vials of like acid or whatever. This is new predator tech that erase. He's like tampering with evidence, I guess. Do you gotta call Mr.? Wolfman is he's going to totally erase the whole scene, just clean it right up. I just, yeah, I don't know. It's it is incensed like something. It's like Mark Furman redder. Still Eric's joked. Oh, yeah. No, no spacing out for a second. Predators is like throwing gloves all over the ground. Yeah. Like, oh, this HUD drugs, auto. Hundred kid wasn't killed by a alien. No, it was a professional athlete. Yes, yes, I am. I'm also a good predator, but I'm racist against white people because I'm setting up Peyton Manning AVP VP, dude, AVP MVP. From there. Alibi. I was on a flight to Chicago, no. Mob brother had moving. So, yeah, he's he's racing evidence that I don't know why is is not gonna be any investigations, a man in black, like the idea that we're trying to keep it away from, like I think human, the prime directive. We can't. We can't fuck with that humans because you know they're not ready to know this shit. So just get rid of the evidence years way. But under. I need. You know what? Like we're on the predator planet. He gets this call. He, he needs to go to the high council of predators and like there's subtitles. It's five minutes of sometimes it's stupid as hell, but at least I can go. How about this? How about this? He is explicitly told by the predator high council. He is not to go to earth and try to fix this. Then this predator. He fucking steals a spacecraft. Yes, right. And all of a sudden it's all waiters. Who authorized opening cargo bay seven at the dude, fuck and drives it through the door with sunglasses down to worry about is it would consider. Yes, only os. To the dangerous? Yes. That predator is not authorized for a fly by why exactly if this, right and Jackson body armor can't cash. If this movie just had the guts to just be a little fun. Humor. You can have shit like that and listen, here's the thing. Everybody would eat that up if a predator drove through fucking cargo bay doors, stealing spaceship while danger zone play. Highway to the will be awesome. Is smoking a cigarette. The answer to all those questions would just be why not or or make it like the group of brothers like it was the first predator was his older brother. And he's coming back and I would love to the printer high council. You could see like what older predator looks like fat predator. Yeah. Just like in Star Trek. Six. When the Klingon high council committee condemns Kirk to death hanging with like a cube gavel. I was going to say this, why always appreciated seeing things like the Klingon high council because they always had old ones, fat ones. All right. There. Vulcan's because they're too disciplined but affect Clinton everything every science fiction shit. You know, none of old ones and fat ones because when I as a regular human walk around, I see nothing but old ones and fat exact. They're everywhere. Don't tell me they're not out there. So add to the body count of this cast by introducing a war veteran. Oh, right. What in the world. Her beleaguered husband played by Sam Trammell from true blood, and they have a daughter, and this is when we were getting really tired of the war in Iraq. Eleven years ago. Remember that this war is going on way too long, and it was eleven years ago. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, it's the longest war in our history. Well, it turned out to cheat and even know it, but she left the Middle East to come home to find war had followed her. They're not count, alien betters do not. That's really more law enforcement issue. She came home to find her town gets nuked by the government. At the end of this movie. We do back on the ship really quickly like he, he kills some alliens he'd he, he makes them go with this blue, go away juice. And then he does do the self destructing to self-destructing. I feel like it's set up in the first movie. It feels like the only way to activate it is with a sick predator laugh. Like that's like the vocal command code. Like you do that. You do the bleep loops. You do have triangle half triangle. But wait, that doesn't commit suicide, though he does. He sets it off and he runs and then he jumps. And then to my surprise, not a regular explosion, this is my friends an implosion which is like holy shit. They have implosion technology. If I had implosion technology, they would call me the implosion guys. I'd be doing it. Fucking predators anymore. I would make it so that everyone knows them across the galaxies implosion ocean Nader's. But wouldn't you want to be like the imploded then? Yes, imploded that's better. You can make a killing. It may be relevant now, but like twenty years ago you go to Vegas and implode all those old. Casino your of great, right? Yes. I mean, like this woman the that it's just like we see that her daughter doesn't know her and like, you know what I mean, like it's yeah, she's favoring the the father. I thought I like they really go heavy on it though because I thought like it was a step family situation when she comes back. Do you have a step? How are you grown human with stepfamily. But like I. Look at the at the thing? Yeah, the night vision goggles and she's like, you got these for me. And I was like, that's like something you like like when you're back from business, just felt really back from business or war business. But it's a, it's a level of family drama and like characterization. I don't need immovably that as far as I remember is titled alien vs predator colon requiem keep that shit out of there. I just want to these skeletons walking around getting killed by aliens. It's also not like they have like a big moment where the like talking or anything. It's them running for their fucking lives for most of the fuck and movie. But it's just it's so obnoxious that she's getting a home from war. You know what I mean? Like we're putting a stamp on like when this is taking place in a way that like this movie doesn't need to do. This stamp is the last twenty years. All right. It's a big swath. They knew that at the the, what do you call there? So the John Ortiz's investigating what happened because now the hunter and the kid are reported missing the whitest freaking out. She comes to the local diner. I gotta tell you this place. I would love to all you kidding me out because you know what I think it is a grand slam. It's a exactly because it's clearly like a bar that has bar food like lunch until dinner, but you go in there early, they'll give you coffee and some grease -ly ass eggs. Don't even worry about it. Sounds like breakfast at a bar. Absolutely. I did that when last time we were in Portland, my wife and I found a bar that serve breakfast eve was there. Oh, yeah, police, holy shit. If you didn't tell AVB. Andrew versus breathless. Joe, I would bucket knows dude, Pichit Fitchet. Produces in the room, you're going around, you're eating breakfast and people are fighting, you did and then we call, there's a bonus show that you guys could host a talkback show and it's called AVB requiem at. It's me calling in from the bathroom. I see. Yeah, like what's the, what's that situation? Is there are there nuggets or is it fucking liquid. Right? Yeah. Yeah, you're Charles again the last time I got fooled by those in Chicago, just a few months back. So yes, John not ghost to the woods. He there's a search party kind of thing. We're looking for where these people are the the predator by the way is so he's doing all this stuff. He, he's doctoring all this evidence left and right. He runs afoul of this cop that sees, oh shit. I can't go down for this yet. God, it's houses dude, and he for some reason he doesn't. He's got some weird rules. I don't understand. Like if you kills a an alien or is trying to get rid of a predator, that's fun. But if he kills a human, he has to skin it. Established in the other films. Steph's point. He's not doing it to Zeno Moore's and Steve. I think I got an answer lined up. Okay. Skinning a human being fairly easy. Sure. I think the move though, like looking predator and look at Zeno morph man, that's like trying to take part of lobster. You're going to be there all day. Get those shells off. Like that's what it is a human. It's quickly pull it off hanging from a tree down master chef what your challenges is to skin a predator. It's very, really quickly extra shopping hubs. All right. Go thorax. Yes, very clean cuts. Right, Jamie. Let's see what you've all damn. Ruined the cut, the fillet, the flav predator. This is the most expensive beat you can have. It's an alien from space. What did I tell you? Stupid motherfucker. You cut around the acid sack round. Rounding, why am I in in this business? Could be on AVB God. He could be yelling at you as you're eating. Why are you doing this dip the toast of the yolk? You fucking idiot. Sounds like a pretty good move. Ooh, damn data's my favorite thing on those shows. He tastes on these damn. Damn is always bad. Yes, it wouldn't be tab. That's good capable. It's a little at the done. Oh. Now you're talking about and he's like being polite to like other. Ono master chef, it'll it'll be the American versions. He was like a raging asshole. Thinking of hell's kitchen. My friend. A whole different Gordon. My friends this week, it's a whole different. He's like to face to. I had to promise my parole officer. It would be a different gold. Let's give it a world. Looks like it's back to jail for me. I burnt the porta bellow and then he just he just stop. Start punching. He's punching. He'll get the Zina mov acid. Here we go. All right, predator. He did a good job. I'll just you've been cut tonight, but you could work in my kitchen time. Does he do. Are you serious. Come to be job anytime. Can I tell you the only Gordon Ramsay shit I've seen from his obnoxious empire of television shows is like when he's going into restaurants and like, oh, using bad watching nightmares. That's the probably the best of his empire. Yeah, it was literally a single episode is all I've seen this man, and it was fucking awesome. I gotta tell you it was the thing where some like disgusting, Long Island sports bar and. Gabu. I presume that this is almost every episode, but it's basically like the restaurant owner like crying and just like arteries. Over English bay. I was laugh. I laugh of it, but it was awesome too because the entire staff hated the owner, right? So they have a meeting one time and at the staff meeting, all these people are like, listen, Randy, ura, fucking bag. IDEX do. That's why this restaurant is failing. And this guy had no idea. It was kind of like when they cry on undercover boss, you are bad. The fry cook predator. So yes. So there's a great line around here because you'll leave. You mentioned we're getting this the search on for the people. Yes, there's a thing where like it gets the end of the night and John Heyman listen, it's two AM. We're gonna call it a night. We'll get back to it in the morning. And this guy is like we're not stopping and he's like, oh, it's late at night, like, and this guy goes, you know, around here, we take care of our own sheriff. Oh, right. Just like Jesus. Just go to bed lived here for two decades up third generation. This town, Earl, you're only second Huck you. Yeah, it's very pointed round here where you think I live mother fucker. He's like, you know what? Sheriff, what's that? Ortiz? Oh, I get it. I'll be over here. Taking care of our own for some reason Ricky and his brother have a Christian contest in this like a bad one act play record happened, man. What happened to you? Rikki. Oh this where he comes into the house and like the shades are drawn. There's garbage everywhere. Ricky don't live clean and they go down to the sewer. It's a sewer level now where the kernels of Reuss stork turtle Soroush turtles. On hover boards going through and fighting aliens in that cenex oath, right? Other totally ours, Ian awards in that game, he hopes somebody got sued at Kanana for that and more get the rat king. The s the back of the head. That would be lucky for the rat king. So he I just had a thought, you know, who could totally play the rat king who who's at headed noxious guy on the Walking Dead with the moose stash. You're asking? Yeah, the character's names Abraham. Yeah, whoever that Abraham, the racking like nobody's business toll order to get me to know cast members names on. I've been watching that show in six years. I'm just saying Jeff, de Jeff Denia. Yeah, that's it. That's all I got for you. Well, that's not the guy I'm talking that guy came in late two. Yeah. Who could care. Here's where in loser territory. Norman norman. Loser's question I will ask okay today. Good, good Uzun. No more good. It sad of his beer hood. Oh. Flesh. Question dead flesh. Don't we know what the scene more to sort of, you know, cook. I think it needs more than brain activity. I think so. I thought it was like it just needed like a little north head. I would love one stillborn more for it doesn't work out right pops out. I think that's what would happen in zombie would get up and walk. This psalm be would win that such nice. So if if Zeno Moore's ever invaded you the world, I think we should orchestrate a zombie outbreak to fight it. Yeah, because if we're going to die, we might as well all die and we might as well take down with it would actually be a pretty awesome visual zombie like shuffling along and there's a dead chest Burster looking like a flaccid penis just hanging out of its jets and he's just walking down the street. I was still pleasantly surprised seeing how this movie picks up at the end of the last one because that chest Burster is my favorite in all of these movies because he's the one that looks at the camera. Hello, baby on Iraq. Literally space ball's actually, literally space. And so they go down to the sewer. They do meet up some of what some of these Bs that have the homeless zombies or. Zeno more fucked up homeless. Zeno more well, the. Well, the. Homeless people were Zeno more. Take, make short order of these homeless people down there who are probably also veterans by the way just saying, this is where that dog came in, though. One of the homeless guy's has a dog. Yes, yes. And the Zina morph gets that fucker to they're all dead. We don't see that was my question to the kid Zena more. Would that be a smaller more of me run dish? I don't think so. Yeah. I think they just need that warm body history, all kind of just need a warm body from time to time. Got lace megs. So the the browser down on the sewer looking for the keys predator finally the versus. Really fucking up aliens. This. Doc to which is pretty awesome because don't the doesn't one like have the tongue headline shoot out into the other one or something. Lot of tongue head in this movie a little too much way too much. We're kind of like that's our fallback. Like anytime we have to quickly kill somebody, it's just like a quick like right through the skull and the drought was great about this scene or this sequence is. I think this is where the predator sets up a laser net on one of the, he puts both sides laser grid. He throws one of these things into it. Yeah, it's awesome. By the way unconcerned about the acid that's going to be flying all over the place. That was the thing designed. Remember if they are affected by acid in the first one, they burn because remember any isn't and at the because at the end of the first one, remember the predator like hilariously builds himself armor out of Zeno. The acid falls down the shell and it doesn't burn. He's like Sanjay. That's because so they have to build armor to protect themselves. But in this movie right cabin, he's getting fucking facial left and right. Slaughtering them old timer. You know he was listening to the police scanner, so he's used to getting squirted in the face and stuff like he's like, hardened to it. Oh, used to it, you know? Okay. So like as you get older, if you don't get fats the it hardens into a good. So times I wipe the blood off the seat. Sometimes it's ass. Sometimes it make friends with Peter Boyle in a coffee shop. We all hang out at what do you mean? You don't like this movie come on paid for the move. I mean, it's a foreign movie. Of they escaped the sewer like, wow, what was that? And this goes to work the next day. Nope, staying home and he meets up with Jesse at work it. She's a, hey, brecca with my boyfriend, I fired him. He's like, cool. This is. Who'd look, there's some stupid thing where like she's like, you're always staring at me and math classes a clock, and she's like, what? He's like. It's because the clock is near there and I wanna see what I get out of math class, and he's like, okay, hey, move. Like, you know, man wanting, he go swimming minute night. We'll go to this pool, bubble, blah clock. They get their, she's like, she stands she. She's very smart. She stands in front of a class. Takes off her robe to show her undergarments. Yes, very desirable to the teenage mind. She's like, you look at me or you looking at the clock. Oh yeah. It is time. Sorry. No, I'm sorry. It's the clock. I, I just wanted to see you next to the using o'clock Luke, how cool that Glock looks look out. Big it is that's a cool club snake. It. It's just a really great dichotomy you and the clock. There. It's you. I really love to talk. Just say, tick. Tock, Jackie. No, no, I didn't buzzer Jesse. But this is this obviously like she gets really Skippy outfit or just just lingerie setup for like I thought up by the bullies me to fuck with this kid. This is interesting that you guys both thought that because I think there is a film. Maybe we didn't episode on it where there is, oh, wait a second. Oh, I think it's coming to be. I think it's that movie. What was the movie? We did last tackler with jeans, evils, no trick or treat, Jeff, Gordon Inc Yash tricker treat. There's a come to the pool. We'll go swimming. Yes, and the dude rolls up and a ton of people are there, and he gets humiliated in some fashion, all my God. That's another great pool humiliation, yes, hat to hat. No good one. But so she's like, you know, in skimpy lingerie, the camera loves it and the brothers. Strauss love it. And the worst part is these dudes break in the u. loser start beat. Them up. She runs for her clothes. This camera follows her. Ask for like five bucks and minutes, man. Well, you know, here's the trivia about that. It's the worst thing in the world at forty three minutes. Jesse stripping down to her underwear at the school. Swimming pool is a nod to Ripley stripping out of her uniform in the final confrontation with Zeno more of an alien 1979. No, it's just an attractive woman undergarments, the nodded, this brother Strauss collective Boehner. It's not him owners. Damn. Damn, you know, I thought this was going to be an homage to aliens turned out. It was an Amish to Boehner's. You can come work for me last hump to see av av bonus heroes coming to see this movie heroes tonight on master film, he'll be three hundred firefighters coming to see your film. Heroes too much. Bona send it back. They wanted backdraft. You gave them voted raft. I don't even know what that means. This is a Bono ruler. Bona's for decades now was given to me by my great uncle. Voter, ruler, Dow on. Here's one of my favorite scenes in this, please. Thank you. My best drive drive drive drive. They find the cop hanging from a tree and he's been filleted, I'll predator. They take him to the fuck and medical exam resolve is this is the funk embezzling ever is the, you know, you have had a horrendous debt. When you can impress the medical. This dude playing the middle. He's fucking lives over the curtain and he's like, wow. That guy. Joe, not the new sheriff and like this dude, very smartly, like you are in way over your police call the FBI immediately. No, I got it. I got it. What do you got? What? What? Literally, the guy. Did we finish the sexy swimming is out. They're beating them on, they throw him in the pool and then an alien. You have one of those kids all get in the pool. Yes, everyone they say it's a fun fall into a pool, and then a Zena more flick jumps in the water and his kind of like swimming, like Chartres love to be in water. I mean the, you know, the very aquatic. Yeah, I got that the fucking like Cohn head, you know, it helps it go faster through the water know how easily I dry out in the sun. That'd be great. Like on top of a hot rock. Oh man Zena morph jerky, dude, humanity need witness. I need moisture. Okay. Stephen. You. It's kind of great though because he's just like this. This woman Jess is like no look. And then these dudes start getting decimated by this thing. Jess and Ricky and what's Gary Dale? Dale three of them make it out. One dude get's the fuck, and he gets he gets a little tongue through the head situation is now we've got an alien and a high school which I never thought I'd see, and I didn't. I mean, they didn't have mirrors at your eyes. Zinged damn. Oh, man. Let's talk about the ending now. I mean, this is kind of go, well, more stuff happens stuff. We cut to the the army lady and her her daughter, and she's like, mom, there's a monster outside, and the dad goes up to the window. There isn't, and then a fucking alien gets them, which is awesome because this movie came out the same year that true blood started, but mind like Sam Trammell, look, he's just dude. That was on a huge HBO show. So he's getting murdered right here. And I'd seen this only once before and I was like, oh, fuck what? A move, killing Sam. He's, he's. Also, you know he's fucking done for because there's a scene in a diner earlier where pass quail and the the veteran, the soldier. Like they like trade flirty glance, so right, and they're like, oh, are you? Okay, right. Kevin, we are all we are already setting up the bucket replacement husband slash father, don't even worry about money back to the diner really quick. The waitress one of the waitress is like the the wife of the guy who gets killed in the woods that she's very upset and she's waiting for sister to pick her up, and she has nice seen this shorter to cook is a well bick. We can always have your at our house. Oh, it's a nice scene. Like, you know, this guy's dead. He goes into the kitchen here. And she goes in there and she doesn't see anything. And then what follows her through a saloon door, which is a first for all of the alien franchise. Zero more opens a saloon Doria much like a cowboy didn't in Moses in the same way. It's tremendous. It is the why I recommend this movie Xena or fuses saloon door. And then this is also we there's a little bit of drastic parking happing happening right here because the Zina more like gets right down like next to this woman's phase doing like alien actually because it has the special ability which is not described or anything where it uses its mouth tongue to inside this lady's mouth and can impregnate her. Viscerally, if you're totally right, Steve MRs where I almost threw up because you see. And it's like they have the effective like the woman's throat like moving. And I was just like gag. Mount stuff was. I mean, it's very much like Tom and Jerry when he eats a piece of cheese and his whole body turns into a triangle, it's just it's very grows. So like she's pregnant and the parents of the predator Lian can one of its many special abilities. It can get a couple of aliens per body, which is interesting. Yes, yes. But at first I was like hydra aliens. Yeah. That was what was going on to three more. I thought that was happy. I was really headed more going through a saloon door with three cowboy hats. It's too much money can't do it. No, I need it. It's the dream. Listen, you wanna to Xena Marseille. Agley give that to you, but three man, you're Justin sane through a what? A loon Dr. Steve, having a midnight conversation with the ghost of Louis b, Mayer. It can happen. I can get the money. Put it all together, whatever. So the alien go to the hospital for some reason. Well, I, the power plant sequence which takes awhile. This is great because somehow the predator is aware of like, okay, if I knock out all the lights in this town. Yeah, it'll be some sort of fight or whatever. So like he fucks up this power station, and what's awesome is it's kind of like the predator versus the natural. All these lights are shooting down in slow motion to the predators, like fuck, yeah, firing that he does up. This movie is a dumb fucking b.'s Sifi Harvey, but that shot of like sparks lights falling around the predator. That's a pretty good shot. We don't know his backstory who could be retired baseball player, predator baseball. That's full contact. That'd be great to see. Right. Like what does that ball like? What does that look like? It must be a smaller animal. There's a bunch of spikes on it to somehow. Yeah, it's like, you know what? They play with the little spiky thing from Mario little spiky turtle. Yeah. Oh, never. I'll never play the game after my dad was into white socks. Oh, fuck due to predator. Steve. How about this? You enjoyed the prevail in coming through saloon door. Okay. How 'bout a million coming through cornfield. Oh, that's exciting, right? He walks out with shoeless Joe Jackson, right next to. It's just it's this pile of skinned bodies. He's like, why didn't you tell me to. Dude, I would love it. Right. So then like Kevin Costner's daughter falls off the bleachers and starts choking on that hot dog and the predator like walks over. Right. And then like he walks through the alien rather walks through and he like becomes like an old man. Right? And he just looks at the little girl just fucking tongue. Murder and Kevin Costner like Bilton underground pyramid? Yes. And the movie is called field of screams. Costner might do that. He's, he's on the downturn these days. He's got some show on the paramount. Oh, yeah. Awful. Is cowboy. I'm getting so old when I saw the. Eirik long Meyer. I don't need another one. I don't want you already have long Meyer Mike. I happen is a good. It's pretty good Starbucks on that, right? Yeah. Are you whittling chair while you watch that show or has I am wittling pipe, excuse. There's one of two ways is right. There's one of two ways to watch that show you're either wittling would or your fucking tanning leather while watching longmire. Well, some of you listen to some of you watch goofy Rambo cartoons while you drink water. Some of some of us drink lots old fucking Cowboys. Show. I'll whittle would as soon as I can pull the TV out onto the porch. How dare you mock what I do for entertainment my own home Kevin. So then we kind of go to the hospital. There's a lot of setup, weird hospital stuff, the fuck it, predator Elliott is walking around to refer little while. Yeah, I was waiting for that because listen, that's the thing, dude, all bets are off. You kill that kid at the beginning. I was like, come on newborn nursery, let's do. That's what I thought like in the back of my mind like this is a really good movie. If the idea is that like we're going to kill out there young population. Oh yeah. Like we're going to kill all over with. That's way too much. No, no, no way too much think. I don't know. This is a smart monster, whatever the fucking, but I will say all these little children shown in this scene little babies, dozens of them in this room. Yeah, do die at the end of the film when this is new. Yeah, that's the thing we should mention. Right? Steve says they get to the hospital, half of the cast does. There's a thing where they're like, okay, the only way out of the town is by helicopter. One helicopter is too far on the other side of town will never make it. The other helicopter is on the roof at the hospital, so they say, like, all right, we're going to go there. But John Ortiz and a couple of his other buddies are like, no, we're, we gotta go to the center of town. John Ortiz's Ben on the horn with the army. They're sending in backup. We just have to get to the center of town like the general told us the US government's never lied to anybody, which is a joke in the script. Yeah. So they split off and it's like Steven pass cow, Ricky Jess, rickety, cricket. And then like the the soldier, mother and daughter all go in a tank to the hospital and John Ortiz. A couple motherfuckers getting a truck at good hunter's wife, hunter's widow. I just want to clearly mentioned right before this. They're in a sporting goods store right face gets melted by. You're in this bully just fucking just melts really satisfy. It's what you want to happen to every bully. It's when I'm, I imagining this is missing the cut edition, but I don't know. Yeah, probably particularly brutal because it looked like I was going to get another fucking tongue kill. And I was like, no, don't you fuck in der. And then like the predator shootings him in the head. And then the alien the Guba comes? Yes, the goop comes pretty great. So yes, holies faces melted down. Also, who are these like two stones that run the store because the weird thing about this movie for the most part, it is towards the end it gets a little more indiscriminate. But you know who dies who's not gonna. Sure. Take a look at these two party animals exactly to party animals like, hey, are you stone like, yes, you're already dead. I'm not agreeing with you because there was one death. I was shocked by it happens at the end. Yes, yes. For the most part like, oh, these are the can't get it would rickety cricket gets in the thing. You know, he's not gonna make, oh cricket. Just looking them. He is anti making it too and credit. If you didn't know already just because you saw the numbers, like he says, like we have to protect the person who knows how to fly the helicopter. What is tied Cannock women. I that sex. Yeah, it was like that dude's not long for this world. So we get to the hospital by the way. The other thing is this general that John Ortiz is talking to you on the horn is clearly crooked and he's clearly gonna bomb this fucking town. We keep cutting the shots of like this general looking at blast radius apps and it's like, you know this much of the town. It's immediate destruction. This much town will burn this much of the town's going to have shit like flung at it from the explosion and thus will also be destroyed. And again, the general is played by Robert joy who by the way is nobody. I Meyer senior. He does look like a haggard, Seth Meyers, this guy, they wanted to add them Baldwin and Adam Baldwin said no internet toilets at no dude. When when the fucking internet toilet flushes you? That's a problem. I mean, that's a real problem. Let me ask you. Some producer could cause you show thing where there's a gay bar right before the nuke. If you could do that, I am in for this movie. I'm your Colonel. They really wanted like reprises role from new. Oh, I thought they wanted to reprise his role as animal mother. He secretly was not. Every movie he's in. He reprises role. I would say it'd be awesome if it was Carla weathers you don't actually see Diane parody arms get cut off. He's got no art robot arms to both get cut off. Just the one consult the Blu Ray tonight after you guys get the hell outta here, but you don't necessarily see him actually. That's true. Oh, fuck dude. Carl weathers with to like Jack's arms to lick robotic metallic arms, they'll be amazing. It would be some get Bill Duke with a hologram head. Oh my God, stealing from tank girl, though. Thanks how make the nuke, the ticking clock, make it known and then have like the government sending this one guy who dealt with them before you know, of its Dutch. It's Carl weathers. So just send me a beefcake. You're totally right over issued beef. How in any of these movies have we not had a reprisal of any of those because they offered no money at the, I guess so. But like, man, I feel like around that time though, Arnold had like, was he still governor news up until two thousand ten or was he okay. So I guess it was out of the question. Danny Glover will do fucking fit for I mean, ever was in contention, but I think probably money fell through or something like that. He needed that saw move you probably for nothing. That's true, right? I mean, so was Royal Tenenbaums. Oh. Yeah, yeah. Start of forever war. And. So, yeah, the they're in the hospital record get gets like mauled by a bunch of aliens pretty violently. It's not half bad, and this is the the kill that Chris was shocked by Zola's. I, I go. We're going on a corridor. It's it's the people who are left are Kelly who's the mom, the girl, Jess, Jess? Jesse, that it's the little girl, the little girl, her daughter, Kelly, her daughter, Jeff's who's the love interest for Ricky Ricky and the other guy, whatever his name is, and you're like, okay, I see what this is kind of this is our last cast and at a newer, this fucking thing comes and impales. Jess right now, it's pretty amazing. It's violent, it's really weird and it comes out of nowhere and like this. No. Because I was certain like they're making a and they're like the next generation of on probably Dow's is gonna, fuck and diets. We do have to say, Dallas sucks. You can't say Dallas such a stupid name. Is anyone out there name Dallas for being named down? No. I mean, it's a billion. Alien. Tom Scherz. Yes, you totally right. That fucking stinks. That, yeah, that fucking really stinks movie. Don't make me here, Dallas nonstop, and also your does the character that's built up to be cool ex-con kind of coming back to. Pass Dallas, Dallas. He's filled with references on top of him being named after scare it. Oh, totally says, when they're in the hospital, he says, we have to get to the chopper he yells get to the top when they're when they're on top. And Ricky when he's going to sacrifice himself, he says, get to the, it's exactly like the fucking. It's an unforgivable character, and I understand now why people don't like this film and he gets the predator gun and he's just using it. It's like, right. Well, I know how to use a predator. No, that you can't. It's like the side Ken and that falls off of Mr. Wolf. Harvey drops is predator called the wolf was because fiction really come. No. Now, listen here. Everybody you can't just be making shit up on. I'm putting it down his trivia, that's where is the site fucking sources. You get into a little bits of skull and brain out, and you're going to wash wash. Got a clean it all not enough. Predators taken trophies in this movie. Yeah, aerosol the fucking skull, clean human pelts. I guess my theory with that is this dude is like, oh, we're fucking alien outbreak. You our fucking seven thousand of those skulls at home. Then it gets down to earth and he's never fucking killed. The guy before. Fucking bring one health back. So I could fuck and turn it into leather while I'm watching longmire. The Frederick version of long mile. Oh, predator Cowboys. Horrible, al-qaeda. Kicked up. I'm never going to cook a baby. Again, don't the predators and predator to get like Ruben blatas like, don't they get his fucking skull. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh, yeah. The cook and babies human human me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Question. I don't know if anyone knows because like humans are supposed to be like pork, so that means like you can't do like medium rare, right? You gotta do like all the way through to. I don't think you on that. Okay. You do other skin to be crispy this, you want to leave it right on the right on the put the broiler on at the end. Down the most of it for like the last twenty ten if you want, if you wanna do it really right. Then you take it out. You give another like twenty mins in the oven. Five do. That's the Zambia filet de do we need to talk with the pregnant women because this is another disgusting part of this mood alien. Like, I don't know. I feel like the last thing aliens should be doing is messing with pregnant women. That thing is this too much going on in there that there's just making out with babe. Possible. I didn't mean to get you pregnant with my babies. It's just it's so disgusting. He goes into this room and there's like four pregnant women narratives like hatch. Excuse me. Could you not can't shame me guess. Happen to like more disgusting because then their bellies explode and there's all these aliens coming out of it by the time, the human characters given his room, it is, it looks like a fucking slaughterhouse. It there is a mess. They do get to the roof. Kelly knows how to fly the helicopter. She squalls like, look, everybody. I'm going to rookie sacrifice myself because I'm the white guy. I think by the way, Ricky gets like shanked by an alien tail at some point. Yes, but they totally missed the heart. Yeah. So he's like, he's like, injured n we're, you know, we're fighting. He's like blasting everybody excellently with this gun. Yeah, the predator who you think is dead, he falls elevator. Shaft comes up. The last second starts merkin more people, and now it's finally the predator alien vs predator. You know, it's the big showdown. The big showdown big fight to the death and he like throws dentals weapons. He's all right. Let's do it, babe. I love that the predators just like, fuck this. It is go time. No weapons. End of Lifa weapon laps only dude slaps only like GoldenEye slappers well, no, and and like Gary Busey fucking aliens all teeth. Well, no, you know, the thing is what have. It does start raining, isn't it? The the predator whip at one point with that predator whip dude talk about king shaming predator whips, what happens? The why the predator does sort on guns and he's ready to take his own life really is she got a message on his little armband, competitor, high consuls. We know you're on earth firm. Your your pension is now discontinued click. You pulled pulling out of here breaking through that hall. You're fucking account council, sends them like video. It's fucking ex wife and son getting executed in the town square like, well, buddy. You have nothing left to live for now. That's crazy. One last go. Dish. Well, killed a sting. I'm kind of, you know, related to and save these people I could eat in ruled over. There's another bullshit part around here. Stephen squall takes out the last alien. This fight happens and he has a fuck you and shoots it in the head. But this is another case of this thing's head explodes. Where is the acid all over this? Absolutely. We have was this doesn't remember when this came out, was it released in as like, did have an option to see it in three d? No, because this shot, like when he says, fuck you, shoots the Zeno over the head that fucking skull comes up to the camera and then like falls back a little. I was like this supposed to be three d. o.. Badly made. So as the helicopters going off the Elliott the predator like he has, he's we'll claw takes removal by this and goes right through the alien and that kills both of them kind of thing. Oh, no. And actually the same time, the predator numb a whip tale, a tale. Aliens tale goes right up through the torso of Mr.. Predator wolf, right. As the helicopter was off by the way in the middle of town square John or teases the ios that a rescue covered or what man, there's a lot of Elliot's over here. It's so the coats are by the back, the dude visit bug in general is like, yeah, sheriff were about ten minutes out. He's like, okay, good. And it's fucking awesome because they look up when this the help gets there, and it's just they see this one stealth bomber and you can see the look, John Ortiz like, oh, fuck this dude drops to fuck and missiles on this town square. That's, but you know what? That's perfect because at least now he doesn't have to hear the toll GIS os. Incinerated. So it's a great way to wrap this up and realistic. The government, the government of fucking salt. This dirt dude, it's fucking Zeno morphs. Yes, you bet. I, I hope I vote for people because they will looking nuke town festival, no more. It's like the town. The dream catcher? Yes. So did he's too hard decisions? I'm sorry, look, look. This cannot come to me. Are we sure this isn't a Godzilla situation where the fucking nuke is going to give more powers to the alien. Look. We're not talking nukes cabin. We're just talking to couple of bombs drought that shit down. It looks like are they new house? Damn mean if it's an alien fucking epidemic? Yeah, you nuke you, but you wouldn't need to do that man. These things can be shot with guns, but we're America big, go big baby. Just one a bomb can't hurt anyway. So they because of the nuclear fallout they crash. They get picked up by the military, the military steals, they steal his gun. He's predator gone. Steven pass well had the predator. Here's a good hawk that shit on EBay, retirement fund, dude. Yeah. You have six days to bid on this alien firearm waiting for a twist or the military guns them down? Yes. Yeah, I had a bunch of insurance at all burned up actually had three houses come from jail. I did not come into. So the stinger here's really stupid stupid as fuck. It's Robert joy is this general who is like three lines and like he goes up to this woman who of the three lines are we'll be there in ten minutes, the pizza tracker. He goes up to this lady and he's like, here's the gun miss you Tani. WALE in Utah ni the company from alien franchise like, fuck and fuck you. Dude, we've never see is the only mention of you Tani and they even permit us. It's Alwaleed. Yeah. Obviously this has nothing to do permeate the it's clearly, but I mean like like you, right? It's a stupid thing to shoe horn in also because like it doesn't win. We alien. It's not like they have like Tom scare. It's not walking around with the fucking predator blister tub. Scared dressed of the predators. Thank goodness alien vs predator happened now I can. I can take make sure we're these aliens that fucking characters is walking down that Dallas pack of cigarettes. That's what he's army with. Maybe I can kill these aliens within nice towns vans. It's just so dumb and it's just like it's a clearly. It's a thing for the fans, and I think for the fans things are. Okay, sure. But not when they make no God damn sad. It makes us it's because the actually the last line is like, well, she's like, oh yeah, these things don't belong on this world. And then he goes, well, I guess they're not weighed for this world. Are they miss you Tani like, what are you even setting up? We're going movie that's going to be called space guns. Yeah, one for space. Hopefully go see space guns, you know yet one adult and one child disease based guy. I didn't see two guns still haven't. No, you don't. That's a Mark Wahlberg and Denzel Washington. Oh, what was I thinking of with Ryan Philippian benishi away of pardon me, I will see. I did see. We'll see. No, I did see. Oh, it's okay. It's Christopher mcquarry. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, shed shit, bro. It's okay. Oh, is this the sequel the way the gun. Yeah, market is opened it up, play in Ryan, Philip pays carry. It looks like that pro works out dude, ironically enough, you say that you know who plays shooter in the USA series is Philip. Gavin. Oh, wait. No. You mean Mark Wahlberg movie with Danny Glover to bring it all back around the predators. Nice a little bit shoehorned, but I'll tell you we should call this show. I am funhouse should we should be failing? I have to. Funhouse fun. House. Good with my trivia. Website review works for me. And yeah, that's the end that can dumb, and it's not even a stinger. And that's like the end of the MU the proper end of this movie, I guess which also, you know what that reeks of though, that's a fucking sequel. We've talking flush the toilet at the box office didn't wait. Christmas day. This is an August. Fifth, if there ever was an. That's what that is that is cocaine decision. What that is that is, let's go, pig, motherfucker going Christmas fucking movies of the year. Was this a FOX film at FOX, put this out what fucking Duke test? What a blended, of course. Fuck it, of course, is the eight them alive. I mean, not rightfully but Christ one. Vying for an alien movie that makes no fucking sin. Now that you're saying that it's all rushing back to me and I remember ten years ago making fun of that decision. Fuck that's the movie that would anybody recommend it? Yeah, it's a lot of fun. A lot of cool debts. No characters to speak of that really matters. I would like some like interesting screen presences to bounce some of these fucking cool debts off of even Tom Atkins for Christ's sake paid do it. He would get the job done. But yeah, it's recommend for me. Yeah, light recommend. I could see this potentially being a hangover movie. Sure. If you're, yeah, it's a little loud. They do get the booms when they're coming in base, but other than that, I, I mean, yeah, toll recommended. I do think it's fun. I think it improves upon the original. I've got it by the way. I think this is it totally, right. This is better than AVP. We don't have someone trying to romance. One of these creatures. And it's not boring. Those the best crime baby p one for me is I found it pretty boring, and this is kinda nonstop insanity. Yes, it's too dark. I've read your comments. The film is very, very. But I, but it's I had a fun time watching it. So yeah, it's a fucking two hundred percent recommend for me, man. I saw this movie a few years ago. Unlike are off time. We played a show in Chicago, and there was some off time, and I just got a screening of this in and I was having fun balls that right after AVB. Probably was tell you the truth. Yeah, we're eating at the golden apple diner back. Surprised you didn't go Christmas day. Union dad. Did you did you that this Christmas. Christmas. Turkey's in that thing I would also I would say that this is a hangover movie. Why love it is it's just a slasher movie fucking alien Glebe clubs doing the killing like you put in Jason voorhees. It's just a fucking slasher. It's actually not really true to either franchise were the first ones trying to do both the same time, but adventure movie. This is just to your point slasher movie. It's not trying to do either. You know, I honestly think it would be a good hangover because you don't have to pay attention to Diddley ding-dong dick dude, there is nothing going on in his movie except cool kills and splendens and fucking prayed tech. I want more that predator home world, though that is a huge problem for me. I had a big like did you show me that? And it's like, oh, and then nothing happens in that a predator. Or you know, Netflix says a lot more invisible money. Whereas men that is a VP Allen's versus predator. Colon requiem directed by zebras trousers Colin at Greg, if you want more we, hey, movies, WHM podcast dot com. You can find over on the head gum network also. And for more content patriot dot com. Slash we hate movies. We gotta fucking Rokkas ready player. One episode Gillan this month, Star Trek shows animation damn nation. We're talking droid, Star Wars, colon droids, which is turns out to be a fantastic tune. So there's going to be an episode on that, and that's that. That's how our Star Trek show the nexus this month. We're talking about a taste of Armageddon for t. s. and we'll always have Paris for TNG shit. Oh, shit, romantic sexy episode. Finally, I get fucking Lehto most take this uniform off. Steve Zadek. What are we talking about for next week on the program? We're doing the remake of the stepford wives. Ooh, yeah. Four wherein walk in county. Right. Matthew Broderick, trying to get to the bottom of the mystery. So until next week with the stepford wives remake, I'm Andrew Stevens Zantac Chris, Kevin, Eric, Cisco, take it easy. That was a hit them put cast.