20 Episode results for "China Town"

'The physical legacy of struggle and sacrifice': How Chinatown is part of Vancouver's past  and its future

The Current

1:06:54 hr | 6 months ago

'The physical legacy of struggle and sacrifice': How Chinatown is part of Vancouver's past and its future

"Hey it's Anna Maria tramonte and I'm excited to tell you about my new podcast. It's called more and I'll be talking to people. You may think you already know until you hear hear them here. We've got a little more time to explore and to probe and even to play a little so get ready for the likes of David Suzuki. Catherine O'Hara Margaret it out would and many others. You can find more with Anna Maria tramonte wherever you get your favorite podcasts. This is a CBC podcast. Welcome to Chinatown. Where located east of the downtown core? This is the cheapest neighborhood in the city of Vancouver. That's close to the downtown in town business section. There's lots going on here. A lot of changes a lot of concern a lot of changes and a lot of concern that is tour. Guide historian Judy Lamb Maxwell who knows this neighborhood inside and out and summed it up really well. We were out on the streets of Chinatown today. Yeah she took me on a mini tour. That she does and it is such a fascinating neighborhood. Basically operates in the shadow of downtown. You have the skyscrapers and the wealth. All around you a block. The other way and there is the poverty and addiction that has become synonymous right across this country with the downtown eastside Vancouver. Today we will talk about the potential and the threats facing this community. My Name's Matt Galloway Vancouver's Changing Chinatown. It's a special edition of the currents turns the we are here at the floater restaurant with an audience. Thank you all for being here and we're going to be actually Vancouver all week long. There's a lot to talk talk about in this city. We're hoping to travel across the country over the course of this year and we thought what better place to start than here in Vancouver. There are many things to discuss from the resistance to a pipeline in northern British Columbia and the protests that have been spreading right across this country to the story of a man on the downtown eastside. WHO's trying to make a difference? It's one person at a time. I'll be speaking with Santa. Who is the president of one of this world's top universities and we'll talk specifically about his Work to improve the mental health and wellbeing of students that you that comes out of his own mental health struggles and he has a fascinating story to tell but we begin here in Vancouver's Chinatown with my tour. Guide Judy Lamb. Well in the block that we're in there are a lot of heritage buildings beautiful heritage buildings. Some of them are not well taken care of Some of them are moderately taken care of. There's a lot of disparity in this neighborhood. There's millionaires that owned buildings. There's a billionaire that owns buildings lot of troubled people with mental illness and drug problems homelessness. But there's also hipsters opening businesses millennials and there are lots of non-chinese businesses in the neighborhood. Now it's about sixty five percent Chinese now. There are lots of empty store fronts. So I'm not really sure how this is going to evolve how it's going to turn out that question of how it's going to turn out is at the heart we're GONNA be talking about for the next hour. We have three guests with us to help lead this conversation and espn as a professor of urban planning at Simon Fraser University. Carolee is chair of the Vancouver. Chinatown Foundation also runs several businesses in the neighborhood including Chinatown. Barbecue and Jordan is president of Chinatown Business Improvement Association and also a realtor audience. If you would please say hello to our esteemed panel break too it. Just I want to start by asking about the connection that you all have to this this neighborhood carol-lee tell us about this neighborhood and what it means to you so I was born and raised in Vancouver and second generation Chinese Canadian and and my grandfather was one of the early pioneers and I'm actually working in a building that he bought in nineteen twenty one so we have deep family roots here here. I think that we've had somebody in the family who's worked in that building. Ever since he bought it in nineteen twenty one. So it's a neighborhood dear to my heart we. We spend a lot of social occasions family events that were based here in Chinatown so a lot of fun for the neighborhood Jordan for you. Tell us about this neighborhood. And and how far back your own connection to Vancouver's Chinatown goes well my grandparents. It's Kim over the early nineteen hundreds and both my parents were born in Vancouver which is very unusual in those days. Each each of my grandparents had a set of eight kids and and in those days it was very unusual. Family started a business in real estate and they release Sixty S to cater to the Chinese. That we're coming over from Hong Kong and this year we will our sixty year. And I've been at this office thirty years myself. Andy what is your own personal connection to the neighborhood. Well I was born in Vancouver and it began my relationship Chinatown My family's relationship to Chinatown began. When my great grandfather came in the nineteen twenties to Vancouver and up until his eightieth eighty eighty eighty fifth birthday? He ran the most modern laundromat over on Hastings Street Later on other parts of my family my father would open. been the Quantel restaurant on pender street and be one of the first dim-sum Hong Kong dim sum parlors as the end family. Legend has been told that That that that's my my kind of beginnings and overtime Dom Chinatown has become. Both my views and my tormentor as a as as a place place where I focused predominantly my climbing studies and I guess to this very day it it I think is a neighborhood for which I care deeply for. Why do you call it? Your music using your tormentor news. People might understand tormentor. Might be something different. Well I think it teaches you that other complexities. Neighborhoods the the the the idea of diversity within a community and how you navigate through those differences and understand that just you just you just call Chinatown Chinatown. It isn't just one model. If that is a whole series of different communities of different kinds of of of cleavages that are involved in building community and making a community. I think that what's interesting is hearing that previous your speaker about how to Chinatown is the cheapest neighborhood in Vancouver I would also I would challenger to say that China Town is one of the most culturally literally rich neighborhoods in Vancouver and I think that it's in that capacity. It is an extraordinary space in the city of Vancouver for so many people both Chinese Canadian and non-chinese why culturally rich gets a lot of attention. We're we're calling this Vancouver's changing Chinatown given what you just said and given how culturally rich it is. Why do you think it's changing while I think it's changing in part because Vancouver is changing and I think within that change? It illustrates actually some of the ongoing challenges of changing city of of social social and economic exclusion of how a city can grow and yet people might not prosper and I think that that is probably one of the biggest challenges oranges. Not only for this neighborhood but for the entire city of Vancouver and I think that this is really highlighting some of the many challenges we are facing today that I think the question is how are we going to face it into the future. How does the location of this Chinatown Chinatown effect? What's happening do you think Andy? I mentioned earlier the neighborhoods that surrounded by what's happening in those neighborhoods and I think that that's the interesting thing. Is that a how that reflects. Actually the story of chinatowns across across North America that in many cases they are within the inner city that there have been a lot a lot of times quite close to downtown. And what's interesting is that historically they were in some of the least geographically desirable neighborhoods. You will this. Chinatown was on the edge of tidal swamp that up until the nineteen sixties. You actually have the canal it just. It would come in right to the Chinese Culture Center just a few blocks to our to our west and I think that that really I think really I think marked the neighborhood for for for many decades but then at the same time I think particularly within the last twenty years an increasing amount of folks folks have a particularly wealthy are are rediscovering the downtown core the downtown living and and are moving into the neighborhood and in the midst of that you also have the downtown Eastside And so how does the downtown eastside effect this neighborhood in particular. I think that it's within the downtown inside and Chinatown you. You actually understand China town. As a neighborhood of sanctuary and even as a neighborhood of sanctuary it is at its limits because of how I think the the the the the the inability to engage the issues of of secure housing the idea of inclusive economic development that it actually I think represents the elements through which we have as collectively actively as a city have failed on are failing to build a city for everyone who you call it and I want to get to caroline a moment because she has personal experienced in running a business here but when you call it a neighborhood sanctuary just what does that mean to well. I think that it's like you remember how it said how this was neighborhood through which nope brought in so many different people. It's not only was China's Canadian but I think so many other cultural groups whether it'd be the indigenous population Italians parts of the black community in in Vancouver that it was that neighborhood through which you could find a sanctuary in been in many ways because you were different and in that difference you were able to build. I think of very unique community. Carolee how do you see this neighborhood changing. I think that Like Andy said it represents a lot of what we're seeing in large urban centers across North America. So it's not just Chinatown. The issues of Homelessness Mental Health Drug addiction a lack of inclusion. I mean I think they're magnified in this particular neighborhood because because of our proximity to the downtown eastside and because in some ways chinatown it was just kind of left. I don't think that you know and it's wonderful to see this. This big audience here today. I think if we were to have this conversation ten years ago. I'm not sure that there would be as much interest but I think that you know for me the prospect prospect of losing this neighborhood. I knew that there was a lot of other people who have that same sort of nostalgia nostalgia the same feeling. For How do we we save something. That's an integral part of our history of our collective history and so we set up the Chinatown Foundation in two thousand twelve uh-huh precisely because we could see the things that Judy had mentioned in your tour. This was going to happen and it was gonna be very difficult if we didn't do. Take some action that it would just be lost or what to talk about the foundation in a moment. Tell me about running a business here. What is it like to operate a business in Chinatown and just hold on? TASHA's did you want to move a microphone. I think my experience is probably it may be not representative of everybody. WHO's running a business in Chinatown? I WanNa say that we feel that. We've been very blessed because I think that from the outside people phone new sort of the motivation. Why we set up this business? It wasn't just a regular business. It was part of our whole revitalization strategy under the economic revitalization vitalize ation pillar and we felt that restaurants were an important anchor for a revitalized Chinatown but but we wanted to create something that was maybe a little bit more traditional and was inclusive so we wanted everybody who was in the neighborhood To feel welcome and could afford to eat in this restaurant so I think because we sort of people knew what the motivation was the people kind of they they supported us and so I feel that my perhaps APPs. My experience isn't representative of what it's like to run a business in Chinatown but that's really encouraging that people bought into the vision that you had that that that you believe believe that people wanted what you wanted in many ways I mean the strategic objective of opening this restaurant was we wanted to try and bring people back to Chinatown China Town. We wanted to help build community. We wanted to elevate culture just a little bit and provide a good place for people who would be considered at the bottom end. Totem Pole like in a working sense to feel that they could come and they would have a good place to work so I think people supported that. I mentioned this tour that we were on With The Tour Guide Judy Lynn Maxwell. And one of the places we went on this tour was a storefront beautiful storefront incredible building. Lots of great stuff inside Ed but if you take a look at the window of the store front there are big red sale signs on it because it is a closing down sale. This is Ming were cookware. It's been around since one thousand nine hundred seventeen at started as has a general store and in one thousand nine hundred sixty became a cookware store and this is the flagship location which was just sold an anchor building in an anchor business in Chinatown and closing down. What does that tell you about the states in the shape of Chinatown in twenty twenty? I don't know who the man is that purchased this building and what is going to become of this building but it's no longer going to be a cookware store. This business has been around for over one hundred years and it's the only cook ware store in the city of Vancouver that sells both Western and agent. Cookware becomes not a cookware store owned by Chinese family but as store that sells two hundred dollars. t-shirts what does that do to the neighborhood. Well we already have a place that sells two hundred dollar tee shirts and thousand dollar sneakers. Yes so I don't know what's GonNa Happen here it's sad. I was crushed when I heard that they were closing this. Because this is the best cookware store in the city. I love it Jordan stores. Come and go. This is just one store. How significant is it that this store is closing down giving its history? I think given the age of the business how long it's been in Chinatown. It really made a big focus on what's happening in Chinatown in the order What they recall legacy businesses? It's it's been happening for the last ten fifteen years the businesses that have you've been stable or or the foundation of Chinatown have slowly either closed down because the parents have decided decided to retire in our generation our parents told us to go to university. You get an education. Become a doctor become Laura. Those were the important UH professionals to be in. Because you don't want to be doing what we're doing it being in the store you know twelve hours a day and working hard hard hours you hear those stories in restaurants as well same edifice Bronson yes and so that was our parents generation and so the NFL inevitably these these stores would eventually slowly fade Out and And shut down and it's it's too bad that's happening and and really there needs to be some sort of succession plan And we have the the great thing as Carol mentioned. That is now that we have from ten years ago if you had the same compensation I don't think ah you'd have half of the people here but now we have a good youth group here. These are the people that need to to come into the into Chinatown the town in and continue what are answers. Our ancestors did and there are a few real bright stars. That have already done that. We've already got the top restaurants in Chinatown the top bars There's a lot of good things that have happened over the last five ten years as well as well as the negative negative size business owners. And we're going to hear from one in a moment but what do business owners tell you about what it's like to operate in this area right now i. I think it's tough. One of we did a survey last year of our members online survey and and one of the biggest challenge was cleanliness Munis graffiti and safety. And we've been working with the city and city staff on seeing how we can work to to Alleviate or work on these problems I mean we are right beside the downtown eastside issues of mental health and drug addiction. Definitely are ev in Chinatown. And and that's part of a bigger problem in the city We're not trying to solve that problem but we were trying to create environment that safe for our our merchants merchants visitors coming to Chinatown for many seniors that come to China and live in Chinatown or have always come to Chinatown to buy products that that comfortable in this community so you know that that is really are has been our focus. Do you find that the I mean what happens in in one neighborhood doesn't stop at a street for example so if something if there's activity behavior the downtown eastside. It's not going to suddenly stop at a block it's going to move moved through different neighborhoods. What the business owners tell you but what they want done about some of the problems that you've addressed it in the issues of of safety issues of cleanliness for example? Well I think we're the only eight cents half of its budget on security patrol where we're small. We've got six hundred members and while other areas in the city are expanding their their dollars on beautification and banners and flowerpots. SAY WE WE'RE Spending half of our our budget on having control making sure our our our merchants are feeling safe and having that presence on the street. We've asked The city for increase police patrol and and we're paying property taxes and a property taxes have gone up quite substantially this year. So we're asking the question and what what is coming to Chinatown you know. How are you going to help us? Keep our streets clean so when people come there the feeling inviting and they don't come just once and then say I don't WanNa go again one of the with them to keep on coming back and that's what most sustained any business in our neighborhood. I want to bring one of those business owners into the conversation. Douglas Chung is the owner of home. It's a nice store in Chinatown that I was at earlier today. What is it like to operate a business in this neighborhood? Never to be an wouldn't be in this neighborhood if it wasn't for a couple of other business operators in the area Joran talked about some some restaurants and and talk to tennis before I moved in actually and You know we were talking. I was talking to her about openings shop and somewhere else and she she she was the one that why not Chinatown town and it kind of resonated with me. Why Not Chinatown? Like argument was like if we don't if we don't open businesses here they're going to be no businesses here so I mean that's that's one aspect the second aspect is there's there's a bit of nostalgia for example not from Vancouver but being in the Chinatown it brings me there. There's some kind of familiarity hillyard. There's always a familiarity with all the different chinatowns and I think that again touches back on on the rich cultural history of any talked about and I think it's it's important to be here but it's not easy. What's not easy about it? There are challenges that we face for example some mornings. You just have to pick-up feces from your front door. It's it's an issue that a lot of other communities have to deal with and it's hard to imagine to even comprehend unless you live the day to day if there are issues that we need to deal with with safety sometimes stuff. They don't feel you'll safe but at the same time. It's not an unsafe neighborhood. It's a it's an odd kind of dynamic. There's good and there's bad but they're definitely challenges that other communities don't face so those are two things that I think a might prevent somebody from opening a business in the neighborhood but be could could drive somebody out of the neighborhood. How do you address them if staffer worried about safety if you mention you have to clean up? VC's before you open the store in the morning. How do you address those things? And what do you want the city to do tutoring the way I look at it is if I don't open up here if we don't have business here to keep things vibrant Than it's just GonNa be like that everywhere and I don't think it's It's not something that would make me run away. I'm unique in the sense that my business is a destination business. It might be more difficult for some other businesses operators that Arnie a destination business and I typically catered to a lot of professional chefs in the city which you know a lot of them do operate within close was proximity of the downtown eastside and also with Chinatown so they're not unfamiliar with with that And that for me is was one the jaws of locating here in Chinatown in close proximity again to to some of the my customers and stuff to thanks so much. Yeah thank you thank you. I'm just briefly Jordan. What what would you want given what he's described? What could the city do? Would you want to see done to address those concerns well right now. The the city has the the Chinatown transformation team. They're looking at Preservation and the cultural history over a long period of and how we retain Chinatown as a distinct neighborhood which it is But we need some immediate action in terms of of helping merchants today and helping helping are the people that are on the street and I think that would go a long way to keeping the neighborhood vibrant and and and as we said I mean the people that are here are here because they want to be here so you know let's let's make it a friendly environment and so that we we can all work together so helen. Ma is the senior planner with the Chinatown transformation team. This was set up in two thousand eighteen by the city of Vancouver to address this changing neighborhood. Helen Hi hi. What does the transformation team actually do right? So I'm part of a community. He planning team and our big focus is we want to focus on the assets of Chinatown. Try and tell strength. Which is cultural heritage and his people and the many organizations -sation and businesses? Who are here so we really want to bring everyone together around a strong vision that we're GonNa take care of the neighborhood assets together? Because that's what makes Chinatown Fight Brennan and also that these assets can be passed on to future generations so in the future people can continue to have a chinatown. What's the biggest challenge? Chinatown Chinatown faces. I think we've heard a lot of the different challenges that the community face and is a serious project and it's very challenging. What we're really hoping to to do is to support the community in coming together and finding solutions and also finding more resources from beyond each of our means to help address the situation we just heard about Anchor building in anchor tenant in Chinatown That the business and the building has been sold to a developer. No one's entirely sure what's going to happen. There is immense pressure on this neighborhood given the price of real estate and also the beautiful buildings that are here. What can the city do to protect that neighborhood when that pressure is so overwhelming? Yeah that's a very good point and I think again. We really need to focus on the strength of the neighborhood. Abraham and the good thing is I really hear that people want to come together and find solutions that we haven't tried before and right now we're beginning to understand. Chinatown is more than the heritage buildings. It's really the culture and the businesses and these are all things up. We haven't pay a lot of attention to before. So I think by focusing our attention on some of what we call intangible heritage it will help us bring Chinatown to a better place. One of the things. We've heard this here but one of the things that I heard when I was going through the community today was that people feel as though the threat is immediate that there are a lot of long term plans that you've talked about your hinting at but people want one help right now and so what is it that the city can do right now to address some of the things that we've heard from business owners from people like Douglas for example. Yeah so I'm part of one team within the city but what we're able to do is to listen to the community on what they care about and ask them. They really good ideas. What are some immediate actions that they want to do and then we can help pilot some small projects to show the protests and able to convince all the rest of the city that does neighborhood is needing more attention and support so oh one really good example that we did last year is putting some new bureaus in China talent? That's something that people do welcome and they think it's helping to tell toys of China talent and bringing more positive attention. We saw one of those murals. That had been defaced Baker feeding today. I mean the murals are beautiful but if the issues that are around the Neighborhood Create Commotion Effect What You're trying to do. Does it hamper those efforts. Are you actually able to get the results that you want. Want to see positive. Change is possible but like everyone have set the challenges quite bake so I think it really does take everyone Jordan. Are you reassured by by what you've heard I'd like to hear something today from and we've got transformation team members and we've got members of city council here and through the Bi. We've been working with other organizations in Chinatown for again with property hatches going up to see where we can get some immediate relief in terms of helping us get graffiti off murals. Had people come down to take a look at and what do they see In our back lanes and the garbage bridge that that gets dumped and we need to. We need to make it a safe environment for for all involved in Chinatown. So Andy Handy part of this. I think is fundamentally understanding. How many of the issues? That Chinatown faces is a systems issue to be to be respectful to the city. You can't expect the level of government with the least amount of resources to deal with some of the incredibly huge systemic failures when it comes to housing security when it comes to economic development and expect just the city of the city government engaged this issue. I think fundamentally it is a question. June of asking. Where is the provincial government? Where is the federal government and I think that fundamentally it's understanding that Chinatown isn't Chinatown? It isn't Chinese. It's a Canadian Canadian community. It is a Canadian neighborhood. That's full of Canadian disparate. Helen just just last term you on this is is there the opportunity to pull back a little bit and say that didn't Tandy's point this is this is all of our concern. It's not just something for an individual community to be concerned about. Yes absolutely. China town is Important not just to Vancouver but to the entire nation and the Chinese can eight m have made so much contributions to society and in the process of their struggle mix society and better and more just place so absolutely agree with Andy. Have your work ahead of you Helen thank you. Helen Mas senior planner with the city of Vancouver's Chinatown transformation team in the fall of nineteen ninety eight. An elderly woman women known as the Cat Lady went missing she had a very Very Distinctive Silhouette and very recognizable. See you're walking into town a handkerchief on her hair. Our long overcoat like somebody that lived on the street. All police could find were her thirty. Cats shot dead mm-hmm. I always knew something had happened to her to vanish like that uncover the cat lady case from CBC podcasts. I'm Matt Galloway Vancouver's Changing Chinatown. It's a special broadcast of the current. The we are not as you can tell in a radio studio. I am in Vancouver's Chinatown to talk about the future of this neighborhood and others like it we have a sold out crowd with us here at the floater restaurant alongside three guests with me on stage. Andy Yan professor of urban planning at Simon Fraser University carolee chair of the Vancouver Chinatown Foundation. And also the operator of several businesses in this neighborhood and in Jordan real realtor and the president of the Chinatown Business Improvement Association. Thanks again for being here and being part of this discussion judy. Lamb Maxwell is is a tour guide in Chinatown and story as well and she told me when we were out in Chinatown earlier today. How this neighborhood was started so chinatown emerged? Because Chinese people weren't allowed to live anywhere else so they were segregated to this part of the city of Vancouver so this is the margins of the city was mostly men laborers that started chinatowns around the world. there were problems in China so a a lot of the men left their families behind went abroad to make some money with the intent of eventually returning home. Many did not but They were the ones that started chinatown. So how many were laborers. And then eventually people were working on the railway. The most popular businesses among the Chinese restaurants Laundries Andries Corner Stores Guard markets and various entrepreneurial businesses. Such as Taylor's this Chinatown started in eighteen eighty. Five breath Andy. And if you listen to that story how common is it to why these communities built up. Not just not just here in Vancouver but but right across Canada right across North America while I think it touches upon really how I think chinatowns began as neighborhoods where people particularly those of Chinese descent of found their first starts and they then they started off as a foundation to achieving their Canadian dreams. This and I think that for many generations. I think folks were lucky enough to be able to do that. And I think that. That's a remarkable testament to due to words I think the role of these neighborhoods in helping a number of families find their initial starts in Canada. But I think that Over time of course that does change and within that change. I think that that is another reality through which we are facing today as as we see the diversification advocation of the Chinese Canadian community we see different communities. Come in and out of the neighborhood that I think that it's a testament towards how Chinatown Hound is this neighborhood of beginnings. Tell me more about how that changes because again. It's not just here and it's not just in Chinese communities you have little Italy's you you have little Jamaica's you have LINEAS areas where the Polish community would gather and when the community expands the hub changes so. Tell me a little bit more about how you see that change in those neighborhoods. I think that the hubs certainly has changed. But then I think it's also acknowledging the fact that that Chinatown that was one of the few laps remaining working class low low income working class neighborhoods in the city and and as such. It's one of the few places that you've heard me say this before a sanctuary. It's one of the last neighborhoods of sanctuary. Let me see in in not only the city of Vancouver but Metropolitan Bank hoover and I think that that is one of the big challenges moving ahead. I think that a lot of this is very much the kinds of expansions of of of the community into communities as I should say into the many different parts of the region but then at the same time I think you also have to acknowledge the rather unique space and place in terms of history in terms of connections for both Chinese Canadians. And also those who aren't Chinese Canadians and I think that has provided a very unique foundation. That isn't necessarily found in a lot of other neighborhoods in the city. What have other Chinese communities and chinatowns across North America could done to stay vibrant as those neighborhoods as the culture has changed? I think that in part of it has been really a series of political political organizing. It's really looking at how to create a destination of businesses. That people people from across the city and around the region can come to and I think that it's been able to find a level of renewal towards small businesses. Give me an example of Um. I'm well actually one of the interesting examples is actually in San Francisco And really what. The Chinatown Community Development Corporation in San Francisco has been able to do to really facilitate the role of arts communities to enter vacant spaces and to ensure a level of vibrancy. Bad that I think that that is another element to understand the role of the arts in the vibrancy of the community in in the city and really allow allow for that opportunity to get people connected. Carolee why is it important that at a time when the Chinese community or communities are spread it as as they are now. Why is it important to preserve this community? Because it's part of our Canadian in history. I mean if there was any other part of Canadian history. I don't think we would actually be even asking that question so it really does go so for me. Back to the building of the railroad. It was important act of like I guess the most important infrastructure project like nation building project. In the history of our country that was actually facilitated because of these Chinese railroad workers. Can you imagine if they hadn't come over to work on this project very well could be part of America. You know because it was a lot easier connecting British Columbia to Washington state than going Over the rockies and think about how different that would have been for our country America would have control the entire west coast all the way from Alaska to Mexico and so because of that history. A neighborhood like this. You believe it is the physical legacy of that struggle and sacrifice so so for me you know. I think that there is a ah a change in chinatowns across the country. I do personally feel this. One here in Vancouver is special. Judy talks about how you know the beginning. The of Chinatown was eight hundred. Eighty five that coincided with the finishing the completion of the railroad. These people had nowhere to go and live. They didn't have enough money necessarily early to go back to China so they got this little piece of land on the edge of swamp as part of our audience. Listening to this conversation we are are joined by Stanley Kwok architect. Urban planner has been involved in major projects in the city. Including Expo. Eighty six redevelopment of false creek as well and the mastermind of Crystal Mall which opened in Burnaby in two thousand one Stanley. Hi The it's great to have you here. The you've been listening. What do you think how much time given what's changed and what you've been involved in in the changing nature of the city? How much time should be spent in preserving Chinatown? I have been in the city's cities fifty odd years ago. So Chinatown is very pot a very much a part of the life that I've been brought up with now as you have heard Chinatown is changing and it will keep on changing. To what extent will it change and Dan. How can we do what we want to do? I've been dealing with a question for a long time. Never really organized to ought to do it but while I believe nothing happens without money money it really comes at the base of everything and the way that you can create money in Chinatown to do. What Chinatown will eventually be is for all the property? The owners in China put everything into China and Chinatown Inc.. mcdonagh one big company and control that and through that that you could master plan to place you can bring up whatever you want to do. The second thing I heard is chinatown is many many things to many people and one thing for sure is like you have to think about is that is it a museum or is it a living living place on living community and I believe that there are differences in panel. And this is one thing that you need to sort out and I believe that my proposal health. What happens if you treat it like a museum? If people have an idea of what the community was and they see it in photos or they see it in the buildings. What happens if you treat a neighborhood like a museum a museum to slaughter all you have to have the land you have to control the lamb? And how do you control. The land is with money. There's no other no other way so I think that is the one thing that you have to think about how to to finance the thing to make peace and of course a museum cannot be this in this size it has to be a much smaller size and so you have to look into that and try to make that into a entity that can be digested aside from the financing piece of it. How do you turn something like this neighborhood into a living entity not not a museum piece? Well it needs a lot of study. I can't just so you just like this because if I say anything right. Now it's only my opinion as not with a lot of expert consideration given to it. And I believe it's a very serious problem that you should have very considered opinions behind fine all these forces to make the thing really happen. Do you worry that that the pressures facing this neighborhood will be so intense that those serious considerations may not be able to be made in time that this neighborhood which is under threat could face further a deterioration and further erasure because of those pressures. Well absolutely because you just mentioned earlier some peace already being sold to something. oedipus start being fraction off that way. There's no way you can do a whole Chinatown again. You designed a mall. That was in burnaby. Not here in Chinatown in China. Chinese focused mall if I can put it that way. Why was something like like that needed as the community changed? Why was that needed there? Because at that time you'll have a lot of population here. The Chinese population I'm talking about. There's a lot and westbound up but the majority of them are in burnaby. Richmond and Richmond has become a more or less a substitute for the old Chinatown Then there's a lot of Oriental population that is building up in burnaby. Be but there isn't such a thing at the time so at that time when the owner of the site came to me. I thought this might be a good idea but the difference is that Chinatown is something that people live their work there and shop there and I think that's what what I created and it turned out to be very successful if we were to have this conversation in five years time. How healthy do you hope this Chinatown would be? Oh Five. Years is too short to plan distinct together this thing and what I've just mentioned it'll take you at least ten years ten years. have in ten years. Do you think that this will be a living neighborhood. Thriving living neighborhood no. I don't think so because it's very difficult to get all. These small property owned us to come together and formed this Chinatown inquiry. Whatever you call it Unless you do that. There's no hope or to another Chinatown in my view. That sounds ominous tight. Sounds like the neighborhood really is is facing a serious threat very seriously deteriorating Stanley thank you thank you. Stanley Kwok architect urban planner in Jordan. He talked about the community spreading out what that means in terms of where people live of where people shop. What has that meant? When there are Chinese businesses and hubs malls in Richmond and burnaby? What does it mean for business here in Chinatown? I have to be a little more optimistic because I'm on the air so let's start with that the existential threat. Perhaps Jeff guys so chinatown. It's the heart and soul of the Chinese community throughout the lower mainland. You can't go to a mall in Richmond in burnaby and say this is Chinatown and this is where the Chinese population started. We have the buildings here. They're populated with seniors that socialize there. they play Mahjong. You know they come down to the streets and and and and have their lunch and then they go home. I think what we need is we really need to balance Few years back there was what was called the historic work area height review which many of the historic organizations were actively supporting to bring people living in Chinatown. And the whole idea is that you live you play and you work in Chinatown that up with a number of developments subsequently subsequently there's pushback on that but ultimately or ultimately you need people is on the street to make the streets safe at nighttime right now people come come. They go to the hockey game to football game. They have a beer dinner. Then they go home and I'm not talking condos or or social housing. We need a mixed community and and that was always what the discussion was to me though. It seems Andy. Maybe you want to pick up on this. That Stanley hit on the key. One of the key. The questions here. Which is is it for museum or is it a living neighborhood and how do you how do you try and find a space between the two right? Well I think first of all. It's really problematic. That neighborhood under glasses as problematic as a city of class that I think the city has changed and developed to a certain degree. Sorry I think through. which has I think a lot of people concerned about really the kinds of communities and in terms of connection and in terms of really an idea of of a of a greater whole within this? This idea of Chinatown. I frankly think Chinatown is actually an artifact from the future bat very much as an urban planner you see the ideas of mid rise walkable small business based neighborhoods and that's effectively. What Chinatown is and? That's effectively what most contemporary planners are aiming for and the fact that we're having trouble bowl or significantly challenges in terms of ensuring that these types of neighborhoods can thrive. I think illustrate. I think really the larger challenges that are happening in the city of Vancouver. I I think that the the idea that just sprinkle condos into the neighborhood. We'll fix the neighborhood. I think that that's been problematic. We have some some words upwards of eight hundred private condos sprinkled throughout the neighborhood In around the downtown eastside that I think really creates a bit of what is happening in in not only Chinatown about the greater downtown Eastside to another voice from our audience. Kevin Hong is the CO founder Executive Director of the foundation. Hi I'm Why did you set up your foundation? I think for us. We wanted to bring together the worlds of a a cultural heritage and social change. And currently we're working on issues around food security youth organizing and race and equity issues. What role does this neighborhood play? If as we keep hearing hearing the community itself is changing and the neighborhood is being forced to change by a number of different forces but in that what ruled Chinatown. Play I agree with Andy in terms of like like Chinatown holds. A lot for us in terms of what Vancouver will be like in Canada will be like and I think it's important for us to think about planning and land use. We do recognize that. There are certain land defenders right now out there. And how do we tie Chinatown to larger issues. Such as that when we're talking about land use so when we're thinking the property rights and money capital. I think Chinatown holds a lot of those complex issues. That if we're able to solve here we can actually apply to a lot of different parts Of the country. What is interesting is there's a lot but but a lot of the recent activism that's happening here is being led by first generation Canadian native people who perhaps don't have a long standing personal history with China Town but they see the importance of it? Why do you think that is I think There is this identity piece of round around where like myself speaking for myself Be Growing up here. I didn't really know the importance of Chinatown. All Its contributions to its history and our shared the benefits here around the food that we have like. We celebrate Vancouver as having the Best Asian food outside of Asia and that comes from the racial isolation the hard work of the people that came before us and for me to not have learned that history through the public education system and then being a part of the community with mentors and folks guiding writing me and showing me this is actually how the world was built and the that you benefit from. I felt a responsibility to be part of the Tummy. Just finally more about that. What you you see is your responsibility to fight for what? What is Chinatown as a city of like a neighborhood of sanctuary and that so far so many people not just the Chinese that they found themselves in here they were able to create a life here and I think that is something special that we need to protect? Kevin thank you thank you. That's a long. He's the CO founder Executive Director of the foundation nation. This is the current on. CBC Radio One. My Name's Matt Galloway in Vancouver at the floater restaurant. I special broadcast. This is Vancouver's changing Chinatown. Carolee tell me about the activism that you have been led to. You're you're listening to Kevin talk about what he's doing. What got you thinking that you could have a role in helping to shape neighborhood? As well I think you know growing up in uncover and seeing sort of the future five ten years out knowing that Chinatown probably would be would be gone Thought it was is important to try and come up with sort of an idea of how might I help and so. We established The Vancouver Chinatown Foundation in two thousand twelve well. A registered charity and the mission was to revitalize Chinatown. Well preserving its irreplaceable cultural heritage. I would say as a subtext. We sort of said to ourselves a place where people want to live work and play so getting back to sort of some of the questions. People are seeing the talking about here. We didn't want it to be museum it. It was always a place where there was commerce. There was you know interesting things that you could do for entertainment retainment you could eat and so it was like for us. We organized around three pillars which were physical revitalization economic revitalization and cultural revitalization so almost all of the projects that we work on fall within those three pillars talked about live work and play. The living is a big part of that and to live in the neighborhood. You need to have somewhere to live in and that leads to conversations around development and The the place of of condos the place of intensification in neighborhood like this. Can you have all of that at the same time. Can you have a neighborhood that we'll have more places for people to live but also preserve the neighborhood character. Absolutely I mean I think that in the foundation nation we say that change is inevitable but change without preservation is just as bad as preservation with no change so oh sorry provide development with Teens I'm confusing myself. But it's this fine line where you're trying to preserve and develop and I think that everybody has a different sense for what the right balance is awesome. I think that that's what we're talking about in this room. We all understand the importance of our cultural heritage but how much development is right for the neighborhood and so I think think that it's gotTa keep within the spirit of what Chinatown was meant to be heard was Jordan. Can you do that. Can you do both again. This this is it's a it's a conversation that's happening here. But it's happening in these communities across the country where people worry about neighborhood character and they say that the big threat to neighborhood characters giant building but yet we want people to live in the neighborhood and we want people to be walking and have this is on the street as you say. I think the word condo developers have become kind of bad words. Sort out there. And and you know a lot of ball. Half of my membership or property-owners Chinatown and you know lot of them have been in the community for a long time. It's a very important community. were were were small community in the big picture of the city And Yeah I think we can do plan development and it's all a matter of balance I think and you can you can plan that development elephant and not demolish the neighborhood. Feel the character of the neighborhood. What's interesting you say that because as as I've been here actually in this this office across the street for thirty years we talk about heritage in Chinatown and we all have a definition of heritage based on the time that we came to Chinatown in the time that we grew up? So so if you were here in the eighties and you said this is Chinatown. Herod Heritage You would not see this building here. You will not see any of the buildings across the street. You would have seen to two two buildings. The whole area was produce and the main area. Which Chinatown was pender street? So it depends on your on your vision and your time line of how how you see. Chinatown and Chinatown. Had A big growth spurt in the eighties and it developed well. I think there was a good balance at that time. And I think moving forward we have a resilient community community and I think you need to support the businesses need consumers. Just the last point on this. Do you think it's likely in the heated heated nature of these sorts of conversations that a word like condo will cease to be a dirty word. I don't know I don't think so. I WanNa take you on one more. Stop of the tour that I went on with Judy Len Maxwell we were at a beautiful heritage building the Chin Association an amazing easing amazing sight. And you walk up these steep marble stairs into this room. The door opens up. And you hear a very familiar sound. We've often to What I call a gambling den? The elders come here every day nine. Am to four PM and you can hear the tiles they Play Mahjong for small amount of money. It's wonderful for them. They get to use their brains. They get to exercise. I get to socialize. They're so cute. I don't have grandparents These are like my grandparents and so if this building wasn't here I mean the other one across the street was turned into a nightclub. Where would these folks going? I'm not sure they wouldn't go to a regular community center there to other floors upstairs The next floor they can do dancing Tai Chi practice destroying so this is just just a wonderful option for them into the the the next generation do they have any involvement in a place like this or any interesting. I like this A lot of people parents have not encouraged their kids to get involved Maybe second or third generation have no interest anymore anymore. There is no succession plan. I hardly ever see any younger people around here so these people are in their eighties. And not sure what's going to happen after they pass away. The game looks fierce. They look very serious. Doors Chow is. The CO founder of the youth collaborator for Chinatown. She's with us here in our audience at the Florida restaurant. Hi Hi what's it like for you to hear that scene from the Chin Association with a group of people playing a fierce game. I I want to join them. Does it seem like part of the neighborhood to you. Does it seem like the future of that neighborhood to you because as we heard one of the the assertions that was made aid is that young people perhaps have moved away. The aren't interested that this is a neighborhood that was for another generation. Not for them. Well I'm not eighty and I'm in the neighborhood and also a director of a clan society The Hoping Benevolent Association. So my sister and I and a a few other young people who have joined on the boards of associations so there is an emergence of young people for Youth Collaborative for Chinatown. We also Our aim is really to strengthen the heritage living heritage of Chinatown with experiential programs and projects most notably is our hot and noisy Mahjong socials else which we practice outdoors and we have. We have read cheering society too. I think it was my sister too but we have have attendees who are as young as two months to one hundred years old. And we've been doing it for five years. Why is this important for you to be involved in this? I think are one one of the impetus of Starting five years ago was really seeing the rapid changes in Chinatown but also throughout the city. And what we've learned over the years is really that people are yearning for a sense of belonging as each building changes. An goat goes down each business. Changes is changes. Our collective memory of the place changes and disappears and and we're finding that many people are coming back to Chinatown or wanting to connect with their identity and build those relationships with this place. What's the biggest threat that you think? The neighborhood faces not doing doing anything. But I don't think that that that is the case we have a lot of big challenges coming up. I mean the past many years have been challenging but we also have many bicker challenges coming like the coming down of the viaducts. Saint Pauls hospital coming. You know the northeast false creek another adjacent neighborhood hood that's going to be having a massive development so the what we think of now is being challenging. We have a lot more coming and I think we need to plan for that and really have some really wholehearted discussions about what we WANNA see. And that's exactly what we're trying to build. What we want to see in the neighborhood is development dirty word in in creating a future for China? I think I think it's kind of become a dirty word but I don't think it has to be. We need development element of seniors housing. Cathay Villa Seniors Home is development. That is welcome in the neighborhood for Chinese seniors and culturally appropriate appropriate care so nobody has been picketing their storefront. What about a tall glass building where many thousands of people might live? I think it really depends on the the pace of change in any place in any neighborhood and also the contents and the soul of what goes in it and this is what we're seeing all throat thank hoover that a lot of the change is so rapid that people are losing the connection to place people it just finally on this people have said and we had this conversation a little earlier that in many ways. It's a chinatown but it's also about the city and this is happening again across the country where people are being priced out of neighborhoods. People are being priced out of cities. Where issues are developing and spreading across the city and people wonder who the cities for and what the future that city is and they talk talk about it in a generational way and they'll say the next generation is going to be faced with this burden your that next generation? So is this really about the future of your city. Yeah and the future of our country I would say but that's where people like. Andy N come in plan and and give the insight around all that we're really grassroots roots and we're just trying to maintain the connection of our community with this place. What do you love about Chinatown whole whole the people the people absolutely and we're still here? There are plenty of people here you know. Even though everyone talks about Richmond being another you you know Chinese community and why come to Chinatown the relevancy of it. There's actually a big community here and you. I welcome you to come to our Mahjong. Social during the summer to see that community unity. We have people coming from the suburbs as far as Langley to come and participate with the whole family. What was it the hot and noisy? Yes on Social Doris Doris. Thank you thank you Doris. Child Co founder of Youth Labrador Chinatown in the remaining minutes that we have. We don't have an actual crystal ball but let's pretend that there was a crystal ball here with us at Florida restaurant Jordan ten years from now what. What would you like to see in this neighborhood? I'd like to see Well first of all I think Chinatown over. The last hundred years has evolved over with different waves. Chinese people coming into into Vancouver and I think it will continue to evolve. I think it's great to see this youth involvement. Ah The chair of the Chinatown Festival for six years and every year we brought in hundreds of volunteers because we wanted to bring them back to see what the culture of of Chinatown was and I think moving forward. I think that should continue. I think We need to see balance. I think we need to have residents in Chinatown much like any other neighborhood in the city that they can support the local businesses. The biggest challenge just coming up ahead. We'll be the growth of Saint Paul's and the northeast if he's false creek because those huge developments chinatown will be at the edge and I think we have to see. I think that's a bigger threat than losing chinatown in itself. Carolee ten years from now. What is the future of Chinatown? I actually am with Jordan. I'm actually kind of optimistic. I I think kind of optimistic. I'm optimistic I liked that declared of I'm optimistic and you know a lot of it is just because of you know this interest in like the people in the room is Jordan. Said I've been here for almost twenty years now and the youth enthusiasm N.. Engagement really I think bodes well for for a future of a place where people want to live work and play and we're seeing that businesses are coming. We're going to be opening up this summer. We'll have a chinatown storytelling center. We're opening a retail shop within their I'm reopening the whole restaurant was a which is a well known restaurant that was established in the nineteen fifties truly crazy. They'll don't be restaurants August. My Dad was not happy but but I know of other people that are wanting to open businesses too and so for me part of the reason why I wanted to open open. Chinatown Barbecue was just to prove that you could. That's what authentic revitalization could look like and could be financially sustainable. Because anything that we do you know they can't you know people have to make a living doing it and it's actually proven to me that it does well enough that I can open another restaurant. My dream would be able to to open a third restaurant but I don't know we'll we'll see could be trouble in the families concerned about to share and due to you at ten years in the future. What's your vision for this neighborhood? Well I mean first of all I think with Doris as well as the audience today. The reports of the death of Chinatown on have been greatly exaggerated. Let's begin off with that initial acknowledgement. It's also coming in from another element to understand. That Chinatown has a future. Only if you want that I think from Mark Twain to John Lennon that I think that that there is this idea that it is. There is a future for Chinatown. Only not if I wanted or Caruana Jordan wanted if we wanted content and. I think that it's in that idea of Chinatown as a collective project for both Chinese Canadians and those who aren't Chinese Canadians is that we come together and help shape this neighborhood and help shape the city. It's a poetic way to end. Thank you andy. And a professor of urban planning. It's seven Fraser University. Carolee chair of the Vancouver Chinatown Foundation. Jordan is the president of the Chinatown Business Improvement Association around of applause. AUSE for what you've heard this evening. Smart stuff the also want to echo what we've heard from the stage. Thank everybody for coming out today. This is important. It's about this neighborhood neighborhood. It's about neighborhoods across the country the country itself and The fact that people are here and engaged in that is really encouraging and it is really optimistic. So thank you all for being here at the Florida restaurant here in Vancouver. My Name's Matt Galloway. This is the current. Thank you very much for more C._B._C.. PODCASTS GO TO C._B._C. Dot C._A. Slash podcasts.

Chinatown Vancouver Chinatown Foundation Vancouver Chinatown Foundation Chinatown Chinatown Business Improvement Dom Chinatown Chinatown China Town China Chinatown Inc.. Matt Galloway Judy Lamb Maxwell Jordan China Town North America Andy eastside Vancouver Stanley Kwok Jordan CBC
Food Neighbourhoods 137: Bangkok, Chinatown

Monocle 24: The Menu

06:08 min | 1 year ago

Food Neighbourhoods 137: Bangkok, Chinatown

"Hello, and welcome to food neighborhoods, son, monocle twenty four I am Marcus hippie. All's it is various locals love for their food entering offerings and in this series, we get to know these places this week we had to Bangkok and it's China town show a, nor Carey's Atari American foods rice who's being writing about Tyler spe, Mus street food, vendors for years. They are under threat due to tightening of laws trying to clean up the streets of Bangkok Jordi takes more calls Holly fish on a tour of Chinatown to visit some of her favorites. Chinatown is the birthplace of ties street. Food aid arrived at the same time the Chinese immigrants arrived in the eighteen hundred and there were canals crisscrossing, all olive, Bangkok, and the Chinese immigrants couldn't get jobs because a lot of the jobs were close to them. They were forced to sell food alongside the canals. And they sold the food from their homeland nude. Till's chicken rise stuff that you see now today, and that is changed typhoon for the better. So this is there a big Chinese influence on Thai food then. Oh, absolutely. We wouldn't have noodles with the Chinese, we wouldn't have frying, we wouldn't have duck we wouldn't have eggs as a savory dish, we wouldn't have broth. There are so many things that the Chinese did to advance to help, advance Thai food, and that the ties say they took an adapted and made better than the original. Okay. Well, maybe when gonna try that today wherever where are we going to go? We are going to go to a place called check. Boy, which has been around for around eighty years amazing. Let's try them. Great. Care about. I think is an Indonesian thing, southeast Asian anyway. It's. The old old practice of, of sticking meet on a skewer, and then grilling over caught cod. Kohl's and the secret to grace attain. I think is the smell of the smoke and the charcoal on the meat and the grill, the kind of burnt edges of the meat when you taste it because it's just so good. And here Jay, this is one of the older and more famous purveyors of citations. They specialize in chicken and pork. But now they've they've recently recently branched out into beef and shrimp and yeah, they've been around for maybe sixty years. So a good long time in the same location. Even so many street vendors selling. I'll t- night, which ones. Just look at a line of people look for the charcoal brazier, because that is integral district food if there's anything that's going to be heated up or fried, or grilled, you need the charcoal. Otherwise, it's not proper ties street food lending. This is important as well. I like to look at the condiments tray on the table or see the vendor's cart, and see if everything is laid out properly, not a whole mess like things thrown everywhere, because there are, there are places like that too, and they're very unappetising. Right. Good. Nice like vendors popping out once in a while used to see that on a daily basis. Now it's getting harder and harder. Would you like the park curry or a great curry whatever? You're okay cycling. He'll know what they didn't have they didn't use to happen across the road. They've expanded. The size of the street. Okay. Bide they I was here. I was last year, maybe two months ago. So since then they've expanded their super famous, they're so famous that the I mean normally a setup like this would get you shut down by the Hancock. Authorities but they're so famous they've been around for so long that they have all their permits and nobody harasses them the original guy, he was an immigrant from, from southern China, and he sold his Curry's from bamboo pole across his back Korea's on one end and a table in a stool on the other end for the customer. And when his daughter was old enough, his daughter would walk around Chinatown with him selling Curry's on her back as well. And that's what she is a permanent now on her on her bag a woman restaurant. Yeah, exactly. She Seventy-three now but she still wakes up every morning to do the cooking just around the corner at their shop house, right here. Yeah, it's amazing. And so they have like about three Curry's a day and a few stir fried dishes. And now the, the sons he's one of the son and daughter-in-law helps cook as well. So it's a real family thing. Thus was Jodi nor care in conversation with Monica lls. Holy fish up. This has been episode number one hundred and thirty seven food neighborhoods. For more food, and drink stories student to the menu every Friday as one thousand nine hundred London time I am Marcus. He be thanks for listening bye. Now.

Chinatown Curry Bangkok Bangkok Jordi China Marcus hippie Tyler spe Holly Carey Kohl Monica lls Jodi Jay London Korea eighty years sixty years two months
Moving Cargo In The Arctic

NPR's Business Story of the Day

04:08 min | 8 months ago

Moving Cargo In The Arctic

"Warming temperatures in the Arctic mean transportation routes for cargo ships are slowly opening up that is something. Shipping companies are watching very closely but there are very few ports roads or railway links in the polar region. NPR's Jackie Northam visited a town two hundred fifty miles above the Arctic circle to meet a man trying to change that. And there you see this is the peninsula. It's called terminus about more than ten kilometers. Rafael looks out across a foggy. augie harbor towards a strip of rocky land jutting out from the Coast hearing cure keenness. He's the mayor of this town of three thousand people. In the far northeast Corner Noor of Norway close to the Russian border. Rafael Sen says cure keenness is known for its views of the northern lights. And for the hurt grooten. A popular wheeler coastal steamer. That meanders from here to Norway's fjords down to the southern town of Baragan very nice view especially in the summer when you have midnight sun is going down in the horizon. You can see the subtle four hours. There is no sun on this bleak frigid day. Most people looking out over this desolate solit- harbor would only see gray Arctic waters and ice but mayor Rafael Sen sees opportunity. This peninsula has the possibility to be a huge Arctic Elson wants to build a deep water port warming temperatures mean more cargo ships will be plowing the Arctic sea route between in Europe and Asia. Raphael says the goal right past Kirkenes. He also wants to build a rail line to neighboring Finland to move the cargo from the ships ships into Western Europe Solo Plan. Is that if you go ten trains from us every day and We should have about one million containers align would need buy in from the Norwegian government but Oslo has nixed the idea. A steady founder simply wouldn't be enough cargo to warrant the cost that's done little to dampen Rafaelson's enthusiasm born and bred and kickin this the balding square-shouldered bear is a diehard booster of his town so he started looking elsewhere for investors promoted it a lot in China and has been here to look at the possibility. They're interesting to see if this is possible. Rafael has visited China several times to meet with government officials and businessmen. His municipality signed a friendship agreement with the Chinese city of Harbin this year the annual winter festival was called Kirkenes. The world's northernmost China town the town was for stupid with Red Red Lanterns and the Chinese ambassador paid a visit but Rafael says not. Everyone in town was happy. With the festival's theme people agree now listening. That should not be Chinese. But it's engage people that's that's a Rafael since hopes to create a logistical hub has backing from some businessmen in the area area but Thomas Nielsen who covers Arctic issues for the independent Barents Observer. An online newspaper says he doesn't see cure knish as being the new Singapore thing apart from Norway is one of the biggest shipping nations in the world and not even ownership incompetent so looking to her kid. ICUS to invest in harbours Mark Line tain an associate professor of political science at Norway's University of Trump's. Oh doesn't think Rafaelson's plan is to far fetched. He says China has identified. The Arctic is an area of growing economic importance and wants to create a so-called polar silk road by developing shipping lanes investment vestment opportunities across the Arctic China has really starting to open to the possibility of expanded shipping throughout the Arctic. And it really shows that China wants to be taken seriously as an Arctic player. China is already sailing ships through Arctic waters. Rafael believes. It's only a matter of time before it want to be involved in a logistical hub. Jackie Northam N._p._R.. News Kickin us.

Rafael Sen Arctic China Norway Jackie Northam Arctic China gray Arctic Kirkenes Rafaelson Rafael Thomas Nielsen NPR Raphael Europe Oslo Norwegian government Finland Harbin solit Baragan
#109 - Johnny Ray Zone

Best BBQ Show

1:02:36 hr | 1 year ago

#109 - Johnny Ray Zone

"The comment. Email. The need. The eight. Now I got job. Doug Obama t buckle Ray on. They attacked on as the Avante on, on the land beef. Evocation of the. Los Angeles city food, culture diversity, so many foods are represented here. I traveled most recently to eat at the food bowl while I was there. I went to a small place in Chinatown to eat hot chicken, if you haven't heard of Holland raise. It is a mecca for Nashville style hot chicken. The owner Johnny raise zone. Didn't just open a hot chicken place out of nowhere. He did his research. He went to Nashville and tried princes Bolton's, and many other spots in Tennessee. He wanted to learn in the same way that Texas barbecue is traveling globe. He transplanted Nashville into California. I watch a lot of food trends, and I can say that the hot chicken trend is going to grow as fast as barbecue. I think we live in a time, where people are afraid of copying we live in a time, where cultures or defensive and we all need to be a little bit more open minded when someone like Johnny brings a food to a new place. It is a homage to the originals the same way people in LA are creating Texas barbecue at a level that you can find here in Texas intention, and authenticity are important to me. And Johnny Ray is someone to watch. If you wanna see great intentions, he puts his staff above him. Itself in many ways, which is dead on with some of my favorite barbecue joints. It's not just about good food. It's about the place the experience the staff. There's not many people that love their staff as much as Johnny. And there's a reason that people waiting his line, just like in barbecue for hours. It's been on my list for years ago. And I was so excited when I sat down at the bar, my heart was beating out of my chest. They saw like my hot Sando, and they asked if I wanted to try extra hot. Why not right? If you saw my livestream on Instagram. You know, I put that away as well. I wanted to prove myself and once I had they handed me a hell in wing now, Howland the hottest chicken. I know it's the hottest chicken because it gave me gloves to eat it. They also warned me that there may be more of a day to recover from it. I tell you the story because I don't think this interview would have happened unless I had myself, I wanted to have the experience and get the respect of Jalan raise line cooks. I wanted to get their respect before he asked, Johnny for anything a lot of work goes into the show, and it's not just writing emails and editing. I'm out here working to be part of the scenes to cover the story righteously to be, they're not just to take pictures, but to experience it as well. So I hope you enjoy this interview with Johnny raise zone. The master behind Howlin race. You're listening to or watching the best barbecue show. We've got a fun episode damn here, but Johnny raise on owner creator of Hollan race. Probably the most popular chicken place in LA. I think so. We're, we're busy. We stay busy. So you guys were open every day Monday, yet, six days a week Tuesday through Sunday eleven to seven if you get in line by seven, we still serve you, so it ends up being open to, like, eight eight thirty some days, you know, and then we do preorder before we open and throughout service. We have a Helen vault where we released like these fast gift card things quarterly and. You can purchase those. There's a limited supply, and then you can place like fast pass order thing, so you can skip the whole line or, yeah, we've, we've had a lot of requests for. And we've been trying to figure out how to do it, and this is something that recently just got in plan and did. And it's working pretty good people are pretty happy about it on I came here. Couple days ago. Ninety minutes is pretty quick line here. That's really nice. I've waited in line for barbecue for three or four hours before. Yeah. Started going to snows I was in that line probably three hundred hours in that line. It's crazy. Yeah. Do you. I mean, one of the reasons I wanted to come here wasn't just the amazing object, but you have this amazing air this fun attitude. This just everyone psyched to be there wants to see everybody. Everyone's Howland dancing showing off people's Instagram's in the social media at that was at organic, did you just decide you wanted to have like the best attitudes in the world? Or what? Yeah. I mean it just kind of evolved. So I've been a chef for about, like thirteen fourteen years now. And when I first opened it, I didn't know what to expect. I just knew I wanted to bring hot chick Intel a national hot chicken and introduces the city and share with the city, something that I fell in love with out in Nashville. And so I did my research met met families met the people behind it. You know, like went from place to place trying, the whole scale of things, you know, going to different spots, that aren't even maybe tied and relevant to Nashville hot chicken, like Arnold meeting three or Mount Zion church on Easter Sunday, just absorbing the culture and the people that's really something that I also fell in love with and wanted to introduce to, you know, LA. So part of that what you're, you're saying that dancing the celebration of life celebration of, you know, gratitude towards somebody for, for spending ninety minutes of their time waiting for you know, a counter seat, or whatever it may be, you know sharing that love. And you know that, that was an important part to what are also wanted to bring LA was that, that southern hospitality that, you know, appreciation for the individual and human being regardless of race. Culture at necessity. Whatever it doesn't matter. It's like we appreciate you kind of thing. So it kinda it took on its own thing, you know, people would come in with their phones. You know, we started like, hey, we got a Snapchat or Instagram and everybody yells, and that started thing, and then people hear it in the line. And so then when they are going up to order, whatever they pull out their phones, and then it just kinda became its own animal slash beasts, and it is what it is today. And it's continually evolving. No. Did you know that you were working when you try the chicken for the first time was just total fluke or were you interested in it for you went to Nashville? So, yeah, I went I went out to Nashville to study. Sean Brock's cooking like this antebellum southern cuisine. That was very like. Had this kind of air of mystery to me, you know, because typical, you think southern food you think like, you know, a MAC and cheese, collard greens, and things like that. But rarely think about things like three sisters succotash or type of aging a Kathy like leather britches like. Had this alert see where I was like these names in these different dishes, that have been passed down through tradition. You know, and so I want to go out there and studied that and that's Ridgely. Why went out to Nashville was after my father passed. I was kind of, like, you know, I realized life is really short and fragile and mice will go out. And do you wanna do learn what you want to learn about? And so I was willing to of like pay for a flight and do a stage, which is where you go out and you work for free for sixteen hour days, six days straight, just working for this guy. And I just fell in love with the culture, I had hot chicken film over hot chicken, but originally that's why I went out there. I wanted to, you know, study that type of cooking. It was something that really for some reason, it drew drew me towards it on you create that amazing experience for so many people, I kind of I was going to let someone in front of me in line because. I saw that. I might not get a seat at the bar, and I was like, well, I'll let them go and then the moral clue. And they wanna sit at the bar wanted at experience. Did it feel that way when you had your first touch sandwich to just like look at the sandwich is that why you make such a grandiose experience here? Well, I mean the first time it had hot chicken wasn't actually in a sandwich. So just like that, that Evelyn of the hospitality and passing the sandwich or doing shallots stuff. I had breast quarter in. I fell in love with, with, with the quarter pieces of national hot chicken because traditionally fried chicken served by the peace. So it's like a ten piece meal or whatever it's they take a breast one breasts, and cut it into either two or three sections. And then, that's, that's abreast piece. Right. That's constitutes one piece, and it's a way for them to make more money. And then you're, you're wing will be separate wing. You know what I mean? You're will be your drumstick will be drumstick, but quarter pieces. In the drum are still attach and the backbone still on there. Now backbones are used for like stock, and they're very flavorful pieces of the chicken, albeit they're not like the most enjoyable to eat just straight backbone. But if you really suck on backbone and taste it and get the marrow and everything it's like chicken soup, you know, it's like amazing flavor profile and so our quarters and quarters national Hutchison fried and quarters. It blew my mind. I never had it like that before growing up in Los Angeles. So the, the sandwich was evolution where my wife is like we gotta do Sandow L as a big on Sandoz and, you know. We weren't necessarily like crushing it with the quarters UPS guy. He also makes her hats to shut up to level five where yeah. Yeah. There we go. There you go. I mean how much more supporting local UPS guy is the guy that makes your hats and anything like. Yeah. Super cool. Everyone in LA kind of has a second, gigging every person. I've got a new GRA from this whole time has they're either acting there. My travel companion is like making jokes without my script. Yeah. But I'm sure the guys that were here to have other things that they do in other hustles, besides just working here. But now lately it's been having babies a lot of babies. That means they're comfortable that means you're being a good boss. Yeah. Now I was talking to my Barbara about that. And it was pretty cool to have in the past. I think three months three employee's birth child's not that employees or maybe his girlfriend, or wife or whatever. And. It's cool. One of named anikin when named him Johnny, Johnny. So it's just I don't know, says it's school and little Holland ones is we're working on those, we had a few different baby where they sold out pretty quickly. Funny story. One of our customers kids would always come in. Get a gold tooth right here super sweet kid, I gave him a little baby shirt, like a small shirt and he worked for a school photos. Superdome. Copy. That's I have it. It's a soft copy on my phone. That's amazing. Also is there a secret? I mean we've all been the places that have different levels of. The employees are happy unhappy, whatever you do something every day. Is there is there a way that you kind of interacting with guys and your seems delegate a lot? It's like you, you trust them eating that's part of really keeping everyone happy. I think it's a combination of so many different things you know, it's a first it starts with getting the right person, like really a firm believer on not hiring based on experience. Not just okay. This guy's been chef for twelve years, as you know, or he's worked for some mazing restaurants. Let's get you know what if that guy that comes in interviews like he's got an ego about him. You know and wants to kind of change the way the system's going, and things like that. I don't think that's beneficial, regardless of experience. So part of it starts with the hiring process really having an open mind to individuals that may not be necessarily qualified at the time or maybe they don't have certain streets, and many. They don't interview very well. And they don't come across as like an amazing amazing employees. But you can just you have a gut instinct, like this is a good person, and I can teach person. So if someone's a really good person in trustworthy, and I can teach them, you know, obviously, they're gonna make mistakes. But if I can teach them. They have a job, you know what I mean? And there's even some people that you'll meet, I don't know who was on the line, at a time that you were on there. But if you remember any names or anything like that there's a few guys that just? Just there are, and who they are, and how they interact and stuff like that. You just you feel like you know, there's some people, you mean you just feel like and those people that I like to hire, you know, and it's not about the experience and then, you know, in terms of pay and hours and cutting hours, we're very, very generous with that, you know. And then taking care of them too, in teaching and guiding and sharing knowledge with them, I feel like that's something that makes an employee value. The job even more is when they feel like they're gaining tools to utilize in their life, both in their career and outside their career, and their personal life, you know. By the guys guys, a helpless like credit card debt or help me get a guy car, you know, help guy his teeth, you know, schedule, this dentist stuff for him and help help pay for some of that because. Teach just rotted into visas, like little things like that goal long way, you know, and continually being that that head of that train where you're just like what's next. And how am I gonna get there? And then Armagh going to expand the roof of the ceiling for these guys to, you know, how many make it where I can double their salaries, even though they're getting paid really well right now you know how can I give them even more, you know how can I grow as a mentor boss leader, chef, and that mindset that student mindset feel like it's can be as if it's like a magnet, people get drawn to that. And they want to be a part of that. You know, and they wanna work environments like that because it's so positive and lifting. So I feel like those are some keys to success that I have with my employees and, and even customers to, you know it's the same as the same relationship. I feel like. A customer employees because they're going to employ you're gonna talk to their friends. You know, it we're going to talk to their friends about their experience and how was and so, you know, there's a two bucks all eyes on me. You know, you really need to pay attention how you conduct yourself with every single person, you know, and then doing things like this, like this podcast and people people will respect that, you know, like like today's technically like a day where I could like rest and just chill. And do you know, like nothing is Sunday was a little hectic and. But here I am sitting down with you. I know you have a short period of time in L A. And that's isn't that hospitality. You know what I mean? That's what my, that's what I feel like my job is chef, you know, is to be us biddable with people with human beings. You know. And so those are those are definitely some reasons I feel like. That culture of how it is. And what you got to witness is how it is. Because it's crazy 'cause you were only there for maybe twenty minutes thirty minutes. You know, maybe longer. Yeah. You had you had to extra high. And yours is really you had your toys to so funny, because when my dad was still around. He was the same way like you where you would have these different three toys three comic books and converted images from the flat art to three d art, and you'd have all different little gadgets and stuff. And when I was growing up like dial up modem fax machines to max still the, the multicolored ones, you know, I don't know if you remember those ones. Yeah. Like the blue the orange and stuff like that. And it was so he remember like he was struggling with some of the devices, sometimes because he's older guy in one time, he got so mad at that MAC that he took it outside and through in the floor and hit it with a hammer, and it was just like pieces shattering everywhere, and technology's really come far away, but it was funny seeing you on the counter right there. Like it was reminiscent of when I was growing up like this, this older gentleman with all his toys, and gadgets, and he's like, due to sing like enjoying life, and enjoying enjoying the different technologies that are available to him. I've been watching you guys and I was going to say the you not only support your staff. You know, only trust them, you also promote them. Yeah. I pretty sure I follow Lewis, and Mario and at least one of the person because you gave them a shout out, and I'm gonna Pol this dude, tag them all when I was on my way here and gave just told him what's up? I'm going to be there. I'm so psyched. And there like Roger that, like ten let's go, and it's cool because in the barbecue world, especially you talk about supporting them with their teeth or whatever there, there's a lot of stories like that I've had on the show that they had to bail their guy jail or help them something or. There's that support when you have when you have so many trust. You know, some guys look for green people they, they would rather have someone of his idea what they're doing. Because songs are good person teach. Yeah. Do you is it just kind of organic? You see someone has birthdays on this happening. So you just kind of shut him out, or is that is there like a technical way that you do that, or you're just excited? I mean it's, it's, it's as having conversation with another gentleman about this, too. It's like there's just a genuineness to when you're goal in your mission. And the reason why you're doing things. Is very pure and like our goal being to be able to welcome people to celebrate. Whatever. Need celebrating at that time. If someone wants that shout out or someone to asking for a shout out or asking for something or, or maybe you overhear customer saying, I wish you would have got the hot bloom, hots rain in front of him right there that second, you know, like. Because we hear it, and we just make it, you know, and it's, it's more of a mindset, I would say, then it's like picking and choosing to celebrate, you know what I mean? Like, obviously, I knew you're like you're, you're out of town guy, not necessarily, maybe a local visiting and you mentioned like I've been hearing a lot about it. And you seem to be savvy about food little bit. You know so once it kinda like give you that experience. You know, I don't know if you may be had national check and prior a little the. Yeah. We're okay. Prince's, maybe not prince's. Yeah. Bolton's. You'll love you should check out Bolton's because he does some barbecue stuff too. And I remember last HAMAs area, Bradley, like maybe eight months ago or longer. He was outside of his store this little barbecue. Just do Bareback ribs, you know, and he's known for a little bit of a hotter, national hot chicken, a little bit more of a dry rub, but he also does hot fish with catfish bomb. It is a big spaghetti side bomb, destroying beans. Abi it like they're a little bit more less than maybe you, you might like you know, but they're still really, really good. And his sides of great his beans are great. You know. So Bolton's I would definitely recommend, you know, get to get the hot fish for sure. Getting mustard onions pickles on it on the white bread. You make make a little sandwiches. Spicy, make you sweat the heat in that room, the humidity in that room like the. The stickiness of the walls. It's all this beautiful experience, you know. And that's like that's definitely with barbecue guys. Recommend not spot foreign degrees. She's great hockey. She's had. Second, baby. We, we actually flew out some of our staff members out there and we did a pop up with her. So we cooked our wings around Christmas time and just for free for, for the city because we knew the city was getting word about us, and we wanted to bring it to them and show us show them what we were doing. How are we're doing it? Now in create that was amazing. And princes. Princes, temper fire David thing called a. Pepper. It's deep fried grilled cheese, basically. Yeah. And they serve it with, like apple compote, and hot chicken, obviously tenders. And that's pretty cool. I think you like that, but yeah, it's great. There's all these different different right across from downtown, if long or whatever you wanna wait for a second, go across the street and get a Bushwacker. Have you ever had a Bushwacker? So Bushwacker are like these smoothies nest, with, like, like a frozen alcoholic beverage that Scott like rum in it. It's got like just so many different alcohols in it and. Wiles. You can get half wack, which is like little one, and it's not just that place that serves it, it's kind of a Nashville thing Bushwacker, you know, and. Goes great with hot chicken, because especially afterwards, and it's a little bit alcohol and it's got that cooling. You know, so we always end up going there after we go to. But it's know that city and those experiences. That's what that's why we're doing what we're doing and how we're doing it for sure. It's, it's, you know. It's our interpretation of it. But we're not trying to be something that's not us. You know what I mean your show? So you could you have the resume you have the history to the you could be in some place that has ten seats and you could be doing these big momentous or fancy things. But you chose this very simple thing. Do it perfectly. So was that we're you just excited about the scene? How did you get from? I like hot chickens to like I'm gonna have the most fun hot chicken restaurant ever. Yeah. I mean it was doing something that. It's doing something that I got into this field for I got into being a chef not to have ten seat restaurant, or do testing news, or, you know, like be super creative with the plating, but, you know, maybe maybe the taste isn't there to be honest. There's places that I've gone where the plate in the service and it's beautiful. It's amazing. You know, but on a soulful level deferred felt detached it felt mechanical felt almost medicinal, you know, like in a way of like it was just so constructed in it was beautiful. Look at it's beautiful for the Graham, beautiful to shout out and show people what you're doing. You know, it's like. But it didn't hit me and there's been a few fine dining restaurants. I've gone to. Some in France that just really they had that, that soulful nece to it. But also that artistry and that composition that a lot of defined dining restaurants have, and why cooking was was I wanted to cook food that had that sustenance characteristic. That's so fullness to it that crave ability, and that, that memory associated with too, because a lot of food is memory, you know, like, now, you'll have that memory for, for the rest of your life where you tried to extra hot. Then you try the Allen, and you were just you look wrecked, you know, in that you'll have that for the rest of your life, and you'll have moments, maybe where you'll be like chopping out with your friends, and he's like, man, I love spicy food, you'd be like, okay. Well, there's spot, I want to go to we're going to sit down and really eat this. And you tell me, you know, if you still like spicy food after that, or whatever, and then, you're, you're taking a memory that you have, and then sharing. Memory with somebody created a new memory, you know, and Thomas Keller. It's always been about memories, creating memories, and then also referencing memories and things like that, like hit a lobster dish with peas and carrots, and the peas and carrots was a reference to when he was growing up to frozen meals that had the peas and carrots in it. Exactly. And, and that's awesome. That playfulness that, that, you know, throwback news to, like, like old school. But when broiling that's awfulness. And that memory kind of creating but also referencing is what inspired me about being chef and that's why I'm doing this. And it's because to put simply I got into being Scheffer for those specific reasons. And then also I liked the hard work aspect to it. There's a reason why there's like, outs reason why, you know, the, the lines right there in front of the guys. It's just this just embodies so much about who I am, as individual Anna, chef this, the layout and everything like that. It's my little mini dream restaurant, you know, and it's funny because now you have you have a lot of places maybe looking to this restaurant for their design or there, you know. And that's cool. That's awesome to inspire other people. And so, yeah, now I just keep. Going keep moving forward on it. But those are some of the reasons why I had it how I have it is because you know what I got into it for what excites me about it. And what makes me happy about being chef? You know what I mean? Reeling back a little bit. You started with a truck. Unfortunately, I didn't get to experience that, but was the same vibe was. Did you have seats seats or what was what was the truck, it kind of all into this kind of the same thing? Yeah. Traveling around. So the truck didn't really make that much money. The truck was a taco truck. All white talk truck that we painted black. We threw a few vinyl stickers on it, and it was built to serve tacos. It had seen table. Eight thirty six inch Griddle one. Maybe twenty five pound fryer, one, one fryer, and yeah, it would it would breakdown after driving for forty minutes, you'd have to put a timer on, and then stop driving after forty minutes and then let it down and then keep going. It was not fun. But, but you know what it was. It was it was a my foot in the door to serve national in LA. And I want to Guinea investors involved. I didn't want to. You know, kind of sell out hot chicken and just do it for the money or whatever I wanted to introduce it to the city and do it in a way where I'm representing, what I fell in love with about national. And so there is no music had little bluetooth speaker. I mean you can call it that, but now what's not bumping like that. Exactly. It wasn't. There was not long lines. We all were only serving quarters, we were a bunch of sides like black-eyed peas like just a lot of different cucumber salad that we still get like requests for today. You know, some of those sides potato salad, you know, things like that. Moore signed focused and quarter focused than it was just chicken focused. You know. And that kind of took its we were making. We weren't really making money, we had one employee and most of the money that was made went to paying him and paying for food, and we did have enough of a following where, you know, we just stay open and not have to close it, but I least truck for six months, and I did pop ups in Venice, or downtown Silverlake, and I started to get a feel for where we were busier and several really busy downtown rule really busy, then it was like, you know it wasn't as visit. Like we were a little more health conscious out there. I don't know. But we also didn't have a name at the time. So then we go, and like a month or two before our Lisa. We introduced the hot chick. Sandwich, that was the first time ever that we had lines was was when we announced doing hot chicken sandwich, and that was my wife's idea to do that. And. Yeah. Manda Chapman, she. She's like to put a hand on there. And we spent like a lot of time on the layers of it. How it's composed even our spice plan. We went through like twenty seven to two hundred at different times, scaling it by the grams, so we would chain. Okay. Take out two grams, this two grams of that at one gram of this, and then we make it test it, and then we would be like, okay, let's do four versions of that with two grams, more black pepper one gram last this. And so it was just like this branched out crazy, you know. Fining technique to, to find a spot spiceland when you re literally controlling it by the Graham. And yes, so hot sand gets released and we pick up some traction from that that was really good. And then we go into some restaurant different restaurant deal negotiations, but they all fall through, and I kinda got point where I was like, really lost. I didn't know what because the truck was closed and all my restaurant deals fall through. So I was like where am I going, you know what I mean? And then I renaissance KYW line at a food event Alvin Caroline he's known for doing excellent, creating excite, he spot right here burger show. Yep. Spot out in New York. Now he was opening here unit one twenty where loss and now resides, and he's like, yeah. Come on down. Check it out, George Houston. Mazing person landlord of the building. You can help you get into feet, you know. And so we ultimately negotiate a really good deal where, you know, we can get in here for a very low cost and open up our doors and George George helps us build a restaurant. And that was kind of the way how raise was born into this space and since then devolved like massively massive like this room was even ours, thinking, when I saw the doors that better taking over more spits starting into over like we have. Twenty thousand pounds of spices back there right now. You know what I mean? Like like fifteen thousand rate there. Yeah. We have fridges they're just dedicated for, you know, wings, just dedicated for isolated fridges, you know, all at different temperatures all specific reasons bone in bone out, etc. Like it's so broken down, and it's great because when you go into the restaurant on the experience that you just see counter you see, but they're so much more behind it on your. Barbara milk, put the chicken in or you could say wash was awash. Yeah. And you're, you're going through a lot of steps to when that Sando hits your hand yet. So many so many steps hands is it isn't a hard process to teach other. I mean you haven't I'm guessing you have it broken down. Very simply for everyone and people kind of take turns on their job. I get the pace but was it we're figuring out because a lot of guys. Yeah. And is it just that important? He's person just does their job and then hands it off yet pretty. I mean that helps consistency of product, you know, when you serve like. Like seven hundred Sandoz or six hundred Sandoz eight hundred a day in that's not even including quarter. Pieces wings tenders all that stuff. We're close to a thousand two hundred people when you start that many people, and you want your part to be consistent, you know, you do kind of isolated where it's like that's our guy. You know he's making buns, and then we're ready to move that guy to doing another role, then we train them through it, and we don't make it easy making complicated. Because with the complication comes consistency and quality of product if they understand. Yes, complicated. But if they understand the basics behind it, and why. And the complicated ideas behind it to why then you're going to get a better product. So it's more time invested but it's worth it at the end of the day, too. Explain those different, you know, reasonings behind, why we do it like this, and this, and this. So it isn't really easy. You had. Have you had have you had a good one? Somebody held it for a long. Do they get like a kind of a cue or you all just kind of winner, usually it's the chef that's on expo? Or someone see someone hold the camera. It's like. It's like someone's asking you to do call, like someone's ask someone holding the camera is asking you to recognize them. So sometimes you just recognize them what up. Hey, you know, or you can do is shout out, or you could do something, you know, but I feel like if like look like you hold your camera or your whole data earlier camera. Right. And then I'm like. I mean how awkward is that? And that's what people do, do you know, like like in other restaurants. You know, like say you come in you pretend to be like. You know, a tourist or something with the heavy accent, the hi, I'm from Germany, just recording this, my name's special. How you doing? They're gonna feel awkward about it. You know. So how do you lighten that up and give them what they want? Essentially, you know what I mean? They want. Hey, what's up? How you doing? Hi, germany. My name's Larry. I'll be taking your order today. So I recommend you know, the hotlinks whatever and it's just like that's what we're doing. So those are the cues when somebody wanted. So have you had any surprising people stop by fun stuff happen where you know, you didn't know someone famous or someone interesting that in Hollywood or in LA? It's interesting because like you're kind of famous you do, but you might be into other famous for other things. Is there a time that you remember where you were like really excited when someone showed up? Yeah. I mean I we try we are we have a pretty. Like, like high list, or good list of celebrity clientele, like that. But honestly, like, you know, everyb- everybody's saying, you know, like what makes them different than the obviously, a lot of money and, and being recognized in the streets and stuff like that. People who I've been most excited to serve, you know, have been definitely Kendrick Lamar you know, like, like we did a vent with. Elon Musk was doing an event for the boring company, which is a putting a tunnel through LA coming out of Hawthorne and their lawn. Musk and Kendrick were sitting down and moving out check into them and it was really cool to, to meet them. You know, shake their hands chop it up with them for second. That was really cool because I like people that aren't flashy. You know with their stuff, you know. The chains or whatever you know, like he's just very humble in cool guy in that sense. Lot NBA basketball players, I grew up playing basketball and big part of my, my discipline in team, oriented nece, that is instilled in me. So whenever NBA players come in a love. Love seeing them. I love how tall they are. When say there's like a family in line, you know, in the family's not necessarily that tall. And then there's, you know, on Andrei stat admired, you know, or Amari start admire walking by or whomever and it's just super funny. Seeing that diversity, you know, that, that such a someone like climbing under the door. Yeah. Exactly. And that's that's that's super dope. You know, so, but everybody I mean, even down to regulars down to people like yourself, that each have experiences and unique experiences that you. You know, are just super funny, you know, with your do gadgets and devices and everything, you know, it's cool, you know. And everybody really is VIP in our in our is, you know, like, rarely will we put like VIP on a ticket. You know what I mean? Like. Oftentimes are VIP's are people that maybe maybe one time they ordered the wrong he level or something like that. And we're making it up to them. That that's a very important. Don't mess that, like, let's take care of this person because maybe we did make a mistake, you know, and, or they ordered it and it was too hot for them. You know, and we have to kind of, like make it up to them because our job with the cashiers is really explain to like this is very, very spicy. You know ghost pepper Habanero Trinidad scorpion. We're talking like some of the hottest peppers in the world Carolina reaper. You know, so. We take that on our selves, if someone orders it, and it's too hot for them. Maybe we didn't do a well enough job explaining it you know what I mean. And that does contribute to the line, and stuff like that is because you do have a bunch of people thinking. Okay Helen race. I'll take one Santo Jalan. I wanna get your signature item. You know what I mean? We get it, how our get a whole bird, Anna batter's box Hallen chicken that is sixty dollars a lot of wings in whole chicken, and they're getting it Hallin. And so we have to really back slow it down and explain to them like have you had goes pepper before. Or we'll just give them a sample. We'll be like here's our extra hot to try. And how do you like that? How in is one above that? And then they go down to like a medium or something like that, because it's our job, you know, being hospitality industry. Take care people. Do you see noticed from talking to people that there's these inbetween, medium, plus, and there, you see kind of people looking in the mid range, more, or people to show up and ask for Howlin and really mean it? Yeah. I mean, I think over time we've developed such a following in such regulars, you know, like we have people that Tuesday squad Wednesday squad, Thursday, Scott. Yeah, a lot of that line is people coming back. You know, it's regulars people who they love their medium plus Lewis style. They love, you know, their breast quarter with collard greens. They loved their wings hot with amac salad, you know, or they love their fries and. Like waffle. They just wanna come on the weekends only on the weekends to get a waffle. And so. The, the people coming in and ordering the Jalan you know, it can be like trysts or people who haven't had it before. Luckily, you know, because we have such a large amount of regulars, and people in LA that keep coming back, we have to deal with it as much. But yeah, you have your thrill secrecy, every people coming and seeing the videos wanting to feel the pain. Is there still one of Holland? Yeah, yeah, you just got show that you can handle, you know, like like the Halloween or even extra hot, you know. So that's why like the first piece that I gave you extra hot it. What I was doing was I I've seen if you're gonna eat it at all, you know, but second, I wanna see how you responded to it. You know, like in terms of your body, how much sweat percolated you know. How did your eyes get, you know, like? Cried on. Yeah. How how much hallucination did I see you kind of, like, you know, seeing and stuff like that? And you got you got like a good. Yeah. You had a good buzz going. You know, there's funny because you were talking you were talking to people, I think, at the time like the counter next few guy named Ben was hit just come back from Austin. Those funny coincidence, Lau where you guys similar in line. I think so I didn't I wasn't looking around that much in line. Yeah, but yeah, I think we were close the might have been. I think they were kind of halfway or finishing as I said, okay had gotten an extra and kind of passed between them. And I don't think anyone actually. Yeah, yeah, no because I heard them saying something about the hot like Easter on them. And he's like, man. I really wanna try extra. I was really afraid. So I was just like deers. Liz, do it, man. Like now's the time and. Did in line. You have anybody that you were talking to or anything like that, or were you kind of like a few people? But unfortunately, I was because everyone was getting ready for the event, I didn't have anyone to kind of hang out with. Yeah. When I did talk to people in line customers and stuff like that. And I was just telling them how the things I knew what I was planning on getting. And then texted me, get ten Sandoz did it on. Let's get more interesting if he actually shows. Yeah. And then what I also didn't realize an Franklin and Sam Jones or doing a book signing. She didn't know that. Yeah, sudden, I look and I was like Erin. And I look at what's up Sam Jones shook my hand. See you, man. Yeah. Run into him at a bunch of. It was just hilarious because I was, so you're here for us. I thought you were here for the book signing, and then you're like you know what the lines that long, hop in this. How cool awesome, I've been following forever. I've been kind of on the hunt chicken train. Although there's not much in Austin. And I did I ended up less time I went to Tennessee. I went to Memphis got heady bees and the couple of places there. But how'd you like the heavy bees in Memphis, because I haven't been out there Lanta or Memphis locations, yet it was consistent. It's cool. It's like a brand new building the merchants fund and went there three times. For barbecue competition people don't realize a lot of barbecue competitions. You don't get to eat much. Yeah. Everyone's. Yeah. Don't you have to have a lot of little pieces? Yeah. The idea the other thing is coming to barbecue. I don't really enjoy very often because it's they're, they're trying to make one by two super flavorful. So we'll just inject it so kit. And marinate it and coming from us Raghu or something like that. Yeah. Painful, sometimes it's kind of like a waste as a chef. I would never go to any part you competitions. Well, you know, it's funny is speaking on that something, I trained my guys on the collar greens is what I'm telling him about the bras, I explain to them, like, yeah. I don't want one spoonful to be perfectly seasoned, like, like perfectly perfectly, and it's too salty, I want you to be able to take the glass of the broth pot liquor in drinking and one and it's crave -able where you can drink the whole thing. You're like damn that's like that hits me, you know. But if you take that brought me drinking, and his sue salty to overseas to rich, then you're not gonna want that whole broth. You know that whole. You're in pain in another way, which oversees into your mouth that sucks. Yeah. That's interesting about the competition barbecue thing. It's it's frustrating because I want to cover more those Greek guys doing it, but the food is just rough, like a chicken thigh that they cover park ache. And they lacquer at right? Saying, lacquered firstly cook it with, like butter basically in these little pans. Hold it in the shape and butter poached. Yeah. And then they cover it in this sauce, put back in cover it literally lacquer at like candied, and it looks good and it probably tastes. All right. But like you need that gives a small. The ideas, like there's just going to a tiny piece and the judges and we'll judging I don't wanna get into. Yeah. I like that's like the one that the LA times LA times food bowl was, which is you just show up. You get to try thing. There's no voting. There's no Aaron friends always going to have the longest line. But everyone out something really flavorful, something that really represents the way they cook. And it was just I think it's cool to just have chance to be you to be forced into this. Oh, we gotta beat. There's some competitions in Austin, and they're a little more fun. But it's like sometimes a corn dog wins and like this guy made like these MARTINI glasses with, like a really nice, kind of grits. The cheese thing, it's like fancy grits pimping grit, sippy, what? Was a fees to make its talian. It's commerce on. I don't know. It's like it's kind of like grits dish with P polenta polenta got it was like a polenta with perfect pizza wagging brisket. And I was like that was an incredible bite. The corn dog one because it was still warm when it got to the judges table just like stupid, and I like when people get to express themselves fully. It's kind of like how you get to do. Exactly what you want to figure spices, you figure out the process. Did you see this area chance? I mean obviously this wasn't, you know, this is in part of kind of, what was originally here, like I went to scoop across away. And that was really awesome. Everyone in there told me to get the same play ver- which was hilarious. Really flavor, the Bianca, Brad Janka bread. That's funny. And, and so they all told me I actually got some before we met up to their as so you said, I'm gonna go to scoops, or a day, a lot of all the food, I have to put something else on your probably seeing. That's also a big thing about what, why don't serve ice-cream you know, like that's community. Those are your neighbors in like did were they here already? Yeah. So have you seen like your line or your attention to the spot change, the more people show up it wasn't like I was kind of scared of the concept of even opening here because. It was so empty there wasn't that many people here. You know, and it's not like you drive by and see you can't. You can't see our restaurant from the street. You know, and also the parking is not the best. But there's there's a magic to to it. You know, there's something crates. Yeah. It's nuts. Little, there's those little kids rides. Yeah. Yeah. It's very southern to. Yes Chinatown, if you look at the labels and stuff like that, but one thing that environment was like I saw these, like chefs from, like ocean, seafood, or one of these restaurants carrying pigs whole hawks two guys carrying pigs up to the restaurant at five in the morning. And that was like a sign for me, like you're doing right, bro. Like that's when I was in national guys, like walk around with no shoes, and they were delivering beans restaurant, you know, like, like raw actual beans in their pods. And it just really was reminiscent of that another is this little barbershop next to prince in Nashville. And there's a barbershop right there. Very. Older demographic Barbara shop. You know, it's not your new age. Barbershop kind of thing it's like you know, but it's really cool because when I saw that it reminded me of Nashville, you know, the sense of community of the all the different restaurants. I it's great being chef gives you Emily, pal it food for the pellet for experience and seeing because I talked to Brian Furman who's a does crackling in Atlanta. He talks about how he plans restaurants in community. He doesn't want to be in the city wants to be where the people are families where you will wanna come regularly. You get a sense of. Find you found the spot because of the vibe around it not just because it was the right square footage or had the right Fryers or whatever. Yeah. I mean, I think it was a, there was a lot of different reasons. Why we came into your I was this was all we could afford. We couldn't and keeping it in the family kind of thing and not like going to some big corporate like company that wants a franchise. Yeah. Like, like big one, you know like so that was one too. It reminded me of. The south a little bit like with this such clash of, and it's also reminded me of LA to how LA is it? They were serving national hot chicken in a food Bauza in Chinatown in next to Bunn place. There's a tee shot. You know. At at little bookstore was books are wasn't there at the time, you know, and it's like it was just it was cool. Concept to me, I felt like it was very LA, but also, it was a landlord that we could trust and that stood behind us and wasn't just trying to get in, you know, all these different people in gentrify, or whatever I feel like this is there are people that will say this is like gentrify, but it's not if you re like this is go look at lemonades, go look at it, like, you know, all these different places like and the tender agree. All these different areas. Yeah, I grew up in, in Silverlake. Right. And it was so different than it is now. So like massively, you know. So when you talk about gentrification there's these areas of LA that trust me dates go through it, like hundred percent. This is like not even not even close this we're in a small. Five hundred square foot little thing, you know, here and it's just two people trying to do something for LA in the sense of like introduce a ditch. And now it's like now to me now it's all over the place you can get it, and a lot of different places, and great on. There's a certain. I see I see you have a lot of focus. I see that because you have that focus there's a generosity to what you do. There's a you don't care if ten more chicken, places open because you're doing the way you want to, and you're doing it. You're living your best life. I guess is the best and kind of cliche to say now but you're doing what you want. And you think that that's really kind of the secret to be happy as it's like just trudge forward on exactly what you like. Yeah. I mean, I think integrity and what you do. I think. Also why, like, like why are you doing it? We're not doing this to get rich. You know, and try and make massive amount of money and take over the world or whatever, you know, we're not trying to open up, like forty of these, you know, and, and have it all over the place, you know, we're day, you know, like we're known for a certain quality. And that's what we're focused on, you know, and a lot of people in a lot of lives. Depend on this, this restaurant now we have close to thirty employees. When I started one employee, and I started here, four employees, you know, now, it's like thirty thirty people. There haven't been easy. You know, it's like it's become this family and in this culture around it, and the expansion and being able to serve more people making the lines less less long. You know what I mean by by making it more efficient and really cranking it out without sacrificing quality, you know. But I'm not fazed by this because I feel like how raises something that is fortunate enough to almost become this institution in such a short period of time. You know, when you look at the reviews online, the sheer volume of them and amount of people to come in and out of the stores in amount of people that have memories here, and in that three year period, it's insane to me. And that's that's something that gives me a lot of joy is how important, we've, we've kind of become to the city of LA and it's not just hot chicken too. So when you when you look at these comparisons or whatever, you know. Why I feel okay was it is not so much living the best life, because it is very stressful. And difficult to manage a restaurant, with, with this long of a wait. With this many inquiries online in emails with you know, problems happening on the daily or whatever and delegating and all that stuff. It's difficult. But. It's more about the culture about why we're doing it. I feel like the reason people are coming in waiting line is not just for the hot chicken. You know what I mean? There's, there's more to it than just that, you know, and that's. Hard to replicate. And so that's why I feel blue k with, with things you know what I mean? What I mean? Because that energy that on Beyonce to the stories the history. That's that's something that, you know is unique to ourselves. And do you create a culture? You've created this family. A lot of the fans, you know, they're listening to this. They might be trying to start a restaurant or they might be working on a recipe or there's they're thinking about something beyond their work something. Maybe they're just trying to cook a good risk it because they want press her friends. I asked at the end of all the interviews. You know what your message to the enthusiasts out there, someone who wants to come here, or just wants to make really good hot chicken at home? What's your message to kind of keep them going? Keep them motivated. I mean students. Stay humble stay, stay hungry. Grind work. You're off, you know, don't be afraid life is short. It's very you're blessed with, you know, this opportunity to, you know, go out and get it, you know, some people may be extremely difficult for some people it might come easier you know, but as long as intentions, and motivations and dedicate. Is there I feel like you will be successful? It may take you years, thirteen years to serve my own or no ten years. My own restaurant. You know. And it took my father passing to start my own restaurant. And a lot of things throughout my career and situations that I've gone to have been difficult, but it's been about the mindset and my perspective that's helped me get where I'm at now. And a lot of strong people and a great team of people that you trust and develop, and who you try to exemplify to them as they can trust you. It's not just me. You know, that is how raise it's all employee's. You know, Amanda, it's all the people in the back end. It's everybody, you know. And so it'd be selfish to take credit for just that. And saying me like, but what's got me here in my career is definitely my mindset you know, getting, you know having. Something negative happening turning that around into a positive. And how can I learn from that, and grow from that constantly trend improve in, you know? Being okay with working long long hours because that's what it is. And people ask sometimes, like how do you do it? How do you how are you still working on the line three years in at the same freaking restaurant serving? Right chicken, right. I mean, typically as a chef thirteen years in the executive chefs first off, they're not on the line at all. Usually, maybe they're on, like, you know, expo pleading some food here and there or they're doing the inventory, and then maybe not even doing story. They were just kind of like managing walking around, but here I'm that's what makes me happy is serving the people passing sandwich crack joke or creating a memory or, you know, facilitating a conversation between staff and customer by saying something, like, hey, hey, Brizo talking about that one time you went to target and. Got kicked out, you know. And then he'll have to make up something, you know, because maybe it's not necessarily a true story and he'll be like, yes. But that's amazing. You know, and then that facilitates, like this, this genuine laugh between somebody and another stranger. You know, so a lot of those things are what I like to share with young culinary ins or young business owners, or young chefs and entrepreneurs is to not, not not be afraid and just, you know, there's a reason why all these keywords and these words him saying are so consistently shared throughout all these different leaders throughout different platforms, and it's because it's true. You know, just really dedicating motivating. They're not good. They're not. They're not supposed to be taking for granted. You know, and there's a reason why you always hear that. Because e you can be like oh, yeah. Stay motivated. Oh, yeah. Get educated. Oh, yeah. You know be confident. Fearless all that stuff. But there's a reason why a lot of these different people are saying, and you have to find the thing, and then you can just trust for towards, but a lot of times what you want to take. Yeah. Because you think you want. You know, I started off thinking I wanted to be in a reggae band and being in a band trying to coordinate that made me hate it. And then I thought I wanted to do tours and I started this beer to her company, and I started hate beer, realize those more of the tourists because I was. They just they had expectations and in Austin, there's some of the breweries are in these little industrial areas up pretty their beers, delicious, and the experience is great, but just I got tired of people having a bad time because they wanted to. Yeah, I'm sure you have that challenge people people show up. It'd be like this better be good. You know what I mean? And like I'm like, you know. This extra Sando for you. You know what I mean, coming from my man Mariscos paycheck, trying to joke it chop it up chop chop it down to that negatively down, and for some lovers. Yeah, you know because there's a reason why they're being like that. You know, maybe they want the tension, maybe they are having a bad day, you know, and even sometimes in the lines like twenty five minutes, we'll still get people trying to cut the line is like twenty five minutes like after. S someone to bug you as I was like, I don't wanna think Skippy. Task into it was like, hey, I'm supposed to be with Johnny. Yeah. So I kind of all right now. Yeah. And I just went in and just to make sure that people didn't think I was like, well, that's, that's like, very, very southern very, you know, conscious socially conscious thing you know, is like some people have that awareness is some people don't, but it's important to not judge on that, and accept people for who they are, and how they are and, and work with it and deal with it and move forward. And some of those, those customers or clientele, I take great opportunities for me to teach my staff and for me to learn as well, because it is so difficult, you know, and that's where just going back to the mindset thing. That's why have that mindset and that that mindset has enabled me to be successful. I feel like Johnny. Thank you, appreciate it. Thanks for having me believe that I got an hour of talking with the NFL like ten minutes. Awesome, cool. And thanks for putting it out there. You guys are killing it, and it will be the top of my list. Appreciate it. Thank you safe travels. All right. There you go. You. That was an hour ready. I was like I try to on these podcasts. I try not to talk.

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Celebrating Lunar New Year With Food and Culture

Reset with Jenn White

14:43 min | 6 months ago

Celebrating Lunar New Year With Food and Culture

"Hi I'm Jen White. And this is your Sunday reset. Firecrackers are popping and lions ends are dancing this weekend as Asian communities across Chicago land bringing the year up the rat with parades and events across the city what we want to prepare you for the festivities in the coming weeks so today we're talking about the history of Chicago's Chinese food scene joining me are the CO host of the podcast Chewing Louisa Chew of the Chicago Tribune Beaune and WBZ's Monica ing welcome guys. Thanks JEN JEN own. Hey Fat Choy to you again. She fought cy. Yeah in translation the basically make a lot of money but also happy New Year essentially happy new year I will I will say thank you right back at you. The two of you recently presented speech together to the culinary historians of Chicago it was called the legitimacy and legacy of Chinese food in America. Monica I what your your perspective about the legacy of Chinese food in this country. Well you know I. I looked at this issue because my great great grandfather came here at the turn of the century to start Chinese restaurants and he had a whole bunch and You know I've always kinda turned my nose up at Chinese American cuisine and basically food that was designed assigned to please non-chinese audiences mostly. And so I took a look at how that evolved and why it evolved and I take my hat off to my co-host Louisa. Because she's always felt like this cuisine which is now a hundred and fifty years old at least does have legitimacy the Messiah Enright Louisa talk about that and specifically Monica comes from us. I mentioned before a Chinese American Restaurant Dynasty here in Chicago. Your grandfather had Harry Ang's famous Ho Sai Guy Restaurant is where Daley Plaza stands now so this was a time when you know it was Chinese. American Food Chop Suey which was a really amazing innovative invention here in this country inspired by Chinese Chinese food and also but rarely primarily for non Chinese customers diners. Because that was who had the money in his we talked to one of the You know one of the founders. Actually the namesake of the Chinese Chinatown a museum. He said at that time. It was primarily non Chinese customers. Because that's who had had the money to be able to dine out you know so. It was an incredibly innovative time. And so you of all people Monica. I'm so glad you've come around but we've got the whole talk that we're gonNA release as as an extra on our podcast this week so people can hear it all right. What are some of the dishes? We see that are typically part of the Lunar New Year celebrations being a southern Chinese person on my mom's inside we really like to eat rice. But you'll typically see a lot of dumplings and noodles. You'll see fried rice. You'll see a lot of actually sweet and savory bean go which are the rice flour they come in different forms like either cakes or dumplings orioles he little stuff sweet balls in soup coming up and so. There's a lot of of different really traditional dishes. See coming up in the next couple of weeks as we celebrate two in Spring Rolls Aka egg rolls to wellspring roles are a lot lot more delicate. And that's kind of where the holy grail. The Big Chubby girl that you see in the United States came from but in spring is the Spring Festival. New Year's is also so called Spring Festival annuities sort of delicate spring rolls which can be baked or even steamed but also a whole fish. Because you also can mean surplus Angie just in the middle of the whole fish keep the head and the tail on for luck a whole chicken again. The the wholeness of bringing the family together at the New Year oranges and Tangerines Sanjay rains. That I've brought you here today. Beautiful Little Little Tangerine there on you WanNa have prosperity also. Yeah the the dumplings you can meet Phil but but also on the Fifteenth Day. You have these these rice flour dumplings with black sesame seed paste inside that you haven't like a warm soup lose a talk a little bit more about the Lunar New Year learn how it's celebrated not just the food part of it but what other celebrations look like. We'll certainly there's always been the long tradition of the big parades. The Lion dance the fireworks it works shows and one of the meeting. Things is that we used to just have the one and even those Lunar New Year. It is really very widely celebrated among the Chinese community. So you'd see these big celebrations in the historic Chinatown area on the south side of Chicago. Now though it's really become incorporated across the city also on argyle which is ethnically Chinese predominantly Vietnamese but then also then you'll see celebrations at the Cultural Center at the art institute and very importantly at be outlet mall out in the suburbs in Rosemont because shopping is also big part of getting together with your family and and then really celebrating a brand new close to well speaking of the Vietnamese community I should say that the Chinese are the only people who celebrate the Lunar New Year Korean Americans tunes vietnamese-americans and the enemies will eat bon tet. which is a Like a rice cake with stuff inside and the Korean Americans will eat to cook. DOC which are these sort of rice cejka coins that are in a soup and you always get together with family. You Kowtow to your elders to show them respect and they often often will hand you a little money if people maybe haven't celebrated before and want to get a taste of some of the tradition. Where do you suggest they go around town now? I say. Check out the Chinatown Museum. They actually have a celebration that includes a some lessons and some treats and I think the tickets are available at a discounted price Ahead of time and so definitely check that out. There's actually an annual dumpling making class and Hinky restaurant in the China Town Square Mall. It's a restaurant it's been around for regional southern style Chinese food and They also do excellent soup dumplings The they do and actually that is Also different kind of dumpling. Not They won't be doing those kinds of things a little more challenging but yes so there's terrific lessons that can be learned and through food not only at restaurants but some of the museums to right here on Navy pier on Saturday there's going to be a big Lunar New Year celebration right in the festival hall at the end of the pier. Well I want to turn a little bit back to the Chinese food scene here in Chicago and just here. You know how it's changed over the decades Okay Tobacco Company. I well back about one hundred and twenty hundred fifty years ago. It was largely Chinese food for Chinese people just in the on on clubs but then when they decided to start making restaurants for the the the non-chinese it was you know Chop Suey and chalmers. I'm actually doing a story for curious. City looking at a what food was like in the loop at the turn of the century. Were there specific challenges people face in trying to open been the Oakland there were huge challenges simply even getting employees because of the Chinese exclusion act. which only allowed merchants diplomats and students into the country? They had a really hard time getting anyone To be able to work here but once they opened up that category of merchants to include restaurateurs. Suddenly everybody was like guess what. I'm arrested a tour and I've got a really nice restaurants Lisa. These beautiful restaurants like King Joy low opening up at the turn of the century with sort of like ivory inlaid tables and three stories on ad. So that that food was very very simple Chop Suey. Cho- main maybe a boil chicken but in the sixties. When you saw a real opening up of Chinese immigration you saw different regional fair? You saw a horn unease food some Szechuan on food and then when there were a greater opening up in the eighties you started seeing more regional. Food and Lewis has really been covering like even the the greater expanse of regional food talk about that Louisa and so now what you're seeing is an influx of regional Chinese food. That is really geared more for Chinese diners. In fact I just had a story in the Tribune online yesterday in print today about how the oldest restaurant in Chinatown Juan cow which closed a couple of years ago go is L. Capone's to go there. They say right. He supposedly had preferred tabled overlooked. What North Avenue Him and his henchmen but now restaurant restaurant tour and chef? Tony who who's best known for the Laos Schwann restaurants is opening a high and hot pot. Restaurant called Shaolin Gone and indeed that restaurants supposedly has eight hundred locations primarily in China across the world and aggressively expanding in the United States. Starting this year and that restaurant is really geared for Chinese diners. Let's go back to the phones. We've got Han from North Center on. What's on your mind high? I just wanted to let you guys know that my mom used to make a dish called Gye. I think it's also referred to as blue light. It's dish includes a lot of dried ingredients like Dried Oysters beancurd sticks. My mom would include the glass noodles and yeah sometimes she would include the black mushrooms. The Dry cloud mushrooms so a lot of ingredients go into that dish and also miss Braves duck very similar to to to to Duck Orion. Thanks for that call. We were just talking about so gyro tie toy specifically means means like vegetarian or Vegan. It is a specific kind of category of cuisine and actually one of the most popular ingredients in those dishes. We were just discussing earlier. Players fought toy which looks like black hair quite frankly and it is a moss. I believe and it's actually now banned for sale officially in China because of the environmental damage does from the harvesting and One of my food writer friends in Toronto just wrote a story saying that he could still find. It actually are in the Greater Toronto area. I haven't looked forward in Chicago But you can certainly find things that are called Black Moss which are similar. We're not the same but it's a great example of the homonym. That are all a part of Chinese culture and so It sounds like at Sei fat choy which means make a lot of money and so you wanna eat something. That sounds like a lot of money. Let's go back to the phones. You've got Allen from edgewater Allen what's on your mind hi I'm originally from Singapore and then so one of the traditions that my family and I did growing up as a child who is to Enjoy doing something called Ye song or I think in Cantonese is low hypo which is called the propsperity tossed salad which is a medley of like pickled sugared candied vegetables typically raw outstanding or or other type of whitefish And then some like fried One time skin rappers and then you toss it all together with your family family and friends at the table. How're you toss it more for thirty years the New Year so Monica that Monica? It looks like that's unfamiliar to you. But Louisa Yeah so it's funny actually. There is a new restaurant called fat fat P. H. A. T. P. H.. At Open in Schaumburg by the owners. Imperial Alon here in Chicago that had great video of that on their social media pages. And it's hilarious. Actually so it's basically you've got a big platter salad and everybody's got chopsticks and you kind of get in there you tossing. You talked to a lot of it ends up all over the table. But it's huge fun and I think they have a special deal on there right now for just the holiday but but you can find certain dishes like bat only available during the next couple of weeks so do check around. Maybe Monica I can toss toss and tosses look good. Thanks so much for that call. So how were the two of you going to spend the Lunar New Year celebrations any particular activities. You have planned. Monica Monica will. You're supposed to pay off all your debts. Clean Your House By midnight and then at midnight open up your windows to let all the bad stuff out and let the good year. So I'll be doing some of that. What about you Lisa eating? I'm going to be getting takeout and lots of it especially dumplings and bringing it over and celebrating with my mom and Dad who are Eighty five years old so lucky to be celebrating with them another Lunar New Year the wrath this year are there particular celebrations that seem to be specific to Chicago. I think that really now. It's really that the Chicago institutions that are outside of Chinatown of really embraced. It so you know. I think that seeing cultural landmarks like the cultural center observing Chinese New Year like Navy pier is kind of puts a unique setting twist on it. While since I have you here I have to ask ask about your next food. Adventure anything on the horizon. So I'm checking out a series of new restaurants that are opening here in Chicago. Here's what's interesting now. A trend coming up Chinese American restaurants that are being opened by non Chinese people as well as Chinese people who have been raised here and so that's becoming now a huge trend so I'm going to be Scoping those out for some stories. Maybe reviews the tribune coming up soon. Monica Culinary News. You're keeping your eye on. I'm knee deep. In twenty turn of the century Chicago restaurants Lamb's tongue pickled herring turtle soup and And and celery as a as a prestigious dish and itself celery. Yeah yeah almost as much shrimp cocktail and it was something that if you you wanNA eating high end you would have that as your as your appetizer. Okay well you'll both have to come back and tell us what you find that the WBZ reporter. MONICA INC in Chicago Tribune Food and dining reporter order louise at you Monica. Louise thanks for speaking with us. Thank you thank you jen. And that's your Sunday reset if we make you hungry out to any number of a Lunar New Year celebrations happening today and for the next several weeks in and around Chicago. I'm Jen White. Thanks for listening. Have a great rest of your weekend. And let's talk against him.

Chicago Monica Monica Chinese American Restaurant Dy Enright Louisa Jen White JEN JEN Navy pier United States China Monica ing Fat Choy Chinatown Lisa Ho Sai Guy Restaurant Louisa Chew Tribune Cultural Center Louisa Yeah America
Suburbia Gets Surreal In 'Greener Grass'

The Frame

26:10 min | 10 months ago

Suburbia Gets Surreal In 'Greener Grass'

"Henze rebel Wilson Stephen Merchant and Alfie Allen now playing in select feeders from the broadcast center at KPCC podcasting supported by Fox searchlight presenting Joe Joe Rabbit an antiwar satire directed by TYCO. YTD starring Scarlett Johansson Sam Rockwell Thomas in me freewheeling larger than life handsome Debonair producer and then studio executive and booth with one of the last carbon arc projectors in Hollywood and he gives me as a souvenir a carbon arc lamp rod you know they're spent rod himself is considered essential for anyone interested in how Hollywood works and Thomson and editor at large at indy wire join me to reminisce about area and Evans looks me up and down that's what he's like he's from that period I'm a woman he's checking me out and then a Hollywood legend Robert Evans he was a man of the period I think is really important to remember it's the sixties he exemplified a kind of but more than anything else perhaps he was a show business magician able not only to reinvent himself multiple times but also escape from any Mackenzie rebel Wilson Stephen Merchant and Alfie Allen now playing in select feeders Robert Evans was an actor producer and a studio chief Donald and professional predicaments Evans died on Saturday at the age of eighty nine his memoir that kids stays in the picture and the audiobook which voice podcasting supported by Fox searchlight presenting Joe Joe Rabbit an anti war satire directed by title White T T and starring Scarlett Johansson Sam Rockwell Thomasson Grass takes on hyper politeness in American suburbia and the adult characters have one thing in common they all have braces on their teeth in the WHO not only made movies but lived the life and I I don't know did you ever go to his house John was not among the many but apparently it was of future perfect and Raphael Sadique deconstructs his music on a new episode of Song Exploiter all that coming up on the frame pick you had a chance to tour it I did and and first of all I'm I'm a young woman I'm working at the La weekly or something and I show up and this up to the symbolism of the braces because braces are such a mess when they're on your face there so painful yet they've project the promise you go into the screening room and he gives these parties and that's where Jack sits that's where you know and then in the back there's a projection the picture and we should know the title comes from the casting of Robert Evans as a bullfighter in the sun also rises Ernest Hemingway would have nothing of it and and by the way if you talk to other people have been there he did it to everybody and he worked the town relentlessly for years. I WANNA play a clip from the documentary the kid stays in but Daryl Zanuck the legendary studio executives said the kid stays in the picture here's a clip from the documentary about Robert Evans mildly is in Beverly Hills right in the middle of of all those mansions and everything big kidney shaped pool but you go to this back through the house it's very cheesy and then you go to this back a great deal of skepticism people in the industry after all when's the next actor and that running deal on the day it's I mean he had done a couple of pictures over at Fox and he what he did was befriend Charles Blue Dohrn who's the head of paramount and he got Rosemary's Baby Romeo and Juliet Goodbye Columbus starring his third wife Allie McGraw who famously left him for Steve McQueen during the getaway he's a salesman somebody who had sold clothing at Evan picone you know that that and he understood that he had a storytelling if that's what you love story starring Ali McGraw and of course most famously the Godfather series and fights with Coppola were legendary bride the rumor mill packing my bag time magazine ran a story saying my firing was imminent friends Collina's agents lawyers all of them let me know that I wasn't in here in that clip and he he had bad movies he did paint your wagon and catch twenty two and and the great gas but the good movies really scored as you know he also had a taste for good writing I'm GonNa play a clip from China town directed by Rohan Plan Sqi but written by Robert town this is a scene so had a drug problem and part of his plea bargain essentially was he was forced to make some public service announcements about drugging Sir no it's an era that seems so foreign today because movie studios today are all about franchises and brands and obviously it was the tradition he was married seven times he was implicated but never charged in what is called the cotton club murders any use any ended up doing this really painful musical performance called get high on yourself are like anymore I would argue that a movie like Ford v Ferrari in this season or the Irishman these movies that are carrying on that grand seventy between Jack Nicholson and Faye dunaway. I don't know what you were talking about this is the craziest the most insane I'm GonNa make it easy for you singer he really understood a good story and these were adult dramas that appealed to I have to say people like you and me I love those movies and and you're right we don't see that different time but Robert Evans I think as producer and studio executive really gravitated towards storyteller is like William Goldman Robert Towne Roman Polanski Johnson liberties in this music video but it does feel like Robert Evans was able to survive and reinvent himself on multiple occasions he did entity difficult so why was he an unusual hire to run paramount and what did he do once he got in there really really had no experience always coming up the suburbs gets we got to have an office at paramount they kept him on for years and years he lived another third fourth life if you like and when he was in bankruptcy after he the COPA has come up with a new version of the cotton club which was vastly improved I highly recommend that people see it but in the book you hear about the fate things that he was because he was on drugs people didn't trust him necessarily Coppola wasn't listening to him and Evans had a lot of smart ideas about how to fix that they play soccer moms and a pastel colored town where everyone drives golf carts and the adults all wear dental braces darcy carton of the good place jealous you had a fight he fell he hit his head it was an accident but his girl is a witnessed so you had to shut her up you don't have the guts to Harvard you got the money to keep our mouths shut surreal and the new movie re `grats American suburbia as a setting and as a state of mind has inspired countless I've been In all this trouble with cocaine and the drug conviction and he was famously fighting with Coppola throughout which is really interesting about that is eh and Thomson is editor at large at indy wire she's also the founder of the blog Thompson on Hollywood and thanks so much for coming on the show pleasure John Send Beck Bennett of Saturday night live also make appearances is Jocelyn how she and dawn pitch their unusual idea to movie executives I guess there was something in TV shows but none quite like greener grass it's a comedy starring Comedians Jocelyn deboer Don Lubi who also wrote and directed the movie got a satire of American suburbia kind of a surreal world. I didn't even notice you have a new baby is rooted in something very real which is how often people make real life decisions based on what they think will make other people happy what they think other people's expectations of them are for us we painstakingly broke down what we were commenting on it seems absurd and it is kind of I dunno wacky that my character gives away her baby in the beginning of the movie but that scene people behave and what they say and what they do and when you have a background that is improvisational where people are you know riffing you have to make sure isn't she cute we wanted to try something now she's so cute I love her. There's this series of unusual events that unfold in it was so important to us that are actors played it so grounded and real word that framework for the film works for the actors that are working in it yes tone was everything to us for this movie because as Jocelyn mentioned art take her she's yours now they trade baby way some people might trade books or a sweater I wanna ask you about the origins of this story because it seems to have gone through like sketch short film and how did you get to this place where it became a feature yeah well I I mean I love that eggs stakes one of my favorite examples is a win Mary Holland who plays in the movie who's one of the kind of women in this world you you're starting with that baby example because I I think it it's a great example of where the layers come in the film and that of course what we're interested in satirizing what was funny to US deeper grounded level because it feels like you are very intentional about the rules for the way how on the floor and that line Mary improvised in the moment but it's so exactly right for the tone of the movie dress the way houses are decorated Oh yes I love both comparisons that you made and it is something we talked about very early on both the features and we wanted to make sure that when our friends discovered this little short film swell scrolling through facebook or whatever they would are no cars that appear in the movie it's only golf carts we wanted to create this world that right away you knew was unique and at what point did Truman show and Pleasantville these movies where you're dropped into this idyllic perfect you know so to speak world and we're like what if our movie you aside that braces was going to be your Leitmotif for this film this was something that was part of greener grass from the time it was a short film back in we pitched braces and immediately loved the symbolism of the braces because braces are such a mess when they're on your face there's dog now you the child turning into the dog we were really exploring is something quite serious which is Jill comes over the protagonist with the TACO dip and says oh I brought you a Taco deb seven layer luck for this film and I thought about a cross between the set design for Truman show and Disney's celebration it's kind of planned city in Florida the way people I'd entity and the children in our world do have a better sense of self than the adults do yet they're like so constantly impounded with the values I shall we say misplaced values of their parents and the world around them and I think that really break out of it it's like it really exists in that world and yet when you see all the adults are wearing braces and oh painful yet they project the promise of future perfection when you were talking with people who are heading departments and you say to them at least do you want her what she's here baby lease on you can have her she's great Sir and because there are these like layered meanings that do connect things in real life we wanted our actors to treat them with there's a kid in this film but at a certain point it's a dog you know we only hired people say you know what I get it he's seven layers gets the table five layers gets the four that's exactly one of the important rules of the world that's also very important is the visual aby being disappointed that the five layer dip is not a seven layer dip people are kind to a fault but I don't know what's actually motivating their behavior what the conversations you had about why people are so non-judgmental man well I mean politeness taken to the extreme was one of the very first ideas with the plan of your there's all sorts of random I know from from the beginning of that something was really unusual and so we pitch all kinds of things like what if they both have bright red hair and freckles than what if what if that and in two thousand fifteen and the original idea for braces came from Don and I were just like we were playing to soccer moms just sitting on the of the movie of Joe Giving her baby away and I think it's really rooted in a place as Jocelyn mentioned where people sometimes are so ask it also feels important of the story that nobody sits in judgment of anybody else that people are so kind that outside

Robert Evans Joe Joe Rabbit Fox searchlight Hollywood Alfie Allen Wilson Stephen Merchant producer Coppola Jack Nicholson editor John executive Scarlett Johansson Thomson Ernest Hemingway Henze La weekly KPCC podcasting Sam Rockwell Thomasson Grass
Chinatown (1974) Ep. 63 w/ special guest Ted Walch

Classic Movie Musts

55:20 min | 1 year ago

Chinatown (1974) Ep. 63 w/ special guest Ted Walch

"I'm max Baril. And this is classic movie musts, where every week, we breakdown, a classic movie well, looking to provide artistic insights and historical context at very least. We'll talk about what makes these movies classics. Classic movie. Must release every Friday ready to complimentary weekend. Movie viewing plans classic movie muss, is supported by the listeners like you, if you want to help support the show, I thank you so much, and second, head on over to patriot dot com slash classic movie musts, every patriot subscriber earns cool perks and ways to engage the show, including the opportunity to vote every month on a movie. They'd like to hear discussed on the show. All it takes is one dollar per month. A huge thank you to our current patriot subscribers you make this show possible. You can read about all our support tears, and the rewards over at patriot dot com slash classic movie. Musts. Thank you for joining me this week as we discuss Roman Polanski's Neo Noir, detective mystery Chinatown in this episode during our feature presentation, we welcome back. Ted wall ch- to break down this most cynical films Noir. But first, let's get into this week's opening credits. Film this week is Chinatown, which was directed by Roman Polanski and was released in nineteen seventy four Chinatown stars, Jack Nicholson, Faye, Dunaway, and John Houston, a woman, denting herself as Evelyn mole Ray hires a private investigator. JJ Geddes play by Jack Nicholson to follow her husband, Hollis, Moray chief engineer of the Los Angeles department of water power get his tales him. Here's him publicly refused to create a new reservoir. That would be unsafe and shoots photographs of him with a young woman, which are published on the front page of the following day's paper back at his office, get is confronted by a woman play by Faye. Dunaway who informs him? She is the real Evelyn mull Ray and that he can expect a lawsuit, realizing he was set up get his assumes that Hollis Maure is the real target before he can question him. Lieutenant lou. Lou bar fishes, drown mole Ray out of a reservoir under retainer from MRs Malraux, get his investigates, his suspicions of murder and notices that, although there is a drought, huge quantities of water are being released from the reservoir every night. Get us learns that mole Ray was once the business partner of his wife's wealthy father. No across play by John Houston over lunch, at his personal club, cross warns Geddes that he does not understand the forces at work and offers to double, get us his fee to search for mores missing mistress at the hall of records, get us discovers that much of the north west valley has recently changed ownership investigating the valley. He is attacked by angry landowners, who believe he is an agent of the water department attempting to force them out by sabotaging their water supply gets deduces that the water department is drying up the land. So. It can be bought at a reduced price and that mole rate was murdered. When he discovered the plan after fleeing thugs hired by the water department after investigating the identities of the new landowners, get us Evelyn hide at Evelyn's house and sleep together during the night, Evelyn gets a phone call and must leave. Suddenly, she warns that her father is a dangerous man. Get his follows Evelyn's car to a house where he spies hurt through the window comforting mores mistress, Catherine. He accuses Evelyn of holding the woman against her will. But she says Katherine is her sister the next day, an anonymous call draws Geddes to Ida sessions apartment, the woman who played the deceitful Evelyn Maure that set him up in the beginning where he finds her murdered and Escobar waiting forget us or rival Escobar tells him the coroner's report found saltwater in mole raise lungs indicating that he did not drown in the fresh water of the reservoir. Escobar suspects Evelyn of the murder, and tells get is to produce her quickly back at Evelyn's mansion. Get his her servants packing, her things, he realizes her garden pod is salt water and discovers a pair of bifocals in it. He confronts Evelyn about Catherine whom Evelyn now claims is her daughter after get slaps her. She tells him that Catherine is her sister, and her daughter, her father raped, her when she was fifteen. She says that the glasses are not mall, raise, as he did not wear bifocals, get his arranges for the women to flee to Mexico and instructs Evelyn to meet him at her Butler's home in Chinatown. He summons cross to the mall, raise home to settle their deal. Cross admits his intention to annex the north west valley into the city of Los Angeles than irrigate and develop it gets accuses cross of murdering Morais cross than has his bodyguard, take the bifocals gun point and they force game. His to drive them to the women when they reached the Chinatown address the police are already there, and detain Geddes when cross approaches Catherine Evelyn shoots him in the arm and starts to drive away with Katherine, the police opened fire killing Evelyn cross clutches Katherine and leads her away while Escobar orders. Get released Lawrence Walsh. One of his associates tells him, forget, it Jake, it's Chinatown Chinatown had a budget of six million dollars. And brought in over twenty nine million at the box office adjusted for inflation. That's a budget of roughly thirty one million and a box office, hall of nearly one hundred and fifty million Chinatown was nominated for eleven Academy Awards, winning one it won the award for best original screenplay for Robert town. The film was also nominated for best music score. Best sound best cinematography best costume design best art direction. Best film, editing best actress for Faye Dunaway after. For Jack Nicholson, best director for Roman Polanski and best picture now. Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown and it's time for our feature presentation. Joining us for today's feature presentation. It's everyone's favorite co host. Ted Walsh back in the studio. Ted. How you doing today? Very well next. How are you? I I'm barred it on a daily basis. It feels like with emails saying bring back, Ted bring back. Ted. You know, of course. Absolutely, thank you. It's pretty sure it's all from you, but it's. I'm not that clever. Not not setting-up. Dummy, Email addresses to, to harass do it. Okay. Well, we're talking about one of my very favorite movies today Chinatown, and I think the it was you who introduced this movie to me back when I took your class in high school, but a few many moons ago and, and I was just asking you still teach this film, right? Do not only do I still teach at it is hands down in the top two or three films that I teach with my kids, and they're all high school seniors. So eighteen year olds love. Chinatown. Put that on the on the, the Blu Ray box, eighteen year olds, love Chinatown. So I'm curious. I have obviously a slew of thoughts on this film. But I'm curious where do you. How do you start teaching it? What's the conversation that leads into this film? I have found over the years that the best way for me. And I think for my students to experience Chinatown is to first experience one or perhaps, more classic film or. And in my course, I use double indemnity as the gateway drug to Chinatown. And so they see they see Chinatown shortly after they've seen double indemnity. And after they've studied some of the tropes, that we associate with Phil nor and since Polanski is having so much fun with, with those tropes, and, and counting on our knowledge of them, and our expectations that are built into film war to, to play with us and to take on a magnificent adventure. I find that's the best way to do it. And then I have another strange gateway drug, which I just tell them about. I don't actually teach them the work, and that is at the king by Sophocles IS. Because in that case we have a detective and. And the detective is at a at a position trying to find out the answer to a certain question. And he finds out at the end that it is. In fact, he himself, who is the culprit and in one way, that is what Jake finds out in Chinatown that he is responsible for all that happens. Maybe I'm a poor student, but I don't remember you teaching that aspect of it. When I took your class. I didn't. So did this did this guy? Right. This recently. I mean is that maybe it's just added to the curriculum? No. But I now teach a philosophy class in which use Oedipus. So I'm able to allude to that. And some of my students crossover between the two classes out very. Okay. Very good. I'm glad you brought up the classical are obviously, I think listeners of this show would expect a conversation about that, right? I mean, this is such a film, so keenly aware of its classical roots, and I have a little bit of a theory, or a thesis, I guess, that I'm hoping to kind of trace through this episode that I hope you will join me on, but I love hit on me max, you know, this movie made in nineteen seventy four nineteen seventy three and nineteen seventy four saw rise to two of my favorite films, nor the long by and Chinatown. Now, we've already talked about the long by on this very show. But what I love about those two movies is they are so keenly aware of the conventions of war that you just rightly mentioned. And they approach it in such different ways. And I find it so fascinating the longer by I talked about on the episode is a film that depends entirely on the assumption that we know the film, the war, and the detective mystery so well, that we can see how all of these films are so vastly similar and Chinatown assumes that different approach, which is that we are the connoisseurs of film war, who can appreciate its minor differences. Got it. I think that's works. Well, that's not even the thesis Ted I'm still setting the stage. Okay. What's the faces? The thesis Ted is about the takeaway of this film, obviously, is that things are Chinatown is even more cynical than than, than the films, it's inspired on things. Obviously, don't end well even slightly and JJ Geddes is a little bit more naive. We've and impotent in the way in the scheme of things. And I think it's often the conversation around that is often surrounded saying, this is the nineteen seventies. And clearly this is, you know, we're getting more cynical, and we're making we're subverting those expectations by making it even more dour my thought is that Roman Polanski in fact, by setting this film, in the nineteen thirties is trying to make JJ Guinness the earlier version of the Sam spades, the Marlo 's and in fact, it's those men in the nineteen forties who were a little bit more naive and impotent in the nineteen thirties. And it's in fact, there altercations with men, like no across, which made them far more biting in their words far. More a little bit more of an anti hero and a little bit more able to see the big picture in a way that JJ is not. Able to do this is a film that is meant to proceed, these movies and show us how the nineteen forties private. I became who he was well to quote a phrase and by your students, she'll be taught. You just taught me something. I like that is probably for the second year film study. However, because you need a little more. You need a little more film, in your basket before you can come to those conclusions. But that's a good one. I like that. So I'm hoping we can as we go through this movie, we can kind of get into it, and I think where to start, but the beginning, we've talked about that one before. I think about the beginning of this movie, and I'm always struck by JJ Geddes being kind of in contrast to I always think of Sam Spade Humphrey Bogart in the Maltese falcon. I mean you can just assume that's who I'm picturing this entire time. Let's forget, who directed the Maltese falcon. Well, of course, John, Houston. Of course, our villain of no across what, what an ex just perfect casting that was. But the beginning of this movie, I love how he's trying to convince who he thinks is Evelyn mole. Ray not to pursue it. Right. He's not trying to glean more money out of her. He's saying, you know what if you wanna stay happy, you want your marriage to work out just and this is his business. Just leave. He's also a very dapper guy classically dressed drinks. Good. Bourbon. He's, he's got pictures of movie stars who presumably or his clients on his wall. I want to go back one step to the very, very beginning after the credits. Okay. The very first thing we see, on, on the screen after the credits is black and white, we think for just a second my students. In fact, immediately go Walsh. None another black and white movie. I've thought as in color the credits were in color. So we are meant briefly to think we're in a black and white film Noir. We see the pictures of curly's wife having her affair in the woods, then the pictures are thrown aside, as though to say, you know what we're gonna take classic film Noir, in a way and we're going to throw it away. And then the first line of the film when curly's face is pressed into the Venetian blinds is Jake says you can't eat the Venetian blinds. Meaning because of. A nation. Blinds are probably the single decorative feature most associated with film, or if he's saying, well, you know, what we can throw away film war, but we can't eat the Venetian blinds. We gotta have some film or here, even though it's in color. Right. It's awesome. Anyway. So I like that point very much and I hadn't really thought about the Venetian blinds line. But yes, you're so right. Venetian blinds are the quintessential kind of lighting. Accoutrements in film Noir. And as he points out that they were just installed pointing back to my point that this is this is the detective, you know, he's getting to become the film, the detective, you know, he just had his blinds installed. Right. But and you're a great point, very dapperly-dressed, pulling on a little bit of I think maybe some western tropes. He's there and his all white suits compared to forties Noir. Detectives who are typically in their black pinstripes. Right. I think he thinks of himself as a good guy. I mean the scene in the barbershop tells us as much that there's a certain self-consciousness or. Self consciousness about being about the profession. He takes and how people view him, but I we see from the very beginning. He makes it very clear to his clients that this isn't going to end unhappiness for you. But if you're prepared to go through with it, then I will do it, but I'm going to try and convince you otherwise and I think that's a very noble thing to do. And we think about his nobility throughout this film. Once he gets meets every level in mole Ray, and she threatens him with a lawsuit, and he goes to kind of convince her otherwise, he does convince her otherwise, she says, fine. I'll drop the lawsuit, he's like no, I want to keep pursuing this I need to know who is setting me up. And that's where I bring in the Oedipus connection because every at every point in Oedipus, the king where Oedipus has reason to stop the investigation. Compelling reason, actually, to stop the investigation. He chooses doggedly to. Continue. And when when, when we when we understand that the last time, Jake was in Chinatown he did as little as possible. We understand that he ends up with the same horrible result when he tried to do as much as possible you can't win either way. Very nice. Yeah. You're, you're so. Right. And it's one of those things that again, draws me back to thinking about these other detectives where in if the flip of the nineteen forties version of it. You know, we're so accustomed to seeing someone like Sam Spade advocate for more money, and he's going to, you know, you're gonna pay me this, and I'll do that. And you know, he's a sensually offering to do it for free. I need to know what. And people just keep throwing more money at JJ. Get says it's generous. But that's not what that's not what this is about, right? Exactly. And is not what this is about again. When across hires JJ, I'll double. A your fee and I'll pay twice as much. And he's, it's so beside the point to him of just trying to figure this mystery out, and hopefully do the right thing in the process after all we learned, he was a police officer. Right. He has that in his core, which is to do the right thing to save people. And there is, as we see throughout this foam naievety that comes with that. And he's consistently put on that. And he's very clever about some things for instance toward the end of the film when he's navigating, if you will the escape for Evelyn and, and all of that, he's, he's very clever that kind of thing, but he misses the big picture. He misses just like Oedipus does information that's right there in front of him, but he doesn't see it nor by the way, do we? And that's the beauty of this film, you know. And I'm sure you're no this that there. We only find out information this film when Jake finds it out, except for one, delicious moment. And that's when Jake is telling the horrible joke about the chinaman, and we know that the real Evelyn mole Ray is behind a woman. We haven't yet met. Let me put it that way. But this is the one time in the movie when we know something he doesn't know but of course, it has to do with Chinatown. That's, that's it. Whenever Jake, it's near anything that has anything to do with Chinatown. He can't figure it out correctly, he lose. He misses the clue bad for glass. He misses the clue and there it is in front of him. Yeah. Misspoken. And all right. You're so right. And it's one of one of those fantastic, details of this movie of which the detail is so perfectly executed throughout, yes. The script of this movie is perfection. This is arguably one of the greatest film scripts ever written some people think it is the greatest film script ever written. We give a lot of credit to Polanski, but we really need to say towns, film, script is it. Yes, you're so. Right. And but the way it is realized especially at this point in more in a period setting. It's so beautifully realized, but I love the detail of again thinking back on our detective and the kind of the tropes of the detective the metaphors, if you will that surround the detective. And you say his inability to really see the picture when it surrounds Chinatown. And to me, it's the two fantastic kind of little metaphors of this film, which is one him getting his nose slit. And of course, if you don't know the little man who slits his nose is, in fact, Roman Polanski. He says it directly which is that, you know, you're sticking your nose and things that you shouldn't, and so you're going to lose your nose. But it's again, the idea that the detective Sam Spade in Maltese falcon is so able to sniff out the plot. He's able he has that sixth sense if you will, I love that detect things and here. No, we're going to take that metaphor away from this detective you're going to lose your nose. You're going to lose that ability kind of sniff out the plot around you. Right. And if you want to add one other thing, too, that you're also gonna lose your shoe and your gun shoe and this damn floor shine. I hadn't even thought about that. I'm going there, and I got a play film nerd for just one. That's what we do convince Polanski is paying more than little. Oh my gosh. To the great surrealist film, Shan, and the Lou in which the director in that film. Slices, the eyeball here we have the director slicing the nose. So that's, that's, that's my film. Nerd thing, I don't think how could you not think that when you when you have a director, so keenly aware of kind of films roots? And it's, it's, it's beginnings. It's classical strand. And if you want to go further with that the point, an Shannon and the Lou is you need to learn to look in new ways. That's why I'm slicing your eyeball. And I'm going to slice your nose because you're not sniffing this out in the right way. But but, but yeah, no, you're absolutely right. And so early. I mean fairly early on. He loses the nose loses that sensory input and then throughout the film, it's consistently about not being able to see the big picture or having these flaws in your site. I mean you talk about. The fact that we don't learn things until Jane Geddes, learns them, which I love, I love when films do that. I don't like mysteries where? By there. I have information the characters don't or the characters have information than I don't got forbid. But I love learning as you go along. And as you talk about in the scene, where with the with the China joke is, in fact, looking the wrong way. I mean he can't really cannot see what's creeping up behind him, which is the whole movie, and he refuses to pay attention to his assistance, who are trying to get him to shut up, and he won't. Yeah. And it's which is in many ways, mirrored later on in his confrontation with no across and his inability to see MOVA hill. Sneak up right behind him in a situation where you would think someone's going to sneak up on you just completely gets caught up in the narrative, and forgets what he's actually there to do. But then throughout the film, right? I mean we have. In the scene at the orange grove. And when he gets beat up his, his sunglasses gets shattered. So again, you know, Mogae again to breathless John, the Dar's film, because it seems that you can't get through many movies without having one lens of sunglass apparent sunglasses broken out, just because it's too Dard to poetic. Yeah, you have to do it anyway. Sorry. No, no, no. It's, it's too he got into it. So but we have all of these broken lenses and these these films. So concerned with site, I mean, I love the cinematography in this film, and how often or kind of right behind JJ. Get us a shoulder really seeing things as he sees them. But have you noticed in that regard? I haven't studied this fully at I, but I need to okay. It seems that the depth of field in most of the shots leading up to the end of the movie is less. Deep than you would expect it seems that as JJ isn't getting things. There's also not the depth of field in which to get them until we get to that incredibly dark deep shot at the end of the film, when we see all of Chinatown in it's murky splendor say, that's just a guess, on my part. I haven't studied it. I'm read that, but think on it. It's an interesting. That's an interesting point. And I think I mean you might very well be right about that which would be estimating and adding even more to the just the to liberate this about this film for sure is how meticulously that's the word for it is prepared every way the writings, meticulous the direction is meticulous. Cinematography the music is beyond sumptuous and wonderful with all its as the attic, overtones. It's, it's a it's a thing of. It's a thing of beauty. I think it's one of the greatest films ever made them just going to say it. It is it is certainly considered as such I would agree with it. Anyway, my point being on the sensory, though, this that, again, we're consistently losing the site. I love, you know, they're studying each other's faces, and he notices the flaw in her iris. We have these broking quite literally, the key piece of evidence is a broken pair of bifocals. It's again all coming back to not being able to see things correctly. And I think of again we can't we can't sniff out. We can't see it. We rear our senses. Failing exactly you're and again, I think of this film, which has a, a fairly convoluted conspiracy mystery and it's at four. And I think of something like multi falcon, which has a beyond mysterious Evan figured still don't even know what's going on in the multi falcon. Right. But Sam Spade sees it all somehow. Right. And JJ Guinness is always a step behind just when he sees the biggest conspiracy. He finds a gun in his ear, and he can't actually see what's right behind him. Right. So either you see the big picture, and you miss what's right behind you or you or you see what's right around you and your missing the big picture entirely. And that's I think what, you know, subverts our expectation surrounding this detective mystery so nicely. And again, I. To go back to Oedipus, the king, you perfectly described that the king investigates exactly the same way JJ does he can't see what's right in front of his face nor, and I have to add Ken, we so the difference between Oedipus it, everybody who saw it in the Greek times, new what was happening. We don't. In fact, I think it really takes to viewings to, to start to unravel all the mystery that's in China. And then also to appreciate some of the, the jokes if you will or tricks that are being played on us, for example, as curly as exiting the office, right at the beginning of the film. He says the word albacore. He says a can't catch any skipjack or albacore tuna. Well, now the second time through we get the delight. Oh, guess what? There's a little clothe there. I missed it. When we go to what's his name's office. The deputy director. Jappie director. We see the albacore symbol on the wall. But we don't know what it means. Yet. Right. And then this joke about apple corps albacore that keeps coming up. We again we get so close. And then we are we are misdirected. It's, it's brilliant, because we're being played with the same way that Jake is being played with in the story yet. What's gorgeous about this film is none of it plays unfair, all of the answers are there. If you go back through everything that you thought was confusing, you or deliberately misleading. You know you just didn't see it. Yeah. Neither Jake right? You're so right. But at the same time, again, I think of the long goodbye and JJ is not. He's not pro-trade in such a way that we feel like this man is totally out of his league or an idiot by any means right? The contrary. He's we get enough of those moments to say to really think he might be our new Sam Spade of who can who can really do anything. I mean, he, he certainly has a quick wit. He has a great number of any else has awesome vocabulary. Like when he says, it's my ta. He loves the big word and he's got a classy office is clearly doing well he's doing well for himself. He he has slick little moments. Right. I love the stealing of the business cards, just and then that's how it gets into his stealing of the hall of records with a cough and a ruler. I have you noticed by the way, speaking of the hall of records that all when I call the gatekeepers in this film are snarky and difficult and sometimes they are, they are Asian of to pick up on the China town, right metaphor. But they're always in his way they're always either mysterious or sneaky or snarky like that horrible kid in the records office. This is not a lending library, or the secretary in the assistance. Why can't we remember his name? We can't, but that's beside the point. Yeah, I mean, the assistant to both Moray the deceased Ray and I can't remember either. But I feel like it's also with an. But again, if you go back through Phil nor snarky gatekeepers are the operative trope in double indemnity, the housekeeper. Is immediately protecting the house. She snarky, she's she's difficult. So again, as planned ski having fun with it, but then raising the stakes beautifully by really doing something that not just having them be in the way, but really being in the way. Right. They are. Yes, you're quite right. And it also I'm just thinking through. Now, again, the number of times where JJ does get his inability to see three hundred sixty degrees. Right. It's not only with both Evelyn Maure and the no across I think of the scenes when he is following Khawla, small Ray and almost gets washed away by the by the runoff. And then again when he sneaks into the water again, we're giving these clues throughout out of the water almost sweeping him away, not on one but two different occasions. Well, and water everywhere in this movie if you if you look at the walls of his. Office. The calendar is from a plumbing company and, and there's a picture on the wall that clearly is of canal. So whatever they this is what I mean about meticulous. They don't miss a trick. They really decorate this extremely well with, with, with clues again. But we we miss them. We do we do indeed. You mentioned the music. Yes. And I'm curious how you view the music because rewatching it. I can't help. But think that this is nine hundred seventy four or six years, thereabouts out of Rosemary's, baby. Okay. Another film, we've talked about on this show, but to me much, especially in the second half of this movie. This is the music of a horror, Phil. I agree the scene when he goes into Ida sessions apartment. It's downright a horror film. I mean you know, in the cords punctuated, by the drip, drip. A water faucet. Yes. But it's such an interesting kind of combination of film the war, but it starts out, and it does have an excellent throughout the whole film. It's haunting but it gets scary towards the as this film does get scary. And I think taking it further than other the music we associate with Nawar. Adds even that extra weight of like this. This is film that we usually soc eight music. We usually associate with Nawar is fairly for lack of a better word monochromatic. It does one thing, and it pretty much sticks with it throughout the film, double indemnity. No, this one starts out with that sumptuous beautiful score that Jerry Goldsmith wrote that goes onto the credits. But then it turns in pulls in the, the eastern influences and plays with those, and then as, as you so correctly point out as the stakes get higher and higher. We then hear the music, getting more dangerous and more a horror film. Yeah. I can go with that before I forget it. I want to go back to one thing you were talking about when he when he's early on in his investigation here again. He and I, meaning I the viewer miss clues in an. Extraordinary way when he is on the rooftop looking down at Hollis and the person he assumes to be his lover, who we later. Find out is effectively, his surrogate daughter, right. The whole scene is shot in a way that you can look at it as a man and his lover. But then when you revisit at the second time through, you realize, of course, is system, man and his surrogate daughter, whom he loves you're so. Right. And we get that shot of the two of them in the lens of the camera. Again, your point about lenses things that we see with and how much happens to them anyway, I didn't want to lose that point. No. I I mean and both in the scene it at the on the pond and their rowboats, right? It's totally a father and a daughter. Right. But we didn't think you go in assuming you're looking for an affair. And sure you see an fair. Right. But the ability to. Play both sides, genuinely as you say it plants doing fairly. Yes, exactly. It's got to be fair. It's not fair. Then if the manipulate you feel you're not interested afterwards, but to say, no, I misread the clues here's another clue that happens throughout this film, every time Evelyn gets near the word father. She stutters. It's my father she, she can't just say the word, and even when, when he points out about her, I, she says, it's a flaw, because it's a birthmark, and anything that is associated with her father causes her to, to literally, and if you will figure to stutter, she can't, she can't go there. And if you look at his name, Noah water, please Ross double cross, please. I mean it works. It works. All should we talk about the names. I mean mall, ramo Holland. Yes. I mean that the whole story of water and Los Angeles, which is by the way, in terms of the meticulousness this, and I don't think we should get off because it's endlessly complicated, right? Town. How shall I say digests the story and a different way? He's not being unfair to the history of the story, but he's compacting it. Yes. And, and, and simplifying because it isn't very complicated story. But here's my point. And I hope this, I hope this is something you agree. Los Angeles rapes other places to get its water. And that's kind of incestuous thing. And this film is about incest as rape. I think that's that's well taken. I think that's an excellent point is very much that is the process by which we're saying we're gonna take, by the way, this is hard and ugly stuff. There's some hard and ugly stuff in Chinatown for his immensely entertaining as it is it gets incredibly dark. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean at the end you're my God. And when Noah grabs his daughter, granddaughter and puts his hands over her eyes and mouth as you go. So what's going to happen to Catherine what, what? You just despair. It's again I go to the end of the poor guy is blind. His wife mother is dead. Yeah. What are you left with? Get forget it at its thieves. Forget it Jake. It's chinatown. That's, that's what I say. I think you're, you're saying correctly, you're, I mean, it does get so dark and it does play off that history. So interestingly with, you know, the history of Los Angeles the history of Mulholland, and the history of movies, by the way plan playing with the Maggio's. Did you notice that the, the newspaper rendering that Jake is responsible for the love of fair between Hollis and his girl? Yes, is exactly the same as used in citizen Kane with with the heart and the Susan Alexander and the whole thing. So there's he's just he's, he's honoring his sources very much so very much. So, and we like that we do we fill nerds, like Ulan and again, but again, it comes back to the idea of John row, which is the idea of genre is one of my absolute favorite ways to look at films because you do. It does require you to understand everything that kind of came before. Right. And then to look at whatever the text is you're looking at now in this case Chinatown and say, well, how does it honor? Those things how does it play with them and talking about this film and longer by just shows you how you can do that, so differently? Exactly and come out with such feelings of entirely different results. But to say that these two directors are so keenly aware of everything that came before and crafted their text so meticulously with those things in mind, but to also tell their own story to me, it's endlessly fascinating to pick it apart. And the flip side of that, which, I know you and I agree on completely is if you know, none of that, you still need to be able to enjoy the film. So true. And all it means is that your enjoyment of the film becomes richer, as you go back through. I always say to my students with Chinatown with. Citizen Kane, within a number of other films if it's a great film, it's going to get richer for you. Each time you go back through it. And as you discover more and more about film, but first and foremost, it must entertain on its own terms, free of any other associations and Chinatown. Does absolutely. Yeah. You're so right. Talking about some of these other characters. Of which I'm curious to hear all your thoughts. But again we're talking about the end. It's I mean, it's, it's absolutely terrifying. Atrocious horrible ending anything you want to think about it. I mean the way no across approaches his daughter daughters. But. So I think about it, you know it all. Ously devolves as it does with Evelyn being murdered. And you have Escobar letting JJ us go. I mean really just trying to clear the crime scene of any evidence whatsoever to so that no one gets in trouble for killing a woman, but again, I can't help but shots through the eye with the fall, by the way, of course. Right. Not being able to see what's behind you. Again, it brings me. I can't help it end this film and all the everything that has affected JJ Guinness up until this point, including Escobar. And I think of like, well, yes now this is the JJ Guinness who is just now touching distance for becoming Sam Spade. I mean you see all of these forties films. The hatred that often exists between the private eye and the Lieutenant or whoever the police are is so is such an intense part of the script, and we never we never know why exactly right. We just come to understand that. Well, obviously, these men have interests that conflict and they've come to hate each other each other over the years. Well, no they hate each other because of this. It's this, this were seeing the moment where the private detective comes to hate the Lieutenant, and we'll never trust him again because up until this. In the film. It's an interesting twist, which is that JJ us fairly gets along with Escobar. They, there's a mutual respect of like let's investigate this crime scene together. Obviously they come into conflict, as Moore's that film goes on. But again, this is informs what's going to come in forties. War of that tension we are getting essentially, the prequel story. Why do they hate each other so much? And it's because of this, this is the thing you don't come back from right? And this is, and this is at the end of this film. It's because he couldn't see any everything that was happening around him now that he's able to see and expect the worst from people later and when he finally realizes all that has happened. He mutters almost inaudibly you have to listen very closely to get. He says it for the second time in the film as little as possible, and the irony in that. And when he before, if you'll notice the conversation, let's, let's go back to one of the key conversations after Evelyn and JJ. Have sex. They have a discussion along discussion about what he did before what was his work. Like what was his work like in Chinatown? And he said, well, you know, I did as little as by there was a woman involved. Yes. And, and then the phone rings saved by the bell at exactly the moment where we might find out more about Jake's past, and Chinatown remember, this, we leave this film, never knowing what happened to Jake in Chinatown that so wounded him because he is a wounded guy question about it, even though he hides it in many ways, he is wounded, and there's something very sad. In his past, we never get the answer. And that, that's part of the beauty of that mystery of Chinatown that no matter how you approach. Both the literal and figurative limited space. That is Chinatown. You, you can't you can't figure it out unless you are to the manor born, and we are not. We are not. We are not native to Chinatown as the move. I mean more figuratively than literally. Right. We, we. So of course you do as little as possible there when you go there because you don't know what in the hell you're doing. And, and that. That if we were only better at this, but we're not it's an it's a little bit like in double indemnity when, when, when Walter realizes a little too late what's really going on? But that's another story. We could talk about that later. Yeah. And but it's, it's the dwelling of. Yes, we never know what happened before. But at the same time we get to we know what happened before because it just happened again. Right. And you see it on his face in those closing moments of just like it happened again. And as you so, I love the way you put it earlier, which is that I did as little as possible, and it happened. I did as much as possible and, and it happened. And that's why you just have to forget it. It's chinatown. I need your take on something because I have great discussions students about this, and I've come around to several different ways of thinking about it when. When Jake is JJ is forcing finally forever to tell the truth. And the famous moment that's been satirized so many times in the Simpsons. Elsewhere, it's she's my sister. She's my daughter. She's my sister. She's, and he's, he's really slapping her hard and throwing her around the room, some of the some of my students, why is he getting so brutal with her g you have a take on that? Do you have a way of looking at that, that works for you? So I have a little bit. I don't know what you're telling me, I'll give you my thought new. Tell me how it works. One, I do think it ties back to whatever his mysterious past is and clearly issues of trust and betrayal, and that it's just it's all coming to the surface. This is not just one instance of lying or trying to get to the truth and the added frustration of trying to do the right thing in all of this, and you're still not working with me in that regard. But more importantly, I think so. I think within this narrative that is how I view that, that scene. But again, I think it is, it's Roman Polanski looking back on the past, which is to think of Sam Spade, is I've been doing this entire episode in the multi falcon, and we have that pivotal scene where he slapped. He quite frankly slaps, the truth out of his fem towel. Bridget O'Shaughnessy right? Correct. I think and it's one key slab and it brings the truth to the surface and in nineteen forty one the audience says well that, that worked. And now it's no he's going to slap her endlessly. And she was always telling the truth. And again, it's just that subversion of. No, this is different now. Well, thank you for that, because we agree, and even leaving out the reference, at this point in the investigation if you will Jake has been JJ has been pushed and pulled so many different directions. His frustration is so high he needs the answer. He needs it to be honest and he needs it now and it takes that to get it. And then the punctuation to that scene is when that impeccably cast actor who plays Katherine the daughter. When she has brought down the stairs to meet Jake. And she looked so astonishingly, like fade. It is it is. It's breathtaking and I'm certain the actors probably not even an actor. I don't know. Her story. I'm sure it somewhere, right? Our friend Sam Watson, by the way, who is an Lum of the same class that you took has just finished his book on the making of China town. So we're going to have a lot to read from him. You'll probably listen to this and go okay, guys are wrong about this, this and this. But that's okay. I come on the show Sam, we'll hear the. It's. It. Anyway, you get my point that she is cast solely for her look. And it's perfect. And when he looks at her and realizes that and then practically in the same moment, we get the address of the Butler, and it's in Chinatown, right? So all again, that's the exquisite writing. It's how at all. Dovetails at the same moment. Yeah, I mean his look on his face when he gets the address is very much. It's just it's the beginning of the look that he just endlessly staring into Evelyn's corpse of just like it's happened again. And he knows in her house. It's happening again. As soon as he gets that address. But I think going back to the slap. I mean the in forties Noir in the detective mystery ultimately, the whatever kind of times, unscrupulous actions of the hero, the anti hero, are they? They prove themselves to be justified time and time again because the that person sees it all exam. The fact of the matter is in this scene. I think Roman Polanski is trying to show you in an amplified fashion, I am in no way going to justify the actions of JJ get us. He was getting the truth from the very beginning and he kept slapping her. But that's just because he cannot see at all. Correct. Well put. So I think it is that connection of back. From its roots to now and it's all the more all the more painful to watch because of it. Ted. I mean, I feel like we're part what else anything else except just crosses your mind. Ooh. Just when anybody goes back through the movie start having fun with all the water references. There are so many, they may actually be countless. I mean, look, the radiator boils over in the car. In a barber shop with lots of water. We got plumbing calendars on the wall Ida sessions. Drip, drip, or my favorite moment in the whole film, when JJ and Evelyn are alone together in the bathroom, by the way. Polanski looked for as tight shot. Titus space seek gets because he wanted that ambient sound, and if you listen carefully during that same when he notices the flaw in her, I you hear a drip, drip of water. It's and he takes a shower later. I mean I it she takes shower. Water is everywhere. I, I go to the right of the ancient mariner water everywhere. And that's just and then the Asia attic influences and references. And then probably the most haunting moment about water in this film, really gets me is, when John Houston in one of the creepiest perform. Ince's ever says that Hollas like tide pools. He said they were live. And of course, Hollis died in a tide pool. Right. That was live. I mean that water as life and death and in order for it to be death, though, it seems to be it has to be salt water. And I mean we could go on and on and on with this, because like any great piece of art there. There are things that I'm sure the writers didn't intend, the directors didn't intend, but because they were so scrupulous and everything that they did. There's always more to get out of it than even they thought about this is such a film, this film is damn near perfect. I keep trying to find something wrong with it. But remember, JJ's line one point, he sees something on his windshield. Wipers water again or water. He says it a couple of times moving every got. There's water. Okay. JJ. But you've missed some other clues along the way. Yeah, you're seeing it, but you're not registering. You're not registering. You can't. You can't summarize it any better than that. Ted as always, it's such a pleasure, having you on the show. And likewise, max is great fun that we're going to have to figure out. We're gonna have to throw your curve ball, something not up your alley for our next episode or something I'm game. But as always, it's such a joy talking movies, with you. I know our listeners are feel the same way and I look forward to your return. Thank you, max. That concludes our episode on Chinatown. I would love to hear what you think of this classic movie must feel free to tweet at movie Musk's pod. Or Email classic movie must said, g mail dot com. You can listen to all our episodes. Learn more about the show at classic movie must dot com. Support the show and received cool perks on patriot like becoming a producer of the show and get your name read at the end of every episode just like Don Hoffman Lee Eleanor b and max on redid. Thank you, all for your generous patronage checkout, all or support tears and rewards over at patriot dot com slash classic movie musts on the next episode. We're discussing John carpenter's the thing, remember episodes every Friday on all podcast services. Thank you so much for listening until the next episode keep up with your classics.

Chinatown Jake Catherine Evelyn Roman Polanski Sam Spade Evelyn mole Ray JJ director Jane Geddes China Hollis Maure Ted Ted Walsh Evelyn Maure Escobar Los Angeles Evelyn cross Katherine Academy Awards
The Complicated History Of The Classic Neo-Noir Film 'Chinatown'

On Point with Tom Ashbrook | Podcasts

48:51 min | 6 months ago

The Complicated History Of The Classic Neo-Noir Film 'Chinatown'

"Support for on down the following message come from MIT system design management jointly offered by Mit School of Engineering and the MIT's Sloan School of management. Earn a Master's engineering and management join a virtual info session on Monday February tenth from ten to eleven A. M. S. D. M. I'm dot. Mit Dot Edu from NPR WBZ. Boston I'm David Folkenflik. And this is on point. Chinatown was memorable the final words of the Nineteen seventy-four movie of the same name Chinatown now considered a classic Jack. Nicholson's weary private is noble by his futile quest to untangle the scandal behind the wealth of Los Angeles. The movie was an unlikely success. A Hodgepodge of insight ambition conflict and more born of Titanic. He goes also including Robert Evans Robert Town down and Roman Polanski. No one quite knew why. The pivotal mystery mattered. No one could agree whether Chinatown was a setting or a metaphor chinatown turned out to be a haunting rumination on the enduring during presence of evil. The story of how Chinatown got made offers meditations on fame on meaning loss on moral culpability. Up Next on point. Our Conversation Station with the author Sam Watson on the making of Chinatown for listeners. Who are fans the movie? What sticks with you about it? Why do you think endures? Where at one point radio DOT ORG or on twitter earn facebook and on point radio with me right here in Studio New York? City is Sam Watson. He's a social historian who's written extensively about the figures who have helped to shape Hollywood. His new book is the big goodbye. Chinatown in the last years of Hollywood. You can find an excerpt of the big goodbye on our website on radio dot org same Watson welcomed non-point high. That was so good. Thank thank you well. It's words studio. We agree with everything you've said I'm done with that. This is why invite guests on me. Only F- to affirming Fermi that affirmations aside. Let's talk about this movie. which is a classic? 'cause I've seen a few times. Why this book now about this movie from almost half century ago which is really about a time you know? Eighty years ago in a moment in history in Los Angeles well. It's a simple simple. It's as simple as the moment trump won. I turned to my friend Graham who I was watching it with and after not being able to speak for a few minutes. It's I said to him. What's the movie in other words? What's the precedent for this in American culture? Where can I look to to get some kind of organization to my thinking? That's just how I think because a movie person you know what what's the movie and Chinatown popped into my brain. I mean it was. It was pretty automatic. That this would be the next book that I would right for that that reason. So we're GONNA unpack the movie in a little bit. But why does this movie last. Why are we still talking about it? It was a bit of a risk risk. Yeah it was a brilliant but jumbled mess of a script that here's came in from Robert Town. Yeah why does this moving endure well. It's beautifully made aide on every level. This is this is beautiful production The kind of a big studio film making that. We just don't really have any more or for grownups. I mean we have it for young people which was in the theater every day? So that's one reason but there were a lot of great movies made with this this quality of production. What what I think Chinatown has going forward? Is this metaphor this metaphor for the American nightmare Of as Robert Town described it. The futility of good intentions hasn't been surpassed on film in terms of its darkness Miss that's what lodges insides inside. People's hearts and the metaphor itself is versatile enough to not just speak to the political condition but also also the metaphysical and the emotional and for me as a as a writer about Hollywood. It speaks to the condition of the Hollywood. When this movie was made I think Hollywood became Chinatown around nineteen. Seventy four thousand nine hundred seventy five which is to say a place where great work nearly nearly stopped being regular all right. We're going to pick that up and we're also going to pick up the question of Roman Polanski his own tragic history How that informed What he did on screen and also his own violent history? And how that informs how we think about him as a figure in Hollywood and outside of Hollywood Hollywood but I I want to talk about the semantic elements that you raise you talked about it about the futility of good intentions. I think it struck me in reading your book and thinking about this film through the prism of what I read your book That there's another element there as well. The the question of of darkness that you cite director interplanetary drew on his own dark understanding of life to make this film and to sort of shape and reshape its ending. He was a child in the Holocaust. Poland is pregnant mother taken and killed by Nazis than his pregnant wife. The actress Sharon Tate was herself killed. It's part of the Manson murders in Los Angeles. Polanski spoke with the American Film Institute. You'd in two thousand nine. You have to show the results of Louis Evil. That's how the tragedies in Greek theatres will conceived received you know ev- everything ends up in a in a happy way at the end you you know. Forget the film of Dinner Dinna Polanski's also said I thought it was a serious movie not an adventure story for kids beautiful. Blondes die in Los Angeles. Sharon had this. This movie played out was conceived and created after her death What was the threat of evil? That went through this film and we don't we can talk a little bit about the surprise at the end which is probably not a surprise for those who know that film but in terms of the great secrets of Los Angeles in terms of what inspired Robert Town to think about Out How power played out in la well after the murders town who was at L. A. Native really experienced. The overnight changed changed to the city L. A. L. A.. Went from being a sort of a sort of a friendly our town to being a chinatown. And can you explain what you mean by that. which part about a chinatown? Well you know it after when you wake up and read in the papers that The Hollywood Princess Sharon Tate and her friends have been brutally murdered grotesquely and enigmatically murdered. It hurt the feeling is well anything can happen. I mean it plunges. The city into a sense of nihilism goes from in your book. It's it's like carefree and it's fun and it's free love and there's drugs and whatever and then suddenly like it's people are using this stuff for escape and just self-indulgence. They can't handle it. They can't they can't handle it and it really can't be over determined. How abrupt change to Los Angeles was And and so town being a native was the naturally inclined to some kind of nostalgia and look back and say well what happened to the city. What happened to the LA? That I grew up in what happened the city that I loved and in the course of his research He read the mccarey Carey McWilliams book An an island on the God now. I'm embarrassed I forgot an island on the land which which is one of the most beautiful books about l.. Ever written and in this book Williams talks about out the Owens Valley water wars which was a very real scandal is laid out quite clearly in Chinatown and that became the basis basis for this script. which is a slightly fictionalized version of what really happened? In the city basically La beautiful set draped essentially over what is mostly arid or desert land. Yes water diverted yes artificial shortages created yes and fortunes made exactly exactly so the city is a crime. The whole city is a crime and to this day still is And that that became really I mean one way to elevate this movie above the conventions of detective genre and to go back to your first question. Why do we keep going back to this movie? It's got more going on than just a detective story. You know for all Raymond Chandler's great style. You could make make an argument that these books aren't really about anything. I wouldn't make that argument but smart people have made that argument. It's undeniable. That Chinatown has something an enormous on. ITS MIND YOU'RE IN LA guy. I'm from southern California from Orange County but this I didn't take Chinatown history when I first saw it but I took took it as you know it struck. It just was all striking in terms of what I learned about the city as well as the cinematic thing there. What did you learn about L. A. as has a L. A. Guy Yourself as guy steeped in Hollywood? What did you learn about? Elliot's resulting. Well I've always been fascinated by this question of why we're the noir city And this book really became an excuse for me to indulge that fascination that I had why is it that this beautiful chandler anyway. So why did Philip Marlowe all that stuff. Why do we have this dark side? Is it real or is this religious. Just something that that the East Coast has has foisted upon us. You know the snobbery of the East Coast intellect and to a certain extent. That's a part of it but but really it originated I found in the course of my research With the fact that La was sold to the rest of the country as the Sunshine State Eight Sunshine City and as a result of this enormous population. Boom that the city really couldn't accommodate collapsed briefly under the pressure of all of this of this influx and and so then noir became The the the shadow to the sunshine and people came to see. Oh wait a second. There is an underside to this dream. So so That really is the basis for noirs. I think I understand. There's a surprising to me. Your book comes out. Obviously you've been in the works for years so many the interviews so many documents he went into Tarantino Vokes some of the same period right in in in terms of the period in the creation of this film in once upon a time in Hollywood he starts before I do. I mean I go. You know he's about the murders and I'm I start with the murders. I guess he ends with the murders. It was a joy way to see L. A. recreated in that movie I gotTa wash it a long long time. But I'm not really objective about it because 'cause I'm such a fan of that moment and that mill you obviously What do you think? Where do we end up in that movie in our understanding of of what's possible versus where we start? What questions movie or China in Chinatown itself? Well I think the movie ends. I mean it's as grim as could possibly be. I mean nothing is really possible by the end of the movie It's an EPA story in the sense of all you can really say for it's happy ending is that we see the truth. Finally and it's ugly are delusions are shattered and yet there had been a fight over the question of hope that that that Robert Towne wanted a bit of hope and Polanski said absolutely. Yep Yeah town wanted to sort of bittersweet ending and I wouldn't even say bittersweet but like you said Ending with a glimmer of hope where the bad guys don't totally get away and Roman as we heard said no you gotTA shout of. They were discussing the classic. Nineteen seventy four film. Chinatown its meaning its legacy and its back story listening right now to the way you look tonight. I'm David Folkenflik. This is on point. It Support for on point on the following message come from MIT system design management jointly offered by Mit School of Engineering Engineering and the MIT's Sloan School of management earn a Master's in engineering and management SDS EDUCATES MID career professionals. To lead effectively Lian creatively by using systems thinking to solve large scale complex challenges in product design development and innovation using MIT's most advanced danced information and communication technologies. Join a virtual info session on Monday February tenth from ten to eleven A. M. S. D. M. Dot Mit T. Dot Edu. It's Oscar season and we don't want you to show up on the red carpet unprepared that's why. NPR's pop culture happy. Happy Hour is here to help you. Sort through the nominee's separate the best from the rest. Listen now and we might even help you dominate your Oscars pool point. I'm David Folkenflik. We're talking about a new book. That goes behind the scenes of the making of the memorable. Nineteen seventy four film Chinatown and why the movie stands. The test of time with me in studio is author Sam Watson. His new book is the big goodbye. Chinatown in the last years of Hollywood. You can hear them in the title. Well it's sort of folks at Chandler title right. It sounds like private eye and that is what the story is built around this private eye. Thinking he's involved in an adultery the case and getting drawn into some of the power plays and murderous schemes behind the great fortunes of Los Angeles. Jack Nicholson plays Jane Geddes plants. He has a bit part. He's the director is a big part of the Thug Faye dunaway plays elva Elon. Moreh her her links to tycoon. No across plate by the director John Huston and are unclear and become untangled only toward the very end. This was in some ways. If you really were to plot this on a wall you'd go slightly mad. I mean this is a Byzantine twisty labyrinth of a plot where you just feel like you're spinning tops and hoping to keep up rate eight. The actor turned Hollywood producer. Robert Evans was the head of paramount pictures at the time he was the near singular force behind getting China Town Green lit for production production from his bosses. Here he spoke on. PBS In two thousand and two for no one wanted to make it distribution is in Chinese picture. He's finished they didn't know what to do with it known Linda stand it until the opening strange. Everybody understood other movies associated with Evans. Wins include a love story Rosemary's baby which itself was also directed by Roman Polanski the Godfather that which proceed godfather to made the same year as as Chinatown. SERPICO Harold Maude. He had quite a run there. Why did Robert Evans whom you interviewed for this book? Why did he believe in this? Why did he want to get it? Made that symbol of the central question for me at least one of the central questions. He didn't believe in it. He believed in the people who were making it. The script gripped as you said was absolutely baffling to him you know. The first draft came in and around three hundred and fifty pages it was. It was really really tough reading But Robert Evans knew he had a Robert Towne screenplay and that was enough for him combined with Jack Nicholson combined with Roman Polanski. He bet on talent the way that many Hollywood producer today bet on Ip. They'll bet on the star wars of it all or the the Harry Potter of it all Marvel Marvel exactly well before that existed. All you really had you know in the BEF- before sequels was great great artists. And so Evan said Yeah. I don't know what this means but I know your good for this. So let's go with your instincts and really great producing is as simple as that I asked Evans when I was interviewing him. I said this sounds really. I don't want to say easy. said it is easy. Hey you bet on the talent and that was it. He was something that had the looks of a marquee star himself. Yes it seemed as though there you're capturing this period in Hollywood in which he gets up by head of steam as able to make some moves that people actually admire WanNa Watch and suddenly this is is what Hollywood is about for a stretch. What was it five seven years? Yeah I think so yeah late lists sixty eight to seventy four seventy five. I would think of as the golden period period which really is the would represent the Evans. Years Evan came to the head of paramount. Sixty eight sixty nine and left right after Chinatown so in seventy four. We had an author on earlier last year. Who Argued Ninety nine might be the greatest year in film seventy four? If you just take godfather to Chinatown and the conversation conversation. Yeah Blow Me Away Film. Yeah that seems to just an extraordinary explosion also lenny is in there. Yes yes I mean I I a AH no one can really say what the greatest it's kind of a silly thing to absolutely but the real question is why did that. Why did grownup films proliferate at that time even a more one like the sting is terrifically? Made wire films like that being made there and why did it suddenly pop there was an influx influx of corporate money from PEOP- folks like Charlie Blue Order Gulf and Western who bought paramount. So that was the first good thing. Now that could have gone bad. If Charlie Charlie meddled in The work of Evans. But he didn't he said here's the money. Go do what you do and then Evans and turn took that money and he hired the artist to go do what they did for the same reason. You wouldn't Commission Picasso and then say Pablo. Could you put a little more blue in the corner of the frame same here. That's how Evans worked. Now it stopped working that way once executives realized that they could engineer a hit and that happened around the time of exorcist. Jaws Jaws was really the famous breakthrough when that happened which has nineteen seventy five the same year by the way that ca congealed field ICM congealed and Robert Evans left paramount. So you have a perfect storm that that that incites the executives to say we know how how to do this better than the artists and then it was over. One incorporate a couple of notes from listeners from online from our website a listener who post this is Hammond says great. Maybe my favorite movie Nicholson's best performance tremendous writing story dialogue the backstory of the great L. A. Water theft and wicked surprise ending can't recommend enough to those who I haven't seen it. Forget the latest Super Hope Zero Franchise and then rights when I lived in La. Excuse me I went to climb Mount Whitney enraged that ranchers were still blowing up water pipelines sending their precious bodily fluids south into the desert city another listener on twitter posts Cohen writes interesting that the same subject of water wars with a theme theme of season. Three of Goliath is still something that goes on. is the water still raging in Los Angeles and points north. I don't know my research ended around. Nineteen seventy eight. Wouldn't surprise me in whether it's happening or not. Corruption of this kind is happening you know. Obviously I don't don't need to be certainly our public policy fights over water for real. I wanted to talk a little bit. You mentioned Robert Evans. Didn't interfere dear like didn't didn't want you know. He might have suggestions interfere. I should say did interfere sometimes to his detriment. He did interfere but he for the most part would back off a guy like producer John. Kelly was famous for not interfering a great producer. The the head of Warner brothers around the same time. But but I'm so glad you brought that that up Evans sometimes got too carried away but with his own influence but finally He knew that there there was a boundary there and yet each of the four men that you focus on Robert Evans Robert Towne script writer. Jack Nicholson Star Roman Polanski. The director each of them brought what things to this script to this story to this conceit and Evans may not have been right in the scrum but there was a tussle in terms of what happened. Robert Towne ultimately wasn't enabled. Bring it home. It seems to me from your accounting like he did so more than he didn't subsequent projects but that he you know he couldn't quite realize this and it was a point where he had worked so hard to retain control over this project and he realized he needed to yield to allow the director to make it his own yet. Which is the story of the screenwriter? You know I mean that that is its own kind of Chinatown. The town you know those were. The futility of towns is good intentions. He wanted to direct this thing but the way that it goes so often in Hollywood. Is that if you I need the money. And in towns case he did he had to sell the the rights to the script that he wanted to retain and so he literally sold out I had to and Evans bought it and hired Roman and from that point on it was Evans was really the boss and turned the reins over to Roman and so- Roman and one. I think I'm thankful that Roman one because I think his ending is the right. One one though screenwriting battles with town that that have been written about before. You're very famously. Let's play for listeners as seen from the movie itself during their final confrontation at the mall. Ray Mansion Jake get us the private eye. Hi demands answers from this tycoon. WHO's at the center of the scandal? That's no across played as I said earlier by the director John Huston why hurt get us as effectively actively asking so many people simply to pile fortune upon fortune. Why are you doing it? How much better can you? What can you buy that you can already afford? Ford the future Mr Gates the future not where the girl I want the only daughter I've got left you've found dot. FM The smallest to me on time ago. Who Do you blame for that her? I don't blame myself. See Mr Gates. Most people who never have to face the fact right time right place capable of the tycoon taking many privileges edges including the right to mispronounce Guinness's name time and time again Did that reveal truth to the filmmakers or did that feel feel true to a mood. They wanted to evoke both absolutely. Both I mean and it's a metaphysical question question that most of us thankfully don't have the answer to most of us have never been in that situation and I hope most of us never are in that situation but we're seeing it played out right now and in Washington and that's why I think the movie is more relevant now than it even was then in in the midst of Watergate and the at Phnom. Why well because we're seeing a level of evil and depravity that we've never seen before frankly in this country and Robert Town and his team included Evans and Polanski? Think at that point it really was the worst thing that they had ever seen. What was going on in terms of the futility of good intentions around Vietnam and Watergate but now I mean I can't even even comment you know it's We don't know the bottom of evil when we think we've hit the bottom of evil. How can we know that there isn't a bottom under that bottom waiting to early merge in you mentioned that you thought that they were responding to to Manson murders and how that shaped La? But you're saying they're also responding to the moment of sort of existential crisis is in the country. Who are we as a country Vietnam? The assassinations Watergate political correctness. And our own lives you know when we see something horrible we might say at that moment. That's the worst thing I've ever seen. That's the worst thing I've ever felt and then two years later five years later something worse this happens like to take a call from Hornell. New York Steve thanks for listening. Thanks for calling in. I just wanted to say that There were it was in my my opinion. It was a golden age of them because when beyond films that you mentioned there was also last picture Saul McCabe and Mrs Miller Bruce Jenner cloud just a lot of great film. Night moves a lot just like great. Tell them so. I feel like Roger. Ebert said. It wasn't near film in. I know that your Panelists that you have on the show like no. He said that the that you can't really say one another what what's a good year or or bad period but I don't know I For me it's I can't there's nothing compared to today that that's the same as it was at that time except for maybe some shows on TV irrelevant in In compelling. Like those counselor. Thanks for that Steve. So what about that same Watson. We've a caller there. Steve WHO's talking about a time where movies were made. I think he's saying for grownups that that they aren't fairy tales. They're not gonNA land perfectly. All the loose ends are not going to be tied up. Is it hard to make those films. Now yes even with all the different different opportunities and different producers and billions of dollars. Yeah and slathered on my Netflix Amazon in the wrath. Yes and a point I'd like to bring up is that these are films in the sense that they a US images and sound to convey poetically. What can't be said in words? I mean these are movies. They are not in other words. Television whose primary vehicle of expression is verbal. And I think right now I believe right now. The line between film and Television has muddied to such a degree that we're not really create keeping the distinction between them which is imperilling this this art form of cinema in the seventies. That wasn't the case. The line between the two was very well drawn and audiences dances understood. That the film's Gentlemen just mentioned the altman movies. Those are movies. Those are using sound in Altman's case sound so voluminous initially to convey a whole host of things you know namely the craziness of American culture. You hear that craziness you in an altman movie. You hear it. It's not in the language so much as the way the language just loads up our heads one speaker after the next. That's movie moviemaking. That's not television. Take a call now from Cambridge Massachusetts. Proper go ahead. Hey how's it going I just had a question on the Prequel to Chinatown in development by Robert Town. And if you knew anything about that what real direction or substance he's going to go with and whether or not that will sort of get into the tensions you describe between Polanski and town during the original Chinatown. I only know what's written about it online. which is to say? Probably really as much as you or the listeners. But what's what's what's interesting to me. Is that town and Polanski fought about Nicholson's back story story which I presume will form the basis for the prequel and whether or not they should show In detail what happened to to Nicholson's character. Yes exactly what happened in Chinatown before the events of the movie began town. Who did so much preparation Shen had all of this information he wanted to go through? Nicholson's backstory Roman Polanski said. If we're too specific about this we're gonNA lose the metaphorically impact of just suggesting it and Roman one And all of that is to say I'm dubious if you do make a movie. That goes into the backstory. or it could tamper with the power of the metaphor which needs to be kept vague emotional and briefly. Thanks for that call Robert Briefly before a this little segment segment break There's a little anecdote you tell about. What town or what? I think one of his friends heard from a cop who had been chinatown. That sort of inspired the line inspired thinking a a little bit. Yeah Town was was with a wonderful woman named Julie Payne and right after the Manson murders. Julie was so freaked out. They lived a one one canyon over from Benedict. They live right off benedict which is where the murders happen. So Julia was so scared she wanted a gun and and the town had a vice cop named. I'm Tony Silas come up to the house and To to consult on giving Julie the A gun and in the course of their just Chitchat. He learned that the the cop had been in Chinatown and And town said to him so what goes on in Chinatown and he says well. We're just we're just advised to stay out of Chinatown townside Johnson. Wise that he said well there's so many languages there's so much cultural confusion nothing that we can penetrate so you know just basically. We don't know what happens. Yeah yeah get out stay out. Yeah forget it it's Chinatown. We're discussing everything you'll ever need to know about the iconic movie Chinatown it's pivotal place in the history of Hollywood. You can share your take on the important takeaways from the film which scenes resonate with you on twitter and on facebook on point radio DOT MIRC. I'm David Folkenflik. This is on point. Hello only you so do this. Don't eat that if you feel like. It's time to finally end your war with food. This is the podcast for you. You food we need to talk. Subscribe on Apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcast this is on point. NPR media correspondent David Folkenflik. We're talking about the movie. Chinatown with a foremost authority on Hollywood with me. Here in studio in New York City is author Sam Watson. His new book is the big goodbye. Chinatown down and the last years of Hollywood. We're hearing from listeners online. We're getting some calls one of two of which I'll take in a moment Lee rollins writes on facebook. Chinatown feels timeless timeless. It's a compelling case that the alleged simplest of endeavors can prove to be holy fruitless It's ultimately a story about ignorance. People don't know what they actually don't want to know you. Holly foresman writes on twitter executives. Thought they could engineer hits Bingo that resonates throughout our culture giving cats. Thank you Sam Watson. Film lovers have long wondered under what ended the period of movie masterpieces. We can only see on TM and that if we're lucky WANNA take a call now from a Brooklyn Maine. Ah Judy thanks for listening. Thanks for calling in today. Thanks for taking my call You asked why China Town is wonderful and I want to. I said I think it's an amazing movie because it takes the best of Maurienne Chandler which was his atmospherics and websit leads to a really? Good spot I I don't know if this is a true story but I've always heard that One of the Raymond Chandler movies was being being shown Director maybe it was. Billy wilder had to call Raymond Chandler. And say we all are wondering why the chauffeur got bumped off Raymond. Chandler said a call you back in ten minutes and he called back and said you know what I don't know why I had the show for bumped off plots didn't always hold together but Chinatown takes all the inking let Chandler did about La and all the Fleming Angels Okay and just put it to a blockbuster plot and I shaped Robert. Thanks for that Judy. Same well yes as you said it better than I could. It took the atmospherics of Chandler and set it. Set them on an important important plot. And the movie that you're referring to is the big sleep. I'm the director Howard Hawks. Six and the screenwriter was incredibly William Faulkner and yes that's true story or at least a true legend. One that I've heard before it's amazing. Thanks for that a judy. We also have a a comment from someone who posted on our website going by. I'm pretty sure a pseudonym Gerald the F. Word in the third man listener writes Harry. LINE GETS IT wrong. Kuku Cox clocks were developed in Bavaria. Not Switzerland as he claims but his basic point comparing the art that came out of corrupt violent vice ridden renaissance Italy and from peaceful rational. Well Post calvinism dictatorship of Geneva. The orderly Switzerland is a good one and then the listener writes. This doesn't excuse or suggest we encourage sick minds and evil behavior for art sake but it does suggests that we not be surprised when great art has doubtful origins. Let's talk about one of the key players in here. You interviewed Roman Polanski and it clearly Helped inform your understanding your flesh of what he did you talked as he has done a bit And has portrayed on film a little bit about his haunting childhood his movie movie. The pianist I think is a masterpiece about being a child in the Holocaust In his case in Poland during the Nazi occupation and oppression there And the loss his mother and other family members friends and neighbors you talk about the loss of Sharon Tate. You also a write about the repeated. This is upsetting stuff folks. I want to be clear that he had sex with a thirteen year. Old Statutory rape in. It is rape Clearly he was convicted in this country and then fled. Interestingly I hadn't understood all of the back story It appears that both defense and prosecutors felt that the judge had wanted wanted to toughen it embarked on corrupt sentencing effectively. That is that he would make. It seem a lot tougher than what Polanski would actually do that. There were no guarantees and he fled the country and he has not come back. Merisi remains in Europe What Polanski did is monstrous? It happened after the death of his wife. It happened after the trauma he in the hall cost but it can't excuse what he did and he seems in other quotes that you have at one point he writes or he says I guess in a quote He says you write that. The that plenty confessed to sleeping with Swiss girls as young as sixteen on point and then he said that's the actual age of consent Switzerland and then plenty so they're more beautiful than they would ever be again. He wrote that in his memoir. As she recounted it seems as though plants he kind of gives himself a pass on this. How are we to evaluate somebody who is so masterful as a director and is at least this one time at minimum done something so vile and offensive as to to shock the conscience? I think you just evaluated perfectly. I mean he's all those do things. All those things are true and to deny the existence of any one of them whether it's the fact that he raped a thirteen year old girl or that he made the pianist is to not see reality. So I think it's actually rather not a complex question. Yeah he is a complex figure but the answer to that question of how we evaluate him. Is We hold all of these things true because they are coming what you coming but well He. He raped girl a an underage girl and he is also the greatest living living. Philip filmmaker are arguably and both are true. How does that change? Sean doesn't change the existence. And so the other. He has not been as prolific as he wasn't in that stretch before this trial before those charges at the same time. Hollywood there's still made movies with a major mischievous still done that. Is that appropriate. Yes 'cause he's a great artist. It's complicated. We've seen that with Kobe. Bryant we've seen that with the two moment we've seen it with Harvey Weinstein on trial right now in New York here in New York City not so many blocks from where we're talking. I don't think too many people would be open to be making movies with Harvey Weinstein although he was one of the most impressive and productive and artistically you know he fostered some really incredible films but Hollywood has turned its back. Yes yes they have is they have. Yeah it's he is a seems to be a real monster and and he was also capable of bringing some terrific film to a Americans. Both are true. How was he has an interview? Polanski Manzke He answered every question that I had He was Gregarious intelligent and reflective. And I enjoyed my time. Speaking with him I I did not approach these. I did not ask him these hard questions. He's been on the record about it before and I wanted to ask him stuff about the film that he really hadn't been working in the era that he worked in Just sort out of shade and information that I didn't have But I enjoyed my time speaking with him. Want to take a call from Janet. She's calling from Lexington Kentucky. Thanks for listening Janet. Yeah Hi I just I'm very interested to hear where you are in the conversation. This is just one woman's experience but I was Maybe thirteen fourteen. I think when I shot Chinatown when it first came out and at that time hi I shared a pedophile with my mother in the person her father and whether or not films you no need to be made I people like Polanski. I honestly I'm not sure how I feel about that. I am an artist myself and You know you make are for all kinds of reasons But I can certainly say that when I saw the moment what we still refer to. As that difficult confronting moment I do very end with Faye dunaway for very few of us that that was the an affirmation of reality that Stayed with me has stayed with me. My whole life I felt like someone understands So Janet Janet. Maybe he stay on the line with us for a moment. I'll play that clip for listeners. It's okay if that won't be upsetting. No no no like I said it's not upsetting to me because I don't have to imagine that I can touch. So this is a pivotal. This is a pivotal scene Janet's alluding to it's so classic that in the incident parodied many times but but it is upsetting and it is riveting. It comes toward the end of the film. Jack Nicholson as a private eye. Jake Geddes is trying to understand the hold that a major Los Angeles tycoon has has over. Evelyn Monterey and also the whole that the tycoon has over the tycoons mistress mores played by Faye dunaway. Here's a portion of that memorable scene. Who is she? And don't give me that crap about your sister. Because you don't have a sister I tell you I'll tell you too good what's her name Katherine Katherine. Who she's she's my daughter? I said I want the truth. Must She's my daughter in my type. The Janet that scene there. I think it's what you were referring to. And you're saying as upsetting as that was on a number of levels including the Jake Guinness's Jj glit- gives us his slapping Faye dunaway character brutally. That made you feel human isn't that isn't that extraordinary. Yes that that is what I'm saying so you know Let's see yeah. I think I think the fact that we are having this conversation now in public For everyone to hear is enormous value. And I hope more difficult than confronting films will be made. I don't expect them to be made in my lifetime even live a long way to go And I have a very good lashin. Thank you for sharing your story for that Janet. I appreciate it so much coach So Sam Watson I see you a sort of thunderstruck a little bit from from listening to what Janet had to say in terms of the the theme. The reveal of of incest being a central secondary corruption. In this film. There are two things that strike me one of which is My God that must have been a fight to get that in there given sort of executive sensibility in the second. You know it's too. Is this like Chinatown itself for or is there reason why that was something. They specifically wanted the film. Well the idea is that he raped the land. He raped his daughter. And this this is what evil does takes and takes and takes and takes and takes I'm really I'm I am so moved. By what Janet said This is what are you. This is what art is four right To make us feel less alone in our suffering. I'm amazed I mean. I've spoken to a lot of people who love Chinatown and I've never heard anything like that so I'm really just Thank you Janet appreciative listeners. Appreciate for Gen for sure This was a film that they tried to make Sequel four in nineteen ninety. I went to the I remember taking. I think I took a bus or drove my buddy Robert at the time to go. See the two jakes in in an Orange County Edward Cinema Anima and I really I. I wanted to see it as a beautiful pallet I remember that Harvey Keitel joined the cast. I remember that didn't quite work. It struck me they talked. What about trilogy? It struck me that in some ways the real trilogy. Maybe I'm wrong. Correct me but in the trilogy would be Chinatown. Roger Rabbit about the destruction destruction of mass transit in La and then L. A. confidential about how L. A. itself is kind of corrupted by power and Hollywood and fame fame Do those scan or is there something incomplete about what town and what the others had hoped to do. Well the idea of I love what you said. I I mean that yes. And and Roger Rabbit makes them very conscious allusions to chinatown a really I mean such a fun movie and worth going back and seeing it just wildly imaginative fabulous movie The the idea behind the Chinatown trilogy. Two of only two of which were made was that the first one would. Yeah about the water scandal the second would be about the land scandal and the one real estate yes and an oil and the third one would be about out the air in other words Smog and traffic and that one never got made obviously so that was the conceptual organizing force and one would be the third one would be the thirties. Wanted to be the forties and fifties and Jake would age in parallel with Jack La Hoya Boyhood Light Kinda exactly it would be an evil boyhood exactly what it would be and unfortunately we only have two out of the three and and. Why didn't that one work too? Well I part of the problem is organized by a studio. The Way Chinatown was this. This is a really studio movie. And when the studio started to disintegrate the the the ability to for Evans to control the elements of the movie also started to consider it just disintegrate. Not Not to mention the fact that there were now. There is now a lot of drugs. In Hollywood Evans. Had Lost Evans was addled town was adult Polanski was obviously really a fugitive. Couldn't come back and Jack did his absolute best to try to keep this together and it was too much for him to handle the one jack trying to manage the two jakes. That's the last word from Sam Watson. He's author of the Big Goodbye Chinatown in the last years of Hollywood Sam. Great to have you with us today. Thank you so much you can get the point podcast or website on point radio dot org you can follow us on twitter. Find US on facebook and on point radio on points produced by Anna Bauman just in down. I Lean Modern Brittany Not Stefani. Cut Sodas Martin James Ross Story Shammar Grace Tattered Adam Waller consenting Wertheim with help from Caroline love and Bradley Noble This is the love theme from the movie The title of the the film. You've been listening to us here at our studios in New York. I'm David Folkenflik. Miss is on point. MM-HMM AW

Chinatown Roman Polanski Los Angeles Hollywood Robert Evans Sam Watson Jack Nicholson twitter David Folkenflik director Chinatown Robert Evans Robert Towne Robert Towne Raymond Chandler Robert Town Faye dunaway facebook Janet Janet L. A. Manson
AT#628 - Travel to Singapore

The Amateur Traveler Podcast

57:28 min | 2 years ago

AT#628 - Travel to Singapore

"The bags back on a roll. And read. It's go in real good pass board. Amateur, traveler episode, six hundred and twenty eight today the mature traveller talks about. I Kotel 's indoor gardens little India, Chinatown and Parana can culture and hawker centers as we go to Singapore. Welcome to the amateur traveler. I'm your host Chris Christensen. Let's talk about Singapore. I like to welcome to the show Ashley hall who is coming to us from Singapore and coming to talk to us about Singapore, actually welcome to the show focus. How's it going? You are not originally from Singapore accent. You might have to pick that up. I remember Ginnie British. I've lived in a couple of different countries in Europe, but I've moved single six months ago in Britain and Singapore are just so alike that though those islands just once on Skuld. Excellent. And why should someone go to Singapore? So I was just reading this morning actually. Apparently. Now it's the fifth most visited city in the world. So people interested in right now. Really? Yeah. So what's really put it at the top of people's minds, especially, I guess, in the US is film out crazy, rich Asians. Filled with an Asian costs at sentencing abo-. It's really about spinal who who lifted as a great book to read as well, maybe watching the film, but it's gonna people interested about the architecture. It's a super molten city. I live with a couple of times drive as it and people think of marina bay sands, just the the futuristic hotel within a retain the town as a super Moton accessible way to enjoy Asia. And what would you recommend we do when we come to Singapore? I think the first important thing to think about when he comes to Singapore is the climate. So if I can share with you the fuss time I came, I was visiting because my sister married a Singapore. I wanted to come and check out a place in the family, but I have my expectations about how hot and sticky was going to be a nice status because I couldn't stand it first time off even Singapore, like supllies beginning, I wanna go back. Somewhat cool. 'cause this wasn't ready for it, but time off the time sent back the work and the grew on me. So my recommendation would be be a wet. It's going to be holding sticky pack accordingly. Light clothes and trying real day. So the scheduling give with that in mind that we're gonna try and keep you in Dole's during the midday sun and enjoying these nice evening Schultz and show that evening. I've arriving during the week 'cause the the tractions will be quieter. So if you coming in from the US most US flights coming in in the morning, some European direct flights arrive in the morning as well. Some pulley time once come in the afternoon, so settling arrive. Get your bearings adjusting to the heat, try will around little bit to the, I think a great way. Once you've done that, it's the head of the to the flower, the gardens by the bay. Just the other side of the marina. Sans exactly. Behind marina bay signs to icon, ick domes that she'll recognize from Newport skyline and the great because they're conditioned. I like, let's just on the inside. It's a really interesting place to one is called the flouting on. It's quite dry. When you go inside, it's woman, it's dry and it's exhibiting flowers from all over the world. So it's specializing stuff that's from southeast Asia. They also have a nice sub-tropical garden as well. So it's just nice to walk around that just that the real killer the the thing that I absolutely love about Singapore's. My favorite is the cloud force, so super interesting. They simulated picky about this because I'm a joker for by training. They seem relates to cloud forests to sort of what you've seen as like Costa Rica. They increased the temperature, increase the humidity like kept ready. Cool. So you get this two layers to it and you've got one layer, which is I think, simulating a thousand foot and then the next up another five hundred feet. So you see in this one attraction to different attitudes of store and it's amazing, they've got waterfalls, it's misty. You amazing of the city because if Hugh greenhouse, you can see the downtown from that. Yeah, it's just a really interesting of one reason you can see the downtown from there is that it's multi level, so it's not. It's not a flat dome you're climbing up into this. I thought it was great to. I completely agree with your assessment that I've only been in the cloud dome. I haven't been in the flower safe. You short time just do the cloud forest they combined to get. So if you can get tickets of both, and then if you get that, you also have access to something called the tree works, which is wide recommend doing straight Oeste. So anybody who's familiar with David Attenborough BBC earth series will know that. I mean, it's it's a pretty gloomy story about the world environment, but found it. Interesting how he ended one of the series by saying he held up seeing oppose the shots of of these magic trees a without offficial as Singapore's created this office area on reclaimed land within the last ten years, which is why excited to come on the show and talk about it the last episode with about ten years ago. So anyone hasn't been recently, there's lose more stuff to do and they've created this brand news downtown area and they've given it over completely to this garden because the advantage of being in the tropics is amazing, flora, fauna, and a really great environment to grow that stuff in the trees. They've laced together artifice materials and then allowed plants to grow up them. So they all a human creative forest, which is super interesting and David aspirin, we've just saying, hey, this is the future of what cities should be not eating each our cities, but bringing them in being sensitive to environment on the looks can elevate which takes you up quite high and then you between these trees parade. Ten stories off, I guess. So you have again a routing, the city, a number commending doing this in the late afternoon time, full pm onwards. It's cooler. So yeah, that's a super interesting traction understanding is the purpose of these official trees is that they're the cooling towers rather for the two domes. Oh, I didn't know that that makes them even more interesting. So I guess you've got a couple of options now. Finally, just orientate. You're in southeast Singapore right now. That's why the CBD is under the oldest shots. The of Singapore are taken the southeast simple small island about the size of London. Geographically in the east is the EPA which will fly into, and it just takes any about fifty minutes to get to town. So it's still in southeast the city. You mentioned, that's where the CBD's the central business district Singaporeans love abbreviations. Try to traffic report here like this, a Wii and the KP get ready for Singlish and some abbreviations when you're so now that you've finished doing the tree work, I'd recommend staying in the southeast of city saying CD and going to grab some dinner. The thing you know about Singapore, and I think the thing that grew mean every time it kept going was the food. There's a saying that if you throw chopsticks in the, it'll probably land. On the edible in Singapore and something excites me is it's amazing, Chinese food, but also due to the history and the different communities that live there. You can have world-class, India, feed world, cost Malaysian food, and it's a really special place to eat. I'd say that is next to the Florida. The the main attraction you'll be eating rail here. The while you're in the area is cooled. Now that does its local name or on Google maps. It's called Teluk hawker centre, their candidate for a world heritage site in the, they also special to Singapore the culture around the important, but UNESCO believes that they might be worth preserving in themselves. There's a huge coach of community djing, very few people cook so cheap actually to eat out and the way you do that sheep is to eat these local orchestras. They are about fifty years ago. The government said, let's bring all the people who serve food outside into these sanitize buildings, Wilmington the buildings. We'll make sure his great hygiene facilities, and then you can eat great street food insight. And that's just how Singaporean eat. It's the most local experience you can have for the iconic one. One of the oldest is loud site which literally means old market. I should say the interesting thing about simple being a mix of coaches that she a word that stolen misspoken from a few languages. So. Allow is means old in believe. Mandarin could be Antony's and possibly is a copy of Malaysian word that was copied from bizarre from Persia. When these Posen merchants, if so, just the name of it illustrates the interesting hotel mates and how using Singapore is anyway. So heading to this market next door to the market, there is a seating area and as called Saturday street. So you can go and have one of the iconic dishes of Singapore which is on the road and you can pick from any number of indices site. They in sit outside. So smoky three out in the spirit and it's nutri right next to some of the top hotels in the town, but they still got the street food coach going on. If you wanna head inside, there's also options you can choose. I love if you agree because one plus can can have Chinese food I can stick to Indian, which is my favorite. Everyone comes back to the table with their tray, like a cafeteria, and you could have exactly the view on share it. With the people around you. Excellent. And against signals pretty small, sticking on the same day one to that where you are right now, I'd head back towards Rina basin because every night I think twice a night. I think Asian Li, they do raise special shows of this. There's a light show around the downtown area. So it's kind of like what they do in Hong Kong. They light of the buildings, they file as us from marina bay sands. It's really cool to watch the really nice conclusion to the day to fill the scene, this amazing nature in the flower Dame's you've eaten really good food, and then you'll just watching is now a super modems if he and sending enjoying the view, you can do it for free. You can stand on the waterfront in front of marina bay sounds much or you can head up to restore ball, which is an increasingly popular thing to do. There's a really great one. The I like on top of the art museum. It's nice. It's not too expensive and it's a great or you could choose to go up to the top of marina bay sound as a super clinic. And if you're staying at the hotel, you can also the Infinity pool, which I I heard is like one of the most Instagram's spas in the world. I could believe that. Well, and for those who can't picture the hotel that he's talking about, this is the hotel that's three towers as I recall, but then joined on the roof level. And so it's the letter m. in some some fashion in terms of when it looks like, and it is definitely an iconic site for Singapore, not an old site, not like this has been there forever, but it is with at least within the last ten years to I don't know how hotels it was there when we talked about ten years ago, so I wasn't. And I think it must have just been opening then. So yeah, that whole areas just being reclaimed so pretty need on the. But the landmark attraction, I think Singapore figured they were still a destination for a long time because they had a great airline and they were well positioned for flights between Europe and Australia, like the same way, vice doing like, let's try and get people to stay here longer. Let's get them off the pain and coming in joy. What we've got to over here. You need to have. This nation like that and I am wrong. It opened April twenty seven, two thousand and ten. So it is less than ten years old. Excellent. Where to next that new. So we finished up the first day. Once I get little sleet, you'll way coming from Europe bull US you'll be like, although I should say, I think astray. Leah should be a super arrival nation, so you should be too bad if you coming up from Australia. So here on day two, I'd like to cool this ad a way you get to see Asia from Singapore. So I mentioned that an interesting mix of cultures and at least one growing up in the UK. I didn't have quite the same exposure to maybe if you're in a city like LA or New York, you have a Chinatown that you can get see, but samples. Singles on its little India on its equivalent of little Middle East. I suppose I'm really excited to take guests round that toll on shea, hey, we're gonna go around Asia today to each of the town. They're associated with communities. So maybe the the, the best thing to do by the way, this is an eating tool like this is very much about. That is the theme here with Singapore and I, I was there only for three days, but that was the theme when I was there as well. Yeah, it's important to know that these areas of town not necessarily designed for entertainment. I specially say that little India, but if you've never been to India and you have a feeling of like the streets Aliko what shops like it's a really nice immersion. So I'm excited to take people there. So kicking all, depending on where you're staying in town, you probably going to be in front of some water. So to orientate yourself, you might wanna take a a worst taxi tool. There's a couple of different vendors on everything and doing it in the morning mainly because it's cool mainly because they'll be very few other people doing about time and the city would just be waking up. Right? So it's a nice to see downtown as it starts waking up and the Bank start working and then make sure you head over then off your tool to Chinatown is a great place stuff. Where all would you go on a water taxi tour. There are a couple of canals, all arigures that feed into the ocean in the southeast of the city, and the taxis normally go along one of those rivers, you'll new because you'll be in front of somebody who vote key Robertson key. And there's another key that I forgot the name of that these keys at pretty much like beaching social Hough, the town, the next to the banks. So I guess after you done your day, they've working on the big towers you head to the river. These keys that have drinks have good food cigarette really life district, and it's a long those keys that the boats and then for people who are trying to look that up. That is the English key which is build q. u. a. y.. Not the American key, which is spelled k. e. y.. Special all everyone. I always wanted to call that quay when I see it, but I know that that is not how it is pronounced. Yeah, I'm just for like a short history like that used to be the trading area. So the reason why Lou rise, it used to be used as like the way you draw goods and exchanges happened. 'cause singles history is that it wasn't intro. It was a trading port. It was almost nothing before it was settled, and it was a superstar changing position between Europe and Asia say, grew up being this attracted people in different communities because they were great work opportunities there, and it was yeah, trading. Okay. So we're heading to Chinatown now, and there's a couple of temples to that. Widdly does a Hindu temple that's in Chinatown, which is kinda nice to look out for. There's also every famous temple I think is cool to is tooth temple and it's just this Ferrick like it's right next to the markets. They should hopefully start to be open at that time. If they see you can look around the market, maybe shellfish some interesting items and then at the temple. It's just really interesting to soak up as at least the first Buddhist temple the either being. So I kinda every interesting experience to walk around the atmosphere. Now it becoming too late morning now, and the reason why China town is because I want you to be able to have the cheapest Michelin star. Okay. Singapore's I told you about single coach in the whole culture the to focus that the machine. God has a wounded a stop. And the amazing thing is that they haven't raised their prices. It still about three singles, which is about one hundred fifty to have this incredible world cost food at. It's just as experience that you can really haven't Singapore. So the famous one is hokey John. He has a stool in the Chinatown whole center Chinatown complex, or you can head over. He's also a restaurant now, so you can expect to q. sometimes up to an hour for food, the stole a bit quicker. The restaurant, the more thin, take ways to go see the original place and go to Chinatown complex. I was there, but we did not queue up in interest. I have missed that. That experience? Yeah. I mean, people get pissed off by the q.. I've also read some funny reviews, say, I believe I was serve like with wooden chopsticks on a plastic Cup on housing plate. I'm like on, it's like three dollars dust. Chana of it is that it's exceptional. Simple food, hopefully you insight for that time. So you've had a long lunch, at least a whole sentence. They no air conditioned, but they do have fence. It's a little cooler, trying stay out mid mid day. It's what another way to combat that issue is to make sure you're carrying around the world who take sunscreen. Don't underestimate the fact that maybe because half the time and seeing for it's cloudy should be ready capital of the sun. So make sure you address the personally. Often noon. I'll be sending the two little India. So again, I reinforce the point. It's an area to walk around. Enjoy this some murals on the side of houses which she might wanna got some photos of again the attraction, hey, would be to head to the whole center in India. They can have amazing offensive everyday Indian food, which coming from the UK. I guess there's a bias towards food for the pin job region is not -tarian, and I realize as much as I love that food, it's not. It doesn't really reflect what you eat in India everyday. So going that whole Costanza will be great experience you to try the Yanni try great for the Taron food consistently ready. Great. Lou quick spiritus so lost on. I'm in the sitting down with a tray as eating my my lunch playing my and this guy just Indian guy came over and said, why not? Just like invents any in the mood right now. And he also, he just walked away and he bought me masala CHAI, which is the drink that you have is a sugary milky drink that you have off the aging, India. And then he just sat down and told me using young guy. He just got out of the Singaporean national service, and he was just telling me these really great stories. And we had just a nice interaction and consistently that people helped me out to eat Indian food. They told me about whether through this fall and so just put down your phone, engage with people around you smile and it will be a, they didn't get too many. So it will be nice experience also roundly if you're interested as a ton of jewelry shops, Hyun local recommendation, if you want to be there's a funny story which we quit amazon.com offline. Imagine if Amazon just emptied his warehouse into the into a department store in no particular order is cool. The mischievous enter. You can pick up a low prices crockery and gifts and. Food, but they have all the different types. It's a place where local shop, but it's super crime. It's in no order, but it's fun if you wanna pick up some cheap items and have a interesting experience. So I hope full ready. I hope you've just been eating Streep. Ready because you to fit in you either stick around in little India, neutral to go to one of the restaurant. They're all those choose from. I couldn't even pick out a good image in restaurant. You're gonna have a good time speak to the people launch, get recommendations from your hotel. You could stay around Linda for prophecy found in a. Or you could head over to third town? I really like it was last night actually with a friend beschwitz the, it's the Middle Eastern corner, and it centered around a golden mosque. Different names by the most consistent name. I've heard this time code is Haji lane, which refers to the main fab that goes through this area says key. It's small, traditional Singaporean houses that are taint its heritage and it sort of way yet it's Middle Eastern Hudson trade is settled and therefore you can get good Tukish food. You can get great Lebanese food. And also for some reason, there is good Paranthan food there as well. Parana can being the people who born in Singapore raising Singaple during the colonial period. So like straights bowl and Chinese all straits bowl Malaysian community in my impression, and this is having gone to the Parana can museum is that it's also related to the kind of mixing of cultures if I have that correct? Yeah, I, I was this last night because I was interested. Apparently they're even pushing. Branagan's who have mixed culture with south East Asia unsettles, his Singapore, the really recent country really recently settled, and it's still you see the melting. Perfect. And yet parental consumer is just this fusion of Chinese Malaysian Indonesian food, superb, willing to understand that better. I do actually recommend the Parana can museum that talks about that culture and has some exhibits about that particular Singaporean culture. You've been talking about the strategic location and if people haven't done. So already, I encourage you to look at your globe or your Google maps and zoom out a bit. So you're not just looking Singapore Putra looking where it sits, and all of this that you've been saying makes a lot more sense if you realize that if you're trying to sail from India over to China, then there's this great long peninsula that goes down from Thailand into Malaysia. And the end to Singapore, and you have to go that way because there's this other islands Sumatra right next to it. So if you don't sale by Singapore, you have two quite a bit out of the way. And so it's this really tiny street. All the trade was going through between these two major trading empires and Singapore is right there right there today too. So a lot of the ships that you'll see in the harbor are sailing in between those two big trading empires. And so it makes a lot of sense. When you think about the mixture of the cultures here of because you also have, obviously, Indonesia is right across the waters here, which is now a Muslim nation. And so they were trading a lot with the Middle East, and so very interesting place. And if you look at the map, it makes sense why it became that place chill. Yeah, exactly. And something I'd love to cut it by the end of the day, recommend spending a week or two weeks and Singapore us. It's amazing location. The very reason. Exists. The goning spoilers other areas. Adul- listen to one of the old image travelers from Bali Thailand, but we, we can come to that. Cross the street rather to Sumatra. Exactly. Yeah. Next to take today, three, I think we're going back to the steam of Singapore being of green city was one of the most interesting protected spaces and historical basis. They're all his the botanic gardens, which I recommend you either do in the morning or late in the off soon. It's beautiful. They often if you just had the one of the traditional mid down polls, fresh little Kula and Philly. Woking rainforest, but the morning is by the way this predictable. So this very large town. Sates towards the center of the island was still roughly in southeast little bit north, the CD and I think we'll heritage size well, actually it's a public spaces free to go in one of only three gardens in the world to be honored as world heritage site, which I didn't know. Yeah, special about it is it's not protected, so you go and enjoy it. So people treat it like a public park on Sunday. It's pretty full and lively with people just sitting out enjoying enjoying themselves. They have a concept venue where they on free concerts quite often. So I've been to a couple of orchestra recitals and some jus- festivals that happen just right in the middle of the gardens, he grabbed rug grab a picnic from one of the interesting cafes around the gardens, and you can just sit enjoy wholesale quite special is the orchids gotten if the pay a couple of dollars to go in that. But it's interesting. They read. A new hybrids of the national which is an orchid for dignity based dignity that comes. Okay. There's an Obama. Okay. I just think that's a really special gift. And I, I hope one day they might me one, but I know I'd probably kill it. So they probation of. Thank just made you flower and you killed it so, but that's kind of interesting. You will round and see the dignitaries that visited in the flowers that they think for them. And I should say like, this is a nice way to if you've not seen a rainforest like environment. If you know from that other world being the botanic gardens, he folded the pasta around in. You start taking these twists and tons and you can if you catch it on a day when his, let's say, you can start to figure out how I'm yeah, I realize now where I am, I've only acquainted I'm in south East Asia, and there's a reason why. Yes, it's hot and wet this peaceful force that I'm in these. These really interesting plants, bud stuff lying around someone who's into their double the none of those that you can see in Singapore, and you can see in the British Isles because it's on the migratory routes, and it's just super divest. The I love that leaves up to Singapore's claim being green city. I did not get there when my trip. It's worth a trip. Maybe quick to take an aside about how to get around Singaple. The public transport system is incredible is very well covered by that underground subway system which is called the MIT. When you go into the apple, you can grab a call just like most cities each Jenny costs about seventy cents thing. So it's very well price, and it's a very easy at conditioned way to get around the town. The rule say buses now that that cover every coin of the islands. And now if you get a roaming sim cod and you just use a mapping provided of your choice to get your around, the buses are really convenient way, especially if you're a soda travel. I would also consider taxis relatively well priced it. Currently. There's an ridesharing, grab the middle on the market and traveling at a big group. I just they hope in grab and head around town that way because. It's cheap, and it just gets you to a, you need to go thing was Singapore the coast. They punish people who buy 'cause with very high taxes, this very ready traffic congestion. So it's also super easy to get round like hot as well by taxing. I should say that the only time I've been in Singapore was at the end of the amateur traveler trip to India. I had a connection Singapore, which of course I made it easy to connection so I could stop and see some friends. They're having gone from India traffic in in Delhi, particularly where I think the longest I went without hearing a horn was six seconds. One time when I at it to going to Singapore, which was great. Big, white empty streets was quite jarring was like I was in a different planet. That's why I'm talking about this into a Taurus, these Asia because it's awesome cold, Asia light. That's why people like being experts here and they set themselves up here is that base a lot of American companies that festival hold into a. It's a good place to start your trip because it starts climatize needs to times I in the climate, but without undiminished. By the way, if we have made this already Singapore's a native English speaking country, they have a site die. That could Singlish, but it's very easy to get around. This doesn't Justin you to where you are in the world. Very accessible. Excellent. To next next you got a couple of options based on your -cation and depending on what you want from a holiday. So as I said, Singapore's, trying to position is officer the longest ever destination. So you might be interested to going to going to the resort island. That's cool. Sentosa there's a couple of different things to do on the island. There's a great aquarium as a theme pot could a Universal Studios now compact one. So it's good if you're traveling with kids to, or if you're like Zing this couple of beach clubs, so you can go that and still in the sand and drink. I wouldn't say this the highlight because Singapore is on a shipping route by definition where whites that. So you see oil tankers going front of you. So the beaches on puff IX, but it's just nice to sit by the water and relax. Maybe decompress from the fact that you're in this super hectic city running around each Ingles food, the Sentosa areas, a nice base to shut up. This is the southern tip of Singapore just off the southern tip of Singapore mile face towards south west at the island, yeah, tentatively. If you end up spending a long time in the botanic gardens and you co lunch there and you really enjoying himself as you read a little on those already, you might want to consider going even more north to one of the premier attack of Singapore, which is the night safari. So the night safari is it's a really interesting marketing three marketing of zoo, which is that all the time, he kind viz. You like. But maybe because the humidity and the the climate, maybe we'll say, because I behave differently at night and you see different animals. They set up this really great tool where you hope on a tobe us with a guide and they drive you round. And it's not really like being on a safari, but it's a really nice way of seeing the animals behave differently in seeing zoo from a different point at night game, both you just get to sit down and and be taken around. You can also tore it by if you like the the night safaris a really special thing I haven't heard of in many other places in the world. So that's a about the right time of day to do. And it's of Singapore that brings the end of day three. And I think by this point, most people would be thinking about heading onto the next destination in southeast Asia because Singapore is an has one of the busiest apples in the chunky apple and some great connections. So that's why is traditionally integrate stuff. I've -cation. It's funny because the most local thing to do is the joke is to leave Singaple on on national day. So you get national day as a holiday. But the real Singaporeans on in Singapore, they've headed over to Malaysia. You can drive to Malaysia rather get a bus. I wouldn't drive Malaysia. You can head over to Malaysia. You can get very cheap, low cost flight to these amazing islands. I think body think Thailand and unstuck exploring. Alternatively, you can grab a cruise sanitizer is also be crew stop. So if you want to start a slightly longer trip, if you want someone else to handle the heading around southeast Asia for you grab a crease. When I was in Singapore, I was visiting friends at who are doing a work abroad sort of thing. Actually, he works for HP there and I had a time my trip when they were actually in town because they've been taking advantage of the central occasion every time I look on Facebook there someplace else. Unfunny one considering, like I said, I, I actually didn't license pull the first time by my fifth visit, I was told to live, so might Rudy grow in you? And it's a really popular because it's so diva's experts feel really comfortable here. If you do like Singapore, you might end up wanting to just one. Everyone's on the move they taking on the massive at Otamendi is a small island right after maybe a few days his horse or a couple of months as as living here, you'll start to feel hemmed in and you'll want to help play in or and just go see different places and made the most of your time head. Clues to so many places. You can even do a long weekend in Thailand or something like that fairly easily. Definitely. I was lost thus fluids in Langkawi so you can head down a fight, fight outs noon, lots of people at the apple pretending to do what on other Friday afternoon, you jump one of the flights and you can be on the beach by Friday evening, having dinner, the special profitable being advocated. Excellent. What else do we want to tell people before we wrap this up? You've, you've got hold another set of things here still in Singapore, which by the way I recommend rushing us two three days. It's just no me. People give you could choose to spread this tinny out a bit more thinly to make sure you know, rushing and will say, we just had some friends. I recently saw offering them while they read about Singapore's kind of like a miscellaneous slash more local selection for you again, things which on necessarily like the most popular things by she stuff that we find ourselves doing day to day when we here in Singapore. So you mentioned apprentice museum. That's a really nice to try gets more history. If you're interested in not says, also the Asian civilizations museum tells history from an Asian perspective, which is a really interesting rebalance. There's also a single full flyer. If like London, I, you get a great me from the top. I heard that Lequan you who is the fa. Founding fathers, Singapore, Prime Minister for right on time. He had the direction of the Singapore flyer reversed because he was told by consulted that the bring better luck to Singapore. So they spent a couple of million dollars just making it spin the other way. So trying to prochet that and you go in. Okay. We've mentioned two things about history. If you want to understand more about Singapore before you get there, and it's interesting yesterday you can pick up LeBron use raw, the heavy autobiography cooled from third wealth to fest weld. And that really, I catch as in one to two generations. Singapore did go from a maybe what he is describing a federal country to one of the richest and safest places in the world. So if you want to really get into the history pickup book will keep me busy for the whole flight. There is no distinguishing likely canoes autobiography from the altar book fifth, Singapore, because he, he really wasn't nation, built it on people respected. I taxi driver this morning said the saying that, hey league on you is still here. He wouldn't have let grabbed come in and disrupt the taxi industry. So like he's really the father of Singapore. So like moving with the local choices, there's another pod town. I haven't mentioned so far yet which is gay line, the gallons a little. Further out back towards the at bowl. It's a funny place. It's the, it's actually the red light district of Singapore. I'm despite over like heavy rules and restrictions that the keeping looking beautiful and super-safe the still this space that is like left to be the red light district, but it's kind of interesting chewing gum, but prostitution is okay. I can't comment on that. Just to despite you can totally bring injuring chew. Will you like you've just gone by it here? Bring all the gum. You like durian on the subway? Yeah. So also you'll, yeah. Duran is a really strong smelling free the UI level. You hate hit that it's really Puckett. It's a little desserts and you'll you'll smell it like if there's a funny smell in Chinatown that stuff there. So yeah, Gaylon it's the community, a shed community between believed to be Malaysian and Arab traders that kind of set them up that some of that and this great Malaysian food that the whole centers around. They're like, you know, playing in Asia and you want to be renting or nothing. The MAC which is fried rice, really good fried rice. Can you can get it that there's also a nice restaurant? No name, newborn signboard seafood and seafood this place overseas known as because he doesn't have a signed bowl on Google maps, so you can check it out in. Credible food that one of Singapore's other national dishes apartments I is is salted crop salted crab and also show crab, and you can have that that the other reason you had to gay lying in the daytime is that they've got these beautiful shophouses. So the traditional preserved houses and sh the combined shops and houses that people used to live in Singapore when it was founded on they may. It's great photography seeing these beautiful multicolored houses and and you can just go down and experience what Singapore look like, maybe fiftieth if you are a hipster travel, if you feel like you haven't high fuel smashed avocado, and you're not white, then you want to be heading to Apollo town to cool young, Bari. And this was founded in the sixties like the architecture. Interesting, because it's about household out Declan show. But like this Lou Lou rice white buildings which are really pretty to the ground. It's a superclub town to live in. Now it's more I would say Lukoil, but it's, I guess, experts like to live and hang out food is hitching. You hod. Then there's a couple of rain is cafes. You can go to that. This will report to Lukoil hocus Senta Couteau by remark it up says, is the food goal. Downstairs is a wet market and a wet market is waiting for your groceries. They're almost everyone and this you wanna buy super expensive stuff in the supermarkets, you buy fresh fresh meat, fresh vegetables, and this particular wet markets. Folles again, good photography. Oh goodness. Soukup house of people. Shop here. You can try and bog into get yourself some tree if you like, and then now we're getting really local. Some. If you'll head, perhaps I'd recommend if you planning to Singapore's Papa, why the trip to make sure you don't miss your flight home ad in an extra day on the end of your trip to have one night in Singapore to acclimatize and often van back because normally if you'll buying second ticket than it's protected connection, and sometimes whether delays flights in southeast Asia, so that say, this is your loss dancing for after having travelled around the region. This is kind of an interesting place could hold how villa, kindness and toes in the south west of the island and describe it as is figuring painted, and it's supposed to be a Chinese representation of what hell looks like. So Singaporean people. Well, because parents take kids that kind of scare them. Hind a folded into repes-. So it's that scary mall, but it's just chomping and the the story bind is founded, built painful by the guy who who made Tiger Balm and Tiger Balm is this fuel medicine, pace thing that you can buy, it's insect bites and you can pick up in the pharmacy in Singapore, but really distinctive smell. I really like. So when I ground veteran smelling Tiger Balm at the same time, thinking about this guy who decided he wanted this gays kids with these, figuring that you can get ghost tolls in the evening. It's a really interesting Singapore experience. And finally, anyone who ruled walking shoes and feel like we haven't spent much time in the countryside. I didn't wanna representing pours just built up jungle. They're all really interesting countryside that you can get out too. So it's a lukewarm to go to somewhere like she. Reservoir, which is this big water catchment with Singapore, Seoul, some as fresh water and they fill around it a auto where you can just walk around. He wants go early in the morning late at night as a tree to- will keep can do there as well. So it's really connects you the nature, it's very chilled out thing to do if you if you over well with the city and this monkeys, wrath there, the Stotts syncopal goes back to a natural roots of what used to be that. So this salt, it's sticky and it's and it's golden age of the sample. A more accessible for someone who wants green area is if the some wave is the highest footbridge installed Opole. It connects very good at connecting. It's pox to each other. You can do very long even in quite narrow, green spaces. And that's a very central inaccessible. You can do just the Henderson waves over the bridge and enjoy. As we were talking about food. One thing's been gnawing at me and I've been googling Singaporean food to see if I could come up with. I tried something that I've never had before. I don't even remember what the name of it was, but it was some sort of deep fried egg dish that served with things in it. And I Don if I can't even find, there were so many things that I didn't know what they were. That we're tasty and delicious, but I didn't have a word for them. This was one of those dishes and I can't even remember what it was called. I didn't either, but that will happen. Jin Singapore-based eating things go around the whole point. Two things you wanna try. I've been trying understand like just points. You see what other people eating see what whether lung keys are an embrace it, but actually I'm really pleased to pull out. The one thing that I promised. My recent visit, a friends that they I've mentioned this cost is the coffee culture in Singapore, Singapore, as I understand is a messed up Kofi coach because of the British influence even Singaporean. These are the southeast Asian, oh, the British, very good coffee drinkers. So there's a very interesting type of coffee you can buy in Singapore cooled copy his spot with a k. k. o. p. I and it's a sensually by Defoe. If you just copy it will be this extremely. Milky sugary drink, and it's made with condensed milk which honestly, I haven't seen cooked with since my my non. So he date sit and connects it to Britain. In some way, it was coffee that was made full British service people. He was stationed in Singapore. They were looking for ways to keep themselves up and the troll when they trolling. This copy was invented by by people mixing what is really the way British people drink tea with the way the rest of all drinks Koby and it's really interesting to it's brewed in soak, actually. Can you describe as a salt inside of a watering can? So when you ask for they will lift the Washington to above head height on pour out from the sauk. This really strong coffee just got dictate to it. It's really good. It's really cheap, and you can have it in the morning. You can buy it. You can buy it from those vendors for most hocus. Sentas is also a couple of chains now and toast box or breads togue. Those are all over the place, and it's a great way to start the day. Don't take. A hotel. Breakfast, gonna have breakfast, three to five dollars at one of these these venues and it served with something that may time your stomach. Is coop toast and eggs, which sounds fine. And by the way, Kaya taste is great. This sugary job. If you like peanut butter, you'll like Kaya toast, but it's with a very, very soft boiled egg, so super runny. So you pour in Soysal's or I think it's just good doc sauce and you make black AAC mix. Then the toasted so British people recognize this from Eggen soldiers where you did Fred into a soft cooked egg again, maybe this is a hybrid food Sewri if Britain's country's food is terrible, but like it's so interesting to Singapore and I'd really recommend trying. They absolutely my friends loved have of the highlights. Singapore is quite liquids, France to try some try the egg the on the coffee together. I just clarify one thing I could swear that you said something about pouring the coffee from a sock. Yeah. Sorry. Didn't cite the big watering. Han is a case probably more best described as a filter. The vendors coolest themselves as song. So. Okay, that's that is important distinction there various than them, anything that worry as cooled off the dish that I was trying to remember. It was from an Indonesian restaurant. It's a deep fried tower of Eggen to fhu. So I see it online at the pudgy Zora Indonesian restaurant, at least I, there may be other places. I don't know if that's the Indian restaurant I went to, but it was a one of the things that I had never had before that. I quite enjoyed their. She can try them. I'm sure there are many other dishes in Singapore. You have not tried yet. We talked about whether for seasons, what's the best season you think to go to Singapore? Is there enough differentiation to even make a difference? Don't really for where I'm from. It's gonna be challenging, whatever time of year you go. If I'm just being honest, I looked it up the rainfall. Apparently it rains a bit more between November January, by the way, if you're looking for the full cost right now, Singapore, ignore it. It will be fun to stone a week. That doesn't mean we have thunderstorms a week. It's only either like right now beautiful in the morning and and sunny or it's overcast, but it tends to range very particularly one time if they so you can adapt yourself really quickly jumped out of the rating carrying umbrella with you. It's you can overcome. But yeah, for the weather wise, I wouldn't recommend the picket sick time of year. And then in terms of particular days of the year to be in Singapore, that's. That's quite interesting. I guess the highlights for me so far being there's a poisonous for North American audience, but there's a great race cope Formula one, which is a bit more complicated than that call. I guess. Really interesting is no many. It's f. one tracks are out of town in this special facilities there to Formula one races in the world, which held downtown for reasons. I have yet to establish its Monaco and it moving downtown available. So maybe Singapore once if it doesn't want to feel the racetrack. So for full day period of the year, in the moments in Oguz time, August September time, they just shut down the middle of town. And these caused these very high-performance caused race round downtown Singapore. So you can grab a ticket that quite quite pricey, but you can grab tickets, go into the downtown at this time and just grab a seat awoke around and watch these f. one. 'cause zooming around St. seen only down the bus down and it's it's good to watch. Why. Even if you see on television watch the race because you'll see a lot of downtown of all. And it's also the only race that happens at nights. So it's cooled. The nighttime race should clarify that I can think of at least one more Formula. One race that happens downtown is the grand prix of Long Beach in California. Oh, okay. And I know that until I was in Long Beach, see the great big walls that they have put up for safety that are there year round and when I was asking. So yeah, that's this is the course for the grand prix that happens Long Beach. Okay. So that was one of the things that you said also around that time of year. It's it's Middleton festival, which is loosely at Chinese festival and the distinct thing that you can eat this time. If you again is about food. Nice explained the cultural by faces. Everyone knows what you're supposed to be eating this time of year mooncake. Mooncakes a very high normally have a solid. Yolk in the middle sweet soft, paste outside, and the hotels in southeast Asia, particularly compete to make the best mooncake each year. So they compete to make the designs and flavors the people that buy and gift to friends, family business associates to give good Kamo good social connections. You give mooncakes to wish people's a good life and you, you mean cake. So there's a kind of mooncakes going on, hotel set out, stands in front of the hotel to do with the volume of people want to deal to buy me cake. And I think China town is decorated. Another time that Chinatown is decorated Chinese New Year. So the whole downtown is transformed old Chinatown is transformed just a bit busier for the same reason. You might not want to come to Singapore that time because as more things starting to close down and it's busy. But if you want experience Chinese New Year, you can consider coming in January February time. It's also important to say. The interesting thing about Singapore is four main groups, cultural heritage that comes to that presents a problem about when to decide which national day to take off. So essentially, h religion gets two days -cation of days of holiday, but then everyone else gets to take those two. So the Christians get east to one day at Christmas off, but then you also I'll I'll be looking at my calendar at work. And then apparently I choose day off because it's Harry riot for the Indian community, and then you can just go hang out in that town and that having this ration- and the the government is decorated little India. You can have great food and there's a visit. Great, five. Or if you don't wanna engage her that you hoping flight and you go somewhere else. You mentioned hotels best place to stay or best neighborhood stay? It's a good question. So I came here anytime come here. It's for work on a statement hotel like leaks, like staying in the on centers. Island is quite narrow office at if you want to be away from the city. We want more result. They holiday reading grab a hotel as a couple of nice ones, including the one where the Trump Kim, some happened there, lots of options that. So all the national brands, if he won't really Connick stay choose to stay one night in marina bay sands because that will give you access the Infinity pool of the talk. You can't just go into the full. You need to be a hotel guests that the chew stay. What night they're the Fullerton is a also very iconic historical hotel on the world front. They tend to be quite pricey. There's some interesting Futi hotel setting up as well. I stayed in one cooled vandalised that's in little India because I say passionate about India. Wants to locate hit that it's a boutique hotel. Only dream is decorated. Interestingly, there's a hotel waiting to see what happens with is the is one of the best rotates I've ever stage. It's the new majestic hotel design hotel that was in Chinatown seed, open your shuttled judges, and you'd be an amazing town. 'love' building great rooms, but it's secret what's happening to announce this to maybe something has changed with. Anything else we want to say before we get to some of our wrap up questions suggest that you know, like most of your time spent in Singapore will be in the southeast of the island, looking out the house of the missing, a big fan of the costs and helps me when this when speakers talk about the job Raphy spoken as a geographer. Joe, has it changed your for? Yes. Tonia poison the east, but you land, you'll help it probably in a taxi when she landed into the talent, it takes maybe fifteen minutes and the southeast of yacht and his wet. Most of it is the most of the activity in time you'll spend it. So you'll only be going maximum or five stop on the MIT to get the most basic needs to go. We'll maybe a ten minute drive. It's really nice and compact, which is why I'm recommending get so much done tenure along the river there of hotels to choose from and also on beach road. That's where there's some big international chains of hotels eating cheese on the relatively new. I, it's funny when you look at beach road on a map is cool beach wrote, but it's no near the beach because Singapore's nutri growth, they have land from the Asian that you can be single beach road might go tour till room, see, but that just a straight, how Singapore is being growing in developing that's all relative in you retrain that. A lot of buildings in Singapore are tall, I think would be fair to say that most Singaporeans live in high-rise. No question. So I think star is something like ninety percent of the housing is owned by the government like very early on when the newest building the nation, he decided no one should go without good housing, and he realized the people to modernize the country people needs to vertically, which is one of the most sustained stable ways you can. It's it's much better environment upwards outwards and drive suburbia. So the housing's much controlled by the government. And when you get married, you're entitled to apply for one of these houses which are really high standard and and people live. They HDB's in my your taxi driver refers housing Development Board, majority of Singapore living in one of those. This I find seeing contrast because it lists top of the world and one of the best places to do business and start business. It's very capitalist. You'll see that all the banks of that, but also quite strict. The conduct expected of people like to behave well and not drop literal trash, very high. So the fines Haifa misbehavior. But you don't see police anywhere because it's just so self police enforce something makes me off actually as Goto some shops, and then don't even have shuffling the way you'll know that shop is claire's is because they put a chain in front denoting the clothes, and they just blanket over there. And this is even Starbucks does this and some of the valve. Let's just like, hey, please just don't take off stuff because that just is their crime like a couple of hundred day last year where there was no reported serious crime. So it's just a very safe based in gate run night and very trusting. It's really. Interesting. So visit may come away thinking that just visited the city of the future. It's green, it's safe. It's modern. It's really interesting. Well. One of our rapid questions. How about the other one you're standing in the prettiest spot in Singapore where he is standing at what he looking at. He'll looking at Lau the sat all Teluk. I unlock it where I told you go on the first day because it's this beautiful Victorian age building that they've preserved in caps looks beautiful. And then you just till you head up and you see these skyscrapers just stunning around it really in congress re demonstrates the heritage in the mix of singable between Odin new on. It's great that preserving the whole. This is like that. If we wanted to summarize Singapore, in three words, what three words should we is. Noting. Excellent. Excellent. And you could do those separately or together to their food melting pot, or it's about the food and it's fun. Food food coming in. People definitely see the Chinese influence may people recognize as maybe a Chinese country. But yeah, English-speaking mix foods as evangelist gift. Again, it's been Ashleigh hall actually think so much for coming on, amateur trailer and sharing with us. Your low for Singapore. Thanks for having me. Keep up the awesome. What. With that. We're gonna wind, this showdown since it's been a long one. Remember if you're interested in the amateur traveler trip to Africa, two thousand nineteen go to amateur, traveler dot com. Slash Africa, two thousand nineteen couldn't have made that easier. And if you have any questions and Email to host, amateur, traveler dot com or better yet leave a comment on this episode at amateur, traveler dot com. If you want to sponsor the show us that same Email and thanks so much for listening.

Singapore India Asia Chinatown marina bay southeast Asia Singapore Singaple Europe China UK Middle East East Asia Chris Christensen Singapore Putra Malaysia Parana Thailand US
"Always Be My Maybe" star Randall Park and director Nahnatchka Khan

Datebook

31:12 min | 1 year ago

"Always Be My Maybe" star Randall Park and director Nahnatchka Khan

"Celebrate the tenth anniversary of Disney Pixar award winning film up when the San Francisco symphony performs the music to this new classic live on the big screen, July twenty sixth and twenty seventh tickets and info at four one five, eight six four six thousand or visit SF symphony dot org. Mission to. From our nine oh, one mission street studios. You are listening to the San Francisco Chronicle. Welcome to date book podcast. I'm chronicle pop culture. Critic, Peter Hart lob here with senior digital editor Mark. Karmen dosa, welcome Mari car high happy to be back. So we had a visit from the makers of always be my maybe today. Yes. Vandal park. And not Shikan. Randall is the leading man in always be my maybe. He's co starring with Alli Wong and is the director for the film Randall in worked together on fresh off the boat as well. Rondos, the star the creator of that sitcom which has recently been renewed on ABC. I know you enjoyed this new movie we talked about it. I think the day after you saw the movie but it's clear there were personal reasons why you were happy that the movie came out. Yeah, I have to give this. Disclaimer, I'm gushing just a little bit. And in this interview, but it's because I didn't grow up with a rom com where the leads were Asian American. In. It just was so great to see it on screen, I'm happy to know that it's going to be on net flicks on Friday may thirty first and I'm going to be able to watch it over and over and over again with my family. Even yeah. It's, it's also a very San Francisco movie so that checked, another box for me. And that made it very special. A lot of the scenes are shot near my hood. So it's pretty cool. Very fun conversation. There's some light spoilers. A lot of talk about San Francisco. Talk about Randall parks, early rap career. Yeah. We brought that up a little bit. I could not get them job any bars, guys. So I'm sorry about that. We're going to get him. Next time. Datebook podcast. Thanks for listening. Hi. I'm king Kaufman and shoots. Yours. Not your century. It's a daily podcast where we celebrate the news and the newspapers of days, gone by give us a few minutes every weekday. We'll tell you a story and then we'll return you to yours. When did you get in San Francisco? Did you just get in today this morning? We got in yesterday. Yeah. And we did. We've been doing some stuff for the movie last night in an all day today, did Allie, give you any recommendations on where to go. Or do you have you felt like you know, the city enough now navigate she took us to what was that dim someplace, cityview city view? Delicious for lunch today was amazing. And then she, she went to the Aren de lounge. She's always going to the. Orangina for the crabs so good. And then turtle tower. And the tender line that delivered often. Do you. Well, cool. I mean and, and actually, it was Elliot's decision to, to shoot always be my. Maybe here in the city. Is that right? Well, it was a definitely her upbringing here. Played a huge part in that making it into the story. Yeah, it kind of made sense to, to. Well, for us, when we started riding we really like the idea of, you know, a lot of kind of classic movies where the city is actually almost like a character in the movie, and San Francisco, just seemed like the perfect kind of place to set our story. Yeah. I was actually in Anna how what parts were actually shot in San Francisco, because I know some weren't right? Many of them shot in San Francisco. But yeah we should some of it in Vancouver. And then we came out here last July and shot out here so we shot there in the Richmond district all the childhood stuff their homes markets and Sasha. We shot at the farmers market at the Civic Center, just right down the street. Yeah. So by there, and I we lived that moment in the movie my mind. I was so much fun to shoot there. And also, it was interesting because they were like you could have control of some of it, but not all, you know, the farmers market was in like operational that day. So I you know, I wasn't sure how that was going to be like, are people gonna be looking at the camera like, how's it going? Nobody cared. We were there. They were there for the produce. And it was so much fun to like there's a the shot that we wound up using the movie, you can see if you watch it again, like Allie, sorta gets jostled like as she's coming to see Randall, and those were just, straight up shoppers were not extra. Trying to get the cucumbers. Did not care, I do have to say though, I noticed the commenced street shot that was not here. That was not. What, what was the choice there? Why not do it like say on grand avenue or something like that, in Chinatown? I think it was a scheduling issue, you know, because we, we wanted it to be a, you know, set in that area, sort of Clement street area have that look you know, so it looked different than sort of the China town that you've seen a lot of movies we like the vibe of it when we came back here scouting, but then schedule wise can't remember why that, that scene moved to Vancouver. So then we had to find, you know, stretch a street in Vancouver to mimic. The San Francisco, you know, look that we wanted it was, it was definitely like a love letter to San Francisco actually shots. I know there was a lot of that there were a few shots of the Balboa theatre for more sorry. Yeah. And that meant a lot to Allie yet, right? Yeah. That whole area is very much means a lot to Allie. The sunset Richmond district. That's where she grew up. You know, a lot of her family's still out here. Mom salutes here. Brother and sister and their families. Her niece, so she was very specific about, you know, kind of what she wanted to feature in the movie and what these guys wrote on the page, you know. So when we were out here were very targeted with our scouting, Randall for you. I know you grew up in Los Angeles shooting, the movie up here, though, did it make you fall in love with San Francisco in a different way. I mean I already was in love with San Francisco. This is where my dad first moved when he came to the US he lives in San Francisco for a while. And. Also, when there was a time when I was doing standup comedy and it was around the same time Allie started, and I would come up here stay with her, and she would kind of take me to the rooms all around the city, because she at that point she already had ins, you know, throughout throughout the popular spots to perform so, so it was just a great place to work out material. And so I tried to come up here as often as I could. And and I just love it. I and I before our movie. I was shooting at man and the wasp year. So I kind of got a sense of what it was like to shoot and San Francisco and it's just such a beautiful beautiful cities. So, yeah, I was I was so happy that we've got to do it again. The views are great. So I'm sure you had a great time shooting, just like be roll. You know, we had to get all that be stuff. We got that shot of low kids running down the street, and we go up. Oh, that's shot is day two. It's like we don't know is the fog gonna are we gonna see? The bridge. Or are we not gonna see the red? You know, you can't really control it. We went out and scouted it. And every time it looked good look good. And then it was foggy that day, and you're just like rolling the dice. And we got this, you know, this great image of these two little kids, sort of running towards the bridge, and then seeing them out in the city and, you know, we shot all of the, the maximal restaurants with Keanu. That was all shot here we shot at the Jewish museum we shot in the penthouse Fairmont, we just shot you know as much as we could out here. I have to admit I saw he on you on the street. So I live near Fairmont, and we were coming out of the masonic garage, and I had to tell my fiancee to stop, like, really like, hey, there's somebody walking, and it was Keanu almost like, are you seeing John wick, I save John? Nick being ran over by little. This during the film when we were shooting because he was walking there. And he walked into the Fairmont so that I was stalking him or anything. No. That's that's awesome, though. So let's talk about the casting for he can. I ask like did Allie ask for him to do that? Did you come up with with having Kiani play well early on while we were writing we were we wanted this person to be Marcus worst nightmare. And he shows up at a time when Marcus finally ready to admit his love to, to a professes love to, to Sasha. And, and then she has a new boyfriend and what would be like the war scenario of the worst person for Marcus. And, and, and the way Allie puts it is, you know, we wanted to get someone who was Asian American who was a, a movie star or someone icon, ick someone who is a great actor and someone who could be funny and someone who was would be open to to poking fun at themselves. Elves, and I mean really there's. There's really only Keanu. Whittle that list. Oh, yeah. But we didn't think we'd get him. I mean, what are, you know, if you want Kiana when you're mode at the chances, you're actually going to get. But we somehow we somehow God him can you talk to me? Well, you know, at a time, during entertainment, the entertainment industry and representation and fair representation. It was very clear in the film that you guys weren't like falling into those stereotypes of characters in the film didn't check off a particular boss, Marcus, the character that you play always be my maybe he's not a technique. So were were, there conscious decisions was was it easy because these people were already exist in your life. You know, Asian Americans that actually are your friends like this. Or how did you guys go about the characters in each never a conscious decision like, oh, we're going to avoid stereotypes with every character? It was just a kind of an real organic process. And I think one thing that alley, and I am not. One thing that we share. I think as we get excited by things that are new and different and, and interesting. And and it's just more interesting to, to do things that haven't been done before. And so, and at the same time, a lot of these characters, yet, these people, we know, these are people we grew up with these people. We identify with. So it just kind of organically, all just happened and. Yeah. And, and now we look back in. It's like oh yeah. We avoided a lot of stereotypes, or we like, you know, delve into new places and, and new types of characters, but really, it was just us trying to tell the best story. I think it said pretty awesome. How as you as the leading man. I think maybe initially people would not have seen you in that role that you've fit it. So, well, I actually was talking to friend who said. And I hope this isn't offensive but he said. Your. Pretend like I'm not a fan. He's like Randall park is like the Asian Tom Hanks. Oh my gosh. Hi compliment. Because it was just like your, your sweet, you're the guy next door. You're pretty damn handsome. I can say that too. I like to say that he's a snack out here on the street. That's how I like to introduce Randall. Ancient Tom Hanks? Are we going to see more of you and wrong coms, perhaps, I don't know? Maybe I mean, we'll see what you know what, what happens next, but that's really nice to hear. And yeah, I you know, if I'm a snack, I'm snap. I'll take it. I hope we see more of your Ron calms because you're, you're so good in this. So I'm excited for people to see it. And I know you have actually also said when I compare this, when I described this film to people, I say it's like when Harry met Sally, but Asian, and I kind of cringe when I say that because I feel like gosh, why do I have to have as a qualifier? Except like I have to have it as a qualifier, because there was not this kind of rom com when I was growing up. I think this is really great. They, you are the Asian to'mix now for this different generation, what do you think about that, though? The having to have that qualifier. I think it's I think I it doesn't bother me. I mean, I think it's I think it's natural for a lot of people to see it that way. And I think it's I think it's great. He now I think ultimately the most important thing is that we, we made a great movie, you know, and, and a really funny movie a movie with a lot of heart, and, and that's the main thing, but, but, you know, the acknowledgement of the Asian -ness of it all, or the, the, the woman this of it all, or that, you know that all of that is great. It's great. I think it also kind of goes back to what you were saying earlier about, how like each of these characters kinda subvert stereotypes in a way. It's, you know, in every every step of the way, I think, you know, these guys in myself like we made the choice to. So, you know, for example, when you meet random character and present day and his dad comes in smoking weed, dancing front of mirror. The tip. Ical sort of agent. Dad response would be to kind of like knock that down into like, you know, outrage whatever. And he's all right. We'll come on. Let's go, you know, sich acute scene. Yeah. And they, they have a dance battle instead and you haven't really again, like that's not a big sort of, you know, glaring flashing item. But when you're not used to seeing these things, I think every choice like that, to me is sort of like, like a quiet revolution. In a way, you know, because it's like we're not taking the road that we've seen before or maybe the easier choice Randall living at home. You know being like he's not like a loser who lives in his dad's basement, you know, he's great at what he does. He's a rapper alley being strong businesswoman like she. She isn't like in shoulder pads. It's not dynasty where she comes in and fires. Every, you know, she give me ambitious and also afraid and you know knows what she wants and then, you know, cries in the in the meat freezer. So I think, you know, painting characters with sort of unexpected strokes is, is something that were, you know? Sighted to do. Yeah. I have to point out, one of their many, many of my favorite scenes in here. But there's this great part in the movie for me. It really resonates. There's a scene, where these two little girls are running inside the house, and then running outside the house. And when they run in they take their shoes off. And then they put their shoes back on outside. It was a seamless shot. And I find like when you when you watch these films with Asian racket characters and they'd talk about taking their shoes off there. So overt about it like they have to explain it to their white friend, or whatever this, there were other scenes to where, like alleys taking off Raju's where she gets and there's no Spanish in there. It was says natural as putting your car keys on the kitchen counter. When you get home and I love that was that a conscious decision on your part to make that thing. Definitely. Yeah. I mean, you know, when we talked about for, as for every scene, I, you know, always ask a, comma, get into the scene how my get out of the scene was the point of the scene in the bigger story. And that coming into, you know, the birthday party sequence I wanted energy. I wanted to establish where we were. And so following these two little girls gives us energy that running in their giggling, they're laughing and then the, the real of it like we're saying is, that's what they would do. You know that's what I did. That's what everybody did growing up. That's what you know, is true to this area, and these people, you know. So it's like without making a big scene isn't about that. But that's part of this world that we're creating that we're inviting audiences into, to sort of feel like they can connect on this on this level. And it was, you know, it was very it was like you're saying, a one shot, you know, tracking shot. So it was very wit to do it a few times to get the timing. Right. And but it was worth it. You know, and saw scenes like that or moments like that, they're, they're not written into script. You know, we didn't write in the script two little girls run into the house. Stop. Take off the shoes. Brent through the house pick, you know, we didn't write that. But I think it's a testament to not and the, the importance, the, the acknowledging the importance of those details. And, and, and making sure that those details are right Hinault. The just the little the little things that kinda give the scene a moment like that flavor. You know that couldn't have been done. I don't think if it wasn't for the fact that you guys actually grew up with that kind of that, that was in your back on that was. That's what you guys did at home. Right. Yeah. And that's again, why I think representation matters in, in the industry. I don't know. Are we at a point where people are getting sick of hearing that during the media, rents tour is about like, oh, what do you think about representation? No, I made it so important. You know what I mean? Like you never really strived. You're just trying to make the best thing that you can make right. We're trying to make the best movie possible and to me like. Doing something. Well is the best form of representation, you know. So it's like we're out here, you know powder this movie, and the fact that people are bringing representation is important because it means that we're doing something right? You know, people are wanting notice connect to it, and notice, exactly these small things that, you know, you never really know when you're doing are people going to respond to this unique notice. And so it's, it's satisfying. So the first time I watched this film, I was one of the lucky ones to get even more than once. Yeah. I immediately text message my sisters, and they both have kids, I, I don't have any kids, but I, I consider that my kids. Right. So, and I told him you have to watch it and when they're young but when the kids are old enough to be okay with the sexiest. Like you know, they should watched it. I told my sisters that. And, you know, honestly, going up again, didn't have any of this. I wonder if my like my love life would have changed, if I had watched this, do you think about, like how this may how this may affect this new generation that will have this as their sixteen candles, or you know, pretty in pink? No. I haven't thought about that too much. But that is that is like real interesting that, that. Yeah. I think it will have an effect on people. I don't know if it'll have like a profound immediate effect, but it's one of those things over time, you know, that, that, that, that does make a difference, especially if, if there's other things like it that, that get made and just over time, seeing these images and normalizing these, these portrayals, you know, I think they do shape, the shape, our lives Randall, and I talk about also like when we were growing up, we didn't expect to see ourselves. It wasn't like looking for myself. And I just was never a thing. You know, I don't think I like I didn't grow up thinking, you know. Oh like advocating for it. But when I saw it finally, you're like, whoa, you don't realize you've been missing it until you see it. Yes. And so hopefully now that they're more things like it, you know, the new general like, you know, your, your nieces and nephews and my niece and nephew will see this in in they expect to see themselves and to me, that's also progress. Right. Because it's like going from not even having that, as an option to now, searching it out and having things that you can kind of, you know, gravitate towards to me, that's a big big step in the right direction, definitely. And that actually brings me the fresh off the boat. Congratulations on the renewal of the new season shows like that. I mean again like my niece and nephews that is their full house, like they've been watching it since the first season because I made them watch it at my came to visit me, and I was like this is what we're gonna watch, you know, and, and, and now it's just a part of their regular programming. And so, again, I think it's really important to have it as an option. But yeah, congratulations on the on the renewal, I spoke with Jimmy Yang recently. And, and he's excited to see it. I hope we see more of horse in what, what can you tell me about season six? I mean you know, we're just starting up getting the writer's room together. I think that one of the things that we've done on the show is the show has sort of moved through time as we've moved through time. So, you know, came out in two thousand fifteen so in the show it was nineteen ninety-five. So it's always going to be twenty years behind us. So this year, they're going to deal with stuff like around Y, two K, which I think is very. Bring me back. The computers are rising up, like we're all gonna get water and tuna fish go. You know, protect ourselves. So I just it's fun to kind of look back and see what was going on twenty years ago, and kind of, you know, build stories around that as the creator of fresh off the boat. You're great ally for Asian Americans and entertainment. And so, I, I do want to know your thoughts on, like what's next for what can Hollywood do for representation Asian Americans and people of color in general. I think, you know, personally, I think that people in Hollywood who have the power to make decisions who light projects movies TV shows, the more projects that they see working the more that they understand that there's an audience for these things. The more stories get to be told, you know, and I think it's just about opportunities. So it's understanding that whatever your version of events has been, you know, you always hear the reasons of like why something hasn't gotten a green light before this, you know, it doesn't sell internationally. It doesn't, you know comedy doesn't translate outside of the US. You know, there's these all these sort of industry thoughts that have been around for a long time. And then something comes out and breaks through that and shows that that's not the case, I think not to get to sort of big with the thought, but something like net flicks and all these streaming platforms that are coming out have sort of up ended everything that people thought they knew. And they're offering movies like, you know, always be my maybe and to all the boys, I've loved, and just like different stories with different protagonists. And I think the more opportunity there is just you have to keep going. And you, you understand that was doing anyone any favors? You know what I mean? It's like you're we're all out here. Trying to make something we can all benefit from this. Yeah. Awesome. I do wanna go back to always be my maybe and your your rap game. And the bay area nuts too as well. I mean lyrics born is in it. I know done Dan, the automated helped with the music, I think I saw cameo by DJ Huber. So can you talk to me about your your rap game? Really? I mean I understand you, you were an while out with. I believe you collies wasn't a band and the van was very similar to the banned. You see in the movie, except we were younger at the time the band. The band in the movie was is it was, essentially what, what would the ban be like, if they kept going that band, and they're now in adults and still playing, and we'd probably be just like the band and the movie was the band name in Iligan Iligan alive. Instruments and up except we had, like, two, rappers and a little trivia in the scene, where Allie when such googling Hello peril. Those are real pictures of random elegant photos hearing his elegant airlines. Super young. But, but yeah, it you know, it just wasn't the music was was real important to the movie, and it was important that it'd be good. And, and that we capture a certain sound that was a little bit of a throwback sound because this guy is kinda stuck in, in, in a time, you know, and, and yet we Dan, the automated, or we gave him the parameters easer for instruments in this band play with those for instruments, and he came up with these beats that were just amazing and lyrics born in the band, which is like, so wild. And yeah, yeah, it was a lot of fun. Do you. I'm sure everybody asks, but can you like freestyle still is that still on your thinking? But you wrote all those lyrics, though. I did. I did. It was fun there, selfies those. So I was, you know, I sat through the whole credits just. Yeah. That's that's amazing. One more question. So going back to the sex scene. I know there's a lot of talk about how, you know, seeing Asian Americans or Asians, doing like sex scenes in film, and TV, or are not very, it's not common. Can you talk to me about that scene? And I, I believe it's, it's based off a your store, your virginity losing. Gosh, that really got out there. Yeah. It was. I mean it was something that we in, in the room, we were, we were trying to figure out how to. Had a create this moment, where leading up to this big fight and, and. It just I offered this story that actually happened to me and. Notch and Allie. And they were the team. We're just like let's do it. But it in the script in the made it into the script, and it's, it's it's very strange. That he said that he was after the, you know, that you and your high school friendly, Virginia. Whatever you had a very awkward, like encounter after that, McDonalds. And they didn't know how to be around each other. And I love that, you know, I like I love that sort of the aftermath of that now what do we do this whole big thing is just happened? And we were looking up at the manual, you know, it's above the counter staring at it, and we did not wanna look at each other. Staring at the menu for what seemed like hours, you know and, and that. Yeah, that was in there. Viz pretty hilarious. I think a lot of people will be able to relate. I think we'll see. Anything else you'd like to tell a area fans about always be my may be and how they I mean this will probably be on everybody's Q like over and over again. I think it's really fun to watch over and over again because you can catch all these little subtle things. It's great. I just hope people like it. And if they like it, I hope they. Yeah. Watch again, Tele friend and, and. Yeah. That, that, that's really it was really such a great experience. Like making this movie with people I love like notch an alley. And in the whole team, it was just such a joyful experience. And and, and I just love for the audience to take a little bit of that what, you know, watching the movie and, and hopefully, they'll, they'll feel the same coming out of it. Hey sorry about that. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, I agree. I just want to cough my agreement. Okay. Like exclamation. Thank you so much again, for stuffing in here at the chronicle. We really appreciate you guys taking the time, counting us funding banks. You are listening to the San Francisco Chronicle, thanks to Mari Carmen, dosa and our guests notch Khan and Randall park. Our producer today is me. Peter Hart lob supervising, producers king Kaufman and Libby Coleman executive producers Tim O work, and our editor in chief, is Audrey Cooper, our music is midnight special buy ease Jammie, jams. Read columns and subscribe to the chronicle WWW dot SF chronicle dot com. Chronicle podcasts on apple podcasts and other streaming services. Listen at WWW dot as chronicle dot com slash podcasts.

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Standout Companies and Breakout Phenomena

After Hours

29:50 min | 4 months ago

Standout Companies and Breakout Phenomena

"HP our presents. Hi everyone gearless to after hours. I'm young I'm here and I'm Felix you guys doing hanging in there hanging in there. This feels like a thirty eight of she. So how'd you hit the point where you find yourself engaged some kind of activity that you normally never would otherwise we have all of these house? Projects Light Bulb that basically eight that all these projects while they're melting really fast. That you say that this last weekend my husband he cut me and one of our bathrooms with this big measuring tape and he said what are you doing and I I was thinking. Maybe we could renovate eastern whatever Jimmy here. Yes it definitely. The study has never been cleaner. Which is fantastic. I also feel like I have to be really careful about what I start watching because I will finish it. Even if it's total junk I will go to the last episode and so I am binging but after we really really careful important question is has your morning routine changed in other words knowing that when you roll out of bed your first meeting and in fact all of your meetings are going to be virtual. Does it change how you get ready in the morning. Beverley extended use of Pajama. Actually tonight. Ever go back. I've actually maintained I'm a creature of routine. I was a little surprised. You're wearing a tie now. I always feel a little insecure around you without a tie. Yeah so I actually maintain like I immediately get up and go to shower and I have to change and I have to be up. It's the only way I know how to live. So I have not altered that at all What about you young man? I saw her in between the two. I to get dressed Felix Plaza. Just say I. I'm getting a little extra sleep every morning for sure. Okay so both of you guys brought in topics for this weekend so Felix you fight or something. Yeah I thought it would be fun to talk about standout companies. You Know How people say in times of crisis you really get to learn someone's character and in a way that's also true for companies and so I wanted to ask both of you just about which companies did you see that felt like doing something really amazingly positive or maybe something that is highly questionable given the uncertain times. Excellent sounds great. Yes I was just curious about what you guys think of is the really kind of big breakout phenomenon that have come out of this corona virus. Maybe a little bit lighter of a topic. What is the mean or the video or the thing that is happening in the world now? That never happened before that. You've really caught a hold of so I'm curious about that. Great Good Felix. So let's talk about these unusual companies. Me Here what did you observe? Well there were so many both inspiring examples horrible examples of layoffs but also of firms coming through with better wages for workers but I was really struck by one that happened in Australia with Qantas and so the co of Qantas when International. Flights were completely stopped in Australia. He decided to follow thousands of workers. And these were baggage handlers to pilots to everybody but what he did in conjunction with that is reach an arrangement with woolworths. Which is a large retailer in Australia to basically try to streamline the process for furloughed workers to get employment at Woolworth's the reason I liked this is because we've talked about how important it is to maintain firm employee relationships but what we also have is some firm scaling up hugely supermarkets and delivery. There's things that are actually hiring Amazon. And then people are just shocked with huge amounts of unemployment. I thought it was really interesting to have these two. Ceo's come together and say well wait a second. I need to really reduce capacity. You may need increase capacity at the same time. And so they tried to create these proxies for Qantas workers to kind of get first priority into Woolworth's hiring and to do it in a seamless as possible. So I thought that was a fantastic example of thinking creatively about this very odd moment wherein were capacity is both being cut but also be increased places super interesting. I saw something very similar. A GROCERY STORE CHAIN TEXAS. And on the one hand they have so many more customers who buy larger quantities also and that really strained supply chain. And then you have so many supply chains that have a lot of capacity and they were also just like you described. They were ingenious. At SIGNING UP DRIVERS FROM COMPANIES. That didn't have all that much work and reassigned to routes into stores that needed extra supply and I thought as an example of agility. That was just a really beautiful example to see a lot of the people who run these companies. They have a ROLODEX. They had the capacity to pick up the phone and call each other. And you see this happening in this country where you have CEOS calling each other to try to reconfigure their factories to begin to produce medical protective gear or to help the hospital systems in their states. And so you do see behind the scenes. The leadership of a lot of these corporations stepping up and making the phone calls and trying to either help each other or help their state governments in lots of ways that are not necessarily visible. And it's a good example. How close relationships that sort of cut through the usual red tape that make things go much more smoothly than they? Otherwise would these relationships really matter in terms of crises young? What did you observe? What did she see okay? So you can't help but manage your way through this crisis without paying attention to zoom. Yes of course. This has got to be one of the greatest branding achievements in recent memory. Zoom went from being a piece of business software to a consumer household name seemingly overnight. It's kind of amazing. It's now a verb even among teenagers a little bit of background prior to the Crisis Zuma's already on a very successful path. It went public about a year ago and it was one of the few ideas that did well last year. It's been a profitable company and even before the crisis they were already pretty unusual disruptor in the enterprise space in part because in a market with mature competitors like Cisco's Webex. It was able to come in and steal. Share away not by being innovative. It didn't have a special feature set. Did Not have a fancy interface. It didn't do anything particularly differentiated instead. It just worked better. It failed or far less often. Which is kind of fascinating. Because this is not typically how you went in the enterprise market of so soon was making inroads in this market already just because of better performance and now this crisis hit and they're being flooded with casual users. Everyone from kindergarten teachers to Yoga. Instructors are now using. The number of daily users has gone from ten million at the beginning of this year just a couple months ago to more than two hundred million day and so the real question is. Is this going to translate into sustainable business success? I'll just say two things that have really stood out to me one is. They have handled the unexpected surge in traffic. Stunningly loves to go to twenty X amount of traffic. Do you had the day before and be able to manage. Traffic is really pretty amazing. The second thing I'll say is that with a high profile comes. A lot more scrutiny. So there's dealing with a lot of privacy issues encryption questions security questions and they're also dealing with things like zoom bombing and bad behavior and I think the jury is still out on whether or not they're going to be able to manage that piece of it but it is right now one of the most interesting companies to keep an eye on. What do you guys think? What has been your assessment of their performance. And what do you predict for these guys going forward? One of the things that I really liked about arrogant CEO is when all of this criticism came up all my God. You're routing some of your traffic through China all my God. All of a sudden we have people who join meetings and they shouldn't be there and there's all of these issues. I cannot remember a CEO who own these issues quite the way he did like finally as CEO who said look. We went in with all good intentions and he made a series of reasonable claims. How these good intentions in the face of this really unprecedented growth then led to really serious problems. And how he himself as a person was touched by these issues and it did not feel corporate at all his response. And so I was almost more enamored to zoom than I. I've I've loved him for quite some time. But I thought it's one of these instances where we might look back and say the way they handled the crisis actually helped solidify the strength of the company. Marketplace's that's interesting. Yeah I guess the two angles on the thing the first angle on it is just the kind of remarkable valuation story right so it has now mushroomed to forty billion dollars back down to thirty billion dollars and it's interesting because it's become a stock and there are a few stocks like this. Which are they're kind of trades? You know which is like if you wanna go long something when your current viruses going. It's like Tele Doc zoom taken on its own life in that way desert piece that really strikes me about it. Is You know they have these competitors like Google meat and Microsoft teams but they were just lying inside. Microsoft and Google being underutilized. And I think one of the interesting things about this is whether now we're gonNA see Google and Microsoft. Take those products out in a stronger way and then the issue of competition might become more severe. So I don't know I think it's a super fascinating story young me just like you said it's kind of like the company of the moment. There's this short term and then there's a longer term in the short term what they're doing to address some of the more acute questions about whether or not it's a safe platform to us. I think are going to be really critical to Felix's point. It's been impressive. How they have responded. They've institute of full feature freeze which means they are freezing all innovation in order to make sure the core functionality remains robust and they address the security and privacy concerns so they've communicated that this is priority number one and then the question is what's going to happen over the longer term a lot of the recent surge in the traffic is consumer usage in my guess as many of those are using the free version of the service and so the question is what's going to happen to that but then there's also a lot of companies that continued to rely on video conferencing in real probably do so for months and months and months and months. And what's interesting here? Is the opportunity to dramatically shorten the sale cycle and this is the counterpoint. To what you were saint here typically for a company like zoom to get into these big legacy companies. That's right the sales cycle. It takes months big company to adopt a new piece of software that because of the covert situation because zoom is so easy for people to heavily sample in a very short period of time. There is a real opportunity for it to make some inroads among companies that would normally take years to penetrate. So it'll be interesting to see how much conversion they actually get but anyway that's the one. I'm really keeping my eye on. And then feeling she must have brought into company as well. What's your company? It's actually a super interesting organization. And THAT IS CHEF. Jose Andres who has lots of restaurants in DC in New York? He asserted actually a while back. He has started this nonprofit that is called world central kitchen and every big catastrophe that you have seen in the past couple of years. They are always there and they're always feeding people and they're cutting through red tape. There are making use of local resources. It's often furloughed restaurant. Workers that are local. Its local supply chains and they're bringing food to distress communities. I love that guy. That work is just spectacular. I mean he is like as a person also really just want to hug him. I was thinking so typical win member to controversy with it they would let that cruise ship dock in San Francisco and of course it ended up after much back and forth. Finally Khun Doc who else is right there with a tent with worm food. Of course it's world central kitchen and one of the things that I find interesting. Is you see lots of responses to the current crisis right so even eleven Madison Park. Like probably New York's best restaurant. They have turned their kitchen into a commissary kitchen. They're preparing about two thousand meals a day mostly for hospitals. But it takes weeks But I really love about Jose. It's always there. This is one of the things I hope. Lots of companies. Lots of people will think about what is our ability to create capacity to respond to catastrophes where we don't have to invent things from scratch I think one of the legacies of the crisis will be that there is so much more capacity and if we can maintain it if we can internationally deployed the way he does it. That's actually a really amazing and beautiful thing to do the thing that always amazes me about him as with the Puerto Rico situation in other situations is he not only does this but he does it at scale I mean he gets up to like fifty thousand one hundred thousand meals from zero in like a few days in credit. It's almost like a case study of like how do you create that kind of capacity at scale so quickly in these areas and there's such a leadership component here. He not only manages to it. You manages to publicize it in a way. That doesn't seem self promoting. It's never about him. It's always about the work that's being done. It's always about the food that's being provided it's always about. The local communities are trying to help. It's really amazing to see him. Communicate what he's doing and it becomes really infectious. You Watch it and you're so caught up in the passion and by the way the food looks amazing. It's just wonderful here. You wanted us to talk about breakout phenomena the breakout hits so obviously it's a very somber time but there have been these things that have just sparked imagination at a time when we're all spent a lot of time at home and I'm curious what. The big breakout phenomenons of Kovic. Nineteen have been for you. So what's really struck? You and what is caught your attention young me so it's like. I woke up one morning and suddenly my social media feed is filled with photos of sour dough bread baking so true and I found this to be really fascinating so the next time I was in the supermarket I went to the baking. I'll and I discovered that that entire I'll is just decimate is fine. Lower the price of eggs. Notice this. You must have your stand mixer so the other thing that I find so funny about the breadth breaking is if you're a novice at making bread don't start with sour dough. That's a really hard thing to do. That's the save this guy. That intuition cooked Turkey on Thanksgiving is a really difficult. Iss- to get right with white bread like do something simple. Don't start with sour dough simpler because I have a full house right now so I bake brownies the other day which are not that yes really hard to Brown. It's the kind of thing that I'd never normally do. So there you go thank you to leary's how it varies internationally. In Europe there's a spike in demand for fresh vegetables. All you need to know that's my Felix your turn so you know how usually they select a person of the year and sometimes it's not really a person sometimes. It's a computer or something else. I think this year is going to be the year of statistics. I have not seen as many people trying to understand curves ever in my life and it's Hilarious to me in particular to politicians log rhythmic scale gale mild attention during statistics class. You have amazing advantage if I can highlight. That's one organization. I think that has done an amazing job. I don't know if you've seen the Reuters reporting on the Korean clusters so they have these graphs which are just beautiful beautiful so patient number one patient number two patient number three and you see how many other people they infected and then how the infection literally spreads if you look at the graph it is just amazing and it shows you things like patient thirty one infected one thousand one hundred sixty contacts in. Korea government followed up with every single one of late. Isn't that amazing to include that link? That's we'll do that so I have a somewhat related one which is one form of data visualization of courses the kind of statistics. You're talking about Felix the one that I've gotten really attracted to is satellite images of economic activity during this corona virus and of environmental emissions and even just aerial photography of places that were once highly concentrated and now are empty but these kinds of visual representations of the slowdown of economic activity. I think are so powerful there many of these but if you look at emissions over China or the United States at times when the slowdowns and lockdowns were announced you can literally visualize what has happened during that time. The aerial photography of Saint Peter's Square on a Sunday mass or even some internal photography like Grand Central Station. These really highly concentrated areas which are now empty. There's actually almost a beauty to it. It's of course very striking and in some ways painful to look at but it's also just beautiful to see these empty spaces that we've never seen empty before both a combination of all kinds of aerial photography and satellite images. I have just been consuming left right and center and loving them. I wasn't a bike ride yesterday. And I rode through downtown Manhattan and then China Town and is so strange that there wasn't a single person out and it's exactly what you said like these places are always crowded. There's always so many almost feel like you're in a movie set a little beautiful and it's sad but there is thirty three yeah. Do you have another one? Well I mean it's interesting so Felix logarithmic scales and then you did satellite imagery of emissions. And I'm GonNa do animal crossing. Okay backtrack video gaming. Obviously doing incredibly well right now as you can imagine as a that. Animal crossing this thing has become an absolute phenomenon among people who are not the two of you. That's right so I actually read the description. Who would want to play? This is spending not a lot of time but as small show because I'm not GonNa pay fortnight and so it's the kind of thing where you can dabble a little bit. It's very easiest varies very good. Very good I have one. That actually astounds me and that is the type of advertising. That seems completely irresponsible to the moment that I'm watching a news program in the evening and I would say two out of the three nights there is an ad for cruises you and then people's dreams is to travel to Italy into this. Seems like what are you thinking? How difficult must be to change out these air? You know the world we live in at this moment in time and apparently these companies don't do you know so on that topic of tone down. I think it is amazing to see not just companies being toned up but the ones. I really enjoy our celebrities. Who are tone deaf so there have been a couple of these kinds of fantastic. One of course was David Geffen. Who is the billionaire record executive so he posted on Instagram? He posted isolated in the Grenadines avoiding the virus. I'm hoping everybody is staying safe. And it was a picture of his four hundred and fifty four foot ship and it was just absolutely astounding kind of sense of disconnection with reality for what most people's lives are like related. One was this Gal gadoe video that she put together of imagined the song which was so bad musically so so bad and you know it springs from a place possibly right but ended up being so bad and so kind of self indulgent like celebrities. Going tone-deaf at this moment to be kind of hilarious. There's been good though right. Yeah well who do you think is cotton at right? I mean Tom. Hanks Rita Wilson in their posts. They're always so good. But who do you think of as getting it really works? I mean everybody should follow. Yo Yo Ma yes musical interlude. So you do see these little moments of just hitting exactly the right and even the ones that start out terrible because people will make fun of them and so you see whenever a celebrity you know not the best appearance in their life. Sure enough like five minutes later. You have like eighteen copies on tick tock where? People's Oh and I cannot get my pool boy to fix the pool hotair pandemic. I hope it will end soon. There's so much demand for humor now because of the situation. We're in so action comedies. Spencer confidential most. Watch movie on Netflix or about two weeks. Even though it's terrible I think robin tomato rating something like minus eighteen and piddle. Don't care hoping each for just a little bit of Comic Relief Anything Funny. Anything that makes you laugh super high demand. Yeah so here's one that I find utterly wilderness and I don't even have anything to say about it and I need some insight but apparently dating APP activity is up so just explain. I understand. Yeah totally understand bit. You can't meet anyone but low commitment browsing. Yeah I think that's impart the point right. Oh I'm so interesting I would love to meet you if only not sure where this conversation do. You have another one. I don't know what to say me here because Peleton appears to be more popular than ever chatter. Going to leave it right there and we'll talk in twelve months. Okay thanks Helix. Did you bring in a recommendation? I did and it's an organization that I would like to recommend they're called just capital and it's an organization that ranks corporate America. It's usually the one hundred largest companies and typically they would ask. What are the concerns that you have about industry? What other kinds of things that you would like to see? Companies to how important is it and then they create rankings now during the pandemic they have slightly changed our approach and in part what they do is that they document in quite some detail. How companies have responded to the crisis so in how many companies is true that the CEO took a pay cut or gave up all of his pay. For how many companies is it true that they extend that specific protections for their employees? And you can see all of the corporate sponsors along with traditional ranking which isn't really interesting way to get a sense of just how different these responses So I really love to work that. Just capital dozen general and. I think it's particularly relevant particularly interesting now. That's fantastic allentown fascinating but it also sounds like one of those things where you can go down the rabbit hole. Oh yes so now that we all have time five hours later. Okay so here will so I have a book? I think at these times you know. I tried to read a book about Spanish flu and it was way too depressing and so I decided instead to kind of educate myself about a topic that I know nothing which is viruses and viruses are completely fascinating and I've actually endorsed one of those guys books before. Which is the tangled tree and his name is David Common but he had written a bull. Here remember yeah. He had written a book like eight years ago. About what are called zoonotic viruses viruses that move from animals to humans and it's called spillover and it's wonderful to read in a way because it is not immersed in the world of Co vid right but it is about the phenomenon about viruses and there is something that's just amazing about these things that are not really alive because they live only with the help of others and the way they spread and that whole world honestly something I didn't know much about and I just found it absolutely fascinating so if you're looking to get educated about that the really good one. I think is spillover by David Common. You Know The new Yorker recently had this article by Caroline. Korman called from bats to human lungs. Ho I read that yes. Oh God was good too. It's almost sort of a forensic tracing this corona virus It was just fascinating to also read about how bats because of their adult physiology viruses are able to grow in them and become really quite dangerous. being benign for bats. And we don't even really know why bats are often the originators of so many. The other thing that I thought was so interesting the New Yorker story is how once virus jump from a bats to humans are bats to other animals how they then adjust because they live in a different organism. So even looking back you can never really quite figure out the path and as a result there are multiple theories how to corona virus for instance when perhaps from bats to humans but we will probably never know part of the reason why this stuff is so fascinating to read. Is it reads like detective novel trying to solve these mysteries. It's so fascinating okay. So my actual recommendation is. I think I might have even recommended this organization before but this is a more specific version of that prior recommendation. So one of my favorite charities is a charity called donors choose dot. Org In enables you to donate to teachers and so a lot of public school teachers in this country. They actually pay for supplies out of their own pocket because their schools are underfunded so there are always just looking for ways to raise money. What's happened now? That school's of all shutdown is that there are huge disparities in the ability for students to participate in online learning for example if they don't have a laptop and so if you go into donors choose you'll find a lot of teachers now requesting help and being able to purchase technology for students who are spending remotely and don't have the capacity to do that so if you feel like contributing to that 'cause it's a super super easy way to do it Donors CHOOSE DOT ORG. Go Out and support teachers and their students who are trying to continue their learning even during this shutdown. Great recommendation does Selena. Said that's it for this week we will be back next week. Thanks everyone for listening. This is after hours. Hp OUR PODCAST network.

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Episode 160: Meme History

PodcastDetroit.com

33:08 min | 8 months ago

Episode 160: Meme History

"You're listening to the PODCAST DETROIT network visit. WW DOT PODCAST DETROIT DOT com for more information the views and opinions expressed on this. This show do not necessarily represent those of the network. Its advertisers owners or sponsors. Welcome to shot of history. Welcome back to China history. I'm Stephanie. I'm the Coleman big if I'm Kelvin. I'm Ki Oh sorry human early there. Yeah so excited about being here interrupted. I'm Calvin Dave you're better off night. Also is a replica. Because he went camping. Yeah he did back body Eddie snatched. You don't come back as herself. I didn't go camping. I wouldn't go ahead why I had television. I had a stone. So you're saying is I was bullshit I went in. I basically lived in a trip to your house up there with you. I wonder if you know some of the some of the lower class I will lose. Oh camping My my wife will not I will take her glancing. They've opened opened up a new lamp Michigan. I would do it. No no no. It's it's the only kind of camping. Do still in your right now is that the places has the like yours that yeah essentially yeah and Wifi running water and all that stuff. It's hotel in the woods the idea of roughing. It is not staying on the country. Yeah I just don't know continental breakfast. Kiss my yeah yeah yeah so today. We're GONNA talk about the history of the meme we know. It's very exciting but before we do that as we always do it is time for our shot and we're doing some a Woodford reserve while not all of us need cal doing maker six ear forty-six going straight to the bloody Mary. I know at very far idea but you got a lot going on your pledge. You Cheers Norma with with a Labatt with a PBR chaser. Sorry all right. Alison I got you know. Go go high class and then bring it down. I gotta take it out again just home camping trailer. Pardon people exactly all right so the history of the. I'M GONNA go with the origin of the word I because beard and of course it's from You know Greek because a lot of stuff that a lot of our words come from its Greek for funny cat picture. Ah No big lights the grease loved me. I mean they were all over that shit. Yeah I mean angry. Cat is not so much spartans. Spartans no sense of humor the Greeks man send those news every day. Yeah so the word. meam is the shortening of the Greek word word. Mammy may which means in both can't even read my type. It's not even my handwriting. Yeah I can read Greek. Reed it now. This is plain English struggle. Struggle boss. This morning Yes I am okay so far what we've all been there Okay so imitated thing. That's what that word means imitation which we all know what like we know what Internet memes are or now so also the I would assume these same love mimeograph. Yes Sir give me any word I show you how it come from the original Greek Kimono Anyway. Great movie sorry now worries. We're we're here shooting shooting the Shit and drinking big Fat Greek wedding and it's a fantastic movie. I watched it and I don't really remember it. Every word really does come from Greek or Latin. It's ridiculous so the word that Dave sent mimeograph. Whatever it's literally from the Greek weird like that? So we have Richard DOC INS to blame. We haven't to blame for the word. Beam Atheists Richard Dawkins in nineteen eighteen. Seventy six he wrote a book called the Selfish Gene. And it's where the word mean came from. There's actually a whole theory. MEMED MM-HMM Theory. I don't know if you've ever heard of that. No Beam theory like is is there the big mean clearly you create one and two more a yeah well they use the word name because it rhymes gene. And it's like the whole you know dominant trait you know non-trade thing and it's basically they used. How information can travel like an and grow kind of like the same as jeans? Go right all that fun stuff so it's kind of like that. This is where it all came from. I'm getting we're GONNA get deep and then we're going to have fun between the and this is super in its owner Ernie okay so he coined a term because he was trying to figure out whether there was a measurable unit describing how ideas spread rod and how they propagated through generations. Words like if you look at the dictionary like we keep adding words to it that awesome good so bad like hello like what the Fox says right but now it wasn't a word it's definitely currently Evolving just like everything else does so kind of the idea behind the high neem theory So it spreads from person to person within a culture or now that we have the Internet like of the world It's mostly we just the transfer of information and how it grows. There's I have like a shit notes but I really don't WanNa read all of the really want to hear all of this interesting land fashion really interesting. If you're not gonna read them. Just give me the notes when this show is done I will. They're going in the trash otherwise so I am going to ruin memes for people. Cool me speaking of name theory. What yeah ancient Greek the ancient Greek minute? So would that also be the same route as Mimosa. ooh that's that's how alcohol the reds throughout a person's not how an idea spreads from person to person hot. I always champagne a home to make Melissa's always you. Yeah I'm fancy fancy. Here's an orange juice. But he has champagne. I have mimosas without orange juice. hold the orange juice. I'm champing. Okay no meaning like I'm looking through it to like kind of I dig through all the big words so all I know is there was a phenomenal. All South Park episode about the spreading of memes and it was the whole The kind of what was the three approved. MEMES were Fonzie knows peacein. Bunny ears. Fake leaner those. Those are the three approved me and they had like an eighties like an old eighty s like public service announcement. No you kids today. Don't understand what you're really doing when you're spreading memes and doing the stuff and you know what's interesting about this is i Google I google this while we're while we're sitting here I had no idea that means were they fall under anthropology On it makes sense. Yeah it makes sense because if you don't think about it 'cause you're just sending that cat picture we think memes are nice pictures. That's but that's not it. I mean a mean is a cultural cultural. Bit Information. There are Cave paintings that are considered memes. Because they've showed up and like other places like actually let me flick through. I know I actually have some of this in here. mm-hmm oh yeah okay. So they have been around since like seventy nine eighty it. Yeah so I don't know how to pronounce us but we're just going to go with that This sator square is a pound room which we all know it reads glad mom RACECAR YEP re divider Bob Racecar Bob. My Favorite Gentlemen Bob. That's a good one. Okay got so. It's a hate this. I hate this so much. Why did I choose to read that part? This is a great episode of All Time Seder. I'm gonNA take a picture. Tenant Opera Road tests in devil feet. There is liquor One on on top of the next so phrase phrase. arapahoe tenant Opera Rotas David. Yeah assume you're reading in Latin is the kind of direction that they give you like. I'm not I'm not reading this I to read this like an American. Yeah thank you for doing that because I just would have been like yeah so anyway compelling drums were the original memes. Apparently okay nine eighty. That's when it all started and well there's a difference between if you look at the definition of me. It's not just it's not just a a cat photo that you share with everyone There's a definition for an Internet. MEME which is a concept that spreads rapidly from person to person via or via depending on how you WanNa say it The Internet is actually the correct way of saying it or you know via via is Latin and means way I mean Greek and Latin. The adult Rosa. It's literally the street. The street viaduct. It's the way the water C. N. I.. Anyhow anyhow and we're learning you you know what the first Internet meme was a peace sign. Bunny ears fake Weiner. I do you say I'm going to be like yes. I did know that. But it's on tip of my tongue but at the moment because he asked question. I don't know if you guys remember the dancing baby. Yes okay okay. Yeah the first official first official meme interesting okay is it also doesn't also hold the space of being technically the first viral video yuccas alienated Jeff. Right okay all right. Thank you for saying Jeff. Because I didn't know it the Nosey Gigs Choose Jif Jeff Okay. All right cool and Stephanie chooses gift. You're you can be wrong that's fine. I know camping wrong. I don't feel bad about it. Yeah they've got him actually. I didn't even know that that was an animated shift back in the day like that might have been like eight. The a quick time movie that was floating around if I recall correctly a quick time. Yeah I remember remember quicktime member man. But I'm adequate member dairies and Real player and Realplayer Mitch. Farmer members pepperidge farm remembers when it was the I remember me I feel like I should take pictures. Isn't tire episode. And then have people mean them. Oh so fun fact fun fact I got married and I started crying when I saw my wife coming down the aisle L.. Dave takes a picture that he didn't take a picture of that. Shit I posted I posted photos of it. Took it off the Internet and said meam this and he kept sending me. I really really mean me. They were they were really mean. They were accurate. They were accurate. But I mean I can't even repeat get them because it would give away too much about my life but I'm just saying they were super mean. I'm sure I still have the right. We'll share them with the clock. Yeah he didn't he didn't let me I. I love those pretty fucking funny fun of anybody. I WANNA laugh. They are very if you if you know about my life life. It makes them that much funnier but anyhow so yeah the first time name team or the Mo- makes sense. The first thing that went viral was Dan baby creepiest faulk. Do you guys from at that time of Baggy Pants Flannel and the Goo goo dolls. The year was nineteen ninety. Six are nascent exploration into World Wide Web was about to get super weird and the first ever ever viral sensation of a baby. Doing the cha-cha terrible. We've we've had nearly two decades to let CGI nation grow up. Since the I G I got shot. Its way into our hearts or freak out depending on your views about it but the shared connection action. We all have is that first. Dancing baby still remains God. Thank you he. He went right into his like Dave actor voice anymore. It's a good game. Just this guy this world in a world. The dancing baby stands alone to the hamster down. Oh yeah that okay. It's so uptight you bet your bedroom bedroom. Badger Badger Badger Badger. Oh Yeah I was like what what's going on here. We're passing the the heavy heavy bottle drink. Woodford around getting lighter and lighter hamster dance was another really popular to do. We can not to be confused with the hammer dance which is also kind of a popular and hammer pants. O had had her fans. If you didn't have hair talk to you all your for those born after that hammer pants were him. They were definitely. I mean they spread throughout the culture. That's for Damn share. They did like wildfire. Does Bolo Tamdan. Hurt Him Eh Getting real deep. It's it's getting real deep so anyway. The hamster dance. I it came. There was like a to friends who are like. Oh let's see who's like going to post something and let's see like who's gets like bigger I and F I. They look like because they were like sitting right next to each other but anyway I see boobs everywhere. So do I remember this all too. Oh Man I'm so don't turn it up turn it up. Oh that's right it definitely. What are you gonNA live feed through? We're we're getting real here for all you people who don't know what the Hansard answers the far right one out. Whoever they're headed for me they had a giant bucket head? As you said it was a bad thing I know I hear that women I love that fucking Firoz doing here as we were sitting outside smoking dining realizing she's a woman here today in a world. Welcome to hell. We're Steph is the only woman in the next episode IV is going to make you feel super guilty when once we cover all the other topics but continue sign for good gentlemen. There was the hamster dance. That was what it was. Can I still do his voice. Probably Never I was GONNA I was GONNA go. Casey Kasem this week's long distance dedication. No can't do Canadian. I I got too much gravel too much too much temple bar in my throat so so to speak and there is no bar cat. No there's no bark at. I love our cat. There was there was random guy who was trying to tell us that he you just flown in from where Thailand very highly little. Okay so just in case you don't know it is pride month and so we we were at the gays out and then we went next door to the Peterborough got sued by by the way phenomenal fucking food. I love the food at the Chinese food for white people pay way. That's that's what it is not gentrify. How do you how gentrify? PF changs the white people. I love it I love it can sorry. Sorry why people hold my crowd. Yeah right yeah. He's great food. There is actually really really good the first time we went there. We got some like spicy lettuce wraps and then like these spicy spicy vegetable rough. Like we've brought. You would cry if you just took into a single Chinese person now has made in China Town. I don't know if you know that that's what that area is. Yes okay we actually Every now and then we pull up photos and shoot them to John and Petro and like. Hey `member `member `member `member `member `member. Yeah yeah anyhow names that to the me going back to the museums By the way. Just think of your favorite team because at the end ended this show. Everybody has to tell their favorite him. Oh the ones I've made of Calvin taught me like a legitimate ono. Those were legitimate legitimate. It's not that good asked me. That's a good ass. Good ass beam right de yeah. I'm sorry that voice was the you've heard the Bob Snuggie story speaking of me because I thought those were some of my favorite means I ever created was bobby with his lions Jesus Snuggie when he was like Oh yeah come unto me my children know so. Oh yeah so we got we had bobby sluggish As the end but like your voice was just the as we're walking out of Ford field There were like three old black men like just sitting on a stoop and and as we walked by just one of them go damn s a grown man in his snuggie. The French has grown man in his name. I was doing a thing a mean I guess from from mad. TV You can get to number can have it. Can I have it. What's your name Yvonne? It's a French asked name Yvonne. Can I get I can give you my favorite team right now by the way the distracted boyfriend name yeah. That's that's grumpy cat's also good and also most interesting man in the world rest in peace grumpy cat tabby cat died. I am done health by yeah. I know it's bad I'm I'm back. I mean it's really sad. I harder sauce. The cat was. What is the name of Tartar? Sauce also covered the frog with none of my business. Yeah that would kermit with T. raising the surprise Husky dog like I. Oh I don't know that one's funny is the otter that's holding onto like the little stuffed animal. Yes Michael Jordan. Crying confused views math leading confused. Ladies Crying Michael Jordan recently replaced by crying. R Kelly Sorry that you're going to jail but I'm not sorry what's wrong with you. GotTa be with the fist. Lick Success Kid success. Oh Gosh what was it. The girl with the with the House. That's on fire. Yeah right yeah Structure I know and and the fabulous thing about that. I mean it came from it. Came from caves cave paintings. Yes those spiral painting so when something went viral and back in the day it was like two caves two caves have the same thing. And they're like Oh man a huge change my mind. That's a more recent one. I don't like the guy that's attached to the the crowder guy live every listener. Have you ever listen to it. Yeah have dude. He's he's so good. He's brilliant. I disagree with him but I'd love to have my show. Sometimes you say just just the simple fake side barring for a SEC. Because that's what this has been on his his whole thing though and this is why I love him and respect him. It's he doesn't raise his voice. He never yells everybody that he ah everybody that gets into a discussion with him raises their voice screams yells and gets all insane about shit but he just always has even kill just change. He is a fantastic tastic debater. He is a Master S. I will tell you as the as the captain of the debate team in high school in College. Ooh I can tell you. Exactly what techniques using captain. Oh I love the bait out like hey I was throwing my blurred Chris. Yeah why is it GONNA be racial. Why are you guys? But no I mean. It's it's interesting watching him because as I can see exactly what his technique is. The WHO's the other guy. Another considers mantle their argument by being the Com- home even let them get get angry and frustrated and fuck shit up her immigrant girl anyway. Here's another one of the guys and this is why we need video because we're just sitting here and I'm looking at Dave's phone. He's showing nine our top. Say so I just you know we are going to be starting patriot. four-shot of history. We're going to shower scene with just a hand on the door. It's going to be really good. Yeah I shared the wedding means okay. Steamy shower hand slaps fade show the Donald Trump trump me of him opening up Whatever he had signed whatever executive order that that's funny or shower steamy shower our heads lap fade to Steffi Duck Dot com into all of their? There are are a lot of things I believe. There are some things I will never do. I'm play Jeet Loaf but I won't do that. I'm pretty sure the Stephanie Menard one. That's still DEB's hands uh-huh she doesn't seem like she would have a hand that big O.. Morpheus mean the Morpheus told you what if I told you you wait till you also the winter is coming one like brace yourselves your comments about the facebook coming. I love those the Thompson when he dressed up as the guy that was running for president. The too damn high. Okay Look Brian. I'm I'm big fan of Keenan. He's he's been on. SNL Now for a million years is the longest running classmate cast member he is perfect and every symbol. Like you could even say that he's all that That wow ooh come on man spot on getting a round of applause over here thank you thank you for that. I love that thirty. Meanwhile tells over here fuck man. We were team Booker home with Goober Catholic order please fuck man they were teams. Kill who there there. There was a apparently. I don't know was there. There was a little bit of a fallout. I'm next music. Well nobody got time for that mean. Ain't nobody got time for that. Nobody attacked my new favorite. My newest favorite is the woman. That's just like uh-huh squatting going like this something that she can't believe out here Face Palm Cat Captain Picard the car. All the face off as the doctor evil is always. I'm just going to. I have one drink exhibit. The Yo dog ones dog names dog dog is Dude Dude Pun. Dog Is the source of all dad. I it seems that you can mean me. Oh yeah I like a hard. You like facebook when we made a facebook on the facebook facebook. I heard you like car so we put a call in your car so you could drive while you drive. Ah Speaking of exhibit Did you hear that boondocks is coming back. Yeah I'm a big. I'm a big proponent of that back and people at the writer was racist and he's he's a black man and they're like you're racist against black people. Oh do I remember that. I remember that. That was the dumbest. That's not a thing. No it actually is a thing on Jerry Springer. I'm saying that the author was like yeah. That's not a thing. Have you seen my I show. Have you actually watched my show. I feel like the people that were calling him. Racist were White hipsters drinking craft beer and BB. Our guest Gastineau racist nope angry white girl twenty-five and she's just like Shit. I'd like to speak to the manager manager haircut. Oh no she looks like a hippie she kinda smells like that girl. I'm learning again. I loved that me to back to Morpheus. Here's here's here's Morpheus me. What if I told you that if I told you it says what if I told you the line what if I told you was never spoken the Matrix? It's not actually in the movie dude food. That's interesting now ninety movie anyhow. No what is what's the word for the things that we I think that we hear all the Mandela asked stain bears. Yeah they did it with the Kazan movie or whatever Sinbad was in was in a movie as a gene and it doesn't exist and the funny thing is I swear to God I remember that. Oh I don't be too nice then in Colorado are made like just be. That's funny that's an IT Steph. I'm so sorry this episode like this is exactly. How mean like you're supposed to be at work doing something then you feel like we should just like scrap this and like and let you start over actually read electric blue? Because they do this for women's suffrage the Fridge back on women's suffrage take threes. Right we should all we we we all want and woman suffrage kind of what the Hell's the Mandela effect would be like a really phenomenal. I'M GONNA episode. I think I think we talked about it on. We've we've talked about it on several episodes we talked about it on your show. Yeah we should definitely cover that the future episodes and I think we're getting close to that time to at that time to pop the plugs. Well I I can do that. Yeah eat papa to play where we get too far. My favorite meal is the Fat Asian Kid on the phone food. I mean Hello this is Doug Yeah like. That's the dog on the phone and then when people merged it with the other dog on the phone I love this dog this time. Listen dog means yeah great You know FAULK Steve. I've got nothing moxie got nothing I would like to say thank you to source point price for being awesome. This the name are fantastic. Thank you I appreciate the No. It's not anybody I actually genuinely like these people. I mean what I'm also Stephanie. MANAR DOT COM for. If are you paying out all of your Stephanie. You're up cal all right well. Seven point two tours when I have time for it now because as I got a big job which takes away from being able to do all the doors I wanNA do blossom point two tours seven tours dot com and of of course my own podcast leading questions will cover more which relaunches tonight at at the time of this recording. I'll be recording for the first time in like two months. I excited coming back. I'm definitely going to actually be on your show. This time awesome and my brother. My brother is in town from Africa and he will actually be on the show. He's been on the show on on the phone but now he's actually here in the state staying at my home for a couple of weeks and he'll be on the show live in studio tonight so I'm really excited about that. So yes some point two tours and then also leading questions Calvin more awesome. That we're all looking to you. Dave Yeah podcast a trade all the things all the places. This is an area double bar. He's a good man. Everybody loves Larry. Leary something's wrong all right until next time. Stephanie on McCoy Remember Dove Kelvin. And I'm Chevy Chase in your not.

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Chinatown

Unspooled

1:34:38 hr | 1 year ago

Chinatown

"People. Are you struggling for the perfect vacation house? Well, struggle no longer. Because now there is verbal Bourbeau is going to blow your mind. It finds you your perfect vacation house is your perfect bacon. House. My perfect vacation s. No doesn't have to be. Okay. You tell them what you want and they match you with the perfect place. You want a place with a hot tub? You wanna place the grill you wanna place? It's kid-friendly. They've got it. All they do the matching for you every single time. So search VR B oh in the app store today and download the Virgo app and put a stop to frustrating vacation searches. Let Virgo find a home that matches you while there is a new podcast out. That is about something. I have been fascinated about forever. And I am so excited. It is called running from cops you ops yet. But they show cops this show does what I've always been curious about, you know, cops was the TV show that would film the worst days of people's eyes. They build themselves and the cops who sort of. Chase after them. Tackle them yell at them scream at them. It was on forever. It is still on forever in in these decades. Now, it's been on TV. I've always been curious how much this cop show in our daily lives has affected people. How how it affects a we think about cops. How it affects hops think of themselves like what has cops done to our national psyche. Well, running from cops is the show that explains what cops has done to the American break where you could tell me what do they do what hosts Dan Turkey is out to try to understand is has this intimate. Rough look into the criminal Justice system shaped the criminal Justice system. And that is the question is after has it shaped think of the police, and has it shaped the way think of criminals, but even more importantly, he tracks down the people that were arrested on the show, Amy like he literally goes finds them and goes, what was your side of the story. And think about that, you know, cops was huge before the internet people of their on cops. And you knew them this is a public humiliation. So we get to kind of. Here. The other side of the story. This is the perfect show. You can listen and subscribe to running from cops right now and your podcast app. It's nineteen seventy four and Los Angeles is thirsty for water and blood the movie Chinatown. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the schooled. I am Paul Scheer Nicholson, and this is the podcast every single week. We look at the af is top one hundred films of all time, the two thousand seven edition and find out if they really are as good as people say and how they've influenced the filmmakers of today. Amy last week. We saw the treasure of the Sierra Madre, and our listeners voted overwhelmingly to keep this movie on the af I list surprise surprise. That makes me happy. This movie was such a fun watch. It was so fun. And we got a bunch of really interesting comments. You know, what I wanted to start off with one that I saw here from Michael arrow would who said that the prospector from Toy Story. I believe to was based so clearly on Walter Huston's character from this film the treasure of the Sierra Madre. And now that I've seen it. I'm like, oh, yeah. They're almost identical characters. I love it. I love it. When you really get to making context because you finally see the origin stole had never occurred to me before either. Which makes me think Disney the Disney ish, do you think all that the goal dust that sweeps through the end of this movie is feno San? Keep an endgame. I like that never expect a superhero reference from you, Amy. I liked that a lot you think that that's? You think that that's? You think that that's like old ashes of like Black Panther or like Spiderman just going by? Hey, amy. I wanted to bring up another comment that someone brought up. This is from uncle dirt nap. They were upset that Leonard Maltin wouldn't include the big sleep in his top three best Bogart films. Do you where do you fall in the big sleep? That's interesting. I mean, I just got back from the league in San Francisco, we were just New Orleans outlet, right? Like we went to the bar the Maltese felt like the Maltese falcon buyer. He's like outer sandwich in the middle of the night. Oh, yeah. Went there a MARTINI. I mean, there's there's maybe there's too much bigger in the world. But I would like to see somebody. Look, let them on face to face and say, you got this wrong. You gotta challenge mutton. So I mean this week we're talking about Chinatown, and we ask people to call in and say forget it Jake. It's blank. And I know that you and I have been on a text chain. And we've sent a couple of funny towns to us we've seen forget it Jake. It's what was a picture of the New Orleans city when I was in San Francisco sent you a place a picture of a sign that said China town kites. Forget it Jake. It's Chinatown kites finale. Are your version of this? Unforgettable line. Forget it guy. It's labor town. It's kokomo. Forget it Jake it Sesame Street. Forget it Jake. The trader Joe's parking lot. Get a juice flavor town. Forget about it takes its dollywood. Forget eddie. It's Toontown keeping weird Jake. It's pasta. Forget it. Jake. It's flavor town. Forget it Jake. It's Branson, Missouri. Forget it Jake. It's petticoat junction. Forget it Jake. It's kankakee. Forget it here. It's flavor town. Forget it Jake. It's the premise of the film memento. Forget it Jake. It's the spiders forget it Jake. It's supposedly guacamole cost extra. I need to save the flavor town because I don't know if you know, this my best friend is on a quest it every single guy fairy restaurant. She's taking me. She's trying to she started. I love you, sweetie. Doing that own my God. All right. Yeah. There's a pantley when that's on the cruise ships. It's like the floating island and Super Mario three. So I would say either forget about it. It is just flavor town. I mean flavor town guy Fieri literally dozens of people using the flavor town. I mean to shocking degree guy Fieri his reach knows, no bounds. I would watch this movie. I would watch him with guy Fieri. Griller through the streets of Chinatown grilling, by the way. I mean, why not I mean, I'm I'm in national geographic's getting into movies. Now, why not have the food network start to do their own, you know, feature films. Like, let's get Ryan Murphy up in here doing a Chinatown with guy Fieri, please make that poster someone that's listened to this show. Also, speaking of great people who listen to the show, I wanna thank Kate Littleton and all the people in our Facebook group for helping us get together some information we wanted to update our website a little bit and include all the films that we have mentioned that we wanted on the list, but aren't currently on the list. And now we have an updated list because of you you went back and listen to all the episodes. You also help us determine all the films that we thought should be on the list and the films that we didn't think should be on those. So when we can put together a really comprehensive fiftieth recap show. So thank you to everybody in our Facebook group for doing that, we appreciate you. So so much and thank you Kate. For kind of keeping track of everything we really appreciate we really do and also sentimental vibes to Kate this week. She's moving from Germany to the state. Oh, very exciting and a happy birthday to someone who's in our movie this week. That's right. Jack Nicholson turns eighty two this week. He is a star of Chinatown and Amy. What are you saying you want to get into it? Yeah. You know? It's fascinating is that means Jack Nicholson was born in nineteen thirty seven which means he was born two year of this movie. Oh, wow. I love it. All right. Let's say that fact in more for right now. So it's Chinatown week. I think I'm speaking probably you nervous about this. Honestly, this this is an episode where we can't help, but really get into a big conversation about art and the artist and separating the two and win to Kenai somebody on a list, and when not to and and a lot of it. I mean, so maybe we should just start by saying that we're going to be like hashing this out in plain sight figuring out ourselves as you talk. And maybe we should start start start by just kind of talking about the facts as anybody knows them, which sink pretty clear cut five women to date have accused Roman Polanski of underage sexual assault and rape, most famously plant ski pleaded guilty to statutory raping a thirteen year old girl Samantha gear in nineteen seventy nine, but then fled the country before he was sentenced. Now, the story of the trial is kind of complex extradition requests. And potentially crow judges and. Discretionary plea bargain and a secret off the record meetings. But the whole thing is built around one very simple. Generally, uncontested fact that nineteen seventy seven Roman Polanski fed a thirteen year old girl champagne in quail eggs, and then raped inside of her room plant ski lives freely and France right now, he's eighty four years old. He continues to make movies and win awards with no real consequence to these actions, and really know kind of closing to this case. And I wanna say like, I feel like the most important voice in this is the victim herself. And people are really interested in getting more into this case. She's written a terrific book about it. It's called the girl a life in the shadow of Roman Polanski, and what it is like to be thirteen and suddenly have your life changed forever. Like, she has forever been called this victim. And that's the word. I think she has a lot of issues with it's a really great book. She wrote a few years ago and. I think more than anything I could say about it. I just wanted to say some things that she has said, you know, this is this isn't her words, I am more than sex victim girl tag. The media pinned on me. I offer my story now with outrage, but with purpose to share tail at that in its detail will reclaim my identity. I am not a stick figure. I noted is like to be a woman and a victim in the realist possible way. And she says, you know, how she's wis here. She'd never told anybody about it. Honestly in that. It seemed at the whole world has been telling her whole life shoes, his little slut or his pathetic victim. She wants to be neither she doesn't want to have to pick between his two identities. And somebody did ask her like how she feels about his art. Now, you know, she wrote actually an editorial in the LA times when he was nominated for an Oscar fifteen years ago, and, you know, the gist of it is like she thought it was okay. And she wants him to go to come back to work in LA. And that she feels like the judge robbed both him in her of closure and kept the case going on longer than it should. And from an interview, she said, why would I have an opinion of what others think of Roman Polanski's work loved or hated? It makes no difference in my life. If he never made another film, it wouldn't undo it happened. I don't want revenge to see his career destroyed. Would that help me? I object every time I'm used to protest Roman in. Here's just something. I think is really interesting. She says, but victims don't matter not forty years ago. Not now it's easier to hate certain celebrities in boycott their work as punishment for real or false indiscretions that occurred years ago than it is to help someone now in your city on your block who really needs it. It's lazy. If you ask me in. So she really takes to task is being used as a symbol for more than she's comfortable with or more than she wants to see herself or more than she's lived the life. You know, it's interesting to hear her in her own words. And I think that thing I wrestle with in. This particular instance, is there is some fantastic work here. And it's not of a singular voice like Roman Polanski is the director. He may have had a hand depending on he talked to in the writing of it. But it was, you know, marvelously acted by Dunaway and Jack Nicholson, and and Robert town, and you have all these other people involved, and if we take a film like this off the list, do we invalidate their work by just being associated with someone that is a criminal? And I think that that's the thing I wrestle with NFL. What is so weird about this podcast as how it seems the parallel real life and this week room plans actually asked academy could be reinstated. I thought that he said, no, yes, I appreciate that. Now, I do too. And I feel like it kind of speaks to what we're talking about here. Sort of. He is being penalized for his crimes, and it's it's interesting that. That they held firm with that. I think that that was a really a smart decision. That's interesting asked to be honest. Like, either the hill. I'm surprised he cared. I suppose indeed. I mean, a very complicated person for that reason. It's a movie that I would like to discuss on the show. But I also understand if people are uncomfortable with it. And if you are this is the chance for you to hit stop and enjoy another podcast. We are fine with that. But that's what I that's how I think I feel about it. Yeah. I mean, I think I feel so murky about it. And I think it would feel less Marquis. If there were women on the F, I one hundred list, and so I think that complicates all of this for me. I mean, I do feel that there is a big difference between hiring someone now and celebrating no work now or doing things that put money in their pocket today, you know, and looking at work that was made before then that I think honestly in this case. Seems to expose a lot of how he does think of women supposedly, you know, it kind of feeds into historian ways. I think he wasn't even tipping when he made it, and yeah, I mean when you hear fade Dunaway talk about the process of making this movie, which we'll get into she basically had to create this character on our own. He wasn't really helping her or collaborative. This is her work. Will there's one famous story where she asks what's my motivation to say, this is your motivation is your salary and just kind of walked away they had fights screaming fights where he ripped her hair. And you know, he even gun to Jack Nicholson, where he, you know, through a mop through Jack Nicholson's TV's, a volatile director who has a very agree. Murky criminal past. Yeah. In that paycheck thing isn't away. I think a little of how he openly saw like he says, I think if you times that he did Chinatown for the money. And that I don't want him to take away the people who did this for the passion. Which would definitely be rubber town who was writing about his city a city that he loved very personally, I totally agree. And that's why I think we are going to talk about China town today and getting into it the way we normally do the year is seventy four president, Richard Nixon resigns after the Watergate scandal. The top song is the way we were by Barbra Streisand. The game connect four arrives on the scene. Every goalie in the NHL finally wears a face mask. The post it note is invented as lifeless section. The national speed limit is lowered to fifty five and inflation spirals out of control around the world reaching eleven point three percent in the US and the global recession deepens the top movies included blazing saddles the towering inferno. And of course, today's film Chinatown, which is rated number twenty one on the two thousand and seven list down two points from its nineteen ninety seven rating of nineteen. Amy, tell us who's it? And what's it about Chinatown? It stars Jack Nicholson as JJ Jake Geddes. He is a private investigator. He most mostly focuses and affairs cheating scandals one day. He is told investigate the husband of miss mall Ray by the MRs Hillary herself. He does he exposes the man who is a powerful man in the water department as a cheater. He's believes in the navy leases. He's been set up that wasn't the real wife. The husband is now really dead. What is going on in the city of Los Angeles story that eventually takes him to Chinatown, but you've got fading away as the real MRs Moray, you've got John Huston director we have been talking about a lot here playing. No across you have a bunch of Diane Ladd playing sessions the fake MRs Moulay Roman Polanski himself as man with knife. Who in the most maybe I conked violence in here. Cuts Jack Nicholson's nose, and you've got young who we saw in rock. Gillespie here as currently one of the sad. Sack husbands who has a jerk as well. Yes. And he's the movie kind of opens up on him. But before we even get into the film, would you consider this an war is this a new our picture of talked about this a little bit in the past. Or is this a Neo Noir? I mean, it's it's a lot more sunlit than some of the new is we've seen so much being like, here's some shadows for your baby. I think in a way there's elements of a horror film in this movie. You know, there's there's this creeping ominous presence like this watch of Chinatown. I was thinking about water about the central importance about water about how water is really in every scene in some sort of a creepy way. Even when you can't see it. It's making its presence known imagining that water is basically like the boogeyman of this film. You know, it's it's there in the background and a water cooler when he first meets they don't away in realizes. He's been set up. It's their silently all the time. Like can even just listen to some clips of how water is all over this film. Here's some water when Jack Nicholson goes to the corner and looks at a body, you don't even see it. But there it is reminding you of central importance. Come again. Got drug passed out about them, the riverbed the LA river. All bridge. What's wrong with that? That's not completely dry. Ain't exactly ground damp. Riverbed no matter how south of us who you water. He drummed. You don't even see that letter. You just hear it. Here's some water win Jack Nicholson walks into the murder scene of the fake MRs Moreh trip in from kitchen. You're not seeing what are in any of these shots, by the way. It's all just added in after the fact, then here's my favorite water. There's a bunch of letters. I wanted us like an hour of water clips, this is water from when Jack Nicholson I goes to the mores house in there. He realizes that. They're washing the car without water and the absence of water. The this is a man who's conserving water in his own home for reasons that maybe Kim like more of figure whose intelligent about the use of water, not the guy who would waste water here is all of that interest is strange little sound effect. You cannot escape water water the having it the leaking of it the absence of it. It is everywhere in this film, and it is stalking you. And like you said it's a killer to it is responsible for the death that this whole kind of revolves around. We'll teams like that idea of subtlety is something that was going on throughout the entire film. I would argue that one of the major points settling this film is I think they are trying to capture this idea of forties Noir. Picture, you know, in the in the vein of the Maltese falcon or the big sleep. But yet they don't use voiceover narration that we've talked about in the past record it. They didn't use it. And I think in a weird way it kind of modernizes what we know from enor- mix a little bit smarter and the wants to further that Jerry Goldsmith composed the themes of the film, but he wasn't the original composer, the original composer, Chris. Added a whole entire score fully complete score. And then they decided to replace all of that they gave Jerry Goldsmith two weeks to write a score for the film. And I want to play for you some of the original score, which I think might have been maybe a little too much. So this is from an album called Los Angeles nineteen thirty seven because the original composer felt lambreau was not allowed to ever release it as a Chinatown soundtrack, but they were able to release this album. All right. So here that that feels I wanna say broad, and it's interesting like it gets wacky ego. It gets super wacky. It's very much discordant cacophonous unsettling strange. I like it. But it draws a lot of attention to its well, that's what I felt like if felt like it was like this is a scored felt like not like taxi driver has that that score. We talked about that a lot where it makes you feel unsettled. This feels like it's trying to be noticed more and the texture ever score while unsettling as kind of part of the rhythm of the film and argue that Jerry Goldsmith's score. Listen to his main titles is a little bit more naturalistic. See I feel like here. Just feels. More. Classic more. Traditionally classic actually pop up in a nineteen forties. So yeah, I think the Trumper was told that he was supposed to play the trumpet sexy. But not like, it's good sex. Do you think works? I mean that kind of silent streaky nece, it has it makes me think of the sound of just like watching a car drive by on a lonely street. It's it's unsettling, and I think the scores really interesting because it's not there honestly for a lot of it. This is a really naturalistic film. There's a lot of just like birds chirping and silence and no score it when the score comes in. It's usually kind of dramatic. It's usually Hello here. I am score. Like, here's a moment that actually really liked from the score win win. Jack Nicholson drives to go. Meet John Huston for the first time in Catalina in the music is like, hey, you should be really nervous about whatever's going to happen. You got that tension pounding tick tock tock tick tock. In. Then I love is a little bit of comedy with his name. How do you do? Got a nasty reputation to kids like that John Huston just keep screwing up his name, which like wasn't accident. Like, apparently, John Huston just couldn't get it straight. But it's just the best character detail for rich guy who A doesn't have to care about getting people's names. Right. In is probably doing it just to screw with him. I know that was a mistake. But I also feel like it's true, John Huston's character. What I like about him calling him Mr. gates is there's something about you know, he's a private investigator. And he's getting some information. I don't know. There's a there's gator done. Are you getting your done? Yeah. No. I I think there's something about it. By also think he's playing by their rules. He's not even really an actor, you know. But he's in there. He's he's so good in this film. He plays. It's so good. He plays it without a mustache twirling. But he's so evil. Yeah. I mean, it's really wonderful now, though, you've done African Queen introduc- are moderate just to get delayed stare at his face and be like, you could have been a tremendous actor this whole time if you had wanted to and you watch him. On screen here. And I feel like you see a lot of traces of the man who made serum Madre you have this guy who shows up wandering around dressed a little bit. Like he's been a lot of time south of the border. He's come to a Spanish, he's he's wearing a sash as belts. He is a man who I think really represents old California old Los Angeles as a town that did have a lot of Spanish influence, and you see it in him. Like, he's not like some Yankee who's shown up into town. This is his state any acts like it he dresses like it just the way John Huston. We went to Mexico and came back with an adopted son. And he arguably, I think has one of the best lines in the entire film, which is the as that final confrontation with Jack Nicholson, he says, you know, in the right time in the right place. You'd be amazed at what you're capable of doing believe, very strongly hints. My whole thing about DNA testing. I know you look, Amy, we know we're not going to pin the murder on you because he didn't submit your DNA. But you're now, you're really creating a paper trail by doing this. Or an audio trailers say, but I do believe that in that same scene. He gives us speech. I think sounds a lot like something Humphrey Bogart might have said insurgency, Aaron laundry. This is Jack Nicholson is like you did all of this for some money. Would you need money for? I want you worth. I've no idea how much do you want? I just wanna know what you're worth over ten million. Why are you doing how much better can you eat? What can you buy that? You can already afford the future. Mr. gates the future. Where's the girl? I love it. And you can argue the tension here in this scene is only two great actors going head to head, but the father of Angelica Houston talking to a man who is dating his daughter, and that kind of pushed poll of trying to be respectful, but also kind of getting his face. There seems together are so tension filled, and I can only think that they're real offscreen relationship added to that. Yeah. I mean, I think in a Houston was onset the day that Jack Nicholson and John Huston shot that scene where any stalking about Faye Dunaway here. He's like are you sleeping with my daughter? Can you imagine? How is you're seeing cross from this lion? Jack Nicholson is now becoming a start. He's like becoming one really becoming a leading man in this movie. Like a flat out leading man. There's something about this. Character and John Huston and general he can throw down like he could punch you and you feel like oh John used to could beat up Jack Nicholson. There's no there's no doubt in my mind. Even in the scene where they're facing off at the very end. It's shot in a way where you really clearly see that Houston is a lot bigger than Jack Nicholson. He is massive in the way that he portrays evil. I think is fascinating because he is just confident he's not aggressively voiced, you know, he just says what he wants over over and over again, very gentlemanly. He expects it to happen. And that's terrifying. In this movie kind of goes out of its way to not leave any loose ends. But it leaves you on this feeling of extremely unsatisfied in a way like, you know, like the the bad guys one innocent woman is killed. They're gonna make their money. You have this unsettling feeling as you leave the film? But no thread has left untied. It's all kind of beautifully wrapped up. I mean that. What you discovered there is. I think what makes this film modern. If this film had been made in nineteen thirty seven zero set they couldn't get away with the guy winning the production code was very clear evil must be punished. And it would have ended with at least a happy enough ending like whoever did something bad gets dinged. But Amy owed argue that nineteen seventy four the same thing happened because Robert Evans, one of the happy ending and Roman Polanski didn't shoot it. They were gonna get away. So there is this idea that Polanski film this dark avenue in just really like wrote it out not the darkness of the cinematography. But the darkness of these characters every character, we meet, you know, whether it's like, a the the corner who we heard or, you know, obviously, John Huston even Burt Young's character. Sloppy dirty. Every person lives in the sunny. Bright city is dark. Yeah. I mean, you even say that in Jack Nicholson's costuming he starts this film in this beautiful. Pollick matching cream colored suit three pieces. He's wearing three piece suits Allott, and he is a really put together guy, and you watch him get more and more disheveled, the suits become darker and darker, actually love the detail that like he's wearing this fancy three piece suit when he gets knocked out by the water, and there's something about like if you just been wearing like working men outfits. He was like a real gum shoe type of dressed more like comfort would have been dressed in this part him getting wet doesn't matter as much as a fancy dress man getting wet it adds to like this kind of cringe-worthy disgustingness will what do you think about the choice visually to start off our hero in white? And then make him go to black when he walking into Lexus, but his character arc is. He's going from someone who is just you know, good guy. Great guy, but Lee living pretty easy life. He then he is kind of impassioned to us. To find the truth to bring Justice. Like it's weird that it's that as he goes more on that route his palette becomes darker. Yeah. I mean, one of the choices that I really think is interesting here is actually like the Vert young character because him and discovering that his wife has been cheating on him is what opens the moving and Jack Nicholson is super blase about it. Honestly, he's like don't screw with Venetian. Blinds have a drink move on right? He's very jaded and used to it. And he doesn't have to see what happens next. But it's when he's running around needing help he shows up young sales at the very end of the film, and there's just the briefest glimpse of seeing Burt Young's wife with a black eye. And that's when he sees the consequences for the first time, we see the consequences for the first time like this movie has a consequence to that. Which I which I respect. Well, maybe as you're saying that I'm realizing that when he first talks to the fake Moray. He says to her are, you sure that you want to know the answer to this. You know, basically, let sleeping dogs lie. And that's how he stay. As so clean. He can be in these white suits because he is letting Gaza, but once he starts to get dirty. He literally gets dirty with you know, the the truth. I mean, if he's getting his hands dirty. So we're seeing him literally transform. As someone who actually gives a shit actually pulled a clip of that. I like seeing with the MRs more with the fake one for a couple reasons one because I love how little he cares. You really hear the disaffection in his voice in that scene in too. Because if you're watching this the first time, this is our introduction to miss Moray. You don't know that she's a faker, but there's little giveaways and just like she doesn't sound exactly like how rich woman would sound. She doesn't look exactly like how they don't always does up. They both wear black nets. But like fakeness mall, Ray has feathers and diamonds, and I she's overdoing it and you hear that in the scene too small, right? How do you do Mr. Geddes? Now, what seems to be the problem? My husband. I believe is seeing another woman. No, really. No, really like he does not care doing. And there's this kind of interest in comedy. I think in when you first see Mr. Maura after that he such a mousy little man with Zulu asses. You're like that man is cheating on this woman. Really? And it seems like sort of a joke. And then when you see Faye Dunaway in you're like that minutes cheating on that woman. Then you know, that something is weird and wrong. I think just from the casting of this tiny little mousy, dude. He doesn't even research. That's the actual MS Mullery takes editor phase value. And I think this movie has all these kind of comedy beats because he is kind of a slacker detective in many ways, Doug, if you went to the mores house, he'll be like who's the blonde woman who lives here, if he followed the wife all he'd be like, wait why she live in this like bungalow complex in eggo bark. Yeah. He's just I think taking the paycheck, and you know, there's a line in the film when you fade done away says to him, you know, what did what did you do in Chinatown? He said as little. As possible or something along those lines. And now he's coming to basically realize that his actions have consequences. I it's a blow to his ego that he got fooled. And I think that that's what he's trying to prove at first. And then he actually starts to care. I mean, do you think that he really falls in love with Evelyn, or do you think there's a real connection there? He just wants to protect her because of all the things that he's never done before. I don't think he really falls enough with Evelyn. I mean, there's a scene right after he in Dunaway fall into bed, which by the way, I just gonna wanna flag they're like make outsing. Well, she's fixing the blood on his nose. I just can't imagine a world where girls like I'm gonna make out with this dude with letty knows blood all over my face because that is what would happen. And I wish that there was this deal that was congealed blood. She was like it was there that just wouldn't happen. I just can't I do not believe that your first kiss. If you're like premiss rises Moray would happen with the dude is like, a bleeding everywhere. And if it did I wish that there had been a shot where you get to see the blood all over her face. There's no costs for this. And that man is bleeding everywhere. We'll do you think maybe she's working double indemnity angle on this like, you know, not seducing him, but making him care for her see would buy, and, but we don't really see that side of one of the things about this movie that so interesting like most Noir is our seeing only from his perspective. He's telling us the story. But we're only seeing it from his perspective. So, you know, in a weird way. We don't know what her real motivations. Are. You know, if she believes she can manipulate him into getting her out because I mean, that's what the end of the film is, you know, in in what I think the original intent of the ending was going to be was that he was going to get them out. And I believe that that because like she doesn't seem to need him except for that. Yeah. It doesn't seem like they get along. Very, well, you know, you don't really feel. I think a ton of chemistry between them and actually even after that bedroom seen when they're lying in bed. She's trying to get him to talk a little bit about his past. And he's not that interested in opening up to. So they don't really seem to connect. I think that well, but I think she's putting on a decent show probably to be taken care of. Because when you look at our character, she went from her dad to her dad's partner, isn't she was just under her does partners protection. And now she needs somebody new to protect her because he's dead. Also, kind of reflects interestingly owned on Maure who is a pivotal character in the film. We view him as being what you said earlier like he cares about the water supply and all this stuff. But we also have this guy who is marrying his partner's daughter who must be exponentially younger than him. Like, you know, there's something a little sleazy and weird about that too. I mean is never really brought up that that's a weird thing. But I think you have to acknowledge it's a little bizarre to marry your partner's daughter. Yeah. I mean, unless you already hate your partner, and you're trying to protect her on a strange way. I mean, it is interesting that this is a film where you know, it's. Probably town script is very clear about saying that what happens to her is rape, very, they're they're very very clear about it. And I think there's something kind of unusual in the fact that no across the John Huston. Character never comes out. Nobody actually says out loud that like he might have extra enjoyed murdering alway because he took his daughter. But it's definitely there. It's just you find out about their relationship. So late that I don't think you get the second level of it so much you're talking about water and money and water money. And then you're like, oh, he just straight up also stole this thing that he thought he owned again, not to keep harping on this. It's only from Jack Nicholson's perspective. So we don't get to see the film from anybody else's is it's all the way he's looking at them. And I think in his mind he's not getting into that relationship. He he's more concerned about getting back on top after he was tricked and getting to the bottom of this. You know? Yeah. I mean, he's a defensive guy. Like there's that scene early on when the pictures of Mr. Moore, you're on the front cover, and he is getting his shaving done. I'm always fascinated by men had other people's shave them for the longest time. I've always wanted to do it. It seems to be a blast. And then I'm like, I never met the right beard growth where that would feel. But here listen to the way that he just keeps saying it's an honest living and the way that he says it I feel like he doesn't believe it. Paper quick, I know myself making honest living flesh. This story. This guy who got tired of school us wife, and he sits for an honest living is look clearly he doesn't feel like it's an honest. He used to be a comp we hear how he feels about his entire job when the fake mismile raise their, you know, he's not a good guy. Nutbag? I guy doesn't want to be questioned at all what I think is. So interesting about what ties that scene together the barbershop scene with the next one where we meet MRs Moulay? This is one of the things I really like about just the script is you have this Barbara trying to interrupt this fight being let me tell you this horrible joke, you know, about about Chinese men and in the very next Jack Nicholson is just so excited to tell everybody this joke. It's this kind of like through line that takes you from one moment to the other person. And he's going to protect his secretary from having to hear this joke by sending her away in that comedy of just bursting with the stupid joke as you see Faye. Dunaway emerge from the background and just. Watch him make a fool of himself. I love that scene. It's such a classically comedic moment. Centered around such a problematic joke or not a problem. I think it's in character for the character. And the joke is on him in a way. Yes. Helling such a stupid joke. But then the film views all the Asian characters through lens that is incredibly stereotypical. I mean, this film was even at the time protested by the Asian Americans for fair media had a rally in front of the mass Chinese, and they said under spokesman said that we are appalled by the blatant racism of the movies jokes dismayed to see the same old stereotyped roles for Asian actors portrayed in resentful of the implied comparison of our community with the perverted decadence of the rich white heroes in the film, as I was saying that's really interesting because I think sometimes we think that like only now with distance are we able to see what's problematic and people were. Upset at the time. They are people holding signs that said that this movie is rated racist. Hey, amy. Let's take a break in the show to hear a few words from our sponsors. Are I sponsor obviously, our friends at pod swag who sell are amazing merch. We have a awesome. Awesome unschooled poster that you can check off as you watch the movies on our top one hundred list. It was designed by Scott Campbell. Scott see does these great little watercolors. And if you order the big bonus unspoiled package, you can also get your own Zoe deca he'd drawn. It's a really great fun. Poster of actually looks nights in your house. It's not too big not too small. It's perfect size gorgeous colors. The whole thing the whole thing. Hod swag dot com. We're still working on our shirt, we have to decide on that. That's been hard very hard. But who else is sponsoring the show? Well, I'll tell you. It's our good friends at fracture know, Amy. I know you love fracture. Okay. Love fracture. All right. Tell us a little bit about fracture. All right. So what factored does fractures the site? 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Is that fracture prints are made in Gainesville Florida from Aotearoa source right here in the US and they're green company operating a carbon neutral factory. So visit fracture me dot com slash unschooled. That's fracture me dot com slash unspoiled for a special discount on your first fracture order and don't forget to pick unspoiled in the one question survey after the checkout. There's a lot of things for you to do. But it's helpful to us. If you do all these things that's fracture me dot com slash unspoiled. And make sure you check unschooled in the one question survey after checkout. What's interesting about the history of LA is what a multicultural city. It's always been. And that's one of the things that actually like a about the casting of this movie. Is you see that? This was always such a melting pot of different communities. I mean Chinatown LA, you know, it existed in the late nineteenth century. It's been here forever. You know? It's it's where like Union Station is today, China China do used to be and then they put a whole very street there, and they made a new Chinatown, then they actually made this other thing called China city. Yeah. The woman who made over street people who live in LA, we'll know over street is like kind of imitation Mexican village. It's reminds me of you know, being home and in the woman who built that also built this include China's city where she like took some of the props from the good earth this movie that also came out in like legit 1937, and she put that building there, and they had this like fake Chinatown. But then the real Chinatown was also being built around the same time lex north Trenton wasn't even in V regional script like the -cation of times referenced. But those that Polanski added any he's, you know, we need to we should end the movie in Chinatown, which is so interesting because it's such a pivotal scene in the entire film, and the only seen where are three leads are all on screen together. They're never together except for that that one little moment. And what's so interesting is how they sort of resist saying Chinatown for a beat because they're there because MRs Mauricio for Khan lives in Chinatown. He's told her to go like meet him at contests and conscious gives the address over he lives, and there's a Jack Nicholson won't say the word Chinatown when he realizes where it is. And he just won't do it. He won't say the word, and I think that's so interesting structurally because there's a lot in here about characters won't come out and say what they mean. But are making it really obvious. They won't say it all the times that fade don't always stumbles over the word husband, or like, she's like my husband or like, even even even this little joker here that happens in Jack Nicholson is talking to Faye Dunaway. No question from us. Right. Mrs mall, right. Frankly tonight, you save my. You say my neck did away. It's a little bit overdone. But you know, what he's trying. Now, the guy who told her embarrassing horrible. John chinaman, Joe is at least know watching his words. Let's talk about free Dunaway in this. Character originally, it was going to be alley McGraw, but she divorced producer, Robert Evans. Kids stays in the picture, Robert Evans, classic insane. Robert Evans for Steve McQueen. He's like, well, you won't be in that movie. And then Robert Evans wanted gene Funda for the part, but Roman plants didn't want. Jane funny wanted Faye? Dunaway and Faye. Dunaway. Kind of coming off this weird run films because she had been amazing in bonding, CLYDE, we talked about it on the show. And then what it does to movies after that that don't really connect the three musketeers is one of them and another film that just was not kind of paying off in the premise of how. How amazing people thought she was going to be. But in this film, you can see Jack Nicholson. Oh, that's Jack movie. I see him. He always feels a little bit like Jack Nicholson this character feels so incredibly different from her portrayal bonding, CLYDE. Yeah. I mean, I think what's so interesting about this character is like, you never know when she's lying, and she's like incredibly mask like honestly, you know, her face is done like a mask, the lips the perfect eyebrows. I mean, I think Fay was saying that the only thing room implants gave really cared about was her makeup, which was based on his own mother's look pre World War Two, which is interesting. That's well, putting that in the context of his mom, dying Auschwitz. That's okay. Yeah. He said that that was like he was very specific about wanting that that lipstick in the shape of a cupid's bow. And and she looks jarring in a way as those penciled on eyebrows. Like, you said to mask she doesn't break the mask in like a you can't tell what the mask is four for. So. Long. I mean, right. She's definitely lying about something. We don't really get it. She's got all these layers to to this performance, but they're hidden under this complete composure that she almost never breaks. You know, what I think really knocked me out about it is like even not getting direction from Polanski, you know, about her character's motivation. But you think like this is a part where she'd really liked somebody to kind of say like, here's some dimensions of the scene. Let's really talk about it. This is not the kind of part. We just wanna be thrown into the deep end in to figure it out by yourself, which she did she did these little things that I find really smart like I pulled a clip from the scene where she's just been in bed with Jack Nicholson, and he brings up her father. And you hear some nerves in her voice. You hear that something is up. But it's this physical thing. She does where she's been comfortable being topless in bed with him. And suddenly you watch or start to cover up her body. It's almost like this. Involuntary response to thinking of dad into protecting herself. It has to do. He he owns it. You know? I saw on. You saw. My father. Win. Smart. I mean, I love that. She's telling you just so much that is through her through her body language, and to me, it's like amazing. Because apparently like the first words that Polanski said to her onset were I hear you are difficult to work with which she is from all the stories. I've also heard that this is like a story where there are really. No, no, true heroes. Everything I've ever heard about fate on a way, she's tough. And yet like I can't help thinking of this parallel win the film ends Polanski. All these interviews talking about how hard she is to work with how like she's really fragile. How like oh. She wanted me to tell her motivation like making her out to sound like a basket case. I mean, he really did use words like certify ably insane and maniac in giant pain in the asked to describe Faye. Dunaway in this film. And when you think about it. That's basically what no across the saying about her character the whole time like it's kind of deliberate gas lighting, not just. Of her. But if everybody who knows her like, no across his telling Jack Nicholson, don't listen to her. She's crazy imbalance doing the same thing to the actress herself that that might have cost her an Oscar, you know, because when you start to spread that story around you start to believe that go will Roman Polanski edited her the right way wasn't that she perform the right way. But this is the same person who was frustrated with that seen the Klay, Maxine the film where she reveals that this woman is her sister enter daughter, and she didn't feel seem was working. She told Jack Nicholson you have to sat me and then Jack slapped her in. She brought that there she wasn't. She wasn't afraid to go to those places. And I feel like if you have that story coming out, and you have a story that she's difficult. It feels to me like she was just trying to find how to play this character and make this character three dimensional from arguably a man, this director who doesn't look at women in that way in a three dimensional way. Like Sheila says the biggest uphill battle because. He is not going. He didn't even think about how to painter. I mean, what's really been interesting kind of seeing as a theme in some of these. We've talked about is like a director or co star not trusting that the really great actress season scenes with do role. Yeah. You're right from dancing with Fred Astaire, Ginger Rogers. Yeah. I mean to Dustin Hoffman like pinching, Catherine Ross's asked to make her mad at him. And she's like, you don't have to pinch me like Reuter you doing, you know, the way the people talked about Cybill shepherd in the last picture show. It's like it's strange to me the way that the great actresses. We've seen these films have been talked about his like, they're incidental or it was a fight to get this performance out of them when you break, Jack Nicholson's TV, and they're like still a great guy we loved working with deck, and it's all to the same point. Which is I want to be good. I need to find out these things, and but she has the most complicated character in the movie and she plays it, so well, so definitely perform because she's got a walk. This line that's true throughout the whole movie. So when you watch it there's nothing that plays false. She's hiding this. She's afraid of him finding it out. She you see it in the scene when Jack is in her car when he kind of surprises after he sees they done away with her sister and daughter, you see that nervous. And you don't exactly know why what's going on something up. But you don't suspect it, and I think that this all fade Dunaway shoulders, and I think when you read any review this movie now any Kurt review any people talking about the film. They go to Faye Dunaway. I I don't think that you hear Jack Nicholson's performance as lauded as Dunaway's performance, and you know, as we've gotten further and further away from it. I think you see just hell mazing it. Yeah. I think you're exactly right. Like, this is a performance that has to hold up on like the second and third and fourth watch where you're like, no. This is true. Because I think a lot of films kinda cheat their, and when you re watch it again, you're like oh that twist ending does not hold up. Right. A twist for twisted, but not like. A soon as actually been paid off and as part of the character motivates her like her breezy Innis, when she's like, oh drop the case. I don't care we're fine. I'm in my purse makes perfect sense. You know, her her protection, you know, her driving forces that she doesn't want anyone to know about the worst thing that's happened in her life all coming from that, you know, and it makes sense every single watches still see it there. I mean the way that she describes it was she says, you know, often performance is because of when it comes to the relationship between actress and her director in often, it is in spite of in that she's not going to say in spite Overman, but that he had a great rigidity in his attitude of make her mad at me, and she'll be mad at the movie that actually freezes her up. So as a director he is not thinking about really what's best for her. Like he's thinking about really what to get from the C. He is going at her with his one direction of what he thinks will work, and when it doesn't work he's not trying anything else. The whole reason why this film exists is because Robert town didn't take. The easy way out. Robert town is this writer whose bouncing around town doing punch up on a lot of stuff. This is first produced screenplay. He was offered one hundred twenty five thousand dollars to write the great Gatsby. But he felt he couldn't do better than Scott's, Gerald. So he took twenty five thousand dollars a hundred thousand dollar pay cut to write his own this Chinatown story, and he wrote it with Jack Nicholson in mind because he had been roommates with Jack Nicholson who wrote it as a trilogy, and he wanted to do a trilogy in which the character age with the right amount of time in between, you know. So the two Jakes was the sequel, which we'll talk about maybe a little bit later, but it was really about L A, and it was pure passion project for Robert town. And I, and I think that that's why attracted all these amazing people in why I think these characters feel familiar, but are are wholly different. We've seen the Noir detective a million times, Jack Nicholson's character is a different version. Of that, you know. Same for Faye? Dunaway. She's a different type of traditional nor fem fatale. Because she's not a fem towel the way that we're used to seeing her. You know, we're giving it a little bit more backstory. What I think is interesting about what motivated town to do. This is one of the ways you talk about it was that it seemed very smell oriented that. He would look old photographs of Los Angeles. And he would remember what it smelled like, you smell of the perfumes that people were at the time or like, the what the trees smelled like he was like, I remember the smell of fresh painted houses in that. He was trying to capture this sense memory of what it was like growing up here before like all these buildings were demolished, which was us really worried about, you know, already by the time they made this like the Brown derby had to be replaced by the prince bar that actually still looks kind of like movie here. It hasn't changed too much. Thank God L of now Crean food, which is delicious. But that kind of knows sense, I think it sort of lovely because this is a movie. You know about a character who gets his nose cut. And I do love the way that it happens where it's not like slow and tortuous is just so fast. It's like an attack that happens before you even get there in does it hurt to him like only when I breathe is what he says. And I love that sequence. Because it's so intimating Roman Polanski. Of course, plays the the nose cutter and that scene and that scene is so intense. But then immediately the tensions diffused by the next thing, which is purely comedic when you see this bandage on his face, you go from I think we all feel like oh my God. What would it be like because it's such a personal cut? Like, I think if you all right now about cutting your nose like that the oh, yeah. It's so interesting that Polinsky I think embraced his character being called a midget. He's I think he was very insecure about his height. Okay. There's this story that when he was working his way from being sort of like, basically a street urchin loser sort of taking care of himself during holocaust when you know, both of his parents were taking camps when? Taking camp, and he was sort of fending for himself when he tried to become an actor in Europe. Like, he was one of fifty people who got approved to go to the next level drama class it then they're going to do one more final cut from their everybody got in but him when they told him to his face the reason he didn't get in his because he was so short they figured there weren't enough. Roles for him. So what you're saying is they were hightest, Amy. The world is high. And I think it leaves somebody like plan skied feeling like they wanna prove something. Well, I mean, then you have to answer the fact of all these short leading men. I mean, Tom Cruise is not the tallest of all men. But yet he's. People. Here is an interesting thing that rubber town once that about his approach to writing screenplays, which is you'll notice that he did this very well he likes to screenplay where every location that you go to return. So if you go to an office at some point in the script, you attorney's office that he wants to lay out basically geography of the film where you always know where you are. So that you understand with everything is real. And you know, who that reminded me? Movie called Titanic. Berg. Get out of here. I thought something interesting did I miss read this? Roane Lansky says, you know, I'll feed your nose to my goldfish. There's a goldfish in the pond in the back of mores house. And that's where Moorea was killed. You believe that maybe he was helping no across take that body out of there. Or is that like a little in that you see goldfish in that? Now, by the way, film gaffe alert, you couldn't have a goldfish in a saltwater pond. But I guess it wasn't technically a saltwater pond. It was you know, this is this is for greater minds to break down. But I didn't know it was like a little bit of an allusion to feed your nose to my goldfish, which was the way that Maure was drowned in that same. Imagine that cross just do it on his own own hands dirty. I think cross may have done it his own, but then getting outta here. Or you know, or maybe or maybe just didn't watch knows there's a there's an element in that. I feel like he would like his bare hands on on MAURICE throat. There are like these kind of interesting callback. That aren't even callback said, I sort of enjoy, you know, earlier on when when Jack Nicholson sort of yelling, his assistant for like, why did you bother taking pictures of mole right arguing with some guy in front of the pig and whistle. And like the guy says all I heard them say it was the word apple court. And he's like apple corps. It of course, that we later realize that he's referring to albacore like the club that is so central to a lot of the corruption happens. But I respect that. This is a movie that never has the scene of like, apple corps albacore. Well, I mean, I would argue that the detective work in this movie is some of the most realistic detective work. I've seen a love, you know, whether it's a setting the stopwatch, plenty of other the tire breaking out the. Tillet? So he could follow someone better. You know, he is doing I think real practical investigative work, which you very rarely see in films, and I think it's kind of going back to all the president's men. It's very naturalistic in how he's figuring out things. Yeah. I mean, people say that he's a bad detective actually don't think he's a bad. Detective I think like his step-by-step star pretty good stealing a bunch of extra business cards knowing everybody in town's kind of TMZ where he just knows everybody had to get all the gossip. I think he's actually very good with one crucial flaw, which is he believes the truth that isn't true very early on. And he's following this one path. Yeah. Agree with that. And you know, just even bring it out a little bit broader, this whole film is about perception perception versus reality. If you look at some of the similar Taga fee. You're watching a lot of people being seen through binoculars or through a camera lens or even their face through a reflection. Of their face on a picture on the wall, and it's kind of going past the surface level looking. It's really the whole movie is about becoming a detective and not just what you see you have to go deeper than the surface. And I feel like that's this is again, we keep on coming up this theme like what's beneath the surface. Yeah. I mean, like not only is just this. Repeated idea of is me no glasses getting broken the flaw in Faye Dunaway's Iowa. There's a spot in her pupil. There's also just this camera work that I think really drills at home. I mean, there's a couple of shots that border on POV. I think like my favorite POV shot is when he's in bed with Faye. Dunaway. There's that phone call in suddenly like your kind of in bed with him, and you see his arm. I think he's smoking cigarettes is that going to pull in. It's just that sleet little touch, you know of like being his head. See what he sees? There is a lot of history or fictional history. Or things that look like history in this movie. I think it's time for us to talk to an expert the woman that I think of when I think of LA history stories, we gotta talk to highly mirrors. Now, how she writes for curbed rights for LA magazine. She has her own new podcast about murder is called underbelly. LA issues tours. I met highly forever ago, giving a slide show tour about a murder, which is her specialty. So Hadley welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me, all let's just jump into the biggest biggest biggest question LA water wars in the nineteen thirties. Was that a thing? No. Wow. Okay. LA water wars in the nineteen twenties was thing. Not in the nineteen thirties. Can I just bring you through the history? Okay. Easiest way to do it since it's so much of it is wrong. So when LA was first a little tiny Pueblo centered around like Veira street down there. The only water source was the Los Angeles river and the Los Angeles river was never very huge. Then there was a private water company, which is mentioned a lot in Chinatown that did exist. It wasn't run by an evil no across figure, but our hero. Who would be mole Ray in the movie was really a man named William Holland. And William Holland was a fascinating, very LA guy. Very self made L as a place for you constantly reinvent yourself. And nobody's who they appear. He was an Irish immigrant. He arrived in Los Angeles. He started out as a ditch digger and taught himself to be this fascinating amazing engineer who transform Los Angeles. So this was a guy who never went to school. Read a ton of books about engineering in his show. Jack by the L A river and built the Los Angeles Akwa duct and all of these giant reservoirs. So we're based we're flimflam in right would in Los Angeles. They're very intertwined, and it's all just a city of flimflam in who just kind of buy their food straps. So he works for the private water company. And then around nineteen o to the city buys this private water company. And it is also round this time from about eighteen ninety five to nineteen of four that there's a horrible horrible drought in Los Angeles a lot like we were going through a couple of years ago. There's like, no, right. So this drought is happening. There's water supplies, dwindling everywhere. And this man named Fred Eaton comes to mow n-, and Fred Eaton had been a mayor of Los Angeles. And he was one of the few LA natives like he'd been there since it was this tiny little Pueblo and so- Fred eaten comes to Mahala and says, listen, there's this amaze. Raising giant lake called Owens lake which is in the Owens valley about two hundred miles northeast of Los Angeles and ever since I was a little kid. I always thought it would be the perfect place for us to get our water in Los Angeles. So they go up and have a ton of whiskey bottles in their car. And they go to this Owens valley lake, and it's really hard to get there. And it's a very remote area, mainly of just farmers. Kind of like you see in Chinatown like rough and tumble, ranchers and stuff and MO Holland. Sees this amazing lake and that there's this really easy kind of downhill pipeline that you can get it to the San Fernando Valley. And so he says fantastic. Yes, we should we should build this fabulous. Akwa ducked down Los Angeles will solve all of our water woes the thing. And this is where there's some shady stuff is that one right at the same time. That the board of commissioners and other people in LA are secretly discussing. How can we get the rights to all this this lake and Sally and this river? There may be was some kind of like talking back and forth with all the rich guys in town and a guy named Moses Sherman who actually founded West Hollywood weirdly enough. He was on the city board for the water stuff and also good friends with Harrison gray Otis in Harry, Chandler, and this consortium guys who owned a lot of newspapers and stuff. So like, the albacore club kind of spec is totally that is very true. They weren't a club per se, but they were all the bigwigs in Los Angeles. And so he kinda tells them, hey, all that ranchland right outside of Los Angeles in the San Fernando Valley. Just so, you know, like there might be tons and tons of water coming there, very soon. So they option a ton of this land that they are had is on and kind of designs on buying in the San Fernando Valley and purchase it a day after it's announced that this aqueducts gonna. Be built. So that is shady, and that is a true thing that happened that's very much like China town. But then what also happens is that this Fred Eaton guy who was the mayor of Los Angeles for a while. He goes up to the Owens valley and starts buying all the land around the lake and the river to get the water rights. He makes the ranchers up in the valley. Thank that. He's buying this land as part of the US government's reclamation project to bring them water. So again, another really super shady the city is built on live. So he did he did buy a ton of land and owed Sally to get the water rights, which then gave to the city of Los Angeles. And all he got out of it. For decades was just a bunch of cattle from this like useless ranch land. He had bought so they build the aqueduct. It takes nineteen thirteen. It's a huge huge deal. Thousands of men are building this Akwa docked its mouth is in the San Fernando Valley and Mulholland. William Holland is the hero of Los Angeles. He's in charge of this entire Ecuador's. That's going to bring the city from being a city of a couple hundred thousand people to millions of people. And that is true. Like, no across says in Chinatown about mole Ray, you know, he made the city Mahala did make LA LA could not exist without the water. He brought from the Owens valley. So in nineteen thirteen the Akwa officially opens Mahala says this famous line of there. It is take it which a lot of people have used as kind of like white male, patriarchal privilege, take all this water from these four ranchers, and it's a giant success and the population is just booming in Los Angeles. So it's booming so much that by the nineteen twenties. Holland is very worried. Because there is not enough water already though. It's like isn't supplying enough water aqueduct isn't doing the job. So he wants to get more water. And that's when the water wars start because the Owens valley was really decimated in basically completely bought out by the county of Los Angeles. And they wanted water for themselves. It's very complicated. We don't need to get into all that. But they do dynamite large portions of the Akwa dot they do almost Lynch a guy who they felt like was selling rights to stuff and water rebellions like when the farmer up Jack Nicholson, and they're angry exact tension was actually happening. And the only way that guy got out of being lynched like they kidnapped him from a restaurant took him under a tree had the rope. And he made he was in like, the, Masons or some secret society. So he like made a sign. That's like what a Mason distress makes. And so the people who were about to Lynch him. We're like oh. Right. He's like, my Mason, brother and. Wow. So it's much more complicated. But it's all sort of true. I don't think the intentions were as bad all across the board is Chinatown. Robert town wants you to believe. Okay. Yeah. And there's also sort of this ghost that hangs over the film a little bit. You know, we hear more talk about this damn accident that he does he's not gonna let this damn accident happen again. He's not going to have a new dam because so many people died. I mean, he's talking about something called the vendor that Dan, but that's true. Right. That is true in the late nineteen twenties. There was a huge disaster. It was actually the largest manmade disaster to ever happen in California. It was called the Saint Francis dam disaster. And that's when the Saint Francis dam, which was designed by William Mahala nd burst outside of Valencia, and it caused a giant flood that went all the way to ensure all the way to the ocean killed probably between like. Four hundred or six hundred people and Mulholland a lot of people say Mahal and never was the same. After that. He was already an old, man. He was kind of encouraged to retire from the water department at that point. He was no longer chief engineer from what heard about that damn exit. Like, I heard that they'd knocked bodies so far away that they found bodies in Mexico. They found bodies everyone they still find bodies occasionally. Because what happened was a lot of the people who got killed were. I tin at workers working on different rail lines. So nobody really even knew, you know, back then in the twenties still even John might go off to the west to work, and you just never hear from him again. And so people didn't even know he had disappeared. Yeah. I mean, like, I guess he's like a quotable, dude. Because the thing he said about the same Francis. Dan, that I thought was really striking is he said the only ones I envy about this thing are the ones who are dead. Yes. And he was very well known, Holland and Mowbray is not like this at all in the movie. Ray seems kind of like a boring do-gooder Mohammed was known as like a jokester in like real wry and funny and all the guys who worked for the water department loved him. And he actually got his his first big break when the water company was still private because the guy who owned the water come be asked him a question. He was basically like fuck off. Like, I do what I do. And the guy was like, you're fantastic things that never happened real. Of course, I get fired. But this guy was like oh that kid has spunk. Like make the city of that. I mean, this whole town is based on this idea of Dino, flimflam it or gangsters or or people that are going outside of the law. I mean, the film business was in New York, but to work in the film business, you had to be under the the the banner of Thomas Edison that he owned the equipment. He owned the production means, and if you did it without his approval, he would say gangsters after you. He would sue. To you and a bunch of people they call themselves the independence actually across country to California to make an shoot film because they knew it'd be so hard to basically be caught. They couldn't send people across the country mafia with Tra travel cross country like to you know, to give you a knee cap job or something like that what he was kind of chasing them out of New York. And right felt that they could get away from him. Right. If they came to Los Angeles and LA really was like the end of the world. I mean, it was the last wild West Frontier. And I think China town does a really good job of showing that these are all guys with a wild west mindset. They're going to do what they have to do. They're going to create the city they want to create and they're going to kill anybody who gets in their way. And I think that that is kind to me the power, and greed, and also you will do anything to create what you think is for the better good and Mulholland talks about that a lot when the aqueducts being built because you. You see a lot of papers like William Randolph, Hearst examined or a while or super against the Akwa dot and a lot of socialist politicians, like a politician job Harriman who ran for mayor. They made the Akwa dot this huge selling point of look at all these corrupt due to bought up the San Fernando Valley for this water. Like, this water isn't really for. You. This water is to further their aims for what they want for the city, not to save your. And yeah, I think China is really good job of showing that you know, there's a fine line between to build an empire. You've got a fuck shit up. I mean, really you got a mess some stuff up if you wanna create me look America. I mean, our histories gnarly this plot is so Chinatowns always to such a complicated script in it's such a complicated story, but the real story is much more complicated. So like and Chinatown to me as such a quintessential seventies like shades of gray. Like is it like who knows good or bad? And like put the real story is only shades of gray Housley. Thank you so much for coming onto pooled for sharing with us all of your history. People you go to calm. You can see a link to everything that she does which is everything all the time. You're going to walking tours of downtown LA. Well, they thank you so much. Thanks, y'all. Today is episode is also brought to you by our good friends at stitch fix. Okay. This is an online personal styling service that finds and delivers clothes shoes. Accessories that fit your body your budget and your lifestyle. Here's the deal. It's like Tinder for clothes you go on there. And you start to click. What you like what you don't like. 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There's no subscription required. You can sign up to receive scheduled shipments or get your fix whenever you want. You want want? So we can get a once a week once a month month you wanted ever east or you can get it every Easter stitch fix styling fees only twenty dollars, and it's applied towards anything that you keep from your shipments. That's nothing. It's only twenty bucks to pay a real live person to look at what you've deemed is worthy for. Yourself. I love it. Get started now at stitch fix dot com slash unspoiled and get an extra twenty five percent off when you keep all five items in your box that stitch fix dot com slash unspoiled. To get started today. Stitch fix dot com slash on spoiled. So this movie cost about six million dollars. When it was made it grows twelve when it was first released in nineteen seventy four and as of two thousand fourteen it's grossed about thirty million dollars. So not like a giant giant hit? But you know, it seems to be kind of universally loved and respective were there any bad reviews there were it actually I have to give a show to somebody. I go to this library for a lot of my research, Margaret haircare in Los Angeles. It's like the kademi their library. They're great because when you look up an old movie, they actually have a lot of original clippings of the reviews from that movie. A while. So as in there looking for old reviews of Chinatown, and I've ran into a critic friend of mine, Michael Schrage, and it turned out that he wrote a negative review of Chinatown. And so while I was there so recently, or no, no, he's a very he is he's sort of Leonard Maltin ish, he became a critic when he was really. We really young stories of playing pool with the greats in the sixties and in nineteen seventy four he was twenty two years old, and he wrote a pan of Chinatown it as I was pulling it up, and I was like, Michael I'm gonna use this on the show visits. What he said to me? He said, oh, yes. I wrote it when I was a bold and confident twenty two year old there's a reason I haven't regretted in a while. But I still stand by it sort of so Michael Chicago, thank you. And I'm going to read you review that you wrote in New York magazine of genitalia nineteen seventy four he wrote that the most acclaimed private eye saga since the big sleep has the torpor of awake in the corpse is the screenplay. Wow. Wow. He said the deforms embalming craftsmanship. Stymies your enjoyment, isn't he goes in very very hard on Roman. Polanski? He says that rumor plans key is an aging prodigy who's ravaged personal life attracts more notoriety than his usually perverse films, and that Polanski never favors compassion over carnage. He has none of towns. Emotional stakes in the movie, which I do believe town, deeply cares about this film. Whereas he actually has a quote from Lansky. Why did I make this movie for the money? Of course, Polanski who says politics, bore me, and who refers to himself in interviews as a happy hor closes Chinatown with wanton violence Chinatown has the look of predetermined route because Polanski smothers town script. He never lets any air. We miss the beauty and spacious -ness of the land, which was towns major inspiration plans get rebels and artifice every shot in Chinatown locks into a larger puzzle in each character smirk. Hides a secret he commercializes the attitudes of apocalyptic sixties youth. Movies. If he really believed what his film says he will commit suicide, or at least refuse to work for Gulf and western I e paramount, but plans gate is just another huckster doing a job. Well, it's interesting because I think that the reason he doesn't like it is one of the reasons why this movie is kind of so revered because he looked at L a very interesting way. Instead of maybe photographing it like Noir, you know, he brought a darkness to the character. We talked about this earlier like instead of the cinematography, and I think it serves the movie, quite well, actually, you know, I don't think Jack Nicholson is an anti hero. But I think the world view is much darker and feels very very topical two were getting in today's entertainment almost doesn't need to be said of it was settled at the time. It still said today that like a lot of the darkness of the Los Angeles in Chinatown is because of plans get been through. In just five years before with his wife with the Manson murders that that's what the city is. And I think that that is a good leak nece into film. I think it is good. But I when I read their view, I was thinking what would it be like if there was just a touch of actual genuine love for the city as well. Feel like if you believed as I think no across believes in the promise of this city, which I think you see I mean, even even like potential of the form. I don't know. I mean, I don't think it would take away from it to have a little bit of love in there. I think it might complicate it in a way that would be interesting. I mean, a city that is ripe for potential, but also right for corruption is fascinating. I mean, Tom has said it was really delivered that he wanted say like Lieutenant Escobar to be Hispanic that he wanted that to be part of this. He wanted to show what lesson Angeles was in could be in a way that people had expected, you know. And maybe there's a sense that. Lansky never saw the real LA, but he saw version of it. And he layered that on and it may be flattened just a bit of the debt. It's an interesting point. If it was a little bit more, balanced, then I think you would have some union Yang. And I think what he does in this film is he adds comedy to kind of release the tension instead of kind of showing the beauty of LA. I think the most beautiful scenes in the film are the scenes that are not Nellie. They're out in the armed grove country. Where so much light is kind of coming in. But this movie and going back to Matafi. Reminds me of a book that you would pull off a bookcase like the yellow paged book. It doesn't. It's not sepia. It's it has us like kind of the way that you would find an old war something that's been in pockets. Yeah. There's something about it. And they feel like that's what he captured instead no deference to the city or the John rea-, but more of a outsiders. I of this place in maybe that's what makes it unique to do think. There's nothing more alternately heartbreaking than hope when you have hope and it still turns out badly. Well, speaking of hope, I hope there's a Simpsons clip. Well, yes, there is other the clip that I pulled is technically, but more of a Robert Evans clip. Okay. Because there's just Simpson's. Like forget about it hall. It's blah, blah, blah. Okay, fine. But this clip is from an episode called. The alligator and run and is the episode in which Homer Simpson accidentally kills the mascot, Florida an alligator named captain Jack. And then he has nightmares. He is the most hated man on the planet. I mean, like kid rock shows up to the alligator sooner. So he's late at night because he hasn't Saamna. He's watching TV, and it is Robert Evans being interviewed by Charlie rose. We're back with legendary producer Robert Evans before you did the godfather. There was love story. Tell us about that. Story the little picture that could was paramount shopping at the bit to make it you better believe they weren't. But once that tear jerky had John Q popcorn of his buffo. Boo box office, all the way and the critics loved it too. I remember Vincent canby said I'm going to kill you Homer. You are so dead. Now Chinatown was a classic with people the two Jakes boy disappointed. I the blues chasing said Chile. I said to myself Evans, you forgot Hollywood rule. Number one kill Homa Simpson. That is the real rubber Evans, by the way, believe real truly rose as well. Yes. Another interestingly problematic person, Amy. Well, that's a good segue into what I want to talk about sequels. I told you earlier that this was envisioned as a trilogy was going to be Chinatown the two Jakes and a third that was never made called cloverleaf. Now the nine hundred ninety s to Jake's not badly received. You know, wasn't a was it. I mean, this is what Jack Nicholson spent his Batman Mojo on. Okay. So basically, Jack Nicholson directs us interesting Jack Nicholson gets behind the camera for this one. But it's not we're not talking. You know, last picture show sequel quality here a little bit better. All right. Let's go get the trailer. The war was good for LA brought in money opportunity more than a little greed put the weasel in jail. Nothing else matters nothing else in the world. About five or six million bucks. Make a phone call, please. Now, the war's over and people come here because they think the money's easy and the women are easier. That's a combination. That's good for business. The divorce business. Which by the way pays for my convertible country club dues and my office building where I can shut the doors and not even here the oil will pumping across the street. Cops always think I'm lying. The gun with them. I'd never I before. I let him walk in on his wife hanging on the headboard. While some guy was slamming into the wall, Lou lady in question reminds you someone else and marriage has made more liars out of men than golf course can't live without gall talking about eight tell me what the hell you going on here. And I'll tell you think you're right. What I do for living may not very reputable. But I am this town on the leper with the most fingers. The two Jakes Lamey. I take back everything positive. I said about that movie because it looks like it disregards all the rules at this movie, followed there's voiceover narration here. It doesn't look period at all it looks really half asked in in kind of falls into all the traps that I I don't know it just Jack Nicholson. Being Jack Nicholson there's nothing about it. They're pretty or Dickey. I mean, Jack Nicholson apparently gained thirty pounds for it. Which I think he never lost. He I I'm interested in the idea of the city changing a bit of him being richer, and Lazier and more jaded. Last picture show, by the way, oil comes right? Exactly, exactly one thing. That happens in here is that the fem fatal turns out to be Faye Dunaway's daughter in don't always daughter tries to make out with him. And he's like, oh, no when he puts it all together. And you're like did we need this callback? Not really of. That's played by Meg Tilly who looks beautiful insuring with her blonde hair. And I guess final fun fact making this movie is when he got the actress who played his secretary pregnant, thus permanently finally ending his relationship Djelic Houston after seventeen years after she had to be the one to find Roman Polanski with the girl in the house after thing. Wow. Well, what a what a way to kind of end it. And do you think there will be a cloverleaf? I I've also been referred to as like get as versus Geddes. Yeah. Well, now, just like if get his about an Getty's like the photographer pictures, the babies, and it was like babies and watermelon versus like babies and peaches babies and watermelon than Jack Nicholson and watermelon. All right, Amy. My question to you. Does it belong on the list? Do you think Amy Nicholson Tisza belong on your f-? I top one hundred list. And obviously we talked about the issues coming into this film to. I think it's a really good good film. And I don't know how hard I would fight for it. If they wanted to take it off to be honest. I don't think it diminishes the goodness of it. If it was off the list, I think Bonnie in CLYDE is such a great fade Dunaway performance. I could let this one go. If I had to to be honest, and I think we have other great Jack Nicholson performances on the list that I could also let go of I think we have great noirs on the list that we have double indemnity. I think this film is terrific. I don't want to raise this phone from history. But would I be he's if it was like taken off? Yes. Well, what you just swayed me you did because I loved watching this movie. But every point you just made I can completely concur with. I mean, the only person who kind of loses in this entire thing is Robert town because the script is really fantastic script. And I think it captures this mystery in this complex relationships, and it's so beautifully done. I I really do think the script here is is the king at moves at such a brisk pace, and there's so much information. We talked about movies like all the president's men where you're getting overwhelmed by information in here you can track. There's a lot going on. There's a lot of names. But you're tracking everything I feel like it's it's a great Jackson performance in great Faye. Dunaway performance, but all things being equal. If there is an issue behind one of these films. Why are we going to put that one on the list because we? Have to acknowledge that too. I don't want to raise it from existence. I'm not talking about that. But I can see your point about it not being on the list. I would definitely put it on my list of top noires. Unequivocally. But I mean, how many do we need and guess that's comes down to the whole question of the show. How many of each of these things do we need, you know, it's sort of like we're in the hoarding mentality. How many westerns how many wars, you know? There are other genres. There are other people represented in this world, you know, devil. No, blue dress. Maybe that should be on here in just the sake of it's a different perspective of private. I feel bad Fredericton. Could he be at peace knowing that, you know, he did on credited, but important work on like, the godfather Bonnie, and CLYDE he's here in spirit in it goes, we could make an argument he wrote the first mission impossible like a. Yeah. All right. Well, there we go and to wrap it up, Amy. We're moving down the list. Now, we already told you that we are not rolling the dining more. So what do we got on the list coming up while we decided to follow up Chinatown with a Dustin Hoffman? Classic back to some Dustin Hoffman for a little movie called z. Hewitt go. See here we go to see. All right. So you can get t wherever you can find your films, libraries, a great place to go. I always recommend the library to check out. Some of these homes are of course on any streaming service. This is one that's very easy to find Zoe Amy since next is doing some research. Tell us what you found about the title. Like, why is it called city? Yeah. Well, this movie went through a bunch of titles and they settled on Tizi because Dustin Hoffman said it's what his mom Easter call him. When he was a kid. She'll call him. See what's he puts? It is. So it has no bearing on the actual film. So maybe the best thing that we can ask of you is to give us a better name, then Tootsie for the film a name that actually relates to this film. Not just like a personal pet nickname that Dustin Hoffman's mom had from call. You paul? Paul. Seven four seven six six five eight two four seven four seven six five to four and give us a better title. Then took Z actually relates to the film. All right. We'll see next week four. I wanna say thank you again to our sponsors at fracture Paul spent a lot of time staring at your face as we do this. I just take a picture of you right now and make it a fracture print have this for you all the time when I missed recording with you just have coffee. Fan for you. And we can make sure to even you know, if you wanna have like a phone conversation with a good friend. You could just put your phone behind the glass, if probably been echoing kind of thing, and you will get a better sound quality from your phone. Oh, look you're talking to the person. I will say I have ordered the biggest size of fracture print once and it is very big it work sized picture of your would be less creepy for a podcast host to own of her fellow podcast. And we will send you podcast heads of us on glass. Just tell us what you want. We'll do it. Visit fracture me dot com slash unspoiled for a special discount on your first fracture order. That's factually dot com slash unspoiled for a special discount on your first fracture. Order. Don't forget to pick unschooled in the one question survey after please do it. Visit our sponsors. We love them. Welcome to getting curious. Jonathan Ben NASA, you guys I'm so excited to introduce you to this podcast. It's been my little baby idea for a while. Now, this is going to be a really fun. Look at things that I find curious whether it's a menstrual Cup. It might be the Romanov family at might be fracking be Carly theory. I don't even know who knows it's going to be whatever I think is interesting. We're going to be bringing content experts. I'm going to be learning the things it's only gonna take about thirty minutes for expand your baby brain's with me and have a super times. I can't wait to see you on getting curious. Built real natch and q.

Jack Nicholson Faye Dunaway MRs Moulay Roman Polanski Amy Chinatown Los Angeles John Huston Jake Geddes China director New Orleans San Francisco Paul Scheer Nicholson Walter Huston Humphrey Bogart Mr. gates guy Fieri Leonard Maltin Disney Oscar
Self-Care for Your Mental Health

A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast

28:15 min | 1 year ago

Self-Care for Your Mental Health

"In. For reasons that utterly escape everyone involved. You're listening to a BI polar schizophrenic, Anna podcast. They're your hosts gave Howard and Michelle hammered. Will buy more gets the product at a podcast. My name is Gabe Howard eyelid with bipolar disorder. Hi, Michelle, schizophrenic, and today, we are going to discuss self care. But like glow end self care, like easy, self-care basic, self care, the self care that nobody thinks about because everybody's always thinking about like, these grandiose, self care ideas. But like going to a spine getting a facial that would be one or going on vacation or being able to stay home for a week quitting their jobs. And yeah, quitting your job. What else is grandiose self care? I think the biggest grandiose oh f- care is like marrying a rich person and just eating bon-bons while watching TV all day. Wait, there's something wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with it. It's just the kind of self care that most of us can't participate in. I mean that seems kind of like a pretty good self care. I think that is an excellent care, and we're going to do a companion episode called self care for the rich and famous and that will be on there. If you're a sugar daddy looking for a sugar, baby. And you're not a total creep, Email me, really the creep thing. Do you care kind of creepy behavior on your part? You're literally looking for somebody to take care of you. Okay. Fine change that if you are really rich person, and you wanna give me a lot of money for no reason, hit me up Michaud you and I both live with severe and persistent mental illness, and we've managed to live successfully for a number of years, and we always talk on the show that there's more than just medication. There's more than just therapy. There's more than just peer support or group therapy or having. Stable housing or having good, friends and family, and one of the things that we almost never talk about an alert reader pointed out is we never talk about basic self-care tips, and I'm really surprised because between us we have like so many. And I love it when we get together, and our little self-care ideas. Don't quite mesh a big one of mine is going to get diet coke and just shilling at seven thirty in the morning. That's why doesn't quite mesh. And one of your self care. Tips is going to get coffee, but like closer to eleven and it's very difficult to find a place that has diet coke and coffee that you find acceptable like McDonald's McDonald's that was a good compromise on our part. But remember you're trying to take me to Starbucks. Yeah. And you refuse to go to Starbucks. You think you're better than Starbucks? I don't like coffee. Why not why don't you like diet coke? I do like diet coke, but I don't want it. I I'd rather have coffee in the morning than DIKO. You see the problem? Mm-hmm. And this is why you shouldn't have mentally ill friends, ladies and gentlemen. We did an episode a few weeks ago where we talked about vices and diet coke was brought up as vice because I drink so much of it. And we're not walking that back. But this is the flip side of that. Where it relaxes me. It helps me it is a part of myself care, especially when I get very stressed out at work, or when I get overwhelmed on a project, I can step out Dr someplace sit down Sipa diet coke people watch look around and that really allows me to calm down. This is a self care option that cost me a couple of bucks. And I know that you feel the same way about coffee. Yes. Cuffy's readily available walking through New York City. I want some coffee I'll be at a coffee shop at least three minutes you want. Subscribe to that. If you wanted coffee in New York, you just have to hold out your hand and say coffee, and it just magically appears it's Virginia less how much coffee you can get near city. Maybe that's why everybody's so amped all the time. All these just go go, go, go go. Maybe that's what it is. That's why everybody is just so fast. That everything in your city is just the readily available. This of coffee everywhere is wrestle. Offers end is wrestle. Everywhere in New York. You have people that call it Expresso. They don't pronounce the ask they call. It x press Espresso. I thought it was Expresso for so long you pronounce the ex I didn't know why didn't know a head to be educated. Gape I needed to be educated about coffee longtime listeners of the show. No, I also host the psych central show with Vincent and Wales. And Vince is a master coffee person. Like, he has all the equipment in his home. He knows everything about coffee. He knows everything about the beans. He has so much coffee knowledge, and he tries to impart this on me all the time. And I just give him this glazed over look like can I go? Now, you never told me this about him. So I don't know. I me inventor not better friends now. Oh, then loves all the sudden, I like Vince so much more than I ever did. Well, there's another thing that I should tell you about VIN. What he loves New York style pizza. It's the only pizza that he will eat. Why did you never tell me this about? Been I'm telling you. Don't assume that all the people around you are like old and God awful. Maybe ask them some questions. Maybe some find some common ground. All I know is that he likes comics. I mean, he does like comics that that's true. And I have nothing in common with him because I don't like comets. But now that I know I have all this stuff income within maybe being the F F. I always thought you invent were BFF's, you didn't know. Listen, everybody. Michelle. Invent don't have a riff they get along just fine. But they have a lot in common. And they don't realize it because you know, VIN is is well into his fifties. And Michelle acts twelve a big big gap VIN lives in California. Michelle is from New York. We've got the whole male female thing the long distance relationship going to be a long distance. And then is very like muted like he's nothing like me. He's just very like. Yes. Yes. Hello is. Wales. He's an oval list. He spends a lot of time alone. With his words. I spent a lot of time alone with my words, but I'm not writing them talk. I'm just like, you know, you said early on that one of your coping mechanisms not not self care, but coping mechanisms was you put your buds in and that when you walk down the street people are like, oh, she's not talking to herself. She's singing along to music or maybe she's on a bluetooth. Maybe she's on the phone, etc. It doesn't look weird because you have the ear buds in. Yes. Right. I became a podcast or because originally when I was sitting upstairs just talking to myself. My wife thought it was weird now, I'm like, oh podcasting. She thinks podcast fourteen hours a day. I know I know my my friends in college thought, I was on the phone sometimes I be on the phone but often they'd be like who are you talking to? And some knows I wasn't. I would try to say I was on the phone more times than it actually was honestly, one of your self care techniques was to educate the people that you lived with. I don't think you've ever lived alone. Have you you've always either lived at home lived in the dorms or lived with a roommate. Yes. So you've had to do part of your self care regiment, is educating the people that you live with so that they give you the least amount of flack or shit or trouble as possible, right? Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah. It's never really been a big deal with anyone I lived with like outside of college moving into queens in a story. I living in the apartment I live in. Now. The only thing that bothers a new one is that I don't clean enough but easy breeding. Running. But like, you know, being Verna, you always learn like, they're the cleanliest of all the people, blah, blah, blah. We're gonna get letters for that. What people with schizophrenia Clinton just watched that video like people might not dress the best whatever that stupid video said like, okay, sure, we don't dress. Great. What what was ridiculous rigging? Fact was that, you know, it's messed up I know personally to people who live schizophrenia have lots of co workers and colleagues and fellow mental advocates. But to people who live schizophrenia that I consider like like buddies one of them is Michelle hammer, the greats Michelle hammer crews and the other one is Rachel star reader stars. Like the best dressed person. We know I know, and she knows how to walk in heels she teaches she actually had a fashion blog for a while where she taught people how to be a girl, and like how to walk in high heels how to wear the belt how to do the makeup. She's like well put together and she has schizophrenia. So I'm starting to think that maybe these video. Ios were they say things like people at schizophrenia, don't dress. Well, and they dress weird and they act weird, and they're not clean, and they all walk with on. We're gone. Yeah. I what is the gaunt. The awkward gone. I don't know what any of that is either. But this leads us into our next form of self care. Don't watch that shit. True, many people. They're just constantly googling stereotypes and offensive things on the internet. So that they can be mad at it. Yeah. Why it's almost like they want to educate themselves as much as possible. But then they find the online articles that really just are stereotypical and wrong. And they just started thinking bad things. Piss you off. Yeah. If you seek out things to be angry at you're gonna find it. Yes. But here's the magical thing, though, if you seek out things to provide you with joy on the internet. You will also find those what do you find for joy? I the internet porn. Listen, I'm not gonna lie and tell people that I've never looked at pornography on the internet today because that would just be a lie, and nobody would believe you, and nobody would believe me. But there are really cool things on the internet that I do enjoy reading one of the things that I've done, and I think that this is vital to self care is I use a news curator that eliminates a lot of news that I just don't wanna hear about in sources that I consider to be offensive or dramatic or don't follow journalistic standards, her saly like just don't your personal beliefs are really irrelevant. It's the part where you're constantly being bombarded with you're wrong. You're stupid. You're wrong. You're stupid. You're wrong. You're stupid. You realize once you put a slant on news. It's no longer news. Just by gossip it's bias news. It's opinion. But I like E news. Yeah. I I like to read my news. I also don't like like live new and by live news like I don't turn on like the twenty four hour. News station on the TV. Because it always ends up. Like this like we're getting word that something is happening. We have no facts are information. So we're just gonna make shit up. I personally love watching card chases. I mean cart-races are kind of fun. I like when they watched the car chase. And then the cargoes under a bridge or something like that. And then they start watching the wrong car. They follow for a minute. Yeah. They watched the cartoon like, oh, the Carson's to be pulling into a gestation. Oh, the gun in the car some suit wearing different colored shirt. They don't seem to be really in a rush. Oh, sorry, guys. I think we've been following the wrong car. Now seems like we've watched the Leyva we've lost the car those in her. Larry's to answer your original question of what are some things that I like to read on the internet that are fun. There's all kinds of uplifting things the biggest one for our community that we liked to push out is the mighty the mighty dot com. We do ask us anything on the first and third Monday. We do it live. You can see are pretty faces. Just go to mental health on the mighties. See my pretty face and Gabes ginger face. One of my self care things to limit the amount of time. I spend with Michelle now, but going on I was saying about watching cart-races, I look up on YouTube like fails. There you go, and it is just hilarious. But of course, if anyone actually got hurt on the fails, they wouldn't be in the fails compilation. But it's just so funny to me watching these people get hurt. Rope swing fails are hilarious like any kind of snowboarding fails, those are pretty funny or just ridiculous. Like just kids doing something stupid. But I know it's not good to watch this one. But it's the Larry is baby fails baby fails are the funniest fails ever. They just fall over they trip over things or like the baby's cover themselves. Peanut butter homeland. The granddaddy of all of them as when guys just get hit in the balls. The ball is getting hitting the balls. I cannot physically know the pain of getting hit in the balls. But it looks painful, and it's hilarious to watch gape. Have you ever been hitting the balls? Yes. Sorry. I'm sorry. It's amazing to me. Because on one hand. I'm like, oh, man. Would it be self care for me to watch a bunch of guys getting hitting the balls because I know that suffering and that always makes me cringe. But on the other hand, I'd laugh hysterically hysterically hysterically seriously. Let's take a break and hear from our sponsor this episode is sponsored by better help dot com. Secure convenient and affordable online counseling all counsellors are licensed credited professionals anything you share is confidential schedule secure video or phone sessions plus chat and text with your therapist. Whenever you feel. It's needed a month of online therapy often cost less than a single traditional face to face session. Go to better help dot com forward slash psych, central and experienced seven days a free. Therapy to see if online counseling is right for you. Better health dot com forward slash psych, central and Rebecca talking about self care. How do you feel about? Fidget spinners. I like fidget spinners. Why not have they helped you? They're not new anymore there. Well over a year old, and I think the fat is kind of gone as far as mainstream. They were all over China town when I was popping up near little Italy. They were every every kid that came into the market had if spinner a couple of years ago, they were everywhere for ten dollars. And then last year, I went to the fair dollars Chinatown five dollars. Ten bucks? Ten bucks? Ten bucks ten bucks? And then the fair this year dollar. Yeah. We'll ever invented them. They made a lot of money. So the mainstream fad is over. I've kept mine. I still find it to be very, very helpful. I keep a little fidget spinner, but a little fidget toy in my pocket, and I still use what I consider like fidget spinners, great, great grandpa, Koos balls or squeezy balls. I find all of those things squeeze your balls. No, don't squeeze my balls. I have a little foam ball that. I can squeeze interesting that you're over there thinking about my balls. No. I was just like you like squeezy balls. I mean, you said squeezy balls, Gabe stress balls. You said you like Swayze on for all your like squeezy vol's? Do you ever think that we like bicker back and forth like siblings as part of our self care regimen? Is that like art thing because we laugh hysterically when we do it. So I guess we not an argument talking about south care systemically. I always liked to bring up the late great Whitney Houston who said learning to love yourself is the greatest love of all. But how was that a self care thing isn't like a high level concept? It's kinda like telling somebody that is having financial problems to just make more money. Oh, you're distressed just love yourself. She decided to paraphrase. I don't know. The exact words, but Whitney Houston did say that she decided long ago not to wander anyone shadow. You know what I'm saying? Because that way if she succeeds it won't be her destiny or if I fail if I succeed at least I lived as I believe live as you believe Gabe, don't wander anyone shadow. Don't be anyone shadow. Be. You don't let anyone tell you. What to do? I think that that is excellent advice. You've also stumbled upon another thing that I think is amazing music. Yes. Is this music really speaks to you. And I know that you've described when you've been depressed stressed. Worried or even a little manic that you use music to like regulate your mood. You think that's a common thing? I have that big twelve speakers around down stereo in my car bluetooth enabled. And I use it to listen to our podcast. But whatever you are here, we connect it. And we're like we're like doing carpool karaoke, and like screaming music and people are staring at us. Yeah. That's made you play Whitehouse's by Vanessa Carlton. And I was singing my heart out you were. And what I love is. I don't like it when people sing because it grates me. But I was able to turn up the music so loud, I couldn't hear you. You don't like my singing voice. I am a professional singer. Who sang that song Vanessa Carlton? Let's that way. Yes. Yes. Yes. Everybody used to say that back in the day. Knock knock who's there? Interrupting cow. Do. Yeah. Everybody knows that. Why did the chicken cross the road together? Either side. Oh, you've heard this one who killed leash aquis who. No, no, no. On it was a qisas alive. Right. Yeah. Okay. That's her song. I didn't know that. Okay. Well, who's Alicia Keys? You know, she plays the ano-. I think she's a no one. Okay. That's not funny. It's a little funny fine. Whatever you want. I think we like different music. We have found music that we both lake and I would say that's another self-care tip maybe willing to compromise with your friends. I don't like to listen to music in the car. It's not something that I really do. But you and I have had to take several road trips as part of our job. And you were like, look I talked to you for money. So I'm not gonna talk to you for free. So I come 'promise agreed to listen to music, and we had a lot of fun doing it really was fun. But when you're not around, I don't do it by myself. So I think that sometimes self care is being open to new ideas. And maybe finding the joy and things that maybe you wouldn't do alone. Another example of that is jeopardy. I don't watch jeopardy when you're not around. I love jeopardy. I love it. I just love to see more of the competition type aspects because when I watch it maybe I get like five questions. Right. Get none. No. You get some never I wish I could be on jeopardy. But those people they just they have facts that I don't even I don't even know where actual things. How do they know this stuff? I they're amazing interesting. I do that these people are so smart, and I find it so interesting that they know these facts, and where did they learn these like I went to high school. I went to college. I didn't go to an Ivy league or anything like that. But how do they know these facts and even there's teachers tournament, and when I thought of a teacher your teacher teaches this subject, I thought they know this subject, no watch teachers ornament, they know everything everything and the college tournaments, they know everything, but I do very well on the high school tournament. Those those questions I do pretty good. And then they had like the Jew. Juniors. I was so good at the juniors. You have no idea those twelve year old kids, I'm on their level. You know that show are you smarter than a fifth grader, I'm bad at that was not I was not smarter than not smarter than if theater either. Yeah. That's how it is. Well, gape when you're not around I like to watch the people's court. So when we're together, we always watch the people's court where you watch the people's court when I'm not around I try to because I never watch jeopardy when you're not around like that's only something that I do with you. Because I only get joy when you're around and truly I think the only joy that I get is watching you watch it, listen, I think that sometimes people miss the idea that self-care doesn't necessarily mean getting your way, you know, so many people are like self care is doing what you want to do. And it is a part of that. But self care is also about finding joy and things maybe you wouldn't find joy in and I think of things like let's take marriage, for example, when you're married. You have to go to places or eat at restaurants or experience things that you wouldn't seek on your own. I did not wanna see Hamilton by. Now, it's supposed to be amazing. I wanna see it so badly the tickets are expensive. But my wife wanted to see it. So I went I loud go with where your wife that you buy the tickets your wife. It's too late. We already went. But there's an example though, I did not want to go, but I agreed to go. I got dressed up. We went out to a nice dinner. And I enjoyed myself. I both enjoyed the play and I enjoyed sharing it with somebody making my wife happy. It's also about the pageantry of putting on a suit, my wife, and I don't wear nice clothes around each other very often. And it doesn't matter if it's Hamilton nice restaurant, or if it's just going to the Taco Bell in the nice section of town around the corner, make it special. There's all kinds of ways to take the Monday and turn them into better. And that is an example of self care. This South Carolina is classified under the problem solving problems solving so care, this is problem solving John. Yeah. All this is really just problem solving software. This is what we're really discussing right now. I agree. Yeah. You read an article didn't you possibly? So I did some rays. Can you? I know nobody has ever called you a literate, Michelle. Nobody's ever called me a literate since I learned how to read I learned how to read Gabe Monday jokes are funny. You asked earlier about things that you can seek out on the internet joke. There's jokes every jokes everywhere. And there's inspirational writing always fun watching TV can be self care. I I'm a huge fan of the vampire slayer been a huge fan since I was eight years old. And you know with the beauty of online streaming services and stuff like that. I now can just go onto anyone of those. No the episode that I'm looking for watch it, and I feel that feeling of just like comfort, and it makes me feel better. Because I know the feeling that I get when I watched that specific episode like the episode where Buffy has to kill angel and the devastation. It's just it's like what I'm depressed. I watched that episode and I'm like. At least I didn't have to kill my love, you know. Wow. She leaves town at goes to LA does Buffy kill her podcast co host. She doesn't have a podcast, and that didn't exist. Okay. So I'm safe. That's what I'm hearing. Yeah. But your significant other you might have to kill someday only if she tries to end the world and takes the sword out of a Catholic as he's going to swallow the world and the only way to save the world is to kill her and send you to hell, I know your significant other and she's not that motivated. We'll be fine. Yeah. Here's some other just real quick self help tips that people don't think of brush your teeth. Yeah. He's something healthy make a meal like like make pageantry out of don't just grab the chips or the bagel bites in the microwave actually cook a meal there. Take a shower shave. Take a walk around the block go to the gym it ramps up from here exercises. Great self care. I'm not going to do that. But you're right. It is great self care. It is. And also joining us sports team any kind of club team is also great self-care to people don't think about that a lot especially adults. I talked to a lot of people over the age of fifty over the age of forty because I'm at that age like I don't know what to do for self care, and I say like you've ever considered joining a book club or a bowling league. And they're like, but does not like for young people know, and one of the things that you turned me onto a long time ago, which is in your jeopardy theme is a lot of sports bars and bars like during the week. We'll have trivia nights, trivia nights are a lot of fun. And you don't have to sign up just have to show up you show up, and you can have fun, and listen, which really cool about them that I found out that most people just suck. They suck it trivia night. But it's a lot of fun. There's always like a couple of teams are taking it really serious. I'm evil take it ridiculously seriously right Elise land. But at least half the room is just like, trivial, hard and. But they're still having. I've I've never placed in regular trivia above second to last place second to last place. So you beat somebody one time only because one of the sections was Disney one of the sections was Disney. Yeah. That's how I got second-last participate in a Buffy the vampire. Yes, I many times ever never placed below fourth first second third and fourth. Wow. So you did get I when it was very specific to it amount of knowledge that you had I only place I the one time where I was alone. So if I want to take first trivia contest, I should find like bullshit trivia. Yeah. Because I would place I it was mental health trivia. Could you imagine you we would dominate it was dominated mental health trivia, not only would we dominate. But like if any of the stereotypes, and we should have mental health trivia night somewhere. We should start that. This is an excellent idea. We should have a little contest or something contests. Contest mental health. Put the how do we only do something that people are going to Google Google? I've got the first question though, and they won't be able to Google I figured it out, Michelle. All right, everybody using his show at psych central dot com. Send us an Email with the nicest thing that somebody did for you to help you cope with your own mental illness. So a nice story about a friend a caregiver, a stranger all stories are welcome pleased in them to show at psych central dot com. And if we use it on the air, we'll send you stickers 'cause we're chill like that. Or talking mental health t-shirt Gabe that is. So mean, why you gotta be mocking the talking mental? I'm not. I'm not mocking them saying, we should send them more than stickers. Gabe. All right. I will revise it. The winner the best story. The most moving and meaningful story will get bipolar schizophrenic and a podcast care package, including more than just stickers. But all of the other stories that we use on an upcoming show would just get stickers fair. But you have to actually write a good story. A good stool say my buddy gave me a kit Kat, and I was so happy about it unin you can. But you're not gonna win. I we're not gonna use it on the show. And now, I wanna kick cat if some downstairs sweet that's off to thank you. Everybody for tuning into this week's episode of polar schizophrenic a podcast if you are on I tunes. We would love your five star review write a review like use your words, tell people why they should listen, and please share us on social media Email us to your friends. Help us. Go worldwide famous and finally if you work for BuzzFeed or know, anybody that works for BuzzFeed, where's our love. Please. Write a story on us. We will see everybody next week on. Supposed to yellow bipolar schizophrenic. Pullers gives the podcast. Thanks everybody for tune in. And we will see you next week. You've been listening to bipolar schizophrenic and a podcast if you love this episode don't keep it to yourself head over to I tunes or your preferred podcast after subscribe rate review to work with Gabes, go to gave Howard dot com to work with Michelle schizophrenic dot NYC for free, mental health resources and online support groups and over the psych central dot com. Shows official website is psych central dot com slash B. S? You can Email us at show at psych central dot com. Thank you for this share wider. All right, ready. True. All right.

Michelle Gabe Howard New York City Starbucks Vanessa Carlton schizophrenia Wales Google Whitney Houston Anna Michaud Vince BuzzFeed McDonald Cuffy snowboarding bipolar disorder bipolar Carson
Edward Norton  On Creative Process, Creative Struggle, and Motherless Brooklyn (#393)

The Tim Ferriss Show

2:03:09 hr | 10 months ago

Edward Norton On Creative Process, Creative Struggle, and Motherless Brooklyn (#393)

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Tim Connect the APPS US the most inlet fire team so they can act fast every opportunity and here's the really beautiful ganged developer for help so as a nontechnical person you can piece active focusing on the stuff that you're good okay so that's it join more by going to our special link Zippier dot com slash tim that's ziprecruiter dot com slash. Tim Hey just one thing tim this is Michael From this episode is brought to you by Super Fat Nut butters I've got two boxes of them actually fuel for a few months now I was pretty slammed at this afternoon I had a Wifi thirty two hundred to three hundred calories each depending on which ingredient cocktail you eat because their bunch of different types are really easy to transport and throw them in a backpack or pocket I love these things the first time get them you have to unscrew the top you get about ninety percent out of it that way and then you tear the Pouch on box and you'll get two pouches of each flavor that way you gene percent off when you go to one more time super fat dot com slash job to interview an attempt to deconstruct world class performers to tease out the you can find him on twitter at Edward Norton he is one of the most celebrated actors of his motherless Brooklyn which he wrote directed produced and stars in will be released on lot related to creative process creative struggle and so on in this episode the End Environmental Sustainability Ventures his hit a lot of home runs we don't cover performance raised more than five hundred million dollars for US nonprofit organizations before being acquired and machine learning to the analysis of audience engagement signals from the media and advertising industries had Nielsen data within their pricing metrics he is the Founding Board Member of the Maasai Wilderness Edward Really seems to do it all and in this wide ranging conversation explore creative struggles both inside and outside film if you'd like more Edward after this episode you can listen to I think if just for the musical on it's absolutely outstanding Edward Welcome back to the show love nineteen ninety nine and this is an interview where I'm going to ask you questions but I wanna I would go so far as to say a book Snob in the best way possible she recommends me perhaps one same book which was motherless Brooklyn and a film adaptation of some type been made and I wanNA packed head or why it grabbed your attention sure so back home to New York and and I love about New York is the density of your it's not like a company town like La Who Knew Jonathan Letham and on she said he's a friend of mine and he you know he's got this New Book Austin Brooklyn and I stopped you had me terrific I have to read it and so I and you know revealing our age I I it was it was Xerox I before pdf you actually had to print something on paper on a copier you know it's funny because I lionel the character motherless Brooklyn has many of the same you know you're sort of because he's narrating his own story to you because mind at the center of the story Letham he he pulls off the thing that we all tried to do in books in art and music laughing you're sympathetic you're impressed it's just like the most reductive sense you you and then from there becomes this this we'll obsessive compulsive components of it the vocalisations let's but I think what Jonathan achieves is everybody final center that deals with our behavior and are and with the impulses that we wish we could control better so turrets an and our our the difficulty we have navigating ourselves and that just nailed an actor I just was greedy I was like I want that Gig I want the part it presents all the media's challenges for an actor it's paradoxical roll okay so let me hop in for a second here because I really want to Oh you quoting someone else but in one of the interviews I read in prep for Lionel on on one hand is such an unusual character but on the other order in inner worlds or or perhaps even dueling in our world right and I'm not yeah and we we we kept in the film it's one of the then the part of his head that has the inhibition fights his his conscious self fights the attempts to restrain it the voice in his head yells at him and names Him Bailey it's it's in your head you're such a fucking idiot like why you know and you being a meditative the noisy mind right it's like the noisy a piece of our head that criticizes the the actions that another don't discuss as openly or actively as a even though I know how skilled you are I was I was very nervous to pull off and you you you not only pulled it off and the the main characters but the humanity and the drama and the tension and everything that I really know very little about I don't know the backstory but if we look at nine hundred ninety nine then we jump forward we start to happen because you out I just want to point out to people look like it went in phases lives and longest climbs how in the initial hook they said was character bandwidth to really seriously contemplate it but much like I would reread the book I would think about the character I even when I wasn't actively trying and reduce it down in select pieces of it and what are the best pieces of Lionel in in about two thousand three in two thousand two sorry I I did a run of work and then I did a play in New York for the rest of the year I did out Lanford Wilson's burn this title and satisfying year of creative worked for me or do each other and we'd come up together and that was really gratifying I I spent the whole year working in a gear it was sort of like why run another five miles until it hurts I feel good I I really want to take a a substantial break and in two thousand three I just Asian training and and got my pilot's license and it was it was great it really cleared my head it a you kind of feeling and when I sat down to look at it again I realized there he's had Edward could I ask pause for one second you taking that break and we're commit to ABCD or e perhaps not but there are many people who fantasize I've had good examples in my life my you know my dad is like an incredibly a lawyer he was a corporate litigator he was a US attorney a he's had a remarkably rich tapestry thread to everything he's done but I've really watched my dad over the years sorry cartridges for play tanks or am I gonNA play like what I call the pleasures of staying very says of his adult life and and I kind of aw even as a kid you absorb you absorb when your parent is turned in it I think as you get older and you have kids yourself you you forget I I had an awareness that my dad's happiness was often pegged I'm one of the luckiest people in the world because I get to work I get to do you know work WanNa why do I wanNA turn this into a career you know what I mean why would I turn you know what am I what am I chasing leg if I'm satiated or if doc careerist copper top you know what I mean right the freedom to the comes with this Gig the the freedom to like now I've got the time what's my reason for not doing it I don't have one so competitiveness voices of aspiration wing plaudits affirmation applause? You know like the voices from outside but really the truth is like the ones that master you are the and I think it comes it comes in but I replaced the consumption in my work with the consumption in learning like in I had been doing feel Kinda like play play acting which weirdly it with you know alternate consequences to screwing it up you know what I mean it's like it's mean 'cause I've always found I get some of my things that are meditative that are not sitting with your legs crossed trying to clear your mind so pot you know piloting great meditation for me absolutely eradicates they take off and landing in particular I'm sure there's a metaphor in this somewhere you are seriously on deck when you're taking off and landing that plane and I think obliterates atomised distraction right because you you must then you get yourself up into the sky and you're floating and somehow that Adams Asians I think about it's real Daniel Conman thinking fast thinking slow like you're just watching the landscape go by and it's scuba diving but it's amazing how quickly piloting kind of with acting you take this sabbatical you come out with a clear mind and age into something cinematic what else what else were you will sometimes I think people don't even realize the degree to which the sound mix and the music aces shit like it it really it is astonishing how important that ah film it's just not it functions in the mind of the reader way than when you're receiving the sensory you know being encompassed China literally transliterated the book into a posing a Piano Concerto for guitar you know you have to completely change the can you pollack with one of the great performances by an actress ever and it really things in possess them and coming to an acceptance of loss and permanence it's a there's none of the narrative plot that's in the film is embedded within the book ritual observations and Meditations on impermanent did into a narrative and cinematic experience it's totally and create something new unto itself so when I said to him like look instead it's about guys in the modern world who feel like they're living in a pocket of Brooklyn that has never screen and have guys in Fidora's talking that way with practices floating by you and if you go in that gear then Lionel doesn't have to be taken seriously either and think gag and I didn't WanNa do motherless Brooklyn like the Blues Brothers you know what I mean I didn't flex sometimes poignant and affecting and that wasn't going to be there and so I said to Jonathan like you know in the book world of the books you love the films we love and otherwise he wasn't like for one second he may think about that you write a book people say they love have to come up with UN different mystery plot because the book is about the Yakuza uh-huh and without and he was like I love it you know he's like I love it like it I I can't really overstate how rare it is for someone to be that five years after he published the book I got so this would have been after you've revisited it after -fornia can't do things I had this kind of clarity that like said it in the fifties and that and once that I had been chewing on for a long time totally unrelated motherless Brooklyn was social history that was really really interested in and in coach how do you approach the density of what was going on. It's what happened in New York Robert Moses his sort of its own original Lionel can be the conveyance into Lionel can we can take Jonathan's he can become the conveyance into this very dense and complex thing so these two things Suv Robert Moses for people won't spend a we a Robert Moses incarnate in this film played by Alec Very Very very good book by Robert Caro there's a big section which was that was my first encounter with the story of Moses but secretly he was essentially darth Vader he ran New York City like a like an autocratic Caesar and the whole physical landscape Newark's transformation in that era was do from the outset all of those things or was that a byproduct of challenges I'm I'm not really totally joking I was kind of it was a greedy actor sort than I did I was turned on by the challenge of adapting it house to be that sort of freewheeling in it between books but really just be of motherless Brooklyn a number of years because I went through writer's block and I and I got I was happy with it then I good for me the studio executive that I was friends with being in and and he literally said to me look think about the movies that we also in unforgiven like he kept citing all these examples of like you know they they take that big swing and and he was like e kind of said to me older you know and he just was like you can do this and I kind of did for me and it was sorta like I he urged me across into obsess on the time line but I'm so curious to get an idea of the time since related to directing the film roughly so if I was because normally six but by and large in my case I never come back to them we're a much like your dad in a sense very multifaceted how this at the summer of two thousand and three and I wrote like sixty or seventy pages like they were like this is really really cool and then I got horribly offs a compelling way to get lost in the Merck you anybody who watches Chinatown and tells me the first time zero in fact I've tracked it there's a very specific scene where he's in the car with Faye he he he he thinks that what's going on is all about the water and of course it's the getting lost in deep conversation is actually part of the point asked is about how difficult it is to see where adequately I think is their strength is they really do remind us there are things going on in the you know but but I I wanted emerged from it or bring people out of it in a way that is it all it put it in the drawer and I was like I just need a break and then literally really quick it's a little independent former due out quick none come right back to this right and then Scott free and she wanted to do it and suddenly like a making a film for six months one thing after another kept coming in and then that thing in the drawer that you haven't figured out and who later helped me embrace it I should directed had a certain is true I have a feeling might have just been sticking a fork in me thing that laugh at in retrospect which is he cited a specific director Paul like and he just whether it was conscious or not and I I took it out and and he he did kind of put a deadline on me he was like I agree how about we just agree like you'll get And I pulled it out I looked at it I talked to some other college thesis I wrote the large bulk of the rest of it in like two or three weeks the anonymous executive anonymous Toby Keith Warner Brothers announced the business of movies is sort of like inside baseball exceptions to sort of the the the reductive cliche about something and people in this day and age are constantly it's been this incredible stalwart champion of my project for over a if figure out with me how to get made and he didn't have the collateral to get it made I like the produce orioles struggle the writer struggle is over but the produce oriels struggle was at least five all supported throughout we were constantly worded let's let's on earth would you hit these roadblocks what what what were the types of feedback honestly I think no one can ever take for granted it it doesn't matter it's risky it's risky and when someone's coming it's kind of the China town like story about New York City and its urban development O it is start crossing and you cannot Chinatown l. a. confidential was ah meets L. A. confidential the more accessible the hell are you talking about like you know you're you're definitely like describing nope please bring us the next one you know what I mean how can this be so tough I understood why it was tough you know pursuing projects where my agenda was will just be one seeing is maybe almost like essential zeitgeist movies like fight like like some actor on a run of gigantic the same and you can't unfortunately you you can't you can't so you know any any number you can you can you can do it in some measure hey you know what I mean but I needed slightly more than that and so it was tricky you question about writing process see you pull out this dusty Um look like do you just start spitting out anything that comes in writing very very difficult and so if I if I let something that I couldn't quite find my way through may have been turned into a mountain working on that look like and feel like you will the really interesting thing was when I read and it was making me laugh you know I was when you when you push something off it starts to become monolithic you know I I read it and find and kind of have like this is this is so much fun like I went back to my cards 'cause my issue wasn't a character issue wasn't sat down on a huge drug and a map them all out and I kind of looked at the node that this I did kind of almost Rubik's cube ing with some people and it was like Blake that really wasn't that big deal at all I just needed tres wrote rounders produce the illusionist and it was like it was if you like remember David Libyan saying at some point like I said something they'd lead goes I don't beat what's wrong with that Oh you know and and it was like they really skilled and really really good human beings also co creators along like serious tradecraft pros you know they really are like the so they helped me punch through it and the funny thing like I was actually thinking women experiences too I don't I don't know by certainly see it in a lot of my guy friends but in what we've been talking about I can actually kind of recognized if I'm honest this was actually like the flaring of a very like galvanized me you know I I kinda was like you're not giving it to that guy no no way me right and that's not necessarily like a quality that that that's live competitive at a competitive attitude within creative work it's really stupid like like construct of competitiveness that is it to creative work than it is in figure skating where it's like subjectively soaring figure a competitive matrix around Any kind of same time like it it galvanized me and it's funny because when we're talking about come in I'm not working and you know are People GonNa Forget about me are you into this kind of confidence and there's a component of that competitive too because in a weird it's like you're listening to someone blather on about something in the back of your head going ovation but it it when you say like souls or developing a musculature that you're proud of right if it's if it's like it's interesting the way that it it's interesting the way that it it dials down to me on the stories you tell yourself which create the lenses you've done so like when you famously like with with the you can do things within body transformation learning dispute or anything right yeah that that I carry within me whether other people see it or not bowl even if they never have the opportunity hopefully train because the way they will carry themselves through the world male female doesn't you built and added to with many different skills that it makes perfect sense to me and also the putting aside the value judgment they are meaning they exist and ultimate to it as as one example get the script on long ago talk about how they've shifted from looking at things on a value scale of beautiful doesn't mean you you ignore morality or good Dr and Transmute it into gum there's frustration at great we don't associated it just not a pleasant feeling 'cause you want you're sorta like it's frustrating not to get to do this with this doc on me in the sense that it was I wanted to do it and the kind of hypnotic movie experienced it really reminds people it was like it was like the shadow force it was like a dark matter force in my life I could take another year off or you're gonNA point you know because it might happen this year and it sort of it throws like like those old models Komo life even though it was not happening let this Mirage is this a mirage or is it turn but when you were engaging in the produce made in that it was going to get made or was it more of a Oh committed were you to sort of willing to happen I you don't have I don't have cards to maybe I will just direct this now and go to selfishly I really felt connected to the I had a moment of this all went on so long that I think gotten this done in in probably one conversation before they had really started making commitments to putting things in the theater and I I I didn't WanNa get hung up on sort of the lake of making it only for a streaming presentation you know I think there's a lot of really really new and diverse I felt very low about it at times yeah very very science make a big pivot on or let go of and become an emergent to me post two thousand sixteen and it's Warner brothers and we've got to make those movies that's that's part of our tradition and yours is one we're gonna I will create a way that we can get this done which is amazing you now that I've got this job I'm not going to tighten up you know what I mean superstars born any did with me you know he he was like show and you know in so that was a shift and then also I found a called a lot of chips figured out some very clever ways to pull together Jack I've followed Gregg Post Post Two thousand sixteen you've seen sixteen that suddenly toby was ringing me up and saying man a lot of what and fourteen and I think that maybe that was part of why in just work for love of the project but it felt toothy two people it felt cast of actors and that helped me get made to you have an incredibly star studded it behind the cameras and working on the film and other Jeff I think the phrase creative co-financing found creative ways to co-finance is you can never you really can't hedge off the risk of an lately with Magic Mike realized like we can make this film for like under six million start shooting the film knowing that we're in the black on it and therefore spend what you can pre sell the foreign on that's the only way to bankrolls like legendary that can do big slate financing with the studio because you're so if you're going to people and saying hey we put some money in my film right but I accompany a technology company that I was an original investor in secondary trading in that company and and I and I basically they couldn't but I I was able to a secondary deal in this company that they were very interested in and we all felt that considered it basically told him I'll get you access to this deal company this is also a great example of where really tangible way right because you've got you've been exercising other in some ways to get done a project in what many people view as your outside of my creative filmmaking life component on my life one hundred percent the passion project done there's no no doubt about it while and I think I can did for this one and and and I will it's not replicable don't even want to

Robert Moses tim facebook Lionel developer New York Robert Caro Jonathan darth Vader Alec Michael one second five hundred million dollars three hundred calories one hundred percent ninety percent three weeks five years
Heavyweight Boxer Tyson Fury

Hotboxin' with Mike Tyson

44:38 min | 11 months ago

Heavyweight Boxer Tyson Fury

"The only truly own in this life is moments in time. This is a moment in time for me that will never be raised oftens what happens this is always going to be my time. This'll be my moment time because I lived here. I was a Polish this episode of Hot box brought to you by audible the head to audible dot com slash hot boxing or you can use your phone and text hoppy box into five hundred five hundred to start your thirty day free audible trial everybody welcome to a very special episode of Hot Fox and I'm Evan in Britain. Now Mike Tyson Mike. We've got to champ the champion here Tyson. Fury Aka the Gypsy kings into building a thank all we love it was about that Gypsy lifestyle with all interested in seeing on television my big fat Gypsy this it added is the guy about <hes> Brad Pitt stuff from snatch. I was actually did it do you. You think that depict the Gypsy culture well not really now television Dave Stefan TV to sell does hours so you'd never really get to know what it was like of a TV show of course those with the history of the Gypsies goes back thousands of years. They've been around since crave. Yeah yeah been around since Christ very they've been moving from country to country every country go around the world you find Gypsies. They've been around since the beginning Eh dawn of time people come from all over the world. All different types breed seed generations people obviously come from England's ended up being born and raised their way of life in the jets a religion what is not religion no. It's like a culture. It's just sort of of the top or anything we WANNA do is fight. Which is why become boxer were named after my named after my guess I I should tell you how my dad was a professional boxer in the late eighties early nineties white on his heroes you visit when I was born? August twelfth nineteen eighty-eight I came into the world and it was eight weeks. Premature was I was dying -sposed to live when I lived said I'M GONNA call you up to my favorite heavyweight Tyson on the doctor said No. That's not going to be a good name. He's not going to be very big this guy anyway anyway bomb pounding wait. Oh it's tiny wow on a go up to be six foot nine and two hundred sixty five the crazy shit unbelievable feel. We started off Bachman. What did that feel like? It felt really good. You know started boxing. I never heard me I much until I was like sixteen years old but I was brought around box and when dad was going to the gym at go to the gym we've ain't hitting the bugs knocking stuff over Jim of brought trump around it. My brothers cousins Lund's everybody boxes so we always to fight each other as kids growing up <hes> not as high as I was going to be heavyweight jumping a little oil from being a young kid when people say oh what do you want to be when you grow up. I WANNA be whatever they wanted to be. The ask me what I want to be on the heavyweight champion of the world enough. I wasn't going to settle for anything else all steps I'd go. That's what it is. That's what it is. A one must be such a while Jane at think about when I was a fighter and I must have been such a wild journey fighting with yourself off one guy wanted to. I don't want this guy to take my place. Always wondering you know you hurt yourself. Get cut off. I hope my career is not over awesome before it even starts a lot of things. There's a lot of motivation motivating factor. When you're young absolute I was like we had Vander Holyfield l. then last week and he talked about when he started boxing as a little kid he said I wanna be heavyweight champion of the world and he lost his first fight and he thought got it was over? He thought it was all over as trainer. Who was the head of the boys and Girls Club? Atlanta was like evanger. That's not off table yet. Man We all lose on the path to our greatness you know and it's about overcoming and never quitting never giving up so fighting is a huge part of the Gypsy culture. Maybe just the fighting spirit. How `bout you don't you're not the first Gypsy heavyweight champion they must have been gypsy band knuckle clue champion heavyweight that will a guy called Gypsy JEM Mace he was he was the first way champion onto crowds anything fifty Bama the champ US correct from Norfolk called him as well from Jamesy? That's amazing good looking on like me well. You've there's been a lot of Gypsy chump is not just heavyweights has been middleweights from all over the world different weight categories or emerging you grow up fighting fighting. It's in your blood. You're going to be pretty comfortable in a fight. No matter where you are whether it's in a ring or in the street somewhere <hes> what is the the spiritual practice Sir mindset of the Gypsy culture. Did you grow up with with a sense of a higher airpower believing Christian. I believe we're Raleigh for a reason. I believe every fan I do. My Life is already plumped sat been so many things happen to me for my life and if the walls no higher power than it would be possible for me to be even in the flight wild like brought me off the canvas round twelve when I was knocked out to raise me. Hey on that to fly Tom for a reason. I'm I believe the second return for me. In boxing three era during I was dying with depression anxiety Zeituni opponent one hundred pounds I was taking drugs on a daily basis. I was drinking on a daily basis. I was gone was finished. The only place I ever fall I've ever ever and was in a room somewhere. It was terrible. I was thinking about suicide every day. How how about I I was heavyweight champion of the world twenty seven years old Ad Money Fame Gloria family achievements kids everything running so smoothly book it didn't matter because mental health would bring? ETA's if you let it absolutely we talk about you know when I was young kid and I was fighting going to everyone thought everything full intent thoreau. NFL Shit this and that and then just an allusion then really manner. What was it Tyson that helped bring you? You're out of that boxing boxing Bromley back because I was living very wild on you know when you when when you lose the passion to breathe fresh air anymore and you don't WanNa live your a terrible place <hes> on I remember I was in a I was in high performance car. Ferrari was heading towards bridge to arrive that big with custom made for you know it wasn't close loss. I ah I headed towards bridge. <hes> high-speed ninety miles an hour on I was going to crash into a bridge before I hit this bridge. I got about maybe five hundred from the bridge. I'm ahead a voice. I physically heard a voice. Speak to me and say stop. Don't do this. I pulled over. I remember I was shaking. I was crying. I was thinking I knew I was totally. Ghana didn't think I'd ever come back like like boxing was the last thing I advocate about this position. I don't remember thinking you know. If I'm ever going to get right again. I'VE GOTTA GET FIT. I've got to lose weight white losing the weight. Come back for turn to the fight game for me for my health trained moral was getting better and better by the day <hes> I lost weight quickly. I was feeling good feeling great again. All I wanted to get back in the ring. I felt like I had a lot mall. All to to offer Malta give retirement walls unfold me on three years out the ring and it was it was horrible three years three years years of active life and I thought I'm going to get back in during going to fly again and let's keep you tied to flat this riot a full. Oh well titles on I stripped of move in seven days and vacated the rest vacated the rest of them. I came back out a couple of he knock over fights and then jump straight by Ken Weaver Wilder those are I fight back. Wow and that fight really I feel like captivated captivated the world that anyway happy after really broad by van longtime will be happy like that people very happy. Yeah it was so exciting you know to see two titans back in the ring clash and like that you know the time it was a breath of fresh air because there was a nephew I in England goal Joshua issue and was Trumpian and it was unbeaten on wild was over here he was in UK and there was talking back and fall over here like bullshit the didn't I wanNA fight each other so I think it was more Joshua dinovite wilder Robert Anita way around so I thought well. I'm going to give me to fight so they look too. Many thought this guy is finished. He can't fight no more. Can you lose all wait and I've all time out during abuse in your body and then come back to this level. Maybe almost finished Goldie. Let me mindset was a strong belief that I was going to win. If you believe it I with the mind any achievable angry and I believed so my children never ever doubt myself in the flight no matter who is with who I always believe I'm GonNa win so so M- way I'll find a way we'll put on a great fighting. People looking forward to the yet re much Y- is that in the Books Yet Zealand about before you fade three-match rematch yeah fighting on September Fourteenth Vegas Guy in some Swedish guy called auto wallet. He's number four ranked. Wba Unbeaten in twenty six six six sample so he might take a couple of rounds to get him Outta. Did you read that Book House of Rothschild. I gave you the book three you know between two hour drive to and from work my family trying to get my workouts and I I just don't have time to read a book right now. Brother audible audible you can do while you're cleaning the house and your teeth taking a bath. It's constantly any place anywhere all over the world is information fluid inflammation audible. We'll get you your genius. I wish I made it audible for audiobooks. Doug can do it anytime anywhere audible. Anytime anywhere. Audible has the world's world's largest selection of audiobooks audio entertainment including audible originals with a convenient audible APP. You can listen anytime anywhere anywhere and on any device your phone computer or tablet. I'M GONNA listen to this book the Truth About Espn. I'm thinking about playing in the NFL again and if I can learn how to block defensive Lineman with the power of my mind I'll be totally unstoppable. Start Listening today with a thirty day audible audible trial choose one audiobook and to audible originals absolutely free. That's right visit audible dot dot com slash hot boxing. That's hot boxing H. O. T. B. O. X. I. N. or you can use your phone own and text hot boxing to five hundred five hundred. That's right. Just use your phone to text hot box H. O. T. B. O. X. I am to five zero zero dash five zero zero so twenty any seven your world champion and that was the pinnacle. That was the peak of the mountain that your whole life you've been striving to get to write what was it you felt as though you weren't being fulfilled you know I suppose I suffered so do of depression and anxiety my whole life from being a boy to being among but I always had a goal of becoming heavyweight champion of the world and he always brought let me back out of the darkness to achieve that goal nothing else mattered tragedy. Go on in life lots to happen that may be good of put me off track of being everywhere John Elway saw sidetracked all of that and concentrate on the job. Wasn't they said right you gonNA fight which go for the for the world championship. It was like when I win. I'M NOT GONNA have a goal anymore so I almost knew going into the fight. I was GONNA come down. I was going it'd be a disaster. I was very depressed. Go into the flight going into training camps knew it was going to beat this guy and I said to. I remember saying to me me brothers win lose or drawers that are probably won't take enough to this release like wildwoods bucks told you live to get to this position mission. You're going to just walk away feeling any mobile Alabama. I was very ill going into that fight. I wasn't well minded goes in <hes> <hes> beats him for five minutes. I was happy on an want to go back to the change. Is this a one five world title belts abate. The second longest get straightened heavyweight champion industry what next I don't have a purpose anymore. Finish I F we Macau Kin I wanted to fill phone love with allusion of myself and Shit Really Hell Fuck and you're like conquer more dominate Roy Moore Demo about Llama. Let me have the best girl in the world. We have the best seat in the fucking resume you meet a fucking car went. The best plan obvious looking also self absorbed. You know what I mean. I couldn't fuck enough. Girls can have enough fight can have enough faith outside the ring yeah. It wasn't enough yeah yeah. It's so interesting because I very much relate to what you're saying. That feeling of what's next this is it. This is everything thing I've I've every bit of my life that I've dedicated to achieving this thing and I did it now. What the fuck night but that's just my negative devouring everything because we don't have no outlook on self love back them so easy to say that it felt I love you find so many things to do to self and it sounds like in those three years out and then finding that passion again you tapped into something a little deeper yourself hundred percent you know the first time I was boxing first career? Yeah I call it to careers. The first time was about achieve in my dreams giveaway Joe Middle World and all sorts of which talked about all power and what if all this stuff but when I got there I fought like this is not shed. It wasn't what I expected in from England definitely hard because inland they look at boxes in the fight of a total different different perspective. They're like gods out. How how do you live their life in England? You can't go unaware exactly. I know he can't GonNa win. You can't go there waiting for you yeah yeah. That's true you hang out here. It'd be forty thousand people waiting for you in England. They don't fuck around. That's crazy what they're fighters their soccer players and stuff rugby pleaded with you two percent. How many people where Did you autumn in America right yeah how many people from UK came over seven thousand it was a lot of British fund struggled but like the second career? It's not about winning belts or anything. I've just you know a box now because eloped to fly finally found what I love to do with them to be involved in England fights and I'm <hes> take punches and people buck you know I go into these fights and I don't give a folk unlike lose on the crazy character. I don't care if the hit me. I don't care what they do. I'm going to enjoy myself. I'm going to have to fight. They're all serious like Oh my God. I'm like doing dances wave. I'm uh-huh and yeah singing to notice that Karen anymore. You know I've gone past the stage of caring about flying. Who's your last fight a Boxton Vegas in June fifteen bucks? A German Guy Calls Tom Schmaltz. That's right and I watched all of that. prefight stuff man in your energy was unbelievable said smiling yeah you were putting on a show Britney. Entertainment Business was in Las Vegas. Oh is that on the show did one the Fi- to the next one offense never been as happy as my whole career. Never I'm so happy right now so mentally well so unconcerned about what people think of me but think think about the ruis and I think he's a win over. Joshua was very good win two weeks notice how you find them. I would tie one on beyond me Back News Eva one job. He's not write-off pop pop pop pop. That'd be the easiest Fi ever let love. Is that if you're looking forward to. I'm GonNa find this guy on fourteenth then we're going to go for the wild all the rematch February twenty-second Allan this time I'm GonNa leave it to the just going to go over within four or five rounds then we're gonNA move on to fight anybody thinking. Thank you again for you fault somebody else. If all one flight before he fought dominick Brazil won round one round knockout. He's like Louis whole teas and he's next flight so we we met yeah yeah. I think now go quicker this time. No Louis all tastes one hundred and forty seven years old. You know how old he is from when <hes> Cuba they they fight forever this so just keep doing annotate <unk>. So what do you think about like back in the day. Mike Cat Fifteen fights in a year before that sugar ray Robinson had like a hundred fights in a year and now how many fights as you have in a year maybe three that's crazy is crazy but when you start off at the beginning you can have all these funds in my first year as a professional nine fights. The mall is tap at the mall. The fights become less than eight more time to build a mall time to sell them. I wish I could fight ten times once a month for big old Alfred Today Obama campaign like Joe Louis as you do and they won't do it specifically possibly getting hurt. You know they don't do that that anymore. I'd love to keep very active like if I can get three fights yeah. I think that's me being very active time. Inactive one fight per year one fight in three he is just craziness seems like you get out of rhythm. Get Long Dot com much fit and you lose all rusty and he didn't know a couple of weeks to get back where he was yeah. Where's this fight coming up? This flight sought new new arena in Vegas T. mobile's onto hoga business a brand new one year for like twenty thousand eight awesome. How are you dealing with you? Know your success and continuing to build yourself up. Open your new career like I said I don't see a success. Don't see any financial live day to day. You know what when you're like me I could be happy Pinot of suicidal evening yeah so when you live your medication no medication training compare. Oh revived drugs test in the world then you've just trained my medicine has become training. I used to like just train for a fight. Go Out of camp upon a way not train. Just H it all the time during the day on the second time coming back like I'm staying in shape the whole time training every day for me not just for sport for me to keep myself mentally well and strong on the training camps and life style of boxer has become very easy for me now box two hundred and sixty five pounds walk around two hundred and sixty five pounds well before I was walking around free injured and seventy pounds or more forums pieces to three seventy. I'll never staying shape. Uh in all seasons you were violent have finally after fighting three and four times a year like I was just boom always fighting now and train them on his school Gordon Drinking. Just I didn't have didn't have good life skills back then yeah. That's what I'm saying. Brain saw aw man brain should staying shake yeah keep running. Don't don't go to the gym you just keep running every day your car and your yeah keep the cardio yeah you know when he was doing all this cooking all the time. Did you catch many diseases laughable. That's part of being the guy that gets all the girls to notify me. If you dare guy walked everybody that comes with it too so I was recently over in Spain and someone said Oh no don't fuck Gal. She's got happy. She said well she folks. May She's GonNa Committee. Gonorrhea visuals curtain oh FARC according kissing disease when they my my Um. I'm one of this year my fucking your lymph nodes and the AD cooking glance bowl. Well look like a fucking told told he as big glands yeah. Wow couldn't believe I feel like I was dying relief. Oh pain like no other you don't believe in which paint eight and he showed up with some kissing an opposing that to talk it goes both ways you get both ways either either one both ways. Thankfully I've never contracted and this guy looked out lucked out until you get any brothers and sisters got four brothers. No sisters five brothers knows how while fighting all the time all the Tom May and my younger brother we used to fight every day all the time and younger brother and he was also a professional boxer. Sir Fighter had nine profile yeah but he had a bud. I had to retire from boxing would have been good. He was a <hes> Sh short compact and powerful heavyweight heavyweight yet hotel may was about six foot six foot six Fulton two hundred and fifty pounds. Yeah you have a family yeah. I got a wife. Five kids kids kid. You do Raymond your tablet. Turn kids got to work hard to Ondra son. Go tape going ten ten. What are you the lot to living living in England right yeah and did <hes> the cost have to live in high? They're expensive yeah. I would think so yeah. He lived the fucking live over there. I mean you gotta get together. Still are suppose he pay a a high tax bracket to live a safe place yeah margin if he lived in a third world country again stopped and killed every second on your doorstep hoping taxes so over there. It's claimed place to live quite safe. Spot it really what are you doing in. La I'm here in L. A. <hes> we've got some press for the flight to SPN studios on a bit awesome too but they're feel interviews and things about flights fight for September fourteenth to agent and put in a movie and do yeah. Oh yeah it'd be great good on the street over there and Gone GonNa sit and hang out to hang out with Jim set down the street now. We're just going to go back and do the show a call that down the street. Do you have any interest in that acting not really know how to know what the future also supporting pornographic navy the WHO host interesting what what do you see for life after boxing or even thinking that far yeah you're going to become a professional laker off the box. No don't get you a job that I I earn through so that'd be my ideal. Oh Kung due. There's healthy to me disease it out there. I want to do after boxing. I WANNA I WANNA start heavyweight eight five factory I'm bringing heavyweights from all over the world of them in in one facility shopping in each of her up on <hes> <hes> try and take him anyway jumpings love heavyweight training ground basically breeding ground love that it's awesome. It was a young fighter. What is your what are your options? How do you how do you get in? You just have to find a gym and you know you work with all the other fighters. Is that the best best situation suppose so you got to get to a gym. I am and people discover me. Eh One. I want you to something that happened. Yeah how did it well you grew up in. I grew up around boxes very easy for me to get involved in it. Yeah I'm of England bane of small place small country. It's like if any go toll and you're going to be selected two bucks for for the country and in comments all over the world so yeah I used to walk to the gym every day to me and my brother used to they used to ride a bike on on the train two hours three hours Roebuck <hes> so awesome what without them opportunities to do aw I maybe wouldn't even be today who knows so that's another thing I would like to. They open up a a amateur boxing club to give people opportunities Iot in my life. If it's definitely needed actually invite that the pay the box out in Nevada had no money alone free how to box uh yeah I mean that's I'm sure there's millions of kids who love that opportunity. You know have somewhere to go get instructed director or Bianca family of feelings you family and that family life and everybody knows what you're doing. Everybody got the I open. The friends and family got the Iowa. He's involved with the gym. He's one of the boys look out for them is just incredible lifestyle yeah Tyson. Is there anything you any questions you have for Mike is is there anything you're curious about Mike and his new life after boxing when life is pretty interesting and then then we'll go forward sneer life y'all's it's given your new Lisa Life. Yeah thank God for my last my last fucking like with the draft Eh. I don't even know how all this Shit Happen Man Without catastrophic action. Would you be to save money. You are today without experience Salani experience. You're live legend of living legend yeah. I Miss Glenn I'm living <hes>. I can't believe I wanted to die often. When I was young I gotTa Hate live-in? I get fifty three. I love living. I don't WanNA fucking die hate the faith they gotta die. Hi Now fell interesting. It is every day Balsamo now. Get some me absorbed my existence since you know and realize that life is a joke I took it to Syria hundred percent you know <hes> I dunno the long after this. I'll die so I won't exist anymore and then I have to go to the other. I WanNa see what that's like. I can't believe this energy the happiest guy than it doesn't exist. It may not live here no more but it has to go somewhere hundreds on them looking forward to now not for a long time yeah for whatever happens it happens. I'm looking for life is great food. Death has to be just as great life. Usually I think the worst the worst the worst day of my life right in my mother. My children died in the world. The worst day in my life was stay in life is still beautiful day if I if I don't <hes> take internalizing they'll won't leave me. My mother died about baby died. Why me if I don't look at it from that perspective life who always be the day was beautiful in life is precious on? It's beautiful just to wake up in the morning before before I used to take it all for granted grunted at in care and care about nothing. I didn't care about family friends relatives achievements how didn't care about four call. I just didn't care but now after going to Hallam buck appreciate fresh air on a glass of water grad smaller things in life too because when you've lost never know what you've really gotten till it's gone you felt the opportunity to be shot down. Come back and you really find out who your friends who the people are really behind who leaves who jumps often and everybody just loves a winner. Nobody wants to be around the loser. Nobody wants to be around him on his lost his mind so you really find out your friends <hes> people who call you in distress when you down and you're out you don't have any more to offer to them so I suppose I got cdot sign of everything without being eaten in a boxing auctioning I saw on the comeback. I have a smallest team ever the people who were there for me. When I was when I was out so yeah I keep it nice and small mile everyday? Whatever happens in life happens don't care we have to understand that being fired of the being detained with anything it's being in the light that we Afghanistan will be over soon? This is not GonNa last forever so why were at this moment while it's an enormous in this profitable have to make the best I can out of. That's what this is all about now with him. He has to make the best possible Moses Future Right now why he can. It's it's interesting hearing you say because I know this as well as that before. You said you didn't give a fuck about anything and now oh you don't care but in a different way it's like you're detached with love from it. All you know and I think that's an important. That's that's that's a difference you know but it's interesting because it's the flip side of the same coin you know going from a place of not caring about anything anything in your life in a destructive way and then coming to a place where you can not care about anything in life because you're not attached to anything or any specific outcome or how anything is supposed to be your look you know before you used to take everything and think Oh won't Nisa won't was never happy with what human nature we always want more. No matter what it is no matter how much you of something then you always searching for more things that's ego nature no doubt about it. It's the nature of the ego and I was like. I don't care if I lose everything. I don't care what happens. Nothing released ours anyway in life morning morning. Borrow it all goes. The only thing we truly own in. This life is moments in time. This is a moment in time for me. That will never be raised on no matter what happens this is always going to be my time. This'll be my moment. I because I lived here this. You know everything else this bag this walked. They close their logo. For what does it really matter your body. Body will go this is a shell but also inside oath to God lives Abso- forever definitely. Does you know maybe the maybe I'm maybe not living off. Eva's cool too yeah you. We know we all know that yeah maybe maybe <hes> stop human fucking fill in talking about and thinking about it though the mind sometimes you're you know what I mean. Maybe that's of cool enough to stop that the bliss yeah the theft not puts in but like you said before. Why are we have all these experiences and what we switches off after e closure is possible but I'll ultimate question what happens when you die? Maybe maybe we I reckon wake up with all the dream we is wake up. What do you think well like? I said before a practicing back to Senator Krisztian. The Bible says when you die all answers will be revealed and everything will be like almost an HD everything you wanted to now in your life will be onset but also says that will be accountable for every action we did no. I don't think I think even the Muslim of former Christian. I believe that when I took the taught obviously there's no good and no bad there's no reading the wrong leaving at the height of the velopment. We're not developed enough to understand why we did right or wrong. We don't understand. NFL fishnet agreed or ego. We don't understand that we can't even comprehend it. What am I doing here? What am I doing our Marino? I should be scared out no Miano you. I don't know what the call I know my mind and tell me everything is in my mind is just not reliable. Most of the time I liked the idea of you know when you die all the all the questions you have in life I for answered you know I believe that's part of the deal for sure the accountability thing I believe in that to an extent of of you know I think God is all forgiving and all accepting and you know at the end of the day it really comes down to your perception of yourself and your own ability to forgive yourself. You know that's the ultimate test because were the hardest on ourselves anyone will and because we don't have the half is pretty much yeah and we want to know everything we <hes> acceptance unknowing stuff to being smart. You know when you hurt someone you know. When you inflict damage you cause wreckage wreckage because pain? You know what that is. No matter what you do in your life though all comes down to you wherever you're zestful off fleet. Where you're you're a business? You've got a regular nine to five job. The biggest thing in the world is contentment who you are and what you are. I know plenty of rich people know billionaires millionaires and ninety nine point nine percent of them ain't happy fucking Mary on people but then I know people who work nine to five for minimum wages are so positive and so happy that goes by the Bulls so don't eight data bat position everybody else who's like super rich from whatever because they're helping contented with our life and that's around in and everybody in your some people are not meant to calm for had grabbed a concept happiness. Why do I search for happens? It's too. It's too difficult search for it so complex yeah I mean if the moment happinesses moments nobody can have a whole hour of happiness whole lifetime ten years of happiness yeah. How did I mean consistently happy for ten years? There's not a tenth of a second midpoint uh-huh what gone with air for the guy you know. This is not real. No I've been posting a lot out of this positive shit on instagram because I don't know what else to do. Social media then put positive should out there you know and sometimes it comes off off. I share my own experiences and people go like a Web. I'm sorry you're feeling down today or you're feeling angry today and I'm like I'm not fucking angry angry dude and I'm not feeling down those feelings and emotions come up yes but life is not about being happy and fucking excited site all the time you know we're on fucking wave of emotions. That's constantly moving and flowing and just because you're up one minute doesn't mean life his great and just because you're down the next doesn't mean life is shit. You know you gotta be functional for all moment. Exactly what I'm all their soul a blessing. It's all a blessing it's just our perception lamb clean now every now and FM clam feeling perfectly. I'm running. I'm working out. I'm eating. Everything's good and everything I say with GONNA call. What's going to happen to me laps? What's going to happen to make me want to get to some cocaine? Fuck a bitch. I'm GonNa Happen uh-huh child and my wife going to die. We're going to get divorced. What's GonNa what's GonNa what could add because I feel like? I'm invincible now. So what does it get. Where does it could happen to make me do that? And why am I even thinking about that would make me do that because one of my biggest fears getting high again going out fucking with people. I don't even know you know put my life in some stranger's hands the last the full took place where we've all been my biggest fear like you to send Mike is going back to drugs back to cocaine on. I know I can never go. I've gone addictive personality if I'm doing any financial four hundred percent but I'm like Oh oh I'm full control the we'll be controlled me so bad it really liquor but I'm I won't famine alcoholic our FAM- drug addict I'm nick. I'm everything but I have a feeling feeling my thick man. I'm proud to be an alcoholic but I'm a big alcoholic then my mind. I don't WanNa say that I'd rather be drug at the cooler to be the cocaine. I don't want to tell only by Malcolm. I'm not alcoholic devil for the Drink Barra football to alcoholic well well. You know those are such. It's such interesting labels because alcohol is really it's just the substance used to fill the hole but it it does a damn good job in crown. Fuck fuck you know those those substances that you know we think think make us feel good in the moment and then you realize that they're fucking destroying your mind body and spirit. I will say this alcohol and drugs. If you're suffering a mental health problems makes it go away for like five minutes but when you wake up the next day or don't even more too soon now me I'm never gonNa do it again later and then they sip was this thing ever invented today class H for show Mike said this before and it's totally true you you know you put a few guys in a room in a bottle of vodka few hours later. They're in a fistfight Kelly related to they're going to kill each other yeah and it's just amazing what alcohol can do smoke a joint list with five or six people they literally targeting what what are your feelings on cannabis. Do you stay completely away or you completely sober these days yeah yeah. I've never been a smoker to be honest. Have you dabbled holden. CBD now known psychoactive now. I've never the only drug wealth my choice was cocaine are painkillers or opiates really awesome. You know try those sear like three seventy doing coke. Ah Twenty doing what you should be happy heart them buff exactly I think it nearly did you know on the verge of having a heart attack her Bandana Tommy shoelaces without being out breath I would I look in the mirror having won a state such shadow from your former glory only a few years ago what happened to young cocaine for while you live in life and you path the mirror. You're looking whoa the reality sets who the fuck that well no good clean life is the best offensive puffy got thought alling nolting lips and Shit my lips and my nose the fuck it looks like a Leopard GonNa hurt me blisters all over my fucking faith and I do fucking coke fucking blisters. I look like a fucking disease-infested fucking farm it God I mean God bless you guys to solve for you know being scene clean and sober minded. You Know Tyson man. Thank you so much for coming traffic absolute pleasure. It's been my pleasure uh to have you here. Mike Great episode death after we got the chance have the champion warriors deep. We weren't real deep. You're welcome back anytime China town autumn segment yeah good luck in your next fight. Thank you very much. Do you want to let anybody let everybody know where they can find you and follow you yeah. I'm on Instagram Gypsy King. I'm on Twitter Tyson on the school theory awesome awesome. You heard it everybody. Hey that's it for this episode of Hot box and be sure to subscribe to our Youtube Channel Hot Boxing Mike Tyson Harith check out our website hot talks in PODCAST DOT COM until next time I'm Evan Britain and my tighten the man I'm the Gypsy Gypsy King and we're Outta here everybody by the guy's face this episode of Hot

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San Francisco 1906: The Great Quake and Fires

Stuff You Missed in History Class

37:18 min | 9 months ago

San Francisco 1906: The Great Quake and Fires

"This episode of stuff. You missed in history. Class is brought to you by the completely redesigned twenty twenty Ford Explorer. This is not a vehicle. That's going to take to the moon or to the the bottom of the sea but it's one that you can use for all kinds of exploration and adventure in your everyday life as you're going around town if you're traveling just going over to the grocery store to get everything you need for your kid's birthday party once again. That is the all new Ford Explorer. The greatest exploration vehicle of all time. Welcome to stuff. You missed in history class. A production of iheartradio's works Hello and welcome to the PODCAST. I'm holly FRY and I'm Tracy P Wilson Tracy is you know. I recently took a couple days off off. Sort of is still did some work but I went to one of my very favorite cities San Francisco I go to Francisco with some regularity and this has not happened and to me before but I noticed on this recent visit. One of the city's historical moments kept coming up in conversation in a variety of different places like with third lift drivers or like. So what would get up at dinner and I was like did somebody run an article And it also came up at the bed and breakfast where I like to stay when I'm in San Francisco Cisco which is the Monte Cristo which I am in love with And that BNB has its own really fun history. It was a Bordello. Saloon and then a speakeasy before it started its life. There's a hotel but one of the interesting things about it and went had come up in conversation with one of the staff. I was eating breakfast. was that it had been built in the eighteen seventies and it was one of the buildings things that survived the nineteen o six earthquake and fires that destroyed so much of the city lake came very close to this building but it remained intact and in two thousand one. In previous hosts era and Dobalina did an episode called histories unforgettable fires and all that episode they talked about a handful of significant fire incidents including the fire that ravaged San Francisco in one thousand nine six but today I thought it might be worth giving this particular incident a little bit more attention because whenever you're doing one of those survey episodes you can't get really in depth up on anything. The earthquake itself remains geologically significant in terms of resulting learnings. And we're going to talk a little bit about that coming up and the devastation that followed it really does serve as a terrifying example of just how quickly a really well established city and its infrastructure can be completely leveled and the city was so damaged by by this whole series of events that Jack London wrote after all of the events. We're talking about today. Quote surrender was complete. Essentially like the city was just gone and there is also an important story here about the city's immigrant population specifically the residents of Chinatown which had grown into a very well established and very prosperous community by nineteen six. And we'RE GONNA get to all of that but I to set the stage we're GonNa talk just a little bit about San Francisco's beginnings as a city. In in the spring of one thousand nine hundred sixty San Francisco had an estimated population of about four hundred thousand people so it was a pretty bustling city but like a lot of cities it it did not start with a lot of planning. Of course there were native people in the area long before any Europeans. Got There but Lieutenant Jose Joaquin More Aga- Spanish was working with Reverend Francisco Palou and they're credited with establishing a military post at the tip of the San Francisco Peninsula in seventeen seventy. He's six and over time. That will outpost evolved into the presidio. William Anthony Richardson. An Englishman is cited as putting the first dwelling in the area and that happened in eighteen. Thirty five so sometime after that initial military post that dwelling as is sometimes referred to was really just a simple tent A settlement kind of grew around Richardson's tent and that settlement was known as Yearbook Buena and the US government was already well aware of the potential importance of California and specifically the bay area because it is very good place To Detroit from because that's emir that Richardson started his settlement. The US was trying to buy that land from Mexico. The United States gained control of Northern California eleven years later during the Mexican American war air but Wayne was renamed San Francisco in early early eighteen forty seven and then of course two years later the coastal town was gripped by the gold. Rush that led to a huge growth periods thousands of people relocated to the city in a very very sort of amount of time hoping to strike it rich. Yeah that's come up on the show a number of times just how quickly there was this huge population influx to San Francisco and the surrounding areas and that haphazard nature of the city's growth meant that it was pretty organic in its structure. More to the point. There really wasn't much in the way of city planning wing. So things like utilities and neighbourhood layouts were developed over the years on the fly and this was something that people recognized as risky For example if you listen into our episode on Levi Strauss awhile back who died several years before the events that we're talking about today. You might recall that he was already in his lifetime advocating for building regulations that would reduce the risk of fire spreading in the city of a fire broke out because they already recognized kind of tightly packed and not really. Well planned out So this was an issue that was being discussed among city and business leaders long before the precarious nature of the city's infrastructure was so deeply challenged ultimately he collapsed by the nineteen o six quake on the morning of April Eighteenth. Nineteen O six. An event happened that lasted less than a minute but change the city really forever at five twelve. AM The earthquakes started and it was over at five thirteen. The actual link of the quake is listed as forty five seconds to a minute depending on the source. The report was coming from the epicenter of the quake was offshore and shocks were felt as far north as the mid Oregon coast all the way down to Los Angeles and it also travelled inland. All the waiting. Evita it's full length of the rupture. That's the area of slip on the Earth's crest that's been determined to have been two hundred ninety six miles or four hundred seventy seven kilometers and the magnitude has been estimated at a number of different numbers from seven point seven to eight point three on the Richter scale and there were immediate collapses of buildings throughout the city when this quake happened the California Theater and hotel on Bush street lost structural integrity and its dome fell into the nearby fire station. Asian it mortally wounded the fire chief engineer. Dennis t Sullivan. He died several days later of his injuries. Another fire station on Howard Street also had part out of a hotel collapsed into it killing fireman James O'Neill and there were a lot of other fatalities as well as buildings went down but losing fire personnel would prove to be particularly devastating problem so the quake caused structural damage all through the city but the situation became exponentially more grave immediately afterward. The city's gaslines had been ruptured and that set off a series of fires to make matters. Worse San Francisco's water. Mains had also been seriously damaged in the quake and that made the task of fighting the fire. Just that much more difficult. Plus the city had lost a lot of firemen in the earthquake initially. Yeah we're going to talk about it. A little but leader but Sullivan in particular was particularly hard loss To fire started right after the quake one south market and the other north of market street near the water. The following day to additional fires began one on Hayes Valley and another in a restaurant and wind conditions really help these various fire spread to the West and and then from there they like goddess stronghold. And they just kept spreading at six thirty. Am Eighteenth which was a little more than an hour. After the quake started all the troops from Fort Mason Leeson were requested to report to the mayor. Eugene Smith's immediately within about thirty minutes army soldiers arriving at the hall of Justice and were assigned patrol duties. He's around the city to assess damage to offer help. Just as the troops were getting started with this effort and aftershock hit eight. Fourteen am and a lot of buildings that had remained standing after the main quake a few hours earlier had sustained significant structural damage and they collapsed in this aftershock then at ten. Am more troops arrived. I these were coming from Fort Mcdowell on Angel Island the US Navy cruiser the USS Chicago received word around the same time about the situation that was unfolding in San Francisco. It made its way to the city. This is the first use of telegraphed communicate a natural disaster the US Chicago would become instrumental. Insulin the evacuation of the city's residents and then the USS Prebble made its way to the city to offer medical assistance. Fires continued to claim buildings throughout the city including government buildings The financial district fire stations and hospitals as the fire spread crews worked frantically to try to move people to safety and combat about the blazes that we're starting at this point all over the city coming up. We are going to talk about a really bad move that was made in an effort to combat the fires. And we'll get to that after we have a quick sponsor break. This episode is brought to you by Bomba's did you know that soccer. 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So you can save twenty percent on your first purchase. When you shop at Bomba Dot com slash history class asked that's Baba's dot com slash history class and save twenty percent Bomba's B O M B s dot com slash history class In the afternoon of April Eighteenth so at this point several hours had passed since the quake the fires were beginning. A decision was made which has come to be seen pretty clearly as one of the worst possible moves the plan. Dan was to dynamite. Some buildings in the city to create a firebreak. So the idea was that if some buildings were destroyed but before the fire got to them they then could not catch fire and continue to spread the fire and thus a barrier around the blaze would be created. This is actually an approach that the fire chief engineer Dennis t Sullivan. That we talked about earlier had been in an advocate of. He had been talking about this long before this incident happened as a way to potentially fight big fires and he would have been the one to execute such an idea but because he was dying he could not and there weren't other people on hand with his level of expertise so proceeding without him and without a real understanding and knowledge of and how to do. This turned out to be disastrous. And like this is not a technique that he was just making up. This is something that had been used in other historical fires in some cases successfully Eh. Yeah and he had done a lot of research about it to figure out how it would work in their city right so like the core idea of it was not the issue. The army had provided the fire department with explosives but the type of explosive that was provided was black gunpowder and the novice use of those explosives did not not really level the buildings as intended. It was more like it blew them apart and sent burning shrapnel through the air that was an a. city that was already engulfed in flame. Same with water nearly impossible to come by. It's easy to see how this really went wrong. In some cases the soldiers who were tasked with facing the blaze took took out buildings using artillery lease incorrect methods just kept being used while the city was burning so as the firefighters and the soldiers retreated from a spreading flames. They kept trying to blow up the areas they had just left not realizing that they were making the whole situation worse. It's one of those things things were. It's a directive given to people who don't have any training so it's not as though they understood right like Oh this. This is the wrong way to do this. Like nobody really really knew they were really grasping at straws and the fire made its way through Knob Hill and Chinatown North Beach in the mission district as residents fled often with nothing thing but the clothes that they wore the dead that could be collected that were not trapped in buildings were brought to public squares and parks some were buried in those same spaces spaces because there was nowhere else to take them. As the casualties mounted Charlie Sedgwick who was editor of the periodical. The British Californian wrote an account of his experience in the earthquake and fire in the nineteen o six American builders review and his account is really fascinating. He writes candidly about the severity of the destruction John and his personal revelation. That what was happening was a historic level tragedy. He mentions like other historical moments where cities have been destroyed. And kind of being very aware here that that this was happening where he was but he also writes this quote that night. I climbed to the summit of Russian hill view the conflagration and never shall I forget the site. It was weirdly beautiful. A thousand banners aflame were streaming in the cloudless sky from spires and domes and lofty roofs. The under seen being a sea of glowing gold and tumultuous but brilliant beyond anything I had ever seen or conceived of Ed Magnificent in the irresistible power it's great flaming waves waves leaping upon or dashing against the strongest creations of man and obliterating them noise as of one hundred battles in progress with myriad giant guns in play told the fierce relentless destruction as towering buildings eaten loose toppled and fell or lifted skyward by thundering dynamite within scatter and drop throwing up huge fiery splashes from the burning sea but he also writes in this account that during the fires and even during the evacuation most people seemed pretty upbeat and cheerful. They helped each other out as much as they could. This was almost undoubtedly because they were in shock and having to focus on the basic tasks asks of rescue and survival Sedgwick wrote quote. Few of the people who went through the San Francisco experience will ever again no fear I think he also wrote that in the aftermath aftermath when the fires were finally put out then the emotional crash came as people saw how much they really had lost. But this is a different take on the situation than most accounts suggest so other accounts describe the scene in San Francisco as completely chaotic. not this sort of oddly. Pleasant experience that Sedgwick had with looting shooting and other lawless behavior. Primary concern this was so worrying that the mayor issued the following proclamation on day one of the disaster quote the federal royal troops the members of the regular police force and all special police officers have been authorized by me to kill any and all persons found engaged in looting or in the commission of any other crime. I have directed all the gas and electric lighting companies. Not to turn on gas electricity until I order them to do so. You may therefore expect the city to remain in darkness for an indefinite time. I request all citizens to remain at home from darkness until daylight every night until order order is restored. I warn all citizens of the danger of fire from damaged or destroyed chimneys broken or leaking gas pipes or fixtures or any blake cause law enforcement was so concerned that drunkenness would lead to violence that many saloon owners found their supply seized and destroyed. It's estimated estimated. That thirty thousand dollars worth of liquor was destroyed as this preemptive move to try to keep the peace later on those saloon owners made claims for restitution to the government and by the time the fires were put out which only happened. After three days of the city burning. San Francisco was obviously not the city that it had been on April eighteenth before the earthquake. AAC five hundred eight city blocks covering four point. Seven square miles had burned more than twenty. Eight thousand of the city's buildings had been destroyed by fire. More than three thousand people had died and of that population of four hundred thousand that we mentioned earlier. Two hundred fifty thousand were left homeless. There was an estimated four hundred million dollars worth of damage. You'll see various different numbers some a little higher than that But that is nineteen o six value. That is not a number adjusted for modern equivalents. The ferry building had been saved by the US Navy so ferries were able to get people out of the city and the railroad suspended fare collection action while they take people to other towns for refuge a lot of people stayed in started cleanup as soon as they could return to their property while this devastation led some to proclaim that San Francisco Cisco was gone for good that was obviously not the case We mentioned San Francisco's founding. An explosive organic growth at the beginning of the episode because of its unplanned nature of course the city's infrastructure and layout had not really had much forethought in the aftermath of the devastation. Plans are made to rebuild with a clearer grander vision for the city but government officials. Were feeling the need to prove their cities resilience and they rushed a lot of this work. Also things became mired in bribes absorb underhanded dealings during the process that eventually led to a series of trials known as the San Francisco graft trials are outside of the scope of today's episode but holly assures me it will be a show in a future. There's no can't do it. There's like shots fired in a courtroom. There's like crazy argue. It's a really good story. Full of high drama an illicit behavior but it also because of the events of nineteen o six the the areas outside of San Francisco grew significantly. Oakland Freemont San Jose and other areas all experienced population growth. I as people move there away from the fire. Although San Jose damage of its own and then as the bay area rebuilt more people moved there from outside that had not been there in the first place and it it really did have this this large explosion of population again. But this time with a little more planning But this growth came with its own problems. racism was pretty rampant. There were some areas that were very clear. The welcoming to for example immigrants or people of Color So it wasn't as though everything was rebuilt in a a utopia where everybody was cool with each other but it was a huge time of growth for the bay area and the city surrounding San Francisco. The other big thing to come out of this was a sudden focus on the scientific scientic community on the San Andreas fault system. The United States first seismographs had been in use for less than twenty years. Other countries around the globe had been researching doing the science of earthquakes but outside of pretty small group of researchers. This wasn't a significant area of study in the United States yet the earthquake of nineteen o six changed that though Oh and to be clear. Some of the seeming slowness in this space was because seismology even abroad was still in its very early stages German scientists Alfred Wagner Konare. Who you are going to hear more about? In coming episodes was still six years away from introducing the idea of continental drift and the theory of plate. tectonics tonics wasn't developed until the nineteen sixties so even though other countries were working in earthquake study everyone was still really in the very beginnings of the science. Yeah I by total coincidence researching an episode on Alfred Beggar Right now as we speak not literally while we're in the studio but as soon as we're done I'm getting back to it so following this earthquake. UC Berkeley Geology. Department head Andruzzi Lawson started amassing data and he was is named chair of the state earthquake. Investigation Commission was established by California Governor. George C party. That commission published a full report after two years of work. And that's generally referred to as the Lawson report. The report set the bar for scientific investigation and included work from twenty different scientists. It's a really thorough compilation of data including maps and photos of the damage and measurements of the movement of the earth around the San. Andreas fault. Yeah a has a complete science sidebar. I will mention that where the epicenter was Determined by research has shifted a few times over the years as a our scientific scientic. Mileage has gotten a little bit more refined along the way so But really with the Lawson report all of these ideas started and all of this research really began. The report formed the basis of earthquake knowledge related to California and also informed future construction and scientific observational guidelines. So that meant that earthquake hazards were reduced. Because predictive modeling was developed as a consequence to warn people of impending quakes and buildings were made to better withstand shaking making it really all goes back to the scientific community really rallying right after this event coming up. We'll talk about a very different topic. And that's how racist attitudes toward Chinatown. Chinatown played out in the aftermath of the nineteen o six quake but first we will pause and have another quick word from one of our sponsors this. This episode is brought to you by Norton. Three sixty with lifelock how you spend your time and for example. What podcast you listened to you? That's totally in your control. But your personal information on the other hand that is another story because when you shop bank or Browse online your personal information gets out there and you can lose control of it exposing you to cybercrime. I know I shouldn't have lost control of it on a number of occasions and it is no fun whatsoever but you can get back a sense of control over how to help protect yourself and your personal information. Thankfully there's in three sixty with lifelock and all in one membership for your cyber safety that gives you device security identity theft protection. VPN For online privacy and more plus. If there's an identity theft related problem they have agents. Who will work to fix it? No one can prevent all cybercrime and identity theft but Norton. Three sixty with lifelock is a powerful whole ally to help protect you in today's connected world. Sign up today for Norton three sixty with lifelock membership. And since you choose to listen to this podcast you're GonNa save twenty five percent armour off your first year at Norton Dot com slash history that is Norton Dot com slash history for twenty five percent off in the wake of the earthquake and fire the displaced population Asian of Chinatown. In particular be really harrowing situation the whole city was in a bad state right. People were displaced half of the city and lost their homes. Water was very difficult to get but Chinatown. Had A whole different problem. And we've talked on this show before about the page act of eighteen. Seventy five and the Chinese exclusion act of eighteen eighty two both of which are intended to stop immigration from China to the US and as the initial swell of the gold rushes prosperity had ebbed animosity toward immigrants had swelled particularly Chinese people were living in California and San Francisco's Chinatown was viewed with suspicion and outright hostility. This neighborhood was destroyed destroyed in the earthquake. An estimated fifteen thousand of its residents lost their homes in the disaster. It offered city officials this chance to try to push the residents of Chinatown out permanently and take over their neighborhoods real estate which was really lucrative. Most chinatowns displaced population sought refuge nearby here by Oakland that also had its own well established Chinatown but the people that stayed behind were segregated away from other refugees at the presidio. Meanwhile all the other residents were allowed to return to their property immediately after the fire was extinguished. Yeah but those Chinese residents were not they continued to be held. City officials wanted to keep the displaced residents away from their neighborhood to prevent rebuilding efforts in Chinatown. The city government established a General Committee for the Chinese. He's relocation with the intent to determine exactly what to do with this entire community of people that the city no longer wanted and one possibility was to establish a new area for them outside the city limits but even early on it was recognized. This was not the best idea because there was a lot of business done among the occupants occupants of Chinatown as well as tourism and that included taxes that the city desperately wanted to keep collecting it was going to need that money as part of the rebuilding effort and while out. This isn't in any way suggesting that racism was not an issue. In all of this. There is an interesting thing that happens where there's a mentality shift that's noted It came came up in a paper that I was reading where this is the first time on record that people kind of acknowledged that instead of thinking that Chinese immigrants the grants were hurting the economy. They were recognizing that they were a significant and important part of the city's financial wellbeing. That was something that Chinatown's residents already knew and they weren't passively waiting to see what city officials would do. They immediately spoke out against what was happening through their relationships with the Protestant and Catholic churches this which offered spaces to gather the residents of Chinatown got organized leaders from the Chinese community gave statements to the press that made it clear that they would fight. Efforts to relocate locate them and that they were as a community united in the stance on May first nineteen O six. The San Francisco call ran an article. This contains some very outdated language guage in terms of how Chinese people were referred to but it reported quote celestial landowners hold that they cannot be deprived of their rights. Fifty Chinese owners of property. The Old Chinatown have decided to rebuild on the sites where their buildings were destroyed legal advisers of the Chinese the Chinese Consul General and the Vice Consul King. John gave it as their opinion that the owners or lessees of land in Chinatown cannot be deprived of the right to rebuild if they so desired it has been decided to resist any attempt of the authorities to compel the Chinese to establish themselves at hunters point against the wishes of those who owned property in the old territory Ori so throughout all this conflict the benevolent six companies which he might see sided with a number of slightly different names including the Chinese six companies or by the name name that it's no by today which is Chinese Consolidated Benevolent Association. I was vital to the organizational efforts. This group has its own complex and nuanced history but by nineteen one thousand nine hundred six. It was working essentially as an internal support an umbrella organization for the people of China Town. We should mention that. The group had expanded outside of California but their headquarters quarters were still in San Francisco and the benevolent six Companies Organization was able to leverage its position to reach out to the Chinese government and as a result a delegation one of Chinese officials made a public statement and requested a meeting with Governor Party and their statement began This is is set in the point of view of the person giving the statement it quote. I have heard the report that the authorities intend to remove chinatown but I cannot believe it. America is a free country in every man has a right to occupy land which he owns provided that he makes no nuisance. The Chinese government owns the lot on which the Chinese consulate of San Francisco formerly stood and this site on Stockton Street. It will be used again. It is the intention of our government to build a new building on the property paying strict attention to the new building regulations which may be framed while that statement it was specifically about the consulate. The officials used their meeting with the governor to make a convincing case. That Chinatown was a driver of significant tax revenue in trade. There was also a request that Chinese officials be allowed to enter the area of the presidio. While the city's Chinese refugees are being held under guard so there's officials could administer aid read. The city of San Francisco also started seeing more and more just how valuable the economic influence of its Chinese residents was some business owners. Just just got tired of this whole situation and opted to leave the bay area and start over in new cities often at the invitation of those cities delegates from Seattle and Portland and had actually arrived in San Francisco to reach out to displace Chinese business owners. An offer them assistance if they wanted to move to their cities that was a little bit scary for for the Leadership of San Francisco realized they were clearly getting rid of something that other people saw asset and though this caused a permanent dip in the Chinese population of the city when the actually took decades to make up the majority of Chinatown's residents really wanted more than anything to just continue their lives in San Francisco which they considered their home at this point after the lobbying efforts protests and statements. San Francisco's Chinese community would not just accept relocation as well as a serious realization about the fiscal value of keeping Chinatown inside the city's municipality city officials finally relented and allowed the residents of Chinatown to go back to their neighborhood hood and start rebuilding the new Chinatown as most of the rebuilt. San Francisco was built with city planning at the forefront to make it better than before one thousand nine hundred ten right right up with the San Francisco call described the newly rebuilt Chinatown as quote. Barbarously Gorgeous again. supernet saying that racism toward the Chinese and other Asian in communities was suddenly abandoned. The fact the word barbarously is right there before gorgeous nods to that Also if you would like to like hear more we're about this rebuilding process. There's a great episode of ninety nine percent invisible. That's like specifically about how they redesigned Chinatown. Yeah it's also interesting there. Are that entire article. That calls it barbarously gorgeous. It's a weird series of praise and backhanded compliments. where it's like? It's so beautiful and amazing saying I hope it doesn't start to stink like it did before like it's a really Wow range horrible. While they're like acknowledging how like. What an astonishing honest shing and absolutely beautiful accomplishment? It was in the rebuild like they couldn resist getting in some really gross racist. Barbs along the way Yeah it's a again fascinating. Even while they acknowledge people's value they still had to like get an insult which is very very strange and dismaying thing to read There is still information today. That is surfacing about the fire and Chinatown specifically in two thousand fifteen while construction was being done on the Muny light rail line from Chinatown to south market in archaeological excavation. That was running concurrently discovered a number of industrial sewing machines that were manufactured in the late nineteenth century. That find was right in front of today's Chinese American Citizens Alliance building on Stockton the street and it offered insight into an area of the city. That wasn't particularly well documented in one thousand nine hundred six even things in Chinatown that were documented have been pretty the elusive from a historical standpoint because the documentation of where things were was largely lost in the earthquake in the fires that followed City Hall for example had burned to the ground around and with it went the census records and citizenship documentation. Yes sorting that whole citizenship. Status Situation Out was its own big mess. There are certainly some indications that some people took advantage of that situation and could just say like no I was a citizen then but my records are burned but also people that were citizens had no proof either it was a very strange time But because this this area was more than eight feet below the street where they found these sewing machines that discovery indicated that there was probably a basement factory that existed on that site and this has meant that researchers could use that information to try to identify from what records still do exist the garment factory that had been there and hopefully eventually identify identify some of the workers that had been there And thus create a little bit more robust historical record of the neighborhood and its citizens. And that's something that takes on considerable double significance when you consider the treatment of the displaced Chinese population after the disaster and as the city continues construction projects finds like these are more and more more difficult and pre nineteen. Six discoveries are becoming evermore rare but for Chinatown in particular. It's piecing together a big big gap in their record so it becomes more and more important. I don't know what the status is on the research into. What building was there and finding out who the people that worked in that factory were? Yeah I couldn't Did Not manage to dig up more info on it so. I'm not sure. What status that that researches at but it's fascinating I sure do love? San Francisco's Chinatown MHM. The eating I have done in San Francisco started that That ninety nine percent invisible episode. I think it's called. It's Chinatown it's it's from twenty eighteen think and talks about how they designed that that Chinatown neighborhood and then how that influenced. I winced other cities. Chinatown it's really interesting. Yeah Yeah I mean. San Francisco's Chinatown is often considered like take the original United States Chinatown In a metro area and so it it has been very influential throughout throughout our country and others frankly and again oh the food I have eaten there and I just love it. It's it is a really beautiful part of the city. It makes me so happy. Just to walk around there I have two pieces of listener. Mail one is about our halloween episodes. comes from our listener chip who writes dear Tracy and holly my list of favorite things about autumn and Halloween up there with campfires Pumpkin Pie and frosty mornings. The stuff you missed in history class spooky history episodes the devil's footprints of Devonshire and the Beast Jefferson my top favorites. Thank you for being the best season of the year even more enjoyable. I hope the season is a very happy one for you. And your family's happy Halloween Wean. Even though we're past Halloween everyday is Halloween in my heart. Always feedback to read more and thank you so much chip I to Love all Halloween things like I said. Every day is Halloween to me Our second postcard is from our listener. Katie and it's just delightful shrug hi holly and Tracy. I was at the Wisconsin Historical Society's these historic preservation conference this postcard. Made me think of you. Thank you for all the work you do making history accessible and I wanted to mention this postcard because the image on it is automobile suits for dogs away which I love. It's super cute is basically. It's funny because it's a historical thing but if you've ever ever known people with dogs you might know that there are things called Donegal's which are goggles made for dogs So that they can stick their heads out of car windows or right inside cars etcetera ederer without debris getting in there is and that's essentially what most of these suits are based there like a little jacket for the dog with a pair of daugavpils and one of the drawings. It's it's all sketch obviously And one of the drawings actually looks like a cat which cracks me up in a whole letter way so thank you Katie. That made me smile. And cackle a little bit Which is always great fund? If you'd like to write to us you can absolutely do that. Our email address is history. PODCAST at how still works DOT com. You can also find us everywhere on social media as missed in in history and you can visit our website missed in history dot com to check out every episode that's ever existed As well as all of the ones going forward If you would like subscribe to the show that sounds like a grand idea to me. You can do that on the iheartradio APP and Apple podcasts. Or whatever it is that you listen. Stuffy missed in history. Classes the production of iheartradio's. How stuff works for more podcasts? From iheartradio visit the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows iheartradio brings you some of the biggest podcasts passable. Time like stuff you should know and stuff you missed in history class plus the hottest podcast the last year like the Ron Burgundy podcast disgrace link and monster the Zodiac killer. 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Tuesday 2 June

Monocle 24: The Briefing

34:04 min | 2 months ago

Tuesday 2 June

"You're listening to the briefing first broadcast on the second of June. Two Thousand and Twenty on Monaco Twenty, four. The briefing is brought to you in association with Allience. As part of the programs partnership with Alliance we bring you stories that demonstrate audiences commitment to securing people's lives. After all for one hundred thirty years all around the globe. Alleanza has been working hard to do just that to give courage to its customers for what's ahead. Because `alliance knows how important it is to have a fan partner your side who provides solid and sustainable solutions? Leon strives to do it right. We passion every day. Tuned to the briefing. Dear, exactly how ALAMANCE does it? An allowance for life. Hello and welcome to the briefing, coming to you live from studio one here. Midori House in London Andrew Miller coming up I've been quite emotional at those locations and seeing what I've been seeing in not so much because of the loss of property, which is certainly significant, the expression of that what that symbolizes of the deep pain that our communities are experiencing right now protests continue across the United States. How much momentum do they now have? An is the response of the president. President, helping, hindering or having actually not much to do with it here in the UK parliament returns, or does it. We'll look at why some MP's are determined to refill. The benches will here from Dr Chris Smith about contradicting claims of how covid nineteen may be mutating, and later in the show I'm Monaco's design editor Nolan Giles and I'll be talking about how Singapore's Clean Green Image is getting a little wilder. That's all coming up right here on the briefing on monocle twenty four. And Welcome to today's edition of the briefing with me Andrew Miller. The United States is braced for another strange and difficult day protests across the country sparked in the first instance by outrage at the death of George Floyd at the hands of Minneapolis Police, on May twenty fifth have escalated as has the response of law enforcement, though it is an open question, which has. Has Collation is driving which US President Donald Trump before, and after staging an inexplicable photo, what waving a Bible around on a street recently cleared Truncheon point has brought his famous knack for empathy and conciliation to bear threatening to deploy America's military against American citizens first of all, this is Minneapolis as director of the division of race and equity joy. Stevens speaking earlier. I think about the scenes in Minneapolis as I travel through the city, both on the south side, which is where George Floyd was murdered and on the north. Side I've spent a significant amount of time this past weekend. Connecting residents to resources, what I see is a lot of damage to properties that have been part of my life for most of my life, and that is shocking. I've been led the tears I've been quite emotional at those locations. Locations and seeing what I've been seeing in not so much because of the loss of property, which is certainly significant, but the expression of that, and what that symbolizes of the deep pain that our communities are experiencing right now, anthony centuries of struggle between particularly the black community and policing as an institution and seeing that on full display, just the pain of fat and the trauma around that. That's what I'm saying. That's deeply shocking, but it was. Stevens I'm joined now with more on this deborah professor at Nyu School of Law and Co Faculty Director of the Center on race inequality, and the Law Deborah first of all. What are you expecting in New York City? Today? It's just after seven in the morning where you on now. Well good. Morning Andrew Thank you for having me here. I. I think we're expecting in New York City. What we've seen in. That is powerful. Peaceful protests where people are demanding recognition of their humanity and their equality. And of course I think that will still see. People who are coming into the communities in New York City trying to stoke violent and to advance their own agenda, which has nothing to do with why folks are in the streets calling for justice. I think we'll see more of that today. Well, let's take a closer look at the majority of those peaceful protesters. It's not just New York. Of course, this is now happening in dozens of cities across the United States and indeed the world, but if we if we look at just the US. Is it your sense that these are all now protests being driven by the same thing or are you? Is it more local concern so for example in New York, is it a specifically New York? Focus the demonstrations starting to take. I think we have to separate the protests from the leaders and the violence, and so for the for the protests I believe the protests in your city or fighting for the same thing that they're fighting for around the country. They're asking for people to recognize the fundamental humanity and dignity of black people, asking for people to stop completing brown skin with dangerousness and criminality and inhumanity, and they're asking for the end the weaponization law enforcement against people of Color, and so I think that that's true in every city around united. States where people are engaging in peaceful protests, they're asking for the same thing is received that problem in every city around the country where police are using. Violence against black and, Brown communities. UH I. Just want to pick up that phrase of yours. The weaponization of law enforcement to what extent. In the United States that has been a factor in the repeated the repeated. Circumstances of of brutality towards black people in particular. It's this extraordinary specter of. Police appearing on the streets, wearing more equipment and carrying more ammunition and writing and bigger armored vehicles than than most countries militaries do. That's absolutely right, and so you raise raises tuitions. With the with the the weaponization of law enforcement I think that's demonstrated y white people across the country feel free to call the police on black people who are just trying to live their lives is they know that when the police come? They're going to support the the claims of the white person. On target the Black and Brown folks, but the other issue you raised is around the the militarization of the police force, and it's something one of the the the systemic problems in this country that we need to address if we actually want achieve. Reform I think people are very focused unfortunately on just smoothing out the bad apples and police departments around the country. We absolutely have to do that, but also hawk to challenge, the underlying systemic issues that created the situation that led to the death of George Floyd, the and Freddie Gray and Michael Brown and Sean, Bell and Tamir Rice. Those are systemic issues. The militarization of the police is one of those systemic issues. A lot of the coverage of these protests overseas is of course focusing on the the bazaar mesmerizing of the president of the United States. When you're in the middle of these protests where you're where they're happening indeed in Donald Trump's hometown. Is it your sense that he is Eden a factor? are these protests in any sense against him particularly, or is he perceived as a bit of an irrelevance at this point? He, is absolutely not a relevant I think. I don't know I don't think the protests against him it protests are against this this violence. This humiliation degradation that blackened people experience every day, and he's one component of that I think. What he's doing is not showing leadership. During this this this tragic time I think he is only claiming the situation. He's breathing oxygen on these on these fires, and so his engagement at this moment is not would. Anyone would have hoped from United States president. He is not helping the situation. He's next importing. Protesters who are peacefully calling for change. He's not helping to bring calm and order. He's not helping to bring any leadership in addressing the underlines, stomach issues so in the end. He's he's simply absolutely not helping and I'd also stay his good apparent justice under whose leadership has also not been helping. Address did the these underlying issues. They've pulled back their responsibility to police the police, and so a lot of what we're seeing now is also. Because the Department of Justice is not doing what it needs to do. These are very far from the first large-scale protests sparked by a mistreatment of black people in the United States and people have been reaching back through history four points of comparison whether it's Ferguson two, thousand fourteen Los Angeles Ninety two the demonstrations following the assassination of Martin Luther King Junior in nineteen, sixty eight watts, nine, hundred, sixty five. Do they strike you as being on that Continuum Marawi looking at something, new and completely different. I hope we're looking at something new in completely different than some of those. Protests that you mentioned because I'm hoping that we've gotten to a point. Where America recognizes the need for more than rhetoric, the need for for for more than supporting these protesters in in in words, but not actions, and some hoping that this is different it certainly some of the things that you've seen are different, we see. Police. Officers in law enforcement from around the country, speaking out against what they saw in the video tape of George for being killed. We have seen police officers marching with with protesters, taking a knee with protesters and we've seen police officers fired immediately for using excessive force dealing with protesters. What I hope we see is that after all the protests are done that folks will come together for real change It has happened on in on occasions the protests. Brought us. The Voting Rights Act of nineteen sixty five. Protests and uprisings a brought us the fair. Housing Act and as well intern hopeful that these protests and uprisings will bring real systemic reform to how the police engaged at occupy glacken brown communities to catch. Thank you for joining us that. WAS DEBORAH IN NEW YORK? City you're listening to the briefing on monocle twenty four. You're listening to the briefing with me. Andrew Miller it's inevitably tempting. Where the COVID nineteen pandemic is concerned to fling oneself headlong upon the tiniest morsel of hope, much excitement was therefore generated by claims of doctors in Italy where covid nineteen struck early and hard, the virus is coming. This suggestion was almost immediately rubbished by experts elsewhere who have said that cove nineteen is not mutating in any hopefully diluted direction on joined now by Dr Chris Smith Monocle, twenty, health and science correspondent on a viral adjust at Cambridge University. Chris First of all this claim made by the Italian doctors. What did they say? And why might they have said it? I'm slightly baffled by this. If it kind of got lost in translation a bit, because obviously countries which have had a peak are now beginning to recover, they're beginning to up a return to some semblance of normality, not full normality, but some semblance of normality I wondered if what they were trying to get across, was the the virus itself it's it's impacted stranglehold on the community, its ability to Sorta Pierce, our hearts is reduced a bit, and this has been sort of turned into the viruses in some way become much. Much less malignant and an his finest bank to business as usual, because, of course it's not and the WHO of come out fighting, Straightaway Maria Vancouver foods their technical lead, for who health emergencies said it hasn't changed in its severity hasn't changed any transmissibility in other words, you can still catch it, and it can still spread equally well, and if you do catch, you still got same likelihood. You always had that. He's going to make a certain proportion of people civilian well. Is there any likelihood or history of viruses? Of burning themselves out. Oh yes, and this is actually par for the course when you have a new virus that has its first foray into an entirely new host species, whether that's an animal giving us a new infection, which is actually where seventy five to eighty percent of new outbreaks, virus infections come from. They are what's called zoonoses very often because those viruses are not well adapted to. To their new host, they've evolved to for instance flourish in a bat then when they get into a human, it's although a mu-. Another kind of mammal it's a very different physiological and biochemical setup, and so the virus is often tooled up in all the wrong directions, and this means they tend to have a much higher than normal pathogenicity right. They're much more lethal. Bowl for example in Bola jumps into a human from its natural host, which is about it's about fifty to seventy five percent lethal with H, five n one the bird flu. It just makes some birds very unwell, but most birds will just have this like we have human seasonal flu. If that into a human you end up with a fifty percent, lethality rights away, Varsity I get into people. They very infrequently. also well adapted to. To us as this new corona virus, this is an exceptional viruses. NUCOR endorses really well adapted to humans. It doesn't have a high pathogenicity. It spreads very easily, and it's also relatively symptomatic in a very high fraction of people, which is why it's such a headache to deal with so are we learning anything and we have now been living with it for a few months learning anything about how covid nineteen specifically is mutating and adapting. On the mutation front, which means how fast is this virus? Genetically altering the all that question is quite well understood an altering only very slowly. It's it's what we call Amtra genetically very stable people have been tracking the virus in the first four into humans back in November in Wuhan. Right through to the present day. They've gathered hundreds of genomes where they've actually read the genetic information of the virus from people who've been affected at various points along the last six months and in various geographies. There's no evidence that it's. It's changing very radically very rapidly. It's only GonNa Ham. Full of genetic changes, perhaps fifteen twenty genetic changes, since the very first forays into humans, and that's a very low mutation rate. If you contrast that with for instance a norovirus, the person who catches that and that's a cause of diarrhea vomiting. The the is making hundreds of times more more genetic changes in every cycle through a person than this new. Carina Voire so in that respect. It's not changing very fast in terms of what we're learning about it. We're. We're learning a lot all the time. What's emerged really kinda striking thing that's come to us is that the virus isn't so much killing people because of a viral attack. It's the ensuing immune attack on our own bodies. That's actually leading to a loss of the symptoms and consequences, and that's what now scientists doctors are going after trying to comprehend why this is happening, and how we might go to use the drugs. We've got to tinker with the immune response to try to head off that Tailspin. The some people inevitably. Inevitably go into to minimize the devastating damage that happens to just a small number, but a significant number of people who catch it well to go back to where we came in then. Is there anything the rest of the world can learn from the Italian experience? Obviously Italy was one of the first countries struck in Europe, certainly with a major attack off. They went from six and a half thousand known new cases a day in late March. Just two hundred confirmed yesterday is. Is there anything there? That's exportable. Well all countries are sharing data like they never have before sharing experiences and trying to work out the best way round. These things not least that people are looking to countries that are de escalating from there lockdown to see how fast viruses come back with all the social distancing measures that are in place right? She going to work for example, some countries have got one meter. Some some countries have one and a half meters in Britain. Moment two meters. People talk about changing that, so there's a lot of data sharing going on this little patient care information going on and a lot of collaborations scientifically between university and other senses. We had a pipe story. Story in the Daily Telegraph on Sunday for example Wigan, ship samples from Cambridge where we've had more cases of coronavirus than the whole of Australia. To Australia so that at the Australian National Center, Murdoch, university in. Perth can analyze those samples to see if we can find chemical fingerprints that are predictive of people having good or bad outcomes with Korean vars, so we can potentially develop a test to find out who's most most earlier in illness, and then potentially intervene early with some of the drugs, another potentially disease modifying treatments that we have Chris. Thanks as always that was our health and science. Correspondent Dr. Chris Matthew Listening to the briefing monocle twenty four. As part of the programs partnership with Liens we have bringing you stories that demonstrate alliances commitment to securing people's lives. Off The Liens has been working hard to do just that. To give courage to its customers for what's ahead. Because allience how important it is to have a partner at your side. Stay tuned to the briefing to hear exactly Allience, does it. An alliens for life. You're listening to the briefing with me. Andrew Miller here in the UK. The House of Commons will decide later today on the best means of permitting parliament to continue its work in present sub optimal circumstances, the government has declared itself unimpressed by virtual meetings and remote voting, and so forth and want business to return to something like as usual several MP's have pointed out not only. That this could potentially exclude them and by extension their constituents, because they are self-isolating and or in a high risk category for covid, nineteen and or caring for someone else I'm joined with more on this by Lance Price, full director of communications at number, ten Downing Street. Let's parliament operating under bizarre hybrid arrangements since mid April. How different of a bean from what policies usually like? Oh they've been convicted different. So we always used to see all the MP's crowded into the Chamber of the House of Commons, because there aren't enough seats in the House of Commons for all the MP's deliberately, so it gives you that sense of of a pack to a chamber. An all of that has changed and allowed to sit next to each other. We've seen more recently pictures of them. Sitting several meters apart. It's changed the whole tenor of prime minister's questions when. We, were used to sort of brain crowds behind the prime minister behind the leader of the opposition. All of that's change out. Of course we've been seeing MP's coming in remotely from their constituencies, sometimes with greater success than others trying to contribute to debates and ask questions. So why is the government in such a hurry to get parliament to something like work because I guess there's there's two possible strands to here one is that it's just genuinely straightforwardly strategic that they want parliament to be able to function properly, but he's there calls medic. Angola's well they they want to return. To the the The Punch and Judy Theatre of PM cues in particular. There is definitely a cosmetic angle I think to cosmetic angles. Actually the first is that. The prime minister has been noticeably lackluster during prime minister's questions and the new labor leaders. Sakir Star has got the best team in pretty much. All of the exchanges and de Boris Johnson appears to be lost without a cheering crowd behind him, but that's not really going to change in the short term anyway, because the speaker of the House of Commons has very is not going to relax the rule about how MP's have to space themselves out. There's been a bit of a a addressing down for him as this morning for staying, put in their seats and not getting up and leaving the chamber to. They've asked the question so that other people. People can conduct that by so that's not going to change so much. The other cosmetic reasons I think they want to show that the country is getting back to normal the businesses getting back to normal and in that Sense House of Commons is business. It's it's. It's a key element of Britain's public life, and they want to show normality I suppose, but it's. It's a bitterly contested by very large number of MP's, and there's going to be a bit of a didn't about it quite soon. I didn't collins well. The number of MP's to renew how very large it is! Is it for example large enough to defeat the government on this? While the number of people have expressed disquiet publicly isn't large enough to defeat the government but I think they'll get a lot of support from others, and and it's not just the the elder limit anybody who is supposed to be. Self isolated whether the elderly or pregnant have health issues diabetes any of oceans? There's all sorts of employees who protested about that in the equality and human rights commission of weighed in this morning, and said that is discriminatory against them, and by definition, their constituents to exclude them from the proceedings of the House of Commons and also a lot of employees have to. To travel very large distances including the big block of Scottish MP's who had it's absolutely ridiculous. They should travel and take risks by traveling in order to participate so I think the whether or not. If it was put to a vote, the government would lose. I think the strength of opinion is sufficient. The government is GonNa have to back site in some full. So just in in normal circumstances, what are the consequences or disadvantages? MP Can't actually come to the Commons Wada. They and therefore their constituents missing out on. Well, they can't I mean if you don't have virtual participation and it does look as if there will be some continuation some form of virtual participation, but if you call it a virtual participation than if an MP comp come to the House of Commons. They can't speak up for their constituents. They can't take part in in debates, and there's already been a little bit of a movement on that, so that and. Women for example after giving birth canal have substitute ask on their behalf and take part in debates on on on their behalf, so there's a growing recognition that there has to be some understanding that MP's as human beings like everybody else, and if they can't get to their place of work, so become Russian has to be estimates of that. Thinking, therefore with your political strategists hat on, does it strike you as we'd that? The government having burned such an extraordinary amount of political capital in defending Dominic Cummings. is now going as hard on this web a battle which they probably won't win in as complete a fashion as they'd prefer. Yes, I think that's rise, and I think privately a few members of the cabinets are very uneasy about the whole thing and to an extent Jacob. Re Smog the slight extraordinary. figure. Whose sometimes described as members of the eighteenth century whose the leader of the House of Commons. Is Out on his own on this and I haven't seen a lot of support for other cabinet ministers for the position that he's a insisted upon in demanding that MP's turn up and potentially have a sort of been described as the Jacob Reese more Congo line, almost a kilometer long of a socially distance as trying to get through the division lobbies. Am I think he's GonNa have to backtrack and loosen face over. This learns price Pricilla. Happy Visual Image of a Conga Line of Jacob Rees mugs. Thank you very much for joining us. You are listening to the briefing on monocle twenty four. Japan might be one of the world's biggest economies of global leader in everything from architecture to food and a country whose brands have flourished around the world. It remains a bit of a mystery. Published by Thames and Hudson. The Monaco Book of Japan is the culmination of years of reporting across the country by Monaco. And it delivers a unique insight into the people, places and products that define the extraordinary nation. Painting a portrait of the country from Hawkeye, dough to subtropical Okinawa, you'll find in-depth coverage of culture, retail hospitality, transport and more. As well as profiles of the people and POPs who have helped shape Japan. The latest in our series of beautiful large format books, the Monocle Book of Japan is available. NOW FIND OUT MORE AT MONACO DOT COM forward slash shop. You're listening to the briefing in finally on today's show. We're going to take a look at news from the world of design and I joined to do that by Monaco design. Editor Nolan Giles Nolan. You wanted to talk specifically about Singapore. This being this worldwide phenomenon over recent months of against what we can think of as re wilding, as things come back to cities, which had not seen them for quite some wild now there are a few more urban urban landscapes than Singapore being happening there. I mean the really are you know not many landscapes as urban as Singapore, but really also not so many cities that are as green, Singaple Singaporean Singapore for years, I think since you know the days of League on you. It's really a promoted this idea of of the city being a garden city and may great effort to have beautiful botanical gardens across the city. When a new building is a raise for example, the greenery that has gone has to be once again included on that bill on the building you have to, if you're taking nature where you have to bring it back into the city but this all being said Singaporeans lights keep things very neat with the gardening. So you know you have this Green Garden City, but it's a very well maintained. Impeccable Beautiful Garden, and then obviously, when when everything has kicked off with the pandemic. The garden is having been able to maintain it so well so like you say we've seen this wild. With in Singapore. which you know has brought a whole lot of new biodiversity and nature to the city and actually Singaporeans. Really enjoying Andrew Loving what they're seeing and the interested. Now in you know how far they can go with this wilding, and it's really going to become you know talked about within policy there. in terms of how the the built environment move forward. How big a shift in mentality is this going to require the not so much from citizens? Who as you say seem to be on board with it? But with we've government again going back to what you were saying about Singapore. As anybody who's been there knows is might make Switzerland look like a a hotbed of Devil May Care Anneke. It is an almost manically tidy place. It's interesting, because actually the the Singaporean. The Land Authority varies Criti- switched on, and they're already kind of cross this what you could call the trend in landscape architecture, which has been towards wilding within city. So if you look at a place like Copenhagen all of the Progressive Landscape architecture. That's happening. The city actually has a lot to do with with just leaving things how they all reintroducing a original species back into the city things that should be there and there's obviously just helps. helps things immensely, so the Singaporean government has weirdly kind of being across the so it's actually. Now having the public onside means that they can kind of press ahead with with these ideas anyway, so so for the Singaporeans that had doubts about having a big. Big Grassy field behind the house instead of a perfectly manicured lawn. Maybe things will change quite quickly. So. Singapore, do you then think is confident about embracing an untidy future? Strangely enough. Andrew I think it is, and if you look at some of the some of the gardens that they have created that there's place called Jurong Lake Gardens. Dave introduced swamps into this land grasslands. They have created a landscape architect. Sure that makes the actual. The tides of of the ocean around it at everything is already becoming a little bit messier in a little bit more free for the for the birds and butterflies to come back, and I don't know you. You follow this. These types of stories quite closely Andrew, but I'm wondering if you're aware of the autism which have come back to Singapore, go I'm not aware of the autism I'm always here for authors. Talk to us about autism for about twenty to twenty five seconds. Okay well Singapore. Has a lot of ways. And once upon a time there was many autism. In the Volta ways now, many autism it because of all of these efforts from Singapore to reintroduce crop diversity back into the the natural landscape that on the earth and landscape ultras have been. You know flooding back and the they've been seen in places like China town that they've seen around city so that that that definitely getting about? About which kind of shows the progressing of making with greening the place? Nolan Joel's own, not happy note, thank you for joining US studies all for this edition of the briefing. It was produced by Reese James Golden, Gopher and Marcus Hippie the Research Charlie film, mcchord and Dowse Studio Manager Today was Sam Impey the briefy. Re the briefing returns at the same time tomorrow. Midday London I'm Andrew. Thanks for listening. Damn? As Corona virus stretches global healthcare systems online platforms that offer medical advice remotely I helped him to ease the strain on hospitals. Alliens the world's largest insurer, an asset manager collaborates with firms, the globe to offer tailored and truly worldwide service. Different markets require different solutions and partners and in Thailand alliens works with local heavy medicine firm CI we. He is the firm's founder. My Name is Dr Pariah Tamraz here. I, am Co founder and CEO of she, we applications, so she we application is a provider for healthy living talk, which is a online platform for matching specialists and patients. We started off with a group of healthcare providers, including Doctors Dentists Pharmacists Nurses who see lack of healthcare accessibility in Thailand Chee we and platforms like it offers swift access to doctors from mobile phones, mitigating the risk of infection and helping people in more remote communities to get the care they need. The service also insulates hospitals from unnecessary visits and office patients peace of mind and personalized solutions, so we started off as an online web board where patients can come in and post their questions online and we specialize will come in answer that question and we found that the one way communication without interaction is not good enough, so we created an APP a mobile APP where patients and doctors or medical specialists can having interactive conversation `alliance is currently working with. Partners in twenty six countries, proving that global health solutions can start with the touch of a button. Intrigued? Well you can hear stories like this here on the show every day or read more in the Monaco minute every morning. Will you can find out more anytime about building an alliance for life at `ALLIANCE DOT COM.

United States MP Singapore New York City House of Commons George Floyd Andrew Andrew Miller partner president Monaco Japan Donald Trump House of Commons UK Allience Stevens London America
February 19, 2019: Hour 2

Here & Now

41:47 min | 1 year ago

February 19, 2019: Hour 2

"Support for here. And now comes from legalzoom for those wanting to start a business or secure their family's future from wills and trusts to LLC's and trademarks legalzoom is committed to helping people. Get started legalzoom dot com slash now. From NPR WB. You are I'm Jeremy Hobson. I Robin young. It's here. Now. Vermont independent Senator Bernie Sanders announced his second presidential bid this morning down home style on Vermont public radio later spoke on CBS this morning about joining an already crowded field of Democrats backing the progressive causes. He ran on Medicare for all raising the minimum wage to fifteen dollars an hour making public colleges and universities tuition free. All of those is the people people's all Bernie this. So radical people just won't accept those ideas. Well, you know, what's happening over three years all of those ideas, and many more now part of the political mainstream democratic strategists Mon Sanders, not related to Bernie, but tied it. Hip when she was his press secretary in two thousand sixteen is here and Simone, are you happy or worried? This is an older white man as the midterm show. Democrats are looking for young and diverse. You know, look, I think it's great that Senator Sanders is in the rights. I think the more folks the better, I think a robust democratic primary is what the Democratic Party needs. I am happy that the discourse in the not just the Democratic Party. But frankly, America as a whole is is is moving to accept and once things like universal healthcare healthcare as a right? So we'll Senator Sanders potentially incur in counter some challenges in with this current electorate, I think so and it remains to be seen if he has learned key lessons from his two thousand sixteen Rae. Let's talk about what some of those challenges might be had problems reaching out to African Americans despite your efforts to make that happen. You are African American. We reading the Sanders campus during a post mortem on that trying to fix it for twenty twenty. He paid a visit to South Carolina last month where the black vote went to Hillary Clinton. But then he also made his own state of the union rebuttal as Stacey Abrams the first black woman chosen to give a response was making hers for the party, your thoughts. Look, I'm not currently advising Senator Sanders now. But if I was I would tell him that he can't give fodder for the critics. And so giving the state of the union response after Stacey Abrams. I think invited unnecessary criticism. Yes. Senators Sandra struggled to garner. The support of African American voters in two thousand sixteen. I know now he's been the not only felt Carolina, but Detroit, Mississippi and number of other places since then a number of times the question becomes though in a field where there will be fifteen to twenty candidates will he be able to garner a substantial amount of support from a diverse part of the electorate to get the necessary delegate numbers. Let's talk about the comedy. The hill ranked the democratic candidates today. Sanders is third after Joe Biden new hasn't declared number two in California. Senator Kamala Harris who has she's number one. But polls generally put Sanders second behind Biden and Bernie Sanders can brag he's much younger than go by a year. There are seventy seven and Biden seventy eight but yesterday New Hampshire Kamala Harris was asked if she'd have to run as a democratic socialist to win New Hampshire like Bernie Sanders did. And she said, I'm not a democratic socialist. Now, look the were democrat their distinguishes, socialist Marxist socialism. It's still a democracy with all that entails. But you know, Republicans are having a field day with this. President Trump is calling Bernie Sanders. Crazy, Bernie blasting Democrats, all Democrats socialist. And getting this message out that that means that there won't be any private enterprise. This is what the Republicans are seizing on this. Bernie Sanders have to be careful with that. As there are so many progressives now in the running that people might be afraid of the. Party well, Robin. I think Senator Sanders has been a democratic socialist for his entire political career. And I don't think he's going to switch it up. But. With that is does he have to look I think honestly, I'm twenty nine years old as a millennial for whole generation of younger people socialism, quote, unquote, does not have the negative connotation that has for my parents generation. So not to say that it's not a question that Senator Sanders and his twenty twenty campaign we'll have to answer. But I honestly don't think it has the bite that it had maybe forty fifty years ago. What I think Senator Sanders will have to answer though, is how his platform is different than the other democratic quote unquote progressive contenders. There's not that much light and day between a number of these candidates. And so the difference between using Cory Booker out there on the campaign trail, saying let me tell you why I think you should vote for me specifically, and I think Senator Sanders will have to find a really good way to do that. And what I heard from his interview this morning and saying that, you know, he's not a woman, he's not a person of color. He's not this. I don't think that's the. Best way to do. It smooth Sanders. The democratic strategist and former press secretary for the Sanders two thousand sixteen campaign. No relation to Bernie Sanders. Simone. Thanks so much. Thank you rabbit. Chinese New Year comes to a close today. The nearly month-long celebrations conclude with a lantern festival and you're hearing one right there from province in eastern China right now, though, we are going to learn a bit more about the Chinese population here in the United States. And joining us now is John Wong professor of Asian American. Studies at the university of Maryland college park, she's on Skype. Professor, welcome. Thanks for having me. So there are more than two million Chinese-born immigrants living in the US. They make up the second biggest source of immigrants after Mexico where are they in twenty nineteen where are they most concentrated? Well, there's still concentrated in the traditional gateway states of California and New York about fifty percent of all Chinese are in those areas. But we also see that they are changing the demographic landscape of what we call new destination state. So they're growing very fast and even fast as in places like Nevada and AirAsia and. North dakota. Are there any places where they used to be in large numbers and aren't so much anymore that they've left? Well, they used to be much more highly concentrated in urban areas. And now we're seeing rapid growth and significant growth in the suburban areas outside of major cities like Los Angeles or Houston. Now in a lot of cities. There are Chinatowns often. There's like a gateway arch when you get into the China town, but gentrification has changed a lot of that across this country are Chinatown still the center of Chinese American activity or not they're really not. I think what we're seeing is a new kind of suburban Chinese enclave developing and those are places where people don't necessarily vote live and work. But where there might be a commercial or shopping area in Sugarland, Texas, for instance, or here in D C in a suburb called Rockville, so. Really seeing a change in the traditional Chinatown that was really a place that was segregated by localities, how well are Chinese people when they come to the United States assimilating so Chinese in the US have really changed such that now most Chinese the majority are very different from pass waves of immigration. They tend to be higher income high wealth and highly educated, and that means that they are actually some of the most integrated into residential areas in different occupations. And so we're seeing a lot of integration how much discrimination. Do they face? They as a lot of discrimination. It depends how you measure it so in terms of residential racial segregation, they do not phase as much as other groups, but in terms of microaggressions or assumptions about being let's say forever foreigner than we do see a lot of discrimination sixty. Percent of adult Chinese are usually not going to be native US speakers. And so we see some accent discrimination. We see a lot of assumptions about where people came from and where they belong and how often do they head back to China to visit her at what kind of ties do they keep with China? We do see some what we call trans-national circuits where people do visit China they visit relatives they might have businesses there. But we're not seeing the kind of dream of return that may be characterized previous waves of Chinese immigrants. What we see is really Chinese getting more and more involved in US, social and political life. Why do you think that is it's really about length of residence? So we've had a lot of growth since two thousand where we see the population doubling with each decade and. So we have a lot of long-term residents in the Chinese population. Now, they are not US born, but they've been in the US for fifteen or twenty years, and they are becoming increasingly interested in politics and in community life, where do they tend to fall politically in the United States? And that's a really interesting question. So for the last three decades, we've seen the entire Asian American population really moved to be strong backers of the Democrats in Chinese are no different in both two thousand sixteen in previous years. We've seen Chinese are more than twice as likely to support the democratic presidential candidate. So we see pretty solid democratic leanings at the same time. Chinese are the Asian group. That's most likely to say that they're nonpartisan, and we see a kind of growing conservative mobilization within the Chinese population too. So it's quite varied. What do Chinese Americans think of the Chinese political system right now? It's obviously very different than here in the US. Yeah. I think there's also a lot of both criticism and loyalty on the one hand Chinese feel like day support and respect China's growth, but at the same time, I think they have settled in the US and questioned some of the democratic shortcomings that they might see in China. That's professor John Wong who teaches Asian American studies at the university of Maryland college park. Thanks for joining us. Thank you for having me. You may never have heard of Lee Miller that happens to a lot of incredibly talented lovers of famous men. Born in one thousand nine hundred seven in poughkeepsie, New York Lee Miller became a successful model for vogue while in her teens soon after up and moved to Paris into the opium dens and jazz clubs of surrealist seen into the arms of the much older fame photographer Man, Ray first, his assistant, then muse than lover all along dulling the memory of childhood rape with drugs and alcohol while trying to sharpen her own Bashan for photography after men Ray and Lee Miller emotionally cannibalized each other. She launched her own career as a studio photographer, then an accredited war correspondent who was there. When camps were liberated took a bath in Hitler's tub, then later became a cordon bleu. Chef all amazing considering how much she drank to hold the darkness at bay first time author Whitney shared tells Lee Miller story and what the boss. Globe calls a dazzling seven figure debut novel an absolutely gorgeous and feminist novel about art love and ownership a work of art in itself. The book is called the age of light and Whitney share joins us in the studio. And we just want to set some ground rules here, you imagine whole storylines and conversations between Lee Miller and Man Ray. Yes, I do, but it's all pretty much based in truth Lee Miller was raped by a family friend. She called unclothe the age of seventy got an aerial disease. Her father did inappropriately take nude photos of her. She was a famous model. She was man Ray's lover, she was a war. Correspondent in the thick of things and the frontlines. All true. Yeah. I started with all of the biographical details that I could learn about Lee and a kept a huge those as much as I could and certainly certain scenes are heavily fictionalized. But in all cases, I really felt like I wanted to stay true to who. She was a woman did she really in Paris play a role in one of Jean Cocteau's, Phil she did she was in blood of a poet. It which was one of his earliest films, and I believe is still taught in film school today. And you can find it on YouTube. Yeah. Pretty cool. We'll you spent two years researching her I did before you wrote this as you peel back this onion were you as a mazed as we are. Absolutely. So I was initially drawn to her confidence in Embiid. I just found her to be this incredibly modern woman who moved alone to Paris. And I thought it was just so fascinating that she did that. But as I learned about her what I was most taken with was this fragility that was underneath the surface of her confidence that came from all of these traumas that she endured in childhood and all of the subsequent objectifications by men, her father fashion, photographers, Man Ray. And that I think is what makes her such a complex and interesting character. And one of the wonderful things is when we get to the end of your book, you direct us to others about her nonfiction books, which we're going to run to you mentioned men Ray, he obviously and all the men in her life would say they loved her. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, what is true about their photography? And by the way, you have one of the most sensual scenes having this is going to replace the ghosts seen where they make a pot together. This is one Man Ray brings his then assistant we Miller into this dark room to teach you how to develop film, and they're they are in the dark. She feels men behind her. But cannot see him his hand hovers over hers heat radiating off his skin. I mean, it's just amazing thing. But she she does become this photographer. We see she has talent. And it's something she can control rather than being the object. But you also make the case that she discovered something called solar reservation. This is a technique that changes light tones into dark ones versus everything when a mouse runs over her foot, and she accidentally turns a light on others have said they discovered it together. Yes. So this is a fascinating story. And was there was so much about Miller that I found so intriguing but uh she tended to. To mythologised her life in later interviews. And so the scene that she describes an interview I think in nineteen seventy six year before she died, and she talks about this exact thing happening. Is it true? I don't know. You know, it's a story she told, and I don't know if it's her just trying to kind of make legend out of her past. But if that's the case, I find that interesting to all. But is it true that he might have taken some of her work and entered it, you know, as his own so they were constantly writing their names on prince that the other made and both of them were quoted as saying, oh, it didn't matter who took the pictures. We were working so closely together in the dark room that his work could have been my work and her work could have been his work. That's all well and good except that Man Ray was the one who was getting most of the credit for that work, which I think is a little problematic. Well in you dive into that vein. I mean, did she express that she felt that she could not get out from behind his fame? She did she became. More and more frustrated throughout the relationship. Both by being clips by him. And also by his increasing jealousy. You know, he talked about how he wanted her to be young and free. And what he really wanted was for her to commit to being with him for the rest of her life, which wasn't prepared to do. Right. We know she has another relationship because it's alluded to throughout again, we direct you to biographies of her, but she was a war correspondent and at did team up with a life Ataka for David Dave Sherman, Sherman and did take a famous picture took all of her clothes off when they got into Hitler's home after he died and climbed into the bath tub and took a bath in Hitler's tub. She did do that. Yeah. Isn't that? Incredible. It is. And also, we're thinking I mean, when we think of the time this is in she's one of the few via mail correspondence, there were others given that she was we know she's broken. We know this is a young woman as a teenage she's broken. We see the effect of the childhood. What is the effect tat on her? It's kind of amazing that she did anything that. She did with that big break, your it's true. I think that the war was this final trauma that came on top of all of these other traumas that she'd experienced in her childhood, and and in Paris, too, and you know, after the war she did try to continue doing photography for a while. She moved back to England and was still working as a correspondent for vogue, but it kept getting harder and harder for her to do it. And eventually she actually boxed up all of her negatives. And photographs and literally hold them up to her attic and never talked about them. So her own she had one child her son Antony Penrose, he wasn't even aware that his mother was a photographer until practically the time of her death. Really? Yeah. She just never ever spoke about it. Which is you know wild. That's astonishing. Yeah. And in fact, when we meet her we meet her in your book towards the end. Yeah. We meet her as a frumpy kind of. Emissions a hot mess. Living in the countryside bottles stashed everywhere trying to calm her nerves to have a dinner party. She does pull off an amazing seven course meal gourmet chef, but she's lost her looks. It's such a sad story. It is a sad story. And I think she was such a creative person that once she gave up photography, you know, she then through all of that creativity into cooking, but she was suffering from undiagnosed PTSD, she was an alcoholic. She was probably clinically depressed. And she was just a woman who she had had such ambition such potential, and then you kind of see her life narrow at the end. It does feel as if she does have something of a resurgence that she gets to see there are shows of her work and his work together. And you write about them potentially meeting up. Decades after their affair do. We know what's to about that. Yeah. In real life, Lee Miller and men Ray had this tempestuous relationship for about three years. They completely lost touch because the their break-up was very painful and terrible for both of them. She moved to New York City and opened her own photography studio there, and then did a bunch of other things. She married an Egyptian man moved to Egypt all sorts of stuff. But right after World War Two she and men Ray reconnected. They didn't see each other very often by that point. He was living in Los Angeles. She was living in London, but the correspondent by letter and men Ray sent her gifts and then at the end of their lives. There was a retrospective of men raise work. And I believe Lee was asked to speak at that. In any case. She went there and met met up with Man Ray. And there's this amazing story that I had wanted to include in my book, but it didn't end up fitting. Where they found each other at the exhibit. And apparently there was this giant cardboard storage to Blang on its side that I guess a sculpture had been sent in or something and men Ray old infirm, crawled in one end of it and shouted for Lee to crawl in the other end, and then they met in the middle. Just find that. So beautiful. Comforting. And and how 'bout as a oh. A woman yourself an artist writing your first book. Yeah. What kind of emotions did you go through reading about what happened to her? I found myself at first feeling like leeann, I were not very similar because she was this beautiful model who seemed to on the surface seem to have this perfect life, and in many ways, and then as I got to know her, and I realized actually it wasn't perfect that she had experienced this trauma in her past. I also haven't I haven't had that happened to me either. But as I was thinking about her so deeply over these years what I did really connect to with her was her artistic journey, and as a woman writer, I have spent my whole life not feeling able to call myself a writer until now that I have this book coming out. And I think that that's something that women writers. Artists experience all the time that we don't feel like we sort of deserve to take the space to make our art. I'm not sure why that is. But I definitely felt that and I and other women writers that I know feel it as well. And so I really connected with Lee very deeply in her desire to make space for her own work. Well, let's terrific book the age of light Whitney Scher. Congratulations. And thank you. Thank you rub in and we're going to have some links to photographs at here now dot org. One an archive of leave. Miller's work and other pictures. We'll also have an excerpt of the age of lakes. Here. And now is supported by legalzoom want you to know that if you wanna make twenty nineteen year you finally start a business or secure your family's future. Legalzoom can help with their network of independent attorneys. Licensed in all fifty states legalzoom can help you navigate your legal needs from wills and trusts to LLC's trademarks contract for us and more. And the best part is legalzoom is not a law firm. So they don't charge by the hour. More at legalzoom dot com slash down. The movie green book is up for five nominations at Sunday's Oscars. It's based on the true friendship between the famed African American musician. Don, Shirley, and his white driver. Tony Villalonga in the nineteen sixty segregated south. There have been Shirley, family members who say the story isn't entirely true. But one thing definitely is the pair was assisted by the negro motorist green book an actual travel guide. First published in nineteen thirty six listing places in the US that allowed black customers hundreds in North Carolina. Where there's now an effort to document them Neo me preloader WNYC reports. Live jazz music and conversations flow during Sunday brunch at the historic magnolia house in Greensboro, North Carolina customer Evelyn Makinson looks at a new photo display hanging on wall. Now, go find some of these places if they still exist as Marne street, I know that's right around the call the display highlights magnolia house listing and the negro motorist screen book and make him send won't have to search for other sites because the North Carolina African American heritage commission is documenting all the North Carolina sites listed in the book. The green book included barbershops, movie theaters, homes gas stations and hotels that welcomed blacks as customers during racial segregation in the US, the North Carolina green book project is creating traveling exhibits and an online component. That shows. What sites are still standing it will debut March of next year? Lisa withers is a research historian for the project being able to say like these spaces are important. They matter I think is something that is really important through this process. In addition to the people who live there during the book's publication from nineteen thirty six to nineteen sixty six three hundred twenty seven North Carolina sites were listed, fourteen businesses in Greensboro were listed in the green book, only three are still standing and one of them is the bag Nola house. Magnolia house opened its doors as a motel to African Americans in nineteen forty nine guests like recharges, James Brown, and Jackie Robinson, all stayed there. In the nineteen seventies a closed doors and fell into disrepair, Greensboro native. Sam pass bought the home in nineteen ninety-five. It took him roughly fourteen years to restore it and reopen it as a brunch and event venue pass says back in the day. It was a special place for travelers who rested their heads. There. It meant that they were comfortable they didn't have to worry about looking over their backs. They didn't have to worry about the offensive racism. They were home pass remembers his own travels during segregation. And how the green book helped I recall sleeping. In the car. I recall going to Atlanta and having to stay at someone's house because there were no hotel facilities. Researchers story in Lisa weather is wants to capture these kinds of memories she entered team or traveling across the state to record the stories of people who travel during segregation. Or remember the sites listed in the green book without the human stories. A building is just a building. But I do think that it makes a difference. When you start thinking about oh, somebody was able to send their kids to college. But having his drugstore here. That's why it's so important to Evelyn make him send to have brunch of the magnolia house with her son every Sunday. She doesn't want to see another business that helps the black community close. We're talking about black stablishment. So. So once we have one, and I enjoy the food and the atmosphere and everything I'm gonna home and give my support to them and recording the stories and memories about these black establishments will help him legacy to them and a new future for generations to come for here. And now, I'm the OB prelaw in Greensboro, Angie. Listening deer. Now. We're going to spend the next few days looking at a problem in this country and a number of solutions to it. The problem is homelessness. They're more than a half a million people in this country who have been identified as homeless some of the solutions can be found in the four places. We'll be hearing from starting with New Orleans where the homeless population more than doubled after Hurricane Katrina in two thousand seven there were more than eleven thousand six hundred homeless people in New Orleans since then the city has reduced homelessness by ninety percent. Joining us now is Martha Caygill executive director of unity of greater New Orleans. That's a nonprofit collaborative that provides housing and services to the homeless. Martha welcome thank you. It's great to be here. So ninety percent. That sounds pretty impressive. What has New Orleans done to have that kind of success? So we faced, you know, just an unprecedented explosion in homelessness, and we basically, you know, relied on three major. Factors to really bring down homeless. I we assembled would I'd have to describe as a kick ass outreach team that was willing to go anywhere and do anything to rescue and rehouse a homeless person. Secondly, we really put together a pot of rennaissance because the answer to homelessness is housing. People tend to not understand that. But it really is about providing housing, and then the third thing is really about targeting that housing to the people who need it the most, and we take an approach which has been widely adopted around the country, but wasn't adopted at the time that we were first approaching this a decade ago, and that's called housing. I it's simply the idea that you accept people as they are. And you don't expect them to necessarily be clean and sober. You don't expect him to be able to take their psychiatric medication while they're out on the street. But you just accept them as they are. And you provide. The housing first. Then once they're in their apartment, you immediately wrap all the services around them that they need to stay stable and live the highest quality life that they can live. But we're how do you afford that because in order to provide housing first you've got to have a house, and you've gotta have something that will pay for that. Actually, this is a very cost effective approach. Because when you think about it. It is costing the taxpayer a tremendous amount of money to leave people on the street because they're constantly cycling in and out of jail on charges that wouldn't even be relevant if they had an apartment things like urinating in public drinking and public obstructing the sidewalk because they're having to sleep on the sidewalk homeless offenses. In other words, that are costing the taxpayers a lot of money to be putting them in jail and processing them through the criminal Justice system. Their health is deteriorating while they're out on the street. So they're being taken by. By ambulance to the emergency room constantly, those are huge charges. And really what you need is. You know, a relatively small amount of money to pay for some ran assistance, and they can contribute some of that rent as well with disability benefits, or if they're able to work with, you know, employment income and a little bit of case management assistance. It really has been proven over and over again in studies to be very cost effective, and what's the long term solution. How long do the people that you have helped end up staying in these I would assume temporary housing situations? They're not temporary this is permanent housing. How long the renaissance since last depends on what people need, and we're kind of masters at trying to spread what is always an inadequate amount of money as far as it'll spread. So there are many people who do have serious mental health issues. Those folks may very well need rennaissance in case management for the. Rest of their lives, but others particularly families. For example, the parent may be young and maybe lost her job, and she's addicted and she ends up having to sleep in her car with her kids that situation we might provide rennaissance for a period of months, then what we have found is that she's able to make it on her own after that. So we really individually triage people and give them what they need to stay stable and then assist. The next person. Another thing. New Orleans has done is. It's ended veteran homelessness. Right. Well, we have reached what we call functional zero which means that we compiled a list using our outreach team using our shelter lists. That are updated every night and we housed in their own apartments. Every veteran on that list except nine that had refused housing mostly because of mental illness, and we continued to work with those nine at. That point have housed four more of them. And then going forward we have made a commitment that anytime a veteran becomes newly homeless. We house them in an apartment within an average of thirty days or less and we've maintained that now for over four years. We're extremely proud of that it is very hard work. It requires a lot of organizations working together and the VA and the housing authority everybody working together to make that happen. We've also reduced the length of time that any homeless family spends homeless to less than forty five days when we're working on bringing that number down because the research shows that you know, even the best run shelter is no place for a kid to be. What are the challenges that still remain in New Orleans, or what's the biggest challenge that you have at this point in trying to get that ninety percent to one hundred percent of homelessness eliminated. Well, we still have a relatively high proportion of our homeless people having to live outside, and you know, it's just something that we're constantly struggling with. It seems almost as if for every person that we house that someone new is appearing, and that's because of this affordable housing crisis the gentrification that we're facing. And so we just have to keep at it. We have to keep at it. And we have to ask government at all levels to do more to provide housing resources. We have to have housing for the elderly. We have to make sure that children aren't homeless. That's that's part of being a of a healthy community and a and a country that has a moral core. I wanna ask you one more thing. Martha k go, which is why. What is the one thing that you've done that you when you look at other cities or other places in the country that are dealing with homelessness that they haven't done that. You would say this is the first thing you need to do. I think at at its core that tackling homelessness is really about knowing and loving your community. You have to love the people in your community and want your community thrive and care very deeply about the vulnerable people in it that you're willing to do whatever it takes whatever it takes is what you have to do. It's amazing. How housing can almost instantly change a person I can think of a woman, for example, who was very of paranoid schizophrenic. She was sleeping outside in the parking lot of a fast food restaurant for about ten years and had refused assistance which. Isn't actually the typical thing. Most homeless people want to be housed, but she was actually very difficult to help. And we finally had an apartment that we thought would appeal to her because had outdoor courtyard, and we showed her a picture of it. And she actually just got in the outreach fan without speaking. She was ready to go. So that day, actually, we were dedicating this apartment building. This was a hot hot day in late June in New Orleans. But no matter what time of year it was. She was always bundled up in a winter coat heavy winter Kotan, and she refused to eat the reception food off the plate. Instead, she would pick up scraps of food that had been dropped that were on the concrete floor of the courtyard. I remember that very clearly her doing that. Well that was a Friday and the following Tuesday. I went in the building, and I didn't recognize her because she had gone. With her case manager through this box of donated clothing. And when I saw her she was wearing just a light cotton floral summer dress, and she looked happy in I teared up. You know, it was just such a dramatic thing. And she's been stabling happily housed ever since. That is Bertha k goal who is executive director of unity of greater New Orleans trying to deal with homelessness there in New Orleans and get people into homes. Thank you so much for joining us. Martha. Thank you. We know that e cigarettes those little devices at the liver, nicotine laced, vapor often fruit flavored can help people quit smoking. But they can also entice young people in particular to start. And even if that doesn't happen. Pediatrician say they're seeing teens with physical and mental health effects a single pot of jewel, they say can contain as much nicotine as an entire pack of cigarettes, and it's absorbed into the body more quickly in December surgeon general Jerome Adams issued a rare advisory declaring e cigarettes a youth epidemic. So what's a parent to do? Well, maybe test your kids Lauren middlebrooks is an assistant professor of pediatrics and emergency medicine with children's healthcare of Atlanta. Dr middlebrooks, welcome. My pleasure. Tell us how concerned you are. There. We understand you've addressed this in a message to parents. Yes, I have. So I I'm concerned. Because at this point the CDC is concerned in his now calling. Epidemic in twenty eight teen aid to the national youth tobacco survey that showed a seventy eight percent increase in the use of e cigarettes among high schoolers. So they're thinking that there are about three million high school students one in every five teenagers using e cigarettes now and about half of a million middle school children. So you sit down a message and talked about products that can check for nicotine end or coated nine. What is that first of all and how these devices work, what is it that we're taking in all the main ingredient in vape, pens, the addictive ingredient is nicotine, and so that nicotine can break down into code nine which actually stays in the system a little bit longer than nicotine. So both of those nicotine and co two nine are things that can be tested in the blood the urine here and also the saliva, and we understand a hair follicle actually might hold onto the. The nicotine for a lot longer even ninety days. Yes. So the testing for nicotine and Cote nine can be broken down into qualitative tests, which is just the positive or negative which are the more common type, and then a quantitative test, which is just the blood test which shows the concentration of that in the bloodstream the qualitative tests, which I'll focus on our the, negative or positives. And those are the ones that are more easily accessible, but the hair follicles can actually detect nicotine or coat nine in the system for up to three months. However, it is a longer turnaround time, and it's very expensive. You just mentioned the cost lab tests can run from seventy dollars on up is this covered by insurance the cost of these tests at this point, it does not seem to be covered by insurance. The one example of in a case where it may be covered as if someone is actively being treated at the hospital for a nicotine toxicity. We'll tell us more about what you recommend parents. Do the follicle testing? I is that only in the lab, and you know, what kind of tests can apparent get to do at home the urine tests, the saliva test and even the hair follicle. Tests are available online the urine tests typically are the most easily access in the most easy to use. And you get a quicker answer for less amount of money. So the urine tests can detect nicotine or coat nine in the system for three days to up to three weeks. So for urine the test range between anywhere between fifteen to twenty five dollars. So that's probably the most parent friendly tests that I would recommend if you are interested in detecting nicotine or coat nine further out than a saliva tests would be another alternative these could be a little bit more expensive, but can detect nicotine or coat nine for up to four weeks out after inhalation exposure. And then the blood is not as easy to get. Because obviously, you would need a flow bottomless or someone who could. Obtain blood from your child with an IB stick that can detect levels from anywhere between three days attendees, that's the most accurate of all the tests, but it's also the most expensive, and it's also the one that requires a specialist to do. I mean, look this huge debate around vaping their school systems considering putting up security cameras in bathrooms, which is where kids tend to go to do it. What how how do you feel about those who might say? This is too invasive bape ING is nowhere near the worst thing that a kid could do how would you respond to that? It's very important for appearance. One to understand the effect that they've been can have on their child and then to for them to explain that. So that the child also understands the effect of raping children and adults scence still have a developing brain. And the last thing to mature in the brain the frontal lobe, which controls organizing, concentration empathy risk taking, and there's some studies that have shown nicotine causing some cognitive. Processing delays memory delays and inattention, and there's also been studies that show it can cause depression and anxiety. So what would you recommend to parents, how should they approach this? And do you have a choice between the kid that you can do this yourself with or the lab, it would be wise to involve ones pediatrician and making that decision of whether or not to chest your child, and then what tests exactly to use the blood tests are very accurate, but they're very expensive. So it would be my recommendation to do a urine test because it's more cost effective and you get quick results. That's Lauren middlebrooks and assistant professor of pediatrics emergency medicine with children's healthcare of Atlanta. One of the cities where there are now labs doing vape testing, Dr middlebrooks. Thank you so much. Thank you very much for having me. So what do you think test kids for vaping way in here now dot org? Here now is a production of NPR and WVU aren't association. With the BBC World Service. I'm Robin young. I'm Jeremy Hobson. This is here in.

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#108 Moo's Craft Barbecue and Heritage Barbecue

Best BBQ Show

33:27 min | 1 year ago

#108 Moo's Craft Barbecue and Heritage Barbecue

"The comment. Now. The need. No, the aid now I got job bad. Deputy buckle razor on. They attacked on within into. On on the land be catching hell. You're listening to the best barbecue show. And this week, once again, we are in LA for the LA times, food, will an event full of interesting. World-famous pitmasters Aaron Franklin standing there with his double barrel. Pit that's been hanging out in Adam Perry lanes, a garage for while it was interesting to see because the amount of offset pits has I think exponentially grown since Aaron Franklin opens doors, most people didn't even know what those were most of Merrick's still doesn't know what they are. But there, I was standing in the middle of Los Angeles at grand park, right in front of city hall, and we've got moved barrels, Matt horns, offset Burt. Of course, brought to see his flagship red rims whitewall tires. The green patina just a beautiful, pit cooked pastrami and brisket on the front of his name. Josh carnivore kingdom on Instagram. Interesting guy. But on top of that we had Sam Jones, big brick pit cooking a whole hog and then even bigger pit from Pat Martin, who was actually cooking one hundred twenty racks ribs, that Aaron and Peter Mehan everyone there participated in flipping and saw saying because have Martin and his group and do it all by themselves. And everyone wanted to say that, you know, got the mop at least one records on this week's episode. I'm talking to moose Kraft barbecue they've been killing it with their pop-ups here people sprint to their stand. It's Marcus Borg LA the moment, the doors open. So they're pretty popular come a long way, and they even mention talking about maybe a brick and mortar, they're working on it, and I hope they can open it soon. I'll of course, be there at the opening. I'm planning on coming back to Elliott least one one more time this year. I'm working hard to travel for the show to keep the stories. Interesting to chase down the story for you. The listeners. Also, we have heritage barbecue, Danny, and brenick has DO amazing power couple cooking like crazy doing pop-ups that what sounds like only the nicest Burris in California, making brisket sausage. He's a machine. Danny came in cooked breads backyard barbecue for I think a week just to learn just to be around them. Brett's got a pretty cool. Pit the whole pit rooms pretty amazing. He's got a direct pit. Very similar to the one. It snows. It's a it's just a cool space to being. I hope you guys enjoy the separated. If you have any questions thoughts, whatever I'm always on my best barbecue Instagram. That's best barbecue. Spelled out be. ES. T. A. R. B. E C semi damn you. Wanna tell me something you wanna talk about an episode. You got a question. Maybe I can relay some barbecue questions. To some people that can give you some expert answers. I love talking to the barbecue fam- all the people, I get to converse with my DM's are filling up. But honestly I'd love to get even more. They have any questions you have any thoughts. Maybe even connect me. With more people wanna be on the show slide into those DM's, but for now, enjoy this episode with heritage barbecue, and moose Kraft barbecue. I'm here at the pits heritages barbecue talk right into the end there, sir. Monster. Got buzzed by curse barbecue podcast, right here. All your friends are here. What's the like so it's this is amazing. Man. I wish I could have been here last night because I that's that's kinda like where most of the action went down. They were here we doing now is my son's birthday party yesterday. Mother's day birthday parties excuses. She wanted she wanted to come out barbecue for mother's day, and it could. That's a pretty good way to spend mother's day. Yeah. Absolutely. You gotta hat out of it. At least. Joan son came out strong today. Hey. It's a I think the Texas son made it to California, somehow polio, because, it's it was kind of overcast kinda cold for a little bit. It was only like seventy everyday when I checked the weather, you know how the weatherman is for sure. So you try to everything. Yeah. Tons of good bites. Did you you have a favorite? You have anything interesting that you noticed, you know, I don't I don't wanna sound kind of biased for, you know, as being here in California. But I think we're doing pretty good out here. California bites were awesome. Yeah. Moose grou- barbecue. Yeah. The they killed has got some footage of that. And I wouldn't expect anything less than than what did they put out? I gotta say the Ohio was pretty tasty, and I have never had, you know genuine Carolina barbecue before. So that was an experience cooked by genuine. Cal Carolina boys. It's right. And the first time in the big city really, they live in a town of five thousand. Well, have you been down there? Now I haven't, but I we met them trying to find the rooftop of the standard where everyone of staying. Oh, we just ran into him. And I was with the Franklin guys, they're like a Yoko for Franklin. We're from North Carolina. What else Sam Jones best friends around a drink up with a with Roman with him already to go to sleep. He's been working man. He's been up all night that do work twenty hours at a time. I was trying to get him to go out to the club tonight. But he said that he's not. Hit the LA. Well, you know, you're a man who likes to work hard like that, too. You know, when these guys are cooking. They really think or want to do anything else. It's, it's nice to be able to be on the other side for a little bit. You know, you get to just come on unites bandanna cleans. They claimed somewhat. I wore black just in case, although I must have gotten Greece on this shirt, one of my areas. I'm not gonna say which one but I put it up on YouTube, and I looked and I was like now they're just a bunch of grease spots on that shirt, green ones come through just a few but yeah, those oxtail for Matt Horne really tasty. Actually, my first time meeting, Matt. So that was great. Finally meet him after talking with them back and forth Nisa ground for so long. And, and I gotta say that bagel that Dernie did with that pastrami bacon. Yeah, man. It's so killer. But you know, nobody likes food. That's cold. At least I don't like to cold. So that's like a big thing if even if it's gonna be a small bite. You're saying table, bring it out fresh and hot and the execution that perfectly everything was nice and toasty warm perfect. Yeah. They toasted the bunks there was some serious prep going on it, especially, I think Lewis had the most steps. Yeah. But there are there are a lot of, you know, the few places, we're just pulling hot meat out of. A warmer but everyone else was kind of making everything to order. It was pretty fun to watch. Yeah. And Adam Perry Lang's beef rib was amazing. I'm not a beef rib guy and. Those flavors that came out. I mean he's a chef so I'm sure he probably Brian, those things or marinated them. Try spice on. It was it was so killer, man. I mean, I'm not be guy usually too rich for me. And they were just delicious. Did you did you get a bone? I got a bone. Yeah. I ate it clean men like savage. He walked up, and I was like, did they give you half a bone? He's like, no it on the air. You wanna hold bone. Why not? I'm like, nah, I'm probably pick at it and give the rest but not kill the whole thing. Well don't do stuff like Truman, right. Do you have anything coming up or you? Yeah. We have a pop up in downtown Santa, Ana on the nineteen that's called the good beer company, and they're small little Bary right off four street. And gather beers are pretty good. They do a lot of sours you while beers kind of similar to what they do at two rue. And so we'll be doing only go to the fancy Burs man. You gotta like the high class stuff. Well, you know, we're, we're lucky enough to, to work, our way up from the kind of a smaller less known breweries, and we're able to kind of, you know, like acting after we did two ru and embolic for Orange County. Those are like the big. I mean those are known worldwide we look for too is not only good beers. But we have to have enough seating for all. Make sure you know indoor rooms because it's can get hot waiting outside. So we think about that when we're selected our next pop of location because we have a big following a least a hundred if not more, we have some breeze. That, that ask us, you know, hey, when you're gonna come back, and it's kinda kinda sucks. Can't really go back to those places anymore just because the type of crowd that we draw and it's kind of unfair to our guest now have a place of said. Yeah, you know, maybe not enough glasses. Four beers. In that sort of thing. Hey, it's, it's hard going. Big time. Bigger is a handle your big time barbecue. Yeah. We have something big coming up here before the end of the year. So we're putting a lot of energy into the heritage barbecue on Instagram. It out barbecue there's a lot of good stuff. This dudes. I mean I wanna say you're the most loving person barbecue but they're just so much love. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know if I can even quantify it. Yeah. Everybody everybody's much teddy bears. Yeah. That's how we like it. That's right. Easy. Sure. Friendly sharing. I you know, how many people from L A. We're like, how did you decide like we didn't fight over the space. Just like we share it put our stuff wherever we could fit it way. Well, that's kind of like barbecue meant to be that way. Mitsubishi aired so many meant to be love. Speaking of love, you got a message. You know, I always ask about the message to the meat men jer women out there. What do you, you know, you're, you're substantially beyond where you last talked on the podcast? Right. You did a stodgy and Texas. I think that was the last time we talked to. Sure. And so, you know, how do you feel about the business with life like just killing it day? It's, it's a it's up and down. You know, it's good to have somebody by your side to kinda keep you level, sometimes happy, mother's day. And for lack of a better word we will really blast from what's happening. I, I don't know it to, you know, I know that we're winning Repub products and that sort of thing, just. Unity, and the people are, are being more educated on barbecue, and they're coming out, and supporting crafts, so from secondhand view when he got back from Texas. He his mental fire got reached out to, like, yes. Exactly. Looking definitely in cooking. And then today to just being rubbing elbows. Everybody it gets mind going again. When I had so many people offer me, you know, come in here, and I, I don't really need to be here. I mean I'm not really a part of this, but it's been nice invited. You know, part of come on, I'm lucky enough to have some good, friends, and good people around. So, like you guys back in Texas, and my friends here, California. Well, and I think that this is I think the beginning of a beautiful relationship between Los Angeles and the west coast barbecue, the LA times, the west coast barbecue with, you know, the barbecue that's all over the world. And as long as we all stayed connected, and we're cool. Yeah, there's going to be a dozen of. These over the next ten year. I think this events going to be really good for the city of Los Angeles for sure it's going to open a lot of ice to, you know, something like this is kind of here. So we're gonna have to figure out how to make, you know, stay here. Yeah. So yeah, you talking mostly about like cooking with smokers yet offsets. And that sort of thing for sure there, you guys need to start like a political action committee or something. We're fighting a fight right now. And we like I don't know if I told you, but, you know, we are allowed to pop up Sabir is now legally with department. So this is this is recent within the last week, so gradulate ninety that wants to know to learn how they can do that. They can I'm more than they can contact me and I'll tell them what they need to do to make that happen. We know we're in the forefront of making a happen. And it was a lot of work, but we're there now. So. Yeah. And I think it's cool because you talk a lot about how, you know, being on the west coast, you send. People aggressives you Tex people like we, we all kind of communicate outside of this, and it's great the accessibility. And the advice you get to give now that you perceive, it just as constant flow of great people talking. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Everybody's coming around to, you know, laws are changing for the better. And. Event is sold out in California, where this kind of cooking is not, you know, legal in the line for Franklin's was just as long as it is back in office. Ever got served a little faster because they only had one choice. Yeah. One brisket. Get pretty good though. Yeah. Surprised that they made it sound like it was going to be pandemonium but it was pretty good. Well, paced. Yeah. There was a moment for like a good hour. Everything was just slam getting thing. Let's you walk around back. But just all you do a couple times. Oh, yeah. Three kinds of wristbands. Go everywhere. You know what I mean? Story under every corner, every nook and cranny, and I now that I'm taking a lot more visual stuff. I've been seeing that it's a it's cool to get back there because people wanna see that absolutely. I, I feel like I'm just an extension. You know, just get to put it out there. Connects so. Well, like it's. Yeah. Well, I like it later, you know, Sammer AP L, or somebody might be like, oh, I'm glad you got that shot or whatever. Sure, I get to share. I often, we'll send people, I'm starting to try to make little dropbox folders and share them with nine they can just have all the footage. I have because everybody's so busy. Yeah. You know, I took I took a ton of pictures for Andrew, Michelle. I got some. I got really good ones. Aaron Franklin eating his taco this creepy like base behind him. You know. Oh, you know, I'm sure they're gonna love to have that beautiful face. It wasn't creepy. Oh, yeah. Try. I'm kind of trying to be the wiretap so that we all kind of people just wanna see what's going on. They don't want, like a lot of these cameras. And he's big rigs of people going around with the show for three hours, fourteen minutes, you know. Sure, I'm trying to I'm trying to get as much out as possible. There's people that can't be here, man, especially, you know, people that vol, you from Texas and all over the, the world now there's Australians following us, right? Is there? Really? Yeah. I saw some I've been I've been lurking in your comments. Have you just just liking stuff? Then I saw some funny shit the whole world watching all of a sudden, just within the past few months had so many followers just constantly, you know what's going on. What happened? What did we what are we doing different than all of a sudden? Things things kind of typical enter every once in a while, just like. Something explode. Yeah. You're like, well, how is this happening? All of a sudden you see all these like followers in one game. Like what video out somewhere? I don't know about, you can get on the explore page. That's what happened with one of my sausage videos. I shot Brandon doing the green chili sausage Tejas and it's not even like it's just a spiral. But it's just really it's a good Shah. And I gave it like a little zoom and it has like ninety thousand views. Have you have you heard of that tick tock stuck yet, tick tock? Oh, the F, yet I have to talk. Yeah, I guess some somebody a lot of kids, somebody sent me something of me breaking apart pork, but had like five hundred thousand views on it or something. And it was like trending. Crazy. For like, like there's nine year olds. Yeah. I'm saying does he? Just the I mean it's just like any else just got thirty out there. Most people do like these weird, it has this, editing aspect that you can like lip sync. And there's a there's a musically thing that happened in the tech dot bought it. There's, there's a log on. I watched like four ninth streamers getting. I love grad because I'm the first year or I should say the oldest possible millennial. I'm like I got a foot like a kid. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like that, too. But. Good to have you here. Yeah. Not from originally from Los Angeles. But we're in Orange County, but great to have you here with our within our Senator. Yeah. I I'm planning a lot more west coast trip. So how'd you like you man? What do you think about the city? I I I'm here knows like my third time. This is my first time really it was usually with friends visiting people. So this is my first chance to just like jumping Newburgh get a jump bike ride around. I went to like five places very often ish to you. Not. Really? So what do you think about the traffic compared to Austin traffic, I I've been over? Is that a hole in the podcast? It's an hour. You know. So the awesome airport if you friend, you have to pick up, I don't leave my house, so they land. Yeah, it takes like an hour, just to get to the airport here. It's crazy. Sure. Yup. Yeah. And then you have to get to the airport, you know, like bars early to you never know what's going to happen around here, and it's. It's just so much fun dude. Yeah. I love I love being in a big city of energy is harder for me to sleep. Like I just wanna go. Go go. I know I can eat at three in the morning. But that's the way we feel when we come to Austin. Yeah, it's travel bone posting that, that you got here and that you were you kinda like little bit fall in love with the place. Yeah. That's the same shit that we feel when we go to Austin, you know, we get excited get like, you know, ready to go out there and do some shit. Oh. Austin, everything kinda ends at, like ten midnight. I went to the original pantry. Let one of the morning. Oh, yes. So legit. That toast is a little much good. Have you went into the little delicatessens around here? Now, I wanna go to lingers to man for sure. I wanna go get a phillippe's uncle Pauly's is near slab. I wanna go to that. APO. What about phillippe's haven't been there was that it's right here by Union Station? Okay. It's they do French friendship. Subs there? It's been there since like nineteen the wet. Joshu. Yeah. They have a lamb and have roast beef that regional wine. And they, you know, you can get them like wet or like extra wet or whatever I need to find people to share this stuff with myself. Yeah. Yeah. For. Sure. And then Kohl's to get so polls phillippe's kind of like they've been rivals for since like the twenties or something. And they both claim that the invented that fresh, it's kind of, like the, the yeah. Yeah. She stakes. Yeah. Seem kind of deal. Personally, I think I love Kohl's better. Plus they have. I hate lists man. I'm so tired. I know trying to create drama. That's why you have to try bulletin for yourself. Yeah. Trying to lens day. So I got a few days, that's enough time to rage. Rage, bro. I'm just I'm just happy. I found like cheap Airbnb with the, the guy who I'm staying with the cement. I'm a Dodger Stadium. Okay. So you're by China town. It's like out in the other side of the highway. Yeah, there's a Highland part Burri right there, man. Really? All right. All right. Any other messages, the fans out there, the ones that are dying to do more than just see you on Instagram come on out and support the craft and. You know, if you have any advice anything you might need to hit me up, and we can talk anytime, follow us on Instagram because that's where postwar will next be at our next day. We'll be in Santa Ana on the nineteenth, and then the twenty eighth sometimes I go on Facebook. I'm like, man haven't been on here for. I'll look and I'll have, you know, ten messages and mainly on regal nuts. Where are you going next chick, my last close coming to a very, very good for you. That's right. Is barbecue. Thank you. Thank you. I'm here with moose craft barbecue with on Andrew, what's new? Wow. Wow today. Tell me everything the whole weekend, actually. Yeah, it was pretty mazing event. We got we got a direct message from Adam about two months ago. Hey, I'm putting together this all-star barbecue with the LA times, you, you interested. And I was just like how yeah no idea who's going to be on it. Other than Adams sprains. And I know he has some pretty cool friends, and, and then a couple of weeks ago, I found out who those friends are going to be, and I would just like no way you know, like bucket list. I barbecue festival. And it was just like you know, some of the heaviest hitters out there LA. Was even better. Yes. It feels like more often, it really does doesn't feel like we're in Los Angeles, so grateful to have this opportunity to hear the helicopters and the giants hall behind us. There's smokers there's brick pits. It's another world. Or it's all I know of LA because I haven't really been here for any other barbecue events. Yeah. Well, it hasn't really been many barbecue events. So I just us you weekend warriors doing it every weekend or, or smokers Burg and things like that. So the this, this Marcus Borg sprint, I think is what they're gonna have to start calling. Everyone's at the front is you starting blocks. We should the front. Yeah. The first one to the place gets an extra half or something. You get a whole sausage. I. Yeah. Right after this. So you guys cooked a bunch of stuff. Was it? You know, you, you had a good team pleading. It's the first time I got to meet your team. How do you find such great barbecue people on the west coast? I mean the the passion for people just love it. Whether it's here are any other part of the country. And when we decided to smorgasbord, we put it out there on our on our Instagram page. And we had a lot of response like oh, yeah. Wanna help you I to help you and, and shark men, Dan, Instagram handle, Dan yet at, you know, they were kinda regular is that our pop up. So it's kinda like well we know they love barbecue and they were cool guys. Let's let's, let's get these guys and they've been great. They come out here. They help us mortgage bar. They came out here for the for the cook this weekend. And you know, let me have a little bit of fun and run around, and chitchat and get to meet all these other other guys that I just, you know, from ingrate good support greats. I was pretty impressed. Because you guys you got to leave a bunch of times, they were holding the down running around spraying things wrapping thing they know down. I it was. It was it was so good to, to just see a lot of people. I mean even Franklin's here working on hits. You guys. Yeah. Found a way found some people that you trust at least hours fits great. Seven o'clock. All right. Okay. Okay. Sounds good. Other invite from the man himself really dinner. Tonight. Your, your new best friend. The food the food. He loved the taco and the sausage. Yes. And so when you guys are, are here, is it almost like surreal, just kind of hang out, everyone like it's real really. I mean I, I still feel like I'm gonna wake up. And this is this didn't happen. Afraid to go to sleep. Oh, so grateful afraid to, to sleep for sure. I'm afraid to go to sleep and wake up and and, and think that this was just Allah dream, but it isn't it was Kersey like last night, I was cooking, you know, ten into my fires, and I looked to my right and then you know, Sam Jones's flipping a hog right behind me. And I look over to the foreign and twenty. Earns hanging out stoking the fires for a little bit. And they was pretty damn crazy. It's a real. I think it's so interesting to see Aaron's almost dancey does flips the shovel hops around. He's, he's very energetic when he's working pits. And not a lot of people get to see that. Yeah. For sure. School to watch him cook and meet Andy. And, and, and that, that is funny. He's a character. Yeah. It's a taste of Italy and barbecue. It's yeah. And he just one brisket king. Brusca king amazing juicy lucys Barbie. But, you know, I think I think there's, I think everyone's got so much like I just feel like we're beginning the wave of barbecue. Like, we're I think, to see. Yeah. This event kicked it up. I think hopefully it kicked it up for us here in L A, and brought some more like awareness as to the different types of styles of barbecue, and the community and the love and support. And, and hopefully. By hopefully I did. It was a very good day last couple of days. Fun to be out here with all these legends cooking some delicious bites man. Yeah. Thank you for all your, how Brown. Thank you for everything. Yeah, there's a sign poster that some people are getting. That's pretty bad ass. Got all the top masters. Those in there. Yeah. Hen like walks tables, like packet ago. Do you feel like is there is there one thing that you kind of connect to, to this, or is it just a every day thing to just be out there talking to people? I mean you guys are doing so many, you got smorgasbord going on got other events and other plans. Is it can you point to kind of one place where it all just took off? Or is it just a nice climb? The hallway is yes. Just been a nice climb. Like we've been fortunate to have a certain media outlets come out and check us out and. Yeah. Really like our food and continue to support us. You know, even more than after the first visit, and, you know, and then just when we think it's kind of we have like we've met a lot of people that someone else beaches out, and it just like the, you know, the momentum just keeps on moving along. So we're really grateful for that. And hopefully it continues into our until we get to some bricks. Yeah. Is that feel like that's closer you starting to shop? I mean it's, it's, it's not that easy. You know on your to do it on our own. Maybe we can get investors into happen faster. But, you know, we're trying to do it on our own self-funded. And you know if we can do that great. And if the right opportunity comes around to, you never know, we might have you scoped a place that you could get away with your actual smokers. Or I mean, there's rules in place. There's a there's a process. I mean, I'm sure if we, you know, work with the city work with the health department, we can probably get something done. But, you know, we're we're exploring all options, you know, hopefully, we can use the offsets, if not maybe we'll do Jane are and, and then try to get the offsets approved along the way you know, we can't just let the off the, you know, the traditional offset smokers limit us, even though as much as we want to just use those, you know we. You know, we have to adjust for LA then I guess we have to address, but I mean, even in Texas some of the bigger cities it's, it's, it's. Yeah. So maybe we do it in the outer areas of LA. Maybe we can get it done. Just don't move into the basement of an office building. Yeah. Yeah. It was crazy the first time I walked in there. I thought it was in the wrong place. Then Aaron features get rolling up the. Oh, it's downstairs. Cool. Yeah. So are you guys seeing any newer different? You know, there's been kind of this wave of barbecue. Or you see still more people popping up or is it kind of leveled off, where it's at? Right now. It's kind of level. I mean, there's always someone new, we're fortunate and happy to like make new friends and like heritage virus humid, Danny, so he kind of was kind of one of the newer guys in Orange County and he's doing good things out there. And I just, you know, I know he's going to get more exposure. And I can't wait to see what opportunities opened up for him because he's got his own little corner does. Yeah, yeah. He's hugging it up out there. Well, and they have this whole kind of fancy burry thing. Yeah. It's kind of a cool mix, and it's something he loves to. Yeah, exactly. It's kinda like magical. It's almost like you guys just like, fell asleep night, and you were like, please just make all the cool people with. Valet. Look up in heaven. Uh-huh. It's so beautiful. Did you what was your most fun thing to watch? Like I know you hung out with, with Berta bunch. Alright hog or the whole hog just like watching like Aaron Pat and, you know, Sam they've done these events lot together. And so, I guess Pat Martin has some with prostate problem because he literally went over to that tractor over there and said, look, I'm gonna piss over that wall. And he literally took probably went like twelve feet in the air. Yeah, it was pretty pretty full, Pat. Yeah. Exactly. The legends continue. Aaron was doing his thing again. And you had kind of birds you're kind of, at the top of this little, sloping hill. That's all you guys got to kind of watch everyone cook, and you're like, hey, what's he doing over there over there? But we personally you know, we are. Are there and we can see everything? What do you think about everyone who's been saying, you know, like? LA people are kind of saying, like, why didn't you fight over the space? What's the problem? And like there isn't a problem like everyone just shared the space. It it's like the LA people thought that there was like a competition or some chef thing you know what I mean. Well, they were. I basically they're saying, like, how did you guys decide who gets what spot you didn't fight over? There's no. Well, it's funny because they asked and everyone laughed at them like what are you talking about? We were just sharing the space. The LA times wanted the pits position to certain way and it with the limits, basing these huge brick pits just almost impossible. So just like let's just wind him up and put the two barrels on the outside and put the brick bits right in the center and worked worked up. Well, any messages out there to those cooking right now? Backyard people smoking, don't give up half fun. And just whether it's offset a pallet grill, whatever you wanna use gas assist. Doesn't matter. That's not just have fun. Do what you do. And you know you make good barbecue on anything. As long as long as you put love into it like. The product will show at the end. Yeah. Knowledge. Yeah. Very interest. Thank you so much. Hey, you're coming. And some Chinese food today. Peel. The comment. No, the eight now. I got job Nago bad deputy. Buckle Ray amid tacked on with the. On Texas on the land of the data. No.

Los Angeles Aaron Franklin Texas LA times Aaron Sam Jones California Danny Pat Martin Orange County phillippe LA moose Kraft Andrew North Carolina Austin Elliott Brett city hall Adam Perry Lang