18 Burst results for "Charlie harding"

"charlie harding" Discussed on Recode Media with Peter Kafka

Recode Media with Peter Kafka

03:52 min | 8 months ago

"charlie harding" Discussed on Recode Media with Peter Kafka

"Boutique which is my favorite album of all time which could not be created today because it's almost entirely created out of samples samples And I was reading your sample chapter last night. It's not a coincidence. That sort of peak for me of Pop music is like nine thousand nine hundred ninety four when you could still take everyone Nelson west of sampling. One as an aside. Should I continue to be bummed out when I find out one of my favorite day. Law Soul songs or BEC songs or tribe called quest songs is actually just someone else's song is sort of looped with a couple of additional samples whether it's three feet high and rising or If you've never heard walk on the wild outside and you hear the tribe called quest version I any version of this right where the where the the the hip hop song in particular is really dependent on one one older song it all should that. Make me sad when I realize that or should I should. Should I be happy. That someone's made inch managed to take the same song and make it popular again. One two three no uh-huh hackles up no how hackles hackles timbre hackles. Yeah Yeah Yeah. You're my heckler will be a quiz later I will be wearing the elbow patches please continue. Sampling is one of the quintessential ways in which contemporary very music is made and it is actually in our book one one of the artists that we interviewed the producers of the group clipping with w digs from Hamilton. They they're hip hop group and they talk about sampling as almost the modern form of notating music. You know if you if you are Beethoven you had to write music on sheet music great and then people had to translate it today. There are so many ways that you want to say something and the only way to say it is to reference the original and put it into a new context so so we talk about paper planes in the way that. Mia contorts the clash in order to take a song the clash had written. That was a Sort of character of one thousand nine hundred eighty s immigration and drummer plays sort of bigoted character. She adverts that and on paper playing she plays the imagined American criminal. Who's going to Bang Bang Bang and take your money and buy sampling that that work is a signifier of all this larger body of material that you could only access through the sample? I think that the way that we have set up sampling copyright law such that There's really no way to comment on another work without that artist. Permission is Probably A has overreached Because you can't have brilliant albums like Paul's Paul's Boutique that you mentioned which at the time was actually one of miles de was his favorite record for complete innovation in the way that music was being created. What to know that you would charlie just drop in Giovanni uh-huh yeah yeah no sampling is I? They're so we could go so far to you guys. You guys blew my mind last night as chapter and listening to paper planes in the clash. We're not the part where you explain that most samples now are actually recorded. The interpolations were not maybe not but a lot are. Yeah in the reason. Why for that is that When new sample a song you need to get to different clearances you need to get a license for both the song itself but also for the recorded performance and oftentimes are actually hard to track down down especially if it's an old funk sample of a song that was only printed five hundred copies of and you can't find the person that had the original you actually have to recreate it last question and this is a big softball for you guys? 'cause chapter why Beethoven connected to sampling. Beethoven is connected to sampling Because we were talking about paper planes so paper planes in the chorus there. Are these gunshots rather than lyrics. There's gunshots going off in cash registers and Beethoven.

Beethoven Mia contorts Nelson Paul's Boutique Hamilton Giovanni Paul
"charlie harding" Discussed on Recode Media with Peter Kafka

Recode Media with Peter Kafka

10:48 min | 8 months ago

"charlie harding" Discussed on Recode Media with Peter Kafka

"It's so cold wow it's feeding into like an oblivion field of crystalline snow. Well now it does Damn Charlie way to paint a picture for me Yeah no now. I'm getting goosebumps. It's like it's I'm I WANNA bundle up. That's quite a riverdale there yes yeah Cool cool okay. What's left form? Yeah the underlying the sort of tectonic substructure of this song. This one is pretty pretty standard. You know we talked earlier about like how prominent verse Chorus Form Is. This is a great example of that it goes verse Pre Chorus Chorus. Frankly frankly it's exactly what you would expect. Maybe the one thing that is a little different is the intro to this song. Like the INTRO is unexpected. Frankly just 'cause it's so vast. It's like thirty seconds long. Yeah like we discussed elsewhere how streaming teaming has tended to make songs shorter and make you get into them a lot faster this kind of bucks that trend it really takes its time getting into it like sets the tone in a little bit which I think is actually somewhat Peter's point about just like trends are always changing one of the trends of of really two thousand eighteen through twenty. Nine hundred has been shorter songs because you only get paid per listen per song and so sort of makes economic sense to write a whole bunch of short songs if people were GONNA listen for ten minutes. Try to get ten songs rather than two songs and And postponing MILONA somebody who really takes these rules seriously he a lot of songs are super tight and short he puts chorus upfront. So that you catch things right away but here I think he's sort of showing knowing that actually sometimes if you buck those roles you might stand up more and you get a number one hit and you think he's thinking that through a steamer is producer thinking that through like I'm traditionally go this way. Traditionally most songs now are shorter. I'M GONNA intentionally go the other way you know. It's always hard to know without talking directly to the artists. So many of the greatest Songs in Pop music. Music are written really sort of at the subconscious level in fifteen minutes. But there's this great quote in in our book where we were talking about SIA and and she's being criticized size you know saying hey how. How can I take your music seriously? You're writing the song of fifteen minutes. And she says well. It took me twenty years to write a song. Fifteen minutes right in the same way when you know. You've you've got a last-minute someone says hey can you interviews person right now Peter you can go off and do that because you've done so many interviews and you just have it already there and I'm the CEO of Podcasting uh-huh that is high praise and because we love And so oftentimes there are producers and other people behind the scenes who are sort like throwing these more theoretical of business logic into the song to make sure that it's GonNa be optimally performing but it's often a mix of The AH intentional and as a conscious So what do we do with all this You guys do this for a living. Right is literally your jobs to break down these songs And obviously we've got a popular podcast and there's people who want to join you in that and I'm really interested in always just sort of understanding the mechanics of how thing came to be so there's just this it's my pleasure leisure zone if you're someone who just likes music you're intellectually curious I guess the same question on having more sports a diagram a poem. What if we just enjoy music? What are we meant to do with this knowledge bomb? You've dropped on us. Yeah Okay Great. That's such a good question Peter Because let's put a big ass good at this stuff. Yeah if anyone listened to our podcast and came away with the feeling that they were no longer allowed to enjoy music. That would be horrible like we don't that is not our goal it all we we never. We don't WanNa take away that visceral like just high of listening to a song and just experiencing it emotionally and like we never want to take the way but I guess this is why we call the book. How Popular Music Works and why it matters because there is a point to this too and and that's because music is not just private pleasure? It's a it's part of public. Discourse is part of the way we understand. Our identities are communities. It's part of the way we join together. And it's part out of those sometimes the way we drive each other apart so I think understanding how music works on us and again like Charlie said the beginning not just from the perspective of lyrics but also from the perspective of its musical qualities is really important in as much as pop. Music plays the central role in our lives. It's worth understanding unclearly what we're listening to Before we debate the role it has. It's also one of the most sort of personal responsibility that I see about always keeping an open ear and finding ways to listen to things that I might not otherwise be interested in music especially popular. Music has this sort of strange place in in conversation in which you can still say. I like this music but that music is bad but you know it would be completely inappropriate to be like. I like all this food but that food is bad. That's an an insult to a whole culture and I know not to say that to Mexican food sucks right. You might have said that ten years ago but now you know even if you believe so you don't even if you don't like Mexican food you wouldn't say that out loud in in in in In public and likewise with music it's totally okay to have tastes like there are things that I enjoy. There's there's things that I don't enjoy But it's not you enjoying. The other thing is wrong and so I think we actually have. There's still room in the conversation to change around pop music. It's not just about populism awesome and taking pop music seriously it's about understanding having a slightly expanded vocabulary of some of these basic building blocks that can help give us access into the things things that we don't know so if you're like I don't like that thing I just doesn't sound right to me. Sounds bad then if you start to use some of these ideas about its form its tambor. It's harmony it's lyric. Its Melody. It's rhythm it might give you access into that world to better understand. Appreciate it at least see it for what it is even if it isn't the thing that you want to be playing every single day in your class right so if you roll your eyes when you go to the wine store and he said I want a good wine for fifteen bucks and they started talking about tear are You might still know that you like stuff that is more minerals right in. That would help you get wine that you like exactly like like mineral red wine and but yeah I do roll. Oh my is this is great I WanNa talk to you guys for hours and hours. I did have this thing. I keep coming back to over and over here though. Is this idea and it relates to optimism. Rockets is is a monitor. What do we call it? Rock rock ISM. So we'll stipulate the the the idea of Keith Richards Waking up in the middle of the night and writing down the the hook from satisfaction which he claims he did. I think happens less often than you than you thought. And there's always been there have always been collaborative teams names of people making music and you've got things like the Brill building overtime. Lots of people have touched lots of songs that you think written by one person that said it does seem like we are very much in an era where you now have dozens of people collaborating on the song. Sometimes even many more. Because you've got sampling involved. Is it fair to raise an eyebrow at least about that stuff and say I can still enjoy all of this but I I shouldn't be thinking to see is wrong or Taylor's song should be thinking this is a music produced view spy sixty people sometimes literally in a house etc together. John Recruit the the song machine. That was the book I was thinking of. Should we have an asterix towards any of this music as we're thinking about better at least when we're thinking about sort of what. The artist intent is if if the artists one of fifty people who created this thing. I want to start by saying that. There is a productive in unreal tension between the sort of cult of authenticity that pop star has to perform right whatever persona is and and we really absorb the persona and I think that there is sort of cognitive dissonance between that person. Who's telling their personal story through lyric and the reality that actually is a production induction and It's a huge logical leap to realize that of course when someone walks onstage in a stadium and there's lights going off everywhere and it's you know clearly there's hundreds and hundreds of people behind the thing to make it happen and that's true of the music as well so I think it's it's fair to acknowledge that tension but I think the collaborative element of contemporary pop music. Something we really celebrate. Yeah you mentioned John Seabrook. WHO's were huge fans of You could read our book and his book and I think you would be like like reach pop nirvana. He has a metaphor or or a comparison of the pop star. Almost like Like Michelangelo's his workshop you know The Sistine Chapel is paint. We say that was painted by Michelangelo but in reality it was by a whole team whole renaissance workshop in his employ. Maybe that's a better model for thinking about pop music and I'm glad you asked because it does. It is really a maybe a central point of tension as Charlie was saying I remember. I'll get the year wrong but sometime in the last five years. It was a very contentious grammy ceremony when both Beck and and beyond say we're up for album of the year and Beck one which was very controversial for a lot of people who thought beyond say deserved it But the argument that a lot of people offered was that well Beck. You know if you look at the credits of Beck's album. He is the songwriter. He played all the instruments. He's the You know the sole creative genius behind this and thus he deserves it whereas beyond saves working with all these songwriters collaborators producers. It doesn't belong to her and I have to say like whatever you think of either of those artists. That argument sounds pretty. Be Estimate because it doesn't really have anything to do with who made the best album it says more about. What are sort of your priorities and prejudices when it comes to these certain myths of creativity and genius so I would like to get to a place where we can accept the collaborative nature as of pop as not a negative but just A reflection I don't know maybe like I like the way a movie is made. You know there's one director but there's so many people create bringing that thing to life. I'm glad you're talking about back because I was thinking about odelay excreted by the dust. Brothers who've agreed Paul's Boutique which is my favorite album of all time which could not be created today because it's almost entirely created out of samples samples And I was reading your sample chapter last night. It's not a coincidence. That sort of peak for me of Pop music is like nine thousand nine hundred ninety four when you could still take everyone Nelson west of sampling. One.

Beck Peter Michelangelo Charlie John Seabrook Rockets Keith Richards Brill SIA producer director Paul CEO Taylor The Sistine Chapel Nelson
"charlie harding" Discussed on Recode Media with Peter Kafka

Recode Media with Peter Kafka

03:20 min | 8 months ago

"charlie harding" Discussed on Recode Media with Peter Kafka

"Backyard and they they are gonna put all the lessons together for us in one awesome. What's the best way to guard this neat and Shirley you're gonNA explain how all this stuff comes together for us? How about that absolutely in order to bring all these elements together? It's best to take one song and see how they apply and so probably the right thing to do. In the pop tradition would just go to billboard see what's number one and break it down and right now. The top song on the billboard is circles by Post Malone Post Malone also known as Austin Richard Post. He's a Texan raised artists. He sort of bleeds between the boundaries of pop folk and hip hop. He's famous for his feast tattoos and much more importantly his catchy melodies on songs songs like congratulations rockstar and psycho. But for the purpose of this conversation we should listen to circles but before we get there. Yeah he's also much derided right. Yeah is it just. Because he's a white guy doing sort of hip hop slash African American inflected music No something thing else. Is that people who don't like post Malone are upset about. It's not just that it's I think it's focused more on comments. He made in which he was dismissive of hip hop tradition at least feigned a certain ignorance of hip hop tradition which made people feel like he was right another in a long line of of musical appropriators and there may be a lot of validity to that claim but I do think he has may be earned back some goodwill in the intervening years since he made those comments in May have sort of wised up a little bit and come more into his own as a musician might have also lost some people in his He he has. He's kind of into Internet conspiracy theories as well. I might be one of the Cuban people. We're not so sure makes them eat makes political statements as well and how the platform right going to separate the artists from his enjoy. This is about the song here is circles and we go. Oh okay so we got circles inner ear and I think the thing we need to do is apply what we learned in the first half and think about out what is really going on in the song. The surface level. This is another relational discourse. I must be coming into wintertime This is two people running running in circles setting flames fire setting fire to the flame. What's the right now? Are you having a stroke. Sorry well basically what's going on in my brain is running trying to find the word just as these people are trying to figure out what's going on in there and and it's not going well for them but there's a lot more than just the lyric the is queuing us into this. Let's look at some of the musical elements the first one we talked about was rhythm and this is actually pretty simple for them. Check this out. Here's here's the intro. And Peter.

Malone Richard Post Shirley Peter
"charlie harding" Discussed on Recode Media with Peter Kafka

Recode Media with Peter Kafka

06:02 min | 8 months ago

"charlie harding" Discussed on Recode Media with Peter Kafka

"This recode media Peter Kafka. That is me coming to from a very small room at vox media headquarters talking to you on the phone nate. Sloan Charlie harding. The brilliant genius hissed generous good-looking host of switched on pop and now the authors of switched on Pop- Popular Music Works and why it matters. Welcome guys thanks. Peter Peter Great to be here. Yeah where are you guys by the way. We're also in a very small room in Los Angeles so we. We should have done this when we were both in the same coast. We'll figure figured out one day anyway. Nice to chat with you over the phone We're going to a couple of things here. We're GONNA talk about your book. Get Your podcast. But the thing that I'm really excited about is you're gonNA explain how popular if your music works to me and our audiences kind of stuff I love the most. That's right. Do you WanNa just briefly. Explain how the podcast and then the book came to be. Yeah the podcasts came to be It all stemmed from a conversation about carly. Rae Jepsen Aka Saint Jebsen the singer of call me. Maybe that was the song that really started the show. We realized there was so much to unpack of. How the song worked the compositional techniques while it was one of the biggest hits of Twenty twelve and then we thought you know we can share some of these insights with people through a podcast and that grew organically incredibly over five years And as it did did people who kept contacting us and they were like so. Where could I read more about some of the concepts? y'All discuss on the podcast and we thought There's not really we don't really know where to send anyone you know you you could. You could pick up like a textbook For a college class. But that wouldn't be very much fun And then we thought well maybe we need to write it and now here. We are thrilled to have this book that breaks down fundamental concepts of music through twenty great pop songs the last twenty years. It's so genius. I mean obviously in my only criticism is that it needs to be podcast Noticed I guess you already made the podcast redundant and you guys have have day. Jobs Nate you're as musicologist. Which I think it means you have a day job as a professor correct? Exactly right yeah. The University of Southern California. He's wearing very nice. Time Professor Ariel Jacket right now just so you know. Thank thank you Charlie. I hope there are What elbow pads No no ELBA. I do. Have some Some clip on patches. I can just give me one second perfect and surely Oh you write songs for a living. Eddie songwriting production and I also run the whole show awesome so I gotta say I was reading your book yesterday. Got To the part where you guys explained the Origin Story I thought in Twenty four th twenty fourteen right is coming maybe Yeah well the song came out in two thousand twelve. We started the podcast two years later. Okay so you're telling me you're in the back of the car you're partners are driving in the front and you go wait a minute pop. Music is amazing. We didn't realize this and we've been we've been wrong our allies. That can't be the case right. It never occurred prior to that that pop music it was amazing. I mean I think from my perspective. I knew that we were both music. Snobs but maybe nate had been Converted before I had and by snobbery. Aubrey I mean I think we were sort of stuck in either like raucous jazz or classical ists traditions and I think there's some pretty There's a ubiquitous and sort of if you just kinda boring criticism that will pop. Music is just fluff enough. It must not be interesting are worth attention. And when nate broke down. Call me maybe in front of me I was like oh my gosh. There is depth to. What's happening here in the harmony in the melody? The whole composition actually bringing alive. This idea of relational relational ambiguity in a really fun and engaging way and I I realized that it was really my own snobbery that was holding me back from hearing with more open in years and so really the show has been a process of not just learning to hear better but becoming Poli emission in love with pop music. So I'm GonNa be the audience. Avatar for a second. Relational ambiguity is not a term. I've heard before but I have heard of rockets and also popped him before. But I think a lot of folks in the audience may not have I've heard of these terms. And so here's my version of populism is what you guys are doing. Basically we're saying hey pop. Music is real music You should take it seriously. Just because because it isn't recorded by a guy with the guitar who may or may not have written the song himself. Maybe even there was literally a houseful of people who made this song for. You doesn't mean you shouldn't be taking it seriously And Raucous writers is someone traditionally older person who thinks of rock music is is is sort of the quintessential important music and it traditionally is written by a guy or maybe two guys performed in a band recorded on vinyl etc.. And that's quote real music and optimism. I think at one point was considered sort of daring and counter cultural and now I think is pretty much accepted. Sort of way that quote smart and quote what people think about music is that all fair Damn Peter that was a very succinct and accurate summary. I'm Yeah I was rambling on. No you got it all right. So we've got all that we're we don't. We are going to stipulate that pop music is important and complex and we should all understand it better. So we're GONNA get a free lesson. Both Said said all three of US money if you want. But we're GONNA get free less pop music from Charlie and nate. I'm going to interrupt periodic Brennan Ready. Yeah Charles Okay so in order to understand stand and listen critically to pop music. It's important to go beyond just the lyric if you're listening to the lyric you're listening to half the song so we want to do is tell about rhythm melody harmony form Timbre to help you better understand what's going on we're GONNA do this in a flash style way. We're just GONNA start with rhythm rhythm we know is the heart heartbeat of a song and when we listen to what's going on with the rhythm it can tell us so much about what the song means. A great example would be a song like. Hey Yeah from outcast it okay me.

nate Sloan Charlie harding Peter Peter Great vox media Peter Kafka Los Angeles University of Southern Califor US Professor Ariel Jacket professor carly Rae Jepsen Brennan Aubrey Charles Saint Jebsen
"charlie harding" Discussed on Niners Nation

Niners Nation

01:34 min | 1 year ago

"charlie harding" Discussed on Niners Nation

"The Scheme Gi month roles on you WanNa Joe what's next week <hes> and defensive back down to talk about some coverage all right all right. Let's do coverage next week so we'll be back next week and we'll talk about Joe Woods and some coverage wrinkles that we hope we see from the new position coach <hes> so I'll thanks for tuning in thanks for taking off Schema football's almost here and if you haven't watched that strange things could be that now because if you didn't get that or the chips Ahoy scoops away that's right. That's that's where it's coming from. Thanks again for tuning in everyone and as always go niners. Hey It's Charlie harding from switched on pop the podcast about the making being in meaning of popular music and this week we get into K.. Pop is the thing that I just haven't known how to wrap my head around but the music is everywhere and it is now a global phenomenon. It is a part of the U._S.. Pop Pop market is charting on the billboard. It's playing on S._N._l.. And this week we talk about B._T._S.. In Hall Z's boy with Love Talk to some K pop experts and really get to the bottom of how hot we listen to K pop pop music as a genre as a multi media phenomenon. Check.

Joe Woods Charlie harding football
"charlie harding" Discussed on The MMA Beat

The MMA Beat

02:01 min | 1 year ago

"charlie harding" Discussed on The MMA Beat

"On a date with the boylan ducey do it yeah he'll he'll he'll yeah he he might go he likes the surfer the oxy out that silver surfer today on the train well alex where together like if i need i tell you what a neat unease gonna fucking never been this far side of eating six points again islam berg ns that's spoken like it's called c you technically eat soup so yeah at the game's not drinking and had a great state after a chronic weekend in mixed martial arts listen we gotta go gotta go sir i am luby's loads ed keep your ears on those and we will keep are melts on your gear jesus soviet let let kids so hey it's charlie harding switched on pop v podcast about the making and meeting of popular music and this week we get into k pop is the things that i just haven't known how to wrap my head around but the music is everywhere and it is now a global phenomenon is a part of the usa pop market is turning on the billboard it's playing on snl in this week we talk about bts in the fall z's boy would love to talk to some k pop experts and really get to the bottom how are we listening to k pop music other genre nfc multimedia phenomenal check it out on switched on pop.

boylan ducey luby alex charlie harding usa
"charlie harding" Discussed on The Vergecast

The Vergecast

02:08 min | 1 year ago

"charlie harding" Discussed on The Vergecast

"Give me some bold prediction about what's coming next from what you're seeing happening, now, who I think we're going to hear a sub two minute song on time. And in the next, yeah, the next couple years, have we not already? I mean, there was one in the past, but it was essentially a viral YouTube video that made it onto the billboard charts. So I don't know if they I'm talking like a fully fledge banger. Yeah. That is a minute and thirty seconds. I've been reporting the story about beat stars which is the platform the little gnaws ex. Track came out of and since there are more points of access into music stars being one of them able to sort of observe, maybe some John r- trends, which are becoming popular, but maybe haven't quite made it on the billboard. And one of the things that I'm hearing a ton of is low. Fi old school hip hop. They were gonna hear return to that sort of sound it's going to be updated. But it's a lot of people intentionally degrading the sound quality of their recording to sound wobbly on tape little drunk. It's a really fun sound. And I think we're gonna hear more of that coming up in the next year. Anybody wants to listen more Charlie switched on pop, which Masumi when all the streaming services you should listen to it. You should listen to it for long. Thirty seconds. Especially not with. Anything else anybody should know before we take off, we come out every week on Tuesday, and we're always looking for ideas. So, you know, reach out to us anything we're missing we will cover. That's wished on pop everywhere. You can find anybody social media check out, so Sean pop. Thank you, Charlie innate. That's for the next week. All right. Thanks, Charlie innate. Check out their show. Fox wish pop is. It is really good. It's just fun. Listen, also check out push button. It's back on a roll out to third episode season this week. It's about anonymous accounts. Ashley Kaitlyn talk to anonymous woman who has an anonymous account on Instagram dedicated to swishing bread on her face. That's just what the copy says I didn't. That's true. I think actually did do that. That's, that's crazy..

Charlie YouTube Sean pop Ashley Kaitlyn Masumi John Fox Thirty seconds thirty seconds two minute
"charlie harding" Discussed on The Vergecast

The Vergecast

03:19 min | 1 year ago

"charlie harding" Discussed on The Vergecast

"Competition for good music making again, to the good side of this, though, is that it's more competitive, which means I think, more and more for me. Anyways artistry matters more than can you just do the craft what you have to say is privileged when anybody can make anything distributed anywhere? And of course, when I say anybody, you know, it does cost a couple thousand dollars to get that equipment, so there are there still are various century, but you don't allow you no longer need a multi dollar studio. So you can make really high quality music, you know, the cost of production is falling. I mean yes, if you dollars a lot, but when I wanted to start a band in high school that was the cost like you know, to retard Samantha drum kit, a microphone and then beg someone to show up like, right? Like the. That that costs is still high, but it's not it's not so high that it's insurmountable for enormous number of people also it also just briefly. It's like it, basically you need a laptop. So if you already have a laptop year, like you're, you're halfway there, but is it changing things are sounding like that to me is, you know, the endless recording industry complaint, you know, there's always some Grizzle engineer who's like records used to be really quiet man. They used to have dynamics, and now everything is super loud, is anything beyond that changing. Or, you know, we were talking about L S before, obviously to master to an LP you had physical constraints of how big the groove in the record could be. Those are seemingly gone is technology changing the sound is you guys are tracking the charts is the sound of music changing. That's just had the sound of music. Let me say some anything else. Are those? But as you guys are tracking the charts like are is the actual sound changing. Yeah, absolutely. As a story, and I'll, I'll just say, like that's always been the case. So let's be clear when we're talking about sound, I think, for Charlie, and I the biggest change we can see in terms of the, the sound of music as it's been affected by streaming is in the realm of structure and form. And the way that songs lay themselves out in terms of this verse chorus, etc. Certainly the, the, the tambor's that is, like, the, the tones that you hear in a sound are changing and the lyrical content of a song are changing, but those are things that always changed through history as we invent new instruments, and new new ways of thinking about the world. So in some ways, that's changing, but it's business as usual. What's really, I mean, from our sort of music theory theoretical perspective. And this is more subtle, too. But with the fact that the verb. Chorus form, which is like been the dominant force in popular music for half a century, now, it's finally starting to show signs of change. That's like super interesting. And that's maybe for us, one of the biggest but again, maybe harder to hear influences of this new streaming economy, you're saying where tambor's tones like guitar become popular. Whatever aid away, kick drums, become popular at these things kind of move quickly, whereas song structure those trends are much longer lasting last decades. And we're seeing a de-stabilizing of, of that trend which is different than just an instrumental trend exactly. I guess what I'm getting at is it, you just have more headroom on digital track. Then something that you're mastering to a cassette. If you're targeting title, you're.

tambor Grizzle engineer Charlie thousand dollars
"charlie harding" Discussed on The Vergecast

The Vergecast

03:38 min | 1 year ago

"charlie harding" Discussed on The Vergecast

"I mean, it's currently number one that is that reality is so new, and I think we will see artists and labels trying to negotiate that and yeah, maybe one of the ways in which you do is to shorten your songs, but I don't know. I can't I don't know if we can say that definitively. It's almost two new to make judgment but I think we can definitely say is that, while the curatorial power of the streaming platforms is strong. There are more access points to be heard, and as new platforms emerge as, as popular and culture as, as Nate has said this music is so much more interactive and multimedia than ever before that when a tick tock song is doing well. Actually, does the water social media platforms. Now, actually do affect the charts. And so there is a relationship to between social media and, and what songs are being heard is you guys are out there. You know, your songwriters? You talk to other songwriters. I'm always curious how much the algorithm and the sort of constraints of distribution affect the creative process. So by way of, example, we make a lot of YouTube videos. We know a lot of YouTubers ever youtuber. We'll, we'll talk about the algorithm. Is though it is an oracle that must be like to. Right. And like if you wanna get youtuber going, you know, just ask her about, like, what a thumbnail should look like in, like, that's, that's a full day of conversation. Do you think that's happening and sort of the world of commercial music where there are these pressures to make the shorter for streaming? Or adopt the format that's gonna work on pop radio. Or is it a more? I don't know like diffused sort of force on the. Tire market for songs, but we don't want to speak for all of music, right? I think to Nate's point. There are plenty of artists that are thinking about new structures new forms when we're talking about top forty song writing in a sort of industry behind it. I've been hearing from our sources. This is absolutely a conversation, which is happening in the rim. So typically, right. Yeah. Songwriting sessions often in again, this, we're talking top forty pop music. You're going to have a potentially five ten songwriters and producers all together in a room. Sometimes if you're but frequently people are asking now how do we make our song shorter? What do we cut and we were observing this as well? Like, just as a great example, any Blondeau is an incredibly successful songwriter, who has launched into his own career now as, as a front person his long that he with Khalid. And alsi at Halsey eastside. Yes. Thank you, eight they actually just kind of drop the final chorus and usually, you know, songs going to have first chorus verse. Chorus maybe a bridge and then two courses at the end at the end of the saw on the kind of just sort of fade the chorus out into a now tro, and it, it seems as though one of the reasons why you might want to do that is to chop off thirty seconds at the end of the song. So not only are hearing this happening from our sources happening in song rooms, but we're actually seeing happening on the charts as well. I love a good bridge. Somebody should've told to- swift to cut that bridge from me. Oh my gosh. We agreed the bridge of me is, perhaps, one of the worst most saccharin bridges ever written. You're going to the swift east coming after you watch out for the audience before we started according, I said, when I briefly worked at vox dot com as a managing editor, I wrote a piece, this is kind of gets into the next thing I want to talk about which is just sort of how artists are approaching the services and how they're thinking that distribution but I wrote a piece for vox dot com in like twenty fourteen..

Nate YouTube Halsey eastside managing editor Blondeau Khalid thirty seconds
"charlie harding" Discussed on The Vergecast

The Vergecast

03:11 min | 1 year ago

"charlie harding" Discussed on The Vergecast

"Songs are going to be exactly thirty five seconds because there's all sorts of forms and conventions, that we like to hear the thing is you need to grab someone in and you need to make sure they wasn't to the entire. Thing, and then get out and into the next song in the most successful way that you possibly, can it and it's funny because bohemian, rhapsody movie just came out it hit streaming. Right. Bohemian rhapsody, the single reappears on the charts. Right. Like, the and you see the Elton John DOE is gonna come out about a bunch of Elton John songs. They're going to hit the charts again. Do you see new music that has sort of operatic scope still appearing and still finding success in his or is it is this, a consistent trend across, Sean? It's a great question, you know, I think the answer is that we're going to see more of everything, frankly, when, in terms of the top forty maybe we'll see this, this sh- you know, the great shortening call or something. But in terms of, you know, other John reserve music and other artists, the fact is, there's more limitless possibility in there ever has been before his Charlie pointed out earlier, there's less technological limitations than we've ever had. You're not bound by the forty minute limit of a vinyl record, if you want, you could create a longer opera than anything, you know. Who or the Queen ever recorded, you can have a twenty four hour opera. If you have enough, you know megabytes to, to do it. So in a way, more generally, I think we have no idea what's coming down the pike in terms of musical creativity on the top forty pop charts due to streaming. We can identify very specific trends. Yeah. I would point out, when, when you think about operatic things, I think the most operatic piece, we've had maybe more informed than in style would be Travis Scott sicko mode, which was the biggest song of last summer, and like bohemian rhapsody has sort of three, I think that's has three distinct entirely sort of different parts than all sort of blend together and become this larger opus of peace and the sickle mode comes in it over five minutes, it was performed at the Super Bowl, you know, some of the most successful songs. And so what you would say, well, this is countering that trend? However, when it's played on the radio, they make a radio edit. Around three minutes and thirty seconds tried. You still have to conform to a lot of these standards in order to get on the right. Playlist, get, you know, be heard on radio and so on. So I think we just keep seeing is tick tock is driving hits. And there's an article in Bloomberg couple of days ago that the music labels want to renegotiate their deals with tuck, because they, they see it is that driving some of these changes that you just wanna make a loop that's going to work in one of these extremely short tectonic videos. It's so hard to say if tick tock is responding to changes in the music industry or the museum. Responding to changes in tick tok, I, I don't know if I can answer that. But certainly what this, the fact that songs you know, take again little nausea X old town road. That is a song that became viral on tick tock and then leaped onto the billboard charts. I mean, it's currently number one that is that reality is so new, and I think we will see artists and labels trying to negotiate.

Elton John DOE Elton John John Bloomberg Travis Scott Sean Charlie thirty five seconds twenty four hour thirty seconds three minutes five minutes forty minute
"charlie harding" Discussed on The Vergecast

The Vergecast

03:37 min | 1 year ago

"charlie harding" Discussed on The Vergecast

"Which is a really long double album, coming in almost ninety minutes. He's got a ton of really short songs on there because he gets paid every single song you listened to not whether or not you listen to the whole album. What's the of? So like, if you if you just like a scorpion. I listen to the first three seconds of every track, and I was like, okay. Like that count. Or is there a cough is a very by service? Yes. So not only are songs getting shorter. But the way that artists are introducing their songs is changing because you only get a streaming royalty. If someone listens to thirty seconds of your song. So out is the era of long intros that sort of slowly gets you into the song today. We actually are seeing not only songs getting shorter, but there is a sort of a new song structure that we've observed that we've called the pop overture where basically a song at the very beginning will play almost a hint of the chorus in the first five to ten seconds, so that the hook is in your ear hoping that you'll stick around till about thirty seconds in, when the, the full chorus of Benchley comes in, but yeah, only what you have to listen to thirty seconds of the song to get paid wild. The, you know that tracks is movie trailers now have many trailers before the trailer. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. This is the sort of audio analogue of that. And it's like we're. I'm to give you the, the quick hit of excitement and then you're gonna you're gonna wait to see it again. I just listening on Taylor shows me, which is I'm just going to say it is horrible. I know you're saying that she plays the chorus like she plays the hook of the chorus, then the song starts, and you very quickly. Get to the course again. Yes, exactly the beginning of the song starts with a sort of pseudo chorus just happens for a moment, but it's goal is the hook in, in that's to keep you there for thirty six. So you're, you're saying songs are getting shorter because on streaming services that artists gets paid. When you hit thirty seconds, and then everything after thirty seconds is kind of like not worth it, and they just want to get you in the next mill there's more there's still an incentive to listen to the whole track. And that's maybe part of the shortening to is that you don't want to risk losing someone's attention because the payoff may not be monetary. But at least on Spotify, if a listener listens to the whole track that increases the chances of that, track appearing on a larger playlist, so they do factor in on Spotify. How if someone listens to the entire track you won't get paid more. But having a song place onto a playlist can lead to even more click. Wchs. Yes. So you do want someone to listen through the entirety. And I think it's important to note that it's not that the average is actually that much shorter today. So if the average song is three minutes and forty seconds in two thousand eighteen songs before that, you know, four minutes whatever the thing that's really changing is the rapid increase in of songs under three minutes. And so there's a growth, especially in hip hop. We're seeing songs like little pumps Gucci gang comes in two minutes and four seconds. There was rigging many more songs if you look at salons record fourteen of the nineteen songs, and there are under three minutes long ten of them are under two minutes long. And so while they are getting a watch shorter, but needs point is absolutely right. You want someone to get all the way through, you don't want someone skipping your song at all. So there's kind of like this healthy balance, and I don't think we're entering into an era of where songs are going to be exactly thirty five seconds because there's all sorts of forms and conventions, that we like to hear the thing is you need to grab someone in and you need to make sure they wasn't to the entire. Thing, and then get out and into the next song in the most successful way that you possibly, can it and it's funny because bohemian, rhapsody movie just came out it hit streaming. Right. Bohemian rhapsody, the single reappears.

Taylor Spotify cough thirty seconds three minutes two minutes thirty five seconds ninety minutes forty seconds three seconds four minutes four seconds ten seconds mill
How streaming royalties have changed the length of songs

The Vergecast

00:44 sec | 1 year ago

How streaming royalties have changed the length of songs

"charlie harding" Discussed on The Vergecast

The Vergecast

03:16 min | 1 year ago

"charlie harding" Discussed on The Vergecast

"Just I'm just going with it, until someone tells me to stop, but I think you're probably has his great. You guys have been basically pull apart music, and try to analyze it for a bunch of different trends. To- just everybody that sort of quick pitch of how how you do what you do. Sure. So our show is all about taking the songs that are on the top forty and trying to understand how they work and why they're so successful. And learn something about the world we live in, in the process. And you, you, you tack it from the songwriting perspective and the Musicology perspective, right? Yeah. We're really interested in how the music says something within the way it's composed. And maybe that reflect something larger in trends about culture or technology. But we always start from the music I. Yeah. And so you guys just didn't episode actually kind of prompted me to bring. On obviously streaming services are everywhere. Yes. Algorithm. Playlists are everywhere in the album is falling apart. And the forces of the universe are, are taking hold in. You guys just did a great upset. The thongs are getting dramatically shorter over time. And I'm just I wanna start there because it's such a like what did technology to music, like it's such a concrete thing to be like, we'll songs got like more than thirty seconds shorter. Over the past eighteen years putty like begin to see those kinds of facts. Yeah. So one of the main trends that we're seeing in music and the stream economies that songs are getting shorter from the nineties to now. The average song has decreased in time. And there's way more songs which are extremely short that we're seeing if you look at something like Spotify Spotify came out in two thousand six but streaming revenue only took over other music revenue in thousand seventeen there's about a ten year lag time. And in that lifetime when finally str-. Aiming has become the dominant force of distributing music. We have seen finally changes in how people are writing songs, and one of the main things that has changed as well. Really? Actually, how people are getting paid is affecting how songs are being written. And in the past used to get paid if you sold an album or single, and we can actually see translate that have occurred have have changed over time in previous decades when the long playing record came out songs started to get longer in the, the one paying record being the LP we were able to put more songs onto physical device long ago. But in with over a period about ten years song started to get longer and actually got longer all the way even further into the nineteen nineties nineteen ninety-five. We had songs were coming in at four minutes, and thirty seconds. These are sort of number one songs on the billboard and today songs are down to three minutes and forty two seconds in this because of the difference in how art. Are getting paid. Now, instead of getting paid by the physical sales, you're getting paid in stream and the stream only counts of someone listens to thirty seconds of a song. But since you're getting paid by stream. Now it actually makes sense. If you can have Moore's songs streamed at a time, which means that you wanna pack your album full of much shorter songs because if you have an album like I don't know say Drake's scorpion..

Spotify Moore Drake thirty seconds forty two seconds eighteen years three minutes four minutes ten years ten year
"charlie harding" Discussed on The Vergecast

The Vergecast

01:40 min | 1 year ago

"charlie harding" Discussed on The Vergecast

"Sloan from switched on pop. Which is a new vox podcast. It's all about music, and what it means specifically music at the top forty Charlie. Nate unpack it every week. And they tell us about how transient technology distribution are fighting what we listen to. This is a really interesting conversation. I'm going to say we got pretty deep into whether NATO song is good or not. It's just a fact. And the answer is it's not good. But it is structured really weirdly in a way that reflects how music is tributed. Now, we also talked a lot about how songs are getting shorter. Because streaming services employ Lewis. This is basically a really interesting conversation about how changing music distribution has changed the nature of song. So check it out. It's Charlie Harding Nate. Sloan from swish on pop. All right. We've Charlie Harding and Nate Sloan from switched on pop. Hello, gentlemen. Hello. Just for the audience, Charlie. You say Hello in the net USA. Hey, how's it going this, Charlie? Hey, this is Nate. Awesome. Well, thank you for joining me. I'm a big fan of switched on pop, which I have to say is in the vox media podcast network. So technically, I don't know if you know, this, we're gonna beef. Oh, I insisted the virtuous is the flagship hot. That'd be I will say it's pointed it's, it's definitely pointed at like Ashra, although he refuses to acknowledge the beef exist. So I just I'm just going with it, until someone tells me to stop, but I think you're probably has his great. You guys have been basically pull apart music, and try to analyze it for a bunch of different trends. To- just everybody that sort of quick pitch of how how you do what you do. Sure. So our show is all about taking the songs that are on the top forty and trying to.

Charlie Harding Nate Nate Sloan Charlie Charlie Harding vox media NATO Ashra Lewis USA.
"charlie harding" Discussed on The Vergecast

The Vergecast

02:09 min | 1 year ago

"charlie harding" Discussed on The Vergecast

"I am that decision maker in a certain way, but I have not globally that decision making my, my sense, is I sit here today is that it is very tough to kind of mitigate some of these vulnerabilities when you're talking about having this company, potentially allowing their software to have a code that allows for a back door for, for potential Chinese spying. I think that's very hard to hard tart, mitigate. But it does that look like, okay, you're gonna turn over all your source code to us before you're allowed to ship on product in the country. Is that where you're going to submit to testing like is there a method or their steps that you could see that would actually begin to mediate this problem? I'm sure that will be part of an ongoing dialogue both with you know, the folks that, that truly do that national security aspect of that on a daily basis. FBI CIA folks that are really focused on that. And getting their assessment on on whether there is. As a path for while way to otherwise get themselves comfortable with the national security risks that folks, very clearly feel are real inner out there. I will take a quick break for an ad. We were at back. Beyond saying, Arianna Guerande and Drake are talked about ad nauseam as celebrities. But there's one thing that's rarely discussed their music on switched on hop. We go deep into the sounds of pop music to explain what it means. How it's made and why it's so effective. We talked with some today's greatest artists producers journalists to decode the musical logic behind our modern soundtrack and understand its role in our culture switched on pop. Won't reveal for you. How a secretive Swedish producer is behind. Many of the top ten hits of the past twenty years, and we'll uncover the ways. That songwriters embed their political activism into today's most popular tracks, we'll show you the surprising musical similarities between Cardi B and Taylor swift. And we'll even dive into the classical pass to hear how the Jonas brothers MIR Mozart's youthful party days. I'm songwriter, Charlie Harding, and I'm musicologist Nate Sloan join us on a journey.

Arianna Guerande Charlie Harding Taylor swift MIR Mozart Nate Sloan FBI producer CIA Drake twenty years
"charlie harding" Discussed on The Polygon Show

The Polygon Show

03:57 min | 1 year ago

"charlie harding" Discussed on The Polygon Show

"But he keeps doing things to help her in this asshole kind of way where he's like, I'm not doing something. Nice. But also, I wanna protect you. I'm like, yeah. I'm very engineers. Oh me too. I'm just curious like where it came from. I don't know. What's so unexpected? I'm like half expecting some like poignant flashback about maybe his younger sister that he tragically lost. Who was also a red head. I don't know. I love it. Sorry. I don't think we need. I know that we get specific damn to make his feelings validated. I think it's just like maybe he's getting older. Maybe he's having those like his life is changing because he sees shit. He's been he hasn't been like as warm to aria granted, she left him to die. She extremely worn aria. And then she left him to die. We had warmed to her before that though us kind of NASA her still one of my favorite character archetypes is like the complete gruff asshole. Who like secretly has. This like melting inner core of like I need to protect I need to make sure these people these special people are okay. And that's why I love the house so much because he has that for aria and Zonta. For definitely for Sanga. Yeah. No. They're about to start their buddy cop show, and I'm very slow. Oh my God. Yes. I think we should wrap it up and save the rest of next week. We're gonna have a lot of feelings next week any predictions. I'm jamie. I don't think he's save. I don't think anyone about Jamie. I think that I mean, we're gonna see the whatever plans various has for Danny bearing out. I don't know if it's plans as much as it is probably spreading the gossip there that Janney. Danny was super right though. She was one hundred percent. I actually like really impressed with how spot on like how humans aren't like how she understands how humans work. She's absolutely right. She's like if you tell them everyone is going to know. Oh, yeah. That was John is an idiot. Also start side damn food store. Cly besides the aria. Okay. Besides the stock women struck men have not been very smart. No, no foolish. They should listen dark men need to listen to the women. All right. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the polygon show, a hope that you enjoyed it. Please review it on podcast if you did give us those stars baby. It really does help people find the show. We appreciate it a lot. If you have anything to. Say you can Email probably gun show, polygon dot com. And of course. Things everyone the next week spend Polly gun show. Songwriter. Charlie Harding, and I'm using colleges. Nate Sloan and this week on switched on pop. We deconstruct lizotte cuz I love it is her latest album. It has come out on number six on the charts. Is absolutely stunning. Yeah. What you're gonna find about this album is that it transcends. Genre to meet some sort of really potent message that Liz, oh has to tell every song has something really stunning in it. And if you want understand how her songs work, what makes them tick and have a lot of fun. To her tracks. Listen to switched on pop anywhere. You get your podcasts..

Janney Jamie Danny NASA Sanga Charlie Harding Nate Sloan Zonta Liz John one hundred percent
"charlie harding" Discussed on Switched On Pop

Switched On Pop

01:55 min | 3 years ago

"charlie harding" Discussed on Switched On Pop

"But i have to say charles usually i'm i'm right there with you but i'm still a little sceptical about this one really okay okay i just i i hear this as another one of these kind of searing indictment of the formulae kness of popular music that kind of dole's us into a acceptance of whatever chaos and travesties in crisis are corroding the world around us it goes on and on and on just like music goes on and on and on in these courses go on and on and on as long as we're listening we're just going to tune out everything around us so the song is completely ever of well or its of worship blob and tells you if you're an optimistic person like charlie harding or a a nihilist sticks fatalistic russian existentialist like uh like they'd flown i guess or nathaniel slim okay so we both one of the contributions by katy perry in skip marley but who else has underneath facade well i know the ball five now we should get this zone is written and produced by very familiar figure to us one max martin his kadri of collaborators alley p army and drummer all sia as i a the one named top songstress so yeah the top oh sang enough oughta go into the phone because it does a lot of the things we've heard before we've obviously covered max martin's material relentlessly per in particular think that this is almost a follow up to can't stop the feeling the justin timberlake song that we talked about in episode through.

charles dole charlie harding katy perry marley max martin nathaniel justin timberlake
"charlie harding" Discussed on Switched On Pop

Switched On Pop

01:40 min | 3 years ago

"charlie harding" Discussed on Switched On Pop

"What could switched on pop armed songwriter charlie harding and i'm musical just made sloan nate we've been getting a ton of requests over the last two weeks for both katy perry is changed the rhythm and lord's new single green light and i have to admit that i was actually hesitant want to talk about these songs that i really tell me why well in some ways they're very well trodden territory because the songwriters producers behind these songs have been really thoroughly discussed on the show on past episodes fair enough and yet something couldn't keep you away no both these songs are amazing and have really surprising twists and turns bottle today to host a double feature and we're going to do is entitled wanna songs without show is on a second half the show we're going to turn it into a bit of a game we're going to break down both song and throw we're gonna see a listener identify who wrote that in mobile at the beach soft while the plot thickens i'm way into it so in the first half of the show we're gonna breakdown katy perry chain to the rhythm featuring skip morally this is a dance hall slash disco be in it's the first single off her forthcoming studio album it's performed really well and i think it deserves the accolades because of the way that the song acts on so many levels and of course supporting katie on this track are some amazing co writers and producers who we will reveal at the end.

katy perry katie charlie harding two weeks