15 Episode results for "Catherine Greg"

Casey Sherman, author of Hunting Whitey: The Inside Story of the Capture & Killing of America's Most Wanted Crime Boss

The Gerry Callahan Podcast

55:11 min | 1 year ago

Casey Sherman, author of Hunting Whitey: The Inside Story of the Capture & Killing of America's Most Wanted Crime Boss

"I it's a special edition of Galahad but guest a weekend edition I got tucked to author Casey Sherman about his new book hunting Whitey. It's a story of the final days of the capture, and the the killing of what he bolger and it's excellent. I do not have just any old author on I try not to. Read the book, and if I like it I, wanted him on, and I read this book and I really liked it, and I finished it last night, and I called up Casey and We hooked up today, and I got I got all the answers. They got lots of questions. In case he gave all the answers. It's good in this day of. true crime stories to crime podcasts I feel like this is kind of a true crime podcast. This is a casey. Sherman the author of hunting Whitey everything you need to know about the capture and killing of Whitey Bolger. Is the Gerry Callahan podcast. joining us on the. Front Casey Sherman Author Casey Sherman author of All kinds of books, so kinds of good nonfiction books beginning I believe with the story of your aunt who was murdered by the Boston Strangler. Almost twenty years ago now that the book came out, so this is my thirteenth book and Your Magin that Jerry Wow thirteenth I can't I can't I can't imagine it because it looks like a lot of work, man a work and what a fun to. The fun part, but you gotta done, and I have to say. Mean I've read most of your books and looking at the list of certainly you know we all know about Boston strong, which was a better book than movie. The story and I agree. With that. I don't remember Superhero in the book in the move. You had a superhero in Mark Wahlberg but I. Guess that's what it took to get done. And the finest hours and excellent Book Anna very good movie the. Twelve, the inside story of Tom Brady's fight for redemption. Dating now. Out in September, so we've we've got some early Tuesday stories to share. In the season. Comes about this with the latest hunting Whitey the inside story, a of the capture and killing of America's most wanted crime boss, which you did with co-authored with gave wedge former, Herald, reporter and I have to central Jesus last night I just finished it a slow reader you got to you know month ago. It took me a while, but it is excellent. It is an excellent read and I have to give credit because. I have this skepticism going into this when I get the Belco when I read about heard about you working on this book? Day Wedge I had my doubts, and it's the same thing with the with the Brady book or with Boston. Strong I wonder if you can tell me anything I don't know I. Really Want I follow. The news closely read a bunch of books about Whitey. Bulger's in Boston crime. My friend Howie Carr is. Is The authority on this. And I read all his books and I'm thinking I don't case. He's a good reporter and wedge is a good report, but I'm not sure they'll be able to advance the story. I do you have that same kind of skepticism going in assure I mean it's one of the reasons why we didn't jump in and right. Awadhi Bolger Book because we didn't want to go over anybody else's material whether it's Howie or Shelley Murphy. We were kind of backing off of the Wadi Bulges story until we got murdered in two thousand eighteen, and then we each other, we said well, what about the years that he was on the Rock, and what happened to him in prison? What was life like then so once? We got our heads around that. That's the avenue we hope to take the readers of and I know you. Do you do a lot of work of interviews? A lot of digging and you did. Not only. Did you tell me things I didn't know which. Kept me interested throughout the book the You save the best for less and say this that. This is worth a book on its own. I mean you get into the life on the run, which is good his whole life with Katherine. Greg and Santa Monica all the places he went before he hit out in Santa Monica the capture. Excellent, but then you get his life back in prison, and his ultimate demise, which is gory, and it's almost reads like a novel I. Know How it's GonNa end I know he's going get murdered. But you tell the story that it felt like I was reading about. John Wilkes booth or Lee Harvey Oswald were you don't know that much. You say normal I. Know about the guy who got murdered, but I don't know that much, too, but the murderer and you introduce us to Freddie Gee, how do you say last night? He's ready. Jesus or the soft cheese. Freddie Jesus which. As you know as an author reporter when you can bring people introduce people to a new character kind of evil. Not puree volleys, family guy, but he's a mob guy and he's a hit managed killer, and you get to meet Freddie gifts. Jesus and that you must have felt like this. Is something new this worthy of a book? Yeah, you know when we first got access to Freddie. Jesus daughter Taylor in how she introduced herself to us, and we started to interview her over time to get a little bit about. About Freddie's background in Springfield Massachusetts and then suddenly Freddie is writing US letters from solitary confinement at Misery Mountain. That's the place where he murdered. Whitey, Bulger in his writing us in rubber, tipped pencils because the guards give them anything sharp because they're afraid, he'll jab himself in the neck or kill a guard. Mean that's how close we got through the to the real source avoidable just murdering this book. And a obviously, it's lamb and we knew we kind of go to the store they beat him with. A sock full of coins is that correct? There was a it was a padlock in a sock and there was. A lot of rumors that came out right after the murder that he'd been castrated. That has is Zora gouged out. None of that is true but he was beaten so badly over the. Is that anybody that was looking into his cell from a distance what would have believed that his eyes had been taken how but he? He got what he deserved it ultimately at the end of the day. You know it's it's it's. One of the FBI agents that we follow in the book. Charlie Jian Turco, who carried that first leg in the relay race defined what he bulge. You're you know when I? When we discussed bulger's murder, he said you know what you live by the sword, and then you die by the sword, and then he says no screw that makes ball just seeing valiant. Was a slog. Here's a killer of women in got what he deserved that that is true, and that's one thing that stays consistent, and in not just in your book and every book every story about him I mean the the Robin Hood Myth died years ago. Although, you do revisit it with a priceless. Mike Barnicle extra article. Absolutely I highlighted that and laughed out loud. A Barnacle said he ripped off the lottery lottery on the lottery Barnacle, said he probably donate to the church. God wanted a Baris- meant. That is seen it in print again. Just remind you of what a fraud he was. And what a joke! The Globe is a, but there is a feeling throughout your book and every I mean we forget sometimes but Whitey Bolger was pure evil, even in the end even attitude in court I mean he just was a real sinister, dark human being until the end correct them. Until the end, but you know it's funny. You know we. We really followed what he bald. You're on his line and winter phase of his life, so his body's breaking down, but he still believes that could take anybody out in any any room yet. You know we get to a place where he's in prison, inmates in the yard, trying to steal the sneakers because they think he's just some old feeble clown in a in a wheelchair, but he but he's a he's an ordinary bastard as as a prisoner getting in arguments with prison nurse, saying that her day of reckoning is coming, which ultimately led? The prison warden in Florida the second prison that he was in to upgrade is health status ship them over to misery mountain, or he didn't last twelve hours, and misery moans in Hazelton, West. Virginia's Altun West Virginia the. Worst. You literally say that the warden through them to the wolves. Do you think it was by design? Do you think someone somewhere said this scumbag killed at least nineteen people, probably many many more killed women in a rip their teeth out. He was a pedophile. He was just the worst of the worst you think. A decision was made at some level I, mean you don't say this explicitly, but. You leave, leave US wonder leave. The Rita's wondering if somebody said, let's pro him to the wolves. Let's let let's let street justice or prison justice take its. Take over here. I mean that that would be a great Hollywood. Ending to the story, but honestly I think and Dave Wedge Moscow author. We think it was a happy accident that the warden in Florida was was very close. Friends Wink, wink, nod, nod with the prison nurse and once Bulger's starts to threaten this woman. He's like you're out of here and I'm GonNa send you to the worst. The employee's also. He didn't even care I don't believe. There's no evidence that we found. That would back up a theory that this was a decision made on high. Send Bolger to. To Hazelton. However you know that investigation is still ongoing, but you know we talk to guards that were in inside with Freddie Ge with Whitey Bolger and they didn't feel like it was A. Conspiracy at at a high level here you know Freddie Jesus. It just so happened. He served time with Freddie. White braintree gangster who is set up for murder that he didn't commit Whitey. Bulger put that guy in prison for thirty years, so Freddie Jesus had heard all these stories about what a scumbag wide bolger was from freeway shall and sure enough here comes Whitey. Bulger, who's in his same prison, served up on on a you know a silver platter, and Jesus is that old school gangster and he's he's a guy that. That he's an honorable killer, if if there ever was one, and he just wanted to exact some type of retribution on behalf of one of his good friends, yeah, you, you point to as where you is. What you guys did so well as it introduces us to a gangster and you do it, you know completely thoroughly. Tell us all about his family. His background is record how you know how he went from. Everyone goes bad at some point when they become gangsters and I. Know I'm not alone I know. People love this. People love when they read a book. Gangsters in the hear the whole story of where how they evolve into this monster. Who was you know? Become a contract killer or become a a lifer in prison now bashing people with with socks with padlocks in. And historic was great, but he's. He's the feeling I got at the end that that I loved. Is that Bolger for most of you know my life? Yours got away with everything. Right got away with everything he even even when they were closing in even when they had the case made, and he was going to prison, like like Fleming and everyone else, he got tipped off. He got away. He was a fugitive for how long sixteen? Years Living on the ocean and California may not the greatest flight, but he was free until his golden years. But when it all said and done, he paid a higher price than many of his cohorts I mean got away with everything he he'd kill them, but in the end he's in prison and they're stealing his sneakers because he's in a wheelchair and they're abusing him hell. He got busted in prison for masturbated. And it was humiliating he had to like defend themselves and say no I can't even do that anymore. I'm too old and I'm saying. This in a way is justice. I mean this guy. He can handle prison. He's been Alcatraz. He can certainly handle. Himself in the prison yard when he was younger, but he can't handle this being sent to totalitarian confinement for masturbating. His honor and dig. Away along with his life and what we learn when he first is convicted of the nineteen murders when he gets shipped to Arizona there's an attempt on his life there. He gets stabbed in the skull, and almost almost kilt, and he strikes up a friendship with a one of the inmates there that we interviewed for the book and now one of the great things about this book in the Access we got is you're hearing really from Whitey Bolger from the grave seventy letters that that he wrote. wrote his own hand that a lot of that information we put in the book. Are you really hearing from Whitey Bulger for the first time? And he tells this fellow prisoner, you know. He thought he was going to get prison, but when they give it to me I hope they give it to me. Quick because I gave it quick. Well I wouldn't call two minutes a lifetime, but two minutes of being beat over the head and shoulders with a padlock in a sock. Bulger didn't even get. Get Out of his bunk. Bolger didn't even have breakfast that next morning. He got beat to death. But you point out that he was looking like like so many people had looked in his eyes before absolutely me, which is great, you know I mean you think about Debbie Davis and Deborah Hussy, and some of these so-called innocent victims of Bulger's reign of terror. In what what were what were their last? You know was going through their mind when Balder was closing in on them I, hope he. He felt the same terror and fear that they did well I'm glad to hear you say that it is disturbing like in every book of read about him in the gang is how others like in Amman Toronto on around twelve years. I believe for twenty murders twelve years for twenty murders per for twenty more Bannon, and it's just that's just disgusting. It's nauseating and death fascinating. It also pissed off. Bulging bulbous was so angry that you know Martorana the tip of the spear had gotten twelve years. Here he was about to get life in prison, and he was more disgusted about all the prison time Catherine. Greg was was about to say right. There is a weird love story between Katherine in Whitey that is toll throughout the book from Bulgur, and through these letters buzzer was certainly somebody that hated women, but at the end of his. Fugitive life. You really leaned on Catherine Brig. who could have escaped at any time? but Catherine had always wanted to be the main squeeze so to speak in these life beyond Theresa Stanley as common law wife. First woman he went on the run winds in here. She is finally. She gets this guy on on her own and then. Scott Gary all of the special agent from the FBI just lures bald. You're out of that apartment on that day in nine years ago this month. It's great that you you guys did a great job of capturing that the whole process, the painstaking process of moving on him, and luring him out of the apartment, which was just full of guns, loaded guns, and they lowered him out, and they nabbed them in the garage to take a Nina. Pull oil and take him in Caffeine Greg is his girlfriend was on the with a multi. She never taught correct. She was senior talk. Through her lawyer Kevin Ryton to try to get her to talk, and and she just she talk and I don't think she'll ever tell her tail. She's that classic gangster. Mall will always stick by her man. One way or the other, but the FBI agents. Investigate, or interviewed rather for the the, but it's a coupon. Keep an eye on her. For the next couple of years in anybody that was close to Whitey bulger because what he bolger took off with about thirty million bucks, and they were only able to fine less than a million, so their safety deposits out there somewhere with that. Catherine Greg potentially knows where they are and also. In a halfway house across, you know, she lives with a Whitey bulger's nephew. Billy Mater Sung. Speaking knowing where the thirty million as you guys had some exclusive interviews including I, think the one with Billie Bolger Whitey's contemptible, loathesome brother, who helped Whitey when he was on the run paid no price. He's still collecting A. Two hundred, million, two, hundred, thousand plus per year pension I'm he's just a vile human being in my opinion, but you got to sit down with them. Does he feel any guilt at all helping? Whitey the serial killer row now. We've ever since that. He didn't really feel any remorse you know gave. Conducted that interview with building just knocked on his. In one day billy opened it now, billy never open this door so the FBI agents that were knocking on the door regularly throughout the entire manhood, but allow Dave in a they spoke for over an hour all on the record, and billy felt I guess he wanted to tell his version of growing up with Bolger Bulger, but you know we. Juxtaposed Billy's interview in the book with the FBI agents. Let's say he should be in a in a prison cell along with his brother. They have no. Can you know? Contempt for this guy. There's no. There's no question I mean it's. It's disgusting a think he's. Obviously the president of the Senate, and then ahead of U. Mass, join this huge public chick and living in south by the way where his brother you know, had this reign of terror for decades there he surrounded by people's lives were ruined, whose family members died of drug overdoses or were murdered. By bulger's gang, any feels no remorse, and in fact, at least in one occasion you know, took a secret phone call from from Whitey in an effort and obvious effort to allow his brother to remain free it I know. That was the one occasion that the FBI. Knew about what they didn't know. About was other instances where Whitey bulger would buy a car for cash and drive from Santa. Monica California all the way to the mid West. To Detroit Michigan to call his brother, and he would speak to bill, and this is. This is what Whitey Bolger had told. Inmate? Best friend while he was imprisoned that they had almost near regular contact with each other Catherine Greg was certainly calling her sister Margaret, mccusker almost on a on a regular interval and from Greg. When he when she left with Whitey she left her two poodles behind, and there's a weird relationship between Catherine and her sister Barbara, because Margaret had the two poodles euthanized. Didn't show bottom. You can imagine what that was like that first conversation they had A. Killing the killing everything for. Whatever dogs but I I? Certainly. Don't make the Bolger. Family seem sympathetic. visiting the prison there visiting there were in the court is brother Jackie and other disgraced former hack. There now or maybe they're not. They had one point sued for two hundred million. because. Why did you get killed in? Prison is still pending. That's still pending hang, Brennan, who was co counsel for Whitey, Bolger in the criminal case. He's representing the family in that case, so we'll see where that goes, but again you imagine the family, the gall of the bulger family to sue the federal, Bureau of Prisons for two hundred million dollars. For Whitey, bulger's murder. If they get it all, that money should go directly to Bulger's victims. It's true I mean you're talking about a guy who killed at least nineteen, probably many many more he he was eighty, nine eighty nine years old, eighty nine. That's way too old way too old I mean if he should have met is is in decades earlier. They're lucky he's lucky. He lasted as long as he did I mean do do the people. People in the FBI you talked to lots of including by the way Andrew McCabe. Yes, about that to they did. They feel silly like they've thought initially was obviously gone before nine eleven could have gone anywhere in the world after that he was in Louisiana. He traveled a lot, but there he wasn't a pretty open place. You know hiding in plain sight in Santa Monica there been a sighting of him in San Diego in a movie theater. Feel like they were they didn't. They missed something in that each state on the Lam for so long. Yeah, I do feel that way I think you know when we cover all the misfires as well and you look at it as a kind of a relay race. You know a few FBI. Agents took the case early. You know made some real grievous mistakes. That allowed Bulger to slip through the news in here. He is living point eight miles from the San Santa Monica, police department Dave and I were the only. Journalists access inside of Bulger's apartment, which was a real weird feeling long gone, but the ghost of Bolger seemed to be still there, but with the st where the gun I mean. We knew we cut the wall and put the Guy Absolutely. Plastered over, but they didn't do a very good job. Remodeling the inside in Bolger. Slept in the in the back bedroom days, Catherine and wine. You never shared a bedroom together because bolger would wake up at night, screaming because of all of these LSD experiments that he had participated in. The. Young woman whose teeth he ripped up because no, no, no, because correct but. It is you know there? There is something to say about turning a criminal into a kind of a super villain you know and I and I do think that the M. K. Ultra program certainly must have played a role in that audience upward two thousand LSD hits without your mind being altered in some crazy way, it just obviously made Bolger. You know the real, a homicide killer that eventually game right I. mean the the life on the Lam. At least in Santa Monica was pretty uneventful. You would say that there wasn't may maybe that's why he remained free. Because do so careful and he didn't do much, and they didn't They were very under the radar. He was very careful. Careful and I think the only time that I think. There was a threat on his life when he was walking with Catherine. Beyond the Santa Monica Pier One night when they were almost. A stuck up for money or a you know a robber with a nice, but bolger was strapped everywhere. He went showed. The Guy has gone in. The Guy ran away and Bolger I love the fact that he's a huge fan of Hollywood, so he recites these great wines from gangs. and. Bulger allegedly said to this guy. You never bring a knife to a gunfight. You can hear Sean Connery saying that same line in the touchable. Bolger didn't have A. An original thought in his head, the the story of how they got him. Obviously you go into it extensively in very good detail, but. Basically comes to this. The FBI took out a TV commercial. Would you say that led to the yeah well I mean what happened. WAS THEY I love the fact that Bulger was an you know. He had hatred toward women treated. You know Catherine like Dart and killed at least two women that we know of so here comes a female FBI. Agent named Noreen gleason and she's looking around the Boston FBI, agent seeing people kind of down in the. The dumps and they've lost their wilted to go on, and she says we're not going to get done with this crew. I need to bring in some heavy hitters fugitive hunters from around the country and we've been looking for the wrong person. We've been looking for ten years for Whitey Bulger. We need to start looking for Catherine Greg and if we signed her. We're going to find him so, but they had those old grainy surveillance photographs of Catherine Greg. The. Tipster let them know that Katherine. Greg head numerous cosmetic surgeries, boob job, Rhino Plastic. You name it. She had it so then. They started to really canvas all of these. Plastic surgery operations around the Boston area and finally found. Her surgical practice and that practice had these full close up photographs of Catherine Grey, so they created their own public service announcement for the very first time in the FBI history that they done this and they wanted the American public. Do believe that Catherine was in fear for her life. You know on the run with this chiller women, so they put together a commercial they. They aired it in markets all around the country that they could afford that. That they believe why. We might be hiding out in the one market they couldn't advertise in was La because they couldn't afford. But it was such an anomaly for the FBI to create its own ad that it became a news story unto itself so CNN picked it up the BBC picked it up and all of a sudden. There's a woman in Um Iceland who was a former neighbor of Charlie and Carol Gasco their aliases and she leaves three. Messages on the FBI's a voicemail via email and another form saying not only do I know where they are. I know who they are, and that's ultimately what led the FBI divulge her? Did she get the two million? She did get the two million and a great part in the book where Scott Areola, he's an FBI agent out in La a brilliant fugitive under he's on vacation with his kids, and he gets a buzz on on his cell phone, a text saying bulge assiting Santa Monica. Give us a call back. He looks at his phony almost deletes it or says this is somebody I'm on. Vacation was like what the? The Hell I'll I'll see what this is, so they revealed that it's a tipster in Iceland. And Belgium says well who took the tip and it was a US marshal that adjoined the bulge task force that eventually talked to this tipster in Iceland and Gary. All goes well I. Don't really like US marshals. I WanNa talk to her myself, so she gets. He gets on the phone with her in dialogue, and he says how you know. How much do you believe that this is why you your Caffeine Greg that we're looking for? And she goes well. I'm not one hundred percent shore. It's that I'm two hundred percent sure right. She was relentless and she deserves the money, and then they got gary. Gut Department manager the manager of the apartment building to help by telling him that he could get the were award Greg. Fifty grand, the fifty grand for Greg was still available, so he said I'll. I'll do that, so they set up a ruse where they told them the locker, his locker in the garage had been broken into, and they broke the lock and made it look like someone had broken it, and they told billy at Whitey. Asked. Why come on down check it out? Because someone broken, it was locker Whitey was very paranoid and cautious, but he's still went down the elevator by himself, and as he's walking to his locker, they nabbed him. They nab him in for the first time. Bolger actually. Chronicles that event himself in his letter. We have a letter from Whitey Bolger where he describes his own arrest in a second that he got down to to the garage, he knew something was up and he almost You know. He was afraid that the FBI was gonNA take them out at that at that very moment. because. He refused to kneel in a bottle of oil. They sell the oil correct. He said you could shoot me, but I'm not kneeling down in oil. And then. A neighbor stumbles upon this whole scene, and she's been told for years that Charlie gas goes got Alzheimer's. So this Alzheimer's patient surrounded by the FBI and she starts yelling at the FBI so spot, Gary. All the agent is thinking Oh my God. Did we get the wrong guy and Bulge chirps? You know I'm James Leaping. Bolger in! She's Ethin- craze. Don't listen to her. You've got the right guy and not. Why did James Jimmy Bulging Chat? Show some respect and call them Jimmy. Did the apartment manager get the fifty grand for Catherine Greg I don't know. Gary All. He was kind of you know he was. He was spitballing at the time he had to make. This arrest happened I'm not sure this kid got a red cent. How strange was it? Did, it or you did it sitting down with Andrew McCabe while it was, it was it was unusual. You know I. I did the interview with with Andrew, but you know there was a big. This, obviously well, the whole trump thing was going on and I actually met him on the Cape while he was there for an event and we you know we really didn't get into the trump issues. stuffy was dealing with. I wanted to really focus solely on what bulger's arrest meant to the bureau, and obviously it had a rippling effect throughout. The entire euro, but just just because it lifted the stain of corruption at least on the Boston office. It is the most maddening thing in every bolger story I. Read Every Book. Just like when Donahue and Bucky Barrett could taken out. do I. Have that Right Barrett. Barrett was going to flip. He was going to testify. The FBI tells bolger indirectly and they kill him, and it's then that was repeated over and over like anyone. That was even a hint of like Deborah of Deborah Hussy. Would? They were afraid she would talk killer. That's how we handle everything just potential that someone might rat on him. Meanwhile, he's reading on everybody and you're saying. Can you imagine thinking if I go to the FBI I'll be safe ago the FBI tell them you know whatever runaway go in I'll be safe. You go to the FBI and signing your death warrant. It she's not corruption. You think of corruption guys taking payoffs. That's one thing they took. Payoffs God knows from vulgar and Flamy, but setting up people who are trying to do the right thing is the most maddening part of the whole Bolger story in my opinion, oh. That's why you know in my opinion. John Connolly is serving life imprisonment Florida. It's not enough I mean. He should have been given the death penalty for for what he did I think of him though, and he's every day waking up in a Florida prison. I'm not sure if they got air conditioning, but he is I, it's he's not. He's not doing well. put it out a long road to hoe for him and I. Think about that every day to you know and it's interesting because again the FBI agents that we. Interviewed for the book, they were basically hunting bigfoot about know in the mid two thousands, and they were thinking. You know we don't know who is Baltimore is never met John Ethnic Conley yet every every case we are involved in that gets thrown in our faces every day, so we're going to go and find this bastard once and for all, and ultimately that's what they do. You I got a bone to pick with the you call. Whitey a trump supporter, but don't provide any evidence I'm not saying he wasn't just asking. Where's the proof? Okay well. That was interviews that we've conducted with one of his. With his neighbors and one of his neighbors did tell us he was a firm supporter, so we do have that on record. Wedge of my Very Liberal Co author. Trump. Pay. Doctor that that interview so I think he kinda slip that in there. So you know. Think of it what you will you mentioned? The unfinished memoirs of of of Bolger are out there somewhere. Will we ever see them I'm sure you find? You tried to get a hold of them and you probably should. And we think that a family member may have them right now, but again. What is it going to reveal? We feel like we're we've already published bulges memoirs because you know. They're in seventy letters that that he had written and Bolger. Always glorified is on accents, which is one of the reasons why he would not meet with Johnny Depp when Johnny Depp was making black mass. We've got a information the book where Bolger's describing. The of the filmmakers for blackness, constantly reaching out to Jay Carney his attorney, trying to get a sip out, but though the version of ball during black now so obviously was he is Irap. He is a government informant and bulging never wanted to see himself that way. He wanted to see himself. As you know, I wasn't getting in forgiving. Information I was getting information, so if the manuscripts out there, it is going to be that Robin Hood bullshits. He's been selling for decades. BARNICLE CO author the story when Emmy still around it is amazing when you go through the trial, and you have some great detail about the trial and him swearing in his outbursts in court, but everybody in the end turns on them, I mean weeks Martorana everybody turns on them he in the end. The portrait, the depiction from Barnacle, and the globe from others, and from his family members like billy. Is such bullshit. He's he's just. The is a rat. He's an he's an. A just a terrible human being treated everyone like dirt, and you could tell the that nobody felt any sympathy. Nobody had any interest in protecting them at all at all besides his family. You know and that. Will Not as he is, but they're. They're a bunch of rotten people anyway, but sure. But, but I will say that. That's one of the reasons why we wanted to write. This book is because you know. Here's a gang that doesn't get the opportunity to write off into the sunset or in his mind. He was telling the FBI investigators on the long flight from. La Boston that if he'd note knew he had a terminal disease, he was going to throw his body down A. Deserted mine shaft in Nevada just to keep that mystery going for as long as he possibly could, he didn't get that opportunity. He got beaten to death in prison. Everybody turned against him and he you know He. He got what he deserved that ultimately. Do you think there's? Two questions do think we'll ever. They'll ever recover the thirty million or any of it, and do you think the stories over now? Do you think you guys have written the final chapter? Well I? Think we're going to have to see what happens with the investigation to the US Bureau of Prisons. Think that'll happen before the money ever recovered, but you gave, and I will continue to kind of dig at the story and hopefully provide some updated information. Comes out in the paperback. I don't think any of the money is going to be recovered anytime soon. I think whoever knows where those safety deposit boxes are. They're gonNA sit on it for a while and then when the coast is clear. Maybe they'll go. Try to find it. You know other than Catherine Greg. Who could that be Jackie Bolger. Who Do you think has I mean I mean I I'm only speculating air. It would have to be Jackie or billy. Those are the only two that he really confided and I would say he can find it in billy more than he confided in. Brother Sharp Jackie? And Billy. At least Jackie paid a price. At least he got it at once. Billy Bill. Is GonNa, go to his grave, and they'll probably live forever. The the people like him. People rotten to the core like him seem to last a while We'll see you know. His wife just passed away about two weeks ago. Mary, so we'll, we'll see what happens to billy next. but you know he'll take the secrets to his grave. He's just like white. Why that was an interesting? Anecdote that he wanted to throw his body down a mine shaft, so no one would ever find him, and we would all wonder you know. He's still alive like. would be wondering for decades of be still alive at a couple of things before I let you go Casey Sherman I I wanna read. The there's some funny parts of this this obviously some colorful characters, but this I actually made a note. The funniest part of the book here is Is Mike Barnicle in the Boston Globe by Illinois? Let's face it. I'M NOT GONNA pass up to bash the globe, and this was their lead columnist after Whitey scammed his way into a lottery, Jackpot. We're not sure how he did it. He threatened somebody. You got a hold of a winning lottery ticket and the Michael writes layoff Jimmy Belcher calls them Jimmy. We only family members, and you know subordinates in the mob called. Called Jimmy, but not bark bark has no shame. He says for the first time in his life Bulge got lucky legitimately, and won the lottery knowing him, he probably already handed out money to saint. Augustine's figure that when he goes, and the odds are better than winning mass millions there will be some people left behind. It will say not a bad guy, not a bad guy. He's not a bad guy. Can you believe that? Later Dan Kennedy that fraud journalists. Journalism professor from north? Yeah, he. He called it satire. That was just Mike Barnacles. Use of satire in a ball, just kidding. About two frauds. But that's that's what you got from the Boston. Globe one of the reasons why I think the you know the crime spree, the the the reign of terror last as long as it did. Obviously, the FBI was instrumental. Is Brother Billy protected him? We know all those, but so does the globe. He had a great pr firm which the Boston Globe. At the time. You know we'll mcdonagh. Another we'll be who was close friends with. Bulge, so you know to them? He was James Cagney and Robin. Hood wrapped up in. You know together disgusting. I, think back. It's disgusting I mean I. Know People like you and me and how we kind of were ahead of the curve on this, but there was a time when people in a mainstream newspaper. was spending a guy who was ripping the t killing young. How old was Deborah? Davis when she to. Twenty two year, old woman, killing a rip, not torturing or killing riveter teeth out and burying her body in a shallow grave. That guy was not a bad guy. Of Boston Globe that is disgusting. I before I. Let you I one other question just for my own. I'm wondering I have a weird thing going on now. Where some days I can read I could focus and other days. I can't take my eyes off the TV or the computer. Because you know, let's be honest. The whole is on fire right now. We're GONNA apocalypse and I was wondering when you first sent me this book and told me about it. I said I couldn't decide whether it was a really good time. Bad time out of work. Because people have time, but their minds are you know occupied with the the you know the downfall of Western civilization I. My answer to that and I'll get yours would be. The pandemic is one thing I read during the pandemic, but when you combine it with the insurrection, it was hard for me to focus on anything other than the you know the the the apocalypse. Well, publisher made a calculated decision to release it during the pandemic. Because that's what we thought the only thing we thought we would be dealing with is people with a lot of time on their hands that were starving for content, and then the world gets turned upside down. By I mean every week. It seems to be a new sign of the pockets, so know fortunately for us. The book sales have been doing great, but this bookstores you know many of them aren't even still open yet. Read suffer us because we can't go in sign books like we normally would at the Barnes and nobles. They don't even have enough stock. For us to go in and make it worthwhile, so we hope that people continue to define the book in we'RE GONNA turn the book into a limited series because we feel like there's enough information in storyline there to spread this story out over eight hours as opposed to ninety minutes in a black mass or a departed. If you will I think again, it's just I mean if you think you know it all about vulture and lots of people like around at least around New England, think they. They, do you're wrong? Because you guys did a great job of UH, of of describing and telling the whole story of his demise whether it, you know the capture than the predominant prison, then the trial and the best part is the murder because you get to meet all kinds of new wiseguys, one little funny moment in the book that I just remembered as Bolger sends a letter to chip Janice is a prison buddy and he says bogus. Say hello to all my friends for me. He has no friends. Say. Who Me? In the end of this guy's got no friends and no family. You know he's. He had one kid who died. I guess he sort of had a girlfriend or had another common law wife, but they were probably more fearful of than anything and we'll. We'll friends the guys. He spent his life with turned on him so. Other than his disgusting loathsome family really had nobody, which is how you should how it should work when you're evil like he was, he died along died and pain S. yes, he looking up at a guy, was bashing his skull in with a sock full of with a padlock. Lock each side. It But I before I let you go I I'm always curious what you're going to work on next because you guys come up with some good ideas and. even if the story's been done before, you can take it to another level. Hey, homeowners! Did you know that my brother-in-law Greg has a huge selection of pre cast concrete steps whether you're building a new home or you need to replace an old stash? It has great values designs for any home, available in concrete or customized with beautiful stone, granite and brick a new staircase. Can dramatically upgrade the front entrance of your home. In most cases they can remove your old stairs and have you walking up your new front steps within hours? SHAPE provides lunch and learns get lunch, and you get to learn from engineers and contractors and one of their plants or at their office. Shea Manufacturers of variety of pre cast concrete products. Make sure you contact them. Contact Greg as for Greg. For any of your pre cast, concrete product knees in contact them at shake concrete dot com. You answer me I have a suggestion for. Free next book, it would be nonfiction I promise you. It'd be a huge bestseller. It would be topical and I would I for one with thoroughly enjoyed his my suggestion unauthorized biography of Alan Dershowitz. I would love to, and you know I've been going back and forth with a piece of. you know. I wrote about him in the Herald and he rebutted me in the herald the and I. Trust me, he is, he's on the list. I would love to tear him down. You know in, you know. He's carrying himself down every day, but. This guy is one of the most vile human beings in opinion. That's ever walked the earth. I will give you credit because there's a reason. Not More people do not criticize like you do and you know the reason. He is the most litigious human being on Earth Hell. He just wrote a book defending himself against the charges from one of Jeffrey. Epstein's Harum and I. You know I- Dershowitz claimed that he went to Epstein's mansion for a massage. A House a House that's full of pictures of naked young girls in the walls, and he just went there for you know a therapeutic massage that story falls apart quickly, but I would say Casey. You would have a lot of material. Probably be able to find a lot of people to interview and he would sue the hell out of you know no matter what could be all one hundred percent right, but he would say and you know if you're in the right, it would only help I mean the guy wouldn't be able to help himself he would. Would help you promote it sure. No I don't care and I think it's a brilliant idea. One that I've been giving a little thought to just kind of needling him every opportunity chance I get just because I like it I even asked him I said. What are you going to be on the vineyard I'll I'll meet you on the venues, and just you know, shouted to in a crowded restaurant of all the lives you destroyed. You know during your lifetime I got a better idea. I'm telling you I'm going to be your Agen on this project. You meet them on the vineyard at the Nude beach that he hanging. Out Great. I can't use picture. Alan Dershowitz there with a t shirt. Nothing else just bought him from the waist down baking sun over bald. Why did it? Why do you hate him so well? Just because you know, I mean especially with the Epstein case you know how many young lives that he just destroyed and that's really what would would would tip the iceberg for me. I always thought he was vile and a self promoter and just. Human being, but when you get underage girls involved when you look at them, and in your job is to tear them down I. Keep saying. How do you sleep at night now? If, that's if that's your goal in life then you're not somebody that. Deserves the title you have. And he's and he's eighty I. mean like I said sometimes the the bad ones last forever, Sir these ATV still out there. He wants a book like every three weeks and he's. Now, he's you know on trump's side, so he's get more airtime more facetime than ever because he's fighting for for trump against all his old. Colleagues. He's kind of made a whole new Three hundred thousand twitter followers. He's on twitter all day, and they just bashed the hell on twitter so I love reading the comments you know on my lunch break just. Put a big smile on my face I would. See I. Mean that's. Is. That's. David Harland. Up We're just finished a new book with James. Patterson on John Lennon so it's the last days of John Lennon's life, which will come out on the fortieth anniversary of his assassination, and we interviewed Paul, McCartney. We interviewed everybody around him. You know and it's. It's just really twisted story of not only Mark David Chapman, the killer but John and Yoko at that time, so even people that don't like the Beatles. I'm a big Beatles Fan but I. Think people will get something from it because it's a really unusual tale. That sounds excellent. You bring in James Patterson just to sell books I. Mean He doesn't actually type anything. Does he know well? We Co off the book with James Mattis. James's a great guy. I'M GONNA Guess Casey Dave, which did most of the type and on that one, but understand by the way James Patterson. Did A book about Epstein. And left Clinton out of it completely unknown. If you're wear this little. Bit Off off Scot Free, and then his next book was with Bill. Clinton, so I have some questions for you knew Buzzy, but he addison by the way. Big Story I shouldn't say story today. One of those you know twitter stories. Coming out ABC's got it. There's a movement now to change the national anthem along with everything else in our history books and statues and the national anthem they want. You know what it is. Imagine there's no country. So they WANNA make imagine the new national anthem, a song about getting rid of countries and borders and you Lenin. Wouldn't even like that you know. I mean Leonard was a cynical bastard in many ways and I. You know getting to know him a little bit through the research of the book actually like the more after the research that I did going into life. He would not like that idea at all you. You said it's not coming out to the remember sitting watching Monday night football with my father when they when Howard cosell announced the murder, so that was when November December that were that was December eight, thousand, nine hundred eighty are out December seventh in we go. We got an interview with the ABC News Producer. This guy named Alan Weiss. WHO said that information up to the booth where Howard cosell eventually told a world that Lennon was? Assassinated and this guy had just been involved in a motorcycle accident in Central Park in. He's in the Er when John Lennon wielding. We also interviewed the surgeon that was massaging. John Lennon's heart trying to get a heartbeat, but ultimately Lennon died in a sense and I know he lives with one hundred year old mother, but did you go and knock on mark? David Chapman's door now Mark David Chapman. Is he still in prison and made was getting. John Hang Quick Oh I'm sorry. But. There is a convenience mixed up. Yeah! John Hinckley was actually at the massive vigil in Central Park days after Lennon's murder and Later shot shot Reagan. Yeah Wow so mark David Chapman's in prison. I'm sure it's easy time. He's not like in maximum security or anything. Did you He's Wendy upstate, not actually. He's an upstate New York. We made several attempts. We wrote him and he just wouldn't do it and I think he's probably got a deal with somebody you know spills the beans again. you know the the week of of the anniversary, but we go into Chapman it. What a what a freak show! That guy was what all the all the bells and whistles were there. He was firing off sirens. For for months, if not years about killing John, Lennon and nobody took him seriously. Wow, that sounds excellent I like I. Say you guys? Come up with good ideas. Some people come up with good ideas and they can't execute them. You guys come up with good ideas and yet execute him, and this certainly qualifies for Latte. Hunting Whitey the inside story of capture and killing of America's most wanted crime boss. I would say you pull it off case he can greg. Really appreciate it Jerry. Thanks to so much excellent read. You know needed, but I wish you luck and I assume A. Assume you're on the go in the movie. Rights with someone as we speak correct while we're looking at you know. Bryan Cranston Ed Harris Woody Harrelson. You know realize. Yeah, yeah, we're. We're having some some discussions right now. As the WHO's GonNa? Play him the in the in the miniseries. Opposite Helen Mirren as Catherine Greg Wa. Role the way to see you. Know we're producing the. We're producing it and we may be onset. We may be in the. In the series in some seen, but I doubt. Excellent, well Good Luck Casey. Good job I appreciate a thank you. Why do you the inside story of the capture and killing of America's most wanted crime boss I gotTa Say I. Got The book and I was a little skeptical. I felt like I might read it and not learn a whole lot like I said of read everything I mean it's. It's good if you don't know anything about. Whitey is really good. Because you're GONNA, learn a lot, but I was afraid I wouldn't learn anything I. Don't like reading books I felt like I know everything of learned everything. Rid It all before and a red, all Howie, Carr stuff and. I read black masked by the globe. Guys and saw the movie and these guys to a great job. I mean there's new details throughout the book about Whitey's life, and in his life of crime in Boston, and all the murders and all the details, but then and then it really gets kind of revealing, because you learn all about his life on the run with Catherine Greg and where they went, and who they met, and how they managed to avoid capture and detection, and then they settle in Santa Monica and they feed stray cats, and which leads to their captured by the way feeding stray cats I won't give it all away. but they get. Then they go through the trial. And all the whiteys friends turn on him, and then he goes to prison and he's been. He gets flown all over the country. Arizona's and Florida ends up in West Virginia. At this place called Misery Mountain Hazelton. West Virginia were they know everybody they say to? People don't survive in Hazleton in misery, mountain, pedophile and rats, and there's a bunch of mobsters. They're doing hard time. Some of whom have no tolerance for rats including this cleanest Guy Freddie. Freddie Jesus is a springfield mobster. Casey Sherman Dave. Wedge introduce you to him and his whole family. They spent a Lotta time with his daughter. The guys like a normal family guide. For a while, but then he. Goes real bad starts you know killing people for the mob and he waits. Let's. Let's Whitey settle in for twelve hours. He gets into this new prison. Is There for twelve hours? Early enough time to meet his roomy roommate takes a walk. Whitey's alone in his cell and on video they could see Freddy in another guy. Big Paulie. go in there with their socks. The more padlock and a sock just beat the hell. OUTTA Whitey they don't rip is is out, but they do bash them in, and it's a just and fair and appropriate end. To this guy's what eighty years of of crime eighty seventy something years of ruining lives of destroying families of destroying Selfie of dealing drugs of Pedophilia and murder and rape and torture and. Just the most contemptible human being ever any any any dies as he should in misery in pain in agony. It's good I mean it's too bad. Billy, Bolger and the rest of this bolger client has gotten away with so much over the years, but. Why did he didn't what he did not go off into the sunset and live happily ever after which is a good thing, but these guys do an excellent job of Kinda doing that like I, said appeared to. You feel like you know everything about Lincoln everything above JFK, and then you learn about. The the plot to kill them. You know there's a great book about. John Wilkes boosts time on the run called manhunt, excellent, but very suspenseful things. You didn't know about John. Wilkes booth, and how we get away for a while and I was on the run. That's what this feels like feels like the last chapter and I didn't know all the details about the last chapter this is. A whole story of how it all ended for Whitey. And it's a happy story in a good story. Hunting Whitey. Sherman Day, witch Thanks Casey. Thanks, to colony of special edition, a bonus weekend edition of the Callahan podcast I'm Jerry. Kelly and I will talk you again Monday morning. Why am I stopping you? No one else stops. I don't I? Can I go home? Good Gerry Callahan podcast.

Whitey Bolger Billie Bolger Whitey Whitey Bulger FBI Catherine Greg Boston Billy murder Casey Sherman Freddie Jesus Santa Monica bolger Catherine US Casey Katherine Florida Freddie Robin Hood Billy Bill
An Abundance of Todds and the End of Big Oil

Safe Space

24:35 min | 2 years ago

An Abundance of Todds and the End of Big Oil

"There's always. Welcome to say space, a weekly podcast about the news politics. Pop culture and anything else that comes up. My name is Vicky my trauma, and I am your host through this. Thrilling political climate here at space. We are creating a safe space for bad takes to do that every week. We are joined by a couple of friends who help us make sense of the world this week. We are delving into the wild wild west that is the election right now to help us. Explain what's going on in the world of Alberton politics is Catherine Greg gerski a reporter at Albert today along with Bashir. Muhammad, an Edmonds and writer and activist. On March nineteenth Alberta premier. Rachel Notley called the provincial election. The final results will be announced after polls closed on April sixteenth. But advance voting has already begun four Alberton. There are a bunch of options this year. There are six parties. Running the end EP the United conservative party or the UC p the Albert a party the liberal party, the green party and finally the freedom conservative party. And yet the race comes down to two main contenders the end EP led by Rachel Notley and the UC p led by Jason Kenney in this race. Rachel Notley is battling to protect her political legacy after a huge win in two thousand fifteen she's gone from being an agent of change to being at times, deeply deeply unpopular. Meanwhile, this is KENNY'S firsthand to put the UC pee on the map after slogging it out through a merger of the wild rose party and the Progressive Conservative parties. Kenny is at the helm of the UC p now you might remember Jason Kenney as minister of immigration under Stephen Harper. An impact he's been pushing his party's diversity. But nonetheless this election has not been without hiccups. There have been plenty of Boza eruptions and scandals have abounded for all but this election. It seems is focused on three main things which Albert tend to be kind of the same thing while gas and jobs. Recent polls have predicted a UC majority government, and it's clear that Elbert are excited to make a choice because on the first day of of advanced polling a hundred and forty thousand Alberton showed up which is twice as many as the previous election, Catherine. I want you to give us sort of like a short history of Albertus since Rachel Notley one in two thousand fifteen her and the end EP they came in on this tidal wave of change. But now polls have them losing the election to Kenny and the UC p what? Has changed in the past four years. So the UC p came into power to the surprise of many actually out of time. When a lot of L Burton's were frustrated by the entitlement to the PC's and worried to sort of this lake of fire. Bozo. Eruption stigma around the wild rose. But since the United conservative party merged those two right wing parties in the province in two thousand seventeen they've been leading in opinion polls ever ever since the end EP came to power during doubt, turn in the economy. And a lot of a lot of people are concerned that that recovery hasn't been felt evenly across the province yet. So that's kind of where we're at today. Now, we're at today has the UC p ahead in the polls by a good almost a good ten points ahead of the end EP. You know, forty eight point five percent ahead in the thirty seven point eight percent for the end EP and this is a Cording to this week CBC poll. Tracker. I wanna talk about some of the issues that are giving the UC p this advantage. Everyone's talking about jobs, and how Albert is unemployment rate is higher than the national average. What are the parties proposing to do to get people back to work? Sure. So from the UC p perspective, they say that the botched this file they're proposing corporate tax cuts to cut the red tape. They're they're saying that investors have been scared off, and they're they're also proposing to fight against Ottawa and against anybody who is in opposition to the oil sound. So that's kind of their plan. The MVP. Meanwhile, say yes, we need job girls. Put we're not going to do it at the expense of education or hospitals. But they have also given a number of financial incentives to the oil and gas sector, and they're also trying to diversify through a Petrochem. Michael, upgrading and refining. So that's been the peace plan is to diversify economy as opposed to relying solely on oil and gas. They've they've brought him this oil by rail strategy. They're put in oil production curtailment to try to shore up the differential in price between west Texas intermediate and western Canadian select crew prices. So so they had a number of strategies to try to bring about economic recovery. Now on the economic recovery is clearly a major part of this election. And it's part of the reason why the end EP are where they are in the first place. But it's also reason why they might be out which is that voters seemed to sat some voters seem to satisfied with the pace of the economic return. What issue do you think the election will come down to will it just be jobs jobs jobs? Well, the UC p are certainly trying to say the three. About our jobs the economy pipeline. Rachel, not however is saying this is a matter who you trust to lead not just on jobs, but a question of leadership, and that's where some of these ongoing Bozor options have have happened. They've been just about despu to pace of one per day in this election campaign. We've had candidates or party members for the UC p have been exposed how white supremacist views anti LGBT us climate change, Melissa. And you name it. They've they've got it. So they're saying that Jason Kenney the UC are not fit to lead. They're not there for all Burton's. They're asking Albert's capable give entity another shafts. They'll tell you. They're going to fix the economy Fisher. I wanna bring you in on this because you've been tracking some of these so-called bozo eruptions. Can you tell us specifically what you've heard and seen in this election that concerns you? I mean, there's a ton of examples like news. But I guess it's important to get some context. A common response is that, you know, this is an issue and all parties, and you know, it's not only like thing. But I guess to give context more candidates in this qualified for racism or homo phobic in the UC p let her name Todd than any other candidate in the Elbert a party liberal party. And also the end EP so it's an issue. That's. Affecting primarily one party. That's a lot of Todd's. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess for context there is to Todd's disqualified one raises and the other one for phobia. This was during the nomination process report thing to note is that nominated candidates do have to go through a vetting process. Also. But I I guess it concerns me because you know, you have very terrifying ideas that are being kind of normalized as just political discourse like any other political discourse. And caylin Ford is a good example, she resigned because it's comments leagues where she said that she was sad in pie. The demographic she called demographic replacement a white people from North America and Europe. And then she also said that this will not be a peaceful transition. So she resigned, but she's still a member of the ACP Jason Kenney said that they won't be kick you're out and that they're red line is if you actively belong to a hate group, so you can push these. You know, terrible views and still be a member Ricarda. And that's very concerning to me because what Kaelin fork said is exactly what what is aided the crusher shooter. And unfortunately, hearing a lot of UC UC p supporters at a lot of Elber organs kinda push that, you know, Keelan Ford had free speech. In fact, she was given forty five minutes to go on Daniel Smith's radio show where she former leader of the wild rose party. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting about that in two thousand twelve candidates that gay people will Malaysia fire and like ruin their chances. And so that was one candidate. But like here we have like thirty with we go back to the nomination. So it's kind of surreal it hasn't tanked their chances either. Anyways, she was on Hyun Ford was on her show Forty-five minutes where she refused to us. And we're done. He'll Smith even agreed that there is merit in talking about the demographic debate which. Is a white nationalist talking point. So so that gives you a scale of what this issue is. Now, you mentioned in that that it's not affecting their chances, especially if polls to be believed in none of these moments are denting, the UC peas popularity and in fact when asked about it, Jason Kenney said that voters aren't talking about things that don't matter which is to say that he means that these these so-called bozo eruptions aren't really having an impact on the campaign. There's like a parallel parallel realities going on here as I said before there are two campaigns happening here. There's the Twitter driven campaign, which is largely manufactured outrage dominated by the left-wing anger machine, which has really bears virtually no relationship to reality. And then there's the real campaign. I'd love to hear from both of you either from both a political strategy angle or Bashir from your view. You know, what that means when Jason Kenney says that I mean, I think it is having like the p have gone down a few points. I think no they're in single digits while before they had a double digit lead. So it is having the impact. And also when he made comments about the GSA proposed pulses around GSA legislation straight alliances. Yeah. Yeah. I'll burdens, you know, imitating Calgary, you know, the organ as protested within a few days. So I think it is having impact whether or not that's enough to like decide the election on tireless. Sure, we'll find out on election day. I was going to say almost like stepping on a single nail versus being able to lie down on a bed of nails. Right. Like with with the wild rose twenty twelve and Alan Hunte burger saying that gains are doomed to burn like a fire for alternative that was one. That was one nail in the foot on. It's almost like, I don't know voters have bozo. Fatigue or what? With with thirty. Bozo ruptures. All. Ready in this campaign? When forum research did that that poll for Albert today for us. I I asked that questions like how can the UC P B head with fifty five percent of decided voters when there has has been all of this. And the pollster said will not a question we asked, but it's it's a question of either they don't know or they don't care, and I think what Jason Kenney is betting his his strategy on is that, hey, people don't care about racism. They don't care about gender and sexual minorities. There. They only care about their own job. They only care about their employment. And I think that's sort of what we saw in the US election is that it was more than fifty percent of white women voted for Trump. So it's a case where voters are willing to turn a blind eye to bigotry as long as they have that promise that the. Economy's going to get better. So that's that's what I see is happening here. I mean, I think I think it's an interesting juxtaposition because I mean, I think for a lot of people somewhere like Calgary is a place where issues of racism, and sexism and bigotry do matter and will matter and Calgary is sort of renowned picking the party that will lead the province, and they're having a bit of pushback bit of conversationalist with these ideas is that, you know, is there like a huge urban rural divide in Alberta that shaping the election at the moment. Huge huge. So for example, Mark Smith is from Drayton valley, which is a rural constituency Mark Smith is the one who compared homosexual love to pedophilia. They not only do voters not mind that say said those things, but they're almost encouraged that there somebody willing to say it, whereas in the urban centers of Edmonton and Calgary share it mentioned there's been rallies of hundred. Of hundreds of people marching an opposition to propose rollbacks to gay straight alliance protections. So there's that there is this huge divide between urban voters on were over voters. I wanna ask one last question, and this would have a takes it out to the bigger picture, and what people like us an Ontario or watching for which is that should Jason Kenney win. He'll join a bunch of allies in Manitoba, Ontario substantial and in fighting defense carbon tax program. That's actually a pretty fierce wall of resistance that spans a huge portion of the country are voters in Berta gearing up for a larger fight with the federal government over this. I I would say out so Lutely so UCF said Bill number one is going to be the carbon tax right now. Actually, there's a hearing on Bill six nine and Bill c forty eight in the the Senate to do with energy development. Hope this entire lection part of Perv. Connie pipelines has has been for the pushback against Ottawa and part of that is carbon tax. They are there is a romance. There were between Doug Ford and Jason penny. Penny said that we finish each other sentences. It's great. So there is this coalition forming amongst provinces conventional conservative leaders who push back against federally imposed carbon-tax. Now, you actually if you speak to a lawyer, they might play that this constitutional challenge doesn't really stand a chance. Let about as much of the perception of it as it is any real. Ounce of fighting against a federally carbon tax too little bit a house now is they have their own carbon Levy, they were to those same things that the were when when they were attorney aware with the federal carbon-tax the end. Yeah, this is because the federal program is essentially that if provinces have a carbon tax program to the province these as being part of a national plan provinces are allowed to institute their own carbon pricing program. Whereas if the federal government doesn't view it as being appropriate, then they're stuck with federal price on carbon. Yes. Yeah. Exactly. I want. I'm actually interested about sort of this conservative coalition, and what that brings up for you. You know, what does it mean to you? He conservative premier's from Ontario Manitoba scotch would and potentially Berta, you know, United in this way, really concerning I guess from an environmental perspective. The report the chemo said Canada's worming at twice the rate than any other place. And I think a large part of it like I mean, everybody that I've spoken to in Elbert support these P E, or who are not leading towards the end EP the carbon tax usually the number one thing they bring up, and it's amazing how they were able to kinda Bill. This message around, you know, the carbon tax and not having pipelines being the thing that's preventing the whole industry from coming back and saving us as somebody who grew up in Alberta. I know how much you know, that oil industry means to people here. Like, I have family who were. In the oil oil industry and work during the boom, I remember the days of one hundred dollar a barrel oil, and it's this appointing see polticians, basically lie to the general public and say that we can go back to those days, and that only need to do is fight against this carbon tax which was not even doing that good of a job at combat emissions and also lying Elbert by saying that, you know, if we build this pipeline things will be much better. Like, we're not going to go back to working up north and four back making a hundred grand year, we need to be we need to be more realistic disappointing that not only the peop- at the end EP of also bought into this idea of you know, we can go back to how was and that's been a lot of the framing so this coalition with Antero scotch win L Berta, and it's pretty disappointing to me because a hall of it seems to be built on this really big lie that we can go back to a pass. That wasn't good environmentally. But was very unsustainable. When it was happening. And finally, it's time for takeaway. This is the part of the show where we are boldest out. Opinions are rants are endorsements or whatever else we need to get up our chests Bashir. Why don't you get started? What do you have this week going back to the environment every single party in this election supports pipelines? I think the only part of that doesn't is agree and party, but they don't really have a chance of government. So there isn't really that much data versity in ideas when it comes to that. And it's a supporting because of in my opinion, Albert can still be the energy province that framing could directly counter what we have which as I said before is. I'm not sure from let's say this bullshit. The pipelines will save us. We have so many traits people that if we have the political will we could train to help build a better grid and to transition to renewable energy sources. So. It's it's this appointing to see why the political discourse has become an how no major political leader is willing to challenge that. So I guess that's my bad your take. I mean, I was reading today that people who are buying pot. That's legal are paying about. At least seventeen percent, if not more people who are continuing to buy it illegally and Albert owes where I saw the most like free capital running around, you know, people making a profit I feel like that could that's a potential avenue for growth or change or somewhere that Elbert. Could excel if they wanna shift away from oil for sure that the end of the day like this is going to be future. And I think a lot of people think that the oil companies are friends like you see these campaigns of people wearing t shirts that say, I love Elbert oil and gas, and that's really post by these companies, but they don't care about us the second, they lose profits. They're going to leave and it's going to be up to us to clean up the mess. So I think. We I would've loved to see the peer any other opposition party take a different stance instead of falling into this myth that oil is going to save us. But in reality, it's what got us in this place. And it's what's gonna keep screwing us over. Interesting. All right. Well, that was a hot political take from Bashir, Catherine. What do you have a shared? I must be having bide milk going on. Because my takeaway is on the same path. One thing we've been hearing a lot particularly from the, but also B P is not there's this foreign funded activism that's trying to keep down the Alpert. Oil sounds and that I mean, they've said that indigenous groups are only against pipelines because they're getting all this money from foreign funded environmental groups, Vivian Krause's work has been cited constantly. But I think I think the real problem is a lack of taking climate change. Seriously, the International Energy Agency just put out a forecast at and they only expect a growth in the band for oil through twenty forty to grow by six percent. Meanwhile, you have both end EP and the UC p creating dues propaganda arms for the oil industry on with with the end EP government. They had this keep Elbert a working campaign where they put up billboards in Ottawa. Toronto. They have these commercials running on TV and part of the UC Ps platform is going to have the energy war room where they have real time fighting back against what they called myths. So I agree with Bashir that I think there's a real lack of transition to renewable energy we could use all these skilled workers only skilled trades to harness. The fact that we have the sunniest place in Canada, we have so much potential for wind farms. We can really be leaders. And instead we're trying to put out propaganda try and change the the way people think about us when even all companies like shell are saying we're going to transition away from fossil fuels that the future of energy is not in oil and gas. So that's that's my takeaway. Right. I mean, I think those are both smart well thought out pieces mine is less. So, unfortunately, which is that I thought. Honor of Albert IRA talk about country music. Which I'm sure you both love, but Lil Nasr acts dropped his remix of old town road with the classic the master rather of country music. Billy Ray Cyrus, and it's a fantastic track. It's a frigging bop. But the billboard music people said that it's not country, and I maintain that it is in that I will fight to the death. I will fight the CEO billboard to prove that it is country music. I mean, he has a horse's care here. Right. He's got the there's horses on this track. Like, I think that if you have horses on the song that music. At it's an it's more country than a lotta the bro country. You know, talking about tight, jeans and beer it gets. It's the country. Yeah. I think so too. There's lots of country that's just sort of like a guy kind of mumbling low, and I'm like, that's not real country music is it. All right. Well, that's it for the show this week. Thank you so much to our guests, Catherine gusty in Bashir Muhammad Bashir, how can people keep up with you? Twitter account out the sure it's mostly bad takes and NBA stuff. But there's some political stuff. And Katherine how about you. So you can sign up for free two week trial by newsletter covering all things over the politics at AB today dot CA or you can follow me on Twitter. And at Seabrook hausky, that's C G R. I w w s k y task this episode was recorded at voca fry studios and is produced by doors as Lami you can find us on itunes going to it's a safe space dot com. Please leave us a rating in review, especially if you like the show because we love hearing what you think you can also get in touch with us on Twitter at it's a safe space, and you can keep up with my writing by going to announcements dot subject dot com. You can read my free thoughts on Twitter at eve my trauma, safe-space comes out every Friday morning and until next week. Stay safe.

Jason Kenney Albert IRA Bashir Muhammad Bashir Rachel Notley Elbert United conservative party Twitter liberal party Keelan Ford Alberta Ottawa Calgary conservative party Kenny Berta Alberton Daniel Smith Canada
Getting back to "New Normal"

Northern Kentucky Spotlight

26:16 min | 1 year ago

Getting back to "New Normal"

"Welcome to the Northern Kentucky spotlight. Thank you for joining us here. I'm gather Niro alongside Jeremy in the marketing and Communications Record for the Northern Kentucky Chamber of Commerce how to treat the house corona virus almost open. Treat me, Jeremy, it's it's getting better. There's a light at the end of the tunnel. I think I mean every. Everybody's being really positive about everything so and I've only got. This is the last episode with this this long long long here. On Monday Yup. Ruth did we're all fixed up and all that good stuff? So whenever you're haircut is happening ladies and gentlemen enjoying its feet but at the time we got a lot of good stuff to talk about today as we approach the Akkadian believe I'm saying this, but the end of May. We I. WE'RE GOING TO START OFF with Ashley Gallagher from Panera bread. She's going to tell us about how they've been surviving and thriving. Really in all this craziness and then Brent Cooper or one and only Brian. Cooper is GONNA. Come on and talk about what he's all over the weekend kind of fill us in what he's been hearing. and then finally are Christian Baldwin. She's GonNa. Come on and talk about why and how we're going to vote you know and get we got you know. We gotTA keep getting out and getting out and voting, but maybe staying in home in voting. ardell process Since years we'll be talking with her ahead and as always. We WanNA. Thank our sponsors through all of this CG, our title sponsor the Ellen in Federal Credit Union our studios sponsor, NC grew consulting our digital sponsor. Making all of this happened, bringing this to you and hey, we get to our guest. Remember subscribe and share and do all that fun stuff and stick around because Northern Kentucky spotlight will be right back. Sometimes, life is hectic choosing a mortgage lender. Lender shouldn't be the Ellen N. five mortgage offers competitive rates NOPE EMI and up to one hundred percent financing. That's a mortgage that comes with peace of mind whether you're purchasing a new home. We we financing you'll feel right at home with Ellen. And we're local trusted and will be here for you. Even after your closing call eight hundred to nine, hundred, twenty, nine, zero, five and get started on your five five mortgage Ellen in federal. Credit Union welcome home. All right now it's recording yeah. Welcome back to Northern Kentucky spotlight right now. We're talking about food because that is what we do here on the spotlight, food and drink, and we could actually talk about Polka them with Ashley Gallagher from panerabread Ashley thanks for joining us today. Thank you for having me all right. Let's talk about what life is like. What businesses like four Pinero right now? so we have the dining rooms open again now since last Friday so that's exciting. We're excited to have our customers back in the store We have plenty of outside seating. Social distancing. an inside as well we have our five dry suit cafes in northern Kentucky, so they've stayed fairly busy throughout this and businesses starting to pick back up, which is you know feels good and yeah so. Awesome you you. Recently implemented curbside to go at your locations Northern Kentucky Tell us about how that work I personally use it last night and thought it was amazing I. Tell us how it works. Okay so it works like rapid pickup. If you're not familiar with that, you go on our website in new place in order online for to go When you get to the Bakery Cafe, you just go on the website and Click I'm here. I'm one of our associates will bring it out in about five minutes or less We also have instructions when you pull into the parking spots as well. You didn't call the cafe If you're having any issues or things like that, but it's really easy. It's working out really well for our customers, and they really enjoy it so. You guys had the rapid pickup before. Order Online. Go inside. Pick it up. It did the fact that you had all of this opportunity. Already there you have the drive-thrus. You had the indoor seating out proceeding and this rapid pickup. Did that help you in this transition? When everything kind of changed once, Corona virus it. Yeah I do I think you know? There was just some small changes that we made to make it more convenient for our customers to feel safe, and to keep them safe and same with our associates, so yeah I think this has been an easy transition for us so far. One of the things that drew me to Order Order Pinera last night was I I have two young kids, and you guys have that great new family feast. Yeah, we thought it was a great deal. Tell us tell us about that. So the family feasts, several different options and prices vary I. Think you know it's anywhere from twenty three to thirty three dollars dot fees a family so either way. It's great pricing where you can do a soup family feasts where you get to courts of the your choice of soup with four goals bag at Soup and Salad Sandwich In Soup there's different options you can see it on our website. You can go, and then he bakery cafe in order through our drive through deliveries, anyone of our outlets and they come with a whole bag, and then four cookies as well so it's a really good deal. Good deal. It's a ton of like we. We did the MAC and cheese one last night and it was. Two half sandwiches for the adults to kids. Sandwiches a salad of salad in a big thing, Mac and cheese and my kids. They weren't having because they love that Mac and cheese is really. Don't move that Mac and cheese yeah! Yeah my kids as well and that's their favorite so. So actually, what are you hearing from customers now that they can come back to their favorite stores. What are they? What are they saying? I think they're excited and I think You know possibly a little hesitant at first, but the environment and the stores were you know being extremely cautious with our associated with our customers been maintaining every single safety precaution. We can I. think that you know It's really been a positive thing since we've spoken. These dining rooms on. The customers are happy to be back for sure, so that brings us to our next. Question of the month, so we've been asking this for a little bit of money now and now that everything's kind of opening kinda getting a little dated, but this is the last week month, so we gotta keep it up until until next week. so, what is that one thing as we get back to a semi quasi? Was One thing that you've been looking forward to the most. So I'm excited and hopeful that the polls welcome back. I have young kids like I said and you know they're going. Stir crazy with nothing to do outdoors so really hoping that happens and happens soon, so yeah, that's what I would say. That would be my next thing, so fingers crossed. That happens I. Don't think. We'll thank you so much, and we can't wait to hit the the drive through or curbside or indoor dining at Panara. All of it open now. We look forward to that. Remind us where your locations are very quickly. so we have one in union. Kentucky Florence, Kentucky Crestview Konare, dixie highway, and then crushed and springs buttermilk location Those are my cafes. We do have to other northern Kentucky Stores Cold Springs in Newport which are great locations as well so a lot of come. Check us out all right Ashley. Thank you and we'll be right back here on Northern Kentucky spotlight. On Google search maps as easy to understand. But hard to do. It requires constant effort and attention uploading new photo ops responding to Google reviews writing weekly posts and checking suggested up. Google listing optimization takes experience and talk. and. There are no shortcuts. See crew gives your Google my business account this steady consistent attention. It needs to be affected optimizing updating and expanding critical contact every single week. From local retail stores to large regional networks see crude generates content establish his benchmarks at creates dramatic measurable increases and engagement. So what can see crude do for your business. More calls more clicks more clients. Welcome back to the Northern Kentucky spotlight and familiar base, the President of the Northern Kentucky Chamber Brent Cooper is your breath. Thanks for coming on the podcast again today. Together appreciate it all right. We're talking about you. Know as you know. They're calling the reopening of America. Kentucky is no different. You've been out and about and talking to all the member organizations. So, what are you hearing about this reopening process? Tried to get around to many bars and restaurants could this past weekend. You're any art, Brandt. Yeah, I know I got to drink as much bourbon and eat as much as I possibly can be a good chamber president. I also got around to a lot of the retail organizations that are a reopening in all of them are doing things slightly differently, but also pretty consistently. They are encouraging masks. Many have the signs up. That kind of Gibson guidelines guidance. We've seen some businesses. Get creative with new hours with carry out things in addition to outdoor seating, and we've been encouraging cities and counties. To continue to be creative on what they can do with. Different sign edge, maybe a closing streets, and allowing some businesses to use those. Enhanced sidewalks than where they can put tables. That kind of thing. And also to consider supporting these businesses different ways with. Grants and different funding. They receive from Zach. We've been seeing a lot of different things. One business got an ice cream machine and started serving ice cream a little bit later than normal to get more foot traffic, and their neighbors appreciated that, and so we've seen businesses collaborating and working together. It's really kind of A. It's exciting time. It's also a little bit scary. Still we're in this new normal, so we're trying to encourage that big of safety by getting back to commerce, and that's I. think that's what we need right now. You Know I. Love a the alcohol to go I hope that never goes away I. Fear that it will, but man I don't want to go away, but to that end. What what is the most creative thing specifically that you've seen when you've been out and about? I think honestly We've seen all kinds of things like people when you hit him the credit card where they saying ties right away, they have pre sanitized pens. They you know they. They have menus that a pre sanitized. And then they're really emphasizing the safety to try to get people comfortable, coming in and out or or visiting their sidewalk new sidewalk venue it's. It's a mix I. mean everybody is being creative in different ways, but the emphasis on safety I think really is is the key point because if people feel safe, they're not gonNA. Come visit your bar. Restaurant Brewery copy shop retail store. You name it so safety first, and then also for employees. Because if you keep, people want to come back. They've got feel. So creativity around safety I think is the big push. What about in retail have you seen in the kind of difference, the transitions that business owners have made in the retail space. I think again really focused on stage encouraging the masks. In again wiping down everything ahead of time and follow following that up and you'll see now. The lines where people are separated with distance encouraging that. Look I know some people are not respecting the safety piece of it, so those businesses are dealing with that at times, and so trying to find ways to kill 'em with kindness, if you will and make sure that people are are adhering to the rules along the way. We shout a lot of those businesses that really gone the extra mile we want to help continue with that and we're encouraging those businesses to keep telling their stories to us and allow us also when there is regulations or things that are confusing to leverage the chambers advocacy in our work to help us smooth away I'm so we will keep. We will keep working on that as the months and weeks go by. So Talking about some of that the happy stuff, but what are some of the real big challenges that people have been having to get back to to work? From our perspective, the number one thing is cash. I. Keep bringing that up a lot of these small shops. They did not get the letting the Payroll Protection Program from the Cares Act. They didn't get anything from the SBA yet and so those cities counties, and even the state the can in all of those businesses get through I. Think it's very much needed. And so cash first, and then understanding the rules and regulations, and we still have a lot of confusion out there in different industries, different businesses that are struggling with that in a cringing best practices, so we're encouraging people to come to the chamber participate in various committees. Talk to other retailers, the other businesses in learn from what they're doing so that they can be stronger so cash first safety return to business, and then ultimately you know bringing folks back in marketing and getting people back into the full I will tell you some businesses are having. Having no trouble doing that. A lot of chamber members are already as soon as their doors open. People were coming in and out, and so they're living with the new normal, but people are excited to get back out for sure that creates its don't set of problems. Doesn't it? Like you said if if people want to come in restaurants or having at this point, turn people up to thirty three percent capacity What what of those members say is a great problem to have right now? I know they're thrilled to have to turn people away. Yeah I, think there is some frustration on the thirty three percents It seems arbitrary and other states have not done that. They've said look if we can maintain a six distance if we can do all the other standards, hand sanitizer, watching and so forth wide thirty three percent, and I think that's a question. Worth asking me like something that we're. We are definitely conveying up up the chain, but that's so. That is a frustration. We hear that said you know people are rolling with. With it for the vast majority I think people are rolling with it and just figuring out. Hey, look if that's what it takes to be reopened and that's what we're GONNA do and we're gonNA. Wear masks. It's not the end of the world and so I think that's our message. Well, let's get back to doing some business and get commerce going again, and then ultimately will get back to a normal Sunday, but right now this is the new normal. We gotta live with it. Awesome well. You get to get the question in the month now. Just because you work at the chamber to doesn't mean that we're going to exempt you said The you know. You're already getting back out to the normal. But what was that one thing you or the really looking forward to getting back to normal? Was it like you know spa? or I know I know it wasn't a haircut like me, but. Looking for barber is a very smart guy. I will tell you that in, but. Since I cut my own hair. I can say jokes like that. I was really looking forward to frankly just getting out to some of the local bars drinking I know that sounds. You would expect nothing less for me at this point. But it really it's been great to kind of see folks and got to see for a little bit and seeing them open, and seeing them surviving this it warms my heart and I. Do know we're going to get through this in the long haul and it does get it. It's a process that takes time but That's been the most exciting thing for me, so thanks for that question. Yeah it's it's amazing. The progress we've seen in two weeks can only imagine what two more weeks will bring, so we look forward to seeing what that looks like rent. Thank you so much. We appreciate it. Thanks for hearing me by y'all. Go all right and listen big news out. We're GONNA be talking about Election Day. How this works what you need to do right now to make sure your vote counts. I'll stick with us here. Here on the Northern Kentucky Spotlight CG Airport is the lowest fear airport in the Tri State, region with fifty four nonstop flights and direct international service to seven destinations, including Paris France and now home to both DHL's and Amazon's global cargo hubs, the airport is furthering position as leader in aviation and is deeply committed to being an economic driver for the community. You can learn more and start your next adventure at CG AIRPORT DOT COM. Welcome back to the Northern Kentucky. Spotlight in our spotlight right now is on election. Day is drawing ever closer and right now to talk about it. Kristen Baldwin joins us. She's the vice president of public. Affairs communication for the northern. Kentucky Chamber, so Kristen thanks for being here today. Thanks for having me. Catherine Greg. Talk about elections. Let's talk about the most important thing deadlines. What do we need to know Kentucky Voters Right now to? To make sure ARGO counts so primary dead deadline. The election days been changed. I was been moved back five weeks to June twenty third two Tuesday June twenty third is actually going to be election day here in the state of Kentucky. And what we're asking him or want to do is to request a ballot online, the absentee or mail in ballot by June fifteenth so Monday. June fifteenth your deadline to request a ballot online. So requesting ballot online. How easy is that? What's the process like? What what? What even website do we go to? So took me less than two minutes to do it on Monday to get that done, so we're sending everyone to go boat. K, Y, DOT, com again! That's go vote, K, Y, Dot Com, and what? You'RE GONNA do they're? You're going to request an absentee ballots again? Again. We're wanting me to vote safe at home and so I want you to go to that website that's been been leading by the Secretary of State website which are GonNa, be there is you're going to your information. They're going to ask you some specific a unique information like from yourself, so they're gonNA. Ask your social security number. Thank you for your name as you. You for your date of birth, the walk you through a series of questions to confirm who you are, it will also ask you. I'm about a signature. One of the big questions about this election is making sure. Everybody is no voter fraud. So when I went through that it asked me for my driver's license number was it was able to poke my records my driver's license. License signature, so they're using my driver's licence signature through this system technology as we all know a wonderful thing these days, so they have my signature on file, so they're able to go ahead and use my signature in when I signed my ballot, they're going to be able to cross reference signature. That's all my driver's license with this contract. Provide in my my absentee ballot. So voting absentee is not the only way that we can vote, so go through us if you will different ways that we can cast that ballot. If there are there ways you can vote, but right now we're encouraging everyone to do absentee ballard that mail in ballot right now just to help ease the lines. We also had happened in Wisconsin couple months ago. We don't want that to happen. We want this to be as easy as possible. As the business community were all about convenience where all about thinking ahead at how can do this is simple and easy as possible so we would encourage everyone to that male unbowed option, but if you. You Miss for example you missed that. June, fifteen deadline or maybe mail. An option is not an opportunity for you to do that. You don't have Internet access with the library shutdown. or you may need some additional assistance. Everyone has the right to vote in person. So as you can do at one, you can request a vote in person early. You have to do an appointment only which we'd have the clerk's office or you can actually vote in person on election day again. We're trying to encourage everyone to do that. prior to election day part of that June fifteenth deadline, but you can have the opportunity to vote in person. Be Limited opportunities for where you can vote in person on election day. Which is why we're trying to encourage wanted to do it by Mellon. So. It's a lot about how we're. GonNa. Vote who are voting for the. Primary so it is a is a primary, so that means there will be a democratic and the Republican ballot. Unfortunately I'm in Kentucky. We don't allow independence and allow an open primary option, so if you are aren't independent grant to the November election to cast your ballot, but for Democrats and Republicans you will be having the option to vote one of the biggest races looking at it will. Will be the fourth congressional race. That seat is currently held by Congressman Thomas Massie. This will be the first time he'll be challenged in a primary election They're also be to Democrats that are running for congressional offices. Well was mother lower lower ballot races coming up that I'll be in the primary, but primarily the big big election is going to be a congressional race for the fourth district. What I knew people are already looking ahead to November. And there's what where do we stand now and how we might be voting or any inkling of how we might be voting in November yeah, the good thing that we have in Kentucky that we've been able to push our primary backfire weeks, and so we have the opportunity to look at what a meal! An option is now in May, so we excuse me in June. We're not sure what November will hold there. There's been talk a lot about the second wave. We can't move the November election without an act of Congress. Congress, we Kinda joke that it takes an act of Congress do certain things. Someone is definitely one that takes an act of Congress to move so there has been no determination at this point made about the November election we may look and maybe in late July early August before the governor and the Kentucky Secretary of State make that determination before we move forward that one, but having this option in our back pocket that we know how to do a primary mayland options that we if November does happen and we have to go that route. We can do that. And just because it's the primary doesn't mean you can skip it. Everyone needs to get out there and vote. Tell talk about how bad we have been in the past at this primary voting thing. Dagger, question so went back and looked at the numbers or primary in two thousand sixteen presidential election and Boone County. The numbers were twelve percent of the registered voters came out to vote in Boone Campbell and King County only fourteen percent of the registered voters came out to vote again. That's an eye presidential primary year. In general, it gets much much better than the general it's. It's in the fifty nine sixty fifty seven percent of elected and registered voters do come out to vote, but again that primary we're in the low teens, so we do encourage as many people as possible to come out and vote, but you're right. Those numbers are horrible, so we try to go from worst to first. Let's get a little bit better than that. Twelve percent turnout rate. Just because it's the primary doesn't mean you can skip your civic duty to vote. Buckle Sam says. We want you to vote. In Chris, speaking of which you guys came out with a really great opportunity for people to research. How what we're all of that to vote and vote in Kyi. Tell us about that website and remind us. Yes vote in Kyi dot. Com was a non-partisan initiative that we started last year last. November are big roll out of that once that we're continuing on his efforts, so we wanted to have a one stop shop that we could involve a lot of different questions around the election, so whether it be a voter guide whether we details about where to vote how to vote. We didn't realize that. That this was going to happen, and it would be very useful, but we want to provide simple messaging to to incur CECCHI citizens to get out and vote and have that one opportunity to get out there. Again is a nonpartisan effort that were working to to try to encourage voter turnout effort in tech again. We're so underrepresented in our region. WanNa bring some more light to that. Awesome well again. You're in northern Kentucky Chamber, employees, but that doesn't get you out of doing the question of the month. So, what does that one thing that you're looking forward to to do once we get back to. Normal normal issue. I. Think what I'm looking forward to is going to the zoo so I have a one year. And and so we are reading an enormous amount of books related to rhinocerous INS and giraffes and elephants to actually be able to go back to the zoo and push a stroller around when it's ninety degrees outside with the rest of the parents to get out and see their their joint misery and my child's excitement to see those a zoo character. We Really. Really Fun. He really enjoyed our pints in perspectives a couple of weeks ago when they took us around him, watching a little bit of that. When he got a little seasick with the rest of us in that that event, but we did enjoy looking at the zoo animals. You need to get out to the Florence y'all the petting zoo. They have kangaroos. It was cool. Always looking for something to do so the. Thirty, dollars a car loud just. And there's a there's a there's a special coupon discount code. Get five dollars off its friends all caps. They told us to share it out with everybody. Off whether it's the y'all's or the zoo I agree with you completely Chris. We gotta get back out there and hopefully one day. We'll be back sweating pushing that stroller. Well, we thank you so much up again. For All the information you need about voting any information. You Need Voting Kyi and tell us when we're time the website to go to get that absentee ballot. Go Vote K. Y DOT COM. All right well. Thank you so much. Thank you, thank. You for watching and listening today. Thanks to our sponsors. Who to thank CG. The title sponsoring the Ellen Federal. Credit Union our studio sponsor and secret consulting the digital sponsor as well as Jeremy Charan, the man pulling all the strings behind the operation original buttons. That's my favorite. Thank you gotTA, keep it on that one and thank you for joining us as well hit, subscribe hitch, share whatever you can do to get this information out there, and we'll see next week here on the Northern Kentucky spot.

Kentucky Northern Kentucky Northern Kentucky TA Ashley Gallagher Brent Cooper Jeremy Charan Northern Kentucky Chamber of C Ellen Credit Union Google Northern Kentucky Spotlight CG Panera bread Chris Kentucky Chamber Ellen N. Mac
4. The Treaty

This Land

35:10 min | 2 years ago

4. The Treaty

"It's June twenty first eighteen thirty nine. Under the darkness of night, a group of men meet, and a small cabin. They pass around a hat and each straw. A piece of paper. Some papers are blink. Others marked with an x the men with an axe are given assignments. They split into groups and before the sun comes up, they mount their horses, and right off to different places and Cherokee nation to carry out the plan. Daybreak. Twenty five men arrive at the house of Cherokee leader. John ridge John is asleep inside with his family. Three men barge through the front door and find John in bed. They drag him outside his wife tries to run after him. But some of the men hold her back. The men have been warned that John is very persuasive, and not to let him speak to drown his, please. They shout over him. John struggles, but he knows what's going to happen. He knows he's living on borrowed time. And now comes the inevitable. Who was John ridge? And why does his story matter let me tell you? You're listening to this land a podcast about broken promises tribal land and murder this year. The supreme court will change the future of five native American tribes in the US including mine when it answers one question is half the land in Oklahoma Indian country. I'm your host Rebecca Nagel citizen of Cherokee nation in this episode. We're going to go way back. I'm in a tell you the story of how my people came to Oklahoma and how this land became our land in the first place. It's also the story of my family the decisions they made and the price they paid for it. Growing up. My grandmother often told me stories about John ridge and his father, major ridge, our ancestors, major ridge is my great great great, great grandfather. Before I was old enough to know about things like US presidents, or treaty rights. I knew my ancestors had been leaders of Cherokee nation and in their lifetime. They fought and died for our tribe the way my grandma told the story they were heroes. But that's not how everyone sees it. I didn't understand the whole story until I was nine years old. That's summer. My family took a road trip to Georgia to see where ancestors had lived before removal, we stopped at a museum about the trail of tears, major ridge and John Ridge's portrait's were on the wall. I recognize them immediately copies of the same paintings were on the wall of my grandma's house at the museum there was text next to their images explaining their connection to this history. But there was a new word in their story one I had never heard. My grandma say traders. Oh, gosh. It's still a huge debate. It's still lives on today. This is Catherine grey. I'm a history and preservation officer with Turkey nation Turkey nations citizen. She's spent a lot of time. Untangling, the story of the ridges, I don't want people to agree or disagree with me. And my job isn't to tell you how to feel one way or another about our history. I just want people to have all of the facts and, you know, love or hate the ridges, that's on you. And by the end of the story, you too can decide what you think. Ag- year to gaze, I e gonna dot laggy do don't harass the Dana Sinoe, watching do, we noon to Leonard. Dr Adrian keen, a Cherokee citizen writer activists likes to say, settlers have colonization stories and indigenous. People have creation stories settlers, no the stories of how they came to this land. But as indigenous people, we know how this land was formed because we have been here since the beginning of time. In our Cherokee, Chretien story, the buzzard sued flew for seven days, and seven nights when he got tired, his wings fell into the mud and formed valleys and every time he lifted his wings, it formed the ridges and mountaintops. My great great, great, great grandfather walked along these ridges. And that's where he got his name Ghana, dodged Eggy, which means the men who walks along the top of the mountain. In english. It was shorten to ridge later in life. He would take the first name, major. This was John's father. He was known as a great hunter, warrior and public speaker, he drew crowds, and help people in awe as he spoke all insure Akhi. He did not come from a prominent family, but he would become one of the most powerful leaders in Cherokee nation. He was very well respected as a military leader during his lifetime, major ridge, witnessed one of the largest migration in US history, one that isn't taught in school. Millions of white settlers move from the Atlantic coast, west onto native land after the revolutionary war. This migration was really a land. Grab tribes found themselves fighting more and more white settlers, there's just so much rapid change that's happening within one to two generations. And he's a part of that he's witnessing that firsthand. Major ridge fought against the theft of Cherokee lands at a time when the United States was taking advantage of the way our government was decentralized. You would have found hundreds if not thousands possibly at one time Cherokee towns that were scattered throughout the the southeastern United States. All of these towns had their own chief. In other words, there wasn't one Representative who could push back against white encroachment. So the United States manipulated individual chiefs into giving up Cherokee land. And there was one chief a man named double head, who was particularly easy to exploit. By eighteen seven hit already signed away Cherokee land to the US three separate times, and he was about to do it again. But major ridge was determined to stop him. And to send a message to others. With two other men, intoe, major ridge hunted down chief double head and killed him. It was a brutal murder, but he believed it was necessary to protect Cherokee land years later. He pushed Cherokee nations council to pass a law that made giving land the United States. A crime punishable by death. He didn't know it yet. But that decision would seal his fate. Major ridge grew up before the United States even existed but his son, John ridge born around eighteen o three grew up with the United States surrounding Cherokee nation and affecting their everyday lives. Johnston ration- had to figure out how to get along with white society. Here's historian, Catherine Greg and. Yeah. We realize that the United States these people are not going anywhere. We're going to have to deal with them. We're going to have to maintain a relationship with them. I mean, we're gonna have to fight for our lands in and in the United States court, that's one of the reasons why we start viewing assimilation as. The way that we're going to be able to preserve Orleans the push for simulation did not come from a belief that the white world was somehow better than the Cherokee world. It came from the reality that if our people were going to survive, they would have to operate in both and that involved learning English. Major ridge made a point to never learn it. He traveled to Washington met with presidents became a famous diplomat, but never learned the colonizers language, but he wanted something different for his son. John. Wanted him to be able to live in the present time in their present time. And you know, be able to with the things that were happening then. So John went to the first Indian boarding school in the United States. It was named the Cornwall mission school. But most people called it the heathen school. John learned English and built his life in both worlds while he was at school. John got very sick and became bedridden, the headmaster's daughter, Sara help take care of him. And over time they fell in love both their families objected, but ever so slowly their parents came around the white people of Cornwall, Connecticut. However, did not after John married. Sarah, he was nearly killed by an angry mob. The newlyweds had to leave Connecticut immediately. But the outrage, they sparked followed them papers throughout the northeast spread news. About the young savage Indian marrying a white girl crowds confronted them, wherever they stopped all of a sudden, everybody was just this astounded them palled that, you know, these white girls with Mary Indians. These heathens the local community was so enraged, they forced Cornwall mission school to close a few years later, but John had already graduated he went on to study law, and he became one of the first native American warriors, he used his white education to resist from within he was a lawyer. He argued before the congress of the United States he spoke to presidents, he was very distinguished looking man and very knowledgeable. He was basically a nineteenth century lobbyists. John went on speaking tours and the northeast he met with members of congress and US presidents about the plight of Cherokee nation and on behalf of other tribes in the south both John and his father were embassador 's for the tribe. And they were able to go out there and prove to, to the United States and really to the world that were not just these heathen savage Indians living. How we think we are an educated that we're not capable of, of doing everything that you can. After years of organizing Cherokee nation established its first Britain constitution in eighteen twenty seven it unequivocally declared Cherokee nation sovereignty over our land independent from the United States. It said, in plain terms that, not one more foot of our land would be given to the US and this rage. The, the state of Georgia. And that was a problem because Georgia surrounded Cherokee land, and Georgia wanted it. So the states started passing laws telling Cherokees what they could and could not do on our own land. These laws were known as harassment laws. We were not allowed to mine gold on our own lands. So it was illegal Cherokees to do that. It was illegal for Cherokees to meet and council. What George is trying to do is extend its laws. And this fight was in just on paper, the Georgia militia began coming onto Cherokee territory to enforce these laws things got violent many Cherokees died. The militia seize property said Cherokee homes on fire and encouraged white settlers to take over Cherokee land. It was basically a state of undeclared war, Georgia was making life for Cherokees unbearable to force us to leave and Georgia had a powerful ally. The man in the White House, Andrew Jackson, when it all Indians, kicked off their land and pushed west of the Mississippi. Injured Jackson brought a wave of populism to the Oval Office. Thumbing his nose at Washington. Elite and political norms as president. He was known to openly fight with congress use his office to enrich himself and his friends and would alternate defy an order from the supreme court to carry out, genocide. It's not a coincidence, that Andrew Jackson is Donald Trump's favored president, and it's not surprising that a country who continues to praise a man like Jackson would end up electing a man like Trump. If we don't learn from our history, it's doomed to repeat itself. Intel, then John and major ridge had used diplomacy not force. But now the tribes back was up against the wall. Major ridge decided to take action. He had to stop the onslaught of white settlers pouring into Cherokee nation if the United States wouldn't enforce our treaty rights Cherokee nation would major ridge and band of warriors addicted squatters from a settlement at cedar creek without killing anyone, and then burned the whole town to the ground. But their show of force backfired, Georgia's civilians retaliated even more brutally the bloodshed, lift chair, he nation with even fewer options. Cherokee leaders like major ridge didn't know what to do next. But John ridge had an idea. His plan was to win this war in the courts of the United States. One of Georgia's harassment laws had a loyalty requirement for all white people living, within Cherokee, nation, the laws stated that they had to pledge allegiance to the state of Georgia. But some people in Cherokee nation refused, including a group of missionaries, they felt that this was going to hurt their reputation with the, the Cherokee people. Or, and they ended up being jailed for eleven missionaries were arrested most eventually caved. But one man Samuel booster held out, John ridge, worked with stir to argue that Cherokee nation was a sovereign government and Georgia couldn't enforce their laws on our land. His case made it all the way to the supreme court. John ridge worked with Worcester to argue that the state of Georgia couldn't arrest him because Georgia's laws had no authority and Cherokee nation. Worcester's defense was that Cherokee nation was a sovereign government and Georgia couldn't enforce their laws on our land. John rich was in Boston on a speaking tour to drum up support for Cherokee, sovereignty when he got the news Cherokee nation had won the supreme court ruled what Andrew Jackson, and this state of Georgia were doing was a legal the victory meant they could remain a sovereign nation on their own land. John rejoiced. It was the first win ever for native Americans at the supreme court. His plan had worked, but within days, John ridge got word that president Jackson was planning to defy the court's decision. As my family tells it a furious. John ridge, went straight to the White House to confront the president, but Jackson had already made up his mind here is my cousin Nancy telling me, what Jackson said, he said, chief Justice John Marshall has made his made the decision. Let him enforce it. This was a legal. Justice, John Marshall had only gavel an opponent them while the president had an army Andrew Jackson was the only one who could make Georgia followed the supreme court's order, but he openly and flagrantly refused. John realized. That nothing. Not even a supreme court victory would protect Cherokee nation and all of a sudden all the hope went away, and they saw what was going to happen. As Katherine tells it president Jackson told Georgia to, to fire under us, and we'll move, and so that becomes Jackson's illegal and explicit policy force, the Cherokees to sign a treaty by any means necessary. The harassment becomes even worse and turkeys are being terrorized in our own homes and. It just gets even worse Georgia censor vapors into Cherokee nation to measure out the land and divided up. They made a giant map and opened up a lottery to all white people in Georgia. And in October of eighteen thirty two the lottery wheels began to spend the winners descended on Cherokee nation, claiming homes and farms and overrunning entire towns, even John ridges home was awarded to white settlers at this point major and John ridge were out of options. Here's Nancy, again, the ridges had been to Washington DC they had talked to the president. They had talked to congress. They had filed actions with the courts. But none of it mattered. They knew Cherokee nation would not win this fight by sword or by pen and what happens. Next would change not only the course of my ancestors, lives. But the history of Cherokee nation. Rossi's are the everyday flats for life on the go. They're stylish comfortable and go with everything from yoga pants dresses and skirts. 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Out all the amazing styles available right now at Rossi's dot com slash cadence comfort style, and sustainability, these are the shoes, you've been waiting for head to Rossi's dot com. That's R. O. T. H Y. S dot com slash cadence today. According to studies just over ten percent of break-ins, our plan beforehand, the rest are spur of the moment crimes of opportunity. In other words, random there over two million burglaries reported every year. That's one every thirteen seconds. And what's crazy is that only one in five homes have home security? Maybe because most companies really don't make it easy. But that's why SimpliSafe is my top choice. Simply safe, protects your whole home, every window room and door with twenty four seven monitoring for just a fraction of the cost there. Police dispatch is up to three point five times faster because the use video verification, there's no contract hidden fees or find print. It's designed to blend right into your home. No wires. No drilling. It's easy to order an easy to set up usually in under an hour. Visit SimpliSafe dot com slash land. You'll get free shipping and a sixty day risk free. Trial. You've got nothing to lose. Go now and be sure you go to SimpliSafe dot com slash land. So they know our show sent you. That's SimpliSafe dot com slash land. Major ridge and his son. John had no other options left. So they began talking about the unthinkable signing a treaty signing away the title to Cherokee land, east of the Mississippi in exchange for land out west. They decided after some discussions with the government. That it would be in the best interests of Cherokees to go ahead and leave rather than try to fight the whole state of Georgia to stay in their homeland, and they knew that there was serious consequences that they signed the treaty, but they felt they were doing it for the good of Cherokee nation. So some Turkey leaders joined the ridges to form treaty party, but leaving her homelands for the west was controversial. Here's Catherine again. It was very unpopular majority of Turkey's did not support this Cherokee nations council voted the treaty party down many times over the ridges went from respected leaders to being called traitors. It really begins dividing our own people. I feel like is, is the fault of the United States government, and it's ability to be able to divide us. Opposing the ridges was John Ross the principal chief of Cherokee nation. He was also pursuing a treaty with the United States, but on very different terms, rather than moving west. Ross proposed that Cherokees stay and our homelands, but become absorbed by the United States, people were looking into options of becoming a retaining our homelands, and, but then we would no longer be Cherokee or have our government. In other words, there would still be Cherokee people living on Cherokee land, but no tribe. No self-governance no nation. The ridges took the opposite position. They had the foresight to really try to maintain the Turkey government, as a whole and fight for a sovereign Cherokee nation. That's the difference. That's what my ancestors, sacrificed, everything for sovereignty. In December of eighteen thirty five. A small group of Cherokees met in the tribes, old capital with representatives of the US government, major ridge gave a long impassioned speech. Here's what he said, translated into English. I am one of the native sons of this land. I have hunted the deer and Turkey here, more than fifty years. I know the Indian has an older title than there's, we obtained this land from the living God above they obtain their land from the British, yet, they're strong, and we are weak. We are few, and they are many we cannot remain here in safety and comfort. We can never forget these homes, I would willingly die to preserve them, but any, forcible effort to keep them will cost us our. Our lands our lives and the lives of our children. On a cold December night that small unauthorized group of Cherokee leaders signed a treaty that would send tens of thousands of Indians halfway across North America. By candlelight. Twenty men wrote their names unable to speak or write in English. Major ridge signed his with an x. Yeah. Major rid said that when he signed the treaty he said, I've signed my death warrant. Cherokees attempted to reject the treaty with the petition to congress. The vast majority of our tribe signed it, but congress never read it. Instead, the treaty was ratified in the Senate removal of all Indians. From the southeast was imminent Cherokees were rounded up at gunpoint kept in concentration camps, and then forced to March across the eastern half of the United States, starting from present day, Georgia, or Tennessee are people walked all the way to Indian territory. What is now Oklahoma, the young the old the sick, everyone walked for one thousand miles? This was the trail of tears. I don't think people realize either how long people were were traveling so we have we have detachments that left in September October, and they're not arriving into Indian territory until March. And you look at the winter that they're going through and the removing less one of one of the worst winters ever. Before the trail of tears Cherokee nation had about sixteen thousand citizens during the March one out of every four people died. We don't even know. I don't think we'll ever know really what the, the actual toll was on that, because there are people who come into Indian territory, and they're still continuing to be sick and today because of Georgia of the desk on the removal were for young people and an elderly. So, you know, people are angry people are very angry. And they knew who to blame you know they get here Indian territory and everybody. At some point has lost a member of their family, probably. And they placed all the blame on the treaty party. That's why the ridges are controversial among Cherokees many Cherokee, people blame the ridges for the trail of tears. They see the treaty of new coda not as an effort to save Cherokee nation. But as an act of betrayal. After bribing out, west, the ridges built, their home and the new Cherokee nation and lived in relative peace for a few years. That was until the morning of June twenty second eighteen thirty nine. That morning. John ridge was asleep in his house, so were his wife, Sarah, their children and his mother. This son had just come up and twenty five men were standing in his front yard the men gathered in John's yard, they weren't strangers. They were his fellow Cherokees, some of them were people, he had clothed and fed. But today they were there to execute the death warrant John and his father had signed to avenge the deaths of their loved ones who had died on the trail of tears. After dragging, John from his bed into the yard, they stabbed him over and over twenty five times they slid open his throat, Sarah, and the children watched as the men through his body up into the air and let it fall to the ground. They took turn stomping on his chest until it caved in Sarah screamed from the doorway. And then as quickly as they appeared, the men left, Sarah ran to John note beside his broken body, he tried to speak. I often wonder what in his final moments, my ancestor was trying to tell his wife was he trying to comfort her warned her. Maybe he was just saying goodbye. But instead of words all that came from his mouth was blood. John. Steph wasn't just brutal. It was a message a message to everyone who signed the treaty of newest Shota, major ridge was in home that day he was travelling to Arkansas as he crossed the state line, a group of men from that secret meeting the night before tracked him down from the trees. They ambushed and shot major ridge five times, he slumped over on his horse and died. Two generations of my family were killed on the same day. It's a cold windy day at my family's cemetery. This place holds a lot of power for me walking through the rows of my ancestors seeing their names. Remembering their stories. I think about the sacrifices they made. And I don't just mean their debts my ancestors, knew what they were doing wasn't popular, but their decision wasn't about their personal legacy. They weren't thinking about what some museum plaque in the future might say about them. They were thinking about the survival of our tribe. Major and John ridge. Are buried here. My cousin Nancy, and I are visiting their graves there was no stone put up for John ridge. John was buried at night because Sarah was worried that more people would be killed his unmarked. Grave started our family cemetery. Yes, we have a lot of generations buried in this cemetery. Five generations so far, when I'm eventually laid to rest, I will be the seventh. My favorite picture of my grandma was taken in the cemetery in it. She's wearing a white shirt and jeans and a colorful, scarf, lit up by the days, sunshine, she's kneeling in front of the graves of Major John ridge from a small Tupperware container. She's taking dirt and spreading it over the ground. She brought the Sturt this land from our tribes homeland and present day, Georgia back here to Oklahoma, as you know, by now, Oklahoma is not my tribes original homeland, but it is where we have lived for the past one hundred and eighty years. It's where we practice our ceremonies go to church, speak, our language razor, kids, this land is our land. The treaty that the ridges signed promise Cherokee nation sovereignty over this land for as long as the waters ran, and the grass grew that promise was not kept. In nineteen. Oh, seven six decades, after John staff, the government came back wanting more land, they came up with a sneaky way to do it something called allotment and this land, grab is what Oklahoma claims left my tribe, and for others, without a reservation and that's the alternate question before the supreme court did this early nineteen hundreds landgrab in our reservations next time on this land.

Cherokee nation John ridge Major ridge Georgia US Cherokee land John Cherokee supreme court John ridge Cherokee nations council congress president Cherokee nation Turkey Cherokee Major John ridge Oklahoma president Jackson murder
Working it Out with Jillian Michaels

Whine Down with Jana Kramer

1:05:47 hr | 2 years ago

Working it Out with Jillian Michaels

"Most serial killers. Don't make any effort to involve media or best Gators. They're very secretive. They don't want attention. They almost want their crimes to go unnoticed, but the idea of committing a crime, and then calling up the police and bragging about it. That's a whole 'nother level of terror. A man who wore a mediaeval style executioner's hood who has police and baffled. The media seems to crave publicity. He's sent letters and cryptograms newspapers. And the beliefs subject stated how want to report a murder. No, a double murder. I did it here. We are fifty years to the first sodium killing in today's world, forensics old cases are being solved who doesn't wanna know. How it turns out? From the creators of Atlanta monster come season two. This is monster vizo yet killer. Listen as subscribe at apple podcasts or on the iheartradio app. Wind down with Janet Kramer. And I heart radio podcast. I have to piece SOGA. Of course, you do. This is what I do. I think it's inconvenient to P during her day. I think it's the most time consuming most consuming so time consuming after force you to go to the bathroom. He'd do. All right when I asked Jolie Jolie engine. Do you have to go to the bathroom? If you do baddie of you get both at the same time at the airport. You're like God. Like, no. Because in that just wasted five minutes to have to we have to walk down. We have we could have been home, five minutes sooner. We had to sit in an hour of Elliott traffic on the way, home and you wanted to sit that we're having a p. Yeah. Okay. You you literally force me to go to the bathroom. Yes. I do really Jana go to the bathroom. It was like Joliet. Could you guys insane? But you both on your little potties next to each other. The white both of you. No, I just I don't know what it is. But I knew I had to I had to actually p about an hour and a half ago, of course. But again, it's there's so many things I have to do before I use the bathroom like, my friend. Rachel our talking about this when they came to visit over the holidays, and I said, I have to go the bathroom, but then I'm not going to go because I have to do I have to I walked past the laundry. So I have to put the laundry in the dryer. And then I'll stop by their frigerator because I'll probably have to make something for Jolie, and then I'll see something on the counter that ought to do. And then I'll like take a phone call. And then it's five hours later, and I'm like I have a bladder infection. Meanwhile, if I feel like I have to go bathroom just a little bit. Good time goes to go to path room. And I'm gonna stop whatever it is. I'm doing in that moment to go have my time sanctuary. And I realize now that y y when I was a kid my dad would take so long in the bathroom where they had to go number one or two I realized it was escape from the kids. And now, I'm realizing I'm becoming that guy. That's what's so frustrating is because I knowing I know when you're in the bathroom because it's at least twenty to thirty minutes of where's okay? And your I opened the door and you're playing solitaire on your on your phone or something that'd be more realistic five minutes, but even five minutes over time. Thank ten your feet will go you're my legs like go to sleep. If I sit on their longer than that. That's when you know, you're onto long when I stand up or something like my feeder tingling because they fell asleep. From sitting down too long become full on compensation. But since we're on this topic. But the kids I see stolen isn't let me go to the bathroom because of their day. I've actually sat down because I had to and so Julie comes into. Mommy, poo poo. And I was like kind of just have five minutes. Even when I take five minutes. I still won't get five minutes. Archer? She joins us to too. What's funny about you? Is when you're like, hey, can can you hold jas because after the bathroom, and I'll be in the middle of doing something. And you're like, hey, can you hold it in my head? I'm like, what do you do when I'm not here? Like, do you do not, oh, actually, I do know him in my arm literally have. So I was like I to go so bad. I couldn't put him down and kept crying sales. Like James in the potty with me, you ought to one arm cradling them, and I'm like, wiping. That's right. They're fair life anyways. Well, that was a fun little topic for your there, you go put them from poem. And I still have to p ladies. And so we have Jillian Michaels calling in any minute. And I just do realize how big of a fan. I am of hers are fodder. Good until you started geeking out. I know. So I'm such a big fan of hers that I actually went to one of the biggest loser. Finale live tapings in LA. You would I know. I just think it's so good. She's so mean that she's just like awesome. She's like the Abby Lee Miller of of workouts, Irv weight loss loss. I feel like that's you have that persona in you wish you could be more mean, I know, you're you're already an alpha and the boss, but you wish you had more mean in your body. Yeah. Like that. I I feel like I have a lot of people listening right now, Catherine, Greg. You can kind of be me you can. The ones closest to you. We definitely know you can be put your hearts and get a place. They're seeing has has to say about her. Oh, so there's stuff going around right now that she totally dissed the Kito diet. And so so what does the Cato dive into diet is basically the whole thirty. But it lets you have wine in it lets you have some fruits not all through. It lets you have it basically is putting your body to ketosis. Is that the right word nortre? Is that Mark? Yeah. So there's certain things even have it's it's very similar to the whole thirty. But she hated on it and Al Roker a few of the people or Andy Cohen just said, well, basically disturb back. So I'm really curious to see what she thinks is we tried the whole thirty and I wanted to quit every few house like Michael come on. We don't have to do this. We don't have to deprive help justifying everything really wanted my glass of wine. So I'm on the on the wind thirty I'm calling. I'm still doing the whole thirty. But I'm letting myself drink wine because why the F I sent a text message to Juliette I go, look, I'm thirty five year old king adult if I wanna have it. I think glass of wine I'm going to have one because I can justification rationalization. So whatever is what everyone everyone does when they have a New Year's resolution. Everyone was like what? No, I'm an adult. I'm still following some of the rules for the month. We're following a lot of the rules. Besides the Donut is eight. Besides that. I'm pretty sure it was thirty compliant. It was a thought he said we weren't doing that are wasn't until I saw it and going to have to. That's why. From our fault famous. What do you think you're going to ask Chilean? I got questions there is gonna be more like a workout questions. I'm interested. Our two things down. We're talking this. Ask her on there. Okay. Well, that was fun. A lot of fun. You want to discuss the questions now at of all the things she's done. She's done a ton. Right. What does she most appro proud of probably a can't initiate? We're accomplished mercy. Mr problem. Most proud of proud of talk. Oh, by the way, we got into an argument the other day, Mark. And Michael was the biggest a hole in the whole entire we've talked about this. You're supposed to save all arguments for this podcast. This one we could not table. So we got into probably are I blow out in a minute. Yeah. It was a while in. So behaviors come up more like we both kinda pretended. It didn't happen. Talk to my therapist about it though sorta. Yeah. So I we are we going to process it with our couples therapist. We keep him in the dark. Don't need to know. Okay. Well, anyways. So we're in we're in the bed, and he's being really mean because he gets really mean when we argue like says really nasty things off line. I can be mean, by the way, though sidebar when people go off line they also can kill spouses. So that scares me when you say, well when I go off line, I say mean things. I'm not a monster. Maybe these people. Saying, you know, things people can go off line. You never know what to do. Anyways. We got into this argument, and he made fun of how I talk. He was maybe if you speak clearer, and I that shooting with. See, I know he basically says that I don't talk, right. Don't talk. Right. No. It's just you have a different view vocabulary than others. So basically if I said because charter the power outlet, I'm looking at it on the wall. Tools shorts. Charges things. So she's he said, there's a charger on the living room, and I got the living room and look for charger, and there's not a charger out there. And I said there's not a charges. They can't you know, the the thing you plug stuff in like the charger power outlet. She's again that thing. So God bless you, Honey, but e- mocked me. And that was very nice that we're not where I was going with that. That can't be would lead to the argument. No, the argument it we can't talk about it on air. I got triggered. Oh, this is what happened triggered by something. And he was also thinking about so I got triggered. And I will I in that moment. I would have liked if he acknowledged the trigger because he was also thinking too, and I wasn't ready to say, hey, grew topic. We're Julian so let's definitely talk about those okay to call right now. We'll yes. But this is a good teeth. So you will elaborate more after we talked to Jillian it's love your voice, Mark soon. And will elaborate more after we talked to Jillian. Okay. So Michael, and I are moving to Nashville, and we are knee deep right now in designing our home, which is why I'm so excited about joy bird. So each joy bird piece. It's furniture. It's made by hand with care and precision. He's in high quality hardwood in responsibly source materials to fit your exact specifications. They're also a limited lifetime warranty included. So the best part is that there is a three hundred sixty five day home trial. So you skip the furniture store, and you basically bring the showroom home. You get to sit on it sleep on it and break it in. And if you don't love your joy, you return it for a full refund, and it's hassle free in home delivery. But even remove all the packaging materials, and you get free returns within two weeks a delivery. So I just ordered the sotto chair in Taylor felt gray and Maplewood, it's really clean lines. Perfect sized put under a standing lamp or in the corner with a blanket draped over it. It's actually going in our room sweetheart, so yeah. So. Let's see how joy board is revolutionizing online furniture shopping create the furniture that brings you joy today at joy dot com slash Janna. Go to joy dot com slash Janet. And receive an exclusive offer for twenty five percent off your first order by using the code Jonah along with our new furniture. We're also going to be outfitting all of our rooms in our house with the best sheets out there Brooklyn. He's trying to thirty life in your sheets. So if you're looking for a New Year's resolution better sleep is a great place to start ho new year new you at new sheets to that. She's just don't feel amazing. But they look great to mix and match over twenty plus colors patterns, Jane, and I got a different color and pattern for each room. Just to keep it fresh. It's awesome. Brooklyn dot com is giving an exclusive offer just for our our listeners get twenty dollars off and free shipping when you use promo code John at Brooklyn in dot com. Brooklyn is so confident in their product that all their sheets comforters and towels come with a lifetime warranty. The only way to get twenty dollars off and free shipping is to use promo code Jonah at Brooklyn dot com. That's. Be are. Okay. L I N E N dot com. Promo code Janna. Hey jelly. Jillian you great. How are you? I'm good. We've been a little bit hectic lately. But good. So you're in New York right now. Right. I was talking your Instagram last night because I'm a massive fan. So you're in New York promoting your book. Right. Well, thank you. It's totally mutual and die yet that we were in Toronto. And now our New York. So I know how crazy today in the book tour is for you. But I'm just we're so thankful that you called in. Because again, like I said I've been a huge fan of yours for a long time. So I'm just am super. I know I know we only have you for ten minutes. So we're going to drill you right now. Is that cool. Oh, yeah. Okay. So obviously, we have to talk about the drama. That's going on right now about the Kito diet, and the things that you that I'm so sorry. Can we talk about that? Okay. I think it's kind of ridiculous because it's so ridiculous. And the fact that they fired back like that honestly pissed me off. And I wanted to be like, she's just I obviously, you know, more than they they know because you're it's my exactly it's like, it's like you talking about being an anchor person or a host, you know, doing their job. Right. I mean, it's what's interesting about this is that like I spent two years researching this last book, and I had a co author which I very rarely do who special in in the space of anti-aging. And you we together reviewed hundreds of studies interviewed the top. These guys are cook. Euro scientists your scientists that specialize in anti-aging I personally work with some of the top endocrinologists registered dieticians. Like this information is not coming from me. Personally. I didn't just come out and go get I haven't. Lake. Visit this is so by the way, it's also common sense. But you know, had a different so for hito diet. What is what is the problem? You're there. Basically, you're not getting the nutrients that you should beginning. How long answer Reich if they're so many problems with it. So let's first look at what the guy is houses. And it's kind of tough to get to really pin someone down because people do different versions of it. So for example, I'm so sorry. I hang my my eight year old is dancing and the room. I love the gambling and the singing, but if we could keep the singing just right now. And I I by the way, I remember seeing you tailgate fetch with your little girl on stage. So I know that you I totally understand. Patriot. Give the background. It's okay. But so think of it as follows, right? First of all what Kito or most Kito people talk about is like, well, it's low carb right in the whole key is to be in Kito this which means you're depriving your body of carbohydrates to the point of what is quite honestly, considered a state of medical emergency. And the body then starts burning through fat at an accelerated pace. And we think well, that's great. I like who wouldn't think that's great because there's no other source of fuel. In addition people with insulin related health issues, like type two diabetes or poly cystic ovarian syndrome are saying, oh, well, you know, it's helped me reverse all these conditions. And you also think we'll be great, right? But the reality is that you can do all those things with commonsense. Eating balanced macronutrients, right restricting your calories and working out on a consistent basis because by the way. I had peace US as a kid. I was overweight as a teenager. And I not only have myself help eating commonsense. Clean foods bounce Mak rose. But it's helped thousands of other people cheat the exact same thing so point being even get all the good with a healthy diet that has none of the side effects now. So out of all, right. So yeah. Michael and Michael. And I challenged ourselves through the whole thirty this month. We've we've already quit. But do you. Do you feel you? Do you to feel the same way about the whole thirty? No. I mean, don't thirty is just whole foods right for thirty days. Yeah. But mail wine, Jillian, no wine. Okay. I'm a mama too. Okay. Okay. So you know, what's interesting about that? So basically, she's kind of wrap up on the Kito. You're you're you're starving. Your body of fiber micronutrients, vitamins and minerals when you cut out food groups at macronutrients rights in your cells are made up of coaching fat and carb we've seen the diet high saturated fats in animal protein are bad for kilometers, which it'd be tapping your DNA trend that protect yourself. It's taxing them liver. It's tacking on your grenal system tax and your thyroid and the list goes on and on and on. So what you look in the mirror, and you think you've lost weight. You're you're not seeing the damage you doing to your inside long-term. So again, we could go on and on and on. And I write all about it in the book. But what we're talking about line? That's actually, a very this is something I I did about faith. Because for years. I'll go is not great when you're trying to lose weight. Right. So I would say that you know, you gotta stop drinking if you're trying to lose weight, but when it comes to lung jeopardy about up to they see to drink tonight. And I was just in my mind. I was like, okay. That's a lot of alcohol over the course of a lifetime. And we do know that drinking too much is related to ovarian cancer, breast cancer and can contribute to a BC even red wine like the good Ridwan. Okay. So think sixty eight drinks a week max and no more than two to three max on night as fine. I just want one and night, Jillian one a night. That's fine. That's good for you. So ran the aging it helps to remove amyloid plaques associated with Alzheimer's from from your brain, literally take a bath. For your brain is helps keep your liver primed with specific enzymes and improve detects vacation in digestion. These when we really talk detoxing that's the job of your liver. Nothing else is doing that. Except your long your liver your Spain. It's not sweating. It's not starvation and not eating it's making sure those organs function optimally and keeping your liver prime to the little bit of alcohol actually helps you do that at read one has a lot of antioxidants and polyphenyls didn't like raspberry trawl to help fight free radicals. So you're you're doing fine there can we drink lined together. Sometime. I would love to. Yes. That's janice. Happy she set for the day. She she's needed to know that she can hang out with you. And also justify her wine drinking. Houthi? Right. And that's in. That's the thing to brings me to my question. Jillian is obviously so many people cross the country, especially during the month of January. You know, new year new me and all that stuff. They want to die. They went to work out. What is your advice from your profession year experience for someone you know, who is trying to change their eating habits or workout habits? What's their advice? What's vice for them to stick to it? Okay. I I would say a balanced approach one that isn't too extreme one way or another. Whether it's fitness or food is not only better for you. But it's more sustainable, but the second thing is at the end of the day anything with having right? Whether it's a flourishing career, healthy relationship. A healthy body is going to require work and some sacrifice. But if you have a y you can tolerate the how and the how is the work on the sacrifice associated with the goal. And that's what we say like work with a purpose because passion, but work without purpose. Just feels punishing. I think we were to feel punishing up by the stressors of our daily lives, you really gonna stop and think how is my life gonna improve go to the gym for twenty minutes day instead of just going home and picking up takeout and sitting on the couch towards my favorite show. Because it sounds good to me in this moment. And I mean like. Details is it meeting. Your kids kids looking good in a wedding dress. Is it wearing a two piece instead of a one piece is it sex with the lights on which I happen to think is greatly overrated. But you know, what it's about the day from us. You want out our option, right? Did does it matter? What the reasoning is along as you care about it. Right. And if you care enough, you'll do the work, and it won't be or if it that's fantastic. And so it relaying that message everybody. What's your y every day, Jillian, like what motivates you to do the work that you do across the board? I I have so many, right? I of course, now like you guys I have young kids, and I wanna be around for them. I wanna meet their kids. I would love to meet their kids kids. I wanna sit an example from my kids. I wanna be the mom that's like powerful and strong and on the ski slopes with them shooting hoops with them not like on the sideline, you know, kind of with a soda in my hand, not that I judge any of the parents. But for my kids, I wanna be in their lives not on the sidelines of their lives. And I want to show them. Okay. To make time for yourself. It's okay. To make yourself a priority. Because then you're better able to support other people so family, of course, it'd be number one. And you know, like any other human I wanna look good. I would be good about my body and feel comfortable in my own skin. I wanna wear skinny jeans and feel good in them. And I think there's anything wrong with that. And it doesn't mean you shouldn't feel good at any size. I personally feel better when I'm size for beating. What makes you happy? That's okay. I feel healthy and strong. That's amazing. Jillian you have your new book out right now. It's six keys unlocked. I'll let you just use it. I just got time crime. Six keys to unlock your genetic potential for ageless, health, strength, and beauty and bottom line. It's an anti-aging book. And I'm not today that in the whole idea is that we should want to be the best version of ourselves for years to come. So whether you your grandparents had Alzheimer's, and you want to prevent it or take every step you can to prevent it. Or again, you just wanna look and feel great and every decade of your life. This book is designed to help you do that. Well, Jillian, we love you. I love everything you're about. So thank you so much for coming on the show to talk to us. We appreciate it and good luck with your book. I mean, I'm going to get it right now. I wanna hold you to that one day the next time. Whereas if they did he got oh, yes. Please. She'll hold you to it. Hi gillian. Very I she wants to avoid with me. That's amazing. I just like the fact that she's 'cause when I work out with Aaron she'll be like, no wine, and it's like, Erin, you know, I'm going to have won it. But I think it's all about like she said, it's moderation. It's not about starving your body of things. And I think when we did the whole thirty we started we took away things that we like you're saying witches. Yes. Do you have to have a sandwich every single day and have breads Ross's? No. But it's things in moderation, which I think is important set of just completely taking everything I diet because we're going to put those things back in even though I'm not doing I'm not doing cheeser dairy this month, and and carbs, grains. But I'm going to have those again. So why why do I am Hannah? It's just it's just so fad to me. Join were saying it's all about balance. Whatever kind of change you making your life in. If people just drastically changed everything they do for a new year their new year New Year's resolution, then that just added add so much stress onto whatever stress. They are to have an airline. Granted it depends on your mentality to like for me personally personally. Speak for yourself. Honey. I know that for like carbs Burr, sandwiches, and everything I just love sandwich at lunch. I have to cut it out completely. Why you can't just have one of the otherwise I'm just saying for the time being for this month. Okay. Because otherwise, I will have one one day. And it's like I hadn't we should. I'll have another does really good. I'll have another one. The next thing. He knows like four days in a row had a sandwich. So. Example. I know I know, but then, you know, what's the point of even quote unquote, dune a diet, if we're not going to do something just trying to break my habits, which is why I wanted to do not have the protein Barbara single morning actually make breakfast, and we've made much isn't had salads or I never I never actually eating real fits right at that. You never launched. I was had seen what she was. So now, we're actually having substantial meals at lunch. Yeah. Oh, I do have a question though for either by about working out. So I have made the workouts for the calendar. But yet you've not come out to work out. So you say you wanna work out, and I put it on the calendar. Then why don't you fall through with it? So you're being basically, you're doing. I'm I'm ever said committed. I never said. Yeah. Absolutely. I'll do I'll be there just that you want to work out with me for you. I think for me the times that you work out our mind lease motivating times in the day. In my Marshall, rear and everything I was mostly first thing in the morning. Mike six AM up now. Right. But again now, we have kids and all that Sylvester's not a realistic thing when we're up with the infant right now. But I the way Michael real upset last night. And he likes slammed his hand into the wall. That was rough zombie. I don't even remember that really eat out not really idea. I remember you going, and then I next here. A hand to the as Michael switch now immediately. Go to bed is ignored under. I I don't going to get him go to the room immediately. Arterial between my legs and down wasn't as it can be so frustrating when they keep crying. But that's that's only got tag out Arno. But anyways. So I the first thing in the morning or later, this is your time isn't motivating for me. So I just have to find my own time tapping out so long with Michael and I eating healthy were also adding in a healthier overall lifestyle. So you can ditch all the expensive gym membership personal trainers and nutritionists so with Neum, okay? They help you educate on a healthier lifestyle and habits. Neum doesn't say you can't have certain foods. So that means you can have things in moderation. And that's exactly what they're teaching weight loss is in the palm of your hand, literally on your phone whenever and wherever you need it. You don't have to be a celebrity to have personalized training of your own support system. What I also love about noon to is that there's a community there for you. There's group discussions with fellow new members to keep you encourage an all for less than the price of a single appointment with the new. Traditionalist or personal trainer, and it's so easy. I just had to take the thirty second quiz and the Email mic. Custom course that would help me reach the goal that I want the even sent out a fourteen page packet covering details of your goals for your health and mental wellness or eating habits, and what new eating habits you want. It's literally an online nutritionist new MRs on fears, alz meet your resolutions by signing up for your trial today at noon, N O, M dot com slash Janet. What do you have to lose? Visit Neum dot com slash Janet to start your trial today. Again, that's Neum dot com slash Janna. Start losing weight for good a hoot win an easy task to accept a lot of your day. We'll also you just did this with Jolie and you wanted to pull your hair. Oh, it you don't have hair my bathroom, but works almost going to post office to send letters and packages about sandstone Arnaud you have. And finally, I'm giving in Jan has been on it for a while. Now, conforming stamps dot com brings all the amazing services of the US postal service right to your computer. Not only saves you time it saves you money as well. Send you a scale too. So if you're sending a package, it's super super, easy, and convenient and reliable and officiant. And now you too can enjoy the stamps dot com service at the special offer that includes a four week trial plus postage, and like I said the digital scale so start the new year off right go to stamps dot com. Click on the microphone at the top of the homepage type in Jannah that stamps dot com and enter Jannah. All right. So it's for Tilleke time. Dr Kristen Bendix is going to be on the phone dialing in her right now. She's an assistant professor of can ever say this word at gynecology USC. Kristen sorry. Dr Kristen this is a Jonah and Mike. Hi. I'm good. How are you guys? So we are super excited to talk to you. Because Michael, and I did an event a couple of weeks ago. We did a live podcast event down in Santa Monica. And we held basically a live QNA for people to our fans to ask us questions and one of the reoccurring questions that came up time and time again was about infertility. And so that's why we wanted to have you on talk talk a little bit more about infertility. And then also we really want people to eat mother questions into. So we'd love to have you back on the show. So you get into some of the questions that come in butter. It sounds great. Okay. Awesome loop so Michael, and I have done a couple rounds of Ivy f-. And so we have now two kids. So we are we are officially I believe I think done having kids, but are you ever officially then? That's the thing Michaels about to make his snipped appointment, and I was driving in the Car Toys bay. But I was like are. I mean, maybe maybe we. Should try. I don't know after last night with Jay speeding up. I was like, yeah. We're done. We do we have a seven week old. And so he's in the midst of. Yes, all that ten and twelve and I remember those days very vividly. But I do have a question though, about that was to happen. So I'm thirty five. So technically, I'm geriatric pregnant. I'd be geriatric pregnancy. Right. No, I thought thirty compared to my patients, you're young technically, though, thirty five isn't that geriatric was they call it. No, no one goes. I mean, it's horrible to call anything geriatric that. I mean, I think after the age of thirty five there are it can get harder to get pregnant there can be more complications. And so, you know, you just have to kind of keep a closer eye on certain things. But most pregnancies really aren't that different after the age of thirty five then before what about biologically may causes more difficulty? Once a woman is because thirty five is relatively young still in the big picture of life. What about it makes it so much more difficult getting pregnant or in the SAFA boss both getting pregnant and also any in the increased risk of complications throughout. So in terms of actually getting pregnant the. Biggest issue is that the eggs are older. So women's eggs are in there overage since before they were born, and so and they're not actually fully developed, and so they go to their final stages of development at the time of like when the eggs being released it relation, and when it's getting fertilized by the sperm, and so all the little mechanical parts that are responsible for guiding that egg so that developmental process like if you're trying to get pregnant thirty five is little mechanical parts of thirty five if if you're trying to get pregnant at forty those mechanical parts are forty and so just like mechanical parts of a phone a car, computer, you know, what they just fail in screw up. And so unfortunately with the egg when those will mechanical parts go like when things go badly. Then oftentimes, it leads to an embryo, which is just a you guys. I mean, if you've been driving if you know, it's just a fertilized egg that embryo just can't become. A pregnancy. And so the issue is is as you get older, those mechanical failures are become more common. And so what that results in is that when you release Neg each month. It's just less likely that that eg can become a pregnancy. And so it just might you know, that's why it can take longer to get pregnant. And that's also what causes miscarriages to go up as you get older because it was saying mechanical errors lead to chromosomal abnormalities. I don't know if you guys had your embryos tested. During the hosting that we had done was a couple years ago. So I know now they test Twenty-one chromosomes. Yes. So we test all we can test all the chromosomes and the testing the, you know, the technology that we have is you know, it's better than it was three years ago, which was better than five years ago. It's always refining and getting a little bit better. And all of that testing is just it's really just chromosome counting. And your your mind, let's say in let's say in twenty years, where do you think we're going to be out with infertility and the progress of where the medicine is going? What would be really amazing as a way to kind of figure out in a much less invasive way, what the issues are with embryo not. I bet you we are not going to be doing a biopsy and twenty years anymore in order to test. The embryo we're going to be able to look at you know, the media that the embryos growing in embryos that are abnormal or going to like spit off kind of like toxic things, we're gonna be able to measure those things and the culture media and just kind of figure out from there, which we can put in. We certainly are going to have much better capability of kind of testing for things like your predisposition for diabetes and other types of diseases like that I mean, I think it's a fine line of like where we ethically kind of start intervening too much in terms of what we're choosing. Problem. He'd said he didn't he felt like he was almost playing God. In a way, the one aspect of it. I was kinda like just put, you know, put her egg in there with sperm in kind of let the best man win. Almost kind of thing. You know, what the way I was explained to my patients that IBM is kind of happening in some aspect. Anyway. Like when they're getting the sperm ready for two right before they do the fertilization this. They're prepping the sperm and like they're only selecting from the very best berm. So it kind of Saint process that would happen normally in the body is kind of happening in the lab to some extent. And yes, if you're doing procedure called XY again, I don't know if we did it like, they're painting. It was hard for him to pick. Yeah. Like, they're picking one sperm and putting it into the edge. But it's random like they can't. I mean, they're picking the best which is exactly. So in a way mimics point on the body. Right. Like, you're picking from the best because only the best sperm in the body. You're going to get to the egg. Well, only the best sperm are going to be in that final sample in the lab. And then it's really random like there's millions of sprint that are surrounding that little egg in the floppy into and so it's really random which one binds to the egg, and it's really random which one the embryologist happens to pick the. Into the so it's kind of both, you know, all about like how good the sperm is and a little bit of randomness and those situations so fascinating nine it's really nice. Think about that every time I do an egg retrieval. I'm like, I cannot like how is it possible that I can just stick this needle into this little dog all drain it, and we somehow get an egg. Truly is a miracle. When you go through the process as us known in. That's what Janon I've told people that that we have some friends that are beginning the process right now. And we say the same thing, I it's truly a miracle when you get down to the science of it all and like Janus saying we've got a lot of questions when we're doing by podcast. And what would you have what kind of device, do you have for couples or women that are going through the early stages of v f you know, just mentally and physically how to prepare themselves. I think probably the most important thing is to try to kind of take care of yourself a little bit is so easy to get wrapped up in the process. And it's so emotionally draining. Those medicines. Make you crazy. Yeah. And yet medicines like impact like how you're feeling. And so to the extent that you can to anything even if like once a day to like keep yourself centered not like stress about little things like it, drives me bananas. Like when people tell patients like, oh, you can't have any caffeine, and you kind of went of alcohol, and you see you have to eat this and do this, and that leads to this restrictive life that is so miserable and causes so much more stress in an already really stressful process. So, you know, doing things that kind of can get us through and knowing that like, you might need to lean on the people around you and reaching out when you need help and finding some like knowing that it is because it's going to be stressful like finding that kind of support network, whatever it is for you. And maybe that's not a person maybe that's writing in a journal. But something that kind of can get you through the process. So. I guess. I I it's just so hard because I just I feel I mean, sometimes I feel guilty. Because you know, now, we have the people are always asked me, you know, how do you stay positive and in the moment, and I say to them try to say positive, but in the moment, I couldn't even stay positive because you don't know what the outcome is going to be now, I can look at the outcome. Be like, oh now we have two beautiful kids. So I guess I I know what you're trying to say is you're trying to say to stay centered. But it's just so hard when it really hurt you want that family, and then you want to be hopeful. Right. Like, you don't wanna be a pessimist going in the into it. And yet at the same time like the hopeful is so scary because it leaves you so vulnerable, and you're just kind of open to that fact that is just not going to work. And I think you know, depending on how old you are. And what the circumstances are sometimes the chance that it's going to work as a low. And so how do you kind of manage kind of going through this entire process without just being like emotionally crushed at the end. I I don't really know. Anyway, they're kind of really mitigate that and kind of keep that from happening. Prepare you for that roller coaster physically and emotionally until you go through. And knowing that I think is nuts actually, huge is that there are so many ups and downs of like, oh, you're so happy because you have this many eggs in like, oh, you're devastated. The next day because the fertilization is poor. And then they call you the next day, and they say oh embryos are developing. And then oh. Normal. It's like the obstinate downs. And that's in downs. That's really, you know, it's it's draining situation. So we actually got the baseball children Gina became pregnant naturally for both news times. It was one month after a failed IVF cycle is that common from your experience. It ha- having all the time. And you know, we don't think that it's like it has actually anything to do with IBS because like the IDS process doesn't really do anything to kind of change. What's going to happen in the next cycle? But we see it all the time. I'm taking the progesterone and things he my system gone. Like, why don't you stop faking it it's gone in that affect doesn't kind of carry over to the next month? And I did get pregnant though each time. Yeah. New I mean, like with with IBS, so maybe CG in my system. Then you have to start you on your next cycle. Like, you won't get your period until all that. It's like kind of all those hormones like kind of washed out of your body but tiny that your period. I was I mean, it's probably yes. Is it common that like it would happen so closely to both IBM cycles and the answer is obviously. No. But we see it all the time. I mean, literally just takes one good thing. One good sperm. You know, interesting. Yeah. All right. Well, so we're gonna have our listeners right in see you guys right in Jana, Kramer, iheartmedia dot com, and then Dr Kristen Bendix in you're going to answer the question so excited to have you back on. And we just really we hope you guys emailing again, Jana Kramer, iheartmedia dot com, and she will answer your questions. Now. I think it's it's so important. It's there are so many women that struggle with infertility and to the extent that we can make the pass more transparent. So they just kind of understand what for tilde treatments are all about, you know, understanding miscarriages where such are which is such a like not spoken about subject and kind of also egg freezing. You know, in terms of just what we can do to prevent people from having to go through IVF later. So there's a lot of digging their absolutely well, thank you so much. Talking with you soon. All right. It looks like all right by you know, what is sad actually the other the other night. I you scrolling on my phone, and I saw looking through my video just kind clearing some videos out of my phone, and I saw the video of December. How we'd tracked IVF processing I put it on YouTube, by the way that Yang face was nasty. You know that we're he's trying not to yawns is making a weird face. That just happened. But I I was just watching the video, and it just it pained me because I was crying and found out that we lost lost the the baby or the embryo guests. Because it was only I was only a few weeks that time, but and the now look at it like man, I wish I wish I could go back and say it's going to be okay, you're going to have a baby in in a year and a half for all sounds so easy. I just I for the women out there that are struggling I I have a lot of empathy for you. But hopefully, you can see the silver lining with other people's stories are that's exactly what just being the spouse in the situation and witnessing you go through it is the people around the female going through this process is all you can do is being pathetic. Don't try to say make any promises. Don't try to say it's going to be okay. Even to say that sucks and just allow you to feel feelings because there's nothing like Atkins says the husband make you feel better. You should say more than that sucks. No. But I'm saying just feel there. You know what I mean? It hurts me too. Because I know we I want this family instead of just that sucks. Like crying in the far turn. All right. Well, anyway on the rest of our day. I don't mean like that not dismissive. Do you wanna read try that? No because I'm imperfect. I love that. Ben. Thanks. So there's usually a clear path for Valentine's Day gifts for women flowers, candy, jewelry, but for men, not usually a simple things candy. It's funny with this. I love me create so much that actually think it's a clear gift for men this holiday season for Valentine's Day women's actually harder because women might not want the same thing again flowers cards, numerous Dinan, Stein stem. I shouldn't say diamonds diamonds diamonds, and maybe some flowers kidding, man. Crates knows what guys like and they have hundreds of gift options. So you'll find the perfect surprise for him. And take it from me. There are over one hundred different kinds of man crates. I have multiple it's amazing I disorder the make your own chef knife in the kitchen, and I can't wait for it to come unique gifts like the personalized bar crate personalized pint glasses bottle opener and the pizza grilling create with some pizza stones and two sided dough roller is just one. A few examples of the crates that they have out there, given unforgettable Valentine's Day gift this year. Plus every man Kate comes with a one hundred every man came every man crate comes with a one hundred percents satisfaction guaranteed in there about nine thousand with me too. So I agree with that get him a man, Craig, plus one of their media Valentine's Day gifts and save gesture Valentine's Day, get fourteen percent off when you spend one hundred dollars or more a man, crates dot com slash wine. That's fourteen percent off when you spend one hundred dollars or more at man, crates dot com slash wine, man, man, crates dot com slash one. That's W H I N A, we should point out. All right. So we can talk about the argument. We can talk about the argument, by the way, John is still has not relieved herself. I still have to be. Kind of. But let's just get this over with so fan mardi onto thunder. Okay. So the other night, Michael. And I something happened. And I it was a Butte was beautiful, but I got very triggered afterwards. And I wanted to say something to him and express 'cause you know, our therapists say if you're feeling something expressed in a way like, hey, I'm. I just felt trigger. And I want you to know. So that I don't take it outside weighs on him. But I didn't say anything because the moment was so great that I didn't want to ruin it. So I didn't say anything and in the back of my mind. I was hoping that he was in a come to me an acknowledged because I was hoping that he was feeling the same trigger because the situation we both know was it was a major trigger in going to. Yeah. It was one of the few if not the last kind of major trigger that we haven't addressed or experienced to this point. So. It became the biggest elephant in the room in that moment. Yeah. So we went to bed on. Yeah. We went to be out went to bed, but without us really talking about the elephant in the room. And I thought about it all night long. I was really upset. I cried about it. I was I mean, I didn't sleep at all. Because I was so upset, and I I was gonna say something. But then I was you know, thought to myself. Okay. The next morning. It's probably just going to pass will in the next morning. It did not pass. And so Michael trying to talk to me on Saturday. And I just I stayed pretty muteness. I just some really not ready to talk right now. I just need some time is basically what I said, right? Before we brought up situation. Yeah. Yeah. Remember because I took like half a day your morning. I was like I knew something was going on with you. Yeah. You weren't ready to say what it was. Yeah. And so then we I finally brought it to you. And I we were sitting down on the couch. You're you were reluctant burst reluctant at first because I was afraid of your reaction. And I got validated in my fear of his reaction. So I sat down I was telling him. How it how that night made me feel and how I got triggered. And these are the things that came up for me. And you did not listen to me, you went straight into your shame, and basically it validated. And for me. I have the hardest time and we just talked about in therapy. I I the hardest time bringing up a fear of something. Because I don't want him. I didn't want his reaction to the off. So the fact that you validated. My fear, which I know I've done to you to plenty of times, and it sucks, but that when that happened. I just completely. I mean, we I was so upset I went into the bathroom. You started to get mean. And I started crying. So I went into the bathroom was crying. And then you come in guns blazing and it just escalated from there, which then you triggered more soft because now you're elevated to a screaming point and then. Once I got off line after that because you had already and now's like man, I'd did what I was supposed to do. I told you what I was feeling. And then you didn't hear me. Michael. I wanna make sure that you feel hurt right now. And I don't just go Bill -fensive. Yes, you're right. I did not handle it correctly in ultima tely. I apologize profusely for. Not addressing elephant room in real time. Which I wanted to what it came down to is. I didn't have the balls in that moment because I knew it was such an impactful trigger. I was scared. I was scared to do it. And because we've been on such good Ryan everything's been so great we've handled things appropriately. So for this situation. I was just kind of reverted back to kind of subconsciously of maybe if I don't address we won't talk about it and everything being okay? And sweep it under the rug which never worked Russ and most couples doesn't some does. But not for us. So we even when I was trying to convince you to talk to me about it and reassure knew that I wasn't the place. Even I didn't know how is going to react in my mind. I was like, okay, I can handle this. I can I can listen to her. But then for me anytime, I get any opposition. When I start to speak about it or speak about anything that's shameful triggering or traumatizing for me. If I think by trying to hear you I didn't feel heard. But that was my mistake. I was trying to feel heard when you were trying to feel heard was that's not how it works. I have to hear you first at the valid at your feelings. I've I have to especially as the perpetrator I have to empathize with you. So you can feel heard understood, etc. But we've had this discussion argument many times where I rush that. And I try to feel heard immediately or I tried to explain something. I try t- t. Yeah. Yeah. It was me try to explain something. Then anytime you'd ask ask a question it would trigger me because I'm just trying to explain to you about the situation talked about the trigger. And then you'd ask a question about it in. I'll feel like yeah. I didn't feel heard. I felt you weren't listening to me. I'll see on a tact in the feeling attacked about shameful situation. Just I mean throw me in a polish name. It's I think it's a good topic to talk about the fact that we were both. There was the elephant in the room. It's why we couldn't. I mean. I know I I didn't. I know why you didn't. But then the same time. It's like I wanted you to step up and say, hey, I'm sorry that this triggered you. And I know you're probably thinking about it. Because of course, I'm thinking about and that's what I will. I want the guys to here to their wives or girlfriends within listen to this is the fact that we're we don't ever forget. So it's always it's always in the back of our of our minds. So if something. From an old argument or old whatever happened that was a break in your relationship. I promise you if that situation might come up again that they're thinking of it. So you should address it and the ham. Sorry, this may be causes some pain just taking responsibility for your actions. Right, which you should do all aspects of life in that's living with integrity in that moment. I didn't because I just wanted to run a run away from those feelings also said something as well. But I was just so. But even even with my therapist, I discussed it with him. And I defended you st- for you and said, I acknowledged that in this situation. It was one hundred percent up to me to bring it up because it was an undiscussed unprocessed trigger that we have not gone through. So because even he said, you know, we'll you'll she can equally bring it up, and especially I was like in this situation, which you do. But this this particular situation was up to me, and I put that one hundred percent on my shoulders, and it just it just was handled poorly in that. But that's just goes to show. Like, we don't even we talk about all this stuff on on the show. We still go through the. And we do not do perfectly which is why you were very mean. Saint really mean, but we rebounded faster than we usually do. So this the moral the story is I don't know how to talk apparently. Because when Mike's mad at me, he mocks me. And that was our big fight, and we got triggered. And there was a few things that were thrown. A few punches Jesus. Now, I'm getting but I did like, I mean, my ice cream so loud, my voice hurt. Like it got real redneck in our household. Like, my voice. I hadn't have a voice good old days. I know. Still got it. But it, but honestly it made me the next day. I was super depressed because it made me so sad that we went back. There are agree. I totally agree. It was it was really sad. I was very disappointed in both of us that we allow. Ago. But no just in this situation handling things, especially triggers real time is the particularly that's that's what you gotta do. When there's when there's stuff like, listen less. There's your Hugh. This episode titled Janna, really can't talk. There's your lesson listeners. All right. So I'm sure you're full bladder is not helping. So we don't get to know the actual instigating moment. Basically, Mark, you're such a producer. You just such a producer. I can see the the us weekly headlines now, I just feel like all the listeners are very curious. And of course, it's your life, and it's up to you. But I know that's what they're thinking. How do you know how to say in a way to scoot around it? There was a sexual something sexual that Mike had done sexually with someone else. A while that we never really discussed and we something happened. And then that yeah. So yeah. So it was very hard. It was hard. It was tough. It was a tough pill. This walla. So it was a flash back to that memory of knowing that they did something like that. So it was it was tough. Well, thanks for asking. Mark. Into a spot. Well, have an Email, which probably isn't going to help things to be honest. I appreciate it. It's an anonymous Email, my husband and fortunately had an affair. We are three months post me finding out when I found out I took off my wedding ring and took on all of the wedding pictures as we are in marriage counseling, we've decided to move forward. But I'm struggling putting my wedding rings back on and putting out wedding pictures back up. I feel like both are tainted at this point. How did you overcome the feelings associated with those and be able to put the rings back on the pictures back up? So we have not officially put the pictures back up. It has been how many years post criminal. Five year four years. Maybe I'm saying infidelity, two and a half. So it's been two and a half years post discovery, and we have still not hung our wedding photos up. There are still photos that I have hard time looking at from our past because it triggers me to what was going on that moment having said all that when we packed up our stuff in Nashville, I saw the been that I through all of the pictures in Oliver wedding photos, all the knickknacks that were for us our wedding book photos of when I was pregnant. I mean, just so many things that I said I will never be able to look again, look at again you stole all those memories for me. And I I I yelled at him so much for that. I said you you took away this for me away that and now I can't look back at this photo and be happy. But. It is it took two years to really now be able to go back and look at it and say, okay. Those memories were still my memories. I still was there. And I was present. Not saying you weren't present. But it was a different version of president. I'm how do I say that? It's it's not that you weren't present you weren't fully there. But it doesn't mean that you can take away those memories from me. So I shouldn't allow you to take members for me. So for the listener that wrote. Don't let him have hold that much power over those memories for you. But it takes time. Again, I am I want to I I don't even know if I want to hang our wedding photos in our new house. I don't know your that's something soy for her. It's been three months. You said Mark three months. Yeah. Which is nothing. I and I'm on two and a half Dylan even know if our new house will even put that up there because in in all honesty, like we've had some photos from like, you know, the the pregnancy shoot. And all that that I love the became when you had a most bone up for me. I'd rather have those to the new one the new one. Yeah. Yeah. And we put up our when we renewed. So this here's what I would say for the photos to we renewed our vows in in Hawaii. So we have that photo up. So it's putting the photos up that are new in real. And in time. I hope we can hang one of our old photos and say, you know, what look how far we've come. And you can really proud of the photo. That's their us. It makes me sad. Just because the I loved our our wedding photos were beautiful beautiful. It was perfect. And it makes me sad to to think about having to be hesitant reluctant to even look at those photos. They're essentially tainted think once we are to that place where we can both have that mentality. And look at them in not think about where we were then. But appreciate where we are. Now. Then when we're to that point, maybe we can put him up. And I think too we we did something that might help you guys as well as we grieved. There was a box of photos, and I said, oh, no, no. It was the I made you a. A year is our year in aversive gift. He gave him a year anniversary gift of all the photos of the year. And at the very end mess that can't wait to see what next year holds. And I was like well in our came to you. Yeah. And when we're moving our former national house, and we sat down, and we looked through it, all and we grieve. Yeah. And I'm we might have to eat to do that with the wedding photos. We might have to do that again. And honestly, I want to because I want to be able to hang those photos and not just think of that. So hopefully, and but I will say to you, you are three months and give yourself time. Don't don't you shouldn't even be thinking about that in in two. So you can't say that. Because I mean, I still I mean, I was so upset about that. Like you ruin those these photos from your arm. So I'm saying don't think about putting the you don't have to worry about putting the pictures up right now or your your wedding band wedding. Ring I understand that's what you think of. 'cause it ruined all of those things which also Jan, and I both got new new engagement not put that ring back on my I said, I don't want it. I don't want this rank ever on my finger. I got a new. Band. So that way there aren't those you don't look down. And the ring the symbol isn't tainted. So for us that was important. And even if I says, I only care about what it is. I just want. I will not put this back on my finger and said all right me neither. So I it's really good advice for the anonymous emailer that if you're going to recommit to yourself post things, and where things that represents the new commitment that you're making. Wow, that's great Jericho emails. You Jacka don't kiss my baby is the subject line. So I'm newly pregnant, but I automatically know not to kiss them with newborn baby. I don't think it's appropriate at all to begin with, but efforts horror stories about babies and people kissing them. How do you not be rude? But make sure hey, don't kiss my baby. Anyone puts their lips near Jason's. Let. I'm gonna smack him. I don't like I'm a people kissing this germs to the baby. Someone I've got to tell you this. We're at Disneyland watching the parade someone recognized Jolie, and like gave her a hug, and I was like you. I don't even know you all the girls we were just like got so upset Jerusalem. Toan regroup. I totally forgot. Well, there's a lot going on that day like fifteen hours. Disneyland was a lot toddlers when I came home. I didn't wanna talk to anybody. So, but no, yeah. It was it's a g-. If you if you're a stranger hundred percent, don't don't touch my child. But then if it's family, it's still don't really want th-. I mean, yes, you can kiss the baby. But don't lips are totally off subject. I think it's one of those things we're even have to remind ourselves with jase. Where's parents? We say goes. Yeah. So try to have the kind of a home in Tallahassee be like look now don't kiss my baby. I the whole face is off limits. Absolutely. Come. How come on a fun grandma's enhance has the only babies I've ever excuse me. Only. And when you're taking care of them, you kiss their cheek therefore, I'm like constantly, if you're very close family, that's the only PM or like, a best friend. That's fine. But like a random friend, even dicey on the friends. I kiss syracus his head this. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean if it was a. If it was anybody, but like my sister's pregnant that'll be my first nephew my first niece nephew. I'm sorry. This is a great topic to bring up I do not think. The niece and nephew mouth. So he actually does have a niece nephew, my brother's kids. But this is my point is that what you do not think of that do. No, you don't clearly this is my first. You're not babies it does it does it. Okay. No, baby. Hey, I'm not gonna call you uncle anymore. Bill on I'm talking. Your idiot idiot walked right into that one. No, I do consider even doing my niece and nephew. You know, there are twelve and thirteen guy. So maybe not right all on sane my point used as Joe, yes, you're noon. Your your first ever our our first. Now, I I have one nephew think our new nephew like him. I would kiss but a friend's baby. Even or anybody else's. Nobody else's. I would do it. If it was if Steven was just now having even Dylan. Yes, I would kiss them because I am there on coal. And I consider them my niece and nephew when I met him there. Seven and eight had like three uncles before you, so it's that right? I mean for all acres up and Jan has got another cohere. We're not calling him uncle. If I saw Jay's I don't I'm not going to hold Jason. That's like what unless you were like, hey, can you one hundred percent whole kissed him? You're right go in through in without permission. But like my nieces. Yeah. I think there's like that's the line. I know my friend. I Davie come on. It's my best friend's baby. I wouldn't want him wear cheek in the her yet. I would never do lips. No, I like make out with my baby. I always try to. I know I was there when he's hungry because when I kiss him you start sucking on my upper lip. Yeah. I'll legis lips are off off off limits for we don't blame you. Okay. So huge. Thank you to joy bird. Good. A job are dot com slash Jannine. Receive an exclusive offer for twenty five percent off your first order by using the code Janna Brooklyn and get twenty dollars off and free shipping when you use promo code, John at Brooklyn dot com. Visit Neum dot com slash Jan. Start your trout today stamps com. Go to stamps dot com. Click on the microphone at the top of the homepage and type in Janna man crates. I know baby wanted to just for Valentine's Day gift fourteen percent off when you spend one hundred dollars a more man, crates dot com slash wine. You may have been wondering what doughnut Mike with eating Michael what was the Donut that you ate earlier from the one we Astro donuts and fried chicken downtown L A's beloved after donors and fried chicken is crossing the four or five in opening Santa Monica this February and you can follow along an afro donuts for a taste. It's delicious. Okay. Seriously, though, like I I have to be like I'm starting. I need to be now frowning I starting to like, I don't know if I'm going to be able to walk like, I think I need a diaper. Walk. A catheter up there to help make them out. All right, guys love you. Let's went down next week together by.

Michael Jillian Michaels Janet Kramer Jolie Jolie US Jana Kramer Mark murder Brooklyn iheartradio Jonah Mike Dr Kristen Bendix Atlanta Joliet Elliott Rachel Archer Julie
BPR Full Show 8/3/20: The Doctor Is (Back) In

Boston Public Radio Podcast

2:45:39 hr | 1 year ago

BPR Full Show 8/3/20: The Doctor Is (Back) In

"Support, for Boston, public radio comes from DC. You offering a checking account with three levels of benefits. You can visit one of their twenty, two locations throughout Massachusetts and new. Hampshire to learn more. What will dc you mean to you insured by NCUA membership required ahead on Boston public radio while the rest of Masters, move forward with reopening gyms, movie theaters, museums, several Joe to Tony told US residents. He was hitting the brakes courtesy. Tony has long been critical of the governor's approach to reopening, which he has called a hot mess in a few minutes. Join US tell us why splitting with Governor Baker when it comes to combating the Corona virus in two thousand, thirteen after intense manhunts. Duo, behind the Boston bombing was sentenced to death at the time, his lawyers argued for the traffic take place outside Boston said, the intense media scrutiny emotionally charged atmosphere here. Make it impossible for a fair trial. Now, a federal court has vacated. Sir Steph sentence accused the judge overseeing the trial not screening Jerusalem potential biases in a few minutes here from Andrew Cabrera about this and more, and then will open the lines and get your take on Jefferson I sat moore's ahead on Boston public radio eighty, nine, seven W. G. B.. H.. You're listening to Boston Public Radio Eighty, ninety, seven, W., Gbh? Good Morning Jim Nice here to stop pies greatness. Incredible. Take a week off come in for a day. Take another week off conditioning in the studio. Jenn was great way to live. Well, we missed you during the. Early. July. Massachusetts entered phase three of its reopening plan sawmills mayor. Joseph. Carta Tony decided to exercise caution, hold off and a PC road for Commonwealth magazine. Explain why writing. What we're being handed is a hot mess. We watch other states bungle the reopening, and we seem to be following in their footsteps. Mercado. Tony. Decided to wait until August third interface three. Now that opening days here, things seem even hotter and Messier. The mayor's decided to put the long delayed phase three reopening on hold again, he joins US online explain why America? Tony. Thanks so much for joining us. Get. Bit Connection. So we're going to put the on hold for one second and see if we can get a better connection and we will talk. As, we're trying to do that you know some of the numbers by the way in Massachusetts, while we are still doing far better than the rest of the country I don't know if you saw the piece that said. The average daily number of cases was up more than fifty percent from the average two weeks ago, again, still very low compared to the south and west, but not insignificant. We have the Mayor Mayor Tony hello again. I, Jim, Masha sorry about that. Thanks for having. Thank you very much for joining US Amir Credit Tony. So explain to people every other city in town Massachusetts is in phase three in you're not. So why not? Buy, well, we've taken the same approach. As. We didn't want it to be diligent to guided by the TATER. And a variety of indicators heist expertise, and you know what we see now is and you've alluded to in talked about it before I came on. A hot mess? Much of the country's on fire we. Look what? California, which was four to five weeks ahead of us, a plotting to curb the envy opening scaled-back more than thirty counties and here Massachusetts see spikes in different sectors and different comedies. On the Commonwealth, and this is the time to truly be vigilant. Especially, since testing contact tracing is not up to the level, we need to be really vigilant and allow us to which. Year, they tried to get US Open. Where are you in the school front by the way Mr Merriman? Obviously, that's right around the corner. It's probably the issue that is consuming more. Residents of our state than any other where you on that. Well here's one thing we should all of us on deck and trying to be opening for if we can do it in a safe way in a healthy way is. Not some indoor activities, elevate the vista transmission person person like gyms and fitness and theaters, and casinos, and that the school trunks for the same position as every school district they community in. Kabul. We're trying to figure it out. It's been dumped upon us. Guidance. But we need to try to understand can do the safely. You know how Kiwi implement chevelle testing, which is something we really need to understand how to resurgence based to pandemic is a balding and to be honest with you, we don't see there's no circumstance. We can see we're kid and every teacher and southbound, but can be back school at the same time right off the bat. You know the question is we virtually starting off right off the bat and to get some sort of hybrid you know model, which could be that could be a hundred samples about depending on where your community is, and that's what we're trying to figure out, and we're trying to understand one what our educational goals, and if we're going to be virtual hybrid, how do provide the best and most robust teaching and learning for kids to what are the adjustments we need to make twelve building assets not just a physical plant, but from an environmental engineering, Stampa brilliant airflow necessary to have a high. Quality of ear that won't restrict mission the virus, and again three, can we really implement surveillance testing, which is what we really need, and I was going to be one of the biggest challenges we're talking to Somerville, Mayor, Joseph, critic. Tony So. At this point, what is going to have? What do you think is the plan for somebody will schools reopened because it's not that far away. What we you? Public we've had. Ready when children communion as well, is it on media? Lawsuits were seen any level of information. We're not coming down the altogether, all teachers, staff and students time I was suspected with enough stuff several days. Even. Before the tenth. Hopefully, we'll have an announcement about what we're going to do, and we're figuring it out. On a daily basis, would you engage right now? As I speak to you, everybody's all hands on deck. The understand again, the three components we're are we in terms of what educational model be, how can we make it as robust as possible? So we don't leave anyone behind especially vulnerable populations when only not only taking it hotter times of the virus and the pandemic, but also in terms of the kids falling behind for more. So than the rest of us and then the other side, even what adjustments interventions that we need to make on building assets you know and investments. Investments in order to get those buildings ready, and thirdly, the biggest struggle. One of the biggest struggles amongst others is trying to get surveillance testing in place and this inflammation is changing daily for us and decision we have an answering. Any one of those components We're GONNA let no, but I expect to happen with the Minnesota days. He, a critic twenty, we've read over and over again, how mask not to mask is a political thing, trump person. You don't want to wear a mask trumped the himself has been or radical. I mean only lately started wearing a mask at all. And I think a lot including people with with immune. Who are in jeopardy. Are, rightly, horrified when they go to so many places and people aren't wearing masks at all. So do you think we need here is some enforcement of mask-wearing or should as cases keep skyrocketing sure. But he just go around be able to not wear a mask and then wear masks. For one of the things, I, submit the governance and do we need to have a mandatory although we really need to have more smit chew enforcement of? The place, for example, we now have a fourteen day quarantine. If they come from one of the state's not exempted, how enforcing that? What are we gonNa do it the other people all the people who are already come here for some of those states and all. Were in a dangerous status right now or moved back up here from Florida Again, this is some of this has been dumped on municipalities and there's really no enforcement in doubt, but at a minimum everyone should have to wear mask indoor out. That's one of the best levels of catching up to lower the risk of transmission, and that's a no brainer. By the way when you say you answered my question about Mask and you mentioned this travel or thing story in the globe mornings suggests there's absolutely no enforcement of it. They're actually travelers themselves. Complaining Charlie should be subject. Complaining? I. Know Enforcement. What's your reaction that Mayor Tony? We have this incredibly. Incredibly, naive over reliance themselves compliance, we are not sadly to say it's a selfless society. So without t to the enforcement, we're going to see it continue to Rozhin of compliance. Like you noncompliance. Hey. I want I leave schools as quickly as we did have a few more questions for you. On the school front. We're talking to the mayor of Somerville, who is I believe leader of the only community in. Massachusetts. That is not entered phase three in the earliest I believe August seventeenth set. Correct. MR, mayor. Yeah we'll. We'll. We'll continue to monitor. There's no. I wouldn't hang my hat ever GONNA change anything. We're GONNA. Look. Nikolai. Let's. Let's go back to school for a you you. You have four kids. Are they school aged? Yesterday them in the summer of public skiers and believe I more than anybody wants them out of my house in Basque. seriously. What's your family's plan? As the mode? You have one, we spoke to the head of the mass. Medical Society of the day, and he has an eight and a ten year old kid. This is the head of the largest doctors group in Massachusetts and we said what are you going to do and he says I really don't know we haven't made. We're not ready to make a decision yet are you We haven't made a decision, but I shall not GonNa, ask parents to do anything I would have. What my kids and And I? Yeah, and you know even still you know we need to be. Brutally honest with. People. We cannot guarantee anything all you can do with and we should be everything in our power to reduce the risk is greatest possible, the transmission, the person. I feel comfortable. My West Coast that we'll send on kids and tell people what I'm. GonNa do absolutely we we want to send kids. We're talking about the students. Teachers aren't comfortable. The mass teachers. Association. Which I believe represents people in Somerville said, the other day falls gotta start on online. We've spoken a lot of teachers calling into the show and I have to say I, don't know if we've had one who's called in from Massachusetts who says they are comfortable with returning I. Mean. That's obviously part of the dynamic. Right. You may decide it's safe for a hybrid and the teachers may decide. We're only doing Hatha Hybrid. We're not going into the classroom. Well that's true and you know I, read those comments and Teachers Union, they bring up a lot of good points I agree with a lot of the career all. These about questions we need to answer that we don't have answers to all of them. which is why when I wrote in the Article Magazine, he ended a hot mess. It is a mess is once again, it's been dumped them local school districts and municipalities, and we're trying to do this altitudes not. We've heard the saying over and over again, we need to learn to live with it. We all understand this virus is going to continue to be with, US, people can continue to get sick and they will die if we his no doc seems trumpet in the next several months and and we're still going to have to live with it, but we need the tools to live with the in a mandate safe that doesn't allow people to continue sick in doubt tools, you missing Mr, what tools, the tournament one we need. We need strong ball decision, the leadership on issues, mandatory mass, enforce the casting up to where it should be. The ones should understand. The issues we had him on testing supplies, needed a shortage of supplies at the beginning of this crisis exist right now exists today back like it was in. March and April the shortage reagents in some cases swaps. Secondly, we don't have contact tracing. So if someone is. Test tested positive. We can track down with him any contact with in their only contact in about probably fifty percent contacts, dad is not going to work. So the tools that allow not only with it, but the control the spread. But right now, I would submit the spreads control and that's the viruses control in. You're seeing cases spike and we know small numbers to the big ones in hurry. So Tony if you were out and about in some of the and you saw a large gathering of people without masks and not social distancing. Is there anything you can do about it or is this something governor? Baker is going to mandate statewide. We have people that some of the call us immediately calls to be well, one look you something about it will force it, it, but you know we barely have enough capacity to do. Most of that. A, lot of communities don't have any capacity. It's difficult. I? mean. We're trying to figure out how to keep. Keane be safe. We're trying to figure out how to even think about. That safe for teachers and students and the same time we're trying to run basic operation, the music, keep the Fed, and helping get the basic needs for for their own families and and this has been dumped on us. Again, we don't have the tools necessary as in-place communities across the Komo. To just meet t what we kind of this disease is used to control US moving forward. So how how do you enforce it? Do you have the police officers shop at the bunch of mass? Want to go home and. If. So if someone calls us, we will have how we'll have inspectors. Indoor police show up. We try to take first of all depending how agreed violation is. You. Know. If people are willfully just ignoring it, will we have to wait to take more punitive approach? You'll will try to. Educate people get them aware masks along my second. When we the I only community is one of the first. That mandatory mouse go to. We're out there talking to people there was some people wear masks you end up. Now we saw over time it culture behavior change, and that had great impact in some some. transmission rates, one of the lowest in the state, not the lowest and the most densely populated city. So, this is about when we want to institute cultural able change we need. we need that message from the top and you consistency between place me some teeth behind it also. So Mr Mayor last thing from me, we have the governor's joining us on Thursday at noon other than a mandatory mask order. What are the other two or three things as the mayor of a major city in Massachusetts that you think the governor needs to be doing that he is not I mean by the way he's got eighty plus percent approval is you know on how he's handling this virus by the people of the state, but what should he be doing differently in the estimation of joker to Tony. Let. Me just say I, think the governor has no job I. think we're feeling is here on the vigilance. and. I'm also at the q a with. This is a very complex. Challenge, we have no one had pandemic response plan. During the Komo's or the call. But what we need to doing the dishes and math and go back. We have testing up to the levels necessary off their supplies. Ready shortage. We don't have coordinated plan not only on testing contact tracing. US, the, other the only concern among universities opening well, universities top have good plans still need to be. Ramped up on their campuses, we have college students shift in the Boston, more than home to more than eighty colleges, university living living in our neighborhoods, and just no one force behind what they're supposed to do. Are they gonNA really cheese? Are they going to follow the protocol? So but there's no plan coordination from a Commonwealth them with the cities and towns on those issues. Misdemeanor thank you so much for taking the time to join us. We appreciate it and. With, your kids can I help? You can't get him out of the House. I. Hope we can all do that at some point. Thank. You very much. We appreciate it. Tony is the mayor of Somerville Amir. Kunar. Tony. Again, thank you very much. Great to talk to you coming up. It's a special edition of law and order. Andrew Abroad. Joins us for her take on the First Circuit Court of Appeals decision to vacate your heart Harrison death sentence. The conversations next on eighty. Nine. Seven W. G.. B. H. Boston. Public radio. Welcome back to Boston public, Radio Jim, Brady, and Maureen, some victims of the Boston. Marathon bombing thought your lives death sentence would bring closure others sought the death penalty was insurance that the trauma and pain of the bombings would never go away on Friday. All of that changed a federal appellate court vacated. Is Death sentence ruling that he could be given a new penalty phase trial where new set of jurors can decide if he should be sentenced to death. That is unless, of course, prosecutors decided not to proceed with another sentencing phase essentially agreeing to life in prison for life instead and a few minutes. We're going to get your calls on this what your take on the what should happen next here and what you thought of the Federal Court decision. But first joining US aligned for her take several Andras the former Suffolk County sheriff, and former Secretary of public safety. She is. Now the CEO of send hey. They're Andrew. How are you? We're GONNA do very much Andrew for joining us. So the Federal Appeals Court make the right decision and vacating the death sentence. I. Think they did I you know. That's just you know Jim alluded. That's just my take on it, but I think. You keep in mind that this was if memory serves the first. terrorist attack on American soil since nine eleven. So if you think of it in those terms, you imagine the universe of publicity. Hardly, restricted to Massachusetts, it was covered nationally. It's a very, very big deal in the car in the coverage took. It was a week between the actual bombing. And ultimately the younger son I arrest and. There was all of the coverage during that time, but then thereafter. And it was both local, very heavily covered locally, and then covered substantially nationally. So when you're talking about, you know a jury pool that is likely to have a knowledge of the incident and have knowledge of the facts as reported by the press. That's one level. When you're talking about a jury pool or potential, you know of anare of people who may have been personally affected by it and live in that state and who live in that city. Then, that's a different. You know level of knowledge, and so trying to drill down into whether or not people have actually made up their minds and are therefore biased. Is it that takes us substantial effort in the you know the three panel The judge panel said the judge O'Toole made a diligent effort, but that given. All of the factors that weighed toward undue influence people having jurors having made up their minds. It wasn't enough. We should be clear about that is that only one of the three judges said you couldn't get a fair trial here. But because of the majority said because the whole unanimously elderly decided because it's such a charge atmosphere for all the reasons that Andrea said and she would know she was secretary of public safety than just not just the resident that the judge had too much more and not just rely upon a couple of jurors saying there's not a problem. He should have dug more deeply and asked about some of the social media statements and that. Sort of a that sort of thing. Here's one of the things that I don't understand at all about this decision that I'm hoping. You could clarify for me, Andrea? Cabral one of the things this court decided is that the judge are judge a tool in the case made a mistake. By not allowing evidence to be introduce that the older brother was responsible for a triple murder in two thousand eleven in Waltham. And what I don't understand is and their contention was that may have moved a juror in the sentencing phase and by the way same jurors in both in the sentencing phase against the death penalty. But in light of the fact that in the underlying case, the Gilbert or not guilt phase of the trial. The lawyer, the lawyers for Jihad Sir and I were not saying, he didn't do. But that he was not guilty as charged because he was under the influence of his murderous brother, Tamburlaine is over brother. Why if they concluded that the judge was wrong. Not to allow that evidence in. Why would they not overturn? The underlying conviction as well. Well I. I'm not sure and it's really not a parent for many of the coverage what the individual rulings were with regard to that defense in the underlying trial, clearly, the defense was allowed to raise it. But. I can just tell you from experience that there are. You know, sometimes you're going, you know piece of evidence by piece of evidence, and you know the prosecution may object to a particular piece of evidence. As being irrelevant. In the guilt or innocence phase. But during the penalty phase, where your focus is is really about Evidencing, the state of mind you know of the of your client and and making the jury understand things about his. You know his chronological age things about his relationship with his brother, the influence that his brother, the degree of influence that his brother wheel get over him, there could have been. A lot more that they might have introduced in the penalty phase that they didn't or couldn't introduce in the in the guilt or innocence phase. I'm not sure about that. But the, but that's the way rulings frequently go and you will hear you will hear judge sometime say that's more appropriate for the penalty phase. Should we get to that point? You know I have a similar question which we may not know the answer to either. But one of the things that was. The judges side. It was the fact that a judge O'Toole didn't didn't look hard enough at the. Jurors. Jim said, they were the same jurors on the guilty of the crime cases. Should he be sentenced to death case, and that's one of the big things as jurors is are the jurors telling the truth, and once you're not only apparently said, she was locked down during the manhunt for so naive when she wasn't knocked down and she said, she wasn't didn't have strong opinions even though she called him a piece of garbage social media. So. So I mean I'm not sure that jurors should have been eliminated not, but that was one of their. Contentious at this jurist had apparently lied, and so shouldn't have been on the jury. So I thought to might now. Maybe. There's no answer to that at this point either but. It's the same question. Jim had if the jurors weren't vetted enough. Shouldn't the whole thing have been thrown out? I'm thinking it's a really good question And I know I I'm not. I'm not sure whether or not this. The the I'm sure the three judge panel limited itself. To the inquiry. before on the penalty phase, I don't know whether or not. this. They were seeking to reverse the entire conviction where there was a confession, right? Right. So even if even if you said he he he, I don't I don't know how much you know that would moot. The issue of you still should have a obviously an impartial jury and and no jury should be lying about You know their bias or they're having made up their mind, but it probably would be less of an issue in a case where he's confessed he literally. On the side of that boat, you know if you stop stop killing innocent Muslims and we'll stop doing. What we're doing now. The you know. The it was really much more relevant I, think to have the death penalty. sentence reversed for those reasons So I think you know. I. Think it's a really good question that a jury. The same Jerry sits in two phases of a trial and they and there was found to be jury taint in. The second phase of the trial doesn't that necessarily implicated in the first everyone may have sort of carefully avoided reaching that issue. Should be clear here. Basically, speak in judges a like in this case, it's possible. One issue that they did reach the the judges in this case made totally clear. That we should be clear for listeners who didn't follow it that closely over the weekend, he's not getting out of jail. Now, he's now the lowest penalty be life in prison without a chance of. Parole, and obviously, the decision could either be made by the US attorney here not to proceed. In which case it's, he's in prison the they don't go for the death penalty the second time, or they could go for the death penalty at that hearing at that trial on sentencing and a jury could determine that life in prison without pros appropriate, which relates my last question is. The whole issue about whether or not, you can get a fair trial in a city is charges this, and obviously the judge underlie the judge in the case O'Toole decided, they could and to the three justice judges in the appellate court also taught that was an appropriate. Decision, we all know the Tim McVeigh's case was moved from Oklahoma City to Denver, and he was executed. Here is a tweet from Donald trump over the weekend. Rarely is anybody deserves the death penalty more than the Boston bomber Dzhokhar, Serna of the courts agreed. This was one of the worst domestic terrorist attacks since the nine eleven atrocities yet the appellate court tossed out the death sentence somebody lives lost and ruined. The federal government must again seek the death penalty and a do over of that chapter. Of the original trial, our country. CanNot, allow essentially criticizing the appellate court by the way I'm assuming that a significant chunk of the people in Boston maybe not a majority. Actually a poll showed at the time, only a very small percentage, twenty percent favored death pony. But there are people who have that point of view. But when the most powerful person in America Andrea States that the court Blewett and that there should be a death penalty. How does even somebody like this? Ever get a fair sentencing trial. Well. Yeah. At this point, you could probably make the fairly make the argument that that Donald Trump is the most reviled person. In. The country and that him weighing in on anything might have the exact opposite result. Jurors, maybe particularly in Massachusetts. But I don't know why anybody pays any attention. He every judge that has ever ruled against him. He thought was worthy of the gallows. or at the very least to be removed, he also called for the execution of the. Central Park Five, after DNA evidence exonerated them I. don't even know why anybody talks about anything that Donald Trump says. you know. Announce of credibility that said. Unfortunately. Under bill by there is very little resistance to his stupid pronouncements and I don't know whether or not. Andrew Welling would have any independence in making this decision about going forward but. You know. Based on what Bill Bar has been doing? It's very likely that. Ultimately. Donald Gets Andrea. Bars though, is it not? Is it the attorney it is, but there's a they used to be an infrastructure within the DOJ where you know the decisions and the analysis of know US attorneys and you know the deputy and and people further down in that chain had some credibility and made a difference that issue here is that that's less less thing because bill bar is you know Elephants stomping everything that Donald Trump doesn't like. So that's that's that's a problem, but I mean I would say this. I mean to me, you know the Donald Trump, all the donald trump stuff is is as usual insanity but. In terms of the victims in terms of the the the Richard Family and the family of The young Campbell woman. That was that was crystal. Crystal for that first name. No one should ever fault any family member or victim for whatever position they take on this people arrive at, you know closure and being able to move on in different places in their lives and everybody's got a different philosophy i. mean their their feelings absolutely should be taken into account, but I really hope that people are not. Weighing weighing in against or four. You know how they feel about it because they were quoted in newspapers. Well, let them feel the way they feel and let the let the system in the process proceeds will, but but don't fault them for whether you agree or disagree with them, just keep it to yourself. You know one lashing Brian to keep putting you on the spot because maybe this is something you don't know either but I didn't know it from being the different stories. I assume if he does get another trial in the death penalty, Shahar. So naive gets flown out from Colorado to sit at the defendants docket at his trial and death penalty is that the way it usually works. Oh. Yeah. I mean he? He has the right to be present. Yeah. So so this is this is in many ways a wonderful thing for him not only because he may not face death penalty, but this by the sound of this prison, we'll talk about this lady with listeners I. If I were in his shoes I'd be thrilled to get out of there even if it meant sitting in for a month, you know what I mean. This is a big treat to get to. Yeah balanced by the fact that the death penalty for you might be solidified as a result of of a second trial. It's all in context, but I do think I mean I think that. We're we're years away from that happening I, mean, this was a three person, three judge panel, the the DOJ can ask for an on Bonk. You, know review of this, which is essentially a d-i-n-o-v-i-t-e reviewed by the full circuit. Then they can appeal and or they can't appeal. this further. It can ultimately go up to the supreme. Court. Of the United, states. And I think so I. Think we're a long way away. I think you know in terms that you know if unless the US attorney makes the decision to take it off the table and leave it as life with the possibility of Parole I. Think we're probably years away from from him, getting on a plane and coming back in Massachusetts. Hey, thanks for. Amicable joins us all the time every week for our additions of law and order law enforcement. Much. Let me call him over. Thank you. She's the former. South. County. Sheriff Secretary of Public Safety. She's now the CEO of the sand. We're going to open the lines in just a second. Ask you what you think about this as decisions regarding this or naive case eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one, eighty, nine, seventy, be PR. W. G. B. H. Dot Org. You've been a tweet us at boss public radio. What do you think? Is it worth having another sentencing trial for Shahara, or not listening to eighty nine seven? W.. G.. B. H., Boston public, radio. Back, to Boston Public Radio Jim Brady and Modrica just doing and we were talking to under cabal about, jihad, sir, naive as you know on Friday is death sentence was vacated by three judge panel here. There could be another high profile trial. We're opening up lines at eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one, eighty, nine, seventy in your estimation. What's the right thing to do for the victims families, for Boston for? Justice would justice be best served if the US attorney, this case just decided to leave it where it is, which means that the life in prison without parole sentence would be the sentence. That supermax out there in Colorado that Marjorie mentioned or do you think it's a wise thing of another trial here in which? Case, he could. if the jury would agree, get the death penalty again, but this time, theoretically appropriately eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one, eight, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy, I, just want to mention a few little facts about the prison that are knife is in that supermax Colorado I, he's Misao an basically eight foot. You can walk eight feet. The direct in in one direction is a eighty seven square feet. He's there for twenty three hours a day in that sow a, he could go for years. He's not unique in this other prisoners. There are minimum in the same situation, go years without touching a human being they have. Video cameras and motion sensors on him all the time. Every half hour. He's checks for the window way must standbys bed and he checked by a count by the staff. He doesn't. He eats alone, the meals are passed through a slot in the door. His Basic Apparently, you can write letters. It's not clear how many letters you can write, and you're allowed to fifteen minute, non-legal phone calls, each month I, mean, this is. Superman? You could argue this is hell on earth. So. It's not as if you're having a great time out there in that prison and. I would imagine you probably start to lose it after while we talked about people in a solitary confinement, losing their their minds literally interviewed a Guy Greater Boston a couple of years ago, who actually spend time at that supermax and he said. Exactly what you did that you lose your mind which I guess maybe as part of the motivation, I dunno, let's take some calls. Bruce. Millbury. Your first on Boston public radio. We're talking about what should happen next in this. Case a bruce. Hi there. Thanks for taking my call. Sure with with respect to Marjorie views on the death penalty many of which I agree with. I was at. The finish line on Marathon Monday and I saw personally. The chaos and havoc and the death that this guy reeked. he ought to never see the light of day again, in fact, the the blessing of life. Is such that it should be taken away from him? The same way that it was the he took it away from other people. and I feel very strongly about this, not only for the public relations issues that it will revive for folks like me and the campbells and Barton's and everybody else who was there on that day in. April. Twenty thirteen. So, proofs. Are. You saying I'm not clear. Are you saying he? He there should be there should be another trial I'm just penalty or there should we? Even. Thank you. I don't think there should be another trial. I don't think I. Don't think he should be I. Think if there's I think he shouldn't be left there. I think you should have been put to death in the first floor. Okay. Okay, well, that's not an option the. Option? Bruce Thank you for the call eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one, eight, hundred, nine, seven, after say bar does make the ultimate decision. I believe Eric holder made the ultimate decision in the original trial when he was the attorney general, not even sure holders pro-death penalty, but obviously, law allows for the death penalty. Federal law does it's impossible for me to believe after the pronouncement we heard from. The president that bar would allow. US Attorney, and even if he wanted to let things sit where they are. Not, proceed, but will mostly. Arm Moment. Some Ross said, this isn't really supposed to be decided by the survivors. That's not the way the system is supposed to worsley can't be divided anyway exactly. But I did think that that one of the most moving things I in this whole terrible tragedy was the letter that bill entities Richard Central the glow about their feelings about the death penalty. If people may remember, they lost their eight year old son. Martin. Their seven year old daughter lost her leg. I believe Denise Richards suffered some some injuries as well. at Bill. Her tour. I her husband. Lost his hearing for a part time. So they were their whole life. Their lives were turned upside down, but they talked about they are opposed the death penalty, but they talked about how painful it is to have. In the spotlight, and this is at the time that we were I. The trial was going on and that he goes way the supermax he's gone. He's done. He's forgotten. He's in the cell for twenty three hours a day as I said before now, we're all talking about him again and now. The whole prospect of his and his intricate Bras said is probably going to be years if it happens at all, but still it's up in the air, there could be another trial. So he gets deleted the supermax and come back to Boston and for a month to month or of a long, it takes and I it just seems their point about. Why why do we want this guy back in the spotlight again, keep in mind the mother of another. Feels totally differently. She knows what you know and I'm sure even more and her attitude is he should be put to death. which would require another trial I agree with you. I'd just wanted to point that out because I thought that perspective on this was particularly. Moving Anyway Omar from Boston. Thank you for calling Omar. Yes. Hi. Guys I do I come from the Middle East I've lived in Boston for over twenty years now? I felt horrible and sad and angry like minibus donations. When this happened, I do believe the Justice Department should really ask for a retrial I think by. By giving this guy a chance to live I, mean regardless that there's no justice will be served by him living or dying to the to the victims. I. Do believe you're encouraging more attacks of that of that magnitude against. Innocent people. Encouraging. More attacks on innocent people if he's not Ta- death. Yes, you know mark. There's very little evidence if any that that. The death penalty is a deterrent. No it's not, but I think in the US, we do have a justice system that protect the the the innocence and the killers I. Mean, we give the chance to everybody here. This is what makes us different. That's what I came here for because I know there is justice in this country and I do believe that this I caused. A HORRIBLE Pain to a lot of people, and I think he should not be given a chance to to live and any joy that justice system. Are. We appreciate your. Thank you. The call numbers eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one, eight, nine, seventy. We're talking about a retrial and the death penalty phase alone for Shahar. So naive, he is never going to get out of jail but he his. Dying. Being executed by the United States of America seems to be up in the Press Marjorie. Forgotten until reading about this over the weekend, I was amazed. Then in retrospect I'm amazed again, the national numbers at the time of the trial on whether or not have should be executed were majority favored execution. Somewhere in the neighborhood of twenty to twenty, five percent of people in Greater Boston. Execution. How do you explain that? Only twenty, twenty th. Wouldn't you thought it would be exact reverse. Actually, I would that the people that were closest to it. Is Lot Catholics round. Here me who don't sport. I have no idea. That's that's the reason but just speculation on my part. And also I think I mean I to keep harping back to the Martin's but. I remember them during the trial I remember what they wrote. They paid the ultimate price. Here s other people who lost family members I'm. Finishing at Crystal Campbell's family in the terrible loss she had. But there was just something so. So, inspiring uplifting and better angels about them that I think. Maybe they inspired a lot of other people too. That could be that could be I, I? Don't know. Brenton in the car. Thank you for calling my Britain. Age Marjorie, thanks for taking my call. Sure. Know, I'm morally against the death penalty. It's not the main reason why I approached the way I do I. Really get families who are going to be dragged into court probably forever. If the state continues to try to execute starting I mean he's he's the worst of the worst. You can have a debate on the merits of that for sure and I'm not, I'm not. Speaking for the families I just think You know if we continue to try to give him the death penalty, it's going to go into appeal forever, and these families are GONNA have to go back into court again and again, and again you know be confronted with this guy have to see him have to hear the stories and I think that's a terrible thing. Great points, great points, good points, but also say for the third time that at least one of the families as someone who was killed the peers to think that's a price worth paying I mean Marjorie I, happen to agree with you brandon, but it surely is not unanimous. Thank you for your call eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one, eighty, nine, seventy. Let's go to conquer. Thank you for calling. George, George. Hi, thanks for taking my call. Sure. I'm so from most my life, I've been a very strong support, the death penalty and I would say that's pretty much. Remain consistent. So I am in favor of executing so naive. I. Was twelve years old when the bombs went off I knew people who were personally affected. a classmate of mine. Her father lost his leg. and she her personality like changed overnight. It was really traumatic and. I'll say this time certainly affected me A lot of ways you know I grew up. Very sheltered from a lot of the crime of the inner cities I live in the suburbs. and thought that such A. Act of terrorism could take place here was unthinkable. and. I really think that this crime strikes out against everything that Boston stands for its structure against everything that you know that we represent. And I think that to give Sarnia of life in prison. especially at his age, he's only twenty seven. It's just not a, it's not a good enough sentence He will spend if he's got life without parole, he will spend probably fifty sixty years in prison living off of the taxpayer's dime. And whereas if he gets death I, think the timeframe would be more around twenty years and yes, it will be more expensive. Yes. It will be a little arduous. But I do think that it's worth it to to fight this decision to either appeal it or have another sensing face. If it means that we can put this monster down for good and. Don't actually don't go away Djordjevic question for you. Know it. Obviously, you know, Margaret. I feel differently about the death penalty, but one place SORTA surprised what you said you said, he's only twenty seven, which I think is right, and that means he's gets to live even more. But I'm sure you've read about this supermax Marjorie described that. I would argue again, I have any firsthand. Experience except having visited prison here and there the younger you are. The more intense, the punishment. If you're in a place like that. He has no hope of ever seeing freedom. He has no hope of having more than what Marjorie described an hour a day. We can even leave his cell much less have human contact. Why do you think? That's not. A, the most horrible of I respect your position on the death. But why do you not think that's the most horrible suffering a human being can do after. Causing the suffering that he did. Well there are several reasons I'm one. He's appealing his death sentence I. think that shows pretty clearly, he doesn't WanNa die and that he would prefer. Life in prison over execution and to I as as much as we'd like to think that life without parole means you'll never get released I mean laws change clemency can come and see commit granted He could make deals inside the prison that could get him that could potentially unreleased. So the fact is we can't guarantee that somewhere along the line of you know several decades from now that he won't get out that there won't be some kind of you know mercy commutation. Something and I think that, and furthermore I think that if he's in prison, he can still, as you said before write letters from prison and I the last thing I would like them to do is to spread his toxic ideology. from behind bars and influence more people to to join his his a terroristic 'cause George taste for your side. Call obviously researched this extensively, George, that was a that was a very. Interesting. Thank you very much. I, think the polling numbers nationally on the death penalty are moving away from it. However, the interesting thing that George said I remember when in Massachusetts when the death penalty was pulled, remember when pulsa lachey was tempting to have the death penalty reimposed for state crimes. What was interesting to me is well, people supported the death penalty. They preferred life without parole with one caveat which gets the Georgia's point now changes. If there were no changes exactly fear as George had legit laws can change. And I also think that was the case that was a case of a little ten year old boy Jeffrey curly being murdered and. Molested prior to his murder. So that was a really hard. Case say one more thing for the intention today for us to bring this up was not to have a debate. We've had on the many time. We'll have again about whether the death penalty is a good idea or not. Even though we are obviously colors we are weighing in. Obviously, they're gross inequities. In the death penalty racial and economic inequities that we're not talking about today, but the death penalty is the federal law of the land. So we're discussing it in that context at least today Stephen and Lexington. Thank you for calling hi Stephen. Quick. But you get some. Hi. Sean Hey Jim I. To call on the radio. Thank you. Hi, I'm surprised. I'm surprised. Today, we're talking about something like this about. Appealing the distant of this gentleman who we'll had an intention to kill people right I. personally in my view, I don't think there's any any punishment that you can give someone who kills. I'm but the the the intention to for him to have it sentence I think is one thing that puts to death. His Act. And we put you to death completely. So I think. I was seeing bodies of friends with both bearings and nails drew after bombing that I was I was meant to die from I. Don't think the past Kim dissolves is can. leaving. So. You're in favor of the. My. Stephen, we appreciate your first call. I'm sorry until. I'm not appropriate of sentences, but when it comes to people killing so many people I don't think they dissolved pretty. If Steven thanks make another call again soon we. Appreciate I. I didn't see any of the stories Margaret what's the timeframe within which? Decides. Obviously, there can be an appeal as as Andrea mentioned to the full appellate court. It was a three judge panel. So the bottom line is regardless of what side you're on. This is not about to disappear this issue anytime soon, it's not an if we mentioned that they were People. killed. But obviously is George called his his was friends with someone who's father lost a leg, the people that hundreds. Yes. And the the only good thing about that. That tragic day was that we were in the city, Boston? Where people were able to get a survivors to the hospitals really quickly, and it was incredible thing to think about that, no one who made it to the hospital? No one alive lost their life and it was just really something anyway. we are moving on up next, we're going to talk to the Reverend's Iron Munro and the reverence. Emmett prize a lot in the on the ticket. We've got these purely John Lewis a bunch of other stuff. The Reverend's Irene, Monroe and Emmett Price, an extra listen to eighty nine seven W.. H., Boston public radio. Ahead on Boston public radio. All eyes are on Joe Biden as the former VP narrows down his search for his own EP. Biden's pledged to pick a woman as you know as his running mate. But after the nation beginning national dialogue on race relations, many are calling Biden pick a woman of color writing in the Boston Globe, Rene Grand, put it. Succinctly, Biden must choose a black woman as his running mate in a few minutes while here with the Reverend's Irene Monroe, and I'm cheap price thing when they're with us for all revved up curious whether it's It's okay to take a dip in your best friend's pool. How about a social distance trip to the beach as case counselor in some parts of the country? Massachusetts has moved forward with the opening and it's causing some while lots of confusion will be joined in a few minutes. by Dr Catherine. Gergen Barnett will help answer those questions and yours, which is with us up ahead on Boston radio eighty, nine, seven, w. g. b.. H.. Welcome our number two of Boston. Public Radio Eighty, nine, seven W., G. B. H. Logan Jim Hogan, Marjorie. So join US along to take on some of the moral dilemmas of the day or Reverend's Irene Monroe and Emmett price. They join us every week for all revved up reverend I remain Roses Syndicate a religion columnist, the Boston Voice for detours African American herge trail, and a visiting researcher on the religion and conflict. Transformation. Program Abuse School of Theology and Michi price third is professor and Executive Director of the Institute. For the study of the black. Christian experience at Gordon Conwell theological seminary, the host of the all revved up podcast Robert, Munro rather than Emmett price to see both. You. Welcome back. Thank you thank you? Hot Week for vacation, I'll say that. Anyway. Irene let's start. With. Renee Graham, the Boston Globe columnist piece about Joe Biden. She wants him to. Doesn't want him to. She says, he must choose a black woman to be present vice president, rather the United States of it she right? She. That's right. You know renee is right about many things in terms. He's right on the money he has to. He has to pick a black woman and he has to pick the right one, which one is i. Got The right one. For. ME, oh. Oh, yeah me too. I? Think I think is the leading voice I think between her and and property. Susan. Rice would be you know the the two top choices that would help him to win. Now Okay you said. To, let's tell me why val demings Irene because Kamla Harris I think is still the front runner? Isn't she? Yeah. Well, no, no, no. Let me just say this this an African American woman, quite an exciting time. This is as exciting as you know, having Rochelle Obama you know s s first woman here. It's first lady. So I'm really excited I agree with him. Him that we have to. By all means pick an African. American. Woman for a couple reasons, Biden those black women, the DNC owes black women in America owes black women. Now the whole and the thing about this is that you know the DNC causes the backbone you know of the Party where the backbone of the Black Church I mean, you know we're. We're the backbone of this of this country. So and civil rights movement. So the point is, is that we're tired of being essentials to these movements into these agendas and being undervalued. Valley. Seeming is particularly important because she someone that is to me that the ideal packets she is a mom and a grandmother she worked at the social workers and moved up to police chief for lieutenant, and now as REP, she's in one of the border states So she is basically the best package we can get and you know I. I was rooting for Stacey, Abrams because not only do I, love her romance novels under the name of Lena. Montgomery. But I think she's brilliant. But she doesn't bring the full package here and Carmela, you know she got this wreckage of you know she was a G.. So she's going to be problematic I. think that what we're not paying it. Oh, and I need to say this I. Read I read top love by Susan. Rice. She's brilliant, but she's not personable. I just need to say how can I interrupt that? We had Susan Rice, a national security adviser. Brock. Obama, we had her own radio and TV about a year ago and her book came out. And I can say on the air what I said to marguerite off the air as well. I'm looking forward to meeting her. We had a brief conversation whether the Democratic convention. She was very Kurt. It was not very pleasant and I'm not looking forward to it. I have to say she was as personable and funny and smart and engaging as anybody had on the air in ages. So this is not endorsed. Jammie brought it out. Anybody. But I think that her Her negative reputation at least is not well-deserved. Can I ask you both a question? You're both both accepting in endorsing what Renee Graham said, the word must. In both of you. Have your reasons. What hap-? I mean. In your case, I renew seem to be saying it. It's owed African, American women who have been the backbone, who are the most reliable voters for the Democratic Party and Emmett you seem to be talking about What a winning strategy is when the bar has been raised. So high on having potentially a an historic vice presidential nominee, black woman, and if he picks, let's say Tammy Duckworth, who's a person of color lost both her legs? Obviously, she's Senator From Illinois or Elizabeth Warren, we always white. What are the repercussions if any for Biden? Amongst Democratic voters particularly. Black. Democratic. Voters. Particularly Black Women Democratic voters starting with you Irene. Tammy, fine I. Mean. She is definitely a person of color and and it would be a really wonderful statement if they picked her, but Elizabeth, become becomes the problem on on many levels. Come on. Now we live in Massachusetts. She came in third. She came second behind Bernie here, but you know the real problem here is that that nobody's really paying attention to is that Elizabeth Warren, connection with black. Voters. Here in Cambridge, I have to say because the issues that she is champion like school like school we have anger engine. Latin. That has a lot of problems and wants to reform. It's you know not only its curriculum, but the demographics in terms of who you know lives in Cambridge and can go there. Area four has been gentrified. IT USED TO BE A. A police I'll meaning that I. It was police. So much of because it was black and brown people who resided there policing in America. We could go back to two thousand nine and look at the incident that happened with Professor, Henry Louis Gates, and then let's talk about the gentrification because of the biotechnology and the pharmaceutical to Microsoft a city councillor though in Cambridge Irene. Black. With the point is that you know Y- it starts at home and the point that she could have gotten. A I mean a huge support of of the black vote here in Cambridge I mean I could. Go Fia to vote for Elizabeth. Warren all I'm saying is that the issues that she championed? No better place in the start at home, and she had the kind of tell and the kind of endorsement. From women of Color Particularly Black Women you know our boundary. Is. Beyond just Cambridge and you know so she missed a golden opportunity. To get this, I got one more thing you're listening to the native American thing you know hangs over her, but but a reason for it is because she used her. Her I guess native American heritage, but listen live privilege as a white woman to get the position she got at, Harvard? Well for whatever. It's worth As you know, any Linski is now the Washington Post that a piece in the globe or she interviewed virtually every person who had anything to do with that search and says, it didn't affect it Nimit. Obviously, Irene things that'd be a bad choice I. Guess, my question was, what happens if Biden? A black woman I'm reading from a New York Times story a few days ago and warned with a different perspective. She has emerged according to activists and organizers say the authors of the piece is the one of the most racially progressive white politicians in the country. What happens if Biden. An, African American. Woman Emmett Price. Yeah, I think you have to two major issues? One is voter turnout. Then the second one is losing the belief in the democratic process that in this. Current. State. Spaces of of the nation and twenty twenty when you have the Briana Taylor's and you have the George Fluids that if black folks cannot be on the ticket in that in that in that, you know where we are right now, it says something that the political processes so based in whiteness and the electoral processes. So based in whiteness that I, think you're GONNA have a big issue with voter turnout and and the lack of belief or limited limited belief in the democratic process. Here Not In a new thing. And another thing here I mean, you know the Democratic? Party, is about symbolism more. So than than substance here, this year more than nineteen. the one hundredth anniversary of the nineteen. Th Amendment although black women didn't get the boat. But the point is is that he's trying to get the women vote out here. We we we are struggling. We're talking about passing the John, Lewis you know voting rights at to get us back to what the voting rights act of nineteen, sixty five. gave us and I think that even out of a sense of similar, even if it isn't sincere, he and his love supposedly because he wrote a wonderful statement about voters, rights and folks getting the vote out, just symbolism, he the it to black women here. But you talk about tanking an election, this will take it because clearly all folks will come out. Wow I. Hope I hope I well. Better. Bet Pick, a black vice president. Then because if people don't come out that we have president trump for another four. which is getting harder and harder to think about every single day. So let's let's talk a little bit about. John. Lewis. Who wrote this? Absolutely. Perfect. Piece for the New York Times. Entitled Together, you can redeem the soul of our nation talk about. Inspiring, and in good angels, talk about this or just talk about his funeral and talk about whatever you like to regarding the congressman, who of course just passed away. Well I'll start because Irene has a lot to say You know. The Knicks? I know I know I, know John John Lewis, you know in his piece wrote that Emmett till was his george fluid. Brooks, Standard Lock brand, just Brianna Taylor and I. think that helps to put it in perspective and I think the challenge of bet, is there folks still do they? They? Kind of you know I gaze thing that, Bill. Clinton did at the funeral where he joined the mood, his John Lewis is leadership with that. stokely. Carmichael, who who became the chair person of the student nonviolent coordinating committee after Lewis Right. Then that remark was so damaging because what it does is it continues to pit black folks against each other based on the whitegate. Way that people did with Martin Luther. King Junior and Malcolm X., and his. N. believe a white belief that black people should think behave and lead the same way. Splitting people explain to people that before we before we get to Irene about the whole, the black power thing soak Karamarko talked about he was. He was more impatient. I suppose you could say I mean give people the context of what, what, why, why, Bill, Clinton took that which you called undeserved swipe at him. Well. Well. Call my because from a different generation in similar to our millennials? Now, who who, who say that we have been? So patient, we've been patient for generations and generations. Why are you all telling us to hold on yet a little while longer we want change now still be Carmichael came in in the midst of all kinds of horrible stuff, sixty, five, sixty, six, sixty, seven, and really you know created a sentiment of the black power movement, the same that we have power to it was you know we have more. More power than right people, right. So the re the rebuke that other rebuttal was that will if black people have power than white people must have more power than black people. You know sometimes hit into the whole, you know black lives matter versus all lives matter. It's the thing. But stokely Carmichael came from a different place of actually using community activism and really coalescing a whole bunch of different forces together including the Black Panther party to do some really phenomenal things that get under you know they get under appreciated. Go ahead. You know one of the things still doesn't understand the key to the races. All those he in many ways was a favor to the African American. By. The American community until the end of this. What he did, what someone by the way? One of you is inadvertently slugging your mic nonstop. It's really sensitive or your whatever it. Is So. Interesting because. While your phone. Whatever is whatever but God I'm sorry Monroe. Good. Hopefully. Hopefully, it's tough. But what he did though is that he does the classic when I call racist tropes bad negro versus good near. As image, say that's the mouth and Bursa King Back live movement versus the Civil Rights Movement here and so what? You know what bothers me about about about that he was a moment of listen up the movement and talking continuation the movement, and how we actually in many ways gets from the civil rights movement to the Black Power Movement to the you know What is it black lives matter room it. So what he did was just totally uncalled for, but again he does this and I think. Think and I think he doesn't need recognize it because it reminded me of sister soldier moment, not understanding all of these movements. All of these pronouncements made by various generation is talking about the same thing that we've been talking about sixteen nineteen, which is anti black violence. So it just bothers me that in and I don't know if you've watched that, I, watched it from beginning to end year and And stuff, and again, continue to just be Terry all through it. It's the in many ways he looked to me as an antelope and that moment's because it was really, it was very cutting and it was quite noticeable his demeaning demeaning of so Carmichael. But can I just say one other thing here problematic that I felt was interloper. Bush. I. Don't know why. There's all the Sunday elevation with George. George Bush when what I remember unless I was living in an alternative universe, but he elevated his platform, you know championing against a black civil rights against it I mean, he wanted to dismantle affirmative action. He talked about Conservative was the compassionate conservatism and it was anything. But that and then let let let me not forget how you LGBT issues, particularly marriage equality to sort of run his campaign so. Why in many ways? Some of the folks who have been detrimental to because of what we're talking about now, don't know all of a sudden. They get elevated and act felt like Bush shouldn't have been there and I need to. Sackville. That bill shouldn't be. UNKIND to say I'm assuming I don't know this. But I'm quite confident in saying that they weren't interlopers. I'm assuming they were invited by the family and while I won't quarrel with all, you said in terms of the criticism Irene I think one of the beauties of having a Bush. There is this show in these grotesquely partisan times that there is a man who is a Republican president, united. States. Who wanted to pay respects to? The Great John Lewis I. Hear what you're saying I think the plus. Better Republican, you can always find a bed. Not One who's been an awesome. But. You know something I couldn't help. But thinking that the same time we had bill, Clinton, giving his speech, we learned that by one of the Epstein alleged victims he was spotted with not one but two teenage girls. That was reported by Newsweek. What Marjorie just said, that's not some. Yeah. So maybe he. Might not be able to corroborate that back. But let us not forget Monica Lewinsky here, I, think that because we have evolved more around the issue of sexual abuse that you know again, this is not in the game that you know He. You know he's done some good things but I, mean in terms of. But he did it in a way in which he pitted just. One group against another none talking about about. Clinton. So it's not surprising that he would take this moment because that's what he does to pitch stokely Carmichael against John Lewis at instinct appetite every. We're talking. Iron Munro. EMMETT PRICE I want to talk to you guys to about this. Piece about this Nelson Mandela. Neural is huge mural that had been on Moore Street in Roxbury for six years. Torn down basically, but the story gets a little bit murkier it as you read into it. Tell us about this and what your take on this. It was there. I suffer launching this huge mural Nelson Mandela and then it was taken down by this. Cruise Company for housing. Right, with John Cruise, and the cruise construction companies develop her who you know over the last. Probably I think five to seven years had stabbed in. His own to do some low housing in the area where the wall was kind of retainer wall. To keep Kinda the separate the property from the street with that and and you know one of our phenomenal artists You know, put a mural on there, which was beautiful. Gorgeous, very empowered, inspiring, and as part of the construction plan that retaining wall had to be taken down as a result of their John, crews did respond in say that he plans to utilize a aspects of the mural as part of the design for the new construction that's going on, but it shows you how. How challenging the season is in in the neighborhood where mural becomes a lifeline and that shows you how disparate folks are in in in that community and I feel the same way as artists You know, I was I was sad to see it go down because it's so empowering. So beautiful and I understand the politics behind it in in all that kind of. Of stuff. But that's how much we're greed in this motion of trying to say the black lives matter when we actually honor a mural on a wall and that's how that's how heavy this thing is. So it shows you the emotional toll of discrimination and a systematic oppression that we're living under right now before marina responding before you respond to what I some factor. That Marjorie in Emmett touched upon is that cruise has said that it would be incorporated in some fashion, the new development when Martin and I were talking about this before the show I said the reason I am. Skeptical is too strong. A word is when someone is A. believes. They're doing something good like that, and then refuses to talk to the reporter. To explain what they're doing my attitude that Wanna, see it before. I praise it. But here is sound from the instagram page of one of the two artists responsible for the mural, and by the way is a pause in the middle. The pauses real. So don't turn away here. He is looking at the rubble from his car when the person filming asked him what his thoughts are about what's going on. Look. At that. Disposable. Seven. Second Pause. Disposable. Irene. Yeah. Well, you know I feel this, whack feel that. We won in this moment, I still think he's you. We would be getting same reaction and large, but because we're in this moment I think it shows that cruises just tone deaf, but but that but that mule represents, you know home for people connection to the African. Diaspora. Black Pride, you know strength and perseverance and love in the face of adversity, but it also suggests and it was very, very interesting and I think I said this before there was an article in the global on July eleventh talking that. Boston. Is One of the most intensely gentrified cities in the United States. States parlaying. San, Francisco, and Denver. So I mean it it. So these folks even though you're putting in housing, people are very anti housing for food When we say affordable housing, what do we really mean by this? But you know I thought about this in a couple of two other conic landmark and how would I feel if they were gone? One is to sit co-sign the sick cosign gives you a sense of comfort. It tells me when I'm landing coming from a speaking engagement and see that Oh my on home and so not to see it. I, would feel this. I think and I yeah, I do to do. And if you wanting the Boston Marathon, you say, oh, my God, how long? Not Too, much longer. So I mean we may become a part of Matt, only the landmark we situation, but also in your particular psyche around a sense of community and a connectedness. But think about this too about the statue of Liberty being you know you know from from New York I, guess coming home now flying home to New York and not see the Statue of Liberty because of not only what it means. Means symbolically. But what it means to me as a child growing up and seeing that figure here. So I mean I understand the community feeling the way they do, and I think that when you look at someone like Nelson Mandela he represents you know fighting adversity, and so you'd think of Roxbury is a prison or type of president again, he you know really manifest that strength of I can bus added this. But while I'm here, I can make this my home and make it reflect. Hawaiian. Look. Say One thing I mean if if if if John Crews and his construction company were white. And we're trying to justify the neighborhood. Perhaps iron would be onto something, but he's of Cape Verdean. Descent I. Mean I think he's showed the sensitivity of a of a situation where it's almost like you know you. Have two dozen on one side half a dozen on the other side. But he's trying to do something empowering in the neighborhood for the neighborhood, and so I you know it's like we can beat up on everybody, but but win win when one of our own from the African diaspora tries to do something on behalf of the neighborhood. I. Think we should look at it a little differently. But I also think this image that if you're doing something for the neighborhood, you need to talk to the people and ask them. And what do they want, and I think that if they say, they don't want that you're down for what it represents. How much argue do something for the neighborhood if that murals even if you went to displace it someplace else. So No, that's not enough that you know the race card doesn't work in this incident. When you're you're you're saying, you're saying the wall was something that could have stayed up. I, mean, I'm not a construction person I'm not zoning, but I do know that when you you have to come. To. Take. Everything that's existing there so that you can build fresh. So I'm that simple. Yeah, well, no, of course not, but you. But my point is do something like this needs a lot more work from community activists to get people to that point, and so my point is, is that whether you move it? And whether you have good intentions, which I'm sure cruise does you still got to deal with the outcome and the outcome is a result of not being enough on the ground to get people to weigh in on this one way or the. You know I I would say one more thing. The the the the plans for this were zone. I think like six years ago, I don't know what took them so long, but even the artists said that he knew at some point, this had to come down. So I'm not sure if you're going to do enough emotional work in terms of counselling as a construction company to get everybody where they need to get to be fully on board. So I'm just saying that we have been complaining about, no, no, how low income housing in this area, and here's somebody who stepping up going to do something about it and we. We throw him the Middle Finger to I I, know I. Don't think that's it. But I think that what we have understood now particularly when we're dealing with, you know communities of color that there needs to be a much more intersectional approach. So so when you talk about the kind of therapeutic part that assuming that this isn't tied to, you know a development company I disagree because if you really want to move the dial, then you could bring in all the various people. People. That can help you achieve what you want I. Mean we don't do hospital care anymore without having various tentacles around around food from food and housing and other issues. So no singular approach is enough. I don't think that we're thrown the brother under the bus. All I'm saying is that that in looking at this and I wonder if he were to do this differently if you had more voices in the discourse. and. Then you want to add that. We wrap this up. Let's let's. Rapper. Okay. Irene. Always the Reverend Simon. Gary. Online, everybody. Everybody, not everybody. Okay. All right. Thank you for that. I remember when Emmitt price both reverend join us every week for all dot. Irene Romero Monroe. Rather is a syndicated religion columnist, the Boston voice for detours. African. American heritage trail a visiting researcher in the religion and Conflict Transformation Program at Boston University School of Theology. Amateur. Prices Thursday professor and Executive Director of the Institute for the Study of the black. Christian. Experience. Gordon. Conwell the logical seminary that both host of the all revved up podcast. Learn more about it and subscribe to all read up dot org coming up. netflix's sweeps the emmy nominations. Td Grew Bob Thompson over that more next an eighty, nine seven W.. G. B. H. Boston public? Radio. Welcome back to Boston. Public. Radio. Jim Brown margery EAGAN. Ellen. Degeneres is having a hard time upholding famous motto be kind dozens of former employers is speaking out about how she created a toxic work environment rife with bullying. We're top executives allegedly perpetrated several incidents of sexual misconduct and harassment since the end of or can survive a culture and an industry increasingly intolerant of bullies. Even if somebody has a high-spirited persona, join US line for his take on this last week's emmy nominations in Moore's Bob Thomsen. Bob's a professor and founding director of Blair Center, for TV in popular culture at the Newhouse School of Public Communications at Syracuse love their Bob Dobson blow to. Bob. Thompson. Great to talk to you so. Could this. What's Worse Bob? Well This was my worst, this ongoing story at Allen, and you know it started. Then you almost here. Okay. Here we go. Another a a scandal on a show, but this story kept growing larger larger. There's a lot of people who have brought forth these accusations of sexual misconduct racism bullying and while Ellen I don't think as of last I checked. Checked is implicated personally in this, a lot of people on the top levels in other words in order for her to I, think stay clear of this. She's really going to have to make the argument that she was out of it when it came to making that show and of course, she's the executive producer. It's got her name on it. Shows. been a big hit. It's been on what seventeen years but I'm not sure I. Think it would be hard to predict what the future of this is going to. Boban, you say nothing directly connector other than the fact that the buck theoretically does stop. There is I read last night that there were two guests who whatever, I read this and I'm trying to find it. Were considered fairly prominent one's and I'm happy to say I never heard of either of these people. They had complained they complained about Allen herself. I don't mean in a way of sexual harassment, but about not being treated terribly well by. The woman in charge. So my guess is at least and the feeling in this piece was that once one guest is willing to say something like that, which is a different thing employees that others may be willing to as well. So the wolves do seem to be closing in some fashion. You in this story doesn't The story doesn't let up, I mean, in spite of all the other things going on, there's a little bit of Ellen News seems like every day and I I think there are two issues here. The the one is the these really serious complaints about some very serious things there the other, but it's not irrelevant is when the story starts coming out about you know the whole Ellen isn't very nice kinds of stories, and while those are a completely different thing than these other accusations, those tend to be important as to how people perceive these, and of course, for many, there's this shoeless, Joe moment of say it ain't. So Ellen. It is so contrary to what we've. You know what that show presents. It's persona and attitude, and all of those kinds of by the way I should say. Hearkening back to what I said before I read last night I, think the two guests who I never heard of. But who have been guests said exactly what you just said that she just not that Nice I mean she. Sort of flying not that she's committed a horrible offense, but that she's not who she appears to be. Point, so far Bob at the advertisers sticking with her. Well, it's I. Haven't heard a whole lot of detail whether that house of cards is going down yet. So I don't know V. The answer to that, but it seems now the investigation was done. We got a bit of a not a lot of detail in that a preliminary report. Ellen has come out, but you know even Ellen's statement You know has that whole is known better. What was going on? I'm glad I was informed all of that kind of strategy which I don't know in the end. I think these things are tough I, think the person in charge really does have to take some pretty powerful responsibility. So bad times. Let's move on to. Something more more cheerful, which best. All my best is. Beyond states new film dropped on Friday I got up early in the morning and I thought. I would just get a quick taste of it and an hour and twenty five minutes. Watching the final credits This is Black is king. It debuted on. Friday, and it's of course. Beyond says too long kind of music video album based on the live action. Lion King would keep some of, but mostly is its own creation and confirms once again, how beyond say is sitting if not right at the top right near the top of the greatest American entertainers up there with beyond or I'm sorry. Michael Jackson, and prints I. Suppose some people would put Elvis in that. Category, I mean she when when she puts a show, she puts on a show, where is this, but we have a little sound. Let's play the sound for this is from the trailer to black is king. Everything you see exist together in a delicate balance. You are just sounds pretty thrilling. She's. So we're wasting, where's this playing on what streaming services other than the recently launched in November Disney plus Disney, plus okay, which is why King? So that makes? That makes. Sense Split. So. Disney, pluses had a couple of really big ticket items in the last few weeks, Hamilton and now this and as as. Compelling is that audio sounds? This is one of those things that it is really impossible to get any sense of with audio only because it is a really. visual experience. If I had to find a complaint about it, it would be it sometimes sticks a little too much to the old music video aesthetic of a cut, every second kind of thing. There's so many beautiful compositions that you would almost like them to linger on and it goes generically all over the place. There's. One moment with choreography in a pool that you'd swear you were watching an old busby Berkeley films. You mentioned that she's up there with the very top entertainers I. Mean. She's she's so usually culturally this and the thing she did on June June? Eighteenth at the. Her release on June eighteenth, and then back in two thousand, sixteen, every woman I know in America was transfixed by lemonade. Road to. masterpiece. cavorting husbands or whatever it was I mean she's become Yuejin women's rights stuff and huge in in in in in civil rights stuff and. Black. Lives matter thing I mean. It's cultural. Just Not Entertainment I. Think Though Oh I. Think you're right I. think she is a really powerful cultural presence in all kinds of all kinds of different different arenas and and uses her Extreme talents in the various entertainment performances that she does for all kinds of things other than you know something to dance at a wedding reception although he does those too. So Bob Thompson what should we make of the emmy nominations who's on top to the right people get nominated what about Jimmy Kimmel and how they're gonNa do the show the whole You know my opinion about the right people this. This isn't this isn't science what a body of people decide they want to award on any given given time. The watchman was the number one with twenty six nominations, I, think we've talked about that before. Yeah. That makes sense Mesa. Mesa got twenty ozark eighteen. We've talked about all of these to that I. thought probably got a little more than they deserve succession which don't get me wrong. I think that is a delightful battery. So and I think it was really fun to watch I'm not sure it's in the same category as some of this other stuff and the men delorean got fifteen nominations, a bunch of which makes sense. It was really a lush visual thing, but it also got. In Top as best drama, which I think may have been. A little much shits creek got fifteen. We knew that was coming and Westworld got. Eleven. Mrs, America got some again. These are all things we talked about and repulsed drag race got ten, which I think a lot of people were. Happy to hear you know I hate to sound as small is I'm going to. But the truth is the reason I watch these shows to see the stars. How do you do a zoom? Awards show too I. Mean, what are you going? Senator bathtubs I mean, what are they gonNA do here. Well of course, as you recall back in the early early early days of zoom. That's what you're referring to I presume where Colbert actually sat. Bathtub on the other hand I. Think I think we're getting so much better at this. But by this time, people are shooting entire feature films. In Zoom. Sometimes literally in zoom the brand name. Service and I'm finding grudgingly have to admit this. Because I never thought, I'd hear myself say this Two months ago, that there are actually some advantages to teaching online last week of this summer course and part of it is when I see my students in regular teaching their three rows back, Fort Rosbach, ten rows back here. Everybody is in close up, which means in many ways. If we did the EMMY's in the exact same format, we just had everybody. In their own houses or apartments or wherever they were. There's a sense of intimacy that comes from zoom because you're right in the face of your camera that you don't get in the highly mediated business in the. Were the feeder that they're. That they're playing it and since none of us are there anyway. Whether, or not, they're walking up to get their award or just at the computer doesn't matter to us. It's a matter. Of fact, if it's on zoom, we don't have to sit through them getting up and walking up in the front, which is fine point. Without. Okay. And other words, he keeps me how can we make these shorter? A pandemic may be one of the. He's looking at the bright side. Say. Thompson Lavas have seen that Great Olympian. Michael Phelps, I forgotten twenty eight Olympic medals. Wow. Over five games. A great swimmer with that. Incredible. Wingspan. I, think he's got how long is ours about four feet long as one. Anyway, we all see them. On. TV. Lately, talking about mental health and talking about. The importance of mental health for Olympia? Well, we'll play a little clip. Addressing. This issue of of mental health problems among Olympians listen to this clip of the four-time Olympic Skeleton Racer, a Katie Nolan describing the mental toll that comes with finishing the Olympics. This is from the store show. We're going to talk about HBO's The weight of Gold. So if you are incentivizing, you're focused on winning or you're focused on being the best, you can this one thing and putting all you have into that. Without. Any other balance when that ends and then you're out of the fighter flight mode of like I have to perform after perform. Get left wondering, what do you do with the energy? I feel like we forgot about how Human Olympians Art. So tell us about this, the weight of gold, it sounds really. Fascinating to me. It's fascinating. It's chilling. And it's very succinct. This whole documentary is a little less than an hour It debuted on HBO on the Twenty Ninth of So that was Wednesday of this week and it looks at the whole kind of. Side effects of being and an Olympian. The usual ones we expect, what if you get all built up, you worked for this for so many years and then something happens and you lose interest or. Whatever but it also looks at people who didn't lose and what happens when you had all the success, and then the Olympics are over this idea of post-olympic. Depression performance depression and I didn't realize I'd heard the stories and I've even heard of Olympians who had taken their own lives. But the amount of people that one here's talking in this documentary about issues of suicide and suicidal thoughts and everything is really alarming and there's a whole bunch of some. Olympians, we probably a lot of people wouldn't know but a lot we would Michael Phelps is in there a lot Sasha Cohen Shaun White. SNOWBOARDER Bodey Miller skier. Low Jones, hurdler. Who I think tells one of the most interesting stories in the whole bunch. So nothing wasted on this film happens really quickly and I think is yet another story that we spend so much time in this country celebrating sports, I can't wait till sports comes back in sports. This in sports that we've talked Among ourselves many times about the occasional cesspool that is professional sports on the college level on the NFL level and all the rest of it, and this is a different take on how sports are not about these, all about these. Stories of working hard and playing with the team in getting a cheerios endorsements. It's Michael Phelps. One of the produces thing is this is film. Oh. You know I don't know I didn't. I don't know because I have to say. I'm with Margaret, he's changing the world I'm not. All these Olympians have great courage talking about mental health issues, but he has been so out there for so long now talking about the issues I think since his marijuana arrest or whatever. It was a couple years, it's really really it's great I. It's. It's. It's really great, and also I don't know if you've said this amounted gum fiddling with my computer here, which is functioning, but he they also yet again, another indictment. Indictment of the Olympic Committee. That doesn't you know. Maybe he had the worst extremes are obviously we heard out, of Michigan State in the sexual assaults from this doctor. But most of these Olympic leaders don't give a damn about the athletes. All they care about is is how they perform and then see later by the way, one of our colleagues just tell me Phelps is listed as one of the executive questions. which I thought was really appalling that a lot of the seem as you get everything, you know get the perfect shoes. Perfect socks perfect that. But when? It talks about how? The organization Olympic Committee, the Jim talked about takes about a thousand athletes to combined the winter and summer. Olympics. With a thousand athletes, they have three mental health officers, and apparently you're supposed to go through your trainers, your bosses to get mental health help, which is seen as kind of a no. No. So there's a penalty there if you do that. So it seems that there are undermining people's ability to get help for depression or anxiety, whatever it is. I'll tell you if there was ever an operation that should be shut down and start from scratch. It's the. United. States. Olympic. Committee. Not to mention the International Olympic. Committee, I. Mean All these. These but go ahead, Bob, I'm sorry. Yeah. No, you certainly get that impression as though, and we we we all here how much money is involved for getting Olympic rights. I mean, this is an enormous business, and that in many ways, the athletes are You know simply kind of the raw material to which to MAC manufacturer this prophet and how even the big stars forget the many many many many athletes don't get endorsements and all of that But even the big stars talk about how how quickly their expiration day. And and it, it is funny. Sometimes, we we think back of people we were following were on covers of magazines in not that many Olympics ago that we have a hard time even recalling their names. Today. Baba. Move onto what I thought was a whole set of wonderful tributes to the wonderful John. Lewis, here's a little sound I'm president. Obama. Has Been Very hesitant to even directly criticize the trump administration with very few exceptions and I was surprised even though the juxtaposition of somebody who fought his whole life to give us freedom and ability to. Their democratic rights being laid to rest at the same time. I. Think it was the same day that trump is talking about you delaying the election or some ridiculous thing. Here's Brock Obama calling out restrictive voting policies of the trump administration, and this is obviously during his eulogy for Congressman, Lewis even as we fit in. There are those in power who are doing their darndest. To discourage people from voting. By closing polling locations and targeting minorities and students would restrictive ID laws and attacking our voting rights with surgical precision, even undermining the postal service in the run-up to an election. That's going to be dependent on mail in ballots. So people don't get sick I'll tell you if you can get applause talking about the postal service. You know you really, you can really move a crowd I. thought. That was great. What did you think of the Louis Coverage? Overall Bump I. Think it was It was not only wonderful but extensive. We got coverage not only of the, you know when a president dies or former president or A. A big figure. We will get a memorial service and funeral, but we had the big coverage of crossing the bridge for the last time. the body arriving in DC memorial, funeral Of course, the speech that you just played, which is a pretty substantial long speech on for for quite a while, and this wasn't only playing in the places. You'd expect it to play whenever I would see big long coverage, I would always pop over. Over to Fox, and in my very unscientific Test Fox was always covering really as well. So it was covered a lot. It was all over the place. It was hard to miss, and it's one of the I think I guess one of the happy things about when someone like this passes as the that it becomes especially in this age of twenty, four hour cable news an excuse for a popular history. We get history documentaries which a lot of people simply don't watch. But these kinds of things all day long as you know as the procession is going over the bridge. There's not a lot going on during those things until people start talking and consequently the color commentary, if we could call it that ends up being history lessons and sometimes pretty good one by the way by toxin, it may be too too soon to know, but maybe you have some insight. Per Murdoch's empires, two sons. James. And Lackland James just resigned. Citing the horrible coverage not only the United. States. But you know denying climate change with all these fires around the world and so forth he's resigned he's going to donate money to. Progressive, causes is this GONNA matter or we'll just lackland and dad just continue the way they're going, and James will go off and. Do his own thing I. is it matter which the script of succession already called for? Let, read read. my prediction would be the second of the two I. Think it was the second of the two that you said is that Fox has got a business model over there and again, it doesn't matter if nine tenths of the country hate them if you can get a tenth of the country to watch. That's GonNa put you higher in the ratings as they usually are anywhere else. So I think it's GonNa, take a lot to to shift that. Now, of course, if political mores in the political environment change in really significant ways over the past ten or over the next ten years, which I suspect they will with regards to things like climbs climate change we're already. Already, seeing it with regards to race and police and all that then there may have to be adjustments over there, but I think I. Think James Probably Look at look at that and figure this was the walking out with the only solution, but I, don't think it's GonNa make a big difference, but I could be wrong. So why do I wake up? Oh, another HBO thing debuts tomorrow Tuesday, called the swamp. Consume, yeah, this is the documentary of the renegade GOP. people Ken, Buck Colorado Thomas Massie from Kentucky, and of course, Matt Gaetz gets who you. We've all heard and seen many many times on television and it follows them around, but it doesn't. It's not exactly what you might expect it to be. There are times when one's watching this film about these three people that one is tempted to think. It sounds an awful lot like some of the things we used to hear come out of Bernie. Bernie Sanders is mouth So it's worth taking a look at it debuts HBO, on Tuesday, we have a little clip from the trailer of the swamp periods. Who can raise the money in the special interest groups, control the money, the lobbyists. That's the swamp. Members of Congress are expected to pay for their committee assignments. Two, hundred, thousand, five, hundred, thousand, it becomes to perpetual campaign. It's basically how to hold yourself out for money perfectly put. I. CAN'T WAIT I. Can't wait to say it as long as. I know how much you like the recent Jon Stewart movie make a nice companion. Thanks. Thank you. Bob Thompson joins US every week. He's the founding director of the Blair, Center for TV and Popular Culture and a trustee professor a TV in popular culture the Newhouse School of public communications at Syracuse University. Coming up dodger Catherine Greg Barnett joins us to take Mark Corona virus questions, and yours listened to eighty nine seven W. G. B. H. Boston public radio. Welcome back to Boston public. Radio Merge Regan, Jim Brady, two months ago, Massachusetts was successfully flattening the curve Dr Catherine. Gergen Burnett wrote this and the Boston Globe and the distance skyline. There's something looming that not many people are yet discussing a second peak. Second peak will likely come with a combination of more covid nineteen patients. A seasonal influx of flu carriers importantly, people whether they're maladies who. Who are now delaying care and dangerous and worrisome ways? The question on everyone's mind has the second peak already arrived. Here's how Dr Burks characterize the situation yesterday on. CNN, what we're seeing today is different for March April, it is extraordinarily ride spread. It's into the rural as equal urban areas and to everybody who lives in a rural area. You are not immune or protected from this virus. Back here in Massachusetts, eight, thousand people have died. But over the last several months, we have been doing better than much of America. But. As you wake up today, you see our numbers or ticking up to join us. Salon for. Dr Catherine. Gergen, Burnett. She's the vice chair of primary care innovation and transformation in residency director in the Department of Family Medicine, Boston Medical, center and Bu Medical School. She'll be here for the whole hour taking our questions and more importantly yours anything and everything relating to the corona virus. The number. If you WANNA retailers eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one. Eighty, nine seventy and Gergen Brennan good to talk to you. Thanks for being here. Thanks so much for having me back. Again. Before we get the 'CAUSE, it's a couple of things and by the way again, the number eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one, eight, nine, seven. Oh Dr Burks has taken some grief for being too much to ready to. Carry the the White, house water in other words and not protesting loudly enough when the president was saying bizarre things like injecting people with with disinfectants, etc.. Yesterday, she was much more frank saying that we're we're seeing the virus basically out of control extraordinarily widespread. Now, the president has criticized her calling her phthalic for for saying that yesterday. So. He's mad at her, I guess but. I am concerned about her believability. I mean dodger. FAUCI has a lot of people's trust including my own Doctor Burks I. I'm not sure what to believe that she says anymore. Juvenile insights on this Dr. Well, you know I. Think it's an excellent question I. Think luck we cannot. Deny even even Dr, Brookes cannot deny the severity. That our country's under right now, our death tolls one, hundred and fifty, seven, thousand and I, think there's just frankly no room to be protecting anybody who is hiding behind politics and it is high time to be looking at the science and the data I completely agree with you that I think the public has a lot more kind of standing trust in Dr. Chee, I think. Though as we continue to hear messages that perhaps are more Frankas, the one, the was that yesterday Casually, we could consider a more longstanding trust, but the question is not just a messages. But what are the what are the policy changes that are going to go along with it? Because it's one thing to recognize what's happening in our country? It's another thing to say, well, as a result of this, these are the you know ten steps we're going to be doing to protect the American people and it's not just suggestions, but there are going to be laws and policies. Doctor for the most part of the last several months. Again, I don't want to ignore the fact that we have an incredibly high. Death toll here. Eight thousand of people who lived in the state have perished as result of this, which is a horrible number, but we have done far better than the rest of America without a shadow of doubt but. we've had almost four hundred new cases day for the past week. That's more than a fifty percent increase from the average, just two weeks before the positivity rate which had been below two percent. The one seven range for weeks inched above two percent. The transmission rate inched above that one number that we're told is supposed to be a criterion last week we talked to. To the head of the mass medical society who was urging the governor to at least consider closing some of the things down the road. In phase three, we had the mayor of Somerville at the top of the show is not even in phase three because he's so concerned, these new numbers in Massachusetts despite US being a lot more responsible here are concerning. Are They not? Yeah. I you know the beginning of last week. I was saying similar things I. Think you know as we continue to look very rarely at our uptick I think Baker. You know has really attributed the uptick to some poor judgment and some outbreaks in certain spots that we are unfortunately read too much about including places like Chatham and on condone camps, etc but but it's not you know pockets become widespread. So if you're having more people are becoming infected, then we know that the rates are going to go up across everybody and so. You know I think the question. is on top of many of our minds is how do you actually prioritize what were allowing people to do? Right. So with the face three, we're talking about Jim's we're talking about a, he knows we're talking about movies, theaters, galleries, and those are all nice and they're important for businesses. But if we're actually talking about prioritizing children and getting back to school, then we have to be making some tough choices and you know in order to do that. That, you need to think very seriously about what you're allowing to happen. Now, in order to kind of get down the road safely in two months to get to a place where we could even think about some in person schooling in Massachusetts I wanNA tokens for a second about schools. But since I'm assuming a lot of our goals for you today are going to be about schools. I'll just ask one which is sort of a broad question. Essentially the schools in America shut down in March and I'm not just talking about Massachusetts because it was unsafe for kids and workers to be there. It's worse in America, now than it was in March. So as to quote Deborah burks from yesterday. We, even thinking. Across. The board I'm not talking about individuals, small pieces, how were even thinking of reopening schools and even having hybrid where part of the time I kid is physically in the space when things are worse than they were when we shut them down. Absolutely I mean, you know this is not a one size fits all. I, think the entire pandemic, we've been seeing state by state having to make their own decisions on things actually thought there was a a terrific op ed in the New York. Times about a week ago from the manual and colleagues really looking at the parameters that need to happen for schools to be even thinking about safely reopening I'm but one of them is that you need to have less than five percent test positivity rate over seven days As you indicated, you know we're at two point two percent now Which is unfortunately quite a bit of an uptick from one point, seven just two weeks ago But sort of really thinking very specifically about each place each state, and and frankly even each county with the test positivity rate is and then having very specific. Parameters in terms of reopening in terms of high risk activities and meals, and obviously all of the things that need to come into place to keep classroom safe and teachers safe and testing. You know. Frankly you know I heard sort of before the top of the hour talking about going back to college, and you know, how do you have kids tested every two days? Well, the same is true for for school. So if we're actually thinking about schools reopening, how are we getting rapid tests online for students and for teachers? Testing overall I, read a story in the globe. The other day, saying that the Department of Public Health and Massachusetts is saying the average. Turnaround time result time is two point, two days and I. Think it was EXP- again, Dr Ross for two runs, the mass medical society I think answered it well. We broacher with them. The other day is in the big hospitals and please correct me if I'm wrong Dr in the big hospitals, do their own processing. The turnaround time is pretty good. But in the smaller hospitals and other healthcare facilities where they have to send the results out to these labs that are also testing Florida and Texas and Arizona. The turnaround time can be a week eight days, nine days, which to me is worth defy nothing. What is the whole point? Exactly. So where are we? In Massachusetts on. Testing both availability and turnaround. I. Think you framed it perfectly and I totally agree with your your guess. It mean it is. It is absolutely the backlog in these major testing sites like quest diagnostics. That is causing massive seeing a backlog of of you're absolutely right around five to seven days and. So we cannot act on test results that are that late and not to mention you know any kind of contact tracing just goes out the window when you results the take that long So we we there's there's plenty of data to suggest that we have the capacity in. Massachusetts. But but you know a I, think anybody who's tried to get tasks especially if they're. They're a symptomatic and the difficulty in the fraud nature of that knows that having capacity, and then actually having access to it. two different things, and then be waters. Are you know what? What's the impact of the test and so you know there there was a recent excellent article in the Journal of Medicine that that really urges us for to think about So live attests that can give us results in fifteen minutes looking at some of the early date of v and how we actually got the HIV virus more control and and how can we be using tests that maybe aren't as good? You know maybe aren't as sensitive, but at least can tell us data a little bit faster. We will one nothing, and then we will get to the cause again, eight, seven, seven, three, and one, thousand, nine, seventy. When we talk about when people talk constantly how we need a federal response, it would seem to me. One of the things that would be helpful is if the federal government. Invested a lot of money in having more labs. So you could get tests done more quickly because I'm not hearing five to seven days. I'm hearing people to. Eight, to ten days around here, waiting a very long time to get a test back. So that would make an not to mention people talking about in different states, not having enough swabs and back to this argument about not having much as much p. p protective equipment that they need. So this is where it seems. It's going to be a nationwide effort and we still don't have a nationwide effort. Yeah, no. I could not agree with you more. I mean, I think the testing has to be one of the highest priorities. Look. There's you know there's been a federal push towards the vaccine and and that is both very heartening and then I think on the flip side of it is caused some people be somewhat distrustful. The vaccine that's being supported by the government unfortunately but I think that this idea between or having the. The government combine the testing part of it and really pushing that piece of it It is been an incredibly fractured area of our response to Corona virus nationally and again, every state has had to fend for themselves and and again, you know the difference between the the hospital testing in the community testing, and just how difficult it is to access testing. It is become a massive problem in part of the reason why we're doing so badly as a country. During the Catherine Gergen Barnett. Doctor at Boston Medical Center and be medical school. She's here to take your calls for the whole hour anything relating corona virus. Please, give her a call, Shell and JP in Jamaica Plain I. I'm Boston Public Radio. Thanks calling. Hi. Hi, everyone. Thanks for taking my call too. So I live right on the edge of Mission Hill JP and Brooklyn right there where route nine comes into the city, and this is a neighborhood that has lots of great small apartment buildings That are often rented out to kids who WanNa live off campus. My building particularly has twelve units and right now about five of them are occupied because all the students went home in March, my concern is. That in the best, of times, with, no covert. The young folks. Renting these apartments to live off campus. Have a hard time following basic rules like it's in the building. It's a no pet building parties aren't allowed after ten o'clock, etc, etc. You know what I'm talking about How are. The colleges in the medical community here in Boston going to help ensure that. US Non Student residents of the apartment buildings in the city where where the students do end up renting because of the lack of on campus housing, how we're going to, keep safe. Greg. Question I'm so glad you called Michelle. How about Dr Yeah. So thank you for your call Michelle I. Know exactly where where you live And You know we're not far from there and and I think that's a really important question that all of the colleges are grappling with now. So you know I know be you is as outings for students, take a oath of of health in terms of quarantining when they come in casting negative keeping mass keeping socially distance But I think to a lot of what we've all been working with and suffering. How did you actually You know so much? Onus on the individual and sort of taking the oath and what are the consequences if they're not following these oaths, right and so I think part of it needs to be how our apartment buildings in shoring that there's good ventilation ensuring that people who are signing leases are somehow creating. You know are awesome signing some sort of of health and You know the good news is that we are not seeing a lot of transmission through things like events In apartments etc But but I think you know working to make sure that the people who are owning your apartment buildings are aware of who is coming in and making sure that there's some sort of health contract that signed with every person who is renting in your building and around Boston I think is probably a good. Way To go in addition to the universities having to do their part. By the way you know Michelle. Thanks for your question. The threshold seems to be if you're entering from a state is not new, England New York New Jersey, or Hawaii. You're subject to travel order and a quarantine or a test result with a test taken within the last seventy two hours, and then we read the globe this morning that there's essentially. Zero Enforcement People, I mean, have you ever heard of people landing at Logan, who are complained that they weren't detained? That's what these people are doing. They're saying I wanted to be detained. I wanted to be asked questions I. Want. So you know. My concern I agree everybody's gotTa take a burden here part of the burden doctor, but. The primary burden has got to be on the. State. And not relying on a twenty something or a late teen kid to do the responsible thing, i. hope he or she does. But as Marjorie. shirl interrupt and a minute and say I have two words for South Boston I. Mean That is It's a problem I mean I. I could not agree more and and I think you know again with Governor Baker saying look these were sort of the outbreaks recently are just as a result of a poor judgment. So poor judgment is going to happen what can we do date actually in force it poor judge doesn't have a place. Yeah, I. Think Enforcement Maybe I, just can't believe let's everybody stand around with no mass by the hundreds and does nothing but. Anyway, let's move to another call James from Worcester High James James. Hey, thanks for taking my call. And thank you doctor for taking the time to answer questions I. I had Cova back in May I. Think I spoke to you, Jim and Marjorie. Last month when you were asking about what the situation was like having it. My question is in general. What is the? What's the long term sort of vision for long-term effect and how should patients or how should people who've gone through it? Basically go about seeing kind of what their future holds. Great. Question term affects me consequences. Yeah. Thank you so much for your call James and So sorry that you had to suffer through that last month. I think you know we are still learning about sort of long term consequences for. Individuals and and you know we see that people can have really different symptoms. So some people have very mild symptoms. Some people have very severe symptoms. Some people have symptoms that lasts for a number of weeks You know the good news is that especially is working him about the vaccine development that we are seeing that people who have had it. Are. Developing antibodies although they antibody has now are not always kind of showing the kind of antibodies that that lasts in the body for a long time. So it's a little bit of a confusing data that being said, you know there is good news that it appears that this virus is operating like other viruses where if you've had it, your body will recognize it in the future And that if you are exposed to it again, it'll be very mild So so that is good news for you as an individual I certainly think that your experience of living through it I'm really glad that you were to share it on the radio last month. I think the more people who have kind of separate thrill. I can talk to others about their experiences and what helped more. You know sort of information wisdom. We can gain and then I think you know talking to your primary care physician and making sure that you are being monitored and that your health continues to be in check because we now understand that covert nineteen is the. kind of Wiley ways, and it really works on the vascular system. So Checking kidneys, heart etc places where there's lots of little vessels So I don't know if that answers all of your question, James, but I'm again, really glad that you're recovery. So are we james call us again how you're doing eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one, eight, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy, Dr Catherine Gergen burn it is here to answer your questions got a couple of people emailing a doctor about. Difficulty getting tests when they're a symptomatic. In other words I feel fine. But one one person Chris Christina thinks that she was traveling to Maine and she's been told she can't get a test in Massachusetts before because she doesn't have any symptoms. I thought you could, and you can't get into main unless you have test quarantine. Talk about. Yeah. So you can. You actually can get the test symptomatic You can go into the Massachusetts, Department of public. Health. They have a an interactive website where you can type in your address and then you know a number of testing sites around you and you can actually call those places. You know again, different places have different turnaround times as well. So depending on when she wants to travel to main and how quickly she wants her results. Obviously. Obviously that that's very impactful. So it is possible but as was alluding to earlier, it's not easy and it's not as easy as it should be especially as Many of us are thinking about. You know loved ones that we want to visit that we have a long time and and you don't have any symptoms, but you WanNa, make sure you're good before you see them. So that is still a barrier that many people are encountering, but it is possible. I know this is such an obvious. But why not make it anyway. Jim, the fact that in this country people cannot get a test march sixth. The president was in Atlanta at the CDC with the health and Human Services Secretary like a bobblehead doll shaking his head up and down. Alexandra Darwin? Trump. Said, anybody who wants to test can get one that was April may June July four, five months ago today, and as you just said doctrine a symptomatic person it is. Not Impossible, but it is really quite a slog to find a place that'll both give you a test and give you results in usable period of time, which is just. It's just Unthinkable but it is. Very true, and actually there was a piece in the globe which I really enjoyed the they had a They were given a mission to get past. To. Them told about their stories and where they went in their community and and sort of the feet of of getting a test within the day. So you know it was it was a little bit tongue in cheek, but it was it was. Yeah. They're reporters. That's what they do for a living, right? Get back to the point, you made about this alternative testing like the saliva tests thing. And it made me. Thought of it. Because of what you just said about what you just said about testing I live in Inman Square in Cambridge about two hundred yards away from urgent care place and I called there the other day because someone. Who Him dramatic needed a test and for one hundred and sixty bucks, you could either get the rapid tests, which is that saliva thing. And get the results, fifteen minutes, or you could get the regular that you know the the stick, the swab in your eyeball. Essentially, test switches the reliable one and it was ten to fourteen day turnaround. But you seem to be saying that is unreliable as I read that this alive of the rapid test is. That there is some value and could you expand on that for a second? Sure. I mean, look we we We don't want to be perfect to be enemy the good right, and I think having fifteen minute results and having some sensitivity and specificity of the test is better than having tested. Takes fourteen days to come back and having it be basically a moot point by the time you get the results, right? So if you are willing to get a nasal swab and then quarantine until you get the results then that is a good possibility. But what I'm arguing is that and I'm certainly not alone is that we need to get. We need to get more saliva tests up online we need. Need to get them covered by insurance. So you're not paying a hundred and sixty bucks out of pocket, and then we need to improve it as a test right I. mean it's. It's not just saying, okay, this is good enough, but it's at least saying let's get something online that we can actually use if we're going to be talking about getting kids back in school and teachers back at school, we actually have next caller is about a test in another country that she wants to ask you about. Let's go there Steffi you're in Waaban and you're on Boston. Public. Radio Dr Catherine Gergen Burnett. Hi. Hi Thank you very much for taking this call I know Israel has created a one minute corona virus, Breathalyzer test. And I WANNA know if that's going to be available anytime soon and what about The UK which actually has dogs that were sniffing people and they had like ninety eight percent accuracy. I. Don't know know of like the dog at Logan Airport. Oh. Yeah. Steffi. Thank you so much for your call. You know I, I have not heard of anything online to get either of those kind of ways of testing in the United States. Do think that Israel has been sort of on the front lines with the king about some of the ways that we can get testing done and and had come up with some of his I kind of cohort models for schools So No it's you the the the big things that we're working on right now is again creating more rapid. Turn around with the the saliva test but the Breathalyzer test is is interesting and and you know I don't know how effective those are in terms of the results I. Don't I I be very curious to hear more about that Steffi is we hear more, you'll hear more. Thank you for the call. Are we getting closer to maybe you said this earlier where we getting closer to a? A less intrusive. I don't even care about the intrusive, a faster turnaround reliable test widely available in this country or is that wishful thinking? I don't think it's wishful thinking. I think that people are working very hard on it. But I, you know I I think we're hearing more about all the effort that's going into the vaccines right now I. think There's a lot of focus. A lot of money a lot of time pressure on that piece, but I, but I could not agree with you more I. Mean You know the? The the efforts that are going into the testing needs to be just as kind of comprehensive and robust as vaccine piece. By the way we have, I've mentioned the governor's joining us on Thursday and quite regularly in the press availabilities either here merely sutter's of talked about the capacity we have, Massachusetts, which is used suggests Dr. far. Exceeds the actual number of tests. So I'm not quite clear on why that gap. Exists, but will learn more later in the week. Brendon in the car, you're on with Catherine Gergen Burnett, High Brennan. Aj Marjorie Dr Bernard. Thank you so much taking my call I. Just thank you so much Dr forever than me. Do I have a lot of medical professionals in my family I. Know You're all your right now to protect others and I just want to say, I really appreciate that my question pertains to newborns. We're really lucky. We have a beautiful newborn baby girl. Family on muttering. Monday and calling into radio. On Opportunity We? Made? Opportunity was in tune in a little bit more than I do work but I just wanted to ask. Great, information. Out there. About SORTA, lay. Brendan Brendan Brendan, we're losing you bed phone sterling. Lose. Your. Way. You. Wearing your first call. You came in my better in that play. We're GONNA, put you on hold for one minute. Don't go away. We'll take one more call and we'll go right back to you after the break of Brendan. Marjorie, why don't we take a break now try that again. As soon as they get paid, we're talking to Dr Catherine. Gergen. Gergen Barnett about all things run a virus, his Boston Medical, center and Boston University's medical school. WE'RE GONNA keep talking to her after this brief break. Listened to eighty nine seven. Gbh Boston public, radio. The Boston public radio, Marti, Regan and Jim. Brady. If you're just tuning in, we're joined by Dr. Catherine Gergen Burnett off vice chair of primary care innovation and transformation and residency director in the Department of Family Medicine at Boston. Medical Center and Boston University Medical School. She was kind enough to be giving us an hour of time to take your questions at eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one, eighty, nine, seventy, one to try the new father. Back to Brandon, with his one week. Old Newborn. So they. Can hear you this time. Brandon go ahead. I can hear you crystal clear grain so far so good. Yep, correctly. Terrific. Great. So I just wanted to ask you know obviously pretty nervous. We've been extremely cautious since March been basically, he didn't quarantine boats. Throughout my wife's pregnancy where being even more cautious now and just wondering if there's any new data, any new information as to how coded impacts, young children and babies, and if there's any extra precautions. We should be thinking about taking with our new baby girl at home, and you know if we're about. Congratulations Again Brenner. Yes congratulations, and thank you for your kind words also in the beginning So thinking about you know newborns can get krona virus There have been studies to show that especially for newborns who are exposed to be with coronavirus in the hospital or at home. Can. Have had the virus in their nose and you know that's part of how we find out whether children have the virus because they don't often have symptoms or if they have them, they're very mild You know that being said, there are very rare cases where newborns have had more serious symptoms but it sounds like you and your wife are doing a lot to. Faith and I really commend you for that. I, think that making sure that you are taking, you know the mental health space and time to get out together. So certainly, still safe to take your baby girl out with you and take walks with lots of space from other people. It's good. It's good for you. It's good. It's good for her for vitamin, D, and just some outdoor time, and you know obviously thinking would what you do normally for any newborn thinking very carefully about anybody sort of. Of into your sphere of your home but even more cautioned. So probably not having were definitely not having guests from out of town to come stay with you and then I think probably just doing the social distance cooing over over meeting her for until until we have a vaccine, are we know more information? So it can be a lonely time. I think for newborn parents. So just making sure that you're connecting to people even if you're not, you know physically close to them. Good. Luck. We're really glad to hear about it. Stay in touch with this, eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one, eight, hundred, nine, seventy. Let's go to Glenda in new. Hampshire. Thank you for Calling Glenda. Hi I, think for taking my call My question Dr is much towards last week. I heard on. NPR, that their that polio veterans. and I'd be tested people and there were six thousand. Cases for employees one for veteran. And it's kind of a two fold question. The first part being have gotten any further in in finding out if or how long immunity if there is any last in the second part of the question is that. Let's just say you get retest you. You have been married she. Got Surprising and again. eysenck marriage the first time that? The. Second time. Yeah. So I I, couldn't hear all the parts of your question, but I will do you know. I. Think the question is around How long do antibodies last when you have the coronavirus is at your question Glenda. Yes, it is And he not I'm not heard a lot about anybody has twice. and. I've heard was a naval ship and then the Veterans Hospital so I don't not heard a lot about it, but there are cases of. Well by the way, just to be clear isn't wasn't the original news out of Holyoke soldiers zone that there actually was one veteran who had tested positive for a second time after recovery. Am I right about that or? Am, I not want. You know. Once you go ahead while we're checking. Good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much. So you know they're they're I, think the initial data that came out or the stories that came out of people. Testing positive, and then feeling much better or or you know sort of being a normal state of health and then getting sick again. part of what we're we're seeing now is that they may not have ever actually gotten better. So the virus you know can of express itself and then it can go quiescent or sort of get more quiet and then come out again, and the thought is all actually the same first bout of infection which is you know both reassuring in terms of you not necessarily getting reinfected right away but disheartening because you can get the second set of symptoms or second wave of symptoms and when you when you're virus viral load is very. Very, low you may not come back as positive on the test. So there is a little bit of confusion or that piece of it and you know, but I think the The good news again is that as we're thinking about the immunology. So I'm not a virologist or immunologist, but thinking about some of the data and science behind it is that once we have the virus are actually our immune system does kick up and produce some antibodies for it that we know will be effective in the future for when we are faced with the virus. Again, the caller is correct several news outlets reporting that US a veteran at the soldiers home who had recovered. From Kobe tested positive again, this was showing symptoms again. So that's Disconcerting again. Yeah. The virologists that are coming out or saying that's actually a a second African But that it's you know that viral load gets quite low. In. Between. When you know it's sort of goes nascent and then, and then can you know when you get the symptoms again is when you can test positive again. So I, again, I think we're we're learning more as the days unfold, but that's what we understand now. You know what are the cause before talked about the what you, what people are experiencing in their recovery from Cova doctor, and I guess it has been all over the map where some people even very healthy people even very young people. Their lung capacity is diminished or. Other symptoms are lingering. So we're not really positive about that yet either. No I mean again, you know I the virus can affect all different parts of the body and like I said earlier, you know initially we had thought it was just sort of a virus for the lungs and now we understand it's a virus that affects the vascular system. So the vassals of our body and so really depends where it attacks So is it the vessels and along the vessels and the kidneys and to what degree it attacks and and as a result? What are the kind of long term consequences of of? Of how sick people are and how long it lasts, and you know again, it is really were just still learning all the ways that the virus can impact our body and I think we've learned a ton since March but but I think you know as we continue to sort of study cases of people have had it over the course of weeks and months Then we'll. We'll be gathering more and more about the way that the virus impacts our body for the long-term you another thing before we go back to the calls about schools. I don't think we've spoken to you since the study came out of South Korea. which suggested that unlike single digit age kids were, we seem to be right that if you're ten to nine nineteen, your ability to transmit is not unlike that of an adult. And people like, Dr. Burke, said we need to know more. There's got to be more study, etc, his any. That South Korea study is holding up I. Assume from what I've heard, and there is nothing further on people from ten to nine hundred other than what came South Korea. Yeah, that's correct I mean there, there is more recent data that just came out in Jama pediatrics. Last week that talked about kids five and younger. Where you swap their their nose and they actually have huge amounts, virus sometimes a hundredfold of adults but we're not for some odd reason, not seeing the transmission rates being high with those kids, but you are one hundred percent cracked I, mean. we don't see kids tend to nineteen getting a SEC, but we know that they can transmit. So I. think that's a really important point around schools that being said, you know we also know kids who are can tend to be quite a more rule followers in terms of wearing math more frequently, and and you know sort of having more altruistic ability to maintain their social distance and not that. That teens aren't altruistic, but some of that just goes out the window a little bit more and they're more prone to wanting to be kind of in groups and with their friends. Winless thing about school age kids is the I assume many parents around the country were just thrown total tizzy that report from the Georgia camp, where more than fifty percent of the people tested tested, positive, what I've read since. Is that while they followed some protocol, there were mandatory mass for staff but not mandatory masking for the kids for the campers themselves is that what should cause people not to be in a panic that? If they had followed that. Rule, the likelihood of infection been far lower. Yeah I. Love. I love. Thinking about what should. Not Cause people to be in a panic. I think we should create whole books about you know why you shouldn't panic, but one of them, one hundred percent is you know we have to actually be having all the rules and regulations in place and followed and have protocols, and this goes back to our earlier point that it should not be all of the owners of the individuals. Individuals, but we need protocols that are enforced and is the protocols are enforced and we still have high rates than we can panic a bit more. But this is this is pretty airtight in terms of the public health pieces that we've asked people do all along, and for the most part when we see upticks and we and we see outbreaks, these rules have been broken. Let's go to Cassandra in Milton. Thank you for calling Casandra like Asandra. Hi I listen to you guys all the time I never get to call and I'm glad I next. Thank you, I went. usually email but I I went to to state and When I came back, I saw the information about you know, the the self quarantining or a negative test result within seventy two hours so. I called my primary care physician and asked if I could get a test and the first person who has the phone I asked what their turnaround time was, and she said that she was hearing five to ten days. And and that was a bummer. But when she put me through to the scheduler. they asked me if I was a healthcare provider. And I said, well, technically, yes, I'm an occupational therapist, but I work for the city of Boston and. And she said, well, I'll. I'll schedule you as a healthcare provider, and so I went in for the first block of testing at seven thirty and I had my results and my online health portal by noon. Same. Though I know that it happens but apparently have to be. Certain categories and so with that said. I wonder as we're preparing or thinking about preparing to go back to school Are there any programs on the horizon for testing educators and would they get the same priority as healthcare providers because we would be with students? You know they're saying second-grade younger. Don't have to wear masks. I know from experience. Those are the ones that your face the most. so I don't know. How we would be able to track that for our own health and safety requesting designer. Rail 'cause. Yeah. So so know I think your your question or your point about the difference between sort of getting it done as a you know, healthcare provider versus not goes back to our earlier conversation about where the tests are done. So with their done. In hospital setting, it can be a much quicker and I had the same experience personally and you know I think part of what we need to be framing and I think part of the debate right now is are people who work in schools considered a central workers and I would argue they are and I know that they did not sign up to be essential workers. But if we're asking them to be on the front lines which we are, if we're actually reopening schools than the testing for them as frontline workers needs to be parallel to what happens for healthcare workers. So I think it's a really good and important analogy And and can be pushed as policy the more that we're actually talking and using the language of a essential workers. and. Good, luck. Thanks for calling. I have not independently verified. This is we're supposed to say and the media before you now see football said, he just got to day results for free from the Fenway Health Fan in Everett. So they go. Check it out. Maybe that's a possibility great and he's He's ace him to matic of so. Go. Let's go to jody and Providence High Jody. High All Dr Bond that thank you for your time and you work and Lamar Drian Jim. My question Dr Involves as symptomatic carriers wondering statistically of the people who have gotten tested and our ace comments of those people are asymmetric attic and why that's so imperative to know those statistics because it's our biggest challenge for community spread. We we should be assuming that someone even have mild symptoms. Go get tested. Then we can do all that contact races and stuff, but if you're ACM genetic. You know how many of those people would get tested, but that's my question of the people who have gotten tested. How many are reasons matic? Yeah. Hi Jodi. Thank you for your call so that you know I I, think your your question. Your is really again to the point of how difficult it is for a symptomatic people to be getting the test to date Actually think that as we go into colleges reopening in schools reopening, the rubber will really hit the road because at that point will actually have many many more. More people need to be testing or a symptomatic, and then we can get the data that you're asking for to date really The highest percentage of people are getting tested or anybody who has symptoms and then there's a trickling in people who are coming back into the state or you know wanting to go visit other people That hasn't been the majority of our data. And what Jodi thanks for the call and the estimates of experts is that right at forty percent of those who are infected or a symptomatic or my? Barring that actually, yeah, that's our latest data on that. So it's You know again but that, but that's through sample testing. So you know you don't take the entire population, say forty percent, but you know of of the people who have been sampled forty men are symptomatic. Recognise than your next with cussing Burger Burnett welcome. Thank you folks for taking my call. Thank you. Dr Some questions. I So I, I'm a massage therapist working the Greater Boston area, and one of my clients had attended the conference and got really sick. His mom got sick and then. I got sick less so than him and my wife got sick for about six weeks or so. With. A sort of a mild, a mild flu condition, and Then after six weeks, I got better and started getting back into life, and then you know ran into some problems whenever I exert myself like I usually jog for twenty thirty minutes whatever. But if I jogged for three or four minutes was pretty much wiped out day and a half. So I saw, but surely got better, and then in June I felt really good. I was building up my stamina and then I ended up pretty much of a setback for about two weeks of a flu like condition and I got better from that, and then about three weeks ago I had that same you know To the original flu like conditions. Again, that's been going for the last three weeks. So my question is in the beginning, I had the swab test which was negative. and. And just a few days ago, I had the Roach test which was negative. But clearly something's changed dramatically in my body since that day back in March that I worked on my client, WHO's at the conference I when wondering how I guess my question is how reliable are those? Tests. Yeah. So it sounds like it's been a journey for you recommend sorry to hear that and Y-. So so these tests you know we've been talking about so that there are false negative tests In other words, you could have the virus, but it could be at a level that it's not being picked up. So it could come back as negative and and you could have had it. So you know if you're getting as a viral load is declining again, those tests can come back as negative They're very frustrating. You're you're kind of unfortunately in the perfect subset of people who can be very frustrated because you're getting the negative test and then some people I have a patient that's very, very much the same way. The antibodies are. Are, also, coming back as negative. So saying, well, what's going on here and it could be something else I mean, it's definitely worth having your primary care physician. Do you know a further workup So we can't say everything is related to lid, but given the fact that you are giving a massage to somebody who was at the biogen conference and I'm assuming you know this individual was was positive afterwards, and that's worth finding out There these tests are imperfect and yet it's worth as we're getting better antibody tests to ask for repeat antibody test because what part of what we're understanding now is that the way that our body could be fighting this in the future is through something called her T. cells, which is not what all the antibody test for looking at right now So there is better testing on the horizon for that as well. But in the meantime I would also recommend making sure that you're kind of dotting your is and crossing your ts and thinking about anything else that could be causing the symptons. Good luck to you, boy. That's. time for one more quick one. Leah from Sharon. Thank you for calling. Hi Hi So nice to speak to you. I. Have Two questions. One is I'm kind of freaking out because we took a ride to Westerly Rhode, island did a little walk near the water. We had masks on, it seemed like nobody else did. And My husband keeps reassuring me that we were by the water. We were outside It's okay. But I'm scared to death that we did something foolish. like some. I I'm so sorry that you're you're carrying that that worry look it is It is absolutely You are right to be worried when you see people walking around without masks and I think you know the the beautiful thing about living in. Massachusetts. For the most part I see you know on people everywhere but I also agree with your husband that Um being outdoors really lowers your risk tremendously being by the water and having the breeze lowers your risk. Risk tremendously and the fact that you are wearing a mask is really the most important part of that story that you're protecting yourself and protecting those people who are around you So so again, I, hope that you can put that worried down, and obviously if you start to have symptoms should reach out but it sounds like you know given everything that the situation was very quite low risk Lee, arrest a little easier. Thank you for your. call any parting thoughts. Their doctor we have men left. The party thoughts are that you know Massachusetts we are still doing a tremendous job and but but I really I, want us to be thinking continue to think very. Carefully about we approach the fall and the winter about how we're going to be continuing to protect each other and again, really thinking about the mental social educational needs of our children and they came about everything that we can be doing now so that we can potentially get our kids back into some sort of schooling situation where they can get not only their educational needs met, but their social and emotional needs met as well. Catherine Goggin Brennan. Thanks again. You're really generous with your time. It's great to have the. Thank you Dr so much. Thank you mission. All right. Bye Bye. Bye. Thank you again. That was Dr Catherine, Gergen Burnett She's the vice chair of primary care innovation and transformation and residency director in the Department of Family Medicine at Boston. Medical. Center and Boston University medical, school. Again Dr Bernard Gerber. Not Thank you very much and thank you for listening to. Boston public radio tomorrow will be joined by C. N. N.'s John King and state Senator Becca Rosh, with the ultimate mail in voting explainer. What Jim? WHAT'S ON TV? Well that was abrupt. Thank you. You. You're on vacation but. The transition. Integrity Project. That was bipartisan group Republicans and Democrats together and studied different scenarios. If Donald trump contests, the elections and every single outcome was like an unmitigated disaster for democracy. Two of the participants in that war game simulator. David Fromm. Was Former speech writer, for George, W Bush and the former Kentucky. Secretary of State. Trey Grayson was also head of the Kennedy Institute Kennedy School in Politics. For Bunch years. They'll join me and Nancy Gertner retired federal judge is GonNa join me to discuss all the details of the jar sarin. I of decision. But. A great. A great show I think. So I WANNA. Thank our crew. Chelsea Moore's Arjun. Singh's Zoe Matthews. Have you believe in Aden calmly engineers John, the Claw Parker offsite engineers are mild Smith and Dave. Goldstein's north do Jim. What's because? You think it's bad. Now, when we have to be back in a situation of December, we should be building fire pits getting those outdoor. Heaters so that we can all. Understand the house. Actually I didn't want to give it away, but the next pledging GBH. Outdoor firepit that you can carry with you into. So you sean up again, tomorrow two days in a row. Thank you very much. Thank you I. Miss You too. I'm margery EAGAN. Jim Bradley. Thank you so much for tuning in. Please tune in again tomorrow and have a great afternoon.

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1082: "Otherize"

No Agenda

2:56:17 hr | 3 years ago

1082: "Otherize"

"Oh, you made the alien sound. The Joe Rogan makes Adam curry John. He divorced. I twenty eighteen this is your ward winning give on Asian media assassination. Episode ten eighty two. This is no agenda riding the caravan of love and broadcasting live from the combo of the drone star stayed here. Downtown Austin housing the Clooney in the morning, everybody occurring from northern Silicon Valley where everyone's talking about badoe. I'm john. D'ivoire hill. Okay. That's one way to do. It. Yes, we were talking. Maybe we should just reiterate that John, and I pretty much rarely speak during the week where we don't speak at all at say, maybe an Email or two and your little more active on Twitter. So, you know, I see what you're thinking more than usual, but we don't speak. We don't talk about what we're gonna do. We h do our own show preparation zephyr, right in Tom perfect. Perfect so happy it's going to be a good show. So I have no idea. What John's clips are? I mean, I I look at them when they come in. It's like, okay, I can see the titles and see if there's anything that. I have is. Well, and how we might folded, and that's it. And then just before the show. I don't know we were talking about. Oh, yes. Beto beto. Robert francis. Robert Francis better video, and I said, did you know that Betto is married to a an heiress of a twenty billion a reported twenty billion dollar fortune. And she's the only child, and I said what they don't play that up much. Do they it'll play up at all? I just heard from you this morning. That's why I wanted to talk about it. He is the daughter of William de Sanders, aka the Warren Buffett of real estate, according to Bloomberg. And she is his only daughter his portfolio was valued at about twenty billion dollars. Wow. Yeah. So it's guys run into. So so he's collecting all this money. He's collected more money for a guy in a pretty losing sixty eight sixty nine million dollars. I actually I looked at open open secrets what is it? Open open secrets who does all those one of them. Yeah. And looks like the majority coming from alphabet, actually, Google. Yeah. Google Google boys are are trying to buy Texas. Good luck, Google, boys. Let me see beta Rourke. Wasn't all that prepared you campaign finance summary here. This control top contributor university of Texas. Of course, alphabet, wait a minute. Why? So university of Texas do they did they give any money to cruise? I mean, why are they give money to anybody? This is they always jacking up the tuitions on the students yet they're giving money to political candidates. Yeah. This are they do a lot of that. All universities do that. What are you talking about these are political operations? Hello. Yes. Three hundred sixty five thousand dollars three hundred twelve to six five thousand three until alphabet. Ink's ink is second spot then Jay street, which is lobbyist lobbyists. Jay St Louis, then university of California a hundred and thirty one thousand four hundred and four dollars if the university of California gave Beddoe hundred over one hundred thousand dollars, this would you telling me? Yes, that's what I'm telling you will the next time. They. I think that'd been taken off the list, but they always call the alumni up asking for money. And I said I would give you money, but you're just gonna give it to to Obama last time. I tried Joe which is Bob mistress. Did they gave Obama a million dollars? I think what you asking for my ten dollars or my fifty or whatever it is. And I won't even give it to the library. Because I figured they're just funneling in that over there some political contribution. If the university of California's got enough money that they can blow it on Vado thing. I'm not gonna donate your screwing their alumni with this guy. Not. Sunshine. Don't blame it on moonlight blaming on the Beddoe. AT and T and right after university of California with the also a little over one hundred thousand dollars now by industry, according to open secrets democrat liberal, total of eighty eight eight point eight million dollars retired to said category. Retired three million dollars worth a Arp. Why deal with that lawyers and law firms three million dollars education, that's two point six? So there's more than just UT and university of California health professionals one point three. So it seems like a lot of special interests are interested in him, especially Jay street, come on Jay street now, I guess I figured that you Ted Cruz, but he moves from Poland. What are you moving moving? My little thing just fell off the shelf. You keep your little thing on the shelf at my computer. Here crews. Now, you're saying that there was a big push on the media to get this to get this guy some attention. There's a number of things I want to mention I wanna talk about that. Because I thought on that. And I also wanna talk about the fact of the democratic national committee's been telling beta to give them some of the money do it. He's got he's got sixty nine million. So man, a is other candidates that need to use it. And he's not spending it all. Apparently, we has ten million left when I looked yesterday. Oh, he spent quite a bit. Then I spent quite a bit quite a bit. But he's getting a lot of exposure us on popping up everywhere on pod, save America. And Chris Matthews yesterday to town hall at Houston university of Houston. Here's what I think is going on with the I think you're gonna see even more of them before this before next week is the media is promoting the heck out of this guy because they've got to get the old rules back on track. Meaning the more you spend more likely ought to win. Yes. And this guy has got a spending. He spent fifty nine million, according to you. It was holding back tan, and he's going to outspend cruised. There's no doubt about that. So he should win out in the wind. He out raised cruise for sure. Yeah. Buy good twenty million thing. Yes. So he should they gotta get him to win because they've taken breaks it. Yeah. One guy like this to win. And they they're on easy street. Because now everyone does it got to spend more money. Right. Yes. Everybody wins. Especially the consultants the consultants win wins. I don't think he's gonna win. I don't think. So either. It's looking it's looking like, I don't know. I don't think. So I'd probably the presentable means John. Let's be honest. You're talking about Texas. You're talking about, you know, the we are own country here, and we got no problem with Beto and the signs and everything I got no problem with the guy seems like a nice guy. But you know, we've been sold this this threat of the caravan. It's coming right towards us. This clearly is not a coincidence. The caravan is the caravan of laws it's heading toward Texas. Exactly. Yeah. And they're they're horrible people on it. They've taken I guess FOX's kinda take in the they've they've turned on themselves. I Shepard Smith turned on his Smith has been TT's. He's the token vertebral guy to get. So he's doing everything he can to get fired, but they won't fire him. But let's play the shepherds mid no invasion clip tomorrow, the migrants, according to Fox News reporting are more than two months away, if any of them actually come here, but tomorrow is one week before the midterm election, which is what all of this is about. There is no invasion. No one's coming to get you. There's nothing at all to worry about when they did this to us got us all riled up in April. Remember the result was fourteen arrests. We're America we can handle it. They need to do this kind of stuff and Shep is the perfect guy for it. And they they love him there. Come on. We know who runs all these media outlets. He had the Democrats on fine, just fine. So they took so because of this and other things they took a big chunk out of Lou Dobbs show, and and shelved it and kept it there. And they took it off all the recordings even though there was one you to which I listen to because it had to do with this. This this caravan. So have you read the right wing press? Oh my God. They're trying to suppress this. Hold on. I have I have the clips I have the clip from Lou Dobbs. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. I'm gonna I don't want to demean to mean your clips because I had the clips to and I think that they took him off because they're incredibly boring. Well, it's just a show. I mean, this is one thing it what happened is. Here's the sequence of events. Caravan invasion scary, then we get gab guy kills Jews in synagogue because Soros Soros becomes the comp so widespread that the Dutch national broadcaster in the Netherlands wrote an article about Soros and some and I think they would just translating. I've told they do this all the time, then a real journalist most of them just wake up in the morning. Look at the US papers. Okay. I'll just translate this in one line said, the juice Soros. Dada. Dada and that one line caused a national uproar. And what they were just use or ju- Soros. And so I think that was the national four in Holland. Yes, I think it was translated. There was supposed to be the Jewish Soros. And they were trying to show that this that he's being blamed for this because he's Jewish that's their story. But that's not the way it was written the juice Soros. So you get you know, robbing now yell from the. The ducks Anti-Defamation League. It it got incredibly crazy. And so now you have well, I'll just play this. You do you have the just a little bit of the clipping of any of it of the Dodd stuff. I I thought it was so no offense, you're clip. But I thought it was the reason they took it off because it was just it was boring as this guy with the Judicial Watch white, right? Yes in, but it's not Tom fitting in. Blackie has got nothing going on at apparently, he's not interested. Apparently, he's been banned from FOX. He's supposedly for being dull, the next guest this, FOX business news. Mall, where he spent four days on the ground witnessing the caravan just north of the Honduran border. Joining us tonight, Chris Farrell director of investigations for judicial director investigation with us. I know that this caravan was a subject of considerable interest for you for Judicial Watch. And certainly for the American people give us your first end, I'm going to because we have limited time ask you to be succinct time. Sure, your thoughts on what you witness in. What you saw on her? It's an overwhelmingly male caravan of mid teens to mid forties. I'd say the women and children are super minority. There are certainly criminal elements rolled into the caravan. There were children that were recovered from a human smuggling operation today. The Guatemalans are trying to hold them back in turn him back. But it's a very grave situation. Leftist groups are reported to be the organizers playing instrumental. Oh roles and financial roles leading. Sure, look, this is a criminal involvement on the part of these leftist groups, it's highly organized very elaborate sophisticated operation. I have that from the highest levels of the Guatemalan government. Their investigators. And I strongly urge President Trump and attorney general sessions through this comes a lot of these folks also have affiliates who are getting money from the Soros occupied State Department, and those are very. That's it. That was it. It was the Soros the sore. Now, let me just explain one thing about this. I think what he's trying to say it comes out in the very, very unfortunate way is that the Open Society Institute. The George Soros is his the mothership of all of his philanthropic deeds gives so much money to all these little NGOs of just hundreds hundreds of NGOs. But a lot of the money does come from US and that is directly from the State Department. I think that's what the guy is trying to say, but it comes out in a way that Brian seltzer water over there to CNN. Well, he understood the the dog whistle last night after I think this is with what's his face to crystal Bill Kristol, I say the killing right? Someone on FOX business had a guest talking about was the Soros occupied State Department. Let's pull that up because a tweet about this by Josh Marshall went via. Barely conceal. You wanna play the clip from Lou Dobbs cut, so gross. Yeah. Don't wanna give it anymore. Autism. Oh, gross. I don't want to give any more oxygen. How is it? So what is gross about it? The well, crystal just said, the gross part that was it that was there's nothing else in the boring clip. But this continues the point of the segment as doc Marshall is saying here is that Lou Dobbs had a guest on from Judicial Watch saying the caravan from Central America was being funded or directed by the Soros occupied states over the source occupied as a play on Zionist occupied government, which is a very familiar. Great versus to others and his the bit of the riders but obsessed with him for that among other reasons, and this brings it all together. So it's the Jews the Jews occupying the US government and bring in alien invaders into this country, and that has been you don't have to go. But there's something to this. And I'll get to it in a moment far, unfortunately into not just write websites, but even onto Fox News as we saw to get that kind of the fire and say, you're blaming them. Are you blaming them? I'm blaming them for putting that guest on the air and not correcting him in real time. And so far as I know twelve hours later doing nothing about it. And I blame me honestly at this level after we have Tucker caused that Laura Ingraham, but I've known all these people in the past on TV every night. I'm blaming the management of FOX, and the investors and FOX and the some of the other talent who are decent people at FOX for saying nothing. This has been going on a long time. If you watch FOX and primetime, and I don't, but you read about it. You see clips it's really appalling. And. It's not just FOX. They're making money. Stop it. Stop it. Can't do what he just did. I can't say does you guys crazy? They're doing stuff. I won't watch it. I've never heard a word of it. I heard clip and somebody read about it read about it. Horrible. You can't be making these sorts of statements. If you're on d shows Bill Kristol, by by the way, he's a liar because you know, he watches this stuff, of course. Now, let me remind you where this comes from. And I got a couple of emails about people reminded me of clip. And I think we brought it up in a very similar fashion about and this is I think a lot of the conspiracy theories from the crazy Jew haters stems from clips like the following. This is a flashback for the no agenda show, this we had this. We played the very short thirty six seconds a couple of years ago. This is Barbara Lerner spectre, she's the founding director of the Sweden, and you may recall that the Paiva it's P A E. I D A pie. Ida paiva. I don't know how to pronounce it. They have a mission and their mission is the multicultural integration in this case of Europe. So listen to what she says. I think there's a resurgence of antisemitism. Because at this point in time Europe has not yet learned how to be multicultural. And I think we're going to be part of the throws of that of that transformation, which must. Take place Europe is not going to be the monolithic. Societies that they were in the last century Jews couldn't be at the center of that. It's a huge transformation for Europe to make. They are not going into multicultural mode in juice will be resented because of her leading role. But without that leading all without the transformation. Your survey. So this is taken quite literally. And I don't know what their mission is what I'm hearing her say, this is a real foundation real outfit is she saying the Jews are responsible, and it's their mission, or at least these Jews. It's their mission to create to shepherd in the multicultural society in Europe. That's what I'm hearing her say, and it's back what she said, that's creating resentment. I would think it might. Yes. And so when you get the. Was it? The HEI see has the Hebrew international the Hebrew immigration aid council. Whatever the the, squirrel hill. Synagogue shooter was posting about. That that up racial. Yes. You know, he's been oversocialized on on social networks. And so his his brain fries. It's I'm not making excuses just telling you where it's coming from. And he's heard about this. And when you hear a clip about that now that pertains to Europe. We've see some pretty nasty things in Scandinavia particular was it Denmark where you know, where the guy kill like eighty kids. Yeah. I that. Yeah. That will we covered it very well at the time. Remember on the island? We covered the heck bridge Brett doorway Norway. I'm sorry was in Denmark. Norway. Yes, that's why I didn't remember the Denmark. Yeah. And you know, so and that would comes from the same place. But here you have what's happened here. Is you get Bill Kristol? And Brian seltzer. I think both Jewish and you know, what they're doing is just putting more flames on the fire by going from the Jews or trying to shepherd in the multicultural society. Despite what Whitey thinks I'm just not telling you from my perspective. But from what I think these people think. Oh, and here's to Jews who run the media kicking the guy off. I mean, it's it's it's very inflammatory. Because that's another staple anti-jew staple. Well, that's interesting. I'm glad you got the Lou Dobbs clip to show people what it was really about. Which was a minor comment that was ill advised and boring quite if you listen to the whole thing, why did I did this is why they cut it out? I did I was like, whoa. I mean, it's almost like obvious skating. The evidence of faith fake outrage to me, that's what that's what feels more like than anything else. Yes. The fake outrage. Well, this reminds reminds me actually of the nine one one call at. Yeah. That's Andy hook, which we get. Trying to get us deep platform here. A roll today. We played the nine one one call, and it was it was like the Lou Dobbs. It was boring. It was nothing going on. And that's why they didn't want to play it. They just made up. The fact that it was exciting. Yes. And they they're making this up to that this, oh, some horrible thing happened on the Lou Dobbs show now they've smeared Lou Dobbs in the process, but it has sparked a national renew with. I mean, again, the the events are very interesting to watch and just the sequences so coincidental where you have Texas lots of money being spent on Beto, we got lying Ted sleepy. Ted, whatever it is. We gotta be gotta hook them up. We can't we can't. We can't have a Texas flip. And I've always said it could flip. It wouldn't be that hard. If you had you had the right candidate, and you think right candidate, maybe? But right candidate would help. I mean, they have you know, they will vote for a democrat. If if it's a conservative fashion, conservative democrat. Sure. Betto that guys like like a screw loose liberal. And so all the screw much. But it's obvious that we're a battleground state for whatever reason which seems ill advised, but okay. So they pour a lot of ill advise. I think they've figured look we're not getting anywhere with this with our. We're not getting the money that we should be getting the media people the media moguls, and we're not getting the money. But what if we could flip Texas with because we just over? We just got a lot of money. Yeah. Texas would be 'cause you're not get would you flip? And something that's always on the borderline is not any. So what but flip in Texas. Would it be? Major boost to the media people that need more money. Well, I tell you Austin for one is just Beddoe land. I mean, they're the signs at the signs are ever rewire. I think he lives in Austin doesn't he no he lives in El Paso, oh, El Paso, anyway. So you have the the beta surgeons all the money, you know, just to make sure let's whether it was instigated on purpose or whatever. It is caravan scary invasion, caravan scary, invasion, then by coincidence. Some guy goes off on the Jews. I'm just saying at the way, he would say the Jews helping them to invade us based on this back story supported by statements such as this this lady whose in Sweden. And you know, so he's he has this theory. And he there's there may be some truth to it. I don't know some he goes off and kills people m then the caravan story turns into, you know, well, you know, it's just George Jew. And then we shut it all down shut down the whole conversation. It seems like both. If I if I wasn't so skeptical you'd think both sides are to this is I always have to remind myself. The elections really matter in the power structure. I have no doubt people are willing to kill maim organiz. What? No, I'm seriously, you can get someone killed in in Holland for five thousand euros these days. It's gone down quite a bit. The people have just no one these people don't give a crop. They'll kill anything. If if it can get them, Texas, or whatever it is. Both sides Republican did all crazy this crazy powers at work. Well, wouldn't surprise some digital slow down after the mid term. Well, yes, of course, hopefully, not too much because your show. I had I can't can we stay on this for second. We stay on the we're going to stay on it. I just going to say I got some I've got some more stuff. I don't know if veers off too much, but I'm for example. The Don lemon getting veering off too much. No, no, no. No. No, no. You know what? Actually, it's a good idea. Have the full Don line Joan have I got the I got the middle because here's what's going on and long as you're clip two minutes. Get your you want it in context. I've noticed over the past four weeks. There's been an increased. I'm seeing increasingly videos going viral that sh- that show Democrats being a holes, racist, etc. But they are clipped out of context and someone's doing it much more professionally than I've ever seen before. In fact, I even. What you want right? And so I do have some examples of that coming up later, but this one of Don lemon. Actually is entirely in context. And here it is with the crow the Cuomo kit. Not just Pittsburgh. It's not just the bomber. There was another hate-filled criminal just last week in Kentucky. Another white man history of violence custody for shooting and killing to African Americans in grocery store, Kroger's. But when he tried to do was barge into a predominantly black church and failed. And then he picked a secondary target is being investigated for hate crimes. Don, lemon is here. Right now, we barely had time to cover it because we were distracted by another extremist that was doing bad things in the name of hate. And then now another one, and you have all of them in a row, and you know, we talked to we message about this a little bit this weekend. I keep trying to point out to people not to demonize any one group or anyone ethnicity. But we keep thinking that the biggest tariff threat is something else. Some Simpson people who are marching towards the border like it's imminent in the last time. They did this a couple of hundred people came, and they you know. Most of them did get into the country. Most of them tired got it out before they even made it to the border. So we have to stop demonizing people and realizes the best pie keeps it. We've gotta stop demonizing people man, you got to stop this. This is Don lemon serious. Don. Stop demonized untuckit out before they demonize. So we have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men. Most of them radicalized to plan. We have to start doing something about them. Travel ban travel ban on you know, they had the Muslim ban. There is no white guy band about that. And I. He asked a rhetorical question. There's no white guy band. What do we do about that? As if that's a question anybody's asking. So at this point because I've seen the viral clip. Okay. You know, there's probably something some context that is not there for whatever reason on them. There is no ban on you know, they had the Muslim ban. There is no white guy ban. So what do we do about that? So and first of all let me just say this either way stop stopping in the the Muslim was never a Muslim ban. It was a band specific to certain countries. White guys lived in those countries and white guys were also banned. Don, lemon is a. I don't know if he's dating or married to a white guy. His his boyfriend or husband is a white guy. But he's he's a good kind of white guy. See we to start getting down twenty-seven there. You Stoller does the name and Vicky Jones, and they have been lost in all of this to people who were killed on Wednesday that you talk about they have been lost about this. And I know that you feel that this story has not gotten enough coverage, and we will honor them tonight in our program. But go on Chris, right? Good. No, no. I'm going to do it in the closing. You're making the right point covering the right story. And I appreciate you for that. So it's true. What he said really came out of his pie hole. That's it's after seconds after saying we got to stop demonizing people. But I guess white guys aren't people or something some anti white thing that's going on coincidentally, the murder of Whitey Bolger. Now. This has multiple layers actually, John this has multiple layers piles onto that I do have a Whitey Bolger clip. We'll play it later because there's really not about this anti white thing. But it is it is is good. I read this morning that they cut his tongue out. No, no, they. Well, the latest that I heard here's what I got this morning L. L? Yeah. Yeah. It I might understanding as they attempted to cut his tongue out. Okay. Maybe. But let's, but they did Gouges is out just briefly on this. If each just just briefly on on Whitey Bolger and by coincidence, H L, N headline news, CNN sub affiliate. You know, their little sister station. Did it had a two hour special running all day yesterday about Whitey Bolger? And you know, was he was he a snitch for the FBI was he not? And we claimed he wasn't there's you know, there's an incredible history behind Whitey Bulger's BI that tipped him off to get let him escape the whole Whitey Bulger's story is a huge embarrassment for the FBI, but they're trying to make amends through its AHL. And they're not going to get anywhere. So. Republican Louie Gohmert wrote a couple years ago, a long blog post and put it into show notes about Robert Mueller who at the time was very involved. There was also a rogue outfit of the FBI in Boston. And they were completely integrated with the gangs with the Whitey Bolger Bolger gangs, and they became criminal themselves. And from what I understand if you read Louie Gohmert public blog post, he says that Robert Mueller has a lot of problems regarding Whitey Bolger. And I think because Muller's about to come out with his report, he the before after the midterm doesn't really matter. That's that's what we're being told. I believe that two things again coincidence, we got Whitey Bolger very famous complete corrupt FBI at the time. Robert Muller at not the director, but high level in the FBI. And then all of a sudden, we have a allegations whether they're bullcrap or not, you know, that he, you know, sexual assault Muller's under attack now. Yeah, I have and they had someone had to kill. I think they had to kill Bolger to shut him up because you know, their stories that he was about to blow the lid on the FBI, which could have totally even just the assumption could have completely discredited Muller will they can't well first of all day. I can tell you that the whole Muller targeting is a hoax. Well, the the women think sounds like a hoax. Yeah. I'm not thinking the letter that was sent to the journalists which was posted. That letter was a hoax. I don't know. What letter you're talking talking about? It was a letter that was sent to a number of journalistic outlets. I have a copy recently or a long time ago was doing that set off this whole thing. It was a whole the the letter was sent to world net daily of just about all the major. About about the women who are who are being paid yet. Or the letter itself was a hoax. Yeah. Sure letter itself was a hoax in. It was an structure like a hoax. Yes. And it was designed to embarrass the media because nobody did any research and never found founder who wrote the letter they didn't do any of this. Because the entire letter was a hoax done by a couple of guys back east, you want you want to hear the the NPR report of this of this letter, some pretty funny wording. Joins us now fill. This is weird. We know so far about the story. It's a very weird story it if it's a hoax that appears to be a hoax within a hoax. So. They're really stretching. Now there would be a hoax within a hoax hoax. It's a hoax within a hoax Gatien's that came into inboxes in Washington of reporters, including NPR from someone who called herself woman in Florida who had allegedly been offered money to make these false charges against Muller. And what may be the case is that women actually does not exist, and that those false charges were in fact, false charges about false charges. What isn't clear is whether this was intended to embarrass a special counsel's office or just embarrassed the journalists who had been sent this E mail as they try to investigate and report on it. No pretty much Baxter story up the hoax within a hoax within a hoax. Here's here's an interesting little factoid. And you actually may not have even realized you were part of this after Sunday show. I was go through the tweeter line timelines. See what people are saying make sure won't can receive it. And if I of course, I if I mess up mop, I have to go, correct, something and someone re tweets the show. I'll give them a little like, you know. Hey, thanks for retweeting. And there was this one producer, I presume who liked it. And then all of a sudden some guy jumps in and starts yelling at them. Like, you know, your full of crap and all this, and you and I are both tag in this tweet stream. And this the guy who who liked and he tweeted the show was Jacob wall. This is one of the main guys who was supposed to created this hoax and here he is liking our show. And then some other guy comes in full of crap. And you're Jacob wall. You're full of this. And and somehow we're both in this time line and more people jump on. And then someone says something about you know, hoax. And then you think they're saying something about you show me where I said hoax, and then the guy comes back. Hey old clown. Shut up. Learn how Twitter works like. Wow. How I don't wanna be. Yeah. That all that clown that said that had like four followers. There are way too many people following the two of us that are got to followers three dollars four followers. I go, and they they come up with these snipe. Be remarks I rarely respond to the one found. I found interesting is one of the main players of this hoax. Apparently listens to our show. Yeah. Visit. He is actually the hoax ter-. No. I I don't know either. But yes, it's well, it's good. He should listen to the show, which part get some good ideas. And we back to this whole thing you want it. Let's get these out of the way since we're I think it's part of the bigger discussion, which we seem to be having about Whitey. Let's get the Whitey Bolger dead clip out of the way. So we can hear at least understand how great it was that he was killed for many victims James Whitey Bulger's reign of terror, his violent death, Tuesday seemed all too fitting deserve the flow death. And that's what I hope he got. I'm going to buy myself a wallet champagne, and I'm gonna pump that cook. We are celebrating the death of Whitey Bulger radio host in Boston Herald columnist how we car says boulders ordered a hit on him after he started writing about the Irish mobster. According to one of his associates, they they got some see forks blow Cives from some of their. FBI agents and tried to blow me up with it. Putting it in a basketball. According to the Boston Globe bonkers is were nearly gal out and two inmates including a convicted mafia hitman or seen on surveillance video entering boulder cell Tuesday morning. I'm glad he did it if I could put money in this campaign form Bolger rose to power by ratting out. His rivals in the seventy s through the ninety s he's seemingly ran the winter hill gang with impunity having paid off police and FBI agents. Bulger's brutality and ruthlessness inspire. Jack Nicholson's character in the departed and Johnny Depp, plead him in the movie black mass in nineteen ninety-five tipped off to an imminent federal indictment Boulter and his longtime girlfriend Catherine Greg went on the run landing him on the FBI's most wanted list when they were finally found sixteen years later, they were using fake names and posing as retirees in southern California, Scott, Gary Ola, the FBI special agent who arrested Bolger spoke with sixty minutes. Steve Kroft in twenty thirteen. I asked him to identify himself, in fact and go over well, he asked me to f- in identify myself, which I did. And I asked him are you are you Whitey Bolger? He said, yes, you're not supposed to be happy when someone dies. But this guy was a monster a fiend, and one of the most horrible people I ever hope to me, I do like the subtle persuasion of kill Whitey. Yes. Kill whitey. And we're glad white. He's dead. Yeah. So the message the message right here, you'll white light. He's dead now, which is in Peru incidents with though, Don, lemon commentary and a lot of the other stuff. Now, the funny thing about this about the Whitey Bolger thing was that he besides being tipped off by the FBI. So he could escape and kind of was eighty nine but the federal prisons prison guys kept moving him from prison to prison. I think they were trying to get him killed and they finally found a prison with the skies. This one guy in particular who is like fanatic. Is it looks like a good looking guy to a Greek Greek never made Greek hitman, and who hated to things according to one of the reports he hated snitch is. And he hated women people who abused women and Whitey was both. He used to kill women. He him and a friend of his in the prison who'd probably was nice guys. They took him stuff summoned his mouth and they're starting to kill him by beating him to death. And they seemed to really show that there's no bruises on anybody. I guess I think this guy's gonna kinda get off. They maybe it wasn't extraction. Maybe white. He's not dead. Who knows? For the FBI. I don't know. I'm just throwing stuff out. Yeah. It's not much crazier than kill Whitey being related to Don. Lemon. I mean, that's kill Whitey. They didn't kill why in that's. Oh, man. Okay. Where were we? Well, I can go back to I have a little clip of Meco talking about the caravan. Okay. Let's go back new Brzezinski from the morning Joe's, I pull back and look at the politics of this. I'm a suburban mom a privileged one for sure. I think I have a pretty good feel for why a lot of these competitive suburban house district seem to be trending toward the Democrats. Most days, it seems like the entire Trump presidency has been purposefully geared toward alienating suburban women some of whom chose Trump over Hillary Clinton. But are now looking to put a check on this out of control presidency. His poignancy. Scandals his rhetoric all things that are deeply disturbing to many Americans. But if you're a woman and a mom and just a regular voter. How can you look at Donald Trump's reaction to those bombs sent to some of his most prominent critics and his graceless behavior in the wake of Pittsburgh synagogue shooting and not be to put it. Bluntly, absolutely disgusted. Bluntly. This week. Trump will continue to campaign horrid for his Republican candidates not shying away from making this election. A referendum all about him. There are a lot of segments of the electorate that will determine how things turn out next week. But I say I beg. I plea to all mothers, not just those who live in suburbs. But everywhere. Think about what message voting for Republicans send Donald Trump think about your children. Kidding people that are making it about Donald Trump, aren't isn't Donald Trump everybody else. I have a clip. Of Elizabeth Warren being called out. Oh, this is great. I'm glad you. She called out for election campaign via violations. It it doesn't. I didn't clip it because I wondered if it would work without seeing that silly expression on her face. That's very fine fine listening. But thing is he calls her out on this. And she immediately turns it into Donald Trump thing. And one of the thing that really we found out recently. I think is pretty in conscionable is the fact that Senator Warren was fundraising illegally using the vote on Justice cavenaugh, the confirmation vote to try to raise money for her campaigns that just came out, you know, that's something that you should not be doing first of all when we were having a national discussion about the supreme court is trying to fundraise off it. But you did and turns out it's illegal. Can I know go ahead, please? Yeah. Question here. I hear Mr. deals of statement about how wrong it was the way that Dr Ford was treated, but I don't remember Mr. deal speaking up when Donald Trump made fun of her. I don't remember Mr. deal, speaking out when the Republicans or actually reim- rotting through the cabin on nomination. I I may have just missed it. But I I don't remember it. You know, that's because Senator Warren I don't look for every opportunity to try to grandstand. I didn't call you responding to the mayor of Somerville. Some rule making a pretty negative statement this last week. But the fact of the matter is that was such an intense moment in our country's history. As far as trying to deal with presumption of innocence, the cornerstone of our legal system, and you were willing to throw it right out the window because you were part of the Senate Democrats who were trying to score political points by using poor Dr Ford. Testimony as a way to drag down a man without any corroborating evidence. So I don't think I quite understanding answer. I'm looking for the times when you've called out Donald Trump when he's stayed fun to someone like Dr. Dr Phil made fun of someone who I would. I would like to drill down on what Representative deal said, the the fundraising while the vote was being taken on the Kevin did you did you not do that? Actually. I don't know. And I don't know what the. Ethics committee. Plane has been filed about a fundraising. I will I will check into. She's toast. Well, she's a democrat in the mess democrat. You know, what really, but was noticeable to me when I saw that clip was the incredible. Because almost not used to a debate the last time we saw debate. Well, there was crews and Beddoe, but you know, really in your mind a debate between a Republican and a democrat as shouting match. It's Trump, you know, bound bound bound and this was. In this case good. But but it was very interesting. Just because the the format is. Here's what like to lead into. I'm noticing. The people are either trying to go the opposite way like this very calm and collected or like President Obama trying to do a little bit of Trumpy is stuff. Bummer can't do it. But he's trying. He's trying to get mad and he's trying to. Well. He will you have the stammering clip about the caravan. Yeah. I let me see how long mine is let me see. I have it here. Oh, yeah. This is he's in Wisconsin. Which is of course, very important. Yeah. Exactly the same same length a mine's a little clip. Yeah. Yeah. But but let's just Obama. Actually the first time. I saw this. I didn't have I just somebody said look at this. And I looked at it. But I didn't I never turn the sound on because I was just watching him. And he looks like he's I mean seriously unglued. He's three key looking. He's is hair is like, you know, turn almost half gray. And he's he just doesn't look healthy. He looks terrible. And in when he does this bit here, he has no prompt or it. He's just going shooting off the cuff, and we know what happens when he's when he's shooting off the cuff. He starts stutter stutters. Yeah. So here he is in Wisconsin. Which is you know, is now claimed as the that was the state the only seventy thousand votes in Wisconsin. So he's trying to rile everybody. I think there's only a thousand people may be in the audience. What didn't seem like a huge crowd eight thousand people of anything is pretty big. And he, and I think he's really trying to do a little bit of Trump energy that the thing. That that is the most important thing in the elected not healthier enough. Not. Whether or not folks are able to retire. Not not doing something about higher wages. Rebuilding. Our roads and bridges and putting people back to work. He's just spouting off. I think we have away where was she during his eight years in so far as building rebuilding roads and bridges, but I'd like president for eight years where are these roads and bridges? Don't you? Remember when he started off shovel ready? Chappel ready jobs. Yes, shovel ready jobs, and then the banks got all the money. Oh, silly us. But yes. Why don't you get in jail? It seems like we do have more jobs. But okay, let's just now it's not notice how it goes from asylum seekers people very sad trying to get away from from certain death in their country, which is what we've been told. It's like these people are running for that lives for this one a better life. And now he's diminishing them putting people back to work. Suddenly, it's this group of we don't even know where they are way down there. The biggest thing. And you know as soon as the election's over. What what happened? We were being invaded where to go. Yeah. You know, what it would be funny except? They do what every time and too often at works. Everybody gets all freaked out. And we gotta stop falling for this stuff. We we're like Charlie Brown with football. You can't fall for that. Okay. No don't be hooked. We. Oh. I love we can bring our old songs back now. Okay. There was something else. Yes. He says Lucy and the football. And this is this was interesting to me says Charlie Brown, Charlie Brown with football because I was reading let me see let me see where this is. There was an article that I got to an article from nineteen ninety about Trump and let me see where it is. I'm not quite. Led to it from some other article from from last year, and it's a it's a round the time when you know, got Marla Maples just coming into his life. The casino is going down all the stuff happening. And it's a very it's a. Vanity Fair, actually. So this big piece, you know, all the grandeur and his rise to power and how everyone loves him and the rap stars. And then all of a sudden he had this horrible, bankruptcy, and he comes right back. And and the media just was all over and at the end of the of the article, and this is why I'm pissed I can't find it that easily. It actually says that the the the press waiting for him at the court in the in the press room at the courthouse for one of his many pieces of litigation and the journalists are they're yelling at each other. I can't believe it. We let we built this guy. We gave them all the publicity. And now, we screwing us. We hate this guy. Like, it's a complete fractional. They've already gone through this one. That's actually what I filed it under Fratto. There you go. It's Donald any vonda Trump's divorce the full story. Let me just read the last the last paragraph to you. So I get very long article. Here. It is. I wonder down to the the the writer the interview I wanted to the press room on the fifth floor to hear about Trump's testimony, the reporter sounded weary. They had heard it all before quote, God damnit one shot at me. We created him. We bought his bullshit. He was always phony, and we filled our papers with them. They've done it before. It's it's all it's just playbook facto, it's total. Do I have the frac thing haven't used that in so long? Good catch while I thought of you when I read that like, holy crap. They've been down this road with him facto. Facto? Now, just staying on this for one second scare Mucci. The scare mooch was on Bill Maher Friday. Yeah. Yeah. This this show was actually was interesting to watch stormy Daniels on he didn't ask anything of any importance accepts the ends that you did something important for the country like. Is worthy. Watching just for that. One quote from Bill Maher with scare mooch is on promoting his book. So Scaramucci for eleven days was the press secretary for Trump, and this is a couple minutes tonight. Believe is still purpose to be there was to get rid of rents pre-bus. A hatchet, man. Oh, very possible. Now, what he is going to do in this clip. He was really, of course, the odd man out. You got max boot. Who's on the panel along with Betsy would draw who's from the Daily Beast. She's she's frightening. She just like Shouf ice cold just points in grimacing. I rolling got mar. And then and scare to scare mooch is death on the panel on the panel. He's outnumbered. So he's really outnumbered. But what he's trying what he's trying to do is explain to Bill Maher in particular. But to everyone in the panel, what Trump is doing with the media when it comes to lies. And so, you know, this whole lead in which I'd left off of Bill Maher reading all the lies and everyone's getting he lies. He lies just. Thousands of lives so many lies and scare them. What's the whole time is well, let me let me just explain explain what's happening. So because you're you know, any actually says you'll hear it in this clip. If you want to beat him, listen to me, do you think they listen, by the way? No, it's an incredibly important point here to refute. What Anthony's trying to say here, which is that, you know, somehow politicians lie, and he may be lies a little bit more. No, this is off the charts flying this blizzard. By the way in all of these shows. There's a real problem that they're going to have to dress pretty soon, you cannot produce a television show where after everything someone says, which is pretty much virtue, signalling you get fifteen seconds of applause. It's annoying as you're they have to figure something out because it's it's it makes the clip twice as long because a lot of politicians lie a little bit for Donald Trump lying as the default mode. According to the Washington Post, he lies an average of eight times a day if he tells the truth, it's an accident. Okay. Calling him out on it is a lot like being the hall monitor in the elementary school calling him out on it just like schools need homeowners. But we should be doing really help you. If you want to beat the guy, right? Yes. Okay. So if you wanna listen, I can actually inside what he is doing is. He is galvanizing his base. He has figured out that by mechanize ING these words the way he has. And getting you upset and max upset and having ten people at CNN read the lies, and I think the Washington Post has the six thousand lies. Let's say it's ten thousand line record-breaking fifty thousand. Do you make the points as fifty thousand what he's doing is? He's got the volume up on something. And he's made it a calculated bed that the people that are voting for him don't care about that. And he's made a calculated. Why I said, right? But what is the what is the turn? If you're saying don't out on the lie say in the minutes thing. So all of that doesn't matter we want and they lost. What did he say? I get that. But what is the alternative to not calling out lies? We all live in a world where we're pretending what the mad king sees is. We all know. He says this guy is we don't call them out on that because him strategy, okay? To call him out on it. But you see all upset you're getting right now. There's a group of people upset everybody should be. He's not getting it. Haven't gotten a fair shake from the government? So if you call them out for the lies people think you're not gonna lose really. Here's what's important. There's gonna lose again. And when you when you bag after the election, and he's warning. I'll explain to you what he did to you you've explained it. But it's not really advancing. Nation. That's the strategy and it's working. Now, this this this woman's going to say something but another minute, but I couldn't really take her out of context. But she's annoying years. There's going to be a national crisis. There's going to be some sort of mass casualty event or recession or economic disaster. And the American people will need to know that someone in a position with already is telling them things true every time the president tells a ridiculous mythological Najib magical nonsensical lie. Yes. There's a there's a defense that you can may sort of this political Maquiavelian perspective, but in the long term for this country if laying the groundwork little right? All right. John. Wrap it up. Help say what he said if you notice the mooch comes in is chicken little little argument exact answer the question, you're asking and you're gonna like the second half of the show, probably a little more. I'm not asking the question. John explain what he's doing very animated about it. And a lot of people like that maybe not these people, but there's a large group of people in middle America that light cutting candidate. About this assaults on Anthony. Can't even really see. Actually give you the playbook. We're not having this conversation. Different to different levels. Mooch is trying to say Trump the whole idea is he riles everybody up and and his supporters love watching you blow your top. And he's blowing his top. As you saying that this is dumb. It's very funny. That's one of the really that's an outstanding borderline clip of the day. Now moves to the good job on that. To back up that clip. I have the Jon Stewart on Trump where where he explains what Trump is doing journalists and nobody's really paying much attention. This is Christiane on four. And I think he's doing thing over in London with the Dave Chapelle. In this in this clip thing because obviously we're all caught up in this sort of Dany from fest. I mean, every single newspaper every radio station every bit of social media gotta make money too. Well. Got bills the payment, and you've got electric bills. You got food. You know, this guy is he's giving you all cash the cash flow in the Trump era for the for these TV stations for these that might be an issue. And maybe it's still is an issue for the people who are the being counted? But we the journalists we I think believe that our job is to navigate the truth and to do the checking and all the rest of it. So I think that's what motivates have taken it personally, personally wounded and offended by this, man. He baits them, and they dive in and what he's done. Well, I thought is appeal to their own nor system to their own ego. Because what he says is the journalist Adams. We are noble. We are honorable. How dare you, sir? And they take it personally. And now he's changed the conversation to not that his policies are silly or not working or any of those other things. It's all about the fight. He's he's able to to. Tune out everything else and get people just focused on the fight even about Bob Woodward said that in his book on on the Trump White House that a lot of journalists to emotional about this. But it's hard for us to be dispassionate when woods from the White House and aggressive against us and raise this here. We're guessing to believe in the community feels think of Muslim. I think. The black. Do you know what you know what he's do? What's happening right here is John Stewart is explaining identity politics as it pertains to journalists. He saying he does I don't think he realizes it. But the identity politics, primarily the democrat party is speaking to LGBTQ community speaking to the people of color community, speaking to the Latino community speaking to all these different communities, and now he's literally putting the journalists into a politically identified grew as as a heart or victim. This would be natural to him against. And. Raise this here. Again, the communities. I believe the community though, feels think of Muslims think of the black people, you know, when journalists rise to this outrage of how dare you say this about the lives of been leading under this and they've been put on I think it's. I think it's identity politics. Number things. I find to be quite interesting. But I I'm reminded of the early Trump campaign before he actually was running. But he was starting to run. Or maybe he's right after you came down, the escalator is that when he said all Mexicans are, rapists. Yeah, that yeah. That does what he did. Because that by the way is repeated every day, it's not even a question. Nobody cared. That's not a lie. No. That's not a lie. No, not at all. So, but that's but anyway, I remember him being interviewed at down inside the Grand Central Hyatt. Would by Katy Tur. Oh, yeah. He insulted her. We had the clip he insulted her number of times. Very good job at you. It's not the right. You want me to help you help you add answer these these questions because you don't know what you're doing something like that. Then within within a, and I think she from there on she just held a grudge craw. Then then the next time we saw that we exploited where we exploited was this. Let's say it was a Katy unloads on Trump over violence at rallies. No this no this. This was the result for. I don't think you can find that Katy versus Trump. Maybe this plant says part three. So let's see what this fine under the radar and refusing to comment on Trump. We'll be is now attacking perhaps smelling blood in the water on. No, okay. Anyway, the next one that happened that we put on the show was major Garrett who also had huge hard on for Trump after this. He insulted him. He says, you know, you baby should do your job a little better or something just some minor thing. But you could see that Garrett was insulted, and these journalists are actually the ones who are thin skinned Jordan nailed it. Yes. He nailed it. These guys are all biting at the chomping at the bit to like, you know, get back at Trump instead of doing their job. And that's what we have our show is about doing their job for them. And you're right Stewart nails that he says the way these people must feel and of course, they feel that way because of what the victimization. Nation. That's being pumped into them mainly from democrat politicians the. Yeah, that's hurtful, and so that's what it's like with you guys. And you're not realizing that even though he said the fake news is enemy of the people. Now boil down to do you ever press card, you might as well have a target on your head? And by the way, it was the media itself debt, you know, they're worried about Trump's lies, but they're the ones they're the ones is the media that turned it from fake news is the people what he said true fake, news fashion day in the media in general didn't like that so much they wanted to be the enemy of the people because they're the ones that change that they wanted to be the victim day wanted to be the victim. There's not one journalist doesn't. No, that's a lie. So they want to be the victim. And now, they're they're reap into their victims. Sorry. Yes. Fake news fake news. But they Stewart I think we always sense this counting. My glad Stewart said this because I don't think we fully realize the horror that these people have put themselves up themselves themselves themselves to listen to scare Mucci lecture them, and then get worked up right in front of your very eyes. It's an opener beautiful. Now, we have this guy that I don't remember his name, but he came on Jake tapper show. I believe in toppers. Yes. Yes. She has everything you said, this is a clip that's been going around and other example of a guy who's completely off the deep end trying to hold it together. He's an analyst I believe I don't have his name here. And he starts going on in in this, very long clip. It's to eighteen you can kill it. If you think it's boring, but he gives all the talking points that the Democrats are starting to us and one of them, which is in here. And I've heard it is done by one of the commentators on CNN is done by people clip for me. There's a bunch of people saying it Trump is worse than ISIS. Yes. We know that it's on the rotation. Making is as using ice ISIS tactics to radicalize the public general, you know, the the right wing machine is somehow radicalizing everybody into ISIS. To even use that as a comparison you have to be so hard up. And again, you talking about Trump talk about issues talk about the roads do something else. But no, no, this is the direction that Democrats going. We are saying just as we saw young displaced evil or sick or just playing losers be radicalized by evil actual term evil on the rotation list. I have a feeling I don't I don't think I've heard this a couple times. Was just look at it. We're seeing the same thing in the United States right now these two losers. These two sick people these two evil people three people being radicalized by this right wing propaganda industry. But who was the third person? Kentucky. And that's exactly what it is. This whole caravan in the last week of the election is a giant lie. This is Trump's Reichstag fire. The United States military. The most powerful armed force in the world would beat the -ployed at a brigade size. Unit level to the southern border. You know, I just wanna make one having grown up in the Netherlands. I'm very sensitive to the Nazi stuff because I grew up oversensitive over sensitized to that. Because I kids I played with the grandmother's home, they had numbers toot on their arm. So you know this. This was very was not brought up certainly not in this context. But it was kind of a general agreement. We're not going to blame the Jews for anything. But we're not going to blame the Germans or anyone else for like Nazi stuff. And you know, you can't have its in in Europe. At least at the time. You you couldn't do that. Look, we fought that war. It's done everyone step back from it, by the way in that article. That's how I got article about Trump, and the press it was an article that he has a a book on this. This goes back to nineteen ninety that he has a book of Hitler's speeches next to his bed. Now, they've been doing this. They've been doing this this thing a lottery. Yeah. And of course, later morphed into he has mine calm next to his bed. But I digress. This is really unconscionable. I think it's just as bad as calling Jews out as being responsible for anything. It's just it's horrible. And but yet it's passable to stop this caravan, which is a thousand miles away and made up of women and children insinuation filled with terrorists in middle. Easterners forty percent of the country has opted into an alternate reality. We have to wake up in this country and understand the danger that this presents to all of us. We can't put our heads in the sand. Kellyanne Conway despicably today goes on national television. She said well this shooter's motives were because there's an anti religious Noman the propaganda industry that she commands. With the vile president that she serves abetted by Mark Levin. And Rush Limbaugh and Breitbart and newsbusters edgy digital watch. And all the rest of them, man. Couldn't we get on that list. They mentioned almost everybody have blood on their hands. Oh for the incitements that they have made. And radicalized these crazy people it is delivered in intent. He scapegoats minority populations. He alleges conspiracies he creates a sense of shared in virtuous victimhood positions himself as the evanger, and there is no cost too high so long as it benefits his narcissism too long as it benefits him politically. Job. Well, signalled. Well. I certainly have something to say about that. Specifically, what the cause of these people doing these things is I have some thoughts. But I'd like to I thank you for your courage and say in the morning to you John C devora the C stands caravan of love in the morning to you, Mr Adam curry in the morning all ships at sea. We'll tell the grand Pete in the air. In the water nights in the morning to the troll room will always see the bat signal appear, and they even tweet troll room. And we appreciate your show and up here that is no agenda stream dot com. We love having you guys keeping us company makes this show that much more exciting. If you do any type of podcast, I would recommend that you try and stream it live while you recording is the feedback loop is incredibly important. It also makes you feel that you're live doing something you get some feedback. And it's like it very much. And so it's a pre she also I want to say in the morning to Mark g two in a row. We could not just could not live without using this piece of artwork that he created for us rep Isolde ten eighty didn't dare before. No marci. Thank you. Did in eighty. That's right. Yeah. So ten eighty tiny. What do you want Blake's it and the cover art was a Warhol esque depiction of Trump and got a lot of about this. Yeah. A lot of people like to lot of people like that. And we'd like to fantastic. And we really appreciate it, Mark. Thank you for your courage. He does some jobs karma. I think he wanted jobs karma make sure he gets that. And thanks to all of our artists who diligently are uploading art. It's it's tough sometimes to choose, but you can see all of the artwork at the agenda art generator dot com, and it's a part of our value network. Our value for value system, which I'll just read or quickly we long ago decided and along the way our conviction was confirmed that there's really no way to monetize the network the best way to I think it from your perspective John came from the book publishing model where people by the content. And then they it's it's supported by the audience. Now, we have a little different audience. They are our audience is producers actively involved with the program sending us there. There's the expertise their creative work and also financial and it's all based on. What is the show worth to you? If you're getting something out of it put something into it turns out when you put something into it, usually get something out of it. Now, I'm not claiming that a jingle with karma can give you a job, but participating the network has proven to work for a lot of people a lot of the time. And we also made the determination early on that because of the content that we wanted to do when we started developing the model of Newsday construction that we couldn't do it with advertising. No because and we've seen the example, we we harp on the examples that we see out there that were thrown off a network or the advertisers pulled out in the show folded or they got pressured. I ran a whole network funded by venture capital money. And I proved that it cannot be done. Right. Ranch. Moniker comes from by the way, that it was a was a mantra there over and brand safe advertising at me can't really produce. What you want to know cussin' is what really amounts. I got so many notes for different topic. We'll talk about and one of them was from naive London, girl, and she had a show about sex, and we had it on pod show UK, and I remember we had to sometimes obvious gated from our homepage because some investor would see just investors alone. And then you know, we're going on a pitch. We're gonna pitch them advertising. Take take London girl off the front put them somewhere else. So they don't see your big boob and stuff into album, art. Well, it said naive London girl on it. But you know, so yeah, it's you really will never reach your potential aim. You're just you continue to be a slave. This is why whenever someone says, hey, you wanna come do this do a quick interview on this network? I'm like, no, no. Because I know I'm going to get in there. I'm going to be really disappointed because it's going to be fifteen seconds. You're gonna ask me something completely stupid. You know, and it's boring, and then we'll have to we can't even have a discussion because it was time for an ad break. And then it's onto the next now, it's it's lame. I couldn't even do it anymore. If I if I wanted to. So we have this model and people. Appreciate it. I think especially this. We on this show ten eighty two. Sure. Woody. Appreciate it to the tune of thousand dollars. I'm afraid I've been overboard again where he writes and not cut recent shows. But when let you know that you're still appreciated. I recently asked to give a keynote at a conference in your show notes. We're invaluable good another valuable thing that by the way, the show notes or if you're a student. Yup. Fantastic. Oh to anyone valued any show notes dot com. Or if you want to search him being it dot IO. Were invaluable in helping me gathers supporting links, it was unpaid, but something I enjoyed a lot in found it rewarding. So in keeping with the value for value model figure one dollar for each of the one thousand or show or so people that were there is a worthy tribute to for your support. Hopefully, this is just noise in a su- NAMI of donations as you certainly deserve that for the work. You do we'll, sir. Woody. You are the crest of the NAMI, my friend. Thank you so much. That's very I'm gonna hit him with a karma. If you don't mind because. Whereas my karma bucket other. Got karma. They're in Matt in Melbourne. Australia three hundred thirty three dollars. Greetings from Barron. Mad in Melbourne help. Happy eleven th anniversary intentionally late to buffered the donation doldrums after big Dr spending a couple of days in dimension. Be recently, no agenda thinking helped me to understand copen even have some fun while I usually find their donation karma finds its way to me, regardless. I want to make sure that different focus is on someone else. Can you send the karma from this donation in the F can't variety to my brother in law Renzo who could really do with it? Thank you for your courage, Barron met in Melbourne. Yes. Of course, we can. You've got karma. Fred, Fred, Fred, Fred van Lewin. It's frit threat fun fund. Fred from laywomen threat. Von laya win. Yes. For something. Fred wanted to know if there were still going to be a meet up on the seven or the ninth of November in the Netherlands may not happen. I was hoping to to come over. But I think with before the end of the year, we will be able to do this. I think but we'll send out a bad signal when it's time. We need to put together mainly for the the Hollander 's. Yes, yes. And thank you very much. Fred preciado to sixty seven eighty nine. Thank you. Sure. Killys? To sixty two Noblesville, Indiana. Sure. Achilles. Your last year. I hung up the soccer cleats after rupturing both of my achilles. Wow. Dan three year period. I decided to replace soccer with running. Here's to sixty two in honor of me running my first marathon twenty six point two miles on Saturday. November third I did the math and have logged over four hundred miles in training over the last four months darn near all of those miles were spent listening to know agenda, if I can make a donation to you guys straight from my health savings account. I would because you guys in the Cairo Proctor, there's no way. I could have made it this far without you guys in the carapace. My son recently joined the cub scouts, and I have to say, I'm extremely impressed with the entire program if Elissa out there is an elementary age child. I encourage you to sign them up. It is fun. Getting to see kids do something besides playing fort night and watching YouTubers play four. How sick are we? I wanna give a shot to my brother. Eric says he is the only person in eleven years I have been able to hit in the mouth, but it took the twenty sixteen election to get him hooked. I also want to give a shot at to my wife who is woke. But Sally doesn't listen and often asked me with maximum disdain. Oh, what do John? And Adam think about you're not doing it. Right. No. No. No. Okay. What do John Adam think about it? Maybe maybe she's got the vocal fry in there. I gotta go face Hala rating. So this hope hope let me try it again. But you know, what is she's still she's still trying to connect with with our man with something. He's saying to who was the quarterback, you know. All right. What do John and Adam thank about that? She's more of a boring person mazing spouse that without her the marathon wouldn't be possible. So we're just joking around. Of course, she's great joking around if possible can I get a stay. Whoa. Karma for the run and night me baby song, by the way. She doesn't listen to the show. So she's not going to hear that night me baby song night baby with a talented produce that attended producer wrote based on my night in Email last year. Thanks for eleven great years. I'm so glad I thought John was funny on cranky geeks and look for more of his stuff back in two thousand. Being. Got karma. Sure. Killys Noblesville Indiana to sixty two, sir. Finch in Corvallis, Oregon, two three four five six and he said note. He's a Rhode longhand very very needs. He needs to take some pen penmanship, but I would say calligraphy was going to give you one one one one for your level, but says pay pal glitched three times while trying to complete the donation. I figured I'd up the amount to producer level. Always happy eleven diversity. Love you guys. Thanks for the labs and the sanity titled change, which we do have. Yes. Complex named to more. Simple name. Cheers to eleven more. We'll keep this short. And sweet since my hand is cramping. But he did it. I did know jingles note. Thank you, very much, your courage. Andrew Cantrell in lumber role New South Wales. Australia three two two seven three one. Great email. Oh, do you. Go ahead. John, and you can find it. Do you have it yet? Open did. Got twenty seconds. Again. Squirrel male. From bates. Second twenty eighteen in one from may twenty seven twenty eighteen there's nothing after that. Oh, damn well, I was too busy playing the music. I guess I should look we're looking to check it out. You can't play the music. I wish I'm not. I'm just not. I'm not woke enough. Percentage a note another note will read it when you when you can it through. No, I'm sorry. I see. I see. Shows up in a lot of donation notes for sure but not not a new one. Onward to Montana may in black lick Ohio second on my list to knob own as a great cities name. She wrote a note in. Glasses, and what am aside for the squirrel? Males thing. Jonah adam. And by the way, her donation was two to one one one one one two I'm a first time donors. So I believe a d do Shing is in order to. -deed do. I'm requesting some research karma for my smoking hot boyfriend. He is a longtime listener who donates Vienna on non monthly subscription. He turned me onto this show six months ago, when we first started dating needless to say, I've been hooked. Since. Like other note writers, you provide me with some awesome sanity keeping news analysis, which prevents me from burying my head in the sand to stay sane. It works. Anyway, is a hard working PHD chemistry candidate who is on his way to a national lab to finish his five and a half year venture. Maybe some karma from the good folks at the no agenda will keep everything will help everything fall into place. Also, congrat- Adams, Adam on the engagement. Thank you. I thought the proposal was on point. Thank you. It is if it's not pushing my requesting luck, please play the fomer clip nothing. So simple has given me as many laps as fomer boy losing it. Thank you and keep up the amazing work best Montana made. Karma. Dame Tanya tweeted she was getting on the on the train with op survey shin deck. Yeah. Yeah. You created a whole new fomer of out of her good Dame Dame fomer Tanya, and she tweeted godless. Taken on a life of its own. People are starting to appreciate the rail ways of the past and the current York's got lots of trains, you can take every which way. Yes. Commuters mostly, but they're still trains. Montana. John Clin, I think Clinton or Clinton K L E in Cincinnati, Ohio, two hundred bucks. Jingles Carman that wraps up our executive and associate executive producer segment for show ten eighty two. Yes. And thank you, all so much these credits as always are real. So if you're an executive producer or an associate executive producer, you can put that anywhere credits recognize and you are the executive producer of episode ten eighty two of the no agenda show best podcast in the universe. If anyone questions you let us know. We'll gladly about chore you and look forward to thinking more people fifty dollars and above in our second segment another show on the way on Sunday. Please remember us at dot org slash. Your sanity. So why don't you go out there? Propagate the formula this. This. People in the mall. I wanna talk for second about, you know, people going crazy, and they're on the social media and the killing people, and and this came to a head with the squirrel hill synagogue shooter. Then we discussed it. I think as we were talking about it on Sunday, gab dot gab dot IO, gab, gab the social network gab gab. Yeah. Gab was as they call it no platform d-, which includes taking them, you know, it's basically, it's the Kabbal of technology where you have your all your little bits and bobs, and you have your DNS, and you know, if you're DNS provider because so -rageous that they would provide DNS look up for you. Because you know, I don't know your societas with Jew haters, and whatever else a media throws on you and killers and crazy people and just nut jobs. So they'll they'll say, oh, we're not going to provide that for you. And then your where your hosting provider and then pay pal? And so these guys basically got wiped out. And you know, I I would say the no matter what you do if you have anything centralized and certainly if they're models not advertising. But if you models advertising is there's a lot of problems. But I I wanted to just hear NPR talking about gab after the synagogue attack is a site that proudly promotes free speech. It boasts that it lets anyone say anything, but it's been controversial. And I do wanna point out that in this interview, they did with the the founder of gab he posted the whole, you know, it's very typical. They call. This woman actually called him. He recorded the whole conversation was about fifteen minutes. And most of what he was saying is, you know, we adhere strictly to the first amendment. So if you incite hate where someone reports it we take you down, but we're not policing everything. And you know, it only comes to a reportable event than than we'll take that down. And we've worked tirelessly with law enforcement. We have a whole record of this guy. We. Gave everything none of that is in the interview. Of course, critics have called it a home for anti-semites and white nationalists. Robert Bowers was on attributed critics. That's pretty that's pretty nasty when I think about it. Critics have called it a home for white nationalist. What could you tell me? One critic maybe who calls it that. Or do you have someone there and white nationalists Robert Bowers was a user before allegedly going on a killing spree. He posted about the Hebrew immigrant aid society, a group, that's the ports refugees. He said the group quote likes to bring invaders that kill our people. I can't sit by and watch my people get slaughtered. Screw your optics. I'm going in Andrew Torga is the CEO of gab in an interview with NPR. He defended the platform. Direct threat in there. I don't what would you expect to do with that? You want us to just censor anybody. That says the phrase ongoing in proposing here. And here's the thing he answered too, bad speech or hate speech Harvey wanted to find that he's more speech, and you always will be when does online free speech become a threat. This isn't the first time the issue has come up his social media just last week. It came to light that the man accused of sending explosive devices to prominent Democrats in the media had a history of threatening tweets tour says gab follows strict rules, including no threats. He says he created gab because he saw no room for conservative points of view on social media. Take twitter. Thousands upon thousands of people calling for someone to killed on Trump saying they're going to kill Donald Trump expressing hate towards white people towards Christians towards minorities who may now support Donald Trump, they allow hate spewed at certain groups and certain people. So where is the line between free speech and inciting violence? I think the line is where free speech becomes a threat. Kelly. Mcbride is a senior vice president at the pointer institute for media studies. She says tore is prioritizing free speech above all other constitutional values, and that is not necessarily what our constitutional framers intended. Right. They didn't want the government per Bing freesheet, nor did they want citizens to be responsible with their speech. She says last year Google band, gaps apple rejected it and micro. Soft terminated its agreement with it last month. I didn't even know all that was going on just in the last twenty four hours at least two web hosting platforms have suspended gab CO. Andrew Torah is not backing down. We're not going anywhere toward says Demitra shooting. But he thinks it's now being targeted unfairly over the weekend. The social media site was filled with anger some of it directed at the Jewish community. Great. So gab is immediate because it's for free speech is immediately. All right. Do haters crazy crazy people and a lot of a lot of what is going on is blamed on President Trump, and you know, the rhetoric, but I think I've I'm developing theory. I want your feedback on John because I putting a lot of things together, and it really started a couple of days ago. There was this is a case. I don't know if it was a tweet or someone said, hey, check and see if your shadow band, and of course, we've talked about shadow banning like, well, let me see what this is. So I didn't have to enter my password or make it an app or anything just entered your Twitter username, and I couldn't understand the results that were coming back. It was like one of those you know, hosts that till the slash directory on someone's university account. You know, what I mean, it's basically dot H T M almost very like a Perl script running somewhere. And what was spinning back was not shed every it had a number of post like the last ten post not shadow ban. But then had stuff that would say six people saw it three people saw it, you know, then a hundred and thirty percents very odd in a dawned on me, finally figured out. What was happening? What this so called shadow banning is. This is really the algorithm that Twitter uses an I'm going to assert that it's the same Allthough that Facebook uses now there's no Albo on. For instance, read it in the algorithm on. Instagram, a little different when it comes to pure. I'm just gonna keep it Twitter for to make it easy. What the algorithm does is. If you post a tweet, let's say you get eight responses the so-called shadow banning is really what the replies are coming back, which if you look at your Twitter timeline, everything is kind of the same weight in design. You know tweets kind of big as your own original tweet, the algorithm is deciding which of the replies it's going to surface. So, you know, you'll see your original tweet, and is like a reply, and then the maybe seven more underneath there. And so this is where this shadow ban. Yeah. I'm trying to tweet to you. But you're not seeing people aren't seeing it. This is what the actual does. And it makes sense, you know, coming from the R s world I was a part of that very early on. And you know, and everyone had Google reader, and you know, you could with your blogs go back and forth, but people weren't freaking out on each other. I mean this goes back to use net. If I may be so bold as to raise that Usenet. There was a lot of vitriol a lot of hate. It was a lot of moderation a lot of and this is where Goodwin's law came from from from the old got Godwin's law the old bulletin boards. But it was not the same nuttiness that we're seeing on Twitter. And I I was reading an article about if you remember the that Microsoft they had that tie or take the AI chat bot that it was on on the web for twenty four hours. That was recently. Yeah. Yeah. Twenty four hours, and then they had to take down. Because all it was doing was tweeting like, you know, Hitler was right. You know, kill all the Jews just insane stuff. But. Here's here's what I think. I understand about what's going on. The in fact, here's what they say. Microsoft said the chat bought Tae is a machine learning project designed for human engagement as it learns some of its responses are inappropriate and end indicative of the types of interactions. Some people are having with it. We're making some adjustments to Tae and never came back because I believe that this magical algorithm that is used for engagement. So let's understand that Twitter. The algorithm has one job. And because we know the goal we can reverse engineer. What's going on the goal is to create inventory every single time? You click on something new page or something appears, but it really is an advertising inventory, you agree with that. I'm not gonna disagree with it. Well, so the algorithm doesn't think you're doing is. You're taking ownership of Twitter. And this is how you you reverse engineer something to make money. This is what you how you do it. Yeah. And this, of course, is the fallacy. This is the problem with Twitter is because of their model their model is advertising advertising needs inventory it needs. What they call engagement. So engagement is created by the algorithm. How does the algorithm do it? He doesn't know what you don't like it only knows what you have clicked on. And it takes that as a one. It's only really only a one zero maybe one day with the when they flip on your webcam. They can see what part of the page you're looking at. And you look at it. But he didn't click on it. But they really don't just like take all they have is what the users giving it. The Al goes entire job is to find something else that will make you click thinking you like it. But here's the thing. Just like. Say we as humans we get off. I mean, it's physiologically proven. I don't have to you know, dredge up. What social scientists are saying about all kinds of pulses, you get all kinds of dopamine hits. When you get something making something pissed off. Whether it's a person or whether it's a chat bot is what we love. We can't help ourselves. We're anonymous. It's kind of the ultimate game. You know, what's on the line? Well, your job your reputation, your friends, your family with whatever you say, it's kind of risky to go on there. But you can make just like what Scott moosh saying the whole idea is to piss the other side off. And so the the the algorithm doesn't understand that has no. When machine learning bullshit. He doesn't have a motion to doesn't understand what anger is it has no idea. All it's doing is. Just you want this. I'm giving you more of that giving you more of that. Now when this takes place to me, it should be labeled like alcohol because social networks are fine. And I don't know what gab was doing if they had an an algorithm or not doubtful. So, you know, like, no agenda social is just a straight up reverse chronological order feed. And there's no there's nothing there to try and give you stuff to make you post more because you're pissed off. So when this happens, and this is what professor Ted Kaczynski said, there's this oversocialization that takes place, and this is also part of the swearing. I'm noticing more people on the left saying fuck, and the reason why is the need to let something out when you say fuck, I can feel it. You're. Your your pupils dilated your pores open up. There's a whole physiological thing that happens, and it's a release of tension. That's why they're doing it. So so over socialized, you can't say anything, and then you just start yelling at each other. The Al keeps just keep spinning that up spinning it up in a certain point you pop off and you go nuts. And I guarantee you we're going to see a lot more of it. And I'm not against allegations. We can't stop what's going on. But it should at least be labeled as dangerous to your health. Because this this is what's creating the violence in real life is the algorithm on advertising base social networks because you don't hear someone from read it necessarily getting all nuts. You don't know Instagram also algorithm, but they have designed it differently. Where the context he's a picture and the comments sure that can be five thousand comments of people yelling. But it doesn't show up on your feed. It only shows a few hidden. It's much smaller. It's down below. That thing is an advertiser's dream. That's working very well. You don't hear people from Instagram going killing people? Now, it's Twitter or Facebook. And I'm convinced this algorithm is bullcrap is just a stupid. They don't they can't make it any better the machine doesn't know and has no incentive to give you calm. Calm and collected lovely stuff. No. That's not what we want. Okay. I think these guys are on drugs. Well, there's a reason why Twitter limits their characters to now two hundred and forty they don't wanna give anybody too much supply. Facebook you can run into those long posts used to read. And I wish somebody would provide us with some of these posts because you're not going to go back no-one. It reminds interrupt do you remember snow crash? Neil. Stevenson's book about the metaverse, and it was very analogous to today. When did it came out in the nineties, I think and the metaverse was this this network and instead of getting on a web browser you put on your VR goggles, and it was rendered. And she were in there. And the only people on the street were delivery for Domino's pizza because they won the franchise wars and electric hover boards. Vary analogous to the damn scooters. We got everywhere and everyone's in these networks in these rooms, but then you could you could get too much of it. And then you've got this drug actually called it was kind of a drug which was some code, and then people would actually freak out in real life in front of their screens. That would either freeze or die or go. Do something crazy, and it was called snow crash. And I think. This is what's happening in a way. People are it's in their heads. They've nowhere to go. They can't say anything they go. They did just like swearing some people are susceptible by the way throw in some outdraw. Let some other and set Amine or meth products. You got you got a great combination here. Thanks for that lightning analysis. So death is right around the corner for everybody all doomed everybody, exactly so. Hillary clinton. Everyone saw the video of her being racist. Do we have to talk about this? Yes. I do not going to say we shouldn't talk about it. But. I think you and I already agreement. Well, I'd like to short just like to play it in context everybody because that's exactly what I was talking about earlier. Yeah. Play it. All right. So this is this is what she actually said. And how the conversation. We have some background. Let's what I wanna do. You want me to make a short rushing setup setup setup. Let me set it up Hillary Clinton said to somebody casually. Oh, All Blacks, look alike. So the right wing went crazy, and everybody's pointing a finger at hers being a racist hypocrite, also it was it was it was clipped out of context clip. But so we'll play the whole thing. And then we'll mention that. Jeez. You know, you're going to have one guy on one side. That's just joking clowning around constantly saying stuff like this. Why don't they give Hillary the same break? She does have a sense of humor. And this. These are two women who know each other very, well, they in fact, just a was it here was on just a quickie. Here. It is. This is just the very beginning before the war started just to give to set the scene as to what this crowd is about. And who was who was hooting and hollering the audience Carris wisher from Rico decode, I take it seriously. And it's going to take a while to work through our families, and our workplaces our society, it's hard. I have two sons and they tried to drive out the sidewalk the other day say on the sidewalk and you find yourself on the edge, right, right? Shove crap. As you know, my theory that all men should be raised by lesbian. So then moved back to the general population. Never really good at sports. Then. Okay. Are the Democrats could? So she hates her own boys. Because they've Penas said it shut them ally. Teach these kids these horrible little boys. Well, I mean, this to me was actually more subtly offensive. So I grew what a Hillary said, we're let's care. But here's to people who know each other. They're joking. Hillary is clearly making a joke about Donald Trump who would be racist. And these two they've they've meet they talk they've talked before. So when you hear it all in context, you understand that it's a joke. But she does say something weird which was what I was gonna say. Do you think they kiss? I. Look, she as far as I'm concerned, she had a back brace so into that jacket or hers. I don't know what's going on with her. Then she not getting the ten thousand dollar makeover at peers and France anymore. But so, but it's interesting what she said as a kicker to this whole joke, and I don't want to go around insulting people. I don't want to paint with a broad brush, every immigrant is this every African American is that every other person different religious beliefs or whatever that is that's Charlton Cory booker's, and you didn't come out of him and your feel I adore. What do you think about him saying kicked on the shins essentially start to get to that kind of political that was there a colder air? Sorry. The I know they all look alike. No, they don't. Oh. Now hillary. I was. I was paid by Mark Zuckerberg? Okay. What I was paid. By Mark Zuckerberg to say that. What does what does that mean? I'm wondering myself is that a is that a tip, but I never played it that far where that line came in is that a Jew versus cheval thing. Because I to me I could be like an anti-semitic that's reeks of a subtext that. Yes. Just gross. Well, lesbian subtext. You got the man-hating subtexts. You got the blacks are subtext. You got the Jewish subtexts would Zucker. Berg the social media subtext. You got these two sub? I mean, the whole thing stinks paid by Mark Zuckerberg today. Okay. Can I just say no what I what I say. You've been reading Trump's tweets beautifully. Thank you. That's the big joke. Trump apparently the doesn't see the difference between one Brown guy in the other Brown guy. Oh, yeah. Sure. That's that is the before. Now does Berg comet is an because it the way she said it to me was in was an inside joke to I guess group of people that we were not part of. Nope. Say the least. But we're not part of whatever group that was that will. Can deconstruct dad joke. We'd be interested. Sadly, that's I immediately thought what is this a Juve versus blacks thing which is another stereotypical goal comparison. So I do think it's important to listen to you know, the truth always wants to come out, again just a little clip of her maybe running is much longer. And she really unveils her entire strategy in when she's going to decide which goes beyond. What was clipped? If you find the too boring. We'll get rid of it. But I thought it was like, wow, see she really is just telling everyone what she's going to do under the guise of will maybe not. But it was so obvious that twenty twenty do you want to run again? No, right. No. It was a pause. Well, I'd like to be president. I think hopefully when we have a democrat in Oval Office in January of twenty twenty one she's already thinking about herself there's going to be so much work to be done. I mean, we have confused everybody in the world including ourselves, and we have confused our friends, and our enemies, they have no idea what the United States stands for what we're likely to do what we think is important. So the work would be work that I feel by the way when she I think she's also just like almost I think she feels I shouldn't have to run. I should just become the president because I've been through so much. That's kind of what she said. I want to be president just the running part of can we just annoyed me, very well prepared. Don't you think that something in their toll agreement on that that these is now I'm going to back it up because now now she's switches to the from the someone to her including ourselves, and we have confused our, friends and our? Amies? They have no idea what the United States stands for what we're likely to do what we think is important. So the work would be work that I feel very well prepared for having been to the Senate for eight years having been a diplomat in the State Department, and it's just going to be a lot of heavy lifting doing any of that lifting. Do you feel oh I have no idea care, but I'm going to I'm not going to even think about until we get through this November six election about what's going to happen after that. But listen to what she's saying, I'm not even going to think about it. So she's already she already said this got to do a lot of work, but I'm not gonna think. And before she ran in twenty sixteen. If you remember she did the same kind of song and dance long enough. They collect a lot of money that she didn't have to use for the campaign, which is a part of this thirteen city tour they'll be doing right after the midterms. There's money involved, of course, money involved. So I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure we have a democrat in the White House. Come january. So just to reiterate said I've been a wait and see what happens in the mid term. And then in other words, if she's going to run, but I'm going to make sure that there's a democrat in the White House. Talk about your role in a second. But who among them are you interested in? Well, I I know everyone who's running and or thinking of running or possibly running. But you know, there's there's always that period between hate that sounds like a really good idea. And then trying to actually think through see if it is the right thing for you to do see if you can raise the money all discouraging everyone, and I'm going to roll back a little bit. What she's saying here is if? Really, no matter. What happens? But let's say the Democrats don't take the the house, then it's going to be so hard. It's going to be it's going to be really rough. You gotta think about your family. I don't know if you can do this. It's only really one person who could do this has skin running or possibly running. But there's there's always that period between hate that sounds like a really good idea. And then trying to actually think through see if it is the right thing for you to do see if you can raise the money all of the questions that go into it. So I'm not gonna handicap the race before anybody actually gets into it. I think they're I think we'd have an she literally said, I'm not going to handicap the race before anybody gets into it. So I'm not gonna let some schmucks come up first. So I can tell you're never gonna make because I know how to do it. I know where the money is excellent candidates who would be really formidable. On the campaign trail. Let's wait and see who it is. I mean, we may have as many as fifteen twenty candidates, and that's a big group to try to sort itself out. And I'm just going to wait. And and you know, watching how anyone. Interesting. What she say here. It's filled with gems like this on twenty candidates, and that's a big group to try to sort itself out, and I'm just going to wait. And and you know, watching how anyone Europe particularly in. No, I'm you know, they're they're they're number of their number of excellent potential candidates. There's no excellent potential candidates. This first of all if we don't win under him naming names and see what your show. Oh, okay. If you want to but. But if we don't win on November six, honestly, I know this sounds far fetched, but. This administration if they continue to control all branches of government, and they have been stocking the courts with ideologues. You will you will find that. It will be much more difficult to run. She's literally telling people step out of the way, I can do it and people who have never had to face the fire once they get out there. And they start being the target of the vitriol and hatred that comes against anybody criticizes Trump that's going to cause a number of people to do a bit of soul-searching. So I think we've got to give everybody who is. She didn't literally say I'm sorry about it. Or even people who wake up on November, seventh kickers come. Here's the kicker lost thirty seconds. And then you'll like come on you doing anybody who criticizes Trump that's going to cause a number of people to do a bit of soul-searching. So I think we've got to give everybody who is thinking about it or even people who wake up. November seventh and start thinking about it got to give them the space to make what is really serious calculation depending upon political individually, and then I want to get to Saudi. So she pretty much just said, I know everyone really, well, you know, they're all going to have to think about a real hard, especially if we don't she knows? I think she sees the writing on the walls a chance that they will not take the house. So, but you know, that doesn't happen. If it does have great. But if it doesn't happen, you think real hard you really want to do that. And now care she was going to mention some names more. Elizabeth Elizabeth a great. Warn what? Listen. Yeah. She's great. Yeah. She's fabulous. She's only thinking about herself, and she is running. Of course, she is. But no one picks up on the subtleties. It's never analyzed. True. I don't take it needs to be announcing any was analyzing because everyone no she's running the analyze. That's true. That's true. You know, it's almost like beating a dead horse. It's like, oh, she's running. Wow. To stop the presses. She was a little too happy about the AI conversation that she had with CARA. How would you encourage the government to handle AI just a few more off you have to go. Talk about this for a long time. The crowd. I think they don't mind hearing. I think. I mean, one of the things I wanted to do if I had been president was too. Delve deeply into what we have to do about a. I mean, if you follow the debate between people who are quite knowledgeable about technology. It's like split right down the middle. There are those who think it's when you think of what what kind of things do you think about locations because she's not she's not you'll see should not talking about is a crock the demise of the human race. And those who think it's going to be the greatest breakthrough for the human race not really talking to figure out which is which and are there are there plans we should make that would try to rein in some of the. Loosed on the world. Now say on loosed she said unless he meant unleashed. I don't know what she meant. Which and are there other plans, we should make that would try to reign in some of the before it is on loosed on the world. Other countries are moving very fast ahead China being video. Well, okay, I'll kill it. But let me tell you the glee that she speaks about the Chinese social network tracking and penalty and reward system. She speaks about it with great glee. Yes. She probably would like really wants it a lot of people do and she she reference. Did you see this clip of the Chinese bullet train, which I I'm not sure if it's a hoax or not well, you don't know because we don't speak Chinese. Right. Right. Well, it's twenty seconds. So this is on the bullet train apparently from Beijing Shanghai. And this comes on the I believe it's a hoax, by the way. It's a hoax to this comes on the public address system. You can't hear it. I can barely hear it. I I don't believe. That's I don't believe a word of it. Yeah. So it says if you if you if you are caught without a ticket, it'll go on your social score that can give you penalties. You may not be allowed to travel on the train, and I all in English. Yeah. Yeah. But she refers to this clip interestingly. Yeah, she I'm sure she suckered by more than a few of these things. All right. Couple of things. I do have a a deconstructed clip, which I just thought this is a. I do a little change of pace clip. First of all. I have a I show of aired Awan pronouncing kashogi. Okay. As as it turns out. I have another pronunciation guide for us. Well, this is Al Sharpton version. Shoe? And you have an ice. Oh, who's pronouncing it aired a one aired Awan? Well, interesting because shift Clary sent his business partners Arabic. And here's how he pronounced the say. Say jeez. So it's pretty close to air to one's version. Sounds pretty similar. Yeah. Cashew t but he's cheese. Not that far off actually. On the damn wait a minute Alice doing just like air on on uh. Oh. Jamal castrucci pretty close who knew her. We're mocking. No more mocking. Shit show. Nice. So I'm watching this. This was about a month ago or not quite but maybe three weeks ago in Alex Jones was on the Joe Rogan show a while ago. Wasn't it was it was. Was months ago. Well, okay was months, but it was it was within recent memory. And I don't think anybody picked up on this this particular little sub segment here, which is what he plays Alex Jones on the Joe Rogan show the alien who's got. Let me give you my best deep research approximation how you ready. Big Joe there in this room right now for real. Yeah. You're not of this world broke me. Wow. I didn't know. Well, here's what the elite belief and let me very clear somebody'll too. So I only go with what I can prove. Thank you. And people can't even handle that. I don't know. I do know is that after he told him that he had Grogan I think jokingly came down to the microphone and made some sort of weird noise. Like, the lizard would is that in the beginning of this. It's it's no it's when he says he says he says, oh, no. He says it and he didn't. Oh, I didn't know. And then he makes it sound. I don't know if you can catch it. Let me let me give you my best deep research approximation how you ready. I'm a big until Joe there in this room right now for real. Yeah. You're not of this world broke me. Oh, wow. I didn't know. Well, here's what the elite belief and let me very clear somebody'll do. Lizard. Yes. Yes. Uncontrolled lizard sound. Let's hear it again. Very clearly. Oh. Well, there goes all invites for the Joe Rogan show. Well done. Oh. Now, I do have a just for the show possibility. Yes, that's. Oh, okay. I there are. No, I so. So I think you win it. Okay. Good. That's very good. Very good. Anyway, I wanna get back to this one thing I did destroy. This is starting to get really pathetic on democracy now. And so they running these strange stories, and there's one the federalist society had Jeff Sessions in a boss at a Boston meeting and the federal society so one who's pretty much calling the shots on who Trump pixes just like some kind of think tank. What do they do a conservative think tank and club drinking club? And so he's giving a speech in to people. Call him out at both black ministers from the area, and they played a funny way. But there's a little piece of propaganda found Kisa Louis you made that alien sound the Joe Rogan makes. No. But he did it exhaling. Doing that. Cook scared for second. Yeah. Alien, bro. I can't even do that sound. This is but listen to this for this sessions heckled in Boston in Boston, Massachusetts, attorney general Jeff Sessions was interrupted by two religious leaders at a federal society that Monday where sessions with speaking about religious freedom United Methodist pastor will green stood up and recited biblical verse before peeling two sessions directly. Brother as Bello? All on you. Those. Authors feed your price. Jeff Sessions responded to the pastor by saying thank you for those remarks and attack a second pastor Daryll. Hamilton of the First Baptist Church in Boston, then stood up to speak. But was booed by other attendees and quickly removed by security. No. I couldn't quite hear what the pastor was saying. Oh, he's just telling me as a jerk. Oh, okay. All right. The thing here is that the first the First Baptist Church of Jamaica plains is that church that this second guy came from. But she didn't want to say the First Baptist Church of Jamaica planes. I believe because it doesn't have the hold the authority of the First Baptist Church in Boston. Which is what she said. And it's it's dishonest surprise surprise. What you watch that anymore because it's like, I can get some of these great bits because she fluctuates from, you know, kind of it's really dishonest show, I for journalistic endeavor. It's it's quite remarkable. So I can't I can't kiss. I understand. I totally understand. Meanwhile, the also reported and smeared Steve king. On democracy now with a two parter here king is the congressman's is Senator from or. New York thought wasn't thinking to Peter King. All right. Okay. Wrong. King different congress member. Steve stivers blasted Iowa. Congressman Steve king Twitter. Tuesday, saying Steve king's recent comments, actions and re tweets are completely inappropriate. We must stand up against white supremacy and hate in all forms, and I strongly condemn this behaviour. The tweet came is corporate supporters of Steve king including land lakes and Purina pet care as well as Intel said, they would no longer fun kings campaigns, congressman king recently endorsed, far, right? Canadian faith. Gold leaf for Toronto mayor and has amplified racist and anti-immigrant posts on social media, including publishing racist tweet and support a far right Dutch politician Geert elders last year last week. It was reported king met with a Neo Nazi Austrian group during an August trip. That was funded by holocaust memorial, nonprofit, king later told the Washington. Post if they were in America pushing the platform they push they would be Republicans. It was it was, you know, everybody in the dossier is a Nazi I guess. Well, no. Kinda smeared him there. But it gets a little better on the second clip until last year. Congressman king displayed a confederate battle flag on his desk. In the Capitol Hill office king is up for re election as polling just one point two head of his democratic challenger JD Scholten, and it district that Trump won in two thousand sixteen by twenty seven percent margin. Okay. It was. It wasn't a federal battle flag. It was one of those state flags. It's like he visits the state. He gets a flag got a little collection of little flags from different states. Really? Well, this whole if I remember the kid, I grew up with haunts. Yeah, we were like nine, and I you know, we we in contact for years and years and years, but I hadn't seen him in the in the flesh. And when Tina I were in Amsterdam year or two years ago he came living in Spain. He came up, and he says, well, Adam your Republican like what are you talking about? I'm on Republican while you are say about here how you speak. So you probably racist. Now, he's my friend. So we can say that he's gay which made even funnier. And this mean of in America, Republicans are racist is very deep-rooted. It's it's it's it's been so hammered into everybody's I don't want to spend too much time on this. But we had a conversation on the last show. And I said I'd like to know from the black producers mainly and we have a few. Luckily. If you were taught this magical, switch back in the sixties between the Republican and democrat party. I've tallied up. I'd probably got like fifty responses. Really the black responses. We're maybe only five there were some Mexican in there and I'd say ninety five percent. Although no one can remember it being in their history books. Can remember coming away from school believing that there had been so switch when the Democrats and Republicans switched and the racist? Sneakily went to the Republican party. Which is interesting because you know, there's well there's really this to two sides. But some people say, I think it might have been the politicians switched or maybe the voter switch, but in general most people say, yeah, I think that's how I was taught. It did you see any of this anyone send you any notes copying notes? Not documented there's. These are just their own experiences. So it's it's just completely. You're right. It's undocumented. But it's important for the reason that you have this block. That's why Candice Owens is being pushed so hard by the Trump administration and cognac anything they can do to break the concept for black America that they can only be saved by the democrat party is definitely culturally ingrained, and so removing just five percent of that ten percent would probably really ruin the whole voting everything for the democrat party and dawn unless they run a black person the blacks do. Yup. Dave vote as a race. Yes. And and then all of a sudden, I understood this. The phrases so tired comprehensive immigration reform. How long have we heard that a decade twenty years? We've heard this forever. And suddenly I realize what it's about. And that's from one of our producers who's Mexican said, I believe that the Republicans were racist. When I came here with my parents, I have learned it's different. My parents definitely still believe Republicans are racist. And if you have a population in in the United States of ten fifteen twenty somewhere conservative estimates ten on the other side, twenty two million illegal aliens. The concept is comprehensive immigration reform can only happen. That's why there's no wall. You can only get that. If you make those people legal because you do that in one fell swoop you have twenty million democrat voters. That's why you will never be any immigration reform because that is that is purely has been discussed dead. Everyone knows this. Well, maybe I'm just slow. I don't think so I think you know, this too. I don't know. No. I didn't know I didn't realize that. It's not about new people coming in. I was a little confused. They just want voters to come come across the board or but no one ever retorts about one one law could, you know, pretty much put the Republicans out of business forever. That's not really discussed that way. But. Republicans can get those younger Latino voters vote Republican Floridians vote Republican. But of course, there's also a percentage of that moved into Arizona and California. They're gonna vote democrat. Ability goods, I do have a professor of political science from Vanderbilt University who in one fell swoop can explain the three myths of the switch if you're interested. I know what annoys you. But maybe we can just round off the topic. We'll never have to revisit it. We'll be revisiting it for a while. Because people keep writing in once upon. Okay. My concern is what how long is this clip. It's three minutes. Well, I it's just worth listening to Krista just well. I mean is different than what the knee the sues. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Because she really explains the whole breadth and more what you were saying than what I was saying actually once upon a time every student of history, and that meant pretty much everyone with a high school education new this the Democratic Party was the party of slavery and Jim crow, and they Republican party the party of a Mansa patient and racial integration. Democrats the confederacy and Republicans where the union Jim crow Democrats dominant in the south and socially, tolerant Republicans were dominant in the north. But then in the nineteen sixties and seventies. Everything supposedly flip suddenly Republicans became the racist. And the Democrats became the champions of civil rights fabricated by left-leaning academic Leeson journalists the story went like this Republicans couldn't win a national election by pill into the better nature of the country. They can only win by pilling to the worst attributed to Richard Nixon the media's all purpose, bad guy. This came to be known as the southern strategy. It was very simple when elections by winning the sides and to win the side appeal to racist. So Republicans the party of Lincoln or to now be labeled the potty of rednecks. But this story at the two parties. Switching dentists is a myth. In fact, it's three mass wrapped into one false narrative. Let's take a break. Look at each myth. Intern myth number one in order to be competitive in the south with public and started to pander to white races in the nineteen sixties fact Republicans actually became competitive in the south as early as nineteen twenty eight when Republican Herbert Hoover one of a forty seven percent of the south's popular vote against. Crat also Smith in nineteen fifty two Republican president Dwight Eisenhower won the southern states of Tennessee, Florida and Virginia and in nineteen fifty six he picked up Louisiana Kentucky and West Virginia to and that was after he supported supreme court decision in Brown versus board of education that desegregated public schools, and after he sent the hundred and first airborne too Little Rock central high school to enforce integration. Myth number two southern Democrats angry with the Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty four switch parties fact of the twenty one democratic senators who oppose the Civil Rights Act, just one became a Republican the other twenty continued to be elected as Democrats or were replaced by other Democrats on average those twenty seats didn't go Republican. For another two and a half decades myth number three since the implementation of the southern strategy. They Republicans have dominated the south fact, which it makes them the main was often credited with creating the southern strategy lost the deep south in nineteen sixty eight in contrast, the mcrib Jamie card nearly swept the region in nineteen seventy six twelve years after the Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty four and in nineteen ninety two over twenty eight years later Democrat Bill Clinton won Georgia, Louisiana, Arkansas, Tennessee, Kentucky and West Virginia. But truth is Republicans didn't hold on majority of southern congressional seats unto nineteen ninety four thirty years after the Civil Rights Act as Kevin Williamson of national review writes, if southern rednecks ditch the Democrats because of a civil rights law pay in. Nineteen sixty four. It is strange that they waited until the late nineteen eighty s and early nineteen nineties to do. So they say things move slower in the south, but not that slow. So I think that's a pretty good explanation. Well, I'm not gonna complain about the clip. Yeah. I think it was pretty good. It was interesting bringing a few things when she does talk about the states voted for the Republicans during that era before they civil rights. Past the always failed to mention Georgia in Alabama, which to states that were strong democrat states. Georgia's sense become a strong Republican state, and they keep talking about it flipping back to back to blue. But it's red and blue, and I'm I think the whole thing should surround studying what happened in Georgia, Georgia Georgia would be the. The understanding the whole thing because why are they Republicans? According to hurt these remind or yours, they no reason for it. Based on the thesis now. She's she her premise at the beginning is the thing that we should take note of which was as a bunch of leftist. I came up with this. I and there is a strategy underway. But it's not a Republican strategy. Right. It's strategy of to make them. Look like rednecks graying the black community into being Democrats. Yeah. Including the blacks nothing, by the way, people voted for Obama. All the white said voted for Obama full. And I'm saying this because I'm white. Is that it was expected? That Obama would do something for the black community. He did what on can't believe you don't remember, you got credited widely for this. Know people just get by. Oh here. It is. Remember Obama phone a phone? Yeah. He did a lot. That was great. You walked right in. Yeah. He did. Right. In the face. This is where on this sort of this sort of discussion. I'm always looking out for these words that keep cropping up and first of all I got Jake tapper. There's a black Representative digit in moaning about something on the Jake tapper show, and I want you to pay careful attention to this to the usage of of a specific word, which I think is going to be popular. But explain why you think it's different because there are a lot of I really mean there's a lot of good faith, people conservatives who think this is a double standard is calling for political revolution of ideas. He never incited violence. He has never talked about beating up protesters. He never called anyone the enemy. He has said the Wall Street should be held accountable, and they should go to jail for bringing America to the brink of collapse. But he's never incited violence. He's never uttered. Anyone? Doing that. And other than the Senate spoke up against sense. I think that's why this is different. Donald Trump had ample opportunity to check his coalition. Wow. That was a double though, she did a great job. I use the other as a verb. And then she said, I like others, she positioned herself as an other. Yes, she did. And then she used the term check his Coa check his coalition, which is a leftist concept. What does it mean check his coalition means you take control of these people? So watch the way the Democrats do organizing you see them, you know, there's a one boss and a bunch of people that do whatever they're told. And that's kind of what Trump's expected to do the same thing on the other side. I agree with you wholeheartedly on this other because let me tell you where this came up, and I and someone's gonna have to help me find a copy, I was just scanning through the channels. The other day. And I pop happened to bump up to supergirl, which I played a clip of supergirl when the president's not an eight year old remember that? And I thought it was a cartoon turns out it's live actions actually acted and it's on the CW and on the episode. I saw which I need to clip there's some aliens who've come in, and they are they're they're called the others. There's other ring the other and it was completely Trump and immigrants. Get the whole the whole episode was about it. And it was the other that others being other the whole thing. It's yes here. Here. It is on the view. Oh my goodness. You've you've caught onto Punti isn't a place that it's never been before. Because the tone is coming from the top all of a sudden, it's okay to say, you know, I would punch out that reporter all of a sudden, it's it's okay to otherwise people. People on both sides. I mean, we've come to a point where we need to have all kinds of versions of this. Have other is Asian. Otherwise, otherwise. Yes. Oh my goodness. This is not shirt idea. I've been other just just other just as other. Yeah. Well, that would work too. That is that's so now we have to pay attention to this. This other is and this is part of density politics. It's like, a classic example of identity politics. You other people in the enemy, but it's it's better than that. Because now, you don't know you don't have to say you you're as group because you're a different color or religion or gender. You just other. So everybody can wear that everybody can wear that are there because I've torrential other is man don't otherwise me, bro. Yeah. You are your other good going to other you good. So dumb that phrases. Idiotic. It's stupid, and it makes us sound dumb. Well, the on the lookout for producers, we need more uttering. Doda? Imagine all the people. All right. We do have some people for show ten eighty two beginning with, sir. Robert of this severe lead in Howlett Holland. He's in Holland. Oh, no. He's gonna make Baronet soon. He says Angela Mackey Rutledge parts known in the in the Netherlands where she doesn't say one Twenty-one Levin, then we have a blank line. Yes. I see that too. It's a comma. Comma, come about a the posture Affi is the name of this person from from from Deutschland. Late to the party donation. He or she writes greetings from Vesta Vold. Okay. Well, whoever from Vesta vol gave us. Here's a Hof. Thank you Curtis maces, Spokane valley Washington hundred eleven dollars says so this is the two leftovers from the well wishers Preston Taylor. One hundred dollars thirty one cents. Nash Persad in port Saint Lucie. Florida ninety nine ninety nine hun. Kaisers? In Leiden in Leiden, and he wants to thanks bus IX calling him out on Thursday show. Hey, brunette been listening ever since never donated d do. Do. Brutish used to send a lot of art any give up. Well, it's picking taxing. Then it's taxing it is a lot of work war debt. Oh. Detweiler in Grosse Pointe. Michigan eight oh eight. Say anything interesting. He does I guess I'm gonna read. So I got a couple of notes on this. I just love. Well, that's too long. I don't wanna play that you can stop this. But then he has long notes on mustard, ladies and gentlemen. Here's the other man. Understand your paying about the lack of real design. Mustard United States have a remedy Edmund fell out which I've had their their musters. I haven't ordered it directly from Amazon prime is the real deal, and I put it on everything. Okay. I got another note for someone saying that the trader Joe and expressed my complaint where it was on a show or two ago. Yes. The all John mustard in America is rancid. No. It's not rancid. Flat flat. It loses. His and when you go to France and have these yawn or you bring a bottle over. It's good for a couple of weeks. And then it starts going fight even should be refrigerated and the short length of time before it goes flat. Because mustard is almost like what Sabi when it's fresh. And he goes right through the nose. It's dynamite stuff. And it's all flat. There's nothing. It's like eaten. Nuts is getting great Poupon American style is opposed to the front French one ship into Canada. So- I bitch about this. So he's got just one solution, which I'll check out because I know this brand I've had it before. But I've never had this way. Maybe it's somebody else's that trader Joe's branded Dijon trader Joe's, as you know, is a German grocery store chain. All wasn't always. Yes. Yes. So yeah. But it's it's a split off the two brothers. They had an argument one wanted to sell cigarettes the other one didn't. So they split the company. And so then they bought trader Joe's years and years ago, and it became this, Germany company. So it's got a lot of characteristics. So it's possible that the Dijon I haven't done it yet. But I'm gonna go to go there and buy some. So I I'll catch up to this. Because everyone's on pins and needles. Yes. We can't wait. Can you taste that mustard? So, you know, the smothers brothers the others brothers. That's Laney in Toronto Ontario, sixty nine sixty nine. Do work movie reviews, please they are spot on. Chris James in Sturgis Michigan six zero six small boob. Jeffrey Sewell in San Jose, California. Did I see you at the meet up by six seven eight Robert Bruckner fifty five fifty five parts known in the following people are fifty dollar donors name and location. If if available William Cameron in Charlotte, North Carolina Tyler Shimpei in Bothell, Washington, Jeremy Cartwright in Rockford, Illinois and short list Watson in Raleigh, North Carolina. That concludes our group of producers for show ten eighty two thank each and every one of them and the ones who gave lesser amounts for helping the list was only seventy four K as in kilobytes. You like when you see that file come in you like. Your heart sinks like. Only fifty as seventy seventy kilobytes. Okay. But we are so grateful for the producers who are producing the show in the way. The producers do really thank you very much. We learned so much from you. I mean where else can you have a a I mean does NPR when they do their donor drive to they talk about Dijon mustard. No. Do they they don't they give away tote bags? We give you something worthwhile. But more importantly, this is what makes the network all the people who keep saying you keep me sane or because we're making jokes or whatever it is. Whatever sauce we have it seems to work. I'm very proud of it. You should be to all EU producers also those who donated under fifty dollars many for reasons of anonymity and others on our subscriptions, please take a look at those. And you can do that. Dot org slash a multiple karma. Jobs jobs and job. That's for. You've got karma. Donations also short on the birthday list. But we do have to adjacent Zeisler. Happy birthday to his brother. Joe's Isler turned thirty eight tomorrow. And Carolyn Blaney says happy birthday to John Fletcher. Wait a minute flights is the Flint just birthday thirty-five today. And it's third assert Chris the drunk and minstrels has happy birthday to a son Felix who turned twenty nine. That's funny who turned nine years old on the twenty ninth of October. We say happy birthday all of these people from the best podcast in the universe. We have we have a nineteen. We have a nineteen. That's why I got my sword. Here sore. Careful don't put an eye out without thing. Finch nasty stuff on. I'm sorry Jose Cabrera that's who we have. We're a minute Jose Cuervo come on up to the podium here at the roundtable. The no agenda knights Dame's are sacred ceremony where thanks to your contributions of one thousand dollars Maureen aggregate to the no agenda show. We probably pronounced the the sir Cup of Meyer. Mess. Seri kit town. Flo. Rent boys? Chardonnay steel reserves black miles. We got pinball empower curve's breast milk and pablum ginger ale. Gerbils suburban mutton and meet let me take that name again circa brawl of massery town, am I saying that correctly correctly. Town. There's a K in there as well. He'll he'll let us know if that is incorrect will gladly correct. The record. Today's surfing's NASA who wanted to shorten his title to surf inch than we're perfectly fine with that. I'm sure that will be reflected in all of our peerage maps, you can find it at I am slash periods. And thank you against Finch, nasty, Cabral and our birthday lists. And thank you for supporting the no agenda show best podcast in the universe. Another one for you on Sunday twice a week. Now. Twice a week. I heard that see I've got do have something left here other. What did I have? Can keep I can the navy clip which I desperately wanna talk about or at least play as there's some contrive going on. And this is the the about the the the census Canadian census, and they need to have date on everybody. We have it here in the United States as well. And there's always is always questions about what form what's on the form on the long form. Do you have to say rut race? You are what are the races that should be there? It's always a big is always something always something. Well, the cannon avian just taking it one step further stat can which is Canada's statistical organisation of the government, I believe it's government organization to Canada could be wrong about that too. They decided there's a better way to get some real census on our northern neighbors. Insuring that the personal data of Canadians are protected statistics. Canada will use the anonymous data for statistical purposes only, no personal information will be made public. I understand Justice. Canada is actively engaged with the privacy Commissioner's office on this project and is working with them to ensure Canadians thanking you for mation remains protected and private I'm just going to give a little context what they are going to do is taking a sample of five hundred thousand Canadians, and they are telling the banks want all their information all their purchase information. It will be anonymous, of course, and you can imagine there's some issue with this. Quality and timely. Data are critical to ensuring the government programs relevant and defective. For Canadians on opposition house leader. Mr Speaker, the liberal government plans to access the personal financial formation of Canadians without their knowledge or consent, personal information like Bill payments online purchases credit card transactions cats cash withdrawals and deposits even transfers between family members. And the list goes on will the prime minister do the right thing. And immediately assure Canadians that this intrusion into their lives will be stopped. Etienne greatly expect that government agencies and individuals and groups like Statistics Canada work with the privacy Commissioner to ensure that their private lives are protective, Mr Speaker need. I remind you all Canadians that it was the conservative government that chose to stop the long form census to cancel. On. Is the way of protecting people's information? What that led to was more policy based on ideology, less policy based on evidence. Like, we are doing. Now, they're attacks on data and information continue. We'll do whatever we want. Pretty much. That's what could possibly go wrong with that. We needed cover more Canadian stuff in get notes from from new Newark, Canadian listeners, really loved the show. The talk about Canada, you're pretty ill informed. Like, yes. Absolutely. Were ill informed. We need as much help as we can get. Yep. Well, Canada stuff, dad ill informed. But I look I can't. Kid running the country. We know that much can't refute. Can't refute. Some kids running the country. Oh, Anne Hathaway got an award at the Human Rights Council. For what? Well, you have to know what the Human Rights Council is they really only do one thing and that is support LGBTQ issues. That's that's that's all that they do. And they do about forty five million dollars a year this and they're lobbying the five oh one C four, and so they gave her an award. And so the whole pretty sure was in California the whole room. Anne hathaway. She's massively wealthy tur- career is unreal. If she's from a kid she's done. She's been so many huge hit movies. But she's acting all the time. She this this thing on this was just an act, and I just had to clips because it was like, wow, kind of a head shaker of what she's saying. So she's she's virtue signaling. I despise. I know she's not gay or transgender or anything. She does talk about that. But the the whole audience is L, well, officially LGBT Q A P K people and she won the award. She's very happy. And she wants say hi to everybody. First of all. We'll learn something started ladies ladies. Ken to. Gentle then. I've never heard gentle them. I think it's on the list. Selves. They it's the pronoun for people are now saying, okay, like there's more than two of them. I think them would be there group coal out. There's a little guy to this about maybe twenty then she then she actually does. Jeez. And all these a lot of do all of them. Well, she does my incorrectly. She does my my list. Thank you for this. Tremendous honor. What I love most about this community is the way you own the outset. See see he Hugh. No letter. She forgot the K K lift out the K, and she forgot to be for bike curious, although this discriminate against them. It is important to the knowledge that so now she's going to this second clip. She's going to explain explain to us as a very wealthy very successful acting straight white woman. She's going to explain to us. What's wrong with society? It is important to knowledge that with the exception of being assist gender male everything about how I was born has put me at the Kurt center of a damaging and widely accepted missed. This is the show of miss John. There's another man. Gayness orbits around the straightness transgender orbits around gender and that all races orbit around whiteness. We clearly do not understand because this audience gets whatever she Joe said. This myth is too. Real too many so gayness orbits SIS gender. And trans orbits forgot it already. It is ancient. So it is trusted. It is a habit. So it's a sumo to be the way things are it's inherited. So it's thought immutable. It's consequences are dangerous because it prioritizes certain type of love a certain kind of body a certain kind of skin color and does not value in the same way. Anything deems to be other to it self? That is with us from birth. And it is a myth the keeps money and power in the hands of the few instead of being invested in the lives of the free. I appreciate this community. There's crying. So I'm just white people. I appreciate this community. Because together we are not just going to question. This myth. We are going to destroy it. I would say. We're pretty damn gay friendly on this show and other friendly other. But I really would like to understand what this orbiting thing is I was clearly written for I just don't understand it. And then to say that this keeps money away from the people who need to be free. They're sitting on forty five million dollars a year, which they give to politicians and other lobbying a lobbyist groups this get our act together. She says the benefits to the few and doesn't benefit the lives of the many is where it should have been. But she says the lives of the free. Yes. Maybe she blew that lineup as possible. But I the whole thing was like since why when does gay circle SIS. I don't understand what it means like it's less than because it's an orbit, and we're the in the, of course, Whitey white man old white man Whitey. What the troll room someone say? It's hard to convince old white guys. It's fine. You know, here's the good news age just. But it doesn't faze me. Does it bug? You doesn't bug me? Does it does it create any paying in your system when you hear that? I like to bitch about it. But it's not like I'm shocked. I'm always like I'm not shocked by too much. I mean, this show is stabilizing influence on my sanity. Finally, we're we're hated. We're we're going to be the other get used to it. Get used to this word. Let's back off. And then take one more look at earlier assertion of this show. What are the Democrats thinking the United States is seventy two percent self whites? Yes, includes white Latinos. Why are you trying to offend seventy two percent of the voting public and think you're gonna win a lot of elections? And then going even further by promoting a socialist agenda, which is designed just to take money away from people. I mean, it's just baffling to me what they're thinking. And and there's a lot of them thinking that way, and I feel bad. I mean, you got your Bill Maher's, you get people in that panel all the hate hating on Whitey. But. Hathaway take a look in the mirror lady white woman. Dogs. Finally, finally, we got it. Study in P L O S. I think that's a real journal isn't real scientific never heard of it. Never heard of yellow us one. Well, we've read things from there a lot. Anyway, that's where this study is published. It is a study from university of Sydney. And here it is. I'll give you the abstract. The results of the study show that human compulsion to seek out animal companionship is one of the primary factors affecting our climate, particularly she tick Uley in the United States where there are one hundred sixty three million companion animals, roughly one pet for every two Americans the highest number of any country in the world. And the climate cost of this mainly because Americans are the largest pet owners in the world. But the tradition of pet ownership in the US has considerable costs as pet ownership increases in some developing countries, especially China and trends continue in pet food toward higher content and quality of meat blowback pet ownership will come pound the environmental impacts of human dietary choices. Yes, indeed. The number one thing we can do right away. To combat climate change to stay below that one point five degrees before twenty thirty is kill all the dogs. Dog haters. Finally, they finally emerge was waiting for this. And this is great because you can make someone's head now dogs, I you know, the dog is actually causing this is this is the equivalent of freckle as it were to bring that team back of your old thing about blowing people's minds by telling him climate change argument. Do you believe in peak oil? Yeah. Exactly. No. You don't have to worry about it because oil oil. But of course, they had the kill the peak oil Meam. Yeah. Completely was the last time you heard the term Recep, right? This second. So now, they got this deal with that kind of fits in with the World Wildlife. The WWF report about all the all the by the way this report, I this is pushing toward a twenty twenty big me up. It has something to do with the Paris, accords, health course. And of course, it's twenty twenty match. You get these back in play don't vote for Trump is what it's really about. But I have been hearing about this for ever this forever. For says the seventies. Oh, yeah. Of course, we know that clip got a clip. Oh, I'm sorry. WW port mistake and environmental news into the Nile aided wildlife over the past half century threatening life on earth, as we know it. That's according to a damning new report by WWF the World Wildlife Fund. The report finds human activity since nineteen seventy is responsible for wiping out sixty percent of mammals birds reptiles with the remaining animals threatened by degraded overexploited environment and the effects of climate change. This is Mike Bennett executive director of science and conservation at World Wildlife Fund what we in these now is for heads of states to take ownership. And show real leadership. Honey, step up means. Some dome man step up money step it up, bro. My last clip. I we doing time to go down. Okay. Had to last one or you can have it you go you go. So it looks like a Weinstein trial is falling apart. Oh, I mean the guys ruined. But they, but he's not going to jail is what you're saying. Yeah. It's falling apart. And so all I got this is like one of those clips just floating around CNBC in or whatever the network version. They just play stuff, you know, just like RT does this is Weinstein's attorney just talking to the to the Mike. And then the defense attorney of the woman, and it's not really enlightening. Right. It's just a nice little short summary clip. This is not about victim shaming. And this is not about suggesting that a woman who comes forward should not be believed apps in proof. This is about the proof that a witness who came forward committed perjury in the grand jury. What happened? Here is Harvey Weinstein was so vilified that he was considered to be low hanging fruit. You just indict him, and you worry about the convicting later. And you know, what's happened is now that drilling down on some of these allegations. And the district attorney's office is reeling down on these allegations. This case is not what it was cracked up to be. Wanna be very clear that the prosecution's decision to ban in. My client's claims does not invalidate the truth. Her claims it does speak to a system desperately in need reform. Hey threw away Lucius claims. But this has nothing about Weinstein innocence. On Lucius consistent allegation that she was sexually assaulted with force by Harvey Weinstein. It only speaks volumes about the Manhattan DA's office. And it's mishandling. My client's case. Yeah. He's walking. He's gonna walk totally. Said sad. Really? Because there is there is some reality to what's going on. But mis- mis- abused really abused for political gain abused for ratings and and obvious gated for the exact same reasons. It's a political football. These women are being other. There are other by the way. I have I have the peak oil of the dogs is actually for myself. I don't have to worry. What's going to happen as climate change makes temperature's warmer crops fail? We have a global food shortage. We start eating the dogs and cats fix climate change. Right. I'm all in. Dinner at my place. I'm not a dog hater, by the way. Fox. But yeah. Thanks. Everybody. We will be back on Sunday with another constructive episode for you remember us to support our value for value network and our entire value for value. Methodology divorce dot org slash NA. No agenda show dot com where you can find the later show links to the show notes in the archives and search and everything and coming to you from downtown Austin, Texas couple of join star state Marija six on the governmental maps in the five included in the common condo. In the morning, everybody. I'm Adam curry from northern Silicon Valley where I got to see by the way, the coastal went by which is another big train had a little attachment on the end, but it was a cheap little things some guy rented, anyway, I'm John divorce. That's your update on the train. That's right. It's foam fomer in the crackpot. Everybody. Until sunday. Ready to rock can't show me. B. You can't. Binge. Down. Interface database database stivers. Power after three. Junk. Alpha male on the interactive. So. Medal. 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BPR Full Show: Carrots and Sticks

Boston Public Radio Podcast

2:42:57 hr | 2 months ago

BPR Full Show: Carrots and Sticks

"Support for boston. Public radio comes from sun. Bugs solar offering remote or in-person solar system consultation for your home or business to learn how you can build a more resilient future you can visit some bug. Solar dot com heaven. Boston public radio more than a month late acting near him. Jamie has released a review into. Patrick rose the boston police. Union chief accused of child sexual assault the report reveals little new information. Though about how. Patrick grows was allowed to keep his job. After being credibly accused of molesting a child to be h reporter sara. Winter smith was join us to talk through the details on jared bowen in for jim brady new information is revealing just how insidious the delta variant of kovic nineteen may be the province town cluster is proving a model for breakthrough infections. And prompting the cdc to rethink its mask rules for the vaccinated. Dr catherine gergen barnett will join us to take our questions and your calls about how to keep yourself safe whether booster shots are necessary and more ahead on boston. Public radio Radio i em marta. Regan jim brady is off today. Jarred barn executive art seller here at w. h. Is joining me today jim. We'll be back on monday. Thank you very much. For a at being with jared once again it is right to see you and be with your once again marjorie. So early this year. The boston globe broke the story about the troubled career of boston. Police officer patrick rose in nineteen ninety five. The boston police department father criminal complaint against rose for sexual assault on a twelve year old though the case was dropped a subsequent internal affairs investigation found evidence that rose had probably committed a crime nonetheless. Rose stay on the force and you continued to rise in the police. Force ranks. j. The retired police officer faces thirty three charges involving six alleged victims in april acting mayor. Kim janet commission to report into bpd's handling patrick rose. Yesterday that report was released. It was late as our colleague. Zoe matthews reported but it was nonetheless finally released a total of five pages. It had very few specifics and the question is did it deliver enough answers or raise even more questions joining us on the line to talk through. It is sarah winter smith who covers boston city hall for. Gps new threat. Thank you very much for joining us. So you are the person on top of this for gpa. sharia What are you what have you reported. i mean. we don't seem to know really anything more do we. We only know a little bit more after this. I'm reluctant to call it a report. Because it's so brief i've just been referring to it as a briefing. The findings that we got worth things that we knew already. There didn't appear to be any good policies or procedures to ensure a timely investigation. We knew that there didn't appear to be steps for sufficient discipline. We knew that there was no oversight of the internal affairs division of the boston police department at the time. We knew that. I think what you said at the top with it. Raising more questions is true for those events. Were in the press corps and at a press conference thursday the who knew what when the possible additional names that might have some culpability in obstructing justice. In this case this brief didn't give us that. So how do you measure that against what the intention was here. There was an intention for an investigation to some degree to understand what exactly happened but there was also intention of transparency. So if it sounds like we're not getting transparency. How does what was released yesterday. Meet the intention that the recommendations that were put forward do. Try and meet the intention of ensuring that this does not happen again. I think if you were to talk to the mayor's office they would point to the documents that they've already released in the case that redacted batch of documents i think they would also say that the will is different. Right now In the past. I'm not sure that there was a strong an appetite for police reform as we're seeing from activists simplicity and regular people in the city And i think the mayor's office would also say that she's a different sort of leader. That's what she's been campaigning. On and so there is more pressure to take up the recommendations that have been issued. And i think that's the difference with what has happened in the past and the recommendations do again meet the intention of trying to ensure that this doesn't happen even though we don't know the names of who might be culpable well exactly that we're talking to syria. Which is covering the mayor's race for gbh we don't know. There's no accountability here. Which is a big deal. We don't know what that then commissioner paul evans knew about this. We don't know what people within the union The boston police knew about this. I it almost seems to me. It was is like another kind of drop dead We're not gonna. We're not going to really help you out here with a few recommendations growing what we should do going forward. One of the big complaints of activists we've had recommendations as you point out in your stories array of back since the ninety two saint clair a report commission that followed this wild scene a reporter for the boston herald back then of boston. Cops neely in most of them white cops going through mission hill body-searching searching and telling like almost any black kid they saw between the ages of twelve and or young men up to thirty there. Were searching them. For a alleged killer of carol demanding smith that was made up by her husband who actually did killer so this was a disgrace in boston and they were. The commission came in commission. He was a very jam. Saint clair lawyer. He worked for richard nixon. Various team laura. That had this whole elaborate commission and nothing happened. So it's a little frustrating all these years later and with all this attention bought to practice rose that what i would call kind of a almost a joke of a briefing or report or whatever you wanna call it i it. Is the mayor satisfied with this. I think based on her comments at her press conference yesterday. She is satisfied that the recommendations will try to help ensure that we don't see another really egregious case like this. I think to your point about the report. Being kind of flimsy recommendations aren't binding and in the case of the third recommendation. That's stephanie everett. The director of the office of police accountability made that the mayor amend the ordinance that created the office that has to go through the city or anything that the one. That's the most of the air you'll recall that. The mayor has had a tense relationship since sheen left the council chambers to go be the acting mayor and so i think anything that she sends down is going to have an uncertain time going through process but the other two recommendations that the boston police commissioner form a disciplined matrix so that there are clear and predictable disciplined outcomes and that the boston police departments bureau of professional standards initiate investigations within forty eight. Hours of getting a credible complaint. These are two things that my sense from. The mayor's office is there is will to take them up both on the political side and on the side of bp leadership of course out at critical time. We're closing in on the primary election in the boston. mayoral race. What are we hearing from Acting mayor giannis opponents as information comes forward in these recommendations and as we've been talking about lack of transparency so andrea campbell City councilor for the dorchester. Madison area immediately held a press conference following. Jamie's it's a familiar position that she's been in throughout the course of this campaign She will tell you that is because she has made police reform a defining part of her tenure on the council and her campaign for mayor and she came right out and said this is not enough. This is not thorough. She wants more of those who knew what when answers. She still insists that the us attorney's office would be a better office to investigate. Exactly what happened on on the internal side of bpd with the rose case at just because it's already set up Bpd has historical issues with answering foia requests an answering the council's own f- seventeen requests so the us attorney's office would have a much better time compelling all of the paperwork in the details and from ondre campbell standpoint. That's that's the best way to figure out exactly what happened here. You know a drag campbell is also a candidate for mayor acting janice are running again andrea campo is you as you said. Suray has been Tough on the boston police department and When when she has spoken out about the police department Union response was to make reference to family members trails with the law not andrea campbell's travails but family members travails with law. Which i think Certainly struck me as a kind of an understated blow. Twin brother died in In in the custody of of law enforcement so there's seems to be some bad blood there But i guess what. I'm what i'm wondering is. Is that where we're going now. The city council. I mean does this. What's the next step. So the next step for the first two recommendations the forty eight hour investigation initiation and the discipline matrix from the boston police. Commissioner i believe need to go through the o. Pack the oh pat has an arm that supposed to be set up In partnership between the mayor and the council the civilian review board the mayor said yesterday she has made requests to the council to begin. Filling seats are vetting people to fill those seats and the discipline matrix may be presented if the civilian reward gets together Than we might see the matrix presented to them at some point and then with respect to that third recommendation again that the mayor amend the ordinance that created the accountability office. she'll have to get a majority of votes to get that a minute past and we have to see the counselors are perhaps in the course of negotiating the budget. She has fixed some of the relationships that counselors were concerned about prior to that. If she has matt it may have a hard time. Moving to the council as marjorie mentioned the states back in recent memory at least one hundred ninety two in the clara report law enforcement is a big entity to go up against here. There's a reason that Their myriad reasons law enforcement police union one of them why recommendations often put forth but aren't actually fully implemented so is there any response or indication from law enforcement yet on these recommendations. You know what. I called the boston police department yesterday. They were working hard. And dealing with i think a couple of standoff situations that happen as the mayor was giving her press conference and then later on in the evening actually closer to where i live in dorchester so i have not spoken on the record With anyone from the boston police department to affirm but my sense from the mayor's office is that boston police department leadership is prepared to take up the recommendations this time and again. I think that goes back to the pressure that we saw last summer from people spilling into the streets protesting about racism and insisting people think about public safety differently with respect to police budgets and other things that have funding. Don't get funding. I think there's just much more pressure. Not just from the active space from regular voters. Who wanna see. They're sitting healthy and thinking differently about police. Money is a part of that now which disarray winter smith. She covers boston city hall. Gbh news you know. I just want to print out the obvious here. One of the big problems with this rose. Case of course courses accusation was nine hundred ninety five rose remained on the force with no restrictions on his interactions with children so I in a weird irony in this case since ray correct me if i've got any of this wrong but the the the the child that most recent that came forward one of the for most recently was the child of a father who had reported this sexual abuse many years ago. It went from father to child correct. It is right. And i've been told that they're even more heinous details yet to come forward in this case that is just one of the terrible details of this case. So let's move onto something else. That's kind of riot the whole mayoral race Counselor asaba george and this asaba george. You see a lot of for signs around dorchester. You see lava in west roxbury. I think if you look at the candidates for mayor. She's probably more moderate than some of the other candidates and she was getting Some police support actually mom well. The boston globe has reported that Alleged that she appears to have used her position on the boston city council to help her saw her husband's South boston development corporation. Just a couple of days ago. The globe reported to give more details here. The back in two thousand nineteen staffer from asaba jar. Georgia's office went before the zoning. Board of appeals trying to squash a building project and south boston. That would have interfered with the skyline views of this twenty four unit luxury condo condominium building that her husband had built next door the globe reports that The the staffer spoke against a new project but they failed to disclose at the c. Counselors husband was the guy in the process of selling one million dollar condos next door touting these views of the skyline as a selling point and i believe when when her husband complained about this he didn't talk about his wife's own involvement either. Then there's a lot of other complaints about not taking care of properties things falling apart rodent infestation just addictions of tenets. It goes on and on and on and on line. So where are we with sabi georgia's not she's still in the race What has she had to say about this. She's still in the race today. Her campaign has said that she has reached out to the ethics commission and intense. To make right whatever can be made right at point But all of her rivals in the field with the exception of michelle moon have come down pretty hard saying that. The story from the globe raises ethical concerns in that she owes voters transparency ending. John barrows was the first to come out with a statement saying and he says hobby george owes people some answers about this In the case of michelle. Who i think. She's typically circumspect. When i think about her and the budget process when all of the other candidates who are also counselors made their floor speeches early on in the process. She stayed quiet right up until the final day that there was to say something and i think somewhere on the trail she may say something also But at this point. I think it's up to the campaign to figure out how they want to move forward and we'll see whether or not voters think is the sort of real concern that they don't wanna see an air everything we've just outlined is in the past but has asaba joy. George talked about the the the the the guardrail. She would set up if she were mayor. That's a difficult position to be in to be the mayor of the city of boston and have a spouse who is a developer constantly seeking permit. Approvals interactions business dealings that the city has to manage in. Some regard is true. It's a very difficult position. What i've seen from her campaign is just that she will continue to keep her business separate from her husband's business. I think they have also said that her husband would not bring any business before the epa if she were to be elected mayor And again it is up to voters decide whether that is a proactive enough position to ensure there are no ethical violations if they want to see more from the next person who runs the city. What's extraordinary when you read this initial globe story that came out on on the twenty eighth. Her husband's history with the city is is is very long Inspectors of file at least four applications for criminal complaints in housing court against him or his companies Their questions about timely payment taxes it kind of goes online at it begs the question. I you do wonder what if if a nisa savvy. George didn't think any of this was going to be found out or i guess. It seems odd to run for mayor of the city of boston. When you're married to someone. Who's had so many problems with the city of boston. As we know there's been Rick is also reported about corruption at the zoning board of appeals and a certain wire developers getting help and blah blah blah. so it does seem Almost mystifying that she would run given this circumstance she has been a city counselor so i guess maybe she thought i don't know i mean what. What's the buzz about that sarah. I'm reluctant to speculate on what she got. I will say that the appetite for reform in boston right now is a strong and maybe long awaited one from what i understan- i think the be- pda and the zoning board of appeals if your a local sort of person you've come to understand that things are done on a case by case basis the more connections that you have the easier it is for you to get whatever alleviation that you need in order to move the project forward or if you have the funds to line the pockets of some folks just understood as common when it comes to development in boston and so now if you are up against people insisting that there should be reform. We have one candidate in the racing dismantled. The bpa pull it apart and make it separate. We have other candidate saying maybe not blow up the bp da but redo our zoning ordinances you're bumping up against that appetite for reform if you were dealing in a way in the past. Perhaps you anticipate that this was going to be an issue. Now we'll serena thank you so much for your updates on everything that's been unfolding over the last two twenty four forty hours in the mayor's race in boston so much for the dog days of summer it'd be very busy. Suray keeping up with all this. I saw you on. Jim show last night. So i'm not seeing you now zone but next time we'll see in person. I hope maybe never the rate with. Oh there you are connecticut you guys they throw thank you very very much appreciate it. Thanks for your great reporting on this happened to you. Thank you so much surreal. Richard smith covers boston city hall. Gbh news we'll coming up in a push to get more people vaccinated. What is the best strategy rewarding people who get a vaccine or penalizing. Those who don't for taking your calls on carrots versus sticks that's next on eighty nine seven. Gbh boston public radio. Welcome back to boston. Public radio judd balance in for jim brady. He'll be back on monday yesterday. Governor baker announced the first two winners in the states vacs millions giveaway for fully vaccinated resonance. Did you enter that. Judge the competition i did. Oh you did i win. Did you forget. I forgot to enter. But maybe i'm going to enter next time. Because they look very happy with their with their big checks the younger kick scholarship three hundred thousand dollars scholarship to college. Which is wonderful lenny. Way to get back to the governor. Baker like other bakers at like other governor. Excuse me he's using the sweepstakes essential to get more people vaccinated yesterday. Joe biden called on states and localities to offer hundred dollar cash incentives for vaccines while biden and baker. Both support using reward system to motivate the vaccine hesitant to roll up their sleeves. It's another area with to greatly diverge on vaccines and that is mandating them. That biden nauseous. J. federal employees need to be vaccinated. Those who won't have to mask up and get tested once or twice a week. Governor baker is not mandating anything emphasizing. The fact that we're doing very well with vaccinations in massachusetts that were second only to vermont and that were in a different position than some other states might be. Well we're taking your calls asking as we head into another corona virus crisis. What will it take to get. More people vaccinated are incentives. Enough are penalties more effective. Is it time for governor baker to go be on the cash incentive. The state treasurer depp goal bergen state auditor. Suzanne bump giving their employees and ultimatum. Vaccines or tests should be this this. Be the rule at every workplace eight seven seven three zero one eight nine seven. Oh a seven seven three. Oh one eight nine seven oh be. Pr w. h. Dot org is the email and you can tweet us at boss public radio. Where does it will take to move the needle on people taking the needle and are you like me losing your patients with the on vaccinated and wondering why we even give people religious exemptions since there seems to be no ten commandments or religion rule about vaccines which were not around. When these great religions were begun and even christian science which talks about a different kind of healing more faith-based healing against people good conscious exemptions to get medical care eight seven seven three. Oh one eight nine seven now. The governor of alabama of all places governor i-i've who's a very conservative governor They have a very very low vaccination rate where the lowest the nation's she's she's she's basically said that the unvaccinated are doing this. They're going to hurt the economy going to keep us from getting back to work and they're gonna cause huge spike and these poor hospital workers that were exhausted around one now exhausted in round two because people will get vaccinated because they're selfish. I mean th- obviously if you were listening. Yesterday i had a twenty four hour advance on your your tation and anger. Because that's where i was yesterday. I'm a little calmer today. Only because i've had. I vented so much yesterday but this this clearly requires a stick approach. At this point we see that. It's worked in france where president macron has has put vaccination mandates or or restricted people's access to every essential part of daily life for or the parts of the daily life. That you just want to participate in and it's working people are getting vaccinations. Australia says it will ease restrictions once seventy percent of adults get vaccinated. So that's a good stick isn't it. Yeah you're wearing your mask. You can't go places until seventy percent. The number that gets us close to her immunity works. I'm just seeing the broadway theaters or demanding. Full vaccination proof from audiences for they get to go and we have been saying this forever. You shouldn't be able to participate in society and take the rest of the responsible society down which people are doing. Now that we understand that these breakthrough infections can occur among vaccinated people. If you yourself are not getting vaccinate. You shouldn't be able to participate in society unless that's happening. Well it's such an odd thing and we know that the vaccines work. We know that people that are full of information. Misinformation are just full of misinformation. It's just you are causing tragedies here. You know it's just. It's just incredible. And i don't know why we've pussyfooting around this. I don't know why governor baker doesn't say hey you know stay cops go get vaccinated. State workers have to get vaccinated. Why why are the people. Why are people putting their lives at risk now if you're vaccinated you are very unlikely to get very sick. You're very unlikely to die. But a couple of people. I know that have been vaccinated and affected. This is not necessarily day at the beach. Some people that are very young doing fine. Some people have over forty over. Fifty are are pretty sick. Think of the scary part. Just this morning. I learned if somebody i know who's been vaccinated. Who has had a breakthrough infection. Just think about this. The scary part of that if you're around children who aren't wearing masks because they shouldn't have to. What if you're around somebody who's immuno compromised who hasn't had a vaccination for one of the few legitimate reasons that i can see that. They're not sure how affect their health. You're carrying that around. You're giving that to somebody else. We're learning this morning. From cdc experts that the viral load you're carrying is a vaccinated person is very intense. So you're spreading it. Who wants to have that killed on top of everything else when we were trying to do the most responsible things okay. So how do you get people. Do you have more peo- more prizes. The vac millions you give everybody a hundred bucks or do you say like they do outside of stores in the summertime. No shoes no shirts no service. We can add no shoes. No shirts no shot no service and just say you can't come in without a vaccine and you can't go to this place or that place without a vaccine pete in boston. Thank you for calling. Yeah hi yeah. I'm showing has not been back to needed I i have a heart condition Heart failure but i also had colbert like october and i was sick to three days. Pretty bad i was worried about it. And it's not that like people got onto like my cousin. Got a stroke when she had this shot. I'm at risk for stroke. So there's a lot of unknown stuff. And i understand everyone saying like like he. The gentleman just said what if children get it. I mean it's pretty. No fact children really do not get sick by someone not. That's not true. that's not true. The the variant has changed a lot of that there are kids. And it certainly. You're less likely to get sick. But their kids on ventilators and hospitals era kids are very sick with the delta very much different but if you don't want to get vaccinated i guess the thing for you to do is to stay home and not be around other people unless you're going to be double maths or triple mass or something. Because you don't i. I understand heart condition and there people who've been told by their physician the absolutely cannot get the vaccine under any circumstances. Maybe that's you but you can't risk hurting other people right but you you well this the thing you don't even know i understand. It seems like it's working out but the tests show. They did a study. In cleveland people were had coded. Have the same result. Its own got their vaccine. You can look up to study. The cleveland clinic wind has a study of one hundred. Seventy people died of the delta very forty four had not been vaccinated but the others vaccinated. So i just think you know not to say it's all misinformation is not true. We don't even know this vaccine goes through the lipid wall into a pregnant mother into the fetus. No other vaccine previously had every time that you can look ought due respect. You're wrong on some of this. You're certainly wrong about the pregnant women every single study. I have read says that. If you are pregnant you are. You are much more endanger and your unborn. Baby is much more in danger from covert than the vaccine. I mean i just. I withdrew respect. I i do think you are misinformed. It's also not so as much as it is about. How sick you or someone you can get tickets. Also about the spread. We're trying to stop the spread. This red happens less. If more people vaccinated pitcher truth of the matter is you have no way of knowing the long term effects of some of this stuff. And that's just be honest about that incurs the vaccine because you can't mandate you'll i hope people if they if they're worried about they get it would you can't mandate stuff. This is like you don't even know what it could be. A great experiment gone wrong in five years. Now that's all i'm saying. Ok p we mandate mandate vaccines every place. We mandate them in schools. We mandate them before you go to college. We mandate them if you're going to go to certain countries those countries mandate them. We mandate the choices. Pete just stay home. I mean if this is your. This is your attitude. Stay away from people. Because you don't have the right to make someone else very sick or possibly kill them. I mean that's the bottom line. But thanks for the call. Yeah so not mandate play. Yeah businesses certainly have every right employer certainly have every right and starting to do it now as we see other countries are starting to say no no entry no participation until you can prove vaccination. He's right we. We don't know how this is going to bear but we know what's happening. You know we we know people died. I know somebody who died very early on in this christ. We know exactly what it what i know. I didn't die after. I got the vaccine. Yeah i and you had to be very careful when you look at people talking about people getting the vaccine dying. Where were they were. They ninety year olds in nursing homes. That were not in great shape to begin with and got the vaccine and died from other causes. I mean you can't lump in people who may have been very seriously ill to begin with and again. I'm not saying there aren't some legitimate medical exceptions. There are and that's tragic for those people that they can't really be out in the world But but they can't and what is evident is that what we do know is the delta variant. Wouldn't have emerged so strongly had we been able to prevent the spread of infection with more people being vaccinated. So this we're we're chasing something here. I hear his point that that this is something new. And we're we're we're learning constantly but it's also evolving constantly because of our own inaction. Let's go to bill in marshfield. Thank you for calling bill. We lost bill in marshfield. We'll put you on hold and saving getting back in a couple of minutes. let's go to alison from new hampshire alison. Hi how are you doing great. Thanks for calling. So i i want to say i think the way francis handling it is wonderful. I was applauding macron for his bravery to take on and despite the protests and whatnot. This pandemic is nothing to play with Second parenting wanna one. You never reward bad behavior with you. Know a just reward you you know people who are not willing to get vaccinated as much different than people who cannot get vaccinated point. Yeah great plan totally sensitive to the medical reasons so therefore you know we all given vaccination cards. Why not medical exception cards people who have a medical exception card where math when they're out and about and the reality is delta variant even though you're vaccinated we're still spreaders so and i think what the cdc has done rolling back the the mass man you know or reinstating. Mass guidelines is important for us to all here and accept. This would be over by now if everyone had joined the effort the way we did to eradicate polio in other things. And i i loved marjorie your point that we are required in our society to a lot of things that infringe on our freedom including vaccinating our children before they go to school. Vaccinating ourselves before we go to college. You're you're absolutely right on that you can't travel to certain countries not to mention Wearing a seatbelt. Right now as i drive. That's a law. That's right and i'm obeying allow. I'm really tired of these people. You know Saying well it's my right. You're infringing on my right. Well you know the whole purpose of government is to make sure that we have safety and and the last thing you know i wanna say is my daughter. had covert in december. She now been diagnosed as a long holler. So when people say it was just a little cold. I got over it. It's no big deal. i've already had covert. I don't need to get vaccinated. Well the reality check is my daughter. Having cova now has employment tori disease for her body aches and pains. She doesn't wake up any day without feeling and pain. she's in support groups. She had to reduce her work schedule because she heard rain. Foggy she's exhausted. You know this is what a a young thirty year old woman who literally her wedding was ruined. I mean she's been through so much and now she's living in constant pain From long-haul couva. They've got her on a heart. Monitor for pound allison. And we don't know you're right. We don't know what this virus is. What what the future whether it's vaccination whether it's long-haul cove it we don't know but when people downplay it because they just had a week worth of feeling crappy and then got over it. They're not taking into consideration and the numbers are. We're not hearing on the news and number of long standing medical issues that have been caused by this disease this virus. Those are all great points. Allison and i hope you donner gets through this and I'll say one thing for the covert wedding. Did you have a code wedding. Yeah we did it on. Newstalk up in new hampshire. We just dependent us. Am i gonna try you know. We pushed out her real big wedding that we plan. Because of course you know you've got all these contracts with people and it's happening in october and i'm honestly frighten delta variant. We're we're thinking we're going to by then you know it supposed to be may of last year so we figured oh by october of twenty twenty five right here. We are but should've been fine. Well good luck to her and thank you very much. Those are all great points but meanwhile we had this email from bill. Hey chicken little. It still an experimental treatment on capital letters. If you are faxed you're safe from death why we no longer talking about those who die daily like the media was every day. During president trump's administration this is a political issue is not a pandemic. It's a dem panic. Saint anthony as vouch e and saint rochelle issues the. Cdc lady changed their minds every other day. Less flat in the for two weeks politicians going to try to shut us down again. I mean he's symptomatic of a lot of people's thinking and we can are deaths every day we well we are and that going up Kevin mccarthy speaker of the house said you know this is just this is just the democrats trying to create hysteria and fear this. What's really going on here with kind of too bad as it. We've come to see this as a political. I mean if that's the case why are the emergency room doctors stepping forward and saying that they're seeing that they're back in the same conditions that they were a year ago which were awful and horrendous seeing hospitals filled and having to make calls for ventilators again. Why are we seeing. If it is a political issue erasing the governors and some of these predominantly republican states. Step forward and say just get vaccinated. Help your community help each other. That's what we're supposed to be here for. And also to the last caller point there is no rhyme or reason to this. It doesn't matter who you are. What healthier in how you are. Maybe how unfit you are how. It's so differently. You could be the most fit healthy person doing all the right things and it hits you and you become a long holler or even in some cases die bill from marshfield. Thank you for calling hi. I'm responding to the fellow with heart. Disease yes i have a ninety percent high of ninety percent blockage in my heart. Oh i got the shot. I got the shots. As soon as i can could and i'm doing quite well. I think statistically hundreds of millions of people have gotten this shot very very few have suffered consequences. This is ridiculous this is. I think people need to think that the shot will mostly community and people are selfish. I mean there's just a selfish percentage of our population this is selfish percentage of the population by us. I think that there is a staff. Is this little story from usa today. Talking about people in missouri are addressing some people not everybody obviously are addressing disguise and begging doctors not to publicly revealed. They've received a covert vaccine Doctor at this ozarks healthcare hospital said patients concerns over how their family members friends and coworkers reacted if they got vaccinated. So there's there's this push from people that are in your circle of anti vaccines that are on your back. Meanwhile we've also had these interviews in the hospital of people who were virulent anti vaccine and now they're very sick with cova of voicing their regret so bill that's a great point and since this is a respiratory ailment. I would think bill you know better than i but if you have a heart problem or obviously lung problems underlying Any kind of covert breakdown. You're in more danger because of having those preexisting conditions. i think you're your heart disease guy. What do you think no. You're absolutely right I took guy got the vaccine to protect myself and protect my community. And i think people are too self centered. Now there's too many self centered people who don't care about the rest of the world. They just want to prove their independence and as a result of that. They're not gonna take the vaccine. They'll thank you very much for the call and good luck with everything With with the with the blockage bill brings up another good point too. I saw stories this morning. Tide wary mass. It's it's really paying the next where mask i mean. We're we're tough crowd we americans. Oh my god terrible fertile. Over a horrible. I tell you one thing. Save a lot of money and lipstick your back not worrying about lipstick anymore. Because you know i have to go out now and stuff at county where my math. Nobody's gonna see whether i have. My lipstick on are not debbie from an island. Thank you for calling w there. Hi debbie. Marie lost debbie. We'll put debbie on hold and meanwhile we'll try somebody else a seven seven three and one eight nine seven. Oh me in the meantime. I i keep climbing onto what jonathan gruber said earlier. This week. going back to that e-mailers point of that. This is a political issue. Who has touted this chief. Among our leaders in this country president biden has touted the vaccine president trump touted the vaccine as somebody who put operation warp speed something. He was very proud of something which did get vaccinations to us very very quickly lot. Sooner than anybody anticipated both presidents employed people to get this vaccine. For what they had done and mitch mcconnell you know who is obviously a no fan of president biden has been very effective in blocking democratic legislation for years. Now he's out there making ads saying go get vaccinated. I think it would be great. If foreign president trump uses opportunity to do something for that would be wonderful to tell his supporters. 'cause it's a lot of trump supporters getting vaccinated republican men mostly man. I find that interesting. Not the women but to go out and get vaccinated does that. We'll just remind people that he was the one who raced to the hospital to get himself treated when he got covert that will remind people that he also got himself vaccinated and that of course operation warp speed was his idea. But some people think we'd be better off at the trump vaccine To get more people enthusiastic about getting it that maybe you're not supported president biden. I think we have the scream of frozen screen. But can we go somewhere. Or what's the deal. Oh take a break. That's just take a rake and we are talking about what it will take to get more people vaccinated are incentives enough is it time for stronger in sterner leadership at the state municipal level to boost our vaccination rates. The conversation continues on gbh austin public radio. Welcome back to boston public radio. If you're just tuning in we're talking about vaccination rates asking you what is going to take to get more people vaccinated cash incentives maybe our mass mandates going to drive people to get vaccinated if you are vaccinated. What was the thing that motivated you. If you aren't what will it take for you to get your vaccine. And his pharisaic jar eventing. Little bit are thought of patients with the unvaccinated saving for those and there are those out there who have legitimate medical reasons why physicians that can't get vaccinated. I'm not buying a religious thing for one single second. Eight seven seven three. Oh one eight nine seven. Oh i don't know why so. Many governments in employers are buying it. You know. I just don't get it either because if we see that suddenly we're tracking this summer the way we're were tracking last summer. Well what happened at the end of we were forced into to some lockdowns again. Businesses had to shutter over the winter How many times do we think that the economy is going to bounce back. If we have to go there we can easily again prevent this. If we're getting people vaccinated and keeping society keeping businesses keeping retail keeping restaurants keeping theaters open as mentioned yesterday. I'm very concerned about this. For forming arts community which is about to relaunch live in person theater inside in august. They've they've got to be scrutinizing this this is an industry that literally cannot afford to go through another season without any revenue. We've already seen one. major theater. Company closed its operations that would be new repertory theatre in watertown. They're trying to find a way to resume at some point but they will not be opening this theater season because they just don't have the cash flow debbie from an island. Thank you for calling. Thanks to tell me wrong okay. He's a tough connection. Debbie so we're gonna try to hear we can't hear that well but so try to make it brief pay. Oh that's better. That's better i want to. I'd just want to say that. It is very very irresponsible and wrong of you to call people selfish when you do not know their situation that man who called in with a heart condition. Who had already had cove suggesting. Don't debbie. i'm interrupting you. Because we can't hear you i apologize. It's very bad connection. And i can hear if you wanna stay on. Hold for second. Try again. But we couldn't hear you weren't trying to shut you down. Jeffrey from halifax thank you for calling how you doing today. Fine thanks First time caller listening you guys all the time thank you. So i'm i'm a registered nurse. I've been through the whole kobe thing. I'm a travel nurse. I work at a massachusetts hospital. I can't wouldn't wanna say the name of it but the few things that come to my mind are You know we're we're at capacity. Pent up demand. People that put off their healthcare. We're we are got our foot on the floor and we we're jammed full. It's not going to be pretty if we get another wave of covert on top of that so my and also i wanna add unbelievably have colleagues there in antibac- cer- world you registered nurses just like oh my god. What are they do. They think that. But i just feel like if you know if you haven't had if you get sick with it and you haven't had your vaccination. You don't have a legitimate reason to not have medical reason then you just don't get healthcare simple as that to you and i. It sounds harsh. But when you really think about you know these people that are willy. Nilly burning up Resources that could have been prevented. I mean it's just it's just appalling to me. Well you know. Jeffrey or medical ethicist art caplan was was saying that If you're if you're don't wanna get a vaccine then you do get covert. You should put yourself into line behind all the people Who did get vaccinated or were infected when they were unable for whatever reason together vaccine so not alone in that thinking. I can't imagine what it's like for you as a nurse. I just want to ask you. We've seen a lot of people. I think we've read a lot of reports of people leaving the sector just based on what they've been through the last year do you. Are you experiencing that as well. Oh yeah yeah yeah no. There's like really high end highly. Skilled nurses are just like. I'm over this you know. The hospitals are beating them up to some degree Difficult call rotations and things like that The but these are senior nurses. They're you know just excellent and they're like i'm out just had an icu. Nurse go to be a an instructor at a I can't say but go out to be instructed. Because i'm done i'm done with us just killing me and my family and my wellbeing and it's it's it's brutal and it's incontrovertible if a person that expects their healthcare can't like put a step forward and try to contribute to this problem i mean yeah i yeah i mean it's a her. I had this thought. And i probably shouldn't say that loud but i'm going to anyway. It's like well it'll take care of all the stupid people eventually jeffrey. I can understand your frustration. But i gotta tell ya you guys are the heroes here. The first responders the nurses the physicians the people that work in hospitals the people that work in in healthcare offices. And i'm really glad to see this health association just saying for your fellow nurses that don't want to vaccinate. You gotta do it. He just go do it. And and i think that's going to happen but thank you very much for the call and good luck and Thank you for doing that service. Which is just remember. Everybody like jeffrey. A lot of people get to work from home. A lot of people are able to take vacations. Now we're not seeing that in hospitals. They're still having to work because he was started off the call by saying people catching up with the healthcare. They're just the regular non cova healthcare. They didn't get over the last year and they feel comfortable enough to go back for physicals and tests. And so it's nonstop can squeeze in one more. Call here before the news. Sarah from salem. Thank you very much for calling. Hi thank you for having me on. Okay taught you. What's up. So i mean my thought obviously i. I am vaccinated I did have cloven. It was the sickest i've ever been in my entire life. I mean it was absolutely horrible. And the reason i chose to get vaccinated as because i don't wanna go through it again but be more important wheat Both of my parents have pre existing conditions. i do work in healthcare and i guess my question is like what is it gonna take for people to decide that the vaccination is the right choice. I mean are they just wanting to like keep enduring this for the next rest of our lives. you know. people are just wouldn't just like hey let's just keep going. This is really been. Roll it out and see what happens and hope for that there. Will there be something. That is a turning point. I don't know sarah. I in my own family. I have a someone in my family. Both of them look the didn't get vaccinated and people stopped inviting them over at the house and didn't want to take care of the kids and didn't want to babysit basically. They're becoming isolated. That was what did it for them. But who knows sarah. Thank you very much for the call and good luck to your parents and you with the kovin situation we really appreciate the delta variant churns through the nation creating covert hotspots as closest province town. Are we on the brink of experiencing part two of the pandemic or maybe even three four or five. Catherine gergen barnett is here to talk about all things cova from vaccines to the latest mask guidelines your dial on eighty nine seven. Gbh boston public radio. Boston public radio. A costa rican gymnast. The olympics finished her floor routine with choreographed trick to black lives. Matter i taking leave your left hand behind her back in raising the right fist into the air. Gbh's kelly cross it will join us. Athlete activists skirting the no protests rules during competitions then so calmly discussing the store presence of lgbtq athletes at these olympic games. Jared going in for. Jim brady poet educator and award winning writer. Alexander is an executive producer on the forthcoming. Gbh kids animated series based on his first children's books acoustic rooster and his barnyard band. He will join us the new show. That's ahead on boston. Public radio foster public radio. Giant bowen is in for jim brady. He'll be back on monday. So there's more talk these days more and more talk about trying to get on the other side of this horrible pandemic while we've had it with cova d- it is not done with us. There's a delta variant gaining traction vaccination rates are fizzling out nationwide and public. Health officials are seriously debating. If it's time to mask up again joining us on the line to go through. All things about the uptick in crow virus is dr catherine gergen barnett. She's the vice chair. Primary care innovation transformation and residency director in the department of family medicine at boston medical center and be used medical. School dr brunette. Thanks so much. Joining us We appreciate you taking the time to be with us yet again. Thank you so much for having me. And i want to tell our listeners. As well you can reach the doctors. She's gonna be kind of to be with us for the next hour so you can call her at eight seven seven or us and we'll get to her through us. Eight seven seven three zero one. Eight nine seven o. Eight seven seven three. Oh one eight nine seven. Oh you can. Also email at bp are at w. h. dot. Org we recommend not ask extremely personal medical advice. It spits particularly your own situation. Because that's not something that this doctor can help you with. Your own. doctor can help you with any kind of general questions about masking the delta variant of else cova She's here for you until One o'clock eight seven seven three. Oh one eight nine seven hour. Thanks again dr. For being with again i so appreciate it. Oh absolutely it's it's such a pleasure thank you for having me well. Can we start with the new guidelines. From the cdc. But what we're supposed to be doing now in terms of masking and explain why the cdc a reach that decision absolutely so you we we every time. It seems that. I come in and have the opportunity to join you all. There's just so much that the landscape is changed and and as was shared last night. And as the cdc was giving some more of their data. there was some officials that were saying really the war on. Kobe has changed While i don't love war terminology all the time. I think it's probably very accurate So earlier in the week on tuesdays. Cdc came out and talked about Revisiting the mask guidelines. I think there had been as as people probably know. In may There was may seventeenth. There was great jubilee. When cdc announced that for everybody who's been vaccinated. They can remove their masks. We can really start to breathe more freely literally and figuratively And there was many people. i think. myself included in public health officials. Who worried about what kind of guidelines were were given in part because it said you know you really should be policing yourself quote unquote so if you haven't been vaccinated you should continue to wear a mask. We know we live and populations where Again looking at united states vaccination rates where there are people high populations of people especially in certain areas will people have not been vaccinated So people were walking into places where maybe people are wearing masks. Maybe they weren't So there was a lot of confusion not to mention people who had Young ones at home or or people who are immuno-compromised and vicky will what am i going to do to protect them so all of us to save the cdc came out on tuesday saying actually the delta variant is concerning enough that we are now recommending for places where there are substantial or high transmission of colbrad We should go back to wearing our mass indoors so so for the listeners just to kind of define that a bit so substantial transmission means fifty to ninety nine cases for one hundred thousand and high caseload is is one hundred cases per one. Hundred thousand The problem is that most folks don't necessarily track. The data is carefully as many of us may track the data to understand. What does that mean. where am i do. I need to look every day At where might the rates are for my county. And how do i make those decisions We also know that. As of tuesday and this is growing even more sixty. Three percent of counties in the united states. Meet this criteria. You know just it kind of kind of telescope a little bit. I think there was a lot of pushback on this. Cbc guidance they came out on tuesday and then late last night and more will be coming out probably today. The reason finally came out in terms of the data that they have Which you just had at the top of the hour Talking about just how transmissible delta variant is And and the important really important thing is that if you're vaccinated you are still three times less likely to to get To you know catch over nineteen Anderton times less likely to die. So just pausing the second that's hugely important data if you do get kobe nineteen if you're vaccinated then you have just as much viral load as somebody who has not been vaccinated so that is really new. Data that is very specific to delta. That is extremely concerning so again. If you are vaccinated you are highly protected against cova nineteen but if you do get cobra nineteen you are just as likely to pass it to somebody else. So that is very compelling for why massar necessary doctor would you suggest for. People who sustain who who's health may have changed even slightly. Because i think we've heard a lot. Recently people thinking they just had a summer cold after not wearing a mask after all. This time wearing a mask realized that no. It wasn't just a cold wasn't a like cold. There weren't sniffles. They actually had kovic. So what's your advice. Especially since testing is so much more expensive now. It seems yeah. Thank you dr. Set me up per at perfectly With the second part of question So so let's just. I want to go to the word breakthrough for a moment because i think sat word is used a lot And i would say listening and sort of cut collaborating with colleagues who were virologist and immunologist. I think that term can be Gained dress because the vaccine was never meant to protect a hundred percent against ever getting covert nineteen. That's really important. So when you hear breakthrough you think somehow the vaccine has failed right and it sets up this. I think set of distrust so the vaccine is doing its job in terms of keeping you from going to the hospital and dying from cove nineteen That being said people who've been vaccinated especially with this delta variant. Like you said jared may have more likelihood of having sniffles not feeling well And we absolutely recommend everybody who maybe you just think that you have allergies or you know you're just a little run down. Please go get tested. It is easier than ever And you're doing not just yourself a favor but everybody who has been around you so thank you for asking. Let's go to a call. 'cause craig's got a call that i think a lot of people are wondering about craig from hudson. Thank you for calling your doctor. Gergen barnett gergen. Barr thank you. How's it going great. Thanks for calling. You're welcome. I think i. I may know the answer to my question but it just may be frustration in my question was or is Why hasn't the fda given the full approval now i'm gonna preface this by saying i'm i'm vaccinated and you know i make a decision. Based on the information. I have and i i think actually need is actually better too bad choices because because of the situation that this this vaccine for these vaccines are not fully approved by the fda. I think it's unprecedented that Millions of people. Maybe it's billions of this point of taking the vaccine that has not been fda from the flaming. i think it's the better of two bad choices. so i think the answer my questions. There hasn't been enough time but that's extremely problematic for some people not for me but for some you know i would just ask the doctor Seeing any way that could be processed could be sped up so that is reason could be taken off the list or something i cried. Yeah thank you so much for for your important question. I think this the difference in people's minds between what's called emergency use authorization to full approval. The vaccine is really Again i think Something that people a lot of people hold in mind as a concern and saying you know. I'm not going to go and get vaccinated. I don't need to get vaccinated or you can't mandate a vaccine until it comes out of this eu way or emergency use Status you're absolutely right that This kind of full status is absolutely kind of part of a matter of time. It's a it's it's defined as you know The fda has to fully determine the known and potential benefits of vaccine over the known and potential risks so and that needs to be kind of correlated over Data that comes out over a series of months that being said everything that required something to be emergencies authorized in terms of really scrutinizing the data that we had thinking about the safety and efficacy thinking about what was happening up to face. Three trials was just as rigorous as what we would need for full approval so wall. I totally agree with you that we need to continue to expedite growing to fall approval. It does not going from full approval to emergency emergency use authorization to call approval in no way is going to say to any scientists who understands the way this works it is more safe now And so actually you can mandate era and you can say that is just as safe and effective If it's emergencies authorization to full approval. But i think that terminology is important for people. Not difference is important for people so really appreciate your call. Thank you for the call craig. Doctor i'm going to ask you this. A lot of stories written about the delta variant being a symptom of vaccine refusal elaborate on nadalo bit for our listeners. Thanks yeah thank you so much So you know we. We've talked a lot about the way that vaccines Sorry the the virus continues to mutate. That's just part of a way that viruses live. That's you know very smart Technique that they have for getting more and more people infected so we know that the more people who are unvaccinated and the more people who can serve as quote unquote hosts for the virus the more likelihood that the virus is gonna get even smarter. So they're going to say. Actually how am i gonna get into that body and make you know tons of viral load and replicate come all out and get more and more people sect because that is what keeps obviously a living longer And so therefore the more people we have left on vaccinated the more likelihood that not only are we going to have things like the delta variant coming down the pay but we'll have other various news very recently that there's actually a barren variant in in florida. That has come from columbia and It is not yet a variant of concern in terms of you know we don't understand whether or not it's more infectious than delta But do those pieces of news are going to continue to come out. We're going to continue to see stories of how this viruses mutating and you know. Hopefully that won't happen but continuing to change and at some point are vaccines may not work so So therefore you know thinking about data is unfortunately built on the shoulders of folks who are unvaccinated. Let's go back to our callers and ryan in boston. Well doctor you've got me scared talking about florida because i'm supposed to be hopping on a plane next week going to florida. That's part of the reason. I'm calling We have a fifteen month old. He's flown In the last year we waited until the last couple months. But my question. I guess in general is what are you. Recommending for parents with young children Specifically either where where we feel comfortable taking them This the media attention about the slight next week but in the long term. He has been staying home with the nanny for the past year. We were concerned about kobe. He's supposed to start daycare in the fall I have a friend that lives in kim city missouri. He told me his son bake hair. They're on lockdown right now because that's how they're tested positive for delta last week so they're waiting for their tests So obviously i have played more concerned about the ball. All hang up and listen but thank you. Thanks calling you. Thank you ryan And and i'm and i apologize. I don't want to make you more fearful of i You know using it as an example. But i think ryan esat to good question and so much On so many of our minds especially those of us who have children who are not yet eligible to get a vaccine So in terms of travel. it's tougher a little bit tougher with fifteen month old in terms of wearing a mask But as as much as your team could tolerate it obviously they're not mandated or or and required We say sort of two and apas When we ask. But certainly you and your partner if you're flying with one Wearing cayenne ninety five Which are you know. Mass that we Think that offer Maximum protection And then You know doing everything you can in terms of mitigation of Risk once you get there so where are you staying. Where are you eating You know doing most of your activities outdoors when you're going to see other people knock gathering in large groups I would recommend wearing a mask anytime you're indoors in florida And i frankly probably would recommend people any time indoors in massachusetts wearing a mask at this point So really thinking about that in terms of daycare. So we you know i. I know there are so many states That are really kind of struggling with what they're going to do. As all is upon us in terms of what their mandates are going to be around mass As as many listeners. Probably know the american academy of pediatrics came out last week and then the sea supported their statements saying that really everybody in schools to and up regardless the vaccination status should be wearing mass in schools. I know that Governor baker has not yet come out as to whether or not he'd be supporting that And and i think there are many schools that were are probably gonna start to lean in that direction Maybe with some pushback I think the other thing if you're looking at daycare situations You know places. That are not unionized or private organizations. What is the vaccine status of of people who are working there And you know while while you can't inquirer into people's you know vaccine status per se. I think getting more information from daycare and terms of what their policy is. What is our policy for testing For people who aren't being vaccinated and this question and marjorie brought it up at the top of the hour about where are we with mandates. And how will this come down. Obviously i can't answer what your daycare is going to do But i think watching that. Very carefully You know and and i. And i'm i think really reluctant to say at this point. Don't travel Because i think we've all sort of forsaken lots of travel and doing everything you can while you travel to keep you and your family super-safe for the new one hour. We are with dr. Catherine gergen barnett of boston. Boston medical center in boston university medical school. Dr what is your thinking right now. About booster shots for the vaccinated and will differ based on which vaccine you received. Yeah great question jared. i'm so you know. They're so against so. Much evolved in terms of booster shots as as listeners. May know so. Pfizer came out A few weeks ago sending you know trying to get emergency use authorization for a booster shot and faouzi then came directly out afterwards. Little bit out like scolding visor saying that's not necessary. We don't have the data You know that's really putting the cart before the horse. Kind of attitude And now i think would be increasing data on delta variant and just how virulent it is and how strong it is There are some conversation. Now that there will be Potentially some cdc will come out and recommended booster for people sixty five and older or people who are immuno-compromised And so i would not be surprised if something comes out that that sooner rather than later You know the question as things are being studied. Would it be just a third shot. Would it be the same thing. Would it be different thing You know cdc saying at this point we don't really wanna mix and match you know but but will there be some evidence that we could do. That i know israel has started to push out Third shots based on what they're saying is decline and protection After a certain number of months and then the final thing. Just say about that. Because i know. There's lots of consternation are ron johnson and johnson. And you know. I think at one point. We probably dedicated. Most of the show to johnson and johnson pause. So they've had they've had a little bit of stopping starts. But johnson and johnson vaccine does protect you against delta and and so that you know specifically against getting very sick and being hospitalized I do know there are even just you know. As of a few days ago Different health experts recommending different things. I'm saying actually you should just go ahead and get your a vaccine and some people saying you know. We don't data i would. I would say. We don't have data yet in terms of if you got johnson and johnson which is different technology that met the. Mr you know. Is there any harm or is it all benefit or is it neutral so I think kind of tvd on that. But i also think that will probably be coming out pretty soon because everybody is anxiously awaiting not information You know meanwhile globally many of our brothers and sisters who live in different countries don't have any access to vaccine so these are hard questions to answer in the larger sense but in terms of how we protect ourselves. I think we we're all. We're all waiting for that. We're talking to dr catherine greg barnett. She's from a. b. b. boston medical center in boston. University medical school karen from plymouth. Thank you for calling. Thanks first time caller i. Jared marjorie admire author. Yeah i just call hi I have canadian relatives. And they're telling me that they're mixing and matching the first and second does if you've got more during the first time you could get five the second time they're saying it's fine but my question is i've a friend Who had coded. And then she got the first shot and she doesn't want to take the second because she said that she already has them unity and she said she saw you know she. Quoting the cdc. And i didn't find it on the cdc today. They're not very intuitive about asking questions over the box. Yeah yeah i. I really appreciate that karen. Sometimes i i find like where's your like. F h hugh for you know the every day person right section on the cdc website. So i will say interpret your friend who got visor. Madeira heard a great analogy today Or yesterday from immunologist. Who who talked about the fact is is pfizer. Madonna both use the same technology. And and it despite me not necessarily usually using soda analogies. He used it as you know. You're either drinking soda out of a can or out of a bottom like the inside is kind of similar. So when met mixing matching i meant the aruna versus johnson. Johnson which is a different technology In terms of your friend That's a tough situation But but absolutely were still saying that the immune response that you get from being sick is not nearly as robust and predictable as what your immune response will be if you get the vaccine. So we don't know how protected your friend will be in the long run we know she with delta variant after the first shot you're about thirty percent protected but the question is is. How much did her illness take her. Above thirty percent to perhaps you know in in in contrast if she got two shots we know to be about eight percent so I think that if she could continue to have conversations and not just you know i think. Unfortunately there's so much information. That does disinformation or incomplete information on websites. She could have a conversation with her primary care physician. Or somebody she trusts. Who's a medical professional key. Give her that data and very hopeful she will come forward and getting her second shot just to protect herself and her loved ones. Let's go oops karen has gone. Let us go to brad in concord. Hi brad around high my desk about something. Which testing which was very successfully done in our ice cole system and conference year and it seems to me a great way to drive to the virus down in communities. A lot of talk about the schools are going to start Why don't we have a statewide or even nationwide pulled testing in schools. Yeah thank you so much brad for your call you know as you you know. I think probably all of us have seen this. The difference between a federal response in a state response and even county response right so I think every school system and maybe even by state while take different approaches to this. I think you bring up an excellent kind of public health cornerstone which is the pooled step testing which was like you said very efficacious Last year You know my my real priority at this point Simultaneous to we keep the rates down. As how do we actually get the vaccine rates up. for kids who are twelve to eighteen eighteen We know that actually There's really recent interesting data that came out of the kaiser family foundation which showed that basically one in four families With a with a child. Who's anywhere between twelve and eighteen. Don't intend on getting their child vaccinated And and one and five families say they're just sort of on the way you'd see pattern and we know that the uptake of vaccines for that age group still really low. So there's a real question. I think you know. I know this not directly what you asked about but thinking about school children is where are we on mandating vaccines for school children I know this is controversial. I will also tell you as a family medicine. Doctor who vaccinates children every day against preventable diseases. I think a lot about where we are on on this trajectory and the fact that we know that actually kobe. Nineteen has has killed more people than than this year than than people would die from chickenpox and we also know that it that it is very you know safe and effective and We really need to start thinking about how we're moving in that direction so so to go a little bit beyond the pool testing which totally support But will need to come from the state level response so thank you. Thank you so for your call. Dr is you know better than i do. You can't go to school without getting a measles-mumps-rubella diptheria now chickenpox. There's that's vaccine is relatively new. You have to get that. You have to get the meningitis thing before you go to college. I don't gac beyond politics which seems to be the only explanation. Covert is an added to the list when it is available for for young kids or it now for older kids is what is the difference besides the fact that this has become a political fight. I think it's just that. I think there has been so much disinformation that has come out around this vaccine Dr evac murky came out. I think just last week saying you know the this disinformation is actually one of the greatest public health. I'm threats that we have I would love to see federal response to actually counter some of these threats. And how do we message. How do we counter message. It is so prevalent in so pervasive. And and you know even with patients who i've known for years and i have a very kind of close trusting relationship. Sometimes they bring things up. And i'm so surprised that they still hold true For instance questions around fertility And the color nineteen vaccine. And and how do we kind of navigate as public health officials and i think citizens of communities to truly you know not. Just throw up our hands but say these are these. This is disinformation. That's out there. This is the data actually has countered And and to your point Mercury you know going back actually. To to rates of infection so measles before we mandated A vaccine killed about five hundred kids the year and nineteen has killed four hundred kids this year. So it's actually like very similar and And and we we I think they're rebid gun pussyfooting around it. Yeah i think so too. We're going to take a quick break and get back to your calls for for kids for families. I very frightening. Sorry you cut a little bit there. The wonders of zun technology. As i mentioned we're going to take a quick break. We talking to boston medical centers. Dr catherine gergen barnett. She's taking our questions and yours. Keep you dial on eighty nine seven h. boston public radio back to boston. Grady of you just tuning in. We're talking to dr catherine gergen barnett. Vice-chair primary care innovation and transformation residency director of the department of family medicine at boston medical center and boston university medical school. She's here until the top of the hour. Taking our questions in your calls number is eight. Seven seven three. Oh one eight nine seven oh the email address is bp are at w. h. dot org. Dr just went quickly asked before we move on to other issues while you were talking about children in schools and we heard this earlier in the show to with some of our callers. There is this thought among a lot of people that children are less at risk of coverted. How do you answer that. Yeah thank you so much for asking that question So while children are currently seemed to be less at risk of getting extremely sick and being hospitalized and dying there are serious consequences of of children. Getting sick So so we actually know that That there is Something called this multi inflammatory. syndrome that one and one thousand children are at high risk of getting if they ever get copeland nineteen. Which is you know that affects every part of your oregon. We also know that there is as high as one out of every twenty five kids who got infected with code nineteen may have long long kovin So what does that mean. That means that you have symptoms that last for months so your brain fog. You don't well you're short of breath There's lots of kind of Stories that we're hearing of healthy young people who are athletes who can't go running For months and and so you know as a parent. I would say Who want that. Who wants that for their kids like. It's not just a cold like the impact of these things are are pretty big on and it's and it's a massive gamble To be taking with our children and obviously for for our communities. So i think that's another perfect example of this information is just not whole information right because i think initially were so relieved when we are learning about kobe nineteen and sort of the first wave and i peak of the pandemic that you know thank goodness children are dying from this. I'm but we see now. News in indonesia that actually lots of children are dying from delta. So i just think that it's really spare shortsighted To think that just because kids aren't dying his high at high rates that it's not also dangerous them differ from high park. You're on the phone with dr. Thanks for calling afternoon patterns a margin v. i really really love you but i don't think shaming people into taking vaccine is going to work and i have two points on that and why is because i mean. The fact is none of us ever have to be born. You know what i mean. We have no idea what it is. We are trying to figure out what it is. I think what needs to happen. Some kind of consolidation of you know smart minds like dr gergen burnett. I believe name is. I'm sorry Try you know because my my question is. Where can we go as people who just want to know. You know some kind of facts. Where can we go to get something. That's repeatable that's not so technical because the way we get out information now was like okay just like you said our children dying from cove. It i don't know you know sometimes on cnn. They say children are sick. Some you know sometimes will start on fox news or starting with some kind of you know other other poll let make whereas like you know in this seeping. Then it's like not mainstream but it's like how. How are we supposed to take from this of stuff. It get no nutrients and the stuff that we need to actually make a decision i. I don't think you can blame somebody for say you know what i'm going to stay away and just wait and see what happens because i don't know what's happening. I have no idea what's happening here for my son's i'm scared for my mom's gift for everybody. I mean it's it's like but don't think you can blame people in shame people to say you know because you don't get the vaccine. You're putting everybody else that dangerous i would like. I mean i'm not. I don't wanna make this contentious. This has to be something where somebody like. You said you said you love me so we're good. That's fine okay. If you if you disagree with me that's fine. Why don't you let the doctor will let the doctor answer your question. Thank you very very much for the call. David i am so grateful for your call So you know i. I work at boston. Medical center and i I have one on one conversations every day all day with my patients and people in the community. Who are you know very similar concerns. There's so much information out there. And even i have a medical directory and i have a hard time keeping up with everything that comes out and saying you know what's real data what's scare tactics. What social media. What's coming from real. You know kind of Scientific inquiry So the first thing i would say is you are not alone And the second thing i would say is there are people And and myself included. Who are going to community events or answering questions who are talking to people where they're at with the understanding that not everybody who is refusing quote unquote to get a vaccine is doing it. Because they're you know politically driven but because they're not sure they don't have the information and that's totally valid. So i would say a couple of things. One is If you have a primary care physician or placing go. We could ask these questions. That's always a really good place to go just that one on one conversation honestly off for myself up to go do more community conversations. We do that of emc. We go out to all kinds of places and have these town halls. And but i also. I'm not alone so depending on where you live. There are town halls And i would also just go. You know. I don't. I don't know where you live but go to emc website and we. We have still all kinds of pop up events. And i'm just going to put that out there. You are welcome to contact me directly. And i'm happy to set something up because you're asking really important questions david. Thank you for the call doctor. You wrote a great piece for the globe about healing from the loss and the trauma of cove it while the pandemic continues on to tell people what you what you said. Yeah well first of all. I've never started an op. Ed or any kind of writing writing about a dream this is. This is a ball nice. You know giving a little bit of too much information about where my kids i loved. It's it's a really good metaphor. So i think That's why i wrote about in terms of I think a lot of where many of us are feeling right now. So you know massachusetts weezer that said okay. Thank god like may seventeenth. We can take off our mass. We can start doing things back to normal. We're had a good summer or we're going to you know. See our friends. I've given so many hugs right And the story share is that i was travelling in my dream and i was trying to get from one. Sorry well that's okay. We have these events all the time on. Someone's calling the doctor. Maybe it's david my part issues. We didn't hear the ringtone so all isn't that the best way you always get a glimpse into somebody's identity there ringtone. Thank you for or no problem soon. Not so so all that to say is i was. I was traveling. And i was trying to go from one gate to the next and it became this whole like you know very Convoluted travel from one thing to the next night. End up missing my connection and and you know having that sense that so many of us do like wait a second like we thought we were going somewhere. We thought we were getting out of this. What's happening. We're now sort of anticipating that. We don't know what's gonna happen in the fall. We don't know what's going to happen with travel. We have that person who called about. You'll trip to florida and having misgivings about that and concerns and So so the article in the heart of it is really had a. We continue to actually pause even as we're moving to recognize that we've all been through these incredibly traumatic events Some some were you know quote unquote than others But so much grief so much loss so much that you know. I've born witness to that. My patients have lost. You know everything So much loneliness so much trauma and and how do we actually build a system where you know in healthcare in schools in our communities. We can all start to do something called trauma informed. Care where we're no longer using this kind of Lens to say you know what's wrong with you but now we're actually saying what happened to you right. And how do we go from there And and and the importance of kind of recognizing that we've been through these things so that we can continue on. It's not it's not. We're not going to stop right now. Unfortunately we're not healed but we need to continue to heal each other ourselves even while we continue on the voice of dr catherine gergen barnett. She's with us for the rest of the hour. She's from boston medical center and be used medical school. Go back to our calls and mary lynn from boston. Hi mary lynn. Hi thanks for taking my call chum. So i've had a couple of Friends and just anecdotally hearing not you have a positive cove it and then Any appropriate time line. You get your vaccine and then a couple of months later or tested for cova for whatever reason rapid test comes up talkative but ipc are comes up a day or two later negative. I'm wondering is there any data to show the validity of one over another and if there is how that the Communicated to primary care offices to make sure the appropriate testing is being done great question. Mary learn You know it's amazing to me that you have a cohort of more than one or two people that you know that i have that exact thing happened to but but i you know i think so. The short answer is that the pcr is still considered the better test It's more sensitive. It's specific it kind of grows on agar or like a gel And so it's just it allows us to kind of confirm More whether or not collision nineteen is. There're sars covy to A rapid tends to be more likely to be positive if you're having symptoms It actually is not considered as good for people who may be asem dramatic carriers usually who get a positive people who get a positive with symptoms as usually true You know Again i would say that people are able to get A pr over a rapid that's generally The the preferred test. But usually you hear people say i gotta rapid was positive. I've got another rapid. It was positive And so you know. I guess i guess what i would say for for people who got a rapid. It was positive and negative. They're a little bit Kind of in limbo. But if they're symptomatic. I think that they Probably should test or or or trust that you know. The the rapid was positive since it's better A better test for people are symptomatic. I don't know if that answered your question it did i. my second follow up is just. Is there data. That shows that there's if you had a positive kuban taste do we doing yet. No how long that sticks around that antibody and immunity that it would get picked up in a test Without there being symptoms so like a positive test that is actually really negative. Is i guess my question. Yeah yeah though. It's usually. I mean it's similar. You know i sort of think that as we've gone through further through the pandemic were We were kind of losing track of some of what we initially shared with people. So so we consider that when you've been exposed to covert nineteen that you have served via. The window is around three to five days. When you would start a then have the virus yourself Symptomatic or non. And that's when you should get the testing again If you know if you have a positive test I would i would assume especially if you have symptoms. It is true there are such things as false positive If you get a negative cr test the next day It it you know it. Shouldn't it shouldn't change that rapidly. In other words you know within five to seven days. You should still see the results on the test. Thank you for the call maryland. dr We got a lot of increase about women who are pregnant. This is one from a tom who says his daughter is very anxious about launching effects of the vaccine and the immediate side effects of the vaccine under baby. She's doing december. She's only received the first dose of pfizer. He wants to try and convinced the second dose. The baby's father is not vaccine. Neither is his family. So should this. Oh tom i'm so glad you you send a note and So so there is lots of evidence to show that the vaccine is safe for women who are pregnant And not only is it safe. Both shots on But it protects the baby so so when The baby comes out especially if they're breastfeeding. They get all kinds of antibodies From their mother but there is also passive immunity that is passed The the vaccine itself does not enter. The placenta does not enter the house. Where the baby is growing And again it is very very safe with no side effects for the fetus And all the more so to please please have your daughter Talk to her family. Medicine provider her. Obgyn wherever she's getting her prenatal care To get that second does especially if she is among people who are unvaccinated both to protect her and her her child on line is heidi from newburyport. Heidi hey thank you so much taking my call I just wanted to ask the doctor about If there's going to be something similar to the testing that we have four kovic for antibody levels I'm concerned because i think that there's a lot of Push back from people not wanting to be vaccinated. 'cause they say well i had over. I think i had covert so a new. I don't need to get back to needed. And then there are people Such as myself who were vaccinated early on. And i'm working in the service industry and i don't know like do i have a cloak his ability or am i up people that i think you know you know unlike. I'm like harry potter with that invisible. Close well heidi i. I think you're like harry potter with visible close. But you might be surrounded by owls or something. Bird like sanctuary sound behind you which is very us that no no sorry. It's beautiful So i would say the answer You know we we probably never will we. You know i don't imagine in terms of The utility of it be doing individual antibody levels population health editor for sure. So we are still you know. There's lots of data being collected right now. In terms of how long does pfizer last. How long does madonna last What kinds of length does it last in a healthy twenty year old versus alvie sixty five year old versus an unhealthy 75-year-olds so really kind of driving that data and then using that population health data to that applied to individuals. So somebody like yourselves saying okay. Heidi your x. Years old you got the vaccine and january february. Your vaccine will be good until november. I don't know you know. I'm just putting a date out there And applying sort of broad brush strokes to people versus to doing like exact level antibodies and and doing micro measuring like that We have a thanks for the call. Heidi we have a are a message from our staff here. About the mass department of public health today releases updated Vaccine recommendation saying of fully vaccinated. Person should wear a mask or face covering indoors if you have having a weakened immune system or if you are an increase for severe disease risk for increased disease or someone in your household is at increased risk or is unvaccinated They're saying that seems to be recommending all dealt with children where mass inside But they're not going to. They're not going to say everybody should wear mass inside even though in those counties where the the rights are are higher including boston so enough. I'm in. i'm thrilled. That they came out with that At least because Merger as you pointed out that that with all those categories put together. it is a lot of people Right and so it gets us a lot of the way there Look i will say that. I think the more that we split hairs with our recommendations that you should do this and you shouldn't do this I think the more confusion happen. Yeah so i would just i think as as you know are terrific state leaders. Think through you know the next few weeks especially thinking about getting us back to school and keeping our kids protecting our teachers protected. I would highly recommend that. We create mass Mass mandates again. Endorse and i think is just the safer thing to do. We've gotten a lot of questions about people. Going to weddings people going to ballroom dancing events people going to different get togethers. They're really excited about now. They're a little nervous and they're wondering if they should go at all or if they should go with mass or if people hosting these things should insist that people are mass. This is not just a massachusetts. This is around the country. So do you think overall just wear the mask and doors and be done with it. I you know. I think that If you are worried at all or if you're in a place where there are increasing caseload which basically is most places in the country at this point You probably wear a mask indoors Especially if they're you know this crowded And i think you know i think people will unfortunately With with lots of love for friends you may disagree with have to be asking more questions before they go to parties or or other things because there's nothing worse than showing up at something and feeling like you're the wet blanket you're walking ended this thing and you've got a mask on you're the only one so you know. Can the party be outside. Can there be Kind of a place where. Everybody's on the same page and and people can really enjoy being together without worrying about hitting one person against the other. We probably have time for just one. More call Let's next goto lizzy calling from cambridge lizzy and thank you for this program So i'm being putting vaccinated since february. And i traveled to california Who ended was necessary and returned on wednesday and on my return flight. I was double laughed and made sure that i did not take my musk. Golfman others were taking moscow and it was super careful. Not question is this. I'm going to be meeting with a couple of people endorse who are fully vaccinated today and tomorrow. I'm meeting with mostly outdoors. Thirty people who are fully vaccinated and my question to myself and to you is. Should i learn mosque at this point. Then we're given given that have gone through an airport to airport. Actually on my way back and i've traveled into plane. Yeah lizzy you're asking Sach thoughtful questions. And i no. It's not easy to keep a mask on a five and a half hour flight or whatever it may be very difficult So thank you for doing that. i would say that your new you in terms of your risk of having quote unquote caught something while you're traveling is not zero But you really did everything to sounds like mitigate your risk and your vaccinated so again vaccination absolutely Protects you Not fully from getting infected but as we know that just came out of the data just came out your three times less likely to get any sort of infections being vaccinated I would say that in terms of the outdoor experience of being with thirty people. I think that's great that you're outdoors. We are not recommending mass for the outdoors. I think you're safe to do that without a mask. I think your friends today. I mean i don't know where you live. I think you said cambridge. It's a gorgeous day out. Maybe you could be with your friends outside and it's also You know with three people is not a lot of people But if you're worried about your friends at all. I mean think that's where we start to think about these things are they high risk If they were to get sick so I guess i would just say. Consider a mass for for your for your friend and gathering inside or outside if the beautiful day out tokyo donncha. Thank you so much. I appreciate you taking the time to be with us in our listeners. So late you know everything. Thanks take good care to thank you. Dr catherine gergen barnett. Is the vice chair. Primary care innovation and transformation and residency director in the department of family medicine at boston medical center and boston university medical school again. Dr gergen barnett. Thank you so much for joining us and for your time this afternoon. We'll coming up in solidarity with black lives. Matter and olympic gymnasts takes stand by taking a knee callie. Crossley joins us for that and more on eighty nine seven. Gbh boston public radio. Welcome back to boston. Public radio are gone is in for jim brady and joining us as she does. Every friday is one of our friday stars out. of course you'd be the host of under the radar callie. Crossley and the name of the show is under the radar with kelly grassi. Hello kelly i forget my name. I kinda goofed up the under the radar. Part with i goofed up the preposition. I'm sorry marjorie. Just changed. While i know she's on this. Other emerging changed my name. One day i call you call you breath. that's terrible. I was called jimbo is that i don't think he thought that was kind of fun. All day was i called him. Peanut that's been hit by late dawn. I don't know what happened there anyway. So this is a fascinating story about jap. The the degree of racism that is is exists in japan. If you are. Not if they say we're what's the word they use purebred. Yes this is every where there's no place in the world where there's not some of this going on. In some very specific way so in japan the people who are what we would call by ratio are considered half. Which is you know. Literally a term that means half breed someone born to an ethnically japanese person in one non-japanese parents. So of course that would mean somebody like niamey osaka because their dad is a haitian and but so a lot of this has come up because i know how many mixed race and or biracial japanese plus other People were competing. There's a guy here the olympics. I should have said we're talking about this because he's olympics right right right. Because there's that guy david yano half ghanaian an half japanese. These are all these people that i had no idea. But apparently now naomi really push the issue to the forefront. I guess it's something that's just sort of roiling beneath the surface and there's a lot of support for homogeneity have to say from my one trip to japan one hundred years ago you're aware of it in some large spaces. I was in a in the bullet train station. And just me and my colleague who is a white woman and we're we realized first of all. We're huge compared to everybody else's small you know and so you stand out and so you really get a good sense of. I don't know that homogeneity actually comes to you in a normal way but until you're in a situation like that where you realize all around you you just don't see that much mix at least at least i didn't at the time and you may know that my my nephew speaks fluent japanese spent saw. He's interested in it. And then he became interested in culturally now his dance troupes works are based on japanese dance form so he spent some time in japan and his first trip there he wrote back home and said well. I get stopped a lot of people. I guess it's because i'm bigger than everybody. I know but in any case by home by blondie. So and then of course. They were shocked because he could speak fluent japanese so it wasn't you know he's a tourist but yet you know he had some connection to the culture in any case the is that this kind of this focus on half japanese have called hassle People they have designated as such because they're by ratio came to the fore because of the olympics and now Some people feel that because of the numbers of of Athletes who represent by. Ray show half japanese half other ethnicities that that actually. It's been a good conversation and it's made people think about well. What what are we saying here when we have we call people have breeds. Well we didn't do that. Well in the olympics right do know she also was the first japanese woman to win a grand slam and she was competing for japan. Right lit the torch for the whole thing. I would think that that might is you. Say was the biggest thing that because she has a worldwide passion and they're very proud of her and and they don't have a problem claiming people but so this is this has helped in that discussion. So you know it's good to have all these discussions come to the four. I'm sure all the rest of the athletes who've experienced some of them have talked about some of the experience they had in school being bullied it's been rough so this is nice to have this on the table now for them. We'll stay with the olympics for a moment. There has been a very quick evolution in demonstrations of solidarity demonstrations support for the black lives matter movement. And i say quick evolution because at first those images were being blocked but now we are seeing them manifest themselves through athletes as the olympics. Continue to play out. Yeah well this is interesting because this is Luciana alvarado of costa rica. She's a gymnast. And she was performing. She didn't quite make the the big team. In the end she qualify but at the indifferent performance. She raised fist and did a knee and said this was the support of black lives matter and in fact then when asked about it said her whole routine was really about equality and diversity and this so this was the capstone to it now. We already know that the olympics committee has said they'll be none of that. I hadn't heard there's been a lot of attention about what she did. But i haven't heard they're saying anything to her and maybe because she didn't qualify for the final team but of course We all said. I hadn't talked to you all specifically we all knew somebody was going to do something because it's a big stage and other people have said they were going to express themselves in that way if they felt they wanted to but i think two things are operational here first of all she. She wants to do what she wanted to do. And said her performance was based on. The second thing is just to remind people that most especially after george for floyd's murder you got a chance to see that. This was a global response. This people weren't responding in anger and frustration. Just in the united states it was all over the world so if people are quite familiar with both what was happening here in the united states and in their own countries to so to take a stand in the way that she did was really a kind of a twofold response. Both for the things that are happening in our own country and then just acknowledging the larger issue worldwide and by the way black lives matter period has always been a an international movement. People know that. But that's it's been interesting with. The olympics is to see how far and wide. I think things that we thought were very american actually weren't that they were very international in scope also. We import a lot of stuff. Or what is it. We export a lot of our culture export. A lot of our country imported it. We got then people really know about us in ways that sometimes we don't know about them when we travel to other places so it's interesting talking to callie crossley. You know we've heard a lot of this. People going bananas over mass fighting and you know burning mass and making these big deal about mass of this that that lease this this saint louis thing is just one example of this but this is a sea cow throughout the saint louis council or saint louis county council meeting. He promoted this new mask mandate and what happened why he was attacked now. Remember he's a public health official. It's his job to talk about. You know what are the issues concerning safety for everybody also. He's also responding in a larger context to what the cdc and other federal health organizations saying. So he said hey it's looking bad the delta variant everything that we've you all we're talking about with dr catherine gergen barnett and we have to respond in the first. Where we're going to respond is with. This mandate and people attacked him as though he had created the problem. And he's what are you talking about. So it's one of his quotes was really just he said i've never been in all the time. And all those places. He's talking about his his worldwide experience being public health professional. He's worked in pakistan south africa china australia. Zimbabwe and of course america. He said i have never been subjected to the racist xenophobic and threatening behaviour. That greeted me in the county council meeting last night. Now that just sounds ridiculous on its face and he sent a letter saying all of these things and saying what are you with the rest of you. going to say. The people his fellow public health officials and other county officials and he said his letter was met with deafening silence. Okay people we have just gotta step it up. This is you know he's saying we are not the enemy he's right. Well i'm not gonna me. I didn't create this. I'm trying to stop it. What is wrong with people. I don't know. I don't. I don't get a lot of what goes on. But you know something i want to talk about it upbeat story because there's been so much depressing stuff and let let me in with the downbeat store. Okay doctor has gotten many health. Death threats to the point that he had now has to have constant security which is insane. It is insane. There's all these. He gets constantly trashed on whether it's facebook whether it's fox news i mean this is constant trashing say a lot of the The fox's morning show has come pro vaccine now. I'm just saying this is to attack. The officials is if they somehow created this. You know we see this with some attack against doctors by the way in this piece about this saint louis guy. They noted that two hundred and fifty public health officials have left the field. Because of this kind of thing. Speaking of exporting me this is happening all over the world that we created yes. It's all over the world but we're not the only country where people are being treated like this. This is we need. All these people will tell the story about this young man who raised thirty eight thousand dollars cutting off his nineteen inch afro. I love that was something to see. People can see it this. They should look at the pictures. Maybe while they're listening to you because you have to see it. This is a washington post story about this kid named cure kieron moisy and apparently according to his mom this he's by the way isn't biracial. According to his mom he came out with good head of hair and he just loved it. He loved his hair so he just let it grow and grow and grow until he had. Nineteen inches is huge throw. He himself made fun of it. One year he decorated with christmas. I mean and people have always tried to cut his hair and when he realized he was going to have to cut his hair by his own choice not forced by anybody because he wanted to join the united states air force academy and you have to. Have you know short hair. So he knew that and this was has been his goal for a whole time he decided. Let's combine my interest. My hair being thing in my community to with a fundraising effort which i thought was great so he invited people from huntsville alabama to participate in a charity drive. He wanted to get a thousand dollars for each inch of hair than we got cut away. He ended up with thirty eight thousand dollars. Which is much more than the one thousand nine inches that he gave and all of that hair which he donated to that organization that takes now who've lost their here because of cancer so cancer has been something in his family by the way. The money is going. To st jude. Children's research hospital in memphis my home town. He's at the air force academy in colorado springs. He was delighted by the community response. People came out in droves. And i love the fact that the barber who said. I'm trying to get my kids to be a part of this so he could not only contribute his services but encouraging others to support the fundraising effort. I mean i just love good good news. I wonder how long it took because his brother talked about having debris his hair and help wash. This took two movie cycles when they return was hysterical. Didn't have a great head of hair. So what's going on under the radar Well every year we take a genre of literature and just dive into it wholeheartedly. So this year we're looking at young adult What's known as a fiction because people don't know that fully half of the audiences are adults because they're great to be the audience at what i think. One of the reasons. The audience has expanded is at the people telling the stories That those authors have expanded to in their vision and the kind of stories they tell we have some authors of color who are joining us to talk about their stories and they cross all sub-genre so why a book can be fiction it can be nonfiction. It could be mystery. It can be science. Speculative fiction romance all of that It's just a delightful conversation with these authors about how they were drawn to write targeted to this audience. How you know. It's tricky to to write for that audience when you're older. Yeah and and also. They're aware that half their audiences adults book club thing. Yes of course. I have well we. This is part of our bookmark. The under the radar book club. That's part of our regular segment on under the radar. But i also have a personal book club. I've been part of. It's the second series doing two book clubs Yeah second oldest. What black women's book club in boston. You're kidding no. How old is it thirty some years old. I haven't been in it thirty years. Stop there people know. Hey you're the one who traveled one years ago. Yeah i always refer that. I'd joined it after it had been established sometime ago so we only have a few seconds left. But i wanna know what you do. If you don't like the book to suffer through it no no no. We don't play that. Because here's we argue about it. But here's what happens in our book club you you mean for the air on my personal and your personal life and our personal one we you can only recommend a book if you have read it and you come to the table to our club doesn't mess around. You have to be able to describe why you think this is a good book for us. And then in our discussion we can have different viewpoints about it but you have to present it and you have to have read it. But they'll do that less. Nice say the other part. What if you get a book that you don't read even though it's also recommended. We have really good discussions. I love my book club discussion. The somebody is always saying something that i wow. I didn't think that. I mean it's and we've had a situation once a year. We invite guys and for visitors meeting and we picked the guy. That's going to facilitate the conversation. So we've all come in. This has been one occasion where we hated the book and the facilitator was able to turn us all around. I guess we miss the whole point. It keeps you know that now fooling around his club. He just knew that. Thank you also do. The question was not. Do you have a club at how many how many well i will say that. I have a card for pretty much all the libraries on martha's vineyard thank you many continents crossley. Crossley get sunday nights right here in eighty nine seven. At six o'clock you can subscribe to her under the radar podcast on itunes. Follow her on twitter. At callie crossley coming up. Our big fat gay olympics media maven sue. O'connell is here to talk about the historic lgbtq representation at the summer games. Keep your dial eighty nine seven. Gbh boston public radio. Welcome back to boston. Public radio joining take for her. Take on the social norms of an abnormally abnormality. Excuse me the day is media maven sue. O'connell co publisher of bay windows and south in news and contributed to current on nbc l. Excellent nec hello media maven. Good day my friends. How are you on the spine friday. Well we it's a beautiful. Data's not raining. So we're very happy king. Richard's farrell time. You so so so kind. Let's talk about the olympics and the lgbtq community. apparently the good news is that Olympians would rank fourteenth in metal wins if the lgbtq were a country. Doing doing pretty well. But i guess the bad news. There's another story from cnn. That says that yeah maybe more olympian to identify as as as lgbtq but there are limits to inclusion so. Give us the scoop yet. yeah. I mean it's hard to think of all this pomp and circumstance and think of our beloved openly gay athlete to our leading our teams and getting medals. Both the united states and for other countries But you know we have to also remember that. Sports has been very heavily. gender norm d- event like for at least the past as long as i can remember and as long as we can go back in history so the idea of ben being able to be figure skaters and women being able to be wrestlers is is also sort of a fairly new concept and people who are lgbtq throughout time have often been have a hard time overcoming those stereotypes in order to be who they are and compete that they wanted to the way they want to compete. So you know. It wasn't so long ago that people would think that every woman who you know played on the soccer team must be lesbian and every man who was a figure skater. Must be gay and that we've moved to a point where For some in in some countries those those gender norms are not pushed down on people and you can be athlete regardless of your gender expression. Or whether you're gay or lesbian. I mean we had the out game Which was sort of a olympics for many years. That was an answer to the fact that that folks felt they couldn't compete openly as gay people. Or you know especially with men that you know we've got the the gay Football league amateur football league touch football league here in boston. Where people think that some people still think that gay men can't be masculine enough to play football or play hockey so You know there's always been sort of the shelter things that would happen like the out game square where Openly gay athletes would compete. I mean i think it's on hiatus right now but i'm sure it will come back so it's a big deal that this year. There's one hundred and sixty eight. I think openly gay openly lgbtq athletes that are competing according to out sports which is a great sports publication for the community And that's a long way from where it was not too long ago and at the same time you know. The olympics are representing countries from around the world which have various laws in rules about Being gay japan as we talked about a few weeks ago does not have marriage equality right. So you've got athletes who are competing. There who wouldn't would be considered second class citizens in japan. We remember what happened at sochi the russian olympics where there was fear that If you were gay and went as a fan that you could risk being arrested so you know that the olympics. I think that the good part the good and bad part about the olympics is that it ends up being a you know. A a microcosm of the macrocosm microcosm sheds actually representing the world in the challenges that we face as a community And brings them to the national stage. We can talk about it. But i'm very. I'm very proud of you. Know like you been around long enough to know when there were denny openly gay athletes to see the number that are able to compete. Be who they are so. I think it's a moment to celebrate. Follow hopefully you recognize that there are so many Kids who probably aren't entering sports because they don't feel comfortable. There still aren't a lot of people in professional sports and so this helps to change all that but Moving onto a former cardinal defrocked cardinal. Theodore mccarrick who. I still can't get over this. Because when i was covering the emergence of the sexual abuse crisis what twenty something years ago. Now he was one of the most. Outspoken was against this and now in the only in recent years have we learned that he has been alleged of the same crimes that he was condemning and trying to be one of the the saviors of the catholic church at the time but now hits right home here in wellesley and other places in massachusetts. What are we learning. Yeah he's he's as you mentioned a cardinal He was charged this week For actions of sexually assaulting a sixteen year old boy back in the nineteen seventies At wellesley college and he's ninety one. I mean yep and this to according to the victim this went on for for it just again one of these terrible stories right and the reason why it it it didn't have the statute of limitations which has been such a barrier in in many of these sexual assault cases is because Cardinal mccarrick left the state of massachusetts. And when you leave the state It stops the clock on the statute of limitations on this. So and he wasn't. He wasn't a resident of massachusetts. What had happened. You know so. It's just again this. This is It's just such a painful story to keep revisiting which we must keep revisiting and talking about Where again you have an institution and we're having so many of these conversations. Today we're talking about the the situation with the boston police department. And the former head of the union Where where institutions protecting cover people who have been committing unspeakable terrible crimes especially against children. And you know with you. Jared i it just it just hurts every time we have to talk about it yet at the same time. We have to keep trying to clear these old cases out. Talk about them Hopefully they'll be criminal charges brought and then keep working to try and educate parents and kids and institutions. That were just not going to tolerate kids the to be careful and tell institutions that were just not going to allow this behavior to continue. I mean i. I just don't know what else to do about this. Well you know all about the catholic church that was obviously a big big huge problem of so many priests and bishops and this cardinal that were credibly accused of abusing children. But it surprised me so maybe shows you that the cops would have put up with this. You don't think of cops when the patrick rose case i am mistaken but you know what i mean. That's no. I mean. I think i think more so than priests cops look at each other as brothers and sisters the blue line idea that you know we we might romanticize too much Is a real thing and You know the reality is that if the boss if the police any police any law enforcement reported on each other to the degree of the things that they do wrong or cut corners. The police departments wouldn't be able to function right They they cut corners in many ways in cover for each other and in. And i'm not saying they should. I'm just saying that that the the entire police institutions would have to change right and they would come to a screeching halt and they wouldn't trust each other and you know maybe that's what has to happen. The issue about the unions. I mean that pack centurion newsletter. That that the the boston patrolman's association published that was racist and sexist and homophobic and just kept getting published in. No one complained about it right. You know the boston phoenix christopher own. Did it did. It did a great article about eight years ago. So everything has been out there in the open and and i think If one thing comes from the past twenty years or so that we've been going through these these reckonings as we should. Is that if you are in an institution where people are being abused or you're covering for people for not doing their job or for breaking the law It will be your turn eventually so you. You should not do that. Excuse me snacking nuts in between the segments chicago throat asked me about prep which is a drug. A lot of people will take to that is highly effective eh preventing the infection of hiv. Seems to be an epic move here and what the has been stipulated in terms of of offering this drug and treatment for free. Yeah this is an interesting sort of counterbalance to the discussions that we're having about some when it comes to the covert vaccine now. Prep is not vaccine right. But it's a medication that can help People lower their risk of getting hiv and hiv. From sex. i should say it works by about ninety nine percent so it's again not a vaccine but it works in a way like a vaccine and Again old enough to remember when we really needed a vaccine or needed some medications to help decrease the spread of hiv. We have this and it's not being used to the degree that that that public health officials and doctors wanted to be. There's only seventy four percent of people who who would be determined to to should be using it are using it and i'm sorry unless a ten percent of eligible users are using it and of course like the vaccines that we've seen for cove. We're seeing it breakdown among racial and ethnic lines and and it just. Why is this this this tool against a hiv being being wasted and of course the answer is because what comes along with getting. The shot is that you have to doctors appointments. You know any of us who have a chronic illness and have something that gets needs to be regularly prescribed when it runs out the pharmacy won't fill it unless you go see the doctor by the doctor says i haven't seen you in a year and a half. We have to see you in order to fill this and prep came along with a number of things that had to to to go along with getting the medication and people had to pay for that either through their insurance Or out of pocket or in some sort of cost sharing way and that has been a barrier to having people get prep and thereby decrease their chances of getting hiv so the department of health and human services labor and the treasury are now have offered some guidance saying that prep should be covered under the affordable. Care act and all of the other appointments and things that you have to do in order to get prep should also be covered so hopefully this will remove this barrier. This cost barrier from people so that they can Learn about prep. If their doctor decides prep is a good choice for them and they agree they can take it and we can. Further work to decrease The hiv in our communities and across the world. I mean we have the tool here. It'd be great if we could get it into more people silicon. We have less than three minutes to as we say in the business heart out so if i interrupted it's only because we are the clock but i wanted to ask you about this hallmark channel and finally running this history making same sex kiss where it's so exciting. The hallmark channel who has had it the one same sex kiss On one of the christmas shows which i know you guys are big fans of all of say enough. This was part of one of their usual good witch series and it was a series finale and finally the characters joy in zoe had their kiss and now the show was off the air. We'll never see them again. This has been one of those which works out well for hallmark because they get to have their kiss and then it goes away so the people's never going to watch that show again don't have because it's gone. So homework has traditionally tried to it. Both ways you know. They've tried to offer some little bit of gayness but you know it is somewhat conservative But it's like watching a show from the nineteen fifties when you watch the hallmarks. You just close your eyes and pretend that all the characters are having wild same sex sex escapades while you're watching them and it's it's like watching bewitched basically where all the characters would gay in real life but we watch them you know have these very sterile interactions on television. So that's kind of a thumbs up thumbs down the hallmark channel. From what do you mean. It's somewhat conservative. This is the channel that dumps the commercial because it was advertised. That's right that's right. It should have been very burning all across. The you're right. I forgot about. This is the the The do it yourself wedding planner that they dropped because it has to to to brides in. It may freaked out. Yeah you're right back down into to okay me mcconnell. Thank you very much for all your brilliant. You always good to talk to. you know. we're seeing you on. Tv at the same time was very interesting. We could see is happen. I know you're unhappy. That happens to me. I get worried. Because i think i'm supposed to be at work. That's what we call the media the media so you are genuine. Medium takes a lot to the very maven medium havens. O'connell joins us every week. She's co publisher of a and southend news and contribute to current on nbc lx and nec n. Against you so fun to speak with you. Coming up cockatiel. Do's and don'ts the acoustic rooster children's book by award-winning writer. Exander is jazzing up. Gbh is educational programming. That conversation is next on eighty nine seven. Gbh boston public radio. What about boston public radio. Thanks to poet. Educator award winning writer kwami alexander. We're learning that when it comes to a roosters musical range it can do so much more than craw. Alexander is collaborating with kids of a multi platform project including an animated tajuddin series based on his first children's book acoustic rooster and his barnyard band. He's executive producer of the show along with. Gbh's marcy gunther commie. Alexandra joins us on the line to talk about what we can learn from this jazz aficionado of a rooster and more crummy great to have you here so excited to talk to you. Thanks for thanks for joining us. Thanks so much for having me. Well let let. Let's start with with what you're doing with the series from the kids book tells about it. Yes so i wrote this kid's book back in two thousand eight because two thousand ten my daughter. I've been laid off from my job and my home with my kid. My wife was working and my daughter was crying. Alah didn't know how to get it. Crime so i did. What any smart jazz loving poet would put on some ella fitzgerald and i put it on the record player. Who has a record player. I did and i played it and she sang. Mack the knife and blue moon. And i've got you under my skin so deep in the heart. You're really a part of me and my kids start crying. I said i'm going to write a poem about jazz music to explain to my kid. What this stuff. She's listening to his. And i wrote the book about the rooster that starts jazz band with duck ellington and meals davis and and polonius monty and it had some legs and then i i connected with would k. don meyer in marcy h. And and we just decided this is. We're going to make this into an animated series and we're gonna bring all these lovely characters these jazz loving characters together. We're gonna we're gonna. We're gonna teach some we're gonna teach kids we're gonna we're gonna do some social emotional learning. We're going to learn about collaboration. We're gonna learn some black history win learn about music we're gonna come away loving and learning music much in the end. We're going to stop crying much in the same way. My kid did when she was to the arts editor here. I'm especially interested in the music component and the jazz component. How do you find that rhythm and music and jazz. How does that help learning. And how does it help us right now. Well well i think rhythm and rhyme you know and and the heart console and country and and and pop in rot. Can everybody wants to rule the world tears for fears my favorite song. These music connects with us on this like emotional visceral heart love level and it makes us feel something we want people to become better human beings more people to to be able to be active participants in making this world a better place we gotta make them think it i in order to make them think it we gotta make them feel it so we want to have like more empathetic current compassionate loving adults it starts with kids the mind and adult beginning the imagination of a child so i feel like with this show we're going to like create beautiful human beings through the music that's going to engage enlighten inspire empower and ultimately entertain our viewers kids and parents. Yeah i know that's kind of lofty. That's our goal saving the world. No time and we need it in. This is part of your whole allopathy correctly. If i'm wrong like connecting in this case you're talking about music and kids realize and other you books like the one about. The soccer kid was parents. Were separating i mean the the sports angle and the family disruption angle tells about your whole philosophy right in these kids books. I feel like you know. I wanna teach ultimately like i tried teaching for a year. I didn't last last one year. I didn't come back teaching his heart all my friends who teaches i was like i can't do it. They will do. The first years always the hardest but teaching is about teaching about educating. And i don't wanna be. I'd acted my professor in college. Nikki giovanni issues like kwami. You can't be deducted you can't teach you can't right from here you've got to write from your heart and can't right from your mind got right for your heart. Yeah learned a lot and so so my goal is always the teach. And so how do i teach through literature through language through this new medium and television. And i posit that. It's it's it's through the use of concise rhythmic hard hitting words and sounds in leaps and bounds. So like i got a twelve year old kid. And i want her to never to give up. If i say don't give up. She's going to be like. Yeah whatever dad so my thing is dribble fake shoot missed dribble. Fake shoot missed dribble. A shoot myth dribble shoot swiss. I love it right. Yeah yeah and that's the way to make to make poetry cool for kids books. Cool for kids because of course. A lot of those are buried in their electronics. That's it. I mean you you nailed it. I mean how do we. How do we make it all cool for them. And that's i feel like i'm the guy to do it the cool to do it. I know in the past. You've view focused on young boys in particular to to reach them. Are they harder to reach. No i didn't necessarily focus on boys. I think a lot of teachers and educators parents thought that boys are reluctant readers. And so karmi's writing books with boy characters so he must be focusing on boys. But i was writing. I was writing stories about boys for all of us. I think so many times we tend to think of boys is being you know. They don't express themselves you know they're not in the literature. They're not in the books. And i i know for a fact. That's not accurate. Because i was that kid who wanted to express like you want a basketball court and watch these kids express themselves. Listen to some boys talked about girls and and watched him rest themselves. Like we gotta get. I think jerry we gotta give boys permission to show their hearts and i think that's one of the things i've been a fan of so yeah i wanna give boys permission to share. You know their their their emotions. Their thoughts their feelings. And what a what. Great way to do it than through poetry music. We talk in a poet. Educator an award-winning writer. Quicksand who's written so many books. Tell us how you talking about basketball. And boys tell toes about the the book that won the newbery medal award which is a big deal. The crossover tell people about that. Yeah thank you. So you know that book i wrote. It took me five years to write it in a panerabread. Don't know if i could just dead wrote an panera bread and it took five years to complete. Nobody wanted to publish it. I got twenty two rejections. They didn't think polish. It's a novel. That's told pawns. And and so. A lot of publishers didn't think that boys would read a novel that was told through poems and didn't think that girls would read a novel about a boy playing basketball and i of course thought that was crazy. I thought it would work eventually. Houghton mifflin hardcore in boston. Decided they were going to take a chance to publish it. And my editor margaret ramo published it. And of course it ended up winning the newbery medal which is for the most distinguished contribution to american literature for children. Yeah and the beauty of that in addition to the kool gold medal. That i got which is somewhere around here a lot. More kids had access to the book. Now meant that a lot more librarians. Were buying this book so one. Librarian dallas taxes posted on twitter. That an eleven books were missing from her library. They have been stolen and apparently they've been stolen by some boys who just couldn't wait to check it out. They have and they read it and then instead of turning it back in and they raffled the books off two girls to reach now girl wonder eater so so i remember flying down dallas texas and houghton mifflin. That sent me a hundred and fifty bucks and i. I went to the school and surprise. The kids. seventh graders and gave them each a copy of the book. So i felt like oprah you get a book not to mention Dolly parton who. Who has her her library throughout tennessee. And i mean you you you had me at dairy parton who is of your characters. Just tell me a little bit about jerry. Wow so you know. In addition to this amazing animated series that we're developing gbh. Which i'm so excited about in an working with k. Don meyer on the pilot episode. There's a musical of of acoustic rooster. That's going to be going up at the kennedy center. This fall november twentieth. It launches at the kennedy center in washington. Dc and one of the main characters is miss dairy pardon during during the show. She sings this amazing number of i will always love moo incredible. That's great that's great. You're tell tell people how this happened for you. How'd you get on. How did you develop into this huge writer and this huge figure in children's and adolescent literature were you like a little of your little prodigy and when you're seven years old you have a great teacher. What was the deal. No well so. My parents were writers and they were educators. And you know. I i tell people all the time i didn't find poetry. Didn't find books. They found me the defining moment for me. I would say it was when i was three years old and i couldn't articulate. You know this journey. That i'd be on but this is when i know that it happened. I my parents had read me a lot of lucille clifton. A of nikki giovanni a lot of show silverstein and my favorite book was fox. Sox nox bucks. Boxing socks in bucks dr seuss so on one particular day i built a house at my daycare out a wooden blocks so that my mom could see it when she picked me up But this kid knocked over my blocks. And so i went up to him really upset. And i said those were my block. Statue flipped lest you want a quick payback. Better fixed my quick block stack and the kids started crying when my mother came to pick me up. The teachers told her mrs alexander. We have a problem. Your son kwami as arrogant he intimidates the other kids with his words and my mother said thank you teach words so that's where it started. Airdrie i think wow you other than dairy part and you hit it on another sweet spot for me which is I find it fascinating where people's conviction comes from especially in the arts which can be all of all of life of all careers are challenging arts especially because it's so personal but you just mentioned so you just you knew after a year of teaching that it wasn't for you but you persisted through twenty two rejections with your first book. How where did you have the strength to continue on with that number of rejections. But i've learned to become a salesperson in life and again we can tie it back to that that that experience that i had a three year old and the teacher said i was arrogant and my mother said thank you. Teach him to use his words. I i believe that we gotta teach more of our children to be arrogant. And here's what i mean. I am the greatest. Not because i am better than anyone but because no one is better than me and so hockey we teach our kids to feel like they are all that i feel like i'm the man jerry and my hope is that you feel like you're the man and my hope is that you feel like you're the woman marjorie and my hope is that we all feel like we matter and i think ultimately with the series i think kids are gonna figure out that they have a voice and they're gonna they're gonna figure out that their voice matters and it's all going to happen because of cool plan rooster. Who has. yeah we're gonna make smart alexandra. He of course is the prolific writer. Newbery award winner which is like the poet. Surprise your call for for for children's literature so tell you mentioned the greatest people that don't these are all new york times bestsellers by the way becoming mohammed ali. Tell us about that. Wow this is. This is like a quality alexander documentary. I try to. I wanted pretty. No that doesn't know all these great books are out there that they can get for their kids or for themselves. So kind of so and of course. There's a story with everything so whenever you asked me a question there's going to be a story. I'm ready in two thousand eighteen. I did two thousand seventeen identing event in palm beach to palm beach book festival and it was me and james patterson i was reading and he was reading to a group of four hundred middle school kids and he was going on. I and i was going on less well. The night before the organizers called and said jane patterson does he does not want to go on i. he's he wants to be the headliner. He wants to go on. Laugh now so i said sure no problem and i. I knew he wasn't aware of my performances. i put on shows. I don't just read the kids. But i said fine so i went on with with the kids. The kids are out of their seats there. And then he came on marjorie and the first words out of his mouth were. Why did they make me a fast forward to the next year and we did in the vet in palm beach for a thousand high school kids. This time he went on. I i last laugh. Lesson learned his lesson in a year later he called me out of the blue. And said i wanna do a book with you and it really is yeah. I want to do a book on muhammad ali. I've talked to his wife. But i don't wanna do it unless you're going to write it with and that began a a thirteen fourteen month process of us writing becoming muhammad ali and it was a pretty incredible. And he's the master storyteller. He's a knows how to. He knows how outlined books like nobody and and he wrote a chapter. I wrote a checker. he wrote. And we'd just go round robin will one chapter he wrote. I had a little bit of an issue. Where a note. I sit note marjorie and i said you should consider changing this. My dad was like do. Do you know. Jake perez the number one bestselling author in the whole world. But i was like. Hey so i sent him a note and he sent me a really cool note. That said dear kwami. I would never Think of suggesting any changes to your poetry. Kindly jim off. So did you continuing your partnership. After that he you roll with the punches with. So here's the cool thing about this guy this. This is why i work with him again. Why i was so honored to be asked and why. I like the skylight. He made the change he was letting me know. Dude i am the man but at the same time he understood that he was in service to kids into the book and it wasn't about he or me. Wow that makes you feel better about james. Patterson doesn't i mean not that they had any bad feelings about him before. But i mean i like that. That's a that's a great story. Great story. I feel like i mean. We're not even done yet at. My posture has already improved. March out of this studio after talking to you own this world. So that's the goal what we're doing with the show that's exactly parents who are listening right now and they want to get their kids. You are really something tosseh. How you came to eat snails. Chocolate covered bugs in grasscutter been going to ghana west africa since two thousand twelve to to build a library and The goal was gone to this village. Call coco in the eastern region of ghana with a friend of mine. Her name is juanita brittany. And she's becoming the queen mother of a village. There was a big ceremony so she invited me so that was my first trip to ghana. So while i'm there they asked me to. This is in two thousand twelve so they asked me to read to the kids in the school. Well i only have one book with me. Only had one children's book. I'd written called acoustic rooster so they put me in the school now. The school marjorie is this. It's basically an outdoor area. There's no ceiling. there's no roof. No wendell donor. Walls dirt floor. There's a blackboard. And they're a bunch of chairs since two hundred kids and most of them were on the floor on the dirt and the nascar. I'm reading from acoustic rooster acoustic ruse to set outside strumming his bass guitar. He practiced jazz all summer long so he could be a star now every year about this time farmer announced his plan to hold a barnyard talent. Show and find the farms. Best band and i kid. You not jarrett. A rooster walked up beside me literally. It was the coolest moment ever. And so so i ended up going back to this village because they had no other books and they had no library they barely had a school and so i ended up going back multiple times to bring books. Good for you will. In five years later we opened a library and a health clinic. So i don't know if. I answered your question but i think i think after that it was no problem meeting eating snails and the grass cutters are what. What the heck you okay. Listen you great if you. He talks like he writes or writes like he talks to even more jealousy. You can talk to the animals if you could talk to roosters and conjure home. That's amazing thrilled to talk to you. The big thrill to meet you. Congratulations on what you're doing on. Gpa can't wait to see it. Thank you all so much. You guys rock. Thank you joining us. Do you thank you so much me. Alexandra a poet educator and award winning writer not to mention a great performer. He's collaborating collaborating with kids on a multi-platform project including an animated television series based on his first children's book acoustic rooster and his barnyard band. He's an executive producer of the show along with gbh. Is marcie gunther. Well thank you for listening to another edition of boston public radio. You can tune in monday. For senator sheldon whitehouse poet richard blanco and michael curry on the latest situation. Our who is chelsea murders. Zoe matthews aidan connolly and mackenzie farkas our engineers john. The club parker our offsite engineers miles smith and dave gold steam. Thank you very much for a great find week. It was a blast. Being with you. If i can just remind people tonight at eight thirty. I open studio lutely or feature. Speaking of children's books the children's book illustrator and artist exhibition at museum of fine arts and she loved the actor. Gabriel byrne myriad role in ordeal plays on intrigues men and he talks about his new memoir walking with joe but his child in ireland. And the difficulties of finding stardom in hollywood task. Everything on my jared bowen obscene monday.

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BPR Full Show: You've Got My Vote

Boston Public Radio Podcast

2:40:15 hr | 3 months ago

BPR Full Show: You've Got My Vote

"Support for boston. Public radio comes from literally farms committed to transforming the way food is grown. In new england fresh lettuce harvested daily in massachusetts all year round. it's the local lettuce locals. Love learn more at literally farms dot com. They hit on boston public radio. Carl massive is made. Nfl history just by being open about who he is. Nasa -fensive line with las. Vegas raiders announced on instagram. That he's gay making him the first active. Play the nfl to be openly with your thoughts on this then sports authority traffic. There's there plus her thoughts on a supreme court ruling backing compensation for nc double a.'s. Athletes vaccination rates in massachusetts are among the highest in the nation but disparities remain especially my hispanics and black people and public health experts urging everyone to remain wary the delta variant which is already causing hospitalizations spikes in cities across america dodger. Kathleen gergen network join us and take our questions and your calls all things covid nineteen. That's ahead on boston. Public radio eighty nine seven. Two gb h You're listening to public radio. Eighty nine seven. Gp h good morning marilyn. Just mentioned the fiftieth anniversary of joni mitchell's blue. Near times on sunday they wanted for great performers including many of her former lovers. I should say commenting on blue by the way fifty years ago in one hundred fifty more years is still going to be one of the greatest degrades. Maybe we should write about iran mesa. Graham nash selfish shy loss of best. Baby i ever had well. He was right in here. Remember that an ak yesterday speaking of news. Las vegas raiders. Carl nassib made history thought people. I'm carl massive amount. My house here in west chester pennsylvania. Want to tell you a quick moment to say that on gay. I've been meaning to do this for a while. Now but i finally feel comfortable enough to get it off my chest I really have the best life. I got the best family friends and java guy ask for Pretty private person so hope you guys know that i'm really not doing this for attention I just think that representation visibility are so important so carlton asset is the first active players. Sure you know this and the nfl publicly identifies gay other. Nfl players have come out but not during their playing days in two thousand and three roy simmons who played for the giants in washington in the eighty s told the new york times. He didn't feel safe coming out. Here's what he said quote. The nfl has a reputation. And it's not even a verbal thing. it's just known. You're gladiators your mail. You kick. But carl nasa is aiming to change all that. I actually hope that one day videos like this and the whole coming out process or just not necessary But until then you know. I'm going to do my best and do my part to cultivate a culture that's accepting compassionate so we're taking your calls asking what this moment means. Eight seven seven three zero one eighty nine seventy s this literally and figuratively a game changer. Not just in professional sports but well beyond eight seven seven three zero one. Eight hundred nine seventy something. I never heard of this guy. He's a big time player. He's a competent. Really good player. Everybody's heard of now you're in loved about this. It was so matter of fact and warm. What's up people among my house here in west chester pennsylvania. I just want to take a quick moment to say that i'm gay. I mean it was so disarming. And and i wanna hearken back to what this guy who else on roy simmons who played for the giants said you know we can't do this Known your gladiators your tough come in the sport that the most violent american sports don't you rugby player. Only one day oops because he was less than great voice the voice for somebody who is a football player and nfl player in the middle of his career to have the courage. Do i think it think a little kids who here this whether they wanna be a football player whatever the hell they wanna be if that guy can do it so can i have such admiration for him and i really think the impact is going to be the trickle. Down impact is going to be huge. I really really what he also said. Sal the agonized over this moment for the last fifteen years knowing that he was taking a uterus. But i mean it's it's it's fairly obvious to say. I think we just think of these most macho things. The nfl the nba cops marines. I mean those people that are like thought to be the most macho with the more those men talk about their heroism. They're great athleticism. In those deemed super macho things. They are going to be very. What's so great about this. Is that the first thing. I thought about when i heard a part of the instagram posts that nasa did yesterday is. What's everybody around him. Going to say The commissioner league who nobody has a good word to say about how beautiful statement the teeny place for las vegas raiders had a beautiful supportive statement with black and silver hearts. Those are the colors of the raiders. The head of the union had a great savings and a couple of at least a few current players. People like saquon. Barkley is one of the best players in league running back for the giants. Much respect braga as he calls him. Tay davis respect my guy ton of foreign place. Julian edelman who sadly is a former player. Awesome moment spreading the love to the trevor project. Very classy movie. I forgot to say that he gave one hundred grand. Nassif did to this organization that deals with these issues and suicide issues. And that's her stuff so the guy i really believe and i hope this is not hyperbolic i think he really changed the world yesterday and a really important way and we want to thank eight seven seven three zero one. Eight thousand nine hundred seventy. I also liked you mentioned to me. He's older now he was a former. Nfl player guy named warren moon. Great player who said i played with several guys who were never comfortable enough to go public. They were great teammates and obviously very talented as long as they helped us win. Great teammates or sexual preference was never an issue. So basically he's saying that decades he was playing in the nfl with with closeted met that she knew where gay and it was not an issue for him. But i forgot decades ago two days ago. There were closeted gay players. Well they're still are obviously but one fewer and i just it and again the off hand way if you haven't seen the video hearing it is one thing seeing his face than the relaxed manner in which this guy does. This courageous thing is just really think really inspired because their thoughts about this about twenty thirty minutes when she joins us eight seven seven three zero one eighty nine seventy from kevin one of our best emailer said. He's trump guy but he's saying this morning not sure this. Nfl guy coming out is newsworthy. Is it that important. So why is it important. Jim ryan well because of exactly what you said a couple of minutes ago. It's the place where he works. It's not. There are a lot of settings and i surely as a straight person. I can't speak dow hard. This kind of thing is with your family. Your friends your co workers. That's their other settings. Let's face it where it's much more accepted. This ain't one of them or what happened. Is warren mood. Said that cades ago and so you know what is. The stereotype doesn't need the gladiators. Stereotype that this guy simmons That i said in the opening of this eight seven seven three zero one eighty nine every by the way if there are others of you who think margin are over. Plan this particularly me. Feel free to give us a buzz and tell us why you think that We are exaggerating the importance of carlton acids Importance and by the way we got a. I got a texas morning about my friend. Michael sam a lot of people think that he was not the person that michael sam was was a player who was drafted who was gay but he never made a roster and the other some debate about whether or not the reasoning ever made a pro roster was because he was gay. There's no conclusion there. But nevertheless i active player in the nfl. Carl nasa from the las vegas raiders. Diana fairhaven you're first on boston public radio. Thank you much gone. Hi hi guys I just think that this is a very critical time in this movement. The pride movement and i have all the respect in the world for carl and the fact that he does what he does and like. You said it's so casually and like also what he had said that someday. I hope this isn't even an issue. We don't even have to come out. And i just am. I shoot ally of the community. My son Is part of that community And i just do whatever i can. And as a matter of fact a friend. And i arranged to have a rally in front of our town hall. Sunday morning And just who are pride as a talent for being welcoming and diane if you spoke to your son says if you've spoken to your son since nasa released this instagram post. No because he went off to class before. I got out of my son and his friends and they're all on top of this stuff and yeah so i i do everything i can is a proud ally and i just think it's very important enough to class so i assume he's in school. A young young person no Takes a technical course right now in computer or something or other. Okay but he twenty six twenty. Six young came yes when he came out to me he was like nineteen and it was three thirty in the morning and he came to tell me. I said zachary. You will be up for that. Because i already knew diane. What time is your What time is your rally. Sunday morning at townhall so maybe people want to join more time at nine thirty so that promptly at nine thirty we'll have a few speakers and everybody beyond with their sunday by ten fifteen to join diana. Her friends fairhaven townhall thirty on sunday. Thanks diane the ask to how old's your son is. Because i think this is much less of an issue among people that are younger. I think kids that grew up. You know kids that are in their teens in their early twenties now even early thirties. It's not like it's a big deal as people that are in their fifty six all issues of discrimination and bias less of deal with young which is the one place. I take hope these days when all the rest of us die out some hope for the future this civilizations a hell of positive note i should say maybe we'll get voting reform dead eight seven seven three zero one. Eighty nine seventy rod from an island. Thank you for calling. Hey how's it. Going percents caller. Thank you. I just wanted to know. Problem always hard to get through. I just wanted to point out When i was living overseas early. Nineteen nineties in australia There was a australian rules football player in robert who had come out that he was gay and at the time you know there was such a difference between being gain straight but because he was an australian rules football player he was the kind of guy every father one at their kids. Grow up to be at that time for the socially acceptable and You know he carried away what you said that it was the kind of guy everybody wanted their kids to grow up to be an after he came out did the feeling remain the same or no. It's it. They overlook the fact that he was gay Because he was such an athlete. The idea that you wanted to excel as an athlete and it was very surprising. It happened that way. But he went on with a very Successful career He was very outspoken. About you know what he was. Just nobody cared. Glad to hear. Rob thanks for what's a surely should be. Thank you if your first great. Thanks for the call does make you wonder what would have happened. If caitlyn jenner Back when she were was bruce jenner on the cover of all the wheaties boxes and the decathlon champion and sort of the idyllic athlete of america. The time had talked about The issues he talked about she talked about. I should say she's killing now in her book. you know i mean 'member 'member but generally everywhere but she's changed the world now too. I mean you know. The some people may not like our politics. She's still run for governor. Shing not done well. In her know that uninformed uninformed you say why is that an obstacle to being governor in america. I don't know. Let's go to vera in binghamton. Vary your own. Boston public radio. Thank you so much for calling i there. Hi there. what i'd like to say is this young man doing what he did means that today there are college and high school and middle school. People young people who are gay who will not think about committing suicide today. You know suicide is a huge problem. community I have a son who committed suicide under different different circumstances however that kind of pain is going to be lessened and not brought onto families because this young man did what he did so We all owe him dead of gratitude because there are going to be young people and probably older people who are alive next week. Who wouldn't be if he hadn't done what he did will really sorry about your son. But it really matters coming from you vera. Thank you by the way. I should have been cleared the trevor probably on a related note the trevor project which carl nasa gave one hundred grand. When he made the announcement he did yesterday's this national twenty four hour toll free confidential suicide hotline for lgbtq youth so On a related note. He put his money where his mouth was. And by the way for those of you. I assume most of you were like me and marjorie had never heard of my actually watch a little bit of football. I never heard of him. He's he's a good player. He's not a he's not i don't know if he's a an all pro kind of player has got a ton of sacks is a really good defensive player training. Can you tell us a little bit. More about him but That's the case. This is from nick and fargo. North dakota jim. Wow nothing nassib story. Anyone thinks isn't newsworthy. Also probably thinks racism doesn't exist anymore either fargo north dakota where huge in fargo. We are fargo. What are the best movies era right. Well and also first two seasons not necessarily third right after the best seasons ever dave. Thank you for calling. Hello dave oh gemin- marjorie. That is correct. Thank you thank you very popular. Glad you got through. What's good things. I wanted to make the point. I told your screeners that it's good but this is happening. It's good that people are accepting it. And you do your. Us do we think. Is this progress. Yes progress but it will never ever ever end and nobody can let their guard down minding my story. That i told your screeners as i have a big sign on my store and auburn it says black slash hispanic immigrant slash refugee muslim slash. Lgbtq we have had multiple threats against my employees. I have one woman who's trying to organize a boycott on facebook and my manager who is gay asked me. Could i please take down as they don't feel say. Wow it's good that people but you know you're living in rural massachusetts. You might as well being mississippi or alabama so that makes sand stand and i think it's great and people make a stand and i think it's great that everybody except they this guy when he made his statement. But don't let your guard down. They're still out there but it's good advice and it's horrible that deer any of your workers are paying a price or that you are dave. But you're doing the right thing and thank you for your call. Eight seven seven three zero one eighty nine seventy five ryan o'callaghan farmer player played briefly for the patriots. I guess according to teresa trish in scituate anyway he wrote a book a few years ago about being game where it was like playing in the league and she says it's a great read. Anyway we are talking about karl nasa he's the first active player in the nfl to be openly gay and say so while he's still playing football. We're taking your calls asking about this historic moment. In american sports the conversation continues on seven. Gbh boston public radio. Welcome back to boston public radio. I'm jim browder. She's marjorie again. If you're just tuning in we're talking about karl massive. Who is a defensive. end for. The las vegas raiders. Los vegas raiders. But they are. Las vegas raiders. He's the first active. Nfl player to come out as gay. And we want to know what this moment means to you if it does in what you think. It means to society at large eight seven seven. Three zero one eighty nine seventy ryan handover. Thank you for calling clairon. Hi jim in montreal of great fans of your show thanks You are the pandemic eleven to two or the hour of Saving from newstalk. Sorry nice here to say thank you. I'm a long-time. Nfl fan sports fan. And i'm thrilled by this. Of course i basically agree with everything else said earlier here and it's a and it's a huge step. I agree with you but for me it it. It further emphasizes in some ways. Of course more salt on the wound on the racial side. That where you know. I mean i'm glad i i almost fell out my chair. Region reading roger goodell's comment. Wow you know this is so gracious and the teams and all that. It's a wonderful. But the way that they locked up and froze out colin cap and point point. I am and the face i mean. I don't know where i mean. I have my theory. You know why. Why is america. And i'm happy. It is i'm proud. I live in massachusetts. You know America's finding and it's wonderful in their hearts the The the place to accept this change and accept Except the morality of loving who you love and being who you are but not at all but hardly hardly at all on the racial side. And my i wanna wanna know what you think why that is and i just wanna to throw out a little Quit theory of mind. let's In in in same sex marriage and in you know and dealing with Game lesbian trans. All that i think Particularly just on same sex marriage and Gay and lesbian people have known. You know people around town. People that i see in the gym or talked to over the years. You know their attitudes shifted because all of a sudden you know their sister special friend or their their their nephew is gay and marrying this nice guy from ohio. And you know it's been it's it's been in the family literally in the family and figurative family and then the fellow at work who they've known forever you know he comes out. Wow that's jim you know. We love jim and Somehow and that's a wonderful thing. I mean that's you know it's gratifying. But on the racial side the inability to even accept on amanpour going down on his knees. You know in front of a flag you know. My father won a bronze star world war two in germany. He cannot he. he's passed now. He could not understand why people came down on capita. You know why you. Why run the kapernick and by the way. I'm so glad chelsea. Our colleague mentioned capper. Nick and the relevance of this before the show on. I'm embarrassed we failed to follow up on it on the air subsequent. I'm really glad you brought it up and to make it worse than some ways ron. It isn't just people like goodell and the the going to say mostly white owners. I think it's all but one owner whose white and the nfl you'll lot of the black players in a league that is overwhelmingly black players. Were not terribly supportive of capper nick. Either by the way so it's not just you know. Racism directed at a guy with courage but he did a lot of standing. I don't i. I i don't know i don't you think part of it though is what ron just said. Is that almost. Everybody knows pretty. Well somebody who's gay. I think somebody who's a black guy. A lot of white people know. Well have a close friend. Someone who's black i know. Don't think so important. I mean. I think that's one of the things i think is encouraging about younger. People because younger people have grown up in a more integrated world. That's why have more hope for them. They've grown up with black kids and their schools a lot and You know even the the white suburbs around boston. You do have Some black kids mecca. Kids kids coming from boston. And stuff like that broncos the great cole who really really glad you made it thank you. Eight seven seven three zero one eighty nine seventy one. Ron mentioned that thing about you. Know i have a gay friend. Gay member of the family member. We said this to sue o'connell before we first started talking to so accountable but gay marriage on the air on our old station many years before the supreme court did what it did and before. Margie marshall margaret marshall. That what she did here at the s j c remember the palm. The new york times used the site to her all the time while minority of people supported gay marriage. Unlike now when it's in the sixty percent sixty plus percent Remember the categories of people. The only two categories is or young people young. Exactly what you said young people and someone who personally knew someone who is gay so it was not the scary abstract notions about how difficult it is to have discussions about race in in mixed race groups. And i think that's that's another one of the problem really. Glad he brought up that point. That is true the intolerance and essentially driving them out taking away his job. Someone also pointed out that it was a fascinating thing that A black guy on his knees asking for peace involving cops black americans and there's a massive nationwide uproar and then a white guys go neon someone's neck for nine black guys neck for nine minutes and there was eventually an uproar but it was obviously thought to be another day at at work for The cops there. In the case of george floyd anyway joyce in cambridge joyce. Joyce i'm child molester psychiatrist oh She have seen many many many Who self esteem is so affected by feeling they have to do something or if they put their. They've been discriminated against We have a son who is Graduated in architecture and he's been working for small firm. One person firm who is at one of the top would always seem to have difficulty He's house Our son is out and Difficulty accepting him and assigning him things and we whenever never clear because he's gifted and consider that both at school and at and its term he's going to be moving to another city That may that may not be as open as massachusetts and we worry because he's so gifted and he's wanting to move forward but he has put on his His transcript. That he is Was a head of the gp movement in in his actual school And you're just wishing hope ev. Everyone who comes out is a few comfortable enough to come makes it so easy. It's easier next person to come out and the people who are discriminatory and And hopefully with that they will they. They can actually ruin. Somebody's life and i just think of doctor seuss's quote There will be a time when Those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind great choice. Thank you for your call to callers have said how lucky they are to live in massachusetts. One caller said keep your from. Was it eighth all or ethyl. Where did he call. I can't remember. He called from auburn. Auburn i'm sorry you're right. One of the ways. Yeah he said you know. Keep your guard up. Remember were state. We're an official in the republican party. Here just a couple of weeks ago said. She was sickened. By the fact that a fellow republican who's running for congress release running for the nomination in jim mcgovern this rick He and his husband have kids and she was sickened by. So you know. We're lucky in some ways but it's also true. That store owner said you gotta keep your guard up even near minority in this massachusetts. Thank goodness i think. Even saw her fellow very conservative. Republicans criticized her. Didn't they got is the head of the republican party river. Now he is not. He's not joan in a car Welcome to the boston public radio. Hey hi hi I just wanted to say that. I am a middle school teacher and unfortunately bullying is still present with regard to people that are gay and lesbian coming out etc. Although far less than when i was middle school. But my hope is that by this Football player coming out that it will reach someone like the bully that You know we'll maybe help them understand a little bit more and also definitely that the students that are gay and lesbian. This sort of macho sport guy is coming out and proclaiming his identity and you know full public. I really would hope to see that would help the bullying. I hope so. Thanks pathetic in a way. But it's true that when somebody the toll macho gonyea. Nfl total macho guy in the nba. Total macho guy like i said in the military. I mean. it's like it's like you. You know if if if if some guy who's in matters. I guess because like i said before. It defies the stereotype globe. Gators guys have gay. Gladiators i guess is. Let's go. we only have time for one more. Paul fort lauderdale. The time is yours welcomed egg. I i grew up in math. I graduated in eighty five at the time. I was nineteen years old. I had an ulcer because those grades in evangelical christian home and it was eating a lot and my doctor said to me. I don't know what's eating you. You know and i eventually came out and i want to remember how far with come. 'cause it's so much easier my niece guy who's engaged to a woman come a long way. My family older family who are trumpers. Who are evangelical. Have a tough time with it. But we've come a long way a lot of times the whole Event it's it's nothing and I think we've come a long way. I think we have a long way to go. But i just want you to know the kids earn pain out there in worry. Hey paul pause before you go. I think he told the screen. Your mechanic mechanic. Yeah i think paulie gay mechanics to come out. I mean hanging. Absolutely thank you guys. I really adore you my and would do here really glad you called straight very much really appreciate the call. That's another big macho career right being a mechanic. That's that's okay coming up. Didn't elite athletes career get derailed by a burrito or a banned substance sports. Trying to join us for that and much more sports headlines include. We're gonna get her reaction to calm nazi nasa. That's right sorry. John eighty nine seventy h. Boston public radio talk an actor. Boston public radio. Jim brady more dragon here. This in studio three in studio three to go for the latest headlines at the intersection of sports societies trying because their training is an anchor and reporter for nbc sports. Boston hate trump is so good to see you in studio hot back summer summer. Okay so twenty. We've been talking to listeners for the last half hour about the nfl player. Caught carl nussiebeh. Who i'm sorry so good. I'm sorry i had closed. I really didn't talk more about. He's like as a player. i was like up. I i heard yes sir of big deal on hard knocks like apparently i don't watch hard knocks when hbo b. o. Film crew follows around a football team during training camp and they followed all the drama and us at this point. It's kind of hard to get teams to to it But the raiders. Did i think when they like. I moved to vegas and he apparently was like kind of like a quote unquote star of the show like he was funny and engaging in everybody liked him so he was like a character. People followed so yesterday when it came out everyone was like. Hey i don't really know if he's a good player but i know he was funny on hard knocks. So can you answer the question. A caller i think don called a few minutes ago and said and if it wasn't my apologies was great. Cole said it's great that there seems to be such except and of course we don't know what people who aren't speaking aren't tweeting saying but from leadership for example in the league from his gene from his own team to. Yeah everybody should turn cnn. That's a good idea. March is on tv. So what was oh so. Many leadership and the infrastructure in the league or celebrating the courage of carl nasa as compared to the total condemnation drumming out of the league of colin kaepernick who had the audacity to take a knee because he was concerned about injustice directed at black americans and police violence why so accepting apparently of one and so unexciting. The other one is calling out the league in one is not this is just someone saying. Hey this is who. I am gay man and i happen to play in the nfl. Let's be accepting. And i'm doing this pride month and all of this but what what colin kaepernick did was taken the. Let's let's be honest. We've talked about this book a million times on this show. Our bryant's herald. Bryant's a book about the militarization of sports. And how sing the national anthem. And there's flyovers and it's like pay for play kind of a thing that's a totally different relationship and that's colin kaepernick saying. Hey this is something. That's wrong. And i feel oppressed and this is someone who's saying very calmly. This is just who i am. So it's very. It's very easy if he was sent saying if he would have said. This is who i am and the league has treated me like garbage or my teammates who have known. This is a problem in the nfl out. We might be seeing a different reaction so speaking of coming out ken. O'brien who's another person. I'm embarrassed to say. I had not heard of rights. This incredibly powerful personal essay in the York time she's a former sports writer for. I think fort worth newspaper and a few other outlets around the country. She's no longer talks about what happened to her. Eighteen years ago that she'd never talked about before can tell us a little bit of old. She said she was raped by major league baseball player. She chose not to name him. She said because one it was just her choice but to she said if i name him then it becomes he said she said. I just want my story out there on the heels of this the stories. That happened a lot with the mets. If we have to pick on one team in particular with sexual harassment and borderline sexual assault issues Within that organization and other organizations in baseball and she said the fact that this is still happening where executives and players and people in positions of power and we saw what happened just a few years ago with the houston. Astros remember the reporter from sports illustrated who had written about a player with a domestic abuse. History she was then she was called out in the clubhouse she was made to feel like she was the enemy not what he was doing was wrong and she said that that just stirred up all of these old emotions and that things had changed and she talked in detail about what happened to her and the peace and maybe this is not the piece of the story that should have stuck with me but it did so. She said she finally tells people about what happened to her her story and she tells two colleagues who say we absolutely believe you but really you couldn't get away said here. It's to not trusted colleagues. Two of her closest friends who are males male male. Who said this and again. It's like this idea that it's the victims fault. Imagine if someone who is seventy or eighty pounds heavier than you is on top of you. Like i don't i don't know how how you you can't fathom that someone who is want something and someone who would be willing to force themselves on another person if you're pushing back is going to go. Oh oh you don't you don't want this okay. I'll walk away. Well then it wouldn't. They wouldn't have raped her. That just infuriated me. Because again perpetuates like and then i also and i don't know why constantly do this but i'll look in the comments and there were so many comments even from emails. Who said i really wish you would name him. You're not helping other people by not naming him again. It's like it's like you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't so she she she names the player and says who it is. Then she's gonna all of these people coming to his defense lingual. I knew so and so and they were fine. They never did anything to me. And what were you trying to gain. Why were you wearing a skirt. Why did you go to his hotel room. And then if you don't name it's like well now. What if he's victimizing other people you. Why aren't you helping them. What if you've left them out in the cold so you can't. This is why so. Many people do not come forward with stories of sexual abuse and sexual assault. Because it's like no matter what you do. Somebody tells you it's wrong and it's really. It's really really upset. So i was there. One would think that we have moment. Maybe it's one thing. Maybe we shouldn't think that we've progressed past this. You covered baseball and time around the same time. I don't remember. Cat not just might be because i worked primarily in the national league in the early part of my career. I think that maybe she it. Sounds like she covered the yankees. I couldn't glean from from the column when she got out of sports writing. Because that's the other thing too like. This woman was so traumatized and she had to avoid because the other part of this story. Is that the player. I told his teammates so one of the star teenage that she covered knew about it and just assume that she slept with him to get a story and really tortured her. The rest of her career would would lear at her in the locker room in the clubhouse and make comments to her so we got to a point where she didn't feel comfortable doing your job anymore. So here's a talented person who was essentially pushed out of a career path by two people who violated her whether it was verbal harassment or sexual sexual assault. Sorry where was i going with this so personally. I never sexually assaulted. But i certainly had a lot of uncomfortable incidents with players where they would call your room or ask you gone on a date or drop their towel or rub up against you or make a comment about how you were dressed and and the way that you carried yourself again. I mean i have that there was a baseball. There was a hockey player. Who when i was covering the penguins. I don't know who it was but one of the players that hey just want to let you know. I'm not gonna sell my teammate out. But one of my teammates is telling everyone that when you left the bar the other night you went back to his room and you guys had sex like i don't i don't know who it is. I never had sex with a hockey player. Like i don't know but it's just it's like. I was the only woman in the traveling party so i was an easy target. And you know this guy kind of stood up for me to the best of his ability and he's like you know most of us know this kind of a jerk and i'm really sorry this is happening to you but imagine like the the the shame in the hor- i had a on the team plane so every time from that point forward that got that i got on the plane on mike. I had no idea who anyone thought of me if they thought it was professional unprofessional if they thought it was just leaving my way through the locker room through the dressing room. It's just it's a really terrible place and this was like the mid-2000s which i suppose a while ago now and i know it still happens. I know it still happens. Because i have friends who are much younger than me in this industry who've had to fight off rumors about sleeping with people that they never you know that all they all they did was just have a conversation with them in a clubhouse or exchange a phone number. Because that's what you have to do. If you're going to be a good reporter you both know your reporters martyr. You needed sources you to get people's phone numbers you have to engage them and then you're at then you're at a disadvantage rates of female and we're still in this area where people think that any female goes out for a drink with an executive or our talks to a player hangs out with them the same way a male reporter does then guess what happens. You don't break stories and if you're not breaking stories and you're not getting information in your career goes nowhere so you're constantly stuck between a rock and a hard place going to read this story a cat. O'brien is the former sports reporters name and it's in the new york times we're talking to and because there except on a related note unrelated note Once again my powers of prediction. Incredible i stated without equivocation. The olympics were be cancelled have been cancelled. The they've not in fact. Now they're going to allow ten thousand spectators venues. Okay any case. When are you leaving. By the way i leave. The morning of july eighteen and windows ten star tennis starts july twenty fourth. such as what is covering. I'm covering so in country like mid afternoon on july nineteenth and then we'll start doing prep work and stuff. Twenty th twentieth through the twenty third and then our event starts may twenty fourth and finishes august. I and i get the door too late tennis great. Well the great part of it. And i'm sure i'll diskette to the story now. Is that naomi osaka. Who's we all know withdrew from the french open due to mental health issues. She has not competing wimbledon for the same reason has said she will represent she's half japanese. She will represent her home country of japan in the olympics. So that will be a massive. We're over there. But i the fact that they tend. They're going to be ten thousand. A maximum of ten thousand or fifty percent whichever is less than fairness the doctor foul cheer the equivalent of dr found. She of japan said they shouldn't have any spectators who are doing it anyway. And you're the one line that put me over the edge particularly after we lived through the experience here this boston. Twenty twenty four was the economic minister. A government official of japan is quoted. I think in a new york times story about how many spectators and that sort of thing the me repeat a government officials says well ultimately that decision will be made by the international olympic committee which was elected by. Nobody in japan will decide about a public safety issue for the people. Of how ass backwards is that. I mean that's what right you sort of sell your soul when you agree to host the olympics and. I think that's why people in boston were so opposed to it. is that it just. It's like a runaway train. I mean even the olympics in a country like japan that is economically stable and has the infrastructure to not have to. You know build everything from scratch like say so ci or a rio. They were already way over budget for this. And they if you pull out and not that the i would necessarily have done this. But they could've sued the country of japan to reap those losses. Because we're talking about billions of dollars. Now i am i mean. Listen i it's going to certainly make it a better experience. If you're at the olympics to have some energy and people but i would have preferred honestly from a safety perspective if they were not allowing spectators because japan isn't there's what like fifteen percent of the population has been present one dose of the vaccine. You're not talking about a vaccinated country. You're not talking about a vaccinated population So even those of us who are vaccinated feel like. I'll probably be okay. Because i'm not really going to be interacting with a lot of spectators. But what if i want to like run to the mcdonalds. So what if. I want to run to the olympic store. I mean i'm definitely going to be masked everywhere they're giving us and ninety five masks which i've never worn but even as a fully vaccinated person. I'll probably be more careful there that i would anywhere else access to the players after a match or will it be no we will we. Will i think the way it's going to work. And i don't know that's a great this. I was telling chelsea before. I met with my producer. Who's by the way it wisconsin native. He went to like a neighboring high school. Like it's going to be so much fun. He lives in jacksonville. Really connect in the tennis world. But peter have a good time. We had a pre call to go over everything at every question. I asked him where he asked me. He was like. I don't know but that's a great question. That's a great question based on the olympic trials. And what i've seen. I don't know if you've been watching the olympic trials at all. So we've actually great like tracks and agree. There is something they olympics are amazing. So what they've done is they've had a mike. Stand with one. Stick mike on it. So the athletes are far more than three feet away from you and then. The reporter is set back with hand-held. Mike so i don't know if they'll have that. Or maybe the other thing i've also seen with some people have now gone back to in person. Broadcasting and interviewing the player will put a headset on. And the with a microphone and the reporter will have a hand held. Stick microphone so that you at least can have that actual interaction as opposed to the impersonality of justice. Zoom do an ask you about this. A shot carry richardson. Because we're so great and in track and field the olympics in this kid. Twenty one years old Sounds like a real hot ticket. Who's an incredibly fast. And she dies her hair different colors before every race. She's got our inch and blue and all these different colors. So she's like. I mean the way to compare the female you same bolt right. She's really fast. As one hundred meter dash and i can't believe like so i went back and watch the race because i didn't see the final where she won with a one hundred meter dash of ten point. Eight seven seconds which is just like you watch her run and it's like it's so it's such an incredible at such a short distance. So she finishes she hugs. People she goes up into the stands. You hugs her grandmother. Then she comes down to interview with louis johnson and she is still so auto breath and i was like of course you are just ran like faster than the wind. I mean it's she's got. All this brash and charisma she's twenty one she's only five foot one. She's pretty like low to the ground. Which actually usually you're spread a little bit taller and lengthier and like leggings. But she's got like these long fingernails and these long eyelash. She died her hair orange. So that look like fire behind. I mean she just. Has this really great personality. And i just love to have. I don't know if you guys watched her post game post race in lose johnson by the way like every four years. I'm reminded like what an incredible a he is as an interviewer especially in that fluid situation. So she's talking about how she goes up and he thinks he's she's speaking to her mom her dad her grandmother and she's talking about how important our grandmother is to renew. She said. Yeah because my biological mom died last week and she just goes through with it and he said i'm starting to say you lost your mother last week. And she said yeah and she said just you know it's all about putting every piece of energy into the ratio so composed. She was tearing up but she kept herself together and she was so overcome with just this like array of emotions but to see her channel that she by the way was kind of at the back of the pack coming off the starting blocks for that final race the way she excelled. I'm getting chills. Talking about the way she accelerated past the other competitors. That was the thing i saw. Unbelievable secretary it in the belmont their neck and neck for one then she just off was like everybody else was walking through mud and she flew pab. it was really i really enjoyed. I mean i'm certainly not fast like that. But i've really enjoyed watching the running like it's i laugh track with the girls i with every tuesday and like our eight hundred is what like a male athlete runs. Four hundred on a really good day. You like to scope out your superstars so you can follow them the olympics. He's be like what. Am i going to go out and file. Do we have time to talk about overdue. Reto we get the ncw. Scream court dow. Okay i just had the burrito situations like. I don't remember sorry about yes. This is a mother tracking the track and field. Who blamed her houlahan yeah. She blamed her drug failure test on meet in a burrito. Okay i have a real hard time believing mess. Like i want to because there were a number of okay so at first i wanted to give her a little bit of a benefit of the doubt because she does with lane flanagan so she's part of the bauer men track club which is Out in oregon. It's i think it's a nike nike sponsored training. She's a distance runner. I think she's like ten thousand and fifteen thousand meters so like ten k. fifteen k. Had a chance to go to the olympics and then she ran a race was drug tested afterwards tested positive and said well i got a burrito from an authentic mexican truck that us like the innards of the pig and so which has like these hormones in it and i was like okay. Well maybe like. That's something that could happen. But then when her lawyer filed it bubble lawyers said it was a carne asada burrito and really swayed me back to the other side that no way. This woman does not deserve to compete. Is that athletes. That i really have gotten to know just a little bit not a lot but just a little bit and really respect like molly seidel and does linden signed a petition to the us af to say because they almost backtracks what happened was she was banned. She appealed and then the us was like well. We might let compete. And we're going to see about a couple of things they were like. No that's not how it works if you appeal and you fail like we can't be making exceptions. Because someone is really good at what they do she failed at. She failed that multiple times. Repeal failed multiple times so no she's also she's now banned for four years. She will miss this olympics and the next day. I can't believe unsympathetic if you've never had a bad experience after eating a burrito. I've had i've had lots of none most revolve involving the bathroom. This real about said we don't have time for this. But how about the armenian skaters skier escaped qualified from the twenty twenty two Winter olympics because of a wrong a false positive covid tests so he missed the trials and they can't compete in the damn olympics is an issue that they do with obviously. Kobe is gonna be with us for a long time right like this is not going away. They need to figure something out so that if it does happen. There is another opportunity. You screwed up automatic bid kanat our fault you so we only have a minute and a half left. Nc supreme court unanimously. I can't believe i'm saying this for a these words did the right thing. Big time Basically slap the hand of the nc double a. and say education related benefits scholarships boats that sort of thing can be provided to athletes. Does this open the door down the road to payment shirt the stars. I mean i honestly hope so. I the very least. I feel like athletes should be able to earn the money based on the jersey or football's or something that has your lake nece on the nc double a. Makes money off of all that for themselves and for the head coach's but so i heard you talking about like a saquon barkley or switch. Come back jones like mac. Jones goes to alabama. He's the quarterback of ultra national champions. And who knows how. Much money ala bama beat off of that but he sure he can maybe cash out of the nfl but there are certainly players who don't shine in the nfl. The way they did in college never have a chance to was of course that you wrote the decision. Whoever decision i think was gorsuch said something and i'll paraphrase like tell me one other business that makes billions of dollars and pays the workers who generate the billions of dollars absolutely nothing. I mean she used to close. Here's the quote from cavanaugh. Thirty out of nowhere else. Business american businesses. Get away with green not to pay the workers. A fair market rate on the theory that their product is defined not by paying their workers a fair market rate. So good did order. Free things amazon prime day today. But i do hate it. That's fine so nice to see you. Thanks for your will excited about going electric trying. Every week she's an anchor and reporter for nbc sports boston and bp our contributor a lot trying to cause narrow coming up dodger catherine gergen by net is here to talk about all things covert from vaccines new various. Keep your dial nine seven h. Boston public radio march. He can he listened to boston. Public radio eighty nine seven. Gb h our number. two again. jim. Hello again marjorie. So there's more talk these days about getting on the other side of the pandemic while we've had it with cova. It is not done with us. There of course is the delfa variant a more aggressive and contagious form of covid that the unvaccinated among the risk of getting vaccination rates are fizzling out nationwide and parents are grappling with keeping kids. Who still can't get vaccinated based on age. Save joining us talk through all things. Corona virus is dr catherine gergen burnett. She's the vice chair. Primary care innovation and transformation and residency director in the department of family medicine boston medical center and be medical school. Dr barnett is with us. She has been practically monthly throughout this. You can reach her with your code related questions at eight seven seven. Three zero one. Eight hundred nine seven and we recommend not asking for extremely personal medical advice. Because that's something obviously. Only your own doctor can help you with dr greg barnett. We're actually looking at you change. It's great to see owning exciting wonderful to be with you and get to see your faces. Hopefully next time in person wonderful so let's start with the dreaded local angle doctor. How are we doing in massachusetts. What's the state of affairs. Well actually i would say that massachusetts is probably the least shredded local angle. You know i think that. Probably most people have been tracking the course of our Vaccination and and you know as we know months ago we were among among the worst and that we are among the best. We are actually third place right behind vermont and hawaii in terms of our vaccination rates And we actually have seventy percent of eighteen years at an older are fully vaccinated And we also know that our cases are dropping and then our guests are dropping In our hospitalization rates are dropping But you know to your Beginning of the hour that the top of the hour we heard reporting about tracking the delta variant and recognizing that this is not just something you know massachusetts the united states is going to have to contend with but obviously it's a variant of concern for global community. Can we stay on the dealt with thing for a second is for those of us who are vaccinated. The seventy percent plus in massachusetts in rates are pretty high. In new hampshire and rhode island new england is doing spectacularly well compared to the rest of the country is the delta variant of threat and for those unvaccinated. How much of a threat is it. So i let me start first with the vaccinated people. We actually are seeing really good. Data that both visor madonna protect us against the delta variant with high efficiency For both shot so it is really important for listeners to recognize that there is data coming out that if you've only had one of those two shots you're only about thirty three percent protected so that's a really big gap and i think argues for why people should be going out and making sure that they get their second back saination. I know there has been conversation that we've had on the radio before and certainly It is you know conversation. That's happened globally in terms of whether you start with one and wait for your second i think the delta variant is arguing that we should very much Make sure that we get two shots. There's last reporting on the johnson and johnson vaccine for the delta variant. But you know that research is also ongoing with some initial promising data and then for the folks who are not vaccinated. I would say this is probably if there weren't yet already enough compelling reasons to get vaccinated. I think this is probably Hopefully going to top the cake for people because as we're hearing this is incredibly contagious. Variant It is becoming you know just a couple of weeks ago or even last week we saw it was about ten percent of our cases. Were delta variant. And now it's up to you know thirty three percent So for those who are not back stated it is absolutely a risk And this is what we saw coming out of india so we saw that devastation was happening in india and this is the variant that arose From from those number of cases and deaths That we saw. I think probably last time i was on with you That were the greatest concern. We're seeing globally or number's eight seven seven. Three zero one eighty nine seventy. We'll get to your calls in a minute is staying in massachusetts or sort of saying as oppose the places like mississippi were under thirty. Five percent of the people are vaccinated. Which is it's almost like a suicide wishes. Far as i'm concerned is the major issue. In your estimation dr gergen burnett in massachusetts. It started being hesitancy. It seems to me access is the issue that we're grappling with at least addressing and less hesitancy the numbers of people in our state. I guess i'm trying to say who are hesitant about. Taking the vaccine is very small does point is it not. I would say absolutely that. That access has been a bigger problem than hesitancy in our state You know and we have done a terrific job addressing Access in terms of making sure that we're now getting vaccines out on mobile vans in community health centers in places where people can access We know that hynes convention center had his last day yesterday. so lot some of the mass you know serve Mass back sites are starting diplo's down that being said i would not underestimate hesitancy. I think it's still really there. I am still joining my colleagues and lots of community conversation around questions that people still have around. The vaccine is safe. How do we know that science isn't just kinda putting us through You know some sort of testing process had we know again. There are still questions. People have even a question. This arisen less so in massachusetts. But it's still there is at magnetic Does it make you magnetic vaccine make you magnetic make does it put a chip in you. Those are not things that are obviously not obviously but are not as common in terms of conversations to have or things to work through but they are still here in massachusetts And and i would say you know boston. Medical center where the honor of working in a community that has a lot of reason for medical distrust. We are still really unpacking. Medical distrust And kind of thinking about ways to partner with people so that they can continue to trust not just the medical system. The vaccine some kohl's eight seven seven three zero one eight hundred nine seventy dr catherine gergen barnett from emc and bu medical school is. We'll take your questions jeff upper. Thanks for calling jeff. Thank you very much for taking my call sure. My question is For nursing mothers. Who had already had the baby before they got vaccinated. Are they passing along the immunity as well they. They are gaining after being and with those kids that need to be vaccinated later as well. I'm jeff i'm so happy you ask your question. I wanted the things that is really Bid on my mind is a family medicine. Doctors the fact that first of all we haven't included a lot of pregnant or nursing. Mothers in clinical trials means that were catching up on this data. the good news is we now have enough women who stepped forward both who are pregnant and nursing who've shown that it's incredibly safe to get the vaccine and not only. Is it safe for the pregnant woman but in fact this vaccine works very much like other vaccines were passes on sort of passive antibodies to the baby. While they're there you know in utero and then the initial breath the comes out which we call the classroom which is full of all kinds of very good. Antibodies For babies also has antibodies for the covid vaccine but a dozen pass on. You know enough. Antibodies to keep know the child protected for a long time. So when those vaccines come out and they're proven to be safe and they're you know under emergency use authorization that we will also be asking for children to be getting those axioms even if they were breastfed Or had mother who got the vaccine when she was pregnant. Jeff thank you for your call. We appreciate it. here's a email from carey. Who is it possible or worthwhile to test a two year old who has a fever and is displaying low energy for covert kerry. Thank you so much for your call. I don't know if that's a personal call or just a medical call But i i would say yes. It's both possible and it's worthwhile For us to cast anybody who has any sort of symptoms on of being ill any sort of respiratory illness especially for two year old who we know won't have been vaccinated this point. We see all kinds of display of different symptoms Especially for children and despite the fact that there's lots and lots of data that children don't get as sick they do get second. There are lots of you know. I'm a good case studies showing long-haul covert is what we call it with long-term effects of Having had covid a as a child and and in and many other kind of inflammatory. So yes please go get your two year old tested. You know in a related email. John wrote and says so. When will vaccines wonder vaccines expected for kids under twelve and he also as could the doctor gives us an update on others and win where we are in that research. Absolutely thank you john So you know we are certainly Pfizer madonna A her you know as well as other Vaccine companies have been working very hard on putting together clinical trials for twelve and under You know we have been talking about late summer early fall. I will say that there has been some recent concern. I'm sure many of the listeners have heard about this where This idea of myocarditis Where covert seen In in some young men An older man Which is basically an inflammation of this or sac around the heart. Which causes some chest pains shortness of breath. Completely reversible with high-dose anti-inflammatories in predators zone And also incredibly rare so At this point we're still seeing only a handful of cases The myocarditis and and the american heart association actually just came out. And said you know please please. your vaccine It is much much better to get the vaccine not vaccine And the reason i bring all of this up is because my concern. I think a few of us were concerned. Are several of us concerned that this would slow down the trials for twelve and under But i think that's less of a concern now So let's hope for fall for those vaccines And then i think there was a second part of the question. What's what's the latest on the booster. Both the need. Yes so the booster is actually being tested now. in and big trials but specifically for people who are organ transplant recipients and who have shown not to have high anti body From two vaccines and were getting a really good data that those have gotten a third shot or having a high kind of spike in their antibodies. great news. And i imagine you know again. We're we're trying to see how long these vaccines last in people's systems. But i think at this point where Seeing that it will be likely that will have a booster probably annually And similar to the flu where we have to really think through what are variants. That are coming down the pike. I think we'll have to I keep saying we but you know people who make vaccines we'll have to see what the variants are And and make boosters that are specifically targeting that and that that they're already making those for the delta variant and what we call alpha variant which is a uk variant etcetera. So those things are being manufactured. Currently we're talking to dr kathleen gergen by nut. She is the vice chair of primary care innovation. Transformation residents director at boston medical center and be used and be you medical school We have another phone call by the way. I want to get the number again. Eight seven seven three. Oh one eight nine seven. No you can reach us via email at a. b. p. r. a. w. g. b. h. dot org. We've another question about kids from tori holding. Thanks for calling tori. Hi thanks for having me on and thank you for taking my question. I've been asking everybody. I know what their opinion. Of course but we are set to go to a family wedding east in august in florida and unfortunately my entire family is in the wedding intrude including all four of my children and they are all under five for their durable group but they all are gonna get a wedding and we do plan on sharing mouth. But i am. I mean we're all fully vaccinated as are most of my family but the wedding is not You know it's not making people wear masks so we are just a bit nervous about their risk especially with the delta variant growing and Kind of thinking again like you said. About how sick do children get. Or if there's any new data showing how About that especially in young young children tori congratulations on the wedding and having so many beautiful children who get to be in the wedding. That sounds really fun. I we actually. I just came back from a family Bar mitzvah so in we have younger children too so had to think through some of this data and i agree. I think there's really kind of a wide spectrum of of information that's out there You know terms of your children absolutely. They need to be wearing a mask You know especially the the indoor portion want people are close. I imagine that the wedding party If they're all vaccinated will not be wearing masks and that is appropriate from the cdc guidelines. That being said you know by august. I think we're probably know more about Just how possible it is to get the delta variant even if you've been vaccinated so there might be new or guidelines that are coming out in terms of Again really keeping up the social distancing and the other kind of non pharmaceutical measures that were recommending for people And and similarly. I would just recommend that for you and your family. Is that even with the kids wearing masks. That they're washing their hands. And they're not getting too close and They're picking their wedding food their wedding cake and eating it outside So you know. But i think probably the same safety measures you'd use here and i imagine While not positive but that your children are in school and have had to Think through some of those pieces In terms of how they say so I think that you should be at the wedding and you should enjoy it. But take lots of safety precautions. Who tori before you go to describe your own children as an adorable group zone show. Yes she did. Yes yes yes there is. I have a five year old a three year old. And then i have identical twin. Who are almost two together. We call them little duckling. Got a great attitude for probably being tired tori. Thanks for your call and good luck at the wedding. We really appreciate four under five. That's that's a lot. That's keeping eight seven seven three zero one eight hundred seventy. We're talking to dr catherine gergen barnett. Who's taking any all of your questions or concerns about covid nineteen. Jj you a great piece in the boston globe about why we should continue wearing masks in certain situations post pandemic and i was thinking about his this weekend being out and about and actually going to a couple of parties. Tell us what you said about that. Yeah thank you marjorie. So so my you know my piece really concerned. What are we. were so ready to. Just get rid of our master. Why did we actually learn about mass. And where have we seen it. Blocked transmission And specifically you know obviously we've seen it as an important public health measure for covid. Nineteen but i use really looking at data of flu from this past year and Rsvp which is also a very contagious virus that hospitalizes and kills lots of kids and adults and people. Just don't talk about it. I'm so glad to go ahead. Well it's respiratory virus. I mean it's not necessarily and lets you had someone in your family that's been sick or your physician and you've care for somebody who's been sick with. Rsv um it's not necessarily something that comes across your desk all the time But it is you know it's similarly can really affect the airways And so what we're seeing. You know what we've observed. Is these incredibly low numbers of flu on an rsp over this past year and as a result huge trump and deaths from these two really preventable viruses From things like wearing a mask. And so you know my my argument. And i really used for the analogy seatbelts right. Because i think as a as a country were so good about thinking about autonomy and not wanting to kind of burden herself with any extra piece in order to think about keeping herself safe for another person safe And yet we now all follow seatbelt rules right and we and we wear seatbelts even though is not convenient took years to get instituted so the idea is that. How do we actually get some sort of public policy public health policy where we're thinking about the future of mastering flu season so when you are in crowded places when you're in an airport or concert or a sporting event So that we can keep flu paces down An rsp down. And then the other piece. I would just say there's been a lot of recent Coverage on how we actually anticipate that the flu cases If we don't wear a mask and we sort of keep Businesses normal will be way up this year In part because our immune system is going to be down from from you know sort of having to contend with it at all And we may have far more deaths from flu this coming year than we've had in years past so how do we actually prevent that and finally finally learned from some of our Hard one Lessons that we've had over the last year and a half. Let's go to pat in lynnfield. You're next on boston. Public radio with dr catherine gergen burnett welcome pet marjorie my I've been vaccinated Polls how when. I should get the because you know i maybe more systematic because i've been fascinated. So what the thing that send me. Hi pat thank you so much. Yeah so so great that you've gotten vaccinated and as you probably well know two weeks after your second vaccination. You are Very well protected against kobe. But to your point you're not one hundred percent protected and if you do have kobe the symptoms can be very much like a cold So i think i you know unless you're just gonna be staying in your home and not being with other humans i i really m- advising people And and i think you know. Public health officials are also advising people to go get tested. Put your your mind at ease. Put other people's mind at ease You know cold is no longer just a cold anymore and The great news is that these are really fast. They're officiant now. They're easy to get like so much easier than when we first started talking and they're covered by Mostly covered by insurance. If you have any symptoms so I wouldn't hesitate to get it Just put your mind rest but good luck in speaking of tests doctor before we take a quick break. They're now starting advertise the ad home test. Cbs and a variety of pharmacies. How reliable are they yeah. I haven't actually looked closely at the what we call sensitivity and specificity of the test. I think they're quite good in part because that the technology of test is not that complicated But again i think you know it's a matter of equity and health equity. And how much are we having. People pat a pocket For something that other people can't get out of pocket. So i would just again. Just say if you if you wanna spend money it is. It is a pretty good test than i can come back to you with some actual hard numbers go quite sensitive but i would also really encourage people to go get the free test in their community. We're talking to boston. Medical center started. Catherine gergen barnett. We'll come back shows. She's going to continue taking questions and yours up until almost the top of the hour. Keep you dial eight thousand. Nine hundred seventy h. Boston public radio. Welcome back to boston public radio. I'm jim brown. She's modrica tuning in. We're talking to dr catherine gergen. Arnett dr gergen barnett is vice chair. Primary care innovation and transformation residency director in the department of family medicine in boston medical center and medical school. She's with us until almost the top of the hour. She will take any of your questions or concerns about the coronavirus vaccine at eight seven. Seven three zero one. Eighty nine seventy you can send an email to be. Pr a. w. g. b. h. Dot org where do you wanna go marjorie in hudson. Don thank you very much around with dr don high high so i called in about five or six weeks ago. The topic of the day was had to convince people to take the vaccine and adjusted. We ought to publicize figure out and publicize. What percentage of people who are putting the hospital from covid or killed by it. We're not fully vaccinated. You were pretty enthusiastic about the idea. So i wanna ask dr cook and head. Do we know that yet. And if we don't want we find out and if we do talk about it more great thank you for calling back i love. I love the continuity of So so well we. We certainly have very good data on the correlation between vaccination and risk reduction of being hospitalized and getting sick And you know that data is is incredibly strong on. we know that again If you've had two doses of moderna pfizer or the single jane j. that your risk being hospitalized goes down substantially to very low And as a result of of that we are on having you know incredibly few numbers of people in the hospital now which is just unbelievably wonderful. you know that being said there's not a lot of data published about the heads in beds so the people who are actually They're in the hospital now whether or not they've gotten vaccinated and you know and i'm sure it's not hard to get but again i i don't Punt the most compelling evidence in part because we do know that the vaccines actually do prevent deaths in hospitalization And so i'm i'm hopeful that that continuous Data that we push out the messaging we push out Is compelling enough. I think as jim pointed out In some states absolutely not compelling enough. And i think the messaging that we need to get from local leaders and people that That other folks trust Need to continue. Push that message out. So i really. I really appreciate your call on. And and we'll say that the data is is there Terms of correlation factor on things. You know i'm just seeing that is just breaking story about a about a Manatee county florida where two people are dead and four. The co coworkers were hospitalized after covid. Nineteen outbreak swept through this government building. And it said That of the six people infected five were hospitalized. One employee was in the hospital died. Another employee was not hospitalized. Dot died the only exposed employees in the it office who was vaccinated did not get infected so just another story about off the press. Yeah i just newsflash this. And i thought wow you would think especially with these kinds of stories and this and this delta variant so forth that people would be getting nervous about being vaccinated. I don't know i you know. I never liked to have people make decisions based out of fear But i feel that the data you know especially the fact that our rates are going so far down as vaccination rates climb. is just so compelling And and absolutely those small case studies are coming out all the time marjorie in terms of who's who's getting really sick And and dying and and who's not And and i i again i go back to. Unfortunately this vaccine has become so political and certain states and and how do we break the politics of public health And i think that's really hard nut to crack you know. What are you finding to be the by the way. I am fine with motivation by fear. I should say so far back. I don't give this story in the globe yesterday. Study suggests covid nineteen harms part of the brain even in mild cases out of imperial college in london and and the national institutes of health. Not peer reviewed yet this relates to the loss of smell and taste. And that sort of thing. But it's not insignificant. Is it absolutely not. I mean i if again if if you're losing your life and or or being severely ill in the hospital. Whether or not i think brain shrinkage i should be among from alabama. Don't let fear motivates you doctor. I'm not. I'm richard scary. I know my you know and and actually this idea that this may be permanent right. Yeah and and again it's There are a lot of people who got sick with absolutely no fault of their own had so much death and destruction over the last fifteen months again through just really poor kind of federal planning initially in a lot of other pieces But now people have a choice and they can actually do something For themselves and and i thought that was also very compelling data About the volume of the brings your physician. Non-politician i i had been very upset about the lack of mandates and that that We just got an email from a gentleman who says i think it's a gentleman. Do i need to be concerned. About catching corona virus from a co worker. Who won't get vaccinated. We work in a small office space. I am vaccinated though I think the chances are small for the vaccinated person but still. That's a lot of stress to to work under every day. Yeah yeah yeah i know. And and I think you know as we've seen the very like different offices in different universities are doing a different way of of rolling it out whether it's mandated or not mandated The president of indonesia just came out and said it's midst mandated to get vaccinated on and so and yet i agree we're not seeing enough kind of Federal responses on through through many many different countries You know some places like india. You know they just vaccinated Eight point six million people yesterday. So they actually. I mean that's talk about good news right. I just to tell us when. I read it but they because they didn't have the vaccine until you know really recently but we we've had it and we're sending off millions of doses And you know. The top of the hour talked about biden having seventy percent goal by july fourth. And and and we're not going to get there And so There is a certain time where I think that probably you know as this whole pandemic has rolled out is really been state by state. And we've seen that That state Officials will have to make really Hard decisions about what. What's their hardline. Yeah and happily massachusetts were were passed that and we're gonna be okay but You know there's some states where i think the leadership is is really not behind it at all and it's and it's gonna kill people which i shouldn't be answering the email because i'm not a physician you are so this person that said he's worried about getting her. She's warning about getting corona virus working small office because they're next to someone who's not vaccinated. They are so how worried should they be. And you know. I i think the best thing they can do is again. The fact is what they've already done is getting themselves vaccinated but they are at increased. Risk right because the person who's not vaccinated could be Absolutely more easily transmissible And again we've talked about it. Several times i vaccine not perfect So i i guess i would recommend and i'm hopeful that this person's office space is doing it but they have to wear masks when they're in awful. I worry you're going to get into the conversation about man. I am so out of my mind over the lack of mandates in response will i just can't employers and get it to me -rageous. Let's move on sandy and framingham. You've been very patient. Thank you very much for calling. i appreciate it. hi sandy. thank you for taking my call so i had covert back in january and just two days ago. I had my results. I took a blood test to see. If i still had my anybody's which i do My girlfriend who got the vaccine. She recently had tested as well. And we had the same Anybody grumbling so why. I'm just wondering why. I should have to get a vaccine. My my whole family had cova. Dad god bless them with eighty seven. He was fine. Ralph finally lucky. We've got sick but it was nothing major So that was my question. Yeah that's a great question Sandy thank you for your call. I i you know the first thing. I want to clarify for listeners. Because i think that This whole question of getting your. Antibodies test is not something we routinely recommend. But if you are going to get your antibodies tested for instance if you have an autoimmune disorder and and you're worried that you know or your provider is worried that the vaccine didn't work. There's a very specific kind of antibody tests. You need to do which actually is testing for the spike protein and not for the crow team that you normally would check for. Somebody actually had kovin so they are in fact two different antibody tests. So i'm not sure If you got the exact same antibody test That being said we are if you have had covid nineteen. I'm ill we are still recommending. That people get the vaccine because it is More closely like we can actually characterize how much antibodies you get for the vaccine where we can't do that reliably for people who are getting sick so you may have gotten the test but very few people are gonna get that test and we also don't know how long those antibodies last for when you are naturally ill versus getting the vaccine and we are seeing people who are being vaccinated. Those antibodies are not only more robust but they last longer So those are the arguments to get the vaccine Even if you've been sick with covid nineteen hope you got it sandy. Thank you for the call and good luck family. Eight seven seven three zero one. Eighty nine seventy npr. W cheap dot org. If you wanna email kurt from medford thank you for calling curt hi there. Thanks for taking my call. sure My partner was diagnosed with cancer in october. And he went through radiation and chemo. You finished his ki. Moon in mid april and we waited a month for some of the chemo to at least leave his body before getting him vaccinated In mid to late. May we're hearing a lot about um statistics saying that. He may only be thirty to forty percent protected. Therese with the ducks will say about how we should treats treat right now. Him in terms of going out into public. He can wear masks but a mask your tax people from him more than him from other chemo. What we shouldn't do about that how to move through this. Thank you for calling her and I'm sorry that your partner has been suffering And glad that he's done with the chemo So i think your your call really a perfect follow-up for sandy is call in terms of thinking about you know what are the situations in which they antibodies levels should be tested So so your partner Really should you know again Work with his him. Hematologist oncologist about seeing what his level antibodies are. Because he may have had a very robust Response we're seeing Less robust responses reliably less robust responses in people who are transplant patients and not so reliably and people who are Recovering from treatment for cancer. So i think that's probably the first coin and then i think you know similar to a lot of people who You know may have weakened immune systems for a number of reasons. I think you know keeping your partner. Making sure that he is wearing a mask And is not with people who are displaying symptoms But the mask is not just about protecting other people. It really is to protect him So obviously you know going back to the basics of mass getting a well fitted mask and and One that is you know comfortable. And then he can breathe through. And and i'm a big fan of those surgical masks. is a will actually protect and But you know doing the other mitigating factors in terms of trying to see people outside and Keeping him engaged though because as you know the mental health consequences of not in people especially when you're recovering from cancer can be so devastating for both the call him with dr catherine gergen barnett doctor. This is kind of a selfish question. So but what the heck oh my show at least half launch show by show my show coming but you know you talking about noon. Responses and stuff is a great variation. I the madonna vaccine. Lock people in the during a vaccine got very sick for second shot. I felt nothing. Nothing nothing so you wonder if you only person who found nothing so you wonder if people like me should go out and get the antibody tests because maybe my the person at gillette stadium is giving me a placebo. Something i mean. She's upset that she wasn't sick. Days some people. I mean nothing. Some people get really sick. And you think do i have is my drove a non functioning immune system. Or what's the deal. Did you hear me say at the top of show. No personal questions. I guess you missed that part jesuit. Who don't get any reaction. Should they be concerned. Yeah martyr. I have a warm feelings for you and i don't mind answering for you thank you. It is nice third time. I've heard this from larger. Sorry you know you know what i. i think. You're actually asking the fashion for who may also have had does rides. So you absolutely do not need to go get your levels checked. You can feel rest assured that even if you didn't feel really crummy stay that it did work. Everybody has a different set of side effects But everybody that has been tested through any kind of you know are rigorous testing also huge surge of antibodies. And your body was just being kind to you. Why is that though. Why that you've heard about people. Having fevers their is killing them. They're aching they can't sleep. They had headaches some people. I even know someone who was act to their stomach and throwing up and then somebody else's nothing. what's that about. well i obviously. It's not apples to apples. That i think people would say why some people get such terrible morning sickness and get also sick when they're pregnant k. And some people don't right and justice sort of the way the body is reacting to to whatever is going on for them and and some people just react differently and but you never if you don't have know symptoms of being pregnant but you're still pregnant. You don't doubt that the pregnancies okay. I never got morning sickness many children so that the reason okay. So you got your exact same question. That's because everything delight as say. Let me just say dodger. Physicians on speed dial. Mr hypochondriac over there told doctor doyle saucer thanks calling. Thanks yes marjorie. I agree with you. my question is and i. Don't i hope this doesn't upset you. i realized after the first shot fighter that it was not given to me in the deltoid muscle off read Basically i wasn't talking. I was reading like a month later about you. Know how. I read all the clinical trial info and where it should be inserted and i read. I think it's from england. I get more information from the guardian. And what's going on in england And that there was a big Article in fact had a photo. Excuse me oven are the correct place to give the needle and then the wrong. Which is the lower fabio part and it was funny. 'cause the night i had it. I'm poking around my arm. Like i can't even feel where i have the needle at all and the second shot was given right where it should be so my question is because of this concern even spoke to five there the people they said they never did Give any of these in clinical trial in the doctrinal. The correct term. Stop something. the up savvy. Part of the arm is called the sub. Whatever whatever it is good. Yeah in any way The article says it's pretty much useless. It's not given the deltoid pfizer said they didn't do any studies Giving a shot and that part of the arms so they can't comment but some doctor in england said when these kinds of shots to give and if it's in that other part of the arm it's useless so you wanna know if you need another shot cindy right if i can. It's great to. That's a good question Well i would guess first of all um cash such a great question so I will say that you know Adviser doesn't have good data for you. I certainly don't. But i would say that part of the reason they do it. And the deltoid is because that's where you know We generally give shots in the muscle because it You know it's. It's a bigger part of the arm and it's better received and You know it's not because it works better in the muscle. it's actually going into the bloodstream. So even if it goes into the fatty part of the arm it's still going to get into the bloodstream. Do i know the rate at which it goes through the deltoid versus the fatty part of the arm no i don't have that data I will say that. He can't be so operator dependent. We're not driving an entire vaccine You know train in this country based on whether or not somebody gives it exact right place. I would certainly guests that you are not alone And and i would say that getting into the body is the most important thing I i. I think that you know i. I could certainly see if there's any other kind of clinical trials that have looked at other places of injection But i am not. I'm not super worried that you're not vaccinated But again i don't have data But i can't imagine You are alone. And i and i would think that it's still goes into the body effective way. Cindy good luck. Thank you for your call. We got an anonymous tweet. Someone wants to know. They got a second dose of modern doctor and they had no reaction whatsoever. Okay okay yeah i'm fine. I never had morning sickness. I'm grateful i'm grateful for your call time for me. Thank you for calling hygiene gene gene hygiene. Doctor jean on hold will if we have time. We'll try one more time. Where are we going over there. Eight seven seven three zero one. Eight hundred nine seven. Talking to dr catherine gergen burnett was kind enough to give us a lotta time monthly to answer your questions including yours. I think it's caitlyn and was there. Welcome to the show caitlyn. Hi oh hi. This is katherine in worcester. Catherine i'm sorry hi katherine how are you. It's okay. it's okay thank you. I'm wonderful. thank you Doctor i think you answered the question Three or four calls to go. But i'm a little bit concerned my entire life off seventy years. I've been plagued with allergies eggs. Mer hay fever asmar some years. They were all those and this year. I'm sneezing up the storm. And i work in a hospital behind the scenes so i really don't have any. You know a lot of contact. And i work remotely three days a week. But i've been sneezing a lot lately. And i'm just wondering i've been vaccinated since january. I'm just wondering if i should be singing. Allergist do i need a covert test. I'm fine it's just. I know the sinus headache. i know my symptoms. You know. I know my body and thank you. I mean i i would. I would say You know there's an expression in in medicine that when you hear Hoff's coming towards you that you know. It's usually a a horse and zebra so as you are if you know have allergies and this feels just like their allergies. I'm guessing it. Easier allergies are take the medicine you normally take. And if that's not working for you contact or you know that being said I would again if the medicine's not working and you're still persisting with some of the symptoms. I i never think about idea to get a kobe test. I think that is again. Something that we thank. Goodness have very easily in our back pocket now so i probably pursue both roots at watts. Foul hope you feel better do look. Hey we live minute left. Dr one last question. What have you personally found in your practice or heard from your colleagues is the most persuasive argument for people who have good faith concerns about the vaccine is opposed to those demented political politically motivated. Concerns works on those people. Yeah kibe time to really sit down and have a conversation and really Listen listen to people. Listen to the concerns and address each thing one thing at a time and my Experience and i know my colleagues experiences that times once. All the questions are answered and people don't feel just pushed into something or rushed into something. They're much more likely to be vaccinated but let me just say a medical degree. But i've seen probably more doctors than you've seen in your life. Dr catherine and you're the only thing that works. Fear scare the we'll donder triumph. Martin goes doctor. We you're so generous. Salami really appreciate it. Thanks so much and great to see him on. Zoos yes next month in person. I'd be great. Wait about catherine greg. Burnett is the vice chair of primary care innovation and transformation and residency director in the department of family medicine at boston medical center and boston university medical school and we so appreciate her time and her expertise coming up one year. After george floyd stash. We look at his stomach. We look at systemic racism in america by way of a new book with a very different perspective by elizabeth hinted she story in that conversation next on eighty nine seven. Gbh boston public radio. The boston public radio. Jim brady and marjorie get in her. Latest terrific book thin reevaluates the history of black protests against abusive policing throughout the decades. We've seen how these protests have been mischaracterizes riots and in ways. The police aggression in mob violence against black people seldom has it's titled america on fire the untold history of police violence and black rebellion since the nineteen sixties. Elizabeth hinton is an associate professor of history in the department of history and the department of african american studies ale also professor at yale law school elizabeth in great to talk to you again. Thanks so much calling in. Ain't you so much for having me. I'm thrilled to be here to talk to you too. You have a thesis in in your book about what's really going on between cops and african americans that never occurred to me and it seems pretty new to me as well so tell people what it is so i think we have often seen re understand community responses to police violence as being As starting with the community rather than with the police and when we look at the history of these incidents from the the protests in the nineteen sixties to the present these these incidents don't begin in communities they begin in response in reaction to some form of policing or some form of directly violence or incident of brutality end. And this is what. I call this cycle of a police. Violence where residents understand experience various policing strategies as violent in themselves and then in turn respond violently which elicits an even further more aggressive response on the part of police. And so we've been stuck in both this. Literal cycle of police violence lynn community responses to that violence but also a policy cycle where the solution always becomes more policing. The solution becomes the increase of surveillance. An incarceration in prison. And that's in part how we became The large home to the largest prison system on the planet eighteen was within one of the lines that stays with me in the book is part yours. Park james baldwin. You quote me. Say police moving through the ghettos of america and then you quote baldwin like an occupying soldier and bitterly hostile country. I'll tell you that really nails it. You also talk about that there are riots and there are rebellions and that how you characterize protests makes a huge difference. What is the difference. Why does it matter. He asked to let me just that baldwin code quotas really important because it gets to the fundamental logic of american policing from the very beginning right from from the slave patrols in the antebellum period and the indian constables who policemen patrolled indigenous groups so the president and that is that the purpose and function of policing and racially marginalized communities among racially marginalized groups is about surveillance and social control middle class suburban white communities. It's about protecting property from outsiders. And so that's why you know. Baldwin perfectly captured that dynamic that's why it's an outsider coming in and there's fear and mistrust on both sides An understanding the kind of larger socioeconomic dynamics they give rise to these conditions which policing is only one expression of a whole host of socioeconomic inequalities tied to employment opportunities tied to lack of educational opportunities housing and the the ways in which funding our funding is allocated for these resources in low income communities of color creates the kind of cocktail where a police encounter or an incident of police. Violence can lead to an explosion and rather than recognizing the larger dynamics at work here in the conditions that give rise to the encounters that can become deadly or be or can erupt into political violence in the first place in labeling this political protests as criminal as meaningless than the only solution becomes the police instead of actually saying. Okay you know. What are the reasons why people are responding to police in this way. How can we rethink governance in general. And how can we rethink our policing strategies. So that we don't continue to repeat this cycle in these patterns. But you seem to be saying it's not that it isn't just rethinking obviously. Correct me if i'm wrong are the policing that almost misses the point to a degree that the underlying causes that have got to be dealt with not to suggest. You don't worry about policing it might not right about that now. That's completely correct. And i you know that's not even my idea. That was the recommendation that the national advisory commission on civil disorders or the kerner commission put forth in nineteen sixty eight president. Lyndon johnson called the commission in the middle of the unrest in detroit in nineteen sixty seven to evaluate the causes and the solutions to preventing the the kind of continuation of so-called rioting that had rocked hundreds of cities during every summer of johnson's presidency in the current missions. That if we're really serious about dealing with these problems of really serious about her tailing rebellion in the future than we need a massive investment of resources into low income communities of color we need The public sector in the private sector to together mobilized to create jobs for low income of low income americans. We need a complete overhaul of public schools and we need to guarantee decent housing for people and instead these recommendations were ignored and we could only imagine what the us would look like today if that kind of investment had been realized instead of the investment which was which is of course in the you know in expanding police forces and eventually than in expanding the prison system in this country you know you mentioned the credit report commission report. Sixty seven and there was an eloquent quarter. I'm not gonna read the whole thing but from Governor governor auto kerner who who chaired this commission. Who said this is our basic conclusion. Our nation is moving toward two societies. One black one white separate and unequal. And you know. I think it's fair to say that things have not gotten much better since nineteen sixty seven. Your who the vice chair. That commission was by the way brooke. Ralph ill senator. Obviously from masters elizabeth hit in her book is america on fire the untold history police violence and back a black rebellious the nineteen sixties. You've got dozens of examples of this interaction between police and the black community. Most of which. I think i'd never knew about. It can pick a couple that kind of illustrate your thesis here so in one. That really stuck with me in kind of leaves leaves throughout the book is the story of carole illinois. A town on the southernmost tip of illinois basically the south you know it's in the midwest but basically the south town of about four thousand people throughout the decade of nineteen sixties black residents who were just under the majority were completely locked out of political and economic power had embraced the nonviolent direct action protests the civil rights movement ordered to desegregate public institutions school systems than to gain political and economic power and the the the white establishment there the political and economic elites there quickly partnered with the police department and vigilante groups to essentially rain terror on the black community who eventually bought back in nineteen sixty nine beginning in nineteen. Sixty-nine groups of white vigilantes would stand on the mississippi le'veon's shoot into the segregated all black pyramid court housing project. The point where little kids had to sleep in bathtubs because gun they. They feared gunshots. What could kill them in the middle of the night. I mean this is an we. Think about talso. Just commemorated the hundred year anniversary of tulsa but is an example of how this vigilante Bob violence ran through political and economic institutions. Also endured into the nineteen seventies. anna protracted essentially battle between black and white residents continued in caro- wok residents arm themselves. In self defense as did many black americans in the in the later half of the sixties is kind of a major transition within the the the kind of ethos of civil rights protests politics of nonviolence to one of self defense when protections hadn't been Insured and an alongside this kind of violent response also launched the boycott of white stores in the downtown district. Because they said well. We're not going to patronize white business. Owners going to buy bullets than shoot at us and kiro was really exceptional in its violence but also a warning to all of us that the of the kind of dangerous of holding onto racism white supremacy because ultimately rather than give black residents in cairo concessions rather than meet their basic needs rather than reallocate resources. The the white power structure the whitest advertisement decided to go with white supremacy instead and as a result the economy of kiro tanks. Those stores that had been boycotted by black residents. They are closed and kiro is now considered a ghost town and this is really kind of a warning to all of us about the dangers of the entanglement between white vigilante and supremacist violence And and and police departments that can that can really kind of can rain terror as i said on a community but also bat when when when we cling to white supremacy all of us suffer as a result and and race. Racism is bad for all of us as many activists said looking back by the nineteen eighties. Racism killed the town That's the voice of elizabeth. Hinton is american fire you should really get at the untold history of police violence in black rebellion since the sixties you elizabeth coming return to the kerner commission thing for a minute because again i i knew of it but i didn't know nearly as much as i learned from your book about it. Fifty plus years ago war on poverty which everybody knows about a year later war on crime and then johnson himself appoints the kerner commission. It comes out with a report which he totally ignores. And if i remember correctly from ever read your book few weeks ago doesn't even mention it or some such thing. Why if he cared enough. Maybe didn't why if he appointed to choose to totally ignore recommendations which again were spot on a half century ago. I think you know. From the perspective of johnson and many other liberal policymakers the kind of radical restructuring that the kerner commission had proposed went. Too far you know actually reallocating resources to completely transform. Conditions in low income communities of color was not A set of policies that johnson even amid the war on poverty was willing to support. And i think that we historically have seen a real resistance. On the part of officials at all levels of government from supporting policies that that can potentially disrupts the racial hierarchies that have defined the united states. Historically do you not worry. I mean we talk when you were on. Tv with a couple of weeks ago we talked about following up on something. We said a few minutes ago about how the police reform while well in a lot of it well intended doesn't cut to the core of the problem one of the things that makes me even more nervous since we all say. We're in time racial reckoning. I'm not sure we are. We theoretically are should be is if something miraculous of george floyd justice and policing act were to pass it probably will not but we're at it. I worry that a lot of well-meaning officials are going to think we did it. We finally did it and then either turn their backer. Ignore all the stuff. That is the only thing that's gonna fix. This am i being unduly pessimistic or no. And that is the lesson. I think of this book and also my previous book is that we really need to move beyond reform. The george floyd justice actors is a is a kind of baby step but as we've been talking about and again going back to the kerner commission as the kerner commission recognized these problems go beyond the police. The police you know. These incidents of political violence tend to erupt as a as a after a police encounter because as the frontline representatives of the state in low income communities of color become the most tangible expressions of systemic racism. And so you know we know that things like body cams don't necessarily lead to greater accountability on the part of police. We know that things like banning chokeholds. Don't end police brutality and facts the four officers. Who beat rodney king said. Well we used our billy clubs because chokeholds were banned In los angeles and we also know that more trained police more investments in police again. This has been the response to critiques of policing strategies than police violence since the nineteen sixties. Don't get to the root of the problem. What we need to do is think about re conceptualizing public safety empowering communities and again how we can how we can make sets of investments Beyond the police that will that that can truly make communities safer. I mean one way to think about public safety is that every child in this country should have access to a decent meal every day you know that radical thought was with him that everybody should have access to healthcare that everybody's basic human needs should be met in that is what safety truly is. Unfortunately i think there was this moment in the nineteen sixties where we could have pursued that kind of policy path and that was lost and instead replaced by the. You know this this this real turn. Towards an embrace of incarceration policing as a solution to manage inequality and racial discrimination. Either couple of things. You've talked about that really kind of stuck with me one It was not what you talked about. Something we saw in. Ken burns film. We talked about the vietnam veteran. Who came home was from roxbury black guy from roxbury in uniform. Logan airport can't get a cab back to roxbury because he's a black guy. You talked about You know the expectation of veterans black veterans from world war one and world war two that they were going to put their lives on line for their country. You know probably been roic. In some cases that they came back thinking something was going to change for them. And of course it didn't was going to change and then what we saw you know in in. Both periods was a resurgence of white mob violence. I mean that's the other thing about the terminology that we use that you know that that most of the rioting throughout us history Has been advanced by white. Vigilante mobs hostile to integration but also hostile to the new rights that especially returning black veterans from world war one in world war two. Were starting then course. You know the the vietnam war contacts and the and the veterans who are returning home. We're getting ready to be deployed and more learning new scripts than who are who are who are being trained in new ways. Become a real source of fear on the part. Of the part policymakers in also especially through the figure of the black sniper that i talk about in the book seen as being responsible for for urban unrest and rebellion in in the late sixties and early seventies. I'm sorry go martin and the other thing is that you point out that peaceful protest. Don't get loved attention and you know early on. The civil rights movement wants to tension with the peaceful protest. That turned violent when the cops showed up with dogs etc but at the same time though even the twenty twenty protest black lives matter as soon as there was. The first window shattering in in a store was like oh the purchase of become violent and it still use as an excuse for heavy-handedness and a lot of white people think yeah. Go get him so. That's the dilemma. Yeah and that's actually a really important distinction between really the protests since michael michael brown in ferguson in two thousand fourteen and last summer is that unlike the period that i'm writing about in the sixties and seventies than even miami nineteen eighty in a. in nineteen ninety two all the protests from ferguson onward have started peacefully rice started useful vigils started at non violent protests and again. This is the the key aspect of the police's role in all this. It was after police responded to that non violent protests with tear gas and with their batons and by arresting people in mass that some of the demonstrators than started breaking windows starting setting fires etc and this follows as you said marjorie that the kind of the the tendency that whenever people are protesting racial justice including you know civil rights protesters in the nineteen fifties and sixties the responses will. This is criminal this violent and you know these people should be arrested. Because they're they're breaking the law by by demanding their rights and equal justice. You always within when you were on tv with a couple of weeks ago. I hope you this description doesn't upset you. I asked you a question in particular where your head practically popped off. Som- asca two again. 'cause you're on zoom and i'd like to see i wanted to get your reaction if people didn't see that to win. Hillary clinton was running for president and was defending her husband's crime bill which she sported from nine hundred ninety four essentially saying black people wanted. They wanted more police. We gave them what they wanted. What was your response again. It just so maddening to me because of all the things that black people have demanded and been demanding. And you know it's a it's a pattern. We know what people want they want jobs. They want better educational opportunities. They want access to property ownership in decent housing many all of these and they want better policing it's not you know i mean it's not it's a reality that especially in low income communities of color problems of violent crime and homicide are particularly acute. And that's maybe a different discussion and so people want safe communities. They want better policing. But that's not. What policymakers here instead they you know they hear more policing and they you know the jobs and the the investments have yet to calm but the investment in again incarceration in in police and surveillance. That's what they get. And so it's just it's it it it misrepresents the rich tradition range of black protests To say that somehow oh well. This is the system at work you know. Black people protested for for more police than you know what we gave it to them. Well okay what about all the other things. Black people have been protests in port for centuries one laissez is meals with. Lots of us have thought. Well maybe no because of boycotts or or more woke corporations at least now on the surface woke things are going to be different corporations. We'll we'll take the lead and some of these things but you pointing out based on something. I think back in ninety two of the crips and bloods in la that we should not put too much. Hope inc's why not you know we've seen historically that in these moments when it might win. It seems like it's good. Pr for corporations take a stand on systemic racism. You know like last summer you go by kaya box. The aunt jemima pancake mix aunt jemima 's smiling beautiful face no longer there. I mean so this is this. Is this what we got from. Those protests in corporations acknowledging systemic racism. That's great for pr. But the question is how are you going to change your policies and practices. Are you going to take the lead. In making different kinds of investments and creating job opportunities in and meeting the demands in in the areas where op government authorities seem unwilling or unable to and that remains to be seen. I mean what we do know is that a is that these declarations tend to be fleeting and then when the moment passes corporations move on. They're not sustained is within. I was hoping we'd have enough time to return to the conversation. You and marjorie. You're having off the air prior to this interview but sadly it's on an unrelated topic we don't so you will have to connect your private. That's all i can say. Your book is spectacular and is must reading and we really appreciate your time today. Thanks thank you very much. Pledged to elizabeth thank you. Elizabeth engines associate professor of history. The department of history in the department of african american studies at yale university. She's also professor at yale. Law school the book which you really should check out is america on fire the untold history of police violence and black rebellion since the sixties coming up seen as john king is who the glow of the latest message from out of washington. Dc keep your. John eighty nine seven. Gbh boston public radio. Welcome back to boston. Public radio jim brady and marjorie in joining us on the line on a really big day in the united states senate to cover the latest political headlines as c. n. n.'s. John king john courses chief national correspondent and anchor of inside politics. Hello there john king. Happy tuesday big day. It is a big day. So we're we john in this big day regarding this vote on voting rights in in congress where where things stand well we know exactly because they're still negotiating the look the democrats are gonna lose tonight. They're not going to have sixty votes. It'll be surprised if any republicans vote. Yes but there. There's no way at least based on anything Here on planet earth. At this hour we're ten. Republicans are going to join the democrat so the democrats are hoping just to have all fifty democrats. Vote to try to advance this bill. That's sweeping bill. It's not just voting rights. It's got a lot of other election stuff in their campaign finance Some policies about redistricting and drawing maps dc statehood There's a whole bunch of things in this and So they're trying to get your mansion on board just so the democrats can say we had at least fifty democratic votes which would then not make it a law because you need sixty to advance the debate but would make it more of an issue. A for the midterms. I think the bigger question is when this goes down tonight. And it's not going to this. This bill will not make it to the floor for debate. is that it is that for voting rights Because as you noted more than fourteen states have already enacted restrictions to make it harder to vote Will the democrats back with a smaller plan. Will they keep bringing this to the floor and force the republicans to vote no over and over and over again And what does it do in the democratic party where you have a ton of tension right now Not only over this issue but all the whole biden agenda and the progressive agenda is lined up behind this vote. Today and behind the infrastructure decisions have to be made and so this is going to affect not only the debate over voting rights but the mood in washington and particularly the mood within the democratic party whereas all kinda tension between progressives and moderates and a lot of progressives now mad at the president they think the president should be jumping up and down about this bill every day and he hasn't been. Yeah i'm gonna get to that in a minute. Because i saw you had congressman jamaal. Bowman always have cnn on in the studio during your show a little bit ago. I don't quite understand. We're reading that. Mansion has not announced how voting this afternoon is this ego driven or because he's still trying to cut a deal on his narrower version of what what exactly is up with him. I may have to have dr freud call in with the rest of this. He's right after you actually so it's not necessarily. Yeah i get snarky about this. Sometimes but i think it's all of the above jim. I think he genuinely believes and he's from west virginia. So he's from a much more conservative state than sure presley or jamaal. Bowman You know or warren for that matter and so he genuinely believes that when you're doing big things like health care like voting rights and then it's best to do them on a bipartisan basis. So if the other party tastes control a year down the road they don't come in and try to you know we don't have this yoyo or you know constant ping pong of changing positions on issues. I i get that it's a. It's a valid argument In today's polarization the question is. Can you make that work. Some of it also. Is he disagrees with some of the campaign finance elements of well what was h one. Hr one the house bill and so he's trying to get a commitment from the democrats that you're voting to bring the senate version of that to the floor. Mansion says he will vote to bring it to the floor for debate as long as he has promised that the democratic leadership will then quickly propose an alternative That he agrees with that takes out the takes out some things. He doesn't like an add some things that he wants and so they're still negotiating over that so. I know you're so sick of this question. You can't see straight so bear with me. We've been friends for a long time. Kristen cinemas piece in the washington post this morning about why. She can't vote to get rid of the filibuster i. I read the piece in the hometown newspaper in west virginia about ten days ago. Where where Mansion senator mansion says he's not voting for the for the people act nor is he going to break the filibuster. And here's the part you're sick of. I don't know if they are living on planet. earth. There is no bipartisanship anymore. I admire the notion for strategic and other good reasons that it'd be wonderful of good things that matter to people in this country are done in a bipartisan way. It's over it is done. Hopefully someday it will return. So are they willing to be the people who essentially Because they are democrats and other complaint on mitch. Mcconnell the republicans. they had the democrats. Who will decide whether voting rights protection and these other things you talk about liver die today in the future they acknowledging that at least they're no i think they acknowledge To the degree that that things may not get done because of their position. Yes they do. Acknowledge that now. You have to go issue by issue. Cinema is on board with the big voting rights right. He's a sponsor a mansion is the issue there Cinema does not want to abolish the filibuster for other things down the road And well she. She doesn't want to filibuster on this either. Even though she's sports the underlying legislation right correct. Okay correct she does not want to. She believes she thinks it's bad. Look and again it mansions politics. Trump wins west. Virginia by six hundred and fifty points. That's an exaggeration folks. It's a joke but trump west virginia big west virginia michael dukakis carried west virginia. It used to be a democratic state. It is more so you know again. You can disagree with joe manchin. You have to understand the politics of his state. He's in a tough spot. Arizona's a lot more interesting because good hold on for a second. He's not in a tough spot he's been in the senate for a million years. He's an older guy he could do the right thing and not worry about his reelection. I john to be. I feel like marjorie. I liked being interrupted. Because this debate. Right i mean i feel there was a great guy a serviceman that was on television. I think it was on cnn. Who he was a cop and he police car capital police guy right. Whatever any veteran of iraq afghanistan and he said you know. They won't do what they ask us to do every day we're going. We're putting our lives on the line. Then when even put their jobs online so i don't i don't i don't think he's in a tough spot i think i think he's unbelievably selfish. Well i well you raise a key point in the sense that there there should come a point for everybody and i just had this conversation with you guys a week or two ago about republicans in the january six commission and you know making donald trump mad at them As at some point you would hope that principle trump's politics right and you know they're all politicians right so politicians sometimes are going to quote unquote disappoint us or disappoint the purists. That's going to happen. But you're absolutely right on voting rights as a foundational element of our democracy number one but it's a foundational part right now. The democratic agenda all the more so because of what you see these republican attacks on voting rights in the state. So i completely get your point that. Why won't joe manchin man up if you will put principle ahead of his home state politics and say i may lose at home. But i'm willing to take that risk or i. may you know. Make everybody at home mad at me. But i'm gonna cast votes. It's a great point. He he has said he will not and he has said he will not because he says the broader principle is that you know you have to do things with bipartisanship The point i was making about cinema is that arizona's changing joe biden just one arizona and there are a lot of democrats. Say she doesn't have to be worried about this. That by the minute arizona's becoming more diverse therefore more democratic and the republican problems in the suburbs only exacerbate that because you know suburban voters around phoenix and tucson that used to vote republican have abandoned the party under trump. She thinks her state could swing back. Some she also again thinks this is a matter of principle that on big issues bipartisanship and she likes to model herself after john mccain republican obviously. She's a democrat but she's very independent minded democrat again i. It's not my job to agree disagree with them but they both make the case there. They are willing to lose on certain issues even on big issues to defend what they believe is the more important principle all the progressive colleagues or saying. You're nuts The filibuster is not more important than voting rights. Filibuster is not more important than the climate crisis and so on so this is the tension in the democratic party right now and it is. The water is bubbling bubbling. I anna presley your congresswoman from right up there Sent a tweet today. saying it's time to stop negotiating with the insurrectionists differ her breath. We're getting furious by the way he has not been sent forever. He's only been there since two thousand. I just checked. It was governor before the day. Seventy four years old. He's seventy four years old you know. He's looking at is president ten years so we're talking to john john john before we leave this you mentioned congresswoman presley's thing is a as i mentioned congressman bon in your noon. Hour is the issue Don't negotiate anymore with the insurrectionists as presley call them but you also mentioned that bowman was concerned that that biden is not been vocal enough on this. What exactly is the concern. The progressives believed that the president should be talking about this all the time and congressman mondaire jones. Also from new york tweeted out this morning. Where's the president essentially That's not exactly what he tweeted. I'm paraphrasing but that's essentially. Where's the president. Why isn't the president talking daily. Or why isn't the president traveling the country or why isn't the president using the bully pulpit to harangue republicans and say how can you not vote to expand voting rights That's the view of the progressives. And so what i ask from. I think this is what. Let's have this conversation next tuesday and the tuesday after through the infrastructure debate and some other big issues. That are coming up You know the progressive agenda is gonna hit a dead end in the united states senate. There simply aren't the votes there. In the republicans believe voting. No is their best political strategy for twenty twenty two so at what point. We always talk about the fifty fifty senate. Well nancy pelosi has only a five or six vote margin in the house. At what point does jamaal bowman and mondaire jones. I enter presley alexandria. Ocasio cortez ilhan omar. There's five right there And i could list five or ten more progressives who are with them on most things at what point do you get five or six democrats in the house to say fine we keep getting screwed in the senate so no no. We're not gonna vote on the smaller infrastructure plan if biden cut to deal with republicans. No we're not going to vote on a scaled-back pick your issue. Let's say try to scale back voting rights bill or scaled back. You know climate bill. Will they decide. Okay the senate can block everything. Well we can block things to you. So is there going to become a leverage fight if you will within the democratic family progressives the progressives. they're they're newer younger members for the most part. I'm ed markey certainly is not But but in in the house the energy of the progressives mostly comes from these new younger members many of them jimmy marjorie have never been in the house of representatives with a narrow democratic majority and a democratic president so part of the white house argument is we have a responsibility to govern their for. We have to compromise. The progressives are like no the republicans. Don't apologize when they have a one vote margin they block merrick garland from being a supreme court justice they pass the trump tax cuts. We should go as big and bold as we can and others are saying no. We don't have the votes so there's a huge the huge tension in the democratic party. Right now that the everybody's temperature is rising. The question is what happens. We're talking to john king speaker. What happens. I know you're not know saddam but give it a try. I'm watching your station last night. Watching the reporting from one of your people. I can't remember. Who is there in arizona for this. This sick quote audit that is going on of the votes where there is no transparency. Press aren't allowed in the new york times had a story this weekend that that the only reporter who is allowed to monitor everything is a woman from one america who it appears is also raising. She's covering the thing and she is also raising money to fund the trips of legislators from other states to come to our zone to watch this fraudulent attempt at at a quote audit. So cnn reported that Thursday they will conclude the quote on it in a week or two announce the results. The assumption is now it's me speaking. The results will say donald trump won. It was stolen from a donald trump. Is this january. Six two point. Oh in arizona when they say the election was stolen here and we assume it was stolen in so many other states to The last part there you know makes me nervous makes me worried in the sense that we have seen that. Some of the people who believe These fantasies and conspiracies or willing to use violence to vent their frustration I wish we didn't have to have this conversation. But i do think we're going to have to watch as this plays out and i think the burden is gonna fall on republicans There's a republican governor out. There who to his credit certified the election and said and rejected all the screams from the trump people to you know to to go outside of his power and somehow stopped the results or refused to sign the paperwork. After the results were audited recounted. Everyone had their chance to go to court to go to any other administrative procedure and appeal dryden. One trump loss. Yes it was close. But you know that happens And so we'll governor do see you know. What will he do when they announced this. Will he say it's a sham. It's a sham. You brought in a private company. That has no experience doing this. That had said in advance that we believe there was fraud. This thing is a sham But you're right. They're trying to copycat in other states. And you know that trump will use it to continue to scream the big lie And i do think number one. You know yes. We all sadly have to be on alert for the risks of violence And number two. The question here is you know when or enough republicans going to stand up and say enough is enough and say we just have to stop this foolishness. Why don't we focus on things that might help us actually win more votes as opposed to keep focusing on an election. We lost trying to pretend we didn't. You had some great interviews on cnn with trump supporters. Who are really looking at this as like the trump is going to be magically reinstated in august before that who's gonna be magically reinstated. Wasn't he on election days. That cunanan people thought that everyone was going to be arrested on the day. The inauguration or something like that wasn't the inauguration day. I think so john And now they're thinking that this this could be What's happened in arizona. And meanwhile you had the foreign president saying things like stay tuned for arizona's going to be very big day. And how can you govern when you lost in reference to president biden and stuff. So it is it is really disconcerting. I think it is and look at times. I wanna try to make this funny. Because it's so absurd but january. Sixth reminds us. We can't make it funny right if donald trump talking to the portrait more lago Than it would be funny would be sad but it would be funny. It's not donald trump talking to the portrait tomorrow lago. It's donald trump trying to keep people out there on board with him in this li- little simple math. Even if arizona flipped joe biden is still president. He won by a big enough margin. That one state is not gonna make the difference so even if you believe if you're listening and you believe arizona was stolen. It was not but if you believe that it's still not enough and trump refuses to process that. But that's why they say then we're gonna go onto pennsylvania then we're gonna to miss what about what about georgia And so look again. It is absurd and it is lunatic. But because it is dangerous is why we have to. Actually you know resist the urge to laugh about it. I also think it's very important that we resist the urge to laugh at the people. Pushing it Now some of the organized people and trump himself they deserve our scorn because they know better but there are a whole lot of disaffected disillusioned. People out there that we need to our business needs to do a better job understanding because why do they believe these things. Why are they susceptible to these things you know. They're they're they're not all. Just you know uneducated morons their doctors and lawyers in this and that and people who just call them on it hit your more. They're just it's a it's dismissive and it's wrong. Because their fellow americans But the disaffection and disillusion is something that we all need to get a better handle on because this view this more as a community thing that journalists thing. But if you know somebody like this you need to start talking to them and you need to try to help them because you get caught up with the wrong crowd and january. Sixth happens diesel. He's going to say i've so it's a million times but a some of the smartest people i know who've read their history books and are really scholarly. People have been sucked in by fox news and they hear in their facebook feeds and i think that they don't think you can say things on fox news. They're not true and they do. And i think that's part of the problem. They're living in the media bubble and it's very difficult to get mother bubble. We all need if you live in a silo whether you're liberal conservative or whatever you however you label yourself you should break out of your sil- that doesn't mean don't listen you know. Listen to what you enjoy. Watch what you enjoy but make sure you check around a little bit too just to get a little context and perspective. It's critical but you're right. How many people just wanna stay in their choir practice and listen to only things that reinforce what they already believe and many of those things might not be true. Hey a john king before you leave. We know you to be a pretty big sports fan. Would you make of this. Uh coming out by los angeles los angeles las vegas. Raider carl nassib. I think it's courageous and it's historic. I think the important point is The support from teammates and coaches and the league itself Because you you can think about this. One man. Making a courageous decision to announce that he is gay From all the studies and we know from the past year Of just watching a lot of horrible things happening as people get isolated because of the pandemic people who feel disconnected people who've already felt disconnected young person afraid to come out and say i'm gay This saves lives but this is not just history in a major achievement for sports. This is something that could save lives because you have a and if we always talk about the influencers who are out there you know. Denying vaccines work right. And we're critical of them so we should heap praise on people who are willing to show personal courage in a way that might bring him some difficulty political difficulty In in a locker room but might save lives across the country. So amen amen this place. John interrupted you. Get joe manchin into frenzy. Here kid could buy the argument from dorchester. Another the suburb. John talk to you next week. Thanks for your time. John king joins us every week. He's seen as chief national correspondent anchor of inside politics. John great to talk to thank you for joining us as always coming up. We're taking your calls. Ask you about the fate of voting rights myself. All your friends move. That is next on a nine seven. Gbh boston public radio. Welcome back to Boston radio jim brady marjorie and margaret. And i thought the best way to spend fifteen minutes of the show was the depress the hell so if you're coming in we were talking to cnn's. John king about the fate of voting rights legislation in the senate this afternoon. The senate will vote on whether to advance even to debate to debate a sweeping voting rights package. Republicans as you know are prepared to use the filibuster to block the legislation. We wanna get your reaction and are you concerned. Is i know margin. And i are. We are in a permanent state of gridlock where we just you know. You can cite that one rare moment where the stimulus package relief package past. Obviously which was a good thing but if a congress cannot figure out a way in a democrats with the majority albeit a small one cannot figure out a way to protect basic voting rights for the american people after an election in which there was virtually no fraud even though the state legislation across across the country is trying to address the quote fraud. Than what can we hope for from these people. Eight seven seven three zero one eight nine seven and you know i a lot of democrats. Say it's unfair to blame this on the mansions of the world because the republicans revolting no is a block. I i i reject that. I really do these. These mindless arguments about bipartisanship. Which normal times might ring true are so tin eared in a moment like this not only in general marjorie but when it comes to things that are as important as whether it's well what is important. Virtually all the legislation from infrastructure to to all kinds of reform. They're talking about including protecting basic voting rights for the american people. I have just really had at eight seven seven. Three zero one eighty nine seventy. Yeah i i need to be depressing either but you do wonder whether we're ever going to be able to fix our problems. I really you know. i'm so glad you put it. I don't see the out here. I really don't. Let's assume they're two possible outcomes. It seems to me to these midterm elections. The democrats hold on to a really thin majority in the house and the senate and we know that doesn't get you very much Or the republicans win back one or two of the chambers margin which will formerly mean the end of any progress on this legislation in congress. I i don't see what the end point is. Or who the leader who can lead a a a cross. Section of the american people out of the wildernesses. If people think if did you hear last night. I keep citing the republican polling number one third of americans not one third of republicans one third of americans in a poll that came out yesterday. Believe the joe biden is not the rightful president of the united states of america. Well like i said before. It's like russia china or something. The propaganda is convincing people. And it's really it's really really upsetting and you don't like i said i don't know the way out. I don't know the way out. I mean i would say. I usually used to say all the time when you term limits. But that's never going to happen. Obviously because we can't even get stuff. We really agree on interest to vote to advance a constitutional amendment themselves. That's never going to happen. But it's so clear to me if we have turn limits thirty years and we're not getting term getting it but but but but john king which is saying that. Joe man's is tough spot. He put it because he may not get reelected in a trump state. And that's where it's all about now is not about doing the right things alone. It's all about what i'm going to get reelected and to see this terrible attack on voting rights all across the country which may very well stand to know that the way they've got it rigged is we as we said before. It's chuck. todd was the first person to point out to us. That in some of these legislatures They've they've fixed so that the Partisan legislators republicans or the reference decide. You know what time they close the polls what votes. The winner is exactly who the winners and they could even argue that the winner was not the winner. Eight seven seven three zero one. Eight hundred nine seventy. We're basically looking for a lift. We we hope that occasionally you look for a lift from us. We are looking for a sign of hope from you. If you are analog we assume verger by listening is paying close attention to today in these issues that are just staggering importance. And if you see a way out you know the last thing. I'll say about this to hear the cinemas and the the mansion say what they say they just lived through a term where the republicans in the senate got reduced the margin from sixty to fifty to confirm justices to the supreme court of the united states. Those justices are all young. They will be there for decades gorsuch and coney barrett so the republicans can play by one set of rules but it's unprincipled by the democrats when they're in a majority to play by the same set of rules. If someone can explain that to me. I would really really appreciate it allen and a car. Your first on boston public radio what's up. I'm hoping that today breaks up the two party system. I'm hoping that one of the parties split up and and we have either like a three or five party system because clearly the two party system doesn't work anymore I was actually kind of encouraged by the what happened in israel recently with enough people get sick of Netanyahu that they all put their differences aside differences but together and got him the hell out but they don't agree or anything allen. I mean the guy. They agree that they want to know who al. But they don't agree on any policy step. Okay got nafta yet. You know you think that voting rights would be something we could agree on but like every i mean. I agree with you wholeheartedly. What you just said. It's it's utterly ridiculous that were more concerned about keeping their jobs the with doing. What's right for the american people. I violated the oath of office. In my opinion allen systems broken allan thank you for your thoughts. Which by the way we shouldn't let the republicans off the hook. Obviously as far as i know in this voting rights thing on some legislation their hand stewart three or four republicans willing to go along as of this morning. Zero republicans are willing to vote for a federal bill that will protect basic voting rights. Non do some of the most restrictive anti-democratic rules and the state's not one is willing to vote with. It's fair to say this this. This attack is aimed at poor people and people call it is i mean it's just it's just an end to have them pretended isn't and just to get up there in this year of the supposed. Racial reckoning black lives matter all that kind of stuff say well. We can't win on the issues so we're gonna win by taking away people's ability to vote. I mean it's really kind of horrible. It's worse than kinda jenkin portland. Welcome hi hi hi. I was thinking about the whole filibuster issue and whether it should be removed reduced to fifty votes or not or four months. Whatever and curse to me that mansion not gonna move all the reasons you've said but i also think that in twenty twenty two. It's very possible that the democrat the democrats will lose the senate. I'm wondering what. How long do you think mitch. Mcconnell will sit on sixty vote filibuster. Well didn't obviously he didn't for supreme court justices and jack to make that prospect of more concerning to people who believe in fairness and you don't have to be a democrat to believe a betrayal wide by. What i'm about to say is is mitch. Mcconnell has already said that if the republicans take control of the senate and there's a vacancy on the supreme court not in the last few months but in the second half of the first term of joe biden that it is very unlikely that they take it up with two years to go so the whole notion of small d democracy continuing to exist and any hope of bipartisanship is just. It's totally gone and this jack. You're making the point that i made a better. You've made it better. Is the republicans play by one set of rules and the democrats are playing by another jack. Thank you for the call. That's i just don't understand that. I don't understand how you could have lived through. What they did was supreme court justices and then say but we. The democrats shouldn't stoop to by the way getting rid of the filibuster which is a scary thing you get. The filibuster means. A majority of people will decide outcomes. Charlie baker didn't need sixty percent of the electorate to be elected governor. If if there had been a rule like that and you only got fifty nine percent. I guess we don't have governor. It is ridiculous getting rid of the filibuster basically says majority rules period. It's been abused grossly by one party. And by the way. Harry reid did start at democrats started with certain. Federal appointments a bunch of years ago when he was the leader of the senate. So they're not without blame but right now. The democrats are willing to go that far. This is from robert. he says. Can you please explain why. The republicans control congress. They run roughshod over the democrats when the democrats control congress. Republicans over well. That's exactly what i'm excellent question robert. Yeah it's an excellent question. Different set of rules ivan in cambridge. Welcome hello. I'm concerned about the the democratic party being so weak The solution is at the state level The democratic party has to You bet Heavily and he has to pay attention to his grass root for years we. We did not offer with the minority. The minority populations With the black population. So what happens is we always ran the same candidates we always rent this same fundraising for us. We use the same political and we got our butts kicked so i'm not concerned that we have to win. Twenty six states twenty six states including in a few other states where we can enact policies forget nationally. We need to control the states. Well yeah but the reality is where we don't control the states and smarter there to say we democrat. but we've been outsmarted. I think he. I mean small d. Well he means maybe capital. Dan talking about small democrats. People who believe in democracy need to control the states. Well i think gerrymandering has made it very difficult for people. I mean which this bill would also deal with. Extreme partisan gerrymandering it with deal with which we have massachusetts things democrat. The democrats are pretty well in massachusetts. But i think the thing the bigger thing is to me. Is that when you look at what people want. They do want infrastructure. They do want issues about healthcare. They do want issues about this party and support every one of these major pieces of legislation. Everyone right everyone right. And that's was that's what's so frustrating. So you think that people wanna get their rosa. I mean it's a great thing. You say what you will about the big dig and how much money it costs and how there was a lot of fraud and corruption in there was but you know what hundreds if not of people. The great jobs sent their kids to college. Were able to buy houses in the suburbs and stuff like that because it created really good pm job but the republicans would say. We support that part of infrastructure. But if you were to stop the average family and say do you support the new infrastructure. Meaning things like childcare. What was elizabeth warren's line childcare's infrastructure for families. Don't you think the vast majority of americans believe in in an expanded definition of infrastructure rather than than the constricted ancient definition. That republicans are trying. I can't think of the paul. I've seen directing directed at childcare and healthcare for like decent wages for people that are taking care of all people in nursing homes assisted living and stuff. But i certainly know that. They're in favor of of infrastructure spending and i don't know what you know this what is the police and the minimum wage increase. I don't know yeah. I fifteen dollars. Minimum wage republicans joined the wrong side. What americans want all sorts of stuff. I mean guns is an obvious one anyway. Kate and conquered. Thank you for calling minute kate. Oh sorry. Hi how. I agree with you guys on heartbroken. Every time i pay attention to what's going on with the news and you were asking for a list if something that would lift lists me is not just to be informed but to be involved because if i'm just informed i can just put my head in the oven i can get together get together with other people who feel the same way but i do and are finding out. What are the best things you'd citizens can do at this moment haven't impact Is the only way. I knew how to get through the last election. And the only way. I know how to handle the upcoming one and whether it's swing left or indivisible or wherever you go just find a place that's doing something and it'll be better. That was a great way and the show okay. I was a great way to end the show. Thank you for looking envelopes jim. That's the only answer dot. They're low those envelopes and look them up and send them put them up. Lick them up. That's your new bumpers. They're who said that way to victory. Lick the envelopes. I do actually i do. I can't remember who it was. She was she was head of the house. Senate president attack was mcgovern govern. She's okay well. The show's over is over. Good okay thank you very much to try to find out who is senate pro. We're going to be joined. The medical editor cap'n tomorrow boston global brian. Mcgrory steve hoffman chairman of the while because There's still problems with setting up marijuana tours in massachusetts run. Thank our crew. Chelsea murs matthews believe in comic. Mackenzie farkas engineer is john. This flaw parker. Our engineers are mild. Smith and dave goldstein show. I was so opposed. There was michael. Sandel is a professor at harvard. Who's classes have been viewed by literally millions of people worldwide. His latest book is terrific. It's called the tyranny of merit that's right tyranny of mark. What's become of the common good. He's with me tonight. Howard brian. I know you're a huge fan of former colleagues church. Got to talk about two of the things we talked about today. The nc double a ruling from the supreme court of the united states and the incredible courageous decision by now a guy was a household. Name the beep naby. Pardon me who we know came out on instagram s. Els one note for a an emailer. Dennis in response to your Email trust me. I'll find out who you are. So just be aware that dennis jamaica news. What's a terry murray. She says massachusetts senate and she talked about looking up. It's not a big fan of hers. Smith's wife for was. I mean i'm trying to be truthful. That was a great line. Okay okay thank you very much. I am larger egan. I'm going to do my show. Martin is going to go home and look envelope so we'll give you an update tomorrow. Thanks tuning in. We'll see tomorrow.

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BPR Full Show 7/24/20: (Please Don't) Take Me Out to the Ball Game

Boston Public Radio Podcast

2:46:14 hr | 1 year ago

BPR Full Show 7/24/20: (Please Don't) Take Me Out to the Ball Game

"Support for Boston public radio comes from the Museum of Russian icons, now open with time to ticketing on view now, tradition and opulence, Easter and imperial Russia details and ticket Info. At Museum of Russian icons Dot Org. On Jared Bowen filling in for Jim, Brady ahead on Boston public radio civil rights icon John Lewis passed away one week ago today, while Lewis is rightfully remembered for his dedicated passion to equal rights for people of color who's also a passionate supporter of lgbtq plus writes coming out in favor of same sex marriage long before most Democrats Lewis said that he had quote fought too hard and too long against discrimination based on race and color, not to stand up. Up Against Discrimination, based on sexual orientation, later will reflect on that legacy with media Maven Sue O'CONNELL to X.. JAILBIRDS are now flying free Michael. Cohen Trump's so-called figure was sprung from jail and Caffeine Greg longtime girlfriend gangster. Whitey Bolger has finished her sentence and to wear a mask or not wear. Mass were all still fighting about it. We're GONNA talk with Emily Rooney about that and more coming up Boston public radio, eighty nine seven w. g. b. h.. The Boston public radio I am Margery EAGAN Jim. Brady has day off. W. G. B.. H. Executive are Senator John. Bone is in for Jim. Hello Jared Marjorie great to be here with you. Great to be here with you as well. So it's opening night for the Red Sox and it'll be unlike any other. No fans in the stands fake crowd noise pipe through a ballpark instead MVP McKee best. A and the MLB is officially putting be. In baseball. That is of course Major League baseball officially. Bringing Black Lives Matter Baseball threats are participating in a League wide black lives matter effort which includes a massive billboard that runs along the Mass Pike by Fenway. Park another black lives sign mounted at the center field bleachers. Fans will have to gather. The ballpark on Lansdowne st though they'll BTV's and a pop up green monster restaurant. The game has truly been turned inside out and we're asking you. Are you game eight, seven, seven, three Oh, one, eight, hundred, nine, hundred, seventy, eight, seven, seven, three, oh one, eight, nine seven. Oh, are you on board with baseball? It adapts to the constraints of the pandemic to suspect similarly the game from the fake crowd noise to foxsports, putting virtual fans in the stands and even stimulating virtual wave. Bother you or not, we saw the Yankees. The nationals play last night. Ourselves did anyway. They'll take a knee they. It was like a unanimous taking of the knee before the national anthem which was. A I as far as I know we wonder what you think about that, do you want? Your hometown team taking a knee will the injection of the black lives matter. Civil rights issue into sports be a good thing for you or a not so good thing to you. All this is coming up. And of course we do have to mention Anthony factual disastrous. Do we do we have to? Did you have to mention that surgery was serie? Know our staff ever are June got a one of our producers got. Get a list of people who've done well. People who've done horribly to. We can go through that. Anthony FAUCI. He's you know. Did you really expect him to? You know to get over home plate I didn't expect them to and I think no less own because of that. outfield. What. It was like those movies where the CGI affect happens in the ball starts to world around in the. Opposite Direction Yeah. I think he was about thirty feet off. The left vote was really way up, but you know he's he's he's. Disease, specialist. He's an epidemic specialist. He's a pandemic specialist. He's not a pitcher and I thought he took, took it all and good good spirits. We're number is eight, seven, seven, three, oh, one, eight, hundred seventy. Are you going to watch the Red Sox? I remember people earlier. When this whole thing happened, there were watching repeats of NBA Finals Games on Taller knew there were so desperate to watch something without that Michael, Jordan. Not, Michael Jordan was really about the Chicago Bulls and they're great. UH, season I think it was ninety six. I forget what she isn't it was. When they had that that great season, it was about the Jordan and the other members of that great at both team. People are watching that desperately there. There's nothing else to watch so. You can still watch it I mean it is going to be strange. I. Don't know how this piped-in music is GonNa is going to sound. But it's something on television to watch live and people miss their baseball seasons, the number, eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one, eight, nine seven. You can email us be pr, W.. G. B., H. Dot Org. What do you think? Well. It's I. Think it's a very much a psychological thing I it just seems like such vacuum in this country to have summer happening without baseball, and it gets us into the fall where we can anticipate football, but of course it's fraught with with with problems that we saw how many. athletes tested positive. How many had to sit out? How many decided that didn't want to participate right now? The extra measures they've taken. Know, but at the same time I think that we we need some semblance of normalcy, and if they can figure it out and can move away, move forward, It'll be pretty helpful I know. People are gathering a lens downstream. That might be an issue today together at restaurants, because of course, people are not allowed into any of the parks including Fenway Park, but they might be able to gather as they would on a normal opening day. which also if you've ever been there during opening gate involves a lot of budget. I think a lot of here, so there'll be a lot of celebration of a little fraught, too. But I guess it remains to be seen houses all going to pan out. The other thing is the taking of a knee. I really think that would be great if this continues not just baseball, but in football where course started with Colin Kaepernick who is still not applying for the NFL, that could be a great thing because I at this point, it's a little ridiculous for. The president claim. This is about dishonoring the military into siren the flag. Everybody knows what it's about now. It's about civil rights and the African Americans and Black Americans to be treated the same way, and not to be harassed and systemic. Racism Sarah so it seemed to me. It'd be a great thing to have the greatest athletes in America. I get on this, but then you'll hear. People Complain. What's injected into my? My time away from. Everything that's political. You know just to immerse themselves and sports, so people can weigh in on that as well again. Eight, seven, seven, three, hundred, eighty nine seventy one more thing we can. We can add that well two more things we can add that. Walsh's little concern Mir washes look concerned about people going to Lansdowne street that they may be crowded when they're out there, eating or drinking and that David Portnoy. Famed founder. Barstool sports. Rather notorious for his use of the N. word. Racist Talk and Misogyny got an interview with Donald Trump exclusive into donald trump. And I'm not sure if this is a good thing for the president's politics or not a good thing for the president's politics because he's. Not doing very well in the polls, but anyway. This is a guy he decided to give an interview to. Eight, seven, seven, three, one, eight, hundred seven. Let's start with Marian Beverly? Hi Mary. Morning. Hi I was in the army, and I just want to say that I supported Colin Kaepernick when he first took a knee, and all those other times and I completely support anyone who? Wants to take a knee Whether, it's for a national anthem. For when the flag is race, it's their freedom of speech that I fought for and I completely support. That's a fantastic way to express it. Yeah, Yeah Mary. What are you hear from your fellow vets. I it sounds like a lot of veterans of where you are, but then a lot aren't. What are you here? I guess I mean just what you just said it's all personal preference. Now we all while interior site for the freedoms that you know we as citizens support or enjoy. I mean It's it's all personal Each one is different you know as they are in the army and and other. National, forces but. That's my personal opinion I. Support Them, okay. It's why I mary. Thank you to fight. Thank you very very much for your call it for your service. As well. A number is eight, seven, seven, three, one, eighty, nine, seventy. Okay. I'm going to talk about some of the bad pictures to make Anthony Fauci just back. One of the one of the worst of course was president. Barack Obama Right? He gets out there I. believe he was wearing mom jeans. And he was way off I, mean he? He apparently he through this wild pitch that was way out to the left of the of the catcher and didn't. and. He got heavily booed I. Mean he was really bad? And you know who's right below on the list. I don't think Obama wants to be right above this guy, list. Justin Bieber. Perhaps not as surprising that. Might not have the best pitch I don't think. He also wants to be mentioned in the same breath, but you know here's the thing you get the. Invite I think most pr people think Oh God but I. didn't I hope this wasn't going to come into the office because it's just? The the the number of people who can successfully have a pitch that goes has people talking the next day about the strength of the pitches is pretty few so I know I know people pr people in Town in Boston who worked with their their clients and out there throwing the night before. Just see of course because you don't want to be embarrassed, so you have to give Anthony Fauci credit for accepting the challenge going down there and doing that in front of the entire country. Okay. We don't have to name names Gerald off. You'd like to that. To the people that were with their with their ages to try to get the pitch down, did they do fairly well or give me a few of these outcomes, or did they humiliate themselves? Well I think it was only met with moderate success I. Think obviously we're not baseball players. You get out there and there's an immense amount of pressure because you know you're being filmed. You know that you have all the people will generally in the stands who are sitting there watching you and the? Pressure not to mention the fact that you're surrounded by an entire professional baseball team. WHO's watching how you throw? Yeah. I know I'm not a very good golfer, but I have a few times. It's of like I don't WanNa hit off the first tee because people, the clubhouse can watch June. Simi do three or four practice shots I. Just missed the ball entirely. You know what I mean. I like to start further down when I do on those rare occasions. What am I talking about? I haven't played golf in twenty years, but anyway it was very embarrassing parentheses. She but I'm with him because he's an opportunity and we also said that one of the best pitches was from from a president who owned a baseball team right George. W Bush True Yep, he out there and through one how the pitch! Let's go to Joe in Gloucester. Hijo Hi guys so I have had the humiliating. About. could in fact I was. I was on your show mark to promote outdoor hockey when we put the rink in the middle of Fenway Park. Oh yes, that was great, yeah? So Sam Kennedy surprise me at one o'clock on an afternoon in August saying Oh, by the way you're throwing out the first pitch, and he handed me a ball and I haven't thrown a baseball. Ten years and I've never been so nervous in my life and I'm I'm watching Dr Vouch e night. with some glee. Is His pitch went awry and I said to my daughter. Hey look worse than I was and. Being good daughter. Dad He's seventy eight years all. Make It. Make it worse. I have no commemorating MEM-. Commemorating the moment in the background of the jumbotron. My name spelled wrong, so it was oh no, oh. Well we have photoshop, so we've made some changes to that. Now hold on a couple of questions. How were you in Ace? Pitcher on your high school baseball team, or what was your background of throwing pitches? I was a slow moving second baseman. My sports actually ice hockey I was a goaltender, and when I bounced the pitch to to some Red Sox bench guy. He picked it up and in nicely brought to me and said maybe if you'd throwing a Puck, have done better. So. It was. Your family there. Pat a bunch of people. laughing. Try to do what was what was coming and I think if you hear nine people say, don't bounce it it. Kind of predetermined. What's going to happen? Well Joe. You're a good sport. The Ice Hockey Rink in fenway was absolutely a great idea and. and. Your daughter, you know. What are you going to do right? What are you going to do about what the kids had to say? Thank you very much for the call Joe. That was great. Do we think that that's where JIM is today? All of a sudden realizing is is Jim throwing out the first pitch at Fenway Park today. I know that Jim. We'll be throwing out the first pitch, but you know who apparently did a great job to. The actor Bill Murray. Yeah. He did really well. I did not know other phone. Oh my goodness. We're hearing somebody on the line. Give you call after. That's not data I. Is that Dan from weymouth. Danville so John Parker is just decided when we take all. Decided we must hear from Dan from Dan from. Oak Okay. We're going apparently now to Garo from tro. Heiko how how I feel about baseball starting. I love it. I love it but I'm watching on TV I did see how she throw the pitch and God bless him. You can't blame. He doesn't want anybody to catch anything. That's a good one. Bob. Wildly out of sites that nobody gets in. Guy That was very clever. Jim here. He would say and you're appearing in the lounge later tonight sir. Say Very much cow. That was great. Thank you. I was saying before. Bill Maher comedian. He'd he did really well. He's a big cubs fan at home and has no trouble. Pitching Heathrow, a very respectable first pitch at Wrigley Field in April Twenty, twenty twelve, but not until after ran around for a bit wreaking havoc, apparently Bill Murray did very well throwing out his first pitch. Would you even? Suppose somebody him and you've your big celebrity in town you TV show forever if somebody called you and said jared. We. Want you down at Fenway Park. What would you do of course? I was just having that little exercise in my head. Actually thinking how stupid it would be for me to do that because my pitch would be awful, I can tell you that now. Let alone the fear that I would have for everything. The Joe just described when he was standing there at fenway. Park, but of course it wouldn't stop me I. mean the Thrill of being able to do that. That would be that'd be great. Sam Kennedy for listening. Maybe. This is the time to do it when there are no no fans in the park, except for the all the colored the cardboard cutouts that the people are buying stadiums of themselves and putting their which I believe does go to charity, which is a really fantastic thing to know that everything you're seeing. So only see family tonight. We're going to see the cardboard. cutouts have actual people there in the stance that the day if they're doing fenway. Seen that I do know they're doing that at other stadiums. Maybe we can check that because it is a pretty great program that's sprung up immediately and I marjorie to be serious moment to go back to taking a knee and whatnot I. It is pretty. Pretty President pretty striking. Boston has done with the black lives. Matter Bureau first of all. It's on the Mass Pike. The nearly stopped me driving by the Mass Pike the other day because I. Thought and I realized that it changed, and it is very noticeable. It is very present, and then as we mentioned to. It's inside the park as well a very clear standpoint of where we stand. You know John Rosenthal people that may not know has been a anti. Gun Crusader, trying to increase the difficulty of buying guns forever, and he's done those great billboards about gun violence along the Mass Pike, and now he's got black lives matter one so good for John Rosenthal, absolutely well. We are talking about the red sox. Usual Walk in the Ballpark. The conversation continues on eighty nine seven WGC Austin public radio. Welcome back to Boston radio. If you're just tuning in, we are talking about the red SOx opening night tonight in the middle of this pandemic happily were in better shape here in Massachusetts and law places around the country, but we're asking you if you are ready to embrace the very at odd covid, nineteen new norms of baseball as sport adapts the pandemic Raskin to about a taking a knee You may have seen that the Yankees. Yankees, the nationals every team member. A took a knee at the their debut were asking you if you want this in your sports, viewing such as it is going forward or not, and also, if you have any good stories about good pitches or bad pitches, throwing out very bad ones, Justin bieber apparently is tied for Barack Obama for the most embarrassing pitch ever thrown, and I guess is, is Joe said you know I mean. Out She is seventy eight, so maybe if you were out there at forty it, he would have done a better job. You know what I mean. He's probably got a little arthritis or something by now, but think again I give them credit for just out there by the way have an update I was. We were talking about the fans. The quote unquote fans a cardboard fans that you'll see and stadiums including fenway park. There'll be above the green. Monster People can buy cardboard cutouts of themselves in benefits. The Red Sox foundation money they distributed children, veterans families communities in need. So you will see that here too great, but this is the day where you also going to see a lot of congregating. As we talked about to down at Lansdowne, street as as bars move in restaurants, moving to the streets to kind of somewhat have a semblance of that Game Day, atmosphere that is a little bit of cause for concern to have that many people gathering which we have. Have a little bit of south from. Mayor Marty Walsh to address that recently and here's what he had to say about. People looking to come into Boston, coming to fenway vicinity for opening day. I know that it's exciting here. In the city, the Red Sox are starting. Friday people want to be around the park, but honestly for your own health interest, it's not necessarily the best place to be. Around large crowds, so my suggestion is unfortunately, all of us will be watching the Red Sox, the Bruins the Celtics and hopefully the patriots in September. WILL BE ON TV until it's safe to go back to the stadiums. Okay. Let's go to Dan from weymouth Hi Dan. How's it going Marjorie? Good thank you for calling. You're welcome. I wanted to just comment on the the taking the knee for the flag. I'm a veteran of Vietnam veteran of three years in the army and. My, country sent me to Vietnam twice as a very young man, just outta high. And I believe it is I. write it our flag. It's not president. Trump's flag is not It's not any one particular slag, and to my flag been upside down in my since president trump became trip president and started doing what he's doing because I feel, he is undermining democracy. I have been confronted by this by people It's very interesting sticking your neck out standing up at some point you have to stand up I did this. In a veterans group I was in group I had to leave the group because. Most of the Vietnam veterans that were there kind of thought they were. Heroes would do it again and it was. We shouldn't have been in Vietnam my country lied to me when they sent me to war, I'll never forgive him for that. And they also taught me to be a killer of men. Something I never spy it to be We can be much better than we So I applaud people who stand up and do what they believe in the face of concerted opposition, you know. I I can't say. That was. That was a great call. Thank you, thank you very much for Sharon and for your service I thought with you. We Really. Appreciate that. Takes a lot of courage as he says to stand up. Bill wister. Thank you for calling. Hey. How are you today? Okay thank you. Basically calling I've already emailed the red sox and basically said that they lots me as a fan. as a protest, my right to protest. Of their right to put up. The black lives matter sign. My whole premise was if you put a color before the freeze lives matter. You're a racist. So after fifty three years, they've lost me as a fan. So, they'll What is the? As clause, matter It is about Of African Americans at the hands of. Softening any color. You put in any color there. Okay stand up. Do the right thing I mean you're talking about. white people on Black. People Black People. Killing black people every day in every major city, especially Chicago right here in Seventh Congressional district. You have a voice for the Congresswoman Ileana Presley, attacking Raina Campbell. WHO's running for Congress as a Republican because she's not quote black enough, she's married to a white person. T making all of these scurrilous. Accusations to were nobody's even talking about it because we love Iona even I'm not even familiar. Bill I'm not even familiar with the attacks on the Republican, but let me Josh One. Let's thing before you go. Do you think that there is racism against African Americans in America? That's a shame in itself module that even aware of it and you live in Boston. You live in Boston say. I'm sorry I. Don't get every story that I should bill, but you think there is racism against African Americans in the United States or not. People should be responsible for themselves. Do the do their job. Take advantage of opportunities if they want to take a knee. That's perfectly fine. That's their. That's your right to protest, but don't play the victim card all the time when it suits. Question Bill before you go. Do you think there is racism against African Americans United States. You don't have to answer. We don't want to, but it's kind of a yes or no thing. I. Think there is there is there is racism against everybody in the United States? Presence? Thanks for the call. I appreciate it six one seven loops getting up my phone number eight, seven, seven, three at one, eighty, nine. Seventy is the number we're talking about. Is Bill just talked about? The black lives matter posters that are on the Mass Pike and Fenway Park we're talking about. Taking a knee were also talking about. Do you want a you like excited? That will actually start seeing some sports, even though it is in these weird circumstances and we're also talking about. Dr Out. She's wild. Wild pitch at the nationals Yankees game. They're talking about all these issues in it. You know it's worth reminding that I I think part of the reason that we do see the black lives matter banner within Fenway Park as we have seen racist behavior within the park within fans They've been on that front, too. So there has been hitting. Knowledge meant that there are major issues that we continue to deal with here in Boston. That are very overt that will happen in game, so there are people that have brought that into the games themselves. To answer bills point as well so we go back to our calls. Go to. Gary, Whitman Yes. I Gary Good Morning. Good Morning! How are you today? Great, thank you. Good good Yeah Dr Coachee that that was that was pretty much a disaster. Love Dr. Yeah, I feel for the guy that was uh. That was not an all time. Great you know. But anyway. I give him points for trying showed up. That's that's that's. A Nice Distraction for Dr Not all the serious coronavirus, and all you know I I think he needed a break, but Saudi I wish had thrown a strike, but nonetheless I was going to bring up the highlight of George. W Bush's presidency. He has a yeah. I mean this is. It was better than like a Nolan Ryan? I think it was right after nine eleven and you went up there and I got it. I'm not a George W. Fan, but I gotta say. He threw that pitch. Right down the Middle Look like a ninety five mile per hour fastball. It was it was great. know. What I saw. And remember how it was such an emotional moment because it was right after nine eleven, people were afraid to go to. ballparks was going to be an attack on the BALLPARK's and. You almost teared up. I think watching him. Is Pretty, NEAT It was I was the highlight of his presidency. That's all I can say. You guys have a great day you, too. Thank you very much Gary I should correct myself before a couple of people are e mailing and I appreciate it John Rosen saw. I should've have pointed this out. He sold that billboards the Red Sox, so he's not still the guy, his his billboard or someplace else now, but he's had it for years and the place where he did have his handgun violence, stop. Stop Handgun. Violence billboards for years is where the black lives matter thing is on. The is on the Mass Pike. So thank you. The people at emailed about that and I was just going to say. We have an update from our producers. Who told us that? Maybe maybe this is the way to go for throwing out first pitch so tonight it'll be governor Baker joined by Marty Walsh and another surprise guest all through out the first pitch tonight. Maybe that simultaneous so the focus isn't isn't on you. Although isn't that pressure to? If you get up there with two other major colleagues and you're throwing out the first pitch. Yet does that mean? Yeah, you're right. What does that mean you one after another? They all try to do it together. I have no idea. Jerry says Anthony FAUCI has did his embarrassing first pitch, but did it with great dignity, so they go. He didn't see to be phased by. Do you think not at all I think he is greater things to worry about I? Think this is the absolute least of his worries this morning. Don't you? Wonder I mean I mean when he was now. He's back in good graces, or good graces, or some good graces whatever we're supposed to believe that anyway well. Yeah, but there was that period for a couple of days where trump is going after him, the administration's going after Fauci Peter Navarro wrote that piece in USA Today which USA take a lot of trouble about because it was again, it was full of factual errors. Navarro saying. Fact She's been wrong. What everything we ever talked about her. You just completely. It's not easy to be under that kind of pressure and he just. Kind of brushed it aside from so calm. You do watch him just his demeanor when he's talking he, he doesn't, he doesn't. There's not a lot of expression which is a really good because he just feels so self contained such an authority that he seems so unflappable, which of course somebody what you want, somebody who's just being very practical and paying attention to the facts here. I think we have time for one more quick call. Sue. Salem in the car. I got that right. SALOM. Hi. You're on the air with. Dreamy Gerald. Thank you. I just I just have to call the question first of all I I love with dance from Weymouth, he lives right on. Was He great? He just yeah, Great Bill just doesn't get it yet. So hopefully you will. Anyway my question is a woman never been chosen or asked to throw the first pitch at a red sox game. If yes, that's great, if no. Why not? And, maybe the. Surprise guest tonight will be I. Presley S Great. Well our producer Yes yes. A woman has really thrown out. The first pitch dashing was Kim Kardashian. She has not here necessarily. The dodgers not in two thousand nine. But I don't. I don't know A. Participation saying yes, there was a woman producers saying yes, but they're not telling us who. May Not. We may have to wait until I figure that out sailing. Thank you very much. For the call, though we are moving on well coming up after missing the mark on lgbtq inclusiveness, the hallmark channel gives it another go at least they're saying. They're trying media maven sue. O'CONNELL is next for that and more on eighty nine seven W. G.. B. H. Boston public radio. Welcome back to Boston. Public Radio Jim Brady is off W. G. B.. H. Executive are Senator Jack. Bond is in for Jim and joining us on the line over the social norms and abnormalities that the day is media Maven Sue O'CONNELL co publisher of Bay Windows, and the South End News, and he ends explainer in chief and political commentator. Hello Sue O'CONNELL. Thanks so much for joining us. Hello Hello Hello. Are you guys doing? Well, we're doing. We're doing extremely well so Akal. Let's start off with Alexandria okay Zeo Cortez. People that may not know this story. Do we have sound of this guy's wasn't clear. If we have sounded of this, not somebody who can tell you when here. We do okay great. I'll just briefly outline what happened. People may know this or they may not that she was walking up the steps of the Capitol when Ted Yoho. A tea party member veteran Republican from Florida. According to report from the hill, people who witnessed this and the congresswoman that he stuck his finger interface, calder, disgusting, called such crazy out of your freaking mind, and then when she was out of ear sight, he caught earshot. I should say he called her a EXPLETIVE DELETED I don't know if I can say the second worthy. Begin the be, but it's A. It's a worthy because. Okay I can say. effing be is what he called her. And he gave this non apology. Let's let's play a little bit about what Alexandria her response to this, and then we'll get your take on it Sou- I am someone's daughter to my father thankfully. Is Not Alive to see how Mr Yoho. oho treated his daughter. My mother got to see. Mystery ojos disrespect for house towards me on television. And I am here because I have to show my parents that I am their daughter and that they did not raise me to accept abuse from men. And we should just point out. To point out with his apology or non apology, he part of his defense. If you can call it. That was that he is a father with. A wife, and that's where the congresswoman very much took exception. Sue O'CONNELL right and we should point out. Go ahead so. I was just GonNa say I think everyone looking for some home-schooling content. That you have any control over your teenagers or young adults or middle schoolers that boys and girls and everyone you should sit them in front of the Youtube Clip, the full speech of Alexandria Okay Cortez's remarks and have them watch that so that they understand that they can neither treat people like that, nor should they tolerate being treated like that because I think. You know I wanNA talk about Yoho in just a second, but for her for for Representative Okay Joe Cortez I think this was an Obama moment, right? This was the yeah like when when Obama gave the speech at the Democratic National Convention, and he really elevated the language that he was using and the ideas that he was using you know if data had been me and I went to the floor I would not have been eloquence, I would not have been able to connect the greater you know threads and themes of of how we tolerate this I would not have been able to paint. Yoho as that guy in a bar that has to be thrown out. You know she works in restaurants. She's worked in bars. Those of us who have worked on that kind of work encounter people this on a regular basis. And she said how she thrown people like him out of out of bars for behavior, but we're GONNA. Take a moment to remind people. That and maybe representative Ted Yoho. Who's retiring Republican from Florida may not know this, but there's actually a dress code. In the House of Representatives, right, there's actually protocol. There's actually behavior we're actually expecting. The people who vote to represent us to behave in a certain way, and that includes not calling each other names I mean they dine in the same places. They are in the stairways altogether. You would expect that if women have to wear jackets to cover their arms, the men can keep themselves from calling their colleagues. The B word simply because they disagree on something, ideological right and Ted Yoho is the guy who didn't want to. To pay the country's deaths around the debt ceiling. He's part of the ride them caucus right. You know so. I think when he was, he was discussing with her. Was Her stance regarding how the unemployment benefits are about to run out for people who have been impacted by Cope in nineteen? How violence is is sometimes driven because people are scared losing their jobs, and that's you know. He found that disgusting enough to call her disgusting and to call her the F.. Word, be word and he's. An elected official right so. You know the coarseness is is is everywhere around us, you know. I. People say things all the time that that got. the that are improper are wrong are vulgar, but when you were an elected official. Think you should be held to a higher standard and I. think that this you know. I'm beginning to wonder if he was on her payroll if he's on occasional, Cortez's payroll because I think that it allowed her to elevate herself in elevate women and girls and young women to show by example how you respond, and how you should not tolerate being attacked like that. You know I just want to mention that Kevin McCarthy. WHO's the House Minority Leader? Big Deal Congressman big deal said that this guy apologize. His podgy should be accepted. He didn't apologize and I. Wear that there's been an outpouring of support for her, either so it just says something. About let me. Crawley's talk. We've talked about this word for decades about lgbtq acceptance. When you know someone who's Gay, you know you're more likely to to to not be discriminated against them. That was never worked for women. Though right women have always been people lovers. And daughter is a good point. In on and my dad who love me very much was perfectly happy that I had to play in a gymnasium in high school in the afternoon for games while the boys got nighttime games right and we got hand me down uniforms, but the boys got new uniforms. My Dad never called you know a congress person to complain that I didn't have the same opportunities that my peers who were boys were right. So this is an example. It drives me crazy during the me too movement when you know, people would put out statements as a father to girls. Don't know father nothing to do with it. That women are discriminated against and that this via language is unacceptable. Just be a human be human. And you? These words come out of her mouth and you think wait. How did nobody ever say that before when? You point out. People have been saying that for a while. I have a mother who I love and. Makes me an inherently good person, yeah. Good person before you are in a situation where you have a daughter, you realize suddenly. Oh, my Gosh! She's going to grow up and she's GonNa be catcalled in the street. She's going to make less money than my son. Oh, my gosh, I should do something. As she said herself congresswoman she said having a daughter does not make a man decent. Having a wife does not make a man decent. Yeah, treating people with dignity and respect makes a decent man, so she I tell you for a thirty year old woman. She is really impressive and she's got a bigger brain. I think if you see her at these these which is questioning people in hearings? She is really smart, really smart so. Definitely one of those super smart people, and regardless of what you think about her for politics or her agenda over point of view. There's no doubt that she is She's definitely super smart on the ball and what I love about this generation of of people under thirty five for the most part is, they are not afraid of anything. There's this great Amy Schumer special out. You know both her comedy on Netflix's and also the making of it while she's pregnant. I and I can't remember the name, but she says whatever routines is basically the younger women come up to us and say are you GonNa? Let them talk you that way. I should. About it, oh right. Tackle. I will see what kind of staying in Washington for a moment I mean. We just had a a ruling from the Supreme Supreme. The, Supreme Court of the United States Rolling back even more. They, allowances that the companies and institutions had for discrimination against lgbtq plus people however We're learning that the trump agencies are finding ways to continue to expand restrictions and prohibitions. How how is how do we reconcile those two things being able to happen? Well it basically this this this so called religious exemption and religious rights that that courts are allowing and president trump and his administration are allowing federal agencies to carve out for people and again I I. Don't want to sound like a broken record. We've been talking about this for a long time and Marjorie you know you and I have been an agreement around this as soon as a cake starts to say I don't WanNa Make A. A cake for a gay couple against my religion, they can also say I. Don't WanNa, make a cake for divorce couple because of our religion I don't want cake for a couple having sex outside of wedlock because my religion, I don't WanNa make a cake for a couple where the woman works outside the home, because it's against my religion and I I'm all for religious rites I'm all for the freedom to worship, but I really think. That once we get through this pandemic and get some stability moving forward on equality. And and the issues of the day we need to look at the fact that maybe there should be a religious litmus test right? Maybe if you think you're going to discriminate against somebody and you're going to allow. The federal government to to to to enact discrimination based on so-called religious exemption. Maybe there should be a test. You have to take to prove that you actually are religion, right or Says what you think, it says right 'cause. Skate, gayness barely makes mention in both books book one book two the sequel. Original barely there, but somehow this is like the most driving force in these these these. Exemptions that are are out so that people can say no. I'm not going to serve you. I'm not going to hire you. I'm not going to educate you. You can't get access to to the right medical care, because it's against my religion that you exist as a as a gay person. Well I mean it's ridiculous. They're imposing their religion on other people is is the problem, but you know what always kills me. Sue O'CONNELL all these anti birth control people all these people we're we're. The families would ten and twelve kids I. Don't understand it what what happened to them, you know. I was a little kid. You know, Mike. And Mike Pence Mike Pence shouldn't have twelve kids either. He's got fertility problems, or maybe he doesn't have sex with mother anymore. You know. The reason they were ten twelve, when I was growing up and growing up, because there wasn't birth control, or it was hard to get birth control. You go to church on Sunday. There'd be seventeen mcgillicuddy sitting right in front of you, and and that is there, so we presume that these people are hypocrites to because they're not obviously opposed to birth control, because they're using it right right. Yeah, yeah, and and It's just again. I just reiterate that. While we're busy talking about the things that we're talking about. The trump administration has been extremely successful in enacting a conservative far-right agenda which includes putting federal judges in place that will be here for at least a generation, and wherever there's a supreme court, Victory or court victories that breakdown discrimination against lgbtq folks. The trump administration is finding ways to carve out. Religious exemption so that people and organizations and federal agencies can continue to discriminate against gay people. So economy! Maybe what's going on with the hallmark channel. Well. I'm very excited about this. Because I am portrait with the hallmark, channel as you know I'm I'm a single parent with a kid who's home a lot and she watches a lot of the hallmark channel. Holiday. So anytime. There's any new content I'm thrilled about it, but and you may not know this I. Don't know jared. This might be right up your Alley Arts Guy, you know all holidays. All holiday movies, all wrong calms and princes and princesses, and switched identities, and all the great tropes that we we've come to love countdown to Christmas, miracles, Christmas and there's never been an Lgbtq main storyline or character There's been an actor. But there's always the one on the sideline like you thought someone was. Nineteen fifties kinda phony Randall. Last characters who true I think I don't know. He could be a little gay. He's a he's. The makeup guy couldn't be gay, but They have committed that they are absolutely going to have. LGBTQ story lines and characters in some of their upcoming holiday programming, so we. CanNot I just say. My read on this. was that the at this moment you know here? We are in July in these. Things are probably shot maybe not because they look like they. Take about forty five minutes to shoot. Let's be honest and put together, but he earned lie in. They're trying out the over and over again, which is really the best? Drinks. Like. The from the other play and I love that chair. That's here's been in seven different homes, but it looks best in this wall and. So I mean here. We are in July and they're starting to talk about their programming and yet they can't give us one title, or they can't give us one film yet where they actually have an LGBT story front and center, and we need to remind people that this is the same channel and they got a lot of hot water last year, because they pulled an ad featuring a same sex couple from their programming, and then had to reinstall it after there was so much criticism and yet they seem to be getting a bit of a pass as far as I'm concerned that they can still get this far down the road and not have this kind of programming. Absolutely I mean I think the the hallmark cards. They actually had lgbtq content early on. There's sort of a mixed message. Company know you don't know what you're going to get with hallmark in terms of lgbt stuff, but I also think jared the reality too is that there's the production issues in Hollywood in new. York and Toronto are all shut down so I. Don't know what we're gonna I I honestly think they shoot over the summer I. Know a couple of directors so That's no isn't real I'm. Going to write and shoot the hurry up offense, right and shoot over the summer so I guess just going to have to wait and see, but it is a bit of a bit appalling. You know that you put that much content up and it doesn't occur to anybody that they should have some good diversity and representation, so we'll see I'll be I'll be watching nonstop hallmark as soon as they start the movie, so I'll have a report for you on December Twenty Six. By the way, it's not just the furniture that's repeated. It's the story line so. She goes home for Christmas. We? She finds a friend they get married. She goes home to her castle for Christmas reacquainted finds. That it's. The crusty Dad, who doesn't think of that marriage is allowed. My daughter used to think I was brilliant because I would predict. Oh, she's going to end up with him and she's like. How do you know that? So, Suo Count, tell us about John Lewis and and gay rights. Yeah this is this is a great loss. Obviously to the nation and John Lewis such an inspiration to everybody who who fights score, equality, but you. It's interesting and you guys may remember this, but during the same sex marriage equality battles AH, here in across the country many of us myself included were criticized for using the term civil rights and civil rights battle when it when it came to same sex marriage, my my now. Friend Reverend Eugene Rivers was was I used to be on Jim? Brown show on CNN arguing with Reverend rivers. Who would say? LGBT GAY folks lesbians at the time didn't have the right to use the term civil rights. When it came to fighting, it was appropriation that it should have a different name. You know I think if we were doing it today, we definitely would have had a different name I. regret sort of the all in I had on on that topic but I. I also remember vividly when representative. John, Lewis came out and said you know civil marriage for same sex folks is in fact, a civil rights issue and He was an early supporter of same sex marriage, and I've heard a number of stories from people who marched in gay pride parades where Lewis would be there, and they would run up to him and say we're still marching. We're still marching and he would just keep on marching. Keep on. So It's just a great reminder that his his version of equality, included all people, and he was happy to to share his light, and his joy, and his hard work and inspiration with everyone fighting for equality. Sue because we're short on time I WANNA fit fit in the death of Mitchell albums. Who is the former Massachusetts Revenue Commissioner? He died at seventy five toss briefly brought him, but we only we have less than a minute left so yeah, because actually Mitchell Adams who a former revenue commissioner for the state of Massachusetts, and he's a descendant of the great addams family, but most importantly he was. Was Openly Gay. He came out in nineteen ninety. Two and a Boston Globe article, he served on Governor Bill Weld Administration who was a Republican, and he was one of the very early faces of of of LTV t writes in the city and in the state, and as many recall a mini may be shocked to know. Bill well was once voted the most pro gay governor in the. and was on the cover of the advocate magazine and much of that was due to the circle around him, including Mitchell Adams in late been McCarthy who also passed away this year and I shared that moment with the Governor Bill Weld as well but governor weld surrounded by openly gay people who shared a conservative viewpoint and Mitchell Adams. Pass away so that. Didn't well Mary Him. I think he's. Not. No. He performed the marriage ceremony. Details. Yeah Okay Okay Hey thank you so much to O'CONNELL. Appreciate it, thank you. They say thanks to meet him even to. O'CONNELL joins US every week. She's the CO publisher of Bay, windows and the South End News She C. N. N.'s explainer in chief and political commentator. Coming up next Emily Rooney is here with her famous list of proclamations and purchase preparations. Keep your dial. Tone. Boston public radio. I'm Jared Bowen filling in for Jim Brady on Boston public radio at the beginning of the pandemic beloved grocery store trader Joe's came under fire for discouraging employees from unionizing amid pandemic. Now the company is once again being criticized for its failure to meet the moment famous for its cost effective frozen meals. The company is taking heat for rounding. It's frozen egg rolls and Burritos under the. The labels training and trader Jose later will hear the full story from Corby Kummer when he joins us for decades Sierra Club is probably champion the story of John Muir who some say was America's first true conservationist, the namesake of San, Francisco's legendary Redwood Forest Muir Woods yours become an icon of the progressive movement, but along with his legacy of environmentalism is one rife with racism. We'll talk about the Sierra clubs reckoning with its most famous president and much more coming up Callie Crossley ahead on Boston radio eighty nine seven w. g. b. h.. Welcome back to Boston public radio I am margery. eagan Jim Brady has day off filling in for him. Is Executive are settler here at W., G. B. H., John Bowen. Hello Again Jared Marjorie. So Emily Rooney is here joining us as she does every week with their famous list of fixations and fulminations. Emily courses the host of Greater Boston and beat the press which you can catch Friday nights right here on W. G. B. H., two as seven o'clock hello. Emily Rudy Marjorie, jared I could feel I can feel the presence. She's not, but I know. I've seen you. I haven't seen margarine so long. It's crazy. All the time now it's great. Are you guys in their huddling on Friday. And of course, okay. Okay so, so let's talk about two people who have been sprung from jail. I'm Rooney. Well. One of them is been kind of semi sprung for a while I guess, but tell us about Michael Cohen He's now out of prison. So this is obviously the president's personal attorney. Who was right the fixer? Yeah? It's been in jail now for I. You know I can't remember when he actually. I don't know if he's even been there a year anyway. He got a three year sentence. He was originally released. Back in May because he was considered a health risk, because he's got hypertension and a couple of other things, and so then he, the bureau prisons were making him fine a sign, a release form, which basically they added all these things in an including the fact that he couldn't. He had to sign a waiver. That said he wouldn't be writing a book. Personally profit or whether it was in a number of other things. So he sued the Department of Justice claiming that they you know tailor-made this release for him and this judge I have to say Judge Hammerstein agreed with him, and said he'd never in his all of his years as a judge has ever seen a prison waiver form anything like that, and he called it retaliatory justice. Department is denying that saying that. Cohen was belligerent and acted up. And you know got got all upset when they asked him to sign this thing, and that's why they take them back, but he's going to be released. This afternoon after getting his Kobe test. After getting his trumpet Kobe Tests Yeah they. Were said that. You know he's talked about writing this Tell all book about the president in she. That's what I will. I'm not so interested Hillary Trump's book, but I am I am. People have read, it said it's great and I thought she was very impressive. Anyway you know I mean I. Feel like I know all that stuff about him already, but some of the real inner workings and the mass nations that he pulled off, and he has tape recordings, so yeah I know even more so than Bolton. You want to read this. I interested in Bolton either. Yeah, I'm interested in the thanksgivings and Christmases at the at the trump castle which Mary apparently. Anyway he's talking about some money irregularities as well as alleged, racist and anti. Semitic remarks at the president regularly made so so the judge said it was retaliation I mean. Cohen which I'm not although I feel like he's the fall guy for the president's should be the president's in jail he. He admitted doing what he did he. Finally money he had hit expenses. He's the one who paid off those two women you. And instead it wasn't. That it wasn't harsh money and it was, and then he admitted it, and he took the fall. It would seem that he's going to have a harder row than than Mary trump or John Bolton because he was the president's lawyers, so you can only imagine the battle to come about what was. To clients turn. That book scheduled for September so I mean he's I. Guess He's been writing it on the back of Napkins in prison. How has working but I mean you, don't you? Don't get access to a computer and word processing machine there. No I'm sure it can go to the prison. Library Him I. Would The library, but I don't know if you can can use a word processor. No. I don't think I get a lot of. Doubt. There and one of. Exactly or their boss, I walked. That's shared some. Type. Care used to type them on. Really. Yeah, it's always very exciting when you get the mail with the prison stamp. On the back of the all agree I got one recently another one from John Conley. Goodness. Well this is relates to next story because we're talking about. Why is the? Who Weighty Boulder all those years ago. Yes that was the highlight. It was the highlight killing that he was involved in. It was a different one. Nobody he tipped off. Whitey, Bolger. Halloran. That's the one that the house. That was the was the highlight guy. and. How was the guy that was on gunrunner? That's it. And he was strangled and then show I believe in. Boston on Dave Wedge and You know. I'm blanking on the CO author data. Is really good and I to tell you something if you don't know. The details of some of those murders, that is is just shocking. I had I. Haven't seen some of the incredible detail about that until I read. I was in for Jim. that. The previous books all done that because I've read the previous books detail Hollarin' down the basement, begging for his life, rather be Shah. We'd rather be not. Known, name restaurant and they call the balloon, and then a balloon has. Just like Oh my God. Yeah Anyway. We're here to talk about. We're talking about, and it's a good could put shag way to to understand the woman who is with Whitey Bulger. All of those years Catherine Greg. Is She's now. She's been out on house arrest for a year, but now she's home. She's back in South Boston this morning. Federal agents came to her house and took off her ankle monitor, so she's technically. There's always all kinds of restrictions after you've. You've been released for any kind of prison. especially a federal one. You can't have any association with people who are currently in incarcerated or knew they were in Britain, so there's all kinds of things can't too, but she's free. She can take walk. She's living with her sister. Her twin sister I should say and seems very happy. She's she looks older than sixty nine years. I'm just going to add that. But I guess sprint. You Know How long you've she got. Spent nine years she got got. She got twenty years in prison. Twenty one months added because she refused to testify about. Yeah, what associates might have known where Whitey? Bolger hid money in that kind of thing significantly to. She got more time than some of the associates who committed some of these. Things that you were just describing. Oh. Yeah, Oh, yeah, well, it shows our. Squealing to the government, really does pay off in terms of sentencing because Kevin Weekes who is associate of of for years, talked about and be out in these murders John Moderato I think he was over twenty people or some astronomical? And she nine years. Exactly. Remember that's going to sit down with sixty minutes. That's correct so that that was controversial, but she did not. So, what do you paid? The price display turn have like a stash. They found eight hundred, eighty, five thousand dollars or something in the walls of their Santa Monica. But don't you think she had other money somewhere? I don't know I think so I don't know, come I. Don't know I do remember that A. Previous girlfriend astounded office used to see because she's to be a waitress at the world, trade centers beautiful looking women. They're both beautiful women and. He wanted her to go with him on the run did. Eleven days and then Ya'll's take me home to my grandchildren dropped her off, so catherine and that was. Beach Malibu Beach. Jared Our special. When right BEF- before he was captured, we did it and what at long before it was two thousand and one right, there was because then we had to hold it for a while because we it was scheduled to air, and then, and then we had the The you know the nine eleven events nine eleven, but he went back and forth between these two were on for years and I believe. Catherine knew about Teresa Patrice did not know about Catherine I may have it backwards. One knew about the other, and the other didn't know about the. There were so many reports of him stashing money all around the world, finding ways to stash money all around the world. But who knows if she had access? Although they what? They spent sixteen years together I think. You, can't you've got to imagine? She had to have known something. It'd be a little bit suspect if she started kind of wire money into some account or something, but. She's she's pounds through southeast Mercedes all of a sudden. Her sister said. Can you imagine spending that much time in jail you just you're out of touch with. I, mean nine years out of touch with just technology alone credible. So, let's talk about this piece at our colleague. Edgar behavior the third. Did about our people in Massachusetts wearing masks? As we know, this is become a huge. Political Fight I. Don't know if it's GonNa snow why it's radical. Because if you're wearing a mask, you don't like trump. If you wear a mass, you know if you're not wearing a master, trump person is not. Wear one because I'm really fearful about getting cove it at sea, only reason yeah. Yeah well, it's a good idea because they basically saying that that's the most important thing you can do. Right now is where mass wash your hands associate distance, but anyway here's. A little clip from this interview Heard that did here's James Derogato-? He is speaking to our other colleague. Philip Martin Copy Square about why. He's not wearing a mask in public. Producers say we actually don't have the sound Oh. We don't have the sound okay. Without takes care of that, but what he said was I don't really like to follow the law I guess you could say. My friend got sick. And by the way he's with a friend who's very very sick. Who's been in the hospital for two months? This guy that he's speaking to at the end and he says I would feel really awful. My friend got sick I mean I. do wear a mask. I really have to have I'm on the bus, but other than. Than that I if I don't have to wear it, I'm not going to, and he's standing right next to this guy who supposedly a friend of his, who said was in the hospital for two months, and he's very worried about getting sued. We've all seen a lot of these I was just watching. I don't know one of the Cable News shows the other night. All these people getting really really upset when they're asked to to wear a mask and this is my freedom is right. You're stepping on my civil liberties and stuff. This is just condensates. Belt. I didn't like the government telling me to wear a seatbelt. Let me let me be very honest about that I. don't like the government telling me what to do, but I want to do it for my own safety, and so of course I'm GonNa wear masks and you know and that's why we moved. Jerry was joking because I to Chatham sometimes on the weekends and there is this. Event on July twelfth were thirty or forty restaurant workers got together at somebody's house or at a restaurant. It's a little unclear. Nine of them I. Think came down with with them tested positive for covert, and it was like it was reckless behavior. They were interacting with each other. They were goofing around. They weren't wearing masks. And now as a result, a whole bunch of the restaurants down, there had shut down again a lot of them did it just as a precaution, because a lot of these people were restaurant workers, but Emily on your on your government tab, do something. I find it reprehensible. The government isn't mandating it from coast to coast. Because we're talking about dead people by tens of thousands, you know that's the whole ridiculousness of trump now, if everybody in warned mass from the word, go as we're learning more definitively day after day after day, tens of thousands of people wouldn't be. It's federal government. Se. In like in Chatham as a sign of this, says three hundred dollar fine, and then it gives you the parameters of the town area where you absolutely have to wear a mask. Not Everybody does it by the way I will tell you but why. Why shouldn't it be federal? I? Mean every other country that has done. It is now going to. Ask rural areas that are virtually unaffected. You can't you know well? You don't have to be wearing a mask. If you're out in the middle of of Montana on a ranch, but the point is, you can't socially distance I. Don't know I think. Charlie Baker just announced. Today is unenforceable. You can have somebody who's coming in from I duNno Illinois. For Two, and then you tell them that quarantine at their own home for two weeks because they went out to visit their brother-in-law. And what are they going to do? The minute I crossed that somebody's GonNa. Stop my car and say worry been. How's that going to work? What I was GONNA. Say Is there is a lot of anger. I was running the other day in a bicyclist yelled at me. For wearing a mask as I was yeah, so so basically I run, and if somebody as I start to approach somebody or I can. pull it up. And he yelled as he comes flying by without his mask and I will tell you I've begun counting and only half of bicycle. Wearing masks and they they fly right up by half-time. You don't even know they're coming. They don't socially distance so the railway stadium. So this guy will I can't even repeat fully what he said, but he said yeah, you pull up. Your expletive deleted mask why? Because I think this is the the latent anger that's out. There is this all becomes completely politicized his. These people are jerks. They're just jerks I mean. Let's call them for what they are. They're just jerks. The president among them. Well, exactly I mean. It's not a it's not like. Four million people now with cases, we one hundred and forty five thousand people dead. The medical experts keeps saying where a mask wash your hands. If you can social distance fine, you're outside, but it's about people being. It's not just about people being dead about our economy being Dr. Rachel the Tube, so I don't care flagrantly ignorant to they. Just you know they don't pay attention or people really do still believe it's a hoax. There was a story over the weekend of a twenty seven year old young man. I can't remember what stadium was he dying of Covid? He turned to his care work, worker worker and said I thought it was a hoax died. Yeah, yeah! What kind of a hoax! I guess the thing is if you're standing somebody that's been the hospital for two months. You not wearing a mask. You're not. You're jerk or you just have to be falling here. Okay. Here is the reason that Emily Rooney is here incomprehensible out of control so common sense doesn't matter why not. This is the kind of thing that drives people crazy. It's you're right. It doesn't matter I have absolutely no interest. Those are all my emails from before six o'clock in the morning. Family. It, I knew it comes out when the good. Guys you know how how we've been. We've been having all these discussions about what working from home really means so. Yes. I did a little research and I reached out. To colleagues and friends and associates who are all working from home and I ask them to give me in three words. What what working from home meets right so that is my list today. Work from home in these. Some of them are very clever, have say. Work from home, many technical challenges. Don't Miss Commute that came from a lot of different people said the same thing. Don't Miss Commute. Notice! Noticing the flowers I came from a guy who said he'd never really paid attention to his garden before. This is one that I could. I can definitely relate to, but I. don't get to do it getting laundry done. While they're while they're working from home. They go throw the laundry and that that would be great people to do that. All Right Miss my colleagues I do too. I feel like it's very weird. Walking around that empty newsroom isn't jared. It's like Yeah I. Mean It's Nice To. Know it is, there's a frozen in time element that me Phil. Radio or boss left. He left in March and he hasn't even cleaned at his office now. He's gone for good is like his coffee. Cup Is Jacket. All the notes on his are still there. It's like. so it does feel like the world after. All right here's one from someone who said not sloughing off. Will you know what that means the sloughing off? yeah, the the the people that are at worker suspicious. The people that are at home without. All right, good good netflix offerings. There's an honest answer. Yeah enjoy enjoying window staring. was that mean was. That means dairy out the window all day long. Staring you're you're waiting? You're waiting for your call to come in, and you're staring at the winter. here's someone from somebody who says he's naming the squirrels. A three. And then he puts. Cayenne. Pepper in the holes that they can watch them start. Wouldn't want check in. All right here's another discovered. My neighbor does nothing. Another person said I discovered. My neighbor sells drugs. Wow Oh wow. One, Guy said becoming my parents, and by that he meant. He's enjoying gardening and watering and waiting for the mailman. is now right. Is from one of our one of our friends. Unkempt untethered unending can relate to that see. Yeah You. Guys should probably get. Who came up with this next one bra what Bra. Don't. You Do I. Don't one of our colleagues. Okay? Not Enough sweatpants. Okay well. That's a good one to internet. Rabbit holes whatever that means. Just going down the Rabbit Rabbit, yeah! Finished all podcasts. Hall of them, all of them all of them. Shower tomorrow. Here's what here's what I particularly liked. Finally Understand Neil ISM. That's a friend of yours yours. What's a weekend? That's an honest answer. What's a weekend? Oh, what's the weekend? That's a good one. The next every day is Monday didn't quite get that one. Here's my favorite one. Finished the Internet. And I have one that I added on my own for the work from homeless on permanent vacation. No offense Oh. I, mean like that come on, it's weird. It is weird time, isn't it? I mean I've heard of people's company. Saying they're going back in person ever well ours are. Going back until the maybe. We already know APP next year two thousand twenty one. Yeah longtime some people. I'm sure we'll never go back, yeah. You know what though there's GonNa be no more snow days. Right, I mean when you think. Anybody out. There was always a fair amount of downtime at work so I. Don't really be great people, but if you're if you're working from home, and you don't have deadlines and you don't have it. Can Be be sitting inside all day. Dreaming Zoom Calls. It's I don't know I don't know I don't know how manageable this is, so our staff I should. We were previously talking about throwing out. First Pitch is at Fenway Park and our staff discovered that apparently Attorney General Maura Healey throughout the first pitch. Back in two thousand. About women, yeah and I would imagine being a star basketball player athlete. That in June two thousand sixteen. She did a good job, but I'm not sure she did a good job or not, but she did throughout the I tried to get a real arm unlike she who I guess. You're talking about and I. Have a friend who emailed in because she was listening inside the doors. Kerns Goodwin has also thrown out really. How. Actually make sense because she's such a huge baseball fan. Yeah I. Am I think they should call you ride. On your bucket list I should have no really. Throw the first pitch you care. Throw underhand for one thing I couldn't even. Girl okay, it doesn't matter. Throw girl. That's not the point. Okay practice. Also memories bucket list is having a be attending a state dinner at the White House. She's got Big One I. Remember I did that on my very first emily's list. That was your first one one of the very first ones. My bucket list was standing, and also one was Attending an execution. Like Bill Donahue. Mine's a little more careful I just want to spin. The wheel on the price is right I don't have to be on the show. I just want us in the. Noise. It makes that's pretty good. Okay Emily Rudy. What is on beat the press? Please tonight well. We got a letter from a viewer who said if you watched heavyweight can? He was upset with a photograph that the Times printed last week. It was a really in depth piece about What how badly affected the Rio Grande Valley has been in the photographs were unbelievable, but one of them was a person who had just died. And this guy was saying you know. Why do they have to? But then I did a lot more research into this, and apparently there's been a lot of criticism that the media hasn't printed enough. Things like this or That we're used to even in wartime you some more depth visuals. There's been a whole lot written about why no photographs. Why aren't we would? which might dispel the notion that this is a hoax, so we're GONNA be talking about that. And also you know this Guy Roy Dan Hollander. Who shot the the judges killed the judge. Son Oh. Yes, Oh, yes, tell people about the sun. The twenty year old son and husband and the mother judge basement an anti feminist. Lawyer? WHO's been right for decades trying to debunk things like ladies, nights or women's gyms, and that kind of thing turns out. He's made hundreds of media appearances on big name shows like Gretchen. Carlson! You're Christian Carlson. Greta van Susteren others other people like that. So he was kind of this Kooky foil that people always tried it out when they you know the other side of the argument in a ladies, nights and stuff like that, no Greta van. Susteren is now regretting that, but it's like people never. There isn't always another side, and so all these frivolous lawsuits he's. He filed anyway. Is this a father's rights isn't. Father's rights groups to you know if you ever get down to see and I don't necessarily. The. The Governor's Council wanted approved judges. If you ever go to one of those hearings when I used to go when I was still working for the Boston Herald the end of the hearing. This wasn't that long ago. You'd have endless people from the fathers groups getting up and giving giving speeches. You know they were upset about. Remember that Stephen Somebody or other. Yeah, right I. Don't know then on Carlson got into this ridiculous. FIGHT WITH THE NEW YORK. Times. He came back from vacation didn't mention you know. His producer of in fire fired for all that vile. Racist stuff. He didn't engine the fact that he was charged with sexual harassment. He says that the Times was about to print the address of his home up in Maine, which was completely bogus. Anyway, he names. The names of the two reporters were working on the story. They get completely St- somebody tried to break into one of their houses at night it was. So. You know this whole discussion. We had this with police this week about why police? You shouldn't know who these police are. Where they live? I mean you can find out where anybody lives. And so this idea that somehow certain people should get special privileges that our government employees or media people for that or reporters for that matter. It's kind of like everybody's information is fairly accessible. This was really an evil. What he what he was doing is he was trying to get these people God. Yeah, no, he's not a I. Don't think he's a nice person as we say although I think he's not. He's usually of Sean Hannity now in the ratings I believe do not. I don't think so I. Think he's the number one show on cable now. Five hundred kids really impossible to watch. He got he got in trouble because his a head writer. was posting all these racists and misogynists. Secret Them Yeah Yeah. Was Right. Okay! That's number two or number three. all the death photo, Tucker Carlson and Dan Hollander. That's three. Okay thank you very much. An Rooney a pleasure as You say later, jared. We'll see you later came the same space. And we re joins US every Friday. Of course you can keep up with her on. Friday, nights right here until the H. Two at seven o'clock for beat the press. Coming up no way trader Jose. The grocery retailer is under attack for brands. Its Ethnic Foods Corp become rejoins us for that and more now on eighty nine seven W., G. B. H. Boston public radio. Welcome back to Boston. Public Radio Jared Bowen is in for Jim Brady, so say eight so trader Joe's and all my petition signed by thousands is asking trader Joe's to stop. Putting. An international foods covers with names like trader. Joe's trader, Jose and Trader Joe, San or San Jose or something like that joining us a line to talk about this and other headlines basically talking about. Ethnic and racist labelling on some of their food's about food passing in food culture is the food writer Corey Comer. He's executive director of the Food and society policy at the Aspen Institute a senior editor at the Atlantic and a senior lecturer at the tough Friedman School of nutrition, science and policy. Hello Corby Kummer. Low from an actual Radio Studio Oh NC Lottie da I really fancy. Very fancy well explained. What Trejos is do kind of botch that Corby Kummer explained better than I did. What trader Joe's is in trouble for? Oh, trader Joe's is finally saying no to. Racist branding that perpetuates the worst kind of G. They have funny. SLANTY is stereotyping. Trader Means Turner Jose Trader Joe's at the beginning of trader Joe's. Their whole Whimsey of their branding the graphics, the palm leaves. The exoticism was fine. It was part of who they were, but it has ceased to be amusing for a long time tied Joe Trader Jose Traderjoes Dot, com and it's the same trend as quaker oats, saying no funded aunt Jemima or Mars saying no, not every uncle Ben's not every. Older Black Man would like to be pictured in a white jacket. Serving White People so they were saying no for a long time. It's a seventeen year old named Brianna Bedell, who started a petition that finally Gotham to backed out and say this is not appropriate. This is one of those instances where. I felt like. This with the the statue, that's the monument as we become such an issue in Park Square here in Boston where I pass by recently having passed by it so many times, and suddenly looked up and saw really for the first time I thought gee, how is this even able to still be out in the world? And I had that same experience trader. Joe's the last time I was there about four or five months ago? Thinking? Wow, how does this branding still exist? And it was really surprised to learn that they actually have been addressing this for a while, but why on earth does it take them two or three years? It seems in this case to to relief to to. Execute this new branding. It's finally because the moment the political moment has changed and I think that some. Defenders would say oh. They're knuckling under the current political moment. They should've taken this initiative along time and understood. There's plenty of ways of selling food that you want your customers to think is authentic, Thai or really good Latino food or really good, Chinese food, but you. You don't have to perpetuate old. Creepy stereotypes emphasized that they are not us in order to to do the sally. We're talking to Corby Kummer. Our Food Guy, you know I'm really upset. I shouldn't be that upset because there's so much tragic going on now, but. I really do miss the takeout. Salad bars in the places where he could get takeout food Salad, bars I mean. Are they going to survive after this disaster is over? To Corby Kummer I don't know that they're gonNA survive, but starting in the eighties. Very interesting this piece in Bloomberg that showed the history of it, which was that in the seventies, steakhouses, other places star, having them as come ons. You know here, you have all. You can eat salad bars in our they were. DOS leaders, but remember the customization remember how exciting it was to load up on Croutons. Hobson. Dressing Canned Black, olives. Everything that you wanted you could customize yourself. And supermarkets glommed onto this, and it became a big profit driver I think it's always been a way of using old produce that they couldn't sell anymore because it didn't look great so far good marketing, Gimmick and you could charge a very high margin per pound and also give customers the idea. They're getting just what they want, and a lot of it or only little of it. If that's the way, they want it but of course. Course they have gone the way of the pandemic. They are considered to be very unsanitary so now markets are finding new ways of repurposing this space, because square footage is everything in markets, Mar supermarkets run on very low profit margins. What they have to demonstrate is sales per square foot, and if you think about it, these big hunks of metal that are the salad bar stations. They invested in a long time ago. Need to go to some kind of us so so far. Supermarkets are bagging salads. And they're putting it. They're they're putting them in those refrigerated hunks of metal in the middle of the stores, and they're saying you know this is your salmon. This is your chicken and fruits. This is. Whatever you? This is your Caesar whatever you used to want before so that is some of the sales, and it's midday lulls that are the big times. Though salad bars, but whether that's GonNa, survive or not There's a big robot named Sally. Did you look at this big robot? It's called Chow Botox Chow Botox and it's a firm, a bay area startup and a pepper Pike Ohio location of Hainan supermarkets is going to try out sally what it is thirty five thousand dollar vending machine where you plug in all the things that you want either into your handheld software on your device or right into the machine, and you pick everything not only. Is it a way of having a machine? Dispense this four you when salad bars are unsanitary, getting too close, but it's A. A way of competing with sweet green and the other places that are eating into the business of supermarket, I was going to say this is a really an inopportune time. It seems for pandemic in this regard because of the popularity of sweet Greens and chopped in solid works in these other chains that have sprung up as is people feel healthier or try to be healthier by going to these chains instead, but I don't know how I feel about my churry tomatoes bouncing down some metal shoe. Sally the. Why would you feel bad about at the idea? If you're worried about some kind of sanitation, what I would feel better about is the idea that some supermarkets say they're going to use that space for which is to have a human being right behind sanitary plexiglass bar. Take your order just as if there's a many sweet Greens rival inside the supermarket, so a human being will do it, and you won't be in touch with it, and you'll be giving somebody work, which is the idea I like about it instead of taking jobs away via robots. Sweet Green I. It is going to add that little Parmesan you ask for Sally is not going to take your take your order. Okay, so corby come I would be remiss in honor of Jim Brady. Who usually here, but he's got the day off by did not ask about the future of hot bars as we all know. Jimmy's, but has life sitting next the hot bar whole foods. It's gone now. Someplace replaced with other things I've seen. I've seen it one Cape, the whole foods, guacamole and saucer and Tortilla chips, and all the hot part looks so weird, but are they done for two? They're not necessarily done for I. Think the way of reviving them is with these human beings that are going to be behind, and saying Jim it's so good to see you. Why haven't you been overloading on wings lately? I get you so I think it's going to go back to that. What I didn't see in this article was in my Aspen Institute Food Policy, program I did this whole set of kitchen worker guidelines, and now we're working on restaurants server guidelines how to keep servers diners, but especially servers safe and one of the things that one of our hotel members has been saying is that they've installed the mother of all? Sneeze bars these guards. In their Asian hotels, and he distributed diagrams of this, and so it's everything encased in Plexiglas. I haven't seen where the hands go in, but I'm surprised. Supermarkets are just investing in more plexiglas, and somehow giving Jim his way of using utensils that are only one time you somehow going in. I don't know whether it some hole in the plexiglas that allows your gloved hand to go in, but I think there's going to be more innovation on the hot bar front so that Jim can have his way. Well. That's very reassuring. So Corby let's. Danny Meyer's for people who don't necessarily know the name. He's a rock star in the restaurant world. He's an innovator. He's ahead. He's had two great restaurants. He's also the guy who's been behind no more tipping, because it'll be folded into your bill but not so much during these times. What? Why is he rethinking his procedures? Because he's able to hire back only a couple of the two thousand people. He F- laid off. Immediately upon closing his restaurants This was a very criticized move in the restaurant industry. He did it so that they could immediately apply for unemployment and not wonder and get and get their applications in early But now when he's able to hire back. In percentage of his servers as he's reopening restaurants, he doesn't want to rob them of any possibility of getting extra income. And so he's saying that even though I danny. Meyer think it is really better to incorporate the price of service into the restaurant checks so that nobody is stiff so that it's completely equitable. I won't have that when I'm just starting to reopen so that all the servers who feel they can make more money by getting tips will be able to get that money now the problem with our attributing all of this to Danny Meyer is I'm so criticized when I tweeted this for lionising white restaurant owners, so what I want to emphasize that Daddy Meyer is working collaborations with with a restaurant opportunities center, which has a one fair wage campaign, which also wants to eliminate tipping and wants to. Increase the minimum wage, so that everybody is treated fairly so this is something that he's working in a partnership with the real leaders in this who are the unions of restaurant workers and the restaurant opportunities center, which represents a people of color women, but really all restaurant workers, a dirt Candy Amanda Cohen Other. Restaurant leaders in a New York are trying very hard to increase the minimum wage eliminate tipping across the board and they are working with. Danny Meyer and other large well-publicized restaurant groups on this campaign that's called one fair wage, and with any luck that's going to be the industry standard, but right now as restaurants are tentatively reopening, trying to figure out how to bring back service jobs it. Might be better to let them earn tips, but it's still very controversial. It's not anywhere like a settled industry policy. Well, you kind of answered my question, but then reopened it again. Because I was going to ask. This is not just a moment. Then there's still the momentum behind this or people going to look at the take this opportunity to to stunt possibly for for those who don't believe this is who who don't WanNa see this method. Move Forward. I think that one fair wage, which is trying to raise the minimum wage for everybody and eliminate tipping is though is what we all should be supporting and looking to In the future. Corby Kummer is our food man. Move on now to something that. Apparently the northeast. Got A lot less help from the federal government than other sections of the country Congressman Presley and Congressman Jim. McGovern have demanded that the USDA do a much better or more equal. Distribution of these. Food help for people that are struggling. Is a Seri- here that that this is because the northeast is mostly blue states and we're paying a price for this. Lutely I love this that I oughta Presley and Jim. McGovern, who is the great champion? Anti hunger efforts in the entire US legislature and really points the way for the whole country have noticed that the northeast wasn't getting. The contracts wasn't getting the resources in this new farmers to family's food box program. And they said that only three point six million people the northeast. Who already experienced food insecurity before the pandemic, they were just getting forty six million of distributors and organizations, the Northeast, which is four point, four percent of the one to a one point, two billion, which were in the first round of the USDA's allotment of funding. Of course, the funding is going. The Red States to the states that support trump, but I hadn't seen it I had noted it. They noted this national pattern of where the bulk purchases were going to They were going to other parts of the country where the Republicans think they can get more support. And because I think it always bears reminding this because this is the northeast because there is so much concentrated wealth here. This is an area that is in desperate need that there is a huge level of food insecurity, of course in all of the rural areas of New England but not only that look at the Mass Massachusetts unemployment rate compared to the rest. It's not good and hunger is hunger for all families food insecurity for all. Families is way up. Not Going away unemployment, bonuses, or whatever you call, the six hundred dollars on top of it for pandemic relief are very much threatened or probably going away at the end of July, this is a moment of real need of food, insecurity, and the idea that the northeast is being inequitably treated, and of course look at the Northeast as being the leader in mask, rules and everything, the president has said, or not necessary. Of course the northeast is being punished ended I on Presley and Jim McGovern are calling them out i. think is just great. So Corey wetter. foodbanks please cell foodbanks. This is another way of. How do you get relief to the people who need it? The people who are hungry the families are insecure. A lot of them are undocumented. Therefore, they do not have access to the social safety net. Even though and we've talked about this and you can't talk about it enough, even though they've been paying into. Into unemployment for years they are undocumented, so their employers were able legally to put them on the payroll and give the money. They showed that they were paying into the unemployment system, but they were often on other people's social like dead legal immigrants, security numbers that would be used for several undocumented employees. It was a wink, wink unacknowledged. exemption of the US system, but it allowed it was. It was considered a win win. The government would get its cut. Employers would be able to give wages legally to these workers who weren't actually documented, but those workers once they needed. Unemployment could not get into the system and so clandestine food banks are finding ways of reaching out undocumented workers who are afraid of showing up any place. Place where they might be ice, there might be confronted with. You're not supposed to be here. We're GONNA. Make sure you get out and they're meeting in alleys and backyards, and rather than advertise themselves. It's phone calls, so that are going directly to the families that are hungry that need this assistance, and so there's now like this article that we saw in the counter the great website. talked, about one in. A farmworker family co-op that's reached out to one hundred sixty families just to get them food bank because they're afraid of showing up at a food bank. Well Corby thank you as always for joining us. Thank you. Thank you become a very much. I'm missing still missing the salad bars, but thank you very much. But you in touch with sally, show, show. Good, thank you. Become robot. She joins US every week. He's the executive director of the Food and society policy. Program at the Aspen Institute. Senior editor at the Atlantic and a senior lecturer at Tufts Friedman School of Nutrition Science and policy coming up. It's all things tech with Andy Nocco keep your dial on eighty nine seven W. G. B.. H. Boston public radio. Welcome back to Boston public radio, joining us to go over the latest headlines in the at the intersection of tech, policy in commerce is. On NOCCO. He's a tech writer and blogger. You could find his work. NOCCO DOT COM and follow him at a NOCCO this I h an at Ko, and do not go. Thanks so much for joining us. Oh, thanks for having me guys. So India NOCCO I. Don't know every every week or day. Maybe there's more often news about facebook. Companies employee's being upset. People that are using it being upset. That, they're associated with facebook I think it's a lot of older people now that mostly use facebook showing pictures of their grandkids and kids. But gives the latest devout What's going on about racial bias there? Yeah see the this is an indication that like the dam is starting to burst. You used to almost never hear any stories. Come out from current employees inside facebook, but now frustrations are at such a head internally that they're reaching out there. They're talking to reporters. NBC News had a really really great story that came out I think it was just yesterday about a problem that. That researchers working inside of facebook discovered about racial bias and the automated systems that keep the conversations clean on instagram and facebook now people are posting so frequently so often. It's such a floodgates that it has to be done by software. There are people that back that up, but mostly it's an algorithm that decides as is this hate speech, and does this violate community guidelines if so. The Post band the band the user and they discovered that there is racial. The these researchers again. FACEBOOK's own researchers found racial bias. They found out that. If if an account was associated with a black user, then that account was fifty percent more likely to be automated modestly disabled by other content moderation system than a account that's associated with the white user and similarly there was bias about men. they matter of fact when they're putting together their their findings. They've put up. Put a chart. At finding that there's taking data. The systems are automatically taken down a lower proportion of hate speech target marginalized groups and concluded as a direct quote from the slide that the tools are disproportionately are defending white men, and the capture to this is that when they presented these findings they their bosses told them well. Don't tell anybody about this. Don't talk about this. Your Co workers and stop doing this research who Andy Davies. The. Speechless kind of because turning. Point at the beginning that we have had this steady stream of stories like this that have been coming out of facebook as you point out there, they're increasing in their loudness as people become more emboldened to talk. But when you hear that last element, there is a look the other way attitude toward this. What is your read on why this is happening and? You don't want to believe it's delivered, but what is behind this? Well. They're a couple of factors at play here now. Officially, facebook did comment on this article for NBC News, and they said that the reason why there were told to stop this research is that. the company believed that their methodology was flawed, and therefore none of that data was actually useful. Okay, that's what they're saying. Now that NBC news reporting it, but it comes down to a couple of things number I think number one doug you get. into the Dogma that infects companies at that scale, one of the dog maddux beliefs inside facebook. Is a treat all content equally, and that kind of ignores the fact that if someone calls another user white trash, okay, technically speaking, that is a racial epithet that's racially hostile speech, but if someone else uses a much more violent word, that's mostly a applied to African Americans. That's an entirely different thing to situations are not equal because. The history of prejudice inside the United States is not equal against different groups, and the other part. Is that This is something that I've been talking about for quite a while. FACEBOOK is really unique in that it really is run by Mark Zuckerberg and a very very small handful of executives that are very very close to him where. If they they can, they can present. They can be presented with the most data ever expensive data, really great data, and then simply say I don't believe you. We're GONNA. Do exactly what we're going to be what we were doing before and that's a huge huge problem. If facebook is going to survive, they're really going to need to have a more open open process, even Steve Jobs. Who has this report had this reputation as tyrannical? Oh, well I'm going to throw this at you and yell at you for being a Bozo of you do if you do something like he was, he was also the sort of person where. You explained to him why he was wrong. This idea was good. It might take a little bit of time, but he would reverse himself absolutely. There are lots of cases about this. You don't get that same impression about facebook's management. He, no I, this shows my ignorance about technology but I. There's nothing New People that listen to show I guess I'm wondering since facebook now is primarily older people. I think right twentysomethings. You're not using facebook very much. It's mostly older parents. GRANDPA parents that kind of stuff for the kids grand the pictures of the grandkids. Could there be a rival to facebook. That just wouldn't. You wouldn't be associating yourself with? This sort of I guess we're also sitting ourselves with Amazon and door dash a lot of places. Don't treat their workers that well, but. Could there be a rival a startup I mean obviously it wouldn't. FACEBOOK's reach all around the world. But it might be something an alternative for people. Not, not as such, there's nothing that does what facebook does and exactly that way. This is setting up for joke. Say Thank God, but what I really mean is that. There are many many parts of the world in which facebook is the Internet in order for the users who are inside that country This is why when a political group finds a way to manipulate the news feed. You can actually overthrow government or absolutely obliterate a second of society, because this is where this is where people go for all of their news and information, and it is facebook and instagram do trend older. Instagram less than facebook but most of those most of those people that would be on face would have been on facebook five years ago. They're actually using like. Using I message on on on phones or the using Tiktok, or of these these private messaging services discord is making a big deal, probably because it allows people to moderate their own communities because you don't have your only inviting in the people that you want to be your group with you so i. that's the difficulty. Is that I? Don't think there's going to be another opportunity for a company to develop as big as facebook has developed, and it's too, and the presence of facebook is way too important to many communities for. There to be sort of a leaving it on maths, and that's why I think this is a situation where we need the EU. We need the United States government to say we are going demand oversight. We have expectations for that. You're that you're not GonNa meet unless we put some pressure on you and pressure on you. We are going to apply. And you, can we look for a moment? Can we just be a little bit lighter, but also literally look up? I will say I'm disgusted at myself because I have not yet seen the comment. I sort of I, remembered trying to work it into my schedule at the beginning of this, and and now it's it's almost fading out of our view right, but we have help here. Yes now now the good news is that you were sort of halfway through the visibility of comment. Neil wise yesterday it was at its closest to the earth, so that was your closest to it, but tonight tomorrow the next several days. You'll still have good chance and I don't I. Don't blame you. I have made several attempts to go and see it, and I have like mosquito bites all the dumbest Lake to prove it and I keep getting photo bombed by clouds. Awful Yup a couple of weeks ago. I had I was going to do it. And then it was the clouds yeah Yup. But they're, they're couple tools. That I really. It's a good chance to tell people about this. An APP and a web service called delirium. S. T. E. L. L. A. R. I. U.. M. As in Mary as you can get for IOS and Android, and it really does the problem with finding comedy. Wise when they tell you. The Liaise Music Meteo shower is going to be at its peak time, and the instructors are always written by astronomers. Now obviously, you know where the Northstar is so I want you to go four quadrants down from that eighteen degrees from Paris and follow the tale of the bear like I. Don't know you lost very beginning. What's delirium does though. Is that it really is like a like a a stellar globe that yes, you can be like waiting for your train, and just like wanted the look at the look at the the star map, but the cool thing is like when you're trying to find out. Okay, where comment neo right now you can put it into augmented reality mode, and now it's tracking your movements when you hold this phone up and you can see the sky, but it will be like all the all the. The constellations will be labeled comet. Neil wise and its location will be labeled if the International Space Station is passing overhead or communication satellites. Have you turn on that layer information? You'll be able to see that stuff, and of course it all moves this viewfinder. You have on this guy. moves with you and it's just a fascinating thing to do. And I and I have still Larry I'm to blame for all. These insect bites because I I'm like you I have such a bad. Chance of bad experience I've great cameras. I love photography I've such a bad luck trying to get the clear skies when I need them. But when I looked at when I looked, I held up my neighborhood's Oh man, and I can point at to in the middle of the day. This is going to be I. Know that. It's GonNa be over the horizon over this beautiful little sort of like river. That's in protected wetlands. That is like A. House and if I can see it, that would be a gorgeous picture, and so that's why I keep coming back to try to see. If I can get this picture, I'll be very happy. But I'm going to have to like take pills to. Replace all the blood I'm losing. One more. That WANNA recommend though there's an APP called Son Surveyor. I didn't put this in the notes. 'cause I just remembered it. sometimes like you are You're trying to get a good picture or something, and you're thinking Oh, if only I could like move the sun from where it is now two right over here so it's getting direct sunlight, or if you're taking like graduation, pictures of your kids and here's A. Beautiful Bridge over river. The lighting is terrible. What this APP son surveyors also again an APP for us, and for Android you can actually plug in tell tell. Tell where you are. Tell them like the date. them the date, but you want to take the picture and it will actually predict where the sun and the moon are going to be in the sky, and you can actually fast forward and rewind, so you can actually determine that okay at four twenty one PM. The Sun is going to be beaming directly down on this part of the world and the exact same R-, the exact angle I want Have you ever been to? The public gardening saw the George White Memorial that. Beautiful Angel in the. Sky! I was so frustrated. Because every time the sun is usually at the back, and so I use this APP to say okay well this time and even time of year when the lighting is perfect and so man, it really is like seven twenty in the morning during the winter, and but but nonetheless I. I actually made a calendar appointment, because surveyor said if you really want a picture of this in beautiful sunlight, where we'll penetrate trae through the through the trees, here are the times and the days you're going to have to do that. That's all. It's. So. Andy NOCCO. Controversy Brewing about the United States army. East sports team was going on. A lot of people don't know that. But just like the the blue angels there to promote. Recruitment promote the military The United States army has their own east sports, team, meeting. Soldiers who are playing electronic games playing sports. Competitions and also streaming their games on twitch. Just like a lot of other people do because it's a good outreach. 'cause like young people are on twitch and. That's okay. That seems okay, but it's. They're causing a lot of difficulties that they probably didn't anticipate for one thing now I. Don't know if you've ever been on twitch or if you don't have been around Gamers, but there is. A there is a there is a cultural thing whereas you might say, mean spirited things. The comments stuff while Pierre Screaming. And trash-talking, maybe to the extreme, and so like twitch user probably would have done when some user started like making comments like hey, what's your favorite warcry man, and and also like making bring up, Eddie Gallagher Navy seal who got his wartime atrocities and so? They decided okay. Well, guess what use your banned from being able to watch our stream, and also deleting your comments, but as we have seen when when trump has tried to block people on twitter. Because this government twitch twitch side to blocked somebody from seeing the content leaving their comments is an abridgement of their first amendment rights because as citizens we have the right to communicate with our government, and so they're getting letters from the ACLU and other groups meanwhile the the entire eighteen. They've paused their entire. Twitch presence as they kind of hang back and reevaluate their policies and their procedures. But the the big heat they're getting is from representative Alexandra Calcio Cortez. She actually released. A added a draft amendment to current house. Appropriations spill a couple of days ago. That would specifically prevent the military from using any of these funds to and I quote maintain a presence on twitch, DOT COM, or any video game, east sports or live streaming platform, and she explained it on to a quote to the motherboard blog and quoting again. It's incredibly irresponsible for the army and the Navy to be recruiting impressionable young people and children via live streaming platforms. War is not a game and the marine. Corps is decision not to engage in this recruiting tool should be a clear signal to the other branches of the military to cease this practice entirely. She write. She might be I. I went when I was looking at this. I was also thinking okay. Does this mean that they can't sponsor a car in an Indycar? They can't have a booth at a fair or something like that, but the thing is. You are talking about a very very young market that may or may not be. That, you're sort of getting them in a space where their parents aren't there, you can have conversations with them. Make Impressions on them that they can't really process and they're also doing some I. Don't know if you call shady stuff, but they did. They did one thing where. They were putting into their livestream posts an automatic system was putting in. Hey, win a free elite xbox Controller Viscera Click on this link and the link doesn't go to like. Here's an here's an entry form for the big RAFFLE or whatever it goes to a recruitment form with no mention of like this elite controller You can get and so that's got a lot of people thinking that. You'RE GONNA be tricking people into your you're you're taking twelve thirteen fourteen fifteen year, old kids and trying to convince them that the military is all about just hanging out and playing games when it really is not VAT so I'm I'm I'm not one hundred percent behind the idea that they should not be participating in these sports, but they really do if they want to protect the decor and the integrity. Of the of the military, they have to behave as though they are under suspicion and act make sure that their behavior is completely aboveboard. Landy and NOCCO. Thank you as always. Gary! I I gotta try. 'cause I'm not I. Don't plan to be around six thousand years, and even if I am might have been. Warranty by then I don't know the worst part is supposed to be in Montana this week. which the perfect viewing! Dark. Light pollution open skies, but of course travel plans have changed so I'll have to get out of the city and I guess it's cheating too just to to program it into your iphone finally APP program. Leave it outside the mosquitoes the guy phone. That's cheating. you know I would I would I would. I will take a disgrace if it comes with a nifty photo above. Green wetland with over the Herron. In front of the scene. All right well, thank you so much great weekend. Andy NOCCO joins US regularly. He's tech, writer and blogger. You can find his work at dot co Dot Com and you can follow him at NATO. Coming, up artists are giving confederate monuments makeover by literally and figuratively shedding a light on the civil rights movement. Callie Crossley is here for that and more on nine seven W. G.. B.! H. Boston public radio. This. Is Boston public. Radio Jerry Berman is Jim Brown and joining us as she does. Every Friday is the host of under the radar with Callie Crossley that would of course be. Crossing Hi Kelly I'm marjory. Hi, jared like alley. So Kelly is jared said before going into the break. Artists around the country. Everyone knows there's been a big controversy about the confederate flag confederate monuments. The military other places are saying of these confederate, certainly the confederate flag confederate moderate Mon monuments skews me, but some artists have done. Really interesting things. Shining lights literally on some of these. Memorabilia and statues and monuments from the confederacy. Tell us about what's going on well. This is in Virginia and actually it's. One artist. He's a lighting artist. His name is Dustin Klein and shortly after George Floyd's death. He took his equipment and went down to a monument circle in Virginia. And some may know is quite famous, because it's a huge statue of Robert L.. E. even his great great grandson has said this needs to come down, but there's been ongoing battle about removing it. In any case. He took his equipment, and just put on the statue, blocking out the statue picture of George Floyd, and it got such a good response that then he started putting up other pictures, so Harriet Tubman wkbd boys. You name it and most recently John Lewis and the result was that it became kind of a gathering space. It had been a point of departure for some of the protests. So now it's a space for families and. Large community groups. It's still a protest site. The base of the statue which people can access because statues, actually quite tall people have written poems and comments, or whatever, but the the pictures that are that are displayed on the monument. Itself are quite stunningly beautiful through. The equipment that this Justin client is doing and as he said himself. It's kind of haunting to see the pictures up there and watch the people as they come up and sometimes there's a comment along with the picture they read. The comments interact with each other in the daytime. They have cookouts. They they You know carry on with the protests, but it's really become a gathering space and I thought. Wow, what a way to reinvent in the moment. Wait for the statue to come down. Do something right now. Well I have begun to wonder as I speak even before this in these images are sunny in wonderfully. We've seen this here in Boston to with some great. Great local artists who projected images around the city because it is so effective in so deeply resonant, but as I started to see what was happening as you mentioned at the base of the statue where people have access, and you see the the spray paint in the poems in in how essentially the the monument has been re purposed before our eyes, I wonder if that now changes or will begin to change the conversation so that perhaps it should stay because it has very much come to represent something else now. Well, I think that the conversation would have to be if this artistic piece is GonNa. Stay as well and I. Don't know how you know how that would go, but. Maybe if the two are happening, that's one thing. I will say one thing. That's so interesting to me to look at it as you as you've seen the pictures Jarrett, is that once you project this very intense light onto the onto the statue and the base. It really puts the Statue Shadow, so you can't see it at all. It's like a backdrop. It's like some you know backdrop. You don't even need to see. It's really interesting. And they have the. On this one statue of Lee. The yellow black lives matter letters across the horse. Yeah, he's he's writing on so it does. It does change anything really dramatic way I love the woman John Lewis. It's just it's just got such great expression, but even in daylight with sorry. With all that color now exactly on the pedestal, it becomes kind of remove. Of course, the intend to what it represents has become quite a beautiful thing. I would argue yeah. I would argue that too and I love public art anyway, so this and I love public art that sort of groves. Organic. Of A moment, this is why I appreciate it Christo as well. I know his wasn't as organic, but because he was thoughtful about what he was trying to say, but but I. I enjoyed how he integrated what he was trying to say in environment, and so this is what's happening here with the Robert e Lee Statue. So. Muir who the great environmentalists is being looked at speaking of New Light in a New Light. What's going on? Well this is interesting. If anybody's ever traveled to California and gone through for the tour through the Muir Woods Duh. Together. Until now we'll slow in the takeout. That was named after John Muir who is as they described the patron saint of the American wilderness, and he founded the nation's oldest conservation organization the Sierra. Club but he was problematic, and this was not a secret. This is not something that's just been known. People have known about it for a long time back in the day. He wants referred to African Americans as lazy. Sambo's he. Somebody was recounting a walkie did to the Gulf of Mexico, and he described native Americans as dirty I. Mean You you get the drift of where he was coming from, but lots of folks felt that what he was doing for the environment. We could just overlook that, and just you know build on his legacy of trying to protect the environment and really significant ways. Well that's sort of been the underpinning of a lot of these environmental or And finally in this moment African American and other minority of employees are pointing out you know what green groups just because being green is progressive doesn't mean that within the institution itself you all are are acting as. Are appreciating what it means to be progressive, so this really interesting thing happened. Excuse me, Ruth Tyson who is an employee at the Union of concerned scientists. Was So frustrated. She sat down to write an emails to sort of detail. Many of the things that she sized problematic is supposed to be just a real short email, and then at the end of. She said she was going to say and I quit well by the time she got done, she'd written seventeen pages of a very clear criticism, and she sent to two hundred people. And the two hundred people or some of the ones that got it. Of the top people they said well. You know what she actually is right, says the guy the organization's president. He said he read the letter several times he realized. This is a larger issue. That there were many things as she pointed out that they had either dismissed or not paid attention to, and he said it just hasn't been welcoming for persons of color, so they're going to go about the business of trying to diversify the board diversify their perspective, their outlook, the whole nine yards, and this is expanded to other green groups as well for them to take sort of an internal look. I think it's particularly interesting because environmental racism for a lot of people, is something not a concept. They understand, but I became aware of when thinking about those. Gasoline big huge gasoline tanks down in Louisiana situated near. African American communities the devastation. They're really strong. African American environmental groups grew out of that. But you know often people don't know about their existence and believe it or not. I learned about just sort of folks hanging out in the green groups. Okay, this is gonNA. Sound really. PUT It out there. When Oprah was doing her road trip with Gail years ago on her show, they stopped in the park national. Park and the ranger was black. And and she said I didn't know there were any. Ever GonNa American ranges, and he said well has a whole history, did the whole thing and for a while? He was sort of like a mini celebrity, but it opened a window to. All these other people who've been working in this arena, but they're not that many of them, and then, of course we know most recently, there was Christian Cooper. The black burder who kate rose to fame because of anchor, calling the cops on him in central part, so people have been a part of these organizations, but how the organizations have dealt with the either. Either their employees or people who supported them in advocacy groups has been not as welcoming as it should be according to the president himself and they're about to try to change that you know that to that. This is a little bit adjacent, but I talked about on this show not too long ago in a new documentary that's out called picture of scientists. This is a woman who's not necessarily working the field of environment but racial burkes is one of three female scientists who were profiled in everything. They've had to endure. She is a woman of Color She's a professor of Analytical Chemistry at American. University is just unbelievable. So you have a sense of what this field again we're not talking about environmental field other another scientists, a white woman working in the Arctic is profiled in the documentary. But you just understand the for a long time. There has been no welcome mat rolled out. People are treated horribly, and this is how these issues develop, especially when we're holding onto these long histories right and their intellect dismissed or not appreciated and. What would it be like if we embraced all that? People were bringing to the table. Well, that's exactly what she says that she has spent so much time. Just dealing with things that people that men don't have to deal with in terms of fending off racism fending off, the abuse because she's a woman being called. People, assuming she's a janitor because she's working late at night that she hasn't been able to devote all the time that she would like to have devoted her career to her science, right and and episode time so I mean if the Sierra, club if we have this conversation a year from now and the Sierra, club has moved to do some things because the organization's presidents read a very critical seventeen page letter and said okay can't disagree. WHAT ARE WE GONNA? Do about it. Let's do something that'll be. That'll be definitely movement. We're talking to Callie Crossley. Kelly a lot of Because some part, the coronavirus has been entr tremendous rise in Asian Anti Asian harassment What are people doing about it? Well. It's interesting this has been. I wrote about this one of my commentaries and Very early on when Kovic started and the stay at home, because I was a little bit shocked. To witness some of the harassment to hear from friends of mine, who are Asian American about it, so there's been There's that to deal with There are now some attempts to reach out from all the incidents that have happened in to. Make people more aware of it, so there's a group doing some PSA's. To. You know distribute them in hope. People pay attention to the message with, and they're promoting hashtags like I am not covid nineteen. Racism is a virus health. Not Hate. Make some noise today. Featuring Asian American folks who can say you know what's happened to them, and also that this is not right. So! That's one way that's a positive way. At the same time you know here in Boston has been an ongoing conversation between An. Organization trying to come to grips with its own role, say some members, not everybody agrees with this, but some of the members of the of the organizations say we need to acknowledge his Asian Americans that we have a history of anti blackness in our community that we want to deal with you know forthrightly and that we've also had some proximity to white privilege you know. Believe me. This is. There they don't get a pass, but they're recognizing that sometimes. It's a little easier in some situations. For them, so it became a a kind of a big deal is back and forth discussion about it and. The group. This is a commission. And the Asian American Commission was trying to figure out if they could put forth. A letter in support of the black lives matter, movement shouldn't have been that difficult, but it sort of devolved into whether or not they wanted to have very specific references to quote deep roots of anti blackness, and quote his proximity to write privilege and some of the commissioners commissioners were offended by that and said Hey. We want to support black lives matter but we. We dismissed the fact that there's you know we're. We're coming to grips with a deep roots of anti blackness. Now say this. When crazy rich agents came out the very popular movie. Times. I've seen it a billion times and kill me. SHOWS UP ON TV I'm watching a game I had them on my show. Them! I had some critics. Come in to deconstruct. These are Asian Americans. With film and cultural. Expertise to deconstruct the movie from a positive representations, viewpoint and anything else. They wanted to raise and one of them. Race something I honestly had not paid attention to because I was enthralled which refers to this anti blackness, and noted that the Dark Skin Asians in the movie where the bad guys nephew go back to the movie. role up to the mansion for the first time the people that come out of the woods almost to say, who are you and why are you coming up to the house? We're all dark skinned Asians I honestly did not pay attention to that and she did, and she said this is a this is a thread we we need to pay attention to. She said it made me uncomfortable. I want to celebrate the whole thing, but I want us to recognize that even in our implicit bias. We. WanNa. Pay attention to. So. It was interesting you got when you watch the next time I pay attention. Yeah, I'm just curious. What is it about a crazy rich? Asians, that has you watch him multiple times as it just the final story lines Cinderella. What's the story I loved the acting as great. I, love the scene settings the set. Whoever did that all that stuff? and. Some of the lines are just hilarious and you know nobody gets killed. I just love it. You know it's just a nice move so I should watch it I should watch that you've never seen it. Oh My. Jared speak to her. Are you kidding also just different for the fact that the first time in what twenty years or more? Than Twenty years that you found an all Asian cast leading immune Hollywood film and it was fabulous. Each one of them were I. mean is please. You really all right pop some popcorn and watch this weekend. That, we're talking about. Okay now Kelly. Cross We had yet another story we've had. Stories. We've talked about I. Think with you and other people weeks about right here in Massachusetts these just insane racist attacking people that are trying to be nice to them, and I said to myself. Is this is this? Is this These people nuts do they have mental health problems, or they just nasty people? I don't know I'm going to ask you. Tell us about this fourteen year old kid who got all the donuts well this report? Yes, so so young man named Peter. osas zoo zoo I I'm sure I'm mispronouncing his name, your long-term resident of Newburyport, he and his family, his sisters, and his mother and They key went to Dunkin donuts with his friends because. He knew he was going to get some extra doughnuts because the Dunkin donuts whereas. Offering him more before an apology because they got his order wrong earlier, so they gave him more so now you can imagine how many doughnuts fourteen year old and his friends can eat so. Just think about this. They had to be a lot of donuts because they say as much as they could. And they still had more, so they were like okay. We can't eat the rest of them. So why don't why don't we nice? So? They had leftovers and Peter just stranger on the street. This guy and he says hi. Would you like a free doughnut? We just got extra for this and the guy flew into a tirade called him the N. word. Just over and over again. Shocked this young man and his friends apparent other people were shocked and stunned around him. They came up and tried to intervene. The Guy continued to shout. Video of the episode. And then he as the globe says he drove off in a Lexus sedan and someone asked him. What did you call him just to confirm, are we? Are we hearing right and shouted again through there? Yeah, so, what do you make of this Oh, please, this is. I'm not surprised I mean. My heart breaks for fourteen year old Peter because I just don't want any kid to have to be reminded. Every day or even every other day that you know there are people out there who are going to respond to you in that way, no matter what so that that is, that's horrible and it breaks for. His Mom who by the way Peter didn't tell her his friends told her. They were so upset about it. Thank you, so that means that he's begun to internalize some of these things and you never get rid of it. It's always a part of you. And that's just so sad to me I'm sure it started earlier in his life, but she said in the last year or so all of a sudden it's become. Even more egregious and I would say that's because he's older and. Young Black Man older. That's that. Implied threat to a lot of. That's what happens. There's an extraordinary quote in this globe piece speaking of his mother. She said this I told him next time. Somebody calls in the N. Word or any kind of word. He should just tell the person I love you and walk away. How extraordinary is that for mother to be able to say that? In the midst of all of this hate that she knows that her son had to witness in front of his own community, which is the worst part? Yeah and I'm sure it left. His friends shaken as well. So it's. It's I. Mean I I'm not I'm not shocked by it? I'm not I'm not surprised by it. I just my heart breaks for him that he had to endure it and then and that he will internalize it. So you don't think because one of the things I was thinking. Is that We had a caller earlier that was object into the black lives matter. Banners at Fenway, on I'm nine and ninety, and said you know the the old thing about old lies, marriage didn't see this racial problem in America at all, and I wonder whether some of this stuff is is the backlash that you hear about all the time of of of. You know the Donald Trump. The backlash to Barack Obama. That kind of thing, well, of course it. And people have taken the black lives matter statement and twisted it. It's not black. Lives only matter only black lives matter. It's black. Lives matter to that all of us. And making a affirmative statement is quite radical in the sense that. There hadn't been one before people were just having to face these kinds of incidents or be shot in the back, or the all the other horrible things. We've seen along with George Floyd. With a Neon, his neck, and dying literally in front of the entire nation, and it's a you know so so it's an affirmative statement to say despite all of that people have to understand black lives matter to I. Don't know why people can't get that I. Don't know why that feels threatening to people. No one has said only black lives matter. Don't get it. Cal Cal got about a minute left. What's on your show this week? Oh I'm doing A. One of my favorite encores. Because it's a great time in the summer, sometimes to replace my favorite segments, and one of them's alluvial feels kinda interesting. Because when we did the peace corps, nobody was staying at home, but we're a special segment on stay at home, dads and the particular kinds of. Impacted both choosing to stay at home what what the relationships they have with their kids as a result of that how it's different from other dads who don't stay at home, and how that's changed over time in terms of how they're perceived or not. A lot of these guys are are in organizations with other men who do the same thing. It's really interesting. also because nobody can travel, so it's really poignant now to think about these having these segments before. Great author of a book that went to all these interesting places at one could travel to. And paired the the literary pieces to the places so some around here some around the country. It's real fun, niece. Yeah, it is so Kelly. That sounds great. Thank you, thank you so much I'm glad you get in a little night off good for you. I don't who said that. Run The. I'll be. Okay Don't take any time off Alex. Stone. Thank, you, thank you Kelly Cross to use the host of under the radar with Kelly which you can get Sunday nights right here at eighty, nine, seven at six o'clock, or you can subscribe to her under the radar podcast on itunes follow her on twitter at Kelly Cross sleep up next the pandemic, despite the pandemic rather for grammy-winning singer-songwriter Lori McKenna. The show must go on McKenna. That means going online. She joins us. Thanks on eighty nine seven W. G. B.. H., Boston public radio. Welcome back to Boston Public Radio Jared Bowen is in for Jim Brady Lori McKenna the grammy. Award winning singer Songwriter Musician is debut in her new album. Today is titled the Ballad, dear a term for someone who sings about intimate experiences and aptly fishy intimacy of her performing Special Acoustic version of the ballad year in your very own living, room, or backyard, or kitchen, or wherever it is, you watch streaming content. That's because tonight eight o'clock Lori. McKenna will perform a live stream concert from the famed. Famed Club passing all donations made during McKenna's performance will benefit club passing, which is temporarily moved online and streaming shows nightly throughout the pandemic Lori McKenna. Welcome back to Boston public radio so great to have you here. Thank you guys. Thanks for having me I appreciate it so much. Thank you so much for those who don't know you titled Your. Album the ballad year, which is as I just said about intimate experiences in life, so tell people a little bit about who Lori McKenna is don't know. Well I It's funny I. You know you've heard that term so many times over the years and I just it struck me one night and I thought Oh. That's what I do. Because I tend to write a lot a balance I I have been writing songs for you know. Since I was a teenager and my husband and I live in Stoughton Massachusetts. And I traveled a Nashville and write songs for living basically and travel around and sing them, and I thought Oh that that title works for me. The story isn't about me. The song itself, but I love the. The idea of that being the name of the record. Well a lot of people you're describing your album is really. This is your most personal, but anybody who's been listening to you over the years. No, is that you you tell stories and about family, and about life and people probably know that you have a family. You have five kids and you've been married for a really long time, so. Do you feel like you're being more introspective in this album. I think that It's funny I. Keep trying to make records that are less personal. The opposite. I'm obviously really. Absorbed I feel like I'm such. A self absorbs all right like Oh, here's another one about that relates to. What a surprise! Let. No No, no, we love that. Okay I'm self absorbed because it's universal personal. Everybody's in those same situations lawyer. A lot of us are in the same situations. Well that is what I do. Try to I do try to find that that's what I love about songs like this. In general, these domestic songs that I tend to be drawn to is how we can all see ourselves. In each other's stories, it's got. Maybe it's like a group therapy or But but yeah I I really I feel like the songs over the years. I just maybe pay more attention to what's happening to us. All as we get older and our kids start to leave the house and our parents are to need help and things like that these things that happened to most of us. You know and I think that. When our kids were little in all underfoot, and I was writing song, they were probably a little bit more less. Introspective and they are now we'll before we get to into the interview. We want to give people a sense of the new album through the song. Good fight, but before we play a little bit of that. Tell us tell us about this song in your your inspiration here. Yeah. This song I wrote with Liz Rose and Hillary. Lindsey I actually wrote it in Nashville with the two of them, but it started at home. Here in Stoughton my husband gene is his name. He works for the Gas Company and he called one afternoon, and just said all gonNa work a little late today and I just I was kidding with him, and we've been married for thirty one years, and I was kidding with him, and I'm still working overtime. And it started really with that idea of like. Wow like we've been doing this for so long away. Still all doing our. We're still doing our things together that. Fight it out. The hard stuff that for the better of you know to to make ourselves better make our lives better. Make our our relationships better, and it really decided with that little joke of just teasing him and being like well. That's kind of what were made out of. We're made of these like these good fights that we played through. You'll hear a lot of life in this one as promised. Here's a bit of good fight from your new album Zabala, dear! So Easy So easy. So easy it again a bag. With. The. Stay. down. So, thirty one years with gene. It's about gene. It's not about gene. How does gene feel? A part of your music. For Gene, all. I can say is that man is amazing? He's really good he. We've been married for so long and really like we were married for years before I even started leaving my house with songs, so he knows how my songwriter brain works, and how it might start truly with him, or it might start one of the kids or you know conversation. But it the the thing about songs. Is You have to rhyme? And you don. We'll take you somewhere else, so he doesn't take things too personally. Thank God. Because otherwise I wouldn't be able to put out half the songs I do, but he's. He's really just amazing about about that. Yeah I heard your interview with John a couple of years ago. Where Utah at your side of the bed. Marriage around the floor. But tell US Lori McKenna. We're speaking with Lori. McKenna and a new album called the ballad. Tell us. You say you grow up in Stoughton been married for thirty one years. You've got the five kids started going public with your songs. But how does that happen that somebody WHO's writing songs? A mom in Stoughton winds up getting her songs recorded by Tim McGraw Faith Hill Little Tunnel these big huge. People in Nashville. How did that come about? So that came about because of places like passing where you know, we're playing tonight, and just part being part of the Boston Community of. singer songwriters. We have such a rich community of live music in in Boston and I came up with people like Mark Rally and Mary goes, and Mary Shay moved to Nashville in two thousand and three in two thousand and four, put out a record, and she gave it to a publisher who then gave it to basically faith hill, and that's how I'd only been to national one time and that, but that's how I got my. It's really a I. I explained to people in the way that it's like I won the lottery the career lottery without like playing the. It's really like now. That I know how the system works I. Really it was a blessing. It was just I was the lucky I still am just such a lucky person in my career I've put the work in. You know you have to follow the luck with work. There's so much luck involved in especially. How I got my start in this I was curious I I you know I i. don't even. Even realize this the first time we spoke for open studio, but you were. Is this right twenty seven or twenty eight? By the time you? You began stepping out of the house and performing and embarking on this, which a lot people would think is probably a little bit later. We we see all these young stars who emerged now having so much to say people like Taylor, swift and their teenage years. Is that the normal process or did you feel like it took more time for you? I did I really didn't yeah, you're right. I didn't leave the house really started doing open mic so I think I was twenty seven somebody you know my sister. Andrea finally talked me into going to an open mic, but I had a very supportive family that was telling me Oh. You should try this. You should try this, but I just didn't have the confidence to do it for so long, so I was about ten years. You know nine years older than most of the people I was coming up. Up in the in in that, you know that sort of graduating class of you know the the past team open mics, and and I sort of was a lot older than than a lot of the kids starting for me, it was the right time. I guess I'm a late bloomer in a lot of ways, but I. You know we have three kids. By the time I started doing open mics, and I always felt like well. If this doesn't work, you know I got I. got this great family. His family always protected me in that you know. We talked about our about how your husband reacting to some of these songs I know. A while ago, you had that song that was recorded by Tim McGraw. humbling kind about your advice. Your kids were great advice. To your kids? How do they feel especially when they were teenagers about mom? Out here writing personal stories of domestic living. Yeah the my kids are really good about it. As well I mean my kids were you know grew up in all this and they're just so used to being in the basement writing room. writing songs down there and they. They know that it's just like it's been such a great. It's been a really great part of our lives together. It's taken us a lot of places and I. Always Kid about how kind you know. I wrote that one day when the kids were all at school, my youngest was ten twenty five and and I wrote that one day, and they knew that that that that was their song, but it really wasn't until you know. Timofey came through to Boston and play the garden I think it was two thousand seventeen, and and Tim played the song, and we all got to hold each other. I always kid them like. You didn't listen to me when I sang a illicit. Right. So what is the writing process like for you now? I know that you you you basically you. Didn't of course where you live, you travel to Nashville frequently to right, and to collaborate of course that presumably can happen in the midst of this pandemic. So how has that shaped shaped your process? And how is just this new world informed? You're writing. Yes so the way that it's going. I am actually busier now than I have been in a long time. Because of you know just writing online and I've been writing almost every day. on zoom, and and being able to collaborate with people in La much easier than normal, and in the UK of had a bunch of rights with writers in the UK and in La, like with mostly with people in Nashville, but we usually spend you know three or four hours a day writing songs, and you know it's for for someone who has a creative outlet in a time like this it's. It's just been such a blessing to be able to just sort of block everything out and try to rhyme for a little while and come up with a little song but it's been you know it's. It's definitely been I. missed the live shows especially putting out a record I feel like being able to play tonight at Hasheem, even though we'll be the only ones there is is just a blessing, because it will make me feel like at least I'm doing something I couldn't bear the thought of doing a livestream for my basement I called pass. Even can we please do this? So what what will it? We'll be talking to Lori McKenna. The new album is valid year. What will it be like tonight at eight o'clock at club passing? Is it going to be two people three people for people what's going to be? Yeah they'll. They'll be a few of us in the room because Matt Smith, who runs sounds and written takes care of everybody passing. We'll be there taking care of all the technology that I. Don't understand and there'll be a camera person, but basically on stage with me, myself and Maka Rally And and we'll just you know we'll just stand on either side of that stage and I don't know exactly what it's. GonNa feel like, but I know that. It will be. Like passing being my home venue, just my heart is is so much there. It'll feel. I'm just GONNA. Try to connect with the idea that people are able to listen and watch on their computers, or you know. However they do it it it. It'll be different for sure, but I'm. I'm still I'm really excited about it. Still you know we've been very home based in like you said about Nashville I missed traveling to national usually I. go twice a month, and I haven't done that at all so they this will feel so my heart. A little bit I think was the other great part of this is that we know that the tonight's concert? Concert Benefits Club. Passing and ultimately musicians musicians have been hit so hard by this pandemic, because they just saw their income evaporate overnight and anybody who knows they're. They're folk music history. Their music history in this country knows how foundational club Hasheem is in that history, and and how it remains such an an important venue, so give us a sense of what you've realized. And obviously you reached out to them because you knew that this could be a great source of of philanthropy for people about what it's like to industry for people who suddenly don't have the means to perform. Well I. think that you know. I don't think any of us really imagined ever a time. Where where there'd be no more La-. There'd be no live shows at least for a while and to watch it. All sort of disappear has been kind of shocking in a way and also just like when is it gonNA. Come back when you know. 'cause we obviously none of us. None nobody knows, but it just as far as venues I. Think for the most part most of my circle of friends that do this for a living. They've they're finding these other ways doing the streaming, the fans have been amazing. The listeners have been amazing in support of that because they're saying well, we need it to, and they've been so amazing with donations to whatever the causes or to the bands you know who are trying to pay their crews and things like that. As far as the venues. We're GONNA. Really be you know in trouble if when this all turns around, the venues aren't able to still be there because. You know so. It made perfect sense to me. Passing does so much outreach. They do so much for the school. There's all these things that they do the Iguana Fund. They support so much. Of what the reason that we love! The Boston music community is is really has a lot to do with passing and they're like. You said they're legendary. You know in in in without them would be. would be lost, and so it just made sense for it all to you know for the donations to go back to pass him in. They're working so hard to keep people involved and keep people. To to the knees, so it's it's really I'm excited about it. You Lori McKenna, I read where you know you talked about how you grew up listening to carly. Simon Neil Young Carol young and stuff, but you cal king rather not, but you're not a folk musician really and you're not totally a country musician. Americana is at the term for the music that you specialize in. I think that's the name now. David. James says I'm not sure WHO's in charge of the naming, but. Take. But they shake seem to evolve. You know the the name seemed to change. I feel like. When I started early on it was, it was considered Boca people would say oh Boston a rich folk community, which which we do, and I would always try to just live music singer songwriter. Whatever you WANNA call it, but Americana does really work for me. The I think about it. It's kind of that in between you know folk and country. You know it's SORTA. The Way I think of it in my head is these are songs about people in the conversations they have in their kitchen and kitchens, my favorite word. I feel like so much. Alive happened in our kitchen and so I just I've sort of embrace the word Americana. It works for me these are. Stories about just. Ge Ordinary lives and the extraordinary things that happened to us all in our ordinary lives. Will you know this GonNa show my ignorance about the history of. Music and folk music for that matter, but I'm wondering whether you. Always heard. Star can't pay the rent and the car. The batteries dead I can't. Did you know that all that stuff that you that you hear? But I'm wondering whether there's been more of a renaissance for women talking about domestic details of their lives, or if that was always, there is, this is why I do more newer or or not. I think it's always been there and that's always part of the conversation when people talk about. Women represented on country radio, and is yeah beginning of their representation when you look back on and I don't know the history very well, either so I'm with you on this, but when you look back on what women have been saying in songs you know for for always women are usually the ones that are kind of bringing up the. The little details that make up our lives women are usually the ones that are bringing up the hard details or the divorce or the. What do we do with the kids or you know? How do we work and take care of the kids? And how do we do this? And so it's funny because I feel like the hard conversations have been led by mostly women always probably insults, music, and as well as as a country music. On that point I WANNA ask about this stage of life that you find your find yourself in I. Think You put you played? When we last together, you played your song. People get old, which just so resonated with me as I find myself aging. This Y, you're such a brilliant grammy winning songwriter for the way that you put it all together. But, is this an especially rich time? Do you think as you consider the ages of your children and the generation? That's come before you. I, think so I think, and that's what I meant about this. This time and everyone gets to this point in their lives where. if they don't have kids watching their friends evolve, and they were you know their relationships change, and I think we all have this. These you know I'm I'm fifty one and there's this time between like maybe forty and and I don't know yet. What, but were you just they? Just feel things more and I think you can be more practical with your emotions a little bit because you know it's coming, but you can. There's a space where you can see yourself. In your parents. And also in your children at the same time, but there's it's like you're in the this this space where you can just see it all kind of clearly. and I think if you pay attention to it. That's where we find sort of a a lot of answers about. Ourselves, even even figure. You should be You know. Obviously we're trying to be self reflective always, but I think there's this kind of like. Growing in the age that I am in. That most people do experience. I can tell you I never. Turn off a light switch now without thinking of you as I. Wrote about it that song, I carried it from my father in particular, and I think when did that happen? Yeah I probably told you this before Jar, but my dad worked for Boston Edison for forty. All my goodness. Oh my goodness lights. Is That's? Why didn't he just jeep? And now I am fairly going into the room and turning off. To. Pay Laura. Thank you so much and congratulations on another terrific Alma and very excited about tonight at eight o'clock. Thank you so much, thank you guys for having me today. And for the music I appreciate it such a absolute. Thank you. Thanks Guys Lori. McKenna is a Grammy Award winning singer, songwriter and musician. Her new album is the ballot dear tonight at eight o'clock Lori. McKenna will perform Kucic livestream concert from club pass seem all donations made during McKenna's performance will benefit club passing, which has temporarily moved online in his streaming shows nightly throughout the pandemic. Well. Thank you listening to another edition of. Radio tune in Monday for all revved up with that reverend. Irene Monroe in number price and TV expert Bob Thomsen our crews. Chelsea Murders Arjuna Singh Zoe, Matthews. Hannah. Hughley. Aidan Connolly are engineers John. The Claw Parker are engineers are mild, Smith and Dave, old-style. Thank you so much for filling in today for Jim. Brady will be back on Monday thanks a lot jibed on. It's been fun driving all the open studio tonight. Oh, go ahead! I'm sorry. Go ahead tonight on open studio. We'll take the icy a one of the first museums to reopen sense of a new museum normal. spreaker bagging smelling and seeing a museum again. I think I always associated that smell of museums were arguing and also fell artist. Inka shown a bar a WHO has a brand new sculpture on the Rose Kennedy being weighing us. A Perspective of his story is really well known British Nigerian artist talking to us from London just fabulous. MARGERY EAGAN Jared Bowen. Thank you so much for tuning in pleased to again on Monday had a wonderful weekend. Pray. By all. The. owner. Good.

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BPR Full Show 11/17/20: Decoration Warp Speed

Boston Public Radio Podcast

2:45:40 hr | 11 months ago

BPR Full Show 11/17/20: Decoration Warp Speed

"Support for boston. Public radio comes from cure. Alzheimer's fund committed to accelerating the cutting edge research. That will bring an end to the devastation of alzheimer's disease. More at cure. Al dot org. That's cure a l z dot. Org public radio new frontline documentary presents. A post-election look lives fears and hopes of americans through tumultuous twenty twenty tracks community response from coburg lockdowns to george floyd and beyond taylor to the polls. Just a few minutes. Mike chamois from join us to preview. The film then will ask you if your tolerance for others. Potion has grown or disappear impresses entity. It's possible the miami marlins have hired as general manager making her the first female g and major league baseball history. Her career began thirty years ago as intern for the chicago. White sox was intend to build a career herself in a male dominated space. Nbc sports report attorney will join us to discuss any and other news. The sports world ahead on boston. Public radio eighty nine seventh. Gp h your body margery eagan. You're listening to boston. Public radio eighty nine seven. Gp h good morning. Jim tear myself away from me reading. Donald trump's tweets so move on to something else. Get back to that later for nearly a year. Frontline travel the country document. Merrick's have been reacting someone most fraught issues of our time from the pandemic to the murder of floyd in the end. We see how these experiences played out of the ballot box. It's called american voices a nation in turmoil and the many things. This documentary does at least for me. It certainly illuminates the challenge. Joe biden faces and following through on his vow to unite america. American voices a nation in turmoil. Airs tonight on. Pbs at ten. You can also find it online at pbs dot org slash flint frontline. We're joined by filmmaker. Mike shem mike congratulations and welcome to the show. Thank you so much. Hey thank you very much for joining us mike. So tell us exactly what what we're trying to do here. That's a good question i think. Originally the idea was sort of born out of this. Need for historical posterity. I think My colleagues and i knew that we were both in very unpredictable. Time but also an incredible one so i think We felt it was important to really see how people going through this process. Way starting back in march. Well you know. I can actually It's funny. I'm going to tell filmmaker but i think you said i was released. -ccomplish you know we all intellectually how divided this country is but seeing and hearing people in their homes in their businesses. Doing what they do just in their normal mundane lives really changes. The dynamic at least it did for me. Did it for you in making this. Well you sort of highlighted own how you saw side but to be frank from the beginning. We weren't sure We weren't entirely sure that was going to be about the divergence of perspectives. But because we're following it over time. I think we didn't get to see Our characters people we've been following. We show who they are. And i think about those kinds of The sort of the beautiful part about all this. When got closer and closer to the election we are so instant their characters by and they really were showing an illuminating their their fears and hopes around this time. So we didn't set out to do that. But it naturally came forward as our cinematographers really. We'll get close to their characters. As i said in the introduction it's sort of divided in covid nineteen post george floyd killing and the election One of the first characters we see. Is this guy. Gary gordon a senior pastor of the cornerstone world outreach in sioux city iowa. Here's a little bit of pastor gordon. Last sunday morning i drove past menards. Menards is lumbering yard. Hundreds of cars and only a quarter mile away. My church in contrast i know is empty. Because they've said the church is not essential. The church is not essential in time of crisis with imminent death in a pandemic. the church is not essential but menards can stay open. Someone might need to buy a screwdriver. Defensive and i think i wanna make sure i got occurred gordon right later. You return to church when he is allowed to have people in and it appeared to me there. A lot of people there and very few mass was that was that correct. That's correct yes Yes i loved at the beginning when you were talking about people. Having to adapt dacoven was barry miller. I think his name was. The barber was a shutdown his barbershop. But what did he do to make it a living when he shut down his barbershop. Where do it anywhere he could think. Brian you know bring more. He well. I mean really quickly at Carry gordon for example. I think the start he. He has very opinions. But it's not something i wanted to get away of. I understood is concerned perspective. And you know. He was willing and ready to open his church at any given point when he felt allowed. And that's kind of the same with brian's in that a lot of us and a lot of people in america at at this time we are adapting trying to find their own way. And and i think brian is a very good example of someone found his own way. And it's not just his own way in which is he needed to he need to an income And and that's that's a big part of the story of this of this year Economic turmoil i love was. I'm sorry i have. I have i. I'm sorry the barber anyway. He's somebody's hair outside at a bus. Stop stop on a bench hair. He goes into this. Looks like the the where the warehouse or something. All these boxes were in some in some the back of some store or something and he went to where the people were and and said you know we had to pay the bills so i thought that the resilience and the ingenuity there was really kind of neat. Was anybody else in the covid part. That really just stuck out for you. Mike may i think Let's see there's so many characters and we've been falling so many for so long so i think I have several but koran lewis Who is you know Which is a on the other side of patrick. Cary gordon who wants history the open. She found some solace in being able to stay at home and actually do turtur service with their ipad and so She she. She's she's learned to adapt narrow way Psychologically speaking well. She stayed at home until she didn't stay at home and she was unbelievable. Here's a little sound from her. This is she lives in north chesterfield. Virginia listen to her. Decided one sunday and said you know what i'm stepping out on faith. I'm going down to see what it's about. I kept seeing it on the news. And i just did not believe the way media was portraying it that it was that bad understand. I'm sixty three deadly afraid of covert but it's worth it to come out and show my support. I met some terrific people had great conversations with people. Use the diversity is what makes me feel good about the black and whites are coming out here as long as catch one dirty cop at a top one dirty racist dirty politicians dirty lawyer. I'm happy one out of ten because this is four hundred years of this. Yeah and by the way. I think they were talking about taking down some confederate monuments and statues. And you you juxtaposed that with what seems to be an incredibly decent woman. Who's a florist set of business in cool california. I think she says she's been working on it for a couple of decades after she set up. I don't remember a table outside her house. With a few flowers here here is rosy my feelings with the black lives. Matter is all lights matters not just black not peak white or purple. It's not just one race. I think it's wrong. Basically what the officer did. I think he should pay price for what he did. I look back in history. I have a great great grandfather that helped with the saves. he helped run the underground railroad. He was ambushed by white people. Who felt the slave should stay slave so you know when they sit there and say every white person is racist or bad. I'm not racist. I'm not bad. I'm human being. I respect them. I expect to be respected sense of by the way we're talking to mike shem whose film on frontline will air tonight american voices the nation jeremiah. You get a sense that the people who you followed for much of this year understood people who didn't think like them any better munson than they did at the beginning of this thing question I'm not entirely sure. I think there's what was unique about. This year is that we're sort of contending with multiple events sort of having to put ourselves position to really be challenged with our own views of what's what what is happening The election included. And so i think there's a combination answer there. No one is. I don't know that people understood how the other quote unquote the other side. was speaking at the same time we live in a world of social at the moment. So we're projecting those aspects of ourselves constantly and i think What we are trying to do at least this carson. I was to sort of show that the projections themselves are quite extreme yet. When you really sit down with someone sit down with each of these women Rosie in toronto. You know care about the same things. and how they come to those conclusions maybe difference and and and sort of in disagreement. But i i don't follow them for for the perspective and they are and how they're contending with with this year because role all. We're all trying to figure out why my show much nicer person than i listened to rosie. I thought of people are people saying one hundred years ago. The irish need not apply. And i want to say without ago things have changed to me rosy that florus was an example of somebody who entirely did not get it at all. I mean what i saw is a lot of african americans who understood what they were dealing with and a lot of white people who were saying. I mean the guy one of the guys that oh you know i have so many. I couldn't believe it. He actually did that cliche. Are black then. Went on to say that you know that did that. The protesting are being objective objected to a lot of the real legitimate things that african americans were saying so to me. Several people you profile including the pastor. Who didn't seem to understand that it was a problem to be in your church next to each other singing at the top of your lungs without a mask where people that were kind of in some kind of denial of reality. It's it's a. i think. I'm glad you highlight that in that sense but at the same time i have to sort of underlying. I guess they approach. Maybe this was the goal of film really do show how people are interacting with with what's happening and then highlight their perspectives and sit them right up against each other and allow audiences to really judgment cells. 'cause i i you know. In many ways. I disagree with all of them on some level all our characters but also agree with a lot of our care like over characters on some level as well too. I think i'm still constantly formula in my opinion in terms of not necessarily about the issues and the perspectives that they hold so much as the people who are holding those perspectives. I think that's an important distinction. I wanna make where being able to film and talk with each of these individuals on some level has been a learning process for me too because it is quick for me to just say i don't agree with you but also just want to listen as well too. I'm not a. I wasn't as interesting arguing with them so much. As what are you really thinking really showing that. Yeah let me just say my parting thought of my shum is that if a joe biden watches this tonight he's going to ask for a recount. Let me tell you he is one hell of a job ahead of congratulations film. We really appreciate. We hope people watching tonight so much for having a really appreciate it much. Mike shamas the filmmaker behind the new frontline. Post-election special american voices a nation in turmoil airs tonight on. Pbs at ten. Also find online at pbs dot org slash frontline and. Thanks again to my show for joining us up next. We open the lines and ask you. Do you think joe biden will be able to unite the country the country we talk about in this. Outline documentary is this far. Fetched as barack obama's pledge to facilitate by partisan politics listen to eighty nine seventy whilst in public radio boston public radio jim brady and marjorie and if you're in we were talking to frontline filmmaker mike shem about his way to stock american voices nation in turmoil which tracks how divided americans are from wearing a mask. The black lives matter to all lives matter everything. In between well. Joe biden assures this will work to unite the nation in the end. It's all of us. Need to do the work and the question for you is. are you up to it. Eight seven seven three zero one. Eight hundred nine seventy. Do you have the patience that tolerance sympathy that it takes the give someone who thinks differently from you a chance. Is that quality and you improved. Since let's say the lockdowns of march through the floyd through the election or has it gotten worse. Eight seven seven. Three zero one eighty nine. I can answer for myself. This margaret i would say in the abstract i immediately said to myself. Of course i've grown more tolerant. And then i said to myself if i walked down the street and see some without a mask. My rage level is like my head is ready to pop off. So the answer is i guess. I've grown less tolerant rather than more at a time. I think we need more. How about you. Well you're of your such a nice person. Compared got nice nice. Do an exactly but you know. Here's the thing you realize because a lot of us do have people that are trump people. Maybe their closet trump people are the people that we don't and i am not a fan of the present. Obviously i've said over and over again but what you find is that by avoiding all these conversations i mean one of the biggest thing people talking about now in the country is karma virus people being out of work and the action you begin to have such superficial things so it's really really hard. I mean there's friends meyer talking about how their parents who are trumpsters or having thirty people over for thanksgiving and a lot of the kids are saying we're not coming we're not coming. This is insane and and it. So i see things no matter how tar you try to be. I don't know but you're just you automatically made it trump or anti-trump. There are a lot of masks people. I see in massachusetts who i'm guessing are not trump voters who for some reason just reject the notion that they should go out of the way to protect other people. I don't know if they're for donald trump or not. I have no tolerance for them zero. None because it's really selfish exactly but you can be a biden supporter and be selfish to is. My point is not just all about trump. i'm saying okay. That's the point. I'm trying to make for as i said if you watch film tonight. It isn't like you'll learn something you didn't know. Just when you see people in their natural surroundings their workplace small business their home at demonstration it it just makes it real an and credit. It's like to america's the quote the disgrace shaun edwards for the obvious divide. Here is between the seventy million people that support the president in the seventy five or whatever it is now Six million whatever it is. It's the supported by not the only good but it's a big one. it's always obviously. It's a huge one. Let's take some calls. Let's go to laura and webster mess your first on boston. public radio. welcome to the show. Hi hi guys how you doing. We're good so love the show. Love what you're talking about Just as a personal thing. i'm i go to a food pantry out here and the guy that runs it decided when the numbers went down that he didn't have to wear a mask while he was giving out masks and the public. So that's true. That's not true laura. I'm sorry what is that while he's saying he. Oh yeah yeah. Yeah so like i. Didn't i don't go anymore. Even though i'm out of work and you need the food i have to make sure i don't get in an argument and here's one hold on. So this is a personal interacting. Doesn't people food pantry. Is it his food pantry or was it somebody step in and say hey charlie would love you to help but you gotta wear a mask or you can't come. I mean what's the deal. First of all let me say they give great food and and i'm grateful that there our our yes. Yes and the last time. I went The numbers had dipped slightly in cases in that town. My talent went fifty fifty trump at i. I think we want biden by one. So that's where it is and he Two women were working with him. Giving out food and you have to stand there. It's not the best organization. But he was the only one not wearing a mask and he was standing right next to me shouting people who needs masks because they do give out a lot of masks. It's at what. Am i supposed to do so. I stay home. Stay home and you're deprive. You say suppose you said to him laura you know. I'm so grateful you're you're volunteering your time to do the thank you so much but i have no. You can lie and say you've got an eighty year old immunosuppressant mother living with her something or whatever and said would you mind putting on a mask. Because i'm afraid to get the food. What can i make this occasion. Where i could have done that. You politely said to him instead of the polite approach that marjorie suggests laura. I would suggest you go back to them and say could you be a bigger a-hole than you are. I urge every day in my town. I have to. I have to sometimes just told myself to stay in. Not not because of the covid. 'cause i don't want to end up on the news. I was frustrated. Sadly awesome. thank you off. I applaud even what i call the taco well. I called a talk about the difference. Between when i'm talking to a person who does something racist or sexist. And when i pointed out it's i'm pointing out like an institutional behavior that they've been conditioned to do for instance if women interrupt manta lot and you pointed out. I mean men men interrupting women. Is that out times. I i. I get the response from the man. I am not a sexist. So are raising their kind of bringing it to another level. I'm not saying you're sexist. I'm saying the behavior is is sexist or racist. And and when i asked myself if i did a racist thing and and a person of color needed out i first response. I hope would not be. I'm not a racist. My first response. I hope would be. Why is what i did. Just racist tell me by the way if you watch film the first response of a guy in the film is mardi mentioned. Is i have a lot of black friends. I mean i can't believe anybody's usually laura. We gotta go my mom go thank you for a great great coal and food pantry and good luck. Why can't we just all admit that we're all racist because i think you are. Everybody is to a certain degree right there lessons. we've learned. Is you have to challenge people. We had a lot of conversations a few months ago about what you say. When there's racist behavior dea tolerated do turn the other cheek. And i think the lesson. We all learned if we didn't have before it's unacceptable anymore to allow it and not challenge it whether it's your uncle or whoever the elders eight seven seven three zero one eight hundred nine seventy david in beverly high david. How're you doing good to a broader perspective on this. I think that you know although we all should try to see other people's perspective and cooperate that's what's gonna be necessary one nation. I think our country is going to dissolve sometime in the next fifty years. We've seen it with the soviet union. We saw it with great empires in the past. I think our political divides reflect our social and moral defied. A value divides see agents like the west coast and the northeast have a different social political religious philosophy than much of the rest of the country. I think that's gonna be reflective in our six david. I didn't know all the time. I think exactly like you do that. It's too big to overcome. And that this is this is the beginning of the slide of the american krugman today in the new york times about our ability to tackle climate change or covert or anything coming out of this election particularly of the that. It wasn't a rejection of the behavior of not just trump but his allies as relates. The coronavirus krugman said how depressing a drug a message. That is they've thanks for. There is one i mean. The good thing is that biden can undo at least a significant amount of damage. the president is on. I mean even that even drilling thing today Which apparently some alaskans are think is a great idea it right but even that could be challenged in the courts and it's not clear that a lot of companies even wanna do that at this stage of the game so he can undo some climate. Change your answer. I was gonna ask glazing so and how does the undo bombing iran which donald trump wanted to do was talked out of it by even mike pence. That appears by the way a friend of ours. You know. it's really interesting about the bombing. Iran thing the reason that he got out of the iran nuclear deal of course he criticized that president obama negotiated. John kerry negotiated with because he didn't want the iranians to increase their their stockpile. Well what are they done increase. Stop on us numbers so that was another thing that he was obsessed with that obama. Did that turned out to be not perfect but better than doing nothing and that has blown up in his face so we just got a text from a good friend of ours said the governor. This is all floors phone. Call the governor. South dakota went to a plan to celebrate the fact that this governor known there that they were going to be making. Pcp went to celebrate it. She was wearing a mask when she went into the. I think she's taken lever since she's she's doing these ads tours ads. South dakota and south dakota is in the in the clutches of one of the worst outbreaks anywhere. In the country. The positivity rate is in the dakotas. At least one of the code is and i think both fifty percent fifty percent worth three hundred hundred troubled. Were debating what to do about thanksgiving. I think the answer is getting an airplane and fly out of charleston concord. You're next on boston. Public radio welcome. Hi charlie hey guys on the manager this guy from a couple of weeks bass. Hello charlie thank you for calling. yeah thank you. I think we have to give people more of the benefit of doubt. Sometimes because it's happened before where i've accidentally walk towards somebody in a day and age and they took a few steps back. And i'm like i'm up at it the dating or you know i forgot what a mass going yeah. I've done that a log to. You're right or even what to go take out the trash. I mean i'm from upstate. New york i'm gonna give you a quick little example cod-related we use our our terminals up there and i was driving up in court Yells out his window. Use your bleeping turn signal. And i'm like why i always use like so. I got out of my car. Look i'll be darned but it was out like okay. Well thanks but who does it you in the us me. Actually charlie colored car you driving with a cal with bro. That was middle. You know but you're a you're a you're a more tolerant soul and i and i mean that's we need a lot more of you. Then people like me who were so judgmental and jump to conclusions so quickly and i we have it in on both sides of all. These divides to act like you do. If you wanna well in some kind of peace charlie. Thanks for the call. Forget haven't you ever done that. We walk out of the house. And you're getting in your car or you halfway down the street. If you're a big walker. Which i've turned into and on gothic. Got my math and you have to you know. Cover your face jog home and disgrace and pick up your mask. I mean haven't you done that. Oh yeah yeah yeah. Yeah of course were you want wanna go. Let's go to by the way before you go ahead you know. The first caller was laura or lauren. I can't remember who said he didn't go to the food pantry. More a woman. Diane runs a food. Pantry and swamps get wants to connect with laura so if laura wants to send us an email to be. Pr w. g. b. h. dot org and there's still a w in the email We can or am. I supposed to that people back in. Maybe diane supposed to. I don't know who it is. You guys should both email. Wchs soon as we. Can laura. please do that judy. In quincy high. I guy god are you there are how'd you i'm so excited. I need to die since the beginning of time so it seems like it anyway. had two things In september i was asked to work on a project for a major american company. That is a coffee table book. It's got photography and it's called black voices from the name of the company. I can't say but it's stories of african americans who started very Low on the totem pole pole in this company and all rose q. high levels in the suite anyways it. I haven't really ever Most suburban white lady. I worked with a lot of african americans project sporadically here and there but to become immersed in this project. And then you know. I've been listening to guys for a long time. And i started listening to the revved up. Cod podcasts australian during this period and i just wanna say you know all of us have access to this kind of information. If you don't know you know if you don't have black friends or work with black kali you can. You can have access to the culture. And i think irene and emmett Are one of the best sources in our area to To understand more about african american culture and and It's a great door to open people. People need to hear this podcast judy. We're gonna make sure they know your call. Thank you we share. Love the podcast. You know when you listen to the pockets. You realize i remember talk differently. The podcast and they talked to you does that. It's a whole different thing. Listen to this this is an email. We just got from a reverend. Just call it revenue victoria. She says that she says she's sorry. That you and i are framing this. Division between responsible irresponsible americans as one of tolerance. There's no moral defense for tolerating ages. Be dangerous behaviors g not wearing masks or supporting a racist xenophobic authoritarian president who's put democracy in peril. She's a clergy person She gave a sermon on this on sunday and her main point was we are there is nothing meaner unkind holding people accountable for their choices. We're not called to be comfortable. But to be just and loving and loving. this does not look like indulgent. it requires honesty and civil confrontation. I love that now. Thank you for something. And i think. That's one of the things that white evangelical christians. I don't think we can call them. Christians because they got nothing to do with christ and so i think this this veneer black evangelical questions is a whole different thing but giving them this veneer that they somehow morally superior is just baloney. And i think that's what's great about her email is she saying you know. Let's be real. Let's not put up with stuff you know that is just outrageous and i think i think that's what we have done before. Allowed us for the black lives movement moment waving tolerated things that we shouldn't have. I think in many cases that is unfortunately trade of great email. Thanks kohl's okay. we are moving on. We're going to talk to core our sports authority. Transitionary is up next talked about the patriots and a bunch of other things training. Nbc sports is next on eighty nine seventy ph boston. Public radio an walking back to boston. Public radio jim brown marjorie journalists on the line with the latest headlines at the intersection sports and societies your contributor trying to because they're turning as an anchor and reporter for nbc sports. Boston good morning treaning morning as well. Traffic is now like i'm so excited. Talk to you about this story about this new women woman. Gm at the marlins kim yang and the fact that the apparently quite evolved derek jeter of the new york yankees game for the job so philipson. Yeah i mean this is. This is huge for women. I don't think it can be underplayed. What a monumental moment. this is Because she is the first woman to ever hold a position like this in any of the five major sports in the united states. No woman has ever been put in charge of a team before and can hang. I would say he's over qualified for the job. She's fifty one years old. She played softball for four years at the university of chicago. She has worked for the dodgers and the yankees in high ranking positions for decades. She's interviewed six times to lead teams and has lost out every time. Except for this one We say all the time you can do anything. You can be anything but sometimes it feels like you can't and kim yang has at least i don't know she shattered the glass ceiling. Is i think it takes a few more people to shatter that glass ceiling. But she is certainly put a really big cracking. It do know her by the way Not like she saw me in the street. I would probably recognize her or be. Because we don't see each other enough. But i did do a story on her. I mean this is how long ago she was considered a rising star and major league. Baseball when i worked at major league baseball network from two thousand eight to two thousand ten. I did a story on her. That i believe at that time. She was working for the dodgers. Everyone said this is going to be the next young. Gm she's going to be the first female and that was well years thirty years ago. Is that right. is it my mouth of. Yeah yeah eleven. Twelve years ago and she's now got a job. The only the only thing that i look at this and go. Why did it take so long. Is you know you look at everything she had to do. To get this opportunity. She had to prove over and over and over again and finally have someone like derek jeter who is more progressive thinking and progressively progressive leaning. To say i'm you know. I'm gonna give you this job that you deserve when and this is no disrespect to these men who all done especially through incredible job at baseball. But you look at theo epstein who was hired by the red sox at twenty eight years old. He was six years out of college and he was given the keys to one of the most storied franchises in major league baseball history. And of course he did. He did his job. He won a world series and then he went to the cubs and other storied franchise and won a world series. But you look david stearns. Who isn't as. It's not the former commissioner of the nba. But that is the general manager for my hometown. Milwaukee brewers he is the second youngest to ever be put in charge of a major league baseball team at the age of thirty key to ivy league ivy league educated analytic but he was a man. I can't help. But think that if i was joe smith he would have had the job that he has now. If you had the exact same brain twenty years ago we know couple of things. Trump is first of all. I did not know that. Derek jeeter was the first black guy become a ceo of an nba. Yes so he obviously knows a little bit about what is being to be the first in a position like this but the second thing is i'm wondering how much flack she's going to take. I would presume that every mistake she made makes will be blamed on the fact that she's our girl you know i don't know if it will be overtly based on the fact that she's that she's a female and that she can't do it but i you know i was saying yesterday when i was talking to somebody about this like everything she does. Qiming doesn't just need to be the general manager of the miami marlins she also needs be someone who speaks for. She's also. I believe the first or second asian american to be in a position of power like that major league baseball so she needs to be a voice for that group she needs to be a voice for all women she to make sure that every move she makes is one that doesn't get overly scrutinizing around her gender and what i think she's the only thing. I hope that happens here. Obviously people are going to look at her and say she can't do the job because even though most most executives a lot of them never played the game at a high level. I would argue that. She has more experience playing the game. Even know it softball and that all the many of the other men in charge. What i i know. Inevitably there's going to be somebody in that clubhouse there's going to be a player who is not all that evolved when it comes to social and gender issues. Who's gonna hate what she does. He is no matter what she does. He's not gonna like it. Because i think a woman should be in that position. What i hope happens is that there are other people in the only way this changes if people are told that that is not an acceptable way to act. I hope that there are other men in those clubhouses who when they hear those derogatory comments they say. Hey enough is enough. No you're not going to say that about her. She makes a mistake and she makes a mistake. It just made a badminton. She made a bad choice as a journal manager. She didn't make a bad choice. As a woman and you get to that point that's true equality right like no one's asking you to never criticize a female or a minority. Who's in a position where they're the only people doing that job. All any of us want is a fair shot if we suck at our job okay cool. We look at our job. That's that's going to happen but don't say you stink at your job because of your race your gender ethnicity your religion like. That's where i feel like we're still so stuck at time. Let me say though that. I think both of you. I would say that if derek jeter was smart enough to pick this woman. He's smart enough to have sat down with her and other leaders of this team that talk about what is likely to come. And hopefully they're prepared for this. But i wanna make one of their addendum to what you said. Trendy you've mentioned how. A former general manager of the red sox. Theo was twenty nine. I can say based upon personal experience. He could've used the little maturing before he what okay. What's what chick brownie story. Have i gonna. i'm not gonna. I have never interviewed. I interviewed him at the at the workout room. It fenway many years ago when he was still with the red sox four times when you could interview people a workout room. I have never seen a leader. Treat people who work for more disrespectfully in front of outsiders than theo epstein really. I've i've never. It was despicable with a pr guy. Who is a sweetheart and he. He laid them out right in front of me rather than waiting till he went out. And the whole which would have taken about two seconds. It was really. It was a pathetic pathetic performance. Let's be honest. That's what happens when people get jobs even if they're good at what they do and there's no disputing that is going to what he does not know with two different teams so no questioning map but there is something to be said for. When you're given the keys to the to the to the maserati was going to say cadillac with like not a fancy car anymore. You're giving kids to the maserati twenty-eight you have not learned yet you really haven't learned failure. You haven't learned humility. You haven't had six interviews that you've gone out and tried to show people in myriad ways that you are worthy of this job. Which obviously i think she's going to have which just makes you a better leader because it makes you more empathetic leader and more understanding of the entire culture. Spend the whole interview in this. Say considering i'm told he comes from a wonderful family. Your kids all knew. His twin brother at brookline high smoke is goes seen as training to treat other people like human being when you get famous fast and you get a lot of money. Fat people change you. Start to think even if you were raised in the best house home i see it all the time in my industry. You meet a kid. Who's the nicest kid when he's in college or when he's at the minor leagues or she's in the minor leagues and all of the sudden. They win something. Be a gold medal or a world title or an mvp rookie of the year award. And the next thing you know it's like you can't even recognize them anymore. We're throwing attorney training. I'm reading this piece by rick pitino. Who is now the coach at iona. Which i didn't even know that she was and no disrespect intended iona. It's not a you know a top ten basketball team. And he's arguably one of the great college coaches ever one of the worst celtics coaches ever to. He's talking about making march. Madness may men as we've spoken you a lot. About how covert fifteen covid. Nineteen and a sports college in pros have interacted but things are about to get a lot worse. If we are to believe all the experts harrell these. I mean the ivy league cancelled all their. I guess. Full sports outlier. What's the expectation. Where are things. And what's the expectation about. What the next three or four months old as of right now. The ivy league is the only league to the best of my knowledge. And i checked again this morning. That has cancelled. It's actually winter. Sports follower to cancel the ivy league named now taking a step to canceling winter sports and postponing things until possibly the spring. As of right now the most recent thing to come out is that college basketball is not going to have a multi location. And they're still going to do march madness. We'll get you re pitino said in a second but instead of doing it at multiple sites usually have sites all over the country. They're they're going to do all of their entire tournament. Play will be bubbled in indianapolis where the final four. We're supposed to be so they're still going to do but they're going to do everything they're going to use like hinkle fieldhouse. I think they'll use. They can't use. I don't believe that they can use where i forget the name. It's escaping me of the pacers play like globe life or something or some bank arena. They're not really as the pacers will be playing for the nba. But as of right now college basketball is going ahead. I don't know what's going to happen. And i sent. You is an article from the washington post like college. Football is mass right now. I mean every weekend you think last weekend there were twelve games cancelled. Because you keep getting these costumers in these pods on campus. And they're finding that these athletes aren't contracting the virus when they're practicing or there on the field and they're moving around their outside maybe they're in big field houses like an indoor big indoor facility practicing even if they're practicing without basques but what they're finding which is what we're finding in the general population that these guys and they eat. You know you may eat in a team setting might be spread out but you're still sitting. Maybe with three or four guys you know having lunch. No mass. because you're eating a nats wherever that's where the spread is. Are you go home. And maybe you aren't required to live a football players so maybe you live with somebody else and that person is being safe and make come home and they give it to you and you give it to somebody else. So rick pitino is suggesting is hey baby rather than trying to rush this and stand a timeline of march. Maybe we give ourselves some leeway right now and just say you know what we're gonna move this today. We're going to this. I would wearily big of course because of vaccine but now that the reality is ordinarily. You don't move major events you know this better training than we do because he can't get hotel rooms that kind of thing. Nobody's saying any hotels anywhere. So why don't they just move the damn thing. So there's more safety for the players in the staff. I don't get it at the very very least what you do. Is you allow yourself to not have to do what happened last year where you can just start the season a little bit later like maybe you start after the new sylvester rather than risking either one. These kids not being able to see family around the holidays or to going home interacting with people at home then coming back on campus and then you're canceling games and you're rescheduling games and you're losing money anyway. I don't understand why college sports even more so than the. Nfl is the one that started on time but the nba is moved their season back. Nhl has moved their season back. I don't understand why college worth and understand. They're in a different time. Link is kids are in school in the school year. run september through. May that like so you condense it a little bit so i just. I don't understand just the the the this greed. It's got to be greed right. What else is it to push forward at all costs any costs and like the burying of the head-in-the-sand like i was watching college football coverage on saturday which they don't do. It just happened to be on. I think kind of around the bastards or something and the sec commissioner. The sec was like oh we've actually done a good job. And i know we only had two games this weekend. We feel like we're really hitting a stride and things are going to be okay. Do you watch the news like it's getting worse. It's not getting better. They did that. Your kids you know aren't going to be affected by it. It's just burying your head in the same hoping for the best and it's just like how how are you. A guy makes millions of dollars in charge of an entire league. Would you just don't pay attention to what's going on around you. Here's really flabbergasting. Because nerik you mentioned before that the players aren't getting the nfl is talking about how The story from sports roundup that none of its two hundred virus cases in the beginning of the season. I half linked to games and you said yourself. How can that be okay. I know they're outside. But they're shouting. All their in huddles the tackling each on their. Yeah but you're not close to each other for long enough right like the one thing we do know now is they say that high risk contact is in a poorly ventilated area without a mask for or even with a mask for fifteen minutes or longer. Yeah that's considered a high and less than sixteenth so really put together all the time that you're together like you're not really things happen so fast and air particles breakup so much when you're outside or when you're in a well ventilated place like that's why i this sport. They were most concerned about was. We're hockey and basketball. Because you're on the court you're you're constantly like the play is constant more so than your outdoor sports like football and baseball. I mean i think that's the thing it's sort of like you know. I was watching fell. Grandma's a few navy now two months ago and there was a doctor they had on the head of infectious diseases. I forget which hostile. But dr sachs's like i tell my friends all the time. Stop screaming at the person who runs past you without a mascot that it's a waste of your energy that's not how you get you get covid. Nineteen if somebody runs past you for two seconds. That's how you get so. Let's not waste our energy there. Let's focus our energies on what is important which is not having a large gatherings not being indoors. Not wearing a mask at all times if you're near someone for more than ten or fifteen minutes like that's how this is spread. And he then he came the key. The doctor was on with her mouth. Saying i'm not surprised that transmission isn't happening on the football field because there's not the sustained constant interaction with someone that's where you're getting that large viral load that affects. You wouldn't read this email but we all know this woman. I just got an email from melissa. Lucky who you know who about how of course in the wnba and women's pro soccer and and she attached a piece in sl about her reaction to hangs ascension and the reason that's relevant is for those who don't know melissa lucky versus coon coon. The former commissioner of baseball was the case. Forty plus years ago that was filed allowing women to Melissa in particular into Men's locker room. So i'd read it. Go to dot com. You know the last thing we have to. We're gonna discuss how the pats of risen from the dead or maybe brady had a great game which he did. I was waiting for sixty minutes training on sunday night. And so i turned on. Cbs because they were interviewing barack obama new book and the arizona cardinals. Football game was not over. Luckily i was angry. The most incredible sewer five minutes last that pie. If you can describe it in thirty seconds was one of the greatest plays in pro sports. I've ever seen in my life. Kinder's cuyler murray and the arizona cardinals had one shot to win the game and beat the buffalo bills and cuyler murray beautiful rainbow up up high. Pass to deandre hopkins who out-leaped three defenders down for a touchdown. It was blonde believable believable. On the fact that time is running out and it was the guy. Forty yards to the quarterback had to run was off balance. I think he on his back all of the things that make it hard to throw a football and it was unbelievable. It was washed five times me too. If you miss it you can. Of course go to google. You can go to youtube. It is just one of the greatest place ever so there. You have it. We'll get to the pets and maybe brady next playing. They're playing arizona caliber in a couple of star. Great yes they are. Well the guy torture much traffic is now joins us every week. She's an anchor and reporter for nbc. Sports boston bp contributor. Thanks again coming up. Who's ahead this week in the brady vs. Ballot check saga. Oh no we already talked about. That is correct. More coming up talking about something completely different. We're going to talk with Physician dr katherine bergen gannett about virus. She's triggered by night. She's gonna take all our calls and your emails apologized for that. Eighty nine seven w. g. b. h. Who sat up to eighty nine seven. Gbh i got my act together after the news the news you have a little break. Get your act together. Taking your calls katherine gergen net after the news and eighty nine seven. Gbh boston public radio had them boston. Public radio the fda's gearing up to review the safety and efficacy data for the first covid nineteen vaccines in america. What comes next. If dern or pfizer vaccine is approved be a massive logistics effort americans based on risk factors exposure to the virus joining us to discuss the next steps and vaccine development situation on the ground in massachusetts. And more dr catherine barnett. She'll take our questions and your calls much. The world has seen a rise in coronavirus cases. European states have responded by shutting down. The economy's almost completely a move made possible because those shutdowns also come with robust stimulus packages for businesses and residents in just a few minutes. Boston globe columnist shirley. Young we'll discuss her latest call in which she asks is massachusetts avoiding lockdown. Because it doesn't have to or can't afford to then. John came from cnn on the latest idc. All the coming up in boston. Public radio eighty nine seven gp h march. Yeganeh listened to boston. Public radio eighty nine seven gb. H logan jim. We got all that right so obviously you just eat a little reorientation during the news. I'm i'm back in the game. I think you arm so the us is now in a precarious place with corona virus cases climbing at alarming rates across the country. One hundred and fifty thousand new cases average last week in massachusetts. We're not too long ago. We were national success story. We've seen the highest count of new cases since may as we head into winter where the virus becomes more efficient spreading. What can we do to protect ourselves and others have thanksgiving. And how hopeful can we be about the moderna and pfizer. Vaccines join us. Take our questions and more importantly all yours on the current state of corona viruses. Dr catherine gergen barnett. She's the vice chair. Primary care innovation and transformation in residency director of the department of family medicine at boston medical center and be you medical school. Dr gergen barnett as always a really glad to have you. Thanks so much for having me back and by the number if people wanna call her is eight seven seven three zero one eight hundred nine seventy martyred checks the email at bp pr w. b. h. dot org but as always the preferred route is the phone so doctors Thank you for joining us today. So first of all we know. Things are not great here in massachusetts. And we're hearing these harrowing stories out of utah. Wisconsin that kotas iowa nebraska. So how how bad are things well. They're pretty dire. I think you know we every day. We hear news about states and governors. Who you know are finally putting in orders round mass and starting to close dining and closing bars and jams Particularly dire Our stories coming out of north dakota where i think there has been You know the intensive care unit beds are no longer available and populations that really didn't believe Covid nineteen was true or didn't believe the severity of it are now getting very ill and some dying And even on their death fed really resenting that this is true so you know the the the reality is pretty pretty damn you know also while i believe recently. The bad news out of massachusetts is the case. New case. numbers have grown. The deaths and hospitalizations are not growing as fast. But if i remember correctly deaths usually track a new cases or trail them by roughly three weeks. So it's likely we're going to have a pretty tough go right here as well. Yeah we're all we're all becoming epidemiologists as we follow the turkey rocking so It is amazing thing The skills that we've picked up so the fact is you're you're exactly right. The good news is massachusetts is that we are saying the highest rates of Infection young healthier people which tends to mean that there's less hospitalizations and certainly less likelihood of going on a ventilator why we continued to worry about. Is that the young healthy people. Can dan Unfortunately in fact people that they love who are older with chronic conditions Who are more likely to get second need to go on a ventilator and the second piece is we just unfortunately while we do see trends of young people tending to stay healthy they. of course Can get ill as well. you know. we're going to talk to you in a couple minutes better by the vaccine news. Which sounds quite great. It's not tomorrow but at least it's very positive. But you'll have to say the closer we get to thanksgiving. We took calls from listeners. About a week ago about thanksgiving and i was sort of understanding an open minded about what people are doing and they miss people they love and if they're careful the closer we get to this and the more the numbers rise dr the more my sense is you almost have to be out of your mind to do an in-person thanksgiving with anybody from outside your household particularly since you now know that. It's likely this thing is not going to go on forever that vaccines are within sight. What advice are you giving patients and others when they ask you thanksgiving related questions. Yeah i you know. I'm i'm with you i. My thinking has continued to transform around this. I think we all wanted to several weeks ago. Thanks okay well if you get tested before you go and then you're really safe when you travel and then you get tested when you you know actually land wherever you're going or have the opportunity to quarantine. Well maybe just maybe It makes sense. I think increasingly States you know where they have very high rates massachusetts. Were certainly kind of barreling up to the higher numbers were really Public health and physicians. And and you know community members increasingly asking people to please. Just have this thanksgiving be you know like no other thanksgiving where you're really just with your loved ones people you've already been potting with Gabum you'll web and then you be creative. Maybe you can take a outdoor hike with masks on and lots of distance And and there's lots of other ways to celebrate gratitude and thanksgiving besides just sitting around a lot of food for a number of hours with massdot for great way to jim. Jim this work for you left for thanksgiving but you know that is really a is a great idea. Really when you think about it. I know it will upset jim. 'cause he's the mountains of food something. He looks forward to every year exactly. But but you could do these. I mean you could have outdoor. I mean it could be called and raining that ruins everything. But if it's not you could do a lot of things outdoor around around around a fire pit or like you said you take blue hills take hikes. Something like that. Also pick not. I'm not the expert. Obviously you are dodger. But pichot date in may or june for your defacto thanksgiving from twenty twenty so you have something to look forward to. It's just i worry that. And i'm sure you do even more doctor that the headlines. We're going to see right before. Christmas are about what a superspreader day Thanks a thanksgiving was yeah. Look i think there's all kinds of ways we've had to be creative and We have done so well for so long being creative. And i think you know as you alluded to jim. The news around the vaccine is is positive in a way that perhaps we could actually just say you know was just a few more months. Sit tight Think think outside of the box In in the way that you connect to the people you love. I never eight seven seven three zero one eight hundred seventy if you have any questions For the doctor. She's going to be here with us to the top of the hour. Eight seven seven three. Oh one eighty nine seventy and the be. Pr email is a be pr w. g. b. h. dot org. You're just a couple of quick things. I wanted about first of all. I saw this picture from the houston medical center where the physicians that are in the room. All they got mass on the shields on the head pieces. I mean they're basically invisible except for there is but now they're wearing these massive pictures of themselves around their neck so the patient could see with the physicians. Actually look off brilliant. I mean it's great. It's a it's a great picture because frankly you would have no idea what these people look like because all you can see is there is there is so. That's one thing. I thought was really neat but the other thing i thought was really upsetting. Was that you know we talked early on about how the numbers could go up if you didn't do the right things and obviously we're not doing the right things in all different parts of the of the country that we are still looking at that. Four hundred forty thousand people dying and apparently going up by mid-march if we don't mend our ways us that's like double where we are now. Yeah look it if you do the calculus and and you serve graf it out. That's that's absolutely right. I want to go back to that. That story about the humanity You know. I just love that idea. I wanna bring to our hospital But something that if you nurses have been doing. Ibm bmc from the very beginning. Is printing out photos. That family members send in For people who are in the icy or hospital and putting it all over their walls. Because you know they're they're alone and isolated and what what a wonderful way to kind of use technology. That's available to us. Can we spend a minute before we get to the coals and there are a lot of them at eight seven seven. Three zero one. Eighty nine seventy. We're about two minutes away from you and the doctor will answer anything related coronavirus that you have questions about until she has to go the vaccine when when something. What's that old tired line when something sounds too good to be true. Then it must be too good to be true from what i've read and i've read voraciously about the the pfizer and particularly the moderna vaccine and i say particularly because nali is the efficiency rate or efficacy rate. Whatever it is even higher ninety four point five allegedly. But it doesn't have to be kept at as low temperature which is good if you wanna get the ultimate vaccine at your pharmacy your doctor's office or whatever. What's your sense of of timetable. We're hearing for people who do what you do for a living. Maybe as early as december older people people people with commune deficiency issues Maybe as early as then and then for the general population maybe april and may. Is that what you're hearing as. Well dr yeah so look at the the both vaccines are gonna go quickly to the fda and try and get emergency use authorization And then the ideas that were hopefully in have about sixty million doses by the end of the year and as you indicated those are really. I go to a frontline workers you know. I really want to underscore at a place like boston. Medical center and and so many other places around the country. I'm really thinking about. Who are those frontline workers. So you know really Recognizing that people in the healthcare industry. Of course you know. We're grateful to be considered But also simultaneously thinking about all the people who work in transportation all the people who work in food for the people who are getting so sick and are continuing to be kind of laughed a little bit In the in the gap the air and and really you know. I want us all to be Advocating for that to also be first in line dutch. Yes so the ideas. Sorry i was just gonna to say so so to finish that thought the idea of that I think the vast majority of the public will then have something available sort of spring and summer. We're talking to catherine greg burnett. She's a vice chair. Primary care at v innovation transformation residency director at boston medical center. Doctor we were talking last. I'm night about sports and how it seemed. Incredible that people that were playing. Nfl tackling each other and falling all over each other don't seem as many transmission on the players and we talked about the idea of having to be in a place of for fifteen minutes in mostly inside next to someone who is infected alerts. Email sent us the latest. From the cdc which says it's not fifteen minutes. Continuously is fifteen minutes cumulatively. So that means you could be next to mom for two minutes at the cocktail hour next month for another five minutes during the main meal next again dessert. And then you're up to fifteen minutes and that's it is that what the that that is. Correct that data actually came out of the cdc Several weeks ago based on what we are seeing actually in a singular case which then you know drove the data In vermont in in prison system where one of the people working in the prison was tending to a bunch of people who were Ended up being cova positive and spent very little time with each person You know within that timeframe over the course of twenty four hours spent fifteen minutes Expose and then became positive. So that's exactly what that means You again we. We are continuing to learn a lot about the way that this virus works but one of the things that were coming to understand it is is not just that you are considered You know contact. Tracers are high risk if it's fifteen minutes at one time But rather it's jumar test so you know really. How do you add that up. I think that makes facing very difficult. Let's go to the phones. Let's talk to myra and norton you're on with doctor dr. Laura hi thanks for taking my call. Sure I have a friend who's very involved the development of a treatment for kobe and he told me yesterday about the during study that that was done in a hundred people and ninety five of them with thief the placebo and only five received the actual treatment. That's not so. Thank you so much for calling in and asking 'cause That requires some clarification so so the majority trial was actually done on thirty thousand people and half of those people who received the placebo which is for salt. Water and half the people received a vaccine And there was actually ninety five cases total of covid nineteen And ninety of those cases were in the placebo so ninety of those ninety five where the people who received the salt water and only five of those people who are who actually received the maderno vaccine and interestingly all of the severe cases were those who also received because cbo and not only was protective of getting it but it was protective of getting it. Know a severe case so Thank you for calling in asking such an important question. I am so glad that my recalled not just because of how important the question was. You said dr gergen barnett but because all of us get little snippets of information and make large conclusions about small things often the turn out to be wrong and the lesson that i hope we've all learned as you say as we all become sort of amateur epidemiologists as we have throughout. This is when you hear something about an issue relating to the corona virus that really matters and is important double check it. Do a little research yourself do. Don't just take it as gospel particularly if it's coming from one person in particular but check out the information marlins recall political but for just one second the other great thing about the biden win is that we're not gonna have the cdc doing crazy things and then readjusting the weeks later or the fda and readjustment to placate the leader of the free world warcraft clerk when we not had that is all over and so that should touch it really. I hope i mean. I would think dr insane message. The health experts the epidemiologists and the president. united states. i think is going to help. I think wave. I i am. I'm so looking forward to having a set of unified messages. That are coming from experts in public health. Who are not going to be undermined. Guess and very much looking forward to that day. That's of course if you don't watch the new trump tv which will be founded sometime december kaelin. Kaelin you're in stoughton. You're in boston public. Radio your doctor. Gergen burnett hi. Hey how's it going great. Hey So i just had a question I heard Madeta representatives Talking about the vaccine and that it could potentially cause some mild symptoms. I was just wondering if you're showing these mild who like. Will you be contagious. When you're if you're showing symptoms from the vaccine gray quite helen so those mild flu like symptoms are sort of the the hallmark of a of vaccine so probably people who have gotten vaccines recently or even the flu shot recently Know what that feels like so Importantly though to really look at the way that both visor and madonna have made this vaccine so they have created Like a little bit of a genetic code so they're not putting any of the virus into your body there's no live virus is going in. There's not even a kill viruses going in They're putting in something. Called messenger are in a which is again a piece of genetic code in order to stimulate your body to make protein that looks like corona virus so when you get exposed to coronavirus your body's have i know this protein and i can fight it so in other words everything you're getting put into your body is is not the virus cannot make you sick and you will not have covid nineteen when you get the vaccine. Great answer and very clear kaelin. Thanks for the call. You know what i read yesterday. The new york times story about madeira doctor was this success. The apparent success of this technology were just describing is very good news going forward on infectious diseases as a whole. Is that of you your share. Yeah absolutely you know. We've never had a messenger. Rene been approved by the fda pretty. He has a pretty novel technology and one that we thought would be very helpful. Because where you can do is you can actually make very quickly Which is you know evident by the fact that we this is breaking all timelines that we've ever seen in terms of Creating a vaccine The problem with jarrai which is exactly what we're reading about. Is it a bit more fragile. and so I actually rather great article. Which compared Said the importance of protecting these vaccines and you know. Ultra cooler cool. Temperatures is sort of the idea of eminem Like you know melts in your mouth. Not your hands so like how do you know. Put shells on top and protected and kinda freeze it so that that was a very good analogy for people who are visual learners. Before we go back to the coles someone called his last week actually with a question. We said we'd ask you which was and it may be impossible to ask for just to To vaccines as far ahead. Even without a burden youth use authorization yet. But it's likely they're likely to get it. Maybe even by the end of november is are people going to have options come next year. Let's assume for argument's sake of the dozen that are nearing conclusion. If most of them get approval is the average person going to be able to choose what they want saying. I want the one. That's at ninety. Four point five the moderna versus the blank or is the likelihood. Good that at different venues. You're going to have a one size for everybody. I think we are going to see a lot of these. Kind of racehorses continue down the track in terms of the other vaccines that are being developed. And if there is a vaccine that is Even more efficacious and easier to store and easier to distribute than either the ones that have been pushed to date that i imagine You know we'll have some front runners that being said pfizer madonna had sort of blown off the doors of what we were expecting. And what we're hoping for so. We encourage the numbers. That re hoping even seventy would have been great. Yeah well i was sort of thinking. Fifty to seventy is you know we thought anything greater than fifty percents Efficacy we would you know the fda would approve but the fact that we're looking at close to ninety five percent is is excellent use screwed. We're talking with dr. Catherine burnett from boston medical center you know. I'm getting emails about people. That are contemplating. Barbara's one she's contemplating elective surgery. On december first other people. That are worried about you. Know regular test blood tests the colonoscopy thing for colon cancer go to the dentist the other day or you went to somebody the dentist. I got my teeth cleaned. It's the same deal i know. Yeah and it was. I was kind of nervous about it. Even though we were everybody was messed up except for me but so what about those kinds of things getting your teeth cleaned electric surgery colonoscopy blood tests et cetera. Well look. I think what happened in. The beginning of the pandemic is really just a massive shutdown of all kinds of elective procedures and routine healthcare mate nuts We are all working very hard on the hospital. Level and i know outpatient clinics to maintain the safety of those kinds of places You know for instance if you need to get a quote asking if you need to get those blood tests. I'm still very much encouraging patients to come in to get their sugars tested to get their cholesterol tested You know if it's plastic surgery know. Maybe you could defer it but there are things that you know. We're really really maintaining safety in these places long as we can actually be. Let's do greg. I'm getting an email from a friend o