1 Episode results for "Cherry Brook Technology High School"
#EPICFAIL? Science at school
"This is an ABC podcast. Okay. You've heard them. You might have saved them. I'm thinking of comments like maths. It's too hard. I'm just not a maths person. I'm never going to use it. So why do I have to learn it or my kid loves science? She just heights the classes at school. They just damn boring, Houston, we have problems. Hey. Tesha Mitchell joining you this week for another science friction live from the floor of the Melbourne museum. So we're told that learning maths and science matters a whole heap for the careers of the future and not just for those who go on and become scientists or mathematicians all sorts of jobs. I mean, Netflix even employs mathematical minds as days, it's part of the history of knowledge. It's pot of mankind's like appreciation for the wealth. But it's also very part of the inquiry process pot of what really drives us to be this way. What really drives us to live in the well this way, and I think that's just really cool. You don't have to go on to become a Nobel laureate or a racer or a science teacher. But you do need to have in the win the world around you so studying science and Mets not only raises your awareness of the world around you. But also gets you to think in an open way, you use your critical thinking skills easier problem solving skills, and it takes a lot of hard work as well. I think maybe a bit of the work ethic aspect in combination with the creativity. I'm expected to exhibit Mamie just realize that science is something that is not only beautiful that is not only useful. But it's also something that is fundamentally a pot of us. And yet so many kids more and more than a running a mile from science and math subjects at school. Something's really going astray. What exactly and can we stem the tide? The if Betty Chung speaking there, who's finishing you twelve at the Methodist ladies college, she's founder of the Victorian student science scored which links up Hough school students around science events. You also heard from Sola banish alone time science teacher, president of the science teaches association, Victoria, and director of quantum Victoria, which develop a whole lot of science programs for school students imitators across Victoria. Also on the show is Eddie. Woo. Who's causing a big stir? We've he's Chubu channel. He was a top ten finalist in last year's global teacher prize, and is author of a new book wonderful world of maths. He's hit Mets teacher at cherry brook technology high school in Weston CBI. Paid a coke kill has taught in schools from rural Maryvale to Frank Ston to Brunei he's founding principle of the John Monash science school Victoria's first specialist science high school and was principal of the year in the state in two thousand sixteen. When you started out you loved history and English at school, not maths. Thank mats. He didn't feel about good Abed was definitely humanities buff. And I still I still love stories and characters and and the tension when you try to work out what's happening in a mystery. But when I looked at mass, it was sort of characterize myself this way, all those sills adults that I now race through as I could see them as a student memorize them for just enough time to get through that damn put a number in get a number out cross my fingers, really hot. And the monks were good enough that I could say, yeah, I can do but do not have much of a fundamental grasp of why are we learning calculus? I can draw an in Jerusalem, really neatly. But I don't really know what the point of it is. And for me. There was a very rich lack of appreciation of what was crafted. Why did fractions lead to algebra which led to treat an almond tree which led to? There was actually a story on that. I was told us at all. I mean, I say that a lot I'm now wondering if I was told and I just didn't listen lesson. Just like everyone else. But for me that watershed moment was to be able to get to university with the full intent to become an English and history and to say to find out actually that there was this critical shortage of mathematics and science. Teachers particularly physics, and this is what it was like fifteen years ago. It's still true today. And I had a professor push me and say, this is this is where there's need would you consider going this direction rather than that? And so that was kind of what sent me done this rabbit hole. Pay to-. What is this conversation matter for you? And how would you respond to the third annual who says amid gonna use these why do I need to learn about maths what do logo rhythms have to do with anything? I'm going to need him alive. Familiar? It's always bane. Having a look at those cakes. Concepts as part of a whole, it's it's the history of human thought. Really? That's what mathematics is all about. And the beauty of patents and things that are in night show that we all the time now think Matson salons have I pretty roughly and reputation of being too hard to hard to abstract, but mainly to hot, and I'm not sure whether moms and dads would agree. But I think if we found it hard at school, we communicate that kids expected to be hard. Whereas if we approached the whole thing more, positively Metson is genuinely interesting always really fortunate at school. I had some fantastically passionate teaches own member. In my second school. I had the principal are honestly teaching me in year eleven and twelve and he's one of the best educators that I was ever exposed to. And I can remember working through problems in what was in specialist. Mets was applaud Mets back then. And we think there was a problem. Three or four of us would be trying to pull the pot and figure it out. And we think the fellow will never know how to do this. We'd ask you the next I in class and slowly. But surely at it would come on the blackboard, and we'd all look at each other and think he's genius. But he headed way of thinking that he was able to communicate with us and get us to appreciate that problems are based solving teams that also he was responding to your interest. He was responding to you as individuals, and he was very encouraging. And if we got things wrong or we didn't understand that was fine. As long as we learned from the mistakes, we were making mis understandings that we had. So I think the best teachers really do nurture curiosity elect kids to experiment, a lack his to file a lack kids to have opinions. And then try to put it together. Explain they will there's nothing in the world. Down very little in the world that you can really appreciate that. And understanding of science and the sort of problems that kids everywhere looking at NAS cking big questions around what is happening to the climate. Now, if you wanted to stand that in any depth, you don't need to be geography, you need to be a someone who's got an excellent command of mathematics and physics and chemistry to understand exactly what's happening to our climate. So I'd like to think that there is a place to spot the battles that we've all had with Betson science. And maybe we enjoy it. A textbook driven curriculum. The why learning drilling curriculums? Yes. Betty is not head ferociously people like any and the other fantastic teachers that are in every school day to show a different way. H and every one of us could throw that textbook away familiar. It's always been a repository for practice examples of never read through when example to show kids, head of workout something in my life. Any use aim to thrown away takes books. Well, I'm gonna talk about that in a second. But before I wanted to come back to your original question about the thirteen year old complain about logarithms, and I think paid us struck on something really important. This is my attempt seventy teaching and week at that question a lot. It's sort of the classic question. And what I realized is after more than ten years of come yet with what I feel very ticket answers to that question. What I've realized is that most students are not asking that question as a question. It was the kind of when the mom was around. She used to say things to me like sometimes I use stupid, you out of your mind. And that was clearly not a question that was a statement. So the way I've sort of Ford about it is that most not asking about logarithms and winning and use it. They not asking it because they're concerned about their future. They're offering because they complaining about their present. Because maybe don't have the kind of experience. They caution the paid was talking about where teacher walked away those accessible to them. And I think it's that experience of the subject even more than the importance of seeing the necessary application of it, which is true. And which is valid but comes later, I think once you actually have an experience of enjoying subject. It's all about problem solving. And having a set of tools supposed. What takes book do is teach you how to use the tools what I don't do. Very well, and what could do is to teach you how to use the raw tools to solve this particular problem. Maybe I think he wanted to pick up on something. I think it's all well and good that teaches have as really awesome, ideas of how to teach how to capture students in these ideas. But right now the system is set up no way, the nature of Cessna. That's it just simply doesn't allow for that. I don't think the way of assessing students in maths and science currently actually in card just teaches to spend time on the concept to engage students in to penalize education. So that each student is involved in the process of discovery and lanning Barat, we have these massive books of syllabuses which have lists and lists of ideas on the standing skills, even in the apply that you need to have on your final exam and the teachers just have to get on. Through that curriculum because as so little time this little time for teachers she actually have time to breathe and be creative. Again. I think I see that with a lot of teachers that had fantastic teaches in year seven three ten and once we hit the exam grind. It was very obvious transition from teaching full lining to teaching for exams teaching for the taste Soula Bennett, you probably talking to educate his all the time who facing these don't have the time to be creative in the classroom, and you'll role about helping them be creative in the classroom. Everyone's obsessing about project as learnings don't just learn a concept, but embedded in a really interesting kind of socially relevant project. What does that mean? What does it look like, for example, the activity that we we got the teachers to work through that came to our workshop was to build a robotic arm that was able to pick up a ping pong? Bowl and drop it into a Cup. Now, they could use whatever they wanted. We had electronic things we had cardboard we had high as we had balloons, and they then worked in a team that collaborated. We wanted them to make mistakes paid was saying it's really really important that we build resilience. And you learn through productive failure. It was amazing. You should have sane them. They I would laughing and this is hard with the explicit teaching. We not got back to school. This is what I'm gonna do with my students, the second teachers said that they would be engaging with the Mets teaches as well as the English as well as the humanities teaches and looking at coming up with a real world problem, maybe looking at homelessness is there a way in which we could look at personal hygiene, supporting them, all blankets nanna materials. Things like that promise schoolteachers, they tend to teach in these. Why normally I think you're listening to science fiction live coming to you from the Melba museum, and we are talking about well science education, what we're getting rot, and what we're getting very wrong with Betty Chung e twelve student Eddie, Lou mathematics, teacher extraordinaire, Fatako hill. Principle of the John Monash site school and Sola Bennett who is the head of quantum Victoria, pay. You have an unusual cohort of kids at John Monash science school. They're very old Cody very normal. But motivator motivated around science maths Halley you approaching their education in a way that's relevant to all schools in what like all schools pick up on some of the techniques that you'll playing with. Well, when we started Joe Monash, the fanning stuff Feis this really interesting question, we've got two hundred young people at a passionate about science, and if science education looks the same at ask Joe monitors does everywhere else we time, and hey, we are on a university campus and Mona Cina voters university. This par- Ashida university design exactly a think what we've learned is that when you get a a secondary school working together with the university and either modern hot so round you can you can wave magic we've created several new subjects vice around some of the expertise and research, ingenuity at Monash. So we take subjects at school such materials. Engineering bioinformatics pharmaceutical science physics and in those subjects the students spend a bit of time doing an individual project so investigation of their choosing. So you won't find any of that in the Victorian curriculum. Normally we might that available to all schools through the emerging sciences, Victoria program and currently two hundred kids from across the state lots of them in country schools, which is fantastic learning in real time of outtakes through a studio. So it's an opportunity. Mike the curriculum. That is unique at John Menashe. Available. The young Ron across the state because that's really the mission of school. It's not just to churn at heart performing kids. Now, does that mean that you have to take risks often Tate as they hamstrung by curriculum? And I'm just gonna take that curriculum. And there's no room for anything else. And hero. I am. I'm lords and masters listening. You want fund any of the curriculum content in any of those subjects on the victory. You want what you will do is on the skills and dispositions at attributes that students develop as a consequence of engaging with that material. And that's so important to us. The other thing that's critical is that real science is not in silos, biology chemistry and physics real science. He's an integration mentioned before about climate science. That is an integrated study of physics chemistry and mathematics and the social sciences. Exactly offcially this. Very important and that town real saw operates now. So the has these out official construct Iran physics chemistry and biology. What we've tried to do at Joe monitors break that down. So that you study subjects that have components of chemistry physics biology in the same subject and mathematics to give kids a Thais of way, contemporary Sondhi's. Now, I think you wanted to add something and something observe about. You is that you've gone outside of the classroom seeking out opportunities to sample the real world doing a whole incredible Ryan of experience positions inside tickets to a Mets, that's amazingly divided of you. But it's brought you another perspective on at all. I think something that is a problem with school is that kids are capable than will out parents and teachers gives credit for like when I stepped into the floor in Scituate in yet experience. I was way out of my death were certain meetings going on around that. I just had no idea how they wacked why they were using these techniques. But something that always brought me back and kept me interested was the fact that hey, I have lent. A little bit of this. I lent out DNA at school. I lent. About ching sequencing. And he I am looking at this race such petty the ENA into gels, which the NTC Quincy's mice t save they have a mutation that causes epilepsy or not. And it was that moment that I realized that while this is something I can buy two. This is something I can potentially Chaves. I think it's wonderful that we had all these things that teachers can provide. But also we have to think about what we can utilize from industry from tasha Reed sector as well. Any? We would was that made. You think I'm going to take a different approach to these the two main things I think that would different when number one I didn't realize the beginning. But now have to. Reaching this long. I realize it's kind of a super Powell to be able to have struggled through something. And therefore when you come to teach someone that same concept, you get that look in their eyes when they kind of when they when they it doesn't make sense the minute click, and I can I get into fights with them. That's actually a really powerful thing. I had many teaches wonder if anyone else in the room was like this when I say Sarai don't get it miss. I'm just a bit confused. Their response to me often was. But why contra see it? It's obvious to me. And they would often give me exactly the same nation that give me five minutes prior. But slow and loud, and I'm not a foreign tourist I was born in Sydney, helping and I realized now if you are really gifted in mathematics science, maybe so have you experienced this, you can't unsee the way that you've seen something. It's actually quite hard to inhabit that difficulty to like, what was it like to comprehend something? So number one. I've realized that struggle gives me that that ability and number two the cause I love English history and drama. I mean, I kind of feel like I want every single one of my lessons to say the very simplest rule of storytelling. Which is that every story has three acts. There's a setup you establish who's there? What's the background? Then you provide attention, and you get people to care about the characters. That's right. You get people invested. And then that tension says wait, wait a second. There's something that's perplex. Doing something that I want to know how we gonna fix this problem. And then in the third act, you pay it off, there's a resolution isn't there's an emotional catharsis of that. This is why it all makes sense. And unfortunately, in mathematics, we often do things in exactly the opposite direction opened up to the first page of text book that teaches you something like Pythagoras theorem, for instance. And you know, even for those people who don't mathematics teaches somewhere deep in your repressed memories. The fact that he's credit. Plus, basically, I think we'll see what do we do with that? We put that on the first page of the textbook, and we put a big box around it. And we say we want you to know this. And then we give you hundreds of examples of how to use it. We give you what's supposed to be the resolution and the end that satisfies you like, oh, my gosh is easy. We give you the beginning. Can you imagine sorry is on the way? But it's like thirty forty year old movie. So tough. Can you imagine? If you're watching The Empire Strikes back and the opening crawl is all that text is coming down and. Setting up all the empire in the Bellion. And that kind of the end it's kind of like, by the way, Don Veda, totally leagues dad. Sorry. Can you imagine how differently? You would experience that movie there would be no mission payoff at the end. But that very simple lesson a storytelling, we often ignore in the mathematics. This is much about your confidence. As a teacher. I mean teaches matter we cannot state that enough. I'm so delighted when a sore hand go onto there's a previous teacher in the room. I've is few actually because one of the things I often say to precepts early create teaches is you on the lens through which your students perceive the subject that you take whether that's mathematics science visual arts or anything. If you're going to the classroom, and you have board or confused or vague. Then you've got a pretty good sense of what your students are going to feel and think as they walk out of your classroom. And that's why the teachers so decisive and. Betty, and parents Hillary mentioned this when you've got a great teacher often. That's the catalyst. We ought to say. Oh now, I'm interested. And now, I'll do the work because it is a hard subject. Mathematics sciences. Do have an unfair sort of people stereotype is inaccessible, but they offer still a great challenge to learn. And what needs to motivate us to do that work is someone who can help us walk in a person way. This is why I should care about me. And can I also make sure we mentioned that teachers are some of the most harried and distracted and rushed people on the planet. And your job is never done small manufacturer. Put the wheels on your the windows on your put the refund not necessarily in that order, your push it out the factory doll, and then job is finished. But the lesson can always be shopper the assessment toss can always be more thoughtfully Croft. You can always been one to one time with students and teachers are very difficult position. They definitely need that support. And at some point you need to go home and actually have a live. Let's rate chat to you. And we've got writhing. With Lila, and Ivy and puppy hand up and we'd love to he questions. Comments thoughts. We have a question. Thank you. Great need that we have science and mass teachers at the moment, sometimes schools are forced to like tight teachers who just aren't have this passion potatoing. And do you have any suggestions for school students when you have one of those teachers that don't really kit enough? What would you suggest to do? So that the next year level of students having to try and take each other and themselves you'll. What you're saying is so destroying. And so reliable what grind you in your nine? You know, and he non and so you are trying to sort of save the next generation from the very poor experiences that you'll have a tape Isaac late. I think from a really practical sampling something that you can do is to cut lies on the recently have Ranji. So your friends, I think inevitably you can have people who better at one topic and another I think teaching each other is one of the best ways to land. I don't really recommend getting too. I think that sort of defeats the purpose of really learning in a sense. I think the best way to sometimes she read like the first page of the textbook on chapter. That is usually what you find the story. And like, the interesting pots, and then Krugel, whatever you Donna stand. Find each videos like from Mitsubishi chief Khan Academy at an off that trying to challenge yourself to see if he can take it to the next one and the people around you before you go onto exercises because that really reinforces you'll Lenny and in time, you're going to have like those teaches who just aren't gonna really Cal all even feel like they've really investing you'll leading. But that doesn't stop. From being single or landing and doesn't really stop you from China succeed by yourself. I think sometimes when I do find myself in situations where I have teachers I can tell that I probably on that investing. What I will change will have you achieve. That's when I told a step it up actually sort of challenged myself and say, she'll I'm going to overcome these arts to do better than what I have done with a good h Beatty Chung for prime minister. And. Since two reason tape Mike Hutchinson. Ray tickle and Sam engineer Brandon O'Neill talk to me on Twitter at Natasha Mitchell. Love to hear your ideas on this one that wasn't aided vision of a longer of ain't and you can join us at the next science for chin live at the museum on Thursday, November the Fuste no billions. It's the future of six. Lighting ansari. The book data on the science fiction website catching time by.