8 Episode results for "Charlie Reader"
Episode 5- To Protect & Serve
"Your time for some real summer fund is here so ditched the boredom and hit up your local mini dealer because the many summer of dr event is happening. Now get a new mini cooper s countryman. All four starting at three sixty nine per month for thirty six month low mileage lease with two thousand nine hundred ninety nine due at signing visit many usa dot com slash east for details. That's many usa dot com slash. And see what. It's like to drive the most versatile. Many ever at the mini summer of dr event after a long time off summers back and whole foods market has the exceptional ingredients. You need to make the most of it that means air chilled animal welfare certified chicken sustainable while caught sockeye salmon. And have you seen those organic peaches epic so whether it's succulent pork. Ribs or a towering plant based burger in the backyard. Take the guardrails off and summer on at whole foods market. Welcome to the and massacre production of iheartradio and katie studios. We are here today. For the case of ohio versus charles reader case numbers. Twenty nine thousand nine hundred. Cr six eight The quarter now here from mr lean. I stayed here before you today to take accountability for my actions to accept responsibility for my conduct share of ohio. I should is me thing that i've worked for professionally and honorably for twenty. Five years was trip to me with nobody disappointing but my stuff. If i could go back and jaded i would a million times. This is not. Hawaii never ever did. I imagine myself on the victim side. This court group. That i've spent twenty five years of my life in this down in law enforcement. I am a good person. Make bad decisions and choices prayed. Quite mercy on me this is. The massacre returned. Pike county season two episode five to protect and serve. I'm gordon armstrong. A television producer. Kt studios with stephanie. Decker and jeff shane on the morning of april twenty. Second two thousand sixteen the pike county. Sheriff's office responded to calls of multiple homicides in what would soon be considered ohio's notorious mass murderer seven adults and one sixteen year. Old boy were found in four different locations along a country road in pike county. We know all of these victims. All members of the road in family shooting. Sift town of piped-in numb a lot of unanswered questions as to how this unfolded and who is responsible for them as news of the tragedy emerged. The nation. turn to the area's top law enforcement official for answers. Pike county sheriff charlie reader to give a brief update on what we are doing at this time. I have Deputies from my county and other counties that are keeping the scene secured. here's reporter jane's culture. He's the one updating the media. he's the one who's available. He's the one when you wanted to ask how things are going. He was the one that you call so he began. The face of the investigation early on this investigation is very large. One probably the largest in pike county than we've ever had been a part of this very tragic. I want everybody to be patient but understand that we are working around the clock twenty four hours a day but this is going to be a very lengthy process. Reporter engineer levy covered many of readers briefings during the course of the road and murder investigation. You know he was out in front of this standing next to the attorney general at the time doing press conferences with him and he often became very emotional and people. There were a lot of people in pike county who really really liked ten. You came in like thieves in the night and took eight. Life's some being children. We are getting closer. The family and the victims will have justice. One day charlie. Reader by all accounts is somebody who grew up in pike county. He did not come from a well to do family or anything like that. A lot of people out in pay county or poor. he worked for many years for the pike. County prosecutor rob john his investigator and at some point charlie reader was appointed the sheriff by the democratic party in pike county criminal defense attorney mike allen remembered readers two thousand sixteen landslide election. He got seventy five percent is opponent got twenty. Five percent is pretty unheard of in any kind of election so at one point he was pretty popular. Sheriff there were a lot of people in the community who felt that he did some good things at the sheriff's office when he first still felt like he. cleaning up crime in the streets southern ohio has very major drug problem with opioids in methamphetamine. Sentinel and all of it and a couple of members of the community claims that reader really was there for the family after one of their members died from a drug overdose and health. Plan a memorial tree in his honor so he was very approachable. Key was out and about in the community. Much more charlie. Reader printed himself as the people sheriff during the height of the road and murder investigation. Sheriff readers passionate pleas for justice earned him the trust of his community as a sheriff pike. County were at three hundred fifty six days into this investigation of got a message for the killers. We will find you. We will arrest you and you will be prosecuted. As this case niche forward. The spotlight grew brighter and brighter and that area. Because of this case and i think he enjoyed the spotlight to a degree. I think he had greater political aspirations as well. Here's producer chris graves speaking with investigative reporter. Jodi bar he covered the road. Murder case for fox news nineteen in cincinnati. What kind of power does a sheriff wheeled in a community like fight county. He was the closest to the people. Pike county and you see that with a lot of elected officials in more rural areas that you know the sheriff is literally the top dog in the county. He is the face of law enforcement. He controls what happens with law enforcement. Where patrols happen and he so as far as an elected official as far as a person holding. Power your sheriff in these areas demand. Something like that. Go to someone's head you've worked in law enforcement yourself for quite a while. Oh yeah you see it. a lot. Police chief sore sheriffs or somebody who's recently promoted to a supervisory position. I mean thank goodness. That doesn't happen to a lot of them but some of them the dodge now whether that happened here not i don't know but yeah that that very much could happen as the rodman moved into. Its second year. Some disquieting rumours about sheriff reader began to surface as we began to spend more time out there. We started hearing the rumblings that arison corruption out there. We had heard rumors about him. Intimidating people and possibly taking money from people who were in the drug dealing business. I know i for one was told by some of my law enforcement sources in the cincinnati area. Hey you need to be careful around him. He sturdy and these were just people that were my sources who said you know. Look i just want you to be aware. Be careful was because they were afraid. It didn't trust him. They did not trust. Charlie reader a rumor that he was Sexually harassing some female employees when he worked at the ross county at juvenile detention center records from his personnel file said that He wasn't the right fit and there were too many questions yet. A lawsuit in small claims court in nineteen ninety five and gala police for not paying a debt and there was a warrant issued for him but he ended up paying it. So i mean there were some things out there. There appears to be two sides of charlie reader. One that you know the public sees and they saw these nationally. Televised broadcasts press conferences. Where readers very emotional talking about these rodent murderers very early on and then there is something you see in charlie reader aware when readers challenge you another side of raider so he's he's got a very public face in a very private face. Then oh yeah. Investigators recently towed vehicles. That had been part of the homes where eight members of the rodent family were found. Shot to death in pike county ohio last month before mobile homes themselves where the bodies were found will be removed from the scene to be stored at a location in nearby waverley again right outside investigator reporter jodi bar live in pike county. While i was in pike county i started seeing things that i had to question what we found at that evidence warehouse where the trailers vehicles the equipment that all belong to the rodents was shared office and bci took that so we found problems with the security of that evidence and the security of that warehouse. I'm not an attorney. I've never prosecuted the case. I've never collected evidence for what i do know. Is that evidence that is collected has to be secured. I've seen prosecutions lost in courtrooms in the states. I've covered because someone's fail to secure one piece of evidence. And of course charlie reader was so central to what we were looking at. Is the man in charge that we had to go find him. We scheduled the interview and we sat down. And we had this conversation with charlie reader. And i wanna say lasted maybe forty five minutes to an hour and again back to watching the two sides of cheerleader. You had the emotional charlie reader early on in the interview where he's talking about. You know the roads and you know what this is done to pike county and then i broke out and ipad and on that i've had. I had visuals the images that i taken from that warehouse at the gate standing while another game cheered with a piece of thin wire days and nights of no law enforcement at that where how and i think reader new during the middle of that interview that this was not going to look good when we recorded it that will we found there looked terrible and it reflected on the job he did. So i saw charlie reader change but he changed into defensive at red face but rear finally admitted that they did not have a deputy posted at that warehouse watching that evidence. Twenty four seven. What sheriff reader did next destruct seasoned reporter. Jodi bars troubling. Here's dodi's firsthand. Account of the interaction so the interview ins and photographer and i are tearing down the equipment and trump walks out. The front door of the old sheriff's office in waverly were standing on the porch of that sheriff's office in reader. Wants to make a deal and he says if we'll just hold off on the report of the evidence where how and wait until they can return property to the family that reader would lead us in full access to him and turley readers story of the first one hundred hours after the road murders and i just told him no. We don't make deals several months. After that report aired. I got messages from people in pike. County what after the other telling me that there was a raid underway at this road. Evidence warehouse in waverly well. I dropped everything i was doing at. Cincinnati intro the two hours east to this warehouse. In when i got there there. They were shared. Charlie reader deputies. The pike county sheriff's office carrying things in and out of this warehouse. And you know. I'm standing there wondering what is going on here. This shouldn't be happening unless there's something happened. We don't know about involving the rodent murders. This was a great public concern but that night reader would not return my phone calls. It was very contentious trying to get information out of pike county out of the sheriff's office at a point but after that we were never able to access him again. Despite scharf readers apparent mishandling of aspects of the road murder investigation authorities were able to put the wagner family behind bars and twenty eighteen however just weeks later area journalists got word that a different investigation unrelated to the road and murderers was underway. One that placed sheriff charlie reader on the other side of the law. The state auditor's office released documents to all of us. That stated an anonymous tip had come in to the auditor's office in which someone stated that everyone was scared to death of reader that he was basically a monster and investigators need to look into a safe that was in his office. That contained money seized in drug deals and it also said something about him possibly gambling in. Is this really wore on. The investigation continued and then word started spreading around pike. County really took. What was going on with charlie reader to a whole new level in june of two thousand nineteen. A grand jury brought forth sixteen charges. Against sheriff charlie reader as a result. He was suspended from office bringing his three year. Tenure sheriff to a close. The indictment laid out details of the investigation and his crimes. Reader originally faced several counts of theft in office which is a felony on aisle as well as tampering with evidence which is also a felony in ohio. So what happens is charlie. Reader has a pretty sizable amount of money. He's taken from alleged drug dealers in pike county. Sheriff every law enforcement agency and the entire country much less than including ohio is allowed to seize money from suspects if they think that that money or those goods are being used in the commission of a crime money that was seized it in drug cases to supposed to be secured in a safe or in a bank account or something and you can use them for education purposes for the sheriff's department You can contribute to appropriate charities but in these cases at least on two occasions the allegation was that he took cash and converted it to his his own use so the state auditor does their annual review of the books on the first passed the state auditors. Find some money missing out of the seizure account and then they go back to reader and apparently he tries to put it back by the that leads to the state auditor's office then diving into getting warrants and diving into his personal finance records. They find multiple expenses in multiple trips to casinos. Both in the area and out of state and tens of thousands of dollars spent a casinos impossible. Depth records are pretty clear that showed some pretty big losses at the race track and also They found that he would through more than twenty eight hundred dollars from Machines that the atlantic casino so it was pretty clear it was from gambling. Some of the other allegations were that a lotta times in drug cases cars are forfeited and in a couple of charges The allegations are that at the auction. he rigged it and engineered at that either era frank friends of his would get those vehicles and then turn around and sell them so they were very serious charges on september. Twenty four th twenty twenty sheriff. Charles reader pled guilty to five charges filed against him. They included two counts of theft in office two counts of tampering with evidence and one count of conflict of interest. A few months later he appeared in court for sentencing. It was the day that net levy would not soon forget. What was the mood like through all of this. I couldn't believe it when i got out there that morning. The street was blocked off. There were members of the us. Marshals service air the us marshals service bomb squad. Was there it. There were sheriff's deputies. There i mean this was quite the operation. There were snipers orioles. Actually have a photograph of a sniper on a roof and there had been some rumblings online apparently people encouraging people to show up at the courthouse to protest the sentence. There was some fear that people who were really hard core supporters of his might show up and try to do something dangerous in order to keep him from being sentenced to prison. It was crazy it had never even been like that for a wagner court hearing. We're going to take a quick break here. We'll be back in a moment last year. There was a victim of identity theft. 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Don't wait offer ends june thirteenth. Shell brothers is now building new homes and ten unique communities across tax friendly coastal delaware with twelve models available to virtually tour you can discover shaw brothers unique carbon peel and sensational floor plans from the comfort of your own home. Spring is the perfect time to start planning your dream home to start exploring everything shell brothers has to offer visit us today at shaw brothers dot com models currently open by appointment only inside the courtroom. The mood was much different today. For sentencing in the case of ohio versus charles reader. He's number is twenty nine thousand nine hundred cr. Six eight reader had his sentencing in front of a visiting judge patricia. Cosgrove who had actually sentenced three previous ohio shares on corruption charges. Now we're five charges and all of those could have gotten him more than twelve years in prison. You see charlier eater. He's sitting court sitting beside his defense attorney at a table to the left. And at the table to the right the prosecutor who went to the grand jury got the indictments against raider. Who got the guilty plea from raider butts before and you see these two tables in opposition to one another and the judges in the center. There's a empty podium in the center and then you see people walk up to that podium. And they start telling these stories of the good deeds charter reader. Did in certain instances around that county. He went through one of the most horrendous crimes ever committed in our counties to my memory what he went through. I can't take the night. he went sleepless. What is family went through what had done to his health. But i believe in his heart. Charlie reader is a good man. Has charlie made mistakes. Yes ma'am he probably has. But in the bible it says eager without sin cast the first. I could though many rocks at resolved made mistakes to one fact. I know charlie was to count on when you need them and would vote for him today. Houston shortsighted standing. God is my witness after these people have said what they said you see reader. Walk up to the podium. Now hanson misdemeanor. He's instantly emotional. He's in tears. And he's asking the judge for mercy to be lenient with him and sentencing. This is where he is laying it all out and asking. The state of ohio for mercy said bad light only sheriff. I only ask that their families. The community in my family was here today for him from the undue stress. Like those. I have an i l. prayed that work will fight mercy on me the same that i have. I feel that i have betrayed. Just play the trust of. I had with my staff the community. Please send me to prison. I have roamed. But i'm not. I still have a lot of good. Lifted during the proceedings. Details of readers crimes where luminated would note that the defendant was laughing county. Sheriff who committed these crimes is position is county sheriff Used his position to obtain control over evans bags and then use that control to remove the fines and use them for his own benefit. The majority of the funds involved were removed from the four evidence. Bags cut open by defendant. A fourteen thousand seven hundred. Seventy five dollars was removed fryer to defend in his attorney turning those bags over to investigators for the author states office the different currency new cases uncirculated bills was were put into the currency bags so that restoration would have been taken care of that point. Additionally there's a total four thousand eight hundred fifty dollars outstanding three thousand five hundred from the purchase of the nissan versa. Which was the profit made by the sheriff on that action. Three hundred fifty dollars the purchase of people who purchased the chevy silverado. In one thousand dollars seats never made it into the ovens so judge. Patricia kaas grows. She has a reputation for being very tough on sheriffs in in ohio who have been engaged in corruption and she is no nonsense and she questioned reader from the bench. During the judges questioning. Sheriff reader did his best to explain his more motivation behind his actions. Why did you cut open these evidence envelopes and take the money out and some cases you put back although newer caught because the envelopes had been unsealed in seal again improperly end. The denominations did not match what was taken at the crime scene from those individuals. I guess why did you take the money. I took the money in mind you. This does not excuse the from drug dealers that took it from parents. Very poor people in this camp that money regardless of what the and what the media has claimed in the past years of a gambling problem and that money being used for gambling was used when there was a tree planted in the name of the shelton boy. It's at the in terms of western high school to the left. As soon as you pull in. Nobody can pay for that treat. Nobody offered to pay for that tree. A drug door did when schools had cheerleading or peewee. That had car washes and such. I would have our cruisers taken down there. My men and women did not make good money so some of them would give them two dollars five dollars. I took money from that. And i provided it to those people in psi the presents the gatien the psi officer. Notes that there's no documentation that you use it for those things. I did not document. He didn't produce any receipts to back. These claims up. And we're still stood process by which those are tracked and you have to produce An accounting of all of that money so he claimed that he was essentially a robin hood. The judge certainly didn't believe it but then the judge started asking him questions about gambling. There were a couple of times judge cosgrove all the economy and she. She sounded very very skeptical. Let's stop here for another quick break. 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Check out of us at movers. Diamonds dot com again. That's mervyn's diamonds dot com. Did you lose three thousand dollars. Gambling at this downs received between june. Two thousand seventeen in september two thousand and seventeen. Yes not by myself. They have cards an of course again. You're on our guilty to this but they have carte that you put in a machine. I can have a card in my name. And i can have a card in my name that my wife is so i could be at one machine and she can be at the other and the money that she spends the money that i spend. They count on the same card and calculate the money as one obviously doesn't answer the question where the money in the checking account come from. Okay also yes you late june. Two thousand seventeen. You took a trip to reno nevada for the sheriff's conference and then you withdrew twenty eight hundred dollars an atm. This state believes that some of the gambling talking life go over almost six thousand dollars in a couple a months that you are asked expended on gambling that point we were making almost eleven thousand dollars a month and that again was from my checking account where it should show miodrag deposits my wife rex deposits and that. It came remark evid cards where i retrieve that money darn came from debit cards. The question is worded the money. Come when to check in. That's i guess. That's that's where that's where. The media reported that. I had marital problems because it came from our joint bank account. My wife made very good money at the time. Then i took that money and that's all the questions important. Has she really let him have it. She took no grief from him whatsoever. Be underestimated the damage. You have caused to the citizens of pike county to launch forcement. Yup face the same sort of stresses you do they all home at night They get up in the morning. They don't know if they're going to come home. The sacrifices that these men and women. And i think he made a mockery of i could have imposed a much greater sentence that i have as i said i've taken into consideration. Some of the mitigating factors but punishment is appropriate to sentence you to i consider the minimum power to sentence you to anything Less than three years in prison would demean the seriousness of the offense and not adequately protect society for future criminal conduct by yourself an honest the judge handed him three years in reader walked out of that courtroom and into jail sale to pay for throwing away. His career embarrassing himself and air thing is family she. He became a victim of his own power. You said a sheriff in the county lake. That is top dog right. Maybe he started feeling. He was above the law. The only fifteen years of doing this job looking at people like charlie reader in multiple states with multiple different schemes of crimes being committed. There's a trend with just shares. In general where a lot of them get in trouble is it because they feel so powerful and touchable. I don't know but man you look at it in the final analysis. What we have here is a guy in pike county who had the county by a streaming who had the trust of people who live in that county. So is it power. I don't know all that. I know at this point. Is you had an elected official. Who makes a pretty bad decisions and he's paying for it now. Have you gotten a sense. What the implications might be for the wagner cases that readers now going to jail there early facing down prison for whether or not that had anything to do with the actual investigation. No one knows by. If i'm a defense attorney all i gotta do is throw it that smokescreen at some point and see what happens and if i'm a prosecutor i'm thinking okay. I need to have a contingency plan to how to answer this. If you're the defense. I'm assuming you will bring it up in court. You'll you'll point to that if the judge allows it and say you know. How can you trust investigation. This man was out there on the scene that morning. I think it makes people in the county question. What's really going on there. While we wait to see how sheriff readers conviction will impact the wagner trials. One journalist continues to grapple with the legacy of the road and murders story. That forever changed her life more than five years ago. More on that next time for more information on the case and relevant photos. Follow us on instagram. At kt underscore studios the pike and massacre. Returned by county is executive produced by stephanie. Lie decker and me. Courtney armstrong editing and sound design by executive producer. Jared aston additional producing jeff. Shane andrew becker and chris graves. The pike massacre returned to pay cownie a production of iheartradio. Kt studios for more podcasts. From iheartradio visit the iheartradio app apple podcasts. 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Episode 10- Hopper Road
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Tell you can take a virtual tour online and get directions to the store at home. Sense dot com welcome to the pike and massacre returned to county a production of iheartradio and katie studios. You've got all these scenarios in your head. I think this may have happened her navy. They did this. Every family of a murder victim does that you lay in bed and you think what happened. Why did they do this to did this. There's someone out there roaming around that killed two people that you could be standing beside in the grocery store and scary is the pike massacre returned to pay county season two episode ten hopper road. I'm courtney armstrong a television producer at katy studios stephanie. Lie decker and jeff shane over the course of producing this series. We've spoken to several members of the road and family because of a gag order and impending trials for the wagner family. They have been unable to go on record but earlier this year. One member of the family told us that her friend a pie. Tin resident named angie montgomery wanted to share a story about her own family and a loss they had suffered some years back. Coincidentally that same week a listener wrote in asking about that exact case so for this bonus episode as gear up to the season finale. Next week we decided to look into it. Angie perhaps more than most people can empathize with with. The roads are going through when we spoke to angie. She had just heard about jake. Wagner's plea deal in the road murder case. This news hit angie especially hard. She told us that she immediately reached out to her. Rodent family friend. I remember texting her just telling her. I was sorry that had to hurt so bad knowing that you sat down to eat christmas dinner with these people. You went to church with these people. So i can't imagine finding that out. Angie reflected back on the day. The bodies of eight members of the rodent family were found. I think we lost our innocence. That day we lost our wholesomeness our trust. We lost everything it was like you weren't a days this is happening. Your like where am i living. What's going on here. it's crazy angie's bewilderment is no doubt informed by her own tragic loss ten years before the road and family was gunned down. Her cousin curtis francis and his fiancee. Jennifer forget were also murdered and pike county. Angie spoke with producer. Chris graves about it. I know this probably hard. But can you describe for me. What happened to curtis jennifer on december. Ninth two thousand. Six curtis at his friend's house visiting he had been drinking that day and having a little bit of fun and jennie had came down and told him that he needed to get home and he laughed about ten thirty that night and went home and his mother talked to him before he went to bed. Belt midnight. I think in jenny had talked to a friend. I think about eleven thirty so they were going to bed and the next day. Nine one one call came in that genie's mother had found curtis jenny they had been shot in their bed was horrible. Curtis jenny were good. People you heartbreaking. It was just a shop. it's unsolved correct. Yes fourteen years unthought. It's a roller coaster. You go down every day you go up and down you know. Today's going to be the day something's going to happen and nothing just before their murders thirty four year old curtis francis and thirty year old jennifer. Forget where recently engaged. Couple living in piped-in ohio cousin. Curtis can you tell me a little bit about him and what he was like. Curtis was a good guy. He had a good heart. What help anybody he was. A hard worker loved family. He was very loyal and he was a a very good person. He was a little bit older than and we would see each other. You know when we were younger but we really hung out or when we got older teenagers in her early twenties. During that time we were pretty close. He was like more like a big brother to me. What about jennifer his fiancee. I like to call her a caretaker. She liked to take care of everybody. She loved in a move. She liked to fish. She was a good soul shannon goodhart. And what were they like together. They were a cute couple. They were neighbors. Always joke around. Curtis like joke a lot and laughing and they were just a normal couple. I guess hard working couple their murders just before christmas in two thousand six. Where a shock to everyone. Who knew the couple. Curtis jennifer were shot while they lie asleep in their home. On harper road in piped-in it was later determined that the bullets that killed them were fired from a lever action. Rifle i assume you guys try to work with the police on this right. How did that work at first. The family as being told jeannie and curtis's family. You know we don't know who did this. We don't know what's gonna win. You know law enforcement you. Trust them if they tell you. Hey we're working on this we're gonna get him. You know you gotta be patient which Everybody understands that you can't solve a murder in a day. Sometimes it takes a long time but after fourteen years of being told going from working on it to not contacting at all too well. We've we've went as far as we can go with this case. There's not really anything else we can do unless someone confesses or you know something. Drastic happens that hurts. I think there was one article on it when it happened a few days after it happened in the local paper and and a few other media outlets picked it up and did a couple of articles but after that there was nothing. You feel. like you're never gonna get justice and then you worry about. Hey you know. There's someone on the loose that could do this to other families. And then that turns into kind of aggravation. Why isn't anything being done. Why isn't this case important. Why the mafia important but authorities had no answers eventually the case that became known as the hopper road double when cold then twenty twelve there was suddenly some movement as part of his ohio unsolved homicides initiative then-attorney attorney general mike dewine revived the case urging anyone. With information to come forward he caught wind and he went on channel ten news station on columbus and Beach urge road. Murders talked about it. They had a deputy from the sheriff's department. Talk about acting tips. You know anybody. If they have any information we believe there are person or people out there who have information who would enable us to solve the case me had gotten a new sheriff and he wanted to reopen the case. And try to get some help with it. How did that make you feel feel like someone was actually paying attention. You guys. yeah we were excited. Do you know this is it. Somebody's gonna do something. We've got the attorney general on this and something's going to happen. Dave followed a few leads and a few tips but nothing came about in two thousand fourteen. The investigation was handed back over to the pike. County sheriff's office and it just went cold again. Two years later in two thousand sixteen jody bar than an investigative reporter at fox nineteen in cincinnati received an email from a woman named paula horn. Saying something to the effect of my son who was wrongfully convicted of murder. It and she says. I've got information and another cold case. So of course that got my attention. I go and meet with this woman and what ended up happening. Was paula horns son. Eric was convicted of a separate murder in pike county. A few years before curtain ginny were murdered. He was convicted of murdering paul. Show shouting kilby. He was convicted of that. But i'll a horn was on a mission to have her son. Eric horn set free from prison. Paula horn was convince. Her son did not do the murder so she pulls this huge box out of a closet and it stacked full of papers and files. Paul horn head collected massive amount of documentation tied to her sons murder conviction. But it was documents within this archive pertaining to a different case. That caught. jody's. I the murderers of curtis francis and jennifer get on hopper road as it turns out. Erakor new curtis francis and was with him hours before he was murdered in this box of documents. That paul a horn had or email communications between the prosecution. It eric horns zone attorney. In their plotting hell eric corned would plead guilty in one case in the state would use him as a witness in the double murder on harper road. This was essentially. Eric hordes saying i will trade information about this double murder for a plea deal in this paul show murder so eric. Corn had written out a statement. It's called a proper where he's getting. Investigators information in one case to essentially help him in another. Erica horn gave this to investigators somewhere around september of two thousand and eight so over the next month. Or so eric. From prison writes his mother a letter and he tells her about what happened the night that kurt francis and jennifer forget when murdered according to his letter. Eric corn told authorities that he was at a house on winn road. Piked in ninth two thousand and six that night. A group including curtis francis had gathered at the home for a party horn claimed that he left the wind road home at around ten thirty pm and never saw curtis francis again but horn said that just weeks later he ran into a man who was at the party. The man told horn that he was forced to go to curtis and jennifer's house that night his housemate who shot the couple over money dispute. Eric corn never admits to having direct involvement with the actual murders and sales. But eric horn wrote in that letter that there was a lever action rifle that hung on the wall of the house home on winn road in that after these murders happened. That gun was no longer on the wall. We're going to take a quick break here. We'll be back in a moment. It's crazy how much we have to pay for outdated impersonal healthcare and even crazier that we all just accept it. It's time to face facts. Healthcare is backwards. Luckily there's forward a new approach to primary care that surprisingly personal and refreshingly straightforward never makes you feel like just another patient backed by top rated doctors and the latest tech forward gives you access to personalized care whenever you need it using in-depth genetic analysis in realtime bloodwork forward top top-rated doctors provide you with in-depth insights to better understand your genetics mental and physical health. 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No one can prevent all identity theft or monitor all transactions at all businesses but when identity thieves. Try to take what she wears. You don't have to take it lying down. Save up to twenty five percent off your first year by going to lifelock dot com slash piped-in. That's lifelock dot com slash payton for twenty five percent off The files collected by paula horn contained not only air corn statements but accounts from other witnesses about the native curtis francis and jennifer gets murders. What i was reading on them was unbelievable. There were witness statements out of an investigative files in the pike. County sheriff's office contained in this box of records to this box records contained every document. That somebody like me could only dream of having when you start investigating a murder. That's ten years old at that point in time and what she had in her possession documents that ultimately provided a whole lot of answers for jimmy's family. We win every shred of paper in this case file. I made sure. I understood who every person was who these players are how they were connected. Next job was then to go talk to the victims families. So i went to judy conley. Who is kurt francis. His mother jody bar revealed some of the other statements taken by police in their investigation into kurt. Jennifer's murderer to the family. These accounts however seemed to contradict what era corn initially told authorities. Here again. angie. Montgomery one statement is from a gentleman whose house courtesy was at the night that he got murdered. He stated that his brother and his friend eric corn had left after curtis had left about ten thirty or eleven and took a rifle off the wall and went in killed curtis jenny and that they came back with bloody clothes in the shower took a shower. Got the blood. Often them took their clothes out in the yard and put them in a black trash bag in burnt them all at the command of his mother. Because apparently curtis owed the mother's fiance. Three hundred dollars is what i was told. And then there's another statement and they told the same story that they took a rifle off. The wall came back. Bloody took a shower bird. Close eric. corn denies any and all involvement in curtis and jennifer's murders. Jody bar knew that the information he had could help track down curtis and jennifer killers. But there was one problem. Jody couldn't get any more information from investigators. We can't pull the records in this case. They're all under seal. This is still considered although it's cold it's attending open investigation regardless of whether investigators are actively working or not. These are not records. You can get a hold of under the open records. Act so what you have at that point. The only thing you have are the witnesses and family members who may have been in contact or who may have remembered something from from back when this began. But i knew there was something here. I just had to get somebody from the family to work with us to help us. Then all the sudden this guy was huge. Winter jacket walks in from the backyard and greasy. He's been working on a car. And it's paul francis. His brother is kerr trances and judy. Introduces us and i tell him why why i am there. In his whole demeanor changed he looked angry. And i'm thinking okay. This is this going to be one of those where i get hauled out of the by collar belt loops and paul tells me is. Let's get your car. i've got something to show you. So get the car and we drive from his home over to win road and he walks me out to the edge of the property and he says this is a well and then he starts telling me the story about the story that this well told that he just happened to find. Paul jody that in july of twenty sixteen. He was doing the plumbing job at the same house on winn road that curtis was last seen at the night of his murder in two thousand six. By this point the previous owners had moved out doing plumbing work. So he sees a waterline running outside with an electrical wire running out alongside the pipe. So he's trying to pull this water lineup and it gets to a point where he he can't pull it up out of the ground any longer so then starts pulling this electrical wire and it snakes across the yard and it goes down a hill under a pile of junk in the yard as you described it and he digs down in. He finds this well. Shaft paul told me in the back of his mind and suspicion was that this could hold some sort of answer to his brothers. It sister-in-law's murder. You told me. He had a gut feeling about it. So paul francis called the pike county sheriff's office into investigate by two thousand sixteen. The department was headed up by charlie reader who as we know would later be jailed on charges related to corruption in office at the moment when an twenty six. What were you guys feelings about. Charlie reader were you hopeful. Yeah you're hopeful with every new. Sheriff he also had his hands full because the road and massacre had just happened. We knew that resources were probably stretched. But we also thought the bci the fbi. They're already down here in our county that gave us a little bit of hope of maybe The sheriff will say something and and pick up on this too. We were very hopeful that he would do something and something would happen. So the sheriff. Charlie reader paid a local plumbing company to run on plumbers camera down the well they were able to capture images of a handgun ant then this lever action rifle been that is very similar to the gun that air corn described in his two thousand eight letter that he sent his mom from prison. Let's stop here for another quick break. We'll be back in a moment. Okay so i gotta tell you about shopping at home sense. Oh yeah. I need to check that out. Is it good. It's better than good. trust me. it's a whole new way to shop. 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America's number one meal kit a authorities also found burnt clothing a detail relaid in eric corn statement. This could have been the break in the case the only physical evidence that we know of was down a well shaft and the sheriff's office just feet away for being able to get their hands on it baggage process if potentially prosecute somebody in the hopper road double-murder so then they were faced with the task of. How do we get these guns out of this. Well it's it's an eight inch pipe. You know that goes down into a well so they tried with a magnet. I was told and when that failed. They called in a fire truck. The idea was used the fire. Hose to fill the well with water which wouldn't turn live the guns back up to the surface authorities to retrieve but things did not go as expected. Nate place the fire hose and the pipe and turned the water on it. Blew the bottom of the well out and knocked like an eighty foot pole in allow. Took the guns with yourself. This ultimately ends up getting a welder out there. The welder wells a plate over top of this well. And that's where it's at july two thousand sixteen and here. We are years later. The likelihood that it's ever recovered. It's not looking very good right now. How did that feel horrible. Muscial and don't horrible anger. You know this is that was probably the biggest break will ever getting in this case ever. Despite potential evidence being lost jodi buyer pressed on with his investigation in two thousand seventeen. He went forward with a series of reports on the hopper double murder case the pike county sheriff at the time charlie reader when i was looking into this case me that he developed a cold case unit within a sheriff's office and he had some season law enforcement officials investigators criminal profiler 's on this team and they were looking into the hopper road cold case. So i got an interview with those four men. And i wanted to know more about the well. I wanted to him about this evidence in the bottom of this. Well i wanted to know a named all the names that were contained in these witness statements had all four members of this cold case unit sitting in front of me interview inside the sheriff's office in all i got from this cold case. Unit was no comment. Every question was no comment. Have you been able to develop any type of motive Profile of the suspects no comment. So you know we were. At the end of the road jody's reporting on curtis and jennifer's murder also received some pushback from the pike county community do to his interactions with sheriff charlie reader at the time the people in pike county that scene jody's airing of the hopper room murders had a different perspective on mr bar because of the investigation. He did at the road warehouse. With mr reader. Mr reader had got on facebook in had a huge rant aimed at mr bar and i like to say they drink mr readers. Kool-aid people were saying. This guy's just down here to make the pike county sheriff's office in charlie reader look horrible and so i had a lot of people message unique saying i can't believe that your family would let that guy do a report on this case. And he's just a troublemaker. He isn't even from around here. And i would always buy back and say at least he cares. You know he's the only one that cares. He jody. I mean as with all my heart and i hope i can get it out without crying. It's he really does care about my family. He is in constant contact with me. He has helped me. He has listened to me cry. He's just it's aggravated as we are. He's a very caring person in he and he was he the gods. Jody bars reporting helped raise awareness about curtis and jennifer's murders. The police were seemingly unable to make any progress still today. No one's been arrested. Kirk james family have no more answers today than they had. When we rolled out of pike county for the last time and aired the the final broadcast into this case from your extensive investigation seems as though investigators know what might have happened to curtis and jennifer and who may have done it. Why do you think there has been an arrest. That's my question. I don't know why there hasn't been an arrest. I don't know the investigators just didn't have enough. I don't know what else was needed to finish investigation. You've got people in these statements telling stories that you fill out what happened when you know the people who were adelphi in these statements as having gone to this murder seeing committed these crimes. It came back home. So i don't know why. Or what or where. Investigators art at this point in time. This is where fifteen years down the road. No arrests so as far as families concern and i talked to them regularly still today i mean they they feel like this is a miscarriage of not even justice. They didn't get that far. It's just an incomplete investigation. You just hope one day you'll be able to finish the story because at this point two people are dead in. It appears that whoever did this is you know gotten away with murder but that won't be the case fangio. Montgomerie has anything to do with it. You're still on this mission to get answers to get justice and also to make sure that it doesn't happen to another family right. I got my kids up. Were they were a little bit. I had a little bit of time on my hands. So i started going full force with getting hopper case out into the public. Speaking i went to the prosecutor spoke with him a few times. I went to the sheriff's we had an interim sheriff. When mr reader got suspended we're told just helps coming and it never does and i noticed that it's always when i get really rowdy. Squeaky wheel gets the most grief. When i start squeaking. I'll get a phone call. Hey just hang on. I'm going to figure out and nothing happens in. We're tired of it. That's like the most emotional about is just feeling like nobody cares. And i can't imagine what curtains anyth- mom their mothers feel like. That's another thing that puts the fire under by ass. It's never it's not going to bring them back. You'll always have a hole in your heart from that. But i would love to see someone get arrested for curtis in jennifer's murder and get prosecuted and that we get justice more information and the case relevant photos. Follow us on instagram at. Kt underscores studios next week will be bringing you the season finale where full panel of contributors will answer listener questions. So please write us with anything you wanna know this week. Is your last chance to get the questions. In the piped-in massacre returned by county is executive produced by stephanie. Lie decker and me. Courtney armstrong editing and sound design by executive producer. Jared aston additional producing by jeff. Shane andrew becker and chris graves. The pike massacre returned to pay. County is a production of iheartradio and kt studios for more podcasts from iheartradio visit the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows do you wonder where your food comes from more. And more people to america's corn farmers work hard every day to grow a crop that you can be proud to serve your family. And they're doing it with an eye toward sustainability caring for water air soil and resources that fuel healthy families and more sustainable products. Take a look to find out how farmers in rural america work to make life better for all of us from cities to their rural communities learn more at nc g. dot com in cg a a commitment to the future in a rapidly changing world. People wonder more and more about where their food comes from. 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Episode 5- Air & Opportunity
"Still working from home. It's time to get a work from home. Chad that fits. I'm reese jones a designer at human scale out chairs of a built in mechanism that automatically adjust your body and let you work comfortably for a limited time. Use the code word. Hove h. o. M e to save twenty percent on work from home. Chaz at human scale dot com shipping is free. And you can try it for thirty days. If you don't love it send it back to us. And we'll pay for the ted at human scale dot com code word home to save twenty percent. Lost hills is a new podcast about a mystery and idyllic malibu california when a man goes camping with his two young daughters and doesn't make it home alive after his death the cops follow a crumb trail of clues arrest a survivalist. They find camping in the woods. That's when things get complicated. Hills is a shocking story that uncovers a dark truth about law enforcement in malibu california. Listen to lost hills on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts brought to you by discover- discover something brighter. Welcome to the pike and massacre a production of iheartradio and katie studios in april. Two thousand sixteen when eight members of the road and family were murdered in their homes. The media descended on the sleepy town of piped-in ohio clearly shaken after this morning's multiple homicides people in this small community being told to be on alert tonight as news of the unthinkable and gruesome killings spread. The small rural communities left reeling and rumors began swirling murder. Scenes are now advancing. The theory killings could be related to a drug cartel. Authorities aren't commenting on whether they had any potential suspects all the bad stuff in the big cities but the devil works in neverwhere but in the aftermath of the arrests of six members of the wagner family attention turns to the very people responsible for the investigation. There was this belief among almost everybody. I talk to about incompetence when it came to law enforcement in that county. There's nobody watching the watchers in these small communities in many cases that can lead to major corruption in the dark secrets of a once. Quiet town or slowly brought to light. There's been a lot of murder here that have not been fall. But if i say what. I think i could probably end up in the river. This is the pike massacre episode five air and opportunity in the days after the killings the road and murderers became an international headline and it was a sensational story. A series of murders multiple potential motives. All taking place in a small town in ohio. I'm courtney armstrong tv producer at studios. Where i work with stephanie. Decker and jeff shane. We've been following the case for a long time and through. The course of our investigation learned that the town of piked in ohio has its own story to tell journalists chef. Winkler wrote about the story for the website the outline. He told me about his impressions of the initial. Reporting coming out of piped-in it was a big media story for about two weeks. And you know everybody from all over came to cover it. All of the world and water people have been similarly executed in the middle of appalachia and no one knew what was going on. I mean i grew up in the ozarks in arkansas. And these are people. I feel familiar with you. Know when i go up to new york california. That's like a disneyland And it's a strange will. They're in place. These these areas in and folks like this are not bill wilderness to me in the same way that they worked the people who came down and covered the story. Originally you need to get a lot of talk of look at these people. Smoking in you know wearing cammo and you know a lot of gawky. Just the sort of quotes from sad sort of backwoods people how they're perceived And that's that's just not where i come from But i think the thing that stood out for me was just how human everyone was heighten resident. Angie montgomery shared her view of the media coverage with producer. Jeff shane how do you think pike like the pike county. Generally gus has been portrayed in the media. I don't think they've been very kind to us. I've a lot of reports where they call us an educated Hill billy just dumb and think we're doing they think We're a bunch of inbred. I've actually seen that in some reports and and it's bad while it's easy for some to view the town piped-in through this kind of provincial. Almost stereotypical lands. It's not what we found. We visited the area. It's pretty far removed from the big cities of ohio. It's about an hour and a half south from columbus an hour and a half east of cincinnati and just under thirty minutes from the ohio river which basically separates southern ohio from northeastern kentucky. There's a walmart. There's a restaurant. There used to be great dive bar that has since closed. I believe and look for the twenty. Two hundred residents piked in his home. Native barbara in jaffa actually spoke a bit about that when we were there pike considered a village and it is a small just a small little town that has a grocery store and a pizza shop and gas stations. And there's a tire shop. People sitting talk at the gas station wherever wherever they go they people know each other and they just sit and talk. You know at the tire shop. You're waiting for a oil and oil change or whatever you the sit there and chat with your neighbor. Whoever happens to come in you probably know who it is. You know somebody everywhere or you know somebody that knows somebody everywhere anywhere you go. I imagine that is probably like sometimes kind of enjoyable. And then other times it's probably pretty maddening. Yes sometimes people know. When when i spend the day in my pool or when when i skip a day if i if there's a day goes by i don't get my full next time i see someone else say. How come you weren't bull the other day so it's crazy the majority of people. We spoke with depicted piked in this way small town. Usa everyone knows everyone. Nobody ever locked their doors growing up but when we started to pull back the curtain it was clear. That piped-in harbored some dark secrets secrets. That didn't start with the rodents. it seems like there's two sides of piped-in which is one is like the blue collar hard workers who you know. Want to raise their families the right way and yet somehow something horrible still did happen to this town. I think it's like every town you're gonna that wherever you go. There's going to be the ugly part. pike. Dan how's it. Jeff spoke to stefan a former piped and resident. Who had recently left town. She shared barbara sentiments about the community. I want to ask you so you. Now you're in florida and you're away from piped-in and all of this but it still seems like it's very much a part of your dna right. I haven't been home since july a year before last since one thousand eighteen and i i just. I don't know if i'll ever really like go back and live there and her. You know if you look back through the history piked and you know. There's there's quite a bit of things that just happen you know. There's no explanation for get swept under the rug. I don't know. I think there's more evil there than the just what happened to those eight stephens remarks left us unsettled but when we followed up with investigative reporter bar. He seemed to corroborate her thoughts with some troubling stories. He had heard during his time covering the road. In case this was national news the day the day after a few days after it happened but you know as it typically happens with the new cycles the national folks move onto the next big story we were left with that and we will get emails and consequential our phone call about new information. Is there anything to know. And there was nothing to nose. Slow boss came to me and said hey. Can you go over and start digging into this and see. If there's anything at all that we could find out. I was in pike county a lot and i kept getting stories about other homicides in pike county i thought man if there were that many homicides in a county this small. There could be something here that we don't yet know it's taking a look through. His research showed to discovered that there have been at least three recent cases in by county involving multiple homicides cases like the january twenty sixteen murderers of candace newsom and her teenage daughter christina. They're both shot execution style in their home. Police finally did arrest. Newsome's neighbor for their murders and twenty nineteen neighbor christian are davis was indicted by a grand jury but did not plea nor has he been convicted. But there was plenty of chatter on social media. None of which can be confirmed mentioning the possibility of an accomplice to the murders still at large. Kansas new sister darla has even spoken publicly. She thinks that her sister and nieces murder may be related to the rodin's stating that. They ran in the same circles. What struck me about. Kansas and christina was just the fact the similarities between just the idea that in the middle of the night. These people were gunned down in the in their homes while they slept. Just it is striking before even any other details. Just hearing matt when you wrote. In case like whoa. That's weird fifteen minutes away. It's the same exact style of murder. Yes it was just so odd that you had that type of crime it happening in a place like that. Then in april twenty sixteen just weeks before the rodents were killed. Douglas edman and caroline and tomlinson were shot execution style in their home according to jodi bar. One detail of the crime struck a familiar chord double homicide four children left alive. This is very similar to the road. In case i mean again. It's a striking coincidence. That in the same area this is happening in the same month. You know the same month and year that the roads murdered this also happened. That's what led us down the path of even looking at these cases because we had heard that there were other people who were shot no the night execution style in their homes. And you're looking at the road in case and then you see these other cases in a county that small you start asking yourself what the hell is going on because this it doesn't make sense and this is happening there unless there is some sort of common denominator and it's still hard to believe today that there were these types of murders that took place in a county so small with so few people living in it. I mean you don't hear about the big cities and then you sit back and you wonder to yourself what is going on. I mean why is this happening. Fortunately police arrested. Douglas eastman's uncle charles. And his cousin james allen on suspicion of douglas and caroline's murder each faces twenty to fifty years or life in prison with enhanced sentencing for capital offenses also a possibility. The pair were indicted but have not pled or been convicted. The case is ongoing. According to investigators it was a drug related killing the motive for candace and christina newsome's murders however remains unclear but beyond the methods of these killings. There's another thing that jodi told us about the ties them altogether then. In some cases people get away with it for extended periods of time. Candice newsom enter a teenage daughter christina. It took four years. Four charged a neighbor of family friend with murder in that in four years and the alleged perpetrator in that case. Is what a next door neighbor. And it took four years the piece that together. It's just you wonder. Pike county if people were getting good at committing crimes particularly getting away with it. One case that remains unsolved is a two thousand and six murder of thirty four year. Old curtis francis and thirty year old jennifer forget kurt francis and jennifer et both shot and killed in their beds in their homes in the middle of the night. And you know what. I'm looking through these incident reports of these murders. Whoa this sounds very similar to the road case. Two people shot in their bed in their homes in the middle of the night. And i thought this is. This is what we need to pursue. But no one would talk. We could find out any information. All the search warrants were sealed at the courthouse. And there's absolutely no arrest ten years later. There's nothing here we are today. Still nothing we're gonna data and may never be solved and unfortunately there are other cases like that or that just did get the. We're going to take a quick break here. We'll be back in a moment. Look into your kids. A break from screens tribe. Tanna pinna is the only audio streaming service that combines thousands of podcast episodes audio books and music for kids three to twelve all in one place that means no unwanted ads and no screens giving you peace of mind while they listen. Keep your kids entertained from breakfast. 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It's the way that's why modus was honored by washington post as best place to buy a diamond check out reviews at moves diamonds dot com again. That's modus diamonds dot com. Let's take one quick step back for a minute and really look at the curtis francis and jennifer brigade case. That's the couple who was also shot in their home while they slept in two thousand and six. The only lived about fifteen minutes down the road from the road property. Fifteen minutes into this day. That case remains unsolved for. Angie montgomery curtis francis. Cousin remains a devastating memory without closure she spoke to jeff about it. I was shocked. That i had never even heard curtis jennifer's case because it's a pretty egregious that this happened and it unsolved and it just seems crazy that another in such a small community that something like this could happen again and so what i would love to do. Maybe it would be to like walk. Through kurt and johnny's case and kind of like explain who they were and any of the facts that you know about the case. Well i'm curtis very hard working good guy. Levy stanley loved hunting and animal and fishing and all that stuff and he would help anybody and he was very protective. That's one word to use to describe him. Very protective of the people we loved. Jimmy was the good girl is always taking care of others. I think they just Got messed up with the wrong people. The wrong people referring to our local drug dealers. Most of the crime that happens around here like Car tests and breaking and entering and things like that or is from drugs. There's a huge problem with opioids in methamphetamine. Here huge and that probably does play a part in every almost every murder. This happened probably in the past ten years. I think the people that killed my cousin lived. I think four or five minutes up the road from current ginny they were big drug dealers and Curtis didn't some money supposedly for marijuana. So you feel like you know who did it. I don't wanna be that person. But i'm i'm pretty blunt an upfront and the law enforcement. Here they have mishandled curtains genie's case from the rip when ngos law enforcement she's talking about the pike county sheriff's office the same agency heavily involved in conducting the rodent murder investigation in twenty sixteen. A plumber discovered a well that had seemed to have been mysteriously hidden with rocks and dirt. It was on a property that according to eyewitnesses was the last place. Curtis francis was seen on the night of his murder. The pike county sheriff's office was called into investigate officers lowered. Plumbers drained camera into the well and discovered what appeared to be burned clothes and a gun. It was a dirty at thirty six was at the bottom of the well in Pistol that was taken the night of the murders. And that's what they were. Shot with a thirty six curtin jenny with a potential murder weapon. Line just thirty feet down a well. The pike county sheriff's office decided to use a curious tactic to recover the gun. They called in a fire truck to pump water into the well to try. And push the firearm back up out of the well shaft so investigators could get their hands on it. It did not go as planned. They bleed water down the whale which in turn made the ground break puzzle the force of you know a fire hose can blow the skin off of So many did that. This is what they told us that happened when they did that. It busted the grand loose. The guns went down into the ground and that they don't have the money or the equipment to get them out so hired a guy to seal the well shut. He's a welder. He welded the well shut. And that was it. I think after this fiasco with the guns in the well when the guns were found and how they handled that situation in handled the possible murder weapon. I think they're ashamed and they should be. They took hardly the only hope. We have of any type of physical evidence in blue ridge. Another means basically. And nothing's been done with it with curtis jennifer's case go and cold andy decided to pursue the killers herself. I've spent years and years. I've got file after file after file of things i've done i've actually went and got names. I'm went and talk to people. Well i'm just going to be honest with you. I've done with the police. I've tried to do what the police haven't done. Which is talked to people get information you know get date get time. Get people talking you know. Oh you think. Kurt that day okay. Who was with him. What was his demeanor things like that. There's eyewitness statement and I've tried my best to get somebody or anybody just to listen. It's pretty cut and dry. You know i've had a few people out of state that are like retired homicide investigators and stuff look at the case and tell me that they can't for the life in them figure out why there hasn't been interesting for the town that we you know the size of our town. There's been a lot of murders here that have not been fault. It's ridiculous but if i say what. I think i could probably end up in the river. According to jodi bar angie's thoughts about the pike county sheriff's office shared by many in the community. The impression i got from the people. Pike county when i was working there covering the road murders. There was this belief among almost everybody. I talked to about incompetence when it came to law enforcement in that county in the lack of that sheriff's office ability to do a large scale murder investigation carry that through till prosecution and the man at the head of the pike. County sheriff's office is none other than sheriff charles reader. You've heard about share frito. Before he's the officer. Who stated he would stop at nothing to solve the rodents case. I've got a message for the killers. We will find you the family of the victims. We'll have justice one day to a lot of people watching these news. Conferences readers passionate campaign for justice was admirable but to journalists like jeff. Winkler readers determination belied his mishandling of the road. An investigation from the very start was the largest mass murderer In ohio's history and law enforcement beginning a local law enforcement was always comically inept to handle such a large and bloody incident. They just they were equipped to handle it from the very beginning the investigation and they bungled a lawn stuff. Rights on the get go was one all after another nearly a month. After the bodies were found sheriff reader had key pieces of evidence including the rodents mobile homes and automobiles moved to a warehouse in the nearby town of waverley. Jody bar was on the scene and told jeff what he saw. So i'm out of the warehouse where they moved these vehicles the equipment from all the road and properties where they moved the four vogel homes where these murders happened. There's a large fence around this huge outdoor lot and it is full of cars at atv's farm equipment backhoes huge trailers so as a reporter with at least a a small knowledge of the chain of custody of evidence. I know that with all this evidence. Just fifty yards away from me that you've got to have it's secured somehow there's gotta be a peace officer someone there with a gun and a badge swore swear an oath to uphold the laws and constitution that state of ohio. They're guarding that. That was not the case. Yes this it's largest in criminal nessin in the state's history right and the main evidence is not getting watched. There was no one in that parking lot watching that evidence so we drive up to a warehouse. And you're looking. There's nothing between you and hundreds of pieces of evidence except aaron opportunity if that doesn't raise a red flag. I don't think you're doing your job. I knew at that point in time that there was something to explore here because potentially this evidence if it's unguarded they can't establish a chain of custody. This entire education could be jeopardized. So that's why we took him. We took mike allen the former hamilton county district attorney. We took him to pike county. I call us that. Hey i want to take you to county. Here's what i found. I don't want to show you what found yet. I just want to take you to this. And you give me your impressions of what we see there through the eyes of a prosecutor. Here's mike allen. Jody was on this thing like white on rice. And i went up their wedding. And that's what i noticed too and you've got it seems to me. It was close to thirty forty. Maybe even fifty vehicles that had a fence around them. Well that's fine but it would've taken an old man like me about ten seconds to climb over that fence and take something out of one of those vehicles plant. something put something in one of the vehicles it just. It just was not done right. I mean anybody involved in launch worship from that first week that you're at the police academy you learned that you must preserve the evidence and you must preserve that chain of custody of the evidence. And i don't know what if anything they pulled out of any of those cars spot. If i were defending this case and they tried to introduce any of that evidence i i would be all over. I would move to the evidence excluded because it just was not properly secured Sogeti began preparing a report about the evidence fiasco for news station fox nineteen and cincinnati soon after jody and his crew were approached by sheriff charles reader who presented them with a curious offer. The sheriff's office declined to comment. But here is jody side of the story. He tried to make a deal with us to to not ear that that warehouse story and the deal was that he was going to give us his unfettered access. Where we can do this. First hundred hours with charlie reader after he learned the murders. If we wouldn't do this that always still sits me today. It pissed me off then. Because i'm like what. What do you think we are. We don't make deals masataka for an hour. You got in the car. We're what the hell does happen. Never have we ever experienced that. Let's stop here for another quick break. We'll be back in a moment to show you how easy it is to file a claim with geico. We hired a soap opera star. Gracious me my car has storm damage. And i had to file a claim. Could it possibly get worse when my claims team leave me for someone else. Someone less intense. No actually when you file a claim with geico you get your own dedicated claims team. Who promises to stay with you throughout the process. I've never known such loyalty. I can't wait for the second season. Geico great service without all the drama. Look staying healthy isn't easy watching your diet hitting the gym avoiding stress. A good night's rest helps boost your overall health and wellness and it couldn't be easier. The new sleep number three sixty smart pet is the only that effortlessly adjusts in response to both of you result. You wake up ready for anything. Proven quality sleep is life changing sleep and now the new queen sleep number three sixty five. Smart bet is only seventeen ninety nine. Save six hundred dollars. Only limited time to learn more go to sleepnumber dot com And june twenty nine thousand nine reader was indicted on eight felonies and misdemeanors. These felony charges are not directly related to the an investigation. He was accused of conflict of interest theft in office and tampering with evidence among other nefarious activities according to reports that are also allegedly stole cash seized from drug arrest to fund a gambling problem. Here's investigative journalist james filter. Yeah he had a gambling addiction and he decided all use my own off forces money to feed it Yeah Man in places like this. And i'm not gonna say it's necessarily a lack of journalistic outlets keeping tabs or whatever but there's no accountability. There's nobody watching the watchers in these small communities and in many cases that can lead to major corruption. It's definitely worth noting that sheriff reader has pleaded not to all of these charges however jody bar. It's just another surreal events too. It seems like a never ending. Bizarre story rear was shoulder to shoulder with mike. Dewine the now governor who is then the attorney general when when these murders happened they together. We're updating the nation about what happened here in in those days after the murders and where you're going is this real than you read. What the guy who alleged and you read what the grand jury handed up. And then you know you just have to assume if a grand jury is heading up a document that there's been an investigation conducted there have been facts gathered. A prosecutor has reviewed that i mean. Ev it's tampering in tampering with records. You're talking about a guy who led the sheriff's office and who for a time a moment in time when this first happened. These murders i happen. Who's also leading that investigation until the state came in and took it over. You just sit back ago. Let's see where this ends. I mean pike. County has been crazy ride ever since the end of april twenty sixteen. And it's still right now. You've got people awaiting trial base in the death penalty on eight murders. The sheriff indicted removed from office. It has been an absolutely crazy half a decade. They're still the people of pipes and are torn about cherif reader. He puts his town before him. He cared about pike county. Here's road family friend. Brittany talking to stephanie. Lie decker if it wasn't for him. He for charlie reader. They wouldn't of came close to even finding out about the wagner's honestly. That's my opinion. How come because he worked his ass off to find like that's all he did was investigate all of that what. He didn't like it in like he's done his job like he went in. You know like he was doing really well and bike. County like keeping the Getting the drugs off the streets and whatnot but he's still made effort a lot lot of effort into the rodent case. Charlie had dedicated himself to getting justice for the road and family and then he got booted not that long ago. Apparently he was taking the money from the road in case for gambling. But honestly i don't believe it because know i just don't believe that they just were finding reasons to get him out of office. Angie gumri holds a much different view of sheriff reader. He's blaming his gambling habits on because the the the rodent crime scenes have haunting so much. She couldn't sleep so he would go gamble charlie thirty years and he thinks gambling way before this happened. And that's just that just to me shows you his character. You know i'm gonna. I'm gonna use the death of eight people to try to smooth over but i'm still a money off my county and gambling and that is discussing to me i. I just think there's a lot of dirty deeds. That going around here. And i think that they will do anything making keep them covered up. Do we have a lot of crime here because the drugs do. We have a lot of Drug activity here. Yes way more than there was fifteen years ago. Is it safe here. I'm more scared of law enforcement than i am of the people that killed my cousin. You're afraid to say anything when in all reality. Yeah some things are out there that you think 'cause you go down a tunnel rabbit holes when when you talk to three hundred people like i have over the course of two and two years you find a lot of crap and it does take you down this rabbit hole. Is it true. You don't know if i got. It looks like something isn't right. County is it's beautiful. As far as landscape beautiful place were full farmers and just down to earth people. But there's a lot of dirty people here to and most of them are in power so with sheriff readers ethics being brought into question. Does this impact the charges brought against the wagner's. Here's jeff winkler again. I would assume the charges against reader the felonies and misdemeanors about being treated through corrupts when it came to both law enforcement and financial dealings. Yeah i would assume this is going to affect a lot of things in fact the Prosecutor for the titan area. Also just resigned. This makes you start thinking about everything that helped getting now. You're seeing these charges. And and these resignations ends. You know it doesn't speak well about finding any answers to this thing. Every answer we get about what happened to the road and seems to leave more questions. So how through. All of these other crimes did officials zero in. On the wagner's police received over eleven hundred tips. They conducted over five hundred interviews tested about seven hundred pieces of evidence that serve close to two hundred search warrants subpoenas and other things so this was something that was huge. So when you read these indictments They were talking about the wackos. Move even months before these murders happen. Four months to plan this out. I mean that's every day from four months. That's the full time. Job there hacking computers and surveillance cameras on this property. If we are to believe that the prosecution has alleged. this paints a very dark. Everybody has argued basically attacking then the community Accusing them of murdering those people on one day she was. I can't believe they just won't leave us alone. They just will not leave us alone. Were starting to get really worried that we're going to be arrested more to come next week. Massacre is executive produced by stephanie. Lie decker and me. Courtney armstrong editing and sound design by executive producer. Jared aston additional producing by jeff. Shane and andrew. Becker the pipe massacre is a production of iheartradio. Kt studios for more podcasts. From iheartradio visit the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows love can make you stupid so think smart about her dream. Diamond before you take the plunge visit mervyn's diamond importers with a huge selection of quality diamonds at fair prices. Movers diamond is the region's first choice. At mervyn's you'll receive a free diamond education and no pressure to buy and with a leading designer rings from tacori verragio. You know why. Movers was honored by washington. Post as best place to buy a diamond check. Our views at movers. Diamonds dot com again. That's moves diamond. Dot com mattress. Warehouse knows that buying a mattress can be tough with so many choices. Where do you start introducing bed match a patented diagnostic system. That determines your pressure points and recommends the mattresses that are best for your individual sleep needs and it's found only at mattress warehouse. Come try that match at a mattress warehouse near you. Visit sleep happens dot com for locations and get free next day delivery on select purchases man house peppers dot com.
Episode 7- 25 Miles South
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Welcome to the painting massacre a production of iheartradio and katie studios. There were always these rumors about michael moran and the women that he was around the circles he ran in this guy trafficking women all over the country from this little town. It's known as the epicenter of the opioid epidemic public knowledge. That was the crazy thing. Everybody knew the rumors and had known somebody that knew somebody that worked for him. Abors in it to michael ryan's name his cell phone number. I had all this remains that really impacted our area a lot of closure to these families who are told nothing by our local officials are local for this is the pike and massacre returned to pike county season. Two episode seven twenty five miles south. I'm courtney armstrong a television producer at kt studios with stephanie. Lie decker and jeff. Shane in episode five of this season. We explored the allegations of corruption and the subsequent arrest of pike county. Sheriff charlie reader but his story is just one of many that has illuminated alleged abuses of power perpetrated by those involved in southern. Ohio's criminal justice system so in this episode. We wanna focus on another case that has long affected a community. Just twenty five miles south of piked in in a town called portsmouth. Ohio in two thousand fifteen reporter named nicky blankenship began investigating rumors of human trafficking in the town like many small ohio. Town's portsmouth has a long rich history of industrial might preceding an era of rapid urban decay. Here's james pilcher. Reporter for local twelve news and cincinnati. Speaking with our producer. Chris graves the county seat of kyoto. County which right below pike county. So it's about thirty to forty five minutes out. The pike portsmouth has this. Rust belt burned out industrial field. There are half empty to empty factories in the middle of the city at one point. Us shoe had biggest plant there. And then obviously you know the global economy and we all know what happened to manufacturing in the mid west it still has a small profitable steel mill. Downtown it's barely hanging on. So kyle a city that was forgotten when the manufacturing industry began to disappear. Portsmouth was besieged by the drug trade nikki. Blankenship grew up in the area and saw the devastation firsthand. Your areas been really hit by the opiate crisis right. Yeah we call ourselves. Ground zero for the opioid epidemic. I've lived in ohio. Since nineteen eighty-four insider counties. Yeah lived here my whole life. I remember in highschool people around me. They would start out with small pain pills and oxycontin hit and it was no longer recreational drug use. That people were doing that parties. You're seeing people become addicted very very very quickly in two thousand eight. Nikki started writing about the issue for a local newspaper. I started out covering the drug epidemic. I was the first in the area to do stories on oxycontin looking at overdose rates in the area and started asking those questions from the coroner's office. About how many of these deaths that we're seeing are connected to opiate use and then started looking into komo's and we ended up shutting down over twenty three helmets inside a county nikki's reporting helps at a late on the areas drug problem but other elicit industries sprung up around it. Nikki was there to cover it all and twenty thirteen. I did a series that ran for months on prostitution and i was walking the streets with these growth. I also talked to you like parents of one then that we're working on the streets and talk to officers about the problem and local businesses about how it affected It was interesting. Because when i was doing these stories i started seeing a lot of names. Come up from these girls. The one mentioned most often was michael. Moran michael moran. He's in his mid seventies long-time defense attorney. You know the you is drug offenses those kinds of things yet. His own firm in portsmouth and at one point in the late two thousands got himself appointed as a city. Councilman of portsmouth is a very public person. So if there was a red cross danquah or something covering he would be there. So he's he's been around my whole career pretty much now. Rumors had been circulating about mike moran for years they stories about him being involved in prostitution prostitution god way back to the seventies. A lot of those stories are just about him. Hiring grows stance and Apple local parties and poker gangs. It was a secret the everyone choked about but no one really talked about and it was pretty common knowledge. I think. I mentioned like a red cross bank. I had to cover once. He was air with a girl known to be arrested for prostitution known to be arrested for drug abuse and she was there you could tell that. She was under the influence her behavior. She being very loud. I'm on a cell phone with this. And speaking very appropriately for the study and like just laughing with her at westerly councilman at the time. Actually wendover towards me jokingly elbow me in the side than said. There's mike at one of his girls. It's just always been known as nikki began exploring maran's ties to the local sex trade. The story grew much darker. I was interviewing some people who were in an inpatient treatment facility. And i found out that one of the women over the program was involved with a human trafficking program and so i started talking with her about human trafficking and she said that when women are arrested eleazar major moran has been going to see them in jail and charges and exchange floor doing sexual favors for him and working in prostitution nikki. Further explain the allegations levelled against moran by area. Women that the crux of what he does is. He offers his legal services to get these women out of jail and then put some under his employee. Yes he gets women out of gel and basically gets into his clutches. Our stories are the people are hired as dog walkers or as cleaners and and said are actually working in prostitution. An affidavit filed by the. Da would later support these accounts. James explained that this method of manipulation marks the distinction between prostitution and human trafficking from people will say oh well these women knew what they were doing. They were just trying to make money. These women were prostitutes. Well if you talk to the experts it went one step beyond that. It went into trafficking because some of those allegations moran was holding over them the fact that they were drug addicts even he would withhold their money or withhold. Their money wherewithal to get drunk so the statute says if you withhold or threatened to withhold money that women need for drugs or withhold. The drugs trafficking. 'cause it's coercion anytime you can prove coercion. It's traffic both in ohio law in federal. We're going to take a quick break here. We'll be back in a moment. Remember the saying if you love something. Set it free. If it doesn't come back it was never yours to begin with well when it comes to your identity. The folks at lifelock totally disagree all those nights working overtime. Saving up all that money paying off all that debt and now some identity thief wants to try and set it free. They say that's crazy talk and we agree. That's why lifelock by norton helps monitor your info and alert you to potential entity threats. And if you do become a victim a dedicated us-based specialist will be there to help fix it. No one can prevent all identity theft or monitor all transactions at all businesses but when identity thieves. Try to take what you were as you don't have to take it lying down. Save up to twenty five percent of your first year by going to lifelock dot com slash. Piped-in that's lifelock dot com slash biden for twenty five percent off. Shell brothers is now building new homes and ten unique communities across tax friendly coastal delaware with twelve models available to virtually tour you can discover shaw brothers unique curb appeal and sensational floor plans from the comfort of your own home. Spring is the perfect time to start planning your dream home to start exploring shall brothers has to offer visit us today at shell. Brothers dot com models currently open by appointment. Only some believe michael moran's reached goes farther than even human trafficking in two thousand thirteen. A portsmouth woman. They meghan lancaster disappeared. Michael moran has denied any involvement or responsibility in her disappearance. Additionally authorities have not brought any charges against him in the case at this time it's unclear whether they have questioned him in the matter. Megan is probably the case that is closest to my heart than that's mostly her sister-in-law catering catcher has screamed in screaming the screen on her behalf. My name is katie lancaster the sister-in-law amvest friend of megan lancaster who's been missing from soda counties since april third two thousand and thirteen who was Megan lancaster and how did you meet. We met at a called saturday county joint vocational school. We were taking calls mythology and she is a wonderful loving. Give the shirt off her back person that i know for a fact that this tragedy had to happen to anybody. She would have given everything she had to save the next person. Megan katie formed and unbreakable bond and soon became family members. I was spending about every night with megan. Pretty much donskoy. Megan would say my brother wants to take you on a day. So as to the okay. Okay like i'll take me for dinner so on and so forth and i did that. Well i never left. I was seventeen and we just hit it off and ellen rob katie and megan's brother jimmy were married in two thousand and five a few months later. Katie became pregnant soon after. Megan did as well. I went into labor august. Thirty first had my baby. September first like in the middle of the night and she had her baby november force. Though we were legitimately only you know a couple months. Apart in two thousand six meghan gave birth to a son named reese. Being a young single mother was tough but megan seem to have a bright future ahead of her. In sports she played she played to the fullest. She was there for her team. Always tearing everybody on the softball. She was the pitcher. She had a full ride scholarship to shawny state. I mean emmy nagin couldn't have been any smarter than what she was. Despite her intelligence and athleticism megan fell victim to the drug epidemic. That gripped the portsmouth area. She was that you know that she used drugs. That she used a needle. It was rough and i would tell her. I would say meagan. I would try to play. Both sides like her friend and her sister-in-law. I would say megan. You need to get helping. You need to change for you first and foremost what at the same time. You need to do it for rees because he needs in. Our answer was katie. Why change it. Now everybody's gonna look at me the same way. I'm never gonna live down the things i've done. I'm never be able to change that opinion that people have of me. She just couldn't pass the past. He you know of things that she felt people would never forgive. And then the point took over megan and it led to more years later a strange encounter with meghan would leave katie forever. Suspicious of one local man. Michael moran. I was in walmart with jeremy. And all of a sudden i see megan gump bouncing down. The i'm unlike what the l. was she wear. It was literally lingerie to be honest. Because you said. I'm here to get something for this party. I'm doing for moran. It's a bachelor party. And i'm dislike okay but again what what. Why are you in here in the. Is this what. I'm wearing to the party. And i'm like get whatever you're getting and get the heck out of here before you get arrested for indecent exposure. Can you describe april third. Twenty thirteen april third twenty. Thirteen meghan went missing that day. She was with her mom as she went to her. Mom's early in the morning said mom. I need to pay my insurance. Because she had been pulled over in cold war record been impounded for literally like sixty dollars in back child support or something so her mom followed her to portsmith nagin got in her mom's card imports with they wrote down to the bonding company. They paid her insurance then got back in her own car her mustang and they went their own ways later that day. Megan culture mother marcie to make arrangements to see her son. She said mom. I'll be there to stay the night with race but that night meghan never showed up in the next day march Get a hold over. Couldn't went buyer apartment. Her car wasn't there more stop. She's out running the streets or whatever you know run in the roads much more about it. Two days later on april fifth megan's car was found in the parking lot of a local fast food restaurant. She was nowhere to be found. What second about the car was the fact that it was up on the curb and megan would never have parked it like that. She especially she might pulled in if she was in a hurry again. God out and got something got right back in the car and left but she would have never pulled in there to leave it there like that inside. the car. police found megan's wallet and a small notebook that contains some suspicious entries. She left clues as to who she'd been working for which even up to yes. She left abors in it. They actually said dance. Four and michael. Maran's name his cell phone number and how much he paid her to dance. We know we have. This problem is missing and we know we have this problem with women. Hope if found dead in their cases never their murders of never been solved and despite that car set her mom talked to twenty thirteen. And there's Documents where they took it where they took. The car to evidence dated showing that and it was really katie. And megan's family that did all of the investigating and hire private investigators. They took get any cooperation from local police. So it's megan's case really. It's the only one that has really been made public so people can see exactly what these women have gone through and how these things have happened. My an was running a decades long sex trafficking operation. We're talking about some serious abuse of power. What are your thoughts on that. Abuse of power makes me completely fucking sick. Excuse my language. But i don't know how else to put. It makes me sick because you know. He's in this position to help people to help rebuild their lives if a vin in trouble once or twice drug charge whatever they send them to treatment. They do this. They do that but he takes it a step further and takes them like bison what they want courses them into these things that they've never had before and then boom. That's on drugs back to doing what they were doing. Back in trouble and to me. That is sickening. And there's no excuse for it. Do you think. Mike moran is involved in making spirits. I do believe. Michael moran is involved in megan's disappearance and i do believe that we will eventually tie mike moran q. megan's disappearance. Let's stop here for another quick break. We'll be back. In a moment we're making lower emission. Vehicles are priority reusable packaging our priority and carbon capture research to offset emissions our priority because earth is our priority at fedex. We knew sustainability. Means a lot to you and we feel the same way. Our goal is to be carbon neutral by two thousand fourteen. We call it priority earth fedex. Were now meets snacks. Hi everyone this is tamra bridget. And adrian habit and with host of sweat the details a brand new podcast from under obama and iheart radio. It's a show or women by women. Aim to spotlight leading voices in today's fitness industry. The bigger relationship the more fun you have with your team at south carolina and ah dallas slings. It wasn't so much of my teammates was more my sister's it was a sisterhood. That was our circle in nothing. Could break our circle or von. We're ready to shake up what it means to be a woman in sport. Today it's compensations fueled by the latest scientific research about personal fitness. Listen to sweat the details on the iheartradio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. What's it like to go through losing a family member or friend but not actually knowing what happened to them it's hell. I was talking to my mother-in-law about this today. You know people lose people all the time and they have a grave to somewhere they can go visit that they show that that person is there or they have ashes. They have for whatever. What have you. But we have a flipping sign with missing on it that we decorate and it is heartbreaking heart. Not to know whether she's hungry she's cold. She's meeting her to abuse or worse she's dead not to know that is so hope i see her. Mom susser daily on courtly. I see her. Pay me boy suffer very badly and i'm not saying that you know. He cries every day or no not saying. Here's a lot of questions we can't answer but i can guarantee you. I will stop talking. Answer surmount care if he's twenty five thirty thirty five forty Around that long. I'll fight until i can answer this questions for him. In an interview moran claimed that he only knew megan as a police informant who is tied to with drug case. He tried years back when asked about what may have happened to. Her moran believed that she may have been murdered though. He had no information to support his statement. It should be noted that there have been no other specific allegations tying moran to the disappearance of any other women nikki. Blankenship continued her investigation into human trafficking in portsmouth but her attempt to report on the areas missing women was met with some pushback. You kind of started this with this story. The seemed to have been local knowledge that no one was reporting on right when i was. I saying. Talk about the missing women. I was told that it didn't matter if there was proof it was. Can we talk about the missing women. Can i talk to their families. I was told nikki. Didn't let that stop her. So i i have seen these things personally insider cownie. We say that everyone's affected because if it's not your friend is or your family member. It's at least you went to school with everybody. Know somebody who's been affected by the drug epidemic and everybody knows somebody who has turned costitution so this is a pretty personal story for you. Yeah i spent highly my whole career. I like working on this and nobody was listening to their stories before or seeing them as even human. That really made me connect with a lot of these people in their stories. Living here my whole life these are my friends and my family members as well not specifically. I have so many friends overdose. I have so. Many inset have battled addiction and a lot of people i went to school with are are gone now. I have several friends from high school that ended up working in prostitution. People are human and yet they're seen as a prostitute or inadequate exactly and that makes people not really care what happens to them that makes people assume that they chose some lifestyle that is dangerous. Amex assume that they somehow are asking for that. Or whatever happens as a part of a lifestyle they chose and so they just turn a blind eye. And i think that's another thing that has made it so easy for to happen and the habit right in public as people see them as prostitutes addicts. Nikki didn't give up. Searching for proof linking michael moran to portsmith sex trafficking industry. I was at home. A lot At night just going through court documents than talking families because l. all these families we always made trusted so then for me it was like how do i get something more than a story from family member or even a girl. I need some proof. Finding some kind of document in two thousand seventeen. She got it. A man named mark eubanks reached out to her and pass along. A copy of a sworn affidavit filed by the drug enforcement agency mark eubanks. He had been reading my stories on human trafficking and on the heroine epidemic. And he smelled me. A copy of the silt. Affidavit was actually a part of his case and had told me history which was he has been arrested on charges and when he was arrested he was immediately taken a given lie detector tests about missing women at dead lemon. Mike moran human trafficking the affidavit lee out southern ohio drug task force and fbi that had been underway since twenty fifteen investigating michael moran and his ties to area sex trafficking. He's accused of trafficking women all over the country from new york and new jersey florida racketeering and compelling at partying prostitution and other thing. That is in the affidavit that he was working traffickers and there was a wiretap where they were able to hear some of the conversations between moran drug traffickers and he was getting drugs from these drug traffickers in order to provide to the females a he had or for him the athol david reciprocally talks about whom working web liberal judges and law enforcement and adult probation. Macy's things happen. Nikki finally had to prove she needed that validated. The stories told by portsmouth's most vulnerable women. But when she brought the document where editor she was shocked. Nato told me no. We're not going to publish. Michael moran would later be arrested and charged with eighteen. Felony counts including promoting prostitution and trafficking in persons He was released on a three hundred thousand dollar bond which was later revoked after he violated the terms of his agreement. He has pleaded not guilty to all charges and staunchly maintains his innocence. He is now under house arrest while he awaits trial. We'll bring you the second part of the michael moran story in episode nine but next week will be hearing from some of our regular contributors who will discuss updates from accused brother george wagner the force. Most recent pretrial hearing for more information on the case and relevant photos. Follow us on instagram at. Kt underscore studios the piped-in massacre. Returned by county is executive produced by stephanie. Lie decker and me. Courtney armstrong editing and sound design by executive producer. Jared aston additional producing by jeff. Shane andrew becker and chris graves. The pike massacre returned to pay. County is a production of iheartradio and katie studios for more podcasts. From iheartradio visit the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows a shell. Brothers is now building new homes in unique communities across tax friendly coastal delaware with twelve models available to virtually tour. You can discover shah unique curb appeal and sensational floor. Plans from the comfort of your own home. Spring is the perfect time to start planning your dream home to start exploring everything. Show others has to offer visit us today at shaw brothers dot com models currently open by appointment only been thinking about mcdonald's all day can't get it off my mind i can already tasted. Oh my mind on my mouth and my mouth ready for some mickey. D's deal is a deal for every moment at mcdonald's right now get to your favorites for just. Three fifty makes magic. Classic mcchicken a hot and spicy chicken or a juicy mcdonnell price and participation may vary cannot be combined with combo meal single item at regular price.
Episode 9- 25 Miles South Part 2
"Okay so you got to check out home sense. I've heard the deals are pretty amazing. Home sense has incredible prices on nice brand name stuff furniture rugs lights decor it's endless so for every room. Exactly it's different every time you go kind of like a treasure hunt. You never know what you'll find like a reclaimed wood table. Okay okay. you're right. I definitely have to check out home. Sense tell jeff you can take a virtual tour online. Get directions to the store at home. Sense dot com. I'm dr lori centers. I'm a psychology professor at yale. And i started to notice that a lot of my students all that happy so i created a new class longtime everybody to psychology and the good life. But it's not just my students who need to understand the science being and that's why we launched the happens lab so you can learn about too. Are you ready to feel happier. Head to iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or if you like to listen brought to you by ziprecruiter. The smartest way to hire. Welcome to the piped-in massacre production of iheartradio and katie studios. Somebody pretty important in ohio. Once asked to be why. I was so vested interested in this case in sex trafficking. I had to be honest with myself and i had to say when i first heard it. I didn't believe it. i didn't think it was widespread. And ever since then. It's been like these women aren't lying and they deserve all lavar. This is the pectin massacre return to pike county season. Two episode nine twenty five miles south part to. I'm courtney armstrong a television producer at katy studios with stephanie lie. Decker and jeff shane throughout the series we've examined abuses of power by authorities in ohio from law enforcement officials to city councilman investigative reporter. James pilcher drew a through line in the cases of pike. County sheriff charlie reader michael moran and the corruption that has infiltrated the southern ohio criminal justice system happening in these kinds of counties. So much either. Hey you had ineffectual or corrupt or both law enforcement right. You had a community or a culture of lawlessness that has descended on upon many places in rural america. And i think that's one of the reasons. Nobody's watching nobody cares to watch not to enhance or blow up importance of journalists. But if you don't have some kind of watchdog or Somebody holding officials accountable i. It doesn't always work in two thousand. Seventeen reported nikki. Blankenship uncovered an affidavit filed by the drug enforcement agency. The document detailed and fbi investigation into a portsmouth. Ohio lawyer and former city councilman michael moran. Its content supported stories. Nikki had long heard from area. Women who claimed that moran was involved in sexual digging and prostitution. It should be noted. That michael moran has strongly denied the allegations. So when i got this affidavit. I i mean they took it to my publisher my editor and they wanna prove that it was real it was authentic and all this was real and so i contacted private investigators that i knew had the look into the document further. I call people in court systems. That i knew and had them looking into it. I verified it over and over and over and ultimately they said that no we're not going to publish gave my letter of resignation that day and the said ethical differences. I left during the course of her reporting on sex trafficking and southern ohio. The issue had become personal for nikki. She often spoke with the families of portsmouth women that had fallen into prostitution and others whose family members had gone missing or been murdered after her resignation. Nikki had a crucial decision to make. I made a promise to the families little bit. But i promised these families and i shouldn't have as journalists thomas them but i did. I promise that i was going to scream until someone listened. So i felt like i was just repeatedly be shut down. I feel very helpless. I had to do something. I had to put it out there somewhere. And social media's. I knew even if only local families were able to see that i thought it might them in some way give them something and as a local journalist a lot of people locally were on my facebook page so i went ahead and i publish him. I went to sleep. Woke up the next morning. I had hundreds probably thousands of whites on the close already traits if not thousands of shares and messages for everyone. But it kinda went crazier than i expected to win. You saw the affidavit. What ran through your head. I was not a bit stunned and people. They want me to be stunned. But i wasn't. That's katie lancaster. Speaking with producer. Chris graves katie's best friend and sister-in-law megan lancaster went missing twenty thirteen. Katie alleges that megan worked for michael moran as a prostitute moran denies these allegations. What went through my head is. Oh my gosh like. I'm not the only one that sees this. You know like the fbi sees it like it was just so just a sense of relief. News of the affidavits spread. It soon. Caught the attention of cincinnati inquirer investigative editor. Bob strictly who had once worked for the newspaper. The portsmouth daily times initially was sports editor in portsmouth and was elevated to managing editor. And during my time there there were always these rumors about michael moran and the women that he was around in circles he he ran in and at the time early in my career it just seems so far fetched or smith if nothing else is a remote so a lot of things get tossed around without substantive evidence to back it up but it was quite surprising to receive or that there is something that could actually back this up. We got a copy of it ourselves and verified through various attorneys and around the council. And i went back and looked through notes that i take and i 'cause i never throw away notebook for my time. Working enforcement was like a lot of this tracks. And here's a government official saying so and it's in a sworn affidavit. So it's time for the chips allah table and get involved says too. Big of a story took more even. If it is a place that is not traditionally in an area where type paper covers it. I don't know if initiated a sense of responsibility as much as it triggered a pretty huge amount of guilt that motivated me to go pitch the story of our bosses despite paper being two and a half hours away from the subject that we were covering and luckily bosses were hospitable enough to allow us to explore that dig real deep in this story and turn over some rocks that needed to be turned over decades ago the puerta. Jane's kilter was writing for the inquirer at the time mob. Boss came to me. Because i was investigative reporter and said what do you think about this. You wanna take a look at this guy. Trafficking women all over the country from this little town. This burned out shell of a town. It's known as the epicenter of the opioid epidemic. Is he doing. This is it. Sure can we prove it. I really thought there was no way. There was no way this could be going on for so long and nobody did anything about the other interesting thing. Was that the paper got. This wouldn't publish it. I mean it's a federal affidavit and they still wouldn't publish it right. There in the hometown of mike moran picks it the big city newspaper from two hours away in cincinnati to come in and do this investigation now granted. We have the resources of usa today behind this but why not at that have been published or if the local newspaper had been truly and independent harm or an independent high with some of this stuff have gone on. I don't think so the first time i went to portsmouth. I didn't know what to expect. Nate partnered me fulltime with photographer. Who is also on the story is she and i were just shooting some footage out at the. Us shoe factory and there was graffiti. They're talking about a prostitution and drugs and things like that and this guy writes up on a bicycle san What you guys doing. We just kinda tell them so. By the way you know michael marine he said oh yeah that guy runs women point where like oh my god. Everybody in town knows guy on the street knows this guy. We didn't even ask. In twenty tilt to begin the difficult task of locating area women and asking them to open up to him about alleged experiences with michael moran yun of that year. I got the first woman to come forward and say. Here's exactly how he did it. And then by july we had one or two on the record and if these allegations proven true this guy was in the seat of power. He had these vulnerable women coming to him for help from a legal perspective. Any offering the other way out do this. And maybe i can get these charges less than for you. We heard that story over and over again. Do this and you won't go to jail. And how much of a worst abuse of power could there being. He started this story. not believing. this is possible. How does that make you feel. I'm six seven to forty. I looked like a cop. Got a big black tea. Where black fedora. I'm not warm and cuddly and people don't immediately warm up now. A good conversationalist by i was the government kind of accountability reporter and getting women to open up. Tell me these awful things to happen to them. That was eye opening and it was a new skill. I had to learn. I also had to be the reporter. I also had to be the objective reporter and the hard part was i also had the fact. Check all these women. I couldn't just take their word for my publications reputation was on the line. My reputation was on the line. I had to elite but be skeptical so when they would tell me all. I remember that. I got arrested in this particular place and i have to say okay. Where when what can you tell me. i'd have to go. Look up the court records all of those things and try to make sure that the timelines never since then it's been like i. You know these women are lying and they deserve boulevard. The more pilcher investigated the deeper ties into the portsmouth. Legal system grew. We reported several times. The women were saying that moran would brag about his relationship with former scioto county commonplace court judge william marshall now william marshal was one of the marshall boys the in his brother where the son of the former judge marshall in that county so they'll marshall took his dad's place as one of two commonplace courts judges which oversees all the serious cases and all the felonies and all the high end civil cases at a county level. It's an elected position. There were allegations that iran was guiding them to have relations or go to parties with judge william marshal. It should be noted that judge. William marshall has staunchly denied these allegations or any illicit ties to michael moran. Though a judge is mentioned in the affidavit marshall has repeatedly insisted he is not the judge referred to as working in collusion with moran and has not been charged in connection with that probe but the allegations made by area. Women didn't stop at a local judge. One of the women who did go on the record for that first story told us that she partied with the former police chief. She partied with former members of the police department. All because moran said it up these women came forward and said these guys used their position to either traffic me. One lady got sent up to chicago not knowing what she was getting into and then turned into a prostitute up there and then other women were talking about how the probation department is brother. The guy ran. The probation department was using his position to lessen her probation. That's how deep this went. One of the best lawyers in a politician and a sitting judge all possibly involved in this network. And that's when we knew we needed to get more women who had been through this experience to talk about what they'd been through the following audio interview the cincinnati enquirer did with women named heather boots. She claimed to have been a sex trafficking victim in portsmouth. She went on the record about her. Alleged association with michael moran many lives for decade because the judges is the corruption thorough. All of its in fact any any house in a sale. That will tell you everything like it's seek james. Pilcher began further exploring the megan lancaster case. Katie lancaster thanks very strongly. That michael moran lured meghan into this life. And it's his fault. She's dead or missing now whether he actually was directly involved all we know she left behind a heck of a lot of notes about oliver different liaisons and all the people she would go to for money she kept all of it. Katie founded chess copies of everything. We called every single number in that some people acknowledge yeah about sex and she became like a slew of women went missing or got killed. Were addicted prostitutes. Sex workers up in ross county in chillicothe iw which is two counties to the north. I mean we're talking. Does dozen more win so meghan. A lot of people theorize the meghan might have been wrapped up in something that got those women killed by. There's a lot of thought. And there's a lot of Theory or rumor that no that that was separate from what happened to her and what happened to her points back to possibly michael. Marine michael moran has denied any involvement or responsibility and meghan lancaster's disappearance moran has stated numerous times and interviews that the only involvement he had with making lancaster was in the case involving a former client. Where lancaster acted as an informant. He has said that he had no other relationship with her and that she did not work for him. Additionally authorities have not brought any charges against him in the case at this time it's unclear whether they have questioned him in the matter throughout twenty nineteen cincinnati inquirer published a series of articles by james pilcher and his colleagues about michael moran and his alleged ties to human trafficking. Everything that was in that affidavit. We reported it out as outrageous as it sounds allegations that he was running women all over the country. He was promising women drugs for sex. He had relationships with judges and with members of law enforcement all of it so those allegations all of this is in the federal document and yet they never moved on moran now the. Da says we ended all the stuff about human trafficking over the fbi. Says we're not going to comment on any potential ongoing investigation so you can see how frustrated we were with like okay. Why doesn't anybody move on him. What's going on here bob. Strictly shared pictures frustration. Very important thing that the press does when they're when it's done well is is to shine lights in you know and to offer a vehicle for those people stepping forward right. Do you find a sense of kind of responsibility of making sure. Those those voices are heard. What set this one apart was just the amount of women at stepped forward and said something about this to us talk to us about it and then also the apparatus that has to exist around a person michael moran for an operation as we reported on to exist in the first place a lot of people have turn their heads kinda damn ability of people who just turn the other way. Don't care about what's going on right in front of them in their communities more prevalent than maybe we all realised initially going to take a quick break. Here we'll be back in a moment. It's crazy how much we have to pay for outdated impersonal healthcare and even crazier that we all just accept it. It's time to face facts. Healthcare is backwards. 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Track down michael moran to get his side of the story moran vehemently denied all the allegations about being involved in any prostitution or sex trafficking rings up. Talk to michael moran three times at length and we. I talked to him i said. Are you a sex trafficker. People have said your sex trafficking it says here in this affidavit your sex trafficker what do you say to that. She tried to play the dumb country lawyer. The following is an audio recording from that interview. With michael moran. I don't even know. What a kimmy. The definition of a sex trafficker. So then we get all these women lined up. We come back home and say okay. We've got these women now saying that you're the guy and he says okay and then he was more angry. He would not go on camera with a second time during one conversation pilcher. S moran specifically about making. Lancaster moran denied being her pimp or being involved in any of that kind of activity but when james pilcher brought up the possible whereabouts of megan lancaster. He got a shocking response. Pilcher related the story to producer. Jeff shane a joke with me. Hey maybe she's in my basement. Maybe she's in my backyard. He thinks that the joke because he knows what the rumors are late. What you so. You asked him directly about it absolutely. I said you have anything to do with meghan lancaster and he said no. But you can check my basement. everybody else wants to. You can check out back. He said i. I've invited the cops in to take a look. Well i'm not going to surmise whether he's trying to get away with anything because i i don't know whether or not he had anything to do with her disappearance. I really don't are reporting. Didn't lead down those path. But he had this attitude that he thought he was smarter than you that he thought he was smarter than anybody. And i think what probably from my reporting in my history on all this is a. I read a lot of stuff about him and leading up to them and i'd see stories here and there but nobody but nikki blankenship kept adam. Nobody kept on him. And i can tell you that we never went away. The photographer person that i worked with was always in the courtroom blogging. Blogging him. That she was there was always taking pictures or getting video of him in action in the courtroom. We never went away. In twenty twenty authorities finally made their move phillies rated. The home of a well known lawyer suspected of running a national sex trafficking ring for years march twenty fifth state and local police raid. Michael moran's house with a search warrant in dave used. the attorney general was personally present for that enforcement. When you get the state attorney general showing up to serve a search warrant. You know that there are some very important people watching this. I'm looking at the story. I did and you can see. Iran is sitting on his porch in his stocking feet while police are searching his office. Slash house now. The thing you've got to remember too which is interesting is brick two story house. It sits on the corner right across from the courthouse and right across catty-cornered from the local prosecutor's office. So he literally can walk back and forth from his house. Slash office to the courtroom and walk right in front of the prosecutor's office. Just seven months later it all came crashing down for michael moran longtime defense lawyer and former city councilman has been arrested in an alleged sex trafficking operation friday october. Twenty third to twenty twenty state and local police teamed up in arrested. michael moran. this comes nearly seven years. After that initial affidavit issued by the da for nikki blankenship. It was a day that marks the culmination of years of tireless work and a victory for dozens of portsmouth women. When my father was arrested october twice he was arrested on the eighteen charges that included sex trafficking racketeering telling 'em promoting prostitution when that came out. That was a real exciting day for me. I was screaming iran screaming. Because i worry that no one was ever gonna check. No one was really ever gonna look into it. I really worry. I know that the cincinnati inquirer they had to do their own investigation but it was approximately a year before they started releasing things and when they release things. I still didn't know anything was ever going to happen. And so finally i was like okay. At least somebody's finally checking. Did it kind of validate journey started on. Yeah yeah it definitely did. There are also a lot of people who are saying. He's a great man. And i worried about that. I'm like did i make a mistake. Am i wrong. And there's no way. I have seen that i i was at this point. I'm like i have so much evidence. But still i can't. I don't want to hurt anyone's life. So yeah i was like okay. Something i it was valid and everything i have time for for a decade is olive yeah katie. Lancaster also felt a great sense of relief and was struck by the uncanny timing of miranda arrest. Maria was arrested october. Third twenty twenty the day before megan's thirty third birthday. I mean i was on my way to columbus not jumped out the damn car while it was moving. I couldn't speak. I couldn't talk. Couldn't tell anybody what was going on. I was just like oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Like i just couldn't believe it and four to happen the day that it did it was almost like a sense of okay now i know this is a god thing like this happened the day before. Megan's birthday almost eight years into it like it could not have come at a better time. It was like oh my gosh we did it. We got this far. Megan look what you have done like. I just wanted five minutes. Heard say that she's done. Let's stop here for another quick break. 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After his arrest michael moran appeared in court it was arraigned on october. Twenty six pled not guilty and then he posted a three hundred thousand dollar barn and was released five days after his duress he was also suspended by the state bar association so he's not allowed to practice law at all both from the bar perspective but also from his bond agreement but that didn't stop moran from trying to pull off an audacious legal maneuver so michael marina actually initially filed to defend himself in court. He had the intimate knowledge things that these women would never want to know publicly and he he could cross examine them on the witness stand so i actually talked to the attorney general about this and he said there's no way that we're going to let them do that. They strongly strongly objected. And moran is since Backed off of that. He hired attorney. It didn't take long for moran to violate his bond agreement. As it turns out moran represented somebody against the court order he represented somebody municipal court and file paperwork for somebody in municipal court in portsmouth. As part of his bond agreement he was supposed to have not represented anybody now state attorney general's under the direction of dave ios. The state attorney. General is prosecuting. This case against moran in association with a prosecutor. Shane team so when they got this day immediately filed with the court to have his bond agreement revoked. And i'll take anything seriously. And don't know i don't think the court is really pushing him to have to take any of this very serious either because they even though he violated the conditions of his bond instead of sending him back to jail. They believe on house arrest. Currently michael moran is awaiting trial though. A date has not been set. He continues to maintain his innocence. If these allegations proven true. This wasn't a one-off you did this many times. It was part of a network but this was a part of a repeating pattern of criminal activity. He's looking at seventy years or more. If convicted in their concurrent sentences. I think in small communities like in southern ohio and there's just been beaten with poverty and drug addiction and and so many things. I think that it is so easy to feel helpless and powerless against these kind of the lake. My night this can get by with us and do whatever they want. And i think people and areas prey on the community areas like this. I think i've always said that. All the way down to the drug epidemic. That people come in offering to help and really. They're just looking out. they can profit. And as a lot of wilson sheep's clothing at me very hard to trust your officials your local government your local law enforcement because those people are supposed to be there to help you. They promised to be there to help you end to fight these problems with you and really. They're taking advantage in and property as much as they possibly can also be issues that the rest of us after bottle every day. If megan was sitting in front of you right now what would you say to say to her again. We love you so much and we've missed you so bad and a little boy. He's wonderful boys. Doing grays doing great. Thanks just like you are key play scorch. it's like q. did you need to know. Great things of the rate changes that you've known saudi county and in ohio and in the world for that matter. Your story is reese london in what you've done great things and you will continue to do them because i will continue to for you and we love you and we miss you always journalists and their end up reporting played immensely important role in exposing the michael moran story however as we've progressed through this series. We've often wondered how our storytelling impacts the legacy of cases like the road and murders their families and the pike county community in general so in the next episode we delve into our societies current fascination with true crime stories and our role and responsibility in covering them. We were talking about the media machine and entertainment versus covering true crime. Their compelling stories. And i think we are seekers of truth. How did this happen. That's why we rubbernecking car accidents. I've interviewed crime victims for i mean the totality of my career. The flip side of you know hoping we help people give them an ear is also being really careful that we don't do further harm and that's the thing i worry about and i know we can do better more on that next time for more information on the case and relevant photos follow us on instagram. At kt underscore studios the pike and massacre. Returned by county is executive produced by stephanie. Lie decker and me. Courtney armstrong editing and sound design by executive producer. Jared aston additional producing by jeff. Shane andrew becker and chris graves the pike and massacre returned to pay. County is a production of iheartradio and kt studios for more podcasts from iheartradio visit the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows shell brothers is now building new homes in ten unique communities across tax friendly coastal delaware with twelve models available to virtually tour you can discover shaw brothers unique curb appeal and sensational floor plans from the comfort of your own home. Spring is the perfect time to start planning your dream home to start exploring everything. Shop brothers has to offer visit us today. At shaw brothers dot com models currently open by appointment only switching to gyco is a good idea especially when you consider everything first off gyco makes it easy to switch. They have licensed agents available twenty four seven online or over the phone. If it's so easy you might start thinking everything is easy even big wave surfing and it's not as actually quite difficult. Well if you switch to geico you could save hundreds on car insurance and you can keep saving by bundling your motorcycle. Bow and rv plus your home renter's insurance but saving money might lead you to make some questionable purchases like a twenty foot feather boa and do you know how hard it is to clean a twenty foot. Feather boa well. They do have an industry leading mobile app. You can use to pay your bill. Filer manage a claim or at a new driver when life gets a little easier. It makes it too confident and you start calling everyone. Ace your better well. Geico has a ninety seven percents customer satisfaction rating and has been saving people money for eighty five years. It's hard to beat that but switch to geico. It's obviously a good idea.
Episode 4- The Houses on Union Hill Road
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It is this is orchestrated if you orchestrate something that goes to planning everybody understands and their position in the orchestra they understand what notes to hit. They have a specific purpose. And the job they know the area and they know the pray they know the nature of these individuals. Hell they know where their homes are. They know were security cameras. Are they know what they have to defeat to get past these whether it'd be locked timing wilted the bed. Tom they know all this. That's why this is so shocking. When you begin to think about it is the level of orchestration involved. A pull this thing off road. This is the painted massacre returned to pay county season two episode for the houses on union hill road. I'm courtney armstrong television producer at katy studios with stephanie. Lie decker and jeff. Shane hundred investigators and police officers have contributed so far to this ongoing investigation. Today they say they received eight hundred. Eighty three tips conducted. Four hundred sixty five interviews did thirty eight search warrants and sixty cyber extractions. I'll question this has been by far the longest most complex and labor intensive investigation. The ohio attorney general's office has ever undertake as investigator. I've worked Any number of mass killings. i've never covered these just. That's coroner distinguished professor and criminal forensics expert joseph morgan. It is not a normal thing to walk into. House and symbol and mass. It's something that waters only apocalyptic from the outset. The sheer magnitude of the case posed huge investigative hurdles for the pike. County sheriff's office johnny. It's it's a rural county. Of course they don't have a lot of money. It's not judgment just of when you begin to think about those detectives that were from this little area. They are pipe from pike. County sheriff's department this something they'd never worn witness to it leads to limitations in your ability to processing so it is Herculean under undertaking for for these investigators and less than a month into the investigation authorities made would seem to many leg. An unusual decision has already begun to move the homes where eight members of the road and family were found shot to death last month in pike. County ohio the judge has authorized his people to load the four mobile homes and transport them about four and a half miles north to the investigation command center in waverly to preserve the crime seeds while we talked with joseph morgan. We looked over aerial photos of the crime scenes before the mobile homes were removed. They're all we have to go on as no crime scene photos have been released. There's a mockup. Showing the placement of the properties on our instagram. The first few images were of the property where chris. Senior and frankie rodents trailers were located. Jeff got morgan thoughts on pike counties relocation strategy looking at these aerial photos while we're talking about it. What really struck me. They lived in trailers but these look more like homes that are in the ground. That aren't going anywhere to me. That the crazy is the most important part and moving them. That seems like that would not be so easy after the termination of this case. And when it's finally these cases are all adjudicated. I'm gonna want to study this from a crime scene perspective. Because i want to learn how did this i wanna teach this because if they did it effectively. It's something that somebody could write an academic paper on. I mean it's it's that big a deal. If you look at this image you would have to detach that mobile home completely. And it's probably a foundational structure so it's it's at least has a cinderblock foundation that is built around the thing so that they can build a stick build a structure around it and then attach it to the mobile home. Just the sheer logistics of detaching this thing from the ground. I've certainly you know never worked a case that involved. Multiple mobile homes that where people had been dwelling for years that are plumbed and have electricity run to them and have foundations and that they're just lifted up the crowning taken from their this monumental task and order silicate this. You gotta make sure that nothing is going to be disrupted in transit because everything is relative relative. There's distance relationships. There's time relationships because things degrade change. We've got bullet holes. Well this is not like going into a static home. It's moving back and forth as it's going down the road. So it's shifting well what is it shifts just a few millimeters relative to if you're trying to pull trajectories bullets so to that end. It really gives you pause to think. Why was it that you wanted to move it from this location. By any measure investigating the road and murders was a massive undertaking. Eight bodies spread out across four bloody crime scenes and soon after the victims were found ohio bureau of criminal investigation and fbi agents were called in to help lead the charge. But according to. Joseph morgan before the rodents mobile homes were moved. It was imperative that authorities analyze the scenes in their original state's viewing that body in the context and environment which is found. That's where the tale is told at that point and you have to allow the body to tell you. That story made me personal space. Now they'll say in bed composition. Someone walked up on them when they were unaware. Maybe they were sleeping at close range like that a single round into the back of their head. Well i don't want to move manipulate the body until it's tom to remove it from scene after spending measured and examined for things like postal changes and documented foot graphically. I don't change the body at all. I want to see what the body is telling me. Current the bodies lead biggest piece of evidence that you have because that is obviously in this case the target of what individuals were strived debts where the most force is brought to bear this where the muslim violence takes place. That's where you have the most transference it's gonna take place from one. Object to the body of from one body to another body the violence perpetrated by the alleged. Assailant's the wagner is in the road in case was unusually brutal thirty two gunshot wounds between eight victims. All the one shot in the head and the evidence collected on the scene and in the lab will all contribute to chronicling what transpired on the night of april twenty. first twenty. sixteen in light of jack. wagner's plea deal will be integral for the prosecution's case against the other three wagner's murders exactly five years. After the road and murders in pike county one of four defendants jake wagner is pleading guilty to all counts in exchange. He avoids the death penalty and will serve multiple life sentences with no chance of parole his father mother and brother are similarly charged and pleaded not guilty to help them avoid a possible death sentence. Prosecutors say jake will testify against them. I spoke with joseph mckellar about how jake wagner's plea will impact upcoming trials unique understand the larger narrative. Here he's now on the outside jacobs on the outside. He's no longer for all intents and purposes part of the family. He is going to be a state's witness at this time. So you're going to have defense counsel. They want to prevent the state from validating. Anything that this young man has to say. So jake's alrighty pled guilty. He's already implicated his family. Why is how these murders happened important. Now they want to try to either put all the blame on him. Say that are our defendants had nothing to do with us whatsoever. It's all him and he suddenly got a guilty conscience. Had you know what we say a come to jesus moment inside roll over on everything and it's all him all bomb sell. It doesn't matter what we think what's gonna matter is what the jury thinks. Moving forward at the end of the day everybody else will be able to draw their conclusions. But how in the world is this going to be presented to the jerry. You're gonna need play bill to keep up with all of the all of various permutations here because if you got you know four different parties here. I'm including jake in this and what he's saying to to prosecution you've got four different parties here That are giving you different scenarios. It's gonna be tasked to someone to try to make sense of all this and that someone that that that group of people are going to be the jury it will be explained before the court and people in that jury box and before the judge they will say. Well we know that at this hour on the twenty first this occurred and then moving forward this is when the bodies were found will what occurred between these moments in top studying the aerial photos of the crime scenes. Stephanie put into perspective just how overwhelming task it is putting the story of the road murders together to seeing these photos now firsthand walking through them with you only offers up more questions for us not a small operation. This was huge. The volume of this case is one of the striking things for me. I think you know out. With every case that i cover. I don't recall case like this. That's blood sub and it is spread far and wide. There's so many pieces that have to be put into place this year. Leapfrogging from this bloodbath to another bloodbath. The forensics alone or highly complicated just from a geographic distribution standpoint is like a beautiful mirror. Okay that someone had hanging on the wall and somebody with specific intent went in and destroyed this mirror and crashed it down into thousands and thousands of pieces. And then is your job to make sense of these broken pieces and try to put it back together not necessarily to make it usable again but to try to understand what happened what affected its destruction. To what degree is it destroyed. What what instrumentality may have destroyed. And what the timing was like on this. How long has this thing been destroyed. Spoke with joseph morgan about the importance of time line. Multiple homicide case. Tomlin is essential here because you know we just have these bits and pieces coming out about the order. Ah death. they're going to be really focused on the body and changes in the body and traumas the bodies sustained. And all the things i think that. That's that's something that's critical as we studied the aerial images of the crime scenes along with the autopsy reports. Morgan tried to piece together the chronology for us because his body was in a more advanced state of decomposition. It's been speculated that victim. Chris road and senior was the killer's first victim. So we started by looking at the layout of his trailer. Joseph pointed out could have been the killers way in here. He is talking to stephanie. The a poor parking pad right there. And there's like assad walk that extends up to. that's a ramp. yeah walking up into this little walkway into the porch area and therefore into the front door. There's this entire runway which was likely where the assailants entered cracked. So that brings me to this point. How many locks would have had to have been defeated on that door in order to gain entrance. And how can you gain interest to the door without making noise but if you're going into that porch it also speaks to the fact that they did have multiple trained attack. Dogs surveilling this area. Why didn't those attack dogs attack. Because there's a quite a bit of runway for you to get up to that porch and a possible that they knocked on the door. They knew one another. They family was very close or had very close bonds angelo. Add no. is there a woman imam. So wouldn't you go to the door a little more. Even if you were at odds if the dads for example christina and maybe billy wagner odds over something. We've heard this but you know his wife is there and july. Oh what's happening more likely to open your door. It seems implausible that they would draw them to the door. You know it makes me. It really makes me think. Why would they be in the bedroom. And how did the perpetrators get into the bedroom without these guys know that tells me that maybe there was a hidden key. It does make sense about perhaps a hidden key. Certainly we don't know this is fat. This is speculation but we do know that they were running serious surveillance on the family. They have cameras at each of the locations in the homes. Really doing some top level surveillance on the family and jake. The youngest son was there quite a bit because he was sharing custody with the youngest daughter and for a long period of time they would tick tock between homes you get to know the location in the area very very. Well just speculated about why. Chris senior may have been targeted. I he apparently was identified as primary target or at least as a primary threat in our language. And you hear this in the news media quite a bit on television shows that there really is truly something that is to his. Kill chris seniors case. He shot nine times. What do you make of the brutality of that. It kind of begs that question. Well either you view that person as a threat. Maybe see that they're going to charge you. Maybe you have an awareness of what their potential for violences and that you want to prevent that. There's evidence that he attempted or reacted at least to the point where he raised his arm. He's taken one round in his right forearm but this is the part that is very very curious. It says that around pass through a door. I don't know which door he was in a bedroom. Maybe it was the door to his bedroom. And maybe he was hiding behind a door but then it goes on to say that that round intern passed into his body. So we're we're learning just in the sequencing with With the senior among among the road and clan that there was a lot of firepower that was essentially directed toward him. You know he resided in a trailer with gary. So we can samoa's that christina was first then gary would have had to been second because they occupy the same essentially saying space. They had separate bedrooms. But gary didn't receive the same amount of attention that christina. He was only shot three times but these three gunshot wounds. He sustained two or to the head. And it's kind of nonspecific in the descriptors. We know that one was in the face and this is kind of a theme that that you see running through the nature of all of these killings and off on that kind of interesting because anytime someone has shot an individual in the face from a profile standpoint that gives you the attitude that the individual is looking at them. That's year when their fire upon. We're going to take a quick break here. 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That's modus diamond dot com Victims christine and gary rodents crime scene potentially held cachet of clues for investigators. We know that the scene in particular was very bloody. Okay because we know that. Chris senior was shot multiple tom so when we examine examined scene that is a treasure trove of evidence collection there. If someone has tried to clean themselves clean. Their hands washed out a weapon. Maybe try to repair an injury of their own. You've got evidence sitting in the drain and this is something they would have had to have accounted for so all of the drain traps everything within there would have had to have been secured. What if got flushed down the toilet. Well you know because now that's gonna go into septic tank since this is so isolated. They're not gonna be city sewer system logistically. It's a frigging nightmare. I mean for a crime scene person. It is an absolute nightmare. You have to make sure that all of your bases are are covered. Outside chris boden senior's home was potentially even more evidence. Here comes the big part that portrait there which is a point of egress. You need to keep that in mind. That is a point through which somebody entered this damn dwelling. Just let that sink in for a second. That's gotta be detached and moved now. It looks like they have a concrete slab parking area. This actually very nice. It's got a trailer truck. A great truck in a small car that sparked right by the sidewalk in the sidewalk is poured. Concrete is well. that's all going to contain potential evidence. We know that that is an important piece of. It's almost footprint right. That has so much potential dna or blood or something that seeps into it potentially blood evidence more than likely they traipse out of that house this would have required a herculean effort upon the authorities. There as we mentioned crime scene photos were never released there. Were also very few ground photos of the surrounding area because the entire road was closed to the public however the aerial shots provide valuable insight into the crime scenes. Most likely the killers then moved to the trailer. Just a few hundred yards away. Where frankie roden and his fiancee. Hannah gilliam were living with frankie's toddler and the couple of six month. Old baby boy. I'd always pictured it much further apart from one another. It looks as though and again this is an aerial shot. You could on foot run from chris. Seniors home to frankie where he and hannah where sleeping making it up to two franken. Hannah would be. That's no effort whatsoever. If you've been surveilling the area and keeping you know detailed notes on movements of people in this sort of thing. It wouldn't be a problem at all in order to facilitate that. The proximity of the homes most likely forced the killers to utilize some critical tools. Silencers we know from courtroom testimony that a homemade silencer was found at a property owned by the wagner's having silencers when these crime scenes are so close together. Seems like they would have to and it does sound as though from what. We've researched that frankie road in and his fiancee hannah gilly in their three year. Old son frankie's three year old son. They were sleeping at the time. Absolutely and the other thing is this is not something that you would do in the dark. You want to make sure. Because you're you're going there to specifically execute these people to kill them. You wanna make sure that you're going to shoot them so unless you you've got flashlights. In your hand which they bear will might have. You're gonna flip the switch soon as you walk through the door lights which is right there. The element of surprise allowed the killers to get with an intimate range of their victims was a gunshot wound. You don't think about that as being intimate but if you start scoring headshots particularly multiple headshots you know that there is kind of a close approximation of the perpetrator to the victim and that particular case so it tells a different tale and would gunshot wants to head particularly multiple ones. You want to think about well. Where are they shot in the head if it is an execution style to the back of the head. That's one thing that. I'm not saying that the person is being humane this doing it but they want it over with and done as quickly as possible when you start talking about shooting people in the face. This is something different particularly if it's multiple tops first off the individual has the potential to visualize you doing and you're visualizing them that brings it up to another level execution style means from the back of the head so you don't have make eye contact with your victim which makes sense classic interpretation of it like when i'm talking to somebody a fellow death investigator fellow friends excise person if i say it was an execution style shooting automatically for me. I would assume for most of my colleagues. We're gonna think okay. They're probably shot in the oxford. Which if you put your hand you know your fingers on the side of your head and you fill it big not the back of your skull. That's your oxford where you're sara bellum dwells where your promo brain dwells in there's mercy there's mercy in docs foot back there you know why there's mercy because if you fire into that area it's almost an instantaneous but if you start shooting people all over the body and you do it multiple toms and particularly if you approach and then shoot them in the face. There's no guarantee they're dead instantly. No no guarantee whatsoever. According to morgan the killers likely traveled a mile and a half up the road. Where victims dina. Chris junior and hannah road and lift. I can't imagine that dana hoses the same threat level. Say for instance as chris senior chris pretty robust county guy. Big guy worked outdoors with cars and whatnot. He's familiar with weapons. I would imagine he could pose a threat but this mother living in her trailer with her kids. What threat did she did. She pose is she. The focus of a tremendous amount of anger. Well when you combine the fact that they have committed overkill here with the sheeting her in her skull so many times and then they moved to shoot her in a manner in which could potentially disfigure her the seems to me almost a messaging that sent out in the people that are portrayed s purpose to them. We have the other hanna. And what kind of person could stand over a young woman and fire round into her face while staring at her. And her baby you're visualizing this. This is not something that's done in abstract. You're not a long long distance away. Your up close and personal and these rooms are there. You know it's. It's not the taj mahal here. I mean i. It's not rural tiny but they're pretty small You're gonna be on top of her when you're doing this. Jeff wondered how the brutal precision xtra by the killers could play into the prosecution's case. Does that come into play. They shoot another holding her baby twice in the head. does that make it worse than shooting her once. This is a prosecutors during. If you're talking about narrative right it takes so savagery on the part of an individual to do this. He look at chris. Junior who's in dwelling this place. He's hey shot is kind of nonspecific. We do know that that he was actually shot Multiple tom's in the head and he's sixteen year old kid. What what threat does does he pose. Well why would you take the life of the sixteen year old boy there. I don't. I don't understand that i think at the end of the day when we analyze all of these these shootings. There's thread. obviously. I've talked about about the overkill that the goes into all of this. But there's a a proximal issue here to that. That is that you're getting into the space of these victims. Then it's likely the killers targeted their last victim. Kenneth wrote in who is sleeping a trailer a few miles away on left fork road however kenneth crime scene was strikingly different from the other road victims. This is the end the big finale and they shoot this gun the i now you know. This idea that he shot in the ogden goes to another level of violence here literally. Did he see this coming at that. Moment top then to kind of you know. Put the icing on the cake. Mean you drop dollar bills around again. That goes to motive. You're you're trying to put the police on the sense that this is something other than what it appears i've worked cartel related homicides with the There's messaging that goes along with the sort of thing but again. Is that what they were going for. This is a different type of staging. You're not trying to mitigate the idea that it's something other than homicide still homicide you're trying to to the motivation behind outside to put them offset and that's a very very interesting narrative and you begin to think about it and your professional experience. Have you ever heard of a family that operates as a foursome to different locations in this manner. That's pretty uncommon. I would assume never a good working to major metropolitan areas as coroner medical tannin investigator. I've never encountered it. The syrup our bertie of the road and murders will be a critical part of the story but one element in particular will be crucial to convince the jury. Jeff joseph morgan about it. I'm just curious like how the prosecutors were gonna wanna talk about question of whether or not the victim for aware of their life was going to add end and how that might impact for jury going to be critical for the prosecutor to be able to the information that the investigators had developed in the field working these scenes in particular the time. These little markers and tom along the way how well were. They able to document the actions that took place within the environment. If they can get that information out into open court than they'll begin to talk about. I can envision closing statement in particular prosecutor. Stand up there and say they took their time. We have them document is being in this location. This particular time and use jury have to consider this. What were they saying. What were they doing while they were in there. Did these people know that they were about to die. And of course the prosecutor. It's their job to put this horrible. It is but the jury members in the place of the victims to help them understand. Because everybody's been in fear of their life the end of their life at some point. Tom so you have to make that almost. You can't do it but you wanna make it. It's almost tactile as you possibly can. So the people in the jury. They feel it stirring within their soul where they understand okay. These people were at a critical mass and they knew that it was about to happen. What would i do in that moment. Tom realized that malign was actually coming to an end. Let's stop here for another quick break. We'll be back in a moment in the land of diamonds. 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That's diamonds dot com. I think that even a trained assassin would find it foolhardy to go about trying to kill eight people on same evening covering this much territory there too many things. That can go wrong unless you have somebody watching your back. You're going to have to have a person that potentially the lookout transporter you're going to have to have somebody that can muscle control the intended victims. And then you have to have shooter. And ideally you would. In fact need somebody. That's doing overall coordination because this logistically. It's a daunting task. I think to say the very least you know in this particular case There are too many variables involved. But even after you klan perpetrators are not crime scene. Investigators they don't think like crops and investigators. They're so very rare most of the cases that that we work as investigators. There is a huge opportunity where these people to screw up long white to leave something behind that is a direct indicator of their involvement or presence When these deaths occurred and in this case what was left behind included three young children. According to morgan despaired lives go directly to the heart of the presiding motive of the case the singular driver behind us. It has to those those children Hold value the attachment to the children as the driver. When you get overkill in in my experience at least it goes to a lot of anger it goes to a lot of passion and you'll see it and domestics you go to all the trouble but yet easily these three babies alive and you have to you to kind of question this and it has an investigator down a specific direction who would attach value to the shoulder to see. Continue to live and still exists among the land of the living of their cam. When accused killers billy angela george wagner had to trial prosecutors will paint them as the main characters in a gruesome multi-layered horror story. Good prosecutors are great storytellers. That's their heartbeat. If they are affected they take all these little pieces of evidence. All the stuff we've been talking about. And they tighten that thing down and they walk into the courtroom and they start talking about mamas and they start talking about babies and they start talking about these familial ties and it will be powerful in court. It will be very powerful. And i can. I can almost see it now. Envisioning right now when he starts talking about this and you can that jury. They'll be a slow turn of their his toward the defendant's table. No matter who's on trial up particular. Tom as they will talk about mama and they will talk about those babies and they're gonna stare that individual town. They don't think who in the hills in the courtroom with us. Right now while we wait to see if billy angela and george wagner will head to trial there's one man intimately involved in the road murder case who has already seen his day in court. Tie county sheriff charles reader after the road murders. He became front and center of all of the coverage. She was giving information alongside the ohio. Attorney general at that time people were looking to him for information and they wanted reader along with the state of ohio to solve these murders from all of the coverage that went into pike county in the months after these murders. Charlie reader was a central figure in that but sheriff reader had a quick fall from grace in june twenty nineteen he was indicted on eight felonies and misdemeanors targes included theft in office and tampering with evidence that was huge news not only because of his involvement in the road murderers. But i mean you're talking about the shitting sheriff. The high sheriff. Pike county is now the subject of an investigation evidence of misconduct evidence of corruption by a politician. You're going man. I don't know what may act with this. on march. twenty four th twenty twenty one. Sheriff reader appeared in court to face. The charges leveled against him. Guilty verdict would have major consequences. If you're a defense attorney working on this case and the sheriff of the county gets indicted. I would think you know. If you're a wagner attorney you look to have a field day with that that might be part of your defense more on that next time for more information on the case and relevant photos. Follow us on instagram at kt underscore studios the peyton massacre. Returned by county is executive produced by stephanie. Lie decker and me. Courtney armstrong editing and sound design by executive producer. Jared aston additional producing by jeff. Shane andrew becker and chris graves the pike and massacre return to pay. County is a production of iheartradio. Kt studios for more podcasts. From iheartradio visit the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to. Your favorite shows management concepts delivers the training federal employees need for every stage of their career over two hundred. Seventy five courses taught online and in classrooms by expert instructors new leadership and acquisition courses available for twenty twenty one management concepts dot com. Love can make you stupid so think smart about her dream diamond before you take the plunge visit moves. Diamond importers with a huge selection of quality diamonds at fair prices moves. Diamond is the region's first choice. At mervyn's you'll receive a free diamond education and no pressure to buy and leading designer rings from tacori verragio. You'll know why. Movers was honored by washington. Post as best place to buy diamond. Check our reviews at movers. Diamond dot com again. That's moves diamond dot com.
The Piketon Massacre
"True crime brewery contains disturbing content related to real life crimes. Medical information is opinion based on facts of a crime and should not be interpreted as medical advice or treatment listener. Discretion is advised welcomed. True crime brewery. I'm jill and i'm dick. In the early morning of april twenty second two thousand sixteen relatives of the rodent family in pike county. Ohio began to discover family. Members brutally killed in their own homes in all eight members of the rodent family were murdered including one minor. Sixteen year old christopher roden junior all of the victims had been shot to death. Three young children including a newborn infant were left alive. Investigators determined early on that. The killings were planned and carried out by at least two perpetrators who knew the family well but it took over two years to make any arrests. This crime scene investigation is the most extensive in the history of the state of ohio. Evidence of cockfighting and marijuana growth operations were found at some of the crime scenes but the motive may have been something as simple as a child custody dispute. Join us at the quiet end for the piked in massacre due to the methodical nature of these killings and the lack of forensic evidence at the scenes. These murders have been described as a premeditated and sophisticated ration- four people have been arrested and the death penalty is on the table. So this is a fascinating case that was recommended to us by christie. W so thank you kristie. It is fascinating a lot of people involved in this case. So try to remember who i'm talking about. Yeah well there's usually only two last names you're dealing with. Fortunately yeah so. The beer for this is called psychopathy and it was when it was gifted to us by two great listeners. From ohio caitlyn and sarah psychopathy is an ip a brewed by maitree brewing cincinnati. Nice hazy orange colour whitehead some. Lacing pretty beer mostly pine aroma little with the citrus mostly uphill taste some grapefruit nielsen grapefruit ryan. You know you get that kind of bitterness and this is a medium bodied beer easy to drink enjoyable to drink all right. Let's open it up. Okay dickey so. I want to invite you to the quiet end but as most people now were quarantined at home for the past several months so we haven't been recording at the quiet end of the bar but we do have a quiet end here in our little home recording studio but the problem is the only ones to talk to at the quiet. End are the dogs and a keith morrison poster on my wall we tough to have conversations with any of those folks. It is but at this point. I'll talk to most anyone or anything. And should i be worried that the dogs have been answering me lately. That's when you worry. I mean it's it's okay. It's one thing when you're talking to them but if they start talking back with you and your understanding what they say and agree with what they say. Gio well that's why. I think it must be all my head. 'cause they always agree. Well that's good. yes okay. So we've opened our beer here. You are sitting next to me. We've got the fire going in the corner. So how about you start this out. This is quite the story that any alon one. Yeah but picton is. A small town is located about eighty miles outside of cincinnati and it has a population of just over two thousand residents must of the residents live on farms or on country roads. They enjoy outdoor recreation and chips generally looking out for their neighbors. So you might imagine how shocking the murder of eight members of one family in two thousand sixteen frightened. The people piped-in so over the past sixty years or so factory jobs in the piped-in area faded away. Some families moved on to find better lives but the rodent family dug in their roots they lived in piped-in for three generations mirror family oriented and protective of one another. They were very close and they lived within a few miles of each other. Chris rhoden senior grew up in pike and after his parents moved there from kentucky. Now it's just over fifty years ago. After christina's father died back in two thousand eight. He and his eight siblings each inherited and equal share of the family's property. Yes and chris was one of the ones that stick around eight members of his family. Were kill shot execution style in one night at four different locations the victims ranged in age from sixteen to forty four and the only witnesses were. The three young children left alive at the crime scenes. I'll too young to identify any of the suspects bill. This was only like two or so three. I think you're not gonna get a good description of anything now. So the rodent family was quite well known in this tight knit community and for the most part pretty. Well liked dana. Lynne roden met christopher rodent senior when they were young and they quickly became high school sweethearts. They got married in nineteen ninety. Four family and friends. Remember chris a hardworking family man. Who was kind to everyone. He was an excellent carpenter and worked doing construction. At big bear lake resort. in the nearby town of lucasville he also went to car. Auctions bought up some used vehicles he was able to fix them up and sell them for a profit and that could be quite lucrative. You might be surprised how lucrative that could be. Why wouldn't be another can mature a good amount of money. Yeah if you can turn it over quickly make a couple of thousand each time. It also obviously has to be a car that people want yes. He seemed to be good at picking up here. So if i took out a nineteen sixty eight dodge dart. Nobody's going to buy that. Oh i don't know but put in a a challenger charger mustang. Yeah one of those muscle cars skirt. Yeah so chris. Seniors wife dana worked full time as a nursing assistant in assisted living facility. She was remembered as a mom who looked after everyone else's children as well as their own her friends of described her as a social and really fun loving woman. Dana and kristen your head. Three children clarence roden. Who went by frankie. Hinna may roden and christopher roden junior so after years of marriage. Kristen diana's marriage actually fell apart and they got divorced but they did remain friendly. Chris moved down the road and lived with his brother. Gerry in fact. Chris purchased a house for dana that was located on the same property as his and union hill road and they continued to co parent and grandparents seemed to get along just fine. It sounds like they're did. Didn't have any major disagreements or anything. Now they're all. This child was twenty. Year old frankie and he lived nearby with his fiancee hannah hazel gilly. And their son. Frankie and hannah hazel. Were hoping to get married soon. And they had long term plans to have a large family of their own like his father. Frankie was a hardworking man. He really enjoyed the outdoors particularly hunting and fishing but his passion was demolition. Derby in his little brother. Chris junior loved to work on cars and they like to drive in the derby at the local fair. Yeah hannah hazel had recently graduated from high school in her plan was to start college and studied business. She loved children and had plans to open her own daycare after she got a business degree. Frankie also had a son from a previous relationship three-year-old brantley and he and hannah hazel had a six month. Old son named ruger. Ruger lee roden chris. Junior known as little. Chris was known to be the wild one and he was the baby of the family. He was fiercely independent and he got his driver's license as soon as he possibly could. And as the first kid in his group of friends to get his license he was very generous and eager to give them rights. So that was nice. A lot of the kids benefited from that. Because this is the country schools not necessarily close to where you live. Sedan chris. seniors middle child another hanna. Hanna may roden was only nineteen years old when she was murdered. She had given birth to a daughter just four days before the murders. Wow yeah a newborn. So back in the summer of two thousand ten hannah road and celebrated her thirteenth birthday. She began dating an older boy. I was seventeen year old. Jake wagner and jake was crazy about hannah and their relationship. Move quickly when hannah was just sixteen. She and jake made plans to start a family right away. Her parents went thrilled at first but they did love. Jake and as i thought about it. Dana and chris senior had married. When they're very young. Now i know you're going to say but they're divorced but the marriage had lasted over twenty years right so it was pretty successful and they were friendly as well. Yes so even post divorce. They remained on pretty decent terms. Yes and they were together through the raising of their children and everything so i would say it was successful overall. Considering how early they married but that seems to be a pretty common thing. Among the people in the story may be in the region his marrying young and having babies young chooses his crew. Yeah so in two thousand thirteen. While hannah was still a high school student. She gave birth to her and jake wagner's daughter sophia. And although this could have been easy. Hannah was very attentive and happy mom. She even brought her daughter sophia to the high school once in a while to show her off because she was still a high school student. Hannah stayed in school while jake worked as a truck driver with his brother. George wagner shake was an attentive parent as well. he provided for hannon's sophia spent quite a bit of time caring for sophia and was very protective of them. Both but along with that protectiveness. He may have been too controlling with his wife and there would also be rumors and suspicions of domestic abuse in the relationship so when they were a couple. They split their time between the two sets of grandparents. Angelo wagner jake's. Mom was excited when sophia was born and she went out of her way to help with babysitting and finances in twenty fifteen. Hannah and jake set a wedding date and had their rings tattooed on their fingers. So i know. I'm older but that's an unusual thing for me. Tattooing your rings give. It works in pupil with a we. Have i guess. I always just thought people did that after they were together for a while and just got tired of wearing rings but to do it from the beginning. That shows major commitment. Can't just take it off or you can amputate a finger but it wouldn't wanna do that. Astros yeah yeah. And i i guess something like you said i'm getting old. Yeah so. Hannah was really close to jake's family especially jake's mom angela and angelo with leaders say that hannah was really like a to her so if we go back to the summer of twenty fourteen. Hannah jake's daughter. Sophia was about eight months old. When the wagner's began doing some strange things they hacked into the rodent family computers phones and social media accounts. They also set up surveillance cameras to watch the family's comings and goings. It was really as if they were trying to get familiar with the family members routines as well as their homes and their property so a couple questions. I guess What drove him to do this. We know the murder surveillances stuff and we don't know i think personally they were planning for the murder but we'll get into that. I really can't see any other reason other than maybe being a controlling boyfriend. Your mr so weird. It's very weird. And these are two large families For the most part got along pretty. Well together yeah. They had a lot of interaction so they had a granddaughter in common. But i've been doing this stuff. This just as weird yeah. It was quite a surprise to everybody when they heard about it. Re- other part of that would be if the rodents found out about this right or do they not ever find out about a weed out now weed out now so much for that question. Well we'll talk about the possibilities as we go through this but we really don't know for sure either way because we haven't had any trials yet. This is not resolved trolls who still in the horizon when they're going to start right. Everything's kind of delayed. But kenneth rodents daughter kendra told one reporter that they were cameras. Set up around chris. Seniors home by the wagner's in twenty fourteen now remember. They weren't killed until twenty sixty right. This is a rodent who knew boat cameras again. I guess i could find that out. After the fact yes but back in twenty fourteen when these cameras were put up hand jake were still a couple. They were planning to get married and still apparently very much in love. So why would the family be watching the rodents and you know even planning to murder. The family members back in two thousand fourteen. We don't know siri odd. Yes so according to jake. Who submitted a signed affidavit in two thousand sixteen he and hannah had broken up in april of twenty fifteen. So that's pretty much exactly a year before the murders. He claimed that hanna broke up with him because she thought he was working too much so he had really wanted hannah to just be a full time. Stay at home mom and have his babies. But hannah wasn't ready to do that. She's so young. And according to anonymous sources close to the couple. Jake was not at all okay when she broke up with him. He was very upset. Very angry about this and he worked really hard to try and get back together with hannah. He did everything he could to convince her to get back together but she wasn't having it and there are things that point to the wagner's becoming obsessed with getting sole custody of sofia. After and jake had broken up so we weren't content was half custody. I don't know if it was half. I think it was more like weekends. And things like that but they weren't happy with it. We wanted more if they couldn't control hannah. They definitely wanted to control sophia and her life so in july of twenty fifteen hannah posted lyrics from a song about domestic abuse on her facebook page. So here's an indication that may be. Jake was abusive with her. The lyrics were. He slowly isolates her from all of her friends. She works really hard but he takes all of it. And after that quote she wrote and domestic violence live a happier life. So the line seems to imply issues with jay wright gerda agha's but there's no proof that hannah was referring to her relationship with j. so it wouldn't be evidence of anything. No now just to backtrack a tiny bit in may of two thousand fifteen after hand split up handed her brother frank. He's best friend. Charlie gilly charlie also happens to be frankie's fiancee. Hannah gillies brother told you it was complicated for my brain. But i think i got it. Yeah now in the beginning this relationships in pretty ideal charlie was very well liked by the rodent family and he was just so excited to be with hannah. He often posted photos of him in hand on facebook and proclaimed his love for her. Yes so. I would imagine that jake did not like this. Sure he didn't. This was like throwing it in his face almost although by the middle of summer july or so hanan shortly broke up so it was a fleeting relationship. It was but she didn't go back to jake either. No moved on. So according to jake thou he and hannah had continued a physical relationship all through that summer but later that summer handed another young man named corey holdren and according to those who jake well. This just crushed him. He was very much in love with hannah and once she broke up with charlie he thought well it's going to be us right but then she found another guy so he was really upset to hear that hannah was dating someone new and he just couldn't seem to understand get it through his head why she wouldn't take him back. He promised her everything even crying and begging for her to take him back but she decided she was done so after the tears and after finally accepting that hannah wasn't going to change her mind. We believe that jake went from being sad to being will remember just wondering. Here's more to the idea. Some domestic violence is s. A no way. She's going back with them. It seems to me something more is going on. It does a lot of people feel that way. It's just not definite moreno. Yeah so another thing which was quite a shock was that august. Hannah learned that she was pregnant again. She wasn't sure if the father was. Jake charlier corey but when jake learnt about the pregnancy he got excited. He was really hopeful. He offered financial help to hannah and promised to raise the child as zone. No matter who the bio dad turned out to be so he and his mom actually went out and bought a crib and other baby items for this new baby. But hannah said she still didn't want to be with jake so he was very upset about that again. He just seemed certain that this was his baby. Even though it would turn out that that baby was not jake's so according to the indictments the wagner began plotting these murders months before if not years before investigators believed the planning began at least on january first of two thousand sixteen and that means at least four months of planning at least four months at least now by that fall and winter. The wants civil co-parenting relationship between hannah and jake was deteriorating. Hanno is limiting jake in his parents visits with the two year old daughter. Sophia and a custody battle began and fact and april of two thousand sixteen just a few weeks before the murders jake and his father tried to convince handed assigned custody papers now. What hannah didn't know. Was that these were forged papers angela. Wagner's mother rita joe. Nukem was a notary. But she didn't sign the papers. She told a grand jury that she did but she lied at the request of her daughter. Angela thus jake's mom right so this was jake's graham reader joe ca- but despite all this going around hannah refused to sign the papers anyway so overnight yes so afterwards jake told hanna and some other family members that he was going to kill her so that significant would take that as a threat. Yeah you know people say oh people. Just say that all the time when they're angry. But i have to say even when i'm really angry i i rarely threatened to kill anyone. I threatened to kill people on tv. When i'm watching politics. But i never say i'm gonna kill you to anyone and i don't think i ever have so when anyone says i'm going to kill you. I would you know at least take it fairly seriously. Oh absolutely yeah. So according to court records this forged document appointed guardian for sophia. In the event of jacob and hannah's deaths which is strange because this is what a nineteen and twenty two twenty three year old kid so they really shouldn't be planning so much for their deaths. No when police searched the wagner home after the murders the document was found and it was in a box belonging to jake's mom angela wagner and the box was labeled important stuff narrows it down yes so the document had been forged on april third three weeks before the murders and this is going to be some strong evidence for prosecutors. I think in. Mid april of two thousand sixteen chris senior billy wagner had some kind of argument and they had a falling out over this argument but don't know what the disagreement was about but there is definitely some tension between the two families. Yeah now here is where we were talking about. Did the rodents find out about the cameras. And the surveillance and i have to wonder if that's what this argument was about but apparently chris senior and billy wagner whose jake stat had done some business things together. I'm not sure what it had something to do with the cars possibly but they had this disagreement which became pretty much a falling out. And you have to wonder what caused that. Yes you are right on an april seventeenth twenty sixteen. Hannah gave birth to her second daughter named her kylie so she didn't list dad on the birth certificate. Remember there are three possibilities. The custody battle over sophia was continuing as well and hannah may was now a mother two daughters she had two year old sophia and she had newborn kylie. They were living with hannah's mother and they shared custody of sofia with jake wagner. Sixteen year old chris. Junior the little brother lived in the same house and he was a freshman at the local high school. So i'm not sure why he was. A freshman at sixteen may had been held back. A year started late. Not sure but he was just quite a character. I guess a real fun loving kid. He the wild one he was the wild one and these people were allowed into outdoors things and the demolition derby road. So it's a whole different lifestyle. I would think school was in high on his list. Well i don't think he was planning for college if that's what you mean. You're probably not. And he had a lot of things to do. And i'm sure he had a pretty good idea of what he was going to do as an adult because he'd started out young working on cars and things like that so as hannah was celebrating the birth of her second daughter kylie. It really seems that the wagner family was busily planning the murders of eight rodent family members. The wagner's already owned several guns. Of course not unusual when you live out on a farm but they began making their own silencers. So it's likely that those silencers were used on the night of the murders here. One of her letters. The gut This past week or so said that silencer is a misnomer. Yeah suppressor share which is point that out. Well yes it doesn't make them silent muffles the sound but i think the common word for it has been silencer. You're right so even though. The term is an entirely accurate. We get the gist redo and we always appreciate a little education. So that's cool tail now. According to the indictment there were items purchased at walmart by the wagner's that were used in the murders jake's brother george wagner. The third made several purchases in the months leading up to the murders. His purchases included a pair of shoes material to make brass catchers ammunition. A magazine clip a bug detector not insects. Now we're talking about recording devices detector. They're kind of book and parts used to make silences for their guns or suppress suppressors. Brass catchers our bags hook onto the site of guns and they catch spent cartridges. So with this type of gun each time the trigger is pulled a cartridges objective from the gun and abreast catcher at collect them so he wouldn't find any evidence being left behind right you wouldn't have any cartridges or case six whichever you want to call those so the indictment mentions that a particular pair of shoes were purchased from walmer in the theory. Here is that the wagner's were attempting to frame james for the murders. So james was a significant person of interest because after his sister. Bobbie jo found. Two dead bodies and chris seniors home. She had called her in daynuss brother. James manley and james said then rushed over and discovered the dead bodies of hannah and dana. Roden in the trailer down the road. James shoeprints were allegedly found at this crime scene but just one day before the murders the wagner family drove over two hours to a specific walmart so not the local one to buy a particular brand and size of shoes and these would match the type of shoes known to be worn by james manley so this is such a complex plot. Isn't it if it wasn't so evil. An awful it would almost be impressive but the police were able to get possession of the walmart surveillance footage which shows them buying those shoes. James lead the nearest dana and it was predictable that he would have been one of the first people to come upon the victims that morning. So also when you think about the way that the police initially reacted to james the wagner's actually came pretty close to successfully framing james for the murders if they in fact did these murders remember. They are assumed innocent until proven guilty. I am okay now. Dana rudin sister named bobby. Joe manley had been aspect. Chris senior to feed his pets on the morning of april twenty. Second hannah had a newborn to care for and christina. Newly dana would be busy taking care of her and their granddaughter. The bobby jo agreed and she drove christina's house just after seven. Forty five am that morning when she walked into the house. She saw this bloody mess. The interior was covered with blood and she saw to blood-soaked bodies that turned out to be chris. Rhoden senior and chris's cousin gary roden. Yes so bobby. Joe called nine one one and this was recorded to have come in at seven fifty one. Am she's badly shaken of course and she described the crime scene saying that the two men inside of the home looked like they had been badly beaten and they were dead. Bobby joe gave the dispatcher the address and they told her to walk outside of the house in stay there so before. The first responders arrived. Bobby joe into a second home next door on the property where frankie roden his fiancee. Hannah hazel gilly had been living frankie's three year old son. Brantley answered the door. He's covered with blood and discombobulated. I guess is a good enough word. Bradley told bobby joe that his father was playing zombie. The family was fans of the walking dead. So bentley would be likely to interpret that way. Well i guess he sees all that blood but the let's three-year-old watch that show. I think it would be really scary for them. But that's not the point of the story. No bobby joe. Found frankie roden and his fiancee. Hannah hazel shot to death. Frankie had been shot three times in the head and hannah was shot five times altogether and they were both in bed with their six month. Old child who was unharmed but laying there with his two dead parents. It's a horrific thing to imagine. Sure is so now. There were two murder scenes in four victims. So bobby called her and daynuss brother. That's james manley. James went to dana's home to check on her once there. He found dana. Enter nineteen year old daughter. Hannah shot to death in her trailer and this was just about a mile down the road. They had been shot execution style. Dana was shot three times in the right side of her head and wants beneath her chin. Hannah was shot twice in her head. Lying right beside her newborn daughter kylie fortunately kylie was not harmed thankfully and kind of suspiciously. Though hannah's three year old sophia was staying with her father. Jake wagner that night now. I guess that was a day earlier than he usually took the child for the weekends. So we don't know if it was his idea to pick her up earlier or maybe hannah just wanted him to because she had a newborn to deal with. We don't know you're trying to be a nice guy if he's innocent okay because if not. He took his daughter so she wouldn't be there. Yeah so as the news of the first death spread people in piked and began to worry about little chris. Chris rhoden junior because he hadn't shown up at school that morning. So of course. Everyone feared that he had been a victim as well. Law enforcement went searching for chris junior and he was found hours later in the same mobile home. Where's mother and sister. Had been killed dana and hannah so chris junior had also died from gunshot wounds to his head. This is just something that would be hard to believe if you lived in that community. This is this little rural farming community of thousand people and you have eight murders. Yes but we're going to find out. There were some other suspicious murders not to this extent not eight people but there were some other ones. That were a little bit strange litter that afternoon. Donald stone found his cousin. Kenneth roden shot to death in his camper which is a few miles away. So this is about seven hours after bobby jo. I called nine one one. Donald had heard the news about the murders of the rodent family and he decided to check on his cousin who has the forty four year. Old kenneth kenneth is chris seniors older brother when he got to the house. Donald found kenneth dead with a gunshot wound in his face. His body was covered with dollar bills. That look like they've been thrown over. But was this just an attempt to make the murder. Look quick drug hit well. I don't know i'm not sure. What the denominations of the money were. But i'm just wondering why would you throw money on. Someone certainly take only one of money thrown on. Yeah and if it was a robbery you wouldn't do that so i personally do wonder if this was just a way to make this murder looked like it was a drug hitler's. Hr seems like something. You'd see an drug movie. Care are breaking bad episode. Something you'd see her dream up of our would represent the action of a gang member. Yes exactly without any basis of reality. Yeah i have no no reality to base that on your right dig way. You smashing your headphones to bits. I am just so frustrated listening to ads. Why can't i listen to my favorite podcasts. Without those annoying ads well. I can't help you with other podcasts. However true crime brewery now comes commercial free for our tigr members. That's right if you subscribe it any level you get to listen to all of our new episodes commercial-free and this is in addition to our bonus episodes each month. Plus you get some great. Tcp swag mailed to you when you join. At least i can listen to true crime brewery ad free. I really wish other podcasts would do that. And jill yeah. Do you know where the glue is. Just pounded up my last pair of headphones off So the evidence showed though that most of the victims had likely been asleep when they were shot today. But chris rodent. Senior was probably awake when the perpetrators began their attack because he was shot in the forearm which was likely defense wound and he was shot a total of nine times. More than anyone else plus. He had a lot of bruising as if maybe he'd been a fight his cousin gerry was shot twice in the head and once in his face and one of the shots left a muzzle stain or a gunpowder mark because the gun was pretty much touching his temple super close to it at least which is like an execution style killing also would fragments found on christina's body indicated that his body had been dragged across the floor and police believe he was away and confronted by his killer. The multiple shots in the close range of the shots really indicated a certain degree of rage and the police believed familiarity with the victims investigation into the murders included speculation that there could be connected to the demolition derby. Maybe marijuana growing and selling even cockfighting i guess all possibilities on the table. Yes yes in late april two thousand sixteen the attorney general of ohio. Mike dewine gave an update on investigation at a press conference. He confirmed they had found marijuana plants in three different locations enough to suggest a grow operation. Two hundred plants were found into three homes on union hill road and the value of these plants was at least four hundred thousand dollars. Investigators also found equipment and chickens point into involvement in cockfighting. Then that makes them a little less likable. But you know. The lifestyles of the rodents didn't reflect that they were big drug growers or sellers. They lived in these modest mobile homes and drove average vehicles. It is true that the state of ohio was going to legalize. Marijuana for medical use after the legislation was passed in two thousand sixteen. So it's also possible that the rodents were growing the plants in preparation to sell them for medical use after the law was changed. But you know after that was announced in a press conference the empathy for the rodent and family fell off in the community now. They thought well. These people were drug dealers. They had it coming in fact donations to help the family. Bury these eight family. Member stopped coming in. Even there was one business who had made a donation or promise of a donation who cancelled it. Once he found out there were drugs. But you know the killings looked like they could have been a cartel hit the mo matched what would be expected cartel members came up from mexico. Killed eight people and then disappeared before the bodies were found and for years. Marijuana was grown in mexico and transported for selling in the us but with marijuana legalization increasing in the us. It's become easier to grow and process marijuana inside the country. Just sell it right inside. It eliminated the risk of crossing the border with the drug. There were rumors that it was the sinoloa cartel that was responsible because they did have connections in ohio. The da had documented the cartels ties to ohio for over a decade in fact finding large marijuana grow operations all around pike county in two thousand ten. The da had found over twenty three thousand plants in encampments where people lived in tents grew the marijuana so as the investigation progressed into these murders. Investigators did find at the road and family had connections to growing some pipe. So maybe they had done something against the cartel which could provide the mode of and help find a pupil responsible other cartel was well known for being brutal and stealthy killers gotten past watchdogs and security cameras and they left behind no trace of themselves at the crime scenes. The killings were execution style and not crimes of passion. Yes it definitely seemed that way and we're not sure if there was actually no trace because of course none of this is public yet but i would think that if the watchdogs didn't bark than it probably somebody that was known to them exactly not cartel members. Yeah i don't know that they didn't bark necessarily but they didn't attack and they seem to let whoever was by them. Were killed survived right right. That's another thing is the cartel would probably kill the children and the dogs as well execution style killings are usually done up close and at point blank range but some aspects of the killings are not what is usually seen in drug hits like. It's not normal for the cartel to kill so many family members in one location so far away from the mexican border. The biggest problem with the drug related killings theory is the fact that the kids were left unharmed. Leaving the children. Alive pointed to someone with some kind of morality some small spec somewhere right right. There had to be a little bit of empathy and compassion for these innocent children but none whatsoever for adults or even for the sixteen year old. Chris junior the only ones left alive where the one so young that they wouldn't be able to identify the killers and the consensus from those who understood the cartel was that they would have killed everyone including the baby's even the four day old so despite this evidence of a grow operation the police set aside that cartel theory fairly early on yom larue impressed with as a theory. Okay so the people impact and were shocked and terrified after these killings who say word in his could be a killer or killers amongst them the up close and personal nature. The killings led investigators to consider at the rodents had been killed by someone. They knew someone who is angry with a rodent family and wanted to eliminate them but investigators had no idea who is responsible or what the motive could have been but early on. They focused on the family security system. The footage didn't show anything so someone had to have turned it off or something. The romans also had those attack dogs and the dot and the attack dogs didn't attack. So that makes you think maybe the dogs were familiar with the killers and especially jay could actually live there for quite a while would know those dogs quite well. You would dana. Rodents sister bobbie. Joe manley was the first on the scene who discovered dead bodies and then her brother james manley was there so we know that people who discover a crime scene are in the first suspects because sometimes a killer will call the police and pretended just innocently. Come upon a dead body. But after several interviews with james bobby joe law enforcement was not convinced that they had any reason to be there that morning but bobby joe insisted they had nothing to do with those murders. Schutte and leonard manley. Who were the parents of dana. James and bobby joe angry and frustrated that the police were looking at james and bobby joe. The idea that any of the family could be suspects. Just didn't go. Go over well with them because bobby joe is the first one to find the bodies of kenneth and chris senior. She was the focus of the police suspicions. She did finally agreed to take a polygraph exam and infection took several and was finally eliminated as a suspect and then her brother james manley became the main focus of the investigation especially once investigators learned that james had been texting with jake wagner at two. Am on the night of the murders now. The context of the text is not known to the public. But james did fail a polygraph. He was released but police suspected his involvement and decided to keep an eye on him and what he didn't know as they also had those shoeprints that matched his shoes so at the police did is they put a gps tracker on james truck and they followed him but he found the tracker and removed from his truck and after doing that they charged him with tampering with evidence and vandalism choose both of these charges were for removing the device from his own truck. Which i just can't see how that's valid but six days after that arrest the charges were dismissed mortgage if it wasn't valid. I don't think it's something you'd go after someone for. But it was a way to get him in there and get him to talk more sure but the police had found no evidence of james involvement in the murders and they also found no motive for him to be involved in it. It was possible there was only one killer but the evidence was really pointing to more than one. The killings were definitely planned premeditated and they did show a certain level of sophistication the pike county. Sheriff charles reader told the media that he was convinced there had been more than shooter. Investigators took the property of the victims as evidence. This included their mobile homes vehicles and farm equipment these restored in a warehouse that was an old chemical processing plant. Now interesting side light here. After weeks of surveillance at the warehouse a local news network ran a report about the inadequate security at the warehouse. Quitting to the report reporters camped outside the warehouse three weeks and saw no sign of any officers or security people and in fact. The main gate to the warehouse was left open. Because of this any evidence that would have been stored. there probably wouldn't be admissible in court is is too many ways to contaminate it. Well yeah these mobile homes were in the parking lot area this big parking lot surrounding the warehouse. So all you'd have to do even if the gate was locked as jump it and you could plant something in one of the vehicles or the houses or you could take things so. This was just terrible. Terrible police work to do that. You're sure was so that didn't look good and the ohio criminal bureau of investigation came in and put together a task force and this included one hundred officers to investigate these murders the f. b. i. Helped as well and the. Da did but after a year they were no further along in solving these murders at all and the locals were just terrified that the case would never be solved and that they were living with killer among them as the investigation dragged on the townspeople became more reluctant to speak with police because they were afraid they were afraid they might become the next victim and their confidence in police was not very high faith in the police waned as time passed in the killers remained free residents believed that if the murder of eight people in their own homes couldn't be solved their own lives. Were in danger and the police wouldn't be able to help them. Why you think that way. Yes certainly leonard mainly told the police that the killers had been familiar with the roads with their homes and with their property he felt felt. The kill is headed. No the family because the dogs had not attacked and there are no signs of forced entry into the homes now lennon claimed that his daughter dana had no part in the marijuana grow operation then it was his feeling that her name was just being sullied with all the others painted with the same brush as they say shah now just six days after the murders jake wagner filed for custody of severe. This was a pretty odd and suspicious thing. It normally takes months together the documentation to file for custody so this filing early certainly suggested pre-planning and advance knowledge that hannah would be deceased around the same time angelo. Agnew told jake that he should put together a gofundme page to help the custody expenses. He did that and he says. Go on the page of twenty thousand dollars. His personal message on this page read. These are not expenses. I supposed to have. I supposed to be able to spend time with her and give her happy. Childhood severe naive just asking for enough to settle the fees that we acquired due to the horrific tragedy to her. Mommy i hate seeing my daughter cry. We went to get our lives back. So what did you think of that. No now even if he was innocent. You don't like it. i like you. I don't like the go fund me stuff to begin with. Yeah but i mean there are some genuine cases. This one doesn't seem that genuine to me. The wagner family was quite well off onto land. Yeah so that wasn't an issue. It was more like a means of getting people. Feel sorry for yeah. I kind of get that vibe. As well and then the cash wouldn't hurt either. Run by a lot of people were offended by this gofundme campaign especially people who believed that. The wagner's were responsible for the murders. They complain about jake. Having the gall to ask for money but jake was given custody of sofia and he did do his best to present himself as a sympathetic character and there were some people who believed him like close to half of the people in the town. They saw him as a single dad with these big legal bills and a new job that paid half of what he had been making so he was living closer to sofia but he still had to make a daily commute to cincinnati which was a two and a half hour daily. Drive so poor jake. I have some sympathy form. If he's innocent bert you're right but i just don't like the way he's gone about it. Well there's probably a lot of things about jackie wouldn't really liked. Probably not further probably is now at the one year anniversary of the murders. The church held a vigil. Were hundreds of people showed up. Residence voiced their fears about the killings and worried that the case would never be solved and the anniversary brought more attention than media and the media obviously pushed for more details from police. Some information at head and kept confidential then became public and the autopsy results were released now. Though the reports were heavily redacted the number of shots used to kill. The family members certainly showed overkill. Oh absolutely yeah. According to the report there was one victim with one gunshot wound one victim with two gunshot wounds to victims with three gunshot wounds to with five one with four and then of course chris senior had nine gunshot wounds so this does show some overkill. Choose to in may of twenty seventeen. The farm of local resident bernard brown was searched by the police. This was a longtime friend of the wagner. Family jacob stored some cars and other things on the property. The investigators took a small utility trailer that was owned by the wagner's from his property. According to brown jake wagner had dropped some items off at his property about a week before the search was done by early may the wagner family members had been interviewed several times by investigators. Angela told a family member that the police just wouldn't leave her family alone and community members were accusing and harassing the wagner's when they're out in public in town. According to angela a woman had thrown a bottle header hitter in the back and the community turned against the wagner so angela went on social media and claimed that her family was innocent. Yeah i'll read her post okay. I have decided to tell you all a couple of things about me and my family. What has happened to us in the past few weeks has been devastating and it will follow us for the rest of our lives. Hannah was a daughter to me. I loved her dearly. Her law still hurts to this day. Especially when i see her every day in my granddaughter. We did not do anything to hurt. Hannah's family we want justice just like everyone else. It is real disturbing. If you really want to know what you guys are doing. Your accusations now will hurt sofia later in life when she really understands what has happened. Let's try to find the real monsters. Who done this. So evangelists really innocent than it would have been really terrible for her to be shunned and accused by people in her town. I'm totally on board with that. But if she is guilty the fact that she and her family were just going about their lives as they had before. The murder shows hubris and a lot of coldeze. Many people believe that angela was the brains behind these murders. As well she had even been described as smug when filmed at some early court hearings so shortly after her facebook post the wagner family sold their farm hacked up some of their things and moved to alaska. They didn't hide their whereabouts from the authorities but still a lot of people saw the move as an indicator of guilt that october. Investigators rated three of the wagner's former properties to do a search. The task force had received hundreds of tips but none of them had come to anything. So investigators were really hitting a dead end with no evidence at the scenes and some differences in the killings at different locations. Leads were very few and far between and the case was really just going cold at this point no one. Investigators searched the wagner property the townspeople speculated about whether the wagner's were involved in the murders unlike most pike county families the wagner. Pretty well off the matriarch of the family was seventy six year old fredrika wagner. She owned over seventeen hundred acres of land that was valued at over four million dollars. G also owned a prosperous three hundred acre horse. Farm named the flying w. so flying w. farm is an equestrian farm where they raise special horse. Breeds frederick and the wagner. Family were also known as generous to their employees. She gave back to the community quite a bit. She was active in the church and she owned rental properties. Well george billy wagner was. Well liked pike ten and his wife. Angela was known as the doting mother and grandmother. There were rumors. That billy and chris rhoden senior had some business dealings but nothing was found that could have caused a mass murder but two of their children did. Have this significant connection. Jake hanna head sophia together. Hanan jake had never been married but they had been in a serious relationship. Hanna had been the one to break things off with jake and she just given birth to the second girl that she named kylie just days before she was killed so remember. Hanna had not been sure who the father of her baby was. But a paternity test done after hannah's death which show that jake was not the biological father. The police and attorney general indicated that they were focused on the wagner family. But they didn't come right out name. The suspects at that point but it was just after the one year anniversary of the murders win the wagner said sold their property and moved to alaska and this was seen as a red flag. but according to the wagner's planning this move for years they had moved at that point to get away from the police who were harassing them and they had not lived right after the murders but they may have felt the focus of the investigation moving to them one year out and made this decision to get away but then after two years there were still no arrests while that's until november two thousand eighteen on that day billy wagner. Id forty seven angela. Forty a jake. Twenty six jake's brother. George h twenty seven. Were all arrested charged with planning and carrying out the murders. So residents of pectin were divided in their opinions about their guilt or innocence. Pike county sheriff spoke at a press conference and he was convinced that the wagner's were responsible. Yeah he just went and arrested him. Yes six we think we got the re people. Yeah we'll we'll talk about him later. But a few days after those four arrests two more wagner family members were arrested billy wagner smother rodrico wagner angelo wagner's mother rita joe nukem were arrested and charged with perjury and obstruction of justice for misleading investigators to cover up for the killers so angeles mother read. A new come was charged with forging custody documents. Investigators now believed that the custody battle between jake wagner and hannah roldan over their daughter. Sophia provided the motive for the killings. Jake and hannah were together with sofia was born and they plan to be married but when hannah changed her mind and broke off the engagement. Everybody that jake was very distraught. He tried everything to get back together. But hannah was not interested and when they broke up in two thousand fifteen. Hannah was granted custody. Jake and his family though desperately wanted full custody of sofia. Investigators believed that the wagner's killed eight members of the rodent family so that no one in that family would be able to file for custody of sofia and that just seems drastic and crazy. Rooibos goes but there's a lot of evidence that was the motivation. Your bureau's it seems almost beyond belief that they would go to this length or these links to have custody of this child. Oh it absolutely does. Yeah it's crazy but prosecutors claim that read a nukem forged custody papers just weeks before the murders and tried to get handed to sign them then just six days after the murders jake wagner filed for custody and he was granted custody in june of two thousand sixteen. So you have to wonder if hannah had sign those papers and they had gotten so fia with those eight people still be alive. I think probably. It's really interesting that jake had picked up sophie and the day of the murders and that she wasn't in the hall when her mother was shot to death. So of the wagner's are guilty. I definitely think that was part of the plan. They didn't want that girl to be there. So the wagner family was four thousand miles away from piped-in in kenai alaska which is one hundred eighty seven miles south of anchorage and this is before the arrests. Yes before the get arrested. Yes they all lived in a double wide trailer on a large property. Jake got a job in construction and the family was making plans to buy a nice house but the move had definitely raised some suspicions back in ohio and a first public sign at the wagons. Were the prime suspects was when dozens of officers arrived at their former property to do an extensive search then. An appeal is made to the public for any information about the wagons. And i think that's pretty unusual though into name specifically these people say we want information about them yeah. The wagner's attorney accused them at that point of harassing his clients. Yeah he told the cincinnati enquirer that the authorities were incompetent or they were involved in a coverup according to their attorney john. The wagner's were cooperating with the police turned over laptops phones and dna willingly. Well sure but dna is something they'd be able to get from them. It'd be easy to get a warrant to get their dna. And do we know if they turned over all their phones and laptops. We don't know. I think if it was this big of a planning operation they probably had burner phones that they use to communicate with each other where you were if they were going to go to this length. Yeah all the hacking and everything could be more sophisticated. I would think so so. I don't know that that. Cooperation was so impressive or extensive but jake wagner told the cincinnati enquirer reporter that he moved to give his daughter sophia. A better life in alaska. He said they weren't in hiding and the police knew where they were living. And that's true. The police did know they were there. But in alaska the wagner's became prisoners of the local church. And can i and seemed to be making an effort to fit into this new community. Their pastor even described them as good country. People at the church. Jake was introduced to a young woman named elizabeth armor another church member and they dated for several months and then they got married in march of twenty eighteen. But eventually elizabeth armor would be on facebook warning people about how dangerous it was to be involved with the wagner's in one post. She wrote that. God had told her to come forward about her relationship with jake. She said that she was introduced to and encouraged by the pastor to get to know jake but she claimed that she had had no idea at the time that the wagner's were involved in this murder. Investigation beckoned piked it. Also she wrote that when the topic of the road and family massacre came up the pastor. Actually vouched for the wagner's and said the charges were just slander against the family. And i don't know who the hell. He thinks he was doing that. What did he know about it to spend can had lived there that long. No for this pastor to arrive at this conclusion so you wonder if it's just that they were tithing and that's what he liked. Possibly but elizabeth wrote that. She had just wanted to be a mother to sophia but found out she'd married her worst nightmare. All posts have been taken down now. And elizabeth hasn't made any public statement since then her so she's just kind of out of the picture and silenced. Yes well but you still up in breathing. She's alive as far as we know. Sure two after the road. Murders the wagner's return to the picton area. According to a family member the wagner's had returned. Because billy wagons father got sick and because they couldn't afford to live there anymore. The plan was to get things situated financially and eventually return to alaska to live. The return of the family was a surprise. The wagner tried to return to normal lives but they just weren't welcomed in piped-in a were welcomed before they left according to angela after a few weeks people in the community resume their harassment. The cars were vandalized and they were just not welcomed in local establishments way i think since the sheriff had gone public saying he wanted to know more about them and everything that they were even liked less than they had been before. Yeah because now. They've got some ammunition that the wagner's bad people right so a raid was done on another wagner family. Property in this was a farm that used to be owned by jake and george investigators found a home-made suppressor silencer at the bottom of a well on the property and on november thirteenth twenty eighteen angela and billy wagner. Jake george were arrested for the murders of the eight rodent family members. Angela's mother rita and billy's mother fredrika were also arrested in conjunction with the cover up. They were each arrested for obstruction of justice and perjury and rita. Joe was also charged with forgery. But all six of these people pled not guilty. Now these two grandmothers might seem like unlikely criminals but a look into the past of fredrika wagner revealed some earlier red flags. She was the matriarch of the family and she was the owner of properties throughout pike county. She had also found a to nonprofit organizations. The i was lucasville mission. Which is a church that helps underprivileged children and the other is the crystal springs home. This is an organization that helps developmentally disabled adult. She is well known in the community. Some people left her others feared her right now. It sounds like she's a very altruistic woman. Yeah i mean there were a lot of good things to say about her and she looks like just the small town grandmother in so many ways chris. Let's get some dirt on her well. Her attorney described her as a god fearing woman who taught sunday school but she had some business dealings with painted a different picture of her own. So this farm. The flying w. breeds horses dogs and pigs and in the nineteen nineties. Frederick had some legal troubles with some customers over the sale of some pigs. A group of customer sued her over her farm not meeting standards and for fraudulently selling them pigs who didn't match the description advertised by her. There were rumors over the years which causes many the locals to fear her to they had made money selling horses and miniature horses and there were some indications that the horses had been stuffed with drugs and moved back and forth to mexico to transport illegal drugs but these are all rumors. I only bring them up because they want to get a feel for the community and what people are thinking. Fredrika was also well known for her rent to own program developed to help lower income residents achieve home ownership over the years frederica entered into at least one hundred thirty land and stomach contracts so these contracts allowed the wagner's to hold the deeds son land as buyers paid off the principal and the interest if the buyers made all of their payments. They were assured that they would eventually be owners of the property but only twelve of the one hundred and thirty contracts wherever satisfied in looking back at the deals eighty percent of them were ultimately terminated without indeed being transferred so despite the renters making all their payments the vast majority of the properties remained in frederick possession many these people felt tricked by her and taken advantage of there was one tenant who described his rental as a real trash pitt to it was a one room with the toilet exposed in one corner. So was frederick more of a slum lord than someone helping the poor kind of sounds like it certainly surely does. These land contracts had many holes in them that she used her own benefit. And i did just a little background reading on this and these rent to own things pretty common scams against poor people. Scam get scam. Someone scam some rich bastard. Why would she scam. Poor people who just want to own their house. Fredrika wagner had not approved angela. When she married her son. Billy angela has been described by some piked and residents as shady person. She had passed on two thousand one. Angela unduly were charged with improper handling of a firearm. Two thousand twelve air both charged with a felony for receiving stolen property. The two thousand went firearm charge was an alleged road rage incident where angela pulled out a gun but no one was shot. So that makes it okay right well. It makes it better than if you shot someone. That's for sure. This occurred fifteen years prior to the murders. So maybe these charges don't seem real significant but with fredrika we see some poor character and dishonesty still nothing that would predict mass murder plot. That's the problem and june. Twenty six twenty nineteen frederick ahead. Her pretrial hearing the charges against her were dismissed. Prosecutors had accused her of lying to a grand jury about to bulletproof vest. That were found in billy's bedroom and her family farm when investigators searched their beck and twenty seventeen. According to one family member not charged for drake had not purchased the vest prior to the murderous but actually two weeks after the murders according to prosecutors. Fredrika had misrepresented where she had purchased. These vests overall. The charges against charges seemed like they were mainly brought forward in an effort to get her to talk about the murders and may be turn on some of her family members. But that didn't happen so was dropped but the prosecutor reserved the right to charge her again in the future but when the charges were dismissed for was happy she stood up. She waved to her. Supporters thanked her attorneys and said praise. Jesus she was quoted as saying trust in the lord with all you can and he will lead you down the righteous path. And then she added. They have no evidence. She had me up until they're so. That's the end of that rita newcombe agreed to a plea deal. She took a reduced misdemeanor charge of obstructing official business. The felony charges of forgery perjury and obstructing justice were dismissed and billy jake and george wagner all remain in jail on murder charges and could face the death penalty so an interesting piece of evidence are excel spreadsheets. That have hundreds of entries with messages including screenshots about child custody. This could point to the motive by showing that the wagner's were obsessed with getting custody of sofia prosecutors on the case also talked about a confidential informant. Who told them about a meeting at frederick house with the other accused family members. According to this informant the family disgust taking revenge. On attorney general. Mike dewine and unpire county sheriff charles reader. So we don't know who the informant was but to me. It seems unlikely. That the wagner's they're going to discuss this stuff. You know killing the ag and the sheriff in front of some outsider stretch. So that's true. Maybe the informant is a wagner family member. Who's turning on the others. I mean otherwise. I can't see it at the pretrial. Hearing george wagner to get released from prison on bond the prosecution presented some of the evidence they had against him because they wanted to keep him locked up one of the lead. Detectives testified that the police have ballistic evidence. Connecting firearms used in the murders to guns believed to have been owned by the wagner's so this includes a forty caliber handgun a twenty two rifle and a thirty caliber gun. They also have the shoeprints that match. The shoes purchased at walmart by the wagner's in their alleged effort to frame james manley. The prince were found in dried blood at two different crime scenes. They also found the receipts for the shoe's on the wagner's property so that's pretty good evidence they also had thousands of recorded statements from interviews with george wagner where he claimed that there were no custody issues between jake and hannah so fia at all but we have plenty of evidence that shows. That's not the case and something else was brought up at. George wagner's recent pretrial hearing. This is a screenshot of a message. From hannah rodent to a friend of hers in the message and telling a friend about the wagner's attempts to force her to sign forged custody documents. The screenshot was found on the wagner home computer and they had access to by hacking into hannah's facebook account the message ribs. I won't sign papers ever it happen though. Have to kill me i. That's a bit haunting reduce. You know there really is a lot of evidence that the wagner family was obsessed with getting custody of that girl people who knew the family have said that custody had been an issue for the wagner s- before so george wagner in. His ex wife were married for several years. That's jake's big brother and they had a son together. according to her. The family tried to force her to sign over custody of her son. Angela had manipulated. The ex wife had hired attorneys. Eventually taking custody of the boy the wagner's then maintained custody all the way up to the time of their arrests so the family definitely kept the boy's mother away from him as much as possible. It does show an earlier pattern. Hannah had contacted georgia's ex wife for advice when the family came after sophia and the ex wife told her not to listen to them. Sign anything without her own attorney. Of course we still have the evidence at the wagner's did actually try to trick hannah in assigning over custody acea to them. Yes there are many indications that the wagner's are very manipulative people. Angela wagner in fact did try to influence testimony from prison. She called her mom. Rita joe nukem several times and astronaut to testify against the family. She also gave her advice on how to explain. The forged documents as punishment. A judge took away angeles phone in mail privileges and this behavior of courses very bad for her defense. Any conversations from prison can be used against her at trial. So what about the idea that. The pike sheriff's department is incompetent road and murders made the news nationally. But the head been other sort of similar murders in piked in ohio. They might think this nothing ever happened in his place right right. Yep burt you found a lot of stuff. Yes so there had been. At least three recent cases in pike county with multiple homicides one is the case of forty eight year old candice newsom and her sixteen year. Old daughter christina. Who went by the name michael. This was january of twenty sixteen. So that's just three months before the rodents were killed so the two victims were shot execution style. It took three years but a neighbor man was arrested for the murders last year. There has been speculation that there was an accomplice but that hasn't been brought up candice's sister darla has spoken out expressing her opinion that her sister and nieces murders may be related to the road and murders and she said that they did run in the same circles so some of them knew each other than in april. Two thousand sixteen just weeks before the road and murdered young couple. Douglas eat mun and caroline and tomlinson were executed in their home. This was a double homicide in the middle of the night with four children. Left alive eerily similar to the road and murders. Charles elmer eat men and james allen even were indicted for murder and tampering with evidence. Is there douglas's cousin and uncle and always part of the motive is believed to have revolved around the family. Drug dealing business. The motive for candidates in her daughter's murderers isn't known but many locals have been critical of taking over three years for them to arrest the next door neighbor in the case and i could see that in the third other case in pike county is the december two thousand six case of the murders of engaged couple. Thirty four year. Old kurt francis and thirty year old jennifer forget and. This one is still unsolved. There have been no arrests or really any persons of interest mentioned. They were both shot and killed in their beds in the middle of the night curtain. Jennifer live just about ten miles away from the rodents property but their cases not gotten anywhere near the amount of publicity. There is a belief by those living in the area. That jennifer in kurt were just nice. People who got involved with some local drug dealers. The wrong people much of the crime in the area. Though is drug related. They have a big opioid in math problem. There and the were drug dealers living right down the street from curtain jennifer and apparently kurt owed them some money so according to the authorities on the day of the murder kurt had been drinking with these drug people when he and jennifer had an argument and during the argument jennifer said that she was going to stay at her mother's house overnight. So the couple's families think that the people who kurt had been drinking with overheard their conversation and decided they would go rob kurt believing that jennifer wouldn't be home but after they had broken into the house they saw jennifer and decided they had to kill them both. So i'm not sure why the family thinks this but the family also thinks they have an idea of who did it. They know who these people are but no arrests nothing. Investigators believe that the shooter is responsible for at least one other murder. Several leads have been investigated but not enough information was obtained to justify any arrests. The family suspected to be connected to the murder was investigated and police found a well on their property that was covered up by garbage and rocks. Yes so this story is just amazing. In horrible way shows the incompetence. I guess that's why we've brought in. Just mukhin your schick. Yes so investigators. They know that there's a couple of guns down. Well so they move a camera down there on polar whatever and they saw the two guns thirty feet down and one of which believed to be the gun that was used in the murders so there was also some bird clothing down there. That was probably some pretty good evidence. But police made this horrible decision to retrieve the evidenced by pumping water into the well from a firehouse. And this didn't go was they had planned at all. This is embarrassing for them. The force of the water caused the ground to break up and the guns actually went further into the earth so turns out. I guess this evidence is lost in irretrievable. Your know why they said it's too expensive to get it. But do you do that in a murder investigation. Not usually but what they did anyways. They apparently closed up the well with a steel plate. At someone come in and do that but family of the victims were quite outrageous upset and said. This is just complete incompetence to do this. How will it ever be solved. Might not be so you can kind of see now why. The community didn't have a lot of confidence in the pike. County sheriff's office. Well yeah but napa county sheriff's office also had state police. Fbi helping them so got a bunch of incompetence true enough. yeah self while the pike county. Sheriff charlie reader had key pieces of evidence from the road in case moved to that warehouse which was in the nearby town of waverley that was about a month after the murders now. This included the mobile homes and other vehicles in that huge lot with the fence around it but we know that it was unsecured so there was no police guard. There was nothing keeping the public from this important evidence. The chain of custody was broken. Which can of course have a really bad effect on the case could damage it. Yes so that's when local. Cincinnati news reporter jodi barr had contacted the pike county sheriff charlie reader with his concerns and told them that he planned to air report and the tv news about the warehouse area being unsecured and according to jodi he was approached after that by sheriff reader trying to make a deal for them not to run. The story reader offered access to the news crew to do an exclusive on the first one hundred hours with the sheriff in the roden murder investigation if they would agree not to run the story about the lack of security where the evidence was stored and they were pretty outraged by this. This is not a cool thing to do so they told the sheriff. We don't make deals and they went ahead with that story. Shariff reader was really at the center of the road and investigation. His deputies and state agents spent two years tracking the suspects before they made the arrests but he was suspended in the spring of this year. Prosecutors have alleged that reader misappropriated about fifteen thousand dollars in seized funds and also borrowed six thousand dollars from his employees. He was also accused of circumventing the rules. It is departments auctions to get impounded vehicles for his family members so he is faced sixteen charges and a grand jury has indicted him on to additional charges including felony charge of engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity which carries a recommended prison sentence of two to eight years. He pleaded guilty at the end of september to five charges including tampering with records theft in an office and conflict of interest. Some criminal justice experts have said that readers conviction could really be a problem for prosecuting this case or return. So yes but ohio attorney general. Dave jooste told fox nineteen now the local news network that readers indictment would have no impact on the wagner capital murder case as sheriff reader was not the primary witness for any issue of fact or law but. I don't believe that well if you're trying to paint the investigation as incompetent and corrupt you've got a good poster boy for it right exactly. Yeah yeah we'll see so the three children who were spared during the killings highly. Hannah's newborn lives with her father. Charlie gilly brantley the three year old lives with his mother and ruger. Frankie and hannah hazel gillies six month old infant is living with family members. Sophia the one. Who's at the center of this whole thing jake in hannah's daughter his currently in the custody of child protective services. But i have read a few things about her going to family members on the road and side which there are people in the family who think they can give her a good home and you think they'd go with family before strangers although in this case it's very complicated and so it looks like right now. The police are waiting for one of the four. Wagner's angela billy georgia jake to try to talk or make a deal. The wagons have been incarcerated apart for years now so i really wonder if one of them is informant. That was mentioned earlier. Jake had reasons to be hurt and angry and platinum murders. I think angela to see reasons to follow through the plan. She wanted custody of sofia very badly and had already managed to get custody of another grandchild. Georgia's son. I can see billy being really motivated in the murder to since he allegedly had a falling out with chris rhoden senior. But what about jake's big brother george. Yeah i don't know maybe he was just foul or it just seems like this was a close knit family. Family was a big deal like it is with everyone of course but sometimes more with country people. But you know it's been what now four years since they've been arrested so wouldn't surprise me if maybe george talks. Maybe his the informant even so they have been apart for two years since they've been arrested over two years so maybe he's the environment will find out. Eventually it's interesting to watch the wagner said waived their right to a speedy trial and now the trouser postponed remember all four have pleaded not guilty and have been held at separate jails in ohio and they do face the death penalty a hearing for george earlier this year. A special agent with the ohio bureau of criminal investigation testified that there were three murder weapons and one of the guns. A walter colt nineteen eleven. Twenty two pistol was the type wagner owned at one time so this author colt pistol has not been found interesting. Yes and the prosecutor has said he wants jake to go to trial i before his brother and his parents so that makes me curious of what's going on there. The trials were supposed to begin this past fall but have been postponements related to the covid pandemic so hopefully one day. We will know what happened. But i don't think we'll ever know the full story dozen summer. Do too much going on here. Yes very complex. Case authorities estimate that investigators have conducted tens of thousands of hours of investigative work on this case. They followed more than eleven hundred tips from the public. They've conducted over five hundred interviews tested more than seven hundred items of evidence. And they've served more than two hundred subpoenas search warrants and court orders as well so this has been a big job for them through busy. Yes absolutely so. I'm leaning towards their guilt here but there's just a lot of funny things. I don't understand funny. Odd things renault. There's so much to it and you know we're working with only part of the information. The police have to keep some things from the public. So be really fascinating to see what happens when these trials began. I'd like to see if one of them is going to turn state's witness or whatever you call it. So our sources for this case include the pike county coroner's office press release from april twenty six twenty six teen articles from news online from april of twenty nineteen. The associated press articles from november of twenty twenty an article from the columbus dispatch from april twenty. Second twenty twenty. There is a podcast by i. Heart radio titled the piked in murders. Which i found really fascinating. They do repeat it a lot of the same stuff but other than that. There was a lot of good information there. We also looked at the fox. Nineteen now w. x. i. x. tv news reports by. Jody barr from october. And november of twenty sixteen and from november twenty eighteen. oxygen dot com has a documentary titled the piked and family murders spun hour and a half long and that has a lot of information in his well she sees music was written and produced by tristan capelle and just a quick reminder. We do have merchant sale on our website. Tie grabber dot com. And if you'd like to get your future. Tc cb episodes commercial free. Get an extra members only episode each month and get a free beer glass bottle opener or a set of coasters along with stickers magnets and buttons you might want to consider subscribing tight grabber at tiger dot com now. I rarely mentioned this. But we also do have all of our episodes and bonus episodes available on our on page for those who prefer using that to offer support to us our patrons get bonus episodes and the gift as well so enough self-serving shit. Let's do the feedback all voicemails today your feast or famine around here today. We're gonna feast we go three voicemails. All right i'm going to start out with karen who was just commenting on a documentary that we watched as well. Hello there jilin dick. I hope that you're keeping very well and very safe. And and all of you in your pets are doing really well continuing to absolutely love your podcasts. I just wanted to drop you quick this story. This is karen from toronto canada When if you're longtime listeners and admirers and i just wanted to know that there's an excellent four part documentary series on hbo. Perhaps you've seen it. It's called murder on middle beach and it takes just remarkable. It's so it so remarkably well done and I just thought. I passed along in case. You haven't heard about it so wishing you all the best and thank you so much for all that you do buy thank you care and you're so kind we really appreciate it murder on middle beach. Yes we did. Watch it. It's right up our alley. We were hoping there'd be more episodes because it was one of those things where you didn't get an ending. Boroughs impressed with the kid is not a kid. He's an adult now. Yes a son in his twenties talking about the murder of his mother right. Yeah and he. He did a very good job. Yes introducing make a career out of this documentary making stuff but yet is a very fascinating story and we'd recommend it to people as well you know if there's ever a resolution i'd love to cover it on our show as well or we would. Yeah okay well. Thank so much again. Karen and now we have a case suggestion from tj readings. Ju on dicko. I just had a quick suggestion of occas- you could possibly look into and been a lifelong country music fan and one of the most famous murderers at surrounds country. Music is the murder of granola restart. Dave aikman who was professionally known as string. Bean and his wife stale. There has been several good articles written on and least one hour long tv documentary. That has made its way to you too. But i would love to hear your take on it. I love all your work. And i appreciate everything you do. Give us a lot to do during this time lot. Listen to keep it a thanks. Well thanks a lot. tj. I'm thinking karen in tj if they did a podcast together they've just got lovely voices don't they don't yeah melodic really well. This guy aikman known as string bean. I think that's because he was six foot five inches tall and kinda skinny he was a regular on hee-haw and grand ole opry as tj said. He was also his famous for wearing not outlandish clothing but his preferred clothing was a shirt. A pair of shorts with a belt. Buckle around his knees so look like his waist was that his knees well out of those grand old opry and he people. They all had their own little. This was stressing -ality their own little setup like the one with the tags on our hats. Yeah yeah so. He and his wife were murdered by some burglars. Nineteen seventy-three there. Were two cousins that were to the murders. One of them died in prison. The other was paroled about six years. Ago and i hadn't found anything details. His life after perot. So hopefully he's been clean. Yeah i wasn't able to find anything after parole. But i did find the article from twenty fourteen when he was released. He was sixty four when he was released. Sir forty one years. Yeah long time. So it was on the evening of november eleventh. Nineteen seventy three when john brown and his cousin. Doug brown ransacked the aikman's cabin on their farm near nashville. So i guess. They were looking for some cash that they thought ackman was keeping. Their police said the cousins were surprised. When the aikman's came home and john shot string bean as he walked into the cabin and then ran after the wife in the yard and shot her in the back of the head. I have to wonder where these guys drunk something was really strange about. This are desperate. So their bodies weren't found until the next day they were found by fellow opry performer. Graham jones who was a close friend who lived nearby although police said the motive for the slayings was robbery. The browns only took a chainsaw and some guns and it wasn't until nineteen ninety six when the police found the cash that they were looking for an actually string. Bean had concealed it in the walls of his home so another senseless two murders. But yeah fascinating case. I'd like to find out more about it. So definitely a good case suggestion all right so one more voice mail in this one is from patrick with two case suggestions to allow dick and jail. This is patrick. Promised land. And i'm bringing to recommend to cases from this world. The first case is the case of allen hall h. a. w. e. who murdered his family and then killed himself a few years back in ireland. And it's a very very tragic case and it's worked checking out. The second case is the murder of bobby ryan in tipperary in ireland. And that's a very interesting case about relationships and low and amendments sentenced abbott. Two years ago at for that crime. That's taken out in terms of beers. I would be to recommend something from the guinness brewery laughed your normal guinness draught that everybody's used to but some variations that they've got into the last couple of years. First recommendation is guinness. West indies out. The the second recommendation is guinness milk. Stout there are two variants that the burri has got into in order to try and compete with craft beer market. And they're pretty good. Okay dick and jail. Thanks for everything bye. Thank you patrick. You're those are two good cases in know. What about the beer. Those beers available over here do we now. I don't think i've seen the milk step. But the west indies. Stout have had part of a mixed pack guinness's also just made some barrel aged stoute's that i'd love to try if my packard store would ever get him All right okay. So yeah these two cases the first one is actually murder suicides. Very tragic now twenty sixteen and about to be exposed as a cross dresser addicted to porn. Is that really that shameful nowadays. When i first heard about this i thought oh it must have been back in the sixties or something. No one suggestion of some inappropriate sexual behavior at the school. He tied well. There's another logo mother love else. Okay but yeah. He had his three kids. Were ages six to thirteen something like that and his wife. So i kill all of them. That's what i don't understand remote himself right. But if you're that depressed and you're gonna take your life. That's a tragedy of course but then why would you kill other people to especially children says well. It's tragic all around for sure. And then bobby ryan a love triangle. What do we know about that. Not march okay. So we'll look that up. yes we will. Patrick quirk was the gentleman convicted of bobby ryan's murder. That's not our patrick. Who left the voicemail. That's different patrick. I hope i. I'm confessing to my own murder. No i mentioned patrick. Common name especially in ireland or would think. Yeah but another lovely voice. So thank you patrick. Thank you her to the suggestions. yes interests. Thank you to everyone for taking time out of your day to listen to us or just a lettuce. Entertain you while you're doing some kind of work around the house or whatever. We definitely appreciate it and of course we appreciate your feedback. Keep that humming rear low. Subic thanks for voicemails jan. Something to do. Absolutely thank you so much and we'll see everybody next time at the quiet end service it for you bye-bye burgers company talk
Coronavirus bunker Day 41, Ice-T interview, & more
"Radio station. Rover's morning glory. Can I ran in the same sort of. Hockey for a year. Charlie. Bat. And Jeffrey wanted me to just. STREAMING ON ROVER RADIO DOT COM Rover's morning glory sties now. Good morning the watch and putting it is Thursday. May Fourteenth Twenty Twenty Good Morning? It's Rovers, glory I'm rover Doozy is here. Do she is here I? Can't hear you. There, the G. Dealer is. Oh i. don't hear you either. Oh. They're they're my problem? Dushi See! Dumb is. Just screwed that up dumb is in the background. had. Oh no gum is. See the whole. The whole my crotch. Perfect, again, what are you doing with the hole in your crotch in your jeans? You just I love these jeans? Jeans hole in the crime replace in their five thirteen. They're no longer being made. And I'm just holding onto them. I tried to get a replacement pair and They're just a complete bust, so they're getting sent back. And I'M GONNA I'M GONNA try to patch these bad boys. Patch them I got hat with. An iron on patch inside iron on patch, cut off the frills and try to patch. This bad boy shut because I can't let these go I love him. So comfortable. All right. He refuses to give up on that pair of jeans in him. How long? I don't know four years. Maybe I've been for a while Oh. That's it. Yeah. I've really wore through this I. Mean I I'm Charlie I wear the same pair of jeans like. All Week basically. All right. My jeans it. It always was like stiff in that area. That was right. That's what I'm worried about. Literally the one thing I still. I was like I'm GonNa. Have this weird uncomfortable thing right where my my sack lies. It's all bad. Charlie is in his covid nineteen bunker at home. Good Morning. I. And snits our video guy. Is there his house? Morning everybody Flat. Is answering phones and the Fart box in the main studio. They good morning and we've already mentioned dumb. Our producer sitting there running the board. Until he shocks it and knocks off the air and screws. Everything up. It's only until then you'll be listening to this show we'll get to your e mail here in just a moment I believe I already mentioned. You can give us a call. Eight, six, six, your over eight, six, six, nine, six, seven, six, eight, three seven. That's how you reach us. Texas at that number that comes into the studio. In real time you can tweet us just at rover radio in your tweet that comes into the studio in real time, but the best way give us a call eight six six. Nine six seven. Six, eight, three seven. I'm just looking at the. Email but Some of these emails Sephardi Been Red and do. She did not on star them big. Big Big big problem. I. I. Swear to God. I did what the Superman. No, no, I'm just reading that now. That was from the two after that. I heard you say on the show on Tuesday that she is never heard of super bad the movie when talking about Emma Stone. There is one of her list that she loves so much on the Shitty a few days or weeks ago where she mentioned super bad being one of the funniest movies of all time her memory. Is Horrendous. Hot Tug US I remember that. Super Bad master been on the list though. On the list. Oh yes. She was number one. Number, one and number two on the list. Yeah, like Oh. Yeah, it's funny. Movie great movie that. Now that I remember yes I, did see it. Ray Says I. Two of a cat that's been coughing and sneezing loud noises when he breathes because of congestion. I took him to the vet one time. They told me it was allergies and give give the cat a shot of steroids. It didn't. It didn't help I took them back to the vet about three weeks later, still the same symptoms. But they didn't I thought. It might be corona virus, but they didn't think anything of it to. Your cat could just have allergies or asthma. took the cat in one time or my wife did ski kind of the same thing it was sneezing. gave it this This antibiotic that stays in system for like I. Don't know month or some however, long a long period of time like one dose. Thing made the kids so sick in just so lethargic that. I told my wife. Don't ever take the cat back to the vet, unless unless the cats on its bird I mean. We don't need to be running to the vet every time the. Sneezes! Seems to make it worse every single time. How's she doing? if you still sneezes, but I think she's. I think she's feeling better. Eight food yesterday and running around today when I woke up, so. Everything's alright. Dez rights knowing the Cova death numbers are already botched. Did you know that hospitals are getting money to market? Death is covert, so you don't even have to actually die of covid to become a covert statistic well Dez. First of all a lot I know this is going around. Over reporting. deep state the. The first of all, it would be illegal. To do this in a widespread manner, it's only a matter of time until you discovered. And second of all as A someone pointed out to us the other day. The amount of money you get is not wouldn't even cover. you know the cost of all these people with covid nineteen that it's just it's A. It's a small amount that they would they get. Now! so I. Don't think that this is I honestly. Don't think this is happening at all period I don't I don't think he could find one case of. People, keep saying like. If you're say you have covid, and then you die in a car accident. They're going to mark that as a cova deaf I don't think this is a this is a theory that everybody's saying. I'm just trying to understand whereas we're even came from not true at all, who would mark that the cause of death is covert. Wouldn't the coroner market I mean? Don't they? Give you the cause of death blunt force trauma to the head, or whatever so they're in as well? Yeah, for some reason, the mark that as Crow virus. They don't get any money. They don't get any money from the government and coroner so. I'm not this is this is A. Conspiracy Theory. Bath rights over I'm fairly new listener to the show. How do you meet Jeffrey? or how I don't know. How do you meet that I think are. How did you meet Jeffrey Oh, I thought she was asking. How do you meet Jeffers? Say we'll just get on facebook. Send a message. Reply, publicly with their cell phone number, and if you're over the age of fifty five, he'll probably drive three and a half hours to your house. Yasha be a woman. Yeah, well, yeah. Her name is Beth size some Shiites. Okay? I we Jeffrey when he applied to be an intern at the radio station. and. We immediately knew that this guy was. Called, yes, he was great. He's very very strange. Strange Guy Dan Rights now Dan doesn't right Dan knows a Dan. That's on the phone. Let's go to him. Dan Good Morning. Good Morning. I'm doing all right. I sent a question. Case files. Tying maitland. Salary up for. Graduation and all that. Like why Jeffrey always responsible for knowing that when very it was. Just sitting at home doing nothing. Not Stop like that. Doesn't I don't know if she's capable of handling stuff like that? She does she is able to make Oliver Doctors Appointments I. Don't know if he if Dan is cleaning the kitchen up with all the pots and pans and everything just. The back of a cement mixer, yeah! But Maryland with may not be capable of doing that. She is capable of making Oliver. Doctor's appointments. By. Any sort of I mean let's let's be honest. Jeffrey is the most high functioning of the family so that you tell you something, and we and you know Jeffrey and found with poop on his arm. Twice that we've seen it so feasible functioning. I don't think. The rest. I don't think she has email. Because all the emails got Jeffrey and he doesn't read them, she has well now i. asked him yes. She she did you sign up for plenty of fish? Think Jeffery was getting spammed on that I think she wants to jeffords email because he kept seeing alerts like you have a new match in Lakewood under plenty of fish, account and jeopardy's like. What is this I'm not on plenty of fish. So. I don't know if she has any male smartphone. No, she doesn't have a cellphone on Now I'm surprised that she wouldn't know that you could sign up for a free g mail account or something. Get our own email, but. So I, don't. Know whether she would be able to actually. She does Tobin Watch medical videos a lot, so she can handle that, but. Matt you'RE ON ROVER'S MORNING GLORY? Good Morning Matt. Good Morning Robert. Hey. What's up how you doing? Yo Hey i. just wanted to tell you about that. Corona virus thing they they are definitely bump in. The numbers of my wife works at a local main hospital. And She had patient just last week. That pass away from a massive heart attack. He did test positive corona virus during the autopsy, and on his death for receive it was. Marc died from corona virus. So it is. It is true that they are bumping up these numbers for some reason. About this I don I. Don I'd buy your wife's story to be honest with you. I. I well I did just look into it and snow says it's false, so I mean I generally believe what they have to say, but WHO's to say. The Corona virus caused the heart attack heart attack right? It does affect blood vessels significantly. There's off shoot disease that is affecting children. Because of the way it affects blood vessels differently in different people. The Kawasaki Disease Thing. When they think mimics that. Yeah I agree with you there. And if that was the only case that I knew about her that she knew about that, she told me about. It but I mean. You know it's motor vehicle accidents. It's things like that where people you know, they shouldn't be marked down dying from the corona virus at all. Where are you hearing that people in Motor Vehicle Accidents? You're hearing that facebook off of. My wife works in a hospital and reads the deficits. She. She goes through with her patients on if she has a why. Why are you so so you're telling me that? The hospital gets the motor vehicle victim, and then just writes them down is dead of Corona virus. What will basically how it works is in the computer is is how everything's run, so there's a code for you know. If somebody pass from a motor vehicle accident, or if somebody pass him heart attack, there's also code that if somebody is positive or negative for the corona virus, and there's and I. I don't know obviously not in the medical field. My Wife is, but she tells me how you know how it's going there. and. Something with that code when you put that code in that, it's positive for coronavirus that bumps it to. Cause of death believe it I just don't believe it I. Don't believe your story. I mean your wife can tell you whatever you know this I. Just don't believe it. I worked in hospital and the number of conspiracy theories. Running around a hospital is it's crazy. Now that was a state hospital, but I, just I just don't believe this. This doesn't even make sense And A this frog on pretty easily uncovered. Discover if your wife is is, is privy to this. Why wouldn't why isn't she whistleblower? Why doesn't she turn? Yeah ever called the news. And take some evidence. My wife doesn't WANNA. Take a front like look like that. She's She's okay sticking her head in the sand, but I mean I agree with you I mean I if was in a position, I probably would do something a little bit more, but you know it's Kinda hard to prove anything like that. You know I mean. Most medical records. And things like that. I don't know it is something to think hard to prove. If a person has broken neck, clearly, they've a broken neck. And they died of something with their neck, and then it's marked his krona virus. That's pretty easy to prove. It is. But did they die from the broken neck or did they die from the coronavirus? You don't always die from a broken mack well, probably, if you just break your neck in a car accident, that's what killed you. I. Think it's ridiculous. Isn't happening though I just WanNa be clear that. This just is not happening. It's. You know you can hear the listeners out there. This is coming from the ground floor. This is happening I'm telling you it's. Happened, she decided not so well. If you provide me proof, I'll blow the whistle on. This sky will get well, and you know that there are There there are rewards for whistle blowers so for instance if you find that the governor. Realize! Now you don't have to do that, our government will actually pay you so if you find that. The government is being ripped off. And let's say that this hospital has done a million dollars worth of fraud on your covid patients. There is a law that when you are the person who reports you get a percentage of that money, so if you tip off a billion dollar scam, and you get twenty percent or whatever so you would actually get money. Your wife should. Absolutely, this isn't happening. That's why she can't blow the whistle. This is this. I'd love to talk to her. I but I doubt I have a feeling. I doubt that she would be willing to come on, but. This just isn't happening. I can assure you. It's not happening, but all right man thank you. This is one of the biggest conspiracy theories right now. This is going all over this exact one. You're on rover's morning. Glory Good Morning Ryan. Good Morning Roller. Hey, are you on musk was on June, removing last week, and was saying that say he was Yvonne Mosque is mentally unstable. Honest to Gary Using Elon Moscow by the way doesn't know squat about this second of all. This is the guy who said he was going to donate a bunch of ventilators to hospitals. And what did he give them? CPAP machines people that have sleep apnea, not ventilator. That's who you're gonNA. That's who you're gonNA take as your. Your prophet with this I mean that's crank. I believe the guy that called his worth as possible. But Moscow has a dog in the fight wants to open his business back up and he does. Yeah, if you're saying. The numbers are inflated gives him 'cause to say hey, we need. Help them back up. Nobody's actually really dead. How would he know that? Ryan. I'm sure he's friends with a lot of high ups. And I was. Willing hold on those high ups are willing to say anything. But, they will tell Elon Musk. I got the high ups that he knows that would. That would out this huge conspiracy. multi-billionaire I mean he knows the leach. I. Don't know right, right. Here what I? Block the last time he was on that dude show to yes. This is the same guy wanted to build a mini submarine to get those kids out of the tie cave, and all the expert says not GonNa work. Because you don't understand that these caves are curvy and up and down. You can't have a ten foot submarine that's made out of metal and have it traverse through this this cave. So this guy I wouldn't do after that well, then he called the guy that actually rescued them a pedophile. Yes, and now he's got sued for that. This guy is completely. Mentally Unstable Alana's. When he gets this. Call you back in. You Hope you say ten when He. What. Tomorrow's how. Smart and unstable usually Oh, hand-in-hand by the way whatever whenever he says he's going to get us to Mars triple the amount of time it takes. If he's so smart, why doesn't he ever meet any of his deadlines? I mean. Don't you have a Tesla roadster I do? Well, then, he, he's pretty good at what he does, I would assume. Yes, he's unstable, but I mean I tend to believe. Aright. I Believe you own and you believe? Bill Gates then. I! Don't WanNA. Get into all that you just curious because bill. Gates he's got a lot of You know high up in. So Bill Gates. He's a lawyer. And trying to make He's not trying to make vaccine for the whole world, is he? Musk is trying to get US factory started back up, so he can make money. Would? Him. And Bill Gates Not GonNa Bill Gates. You think you think the one of the world's. What does he top three richest men? You think that here is like you know what I need to do. I need to unleash a virus, so I can then develop a vaccine and make some money. He's already the world's richest man. That That's something you. See All right Ryan. thank you. yeah. Yeah Hey again. I say at least once a week. The world is getting dumber and dumber and dumber. These someone called me after the show. Last week. and. We were talking about something some conspiracy theory. Nine eleven became part of it veered into nine eleven I. Forget how the conspiracy theory started. It was some other conspiracy theory probably regarding this. And someone called me after the show and they said wow. I can't believe you that three people in a row. Who Crazy calling about nine eleven being a conspiracy, I said it's not hard. It used to be a fringe group, but now this is mainstream. Because panel. All the phones were filled up with that all the morons. Where the hell was I I've got to take a break. Do you. Do have these busy coming up the news what they have on the way. and. There's a youtube new reality. Show that. I think rover you could participate in, and I think you might win it. I'll tell you what that is and Tragedy Strikes Melissa. Ethridge Melissa, Ethridge, you know the singer. Horrible situation has happened to her and her family and I'll tell you what it is coming up next. We'll be right back on rover's morning. Glory. Hang on. Luke Mass. Rover's morning glory is on your smart device stellar to play one hundred point seven Wm as on iheartradio. Rover's morning glory. been verbally assaulting the population for years that their time is up joining the movement. You're not alone. You are Hashtag. Ram G too. The Moment, the news. On the way. There's Youtube reality show that has something. I think you'd be interested in what they're doing. I think you could win this competition. I'll tell you what it is coming up next. Let's Tragedy Strikes Melissa, Ethridge and her family. Strange, story a lot of details, but I'll tell you what the stories about now all right? We will get to that shortly. I T going to be on the show with us this morning via video chat. Maybe if it works, we'll see who knows fifty fifty I'm so excited for this. You guys pump for it. Yeah he he has. A. Something called equal standard a movie. Is this like what is this exactly does she explained it to me? So it's GonNa Stream. It starts tonight, and it's a movie that kind of gives you the look at life and death, and that struggle between black men and law enforcement. Like cops, so it's so in the news right now that it's a perfect time to talk about what's happening in the news and talk about what he's doing. He's executive producer of the. So. Be able to extreme at tonight and he'll give you more details, but he wanted to come on and do the if you would just WanNa do the foul, and that's fine. If. You want to do the the video. We'd love to try to make it work he wants to. If, we have any inches agreement. He wants to look really. Tragic stare me down. Intimidate me. I'm not going to be intimidated. I probably agree with them. All out of the I. You know I don't know exactly what the project is, but I'll probably agree with him on a lot of it, but I also think that there may be a few disagreements that I might have with him regarding the the situation so. We will talk to him at around nine o'clock this morning. Save Your on Rover's Morning Glory Good Morning Steve. Whatever I'm doing all right. As in the country. Let me ask you kill JFK. Oswald. Yeah. Is that what you believe? Well, who do you believe kill JFK? I don't have any idea who did. It. Wasn't. You know that. If you believe also did it by themselves. You have no credibility, so that's what I was checking. who did it ever hear about? That doesn't need to be answered Charlie just the fact that he knows for a fact as well didn't do it so therefore. Who did it is inconsequential? That's right. Yes, anyhow, Steve. DuNno know who did it, but like Denison it's. Got Elected his work like less than one hundred thousand dollars in twenty years of being in Congress. He uh, amassed a fortune of nine hundred eighty thousand dollars something. Anybody was a good job to do. They says people that. All these people get elected. There are two hundred thousand dollars in two years worth five million in five years ten million. So let me ask you. Something called on you, so he amassed. He's talking about this crazy congressman. I can't even remember I. Mean Maybe People. Remember I don't know. So. He amassed nine hundred eighty thousand dollars over twenty years right. Anybody with a good job could do okay, and you think that that's crazy or you think that he's accurate. I think that's what he said happening. He was able to do that over twenty years. Okay, because. He's saying that people that get elected. There were two hundred thousand dollars in two years with five million in four years or ten million. He wondered how they're doing it. which obvious. They're. Taking money from people. I didn't want trump to get elected, but now that he's elected. I have realized politicians are the most worthless people on her. Wares than but besides their worst lawyers. If you WANNA talk to somebody talk to Dr, ten Penny Middleburg is. Usually bump ice tea. Let's get back to. Their. Own. You're crazy. You don't know anything just like everybody else. Sue Say I've done forty thousand hours research on infectious diseases and you've done how many hours the research. DON'T DO PENNIES A. Break Down for me on ten Penny Charlie. Anti Anti Vaccine Person. Causes Autism okay I understand right, okay. All Right Steve. Research. Yeah all right Steve Thank you. I appreciate it okay, flat, attuned, no more crazy people on this stage. Are you ready for the Shitty? Here we go. Shoes our role was morning glory. Safer at home ordering Wisconsin was struck down by these. States Supreme Court yesterday. After the court, said the administration of Democratic Governor Tony Evers had abused their power when it extended the order through late May I a four three vote. The court ruled in favor of Republican lawmakers there who were hoping to block the order that was issued so according to the ruling. All future lockdown orders must be approved by the legislature so people are. They WANNA go out. People want to get out. I, don't know whether I. Agree with this or not. I mean. I think that you could make an argument. I've made the argument that. Our response has been overblown, but. I also understand the need for governors to be able to issue. Emergency Mandates Insert circumstances. I'm surprised at the number of people, and they'll send me videos and stuff of. The. Government is taking away our rights. This is all part of a conspiracy rover. You're an idiot, don't you? Don't you see the bigger picture of what's happening here? Apparently these people think that like this is our new reality for the next. You know for the next five years. We're all living under house. Arrest or something I. I'M NOT I'm not concerned about this at the moment in fact I'm not concerned one bit now. Those those people who email me just saying. I'm naive and I. Don't understand that what the man is trying to do, but. I also don't understand. What is the? What's the government's motivation for this? Less revenue from less taxes from no one working right, that's that's the that's yeah. That makes sense so I don't know all right. Go on! Well former Vice President Joe. Biden will take part in a live. When our virtual town hall tonight, it'll be ten PM. Eastern on MSNBC later in the hour. We'll have a Georgia Democrat Stacey Abrams. She's going to join the event in her first joint television interview with Biden. They're going to. He's going to have her as his running mate. What does she done isn't she? Just like A. Car Well. She didn't win her election that she was in there Wasn't she? Just like a state lawmaker. Something I hope that's not the running mate, didn't she do? She did the Democratic response to a state of the union, maybe or something along those lines that where she may be gained a little more notoriety. Of Pick I, she was running for. Governor there. I think right, but she wants Oprah. Oprah bags and you lose I. I don't know if you're A. I don't know if you're a winning candidate personally. I also think it's strange that. I mean she's just as far as I know. Only run only held. Like a state lawmaker position I I don't know if you're ready to be vice president of the United States at that point, I mean people talk about Obama how he was unprepared. Just a constitutional law professor senator. I think those are good qualifications, but These qualifications I think are are thin I. Get it I. Understand what they want. They want a black woman. It's good optics as they say. but Forget that I think you need the right person for the job and I. Just don't know if this is. I mean. Would you guys feel comfortable? Electing Person President of the United States. Who has that little experience I? Mean Mayor Pete for instance didn't have a lot of experience Pete, whatever his name was. Approved. Yeah let the President Right now rover. Have, thought that was a joke. Yeah. Well. Right I'm not an idiot. I didn't vote for that. Come on. So I. Don't Conway. Comma harass. You might pick her. WHO've. Experienced, but she's so tired. She is very anti. Is You say hard? She's just harsh she. She wants to federally legalize weed so I'm all for your in all right so all matters healthy Gabbard. That's definitely not going to happen. Russian. Spy here. Probably seen her in a bikini What got up again? Paul okay all right place. Yes, what about Stacey Abrams in a bikini? Have you seen those photos? Those are how. I go Lizzo I. Women Entered Yellowstone National Park illegally this week and she suffered burns when she fell into a hot spring. Yellowstone has been shut off to the public since March and this of course because of everyone trying to stay safe, so she was like. I'll just go in who cares if it's closed. And officials said that she was taking photos near the old faithful, old faithful geyser, which she fell, and despite the injuries, she was able to get back in her vehicle and drove. Fifty miles before she was able to reach Rangers. They stopped her she was in. To a burn center in Eastern Idaho, so she could have died. It's how do you? Heard of other stories of people falling in. An I've never been there. Is there an edge to these things or do you like? Walk up close to the edge and then the ground somehow. Collapses like. It seems like a pretty easy thing not to fall in. I-. Backwards. Comes out. They're not in steam comes out now. Sometimes we will fall in like one guy fell in, and they couldn't get his body out because he fell he just he just melted essentially when I was in grade school I went out there with my parents, and we saw old faithful, and all that and I'm pretty sure it's just a railing like you can easily crawl under it or something. There's just always people there that stop you from doing it, but if the park has closed, there's nobody there but again don't. Don't you just common sense? You can climb over a railing, but you still are you going to go into, or are you saying that the guys are sprayed up? And then the and then it landed on. Her is I would no, I. Don't think it's that far fetched. We've talked about this before. You GotTa do it for the Graham. She was trying to get the best photo she could. You know it's all about the loud, so that was a very memorable home school field trip that she took. It was definitely. The last person that fell in and they're saying. The the person completely dissolved within twenty four hours. They couldn't even get a body. They might have gotten like one shoe or something have out the. Out of the thing and slow and painful. You Know I. Don't know how slow it would be I. Mean Says Right here. It's like being eaten by a sarlak on I. Don't know what that is. Incredibly. Is that as a star wars reference. While the fat fellow that are Lakpat, so this is this is obviously. says. You're reliable source of these getting this information. They compare your death in A. He's got. A joke. Alien, it was a joke and I thought Sarlak was like some sort of chemical or something. There's less. Right, bug. do you have the Tulsi Gabbard Bikini photos, Charlie. Rover I I WANNA. See those. ALKA CHAPRA. That's PAD MA or Wherever you know, yes, from top shattered as? Well then WHO's this? Job. Here's the scar on the host. I thought she looked like Padma without. Looks like. We really expect. The Guy who thought Boo Silenzi. Why would we? Trust, that guy and This is her nose nine. I'm telling you. Padma ever watched chef charlie she used to. Yes. I've seen it I thought this looked a lot like her and I was like. Wow, this looks bad. It's bad mouth gums right a major scar on her arm. This chick has scarring arm. Look it. Now. All, the says Tulsi Gabbard. Here. I'm just going off. What Google wrong correct. Up In there these are all all right her. Go back to the one in the in the in the red Charlie the. Top left now make that one full screen. See it in this one. I have it there. Is that Tulsi, Gabbard or not? No, no. No no way. Can you get me a photo of of Tulsi. Gabbard Face Charlie. You Kidding Rover! Yeah! I don't know one particular. This I have never seen. Top Chef. No, never below the weight different person. Oh, my God I thought. Asthma. Pad. I mean she's hot, but she hasn't looked like Padma. Well. TULSI has bad skin like she looked hot until you actually see her in an interview. That's HD and you go. Oh, really okay. I don't know enough about her own. These keeney pictures which apparently are all wrong. How do I? How do I get You when you Go over a speedo. It's like movie, stars or something you know. Eighth them. Youtube is launching a new reality show next week. It's called sleeping with friends, but it's not what it sounds like. It's a three part series where people with sleep issues compete to see who can get the most restful night's sleep. Producers film people in bed, and stretches to the foreheads to track their brainwaves, and then each day they look at things like how much rem sleep rem sleep they got, and then they give them tips for improving their sleep the next night. Apparently, the person who improves their sleep the most wins exposed to educate viewers on how to rest up hits. Youtube next Wednesday, because that is mental health awareness week. So is in the UK. It's mental health awareness week, but they're going to. Start this next week on Youtube I. think that's kind of interesting. Especially people that have sleep issues. I don't know if you would be interested in that rover, but once you sleep, you fall asleep. You're out totally for a whole day. I woke up engine forty-five though. I looked at the clock is to forty five am. Woke Up. Have you ever done this I'm pretty sure I dreamt this. I dreamt it. There was a loud noise like on the on the like something. Hit the window Yes, have dreams like that I will occasionally have like that where I'm like I. think that I heard a loud noise, but I didn't actually hear a loud noise shirt. Every time I think I. Hear, somebody, walking or dislike, something weird. Yeah in the window. That happens all the time. They're not wake up and then I'm like. I'm like I. Think I was dreaming, but I have to be sure so I want to stay. I want to stay awake for like sixty seconds. Just in case, someone's breaking into the House I want to be caught off guard. But Yeah I think I just dreamt that to forty five this morning, What were you saying? Did you ever get the doorbell? The door boat. Ranked all the time. Yeah, I. The doorbell is ringing. And it's not actually ruining a in fact. It's freaked me out a few times where I'm like. I know I heard the doorbell. At Three Fifteen PM, or whatever if I'm taking a nap? And I go back on the security cameras. Doorbell rang. But it's weird. I, don't know why that happens. You get clear the house every once in a while when that happens like in the middle of the night. Sometimes, if I think I, hear a noise, I have to get up and go look around. Too Lazy to do that? You so you wake up, you would have gotten up to forty. Five am and times depending. The House depends on how much I think. It was real versus a dream, because I'm the same way as you guys all have those kind of things, but sometimes it so much that I'm like have to get up and go. You know clear the house. Make sure there's nothing in here disliking fall back asleep now I assume that All wake up if they come back into the bedroom at that point and then just shoot him. But now I've never. I've never woken up and thought that it was and then the one time I. I was really freaked out because I heard a loud crash and I knew that this loud crash was. Close and real. And it freaked me out. I grabbed the gun. I'm like I'm ready to kill someone. Because I know they're coming in? and. My. Wife usually freaks out. I mean I rolled over two nights ago I just rolled over and she of bull, and she like freaks out. Sit Straight up. What's what what? What's Go and I'm like? What what? What's going on? What's happening and I'm like I just rollover psycho. Okay? Then she goes back to sleep. She's the lightest sleeper breaks out over everything. My girlfriend does the same thing over what she wakes up and fixers bugs on her. She wakes up in search grabbing at the sky, going Oh my God what's going on? spiders like falling from the sky honor. I, just sit there and watch. Psycho. What are you doing? so she this while ago, so she wasn't freaked I hear this I'm like Oh my God I grabbed the gun. She sits up an I'm like freaking out. I'm I'm. She's just looking at me and I'm like what the hell was that and she's like. That was the mirror in the shower, just fell down like we have one of those suction mirrors in the shower and it fell. It was so loud. It didn't break is made out of plastic, but just falls reverberates. It goes. It goes I mean it's really really loud. And so that really freaked me out, but she was. She's like I knew immediately what that was I go? How do you have freaked out by me? Rolling over in the middle of that? You're like no big deal. Is that it or are you still have store just one last story rover, and then I'll end it since some sad news for Melissa Ethridge and her former partner. They had a child together, so she was pregnant back in one, thousand, nine, hundred, Ninety, eight, they did artificial insemination. It was Melissa Ethridge and her partner Julie. Cypher remember the story of ninety eight gave. Me He was the artificial insemination. Sperm, they had a baby, but that son Beckett Cypher, who is twenty one years old? He died, and it was a struggle with opioid addiction. So when he died, we didn't really know what was happening. And then there was a statement that was released Melissa said that I joined hundreds of thousands of families who have lost loved ones to opioid addiction. My son Beckett, who was just twenty-one struggle to overcome his addiction, and finally succumbed to a today. person, before. The son I've never. I've never heard of him, but I knew that she. was, you know her partner, whatever it was artificial, I knew that the David Crosby was the sperm dog. Why don't sad, but I got my phone went off with the CNN news alert about this and I was like who is really talking about so I just wondering if. Know. The story of about revealing who it was, but otherwise I mean, he hasn't been I I. Don't know if he's been in the spotlight per. Se Like we've known anything about her son, but just how he got. You know the father of that. So very very sad news. Zee On rover's morning glory. Roper streams just streams with our NTT. Watch the show AT ROVER RADIO DOT COM. Charlie you should get a CNN news alert. And, it was someone that you didn't know. It's kind of like The bracket that I saw that I'm a part of. I have a there's a march madness style bracket of the. Worst ohioans alive twenty twenty. Giving me. I've made into the sweet sixteen. Right. Now grants. Well, I don't know but I so far. I have beaten out Kevin Kelly, whoever that is! Then I beat out Charlie reader whoever that is now I had to google a lot of these people on the worst ohioans alive. currently I'm up against Josh Mandel who is a politician. We've had him on this show. I can be. Next. Way Worse than here. Yeah, I definitely way, whereas however at that point. I will be facing. Probably will be facing Mike Davis. Who I believe is going to. Beat Melissa Atkinson I believe Melissa Atkinson as a politician. I'm not sure Mike. Davis is a former TV. Weatherman, who was found with sixteen thousand child porno images on his computer, the same guy that was photographed with jared from subway. If you remember that, remember the guy that was pop for. Porn Yep Yep. So how water your? It looks like I'll be going against him in the elite eight, we gonNA. Votary. We're going. Get your credit. bummer download. Yes. Never, mind. Over medicine to? Go for. Years. Now. You're going to have to download seventeen thousand pictures foreign to beat him a little a little late Charlie. Would have been funny. Funny. Forty seconds ago. Yeah! All right so I I have to do something really horrible in in the next few hours to possibly. Be Able to how do we vote? You know I don't know I have no idea where this is. Even from a girl sent this to me and sent me the post on facebook now I don't know how you vote. I don't know if I don't know who's putting this together. Or if you can vote or I don't know anything about it, but I was just pride on this bracket. You can't beat Mike Davis because. Yes, what he did is terrible. What? He doesn't have the name recognition. You have the name recognition of all these people I. Don't know most of these wellness. There is one thing to my credit. I've already made it further in the competition and T J lane. WHO's a school shooter? Who actually killed? Show way. Don't count me out. I may be able to go all the way on this and be the. You'RE GONNA have some real competition? If you were to get further against Rock Turner? Jim Jordan who has just Jim Jordan slimy politician Cook. Or Brock Turner. That's the guy who was in college and. Basically raped a passed out drunk girl. and was sentenced to like a week in jail or something so he he's in the competition I could face. He's in a different. I don't know what they call a bracket, or whatever but I could if I, if I get past the elite eight I could make it to the final four against Brock, Turner or Jim Jordan. Ernest Ainsley televangelist is also in that group I could face him so there's some stiff competition all around, but please don't count me out. I could be named the worst Ohio live Jeffrey's favorite. Child cages on there that he always references. Locked. In a cage three years varying there are they study? I'm wondering they in their because. Those are pretty awful people in. Here to remind us the caitlyn Bennett is still in it. She's made it to the sweet sixteen. That's the gun girl. The girl that goes around with pooper pants who I don't know if she brought her pants but I i. don't know, but she's the one that's open. Carry Gun girl that is doing it just because she got some media attention and it's really obvious what's going on there. Now. She runs around with a with a our fifteenth strapped over his shoulder all the time I worked for Info wars now. It's very so I mean everybody else though James I Google these people James Alex fields. I believe is a Neo-nazi. He's still in the sweet sixteen, so I have a chance of taking him down. Michael Braille was one of those cops that shot the the couple like a hundred and eighty times or whatever from reloaded. Yet on the hood voted on. The Hood reloaded and. Yelled out. I don't know some marine phrase I forget exactly what it was number five. so He's in the sweet sixteen as well. Now. The rest of these people I really don't know who Tony George's Larry Householder. Timothy, Lohman I think is also a police officer. I think he might have even been involved in it. I, forget who he is, but I think he's a police officer shot and killed someone I. Don't know if that was the same incident. Different incident I duNno. Chris, Jordan no idea. I think I don't know Andrew Anglin I don't know who I. Really Don't know who most of these people are. So you're right? Whoever said that I have some name recognition. Maybe I can take this all the way and ride that that delist celebrity. That I have all the way to the end. Perhaps we can only hope right I. I think you have A. You're a good chance to make it to the final four. I hope. I help Sir Chris Jordan Rats. Yes, the head and I'm reading is Senator Chris Jordan. Forest wife to where electric shock collar. Well was in the proceedings from twenty sixteen. well, you know I might be able to have have him beat I. Treat my wife like a slave according to you right so. I. Don't don't count me out of this competition. I'll find a way to pull ahead. I've gotta take a break. We'll be right back on rover's morning. Glory. Hang on. iheartradio station dumbed down your smart device with rover's morning. Glory eligible one hundred point seven WM as on iheartradio. Climate changing the White House in disarray, Hollywood falling apart, not good from order to the chaos. The only thing you can count on his rover's morning glory. Let's this world coming to. Now back to the show. Allentown Pennsylvania. You're on rovers running the morning, Jim. What's happening? Products. He had a drug addiction. He was a singer and Cosby Phil Smash. It is strange how he was a sperm donor to child that he didn't raise. That died from a drug addiction but David Crosby went to Rehab, and he destroyed livery about a new liver. and. He put it now now. and. Probably the first time I listened to your show. You had an interview scheduled with him to discuss his new album. He came on the air. You were making small talk and some jokes. How thank you might have mentioned the drug addiction or Something he went to jail for, but it's that interview lasted like three minutes like totally fifty loss. He's like the Real Dick. I like the God minute. Four to. Not I think it was even less than three minutes I think it might. There are a couple of interviews that. That vie for the title of Shortest Interview Ever on Rovers Glory and he's definitely up there. What are you remember about this? He's the shortest I think. Lindsey Lowe Hands Dad was probably fifteen seconds were over. What about one question but? The Situations Dad. Was it somebody's Dad. Hands Dead. David Crosby Rover I. Remember Line they've across be goes is a Kospi or crosby. Crosby. Brasby. You crosby. He goes zero kill switch on this interview and you're like. Yeah I have a David, Lynch. Great. Yeah I. Think Mike. The situation whatever his name is. His father was on this many many many years ago. And? Why would you have the situations dad on? It would only be talk about the situation. The situation was in the news or whatever. And so we get is dead on, and he goes. I'm not GonNa talk about my son. I go okay and. That was just shortest one that was if that's the case. Has One of the craziest interviews I don't know. If you remember this rover, I know you do. Longtime ago one of the craziest ones and I think one of the main reasons why we don't. Tape Interviews Anymore Courtney love. Do you remember that? That was a long time ago. Adler! Crazy how we talk to her. She starts freaking out on. Rover, didn't. Her Age. Yeah! The agent calls back. She screaming in the room. She then gets back on the phone to keep yelling at you. And it was great and it was a mess. It was so good. Vaguely remembers along. Even know what she. I think it was because she had done something very strange I think she went like walking into a Wendy's topless or something like that. And I was questioning her about that like that's not a normal thing to do and she's like. A mental issue or something and she just went Berserk. I remember one. Way Back that was about to go bad, and then it went good. You were interviewing. Pressure was Mike D from, beastie. Boys. And you started asking a question and he started getting crabby and you said look. Here's the deal I'm going to ask the questions. You're going to give the answers that we're going to wrap this up. The guy completely straightened up and started answering questions in the interview went on. That was a long time ago. That was very long time ago twenty years ago, almost eighteen years ago I was one of my first real memory listener of the show. JEREMY IN SAN DIEGO! You're on rover's morning glory, Good Morning Jeremy. Wherever you. What's happening? Hey, it's crunch time. We gotta get you down to number one. You're in the sweet sixteen, but I got the perfect way for you. Okay all right. What are you have? You bracket the bracket of the worst ohioans alive, which by the way if you're listening to the shell somewhere? We're on all over the country, but I'm based in Ohio. Just because I love the weather here so much but anyhow. Yes, go on, Jeremy. Got I speak on day perfect. Unity. You gotta drop the N., word. ICY, oh! They can read. ME. Yeah, they could tell me all the way to the to the finals at least the final four I mean. For sure. Are Jeremy Tune in at nine, o'clock eastern and. Maybe I'll your advice? Thank you. You could mix it up rubber. Calm Ice Cube instead of ice tea. That's not as bad. That's not now. Follow it up and he goes. No, no, no, I'm ice tea ice cube and I go. Oh, well y'all look alike now. That that could propel me into the final four a comment like that. Right. Let's see here There are a lot of people sent me this story. This is a woman in Illinois. who was mauled to death by her own dog? She had a French bulldog. Fifty two year old Linda Earth show. was killed by her own dog and a lot of people sent this to me, saying look, it's not a pit bull. That did this. and. Finally there's one. Ball okay She? She had a boyfriend. Listen to this story so this this fifty two year old woman in Illinois. She has boyfriend, and she rescues these dogs. These French bulldogs I don't even know what French bulldog is, but Robert a tiny dog? This is the this is the look of French bulldog. I now, but that's why I think that. This was not one illegal French bulldog, because this one weighed fifty five pounds, and the photo of it looks like a pit bull. so it's probably a mix I'm guessing. So. This woman weighed one hundred twenty pounds. But unskilled, even before her death, let's let's go back in time a little bit, so she rescues these dogs. This mission she loves doing this. She has a boyfriend and the boyfriend was attacked by this dog. He required stitches on his shoulder and his upper arm when he was bitten on April thirteenth, he went to the hospital. And then he was bitten on the foot and the leg just one week later April twenty first he was bidden and required A. Medical attention so that. then prompts her to. I guess maybe when he goes to hospital or whatever they take this dog and they an a ten day quarantine, because it's a tax, someone. Saw Linda. Calls up on April thirtieth. She calls the animal shelter. And she says Hey I. WanNa come get my dog back, so she does. Picks up the dog. The animal shelter says hey, we had this dog. Its name was blue. It's two years old fifty five pound French bulldog since we didn't notice. Any aggression or anything? During the ten days, we held this dog at the animal shelter. Now they kind of have to say that after the fact. Whether, that's true or not, but she comes picks up her dog. She gets it back and what happens. That dog turns on her attacks her and malls her to death. She makes it out side of her house. She eventually gets away. She comes out like out onto the front porch. You like my dog is attacking me. Makes it out to the front porch collapses. That's where they find her that. Wow. Then they take the animal in. That French bulldog and another one they take it back to the shelter, obviously kills this woman, and now the animal shelter goes. Oh, dogs completely different now it's very aggressive. Just stares. You now tries to attack you, so we're going to euthanize the dog. As, soon as we can, I don't know if they've done it yet, but. You have a picture of French bulldog. Because this is just something to just. Charlie has sent you. I. Can barely hear Charlie by the way. You want to you want Charlie to be louder. I just I can't hear him. Well, he's he's digging around with volume too much energy I thought I literally. Mike is from face. Look far. The might really fast way. Paul breathing. It's too far away. The middle. Middle Graduates not in front of your mouth directly like half an inch away. Do. I sent Charleston last night because someone was complaining about him. They emailed me and they go. You've gotTA listen to the beginning of the aftermath from today. This is a daily occurrence it is, it's. It's really pissing me off. Charlie starts the aftermath any just screaming at the top of his long. is distorting. It sounds like trans. All I'm. Saying quiet, I am because rover keeps fiddling with my stuff. I'm not touched it I. Don't touch it. Yelled at me enough, you're in charge of my volume, and you've put it in some weird way that nobody year didn't mean to start a fight. Let's just turn them up a little bit, and that's it. I would like that I would love if you turn me up a bit. I don't talk. Touch my end. He's turned up unlucky volume and he's filed right. So let's see this picture. Chick! Chetan, do your job. Now that we can hear you. Okay I think this is. Not a Dog that I've ever seen It's a French bulldog. I don't even know what a French bulldog looks like little teacup little tiny. Tiny little ankle turned. Yeah Oh. Yes, that's. Okay, yeah, there's a big difference there, so then omniscient. That's not a French blog. Then obviously go back to that picture of her with the dog on the boat. Yeah, this is not. Like this. The. American pit bull second American bulldog. Pit. Bull in for sure. I mean. Come on. For whatever reason they? The picture they kept putting up with me. find the picture. They keep a baby ones. This Lady! Like, so you're like what this dog moulder! Like. That's kind of more normal. Dog If they'd tried to molly. You would just stop it right. There's no way they don't kill you. Absolutely, no problem killing a French bulldog with your feet or just strangling. It would do nothing to you, but this thing that she has huge. So all the pit bull people were emailing in the saying French bulldogs. To this isn't a French border. This is a piece this. Might be a French bulldog like quarter, French, bulldog pit bull three quarters right? Boxer. Cheese. Well look. This is any dog. Could potentially. Kill, you I mean. Maybe a Chihuahua would have a hard time, but. You have to be careful around these all sorts of dogs. I think anybody who's been bit by a dog. That isn't a pit. Bull is probably glad it wasn't a pit bull. I mean I just think it's that simple. Chur. And the people they miss interpret what I'm saying when I say don't have. If you have a two year old, you shouldn't have a pit bull Oh. My God I'll people go crazy. And Dog, and all of this and It's so loving I have on. It wouldn't hurt a fly you know. There's never been a two year old killed where the parents you know I knew. It was only a matter of time I knew that dog was going to snap and kill my two year old I just then care now. They never you never see. A kid gets face ripped off in the emergency. They go into the emergency room ago. Yeah I thought that was going to happen. It's always the same story I never thought that would happen. But the the point of that I tried to make is. If you get attacked or your two year old gets if your two year old gets attacked. Would you rather have it attacked by your golden retriever? Or your pit bulls. Think this very question right? Yeah, yeah! A cars. So. That is I've just said if you are attacked, you're more likely. To have serious damage. And a BB gun gets shot with a BB or machine gun. Any gun can shoot I'm Charlie. Anybody guns on. A BB gun could possibly kill me if it shot me somehow directly in the eye and somehow went into my brain. Sure a BB gun could kill me. What a regular! My head is definitely going to blast me not the gun's fault. It was. The other argument. It's the shooter's fall I raised that gun. Guns don't. All right. Jeremy, in you're on rover's Morning Glory Good Morning Jeremy. Worrying what's going on hey? Hey I haven't seen the picture of this dog, but. The There must be either. The newspaper got her on the breed. Because the French bulldogs are the small ones with the pointy ears and English. bulldogs are the big fat ones with the jowls, and the Americans are the biggest ones. And they look more like a like a Labora- golden retriever type. So. What this was fixed with that? They kind of pounds pat. Yeah, actually had an English sport full blooded and she wasn't like fifty five pounds. And that was an English. One! Yeah. So you tell me it's impossible French. bulldog weighs fifty five pounds. Correct unless it was genetically mutated some other. Stuff. and. I wonder why? Why was this dog so in the house? If it already attacked or boyfriend twice, she wanted she wanted to pick it up. It was her she was put into a ten day quarantine and she's the one who's like. Hey. I want to come. Get my dog that she got the dog killer. A couple of days later Yeah and attacked the boyfriend twice to go to the hospital. Get stitches. that. One time. As as George W Bush famously said, fool me once. Shame on you, we can't get fooled again as he said. So. Is this a French bulldog? Charlie? This is like a regular one. Yeah I was trying to find like a size comparison. This is A. Very small, and that's like a normal French bulldog size. Like the size of a pug. Maybe a little. It seems Mike might be a little more athletic than a Pug, but whatever this lady had. This thing is not out of French. Bill in Rochester. You're on rover's morning Good Morning Bill. Morning Hey i. just wanted to reiterate what you are both right or actually all you got to write. The dog was a shortage bull, which is an extension of the American pit, bull and so yeah. As usual, the media got this wrong and misreported. Maybe a reporter was a papal. Sympathizer in London. From that, you got totally right. All right bill, thank you I appreciate. That gotta take a break. We will be right back after this on Rover's Morning Glory Hang Romance. You can ask your smart device to play Rover's morning. Glory on iheartradio this is. Get waterboarded. been there done Nad whiskey waterboarding here he goes. Back to Rover's morning glory and I told you that. I woke up at two forty. Five. AM This morning and I. was convinced that I heard a loud noise. That's why took note of the time. But I I must have just ramp this I went back and I looked at the during the commercial break I went back and I looked at the. Cameras. To forty five and eighteen seconds a loud noise just. I don't so. There was an actual loud noise I don't know what it was. So I'm not going crazy. It woke me up. Your cat. No. It was like something falling I i. don't know what it was. Big and you know found it through the house. Is Your wife found it yet? I didn't I didn't look around I. Know Wake Up. She did not wake up. I think I might be able to play the. This will sound like coming. Row of this even. Yeah here listen. that. Was it right there? That's sound. Yeah. There's probably someone living in my house I was just talking about how you could probably live in someone's house undetected for a while. Like You don't even go in right, yeah! I mean they're guest bedrooms. These things someone in the house living there. Is Easily, and that you, you said those because you have some bedrooms or like one bedroom, the very top of your stairs where it looks like there's no reason to ever go up there. Unless obviously you had a guest over. Time you guys have been up there. L. For me a long time. I I don't ever really go upstairs. A probably the last time I was in I. Mean It's been definitely more than a month. Since I've been in one of those bedrooms I've. It's crazy. You think that People why why is that crazy? Why would you? Why would you have a reason to go into a spare bedroom in your home? Just, not going to part of a house for over a month yet make sure no up there. It's. Weird I mean. You, you go into your spare bedroom upstairs. Yeah I just switched out comforters I had a comforter up there that I put in my kids room. And I had I was looking for I. Mean I'm up there. Paulie, three times a week. Okay so you're using his. You said. You know I have A. Better. I didn't long time ago. I didn't know I didn't go up there at all and then. Starting it's crazy they. So, you never go up there. You'd probably want a year without going out there, but now I'm crazy. What? Now, I would go up there I'm up there all the time now, but man I always. Keen there. I hadn't so in my basement might show. My daughter has virtual dance classes through zoom and we use the basement. There's a bathroom down there. In one day she goes. It smells like. Rotten eggs. Something's wrong. Something smells I went down there, and it was from the toilet. If you don't flush the toilet, it's the gas. So shink to you need to. You need to run water in the sink. Pipe. is well what happens. Is the water now in that little you join at the bottom here? That's supposed to be filled up with water down there that stops the those gases from coming up artery her. The fart gases so okay over time that will evaporate so if you don't you know over months that will evaporate, and then that gas can come right up through a drainpipe so. How did that turn the next break, but I do flush the toilet, so wife actually does go up and she makes the rounds she does do that. Turns on the sink. In these bathrooms flushes the toilet in the bathrooms, and so I think that wrapped a month. Upstairs in a house a car. Yeah, you're trying to count them many. Toilets in your house, They can. Well I. On too. Hold on one, two, three, four, five or six, I think. Names. It's an include the day. is in the is in the garage I still have not installed that. I really want to install them. She got a dump. But although seven bathrooms our full. I it's it's in the garage. So I do WanNa, get that install bad. My mom gave me. That is a president that would be. Nice to have but. Since. We've been on lockdown, I haven't. Had time well now. Requires here's the thing it requires power. It requires electrical so. I have to have my father-in-law come over. And run! On outlet or something to behind where this day is going to go. And we're. Oh Yeah I'll just do. Not a plum. Electrical Water and electricity yeah. Youtube video probably figure that out. whacking. Take you live to. You talk about the actual toilet the box. Yeah isn't super heavy. It's probably fairly heavy. I would I would guess. Did get it in the garage though anyhow. So there was a loud noise. I don't know what it was, but I wasn't imagining that. B two's probably wanted to. Hold on! Are you got eighteen people? Talking at wants what flat attuned I said be. Two's probably got somebody living upstairs. That's why she keeps feeding all these snacks. Let you can't even go up the stairs anymore. Tired all the time. She's got a boyfriend up there. It's not even hard to squat. You're talking about how easy it is and people's houses. They're just like laid out on the bed up in your guest rooms, other people in their hiding in the basement or something years. They're living like kings squatting. Someone sent me an email. And this is directed to you. Dave Zhang. This woman rights. I never thought I would say this, but I need doozy's help. Way Back I remember. Do she talking about how there was an issue with her neighbors windows damaging her home. I don't know if this is having anyone else, but it's happening to me. My neighbors windows are reflecting on my house and melting my vinyl siding. Why paid thirty five hundred dollars to replace the damage siding in the fall. Now a few months later. It's already damaged again. We found a film to put on our neighbors windows, but they're refusing to let us have. The film applied even if we pay for it. How did you fix your issue? Is this. What happened to you? I. Have attached a couple of images here has. This one's a little bit harder to see so you can see this this white reflecting on the side of her house there Oh, but check this out look at the side and what's happening to the side of our house. Yeah so so the Sun is being the somehow being concentrated through her neighbors windows right onto the side of her house and it's. It's melting the vinyl siding. Yeah. Is this what happened to you, do she? Yes, but reversed so my window was the one that was getting the sunlight and it was. Projecting the sunspot onto my next door neighbor's house shows they're signing melted and destroy the side of their house. And I was I was just so upset because they spent thousands of dollars to replace that they get the new one. And then it started happening and I'd like to tell what I need. Let me just say this. If, you're siding company and you come out and you replace siding on a relatively new house. Your House I remember when this happened. It was a few years old couple. You know four years. See your neighbor's house for years old. If you're citing company, and you come out, and you and you replace this damage siding on a pretty new house. Isn't it? Isn't it a duty of yours to say? Hey, we can replace this siding, but it's going to happen again because I can tell just by this pattern. This is melting from from Sun. Reflection on on your. Switch to aluminum guaranteed business that your business will come out every couple of years. So they ended up. The next door neighbor ended up putting I believe I said whatever you need to do. If you need, you need to put. Something changed my window liquid. Tommy what you want me to do, and I'll do it, so it stops happening I believe they put some type of A. Reflector or some type of thing on the window of my house so that it wouldn't do that to their house and their houses totally find out. It was practical. Reality Bad I'm like well. They wouldn't let me offer any kind of money for the siting. And, then I said to that let me pay for whatever the film or whatever the thing is that you're putting on the window. Let me pay. I'll pay for that and they didn't let me pay for anything saw. False think about this woman's neighbors. That refused to allow that they go. Oh No, you're not putting any film on our window. Screw you. All you do. Siding and put up put up a mirror. Melts their house. Smoldering. Furious, if somebody else's windows. Well from a legal standpoint, wouldn't it be the obligation of the person who has the windows that are reflecting idea next door? Neighbor I mean I don't know. WHOSE HOUSE WAS BUILT I. you. Matters legally. I mean actually the house. That I was supposed to that I wanted to buy was my neighbor's house and I was going to look at that house it was they were finishing up building it and I went into the house. I live in now I went into. This went because I had to use the bathroom and I walked in. I'm laying. This is my home. I had to poop. I was nervous. You remember that rover. I, don't remember that but I've. Walked into this model home, it was already done and I. Just I never even went next door my house. This house was built I. The one next door was maybe like six months later. You're on Rover's morning glory. Good Morning Jim. Good Morning Rover Hey just WanNa touch base. What what what what they're seeing is. It's called what we glass Lowy acidity glass. It's landed on the interior painting of the glass that reflects heat to the warmer side, and it reflects that son back I've been on several inspections with this exact issue and there is nothing the homeowner who's having their. Citing Nelson can do about it. Insurance companies will say if it's a first floor. You know plant to treat. You've got a great that reflection up somehow between those two between those two services glass and and the siding, but yeah, this has been taken to court before, and there is nothing. The person that's having their citing melted can do about it. Can Catch fire if the delight is. Focused on that. Yet, because there's check this out this video. Of Building an England does big skyscraper was made and. It was melting the cars and stuff because it's just so bright. Oh, yeah, you're right. I remember this story now this is. The one you're thinking of was in Las Vegas. Oh but look at smoldering the grass right there. Earning charring a guys cooking an egg on the ground because. It's so bright and concentrations making kids cry. Melted somebody's car. There was one Las Vegas. Vegas that curved glass just like that. It was focusing A. Sunlight. In what they would call the death ray and the pool area so. As the Sun. Would you know as as the day will go by? The position of the Sun changes obviously in this ray, which is kinda slowly, move across the pool area, and if you've got in the way of this thing like he can just be laying there, Sunning yourself and the death ray hits. You and you're burning up in like a one minute. How long ago was that built? A long time ago, now this was a newer construction maybe ten years ago. Weird because the cup one of the companies I worked for when I was gone from the radio station sold software I sold software. Where some of it, what they would you know? They ran models based on how the Sun would hit buildings, and how it would reflect and everything so this kind of stuff is incorporated into building design now, so it's crazy that a huge. Huge massive skyscraper they would build an and let that happened. It just blows my mind. The I don't know, but you can look it up. It was the death-ray it was. Man I don't know. What hotel it is, but it's I. Don't think it's it's like one of the others in that complex there. What's Charlie? Oh, there's a new story says. The VIDEIRA the. People Alive. She's looking people alive. The true. Seems, I. think that's a little over dramatic. I think what would happen is you'd be laying there. And you'd be. On Your Little Lounge share, whatever laying out and the death ray would would like I said it would move across and it's. It's a slow thing, but if you're laying there and it hits your back. Yeah, it's getting. It's concentrated sunlight and it's. You have to move like you wake up and you go how you know so. Yeah! If you stay if you stay there, you didn't move. Maybe we'll cook you alive, but. I don't think anyone was dumb enough to just sit there. I've got a question about like neighbors and stuff gum. My neighbor has a tree that's in my kind of lawn, and it's bothering me. Am I allowed to cut his treat out. It's in your. Problems at planted. In his yard. coming. Over my yard I. Think I think you can. Think of hanging I think he could trim that King. Get a chain. I think. I think Robert why not why it's actually it'd be you on. His trap notes not your airspace. He's Yeah Charles, straight. Airspace. I got like five hundred five hundred feet above my house or something. I think I pay an extra fifteen hundred feet so I paid extra. Bothering you you have to clean up after it. Leaves one guess. I. Own any trees that make leaves I just have. A pine tree, and there's an incredible amount of leaves end up in my yard that I have to take care of what I put a firepit in the back of my house and It's kind of underneath this branch and I'm worried. I'M GONNA latest tree on fire. So I need to kind of cut off. The branches. I would. Go for. Tell Charlie, and then, but what if he says no I? Don't want you to do that. You say tough, and then you just do it. Anyhow I think you can do that if it's if it's infringing upon your property I. Don't see an issue with that. Yeah Okay so you think I can just go. Just you're saying. They ask them, but then. Would be to notify him, and if a a regular neighbor like a normal guy, probably say knock yourself out unlike this woman's neighbor, who basically says tough. You're out of luck like what Dick's. What absolutely? The next door neighbor decks. And they just they don't want to do anything to help and. DOOZY! They put the film on your windows. Does the Film Affect Your? Your view out of those windows or anything that you've noticed. It's. It's an upstairs window that I don't open up like the shade. So big zeal. To me, yeah, that's why I told the guy my neighbor. I said what you tell me what you want me to do because it's inconsequential that window. It's not a window that I use every day. It's locked. Got The alarm on. It don't have to worry I. Guess I would understand though if I hit a window that I'm using every day I'm looking at I'm gazing out of this window and they said we want to put something on there. I don't think so. Burn your. Move It, you know. Normally it's a higher window rover, because it's the sunlight hitting it, and then it projects it down to think is what that was so. I think that's more the case where it's usually a second floor window where it's just then shooting down bouncing back, you can see the. I mean you could even see as this as the sun kind of moves you can see. The slowly moves up the side of the house. It's like that it is like that death-ray in Las, Vegas. Yeah are melting the siding. The Guy who called in who said that that's the low whatever and that reflects the sunlight off. If you put a film on it is that GonNa Affect Your your heating or cooling? Whatever that's probably it's. It's interrupting interrupting that, but how I mean on the side of your house. How many windows do you have on the side of your house? Is that really going to make that big of a difference I understand if it's every window in your home? Maybe would have an effect, but if it's one or two windows on side of your house. I don't think it would have that much. Of A of an effect, why not just cover the whole side? Your House and tin foil tastes their own medicine. Is. Charlie had put a mirror mirror. Hey John you're on rover's morning. Glory Good Morning John, you're welcome. Yo, rover name. Charlie's question there about the Bush hanging over on his property. By law. Any tree any Bush hanging over on your property, you can taught. So there got generally cut it down nine. Should he notify his neighbor just to be nice guy or take the change on? A whole I would go over and say hey, listen, this is an issue. What do you want to do here? And if the neighbor is an a hole, then he can go out Iki if the is not. The neighbors popular and he can't cut that down. He can only cut down. What's hanging across the property line right right if he says no build because I have this firepit I'll just make the fire. Huge light is tree on fire to. I mean it's up to. You can help you. I WANNA go. I wouldn't go and cut down whatever saying I done that. I've had neighbor stuff over on my lawn I I cut the branch down. Charlie! I. Do it to change charge. You just moved here a year into that house. Don't start fusing. Doesn't care how. Living there for a while Charlie what what difference does it make his next door? Neighbor hates on. More. Yeah exactly Person Punch Charlie in the face. This guy knows where I live, so that's the problem. Latest on fire all right, I've got to take a break. We'll be right back on rovers. You WanNa Glory Han. Hurt radio station. dumbed down your smart device with Rover's morning glory to play one hundred point seven W.. M. S on iheartradio. Relationship Status doing this because? Yes complicated with your friends. Just ended is not good. This is rover's morning glory. Later on around thirty minutes from now or a little bit less ice team will be on with us. Charlie. You were talking about cutting down your neighbor's tree. That is infringing upon your property? Here's a guy that. Gives you. The all of the rundown says by law. You have the right to prune to the property line straight up if he cut down his portion, that's timber trespassing, and you have to pay two and a half times the stump value of the Tree Charlie. That'd be expensive. Yeah, you don't WanNA pay half times to stump value whatever that Mike still working yes. It's working. Yes, the whole thing just fell off my desk. Okay I, don't know if our. I. Go all the way to the line I would go I would leave majority of it out. So I wouldn't get that timber trespassing. I just have a big limb. Hanging over the firepit. Concerned about at Chicago here's a guy that says fire pits Charlie. You've gotTA check the Law on those. You may be in violation with your fire pit. Fire Pits are wrong now. Yeah, they got to be certain distance from the domicile. Neighbors other soldiers. Shire's give me the rundown on your fire pit. So. I bought one of those. Sold as like a do it. Yourself firepit kit. Like really easy on that. I thought it was gonna be like just kind of putting like big kind of legos together. What is it like or something her? Bricks okay, so then I found out afterwards. It's incredibly more complicated in that first. You GotTa dig a hole. Right have some. I! Himself digging the hole. Oh my God I forgot how much Michigan sucks like that really sucked so first I dug this hole around it. And then Then after that so now I gotta dig like six seven inches down. Make sure it's level then. He got to get out your paver base. Guys, then you gotta go get the PAVER base bags and bags of paver base, which isn't cheap, either. It's five dollars a bag and I. Think I've like Fourteen fifteen bags in there and you have to. Then you've got to tamp is over the. Campaign is that big flat thing. Are you tapping that? He stomping that you gotTA. You gotTA. Stop it down level and then then you gotTa keep filling up. You gotTA keep throwing up a lot of a lot of work And then I'll then I have to go to I went to Home Depot and I didn't have a mask. The Mask and my car was girlfriends mask so you could see here. Panty! That rose mask that you have on it. Just flowers very masculine. Home Improvement Store in order to do as. It was two days of me out there just tamp ing and digging, and then moving all these goddamn bricks across my yard. And then in the end I got my firepit here you see it. They're. Just kind of small to treat. Where's the tree at? A Nice love. Above above the firepit right above it. All right. Fan Right over of. Okay. So that's the firepit. Two days, so you put all these bricks together and then there's like a metal. Sort of. Yeah, how much do this? There's no movie in the. How much of this firepit cost you? Will the fire pits like two hundred fifty, but then that doesn't include. How much it is to buy paver base shovels a tamper a caulk gun. Just all the other crafts really adding US pay total. Who knows I don't WanNa. Know Anymore I bought it because it was like Oh to fifty. That's not bad. That seems pretty reasonable, and then afterwards I'm going to Home Depot every other day. Just loading up on sts just crap. especially at Tampere I have no used for that now own. I'll never used it again for the rest of my life, of course for now you gotta gotTa put an path to get over to the flame or spot. That where you're calling it the flavor spot I'm just looking at this picture. This picture. I can't I can't I can't think of any other name I'm looking at this picture. This picture Charlie next firepit. The flamer and the fire their flame plus. The RV man living right RV man's right there behind me. You could see their. Guy That lives in V in my backyard, did you? Did you Did you check on the legality of this before you installed this property line? Absolutely not who would do that? Okay, I'm just. Jeremy says most municipalities have adopted the international fire code which prohibits. Burns which include fire pits really put a cage over it. You just gotTa buy one of those. What are you talk? Metal Cages. I'm just telling you. To fitting there, this looking goes yearly. This isn't what people are telling me. This is what people are saying Donald. According to the law, according to. Their coat thirty five ask to. You can't have an open firepit. They sell fire pits for reason. Legal? They would be selling hundreds of thousands of five years. What you have to do. Charlie you need to take every time you go out to your fire. Take a pack of hot dogs out there with you. So. If the police are the fire, show up, you say we talking about this. How I COOK! My food is a cooking area. This isn't a fire pit. Kate grill and cooking. I'm not here a love this work. Yeah, There's a work around. About my neighbor had a problem with the different neighbor because. They had a fire pit and the other neighbor could not stand the smoke. The smoke was blowing right into their window, and making one neighbors close, think like like a bonfire, and this neighbor could not stand it, so there was an ongoing battle to fire Charlie, so we might have. Might have been a good idea to talk to you neighbors first before you put this in also, there's a drainage not in your backyard. Did you check the pitch? I did you consider what you're doing to your neighbor's yard with this digging? Way. More drainage bad. Like he's more flirting. Just trying to. Think. About Dom. Go ahead well. I think you have a bad pitch. Those weird when I was out there digging I thought finally like make contact with to RV guy because this guy's at my fans and he's got a shovel. And he's like Oh but in a firepit hot and I'm like yeah. What are you doing? He's like this getting worms, and he's like this what he's just digging into the ground collecting worms, and it wasn't the RV guy and I go. Okay. This is really weird like I. Think R., V.. Guide might be like some sort of. Worm dealer and I might be living on like a worm farm or something because this guy is out there the. Guy That lives like an old RV just behind your house. Yes! Yes, aren't guys just? Broke both guys, so maybe he's land. Their land bulk is you're exactly right. What I don't know who this worm guy is now now you got a worm dealer in my backyard. That's. He's right on the edge of my property collecting all these. Worms and I don't know what he's up to with all these worms. Let me see here some people are saying Charlie that You're okay with your fire pit, but other people are saying. You're you're not? I think you're okay I think it'll be alright. Who's going to complain about that now? If you are smoking out the neighbor, you could have a problem you know. Suddenly starts complaining. I'll complain about our team and we can go. We can go toe-to-toe F-. Want I'm just trying to be I'm trying to have a nice time and just sit by a fire. It's not like I'm I'm not making an inferno I'm sitting. By a fire, when is the first guy bring back? Whenever, you're ready dumb. More time you can come to the flavor party. If you want could be the first gusting good guest of honor, and actually we'll throw for you. The King Flamer's. Garrett Iran Rover's morning glory. You're born a Garrett. Hey what's going on? What's? So I've actually talked to a fire cheese before for some steady, but. He was telling me that no most city. You can't have an open burn. But if you have a hot dog, he's s'mores or anything like that. It's been a cooking fire and there's nothing they can do about it. But if it is open burn, they can cite you for having an open bird. By the way. When you say there's nothing they can do about it pretty much wherever you live. If the government decides, they want to do something about it. They'll figure out a way to do something about it so if you go all. I'm just cooking my dinner back here. They'll come up with some other violation that you are. Oh well, you're not properly handling food, or you know your some something they will get. You are steps up to your front porch or not perfectly aligned or something along those lines. You they'll Dane wherever they can we'll. Charlie doesn't maintain his sidewalk. Where during the winter, he's the only one in the neighborhood who does not shovel a sidewalk in front of his house, which causes a hazard there. Either Don't. When did I did I? Not Do this. You've said that before. Hey said he didn't have. No blower? snowblower well, maybe now prior to having a snowblower. Before maybe this was this was eight year old house. Maybe this was before you moved into this new house. Oh I didn't. Know. I didn't own the place. No I'd never done anything. I didn't know my place. Now know that. When I moved in moved into December in that year I bought a snowblowers, so no this place I'm in charge, so I gotta maintain it the old place I was renting. That's my landlords I have nothing to do with that. I don't care if you break your leg over there People are asking the Worm Guy, did you? Did you consider he just wants to go fishing? No. This guy has got some various warren purposes. He didn't say. Rover it was forty five degrees out when I when I saw him. He's collecting these worms. He's going fishing UTAH. Also, you just go to bait pack of worms cost. What's to two dollars? Guys digging all these little holes in my backyard. To get worms, I mean it's any chance when I was a kid, we we used to go one of our family. Friends owned this this cabin by lake somewhere. And, so there was, they would fish and whatnot and they. This guy was a maniac he had. This This metal pole and he would stick this metal pole into the ground. And and then he would take this plug, and he would plug it into the electrical socket and this metal pole supposedly would send electrical shocks out through the earth that would drive the worms up to the surface there and then you would collect them now i. don't know if this actually worked or not, but that sounds crazy It was it was really weird, but maybe maybe it works maybe. For fishing. Yes, yes, either that or use part of that in the various worm syndicate that that you're talking about chancy wasn't actually digging for worms US actually test me out. You know digging for worms code for. Trying to dig for your Worm Oh, okay. Okay maybe I didn't very possible. I didn't play along. Though so now. I don't know if he's out there. Looking from the water's kind of like that's code that you were telling him to bring a hotdog. The flame party. Yep so I I tell the code that's going on between dumb and Charlie. Two love birds communicating in code rise. Yeah, yeah, can't get. Anything passed me. We do have. A ice tea. Who's going to be on the show? What do she is that? What in about ten minutes or so he? He's running. A jeans going to. He's running a few minutes late. And I just confirmed. He's going to dial in so I said just have him dial in. Video by the way her dog. Also. If you use your phone, you dial. Okay. You're on video. You just click boop again. So we'll see if this works. Yeah I. You that's a very good. Question will at work I. I think so I. Don't know we'll find you have headphones. He's A. Recording artist right he's gotTA. He's everything. There's nothing this guy hasn't done in entertainment or media period nothing. So, he should have a pair of headphones. Handy Charlie I. Think all right, so let me take a break. How late is he running Dushi? They said ten minutes behind. Okay, all right Oh Jeez on his own time man, so maybe we will. Do you guys remember this movie colors wasn't. Wasn't allowed to see it will. Y If you go back, and you watch US movie now. Like at the time. I remember when this movie came out, there was. Year, would this come out because I think? At the time and It. was. You know a big controversy because people are like Oh this is glorifying gang. Violence and theaters would have to hire police officers because. I don't know if it was a myth or whether it was actually happening, but at the time it was certainly a rumor that that gang fights were breaking out in the middle of movie theaters during colors. Listen New Jack City was another one that was like now you go back and you watch colors or new Jack city either one of those. You gotta go back and watch those movies check. They're really hokey they. Stand up to the task nowhere new JACKDAWS, you Wesley Snipes Dead Black that black. TURTLENECK that gold. Come on man. It's really Hokey now when you go back and watch us all right. Let me take a break. here's a guy that says worm. Absolutely do work. That's the only way my father in law will get worms. He won't buy them, so he's escaped. He just shocks. The worms right out of the ground gets them. Aren't there's a little bit of advice if you've never heard of such a thank? I have. Got To take a break. We'll come back She will probably do a quick chizzy. When we come back and then we'll get tired is tea. We'll be right back. Hang on. Radio station. Down your smart device with Rover's morning glory to play one hundred point seven W. M. S. on iheartradio. Through the pain. Stay for the last. Extinct around, and you'll never believe what will happen next rover's morning glory. Busy in a moment. Rapper ice t will be with us in. In a few minutes. Executive producer now. Well actor executive producer is. Did He produce this movie? And the story is executive person starting? In this is about. Like I can't shot by COPSES. What it is tensions between the African American community and the police community, so it's a work pure fiction than let's very timely. That's for sure. Keisha in Rochester New, York Year on Rover's Morning Glory Morning Kisha. Mine over Hi Charlie. I'm doing because I've been waiting to touch on what happened to Ahmad. Armory gunned down just jogging by those father and. And they were not arrested for two months. Out they were like trying to. I just GONNA. Say That because there spring break grace. Breaking there hasn't been any break INS for. Six weeks reported. You know before that happened and. I. Here's what I think about that and. This is the guy that there's video I mean. The whole thing is pretty strange, so there's two guys in there. They're in a pickup truck and they their arm. They see this this this. This Black Guy Jogging now. They claim that actually it's even a little bit more involved keyshawn I'm GONNA hang up with the coalition. There's some background noise there so. There is a house that's under construction and they get this. They have a camera in there that it has a motion sensor and it will send an alert. If it picks up motion. So the guy who's building the house two hours away. He gets an alert on his phone. There's motion detected on this camera and it's a guy who's walking through the hall blacker. So. He sends a text message to his neighbor. Who would agreed to look after the house? That's under construction. He sends a text message. And says, can you check this out? So they go and they check this out. Some other neighbors they see this guy. They believe that That he's been responsible for some break ins in the neighborhood. They grab their guns and they try to affect. I guess a citizens, arrest or something. Citizens Arrest. That's right. Yelled out now another neighbor. Neighborhood this is another neighborhood is following them in his own car recording the entire thing on cell phone. That's how we see this video. You've probably seen the video of this. This guy running down the middle of the street pickup truck stops in the middle of street. He tries to run around the pickup truck. Guy Gets out with a shotgun. A tussle and this guy is shot. Two or three times. By the guy with the with the rifle or the shotgun or whatever the hell it was. They say he he He he charged at us and you can't really see what happens around the front of that truck. Here's what I think and and the guy. One of the guys involved who was in that pickup truck. The, older guy is a former investigator for the. Prosecutor's office or something so ties to law enforcement. They're not arrested it. Eventually they were, but it takes two months in the video. The release of this video in order to get these guys arrested. Here's here's what I think is going to end up happening. I think that more will I? I think I don't think we're getting the entire picture of this yet. I think that. More will come out they believe that this guy they. They had an altercation with this guy. Just saw an article that said that they had an altercation with this guy two days before this happened. That we are two weeks, and and what essentially is the story behind that later? I forget what? I'm trying to think what it was, so the neighbor witnessed these guys. To him about something and there was some kind of dispute. As he was, he was breaking or going into this this home that was under construction. Yeah, he kept. Why do you keep going back into this spot? Yeah. So here's the video the shooting if nobody's seen it I, have it right. You could see it now. This is A. This is just a jolly acre. Yeah, yeah, he's running down the middle of the street. Looks like he's trying to run away to me. Looks like he's running go. Around and they shoot him. I mean it's clear that just. cold-blood! Well. I think if you go frame by frame on this, you know it's it's. You know I don't know. Unfortunately the. Unfortunately the video pans away? You Miss a little bit of it there. I mean if two guys are. Setting up a roadblock to stop you from running I actually don't run around the pickup truck. I actually turn around and run the opposite way now. Here's what's interesting about this. Though if you look at this Charlie and you look. He comes around, and then he comes right around to the Frank. He doesn't go like around the truck and keep going. He goes right at this guy. So. What? When did the first shot who shot him? I The guy in the back of the truck. Did he shy over the top or did the? All the all the guy at the front okay. Doesn't make contact with until he's already. I punched shot. Birdwell time I think he ran at them and then the guy shot him. That's what it looks like to me absolutely. Crazy me if anybody could side with these Charlie, not looking at this the wrong way, if you. If you're running around the pickup truck, you don't come you kind of you. Go around it. He's comes around the front and comes straight across the front, so he's not going around. He's he's like. Coming right at the guy now I'm not. I'm not blaming. Them? Nothing you know. No I'm not saying you're I'm saying that F for anybody to defend this. Not You anybody to defend these two guys driving around in a pickup truck with shotguns. You're so concerned. There's this guys breaking in all the cops you're not. The cops call the cops. Go I. Think the guy that's breaking in. They could take care of it, so go out. They well. Here's what happens. The people get tired of things getting broken into. And the the cops. Are you know there's very little they can do? And you go! This really pisses me off. I want to stop this son of a bitch and and get him arrested. So I kind of understand the mindset of people who are upset if they are the victims of break-ins ins. But. Why do they think this guy's the guy breaking them? Because, they just saw him in that house because he's black. Because he's black. That's why they think he's the one breaking in well. They've if there was an altercation two weeks before with this same guy. Then they recognize him, and they already suspect him being involved in some sort of breaking in that previous altercation Charlie. They're claiming the the neighbor. The story that you guys were just talking about earlier on the neighbor. One of the neighbors guy named Diego Perez. He says the two men had already approached the. The victim on February Eleventh Travis saw the guy in the yard, confronted the man halfway into the yard. He said the man reached for his race bent waistband and Travis got spooked and went down the road, so they're claiming that in the first altercation there he he may have had a gun because he put his hand in his waist. So this is them trying to set up why they were armed and the day of the shooting. And the same house right and the same same construction site wrecked. Also the first altercation also. Then interfering in this guy, just living his life, I mean keep bothering this guy now. They're chasing one time. They get an altercation with them the goal it might have a gun legally. He could on a gun. Those guys are legally allowed to own guns. Why couldn't this guy potentially legally owned a gun? What now because they're racist? Then the next time they have an altercation with him. They chased them down in their truck and shoot him in cold blood. There's no other question about what happened, but if you. If, he if he comes up, you and he's running at you to attack you. Would that be justified to shoot the guy. Why is he? Is He attack me? 'cause I'm pointing a gun at. And chasing him truck. Why wouldn't you already out or out of the car with the shotguns drawn? So why wouldn't you turn and run the other way if if you saw? I'm jogging down the street. I'm just asking I'm asking what the mindset is there I'm I'm looking at all sides of this. I'm trying to I. Mean Look I. Don't know what happened. I don't know who's at fault Obviously this, this is seventeen year old ended up dead. I have a feeling. We're probably going to find out more about this that. You know with this home. That was under construction. Was this guy breaking in. Was He doing I think there might be. The narrative that he's just out for a jog and that's it. I don't know. Maybe that's right. Can. You play that video again for me Charlie. Let me look at this year, yes. and you've seen all the other surveillance of him going in and out, but Right. I, you know I. I didn't really I saw a still frame of it. Jeez I mean and that guy so nonchalant after he does it. mean. Language doesn't seem like somebody. WHO's freaked out that he just shot somebody in my opinion at least I I mean I would. Think you would be freaking out that you just shot someone I know, but you're you're. He just shot someone on his say. Oh. He just shot. Someone in the video ends no joke. About two seconds after he shot him. Probably half a second after the guy falls to the ground and you go well. He didn't react. Look at them now. Just a little bit. Over your body language expert. Not I think that they didn't I didn't like. His action is reaction to seemed like those very nonchalant and that? Eight eighty two second window, and if a guy really is look if you give them the benefit, doughty thinks he's being attacked. What would your body language be I? Don I, you know. I don't know about Non Salon. It doesn't. Look I I. Think obviously there is certainly fault involved with these guys. I can't see what happened around the front of that pickup truck. Though I don't know, you can't really see it so. Did. Did this guy just charge right at the Guy Holding the gun? At which point the guy holding the gun thought my life is in danger and shot him, or was it the other way around the guy having the gun pointed at him, said my life's in danger. I need to defend myself and I'm going to try to take this gun from this guy my question is. If that were if that, we're your fear, why would you go around the pickup truck and Ron Right at the guy wider fly that why you that was his movement and choosing to fight I'm going to run around the truck and then break real fast left and try to charge the guy. I'm just telling you. Two guys in my neighborhood. If I'm jogging, I know it's hard to believe. But if I'm jogging, and I come up and my neighbor down the street and there's a guy with a gun. I. Don't go right by him and then come around the front of his vehicle, and then go straight at him I see a guy with a gun or two guys with guns. I veer off and I. Just start going the opposite way now again. I'm not faulting this this. This guy who was shot I. It's impossible for me to dissect it and I haven't gone frame by frame and looked at it, but I. It's it's hard to tell. Exactly. What happened you you and Charlie maybe write? These guys, maybe racist guys that. Took pleasure and killing a black man. Maybe that's true. I don't know who said that. Charlie, certainly implying that. No think they did what they wanted to that they. They wanted to get in some sort of gunfights. Good old boy justice and they did it. I think they accomplished. Their goal. There was a a news article. I saw they showed a snippet of the nine one one call, and he calls me just goes. There's this guy running down the street like I. Think he's up to something and the nine. One one dispatcher is like what makes you like? What is he doing that so suspicious knees like? Running down the street. Like, that's all he has to say I. think that's a little fishy. He can't even justify. Why did it to the to the nine one one operator? And then he goes and shoots the guy after well. Again. What he said on nine one one is inconsequential. If the guy comes around the front of the pickup and comes in charges you that changes the calculus there and. I. It's hard you know again. I haven't gone frame by frame on this video. But. It does appear that he doesn't. You know it's not a wide berth is if you're just going around that truck? It's around the front and straight at the guy is what it looks like to me now that. I have a question, did they? Did they meet up with him earlier in the job like was he i? Don't know the story enough. If they had he turned around and running the other direction away from these guys, and they bring the truck around again I. Don't think meeting with them. Think so but I. I believe that. We probably don't have all the facts in this get. That's why I don't I can't offer an opinion I. Don't know. It certainly is not. On the faith of it. It's it's obviously it's an unfortunate situation, but on the face of it it looks like what are these key? Country Bumpkin Hillbilly Jerks. Doing that's what it looks like on the face of it. I'm just saying there may be more to this that we have not heard yet, they're you know they're they're not. They're lawyers. Aren't there a? Sort of keep quiet and let this process play out. Bother you all for two months. Nothing happened until this video got released and people demanded justice. I mean there's something to be said about that. Why weren't they arrested for two months well because the various. Couple of the process as it was unfolding, a couple of the prosecutors recused themselves because they had ties to the older guy who's in the back of the pickup. The Guy who didn't shoot that's the father of the guy who did shoe. They have ties to that older guy because he used to work in the prosecutor's office so. They recused themselves when that happens. Then it has to go to someone else. The process China starts over that guy then recused himself goes to someone else. The process starts over. So. Yes I would say this that if it were you, Charlie. That did this or me or data? We probably be arrested that day. But. We didn't use to working prosecutor's office in get the benefit of the doubt, so I think that that has to be investigated. All I'd be investigated. Understand when you say that it takes a while and they have recused themselves. Yeah, that might take a day or two with two months is ridiculously long. Because like you said if I was to do. This falls on the back of a truck shooting guy. I'd be arrested later that day. But for some reason, it took two months in. Are you sure they're statement didn't change. Anything means that why. Oh I don't know again. I haven't been following this real closely right so either of ice art. Adam in Louisville Iran rover's Morning Glory Good Morning Adam. Hey Rover Hey. Just curious I definitely until like definitely want see these guys go to jail but I did see on facebook more videos of this. It was a video inside one of these houses for this one house at A. Suspect. This guy keeps going in and and you see looks just like him. And he white shirt, and everything and shorts, and it goes in there, and you see him looking around, and then that videos off I'm curious if you guys have come across that yet. I didn't watch the video. I saw still frame of it. I saw that it was out that alone to me. Doesn't you know maybe technically? Is it illegal to go until I home? That's under construction. Sure I can tell you that. On numerous occasions I've gone into homes that are under construction. To check them out across the street from my house. Right be that's construction. Now I can understand. Someone comes out and they're like. Hey, get off my property and they pull a gun on me. I. Go okay, well I am in the wrong, Ari, impress passing I. Am you know so I understand? It's it's It's probably against the law to do it, but it's a fairly common practice that people go into homes that are under construction now. Where did this guy live? Was He? Was He from this neighborhood? Was He just jogging down the street from where he lived? Did he drive over to a whole? Did he drive there to then go for a jog would be very strange. I don't know I don't know the answer to that. If you guys ever job, W, usually when you're jogging, you don't stop and go into a construction site. Resume Your job which I find suspicious. Usually you go and do your job and come back home. So. No I don't. Know I! Don't even know if that's weird if you're jogging and you. You know that this. House that's under construction is coming up and a half mile. You go I'm GonNa jog to that. That's going to be my breather I'm GonNa walk through this and then I'm going to get back to my job I mean you've you've never seen me jog theater? It's like a hundred eight, and then I go I'm GonNa have a heart attack. This is like a seventeen year old athlete. Maybe it's a little bit different, but you know so I I don't know if that's. I don't find that suspicious either really what I would find much more suspicious is. Where did this guy live in relation to where this incident took place? I think it would be very strange if you were to drive to a different neighborhood and jog there. That would be. Weird. Parts to. Running. He's not an appointment Harry to dragon. It looks like there's. Not a lot of the city and he goes what I'd like to. Yeah there's that weird at all to drive to a nicer area. Anything's possible I'm just saying to me. That's more suspicious than what has brought up and what other people have brought up. On thing I don suspicious. Was Him the long? There's a shot from a house across the street where you see him. Go in, and then he's running. Around the house, so he runs in one door out another and again. None of that makes it. Any reason to kill this guy, but it is weird that he's doing that. Why is he running? What made him run? Did somebody else spook him and made him run out of there or what caused all that? That's the gray area from the time he's in that house to that shooting happens. That's that gray area that needs to figure it out I think that. This is what I'm saying. We may learn more about this What was going on and I think it's very early. But we'll see. Steve and Washington DC Rovers. Good, morning Steve. Steve Hey. This is me rover so. WanNa bring up appointee, so you're talking about. The motivation of the young man was shot and killed those some interesting points, but let's let's back up for a second and talk about the two shooter. It's what was their motivation. Decided to, they decided to bring gone. To Confront Stranger who they. State was involved in a crime now. You, know it's one thing to say hey, get off my neighbor's property or whatever you're trying to protect your neighborhood I've had to deal with as a homeowner myself. But it would be really different. If I decided to bring a gun in a buddy with me, and confront someone then. There's an escalation there now. Whether this guy. You know you're asking. Did he run directly at them? Or there's some question about that, but they certainly escalated a situation by bringing weapons. They're not the police, and that's really smacking vigilante. Come and that's. I. I I'm not disagreeing with anything. You're saying I'm saying. Let's wait until all of the facts are in on the surface of this. It's a bad look. Obviously, I'm just saying. Let's wait and see what the facts are, and how it all plays out, and you may be entirely right. These two guys that shot that poor seventeen year old kid. They could have been out for blood. They could have been racist. They could be all of those things. Those may be a hundred percent accurate. But I wasn't there. I'm just I. Let's let the facts. Play out and see what happens and. Now Sort of appropriately you know what what? There is a lot of stuff about police shootings and and are. Black men a disproportionate victim of police brutality, and all that kind of stuff and You know who can answer. Those kinds of questions is ice tea. Who is hopefully? Our video chat works with him. Good morning, my man, how? Are you doing man. How are you I'm doing all right so you? You called in right at an appropriate time there because we were just talking not about police violence against a black man, but we were talking about that I'm sure. You've heard of the case. The seventeen year old that was that was jogging. and was gunned down by those two guys. And, this is what. I said in that one. Let's see what's let's see on. The surface looks bad I'll give you that, but let's see how the facts play out. Well, it's always going to be hard to explain how you kill somebody with a gun. Who is on our and that's a very difficult fight i. don't care what race what color where if you got a gun and I don't. I ended up dead. That's not a good look. How do you explain you tell that here's? How I explain it just because I'll tell you I am an incredible pussy I mean I like. I'm the opposite of you probably. I! You know I haven't been in a fight in twenty years I. Don't WanNa get in a fight, and if a guy charges, add me I. Go. Wow, I know I can't defend myself. Because I'm a huge pussy. So I. I I have. I have yeah, I mean I. Have I have a lot of guns in my house? Because I you don't. You have a lot of guns in your house, right? I got guns, but at the same time I mean if somebody's out in front yard that wants to fight I'm not going to bring my gun. You know it's like. You, you match fire with fire, so it's Kinda hard to explain how anyone with a gun can shoot someone. That's unarmed I. don't care. How was cer? Let's talk about your movie which starts shrinking tonight. I believe right. Yet it started last night. It's a movie about these type of topic is called equal standard and it was. Produced and directed well written, and Co directed by a brother named timing Bryant who's a young new writer Outta, Queens New York him. and. It's the phenomenal story that I wanted to get involved with. It's about. People getting shot by police, but it's not one sided. It shows all the different angles like what you were talking about. It shows from the perspective of the shooter. It shows from his perspective of the victim in this show everybody's police. It's a waikato shooting a black. Because he's a he's. He's undercover any any reaches for his gun and shoots him, so it's a very great conversation that goes on in this movie, but something that needs to happen. and. Right now because everybody's quarantined, we couldn't put it in the theaters, so you can now watch it on a stream. It's at equal standard movie dot Com cost nine dollars. People spend on starbucks. You know so. It's something to do while you're watching Do you have any personal experience with this? Throughout, your life obviously haven't been shot by the cops at least that I know of but. Have you ever been. Targeted by the police treated unfairly by the police. I. Confess that Los. Angeles you know so. The cops were out to get. Everyone's every black kid or every kid in the hoods sanger prints or get us on paper in some form or fashion, but LAPD was notorious for being out of pocket. I mean what you guys saw with Rodney King. That was something that we were very familiar with that behavior, and that's why Rodney King got beat down. We waited on justice. People thought the cops were going to be held accountable. But they were found innocent so now everybody's like wait a minute. Break any. They whipped him in the street like a dog and no law was broken, and that's what made people take the streets when when people riot. That's Tantrum. They're just saying. Look how mad we are back. Then people thought it was an isolated situation now with everyone with cell phones and things like that. They see what's going on. It can't be explained the way all these people have been killed by cops, not one conviction. You, know so you got to see how black people feel like y'all. Are there two justice systems? What's going on here? You know so. Thank, no crime has been committed, but there's all these dead kids and no high. I here's what I what I don't disagree with anything that you're saying and my belief, and maybe I have a different view as a white, guy. Is that most of the police are good guys and women. I agree doing the right and. What I find most disturbing F said this numerous times is they know who the bad guys or girls are on the police force? They know the bad apples. And when those bad apples! something. Instead of saying yeah, that guy is a bad guy. That guy made a mistake. He did something he shouldn't have. The the. Are circled. And the police reports are faked. Gun He charged at me. Whatever whatever countless stories we've heard! And it's complete and utter BS and. The thing that's hardest is even let's take away. Some of these shootings were someone is injured or killed. There are countless cases that I've seen where. Are completely fabricated. The video comes out after the fact, and it is a total lie in. Do you know what happens zilch nothing, and so I think the problem starts there and it grows from there. I've been playing a cop on television for twenty years. And there's a thing called. The Blue Wall is the same code that gangsters adhere to which. We're all on the same team. We don't read each other out right So the probably the most hostile styled environment for police officer is that of an honest cop. An honest cop that. Wants to stay on the force, but sees injustice going down, so you gotTA. Send out respect them there, but now they're considered. Whistle blowers. You see what I'm saying so I think cops work under such heavy stress that they feel in order to do right. They can bend the law like they see. The cops do in the movies, but like even playing law and order you'll understand that there's two different routes set of rules that go on like you'll hear us on law and order sake. The upper east side, so tread lightly What are we saying we're saying? They're rich eighties. Things because. That's how it. Would operates. You Know An. Unfortunate end you know it has to be addressed because. The police are supposed to be doing the right thing. Not Not shoot. Need people in artists gun stuff I'm pro gun. Okay? I was in the army. I got guns. But at the same time you know. Some people don't need them. Some people shouldn't have them. Escalates. They going for the gun. They shoot somebody because they got an argument. That's not what they're four. Therefore when you're like endangering the protect your life, and that's not somebody with a fist or bat, or or anything other than another lethal weapon. Tea is on with us. I think another thing with these cops, and maybe I'm just trying to get into their mindset. You know when we were talking about protecting the bad apples. I think oftentimes. If you're a good cop, you, can you put yourself in there? You Go. Wow, I could make a split-second decision. And I could inadvertently make a mistake and shoots an unarmed guy or whatever and. They know that the the danger of that is there and that's why they protect their own, because they say God what if I'm ever in a situation where I didn't purposely shoot a guy, 'cause I'm racist or whatever, but I shoot a black guy. I think he has a gun, but it's a cell phone whatever the case may be, they can put themselves in their shoes and I think that's why they circle the wagons. I I think that that is. That's why you gotTa Watch our movie. Because seen just like that in our movie. With the COPS, the white cops trying to figure it out and trying to make sense of it and you see it from their side. Stand on copy movie. That is obviously racist. His brother hates him. Because his brother Kinda. Like isn't Rockin with, so it's it's. It's those those those things that we tried to reach on his movie. This isn't as simple. Shoot em up movie. This is a movie about the nuances of the problem and I said Tying Bryant road an incredible script. Everybody should watch it and discuss it because you know in a lot of bad situations. Everybody thinks they're right. And having solve a problem when the person on the other side of the province thinks their right to. What about an you say that this movie which is called equal standard, and you can stream it equal standard movie Dot Com. Is that right? Yes sir. Show you say that it explores all sides of the of the issues. If someone were to tell you, is t they look. I am a police officer or I know a police officer and the people. The the kids IN IN SOUTH CENTRAL LA or wherever? Inner City It's it's It's a dangerous place out there. They have no respect for the cops. When the cops have an interaction with them, it's a few. There's a fight there's running. You know like Is there any blame on? On that side in this equation. You know it's one of those things This behavior comes from the way. The cops have treated them. I remember when I was. You know getting chased by the cops because they would. Bail out on us. It was a time where they were taking everybody to the l a coliseum to try to take pictures of this because they said it was four people. We were in a gang warning again, but they were just jacking us so at that point you start worrying about him, you like what are they? GonNa do to me. You gotTA understand it. This guy legally has a gun and this guy probably can't kill you. I was one time with the cops and they busted me my buddy. We were ditching school. We were in the ninth grade, ditching school the cops. Pick this up for truancy. Pulled over to the side of the road like an alley behind a building in wanting us to fight him. G What. Yes said you guys tough guys. It's tough kids. Let's see if you can fight and I knew if I hit that cop or even swung at him. They were GONNA shoot us. I would and I was like nine, nine, nine, nine, nine. Now now any call this little bitches and punks, and then they left us there in the alley, so the cops behaved like that and you see him do it in the movies and it's real. It's real, so you know I don't know man I don't know. Much. Thing is just killing people you know. If you want to jump out, you WANNA. Harass somebody if you WANNA take somebody to jail. That's one thing but pulling out a gun in killing somebody. That can't be just no answer for that. There's no wh-. Out of that, did you in my research I have a whole packet on ice tea here. It says an this. This almost seems to be hard to believe, but it just. This is like from two years ago. I think are a couple of years ago eight claims that you were arrested for not paying a toll on the George Washington Bridge. That's that can't be true. Is True. How do you avenue for? How does that even happened? I had a new car. It was taken from California and California. They don't have the plates on the back. You have a little paper plate that goes in the front window and New York. You have that on the back. I went through the toll. They Jack Ni and they decided to make a scene out of it. You can technically get arrested for going through the toll I didn't have my my my Whatever might Ez pass there? And I made a mistake. I rolled through, but they didn't have to arrest me. It was a a situation. They could wrote me a ticket, but they company. They told the car they made a big thing. And the thing is like I'm on my way to work to play the police chief. Now I would. As a celebrity most the time celebrities get breaks by the police. You know right Mara or no, this is what happens is celebrity with a police? Sometimes you get a pass. Yeah, and other times they'll go out of their way. Improve Your actual. Yeah, it's actually happened to me. I've I was involved in a situation. That was a total BS. With the COPS, but on the flip side I have been I was pulled over. I've been pulled over and the guys like Hey, are you? Guys like all right. Have a nice day, so it you know. We. We to you know I. Mean I think the good cops go out of their way because they know that I speak out again against brutal cops and things of that nature. They go out of their way to show me that. They go out of their way they're like. Is that ain't me? You did what I'm saying, you know. They're gonNA least. Wait for me to break a real law. For a Bus Me for something I was funny, though I got arrested for that, and then I met another sergeant. And he was like Yo. We busted they balls for that they didn't have to do that. You know so even inside the force. They said that was unnecessary. Why did you do that? In a way that made them look bad. You know like. This guy's out here know. Let's wait. And for my past I'm like come on. Give me a traffic ticket and you put me in handcuffs on serious. What are you doing? A Quarantine. Are you just see you there? I don't know if you're at home right now, but so. How have you been dealing with this? Are you just staying in home? Are you having a lot of sex with the wife of would time the agenda for ice tea during quarantine. What sex is unique, expect You know it's been different you know. We should shut down on order. We had four more shows to do when they shut us down. I'm like everybody. Else I'm like this real, but then all of a sudden. My friends started catching it i. have one friend die close friend data. In, my other buddy scarface from a from ghetto boys, he caught it, he he had now on dialysis, adroit his kidney, and then, since then friends of Friends of las about six people to the virus, so I got it firsthand from our friends that had it they said is you do not want to catch it. It'll drag you across the four like a kid. No matter how healthy you are, it will kick your ass. You know and I just don't WanNa, catch it now, people they looking at me all conspiracy. This that I really don't care. What the conspiracy is! The viruses real and you don't want to catch it I. Know that much, and you know I'm military so when someone starts shooting, the first thing you do is take cover. Then you grab who what wine? When we've got plenty of time to figure out where it came from wasn't man made is anyone you know foxy anathema. They got something up with. We'll figure that out later right now. I'm just telling people. Don't catch it if don't play with it like. You know under some people out. There are fake I'm like well. Then go volunteer work at a hospital. Are you surprised the number of people? We even touched upon it earlier today. All these conspiracy theories, and it's not only covid nineteen. These conspiracy theories literally about everything nine eleven, and you name it. It's a conspiracy theory, even the Vegas. Shooting or Sandy Hook elementary school shooting no didn't happen crisis actors Does it surprise you I. Keep saying people are getting dumber and dumber every day in the United States. Is it shock you. I mean. I. Always listen to all the conspiracies because being a musician. I like the. To play out all the scenarios and stuff but. You, know I got to use my common sense at the end to everything you know and I. Got GotTa Look at how it affects me. You know I just did a rap. For Group in London in one of the lyrics I said I really don't care what you believe and you probably won't care until you can't breathe. It's one of those things that a Lotta people. I call it the Jason Scenario like you don't believe Jason can't get you, 'cause. You're not at Crystal Lake. Right so you figure will, Cova can get me because I don't know anybody who was had it, so it must be fake, but then when your mother has it and she's on a respirator. It becomes real. I you know conspiracy. Whatever you know. I'm not a big person into government in all that I saw lies. I think politics is who's the best liar I'm the guy that believes that the left wing and right wing on the same bird so. With all liars. You mentioned doing a bad rap for a group in in England. If I wanted to get iced tea. If I if I have a I have a band or something I go you know what I t to wrap a verse in my Song? What do I have to do? How much what does that cost? And and do you just do it for anyone that pays or do you have to vet that? I'd have to like. Like you like I. If I don't like you, I wouldn't do it. I don't. I don't do it for money because me being on record I'm co-signing you. I'm giving you whatever credibility I've worked. My whole life for I'm handing that over to you just by being on your record, so if I don't like you. I don't really need to do record for the money right now, so I'm like. I would have to do a little background research on UNC. As, hold on a second before I let. Go Hey Charlie yes. One of my first CDs was called a having a tea party. You remember this. Album! I lay. Your mom. Because she thought was about. She let me by because she thought about having a tea party. And, it's the first song. Six in the moment police at my door, fresh adidas squeak across the bathroom floor. What is? The dog, and the WAX and man she. She broke that we might be keeping. Go get a second copy of. Of having a tea party secretly behind her back. Absolutely loved that. Reggie got that CD even was a bootleg. On, but you know what when people bootleg is stuff. It's at the same time. More people become fans, and maybe you would have never became standard. We had to buy it from the record store, so I'll take it. I'm not mad. I before I. let tea go. He may not know this, but he is involved in a bitter feud right now with Chris. Now Not Chris Brown not the Chris. Brown, but a different Chris Brown the leads not rapper, ramp or not. The Chris Brown you've heard of but a different Chris Brown the lead singer of the band trapped. What happens is. What is that beef about what happened? How did this start? Making him famous, do you? This guy. He went. He went Donald Trump magazine. Everyone this lead singer this band I think. Would record. He was talking to one of my partners in a group called power trip. Who Actually did it do? Get A COLLAB- with body count on the new album. The carnivore out we did a song called point the finger, so he was talking to them. This is how it all happened. And? In the midst of one of his rants, he dissed Sumerian record labels roster. He said they're all they all suck. I think he threatened to kill everybody in the midst of that rant. He mentioned bodycount. Now I'm on the sidelines watching this. Go back and forth before we get into, it added. No idea who do was I have never heard who I've never heard. His Song I put that on my daughter's life. I have no idea leave. People are, but they're talking to one of my boys. So when he mentioned my name. It was on twitter in. You know when you say people's names and you ask them it pops up on time line and I just said to him I said. Keep talking. I'll bump into. We're bumping into each other one day. Right now he took that as a threat. I guess when it comes from me as a threat, a really I was saying that you're gonNA. Be On tour. Maybe we'll see each other, and then we'll refresh this conversation and see how you feel like. We have a term in the streets that keep my name APPs mouth like. Why are you got to mention my name? And from that. He went into some crazy stuff in. It ended up that he wondered challenged people to boxing matches for charity. Authorized important for my boy Danny Diablo jumped in he just making himself aim is I think he has a record something that's coming out and I. Decide I just pull back and said this is all stupid and actually I'm getting played because. You just mentioned his name Yes. You're bringing. You are bringing attention to a guy that would normally not get attention, but I will tell you. I wouldn't want to run into ice tea. What are you sixty? Two sixty three now He'd kick my ass. I'm still. I'm still benching to fifty and you know. I'm not doing I'm not doing I'm not going to know Watson, rain which you I'm must see you in the parking lot because. If you got to. Wait a second. Are you guys would settle your beefs? Back in south central and the day. Maybe we could break dance. Nevada is with me. It's like when you talk. Talk at people that have sand I got crew. That aren't the nicest catch. Most of them got social security numbers and I'm the one. That takes care of them. They get more said about. This than I do. Yeah, so you're creating a problem that. Could could happen at any point, but you know this guy's a non factor. You know. You know he'll go where all right this movie that I T. Is In and you. You executive producer US I. Think Right. Yeah Yeah, we'll try and get at me. He wanted my help. I loved his work. And he said is I never asked me for a dime. I this knee jerk connections in plug so by putting me on its executive producer. He was able to get a film crew us able to get people to be involved in it. Then he says is I need you to act in the Movie Act. Oh cake I don't want to be a car so I play a gangster in the movie. And the movie this came out phenomenal, and I'm so behind it because we we mess around Maidan important movie in at this moment it's very time scooby timely. And I just want everybody to see it, and now that it's easy to see you can just go go to the website. Plug it again. Equal Standard Movie Dot Com and watch it and I guarantee you won't be sorry. All you guys should take a minute and check it out I. I will definitely check it out. This topic comes up a lot police shootings. Police versus black men We've sometimes I see stuff and people will complain and I'll go. All the way to second you complain about the cops doing that like there are some real things you should be. You know I every time. A black I get shot by the police. I don't think that it's necessarily police misconduct. Sometimes it is sometimes it isn't. there. Are you know? I think like this. You know, be in front of the hood from ghetto. When the cops run up in a dope house when the cops run up, get busing gangsters. You'll never hear an outcry about that I think this outcry is really about unarmed people getting murder. armed. That's the key word. Did this someone out a gun? And shoot in using deadly force There's a million ways you can take people down. They got tasers. You know they got all kinds of ways. You can handle it other than pulling your firearm and shooting. You know firing a deadly shot. That's what the problem is, and then when it happens. No one goes to jail. And you got to stay in our community is sick and tired of it. Well, check the movie out. Go to equal standard movie dot, com you can stream it there, and if you WANNA jump into ice teas, my man. Guy! IN THE BACKGROUND BACK! There was that a are. Yeah. What is that? They are. Okay I see. We're well armed here on. This show is not as we. Shawntel, he's going to bring like a bazooka or something crazy. He tweeted do. He just got up at his house and he's. He's going into a different room and he's GonNa come back. What do you think he's GonNa come back with like a grenade launcher something or Something! A Gatling gone. This? Blackout? Look at this. Now! Is this what you almost shoot that shot? That Amazon driver with a couple of years ago. Now No, no, no, no, this is! You know just to keep people up by lawn. You know I'm going to start acting like white people. Did you. Did you hear the story about what happened to Eminem an right like some crazy guy broke into eminem's house and Eminem had I mean wrestled with the guy. His security was asleep in the front yard. This guy came in through the back door and eminem actually got into a physical fight. You're prepared. Don't do that at Ice House. You'RE GONNA get. Morocco I'm not going to see nobody I've never had a bodyguard. I'M NOT GONNA. Shoot nobody I might miss a good fight. You know what I'm saying so I'M NOT GONNA shoot nobody. Thank God. I'm just GonNa beat their worry about. or by about earthquakes don't worry about me. I'm all good. I got my ass. Whoop yet. It ain't. It ain't out the pack while. I'm not I'm not going to test on and I'M NOT GONNA I'm not breaking into his house Charlie. What are you pulling out here? What are you showing off Charlie Sword. Home Defense. Here's your slice. Security system is. Looks. Right Moving I. Sort is good, because once we run out of bullets. We gotTA. Throw their sex you, so you know what I'm saying? I learnt that for watching the walking dead bladed instruments are really the best thing for Zombie. Apocalypse listen. We have a full on, but you is all of us here on the screen right now. We got a full on army a posse. Do not mess with us. We'll take you down ice. Good luck with the movie. My man and stay safe while you're staying at home. Thank you for your support. Can I plug it one more time? Yes. Equal. Standard Movie Dot Com hit the button right there. Watch it I. Really appreciate it Wall Quarantine. Everybody stays safe and thanks for the support. Thank you, ice tea, everyone. Thank you so much all right. I have to take a quick break. We will be right back after this. On Rover's morning glory. Hang on. Radio station. Rover's morning. Glory is on your smart device teller to play one hundred seven WM as on iheartradio. Shaggy because the show is expanding to a bunch of new city. The rest of the crew is busy researching the age of consent in those states. Now back to rover's morning glory. I am running way behind. Sorry they're. GonNa go. I don't know what West Palm. Beach West Palm Beach is the one who really freaks out. They'd probably just I think they just dump the show? Skip the last commercial breaker. Whatever I don't know, but yeah. We're running a running way behind. What can I do though? You can't time out great radio. Right I've heard said I heard someone say that once. A very wise man once said that. Lots of people like ice, T's interview. I'm just reading some That was awesome. Some text messages here. I loved it video. Aspect suites so cool the job do. Well. Now he did not have had i. he got a great though. It, okay One guy says that. I, think deed or wanted to have sex with ice tea. He looked so enamored by him. You have to watch interview back again. Theater, close your mouth and stop drooling. Paid me mad props for my gone A. Stroke lead now. I couldn't believe that. Streak what the hell was that gun that he was everyone to hell one big? Jesus, Christ. He's got like A. was that. A drum a clip with one hundred rounds in. The magazine Yeah. It was like an old school machine, gun or something I. Mean it was awesome? Yeah, like a Tommy Gun. It was a high tech new Tommy Garden Awesome. We may have another video interview tomorrow. I think I'm not sure. If they ever. We would be able to do these all the time if they ever replace the board in our studio like they were supposed to. But in our current setup. We were unable to do it. Unfortunately but from home we can somehow manage it. When I Steve said. What you have behind you, what's that big thing behind you? Thought, he'd how come up? My picture and I tried to move out of the way. The. Out this talking about he's talking about. He did not give me props for my. No, no, he just thought. Charlie's the token gay guy on this show. That's what he was thinking in his mind. Okay. Anyhow. Anyone going to watch that movie. Your trailer look. Equal Standard Movie Dot Com. Maybe I'll check that out. Maybe I'll try and do that tonight, should we? Should we watch tonight? and. Discuss it tomorrow. The main seen. In. The trailer looks really intense. The main the real. Crux of the whole movie looks pretty, intense. let me go to. Chris in Allentown Pennsylvania, I believe is still on the line, Good Morning Chris. Good Morning just wanted to ask you a question about that. shooting with the two guys who shot the jogging black man. Does anybody think it's a little suspicious that it was caught on camera like if I'm just coincidentally driving behind somebody and I see two guns and then I see them shoot somebody. Wouldn't you hear that person on the camera? Be Like Oh my God! They just shot somebody but nothing. It was just silent. Like? Maybe they plan to record it maybe if they are racist like. They get on that of stuff and they wanted to record it. Well. Possibly I. Don't know if you were. If. You were premeditating if it were premeditated. The video proof like hey. I'm going to go shoot a Black Guy Charlie. Why don't film it for me? I don't know that would be the mindset now. The Guy did record. Think was another neighbor and I think he kind of knew what was going on. I think they're like. Hey, billy. Bob, we're going to go get this. We're GONNA. Go Catch this guy, this guy. Guy Is been breaking in recent that guy. That guy was on Cuomo the other night, the guy that recorded the video and his his attorney answered every single question for him. He would not answer any single thing at all about why he was with them highly got involved how he knows them nothing. They just wanted to say you. Guys would know about it if it wasn't video. Here's. Why here's why they don't want that brought up? Because what did this guy now? What was said what was the bag in? His lawyer doesn't want any culpability for Guy who who filmed this so? If. Why would you need year attorney speaking for you exactly? Right let's just say on a very out there. Hypothetical situation that these guys happen to be clan members, and they wanted to show this video to their fellow members. You Know I. Mean I know it's a very far fetched theory, but it is also. Possible you know. Well. Just because two white guy shot a black guy I don't think that we jumped to the conclusion that there clan members Anything is possible I suppose. But We'll wait. We'll see what happens Chris. Thank you I appreciate it. We're talking about that. That kid that was shot. A lot of people sent me. This is the kid. Where was this in Georgia I think where it was Brunswick Georgia. Who is going through this home under construction, and then you know they go? Jogging anyway shot. A lot of people have brought up. Messages that they sent me that his attire didn't appear to be jogging tiger now I don't know I can't make it out on the video. are say stuff like this. None of this does means you deserve to die? I don't understand. People are twisted them, so love explain I'm not saying you over update. Other people are like well. He's wearing khaki shorts. Okay, that means you get to shoot them, but no, no, no one's saying that I think what the point that they're making is. If the Narrative is Oh, guy was out for a jog and he was shot and killed. That's the narrative, but that may not be accurate and that's not accurate. What else? May Be inaccurate what else needs to be uncovered. Do you have the video of him walking through the home that's under construction Charlie find that. Let me take a break if you're listening. If he was on a station that only carries the show until ten am. Eastern time you can continue to listen or watch live for free at rover radio DOT COM or with the rover radio APP on your phones or TV's of I. Apologize To our stations that only carry the show until ten that we ran late. But for everyone else, we will be right back after this. Hang on row I heart radio station. You can ask your smart device to play Rover's morning glory on iheartradio. This is a mess. Your Life doesn't get better by chance. Your life had a face I would conscious gets better by choice. Choose Rover's morning glory and Improve Your Life kind of? Oh. WHAT'S THE JOSE? What is that? Prices. Advertisement? A whole lot. How hell do I get this thing? I have no idea what the hell's going. Crazy. Oh my God waters go. Ahead. What's matter? It's a matter of you know. What the Hell's going. My whole system is like. I actually can't control anything now. Tastes son of a bitch. Start Yelling. Levels. I have no idea how I can stop. This is and if I closed down my system that just turn. That drops everyone off, so you're getting no audio anywhere. I could just talk to. Talk to dumb while I rebooted this or something i. have no idea what the hell's going on here. Take play commercials rest of the show. Well as Or we can just talk like run the radio. We to that interviewed. Interview man, how do you go back? I wanted to see this video. Charlie probably got it right. They the guy walking I keep saying he's a seventeen year old. I guess he's a twenty five year old five. Yeah, almost. Yeah the video I have the news. It's a news story from a couple of days ago and it just it's only like a three second clip of him walking into Donna. Hi have. I couldn't find me. Extended one from across the street. The minute. Charlie I haven't watched this, but now that the video is in here. And I don't know anything about across the street. This was just A. This was inside that home. That's under construction. We're talking about the guy that was shot. What's that? Yeah, yeah, I mean mailing it to. All Right, here's what I'm going to do. How can I kiss this thing to stop son of badge? I have no idea what's going on here. All Right? Here's what I'm GONNA do dumb. On you me and flat attuned to carry the show here for the next few minutes I'll some I'm going to try to. A reef. Play this this is. I don't have a subscription to web site. The Washington well neither do I. Try Opening. It up and incognito mode yeah. or clear clear cookies, man reached your limit come on amateur hour. Really Jeez Charlotte seriously really begging for money. This ever read the news though they're. Well they're all. Bays and you know he's a little short up cash, right? Okay here's what I'm going to try I'm going to try closed down. My video thing will continue audio. Only your RMC TV's crap out here momentarily, but that's all right and Give it about two two minutes or so guys, and then you guys can. can dial back in right. Right! Let's see if that. Looks like it's, it's hanging up a little bit on my end froze. You there. Okay. We lost. You is making sure no, no just audio. Only an audio only linked to you guys, and that's how we're getting all of the audio from these guys in our video back to you. So I'm I'm just. Linked up to the two of you now all right so the reason I bring up that video from across the street of the guy who got shot on their Georgia is because it shows him go in then come out a different door than the one he went in and then Kinda like runs around the house like almost like he runs out of, and it's hard to say house, because it's not a completed house, so it's like he runs out of one unfinished into another unfinished area, and it just seems weird. Why is he running around in the house? That he realized he was, and it's like the second. He walks out. 'cause there's also if you look in in this video across the street. There's another person who walks. Up to kind of point like you can see a person across the street, and it's almost like the Guy Ahmad or is as a mater, walks out of his house or walks out of construction site sees the person across the street bolts. And takes off running so it just to me is an again. None of that has gives anybody any reason to shoot the guy, but to to say that he isn't putting himself potentially in a in a situation where somebody might want to defend their land or their home, or whatever if you know, you're kind of not setting yourself up for it by any means, but you're putting yourself in a much more precarious situation. Sure even if he was Mosey around that abandoned house, you're the one that's not built yet. What could he really steal out of there? There's nobody there working all those contractors or whatever they. They, would all take tools today well. I thought when I when when I before I knew there was more than one time that he had visited the construction site I thought to Middle Day mid was just looking for a job. Because when you work in a landscaping site or construction, site or something like that people just kind of wander up and ask for job all the time so I was assuming. Maybe that's what he was doing. You know. Why else would you just randomly unless he wants to get into construction? Just as a hobby likes woodwork I mean that that is you know that's a real thing? Just one check stuff out. I was GonNa say that are he noticed they'd been building the house for a while, and he just wanted to see the progress they had made. You know that's not that uncommon when you see these in common your uncommon. Especially if he jogs there regularly right watching bill. Here's now I. Don't know if this is true or not. A one guy said that he was twelve miles from where he lived. I find that a little bit strange I. Don't I don't especially if he lives in a bad neighborhood. If you live in the ghetto, you don't WanNa. Go jogging. You could potentially get shot just jogging down the street and that means he's on a twenty five mile run. If he's twelve miles from his house, he still has to run back there. No drawl drove to the Nicer neighborhood, and then did some some jogging there. That's my assumption. I hold on. To. Charlie I gotta get your audio on yours. You're there. We go When, I was running for a little while drive to the park. I wouldn't run outside my house. My House is nice. It's got something, but you went to a park. You didn't just drive to someone else's neighborhood. which is what I find a little bit. Straight Park is a nice path. If there's not a park close by I can see me to a nicer neighborhood easily. It looks like a kind of an empty kindness area in along a river is a river on the other side of that house. That's being built. I think it was described as a riverfront area. real quick. Nobody jobs in cargo shorts just to go back to that point. Is that what meaning shorts? Yeah with pockets. It will give you that shaping you know on your crouch. One Guy said. I have two conflicting reports here. One Guy says that he was twelve miles from his home, wearing timberland boots, but another guy says the autopsy said that he had gray athletic shoes. I'm not boots, so I like tennis shoes I'm slogan still still picture your Robert cargo shorts. White Gray tennis shoes, not high tops, but low tops in a wild t shirt K.. My question is why does this matter? To. Get into whatever. EARNING RIGHT Uniform you must be wearing well if okay if I if if I'm. You can't hold on if I'm supposedly jogging and I'm wearing. Jeans and a Parka. We wasn't. Wouldn't people go well? That's a little bit suspicious. Shorts and a t-shirt goes jogging wearing long jeans now I know that this guy wasn't wearing long jeans, but you say what difference does it make what he's wearing? What kind of shoes he has on or what? It does make a difference. He's wearing shorts and a t-shirt. Okay sounds a car dog arts. Cargo shorts nets. You don't. Don't mock what he's got. Can I'm trying to understand that we're talking about the cargo shorts or not jeans cargo shorts. What does that matter to the overall story? It'd probably you probably won't be jogging and cargo shorts, and and the narrative is that he was just out jogging, minding his own business, but. Most people wouldn't wear cargo shorts which are heavy to jog. So if he's wearing cargo shorts them what that means, he would end then the narrative that we have that. He's just out for a jog and was gunned down. That narrative breaks down. What was he doing? Why was he there? What was it a initially where he was casing the joint, or or had he been there before and stolen stuff in the past? So that's that's the point of why you say when you say doesn't matter well, I think it does. Okay, I was just trying to understand. I don't understand still I don't really get your point of why it matters if he was wearing a full hazmat suit. That doesn't matter. He's allowed to walk down the street running. Difference say you're building a house. Charlie and keeps breaking in stealing stuff from your house. You'd be upset. Right and if you see a guy that keeps doing it. Would you not be suspicious and BE UPSET WHY? I don't care if he's White Black Asian? Whatever are you upset that he's in your house. You're not going to be pumped it. Sonny's looking around my house for sure. Stuff gets stolen, so this guy's like. They wanted to question him. I don't believe the jogging either people keep going back to the same spot. People keep saying though that even the police department has come out and said that there was no reported break ins in that area prior to six months the only thing that is even. That's not true six weeks six weeks. Okay, but I mean that's still a long time. You think the guys waiting once every month and a half to go break house. Well, hold on, no, not necessarily because. Just because there are no police. Reports of a theft doesn't mean that the theft didn't take place for instance. If you have home under construction and there, there's a tool that stolen. That's worth three hundred dollars. Most people probably aren't going to call the police over that and make a police report, so there was something stolen out of the boat that is at that guy's house. The Construction House, but that guy owns the house and owns. The boat did not file a police report because he wasn't sure if what was stolen from the boat was stolen, while it was at his old house or the House that's under construction. Okay, there was. Someone that had called and I don't know if there's any truth to this. They said that the guy that shot the jogger had a gun stolen from his car. He added in the glovebox on. New Year's Day so. Whatever that means to you, they had something stolen from their car in February I. Believe the Shears I think again. I haven't been following the story. Real Closely Charlie what do you have for me video? Wise the video of him walking into the construction site here. You won't be able to hear anything but I don't think there's much here so okay here. We got late. I gotta I'm not doing it right. Hold on. Oh hold on here. We go and we got it right right see! Just looking around. That's the only that's the only video I've seen. You said it was one of him. Walking got to the House one across walking down the street. He's not jogging it all. He's walking and then he stops. This is goes in February. Oh, this is from February. This is previous video. Okay Silje did not have timbale boots on that first video here. I don't know if you guys could sit i. let me I don't know yet. What definitely did not have boots. He had gray, runny choose. To go back a little bit. All. Let's see what. So we're watching this new security video from inside of this home. That's under construction. Guy Walking around in there appears to be the same Guy I. Don't find this I. Don't know if you guys were talking about this I. Don't find this weird at all I've I've done this hundreds of times you see something you're on a walk or something and see House being built. Oh, that's interesting. Go Walk there. Check it out, so you say that that's two different times. Is that two different times? Charlie because. You said that's back in February, but this didn't happen recently. This is months ago that this guy shot. Oh. I just said February that popped up. It said February and that video. Tell you. When was he shot? What's the day that he was show? Air I don't know. Let's see twenty-third Rover. Was February twenty third. Third, okay so February twenty third is that first video February? Eleventh is the video before he was in there. About two weeks apart in that vacant. Are In that home that's under construction again. You know I don't necessarily necessarily find that too suspicious. These guys that shot him now. I'm looking at this. These guys do look like. Looks like a mouth breather. Doesn't the guy on the right? The younger Guy they just don't look like. Well, they wanted dumb. They wanted to make sure when. He was on Cuomo defending the guy or speaking for the guy who shot the video. They made sure to go out of the way to point out how small and Very small in stature and very uneducated, a not a very smart man. For the person who shot the video that. Attorney really wanted to drive that home. Very uneducated man, and he's very small in stature. The and your lawyer. They're also everybody how stupid. Guys. Stupid similar with his bowl cut. You know half cross. I really didn't help this case either. Marvin you're on rover's. Morning Marvin. Rover, Hey! Crew, I wanted to say with the video. The guy a my, he was confronted about going today, development before and by by those two guys, and on the incident on the day that it happened, you got the video of him, standing in front of the House and he was looking like you know checking it out. And then he went into the house. Somebody across the street came outside, yelled at him, and that's when he took off now under Georgia law. You are allowed to carry a gun and you are allowed to transfer. In your car legally, so that's that would probably be the excuse that they have of having the gun now. Another law under Georgia you know under Georgia law if you have first hand knowledge to a felony, being committed or witnessed to you are allowed to conduct a citizens arrest. Now that's what those two guys were doing, but apparently they were to to wait strong Armley, so they had a gun, so they weren't justify. What would felony were they privy to? They were pre. My now we all know that you know we go. You see a development like that. You say you checked out a house before now he you got the video him walking in the house. He's they have. They had a string of break-ins in that neighborhood, and that was not the first time that that might was confronted about going into those houses. If you if you're jogging, which there's no viable evidence that he was jogging. Jogging the only person that said he was dogging was his mom. Unfortunately, he can't say hisself, so it looks to everyone with common sense, and we all know you're big on that rover. It looks like he was just going in the house casing the joint, so if you were just going into the how just looking around when on that video, Charlie, you could probably check out world. Start you download today. There's Mussa. Yeah. World is a video on their. ex-cop talking about all of this, he's breaking it down and telling us all of this and The guys might go free. Because honestly they were just they were. They were conducted under Georgia law. It may not be you know right or common sense, but you know they. They didn't really do the only thing. They all with us. Excessive force other than that it was. It's pretty much up and down. You know the guy well. Still I don't even know of going into a house in less when you say they were privy to a felony. I think just going into the house under construction would be a felony you have to. Know Firsthand now. Let's not a felony. You have to to know what is is. Is You know have firsthand knowledge of this felony? That's taking place. So what am I watching here? Charlie He goes into the house. This is from across the street surveillance video back real quick. Sent you actually. It's better. It's got the whole video and you don't have to worry about I. Just think another one. That doesn't have all the news. Cut In shot. Then he walked into the home. What would help his case if he was dragging down the road and then just stopped and and. Nv Line into the House I would get that. He just walking up the street that doesn't help. And he and he wanted. To Be Line. There YOU GO V la. Rover v I was thinking V. Line could work. A V. V Line exactly well. You going straight and then you V. That line. Use that one shot it. So. What do you make of that video? Charlie, the video from across the street where? You're under us, so we can actually hear what they're saying about. It I think I know what's going on, but I don't WanNa. I don't want to speculate. I'll give me second. Thirty seconds while I do that. Let me take a break. We'll be right back on rover's morning glory. When we come back, we'll play that then we'll wrap everything up. We'll tell you what's coming up on the aftermath on orangey plus right after this. Hang on. Radio station. dumbed down your smart device with Rover's morning glory to play one hundred point seven Wm as on iheartradio. Growing it's expanding. It's coming to a city near you. Dirt. You guys talking about he's Rover's morning glory. Get your mind out of the gutter. Man Come on! Everything up and a little wild. Tell you what's coming up on the aftermath and our G, plus you don't subscribe to our plus sign up right now at rover Radio Dot com, so you can watch or listen live. As they continue. Either they're on the website. You can watch your listen or on the rover radio. APP download that to your phone or on your apple, TV or Android TV, or your Roku Rachel on Rover's Morning Glory Good Morning Rachel. I Rover Guy. I just wanted to say you. Guys are watching that video. This jogger and you're looking at close, but we'll be. He doesn't even have stock side. I don't even think he's learning to shoot the right way. He wasn't jogging. The video I. It's hard to really hard to tell. What is shoes are like an iffy s socks on I? Mean I have those little like baby shocks. You know the that are the notion. SNIGGER. He's not wearing socks at all you. He wasn't jogging. You've definitely case in the place I'd like to see one person in his Bam report warned picture of him jogging ever. If he's got so much. L. I I don't know. Maybe he was maybe wasn't I- data. You brought up the point that he was wearing cargo shorts. You don't believe he was jogging because of that. Is that right data? Over run every day I mean for years and years and years playing sports I never once put on cargo shorts. Because it will, it will leave you a rash between your legs and two rover I never once in my entire life ever stopped. I'm not maybe people are different I never once stopped to walk into a House the whole point of jogging. It's to build up your stamina. You don't stop until you're back at at your house or back at the par that's. Not Lying Jeans and. Your jeans and boots to work out and sometimes. Usually no. Well you were. I've I wear boots for the ankle. Support by can't run and boots. I know that for a fact. It's. To work out. Maybe if I'm like at work and I'm like well. We have an hour to kill where shooting something I'll go on the gym and work out and some jeans, but usually get some loose short gym shorts. That's what you run, cargo shorts or too tight Josh. Allentown, Pennsylvania you're on rover's morning glory good morning, Josh. Hey rubber. What's up? I have a question for Peter. About he's questioning the cargo shorts, and it's very strange Blah Blah Blah this is coming from the guy who works out with a to television hanging from his neck. Explain that what? Your point! Thank you Josh. John Allentown Pennsylvania. You're on Rovers Glory Morning John. Yo over. How's it going? Hey I, just wanted to share real quick guys talking about the shooting all morning long I posted on my facebook page the video and I said you know. Why would anybody run at somebody? That has a gun like that like you know I'm from the country. And if you're you know going along and someone just comes out of nowhere and to. Trucking Park and they got a gun. You're knocking logically. Keep walking out them. And my friend responded that. I'm thinking old school in that. You need to think modern and She's actually from the ghetto, so I'm sure. Brent across the situation a lot more than I have. And she said that I'm thinking old school and that. Why should society fear a a gun like that? Because of what you've heard and stuff and she's like a just because someone has a weapon. You shouldn't have any fear of them and I'm like. Please give me a break. Yeah, right I mean. That's literally like how these people think about it, I'm like you gotta be kidding me like. You know but. happening. To random guys pull up on my street and I happened to be outside and they have guns. Again a little bit of fear. My brain. You know we've exactly my point. Yeah, either. The old way somebody put a gun in my throat one time and I pushed into it. I pushed into it and challenge then to shoot me. Bad Ass. No I'm not saying that like a bad s I'm just saying you don't know how you're gonNA react until it's in your face. Humble Brag, it's it's a reality of. Okay I'll stop talking. Yeah, I mean. Some guy pulled a gun on me. I said go ahead. Make my day, you know. Honk. You got to see what he gets angry he. He. He likes Ben. I don't. I didn't. And then he grabs is. Like, he's like he's ready to go like he wants to walk out the door he's he's just he's done. He's done contributing. Wrap it up over. Said Humble Brag. The bad was the one. Charlie cool. Brag Yeah Mr Cool. You trying to have a conversation going? Pull a gun on you don. KNAPP. The aftermath. Charlie, what do you have? What video where'd you go to show something with the audience? Just running video is the running video again. We could play it here. Urge Attorney General Chris. Carr announced on Tuesday that he had asked the Georgia Bureau of Investigation to examine how local prosecutors handled the case at the outset. jour-jour does not have a state, hate, crimes, law, and so the. US. Justice has said that it is looking into the case to see if. There is just forget to bring federal. I don't WanNa. Hear this lady. First of all I think that that is ludicrous. You're talking about hate crime. At this point, there's gotta be just because the white guy shoots. A black guy doesn't mean it's a hate crime. Yeah, for White Lady was jogging would've. They would've acted the same way. I don't know maybe who knows but so anytime. A black guy shot by a white guy. That's a hate crime charlie. No. So. What makes this a hate crime? Let's just say these guys are guilty. Chase down a black guy because he was running in her, all white neighborhood could that not have happened if it was a white guy that they didn't know that they suspected of breaking into that home. You'd think that they would not treat. If A. Camera! Breaking in and then you see him running away some math head, of course, they were shot him I. Don't think you could say. This is a hate crime now. Maybe it is. Maybe you'll show some sort of evidence. Of that, but at this point. I don't see any evidence of that whatsoever. And and how do you explain forget what that lady was talking about? How do you explain what's what's going on in the video there that you're looking at Charlie? Where the guy goes into the house. He's confronted by neighbor, and then he just takes off running. Was it? Yeah, that's the video right now. So what's Oh? You want it, I. You just want to see the video short, too. So what's happening is that. that. Suspicious to you at all. I don't know. Don't know just playing the especially. If you've been in that same home and you've been confronted about it before. If if you went in? Let's say that there's a home near me. That's under construction I. Went in there and I'm walking around at a guy comes in there and he's yelling at me. Don't ever come in this home again as my home. Are You doing whatever? Do you think Eddie Week or two later. I'm going to go back in there after I've been confronted. Would you probably wouldn't neither would i. So okay, if that happened to this guy and according to what we've read, the there was a, he was confronted about this a couple of weeks ago by these guys. then. He's backing that. Same House. A week or two later. Another neighbor comes out, says hey, what are you doing and he takes off running full speed. Still doesn't know no red flags raised. Five you. GotTa if I if that happened if you're asking me. Like no, I wouldn't go back in that house. I definitely wouldn't do that. I also would never get into my mind. I should get in the back of my truck with my. DUMB ASS son, third driving and chasing the guy down with shotguns that would never that part would never play a part in my brain, so right would never in my life do that. I would be like okay guy keeps coming around. I would call the police perhaps for camera footage. Call the cops never. Would I think I'm going to get not his own property. Somebody else's property. If I saw my neighbor's house getting broken into, I would call the police go. Oh, my God house broke into. I would never think. I should go confronted sky in my own, and then when he runs away. I would never think I should. I should get my car with my neighbors, and we should all chase this guy down with guns that part. Doesn't make sense. Geography is one of the guys I would. The jogger come. Recap dawn eater. Was One of the guys to wake. Guys was one of the cop former, secure or something. Skaters Office, I think he was a former detective and then a former police well. He was a former detective I. Am Not entirely positive whether they worked on the police force for the prosecutor's office or whatever, but he he was a detective former, and you could be that even if you're not on the police force, he can still have this law enforcement certification. He lost his certification and twenty nineteen because he failed to re. Do whatever. Training was required I. Read an article about that today, but. You know who knows what the story is with that? Maybe the guy goes. I'm gonNA retire what I need to get my certification for. I. Don't know I don't know what the story is with that. Dray, you're on rover's Morning Glory Good Morning Greg. Order Rover Your Because I'm on the road. Head. All right. I just wanted to point of view a black Nasr point of view of the situation. And I'm being real man. Honestly, it looked very suspicious. Of what he was doing, you know what I'm saying. Did he come out with anything? No. But as a as a black community, we're tired of seeing. These, what could be innocent platoon, not probably a misdemeanor at at the most. A person. Of Color it dead. y'All the well. White people have the biggest gang on their side. The poll leaks. Why not just call the police and let them handle it? I know he's in a white vapor. He's the only black guy. He's not going to be art fine. Why not let let them have? That's pop point of the. Have you ever had your home or your car broken into? Of course. And if you saw a week later, the guy that you suspected did that. Would you confront the person? Would you say hey, style would you wouldn't do anything? There's no circumstances. Would you confront the person? Now where? I'm I'm explaining to you. Can! As, a black man in the Black Community Yeah Yeah. 'cause we can't call the police and they will be there within two minutes and say oh. We can catch the guy 'cause he's a black guy. In our ability, you got thousand failure. Black guys that are could feel like we all look the same so. We're not gonNA. Call would your community? He's the only probably only black I. Look like that of course called the police. We don't know how fast the police get there. I don't know how far away they are. How rural this community is I. Really don't know anything about it, but. Let's just take everything you say at face value. But let's say that these guys did say. Let's say that these guys said Hey. We're tired of. Being broken into, and then we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA. Hold this guy until cops get there. And let's just say for the sake of argument that the guy does indeed charge the one guy who's holding a gun. It? Still you can shoot the guy. Is that right? I didn't say that that that point. Yeah, he's charged. So, he could took the gun away. But why now? Why do you oppose a very big threat like why even out there with guns? You know what I'm saying. Who? He that was his only way out if he run away for sure, but the kids shot. That was his only way out. was more towards him and trying to hit the good. That was the only way. Got Got a rifle and have some fun with him. Plus the father with that was his only seen Lisa again. In the mindset of the Guy Holding the gun and you have a guy. Come at you, charge it, you go. Man I'm holding a gun in this guy crazy enough to charge me. What is he capable of doing? This guy might kill me. and. Why, why are you? Why is that ridiculous? Is Holding a gun, right and if? You're holding a gun and guy. Your heart is running at you and a guy charges. You and you're holding the gun. Okay, so common sense of if I'm holding a gun at each snits. You're GONNA charge me. You're scared of me. Then that's that's you're asking if I if I'm. Net. Running at you. You got the gun in your hand. Sure because I go. This guy's crazy. He's GonNa. Try to fight me and take my gun away. You have gotten out here. That if I'm holding a gun at you, you would charge. Someone's holding a gun at no, you try not okay. Okay exactly because. Rides away. Normal person not going to charge someone holding a gun excuse choices. Try to try to defend himself. You're dead choices. Yeah, well. It's always gotten no, not necessarily. Like, what's he's the guy that charged him is crazy and not the guy hunting him down like he's an animal. Dorm all my head. That's too far. East not hunting down like an animal. Around over on. Hold over there like hey stop. WHY DO I. Not. Not a police officer Ross so. Guy With a gun. You think it's totally normal agai. Two guys with guns can say I want to ask you questions and we should know should. Start backing away and then and then I tried to. Myself from the situation I, don't charge the guy with the gun. And Start, Punching Start Party got situation. I if I'm holding someone at gunpoint and they charge me. That's why I shoot the person I go man disguise nine. He's charging the. I have a gun and he's charging me all right. Okay two point got somebody. If. In Your House. Your. How how? How she was in her house. Not. Worth One yes, far, friend! Pat Now, yes, he was the guy. The acids Brenda Watch the house. The friend of a friend you said that he said he texted a different, Guy Rover he did text different guy who then went out and said Hey, what are you doing? Stop and that's when the other next door neighbors. They hear the commotion and Yes, it's all they're all part of the same neighborhood they're. It's all part of the same group wasn't actually watching the house. It's a different guy watching the house, but okay well, I. Don't know what difference that makes necessarily. The same different cargo shorts make it's stupid. What are you arguing about? The fact that you don't see that? It's crazy to point a gun at somebody and then question if the other guys crazy well. We'd have to go frame by frame of that video did even pocket gun? Did he point that gun at him or was? He charged I I. Don't know we we'd have to go frame by frame and watch. So if he doesn't point the gun at the guy and the guy charges them then does that change your opinion at all? No I'm driving around with guns so you. Gun and someone holding it down pointed at the ground and a guy charges at you. And you hillbillies. Talking. You have two choices I could run and get shot. What I'm doing is I'm not just going to start. Find it usual that if someone believes there is a guy who's been committing break ins in the neighborhood. I don't find it the least bit unusual that someone in the neighborhood confronts the Guy Goes Pay Stop. I gotTA. Talk to you I. Don't find that unusual at all. I'm fact I find that? The opposite of unusual I find that be. Likely outcome. Holding a shotgun. Sure Holding something to defend yourself because you don't know if that guy. From someone who's committing a crime, a burglar. You? Don't know if that guys armed. You does anyone I'm the only person that so charlie instead spine that crazy or do you find it crazy that someone may confront a suspected burglar in their neighborhood. And while you're doing your daughter not confronted. It's not it's not me. Come Down with different. Running Donnelly right. Go seeking to get. Trespassed into the house, he ran towards them but okay. Go ahead. Last one last point last point trespassing in a house, and then I left, and then some neighbors chased me now with guns. I would stop because I. Know I was in the wrong and be like what or a runaway I wouldn't actually go. Sir, attack I know. It was in the wrong. I was trespassing. You. Guys agree with that and you've already been confronted for trespassing at that same place right, and then I came back and I see neighbors commitment with guns. I'd be like I normally the wrong. I Stop Okay yes, you got me. I was I was breaking again. What do you won't do it again? let me go to. Iran. Rovers Gloria then I my I didn't realize how late we are. Sorry! Zach I nominate a lot of trouble. Go Ahead Zach. y'All rollover Yoda. They, same from my point of view and my. If I'm confronted with a you know this got DC. Kinda some back chill. Billy got They put a shotgun or any kind of gun and I'd say. I'm probably going to fight for my life regardless of the situation whether I'm in the right there in the right light, wrong or indifferent actually. Just last week. Got Full of gun out pointed it might say since. Head and fighter planes thinking I got the site guy and wins. You know what he tried everything because you get away and you know tough guy. Man. I ended up getting Johnson you know there was a bad situation, but I think when somebody. Deal what what kind of scenario you putting yourself in where a guy pulls a gun? He says I gotTa Blow Your head off. And then you attack the guy. I'm just curious. What's going on just prior to that? Well, my brother had called me. He's got a these issues with drugs and he got. Sticky situation you know, of course you call big brother for health so I. Come and. The guys coming back they left. They came back and I. It was just the One guy not really laws. So I challenged you. Guys do a fight myself you know. Not Everybody's like strother. The main issue was. He he he kicked my brother out. No doubt but. You know now earn right, so they got scared and mind you were were just got done beating up your brother. He's wind and now he's got to take you on tail. Yep. That's right. I mean. Don't get me wrong. He could've taken as much time as they wanted to, but you know. He got scared out of his mind. I guess inside the. Face So. We ended up getting. Is that for? This hour him. Right exactly at that point, I'm feeling as though if I am, but the a shot or lose my life, or whatever the case may be I'm definitely GonNa do everything I can, and I thought. That if he pulled the gun on you and you, you put your arms all right man and you start backing away from the situation. And then you run away, you're you're still, GONNA end up dead? He could fair radically she you in the back, but I find that to be an unlikely scenario, but it's possible. which do you think you have a higher probability of being killed? A guy pulls a gun on you and you decide. I'M GONNA charge towards that guy, or I'm going to back out of the situation in and get Outta here. which do you think? You're more likely to end up armed him. Well I think nowadays you know the just give the state of the nation as it is I, mean police shootings shooting all the time everywhere, even if I would've turned and ran away. The Guy Filter shopping told the cops that you know something also. If you're shot in the back. The COPS, generally they're gonNA know that you were shot in the back, but if you were a betting man, and there were a hundred scenarios, and you have two choices in those hundred different times run through this scenario, you can either attack the person who's holding you a gun point, or you can run away. which do you think would be more likely that bodily harm comes to yourself? Well I key factor is distance not most of the time. If you're on, you're probably live. You probably won't do anything, but if you're within the distance that gets hands on him and be able to engage in. This arm! Me personally that's on the for. I'd much rather not leave the state of my life. The somebody else's fans especially I've rb shown that. They're probably not in the right frame of mind well. You come around that track. I don't know it's not like you're boxed-in. I look I. Just think that. Again I. Don't know I haven't gone frame by frame with this, but. I don't think we're getting an accurate narrative just out for a Jog And of discussion. All Right Charlie. What do you have coming up on the aftermath? We're GONNA talk about the great interview with Ice Tea. Was it the best interview the shows ever had or QUARTER MINUTES SO AWESOME? We'll talk about. What rover needs to do to become the worst person in Ohio. Where give you some tips over judging. SNITS. I already am on my opinion on this case. You're definitely made it in the final four today and we're GONNA. Try to push the edged. These terribles you possibly can. And we'll talk about how I can get rid of the branches over my new fire. Fire Shy, chainsaw don all that more coming up on the aftermath by the way Charlie Someone sent me a text message said that The what we were looking up was Lakewood, but they said Charlie doesn't live in Lakewood anymore. You live in the city of Cleveland. And Fire pitch illegal and they gave they gave me the code. I. Don't have that. I think. People that. Well here. You just argued for the past hour that you gotTa. You know. Hey, you can't hold someone at gunpoint point. You GotTa Letter of the law. There's that whatever. But then when it applies to Charlie he doesn't like. Any more doesn't like it never the police. You seem fun and cool and Um what? Are you all right in. His arms crossed there. Yeah, right? What's what's going on? Dumb all good man? He seemed like seemed like you were upset. Because Charlie said. What did you call to Rack Humble Humble Brag? A joke WHO's a choke? Fine. All right well tune into the aftermath, so you can critique dumbs. Mood today on no just willy being a good line we'll, we'll be in a bad mood. Find out as they continue on the aftermath in just a few minutes on our MG plus sign up at rover radio DOT COM or with the rover radio APP. REALLY SIGN UP AT ROVER RADIO DOT COM. Please do that and then you can watch or listen live there on the website or what the rover radio APP or on your TV APP but the. Best way in the way we prefer. Is for you to sign up for 'EM G plus there on the website at rover. Radio DOT COM then use that log in. On Your APPS. That's the best way to do it all right. We'll be back live tomorrow morning. Have a great day. It's Rover's morning glory by. Morning.