20 Episode results for "Charlie Hedges"

#193 Jeff Carreira: The Ordinariness of the Spiritual Life

OC Talk Radio

50:27 min | 4 months ago

#193 Jeff Carreira: The Ordinariness of the Spiritual Life

"Welcome everybody's time once again for the next chapter with charlie hedges as he explores turning the page on his life and you're my guest jeff career and ice speak the same language i call it the language of the soul in everyday vocabulary. We talk about how the frustrations we face an ordinary. Life are also spiritual frustrations with spiritual solutions. If you've ever longed for deeper life than jeff. Carreira is tender and insightful. Guide to help you find your way. I hope you enjoy this show with author teacher. Jeff carrera as enlightening as i did enjoy Jeff carreira welcome to the next chapter with charlie. Hey charlie thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here with you. I gotta tell you. I'm so excited about our conversation today. Because you know as i've thought about it and and you know we chatted earlier this week. It seems to me we wonder about in the same play ground and and i'm calling the the integration of ordinary life and the spiritual implications as well as the driving forces of such a playground so so shelby a fun playground of ordinary life and spiritual implications. Does that sort of sound like our playground. Tell you it's it's certainly rings true from our earlier conversation. And it's definitely. I've been most interested in the creative and in kearney potentials of spirituality so in life. So i think in that sense you and i are in the same part. That's great well. We'll we'll we'll see as we go on now now. I did my research and you know it appears to me that you have written more than twenty books is that right that is correct yes. Holy cow That is that's a. That's a lot of writing my friend. Yes i'm i'm jerry inspired to write. I've written a lot even recently. And i have a very healthy production schedule book writing schedule for the next few years. Because i have a lot of things. I want to say so. I have a lot of books when i wanna right. That's funny after. I wrote my first book. I said it would be my last book. Because i said everything i know. I don't know what else to say. And and they were then of course. Mortar follow but but that was. I felt like after my first book. I'm done you know there's there's nothing left. Nothing left in there to say to anybody and it was funny was a. It was a whole different kind of book and i also noticed. Not only do you have twenty bucks you have you have an additional twenty online courses To help people find peace with who they are in the world. Both both earthly and spiritual peace you. You certainly are prolific artist I can't wait for our chat. Yeah thank you very much. I think that's very true. And and it's something always come very natural to me but people often comment on the sheer volume of creative output. That i tend to unleash on the world so it's sort of a god given energy or something but i'm not slowing down yet. That's good and you know and you know what's interesting is that there's a lot of you read through all the titles of your book and of your books and your courses although they are in the same sort of genre. There's a lot of diversity. It's not insane saying it doesn't appear that you're saying the same thing over and over again that there's a lot of creativity taking place in what you're doing with your your direction. I'm i'm interested in a lot of things And i've recently started writing fiction as well and i've just been very soul of enthusiasm In in many different directions. And i've done lots of different things and so I found a good medium to express at all. Well you know they. You said you found different things. You've really kinda lettuce into the next place. I wanna go is Now As i understand if i understand this correctly you came to a lot of your your observations after more than twenty years of deep involvement in spiritual communities and spiritual reflection and meditation and contemplation. I love for you to give us an overview sort of how you got to where you are today now. I know this could be the entire show but feel free to feel free to to give us an overview of that sure. My path was an interesting one And i would say that. I started out studying. Physics and Became engineer. I did that for a number of years. And at some point we started to do a lot of military contracts and i really lost interest in the work And i went back to school. And i studied Special education and i became a special needs teacher. And i did that for a while and somewhere along. The path I i found meditation. And i started doing buddhist meditation practice I also spent a lot of time at a french. Asking christian monastery Studying the mystics. And studying thomas merton so i always had a a very rich spiritual life in various directions and then at some point i met A spiritual teacher and a spiritual community that Just radically changed my understanding about what life could be about which essentially meant. I realized that i could devote my life to my spiritual pursuits that they didn't have to be what i did on the side. They could be the center of my life And so i. I became part of this community. We did. Enormous amounts of practice Meditation philosophy we were following was firmly rooted in hindu for Called advice of atlanta. But we were exploring all kinds of additional practice. No additional eastern practices buddhist and western practices And also just spiritual western thought and human potential movement. But so i was basically busy with that for twenty years Doing many hours of practice and study and contemplation and discussion with peers. And about halfway through that. I started teaching myself and as so often happens with communities that one you know it after twenty seven years of which i was there for twenty It fell apart collapsed. It ended it served. You served your needs and it grew. You grew me. It was you it had it had. It's it's good it had it's good bad and ugly parts like like human life ten lifelines. Yeah not not not much different than the rest of life Somehow i managed to really i think. Get the best of what it had to offer and avoid A lot of the worst can so. I immerse from that community. I knew a lot of people. I have been the director of education of our programs and so it was very natural for me to continue to teach And that's essentially what i did. And that's what i've done for the past eight years or so so you certainly are the person to talk to about this. You know and one of the things. I think i would like to make clear on this show. Is that there is a. I think there's a misunderstanding even among current mystic teachers mystic students that there is something really special about the mystics as they've got this really uniquely unique relationship with the divine and they have visions and and sort of extraordinary experiences and the people that i'm reading now especially i'm reading. I'm reading a thirteenth century. Mystic julian of norwich and she is very strong on the ordinary life on the integration of daily life and the so called mystical spiritual life that the mystical spiritual life is not just this time with the divine with god or with whatever whatever the the higher source may be. Let me let me give you a little quote that i read on julian and see what you think of this. I'm i'm really falling in love with you should norwich. And and and she was She was just for those who would know. She was in ankara's which means she was confined to impart -ment her entire life. She can never leave. It never leave. And they brought her food into a and she had a window on the street where people came by and got spiritual counseling from her so she had interactions with people but she never left and there was another window that lead in to the sanctuary so she could. She could participate in services. It was at a church but she. Just you know an anchor anchor right you know they live completely alot and she wrote this While she didn't write this Robert knepper. If i'm going to Mess up his last name but grew worth i believe is the way you pronounce it. And he wrote this of julian. Julian realizes that she does not need extorted extraordinary mystical or visionary experience to realize the compassionate intimacy with the divine. Julian sees ordinary human life. If lived in surrender as a as a way of divine intimacy and closes with this. If there is a bridge to divine reality it is already here in our ordinary life. How does how does that that quote strike you. Well that's that it strikes me as beautiful as strikes me as as a very true i feel very aligned with that with that sentiment Yeah this is tricky territory because like you said spiritual experience you know kind of extraordinary experiences big. They tend to get all the press. Yeah yeah the theresa. The 'cause they're you know they're they're extraordinary and inspiring and they're exciting and it's not to say that they're not valuable. Certainly they are valuable They aren't the point they don't they don't what really matters. And i love what you said in that quote what was said in that quote that really living a surrendered. Life is what brings you is. What brings you in divine union. That's what brings you contact with divine. Not explosive experiences not found mystical experiences. I mean those have evidently helped in some people's cases and the experiences that i've had have certainly helped me but they're not the point And i often will tell people that. What is so beautiful about meditation. And this you know. I take a particularly mystical approach to meditation Not always sometimes. I'm just teaching in it in a more secular way but but i also am very inspired by the fact that when we sit and we just do nothing. We don't try to change our experience. We don't try to manipulate our experience. We don't try to make anything other than what it already is. We just simply sit and rest perfectly content with the way things are i. Don't see any higher form of worship than that because to me that feels like placing yourself sort of right in the arms of the divine. And saying i trust you completely and so i feel no need to try to change anything. I feel perfectly relaxed. Perfectly content to just be with you and and so in terms of union with the divine. I feel that that kind of surrender into silence is is some of the most powerful experiences that i personally Ever have so. That's it feels very resume now. Of course he's talking about in life and and there's an equivalent in life which is to live a surrender surrender to the process of living which is actually a little bit more. I've never. I've never heard that term. I like that surrender to the process of living. You know i i very familiar with surrendering our. You know what i call. Our small self are selfishness in our self needs and self-centeredness but but surrendered to the process of living. Because that's a beautiful idea job that that's really good because there is a process of living that we're trying to make who would. We're trying to almost epiphany. Is it and make it wholly or or we look at it as if it's completely unholy when it's not win. When will we surrender that process. Then we are surrendering to the divine right. Absolutely because you know life is the divine. There's not a separate divine. Yes i so yeah. There's no other divine that outside of life this process this energy this life force. That moves us. That animates us. That creates everything that's what the divine is Precisely yes there's no other place to find it except in life. I always struggled. You know in my in my early days. Before i was really really so steeped into into this tradition but i've always dabbled with it and i always struggled with the idea of the of the spiritual and secular life to say there is no such thing there is no life that is not the spiritual life because if we believe in divine if we believe in god or wherever we want to determine that then this entity is involved in every single aspect of life. Not just this worshiping in a holy center in a meditative in a meditative surrounding or in a church or in astra or in a mosque. You know it's not that's not it's it's not defined distinctly by those appearances i it's it's every spiritual life is life. There is no life that is not spiritual life absolutely. You know that's an interesting about that is the whole idea of there. Being a secular life is really a very modern invention. Try to you. Know the the arising of the enlightenment and rational thinking and the scientific worldview in the middle ages they didn't talk about a spiritual life as opposed to their was as you were saying it was just life and god was the source of it and that was Nobody thought differently so it wasn't until people started to believe or start to disbelieve in some kind of higher power. Got all all of a sudden. The idea of a secular existence was bored. You know i. I have never heard that but but but in all my readings that supports what you're saying. Hey look you know going back. Quite a ways going back. They may not talked about the divine life but they certainly talked about what i may call the divinity of the ordinary life and that's a stoic. I mean look at this. Stokes everything in life itself in your ordinary in your ordinary living in what you ordinary. What you did on a regular basis talked about your character your internal being who you were on the interior and the stokes were very you know to talk to them about a a secular life and thoughtful life would be like what are you talking about. What is what is the difference right absolutely and you know i also will will. In speaking to people are teaching. I will point out that if you think about it and you think about life the whole thing is a miracle you decide that you and i are speaking the fact that we understand language the fact that we're even here none of this. Am i responsible for he. The it's i couldn't Create a world and a body and mind if i hadn't been given it then You know i would be lost and i. I often like to point out to people that in order to not see how divide and how miraculous life is you have to ignore. Almost everything was almost all miraculous in the little bits. That art are usually what we ended up focused on. If we're not if somehow thinking missing that point. It's funny. I was i was on. I was on a plane. One time sitting next to a physicist and i asked her i said with everything. You know about the The the elements of of the cosmos. How can you not. How not believe in italia logical argument in that there is a purpose and there is some entity that put this all together and She was not a person of faith by any means but she said just stubbornness. It's just too stubborn to admit that. It's not all about us. And and i thought that was such a fun response and and she was quite a bright person. You know what i wanna do now is i. I really the intention part of the intention of this podcast is. I want to bring this so-called this almost airy-fairy mysticism contemplation which you know i spent so much time. Doing i want to bring it down to earth and and you talked about that i that i really lie to you. Know in our conversation that most of That that that are entry into the spiritual life for most of us can be discovered in our disappointments are stresses and pressures of everyday life in. And we're looking for a way to somehow manage this discombobulated existence in what i call the accomplishment oriented culture from but i'd like to know from your point of view. How do you describe or how would you. How would you describe the relationship of stress pressure and the american way of life. How does that. How does just that by itself. Impact our souls. How does that impact our inner. Well we can Yeah this is a great question So let me just back up. Step sir. When i'm teaching meditation In a more secular context. I usually start with my own little miracle which was actually a pretty big deal to me But as a young person and as a young man i was incredibly anxious as so many people are and and one of the one of the things that i suffered from was very bad excellent which is a skin condition which often somehow seems to be connected to emotions and early on in my spiritual life after discovering a spirit of community. I had very very powerful spiritual awakening in meditation and my extra went away. I had had excellent since i was a small child. And and at this point. I was probably thirty two years old. And i'm now fifty six and i've i haven't had it since and and what's interesting is i can describe all kinds of amazing spiritual experiences that i've had but often what moves people. The most is the fact that it c- meditation seemed to cure my excellent. And and that's because people can relate to that because as you're saying the stress of life you know this we live in a in a cultural context which put so much pressure on us to to accumulate to accumulate wealth to seek for happiness to try to build a life of happiness. It it convinces us that every next thing is going to be the thing that makes us happy And we end up in that in that wheel of constant accumulation and all the pressures associated with it and people are really suffering. I do some individual. Coaching with people and many of them are just profoundly suffering with symptoms of anxiety and stretch. I i had to leave my career. Because of anxiety was an executive coach high level business executives. And i got to where i would get exiled of going to see them and i had great relationships. I mean it was not like there was nothing stressful. Nothing there were no problems. I had wonderful relationships. And i started stuttering. Mean i just. I couldn't even have a conversation with us stuttering and and it was all anxiety. And i don't know where that came from but but it does anxiety especially does replicate itself in our in our physical and are physical beings in the way. We live everyday life. And and i agree that meditation is a was. A great help was a great. It's amazing and the thing that When i'm successful in and really changing the way someone's thinking it's a fairly simple realization that i called the miracle of meditation. It's a simple realization. But that doesn't mean it's not subtle and challenging also but it's we are convinced and culturally conditioned to believe that we cannot be content and happy and relaxed unless our minds are content and happy and relaxed and so because of that we're constantly trying to manage our inner atmosphere of our inner mental atmosphere. We're constantly trying to give ourselves choppy experiences. Give ourselves pleasant experiences. Ovoid negative experiences. Avoid pain and and what i i really endeavor to do with people is to show them that actually. You can't avoid negative experiences. You can't avoid paying you know you. Of course we all want to feel better. We all want to have more pleasant experiences. But you never going to completely avoid the negative challenges of life but the fact that those exist doesn't mean that you have to be discontent you can still be just as relaxed and open and content even in the midst of challenging experiences if you learn That that you're not your mind. Your mind might be experiencing all kinds of things but you don't have to go with it. You know i had never. I have never read nor heard that just in that that you are not your mind because i am. I am cursed with being a thinker and with the curse of thinking. I can run that risk of being where my mind is. That's where i am. And yet i know the holy in the divine and my inner spirit are apart from my mind. But i've never thought of it in that terms that in those terms that i am not my mind and my mind is actually can be an enemy. You know what i wanna do. Is i want to continue with this. And and what you were talking about is a whole different kind of joy and and it it is. It is not in line with what we particular particularly in american culture will define his joy. What i'd like to do is i'd like to take a break. And then i want to come back and i'd like you to describe to us what this different kind of joy might look like that. Okay absolutely okay. Let's take a break Hi this is. Charlie hedges and you are listening to the next chapter with charlie. Today my special guest is jeff. Carreira and jeff is an unusual mystic. You know we we hear so much about mysticism and it and it just sounds so airy-fairy and so other worldly and so wonderfully at peace with the divine and nothing in life matters except that you are you know floating on cloud with god and that is that. Is you know there certainly bits of truth to that. Certainly there are bits of truth to that. But there's a whole different aspect and and jeff brings a very balanced approach. He brings that approach but he brings a balanced approach and we talked at the break before before we started the break that jeff was going to describe to us what a different kind of joy is instead of the joy of the minds that have happiness and all that we seek that there is a different kind of joy in life Jeff tell us about that fantastic Well charlie what i'd like to do is is start with a very brief story about One of the most profound spiritual experiences that i had. Because i think it very illustrates that deeper joy in a way that hard to just talk about. But i was on a meditation retreat and that the reality is i was not born a good meditators. I really did not like meditation. And i struggled to even stay awake. Usually meditation for years so honest retreat. I vowed that i would not fall asleep during meditation. And so i did everything i could to stay awake including biting my tongue. You know sitting it uncomfortable. Anything that would keep me awake at one night while i was incredibly tired But i was meditating so i was forcing myself to stay awake. I suddenly had this very strange thought. That i'm not really tired. And suddenly everything shifted and my body was just as tired. My mind was justice tired. I still had all the symptoms of being tired but the person that was seeing those symptoms was completely awake. And i realized that i'm not the mind or the body. I'm the awareness. That's aware of the mind in the mind and that awareness is always aware and it's always awake and it's always okay And and what happened. Was i went to sleep that night and my i felt my body fall asleep. I felt my mind fall asleep. But i was still there. My mind and body were completely asleep. And i was there and then suddenly dream occurred and i was. I was in a gas station in the stream. And i realized oh my god now. I'm dreaming but i'm still awake. And then the dream went away. And i was gone but i was still awake and then eventually i woke up in for three days. I couldn't lose consciousness so i was. I was conscious and awake all day. And i was conscious and awake while my body and mind slept at night and when i discovered in the hindu tradition they. They speak about that as turia. It's the fourth state so it's beyond waking and sleeping states and in that recognition. I found myself chacin. Aided by life fascinated by the experience of being in a body walking around shopping breakfast. I had no idea anymore. What the difference between meditating and not meditating was you know because i was just scientists awareness all the time whether i was walking around having breakfast or sitting in meditation you're all seemed somewhat relevant but all kinds of fascinating And suddenly i just thought should be a conscious being is so miraculous There's a sense. This deep sense of how lucky i am to be alive. And to be conscious and that depth of joy you would say joyous life joy of being alive gratitude for being alive his dare you know and of course on the surface there's moments things that make you happy things that make you unhappy things that make you angry things that make you sad things that make you excited Life continually stimulates on the surface fluctuations of our experience some more pleasant some less pleasant but below that surface. There is this underlying joy of being that is is part of all of our experiences. Just we don't normally see it because we're normally so focused on the fluctuations of the surface and we're trying to always get that surface to stop fluctuating and and because we're so focused on the surface of are being. We were disconnected from the the depth. That exists there. The depths of being misteps of awareness awakeness in the hindu tradition. They speak about it as sightseer nanda truth. Consciousness bliss it's the underlying joy of being and it's completely independent of what might be happening on the surface. And so the more you know. Ideally our spiritual practices are spiritual studies. Bring us more and more in contact with the joy of being alive with the essential Majesty of being alive and and yes ups and downs of our fluctuating experience. Continue but they don't bother us so much in the same light they don't become what it's all about because there are no longer defining you exactly exactly. That's beautifully They're no longer than most important thing. You know now you discovered something more. I have found that. That would be the way i would describe. Divine union. is that that in that awareness in the union with the divine there is an awareness of all that is going on and and i like that that that there's an some sort of healthy attachment to the things that are going on our life but there's a detachment and it's really. It's really critically written in the studies. That i that i have done is Annihilation of self and detachment and that we must detach ourselves from the not from the situation but the way i put it. This is my this is charlie interpretation is that we don't necessarily detach ourselves from the situation but we had to detach ourselves from that situation emotionally and physically driving us to what we decide what we're going to action that it is it is no longer the driver it is existent it is real we suffer with it we deal with it but it is not the driver of the action there is something much purer which you know in my tradition we call love and service and and those are those are those supersede all of these other things and i love your idea again. awareness of this Go ahead you know. It's interesting that the christian tradition the christian mystical tradition. And the you know what. I'm aware of of the hindu. Mystical tradition have different language. But the end in the end what they're describing from my experience at least seem so similar And and i love your use of divine union either because that awareness that joy of being that the awareness. That's behind everything that's always there that's alive me alive and you and alive and every single individual you know i believe. That's what in in a christian tradition would often be talked about as divine or god. It's we go ahead. Yeah when we when we contact that when we rest in that when we recognize that that is who we are. That's when i think we're experiencing divine. It's almost as if you're reading my dad. I i told you my notes or chords that direct our our conversation and it's also as if you've you've gone onto the next court because that's exactly what i wanna talk about. Let me read i. I wrote a couple of sentences here. And then i want your impression of them I am deeply involved in christian medicine mysticism but that is almost a misnomer because mysticism is found in several traditions. Each with their own distinction. And so it it's involved in religious and nonreligious but they each have their distinctions yet. They are so similar. What while christian mysticism may person may may focus you know the focus and christian mysticism has always on On the christ. But i have found almost shocking similarities and other traditions. In fact today. I mean As of the last couple of weeks after deep study of half dozen catholic catholic mystics. I am now using loud. Sue daddy aging. That is my those are my inspirational readings. Those are what. I'm writing on on the mystical life every morning. And you know. And i write about fifteen thousand words of journal a month and and and and i'm i'm journaling. The idea that i'm finding such christian concept's call christine concepts in loud sue but he didn't write them as christian concepts he wrote them just as truth as wisdom as the created truth in the created wisdom that is with all humanity and and With that i wanna to ask you a really difficult question and then going to get into your book before we close but I think you've probably answered this but let's just let's just kinda summit up what would be because. I'm still really interested in my everyday. Listener this listening to this podcast. That is not studying and deepening mysticism. And and sometimes you know. Prayer and contemplation can seem like you know this other worldly strange strange place. Tell me about your concept of mysticism especially as it relates to the everyday person. I know we've dealt with that all over but you know if you'd kind of on that up for me absolutely and you know one of the languages i like to use Because everything's about. What language do you use one of the languages. I like to use his around. The idea of a paradigm and different paradigms and and so mysticism in a way is a different paradigm is a different way of looking at reality and the thing is we are all in side of a paradigm and in in the secular western world. You know the world that most americans are living it There's a story about reality and it doesn't seem like a story when you're inside it just seems like that's how reality it And it has to do with with you needing to accumulate To attain things you need to create the circumstances that will make you happy. It's a story. That tends to point outward to find happiness defined fulfillment. You'll find it in the right job or the right relationship or having enough money or having the right friends or going on vacation you know. But everything is pending to point you out side and what the mystics discover of all traditions. Is that true film that is found within. And and that's what what what mystics tend to do they. They they look with him. They find that source of inner joy. The one that isn't dependent on circumstance and they learn to rest in that and then as they rest in this inner joy they start seeing through the facade of the ideas. About needing and accumulating And and and you just start to see these substance. It's all a story. It's not actually true you know. And then it's the more the further you follow that path of more. It becomes obvious you know there are just as many unhappy people who are rich as there are unhappy. People who are poor accumulation doesn't seem to do anything the necessarily to help. And so you just you know. The whole idea of mysticism is that you look under the surface so we all have a surface reality. It's the story that our culture has told us about. What's true of course. Most people that you meet are going to believe that story. We all believe that at one point or another can still do in cultivator extent. What's that i said. We're just so inculcated with it yet. On a regular basis it is and the mystics start to see beyond that story. They start to see a deeper reality and the deeper reality that they see leads to a kind of film it that just isn't available in cultural story. So that's how i would sum up mysticism for kind of non mystic. So so we. I i wanna talk about your latest book higher self expression and i love the subtitle holiday. Become an artist. Possibility is is that the book. Or what book would you say. Describes would be best for our readers to understand that. Does this book do that. Yeah i mean that's that is actually not even totally my most recent book but it's it is oh it's not okay. Recent book that i've written. I have a couple of things coming out. One just came out in the malcolm but anyway that's a whole story but this is a really significant book And i think in that book he'll you know people will find the the heart and soul of what i teach and what i believe which is right along the lines of what we're saying I believe that spiritual pursue mystical pursuits are. The value of them is their creative potential because we live in a world of possibilities. Can there's only so many things possible in this world but truly creative people. They begin to sense things. Envisioned things imagine things that could be possible but aren't yet and as they envision. Those possibilities articulate those possibilities explore those possibilities with more and more people they become possible. And that's how new possibilities or bore into the world and when you look. And and that's what i do in this book when you look at spiritual figures so in this book. I talk about The hindu saints romina maha-rushie of the twentieth century and ramakrishna th century. Also talk about another christian spiritual hero of mine thomas merton but right alongside them is i speak about a great literary figures like and he's named fernando gertrude. Stein artists like kandinsky and even big wave surfers. who and in extreme sports artists and what. I'm showing is that to these people who are so explorers on the edge of the possible whether they are inside of a explicitly spiritual context or even if they're doing extreme sports they relate to what they're doing as spiritual. It's their way of finding lutely do you. Do you have to be a special. Is there something that is needed to be creative person or do you feel like there is a creative dimension to most people are to all and the way that i would want to say that charlie is that we live in herod creative universe that awareness that we are is inherently creative. It's look it created this whole world in created every single thing in it and every thought that's ever occurred to anyone was created in that source of of awareness that is divine and we are all that and so the only thing that's required. I don't believe that people have creative talents. I believe that people are open to the creative slow of the divine of the universe of the cosmos. And so what's what's required. And what i try to teach what the book is about is charter. We open all of that creative potential so that more and more of it can float through us and into our lives in different ways. That's beautiful i. I i'm Interested you know. Usually podcasts would have read the book. But i haven't read the book now. Now you've convinced me. I need to. I need to get the book Kicked before i go to before i go to china on sunday but i doubt i can get it that quickly This is this is sounds like a very important read. I i really want to encourage everybody that this is. This really is the art of life. This is the beauty of life and and we are so inundated. You know with you know. I'm such an anti media. Anti press person. We were just so inundated with garbage and with problems and troubles with. Let's let's have contradiction and let's have you know. Let's not have unity in this. This is a whole different life and this this offers so much more new. Bring so much to the table. I'm going to put your website which is jeff carreira dot com right That's right okay. So i'll put your website on the show notes. I will put An amazon link on your book on the show notes that i want people to get a hold of you. Is there anything that That in wrapping up anything. You would like our audience to know that we haven't talked about. Well all i would wanna say is thank you charlie for having me. It's really been a pleasure to speak with you and thank everybody Who's listened And i just. I just want everyone to know that i know these difficult times But we have the power to really make new possibilities for the world. And i think that's that's the most important thing we can do together is create a new possibility for the world so I think that's what you're doing with this podcast. Charlie and i very grateful that you invited me to be on it. Oh it's such a pleasure having you on this is This is really incredible. And i want to thank you for for being on a podcast and spending time with me and i just love. The discussion is in in especially since is so rare to talk to somebody that that is in tradition. As i am. That is as a student as you are with such great insight. Thank you so much. I really loved having you on the show. Thank you so much charlie. I loved it as well. I want thank all our listeners. Tuning into the next chapter with charlie and be sure to check us out at our website the next chapter dot life. And if you want these podcasts and weekly weekly podcast and weekly blogs just sign up and they will show up on. Podcast show up on wednesday log show up and thursday on sunday and until next. This is charlie hedges signing off by for now.

Carreira jeff charlie charlie hedges Jeff carrera Jeff carreira Mystic julian Robert knepper norwich julian Julian mystics thomas merton kearney Charlie hedges shelby ankara turia chacin jerry
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#205 Andy Robin: The Tapas Life

"Welcome everybody. It's time once again. For the next chapter with charlie hedges as he explores turning the page on his life. And your hey charlie tape paul. Let's start today with this. You could be retired for decades so you might as well get good at it. Our guest today andy. Robin truly loves what he writes in his recent book. The tapas life. Andy articulates fresh ideas about living a delicious life. One with all the tastiness of the toughest meal for those of us not familiar with that spanish idea of tapas. Just think of a meal consisting only of several appealing appetizers. With no course on this show andy will share how a life of what he refers to as prototyping versus creating a grand plan and he then provides generous wisdom in retirement. But also for those smack dab in the center of today's busy and demanding world of work. Andy robin is a man of deep revolve of wisdom about how to live with full vigor and full vitality please enjoy my conversation with andy robin as we share a taste of top meal. Andy robin welcome to the next chapter with charlie. Why thank you charlie. Thanks for including happy to be here. Good i'm so glad you know you know andy. I've been looking forward to our chat today for so many reasons and none the least of which is the diversity of subjects we can. We can discuss. Obviously we will get in depth regarding your delicious book. The tap is life and then there are so many other fascinating subjects like twenty years living in mexico city as a youth and young adult. Your success in technology half a decade as a house. Dad and your intriguing notions of what. I'm calling the so-called retired life. And so i think where to begin so what i've decided andy is. Let's start with none of the above course of course pre-discussion you shared with me former french president. Charles de gaulle's four principles of life. Which you treat us with those principles. Yes sure his first one is always sees the initiative because if you don't seize the initiative then you will be part of somebody else's initiative dancing to their tune is second one was always exploit the inevitable because you know it's inevitable anyway you might as well get in front of it and writer right right figure out how you connect loyd it. His third one. Which i think is most appropriate for a politician but good for the rest of us is always stay in with the outs because the people who are out now may come back. And if you've been mean to marine marina stayed in touch with them and that will be a problem for you and of course of course the first one is the wisest of all namely never get caught between the dog and the lamppost. And you know that's that's that's what avoid that that's metaphor metaphorical as well as literal. You certainly don't want to get caught there And the third one and and the third one is about the ends in the outs that sort of you know. I have sort of a divine sometimes christian approach my podcasts and that sort of jesus way of doing things he focused on the audis and not the enemies and and that's certainly that certainly well. It worked for him until they decided to kill him for it But but so. So you know what i i would like to just talk a bit about the the first two axioms of wisdom that i think just can't be ignored and that is seizing the initiative and exploiting the inevitable. You seem to have led a life that is filled with both of those tell me about that. How how those interrelate with your life. Okay i will. I mean exploiting the inevitable. My dad was an entrepreneur moved the family for mexico city to mexico city from chicago when i was seven so i didn't have much choice but exploit the inevitable there but as far as seizing the initiative i guess having grown up in both the us and mexico I came to understand that there were different ways to look at things because the two countries and their mentalities are pretty different And so it became clear to me in a broader sense that there are a lot of different lives that one can choose to live on the planet and for better for worse. I think her worse. Most of what our life is supposed to be like as dictated dictated to us by advertising and popular culture. And so a lot of are dancing to that too and i always like to seize the initiative by saying well. Here's what i'd like my life to be like it's the concept of be the author of your own life now when often crafted the life. That was the way i wanted it. And i'm not always in sync with everybody else and i sometimes Have been ridiculed or had people ask me. How come i'm doing that or whatever and i certainly don't care as i'm living the life i want to live so i've gone about it. You you know you you you used. I think an important verb that that that is meaningful in my life. And and i think for all of us in you used choosing that we do have a choice and yet we. We don't seem to grasp the even the idea that we have a choice. We we sort of feel like life is prescriptive and and we have to follow this prescription. And what you're suggesting is no you. Don't that you you can prescrip- your own life and and and as we will get into much deeper especially with your book that the tap is life we will get much deeper into that but i do like the idea of choosing that that seems important in as we talk previously seems important in your life. Would you agree with that. Oh it's super important. The the phrase i like is that you are at choice you can choose and in my coaching work Oftentimes a client will say well. I should do this right half to do that. And i'll say actually that's a choice you know that causes people to stop and realize that. Oh yeah. I guess that is a choice. In fact my wife who Among other things teaches leadership executive coaching. She loves to do an exercise at a pair of people where she says you know one of you tell the other one about a difficult situation you were in and talk all the way through it. And they do that. And then she says okay rewind back to the beginning and now do that again noting all the different places. You actually made a choice where you could have done. Something else could have chosen differently. And actually when you do that with somebody who suddenly realize just how much choice you have all the time. But unfortunately he to commonly. We don't recognize situation. We fall into that should do. And we don't think the choice is ours that we have to follow somebody else's instructions or somebody else's ideals or plans don't we. Yeah unfortunately so. An as opposed in a sense. It's the path of least resistance because we don't have to think but at least in my view of life while that's a lot left on the table it it is it is an an and can't can't wait till we share your banquet table And and i'm just teasing people letting them know that's going to come later in the podcast but you offer a delightful and delicious banquet table So let's let's to. I'm gonna do a little bit about your life because you in our in our pre interview you you just fascinated me was so many different things all right so so. Let's go back Point years or so and you are a stable guy as you put it in executive positions in the field of technology and Then when your kids were the ages of thirteen and fifteen. A change of roles occurred in your family life. Talk to me about that. Exactly right so if we roll back a few years beyond that When my wife and i got married are we hit at that. Point spent some months talking bad what we wanted our lives to be individually and the other and one of the things we realized is that although we were both at good places in our career and on the way up i was a marketing director and she managed sales and marketing. The thirteen western states burn industrial automation company. We both wanted to have our career. We also both wanted to be at home caregivers. We both like kids. Find him fascinating and wanted to be there for them and with them and so we talked about different ways. We could go about that. And we finally settled on sequential and so the agreement was my wife would leave her career temporarily so we would have kids and You know she could breastfeed him better than i could. And she was a great at home mom with the little guys and was graded him installing morals and ethics. And right from wrong in the little guys with my help in the evenings and on the weekends again the agreement was when they were around six or eight or seven and nine we would swap. What happened is she found a new career she found she liked interpersonal work and so she went back. Got a masters and phd net and that postponed the swap until the kids are thirteen and fifty and so on friday afternoon and now my executives at the company. I work at took me out to lunch. You know asked me I have lost my mind or what it was that i was going to go home and be a house. Dad was like yeah. No this is what i choose to do. This is what we have to do for years. And now we're doing and on saturday morning. My wife left out three week business trip to australia and i was instantly house dad on you know i. I knew something but Certainly had a lot to learn. I'm sure got a few pointers here and there but had a great time with it. Some would think it odd but if finds it you and parenting very similarly and you had some ideas about parenting that were not common for you know high school age kids and and and the sort of sort of role of parenting and strong strong guidance and direction and getting permission you had you had a whole different view. Tell me about that different. Approach that you use with your children when they were going through early adolescence or mid adolescence. Sheriff charlie the fact is my wife had a little bit more control over our kids. Maybe a little bit shorter leash and when i took over i saw the kids as they had become. I thought they were pretty smart and reasonably responsible. Yeah did crazy stuff that teenagers all do a certainly luffing anywhere near as the crazy stuff i did as a teenager and so i looked at him and sent. Look i'm i'm not that controlling like mom and so here's what we're going to. Do you know you kids. Go to school and try to learn something and i know sometimes it will be boring. You'll have lousy. Teachers tried to learn what you can. I promise it will be in large part useful later in life and the accurate school If you come home grand. I'll give you a snack. Could go somewhere else here. Tell me where you went anytime. Move around from place to place call. Let me know where you've gone and you do your homework. He home by six. So we can eat dinner together and You know have fun. Learn and grow and have fun explorer and You know you'll have a a time. You need to be home at night and then it will change depending on how old you are hurt that nine. How mature deal. Yeah so. I guess i said i'm trusting you to be reasonably mature. I didn't say in my heart of hearts. I know you're crazy. Teenagers and not mature but mature enough. You know was years later. Dinner one night with the four of us when they're in their twenties and And our son confided that he looked at Our daughter is his little sister and and said hey This sounds like a pretty good deal you know. I think i told you that. I had a very similar Very similar inspiration when my son. I just have one child and when my son was about fourteen. I viewed my role as i was in a transitionary process from fourteen. To seventeen to eighteen is at. I was transitioning from a parent to a consultant. In that my. I realized my child was going to be making decisions whether i liked it or not. My child was going to be making decisions about his life. So i had a choice. I could either give these restrictions and that he must do this and follow me. That he's going to disobey all of them and feel guilty and you know sorta disregard me rather than i viewed. Let's chat about this son. Let's chat about what you have plans what you're going to do. Let's see what's wisest and and what's best what works and what's not. What does it work. And he was but he was like your children. He was raised with Very very strong boundaries. He didn't he knew what was allowed. And what wasn't allowed and and yet you know. When he went away as a result you know he. You know he. He had his chores to do he. He did a large is sports laundry. He did all of his is a baseball player. He played all sports but he did his sports laundry so he knew how to work a washing machine and when he left left high school he didn't go to college. You went right to athletics. And he moved from california to indiana and moving into an apartment with a bunch of guys was an easy transit. You it was in. It was an easy transition for him or is easier that he was used to making decisions. Used to choosing what to eat knew how to cook. A few meals knew how to do. The dishes knew how to do the laundry and it just it just jump started him into life rather than you know because he didn't go to a college where he was babysat he had to go into real world and act like an adult at nineteen years old. And that was that was just by luck that we that we came upon that. But it sounds very similar to the way that you rose that that you raised molly and molly and nick malia knit. That's what i thought malia nick those are similar they not they are indeed we. We had the good fortune that My wife when she was The at home parent came home one day and said we're gonna go here this team consultant speaker over at the middle school and we did a guy named david riera. Who's written some books. And that was the key point that stayed with me is yeah one day. They're you know they're they're not very direct about it but they don't want you to manage him anymore. They fire you then. The object of the game is to every hired as a consultant. So it's not Hey it's time to go to bed go to bed. It's a hang. I'm gonna build. You might wanna think about it. I noticed again actually. You're kinda crabby. Have a tough time tonight. That is so that that is so i. I don't wanna say un-american but it is so not the way we raise children now It doesn't seem to be but think about it. Surely the whole point of raising the kids is so that they'll become independent responsible ethical productive citizens and i would add problem solvers problem solvers. And you don't do that by keeping them on a tight leash give them opportunities to learn how so there are self sufficient Smell early is as you. And i talked about in our pre call. You know. I put each kid on a budget. When they got the tenth grade you have to tell us about the growing. That is brilliant till you do that kind of briefly for me but that is really. I think that was brilliant. And i did not do that and i truly wish that i had. He just briefly i. I kind of watch what kind of money they consumed eating and entertainment clothing not shoes or music equipment or sports equipment to kind of basic stuff and after some time of watching that i proposed i to our oldest. Okay we're gonna start a budget and Here's how much money. I think it should be for the month. It covers these things and we'll try a practice month. And then you let me know if it seemed about right or we adjusted. And then after the hour i said okay now. Knowledge is now. This is the real month you know. At the end of the third week of the real month more. He came back and said. I'm out of money. Dad and i can. I get some a next month's money i'm said. Yeah well that's not how it works. That's all there is there ain't no more. I'm happy to make some bag lunches this week. The next month a freshman and that was that we never had that circumstance again. 'cause he now understood. How budget works and he. I did the same with our youngest two years later. How how how. Many us are taught how to budget in everyday life. I mean it. It becomes well. I mean it becomes obvious because at thirty and forty years old. They're still not budgeting. And and and you. You get what gift you gave to your children to survive adulthood. That was that brilliant. I i wish. I had i. I had i had done that It would have it. Would i want alone really crowd of our son because when he was in college in college washington dc. He was volunteering and teaching personal finances. You know basic stuff like you know the budgeting of bitter. How does a bank account work have a checkbook at the time with inner city. High school kids and i love that. That's tremendous this tremendous before we before we get into the book Because i want to spend second half of our show on the book. I do have a bit of a maybe a little bit of a longer topic. But it's it's. It's something that i read in one of the various readings that i was reading about you and In that you are an advocate and this is important for all of us to catch in life. You're an advocate of prototyping versus creating some kind of grand plan of prototyping your life rather than the grand plan. We're the grand planners we are you know as you know you you can't help the beginning of the year the the year beginning planning all the planners jump out that one our year end our five year our ten year plan. And you're talking about prototype. And i think that is brilliant What do you have in mind when you're talking about prototyping versus a grand plan. Well i've done differently at different times charlie. So early in life coming out of college was kind of prototyping. I was trying to figure out where they fit in life inside. Tried some different things. Until i found something and the truth is after that i gradually created a grand slam and i lived it until i became a house and ever since i went back to prototyping. And so you know i didn't invent this. This is no this is designed thinking. It's move fast and break things. A lot of people work with this concept these days but the idea is especially for me after my long career. You know most of most of the things. I could do didn't have major consequences whether they went well or poorly. I mean i had to do a good job of parenting but beyond that i could try things. And if they didn't work out a well you know. I tried to mind the experience for learning. I by the way i i love that i love the concept of mind the experience or or mind your opportunities flesh that out for me. What in case. Because it's it's such a quick phrase to pass over but it is too deep into meaningful. Would what you mean by my knee experiment or or mine and and that that opportunity tell me about that. So actually example acura youngest might to college and i was done with the main years of parenting. But i didn't know what i would do and several mania wanna go you know. Use my business brain. And and i knew i didn't want to go back to the kind of stuff i was doing. But maybe something related. And i like the environment so i thought i'd get something in solar energy and i you know made up a resume and said it to ceo's of solar energy firms in my area at one of them actually responded and i went in and did some interviewing and i said i was willing to work hash pine for a tiny fraction of what i had been making in my long career and we sell them. We would do that for a few months and see how it was for us and at the end of a few months i think they decided that they wanted somebody. More like a formal consultant. Who would make pretty reports and graphs and charts. And that's not me. i liked take. Here's the meat of it. And i decided that halftime work at that point was really invasive my life so when i mind for learning i was like yeah actually. I'm pretty bored with business. In general even though this was something new. And i learned some stuff is kinda cool but the nature of the company and business you know working with people and political situations. I was like good a done with that after a few decades. So i learned that i learned that if i wanted to do anything. I didn't wanna do it at the time. That was too big a chunk right and that was in fact when the you know. The notion of of toppis of small dishes like the small dishes of spain started to harm in my help and i started to realize maybe having more small things would be a more interesting life and when small things. It's easy to prototype. You try it. I like it. I'll do more of it and by the way. Here's what i learned. I learned that when i was doing this. That was really nice for these reasons. Oh i tried it and it was turned out bad. Oh well how. Can i mind that for learning turns out when i'm doing stuff that has politics with other people involved. I'm good with that. I'm going to avoid that in the future. I don't know why. But it reminds me somewhat of Attributed to vanessa nelson mandela. Who says it's not about winning and losing it's about winning and learning and i love net in and i. I think that has to do with what you're saying there. You also talk about avoiding living on autopilot. that is That is so much you know once we get what we get in a routine or we get into a job like it or not. You know i. I've often said that. A bad known is better than any unknown. And so we'll stick into that autopilot bad known because there's no risk we know what to expect. We don't like what we're going to expect. But but there's there's little fear of there's complaint but little fair what you might mean by avoiding living on autopilot. Well i'll be quite honest of the last five. Six years of my long career high chose to be on autopilot. So i was done. I was bored. I asked to change what i was doing. Inside the companies. I was working at everybody sell nine or a great marketing guy. You've got to do that. And you know that was back when companies didn't say take what vacation you want. I had gotten to where a crude five weeks of vacation a year. And i really valued time with my family and i was really well. Paid and they kept. You know giving me more perks and so our resolve to be in a situation. That was kind of boring for me. Because i knew it inside out and that had politics i was bored with and done with and i stayed in them. I was being kind of a mercenary on behalf of the family. I knew the swap of roles was coming along. So i stuck with an now. Wasn't on total autopilot. Because it didn't just happen. I chose that actively and since stan since making that soi no autopilot for me. It's now always a choice and when stuff starts to be stuff. I don't like i she. How can i get that out of my life and install something else better. Yeah you talk about nothing you know when you go ahead. I was gonna say what you've got big family responsibilities and you're saving for college tuitions and perjury tirmal game. Sometimes make hard choices to do what you have to do. So here's what i wanna do i i. It is time to move into the tapestries. Life your brilliant book but before we do that. We're going to take a brief break. Hang in just about thirty seconds and we'll be right back. Okay Hi this is. Charlie hedges and you're listening to the next chapter. My special guest. Today is author whole life full enjoyment life. Living andy robin and he has written a new book titled the tap assed life now andy. I know you wrote this book with an intention for an audience. That's entering are already in retirement. But i found that the principles that you lay down in that book our principles pulls for life that apply to just about any adult at any age. So if you're not in retirement pleased. Owed turn off the the show right now. Because what andy has to offer are really sound suggestions For all of us. And so let me begin andy by saying what what led you to write this book. After after our youngest went to college you know. I had no grand plan and I had prototyping sitting there in front of me and it took me about four and a half years to assemble the life i wanted. I had no playbook. I had no guidance. Then you know. I read here and there but didn't really find anything very satisfying and pardon me. But that's that's really essential that people know that it took four and a half years. It didn't take four and a half days. Four and a half weeks four and a half months it took four and a half years it is it is what i call patients and the slow work of god. It is just that that to be patient that it will become known to you but never in the timing that you're expecting so i liked that four and a half years so please please mhm forward indeed and i mean the four and a half years culminated when i realized that i had assembled a great. He dynamic life but i was really just a consumer of resources in an enjoyer and a learner. But i wasn't doing anything other than being a dad and husband and my family. I wasn't really doing anything meaningful namely something that benefited someone else selflessly. And it was. When i found my meaningful talk at the end of the four and a half years that i i concluded. Okay now. i've got a nice life now. This is good. And that pointed has started thinking Not immediately but maybe within the next couple of years after that. I think all right about this. 'cause this was hard and there's no really good guidebook for how to do this so i figured i'd write a step by step book for assembling a pretty good life and A good chunk of the book would be about things to do things that you needed to do to assemble that good life and they have a life of doing and a good tranquil book would be about what you could do in terms of being how you might art man how you are and make yourself a better person in a filler person. Such good question. I simply and i'd write the book to it's part of my meaningful top. There was to try to be helpful to someone else. I'm certainly not in it for my stinking together royal I know before we get into the steps. I think it's important. I'm not sure all of our audience understands what tapa is. Can you explain that to me if you in spain and also around the mediterranean and the middle east Instead of doing like we americans where we have a large porterhouse steak on the plane and maybe some potatoes and a vegetable instead of that. Big main kurds. They eat lots of little dishes so you might have a little dish of greens. You might have a little dish of meat you might have a little dish of some veggie of some starch and you start off sooner meal by ordering a glass of wine and a few little dishes an annual Who still hungry and other few dishes and oftentimes you share with others at the table. So there's a bunch of these little dishes covering the table to table top and you serve yourself onto your own little Like salad plate. You know my my son is food. And he loves fine restaurants and he has discovered that what instead of tapas in fine restaurants. We call them appetizers and and he and his wife no longer or order main courses. They will order a half dozen appetizers because two reasons one they they wanna test everything in the restaurant and secondly chefs tend to put more energy and more creativity in their appetizers than they do in their main dishes. Because they're creating them all. The time and appetizers are changing so you can actually get the best food a restaurant in an appetizer. As opposed to a main course do. Would you agree. I i love it. And i totally agree. It's just a great way to do it so whether you call it. The tigers are meza's like in turkey or ups like in spain which the concept of putting together a lot of these little bites into a fine meal. So let's get into your principles you have some. You have some steps in principles that are flat. Brilliant so Let let's let's start with the white rabbit. Yeah have a check called white rabbit in the snowstorm and some people are like what what will she think about a big snowstorm coming down hard. There's a white rabbit out there pretty hard to sit. In fact all you see is a big sheet of white. The object of that chapter is you. Don't want your calendar to look like dad because you're rapidly become untethered and feel drift and those are things would lead to depression and it's like the ted the calendar of Pretty recently retired person. I know i went through a couple years of boredom and uselessness. And because i'd look at my calendar and there was nothing on my calendar and i was used to a totally filled calendar and so it i viewed as a reflection on my value. Yeah that's a. That's a depressing place to get to on a lot of people go there. It's really important therefore to land some structure like lansing things that you're doing in june every week whether it's simple things like you're having breakfast and Reading email the news crew doing laundry or you work out a certain number of times a week whether it's biking or machines and swimming or whatever it may be where you're meeting a friend for lunch a couple of times a week to get yourself out of the house or if you've got a spouse you decide you'll have a date night yourselves or with another couple or maybe you lay on our recreation like bridge or my john or something like that crossword puzzles. I have friends that are into crossword puzzles totaling illinois. And but you put chum on your calendar your is your isn't the white rabbit in the snowstorm right to starting to put some parts starting to put some trees in your in your in your white snowstorm exactly right and that really and once you've done that and as you add things to your life gradually as you prototype and see what you like bose activities add some more. Things to account agreed do they. Not th sort of they sort of breed on themselves and they grow in and of themselves starting small and it sort of grows as sort of like maybe not quite as as as frequent as rabbits but they they will they will grow and you will have more and more activities and then you may find you know for me. It's rituals you know i have. I have morning rituals. And and i will not ignore my morning rituals that. Are you know two to two and a half hours long. But i do it every day every day every day every day. And you know it's not at my calendar but i know from six to nine thirty i cannot. I cannot make an appointment until ten o'clock in the morning unless it's an emergency perfect. It's very grounding a charlie grounding. Yes on interestingly as things grow and you're telling guts too crowded then you have the and you can do just the nike so you can just undo it when you've got lots of these little dishes you shut schwann aside for now. Yeah that's great. That's great nike's nikes and typical opposite. So then you also talked something. I really liked to liked for especially retiring people. But i just see so many like you know you. Tie your son's budgeting our son in your daughter. Budget team You talk about catching up in doing first things first. tell me. Tell me what you mean by catching up and this this falls in case that second step may be and and to your to your point about this being useful to more than just people who were retiring or just retired you know. Make sure that you understand your finances. Make sure that you know what's coming in and let's going out so that you can not be of the people who runs up tons of credit card debt and then use a huge chunk of their income just to pay interest if you're married and have children make sure that you've got a will and a durable power of attorney for healthcare so if something happens to you god forbid people are okay and she's got decent amount of assets then get together at document. Don't wait until you're seventy because you never know when you're not you know. Have the bear you and the trouble the trouble of not doing that. Will you know the leaving it up to the state. The judges in in in a in a states e never fairly distributed. They're never distributed the way that you would distribute it and and it is. It is so worth the time and a little bit of expense to do that. You know Trust our trust and estate planning is very big in our life. So that's you know that's some important stuff to make sure you're up to snuff on any age but certainly if your retirement age a man i catch up on other things Alter many of us have a two car garage that hasn't seen a car in decades and they catch know us. I'm so do something good for somebody else for goodness sakes give that to goodwill him not to saint vincent depaul him that to some charitable organization where somebody will get to use those things instead of them filling your garage. And you'll feel a whole lightning of your lord and guess. What will you be able to put your car. Way your and have to wash. It is awesome nice side benefit. And you know. I noticed that it with myself andy is that i just purchased. I kept my computer for a while. But i just purchased a new computer a new laptop and a new ipad and i had the old ipad and the old in the old Computer sitting around. And i'm reading of these children. Poverty children that don't have computers in canada tin class online. Because they don't have computers. What are these computers doing sitting in my office. what am i gonna. How might possibly going to use boulder computers. I'm not. I'm never going to go to this. I'm never gonna go this. I patter this. Mac book you know they need to be given away. It's just it's a and i'm doing public service in doing so. I know that on the apple products. They have a good thing that built in less you. Wipe your machine so it's ready to give away right. I've done that they're clean. They're perfectly he sees. Yeah they're perfectly claim they're perfectly claimed you know i'm going to spend some time on one that i don't know if this three but something you mentioned and i think it's worthy of a bit of discussion and that is you talked about. Start doing something love. Now that makes all the sense in the world except how many people andy do not know what they love. They're not they're not in touch with that. What do you suggest what what our means to discover what you love. Many use a difficult word here. Eminem says tragic. How many people. I've spoken to in my sixty something here. Really don't know why. I guess we've been busy. These last few decades didn't have room but now she go back to your you. There was some you love when you were a kid. There was something a loved. When you're a teen there was something log when you're in college or your twenty s and that's a starting place. No it's only listening to music like the used to only get you know you go ahead and get on spotify or apple music or whatever music thing you like build up music collection and enjoy that if you really can't think anything love poker on with your friends and see what they love and asked if maybe they'll include you in something so you can try it. That doesn't work you know. We need a little bit. See what other people are doing in some magazines and see if there's something you might wanna give a try and now we're back the minded for learning bar like this. I think i'll do this urge more. But i didn't like this. I wanted to do anything like that. You know When i was six years old. I taught myself how to paint. Now i have. No i cannot paint. I can barely do stick figures but i have composition color capabilities. I do understand how to compose and colors together. And for seven years i was involved in abstract painting and i would paint. Ford is seven hours a day and it was totally enjoyable. But then because of a number of circumstances i realized i wasn't going to get any better at it and i had to either devote a lot of time to getting better at it or it was time to quit and start something new and fortunately i had the wherewithal decide. Quitting was not a bad thing. This was a great activity that i loved for seven years but it was time to move on to something different You're an advocate of quitting as well. Once you discover something you talk about. Not being afraid of. Quitting quitting is such a negative word in our culture in yet. Sometimes things need closure do they not while they really do. Not least in this in this retirement age. I mean it's one thing if he acquitted job right and you've got a mortgage expenses at a family. And so on. I mean that's that's a big deal. You better have something else lined up so you can take care of your responsibilities. If you've you know save guelleh earned well-saved well now you're at time when money is your primary concern. Now she try something and it doesn't feel good. You're you're it doesn't work for you or learn you didn't like it. Really not quitting just choosing What a great idea. Quitting you're choosing so what we do is as we wrap up here. What we're doing is we're adding. Tapas are we not. We're adding. let's let's just try different dishes that we would ordinarily order a main course and you know. I sort of sought her in my main courses in restaurants and now matter of fact tonight's my wife. Burt my wife's birthday and we're going to atop his restaurant and that's all they serve level and we're just and we will just experiment with a number of different dishes and and is that not what you're talking about a discovering something your love it sort of. I think you told me. Add top since stir Just just keep trying something different and and something's going to come along that's going to strike a chord and you will find maybe not something for your entire life but you will find something that's very beneficial for you for the next. Who knows your two to three to four years. Exactly and in fact one step further chapter called sales freely. And that's if you try the new turn out to have no talent for it and it can be settled by an observer that you failed miserably. Who cares there is no cause and plus unknown to the observer. You'll learn something you minded to learn and now you choose to set aside try different topper then really. It's been a long time in your life since you could take something on sale miserably and it didn't matter and it turned out instead to just a learning experiment i love it. Andy robin I am so pleased with this opportunity to explorer your experience and wisdom that you have to offer I i just i am. I'm in total love with the top idea. It is just you know. I'm in the midst of at seventy one years old entering a career an entering something new that has been percolating for nineteen months. I knew something was happening. But i didn't know what was happening. I just knew. I had certain disciplines. I had to follow in order to get clarity on what i'm to do. And the clarity is beginning to emerge. And i am so excited i. I am so excited about the future of my life right now. And that's it. That's seventy one you know. I'm i'm i used to be seventy one. You know you're a couch potato. But i'm i'm far from that and and it is it is it. There's both a there's both An experimental in luck factor and then. There is also a diligent effort. That goes into it at the same time. And it's a. It's a beautiful combination. And i think your book the tap us life really shows people Ideas of how they can pursue that. how can they. How do you prefer people get in touch with you. andy If folks go to tap slice dot com t. a. p. s. l. i. f. e. dot com. You know you can see more about the book and things people upset about it and Some excerpts and stuff like that and there's a link to amazon if you want to buy the paperback or kindle version And there's also a contact page where where you know so many more almost perfect. Yeah i ain't. I encourage listeners to do that andy robin thank you so much. Thank you for your book. Thank you for your wisdom and It is it is So nice to find other members of the choir and and make again for the phone conversation. Charlie and i hope you guys enjoy your top birthday dinner. Yeah i did too thank you so much. All right i wanna thank everyone to tuning into The next chapter with charleen. Please check out our website at the next chapter dot life and until next. This is charlie hitches signing off by for now.

Andy robin andy charlie mexico city charlie hedges thirteen western states burn i Sheriff charlie nick malia malia nick david riera molly Charles de gaulle loyd vanessa nelson mandela Charlie hedges spain Robin marina Andy mexico
#98 Austin Hedges: The Tension Between Contentment and Self Improvement

OC Talk Radio

47:25 min | 2 years ago

#98 Austin Hedges: The Tension Between Contentment and Self Improvement

"Introducing the new buttermilk crispy chicken biscuit at McDonald's. We don't need that music made with tender chicken. Let's lose the echo on a warm buttermilk biscuit perfect juicy simplicity of our buttermilk. Komo crispy chicken biscuits speaks for itself. Get it now for just three bucks and get a two dollars sausage mcmuffin with egg or a one dollars small hot coffee all from the one two three dollar menu simply your breakfast at McDonald's prices and participation vary cannot be combined with any other offer Combo meal welcome. Everybody's time once again for the next chapter with Charlie hedges as he explores turning the page John His life and yours. Hey Charlie Hey Paul boy. I WanNa tell you we have a special show today. Our guest is one of my very favorite people on its entire planet. It's my son Austin. Hedges is Austin is an expert on the subject. We'll talk about today which will be all about the tension between finding personal content with your life and the other side of a never any desire for self improvement are the two we even compatible and that's what we're going to talk about. You know I'd never even really thought of this subject much until Austin brought it up to me and the last couple of weeks and after a bit of consideration it truly is a vaccine question question between contentment and self improvement than which comes first. What are you going to do within? I can't wait to discuss it <hes> just briefly. Let me explain why I think Austin hedges happens to be an expert in his subject. Abject <hes> Austin's job is one in which employees are never supposed to be satisfied or content with their performance. He is a professional athlete as a starting catcher for the San Diego. padres improvement is always expected acted. Is it possible for a professional athlete to be content and seek to improve so let's see what Austin has to say about this Austin hedges. Welcome to the next chapter with your dad it had he's done a couple of weeks ago. You brought up the tension that we talked about the tension between finding self contentment and applying exercises of self-improvement. What what inspired you to come up with even such a thought you? You know I <hes> I didn't. I didn't necessarily come up with thought <hes> myself. I was <hes> I was working out with <hes> my strength coach <hes> during the off season we have some some great workouts together where we just kind of get each other where he he and I <hes> you know we listened to a lot of the same podcasts that I know. Even you've gotten me into <hes> read. The same books I think are just driven by the same things in one of the things that we're talking about because really in life not just in baseball. Everybody always wants to get better and not only. Do you want to get better but the people in charge of you want you in need you to get better because I mean that's <hes> that's what that's what goals are and that's what dreaming for that also leads to the feeling of never quite being enough and there is nothing worse then not just not being enough for yourself but also being not being enough for for the people that you want to impress people that you care about <hes> doing well for in pleasing them like it or not. We're all people pleasers. We all want people to like US people to be impressed by people to appreciate our hard work and there is that fine line where where you need to be able to keep getting better and striving to move forward but if you can't look at yourself and be good enough and also and then at the same time not care about what other people are thinking especially the people that you care about their opinion you know honestly if you're giving your best effort and that's not enough for them then those those then those people shouldn't be the people you care about impressing or <hes> just carrying about in general so <hes> I think it's just it's just something that he brought up to me. The strength coach <hes> and I just thought it was like man that is so spot on for <hes> at least the world I live then. It's very hard to find that balance. Oh Man I can see because <hes> contentment is something we all. We all yearn for yet at the same time self-improvement. It's all you hear about you. Don't hear about self contentment. They're not you know you don't have your two thousand eighteen goals for contentment you know how am I going to be content with life and content with what I have it's always about how can I improve <hes> I I was considering this and and it and it occurred to me that improvement as you just <hes> articulated is very often more about your impression of how other people think about you and that frequently has an impact on how you feel about yourself what you think other people think of you impacts the way you think about yourself now from your experience. How can you learn to value the appeal opin- opinion of others without personalizing it to determine some sort of lower value of yourself how man that is? That's the battle right there. That's that's something I don't think anybody will ever or figure out because no matter no matter what I think like I was saying before you just as a human being you just care about what other people think. You know whether that's whether that's in a positive or negative way like you want <music>. You want you want people to appreciate your opinion. They want you want people to like you to like to be around you. <hes> you know if you want to positively influence the world. If that's that's a goal of yours like it his mind signed like if you're going to do that like people obviously have to respond people have to have their opinion of what how you're impacting them because in my opinion either impacting people negatively or positively there's no in between and that's a very hard thing to grass. Sometimes is because you go you have five second conversation with somebody and in that in those five seconds you either impacted their life positively or negatively you did not nothing didn't just happen something happened so if you're going to try and impact positively than those five seconds with that person need to matter to you but they need to matter to you in in a way where if they take it the wrong way. That's okay if they don't if they don't respond in you're not that's not and they they don't really care either. That's also okay. That's out of your control. It's a very I think the whole thing about being okay with not just being okay but being proud of who you are in. That's in that being enough for you today just about today. It's a very stoic way of thinking. I think you know it's the very we're talking about like you needing nothing like if you don't need all these things you don't need money and cars and clothes and all these things like and that whole like <hes> you know the story the the challenge where I know Tim Ferriss does the you know as he he he dresses poorly in each nothing but rice and <hes> basically lives like he's a homeless person. Was it like once a month or something like that yes so he you can get that that feeling that feeling that perspective on life like well like everything was taken away from you material- materially are you are you are you is that is your life over everything should be able. Taken away from me at any point in your life and you should be like all right okay that means nothing. You know you know what's interesting and I WANNA be careful about this too much because we've talked about quite a bit on this show but <hes> we've talked about first and the second half living and first half living is very much ego centered and it's very much you're trying to build your character your reputation your desires your fulfillment so people know you and and and that's that's really quite okay. There's nothing wrong with that that that that's not a negative comment on that but then as Richard Roth Iras written in your second half that's no longer quite as important and you start becoming other centered sold centered heart centered and you're not as concerned about what other people are thinking of you and I found that's that's true with my life now i. I've been very fortunate and I've had I can't say I've had an extremely successful successful life but we're very comfortable and and you know we have the basic things that we need but I really don't think you have a successful life. Well one thing in in my lifetime that you've done tried to do failed completely not many no no I just I I guess I was comparing to the ultra successful people who as an average person. I have a success successful life. You're right success success. How you're defining it right now? I'm defining it yes and that and that I have <hes> great relationships. You know we're we're able to live comfortably do things that we like and we're able to do the most important thing that we like which is served people and we're able to were able to get involved in that but my point was. I'm not so driven by what other people think I. I can't say I mean it would be disingenuous us for me to say I don't care what other people think but it no longer impacts May to the degree and I think ideally it would be great if you could get their younger rather than get there at sixty or sixty five live there that you could get because I think the younger agent at a young a younger age matters anymore because you haven't I mean in general you haven't figured anything out. You haven't figured out the meaning that you want in your life but like at an older age like it's easier to do that and let's honestly it might be too late because you're in a point of your life where we're not trying to prove yourself anymore but like if you're in your twenties earn your thirties. You're trying to prove yourself. You still trying to make it. You know you've made it to like your like comfortable in life like you. Can you can think about retirement your family secure the real important and things and if you have good relationships could strong relationships and and your seniors goody then then then it's easy to not care about what people think because you've had so many years of maturing in that mindset that look this is what's important to me and I know that and I treated that way on a daily basis but when you're a kid you know whether you're in high school. Twenties thirties like I said you you're still trying to make it. You're still in that grind trying to get there in how to you in that on so many things are just out of your control the where you want to get as in someone else's hands so how can you tell me if I'm baseball player and I just got drafted high school. How can you tell me don't care what your general manager thinks? What do you mean that's the guy that's going to? That's that's the guy that has my career in. You know my dream in his hands you guys that he's going to make the decision to call me up and give me an opportunity so like but how can you you know care what he thinks because it's should be a direct reflection of who you are as a person and as a for example baseball player for someone else just a businessman or a worker whatever you're doing. How can you have how can you reflect your values and morals as a person and as a what you do to that person that matters if they don't see it that way man how how can you practice something really by yourself? How can you get to a state where their opinion it doesn't matter it matters and it doesn't think that's the whole I mean that's what we're basically talking about like how can you how can something how can how can something matter or not matter at the same time? How can you get better and be enough at the same time? They're completely different. They're so different they are but they're the same because they're different. I've been doing a lot of thinking about that stuff like <hes> same indifferent I if you believe in something or if you think of something remember that the opposite is just as big or small so like here's an example like I've been doing a lot of thinking about two words two words I think that really drove me my whole life and their negative things it was fear fear of humiliation fear of embarrassment I mean those are two huge. Things and I think I could relate to a lot of people because nobody nobody wants to get embarrassed. Nobody wants to feel that humiliation and it really doesn't happen that often. We are truly humiliated truly embarrassed these are like low points of that actually Lee happens but the fear of that is just as powerful the fear of anticipating. What probably won't even happen is just as bad as that thing actually happening in so but on the opposite side if you're going to be afraid afraid of humiliation you should probably be afraid of getting too proud to because on the opposite side of humiliation pride so you think of it like give it like a great option giving like a coin if a coin is resting if you stood a coin up on its side right so theory about <hes> so it's a coin standing up the head side is pride in the tail side is humility? <hes> is <hes> humiliation the so these are these are polar opposites as why they're opposite ends of the coin and the only the only difference between them is that fine little ridge of the how thick coin is a little penny. How thick is that even a millimeter? I don't even know but like that's the difference between going back and forth and too often. We just have the coin upside down on its tail side saw your feeling is the fear of humility in then once you feel feel that too much. All I want is the opposite right and so now I just I'm just GonNa flip the coin and I'm GonNa be super confident confident super proud and then realize Dang like being that cocky or confident even like Kutu confident is just as bad as being having the fear of humiliation because you're hurting the people around you just as much a hurting yourself with this false identity that this facade that you're putting on and so how can you balance that coin and have that resting up in win. It's tilting to one side. I'm starting to get towards that fear. How can I balance that back? DOC has to make it stand up because I'M GONNA WE'RE GONNA fall to that. Coin is very unstable and we're always going to be unstable or never just going to be Chilin where the coin just sitting there coins. Just don't want to sit there. One Little Gusta Wins GonNA knock you over but how can you take that blow to one side and bring get back with that opposite and I think that's kind of a really good like metaphor for what we're talking about of opposites being the same in as we call that paradox and I'm a I'm a strong believer in paradox you know. What I'm wondering <hes> as you talk about this? <hes> especially fair and humiliation do think it's stronger with people who are in the public eye like professional athletes where you have nightly you have ten thousand impeachable watching what you're doing and it is it. Is it a stronger a stronger influence <hes> well. I can't say it is stronger or weaker only because I I mean I can't. I can't necessarily relate to <hes> someone else because I think it's it's it's hard for people to grasp to to relate on like an like an empathetic level with people because whatever anybody's going through you could just have a death in the family and I could just have a bad day like you know I got a flat tire or something and we're talking about. If you talk to some normal person <music> somebody some unbiased person they'd be like well dude that had a death in the family had a way where stay than do that had the the flat tire. Well no not necessarily. It's just how you how you're feeling. Everybody feels differently about different. Things like the way you react to a definite death in the family. I might be feeling so bad about whatever just happened. That doesn't even seem the same but the way that I'm feeling about it makes it makes it that strong to me so like the way to describe it is like like me like if I strike out with the bases loaded in the ninth inning in for like you said in front of forty thousand people people watching on T._v.. You know yeah that's. That's that that that sucks for me but like like that's no. That's no more humiliating than anybody else's failing at their job because that's all I did. I just filled up my job in just because it but it takes a whole mindset to get there are to be able to do that because because guys as you know guys are just absolutely destroyed by that and it and it lasts for it can last for days can't it but I don't think I don't think it's any different than than than someone else with with with with the different job you gotta you gotTa salesman that that hasn't that just blew his fifth straight sale of the week. You think that guy feels worse than I do. I mean any let like you feels better than I do you just because forty thousand people were watching him doesn't mean he's not going into the same thing. It's a very relatable thing you see this as a very universal. It's a very universal thing. It's just how you it's it's just how you are perceiving and how much you care about whatever that success or failure is to you so for me. I don't think it's heightened. <hes> the only I honestly the the only difference is <hes> is social media. That's the only difference you can be publicly. judged run a daily basis in people have and people have the freedom to say whatever they want about. You and you can't say anything back as you shouldn't wouldn't <hes> because it's useless which is why I don't use social media but it's it's a reality social media huge social media can be a very powerful platform for people to have a voice and that's what it's there for but so many people abuse it and and they go on there and if you know if I wanted to I could feel I could feel really good about myself. One day and I could feel just feel the exact opposite the next day just based off reading what people think about me on that so that's that's really the only difference read what people think about you. Who <hes> you know let's get into a little bit of detail and and <hes> certainly most of us have a desire are most of us have not everybody have a desire some kind of desire contentment and happiness in life just that is that we we would like you know you read that constantly? You described a lot of it with when you were talking earlier. <hes> about performance measured contentment that I'm content with my performance <hes> but it's but it's much more inclusive in in relationships and legacy impact in the world you know there's a there's a lot of things so I'm curious Austin you know how would you define contentment or happiness in your life yes. They're they're very interesting words because I would like to use the words peace and joy more than content and happiness because I think contentment is. I think that's being satisfied five. I it just feel it's in this. Maybe it's just the way that I I see see these words. You know whether whether they might be defined differently but when I hear contentment the way I feel inside me with that word is like I'm good the way I am. I sort of finality exactly that's like I I I. I'm fine I don't I don't I don't need. I don't need anything else as it and that's part heart of the idea of what we're talking about. That's that's part of it but it's very very. I think it's very very wrong. I think there's a difference between contentment and peace high really son. I really liked that definition. I'm thinking I love Christmas time where where you know again. I've mentioned it on the podcast. We're in the habit of writing letters to one another and you know you write one to mom and I and and mom in me I guess it would be and I write one to each of unit so we we and and my letter to mom <hes> our our marriages that just such a fine state right now after thirty three years and I use the word comfortable which I think is I met by piece. I'm very comfortable at home very comfortable with Pam I I like doing things with their like just sitting around chatting with her and and we'll watch our TV shows in Ny but before we do it we could have a thirty minute to an hour conversation nation just about the day or about thought or about you or about life but it's but it's very comfortable so there is a relationship for me with being comfortable with where I'm at and having peace and serenity around it I I really liked that other thing contentment because because pieces sort of an ongoing ongoing <hes> aspect of your life whereas whereas there is a finality finally to commitment <hes> I have just a boatload more to discuss but before I do it. I think it's time we take a break. We take a break on our show so give us about twenty thirty seconds and we'll be right back <music>. Hi this is Charlie hedges in you're listening to the next chapter with Charlie and I have an extra special guest today my son Austin hedges who is <hes> professional athlete Catcher for the San Diego padres and we're discussing. Is there a place in life that you can find contentment. <hes> or as Austin use the word peace I like that that you can find peace in your life and at the same time be seeking self-improvement they. They seem like they're contradictory. Although as I've pondered the subject perfect I think they're not at all contradictory you can <hes> you you can have both and so my question for you right now. We're going to get to the bottom bottom bottom. Line question is do you think it is possible to be contented or peaceful while also having at the same time goals wanting to improve yeah I think <hes> I think it's kind of like the like the big picture small picture so like so so so everybody's got a big picture dream right. Everybody's got whatever there might be. Five years might be twenty years from now and everybody's got their small. You know the the small picture the I gotTa go to the gym today. I gotta eat healthy. <hes> you know I have to communicate with my significant other <hes> properly be loving be kind to people. You'll the little things the small picture the the day the day to day things and I think the thing that's the I know I've personally I think viewed in the wrong way for too long and and as you do the same thing. I'll never say I figured anything out so by no means am I saying I have anything farthest thing from it but one realization that I've had the newest thing. I guess that I am believing in correct me if you think this could be wrong but real goals are never actually achieve a goal is never a finish line. If you WANNA have peace and joy and be content and be striving to get better. You have to understand that the piece is forever. The piece is the part that never goes away that is is up to you like you can control your life on a daily basis on a second by second talk about you know talk about mindfulness staying in the moment you know all the of the self help book go to sayings right. They'll real. These guys aren't aren't completely full of Shit. They're going to be real but it's like how but only so but the the people that say it the right way actually give people away how to actually do it so I feel like the way that I've been able to apply it is has to understand that the piece that you can feel and you can expect more more than feel you can experience like as once you embrace what that that you are enough for not only yourself but the real the people that matter in your life you can you experience that piece more than just like I feel you can feel content in feel satisfied and feel <hes>. What was the other word <hes> I I? I guess just content satisfied <hes> just where you are. It's not really an experience. I feel like that piece is real experience. If we want to go like biblical like there's so many things that we will never understand the way we are the way you know the way God made us the only one of the things that he I feel that he has allowed us to do is just you get to experience and sit but you never get to understand. There's so many things that we don't we can't just explain it like if we could explain it and it was it was something that we could print out black and white. Everyone be a Christian. You know what I mean. That's people doubting because there's not black and white proof but you can't explain to me like I don't understand it. I just know what I'm experiencing in so long story short I guess like so that's the peace part but then the joy so like I like I'll flip the word happiness and turn to joy because happiness. This is a reaction to something good happening but joy is a joy bounces off. Joy goes hand in hand with the peace. When you live that peaceful life you were just in your joyous about life and you don't need good things to happen to you to be happy or to be to be joyful to be happy? Good things happen to you. You'RE NOT GONNA have bad day after bad after bad day and be happy you can still be filled with joy for life and for what you love in the world what you're trying to do in the world but that's the thing that's like. That's always that you're never going to. You're never gonNA it's not it's not a goal that you can ever like like like get to go. That's always once once you get to once you get to a certain goal like it's not like Oh. I now need to start thinking about new goals that whole time you were getting to that one goal you've already you've already had conscious or sub-conscious another fifty goals that are another six months one year five years ten years ahead can each give you joy and accomplishment exactly you. You're Joe. Yes for accomplishing that but like you it's not it's not a finish line. You know I'm wondering there are measurable goals that we have and and especially I keep going back to you as a professional athlete because it is very it is so goal and performance centered in performance. It's oriented and who are you today and those will give you a sense of I don't know if there are there even reached contentment or or peace because you know you're always always striving for more but I'm looking at <hes> and I wanNA use your piece instead of instead of contentment so because because I so agree with you on that <hes> that the tangible goals olds are limited in how much they can give personal satisfaction. It's the intangible goals is what's going on in your soul. It's how you view yourself. How you view the people around you how how you view your your role in the world especially if you have <hes> if you have resources to help the world your goal in using those resources to make this? It's a better planet. I think those are the kinds of things you can have goals around those and the whole process and the accomplishment to me are much more important than the tangible goals. Did that make any any sense. It makes perfect sense until I agree with that so so you're let's just let's just ask <hes> I kind of asked before but I but <hes> I want to ask could again for for clarity. Give me some real things that give you a sense of peace that you are you. Personally Austin hedges are are satisfied with Your Life at a young twenty six years old. I mean you have so far to go the things that give me peace in life. I guess just I it comes down to just like what what are your what are my priorities in life in. My priorities are very clear to me <hes>. A specifically over like the last six months I think I've had <hes> a lot more clarity. On how do we how come in the last six months <hes> I oh I think in the last six months I I I found God for the first time on my own you mom obviously raised me in the faith very well but it's different when you find him on your own and I had that experience and you know I I've always if I was ever going to like I was GonNa talk to somebody about my priorities. I've always said like my priorities Dodd family friends you know people close to me but God's always been number one but I I'm lying to myself and to him and other people if I say that because I don't treat them like that how can I how can I say God's number my number one priority if he's I probably wasn't treat them like my tenth priority. You only say a couple prayers maybe and then go on and go your Merry Way and do whatever you want how it's GonNa become your number one priority what has changed in your life he when I truly made the decision to put my life in his hands I've found I feel like I became I found myself. I found that I felt like I was enough. I felt like <hes> I felt like I could trust him with anything and he was take care of me and no matter what I was trying to accomplish <hes> whether it was a success or failure was for a reason and that either way I could be grateful for it or I could learn from it and this came at a very you know. We don't have to get into details but this came at most challenging time. If your life of what you were determining how am I going to going to approach life and what is going to be my my salvation so to put it exactly yes. I think it was kind of a hitting bottom then yeah when you when you when you have kind of a life crisis like this sport we play the sport I play is is it takes a toll on you and playing it for so long. I think I think last year <hes> during the season I it hit me in a way where we're things were things just weren't as clear as they always had been and I'd run out you've self-help books people to talk to podcast listen to like I did all the research I could do to get all the help I could do but these were all human things in human we just the the capabilities abilities that I have or even Tony Robbins has is nothing compared to what God can do and I just was over trying to figure it out for myself and having just a mere human who might look like he's got it all figured out you know use use his advice and so many things have helped because I mean I'll give Tony Robinson credit. He's been an incredible influence in my life <hes> but there's only he can only take you so far. He's not he's not there with you. Every single day in God is he's in. He's been reliable every single day and has like I find myself laughing out loud at times just being like here we go like I don't really know I'm GonNa do this right now. But I'm GonNa Trust you and here we go and then I do something like well. That was pretty cool and I did. I didn't realize I was capable of doing that and that kind of goes hand in hand with like that whole experience like I was experiencing what like what it's like to put all your confidence in something that is something bigger than yourself. That is so helpful because in your sport I mean you have if so many people evaluating you from the people in your organization evaluating waiting never removed that you're making people outside your organization so there's so many is on you that you have to find this place that you can go to inside for inner peace and inner inner an inner sanctuary Gary and fortunately you found God as the as the answer to that <hes> i WanNa talk a little bit we haven't talked. We've talked a lot about serenity our serenity peace contentment but we haven't talked a lot about improvement and I want to wrap up our show <hes> talking about improvement and <hes> as we already talked about improvement is also often based on how other people view oh you but in a healthy context. It's not how other people view it's. How can I add to my repertory of things that I'm peaceful about? How can I you know always work toward more sorts of things that I'm peaceful about? Would you agree with that. Yeah I think <hes> I think a good word that goes hand in hand with that. That's almost one of those <hes> paradox words or <hes> for peace is rush or hurry you can't you're not really going to be at peace or at ease or even content or satisfied if if you're feeling rushed or you're in a hurry and I think time is a huge thing that goes into overall peace inner peace in that's if you need to create if you need everybody needs needs personal time but nobody is willing to set aside time for that in the crazy thing is it takes no time like to have in this doesn't mean you have to meditate or journal or do a lot of these things that really really do work so then there's so many types of meditation journaling out there other than what you know if you haven't tried it that you just just start researching all these different ways in just try them and when one when when you hate one don't do it again and then you kinda like when try it again and before you know it. You're GonNa find something that that you really liked that works for you and then you have to make time for it. But what are we all do. We got work at Nine A._M.. We're up at eight shower. Eat you drive to work done with pat even thinking about anything without drinking. Nothing you wake up go to work. Go to launch. Go back to work. Get off work. Come home still have had no time for yourself now. Get your kids and your wife life waiting at home and you have to be you have to be dad and husband <hes> or whatever you're going to be and and you have to be there for them and then and then when you go to bed and you wake up and tomorrow's Tuesday and then Oh man finally at Saturday you're GonNa wake up when you're gonNA turn the football games on and what do you still have you created a whole list of to do's on Saturdays as well exactly but you have never given your self anytime to practice being at peace you have to you have to work everything. If you want to be good at something. We're all the only reason if if you're not feeling peaceful or joyous your it's because you haven't given it enough time to actually give have the chance to feel it. You don't just decide up. You know what I think. I'M GONNA be at peace today now. It doesn't work that way. Oh you got to practice it and it sucks Roy Dang this isn't this isn't working. Just keep going keep going you gotta give yourself on if you give yourself five ten minutes a day of you time like I'm just GonNa wake up ten minutes earlier in I'm going to go. Go for a ten minute walk. I'M GONNA make ten minutes earlier and I'm going to read a book and dismiss all thoughts of everything they have. You know what I one thing. That gets me out of bed in the morning is like I wanna go downstairs and have a Nice Cup of coffee in the a matter of time it takes for you to make a cup of coffee and drink it. I mean we're talking about what like twenty minutes thirty minutes. If you can create that where your time you can figure out something to do with a cup of coffee in your hand or something like that man that is that's not only is that a good habit but that's going to get rid of bad habits and replace them with the good habits and that's the beauty of a good habit. A good have isn't just a good habit. It's also replacing a bad habit so it's like it's a two for one yeah and and and and and it <hes> initiates the act of self improvement. Absolutely you know because you make it important to you. Now you make it a PRI-. We'd go you make it a priority. How can you call if you want self-improvement to be a priority but it's number ten year Trini leg number ten? You've got treated like number one or number two. If it's in your top three you gotta treat it that way gave you spent you can't be going home and playing video is video games in your top ten priorities if it's not stop treating it like it that's great I have one final question and then <hes> and then we will wrap this up and all I have to do is remember my final question. Oh and it has to do with you know as much as I like to talk about <hes> <hes> our charity that we both are very involved in wells of life. Tell me tell me that that is something you know you certainly seek improvement but you certainly find peace and serenity about it. Tell me about tell me about how that impacts your tension between peace and joy is there a sense in which contributing to the the resources and the operations of giving water to hundreds of thousands of people and saving tens of thousands of lives. How does that contribute to your peace and your improvement? I think it's a little bit more of <hes> I think that goes more into the improvement part the joyful part <hes> because it's a a because it never ends and you honestly you never even the it's it's the it's the big picture part that you never you never you're never going to achieve anything from it. There's not a a finish line with being a good person being positive influence impacting thousands of lives in Africa. We're impacting one life down the street in your neighborhood. There's no that's not a goal like a up all right. I've I've said I I've had five great interactions actions with a random. I did a random act of kindness for five random people this week. I'm going to go back to being a Dick. You're just like I'm going to that feels good because you just experienced something. That's bigger than yourself and that's not happiness that wasn't you didn't there was nothing happened to you to you. Be like wow that's awesome. I'm happy you made an impact on someone because of the way you chose to treat them and that's in and talk about and that that goes uh hand-in-hand with legacy to like how what stamp do you want to leave on this world like we're all here for a reason in some people. I just feel so lucky that I get to I get to impact people like thousands of people's lives everyday. I play baseball game in that gives me a nice perspective on life to understand that like it's not about me like going out. There and playing baseball is not about me doing anything it's about. I have an opportunity to be that influence and but everybody does just because you might not be thousands of people don't have to be watching you for you to make the difference that you were supposed to do with this day and or with your life and it's as easy as doing something kind for a random person on the street. It's as easy as you know. I mean donating a dollar to wells of life. You know like that dollar like a dollar is going to go somewhere and you don't have to. You don't have to build a whole well. You have to go to Uganda to do all this. That's that's why that's why you're here. That's why I'm here. That's why the the there's people that are there like all you have to do is put a little effort into making that one of your priorities and when you do you have that you have that feeling of of something that's bigger than yourself and that's what that joy. Isn't that sad thing. That's that that you'll it's something that it's not achievable. It's not like a eventually. I'm GONNA feel this way or I'm going to get there. No you can just do that right now and always have it because it's it's something that's it's up to you you are. I never use these words before orbit. You are an old so that you are you are mature for a twenty six year old to be thinking this way <hes> and and in wrapping our time up I really have in discussion with you. I really have have come to the conclusion that there is absolutely it is absolutely possible to be contented or peaceful and also have the joy of achieving goals in your life they they are not attention. They both fit together quite naturally that you can you can be satisfied but if you're satisfied and you stop and you don't try to do any kind of goals any kind of improvements are trying to do anything else. That's contributing to the world you fall flat. You're you're you're ugly. That peace will go away because you're not feeling your contributing. There is a there is a thing and a need in us to contribute butte and we could call personal improvement continue <hes> <hes> contributing and and you've made that really clear to me <hes> it's <hes> it's been wonderful talking to you <hes> so I I I can say Austin hedges. It was <hes> it was a blast to do the show with you today at always phone with my son and always funded here my son be so articulate and <hes> I'm delighted that you could find time in your hectic schedule to work it in yeah. I think <hes> it's just fun. I mean I know you <hes> I know how much fun and how much how much <hes> meaning you have in your life by doing these podcasts and blogs and all we gotta do is put gotTa pair of headphones on and a microphone and we just talk like we'd talk at the talk at Sushi tonight. Yeah exactly yeah talk about the same thing so this is easy. It's it's nothing to okay. I want to thank all our listeners for tuning right into the next chapter with Charlie and please be sure to check us out at our website the next chapter dot life and until next this is Charlie hedges signing off by for now hi it's Jamie Progressive's employee of the month two months in a row leave a message at the Hi Jamie. It's me Jamie. I just had a new idea for our song about the name your price tool so when it's like tell us what you want to pay hey hey hey and the trombone goes Wah Wah and you say we'll help you find coverage options to fit your budget. Then we just all do finger snaps while a choir goes savings coming at Ya savings coming out. Yes No. Maybe anyway see you practice tonight. I got new lyrics for the rap Break Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law here comes again lunch Lippi the same old same old or.

Austin hedges baseball Austin Charlie hedges McDonald Joy Charlie US Charlie Hey San Diego. padres Tim Ferriss John His younger age Uganda Jamie Progressive Ny Africa Richard Roth
#91 Dr. Anita: What Youre Really Good At

OC Talk Radio

46:29 min | 3 years ago

#91 Dr. Anita: What Youre Really Good At

"The Satellite Lounge presents evening with the progressive box. That's you go tickling the Ivories he just saved by bundling home and Auto Progressive GonNa finally by ring for that Gal of Yours Hugo sending my condolences this next one there's in my aw thank you progressive casualty. Insurance Company and affiliates discount's not available in all states or situations welcome. Everybody's time once again for the next chapter with Charlie hedges as he explores turning the page John His life and yours. Hey Charlie Hey Paul. It's nice to be here. You Talk Radio. Hello and welcome all our listens to the next chapter with Charleena's is where we dissect strategies and tactics used by successful people to make life changes necessary for their meaningful life and their meaningful next chapter and I learned from all of our guests and I hope my listeners to do because is it helps us decide what we're going to our next chapter not today. We have a really exciting guests because I'm very I'm very excited about the topic and as I've spent some time with Dr Anita our guest I have <hes> <hes> <music>. I'm looking forward to this show a lot so my guest is Dr Anita and I hope it pronounce your name correctly polite Wilson correct polite Wilson and she's affectionately known as Dr Anita and Dr Anita's served as an executive coach a workshop facilitator organizational development consultant helping people and teams raise their awareness and this is important and what will be talking about and leveraging individual strengths strengths to accelerate organizational performance with over twenty years of experience. She is a scholar practitioner with a deep knowledge. She refuses to call herself an expert. Now we had a long talk about the difference between Deep Knowledge College and expert but she has deep knowledge in Adult Learning coaching mentoring and implementation of organizational leadership initiatives aligned with the goals in exempt in an objectives of corporate government and nonprofit entities so with that. Let's bring on Dr Anita Dr Neto welcome to the next chapter with Charlie. Hello Charlie thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited well. I am excited too because you know you spoke talk to a group of <hes> high level businesswomen e level businesswoman at my wife's group that she runs and she's had for Gosh eight or nine years now called influential women which which is all executive executive women and she said you're meshing your message would be perfect for this. Show which makes me even more excited about talking to you and about how you attain success and using maybe a bit different methodology than we've focused on. I'm such a believer in lifelong learning and you talk about focusing on leveraging your personal strings and I put instead of focusing so much time on improving your non strengths and weaknesses which seems to be seems to be the habit of organization is let's take a look at what you're not good at and let's that's make you good at that when we could be focusing on an entirely different arena talk about that well I am a Gallup certified strengths coach and for those who are not familiar with that. There's a book called strengths binders two point. Oh and I discovered that in the late nineties early to thousands in literally changed my life when understood what my top-five strengths were but then when I really understood what my top two strengths were it made so much more sense and I think the biggest challenge that leaders have is because they're always looking at the deficit. What do I need to do to make things better? What do I need to do to get to the next level? Do I need to do the capture the next audience we seem to forget that that does not necessarily apply to people and that if we help people take what they're good at and build upon that we don't need to worry about about their opportunity areas I e weaknesses unless it's in the interpersonal development skills. That's my personal philosophy because if you're always focusing on what's wrong. How're you ever GonNa feel good about what's right yeah exactly and and and it's what you do right is what macy's successful and if you focus on on developing that area or leveraging as you said that area then you're going to be much more successful than spending all your time on some pity any little thing but I like what you said you said something? I'd never heard before you said you said those kinds of improvements may be good for organizations but they're not good for the people that's right and I think a lot of times leaders seem to forget that organizations are made up of people and to move the Organization for you must move people forward and to move people for you really need to focus on what they're already good at. I like to to present the concept of success partnerships for example if I need to put together a presentation for report and I'm not that good at the research but you are. I'm going to partner with you to help. We get the research done so that I can make the presentation. which is what I am good at? Here's the thing before I get started. I'm going to openly acknowledge and this presentation really really benefited from Charlie's expertise and his subject matter knowledge knowledge so let's give some appreciate into Charlie. What have I done right there number one? I've brought you into the forefront and actually made a whole new audience aware of what you can do and so now your expertise is out there as a leader sure. How cool is that to say? Wow someone acknowledged me in this audience and so now they know what I'm good at so. I don't feel beat up because I'm no good research but I have the good sense to partner with you and give credit for it is oh you do. That's perfect. That's that's amazing and your bill. You're building relationship with that person so if you happen to be coaching or mentoring that person it becomes more about that person than it does become about about you. Absolutely never relationship is certainly going to grow and the trust level between the two of you is going to increase incredibly absolutely and work gets down to relationships. We forget that yeah we're GonNa talk a bit about that and because I saw you know as I was reading through your materials that communication <hes> was was so important in work does get done with relationships and and so many so many <hes> you know I bring this up and and and I'm I'm an outlier in the twelfth step community in that they believe so much in Dan Program and it's the program that brings about sobriety or the end of drug abuse whatever it is and I'm all the time telling them that the program is very helpful. It's essential I mean it is so there's nothing wrong with the program and I and I'm a strong advocate of the program but what makes the differences relationship absolutely to Houma my accountable to whom can i. WHO CAN I go to if I'm struggling wrestling? Do I trust that person. That's what's going to bring about change of life. It's that is that relationship is going to bring about change of life. It's not well. I don't want to say it's not the program. The program helps the program definitely helps but if you only had program without relationship chip it would feel and I think in addition to that the most critical relationship that we miss the mark on is the relationship with ourselves. One of my tag lines <hes> for my facebook page is stabilised to keep it real. We are are blessed to be a blessing and less. We keep it real with ourselves. I we can't keep a real with other people analysts you keep a real then you really don't have a two relationship and so just being being real is huge real enough to say what's going on with me. Where's this coming from? How do I deal with it? I don't know how to deal with it. Where can I find someone to be a success partner for me to deal with it? Whatever that is? He likes success partner. You know I'm listening to a book right now. On <hes> I rarely listen to audio books especially if they're ten hours long but but I'm listening to this audio book called the Book of Freedom and the book doc talks about two different types of cells the small south and the divine self and the divine self does not mean you're you know you're seeing or and right right doing all this kind of stuff but the small self is built on ego which is built on the need for self esteem and the need for self importance and right along with what you're saying if we're focusing on that small self off and focusing and that's based on fair veras what causes us to need greater self esteem or greater self importance and if we can remove that fair and remove that we can we can be ourselves. We're free to be be. The kind of person you were talking about. That is knows yourself is comfortable with yourself and works in accord with that rather than what other people are expecting absolutely. I've heard this wonderful full little acronym for fear falls evidence appearing real and I think I think our president has something different podcast political. The widow were false evidence appearing real. It's a little word that's got a huge impact. In what causes fear is the unknown so I don't know what's going on regardless of the issue or the situation or the circumstances. There's going to be some fear involved in that when we can step back and again keep a real with ourselves so that we can be real with other people that eliminates the power that fear has over US false evidence. Appearing real is basically when we start making up story that I hear because we don't know what we don't know soon as we begin to get some knowledge some information some data points then that fair begins aside. You know you you said once again. You said a statement quickly that really needs to be. Focused on and I'm in the middle of of startups and and in the startup community that is such an important statement you don't know what you don't know and and it sounds like the sound of one handclapping at first but it's not you just do not aware of what you don't know and then when you learn these things you change your entire strategy and all of that seems to work really well together absolutely end just as important as your strengths are our understanding what your strengths are not and that's part of knowing what you don't know. I know I don't know this. That's not a strength. I need to find a success partner th really pretty simple. I think we make it harder than eastern. How would you mean by leveraging <hes> if you know the areas that you're strong in continue to focus on those areas that you're not strong in and again unless it's interpersonal skills because as we've already said were is done through relationships has not to say that we manipulate US people is to say when you have relationships with someone you're more likely to go out of your way for them and they're more likely to go out of their way for you so but when we talk about leveraging our strengths is this is important to know what we're not good at so the we've got the initiative if the goal fine that success partner that we need and therefore everyone has value everyone brings something to the table everyone does? I'm a firm believer in that yeah I I have seen that in all the teamwork that I have done. I mean works with teams that that even the most of the person the lowest regarded person really does have something to bring to the table or the person who really is seen as the biggest irritant on the team one of the examples that I use my talk to leaders. I say okay now now. Think about <hes> negative ned nobody ever wants negative net around but if you've got an important proposal that we're trying to get Paul to accept and I know it and and Dan we think between you and Charlie that we've got this proposal is just GonNa Knock Paul socks off <hes>. Do we want negative net to look at that. Yes we do. Here's why you and I already in group. Think we think is awesome but negative ned might see some things that will pause I was Gonna ask about this is gonNA ask about that. Did you think about the other in that case we can turn from an attitude of negative net. We don't want him on the team to ned brings value because he's going to see the things we hadn't thought about give us a chance to go think about it and presented more complete proposal to Paul which Paul is more likely to say yes to ten in addition. You brought net on your team. There you go. Everyone has value. That's right. That's right sometimes. GotTa dig a little deeper but everyone has value so tell me let's go back just a little bit <hes> I'm curious as business consultants and we always have choices on what we're going to focus our business on and <hes> <hes> and where we're going to market our primary of of deep expertise. I'M GONNA put a deep knowledge and how did you come up with an emphasis on personal strengths as your area of of deep knowledge because it's so resonated with me. I really believe that everyone is packaged with potential for purpose. I believe that and I also believe that everyone is gifted with something to shift them to new levels of success unless you unwrapped that gift and understand what it is you have no idea how much you're shortchanging yourself and because we are so conditioned to define success according to what other people think and believe we don't think in believed that we bring enough value to the table and that's just not true. That's just not true. Ears bring a different value than a nose but we're do. We compared weird what the air can do to what the nose can do. Why do we do that with people that it's so that it's so true? <hes> you talk about <hes> you talk about <hes> what what I recall the the art of self discovery and as a lifelong learner that statement certainly intrigues me. What do you have in mind? When you talk about self-discovery a myriad of things based based on my research? I created a self reflective learning model. It's called shift selfish says coenen investigate fix and team and I love assessments the simpler the better because an assessment is different from a test in that a test is right or wrong assessment is what it is once we discover what is then. What do we do with it? That's the honing in on it so based on the results. You know let's hone in and see what that means and then the investigating is taking a little deeper her <hes> fixing that's really about fixing our self perception so that we can fix ourselves talk and then teaming is going out and finding people that will help support our goals as far as moving forward talk about self perception. How am I going to change my myself? Perception is culturally ingrained. I mean I I've had this self perception since four years old and in many of it has not changed. How do I go about altering myself perception raising awareness and I know that sounds really simple but it's the truth I have recently dipped my toe into the world of diversity and inclusion and I'm <hes> have the privilege of <hes> working with a client in Las Vegas and one of the segments that we work on is called <HES> DOTS and we have an exercise where we'll name off certain aspects of someone's life and we'll ask you to put a dot represent the color of that type of person in your box and at the end a lot of people have just white dots because their world was primarily white or just black dots because the world was primarily black or what have you and throughout the exercise we realized is it when we're coming up? We don't use our parents. We don't pick where we go to school. We don't pick any of that but as we become eighteen and older then we have some choices and we realized that the person who we have become was shaped by factors we had no control troll over and there's no judgment that it is what it is but then once you're aware you can be intentional about moving forward differently and associated with different people in different ways of doing things the key is it shapes our behavior it shapes our thought patterns shapes our approach when we are aware of that we can arrest some things the fast brain says will based on types of people that I've worked within the past and this particular situation. You look like that. I'm GonNa make that assumption. That's that's where biases come in unconscious biases. The slow brain in this is by Daniel Konterman says you know what even though I've seen someone. That looks like you in. This looks like a similar situation. I'm going to be intentional about dealing with you on a case by case basis and let's have a different outcome so the message that I have is we raise awareness so that we can create new experiences for ourselves and others because you're absolutely right. The perspective that we have is the perspective that was baked into us when we were younger. We don't know any different unless we he's our awareness and you yourself told me you'll take a month long vacation not as a tourist to immerse yourself in culture to understand how other people think and be an an approach and that's all we're asking people do is raising awareness no judgment segment about the way you raised but now that you are aware you're also responsible to do some things differently. How do you encourage people who are stuck in their way of thought to begin to alter their perception? That's a really good question. You can't force people know and I'll be honest with you. The classes that I'm teaching people are required to be there and they come in with their arms crossed Stan not necessarily wanting to engage but by the end of class everyone has changed the room full of people that I see at eight A._M.. is a different roomful of people that I see at five P._M.. R._V. taken an assessment during that process. It's a slight assessment. They do a lot of journaling. We take them to a lot of exercises and ask them all right <hes>. How inclusive of a leader do you think you are? We'll take them through an exercise and the next question will be how will you lead differently based on what you felt in discovered and we usually start with debriefing feelings I because even though we're in a logical thinking world so to speak people weren't based on their feelings if I don't feel included if I don't feel valued you're not gonna get the best Outta me so we help people to I process those feelings so that they can understand if you're talking about being inclusive leader. You need to include everything about everyone. Psychological safety are people safe enough to show up and do their best without feeling like you're trying to turn them into someone that they're not Poi-. Safety is a big word <hes> I. I WANNA come back. I think I'm GONNA I think I'm GonNa Start with that. I WANNA come back after our break and we'll we'll talk a little bit more about safety because is I think it's a <hes> I think it's a roadblock to discovery and change so let's take a quick break. We'll come right back all right. Thanks uh uh-huh Titus Charlie hedges and you're listening to the next chapter with Charlie and I am here with Dr Anita Polite Wilson who is I want to say expert but she doesn't like the word expert she likes the word. She likes the Word D._D.. Knowledge she has knowledge that she has deep knowledge so I have to be careful pillow by using the word expert without getting a sly look from across the Dave don't like the word expert and it's it's because in my experience people who put themselves experts are not open to changing their frame and I absolutely am as a matter of fact when I go in and work with people I tell them I'm looking forward to learn as much as I share so that's my thing and and you know and I you explain that to me over lunch and I <hes> I'd. I'd which I didn't feed you so I'll be back. If you'll have me. I'll be back. I so agree. I saw agree with that that that one must be willing to. Due to evaluate critical critical places in belief systems and and C._N._N.. I've and I've I've adjusted my belief systems radically very radically I I I'm telling people don't believe anything I say today that because tomorrow probably change my mind and it's not that I'm being whimsical. It's that new data could arrive. That's irving. I could get new data that says boy. You know what you thought was true. There's some data that's that's challenging that thought and you need to consider it. You need to read up on it doesn't mean I just changed my mind because somebody throws me a data point but I will. I will take a look at it. It's right and and make some changes now. We were talking about safety <hes> psychological safe psychological safety and that's you oh on your maslow's chart. I believe that's number two on the maslow's chart I believe you know physical food and shelter and all that but I believe safety and security at believe you're right is number two on maslow's chart of hierarchy the of and and and if somebody doesn't feel safe in their change it's going to be very difficult for them to make that change well before they even begin the chains they need to feel safe in in recognizing and sharing what is <hes> remember. I like to <hes> define assessment as the results are would is not right or wrong. There's nothing right or wrong with people. It's what is now how or people showing up. How are people engaging? How are people interacting there are more productive behaviors and of course there are things that are right and wrong this way have sexual harassment training and things like that but when it comes to people how are made up there is no right or wrong? It's what is what do we do with what it is that we find yeah. That's perfect. That's perfect time. I'm I'm strange believer and there's not a whole lot of right or wrong but just is and you know there's I guess I prefer better best you know <hes> but but safety is is somebody has to be able to to compromise their safety or to let go a little bit of their safety to just walk into a new area. You know he said I like to go to other countries and learn about cultures. I mean I've changed my idea about culture and about about American American culture and it's not that I'm against American culture but I've come across so many different cultures in so many different ways of life that I've I've learned so much from it in it's and it's impacted my life personally. Eh a tremendous amount now now. I'm going to change topics a bit because what I wanna hear about is that you use an instrument called strength finders. Guess I love strengths finders. Tell me about strength finders because I'm I'm not sure all other people on our show strikes familiar with it is a tool that was created by the Gallup Organization. I think pretty much everyone familiar with Gallup do political polls and you know opinion surveys and things like that and <hes> strengths finders is an assessment that of thirty-four strength it will give you results in your top five strengths <hes> everyone has different combination of strengths <hes>. I believe the last statistic I read was that you know so many point billion people all do not have the same strength but if they did let's say you and I had had the same five strikes that would be in a different order but even if in the unlikely you know event that we have the same strings in the same order we use them. Differently and strengths really helped me as a young professional to figure out why didn't always fit into <hes> a box because I'm around pig not only that when I really understood you can be aware of your strengths but to really understand Dan. Your strengths takes your ability to be productive in a whole new level. My top strengths are maximize and influencers so I'll just ask you if you just think about those different strings they are they are I'm sorry maximize and <hes> later so if you think of the word maximize. Do you think that that's about me seems you will take a situation wherever it said and you will take it to the next level. That's right as it relates to people now if you think about the where relator what do you think that means about me I think that means you're good with people right in and and people are very important in your life and you make them important in your life absolutely if you take that top strength of maximize bringing out the best and relator later people being important <hes> a maximize your helps to people get exactly where they're trying to go and beyond where they thought they could go and relator bills deep relationships by helping people reach their goals says a facilitator as a personal development coach even as a cycle instructor those two top two strengths of maximize relator are consistent across my life. I don't care what I do and my personal mission is to influence everyone to discover develop and deploy their strength every day because I believe in it's so much when people can nail what they're good at. They can just build on that and be good at that across every area of their life we need to show up consistently whether it's for personal or professional endeavors and the strengths you can do that. Those are critical strikes for coach absolute or a mentor facilitator or or what was what was it turn that I that I that I there's a mentor and there's a a sponsor. Yes Yeah Dan just learning about sponsor sponsorship and and I think it's I think it's even more vital than than mentoring yes. Yes those are key key roles on a personal board of Director your coach your cheerleader your leader your sponsor your mentoring champion absolutely what could you got names deep knowledge so those are so those are perfect for a coach. I mean those are ideal though would make you you know that would make me want to say boy. I WanNa work with Dr Anita because she I get that she cares about me as an individual cares about my success and she can maximize my success and it's so genuine I gotta share the story with you. I was in Vegas with my client a few weeks ago and <hes> another company was there on some kind of <hes> corporate sponsored event and the gym was packed so I went downstairs still dark in the morning I was just trying to find safe route and I came across this young man who is ahead of miss it. Excuse me are you walk in running. He said I'm walking. I said well D- mind if I trail you. I don't WanNA interrupt your your private time. Can I want you know behind you. He said no come walk with me. We talked for an hour about strengths. I didn't know him. He didn't know me. He offered to buy me. A SMOOTHIE got back. You said you know I would you to be my coach. He lives in New Jersey a month later. We're coaching together because the authenticity of what I feel about people's potential is so real someone that I didn't know someone who lives in a whole nother state has been my client for the last three weeks. What what what are the challenges you face as a coach in in strengths really helping people to recognize it for what it is and so before I can really get into their strengths when I do the assessment with them? <hes> for instance there was this one young woman who's just phenomenally successful. Just she built a a mill multimillion dollar company soul her sharing it and went and bought a plane and ran a training institute. She's got <hes> a nonprofit she just phenomenal and when I was telling you about strength being an entrepreneur she's trying to save money so instead of buying a new book with the code food she buys a used book and look through strength and tries to pick her strength. I can you just humor me spend the twenty five bucks. Get the book so that you can take the actual assessment so the five that she chose for herself. Two of them were right on the money the other three. She didn't guess and she said You know I'm not sure about these three so and talking with her I said well. Let's look at this one. Don't you do X._Y._Z.. Yeah that's the strength. Let's look at this one. Why aren't you doing A._B._C. This way yeah? That's this drink so let's look at this swim. Why aren't you leveraging this? When you do these things here I am so now? Do you believe in your strength. She said Yeah I never thought about. I said that's because their strengths you use them all the time and that's the whole point of leveraging leveraging our strengths. It's who we are. Why on Earth would we try and do something different? That isn't who we are make ourselves miserable the process quite helpless to norris drinks because it helps us identify an emergent theme in our life our purpose I think I know that my purpose is really helping people be their best and again whether that's in the corporate board room or in a spin cycling class I can see the potential that people don't see themselves and can help nejd sometimes push them in that direction and when they discover it for themselves. It's life changing. It really is and I don't mean to be dramatic. It is life changing. Oh I I firmly believe that I I <hes> I took strength finders. You know when it first came out and <hes>. I wish I could remember what my my strengths were. <hes> you can take it again. I thought about doing it. I thought about taking it before. He came came on the show and I didn't. I just didn't get the book quickly enough to do it. <hes> but I'm I'm. I'm in the middle of you know at at sixty-nine. I'm a lifelong learner and I have I have a coach and we're working on a thing that the many of the listeners are familiar with and it's called archetypes and one of my archetypes of one of my in would come out in strength finders someway. I don't know the name but it's the leader. I don't know what what name would that come matters well strings fines has domains therefore domains there is executing relationship-building influencing strategic thinking so I would think that leader would either go under influencing or strategic thinking yeah and I just came back from Africa dot com and and I I made a <hes> an which my leadership capabilities really emerged in a very very strong way and and I have evaluated. Are you waited with my coach. You know what kind of leader I am that I very collegial yet not afraid to make a decision when decision has to be made but but I work with people so people don't feel like I'm coming in and dictatorial. There were working together unless I have to do something but just that knowledge doctrine needed just knowing that leadership was one of my strengths and seen other people. Bull respond such away really helped me be a better leader. I don't know how you know what it did but it helped me you know the being cognizant of the fact that leadership was a a strong aspect of my personality that are my talent list was very helpful not that you would need it but I would say to you or anyone. It's just another indicator of our self confidence when we know what we know what we know we can walk into any situation to be confident and it doesn't matter that I'm not showing up his Charlie hedges. I'm not Charlie hedges. My strength is Dr Anita his strengths this Charlie hedges together. We make a powerful team but I don't have to be intimidated by Charlie. 'cause I know who I am poor. That's brilliant. I really love that. Don't have to be intimidated by somebody else. Because that's not my strength that stairs MHM and we can is this leveraging we can work together and we can leverage that as a team absolutely and we can together we can produce an even better product and and I think and I think knowing it. I don't remember if we talked about it or the radio. We talked about it before but the book that I'm reading the talked about the small south to talk about that on era already I think so just a little bit <hes> but you know depending on on our are influenced by the need to be my self esteem needs myself important needs if I know I'm a leader in and I know I can do that. Well that diminishes miniatures that small south that diminishes that need for Eagle because I'm not doing it for ego. I'm just doing it because it's natural ability here. You go that your self actualization right there and I'm and I'm having fun doing absolutely and and doing it well and doing it in a relational manner I means other people are accepting of IT and other people appreciate above it. Nobody's feeling you know that I'm that I'm coming in and take over. That's right. I think there are two points that I wanna make about strengths number. One often times in the office folks have challenges with other people again because they don't understand their own greatness if I'm so busy looking at Charlie's greatness and Paul's greatness and what makes you too so awesome I can be intimidated by that but if I don't recognize my own greatness and what makes me awesome in my own right there's no way that I can ever feel like I can be partners with you that said I know that a lot of people have concerns about only focusing on your strengths Franks well. That's not to say that there there there is not room to grow when you're looking at your strength I had mentioned the four different domains <hes> strategic thinking influencing relationship building and executing when I have done this with teams oftentimes especially in the Aerospace Oh space industry which I just came out of a team would be very light in people with the influencing skill but that's okay if I ask you what's inherent in relationships. What would you say just a few things respect to loyalty <hes> inherent in relationships compatibility but but respect as big for me respect is a big word and and loyalty if we have respect and loyalty for one another we have a relationship it means we have influence with one another yes right so if you've got a team and your light in the domain of influencing but you've got folks that are strong in relationship building because influence is inherent in relationships you can leverage that into domain of influencing and so back to our early example if we need to present a proposal all too Paul but we don't have anyone who specifically strong in the influencing skills we can take someone who is relational who can bill that bridge and deliver that message to Paul in a different way but still have have the result of someone who's strong influencing the make sense and that is the other beauty of strengths? You can still grow and develop but it's going to be so much more comfortable in means so much more because you're doing it in an area that you're already strong in not an area that you struggling googling in what do you do with years. You're struggling in find somebody else seriously. You're laughing but I'm serious. I believe it. I love it so when I have not my job is not not my job and to meant to often managers. Try and make their people quote unquote. Well well rounded. No you're making them miserable so we if you and Paul were my team and you had something on your performance review for the last three years and he had something on here's performance review for the last three years it's been three years is not likely going to be addressed but as a manager that's aware of strengths I say well you know what Charlie Lemme give this Paul because he's actually good at that and Paul. Let me give this to Charlie because he's actually good at that. I'm the manager I can make those determinations. You're happier Paul's happier. Productivity is up engagement is up and everybody goes home. We need you coach him more manager. Hello Call Me <hes> I know we're we're growing near end of time and I've got a few more questions but I do want to <hes> I read this on your website and it intrigued me because we live in an age of virtual communication. We live in an age where one on one communication I mean you can see I think as you wrote you got five people at the table and everybody looking at their smartphone and and is not even a dialogue going on and you wrote in your website I quoting from your website. My research demonstrated that are people feel connected through joint dialogue either one on one or group interactions are more willing gene to embark on a path of joint discovery that full facilitates the revelation of deep patterns belief and perhaps actions but it's that people who have learned to communicate are more willing to embark on joint discovery ventures. What are we going to do about that in this in this generation you know? I don't know I will tell you that was born out of my research. <hes> research was around the success factors of young adult African American women and I got young women and season women together talking about was necessary to be successful in the workforce and I used a method call the world cafe which has never been news for Research Before One of my dissertation committee members told me and I'm very action oriented person <hes> we need to talk with just get it done. There's something to be said for conversation when I work with leaders. I asked them when you listen. Are you listening to solve or are you listening to understand and there's a huge difference because when we listen to understand we might find that we're not part of the solution other than to say Paul is a subject matter expert in and let me connect you with him and so it goes back to really listening. If we were just listen to each other I was working with another consultant in San Diego and he's got this wonderful activity about how to have a healthy disagreement disagreement say what you're going to say and before you respond actively listen or paraphrase with the person said find something to agree with and also and then state your point. How is that because I'm acknowledging what you said? There's something in there that I agree with and oh by the way here's how I feel. We just have to listen. That's do teach listening. I can well my husband might not thanks so yeah that is a that's a whole different subject and it is you know covey forty years ago listen with intend to understand rather than the intent tend to be understood and Saint Francis of Assisi seven four hundred years ago ever how many years ago said exactly the same thing that listening as really critical well we are reaching our time went so fast. I know it went so fast and I feel like we barely covered. What what I wanted to cover if I may I WANNA leave with one gem please do going back to Stephen Covey? One of the seven habits is <music> seek. I understand before being understood and I help leaders just used three pieces of that helped me understand it is revolutionary as far as teaming help says as the leader I can't do it by myself. Me Says as a leader owning nece and understand says you as the person that either I support or I lead you probably have information that I need how empowering is that for folks folks for their leader to need them for their leader to admit they don't have all the answers and for their leader to be authentic intransparent insecure enough to say that if leaders were to use those three words help me understand it would revolutionize the dynamics on their team and that that's what I like to leave folks with. I love that help me understand understand how me help me understand this and you giving credibility to the people you're strengthening your team. Your strengthening that individual and you are actually learning in the process and you're proving you're a good leader. That's right three simple worries about as powerful as I love you yeah. That's great yeah. Well Dr Anita thank you so much would be my guest is today in my pleasure and I have something for you. I always love to coach Mentor folks in one of the Young Ladies That I've been coaching and mentoring for a while she just opened a new business. It's called Sugar Mama sweets and you're gonNA love that that is for you and Pam so Japan. You're listening. Make sure Charlie shares golden box with the red ribbon on it for you. Yes I have a golden box with the red ribbon that I'm not allowed to my Lonzo may open it so I'm opening a box while we're <hes> that has sugar Mama <hes> sugarman sweets. Yes yeah just as I'm on a diet. That's <hes> that's perfect. I don't pay attention to anyway we shouldn't they don't count between now and the end of the that's right on the end of the year. Well thank you again for coming on the show. It's been wonderful. Thank you ever tation is been an honor and a treat. It really has been great. Thank you and I wanNA thank all our listeners for tuning into the next chapter with Charlie and be sure to check us out at on our website <hes> the next chapter dot life l._i._f._F._e.. And until next this is Charlie and hedges signing off by for now.

Titus Charlie hedges Dr Anita partner Paul Charlie hedges Gallup Organization Dr Anita Polite Wilson Dr Anita Dr Neto Dan Deep Knowledge College macy wrestling Charleena executive facebook John His US Stephen Covey New Jersey
From the Archives Jenn Bork: "Feeling" Fully Alive

OC Talk Radio

57:56 min | 6 months ago

From the Archives Jenn Bork: "Feeling" Fully Alive

"Welcome everybody's time. Once again for the next chapter with charlie hedges as he explores turning the page on his life and yours. Hey charlie your paul. what's up man. We're proud to have you back in the studio is were. I know we are here back in students stay on the other side of the studio. They're six feet apart. Yeah you're you're one of those and it's been you know. I think it's been close to three months that we've been in this kind of quarantine. We had to open up the cobwebs. We had to clean them all october. That we've been continuing doing your show but we've all been doing it on zoom or virtually or whatever so i i'm i'm the first one to To do to do verbal spray into the mike nuts right ramp to spray it with lysol. When you're done. I'm just don't spray me okay. But you know just where everybody we are honoring social distancing and and we were in masks until we are on the podcast but then we're facing opposite directions so he can't breathe into me and i can't breathe into him and and i promise we will do no kissing kissing today so I believe we both feel as secure as possible in these in these times and We shall see today today. Paul i really look forward to the show. Not not so much because of fascinating content is often i get into content but more because of our fascinating guests my my dear dear and brilliant friend jennifer board now. Jen comes to us with. Check this out with no sort of breathtaking resume. She's author no books. No blog no podcast. No business places that. Put her atop the social so-called social status scale which most americans secretively strive instead jennifer his wife. John mother of two amazing children august and is a test. Or tessa jenner. Gen- tessa okay. She does have one credential though that you didn't call out here that that that trumps hate to use the word trump's me coffee but i never use that word but trump's everything she's in ann arbor michigan. You don't have to college. He's an ace squared. Baby sit a score and arbor michigan. Well i still know her as an orange county. And and and i have no idea what she says she had a power shortage and she may lose power that they are the weather there would happen. I don't even know what that means. It means if you're in michigan and you don't like the weather wait and our because it will change. Dramatically could be snowing and then sunny i mean it could be a hurt could be thunderstorms and then Hail i could be anything buddy. I'm glad it's you and on me i. I like the predictable weather. Now but jennifer is also now. You have to see her on facebook to for this to make any sense. But she is a facebook makeup guru She's a gym in boxing. Fanatic it fanatic fanatic and but mostly jennifer is a woman with as much practical wisdom as anyone i have ever known jennifer and i worked very closely together in the late nineties and early. Two thousands is that right to my dates right jen. I think that's about right. It seems like it wasn't that long ago. But that is a lifetime adele yet. It is and and jennifer was the executive director of my company She but but her real job was My creative muse. Apart from my wife. I don't think gets me. That really understands me like jennifer. She understands my personal strengths. The one or two that. I have as well as my core pathologies. That drive three quarters of what i do think so today. Jennifer have jennifer. I plan we're going to have somewhat of a rambling conversation of catching up. But then we are going to talk about some serious topics But we really haven't chatted except for once briefly in nearly a decade and so the we will be brainstorming today. The meaning of life like we can do that in thirty minutes and But that's for just for average for everyday people like us not for your highfalutin thinkers and We most likely will slip into a discussion of the impacts and learnings of the past month of months of quarantine and what it may look like in the future. So jen bork. Welcome to the next chapter with me. That was i. i can't say thank you enough. I am so honored that my friend reached out across the country across time and across his face mask to reach out to me As your listeners probably already know from the time that they've spent listening to you and how they imagined that you are. This is how you are. This is not an act Charlie is this smart. He is fun he is also you might not know. Charlie is a little bit crazier in person. But i don't mean crazy in a way that a scary. I mean crazy in a way that like you cannot wait to just buckle in and go on a ride with them jennifer weekend just Thank you for joining us on the podcast That was that was all the needs to be said for the whole podcast was it was done. So let's do a little bit. Because i think it will be interesting to our audience because you do have an interesting an interesting sort of lifestyle and that your husband. John is a veteran of Somalia afghanistan he was a helicopter pilot. He's a colonel in the marines. And he's now a commercial pilot for delta. Is that correct correct. Yeah he's flying out of detroit and he's an engineer he and he's i wrote it and i i didn't know how to phrase this correctly. A home designed furniture. Creative warped mind guy. A heck of a kisser heck of a cancer that never makes it on any of his resumes but yes. That is on his list of challenges. Well that can't hurt that you know that. That can't hurt in marriage. You know rarely not rarely. I have never heard a wife comment about her husband's kissing forte. So that i'm not gonna. Unfortunately i'm not going to check it out. I'm not going to get to see what this is like. I will take your word for it. Let me see if i had this in my notes. I don't tell me you know what i want to know about. Because i probably have it somewhere but i wanna i wanna start with this. Your makeup guru. Thing is so fun. Jennifer i mean i i i actually watched them for ten or fifteen minutes for you to convert yourself from and it is so fun you know. You're just flat gorgeous. And and and we you're gorgeous with no makeup then put makeup on and you know you're a model. I mean it's It's amazing it's amazing. What you do with this. Is that little business. Do well for you. You know it does it. It's one of those things that i just have like this weird little niche where I can put into words. How all these mysterious. Smoke and mirrors things actually work. It's very difficult when you walk into a big giant beauty store to try and understand how it all works. You just need. Everybody just needs someone to sit you down and show you how it all works and so i decided instead of that. Why don't i just go on facebook where there are tons of people you know my social media sites and just talk to people. I talked to my friends and i. It's amazing it's so much fun people really like it. You have a great following man. I see all the comments that come from your following and yeah the really good following and it sounds like you really. You really do believe in your product. Yeah i talk about things that i don't like so yeah i i make sure that i only would tell you anyone to buy something that i would tell my friend that i see every day that would come back and say i hate this so i don't sell products that people wouldn't like and i like to endorse people that make great stuff. Yeah you're kind that's just out of the goodness of your heart. You know i. I've talked to my wife and said i I am so glad. I am not a woman i cannot believe first of all i cannot believe the time spent in the morning putting this shit on and then you spend at least a quarter of that time taking it off at night right. Well we try not to call our products shit. Oh that's a man's point man likes likes the end product but just listening to what has to go on that all this stuff and his hair blower and his dry or and then as quiet and then as putting on this stuff. It's oh my goodness ak- science experiment every day. Now now is this really a united states phenomenon is it a western world. And i'm feeling is probably more united states and canada than than anything else. What do you think. Oh i would i know i mean you look at the asian countries and you look at mexico and you start looking at brazil and you start looking over there. It's it's so big. I don't to see some woman thing because there's also a lot of men that spent a lot of time getting themselves that will go into skin and hair care products and even colors and make up. But it's a people thing. Amazing amazing. I did not know it was worldwide. You know but it does. It does make sense. You know will largely because of the advertising in america but then as soon as they see that and it just it resonates with the course so much. Why it's important but it is. It's a fun little thing you know we will announce it at the end. But but what is. I know you don't call it a url. What do you call it on facebook. Hashtag i you know what i just our pages i think should our page to page. And so they. What do they look up to find. You took my name. Is jennifer work. They do look jennifer. Because i saw you change your name to gin. So oh yeah. That's just because ginsburg is such a mouthful and sick here in it so many syllables. I'm so used to call you jennifer jay. I'll i'll read the listeners. Know i may. I may say jay because i called you. Jay my life but so they just look up jennifer bork. While you're you're page on facebook and then follow you and just be prepared to have the most simple things. i mean. you do things that women's spend you know half hour or more doing and you do it you say. Hey we can name this tune in ten minutes and a half an hour on it. It's like my whole face. it's is it's eyelashes eyebrows lipstick. I mean it's this this whole routine in like ten minutes. I almost want to do it just fit. I know all the names. I'm impressed with names like you know mascara and you know is lives in my just called the face crap My my husband's Wife is He has passed the classes as an aestheticians. Is that what you call them. And she's Cheap focuses on eyelashes. Which is completely the you know. You can't do anything now with eyelashes. But that's what she wants to focus her attention on this island is it oh so much money in eyelashes yes okay. Let's go into that. Was fun and more heavens. so let's go. let's go in this. Go into the you know As tim as houston say Let's go down deep and stay down long haul right. So we'll we'll talk about philosophy of life because really i mean jennifer you were so instrumental in the products that we produce and we we produced one product that i won't even say the name of but it did sell a million dollars worth of product. Which is you don't you know. That's that's not a bad product. It sells not. It's not like either you. Or i got in anywhere near a million dollars out of it you know. We're trying to scrape out a living to go soup plantation. But um sushi come on. We got see she does she she. And i'm i'm still a sushi fanatic are you. It's hard to find here but i go to eyeball drive all the way detroit. Yep not today. you won't know we're not today not for a couple of months. But i'm going back so so you you brought up an idea when i was when we were texting. You know what we might do on the podcast. You grow up to that. I'm really interested in and you said you wanted to chat about the meaning of life in relationship from the perspective of doing versus being that we are not. We are not what we do. We are what we be or something so can can you explain your distinctive to me. So i started So once my kids were sent home from school. And once i was home and everything was shut down My kids were kind of stumbling around each other in the house and thinking what am i supposed to do and i had a lot of friends call and say what do we do. I don't know what to do with my kids. I don't know what to do with my time. And i was realizing that my whole life if we could back up if we could all try and remember what it was like before we had ever heard of kobe the one thing we always would say well when i get time i'm gonna when i get time when i get time and we all free thing that right charlie because we never get it so you can say whatever you want like you know when when time. I'm gonna learn to speak spanish. If i only had two months to do nothing else. I would learn spanish. Well okay then you get your two months. You get your gift. If you're tumor and and you before you can actually sit down and learn spanish. You have to learn how it is to be new. And i think that all of us in the faith real quick and real hard because we think what we are what we be is actually all of the busy net and all of the tasks and all of the things we have to do every day. We think that's who we are. But it's not your who you are you sit down for the first time. A lot of us with who. You are wins. There is no other option. And i know for me. That was startling. I wasn't as clever as cute as i thought i was. Nothing else going on. And it wasn't even i. I don't know about you charlie. Find it you probably. I don't know you're such a great introverted person. You probably enjoyed a lot of it but it was a little scary at first for me to let go save for me that As an introvert. I've been practicing for this corentin my whole life right. Yeah yeah that was just. It was just a time to do what i what i've been wanting to do. And so i was able to fall right into it. So i i didn't face up but you know what you're saying does make sense and and i think a lot of people would probably a have trouble saying what they do is what they are yet. That is the truth because we are such doers. And we have you know like what i face this morning. Face this morning for this podcast. You know. I'd i'd had time to do you know i had scheduled to do my morning. Ritual and and relax and ponder. And i just got hit with the tyranny of the urgent this morning. I mean i've got phone calls that i had to respond to these. Were things that were and it just reminded me. This is what life is going to go back to life is. It's it's just going to go back to this bullshit and not that. This is who i am that i that i take that i'd take some kind of Assumed some kind of position. That that what i'm doing is who i am. I don't look at that philosophically yet. The reality of it is that is the truth right. that is the truth. The truth is what. I what i am what i am. Well always what you do reflects who you are. I mean there is a reflection of of you in that but there you know we need time you know. I think being calls for me being called for a sense of reflection. What do you think a sense of reflection and pondering on what is important to me what is important in life and what kind of what kinds of choices my do i choose to make right right and you know charlie. You're so right because you say you know for big for me. And to take the time to ponder it while a lot of the times we don't give ourselves time to think about what anything is for us. How does that look for me. Because we're thinking how does this. How is this even just a wise use of my time. You know i've got. I've got fourteen things to do today. I don't have time to sit around and think how exceed me. I just have to think about getting everyone else said i. I guess you look at it that way. What is the alternative j. I mean what what. What's you know these things come upon us and we are just we feel obliged to follow this pattern and yet it is. It is a very american pattern. You know. I don't. I don't live in europe and i don't live in mexico and live in brazil so i don't know i know a bit about their culture having visited and i understand some distinctions in culture but i i can only think is an american and and this is a very american way of thinking and it's It's capitalism i was talking to yesterday to a person and i've sat on a on a on a podcast several times that capitalism as evolved from an economic system to a lifestyle system is a system of consumer is and it's a consistent and it's and it's a system of of acquisitions and and gathering stuff and it's not it has no room for it. Maria papova. I don't think i can do this quote well but she said consumerism stole from us our meaning in life and is now selling it back at the price of product. Oh man what is an. Yes is beautiful. Yeah she's she's a brilliant young woman so so do you think it certainly seems like it's got to be more than reflection That we have to make some choices to slow down and stop and say what truly is essential. And what is not essential. Yeah you know. Charlie what i what i've been doing already is as Things start to get. I've had so many invitations. People are desperate for funds and contact and and lunches and dinners and drinks and you so many things. There's i've had to pace myself and just say no not not. I'm sorry i've got this instead. My schedule is full. Just say no. And freeing little phrase that is where she been all my life so nice to be able to say when someone says. Oh we miss you so much and we just need to get together. We need to have some drinks. We need to get on the deck in. We have baseball then after baseball. We you to come over and say oh. That sounds wonderful. But i just know. Yeah you know what i heard it was. It was really helpful. I just listen to a podcast with tim. Ferriss and Elizabeth gilbert you know. Eat love pray or eat. Pray love whatever i. I can't remember the the order of them and they were talking about saying no and They brought up that. That one thing that i have learned i bet a decade ago i learned. I don't have to give anybody. I don't owe anyone any reason for no crack. I don't because all i'm doing is engaging them in to an argument of why i'm wrong. Oh well for this is just for a couple of hours. Or it's just as and they also said and i've never heard this was the new thing for me. You don't say i get it. But no it's i get it and no right that power of and i i get it make sense and no. I can't be there. You know the button. No sort of gives him permission to why give their idea. This way. you're you're you're you're just taking away all ammunition from them. It's none of their damn business. Why i don't wanna go. You know what. I don't wanna go because i i really don't like being with you for that long of a time that that i don't like being with you and no so don't ask again That is that is good. Yeah you know i i. There's so many things. I talk about so much on a podcast that i i feel like i. I repeat myself but i. I think we might have talked last time. I have a morning ritual. That used to be ninety minutes and is now approaching three hours. Where i meditate. I meditate in the morning. I started about somewhere between six and seven and i meditate for about thirty minutes and then i will do some sort of inspirational reading and right. Now i'm reading the mystics and contemporary of prayers. I'm reading centuries of avalon. Saint john of the cross and thomas merton and so they're they're the rather profound readings and then i journal for an hour. Do you know how many words i journaled in. May i journaled. Eighteen thousand words no. I'm not surprised yeah. Eighteen thousand words you in three months journal words. That's a short novel. That's one hundred seventy five pages. And so i am pondering things you know. So i'm really and and i am making it. That do not make an appointment. I will make no appointment before Ten or eleven in the morning just will not happen. Because i don't read newspapers before. I don't read anything. No read enemy emails. Nothing i want. None of that on my mind as i'm going into meditation and where you know trying to dispel thoughts and so why don't i read the newspaper before i meditate like like. That's gonna work you know but I'm hoping i can keep it up. I i don't know. I i have a. I have a couple of advantages in that I don't have to work. I have you know it's not like i don't work. you know. i probably work. Twenty five to thirty hours a week doing things but i i i don't have to. I'm retired and i can take those early mornings. I can't tell people it's my morning ritual. You know i don't i don't even think about talking to me then. Don't even think about calling the phones on mute. You know i'm not going to do it. So i i'm not in your situation that you know i don't have an eighteen year old and a fourteen year old is that right You know. I mean or or a five year old and a two year old. Well that makes that makes life quite a bit different. You have to get up at three o'clock in the morning to find time but sometime we do. We do need to consider that i. I think that's true. You know something. Else i want. I want your opinion on. I'm watching a nineteen eighty eight. pbs special. it's on. The power of myth and many people will be familiar with it. It's joseph campbell. And joe and bill moyers and it is. It is so good. And i wanna tell you. Put your brain on and you're gonna watch it because you know it is not for the the light hearted And early in the series. The mythologised historian joseph cambell. He claims this jennifer that people are not searching for the meaning of life. They're searching for feeling. I put that in quotes ceiling fully alive. Not just mean being fully alive as a trite statement. I don't know what the hell that means right now but feeling fully alive. I get what that means. That means absorbing incorporating what what are your thoughts on that well that that's the now having A teenager who has got one foot in being a kid in one foot in the adult world I see that actualising. Every day. And while i can't see it happening myself. I know it is happening as well. We want to feel know for me this time this this unique gas. We've been given. I'm gonna go out. I'm going to be one of those corny. You know painting but people until you visit the disc this time. It's let me feel all the things all of those things. I don't like feeling bad things. I don't like feeling unprepared. I don't like feeling like i showed up to the test and i haven't studied And some days. There's not anything you can study for the test. The day worked present for you and feeling all of those things i think in navigating and working through all of these things i think kelly a feature your soul give you fire. It gives you experience and failing and falling down and then getting back up gives you courage and i think that's it's taken me. This forced time to be able to allow myself to feel all these things and to see. Holy crap i. I have all in me already. This is already here. you know i. I'm a fully developed person. I don't need time to figure myself out. I just need to get out of my way a little bit. Maybe every day like you're saying your morning and just feel what i already have. It is not pretty days but it's so valuable poet jennifer you really hitting something that i believe strongly. I believe less in discovery in more in recognition that in our souls we are dna to understand wisdom and joy of life in asia. Asia devere We are dna for that. We are delayed for god. We are dna for wisdom. And it's already in there. I believe that creation that was already in there but due to the crap of the world it's been hidden and so what we do is that we don't discover wisdom and new things we recognize it. We recognize it for the truth. That had already is already inside of us. And that's why we go. Oh you know it's not like you know. Great wisdom is like. Oh i never thought of that. It's like i've always thought of that. But i've just never been able to put it into words. That's exactly it yes. I think turley also. Don't you think that like little kids like if you ever get a chance to sit down with little kids. They are profoundly wise in the way they see the world. Ns because of one little thing. I've been twain with lately. Is the only answer. The exact question that is asked. If they're asking a question someone is asking them. The world is asking. They only answer that one question. I think that is like true wisdom instead of we do so much prepping inside of our head of how we're going to answer every question and what it means and how it reflects on us and what the person wants to hear instead of just saying good answering the specific question with specific concise words. I think that's free. And i. I think that's i think that's a lot of wisdom in that. I have never ever thought of that. How many how many Sort of preambles will. I have to protect the position or answer the question that you want me to her before i answer the question i want. I wanna make sure. I'm understood or that i'm not disregarded that clarify before i answer then. He let me clarify. Because i know you're not going to understand rather than just put it out genius. I it is because you're you're really not bright enough to catch what i'm saying That is so that so insightful. I had an. I had. I had written down in my notes. A couple of things. And i. I think they're probably a bit too weighty although i i wanna get into them just a little bit because i think they show. Oh my my producer you know i. I'm kind of going to a no. I'm gonna do this. we're going to have doing. We're going to have a break after this. He must have a break. But but but i wanna do this. Because i i want i want to change subjects and that is a difference you know what is your your basic philosophy of life is is is life a duty or a pleasure and i think the answer is yes. It's both i you know i. I just read viktor frankl. They just came out with the english translation of of victor translate. You know Wrote wrote man's search for meaning. That is yeah. That's hugely successful. And he wrote it months after coming out of the concentration camp in germany college and then he's got he's got a series that is just now just like this year published in an english that was written in nineteen forty-six and it's called yes to life. Oh hey and and franko got me thinking about about aspects of life and and there are two philosophies that are ancient philosophies come from the from five hundred. bci believe in from epicurious and from the stokes of which of which later writers you know. Marcus aurelius and seneca wrote. And you know the stoic. Six the stokes take a look at life on accepting life on life's terms and dealing with it with Sound rationale and acceptance. You just accept what is deal with it. Rationally understand your core live. According to your core according to who you are that is sort of the essence of life er occurs you know really has been bastardized in our century because epa korean thought is not about getting drunk and screwing you know. That's that's just that's really you know. That's what has taken now that that's the definition but epicurious was quite simply about a lot of people said that said that it was a pursuit of pleasure in life but really what it is is pursuing flourishing in life and. I'm really i really i. I like stoicism system a lot. I mean i i. There's a lot of my practical practical life that is from the store. But i'd i'd lean toward epa curse. I don't you think that living you know. That's like feeling fully alive. Living a flourishing life You know are flourishing in life I think that is to me. That words flourishing that sounds. It doesn't sound insurmountable or daunting. It sounds like a relief. Don't we all want that. Don't we all just want to be in our happy place doing the things that we are we love to do and that we love to share with other people and make them happy you in some way i think that young. And that's you know and that brings in bringing the things that we were talking about the worry. The worry of the tyranny of the urgent there are some there are some things that are the tyranny of the urgent that are you know Urgent and unimportant but there are urgent and important things. in covey's you know covey's quadrants Who made up this this tyranny of the urgent. I think he was the first one early to write about it. There are things that are urgent and important. And and it's important to do those but we get caught up so daily in the urgent and unimportant. Right right yeah. Those little paschi things that preoccupy the eat up all your time. That are very sticky. The stick to each other and they snowball and you end up Going in the wrong direction not in the wrong direction but going in a different direction from the things that do bring you that feeling of this is. This is why i got up today. Did you away from that until you forget that you had a reason in the first place and that you have a choice event actually have a choice. You don't have to do this. You can as you said you can say no and it could just be for the reason. You don't want to do it okay. Let's take a quick break and then we're going to come back on another subject. charlie hedges. You're listening to the next chapter. With charlie and i have my one of my all time dearest friends and most respected wise friends jennifer bork. Who worked with me for a decade and was my muse for writing creating products creating life philosophy and she is doing it once again today. And we've been talking about the meaning of life like you know no one ever talks about the meaning of life but I i think gen had some really great insights. And we're going to. We're going to make a a subject change and we're going to talk about quarantine and post quarantine in what jennifer so aptly named. Do you wanna talk about the apocalyptic shit show that we are living today and i think i think there is so much to that that we are. We are facing right now in the united states. Probably the greatest unknown that we've ever faced. We have no idea you know. The stock market is high today. And i'm talking to my wealth adviser wondering about completely getting out of the stock market. Because i i know stuff is going to happen and and it has potentially longer lasting impacts. I'm i'm wondering if it all went away today. Would it have any impact at all. What are what are your thoughts. On the s on the apocalyptic shit show the thing first of all. I'm so glad that you kept my title. I love it but my thoughts are are as follows I don't i'm. I'm a shock that it took something of this magnitude in order for so many of us to realize that we all live in houses and not homes and we've created houses of our own doing our own making our own design instead of the homes that we may be drained about having like when you're a child dream about the kind of home you're gonna how you're going to grow up in lisbon how it's going to be wonderful and whatever fairy tale or story written for yourself in on the new look now your self. A new haven't built that and i'm grateful for the quarantine for showing me my shortcomings. I'm grateful for all of this for. I'm grateful for that. Yada yada all that crap said. I hope we don't go back to this. Chapter is over moving onto the next and just pick up exactly where we were. I hope that for me. I'm trying to look at as the life. I knew before died during the quarantine. Everything that i knew kind of died and i don't mean joy and fun and all of that i just mean the way that i was living life died and now i'm this new person that's coming out and i'm going to be a lot more careful with how i still my time and how i feel my mind and my space and where i share my energy because it is precious. And now you know. I'm fifty so i'm looking at the life. Pre quarantine was all of my you and now post quarantine. What do i wanna take. That i learned from into that i i. I'm ready to step into the shit storm. Which will continue in one way or another. But i want to be smarter about it. I want to take with that with me. Only the things that serve me. And not you know my albatross around my neck. I just wanted to cut that guy off and move forward a little bit later. He that makes perfect sense. Can you can you. Can you give me an idea of what that might look like right. I think that. I i you know i had spent a lot of my life. And i'm sure a lot of people can relate to this. Is i have ideas of what i want for me but i also want to make sure that around me gets whatever they need for me so that i can feel like i am Important class why not important but like that. I needed that. I'm hoping that that. I'm you know. And i have this almost like a compulsion to want to make sure that everyone feels like they're getting from me something they can only get from me. I realize what i'm getting. I'm not giving them what they need. I'm giving away part of me. And i you know so. That's one thing that i'm looking forward to. Maybe measuring out a little bit more different now a little bit more Judiciously as opposed to just ladling. It across everyone i can pick you know how i i spend all of that energy because you only get so much like i said you know. I'm i'm not twenty anymore. I don't have all days worth of energy anymore. Wait till you're seventy. Oh yeah. I'm hoping i have more than than i thought i mean man. I didn't think i'd have what i have now. I certainly didn't it. Seventy i'd i'd i don't feel seventy well. You never seem charlie. I've known you a long time and you've never seen the number. That is attached to your name when i think that is your because of your soul. I think we all barring any huge medical issues. That may come up in your life. We're kind of old as we decide we are. That's true so you can you. Can you name anything defined defined for me. One thing you think you would do differently. I you know. I i believe in the philosophy and the idea i i. I'm re rioting line with you. What might be some something tangible. You could recommend that or not not recommend forget. Recommend something for you that you think would really benefit you. This is what i'd done for number one is i. Don't wake up in the morning. With i turn my phone. I wake up in the morning. I check the weather outside on my phone because you know. I don't want to sit all the way up and look out the window. Apparently look i don't use my phone for anything else for hours. I don't if you call me during the night if you catch me during the night if you sent me a message during the night That is all going to stay in. My phone is not going away. But i'm not gonna look at it. Answer it or give it any response at all until i felt like you were saying with your morning ritual. I have my morning rituals. Which is our h- how i take care of myself. All of that comes first. And i'm real good that sometimes and then other times i feel like i need to check the phone and help people before. And there's one thing that i'm doing now is i don't even like i don't look at it at all and that's been very freeing. You feel really good. It feels almost like. I've given myself a little present every day that i have this time. Just for me. that's Did you know how just that by itself how how important would be for people but at at at the same time we have no education in that no one has taught us to. No one has taught us thinking. I i read a book. have you heard of Eleni buttons book the school of life in his his schools of life in europe. I'm writing down. This book is on emotions. He says we are emotional. Creatures and that we have the emotions of cavemen and picks with the intellectual wherewithal of thermonuclear warfare. Wow and and his whole school. The as is like five schools in europe and they are classes. You know you don't get degrees or anything but they're just classes in. It's all on emotions. It's all it is on emotions. I read this book on emotions. I thought i understood emotions. It was brilliant jennifer and and there is. He is teaching us to think the way you're talking about. He's teaching us to think differently. He says you know we have a way of Millions of years or hundreds of thousands of years or have you want to do the calculation of evolution that has taken us so far emotionally and intellectually. You know we really. Have you know you have the intellectuals of you know the cards and pascal. And you know you know whoever you want to say but but mostly it didn't happen until the industrial revolution and then in the age of enlightenment that we started using logic and analysis and we started thinking that way so this is a whole new thought in the evolution of human beings. This is a whole a whole new process. And we're running our lives where this new process that we really don't understand when our souls understand the motive and the i don't want to call it irrational. Because i think it's rational but it's just coming from a whole different perspective. It's coming from you if you believe in hemispheric brain thought it's coming from the right brain not from the left brain right right does that. Does that seem to resonate with you. That we just. We don't know how to do this. Well right because we have have been taught the the personal pursuit of whatever it is if it's If it's money if it's career is spouse whatever the whatever you're you're actively pursuing on takes precedence over understanding why you know we don't even ask ourselves why are we pursuing these things and But that's the only important question out there is. Why do you need to pursue whatever it. Is you read the books on wider that. Just come from your gut no came out. What is it now. It's like the topic of the day. The uae precedes the how. And the what if you don't know know you're why and i can't think of the author but it's no you're y y okay. Yeah but i always write down when you talk to me. Charlie always writing. But but this is but this is is is exactly. What you're talking about is that we must know the why and frankel talks about that in this in these letters Yes to life. The total title of the book is yes to life in spite of everything It's it's really quite quite real well written and and that the why is very important and that we we know our why and and our why gives us our yeses. Our nose gives us our strategies are what we're going to do with life who were going to love how we're going to love. Why is so important. And i i think you nailed it insane. That and that once again appeals to your wisdom that you don't have to read people like i do you. Just get it. i think. I think it's just true. I think that's why it's just desperate universal. You know overarching truth. We all understand on some level whether we thought about it or not. I mean that that is all that matters. i think it's a good way to decision-making once you know why everything in your life then. Every opportunity doesn't serve that y if it does then so yes if it doesn't say no. Yeah yeah. i talked last week to Did you remember toro's to do. Remember him the he was. He was the children's minister at south coast. Yes yes he was a good friend and we were talking about making decisions based on intuition couple of weeks ago three weeks ago. That subject came up. I i want to close with this question here. Because i have a. I have a fear and my gut says unless we a radical resurgence of the virus. That somehow you know takes us away from going back to restaurants because we can we you know. There are a handful of restaurants that we can go into. I don't know about you but but we can go into restaurants and and that that with this even though it was three months That's just a blip. In time. And i just have this fear that things are going to go back to the old ways in no time and in doing so. We'll lose the incredible art and learnings of reflection and pondering the essential things in life and before we know it we're going to be consumed with the tyranny of the urgent and let it resumed control. Do have that fear. I had that fear. And the reason why i do is because i've seen in some places of worship. I have friends in states that have been open for a while. That are already there. I've already seen it. And i'm grateful that i'm seeing that they're already right back where they started because it is a reminder to me. Eight is yet another gift that we've been given that look look people are already. Your fears are coming true but it's a choice. What if we were to what we would if we were to encourage our listeners and ourselves to write down now in you know as we're as we're toward the end of the first phase of the virus what are key learnings. Were and what how how. I plan to modify my lifestyle based on based on what i've learned rather than falling prey to falling right back to consumerism. Shit in the politics and all of the and maybe even writing a letter like a gentle letter to yourself about how hard you worked to learn some of those things and how how hard it was but you did the work and you learn it. Don't throw it away. no you know what you do. You know the secret to that is mail it to your memory to yourself. You get it in the mail and then for some reason you know when you receive it in the mail you'll read it again and it will be pondered there and and you know then we could get real anal and checklist and all that kind of stuff but it just. We need to learn from this. I need. I need to learn from this. I don't i. I don't want to say what anybody else has to do. But i know what i need to do. And and in my in my spiritual ponderings. And that's another jennifer. What i have learned in mysticism and prayer have totally changed the way i view god and my review in my relationship with god it is just like nothing we've ever talked about before it is at such glands such at a different level such an hour. I wanna hear it paul okay. We'll we'll we'll we'll talk about it and It's it it's very encouraging jennifer. We are unfortunately we are out of time. And i you and i could go on for a little while longer. That's for sure. I just talking to. You just always encourages me. I can see you. You are my muse when i get writer's block i need to just call jay carney i enjoy. I enjoy your ideas and your christian turn. They thrill me. I love the way your your weird little mind work. You're an amazing person. That is so kind of jennifer. Thank you so much and I wanna thank you for being on the podcast with me and remind everyone that there is so much more to jennifer than makeup. But just i mean really. I mean makeup is just a fun little thing. She does on the side because It's i know you don't do it for the money. I know you do it for the fun on the money. Just kind of addicted of fun. Great you've and you've always been fun and so please check out. Jennifer bork Her facebook page and and follow her and get little makeup things. Even guys guys. It's fun to watch her and it's fun to watch a watch. A beautiful woman starring become a model. You know it's Made look at me. You've been great so Thank you jay. I love talking to you. And i wasn't also wanna thank Oliver audience for tuning into the next chapter with charlie and be sure to check out our website the next chapter dot life and until next. This is charlie hedges signing off by for now.

jennifer charlie charlie hedges facebook jennifer bork michigan tessa jenner tessa okay Charlie jen bork jennifer jay united states Jennifer Maria papova detroit brazil joseph cambell John
#136 Dena Crowder: Inner Power Craves Purpose

OC Talk Radio

50:14 min | 1 year ago

#136 Dena Crowder: Inner Power Craves Purpose

"And welcome everybody's time once again for the next chapter author with Charlie Hedges as he explores turning the page on his life and Yours Charlie. Okay Paul so What's up? Does he talk radio today. Well we're getting ready for the holidays and We take our one week off. So we're looking forward to that between Christmas and New Year's and launching again not just in New Year in the new decade. Oh it isn't a decade and then I take two weeks off because I right. I record on Wednesday. which is Christmas and New Year's right? You'RE GONNA miss. Yes oh I have I have I have two weeks off Two weeks reflecting get ready for the new decade. Yes yes and as a matter of fact the podcast we're doing today will be the first podcast of the year next year and arrested the decade than you mean the first of the decade. Yes and I am excited to have with us once again. My personal life coach Dina crowder Dina is amazing after working together for two years. Now I can't think of anyone that has impacted my life in the ways. Dina crowder has our wisdom is them inside truly equals that what I consider of sages and I don't think it's an overstatement now. The last idea was on the show we talked about Dealing with our inner critic. Well today were taking sort of the opposite direction and we're going to talk about our inner power and how our inner power craves purpose. I can't wait to get into the subject and I. In fact it was the topic of our last enormously normally impactful coaching session. I just have so much to learn. From Dina for those of you don't know Dina crowder as a high-performance strategist and chief chiefs spiritual officer for creators leaders. She has designed innovative programs for prison. Parolees judges associations nations. CEO's CNN Heroes Emmy and Grammy Award winners as well as executives for many organizations the likes of which include Nike Disney Nestle and Fox now in addition most recently lead Dina had the rare honour to give a presentation at a Ted x conference that was so highly received that she shoe received a standing ovation which is really quite unusual? Her topic naturally was on power. In fact Dina's on a mission to revolutionize the way the world understands relates to power. Her aim is to redefine power so that we use it for good Dina believes though I love this and I may repeat a DNA believes that pure power is the capacity to directly influence and manage your life with wisdom and compassion. It is the capacity to directly influence. Send manage your life with wisdom and compassion in other words. It's all about power to not power over her. I just I love those ideas. Edina welcome once again in the next chapter with Charlie. Hello it's good to me back. I feel like I'm back home. You just have such an inviting boys no wonder we can. We can talk so much It's just fun to hear you talk Tummy now. You just did a ted ex experience you you're dressing for your clothes were so you'll have to you. I know you've done post on. The people have to see the outfit. You're which was amazing and your presentation was each were equally as I want you. Tell me a bit about that Ted ex experience. Oh thank you Charlie You know I have to share that. The outfit was the result of a collaboration between myself. And one of my clients is that incredible really is is incredible because it was. It was a stunning of that. And yet and yet understated wasn't overstated by any means but it was just it was really it really good. Well it it's fascinating because the outfit or the style that you're talking about comes out of as I said a collaboration and collaboration between myself and the client this client when I first began working with with her a couple of years ago was in education. And she's still is but we discovered that she had buried a passion. I for clothing for fashion for styling and that in the course of US getting to know one another through me. Coaching her MHM. She rediscovered reawakened this passion and came out Charlie that she had gone to Fashion College. I mean in the forgotten about it for just put it in the closet and The part of her purpose part of her inner power connection turned out to be something she called divine filing which is working with leaders eaters who have something positive thing to Have Their dial or outfit match the frequency being of their message. She teaches school. Same time yes. She still a schoolteacher and yet she opened this Consulting business on the side as an expression of her passion and an expression of her purposeful service. You know that's so important that skirted bitcoin to lead into our topic. One thing I have to say you are brilliant at helping people discover uh hidden talents or hidden areas of expertise or passions desires. That have been locked up for years ears and you you have a methodology that she uses. It's not just by. It's not accidentally that you come up with the help us. Discover these sorts sorts of things and it is your talent but I like that that you told you spoke of her of her passion for design resonating with her inner power. And so I wanna say I so resonate with the truth that you that you put out interpower not only craves purpose. I love the verb crave that interpower craves purpose. But I also believe that interpower cannot even function without purpose. It's it's it's not even truly functional there there's an aberration to it a few days ago. You told me that purpose activates power. I like that and and to me. That's the reason power-crazed purpose because it craves active activation activation. Can you talk to me a bit about that. Because I think that's so important. That people are often looking for repurpose. They're seeking it and they they're all they feel lost without it and you asked about the tough. That's one of the things I cover in the talk Tuck. I speak about the incredible research that has been done by leading experts in medicine in psychiatry entry in Byo behavior in psychology that demonstrate win. We don't feel we're contributing meaning meaningfully. When we don't feel we're on purpose our immune systems suffer our physical bodies suffer? Our UH fake logical state suffers and in fact our genetic pattern really replicate those same patterns that are seen with people who are enduring chronic adverse correct about that from omen and that means we're wired for purpose and yet we're so often speaking it in a way that is detrimental and doesn't lead us to connect to it because we're looking for what I call the Ten Commandments. The the joke God walks into a bar. And you're just sitting in the bar and this God says hey here's here's here's your manual. Here's Your Ten Commandments. And everything's mapped out for you. Everything is decreed the outcome is guaranteed guaranteed. Why do we like that? So much. That fantasy we'll because it means we don't have to risk anything it it means we don't have to show up will. We don't know exactly how things are going to go are when we don't know the outcome when the terrain rain is uncertain. And of course that means we're not actually participating in living life though they're dead persons fantasies dead persons goal to just be sitting around and some Divine Messenger comes down and hands you everything you need canal. That's that's why he as you took me through the archetypes. Our ally archetypes was explorer and which has to do with curiosity that it is not sitting around waiting but exploring and searching and looking and and some kind of endeavor ever to find purpose meaning joy expression and receptivity which Wa- I hope we talk about later but we we have to be open and receptive to sources ideas concepts behaviors. That have been taboo to us and yet once we get into them we discover how much they really mean to us. I think I think I'm I'm I'm thinking of The very legalistic type of religions that really the prohibit people from getting in to deepen their soul in finding out what God in and and and I mean that in the G. Jio de sense what God has in mind for these people but but it reminds me of it reminds me of of education education. You know an infant is in an exploration style and we began with adolescence and move on to do some sort of some sort of a detailed constructed education but we never get out of that. We never moved from childhood into adolescence. To where we're thinking on our own to adulthood were behaving on our own and Touro head were bathing or of behaving wisely wisely on our own and were stuck in what no. I can't even remember the author's name at ticks me off every time who talks about secondhand trues we. I believe in second hand truths at somebody else's telling us what our purposes what are meaning is and this is where we need to be doing and yet it negates all the passion. Doesn't it well absolutely because we just talked about that idea that power grace purpose and power activate purpose. You you do well. Let's go back to that when we talk about inner power. I'm really speaking about connecting to your spirit and that is theon dogma. It beyond religion. It's simply a place where the deepest part of you connect with the deepest part of life and and when you're connected there you feel alive you feel connected with life but also with the universe person with all of the other forms of life that are moving in and about us when we're in that place right eight and were connected to the inner power. It's like a buzz and we do exactly what you just said. We begin something. We're open to the clues that life is sending us and we start. We put our feet on a path and as we go along on this path. We get an clue that tells us to adjust and so we go a little to the right now. We go a little to the left. Now we climb. I'm a mountain. Though we come down the mountain we actually are engaged with living rather than sitting around and saying. I wish I knew my purpose. I wish I knew my purpose. That's not actually what's happening with actually happening is that we straitjacketed our purpose. which you mentioned and alluded to when you're talking about how we're stuffing down passion? Where's the straitjacketing you are purpose? It cannot be liberated enough to make it really known to us are because we have this tight container meaner in our minds of what our purpose needs to be it needs to fit into that is close it needs to fit into the values. We've been conditioned to excess that the first question That we have to ask ourselves if we want to and that to this inner power and activate our purpose by taking a first step on a path is the actor so am I willing to practice radical Atika defiant of what I've been told you and prioritize were defines. His agree word. Am I willing to say no to some of the things that our culture as that give us any value like an expensive pair of shoes news or a handbag or a certain kind of salary. There's nothing wrong with those things but are are we pinning our innate value are you are missing. They're not the same thing. I'M ANYTHING FORCE FOR POWER EXACTLY FORCE and out an external force I believe it was meister. Eckhart talked about spirituality is more about subtraction. Addition it's about getting rid of those things you know those secondhand beliefs that are are running our lives yet. We are levy leading discontented and virtually virtually purposeless lives. I know you're taking me through the six principles of power and one of the principal was power requires connectivity is at the right. Yeah that's the first one is. It requires connection. You gotta get connected. And we're we're walking around disconnected. We don't feel the flow power. Charlie you would be the prize at how many people have titles positions degrees fancy Spanish headers etc.. And yet when I speak with them they realize oh my goodness I'm really disconnected from sense of my own agency my own power. I'm disconnected from my own passion. My own inner power. They feel disconnected from being on purpose. They may have a huge salary and may maybe written up in all of the though calls important media of the day and on TV. But yet. When I think with them they realized I I don't even know if I'm contributing meaningfully? Unfortunately so many people are under this stress daily. We're not feeling good heartbroken and the first step is oh my gosh I forgot to get connected precisely and you know what what concerns. It's me is that so many of us in united only speak of the United States so many of us don't even think in these terms terms it's not even you know they accept the status quo so so easily. It's what makes democracy work you. I know you can't you can't challenge it. Just go along with. And that's what makes a whole thing work and yet to have what we would consider a a truly purposeful a meaningful life means we have to depart from the status quo than we have to exit as not accent but enter as you called risky areas of our lives scary areas. Even there's places that you've taken me took me last this week. There was a scary area. It was it was a part that actually frightened to me but I know as soon as it frightened me and I knew as soon as I had pushed back on it we were on the right track. I knew right away as soon as I'm pushing back on the right road and we're on we're on the right road. What if I don't like this road? It must be the right road. That's why Scott Peck. The road less traveled because the road more traveled is the easy road. Oh the the God coming in and handing you the ten commandments of your life or this is instead got a gut commit came in and handed you a template separate says your life is what you choose to be and I believe in concert with the way created you with the way you've DNA the DNA. You were created to do a broad spectrum of things it's not. It's not very narrow but it's a broad spectrum of thing and so I I I I really like. It was one of the questions that I that I had. We were going to do later. But we're doing right now and that is talking about you talking about the connection with the spirit. I want to talk. LemMe see do I want it to WanNa take a break or do I want to get into this because this is going to be quite lengthy I think I think perhaps we should take a break because I have quite a bit to say on this. Okay this is Charlie hedges. You're listening to the next chapter. After which are Lee. And our very special guest I performance consultant and chief spiritual guru of highly creative and productive people. And we're talking about power and we're talking about inner power now and not not not necessarily power over situations and people although it does apply but inner power Craig's purpose and and we're talking that one of the things you need to do that is important is to connect with your spirit and that is oh so difficult to do and I I hear the question. The I hear the question for my listeners. Our listeners that are saying as you asked earlier outweigh know what my purpose is. I mean I don't even go about finding it. I've been looking for my purpose. Half my life and so many people are wrestling with that. Do you have any suggestions. I know I have the couple ideas but I I really want yours. Before the break we talked about her mission to say no radical defiant of what we've been taught to value and prioritize. I WanNa give you an example. I had a client who you were in an extremely high position in the world of tech and this particular client was and not happy. I'm not happy I I hate what I'm doing. I don't like it I. I know it's time for me to move on. There's something else as clear as those words sound to us and founded to this client. There was no movement. Isn't there was no action. Client continued day after day month after month to remain in a position that was hurtful it was damaging and so on and so forth. Now what's going on here was very clear. I I'm not contributing meaningfully here. I don't like it it. It's it's making me sick. Well what's going on there. Is there was a complete unwillingness the say no to the values that ah that individual had been taught to value and prioritize and one of the values was your only okay If you are working for a big huge name brand and company if you leave and you go to a smaller company if you leave and you start something of your own if you leave and you become a consultant any number of possibilities That this person could have followed. You're not valuable. You're not okay and there there we are. It's not that the client didn't understand what the next step was. We talked about that before. The break the permission mm-hmm and then the willingness to say okay. I'm going to value my design. I'M GONNA value my my spirit how I made what I was put here to do. The radical defiant say no to what the the the old values it is in relationship to our egos defiance of why we were put here in the first place so that client would saying saying unconsciously of course but this is what it boils down to. I'm paying lip service to purpose but I really don't care as much about fat as I care what other people think of me. I really don't care as much about my contribution and why I'm really here and what I'm here to do. Do and I care about people thinking that I'm important in the hierarchy of status. You know I so I so agree with that one thing I might suggest instead of who saying no to certain things. I found it helpful to say. I don't know oh I no longer know so. I'm open to receive something different because everything is not necessarily know there may be some yeses is in there that are still good. Yeah but that I don't know in so I have to. I have to remain totally. Open that that everything. Everything is open for for evaluation and change if necessary and the things that are truly part of my intervene. My inner self. Those get to stay at least they're working on it. That's that's really that's really good. You know I think that exactly right. You don't throw everything out. In an in the example I was using that client knew that that job was very detrimental and it was a fighting. They ended the fight to the death. Finally it did happen and they moved on but it was a it was really a an inner battle at epic proportions. Listen between the thought. The Eagles thought of losing the status. And what that meant. I is taking this new step. You told me stories of of of people without naming people but you told me stories about that. That have been quite intriguing and they've been close to your family people that have it. May those kinds of Changes that have really helped one of the things Nina that I have recently discovered. I just completed Ryan holidays. Stillness as the key and it's in it's all about peace serenity and deals with the mind the spirit and the body that of all things. I thought the body would be the thing I was least interested in and it turned out to be the most interesting part part of the book and and he's written two other books now I I just can't recommend right holiday strongly enough to people that he's written a book. Titled Ego is the enemy and the obstacle is the way and then he's he's calling it a trilogy but you can read them in any order. One doesn't require reading the first one. That's why I've read the last one I still. This is the key but one thing I learned from holiday is that one thing that is needed to discover your inner purpose his to make time for solitude serenity and reflection to allow your inner voice to to speak at requires at art of listening rather than telling our even our pressed desperate asking. Oh tell me my purpose because most of the time it sneaks in when you're not even looking but merely reflecting her. What do you think about Boca way agree with it? Absolutely and in fact is always trying to communicate with you is communicating in with burs. It's communicating in shout. It is leaving clues everywhere in the form of Repeating pattern in the form of synchronicity. Even in the form of some of our biggest disappointment yes yes absolutely because that informed so much of a set. Yes one of the things that I do every year at the end of the year. The December I'm doing this now client is we have a year end review by no I tell on you charlie. I was guy was not giving that away but the in the year in review one of the questions is what. Were your your biggest disappointments this year. people like some people are dive right in others to avoid it because they falsely anything. The disappointments I avoid thinking about them. Then I won't have to feel that the pain I won't have to feel the disappointment. It's actually actually very wrong. Because the more they disconnected from connecting remember power begins with connection the morning they disconnected from really feeling the disappointment. The more they carry that burden basket of those disappointments into the New Year here in probably will repeat them. What we WANNA do is listen so that we can allow the full wisdom that arises from the disappointment? It's like what is the lesson from disappointment. What is the wisdom that if you really sat with the disappointment you can peak and then take that wisdom into the next year so you don't have to repeat like a hamster wheel hamster on wheel the same disappointment and this brings us back to your question about the stillman and the reflection that's an example stillness villainous and reflection? That's an example of the clues if we can simply take time take some time to you. Do those types of reflections to ask ourselves and make a list would include in the universe sending me what what what am I hearing repeated again and again and you write those down that you will see a sign post that says this way way not that away and you can take your first step you know it it. It re one thing it requires is it's not It's not haphazard hazard. I have discovered in order for me to have these times Solitude serenity reflection requires discipline and for me in different people. It's it's different ways and different times but for me. It's in the morning and I have about an hour and a half every morning I get up so you know I'm I'm functioning by nine o'clock nine thirty but I have an hour and a half of you've eating a certain way of meditating of spiritual reading of journaling where just let these things out and and there are times especially at meditation that twenty to thirty minutes of total silence and and letting letting my inner self speak to myself itself so I think I think one point it in order to get to that place that does require discipline. It doesn't happen accidentally that it has to become something that is important to you. Knowing your purpose is not haphazard it is a it is an intentional effort. Would you agree with that. I agree it is intentional. And one of the words that I like to offer people so instead of discipline when it comes Thames freaks people out in devotion or even desire because when people think of discipline there. Oh I can't I don't or they have these nightmares about nuns in school. And it's like okay. Well what are you devoted to. What are you devoted to because when you? Ken acknowledged and connect. There's our word again to what it is that you're devoted to Then that can give you the answer and the motivation to be consistent with whatever ever that the practices are and whatever the success structures are that are going to support you in taking the next step in the next nextstep and evolving accelerating and moving higher That and when I say desires the same you could ask yourself itself okay. We'll devotion doesn't work for me. Discipline doesn't work for me but desire myself. What do I really dire and not what anybody else wants for me? Not what somebody else as you were saying. says I should be but what do I desire tire and when you can connect to that you have you have awakening of Energy and passion and that can that can see through. Oh I I have to important comments and there because you said you said many wonderful. Oh things are one thing about discipline. I like devotion but you know you know a words work for me. This is what works for me. I can't say it's GonNa work for anybody else but instead of discipline I develop a routine or ritual. So it's not a it's not like discipline like Jaakko Willik. WHO's a highly allie decorated seal one of the most highly decorated? CL's said discipline is freedom. That is true but discipline such negative connotations to it. That's why y you know really successful people all have I just read a piece on Winston Churchill and he was he had his routines his is ritual. His Day was ritually established the way he the way he lived his day and Winston Churchill. I mean perhaps the most is to -CCOMPLISH person of the twentieth century. I think he certainly GonNa fit in the top five. That's that that's for truth And then and then I wanted to say that and then you talked about something else that I really think was important. I wanted to get onto and you were talking about you talking about in your second part. Both of his can't bring on there. But when when you were you you mentioned earlier about status quo and about democracy and even you know society functioning because people accept their roles and yet we you and I totally live in a country that was founded by people who had a the about defiant radicals defiant against the status quo of what government before them had been slow at Jefferson? Said we've got a refresh. We've got a refresh. We've gotTa have a revolution every few years. And he was hoping that it didn't require bloodshed but I think we had a very big understanding that we always have to be in in the process of exploring of being curious and asking. Okay let's my contribution now how things need to change. How do I need to update because they were updating everything that they'd been conditioned to value and prioritize oh any created and that leads me to to thinking of a thing I heard by comedian Seth Meyers Tires and he said of Jefferson? Were to come back today at all the conversation the Constitution and say you mean you guys have an added any shit in two hundred years left it the same way. Don't you know we were just thinking what was necessary. Then Times have changed you. It's time to to review this. I've always gotten a kick out of that I wanted I want to change something that I'm not even sure that it exactly has to do with. We were talking about but I think it's so important for me to tell a story about What impact solitude and serenity and reflection of come upon me and that is in perhaps DNA the the last three years and you and I talked quite frankly about this? I have reached much clarity on my inner purrs on my inner purpose by what I'm calling the invasion of my feminine news some call it the divine feminine I know she is of God and and and I wrote to you that she has a rock solid softness which is you know sort of sort of contradictory but but there is. There's a softness to her but at the same time It is it is it is rock rock solid and it has probably really made as most as much impact on my life as anything that I thought of before and that my leadership style. Oh it's still have the Mayo. Part of the strength of leadership but compassion empathy care of people the way I present materials thinking and the thinking in the feminine has. It's completely changed the way I attempt to influence wants people than I tend to. I don't want to say exert power but but use power in positive ways and and and and and. I think there's much of that you know. We have the women's movement but the Women's movement is really copying the men's movement is and and and and I believe in the female being the female and that female aspect and I think we both have carry both of those genders with then is to some degree and that feminine is so powerful for me and what what do you what do you make of that. I'm going to stay things. That are stereotypical or kind of putting things into one big category even though there's a lot more nuance but I'm GonNa do that for the sake of the conversation and feminine is associated in this kind of stereotypical way With receiving it is associated with the ability to to perceive and to hold and also with compassion those that would be considered a feminine capital S.. Value does that. The main that men don't receive don't have the capacity for compassion. Absolutely not because each person as you've just described has both both feminine and Masculine Traits So we're this is obviously quite simplistic but it helps to have the conversation and what we are steeped in in this culture of power over and wet power over. That's where there's dominator and dominated there's a ruler and a ruled old. We have though internalized that system as the norm that we don't even see it. It's the water we swim in the air we breathe. We don't even notice that it's going on but it is the y you or anyone getting in touch with what we are calling the feminine effeminate qualities the goddess within. That's so trendy and cliche but they again. I think we know what we're talking about out here. What then happens is there's an ability to step away from the automatic capitule power over way of being and to integrate these other things into our inner power system so that we actually are way more powerful than we were we were simply practicing what we would? Call the masculine trait which are doing. Yeah doing and kind of external building and and moving those are the masculine traits and our culture of power over that has been distorted is functioning turning on a distorted masculine principle feeling. That doesn't have compassion that doesn't value with them and what would happen then. Is You lose engagement. Empowerment you lose people being excited about following a leader of its power over. It's just who I've gotTa do this to keep my job or I've gotta do this to do a task task rather than I'm part of the solution in my my value as a human being is appreciated and I'm getting to use my talents balance because they are appreciated. I don't have to hold them back. Okay there's one thing I think I think it's time to it close There is one thing I want to go back to. The we talked a way back. But it's it's a big concern of mine elway's where we're talking about disappointments of the year. Yeah one of the difficulties that I can face with breath. Disappointments and failures is shame and embarrassment and that is so difficult. No no one who wants to go there right. You just don't want to go to that place yet. It is a dark place you that we entered the dark to see the light. That the that there is you know as they say light at the end of the tunnel. There's light coming out of the darkness there. Yeah but but that shame and and embarrassment is so critical to face because there are times the things I said I may do that. I may consider shameful or embarrassing. That are embarrassing. Important things for me to do that. They are actually okay. Hey in my set of values but I'm listening to secondhand beliefs again away. Yeah well well. It's it's been said that. Shame and this is Bernie Brown. Who's quite popular right now? Even has a special in that flicks talked talked about shame being the feeling or belief that who I am as bad and guilt is what I did was that so when we talking talking about making a mistake or doing something and then we're not doing something and then saint. Gosh I feel ashamed that in her understanding some kind of flavor of who I am as bad and that feels awful but let me take that that further. I what I see is that when that whole thing is happening what we do. Is We disconnect you you think that who you are as bad or sometimes even if it's guilt and you think oh what I did was so bad. You don't feel worthy of staying connected to your spirit. You don't feel worthy of having your purpose be unclear meaningful. Because you've already judge yourself and censor yourself to this punishment. The of unworthiness connection the first principle of power. The first thing that we have to attend to win you we notice. I'm feeling feeling really bad. I'm feeling like I messed up. Feeling like a made a mistake. I'm feeling ashamed. I'm feeling guilty. Oh my I sort of business is to connect act and ever you do that whether you connect through prayer whether you connect through meditation whether you have a A buddy that that you get into regular accountability with that you helped with each other's goals all of these things work but the thing thing is you have to remember nothing work if you're not willing to get connected I for that is that is that is brilliant at in it and it it means it means sort of sort of fighting the fair were of that in order to receive insightful results. Like what I was saying. You don't necessarily have to say no you have to say I don't know in that at that I don't know has to do with shame and guilt and embarrassment that I don't know that I really you did shameful things they may not in my Dna god-given value system they may not be shameful activities titties although socially they could be saying shameful activities Kelly. I was told many years ago when I began on this path to helping others. I was told by a very close family member. It it would be better if you're a heroin addict. Because their treatment for that I was told by another very close family member. Oh my God this is just the most embarrassing thing ever her. What do I tell my friend? I was mocked by another family member. I was told by someone who was interested in dating me that I would never ever succeed. I was told by someone else who is interested in dating me that I was a dangerous woman because I might be responsible for. Having women disagree with their husbands on certain ideas if I had them going into self reflection reflection and that's just the beginning of all of the belief that were thrown at me and some of them did sting and some of them did bring forth a feeling in me of internalizing or an experience of internalizing. Some of the the shame or R. O.. ooh doubt oh I mean is it really. I mean and and so I had to practice when I'm preaching with connection and empowers it empowers us and so we simply have to let go and offer those things up and then keep coming back to hit a point of connection again and again and that connection is what drives us to our purpose. Yes and our inner power war is creating that purpose. Yeah the vehicle you're suggesting not. But but and the suggesting his connection with our spirit yes that is correct. Dina we deaths linked to talk for hours. It is is always so enlightening talk with you. Thank you thank you so much. For this time together I was away from the MIC for a while there I was had my eyes closed. I was thinking I so appreciate you and everything you do. Thank you for spending time with me today. I am always depending. Will you the great. And I'll see you a see you on Saturday for our powers zoom year in yet you whenever in square use video or audio and video. Oh my goodness okay. That's enough of that uh-huh I also WanNa think our listeners. Tuning into the next chapter with Charlie and be sure to check us out at our website the next chapter dot light until next actually this is Charlie hatches signing off by for now.

Charlie Hedges Dina crowder Dina US Dina crowder Ted Paul CNN Edina Winston Churchill Scott Peck Emmy CEO Wa officer consultant Grammy Award
#90 KC Armstrong: The Inspiration of Hope

OC Talk Radio

49:20 min | 3 years ago

#90 KC Armstrong: The Inspiration of Hope

"Just because it's called higher education doesn't mean high tuition costs have to be the norm at strayer university. We have the radical opinion that education should be affordable with our graduation fund. You can earn up to twenty five percent off your bachelor's degree the tuition making it possible to succeed in today's world welcome to the future of Education strayer university out with the old school spare university is certified to operate by chef. Welcome everybody's time once again for the next chapter with Charlie hedges as he explores turning the page on his life and yours. Hey Charlie Paul. It's nice to be with you at O.. C. Talk Radio and I WANNA welcome all our listeners to the next chapter with Charlie and this is where we <hes> we dissect strategies strategies and tactics used by successful people to make life changes that are necessary for their meaningful next chapter in life and hopefully <hes> I can learn something from it and maybe you can too <hes> today. You know it's another one I I'm. I'm in bed shape day. I just returned from Uganda yesterday's Appalachian so I am on Stone African that means it's three o'clock in the morning right now but <hes> it's. It's nothing that a good monster green can't fix right so nevertheless today we are in for quite a treat. My guest is Casey Armstrong a man with the most fascinating life K. C. is a former cast S. member of the Howard Stern Show and a twenty year veteran of radio currently he's on a network called world's most amazing people radio and on his show Casey interviewed food hundreds of people about their lives the impact on the of the world on themselves and how they overcome adversity to inspire and help other people. I think that's really cool <hes> with that. Let's bring Casey on on Casey. What's up? Hey Charlie is so nice to be with you. Thank you so much and <hes> I've heard so many cool things about you man <hes>. I know that you're you're hurting because <hes> it's it's like <hes> you know. You haven't slept probably in a while but tell me what you're doing in you got it so neat. Yeah I worked for. I it's funny I I had this guy my podcast but a year ago no you're and a half ago. You're go march and he was the C._E._O.. Of A nonprofit N._G._O.. Jio called wells of life that digs clean water wells in Uganda and I got into it so much that we funded six wells and then the next thing I know is I'm visiting Uganda Ronda last a year ago August and I become a trustee of the board of the N._G._O.. In Uganda and then by October I'm vice president of the board and and sort of in charge urges Ugandan operations and not in charge of it but I but I do a lot to do with Ugandan operations and so I'm in Uganda about four times a year I was there the entire month of August and I had to go back for some important meanings important sessions but we dig water wells in rural villages. I mean we're talking boonies man when when you're driving out there there is there is no such thing as a paved highway and it just all has ruts what's in it you know so you drive in these horrible rose to get back to these people that have no access to clean water. They're they're drinking out swamps man. It's just it's horribly. Donald Right what's at with you know what we have photographs of an animal in a swamp and a child feeling Jerry Ken with water right next to it and that animal is defecating in the water. You know it's just it's just it's terrible. It's terrible I will charlie. Let me tell you how <hes> amazing. I think that is that that you go and you do that. <hes> and <hes> you know it. You're supposed to lead this place better than you found it and when people do stuff like you're doing. That's what this is supposed to be. That's what we're supposed to be doing was helping each other out so <hes> I love hearing about that. I it. It's very close to be because <hes> I know the Messiah the Chief Joe who's from chief Joe. I can't pronounce his last name but about of course I know I know I get the I'll give American names right and <hes> he <hes> they come over every every year. We do some fundraising here on and they pay my mother. <hes> is a a big <hes> <hes> <hes> proponent of them because she she went over to Africa. Actually this is funny because he's in the in the book she went over. She's English teacher as a retirement present. She went over there <hes> to Africa and started teaching English to the kids in the school dirt hurt floors <hes>. No you know I've seen schools yeah. It's it's it's <hes> it's pretty <hes> like you were talking about before how you described it and that's exactly how she was saying and it's it it breaks you get. She said these kids were the most respectful kids they love to hear <hes> what she had to say they were you know they were so polite and they wanted to learn <hes>. Did you find that with people. Absolutely you know you find you find very happy people title and very grateful incredibly grateful people when we when we dig a well and we'll take a donor to the to the well there will be a hundred villagers show up and they will be dancing and singing and and giving having praises to the people that brought them clean access to clean water where they didn't have access to it before and they would have to walk kilometers to get water and we get it to where they you know we try to do. A thirty minute deal where takes thirty minutes to go to the borehole we call it a borehole at digging the well go to the borehole. Get your water and get home within thirty minutes. That's the U._N.. Standard and UNICEF standard and so that's what that's what we're trying to do and <hes> it is just you know and it's like it's like one of those things you talk about overcoming adversity. You know I I had to retire early. I retired at sixty five but retarded earlier than I wanted to because of an anxiety disorder order and I went through men Casey let me tell you I went through the adversity I went through is not like most that are in your book because I I read you know what the chapters would be about <hes> but it was it was this boredom boredom and uselessness. You know that happens when when you're used to having a full calendar and when I started doing this and you talk about doing public service there is nothing like it. There's nothing more fulfilling in the world. Oh you're so right and he's people are so happy and so friendly and so grateful. It's a wonderful it's a wonderful deal. I mean if you know if you can look back in your life. You'RE GONNA remember how much money you made or the business deal that went great or you. Remember the look on someone's face when you did something like you did when you show them how to get clean water. I mean come on in. I mean it's it. It can't even compare yeah. You know. I'm I'm. I'm kind of into this thing thing. You know this legacy thing is it's not that people remember me. I you know I could care less if they remember me as a person but that they can remember the deeds that I did that might that the deeds that I did impacted their lives and change is our lives. I legacy is all about legacy people misunderstand legacy. Don't you think they think it's about people remembering me. <hes> and I don't think that's it. It's remembering the impact you made. That's that's you know that's a great point but I I think what people mean anybody who would say or do something like that. It's probably not about them. It's probably about if if I could leave anything behind it's about you know what what effect I you know. I don't need people to me but yeah exactly what you said however you said that I wanNA play that back on that because it's true well. You say it's true dude. That's true. That's it now before. We get more more into this because that's what your book is. I is about and we're going to talk about that but <hes> it was funny I got home yesterday and I said okay. I'm interviewing Casey Armstrong today so let me go get his book and I couldn't get it on Amazon from Africa so I I rushed Barnes and nobles to pick it up and they said Oh. It's coming out next week. No no way and I'm interviewing this guy so so but I did read <hes> <hes> that you that you spent some time and I and I you know I've got. I gotta hear about this so you gotTa tell me a little bit about you spending time with Howard Stern what that was like sure yeah <hes> I I can't say enough good things about how it I as soon as I was <hes> my I played my fifth year of Football at Western Kentucky University right after that season <hes> is when I started working for him. I left early because I interned the <hes> summer beforehand and I started you know submitting ideas and <hes> when I went back <hes> I kept writing every day it was you know I'm like no CD guy so if I want something <hes> I'd do it the best acid I can't do it at all so I wrote every day bits and <hes> jokes or whatever and he he's like. I I like this Guy <hes> when it's possible bring him back here and <hes> I I want them to to come and join US man. I that was like <hes>. How old were you then? I was twenty one twenty one no way right I it was so surreal him to be in one of those writer meetings when I was an intern and to see these I think they're geniuses. I know Howard is <hes> and <hes> people you respect and it was just incredible. I mean that the guy actually wanted me around you know it was really really cool and and I will never ever <hes> say anything but amazing things about him because he took a chance of me and right out of college who would do that yeah well. He obviously recognize some talent and that's that's something that's something talented person can do as they recognize gifts and <hes> he saw that you had that but you know I have. I have heard just as you said I've heard so many people talk about Howard Stern and what a great it guy he is you know they you know he has here's a show to do but he's doing a bit. He's doing a GIG and this is <hes> this is what draws an audience and and makes the show what it is but apart from that that he's really just a great guys that is that true yeah. He he really is like I was saying that book that I talked about him and I talked about meeting this this kind of <hes> kind of scummy <hes> publisher like <hes> when I was homeless in California <hes> <hes> and <hes> The guy offered me a lot of money to write every bad thing every rumor everything I had heard about my ex boss and you know as I say I was living in a car that it was not mine <hes> living in a car. That's not mine. No it was not I mean you didn't just go up and down the street and find a car and no it was. It was probably like a a rental car. They were that back then <hes> i. I must have kept too long and became blankets and pillows in the back in <hes>. You know I'M GONNA get. I'm hey guys. I'm going to get you back. Don't worry about you know like one of those things. It wasn't like a dishonest thing but hey I'm GonNa get you back. I'M GONNA pay as much as I can. <hes> that's before they put the trackers in that would have been really bad but this is supposed to say I'm GonNa give money to say these bad things and the things you heard like what the guy gave me a job out of college you think I'm Gonna I'm GonNa do that yeah. I'm GonNa Horrible Place Myself. But why would I turn on somebody who was good to me. That's <hes> hey that's a great attitude because not everybody would do that. <hes> a lot of people would in it. You GotTa believe the best and people and I I got a second chance so I think other people should yeah. I I believe so much in second chances because I've had so many second chances at probably had seven careers and half of them are second chances that that something went wrong and and I went out and did something different now you got to be at this real popular. Show Charlie and you got <hes>. How did you get this the anxiety <hes> because I've had panic attacks? I know you talk. It's debilitating. I know you mean tell me about that. That was <hes> he you know it was it was it really didn't happen as panic attacks but what had happened is that I was an executive coach with <hes> I had five guys I just had men and they were C._E._O.'s all C._E._O.'s of billion billion dollar companies and and I was there executive coach and willing to came to the point that I would coach them and work with him that I started stuttering that I knew something was wrong that that and these guys that I'm friends with I mean yeah I know these guys. I mean you know it's not like Oh. I got this superstar stardom fair. It wasn't that at all because I that's not part of me but but it <hes> I just started stuttering in and anxiety came on around fifty the and then just hit me strongly and I have <hes> in the last couple of years. I've gotten over it and it just it really doesn't <hes> it doesn't impact me but I don't do. I used to do public speaking you know where I would speak two thousand two thousand people people and and I couldn't even and and you know what I would do. It was funny. I speak to speak to a large crowd of people and I thought it was normal. I thought because you know you always hear about the anxiety of public speaking and that's a number one thing people are afraid of. I thought it was normal to get up two or three nights two or three times a night and heave. I thought that was I thought that was just part of the job. You know I didn't realize that was anxiety Eddie getting me to John When you say that it brings back because public speaking I always thought that the thing you were supposed to do is they were supposed to envision you naked so I went up there naked and got arrested a bunch of times but I don't WanNa talk about. Tell me kidding totally out of meat to make light up but I know you mean the you think about <hes> if you if you let if you bet that happen it's it's not really a choice but sometimes it does thoughts come in and they're hard to stop up and they can have a physical effect like you were throwing up. I can't imagine what mentally was going on with you with that. Well you know it would only be before and after during the gig itself I just came alive. I loved public speaking and I came alive. I could connect with the people we got I would I would I would so products like Crazy Casey. I'd I take if I had a small group of one hundred people. I'd have to take seventy five ibooks because I would have seventy five sales seventy five percent sales <hes> on this product that I had and it just was <hes> it was an amazing time but but then afterward then I'd go through the downside of it you know and and the cure for that was in my next problem. Which is the same problem I read you had my next problem was well? There's nothing like a glass of wine to fix that. What what fifty one? That's it see that was a that's the deal you know. The old one is good. I mean to even better yet well to is what I liked to is what I liked and then I said Gosh I feel this good after two then the third one Scott feel even better and then by the second bottle you know I'm I'm suffering hangovers the next morning and and feeling terrible so <hes> moderation. We don't know too much about doing no <hes> there is no so so the moderation is I just don't drink yeah. No I get <hes> you know. We're not good at <hes> putting that down like the A._A.. I've been a <hes> An and read the book and everything and they say in there. They say you. You know if you don't think that you're an alcoholic. Whatever just try it? Here's a test <hes> drink one beer one glass of wine. If you can leave it there then you know you might have some other issues or whatever but if you have to take that the second one there is your complete. You're an alcoholic and you need help and you always will be yeah. I I would have time so you know I I really am a weird alcoholic and that I have times where I could have a glass of wine and I would have Easter like eastern for lent for six and a half weeks I gave up line and it was no big deal. I just gave it up but then come Easter Sunday that bottle opened up uh-huh both like binge drinkers. I Guess Yeah Jesus Rose in Soda and so did the Cork love that line. That's good so tell me tell me about this book that you wrote this <hes> simply amazing search <hes> basically it's eleven stories of people who have gone through challenges kind of like me and you but <hes> you could be in the book but I I I was always saying like I have no idea why I get to be in this book. I mean I don't deserve that. When you talk about people that go through challenges I mean me just being drunk and and being mentally ill yeah that's that's tough but when you see <hes> you here a story about Verna rice who was a prisoner at Auschwitz and Montana and concentration camp and he weighed seventy one pounds when he got rescued and he had to sleep next to it dead man for three days to get his rash anyone you think you think for minute I should be in the same book as that because I drink too much you know <hes> it's it's it's incredible? I mean <hes> to listen to that guy. He sat across me for two hours and I just I was it was like I remember talking talking to make my grandfather. He was a were to navy guy. WHO's ship got blown up and he was in the water for a long time so I remember to sitting waiting every word because it was so interesting and that's kind of how I felt when Verna Rice was in studio and Charlie? These are the people that are in the book. There are eleven of people who have done things that I couldn't even imagine I would fold it in a minute yeah. You know you said something you said something in in one of the things that I read is that that the people that you interviewed <hes> dealt with adversity with grace and dignity <hes>. Can you tell me what you mean by that yeah <hes> I you know again i. I'm somebody who has always <hes> in the meetings. You learn to get out of your head or whatever but I've always was never able to appreciate anything. I was never I was always an ingrate. I was always <hes> was never good enough. If I can never understand why things were the way they were in <hes> it was always upset and then I see people when they handle it when I said with grace and dignity <hes> they didn't take the easy way out like I did like a coward I I I drank myself to death right very much <hes> they didn't do that they they went through their their troubles and through through determination and never never having never thinking of me but that's that's the difference between myself and then I always think it's about me you know like right but they have raised that way. You know that's part of the culture is to be about you know your mother tells you you can be anything you want to be right yeah and and it is all about you so we come from that culture so we can't be too hard on it. Because that's the way the whole culture thinks about the culture prison narcissistic culture but I gotTa Tell You my my mother if she told me I she did tell me I could do anything I want and it'd be anything I wanted and <hes> she believed in the hundred percent she could. I bet you if you have to I would still be president an dedicated to book to her because she has been the one person. That never gave me a I could it. I remembered her number. I could call it from jail to see the you know she's <hes> and I'm what makes us so special for me. Charlie this book and that it's done so well. Is that me and my mom who's my best friend. We did it together <hes> and all really yeah yeah she <hes> she's <hes> an A._p.. English <hes> she was an English teacher retired and <hes> we <hes> it just kind of happened that way where she was just a you know an incredible with <hes> with <hes> helping with an editing natural editor. Oh my God I mean she was copy and grammar copying yeah. You wouldn't know by the way I speak but you know I my mother was butcher the language Charlie so but <hes> it was it makes it so much more special because <hes> this is something that we did together and we're going to help so many people and that's what I'll remember when I'm gone. You know that that's is funny that we both have the people. The most important people in our lives are are mothers mindless my mother I was I was adopted at seven years old. At before seven I was <hes> I was not house bliss that was put in houses but I was homeless because I would be put in Oh four five six different houses and and this was from the age of four to seven three to seven four to seven and people would you know after a couple of months between our soon people would say do wanna live with us for the rest of your life and I'd say sure you know like a home and the next thing I know is I'm getting passed off to someone else and so you can't help think there's <hes> there's something wrong with you. You know if rejection at that age that would do but then I was and then I ran away I was with my father. My father was an alcoholic and and he was you know he drank he drank a bottle of liquor a day at least and you know of Rotgut Whiskey sqi nothing about that Charlie relate to that at all Jeez. He died drinking moonshine. He it was <hes> there was some kind of poison. You know some kind of bad material. What what I ran away from home when I was seven literally my sister's thirteen years older than I and she helped me and I packed everything in a suitcase that was about eighteen inches by eighteen inches and sixteen and and six eight inches wide that was everything I owned I pack that in and they took me to <hes> my aunt and uncle's house and my uncle was washing down the hosing down the driveway which you never do now but you know you could do that in the fifties? And I told him Hainkel Gem I've come to live with you and he said <hes> welcome home son and after that they both just took me in and gave me so much love just totally changed my life she was that's home for you. That's done yeah that is home and she is she was such an incredible mother. Who gave me hope and and you know instead of being what I thought was a total loser that you know I had some? I had some hope in life and and I can do something and and it's and it's really when my mother died it was like God died in my life my jaw but that that's what I'm telling you takes one person sometimes one person to believe in you and to tell you that you know you are not what you think you are and no matter what you've done what you may think of yourself. Sometimes that one person is all the difference in the world. I think you can relate to you know you just said something that I really hadn't thought of that really <hes> <hes> that I thought a lot of before but it is so true. It's somebody that believes in you when you have someone that believes in you that really does give you hope for your own personal future because you can't see it yourself but that sometimes someone else can and those people are so special will never forget those people I had a teacher in fourth grade who I mean you know I thought it was one of the dumbest kids in the class and and again in the kid in they gave us an I._Q.. Tests and it turns out that my I._Q.. was like stupid high and and and she put me sort of putting me in these classes and I'm saying why are you putting me here and she said because you're intelligent and I said no you must have mixed up the test ask somebody and but she had faith in me and and that that woman that one fourth grade teacher that's another person just like that and how she made a difference in my life without without that teacher telling you that I mean that was a game changer right. That was a game changer yeah and it was and seeing it's not family you know she's not. She's not supposed to say those things she doesn't have to. She doesn't have to say those things. You know that's when they really really means. Something does a great stories man. That's a that's really cool here man. Thanks for sharing that with me I want I wanNA hear more. We're GONNA take a break but then when we come back I wanna hear more about <hes> some of these stories in how people have turned earned adversity in to <hes> into public service and into greater dis for humanity I I'm. I'm really curious about what that transformation look like Charlie how long it breaks because <hes> I what else do is. I'll play <hes> I have a bunch of the authors and they're they're giving a maybe a minute each. Whatever and I can play during your brakes? How long are your brakes minute okay? I'll play play <hes>. I'll just hang out for one minute. That's all right. It's all right. It is okay but you've put one upset one up to play one that will will will play one when we come back. Oh sure okay all right no problem I go ahead Yeah uh-huh Hey I'm Charlie hedges and you're listening to the next chapter with Charlie and I am here with a very special guest Casey Armstrong. It just has a book that is <hes> by the time we publish this podcast. The book will you can actually buy it. It will be will be out and it's called simply amazing and it is a book where he interviews people that have overcome come adversity really really deep adversity to have an impact on on the world in some way or another and we're going to talk about that now and the rest the podcast <hes> Casey. You said you said you had an interview with one of your people that you wanted to that. You wanted to play a jolly. If I could sum up this book and pleased to <hes> it would be with that gentleman. I was talking to you about before the Verna rice he <hes> was a prisoner <hes> the Nazi death camp Auschwitz and Montana's and and I think one other that I don't I don't don't want to embarrass myself even more by trying to pronounce it but <hes> He I told you before he slept next to a dead man he weighed seventy three pounds. He was made to wear as prayer souls as underwear he was humiliated. Did he was beaten. He saw his mother's sister. Is everybody around him. <hes> was just taken and killed <hes> he was by himself at a young age and yet he has the the word is but he says this and this is how you should live your life <hes> Charlie. You'RE GONNA love this ready. I'm ready. Let's call Nice everybody because they are nice but because you oh you are ignore lots of minor things on important still daddy unimportant whether the person next to you so bill is French fries catch up on this apple nope that's unimportant in other words mine y'all and business but when it comes to the person safety or will Rabin come up be the first while people have helped me and I've helped others and it should be we've that man. Oh my goodness be nice to others through that tennis not about you. Well you know I it sounds like that. That could've been a teaching that that he learned from that experience there is there is something about now. I don't want you know that's such a such a heavy heavy experience but in our normal experiences for we go through our normal adversities we go through struggle. I really do look at them. At I you know I may I may wine about it a bit but <hes> I at the end of the day I look at them. This is an opportunity. It's always an opportunity ready for growth. Adversity and struggle is always an opportunity for growth and and as long as I look at it that way and see what can I learn what did I do. How can how can I do it better? <hes> it. It never fails goes to help me never fails to teach me and that that's that's something <hes>. Do you have the jaw you do. You have a faith <hes>. Do you have <hes> you have got in your life. Oh Yes yes I was. I was <music>. Actually I was a minister for in a in a large Church of twelve thousand people I was minister. I went to seminary and <hes> come I might degrees and Hebrew studies in Greek studies and I was a minister large a very large community church in Irvine California Charlie. Are you sure that you should be writing the book and I should be asking you about stuff pretty pretty. You got some story <hes> <music> I've got I've got a couple couple up. My sleeve probably probably the most interesting ones though are ones that we know that are different tell you about those are the ones of my seventies the dark years in in the nineteen seventies and he's Emmett twenties <hes> where you know I love to say people told me I saw led Zeppelin. That's good <hes> manage. It's a you know people people heard some heavy like the stuff that you were sharing and then they are from <hes> from burner and and it's <hes> you know it's sometimes life is heavy. Sometimes it's too much and you wanted to stop and <HES> I. I think you and I both know that <hes> you know. Sometimes we'll do anything to make it. Stop and not not necessarily the right thing but it's <hes> you know everybody's going. Everybody's going through it. You know I um yeah. I still go to <hes> I I still I. I don't know why I just took my. I just took my seven year chip last night. I still go to meetings. That's awesome. <hes> I was really funny. I had twenty one years. <music> are twenty one. I had twelve years sobriety on my own and then I just got hanging out with the wrong in the wrong playground the wrong playmates and drank for a couple of years myself ended up with a couple of D._U.. Is In in two weeks and and <hes>. I realize I've got a problem. I've got to do something and <hes> so really out of delays twenty one years I only have two years of drinking but they were they were pretty pretty intense. Drinking yeah the we it goes back to moderation that we talked about. Some people <hes> not really good at. I know I'm not so <hes> it's probably best that we <hes> we just you know. Don't don't do one thing it's because we don't know how outta how to manage it. Yeah Yeah so tell me about tell me about your story. What got you to write this book? What what was the WHO's a catalyst sure sure Charlie I <hes> I had lived hard art after I I <hes> was fired from from Howard <hes> <hes> I was <hes> always it was always a challenge depression was always bad and I was? I guess Kinda <hes> brought up with my my father was an old school guy that you don't get depressed. It's <hes> you know that just being being blue or something like that but you know you pick yourself up and you do you gotta do there's no there's no such thing as depression and I don't. I love him. <hes> I always well but <hes> in that's how he was brought up. So how do I blame him for that exact. No you can't blame see that as we know that's the worst thing thing you can do you. You're not you're now. You're not dealing with your issue. It becomes somebody else's issue so you were raised by father. Who is who is tough? How out of that impact here <hes> he would do anything thing for his family he would do anything for me? I know that he loves me and he did the best that he could so I consider myself very lucky <hes> but as I told you before for some reason I've always been ingrate and I had two parent that loved me very much and there's no you know I I think there's really no excuse me to have ended up the way that I did. It's only it's due to mental illness and that's that's not really a joke. Even though we'll make plenty of jokes about got it that you know my mental illness because it's a lot easier to laugh than cry right yeah yeah and sometimes better yeah I believe so so <hes> you know after a while I just I got <hes> so tired of being disappointed. And <hes> being the sick and and <hes> and you know slowly <hes> drinking myself to death at that point I <hes> I wanted to be around positive people like you said you hanging out with the wrong people after you had what seventeen nineteen years or something twelve years yeah twelve years and the people that you were around kind of that's what not didn't make you do it but no no we played cards and that's what they did. They had wine and I said all oh shoot. You know I can have a glass of wine right right the that that right there. Is You know just like <hes> I I can relate to you because we tell us these things we can do but we can't do them so <hes> I <hes> I wanted to be around positive people I I found that some some of the best people I haven't met my life. We're not celebrities. They weren't you know athletes or whatever they were normal. People and everybody has story so I created a radio station around it and <hes> started with. I think maybe to listen is probably my mom and <hes> I don't know maybe somebody I knew a friend or something like that but now we're in ninety six countries and <hes> syndicated on <hes> F._M.. Radio and it's only no kidding. That's amazing. That's that's that's huge. Thanks Charlie it's because of being around positive people and not not getting into all the negativity that you see everyday. People don't want to hear that stuff. I don't WanNa hear it and it it affects you so I wanna be around people that data good I I like talking to you and I love talking to all the people that I interviewed and made simply amazing the book with so you guys <hes> that's what this book is about. It's <hes> it's just it's about people who's got a story and it's GonNa in the first. The first story doesn't affect you go to the next one then go to Lido Mason who's a a guy who grew up on the streets and who was destined to be dealing drugs in a gang but somehow found something inside of himself. It didn't take that past. <hes> got a college education. <hes> was an athlete now. <hes> was <hes> in law enforcement and is helping <hes> teams <hes> at at risk kids. I mean these stories that they're going to bring you up. They're not gonNA make you say. I don't like this place. You know that is really that Israel. You read you write a lot about about about hope and inspiration and and you know what you're talking about this this man that you know somewhere somewhere he caught a glimpse of hope and he got inspired to do something different and I really do believe that's you know without getting to religious here. I do believe that's an intervention mention of God that that somehow comes in but then what I can't explain why knee and not somebody else right. We'll have to wait for that one but but it sounds like you know I think you know what I think Casey. I think we're brothers because <hes> I suffer from depression as well and so so we're GonNa you know we can come here with you. Say you know which okay which drugs do you take so. Let me ask you something with being having the background that we both have here. I take <hes> I'm not I say I take out of him. which is law Raza Pan for these panic attacks anxiety yeah yeah are are you able to take something like something for your anxiety or yes yes I can and and and I have no no problem with addiction to pills you know so I can take pills and you know I take I take so loft and and <hes> and I will take I will take Zanex Times said about a van? I've tried both and preferred <hes> Zanex and <hes> I will. I will take them before like you know before or anything. I'm I'M GONNA put myself in a position to where anxiety could attack. I'll take I in that way. Just sort of preventative yeah and you know sometimes it's it's. I don't think it's a it's a bad ask like you know doctors. I'm not saying all of them do the right thing but <hes> I think for the most part they're trying to help and some people have this thing where the medication but other people don't <hes> so whatever it works for you and life is not always easy and <hes> we have a lot of you know demons and <hes> we have everybody has their own struggles and challenges and what may work for me may not work for you. So who's the judge. You know who who's to say <hes> this is <hes> this is not right. Are you shouldn't be doing this or do this. I just I guess in my old age here Charlie. I'm noticing that you know there's no the only person that's going to judge or not a person but the only thing say thing but the only judgment I'm worried about is <hes> something bigger than me. If you know what I'm talking about yeah I know she talking about except except I'm <hes> I I believe so much in the cross believe in so much forgiveness. I don't even worry about it that it's forgiven is taking care of and it's already been covered and I you know I just live the best I can play the cards that then dealt with and and see what comes out well that makes sense to me and Charlie I this is your show but <hes> you asked me about <hes> Legal Mason the Joan. I talked about before I it's. It's pretty amazing like <hes> if if down the road let me know if you WanNa hear what he had to tell me because that's something that I I heard and it really had an effect he's talking about watching what he saw in the ghetto and it's really kind of a <hes>. Maybe at the end if you have time we'll play that yeah you know what we might do. Can you pull up part of his interview yeah I have. I have a clip ready. If you WANNA hear what we'll do we may <hes> we may close with that when we come to that grabbed all right as we do that I think we're both in a way I don't want to say encouragement to other people but but we are able to show other people there is there is a way out <hes> of these mental told diseases and these mental things that that really caused you to do strange things there is there is a way out soon medication through therapy through through the intervention of God my producer just saying talking positively that that is that you know and and he's right on without and I believe that do and that's that's kind of what we like. You just got back from Uganda what you would tell me before and I think by doing that. It gives you the sense that we've maybe we didn't can have growing up. We didn't for some reason the chemically we didn't have that sense of of goodness about ourselves. Yes other people <hes> something about that is is pretty cool and I know for fact that this this book and <hes> My radio station. I think you do the same thing it helps people and I'm very proud of that and I'm sure you ought to. That's the only thing that I do it for you know I. I don't make any money at it. I do it. I do it. You know for two do things for fun because I enjoy it but I am here. Every job I've ever had has been a service job. You know where I have done you know as I've been a coach and a manager in a leader in even as a manager in a leader viewed my job was to serve the people that work for me to to help them enjoy their job and do their job better and it was <hes> it was all about is all about being nice. The one the first one where you talked about where the the man for Mash Switch Zhao switch talked about being very nice to other people. You know you know that thing in the Bible said you know where Jesus is asking to where the most important things and and he says <hes> <hes> Love Your Love God love your neighbor and and in the closet everybody forgets love yourself and you know you just cannot love other people. You love other people to the degree that you love yourself. That's pretty you know that's <hes> that's very important thought right there and yeah I definitely can relate to that and and and I tell I tell people there's really important things we use. The word love. Alaba loves a twenty five sent word that means homebound a whole bunch but you know what's easy. I just say if if you just love God and you'd be nice you're Kinda done. It's you know like that's that's kind of just be nice. It's not funny that that that's you know we played. That's what that's what the the man who was tortured shirt and humiliated and <hes> you know made to feel less than and that's the thing that he said he said be nice to other people have to what he's been through so look you know what you said is. <hes> I mean if I I'm a big venues from what you've been telling me well. The the feeling is very mutual. Why don't you play that? Why don't you play that last clip and then we'll we'll close up the show and <hes> and do me a favor and and hang on after we end ended up the show no doubt that so so <hes> Charlie thanks for having me on and this is Lido Mason from the book simply amazing? If anybody wants to go out and purchase it <hes> you can go to w N._A._p.. Radio DOT COM it's available on Barnes and noble <hes> Amazon Go W._B._Z.. Radio DOT COM and just click the link <hes> so charlie and send me send me all that information so I can put it in the show notes. You got you got it. I will and I had a great time Charlie I in <hes> I'd like yeah. Come on if you if you would it'd be an honor awesome all right so this is a leader Mason. He's chat. They're five. I believe in rose above is environment in the project surrounded by drugs violence and sexual predators uses athletic town to stay in school <music> Secure College Scholarships and become a mentor of a high risk youths when it something different I thought saw when you see so much bad stuff like I remember ever child is due getting shot when he went to do the projects shot in the head and he still running back porch and so you see this stuff around you and you just you gotta think that man this can't be light so I mean from the time traceless hostile to detrimental be my life. I couldn't stay that I could not stay in my town because I have you too. Many people and I was GONNA get sucked in the rollaway right and that's in there so I was just determined. I stopped getting in trouble not to go back down that road but I can tell you always had an excuse to if I wanted to you excuse and I just when they got excuse I invite you all to go to simply amazing DOT COM pick up simply amazing October twenty seven that was incredible. What a great? What a great story about not using an excuse and also there's something that we didn't talk about? Maybe another time we can talk about nets determination. I really do believe in self determination that <hes> you make up your mind. You're going to do something and you do it. I'm with you and that's the throughout these challenges. It was already talked about this book out but it's out and everybody will get it phone. Well Casey. Thank you so much for being a guest on my show. Today's been it's really been fun and and I also WanNa thank all our listeners for tuning into the next chapter with Charlie and be sure to check us out on her website and that's the next chapter dot in life l. i. f. e. and until next this is Charlie hedges signing off by now.

Charlie Casey Armstrong Charlie hedges Uganda Africa Howard Stern Charlie Paul strayer university Lido Mason Amazon California depression Barnes Education strayer university Charlie I Joe Montana UNICEF Donald
#136 Dena Crowder: Inner Power Craves Purpose

OC Talk Radio

50:14 min | 1 year ago

#136 Dena Crowder: Inner Power Craves Purpose

"Welcome everybody's time once again for the next chapter Sir with Charlie hedges as he explores turning the page on his life. And Your Charlie Paul so What's up does he talk radio today? Well we're getting ready for the holidays and We take our one week off. So we're looking forward to that between Christmas and New Year's and launching again not just in a new year in the new decade. Oh it isn't a decade and then I take two weeks off because I I record on Wednesday which is Christmas and New Year's right. You're gonNA miss so I have I have I have two weeks off two weeks reflecting get ready for the new decade. Yes yes and as a matter of fact the podcast we're doing today will be the first podcast of the year next year and arrested the decade than you may the first of the decade. Yes and I am excited to have with this once again. My personal life coach Dina crowder Dina is amazing after working together for two years. Now I can't think of anyone that has impacted my life in the ways. Dina crowder has our wisdom is them inside truly equals that what I consider of sages and I don't think it's an overstatement now. The last time I was on the show we talked about a dealing with our inner critic. Well today were taking sort of the opposite direction and we're going to talk about our inner power and how our inner power craves purpose. I can't wait to get into this subject and I in fact it was the topic of our last enormously normally impactful coaching session. I just have so much to learn. From Dina for those of you don't know Dina crowder as a high-performance strategist and chief chiefs spiritual officer for creators leaders. She has designed innovative programs for prison. Parolees judges associations nations. CEO's CNN Heroes Emmy and Grammy Award winners as well as executives for many organizations the likes of which include Nike Disney Nestle and Fox now in addition most recently tena had the rare honour to give a presentation at a Ted x conference. That was so highly received that she shoe received a standing ovation which is really quite unusual? Her topic naturally was on power. In fact Dina's on a mission to revolutionize the way the world understands relates to power. Her aim is to redefine power so that we use it for good Dina believes though I love this and I may repeat it. DNA believes that pure power is the capacity to directly influence and manage your life with wisdom and compassion. It is the capacity to directly influence and manage your life with wisdom and compassion in other words. It's all about power to not power over her. I just I love those ideas. Edina welcome once again in the next chapter with Charlie Charlie. Hello it's good to be back. I feel like I'm back home. You you just have such an inviting boys no wonder we can. We can talk so much It's just fun to hear you talk Tummy now. You just did Ted ex experience you your address for your clothes where so you'll have to. I know you've done post on the people have to see the outfit. You're which was amazing and your presentation was Zeke's were equally as good. Want you tell me a bit about that tech's experience. Oh thank you Charlie You know I have to share that. The outfit was the result of a collaboration between myself. And one of my clients is that incredible really is is incredible because it was. It was a stunning of that. And yet and yet understated wasn't overstated by any means but it was just it was really. It's really good. Well it it's fascinating because the outfit or the style that you're talking about comes comes out of as I said a collaboration and collaboration between myself and the client this client when I first began working with with her a couple of years ago was in education and she's still is but we discovered that she had buried a passion. I for clothing for fashion for styling and that in the course of US getting to know one another through me. Coaching her She rediscovered reawakened this passion and came out Charlie that she had gone to Fashion College. I mean and just forgotten about it for God just put it in the closet and The part of her purpose part of her inner power connection turned out to be something she called divine filing which is working with leaders eaters who have something positive thing to Have Their dial or outfit match the frequency gene of their message. She teaches school. Same time yes. She still a schoolteacher and yet she opened this MHM consulting business on the side as an expression of passion and an expression of her purposeful service. mm-hmm so important that skirted bitcoin to lead into our topic. In one thing I have to say you are brilliant at helping people discover uh hidden talents or hidden areas of expertise or passions desires. That have been locked up for years ears and you you have a methodology that she uses. It's not just by. It's not accidentally that you come up with the help us. Discover these sorts sorts of things and it is your talent but I liked that that you told you spoke of her of her passion for design resonating with her inner power. And so I wanna say I so resonate with the truth that you that you put out interpower not only craves purpose. I love the verb crave that interpower craves purpose. But I also believe that interpower cannot even function without purpose. It's it's it's not even truly functional the there's an aberration to it a few days ago. You told me that purpose purpose activates power. I I like that and and to me. That's the reason power-crazed purpose because it craves active activation activation. Can you talk to me a bit about that. Because I think that's so important it's like the people are often looking for repurpose. They're seeking it they. They're off they feel lost without it and you asked about the PEX. That's one of the things I cover in the PUCK Tuck. I speak about the incredible research that has been done by leading experts in medicine in psychiatry tree in bio behavior in psychology that demonstrate win. We don't feel we're contributing eating meaningfully. When we don't feel we're on purpose our immune systems suffer our physical bodies buffer are the fake logical state suffers and in fact our genetic pattern really replicate those same patterns patterns that are seen with people who are enduring chronic adverse threat? Think about that from Omen. And that means we're wired for purpose and yet we're so often speaking it in a way that is detrimental detrimental and doesn't lead us to connect to it. Because we're looking for what I call the Ten Commandments. You like the the joke God walks into a bar and and you're just sitting in the bar and this God says hey. Here's here's here's your manual. Here's Your Ten Commandments. And everything's mapped out for you. Everything is decreed the outcome is guaranteed guaranteed. Why do we like that so much? That fantasy will because it means we don't have to risk anything it it means you don't have to show up when we don't know exactly how things are going to go are when we don't know the outcome when the terrain rain is on certain and of course that means we're not actually participating in living life those they're dead persons fantasies dead persons goal to just be sitting around and some Divine Messenger comes down and hands you everything you need canal. That's that's why he as you took me through the archetype. SARLA archetypes was explorer and which has to do with curiosity and that it is not sitting around waiting but exploring and searching and looking and and some kind of endeavor ever to find purpose meaning joy expression and receptivity which Whoa I hope we talk about later but we we have to be open and receptive to sources ideas concepts behaviors. That have been taboo to us and yet once we get into them we discover how much they really really need to us. I think I think I'm I'm I'm thinking of The very legalistic type of religions that really the prohibit people from getting in to deepen their soul in finding out what God in and and and I mean that in the G. Jio sense what God has in mind for these people but but it reminds me of it reminds me of of education education. You know an infant is in an exploration style and we began with adolescents. And move on to do some sort of some sort of Detailed constructed education but we never get out of that. We never moved from childhood into adolescence. To where we're thinking on our own to adulthood were the avian on our own and the toll head were were bathing or of behaving wisely Ashley on our own and were stuck in what no. I can't even remember the author's name at ticks me off every time who talks about secondhand trues we. I believe in second hand truths at somebody else's telling us what our purposes what are meaning is and this is where we need to be doing and yet it negates all the passion doesn't it But because we just talked about that idea that power grace purpose and our activate purpose you do well. Let's go back to that when we talk about inner power. I'm really speaking about connecting to your spirit and that is the theon dogma. It beyond religion is simply the place where the deepest part of you connect with the deepest part of life. And when you're connected there you feel alive you feel connected with life but also with the universe percents with all of the other forms of life. That are moving in and about us when we're in that place right eight and we're connected to this inner power. It's like the buzz and we do exactly what you just said. We begin something. We're open to the clues that life is sending us and we start. We put our feet on a pass and as we go along on this path we get an clue that tells us to adjust and so we go a little to the right up now. We go a little to the left. Now we climb Emma Mountain. Now we come down the mountain we actually are engaged with living rather than sitting around and saying. I wish I knew my purpose. I wish I knew my purpose. That's not actually what's happening with actually happening is that we straitjacketed our purpose. which you mentioned and alluded to when you're talking about how we're stuffing down passion? Where's the straitjacketing? Uh our purpose. It cannot be liberated enough to make it really known to us are because we have this tight container meaner in our minds of what our purpose needs to be it needs to fit into that is close it needs to fit into the values. We've been conditioned to accept that the first question That we have to ask ourselves if we want to and that to this inner power and activate our purpose by taking a first step on a path is the after so am I willing to practice radical article defiant of what I've been told value and prioritize. Were to find word. Am I willing to say no to some of the things that our culture as said give us any value like an expensive pair of shoes news or a handbag or a certain kind of salary. There's nothing wrong with those things but are are we pinning our innate value are you are missing. Acknowledge the same thing. I'm concerned thing force for power exactly forces and out an external force I believe it was meister. Eckhart talked about spirituality is more about subtraction. Addition it's about getting rid of those things you know those secondhand beliefs that are are running our lives yet. We are levy leading discontented and virtual virtually purposeless lives. I know you're taking me through the six principles of power and one of the principal was power requires. Connectivity is end a ride. Yeah that's the first one is. It requires connection. You gotta get connected. And we're we're walking around disconnected. We don't feel the flow power. Charlie you would be except cry at how many people have titles positions degrees fancy Spanish headers etc and yet when I speak with them and realize oh my goodness I'm really disconnected from anti my own agency my own power. I'm disconnected from my own passion. My own inner power. They feel disconnected from being on purpose. They may have eight huge salary and maybe baby written up in all of the though call important media of the day and on TV. But yet. When I think with them they realized and I don't even know if I'm contributing meaningfully unfortunately under this stress daily we're not feeling good heartbroken and the first step is? Oh my gosh I gotta get connected precisely and you know what what concerns this me. Is that so many of us in Neon. I can only speak of the United States so many of us don't even think in these terms terms it's not even you know they accept the status quo so so easily. It's what makes Kamakura AC- work you. No you can't you can't challenge it. Just go along with. And that's what makes a whole thing work and yet to have what we would consider a a truly purposeful a meaningful life means we have to depart from the status quo and we have to exit as not dachshund but enter as you called risky areas of our life scary areas. Even there's places that you've taken. It took me last this week. There was a scary area. It was it was a part that actually frightened to me but I knew as soon as it frightened me and I knew as as soon as I had pushed back on it we were on the right track. I knew right away as soon as I'm pushing back on the right road we're on we're on the right road. What if I don't like this road? It must be the right road. That's why Scott Peck called the road. Less traveled because the road more traveled is the easy road. Oh the the God coming in and handing you the ten commandments of your life or instead got a gut commit came in and handed you a template separate says your life is what you choose to be and I believe in concert with the way created you with the way you've DNA DNA. You were created to do a broad spectrum of things it's not. It's not very narrow but it's a broad spectrum of thing and so I I I I really like. It was one of the questions that I that I had. We were going to do later. But we're doing right now and that is talking about you talking about the connection with the spirit. I want to talk. LemMe see do I want it to. I WanNa take a break or do I want to get into this because this is going to be quite lengthy I think I think perhaps we should take a break because I have quite a bit to say on this. Okay uh-huh This is Charlie hedges. You're listening to the next chapter. After which are Lee. And our very special guest I performance consultant and chief spiritual guru of highly creative and productive people. And we're talking about power and we're talking about inner power now not not not necessarily power over situations and people although it does apply but inner power Craig's purpose and and we're talking that one of the things you need to do that is important is to connect with your spirit and that is oh so difficult to do and I I hear the question. The I hear the question for my listeners. Our listeners that are saying as you asked earlier Outta I know what my purposes I mean Ottawa. Even go about finding it. I've been looking for my purpose. Half my life and so many people are wrestling with that. Do you have any suggestions. I know I have a couple ideas but I I really want yours before the break. We talked about her mission to say no radical defiant of what we've been taught to value and prioritize. I WanNa give you an example. I had a client who ooh with in an extremely high position in the world of tech and this particular client was and not happy. I'm not happy I I hate what I'm doing. I don't like it I. I know it's time for me to move on. It's something else as clear as those words sound to us and founded to this client. There was no movement comment. There was no action client continued day after day month after month to remain in a position. That was hurtful was damaging and so on and so forth. Now what's going on here was very clear. I I'm not contributing meaningfully here. I don't like it it. It's it's making me sick. Well what's going on there. Is there was a complete unwillingness to stay no to the values that ah that individual had been taught to value and prioritize and one of the values was your only okay if you are working for a big huge name brand and company if you leave and you you go to a smaller company if you leave and you start something of your own if you leave and you become a consultant any number of possibilities That this person could have followed. You're not valuable. You're not okay and there there we are. It's not that the client didn't understand what the next step was. We talked about that before. The break. The permission And then the willingness to say okay. I'm going to value my design. I'M GONNA value my my spirit how I made what I was put here to do. The radical defiant to say no to what the the the old values it is in relationship to our egos defiance of why we were put here in the first place so that client would sing being unconsciously of course but this is what it boils down to. I'm paying lip service to purpose but I really don't care as much about fat as I care what other people think of me. I really don't care as much about my contribution and why I'm really here and what I'm here to do you and I care about people thinking that I'm important in the hierarchy of status. You know I so I so agree with that one thing I might suggest instead of you saying no to certain things I found it helpful to say. I don't know oh I no longer know so. I'm open to receive something different because everything is not necessarily know there may be some yeses is in there that are still good. Yeah but that I don't know in so I have to. I have to remain totally. Open that that everything. Everything is open for for evaluation and change if necessary and the things that are that are truly part of my intervene. My inner self. Those get to stay at least they're working on it. That's that's really that's really good. You know I think that's exactly right. You don't throw everything out. In an in the example I was using that client knew that that job was very detrimental and it was a fighting. They ended the fight that the debt finally it did happen and they moved on but it was a it was really a an inner battle at epic proportions. Dan Between the thought the Eagles thought of losing the status. And what that person taking the new I know you told me. Stories of of of people without naming people. But you told me stories about that. That have been quite intriguing. And they've been close to your family. People that have made those kinds of Changes that have really helped one of the things Dina that I have recently discovered. I just completed Ryan holidays. Stillness as the key and it's in it's all about peace serenity and he deals with the mind the spirit and the body that of all things. I thought the body would be the thing I was least interested in and it turned out to be the most interesting part of the book and and he's written two other books out out that I just can't recommend right holiday strongly enough to people that he's written a book. Titled Ego is the enemy and the obstacle is the way and then he's he's calling it a trilogy but you can read them in any order. One doesn't require reading the first one. That's why I've read the last one. I still says the key but one thing I learned from holiday is that one thing that is needed to discover your inner purpose his to make time for solitude serenity and reflection to allow your inner voice to to speak at requires and art of listening rather than telling or even are pressed desperate asking. Oh tell me my purpose because because most of the time it sneaks in when you're not even looking but merely reflecting her. What do you think about Boca way agree with it? Absolutely and in fact it's always trying to communicate with you is is communicating in with burs. It's communicating in shout. It is leaving clues everywhere in the form of love repeating pattern in the form of synchronicity. Even in the form of some of our biggest disappointment yes yes yes absolutely because that informed so much of a set. Yes one of the things that I do every year at the end of the year. The the number. I'm doing this now. Client is we have a year end review. No I never go tell on you charlie. I was guy was not giving that away but the in the year in review one of the questions is what. Were your your biggest disappointments this year. people like some people are dive right in others like to avoid it because they falsely. You think the disappointments I avoid thinking about them then. I won't have to feel that the pain I won't have to feel the disappointment. It's actually actually very wrong. Because the more they disconnected from connecting remember power begins with connection the morning he disconnected from really feeling the disappointment. The more they carry that burden basket of those disappointments into the new year. You're in probably will repeat them. What we WANNA do is listen so that we can allow the full wisdom that arises from the disappointment? It's like what is the lesson from disappointment. What is the wisdom that if you really sat with the disappointment you you can peak and then take that with them into the next year so you don't have to repeat like a hamster wheel hamster on wheel the same disappointment and this brings us back to your question about the stillman and the reflection? That's an example Film illness and reflection. That's an example of the clues if we can simply take time take some time to you. Do those types of reflections to ask ourselves and make a list would include in the universe sending me what what what am I hearing repeated again and again and you write those down you will see a sign post that says this way made not that away and you can take your first step you know it it. It re one thing it requires is it's not It's not haphazard hazard. I have discovered in order for me to have these times Solitude serenity reflection requires discipline and for me different people it's different ways and different turns but for me it's in the morning and I have about an hour and a half every morning I get up so you know I'm I'm functioning by nine o'clock nine thirty but I have an hour and a half uh-huh eating a certain way of meditating a spiritual reading of journaling where just let these things out and and there are times especially at meditation that twenty to thirty minutes of total silence and and letting letting my inner self speak to myself self so I think I think one point it in order to get to that place that does require discipline. It doesn't happen accidentally that it has to become something that is important to you. Knowing your purpose is not haphazard it is a it is an intentional effort would. Would you agree with that. I agree it is intentional. And one of the words that I like to offer people Instead of discipline what sometimes freaks people out in devotion or even desire because when people think think of discipline there. Oh I can't I don't or they have these nightmares about nuns in school. And it's like okay. Well what are you devoted to. What are you devoted to because when you? Ken acknowledged and connect. There's our word again to what it is that that you're devoted to Then that can give you the IMF and the motivation to be consistent with whatever ever that the practices are and whatever this success structures are that are going to support you in taking the next step in the next nextstep and evolving accelerating and moving higher that and when I say desires the same you could ask yourself itself okay. We'll devotion doesn't work for me. Discipline doesn't work for me but desire myself. What do I really dire and not what anybody else wants for me? Not what somebody else as you were saying. says I should be but what do I desire fire and when you can connect to that you have you have in awakening of energy and a passion and that can that can see through. Oh you know I I I have two important comments and there because you said you said many wonderful the things one thing about discipline I like devotion but in a you know a words work for me. This is what works for me. I can't say it's going to work for anybody else. But instead of discipline I develop a routine or ritual. So it's not it's not like a discipline like Jaakko Willik. WHO's a highly early decorated seal one of the most highly decorated? CL's said discipline is freedom. That is true but discipline such negative connotations to it. That's why y you know really successful people all have I just read a piece on Winston Churchill and he was he had his routines his his is is ritual. His Day was ritually established. The way he the way he lived his day and look Winston Churchill. I mean perhaps as the most I accomplish person of the twentieth century I think he certainly GonNa fit in the top five. That's that that's for truth And then and then I wanted to say that and then you talk about something else that I really think was important. I wanted to get onto and you were talking about you talking about in your second part. Both of his can't bring on there. I don't know but when when you were you. You mentioned earlier about status quo and about democracy and even you know society functioning because people accept their roles and yet we you and I totally live in a country that was founded by people. Fool had a the about defiant radicals defiant against the status quo of what governments before them had been to Europe deficit and said we've got a refresh. We've got a refresh. We've got to have a revolution every few years and he was hoping that it. It didn't require bloodshed but I think we we had a very big understanding that we always have to be in in the process of exploring of being curious and asking. Okay what's my contribution. Now how things things need to change. How do I need to update because they were updating everything that they'd been conditioned to value and prioritize oh any created the victim and that leads me to to thinking of a thing I heard by comedian Seth Meyers Tires and he said of Jefferson? Were to come back today at all the conversation the Constitution and say you mean you guys have an added any shit in the two hundred years left it the same way. Don't you know we were just thinking what was necessary then times of change you. It's time to to review this. I've always gotten a kick out of that I wanted I want to change something that I'm I'm not even sure that it exactly has to do with we will. We're talking about but I think it's so important for me to tell a story about What impact solitude and serenity and reflection of come upon me and that is an perhaps DNA the the the last three years and you and I talked quite frankly about this? I have reached much clarity on my inner purrs on my inner purpose by what I'm calling the invasion of my feminine news some call it the divine feminine I know she is of God and and and I wrote to you that she has a rock solid softness which is you know sort of sort of contradictory but but there is. There's a softness to her but at the same time It is it is it is rock rock solid and it has probably really made as most as much impact on my life as anything that I thought of before that my leadership style. Oh is still have the male part of the strength of leadership but compassion empathy care of people the way I present materials thinking and the thinking in the feminine has completely changed the way I attempt to influence. Let's people and I tend to. I don't want to say exert power but but use power positive ways and and and and and. I think there's much of that you know. We have the women's movement but the Women's movement is really copying the men's movement is and and and and I believe in the female being the female and that female aspect and I think we both have carry both of those genders with them Emma's to some degree and that feminine is so powerful for me and what what do you what do you make of that. I'm going to. They things that are stereo. Typical or kind of putting things into one big category even though there's a lot more nuance but I'm going to do that. That for the sake of the conversation and feminine is associated in this kind of stereotypical way With receiving receiving it is associated with the ability to to perceive and to hold and also with compassion. Those that would be considered a a feminine capital asset value. Does that main that men don't receive. Don't have the capacity for compassion. Absolutely not because each person as you've just described has both both feminine and Masculine Traits So we're this is obviously quite simplistic but it helps us to have the conversation and we are steeped in in this culture of power over and what power over. That's where there's dominator and dominated there's a ruler and a ruled old. We have internalized that system as the norm that we don't even see it. It's the water we swim in the air we breathe. We don't even notice that it's going on but it is by you or anyone getting in touch with what we are calling the feminine effeminate qualities the goddess within. That's so trendy and Cliche but again I think we know what we're talking about out here. What then happens is there's an ability to step away from the automatic capitule power over way of being and to integrate these other things into our inner power system so that we actually are way more powerful than we were when we were simply practicing what we would call the masculine trait which are doing? Yeah doing and kind of external building and and moving those are the masculine traits and our culture of power over that has been distorted is functioning running on a distorted masculine principle feeling. That doesn't have compassion that doesn't value with them and what would happen then. Is You lose engagement. Empowerment you you lose people being excited about following a leader of its power over. It's just who I've gotTa do this to keep my job. I've gotTa do this to do a task task rather than I'm part of the solution in my my value as a human being is appreciated. And I'm getting to use my talents balance because they are appreciated. I don't have to hold them back. Okay there's one thing I think I think it's time to it close There is one thing I wanNA go back to. The we talked a way back. But it's it's a big concern of mine elway's where we're talking about disappointments of the year one of the difficulties that I can face with breath. Disappointments and failures is shame and embarrassment and that is so difficult. No Oh and who wants to go there right. You just don't want to go to that place yet. It is a dark place that we entered the dark to see the light that the that there is you know as they say light at the end of the tunnel there's light coming out of the darkness there but but that shame and and embarrassment is so critical to face because there are times the things I said I may do that. I may consider shameful or embarrassing. That are embarrassing. Important things for me to do that. They are actually okay. Hey in my set of values but I'm listening to secondhand beliefs again away. Yeah well well. It's it's been said that. Shame and this is Bernie Brown. Who's quite popular right now? Even has a special in that flicks talked thoughts about shame being the feeling or belief that who I am as bad and guilt is what I did was bad so when we talking talking about making a mistake or doing something and then we're not doing something and then saint. Gosh I feel ashamed. That in her understanding some kind of flavor of who I am is that and that feels awful but let me take that hat further. I what I see. Is that when that whole thing is happening what we do. Is We disconnect you you think that who you are as bad or sometimes even if it's guilt and you think oh what I did was so bad. You don't feel worthy of staying connected to your spirit. You don't feel worthy of having your purpose be unclear meaningful because you've already judge yourself and sentenced yourself to this punishment. The of unworthiness connection being the first principle of power. The first thing that we have to attend to win you we notice. I'm feeling feeling really bad. I'm feeling like I messed up. Feeling like a made a mistake. I'm feeling ashamed. I'm feeling guilty. Oh my I sort of business is to connect act and how ever you do that whether you connect through prayer whether you connect through meditation whether you have a A buddy that that you get into regular accountability that you helped with each other's goals all of these things work but the thing thing is you have to remember nothing work if you're not willing to get connected I for that is that is that is brilliant Perot yet in it and it. It means it means sort of sort of fighting the fair Of that in order to receive insightful results like what I was saying. You don't necessarily have to say no you have to say I don't know in that at that I don't know has to do with shame and guilt and embarrassment that I don't know that I really did shameful things. They may not in my DNA god-given value system they may not be shameful activities liberties although socially they could be saying shameful activities. Kelly I was told many years ago when I began on this path to helping others. I was told by a very close family member. It it would be better if you're a heroin addict. Because treatment for that I was told by another very close family member. Oh my God this is just the most embarrassing thing ever. You're what do I tell my friend. I was mocked by another family member. I was told by someone who was interested in dating me that I would never ever succeed. I was told by someone else who was interested in dating me that I was a dangerous woman because I I might be responsible for. Having women disagree with their husbands on certain ideas if I had them going into self reflection selection and that's just the beginning of all of the belief that were thrown at me and some of them did sting and some of them did bring forth feeling me of internalizing or an experience of internalizing. Some of the the shame or our whole will the doubt. Oh I mean is it really. I mean and and so I had to practice when I'm preaching with connection and empowers it empowers us and so we simply have to let go and offer those things up and then keep coming back to the plaintiff connection again and again and that connection is what drives us to our purpose. Yes and our inner power for this purpose. Yeah the vehicle you're suggesting not but but and vehicle suggesting is connection with our spirit. Yes that is correct. Dina we death linked to talk for hours. It is is always so inviting to talk with you. Thank you thank you so much for this time together. I was away from the MIC for a while. There I was had my eyes closed. I was thinking I so appreciate you and everything you do. Thank you for spending time with me today. I am always defender offender. Will you the great. And I'll see you a see you on Saturday for our our zoom year in yet you in square use video or audio and video. Oh my goodness okay. That's enough of that. Well I think our listeners tuning into the next chapter with Charlie and be sure to check us out at our website the next chapter dot light until next acts this is Charlie hatches signing off by for now.

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#195 Vicki Znavor: Authenticity ReAwakened

OC Talk Radio

46:21 min | 3 months ago

#195 Vicki Znavor: Authenticity ReAwakened

"Welcome everybody time once again for the next chapter with charlie hedges as he explores turning the page on his life and your today i feel that i show is perhaps one of our best and oddly enough it's on a subject that some may view as a rather tired subject that we talk a lot about authenticity and we've talked about an hour show but i've got to tell you vicki's neighbor and her new book. Authenticity reawakened provide enormously valuable insight into how to live a meaningful and purposeful life to really brilliant material as you will see in our discussion vicky and her book offer not only excellent content but also very fascinating and intriguing personal discovery exercises. That will be fun for you to do. After hearing vicki's neighbor you will be absolutely clear on the value of personal authenticity and why it is so essential to one. No who you really are to to know what matters to you in a major way and three to know how to bring that self into the world vicky offers brilliant suggestions for living a brilliant life. So with that. That's bring on vicki's neighbor a vicki's naver welcome to the next chapter with charlie. Thanks so much charlie. It's great to be with you tonight. I really appreciate the invitation. Yeah it it it is going to be fun and and Today you know what i wanna do vicky. Is i to spend time talking about your really. You're you're very relevant new book This authenticity awaken. And it has the subtitle of the path to owning your life story and fulfilling your purpose i think. That's that's quite hefty topic that i'm excited about talking about. I was excited to write about it. Did it just flow and come out or was it a year long process. What was that process like. Well the entire process took about seven months. And i would say that it once i was able to develop an outline from beginning to end and you most of us have written papers either for high school or college And it's the same kind of process you sit down. You write an outline. You think about what you're going to What your purpose for the for the book is and then you basically breakdown chapter by chapter and then you said about writing and writing is a challenge. Only because you've got to really make sure that you keep your reader in mind. Who is your ideal reader. And it's much like what you do with your show charlie that you're thinking about your audience when you're putting pen to paper when you're talking to your audience on your on your show and it's the same with a book but it is a wonderful process of discovery. Learn a lot about yourself. I certainly learned a lot about myself. As i was as i was writing it and ultimately i think i put out a work that i'm really proud of. I'm so happy for you. So let's let's talk about your work. Let's let's begin with an overview and You know what. I'm curious about Will define authenticity and just a bit but tell me what is it that awakened your authenticity personally here so actually the title is authenticity reawakened. Thought i'm so sorry. Forgive me because that. That seemed and i looked at my notes and i had a i thought. Oh well this is. This is what happens when you get back from uganda and you try to do work. Yeah no worries at. All you know in a reawakening is just multiple awakening so You know what the reason why use the the word reawakened in the title of authenticity. And i know we're going to dig into the definition of authenticity in a moment. But the reason i did that is that we who we are changes over our lifetime so who we are at fifteen or ten you know when we go to twenty five thirty five forty five. We have different experiences in life and as we get more experiences as we do more reflection on the kind of person that we are in the values that we hold yearly. We continue to learn more about who we truly are and over a lifetime. If we're blessed enough to have a long life we get closer and closer to understanding what our true purpose was to. Why are we here and What was most important to us to achieve. So this is why you know. I think that You know understanding who you are is so important but it is an iterative process. So you've gotta constantly stay in touch with yourself and understand what's really important to you and if you don't mind i actually just dive into what the definition of authenticity is because it may give us that that commentary a little bit more context shoe so i believe that authenticity is knowing who you are knowing what truly matters to you and then showing up in the world in a way that reflects that to the extent that you wish to do so so i'll go back now with with that in context in mind you know knowing who you are and knowing what matters most to you is something that we continue to learn over time. Yeah is it. You know. I agree with you. I saw because it was a was actually a question that i had a later. So i'm glad we're getting into it right now. And that is. I see it as a process and We can be true to who we are right now but we are evolving with growing. We're growing people. So who i am right now may not be precisely who i am ten years from now in seventy one years old. I'm able to count back and see that. I was true to who i was at that time but today i'm a bit of a different person you know. It's not that those things don't count but but newer things have emerged and caught my attention but so we are. It is an iterative process. Like that phrase that you use. It is an iterative process of growth. Yes but you know what will happen is if we don't do these check ins and reawakening if you will that lice gets a hold of you you know i'll sort of us an example when you're in your twenties you're you're trying to make a name for yourself in whatever it is that you do for a career you're acquiring things you're possibly getting married and and and that kind of thing and life kinda gets a hold of use such that people start telling you what you're really good at what you should do and what you should think about doing. And gosh. it's it's great to make you know great money and and some of these things and you start starts chipping away as who you are because he get lost in all of that. There's a business if you will. That goes along with certain periods of our lives. And if you don't check in with yourself it's easy to sort of get swept away and all of that and before you know it you look in the mirror and you're not really sure you recognize that person anymore. Really good thinking I what what are these. I guess curious. What are the check ins. Look like is there. Do you create a list that you match against this list to see my true to that or or is it is it more more Fluid well in in my book. I offer a couple of suggestions for the reader. The first one i would say is you. Don't need a checklist or anything but periodically if you stand in front of the mirror. Let's say that you've been experiencing sleepless nights and you have been feeling really like a heavy weight on your shoulders Those are symptoms that. Perhaps you're getting away from who you truly are so when that happens you know stand in front of a mirror and look deeply into your eyes and ask yourself who am i and wait for a response to come back to you. So sometimes our ego will get involved in that and there's all kinds of great work on ego but when the ego gets involved in all of that you might hear something back that says. You're you're awesome charlie. You're doing it all right and if you hear a whole lot of that it's probably again you know sort of check your ego. Say okay wait a second. Let's quiet that down a little bit and think and think to yourself really. Who am i. Am i showing up in the world in the way. That really matters to me to answer that question. I walked reader through. The first is when i talked earlier about knowing who you are so i believe that we all have five to seven pivotal life moments. And i know you've talked about pivotal life moments to i believe In some of your in some of your work Pivotal life moment. Those moments that have truly made us who we are and again over time those mo we have more moments and we have more experiences than we change but thinking through who. That's who am i. And then i walked the reader through how to identify their personal values. What really matters to you. That's the values part. So you know. Let's just say that most of us would say honesty is really important to me. That's a personal value or my health is really important to me. That's a personal value or spending time with my loved ones. That's personal value. So let's just say Spending time with my loved ones is a personal value. And you're looking at yourself in the mirror and you ask yourself. Am i showing up the way i want. I want to for my loved ones and you can reflect you know. I haven't been here in two weeks or every time with my kids. I'm taking work calls or every time. I sit down with a significant other. I'm really too busy to listen. Or whatever it is that you know you would sort of reflect upon and nance when you you need to decide. You know if that's important truly a value showing up for people that i love and i'm not doing that. Then what do. I need to do differently. And how am i going to set up a set forward in terms of Creating some change in my life. So that i am here in a way that i want to be. Yeah i e you know you're you're right. You're you're driving down the lane that i drive down and part of that is self reflection and and for me. It's intentional times of quiet. And solitude of being and and you know vicki. I have them daily. And i'm pondering me in a context and I read i just read. Bless pasquale and sorn kirkuk guard on that subject in. Both of them said anybody that is not comfortable being alone to themselves. Really has no chance of growth Because that's when you you know the loneliness tells you your neediness and the the uncomfortable ness of solitude also tells you where your needs are and it just as grand reflection so i really like that reflective aspect that you bring to the table and thank you so much and you're right charlie. I mean in the world that we're in nowadays. Everything is fast. We have you know. High speed computers in the palm of our hands. Everything comes at us instantly makes us forget about the importance of just being alone with your thoughts but even if your situation is such that you're not choosing to be alone with your thoughts for whatever reason in the quiet of the night when you're trying to get a good night's sleep or when you're You know inevitably alone. You will get messages. That you really aren't showing up in a way that you fine truly fulfilling beneath the surface. Yeah i you know. I i'm trying to personalize it and and and i i. I'm always been sort of a reflective person. I know i had a job one time that was actually when i was a minister and i just said it just hit me. I didn't like this job. I've done it for seven years identity. That time for six years i believe and i just said for various reasons job didn't fit my personality and so i said one year from today and it was june of eighty nine or ninety. I said i will not be here in one year and i have. I have no idea where i'm going to be. But i know it's not going to be here and by may of the following year. I got a job opportunity to go back into the corporate world as a consultant and But but that was understanding that the true meaning. What i really what i really liked about ministry was not really the focus of my job. I said i just needed to do something else. But that was precisely what you're saying. It's that taking that overview that that feeling that is sometimes it is just the feeling. Isn't it yeah not quantifiable at paying attention to. That's what the message is. Definitely come to us. Yes yes they really do So but you never know because you since thank you re correct for correcting me. But you didn't get to my question. Is what reawakened your authenticity. Well i've had many re awakenings in my career and You know in my life for sure. So you know when i was A go back to you. Know when i was a kid in high school. For example i came from a chaotic family and i was very good at Hiding my situation so even friends today. You know some forty plus years later are surprised that my home life was so chaotic Because i covered it so well so you know. When i got into my i would say thirties. I started to find a voice to be able to talk about some of the experiences. I had as a kid so i would say that. That was certainly a we a reawakening the voice. Where did this is what gave you. The voice was just a maturing and affiliates. You had to. You had to articulate this. Yes that i did feel that in a way without having the tools that i offer the readers in my book that i i started to reflect upon my own life story that i had been through a lot and that you know i had once i was in the workplace especially in my thirties i started to have a you know a pretty good career and i was rising in the organization ultimately ending up in the c. suite but i i would say that i felt like you know if somebody called me because i am a nice person but sometimes someone would say. Oh she's just a nice lady. I i would start feeling it because that's pretty condescending. When someone's you know gone to night school for years and got an mba at and all those things That yes. I am nice. And i'm lots of other things too or they would save key. We don't want this to hurt your feelings. And i would think back to my story and the chaos that i had already experienced multiple times as a very young person and i would think to myself. You have no idea how resilience i am. And so as i sort of it you know in my thirty started thinking about all of those things and for the listeners. All of you as you go through identifying these pivotal life moments for yourselves. You will realize that you have endured a lot. You're far stronger than you. Probably give yourself credit for you. Can persevere much better than you probably know. and it's really important to own those stories. So i started just inherently owning my own story. And saying you know what my situation as a kid that that had nothing to do with me and impacted me but it has nothing to do with the kind of person that i can become so you know. That was a reawakening then as a as a young mom you know. I was of a perfectionist. Which again for the listeners. I will say perfection does not exist no matter how hard we try. It's an illusion. But i was Working and i had young children at home and i was going to school at night. I had way too much on my plate. And i can remember A drive that. I took and i was driving down the road and i started to cry and i thought to myself i've died and no one noticed and the reason no notice was because i worked so hard to cover how hard it was. How challenging having doing all of these things was and. I didn't want anyone to think that i needed help. That i was quote human enough to need help and So that night was a reawakening in my mind because once i sort of got all of that out i was able and to more effectively talk about what what i needed in order to to continue to be a well balanced person. Was that moment. A would you call that a pivotal moment or is the result of that was a pivotal moment for you. Yeah absolutely yes. That was a piddle pivotal moment because i. I wasn't very good at articulating that i needed help. And i will tell you that. There's probably a lot of listeners right now that are thinking to themselves. I don't do that either. I don't ask for help. I just try to do the best that i can. And and keep going along and and it's sometimes you have this big moment like that one in the car or maybe even worse where you realize. I cannot do this alone. Yeah and you know and and the irony there. Is that when you do admit that this is an area. Wander work on you. Want to improve seventy five to ninety percent of the time people admire that and say and see that. Oh this person really cares. They know themselves they have. They have sort of Emotional intelligence and they're prepared to work through and they're obviously confident and when we just need to understand that that's that's the view of other people who is not that they're saying. Oh gosh. why don't you know this. You know you worthless son of a gun you know. You're absolutely right charlie. And and the and the other thing is there are also people that care about you. There honored to help. Eeo the are the you know that is that is so true so tell me for our listeners. Because i'm thinking i might like to do it myself. Would it be helpful. Do you suggest in your book that they just make a list of what they would see are the five to seven key points and then you know obviously read your book. But if you don't get a chance to read the book just ponder those and say what was the learning and and also to know that pivotal moment doesn't have to be a positive moment. It can be you know it could be a very troubling moment. Break up you know a shameful incident any kind of thing that really impacts you and you and you feel has sort of shaped part of you that it's it's That is still a pivotal moment. So what do you think about writing those down. And i absolutely believe that you must write them down. I believe within the next two or three weeks on my website which is vicky v. I c k i z n v o dot com. That these tools will be available free My book is also. The book is also discounted right now all the way probably through june so that readers can get the e book for a dollar ninety nine which i think is important. Yes on amazon. It was important to me to her. That so that if somebody did want to go out and do the exercises they could. Because it's not just a list of pivotal moments because the while those are important it also is important that we talk about. How did you feel during those pivotal moments. And then what were the takeaways whether those takeaways were positive or negative so for example you know one of my Stories is that i really. I had an experience really early in my education. I was only in first. Grade talk about a pivotal time. But i i was in first grade and i never did my homework and so when i finally did my homework. What little homework we had in first grade class clapped and because it was so unusual. So when i talk about okay well did. I feel about that. I can still remember and in with all of the listeners with your pivotal moments. You should be able to sort of viscerally feel how it felt then and i want you to go back in and feel what you felt so i felt so proud of myself and i felt like oh. I think i finally understand why this homework thing is so important and as a result then. So what did i take with me for. The rest of my life basically is that preparation was really important to me and the and that's a really good thing that to be prepared but one of the i'll say challenges that i had or something i know about myself. Is that somebody once. I was an executive or manager if people came and weren't prepared. I would be irritated by that and disappointed. And i would be visibly disappointed but i would say you know i'd rather you just not come to just cancel the meeting or reschedule and come when you're prepared but if somebody tried to pretend that they were prepared but they really weren't. That would bump up against that value. And i would not react very positively in a situation like that so i know that from my story. So that these you know the the tool in the book sorta ask you to go through. All three of those aspects of you know the the experiences the and those are who you are what matters most and and it would be. What's your pivotal moment. How did i feel about that. Pivotal moment i'm sorry what's the takeaway that's great. That's that's great advice. Boy that that exercise is worth is worth the podcast right there because you seriously because you know you will learn so much about yourself and and be able to perhaps erase some of that fall south and fall into line with the true self. Yeah and and here. I think it is important to as you said to. Really write things down. And if you uncover something that is you know some. Some of us unfortunately had experienced horrific things you know. And i'm thinking about you know sexual assaulter Sexual abuse or something like that. And if you uncover something like that you know. My hope is that You will get professional help for that because it does require a higher degree of assistance in order to move forward so my book covers data little bit but i just want to remind the reader. Because you know we sometimes when we're going through things like this. We do uncover memories that we perhaps had buried for quite some time and you know the ones the most difficult ones are the ones where we are the culprit had. We have done something to hurt somebody and you know maybe far in the past and through naievety youth immaturity and who knows what all that we take a look at it now and go. Oh my goodness. I can't even believe. I was like that that we do still have to revisit that and maybe even get professional help for that to to forgive ourselves to say we've changed and that is no longer who i am. That was that was part of myself in the past. But that's not part of me now. So i won't include both both sides of that that rarely do we talk about the culprit and the culprit going to say the culprit the responsible party and going through their difficulties that they're facing later in life of of shame and sorrow in all of us have them to some degree or another. of course. let's go back i wanted. I wanted just looking. At what. I what my notes i have here for because we're coming close to a break But i wanna do. I wanna do this question. I ball okay so I want to understand. I tried to repeat them. And i misunderstood on the pivotal core on the on the pivotal moments. The definition of core characteristics of an authentic person is to who you are what matters most. And how you bring that into the world. Is that something like that. So my question then and with this. This'll be a question before the break. What are the benefits of that. Have had quite people people ask. Why did you care. And the reason is that you know now. Now that i'm sixty years old. I'm looking back on most of you know i have more years behind me the head and i would say that you don't want to get to the end of your life and look backwards and say you know what i never had the guts to show up as who i truly am. I was somebody else and that i think is really just a shame and frankly i think all of us have many talents that we can offer this world and being somebody else is not allowing those towns to come forward and when they do come forward if all of us were show up who. We are and give our very best every single day to the best of our ability. I do believe that the world can be a better place when we can look at other human beings and appreciate that their unique and wonderful to And have something to offer. I think it makes a difference in the world. Boy that is That is so well sad. I i saw agreeing with that. We're going to take a brief break and then we're gonna come back go into a little bit different section. Okay hi this charlie hedges. And you're listening to the next chapter with charlie and my very special guests today is vicki's neighbor and she is Executive c. suite. Hr person not self educated but night. School educated got her her bachelor's degree and her masters degree and she has just written a wonderful book. Authenticity reawakened and talking about your life story. Fulfilling your life purpose. And i've got a. I've got a question for you. That i wanted to ask it in the last last section but will end the last section with with this question us stated one of the benefits is that you can make a difference in the world and that you can make a difference by much greater difference by being aligned with who you are then being aligned with what somebody else wants you to be and i'm wondering i'm thinking of the corporate environment i'm thinking of you know our culture in america group think and and we're getting more into group and individual think and and the difficulties that a person may encounter in being and individual authentic person in your experience because i think this comes to play but i'm wondering in your experience. What role does fear play in preventing us from being authentic well if it plays a significant role and you know all human beings charlie role afraid of something you know we. We all want to be appreciated and respected and cared about and we don't want to be rejected. You know some of those types of things at work. When somebody doesn't agree with us it hurts. You know we don't want to be vulnerable to people and as a result of that fear you know. Fear of not being accepted fear of standing out. Fear of some type of stigma or whatever it might be we we learn to just you know. Stop talking and fall in line and good leaders. You know. I my Master's degree is leadership. And and i would say that good leaders really do inspire. They're the people that they work with the to to have a voice to speak up. They appreciate differences on teams and things like that. I know i certainly did but Verse you leaders like that. Don't you think don't you think other leaders that that is not as common as we would like it to be. Yeah i mean. And i really hurts me to say that charlie because i know that people certainly are trying but yes when push comes to shove if we think about the world we're in you know especially in american society. There is so much pressure every single day. You're doing more with less and people just need to get stuff done. So i understand. Why leaders do that. It's not that it's their intention to not here. Their people or to not respect them or or what our value those different opinions. They're just trying to get things done. And sometimes when you have somebody who doesn't agree with the point of view it takes a little longer but ultimately different points of view are what really create the best outcome to. Because then you're really working to try as long as you know what you're trying to get to and if everybody can contribute you know it's a proven fact that the outcome will be better if you're able to listen to those different points of view but that's one of the great examples of losing losing ourselves along the way if you fall in line get mine and do what you're told. Oftentimes that's how you're promoted. That's how you get rewarded rewarded for not being you absolutely absolutely and then you're punished when you are being you and not vert punishment but sort of unaccepted send and back you know and water cooler talk and that sort of thing. Yes yes now. This is where you know. I think you're sort of evaluating your work experience that if this happens on a much too frequent basis where your voice. You are starting to really understand who you are. And what's important to you and your voice is consistently not heard or not appreciated. That's a good sign to start thinking about an exit strategy. How do i. How do i go into an organization or something else. That would be more in line with you know allowing me to to show up at least a little bit like myself. Yeah i can see that especially for younger. People for the millennials and the other groups that i can't recall the name of that our twenties to forties. But what about people that are not near retirement but within a decade or two of retirement. That's kind of difficult isn't it. It is difficult for sure. I mean this is where you know. Perhaps you may have had years already ten or twenty years already of sort of figuring out how to go along to get along but if it becomes more important i will say i left an organization. I was at for over twenty five years because my values no longer matched the company's value. So i was close to fifty and You know i had no trouble finding another position. and. I have no regrets that i did that because it was the best thing that i could have done. I couldn't in an organization anymore that no longer fit my life. But i know that we all have difficult decisions that we have to make as it relates to our own personal situations. You're at a situation that you just. You don't feel that you're able to be yourself. I would say find other areas of your life that you can maximize who you are. you know. maybe it's outside organizations doing things with your church doing things with community organizations etc. Were more of the of your true. Self can come through. you know. i was going to suggest that exact. Same thing if you can't if it's if it's just not reasonable and you take a look at your future as you're getting older and you just realize it's impractical and it's and it's Negative to my future. That i really can't do that. Then find someplace outside of work you know i. I know it's sixty years old. I taught myself to paint. And then i continue to write. I continued to travel. But all of these. And i and i worked with the nonprofit and i'm very active with a nonprofit. Those are ways that you know. Although i was fulfilled in my job i wanna be fulfilled in the not my jobs that i am still doing something that is in line with the core romy and and i'm expressive in creative and that's where you really can't be creative unless you're authentic. Do you think i do i. I agree with that absolutely. Yeah charlie. you're you're you're onto something there just Now no i wanted to ask a question that i think we've probably answer did but let's just i think repeating will not hurt for my audience That i wanted wanted you to walk me through this vicki. I have two questions one. How can i have We my often limits. Go ahead and give your answer. The answer is ponder. And that's think about my activities right down my pivotal moments and ponder those with your three questions. That i'm sorry. I can't remember what were the three questions here. what was what was the experience. How did i feel with the experience. And what was the takeaway. Those are great. Those are great questions really. I'm not. I'm not just saying that i'm i'm not easy on these kinds of things usually. Yeah yeah yeah. But they're they're very simple. And there. And i think they can make a big difference. Goes a great and so then. My second question was okay. I have identified some areas that are not consistent with the true inner core. Me or the authentic me. How do i go about making improvements to more closely align with my truest inner herself share so i just want to add one additional point on the knowing who you are all that we just described. That's absolutely true. My book does help you. Identify your personal values. Because i think that that's really gets the heart of west. Yes so there is an exercise that goes through values. And it's it is something that you're going to need the the book and or the table and if you go to my site in a couple of weeks it should be there. And then lastly i i would say that you know this whole concept again of as you said reflecting upon what's important and then if you say okay. These are the areas that i know are so important to me and i'm not showing up this way then. You really have to think about what. I always like the question. What will make it better so ask yourself that. What will make it better. I'm not living up to my values today. The well will make it better and think about you know just a few steps. What are some things that i can do right away to start turning this around so it might be. You know when i'm with my my loved one. I'm gonna put my phone away. And i'm going to listen actively. Listen to what they're saying. Or i'm going to take my kids to the park or i'm going to win. The next time says something that's Racist or discriminatory at work. I'm actually going to say. Please don't speak that way in my presence you can practice what it is that you're going to say in those in those situations where you really feel strongly about something and write them down and then hold yourself accountable to actually taking those steps that you said you know because you know when you said. Hold yourself accountable. That is really critical as it's something We talk a lot about and that's about discipline becomes a discipline and that you you have a discipline you know i have a. I have All the listeners. And i have a morning discipline and mourning morning disciplined would take care of all of this but every morning every morning. I'm retired so i don't have to be at a job at seven or eight o'clock but i'm still up at six thirty in doing my practice. That is requires discipline now. My time in africa for three weeks i lost track of that discipline and because of the time zone change. I've just in the last couple of days reformed regarding reintroduce myself to my disciplines. And vicky i gotta tell you it just makes all the difference in the world just one or two more days just reminds me i slip right back into the nice part rather than the rather than the confusing part absolutely and you know it can be overwhelming when you think about change of any kind. But this is why. It's so important to break it down into smaller manageable steps and then if you slip up and sometimes we we do Just as you said how back on As soon as you realize you sort of strayed away from what you intended to do and And just keep going. And i would encourage readers after they do your seven pivotal moments and and and your book that it doesn't hurt to just take once a month and take five minutes and review those. Just look at them again just to remind yourself of them. I journal daily in their search journal. Entries that i go back and i read because they were so fulfilling that It really makes a difference. Yeah yeah and you know you ultimately what you're working toward for all of us and it doesn't matter if you're twenty five or eighty five. It doesn't matter how old you are. We're still living. And i think if you just remind yourself why it's important to you and just keep that in mind it will give you the additional push that you need to sort of stay on track and stay focused. Yes as we're wrapping up one thing. I'm noticing you know in your subtitle you talk about fulfilling your purpose is just so obvious that if you are your truest inner self your your authentic self. Then you can't help but fulfill your purpose you you'd have to almost try not to because you're acting according to your purpose. According to the way you are designed according to the way you designed to work and to achieve and and there's a strong relationship between authenticity and purpose absolutely and i help the reader with that too by just sort of focusing on understanding what it is that you want in this life but do you really want. We're great at talking about what we don't want or what we don't like but what do you want and then you know when you're at your best. What does that look like. And then what do you believe. So there's a whole exercise around that. But ultimately charlie it gets to exactly what you just said that we really can't live up to our god given purpose if we're showing up as somebody else. Yeah we are taught that as children our parents frequently give us indicators of what we should do with our lives and then we've got teachers impairs telling us what we should do with our lives and we started listening to them and we get on and and it's like I used to say that is like Climbing the ladder of success reaching the top and finding your ladder was leaning against the wrong building. Absolutely so as we wrap up producer. Paul is very fond of reminding us of tombstones or earns always points out that really have three elements of a tombstone. You have a birthdate. a death date. An between is a dash is a short nine. The dates themselves of birth and death are interesting but what really counts. Your whole life is in that dash. That is what's that's what's important. You know did you. You know i wish we could have meaningful dashes and on meaningful dashes. But you know if you can make that dash meaningful by doing the things that you're suggesting in reawakening your authenticity. I'm going to highly encourage our readers to pick up the book. It will be on the show notes with an amazon link as well. Your your excellent really really. Well done website you designers are but they're but they're very good. Thank you so much. I'll definitely Share that with deanna. Who does all my work. She's tastic just curious. Is this a wordpress or is this different. It's wordpress you know what a what a powerful instrument so. Yeah i would really encourage people to get more involved with your work vicky I think. I think you can if people can follow some of your guidelines. It will make a major impact on their life. I really wanna thank you for that. Thank you so much charlie. I really appreciate it. Vicki's neighbor it's it's just been such a pleasure having you on the show today. And i also want to think all our listeners for tuning into the next chapter charlie and please be sure to check us out at our website. The next chapter dot life until next. This is charlie hedges signing off by for now.

vicki charlie charlie hedges vicky Bless pasquale sorn kirkuk nance uganda amazon american society america journal daily in their search africa Paul deanna Vicki
#185 Alex Yost: The World According to Alex Yost

OC Talk Radio

43:03 min | 6 months ago

#185 Alex Yost: The World According to Alex Yost

"Welcome everybody's time once again for the next chapter with charlie hedges as he explores turning the page on his life and your. Hey charlie hey show. We have for our listeners. Today my guest world adventure. Alex ios texas from living the high life and managing columbia of places to exploring new species of life in galapagos islands. And then how he founded a business for transporting priceless artifacts for the richest of the rich and in the midst of all of this alex reveals that how through these adventures he has attained a peaceful inner life filled with deep spirituality. So let's join the conversation as we take a look at the world. According to alex joost alex joost adventure extraordinaire. Welcome to the next chapter with charlie charlie. What a pleasure. Always great to talk to you my friend. Yeah it is. You know. Alex i was thinking about it and we met five or six years ago when your nephew ryan booked her and my son were playing baseball together for the san diego padres now. Neither one place for the padres and whereas ryan now russia's with the arizona diamondbacks in spring training. Right now uh with cleveland. And he played san diego today funny in spring training. Yeah you had a great game. That was good fun now. At the time we met you know i thought you were a real estate guy and because you were doing real estate in the phoenix area and even back then my wife and i were thinking of moving to the phoenix area scottsdale area and were still considering it now but you were in real estate. But that wasn't for a long time. Was that will charlie i. I had my real estate license for quite a while. Actually because i had some properties that i wanted to sell myself so for me it made sense to pay for hundred dollars and not have all those commissions and i'm selling properties right so well this first into a career because I had just been around. The phoenix area scottsdale area. And i just knew. The lay of the land. I had three contacts and just sort of naturally was a good A good place for me to be at that point in time but Yeah shortly. After i i. I sold everything in phoenix and scottsdale and a I traveled and And i've been traveling and and i've done that. I started traveling but back in the mid two thousands but really since two thousand seventeen. I've lived out of the country longer than i've lived in the country With the exception of last year of course because of the world events and we all know. Yeah yeah and Some family issues but other than that Yeah it's been a good a pretty nice experience That i've had you know each would different cultures. I i don't. I don't do your typical traveling not i don't i. Don't go say to thailand in and Spend time at all the tourists spots. I go and i immersed myself in the culture. Pick up the social cues Meet people from all over the world. Stay for three months at a time. Three and a half months time stain. An airbnb really have a full on trying to get the most avid squeeze. The most i can out of that experience. I find that the kitchen traveling leaves a little empty. I mean if. I want to go to the beach. You know i can go to the beach pretty much anywhere in the world and have the same experience drinking margaritas and the beach. And you know that kind of thing and staying at a hotel you know i wanna be able to actually get under the fingernails of the people that live there you know and find out what makes them tick and really immersed myself. I ended up going to south america knowing probably a handful of words spanish which was interesting and lou. Excuse me but let's look at the countries you went to. I have costa rica. nicaragua colombia ecuador The galapagos islands. And then like you said thailand. And you know that's that's quite a wide variety of countries to experience every country has its own nuance had its own amazing qualities. Obviously the galapagos is known for adventure travel And i was fortunate enough to start a business there where i could put packages together. We're north americans vacant experience sort of the same things that i was In columbia i lived in medigene columbia and i lived in the mountains outside. Now we tell magazine mena gene. There was a time that was the cartel. Capital of the world was not yet i. It was those days the Colombians are are not proud of that time whatsoever and they really You know netflix's really done a job on the won't being Tourist industry especially in measuring was hob- low as far is that was that medigene that that's correct the hollywood with the movies and things like that. I kept up with the movies movies. We'll try to that. There were fifty years or there as well so you know it was it was a very turbulent place. What is it like medecine was the one of the most beautiful cities that i ever lived in. And i say that. I i lived in a place called lower and i lived in l. salata which was the outdoor malls and these places are comparable to if you ever been the scottsdale fashion square mall. This is not a third world whatsoever. Is the movie theaters. There have reclining seats and waiters. Just as you would. Have you know in any modern city here. You know upscale the people the people are some of the most friendly outgoing kind courteous people. You'll ever meet in your life now. Are there some chidi sections. Of course. But i would say that i would much rather if i had to walk five blocks see in new york city right now or watch five blocks in managing. I would took the ladder for sure. No kidding didn't you compare didn't you compare columbia with you said the city's you're in. Where'd somewhat similar although not coastal we're somewhat similar similar to montecito. Which is the you know. Really well to do area outside of santa barbara yes and there are very very well to do areas there you. There is a burgeoning middle class in colombia. However you still have extremely wealthy people and you have strictly where people however the the the flora and fauna and some of these areas were where i was was just unbelievably beautiful. There are four different ecosystems in columbia. Also you have an amazon area. You have a mountain area Desert plain kind of area. You have a beach area so literally. Bogus aw. The weather in bogota is similar to san francisco cooler. Then you go down into places like watch pay You go into the coffee. Regions face called armenia. And you'd have these beautiful mountain hillsides green and lush. That remind me of california. I mean just with no humidity temperatures ranging from say the lows of fifty five cup to eighty five. Oh my so i. It's just it's unbelievably beautiful and what was really attractive for me is the fact that you know. Listen i'm not a millionaire. I like the travel. The exchange rate is a four-time multiple there a lot of ex pats living on fifty thousand dollars a year pensions and able to live very well in columbus and have a great quality of life that the people what what what you know you've got an also as you said you've got three classes but of you know your everyday people. Are they the the poor class or they the middle class depending on where you live and now the areas where i lived it was Upper middle class. The system there would i noticed is not like we have in the us in the fact that Right after high school the career path was going directly into your field. So there wasn't necessarily a A system for years. Where you get a bachelor's degree and then go to graduate school. It would be high school and then going into become an engineer. Or it's not like we're a high level trade school correct. That's exactly the way good way to put it. So what what. I would see would be people with multiple degrees highly intelligent people from really really nice families that were working really really hard and living by our standards would be very middle class existence so it was really interesting to see the level of education versus what people were. Actually making there were they. Were they friendly today. were they. Friendly united states people are is one of those kind of anti united states. He's not they lowest charlie. We you know they. They see us as the catalyst for getting rid of oslo escobar. Especially alleging where. I lived was a place near the stadium. Estadio and their two soccer teams nacional and medigene and they would play a few times three times a year and i was in fortune enough to have a pin house. That overlooked the stadium. I could actually look into the stadium and so and you're not wealthy and you have penthouse overlooking the stadium. Well what if. I told you what i teach you. You would be. You would be very very surprised That's the the exchange rate leverage. We're talking about yeah. It's pretty cool. But i couldn't walk down the street. Charlie without somebody saying greenville beneke and also might come over and There would be a shot of the identity or water. it's kind of liqueur. Kinda like san buca. I could be my gym clothes walking my dog and Yeah i would do. And i couldn't escape. You know someone coming over and trying to talk to me outdoor cafes. The weather again being so perfect there's patio restaurants everywhere cafes well you deserve social atmosphere. You've just put columbia medigene on my list of places that i want to spend some time. You know what. I'm curious about what. I really would love to talk a bit about. Because i think a lot of us here in the us really curious about the galapagos island you know it is the islands you know. They're so strange so much so so mysterious and and to us. I don't know how true this is. But they seem to be sort of the epicenter of evolutionary development. In so lots of keen. Science is going on there as well. Tempt tell me about what was your experience like on the galapagos islands. Well to your point charlie. There's new species of marine animals found every day. They're three hundred sixty. Plus marine animals. New species found there a year. No way pretty amazing are they are they are they. Are they marine or are they on land. No this is the underwater stuff this is. These are the new Seahorses or the new variety of of sea cucumber. Or whatever there is in. It's absolutely an amazing. What you have is a compliance of the press. They're cold currents from south america and then the warm currents around the equator and these are volcanic islands And it is absolutely incredible. When i can't even describe to you when when you when you see an iguana that actually swims underwater and is eating algae and then comes up and laze and sons itself when you go and you snorkel with sea lions maybe have never seen a human being in their life and they're coming up and they're more inquisitive than human being is when you're snorkeling with these things they'll come right up to you and say what the heck is this the him so to me it. You can't even describe The the The experience it's very rustic. You're not gonna have the four seasons there so you need to be ready for that you know. Obviously but bummer no snow no snow no snow. Whatever you know the seasons there too. There really isn't a down season so for tourism. It's really nice. I mean. I think august may be really awesome time to go now with code. They've downsized their fleets as far as The tourist go that that are The shifts okay. So if you plan on taking some sort of crews there or one of these semiprivate cruises where fourteen fifteen people on The chefs usually. That's not a good way to go now. The real nice thing that we had is no my connections actually owned an echo lodge on Santa cruz islands. And so what we're able to do is fly people into ball through islands which is right next to santa cruz. Stay at our Equal lodge and then do day trips so to half hour boat ride on a forty two slit boat which is kind of like a. I'd say a fishing boat with benches on it on its size for use with size boat. Yeah and You get out to. The different is Santa fe island is where i saw the sea lions. You know that's where. I had interactions there. What i really like about the islands Is that everything. Runs like clockwork. The ecuadorian navy is involved in everything we actually had. I had a one night a sort of an event that could have turned into something. Really really bad or our boat was taking on. Water are small boat. We were in the middle. Maybe an hour hour and a half out in the middle of the ocean there. Yeah there were about thirty five of us on the vote. Thirty of us on the board any panic. Catchy but well. We had to be rescued and yes. We ended up being rescued by a cruise ship. That was we put it this way when we got on the ship. We offer or d'oeuvres and champagne. It wasn't a bad spot to land as a travel. A travel upgrade. Yeah that were the travel upgrades for sure but these are the fun things in the this is what makes the experiences so rich and especially going to these places. You're none of these cookie cutter vacations where everything flows really well at sometimes of south america. The flights just don't run the trains. Don't run on time everywhere. Obviously and you know you just gotta roll with the punches and you can't get worked up about it you just gotta go with it and You know you've been to hawaii. Everything's on hawaiian time in hawaii. That's kinda the way it is you know. In south america. In many regards he just have to just with the culture and and And fit in and enjoy the ride. That's what it's all about. You know we're planning a trip to sort of in between that and this september and we're going to Little bit of time. Portugal within we're going to spend some time in spain some time in italy and and i want to go and be able to pray with the saints. So we're spending some time in avi to to visit saint theresa vava's convents and and my wife shops albeit the confidence and the monasteries. And then go to Umbria in italy where he is and saint francis of busy and so it's sort of a sort of a combination it has. It has the nice shopping and the nice play things in my life points. My wife wants to go to but it's not that she's not interested in spiritual adventures. But but that's where i'm not. I'm not interested in shopping but it is sort of you know we have a weaken a busy and it's really unplanned. We're we're going to pick a place to stay and then choose our days as they go along and i. I like traveling that way rather than you know that old movie. It's tuesday so it must be so it must be paris. You know the strict tourist schedule. I don't do well with those. I take it a step further. Because i usually travel alone. I don't i don't like traveling with others. Only because i think that limits the experience for me as well yeah i i Some travel alone. And i like i love traveling with my wife. My wife is. I can't imagine a better travel companion. You know she gives me grace to be sort of that that introvert to go off by myself and do things alone but when i do travel alone is not that frequent but i went to I went to see the northern lights and time in northern in northern europe in sweden and norway. And i was by myself and i just love that because it was totally free i had. I had nothing plan. What is it that drives you to be such what. I'm calling an inquisitive gypsy. What is it that makes you what to live the gypsy life personality traits are openness and i am an extrovert so those they and that's that's just in my dna yard. We i just. I can't not be that person. That i realized that after college i moved to arizona from the east coast with five hundred dollars in my pocket and i knew one person in arizona. So you know. I've always had that sort of thing and even in college. I mentioned I think we talked about this before and another conversation we had you and i have something in common. Although probably decades apart is the fact that hey i travel i watched I watched a lot of grateful. Dead shows in the early ninety s. You know when. I was going to school. I i see these people how sleepy and i saw what really liberating liberalism was about. You know being being you know being to live and so veggie burritos and travel and and live your lifestyle where you want it to and there's something that just drew me to that and I didn't come from that sort of background whatsoever right. It's very very traditional upbringing. East coast You know private schools whole nine yards a college athlete. Four year degree in business. And you know. I was all set to have the corner office with the name fleet. Eventually and that just wasn't in the cards for me. I ended up starting a moving company in arizona. Yeah you gotta tell us about. You've got to tell us about the moving company. you know moving well dynasty. Vases i mean this is i. You know. i still can't get over that. well charlie. This business started as a summer job in my in my early twenties just delivering leather sofas and scottsdale because my friend had a box truck and he needed the payments made. Well gosh i was making more money in a week. That i was making my office job and had a lot more fun and who long story short is over four years. This business developed into working primarily with interior designers paradise valley and scottsdale a warehouse teams of men that would travel all over the west coast and all over the country. The eventually different parts of the world move furniture for. Let's just say the point one percent of the point. One percents wealthiest people in the us or to put it that way of the people that you associated with and how how fun and unique that is to learn what that's all about into see and then you get to have personal experience with fine art which you know that by itself makes me jealous. Well the interesting we were we. Were you know specialty handling industry. That that's really what we did. And we specialized in the not only artwork but You know Any sort of antique Whether it was a vase from the ming dynasty for example we we could. We could handle all these sort of things. I mean goodness. I had over a million dollars just in bolts of fabric stored in my warehouse for my clients. People were talking. It was really eye opening seeing that sort of wealth. I was the curator for one family's furniture over five thousand pieces of furniture had to develop a system of operations for counting for everything this these this one family had over sixteen houses San francisco montecito puerto rico. You name it. They had a seventy million dollar ship. That would would dock in galveston sometimes sometimes in miami and Yeah were able to You know handle everything professionally now. Here's the funny thing it's a. I consider to being like an offensive lineman in football. You had to do your job correctly. Hundred percent of the time and you got ruling not a lot of credit for the one time that you screwed up the cameras on you and all of a sudden. You're pulled out of the ballgame because the touchdowns pulled back because you had a holding talk or something like that. That's the stress that has to be just enormous. It was and you know to be perfectly frank At that point my life i was. I didn't learn how to let go. And i was a control freak and you can see why you know the guys we hired. Were you know not your typical moving people. You know that looks like they just got out of the penitentiary for say You know we were hiring clean. Cut guys that that. I would train personally. You know. i had a whole protocol for how to act in people's homes like we're not friends with these people. I would tell my guys you know. We're pretty much. What lurs in in homes where we would go so the interior designer says one one inch to the left one inch to the right with a sofa. That's great yes ma'am and You know we're out of there you know and we charge by the hour. We made it. I made a very good living doing that. we charge for storage where he'll crates and ships furniture all over the world But it got you know it depends how you quantify success coming from you know a guy that had really nothing almost living out of his car to you know being able to accumulate thing and and and being proud of that but still feeling empty. Yeah feeling like. I really had no this material success and grant. We're talking you know again. I'm talking You know millions and billions of dollars like my s had experiencing success from zero to two that. You'd think that i would have some sort of ability to sit back and smell the roses but no i. I can't do that charlie. There's no way i started getting into Voici and mixed martial arts and physical training to You know extreme hiking all kinds of different things to kind of push myself and still feeling empty you know and so i realized that it's a spiritual thing to me and you know the spiritual battle that sent talking about that spiritual battle. Yeah well my thing was I had to learn to let go not just of just control over my business. I had to kill my ego and live without judgment and attachments. And the way i did. That was was really interesting in the fact that i discovered that my thoughts. And we're all lies whether they're good or they're bad. And they come from a deception deception or a deceiver. No matter how you categorize that but some point where you know you need to watch your thoughts and kind of like watching television show being able to deserve your thoughts and understand that you know. Those thoughts are are false. There lies and once you can do that. You can control your emotions you control your feelings insecurities all these different things. That people take You know drugs for and go to therapy for these are these these things off can be controlled and this. This is what i've done. I've been able to do that through meditation. And primarily through a connection that i found with god and before you you know what i wanted to be on i. I know you're not and i want to talk about that. Spiritual connection and that sort of a transition period. What i'd like to do is take a break right now and it won't be long and we'll be right back to continue on with the spiritual transformation. You're listening to the next chapter. With charlie charlie hedges and my very special guests the as i called him the adventurer extraordinaire. Alex joost who has had lived in several countries had several different jobs as never stuck in one place and and now he's alluding to the idea that there is a deeply deeply spiritual connection to his wandering and to his learning. And i want you to continue on with with the spiritual disciplines the idea of good and evil right and wrong. And what your spiritual connections all about alex. Would you tell us more about that. I i certainly can yet the What a foils down. Charlie for me is with all all the traveling and and and the different things that i've done experiences. I've had as an entrepreneur. Still feeling empty. What i learned was that by looking within. I found the kingdom of god and the kingdom of god is and the material world you listen. I'm able to overcome anger. And resentment. And the material world would just put me back into these realms of of worry and anxiety and things of that so when i can detach from this i able to become a beacon of goodness i would say and i'm able to understand that the light of god works through me. I'm just a human vessel. And i think that we're spirits in this world Going experience life but we are spiritual beings were were muscle and bone with all that kind of stuff. Obviously for me. It became very very real. I forgave my mother. Forgave my father after they were evil people. But for me that anger. I found found the The problem that i was having in my life was that i was had this anger inside this resentment. My mother turned me away from my father. And my father didn't protect me from my mother. And when i was able to forgive and to truly understand that they're just human beings just would've boils down to is I think we've talked about this. Previously is just you know. Socrates mentions a note. I self is the beginning of wisdom and when you can really unpeeled layers and and see what's going on and within yourself and the only way to do that is to really be honest and to live in the truth And the way came through that is understand that observing your thoughts and understanding that we're stressed comes from. We're all these ideas. Come that Lead to negativity in your life takes you away from and taking these items that. Cq away from god to away from channeling. God's love and wisdom in your life really can set us free just that understanding can really set us free from things that stop us in life for moving forward three s from emotional worries stresses zayed's and everything i realized came from resentment and anger. Now my heart is not still with any of these things. I equate sin and falling shorts. Everything stems from resentment and anger. Yeah i can. I can identify with that you know. I think it's i think everybody's core each each of us have a different core. That takes there. I take it from me. It's not so much resentment but it is it is abuse and neglect. And then. I didn't so much. Resent that but i just felt the pains of it and the difficulties of it and i had to look at that through different eyes. You know what's really amazing. me is what. You're talking about the spirituality. You're talking about is exactly i mean is is very very close to what's known as a christian mysticism and the mystics all talk about Abandoning the ego. They call it abolishing the ego getting rid of the small self. The the ego centric selfish. I need to take care of myself. Small self in order to give room for the larger self and the larger entity we call god to take that space and those are the kinds of things that you're talking about. And i love the socrates quote i you know to know. Thyself is the beginning of wisdom saint. Therese of avila writes about that a lot. She talks she talks much of her. Writing is talking about self knowledge and through her seven mansions of prayer that each mansion. You were going deeper and deeper into self-knowledge and as she in saint john of the cross will both write about abolishing or annihilating the ego. So this is these are these are not just these are biblical truth. These are world truths. I think these are life trues no matter what theological perspective from which you approach them. They are life truce because other religions focus on them as well. I mean even accurate totally talks about living in the now and the presence. Yes you know when when you met a cheat on in in god's word and you you you're able to be still no you're able to live in the now there is no past. There is no future. There is just this very moment. And that's when you connect with god in my opinion that's i do. That's fine my connection. In my mind's eye you know a spiritual. If i may a spiritual teacher loves to take the mantra that takes him into the takes him into meditation is he. Repeats repeats this mantra. Be still and know that i am god. Be still and know be still be you know you. Just take each one of those in in successive steps and and those mantras taking him in to up to a place into a meditative space and that's exactly. I have my tools to do that That i've sort of develops and just through teachers that i run across and you. That's exactly what i do every morning and every night and when i do that it seems like my world comes together. I don't. I don't have aspirations charlie to really do anything except be and what i found. Is that things. Come my way now. I i don't force them. I don't worry about things. And i'm meeting amazing people interacting with not only just successful people but really people that i can people of character that i that i can really weren't from in a lotta ways I have job opportunities coming my way. Now i have you know. I'm living in tampa florida now. Exploring a new existence here and just really excited to wake up everyday kind of like a kid on christmas waking up three this today i never heard from us. I've never heard anybody from tampa florida. Saying i wake up in the morning thinking about seizing the day then. It's that shows literally as i've listened to what you said today in our previous conversations. You seem to live a fearless life in that you have the ability to change quickly well knowing when it is time to stay put for a while. There's a time for change and a time for stain put. How do you know the difference. How do you know when it's time to move on. And when it's time to stay put is is at all intuition or are there any criteria that you use that is very intuitive intuitive nature. That i've developed charlie and and the reason why is because i find that my feet are firmly planted in the sand and i d wins of life and the trials and tribulations of life can try to bend me one way or the other and i tried to know when it's time to pick up and move on and where there's another opportunity and i've been able to sift through that information Again just by being really just knowing myself again and understanding that i am an extrovert. I'm able to slip the table up. and and disrupts my entire life and then recreate my life out of that chaos. And i have the confidence to do that. And we're gonna need really chaos to. I mean i i function really. Well and chaos. I don't try to create it. Necessarily although i will but i m my best self in in chaos. That is when the truest me and the best meat comes out. Because i am. I'm removed from any choice in the matter. I just have to make a decision and move on. I heard somebody wants say. And i'm not sure who they were quoting. But i love this quote. Says prayer is when we communicate to god. Intuition is when god communicates to us. Yeah i like that. That's a wonderful way to pathetic. Isn't that isn't that a love that. Yeah yeah because we can't we you know. God doesn't deal in text messages and emails. You know it is. It is an intuition. it is sort of. I don't want to call it a feeling but there is a. There's something going on inside. That is a message inside and unfortunately because of our american ideals and and the standards that we live by we sometimes fearful of living out that intuition because it could threaten our safety and that is one thing that really we cling to is being safe. And so so. It's like it's like someone being in an abusive relationship. And i often say that someone will stay in abusive relationship because a bad known is better than any unknown. I'm so fearful of the unknown. But at least i can predict the bad known. And what you what. The life you live by is a bad known is time to make a move. That's it and i consider myself a rugged individualist to the point where historically i looked hack my goodness our ancestors came here on an over came so many odds the life life span at least seat in the year. Nineteen hundred was forty six years for for ask. I mean we've almost doubled that so you're right. Maybe there is a little bit of softness. Maybe there's a little bit of You know Anxiety for change. You know because we have this soft existence and i think that is an issue also is in. My opinion is manhood and what does what finds a man now and what level of of tolerance for enduring. You have now in society and it's very very important thing to know how to do is to be able to go through the struggle and not complain about it and just wake up every day and chip away and chip away and work hard and and try to get to the next level and you know good things happen for people who take chances and and on a firm believer in that and so. I'm not afraid to do that. And and you know. What if i if i if i stumble and i do have set back in some capacity. I consider it a learning experience and Again you you understand where. I'm coming from with the realizations that i've had through through the traveling and things like that but when you lose the ego then you're not worried about what other people think you're not worried about. Who's going to judge you for this or for that. You just pick up the pieces and you go and It's it's not a hard concept. The journey is is is really not that difficult to get over ourselves in my opinion. I i i love that you you you know what i would because i saw i saw agree with so many things that you had to say there in that in that last bit. And here's the way. I want to close closer podcasts. I'm gonna. I'm gonna to ask you a question that i've never asked anyone on the podcast before and you may have just answered. Except i'm looking for sort of assessing sankt. You know tim ferriss. What do you call news bulletin boards which you call what where on the freeways billboard yeah billboards he said what was your billboard statement and so i'm not looking for a billboard statement but here's my question That that i. I really want to know from you. If you had one personal truth that you feel everyone should know or practice one personal truth you feel. Everyone should know practice. What would that be. You know charlie through always very difficult for me to to be a person that can describe things in less than two sentences that i'll do my best. I think that god speaks of the truth. And the truth sets us free. I get it i love it. Alex post. What a charming treat. Thank you thank you so much for spending time with me today. I it's been an honor. The honors all mind charlie. I really enjoyed our conversation and thanks so much. Thank you and i also want to our listeners. For tuning into the next chapter with charlie and please be sure to check us out at the website. the next chapter dot life l. f. and until next this is charlie hedges signing off by for now.

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#130 Will Crist - Transitions and Life Goals

OC Talk Radio

1:04:23 hr | 2 years ago

#130 Will Crist - Transitions and Life Goals

"It's cutting into your exercise time. It stabbing you in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind. It's pain and it's getting in between you and the life few onto live CD medic target your pain at its source. It's fast acting relief with active OTC ingredients plus the added benefits of THC free hemp oil. Get get back to your life with CBD medic available online and at CBS. These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA this product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any disease. Welcome everybody's time. Once again for the next Chapter Charlie hedges as he explores turning the page on his life and yours. Hey Charlie Hey Paul good to be here with you once again it. Does he talk radio and I believe our show. Today may be one of the most unusual shows shows that I personally have ever done and the reason is I know almost nothing about our guest which is which is you know I don't like to be I'm not it overly prepared but I like to be somewhat prepared and and I'm 'cause I somewhat repaired our guests at prepared prepared I may need repair Will Crest. I is our guest today and we have had The similarities that will and I have had in our background make get an interesting interplay that we may have will as a priest. I was a minister will as a consultant and executive executive coach. I was a consultant and executive coach. And he currently has his own podcast titled Love This title. The pilgrim on the four zero five live and for those of you that don't know in southern California. The four zero five is a eight or ten lane parking lot. So it's it's there's there's lots of pilgrimage to be done on the four. Oh five so what we're GONNA get today is part of a really really unrehearsed and almost totally unprepared. Conversation of two is experienced life through three similar yet. I'm sure a unique combinations of life choices let's Let's discover what wo- Chris. Charlie hedges have in common as well as discovering covering the wonder of our similarities at the same time naturally unique and distinct. So let's do it. Well Chris Welcome to the thanks Charlie early. Thanks thanks you know. You said that we're unprepared. I think we've been preparing for this. For maybe seventy plus years. Yes we both. Yeah I I I I am I am proud to say I reached the The magical seventy last month. So so I I now consider myself on the way to being a wise person will welcome welcome to the the best age you know. No I look at that. We T- Polin. I talked about that last week and I did my take on the seasons of life and that that it begins life begins in spring spraying at twenty years old. And you're casting seeds and then you find what you can grow on then summer in life. Is You know thirty five to fifty five to sixty where you're in your high productive years and doing having children doing all the things that you do but the season that gets ignored and that's a season you and I are in right now. Now is autumn. It is the most beautiful season you know. I think just naturally the most beautiful season. The colors are vibrant It's a little bit cooler. Things are a little bit slow down for us. You know we don't quite. I don't quite have the energy I had at forty five but I still have plenty of energy. The at seventy. I'm I'm I'm not not not bothered by that but We're in we're like you said this is the best season. This is a great season. A great time. Let me tell you a little bit about about my recent experience with with my coach Dan Sullivan and do that. That sets your exercise code. No no no no. This is my entrepreneurial coach and Dan his for the last forty five years has taught over. Eighteen thousand Rosen entrepreneurs around the world no way and and so. I've been watching Dan for four five six eight years reading material thinking. You know I really WanNa do that some day. I really want to do that well a year and a half ago. I said it's time I have the time now. I have the resources. I'm going to do it so I called up and I said Okay Dan. I WanNa work with you and he said okay so he said the the last time you can work with me and my program is in is called. The 10X connects program said ten x ten x Dan. I you know. At this time I was seventy one I said Dan I'm seventy one now now. I'm working with the entrepreneur operating system and I can see where you know five years twenty clients each year. You know five years I have worked with forty fifty sixty companies and and I WANNA put put aside significant amount of money I said why do I need to ten x anything anything and and and and just so our audience is not always business-oriented. Ten X means ten times ten times ten times. Something and I said why do I have to ten x anything and he said Oh will sounds to me like you have a five year program and I said well. I hadn't thought about that. And he said well he said you're seventy one you've got a five year program he said I'm seventy three and since I'm GonNa live to one hundred and fifty-six I have at least two twenty five year programs ahead of me. So what is your twenty five year program and that was like that was like a sledgehammer to my forehead forehead and I mean my my response was. Here's my credit card. Let's get going now. Some of the students said he has people like Dave asprey. Bulletproof Coffee Dave's GonNa live one hundred eighty. That's what he says. Peter Demand is going to live to one hundred forty one of his clients. These demands Amandus and all of Peter's Group. All of these folks are not saying. Oh I'm seventy five. I'm getting a I'm losing energy. They're saying oh I'm not an injured. I don't have the energy I had before. I wonder what changed changed. And that's where they start talking about bulletproof coffee true Nigen Vitamin D. All of these things. Because they're going to live a long time and what they're saying is not only. Do we know now how to live longer but the longer we live the more things are going to be in place to live even longer. That's true and so the question is how do i WanNa live the next twenty five years. And if I'm GonNa live to one hundred twenty five which I believe is possible given the changes that are in in in flux right now. Yeah all right. So if I'm one hundred twenty-five what what do I WANNA do. What impact do I wanNA make? And then what what looking back at a hundred. What do I wanna be happy proud that I have done? And that's what's on my mind right now. Yeah that I I like that. What have you? I believe the impact. I think that's important. What kind of income impact can we wait? Can we make a difference in the world and can we help other people. But what do I have. What am I passionate about absolutely might what am am I going to truly enjoy? Yes if you don't enjoy it's it's it's not worth doing if you're not bouncing out of the bed in the morning you haven't really dug down to find out what you were sent here to do. That's interesting I so so give me some ideas. What are what are some of the things that you want to do? The key things that you want to do in the next twenty five years. Well what what's on my mind right now and I haven't put it down but I'm I'm playing around with it. What if over the next twenty five years? A group of people in Orange County identified one thousand companies to help them the dramatically better. All right so you think about that. Let's just take a thousand companies. The average average annual revenue. Two of the fifteen thousand right so a thousand times. Fifteen thousand is one hundred fifty thousand hud a million five hundred dollars more fifteen fifteen million dollars time two thousand Oh fifteen billion not million of about the average company that I work with ten to two hundred fifty employees. Do Math already done. It's a lot of money right. What if we were just to take those companies and increase their revenue by ten percent? That's significant amount of money. What if we took those? I said well these. These companies if the tend to be like a hundred employees per company a thousand companies increase increasing by ten percent. A lot of jobs. And that's exciting to me. That's at ten times project. That's a great project so so it it really the ultimate. The ultimate goal of your project is employment employment revenue. Think about what happens if that revenue gets it's into the ecosphere of Orange County. Yeah more investment money available. You have more money for taxes you have better school. All all of that comes to making the culture better now. you think of octane which works on startups right now technology startups and medical device biomedical startups. When they finish that they're on their own? That's the place we can begin to make significant changes in help them grow faster more effectively more efficiently. And that's what you do. Is You consult with the leaders. I hope I can only work with maybe a fulltime for me as twenty companies. So that's a lot of companies that never. I've never had full twenty come to ask what full-time for me would be now. There are three hundred and fifty people like me doing the same thing I do around the country and it will shortly shortly become seven hundred right now. We have about twelve of those in southern California so we can create more of these eos implementers who can do the same kind of things but the goal would be a thousand companies that are dramatically more effective more efficient and if they're biomedical. They're helping their their patients have better outcomes. It's my wife worked with a lot of biometric. Well there you go. It's it's really really helping them to become so much better now. That's something I'm playing around with for my twenty five year goal. What are you playing around with for your twenty five year goal? Oh what am I playing around with for my twenty five. I don't have a twenty five year ago because because honestly honestly I I'm cece my need for productivity. I'm listening to my desire for my desire to spend more time with my my family. More time I am really involved deeply involved. Almost an employee with this nonprofit in what is the twenty only five year goal for that nonprofit wells of life. Yeah that's what what is it. That's what the that's what the and I have to work work through. I know I know nick very well and nick and I be working together on a number of different projects about that. What's the twenty five year goal? Is it just to stay. Okay and in Uganda. Is it to move into other countries. What is the twenty five year ago? What would it look like? Everything fell into place twenty five years from now. If everything fell into place in twenty five years from now and walls of life I would. I would probably not be at this point point and advocate of moving into other countries. I would just say Uganda's big enough. Okay if we could solve the water problem in Uganda. How many which is towered? He village forty-three million people. Okay how many wells. How many wells would it take? Well if one well does a thousand people okay then and you would have forty three million in its population is going to increase. I'm not great at math off the top of my head. But that's but that's is. My challenge is to come up with those that that twenty five year goal or a ten year goal but a long term goal. Then the next question would be. What's our three year picture? What's IT GONNA look like a short three years from that and once we have that and everybody you wanted to talk about vision vision in means everybody in the organization knowing exactly where the organization's going and how it's GonNa get there so this is what it looked like three years from today and then once we know that we all agree upon it? Then what's our plan for the next twelve months and once we agree upon that. What are the three to five things that have to get done in the next twelve months to move toward that three years? Then what are we going to the next ninety days in your In your experience who makes that decision and the leadership team now the visionary can say this is what I want and once the visionary or the owner or the CEO is is very clear about what they want then they find people who can see it with them. I have a client right now. The visionary is saying I want it to be an eight million dollar. Accompany her team. She tells me is saying We can't see that we got to be a six million dollar company and she was getting ready to say well. Well I guess that's what we have to have and I said to her. Maybe you got the wrong people. If they can't see it or they don't know how to do that. Maybe there's people in the world who could see it and can help you get that. But that's who the visionary recruits to be on that leadership ship team will. Don't you think there can be a A sort of remodeling refreshing the visionaries vision vision because sometimes visionaries are really unrealistic. Well that that's the conversation that goes on and what I want. Always ask excuse if we had the now. The right people hasn't been good or bad but if we had the right people one hundred percent right people right seat in the leadership team. Could we accomplish everything. The visionary hasn't maybe not maybe they just don't exist in the world but I put out out for you Elon Musk. Can we get to Mars. I've worked with with SPACEX. All right. They absolutely Louis believed yes now and every and that is the one thing about Woody Allen is done yes every single employee even people sweeping the floors making a hundred all wear t shirts under presented top to bottom. We believe we can get there. Weakened see it all right now. If you didn't have those people you'd never get to Mars now. Alon is is like Dan Sullivan. It's not a matter of whether we actually he actually lives two hundred fifty six and Ilan. It's not actually it if he doesn't get to Mars that's not the most important thing most important thing is right. Now what are we living into. And Alon is living into a tesla and every every Karaj on the moon and lots of tiles on lots of of solar tiles so at home right or Dan Sullivan will say the same thing. I'm not I'm not going to hold up a banner that I got to one hundred fifty six and by the way one hundred fifty six means that he will have lived one full century. Been Live for one full century from two thousand from from Two thousand one to two. What two two fifty two to twenty one hundred all right? That's that's his goal now so he in what he says. It's not a matter of me having to you. Get there if I fail. It's how I'm living right now. Which means he's up in the morning burning a thousand calories before breakfast every day in order to keep his body going until one hundred and fifty-six like Peter Demand he's got a a regimen of what he eats? I mean what he what supplements he takes like like a bulletproof coffee Dave asprey. He's very clear about what he eats and what he doesn't eat. All aimed at all aimed aimed at one hundred fifty six. He right now has a program of riding one short book every ninety days. Yes and that's a book that can be read in one hour. which is the time that would fly from one of his officers in Toronto to Chicago? All right but that's how how he is staying on target to be productive at one hundred and fifty six and it's the same way once we get really clear about where we're going. We find the people who want to go there and have the capacity the God given skill set to help us get there. You know that sounds very familiar with a book. I wrote twenty five years ago. It was titled getting the Right Things Right personal strategies for reinventing the life you want serve why not and and it had and it and it was based on four principal. I call them. The four people are for people for for PS passion purpose people and power. And why does that stop at sixty nine. It doesn't stop nine nine doesn't but but it but it has been It's not quite so active. Live in the business environment. I really don't I grew. I grew a bit weary of the business environment. I like the non-profit but environment. I don't see any big difference between business and nonprofits because most successful businesses to my way of thinking are not there to make money. That's the investor is trying to make money most businesses are. They're successful bizzare there to to serve somebody else successful businesses. This is are there to serve. And what's what is the difference. Between that and the nonprofit there is no different so getting really clear on what our purpose purpose is. What's our passion our caused? What is it that we do as a business and focusing on that? It's not to make another dollar for the owner. There's something else that draws those people together I saw it. The last two days at the octane A. M. T. I f. conference where had all these people who were dedicated to creating new products and services in the in the biotech field in order to improve patient results and patient care. That's amazing. I mean just amazing to see this. That was their intention over and over ahead. A company in that blew my mind when it came down to talking about. What's what's the purpose of this construction firm they were in Dayton Ohio and I was working with them remotely and said okay? So let's talk about your purpose. They say oh. We're very very clear about that. Really what is the purpose it. We have one hundred twenty five people in our company and our purpose as a company is to make certain that every one one of those people retire successfully financially independent. I thought you were construction company. That's what we do in order to accomplish opus our real purpose. Yeah but then. That's isn't that isn't that sort of In conflict flicked with your idea of people having purpose of accomplishing things past retirement. That was what their purpose was now. What the folks folks did after they finished working for the construction company it seems to me? That's where the real challenge for them is now. They have a platform they have. They don't have to worry. Worry about what am I gonNa do to put food on the table now. They've got a place to really begin asking. Why do I love doing what's my passion? What do I want to do for for the next twenty five years? What kind of impact do I wanna make what sorts of what sorts of Um Clues or or guidelines do you help people at say at seven years old retired and really don't know what to do. You would think the first thing I mean you you have in your book. You've talked about it. I mean what is your purpose. What's your passion? What are you excited about? What turns you on and how many people don't know that? Do you know how many people die. Because they didn't have any reason to get up in the morning and knowing no I mean it's a lot What I'm assuming? It's a lot. Well I think for him. So how do you how how daddy you I get this question. Asked of me quite frequently. How do I discover my purpose and my passion? I D- I have. I have purpose. Is I define it by two simple criteria. Now it's much more complicated than to simplify terrier but one what do you do well l. And what do you love to do. We call that your unique ability. What is your unique ability? Union alone are gifted at doing right and when you find that when you find that unique ability that's what you WanNa do every day. You WanNa do that. Plus everybody's coming back to you saying you are great at that. We really love you doing that now. In a religious sense that used to be called. What are your spiritual gifts right right and spiritual gifts programs? Were you talk about what. Here's here's a list of twelve fifteen thirty wherever you want to find it in in the in the Bible but here's a list of spiritual gifts yes which one of these turn you on and then let's see if you get any feedback from people that yes you do a good job at that. But it's this dialogue between what's going on inside I'd you and what's effective contribution. That's getting good feedback. That's where you begin to find your passion. He began to attract people to help you do it. Yeah I think I believe as you insinuated just now that your passion is a derivative of view of your purpose a web -solutely absolutely because because that's what you become passionate about and people are are thinking often when it comes hamster passion not passionate about doing something in providing something for people but they get into this artistic realm will what am I passionate about my passionate passionate about painting or writing or or some sort of artistic field and passion is so much more passionate as what turns me on. mm-hmm what am I excited about. I can tell you I just came away from a three hour. Meeting with a local manufacturing company and I was so excited about solving two issues for for them. We spent three hours working on two issues and when we finished it was like wow this for them it was wow. This is so helpful because we've been struggling with that for six months. Part of my unique ability is to simplify and get it onto the whiteboard and let them work on it and keep asking questions. That's part of my unique ability. I love doing that and I get a lot of good feedback from people that I work with about how effective that was in helping helping them move forward so that for me. I do that for the next twenty five years. I'm having a ball. Don't you think that's a Almost a per weck was it. But it's not necessarily popular and that's bill ability in popular among consultants. You know when you when you talk. I don't want a bad name. Companies but when you talk about the deloittes in the andersons and all the big companies they come in and with a boatload of expertise a boatload of personnel and a boatload of costs that are involved with it and yet. I think that that the ability to simplify is probably one of the most important criteria of a consultant. Well I gotTa tell you. I'm not a consultant I'm an implementer of a program and this was put together. I Gino Whitman in Detroit about seventeen years ago because he was struggling with the same thing I've struggled with for years is why is it that some people get what they want from their businesses in others don't and and when I called him for the first time because one of my clients that I've worked with Well end up getting a company got sold because we're doing so well and they came back a year later and said you know we'll I'm now the GM of not only my company but now four companies that they bought what and he said. We're using the same call. Eos and he said. This is so helpful. And I asked him why because it simplifies so I picked up the phone and call algae no and said let's talk and I discovered that what he discovered was that there are six key. Competencies that if you are strong in every one of those. A lot of the hundred and thirty-three problems that most businesses feel all fall into place in. Its everybody having a clear sense of what the vision is this shared by all. We all know where we're going how we're going to get there. You have one hundred percent of the people right people in the right seat right. People means they agree with the values of the company. Right seat means they get it. They want to be doing that job and they they have the capacity to do. Yeah getting the right data data that you can use use to make decisions so it's not based on opinions or or industry norms but it's the data about our business and then issues because once you get really clear about the vision vision you got the right. People got data coming in the whole company becomes transparent and when you have transparency all the problems all the obstacles pickles all the hindrances bubble up and your job is to learn how to set those issues up and knock them down forever so coming up with way of dealing with those issues and then processes and that's one of the things we did today was get really clear. The problem in that company is they don't have a clear set of processes for their manufacturing and four their communication for their meetings all the way through the getting really really clear the processes and finally traction those are the six areas that the six key competencies that when they're strong. The company succeeds began its expectations in and that's true of of a Prophet Organization and a nonprofit organization. Oh absolutely lever. Both there they overlap. That's right that's I had I had an opportunity. It seemed like when I was working with. I did a lot of work in oil. And it seemed like I always had the engineering groups. The engineering groups would come to me and asked me to come in and help them. Create create much of what you're talking about and create create vision but a lot of it was process. He's in a lot of moves process-oriented oriented and engineers in my history in my personal history. Have a very difficult time making a decision vision because they never have enough information right. Never have enough data they yeah they never have enough data so so what I would do is I would create create these really simple processes these simple spreadsheets. Put them up on a whiteboard. Work it through and we'd make a five million dollar decision in right and ninety minutes and they've been working on it for ninety days and that's why that's why I say I'm not a consultant. I have a system that Gino Whitman put together call. Traction call the entrepreneur operating system. I'm just a dumb guy with a marker sure I follow that system they can choose what parts they wanna use them what parts. They don't want us but the best practices are used the whole system. And for for me. I just ask a bunch of questions because I really don't know I'm not a manufacturing consultant. I'm not a financial consultant. I'm not an HR consultant Alton. I'm a dumb guy with a marker going to get it up on the board and you're GonNa tell me facilitator. Absolutely yeah I I've you'd my role primarily as a facilitator and every now and I would consult because I if I happen to know something but it would always be open you know. Don't don't take my. Don't take my word for it. This is your your choice. I want to move into another subject but before I do. We need to take a quick break. uh-huh hi this. Is Charlie hedges. You're listening to the next chapter with Charlie and I am honored to have have with me. Well crist who at seventy one years old. I'm seventy three now. Oh Jeez old man. He's got three years is on me so it's not an old man and he's got a twenty five year life plan which is which is intriguing and any? He plans to live much longer than that. But what I WANNA talk to him about. We've been talking about what it takes to execute a life that matters there's an executed businessman we've been largely on business and and I'm going to change US over to individuals rather than businesses Mrs and because these principles that apply for principal that that apply for business absolutely apply for individual life. And and I'm GonNa talk about change will you. After College. This elect a A career path of of priesthood. And then at some point you move to to facilitating zillow. Tainting helping organizations understand how they can be more profitable how they can be more impactful effective and be more. Aw Cohesive all right so let's let's think about that I I after college I went onto seminary and Went Back my where. I came from Texas a dialysis of West Texas fiscal devices. West Texas was ordained a priest. Now there's there's lots of different ways that priests exercise their ministry and I wound up in south Texas in a little town called Edinburgh where it happened to grow up as the vicar of a small congregation which I found out later on had been on the list of congregations to be closed because they were not very effective so I not knowing that went in and did exactly the things you just got through talking about. We helped get get a clear vision about where we wanted to go. We talked about holding each other accountable for accomplishing the various steps of that vision and that became a self supporting parish. It started a day school which I my wife I I met my wife. She was the head of the day school that we put together. And it's still functioning very well What is it now? Forty years later as a self supporting perish and and a day school in Edinburgh Texas. Now what happened along. The way was as I move forward in this clergy career. You're in congregations. Is I found that the larger and Longer that congregation had been there the more bureaucratic it was in the slower. It wanted to move now. Fortunately for me that little town in Edinburgh was two hundred and twenty five miles away from San Antonio which was the see city which was where the Bishop was and they didn't really care a whole lot about us but they did support us when I needed a typewriter. The bishop was there a week later with a typewriter for us is one of the electric selectric typewriters right right but he was there. He supported us us moving forward but we were far enough away so that nobody really cared what we did so we were free to be very entrepreneurial and what happened happen to me as I got fired a couple of times I began to realize wait a minute. I'm an entrepreneur church. At least the Episcopal Church does not seek out entrepreneurial clergy no in fact fact if your entrepreneurial you may not fit in was pretty much true with any major I was in particular. One was the episcopal PISCOPO church and so that meant to me. Oh if I'm going to continue to be a priest I have to find a way to exercise my ministry without getting fired so this is this is it seems like you came up with with vision traction and health long long before that became. That's what I said when I call Gino. I found out that we've been working on the same project. Why is it that some leaders leaders of organizations get what they want and others don't and so what I did? Is I discovered. My Ministry is with with entrepreneurs now there are some entrepreneurial clergy that I work with but there's also entrepreneurial business people now between you and me Charlie. I believe that Jesus were in my shoes. He'd be doing what I'm doing. Well that's wonderful that you believe that because I'm helping helping people get really clear about what they want and how they're going to get there and it's really freeing them up to move forward and most often it has to do with purpose 'cause or passion which to me is is is this is the most significant part of being a human being is doing doing what you're called to do what you were sent to do what you want to be doing. Yes and and and and no matter how grandiose or small all it is if this is what Jesus is calling you to do. Yeah and this is the way you have been gifted You know or diagonally or daily the DNA aid. Yes then you are right in line with where you're supposed to be so let's don't make our audience thinking they've got to start. It's giant Inc.. I mean one of the time that I was fired. I thought I had done something wrong and I did. A year of therapy with a very good friend turned out to be very good friend and at the end what she helped me to understand. I didn't do anything wrong. It had to do with the organization itself in the leadership. How how is doing it? I was doing something right but it didn't fit with what they wanted. And so that's when I began to look around for where the places is where what I want to do is what that organization wants me to do and so I would not for the life of me go into every congregation and say this. This is what you ought to be doing but I do ask questions. Do you want to grow. Do you want to your place where you want to be helping people to WHO Learn learn what it is to grow into a deeper relationship with. Jesus do you. Do you want to be known as a place. That's going to be serving the community and if it is how do we do that. And that's what I love about Nick Jordan because Nick Jordan came to the place where he wasn't successful role as a real estate developer the depression of course he did he but he didn't make it through that no oh and what he discovered was when other passion what Jesus wanted him to do. And that's what I'm excited about. That's what I love about. The barnabus group is and that's where I met. Nick was this puts that question out there over and over what are called to do now out. Now here's the here's a question for our listeners that they can really be be helped on and that is just. We're talking a lot about the concept except change. This is changing the way you think changing the way you behave modifying your your passions and you're and clarifying your purpose but people are afraid of change. Well people don't people get get stuck and get happy and doing what they're doing even if it's hotted I phrase it even if it's not really productive Sort sort of a sort of an unproductive or imperfect president is better than an unknown future. Let's think about what we learned in first and second grade. What did we learn? There's a right answer. There's a wrong answer right if you get the wrong answer. You've done something bad all right now. In my practice there is no such thing as failure ever we either achieve the goal. We set out to do we either. Do what we said we would do or we are learning how to do it. We never her fatal yes always. We are learning so for me. Change is not it's not binary it's the process that were always moving through everything. Think about it. I mean when we got in our car to come up to the studio today the temperature one temperature when we walk down the temperature is going to be different when I was in. Laguna this morning leaving. There was no wind. I got up to your. Belinda was tremendous Indus wind when I went into the building when I came out it had died down. Changes always there in what our task is. Our opportunity is is to learn how to live with that change in ourselves and not get caught up on. How do I fix it? So that's the same every every time. That's the big mistake that we have made. It's how do we adapt. How do we move through this change? which is always there? And who told us that we are supposed to work until fifty five sixty five seventy and then you stop. Do you know who told the Stat. Roosevelt before Roosevelt. It was in Detroit where they said. How are we going to get these people to work for thirty years turning the same bolt every day? Well here's what we'll do. We will promise them if they go through this rather horrendous life that at the end they'll be able to anything they want to do because we'll give him this pension right yes and do you know how they set up the pension rules. They anticipated that no one would live three years longer after their right retired. Sixty five right now. Where did we get the idea of retirement? In fact I've learned from Dan Sullivan. Never use the word retirement because the word in retirement is a call to the universe to come pick up some useless material. Yeah I'd I'd I. I went through that in retirement and I really they went through with through. I did quite a bit of writing on it and PODCAST on it and I call them my battle with boredom because I'm so used is to doing something and being impactful and then to move to Situation where what do I do now was a that was a very difficult transition. I think people entering the so called. I don't like the phrase retirement either but people people entering into what is that phase are facing the same difficulty. There's no such thing as retirement. There's one of two things there's either what's the next project act or death right. You know what you're talking about is What I've what I've been listening listening to and I read in Richard Roars latest book? He ever so Christ yes absolutely absolutely yes just. I think it's the most important book. Yes in Christianity probably. Here's his three years into his podcast. Yes I was listening to it on the way over. Yes we're here he talks. There's a lot about transfers transactional versus transformational yes and what you're talking about his transformation -solutely and historically we're talking about transaction. Yes and that means tit for tat. You do this. You get this you do this. You get that transformational is thinking we need to reorder order. It's I ordered then reorder and I've forgotten the third one that goes after that I don't know there's order reorder but we're in the reordering phase and so we're talking about sort of sort of really adjusting. Our personality adjusting eighteen. Our our our deepest drives and that we have been inculcated with for sixty five years and and say this is not true and and we're now finding it as a as a financial as a financial truth that people cannot retire on on social security and they need to find some kind of other income unless they've been fortunate to save be part of a pension well but that that to me see. That's part of the change that moves forward. What's my project? What am I doing? I mean think of Nick Jordan. All Right Nick Jordan wound up with nothing in his bank account. Right right yeah and many people did as well. What did he do? He began to. He took the school said that he had visited with for many years in Uganda and he said what do they need. Oh my goodness look the women here. They're spending their entire life. It's just carrying water and the water they carry is is not healthy if you will if you could see you would be I understand why you wouldn't want to dip your fingers in I understand. Yes that filthy. Yes but what they have in what he said is I can make a difference. Now is the has. Nick missed any any Any meals I've got a roof over his ahead. Yeah is he got somebody that he loves and somebody who loves him and something to bounce out of bed in the morning to do absolutely now what do you mean. I can't live on my social security. Of course not it's what am I going to. What kind of contribution of GonNa make in the world? I mean Marsha senator telling Paul before we start Martius in Atar taught assist thirty years ago do what you love. The money will follow right there. There is more money out there right now. Just in grants that are available to solve problems every year it goes unused because people haven't connected connected their hearts to the problems along with their abilities and their skills see that is the move from transactional transformation absolutely I the Rotary Club. Newport Sunrise Rotary Club is Is the place in southern California for the grants. It's been ship program. We have access to a software program that lists every grant that's available in the country and all you gotta do is go over and start looking for it and money is available. Yeah Yeah it's we have found this much more complicated located in that in that applying for the grants as a complicated that becomes part of the. Who Do we need here not how to do it? And that's what I have found. It's another thing Dan taught me. It's not a matter of how to do it. It's the WHO rather than the right person because there are people out there. Yeah right now. Who Know How to get grants? They are doing it right now. Finding those people connecting them with the project in this case with Uganda and water order connecting them with that and then putting to work. Yeah exactly and and how many people right now are saying. Gee I don't know what I'm GonNa do next and have those skills that would be a. Yeah that's that's that's really tremendous I I I think something something really needs to be done for people that have hit this retirement phase and have no idea what they're going to do. It's telling them there's no such thing as retirement. You got a choice choice. Yeah you've got a choice. Let's find a place where you've got projects that you are now needs and even if it's not as as as large and impacting is your projects it can be. It can be family projects I can be think for a moment. My wife works one of one of her tasks. Fox's is to be in charge of an outreach center in Riverside in what chief found out was the homeless folks some of them coming out of the park getting off of meth or alcohol right. Some of them coming out of tr- traumatized childhoods some of them when when she she begins celebrating birthdays with birthday cakes. That were donated birthday for people. There were people there who were forty fifty the sixty years old who had never ever had a birthday party. Oh my God came out of Foster Foster Child Program Program in. Where was I just re yesterday? Hearing from One of the UCI neuroscientists assists and his name will come to me in a moment but what he said was. His studies showed that trauma between zero and three years of age in the family can affect that person for the rest of their life. Yeah I had always heard you know. There's the famous comment comment by Adolf Hitler who said give me a child till seven. I only for the rest of the Jesuits said that about as well. So it's it's that's the whole point is that is that if your project what is passionate for you is is working with your grandchildren or in my case is by great grandchild. Then that's a passion that's a project that is valuable. You don't know how much what a great contribution attribute that can be to that child for. Who's for whom parents may be in two jobs and that child may find great satisfaction faction in great nurturing? Just in you being there but if that's your passion you're going to be bouncing out of the bed in the morning to do that. Yeah and you know I I like that and I think I think I WANNA provide clarity to that that for our listeners. That for me personally you were asking for me personally. I don't work I. I don't work ten or twelve hour days. I I never did when I was working. I you know I I was paid well and I worked twenty to twenty five hours a week and the rest of the time twenty hours a week. I spent coaching baseball and doing doing what I like doing. That must have had a pretty big impact on somebody close to you seven. I have seven. That played for me. Seven Major Major League Baseball player. There's colleges that don't have seven major league. It's at a project. It was just fun. But but that's what unique ability is about. It's not the matrix out there telling you what to do. It's you telling you what to do and you find out what to do in part by. What is fun for me now I want to go? It's we're we're running out up time and I WANNA finish up a last question and it's going to be a different direction because it's an important direction to me and and we've talked about tasks transformational things of things that we that we can change and and projects in our mind projects in our life and I've been in touch with your assistant jen by email WHO speaks so kindly of your kindness and the pleasure. She has an enjoy working with you. So you must be a very very pleasant man to work with now. I I understand that my question I'm GonNa ask could be podcast on its own but but I'm sure we can. We can keep it down but I wonder in your opinion. What is the role of character in venturing into a life that matters? I suppose it's it's not it's not a world that I don't think a lot about character Richter I think about intention I think about compassion. I think about Other centeredness I mean. Can you tell a story about Gen. My sure sure That she was a gift to me three years ago. fellow from I did I had known from Santa Anna Chamber of Commerce whereas speaking we got to know each other he works with goodwill and helps place people who are have some limitations and I said to him at one point. I always have projects. I have lots of things that I can put people to work on. So let me know. So he called hold up about three months later and said look. We'll I have somebody here now i. She has a master's degree and family and What marriage and family counseling She has a bachelor's degree. She is excellent on computers. Better than you and I put together and and I gotTa Tell You She she has gone on seventy eight seventy eight job interviews and no one offered her anything. I said that's amazing. Seventy seventy eight. I said this woman is persistent. He said yes she can only. She's got muscular dystrophy. She he can only move to fingers on your left hand. She's an electric wheelchair. Has Twenty four hour nursing has a You know she breathes with what is it with a ventilator But what do you think and I said well. I'm a good boy scout. I'll be happy to try so so we met. She came with her entourage of her nurse and came in with And my first thought was. Oh my God I'm a good boy scout but is this gonNA work in. What I found out was that putting her to work meant that she did everything that I needed to have done? Now I'm a what's called a quick start the Colby assessment. I'm a quick start. I'd jump in the pool. The deepened the pool and learn how to swim on the way down. She is a follow through and a fact finder. Wow after working with her for Six months I said Jin look you have followed through all of these things you. You've came up with facts that I needed to know to make decisions. Asians I want you to take over my calendar because as you know as a consultant as a facilitator making all these calendar calendar dates and somebody wants to change and move this up huge amount of time and I said I want you to take it over. She did perfectly on it. I I wound up getting thirty five percent of my time back after January she. I said you've done such a great job. I want you to take over my email now. I don't know about let you but used to be. I'd open up my email and getting ninety new messages every time I opened it up and they were all well done by marketing professionals and they got my attention. Wow I said I want you to take over. She came back a week later and said you now have four buckets. One is your money anything has to do with money. We'll go there. Another is information and you can read that on the weekend if you want to another is your your social things like facebook and linked in and another one is will for will to respond and if you just take care of the will to respond. That's all you need to do. I'll take care of the rest. She has narrowed down on all of the things that I really didn't need to be talking to and I found out now that I've got another twenty five percent of the time back to me now. Seventy eight people looked at her and said we don't have a place for her so there what what I what I'm hearing and please correct me if I'm if I'm not hearing this properly but that you have found a way in business has to to integrate character with Competence and that you hired her out of a good character and and trying to try to do a good deed. She proved competent impotent. And the character part just comes in between and flows in between two after the first two months that she was there. I said head tour John. You've sunk such a good job. This is really. I'm impressed with all the things you're doing. I said I really want to hire you because it was. You know the The the process while she was an intern for year and somebody that goodwill paid for it so I didn't have to pay anything the first year And I said Jin you're doing such a good job. I want to hire you the next September at the end of the time. The end of the internship. But you know If you'll help me maybe I can shape the job to to fit you so would you could. Would you help me to just tell me what your limitations are which is spend some time next weekend and make a list of your limitations and then let me see if I can shape the job to fit you. She said Okay so the next Monday she came in and I said did did you do it. She said absolutely. I spent three hours. He's making a list of all the things that are my limitations and I said okay. I've got my legal legal pad here. Tell me what they are and she looked at me she said I don't don't have any limitations. Wh what do you mean. You don't have any limitations. Jim You can move to fingers of your left hand. You're sitting in a in a wheelchair. You gotTA ventilator. What do you mean you have no limitations? She said I have no limitations in my frustration. I said all right. You see that big box of it is like six feet long three feet high. I said that box has fifty three ring binders in it. They're tightly wrapped in bubble. Wrap they need to be on you. See that space over in the wall. That's where bookshelves. She needs to go where those books. Those three ring binders needs to go and she said Oh you you want those three ring binders onto a bookshelf. That I'll probably have to order and assemble. I said Yeah I know it was kind of gruff and I said that I walked down three days later came back. And what did I see in the office. There was the shelf that had been ordered and assembled every three ring binder was on it and all the trash was gone and every shelf had a label on it and I said Gen. Did you do this. And she said yes I said I I don't believe it. How could you do that? You cannot leave your your your your electric trich wheelchair. She said people do not understand for thirty five years. My hands and my feet beat have been my nurses I have no limitations. Wow so she did that all herself. Her nurses did it for her all. Oh Okay and that's where she said I have no limitations -tations because I have resources. I took the resources that I need and that's what I do. I have given her enormous amounts of responsibility ability and she has done them. Eighty five ninety percent of the time perfectly. Yeah she's very kind to t e mail. I have people who say to me. I am so impressed with your assistant. How do I find somebody like her? That's great policy. Told me I've said the same thing instead. You're you're assistant is incredible. Yes well we've run out of time. Well Chris Thank you for visiting with me today. I think we have given given hope to a lot of people and given given the idea. I love your idea of I. I Love Jen's idea you have no limitations limitations you have no limitations you you you. You may have obstacles but there's but that is part of life that's what obstacles and it's overcoming obstacles in Kennett. Can I suggest we get rid of another word. Hope abandoned. Its over my session room. It says abandoned all. Hope when you come in here hope means. I'm not sure I can do it because there's no failure it's either we succeed or we're learning and so tell me that you're going to do it and we either achieve it or we're going to learn how to do it. Is There A. Is there a a a a synonym that you use instead of hope We're GONNA to do it goal. This is what we're GONNA do okay. Let's close fat that there is Hope can be not a limiting words. Absolutely I'm not sure that I can do it. I'm not really committed to it. I hope I'm GONNA do it. Yeah you never see that in a vision statement to you know we hope is a matter of fact when I would help companies right their vision statements. I never let them use a future. No we will be will be we are we are. This is who we are. This is what we are and even if we're not we read that and we read the disconnect and we're going to learn how to get there and we're GONNA get your words attraction to move forward. Thank you so much for the broadcast. Thanks for the fun. I want to thank our listeners for tuning into the next chapter with Charlie and be sure to check out our website the next chapter dot life and until next this is charlie hedges signing off by. Now it's cutting into your exercise time it stabbing you in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind it's pain and getting in between you and a life you want to live. CBD Medic targets your pain at its source it's fast acting relief with active OTC ingredients plus the added benefits of THC free hemp oil. Get back to your life with CBD medic available online at CBS. These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA this product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any disease. It's cutting into your exercise time. It stabbing you in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind. Aw It's pain and it's getting in between you in the life you want to live CD medic targets your pain at its source. It's fast acting relief with active OTC ingredients plus plus the added benefits of T._H._C.. Free Boil get back to your life with C._B._D. medic available online and at C._B._S.. These statements have not been evaluated by the F._D._A.. This product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any disease.

consultant Nick Jordan Dan Sullivan Charlie hedges California Uganda Dan Chris Peter Demand Gino Whitman Dave asprey Alon Detroit principal jen Dan I Dan his Edinburgh Jim You
#147 Conversations in Quarantine: Sherry Benjamins: Life in Times of Uncertainty

OC Talk Radio

1:00:32 hr | 1 year ago

#147 Conversations in Quarantine: Sherry Benjamins: Life in Times of Uncertainty

"Welcome everybody's time once again for the next chapter with Charlie hedges as he explores turning the page on his life and your hey charlie hey ball so tell me how are you holding up in this life of an introverts dream. I stay home. Do a bit of work read right. Set Night Watch a movie. You know I've been like we said last week. I've been preparing for this my entire life so I'm much more of a people person I'm used to being in studio and and it's all everybody's right there so it's it's adjustment here you know and I think we're all GONNA figure out. This is something that we're going to continue to do more of or is this. Just we just GONNA go right back to the way things were. I don't know well you know it's I. I have a feeling it's going to be somewhere in between probably that we are certainly not going to go back to the way it was before. But it's not going to be exactly the way it is now but who knows I I I have. I have elected to not do any predictions of what things are going to be in the future because we are in such uncertain times in the future is equally or more more more more word of my thinking of mysterious certain. Yeah I do I do. I do recognize that not. Everybody's living in an introvert stream for most people. This is not the dream world but it is one of chaos and a great need to get it out socialize. Their work you know. Resume Life as normal and yet. We're stuck for awhile. You know some people are saying eight weeks ten weeks you know. I think that's in my opinion. I think that's that's optimistic. You GonNA thoughts on that. I think it's GonNa go into make clearly. We're doing this at the early part of April and our hope that somehow would just be three or four. Weeks is probably unrealistic. Simply because how do we know? When it's over without testing everybody to we just sort of base it on hospitalizations and g their numbers coming in the hospital last. So I guess it's safe and we peak her head. I think it's GonNa be slow because raw going to be nervous for do e media run back to work. Do we immediately rehire. Everybody do we. I think it's GonNa take a while to press to feel safe going out so I think that's the two issues. How do we know when it's over? And how quickly will we feel safe to resuming? Yeah I I I concur. I think those are the two major issues and and one. How do we know that it's over when our testing and our data is so So lacking in in in its its accuracy. You know there's so many more people that have the the virus that just haven't been tested for him because we don't have adequate testing facility that someone. I can't wrap my head around. I can go get tested on ancestry tomorrow and find out my Dna where my ancestors came from. I don't know why they can't come up with something. Quick easily easily distributed drive through mail out whatever I know. I know. It's probably more complicated than I think it is. But it can't be that complicated to get millions of these test kits out there and and we should clearly have thought of this. Sooner earlier whoever lasted strength is learning experience. I don't I'm not in the I. I refused to get into the blame game. I think nobody really could have predicted this going on. I mean there's so many different threats to our society into our civilization and that you know. Which one do you respond to? Do you prepare for you know we could is. I'm I'm just saying I think I think this was handled. Well in some places and not so well and another you know. Although I'm I'm I hadn't been a fan of newsome until this and I'm giving the man great credit I demand I'm with you. I think I think he's responding. I think the governor's have responded better than the federal government has a federal government started off denying it delaying it. And then deciding. It really was a big deal. And they clearly didn't have enough stockpiles of stuff. They didn't have enough test. I once they put out a wrong all sorts of just miscues. Maybe that happens in any kind of major crisis but we gotta do better the next time because this could come back again more interested in economics than we were exact and and that has since changed well enough of that now. Last week Paul. We began a novel approach to our shows by introducing this thing we're calling conversations in quarantine and we're doing this in response to the suggestion by several thought leaders. They that are suggesting making phone calls to friends. Especially long lost. Friends is a good way to regain some kind of social connection with people we care about and we decided you and I decided to do just that except we are going to be doing live and so I have no. I have a little idea. There's a couple of questions I wanna ask our guest but For the most part I have no idea what we're going to talk about it and today we're GonNa talk to my dear friend Sherry Benjamin's who was on the show just over one year ago now. Cherry is a president of a very influential S. Benjamin company that deals from recruitment to strategy to teams to sales and I love her of her business and Cherries actively involved. In the business of advancing. The human side of it of business advancing the human side of business. I think that's I love that concept. And if I wasn't retired I tell Jerry I wanna come to work fan now. Most interesting factoid is the last time Sherry was on the next chapter. Charlie he you know. Why don't we get Cherry on the line so I can reminder of this? That's enough Sherri Sherri welcome to the next chapter with Charlie? Say Hi to Charlie hedges. Hey No hey you know what? I've been giving a brief introduction because what we kind of want to do is is just jump right into our conversations in quarantine you know you and I talked about that and and I was rehearsing what we did last time and then I said you know before you you were on the show just over one year ago. This is a parole eighth. And you're on the show March eighth. Wow is when is when we produce your show and and I as I look through my notes on that check this out Cheri and it's kind of a most interesting factoid. The last time you were on the next chapter with Charlie we talked about our subject was work. Reimagined and your expertise and consulting with senior management on strategic and worship worker issues and this is what we called it and unpredictable and changing business landscape. Yeah understate was one year ago. My goodness yeah. It's I think If we thought work was unpredictable one year ago. We certainly have up the Antionette game. Now I know for sure well sorry that I took. It took a little time but I have. I didn't realize when we set this well. I did know that. Today's the first night of Passover and so home dealing with Passover virtually so of course none of us in the family or getting together. But we are going to do a call around five thirty. That's an Alex we'll be done before. Then okay good yeah I I. We certainly don't want to interfere with Passover. Yeah kind of strange strange way. Celebrate this holiday for us but I know you pass over US Easter and yeah no day Thursday and Good Friday and all these different things that you know this is. This whole week is dedicated. Yeah but how do you want to How do you want to start? This will let me Let Me Start and you know I'm GonNa. I'm GONNA do some catching up and then I received a newsletter from you that I was most intrigued by there. Were a couple of questions you had in the newsletter. And I thought you and I would play a game. We would answer the questions that you put in the newsletter. Okay we would answer them. Answer them personally because I thought they were really really good questions but first of all he. I'm doing this in response to the suggestions by many that we call somebody and especially kind of a long lost friend but not having contacted much and just to see what's what's been going on and what's been what they've been up to so Tell me what is what is life been like for you in these days of quarantine. Well it's Forced me into this whole virtual world in a way that is not a bad thing actually because I had just launched this millennial group I told you about Peer Learning Group of nine wonderful. Young early career is from nine different companies and when we started it in February I asked them specifically one in the planning stages I ask them. Do you WANNA work Do you WanNa meet monthly in per sooner or do you WanNa meet virtually. Oh No. We don't WanNa meet. Virtually we really WanNa meet in person together really. That's yeah it was so the first meaning. Thank goodness we did meet in person because we got a chance to really know each other and deeply talk about them and their lives and in moments in their life that really helped define them so. It's very introspective. And maybe allow them to be vulnerable for sure. So then February's okay got that march on virtual Zoom call and yesterday was our second virtual call so being forcing myself into this Virtual conference call with a with as much intimacy as you can as is what. I'm learning about now. Being you know probably will be doing the at least another couple months like this So that's kind of intriguing and and then of course is figuring out how to take care of ourselves Mentally and physically. When you're not going anywhere your ear you know. It's amazing with me Sherry is. I'm retired. I volunteer with With a charity that I'm still actively involved in you know virtually not just virtually but by virtual means But but you know I have my blog on my podcast and you know. We're applying for our companies applying for a loan with cares act. And I stay pretty busy. You know it's just it's it's amazing that for retired. Guy. Yeah you know. My my night is busy until about six or seven o'clock at night tender here and there with my morning routine. We'll talk about that later. You know that takes an hour and a half to two hours every morning. So so you know what? I'm curious. Something you touched on now. This may be confidential information if it is and just let me know but her. I don't WANNA know the results but I wanNA. I'm curious the process. You said when you get together with your millennial group which I know you're in love with You get to know each other deeply. What's the process there? How do you? How do you get to know each other deeply that? Don't you know people that don't know each other and they're meeting for the first time? What kind of process do you use to do that? so we. I have a partner in crime on this woman. That wrote that wrote with me on the newsletter. Tammy see cards. She's been working with me on the design and the curriculum for the group. And by the way I don't I don't call them the millennial group except when I am. It's an easy When I talk with someone you know it's easy to say. Oh it's the millennial group but it's an early career professional group and They don't Wanna be called millennials. You know so then. Of course but anyway how we do it. So I chose The Bill George. Authentic leadership work to be the first died in two. Who are these people and I like his work? It's in his book. He had a one of bestsellers was called. Discover your true north. Oh yes I chatted about. That fascinating sounded simple moments. Yes we all have crucible moments in our life right the many of them that really helped define who we are and that is the exercise we used to have them think about those moments in their life and the share them with us and that's a brilliant idea that really does get into some sort of vulnerability and yet. There's something safe about it. It's not so vulnerable. Tell me your your deepest darkest secrets. What is something that it's something? Ed shows a bit of vulnerability but also shows a response to that vulnerable situation. In how you in how you either succeeded out of it or still working on it. Yeah so that was. That was the first Several hours of work with them and then we had games. Wait a minute several hours. How many people nine nine and it took several hours several hours yes Share your good. That's area to be able to get people engaged for that long. That's really that's really amazing. And they really liked each other and it was so you know how these folks which selected I found companies. You know that and I talked to a lot of companies but I found nine that really believed in development for folks early in their career and they said this is the person I want in your group your first group and I didn't know these individuals so when we and I try and the people that the sponsors are people that I know and trust and they know me and I think that was a big part of that so when those nine people came together They had met in December for for just a simple cocktail hour but the real work was in February when they met for the first time to talk about themselves and I was so grateful that they just clicked. They are all yearning for a peer group to really confide in in a trusted way and learn from and admit they have a lot to learn so it was really fantastic that it was a good good chemistry holler around and I imagine therein therein. they're not in competing competing industry. So they don't have to worry about what they share is going to be taken to another rand. Distri I mean we do sign a confidentiality agreement. Everybody did in the room But you're right. They're not in competing industries and they're an entirely different functions. Charlie so one is from finance. When is from data analytics one is from sales? Oh Sherrie so it's not just. Hr people done enough in HR. Yeah so that was really refreshing to have people from all aspects of the business. Tell me tell me two or three things that you find that is different with these early career professionals as opposed to mid and later career professionals will. I think they are way smarter than than we than we were at that age. And in many ways they are just so mature and perceptive. Read everything they They just really absorb it all. So well. And their communication skills are superior so I I know how how how other communication skills superior They communicate a thought and a feeling so they're thinkers and feelers. And I find when I'm working with. Hr people they are predominantly thinkers. Really never thought that. Yeah well you might think that. By nature of the work in human resources they would be feelers. Maybe they operate in a feeling manner but what I've learned is that when we find them all in the same room together and they're in the same function. They moved to their thinking hat. When you know what do I know? How can I demonstrate that I know would I suppose to know? And so there's more of that and less of this is what it feels like when I'm starting out on a new project and I'm really struggling with the balance of when to ask for advice or when I should do it on my own. The millennials are quick to say. I don't know I I'd like to be able to ask that question. That's important to me. So I find the Moore Open and Refreshing in there's not any pretense behind what they're saying because they're just saying I'm I'm new at this and they're seeing some things I'm really good at but there's some things that I'd like to learn more the other thing that they say that I don't hear from the more experienced people is kind of mind. I want to know how all the pieces fit together. I'm curious about the business. And how the strategic direction is set is. I'm curious because I don't have all the answers on that. And maybe the senior people that I work with Might have that question in their mind but they feel like they should know it right. They would never say in a room you know. I do wonder about the strategic direction sometimes because we get mixed messages. They don't say that they don't that. I just wrote a post I believe it was my last post I should remember the titles of my post. Oh change here. It comes again And and I wrote something about that. There are three words that are absolutely critical in these times. And that is. I don't know they're just they're just. There's so many things. Yeah we're going to talk about your your acronym that I read in your lose newsletter of VOCA which which I had no or little idea what that means winning. But it's it's intriguing But but I got myself sidetracked so I forgot where I was at Opening the I don't know and you know we are. We are living in such a world of uncertainty especially now but we were living in a world of uncertainty before cove in nineteen And now it's just exacerbated. Yeah Yeah Yeah why don't we? Why don't we get a I? Don't even know how long we've been on the show right now. I should be keeping time. I know where we could be entering a break but not because I really want to get into questions but I I think before I do it you explain to me. Voca and it just struck such a chord with me and I had to look up the acronym because I did not know what the acronym but can you. Can you talk to us a bit about that? Acronym yes in in a you know when. I wrote the story. I didn't define it in the first of three. Lose the second newsletter. You're going to see at the end of this month. I I actually interviewed Bob Johansen. Who introduced me to the VOCA WORLD? He writes about it extensively because he is a futurist were trends. He calls himself a trends analyst but the analysts not a trend analysts future trends future. Trans Works in an institute a nonprofit up in the bay area and they out at ten year trends ten year forecasts so when they do when they go out ten years from now they then they do every year. They do a ten-year full forward looking projection. They say what do we think is going to be ten years from now and then let's walk back to where we are today and say what will this require us as leaders to learn and be agile in to be ready ten years from now and for many years now as long as I've known him he said we're in we're in the world in the nineteen nineties the army defined Buca they were the first military preparedness was Going to be president on are developed based on what they thought was coming which was a volatile uncertain complex and ambiguous world. And that's how the name the name began and then Bob adapted it as he started writing books about. How do you lead in a volatile uncertain complex ambiguous world? And what will it require? And he you know it's been that way we've had plenty of moments right of uncertainty in our world right and come and complexity And it's so fascinating that now in that he's talked about it for so long and we've we've been entered. Many of us have kind of followed him and his work. Now we're actually in it and We talked to him and in the end of April in this newsletter is on the one coming up about what does this now. What is his current crisis awakened in us to be able to handle this now because now it's not hypothetical anymore so it's really difficult situation and everybody's going to have to adapt and figure out what is my role. What is the individual's role in wanting to shape ourselves and our organizations as we are deeply immersed in this state? Yeah you know. I think it's just I think it's a deeper state because I think when you know a few years ago we weren't of UKA world. I mean we still were. It's just not to the now we're in a radical degree of it or something and and we're having to face that were forced to face the reality of it and how we are going to respond right but I think that is brilliant. volatility uncertainty complexity and ambiguity. There are you know there are some of us. You know. It's really weird. And this is really where. There's some of us that actually enjoy that acronym because what it does is it forces. Someone like me someone. Like me it it just reinforces my view of the world and that it is uncertain and that it is complex and it is ambiguous and it informs my work world my personal world it forms a specially my spiritual world and and how I'm responding there and now we're just wear thrown into it and the future is we don't know right. It's kind of the entrepreneur. We don't know what we don't know and and we're and we're basically every day we get these coves reports that are based on what I would consider faulty data in that and it's not necessary faulty in that but but but it is because we don't know how many Cova cases are really are and I'm not even convinced we know how many deaths there are and it's difficult making decision on unreliable data It is I will say he. He introduces another concept. That I really am beginning to see a change in in the clients that I speak to in these groups He talks about that one of the biggest dilemmas. We'RE GONNA face in this time. Is this tension between being clear versus being certain and what we need. You know what we need is more clarity. We may not ever get to the certainty that we used to feel confident in our trust. Just those numbers. I mean. We don't know so much. Can we be clear about what direction we WANNA take? Or what As you see what's going on in New York you know there seems to be wonderful clarity coming from Komo But we're not. There's certainly a sense of. We're not certain on all of this show. I think we can decide how I'm sorry. Please go ahead. We can decide how we want to be going forward if we'RE GONNA get sticking stuck in the mud on being. I am absolutely certain that we have to go north instead of south. Then that will not service in this New World. Clarity is important. But there's a sense of openness and receptivity they're also critical and there because once somebody has predetermined that they know they can't they can't here in the other any of the evidences or clarity clarity offering opportunities right and so it does does call for an open mindedness. And that's why perhaps your group of early career professionals a much more. Prepare for this than people who are are Midlife for later. Business Life that that but even there being torn apart now and knowing that that things are upside down. You know what I'd like to do here Terry Terry. I'm looking at my thing. Sherry Katelyn talked to Terry so many times. There's an E. R. Y. In there and and I was my mind was. My mind was secondarily on that and primarily on. It's time for us to take a quick break and then we're going to go through some questions that you ask around what you and I to address those questions and compare our responses to that sound to you. Let's take a quick break Charlie hedges and you're listening to the next chapter with Charlie in our new show format that is called conversations. Gorn teen and we are with a quarantined buddy of mine Sherry Benjamin's who is Really as you've already found in the first step is really a great thinker and she certainly helps organizations and strategies in thinking through new thoughts. What is the best way to manage organizations and and I? I just love the work that Jerry does share you. You really do. Such helpful were to businesses. Thank you thank you Charlie. And we have talked about vuko which is which is a turn that we all sort of Syrian our minds of of volatility uncertainty complexity and ambiguity is going to be the way of life for a while now in your in your newsletter and. I Love Your newsletter and Ken Ken our listeners. Get your newsletter or is that just for your clients now we can we. I have About twelve hundred it goes out to but I can add people at any time people that are interested in and they send up. Put It on the show but they soon how. How do they get a copy of that in the on my website? Sp company DOT net. You can go to the blog and say I'd like to be added to your newsletter perfect perfect Put that in the show. Because I think it's worthy and it's just well done in this. It's a very short read. It's not a long long newsletter and it's a very short read but it's always something very intriguing to a really good job ANC you. You're very welcome. And your and your son who is your your mentor in in Is the editor easy editor. He's really done. He's really done a great job. I I love the subtitle in their advancing. The human side of business. I can so identify with that. I think that's a great idea now in this newsletter. Us THREE QUESTIONS. Were posed by one of your colleagues. Tammy Tammy's last name B. Card. See Card be card and she. Isn't she the one that came up with these questions? Yes she did. She's an amazing consultant and executive coach facilitator of provocative conversation with teams endings and organizations. Well it looks like for me suit three questions because I think there are very striking to me now. Three questions I I will. I will tell everybody to three questions. And you and I are going to take each one. And you're going to tell me and I have not rehearsed anything on this so so I will have to. I'm sure you've done more rehearsal than I had that you've actually answered these questions but I will be figuring it out as we go on the first one is. What are you noticing? Or what has this moment of crisis illuminated for you great question? Secondly how is it affecting you personally and professionally and the third question is what questions will you take with you as you move forward? Those are those are really great questions. That obvious can be thinking about during this this quarantine time so. Let's call it the first one Sherry. What are you noticing? Or what has this moment of crisis illuminated for you well? I think that this is now an experience where all having in our own offices living rooms wherever we're working at the kitchen table So we're learning every day about how to navigate here and it is fascinating to me that the independence. We seemed to take In our companies with our organizations Is now really shifted to Inter dependence. You know I mean. We worked individually. We we had our own tribes in our own communities and are groups at work but it just seemed like we were. You know heads down doing what we had to do. Now our heads like picked up of course and we're thinking. Oh my gosh so maybe I WANNA be more connected in a in a more human way with my colleagues and this you know hunkering down in our homes is really illuminating. This need to be connecting right. Virtually an interdependently. That's really interesting. The way you first started that as that is almost counter intuitive is that we wanted to be independent like the independence and now that we have given the opportunity to be independent. We are discovering that. It's not so fun after all right is not so productive after right and his staff and the fundamental. I mean it is a basic fundamental human. Need for social connection we are. We're built to belong your bill to be to belong to a group to something that we I put it A group that we that we can. We're bill to belong to something. That is significant that we consider significant. Yeah doesn't have to be significant anybody else but to ourselves and and but it is it is at first. It is counterintuitive because everything they wanted they now god and saying be care. It's the old. Be careful what you ask for him. I get it. Yep that's true I mean we we many of my F- clients and people I worked with. Were in this react. Twenty four seven. Just push and drive to results environment so many of them are still in a reactive environment because they're trying to figure out how to work with teams all over the world virtually but we are less about isolating ourselves now. I mean you hear more people saying and I'm doing facetime with my friends. Happy Hour. I'm you know were cooking meals together. zoom I watched what they're doing. I mean there's just more of this connecting to the human That we worked with before. But maybe just didn't know as well the jets you've seen that is that is so true. And that's and that's kind of like what's going on in your in your early career. Professional group is that they are seeing an interdependence rather than an independence. Yeah would you say that? That's happening with them. Oh absolutely I mean they. They were just starving for up here connection that they just didn't have a chance to build or wasn't available to them and their their corporate environment that makes us because wise person understands. I think the first thing that a wise person needs to understand is that I can be wrong. And if you if you if you can't accept that we've got a long way to go if you think everything you say is right you know. You've you've got a long way to go as a leader and as just as a person in society that that I had a bishop wants. Tell me when I had I had some pretty. I came from a conservative background. Religiously and I moved into a more liberal background or more liberal sort of sort of religious group and and the Bishop I met with the Bishop and I was kind of presenting some of my concerns about about the liberal status and he said Charlie you know we believe in the same source you know. We believe in Bible and he says and we believe the Bible is not wrong but he says we are human beings and we take our faith with modesty and humility knowing that we can be wrong and that was bishop you know and it just it really rang true and and that has gone beyond my religious life to all of my life in that knowing at all times. I can be wrong and I if I walk into a scenario like that an open minded and open to the feedback and concerns of others. It takes me a lot a lot. Further takes me along a lot further away and it's healthier for all of us more genuine. We takes a lot of pressure off of you too. Yeah warriors although although it's not for those that are still in the EGO building period of life. It's not great for the Eagle Building. Yeah but the other thing that fits into that that I'm seeing now that I didn't see before and you're probably seeing it too is 'cause I'm doing zoom meetings. The first thing we do and assume call how are you? How are you feeling? Tell me what's going on. We didn't do that in pre virus day. We didn't always start a meeting hitting no no way that would be less. I mean wouldn't even be the last question wouldn't even be a preconceived question. It wouldn't even be thought of to ask. So that's that's healthy. That's good that's very that's very illuminating. And and you know what's you know what's been illuminating for me is. It's given me time to to spend to spend more time on things that I want to learn. There's a couple. There's a couple of areas that I I really want to explore and learn more of and I realize now looking at it. I have had time before and didn't really. I didn't have as much time as I have now but I now have but but I had. I had time to do it and and much more intentional about about what I want to learn and how I want to you know I for some reason. Sure I've got this. I've got this negative connotation against grow because it is such an American concept you know growth and productivity improvement. You know it's just they. They become almost false goals. And it's which you know. I want to be better at what I do and I want to be a better person. But there's some things I'm not bad at right now and I need to be able to admit that that not everything I need is under right under the gross improvement area but my areas have been as you know you know my personality and my areas have been in growth in. It's really been a great time for me and and I know for many of my listeners. A great time and growth in spirituality and and a time of confidence in power greater than myself and that doesn't mean I quit working. I just throw everything on his power greater myself I still have. I have my responsibility. I've been given a responsibility and I have that and and pursuing that. So that's been an illuminated thing for me. I hope that people will grow in spirituality and let go of things maybe in the in the part of their life that just did not feed that spirit not feed the soul. Why are we doing that? This is a chance actually right now for us to say you know what I'm giving up on that part of me and I'm going to reclaim the part that I want to be. What I might become is so much more exciting. If I were to build spirituality into my life is as your example. I think we have a chance. Here to spirituality simply you can be religious. You know I mean there's there's I it's it's a sense of what's going on in your inner soul and that there is something there is some source some power something happening that is beyond my ability and the human ability and the human ability to orchestrate. Yeah now there's a lot we can orchestrate. I don't WanNa take that away. There's a lot we can. But the ultimate the ultimate outcome is not wholly dependent upon us. Right right yeah. That's Great Sherry so let's go to. Let's go to question number two and and and I'm curious if your response on this one. How is this time affecting you personally? Or professionally For personal perspective. I think I'm clearly making more time for me and not feeling guilty about it more time for reflection one time for meditation more time to pull out my Ukulele and take an online class And music in appreciate music so slowing down so that I can kind of get the moments versus Oh rushing through the day. So I think it's slowing me down and and having me be what my friend. Jeremy Hunter the Drucker Institute says is being in the Green Zone Are Green. Zone is where we're calm and coherent and we've been reflecting and that's where we WANNA be versus. Maybe being in a different zone where we're maybe stock or eating too many carbs. Although that's easy to do right now eating you know shoes the sole but I guess being in balance you know more feeling that you're more unbalanced with the inside of your mind and where you are in your body we didn't I don't I don't think I made as as I tried to make the time to do that. But I would run to the gym and get that exercise routine in and then run home and make dinner and seemed like we were running a lot but not not necessary. Yes exactly can let go of that. So so what time do you what time you tell me. Tell me what you're what a day looks like for you in this in this new new in this new environment. What time do you wake up in the mornings? I about six thirty. Holy Cow Sherry Dog and the dog reminds me. She's gotTa go out and you know I do that letter. I get up at six thirty six thirty. I do yoga. I have a practice of Yoga and I love that and and that can enjoy the morning and take my time and I right now. I'm not starting calls until nine or nine thirty if I'm doing any calls about emails I'm definitely doing a lot of emails and a lot of reach out. And what does that start at nine or does yeah about nine and about nine? You're not you're not letting you're not letting those distractions get to you in the midst of your Yoga and your meditation. How do the news? Charlie just been really very limited on news. I mean I will look at the news in the evening or Steven will share with me. What the highlights. Where I am really finding that. The news is destructive to my state of mind. I so agree. Yesterday I was reading the news and I got about a third of the way through it and and I and I just had to quit reading. I just you know I get. I get an online newspaper and I just I just deleted it said I. I don't need any of this. Because because it's conjecture and nobody knows anything in half and then at the end so taking care of yourself has to do with Yoga and meditation at the end of the day. A lot of people start in the in the early part of the day. But I find that if I do it at four thirty or five thirty It really helps me kind of move into a different part of the day with Stephen. And oh by the way we do. A four o'clock dance practice every day. Do you because you guys are. You guys are Tango Tango and swing and we don't have our classes anymore so we have our own little practice and then he gets to bring the music he wants for the for one day and then I get to bring music. I want for the next day. Yeah Fun so you do that for thirty minutes. Yeah thirty minutes and laugh and get our bodies moving I do. I am doing exercise during the day. Little breaks some trying to do the routine that might trainer sends me which is hard. But you're making us all look bad sherry. I should've asked you the question. I got to shoot down. You know you do. I do and use an APP or or do you own. I use them head space. That's what I uses. Well which which. Which block are you in right now? I'm in like section to esteem building esteem. I just finished steam. I just I am. I thirty days of his team and now into appreciation. Okay I'd be wonderful Andy Puddicombe. Be as the guy who leads. He's good he's the he's the founder of of head space. Yes how funny. Yeah so so. Mine hasn't changed all that much you know. All of my listeners have early morning routine for I eat breakfast and I don't look at any emails or anything and and then I met at a morning meditation and I will. I will go typically beyond Andy's twenty minutes for another ten minutes and so I'm closer to thirty minutes of meditation in the morning. Then I read something inspirational right now. I'm reading Thomas. Mertens thoughts on solitude which are very deep and I- Journal for Gosh Sherry thirty minutes to an hour then journal on whatever lessons. Come out of that that really hit me and then. I Will Journal on how my life is going. But most of it is based on the writings and how. I want to implement them in my life can Thomas Merton is. I don't know if you're familiar with him. But he's a brilliant contemptuous of prayer and missed. Now I don't know I mean we don't. It's very popular in those circles very live anymore. But he's very well known in those circles and so I spend time doing that and and then I then I will read more during the day. I'm I'm reading instead of reading whole books I'm reading I'm reading books that have That are like books of Essays Mansa. I'm a short I'm short. I'm a sprinter I'm not. I'm on long distance. Runner love short stories and I love essays so those are those are really really great thing for me. So let's go. Let's go to our third question unless you have something you want to add you stack because I like your day now. I'm being consistent with a challenge at times but but Yeah I'm I'm feeling like I'm taking care of myself. Oh I have to tell you. I play my Ukulele after dinner. You really I practice. Did you sing to. Oh Yeah. Of course. We're going to next time we do a show. We're GONNA make you do a song on their country home. I'd say country country road me home to the place I belong everytime you can't okay. So let's let's fight yet with this last question Which is what questions will you take with you as you go forward? So it's a deep question. Yes this is a tough one. I mean I really do wonder what we're going to hang onto and what we're going to let go through this experience. How will it change us who we are I don't really have an answer to that. Is this experience going to yield an insight about what I need from my boss that I have not been asking for? Will I have the courage to have that conversation? That's that is that is really good. I I certainly you know I have. I have many questions that I'm going to take forward with me. And and I'm not going to be seeking certainty but I'm going. I want to seek options and alternatives. Here what are what are different ways we can pursue our life. And how much of this? How much of this viral world at? I say this is GonNa make viral. And we're going to be right about black bit virtual. I keep virtual confusing terms that we're going to be virtual virtual education. Well the need for human connection is just going to you know it's going to make virtual virtual will be used much more. We still need human connection. Read is that is that is critical. And I think that's going to impact artificial intelligence and how we're looking at artificial intelligence and how the human can really relate in all of those affairs. I think it's going to affect the way we work. We will even remote people. We begin to have more office exposure at the same time I am Questions you know there was another question that that I will take forward. And and and that is what what am I. What am I going to be prepared? What am I going? What changes am I ready might? Will I be ready to adapt to that? Are really necessary at one. And then the most and maybe I don't know the most important but is the most probably shocking too strong of a word but most surprising is that I find myself. I think I'm going to get more politically involved and understand that one person and there's only so much I can do and right. I can't change our political landscape but I certainly can't change it if I don't do a damn thing about it if I if I just sit at my home and and complain And and and I really want to be a part of the mix of people that push for a more nonpartisan less vitriolic right less wine in the line. Dinesh Sant lines in the sand of our political parties and more more cooperation and communication. You know that's going to be that's going to be something that's very important to me because I'M A. I'm a republic Latte Republic Croat cat. Or what do we say or or you know. I'm writing I'm right in the middle probably leaning slightly toward the left but I really am of the road sort of person and and I think there's a great many of us in the country probably the majority of us in the country. That's where we are and we have these extremes that gets publicized by the Press. Right right and tires over interesting and you know let's get let's get Anti ANTI WHATEVER GROUP. We want to be a need for for that. That's where I'm going to go. I think that it's that everybody is earnings for more respect and Matt respectful language and an harmony harmony as well as solutions together. I think I'm hoping that that's what everybody's GonNa Choose Another thing that I hope that we answer the question about space. I'm gonNA write a little bit about this. You know her space in our homes is changing. I think the way we think about conversation and our space In our brain and our minds. 'cause we're you know because of this meditation because this time we're giving to ourselves we're we're giving ourselves more space to really reflect on what's important us so the question for the future is. How will you be using space? How do you define it for yourself? I think one of the critical things you just brought up space at home we you know. It's all shared space. Do we have do. We HAVE OR EVENT SPACE. That people need to be left alone right. Are we going? Are we going give each other that privilege and great stuff? Sherri you know we are minutes from Passover and idea to have any more Always great talking with you charly likewise thank you for the really brilliant inside that you you never failed to to bait. You make my day. I'll look forward to chatting and keeping up with you and I'm really interested in your your early professional group. I want to hear more about cat. We'll do that case. So let's let's wrap up Sherri you know I do want to for spending Thank you so much for spending time with me today. Here you are as they said you're great inherent also want to thank our listeners. Tuning into the next chapter with Charlie also be sure to check us out at our website the next chapter dot life and until next this Charlie had just signing off by now you would listen to the next chapter Charley right here in Orange County's only community radio station. Oc Talk Radio Dot net.

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#149 Dena Crowder: Conversations in Quarantine-Surviving or Thriving in Quarantine

OC Talk Radio

57:15 min | 1 year ago

#149 Dena Crowder: Conversations in Quarantine-Surviving or Thriving in Quarantine

"Welcome everybody's time once again for the next chapter with Charlie hedges as he explores turning the page on his life and your hey charlie. Hey Paul show. Today is being recorded on April. Twenty second two thousand twenty and we're more than five weeks into our California state quarantine in which most of us are expected to stay home. Go out only for food. Or what's being called essential needs basically. I'm finding it. It's a never ending home alone or groundhog movie day. Now we continue with the fourth edition of our new series called conversations in quarantine in which I call an old friend that I have not spoken with for months or even years as was the last episode with Caitlin Dome near who I haven't talked with in a decade. Today's conversation we'll be with my personal coach. Dina crowder with whom? I have not spoken privately since last year. Dina never ceases to impress me with their insights into what I call life. The Universe and everything. I can't wait to discover insights of Dina into quarantine and what she is cleaned for glean from her high performing clients. Before we've been the begin the conversation. Let's let's talk just a bit about deny ever so highlighting Dina crowder is known as the most innovative strategist and consultant for creators and leaders clients include Grammy and Emmy Award winners. Cnn heroes founders riders performers educators and upstarts from the industry and her latest achievement. Dna had the honour of participating as a speaker on the subject of the power of you. Now I wonder how many are feeling that power of you and the Corentin Today. Some thriving while others are struggling deeply. And that's what I plan to talk about so Paul. Why don't we Get Get Dean on the line and proceed with this rather extemporaneous Chad. Hello crowder Charlie Hedges Charlie hedges. How are you I'm fabulous? How are You Charlie? I am good. I know you just came from a conference. Are You Are you mentally. Are you mentally exhausted? Are you okay? Now I'm feeling fabulous because one of the things that we discussed in the conference was beginner's mind striving always to have An openness and a freshness of mind when you're approaching whatever your next thing is so I've come out of the conference with great feeling of space up list. That's interesting I'm studying now I I. I've mentioned several times over the air that you know what I'm studying mysticism and contemporary and contemporary of prayer and that is beginner's mind and in meditation is very important that that once we seem to know things we lose the brilliance of the beginner's mind and the curiosity and the inside and we begin to think we now too much and actually becomes a disservice to ourselves so that you know I was thinking. Do you realize that we have not held an in depth conversation just you and I talking since two thousand nineteen no. I didn't know that it is true. We've texted every now and then and kind of touch base and I attended one of your brilliant seminars but you and I was with He. You know a couple dozen other people and you and I didn't have a chance to to chat. And so I I certainly miss you in. You're brilliant insights. Thank you Charlie. Well it's been an unusual start to be here so you have a good excuse. Yeah it really has been an unusual start so you know where I wanNA start in these. I'm doing this. You're you're my my my fourth episode episode of what I'm calling the conversation in quarantine that has it's a bit extemporaneous and embiid planned. But it's not like my other series Other podcasts where this is. They've always been conversational. But this is more conversational than ever. And so what I'M GONNA do is. Let's begin with the Mundane Dina and and tell me. What some lifelike in the crowder household these days of quarantine you know. I'm guessing that you have continued to find a way to stay very busy. Charlie how did you know I get your facebook post? Yes it it has. It's been fascinating because it seems to be that with the world going to hell in a handbasket due to the virus that it is activating people on ener level. In this time of crisis people are remembering their spirit They're wanting to connect to something deeper. They're feeling unmarred confused. They're realizing that. The normal everyday habitual ways that they have either sought comfort or sought answers. They're either not. They're not working. They're saying wait a minute. Maybe I need to try different methods. Maybe I need to Go on the inside and figure things out straightened. Some things out. Get in alignment. Because where I have been I can't go back to and I'm not quite sure I don't. I don't have the right tools. I don't have the right clarity to get to where I'm going. I really want to get to that. I'm going to get to that just a little bit but I truly want to get to that. And you seem to be a focal point for all of those discussions because as an executive coach and a friend and a leader of people that write that really falls right into your bailiwick of those kinds of questions. Those the the issues that you seem to focus so much on well you know. There's the real essence. I believe of this corona virus for not just the people that I know but in general everywhere is a crisis of meeting a crisis of purpose. That is what is bubbling up From within people and And that is where I stand and serve right so so. This is new to me because I I live in a world of meaning and purpose of always as you know. I'm I'm contemplating net on on a daily basis. What do you think is driving people to go to meaning and purpose are they reevaluating their lives and what they're done and seen and what they've done and seeing that maybe this is not contributing to a legacy or a passion fulfillment or something that I am. If I can use the word called to do that I am. I am I more in pursuit of money or fame or acceptance and not in a pursuit of those things that are driving me deeply at my corn. And I've yet to access those do you think. Do you think it has something to do with that? I think it has everything to do with that. People are cannot be satisfied by the same things on the surface. And that is not to cast aspersions on and You know just started our comforts or preferences or even keep the roles right but whatever our routine The business the habits the reaching the striving whatever has been usual and normal that we have referenced and relied upon. That's that's been upturned that's been shaken up and so with all this shaking going on people are wondering well wait a minute. This whole deck is being reshuffled all over the globe. What what does that mean for me now. Because am I leaving a legacy which you asked what have I done with my life? What am I going to do with my life? Am I going to do something am I here for a purpose and really if these systems or these routines that I was putting all of my faith energy investment in are not giving me the return I expected for example all of the ten million people who lost their job in March alone and don't know how they're going to put food on the table or keep a roof over their head for those and many many more who are losing their jobs in the month of April or who are being impacted but maybe not so drastically but they're being impacted in other ways? They're asking all of those questions and they're asking them with urgency. They're asking them with a passion. They're saying wait a minute. Maybe I've been had fallen Eric and dream. Yes what is the American dream? I thought it was this one thing. But maybe it's not that maybe it's time for me to re imagine what the American dream is. That's what we are seeing. We're seeing it on an individual level and we're seeing it on a collective level. I really liked that verb. Reimagined I I. I think it is time for reimagining now. You know what I'm curious. Is You you primarily deal with High functioning or high level individuals. They are they they. They seem to have a handle on all this and yet. Now you're saying that the people that have achieved success in the eyes of society are not feeling themselves quite so successful as and as as perhaps an artist may be because an artist is is is energized by inner passions in inner desires that are more or less indefinable yet must come out and B. M. B. demonstrated in some sort of tangible manner. These other ones. You know the other situation. Are you know it's audience? Response Likes Comments You know all the all the sort of crazy data confirming situations out there Charlie. I think from the high functioning people to people who You know high functioning aid type people the two people who would consider themselves having a you know just much more quote unquote regular life. I really see that shaken up. All classes all types Artists Executives Civil Service workers as well as people who are retired and are sitting on a very healthy and robust savings because no matter how much money you have the world that you knew is changing drastically and may not go back to the way it was and this is very destabilizing whether you have a little or a lot if you have a less you have less leverage or Let's say No savings and maybe you got for literally laid off. It's more dire and you know suffering you're going to really Perhaps suffer with your family in the near future. But I haven't met anybody who isn't in some way impacted and really feeling the this in in deep ways. Well you you've met one. She was like I repeated this on a podcast probably every week. It was like somebody somebody came out with the Kovic. Stipulations of social distancing. Stay at home and stay away from people and as the Inter Verde say. I've been planning for this day my entire life. Yeah well you get to go into the Interior Castle of your soul do I do? And that's that's a great way to put it And maybe you know. Maybe you're impact is also as present. It's just doesn't look like other peoples because the call for everyone is an interior quest But for those who have have not developed a relationship with going in in the in the same way that you have and really enjoying it and appreciating it. Then you know they're they're having maybe amazing more overt challenges and having more emotional reaction but O Our our globe is being asked to go on in interior Let's even call it a hero's journey to re imagine who we are how we're being called to stand and serve to standard serve and also in line in light of tragedy and consequences and you know because the hero's journey is not is not the prettiest thing inside There are there are a great difficulty. Said that occur within the hero's journey that makes the hero the hero and and we are certainly encountering those today. Now you know what I'm curious about. I'm thinking of your style and and and I only have our your and my personal relationship in your coaching style. And then on two occasions I've seen you work with a smaller group of of fifteen to thirty people or so and see the impact you have on them and I don't see those people a lot of a lot of those people facing these issues to or they. You're more more sort of sort of satisfied. People with who they are inside and when you're safe facing the issues retirement issues of purpose shoes a purpose issues of cove in nineteen issues of of wondering. Am I going to make it or not? They they seem they seem to two so absorb your teachings that last teaching you did on magic. Storytelling was indeed magic. Can and you ask a couple of questions that were so profound and it got us deep into. What's what's going on in our lives to do you find that that a good percentage of your clients are really going through this or assist other people that you mentioned our clientele as well I would say that the people that I work with. Who are my clients are being impacted because they are doing what you're doing. Maybe not the same way. But they are going into the Interior as they say in the Alchemist journey visit the Interior. And there you will find the hidden stone which is known as the philosopher's stone of the sorcerer's stone. So they're familiar as you said Charlie. They're familiar with the teachings they know. Oh this is about me. Connecting deeper and I'm already on my Under divine direction. I'm already on a path of divine connection and so I'm just here to Make sure I use the opportunity of Cova to refine my divine assignment. That's where they are so they're impacted but are they freaking out. Are they Like oh we're not gonNA make it. No because they had a lot of inner conditioning. They are in a place of trust. And in fact Charlie. Let me just tell you? I'm getting messages in texts. Compliant saying Dina. I got offered a job. The I got offered a promotion. Dina got off to raise. Who in the world is hiring? This time they're stunned So that is the General Energy That people that you know I work one on one with our. We're very blessed. We're doing well. We are prepared. I think you said I'd be. I'm ready for this or I've been waiting for this moment. They feel overhaul they feel really incredibly prepared to be able to be in this moment. Stand and serve other people keep themselves together and simply use this as an opportunity to refine the purpose. They're already living. Do you think you know I had a question for you personally in so let me ask you personally. And then we'll go onto your clients. I wanted earlier on I wanted to get into. What is your day look like but I think I will eliminate that but tell me. Do you have time during your day in your business because you have so. Many clients is so dependent upon you. Do you have time to your during your your day to to have respite and reflection on yourself absolutely. It's a must. It is an absolute non-negotiable So one of the things that has changed for me during this quarantine is that I am making certain to have even more space and time for reflection Every morning there's a non-negotiable so this this is my daily schedule Every morning there's a non-negotiable meditation and offering in prayer. And then I get in alignment with my mission or theme for the day. It's a single word usually And I think that as okay if I can remember to stay in alignment with this mission then. I will have successful and victorious day and now in addition to that I always have that and I always have an evening reflection meditation but I'm adding in some time in the middle of the day at some other point to do more And so yeah. It's it's it's important when when things are are so chaotic when people are overall then the collective consciousness in so much dense fear and anxiety That's not a judgement or dispersion. We understand why they are but when that is the case. It is even more important for me to make sure that I replenish. I nourish that. I'm doing what I need to do to stake clear. Yeah that makes sense. I was reading this morning in my in. My you know I part of my process is reading. Spiritual insights is reading. Thomas Merchan- this morning and he was talking about that the monk's life the life of solitude and this is really and he said not everybody is called the solitude in the people that are called the solitude really don't have the gifts to live in community that he said Let me find this thing. I'm looking for really quickly and that it goes suggests calling I'm finding and I'm finding it That we that they have they have all. I have to just electoral remember it because I can't I go here. It is it is for that for their solitude and in the monastery and and these are in monasteries of solitude where they really don't talk their silence and solitude he said we have the morning we pray and work in the morning we labor and rest in the afternoon and then we sit again admitted meditation in the evening and and I thought you know that doesn't sound too bad. I I think there's a part of me if I wasn't if I didn't have a child in a wife I could've been I could've been Monastic Yeah But there's something now now when you do when you do your work. Let's hope people with his work. Because I think this is important work you know. There's there's sort of respite and reflective time. Is that a longtime. Is that a ten minute process for us in an hour process. What does that look like? Talion? Charlie years ago when I met the person who was to teach me meditation and teach me how to teach meditation. His name was Bishop John. Draze he said Dino now you need an hour a day as a baseline. But I'm not going to tell you that because you won't do it so let's say forget about the hour for now and start with fifteen minutes. I always thought that was incredible. Because of course he was right. Um You know with our modern kind of rate at which we live that our who has an hour? Oh my God so fifteen minutes and once I had gotten that down then it kept growing and growing and I would say now There are many days where all told between the morning afternoon and the evening. I'm doing two or three hours. That is not doable or necessary for the ninety. Nine percent of people That they don't need that much. They're not doing the kind of job. I'm doing that relies so much on inter Site but yeah every day. If people who don't have a practice yet would institute Same thing the the good bishop said but fifteen minutes in the morning and fifteen minutes at night of A gratitude or reflection practice meditation or prayer. Something that works to uplift you and your soul and to get you out of the lamentation. And the fear. I mean especially at this time. We know all of the research from the scientific the medical of the nurse the neuro biological communities. Tell us that when we spend time lamenting win we spend time just locked in anxiety and fear that we weaken everything. We weaken are absolutely first and foremost and right now with what we're dealing with with the virus. That's the last thing that we want to do. Yeah I I'm fortunately though I I I I Spend the majority of my time in the mornings although I read in the evenings but I'd because of my job situation which is non-existent. I'm able to spend sixty to one hundred twenty minutes in the morning. And and it's in meditation and I always have you know what I think helps. People is some sort of meditative reading and it doesn't have to be in the mystics and all eighty. I've I've Read Ryan Holiday. Stillness is the key. And that's a that's sort of how to ish kind of book. But it was really. It was really inspirational. And I didn't try to read the whole Book Journal on it. I would read a paragraph of the chapter a little bit and then I would journal on that but I'll tell you what has really been profound for me is journaling and I wrote. I wrote a post this week. That could William Makepeace Thackeray. Who is the author of Vanity Fair born in eighteen eleven Diana eighteen sixty three? And the I mean I've always loved that book and the first line there is never been a trouble done in the world but a woman has been at the bottom of it is is that is that that one or is that Barry Lyndon it's one of his books I don't know but this is yes. It's called it's really. It's really profound quote in and he speaks immaculate mask on. You know we don't have. We don't have Inclusive language in one hundred years now drew fifty years ago and he writes there are a thousand thoughts line with a man would line within a man that he does not know till he takes up a pin to right and there is something about journaling that. I encourage people. Even if you don't know what you're going to write in journal and just start and before you know it's something important is going to come out in that journal. Yeah well you're you're pointing to to something so essential when we talk about re imagining Journaling allows you to connect with some voices that you maybe don't usually listen to some flavors of feeling and thought that you are not always in touch with So at a time like this when there is as we said a reshuffling of the deck any of these practices and especially Some kind of connected writing is is priceless. You know. I don't know if you saw this film. It was done some years ago. It was called contagion and it has just watch like last week and I thought Oh my goodness this is. This is this is prophetic. Yeah well he did a lot of research for that film. I mean a lot of Very very precise research and He was interviewed recently since code and he said something. His name is Scott Berns. He said something fabulous he said right now. This meaning this. The entire quarantine situation is an opportunity for our country as divided as we are to find a common cause and this goes back to purpose. What we're talking about. And then he went on to paraphrase a friend of his Gentleman named Dr Larry. Brilliant EPA Debbie epidemiologist and he and apparently that guy has said that love is a big part of survival in these situations. The questions do you love someone enough to take care of yourself and respect vulnerability the basic compassion for people less fortunate than you. There is an innocent fortunate. What's very frustrating to me. Especially as in. We're going to go on break and just one second. What's frustrating for me is the protests that are now coming up is just an even though the you know the press likes to make them Mike. Their major protests there was one that had two thousand people most of them have less than fifty people in the protests. So it's not it's not giant protests but it's the rise of divisive ISM and and and it's very disheartening for me at a time when we need cohesion and working together as one nation and working together in belief. That's difficult and rarely. Do I speak about our leadership but you know I don. I don't think we have the kind of leadership that that in engenders cohesion. We have one that that engenders divisiveness and and that's a very sad thing you know. Now look what I WANNA do. Is I want to talk after the break. There's something we skip that I had. Well you don't know we skipped but it it skipped. I know you're reading my notes but you used the term that I am. That is a destiny. Pathway the notion of destiny pathway. And you've been speaking on it. But I'd like to elaborate on that and and go to another very important quoted. You have but before we do that. Let's take a quick break and then we'll come back. Okay Dina all right. Hi this is Charlie hedges. And you're listening to the next Chapter Charlie and my special guest. Dina crowder my my personal coach with whom I have not spoken since two thousand nineteen and we are catching up and we were talking about what. I'm what I'm sort of simply titling. Survive or thrive in an in a quarantine situation and Dina's talked about people having an opportunity to reflect whether they like it or not to reflect on the values of their life are they are they accomplish. Are we accomplishing what we want to accomplish in life? Are we millet merrily in In pursuit of the American dream which is money houses cars. And all that SORTA thing and and prestige rather than divine mystery and who. We are inside now in light of that new ED in a text or facebook post. I can't remember but you mentioned the notion of a destiny pathway. I think I think that kind of sums up what you're talking about DNA that it's a destiny pathway. I do when when the a lot of the illusions of Significance or the things that have kept US busy and engaged. Fall away and we are totally uncertain. Which is what's happening now it's It's a moment of crisis but it's also a moment of opportunity and things are wide open. So what is occurring is? There's a there's a chance for us at a deeper level than we usually operate and that means we usually are operating from our personality. That's very habituated to functioning in whatever society? We're in well. All those bets are off. There's an opportunity for us to go into the Interior Castle of our soul of deeper self. This is not a religious conversation by the way it's the part it's where the quarter Mother Teresa Saint Theresa that Eli Yeah. The Interior Castle is Saint Theresa that is her word. That's absolutely right but it's not a religious thing to go. There is no where the deepest part of you connect with the deepest part of life. Is that essential part of you and right now that is really available and not only available but we as individuals and as a collective we are craving connection with it so that we can really feel. Oh my goodness this is where I am meant to stand and this is how I am meant to serve. So there's even things that people who may not be yet ready for a full-on Kerley hedges style reflection and meditation practice They can get started with having their own purpose party. Virtually during this time. Describe that Well you know some years ago when I was going through a life transition and I was asking some of these same questions. Okay I want to get in design connection so I can update my direction and also upgrade with My divine assignment. I started gathering clues and so this fact finding mission by the way closer everywhere. All over the place we're drowning excludes we just don't post assess them and so simple way to do it and this is what I did is. I went around and asked a dozen people who I respected in terms of their opinion. What am I best? Death great what a what a great and also very vulnerable thing to do. Because you fear the answer. Can I call you back? Oh thanks for Yes I did. I said You know what I'm I'm on this destiny purpose mission this quest here what am I best And the I was instructing them to be very succinct. They couldn't get verbose and flowery just really barebones. Give me a couple of sentences Well one one person said you are best at breaking down complex concept's and communicating them to anyone using any language they understand. Somebody else said your best at seeing the unseen Somebody else said your best at Helping people transform what they don't know is blocking them. So after you do a few of these Where every have everybody's giving you about a paragraph will then you have theme you have these threads that are running through each of the contributions that you've been given and what people could do is once? They've asked this purpose question and gotten their clues together now on the Internet. Everyone's having virtual parties. So Hey have a purpose party where you have a number of people and you each share the clues that you've gotten and then Have a have a discussion where you can receive further insight and but there is one rule. I suggest that the purpose party. And it's that if somebody begins to qualify in self deprecate and say oh well you know mine orders. Good is yours and I don't really know and all of that. They you know they to do something. They have to clean the dishes. Or put a quarter in the kitty something because it's really important to simply notice how we may Debit Our our own value And this is. This is a perfect time for use of being vulnerable. And that's true it is it is vulnerable but it's really simply being open to receive and if you can receive that in a context where you know you matter because everyone matters and your valuable because everyone's valuable and everybody's here with A special gift That they have to give. This can really go a long way to helping you get online and take the first step because the path is cleared those things that were taking up our time and that maybe we were all hung up on before. They're they're not. They're not here right now. Those allusions have dissolved. We have an open pathway to do this kind of work that is so great and you mentioned and you mentioned house cleaning and doing the dishes do you know. Do you know one of the things for what I am most appreciated in family gatherings that are my family. My you so- my son's family US and my daughter in law's family and you know what is one of the things that is most appreciated by me is that I do dishes all day long? I don't wait until we have a whole stack of dishes. Yeah you know I am. I am a cleaner as cooker and so I do a little bit of cooking but I'm doing dishes and that is so appreciated by the family because by the time we dinner. We don't have this. You know horrible looking kitchen that is just just you know terror to look at. We just have our dishes that we ate we ate food on all Oliver Cooking. Utensils are cleaned. And and I know that is something that is appreciated by people in our little community and is something as simple as doing dishes. There's there's an essential of quality in their Charlie Up about not letting things get out of hand and pile up about handling things as they come up that may perhaps be part of your Philosophy and formula for success. Not just for yourself but you know in general is hey. Don't don't wait until the you was it. King Midas didn't clean is the stables for fifty years. I think that's who it was and mythology. It's like wait a minute. Wait till it's fifty years down the line and at the it's it's we're drowning in you know what a L- let's let's keep this moving as we go but it's also a power principal In the way that I teach power one of the principles that you and I have learned together Then you've learned is power is intimate. It circulates and we're not talking about for your listeners. We're not talking about distorted power and domination and that forced. We're we're talking over exactly power Power TO IN WITH NOT OVER. And in that scenario the power is intimate and power circulates. So you're keeping the energy circulating By going ahead and cleaning up and doing the dishes it's super valuable. So did I get an A? On my assignment. Then do you get. I mean five stars after this stars questions for you before we close and I have. I have a question that I wanted to ask. I wanted to call in and ask Richard Roar. And he's the author that so popular nowadays you know he would know a new one thousand nine hundred and two thousand seventeen and today. He's got millions of followers on his podcast and his blogs and his daily devotional and and as I'm studying mysticism prayer through them. Love is such a key a key word and you mentioned love as one of the qualities that are are important in this self-discovery who we are what's important to us our passions deanamh. I'm going to ask you an impossible question. I am vexed. I am vexed by the concept of love and especially the love of God and quite honestly. I don't know what the hell it is. I mean believe me and I. This is not coming. This is coming months and years of study and I just I feel like I don't know what that means that the word has such a vast field of meaning. I don't know how to apply it to whatever situation. I'm I'm thinking of a reading of. How would you respond to that? I understand why you think it's impossible question but I'm not sure that it is as impossible as You might be thinking because well the impossible part would be giving a single definition. That would work for everyone that I don't. I'm not so sure about because as we just said powers intimate will God your relationship with and the higher power. You were By whatever name you call it ministry. Yeah yeah the the universe God the Holy Spirit Goddess. I mean everybody's got a different name and in different languages there's Different ways of calling on God. So once we realized that it's extremely personal In even in the Christian faith you're called upon to have a very personal relationship with the divine a personal relationship if it's a Christian with Jesus that's said again and again So then I would say that what love becomes in terms of God's love is has to do with in individual person's individual and very unique relationship with With the divine in their life how they communicate how they feel loved. So for you Charlie. If you're pursuing this question there are probably some very specific moments where you really felt connected and loved by how you view. God and that's the nature and quality Of God's love as it shows up for you and it may show up for somebody else. A little different. Well this is a this is a long conversation which I really knew. I shouldn't have gotten into because for me it. It is unfortunately it's very cognitive and it's not spiritual or a motive and so I- cognitively can can comprehend this notion but to have this feeling of presence is is very difficult but I think that's what God is taking me through. Yeah I hear that I hear that and I I certainly know that he will Asked after he will go on a journey with this and then you will come back around full circle any will recognize Moments you know like some of the moments where I have been most in awe and most stunned Have I mean they? They've occurred in places of traditional worship as well have occurred in such radically different Moments like with a gentleman George who was homeless who lived two blocks away from me for some time and I mean I had an unbelievable experience of what people would call You Know God and Divine Grace in speaking to to this to this person again and again during this time then that he was homeless in my neighborhood. So that's one of the ways that You Know God shows up for me and show up as love for me. It's like Thomas Merton says and and the contently say it's a matter it's a matter of staying away to matters staying away campaign attention because it's happening and yet it could just slip right by me and I don't even see it now. I I have another ten minute question that you've got two minutes to answer all right. Get there I just got a smile from my producer and so so I want to. I want to quote you one last time and this is something you wrote in a text to me okay. It's admitted longer quote but I'll read it slowly enough aside from the very real scary and harsh economics there. Is this thing happening around the EGO meeting? Feel busy people want to get back to normal? Not only because they want to make money which is necessary but also because of the real terror is stillness and that terror is about feeling threatened. It's uncomfortable and the Eagle in the EGO wants the potential introspection to end now in other words. The EGO doesn't want to think about it. The Ego just wants you to do does not want you to reflect and and does not want you to to go beyond the ego into the unconscious and where the the divine mystery truly dwells. What what do you have to say about that? Well the EGO is not this Repository of bad people in have a an assumption. When you say ego that you're talking about an arrogant person. I so agree with you right and we're not talking about Person that's puffed up and arrogant and full of himself. We're not so we. We have a lot of examples of that. But that's not what we're talking about. We're speaking about simply the personality. The the you that has an identity and it goes out and functions in the world and the way that it's structured. It's a mess. It's a necessary element in human life and the way that it's structured. It is a structured to protect us to keep us safe and to keep us from going into unknown terrain. And guess where your purposes? It's across the bridge that says unknown terrain. Here guess where that feeling of the presence which you just ask about of love higher love. Where's that well same sign unknown terrain here And the human personality EGO says We don't WANNA go there. So let's bring it into the time of the corona virus your quarantine. You're at home. You can't do the business. You can't do the doing that. You are used to and the human personalities slash the EGO. We're talking the psychological terminology of Ego. Where does it exist? And where does it have power? It has existence and power in time in business and activity when we step beyond that pattern and we allow ourselves. Stillness we allow ourselves to receive like even in the exercise of. What am I best at? You said Gosh that's vulnerable. We allow ourselves that moment of space to receive to reflect the right to pray. Guess what the the personalities still there. But it's in the back seat now. It's not in control. It doesn't know exactly where the destination is. And if we don't have An awareness around this or some kind of practice around being able to place the personality in the back seat for these. Mvp very important endeavors. Then there's a sheer terror that exists and I think that's what you're describing boy that is brilliantly stated it's It's right in line with Richards. Book Richard Roth Book Folly Noteworthy Talks About First and second half of life. And then how you you deal with the ego and his as much as I think. I'm in second half of life I am not. As ego-driven are eagle manipulated not driven but eagle manipulated as I once was yet nevertheless nevertheless it pops up. Its ugly head all the time. It's not like it's ever dismissed. Could ever goes away and I must be conscious of it and dependent on another another resource and and you you name it so well. Dina crowder it is you know. I really I I now. I'm reminded why I have you as a personal coach you are. You are freaking. Brilliant really and you articulate very deep thoughts. You know you're right that you can take very deep thoughts and articulate them in ways that are comprehensible to the average guy like me. I'm so grateful for you. I'd I'd I can't tell you how much I'm grateful for you. Charlie. You are a blessing and I Unbelievably Lucky To have you in my life and and thank you for having me on your show again. It's always fun. Thank you so much for coming on the show and and do you. Is there a special way? You want people to get a hold of you. Well they if they would like to reach out They can go to. Dina crowder DOT COM. That's enough and You know shoot me a message and you know also some free tools and resources that they can get if they go to the website they can see my my headaches talk which is perfect for now being in how to be in power because the power is you at any time even now and also The empower guy. There's various things so they you know I'm welcome them to check out the free resources That are I would too because you have You have some surprise. You take us down a road. I know I just experienced one of your one of your your your seminars lard. Seminars you take us down a road where I think you know where you're going where we're going. And then all of a sudden you throw a shocker question at me that just goes deep and just said holy cow awarded that come from and it was just brilliant so so. I encourage people to get a hold of you and Dina crowded dot com. Check out your website. Check out your free resources and I also want to thank our listeners. Tuning into the next chapter with Charlie be sure to check us out at our website. The next chapter dot life until next. This is Charlie hedges signing off by for now listen to another example of next Chapter Charlotte right here in Orange County's only community radio station. Talk Radio Dot net.

Charlie hedges Dina crowder EGO Interior Castle facebook California Cnn Emmy Award Paul Chad Caitlin Dome Dean William Makepeace Thackeray Ryan Holiday consultant US executive Inter Verde Eric
#131 Terry Hershey: This Is the Life

OC Talk Radio

1:01:57 hr | 2 years ago

#131 Terry Hershey: This Is the Life

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APR while supplies last Welcome everybody's time once again for the next chapter and with Charlie hedges as he explores turning the page on his life and yours. Hey Charlie Hey Paul aw good to be here with you at talk radio and guess what man. What is it our good friend Terry? Hershey has just released East a new book. Titled this is the life. I received a copy just a couple of days ago so I've only read through whatever I've read parts and of most of it and it really is good and I. I think the subtitle explains as much about the content and and got me into it and the full title reads. This is the life. Mindfulness finding grace and the power of the present moment. That's a good job I I know much has been written on mindfulness and living in the present but Terry indeed does offer a fresh perspective on this subject for me. It's not so much in. His book is not so much a how to book as it is Y to book. Would you agree with that Terry. Yeah that's actually. Yeah Yeah. I don't agree with that good and I found the book. Most refreshing read attempting to restores from our frenetic eh hectic and chaotic daily lives. It is filled with stories anecdotes references to masters especially in the spiritual world or in the spiritual arena Carina And spiritual. I'm not talking about religion. I'm talking about other worldliness personally. I'm attracted much by by the notion of finding grace and the power of the present moment but Most of US reside in cities and suburbs. That are inundated with the driving. Need to accomplish to add value to be forward thinking and then unfortunately our children are being raised to follow the same lifestyle. But I'm I think I'm already giving away too much of our content whether discussion here so for the few listeners. There's that are not familiar with Terry Hershey. He is the most popular public speaker. In fact I personally consider Terry to be one of the most enjoyable and impactful public speakers. I've ever heard. He is obviously an author of quite a few books and a landscape architect and probably most importantly for especially for the sake of our conversation today. Terriers Avid. Gardener is putting it lightly as a two who Acre Garden in which he cares for diligently with great crease and great devotion so Hirsch Congratulations Ashley. Sins on the new book. It was such a pleasurable read. Yes like birth and the child but And the thing about a book. Is You birth and chocolate. You don't really care whether it grows up thrills I know you know I. I haven't published that many in the way you do but when you get that book in the mail there is the really something special to that. Isn't there yeah. It's pretty awesome. Yeah it's a great yeah. They did a great job with the title Allah title. I I had given them but they they. They did a great job. They took them from sex quote Yeah my son I was GONNA call the book dancing with manatees. Yeah that sell like hell I mean that would just ah for Title I tell you what though here because managing some would come through a thing. What the hell the manatee a manatees? A marge. Like a Aurora's in the water But that was like a stingray. No manatee is those massive wonderful gentle creatures. Here's Oh yeah manatees are there. They're very very very famous down in several places in in in in Florida and it's anyway manatees. I was could because when I was a young. How my favorite book was Zen and the art of motorcycle may right so and I thought and one of the reasons eh picked it up was because the title the title is. I have no idea what this book is about. That's what I loved about. The title in so dancy manatees was like my zen and the motorcycle maintenance. Yeah but I see I thought that was dancing with stingrays and so shows shows my intelligence. Besides you know I'm curious man Apart from your love of writing what would you motivation to write this particular book. Actually where the episode of dancing with the manatees which was a thing that western Western Florida in the Gulf of Mexico had this episode which is a surreal real serendipitous. Kind of thing where you have. This encounter this managing and You you get touch with the giddiness and and It's always been a part of my my message my mantra which is you know I call it. I didn't make this off. It was made up in the thirteenth century by a priest but the sacraments of the present moment in other words. You take this moment and you invested lasted you honor it Invest it with With gratitude and presence and I always that's always been sort of my mantra that I preached preached But this dancy manatee things. I practiced it because there was no forethought to it and then I had to unpack and I wrote and And the publisher had asked me to write a book. Is everybody writing and I said this is it and I said well we want to do it. So and that was when it was titled. Dancing with manatees. Yeah see they knew it. Amenity was right right. They said what they had a meeting at me with all the the people and they said we we. We love the tile dance who manages but there are people out there who think man cheeser stingrays and so we so we can't in good conscience use that title. I like this is the life Actually I a they were. It was brilliant. I love the subtype. Subtitle is tremendous. It's about mindfulness. It's about finding grace it's about. It's about the the present moment now. We're GONNA talk about those three things today. It's your show man. I'm in the present moments of but it's your show. You're in the present moment so I had to bring you into my moment about. Yeah yeah well. I'll tell you the challenge with this book and is that you have taken head on an opposite an opposite view of the ultimate goal of the American dream which is to accomplish things accent to collect stuff and accomplishment and collection of stuff is pounded into us from childhood. And unfortunately today hey it seems to be magnitudes. More invasive to children than it was when we were young young decades ago. What do you think about that Well I hardly grew tell you the story but and the and the second thing that bombards us is the reality that I know you were saying in cities they're more Were tempted by that but because we have The cell phone and other technology we are distracted from the president will matter where we are Dr and the way you have to present yourself on social media is something quote other than who you really are kind of because you have to sort of put on on hairs speak and Anyway but your question is about the court American dream so I wanna read this to you because I was just writing this down friend just told me this and this is going to be my blog next week gray for this. Yeah she said I wish I had read your Sabbath moment before my meeting. Now my friend Brenda's as a hospice chaplain in other words. She's a chaplain that works with people who died. She's brilliant. She's been doing it for years. She said I was I just with my hospice supervisor and her question to me was what are your long term goals. She said I wanted to laugh out loud. Because this woman was obviously reading from a chart that had to do with employees goals and objectives to your point right right. What was what fits under this? This is my friend. Saint my friend says instead. I'm thinking I'm eighty years old. I've just come through. Who Cancer Chemo radiation? OR I. I'd like to live just another year in my new house with my new garden. That my friend help me design. I would like to live just this year with grace and gratitude. That's what she's thinking. Why does it take what? Why do we have to get old old to understand that? Well that's what that's what I love about this. And then she says this all right. Here's the deal. I don't have any long term goals. I I'm going to be a hospital. Chaplain Hospice Jeff. Because I love the work. I'm doing when I stopped loving it. Then I'll quit. That's my answer to your question. That's great does and that is that is I think I think we all all you know I mean I'm experiencing I'm taking over sort of a culprit corporate culture endeavor here and in the company that I'm working with and and I want people to. I want them to have fun at work. I want them to enjoy the the whole idea of coming to work every day rather than this dreadful you're GonNa get I'm GonNa get yelled at I'm going to get pounded on. I you know I have to accomplish accomplish your diet I have to you know how am I adding value. You know the great new term. So here's the thing that was one of the what what's the book about and I would say really. The book is a paradigm shift because if we live by this title of this book then we are going to measure things differently. We're gonNA measure things like success differently. We're going to measure things like failure and and then we're GONNA ask different questions in other words we're gonNA engage differ like the woman did the Jacqueline that shit the question she wanted to ask you. Tell me what you love about your work. You're welcome Jackie. That's fine. Have your checklist. The tell me what you love about by your because I want to create an environment where that's what's happening. In other words it changes the paradigm and therefore changes the question. We measure things things very differently now and as a result for the company. That is IM- business not to not necessarily to be the the happiness factor in people's allies but to produce product actually produce better products and better income with happy employees. One hundred percent one hundred percent. Yeah yeah they're they're they're in other words I want. I want that. I want that kind of person I want the person that I that that that I'm engaged. Engaged with at any endeavor to be to to to live from the philosophy dishes the light. 'cause they're going to bring their best self to the day at the moment but you know when you're you're you're right when you spoke of this as a paradigm shift because we were talking a major paradigm. I am shift. There's nothing tot two children to even begin to think. That was a matter of fact in somewhere I read you. You wrote you wrote. I think it was in this book in and and we've spoken before about the teacher asking the children. What are the seven wonders of the world? Why don't you tell that story first graders seven wonders of the world and the you know there are giving it a shot pyramids and Niagara Falls and the teachers cheerleading on. Those are pretty good answers actually and then one little girl says nothing because somebody says nothing and the teacher says Emily. Emily says well. I don't think I understand the question and the teacher says why I was just because I don't have any of the right answers and the teachers run to reach read. What you've got healthy? So there's the Fed. I might have any of the right. It s yeah so the little girl stands up and says the seven wonders of the world to see and to hear the taste and to touch. And Oh my goodness how does how does the first grade I think of that. I mean I just I. I'll tell you what that's the thing. Though is that that the kids are born with that and we leaned out of them we we raise them with the other paradigm she must have been raised with the right paradigm to because she would've lost asked by six years old. If she was not parented by people who valued such thing. Yeah I think yes she would have lost by Sixers Orange Orange County but up here. It's it's not so you're eight or nine. But yeah gets weaned out absolutely it. It really does. It doesn't take long before you're asking. Where are you going to? What are you going to be in your grow up? Oh Yeah I. We were both asked that. When what are you gonNa go in and and we're going to go to school et Cetera? Well not not only. Where are you going to school? But here in Orange County there there are children. There are parents that are taking children that are screening that are screening preschool and kindergartners. For how can they better get them re prepared for war an Ivy League college at a preschool and kindergarten. Are you ruining. We're just totally screwing up. These kids lives. So what's interesting is is. The is the permission for example if you engage a young person. Somebody's fourteen fifteen sixteen seventeen and it's interesting paradigm shift is the kind of questions we talk about. The way we talk about their life is still in front of them as opposed to. What did you see her taste touch or smell today? That gave you pleasure. It gave you joy in other words was what made you smile. Big What made you what made your heart clad in other words. What what what all of the things that put you in the present moment with afraid to ask those questions I mean? I learned that very young with my sons that we come home from school. I'd say what you. What did you do at school? See there it is gathered as apparent. Why the Jewish? I you know what what the kids are GonNa give nothing or I don't now I mean that's quick. It's a quick conversation so very early. I'd ask that goes those. What did you see her tastes such? Nothing's questions Oh did you. Oh Good Lord. He'd gone for he'd go on for a long time about any of those things do you do. You remember I'm of of course you remember our dear friend the Presbyterian Pastor Been Patterson and his questioning to marry his question every time you encountered him for the first time when you go into his office recall that no question was how is it with your soul. Oh yeah right exactly I just. I've always thought that was fabulous question. How has it with your soul? How's it with your inner life what what's going on? What are you seeing? What are you doing with your inner life? Rather than how you doing good to see you you know. He just jumped right into the middle of the mess. We're also there's a there's a A culture with Shamans and the diagnosis questions. They have if someone is experiencing A. You're not sure what it is. But they're down there emotionally down They're under a way of some kind at my hat. Physical manifestations and you know their first four diagnosis questions are are you ready. When did you you quit saying? When did you quit listening to music? When did you could hear Ange? When did you quit hearing stories and when did you quit the comfort of silence silence and the answer to that is? When did I begin? Any of those. Yeah and the extraordinary irony is that but with regard to say newsy I mean there are times when we but we walked climbs when it happens to us or even when the Times silencer stories as happened to us we walk right by it. Yeah and look what. Look what garrison. Keeler Gillard Geller Garrison Keeler. Where did with storytelling? He took the he. It just became a national phenomenon Because he was such a tremendous storyteller that we would stay tuned and listen to his whole silly show just so we could hear his story. Yeah Yeah and it the story because and what was interesting about the story is not necessarily the plot or where the story's going those weren't what his stories were about but since about the stories are the the very tactile or visceral kind of truth in other words specific encounters. That happens which we're all of those things put us in the present moment they do they they make us think about the present moment and they make us think about about who we are internally and in the story how does the how do the characters in the story relate to our the various characters we have in our makeup because we are all made up of several characters and how each of those released one or one or or more of our characters and that does indeed impact our lives and causes us and and not causes us but but assist us in considering corrine. What's important in life? Yeah I would agree. Yeah I just you know a way. I'm just thinking because I'm going to see it for a second second time tonight so I'll Publicly Promote Ed Norton's Newest Endeavor motherless Brooklyn is just it is exactly that it is it is genius storytelling genius storytelling and that we can relate to A person with a person with with with some disabilities he has terrell and he's OCD and he's a detective life but you can really relate with his with his problems and know what he wanted everybody everybody DC. We all have. Those kinds of problems is not just you know. They're not maybe not quite intense as his. But that was his goal tourists to relate to that I highly recommend the film. You know I'm going again tonight to see it but what am I going to continue with. Today is as I was reading through your book. I really really liked the three sections and found that they. They prompted me. The I'm going now. Read your book as a daily devotional. I'm GonNa read each chapter as a devotional and the sections I think are so pertinent and and they are exactly the questions or direction. I think something on mindfulness finding grace in the power of the present the moment I think they they sort of bolster that that concept in the sections are one first section is born to Savor ver second one is what gets in the way and it concludes with today. I choose to honor her. These are three of the most Inviting topics to me. So what do you think we attempt to devote the remaining of our conversation today focusing on these three concepts go for it okay so To begin with I so agree with your premise that we were born to save her and yet I am curious how you came up with and how you support such a counter counter cultural to American culture at least a counter cultural conclusion because it seems that Americans are not born to save her but to succeed need no not born with were taught to do that able Abram Hassles Jewish. Rabbi Taber National. Said said we we. We teach our children how to weigh and measure perhaps house we should teach them. Aw and wonder and I agree as an interesting thing you say. Let's just go very practice practical. Typical here because You know I love to Cook Right Right and there are times that you and I have been the kitchen back back in. The past renewed loved her kitchen stuff. And when you're in Bob in the kitchen everything there is about savory about yes it's about it's about taste but it's not just about food it's about just the activity of it and creating an ingredients and your hand your your hands hands are in within the present and and there's conversation so the relationship and there's all kinds of things going on it's very in the moment this whole thing thing about this by a food by a meal and don't worry you don't have to cook it and they okay. Fine do that but this endeavor so you're in the moment now what's fascinating is. Where's the temptation in our mind? Then to go instead of the all in wonder which is just dive into it is to weigh and measure in other words right now we have to evaluate it is worthy thing an unworthy thing and that's when we tr- that's trip ourselves up. It's not to say that things can't be different or get better but you can't you can't you can't move on until you loved mannlicher. That's the saver part. You know I think cooking is just rest of fine example because because there's so much of your body involved in that there's so many of your senses especially asly especially the sense of touch and smell you know you rethink taste but it's it's my favorite part of cooking was chopping. I I love I love. I love the sound of the knife on the board. I love the fragrance of whatever I'm chopping. Yeah Yeah and then in your and then you're making and then when you add spices you know I it's it's not a quarter teaspoon. It's what you've after you've done this for awhile. It's what you feel is right right and what tastes right. And what smells right about it. Yes and savory is not just the fact is happening it was very important thing here and that is that we have to give ourselves permission to Savor Yup. I'm wired to do it but I need to give myself permission. Because there's something in not not just a knee but in my culture that wants to rein that in and wants to make it a accomplishment endeavor contest contests where you're like there's not any TV shows on that the procession the point Michael With this TV shows are predicated on. It's like you have to win something rather than just save or something I mean I think I mean I do. Retreat says you know for a living or groups of people that are gone for Cup of your virtues reduced and it's fascinating that I tell them I'd say right up front when you go home. People are going to ask you to evaluate your retreat. I said just think about that for mm-hmm you're here to have time just to be grounded to be with yourself but now you have to evaluate it. That's just cuts Is Is it he. It's not just counterintuitive. It's counterproductive. Ah Yes it. It messes with everything about why you're there so immediately thinking in other words you begin to you begin to not give yourself permission to to to to put your both of your hands in the dough. Yes yes tablet. I'll tell you a cookie and that really got me that I think that's a very helpful. Do you have any other helpful activities. You know I as as I said early that that this is not a how to but a why to bu but but for example to help our listeners understand things that they can do what what else I mean for you. It's gardening. What about those of us who live on a four thousand square foot plot of land there is no no such thing as gardening That's that's Completely untrue Charles. I have driven I have. I have driven in parts of Orange County and I don't even have to go down to Laguna Arcadi part of the beach. I've Durham personally county where I see the sunrise or sunset most of the Sunset Sunrise exit. Changeover changeover come at you. and See and the sky is magnificent. Yes that is true we do have we do have thanks to our and so you the need to literally pull off the road. Freeway should be empty during that time. You should. I mean one of the things. Things is the garden that God is much bigger than much bigger than than than some place that I own where I where I growth the gardeners where we get to walk around and And where we get to savor nature difficult. Terry Yama speak for my listeners. Because I know they're thinking the same thing as difficult because we walk around tiny boxes. You know everything looks the same all the homes of the same street so the same. The trees are planted certain row. And they're all you know. According to to community the Komo the the rules of the Association and all the houses you have to be the same color. It's sort of like a ton of the same thing over and over and I find there is little to savor you. You really must make a conscious effort in places like where I live a conscious effort at finding gene external external Pieces are external parts of my life. That can savor a sunset. Yes I I can tell you. One time. My son was about five years old. I pulled the car over and Laguna Beach and took a look at that sunset and I said son look at that. Can you believe that if he's very young very young four five maybe six. I don't know and to this very day. He will tell me. Dad Look at that sunset onset but it was just one example. That was just one example. I didn't I didn't do that frequently. And I would say to the people in your neck of the reds origin. Other places like that and that's one of the reasons I don't live there anymore So so you're saying we all need to move to Vashon island. No but I'm saying I would have to be very intentional about things like that you do and That's why that's why I I am. I am in awe of Central Park. Central Park is sanity for Manhattan. Because it gives is a place where you are not sure whatever but for those who manage that. You're walking or doing whatever you're you're literally this is the life that doesn't mean that. Here's this is really important is that this is the life that grounding us that I have in my garden or in my cooking or whatever I then I that is now that is now with me so that when I walk back into parts of my life that are that are not that are a little bit more Her uneven now I have that gives me capacity okay I'm seeing. Were already moving into point number two. What gets in the way and My producer is suggesting that we take a brief break before we move on to that but Let's move on to get in the way and we'll we'll close up a bit on born to save her because I still have a question there. So hang in UH Hi there this is. Charlie has his With the next chapter with Charlie and I want to come everybody and our guest Terry Hershey and we are talking about. Terry's latest book which is titled. This is the life subtitled mindfulness nine fullness finding grace and the power of the present moment and we're in the midst of discussing three his three sections shirow the book born to Savor what gets in the way and to to day. I choose to honor these are. These are concept's APPs for for understanding this mindfulness presence and the grace and the grace race to The grace to find that The last question I have on born to save her. It's it's I I can't I can't help but think there's a somewhat of a DNA or biological goal aspect to that is is you know. Am I getting too technical or or is there some sort sort of DNA for this that you you you've thought about no no it is DNA. Tell me what you say and you know this in sports is is is in sports or when people are aw out Hiking or working at what do you say that people are. It's hot what do you tell. What do you tell? Do inside boards. What what do I tell her? Drink note drink a glass of water in other words hydrate. If you're not right traded you will break out right so because it's in in your DNA to be hydrate it's the same emotional it's in your DNA to be emotionally hydrate. I Love Ah. There are so many things that take with and when you're dehydrated what's happened. What happens is your capacity thing does diminished capacity to to react is diminished capacity functions diminished your capacity to produce is diminished? The possibility of illness is expanded. So this is about emotional or spiritual hydration we are DNA to be hydrated isn't this isn't this way of thinking this. This present moment thinking. Isn't this part of cancer. Therapy in many places and and and this is what's interesting to me because very often that's why the stuff that gets in the way our participation using the old beal paradigm of you know. What did you accomplish our temptation is? We'll just get that stuff out of the way to your take two pills and go hope however in this life paradigm instead of doing that you actually want to reinforce what the DNA so my doctor and say here you got plaque on your arteries for God's sake you're you're an old man. Take these pills and go home or he could say there's a pill but all he can say exercise sure cise sleep. Well eat well and other words hydrate. Yes and that's and that's part of living in the present saying what you're saying about cancer therapy. There's so many ways that we can do this by what they do is they reinforce our DNA her okay. All right so we've got born to save right. I think I you know I I can buy that. I can buy that. I Boy You really got me with a cooking metaphor that that that is so natural and for those people who are listening that have cooked they they certainly get that but we have have according to your section Second Section of the book. We have several obstacles to that What gets in the way is the official title of the section? But there are so many things that I see get in the way that I that I talked about earlier about living in a in a you know tiny tiny box community which were building apart by the way Terry. We're building apart my neighborhood isn't that great eight. Yeah it's all for tennis baseball basketball. There is not. There's not a tree in the neighborhood hood. Get that Dan tree out of the way. I can't park a car. Their are far has to meet certain requirements. Having nothing to do with Park. So that's my that's the park. I get to walk to now which I will. I think I will fine joy in the sense of the presence by by by. You're watching children having fun right if they are indeed allowed to do that in Little League Baseball. I'm not sure that's part of the not not then sure that's part of little league. Baseball's goal anymore. Yeah why you would. You would appreciate this obviously because you were involved in raising your son up through that Some preschool players but my theory is is that literally is not really for kids. It's for parents. It's for for angry parents. Yeah uh-huh angry. Angry angry parents that failed as a kid at sports. You give you give them a bat and a ball and they're fine. Yeah Yeah I know I've had umpires used to tell me you know if you just fired coaches and umpires and let kids go out. Divide into two teams and play other. They'd have a blast that have yeah and they make up roles and they knew five. Yeah they'd be they'd be just fine there's a quote. I wanted to use in your in your book that that that I thought has to do with this. And it's by I I don't know if I pronounced his name right. Tom Zale Brazil's us. Yeah I I don't know either but yeah okay. But he quo quoting him. He says they tell us to live one day at a time as if we had a choice of course we live one day at a time. Some of us are just the movie you know what movie the movie were. Meg Ryan is a all. I can yeah okay. So again a quote that they tell unlisted live one day at a time as if we had a choice of course we live one day at a time. Some of us are just more aware of it so hirsch why there are so many of us unaware of the wonder of present because we won Have forgotten that we have the capacity to we haven't given permission to embrace that as a value to whatever the day is and three because we haven't used is the paradigm switch question other words asking ourselves just like we always sort of ask ourselves and you know what that I just do. What just happened today or the way? We just unpack it with whoever at the end of the day paradigm helps us unpack it in different ways in other words if we have a different kind of questions about how we unpack it when we notice different things questions. Tell us what to notice. I liked that I liked that even even if it's as simple as charlie. This is Pam Talking Charlie. Grocery store pickup Blah Blah Blah Blah. Blah you get home the question can be did you pick up blah blah blah or can be. Did you see by the store that you knew. Did you see store that you thought you wanted to buy because it made. Did you remember some of the questions to ask me. You know. Yeah I guess that seems you know if I ask my wife asked me that I'm not sure how I'd respond. I would ask you were. There are several ways that I loved because once I would get to know you as a friend there are several ways I can ask you that. I will keep pushing it in terms of the fact that that there's something about the experience that puts you in the president. Yeah I need to you you know. It is very difficult you these. It is very difficult to live fully in the present when it's it's it's so filled with duties and responsibilities because all I can think about his duties and responsibilities realties when I go to trader. Joe's I don't notice anything I have my list and I'm just asking people whereas the where's this. Where's that because I can never remember and that's all I I give you see? I pushed back on that completely because when I go to trader Joe's I have the list I do but that list is only part of my experience. Not Mine Man. I'm I'm just telling you there. We're going to convert burke you we're going to convert you like when my son and I used to go shopping for his mom for Christmas and she would give us a Christmas list and we would we we would. We would do that shopping about in about two hours. We called it Mome men on a mission and mission. John was to was to buy those things. And get the hell out of those stars and then go play some baseball partly. It's fine because the go replaces baseball but if the question is how do I practice. How do I practice? This is the life. How do I give myself permission to be men on the mission where at least partway through that? I smile about something and had a joke with my son. Well that was signed. There are times when you have your Momma's that you have in all of that even in those times which have already been slated for something else objectively. That's really good observation because the men on a mission just even that in itself was fun for us and we would want we would. We would have fun. Gave you pleasure enjoy. So it was a a bonding experience for you and Austin that puts you in the present moment so your your theory has just broken down completely. Okay next problem next issue so I I read another issue new book that really resonated with me. That is an obstacle to get in the way of of mindfulness. Mindfulness and living in the present and and I keep forgetting this finding grace. I mean look at the book Oh Finding Grace says just finding grace race and that is fear. Fear gets in the way because we have this set of expectations of us that we feel we have to perform and if we don't perform it is very vulnerable and we are. We're going to be judged or rejected by other people if we don't and so that so so Our mindset is just so set set upon achieving task at hand that we don't see anything else at all because we know there's somebody looking over our shoulder evaluating our performance. Yeah and that's a big is enough in other words. I have to understand. The power of enough is enough and You know it's easy to just say ribbon. How can you ever be it? Let's just take her to sports. You take to musical you take it even my you know. So as as a speech maker people say to me but Tara Are Aren't you don't want to be the best speaker you can possibly W. B. in this moment with this group of people. Of course. Yes but if that's my motivation I am never going to be the best Terry. I totally detest the. And it's and it's unfortunately I've heard it in in religious environments that that your goal is to be the best you you can be. I don't I don't want to be the best me that I can be. That's too much work. That's the it it it requires. It requires an effort that I just am not prepared to make. Because I don't think it's worth it. I used so many times. The listeners are probably sick of that old. Bb King quote where he was talking to Blues Guitarist and he says don't try to be a great one. Just trying to be a good one and to me I I just I just try to be grounded in other words. Just try to be here because that's the whole thing. I mean let's go to sports. Golf Golf is my sport. 'cause golfers does what the truly spiritual people play. Yeah I see that all the time in golfers God what is mentioned frequently frequently frequently. Yeah no but the thing about golf is is that there's so much stress and anxiety exile visiting from somebody learning to quote be the best or have the best swing but you have to start with the swimming guy can be okay with the swing we just took at. That's a big deal can be okay with that. 'cause you can't change the things you love what you got you know. Do you know I'm sure you realize how radical you're this says this is a radical talk this is radical change. I mean when when you say paradigm shift this is this is more than a paradigm I'm shift this is a this is who you are shift. You're one of my drinks to do this back to golf again. But while I'll if somebody's base asking me to give them help on their golf game I walk them around for round. Can I say Philly scorecard out and keeping coordinator say what we're not keeping score. You're 'cause you have this mindset about what you're supposed to shoot I said let's talk about this is about the this is the power of the press I want you and so now you're going to have you're going to have eighty ninety swings and probably five or ten of them will be okay. I want you to celebrate those I five ten so before he shot. Tell me what's GonNa Happen when the shot and they'll tell me and either not go where they wanted to go if it goes were they think it said they wanted to go at Cetera and they hit their shot. I'll say okay market because if you have five of those at the end of the day by God you had a great day. It's a paradigm good. I'm ship none of celebrate who you are right now not a word. The irony is as long as they were thinking. I should've shot seventy five and I shot ninety. They're not going to celebrate the five shots they hit. They were brilliant. They're gonNA miss some completely. How does this? How does this concept? Keep in line with the great philosophers loss of of the world that have that are are so character oriented and so development of character. And there's a there's an evaluation have development of character so it's not production and American dream sense but it is enhancing our internal internal performance. How does how does how does living in the present integrate with those thoughts does that make sense? Yes yes sir I mean. That's that's the whole point. The thing about character is you're embracing who you all right now in your capacity to be the best you right now and I know you may not like that call best you right now but by best you I mean the one that embraces this Terry. That's what I'm talking about the capacity to embrace it. Yeah I can I can live with. I can live with that. The the best thing always always seems to be so. You're it's that idea that you're never can. It's an unachievable goal or that's not the best you. That's that's the U.. That someone else has for you. That's not the best you for you. That's the best you from someone else who asks them. So what do you think are the major obstacles and getting in the way of of of living this life. The the easiest ones distraction because we we live in a world where distraction is everywhere more distracting than we've ever been in our history so that's the easiest one There we have narrowed the narrative so the scripts tips from our upbringing. Mind is shame and perfection. You know that you have to be a certain way or if you're not a certainly you're screwed up etc you messed messed up and the other one is that you know if only in some day which is your you know the Orange County thing what I call to really American thing you know if only someday I'm Dave I will have the job I'm supposed to have the irony is young people like my son's age your son's age we're GONNA have eight or nine jobs and career and yet that we still have this Sunday you know that is that is so true that the the if only in some day and when I get then when I get then I wanna do i WanNa do a funeral for somebody and I wanted to the eulogy as you know my friend always said if only and I said well he finally happened reform while here it is. I'm not getting that. What am I not getting? You know if this happened then life will well okay if only find it happens for life and so whatever it is it is whatever it is. Yeah I get it okay. Let's quickly let's do this. We're run run in close out of time but I do want to cover the third. The you know your intention with the third section of the book today I choose to honor. What do you mean by that? It's about where do I invest myself. I don't I don't I mean I say this. I don't tell me what you believe. How people is what I believe? Don't ask but I believe look at my calendar and my bank account. Then you'll know what I believe my checkbook Netherlands. What do I honor? Tell me where I invest myself and I'm not talking money investment. I'm talking about who I am as a person. Where do I invest myself and when you walk around my garden with me? I'm not gonNa tell you what's pretty and finding best I'm Gonna I'm GonNa tell you what amazes me. That's that's right investment so I want to invest myself in this stuff so so this is this is about intention. -ality it's about intention alyce. Yeah tell me what your intentions are. Because I don't and I don't care what people want you to do. I don't care what you should and the irony. Is We invest ourselves. Sometimes prices will that. They're contrary to what we say in our head so that's one of the things is free for people people to see. Wait a minute. I don't want investments up there this I want to choose I choose to you. Know what's really unfortunate. It's not that we have. We have so many options so many blogs so many podcast all aw informing us of what we need to invest our time our energies in our emotions in that that people that are genuinely genuinely trying to live a full life of present life a mindful life can end up overwhelmed and by opportunity overwhelmed one hundred percent now. So how do I pick it can choose. What does it does it take? Does it take days of meditation. Does it take retreats. What what what does it? What does it require for me to the beginning of that that story I told about my hospice chaplain And she wants to know my long term goals. She didn't even ask me that. I love the patient I was with today so it starts with that first question so fine. You will unpack where you WanNa go and be induced. That's fine but tell me today in your work. What made are you glad to be alive? Tell me today in relationships you had by gave you joy in other words unpack with me times when you were alive and fully alive live in the present embrace those it's really consistent with you. Use The code of Jim. Elliot Wherever you are be all there yeah exactly? Yeah and that's and that's that's really critical because you know I have a habit Of even when I am driving to a place that I am extraordinarily familiar with like today when I'm driving to the podcast and I and I was driving to the to the club to do the preparation for the podcast. I put it on my navigation. Why why why do I need to know where I where I've gone every day for a hundred and thirty days yet? I just want to know how long it's GonNa take okay. It's seven minute drive okay out. I'm I'm fine but why why do I find. Line that necessity to measure and have pre-measured for me. So I can. I can put that out of my mind right I I I mean the the the point of any of this is undoing on doing things that block. That's the key instead of giving ourselves grief for is what choices do we make to undo it. This is really a game of subtraction subtraction not addition one hundred percent one hundred percent take layer off. And you'll see something you you didn't that you got was there. And it seems to be genuine and Richard Wars terms genuine second-half living That's actually true. That's actually true. I mean you asked about why do we have to be able to sit yet but I mean we might as well admit it. There's something about Something that comes with age that you see something that doesn't mean we don't see a one young. I honor and when people see it and I want people to see things when they're young but yeah I agree. Let's close with this. There's an close with my own story. that I that I read in travels with F. Occurs With from by Daniel Klein and I've probably used A. Why should I know when I interviewed? TV Daniel Daniel Client we we. We did it in. And it's talking about an old Old Greek man who sitting on a rock near the ocean sipping a Well it's not a glass of WHO's Oh but at some sort of container for Ouzo like a shot art glass of of of WHO's Oh and he's in the middle of it very disheveled olive garden and a very very rich Italian American came and asked the old man who owns this olive garden in new old man says well I do and and he says well. Why don't you you know all of oil is very expensive and very profitable in the United States? Do you realize if you were to clean this up and hire some people to work for you you could. You could really make a lot of money from this and when you make the money you could hire people to do all of your work and you could have a nice home and then you could do anything you want to do anything that you want to do you. You would have the funds and the and the means to do whatever you want to do in the old man looked at him and he said you mean like sitting on a rock drinking news on looking at the ocean. Exactly like what I'm doing right now quite. I'm doing right now Terry. That's the story. I love your book. I love your concept it is. It is I I really wanted to throw some some challenging things because I I know it's so difficult for us because we have in your second point. What gets in the way we have so much? It's getting in the way especially the cities in urban areas But it's true in every area is true in every area. But we have. We have so many distractions as you've called them that that we do need to subtract instead of adding things we do need to subtract great job Hirsch Thanks for spending time with me today and I do want to encourage our listeners to check out your inspirational racial post called Sabbath moment that can be found at Terry. Hershey Dot Com and I want to thank our listeners for tuning in to the next chapter with Charlie and and be sure to check us out at our website the next chapter dot life that has all of our podcast and oliver blogs and some videos with you and I some old videos in you and I I did that are still quite quite pertinent on that and so until next this is Charlie hedges signing off by for now and right now when you come in and switch to t mobile you get the amazing iphone. Eleven pro on us with iphone tennis. trade-in aren't these mountains majestic Joe are you even looking the posting. These amazing pictures. I took with my iphone eleven pro. It has three cameras low. 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#111 Terry Hershey: Why Cant We Talk About Religion and Politics?

OC Talk Radio

53:02 min | 2 years ago

#111 Terry Hershey: Why Cant We Talk About Religion and Politics?

"Here comes again lunch will be the same old same old or are you ready to take a vacation from the ordinary with the new Jamaican Jerk Turkey sub at firehouse subs freshly sliced smoked Turkey breast crave ably sweet mustard sauce and a hint of Carribean seasoning just five fifty five remedium save time order the new Jamaican Jerk Turkey sub on the firehouse subs APP firehouse subs enjoy more subs save more lives participating locations limited time only plus tax prices may vary delivery welcome everybody's time once again for the next chapter with Charlie hedges as he explores turning the page on his his life and yours. Hey Charlie Hey Paul. It's good to be here with you today and our good friend Terry Hershey. I'm I'm looking forward to this show because we are planning to discuss the the two most taboo subjects in the United States religion and politics well. I'm not so sure we'll actually talk about religion and politics but more about why we can't talk about them. What is the reason we can't talk about religion and politics <hes> Terry Hershey is with me today interiors quite passionate about both politics and religion yet? He is fully aware of the deep seated issues ramble topics as a public speaker. He Faces Z. issue. Every time he stands up on a podium. When he speaks to a religious audience he has to be careful to speak their religious language? Whatever denomination or are sect he is talking to our risk being sacrificed on the the altar of heresy when he speaks to the public at large he must be ever so cautious not to offend someone that does not agree with the politics he is so deeply passionate about and he is passionate about both breath religion and politics <hes> now? What's what's going to make this podcast really interesting as tearing? I had a discussion on this subject yesterday and said boy that'd be a good topic for <hes> for podcast. Let's do it and then <hes> Terry Terry forgot that we were going to do a podcast and I forgot what the subject was and so so he's been working in his garden all day and your garden exp beautiful right Teri Garr fantastic yeah I need to guard the garden is the bomb need <hes> from both religion and politics continue on with that just for a moment that one of the well our when we get to whatever whatever jerks are chain when our chain is jerked that there's something about ourselves that's not tethered and so we're susceptible <hes> we're <hes> and but when we're grounded I mean think about just a simple thing think about times when <hes> you snapped it somebody angrily and you're not only angry at them but there are other times they've done the same thing and you haven't snapped. What's the difference the differences there's times when you're you've slept value eight meanwhile you be arrested? You have no worry and and and your behavior shows it you you don't you don't let us baseball language which you will but you will resonate with you. Don't have to swing at every pitch yeah if you do swing at every pitch. You're not right in the head. Is that true correct Kris so the garden it helps me be right in the head have Su- helps you look for that fastball down the middle. Well it helps me helps me breathe. It helps me relax. Yes it helps me be censored. <hes> it helps me be comfortable in my own skin and so yeah I can. I liked it. I liked that that that that phrase he uses it helps you be <unk> censored and that's your censoring yourself said Senator Oh centered they said censor. Does it help you be censored. Well I mean yeah I don't. I don't need their certain things that I would say when I'm when I'm not my best self when I'm tired for example <hes> when when I traveled to too many events in too short a period of time had too many trips. I haven't slept well. I'm I'm going to react in a way that's probably not going to be helpful. conversationally and I'm going to say some things I'd probably will regret to make sense yes and and because our our filters we we have no filters no no safeguards and I and I think he you know it's appropriate. It's appropriate censorship. Safeguard is a good word. Boundary is a good word about just what kind of boundaries we have <hes> Bayliss of yeah the garden <hes> My my first question is tell me tell me where you're grounded and because because we live in a world that is so <hes> the speed is mocked twelve and and <hes> and information is is like a from fire we're can <hes> water can and and we're bombarded all the time. It is no wonder we're not at home in our skin so basically we're swatting and I you can see why we're everybody's so pissed. You know grounded is it. Granted is a good word because I know many people and I'm just this is observing so I you know I certainly don't know the core of their soul but they they seem to be grounded in either. They're in there either in their politics or their religion though seemed to be you know not maybe not the totality of their grounding but a large portion of who they consider as how how they consider themselves and how they consider <hes> social responsibility and social <hes> inside how that impacts them personally and so the grounding in religion and politics is a very strong I it's a very strong measure. Don't you think yeah at one level I mean I'm I'm. I'm underneath both both of those in the sense of just there's an emotional spiritual wellbeing that comes from being in. I'm going back to where centered to be centered. <hes> I'm not I'm not blown off course easily when I'm centered centered you know I don't I don't snap. I don't bite <hes> you know. I hear that word a lot centered <hes> what what what do you what do you mean by that. Well think of a ship think of a boat I mean when when your center you can sail and can cruise the you're not censored there storms and and you're going from side to side and not balanced at all and you're thrown off balance and can you have nothing to balance you and you have nothing to balance you and so basically you're grabbing shouting and and you know that's what not centered is well would it religious people say that they are centered in their in in their particular belief system yeah but my argument would be that their belief system doesn't center them. It's <hes> being being okay with that belief system because I I for starter I mean for starters with religion religion. There's a belief system so you start with creed or I believe in. I believe this. I believe that <hes> you know just are the basic I believe in God okay what kind I believe in this guy okay. I don't okay those are belief systems but as you as you know very well I was raised in a church where I wasn't censored in that belief even though I believe it because it was predicated on on some what if I screwed up predicated Richmond Yeah I'm always worried. Wait I'm always looking over my shoulder so I would. I wasn't really set in that however yet as a just technically yes that's true you can be censored in that but the century is that your <hes> your your faith in your religious belief system makes you a better person it brings out the best of who you are. That's when you're centered and you're comfortable there <hes> and and and yes so that yeah how and how frequently you know since we'll just we'll get onto the politics side of in a bid but how frequently on the religious side are people centered to the point that it gives them freedom and power our to be at peace and comfort and and non judgmental and non adversarial against everybody else but that I'm I'm comfortable in what my what I believe and what I consider to be a truth to the degree that that I can call something a truth but I have no ness I feel no no impulse or <hes> or or responsibility ons ability to make somebody else think or feel the same way I do about this particular religion. He yes <hes> like adversarial. That's a good more or the need convert <hes> right that the I mean yeah to to feel because the belief is not is not just the be able to assent to. It's not a cerebral thing so cognitive thing. I think that's what we've done. In the Western world is we've made believe a cognitive thing you know that you have to understand it or comprehended and therefore say it and the irony of that is I think about it this way Charlie. If if here's here's how you know the difference if if you and I know you well enough to know what some of your cognitive beliefs are and you live into some of them well and some of them you're not sure about because you don't know quite how to attach them to your daily early life same with me same with all of us however if you're I know the ones if you're comfortable in your own skin and and you're talking with me and I'm talking about a God that's different from the God you believe in in your if you're comfortable on your skin you just you say that's interesting exactly exactly yeah. Tell me nor it in other words. It doesn't trouble your belief is my point it it. It doesn't rock your boat. You're you're still content and comfortable and grounded in the fact that the God usually then makes you safe so you're good and who knows you might learn exactly so what is so so what is it about out religion that that generally are often elicits quite the opposite behavior in Ir and anger and and you know before you know what people yelling and screaming lean and calling the name only because one of the primary <hes> one of the primary things that <hes> God God is taught on and predicated on and many religious teachings injure predicated on is who you are is not okay and so you and so essentially you are looking over your shoulder and you're living with anxiety and you're busting your butt to be okay so is <hes>. How does his fear come into that what you said supporters? You're afraid I'm afraid I'm not enough. I'm afraid I'm going to be wrong. I'm afraid that this yours is different and therefore what I'm afraid that I don't have the capacity to to be worthy of whatever it is. I've been given all those things were given to me. Talk to me every single one of them yeah I just <hes> I just read a book Terry. <hes> that's by a <hes> you know pretty famous in highly regarded Christian author who promoted some of the beliefs that are prominent in eastern Christianity and he's promoting them to a Western audience and I have no doubt that he's going to be deemed a heretic and already been he already has has he. I've tried to look it up and I didn't see how yeah the I mean. The Vatican has but there there are certain bishops who won't allow how any Catholic churches in their diocese to invite him in a really in in Catholicism and can you imagine what it's like in protestantism. It's what he's be but we know what he's teaching and he yeah but but he's teaching and he has a lot of Protestants that come to his his a retreat center and all the as you know he may have as many Protestants Catholics that go his seminars and and his staff to your point to your point though to your plate is he Richard Royer talking about he he offers a it's an invitation invitations powerful thing that you you the the your faith grounds you and so there are many many people who have been kicked out of or buffeted or had experiences with their religious faith. That's unnerved them and many people who are not necessarily or even religious were rory who are <hes> <hes> come alive listening to that because it is about being centered and grounded in anybody that in anybody that challenges you know <hes> Richard is challenging not just some tangential beliefs in the in Western theology. He's challenging me. You know perhaps the single most core issue out there and so so it's just I'm interested to see what's going to be the result of that yeah. Yeah I mean I it's it's insane that you're I mean. I just finished by Fisher. Dan is a French yeah and he stared quite a bit yeah. CAYARD was a was a was a priest and but he was also a scientist paleontologist and he and so he married the two worlds co he did yeah yeah. He <hes> the his amazement. What did what did he find an in in China? I read his biography and I can't he find he found it was like the missing link that they shifted because the Catholics didn't like what he was saying so they shipped him off to China and they shipped him off to an archeological dig where he found it was something some some kind of man I can't can't recall the name of the man but it was like the missing link and it was just so ironic that they shipped him off to get rid of them and they put him right in the middle of it and I don't know I didn't I didn't I didn't know that probably story. Oh Yeah it's really strong you know it said it's set of of of T._R.. Day shared and that he had <hes> two photographs or two pictures not photographs they would be to paintings of <hes> in his in his in his room and that was all it was on the wall. One was John The baptist. The other was Charles Darwin. That's good so he really you know they were always trying to ship him off if somewhere else because you know he had his firm beliefs in which you know he's now considered by many you know one of the most you know you go highly regarded contemporary gives gives out there yeah yeah yeah so so as we were talking I think yesterday the word fear really came up and and and and in the religious in the religious realm I can I can understand that because that's a that's a core belief and that's a belief of current life after live you. You know it has a a moral code all around it and and and there's this there's this unfortunately so much of religion is is based around exclusivity that that our essentially tribal yeah or or or or even worse you know because it's if if you don't if you don't believe as we believe you know and this Heaven Hell issue is such a big issue. You know you go to heaven dial. I know think about it. It's not even it's not even we don't even get back at that point of of <hes> you know let's say you're having dinner and you're with a group of people and someone says <hes> I feel bad about so and so because they're not a Christian they're going to hell and then someone just says Oh. That's interesting because I don't I believe in hell now that might that might lead to an interesting conversation or might just stop the conversation dead in its tracks right more likely the ladder and I don't I think is GonNa Stop the conversation right in its tracks. It's just GonNa take it a whole different direction and that's why we say you can't talk about religion and politics because it's just going to so let's I on an interesting note just because I tried to we had a conversation about this because I returned this last weekend I travel and speak and I was doing an event in Virginia with a group of men for measuring and they asked me to do the topic of Christianity in politics which I which I really interesting and so yeah especially your politics with Christian said so. Let's reduce thanksgiving. I just sit silently for the through. Let's just eat yeah. Let's just see so. I talked. It's interesting because <hes> because I would. I'm Michigan boy. That's where I was born and raised right right. Yeah and Colon Michigan didn't go. I didn't go to U. OF M.. I would've if it has geology but I didn't I would have my brother went to Michigan State but the point is this <hes>. I live this out a little bit <hes> a year ago I was doing an event in Columbus. Ohio and my friend has season tickets to the buckeyes and and so we went to the shoe for football well Michigan People in Ohio state people they don't dislike. It's a hate yes yes I mean literally is a hatred. It's one it's one of the strongest revelries resent in college sports yeah and so pick a rivalry and <hes> this is the interesting thing is that my the first knee-jerk is about anything about them is going to be negative. It's it's automatic and and so there's something in the human spirit it's curious I mean this is what your religion what is it. What is it that makes us that tribal? What are we afraid of? What's going on the and that's about my question until you terry? What are we afraid of? I think it is about a my question and it's and it's like like take that take that wh wh- when when you look at the importance on the scale of life the rivalry between Ohio state and you them is is meaningless in other is there's there's no point to it and yet and yet you know there can be fights in the parking lot and and absolutely and so and and what what are they afraid of Terry. Okay let me to answer that but I just pull something I had. I got a circle back here. Okay so these these guys I got it. Oh Yeah I WANNA get on that okay. Let's go back to that. What I just started? I started with this with them. That Jesus Circus disciples up to the mountain and gathering them he taught them saying blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven blessed are the Meek I did the whole thing right then Simon Peter said do we have to write this down is is this going to be on. The test is other words this going to separate us from them. Yeah what are we afraid of <hes>. Why does there need to be an in them because we live? We live so much of so much and you know and I hate to admit it but there is an us and them part of me. You know that I have every single one one of US Charlie at every single one of us is it's it's ingrained and it's and it's just something about who we are will be taken away. Okay now. Now we're getting out. It's something about because you you you use. Here's the word safe safe or safe safe safe for safety in other words that I can. I can be there okay. I'm <hes> <hes> I the tethered part. I'm tethered here and not just it's what about being grounded per se the safety part. Is that <hes> nothing well. Nothing will come at me that will derail me so let me tell you a story and then we'll keep talking about this so in the nineteen fifties. He's there was a tiger in Washington Washington D._C.. Zoo the National Zoo. His name was Mo- Heaney. He was <hes> what do you call. Is there white they don't have colored top final by <hes> vinyl Vinyl Siberian tiger so unbelievably rare majestic creature and he lived there and that was the old days in zoos. Just cages remember right used by the Tigers do in the in the lions doing those cages pay circle yeah pay say walked in this was a trial by twelve. He did a little twelve by twelve. That's what he says all day so the Washington National Zoo changed and so then they put them in they made it news zoo like we have now just like San Diego's. There's they have vast bits of land that the animals live in that are going to be more. What would what would imagine as free correct liberated right? I'm worried I know where this is going. I'M NOT GONNA lie who wouldn't want that who wouldn't want that so mo- Heaney this. It's just it's unbelievable story. Sorry has a new half Acre half Acre of kind of land that tigers would love <hes> from wherever tigers come from anyway that I date mohegan walks the entire half acre to check it out and he found a place in the back corner that was twelve by twelve and he walked back for the rest of his life so that's fascinating that the takeaway from that is is what what would you say. There's something comforting about a thing that we can that. We believe we can control there. I think you're getting onto something something that we can control and we believe we can control. We believe we can control and something that that also. There's a there's a there's a portion of it that is protective. Isn't it that by believe in in this. I am protected against them. Yeah well for starters. I just walked my twelve by twelve. I'm protected against uncertainty of having to explore the restaurant Acre right <hes> <hes> you know <hes> I'm on. I'm protected against <hes> the <hes> the discombobulation of new things that are happening to me in the day in other words. I equate what I what I believe is. Certainty I equate that with WHO I am. That's and so anything that questions that that's where fear comes and I think that's I think that's a very important point is that our beliefs are not just beliefs but they are markers of our identity and when you question when you question that belief system then you're now questioning my wii identity who I who I am as a person and therein lies the fear that if that gets questioned that I'm no longer I no longer have any place to stand stand. I'm I'm sort of standing in move with my feet in mid air yeah <hes> because it's a fascinating thing that that for for whatever reason we've decided we decided to wed our identity to that is to these cognitive cerebral sort of attachments <hes> and when when they're taking away or when I mean even Moheli's case it was ellen taken away. It was changed but he reverted because he found safety in that twelve twelve quick. Let's <hes> I wanna I wanNA continue on and I I WANNA move <hes> from from we've been focusing. I've seen largely on religion and I wanna I wanNA focus on on the thing that's causing all the trouble in the United States right now and that's that's politics and why we can't talk about politics so let's take a quick break and we'll come back and we'll we'll <hes> <hes> tackle Babylon mm-hmm <music> Hi this is Charlie hedges and you're listening to the next chapter with Charlie and I'm speaking with my good friend Terry Hershey on a topic that he he and I talked about on the phone yesterday and said Gee this would make a good podcast and we're talking about <hes> what are the what's at stake when you when you talk about religion or politics and and we're we're not necessarily taking any kind of position I'm religion and politics because <hes> oddly enough as close as we are we have we have similar yet dissimilar beliefs in both of those yet we're able to discuss them and and we've been talking about religion and you know in talking about <hes> well other things that that that form our identity he and there's a fear that my belief if my belief is challenged then my identity is challenged and of my identity is challenged. I I sort of become less than would you say Terry they. They become yeah you yeah you yeah once you start to say you know who am I in <hes> you know your sense of value. I agree with that yeah and why wouldn't why wouldn't it be better to be to say my my sense of value is curiosity and I'm curious why people believe what they believe and and if it challenges my belief you know this is the way I I work. A challenge is my belief but at the end of my research and evaluation and contemplation I find that their their position Russian makes more sense you know I guess I've been given the grace to be able to adopt another position and safe. You know if it makes more sense then then I you you know I swear I'd like to say don't believe what I say today because I could change my mind tomorrow if somebody were to give me good evidence <hes> but why is it. We live right now in a world. We live in probably the most political world. Would you say the United States ever faced. I don't know it's face to my lifetime. I can't say ever but the most political world is faced in my lifetime and it is so disheartening and it's so it's so separating that the the difference between you can't even say Republicans because he's not really a Republican. It's trump trump v the Democrats <hes> no that's accurate yeah yeah but it you know I it. It causes vitriol. I mean you you know. Just you know you look at that. You look at the Congress Congress people that go on air and you know senators go on air and and the news and and the news reporting whether you listened to Fox are <hes> M._S._n.. Or C._N._N.. E You know you get you get. There's nothing but anger that that that you get there and and condemnation what what what brings that all about why it's politics I I can understand Stan how religion can bring up such such ir but why does politics do it. Why do we identify so much with political system while efficient she trump? I wish we had more time to talk about this but we've run out of time very good to be with you. You know what's fascinating is that I don't I actually requested to I mean the way the way people react in a tribal <hes> environment <hes> politics wise is no different than the way I was raised as a religion where they the other people were going to hell and we we talked about them quite frankly and openly about them going to hell <hes>. was there any was Ernie sort of sense of pride in that Whoa that I'm in and you're out. It's not it's not pride. It's it's it's very mo heaney like I've got my twelve twelve o'clock yeah okay can you don't okay and and there was some. There's something about that because <hes> you're looking over your shoulder just to get just to get somebody to wink at you and say that good because you you're not. You're not comfortable enough in your own skin to say this is who I am and this is what I believe elite because you don't you believe you're okay <hes> and zinc about politics so I started the guys with this that politics gotta change words. Please please please politics when politics just the wooded sceptre simply means learning to live together living together yeah you you brought that point up to me yesterday and I was quite fascinated with that. Politics is just living together for example. We all pull in their several of us with cars pull into a parking lot. There's only x number spaces is excellent cars that politics to living together. It's a social system. Yes another way that social you navigate the things you do so that there's this many people on the planet to do this. That's politics ticks now. The irony is usually irony. We would get out of the car. We figure that out politically in a way that probably it may be somebody probably would probably would would probably do okay okay so then the question is how is it that in certain areas of because I switched to from politics which is living together which all of us believe it all of us. Do we have to to to. Policy or governance now that is your question. Why is it that the for in our history that your choices about governance makes enemies of other people that has not that's that's relatively? I knew that the way you choose to govern or the way you choose using my illustration to organize the parking. Lot is different and I say to you. It's not just about polity see it's not just about about governance because the discussion about holly urban ours the parking lot. We're GONNA disagree on Republicans are going to say and I use this alteration. Republicans are going to say okay. We're GONNA part the cars. Let's not have a big government. Organizations is to tell who parks the cars you know right across. You'RE GONNA say you have to have a committee of five people to park the car parking lot attendant yeah exactly so my players we get that ah we get that but this is different now if it's not just about but we can have that we can hash that out you can say to me this one parking lot attendant and it's only this hour's was okay but we've done however but now I sit down at Thanksgiving and you can't say anything why what's going on because now it's infected. It's infested not just the government's or policies 'cause we're not talking about governance or policy at these discussions Russians. It's simply about civil discourse. It's about the way we we be right one on them and and it's very and it's very in our especially in in today's system is very personality driven as well. Yeah I mean <hes> I think yeah I I think <hes> I just wish I mean this is just me speaking personally. I mean the people that I know and I okay my father. My father was in Michigan <hes> voted for Donald Trump and I because my father and I can have conversations about this so whoa tell me about this and and and he'll say one reason is he didn't like the other candidate okay fine fair enough but why do you like this king and and and then I'll ask him. Are you comfortable with the discourse in the United States today and a part of him kind of is didn't quite know what to say but the other part says but but he's a fighter now this is fascinating to me and that's why <hes> I going back to the voice in this mean I had if it means living together. Can we agree on that. We have to live together. Every one of them said yes. No one worried about whether we voted one way or the other. We're GONNA have to live together. Yes okay so if we're GONNA live together. Choices about living together predicated on values there enough. Yes what are those values and we made a list we spent two or three hours working on that really really yeah because <hes> and so and then I said and then we had an interesting discussion because these values had to do with with empathy and listening and compassion I mean you Paul Values in connection commuter wizar- concurrence between two different sides or were they all one one side of the political spectrum are represented. That's the point I was making is the values there was concurrent on the values before we even named besides Oh so these people didn't know each other so nobody really knew or they didn't so everybody in the room so they never really knew everywhere. Somebody stood. What's that yes? They didn't know everybody in the room but the point is they had agreed on the set of values before they even knew what quote side that caught ah say that side yeah. It's interesting because you're not going to start what what I can't be on the side of the United States that no no you can't. There's no there's no such thing as as sad. I'm sorry sorry that side is not allowed. I have a room full of people who agree on the set of Baggies and so then so then what did you do. I'm curious. What what did you did you then go through policy the and see how it how it measured up to values or did you take that chance even well I? I said that that's that's something you have to do. From whatever side you're on. You have to ask how the policy plays out with that value but I'm wondering I said with regard to our dialogue with each other. How is it that we agree to this list of that US and yet there's GonNa be a screaming match at Thanksgiving House that a possibility ability that'd be something else at play exactly exactly and is that something else identity and fear of losing my identity is that is that the something else or one of them Middle East? I said to be honest. My friends wrecked be honest that for whatever reason we have tied our identity to something other than our. Oh my goodness terry boy you really hit on something there because that's that's extremely important once we began to tire identity to something other than our values and in our in our core driving values than it's it's just superficial garbage coach well I then impacts that that happens impact the lives of millions of certain if I'm certainly at the mercy of every of every curveball that sets up swinging this yeah yeah I 'cause I 'cause it was fascinating at the room. These guys agreed on their values and and <hes> Yes yes. Yes and you know how you on room yes. Yes yes now granted. If we going back to my parking lot issue the value of let's say the value of been fairness was one of their values they all agreed on in case. There's going to be fairness in the parking lot now. We may come at it differently but you know what at the parking lot lovely could've figured out and yet now when we have a quote political discussion in some somebody's name comes up. There's all of a sudden there's vitry as you said vitriol. What the Hell's going island? We realized the value. Do you think it would help if we really attempted to understand the position of the of the opposite side if we really took the time to to look at it honestly no active their stuff to do before that was that I don't really you know because part of me doesn't really care about your position because I I gave them a checklist. I said for conversations I give them. You know how the F._A.. F._A._A. gives pilots have a checklist that they had rang before right applying right so you have to do the same thing before you're gonNA have a conscious. It's like a checklist in angers the whole bunch of stuff on it but I said one of them is the issue is never the issue. The issue is never this in other words when people are fighting written. That's never this you think about marriage the thing you fight it out the number of the issue right. There's something else going on so what he did on underneath so so the first thing is. I realized that if I see the issues the issue that I'm I'm gonNA bite every time that somebody's saying something to me but if I realize underneath it is something going on this person that there's a person underneath the issue so you're asking should I understand. There's the side rather apart of me will but I I understand them. What's got him riled? What's got him concerned? What really are they concerned about? I mean I've had conversations with people will take stateless take a bullet. Let's take an issue that the border for example N._F._l.. I've had conversations with people and we can have a fight about whether to have a wall or not all but the point is what I'm having a conversation. I want to know what's going on in your life. Personally that makes you that triggers. Do things for you or that makes you ask these questions. What kind of questions can I ask you to figure you out? Not what you believe about the position of the policy that governs so I can empathize. I can empathize with how you feel about this precisely one hundred percent so I can see you as a person one hundred percent. Yes whether it's what's going on here. Yeah that's <hes> boy you know and that and that requires that that requires just a boatload of effort <hes> but see now you've touched on the reality about getting tested that that we can't resolve this cognitively we can resolve it with presence and boatload of empathy of empathy sleep and the fact is that though reasons that you and I say in pain 'cause when people are shouting learn pain okay. Let's shouting about if they're shouting. They're in pain. There's some kind of pain discomfort comfort so there's a reason to cars pays so medical doctors go through thing figure out where the paints come from. We got sick of this out yeah well I. I'm not sure we've resolved anything but we have <hes> certainly explored the issue of what's going on. <hes> well <hes> Charlie I would say the first thing I told the guys is that you know as much. There's I wanna because a lot of them want to understand either gentlemen the head or in in laws or Dar's laws or sunder laws all the stuff they want to figure them out and I said the first thing is just the first takeaway is how. How do you not be Morini twelve by twelve right your start there start what you bring into it with your pain? Where's the pain without whereas what and where are you grounded? Tell me where you're grounded aww yeah I think that's really critical the grounded. The you know the centered as you've explained it the values I think once we understand our own that gives us a reference point to try right understand somebody else's a one hundred percent but it is so so it really begins so so the issue really begins with a self evaluation of me who I am. Why am I so indoctrinated in this particular religious or political belief and why am I so indoctrinated to the point that I can come to anger and fighting at Thanksgiving this giving table over over such things? It's a big person to be self aware enough to say you know what here's here's what I'm worried about me here. Here's my triggers. Here's what the triggers are and and to be able to say for example if I if I have a difference with it's not just about governance but I've a difference with the Civil Dialogue Raton I need to be able to have discussion without <hes> without shouting someone down or condemning to have that discussion and and and to to not be offended because so you know the civil discourse does not mean dispassionate discourse there can be passionate without Charlie if people sometimes it we should have put a microphone in some of our conversations as you and I have the very passion yeah and finds that we're on the same page and they're great commerce. They're the best yeah and there's no. There's no offence taken no no no no because you and I have looked at the values and we've agreed to the values and they trump pardon my French. I don't think you would call it French. I think you'd call it something else every any disagreement yeah yeah and they are e.. Exactly that's what I think is that for for our listeners as not to confuse views <hes> civil discourse with dispassionate discourse <hes> but but that it doesn't have to be named calling and and and accusatory that there's something really you know you're. You're doing something really evil. Although I I'M GONNA post I agree with you. I'M GONNA post this thing <hes> for <hes> that a translation for southern speak that when someone says bless his heart and bless his heart he means yeah bless his little little hard yeah what is it it certainly does not mean those words blesses little hard now. Go slap the shit out of him yeah. I think that's a good that's a good place to close. Hey thanks for <hes>. Thanks for entering into this <hes> into this world pull a mess that we <hes> we find ourselves and and <hes> I like I like some of your your conclusion especially that your conclusions you know especially the values or oriented and and the willingness to have discourse <hes> <hes> if only we could do that without without trying to raise the ire of the other see. That's you know that's a whole nother subject that I don't WanNa get into because there's so much that goes on that people actually actually attempt to raise the ire of the other and and critics have been married before. I know that I yeah okay buddy. <hes> take care. It's <hes> thanks thanks for coming on and doing this with me. <hes> this is <hes> an especially you know this totally unscripted doc dialogue that we had here and and I would be our station that you and I would have <hes> I be having a beer but it'd be you and I haven't the conversation yeah then me with my <hes> with Nice sparkling on water yeah. Although I'm moving to ginger beer no good choice well yeah so look I wanna I wanNA encourage you to check out your <hes> your post-sabbath moment I I was just I received a comment on my Sabbath on my seventh moments on my on my blog about somebody that <hes> read your Sabbath moment and I talked to my priest yesterday as we were going over Richard Rohr's theology and he was mentioning in <hes> the the story you told of bridge building as opposed to the fence building and and <hes> he was very moved by that and so I just WanNa encourage our listeners a to <hes> check into your Sabbath with which comes out every Monday and can be found at Terry Hershey Dot Com and I want to also thank all our listeners for tuning into the next chapter with Charlie and be sure to check us out at our website the next chapter dot life until next this is charlie hedges signing off by for now right now you can get both sprints unlimited plan and the all new Samsung Galaxy S. included for just thirty five dollars per month per line for five lines. 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#150 Graham Hodgetts: Conversations in Quarantine-From Bomb Shelters to Quarantine

OC Talk Radio

42:30 min | 1 year ago

#150 Graham Hodgetts: Conversations in Quarantine-From Bomb Shelters to Quarantine

"Welcome everybody's time once again for the next chapter with Charlie hedges as he explores turning the page on his life and yours. Hey Charlie Hey Paul you know here we are in week six of quarantine you know on are recorded date of a twenty thousand nights two thousand twenty and today we continue our series titled Conversations in quarantine since all participants are working remotely. Paul and I are working from California albeit in private locations and our guests comes to us from his home studio in Pennsylvania Hall. I am really excited. Introduce Charleston's Mike Friend and philanthropy colleague. Graham Haji sits grams. Possesses grand possesses an impressive relay as a successful engineer. Scientists entrepreneurs and devoted philanthropist. His master's degree engineering was earned from Creighton tech in the UK. Where Graham was bored. Now I I met Graham three or four years ago a two thousand seventeen again where his company was drilling water wells for wells of life. The Gio I work with Grandma's the CO founder and president of a company named see an acronym for now get ready seed Christian East African Equatorial Economic Development. Trump's don't think I didn't rehearse out times Seat is headquartered in Pittsburgh. Pennsylvania operates in east Africa largely in Uganda but now expanding to Kenyan not only drilled water wells as well as manages a forty five Acre Coffee. Farm seat is thrown more than two hundred wells for wells of life but they have drilled more than three hundred sixty wells in total serving up to three hundred thousand residents in rural communities of Africa in addition to the above just to let you know grabbed credentials. He holds twenty two athletes and has taken thirty six short mission trips to Uganda since nineteen ninety nine but even more important like most successful men. I think Raham married over his head because because his wife I lean right. Hodges is the author of twenty seven books on good reads and her British. Myrtle murder mystery air raid was named. Best Book of two thousand. Nineteen by crocus reviews. In fact I'm wondering why am I NOT INTERVIEWING EILEEN? Well believe me. I have no doubt that Graham will entertain educate and inspire. It's all but just before we bring Graham on the air. I think it's important Niro to me. His sort of what? I'm calling philosophy of philanthropy and and I really liked us in quoting Graham writes. It is very difficult to bring hope to people who are sick and hungry or thirsty but it is impossible to bring it to dead ones why we were born into such affluence and others into abject poverty. It is only sensible to assume that in some way it is our responsibility to tend to the sick feed the country feed the hungry and provide clean water to the thirsty so they too can have goal and as I know Graham personally. This is indeed his mantra so with all of that. Let's bring grandma onto the show. Graham high touch you know. I've been calling you. Describe your great difficult for me. Because I've been mispronouncing your last name for three years. I've been pronouncing it as spelled Hodkinson. Now you tell me it's hodges and so I'm going to have a heart going through and so I wanna say Graham. Welcome to the next chapter with Charlie. And I found recessions in quarantine just Coleman you like Charlie you anything you anything I like. Well it's they will only be High things I think the world of you Before down deep and you know probably pun intended with wells but before we go down deep can you tell me what is life like in quarantine for you and Eileen well it's actually not bad we in Pennsylvania? We're allowed to go out do shopping or to get exercise. Walk the dog If we go to Location like a grocery store. We have to wear a mask of some sort although they don't specify what type of mosque just a a mosque and Other than that I I ride my bike and I we're making Audio books for my wife which means I spend a Lotta time doing sound engineering To clean up some stuff But in general it's It's pretty good. How did you figure out sound engineering? I mean this is not this is. This is a bit of a complex endeavor. I just got interested in What it would take. I mean my wife and I both Have backed it in the theater in in the local repertory etry and so they wait. Wait wait wait wait. You have acted in the in the local repertory theatre repertory. Oh Yes yes we. We've we've acted directed She's written Musicals and plays a national playwrights of repute and as well as writing books and she's acted and directed. I've been a musical director. I've composed and and provided music musical. So yeah we. We've been in the so-called drama seeing and so When it came time to look at the market for her books the fastest growing market is the audiobook market. And so we we looked at. How do we go about Narrating our own Her books and how do we? How do we get other people to come in right before us when we need special accents special voices yet? You know of all the time that we've known each other and it's not been that long three or four years in you and I have this. Last year started working much more closely personally. Inter personally in in our endeavors in Uganda. This is the first. This is really the first. I've heard of the arch imports in your life. Yes well that's because we've been doing something else. Newer a focused man. When you're talking when we're talking business you're talking business that's right that's the and I had an eye and then the funny thing for our audience to now he's here. You had this raw author for a wife. Those immensely run own and no idea I had to google or to find it out. Well you know I try not to try to mix business with pleasure. The Arts are to me. They're more than pleasure. The Arts Business. I'm a I'm a strong advocate of the arts So so you guys are keeping quite quite busy and you're clean. How much these cycle each day I have a fourteen mile course if a fourteen mile course you run a company that we will we? Will you know we've gotten into the as a minimum of two businesses related? You are in the middle of research. You're in the middle of Arts and I I have to this. I think this is so important for people to understand and and and I don't mean to embarrass you by this but I I think it's important to know because we're going to go way back in your history. How old are you Graham? I'm seventy nine B Eightieth September we. At and September in your cycling fourteen miles a day running businesses. Working with your wife that's That's absolutely a bunch of impressed. Well thanks very much and It's God given anything to do with me. Yes yes and and even and even you know when you say. It doesn't even have anything to do with you. It's really even the passion to do things as God given absolute not just the accident passion the on spiritual gifts to do that or all god-given Yup and And and and that philosophy I changed Change of wooding slightly because wooding should really have the Gospel and set of Hope Because the Gospel is hope period. It is in the story. You know what I WANNA do right now. Grandma I I was I had I had intended on bringing up this aspect of the show later but I think I think in the midst of the so many mixed emotions of what's going on in quarantine in Corona virus encoded night. Gene and era are people that are losing hope people that are becoming anxious and and live to return to normal very quickly because I was told by a friend of Mine Hell Hath No fury like an inconvenience to American and so what I WANNA do is I want to go back. You remember the Rocky Bowl. Week will show no Oh as a cartoon was one of my notes and all when I was a kid. It's an old cartoon and it's a it's about What was Rocky Squirrel or something Waco was and they had on there? Mr Pitt. Mr peabody's way back machine and he would go way back or we're going. I want to take us way back to London. Nineteen forty nine nineteen forty five where you experienced live life threatening nutsy nightly air raids in London. And what I'd like to do is get your perspective. On how catastrophic events can impact culture? Today we speak of Corona Virus Kobe. Nineteen and as of today as I said. Fifty eight thousand deaths and that that number is likely to see none likely as obviously going to increase but you have lived as well during the most cataclysmic events of the twentieth century will or two. You were six years old. During Nazi Germany's intense bombing in London known as the blitz. So the earliest ears of your wrecking recollection was composed of the horrors of world. War Two Hud. How did that impact to and and added you feel that impacted in society of Lenders? Well I don't know I don't know about the the Society of London as I can tell you. My reaction to the current crisis is very different from most because of that Experience when I was five and six years old Because I can I can I? I've still got my freedom. I can still go out in my car or on my bike. Oh woking and not be concerned about bombs coming down out of the sky And killing the me or the people that live close to me. I was born just south of London next to Croydon. Nephew Croydon was a target. Because the Hield House Spitfire Squadron from the RAF and so it was It was a target for bombing But also The the V. Two V. One was bad enough the V. One was the was the terror weapon the revenge weapon is Hitler. Cold it He knew his losing the wall. Explain WANNA be to to everybody. You know that okay. Well WE DO NOT HAVE WORLD WAR. Two people listening that much. Yeah the FI. One was a bomb was a a flying bomb that flew subsonic and was launched In Pena Melinda in Germany and Flew sub sonically with a pulse jet engine Revolutionary posted engine and it flew on a timer so when it when it got over The densely populated areas in London The time has stopped the engine and it It had a whistle on the nose of the bomb to terrify the people below. So when you heard the engine running Than it was somewhat reassuring that it wasn't coming down you but if you heard the engine stop and you heard this whistle getting louder and louder. You knew that it was coming Down in your neighborhood. And they were very destructive. They they killed about Twenty thousand people. I Believe v one of the being the wanted. Yeah but it was. It was not as it was. It was terrifying because you knew of his presence about the V. Two was the first time anybody has produced an intercontinental ballistic. Missile did actually entered space. Right when it went into space. And it came down supersonic Lee. So you didn't hear it. The first thing you knew was A house or a building or factory or something had exploded and been destroyed there was air raid siren. There was no There was no warning that it was going to happen and so You couldn't shelter in a in a shelter because you knew something was coming at you And so you were pretty well pretty well to continue to your life. As though they didn't exist otherwise life would have come to a complete standstill. They were the most deadly of all the weapons that we saw Hitler. Throw at us. And the and you know. And as an aside the the science and engineering of the V. Two was one of von Braun. Who was later to be? You can't in the United States and was later to be sort of the institutionalize or of NASA was not well. The satellite rocket that took young to the moon was the The entry of on Brown is that was ironic that he would be one that Got Us to the moon during the bombing. You had the you had the shelters that you can go to because he knew the bombing would come so every evening you went into the shelters did not right. We've spent every night in the shelters. At least most of the time in the shadows when at Perez went to sleep And and God bless them. They used to go to sleep even though the woman's befalling because they were so used to it but We as kids. We sneak out. Go sit on top of the shelter and kind of watch the fireworks. You know we typical kids so and and the fact of the matter is you know People complain so much about What appears to be A divided America with less versus riots. And you know the political almost hatred that's going on at and and my my encouragement is keep it up because these this ability to speak your mind to impose checks and balances on on your politicians. That will stop the formation of a regime like the Nazis. Nacion simply dominated the political scene and killed anybody. Who didn't agree with them? That's why we had A. That's why we had the Third Reich because it could exist because they had control over everybody's opinion no don't don't agree Get on facebook and say what you think it on your podcasts. And tell them what you think And and that way that will never be another Third Reich. That is such an interest intake because until hearing you say that my frustration has man. We don't have unity that we don't have the leadership at the top that is really bringing the country together toward some sort of direction. And you're saying that's okay as long as we have that it's okay necessarily but that we have the ability to to interact with them into authored. Offer our questions. Or or disagreements with it in which Nazi Germany did not have Nazi. Germany also happened right. You know as tippers rise was right in the middle of depression so the Germans were looking for some sort of some sort of Recognition some sort of that. We are as a people. We are. Okay we are not despised people. Well they they were looking for a leader to revive. The pride offered to being crushed to the advice. I because I was so punitive. It was stupidly punitive by the allies. And and you know if you if you if you may make somebody look stupid. They are going to try and revive their pride somehow and they just did so they just did it in in steroids. So if we were to take from your wisdom in your experience was just you do skim. Give some insight into The health of controversial health free speech basically. But what sort of personal lessons do you feel like you had were there any life? Changing aspects are impacting aspects of. You going through that those difficult times World War. Two not really. Because my life wasn't changing. It was the only time my life changed was when the war ended because everything before that was usual. I can remember walking across the bridge over the River Thames in London with my father and seeing all the pleasure boats the boats that took people up and down the River Thames on sightseeing tools. And they were all more food. My Dad Those troop carriers and he said no no there pleasure boats and I said what a pleasure boat soon he said. Well there are things it on and we go and see the sights In peacetime and my question was what is peacetime where it is peacetime and he had to explain what peacetime was and it wasn't until I was Six years old that I remember them giving me a stick with a red white and blue ribbons on the same. You can go outside and And you can go wherever you like. Don't go too far away from home but you can go out and wave these around and celebrate the fact that the war is over and so I remember my sister and I very. This is a very clear memory. We ran up to the top of the road and we climbed on the Topalov. The bum bum damaged while a bomb destroyed house that had been destroyed by V. Two rocket suddenly at the end of the big middle of the day the end of the road a house just basically disappeared and ended up as a pile of rubble and we climbed on top of that rubble and wave these red white and blue ribbons. Because we didn't have flags in those days were all. The cloth was being used for the war effort and waving the in the air and realizing that stump something was not gonna come out of the Sky Killers. One of the differences between that such that scenario scenario we are now is that it's a narrow hadn't end there was a determining land that you can change your life from and make we have no way right now since we are testing so inept and so so random so few that we have no idea. What's the beginning where we even really are in the state of affairs let alone entering some kind of this is the end to the spread of the virus and so we just we live with this vast uncertainty and and feeling that is what's troubling people in some people want to protect themselves and others and while other people are in direct opposition? Saint Hope they attention to a people are going to die. Anyway. Let's get out and Navarre lives normally. Do you have any impressions of that? Well put it all in context again. You know I lived in a war in which six million people died. We have a situation in which road accidents caused around thirty thousand deaths a year in the United States alone and that's growing and will continue to do so and there is no end in sight for that for the corona virus. We can say there isn't we just don't know when it's going to go. It's the same with Suicides Charlie suicides. We're we're in in the tens of thousands of suicides per year and they're increasing and they're increasing actually during this corona vice a period when we when we had so-called lockdown again Suicides in general don't have an end date. We don't know when they're going to win. At least with the Corona Virus. We know it's going away and and And in the end is going to be a blip in history. Let's keep it in context and And and let's Let's recognize that That we shouldn't be anxious. Sweet we we should. We should put at trust in in that we trust and And be ready for Miracle Miracle. I concur I. I think that there is There's only so much that we Is that our scientists in our epidemiologist and our in our business leaders can do because of because of you know what's are have you heard of the The acronym Volka the venerable uncertainty complexity and ambiguity and that is the world. We lived in for a number of years now. And it's just it's just heightened during the Kovic time but that it is vulnerable uncertain complex ambiguous culture we have to we have to learn to manage our businesses and our lives in the midst of this and the corona virus has exacerbated that inching drastically e you when you say that this is the end of the day this will be a blip in the radar that's probably offensive than some but it is in the scope of history is absolutely true. It's not just the numbers. Tell the story and from my point of view God is still in control is got a reason for this so let's not be anxious. There's no worry about it. Let's leave it in his hands do what we can to mitigate it follow the advice of the of CDC and and keep it to a minimum but But there's no point in being anxious and there's certainly no point in panicky die as a said jokingly but it is it is so true or seen it all over the country that that I love that Line Hell hath no fury like an inconvenienced American and it really is the desk. You're serious but a lot of it is too many people just inconvenience. That they can't they can't do what they want to do. Can't go to movies. They can't go to restaurants. They have to wear masks. They have to do the normal. Life is on suspension or the. What was the normal? Life is on suspension. But I don't see it being the four or five years. That are five or six years that we experienced in World War Two. Well believe it or not. We all die. Will you bring that? Is that is a perspective that I you know. I certainly you know as a as a Christian and STOIC. You know it's a very very important. Part of my life is the the truth of of death. And how that impacts my light and that the philosophers old all had skulls on their desk to remind them that they're going to die and that they must live live active in their lives right now as Churchill say action this day the Brilliant Gel. Let's you know what I WANNA do is if my producer is on the line our take a quick break. We'll take we'll take a short break and then we'll come back with you on the line ball. Yes I gave you the thumbs up here. You're not watching it watching your monitor. Oh will you were dead on my monitor for a while. So I came back I appeared out of the out of like the society itself appeared back out of nowhere here. The Rising Phoenix okay. Let's still break your hi. This is Charlie edges and you're listening to the next Chapter Charlie. This is charlie edges in. You're listening to the next chapter with Charlie and my special guest. Graham Hodges who is co founder of seed is scientist engineer and as we just discussed so fascinating was Experienced the blitz in London of Nazi Germany bombing and the V one and V two missiles that accounted for so many deaths and his his ideas of how we how we handle crisis after crisis and in the middle of crisis. But what I want to do now is I want to completely change traps and and I wanna I wanNA talk just just for the last ten minutes of our conversation here. I WanNa talk about philanthropy. I WanNa talk that that. Even in the midst of these crises we still have a developing world that is facing cove in nineteen is just another another cause of of death in poverty and what is the number gram of people in abject poverty. You're close to. We're closing in on half the population of the world. Are we not billions billions yet? They call them the bottom billion and and we need to. I think it's important for all of us to to do something on that. And in your I call it a flat. You just lost me. But I called philosophy of philanthropy. And that you ask the question. That's really a good question. I think it's probably probably. There is a spiritual contents and that why do we especially in first of all countries and especially in the United States? Why do we have it so good? When abject poverty exists for almost half the world's population how is that even explainable the only conclusion that I can come to because I'm a Christian is that In in the the handbook of life which I call the Bible Jesus gave us A comment Mama to to love one another loving one another means not just saying I love you but doing something about it and so I believe that allowing me to be born in an affluent society And to and to have treasures and knowledge that other people in the world don't have is a responsibility that he has given me in order to be able to share that with the people that aren't so fortunate and that is love in action not just in sentiment. I so concur and eased a very important word that I don't think is used often and churches or in much in many doctrines of Christianity and adds word. Responsibility is that we were created a you know. In the first chapter of the Book I Chapter Genesis to take care of the of the earth and the responsibility I I was called a divine mandate that there were three parts of the divine mandate. We have totally ignored that court. And it's an and it has responsibility to take care of not only the environment but the people that live in that environment and I heard Speaker sometime back to talked about the enfranchised disenfranchised this speakers point was that it is the responsibility of the enfranchised to share and promote health literacy life with disenfranchise earns. That is that is our responsibility if we are given those gifts and we share those gifts absolutely i. I believe that that's a a divine mystery that we console As to why it occurred that way but we can certainly react to it and become Proactive in In sharing the the gifts and treasures that have been bestowed upon us without US asking for them. It begs the question. Why would you give them and the answer? As far as I'm concerned is because we're responsible for being good stewards and sharing those with the people that are that. Don't have them agree. And you know I I just I just completed this morning a A book by the Mystic Thomas Merton and it was titled Thoughts in Solitude and Throughout this book in mysticism is is truly an correctly understood as very deep mystical relationship with with the essential essence in essential nature of God but Merton is very cleared that it is also it's not just sitting in silence and in solitude with God it is expressed by it is expressed in ordinary and mundane life and then he pretty much makes the point that we only we only know that we love God as much as we love other people in other people on the planet and if we if we say we love God but we don't truly our actions not just saying that we love our actions demonstrate that kind of love and it's an act of demonstration than it somewhat less than in the eyes of the mystic and that is that is kind of surprising. Men's you read the mystics and his most people understand mistakes that you know one of the most profound mistakes that has you know current mystic Thomas Merton. You know that were. That was his conclusion tonight. I so concur with that that that our love of God is demonstrating the by not our love of. Let's take that word away but our actions toward other people. Whether they are in franchise disenfranchised and maybe even more relevant to the disenfranchised. Yeah I mean the fact is Jesus student. Come to Earth and spend his time standing in his country shop or in the synagogue Speaking about about salvation. He went out and and did things including sacrificing his own life in a very tragic way In order to and that salvation so he showed us how to do it and the other thing he said was Which is which gives me some. Hope is they will always be the poor. So don't use the fact that you can't solve the complete problem as a reason not to act in the first place so you take the take that first step and help that first person for that first group of people or the first thousand dollar first million or whatever it is. You'll cool too because that's the task that's in front of us. Count just wave a magic Christian wand and solve the world's problems and he never said we could in fact he said we could no. We can't solve the world's problems but we can we can contribute to hope and to actual physical Improvements there are things that we can do that we are called to do and and I think expected to do the step happen. Until you've taken the first step agreed or if it does who knows a second step could lead them. I you know. If you're just marrying reacting good all of a sudden you you may be able to be thinking about what is a causation. Or what is the driving force? Behind all of this and one thing that I like about the Franciscan View. It's a different view of of the cross While I I take the majority view of the ransom idea the cross which were probably talking about things at the listeners and not really grasping totally but that the Franciscan view is that Jesus also modeled for us to the Cross. His identification with our suffering and that that he sweated blood in the garden and he suffered a horrendous step in which even said my God. Why has thou forsaken me? And that he for a moment felt the loneliness and abandonment of God and that he was able to so he is able to mourn with us that loneliness that that miss connection or disconnection and can come alongside and enhanced that because he's always was a struggle but he had between being a man and being God. Yes yes bill. Graham weak- gone theologically forever. I know that. Thank you what. What an extremely prolific end and expensive life. You have lived and continue to live right now. I I you know you're a role model to me And I'm only ten years you junior but feel like on thirty years your junior All right okay. That's very kind of you Graham. Hodges someone taking so much for spending time with me. Today it's been it's been such a pleasure. Well it's been a pleasure talking to you. Chilean thanks so much for having me and And particularly for all the work that your Your bleeding in Uganda with wells of life and getting clean water for people who really need it and God bless you for that. Thank you now. Do you have any problem with people getting in touch with your case in a chat to you chat with you about anything? Oh no not as long as the decent questions most nor answers stupid questions. Is it okay to put your email on on on on the show notes or Yesus just the right one? That's all which one is the right one. It's it's The g mail then. Nine forty g mail. Yes birthday g mail if okay. That's good okay right. I went also think our listeners tune into the next chapter which arly he should check us out at our website or next chapter dot life and until next recess charney hedges signing off by for now you've been listening to another example of the next chapter with Charley right here. In Orange. County is only community radio station. Oh Talk Radio.

Graham Charlie hedges Graham Hodges Uganda London United States Germany EILEEN Graham Haji Germany Raham UK Africa Charleston Pennsylvania engineer Mike Friend Pittsburgh Niro
#121 Marc Ottestad: Humility-A Most Important Trait for Leading Yourself and Others

OC Talk Radio

52:25 min | 2 years ago

#121 Marc Ottestad: Humility-A Most Important Trait for Leading Yourself and Others

"The standard thirty second radio commercial is about seventy five words but this one has twice as many words so that i can talk really fast not as fast as the formula one inspired electric italianate pro cards audubon indoor speedway and events that can go up to fifty miles per hour our which is more than twice as fast as the karcher father used to put her around in les speaking of italian. Your father is mario. Andretti skirts made been faster but only slightly these turn on a dime accelerating seconds and we'll satisfy your need for speed and even if you burnout you'll never burn up in our air-conditioned track. After the world famous lamont's course this is the fastest commercial in washington d._c. And the place that has the fastest cartoon ever driven autobahn indoor speedway and events located in dulles in manassas small <music> welcome everybody's time once again for the next chapter with charlie hedges as he explores turning the page on his life and yours. Hey charlie paul aw pleasure to be with you here again at o._c. Talk radio and i'd like to welcome all our listeners to the next chapter with charlie my guest today marc oughta stead d- is all about connection connection connecting people connecting ideas or patterns and connecting to god and and he provides strategies to accomplish those connections today mark and i plan to talk about what i think may be the most undervalued character trait of all great leaders and all people in general and that character trait is humility first of all <hes>. I would like everyone to consider that. Leadership is a character trait are that humility is a character trait which impacts impacts both leading yourself and leading others and as we talk you will see that i am becoming more and more convinced that humility he is a cornerstone for lean and living a most meaningful life and marcotte stead is a fellow advocate of humidity the humidity i i. I'm not an advocate of humidity. I don't know about you. We're in southern california for a reason and is a fellow advocate of humility can read my own writing and self and group leadership mark. Thank you so much for joining me on the <hes> on the next chapter with charlie. I'm looking forward to delivery delving into critical yet often discarded personal character trait read of living and leading a meaningful life. Well thanks charlie. It's so great to be here. I i love the invitation. I love next chapters and i think <hes> the idea of what's important and how do we become our best version of ourselves. I think humility is right in the middle of that and i appreciate the invitation and look forward to our conversation and you were on the show one other time to write i was that was good now. You know <hes> <hes> a. I'm sorry for my memory of what was what we were talking about coaching worked. We i think we were talking about persistence at that time. Re perseverance perseverance okay perseverance and as you do in your coaching and marked by the way everyone is <hes> is an excellent executive coach and we will have all of his contact information in in the show notes and we won't mention on air <hes> for the remainder of the show mark you know i'd like to one discover how you define humility ability and then to discuss how we can apply humility as well to the <hes> maneuvering various around the roadblocks the keep us from humility and you mentioned some great roadblocks that i think are are very helpful to understand so first of all mark <hes> let i i'd like to ask you a very general question and and it may be too big so so you can break rickie down as as much as you want and that is how do you define humility and what does it have to do with leadership charlie early you know i think humility is outward expression of the inner self and it happens in relationships asian ships with other people. I think that <hes> it's this sense of human oneness that we all <hes> are on on this journey and <hes> humble positioning allows us to really connect with one another so that's <hes> that's how i see humility i was i was talking to my wife today. Is i knew we were gonna talk. We had this conversation about well. How many people do so you know in your life that you would tag as humble so interesting because it was not a long list we we we were. We were out for a walk really yeah. I was thinking. Isn't that interesting that <hes> it's not easy for me to say here's a long list. I i certainly had a quality list of people but it wasn't a long list. That's for sure <hes> what would be some of the the traits by which we might identify somebody as <hes> as a humble person well. I think there's this <hes> this openness to listening to other people that there's this invitation in to allow people to be heard <hes>. I think there's there's a a desire to empower other people to help them on their journey. I think there's <hes> there's a sense of empathy <hes> yes. I like that not sympathy right. That's that's the other side. Which kind of has this pride or attached to it. Which is so that's too bad. That's happening to you. <hes> but empathy is kind of that feeling of well but they're for the grace of god. Go i can see that that is tough and attempt to walk in your shoes and you you can never do that but but at least you can attempt to do that to feel as the other person his feeling you know <hes>. I'll come back to the second half of that question. Such as i was preparing for this podcast an idea occurred to me and you said it right in the beginning. It's a it's an outward reflection of an inner state of being and i i was thinking that many people that are not humble people that are authoritarians a specially in leadership. <hes> you know sort of have a have a <hes> a a psychological issue issue that they have to deal with and that is low self esteem and i think i think it's it's not uncommon to find people with a sense of low self self-worth low self value low self esteem. Try to <hes> <hes> fix that or accommodate the date that with authority and power and control and and it really doesn't work because people don't like it so it really gets awesome further into a whole but that is the driver that does that resonate with you at all yeah it it certainly does i mean i think <hes> these are coping mechanisms and and kind of codependent insane things that we do and we hope to get some place and we find ourselves digging gain a deeper hole rather than <hes> finding a way out of habit or a way that really is hurting us rather than helping us as you were saying that i was thinking it it's kind of attached to that idea of <hes> shu humility miltie posers. You know were they. We've heard it before. Gosh i am so humble. It's one of my best traits <hes> and we laugh about that but there is this oh disconnected nece that people would try to easily <hes> identify as humble and yet they really have no idea what they're talking about and it goes back to what we're talking about before where they don't listen to other other people they aren't empathic they aren't open and and the and the jump that i make a lot of my work is the challenge how this all manifest itself when we come from a capitalistic society which keeps saying <hes> be self reliant be self sufficient be in and we keep building up this <hes> thinking around us when really the call is to dependence and interdependence and and how do i do that so in leadership. How do i be bold and assertive and make the right decision asia and be humble and i think <hes> those those wonderful tension points that god gives us to say oh. Maybe better come to me and discuss discussed that thing because we've got some work to do here. Yeah yeah you know y- you made a great a great quote in one one of your writings and i'm quoting now code and is humility is about thinking of the self less us but not thinking less of the self now. Let me repeat that because at that could be confusing and all at at at a word humility is about thinking of the self less often but not thinking thinking less of a self. I just love that quote you and and and <hes> that's what we were talking about is in in humility. It's not it's not thinking so much about the cell though world doesn't revolve around me and <hes> and then especially in leadership. I've got a dozen to a few hundred to a few thousand people that depend on me how i talk to me about that quote because it's a it's a brilliant quote. Yeah i think the person that's probably most recognized for the quotas c._s. Lewis less than so he certainly had profound christian theologian <hes> i've seen rick warren <hes> given credit credit for it as well and you see on on one side of the other is that you know let you lead with thinking about yourself less or do you lead with the other side so so i think the idea of <hes> really a good discipline because lots of my work is well. How do i really grohl. Oh my humility muscle. How do i increase my capacity to be humble and so certainly starts with you know part of what you're talking about there which is well. How much are you thinking about yourself and is there a way to capture that moment and really think about something else thinking about someone else about someone else that needs so that sad kind of attached to gratitude again anytime. We're feeling bad for our circumstances. We're probably you know thinking a whole lot about ourselves ourselves <hes> and the minute we turn and look at someone else <hes> all of a sudden we can start being available <hes> for your gratitude thankfulness so so i think you i think you kind of talked about it really well. I think when you add that thinking about ourselves less that discipline is <hes> something you can really work on with that understanding of your identity who you who are your unique. Your created in an amazing way doesn't mean you think less of yourself than the skills that were given given the competencies were given <hes> all of those pieces we wanna continue to grow and and increase in and versions <hes> that we possibly can you know <hes> this is. This really means a lot to me because i dealt within in therapy you know i've been therapy half my life. I think but <hes> that'll go as frequently as i used to. But nevertheless i i still have a monthly athlete visit with a therapist and just to kind of check in and and i had a therapist who is with me for probably two decades aids and he used to use words like you're brilliant. You're this. You're that and i just there's no way mark i could accept those and and i said you know they're they're just far over what i really am and yet i had this list of accomplishments that that were really quite high and released list of great relationships and there was you know it. It came that you know i'm not gonna say i'm brilliant but it came to where i came to a much greater appreciation of myself without being prideful. You know it's not like oh. I'm proud out of this. You know i i i feel like it's a gift from god and i am grateful and now and now not only am i grateful mark. I'm responsible. If i have that kind of influence over other people are not over other people but <hes> an influence with the people and that i am looked at as a leader or someone they want to follow or somebody they want to emulate is <hes> emulate late i need. I'm accountable to that. I need. I need to take responsibility for that and i can't. I can't act like <hes> <hes> a high-powered jerk or it. Just it discounts everything so i guess i wanna make the point that you can really be an i'm. I'm gonna use the word proud you can really be proud of yourself and the things that you've done and the work you've done with other people in the way. You've helped helped other people in the way you've contributed to society. You can be proud of that and still be humble. You don't hear that set a lot yeah. I think that's really important point because certainly in the christian community. If you use that adjective you have to stand in fear because god god will humble the proud <hes> but it's really a it's really a matter of the heart again the the idea of <hes> manipulation reputation or you know controlling others and and doing it and then the story is kind of way various kind of way you know so i think you're you're absolutely right and learning to accept who you are and grow into that. That's just <hes> gifts though i think finally hearing that enough for you and you being able to go okay hey i'm i'm accepting that and i love your next step which is being responsible for it. You know that you that you have a responsibility to make <hes> the world a better place from whom you are so step into that and and continue to you know irresponsible it it reminds me of remotely related quote that i once read from brad pitt and that he the and since he's a kid he's always been the best looking kid on the block and his mother told him with this gift comes comes responsibility and that was that was something he learned very very early and <hes> spiderman there rigo oh that did they say that in spiderman okay man moment yeah spiderman spiderman moment yeah but it is i saw so it does not mean thinking oh woe is meal lowly me you know i'm the i'm the dirt of the earth that i i can be a highly productive and highly highly valued member of society but recognizing i i think the caveats on there are <hes> gratitude and accountability that i you know we both are <hes> <hes> have a higher power named god in our life and believed that god endowed us with these gifts and so there is gratitude for that and i am accountable. Well not only do people but i'm accountable to god to honor those gifts that i've been given and and to do it in a way that contributes to the value a._m. Society yeah. I think the advantage of the faith journey certainly this is one of those moments where it's easy <hes> to get humbled before god i mean i look outside and they see beauty. I i you know step into a hospital or one of my friends is a a doctor doing amazing things. He's all the fingerprint of god so it's very easy for me to recognize <hes> he has got and i am not okay. Hey i'm humble so <hes>. How do you take that kind of positioning with other people the people that you lied you know. Let's let's talk about that lead part. What in your mind i if you can get <hes> sort sort of practical on me and and and tactical what does humility look like for a leader how ah how is the leader successfully humble and still maintain the authority that a leader has a responsibility ability that a more responsibility than authority but the responsibility leader as and demonstrate humility. How does that work well. I think it <hes> starts with the <hes> unbelievable challenging ability to listen. I think we're so busy solving things that we miss connecting with people because we don't listen to them so certainly in leadership admitting mistakes crediting others i think those are two good starting points and usually around the whole kind of universe this is listening so so when i work with leaders and <hes> there's indications of cultural challenges usually really it moves right into this space of <hes> listening or the lack of and there's this moment one of my favorite books is the good listener in her by james sullivan and we used it you know part of my training has been with an organization called stephen's ministry and stephen's ministry are- they've trained half a million caregivers and you do a male on male. Let's meet every week for an hour and just allow that other person to throw up on you and so this idea. Which is you know i am. The caregiver and god is the cure giver which is just so amazing to watch because what i do is just listen and allow them to be heard so when you you take that and you move that into the marketplace place and you want people to trust you enough to come out and share magnificent creative ideas or problems that are right in front of the organization if the if the leader is not listening the probability of getting those is diminished greatly so yeah i think we're we're in that space of <hes> comfort because when you talk to leaders they often they have no understanding of what listening even is or how to react when they said i had two instances this week which was great and we're working through a a role play with different people and in the in the role play i said well how would you <hes> move that conversation forward and in both instances these two the two leader said why did you do that and it's like okay time out. You know one of those tips and coaching. That's very easy. Tangible takeaway is that in your interactions with other people don't use the word why why is a hugely judgmental question that just stops conversations for moving forward forward use the word in the how and the win <hes> as a way to bring people into the conversation and you may get to the y. later on but if you want the building blocks of somebody being known in heard if you lead with a why you'll have yourself <hes> a very short conversation because people have to defend themselves especially then wise is why to a person. Why did you do that that that's going to. That's that's moving immediately media into a back door into blame yup blaming judgement so those are those are some of the pieces so i think yeah yeah yeah i. I think you know it is just so important. I i was just listening to a <hes> youtube talk with jordan peterson ben shapiro and and they were talking <hes> a bit in their in their thing about about spirituality and leadership and they talked about genesis one and that <hes> men and women are created in the image of god <hes> not not just man. It's men and women are created in the image of god and that means all people are created in the image of god and therefore all people are due respect and honor and appreciation and you know if they if they are created in the image of god and that that does go back to that good listener book which is while there are many techniques and there the main message is this is the greatest just way for you to show someone else that you've value them and that's that's important. That value is important. They have value. They are valuable yeah. Absolutely you know i have. I have stated on the podcast in the past some time some time ago. I made one of my goals goals in life. Just just simple is in conversation and dealing with people is to help people feel better about themselves because i don't think they live in a world where other people are making them feel better about themselves. So i try to find ways to compliment them. Listen to them. You know make them the the subject of the conversation and you know you can just see their eyes light up that somebody actually gives a rip about them so good another one of those techniques which really creates kind of a distance for most people is in it's in and certainly a coaching technique but it certainly leadership technique. Is that in the response to what any person says to you your response lots should be tell me more yeah perfect yes what else and that you should run that until they they say no. I think that's it so if you if you allow this dance of here's the first enter into the conversation and i say well charlie. Tell me more charlie's mind goes really it's not going to be a ping pong match i can i can yeah extent and charlie says some more and then he stops and i say what else and charlie sick of this is just weird i i'm i'm really get a chance to expand on my thinking and in there is this internal residents of i'm being listened to ooh and valued as a human being. That's a yeah it's a we all need to do more listening. I mean we're certainly back to my you know i'm i'm. I'm i'm also into listening mark so you're talking to. You're talking to the choir because <hes> we are more interested in finding in the conversation in the conversation finding something to say in response rather than to listening to what the other people have to say <hes> <hes> i it's fun watching conversations more you you know in my <hes> quarter of a century of of coaching gene executive business leaders. I've always found. I really have that. The best leaders exercise fund some form of community of humility and that they they are willing to listen to other people are willing to to <hes> give give praise to other people and reward other people real and and they look at the company as as a collection of all of these people not just a a means means by which they can get there will done <hes> they <hes> they know the importance of an idea that you write somewhat about called servants wentz leadership <hes> what would you say is the most prevalent mindset of the humble servant leader in other words. How does humility and servant leadership impact the way. These people view the world. I guess the word that comes to mind for for me is mindset and i think <hes> one of my one of my greatest moments in working. I was working with venture capital guy and his comment was mark. You know i've i've sat in front of thousands of business. <music> owners an idea people and it breaks two ways it breaks either. I discovered it or i discovered what god had already created and that that humble positioning of <hes>. I'm seeking defined. What is there and so i guess <hes> servant leadership would be a sikh. I understand would be a <hes> consider. Others better than yourself would be a <hes> yeah covey's seven habits yeah <hes> i want to <hes> <hes> i went to go on. We're going to take a brief break and then i wanna come back and i want to take a look at the road blocks or or are perhaps <hes> <hes> inclinations of what might look like what would humble would prideful leadership might look like and and we'll we'll talk about the other side and i think that will really help give <hes> focus focus on what humble leadership looks like but before that let's take a quick break uh uh-huh charlie hedges and you're listening to the next chapter with charlie and i'm here with marcus dad and we are talking about what i'm calling the most important trait for leading yourself and others which is humility and <hes> i think we've made a couple of really interesting observations about humility and we're going to go into it even in more detail and and that <hes> <hes> communication an and listening and value in the other person is is extremely critical and we've also talked about that. If few few are not you know i'll go ahead. Go ahead and and and take the chance to say if you were not proud of yourself in a humble way if you're not proud of your of your actions then you have a very difficult time being humble and not and not authoritative and not controlling i i don't mean proud in the negative sense of pride i but that you are you're contented with what you are doing in life and that is that's opposite of what many people are hearing <hes> i you now. I want to go on before we go to the leader and and and individual you know i just wanna talk about our society that we do not seem to honor humility as a society at all i mean he he boy. You know you look at the you. Look you look at the sports fields and and you see all the trash talking and you know you score a run or you make a basket or you. You know you catch a football and you know there's all these antics about how great i am bringing my number out my name out. You know pulling it off my chest like look how great i am. You know we live in a society where our kids are inundated with with these type of images and they think that's what they need to they need to be. I see it all the time. You're gonna my son's professional baseball the ballplayer and i see it all the time at the stadium when they do these fans shots and they show a fan and rather than just kind of waving the fan is up <unk> pulling out their name and showing their name and high fiving themselves and doing muscles and all that trying to make themselves look great and it's just it's it's sickening to me. It's it's our culture and and you know i i'd i'd. I get myself into trouble if i talk about politics because because i'm a i'm a republic rat. You know i fit i- fit in between both but i think you know we find plenty of people in higher office that are as far from humble as you can get and <hes> that also that also impacts wchs our society at large. Do you have any thoughts on that. Made me think about <hes>. My wife is a second grade teacher and <hes> you know one of the questions that she would have before she retired was <hes>. What do you want to be when you grow up and <hes> she was regaling the evolution of <hes>. Oh i want to be an astronaut or i want to be a ball player <hes> to the last couple years of her time in that slot with these eight year olds was i want to be famous that everybody is wanting to be famous which is once again. I don't know if there's more no kidding that that is that that's so disheartening. It is so disheartening and of course you wanna say for what what would you do. What whoa you to get there. You know that that you know boy. We really getting off track but you know that's what's that's what leads to these shootings and those type type of things because they are. They are trying to get their name. This is the way they're going to you know they. They certainly have anger built up anger but is also. They know they're going to get a high publicity and they're going to become famous for doing this. Yeah i think you're because as as my mind is wandering as you were you know describing driving it. I think about sports and sports is a very leveling experience because everybody loses is it. There is a lot right and so what's nice about. Sports is <hes> man you have to you have to persevere to get through to to get to those moments and you certainly want to treasure the moments because <hes> hey <hes> i took a bunch of beatings on the way to get here but it makes me think about <hes> again that idea of we're so <hes> individual centric or group centric versus versus the whole centric again because if we look at it from the whole we're all screwed up and dysfunctional right <hes> you know and so if we start art the premise of we're all screwed up in his functional versus <hes> we're all great. <hes> you know i think the i think the starting the point is just wrong and somehow we've gotten the message and i certainly see it again with my wife or my tennis coach. You know this idea of of <hes>. I don't want to fail. I want to be an expert now. There's so there's this microwave <hes> kind of mentality and self-centeredness l. centeredness core to what you're talking about. You know and you you. You're talking about sports. He had the you know the sport. <hes> obviously know most about is baseball in it is a <hes>. It's an incredibly humbling sport. I mean it moves from humbling to humiliating <music> at times you know when you're when you're the greatest success on the field. If you fail seven out of ten times you know and and you just is and my son's agent <hes> ver- well known agent scott boras says don't ever think you can beat the game of baseball game of baseball is going to beat you every time i am just be ready for that and and i honestly know for from my relationships with my sons team that the vast vast majority of the players are humble and have been humiliated and they they are not you you know there's always a handful of very pride oriented players but there are small handful. They're the minority there the gross minority there not the vast minority already. I know in baseball. I don't own about other sports. You know i don't know about basketball and football you know the other american sports but in baseball it is that way and i'm and i'm i'm proud to say that the baseball players i know my son's friends are really humble. Great young men that you know i would i would be <hes>. I'm proud proud to call friend. <hes> go ahead. Go ahead. You were going to say something well. I was just thinking you know when you move into because we're so you know political these days and and in that context this idea of you know we're always looking for what's wrong instead of looking for how far we've come so again <hes> i this mindset of gosh. I don't know you could take you know income inequality or women's rights or you know lots of the hot topics of the day and it's sad that we don't start with. It's so good that we made some progress and there's work to do so. There's this zero some kind of thinking that permeates permeates. Oh that's brilliant. You know that is so rather than we're not there rather than what. We don't have look how far we've come. We still have a long way to go or maybe not a long way to go but look how far we've come and that and that is true. My wife are very my wife and i very involved in the women's movement and from the seventy s it is it is come so far is still has far to go. There's still ways to go. That's for sure i'm not. I'm not denying that but it has come so far. Nobody ever recognizes that that the changes hat right and and not act as if you know we're prideful thinking. There's not work to do so yes. I don't know you know i think <hes> <hes> the culture wars are interesting and i think again to me. It goes back to that that moment of independence versus dependence. I think that the idea that i have to do it on my own. I i can't rely on anybody else and that those building blocks of that leads to a very isolated <hes> cold <hes> world and so somehow what's nice about humility again. My my wife is hugely impacted by the new isn't melinda gates bill gates wife book and <hes> and her <hes> work in poverty right <hes> and so you know she's a systematic <hes> <hes> usually wealthy person that can't fix it all today and has to do the best she can do realizing allies in that even with untold wealth we can't fix it and so we keep making steps and so it's very oh great resource on mindset <hes>. It's back to what you said before it's about. We have responsibility ability. We have to step into it and there is this reality <hes> i don't know steve jobs pretty soon as a rail of person in <hes> cancer and can't control it so you can make a wonderful ipod. Ice is somehow i think a majority but the end of the day you know we're <hes> i'm on the older side so i watch lots of my friends dying and lots of my yeah. Don't i don't want to get on the older side to annette is <hes> that's the downside of the oldest side people people die. You know i like the way you said you had another quote that i thought was really good and you put <hes> a leader with a humble approach lists people spirits. It's self esteem and confidence man. If we could just do that you know if a leader could just do that lift people's spirits. Their self esteem steamed their confidence. They're going to be high producers. They're gonna love working for you. They're gonna love working in this organization and they're gonna love you as a friend if you do that as a friend if you lift spirits self-esteem and confidence you know you're going to be more and more people are going to want to be friends with with you. Exactly i think so interesting that i you know work with lots of people that are trying to figure out their purpose right and and that may be gosh up i making the right widget bridget or and and it's all great you know trying to think through it and normally the why is just what you were describing. It's the people so it's the customers defenders. It's the employees. It's the friends it's the family. So how do you influence wherever god replace you to help. People have a better life and you get to do it while you make widgets or while you <hes> produce a service so so interesting that often people are so close and so far away that they just don't see it yet and yet when that when they when that switch goes on and all of a sudden they're going. Oh that's why i'm here because i happen to be an expert at this software platform and and i can help many people <hes> develop an expertise. I can build a culture and i can allow people and this is really the the heartbeat for me. Which is this idea that if we <hes> are in the marketplace and we're doing what we're doing and we're doing the best we can. We will be with people when everything falls apart because what's going to happen is they're going to be relational challenges. There's going to be financial challenges. There's going to be health challenges and because we're with people when that happens we can walk with them because we happen to have been making widgets for the last twenty years and so. That's that moment that allows us to say. I can't fix it for you but i can humbly walk with you as you. You know walk through this difficult season. Listen so that is the the great mystery of god who would say <hes> okay christianity and capitalism. Let's go see that's gonna be and it's it's it is messy and yet it's so wonderful when leaders catch the vision that that's what they get to do every every day they get forty fifty hours from people and they walk with them as a you know live with the way we're child or deal with a parent. That's got dementia. I mean we all we all long list of whatever's going on so yeah. That's that's perfect. There are <hes> <hes> we're coming close to wrapping up the show and i and and and i have too many questions to ask you but <hes> <hes> i think these are very important because they're sort of checklists on checking your <music> own humility and if you have these characteristics it's a sign that you may not be as humble as you would like to be and and you listed for signs of a leader that may demonstrate a lack of community or community laughed a lack of humility humility and and i find these to be roadblocks and and i'll listen and and we can we can briefly chat about them. I are you too focused on your own. Image is life only about you secondly. Do you search for sources of blame. When things things go wrong. I see this with the non humble person. The first thing they wanna do is blame someone else it can't possibly acidly be their own fault third. You frequently lose your temper and forth as you have mentioned. Are you a focused listener so let's just briefly briefly. Go through these things are are you focused on your own image. What are your thoughts on that yeah. I think <hes> i think the mirror is a treacherous treacherous <hes> betrayer and i think as long as you're <hes> trying to build that thing up <hes> it's not a good deal so oh anytime you got that finger out there. There's three or four pointing back at you. <hes> yeah this goes back to what you're talking about unless you're unless you're images <hes> about humility in about you know your image is built up by the knowledge that you have built up other people then but if it's not that if it's all about lifting you and you getting awards and you're getting raises and you getting promotions then then y- you know that is that is assigned of egoism and certainly not not a sign of humility not a second one the second one is a big one for me because i have. I have seen this so much. Do you search for sources of blame when things go wrong and we talked about it briefly earlier <hes> but i but i find this so much in leaders lack a genuine humility is oh man. Let's just go to who we see. Who can we blame for this and rather than searching root causes and saying what can we learn from this this this. This problem is an opportunity none of that. Is you know an opportunity to improve. None of those things are considered lettered by the <hes> egotistical or prideful person. They wanna blame somebody. Just kesse. Blaming didn't think it's all over you know they. They've cured it when they fix that person. Fire that person or or you know some out. Put him on a p. I p i oh i think i agree wholeheartedly yeah. It's a it's a big one. How does how does losing your temper demonstrate a lack of humility. I think you know anger is a secondary emotion so it's <hes> not the primary emotions so <hes> coming to <hes> a realization as to what is causing me to feel like this and obviously anger anger would be the the overt action there so i think it's it's a great <hes> way of being able to see for a leader what other people are seeing often. Leaders can't see it until you videotape. I'm gonna go oh my gosh <hes> but often anger is one. That's easier to access excess because <hes> it's easy to say. How many times did you lose your temper in the last week or even keep a log on it and be able to start finding game. You know where that's at and usually it's about control. <hes> people most often <hes> anger are is presented when someone who really wants to control things can't control the outcome and <hes> and usually that's yeah. We've been talking about yeah that <hes> it's funny that you put this reminds me of a blog that i just i you just wrote this. <hes> this past week was against the rise of rudeness and that's and and rudeness comes comes from also a lack of humility and it's and it's just my way is the right way and i'm going to say rudely not gonna try to be kind. I'm not going to try to work with the people <hes>. I think that losing the temper and the rudeness or are very are very close and now the last one are you focused listener. I think we've covered for that plenty and and but i just don't think we can emphasize it enough because it is so so important to listen. Tell me more <hes> and i like to tell me more rather than asking questions because many times people say good listening. You're asking questions but often when we ask questions we take them off track for the problem. Really is we take them on our track iraq exactly rather than saying. Tell me more we're asking for them to be on their track and final final piece in there that i'd certainly want to encourage everyone towards is the idea of self awareness with regards to humility and and we need to invite people in <hes> the reality is god can super naturally invade our lives and change us but i think is eh plan is. He uses other people to do that. It happens in relationship a relational god who encourages us towards relationship so you have to to be courageous enough to say. I've been thinking about humility charlie <hes>. It's something that i would really like to work on. Could you help me really assess how you see me. In the light of that character trait <hes> you might do a scale of one to ten or you might say but i think we need to bring the stuff out into the light and and normalize the conversation and then work towards be more humble ourselves and hopefully creating a more humble world. That's well stated. Bring it out to the light and make it part of the conversation. That's really great well mark. I wanna tell you <hes> it's been is spent such a pleasure talking to you and and i wanna thank you for spending time today with me on the next chapter with charlie so and i'm sure we'll have you once again. Pleasure asia was all mine okay and i'd like to encourage our listeners to check out our website at the next chapter dot life and until next this is charlie hedges signing off by for now uh the standard thirty second radio commercial is about seventy five but this one has twice as many words so that i can talk really fast not as fast as the formula win inspired electric italianate <unk> audubon indoor speedway and events that can go up to fifty miles per hour which is more than twice as fast as the karcher father used to put her around in les speaking of italian. Your father is mario andretti his cartoon. Have you been faster but only slightly these cards. Turn on a dime accelerate in seconds and we'll satisfy your need for speed and even if you burn out you will never burn up in our air-conditioned track designed to the world famous lamont's course this is the fastest commercial in washington d._c. Even the place that has the fastest carthew of ever driven autobahn indoor speedway and events located in dulles in manassas mall the standard thirty second radio commercial is about seventy five words but this one has twice as many words so that i can talk really fast not as fast the formula one inspired electric italianate pro carts autobahn indoor speedway in events that can go to fifty miles per hour which is more than twice as fast as the karcher father used to put her around in les speaking of italian. Your father is mario andretti. His carts may have been faster but only slightly these turn on a dime accelerated seconds. We'll satisfy your need for speed and even if you burn out you'll never burn up in our air-conditioned designed. After the world famous lamont's course this is the fastest commercial in washington internec- around the place that has the fastest cartoon ever driven autobahn indoor speedway in events located in dulles in manassas mall.

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#111 Terry Hershey: Why Cant We Talk About Religion and Politics?

OC Talk Radio

52:48 min | 2 years ago

#111 Terry Hershey: Why Cant We Talk About Religion and Politics?

"By Our T. with caffeine from green tea leaves it's delicious energizing and comes in three amazing neighbors with zero sugar and four calories. It fits your life with its comback size in portability. It goes where you go to the campsite hiking trail the beach with outweighing you down by fourteen caffeine from green tea leaves release your natural side from the makers of five our energy for more information visit by our energy dot com. Try Five Our T. Today. Look for five our T. at your local circle K. store. You're welcome everybody's time once again for the next chapter with Charlie hedges as he explores turning the page John His life and yours. Hey Charlie Hey Paul. It's good to be here with you today. And our good friend Terry Hershey. I'm looking forward to this show because we are planning to discuss the two most taboo subjects in the United States religion and politics well. I'm not so sure we'll actually talk about religion and politics but more about why we can't talk about them. What is the the reason we can't talk about religion and politics <hes> Terry her she is with me today? Interiors quite passionate about both politics and religion yet. He is fully aware of the deep seated issues of rumble topics as a public speaker reface Z. issue every time he stands up on a podium when he speaks to a religious audience he has to be careful to speak their religious language. Whatever denomination or are sect he is talking to our risk being sacrificed iced on the altar of heresy when he speaks to the public at large he must be ever so cautious not to offend someone that does not agree with the politics he is so deeply passionate about and he is passionate about about both religion and politics <hes> now what's what's going to make this podcast really interesting as Terry and I had a discussion on this subject yesterday and said boy that'd be a good topic for <hes> for podcast cast? Let's do it and then <hes> Terry Terry forgot that we're going to do a podcast and I forgot what the subject was and so so he's been working in his garden all day and in your garden looks beautiful right Terry guns fantastic yeah I need to the garden is the bomb need <hes> from both religion and politics continue on with that just for a moment that one of the asset well when when we get to whatever whatever jokes are chain when our chain is jerked that there's something about ourselves that's not tethered and so we're susceptible <hes> <hes> and but when we're grounded I mean think about just a simple thing think about times when you snap it somebody angrily and you're not really angry at them but there are other times they've done the same thing and you haven't snapped. What's the difference the differences there's times when you're you've slapped her out you eight and well you be arrested? You have no worry and and and your behavior shows it you you don't you don't let us baseball language which you will but you will resonate with. You don't have to swing it every pitch yeah do if you do swing it every pitch you're not right in the head is is that true correct Kris so the garden helps me be writing ahead have suit helps you look for that fastball down the middle. Well it helps me helps me breathe. It helps me relax lacks that helps me be centered. <hes> it helps me be comfortable in my own skin and so yeah I can elected. I like that that that that phrase he uses it helps huby censored and that's <hes> your censoring yourself said Senator Oh centered they said censored. Does it help you be censored. Well I mean I don't. I don't need their certain things that I would say when when I'm not my bestself when I'm tired for example <hes> when when I traveled to too many events in too short period of time had too many trips and haven't slept well I I'm I'm gonNA react in a way that's probably not going to be helpful. conversationally and I'm GonNa say some things I'd probably will regret to make sense yes and and because our filters we we have no filters <hes> no no safeguards and I and I think he you know it's appropriate. It's appropriate censorship. Safeguard is a good word. Boundary is a good word there about just what kind of boundaries we have <hes> allies of the garden <hes> my my first question is tell me tell me where you're grounded and because we live in a world that is so <hes> the speed is mock twelve and and <hes> and information is is like a from a fire can <hes> water can and and we're bombarded all the time. It's no wonder we're not at home in our skin so basically were swatting and I can see why we're everybody's so pissed you know grounded is at granite is a good word because I know many people and I'm just this is observing so I you know I certainly don't know the core of their soul but they seem to be grounded in either there <hes> in there either in their politics or the religion those seem to be you know not maybe not the totality of their grounding but but a large portion of who they consider as how how they consider themselves and how they consider <hes> social responsibility in social <hes> inside how that impacts them personally and so the grounding in religion and politics is a very strong I it's a very strong measure. Don't you think at one level I mean I'm I'm. I'm underneath underneath both of those in the sense of just there's an emotional spiritual wellbeing that comes from being in. I'm going back to where centered to be centered. <hes> I'm not I'm not blown off course easily when I'm centered you know I don't I don't snap. I don't bite <hes> you know. I hear that word a lot centered <hes> what what what do you what do you mean by that. Well thank you think of a boat. I mean it when wouldn't when you're center you can sail and can cruise. I mean you're not censored the storms and and you're going from side to side and you're not balanced at all and you're thrown off balance and you have nothing to balance you and you have nothing to balance you and so basically you're grabbing shouting and and you know that's what not centered is well would it religious people say that they are centered in their. You're in their particular belief system yeah but my argument would be that their belief system doesn't center them. It's <hes> being being okay with that belief system because I I for start I mean for starters. There's with religion. There's a belief system. So you start with the creed or I believe in. I believe this. I believe that <hes> you know just are the basic I believe in God okay what kind I believe in this guy okay. I don't okay those are belief systems but as you as you know very well I was raised in a church where I wasn't censored in that belief even though I believed it because it was predicated on some sort of what if I screwed up you know predicated on Richmond Yeah Yeah I'm is worried. I'm always looking over my shoulder so I would. I wasn't really sent you in that however yet as a just technically yes that's true you can be censored in that but the century is that your <hes> your your your faith in your religious belief system makes you a better person it brings out the best of who you are. That's when you're centered and you're comfortable there <hes> and and and yes so that ah yeah how in how frequently you know since we'll just we'll get onto the politics side of in a bid but how frequently on the religious side are people centered to the point that it gives them freedom and power to be at peace and it comfort and and non-judgmental and non adversarial against everybody else but that I'm I'm comfortable in what my what I believe and what I consider to be a truth to the degree that that I saw something a truth but I have no ness I feel no no impulse or <hes> or or responsibility to make somebody else think or feel the same way I do about this particular religion he yes <hes> like adversarial. That's a good more or the convert <hes> right but the I mean yeah to to feel 'cause the belief is not is not just the able to assent to. It's not a cerebral thing. It's not cognitive tip thing. That's what we've done in the restaurant world as we've made believe cognitive thing you know that you have to understand it or comprehended and therefore say it and the irony of that is take about this way Charlie. If if here's how you know the difference if if you and I know you well enough to know what some of your cognitive beliefs are and you live into some of them well and some of them. You're not sure about 'cause you don't know quite how to attach them into your daily. Life Sang with me same with all of us however if you're I know the ones if you're comfortable in your own skin and and you're talking with me and I'm talking about a God that's different from God you believe in in your if you're comfortable in your own skin you just you say that's interesting exactly exactly yeah. Tell me nor it in other words. It doesn't trouble year. Belief is my point it it. It doesn't rock your boat. You're you're still real content and comfortable and grounded in the fact that the God you believe that makes you safe so you're good and who knows you might learn exactly so what is so so what is it about about religion that that generally or often elicits quite the opposite behavior and ir and anger and and you know before you know people yelling and and screaming and calling name because one of the primary <hes> one of the primaries things that <hes> God God is taught on and predicated on and many religious his teachings are predicated on who you are not okay and so you and so essentially you are looking over your shoulder and you're living with anxiety and you're busting your but to be okay so is <hes> well. How does come in to that? Let us at supporters. You're afraid I'm afraid I'm not enough. I'm afraid I'm going to be wrong. I'm afraid this yours is different and therefore what I'm afraid that I don't have the capacity to to be worthy. <hes> the <hes> of whatever it is. I've been given all those things were given to me talk to me every single one of them. Yeah I just <hes> I just read a book Terry. <hes> that's by a <hes> you know pretty. Any famous and highly regarded Christian author who promoted some of the beliefs that are prominent in eastern Christianity and he's promoting them to a Western audience and I have no doubt that he's going to be deemed a heretic and already been he already has has he. I've tried to look it up and I didn't how yeah the I mean. The Vatican has but there there are certain bishops who won't <music> allow any Catholic churches in their diocese to invite him in Oh really in in Catholicism and can you imagine what it's like in protestantism it's what he's but we know what he's teaching and and he but but he's teaching and he has a lot of Protestants that come to his his a retreat center and all he has you know he may have as many Protestants Catholics that go his seminars and end and his to your point to your point though to your point is he Richard Reuter talking about he he offers a it's an invitation invitations powerful thing that <hes> you <hes> the the faith grounds you and so there are many many people who have been kicked out of or buffeted or had experiences with their religious faith. That's unnerved them and many people who are not unnecessary even religious rory who are <hes> <hes> come alive listening to that because it is about being centered and grounded in anybody that in anybody that challenges as you know <hes> Richard is challenging not just some tangential beliefs in the in western theology. He's challenging me. You know perhaps chiefs the single most core issue out there and so so it's just I'm interested to see what's going to be the result of that. Yeah Yeah I mean I it's just saves the church where I mean. I just finished by show. Dan is a French yeah and he quotes tiered quite a bit yeah. CAYARD was a was a was a priest and but he was also a scientist paleontologist and he and so he married the two worlds oh he did yeah yeah. He <hes> the his amazement well. What what did he find an in in China I can't I read his biography and I can't he find he found it was like the missing link? I think that they shifted because they the Catholics didn't like what he was saying so they thought they chip him up to China and they shipped him off to an archaeological dig where he found it was something some some kind of man I can't recall naming a man but it was like the missing link and it was just so ironic that they shipped him off to get rid of them and they put him right in the middle of it and I don't know I didn't I didn't I didn't know that party story. Oh yeah it's really strong. You know it said of it's set of of T._R.. Day Shannon that he had to photographs or two pictures not photographs they would be to paintings of <hes> in his in his in his room and that was all those on the wall one was John The baptist. The other was Charles Darwin good so he really you know they were always tried to ship up him off somewhere else because you know he had his firm beliefs in which you know he's now considered by. Many you know one of the most you know you go highly regarded contemporary templates gives out there yeah yeah yeah so so as we were talking I think yesterday the word fear really came up and and and in the religious in the religious realm I can I can understand that because that's a that's a core belief and that's a belief of current life after live you know it has a a moral code all around it and and and there's this there's this unfortunately so much of religion is based around exclusivity that that our essentially tribal yeah or or or or even worse worse you know because if you if you don't believe as we believe you know and this Heaven Hell issue is such a big issue in. Are you going to have dial. I know I'm thinking about is not even on. It's not even we don't even get back to that point of of <hes>. Let's say you're having dinner and you're with a group of people and someone says <hes> I feel bad about selling so 'cause they're not a Christian. They're going to hell and then someone just says Oh that's interesting teaching because I don't believe in hell now that might that might lead to an interesting conversation or might stop the conversation dead and its tracks right more likely the ladder and I don't think it's going to stop the conversation right tracks. It's just GonNa take it a whole different direction and that's why we say you can't talk about religion and politics because it's just going to so let's I on an interesting note just because I tried Haida you we had a conversation about this because I returned this last weekend I travel and speak and I was doing an event in Virginia with a group of men for a measure tree and they asked me to do the topic of Christianity in politics which I really interesting and so yeah especially your politics with Christians said so. Let's revisit thanksgiving. Let's just sit silently for through this just eat yeah. Let's just see so. I taught it's interesting because <hes> <hes> <hes> I would. I'm Michigan boy. That's was born and raised right right. Yeah and Colon Michigan didn't go. I didn't go to U. OF M.. I would've if that has the algae but I didn't I would my my brother went to Michigan State but the point is this <hes>. I lived this out a little bit <hes> a year ago I was doing an event in Columbus Ohio and my friend has season tickets to the buckeyes and so we went to the shoe for football well Michigan People in Ohio state people they don't dislike is a hate yes. Yes I mean literally. It's a hatred yeah. It's it's one of the strongest August rivalries in in College Sports Yeah and so pick a rivalry and <hes> this is the interesting thing is that my the first knee-jerk is about anything about them is going to be negative. There's no it's it's automatic and and so there's something in the human spirit it's curious I mean this is what you're gay with religion. What is it what is it that makes us that tribal? What are we afraid of? What's going on and and that's about my question I think tell you terry what are we afraid of? My question and it's and it's like like take that take that wh when when when you look at the importance on the scale of life the rivalry between Ohio state and you them is is meaningless you know there is there's there's no point to it and yet and yet you know there can be fights in the parking lot and and absolutely and so and and what what are they afraid of Terry. Okay let me to answer that but I just pull something <music> added. I got a circle back here. Okay so these these guys I gathered with. Oh Yeah. I WanNa get on that okay. Let's go back to that but I just started. I started with this with them. That Jesus took his disciples up to the mountain gathering them he taught them saying blessed or the poor and spirit for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven blessed other meek. I did the whole thing right then Simon Peter said do we have to write this down. It's going to be on the test. is other words going to separate us from them. Yeah what are we afraid of. <hes> <hes> is there needs to be an us in them because we live we we live so much so much and you know and I hate to admit it but there is an us in them part of me. You know that I o of every every single one of US Charlie at every single one of us is it's it's ingrained and it's and it just something about who we are will be taken away. Okay now now. We're getting out at something about because you you use the word safe safe for safe safe safe for safety in other words that I can. I can be there okay. I'm <hes> <hes> I the tethered part. I'm tethered here and not just it's not about being grounded per se safety part. Is that <hes> nothing well. Nothing will come at me that will derail me so let me tell you story and then we'll keep talking about this so in the nineteen eighteen fifties. There was a tiger in Washington Washington D._C.. The nationals his name was Mo- Heaney. He was <hes>. What do you call their white? They don't have color but top I know oh by <hes> vinyl vinyl Siberian tiger so unbelievably wear majestic creature and he lived there and it was the old days in zoos just cages remember right. Why yeah what are the Tigers do in the lions doing those cages? They just pay circle. Yeah pay say walk in this was a twelve by twelve. He did a little twelve by twelve. That's what he does all day. So The Washington the National Zoo changed and so then they put them in they made it new like we have now just like San Diego's they have vast bits of land at the animals live in that are going to be more what would say what would imagine as free correct liberated right other words. I'm worried I know where this is going. I'm not gonNA like who wouldn't want that. Who wouldn't want that so more heaney this? It's just it's unbelievable. Legal story has a new half Acre half Acre of the kind of land that tigers would love <hes> from wherever tigers come from anyway that first date mohegan walks the entire half acre to check it out and he found a place in the back corner that was twelve by twelve and he walked back for the rest of his life so that's fascinating that the tape take away from that is is what would you say. There's something comforting about a thing that we can can that. We believe we can control there. I think you're getting onto something something that we can control and Saliba. We believe we can control. We believe we can control and something that that also there's there's a there's a portion of it. That is protective. Isn't it that by believing this I._M.. Protected against them yeah well for starters. I just walked my twelve twelve. I'm protected against uncertainty of having to explore the restaurant taker right <hes> <hes> <hes> you know <hes> I'm on I'm protected against <hes> the <hes> the discombobulation of new things that are happening to me in the day and other words. I equate what I what I believe. Elitist certainty. I equate that with WHO I am that's and so anything that questions that fear comes and I think that's I think that's a very important point is that our beliefs are not just beliefs but they are markers of our identity and when you question when you question that belief system then you're now questioning seen my identity who I who I am as a person and therein lies the fear that if that gets questioned than I'm no longer I I no longer have any replaced stand. I'm I'm sort of the standing move with my feet and mid air he yeah <hes> because it's a fascinating thing that that for for whatever reason we've decided we decided to wed our identity to that added to these cognitive cerebal so that attachments <hes> and when when they're taking away or when I mean even Moheli's case it was ellen taken away. It was changed but he reverted because he found safety in that twelve twelve correct. Let's <hes> I wanna I'm GonNa continue on and I I WANNA move <hes> from from we've been and focusing largely on religion and I wanna I wanNA focus on on the thing that's causing all the trouble in the United States right now and that's that's politics and why we can't talk about politics so let's take a quick break and we'll come back and we'll will tackle bad one uh-huh <music> Charlie hedges and you're listening to the next chapter with Charlie and I'm speaking with my good friend Terry Hershey on a topic topic that he and I talked about on the phone yesterday and said Gee this make a good podcast and we're talking about <hes> what are the what's at stake when you will when you talk about religion or politics and and we're not necessarily taking any position I'm religion and politics because <hes> oddly enough is close as we are we have we have similar yet dissimilar beliefs in both of those yet we're able to discuss them and and we've been talking about religion and you know and talking about <hes> well other things that that that form our identity identity and there's a fear that might believe if my belief is challenged then my identity is challenged and of my identity is challenged. I I sort of become less than would you say Terry become yeah you yeah you yeah once you start to say you know who am I in <hes> you know your sense of value. I agree with that yeah and why wouldn't you know why wouldn't it be better to be to say my my sense of value is curiosity and I'm curious why people believe what they believe and and and if it challenges my belief you know this is the way I I work. If a challenge is my belief but at the end of my research and evaluation and contemplation I find that their their their position makes more sense you know I guess I've been given the grace to be able to adopt another position and safe. You know if it makes more sense than than I I sweat like to say. Don't believe what I say today because I could change my mind tomorrow if somebody were to give me good evidence <hes> but why is it we live right now in a world <hes> we live live in a probably the most political world. Would you say the United States ever faced. I don't know it's faced in my lifetime. I can't say ever but the most political world it's faced in my lifetime and it is so ooh disheartening and it's so it's so separating that the the difference between you can't even say Republicans because he's not really a Republican. It's trump trump v the Democrats rats. No that's accurate yeah yeah but it you know I it. It causes vitriol. I mean you you know. Just you know you look at that. You look at the Congress people that go on air and you know senators go on air and and the news and and the news reporting whether you listen to Fox are <hes> M._S._n.. Or C._N._N.. E He you know you just get you get. There's nothing but anger that that that you get there and and condemnation what what what brings that all about why it's politics I I can understand how religion can bring up such such ir but why does politics do it. Why do we identify so much with political system while Tissue Charlie? I wish we had more time to talk about this but we've run out of time very good to be with. You know what's fascinating is that I don't i. I actually quested waste too. I mean the way the right people react in tribal <hes> environment <hes> politics wise is no different than the way I was raised as a religion religion where they the other people were going to hell and we we talked about them quite frankly and openly about them going to help <hes> was there any was Ernie sort of sense of pride in that that I'm in and you're out it's not it's not pride. It's it's it's very MO- Heaney like I've got my twelve pro butter. Yeah Okay can you don't okay and and <music> some. There's something about that because <hes> you're looking over your shoulder just to get guests to get somebody to wink out and say you did good because you you're not. You're not comfortable enough in your own skin to say this is who I am in this is is what I believe because you don't believe you're okay <hes> Zig about politics so I started the guys with this that politics gotta change words. Please please please politics when politics just the wooded Septa just simply means running to live together living here you you brought that point yesterday and that was fascinated with well you just pop politics is just living together for example. We all pull in there several of us with cars fonua parking lot. There's only X. number of spaces as exit cars that politics living together. It's a social system. Yes there were a way that socially you navigate the things you do so that there's this many people on the planet to do this. That's that's politics now. The irony is here's the irony we would get out of the car. We were figure that out politically in a way that probably it may to somebody probably would probably would would probably probably do okay so then the question is how is it that in certain areas of because I switched from politics which is living together which all of us believe it all of us. Do we have to to to policy or governance now. That is your question. Why is it that for in our history that your choices about governance makes enemies of other people that has not that's that's relatively tiddly knew that the way you choose to govern or the way you choose using my illustration to organize the parking lot is different and I say to you? It's not just about polity see it's not just about governance because the discussion about how we urban parking lot we're GONNA disagree on Republicans are going to say and I use this alteration. Republicans are say okay. We're GONNA part the cars. Let's not have a big government. Organizations is to tell who parks the cars you know right across are going to say you have to have a committee of five people to park the cough again have parking lot attendant yeah exactly so my players. We we get that we get that but this different now at a diff- does not just about but we can have that we can hash that out you can say to me this have one parking attendant and it's only this hour's was okay boom done however but now I sit down at Thanksgiving and you can't say anything why what's going on because now it's infected. It's infested not just the government's or policies 'cause we're not talking about governance or policy at each discussions it simply about civil discourse. It's about the way we we be right one on them and it's very an it's very in our especially in in today systems. It's very personality driven as well yeah I mean <hes> I think yeah I I think <hes> I just wish I mean this is just me speaking personally Ashley. I mean the people that I know and I okay my father. My father was Michigan. <hes> voted for for Donald Trump and I because my father I can have conversations about so tell me about this and and and he'll say one reason is he didn't like the other candidate okay fine fair enough but why do you like this king and and and then I'll ask him. Are you comfortable comfortable with the discourse in the United States today and a part of him kind of is didn't quite know what you say but the other part says but that he's a fighter now this is fascinating to yeah and that's why <hes> I going back to the voice in this means I had if it means living together. Can we agree on that. We have to live together. Everyone them said yes no one worried about whether we voted one or the other. We're GONNA have to live together. Yes okay so if we're GONNA live together. Choices about living together predicated on values there enough. Yes what are those values and we made a list we spent two three hours working on that really really yeah because <hes> and so and then I said and then we had interesting discussion because these values had to do with with empathy and listening listening and compassionate I mean you Paul Values. In connection to me was Wizar- concurrence between two different sides or were they all one one side of the political spectrum or both sides presented APPs. That's the point I was making is the values there is concurrent on the values before we even named besides Oh so these people didn't know each other so nobody really knew or they. They didn't know everybody in the room so they never really new everywhere. Somebody's stood. What's that yes? They didn't know everybody there but the porter was they agreed on the set of values before they even knew what quote side the. It quotes we say that side yeah what what I can't be on the side of the United States that no no you can't. There's no there's no such thing as I said I am sorry that side is not allowed. I have a room full of people who agree on the set of Baggies and so then so then what did you do. I'm curious. What would did you did you then go through policy and see how it how it measured up to values or did you take that chance even well? I said that that's that's something you have to do. From whatever side you're on you have to ask how the policy plays out with that value but I'm wondering I said with regard to our dialogue with each other. How is it that we agree to this list of that use and yet there's GonNa be a screaming match Thanksgiving House? The possibility that means something that play exactly exactly and is that something else identity and fear of losing my identity is that is that the something else or one committed to be honest. My friends wrecked the honest that for whatever reason we have tied our identity to something other than Oh my goodness terry boy you really hit on something there because that's that's extremely important -portant once we begin to tire entity to something other than our values and in our in our core driving values than it's it's just superficial garbage well as I then impacts that that happens impact allies of millions of certain. I'm certainly at the mercy of every of every curve ball that sets me up to swing this yeah. Yeah I 'cause I presume is fascinating. We're at the room. These guys agreed on their values and and has yes yeah and you know how you go on room. Yes yes yes now granted. If we going going back to my parking lot issue the value of let's say the value of been fairness was one of their values they all agreed on in case. There's going to be fair Anderson the parking lot now. We may come at it differently but you know what at the parking lot lovely could've. I figured out and yet now. We have a quote political discussion in some. Somebody's name comes up. There's all of a sudden there's vitry as you said vitual what the Hell's going on we read on the value. Do you think it would help if we really really attempted to understand the position of the of the opposite side if we really took the time to to look at it honestly active or stuff to do before for that was that I don't really you know 'cause pardon me doesn't really care about you position because I I gave them a checklist. I said for conversations I give them. You know how the F._A.. F._A._A. gives bias. They have a checklist that they had right before right right right so you have to do the same thing before you're gonna have a couch like a checklist in angers the whole bunch of stuff on it but I said one of them is the issue is never the issue. The issues never the issue in other words when people fighting that's never this you think about marriage the thing you fight about the number of the issue right. There's something else going on. So what do you do underneath so so the first thing is. I realized that if I see the issue is the issue issue but I'm GONNA bite every time somebody saying something to me but if I realize underneath that is something going on this person that there's a person underneath the issue so you're asking should I understand. There's the side rather a part of me will but I understand them. I got him riled. What's got him concern? What really are they concerned about? I mean I've had conversations with people. Let's take. Let's let's take a bullet. Let's take an issue that the border for for example I've had conversations with people and we can have a fight about whether to have a wall or not a wall but the point is what I'm having a conversation. I want to know what's going on in your life. Personally that makes you that triggers things for you or that makes you these questions. Or what kind of questions can I ask you to figure you out. Not what you believe about the position on the policy of the govern- so I can empathize. I can empathize with how you feel about this precisely one hundred two percent so I can see you as a person one hundred percent. Yes whether it's what's going on here. Yeah that's <hes> boy you know and that in that requires there that requires just a boatload of effort <hes> but see thou now you've touched on the reality about getting pestis that that we can't resolve this cognitively with resolve it with presence and boatload of empathy of of empathy and the fact is that though reasons that you and I say in pain 'cause when people are shouting earn pain okay. Let's shouting about if they're shouting there in pain. There's some kind of pain discomfort so there's a reason to cause pays so medical doctors go through thing this figure out where the paints comes from. You got sick of this out yeah well I. I'm not sure we've resolved anything but we have <hes> certainly explored the issue of what's going on. <hes> well Charlie I would say the worst thing I told the guys is that you know as as much as I wanna because a lot of them want understand either gentlemen ahead or in in laws or Dar's laws or Sunday laws all the stuff they wanted to figure out and I say the first thing is just the first takeaway okay. Here's how do you not be Morini doing your twelve by twelve right. Start their start what you bring into it with your pain whereas the pain without whereas what and where are you grounded. Chummy were grounded yeah. I think that's really critical the grounded that you know the centered as you've explained it the values I think once we understand our own that gives us a reference point point to try to understand somebody else's a one hundred percent but is so so it really begins so so the issue really begins with a self evaluation of me why why why am I so indoctrinated in this particular religious or political belief and why am I so indoctrinated to the point that I can come to anger and fighting et Thanksgiving table over over such things. It's a big person to be a self aware enough to say you know what here's here's what I'm worried about me here. Here's my triggers. Here's what the triggers are and and to be able to say for example if I if I have a difference with it's not just about governance but I've a difference with the Civil Dialogue Raton I need to be able to how that discussion without without shouting someone down or condemning to have that discussion and and and to to not be offended because Y- you know the civil discourse does not mean dispassionate discourse there can be passionate without people sometimes we should've put a microphone some of our conversations as you and I have very passion yeah and on that we're on the same page and they're great commerce. They're the best yeah and there's no. There's no offense taken no no no because you and I looked at the values and we've agreed to the values and they trump pardon my French. I don't think you would call it French. I think you'd call it something else any disagreement yeah yeah and they are e- exactly that's what I think is that for for our listeners is not to confuse <hes> civil discourse with dispassionate discourse <hes> but but that it doesn't have to be named calling and and and accusatory that there's something really you know you're. You're doing something really evil. Although I I'M GONNA post I agree with you. I'M GONNA posted saying <hes> for <hes> that <hes> translation for southern speak that when someone says bless his heart bless his heart let me he means he blesses. This is a little hard yeah. What is it certainly does not mean those words blesses little hard you know now go slap his shit out of him yeah? I think that's a good that's a good place to close. Hey thanks for <hes>. Thanks for entering into this <hes> into this world pool of a mess that we <hes> <hes> we find ourselves and <hes> I I like I like some of your your conclusion especially that your conclusions you know especially the values or oriented and the willingness to have discourse <hes> if only we could do that without without trying to raise the ire of the other see. That's you know as a whole another subject that I don't want to get into because there's so much that goes on that people people actually attempt to raise the ire of the other and and Krill been married before I know that Yeah Yeah Okay Buddy <hes> take care. It's thank thanks for coming on and and doing this with me. <hes> this is <hes> an especially you know this totally unscripted good dialogue that we had here and and I would be facing that you and I would have <hes> i._B._M.. In the beer but it'd be you and I have in the conversation yeah then me with my <hes> nice sparkling water yeah. Although I'm moving to ginger beer no good choice well yeah so look I wanna I would encourage. You need to check out your <hes> your post-sabbath moment I I was just I I received a comment on my Sabbath on my seventh moments on my on my blog about somebody that <hes> read your Sabbath moment and I talked to my priest yesterday as we were going over Richard Rohr's theology and he was mentioning mentioning <hes> the the story you told of bridge building as opposed defense building and and <hes> he was very moved by that and so I just WANNA encourage our listeners listeners to <hes> check into your Sabbath which comes out every Monday and can be found Terry Hershey Dot com and I want to also thank all our listeners for tuning into the next chapter with Charlie and be sure to check us out at our website. The next is chapter dot life and until next this is Charlie hedges signing off by for now uh at farmers insurance we know the sound of a perfect hot air balloon landing and a lesson perfect one click for more underwritten my farmers truck fire insurance exchanges and affiliates Proxima Able in every state. Will your child be ready for kindergarten at Chester broke academy preschool. The answer is yes. Our curriculum offers the perfect balance of learning and play. Our teachers personalized that experience.

Terry Terry Charlie hedges United States Terry Hershey Mo- Heaney Michigan Tigers caffeine Kris Senator China Charles Darwin John His Simon Peter Ohio Jesus Richard Rohr Richmond Washington
#176 Dena Crowder 2020: The Year of Wisdom

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37:53 min | 9 months ago

#176 Dena Crowder 2020: The Year of Wisdom

"Welcome everybody's time. Once again for the next chapter with charlie hedges as he explores turning the page on his life and yours. Hey charlie hey. Paul today is going to be a very interesting close of the year. Podcast our personal life. Coach dina crowder and i will wrap up two thousand twenty by reviewing my personal year and trying to determine what essential life wisdom lesson did. I learned this year Dina crowder is the best at digging deep into the inner self to help. Determine wisdom lessons learned in life. And that's what this show is called. Twenty twenty the year of wisdom strangely enough so today i will participate with dina crowder in edina crowder designed life learning exercise which she will take me down a road to discover what wisdom i may have gain from two thousand twenty. This process is always so fun. And just a bit scary because the truth emerges maybe pleasant or maybe a significant challenge. But either way it's truth and we need to pay attention to so for today's episode. I'd like you to know that. I planned to enter the show about five minutes into the conversation. You won't make anything. Dina is just beginning her over review process but before the conversation re explain or read re described a bit about dina. Dna crowder is known as the most innovative strategist and consultant for leaders and and creators clients. Include grammy and emmy award winners. Cnn rose founders writers performers educators and upstarts from every industry. Her latest achievement is dina participated in ted ex. Talk titled the power. Is you know. i'm wondering how many of us are feeling that power in quarantine. Today some are feeling the power summer struggling. And that's what we're going to talk about so paul. Let's join dena already in conversation with me as we begin the next chapter which harley so dinna before we get to analyzing me which i will most surely even though we have a briefing podcast. I will still put off looking at me as long as possible Tell me about the power labs that you were conducting all over the country today. I think it's a brilliant idea. Can you explain what those are about. Absolutely before i do though i would love to reflect to you charlie and all of your listeners that i don't see bad parts in u. or in any of my beloved clients and i see parts aspects and some are more let us say integrated and whole than others. The process is you described a digging process a deep inquiry. And when we do that we're not looking to identify anything as a bad and wrong. We're looking to see parts that don't match there. That are that are fragmented about the word that i like to use or a simpler way to even think about it is these aspects that are out of step with present time and maybe not able to give and receive love or contribute and be contributed to and my job is to shine a light on those parts not to malign them or punish them but to help you bring them integrate them. Bring them into a healthy foal. A word i've been been brought into my lexicon lately and it sounds very much like it. Fits with what you're doing and its alignment with you know sort of core self sort of core sense of values of who you are would you. Would you think that's that's true. Yeah alignment And core yeah absolutely. Yeah that's a fascinating. You said something that got me interested and as my normal my notepad is missing. And i don't know what's doing with that because i now can't remember the question i wanted to ask you about the power lab and we that yeah you asked me about the power. Explain the power labs to us. The power lab are small immersive groups labs if you will for as short as a couple of hours and as as long as a couple of days that allow people to come together in intimate fashion people who are very different. Different walks of life. Different races religions background but to come together around a single topic to have transformation in their own belief system and come away not only with a new perspective but that word we just used earlier wholeness with a a much more whole feeling on the inside and ability to take action on the outside. Now the one that you came to. Charlie was in the springtime when all of the racial issues were and conversations were coming to the fore spring of twenty twenty and in that lab we explored what it really means to be in power and to embody power in the ratio conversation of this country. America and the purpose of that is for people to walk away. So you can speak to this as a participant whether this is true to walk away when i say a new perspective to walk away from that saying wow i not only learn something new about other people who i think are different. That can cause me to feel related to them as a human being have compassion for them. But i also am able to take different actions in the world in a way that leaves the world better than i found it. I like that. You know. I i discovered with with the people. Because there were male female Different races in and as i said different genders and and yet there was a common theme of where almost it was like. Vitriol is off the table. We're not going to talk about that. We're just going to say here's my questions. Here's what i don't understand can. Can you explain this to me. So i can understand it better. And there was appreciation that there was a heart of goodness and everybody. In the room there was not a heart of Of evil or destruction or bringing down anybody but there was a heart to understand. How did you. I'm not sure that that's true. The population in general. What do you think in may be buried very deep down there somewhere been covered over like a a lamp that was left out in grand central station. For hundred years is covered over by distractions and and dust and confusion. I do believe that deep down it is there but when you please fear and anxiety and tension and misperception and some even deliberate denial and and lies on top of that core. Then you're dealing you're dealing with different frequency after fears fear and lies. Are you know they strike me as a prominent issue. That's going on now. Is that is that. That's probably have such divisiveness. There is no trust on because there is the assumption that the leadership on one side. Whatever they're saying is a lie from some people is the truth from others and and And then it's the fear of my security or mike continued. Insecurity there is this. There's this fear that. I need something and that the government is the only thing that's going to help and you know we are. We're in for an interesting time. Yes that's this is going to be an adventure because no matter where you stand. There is another half of the country. That isn't standing with you right. Know that's That's a huge. Here's the things i've been talking about. How before before the election. I was saying no matter who wins the election. There will be pain and suffering. It will not be equally distributed however everyone will experience pain and suffering no matter who is winning the election because the level of enmity is so great and as you just said the level of distrust what whoever the president is even. If it's the president sitting in the office that you voted for and are happy is there. You have half of the country that is going to hell for leather to undermine that person their agenda but also the entire other. I would say the the other agenda of the that that half of the nation. That isn't going your way that so disconcerting and just and just the idea that you just said of Going your way is just an assumption that my opinion really rules over any other opinion and you know my way is not necessarily the right way or the best way. We need a lot of power lab. Charlie we need people all over the country coming to a power lab and having an experience of the humanity and perhaps goodness and good intentions and real possibility of people who are not like themselves because that is really the only way that i hate. The word that's used often to me were so divided. Yes it's true that word division. It's it's like there's a. There's a rift a personal and individual rift inside of us and that's being reflected in the collective so that disconnection is the real the real pandemic outside of covid we've got a dilemma of disconnection and it's a disease and that's what has to be healed for our nation to heal. Let's do this. Tina i you know i want it because i am agreeing. We talked about the nation. And i. i'm i'm you know we. We really concur with that. What i want to talk about is something different is something i it's about the individual there are. There are certain things that collectively. I'm going to have little or no impact on. I'm just going to have to live with and support and or not support. Do do whatever i can. But there is a level of my personal wisdom that will help me deal with social events personal events and interpersonal events. Things that are going inside of me and and that is kind of what you wanted to get at today and that was what did i learn from two thousand twenty that i can import and and apply in my life. Currently is that correct that is there is bravo by the way a plus a plus dr. So can we quit now. We we must press on charlie. There is something called a theme. You're year theme. You charlie along with everybody else. Has your own personal theme every single year inside covert outside of covert and what this team does. Is it acts as a bouncer at the gate. it's a guide host. it's a barometer. it's like a color. Swatch that you get at the pace store and you take it home and you try to make a match with the color on the swat and the color. That's already in your house. It's all of those things because when you have this theme in your awareness it gives you purpose and it allows you to make choices. That are in alignment with where you're year your spirit your soul your personality. Your life is trying to take you. We have discussed this. And there's something that goes along with the theme once you find your theme. And that is your wisdom elixir and your wisdom. Elixir is something that is just a reminder and it helps to support you in following your theme so what we're gonna do today. Charlie is fine one of your wisdom elixirs and this is coming Maybe counter intuitively one of your big disappointments that you had in twenty twenty. Has that sound. Charlie sounds Sounds interesting okay. Do me a favor just just so. I know because. I'm not convinced i know the name. The the definition of the word alexa is. It's a drink that makes you feel better absolutely and one hundred percent. It's we can substitute the word medicine for elixir. Or if people don't like that it can just be wisdom lesson. But yes in the liquor. Is something always associated with the gods from a mythological tale. They always seem to have some elixir. Or have you drink some nectar and it does a good thing. So i'm like elixir to now that i know for sure. Yes that's exactly what it is Okay let's get this show on the road. Let's see what's happened. Let's let's Dissect me it will be very painful. Charlie i promise. I'm myself so i'll setup for pain. Let's go now. I know we're tossing. Bye-bye no pain and punishment now for those of you who are listening. You can do this along with charlie I ask charlie to make a list previously of any disappointment or regrets that he himself experienced in twenty twenty. And i have been asked him. So you can do that. You can make a list while. You're listening to charlie and i do this step because that's the first step if you're saying i do not want to make a list because cove was a beast and all the other things that happen this year. We're a just a lot. So the last thing i want to do is look at those things. I wanna make this year stop and i wanna get out alive. Please do not have me write those down. Here's what i wanna say to you. Very short term discomfort. You will feel in making this list hale. In comparison to the rewards that you will receive from getting your wisdom lesson or your wisdom elixir As a result if you do not make contac- acknowledged and let go of those disappointments or regrets from the year. Unfortunately you will drag them with you like a big knapsack of burden or like chains in a prisoner might wear. They just get dragged into the new thing. You don't get rid of them by not looking at them. Denial is is not a powerful coping mechanism in the long run about what i want. Say to you to encourage you to have does the I guess Willingness would be the word to try it. Okay charlie. you've already done your list. What you now to pick one thing on your list. One disappointment from the year that we are going to use for the exercise. You know i have to have one. I'm more passionate about. But a second one that i think might be more helpful for our exercise. Let's go let's go with the one. I'm more passionate about it and see where that leads because it's very personal and and it's not not necessarily related to covert aloe vary slightly as the audience knows. I'm very close with my son. Austin and his wife maggie and we you know. We spend so much time together when he was raised. I was a consultant. That i could spend. I probably spent twenty hours a week with him. I only worked. I could work what i wanted. I worked twenty five hours a week. So i could spend time with my son and we continue to be close today and my son was drafted by the san diego. Padres out of high school so at nineteen years old and he spent nine and a half years with the padre system and had really successful years and always defensively successful not always offensively successful and during the last minute trades of everything he got traded this year after nine years with The organization not in the big leagues but nine years with the organization which is a long time in today's baseball and and and that was a disappointment to me. And you know it has nothing to do with management. The he was traded to the cleveland indians. They wanted him desperately they they love him as a catcher. They've been trying to get him for a number of years So you know he will be. He was still be living in san diego but he will be playing in cleveland. And then there's always you know you always have to run this thing in your mind. Oh did they want him did they. Now want him. And you know you're you're so it's very easy to go into the. I'm except that i am not accepted motif But i learned. I learned to deal with it but it was a really. It was said it was a very difficult time but his strangely learning time for me that help explain the great okay. You did great. So here's my next question and for anybody listening if you did your disappointments or regrets list and pick one thing. Starting we just want to pick one thing for this exercise and you heard charlie's one thing let's take a little further. What about him. Being traded disappointed you the most for example was it simply that he would be farther away from you or was it something else. This is going to be much more difficult to talk about them. I thought You know there is always. I think underlying oliver psychosis is the fear of rejection and it's the fear of not being wanted. Some you know wanting somebody else in your place. And as strong as he is and his wanted izzy is by everybody else and his claims in this sports or or in the sport is very high. there is that sadness. Nece the idea that somebody didn't want him and and he had been with him for nine years and players loved him and he was just he was really a favorite but it just an and i understand the business behind the deal and there was a good business deal. You know it was. I don't complain about that at all. I don't feel like he was robbed. Mistreated or anything. It was still just. I think that's not being accepted was the And and somehow i. I'm not the one. That's not being accepted but i i somehow internalized it. Yes well this is very normal. He's your son he's part of you. He's a reflection of you. Walking around in the world and how people view him and value him it has a relationship to how you are viewed and valued in in the way that and this is true in the way that we operate as human beings the same is true for example if a husband and wife situation or sometimes even the boyfriend and girlfriend if we are in relationship with someone we are i and identifying with them and are identified as part of them in the world then how that person is. Viewed in valued can often impact in our own psyche. How we view and value ourselves or how we think we're being viewed and valued makes sense logically it makes sense but but but Sort of my internal compass. It doesn't make sense. It's it's crazy to think that way. Well we human beings are mysterious and interesting lot. Charlie what can i say. We are incredible and at the core. Definitely there is a great deal of beauty and goodness and capacity and yet we we have all of these Very maybe one would say not necessarily logical and very emotional places of connection so this is this is nothing for in any listener. That is thinking. Wow i can really relate to that. I'm sure you can. Because we can all relate to you charlie. We've all been in your situation. Maybe not the exact detail. We didn't have a son who was traded but we can all all relate to having someone associated with us and a change in their status fortin impacted how we were feeling emotionally about ourselves so having said that and understanding now that you had some sadness and that the inner conversation deep down was one of wanted not wanted accepted not accepted valued not valued. Those would be the the power dynamics going on in you and the narrative. Then here's where the good part comes. The good part is after connecting to the disappointment. Then we identify what it was that we were really feeling about it. And around it and we then move onto the seed of wisdom wisdom takes us beyond right and wrong beyond reality beyond any kind of critical judgment and into a place where there is this. This medicine this elixir. That can uplift and enlighten the whole situation. I'm going to ask you. You can keep your eyes open or closed but for your listeners. It might be helpful to close their eyes if they're doing this right along with us. And imagine that your seed of disappointment in this one instance that you chose is actually a divine appointment that with the seed of disappointment within that lead is gold gold wisdom gold healing energy. And if you can imagine that and if you can't imagine it pretend you can imagine it. It will still work. I want you to also imagine that you are connecting to what i call your god self and this is the highest and truest part of you. If you don't relate to the word. God you can certainly Translate that into a word that works for you. But i'm gonna continue to call it your god self. The highest intrudes part. You and this part connects you to the highest stream of wisdom. That is possible for you to connect to right now and from that point of view. I am going to ask you this. Holy grail question. What wisdom is at the very core of this disappointment. A wisdom at so powerful that if you could listen to it and take it in it would change it would change and shift how you feel about the situation and it would allow you to move out of repeating the same actions or it would be a huge differentiator and you could really move on so that again imagining that you are connected to the highest stream of wisdom. At this time you can be in connection with and asking. Okay if i were to go down down down into the core the juicy core of the disappointment there is something there that is a wisdom that could liberate me from having to repeat this disappointment Again repeat the action or at the very least. Liberate me from my feelings about it so charlie health. What you've got. That's a complicated question. Well tell us your possible wisdom lesson that you got when you asked that question. We know there. I don't know if there are several answers but there's parts to the answer great. Let's do it and and the answer is there's the great value that i've i've learned in the last four or five years is acceptance and non judgmental ism I think i've mentioned it. My wife and i have really applied that in our marriage our marriages is really just powerful. Right now is that we just sort of accept what other with the other wants to do and and are trying to remain. Non judgmental audit if there is a judgment. It's it's done kind in. What do you think about this sort of way. Rather than finger pointing and i think with this situation with my son. They're also comes to mind two or three things come to mind. One comes to mind the difference between the difference between The expectation of what it will take to to fill a basic human need and the reality of what it takes to fill a basic human need. I think acceptance among. I i believe in in in three values to be seen or heard to be accepted by something significant to be cared for and if and when we are not accepted by something we consider significant. That is a major loss. That's to me. That's one of the three big major losses in in our psyche. And so that you know that is attacked by this by this Change in jobs but it comes to anytime. We've seen a change in jobs. We've seen positives come with it and opportunities come with. It would never come before. So i think i think the wisdom in me is twofold is and it is with my son as well too trusting god in that there is a goodness of god and to wait with patience and kindness and sort of the absence of any anger toward any other people. And and let's. Let's make sure that if we do get angry we can accept it and work to transform it as is appropriate in something creative so that people listening. Maybe don't oh. I want to suppress my anger. That never works. But here's here's what. Here's what i took from that Tell me if. I'm if i heard correctly your top wisdom elixirs into twenty twenty one our trust in god and to wait with patience and kindness because the outcome the ending of the story isn't yet it's still ongoing. Did i hear that correctly. That's great you heard a better than i. Put it and what i also heard in that is that you are really accepting accepting loss as part of your humanity that you will feel loss and as you accept loss and that loss is part of your human journey. You're also not pre judging the future outcome of that loss you can accept the loss you can perhaps grieve it in this case might be appropriate grieving. The change grieving his leaving anything associated with it. That clears the way for you not to be to tap future catastrophes. I like to call it and putting in any of the law into the future. So you can let it go. And you don't have to prejudge any future outcome. You can stay in the present as you mentioned trusting in god and waiting with patients having kindness as he wait with patience and participating is the outcome unfold dina. Do you have that written down. I did. I wrote it down. Pretty charlie you can you. Can you copy that to me. And i'll put it in the show notes. Absolutely do you know. We are approaching our time. It is It's always so wonderful to chat with you your insights. you know. I think you are a you are. You're definitely a healer and you are. You're working to heal our divide you working to heal individuals and to restore people back to back to just the intent of enjoying and participated in life. I i so appreciate you. Dina you really are the best. Thank you charlie. I appreciate you and to wrap up for your listeners. If they followed along with the exercise it's got three parts. Connect is first part and that is connecting to the disappointments and giving themselves permission. Really go there. The second is also connecting and that is to their seat of and coming out with their top wisdom elixir and the last one is commit and that is committing to a new choice and new actions based on that wisdom elixir. So i'm rooting for everyone in your audience to get the proper support. They need even if it's just grabbing a friend to be an accountability buddy with them in twenty twenty one to help keep them on purpose with practicing this wisdom. Great thank you. We'll close with that. Thank you so much. I appreciate the same thing democrat. Thank you so much for spending time with me today. also want to thank our listeners tuned into the next chapter with charlie and please be sure to check us out at our website the next chapter dot life and until next. This is charlie hedges signing off by for now don.

charlie dina crowder Charlie charlie hedges dina Dina crowder edina crowder Dna crowder grammy and emmy award ted ex dinna dena Dina grand central station harley oliver psychosis Cnn Nece san diego Swatch
#186 Terry Hershey: Talking to Ourselves

OC Talk Radio

45:17 min | 6 months ago

#186 Terry Hershey: Talking to Ourselves

"Welcome everybody's time once again for the next chapter with charlie hedges as he explores turning the page on his life and yours today terry hershey and i explore one possible reason that america is so radically divided. Each side is firmly. Convinced that they're right. That's because each side will cite supposed- factual information in support of their beliefs. But you know information is not the problem. It's about the source of our information. One of the big reasons for our strong battle lines just may be that our information is too biased. We tend to rely only on information that supports the stance that we've already agreed upon therefore we simply end up talking to ourselves. Is there a middle. Ground is a middle ground. Even possible in this podcast. Terry hershey and i really wrestle with trying to figure out some way to have somewhat of a bipartisan dialogue. I hope you enjoy guys stumbling around in hope of discovering a common ground. I think we almost get there. But it's in the second half of the episode. See for yourself as we welcome terry hershey You'll hirsch a while you know. Terry it's been awhile since we've been on the last show together it. It seems maybe it's not but it feels like it is good to have you back. Thanks it was. I think last time with us right before the pandemic i i think we probably i. I think you kind of you. You kind of put that into your past memory. Now there were moving out of it and in my guess is quite soon to move back into it again. Although i call i call every in canoes in my life now a pandemic that words you know I'm beginning to see terry in the last couple of our podcast at any anytime. I have a difficult subject or a difficult. Thought for a podcast. I come to you for feedback. So i've thrown all the crap on you and letting you be the the foil for me especially today. Because i think once again you and i may approach today's topic from different points of view which is exactly what i want and what i'd like to do is offer sort of an extended introduction so our listeners can understand the gist of of what i'm getting at so this is a couple minutes on this I'd like to begin with an old. Neil postman quote from his best selling book amusing ourselves to death and the quote goes something like this. I don't have it exactly. I just remember it while. Americans may be the most entertained people in the world. They are the least informed now. I think that may have been true in nineteen eighty five. But i don't think that's the case today. In fact i think the case today is americans may have become highly informed and well it is true that that informed people make better decisions the critical aspect of that is what is the source of information that becomes the ground upon which we make stands. And it's personal stands political stands theological stands. What is the information that we use to determine what our positions are and our problem is that i think we suffer from too much prejudice and biased information. I think you call the confirmation bias. Which i'm going to ask you to explain to us. We tend to rely on information sources. That only support what we already believed. You know it's kind of like fox news versus msn news msn nbc or msn. Whatever of those are unfortunately too often. The information received only supports what we already believe and it does not educate as a result. Our personal and political climates have become treacherously separated. And i'll close with this. The result is we end up with people that are talking to themselves. They either watched the right wing news of the left wing newspapers or their particular groups news and not another particular grips news groups news and the end up talking themselves while holding the somewhat. Nascent vitriol for anyone that holds a different point of view than them. That's my thesis. What do you think about that if it was intelligible knowing each other how many years my goodness terry we are. We are thirty or forty plus nineteen forty six and even early on back. In the day. I forget the restaurant where used to meet at launches. No on the leg thought we be pulled no punches. No we did not. We did not You know we went after it even that and so forty. Some odd years of did Debates and discussions and debates is a good word debates and discussions. And i'm glad you're having me talk about this subject today because most of those debates with you and me i was right. You know i i will say. I don't know that. I would say most of them but i would say at certain certainly a significant number of them. I will say that goes to my credit and willingness to willing to change you. Give me good day out now. Dementia the fact that i started with i was raised in a religious faith where there was only right and only wrong nor there is no middle ground. There is no I don't know there was no. I'm not sure none of that was allow. You weren't free to admit that for even say that and if you did believe it in your spirit or heart you didn't fess up to your guest so then you just made shut up. And that was that was great based on sumptious was it not based on certain interpretations in assumptions that we are free presuppositions. Yeah yeah this is true. This is true right. What's interesting is i'm out At that time in my life i was starting to say What is it okay to the wrong about by wrong. I mean what is it okay to to the unwarranted about and i'm gonna does not in a bad way. It means that. I need to know more. What do i need to know more about. That's why the fights were good because But we need to start with this Neither one of us Needed to take the other person down. This is an important thing we start. I didn't need to take you down. Why was cited near what was what was going on. I mean we need you know that that's a that's an excellent observation. And i and i see a need for that today because because you did not threaten you did not tell me that. I was only cherry if i was this sir. Thank goodness i was that way forty years ago. That's crazy. yeah well yeah yeah you. The u But you there was a part of the thing with you that you were at a part of the time of your life where you were. The one thing that you have at in your core is Curiosity correct and curiosity is a big thing for you. And so you're always willing to then keep picking that stuff. And that's and i who knows why that that we didn't need to take each other. I mean your intro talking about mostly technical for the costa but it can be religious equality and of course of course that we have to take somebody else down in order parts of the correct. This is not new though. Charlie i mean you you your intro. As as if this is new. I'm just reading book now. Called these truths by What's her name. Jill lepore anyway. It's about the united states could learn. Jesus every single thing you said could have been said in in seventeen eighty and it was worse. Then was it not. Here's why is this the irony because this gets to the point of what you said you said were ill-informed we're not more. We are not even close to being more informed now we just have more data swirling around us in a way that we cannot process. Yes i i agree that my called us. Why esther prejudice lii informed is informed only to what we already believe. Were well the we have our data sources that we choose right And at some point at some point there there's a there's a data source it ironic. They're probably ronnie then in some areas some fields some places in our life and world. We ever no problem at all saying there's one data so you go to a baseball game and there's a data source one fight for that. There's a data so that's interesting and yet if you sat next to somebody being even though you guys don't argue about the fact that there's a data search their their strikes thirty balls there's hours through runs there's wins there's losses you have no power the dentist then whatsoever better as soon as you mentioned says republican or democrat all my god. You don't have the data shows. I'm just curious about that. Yeah leaving the data source of the baseball game. There are there are certain rules. But then the rules are debatable. Radically so depending on the team. You're on you're going to interpret one data source strike ball out save. Was it in fact and influence in fillers fly rule so there's still a lot of interpretation within the baseball it's not i don't disagree with that part it but you're debating they fund that particular fact in other words. We know that that i'm causing. Hi yes or poorly. Exactly hiving poorly. The thing you said about who is who is bay for the game. Neil postman in from and using. I know where that came from. We're not more informed now. We're not even close to inform. Now here's the point. Charlie in this is the question. I asked myself because i'm actually a news person i read and by news. I mean events of the world. That's what i mean. I wanna know what's going on in my world. Their parts of the world. That i want that where people are fighting issues suffering issues dealing with issues how to know that i want to know that. So i'm a junkie about that. So and i read however what's interesting about being firm is Just because we get a lot of stuff. We're not more informed now not even close yet you know and and and i think i think i agree with you and i wanna make a distinction between a form than i informed and i wanna come back to. I think the chances are we. Listen more than the eighties. Maybe not in the sixties and the and the fifties with walter cronkite and and the gurus of of news casting. We are more. We seek more information from our perforce preferred sources than we did in the eighties. And that's what. I need more informed. I call it i to me. It's mallon formed misinformed prejudicially informed that. There's a lot more information going out. If i if i talked to somebody and you know i don't know how we can do this without getting too political if i talked to somebody on the right. Then you're going to give me. The greatest data in the world is support. Their views and i talked to somebody on the left. That is is totally opposite of their view. And i will get data. As a matter of fact. I'll give you an example during the election. I made an attempt for a while to watch. And i just and i can tell you the names to watch. Cnn medicine. Is it. What msn fox news and then a middle of the road. And i wanted to tell you terry. I was convinced by all of them. they're they're supposed. Dato was so powerful that it was convincing. And so i can see how we have such disparaging and even treacherous separation between the views of people in our world that are informed by prejudicial information so i think that's why is different than postman postmen were paying that much attention to the world news. We are more entered more in entertainment according to his book anyway into him amusing ourselves to death. So that's what i mean by information is is that we're looking not at unbiased or a wide range so we can then come to some kind of conclusion where you anyone who watches those everyone who watches any of those sources for news is there's an concretize fascinating that we choose cronkite. So therefore everything he said was accurate because we can say conquer. Now it's fascinating anyway so anyway but interesting to me is anybody who watches englishman's i watch it 'cause we always say we have a bias and we do and my bias is left. I'm unabashed about it. And i'm talking about other. That's true but the illogically church related. God related eileen progressive. Okay here's my question is in watching our resources. Is it possible to watch that and still ask the question. What can i do. I take it automatically at face. Value per se. Or do i just throw it into the hopper and begin to understand and discover legitimate possible that there's that's not the whole story. That is a great question and unfortunately my answer is i fear most of the population does not do what you just think what. You just jess okay. And that's that's a valid point and so that's what's interesting. I fear that most of so. That's what's interesting. But i wanna start another way around. I wanna say some people. Don't some people accurate new sooners. If i'm going to have a conversation or something. I don't want to automatically assume although when i think of someone watching beginning their data from one source i was so more and i need to. I'm just start with the assumption that we can have a conversation that may be cut complete mirage or other words. There's still a conversation he had is the point. I'm making and you know what is necessary in that conversation. I wanted to get to this later. This is a good point who interject that. What is needed. There is an effort to discover or create a common ground in that we can. We can find a common ground rather than if we don't find a common ground with just debate but if we can find common ground that we both agree on then we can bring our position points to it discuss there and see how a how did they Attributed to the benefit of both sides but unless we find some sort of common ground. Let me give you an example. I was listening to was a youtuber. We listening to it in the car and it was by passed archbishop of canterbury row and williams who's just a brilliant humanitarian theologian. And he was talking. He was at a conference and at the conference. It was a religious conference except there were a couple of. Shall we say dyed-in-the-wool communists from china and when they were talking about their belief in communist philosophy mao and communism as public option. You know and he didn't mean it in argumentative humidity in common ground. Will there is a belief with you in the west. And the way you view god because you view god the way we view you politics you've you got The way we we view now and you view the bible the way we view communism now of a row and was really clear and saying that you know there was some troubles with with the comparison. He says it did show me. It was a common ground. We both believe in a thority in an authority that is outside of ourselves and that indeed itself became common ground for discussion xanax. Sense to you yeah. Of course. I've written about confirmation bias before but i'll read you the original definition. We judge moore ideas based on the ease with which they fit in with or confirmed the only standard we have. Which is the ideas old information and trust towards your thing about which source as a result are framing story. Now this is the king our belief system our paradigm our narrative. What's the narrative by which we quote reality excludes whatever doesn't fit it that's precisely my proud permission. Bias starts with that. Can't be true in the in the can't be true. The flatterers the sitara something. Everybody can Course the flatter that made sense nominee. I believe that you know which is not true. There's a flatter suicide realize that right ladders a flatter society. I'm not sure what you mean. Bladder rahmat that earth. Oh no there's there's evidence for flatter you. So that's charlie you're you see you're not open to new ideas is a there is a society in the world. That still believes earth is flat about things one. is you here. We assume for that's easy. Nobody believes that so that doesn't go into our confirmation bias but when it comes to new stuff it's hard to admit that's not in our confirmation bias but one of my favorite face of course because i just love watching this for flat earth society has a facebook page as everyone does of course they have a facebook page and the flatter society of proud that they have many members of their society from around the globe okay. Flatter society has members from around the globe. So how do we come to concurrence. How do we find common ground in my mind. The flatter society. It really is a one off. It's not going to be a debate among the majority of our population. United states and i'm standing in a pulpit today and a half of my congregation tells me that the current president is not our current president because he wasn't elected and tell me not only was he not elected but election was stolen. And telling me that not only was it stolen and then they give me reason why clattered is a wonder. Well slatter is. The media is minor compared to that. But that you're making my point that that you're confirming my point. My job as the pastor of that church is your question is how in the hell do i find common ground. You and you're looking for an answer from me. No the answer. The question is i leave the pasture. I get another job. That doesn't of the issue as it now. The issue is i start with disa- question. The question is that particular one about the election. It's a provable thing. That's a provable. Bank let me say it's provable. Except if you're strongly right and then they will argue. it's provable. that is not now. I don't know how they argue. But i have to start with the que- the question you're asking is how do i find common ground. He's i ask a different question. And the question is not specifically about the rightness or wrongness of whatever were debating. The question is what kind of world do you want to live in here. That's a great common ground question. I i love that. And i'm talking about here. Let's be rudy specific or sitting in the same damn church rock kind of world. Do you want when these. What are the values that we are going to practice with other people other people and we choose or even outside these views. Yes love restaurant in news. Because we're going straight here. Let's start here then to your point yes once you once you get bigger at then you ask the question but i soon rec- wonder when i hear people talk whether they've ever asked that question nuance of my answer to that is correcting the wrong people. Then i got ask then. I've got to say that. I understand the question. It does require as much as i dislike. This terminology really does require some kind of taking of his side. Somehow taking a you know assuming that position our that riot idea you know you know what i'm calling the today i'm calling for a pliant a pliant certainty that we need to be searching but it needs to be planned needs to be open ended. I wrote it from a seth godin blog. Good it's it's a certainty that begs for accuracy and the problem with the certainty and the accuracy is to what or by what standard to. We measure accuracy. Seth godin a great blog a couple of days ago on Value of accuracy over certainty in my question was how do you determine accuracy like statistical data. You know statistical data. There is no such thing in my mind. As data proven statistical accuracy. Because i in dealing with my with our productivity in africa was statistics. And it's all depends on how you interpret those statistics. Different statisticians will interpret those statistics differently and can be quite opposite in determining the conclusions of this statistic. So much of our accuracy are fact. Checking boils down to opinion boils down to what filter that information goes. And that's why i you know it's just it's a very you know i'm not going to have answers on this podcast. I'm just presenting an opportunity for those of us listening to suggest we need. It's essential that we are open and not closed otherwise. We just have this society. That has a penchant for divisive ism and has no shot at reconciliation at asking more questions about the uganda thing. That's been a happened with anything. It's fun when you and i can you and i have unabashedly talking politics. We have no problem with that. Wonderful irony what you do in uganda's burke or the oh ferry it is extraordinary portfolio but the well being of people in that case in a particular country all right i would. I would say it can get political when the government gets involved but where we are in. The very rural areas is very humanitarian in Lashley thing to say that it's humanitarian. Trump. 'cause new courses humanitarian but political means. How do you work together as people. That's just the basic definitely. Yes yes yes if we take if we take a fundamental hatem definition. You're right but how many people get defined politics as such. I'm just telling you that's what it is but the majority of the populace will not define politics that way. I'm just saying that's what it is. But and and. What's great about this conversation is. I had a great point to make an. I forgot it already as we. We went somewhere else but it was going to be awesome. Well is i'm sorry Hated to take you that way. Where were we all over. The map terry Figure trying to this. this this issue out information that supports our preconceived notions. I have strong friends. That are extreme right. That are very influential in their fax. Ner data are are really just superb superb. Thou happened to personally not agree with a great number of it. And i have. I wouldn't say as many strong friends on the left. But i had good strong friends on the left. That like yourself that give me excellent data that contradicts what my people in the right said. What's a guy like me to believe. Where am i going to go. There's two kinds of data. And i'm and this is obviously a generalization but there two kinds of data. This is the conversation about climate for the accurate and other reserve a number attached and this is has to baseball to then there are elements of that we skew but the other kind of data is how we navigate where we go from here with this subject. That's a different kind of data. And the we can. We can have variations on that. We can have differences on that. That's a wonderful part about it. But we must i accept the data. Yep for example the temperature of the garbage act. That's i'm challenged now where we go from here now or now that part of that you have an interpretation interpretation but now at least what kind of world do you wanna live in now. We can at least comfort. We can come back to that. And that is it. Not the common ground that we were referring to miller. My books are about self care. Migros ministering about refueling. If i'm not at home in my own skin. I literally not worthless. But i'm close. I've got nothing to give. And i don't see things clearly i'm telling you. This subject is informed by that. Because we're crazy in terms of whether we don't take care of ourselves. We are more susceptible to confirmation bias. 'cause we don't we're not at home in our own skin final in my own skin. I can learn something. I can change. I can say. Or that's new. I can say. Oh that's good. I can say i'm not sure another. There's a discussion of it. Doesn't take my identity away you know. That's very very true historical haiti's ord mystical christianity. Need to find another term but in that is the small. Sulfur is the true self in that we so much live in a small self which is comprised primarily of selfishness in fear and as long as we live in the realms of selfishness and fear we're going to be in protection mode and protection jar that use thing right now we're set up. The whole show is exactly perfect yourself nor showers. The way i navigate this subject today. Charlie depends on whether i'd advocate with my small cell was ever or macos. He's tuten exactly exactly and so what's interesting is but stake is howard to why now make choices so that i live from my true self mirrors incentive asking. How do i defend my position. I'd be right or wrong in other words. Not moving second or third in the beginning of that. According to my teachers is you don't begin with the true self. You begin with a small self and you start saying it myself. Which how am i. fearful. I'm into possessions and power and prestige and we evaluate ourselves on a regular basis because the teachers all talk about annihilation of the small self and when we annihilate small self we we provide opportunity for that true self which was created which was made at creation in this part of the creation and ted is part of the closest we can get with divinity but we have to get ourselves out of the way and i think that has to do exactly as you said with with the subject of this show and that we are our own enemies and that we get in the way of truth and reconciliation because of our fears and our needs to protect ourself. Our pride are wanting for credit. You know so. Many so many things in all of that all of that comes from insecurities and fears and those are the thing. That's why to deal with. Yeah that's why to the point of these days who you're talking about these days with the massive quote what you confirmation or the surgery with that but the point is ranked we're were inundated was day. Were data no doubt about that. Okay where they. But what's interesting in the fighting in discussion. His if there is a the anger level is high. That says to me. This is not a question my daddy this question about some also then you go there you go great observation there you go. The anger level is high to step back from that in other words. I don't need to prove you all and by the way given given the whole thing about this whole subject. This shouldn't start now. i'll give you a quote from. Let's say two thousand years ago there's a group of people said excuse me can anything good come out of galilee. I think it was nazareth. Oh yeah no but it was somewhere in there. Yeah you know you're right. I was going to write a blog. That i i. I started blog this weekend. And just didn't have the wherewithal to finish it. But i called it era tation. And here's a quote and this will be. This will really have you know. Impact our discussion and quotes says. Every time you find yourself irritated with someone the one you need to look at is yourself. The question is not what is wrong with this person. But what does this irritation. Tell me about myself. That's what you're getting at. You know when you're when you're highly angry about something what is that. What is that telling you about yourself. Now what is that telling you about the person you're angry with. What is that telling you about. Your small needs that they are not getting satisfied in your being challenged in that. You're fearful so it's a story. I told for years about two story about an ad for the humane society was back in the day of life and magazines. Or there's a puppy and and of course they're wanting people to get puppies and the humane society the ad quote over the top of the puppy. It said this. It's who owns them. That makes them in those what you just said. So is the deal terry that we must own ourselves. I have to start with that personal internal question. Who will run owns me. Why do i let that person get. Yeah nat is and that is on the humanistic level that is me only me on a divine level that is me being owned by a non prejudicial gop per prejudicial god We're not gonna take a break today. And i think we've covered a lot of information and i think there's plenty to ponder on. I want to close with A discussion on something. You and i talked about as perhaps a it could be a path to common ground but it is certainly a path to compassion and to a methodology to question our our theology. Our person this and our politics now. I will go back to a story. Forty years back when i was in seminary when i was in seminary i went to a conservative back to seminary and there there were two major issues. One of them still going on one is not but one was marriage remarriage and divorce that according to the bible was not in in my seminaries position was not acceptable and the other was abortion. And there were all kinds of theologies floating around books floating around classes floating around everybody quoting bible and quoting quoting their positions according historical positions and whoever whatever theologian they could get to support their their ideals and it came to me terry that the individuals of the professors that were that. Were strongly in favor of you. Know was strongly the against divorce and remarriage and against abortion in occurred to me that until you can put a face on your theology. The means nothing until you can put a face on your any allergy. It is a meaningless ideology and that for therefore if it is your daughter or son or grandchild until you can put that face and say no you cannot remarry no. You have to go nine months of pregnancy. It doesn't mean anything it's all in paper and it's all bs zet strike you anyway One hundred percent true. That would be the answer to your question. What kind of world do you wanna live in. And one of the answers. You're gonna have like five inches. One of them is we. I have to see you or that. I have to see a person birds after balance. That's a person absolutely and that is a person and the more in the more personal. I can make that the better off. I am like like no. I don't know if i'm speaking out of class but you had some medical issue and i showed you. Statistics that said ninety. Six percent of americans were insured in. You said what about x. And you explain your situation and it just was an offer me saying well. This was not covered in our medical insurance and in your medical insurance would have would have bankrupt so as accurate so there was a face. There was a face on that supposed- no problem. All of a sudden had a problem because one of my best friends was in deep trouble as a result. And i think that we can that as we do that as we go along or we put a face on it and we put a compassionate face and we put the compassion face of the christ on it. It's a whole different ballgame. it's a whole different ballgame. It's the same sort of thing where i can debate. I have all kinds of wonderful debates review about whether there's hunger run hunger. There's enough food and and i can start you wrong debating that and you haven't eaten days. I can't do that anymore. Now the point is there's a face there the point about my data is not relevant to the fact that first of all feedback and isn't that isn't that very biblical about is presumed. My other thing that i talk about is the soccer. The present moment is that were owner. What matters right now is in sacramento president. Talk to me about that. As as a sacrament. The sacrament means that this moment the ordinary is the hiding place for the holy and it's an op opportunity for me to affirm that holiness alive and well and you brilliantly said whatever and whatever gesture i make what you having a new caring kind louise's space listening even if i don't understand even if i don't agree i make that space. You sound like a favorite author frederick peak ner that's Much of that's what i'd be prime territory. A big yeah. Yeah but that's much of what he writes about so you know. Let's senate together wrap up but we do have sides. And i'm not talking just political side. We do have personal sides. We do have a tendency to support those with information that only engenders greater greater attribution to the side that we take and we are reluctant to look at other positions and evaluate them as perhaps very very meaningful positions and that. Perhaps one remedy is to win. You can personalise a position that position no longer becomes a position. It becomes a sacrament of the present moment. Yeah i'm gonna. Shout is very personal to me. Because i'm i'm i'm about to go to. The upper peninsula of michigan to my father died in october. But we couldn't go because of komo's is Permanent so we're going up. In the end of april scattered his ashes in place for he had requested by. I actually won a deer camp. Where i as a boy. So we'll be there in april of my siblings so I haven't siblings through. This is to your point discussion who. I don't believe. Kobe is real. It doesn't exist. There is no covert. they believe. Be wearing masks violation of every right to have a human being. they believe. see this polish. I'm telling you what they believe. And how they they believe that. Obviously the current president. Let's get the president for so this whole discussion today. Is i'm showing up there and rush the i. What do i do from the answer to. The question is what's for dinner. And what can i cook. And in perhaps huckabee honor down and tell me what you think about dad exactly where to troubled world we live in but i think conversations like this i think open conversations expression of of differences of opinion but at the same time and effort to understand where everyone else were someone else's coming from his so essential. I hope our listeners can grab some of that. Terry i thank you so much for your willingness to to explore such uncomfortable territories with me that are not easy answers and and yet they're just exploring. It is very kind of you to do to be willing to do that thank you. It's not uncomfortable from came out well and so it's you know what you do to pike as always dangerous. You know wondering who you're gonna take off but you know we have. We have not yet. i have to start with. I have to start with whatever i say. Someone will be pissed off. I start with that yet. And if they're not then. You haven't said anything worthwhile that i have to go back to. What did i mean to say. Why does it matter to me. And what kind of world do. I want to live it. Well said thank you brother. It's always always the delight. And i wanna thank all our listeners. Who tune into the next chapter with charlie and a really check out our website. You can get easy access to podcasts. And blogs and You'll find interesting and until next is always this. Is charlie hedges signing off by for now.

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