20 Episode results for "Carter Carter"

20VC: Cyan Banister on Her Relationship To Money, Risk, Her Investment Decision-Making Process, Why We Will See A Reckoning in the Early Stage Market, Her Biggest Takeaways from HQ Trivia & The Future of Silicon Valley

The Twenty Minute VC

52:40 min | Last month

20VC: Cyan Banister on Her Relationship To Money, Risk, Her Investment Decision-Making Process, Why We Will See A Reckoning in the Early Stage Market, Her Biggest Takeaways from HQ Trivia & The Future of Silicon Valley

"This is the twenty minutes with me. Harry stirrings. I. Always get in so much trouble with my insurance on twitter nine sound too excited to have someone on the show apparently I hope you forgive or at least understand my assignment for this episode. But my what I really wanted to have this incredible individual in the show for a long long time and so with that, I'm thrilled to welcome scientist one of the most successful and renowned early stage investors. The last decade her portfolio includes slice of check this out spacex Uber, a firm open door posts, neon, and thumb tack to name a few today. Sign is a partner a long journey ventures joining the. Team following a four year stint founded fund. Why she led deals in both take an age hugh Trivia prior to founders. Fund Sam was a super successful early operator, Angel Co Founding Zizi on before that being early employees it on poor leading to the acquisition by Oracle I do so and say he signed to Kevin House to Brian, cinnamon and Catherine boil some amazing questions sessions today really did so help me that. But before we move into the show stay, I'm sure you've heard about it but my word I love a product. Cool. Carter Carter simplifies how startups investors manage accuracy, chart, count tables, and get anyway shins go to coulter dot com slash chooser. To. Get Temps and off more than eight, hundred, thousand employees and shareholders. US. Carter. To manage hundreds of billions of dollars neck see and Carson now offers fund administration. So you can see real time data in the call to platform and what with Causes Team Experience Fund accountants go you call to dot com slash two zero visa temps and off and if you've been listening to our show you've probably heard of Bryce the first corporate card for startups with no personal guarantee or credit check up to twenty times higher credit limit sensational cards plus rewards like three is manageable. Apple Products and seven six points on tools I zoom and slack brags has helped thousands of companies scale faster to reach that potential this month, they're standing their special offer to our listeners apply for the bryce called by November thirtieth with the Code Twenty. All spellbound to receive a five hundred dollar credit after spending thousand dollars even better. You can also apply for Bryce cash a bank account alternative with unlimited free wire and ach transfers with no minimum balance required to create an account, you can apply for an account stay braxton com and lost by no means least culture and Bryce really changed the game in terms of fun DOB minimum. Finance amplitude is that for product amplitude helps top project growth themes, companies like pay pal instant Palette. On my favorite lasts, go properties furnaces that convert and retain customers with that product intelligence platform you and your team will really be able to better understand US behavior ship, great experiences, foster retain more customers. They've become the gold standard in analytics for teams asking what is happening in that digital products. Why uses conversing and what do we build next see for yourself how companies like twitter door dash and Cisco Bill for Growth Using amplitude and visit amplitude dot com for slash two zero. Discounted scholarship plans are available for qualifying startups you have to check them out, but the time has come. Now I'm very, very excited time David to the one at a I Siam Buenavista. Have now arrived at your destination. And we were just saying now we've been wanting to see the bright longtime time. I cannot thank you enough joining me staff had so many great things from Brian, cinnamon from Heaven Horse, and so many other people say thank you so much for joining me. Yeah. Thank you for having me not to kick off a little bit uneasy. Tell me how did you make your way into the? Wonderful World of startups, but especially in investing and I guess what was the genesis for founding long journey? Yeah. So I made my way into startups back in nineteen, Ninety, eight, ninety, nine. So my background is I come from the Internet sort of laying pipes era gives away my age, but I basically worked ISP's and then eventually came to San Francisco and joined the series of startups. Many of. Those startups failed there's like four or five that failed before I won the startup lottery, which was a company called iron port and airport exited to Cisco for a sizable amount and basically tried to figure out what to do with the money that I made. It was the first financial windfall Ed hat in my life, and so my husband talked me into putting it into high risk startups so. My first check was into space x and I have to tell you like taking everything that I worked really really hard on for many many years because it was true sweat equity and putting it into something that was literally blowing up on launch pads at the time was incredibly difficult decision for me. So basically, what got me started and then I made a series of not so great investments. After that, and just like all investors do you learn as you go along? So I've been investing for about ten or more years now and when I started investing, there were very few early stage investors. We kind of all knew each other and the ecosystem it's flourishing and there's lots of early stage angel seed investors now in. So at some point remedy like combinator kind of really hit A. Stride, some of the valuations of companies were out of whack and so I took a step back in decided I. was going to go work Angeles a little little while and help Nepal with syndicates because I was leading my own syndicates and I had a lot of fun there and that's where I met Jacobs, who's my partner at long journey ventures and we basically saw eye-to-eye on a lot. Of things and we worked together on building the ecosystem for Angeles, and we all love working with the ball and that kind of sent the international signal that I was horrible because I think a lot of people didn't think I was higher -able. So Bryan Singer men reached out to me and I'll never forget this meeting I had with him. He took me to breakfast and I was expecting. Him To talk to me about like relationship stuff for something like that. But he then asked the question he said, Hey, we had a whiteboard and we're trying to figure out who our next partner is going to be because we just raise a new big fund and we need help deploying it and your name was at the top of the list and I have to tell you about cried. There's very few venture firms I would join and found her son is one of them, and so the opportunity to work with that team for four years just phenomenal. But I also discovered that I'm not cut out for late stage investing. It makes me deeply unhappy. So I decided to go back to my roots and do early stage and who better to do it with than Li to be honest with you. So that's kind of the genesis of dernie. I. Love that in terms of the Genesis and find, you'll have to offline space isis. Chat to got out, she make it challenging because you have such a great. I check it's kind of hard to live up. Did you make it challenging post that not really because I assumed I kind of buried that nut. So to speak kind of like a squirrel and at some point, it would turn into something at first though I thought that I'd made potentially the worst financial decision of my life and I think that when that ended up not being the case in SPACEX start having successful launches in the trajectory. Of space x started taking off literally I became more bold rather than less. So I think that it definitely gave me fuel if you will to launch my own career. So I was very fortunate to have access to a company like that. At my first check, a lot of people don't have access to those sorts of the old. So I think that I was incredibly lucky to be able to put my first check in there I love this face she's in space x amount to use that we've got going here. winning. On port and then on the first space is and obviously changes of treasuries around personal finance, hustle wealth and. Leaving home and building a life fuel south. I guess with such a journey how do you think about that? I think a lot about but how do you think about your relationship to money today and how it's changed over time? It's funny because I used to hate money literally eight many. Where did you? So I started out being a capitalist in my younger years and I felt that. All corporations were greedy and the only way that people rows ahead of anybody else was through nefarious means I definitely fell along those lines of thinking partially it was because of lack of experience and because I was also down out myself, and so I looked at the world around me and it just seemed kind of unfair when you have that mindset then kind of all of those things become. True internally. Right and I changed that mindset when I started my first job and then also when I started my first business in when I started realizing the power of capitalism and the power of being able to earn a paycheck and the pride in the sense of wellbeing that it gave me that was incredibly transformative. But for a while, I had an unhealthy relationship with money. There's a funny. Story that one of my best friends loves to tell which is I would get home from work and that empty out my pockets and I was thrilled all the money on the floor by the time I moved out of this apartment, which was like a year and a half. Later, I'm not joking you like a good centimeter centimeter and a half of change and money all over the floor. and Luckily ended up being a lot of money and we ended up going to coin star and it into things that could actually use but I just didn't like touching it was almost like I was money phobic it was really weird in so even to this day like I, if I have changed in my pocket to get rid of it. So luckily tip jars everywhere and so any cash that I have on me that's kind of spare I just shove it into a tip jar I've been doing that for quite some time now because I really don't like carrying it on me but I do. Like making it. If I wasn't investor, you know maybe I'd be doing other things but I get really excited when he does really well and there's an exit and then I can redeploy that money into yet another company. So a lot of my investment style is evergreen even though I'm wealthy on paper often cash for redeploy almost every dollar back into the ecosystem that I don't live off of sell I? Think that shocks people sometimes because sometimes people expect you to have a ton of liquidity that you can just have available to you at any given time, but that's not necessarily true for everybody including. Me So anytime I have an exit, it's a celebratory moment not for my own personal gain but because that means that more start ups are going to flourish I have another chance at it again, if I were to fail over and over again, there goes my chances I mean I guess the question arises to me from that is like risk is often what stops people you need to have an accident and then they say things and she's tons of finance products, but you're going to provide stability to them how do you think and again it's another deeply. But how do you think as a result? Your relationship was race given what you just said a lot of risk and I think with great risk comes great reward. If you're risk averse some people are incredibly good at being risk averse and investing and I really admire them because there's people who will deliberate over a deal and maybe only do one or two deals a year and those deals end up being great but that's hard to do. It's really really hard to do and I admire it because it takes a certain analytical ability quantitative ability to be able to do that I'm more qualitative and I'm definitely driven by pattern matching gut instinct watching. Reading things constantly but it's not necessarily data driven. I just have hunches that things are going to work and I have a good feeling about the people who are building those things I. think that I take extraordinary risks and sometimes it makes people uncomfortable. But often means that the first check in I'm sometimes largest check and I moved very quickly and that's how I win some of the deals that I win. I. Don't recommend that people with out that level of conviction to do that strategy because it may not work out it works out for me and I trust my conviction and so when you learn to trust yourself and trust your convictions and think that definitely works in your favor have you always trusted convictions because blending in the pulse myself invested any been investing states re as I've had I haven't trusted them because if Market size or whatever analysis will theory that I've done, and it's in most cases not what town but I haven't trusted it because avenue experience I've been learning have you wish trusted information? Has it come with time and success I? Think I've always trusted my convictions even before I was an investor and harshly is survivor as someone who depends on making decisions just literally to survive you know I come from the streets. You have to have conviction rate. You can't really not have conviction. So I think that I've always had it. The I decided I wanted to leave school I left school I make very quick decisions and I do think that some people find that intimidating and sometimes these decisions are wrong and I go back and reevaluate like thinking on that and then maybe adjust how I react to things in the future but I Tend to be some call it impulsive but I think high conviction in quick totally agree with you in terms of the importance on the mass inside Naci Nice but before the show is Katherine Boyle at general chemists foolish combine them set about half It was actually the accounts from boil. It said in terms of the feeling you got with founder she said, how incredible you all of it but she said. How do you test founders portrays like grits resilience in tunnel fines, and what is that like conviction come from when meeting them ella man pattern recognition I. Guess I think that I am a very curious person and I talked to so many people from all walks of life and I don't do go search people before I meet them. It's a hard and fast rule for me. So that way when I go and. I meet them. I'm getting a very raw unfiltered version of them other than what they're kind of putting up as if Assad to me right. But my version of them is unfiltered and so all I know at the time when I meet them is that their founder and they're starting something and I just want to know more about it. So the first question I ask every single founder is tell me their story. Might not the business I want to hear about the business. I want to hear about how they got to where they are and why this problem because every single human being has choice on how to spend their time what causes them to wake up in the morning and decide and choose to do the thing that they're pitching me on and a lot of the Times. I make up my mind about a person before. About the product within that first ten minutes of them, telling me their story, and often what they do is they tell you a story of resilience and maybe they're a founder who came from Pakistan and they came to America and the journey to get to America is incredibly hard and so that shows grit right to be able to like leave a country and come to America is extraordinary or they were on the streets themselves or they put themselves through college. One of the things I'm looking for is overcoming some kind of hardship. Some kind of struggle that someone had and a lot of times. It's really interesting because the struggle leads them to the problem they're trying to solve A. Great example of this is siren care. The founder comes from a family of basically podiatrists who treat people with diabetic foot and she was expected to go to school to basically also become a doctor. She had tiger parents who expected her to follow their footsteps and she decided she didn't want to because she was really upset at having to watch her mother amputate people's feet and instead wanted to solve the problem so that the imputations never happened in the first place. So she grew up in this environment the fact that she rejected going to school in favor of starting this company at win against parental advice, which can be incredibly hard to go against for a lot of people to start. A sock company that monitors temperature on people's feet i. mean it was a no brainer for me once I heard that story and then I saw kind of how she navigates working with people the product than the rest of the story comes into play right. So I think that's how I get to quit conviction on people and a lot of times people are really surprised. I asked this question that means the other investors don't which I find weird. You know we have this period of time at the beginning of a pitch meeting where you have an opportunity to get to know each other but what I see other people do is they sort of exchange niceties like social lubricant if You will what did you do this week and how are you? Okay let's get to the point where he working on but you're not going to figure out who the person is sitting across from me with those types of questions. You're just listen I totally agree with you, which is while two questions kind of like St, which is relationship to money relationship to risk relationship with parents. Often I'm totally with you in that respect one thing that I find challenging is how we denigrate people's desire for money actually, and some founded will say I. Just WanNa make on money and I think this is the best way to do it and I find the stop while kind of chastises as an It in this. Way Do you think it's fair and how do you think about it? When founders like Achy just fundamentally hungry for wealth creation it depends on what they wanna do that wealth creation, right? They could turn into Elon Musk and I'm sure that Ilan was Ilan in the beginning days of his trajectory and maybe he was out to have lots of money but now he's transformed. The world with electric cars and potentially space travel and private rocket launches. So I think that sometimes you start out with just wanting money as your goal but then you learn that just having money in lots of it is kind of not fun. It does not make you happy. It makes life easier like you don't have to sit and count your change at the cash. Register. At a make sure you have enough money for everything that's on the conveyor belt rate. You know it's a different type of life but at the same time I don't think we should demonize it I. think there's nothing wrong with anybody on this planet wanting to make money and I think that it's a beautiful thing because then it gives you freedom to do other things and. Those other things could be giving back to other people so that they also have freedom to do other things. So there's a lot of ways that people could go with it. I. Think demonizing is wrong. You'll never find me demonizing a single human being that wants to make money. You Mention Space starring you mentioned don't, and we chatted a little bit about it before the. I'm in order for you know when you look at say Edith Space and the number of your investments as inherent market timing scan. Is. Something that I always feel very uncomfortable taking as a risk category. So to speak, how do you think about an approach market timing is risk when you're investing stay? Well, sometimes I'm wrong it's all about timing ray and sometimes invested in company that's too early, and then what happens is they fail and then five years later timing is right and then somebody else does it and they succeed and that's happened to me. I'm not always right on timing, but the question I ask myself is, do I believe in the future? This entrepreneur sees so clearly in their mind if I do believe in that future, do I believe that they're the right person to execute it in? So let's look at Travis from Uber. For example. So Travis was a no-brainer because he is aggressive he is competitive. He is a lot of the things that people say. About him he's also brilliant. There's a lot of things about him that people never got to see because the media anytime you rise and you do well, the media starts to kick in and usually you're not there darling I'll just put it that way if it bleeds, it leads, and so they'll do everything they can take you down and Uber definitely had missteps culturally they pushed people to move fast things and challenge all. Regulations et CETERA. But in order to be literally a world changing company, they had to do that and they had to have those behaviors. They weren't going to be able to do it by being nice all the time. So lift has benefited from Uber and Uber definitely helped pave the way for lift to exist lift had a luxury if you will of being the Nice company with the pink colors in the fist bumping so. Does. That make them a better company? No duopoly one was doing the fist fighting and the other one was putting on a marketing face of being the kinder gentler company I take both lifting Uber. I've had shares in lift and hoover. At this point they're kind of fungible. So I think this point I mostly interviewed drivers to see who's the happiest in who's treated the best in that indicates who I will ride with. Right now I have a problem with Uber, I'm locked out of my account, which is kind of ironic, and it's just too much effort to reset my password like I went through the reset process. It was too painful. So they have a UI problems I just decided to switch to lift for the time being so for years and years and years probably eight or nine years I wrote Uber and now I'm writing lift. When I'm asked I actually like left to in London away. But in assets lists, I do want to ask one thing I wanted to ask you what you mentioned earlier but you mentioned kind of pricing being behind him out of the time when you angel was pricing now at levels that I've never seen before twenty five priests who seed Saint by the multi-stage funds, when nothing that and great for the entrepreneurial ecosystem in some respects. It now with long journey and investing on your own, how do you think Bob necess- urine relationship to price and price sensitivity coming in the seed. Well, what's going to happen is there's going to be a reckoning in they're always as one market work itself out where people look at their returns seven eight years from now, and they're not going to be great and so I think that will create some discipline in the market. So one of the things I love about my partner Lee Jacobs is he's incredibly disciplined and you know like he founded long journey and I joined him and I joined him because. He has this level of discipline. I can become irrationally excited about a deal, but the price can be out of whack and then you have to sort of do the economics. Okay. In you say like, okay will how much dilution am I gonNa take on my actually do my Peralta. How does this play out of this company becomes a billion dollars, ten, billion dollars, etc. because everything has a intimate in point value it's not infinite and I think some people think that things are infinite. But if you actually count how many companies in the last ten years have been worth overton billion dollars, it's very few right? To be able to get those kinds of returns, you've got to be more price sensitive and the other thing is that I, think that people have promo and so they don't want to miss the deal of the century and the deal of the century look good on the outside because you see only valuations being posted. But what you don't see are the returns that people are. Making on those valuations, right. So I think somebody pointed out the other day and it was very wise which is a company that exits for two hundred and fifty million dollars that you have better economics on is a better return profile than a company that exits for a billion dollars that you don't. So if you're in the returns business, you should definitely care about these things. And next the business I'm in in so I think that it long journey were often the first check in we have led deals now that we're excited about and we have to get our target ownership, which is not as bad as as high. I. Shouldn't say bad but as high as some other firms are some fifteen twenty percent ownership and we actually aim for percent where. Seed funding for small. But I think that people who are not conscious of this. What's going to happen is at the end of the road LP's at the end of the day, look at returns, and then the fund managers that have the best returns will continue in the ones that don't will probably have to hang up there. What do you make the big multi-stage from the? Names that we're talking about here. What do you make of them going? So aggressively back into seve has been quite a few deals where Hammond done. Now because they said that twenty five, seventy, preseason, lundy hundred, two, Fifty Kate Jackson, it just doesn't make any sense at that point but what do you make of multi-stage being? So aggressive it seat so it's a strategy and it's A strategy to cut out the seed ecosystem and other series a investors down the road. So there are certain firms like a sixteen, etc the ownership targets in. So if you want to ruin their chances of getting the ownership targets down the road, you gobble up ownership early in. So that's the strategy that they're deploying, which if they're the bigger firms that are multi stayed they. Don't make money necessarily at the seed they make money identifying and plowing money into A and B, and so in order to have that relationship already in place, it takes writing seed check or at Angel check if you will has so many different names now, I don't know what to call it anymore. But that I check that a company gets often you'll see these multi state. Funds, right a million dollars or something to them, and they usually don't let angels in unless it's like a tiny bit like UK or one hundred K. or whatever, and then the seed seed funds definitely don't participate and part of that is just too. Literally it's sharp elbows at the series and B. Level. There's a reason I'm not cut out for that type of investing is my. Very. Star Pie Tin to like collaborative party rounds I like it when everybody does well, I often have scaled down my allocations to let people in two deals that I think are beneficial to the company because I think if they help the company we all benefit I do think that some people definitely don't this world in that same way and that can be challenging and I understand it I don't WanNa, knock them because end of the day they're looking at returns as well and they're trying to get the best returns possible and sometimes that means having sharp elbows. But at the seed stage I tend to like the angel approach to things where the more the merrier if the. Founder wants to have him twentieth. US. than. They have ten twenty of US versus just one person I think having one person one fund and be detrimental because if they don't follow on your kind of dead in the Water Yup absolutely, and on the flip side there, you can have no one doing it because there's too many people with Exactly. There's a lot that's not optimized right now on the ecosystem I think it will be over time. But right now, there's just abundance of early stage capital and we'll see where it all lands, but it takes a while to figure it out. We'll see who has the best strategies and what actually works down the Road Donald could tell. Giving, you got conviction around people and then give him east thereby Sharp. Alabama's bunny have sought human fest and people fussed approach. Help me out here. How do you deal with when found is not performing when Z. is not meeting expectations? What does that conversation look like this is an area of growth for me I think because sometimes I am conflict avoidance Ah love being helpful in then when it comes to giving that hard advice, I like literally loosely Brit for someone who so blunt and open like when you're telling somebody where they're failing. I, try to be very careful with what I say and how I say it to people because there. Are Power Dynamics right and like your investor calling you weapon being like, wow you're really screwing up should be repair and I've had to have those calls and they're they're tough in a lot of time to ask to do with management style and a great example of this would be working with HP Trivia have a lot of phone calls for that. Company is an example of a very high conviction investment that I did that went wrong but times people are doing their best with the tools they have in their tool shed right lake we often in people with little to no prior experience managing large teams or scaling businesses. It's not like they woke. Up and somehow through osmosis gained these skills and a lot of them are afraid to reach out for help because of the poll crushing, killing it nature of our world where they have to put on a good face and pretend like everything's okay. So I just think you have to be careful about how you do it but it's really important that we do do it because when we withhold this information and we don't tell them how we're thinking, they don't have an opportunity to learn about themselves. The other thing is that if they choose not to take my advice, that's their prerogative how he's tell every entrepreneur that they have a choice on how They act on my inputs because I'm not running the company day to day see the nuances of everything I. Don't understand the business likely do this is just an observation from the outside and I could be wrong but also could be very right. But this is an area where I'm constantly trying to improve because you can really destroy morale and you can add negative value to a company which I try not to do with, and and this is often say my voice completely conflict avoidance being the trooper that I am but you have to also when you think about Hd Trivia, I'm never fly Oh, you learn more from not liking them from something working. Right, in many respects without some big takeaways, even being are being so both as he settled many who's being able to see what well sometimes the market tells you things and you should listen and not be as contrarian as I tend to be. So there's a reason everybody pulled their term sheets. So it was one of the most competitive deals that was out there. I think there wasn't a single firm that didn't issue a term she and I waited and waited and waited to see like. How? The news would pan out with what was going on with the CO founder. Colin and I am skeptical of media and so when there is a narrative that is dominant, are their narrative violations to be had that's something that Jeff Lewis came up with I. Know that people use that all the time now but definitely violations out there and I believe that in the metoo movement, there was a spectrum which again controversial to even talk about a spectrum that movement. But of really bad actors like. Weinstein and the Olympic coach who abused hundreds of girls to someone who said something not so great at work that is a far I call it a canyon of difference and Holland was in that category where he something inappropriate work and so I had to figure out whether or not I forgave that situation and whether or not it warranted ruining his career in the company not being funded ultimately I decided that I would take a stand for him. It shouldn't ruin his career but what discounted was The founder relationship between him and his CO founder. So that was something that was always in the back of my mind was in the back of everybody's mind and I'd chose to ignore it even though it was right in front of my face because I had some weird belief that they built bind together in that works. So maybe there's some sort of magic to their dysfunction. So is a narrative i. told myself there was no magic to their dysfunction they were dysfunctional together and why they chose. To start, another company together is mysterious to me but and I may never understand that they both were incredibly gifted in gifted and talented but could not see eye to eye as founders, and when you have those kinds of conflicts, they will break a company. Now I've adjusted how I invest in companies to win a company has multiple co-founders. I ask a question, which is, how do you resolve conflicts? How long have you guys known each other? What's last conflict you had together so now I Do a lot more investigation around conflict. This is why I also love husband wife and brother sister and brother brother sibling teams is often they've had an entire lifetime or many many years to resolve conflicts rate. Some people shy away from those teams, but I actually get really excited about the collins a great example for Stripe but definitely changed my style of investing. Probably we'll see in the future probably for the best where hopefully I can avoid investing in companies that have underlying founder conflicts so that Company. Failed entirely because of boundary conflicts it was the right time. It was the right product H. Trivia was transformative and could have been how we consume media in the future had they played their cards right but if you had a lot of infighting and you don't have a good culture and you don't have a cohesive team than these things fall apart especially of your lightning in a bottle and you're moving really fast like they had to. Yeah. I totally agree with you I really appreciate you. Being so open with that kind of the Media Darren can of challenges with respect to push back from the media at one thing that was on twitter. Last night. When I put out about I've got signed coming on the show tomorrow what should I ask him one person mentioned taking words here at pro. COP Anti. B. M. tweets the Santana if you ago towards me about is the thing is it's our by site I didn't even had asked the question without potentially endings having offended someone with. Some. Brennan. The mighty way to say. To me about as well. Okay. So first of all, I'm pretty sure if you go through my entire history through podcasts twitter, whatever I have the words. I. Am Against Bill Him have never come out of my mouth. So I don't know where people get that. One of the things I've learned recently is that people like to infer things and if you speak in what sounds like. A declaration they tried to infer or piece in things that they think might be true about you. I think this is also a flaw of two beautiful thing. It connects people in ways that are just profound but at the same time, it also destroys people and I think that for someone to come up a person based off of one hundred, forty characters that they may have said or. The inferred that they said is frankly wrong and I am not typical in that I don't sit and deliberate over every little thing that comes out of my mouth before I say it. The other thing is that I do support black lives matter protesters I do think that a majority of the movement is well intentioned I do think that police need to be demilitarized I am pro. Some amount of police. So he was right about that. I think it's a very complicated thing to talk about one hundred, forty characters. So people try to get you to say very precise statements that you're either for something or against something, and it's a very polarizing thing that people are doing online. So they come after you and they'll say something like if you're pro police, you're racist. That's not true. It's just absolutely not true and there's a lot of people out there who have the road is paved with good intentions but they're out policing thought policing people's language. They're out to point out every wrongdoing that you've ever done eventually were all wrong. Eventually, we all fuck up, and then sometimes these words don't have the gravity that they should have. Racism is a very. Serious thing in which it is wrong every way. But if you go around pointing finger at everybody calling everybody a racist that nobody's really racist straight like we have to stand up against these things now granted he didn't use that word but that's where that line of thinking goes next, which is if I don't wear a black lives matter shirt or I'm not out there marching with people. And even worse if I'm not destroying businesses and I'm not part of ANTIFA, I don't support Antifa up and suddenly all of these things which I clearly not. So the reason why I didn't think this was spicy was that I can deny all of it because it's just not true. So I, think people here and see what they wanna what they want to hear I know who? I am I am confident in who I am I make mistakes Scher but also very organically out in the open and I question things around me and I don't just accept the dominant narrative in any given thing. So yeah, I'm GonNa say some things sometimes it might be stupid but I'm also speaking sometimes for people who are afraid to speak. So every time I say something that gets. I can't tell you the thousands of people on the other side who message me saying Gosh I wish I could have said this I can't get fired I mean how horrible is that we live in a time where you can save something that is one hundred, forty characters or less because maybe you're busy that day and you didn't think it all the way through and it's just a career ender for you like should meet with a world that's that intolerant I don't think so I think it's miserable. Does it hut I occasionally got someone say something Nice about me notification he's that much anymore more frequently than they used to and it really has me I honestly my. Day Does it you and how do you think back the research? Sure. It hurts I've had days where I'm just going to be honest with you. I've cried all day long because I can't understand how people come to these conclusions and how they could have so much hatred in their hearts I don't even want to relive this moment but there was probably the first time. I. Was almost cancelled and the amount of death threats that I got was insane now luckily I know that most of those are just empty threats they make people feel good and underlying I. Think those people are really hurting inside and so the way that they can feel good a momentary amount goodness is To lash out at somebody and tell them something horrific. The other thing is some of its trolling which is looking for any kind of response from me. They can get under my skin. It makes them feel really good. So I understand trolls, I've done a really deep dived study into troll troll culture in I've even hung out with lots of trolls to try to understand them figure out what they're all about and why they're motivated do what they do but mostly it's just to point out hypocrisy and the other thing is to rile you up and get a response. So I admit that day day after that it worked it got to me and I had to get off. Line for a little while I had to recuperate and then I decided I was gonna come back stronger because I was like you know what? I'm not GonNa let this happen to me because one I know who I am. I know what I'm about and what I'm not about and my friends and family, and the people I work with know who I am and what I'm about an anybody who questions that is welcome to have dinner with me or have a phone call and they can learn for themselves. Some of the people who threatened me I wrote back to them. I said I still sorry that you resorting to threatening me a lot of them backpedalled afterwards said, I'm. Sorry that was really rude and I'm like, yeah, it's really rude people don't think that you're even reading what they write. So that's the other thing they get shocked when you respond to them and then they realize, Oh, I'm not being a good person. So you're saying stuff off the cuff to look we're all busy people doing the best. We can I think a lot of people don't realize just how busy I am I am a parent. A lot of people don't know that I am a investor and over hundreds of companies in their overhead to that I'm part of a team I can't possibly be expected to know every single detail about every current event that's going. On in this world, no one should be expected, and so we don't always have all the tools to respond to something. Does that mean we should just be quiet because I don't think that's how we get to. The right answer is by being quiet if someone can't challenge you and challenge assumptions than how do you get to the right answers don't what happens you just start getting lonely and afraid and unfortunately sometimes radicalized the more we try to silence other people the more radical they're going to become. It's just GonNa push each other to the opposite extremes and to be honest with you I think that's a really dangerous place where people are so afraid to speak they doubled. Down on some of their bad ideas do nothing. That's why we now we're getting there absolutely I think we have not seen the worst I think it's going to get worse and this is what happens when they're red scare where everybody was a communist or being gay at the guy was pink than he must be gay. Then there's witch-hunts historically we've had multiple of these events in history and right now this is no different except for I. Think it's really misguided. I think that systemic racism exists I think profiling exists I think that a lot of the things that they're talking about are real issues that exist but I think the solutions to the problems are not necessarily the. Best. So I disagree a lot with the prescription that is given if you will, which is to go around and finger pointing and blame everyone for constantly rather than just started addressing the issue that's how I choose to deal with current events is I have a few wedge issues that I really care about and so I just decided to focus on those and I'm not going to tweet a bunch of platitudes that are meaningless like there's all these companies and founders and people who the problem of the day whatever it is they'll change their profile picture to that thing so they can fit in and look like they care and some of these people are some of the worst. Industry like if you look at people who are just like really outspoken about women's rights in the me too movement later on, you discover that they were predators themselves right so I do question people's motives win. They are so outspoken about certain causes whatever it is. So I just decided I'm not going to champion all of these causes that I'm not as knowledgeable about but there are certain things I care about the second amendment of our Constitution I also care. About mass incarceration and people being put away for drug crimes. So I think those are things that I'm very passionate about in also homelessness rate, your things that experienced in. So I'm just going to focus on those things and I was focusing on them before this happened I'm GonNa keep focusing on it. So I'm not going to jump on the latest parade because I'm guilted into it I'll just put it that way. Can Us you mentioned medicine science is over Friends in San Francisco tribute to San Francisco two hundred percents is out of control. How do you think about homelessness in San Francisco and how do you think a solution based around the diversity is the solution to that. So we have no diversity in politics. So if your government has been run by the far-left for so long and it's not working, it's time to look at alternatives. So I think the issue is that we need to see people running for office here. That are probably more centrists because they think somebody on the far. Right or the right is not the answer for the city. I think it's too polarizing but I think someone in the center with more right leaning thoughts on the spectrum of thoughts is what the city needs. I understand that you're in England and you have your own political stuff going on over there but I do think that Conservatives and Democrats I keep saying liberals because a lot of conservatives are actually more liberal, which is really weird. But Conservatives and Democrats play a very important role in society and it's not an all or nothing. Sort of thing we're all born with our own unique ability to look at the world. There's neuro diversity that is really really some people are not neuro typical all the same. We don't come to the same conclusions and sometimes we're born with certain brains that lead a certain way right and so I think the way the I choose to look at this is I think the Democrats are really good at short-term thinking really good at innovation really good at challenging everything but not necessarily understanding the long term repercussions of their actions or thoughts. So I think that the Conservative Party is much more concerned about the long term consequences of any short term thinking and so thus they're conservative. So they moved slowly it's not that they're against change. It's not that they don't want things to happen. It's just that they believe there's a different timeline in which change happens and it should be thoughtful and it should be deliberated and that the issue of the day is not necessarily the leading reason why things should be changed that it should be really thought about because people's minds change culture fluctuates. And so they're very thoughtful about that. There's also flaws on the conservative side because sometimes it can be too conservative and they may not move fast enough. But I would argue that in the last hundred years, we haven't accelerate of change which is unprecedented in part of that is due to pop culture, which is mostly dominated by the left. So I have to give credit where credit's due the reason why we have some of the rights we have around gay rights is because of shows like will and grace and queer eye for the. Straight guy those really move the needle when you watch television and you see someone who is like you on TV then you start looking around you and you're like, okay well, my brother is gay my game, my sister's Gay I love these people and it just opens up your heart and then eventually societal norms change and then everybody gets on the same page and we move in the right direction. So I think what would solve homelessness in San? Francisco is literally diversity of politics because currently the solutions of just take more and more money. And throw it at the situation as not solving, it hasn't solved and it doesn't seem to be solving. So I think we different ideas at the table in Nice for someone in order people are saying that this is kind of the end the concentration of talent enjoy lives lost many decades, time line, and when you look at the happened since Covid, it kind of suggests that you think this is the end for the concentration monopoly opponent San. Francisco's how would you believe in the standing to the future could hold it's interesting. To me how a lot of people have fled San. Francisco to Red States hearing about people going to Montana and Wyoming and Texas and I'm not an Austin Texas I mean. Some of them are liberal enclaves like if you look at Montana and you look at blue. Sky. Soon as you go into that town, the political science start changing from trump twenty, twenty, two, Biden Harris rate. But at the same time, I do think that they benefit from some of the conservative thinking of these states and that's why they're going there because they're like. I feel safer here. Why do you feel safer there? Could it be that everybody believes in the Second Amendment? Possibly or Gosh. Quality of life is so much higher here will why is that? There's all sorts of interesting things I find a little ironic that they want these things out of life but could not figure out how to make it work here and I think we can make that work here I do think that politically we are so messed up that this town is eating itself and it's caused these problems to be honest with you like there's a reason start staying there's a reason that people are fleeing. That's because of San Francisco frankly all of California you can only tax people so much, and then eventually they're just like, gosh, every dollar and making I take home thirty cents. Of course they're going to lead to a state that has better taxes. Really that's what it's coming down to is that people feel unsafe. Here we have a DA chester who will not prosecute crimes. I just found out yesterday a friend of mine whose house was burglarized. The perpetrators were let out of San Quentin for Kobe, they robbed his house almost kicked in the door of his neighbor who had a child home these folks have been let go and are not going to be prosecuted. So when you don't prosecute crimes or you called and quality of life crimes, people are going to move elsewhere they feel safer and whether they can defend themselves and their families. So why does he? Designed for low conviction rate I, mean how? Wasn't very complicated tasks and I don't know the full extent of it. But I do know that his parents are convicted murderers and I think that probably shaped his world view as a child and as a young adult where he has great compassion and sympathy for criminal behavior. So I think heart is in the right place where he believes that he can give people second third fourth fifth chances right and eventually come around. To doing the right things but if you can get away with doing things constantly than what is the deterrent? Not at some point, people have to protect themselves and they're already starting like I can't tell you how many people's opinions of the second. amendment. In San Francisco have changed. If anything that silver lining of all of this is that there's more gun ownership and more people who are pro home in self-defense than ever before. And so I think to me that's a silver lining to someone else it's their personal nightmare, right but chess creating this the state of California's creating this. It's really interesting how people don't see that they're eating themselves to this town is just literally eating itself. When crowned from it, I don't know I don't have a crystal ball. I really don't know I know that people are really happy moving to Colorado and wherever they've moved. To. Arizona in there like Gosh I have a swimming pool and a yard and I live in a neighborhood where I can walk around and I'm not stepping in feces like, wow what a change because part of izzy become. So desensitized to this that you don't even realize when I travel I, locked my car wherever I go and then my friends and other places are like, why do you lock your car? It's so weird. I'm like, how do you feel so safe? That's really weird. So from London we look. To Say Yes I actually think that now that rents are going down in property values going down I, think more conservative should move to San Francisco and maybe we can turn this place around I won't do a tweet now to violation as a contrarian I'm thinking off don't. Moving to San Francisco trouble. Was it believe me ended up potentially screwed awesome. My mother would read it and should probably kill meat. So chickenfeed. I do want to move into my favorite adamantly on I'd love to equip Firearms Isaiah Short statement and you give me your immediate his sound. Great. Okay. So tell me what's the favorite book and why so I have to admit which is I've read very few books. Same as me got everyone comes on like Oh i read like three week and ready I read maybe even a year if I'm lucky that's how busy I am. I. Have a couple of things that make it hard for me to read. One is really busy into I have add and so if I sit down and I look at a book, it has to be absolutely riveting for me to to sit and read it otherwise I read a chapter two and I put it down on and I walk away. So I'm going to say my favorite book it's going to be very cliche but it is what it is, which had snow crash by Neil Stevenson and. Probably seconded by Diamond Age, by Nielsen, it's really funny because I'm mentoring someone and he asked me the same question and he has everybody saying question and most people gave him business books but I gave him snow crash and he was really surprised by it because he said it's really interesting how nobody thinks that I in particular would like science fiction and so always recommend that people read science fiction because I think it helps us think about the future and what the future could look like. So I, think some of the best business books believe it or not or science fiction books I. Love I was worried you were going to say sapiens. So at least snow crash. Yet I haven't read it yet I mean just I can't say that because I don't know what it's about how ratings, how having children change your operating investment mindset view of the world. Well, I'm fascinated by what they're into. I think that it helps me like I understood that roadblocks was going to be a thing before had its meteoric rise just by watching kids play it so that there are certain insights that they give you about the future and what it looks like they're kind of like science fiction novels themselves just like we were to our parents and our parents were. To our grandparents we do things differently at a rate that exceeds the previous generation, and so by all measures, they're exceeding us because of their access to information that's just at the tip of their fingertips, but they also do things. So differently, like touchscreens with voice to text, Siri is actually a real thing in their world whereas a lot of grownups you don't see them using it at the same level that I see kids using at I think it's fascinating I. Think if anything it made me more focused on how I spend my time, I'm not open about it online for A. Variety of reasons, and I've become a little more open about it just because I have an eighteen year old now and she actually wants me to talk about her. So for a long time I would not talk about her because I really felt that she needed understand what privacy meant, and she needed to understand kind of the cost of giving up that privacy. But recently, we had a discussion and she was very excited about joining pop shop live and discussing her openly. I don't think that she feels this way. But some kids feel because we over share our children online from. The moment they're like conceived literally to every diaper change and every everything some kids can think gosh. My parents don't love me or care about me because they don't tweet about me constantly or they don't put me up on instagram constantly but that can be further from the truth from me I live. Fiercely, it's a big thing to understand standard the cost that can privilege of privacy one or the privilege but you know the cost of being out there and change she. She understands this huge amount to understand at any age today. Yeah I think she understands it more I think that. Tends to be a generalization but based on my limited experience of kids range but I do think that they tend to be more private and they tend to have tighter social circles online and they have like a public persona and private persona, and sometimes even a secretive persona that nobody knows about and they also tend to be very, very minimal. They want for very little all they want to be as happy in. So I think it's really interesting change from previous generations that I'm witnessing the ambitions are different. The goals are different, it's very different and it's a sad time right now in twenty twenty for kids, her age kids were supposed to graduate from school and they're supposed to have a ceremony and they built up their whole lives around this moment and Kobe just basically it all away. So I think it'll be a very defining moment for this generation like what we're experiencing right now and the repercussions of it are going to be long lasting. So it'll be interesting to see what happens but I learned a Lot from young people and I think that people if you have kids or don't have kids should spend time with younger people because they have a lot to teach us I totally agree as someone very young I totally agree with you tell me what's the single battery tiny investment and how did it come about? Well, that'd be Uber by far the story behind that was had a driver that took me to the airport in a towncar was Roger I've been out of touch with Rogers I don't know Rodriguez. But Roger was one of the first drivers for Uber and Uber for started the marketplace obviously needed to be seated because it didn't work naturally until it was. So they hired a bunch of drivers to drive around for them people until they could get that flywheel going and actually start making the market work. So Roger in his family were the first group of drivers like he started doing so well that he started bringing in more family members from Brazil and eventually had like ten cars on the road when. He took me to the airport and he handed me the business cards, Ryan Graves, and he said I'm working for this company called Uber Cab in future don't book me directly try to use the APP and he's like it's cheaper than what I charge because I charge a minimum of two hours in this is like by the ride. So I started using Uber, cab and at the time I think I texted to get a car I think the wasn't where it is today by any means and was interesting. Because Ryan's phone number and address was not local and I really wondered why a taxi company was not even located where they were taking it on. So I kind of dismissed it based off of that and didn't call Ryan right away and Roger insisted every single time I went to the airport you need to call Ryan you need to call Ryan and he kept giving updates on the business, and basically it was when I met Travis for the first time at an off site event that was on so. The other thing that I do is I kinda catalog founders I, meet them that are interesting and just sort of store them away for future looking at what they do next Travis was basically not working on anything at the time and he was incredibly aggressive in nature in all of the things I told you about earlier. So I thought well, that's a really interesting person who's outspoken and definitely sticks out. So like I'm GonNa keep track of him. Well, I saw him presenting Uber at another event and I Thought that was very fascinating because he was pitching it as an investor because Ryan couldn't make it to this event because Ryan was the CEO at the time and I had this epiphany that someone who's that aggressive in nature wasn't going to let someone else be the CEO of the company for long and most likely he was the right person to take on the taxi industry. So I made a decision which I posted the email where I emailed my husband and I said, we need to put money in Uber. And he said how much and I wrote back how much and then I got to work just finally getting hold of Ryan Graves in Tel the investment happened story that is I did not. She got on the full background that little tidbits as the full story. Okay. So moving from not investment to you wish recent investment tell me what was the Publicly announced the best. Why did you say? Yes, sir slices cash drop might be the most recently announced public investment castroneves. Amazing. First of all, sometimes when I download an APP and try and APP if I love the person afterwards in that Kohl sort of inception story pans out for me that I talk about Ben I'm just one hundred percent and this was no exception downloaded the APP and tried it was amazing and then I got on. The phone with Rubin, the founder, and what an amazing story he has he came here is an undocumented immigrant and went to school graduated at the top of his class. He's a Paulie Mac. He's brilliant and eventually worked his way into getting a US citizenship, which again, going back to what I was talking about is incredibly challenging to do and hard there's a lot of friction to it. So he's a dreamer and the fact that he's A. Polymath I also find interesting. So he's really really good pianist. He's got so many skills and their amazing, and he's basically setting out to change the world for people who are like him, and it really resonates with me because those people are also like meat. So there's people who are entrepreneurial on a smaller scale who running Taco stand or hotdog stand or selling a t shirt or vinyl pen is literally life changing for them in. So what? He's made is a friction list super simple way to listen item and put it up for sale that could be done socially or in person and the rate of growth that he's had on. This is just incredible and so for me, it was just like a no-brainer investment I was so excited to invest in it. I just think that again it's the founder journey. His journey is just incredible. So I admit that I have a soft spot for. Immigrants IF ANYTHING GLEAN IMMIGRANT BIASED I tend to like people that come to this country who still understand why this country is so precious and understand what they're leaving behind why there's opportunity here I think multigenerational immigrants such as myself sometimes lose touch with that right we all came here from somewhere and I think people forget about the struggles that our families had in where they came from to make America I. think that that's part of what's. Going on right now with a lot of the protests is that we've forgotten also a group of people who also help make America in. So I, think that that's also at the core of the pain in the sorrow and the suffering of what people's families have gone through and that journey for those families is incredibly hard. So I'm always impressed with people who talk about their journey in such a way that they're putting it behind them and they've. Learned something from it, and they're going to make the world a better place because of it does that make sense like they're like my family and I had this incredible hardship and I decided rather than feel bad about it for the rest of my life I've decided I'm going to change it for everybody else or I'm going to be different in some way and I think there's something profound about that individual journey or someone makes that pit. In their life to do something different, and that could be defying your parents that could be defying culture that could be defying a country that could be defying all sorts of things. But I think there's something remarkable about people who have that level of conviction and that level of spirit that propels them every single day to get up and do what they do sign this. Now I've completely founded the twenty minutes Russo this interview, but I've just loved. It much. Honestly I've been thinking a terrible name for Paul's when I think about this interview. Honestly, I've just so enjoyed this Tom. Thank. You enough for being. So Open thank you so much for joining me. Absolutely. Thank you back. I. Mean if you call until MC, loved having sign on the show, they're in such a more broad and diverse conversation than we normally have on the show. If you'd like to see more from sign, you count on twitter at scientists C. Y. A. N. T. I. S. T. likewise we great welcome you behind the scenes you can do so on Instagram at age stubbings nine, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty not. Bs I always loved see that. But before we leave each day, I'm sure you've heard about it. But my word, I love a product called Carter Carter simplifies how startups and investors manage equity chart tables and gap Varney way go to Carter dot com forward slash to`serve easy to get ten percent off more than eight hundred thousand employees and shareholders US Carter to manage hundreds of billions of dollars and Carter now. Offers Fund administration. So you can see real time data in the Carter Platform and with causes. Team Experience Fund accountants go to call two DOT com slash two zero visa to get ten percent off and if you've been listening to our show, you've probably heard of Bryce the first corporate card for startups with no personal guarantee or credit check up to twenty times high credit limits, instructional cards, plus reward three manageable. Apple Products and seven six points on tools I zoom in slack brags has helped thousands of companies scale foster to reach that potential they month extending this special offer to our listeners apply for the bryce called by November thirtieth with the Code Tweeden. TV. Say All spelled out to receive a five hundred dollars credit off to spending a thousand dollars even better. You can also apply for Bryce cash a bank account. With unlimited free wire and Ach transfers with no minimum balance required to create an account, you can apply account stay at Brax, dot com and lost by no means least if Carter and really changed the game in terms of fund and Finance amplitude is not for product. amplitude helps the top project growth themes, companies like pay pal instant Palette on my favorite Atlassian go properties that convert and retain customers with that product intelligence platform you and your team or really be able to better understand US behavior. Ship, great experiences false to retain more customers. They've become the gold standard in analytics teams asking what is happening in that digital products why uses conversing and what do we build next see for yourself how companies like twitter door dashing Cisco Built for growth using amplitude visit amplitude, dot com slash to`serve visa discounted scholarship plans are available for qualifying startups. You have to check them out as always. I. Sir Appreciate Your Support Calm weights bringing you another fantastic episode this coming Thursday with Owen McKay, but into chrome.

founder San Francisco partner twitter US spacex Democrats Cisco Travis San Francisco Carter Carter Bryce I Siam Buenavista Lee Jacobs Harry scientist Carson
20VC: Steve Blank on Why The Startup Ecosystem is Partially A Ponzi Scheme, 3 Things That Determine Startup Survival in a COVID World & Facebook: Platform vs Publisher and Where Does Their Responsibility Lie?

The Twenty Minute VC

38:02 min | 4 months ago

20VC: Steve Blank on Why The Startup Ecosystem is Partially A Ponzi Scheme, 3 Things That Determine Startup Survival in a COVID World & Facebook: Platform vs Publisher and Where Does Their Responsibility Lie?

"You are listening to the twenty minute vc with me Harry. Stabbings motorshow. We have in store feeds day. One of the leading luminaries of the valley and one I remember studying and reading all of that work so ferociously my more foundational years, and so I'm thrilled to welcome Steve Blank the man credited with being foundational to the creation of the lean startup movement, and having spent the last nine years at Stanford University as a professor in the last eight is a senior fellow at Columbia, University Steve is the author of the four steps to the epiphany, my personal favourite, and also the startup owner's manual. Manual, which is also fantastic and prior to joining the world of academics and Writing Steve's spent over twenty years in the world, Entrepreneurship House Paul solve all co founding eight SILICON VALLEY START UPS ranging from semi-conductors to video games to personal computers to soup impeaches, and if that wasn't enough, Steve is also on defense, business, board the United States Department of Defense, but before we move into the show stay. I'm sure you've heard about it, but my word. This product Love Carter Carter simplifies how stall ups and investors manage equity camp tables and get valuations. GO TO CARTER DOT COM forward slash two zero. Temps and off more than eight hundred thousand employees and Michelle is excuse Carter to manage hundreds of billions of dollars and accuracy and Carter. Now Offers Fonda Administration so you can see in real time data in the Carter Platform and were causes team of experienced found accountants again go to Carter Dot com slash two zero vcu get ten percent off, hence be amazing products. You've heard about with Carter that last month I. Had Jeff Seibert? Seibert in Wayne Channel Michelle from digits simply put that to the best founders that I've ever Matt, and they're creating the most intuitive financial software that you've ever seen or used. Automatically analyzing your company's spend visualizing for you as it happens, hone in on recent activity trends anomalies for any question that you have in just a few clicks, unlike every other financial software integrations is not weeks. It's just a few clicks I have to say. Say. The product is absolutely beautiful, which is something? I ever thought I'd say for financial software. You have to check it out and you can do so. DIGITS DOT COM. That's digits dot. com I'm fine. He did you know that will be one point? Four million job openings for developers in two thousand and twenty and loan. Well, that's why my friends at Tom and Tom as a remote teams engine for false during companies nineteen with. With global talent to deliver the product building powerhouse you'll business needs to grow. They provide services and infrastructure in a complete solution that allows businesses to build amd scale that remote engineering teams from the ground up without sacrificing spirit so quality from workspaces to community to on the ground support they take the guesswork out of remote so that you can really thrive, but really don't take my word for it. Just high-growth businesses like Gusto. Chime. And Hymns Trusting terminal with their remote teams, and you can find out more at Terminal Dot. Iro, that's enough for me, and now I'm very excited to welcome Steve Blank You have now arrived at your destination. Steve It is such a better view on the share. It'd been fine for long time and also had the most wonderful thing is. You might make to thank you so much for joining me stay. Thanks for having me I. Don't buy live up to the reputation. Indeed, but I wouldn't have to go for the middle contest. Today's maybe having read some of your incredible leg. How did you make your way into the wonderful other stone ups, and it comes from one of the most prominent figures in the valley today well I had a couple of decades career, a serial entrepreneur, I had spent four years in the Air Force during. During Gauguin now more before became, an entrepreneur came out to silicon valley in the early Nineteen Seventies did eight startups in twenty one years to semiconductor companies, supercomputers, Enterprise Software Video Games alter indulgence, and then ended up retiring in the midst of the Dot Com bubble and I think I have a t shirt that said luckiest man on Earth Number One, hundred, twenty five. But when I retired I started to think about the nature of innovation entrepreneurship have of this works this business. That was so good to and I had so much fun in I just Kinda. Did it never quite questioning how people gave money and what they told us to do it? Senator turned out when you're doing a startup or when you're doing a company. Your head is down mostly doing execution of your current business. There's very little time for great thoughts, or what's this about? But I finally had time to kind of ponder the nature of innovation. Innovation Entrepreneurship and in a nutshell what I realized is in the twentieth century. Investors basically told startups without ever using these words that startups are nothing more than smaller versions of large companies, so they were saying everything a large company, did you? Large Company writes a five year plan? We want you to forecast the future. They rate income statement down. She's cash flows for five years. We want you to do that even though the market might be zero. We want you to do that and by the way they hire sales marketing Biz Dev on day one. One you do that, too, and by the way use waterfall engineering to build your products and want to surprise. Most startups fail, and my insight was what most startups failed because we were just assuming everything we were writing down was a fact rather than we were just mostly F- guessing and that we were confusing ourselves. In early stage ventures and new ventures inside of large organizations that startups for the same, it turns out that large companies existing companies execute known business models, which is a fancy word for saying they know their customers know their competitor is. Is No pricing channel. They know all this stuff, but startups for doing something. Quite different startups were searching for business models and this distinction believe it or not, between search and execution never been made, and once you make that observation, you kinda realise well we had built a hundred years of tools and strategies, and all kinds of stuff for execution. We have very few tools for search and I took that upon myself to Kinda create in that the basis of what's now known as the lean startup. That's not so. What was your question Harry? We'll move into has tendency I. DO WANT to say about body incredible history as nope rate at and seeing the most with market cycles. Very precarious position stay new sent before and aimed might maples. Is it actually this is not a recession? This is a mass extinction event I wanted to dig in on this. What did you mean by this? Month's extinction event like this was a created mass extinction event I've looked through a couple of other financial crisis is in the twentieth century, and as I, said the DOT COM bubble, but this one we shut down the economy's the world to kind of save potentially millions of lives, and it looks like at the current rate. We still have lots of funds on the. The street, but in shutting down the economy, obviously some segments for impacted a lot more than others, obviously in travel or hospital, your restaurants or even major business segments of just Kinda gone dark, and so by mass extinction event I mean we literally have put segments of the economy, not only on pause, but potentially never to return with that means though is that. When the dinosaurs became extinct, those little mammals that scurried underfoot in fact realized that there was a niche that now opened up. They could become the dominant species, and they did, and the analogy means that there are new opportunities for start ups, or even existing companies to kind of take over, and they could do that by understanding the normal of how people shop and buy or that people got used. Used to using those types of services that might have taken a decade or more previously to kind of get adopted, so the world is no longer the same as what I meant by a mass extinction event. Can I dive in an Austin because I'm with you? In terms of really realizing just helps here since kid be, but then I look at public markets, advocate prices and I like adventure activity. What I'm not seeing here because the volume is badly down, pricing is badly down public markets high. She very high resilient. What am I not seeing? How do you think about this dislocation? Well? I think about ten to fifteen percent of the unemployed are asking the same question writing. There's never been a period where the economy and the stock market has been so out of sync I, think there's a good chunk of the stock market. That's basically assuming we're going to have some shape of v-shaped. v-shaped recovery and possibly people are putting their money their paychecks. There were normally putting on gambling or somewhere else into the stock market. I can't explain though smarter people probably can about the disconnect, but in obviously doesn't reflect daily lives of a good number of people who are both. Atta jobs and or eager to get back to work. Yeah, absolutely I agree with you, not disconnect the other kind of challenging thing I find is a lot of investors in. He's saying Oh. Yes, absolutely the. The downtown is here. Actually the best venture funds in the best investments made into downtown look at two thousand days I was asked myself. Yeah, but archie that was technology inflection point with the rise of smartphones in the cheap yeses that led to someone, says incredible companies Economic Conditions Audi think about not being technology inflection point buses macro economic conditions and we different today. How do you think about that? Yeah, I have a slightly different view I think entrepreneurs on their investors tend to operate. Operate the idea that out of every crisis is an opportunity, and this is certainly large crisis, and I think some of the opportunities of just if you're an entrepreneur, are just massive here, and while they're not tech opportunities as you point out their market opportunities, I'll give you an example. The nature of work will never be the same I mean. There are tens of millions of people and their CEO's who are now questioning. Let's see I commute to work for an hour or two stood. Stood in front of a computer to read mail and get on Zoom and then go back home and I commute for another hour to return home. Why am I doing that? I might need to be work a day a week to have meetings, but there's no rational reason anymore since I've just been working remotely for the last three months the show up every day into a place of business, so the shape of Commercial Office space is going to change now and by the way for those. Those who physically have to back for office? Work the amount of space. You need isn potentially a lot more, so we're GONNA need less based on one hand, and maybe more space on another, but I think number one the nature of remote work, and therefore the nature remote tools anybody who's used videoconferencing zoom teams or anything else is now discover that while you could see other people and talk to them via conferencing. It's exhausting and what we really understand is at least half of not. Not more of most meetings are based on nonverbal cues that you pick up from facial expressions from body language from other cues that conferencing APPs just currently don't have, but in fact, there's already a motion detection facial detection voice recognition about emotion pieces of software that exists separately. Some smart entrepreneur aren't going to start integrating those into business versions of video conferencing APPs to be able to read emotions of potential client. I'll give you one more if I'm in sales. There's no possible way or from. From the VPS's our CEO. If there's no possible way, I'm ever GONNA. Let a salesperson again to a first meeting in person what time in a complex sale you certainly want following meetings in person, but there's no way to even get in a car. Let on a plane because we've also seen that. While these video conferencing absolute lack a lot for first meeting, there is more than adequate, and that's just for business. You know if anybody is trying to home school their kids via remote. Parent in the world could tell you how badly lacking. Those are not integrated subjects. Don't talk to each other and don't match different grades. What happens when you have one computer for multiple children, multiple grades huge room for improvement telemedicine completely changed not on the ability to do this, but the ability to get reimbursed. That is paid from insurance companies and the government. Those rules change in policy. They'll be permanent on. On the other hand, it's potentially ripe for fraud, and maybe you can't charge as much if your doctor for the same type of treatment so I could go on and on, but none of these are technology enabled, but they're massive destruction enabled. Does that make sense? It totally makes sense in terms of the movement of kind of societal behaviors that can scenes season that create is I guess the question is that when? When you listen to the founders, you're innovating needs. Mockus Maybe the ones who are ready the I've heard you say their three things that determine stalled up survival stay. It's in the hands of leadership in your mind is three things, Steve Number one is speed in which you could assess what's going on. And what do you think is GonNa happen number two isn't actions. You take to get your company in shape. Shape to do that and number three again the speed in which you execute, those actions notice the word speeds. It occurred at least twice, if not in everything you do what I've seen is that the companies that are gonNA survive, and then thrive in the recovery are driven by CEO's who could assess rapidly come up with rapid strategies, and then take action and seize the opportunities or else you just kind of have. Have what's going on. Happen to you rather than you take as much control as you can, and by control I mean not only the things necessary to have your business survive making sure you have enough cash and runway that make it through, but there will be a morning after and there will be recovery, but it's going to be a new normal. What is your company? Look like that and if you happen to. To be one of those companies that happened to have more cash or more customers now. How do you take advantage of the fact that you do? There's a ton of people that you could never higher that you could hire before. They're kind of assets that you could buy that. You have gotten before lots of opportunities for those who actually were coming out of this in good shape. Can I ask Steve Mention there? There about the speed of decision-making speed of ask. You should in both of which rely on in my mind now finals of leadership will kind of single leaders will, as you said nine tastes, my question to you is why do you believe in the power benefits of benign cases, and is it purely about making the speed of decision-making execution foster by benign dictatorship I don't mean my where the highway when. When I mean is smarter. Leaders will realize that in this case you have to trade off ultimate collaboration versus speak because unlike and other times the environment is dictating the necessity to move fairly rapidly, but it doesn't mean you don't want to hear other input particularly, if you're trying to figure out what new business models or what new segments or where do we think the future is going? I certainly would be. Be Getting out of my office and first of all asking everybody in the company what they're saying and also getting out of the building and doing customer discovery and understanding. What's the macro environment like? When do we think the lockups and the sequestering scan hand in my industry or State or locality? And what do we think? The recovery is GonNa. Look like, but then I would suggest that whatever the past normal was. was of having a collaborative consensus of whatever for most businesses you really don't have that time now. Maybe in some you do, but in others I would just politely suggest we need to make decisions, and we need to move on, and that's just kind of my view of that. How one needs to operate doesn't mean that you sit in your office, locked up and just kinda rattling off memos or emails, but the. The time for a long time committee to have the committee schedule. The conference room is probably over for a while and I think that will be one of the defining differences between the winners and losers in this normal high. Absolutely agree with you there. In terms of the speed of is Houston, the speed of decision-making kind of need for that to beat narrowed temps if he makes I guess question not, is it? It may be the band horse. His wartime buses peacetime see. How do you think about the wartime buses peace time I guess from working with some of the best years in the business healthy. You seen how they operate in things about wartime buses, peacetime in terms of leadership styles. Yeah, number one news business people who use that analogy, not sure, too many of a in the fight a few lose in wartime. Wartime, it's measured in killed in action, and if you listen, business may be lose your corner office, so I'm not sure that's the right analogy, but even more so if you're in the army marines, you train for the fight all the time. You're running battlefield to as part of what you do, what peacetime CEO's have encountered and business schools in your current job. Never trained you for this type of crisis, so you're? You're kinda thrown into this environment where you have to act differently than you acted before and I think I articulated a couple of those differences you have to act with speed an urgency or else you will be overrun in this case by the circumstances of the market. You have to make decisions at speed and sometimes unpopular Ansett more importantly. You're not sitting there. Voting as kind of like the world moves on and. And as a matter of survival, you need to be able to personally assess what's going on around you by either getting firsthand data, my preferred method validating the data you're getting so for example in the beginning of the pandemic I heard from a bunch of CEO's. All my vp of sales forecast is just fine. They went really well. Have you personally gone through the pipeline list and call, but top ten prospects all. All know, but she assures me it's great, said get a phone and Dow, and of course we discovered for a quarter of of. They didn't even have their jobs anymore. They weren't even there the other quarter they were talking about. What do you mean by this quarter? Like our customers are like not even around anymore. Because sales, people were lying, but they tend to be the nature of their job incredibly optimistic. But the facts were changing underneath their feet, and the only point of this is that was part of this process IOS need to gather first-hand data or at least validate that the data that they have is valid and then be able to operate on that information and figure out what the new plan is. Cutting back communication in that data gathering with that team in terms of switching costs with different communication channel, which is leaders communicating with the invested. As how do you think about the best bound as you how they communicate well with their invested most specifically well, I think in normal times founders have figured out how to communicate up to their investors down to their employees but I. I will contend now. That is an optional. That's a skill. He didn't have it. You need to learn quickly, or if you do have it to figure out how to make a regular cadence on a regular tempo, and what I mean by that is you want to? As you're doing assessment of what's going on outside your building in the economy and a recovery. You WanNA share your. Your view of what you think is going to happen with your investors a because you want to inform them, but be while you're seeing one company that they might be seeing a portfolio of CEOS might be saying something different, so you want to get their feedback on your assessment, and then the second thing you want to share with them, maybe not in the same call or could. Could be in the same 'cause you wanNA share with them as well. Here's how we're going to kind of pivot. Our business model based on what we see going on, either we're going to lay people off, or we're going to hire people, or we're going to change our products and services are is we're going to be spending money or this were cutting back marketing activities it's. And you WANNA make sure they validate that. That's a good new going forward. Clint because that wasn't the plan. They thought you were doing ninety days ago and again Bayer properly. Hearing the same thing from other portfolio companies and smart VC's might say. Have you considered which is shorthand for? Hey, pay attention, you know this is what everybody else is on. The conversation could go. Go back and forth about why you think this is the best course of action for simultaneously you need to be communicating with not just your C. Suite, but the entire company I to kind of let them know your view of what's going on both now and in the future for the company, and if you need to do some actions, either layoffs are changes in. In the business you need to communicate why and the first one is just kind of a strategic communication of like. Hey, we're on it. We're not sitting here. Here's what we're doing. We're trying to understand what's going on and you know I would be soliciting input from as I said earlier from other people in the company. Is You know we're thinking about of either? Either survive or take advantage of or change, Your Business and be open some suggestions for short talk. If anybody has any ideas this week, happy that ear them or send them or come to my office etcetera, and then you continue to communicate about our doing what we're doing why we're doing it on a regular basis at least once a week and it shouldn't be. Be This glib everything's fine. If everything's not fine, it should be what you're doing and what you're seeing with, obviously hope for the future, but it shouldn't started out what the I seven paragraphs of some how wonderful it is, and then with the last one, and that's why we're laying off. Three quarters of the company is going to be reflective I'm totally with the. The mentioned layoffs. That's the one thing that's challenging is found. Absolutely we do need studios, but I'm not sure as to the severity of which we should do them, and so when you think about advising found today. How do you advise farmers on the magnitude to with which they should approach cutting nails, and what's too much sufficient? What sufficient is when this is over? Over you're still in business and more importantly, you're able to kind of rebound than grow at Skaff layoffs. Kinda depend on guess number one is what's your burn rate? And what's your runway? And how much cash do you have in the bank that you'll feel comfortable? Your Business could ride this out. Typically, people say you should have somewhere between eighteen months two years of. Of Cash if you were start up cash flow negative, and you had no revenue Kinda giggle about that well, that's nice on cash. I'm getting is the next round. The funding which may or may not be here, remember startup CEO. You're playing life sewer. Your investors trying to figure out their portfolio. At what companies do. They need to put their money into help survive. Survive if their revenue of fallen off, and so you need to make a set of assessments about is your burn rank. That is what you're spending. Each month doesn't need to be radically reduced because your customers have gone away, or your businesses changed radically etcetera, and sometimes some of the biggest expenses, people, and so you need to assess the. Why do I need to do? Do it. Can I apply for government, Assistance Payroll Protection, program or any other programs or the most vulnerable people, a lot of CEO's just Kinda look at the head count and throwing out the janitorial services who are the most vulnerable with people who can get jobs engineers who get jobs in another company overnight and you needs to figure out how much you need to. To cut the biggest mistake that I've seen time and again people make is not making the cuts, but basically cutting a bit at a time, and while that seems swell. We'll see how it's going. We'll cut five percent and then three weeks later. You realize now we gotta add another five percent. That's the worst possible way to do layoffs as that while it seems. Seems like the right thing at the time it destroys morale and productivity almost down to zero, because everybody's looking over their shoulder, knowing another cut is gonNA. Come and other layoff is gonNA. Come and they wonder if it's going to be them. And then literally you see people playing game of thrones, struggling for who survives. It's the wrong way to do it, we mind. Mind is if you realize that you might need to reduce your burn rate than just do it at once, and if I had an error in any way, err on the side of may be more than less because you could always rehire. Is that makes sense? A tiny may sense I I totally agree in terms of airing on the most side I guess my. My Question Been I've had a lot of is awesome. advise. Maybe it's a little bit of US UK Steve I'd love you. Also you mentioned PCP and a lot of people say hey, this is a venture by something large firms behind it. They should not be taking p and others say absolutely we should have more than within the criteria of course we should. Should why do you on the PGA and start ups is a suitable fit. And how would you advise on? This guy should reuptake in. We'll be taking PP well. The first thing you need to do is obviously figure out whether you. Taking any type of government assistance falls in abounds of. Is it legal and then if the answer is yes, at least one school? School of thought probably the one where I would come down has your job is to have your company survive, and it's taking that money will do that then for Gosh Sake. Take the money and have the other discussions later after you're a successful company, but you do have an obligation to keep your company in business and more importantly, the people work for you employees. Ideogram agree in terms of that could have ultimate responsibility I would love to move they steve into equate firearms Isaiah Short statement, and then you give me your immediate. Sacraments to sixty seconds pie one. How does that sound sure? They tell me I'm sure you've read many Brennan. But what's you favorite book my well. If you haven't read the text for Innovation Entrepreneurship, the innovators dilemma from Clayton Christianson was kind of book that just changed my head on how to view innovation, and though he wrote it for large companies was actually my playbook to reverse engineer for starts. Yeah, it's one of my favorites too I have to admit tell me the best board. Members sat on a board with or observed at bull meetings, and what made them say? Get this one. I'm going to vote for to in like every entrepreneur. You offer one. They'll take two or more. The Best One on a nonprofit board is when I was a public official in California. Aboard with someone named Mark on who is coastal commissioner with me and Marquette probably the best ethical center I've ever seen in anyone. Even though we were dealing with the lobbyists all the time, and have the governor screaming in our ears for to vote, Marcus pretty centered, and in fact was a pretty good role model for me there on the Commercial Board. It was Doug Leoni sequoia capital. It was great to watch Doug Channel His mentor in Sequoia Don Valentine so he. He was a force of nature cannot hear Advice Steve I've joined my bullets. I've lost. He is and I met young individual in the World Adventure Alison I you boards. What would you advise me? In terms of being the best full members I can be board members tend to, and I fell into. This trap is well think that what the CO needs is to hear their words of wisdom on every possible subject, and I've seen boards kind of circle the drain. Drain around trivial stuff when the building was on fire in. It is the classic. Are you rearranging the Titanic aboard role I think is designed hiring and firing. CEO is validating strategic direction for the company and providing some insights to the CEO the they might be missing, and if you're not doing that and obviously exercising fiduciary responsibility to make sure that stays in business, and the numbers look right at center, but if you're not operating on strategy I've seen words. Words to spend northern amount of time on details that just they should've maybe because they can add value. I mean very worrying about the furniture or the office building, or whatever the wrong conversation. Yeah, no idea Green Times already since synthesizing concentrating on the things that you're happy censure of both funding an entrepreneurial communities today. What would you change about the volley? In the TACKY ECOSYSTEM? Those startup ecosystem is actually and I. Mean Half facetiously a giant Ponzi scheme while you're. You're a founder thinking that the reason you're starting the companies to change the world or your industry or make people's lives better. That's not what your investors job is. A north of their investors job is kind of an impedance mismatch. Their job is to make the most money without any rules and what they're looking for out of view whether they personally like you or not is a liquidity event. That is how to make the most money, so there are literally no rules. Rules from the financial side about what you invest what you'll do it Cetera and I wish there was a little more oversight because there are essentially no rules for what we invest in who we hire how we hire. It's after I think it lacks the moral center Samten sheet. How would you like to see that implemented, but it'd be like books. WOULD IT BE GOVERNING BODY? What would you be on how you can place that kind of moral compasses speech well. Well you know in the United States the word. National Industrial Policy is like a third rail meaning. You touch it Gitai and the reason. Why is that? We live in deep pockets democracy where pockets get to affect legislation. There's no possible way that any of the people invested VC funds want to be told how and why their money should and where it should go, and if they did, they might put their money elsewhere, but if you think about it and I'll. I'll just take the non-social aspects on the twentieth. Century venture capitalists and the things they invested in happen to be aligned with the things that actually I think made our society better better computers, but more importantly, the that typically doesn't get pressing the same I in Life Sciences Therapeutics Medical Devices Diagnostics, etc, fact, it's amazing to think in the twentieth century. EVERY HARDWARE-SOFTWARE VC also did life sciences in an by the end of the century. They had become so specialized. It's. You could count on one hand the number VC's still today do both and so therefore, and the reason I just make this point is if you look at Hamad dollars are going into social media APPS and entertainment, versus how many dollars are going to things? That s would make the world better. You can immediately see. Oh, let's not use sticks, but maybe some carrots to kind of incentivize where the money goes to jumble. Is They've meet I? I'm an investors day in London the Night Shiva at at tackle shaver healthcare because I know the pains of Sally into these large Monolithic K. institutions so I guess. Do we need to change the infrastructure behind these hugely important actors? Actors to make them more amenable to innovation in startup sales, one would have said the auto business was completely monolithic and hadn't changed for one hundred years. One wouldn't have said the policeman the US the monopoly on rockets were monolithic in one guy, changed both or take a look at what happened with mobile phones and Music One guy there change both so i. don't think the industry. Even regulation needs to change. The entrepreneurs need to see and investors need to see. There's an opportunity and then on the social side. There's obviously been no reason to invest in I people of Color Women and then anything else. It was like we invest in who we want to invest and. We see the consequences of that in multiple countries I'm not suggesting we need government roles. Who just asked me? What would I like the change and what I'd like the change is we've gone, and we live in a completely lazy A. Type of investing environment with no social conscience, and no natural interests and I. think that's a mistake. After four decades I've absolutely convinced it's a mistake, and by the way there's no responsibility for what happens to tech, either no entrepreneurs, very few entrepreneurs who started a company thinking about? How do I do evil, but of all the things that are probably gonNA. GonNa Destroy a democracy happens to be facebook, and there's no consequence. The people on the boards billions of dollars on the completely irresponsible. CEO runs the company like any adult with any distance would tell you these been started with maybe great optimistic of the future and of turned the social media do eastern China for example, turned country, and still be A. A nightmare a wiegert for example or earn Tabet and we could see we're check is going to be heading, saying by that one, because this is the priority FIDUCIA responsibility to the shareholders, or is it the moral conscience and responsibility, Ted Improvement and kind of sustained, but as he saw him democracy, and may incredibly right wing capitalists, perspective of mine to. To even have multiple is the moral compass hostage come fast, but if one is optimizing fiduciary responsibility, is he not any teen best interests in the company well I mean that's been the line for the last twenty years. We have a responsibility or shale fiduciary responsibility to shareholders I know at waste in the United States. That's not written as her constitution fact. Isn't even called out in our constitution. Other things are life liberty pursuit of happiness, so we kind of use as a mantra, the rationalized the things we do install social justice, and in lots of countries that doesn't turn out well when the people take to the streets, meantime that people make money with quite well and hopefully doesn't happen on their watch without this balance of what happens. Happens when you have unfettered capitalism and now thinking about its consequence I think that's coming to roost. The numbers of countries in ways that potentially are not gonNA be pleasant. Yeah, I totally agree I'm always can send them. Rachi GonNa see this kind of civil revolution. Civil revolt is such income inequalities. Do you think it is quite not far on my being overly pessimistic overly concerned? Concerned or I think it goes in multiple ways since I said in China. It's not people in the streets. It's actually the government using the tools to take control of people's lives in a way that as I said, we're just only imagine science fiction in other places where people were freer, it ends up at CASS and other places. It ends up being manipulated by outside players. Players like the two thousand sixteen election in the United States, and as a tool for other stood so divisiveness and discord your on society, and when the only goal is I, don't really care because I'm making tensor hundreds of billions of dollars. That's when you go. This is out of control or if you're in the UK. The equivalent was what happened when all the Russian money. Into London all of a sudden Russia's our friend, and we'RE NOT GONNA, pay, attention or not, even Russians used social media interfere in the US elections sixteen. was all over brexit yet. That was because there's so much money on. One wants to talk about that. Everybody noon. What happened, but it seemed to be a too divisive subject to talk about my point is is that tech is now been used mostly misused in ways that the founders just couldn't imagine and I think that's kind of a story all the way. Way Back. To you know the first rock I wheel is that hey, look what I could do. Isn't this exciting? And that's the nature of entrepreneurs and visionaries, as you envision a better world, but there are always other people who can figure out how to turn that tool, and said something different, and we always seem to be a surprise. Then be go. And sometimes I is a little too late. Where you wish that the government or someone else would have stepped in a little earlier and this row, it goes down to the philosophy. What's the role of government is just protect life and safety or to get involved in, and so the consequences of these thing, it's a perpetual debate, though in this case for example social media, I think juries already in at all the optimism. We thought that social media would bring us together. You read some of that stuff now and you kind of have this kind of sad laugh going sure wish you would have worked out that way, but it's only be opposite. One final one. She believe in Adam Smith's theory on the invisible hand. It's one that I comes new things here I might see a big believer in and this my lack of appreciation with government intervention. Do you agree with the invisible hand and foot one? How do you feel about coming in Spanish? NOVA MARKET INVISIBLE HAND THEORY? How many more tally him? About invisible hand in a way that the market will correct itself and that Ashi undesired from government intervention it will find is. Yeah so I think that theory was probably wrong. Would I articulated, but certainly is laughable at by people who are manipulating markets, and not just the markets, but almost every segment society. That's why you have rules of law and rules of commerce and people who don't want. Rules of law and commerce are the ones that are the biggest contributors to making sure that the. The governments don't do that and their interest. You could absolutely understand why you know. Please don't get in my way of maximizing how much money I mean. That's always been the case, but it's been multiplied by a factor of one hundred thousand in the last couple of decades, invisible hand is actually today, the invisible and the people who have their hands and everybody. Everybody else's pockets and I don't want to sound like someone who doesn't appreciate the role of capitalism and role of innovation entrepreneurship I mean my role was to build things that were better faster while her fun to play or use your make people's lives better, but the people invested in those things didn't have the same goals and today financial community. I think it's. It's gotten a little out of control about a completely unfettered without any rules, the invisible hand is actually around our throats Steve. I want to thank you for being so flexible in terms of the schedule. This was one of my favorite interviews. In terms of just plastic Goldman station and say thank you so much for joining me. Say thanks for having me on. My Lebanon discussion. I love the way the quake fly that turned into kind of a fifteen minute long dialogue, local future of social on the future of democracy on the future of the Internet is just fantastic. Discussion, Stephen. If you'd like to see more from us, you can't on Instagram at age. stubbings, one, thousand, nine, hundred six. However, before we leave each day, I'm sure you've heard about it, but my word. This is a prototype love. Carter Carter simplifies how startups and investor manage equity. Track Cam tables and get valuations go to Carter dot com slash two zero to get temps off more than eight hundred thousand employees and sheldon excuse Carter to manage hundreds of billions of dollars and accuracy and Carter now offers fund administration, so you can see in real time data in the Carter Platform and it causes team of experienced found accountants again go to call to dot com slash two zero. To get 'em sent off and speaking of amazing, heard about with Carter that last month I had just cyber and Wayne Channel Michelle from digits simply put that to the best founders that I've ever met and that creating the most intuitive financial software, the ever seen used automatically analyzing you'll companies spend and visualizing for you as it happens in on recent activity trends anomalies for any question that you have. have in just a few clicks, and unlike every other financial software integrations is not weeks. It's just a few clicks I have say the product is absolutely beautiful, which is not something. I ever thought I'd say for financial software. You have to check it out and you can do so. It's DOT com. That's digits dot. com I'm finding. Did you know that will be one point four million job openings? Openings develop his in two thousand and twenty and loan well. That's why my friends at terminal come in Tom. As a remote teams engine for false growing companies continue with global talent to deliver the product building powerhouse you'll. Business needs to grow. They provide services an infrastructure incomplete solution that allows businesses to build amd scale, their remote engineering teams from the ground up without sacrificing spurs or call us from what? What spaces to community to on the ground support they take the guesswork out of remote so that you can really thrive, but really don't take my what. Fred just high-growth businesses like Gusto chime in and hymns, all trusting Tom no with remote teams, and you can find out more stay at Terminal Dot, Ir as always I appreciate your support and I call weights bringing a fantastic episode this coming Friday.

CEO Innovation Entrepreneurship Carter Carter Steve founder Steve It United States Wayne Channel Michelle Terminal Dot Harry Steve Blank amd Tom Carter Dot London fiduciary
20VC: Why Venture Fund Life Cycles Do Not Align To Companies Today, Actionable Strategies To Separate Good From Great When Assessing and Hiring Multiple Candidates & Why We Need More Adventure in Venture Capital with Blake Scholl, Founder & CEO @ Boom Sup

The Twenty Minute VC

31:52 min | 8 months ago

20VC: Why Venture Fund Life Cycles Do Not Align To Companies Today, Actionable Strategies To Separate Good From Great When Assessing and Hiring Multiple Candidates & Why We Need More Adventure in Venture Capital with Blake Scholl, Founder & CEO @ Boom Sup

"We are buying. This is the twenty minute. Vc with me. Harry stabbings not love your feedback. Ullman show and you can reach me directly on Instagram at age. Stabbings nine thousand nine hundred six with. Tv's really do love. See that have to the show today. And I've wanted to see this absolute for longtime particularly because this company is just so cool and I've had so many good things about their incredible found out and I'm delighted to welcome to the hot seats day and so with that thrilled to welcome Blake. Show found boom supersonic the world's fastest commercial airplane sparring to bring a supersonic passenger flight at an affordable price to date laser over one hundred sixty six million dollars in funding with boom from the license pool. Graham Sam Woman Ray Tomes the caffeinated capital homebrew and a dear friend of mine in Josh Buckley. Today McHugh featured on the show in the past as well prior to changing the world of commercial flights late sources career with five Inter Amazon as a manager of social networks. An automated advertising play them went on to found his own company. Kema labs acquired by groupon in two thousand twelve where he then spent two thirty years before founding boom. I do say she used to Josh. Buckley caffeinated for some amazing questions gestures. Today I really do so appreciate that shops but before we move into the show today. I'm sure you've heard about it. But my word. This is the product I love. Carter Carter simplifies how startups and investors manage equity track camp tables and get valuations. You call two DOT com forward slash two zero. Vce To get ten percent off. More than eight hundred thousand employees and shareholders US Carter to manage hundreds of billions of dollars in Equity Encarta now offers fund administration. So you can see real time data in the Carter Platform and work. Carter's team of experienced fund accountants simply go to Carter Dot com forward slash. Chooser get ten percent off and managing the Abbot of those employees actually patches to already have a job on one you can set the salary for which she would consider. Another job won't free and there are any stature. Quiet one you set your salary to you. Submit your linked profile resume. And that's it wanted people then reach out when there's an opportunity they salary or more that matches your skills and the experience and wanted to house a fifty thousand talented individuals on the platform and is used by the fastest growing and cooler startups in the US. So don't waste time and energy on. Recruitment process that takes months and yields a salary beneath your expectation. Get a raise on. Get WANTED DOT com. Once you get incredible talents. We wanted. They have to be properly equipped. And that's where I come. In braces the company which built a corporate card for startups. And who's the fastest company to reach Unicorn Stasis in History Bryce Founders Henry? Ken Badger Rebuilt Payments Business in Brazil but getting rejected for corporate caught in the states. So they brax with no personal liability up to twenty times higher card limits. And here's yours. Like seventy six points on Uber and lift four. I saw umbrellas travel and to access software star based in the US. See If you qualify for this call today at breakfast dot Com and get called fees waived for life by entering the Code Harry during sign up. But that's quite enough for me. I'm very excited. David Blake show found. Ncaa boom supersonic. You have now arrived at your destination. My what I've had so many great things from Rato from Josh. Partly it is such a pleasure to have you on the show. Stacey thank you so much joining me. Stay Blake thing traffic me Harry excited to. I would love to kick off with a little news to me. How did he make you into the world of startups no-fence Blake? But it's very rare. I haven't company boom on the shows. How did you come to the idea of founding been changing the way we think about traveling flights startups have been might lead for a long time? I started my first company and my parents basement when I was about fifteen. That was a tiny Internet service provider. So I've wanted to start things. Virtually my entire adult life and my first company Chemo. Labs was mobile ECOMMERCE company that was acquired by groupon and I looked back at that experience and my biggest learnings was that startups were hard. Even things that are theoretically in your wheelhouse are good to have challenging moments and what to be successful you have to think about your personal motivation and pick emission that you will never ever give up on no matter how hard it is so aviation has been something. That's been on my blood for a long time. I've been flying for fun since I was in college. Although I had a first career doing internet things didn't really think about bringing aviation my career by mid twenty s and in two thousand seven. I put a Google alert on supersonic jet. Because I wanted to be first to know when I go buy a ticket Gawk too but for the better part of a decade it was crickets. There's just no credible. Effort to build a supersonic aircraft that. I could see myself for friends and family flying on benefiting from so after having left group on what to work on something more impactful than Internet coupons and I wanted to work on something that would keep me very motivated so I organized all of my ideas by how happy I would personally be if it worked and neglected everything else and I figured I would work down that list and work on the most exciting thing that was not impossible and as luck. Has it still work in a number one on that list? I mean I love happiness to the idea to sell to us. You mentioned groupon spend time at Amazon kind of formative to how you think or anything credible companies. How do you think that you would tell him that? Impacted how about operating with booms day. It was incredibly valuable to spend time at both companies because they are extensively have some similarities but have some really deep cultural differences and one of the best ways to learn just experienced contrast Amazon as we all know. Now is an insanely well run company. You work there especially if it's your first job out of school like it was for me. It's like the sky is blue. You can't actually see the background. You just everything in the kosher for granted but having seen the contrast one of the things that pops most is the importance of building. Long range thinking into your culture and building a place where you optimize for the long term not for the next quarter and it was very interesting to watch how the two different companies respond when they were short-term tradeoff pressures for example if there is a supplier that was offering short-term discounts because they were having a soft quarter in order to get Amazon to stock up on a product that Amazon would take that deal if the long term cash flow forecast was positive and so they would allow earnings to be lumpy in the short term in order to have long-term good cashflows angry on honestly. It was very much the opposite. If a quarter was coming off the response was often to hasten more email it will pump up the short term. But it's a little bit like eating your stock seed because it birds up your core customer base. I had someone say to me the other day Harry. The big lesson I have from ten years in venture is the best ought founders. Have the ability to really operate in inspire at five thousand foot level but also go down into the granular really into the nitty gritty of Castro's Migration. Whatever that granny will might be. Would you agree in terms of the ability to transition between super high and super-low in terms of being the best rbis? That's totally correct to be inspiring founder. Ceo Yet to be able to zoom out. And you'll really to the sixty thousand foot level at boom and see around. Corners Sierra big obstacles inspire people to continue to pursue the longest range vision and the most principled way regardless of the short-term obstacles in front of you but you also have to zoom in and enforce high standards and have great attention to detail and that means everything from being willing to zoom in and edit marketing. Copy yourself to auditing. What the layout of the airplane will be to dig into the details of what the QA processes on the airplane and make sure that every decision is appropriately geared to the right safety risk ballots. I totally agree in terms of the ability to move between what to ask about the topic of fundraising because it is such a unique company. Which means I'm sure there's a unique set of experiences in terms of the fundraiser itself. How was the fundraising experience for you? Given your essentially building supersonic jets. This is not an enterprise company. And can you share some memorable moments? Ataman insisted outs he fundraise. It's been incredibly challenging yet. I'm super excited about the success. We've had we've raised now a bit over one hundred fifty million dollars from some of the best investors in Silicon Valley and really around the world but it has been an arduous process. The very first seed round. I've started by calling the people who invested in my first company and made money in that include people who've said Blake will invest in anything you ever do. And some of them wrote checks with some of them are like well. We said we'd invested anything you'd ever do but we didn't think you'd do something this crazy so we found the people who are willing to do it. We found the people who are excited about the vision. You would say things like we think you're probably crazy but I'd really love this to work. So here's twenty five K. And that was the start of it and over a series of rounds you get better at telling the story and you get better reaching the people who are very long term minded and that in particular has been one of the most interesting challenges as it. Boom is a company that will probably be on the order of ten to fifteen years from founding to carried passengers volume and that time horizon even though the IRR's the multiples will be great. Makes it impedance mismatch for most venture capital funds in the early stages and so a lot of our capital as the company was prickly on the young side has come from ultra high net worth individuals many cases well-known VC's who are investing outside of their funds or they don't have those timing constraints and then as the company's matured we've been able to bring it in the strategic a bit more institutional capital can ask the motive. Yvonne is centered around. Vc's being able to see round the corner see that change management is going to be a real problem this enterprise company in that we should really focus on investing in customer success from six to nine months ahead given this is such a different proposition. It question from Josh boxy. What did you find most helpful about your ambassadors? And why do you think these gas could do better and improve it so? Boom substantively is very different from US. Offers a service company or your typical. Silicon Valley Startup but company building is really the same regardless of what you're doing you have to build an executive team to build a culture and those things pattern match very well across sectors and so being able to talk with investors about how you build a culture how you structure and executive team how you prioritize short term versus long term how to fundraise all those kinds of things are backers have been insanely helpful and I feel really honored like quality that people who are watching boom who've invested in and we'll send me an email when they think we're making a mistake and give advice practically is just phenomenal in terms of what they could improve. Help me out. I move by day from my sins. Blake won't could we better as an asset cost in terms of providing service? And you to you. The biggest thing that stands out is being able to structure funds so that you can make longer time horizon. Investments that's the biggest reason that fundraising for boom had been challenging. Is that timeline to exit as long. Even if the multiples are going to be great and that causes some funds set on the sidelines so lengthening funds and focusing on multiples and Iras instead of just time line to exit would be super helpful and I think it could be more venture venture capital. The industry as a whole had her matches very strongly on exactly what successes have existed previously so for example for. Today it's really easy to raise money for a rocket company because SPACEX is a success. But that doesn't strongly translate over into airspace as much as you would hope it would. I'd love to see longer. Time Horizon Investments. I'd love to see more venture more. Willingness to try new concepts cannot incomes like the meetings that you had to do with the money and people sometimes say no for whatever reason which individuals didn't invest. But did you really like an of Maya and I guess. What did you like so much about those interactions? So I can think of many amazing conversations is very typical that we would make to the full partnership stage and the fun would end up passing. Although individual investors in that group would come in. Personally I think one full partnership we had where the conversation was super amazing incredibly engaged group. And then you get the call back after the meeting and said well this fund. We score every deal one to ten before. We have a debrief discussion. And this really strange thing happened. Which only ones and tens and nothing in the middle and the partnership can't figure out what to do with this deal but amongst ten group or a couple of well-known investors and. They wanted the deal personally. So you should do that. I mean I think that you actually be the best deals contrary. An intensive ones meaning. You should write me a cheque right now. But I love that in terms of the feedback. I do want to dive a little bit more into the leadership so to speak of the team and for year I guess fuss when we think about building the team itself. We have to acquire the incredible talent. You mentioned culture that in helping building culture unhealthy sees do that deliberate choices. Did you make to attract the best and brightest talent play so culture? You do have to be very deliberate about and culture as bespoke. The culture at apple is good at solving kinds of problems is very different from the culture at facebook in the culture at Google. And so when you're building a culture you want to think about. What are the attributes of a culture that are gonNA be necessary for succeeding at your goals and for boom? We're working on something. That is incredibly long time horizon that requires a great degree of perseverance through the inevitable ups and downs and so we chose to optimize for mission passion as the fundamental tenet of our culture. And so we look for people who were as excited about supersonic flight as I am for incredibly committed to the mission of making the World War connected making earth smaller place and that's a filter even on great technical talent. If you're not excited enough we don't hire you because it's too hard and if you're saying you're going to give up somewhere along the way so that was first and foremost filter and second. We systematically searched the world for the best and the brightest especially in the early days. I had no connection is all in aerospace. My Best Intro was a guy who had worked for me at groupon had played hockey in college with someone who worked at SPACEX and so that was my first meeting and I showed up to that meeting an airplane. I flowed myself which is my only source of credit in the industry at the time I asked him was if you wave magic wand and get anyone on the planet to come being trenches with you to help you build this who would you want and he gave me five names and I met those five people and ask them the same question and if you do that recur simply systematically searching for the best people on the planet pretty quickly you could actually talking to them and so that initial five people two of them now work at boom and people. We met through them. Also part of the early team so you can search the world for the bashing the brightest repressively. And when you're building supersonic jets the first question people ask you are you crazy and if you can convince them the answer is no the second question is how can I help. So if you're working on something big uninspiring. You have the fundamental strength. You need to attract really great talent. Can I be CPA OWNER SNIPING? And it's one thing that I struggle with today is when VC's health in terms of hard winning talent. I find it fundamentally challenging nor being an engineer myself you mentioned your lack of experience in the main specific of space supersonic trample. How you analyse effectively the quality of roles. Well maybe you don't have the domain expertise and I guess what advice would you give me so I can tell you a story of how we hired the first couple people is? We had exactly that problem. I had spent a year self. Educating reading textbooks taking airplane design classes sign you enough to be dangerous but didn't know everything myself and so we've gotten to the point in early two thousand fifteen where. We had half a dozen candidates for the first couple of jobs in the company. And what I did is they flew them all out to the bay area where I was living at the time and I convinced. A FRIEND SEQUOIA CAPITAL TO LOAN as a conference room for a couple of days and we did a jam session with all of the candidates together in the room at the same time and you might not know all of the questions to ask yourself and you might not know all of the answers a group of smart people talking about your problem space together in a room. You can quickly tell who really knows what they're talking about. And also who has the personality and ability to lead in a room that you really wanna go get the trenches with and so out of that half a dozen people? We hired two and a third as consultant to the company now and just washing smart people interact with each other outside of your own domain. You can learn a ton so that's story number one has just on that so I'm interested to drive the conversation down the discuss if threads would you let them have their own discussion really kind of observed from the outside some of both so? I drove the agenda so day. One was a jam session on everything technical. What would you need technically to make this work? And what was the current state of the art technology to be created what already existed and so the structure and the discussion on? That would bring out a lot of interesting things and then day to was about company building. We ask questions that should you start with a prototype or she go straight into production. What do you look for? In a great engineer. How is that going to be different in aerospace versus the software team? And so if you provide the right through structure and then let people riff on this questions. You're covering a lot of ground systematically but also allowing people to take the conversation in places where you might not have thought of taking it. No I totally agree. Sorry the second. What was the second story? Second Stories about interviewing and for the first fifty or so hires. My favorite interview question was teach me something and so we were optimizing for people who not only knew. Deep technical things that mattered aerospace but were really great communicators and that form the foundation of teaching culture and a learning culture. It also set me up for success because I would bring in people who were deep technical experts. We wanted to hire the ones who are not just good at doing what they do at able to explain it to the team around them and teach people like myself and so along the way I learned a ton and if you teach me something you didn't get hired at boom. I love that in terms of being able to teach him really express what you know. I guess my question to you. Is We kind of the mission in the central mission? We mentioned the talent both especially kind of talent tougher. The Nevada USA leader a big thing that I think now is GonNa Psychology of leadership. How do you manage the psychology of being see? And I. Guess? How do you deal with the Shit? Hit THE FAN. Romans that are inevitable but also more inevitable when it's a much longer timeframe and tubs the opportunity. I don't think there's a silver bullet answer to that first and foremost. Is You optimize for your own motivation. And I spoke about that earlier. If you've picked something that really really matters to you personally. Then you're going to keep going matter. How hard it gets and when you have a longer time horizon. What are the things that actually helps is? You can anticipate that certain problems are gonNA come up at some point. Be PREPARED FOR THEM AGAIN. If you know it's going to be fifteen years where he and founding an IPO a chance that there's a macroeconomic event sometime during the lifetime of the company is basically one hundred percent and so you prepare for it. You make sure you always have more than a year of cash in the bank. And you have contingency plans for. What would you do if the shit hit the fan? And that's something I've been preaching to the team for years now and it feels very fortunate that we did that now with Corona virus hidden that. We're able to say great. We'll good thing we plan for something happening at some point and we're ready to weather. The storm totally not absolutely agree to have the question of is it bad as entering industry where you have this incredible may nights petits. And you've seen it before or is it bad as come afresh and have that kind of useful naive not to address things in a fundamentally innovative in different way. How do you advise Firearm Business? Times of especially your experienced kind of coming into without maybe. The demands the sixty that in terms of whether it's something they novus is maybe I think passion trump's expertise every time and if you're smart and you're good learning you're going to be able to pick up a new domain relatively easily. I think people generally underestimate their ability to learn. And if you've got that excitement you're able to push through it and there are benefits of being an outsider. His domains often are littered with conventional wisdom. That's false a supersonic flight was like this there six years ago when we were starting boom. The conventional wisdom was no one would pay enough to be able to fly supersonic. That would have to be really expensive at the sonic boom was an insurmountable barrier that would take decades are indeed a solve. It turns out that all of that is false. Doesn't stand up. Even a brief amount a systematic quantitative analysis and outsider who doesn't come bird in with that preconceived conventional wisdom as a huge advantage and be able to tackle problems that other people are ignoring. We have a saying that boom. Which is you have to be naive enough to start and wise enough to finish. So I think there's a huge benefit and going into something that's not in your domain expertise within rapidly being able to burn down your night say understanding what assumptions you might be bringing that are false and being able to get oriented rapidly in the new demand cannot see us. How do you think about giving people enough accountability? Freedoms really pursue those big things that they want to achieve busa crazy and culture where it's okay to fail fearful of failing with that. They've chose well. We have something to Bouma. Call the blade in the nut and this started from the earliest days of the company was about a five person company and I had bought an engine blade out of concord at an online auction just for fun and I brought into the company and it sort of became a trophy. When you did something really great. We went above and beyond. You could have the Blade. We put it on your desk until someone else. Did something amazing that would move and along the way somebody else brought in a nut on a row and they're like if the blade is for when you do something really awesome the nut for when you really screw up and I thought oh no. This is horrible. The last thing I wanted to do is build a culture where people are shamed for their failures. We want to build a culture where everyone can own the stakes. They'd evidently make your rewarded for surfacing problems quickly and then getting together with your teammates to overcome the setbacks and this amazing thing happened while I was trying to figure how to get rid of the not what happened was people started taking the nut when they own mistakes and so it became. You can be given the blade and you could take the nut and so we have this culture here where you are rewarded for doing amazing above and beyond things but you're also rewarded for owning your mistakes and learning from them. And so now as the company has scaled. The nut has come to me when something goes wrong. We understand the root cause talked our teammates about it. We collaborate recover. I love that in terms of the blade in the not in. That's fascinating in terms of the owning of the mistakes that would ask is mentioned kind of the learnings from those mistakes too many very masses before the show and they said about your learnings is a leader and how every thousand in terms of scaling yourself. I'd love Howdy. You See. And how have you seen? You'll south changing evolve. As leader of the Lost Years Blake. It's been a tremendous journey building startup by the end of it. You're not the same person you were when you started. I think it's tough and me a lot. I've learned how to be a better operator how to operate the right altitude how to be able to helicopter up to the biggest level but also get down the details. How do trust but verify at how to get really good at the things that are critical for success in this business? I share a little bit of a story when I started the company. I couldn't recruit at all I couldn't sell. I probably couldn't sell your dollar bill for fifty cents about. What would be the attributes of success for something like this to succeed? We call reverse historical reasoning. Like imagine yourself in the future reading the history textbooks about how the world made. The leap a supersonic flight. And how this story is GonNa go. Well that's not GONNA be one hundred years of doing nothing. Boeing finally did it. It's probably going to be someone from outside the industry. And what would that lead her? And what would that team have to look like well? They have to have an incredibly long range perspective. That had been credibly perseverance. They have to have a really high talent bar bill Dream Team at to be incredibly persuasive. Because they'll have to go commits airlines and suppliers investors to all something. That's very counterintuitive to go do and so I said okay I gotta get really good at recruiting I gotta get really good at fundraising. I gotta get really good at sales and again it goes back to this idea of mission. Passion trumping everything else and you have to decide you care more about the success of the company and you do about your own insecurities about you can and can't do so. Then you go off and run headlong into the things that you're afraid of doing you pursue them anyway and then you collect great mentors and advisors along the way who will tell you when you're screwing up and help you figure out how to better. Kasey a question so very personal but like I have many insecurities especially being younger in the industry. What are your insecurities today because everything can always look glossy and shiny from the outside? What are your insecurities today what you find challenging. One of the biggest challenges has been building an executive team in an industry that mostly doesn't have startups in a city. That mostly doesn't have startups. I think that's been the biggest challenge is. How do you find big leaders? Who are cultural fits in a startup? But also have the deep expertise to be able to lead big teams in aerospace. And we've made honestly we've made a lot of false starts on that and it's been one of my biggest struggles that said as time of all as the company progresses and now you can walk into our hanger and literally see the first airplane visibly an assembly our ability to access. Big Talent has gotten better on our ability to go screen. Talent for culture is just. We've got wiser on over time. That's been a big challenge for me. Personally I'm really interesting because it's something that I struggle with incomes advising companies. How do you think about the balance between really maintaining someone and giving them the support? Education and infrastructure. To improve buses. Went to cut the rope in admitted it was the wrong track. I think you have to look at people slope of growth. Like how quickly are they growing? How self aware are they about their challenges and the people who scale tend to be very humble that ended to admit when they don't know how to do something it tend to readily seek advice that tend to be great listeners. Those folks grow really well the pattern that I found doesn't scale really well is when there's a high degree of arrogance of self confidence thinking you already know the answer. Those people tend to get blindsided and are not able to scale when they encounter new things. Now I do want to move into my favorite elements any APPS it which as the quickfire rounds. Ics Short statement. And then you hit me with your immediate tools. Are you ready to rock and roll? Let's do it okay. Because I'm sure you've read books. I'm struggling on this. One say helped me wohlsen favorite book. And why should I be reading it? My favorite of all time has atlas shrugged. Because it's one of the few books in which businessmen innovators the heroes and. It's got some amazing characters and stories of how they persevered to create new things despite all obstacles. We'll superpower and weakness in company building thirty seconds on each might superpower is between a strong future s being able to see around corners and paint a picture of how better the world is going to be. We have supersonic flight. I'm really good at telling that story inspiring people to want to go make it real the flip side of that as a weakness. Is I run at problems that most people consider impossible. And sometimes that can make you unwise going in tackling something that is actually impossible. So it's a challenge to know when you ask people to push go figure out something they're going to succeed at versus when you're actually asking for a bridge too far pursuing something. That won't actually work. What would you change about in the valley intact today? You have this unique perspective being in it but also not being usual for it. What would you mind sites change? I would love more founders. To think about what they would do that. No one else would do. So in organizing principle of my work is. I only want to tackle problems. That wouldn't get tackled. I personally didn't tackle them. And this is the opposite of a lot of that sort of a herd mentality trend focused mentality that you see in the valley where Echo crypto is big or videoconferences. Going to be big and people like flood into the space and I think about things like self driving cars. It's going to happen. Lots of great people are working on it. Would it be fun to go work on? Of course it's cool important problem but regardless of whether I go into it great progress is GonNa Happen there and so I want to look for the problems that are getting ignored. The things that might not get tackled if it weren't for one person's insight and decided to go pursue a problem and I would encourage more people to think that way. What can they do that? No one else can do. What problem do they see others are ignoring? I think there's a lot out. There are a lot of problems that are sort of sitting in plain sight that have been largely ignored by the world but people who see them in a passionate about them can go do something who was the first check into boom. And how did it come about it? Was John Collison. That co-founder of stripe and this was in the relatively early days of strike before it was a massive success that it was. Today John was a pilot I met him through a friend and we went out to dinner or talking about what we're doing and why. I thought it would work and John Awesome. He said well all right. You a check now if you could promise me that. I'm the first one and we said of course. Yes let's do it and he's been amazing to have involved. He is a brilliant operator. Comes out to from time to time and kind of helps. Deep dive on things and coaches me amazing involved. Who's the biggest mental tea and what's been the takeaway from that relationship? I'd say Jeff Holden so jeff hired me at Amazon coming up on twenty years ago now. Straight out of school. When he was running supply chain at Amazon and I worked for him there I worked for him at his start up again at groupon and now he's on the board at boom and Jeff taught me how to think big. He taught me how to close how to sell how to persuade. And also how to be an amazing operator how to dig into root cause to challenge teams. Did you better and I feel like I'm still learning a ton from him the halt. Israel's Hi four today in your mind why do you think that is the hardest thing to hire for her? Is the leadership roles that require aerospace background and that is because the background is crucial for us to have. If you're going to go from build overture which is probably one of the most complicated safety critical things ever built by humanity. You need to have people who have deep experience in building certifying testing a large aircraft. However you also need people who can operate in smaller. Environments should be culture feted a startup and that is a very very small set of people on the planet. And you're the good news when we find the ones that fit were able to get them but it's just not a big population today. One of my biggest dreams for boom over the long term is we build what we call the talent distillery where we can bring in young spirits and help them mature and grow into future leaders and I would love to see that challenge getting solved in the Industry. If you can go create a lot of talent that understands starts to operate in strategy but also as deep background in airplanes and therefore can go create a bunch of companies speaking about a feature that probably the most important and final one. What am Nice five years? Hold for you. Can you paint that product roadmap? Yeah so today. We're building our first aircraft the XP one which will look like a fighter jet but fly like an airliner. And that is history's first. Independently developed supersonic jet. So that's literally coming together. As we speak the The wings refinished a couple of weeks ago. The fuselage came together earlier this week. Wings and fuselage together next month. So it's quite literally coming together in our hanger so that airplane finish this summer. They'll be flying. String speed records next year and from that point. We shift our attention from that prototype. Production aircraft overture and so that airplane will carry seventy five passengers business. Class Fares on flights are half as long as they are today so think New York to London and three hours instead of seven fast. You can go across the pond get business done and be home to kids into bed. So that's going to be our major focus over the next five years and it's a continual question of okay. How do we build this to be safe? Sustainable environmentally friendly affordable to as many people as possible. And that's what we think about every day is. How do we bring high speed travel to as many people as possible? Blake Advice. I had so many great things for many many different people. This has been so much fun and I cannot wait to see the future ahead. Say thank you so much for joining me. Thank you really enjoyed the conversation. I just love that discussion with Blake in such exciting times ahead with boom. And if you'd like to see more from Blake than you can find them on twitter and be show likewise it'd be great to welcome you behind the scenes here. You can do instagram at age. Stubbings nine thousand nine hundred eighty six with ABC's have it before we leave each day. I'm sure you've heard about it. But my word this product. I Love Carter. Carter simplifies how startups and investors manage equity track camp tables and get valuations. Does you dot com forward slash two zero to get ten percent off more than eight hundred thousand employees shoulders. Us Carter to manage hundreds of billions of dollars in equity in court now offers fund administration. So you can see real time. Data in the Carter Platform can work with Carter's team of experienced fund accountants simply Jakarta Dot Com forward slash. To`serve get ten percent off managing the bidding those employees actually packages to. You already have a job on wanted. He can said the salary for which you would consider another job. Wanted US free and there are any steps required one. You set your salary to submit Arlington Profile resume. And that's it won't reach out when there is an opportunity they salary or more that matches your skills and experience and wanted to already. Housing fifty thousand talented individuals on the platform is used by the fastest growing and cooler startups in the US. So don't waste time and energy on a recruitment process that takes months and yields salary beneath your expectation. Get a raise on get wanted dot com and once you get incredible talents we wanted. They have to be properly equipped. Now's where Brat is coming. Bryce is the company which built the corporate card for startups. And WHO's the fosters company to reach Unicorn Stasis in History Bryce Founders Henry? Ken Battery built a payments business in Brazil but kept getting rejected for corporate card in the space so they built brax with no personal liability up to twenty times higher card limits. And here's yours. Seven ask points on and lift four. Sambra's brass travel and two excellent Saas software. Your visa installed up based in the US. See if you qualify for Bryce call today at breaks dot Com and get called fees way for life by entering the Code Harry during sign up as always I appreciate. It was calm weights. Bring you another set of fantastic episodes next week.

boom Blake Advice US groupon Carter Carter founder Amazon Bryce Founders Henry Harry Google SPACEX Josh Josh Buckley Brazil executive engineer David Blake
What You'll Hear

Down The Hill: The Delphi Murders

06:14 min | 11 months ago

What You'll Hear

"What's the one thing you've never told anyone people just like you tell all in a podcast called the secret room if you're a true story fan and you cannot not get enough of people's most intimate dreams desires in shame. You will love the secret. Room like meals deathbed confession that our daughter's absent father there is a movie star. I wish I could tell someone who the father is. While I'm still on earth. Were Jen secret. Love affair with a man on death. Row It's tearing my world upside down and something thing. He just has devastated me or the way that Joey falls in love with inanimate objects I know people who were in relationships with construction equipment. People all around you carry the most amazing secrets. You're invited to the secret room for a front row seat to spectacular stories. That will touch you jar you now. I'm Ben Ham your host search for the secret room. A podcast about the stories. No one ever tells Drew Aydin McDonald and we are the hosts of the a new podcast from H. L. N.. Down the hill. The Delphi murderers and barb. I think it's important for us to kind of tell the folks that are going to be listening to this podcast. The real goal here here is to tell the story of this horrible horrible thing that happened in Delphi and do it through the voices and the people of the town of the community and really give a sense of what it was like to live through such a horrible horrible crime. And you're going to hear from friends and family members of both Abigail Williams and Liberty German. who were murdered in two thousand seventeen and it's still unsolved and we got an opportunity to go to? Delphi a couple of times and talk to the people who as you said lived this experience and some of them have never given interviews before some of them. This is the very first time they've ever spoken publicly about what happened to Abbey and Libby and one of the things that we did was we got to walk parts of the crime scene with some of the family only and investigators and in this clip. You're going to hear superintendent. Doug Carter of the Indiana state police. He is the state's top law enforcement official. And here's a little bit of what he said. During one of those trips we're approaching the bridge. Now what do do you see as you look at it him. I seem standing right out. There can seem standing right out there. Feel the same way every time I come here. Gosh Dang it looked back this way. You'll see them walking. Doing the girls. Do it was pretty. That was a really powerful visit to walk the same path that abby and libby walked with an investigator and to hear what he thinks of the area very powerful stuff. It's hard to listen to superintendent. Carter Carter in any of his conversations about this case and these girls and not be powerful. It is incredibly clear from the jump that this case is is something that has stuck with him from the moment he got to Delphi in two thousand seventeen. He says it's the one that will never leave him. That when he closes his is is at the end of the day. This is the one he's thinking about. And it should also be noted over the course of this podcast for not GonNa try to solve this crime that is for the authorities to to do. But we're going to do is try to make some sense of it because there's a lot of layers here. There's a lot of speculation. There's a lot of theories and so we're going to try to make some sense of what happened in this town. And you mentioned some of the conversations we had you know I remember one of the ones that jumps out to to me is a conversation. We had with Carrie Tim. That's that's libs mother and she had. We sat with her for two plus hours and had a very long chat with her her and she said a lot of really really profound things but one of the things that jumped out at me when she talked about the first time she went to the Monin High Bridge after her daughter's murder. Here's what she said about that. And I walked past and I walked to the bridge and I kind of knelt down like right on the edge. The bridge is still on the grind. But there is someone had drawn a rainbow or something on the bridge and it said something about the girls and I was just kind of I really was I was I was a mess. It stopped raining kind of like the sun came just a little bit through the cloud I can do. I wanted to go across that bridge. I took three steps and I just felt sick. I couldn't do it so you can hear the emotion in her voice and she is just one of many like that over the course of this. This podcast that Joe here and you know we're asking these folks to talk about some of the some of the worst experiences of their life but it really is important to do that in order to get an idea and a better understanding inning of the story and how these people experienced it. So starting February fifth you'll be able to hear your down the hill the Delphi. Murders this H. Allen's first original podcast. You'll hear it in this space on this feed. Wherever you get your podcasts. You can also go to down the hill. PODCAST DOT COM. Not only to hear the podcast but also to see maps and photos and a lot of bonus material AH.

Delphi superintendent Libby investigator Monin High Bridge Carter Carter Abigail Williams Jen Drew Aydin McDonald Doug Carter Ben Ham Joey Indiana Joe Carrie Tim H. Allen H. L. N Abbey murder
Black Friday

Dateline NBC

43:41 min | 1 year ago

Black Friday

"Ashley was a wild and Funny Texan who everyone seemed to love caring loving compassionate. So so why did she have this strange premonition as he always felt like she was GonNa die in the call came on Black Friday. She said Ashley's apartments on fire. When win the corner pulled up Muhart broke and this fire was no accident that had conducted surveillance at his apartment? They're going back to the place. Were Ashley worked as they were going after tens of thousands of dollars was money. The only motive or was there something else. There are a lot of rumors going around. That ended up. Being true. Couldn't believe that somebody could do that to her. Just pure evil. I'm Lester Holt and this is dateline. Here's Keith Morrison and with Black Friday a hot August night in Texas two thousand fourteen. The alone figure knew where to go new where the store kept. The cash grabbed eighteen thousand dollars and was gone but it was only money. No one got hurt not that time anyway. The story begins here in Fort Worth Texas which turned out to be the perfect growing up place for a rough and tumble free. Spirit named Ashley Harris. I was around ten when she was born and so perfect age to pretend she was my baby. Melissa Hill is actually as eldest sister. She marched to abate of a different drum. She would wear just things that did not match her hair was just didn't seem combed princess. I know there were three three girls in the family. Ashley was the baby. Their mom Monica remembers. How actually loved sports and Music and art and Bingo? nope are mom and daughter bonding kind. And she'd just get on getting excited by the time she got to high school. Ashley had lots of friends even the boyfriend and she was devoted to her two dads her father. Tommy and her stepfather chuck both retired police officers. Didn't you talk at one one point about getting into actually your line of work. She was interested in policing I think that she took naked understand but after after high school. She ended up working for a short time at blockbuster video. And that's where she met a customer named Laura Love and and I walked around the store for a little bit and just what cannot arcus you so beautiful Laura wanted to meet a girl behind the counter. They became friends friends. And then something more. We hung out for a few months for like eight months before it ever really got there there by that. She means she and actually fell in love. It was a lot of growing up. She had to work through her feelings. Being gay isn't necessarily an easy thing. It definitely wasn't easy. Fourteen fifteen years ago. Oh No it wasn't coming out period during which she sort of I believe is two thousand four. She come over to the House and she goes Mama got something to tell you and check. I just want you to know that I was gay and I said well Ashley I already Eh but you need to give me some space. I need some time so Monica took some time prayed about it came to this conclusion fusion. I can imagine I'd given this child and living with her embracing her that he would want custodian. We'll have hang her would make any sense at all yet for a long while. Monica wasn't comfortable with these new relationship. Though the Laura Ashley Good together she was just always very giving and very what else can I do for you to make you happy. The romance lasted more than three years. Then it was over but they remained friends. Laura remembers how Happy Ashley was when she started working. Yeah the Merican Eagle outfitters at the Ulan Mall in Fort Worth Nasty loved it. She was an assistant manager. And good at it sitter boss Chris Gravy just personality caring loving compassionate. She just loved life and she loved taking videos of her life. Lots of them at work. I'm extremely tired. And this right here is not even helping with my eyes. It's it's horrible. She had this laugh. It was so infectious than she. All like that however employees. Lindsey Green said another assistant manager. Carter Carter was very different from Ashley. S- Tummy out to love myself to appoint Carter just taught me a work. Related things jokester poster right but Ashley Polar opposite and popular. This is what it looks like. I'm so hood. So so work was going her love life too much and then one night Ashleigh went out with friends and April moffitt was there and I was there waitress and she was having a bad line and track coach trying to pull her out of her shell. She wasn in having it so I just fine. April gave up on her grumpy customer until months later they connected on social media media. They met for a dog. Walk Ashley brought her dog. Nala April brought cooper and everyone clicked. What was it like when you I started going out with her? See has a magnetic force to her like. It's hard to not insanely thinly. Love her so by the summer of two thousand fourteen life was good for Ashley Social Life. Her job does. She did hit a bump of sorts in August when someone stole eighteen grand from the store. Safe and was Ashley who realized the theft occurred and reported ported to you correct. She even helped ide- suspects with her interest in police work. Ashley thought she might have a calling here. She wanted to go onto loss prevention and a work for our Home Office at American Eagle. She was thirty one. She had all kinds of plans but on the morning after Thanksgiving Black Friday the biggest shopping day of the year. Chris Cravey's phone rang at home. It was our other assistant manager saying Chris Ashes apartments on fire and we can't get her on the phone for close on as fast. I could get started driving a fort worth and you followed the smoke trail and the sirens coming up. No one would have guessed where that trail would eventually lead. We were asking if we could talk to Ashley or where she was at that. You said that she's unavailable right now and Ashley's friends weren't the only ones with questions. The police shuffling us into the office. It was the morning after Thanksgiving Black Friday. Laura love had only one thing on her mind. Black Friday was my favorite day of the year. I love to shop and save money but Laura rose black. Friday was about to turn very dark. Indeed I got a call from best friend of ours. She said Ashley's apartments on fire. Ashley's friends ends arrived at her apartment. Parking lot something like chaos. There is multiple police cars. Crime scene was there for was detective Jerry Studio and his partner partner Ernie sped over there to Ariza a Crowd that was starting to gather Next thing you know we have about forty to fifty friends and family and Co workers And then we had residents that were just you know looking from balconies so we had quite a crowd out here and now firefighters had squelched the flames and the detectives walked up the steps APPs to Ashley's door when you went into that apartment. What was that like? It was It was very disturbing. A woman's lifeless body was lying face down on the bedroom room floor. We waited until she was turned over. We gotta go look at her face and she was also identified by some of the tattoos and then they knew the victim Edward Name tattooed on her ribcage. Ashley Harris outside Ashley's friends were totally in the dark and we were asking If we could talk to Ashley or work she was that they just said that she's unavailable right now. Ashley's boss. Chris craving just arrived in trying to get some answers. I for a couple of hours. We just assume that she was being taken care of while they waited for information investigators. There's were realizing this was no accident. It was obvious that she had been beaten to the amount of blood that we found. And then we observe that her arms were bound behind her back and and her ankles were bound it looks. The detectives like actually had been fighting back against a truly vicious attack. She had been beaten and possibly tortured. We later discovered that her naked man slipped only that the fire looked suspicious so veteran arson investigator Wallace Hood. Good was called to the scene now knows there was fire damage on the bed and I also noticed that there was some fire damage to the victim now saw so newton abbado of alcohol Phi Gamma generally on the victims so like somebody set fire to her. There was some good luck. There was some burn marks on her. What did you also lead determine about the fire and how those silver points from origin and that's an indicator of intensity? Sit If our true so somebody took that rubbing alcohol ported here Puerto for their here Sir Chris gravy standing in the crowd outside watched his worst fears ears. Roll up in front of Ashby's part. I think hit me like a sack of bricks once I saw them. Start Taping it off for a crime scene and and when the corner pulled up Muhart Bro I lost and then the detectives looking very stern came came outside. Who asked some pointed questions it someone knows something see something at that point they start the police shuffling us into the office and they tell us I said even if we try to leave we could be arrested? Miller told you something very bad happened in there. Yeah one person not in the crowd. That morning was Ashley's girlfriend April muffin about one PM. April got a text from one of Ashley's neighbors. Hey have you checked on your girl. There was a fire in heart. -partment it's really. I thought Nala Ashby's dog April assumed Ashley wasn't at home. It's like holy crap. got a message from another friend saying simply call me and they called her and I said where is like where is harshly. Where's it all? And she's like all his fine. We'll whereas Ashley choose like Pashas Gone and didn't register go what do you mean gone. Then I said DOC will is actually okay no role. She's dead and I was sitting through my phone on the ground. Like that's not real reality settled in in April all of Ashley's family and friends and even the police had to wonder who would do such a thing to such a good sweet person Ashley. Harris had no enemies. Did she coming up for you out here on the cigarette. What did you see saw vehicle perk there that I'd I've never seen before but someone had seen it before a said I know who's car are asking about when dateline continues? True crime is my passion. If you're listening to the show I'm guessing you can relate but sometimes even I need the occasional break and I'm looking for a mental pallet cleanser my go-to refresher is best fiends. Best fiends is a five star rated mobile puzzle game and it only took me a couple of minutes of playing to figure out where all those five star ratings are coming from. It's fun it's challenging the gameplay changes every once in awhile I'm already level thirty five and it has stayed exciting the entire time I've been playing. You could play offline too. So best beans means is great for travel on a plane train wherever you find yourself. All of my upcoming holiday travel is definitely going to be a lot more manageable knowing. Have this superfund game in my pocket to pass the the time. Engage your brain with fun puzzles and collect tons of cute characters with best beans. Trust me with over one hundred million downloads. This five-star rated mobile puzzle. The game is a must play download best fiends for free on the apple APP store or Google play. That's friends without the our best means. Mother and stepfather were Out of town when the news began arriving in awful jagged bits first they heard about the fire. A Monica prayed actually wasn't hurt and she's father. Tommy Harris called and saw chat get off the phone and sign tears and I knew my prayer Wesson answered jock. Couldn't reach Ashley sister so we left a message sewage and not two minutes later my husband called me and he said why are you need to come to you and I said what is wrong with my mom. What happened to my mom needs? It's much some. It's actually I mean it. Just like a blow back and forth worth beliefs were still rounding up. People gathered outside Ashtrays apartment. Non Among them was April. April impact hadn't seen nasty for a few days their their romance. It hit a bit of a bump that night. We talked briefly about me coming over. After I got off work I went home but someone else was. Their name was Alexis. Torres Alexis Torres was the last person to see actually alive and was the actual last person to leave her apartment. The this certainly somebody would wanNA talk to. Obviously yes Sir Alexis said she. She and Ashley had gone to an early Thanksgiving dinner with friends in Ashley's complex so you had Thanksgiving dinner and that was from twelve ger and then hung around for the afternoon. Yes but actually had to work that night well actually schiff wasn't me from seven PM until three. AM and Alexis agreed to come over during the time that she was working to take care of Ashi dog then Alexis told the police on later us that she went back one more time after actually got at home for work. How long did you stay? I stayed for an hour that would make four. Am if Alexis was telling the truth. The police said the beginnings of time line but before they could check her story or anyone else's for that matter a neighbor gave them more to work with an ex COP named Steve Lee at noticed something about six thirty that morning here on deck having a cigarette. What'd you see saw a vehicle park there that I'd never seen before? What was that it? It was a black guy holder infinity to them back over to the observance ex cop that seemed worth noting. Did a stay there for a long time. It was there when I left for work about Seven forty detectives also talked to a neighbor. Live directly below Ashley. He had heard noises a heavy breathing coming from. She's apartment just before eight. Am few minutes later. The fire alarm going off Water started coming down and says there's apartment that's when the neighbor saw a black Infiniti g thirty five driving away armed with this new information deal. I went back to Alexis Torres. I asked her if she knew anyone or fascinating. You anyone that drove a Infiniti g thirty five. I never gave her a color simply asked her about g thirty I five Alexis said No. After he's done asking me questions I walked outside and sat down on the brick and it was Chris that was there that would be Chris Crazy. Ashley's boss at American Eagle. Alexis told him that police were asking about Infiniti sedan and Chris made a beeline for detective studio. I approached him and I said I know who's car Yar asking about. And and he says I just WanNa make you aware that I have a former employee that drive a INFINITI G thirty five. Her name he said was Carter. Peter Carter Cervantes that business like assistant manager. Who worked with Ashley and so then I ask them what color is the? GM thirty five that she drove and he mentioned that it's a black one. What was that like to hear that? Well that beats here in the colored red or white and by the way Chris told detectives Carter Carter left American Eagle because she was fired so. Do filed that away and sorted through the crime scene and talked to witnesses and the day that began at eight thirty that morning didn't end until one am. Did you get any sleep. No Sir. I didn't the story about Carter. Savant is under black. Infinity was just bugging him. Well I'm thinking about the case and I'm thinking word I go from here might have tossed and turned all night thinking about that but something thing inside him said Nope. I'M NOT GONNA be able to get any sleep on us. We'll go back out there and see what I can find. Wouldn't be as I wild. Goose Chase he had Carter's arturs address so we are Saturday morning. He drove over there and I saw a black infinity back Dan right in front of an apartment but he didn't knock on her door. I was going to go ahead and basically sit here and watch the vehicle to see if it moved for more than four hours. He sat in his car are cold but patient and then about eight. Am Saturday you saw the lights of the infinity flash as if somebody was unlocking remotely I see the male enter the driver seat vehicle. I then see a female enter the passenger side of the black infinity. They drove off. The detective followed all owed and after a few minutes the infinity bold into of all places the human mall so there they are. They're going back to the place. Where Ashley really worked? Where the American Eagle was? Yes but what would they be doing all that was that was the million dollar question coming up I ask him. What are you doing here at the mall? He said that he had dropped his girlfriend off to pick up some papers a routine errand or something else he didn't. NCAA lesser did anybody see her lesser And on the Saturday morning after Black Friday two thousand fourteen homicide detective Jerry Sedillo followed a black infinity into the parking lot of the law. He watched as the passenger a woman dressed in dark disclose headed inside. She fit the description he'd be given a twenty five year. Old Carter Cervantes a former coworker of actually Harris. The male driver driver stayed in the car so deal called his partner. Earning fate asked him to check up on the guy and when I approached the car then the person identified themselves self as David Mallory. David Mallory was Carter's live in boyfriend you to was a former employee of American Eagle. I asked him what he doing here at the mall. He said he had dropped his girlfriend off to pick up some papers on Air Apostol where she was at manager so perhaps it was just APP APP. David giving Carter a ride to pick up some paperwork at her new job aeropostale so decided to go inside. The mall was open but the stores were still closed. And I happen to go up to pasta and there is a A manager that's actually in there. Working and I was able to confirm that Carter Cervantes do not work for hammocks. He hasn't even novitiate as well. So much of that story. Yes sir. Scipio turned his attention to finding. Carter's Avantis no luck. You didn't see her at all and lesser. Did anybody see her lesser so so deal had a disgruntled employee coming back to the mall where she'd been fired hired. Her boyfriend was telling lies about a job. She didn't have an a car. Looked bikers had been spotted at the scene of a murder to take pates still. I've had David Mallory out in the parking lot. And he's looking for a reason to hold him decided he had a driver's license but he didn't have his driver's lessons with him. Reason enough us. He arrested Mallory and brought them in for questioning. But Carter seem to have vanished wasn't anywhere in the mall but then police went to her apartment complex at their she was now where was she in the apartment complex. Well she initially was in the In the laundry room. 'cause you please. She agreed to answer questions without a lawyer down at the station. Eagle by Carter or Carol Patter Kamau. She'd switched her dark closed for bright. Pink scrubs Do Nothing for work. I had a job opportunity. American Eagle outfitters. Oh Yes Carter's American Eagle connection detectives to do already heard a thing or two about that. Carter had worked at the Fort Worth store for about four months and it was business. Like but unlike Ashley. She wasn't a very friendly assistant manager. She did however make an impression on some younger clerks. Like Weiser Sean Toll. Carter is very smart very deep. She was good at reading people and knowing how to converse with thank you tell that she was well. Educated just had a lot more to her than most sales retail managers. Do but detective. So you knew something else about Carter and David Mallory. Something very important. Remember that burglary at American Eagle three months earlier Carter and David Mallory were the primary suspects and Ashley. Harris was the one who discovered the money missing and when actually came into open opened the store she found the safe open actually knew it was Carter who closed the night before and when she showed her boss the security video view of the burglary. She he pointed out the Monitor and she said that's David Mallory. I said WHO's David Mallory and they said it's Carter's boyfriend amass was easy actually figured Carter Ryder set up the burglary and David carried it out. Carter got fired. David sort of disappeared and both heard that it was Ashley who identified mm-hmm They hadn't been charged not yet but the case was basically actively being investigated when this happened and now three months later. Here Chris Carter talking to the police who were growing suspicious that she and her boyfriend were connected to Ashley's murder. Why am I here? Well which do you started off easy and see so we raise Morello or from Lubbock. Your family's still there. Mom Dad Brothers Sisters Brothers by deputy sisters and they all have you seen your mom and dad and awhile now. I've talked to him every day on text message and snapchat but I haven't been home more friendly family questions. And where did you go to school. Hoekstra Phenom University so. Do asked about Thanksgiving small. Would you make and I made Turkey A and they're stuffing mashed potatoes and green bean casserole and this cabbage bacon salad that my mom really likes to make but I don't think David liked it very much. This wasn't really small. Talking detective was paying close attention. All right so let's start with this morning all right this morning. What time do you get up about? Seven thirty cutting. I'm in what happens in and then we talked and I went back to sleep when I woke up. He wasn't there okay. Eat hurt enough. I know that's a lie. You know it's not what I know. It's a lie why because I saw so you come out of your apartment and get in the passengers fuel. That car and I saw him drive out of there. That's why I know it's a lie. A deal was tough. Your Car Carter. Savant wasn't giving an inch coming up. If Carter's lies weren't reason enough for suspicion suspicion. This was she starts wiping down the bottle. She was afraid that we're going to attain her DNA. And what was this all about. And who was it for. There's an actual human grave that's been Doug Christie fresh grave when dateline continues. Hey It's Chris assays sometimes it's good to just take a step back from the day-to-day onslaught of news and take a broader. Look at the issues. That's what I'm doing each week on my podcast. Why is this happening happening? We're exploring topics ranging from school segregation to climate change. Well the way that I think of it is climate change will be the twenty th century. What maternity west of the nineteenth century? It'll be the central subject of questions about economic justice. Everything you care about in the world will be affected by climate and digging deep with guests uniquely qualified to analyze issues from mass incarceration listen to race relations as you know for the first time in our history at the national level whites are on the verge of losing their majority status in twenty years. And I think it's no coincidence that our politics are getting more trouble. Join me for wisest happening. New episodes every Tuesday. Wherever you get your podcasts and it was late Saturday morning the day after Black Friday? Twenty thirty five year old Carter Savant was talking to detectives at lying through her teeth. I know what I did this morning. I know where I was. I know where Wing detectives certainly knew where she went. The he will in law but she kept insisting she'd been at home all morning here about to make the biggest mistake of your life. You understand me. But she's still wouldn't confess to US wouldn't budge. I got up. I went and put the laundry in and I went and checked the email. That's all you found me on the line. Then from the detective stepped out of the room. She did something interesting maybe incriminating. It took a drink puts the bottle down. She picks it up again before she can take the second drink she stops mid air. Spills watering herself puts the bottle down and just stares at had it for about ten to fifteen seconds she then reaches over and grabs a tissue from the table and starts wiping down the bottle. And then wipes down the mouthpiece. What does that say to you well that she was afraid that we were going to attain her DNA from the bottle after that police? Let her go David Mallory too but detectives had a theory cooking. The Carter and David Killed Ashley out of revenge for being fired for the burglary. But they also wanted Ashley's she's keys to the American Eagle because they were planning to rob the store again. Those keys were the only thing missing from the murder scene and went store manager. Chris Chris gravy looked at his surveillance video from earlier that morning. He told police that they wanted to hear. Describe what you saw the videotape. Somebody dressed in breath dark clothes. What their face wrapped walk right up to the store and try to get in with keys that he said was Carter trying trying to pull off another bigger burglary? Police just knew one day after killing actually and taking her keys. Carter was trying to break into American Eagle where this time tens of thousands of dollars the Black Friday prophets were in the safe but the key didn't fit because after Asti was murdered. Chris Crazy changed. The locks wasn't gonNA take any chance on whether it'd be a deposit or them harming somebody else in the store when you tell locked them out. Good detectives pulled the surveillance video and look at this Carter. Slipping away from the mall. Having already changed from her sweat. CLOTHES GOES INTO PINK. SCRUBS had to be trying to fool potential trackers. They thought this was after she would have spotted. Police talking to David in the parking lot and then she. She walked all the way on over the next few days. Police got a warrant for Carter and David Cell phones that camera APP so useful cool. Well we learned that they had conducted surveillance at Ashes apartment weeks before that that a picture of her apartment Her actual door to her apartment and they had pictures of her vehicle in the white dodge. Ram Pickup in early December. Two thousand fourteen Carter Savant. Doesn't David Mallory were arrested and charged with the murder of Ashley harassed. Cold Comfort for Ashley. Sister it's just such a loss and it so pointless. I just don't understand how people could do that. Separately the cases against them we're virtually identical asked assistant. Da Kevin Russo led the prosecution a that actually diener assistant from the witness stand. Detective Sedillo help lay out the case. Surjit her apartment parmenter vehicle and or find her seat. That's the sales receipt showed them. Aw Purchases on Carter's credit card. She had purchased to shovels. She had purchased a tarp. She had purchased gloves. Why I was fat significant because of a discovery way out in Texas Scrub Discovery Worthy of a horror movie? The the key to finding is right there on Carter and David cellphones each other longitude latitude coordinates and led us to to a remote area near Abilene. What was there As soon as we got to where spot says you're there we look up and there's an actual human grave sweats been Doug I grieve. Fresh grave prosecutors believed the original plan was to kidnap Ashley. Kill her and put what her body in that grave. She was killed in her apartment. The prosecutor thought because she fought so hard. What is that they in fact? Investigators believed Ashley. Harris was pistol whipped so when this block nineteen was found in the black infinity prosecutor. You had it tested. The results are both sad conclusive came back positive with Ashley's DNA on the gun so that was very significant. Can't what's this was not hearing all. This was so hard and Ashley's mother other Monica. I'd love ones like nope so I went and I went back into the room. Remarkable is and. She was consoling me. And she's pulling me. The brutality of the murder was never far from the prosecutor's minds. I just thought how painful and how awful the last few minutes of her life and absolutely terrifying absolutely terrifying. Ah even that said even that appear to be part of the plan. This wasn't just about robbery. Or even revenge said prosecutor Security Russo was Discussions Carter Savant has had had with people where she expressed Certain I guess you can call them. Fantasies fantasies involving killing people. Lies are shown. Paul Remembers one such discussion at work. And he's just us and we were folding clothes and she mentioned isn't that she had thought about killing someone before and whether or not she could watch them die. As if the murder wasn't shocking enough prosecutors were pretty sure Ashley's Ashley's murder was a thrill. Kill plan by a sadistic young woman. Thought she was smarter than everyone else. But tiny meek Carter's avantis admitted none of that. She still had a plan concocted all by herself to explain why she too was a victim coming up a vicious killer. You wanted to see the death penalty yet. Don't here's what I want or a young woman forced into a life of crime And when people talk about the trial of Carter Savannah's this is what they remember. Carol set against the advice of her turns Carter survivors took the stand. was that criminal mastermind years at a helpless victim. She gets up on the stand and it was insane. Carter said it was all her boyfriend. David Mallory controlling every aspect of her life. Free this is where Carter's defense truly began. She told the jury she was a woman enslaved by her sadistic sadistic lover. He's telling me what to drink with each. And and and he had that gun the glock she said used like a threat and it scared her not feel comfortable with that weapon to tell the jury she was asleep at home. When Ashley was being murdered she didn't know where David had gone? But somehow he wound up with a set of American Eagle Keys. She's on the lawn and then handed me a pair of American Eagle and he said lutely brilliant over and then she said he pulled out the glock any in just pointed at me yes across his body. I shook my head said you. There's somebody sitting outside you can go in. And so that's why she tried to rob the store. She said it was that or be killed. Just a couple of hours before she showed up on the security video she said David made it very clear. There're just how far he would go to make sure absolutely sure that she would do what he demanded down to the during the night before the break in attempt she said David brought strange men into their apartment. She you heard an angry voice above her then. Her story got even more a harrowing down raincoats. At not raped twice. She said sobbing by two different men. Prosecutors Kevin Russo Ashley. Diener seem to take it back as the rest of the courtroom. I know what I think. This is not true and they needed to regroup fast. This is the biggest lie she's ever told. We know that. But you never know what the jury's thinking Carter had an an explanation for just about everything even that moment during her interrogation when she wiped the bottle she wasn't wiping off her DNA. No she said the smell from the bothell reminded her being raped and she said that she suddenly overcome with the the smell of semen in the in the air and it had something to do with drinking out of this bottle of water and I thought now that that took some work. That is one heck of a lie and it was at that point that I put my pen down and said I am not writing this. I'm not going to write this down. His voice dripping with Sarcasm Prosecutor Russo took her story apart. It showed the jury a picture talk about various things. That's the one is laying there beside you go. Then he drew down into the heart of Carter Story. Just who were for. Those mysterious rapists all spoke way them described as your in here but said the prosecutor. That's exactly what she was suggesting if she was going to try to play the car and I was GonNa make spell it out as I don't know where his comments I associated with a certain type of speech has the right gap but if she was hoping to play to some random jurors racial bias. She guessed wrong. The jurors didn't believe it not for a second they. They found her guilty in less than two hours. As for David Mallory. His attorneys argued he had nothing to do with the murder he was involved with Carter. Yes but not with any killing. The jury didn't buy that either rendering a guilty verdict. In no time at all the verdicts were some consolation Lows who loved Ashley Harrell's. She saw the pastern. Everybody even when you couldn't see she she could see it. She had such a big heart in. This world is worse off both David. Mallory Carter's avant has received mandatory sentences of life in prison with no possibility of parole. It wasn't enough Ashley's MOM and Stepdad. You wanted to see the death penalty yet. Don't do what I wanted to what Monica wanted in put. It wasn't to be and now now. They claim to memories of their actually. Tell me it was the last time you saw your daughter physically in person and ah about a week before she died Ashley had invited Monica play. Bingo Monica was busy. I almost said no but something told her to stop what she was doing and go at always she glad she did. And I walk into the Bingo Hall and God their belt little girls and I smile at her going for and I kissed this side of her neck. And tell her tell you remember every syllable every moment of that day don't you. Yes these days Monica is is making new memories at the Bingo Parlor. Remember how skittish she was around. Ashley's girlfriend that I no longer now. Their family family. When WANNA can I go and get her nails done they always say oh your daughter so pretty she never correct them her? She's concerned. She gained several daughters and win their altogether. Ashley Sleep is there too. That's all for now. I'm Lester Holt. Thanks for joining us.

Ashley Carter Carter Ashley Harris David Mallory American Eagle Monica David Tommy Harris Carter Savant Laura Ashley Ashley I murder Carter Cervantes Ashley Social Life Ashley Polar assistant manager Ashley Harrell Ashley Sleep Carter
Federer vs Nadal - The Hothead | 1

Sports Wars

30:30 min | 1 year ago

Federer vs Nadal - The Hothead | 1

"Before we begin a quick note about some of the dialogue. You'll hear sports wars is based on extensive research sourcing and archival clips when clips aren't available. We sometimes will recreate scenes 'cause you know, cameras were always there. When all the best off went down while we can't always know exactly what was said. The dialogue is based on our best research of what happened. It's March twenty eighth two thousand four at the Miami open. The air is cool inside the locker room of stadium court and Key Biscayne, Florida. Roger Federer pulls his shoulder length dark hair into a ponytail and ties a white bandanna around his head he jumps up and down a few times. He's feeling confident. He's about to go out there for a third round match against a lower ranked opponent. This should be easy. He puts his racket bag over his shoulder and strides confidently through the tunnel that leads to the court. Here's the crowd before. He sees them nine thousand people packed into the stands all here to see the newly minted number one men's tennis player in the world do his thing. Tonight's lamb to the slaughter. Who cares? They're here to see federal notch. Another impressive win and Federer is eager to give them what they want on the other side of the net along the baseline his opponent is waiting. Well. Not exactly waiting. The guy is. Jumping out of his skin with nervous energy, literally. He's jumping up and down knees. Coming to his chest. He's a baby face seventeen year old boy preparing to play a match against a man vibe years his senior. But here's the thing. The kids been doing pretty well two years ago. He was ranked number seven hundred and sixty two in the world. But in the last year, these rocketed up to number thirty four most of the people watching have no idea who he is though all they know is his name Rafael Nadal before the match begins Federer in adults shake hands on the court, the chair umpire, then tosses a coin to determine which player gets the choice and advantage of serving first Federer smiles when it comes up heads until now Nidal's only seen Federer on TV watching him surgically destroy his opponents if he can even make this respectable showing against the number one player in the world. It would prove that Nidal. Is already a serious contender? If he could beat Federer. It would be an astronomical statement. When the first set begins federal surprise than the dolls chasing down balls sideline to sideline and sending them back to him with more topspin than Federer's ever seen as both players race forward back than side to side balls explode off their rackets like the sound drumbeats long. Thanks fish that. The dow. Doing the dull leads the first set five games to three. President belong to spend it the crowd and stunned. It's the best of three sets match. And now Nidal is only one set away from taking federal down the very first time playing after seventy minutes at five three in the second set an adult has matched. And then with the gimme overhead slam. Sponge win by man whose progress is so far so rapid. One one does wear. Just like that. It's over victory for the young Spaniard, though, the matches over it's clear from watching these to compete that. It's only the beginning Nadal under the bright lights. Not only introduced his scary. Impressive ability to blindside Federer. But that night Nidal made a statement to the tennis world, I'm seventeen and just took down a giants. And I'm only going to get better. If you're looking to build a website, but you've been putting it off. Maybe you don't know where to start or think it's going to be outrageously expensive. It's time. You got to know wicks dot com with wicks you can create a stunning professional website, all by yourself. Just ask the over one hundred and forty million people who've already done it, you can build your website from scratch or choose from over five hundred templates that are built to look beautiful and intuitive to us from there. It's quick and easy to change customize or add anything you want. Plus everything is optimized for desktop and mobile, so you'll look great on any device. Build a website of your own with wicks today for free. And if you go to wicks dot com and use the coupon code sports wars. You'll get ten percent off any premium plan with wicks premium plans, you get more storage free domain for a year and much much more. That's w I x dot com code. Owed S P O R T S W A R S for ten percent off any premium plan. From wondering, I'm Dan Rubenstein. And this is sports wars. Tennis requires one of the most intense individual efforts of any sport. And it can be lonely on that court. You're out there by yourself. Just your game. No coaching. No teammates to keep you in check. No halftime to gather yourself in just it's just you in your racket quick note, by the way, you can start listening to sports wars here. But if you haven't yet listen to our first series on the quarterback battle in Green Bay between Brett farve and Aaron Rodgers you can go back and listen to that series now or you can subscribe to wonder plus for an ad free version of the entire farve Rogers series this series, though is all about tennis today. We begin a five episode series on the battle between Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal. And that's because tennis has set the stage for some legendary rivalries org. Mcenroe Evert Navratilova Sampras Agassi and when Federer and the doll met for the first time and muggy Miami in two thousand. Nd four both of these players were only scratching the surface of their potential two very different players both exceptional who can use their unique individual approaches to beat a really dominate anyone in the world anyone that is except for each other. We'll explore what makes these two players the perfect adversaries to each other lefty verse righty, grace, Verson Durrance, their rivalry has defined not just a sport. But defines what it means to pursue perfection. And to understand what makes them rivals. You need to understand where they came from this episode one the hot head. It's spring nineteen ninety Roger Federer is nine years old. He's riding his bike to the TC old boys club in Basel, Switzerland pedaling fast as he can pass the towering black cherry trees. He can't wait to get to the club for his daily tennis lesson at school. He's restless and bored. But tennis has his complete attention. And it's been that way since he was four and picked up a wooden racquet nearly as big as he was he Todd onto a court and began hitting balls over the net and his family looked on in astonishment. The now nine year old fetters coach is young handsome. Former pro from Australia. Peter Carter Carter's convinced that Federer has the makings of a champion. The young player has perfect hand eye coordination gift for timing and the kind of savvy tennis instincts that just can't be taught even at this early age. He can comfortably hit forehands and backhands he serves. He has an overhead smash he's fearless at the net. He's even hitting some spin. He doesn't even like to practice. A lot sport. Just sort of comes easily to him for Federer. Peter Carter is the older brother. He never had Carter is patient with fetter. He has to be because for all of his talent. Roger Federer is hot. Head Carter worries that fetters temper will keep him from realizing his amazing potential. In one match when fetters eleven he steps to the baseline to serve he imagines hitting his serve perfectly landing in the corner of the service box zooming off the court before his opponent can even get his racket on the ball. He's picturing a perfect ace. But instead he faults his first serve. And then the second a double fault. How could he double-fault he lets out a scream and then bangs side of his racquet on the clay courts, sending a dust storm of clay Roger goes on to lose the match. And he's destroyed. He storms off the court and finds an empty one nearby. He finds the unpire 's chair huddles underneath sobbing, cursing smashes his racket to fits just tiny, shards everywhere. His coach Peter Carter approaches him he puts his arm around the boy, and he tells federal that he needs to tone down the emotion Carter assures his pupil that no one is perfect. But federal looks back up at him and says I will be. Carter just stands there watching an emotional Fedor as he speaks and sure there have been some great tennis champions with the red hot temper like John McEnroe he's emotional out there. But he still won huge matches Carter knows. That's the exception. In tennis. It's rarely a recipe for success. It's now nineteen ninety four four years later on the Mediterranean island of my orca. It's a magical place dotted with almond and olive trees and fields of wild lavender. If you're going to grow up anywhere, you could do a lot worse than my orca. And in the small ancient town of Monaco. There's clay tennis court, and it's on this court or seven year old Rafael Nadal is working on his forehand. The kid has unique style he grips the racket with both hands. Whether he's hitting a forehand or backhand. He waxed. The ball with power and precocious precision. Now, maybe in the junior ranks two handed forehand, and two handed backhand, isn't the most uncommon thing. But it's nineteen ninety four. And this two handed forehand thing is not the way it's done, and it's bugging his coach who also happens to be his uncle, Tony. Rafael stop stop stop Rafael walks over to his uncle how many tennis pros can you name who hit forehands with two hands? The doll scrunches up his face as he thinks about this zero. Right. And you're not going to be the first Tony's convinced that though Nidal is naturally right handed. He'd benefit from becoming a left handed player for one thing being a lefty has the advantage of hitting your forehand cross court to the righties backhand, which is usually the weaker shot. Tony asks his nephew to try it and right away, an adult powers lefty forehands like he's been doing it his entire life. When the dull plays in matches playing left-handed gives them a serve that right handed players have trouble returning as it spins away from their backhands it especially gives him an advantage against a righty playing with a one handed backhand as they're less able to absorb all that power Ross powerful. Lefty forehand practically knocks the racket out of their hands. So Tony has high hopes for his nephew sports are in the Natale DNA. Tony was a top thirty tennis player in Spain himself. He's also a bolero islands table tennis champion, and then there's an adult other Miguel on hell, he's a former soccer star who played in three World Cups for Spain and earned the nickname the beast of Barcelona. So maybe Tony thinks it's something genetic that motivates has young nephew to play and play and play watching him on court as he sweats and swells water and hits one serve after another. Tony knows he's witnessing champions work. Ethic and discipline. Discipline is big with Tony. He makes it clear that throwing a tennis racket in anger is an acceptable. He tells a young Rafael that it shows disrespect to those who are too poor to afford. Nice equipment so trains dole on old courts with scuffed balls. Uncle Tony tells Rafael that Rafa is the one who determines if he wins not the equipment. He plays with or the court. He plays on. But really there's no need to scold his nephew the young player. Does whatever Tony asks his trust. In his uncle is absolute. When eight year old doll enters the tournament in my orca for players twelve and under he's yet to have growth spurt. He's both younger and smaller than the boys. He'll play. So he hits high-bouncing fast spinning shots that shoot up out of his opponents strike zone. He scrambles for balls that would be out of reach for everyone else. Even when he's facing break points or about to lose his own service game Nidal stays focused and calm though. He lets off steam with shouts of and the barrage of fist pumps. He wins the tournament. But to Tony what matters isn't that? He won. It's the way he won. He sees that his nephews greatest weapon won't be his speed or arsenal of shots or even his power. It will be his mentality. This ferocity his passionate determination to defeat his opponent. And the intense driven way he practices and plays. He's just totally focused. It's a mentality. That's going to take no dull far beyond his small island by twelve. He's the junior champion in his age group for all of Spain. And it won't be long before he's going pro. I am so excited about our sponsor MAC Weldon. They make men's essentials with a smart design and premium fabric. That is convenient and easy to shop for we're talking outrageously comfortable underwear. Socks shirts. Undershirts. Hoodies sweatpants and more. This is stuff you wear everyday. It should be comfortable. Now, look MAC welders products. Look good. But that's only half the battle. When it comes to close. You're gonna put through the ringer. And I'm happy to report that this stuff performs well too. So whether you're working out headed out for a day, just living your everyday life. Mac Weldon is built to last and listen, I'm positive you've heard about their underwear or they're great sweatpants. But I'm gonna level with you. I own a bunch of hoodies. And I was looking for something new and as we speak. Yes. This is one hundred percent true. I'm wearing my new MacWorld and hoodie, and it's shot to the top of my rotation. This is my new everyday hood. It's not even close it fits great. It's warm, but breathable, it's not weirdly, boxy or baggy. It's exactly what I'm looking for. I could not be happier. Seriously. Check them out. I promise you MAC Weldon is better than whatever you're wearing right now. So for twenty percent off your first order, visit MAC Weldon dot com and enter promo code sports wars at checkout. That's MAC Weldon dot com. Promo code sports wars for twenty percent off your first order. Sports wars is brought to you by chase. So you're ready to buy your first home, but the market for your dream home is insanely competitive at chase. They get it chases closing guarantee gives you the edge you need to stand out as a chase customer. You're guaranteed to close quickly or you get a thousand dollars. So you can show homeowners. You're serious about buying without the personal letter or gift basket or sky riding it over their house getting your first home even faster with chase. Learn more at chase dot com slash sports wars chase. Make more of what's yours. All home lending products are subject to credit and property approval rates program. Terms and conditions are subject to change without notice not all products are available in all states for all amounts. Other restrictions and limitations apply. Home lending products offered by J P Morgan Chase Bank and a an equal housing lender. Tennis has four grand slam tournaments year in theory. They're all equally important, but anyone who follows tennis knows that. There's really only one that stands above the rest. Wimbledon Wimbledon is tennis heaven, the tournament is played on perfectly manicured grass courts and a prestigious club on the outskirts of London. It's the most proper historic of tournaments. There's a dress code of white closed for the players the concessions serve strawberries and cream, and it's not unusual for members of the Royal family to attend in their very own luxury box inside the main stadium winning Wimbledon is an automatic ticket into tennis lore. It's the masters the Super Bowl, the Daytona five hundred only with more strawberries. It's nineteen ninety eight and sixteen year old Roger Federer is at Wimbledon for the very first time as he walks onto court one to compete in the junior division of Wimbledon. He feels like he's in a dream. He's wanted to win at Wimbledon since he first picked up a racket his shoes crunch, the manicured grass he heads to his chair. He loves the way it feels. He takes office sweater and takes his seat. He's nervous. Or is. He just excited in the last months. He's been dominating the highest levels of junior tennis. But even still winning the juniors at Wimbledon is just a different thing. He turns around and makes I contact with his coach Peter Carter. Lately Carter's relationship with his star player has been strength. They still see themselves as a big brother and little brother type, but sometimes the battle like angry siblings Carter's repeated attempts to keep fetters emotions and check that failed still Fedor understands that Carter keeps after him only because he cares. And now here at the All England Club. The birthplace of modern day. Tennis Carter is worried about Rogers outbursts, he fears that a tantrum or blow up could sabotage Rogers chances at winning federal then walks up to the net. He frowns something isn't right. So he turns Charon pyre and demands he measure, the nets height turns out, it is in fact, preg- height. The match begins and Federer is spectacular. His Serbs are unreturnable wicked his forehands perfectly placed and his timing. Impeccable. There's really no need to lose his temper and Carter is thrilled to see federa finally playing with the concentration of champion. He makes quick work of his first opponent. And then breezes through the entire field. Roger Federer is officially a junior singles champion at Wimbledon. And then two days later for good measure. He also wins the junior Wimbledon doubles title. So with nothing left to prove on the junior level health, turn pro months later and set his sights on winning the big one next year. The men's excuse me gentleman's Wimbledon title for now, though, he's not worried about his temper he just won the Wimbledon juniors. If that's what it takes to be a champion then. So be it. And yeah, he's been with coach Carter from the start Carter's been that big brother. He's. Watched fetters tantrums put up with his immaturity seen his worst moments. But if Carter doesn't wanna let federal beeped himself the young champion. Thanks. You know, what maybe it's time for a change. He can win without his coach by nineteen ninety nine Federer has been a professional for a year to play tennis light to match is because I'm a real match player because I don't like to practice a lot so much. How important is that to you? Enjoy the game because you're now with the big guys. So it's all about money. I don't look at the money though, because that's actually secondhand by the end of the year federal is ranked sixty fourth in the world making him the youngest player in the top hundred when he's playing poorly, especially against lower ranked players. His temper is still flaring up. He glares at Pires and opponents audibly swears and is still obliterating rackets when he reaches his boiling point by this point Federer has a new coach Peter Lundgren Lundgren is a former Swedish pro with long blond hair and goatee like a Viking warrior who reminds you to stay low with your half volleys. Lundgren meets Federer in the stadium tunnel. After one such match federal hands Lundgren has tennis bag and just keeps walking three steps ahead of his coach. He doesn't wanna talk about. It federal makes his way to Lundgren's car. No words are spoken. And as they get in the car Lundgren turns towards Federer, but before he can get a word out. Federer screams at the top of his lungs. He bangs his hands on the dashboard and rips off his headband. He so desperately wants to be in the world's top twenty five. But he keeps letting tiny setbacks eat them up. So inevitably there's a breaking point and fetters breaking point comes in two thousand one in Rome when he's facing off with a fiery Russian player named Murat Safran Federer and Safran both look like big cry babies on the court playing one another, but it's Federer whose knuckles turn bright red from punching his racquet strings anger. And now the entire tennis world is watching federal beat seven, but an Italian TV producer puts together a racket throwing montage and federal watches it actually he thinks it's kind of funny, but fetters on a quest for perfection. He knows he can be the best there is. But at nineteen years old seeing his tantrums play out in front of the world to watch he realizes it's his temper that may be the. The only opponents standing in the way of greatness and need to find a balance he tells himself. I knew the fire the excitement the passion the whole roller coaster, but I needed at a level where I can handle it if I'm all fire. I go nuts. Meanwhile, Rafael and the doll and his coach and Tony are at home in my orca watching the federal SAF and match that day dollars fourteen now, and he loves watching federal play an adult pumps fist. When federal hits a perfect dropshot or return SAF and serve with a big forehand winner. But the kid can't believe all the cranky racquet. Throwing the doll has never thrown a racket in his life. He wouldn't dare to from the start. Tony's laid down the law Rafa knows that if he ever throws a racket Tony will stop working with him. But besides the tantrums and the dull loves the way federal plays on top of pinpoint serve and lethal forehand. Federal just has a smoothness to his game that makes it look to a young adul- like he's floating through points. What would it be like Nidal wonders to play against someone like him? He pictures himself standing across the net from federal returning his serve ripping shots. Back and forth would federal beat him. Maybe or hey, maybe he wouldn't. Months later on my orca Rafael and the doll hasn't yet turned pro. But he unexpectedly finds himself in a match against a past Wimbledon champion, not a junior champ. A full-on pro Wimbledon champ Pat Cash and Australian who won the tournament in nineteen seven comes to the island to play an exhibition match against former German champion forest Becker. But when Becker withdraws due to an injury, the tournament director asks cash, if he wouldn't mind playing the best junior player in the region that player fourteen year old Rafael Nidal, I guess my after noon is going to be easier after all cash, thanks. But the doll doesn't view it as an exhibition as far as the young Spaniard is concerned. He treats it like the Wimbledon final. All he knows is his one speed just like Tony Todd him Nidal wins. The first set then loses the second the third goes to a tiebreaker cash is sure the kid will fold, but an adult doesn't Nidal wins. The match the fourteen year old kid has just beat a Wimbledon champion the next year. Nidal turns pro he's fired up and ready to test himself against the best players in the game. And one of those best players in the game is twenty two year old Roger Federer? He's been a pro- now for a few years, but he's yet to win a grand slam. It's the summer of two thousand three he arrives at Wimbledon as the fourth seed, but despite his successes he has a heavy heart. Even though Federer switch coaches in two thousand he and his first coach Peter Carter had remained close. Close intil tragedy. Struck last year Carter died suddenly in a car accident and Federer was understandably devastated. So Carter is always in the back of Federer's mind when he plays on this stage is one of the best players in the world. He feels that even more knowing Carter isn't there to watch him play. And it just so happens that it's that year on the opposite side of the draw in which a seventeen year old Spaniard by the name of Rafael Nidal is making his first ever grand, slam appearance. Nidal loses in the third round of the tournament. Never coming close to facing federal which is probably for the best. Because this Wimbledon Federer is unstoppable. In his first six matches federal loses. Only one total set he breezes to the Wimbledon final his first just last year federal could look up and see Carter in the crowd or know that he was watching at home today. He's without him when he can hear his voice as he. Takes on Australian Mark Phillips. Quicker the two. Schiff years fast. Federal quickly throttles his opponent in the final with the same efficiency with which he's marched through the entire tournament. Seven six six two seven six and federal wins. His first of it Wimbledon's highest. After winning. He sits down on the side of the court covering his face sobbing and relief and joy, there are even more tears when he addresses the crowd still more when he's handed the bleeding golden trophy. Wimbledon champion you'd better get used to that. Thank you know. It's it's enough to do to dream for me coming to and. I was always joking around when as boy, I'm gonna win this and. Roger Federer has hit his stride. He's officially turned the corner, mentally he feels unbeatable and in that moment, it's hard for the tennis world to argue and after a solid run through the back half of two thousand three he finishes the year number two in the world. He goes on to win the first grand slam of two thousand four the Australian Open. So seeing the benefits of keeping his cool. He's now Mr. common collected on the court. He knows that he's defeated his biggest opponent himself with his temporary shoe behind him Federer is confident that nothing and nobody can consistently stop him. But he's about to learn just how wrong he is. In our next episode federal meets Nidal for the first time in grand, slam in Paris at the always tricky French Open from wondering, this is sports wars federal versus versa doll episode. One new episodes of sports wars come out every Wednesday and Friday, please subscribe on apple podcasts. Spotify Pandora over ever. You. Listen to podcasts, you'll find a link to subscribe on the episode notes, simply tap or swipe over the cover art. You'll also see some offers from our sponsors, please consider supporting our show by supporting them. If you like what you've heard we'd love for you to give us a five star rating and tell your friends how to subscribe another way to support us is to answer a short survey at wondering dot com slash survey. And a quick note about the conversations you've been hearing we use many sources for our stories. And although we can't know exactly what was said. The dialogue is based on our best research. I'm your host, Dan Rubenstein. Elizabeth k wrote this story produced by your own discolor and Gabe Goodwin with Matt Ford sound design by Jacob Gorski are executive producers are Stephanie jen's marshal Louis and our non Lopez for wondering.

Wimbledon Federer Peter Carter Carter Tennis Rafael Nidal Rafael Nadal Uncle Tony Rafael Federer Tony Todd Miami Dan Rubenstein Florida Key Biscayne Peter Lundgren Lundgren Murat Safran Federer Australia Basel J P Morgan Chase Bank Fedor
Tom Watson Gordy: How One Uncles Adventures Inspired Jimmy Carter to Join the Navy

Ridiculous History

51:36 min | 1 year ago

Tom Watson Gordy: How One Uncles Adventures Inspired Jimmy Carter to Join the Navy

"This episode of ridiculous history is brought to you by the North Americana podcast. How well do Americans and Canadians really get each other. I've always wondered that myself been north. Americana Khanna has the answer when they dig for those very connections and crack open a few of the cliches that we have about these two countries that's right from immersion. Asian indigenous culture around the Great Lakes to the real people who inspired the Tony nominated musical come from away which is set in Gander Newfoundland on nine eleven north Americana uncovers surprising stories that connects North Americans from Canada and the US alike yes and along the way they talked to fascinating American and Canadian storytellers retailers from award winning Broadway actress to National Geographic Editors. It's an absolutely fascinating cross-border conversation sponsored by destination Canada the North Americana podcasts spotlights fantastic American storytellers from the US and Canada alike under surprising tales that connect Americans and Canadians listen now on all major podcast platforms ridiculous histories of production of IHEART radio show and welcome come to the show ridiculous historians. Thank you so much for tuning into day as you know we are we're big fans of Presidential Trivia via obscure presidential facts of more untold and dare. I say ridiculous stories throughout the the the history of this fine nation of hours. I'm Ben these here. United States been the very same me being no doubt things being equal yes yes and where would we be without our super producer looser. Casey Peregrine. Let's give it up for him and longtime listeners you may recall that in our most recent presidential episode sued we explored the story of George Washington's little known but incredibly formative adventures in Barbados short time listeners. Even that was only like three episodes ago. That's true yeah. Let us know if you're if you actually listen to these in order. If you just jump around and you're like I don't know April twenty seventeen. That sounds like winter nearly really missing out if you aren't doing it in order because there's continuity here my friend little. Easter eggs rebuilding a world here building yeah the the R. H. C. U. Exactly yeah but if you will recall from that earlier episode and also I don't remember whether our show is around in April of two thousand seventeen. It's possible is positive knowing we've seen yeah. This is impossible information find. It's just lost to the sands of time Casey other case about the new sound cues pretty great. the other one was getting a little too expensive so executive. Dick Wolf senators season desist finally yeah guys like the night of daytime procedure. I got a name like Dick Wolf Amazing name speaking of amazing names. If you tuned in to our episode on George Washington Barbados you'll recall recall that we did not we did not sally forth into that story alone were joined by good friend of ours friend of the show our research associate Associate Ryan Bearish and Ryan is here today in this episode as well a Ryan. Thanks for coming back man yeah thanks for having me back dated supplies I have to I have to paint a picture here. Ryan wearing an amazing tied I right now that says spent a little time in the mountain folsom Field Boulder Colorado July fifth and six twenty nineteen is this some sort of hippie concerts grateful dead situation. Yeah it was the last grateful dead concert or deadandcompany concert on the tour. Oh Nice as you go I didn't. I was invited to go for Andrew's bachelor. A mutual friend of ours Andrews last name is escaping mainland Wanda's rely shirt key does shirts for all kinds of baffling higher air weekend and and the the deadandcompany so you said I'm not GonNa go but Gimme the shirt hope. Your marriage works out yeah. Basically you're more of a fair weather dead fan right. Yeah Yeah deadheads deadheads. That's right now not to be confused with parrot heads which is fans of Jimmy Buffett or gives heads. Guess has learned about Alveda King gives in the Liz. I actually saw I was in Los Angeles recently and I saw John Mayer at a restaurant and he is devilishly handsome. Let me tell you I mean I would love love to look like that. When I'm like forty six apparently very problematic character though well also just in defense of anybody who has felt the same way or like if you've ever looked at celebrity and thought wow they look great for their age and all that stuff in your defense no yours Ryan and yours not that you need to Casey I I and everyone listening keeping those people have teams of folks who are paid as like a paid a living wage to only worry about you know that that person's teeth or that person's skin care. They're weird. You know wart like do we keep it. Is it good. Pr Do we get rid of it. You know what I mean so there's an army army behind that and speaking of Weird segues a we so often think of enormously influential historical figures you know popes prime ministers and presidents and so on as these sort of standalone episodes of human history ripe but as we saw with George George Washington and as we've seen with every historical figure once you dig a little deeper they are the results were sort of an aggregate in many ways of all the amazing amazing people and experiences they had before they became you know the lauded individual. They're known as today like Jimmy Carter Jimmy Carter Carter indeed and I I've always been an interesting figure to me and I'm sure you as well been because he looms large here in our fair city of Atlanta Georgia. We have the Carter Center which apparently has a lovely Koi pond behind it. I just found out Yes yes. That's true It looks like Casey had some experience with that. I would take good outside yeah. We'd take I would take a date there there especially if I really liked or we go out to this this neat little kind of hidden garden. It's got a great view of the city if you're ever in town and also they don't charge you to go there with a picnic right. It's a it's a cool little Jim. If you ever want to have a a learning experience in Ryan you actually do you done some work there right yeah you know in addition to being the Presidential Library and Koi pond and also great farmers market. They have a very large presidential archive for President Carter's work and his foundation's work and actually the archive of of family members as well and he's almost more famous for his as you know his foundation than is doing a great job is being president right yeah he had his presidency was not one of the most successful ones it is divisive even in Georgia to talk about his time in office. We see him as kind of a philanthropist. Someone working for human rights him him in Rosalynn Carter have a great organization and it's housed act truly at the House that General Sherman took over when he seized Atlanta so it's a pretty prominent part of Atlanta. That's why you have the great view of downtown so that was a complete non sequitur but what we're going to talk about is related to the military and kind of the reason behind Jimmy Carter's idea or desire to join the United States Navy. He was actually inspired by his his uncle on his mother's side. Thomas Watson Gordy not the populist senator slash presidential candidate it from Georgia Thomas Watson who he was named after G. I would have thought that immediately yeah. I'm kidding I. I don't know if that is you're always working. Thomas Watson oculus Georgette later c-conversation populist but we're recording on a special day because it is Thomas Watson gorgeous birthday today so he would have been a hundred and thirteen. Let's do the birthday math. I think it's right yeah nineteen ninety six you know six yeah. He's from a large family. had eight eight total children. He was as before President Jimmy. Carter's mother is one of them but when he was married and starting young family it was in the middle of the Great Depression so he was looking to provide for his family during the difficult time and what he did in order to do that was enroll in the navy. It's it's something that a lot of young men did at this period because you couldn't really see the world. There wasn't a lot of money and the military ensured a comfortable living. I mean how people still do do that to this day or at least kids. I grew up with who didn't do super well in high school and wanted to see the world didn't have any money the joined the navy join the military yeah definitely. I think the military if nothing else is a good a good thing to help you experience different cultures to travel and to be stationed abroad so this is something that entice GORDY to do this in addition to having the the young children and wife back home he would send postcards to his family not just his immediate family but his sister and Jimmy Carter would read these postcards and was something that got him thinking about actually starting zone naval career at this point I think he was in his late teens getting ready ready to graduate high school so these chords can have arrived at a time when he was eligible to enlist in the military so we talked about this a little bit off air and and one thing that I found fascinating here was that not only have none of us including Casey heard of Thomas Watson Gordy before but a lot of of our listeners even those who consider themselves fairly well. Well read Jimmy Carter Buffs specifically may not know that much about Thomas Thomas Watson Gordy because he's Kinda hard to search for and you had to do some real digging to learn about this guy right yeah at best. You'll see Gordon's name. Come come up. Maybe in a memoir or Bagi about Jimmy Carter in reference to his political campaign. He's that a lot on the campaign trail to explain lane kind of as an antidote as as to why he joined the military and also as we'll find out later as kind of tailor forgiveness and redemption so he referenced him almost as mythic figure almost a parable but there isn't a lot of information. If you do a search search on on Tom Watson Gordy at best you come up with sort of genealogy websites and and kind of obituary pages. Yep Did that about ten minutes ago. It came up with nothing yeah. He's he's not well known but fortunately he at least set the groundwork for him to become well known because while he was once he had returned so spoiler he does return. He created a pretty detailed manuscript. telling as time he was also also able to keep a diary while he was abroad and that's pretty odd as you'll find out because while he was stationed abroad it was was a time where he didn't necessarily have the most freedom. I gotta ask. You Ryan this being a sort of a deep deep historical cut what was is it that fascinates you about this guy that made you kind of want to dig in and find out everything he could about him. One of my hobbies is is locating someone or a piece of history that hasn't really been explored so I was working with one of my professors who talked about Jimmy Carter's archives and mentioned that there's a lot of just familiar content. There's a there's pages and pages of of different family member's personal belongings in this archive so I started speaking with the head archivists there and just I asked if he had any diaries or manuscripts or something on kind of oxygen family member and it was fortunate that it ended up being someone that they did play a role in Jimmy Carter's life but also someone who kind of has a big through way in mid century America his his life wasn't uncommon when compared to many veterans of the Pacific Theater and his life was also very parallel with just the changing time because something something finds a fascinating about mid century history is is existing during a period of like the Great Depression and also existing during the nineteen sixties. Those two periods are completely different. they're filled with despair in poverty and then excess and kind of new new budding technology. I think that's a really interesting time to have have been alive born before television right and then living to see someone land on the moon there. There's there's a very dense amount of progress in those in those areas. Also I mean like this there. The story is about to veer into awesome pretty fun ridiculous heroic kind of territory right now to like this guy it was on the one hand sort of a case study in like what a life like this might have been but he he got into some interesting hijinks. Tinny yeah the journal that he wrote it started just a few days before the Japanese invaded Guam and took prisoners so this happened the day after Pearl Harbor so there was almost no no knowledge no information had made it to Guam yet yeah and when Gordy and his comrades were communist that's fine. I think it's a word they don't own because his his brother's pals yeah his his brothers in arms they they were looking around and they noticed the Japanese unease military coming on to the island from from multiple ports of entry and Gordon has his friend they were an operator of like a radio operator communication so they would have been the first to know but at this point they hadn't gotten information. There was no expectation that they would see any military action in because to this point the Pacific theater was void of any real Western interference so it was basically Asian countries in in Russia kind of fighting amongst themselves they had formed kind of this normal life and I think that this ability to form a normal life in a foreign country brought them a sort of comfort comfort. They you know they were experiencing. New People new cultures new drinks new food. There was a constant change that they were experiencing but it was really calm. Tom Experience until the day that the Japanese came onto the island and started taking the prisoners right December tenth nineteen forty one correct yeah and right before that I think a day or two before the the captured takes place gordy writes in his diary that has one regret was that he didn't didn't mail the money order in time for the holidays he was looking to buy a bicycle for his his youngest son and had not sent the the money in order for his his wife to buy in time for Christmas Day so you can see how he had kind of developed this routine of of normalcy on the island. I was almost like having a job in a different city but ironically the first time that he encountered the Japanese way he noticed was his bicycle was outside the House and the Japanese were looking at it and that's what hinted them that somebody was still stationed there right because as you established before when you were when you were doing the research here the Japanese forces found a surreal twilight zone esque situation they were searching for Americans and survived earlier bombings and when they came to the area the camp was a ghost town right like everything except for where were those little dust devils that blow across means tumbleweeds dumbly yes yeah they're everything but the tumbleweeds this. This is a spooky situation but they're walking by these residencies dorms essentially and they see this pretty well maintained bicycle. Michael What happens now so one of the Japanese soldiers actually steals the bike and rides away on it at this point. I think that Gordy realizes he cannot escape the Japanese. You know has lost his only mode of transportation and at best a bicycle against whatever soldiers might have would. I would hardly stand a chance so he convinced his housemate to surrender peacefully. He explained to his house. May that it would be better for us to take a chance and turn and and they weren't combative soldiers so they weren't necessarily equipped to stage any sort of large ray large or anything like that why not resistance yeah and so as the as the Japanese came by they surrendered by walking out of the House with their hands raised he gorge's main priority at this time though was to sneak cigarettes threats in his diary with him so those are things that he hid and sought in his friend socks cigarettes he had the diring close and they walked out they were driven into a plaza which which house the hospital where they are asked to remove shirts and searched somehow they didn't find cigarettes or the diary in the socks or the or the pants but they were basically you know left without anything any personal belongings short of those two and the the POW's in the Japanese situation this time I did not enjoy much in the ways of like international conventions like new Geneva Conventions things like treatment of the captured in wartime time as a matter of fact these guys are the very bottom of the social hierarchy right yeah they Japanese customs typically don't involve taking prisoners so in their military leterrier code you WanNa fight until your last breath and you never WanNa think about surrendering to the enemy. It's almost a perplexing thought to surrender in Japan Japan. They're taught to fight until until they pass away so I mean th th there if they're even shamed in any way at least in the old you know futile feudal Japan and as and the Samurai I mean they would commit ritual suicide in front of everybody if they were defeated in some way or like you know shame their family I mean that was absolutely part of their culture makes sense yeah and and we see it even later with things like kamikaze pilots so it's relatively odd to have kind of accept a peaceful surrender and accept prisoners because if you're fighting awards also just another thing to consider how we're GONNA take care of them. How are they going to house them. So what we see is Gordy Gordy and his fellow captured prisoners they are taken to a hospital in Guam Hospital can kind of act as a as a makeshift prison based on the way. It's set up but there there isn't really a an infrastructure set up to take care of these prisoners. We see a lot of abuse. Gordon describes is an instance of being punched with a belt buckle while brushing his teeth. He doesn't really makes me cringe yet. It's probably on the bottom my list of things no dot. Net things that are always a real red flag for me yeah and there's all kinds of other mistreatment that he witnessed as well yeah. I mean the hospitals did have nice rooms but they removed all the bed so that's just one aspect of this kind of prison environment that the Japanese he's looking to create they stayed in this hospital for about two days before their move to Catholic church where food was even more limited so they had been receiving two meals a ping pong sized potatoes and a slice of Baloney less than a month later Gordy and written that they were there boarding a ship and this kind of signaled the end of a freedom for him he was leaving the country that started to feel at home in over the past few years and now he's headed to a foreign country for an uncertain amount of time out of the frying pan into the fire or perhaps we should say the frying pan onto the Hibachi support for ridiculous history comes from our POWs at rocket mortgage by quicken. Loans home is so much more than a house. It's your own little slice of Heaven and that's why when you find the perfect place for you and your family getting a mortgage should not get in the way who knew haven't even came in slices but let's imagine this. How might it feel to have an award winning team by your side. Through every step of the mortgage process will tell you it's awesome and it's exactly what you get with rocket mortgage by quicken loans their team of mortgage pitch experts is obsessed with finding a better way which means that their number one goal is to make the home buying process smoother for you. Quicken loans has helped millions of Americans achieve their dream of home ownership and when you're ready to purchase the home of your dreams they can help you too. That's why JD power has ranked quicken loans highest in customer satisfaction action for primary mortgage origination nine years in a row and highest in mortgage servicing for five years in a row to get started online today at rocket mortgage dot com slash history he stuff equal housing lender licensed in all fifty states in L. S. consumer access dot Org number thirty thirty for JD POWER WITH INFORMATION VISIT JD POWER DOT COM rocket mortgage by quicken loans push-button get mortgage they take these pure ws to Japan where things get worse and worse and this is interesting because I was looking through some research on this. Ryan and I notice like you said at the top of the show in his diary he the list he keeps track of things like his income and he continues to do this in the Japanese prison but we're still i. I don't know we have some speculation on what he was doing. Most of the people in prison don't have jobs like that. Yeah it it is odd that he was able to know tate restore receiving income income and it appeared that he was able to work for different people may be doing odd jobs and both jobs within the prison. The conditions in Japan Pan were as you can expect poor. They didn't have prison setup. Their only source of heat was actually a small botchy made of ceramics the he wasn't really able to keep the prisoners warm it kind of just turned into a a cause of of actual physical headaches from the carbon monoxide side that was coming from the cheese. There is also sanitation issues. things like a long slit cut in the floor that was just the toilet ooh but despite the living conditions he does note that that he is being paid we doesn't state where it comes from but based on based on reading that that that journal that he wrote and also I was able to find some books that people who were actually captured in Guam at the same time as him and they know that they were able to to work small jobs or work extra hours whether it was forming or or manufacturing to earn so a little bit of extra money so I would assume his his situation nations the same but he does talk about creating sort of a a barter system by stockpiling cigarettes and later selling or trading them that also is likely a source of income that he had by you know kind of hoarding cigarettes as he had them and using them as a leverage tool later on that allowed him to gain a little bit of power our kind of in the in the prison socioeconomic life he's able to swap and buy things in secret and also like I said possibly being paid under the table lake he could he could cook for Japanese officers who didn't feel like cooking for themselves. That seemed to be a job that some prisoners were able to do to earn some money what kind of secret now at this time he was still allowed to send and receive mail as I correct. I don't believe so okay because I know he he would write letters others sort of as addressed to his family but they weren't actually going anywhere right yeah he had he he'd write in his journal. little letters that never ever were removed from his journal they were just kind of kept in there as a way to feel like he was communicating possibly and what is odd around this time his family's actually actually notified that that he was likely dead by the Red Cross wow so with that lack absence and communication from him and that notification advocation his family back home was starting to will most likely feared the worse they were presuming him dead and we're looking at you know moving on with with their life which is pretty difficult while Gordy was still kind of doing the repetitive days and the prison which started to mess with him physically and mentally he was eating the same thing every day. He was working on farms and steel factories. He didn't know when it would end if it would end if he would live to see and and I think that lack of hope was kind of making it difficult for him especially around Christmas which again if you remember at the top of the podcast we talked about him trying or forgetting to send them money order to his wife for bicycle well this Christmas marked about a year since he'd been held captive and he was he missed just writing letters to his family but he in his notebook would right and they're about how he guilty. He felt about missing the important events if you look in the calendar calendar and we'll post some images of of his calendar who notat all taste he misses and it's it's really sad to see the also notat's medical issues. He has ask teeth. He lost all sort of sorts of interesting things on there one interesting thing that he did keep in his calendar was he he would not when he shaved his beard and effort while he actually had a beard growth count that he was his working growing a beard became a little bit of a distraction attraction forum and whenever he was asked to shave his beard he would typically write about it in his journal and express some frustration that they were trying to take away one thing thing that he can control so he was trying to create some sort of rhythm in meaning from self in his life and through writing in this journal and keeping a calendar but but the days were still strenuous and you know the diary provided some relief but it really was kind of small thing in the grand scheme of things of of course you also wrote about revenge fantasies right and hopes for hopes for retribution yeah if you you recall when he was captured he convinced his house may go peacefully so he really didn't have a violent streak or and aggressive streak and it appeared before being captured but towards the end of his journal you start to see things like him saying that he you would like to watch them die or be the one that kills them. He starts to talk about about in in pretty physical league gruesome detail or very specific detail about how he would like to harm them. Yeah I mean I can relate to that sure I mean that's how long how long was imprisoned total at at this point. It was at this point when he starts writing about it. It's about a year. That's that's enough. I don't know I'd make it that long without thinking some pretty pretty impure thoughts about what I WanNa do to the folks that were like torturing me making me sleep on the floor and you know all of this stuff. It just seems very very very very awful. I think a year is more than enough. You know what I mean and if I'm sure we have people listening now who have kept journals and diaries who are not in a military prison situation right and they probably already have some some pretty heartfelt. S- graphic angry things in their own life experience during peacetime it was interesting to me. Ryan the story of Mea Sake who is like one of the big Bads for Gordon at least yeah Misaki who was actually the person who punched Gordy with the belt buckle earlier while brushing his teeth he is he's brought up a couple of times throughout this journal one time he writes that I hope he gets killed in the first air raid here and I hope that I will be here to see it so oh that kind of gives you an example of he not only wants wishes death upon him but he also would like to witness it. which is I think to me? The the ultimate disdain deigned for somebody and what's really interesting is that Donald Gyles who's the author of captive of rising sun which is his memoir that he wrote but while being captured with Gordy he doesn't mention Gordy specifically in the book. It's really interesting because they mentioned a lot of the same characters so while they may not have been necessarily close enough to write about each other. They were having a shared experience within this prison again like we said he was really non-combat if he was he was willfully surrendering to them now he's moved towards wishing death upon Japanese guards yep. This is weird too because we can kind of see this inner world world that has been constructed right because whenever people are isolated from the larger world we sort of conform to the the size of heart container in every sense of the word so he's monitoring things as closely as he can so he doesn't get lost in the sameness and the routine and one something fascinating here is like many people who are imprisoned he is trying ardently to learn any any news of the larger world right and he figures out some ways to do this but it's not as simple as you know hopping on a phone or hopping on computer a reading a newspaper even he has to kind of guess based on the changing behavior of what the guards the authorities yeah he would often. I assume that the way that he's being treated if he's being treated positively it meant that it's possible that the Americans were winning that the Japanese keeping keeping him captive might be coming to an end and he's being treated worse he would assume the opposite so that the Japanese were winning the Pacific theater kind of towards the Enron close to his release. He actually writes that he says my God. We must be winning the war because there was one day where he went to a concert that they held their he had free cigarettes and large meal which was definitely not the the common situation for him in the prison. Let's cut back to the good old. US of a screw across the pond and believe earlier you said that many of Gordie's relatives were convinced convinced that he was dead in that was based off the the estimation of the Red Cross right yeah so they were unable to verify when he was taken captive or killed in previous bombing rate so that he was assumed dead by the Red Cross. This had an impact on on multiple members family. Jimmy Carter it kind of was the final nail in the coffin I guess or the the final thing that made him decide to enlist in the navy because he wanted to honors uncle who paid the ultimate sacrifice during his time in the military or so he believed at the time World War Two is still going strong long so at seventeen he he enlisted which was definitely a major life. Changing is something the sailor identity is is actually something that was really important onto Jimmy Carter in the early part of his life as far as the rest of his family goes his wife getting the news that her husband had died with her two young children she was living in San Francisco across the country from family that can help so she moved back to rule Georgia to be close to Tom's family and the carters Carter's as well. She was living there for a little while until she found out that he was confirmed or supposedly confirmed dead so from the time he left the time he found out she she was spending the time in Georgia but once she found out he was dead she decided to move back to San Francisco and try to continue her life there where she actually got remarried and started a new life now as you guys know he does return home so this this remarriage kind of sets up a an awkward grit situations upon his return he weighed less than one hundred pounds so obviously it has taken a toll on him dorothy. When she found out he came home. She offered to annul her current marriage. which is I don't know how you feel about that? I feel like it's a nice thought but that's what's that some. Things can't be mended a little too little too late kind of situation. I think right yeah. It feels like maybe she was doing what she thought was the right thing to do. Your many in the in the Carter family thought she got married too soon. It was kind of a common thing that they blame his his his first wife Dorothy with with contributing to his mental anguish and depression that he experienced in the rest of his life while Jimmy Carter actually spoke about this on the campaign trail is something that is way more nuance than just being remarried because if you assume that your husband's dead especially after a couple of years of of him being detained. You're going to assume that you will. You're going to want to continue life. You're going to want want to find some sense of normalcy. Whether that's a husband new job a steady place to live sure there's going to usually be changed involved in that and I'm sure she wasn't expecting her husband to reappear so I do think it was a sweet gesture but it is one of those I don't think there is a winning situation nation in any of it because someone's going to be terribly bothered by by a decision that's made and unfortunately Dorothy was putting kind evatt impossible situation yeah sort of rock and hard place. He said Kobe Shoe Meru for the Star Trek fans out there Thomas Watson Gordy have to say I think thank you made the right decision by saying no don't don't annoy your marriage just because you feel like it's the right thing to do do what you truly want to do and he lived out the rest of his life in the US he passed away in nineteen seventy five and by the time he passed away. Jimmy Carter's career was already in like he had seen the career begin from the navy days so on on and and I think it's safe to say that for a long time. Jimmy Carter considered Gordy to be like one of his personal heroes right. Yeah he looked at Gorgias someone who was willing to take take chances and to change his life and to stand up for what he believed him and that's something that Carter order carried with him whether it was joining the navy at seventeen running for governor being involved in politics in general Carter with someone who wanted to provide provide for his family by carving his own lane in life rather than relying on his family's peanut farm when she does go and help with in the future but not before he's created his own identity so he's someone who even at a young age was looking to eclipse the shadows of his parents which is a pretty good trait to have an as something he picked up from his uncle who there is a little bit of a happy ending he does remarry at some point in the in the final thirty years ears and so he does have a partner and she was actually pivotal in encouraging him to write the manuscript. Try to process the feelings because he it did become sort of a racial crushing in a in a way racist curmudgeon towards the end of his life he you really couldn't bring him around. people of Color is particularly Asians because he would trigger this this. PTSD type feeling which reminds me of like cotton hell from King of the Hill L. where he would just have like fire flashbacks. Apparently this episode is brought to you by the Rolling Stone Charts Rolling Stone as the definitive outlet for all things music bringing you the latest news interviews and reviews rolling stone is your go-to source to learn everything about groundbreaking artists and now rolling stone is going even further to show you what it means to be on the rise introducing rolling Stone Charts and Interactive Seta Music Charts that offer an in-depth in the moment view of the biggest songs albums and artists in music the rolling stone charts are the definitive guide for trending breaking in popular popular music in the age of streaming his rolling stone dot com slash charts or search are s charts. It's worth noting that while his life was difficult he did get to live a long life. He did get to come back to America which he was seeing rapidly. It changed range. I can't imagine what it would be like to leave. A during the Great Depression and return once the economic boom head had kind of turned. Do you go around. You know very different world when he left model ts were like the only car and you know mid forties or starting to see real real. Oh car models re. We're starting to see modern cities really grow and boom and part of that boom was was the tiki Bar Zoom yeah one of my favorite things in the whole world so now we're going to we're Indiana more positive note. Let let's bring it back around and something that many the people brought from the Pacific was that memory of of a tropical drink kind of a shady dark place which they would use to escape the heat eat and it was somewhere where they can kind of just hide away from from the day to day life sometimes it's from the friends he's of war. Sometimes it's just away to pass the time but as soldiers return day returned kind of with this trend started by Don Beach who opened don the beachcomber in Hollywood Hollywood California nineteen thirty four real name Ernest Raymond Beaumont guns right and I wanna say Ben you and I went to a pretty old school. Hollywood Tiki debar once called TIKKI TIKKI TIKKI tie yeah and I believe that beachcomber recipe for the my tie is like a big deal. It's like considered like the holy grail of like my hi. Ty recipes is a friend of ours. You've gotTa meet Ryan. His name is Robert Lamm. He's Co host of a couple of different shows here stuff to blow your mind and invention also a huge tiki fanatic so whenever on the road with him. Actually you know what if you ever just meet him and run into him. Ask him about some Tiki places. Make sure you have like thirty thirty minutes and make sure you're ready to drive somewhere with or fly. I'm not mistaken. This story is GonNA end up at one of my favorite places in all of Atlanta Georgia trader trader Vic's yeah Trader Vic's was kind of the the second Tiki bar to really establish itself in American culture trader. Vic's INC rated food as well as the my tie in the other drinks they brought over the famous Pu Pu Platter T. Sorry I cannot and trader. Vic's is is kind the the legacy of this this old guard of of Tiki bars. It's the one that as no said we still have here in Atlanta. It's a great establishment Bushman. It's really exciting dragon con Dao. Is there so much fun yeah. It's IT'S A it's a place to be gotta live band which I always love yeah yea and we're seeing resurgence here in Atlanta but there was a period of time kind of sixties through the nineties when Tiki bars were considered entered not invoke so he started seeing a lot of close fortunately as we know they've made a comeback and we we see them. Particularly around doesn't fifteen scene two thousand sixteen. We see a new desire to escape and it's so lucky that some of the historical ones are still around you know like trader. Vic's is pretty much as it's always he's been. There's a place in Portland called Alibi. That's like another older one. Maybe it is circa the sixties or seventies though that's the craze there are a lot of there are a lot more in the west coast. That's right mistrial. The the sixties and seventies still had Tiki bars. You we were just seeing the the bigger brands their their growth. It was kind of slow down kind of eighties nineties. You're not seeing any new t bars open but what is interesting by the Tiki bar. Formula is is based on cheap rum which at the time was the Pacific wasn't it wasn't in the Pacific. Yes so so don who was kind kind of a a world traveller. He wasn't necessarily in the military. That's not how will he was later but that's not how he found don the beachcombers my tie recipe he is he thought what is the cheapest liquor hands on at that point in the Caribbean rum was was very inexpensive and very sweet and worked as a fine substitute for what he had tried when he was in the Pacific back to the sort of escapism and the fall of the Tiki boom what we see in in nineteen eighty nine current president donald trump he made a purchase of the Plaza Hotel in New York. He doesn't own it anymore more thankfully but what he did was closed in original trader. Vic's in midtown Manhattan which is pretty disappointing because is it would be really cool to have an original toiler and he thought it was tacky right or you say it wasn't on brand or something yeah. He said it it was mm-hmm. It was tacky and it wasn't in line with what he would like to achieve. You can read the original Nineteen eighty-nine article where it's literally title trump to close a tacky trader Vic's and then your time so it's a trump called the tacky yeah access to talk about the pot calling the kettle title gold plated right yeah. It's definitely ironic and like trump has become sort of tacking out of fashion what we're seeing thing is is this resurgence and in Tiki bars but we can't forget about is the impact this situation had on the island of Guam. wom like many territories or colonial islands never really gets a fair shake. You know they're occupied. They become an advantageous piece of land whether for resources or military reasons but when it was time to take care of the citizens of Guam who had lost their property their belongings a lot of them their lives the agreement was that Japan was not responsible America agreed read to assume responsibility but due to high literacy rates language barrier between the US Navy and locals no newspaper Telephone Communication Haitian and only a six month window to file claims many were left without even knowing that there was an option for compensation under the Guam meritorious disclaims act of nineteen forty five so you're still seeing this kind of today and it and it ties into modern history as we think about what is owed to to people who are marginalized so until hasn't five this came up again and we had a headed divisive president at this time who is looking looking to reboot the economy post nine eleven and they were slashing any sort of superfluous or what they felt to be extracurricular financial commitments so we're seeing this act get a lot of support in Congress to to start to provide reparations to the island and its people people but his deputy assistant secretary of the Interior for insular affairs David Cohen said that reasonable people might disagree disagree in good faith however about the appropriate level of financial compensation to be paid by the federal government for damages there were caused not by the fault of the United States. It's but rather by the fault of a foreign occupying power seat okay I get. I understand why they would make that argument. Remember minds me of the old quotation you know when elephants wage war only the grass suffers the there is an entire not just one episode episode. There's entire series worth of topics about the the chaos wrought upon this area of the world old these island nations before World War Two after World War. Two you know it also reminds me how here in the US nobody really talks about the US colonization of the Philippines right. There's so much stuff that we forget here and we can't really prove this but it's strange to think a weather Gordon Adventures influence Carter's policy later on definitely inspired him to do stuff right but did he was he thinking of his uncle when he was working with hostage situations stuff like that. We don't know we probably never will unless Jimmy Carter decides to mention it one day yeah we should try. He just had a talk the other day at emory university. We should try to pop in on one and yes just bring this random question. you know something else. That's that's important important thing about in. This is the way that these large nations America England France Germany. All these large countries who call is nations in the past when they AAC caused damages to people who aren't major players in the game but actually are kind of vital to the creation of the wealth of these countries are desiring so so if we look at the enslaved people in America ask and their descendants asking for reparations as a similar situation you can make the argument that well all the confederate nations. They were the ones fighting for slavery. It's see we see that argument comes. Sometimes we also see the argument of well. That was a long time ago where that was previous. Generations doesn't have anything to do with me but we see the the problems that stem institutionalized racism impression of 'cause throughout the world and that's why we have massive inequality today throughout nations and also we have to say of course that this kind of impacts are multi generational. They don't stop just because people die affects the children and their children's children and so John and this okay so this is this is our story. I think this gives us some insight into President Carter former president Carter that would surprise most people know here in Georgia of course we tend to know a little bit more about Carter than the average bear because again he's got the Carter Center in the library here and teaches Sunday school here and speaks at emory here. you know sometimes you can see him at the restaurant but even here in Georgia a lot of people were unaware of the tremendous influence that his uncle had on the young Jimmy Carter Ryan. Thank you so much for returning returning to the show. You know yeah Where can people learn more about your institution work. You guys are doing you can follow us on. INSTAGRAM INSTAGRAM AT GS HUGH UNDERSCORE MHP. That's the Georgia state a Master's program of historic preservation. Heritage Preservation nation is what our programs called but we kind of dabble in all sorts of public history and preservation topics in tastic while you are on the Internet folks this does conclude include our episode but not our show. This story continues. You can be part of it. If you check out our facebook group ridiculous historians you can also find us as as a group and as individuals on Instagram and twitter I am at Ben Bullen on Instagram and I am Ben Bullen H. S. W. on twitter and I am just a Graham Stir. You can find me at how now Noah Brown big thanks to our super producer Casey pilgrim to Alex Williams who composed are track and it's weird because you know now you're in person and usually when we're talking about you just sort of existing in the ether of ideas but your real person you're right here right now. Brian Barry thank you thank you yeah and all his technicolor tie-dyed Glory Nice Call. Thanks man big thanks to Gabe looser our other research associates and compatriot Patriot comrade brother-in-arms whatever you WanNa call it a thanks to Alex Williams who composed our theme thanks to Christopher how students here in spirit thanks to the twister for not showing up once again but I have a feeling that we're going to run on that very soon thanks to Ben for having such a well quaffed a bit of facial hair going on today. It's very very dapper. Looking thanks man This is something that we don't see a lot because this audio podcast but my favorite thing to do nowadays is the flip the the phone the headphones oversight. Yes I look like either. Jordi La Forge cyclops or a little bit like robocop. Maybe yeah yeah there. We go picture. We'll see you next time for more podcasts from iheartradio visit the iheartradio Jio APP apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows this episode of ridiculous history is brought to you by the North American podcast how well do Americans and Canadians. Sean's really get each other. I've always wondered that myself been in north. Americana has the answer when they dig for those very connections and crack open. A few of the cliches is that we have about these two countries that's right no from immersion in indigenous culture around the Great Lakes to the real people who inspired the Tony nominated musical goal come from away which is set in Gander Newfoundland on nine eleven north Americana uncovers surprising stories that connects North Americans from Canada and the US alike yes and along the way they talk to fascinating American and Canadian storytellers from award winning Broadway actress to National Geographic Editors. It's an absolutely fascinating cross-border border conversation sponsored by destination Canada the North Americana podcast spotlights fantastic American storytellers from the US and Canada like unearthing surprising tales that connect Americans and Canadians listed now on all major podcast platforms.

Jimmy Carter Carter Jimmy Carter Ryan Thomas Thomas Watson Gordy Georgia Gordon United States Jimmy Carter Atlanta Japan Casey Ryan Bearish Guam president navy America Ben Canada Great Lakes
1 - Win Iowa

So You Wanna Be President? with Chris Matthews

31:52 min | 10 months ago

1 - Win Iowa

"Friends delegates and fellow Americans. I accept your nomination. So you WANNA be prison. And I'm Chris Matty some hardball on MSNBC. I've watched so many people run for their party nomination but only a few who had to get it Madam Chairwoman and delegates. I have a privilege given few Americans for for all those who believe that our best days are ahead of us. I proudly accept your nomination. You want to be president. This show is about what you have to do to get your nomination. These are the lessons learned from campaigns win. Six episodes six timeless things that separate winners from losers. I'll be joined by campaign veterans. Some have had front row seats as to the most important moments in presidential campaign. History will break down. What work for some candidates and what didn't for others see a wannabe president president? These lessons can help stick around every night. Local police departments across America received hundreds of calls from burglar alarms the vast majority of the time they have no idea whether the alarm Israel all the alarm company can tell them is the motion sensor went off. Simplisafe home security is is different. And it's why I love it if there's a break in simplisafe uses real video evidence to give police an eyewitness account of the crime that means police dispatch up to three hundred fifty percent faster than for a normal burglar alarm. You get comprehensive protection for your entire home outdoor cameras and doorbells alert you to anyone approaching your home. Entry motion a and glass break sensors guard inside plus simply safe protect your home from fires water damage and carbon monoxide poisoning. You can set up your system yourself. No tools needed or simply safe can do it for you. And it's only fifty cents a day with no contracts visit simplisafe dot com slash. So you WANNA you'll get free shipping and a sixty sixty day risk-free trial. You've got nothing to lose. Go now and be sure to go to simplisafe dot com slash. So you WANNA. So they know our show sent you that simplisafe dot com slash slash. So you WANNA see WanNa be president accident. I'm Chris Matthews from hardball on. MSNBC lesson one win Iowa it's the most astounding thing win Iowa and it's nearly a lock you'll get your party's nomination for the Democrats nine eleven nominees one Iowa on the Republican inside more than half. The Iowa caucuses are America's first battleground winning their means. You get America's attention you stand out for voters inside a national spotlight as the election counter races onto New Hampshire and beyond. Aw but Kennedy's haven't always thought winning. I was worth it. The first is so its value. Was Jimmy Carter. He put the Iowa caucuses on the map the next night I'm running for president did Thank you very much in one thousand nine hundred seventy five and nineteen seventy six. Jimmy Carter Carter went all in in Iowa. He needed to outside the south. Georgia governor was unknown to most people and he's up against a crowded more established field to win in Iowa. Jimmy Carter champion something called retail politics. He took US underdog campaign to the people very much. uh-huh Jimmy Hope you'll go to L. A. H. U.. I'm giving what ask talking shooting film of Him. Meeting people shaking hands by name is Jimmy Carter I'm burning for President Gerry Rafferty and was part of Jimmy Carter's campaigns in the early days. I for Georgia governor then for the White House Jerry. Random film shoots created all the campaign. Ads Ed's part of the team. Who dreamed up winning Iowa Strategy? It looked like if we won. I R- we did all the national attention. Who would would all be directed? Ken This guy. Do it again in New Hampshire. It was very clear that they were working. The state and Ah had it all mapped out judy. Woodruff also watched him. He Carter in his early days as a politician. You know her today is anchor and Managing Editor for the PBS Newshour in the Early Nineteen Seventy S. She was a rookie journalist working in Atlanta. I had just gone to work for NBC and I started telling my my bosses at NBC NBC. You got to pay attention to this governor Carter and they looked at me like I had a hole in my head freedom prejudice because your farmer meeting I am apart. Kind of prejudice allies. Jimmy Carter was not a creature of Washington not somebody who they thought you know. They thought thick southern accent. Who who does he think he is and I kept saying to them? You know you really need to pay attention to this guy. He's going being somewhere. Judy Woodruff was right. The Jimmy Carter playbook would go onto become less than one for campaigns win Iowa with retail politics. Climb inside the national spotlight and hang in there all the way to the nomination roots of Jimmy Carter's playbook and Iowa took shape long before his presidential run Carter was then a first time candidate for Georgia governor. He was up against some big time politicians. He needed help Jerry. RAPP was young advertising executive in Atlanta a friend offered him the job on the Carter campaign a fellow by name. Hal Gulliver who was editor of the became editor around. Constitution said Jerry You ought to do Jimmy. Carter's campaign you ought to do the advertising. He's a friend of mine and I said how I can't do that. I just started the advertising agency but then I was driving my car down peach tree on a Saturday and I heard a commercial come on the air and it was a country and western singer singing. Jimmy Carter is name. Jimmy Carter is saying gene. Jimmy Carter is the number one for governor. I almost went off the road. I went to a filling station and I call over and I said he he. Your friend Carter needs help. I told you why jail Raza no just tell him to take the damn. I'M NOT GOING TO I. That's free advice. Advise the following Monday night. I was babysitting. My wife was out and Gulliver calls me up and says Cartridges fired a guy and he's got sixty thousand dollars to spend from now until the camp of Tilly election which is two months away and wants to know how you're going to spend that so I go and the headquarters was a suite at the Plaza Hotel. We're all the political hung out. The door opens and in walks. This Guy Jimmy Carter. And he's with three people and and so they said well what have you got. I said well it needs to do away with all your billboards. And you've got sixty thousand dollars. Put it all on television and we'll follow you around the state and so what's the message and I said there's a man coming to your town. His name is Jimmy Carter. He's running for governor are. They say he can't win. It's not up to them to decide who can win. You decide who can win. Go see him talk to him. Find out what what he has to say better yet. You tell him what you have to say. Silence in the room and the political science professor said this is. It's a disaster. You'd never say you can't win. And I said he's not number one he's fourth. It's not the truth. It doesn't matter. I said well Jimmy. Jimmy's reaction all this chess. He's sitting there watching me and he turned to them and said. Let me talk to this guy. Hi alone I said. And he said of. Don't argue with these folks. These are good folks and I need them. Now let's two year campaign nine. Oh and I fell in love because he believed in you. Yeah we followed him around the stage. We shot footage in became a cart. Trademark you went to the factory gates and he went all over and then he called me a few months later and said we're going to do it again. You are you with me and of course that was the only job I could get in in journalism was the secretary in the newsroom of the ABC affiliate in Atlanta and. They hired me right out of out of Duke I answered the phone clean. The film's empty. The trash and ultimately persuaded them that and I really wanted to report couldn't get a job there but was hired with a CBS station in Atlanta. Cover politics the first assignment I had was covering the Henry County Fight over highways In Georgia but it wasn't long after that Jimmy Carter and others announced they. This was nineteen seventy and Jimmy Carter and others announced. They were running for governor and he had his journey that year. It wasn't the only assignment I had. I covered a lot. I was general assignment but that was where I first met Jimmy Carter. I watched him out on the trail. Met Roseland and really was captivated captivated by the Carter Mystique. If you want to call it that did you get his sense that he could go national that he was that kind of a big time. Big League politician not then but but after he was elected shoe or by the end of that year and I saw him in office and I saw how effective it was. I'm I know the point came watching him a deal with the Georgia legislature. And frankly he didn't have a lot of respect for most of them He worked with anthem but he essentially liked to tell them what to do and what he thought. But that's that was the Jimmy Carter people watched when he was governor honor. Jimmy Carter had bigger plans. So did his closest advisers Hamilton Jordan. Who ran the Carter campaign? Jerry RAPP shoot and others took took the lessons learned from the Georgia races and put their heads together. About the governor's chances in a presidential run. Iowa would be crucial to their national strategy strategy. We told the governor. We wanted to come see him about his future and he said okay so. We got to the governor's mansion. It shouldn't and we laid out why he had the advantage. The South it never had had had a president for one hundred twenty years. You didn't in Count Johnson. Is it West Right. But also he did not get elected the first time. You're not a racist. You can be George Wallace in the South who went through the list of all the things being a governor Watergate was going on and he says well what do you guys WanNa i WanNa do and we said we'll come back and bring you a plan running it all states. This is right after the Nixon sweep deep about governed one forty nine states and he said okay. I'm GONNA do it. And the plan was beat Kennedy. Eddie in the north in New Hampshire and be Wallace in Florida. As of this time. Erin the state that I love surrounded by friends of mine from all over the nation. I'd like announced that I am a candidate for president when he announced for president. Did that. Surprise you at the time he announced I knew he was. I knew for a little for a little bit of time that he was going to run you hat. He would have national politicians. Come to visit him. I remember Hubert Humphrey. I just I just remember parade of Democrats coming through Atlanta. He was on the move. He was trying to be a player in National Democratic Party politics so we knew he had great ambition and the people around him. The young young guys around him did what did you make. Remember a headline of the Atlanta Journal Constitution and said Jimmy who is running for what it's because he didn't have everybody's respect I mean a lot of first of all locally. A lot of people thought it was crazy for a Georgian to run for president. I mean that it just didn't compute. Here was a guy who had been a peanut farmer. You're a yes sure. He had had a progressive term in office But but where were the ingredients that we're going to propel him to the White House else and it just it just didn't add up. I remember when out for president of nineteen seventy four. That was a major headline on that in terms of that it'd be wise Carter announced for president more than a year before Iowa. Judy Woodruff knew he was up against should seek them. Run Aground Campaign for governor as the underdog Aug- outsider at the time. She asked the candidate about his approach. For the seventy six campaign you're still many people from outside the South South Apparently who are a little reluctant to accept the idea of a president from the south. How do you deal with that? Aw I don't be the sexual prejudice still exists out camping all the country. I'M GONNA travel more and talk more and listen to more people and questions Than the other human being this year I started my own campaign. I didn't have any political organization. Not much money. Nobody knew who I was. We began to go from one living room to another one labor hall to another up and down the street back to shift line bobby shops beauty parlors restaurant shaking hands talking to people and Leslie when you saw his campaign style. You talked about your first impression. He was very much. We call retailer one to one. I contact spend some time with the person Bill Clinton was like that a lot of met people that you think that would translate when you had to go national. I would love to tell you Chris that I knew that I had knew that he had some magic. What I knew was that? He was deeply ambitious organized. The people around him and that they had some kind of plan they weren't sharing it early on and you had to take them seriously. They were looking at the country they were looking at moving moving coming out and figuring out a way to get it done. I didn't know that had no way of knowing that we're going to win but I knew that you couldn't just write these folks off off. It was not until Johnny Apple Full of New York Times when out in the countryside in Iowa and talk to people you know teachers and Policemen and and I guess bartenders and others and he sized up what we already knew about our and wrote a headline in The New York Times that the other reporters I have a dream that I might come in I in our they were looking at me as coming in fifth. Oh six because they very seldom got out of Des Moines. They would stay there. I enjoy themselves and talk to each other but he actually went out and and And got opinions from people around the state and he's and he projected. I was going to win which I did. I was just amazed at a lot of people focused attention on me which is very beneficial. That was Jimmy Carter appearing on C. Span recently about the legendary New York Times reporter Johnny Johnny Apple Apple and others on the campaign trail were known as the boys on the bus. Jimmy Carter's Iowa strategy was coming into focus. It was working and a national reporters looked at Judy Woodruff for insights on the underdogs approach to winning elections one voter and it's time those were the glory days of the boys in the bus us. That's when you had the big names Johnny Apple and Broder was just starting really allow them today. Take them seriously because you'd be bumping into them on the bus and elsewhere end. Jim Wooten a horse and he did cover. He wrote a book about it. He had covered him new new in a little bit better. And there were some national reporters who had spent time in Atlanta and there were folks like bill ship local Georgia reporters Atlanta Constitution. Who who knew more about him but even even they didn't have an idea that he was? I mean none of us could know that how far he was ultimately going to go. But we knew there was the ambition and the rest of it But yeah I mean I I remember talking to Johnnie Apple David The beloved Johnny. The Bull of David Broder Early on Because they were curious about him they looked at at him and saw. There was something different but they were trying to figure out what is the. What's the secret ingredient here? And they did talk to us. Those of us who had covered him for a few a year's duty seeking I mean I learned a lot from those guys but you're right they were looking to me in a whole lot of other local all reporters who had covered him for some clues walls built around Washington. And we feel like we can't can't quite get through to guarantee the people of this country government the sensitive to our needs we can understand endon controlled this competent well managed efficient economical purposeful and also government which we can be proud. Jimmy Carter a leader for a change ads like this. When we're new for presidential campaigns? They showed the candidate on the campaign trail. They captured captured everything. The handshakes the conversations the speeches Gambier Jerry ration and his film crew pioneered the approach Wjr and turn their footage into campaign ads for Iowa television. The Myth was you. Don't do television in Iowa. It's all on the ground meeting. Weren't around the state but we had a guy running around the state but it just happens that he was we brought her own television crew with them and we're shooting film of meeting people shaking ads by name. Is Jimmy Carter burning for president so it looked like if we could win Iowa we could. It would help us win New Hampshire. So why was it important. It Carter was known for shaking hands with lots of people. Thousands of thousands of people shake. It has with staying overnight tonight and their houses sleeping on their couches. That's right why was it important to do that on film. And what was the connection between him retailing as we say in politics and then you wholesaling going on television basically the same thing. Carter shaken hands because it was bringing the message to all the people that he didn't shake hands with this is multiplying. It was multiplying balanced budgets. I believe in screening out. All limited programs programs are long past. Serve that useful. He was perfect on television. But also we had sponsored him talking about the issues. People were saying wasn't talking about the issues so I did five minutes spots as I said I said if anybody can spend five minutes with Jimmy they're gonNA vote for choice to be made between green government. Private industry visit equal choice. I go with a private industry. This is a kind of concept that is generally considered conservative. But at the same time I believe in human being an equal opportunity and freedom and equality of opportunity. And I'll fight. aww If you agree that government should be sent you agree with Jimmy Carter on this issue. Vote for him. You know where this comes you laughing Africa because gene McCarthy Senator McCain who ran for president to what he said the way to become an issues candidate is the use the word issued. It's over no he set and say I'm running on the issues. I'm an issues candidate as low as you say the word issues. The people think you're in issues candidate tape right so issues candidate meeting people like it very much I also Atlantic. You'll remember. Ah Jimmy Carter Criss Cross Iowa. He was running against a big field. Before this year's campaign nineteen seventy six was the largest democratic field. Modern history craters playbook dictated the importance of winning in Iowa. Did so by breaking away from that. Democratic pack candidates were really not after delegates here in Iowa what the candidates were after was a boost some momentum to carry them into the primary battles ahead and a big boost. It does exactly what Jimmy Carter got here did you get to cover him on the ground And I would watch them doing that door to door in some of it. I saw some of it in in in the fall of seventy five When we spent a few days traveling the state with him driving around watching him interviewing people whose where ah who had let him stay in their homes overnight who were completely smitten with Jimmy and Rosalynn Carter? It was like they were longtime friends. It was like the Jimmy Carter Magic Nick. He just managed to win people over. He worked it door to door person to person coffee group by Coffee Group. They knew who the key Democrats were that they had to win over on their to their side and they had they worked. Those people really are yeah and and those folks were already very loyal by the time I got there. And what Tober seventy those folks were already very loyal to him and talked about him like he was you know they. They knew he was GonNa win. Political Science Question. Okay how did he distinguished himself from the Liberal Paki ran against without basically describing himself as not a liberal not a progressive. I think he was just very clever in the way he talked about it. I mean I'm sure there was some formula behind it. It was just conservative enough on some things and liberal enough on others that it worked and then there was the overlay of the personality. You know in the big toothy grin and the hair falling in his eye and You know the whole the whole story and the fact you know that he and Rosalyn didn't they. They didn't put on airs. I mean they were themselves and they and they never hid the fact that they were from plains Georgia small town. They weren't poor and they you. They didn't hide that they made the most of that. These were all the ingredients of Jimmy. Carter Iowa they were playbook. I'm honest I'm a former businessman. An engineer and a Navy veteran I'm not from Washington I'm a little bit liberal and a little bit conservative and it's nice to meet you. Carter took that message. All voters bought it. Reporters Porter's took note on January nineteenth nineteen seventy six. The date. For Iowa's caucuses the Jimmy Carter playbook was put to the test I jerry and others on the counter campaign. Were already pivoting to New Hampshire and beyond. Did you think you were going to win in Iowa. Yes and when you thought you'RE GONNA win. What did you plan well? Every all the candidates were going to offer election for the night of that and we thought we were GonNa Win Anyway so we decided that he would be in New York and the hotel watching it because that was before all the networks further. Today's show and the other shows would going to Iowa. They didn't do that and so the results came in we were undecided was first but of all the real people. Jimmy Carter was very much the winner her and so the next morning he was on the today. Show and then you head. It didn't New Hampshire. Has Its Hampshire here. Are the first political returns earns for the year Nineteen seventy-six yesterday about fifty thousand Democrats in Iowa met in caucuses in homes churches and fire houses to choose delegates for their state. Eight party convention. Most of them are still uncommitted. Thirty seven percent but former Georgia governor. Jimmy Carter did extremely well with twenty seven percent of the delegate preferences references more than twice as many Indiana Senator Birch by and three times as many as Fred Harris the former Oklahoma. Senator Carter was in New Hampshire today grinning from ear to ear. His victory yesterday was great symbolic importance. There were those today who were using the words front runner to describe Carter. My name is Jimmy Carter running for president. Jimmy Carter went on the win the Democratic nomination his playbook had worked I asked duty. Would riff about what it all means for candidates. Today I mean for me. The big lesson is somebody can come out of nowhere or what appears to be nowhere and win that Just because we don't know whoever it is in Washington and they don't they aren't connected to everybody everybody we know on Capitol Hill and in the press they can still rocket make it to the top four except for a couple of cases were Gephardt one out there in and local guy won there. In Ninety two the winner wins it's an astounding meaning winning an Iowa. What do you think it is about that I? It's the first stop. It just seems to give a tremendous gust of wind behind do ever wins and every election people say. Oh it's not going to happen again you know surely early a place like this can't be the bellwether for an election and it hasn't been for both parties I mean we know the Republicans haven't Haven't seen the you the you know the. They're winners in Iowa. Haven't always gone on to win the nomination but it Chris I think it's I think Democrats really do WanNa Fall in love with with their nominee with their the person they're gonNA vote for for president in Iowa gives you a place to fall in love. You're going door to door people WANNA meet you in in. Somebody's is living room or kitchen or coffee. The table at a coffee shop They WanNA shake your hand. They WanNa look you in the eye. You know it's gotTa that'd be somebody who who believes what you believe but it also has to be somebody you are personally comfortable with and Jimmy Carter managed to win there again in nineteen eighty against Ted Kennedy a total upset again and a friend of mine out there. Assessor WHO's working for Carter said well the last person leaving des Moines. Please turn out the lights in his name. He's still around. Let me ask you the last question. Can you skip Iowa and win the dominates the Democratic Party. I wish they were smart enough to tell you the answer Chris I I think it's very tough but I don't. I don't rule anything out. I think we are in a different moment right now with with President President trump. He's somebody is you know very well who generates incredible loyalty and incredible distrust and dislike like and worse. It is hard to imagine how somebody who hasn't laid the groundwork who hasn't been Athens day after day after day and put in You know the the hard labor in Iowa and New Hampshire and the other states is GonNa make it but if if these candidates don't look strong coming out out of these early contests. I could see the possibility that the voters take a look and say okay. What does this guy I have to offer? So it's a maybe it judy woodruff who had a front row seat. Jimmy Carter's win in Iowa. Today she's anchor and managing editor the PBS news is out. Jerry Raff soon ran advertising for Jimmy Carter in Iowa and went on to direct communications in the Carter White House so you want to be president. Here's a preview of less than two year. After a year. Voters want to see if candidates can show some spontaneity something beyond the talking points that the lights are on in. Somebody's home. You know one of the parts of politics that we forget about is you have to show that you are on an even Keel your well-balanced you get the joke you're good natured. We may give you the nuclear codes someday if you win. We'll explain next time. I'm Chris Matthews. He's with hardball on. MSNBC thanks so much for listening. Hey Guys Willie geist here. This week on the Sunday. Sit down. PODCAST I get together with Golden Globe. Love winning actor you and McGregor to talk about a prolific career that includes his latest role in the Superhero Film. BIRDS OF PREY. Get that conversation now for free wherever you download your podcasts.

Jimmy Carter Carter Jimmy Carter Iowa president Jimmy New Hampshire Georgia Carter Jimmy Carter Criss Cross Iowa Atlanta Democrats WanNa Judy Woodruff Jimmy Hope Ted Kennedy Chris Matthews Washington MSNBC Carter White House
20VC: Arlan Hamilton: "We Have Come For Cake, Not The Crumbs", Arlan's Plan To Return $1Bn in 10 Years, Why Arlan Plans To Giveaway or Invest 90% of Her Wealth & What The LP Class Can Do To Ensure More Under-Represented Managers Get Funded

The Twenty Minute VC

36:24 min | Last month

20VC: Arlan Hamilton: "We Have Come For Cake, Not The Crumbs", Arlan's Plan To Return $1Bn in 10 Years, Why Arlan Plans To Giveaway or Invest 90% of Her Wealth & What The LP Class Can Do To Ensure More Under-Represented Managers Get Funded

"It's about damn time. This probably is the most anticipated show that ever has been waiting for, and as I said bound downtime say, Hey, we have joining me on twenty state. We have you guessed it all in Hamilton founder and managing partner backstage capital seed fund this paved the way investing exclusively in startups that led by underrepresented founders by stage capitals also expanded them moral and now have backstage accelerated working with companies across four CDs last month mark even gave six million dollars to invest in underestimated founders all and was here investments from one. Author of it's about damn time. If you'd like to invest with Orland, you can check out backstage crown dot com with over two thousand accredited and non accredited investors. They just completed that safe deal and one million dollars raised within three months of launch. I do stay Hughes. Thank you mark Cuban Christie pits in of islanders some fantastic content suggestions pre this episode happening. I so appreciated those but before we move into the show stay I'm sure you've heard about it but my word I love a product cool. KALSA Carter simplifies how stops investors manage equity camp tables, and Gabonese. Go do call two dot com slash two zero. To get temps an off more than eight, hundred, thousand employees and shareholders US Carter to manage hundreds of billions of dollars neck, and Carson now offers fund administration. So you can see real time data in the platform with Causes Team Experience Fund accountants go you call dot com for slash two zero. Two temps and off, and if you've been listening to our show, you've probably heard of Bryce the first corporate card startups with no personal guarantee or credit check up to twenty times higher credit limits, traditional cards plus rewards like three is when manageable apple products and seven points on tools I zoom and slack braces helped thousands of companies scale foster to reach that potential this month there standing their special offer to our listeners are for the brightest called by November thirtieth with the code. Twenty. All spell down to receive a five hundred dollar credit after spending thousand dollars even better. You can also apply for Bryce cash a bank canton with unlimited free wire and ach transfers with no minimum balance required to account you can apply for an account stay at Bradstock, calm and lost by no means least culture and really changed the game in terms of fund ofman and finance amplitude is for product amplitude helps the top project growth themes pay companies like pay pal instant Palette, on my favorite Atlassian Properties for instance that convert retain customers with that product intelligence platform you and your team. Will really be able to better understand news behavior ship great experiences false to entertain more customers. They become the gold standard in our noise takes for teams asking what is happening in the digital products. Why uses converting and what do we build next see for yourself how companies like twitter door, Nash, and Cisco Build for growth using, amplitude and visit amplitude dot com slash two, Zero v discounted scholarship plans are available for qualifying offer you have to check them out but not quite enough for me. So now I'm very excited town David to all in Hamilton founder and managing partner backstage capital. You have now arrived at your destination all we finally made it. I'm so excited this upset count. Thank you enough for joining me. Stay. Thanks so much for having me here. This is a big moment for me. You're making my week here. Why that is. Venus now as I said, I'm sure that we finally made this happened then so I do want to start. On tell me a lot of people we have on the show have very similar backgrounds collision, even asking the question of how you got into them yet. So this one I think is going to be a little bit different say torch me what was your to vanish and how did you come to found by stage? Yeah. It's a little different I. Guess we'll people say that about themselves. But I have any financial or investing background I grew up in Dallas, Texas, and for the first thirty years of my life I kind of bounced around the country at different companies I started I started a music magazine in my twenties. I started a blog that was read by fifty thousand people. A month called your daily lesbian moment. The magazine was called Interlude magazine and had a lot. Of Really Fun things I worked on I built my way from indie music tour managing all the way to arena level touring as a production coordinator in road manager, and all that was a lot of fun but I didn't make much money and I didn't pay the bills really. So I had a lot of housing and security had a lot of food insecurity especially in my thirties and. Around thirty, which was about a decade ago around thirty is when I started seeing more and more about this place called Silicon Valley this magical land call Silicon Valley and it was mostly through like seeing stickers of airbnb on Ashton. Cultures. Laptop or hearing Justin Bieber Talk, about investing Ellen Degeneres hearing through the grapevine in West Hollywood that she had been investing in startups and of course I knew. Some of these companies but I didn't really understand how they worked. So I, got curious and I wondered while it was on the road I wonder why are these celebrities and their manager's making these fifty thousand dollars so investments in these tiny companies in some place called. Valley I was following their curiosity and it made me more curious because I thought follow the money of the moneymakers and You might see something really interesting. So it started out as me just being curious learning more about it. Then I decided I wanNA start a company, a Tech Company and I haven't told many people this but I was it's not gonNA keep it secret but I just haven't been asked about it but I'll tell you I originally wanted to start Juliet Juliet, a dating site for women and I had already done a pilot of it a Beta for it had gone well, and so I wanted to really launch it and it was going to be very different and all of that. So I was excited about that in the research of how you start a company I started learning. Yeah. Maybe I'll need to raise some money because they certainly didn't have any money to speak of. So that's when I started talking to companies and investors and I came across the statistic that ninety percent of Inter capital investment money into startups was going to white men. Now, I don't know if you know this Harry, but I met a white man. I am a black woman and the Lgbtq community I am a gay woman and I didn't see myself in those statistics. We are a blip. On, the radar so that's when things change. That's when it became less of. Let me see about dabbling in doing this business if it'll make me some money as if it'll be fun to wait a second I think I found my calling I think I found the thing that is drawing me towards it because instead of trying to raise capital for a company I can try to raise. Capital to invest in other people like me who have been overlooked in our talent in our skill determination and grit. Yes has been devalued undervalued and imagine if so many people that I know that I'm surrounded by have done so much with so little imagine what they could do with more and what if there were one investor and then that became dozens that became hundreds and so on. But it started with one investor that every black founder in the country call when they started a company I wondered what would happen then that? So it was a lot of questions in my mind that sort of sparked this for me, and then I became obsessed with the quest of finding the answers I love that in terms kind of relentless quest for knowledge around a question that Chatchai? She said you said kind of about doing so much with little in those incredible people do it in your said your incredible because you see times him people way before anyone else does and you've done this time and time again I guess the question is Russian my own won't you look for in founders but I guess we'll leading indicators fees because someone has not great that Hunga, relentless. Resourcefulness. You have to be a part of it. A lot of it is built up over time. You definitely established relationships with founders and it doesn't always figured out in that first fifteen minutes I do what I call pattern matching grant. I do the same thing that other investors do the data that they are used to in their profiles at they're used to just apply that to mine. Lived experience and so someone who demonstrates either in our first meeting our across several meetings or having conversations who has really rare combination of being passionate but being grounded. So one without the other I think is a non-starter because you can have the passion in the world and just be really unwieldy with that or you can be really grounded and not taking chances and not have much vision. and Go after what your vision is. But if you can find someone which often do who has both at the same time and then on top of that, they have something in their background doesn't have to be great on paper doesn't have to be the right school or the right foreign company. But if they have something in the background, maybe they worked for their family at their family. Company washing dishes, but they watched their parents for ten or twenty years build something from nothing something like that or maybe they were an operator at someone else's company for several years and they never really got there just too. But they can tell you everything there is about that lane and to me when you have that combination of passion that sort of grounded nece and then the skill the. The, proximity to what they're working on on top of that, you have someone who treats people. Well, you can tell how people treat people by having a conversation with them. Especially, if you're not a situation where they have to interact with other people and not just you because, of course, as an investor going to most likely treat you well but I like to, before Kobe hit I'd like to meet people in environments where people were around the maybe even more stressful environments like summit tour out. For a meal, how they treat the wait staff how do they treat people as they're walking by I? Mean honestly these are considered soft skills but you're going to be working with these people for years and years and years, and there's no shortage of founders no shortage of ideas and companies, but it's very rare to find someone who encompasses everything. So when I patterned match, I'm looking across the table to see myself. Are you hungry not thirsty as I call it I love that Hungary north I. Kinda. moshing Aaron maybe kind of applying that to the strategy, your public figures day and I. There's a lot that people will think they know about There's a lot more behind the scenes as well as I guess when it comes to the strategy side of things and that's A fundamental who maybe not obviously make it I and how do you think about those? Yeah. I think a lot of people may misconstrue what my intentions are like what my goals are and why I'm doing the things that I'm doing I think a lot of that comes from the fact that I I am kind of all over the place you see me all over social media. You see me on different magazines and different headlines and the majority of that I mean, ninety nine percent of any press is inbound. It's coming from me. I also say no to I would say. Eighty. percent of what comes to me so I either say, no twitter a pass it on to someone else so I think it's for these different layers of this five dimensional chess than I'm playing maybe even more than that where my main goal every single day when I wake up, I think about how catalyze other people especially, how do I catalyzed black and brown founders who can then be the generators of generational wealth for their families and so on in their groups and I look at this in decades and not in quarters and I think that a lot of times because. People just catch the headliner, the catch, the cool instagram post or they catch me saying something isolated. They may think, and again I'm saying this because it feels weighted also I've heard it may think that I'm like trying to be famous or I'm trying to get some sort of clout which is very funny because I named my fund backstage capital, for reason, but the strategy around it though is I looked at in two, thousand, hundred, Eighteen I. Believe it was summer two, dozen eighteen we were in Ireland is a team we had worked with a summit in a company to fly. All of our team to Ireland to really experience it amazing inspirational summit there, and we had a meeting, and in that meeting I said look we have three pillars that I think we should adhere to sort of the order in which we do things. The first pillar was vision the second was execution and the third was amplification. Now, the vision was me by myself ten years ago, five years ago just saying what does the world look like in five or ten years and beyond and what place do I want to have in that and what is backstage looked like potentially and We continue to innovate on that vision. There's so many more people involved now that we share this vision and we move forward the second piece that was, of course, obviously, the most important piece is the execution of that. 'cause you can have an idea you can hype something up but if you don't execute well on it, what is really the point and so we were heads down for so so so many years on the execution I getting to one hundred companies in less than four years, which is insane. Right getting to one hundred companies because we saw five thousand companies because. We only invested into percent of what we saw because there were so much talent out there that had been overlooked and we invested in one hundred that we felt were our tribe. Then it was about what happens next. So we launched a four city to country accelerator and we invested in twenty four companies and had an application process and the whole process was so different than what people were used to taking the best from Y combinator and techstars, and others infusing our own take on it taking what we thought would be best for those companies and taking their feedback iterating so. This, idea of executions what we do every single day. So many of us have had part making backstage and then the amplification I wanted just set in that moment in two thousand eighteen with my team I wanted to set the fact that amplification was going to need to be as important as the vision the execution if we were going to have the impact that I wanted us to have all want us to have you can use now backstage as a case study. So it can be an it's bubble not how the amplification have the execution being bubble in effect thousands of. Companies and people or have the implementation piece to it and affect millions in spread far and wide to me. That is why I do the things that I do very strategically. I also have seven income streams and I have a vision for having my own wealth. Don't have it yet, but I have a vision for it so that I can then continue to feed back into the ecosystem. My goal is to give away or to invest ninety percent of my wealth over my lifetime kinloss. There's a couple of norm that he said there about going to being strategic rob Kinda is. On how you spend your time all I would love to sign him as good as you at being. So effective in deciding how I spend my time I, suck at it. So how many? In, want to say yes to you I wanted to say not and this could be a magazine you got foam we'll debate. About but it could be a magazine request or it could be a new strategic direction accelerations be running whatever that may be. How do you just say? Yes, you. Say Not. Let's an art not a science I base it on boundaries I think turning forty and twenty twenty. I turned forty October thirtieth I. Think it's helping me status boundaries that I never had before especially in my twenties and most of it is predicated on your personal boundaries and then on top of that, it's what has the most impact per outsor-. A pound for pound how do you measure it and so it's an art, not a science. No one way to do it but I say, is this going to make me look really good but not have really any other outcomes for anybody else if it is something that is going to be fun for me I'm going to get a lot of praise for it and a lot of attention for it but it literally. Has No other good outcome. It's almost like choosing between the right foods to eat does fuel your body. This is fuel our mission or does it not or is it fatty? Is it just excess and so that's how I look at things if it's only going to affect me if it's only going to benefit me off the table as just plain and simple I don't have any time for it and I have no use. For it but if it's going to amplify our message if it's going to attract more and more great founders to us, if it's going to attract capital for those founders in for us as a organization if going to make someone feel good about themselves and inspire them to create companies to keep this going well beyond me the book for instance, it's about damn time. The book was for just that to inspire I often say That the book is not so much about me as it is about the reader and that has been fed back to me multiple times I look at things you know who may have ten things and five me and I say well, I'm going to choose two or three of those things and it really put a weight system on it and it just takes time to perfect and I don't know if ever get perfect at. About different income streams I often think can I found kind of relationships to money I transporting was that it was very much about money and I thought you know when you have X. amount of money then you'll be happy and reason number by any means but. With the more money I have wishes I noticed very But Am I. Guess my question is, how do you think about your relationships money coming in as many different jobs growing up nor outing as much as on my investing and then having seven different income streams now, how do you think about that relationship to money custody? Yeah. My relationship with money is that I don't have any reverence for it. It doesn't control. Me Doesn't impress me it is simply a tool and for so long because I grew up poor because most of my adult life eighty, five percent of my life has been in poverty live below the. Poverty. Line for that amount of time and have been around people in the same circumstances. Even if had really cool jobs, they've been far and few between because of that I used to hate money i. used to hate the way it made my mom cry used to hate the way it kept me from being able to have nice clothes, and so people would make fun of me are have my hair different things and I was a kid I used to hate money and I think subconsciously I used to think if I could have a lot of money I can control it, and then I'll get back out of the be. My revenge to have money and thankfully that no longer fits into anything. That's part of my ethos. I mean, for the past five years up to a decade I now think of money as it's strictly a tool I've seen money I've have proximity to money personally. Okay. Do well I do okay I can provide for myself for my wife for my close family I love being able to do that. That's a beautiful thing but I'm not rolling in the dough right but I do believe I do know that over the next decade I will amass vast amounts of wealth of personal wealth. It's just a given to me in the. Same Way I knew that was going to invest in one hundred companies by twenty twenty and since I've seen people are wealthy I know hundreds. Now of investors who are millionaires or billionaires have conversations with billionaires on a weekly basis, it just has no control over me I could lose it all I could gain it all and I would be the same person and I've seen it. I don't even have to wonder because I've seen it happen cannot ask him. We said this before the show you mentioned off being an Alpine now in heels funds I've done incomparable. This is on the I never would be doing riding in l.. When you buy and the Johnny been on building by stage building income streams. The question that I have is, do you take a moment step back yo wow that's incredible. I'm really proud of myself noted America but I'm proud of myself and how do you bounce between that without could have posing too much I talk about this in my book it's about Damn Time. Because, I want others to kind of take on a little bit of my confidence if they're lacking any, I am proud of myself for many things. Usually, it is a very introverted alone kind of thing where I will take stock and I will say, wow, how did you get here? Sometimes I'll be walking around my neighborhood. I'll be flying my mother somewhere or he'll? Be An interesting situation I'll say, how did I get here? How did it go from sleeping on the floor of the airport to being able to just provide so much for so many different people not just immediate family and friends but so many people maybe I haven't even met and I do take pride in that and I have no reservations in taking pride in. That because we're here for what eight hundred years if we're lucky, we have this finite amount of time. Hopefully, we are good people I mean everybody's hero in their own story. But hopefully, we're good people. We have the best intentions and we go out there and execute every day and we give give give what is the issue then with saying to yourself or maybe you Know celebrating those small wins I think that especially women and especially people of Color we are kind of trained. This is not to say that white men or not because obviously, we're having this conversation but I think a lot of us are trained depending on how we grew up or trained to think out. You're being too boastful or you're not allowed to experience that. Pride. It's too much and even sometimes religion play that role enough I say that it is a little bit of fuel because. So much of this is not great. I mean I had to delete my twitter APP from my phone recently because I was getting not just trolls who didn't know me but people who did who make it their life's goal every day to put. Me Down to take away from what I'm doing even though it's so obvious that it has impact. We get so much of the bad I mean I would say maybe an hour out of every day is like this headlining were stuff and the rest of it is just stress and worry worrying about your employees insurance and worrying about your family's health all of those. Things I say we embrace those small wins and we celebrate them, and now there's a difference between that and that's all you do it flipping the script and you're only celebrating but you're not executing I. Think you get into dangerous territory if you can believe your own hype if you can believe the hype that people are saying about you, I don't believe that I'm pretty. Humbled by my wife by my mother on a daily basis. So I'm pretty good. Their ego check for sure does the hate as he really hurt me and honestly I kind of ruins my day when I got even one horrible to the hate is how you like what advice would you have all I need it? Yeah we're human. So yes, they do hurt certain. Types hurt more than others. What hurts me more than anything is when a black founder or a black person who is not necessarily an entrepreneur but observing says something like I'm trying to do this for the clouds or I am not authentic or not who I say I am and they claw at the work that I do and they've never met me they don't know. Me Or they know me but they're saying it behind my back and that happened often as well and of course, I hear about it. So of course, those things they hurt me but what I try to let them get to me so what happens is I'll have a moment I'll have let's say it's five minutes or an hour and I'll accept that I'm human. It's okay to feel this and it is going to be bummed out about. But then that same thing that we talked about before about that price would it kicks in and I say, well, let me think about the things that I've done. Let me think about all the things I've done not only in the last five years, but in the last five hours let me. Think about the things that I've accomplished for other people and for myself and then let me weigh that against us. One person's opinion of me who most likely does not know me and does not walk in my shoes and how much weight can I really give what they have just said, and then once I really kind of frustrate me not the words themselves but. I'm like Arlen what you thinking why are you doing this? Get to you as like the random comment from someone who has like four followers and they have like fifty letters in their names and you're like, what would you ever give any credence to what they just said. So what I have said recently, I say it with the due respect and so whoever needs respect? I gave it to them. I say there's a lot of opinion about me. I am happy to hear that opinion from the person who has accomplished as much as I have or is doing the work that we're doing at backstage capital. If you have not or are not kindly take several seats and come back to me when you've accomplished that thing because it's just. Like Brennan Brown says I'm not gonNA listen to someone who is not in the arena with, and of course, it's not always easy to do that. But Harry, I mean if you think about this podcast, you inspire people with your own personal story and with this podcast you have done. So for years on top of that, you didn't just say on the sidelines and say I want to absurd which would have had so much merit. You also said I'm going to also invest in founders and catalyzed founders that I think needs to be catalyzed anytime. Someone is coming at you online with a little foams just remind yourself what you've done in the last five years and yes. In the last five hours because one knows you're better the needed. I mean that's kind of redesigning I'm really do appreciate not to buy ruthless. He used the to get into investing, I wanted to be in that arena but I really means low. I'm going to ask you know when you look back at lost his journey the hat when he thinks the next hat like you said there about you call and see a world where. You don't have a huge amount of wealth when you think about the next hat I mean this is kind of put a bold question to ask a tough one. What does not like you have milestones we rely in two years time I WANNA do tanning salaries I, WanNa do ten thousand come whatever that company number as you have like milestones for what you, Wanna Achieve Meeting, Ford's don't do the very close milestones because life has so many other things in mind for us as we can see what this year, we don't even know what November is going to look like. Right. So I don't do the incremental goals do say and it's very easy for me right now, the from forty to fifty and what I believe is that the Next decade I will amass the majority of my wealth. I have a goal for myself to return at least a billion dollars in capital and the different ways that I do is not just out of one fun here at one thing there. But of billion dollars returned to LP's in to myself into our employees over the next ten years is a goal I've set. For Myself. So that I can walk towards that and it's just a way again to sort of keep me balanced and measured, and it's fun to think about besides that there's no way to quantify into even guess what impact outside of capital the existence of backstage is going to have, and I say that with again with pride and with humility at the same time the. Fact is whether you like it or not whether you like me or not the fact is that the work that we do it backstage has changed the game in Richard Capital and will continue to do. So even if we were to take our foot off the pedal today, if we were to drop the mic today, there's an impact that is indelible and cannot be. Reversed, and to think that we feel internally, we are just getting started. I can imagine what the next ten years might look like what I'm just. So excited to see that and I'm excited to have many many more ventures with my friends and my family and my extended family who are those who we've invested in and I cannot wait to see them those investments that. We've made those as hundreds of founders who are the true headliners to our backstage continue to disrupt, dismantle, and disprove everything that may have been on people's minds about underestimated founders. I'm going to have the best seat in the house for that for the next ten years. How exciting that I totally agree that you changed the game even if you did put your foot. Off The gas still be kind of changed incredibly I. Guess The question is like, what would you like to see the venture community do that with catalyze, accelerate of the incredible what you've done it could be out sat number of investments to underrepresented founders could be diversification of partnerships one This would change the game celebrate all that I've done. So many is but first. Thing is we're still somehow black founders lat next founders etc are still put into this bucket of like US versus them other HR charity, etc steel in two, thousand twenty I just can't get over that. So if that sentiment if that changes and win that changes, that's the true change happens. But on top of that in order to make that happen, it is catching. Up to the hundred and thirty billion dollars that was put into venture capital two, thousand eighteen in the united, states alone where black women received two, hundred, fifty, million of that when that changes when we are represented with demographics in the United States, versus the amount of capital that black women are getting right so more like eight percent of all venture capital is going to. Black women rather than point. Oh. Oh, two or whatever the stupid number is those are the types of things that have to change and where that happens is at the L. P. level. That is why I have started making LP investments quietly for the past two years continue to do so I've recently said yes I'm going to invest in one hundred emerging managers by. Twenty thirty in the next decade and again, that's just one more thing. But it can't be done alone and I certainly know that there are hundreds and hundreds of out there who are working on this. So it's about capital being distributed equally and fairly based on demographics. It's about LP's finally coming out of the darkness and really putting their foot down starting to happen I. It already where LP's major corporations are finally getting it. Then saying we need to put real dollars behind don't come to me with chrome when we came for the cake, don't do that to us because we deserve so much more, and then on top of that, even beyond venture I, think the angel investing movement, the Zebra Movement versus Unicorn Movement, all of those things. are going to come together and create this more equal playing field where it's no longer backstage has a fund for underrepresented founders and that equals black and brown founders. It's more like I don't have to have backstage in order for you to see me I get to have age I. Love that in terms of became for the cake crumbs ninety, not such a good lawyer. Before the quake five, you mentioned see continuously throughout they strap. The question is like over the journey over the team believes birds we'll have been some of the biggest from building lessons for you when it comes to building stages the institution that it is today and I still think of us as such the underdog minority where the institution that are entity that you think of, but it has been one learning experience. After the other we went from one person me with a backpack in a dream to three or four people who believed. In me and really took pay cuts that you couldn't imagine to having more than forty people across two countries just a few months later to build the accelerator that we built and now down back to five or so people with multiple layoffs through Cova even before covert having resource issues, we've always been resource-strapped. So there have been lessons like that all throughout this journey reversal been lessons about how I am as a leader, what my strengths and weaknesses are it's daily growing in education for me and I do set an intention for myself. And have high expectations for myself and continue to nurture that I've learned that I can't do everything I can't be everything for everyone. This is something internal that I have a have a savior complex. So I've learned that having that it doesn't really play well when you have employees because you have to make decisions that are based on other metrics rather than your heartstrings in that case. So there's been so much I. Think I've also learned that I'm very resilient and that I do have vision I can't see around corners and that. I should not shrink myself in any way when I know that that to be true cast in terms of the emergency, the teams getting to forty I didn't know is quite that much and then you know the layoffs louder always incredibly tough especially with a savior complex on me how did you manage dot and how did you deal with Sasha incredibly tough time what happened over and over again? So it wasn't like it was his big event, right? It was like it happened in waves every few months something else would hit us we've. Never had the correct amount of resources compared to what we're building and I also scale for the moment and also scale ahead of time to go where the puck is going, and so some of it, I have to say some of the lay offs and some of the downsizing was planned because it was about building this infrastructure for one, hundred fifty or so companies in a short amount of time that infrastructure is so important top of that building four city accelerator. So there was a lot of planning in that a lot of. Other people having to do with that but it was I I would say in starting in two thousand and nineteen is it was at its lowest for me personally because it seemed like every month we were laying someone off and a lot of these forty or so people they were contract. So it wasn't like we were all kind of everything laid off some people were just having their contracts canceled or postponed, but it was every single person had come to backstage as friends and family, and we just had our fifth year anniversary just. Recently September fifteen and so many people who had worked it backstage came to this will meet up and I got to see them and we were able to talk through email and we keep up with so many people started thinking of backstage as less of a company or set of companies that employs people lays off people, etc, etc, and more like a university where hopefully we are stepping stone for you. You graduate from backstage into something even bigger and bolder for yourself whenever that time they come and I think that so many of. Our past employees and current employees feel the same way when lesson is the more I talk to the team and beyond work for that day is the more we talk to each other the more I learn so so much about what they're thinking feeling and some of my preconceptions are laid to rest because you get to kind of pull from what they're really feeling about it and a lot of the time you will get negative course because you meet that feedback but a lot of times you'll get such positive that you never knew. I totally agree and I love that perspective in terms of being the universe you eat graduated out of. and. So I. I'm nasty kind of analogy I do want to move into my favorite that autumn, which is the great fire around. So shoot statement, and then you hit me with your immediate ready to roll. Komo in ready to rock and roll and a little scary ready to fine. That's why we have editing them. I know one on she does a quick. Never. That tattle tell me what's the favorite book and why it changes often but right now it's still what I know for sure by Oprah Y. MONTH EVERY QUARTER I can listen to it or read it and find something new that I relate to its growing with me and vice versa. It's the hottest element of your with backstage today the hardest managing my expectation and my vision with the lack of resources that we have in the real world. What's the biggest misconception people have about you that? You would like to change big misconception is that I am fame hungry. It's absolutely the opposite of that in anyone who knows me well knows that it is based on strategy I spend most of my time alone or with my wife what are the biggest mistakes he found mate when raising I think founders skip steps they skip steps because they are looking. At perhaps headlines or someone else as an example, but they don't dig in to see how that company that they like so much got to where they are. So I think there's an element of research and development that is often skipped. That could be a month six months a year that would make all the difference in companies. What would you like? To change about the mechanics of the venture ecosystem today. I think that LP's should have mandates where especially those who are endowments and pensions should have mandates that say that since so many underrepresented people are paying into those funds. The funds that are paid out to managers are percentage has to go to certain groups that paid into it when I say SAS. Positive comes to your mind I'll go back to Oprah I think Oprah. Successful person is still figuring it out including Oprah. But when I look at success is h cheese had decades and decades of an amazing career and has made immeasurable impact around the world in her life, and she gets to enjoy still today. I think that's very successful final one of the Nice findings hold for you and for backstage paint that picture for me next five years I think we're building our assets under management. I Think we're GONNA do a big leap in our assets under management I. Think you'll see that over the next couple of years starting with next couple of years, we'll do more partnerships with major corporations and will invest in more and more founders at the earliest stages and support them as if it was the first time as an investment and we'll continue to have our impact on ecosystem. All listen as I said I've wanted. In Times I'm thrilled that we could do it and thank you so much for joining me stay. Thank you so so much has been fun. I absolutely loved making that all in. If you'd like to see more from all and you can find on twitter at all and was hair. If you'd like to hear more about historic by the book, it's about Damn time. It's a fantastic read. So I really do recommend that will severely lights more from us behind the scenes you count on instagram. At Age stubbings nine, hundred, ninety, six with TV's I always loved see that before we leave each day they I'm sure you've heard about it but my word, I love a product called Carter Carter simplifies how startups investors managed accuracy Chart Cam tables and get away shins. To Dot com forward slash to`serve. To get ten percent off than eight, hundred, thousand employees and shareholders us. Carter, to manage hundreds of billions of dollars and Carter now offers fund administration. So you can see real time data in the Carter. PLATFORM WITH CAUSES TEAM EXPERIENCED FUND ACCOUNTANTS GO JAKARTA DOT COM slash two zero visa to get ten percent off and if you've been listening to our show, you've probably heard of Bryce the first corporate card for start ups with no personal guarantee or credit. Jack Up to twenty. Times. Higher credit limits and traditional cards plus rewards like three is when manageable apple and seven points on tools assume slack has helped thousands of companies scale foster to reach that potential this month there he's standing there special offer to our listeners apply for the bryce called by November thirtieth with the Code Twenty Visa. All spelled out to receive a five hundred dollar credit often spending thousand dollars even better. You can also apply for Bryce. Cash a bank counteractive with unlimited free wire and. Transfers with no minimum balance required to create an account you can apply for an account stay at DOT, com and laws but by no means least if Carter and Bryce really changed the game in terms of Dobbin, and finance amplitude is not for product. amplitude helps the top priority and grow themes companies like pay pal instant Palette on my favorite last seen properties, furnaces that convert and retain customers with the products intelligence platform, you and your team or really be able to better. Understand US behavior ship great experiences false to retain more customers. They've become the gold standard in annoy takes for teams asking what is happening that digital products why uses converting and what do we build next see for yourself how companies like twitter door dashing Cisco Built for growth using amplitude and visit amplitude dot com slash two, zero VC discounted scholarship plans are available for qualifying stops. You have to check them out as always I appreciate it and I can wait bringing fantastic next episode.

Carter Carter twitter Bryce founder US apple Harry founder and managing partner Cisco Hamilton mark Cuban Christie Atlassian Orland Hughes Dallas Texas Ireland Justin Bieber David
Episode #273: Men Are From Mars

Five(ish) Fangirls Podcast

1:13:21 hr | 8 months ago

Episode #273: Men Are From Mars

"My name is Peter Davison doctor. And you're listening to the five ish fan girls pence. Continue all the way up to seventy three of the five girls and some men are lars in some moves there. This week's episode of the PODCAST Blake join us. Let's start with dury this week. This is written in Bethlehem. This is Chrissie in Salt Lake City. This is sally from Wisconsin. Myspace Rachel in Indianapolis New Handler. Oh My House. Everyone holding up. Where Britney stay? She's holding on. Yeah Yeah yes so it like blustery out there like you see a woman on a bicycle or when the POO is a happy? Wednesday isn't very happy for me going. That's what I'm asking myself. What do you think you will answer yourself? That was a close one. Hang on try. Dared here all e- ever wins. Ding. That'd be bad. Oh wow what jumped into the news which really have any news. Hopefully I will get this up before this actually occurs otherwise people in like I missed it as we're recording this and hopefully before this goes off the deck. Dr Tweet along is tomorrow as recording this Tuesday April fourteen. Peter Crepaldi Day in fact back. Peter Dr Birthdays as Peter Davison Birthday. S tomorrow yes so they are going to do a watch along of Heaven sent and the Hashtag is hell of a bird and then also too I think is never searched. I think sometimes this week is went to be which would be long Just kiss fake name. Is John Barrowman and special guests? I'm wondering if one of these special guesses point to James Marsters cells in Seattle. I'm hoping for the job to check with Because Radio Times is doing those so you'll have to check with them as far as the exact details like start time and all that. I know the The Captain Jack. One that they ended up pushing it in. If I had been watching twitter. Wouldn't have known that they actually push back start time by ten minutes. 'cause he added time was the clap along for all the HFS workers wondering if that might not be the case again. Yeah so you can just watch twitter and the yeah where you go from there and John's pretty good about host unanimous about that stuff the in twitter of course follow. Emily yes toward you. The doctor who wants at should be fun out so yes I managed to make it for the the last one. They did the the doctor's wife on him and Alex actually came in and sat by me. He was thrilled by the whole thing is the one. I've been able to do these things. It's either like nap time or some reason. He can't come watch or if he is away key. Just kind of wander soften does his own thing but it was like when when they first showed the interior of the Doctors Tartus and it's all bright and colorful and things are going on. He just kind of sat there to stared at it and then he just he just sat there the rest of the time. I was like okay. This isn't too scary but like get down and play our TV's in the playroom so he could play with his toys and then something would happen and he'd look up again and he seemed to enjoy it you know. I don't know how much he understood. He seized two and a half but he he seemed to like it so that well maps doctors probably fairly entertaining for kids like child. Fuck it was. It was like all the doctor stuff that was was. It seemed to be his his favorite parts with the when amy and rory were being terrorized by house inside the Tartus. I wondered if maybe that was too scary. Or the doctor wasn't on on the screen or something but yeah when the doctor came back up and was doing his thing and going a mile a minute. Alex was just like Whoa. I might be too early to say that Matt is his doctor. But he's in the running table very yes. So we're I'm having a good time with this. Hopefully at some point they'll get jared to sit down and watch one with US. Although he's he's he's still working from home so again with the time zones middle of the day. We're doing stuff a little hard but we'll make it work and it's been a lot of fun and that's really for news so really have much of anything else. There's not anything else going on like. Everything's canceled on hold so Lead show as we do have up sterling an re other week. Yeah just spread things out having to get creative with their yeah series. Vaster is the mask singer. And that's because it was filmed six months ago exactly. Yes yeah all the all the things that were that were taped in advance or well. We'll we'll we'll do what we can and hopefully will it spill bugging your ears that you're supposed to do with CEO Max for after who stuff who do drop early for Beta testing and give us a month free. I know I I did even though. Don't get me wrong. Got My gut my hard copies of. Sometimes it's nice just to have the streaming yes In fact I The the movie that we're going to review today. I own a copy. So do I but I was like. I'm going to pull it up on Netflix. 'cause my copies in a box somewhere in storage. I was just GONNA mention that. I saw an article that said Disney plus has hit their hit hit their subscriber number that they thought they were going to make in year four. I I wonder why it is. Cold Comfort with the movie theaters closed the theme parks closed. It's like Yo you got Disney. Plus so you may. I'm sure I'm sure the chiropractor day he's like I'm waiting for all the marbles stuff to start auto plus and like bit in the meantime you could be the man delorean. I'll watch the mandatory. It's eight just by doing it It to email from one of my co workers as you just gotTa Watch the mandatory. And he's a sick he. Well maybe maybe that now now that the euro. Everyone's stuck at home. It's like well. Let's let's watch something new. So maybe it's a good thing. They they waited. Yep Yeah Moving on two feedback feedback from. Should it laying Pointed out that The in Awkward A little lightfoot vomit voiced by Julia. Louis Dreyfus that is not her first pixar movie shoes also in mudslides. She is voice. It's yes it's been alive since I've seen that. Yes she also mentioned the Disney Pixar make good movies about relationships with family members. Yes they do frozen sisters big six brothers liking father and son up husband wife brave mother and daughter. Yes they do give news. Very good about ten heartstrings. Yeah it's an finally will watch the pitch meeting for for onward and they had the joke going back and forth. Pixar runs on tears out. Here's the tiers part. Yeah then be crushed. You killed him with one blue. I saw you believed can come into this world you John. Carter's What happens place? I knew polit threatens TO DESTROY OUR CITY. You are ugly but you are beautiful here. Were fights are US get on? We did not cause this very nice to what topic which Hersi Food One. Because it's a good movie. It's hard held up for me in that sense. It was in theaters eight years ago. A second time round like still be looking at those behind the scenes stuff on also got a good connection to Ukraine. Because a lot of it's kind of like Nixon. Yes it does. I'm watching it. I'm like I've seen the funny thing is it's all southern. Utah which is where a lot of our national parks. Tian's and Bryce Canyon and arches and all that stuff is all down there and growing up. I was never my family was never big into. Let's go you know vacation at our national parks. I've only been down to Capitol Reef but you've probably if you've ever watched a western you that was made in the United States as opposed to a Spaghetti Western which is made in Italy Europe You have probably seen that that landscape in the future part three so that. That's yeah be a lot of this was was filmed in Utah Kaz. Well there's like the southern. Utah's known for Red Rocks. Mars is the Red Planet. So at the you know the Arizona sequences now that's actually Utah. But Yeah so. We're talking about the movie. John Carter Disney live action. Movie came out in twenty twelve based on the the the bar series by Edgar Rice burroughs. Who's maybe a little more famous for Tarzan? But if you know anything about the John Carter. Books were written in that golden age of pulp adventure stories. And you know and it's like if you think about it they were. They were the inspiration for things like Superman and star wars and anything anything that that that hearkens that has its DNA back to those those adventures clash horses. Yes in fact I was. Yeah you're right even I I was reading you think. It was the WIKIPEDIA page for John. Carter talked about how you know like there was even people wanted to do movies back when when burroughs was writing this these stories and it just never happened and yet because people are like oh adults. Don't WanNa see those space adventure stories and yet Flash Gordon roundabout time or you know that became though serials films in In the theaters. Those but those were more geared toward children so I don't know what happened there but he was like going over the history of bringing John. Carter Carter to the to the movies and in fact when this movie was beat was first being advertised. Such as their advertising campaign was my daddy even mentioned that when he was a kid he remembered reading the John Carter Comics and he was you know he wanted to see this movie. And I don't know I I think you might have gone to see it but I don't know if he had I'm not sure but it's so you know if you don't know the story it's John Carter who is a A veteran of the civil war take place soon after the civil war was over. He was on the confederate side. They lost and she. Is You know he his family was killed and he went out West to seek his fortune just to know kind of figuring out what what to do with himself and stumbles on this cave. That has a certain. I don't know if we want to call it magical or not some properties that will allow you to travel to other planets in the solar system and he ends up on Mars and ends up in the middle of a of a of a big war between the people who live on Mars because yes more almost a civil war in many respects and in the movie. It's as I'm watching. I have read the first book at least And you Kinda have to get used to that style of writing because it was a serialized novel that came out a chapter at a time in the in the I think they had dime store novels back. Then but you know those. Those it's pulp literature in fact there's a letter that you'll see every once in awhile written to from two fan from Edgar Rice burroughs. Who this this fan is a young boy said he said? I said his teacher was criticizing him for reading. Garbage can literature and in response Edgar Rice. Burroughs tells tells us it tells us young man will you know I? I'm glad I'm glad I'm glad people enjoy garbage can literature because even authors of garbage can literature have to eat young and then he goes on to say you know my my stories will do you no harm in fact he might even enjoy yourself a little bit and that's what I'm out to do. So so that's that's kind of. That's kind of the literature that he was writing. And what this is based on. So when you're reading it you kind of have to keep that in mind was was it. These were these were serialized. An each chapter is designed to piggyback off. The one that came before but also kind of stand on its own and then lead into the next ones because they wanted people to buy the next one so when you so you can read it. Have you read it with that in mind? It makes a lot more sense so and I do and I do recommend the book if you if you can find it. Which Amazon has it for? Seven for ninety nine cents. So go do that. Go get it on kindle Where did I start off with? I went down the rabbit hole. I'm sorry but you know the Oh so like the the story in the movie. Though we're talking about focuses a lot on what John Carter's been through losing his family losing losing sight of reward. Yeah and they really had so to be a franchise. Yeah and it should have been honestly. I mean I love this movie. I love watching it but at the end I always get so sad because I'm like. Oh this would have been this is this was going to be a great franchise in for whatever reason why reasons but just to that but there's a lot there's a lot of heart behind it. I mean I know we see that a lot of about a lot of things that we review but you know for for a first story based on the you know quote unquote garbage can literature that is just about you know fighting an adventure and it's very it's not it doesn't seem like it's very deep. It actually has a lot going for it especially with the I mean this was. I mean this was sold. I mean these were novels So I mean it's a slightly different medium but I mean really a lot of the stuff that we enjoy today like the Marvel Star Wars Indiana Jones. A lot of that we can trace back and its origins come from the John Carter series. Yes so I mean all the all the stuff that people probably some take as you know something. That's just kind of always existed. It's like no whistles gotTA origins all the way back to be stories from nearly one hundred seventy the granddaddy of all our cereal stops at. We Love Yeah Yeah and the thing is the series. The books are still going is. The thing is supposed to be a twelfth. Both Western supposed to come out this year. That that's supposed to be Canon go wrong Carter. Ours Gods of at least you supposed to be Spring of twenty twenty but now we're almost at the summer so well we'll find out. I guess yeah a cording to the aggress boroughs a state which After the movie flopped the rights of it went back to the estate. But yeah there's supposed to be releasing another another book so that'll be great now so it's forthcoming fall twenty twenty according to the boroughs website. So let's get to some point this year. We're GONNA get another so you have time to read the eleven books again for well get going. 'cause they're they're they're pretty amazing And the movie. I mean I don't want to sit here and like compared book movie but movie because that's not really what a movie should do now. But it's I mean it's still. I mean there are some changes here there because you have to. You know to sell a book into a two hour movie Allie. He's in the books like Carter Naked. yeah they weren't going to they weren't GonNa do that the movie especially like the things we could change and these things we absolutely should change nudity. Es Definitely changed that. Oh so jared is sitting here. He wants me to tell you about what is latest book that he did. It's it's a It's a superhero. While Superhero Super Soldier is a is a main character into she. She's a veteran. She took a copy of Princess of Mars with her on her deployment at this is fantasy sci fi so it's not but In the book she goes to a COMECON. She actually Cost plays as Deja authorities. And she has. A prosthetic prosthetic legs. That are such that you don't like she could just walk around in her in her legs. You see anything so. She paints her legs to be. Read like you know. Body painting. Let stuff achieves essentially walking around naked yet. Not In her costly. And and it's it's it's an interesting part of the book because because eventually the the villains do show up at the comic con and she has to bust out the the butt kicking the whole setup for it is is kind of hilarious because she she 'cause he's he's taking her boyfriend with her and he put into tries to put them in a loincloth leaking a costly. John Carter so the whole time it is just. I'm like okay. I don't know if anybody could pull that off but you did it. So but yes. That's that's kind of the yet. That's kind of the main the main change in the stories on wires. No one wears clothes. They wear a Lotta jewelry though very strategic replaced if the if the artwork of time is to be believed which I believe it. Apparently the the what costume. Yeah even though. Nobody's making it the movie. What costumes. They did make Apparently big chunk of the customer but just to the third in the third by themselves almost four hundred yards claw. Thank me for the. And there's like what three or four of them in the whole. Yes well. It looked good. I mean they I mean they were. They had that very kind of creepy. I mean they're definitely not for Mars but they're either. Yeah they just. That design had a really creepy sort of other worldly. Look to it so yeah I guess I guess they got their money's worth such as it was mark mark strong gets a typecast playing Bagai. Well if you've got it flaunt it. Yeah you knows where. His bread is buttered. Yeah this is this is is. It's it's interesting. I mean. Obviously the the the novels stuff. There's a long history there and that's been well respected. Obviously otherwise they would still be making books over one hundred years later but the the the the compared to some other things that we've talked about like what are we talking about like good omens and we talked about how it'd be kind of been you know somebody will come along. I'm going to turn this into a live action thing and it just would not happen. It gets shell then come somebody else will come along we've seen that before with other properties but germ Carter At least according to I am DB holds Z. Probably unofficial record for the longest time in development. Hell as it were at almost eighty years. Yup because it there was the idea to turn this into a film all back in one thousand nine hundred thirty one. Robert Clampett was a director of looney tunes of all things approach boroughs to make an animated feature out of the first book in this series and If that actually worked and happen they. That movie actually would've beat Snow White as America's first animated feature length film but obviously it did not happen and has stayed stuck in development. Hell there's been talk of animation. Live action stop motion all different ways of trying to get this turned into movie until Disney finally got it kicked off in pre production started in two thousand ten for the film. The released in two thousand twelve literally a hundred years after the first after the first story is pumped. Yeah and the funny thing is is like okay I? It was like for being released. One Hundred Years after the stories were first published. It's like wouldn't that be just a great marketing opportunity for us at like? Look at look at this. Look at this series inspired all of your favorite Superhero Scifi adventure series. You know so. Many people have been inspired by this and yet like nobody really knew about this. Nobody even talked about it that it was it was anything like that and it. Kinda should have been a lot bigger than it was I. I remember seeing trailer for way back in two thousand twelve late two thousand seven. Whatever and Chauncey win saw it in the theaters. I don't know why because I don't think either was really knew what it was like. Oh It's a Disney movie it'll take on and at this point like we were hind. He was more into it. But I was just getting indoctrinated into marvel has obvious in the first avengers also came out in two thousand twelve so but Yeah so we went and saw it in the movie theater and the movie gets over. And we're leaving and we've kinda looking at each other and we're like that's not the movie that was advertised. That's that's what that's not. What is in the trailers? That's not what like the movie poster imply this movie better. Yeah is the thing in a depending on who you ask and who attacked to. There's a lot of figure pointing on. Who's on his on why. This was a flop. Some people point to your dhs the director or some people towards Disney's marketing people. I think it's probably a little of all the above. And then some definitely. There is a significant mistake as far as like the trailers rewatch the trailer earlier today. And looking at it now. It still doesn't really show the it still doesn't tell you or give you a better idea of what this movie is but looking at it now. With the Post Superhero movies are way more popular and way more accepted now that that trailer now I think would be way more accepted like one of the things that people people supposedly complained about point fingers at the director Andrew Stratton the they told him using led Zeppelin's Kashmir in the trailer was a bad idea. Because they're like that will double date it. It's like why are you? Using an old song from the seventies he was like now post you know for like the years immigrant song for Thir- ragged Iraq. And we're like them you know like yeah that's cool but then it's like we just. We did not have the same opinion on marketing like that. So it's funny the cashier. I haven't seen a trailer sense. I thought when it was being advertised the only thing I remember from the trailer cashmere. Yeah yeah so it's like if I guess if it had been released maybe now or you know last couple years or so. Maybe you would have done a lot better. Who knows but yeah yeah I mean it's it is a fun movie the characters I think are fantastic. I mean the Deja authoress lines of hers is after the battle over the battle over the starks city. John Carter saves her from falling and they fight the those Odinga Nhs and everything and she has a sort over on the Fox and says I surrender. You may take me captive. Because she doesn't want to go back and she's she sees an opportunity with with John. Carter noice to help. Try to convince him to fight fight for for helium. And she's like I gotTa talk to this. Here's take me captive. Take me wherever they go to the leader over there. Please take me to that guy. I need to talk to him. Please and thank you. Yes so yeah I mean the the characters that like an arx were all Motion capture in fact. There was a quote from Willem Dafoe who plays Crap now I'm forgetting the name of the leader. I had it all that he he wanted. He started Nestle tars carcass. Thank you. He thought it'd be fun to play to to to have a job where he learned how to walk on. Stilts in pajamas. Now that could have been a joke. Obviously but you know as I'm watching this for yes indeed but as I'm watching I'm watching it and it was first time I saw. It was like okay. These the bad guys like who's the villain here or or anything. It kind of was like the the green the Green Martian aliens who were they. What is this like and it felt like that that part but what once once. You have targets on unscrewing. You're like okay. This is someone that you can that. John should trust that he's going to be one of the good guys. And Yeah there's a little bit of tension between him and some of his people but overall it's just and it's like you know recognize. Willem dafoe and I was like okay. Sometimes he plays villains assist the bad guy because of that. And it's not and it's it's it's really fun character. Same with same with Sola. Is the other stark that John gets given to when they're bringing all the hatchlings a he's he's we found this. We found this thing. So here you take you babysit him could be easy. You have all that I mean all that stuff. It's like the the the character design is great. The cinematography is really great. Even I mean some of the special effects some of them look a little wonky. But it's like how do you fell at? You know someone who can for whom gravity is not an issue when clearly it is right wherever you are so I figure as best as they could do they did a pretty good job that Jim up and you just Kinda let him drag them around the dirt. Yeah apparently allowed him to jump and then freefall at a really high rate of speed and apparently. Because it's a job if you've seen any I found some behind the scenes footage and it's Like something you'd see like trapeze. People wear learn how to detract around their waste and around the Groin area. Yeah apparently Apparently Mister Kitsch was not San falling with a that around the family jewels. Yeah but you have heard that from other actors and other introductions it's like yeah careful about that for those harnesses. Any sort of harnessed type thing. That does that didn't help. And he was wearing a skirt. Essentially the entire movie too. So yeah that's a that's unfortunate but that's what you do for your for. Your Art Eissa coast. Yeah but no yeah. It's just every time I watch it. I just have a good time. I I enjoy it. It's a great story. It's you know. It's for an adaptation of a book. That's over one hundred years old. Which is not unusual. But you know something that people a lot of people don't like trying to figure out how to explain this because like I said my dad. My Dad knew about this when he you know He. He's he read the comics when he was growing up. I hadn't really heard of. I hadn't really heard of John Carter. I knew about Tarzan Edgar. Rice burroughs was from that but then it was just more. You know reading. And learning about it and Wishing I'd known about about the series before then and just knowing how important it is to our sci-fi in general and is why is talking about this and feeling like it should have gotten a lot more attention. I mean as far as production goes I feel like they did a good job of of representing the story and the characters and that's one thing that I think Disney outside of a live action remakes. But when they do their adaptation. There live action adaptation. Some of them. Don't go so well. I don't know why that is but this one feels like it's one of those exceptions and I'm like why didn't you guys? I just feel like I feel like I guess it makes me sad. I feel like it's a missed opportunity. A massive missed opportunity. Because if you if you enjoy this kind of SCI FI space opera type of thing I just feel like it's it should have been a really great movie series. You know as much as we talk about. Pirates of the Caribbean and that one's still fairly fairly wear well regarded. It's like this could have been that same sort of thing and also I am Taylor. Kitsch would is like I feel like he could have been one of my very favorite actors. If he'd been given a chance to do something really awesome. I mean he was in. He was gambit in x men origins. And I'm like Oh you poor you poor man do you. Do you do some great work? You've done a great job. It's just a productions that you're in have all these other problems and none of it's your fault. It's like come on this. Mana chance and gambit as a character is not gotten the most The best treatment. Yeah that too that I've been I've been watching the original exponential series on Disney plus and. I'm like Oh man. This guy's awesome gannets between a cartoon. Gambits my favorite follow very close. Second Bible rain. Let's just put it that way. Live action movies. Didn't help too much now but But Yeah I just I. I love this movie. I don't know what else I can say. Just I mean I could sit here gush about it and the whole the the story and how it's set up thing. I mean you have the opening where the battle with so Danga and then getting the the blue power from the dark circles the thoenes on my gosh and then it cuts to earth and everything going on with John Carter and he you know he dies. Quote Unquote leaves his entire estate to his nephew. Ned who I love as little as he's in the movie he's great and any in any you know. There's a flashback to win to win. John was going to was looking for his Keva gold in the Arizona territory. And it's got you know that one's all Western got that very western feel which at which at the time these books were being written. That was that was the thing people did are they are. There was something very recent in history so people would have understood understood that sort of choice and that sort of thing after the civil war and then decided losing side. Yeah it's like well forget this I'm GonNa go. I'M GONNA go seek my fortune. I've got nothing. Here's and which is exactly what John Carter has. He's got nothing and he's like I'm just GonNa go see what I can go explore and see what I can find out there. And he finds a portal demars. Basically well okay not a portal to Mars but he finds e gets a. He gets a medallion. That any it's accidentally sent to Mars. And that's how he that's how they have to go through this whole big thing to figure out how it works and how he can travel and meanwhile Deja authorities is is researching things from Martian history So that she can give her your kingdom a an upper hand in the war because helium losing But no but the turns don't want anyone to have this power unless they unless they give it to him. In fact he says one of the third says later in the movie is like sap. Dan is a he's a entity. Say you know. He's he's a brute and he's easily controlled and that we want to rule because we don't want you we don't want anyone to have any more power than than what we give them. Which is kind of unfair but then again the thoenes aren't exactly the the the good guys here either. Yeah No. They're kind of like this. Like all this immortal. All seeing race supposedly has been traveling around the universe to the different plants for centuries lifetimes or whatever so that that ends up being house John Carter makes his way back at the end Realize Wade out until one of them shows themselves in steel down in which almost like it could be a movie in and of itself. Because I think I think a big chunk of the second book is actually about his his him trying to get back to Mars after he's Sent back by the by the turns because they're they're upset that he he messed up their plans. But I think it's funny at the end when the when the thirds are irk. You know taking him through and like saying this is our plan and this is what we do and you're just going to make a mess of it near you know we're too smart for for anybody in who's going to. How are you going to do? An John is just like screw you. I'm GonNa do what I want like. You're perfect so much fun to watch. And and yes you go in you. Go be the hero you go get the girl and it's awesome. Glenn Coco Okay. Of course I mean you know you say that you're like like deja authorities. She's a she's heroic her own right. I mean she's the one crossing swords with the bad guys trying to find ways to save her kingdom without involve being married off to she's no damsel in distress. Oh no I mean I. There was one point in the movie. I'm like they're like the ultimate battle couple please and again this. These characters were created one hundred years ago you know Deja authorities is like that in the book that I mean there's there's other aspects to our as well but I mean they they nailed that part pretty well and she's GonNa. She's going to rule her her people. And that's that so this this that's not a. That's not an adaptation. That's a modern adaptation. That was there from the beginning. Yes that's like some of the inherited traits unlike themes that are the source material accurate source. Yeah I guess material. It's like it's it was ahead of its time for it. Very much was nineteen hundreds. Yeah and that's one thing that gets looked over in in modern SCIFIS people are like. Oh you know we're doing all this very progressive forward thinking stuff and I'm like you're not the first one to think about that. But good on you for trying. It's like some of the some of the some of this for you so you know it's okay to take inspiration from those who came before that's all right. We're not ready for that or the newer guys try but then they try too hard and then it falls a little. Yeah it feels it feels. It feels like it's a little it's a little too heavy handed Whereas this he was his boroughs is I thought was to entertain and then you know. Tell a good story. And that's why these these these stories of of held on so long. Why people still still read them. Apparently why we're getting a twelve book after all this time. Holy cow there's there's some nuggets Wisdom in social commentary that works a lot of the line. It'll be it. He was like you said he was in the market co telling the story. Yeah and that's that was and again. These are things that inspired many people to come to come later and inspired this movie for one thing. In fact there was well. I saw one quote here on. Imdb when Is About Roberts was it Robert. Zemeckis Is it was approach to to direct direct it. Yeah and he said well. George Georgia's already done that. Which is which is hilarious. Because I'm like well George took his cues from this stuff. This is George for inspiration. Or you know he did flash you know he he. He was inspired by Flash Gordon. Well Flash Gordon comes from from this tradition. This from this Mecca's window batter you and it could have been. It could have been in in the sense of people don't know about that and they've already seen star wars so they. WanNa see this. I'm like dude right or and then to maybe he was thinking a lot you know the audience blowback saying hey this is a star wars rip off when in actuality. It wasn't like I I make the joke of When I when I referred to Joseph Cambell book the hero with a thousand faces on my Goya Joseph. Cambell some guy who ripped off George Lucas. But now that you know the whole hero's journey sort of thing but it's like yeah it's like it's it's it's been there. Yeah it's and it was probably they're even before then I mean I'm sure you know in those old ancient epics is as old as time itself guys that the characters and settings may change but the themes. They're all their job. We don't have to reinvent the wheel all that much. We just KINDA GOTTA give it a couple of little pain your blood reason the MC. You is needed the JILLION DOLLARS. Even though you know if you break it down the plots and stuff are kind of saying but it's like you know you give them. That's a pretty enough picture. Nfl explosions but wyss with some good character development because obviously just explosions at the end of the day bait work. There's some people. Hey you know who you are. Certain transforming vehicle franchise but pension for a lot of solar sunflowers. Whatever Sun Flares? I will take a J.J. Abrams some player. But there is more to it than that AEGINA. Yeah let's see the other stuff but yeah no it's like the hero's journey can be wrapped up in all sorts of different outfits and technically. It's still the same but it's like you to find a good way to talent than people people helping people will spend the money. People will watch they will. They will plunk down in seats though but I just say saying. It's like the the issues that this particular navies had at the end of the day. What exactly went wrong. I don't think you can say it's it's ex you know is the one thing is what screwed this this movie over in height it fail dorm events that it just yeah. It's like you had a director who had proven himself as a decent director for animation. But this was his first live action and he's even admitted that he got a bit of a big head when filming it He said He. He said he got drunk with power. And Directing this movie and you know being the director and we discussed this before. The director really is obviously the person there behind the camera. Show the action and telling people what they want but they they have their finger in the higher creative process from this casting to costumes to. Yeah the actual filming to the post production to the marketing and everything and he got his finger into all those different pots and stir them in a very bad way of and I think it was a combination of that. I think it was timing. Only at this point. Four years into the corner quote MC you. Yeah we were getting ready for the avengers. Which would be a game changer? As far as what people wanted and would expect from big boss blockbuster action movies so You know I think the casting was was good. Yeah the cat. The cat is solid. Don't think there's an issue there like you said the CGI for the most part it holds up pretty well for being almost a decade old so but just the biggest thing even then any after like I say coming out of the movie theories just it was marketed. Jerry badly. Yeah I mean like like I said from historical standpoint. You're I mean there's there's so many avenues they could've taken and it was. It was one hundred years since the since the series of books series was was first published. So there's an anniversary you're celebrating their you. Could've you could've taken so many different angles. It's you know these. These stories inspired so many different franchises. That people know and you know they could have done it. I mean Disney Disney. He knows how to do this sort of stuff. And why? Why didn't it work? Why didn't it work but I kind of hope that maybe someday we'll get another shot. I mean it says that the estate is game for another another studio to to try or maybe you just need another shot. I mean with what what? They've got now out making blockbusters here. Yeah take their shot at it. I mean I think they could do us a decent job. I mean maybe maybe take attack in in the story John. Carter gets sent back to Earth for so many years and he has to work to get back. Maybe do a little tongue in cheek like yeah. It took him a while to get back and it took US allowed to get back. We're GONNA do it again. Let's take a bit of every bit of a decade and it's been also decades this movie with released. Yeah Yeah there you go. You could try that or you know. Tiger lary on the noes. Have it me? John Carter of Mars from the from the get-go. Yeah I mean even when I saw the trailer and I'm seeing this great big Scifi epic thing. I'm like this is cool. And it's called John Carter. I'm like even if you'd call it a princess of Mars and we get you know which is what the book the first book in the series. What this movie is largely based on sound? That sounds awesome. It's like you're going to Mars. There's a princess there. Oh look she kicks. But loss of yeah. I mean it's just there's there's so much to this movie and I just wish when you say oh man. I wish I wish. I wish I want that sequel. Gosh darn it I want the sequel setting up because it looks it the whole thing look so good. The action is amazing. And but it's but it's not just all quote unquote dumb action is. There's there's some weight behind it and there's some interesting stuff and I love how it kind of melds. I mean to two of my love. Western's and I love sci-fi stuff it kind of melts two together just perfectly. Yeah yeah say if Disney words give it another shot that I think they could. They'd have to get the people involved but yeah This kid this could easily become another whether they WanNa do a movie series. Or maybe even a limited series like on dizzy poss- Scowl. Yeah something like the man delorean. Yes see ads. 'cause like it was originally steroids novel. Maybe it'd be better as like a more like a mini series full. Yeah well and now. We're getting more into more. Where where they'll do book series based on TV shows based on book series rather than just movies and heck yet. He's that how many okay go ahead holly go ahead finish Christie or I was going to say how many book series are coming to like Amazon or Netflix. Or I've already earned already been there screaming so and now and now going to the shorter limited run of seven to ten episodes per story or season and I think that really has helped improve. The storytelling Yeah because you have more time to tell it but you're not like dragging it on and that right and you have to be more concise instead of. Hey you've got a twenty twenty one twenty two episode run goal. Yeah it's like here's this time. Go fill it. And you're like we'll varietal with what but streaming can say at this story. I told you know ten episodes and we're going to do it and that's it and not having to be renewed over and over and over again and just say nope. This is what we've got so That's what we're doing. Yeah I think that would that would work. I really wish people would think about that sort of stuff. Is Someone yes? I mean right now. Nothing is happening. Unfortunate that you can do a lot of the thinking but nothing's going to happen. I say but yeah but no I think I think the just the Looked like the cultural like atmosphere is more ripe for something like this to try again and be more successful also. Yeah tiring lies. I think it will be accepted greater. I think both for the people that are fans of the novels and want to see it done right but even people like us that actually in joy the movie you know like this actually was a fad. It's got a cult following. It's not nearly to the point of like a rocky horror type following but it's it's got a bit of a of a bit of a fan base bind where people are like no. Let's make a halfway decent. Yeah but movie. Well maybe to. Maybe it's a doctor who situation kind of where they did their TV movie and it didn't do so well and that kind of you know. Help wipe the slate for well. Let's again in you know in a few years and now the the TV shows so at maybe getting people that Oh yeah this thing it exists. And Oh wow. It's actually really good booker. The the other movie or whatever it is that you're that you're talking about or both but yet me the more I think about it. The more I'm just like please give flicks give. Please please do it. Look give me this onscreen whether it's TV screen or movie screen. Just I mean it's it's like I mean like we've said several times it inspired a lot of but it's also it's own thing. The story is also They're like these characters you can't you. What am I trying to say? You can take inspiration from them. But these are like John Carter deja theorists and tars carcass. All these characters are their own thing. And you're not gonna get that anywhere else nor should you and it's like I wanna see these and I I mean I have seen him in this movie. I WANNA see more of it Fan Girls and we're fan girl hanging over with our balls. Outgoing please exactly. This is what we do then. We're also coming up with ideas that we are in no position to do anything about but it would be nice if the powers that be ever like decided. Hey so what? Do you think about this and like yes. You have these ideas. The one costs you much. We'll take payment in Trips WANTS TO SIR. Opened and red carpet invites. Yes we get invited to the premier. That's all I want. Enemy take a few days at Disneyland? Mickey Bursts Ellipse. We'll buyer on ears. Yes you know over to the area that AB late around a side trip to win. The marvel stuff is all set up up to the front of the latest. Please and thank you so much no not at all but but I mean if anywhere. Listeners are looking for something good to watch. And you've you've exhausted all your regular binge-watching stuff. John Carter's on Netflix. Watch it. It's amazing to be on busy. Plus I think yes the next month in May. Oh well there you go so it'll be well that's where I went to look for it because like I said I owned the DVD. But I didn't want to go like I just want to. I want to watch this this movie. But it's like. I wonder if John Dizzy plus and Disney plus said no not yet. Now like a chance on Netflix Netflix. For now Disney plus later get so if you haven't seen it added to your watch list because it is so worth it. It's one of those hidden gems that apparently not not enough people know about every like you said there's is getting more and more of a following in people are looking to one. I. I thought he didn't see it in the theater but we had picked it up as soon as it had hit the rental. Ni- dad knife sat and watched it on the weekend. We picked up the DVD. Or just like critics panned. Why Yeah I mean. We enjoyed it immensely and was like Hey. It was a lot better than planet of the three. Make me in trouble to. Gosh Yeah Yeah listeners yourself that they were. Stick away from that one at all possible neck. Oh no your brain cells. Yes yes yes. I watched the final day remake like mobile curiosity. 'cause like I kept isn't really that bad. If it's that bad yes it is yes. Some things should just not be remade. Yeah that if somebody tells you not to wash that one joan for your own curiosity just distrust trust to be well anything else not really no. I mean I could sit here and gushed about how much I enjoy this movie and go scene by scene. Say and this parts great in this grade in this great and the romance is Great. Yes by the way. There's a romance in that you wouldn't know that from the trailer but it's there. Yeah I read something. That's one of the things that supposedly didn't help is like well. The romance wasn't really advertised. Which would have helped pick up some of the female audience moviegoing dais and I'm over here like well. Maybe some but not me. That's not a selling point. I will say I will say it would have helped would help sell me on it a little more. Tell me on it but I could see how it could some. And but yeah it's all you know and there's even some good humor and I mean we'll la the little iliad plus. She's of that clamoring for baby iota. Plus she's hello little this little chunky six legged Six or eight league. I don't know I could never talk anymore. Because he moves so fast but he's so cute. I want one. I'm the I'm the kid who was scared. Scared of e t when that one came out. He looks so freaky but he's adorable. We kinda have rodents of unusual size is even though they're not rodents size and we always have have kind of a princess bride type. Yeah seriously but yeah I mean it's it's got it's got a little bit of everything so if you like. I said it's it's it's a forerunner to space opera. If you love review if you love Star Wars this is one that you will. You will probably enjoy. Because it's it's star wars great great granddaddy and then also I looked. I will double check one. More time. Amazon has the first seven books in a set for ninety nine cents. So you know that if you're looking for something to read that's definitely something to keep you busy but Speaking of Sorry I'm looking it up due to do one of my favorite things. Is that the little bit you? It's it's sad to a little bit of backstory that we get up like his wife and child like You don't really say they show it but I remember thinking that was a thought handled. Well yeah sorry. I'm just pulling this up but yeah so anything else. Wants to talk about her role. Good Well our listeners have seen John Carter They WanNa talk about it or read the book or any of that stuff. We can You can send US feedback about it. Send our email is Five ish fan girls at Dot Com also visit our website. Which is the five ish fan girls dot com and you can get all of our social media links and check us out there. You can also help. Support the show by becoming patriarch on Petri non patriotic for our listeners. There you can also Amazon store and our red bubble store. You can get Smerch We have our Kofi account that I still don't know how to pronounce properly but never mind it's there and I don't think anybody does actually there. You go maybe somebody from the website kids kids could enlighten us. But they're tomato thing. I'm sure I'm sure that they may thank you listeners. For being there and for supporting us and enjoying our our shenanigans as crazy as they are in hope. Hope we're helping out in these very very crazy times shelf signed for saying this is chrissie tonight from Salt Lake City. This is from the Spanish. Saying good evening is Internet. Melson the off your but you are beautiful fights like a car. You haven't been listening to the five ish. Fan Girls podcast. You can find more episodes and information at the five ish. Fan Girls Dot com any and all books movies games and then the other forms of media mentioned are owned and operated by the respective copyright holder no copyright infringement is intended or implied if you wish to support the show the easiest way is to leave us a rating and review more ratings and reviews will make it easier for others to find the show. If you wish support US monetarily you can do so at patron dot com slash five ish. Bengals podcast. All money goes towards fees and equipment to keep the show going for official five is fingernails merchandise visit red bubble dot com slash people slash. Five girls we love hearing from our listeners and encourage feedback you can email us at five ish fan girls at gmail.com. You could also like and follow us. Facebook AT FACEBOOK DOT com slash. Five is fan girls. Thank you so much for listening and made the skwebe with you.

John Carter Disney John Deja Edgar Rice burroughs US director Netflix Amazon John Carter Disney John Barrowman Salt Lake City jared twitter Chrissie Arizona Carter Carter Wisconsin
Fast Money 08/31/20

CNBC's Fast Money

1:33:17 hr | 3 months ago

Fast Money 08/31/20

"Maybe, you've heard of slack, but what is it slack? Is Your New Q. One place for everyone at your company to find answers, share updates and stay caught up slack where work happens get started at slack dot com. I'm Dominic Queuing for Melissa Leo and this is Fast Money Tonight's trader lineup guy. Dommie Karen. Feinerman Baldwin is sin and Carter worth tonight on fast money not every single stock is reaching all time highs these days but the chart master himself is looking at a few names that are about to come to life and later on work from home darling zoom video blasting off again after its earnings report, we will break down the numbers find out if the momentum can keep going to the upside plus we've got a super size edition of. Fast. Money. Tonight we are taking your questions all through the six PM eastern time our so tweet us, those burning trading questions at CNBC fast money, and you might just get an answer live on our air coming up in the next hour. But we start with an awesome August for stocks while the S. and P. Five, hundred the day down it did put together a seven percent gain for the month making it the best August since one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty six but it is a is it a September swoon ahead coming up? Is after all historically the worst month of the year for stocks. So Guy Should we wake you up When September ends, I'm trying to channel my Green Day here for you look at you. First of all welcome Don to it's always great to have you I. mean you're doing Yeoman's work do you WanNa, play the song you can play with? Just a Melo outta looking great just a mellow on a little. That's a big Dan Nathan Group by the way and it's fitting. You Pick Green Day because every single day the market is green and it's pretty remarkable and if you watch the show, you know I've been more than a bit of a skeptic for a while and I continue to be a skeptic. September. Historically a wacky month. But I think you throw out all the historical norms based on what's going on. Now what I will mention is this and I'm sure the Great Carter Braxton worth has some thoughts on this. You have a pretty significant move in the vix over the last few days despite the fact that the market. Wants to do that grind higher I think the VIX has been trying to tell you something bond volatilities back to the first time in a meaningful way since March last time that happened that led to equity volatility I think we're in sort of on the precipice of something like that happening fantastic August fantastic five and a half six months. But. If you look underneath the surface I think the market is trying to tell you something. All right. So what does the market trying to tell US Carter braxton worth CBW only because guy brought it up just now what exactly does it look like from your standpoint? Are we do for that? September, swoon. Sure will in many ways I think the answer is there is no market right the SNP long ago became just a handful of stocks. So there's a lot of attention and there has been rightly. So in the top five being twenty five percent but for the first time, just in the last eight to ten sessions, top fifteen stocks as a wait now exceed their waiting in the dot com peak meaning the top five long ago, exceeded the concentration level of nineteen, ninety nine. But now the top fifteen are higher than they were as a percentage of the SNP then in nineteen ninety, nine, crossed that threshold. So every day a new record is broke. Let's consider the following table here that might be worth looking at. Just looking at the circumstance where you have a big month, August, more than five percent. And the S&P is up to date more than five percent. Now in the ninety three year history the SNP that's only happened seven times, and if you took a look at the median or mean performance of those seven times, rest of your performances, negative down typically two three percent now. Well, that's not a lot that's the totality of the performance. There are drawdowns along the way. So one one plays at one's risk. So. Here's the question I have Karen Feinerman. One we know that the S P five hundred right now is up pretty decently high. It's a positive solid year today performance. Yet we look at one of the S. and P. Five hundred equal weight ETF's that tracks and more equally weighted S. and P. Five hundred and it's actually down four percent so far this year it speaks their carring guys point about what's leading the markets here is it worrisome for a money manager to see just such narrow leadership going right now? It is somewhat worrisome, but I think the ones that have led us, you know the names plus a couple others. It's understandable why in this? Extraordinary time that we find ourselves that that's where the money goes because of the size because of the balance sheets because of the. The businesses that are actually in some ways benefited by the pandemic so it's really unusual but I think the guy's really onto something here with the vicks. Edgy out every last couple of days. So when I think about managing money and I think about what do I do with this levitating market a half to be invested and I, don't see in other alternatives. So I'm in the stocks that I have some of the big ones. Apples and and Microsoft and facebook and Google of the world, but I also have a few for you know. Trade. But the vix is somewhat worrisome. So why don't want to sell my winners I do want to protect them and protections actually getting a little bit more expensive now with the vix trading up. But as to I can't just sell things because September is historically bad and I'd be curious how September's have gone when the Fed is just flooding money and stimulus is around the corner who probably don't have any comparisons for that dynamic which we find ourselves in so. Nervous about every month but not this one so much in particular I mean. You could argue caring that the last ten years or so have been filled with central banks flooding markets whether it's September or any kind of a month out there. Perhaps bone turns you on this one here because Karen and guy and quarter bring up these points and I wanna turn you because we have talked about the cost of insuring things Karen just brought it up right now it has been taking higher, but it's still relatively cheap compared to what we saw over the past one, two, three, four, five months. So as now the time that maybe you don't sell the winners but you ensure them and protect the downside is cheap. I think it's cheap versus the time period that that you mentioned. But it's still expensive in the grand scheme of things. If you look back historically I, mean we've had regimes where you know volatility the vix is at ten twelve thirteen. level. So twenty six still seems expensive. I would be putting in place stop losses and buying protection against my holdings here. Absolutely. All right. So buying protection against those holdings guy are there parts of the market right now that you think are especially vulnerable? Well I mean a big Cap Tech is little. Talking about. That's fascinating but I saw leave that to win the conversation starts but I do think you know some these high flying names are absolutely audible but let me mention this going back to the vix quickly the last time the S&P five hundred made an all time. High was at thirty, three, ninety level I guess in January of memory serves the vix had a thirteen handle. Now we're making all time highs with the Federal Reserve in in ways they've never even imagined victim twice that so you have to. Ask Yourself. You know if you if you had said to the the Fed officials, you're GonNa pour this money into the economy. Where's the going to be I? Think their hopes would be would be matching the December January levels, and here we are twice that so they can throw all the money they wanted things but I do think under the surface certain things are absolutely attempting to tell you something and the vix is the one that stands out to me. We'll talk about the Russell as well which. Obviously has been underperforming the broader market to all right. So so we know that the cost of insuring against losses for the S. and P. has been taking higher and it has been for a while. Now, it doesn't seem to be at least flying in the face of what's happening. Now, with certain those big CAP tech stocks I want to turn out to what's happening with Apple. It was one of August big winners here shares of the tech giant's surging twenty one percent this one today with its. Four to one stock split taking effect the stock closing up more than again, three percent just on the day close at an all time high adjusting for that split. Let's bring in Laura Morton. She's Needham's senior Internet and media analyst. She is bullish on Apple. Laura what do you? What do you make of this? This idea that you can have a stock split? It's been telegraphed for a while. Now it just happened today. Is it just this notion that people WANNA buy Apple? No matter what the price is. Yes no I think what's going on with these fangs being revalued upwards including at all is that ecosystems are being revalued upwards because they have an anchor tenant of service, and then they can attach other services to them and drive in this a sixty seven percent margins on it, services and business from Apple. So I think that I think the government regulation and crackdown is actually positive for the thanks because they have the resources to meet these extra regulatory hurdles that startups do not up. So I. Think it's raising buried at entries to would be display servers. So speaking of those barriers to entry, how how important is it that maybe some companies are pushing back against apple and its peers out there which there are just a few maybe just one or two this this. I'm looking at this kind ongoing dispute with epic Games, the creators of fortnight and the APP store just specifically is apple's margin on that side of things going to come down eventually because there is going to be pushed back. So I would argue the answer's no epic is the third members Nadler was than spotify than or at night most recent five years a fortnight exist epic released a fabulous game in the reason, billion people play at the day is because virtually overnight IOS but that game into the hands of billion people overnight and now they wanna sort of volume discount they wanNA pay less because they're so big. and. I would from a public policy that would be horrible decision for apple does anything your bigger companies pay the most? They should everybody's paying thirty percent to the Apple. Right. Now, it'd be horrible to cut the price for the big guys because that means you're charging more for startup, which is what epic themes was or years ago. So now I think apple win this Congress this this trial and I think it will be found. These are commercial terms, and if night against wants to leave, they can walk away from all IOS players. How effectively Laura how effectively his apple changed its narrative it wasn't so long ago that we were bemoaning the leverage they had to the iphone, the smartphone market, the declining margins perhaps there now, it's all about the fast growing services side of things have they really now sold investors on the story that they are a services company and will be more so in the future I think, yes and more complicated. -Ly meaning bigger barriers to entry. They've also solve consumers are I guess investors on the idea that watches at value tablets at values the math these ancillary hardware on ramps create lower turn out of the apple iphone, which which then drives up lifetime value customer his you're selling them more hardware in addition to the services story that you just mentioned, which has twice the profit margins. So the more the longer you keep people in the hardware ecosystem, the more money they're paying apple as sixty seven percent margins in the services side of the business. Laura I want to expand this discussion. Bhawan is on the line over here as well. I know that you've got something here for for Laura. Laura thanks so much first of all, make yourself available and sharing your insights with all of us. I mean given all the bullets sentiment around Apple. Would you mind sharing some insights as to what are the things on the forefront that might raise concern what possible headwinds outside of? What what they have going on in Washington in the antitrust what would concern you? In cause you to perhaps change your view on the stock price in the short term. China. China that apple becomes a football in this political battle that trump gets reelected in continues to hammer away at the what he perceives as the unfairness of the fact that Chinese markets are closed and therefore he's kicking out. TIKTOK and if we chat from America, if apple becomes the political when Franck low and trying to keep them out of China, it's about fifteen percent of their annual hardware sales and more importantly it's got a huge installed base that if they can't buy services from apple that would be a twelve month downdraft reset. EPS TENURE ACS estimates. All Right Laura before we let you go I just want to kind of bring into the discussion what's happening with talk we know that a another mega capitec name and Microsoft is very much in the discussion there. Maybe even Walmart's what do you think the future is for Tiktok and what do you think it means for tech is an industry going forward. Well I think it means nothing for going forward. So forget that one for tiktok specifically I think that track I think we have a track record of what's going to happen next I think facebook snap got a great idea facebook trying to buy them. Evan wooden sell snap. So facebook replicated in today it's called Instagram and it's five times bigger than snap from a subscriber from user view I. think that's exactly what facebook will do here although they didn't try to buy TIKTOK, they're going to replicate Tiktok, in something they've introduced reels so far they're not doing a very good job and I fully expect those engineers to get it right over the next six months meanwhile, Tiktok, we'll get sold to a large company meaning it will be hard to keep their engineers and my guess is that the systems and the interational speed will dramatically decline when it gets to a bigger company. So expect ticked off to be less effective at year from. A year from now after it's thought then when it was a standalone. Or Lower Morton need him. Senior Internet and media analyst. Thank you very much. All those thoughts. We always appreciate getting your insights there. Thank you. All. Right Karen, Feinerman I-. Apples up today again, it seems like I'm a broken record but I'm not. It really is up again today. What do you make the stock? Move I mean I think it's kind of ridiculous I've long I haven't sold it. So I guess that says something but I mean, I, don't know how many days it should be up on the same split news. It's been up well, they announced split when they announced those blowout earnings and that deserve to move the stock a lot. But the split has sort of been the driver almost every day, which is kind of ridiculous. I. Actually makes me nervous I don't like that it's up on that because I feel like when people realize, oh, split doesn't really mean anything that you know maybe the air will come out of it but. I have no explanation for it. Well, Carter worth what are the Stock Charts tell you? Is there anything that we do with apple at record high levels and extensions to the quote unquote overbought side? Sure just put the think about can use the word ridiculous twice. Out of out of words speak, which is I think what is but I own it and I think that's the conundrum for so many people typically it's right to hold your winners and yet at some point one wonders. Well is this ridiculous. So what we do know is you can measure trend in one form or another movie using moving average is if you were to look at where apple is in relation to its average trailing price over one hundred, fifty days, it is now essentially fifty percent above its hundred and fifty day moving average that has only happened one other time in the past fifteen years and it was. early Oh six and pretty soon thereafter, apple took a pretty good hit meaning to some extent. It's a game of musical chairs. People stay because, hey, they have these things like what else should I do or Tina there is no alternative and there's nothing wrong with that per se. But if the same time we can all use the word ridiculous or remarkable or stupefying all of which are valid. It does make you wonder whether hedging. Writing some option strategies is the thing to do at a minimum or trimming. All right. Well, we'll apple has been posting one record high after another after another at least valuations wise other names have been left behind but chart mastercard worth. Yes. We're going to go back to you has some picks ready to come to life Carter what besides apple can you still have some upside in? Sure. So before we look at the charge, the thought here was we know that the S. and P. is making all time highs and yet basically thirteen percent of the SNP stocks are making all time highs. In fact, fifty percent of the index has made no progress in two years and so is that an opportunity someone say the ones that aren't working are working for a reason about I've singled out three. So let's look at the first slide and this is basically showing you the stocks we're going to look at it starbucks. Caterpillar and Dupont and showing you how far each is down from its all time high starbucks down fifteen caterpillar down eighteen and Dupont down forty nine. So real laggards compared to the SNP. So let's look at their charts and it's all a common circumstance first starbucks and I've annotated Each one with a downward sloping line. What you see here is that starbucks is threatening to break above that line I think in fact, that's what's going to happen. So here's a very large cap name that has catch up potential and look at the next one. This is Caterpillar. Its peak wasn't a year ago as in the case of starbucks, its peak was more than two years ago but it's the same circumstance that down sloping trendline and the stock is moving up to it and Presenting the opportunity. That's the thought that it will break through. We think it does and finally Dupont this is the one that's down the most it to in January of two thousand eighteen long ago like Caterpillar. But again, a stock that's come up dramatically off, it's slow. From March more so than the market and is. Showing the potential that it's going to finally break trend to the upside. So three very large cap names that are down considerably versus the market, which is making all time highs laggards for ketchup. All Right Guy. Let's talk about starbucks Caterpillar and dupont you any of those names strike a tuning fork with you. The first to go backwards. Caterpillar I thought for a while. Now is GONNA head up to those recent highs of one fifty, it's been having trouble one, forty two but it seems to have some tailwinds for the first time in a while with Carter on that the one that really is interesting to me a starbucks and Carter is or either Barron's echoing Carter Carter is sort of talking about some of the things we're sending barons over the weekend, but he's right. It is absolutely. On. The verge of a breakout, you've been putting this base in the low eighties for quite some time and I think you know Carter would probably agree it closed above eight thousand eight probably sets up to push towards that hundred dollar level. So those tourists Dupont has issues you know other in and of itself the other two though I find pretty compelling these levels I mean Karen are are their names there that you think are poised for the upside in that list or elsewhere. Well, starbucks actually own starbucks. I. Think you know it's expensive if you're just looking at this year but I think next year. It's the multiple sort of in the mid to high twenty s I think the year after that. I think there'll be not only back to where they were twenty two I. Think they'll actually be above where they were. So I like starbucks. I'm long doesn't matter actually where you bought it but I'm. I'm staying long bond a win any any anybody on that list that you like in terms of valuations at these levels. We'll cat actually I've owned. I mean, we've talked about market leadership. They definitely qualify there I accident putting some stops or owning and I've gotten taken out of some of those names I would play it slightly different. I would wait for it to hold the new trend. Now, I'm probably going to miss out on a few percent there but that's the way that I'd be looking to play it. It's got a hold a floor for me and I would rather write that trend. Right veteran rather than try to pick the beginning of settlement. All right. Here we go. Some thoughts there on those stocks. Thank you very much guys coming up on the show zoom on the move after its latest earnings report will dive into the numbers and break down all of the after hours action and later on drama at the drive through the latest twist in the saga between McDonald's, and it's ex CEO what it means for the stock fast money is back after this break. Maybe. You've heard of slack but what is it slack? Is your new HQ one place for everyone at your company to find answers, share updates and stay caught up slack where work happens get started at slack dot. com. Welcome back to fast money work at home darling zoom video reporting earnings in this last hour darrow Deirdre Bosa is here with details and it seems like it was a pretty bullish report across the. Board. It's going to stay down darling indeed, it certainly keeps thought title blowing expectations out of the water on every metric kids biggest customers doubled year over year customers overall grew more than four hundred and fifty percent. Now, just a few months ago it's hard to believe we were sitting here talking security and privacy concerns and how much larger rivals like Microsoft facebook and Google were nipping zooms heels with copycat products or features. It turns out guys. The Zoom is pretty untouchable JP Morgan report at the end of July says that zoom has now captured about half of the video conferencing market, and that comes year after its IPO. As its valuation continues to climb. Of course, many are wondering what's next? How long can it sustain? This momentum wants to growth comes back down to earth comps they're going to be tough and its competitors having slowed down even if they're just chipping away, meanwhile, the Zoom is looking to expand its offerings. So remind you of those it's new initiatives included zoom phone, cloud telephone service a hardware as a service were partners with hardware makers streamline its platforms and its own six hundred dollar hardware device. Guys don't Miss Zooms CFO on Squawk box tomorrow morning, she will be breaking down. A Hall of this past quarters pretty unbelievable action back over to. All right. Thank you very much Jersey Bosa with the latest on zoom video. Let's talk about this team and Guile turn to you on this first year the stock is up from its fifty two week low back I WANNA say it was in October of last year to now to the closing bell it's up over four hundred percent. Now it's up about l nine percent on sixteen and a half million shares of volume regular session and it's up another eighteen percent right now after hours on nearly four million shares of volume this is darling for sure but can it keep going like this? It can't right. Well, the the metrics are pretty unbelievable and this is name we've talked about obviously for quite some time. Now, we actually did start talking about it into the fall with that said with this move that you just outlined. Now Zoom now as market cap I, believe of one, hundred, billion dollars, which makes it larger than Boeing and it makes it larger than starbucks. I. Understand. They're not com I'm just pointing that out just for the just so you Can get sort of wrap your head around what's going on. For example, by the way in terms of revenue volume will do I don't know seventy, two, billion dollars worth of revenue starbucks probably do thirty, billion ish you're talking about, which is going to probably do and they just said it two and a half to three billion dollars revenue understanding. Again, there's growth here. There's obviously not animate play anymore given it. It's one hundred, billion dollars. So nobody's GonNa. By zoom and maybe zoom uses their stock the by. Somebody else. But with that said, if you've enjoyed this ride good for you, I don't see anything wrong with taking some money off the table. Bhawan I. Wonder When you look at your when you look at these charts and you look at what's happening with the valuations, does it give you pause? Is it time to take profits or is this one of those ones where the trend is your friend and you just keep on writing at higher and put on those types top losses? Great Question I. Think it's a little bit of everything. So to answer questions a singly I really think it depends on what your entry point was. If you're up four hundred percent I mean you can take a quarter of your position off and you're playing with house money at the very least. I would definitely do that as far as valuations are concerned I think get traded like A. P something just absurd right so again, I. Think Valuation is also off the table. This is really a question of the quantity and flight to quality and it does it does have that. The. Table, the flight to quality and Zoom Communications. It seems to be an interesting dynamic there. Anyway, thanks very much guys. We've got a lot more fast money coming up. Here's a little taste of what's to come. BIG GAINS FOR SMALL CAPS won't take a look at a couple of names at might be setting up a real rally and leader has macy's been able to put the worst behind. It won't take a look at what options traders are saying I had to the retailers big earnings report we got that and a lot more when fast money returns. Welcome back fast money stocks trade near record highs. There's one key area of the market that's been sitting out this rally, the S. and P. Five hundred has gained around nine percent this year, but the W M that's the ticker for the Russell Two thousand ETF, which tracks small caps is down close to six percent on the year, but our next guest says. There's still some big opportunity brewing in that cap arena. Let's bring in. Nancy prile Senior Portfolio Manager at Essex Investment Management Nancy. Thank you very much for joining US tonight. Let's talk about the small caps story. A lot of folks used to say, it was a leading indicator of things. It doesn't seem to be these days. What's the? WHAT'S THE STORY WITH SMALL CAPS? While there are two things with small caps. One of course is earnings growth which matters for all stocks and kill. Recently small-cap earnings growth has been were asking the big companies particularly the companies that we've all been talking about the stocks. However, one thing I would point out is that coming out of La. And into the mid two. Thousand. Fourteen zero. Those large cap stocks were actually much cheaper than their smaller cap stocks despite the fact that earnings growth was faster today, we have the opposite. The smaller cap stocks are significantly cheaper than their larger cap stocks and coming out of the second quarter we seem greater earnings revisions on the smaller side. We think that sets the stage for a big rebound and small-cap stocks were particularly excited about small companies that are fro companies that are just selling out value relations are so Nancy I was wondering why we were just showing. Viewers out there and listeners. If you're listening on Sirius Xm right now, the chart we just showed was basically the performance of the S. and P. Five hundred alongside the Russell two thousand it was tracking very closely up until the pandemic lows and then there's been a gap. So Nancy I wonder then from a standpoint of covert nineteen, how much was the virus pandemic? The story here people wanted to focus a little bit more on those quote unquote safer large cap names as opposed to the ones with smaller valuations I could have more risk. Right now is very much reported, and so what we saw in those lovely eighteen or nineteen days in March is that liquidity and Marquette really were it of performance and investors were rightly taking shelter and companies that were perceived to have better balance sheets more stability perhaps safer prospects going forward. Now, small cap stocks have had an extraordinary move post that sell off the market fraud and March money error but math being the way it is even with that strong move that is outpaced many of the larger centers they still haven't. Quite up for the year again, we believe that they will follow earnings growth and so as earnings come through and as earnings prospects improved more broadly for more companies with a resurgence American economy that will vote Ralph is more caps sector. All right. It is fast money. We talk about socks picks we can't let you leave without giving us some of your own. So Nancy, as you look at your portfolio, which types in which small cap companies are the ones that will lead this rally so to speak in small caps super. So we're looking for growth stocks, but we want growth stocks that are selling prices that do not reflect your future growth prospects were looking for companies that are innovators were looking for companies can gain market share some of the areas that we like what we're seeing very disruptive technologies are the of Attack Fintech on some of the e commerce, as well as a lot of work that's being done particularly personalized medicine I have a few. You can see from the board here that playoff those names be happy to talk that. All right. So what we have shown here is plural sites Elf beauty and full giant genetics. Those are the Stock Pittsburgh Nancy right there. Nancy. Thank you very much for joining us with with everything that you've had on the small cap story. We appreciate it. Thank you. All Right Guy you've pointed out the underperformance of those small cap stocks. How many? How much does it worry you to see the Russell Two thousand underperforming the S&P by as much as it is right now. Yeah, well I think you have to understand I I wake up word. So it absolutely worries me and it's the I W which measures obviously the Russel's probably up sixty five percent or sixty percent since that march low and it's still nowhere near that one seventy, two level that it topped out. So that's concerning for sure and you know I'm all for the resurgent economy I just don't really see it happening for myriad of reasons. Not least of which we still seem to find ourselves smack DAB in the middle of this pandemic. So I, understand why one would want to be bullish small caps. I just don't see the environment for it. I will say that Elf is a pretty interesting company. They just signed a deal with the Lisa keys I believe in the beginning of the month which got the stock back. To this one, thousand nine and a half level, which is topped out at a close above twenty few technicians out there of which Carter worth is one and I think the stock is set to make another new high. All right. So Carter, let's let's round up the discussion here with you with charts. Tell you anything about whether or not that small-cap story plays catch up with the large-caps. So, I think the point of picking good growth name small-cap large-cap doesn't matter, but it's really about the weighting of the Russell two thousand we know right that the Russell two thousand waiting and financials is twenty one percent versus the SNP at ten. So you're so dependent on all of those banks, all of which you are struggling with their CNI, all of which are. Getting no interest margin on their lending. That's one of the issues, the second of course, waiting in Tech Russell, two thousands weighty versus the SNP it's eleven percent yes p. is almost twenty nine. So you need a things to go right which as of now, you've got a waiting issue that almost make it impossible for the small cap index itself to catch up in. Tech collapses in the SNP. All right. It's a big story for sure there. Thanks guys will come up with the show the Oracle of Omaha making a big bet on Japan. What signed does that send about investing in the United States? We will get some answers coming up and don't forget to stick with us for a bonus edition of fast money six PM eastern time tonight tweet us all your burning questions at CNBC fast money. We may just answered them live on air more fast money coming up after the break. Welcome back to fast money. The Oracle of Omaha is making a big Bet in Japan billionaire investor Warren Buffett announcing Berkshire Hathaway has bought more than five percent stake in each of Japan's leading companies. The purchase is valued at over six billion dollars bought a win. Is this a sign that there are opportunities here in the US or that they may be dwindling if Berkshire is going to Japan for these types of investments? Man First and foremost. Anytime Warren Buffett is making a move you've got to take into consideration I, mean there's you just don't fight it. The guys track record is undeniable now I think this speaks to at least the way I'm reading it it does speak to to fiscal policy right fiscal monetary policy and we've had a flood of support a flood of liquidity here. Japan. Has had its issues and they've made a very strong commitment to loose monetary policy they've. Also been stimulating the economy fiscal the end looking to restructure their corporate policies and politics. So what I think he's saying is that listen there's some similarities here I see some like for like and I think that they may be a bit more adept and there's a regime change at actually how they're going to handle that and it makes sense diversify out of the United States to an extent you couple that with this investment in gold. Yes I definitely think it's at least to me it's sending a pretty strong signal I don't think you rotate out of US stocks, but I, think this is more of a diversification play. So Karen, I go to you with. This idea here that there could be more or fewer. Elsewhere, outside the US are you of the mind, there are better opportunities outside of the US stock market right now. We'll be looking at the things that he bought. I mean those are trading at prices that P multiples we don't have anything like that for the scale of the companies that he bought there. So I have some diversification sees. Some in Japan just ETF's in Japan, but I my focus is always in the US I. Think he probably would've liked to do something but the markets corrected. So quickly in both the equities and debt, and he's done debt deals in the past that I think the debt correction was so fast and so furious that there wasn't time to get anything done. So I I'm intrigued by what he by his foray into the Japanese conglomerates but I there really cheap but they've been really cheap for a really long time as well. He wait he's patient. He is patient for sure he and his top lieutenants, Ted Wessler and todd combs top stock pickers out there. We'll see if those picks in. Japan. Pan Out for them, it will come up a controversy with a side of fries. Get your snacks ready because we'll have the latest on the McDonald's Ex CEO drama saga, whatever you WanNa, call it. That's coming up next plus we've got a bonus hour for you tonight, and we are taking your questions, tweet us and CNBC fast money will tackle him live on air stick with us. We're back after this break. Welcome back to fast money another twist emerging today in the ongoing battle between McDonald's and its former. CEO Steve easterbrook Kate Rogers joins us now with the latest developments there i. Don that's right. McDonald's firing back at its former CEO Steve easterbrook in a new filing in the company's lawsuit against the former executive today McDonald's telling CNBC in a statement quote when McDonald's investigated Steve. easterbrook live and goes on to say that his argument that he should not be held responsible for even repeated bad axe is morally bankrupt and fails under the law McDonald's is suing easterbrook. For fraud destroying evidence and moral turpitude. After they say, he lied to investigators about having multiple sexual relationships with employees. The suit would clawback is severance package estimated to be worth more than sixty million dollars by executive compensation from Ecuador easterbrook claims that the suit should be dismissed in part because he did not hide his own misconduct well, enough in investigators according to him should have uncovered it. On their own a source familiar with the matter tells me the company's investigation right now is, of course focusing on Easterbrook, but also currently having an emphasis on the McDonald's HR department that investigation includes leadership and former HR chief David Fairhurst who reportedly repeatedly made women at McDonald's uncomfortable at company events fairhurst departed shortly after easterbrook and the company's new HR chief Heidi Posey is heading up. A full review of the department and its policies we have reached out to the attorney for Mr Easterbrook no response yet, but we'll bring any updates as we get them back over to you are. Thank you very much kate Rogers for the latest McDonald's corner worth we go to. You hear what do you make of this latest move from McDonalds I mean is this still the Golden Arches? Well, let's just talk about the subject at hand just for two seconds I mean, look the first thing infidelity that's been around a long time not to excuse it but it is what it is. The second issues if you're in the situation, doesn't a gentleman stand up and say, Hey, you know I I I'm giving the money back I mean come on. So as to McDonald's the chart. Looks pretty good. I'd like to be long. All right. He wants to be Long Guy Adama. You're shaking your head there is this a situation where McDonald's is something I? Mean you know these? No cates reporting is fantastic. Just terms of the stock I mean if you think about what's going on and people are starting to write about this McDonalds. Almost more than any other companies really poised to be successful in an economic downturn and the stock is telling you all. You need to know about what people think the economy is gonNA look like in the next few months series of higher highs and higher lows since that March low and that two hundred, twenty dollar level which. Basically where we were this time last year is absolutely in the crosshairs. So I think McDonald's grinds higher from here. So I'm with CBW for sure. What do you think is McDonald's a by at these levels. I'm not fighting the chart master. I'm with them here you know at at the end of the day I, mean the scandal we're talking about thirty seven, Million Dollar Club Latte clawback I don't think that really translates into the fundamentals or technicals of the stock itself. Alright Karen Feinerman right now we have nine strong buys. Seventeen buys nine holds no cells. No underperforms McDonald's is this a consensus kind of buy and hold it tight pick. I think. So I mean, I agree with guy that. I mean I think the pandemic will allow them to actually speed up changes in their business that we're starting already starting digital having success there. So I don't own it. I feel bad that I've kind of missed it but As salacious as other part of the story is. Maybe meaningful if he were still there. In the CEO role but he's not. So it is interesting though just as a boy year I guess. But it's a great company that didn't tremendous job and I think like starbucks they will come out of this pandemic stronger. All right corporate soap opera for sure McDonald's right now. Thanks guys. Let's switch gears. If if we can't hear, we're in the middle of a retail renaissance nobody told me sees though the department store is still down more than sixty percent. This year and options traders are not convinced that Wednesday's earnings report will do much to help this stock get back on track. By Co has the action for options action. Good afternoon. Mike. Dom So. Yeah. We're taking a look at macy's here with created about three times. The average daily volume right now, the options market is implying a move of about sixteen percent that compares to about seven point one percent for the past eight reported quarters I would point out that, of course, the market capitalization of the company is about two point one billion in the enterprise values about nine billion you compare that to six point eight, billion in twelve billion respectively on the historical numbers, and you would see that actually the move implied it's kind of in line relative to the enterprise value the business, the biggest trade we saw a sale of the weekly six. Strike puts that sale took place at around twenty cents. The seller of those puts his obviously willing to get long the stock at that six dollars strike price that's considerably below the seven dollars or so where the stock currently closed so would actually have to move that sixteen percent to the downside or more before the put seller saw any losses. So I wouldn't necessarily call this a hugely bullish bet, but it does express some confidence that the worst may be over. All right. We're showing viewers right now listeners six dollars and ninety seven cents is where macy's closed regular trading today. Mike Oh Thank you very much always great to get your thoughts appreciate it. Our care and what's your take on macy's here it is a retailer embattled. Should we be buying? No I don't think. So unfortunately I mean we've seen a couple of tellers Kohl's Nordstrom actually Kohl's decent numbers but no guidance, and I'm very pessimistic before the pandemic on the future of department stores. But one other thing I always look to the debt markets I to give us a sense and you know I'm looking at. Matures in February of twenty three. So not very long from now, and it's trading in the low eighties which which means. They're not that confident in macy's as a credit. So I. Wouldn't own the equity stocks low, but it's actually not cheap. It also trades it on a trailing basis of four about four times earnings probably for a reason. Carter. Worth your thoughts on macy's. We'll just put it in perspective if you think about this stock in financial crisis low in a way, it was five dollars and twenty cents, and here he is essentially at its financial crisis low and that's after a big ricochet all the way back up to seventy or thereabouts. Stocks to business. Companies do business and a lot of companies like this have gone out of business I wouldn't want to own this. Baldwin what do you think macy's I wouldn't own it I mean. As we've all said, I mean the dynamic just the the the environment of online retailers and sales has has changed and I don't think macy's has really kept up to speed with that said the put cell makes a Lotta sense as a short-term put going to erode pretty rapidly decay pretty rapidly and there's long. Long term support around that six dollar level. So you can take premium. Probably, probably bounce us from that level. So I actually liked the trade don't like the stock all right get paid and maybe buy the stock at a lower price guys. Thank you very much for more options action. By the way, be sure to tune into the full show Friday, five thirty PM eastern time right. Here on CNBC. We'll coming up next your final traits keep it right here. Back the fast money take a look at shares of rack space dropping after the company's first earnings reports since going public though, well off the after hours lows, the cloud company posted a nine percent rise in sales and one hundred percent jump in bookings shares were up ten percent in the trading day just getting back above its twenty one dollar IPO price as a slew brokerages initiative. The stock with positive ratings Karen Rack space is it one worth owning? Its in the cloud space anything tangentially related even as great. But I bought it after the close today after they announced earnings when the stock traded down and the reason was because everybody came out today was the day they can I come out with the estimates and price targets and everybody was obviously very bullish. They also happen to be an overlap of WHO underwrote the deal, but it made me just think you know what they must. Have known what these earnings are and think that they're fine and so maybe the market's overreacting to the earnings because they got the stock got so pumped up on all the analyst reports. So for that reason I bought it after the close today. All right. There's a nice trade for care and right now we'll see how it pans out over the next coming week here it's time for the final trades around the Horn Carter Hugh I. Making all time highs starbucks fifteen percent below its all-time highs for buyers are virus starbucks, Karen? Feinerman. Just, sticking with my one rex face, that'll be my final trade. All right rack space they're GONNA win. How about you? saw a little weakness in the builder space today I'd be buying on weakness by some dibs x HP X. HP the home builder's ETF there and gig guide dummy when September ends Mr Green Day and Georgetown. Go. Yeah. Glad. You mentioned that. Jon Thomsen. Hawks. Yes. Yeah. Horrible. Obviously. Harbor News Seventy Eight. He was thirty years ahead of his time rest impeach coach Thompson thanks for being here. Dumb. You are the man and I tell you that McDonald's story. Got Me thinking it's going to break above that to twenty one level. So NCD for my final. All right thanks guys very much and thanks everyone for watching fast money. Don't go anywhere. We've got a bonus hour of total request fast style coming up after this break keep it right here rendering your questions live on the air. A bonus hour fast. Money starts right now. I'm dom chew in for Melissa, Tonight Jim Cramer's off this week. So tonight, we're answering all of your questions about the hot stocks trading right now that's right we want to hear from you. So tweet us at CNBC fast money with me tonight the tribunal Karen. Feinerman Bonna when I assume and Carter BRAXTON WORTH CDW coming up on the show zoom just reporting revenues Plod, Drubel Drubel from last year we'll have a meeting about what to do with that stock now of. Video one force plus one new to all this you're asked what does today's split mean for the future of Apple, our traders will explain and later on. If you sit through the whole bonus hour, you'll be rewarded with gambling and pot that should be enough. We're not going to say anything else right now but just keep an eye on those words. So I up zoom blowing earnings expectations out of the water and it's no surprise. It's been a stock on our viewers minds. Let's get right out to our first question. Fast money team. Thanks for taking my question. This is Jack from Massachusetts at asked about zoom in July on mad money on flying up with a bit of a different question. It's wondering for a shareholder zoom right now who wants to see long-term growth from the stock what's a good target time line for holding and then selling the stock down the road Right holding period that's the key question, their bottom, and we'll toss this to you I. Well, we we touched on a bit on the last segment, and so really it's a question of where you got in for a lot of people it seems like they've gotten. Through three, hundred, four, hundred percent return on their money. So taking a commensurate amount of money off the table started the corresponding. Off The table just so that you're playing with house, money makes a lot of sense but I do question right if they already owned fifty percent of the adjustable market how much more can that groping that we've had a pool Ford of Covid? So with that said, it's not about timeline to me. It's about technical levels I would put the fundamentals of side you said a level. If it breaks that level, I will be taking an increasing amount of money off of the table technical Lebanon's on the technical levels begs the question for say Carter Braxton worth are there levels that you were watching in a stock like zoom? Well. If you think about it once shared all-time highs. Of course, there are no reference points an an stock like this where evaluation is either on knowable or undoable. It's really as much as the imagination will allow but in terms of holding periods in its purest sense growth investing and it's just about are you continuing to see top line growth that beats and guides higher rose margins operating leverage and as Long as that's the case you never sell and that is that is the timeframe for sticking with something. It is truly being treated as a disruptor and a growth asset growth manager or investor Karen. Feinerman there's no doubt that zoom is a disruptor. It's obviously shown some of that strength, but oftentimes, we breed competitors in these kinds of environments is zoom communications. SAFE has is it's both deep enough so to speak. I think the mode actually is pretty deep I mean just think about it. It's a verb right and so like a Netflix that we've talked about competitors for years, deep-pocketed competitors and it really hasn't seem to matter and I think zoom may be in that same situation. So but I agree with with bond win that. If I were Moore. Trading oriented I'm not but I did have these enormous gains that I would take some off the table and then just let let the rest ride. But normally we think about you know business plans over years. This has happened in a matter of months. So we're looking at a very different sort of time line than we normally would would the valuations? I don't know how many years of growth in six months so I would hang onto some but I would feel like I gotta take a little bit off the table I mean zoom chart is pretty much what you would define as parabolic if you look it up in any kind of a stock traders bulk or anything else if it's such, a thing exists guys. All right. Let's move onto the next one here we've got stock splits in both apple and Tesla taking effect today our next viewers got a question on the moves for those split stocks. How you doing my name is Taryn call from Scotteri New Jersey. A minute trader just started in March. So have a couple of questions about the apple in Tusla splits My main issue is I want to know what are your thoughts on it? Is this something that I should be buy more shares of holding or it? Alright Karen firemen we'll toss this one to you hear that this idea of splits first of all, we know it doesn't change the fundamentals of any kind of valuation. It's cosmetic about price but how exactly would you trade these given splits? Well I own I own apple split. I'm not trading them around that at all. It's not a factor but good for him for starting in March I mean half of being right timing or more. That that's actually an extraordinary time to get started if it was later in March, that would really be fantastic but I think to me it's it's more about the fundamentals and so apple actually there are fundamentals that that I can get comfortable with it's expensive but I see where there's valuation the valuation can make sense Tesla have a lot more trouble with so that one if I did own some I'd sell some apple I'm sticking with it other shake my head every day can't believe it's up on the same news of stock split for weeks now. Bought a win the stock splits story. Is there a reason why people would want to buy a stock after a split goes into effect in the stock essence goes from being say a hundred dollar stock being split four for one to four twenty, five dollars stocks at the same time. Is there a reason fundamentally don't want to buy these types of stocks No is there a reason fundamentally absolutely not but I don't think this is a story of fundamentals. This is a story of stimulus and liquidity, and if you look at essentially what's been going on, right you have people out of the POS at outlaying fifteen hundred dollars, two thousand dollars or four hundred dollars five, hundred dollars. Now they're outlaying one, fifty, one, twenty, and five, hundred sorry, three hundred. So it's to me it's like two things the retail investor. and. Cosmetics as you said and fractional shares aside I think it's not about fundamentals but you've got to pay attention to what's going on and if people enough people believe that the stock split a positive and the stock continues to rally than the stocks going going to continue to rally hates down the question it's not fundamentally induced however, clearly people believe the story and that's the reason why you. Buy, but that's a bubble to me. You're buying it because you think someone else is GonNa pay more for it is apple a bubble Carter I wonder because we talk about this notion that perhaps these things are fundamentally driven or not fundamentally driven we we know that with free trading zero, commission trading, and fractional shares the price shouldn't matter yet. People seem to be bullish on stocks split stocks. Why? Well in the simplest form, think about why companies split. We know over time past one hundred years the average listed stock going back one hundred years is thirty five bucks. And then it gets to about nine hundred and then people typically split because they want the retail investor participate. It's a reason that Warren Buffett never did he didn't want. People manipulating stock by ratings and so forth. So yes, there is a nominal where the lower price of tracks an investor group but in terms of whether apple's a bubble. Ultimately at some point, right you're just to. Overdone to the downside to it turns out all equities were that way on the march low so apple can triple from here. It doesn't matter what was long view is but the arc it's traveling now is well, let's use Karen vitamins whereas ridiculous it's steep. Uncorrected and risky. Alright. Big Moves for sure. Not just zoom. Down, can I add one more thing absolutely Karen? So. Just one thing we know that okay. The retail investor can get in companies that normally are doing well are the ones that announce stock. So there is that momentum and conversely a reverse stock split is a terrible thing that's companies that aren't doing well, that announcement alone often is enough to send investors fleeing as they should. For sure a signal sometime, only only companies doing well tend to split their stocks in that kind of a situation. All right guys. Let's move onto our next question. We've got one coming up on another headlining stock from Ryan in Michigan. Given, that the dining restaurants fed a lot of pressure during this cove in nineteen era and with the CEO's scandal reappearing as McDonald's still the best breed in the fast food industry and is it still a good option to have the sort of exposure if a vaccine is found? All right. So Carter we'll start with you first on this one McDonald's what's the story there. Well. I it's a I like it. We discussed it earlier. In the show and I think it's going to break out to new highs we know that. It's march low, and where it is now is foreshadowing of people returning to the office or their normal workday. All Day breakfast is a big part of their business I like, McDonalds. I. Like starbucks I think these are two names that are laggards that have potential to really play catch up with the SNP. Bought A win. There are a handful of McDonald's locations just anecdotally speaking near where I live and they are almost always fairly well trafficked people are going in their their ordering curbside pickup they're doing something but seems like McDonald's is navigating cove nineteen better than a lot of other restaurants out there. What do you think? I think an industry leader I mean and just a few segments back talked about essential business and whether or not you just had the ability to operate with the drive through phenomenon and you have all of the different. Curbside services or delivery services they can continue to kind of operate regardless of the situation right I mean if you look at their debt load I mean it's grown a little bit over time I'd. I'd really like to see that free cash flow to debt kind of balance out a little bit but I mean the the business model is undeniable strong gross margins they've continued a trend higher strong. Net margins those continue to trend higher. You've seen a recent pullback as of late but McDonald's I mean their business model, the real estate that they own, and essentially they're bringing in entrepreneurs to run those businesses. I think it's a phenomenal business model and I think it continues to grind higher as well. All right. Some of the stocks that have done well in navigating Kovic. Karen. Have Been McDonalds subway. Is Up there. Maybe yum brands as well. Domino's Pizza Papa. John's is McDonald's the one for you when it comes to food or are there other ones out there catch me Roy Moore? Will McDonalds is one of them for sure. But I actually domino's I think is they were really ahead of this game they started being a technology company before restaurants felt like they needed to be a technology company and so while the the stock is cheap I do think they've done an extraordinary job and I think the pandemic has allowed them to accelerate. So that would be one as well. All right McDonalds and domino's talking about those particular stocks and fast food. Thank you guys very. Much, we are just getting started on total request fast money still to come on the show United Airlines makes a bold move that has the question of fees up in the air for competitors American responded by the way this afternoon plus what did you, what they lesser known tech, name Nipping at the heels of the big dogs and keep those questions coming in tweet us at CNBC fast money and we may just answer your question on air stick with us. We'll be back after this. Welcome back to a special bonus hour fast money where we are taking your questions. Before we get to our next question, you've got United Airlines taking the lead in waving one of its most longstanding and lucrative fees. Our own Philibeaux is on the CNBC newsline to explain to us what's going on Phil this is a big. Well it is dumb and what you have is United Airlines starting all of this by making the announcement yesterday that it would be waving permanently the ticket change, which is a two hundred dollar fee that you would have to pay if you were going to change your ticket American and Delta. Ticket change fees and what they did today they also decided you know what we're GonNA follow united lead. We are not going to be charging a ticket change being the future, and this is a big deal US airlines, not just American Delta and united but all US airline collected two point eight billion dollars that's billion with a B.. In ticket change revenue last year, and here's how it breaks down for the three largest legacy airlines. Delta brought in the most at eight hundred and thirty million dollars last year followed by American, and then you have united at six hundred and twenty, five, million dollars speaking of Delta this afternoon on the closing bell. The CEO of Delta at Bastion. Point Blank. Look did you make this move because your competitor united started with this? Here's what he had to say. We are a competitive industry. There's no question about it but I would I would label today's announcement Delta's confirmation of the path we're on since we already previous announced it but WE WANNA make certain that we're providing the greatest value and the best pricing opportunities to our customers as I'm sure competitors wanted to do the then. He wouldn't say it but you can bet all of these guys watch each other and when one airline makes it move like this the others take note and often follow by the way. All of this is in response to the fact that you have an industry that is just not rebounding the way many expected it to airline passenger levels still hovering down sixty seven to seventy three percent compared to the same time a year ago, and by the way over the last ten days, we've had negative airline travel numbers week over week. So it continues to pull down just a little bit. We're not going down to the April lows, but it is certainly not growing southwest airlines is the. Airline out there that does not charge a ticket change fee, and when you look at the success, they've had saying look, we don't charge ticket change be we're not going to charge you for checking. Your first two bags I think people have responded to it over the years. Now you see United American Delta all saying look we have to do whatever we can for customers let's wave that feet. Phil before we let you go just one point of clarification, it is not all ticket change fees, right? Basic Economy, which is what people look at the Internet does still have a lot of restrictions with regard what you can travel with, but it is changing now American today and we're not gonNA get into all of this American today made a number of changes adding more flexibility and. If you will perks for the basic economy ticket that's going to be the next area where you'll likely see changes with a number of the carriers American announcing that today, and you're going to see this in this industry. They know that they have to get people on board as much as possible anything to give people traveling again Philibeaux. Thank you very much. Always pretty your thoughts sir. You Bet now let's get over to that viewer question on that. Airline sector. Led to get some perspective around the near future and the long term. Of Airline stocks which airlines are best positioned and best boys to come back if we were to get a vaccine sometime the end of the year. And also what would be the ramp up time? To once we get a latte seen to get things back to normalcy to get travel back to normalcy, and how long does it take to reflect that into stock price? All right that's a pretty involved question bottom win I. Know You're listening. What do you think airlines near long term? What's the outlook? Very, multifaceted question. Listen I think this is tremendous I mean it's showing giving value to the consumer. I think is tremendous for them, but to essentially get rid of a large revenue generating. I don't see any capital associated with actually charging a fee, right so a high margin large revenue product I. think that's tough. I don't think that necessarily bodes well, but it's all about restoring value and confidence to the consumer whether it be wearing masks or clearing. The Middle Aisle are being more accommodative I think that is. A trend and I don't think for a second but they're not looking at each other and moving in lockstep. I think the same announcement came on in the same day as for the outlook on the particular shares. I think you've gotta look at the balance sheets. I think American is still probably the most debt-laden I. Think Delta and United had some of the best, some of the better excuse, my French gross margins going into this going into the situation. But I'm not really a fan of these high Beta epicenter type of trades right now I think we're still in the early innings I have no idea I'm not A. Doctor I don't know how long it would take to get back to new normal. I don't think normal is what we know it to be in the past and I think there's still a lot of challenges in terms of adopting a vaccine and how long it will take for for that to translate. So I think this is probably a six to eighteen month type of thing. No need to rush now Karen. Feinerman. Is it melodramatic to say that there's a new world order when it comes to? NHS, if for the longest time, these airlines did everything they could to squeeze every penny of profits. They jammed planes they cut back flights put capacity there perhaps even overbooked. It was all there to try to maximize the amount of revenue that they get every flight here you've got people with no. Middle seats filled you've got a lot sparser kind of booking on these types of planes. Is this what we can expect from the airline industry in the years to come. I don't know about the years to come, but I would think certainly for the year to come I mean you're right they. They were able to squeeze every penny out and we saw how profitable they were year after year for the last several years until the pandemic. But now obviously the tables have turned and the customers are far fewer and the seats available are far greater. So you're seeing complete change of you know who's got the upper hand the customer clearly does but I, agree with everything with Bond Winston. I'm very concerned about the. Balance Sheets here and I'm concerned that you know we talk about it on fast when we talked about zoom and what a game changer that was, and if you think about the business traveler I think that has changed materially maybe not forever. But certainly for certainly for the next year, even if there is a vaccine and you know we have so many companies that have said, you don't need to come to to work in our office for the next year at least. So That's interesting to me I. think that is a very significant change so I wouldn't be interested in the airlines they've obviously they've had to. They were able luckily to be able to to sell debt to be able to get them through hopefully to the other end. But now you have the stocks that are maybe half or down by more than that. But the balance sheets are very bloated. So I have no exposure in the industry, I can't foresee it for for a while. big take on the airlines here. Thanks very much coming up on the show in technology. It's a dog eat dog world, and if you're this particular dog seems you've been pretty hungry but one you're wants to know if there's more meat on this particular bone will all find out together with regarding data dog and speaking of together what to do before the Tick Tock merger decision. Stick with us we. Are. Back in two minutes. Welcome. Back to our special edition bonus edition of fast money in which we are answering your questions. The next one is about a lesser talked about technology name but before we get to it, our own Josh Lipton has some insight that might explain the sudden interest in what's happening with data. Dog Josh. So Dom- you're right. It's not a name. We talk a lot about here but data dog has rocketed higher surging about one hundred and twenty percent so far this year in the past five months alone doubling its market cap to twenty five, billion data dog offers a platform allowing customers to monitor the performance of their APPs, networks and computing infrastructure. For example, let's say you're an IT. Manager at a retailer, you can use data dogs tools to make sure your company's APPS are all working. They should that's important because so many more people are now depending on online services data dog helps companies spot technical issues if and when they pop up customers include Samsung, activision Sonos and dreamworks just to name a few Jack Andrews at Needham says, rivals here would include Cisco new relic. And increasingly slugged but he argues data dog boasts first-mover advantage strong technology that it's capitalizing on an important area of it spend, and he's a fan. He tells me of CO founder and CEO Olivier PA- Mel giving him high marks for creating a company. He says that's growing strongly while remaining capitol efficient on the other hand other analysts I spoke with da Davidson's Andy Nowinski say the company Is the gold standard in this market, but concerns about valuation at these levels and the company is not immune to economic turbulence. Either earlier, this month saying macro uncertainty is having an impact data dog did finish August with a drop of eleven percent Dombak to you. All right. Thank you very much. Josh slipped in for that. Update on data dog that brings us to our next viewer question. This is calling from Kentucky I wanted to ask about data dog I bought it back in November in the low thirties and what's more at sixty I was wondering whether I should take profits now. Hold onto for awhile. Thanks. Our at bonded when the stock closed the regular session at eight dollars and fifty five cents. Light Josh points out the twenty five billion dollar company. Now, what do you do with data dog? What do I do with data dog if I'm him and I owned at fifteen and then bought some more at thirty I, definitely take some chips off the table and this isn't about picking tops or bottoms. This is about staying in the game being a profitable trader and exercising prudent risk management I don't need to even look at the stock chart. If you've bought stock in fifteen and thirty, you take off the table at eighty three and then you go on about your Mary Way and giving it not to Karen. She pointed this out in the last segment you're involved in cloud computing, even tangentially the likelihood that you. are going to have positive momentum going forward. I think is quite high. So yes, I can see this thing continuing to trend higher, but it's a it's a mixed bag there. You've got to do it in the right way that maximizes your profitability profitability and minimizes your downside. But KPI optimization I think that's a tremendous business to be in. They are an industry leader there and I can see the utility of that type of technology. Absolutely. All right KPI. Key process indicator for those viewers out there who aren't familiar with that quarter Braxton worth I'm looking at CBC Dot Com right now the data says that on a trailing basis. Of, this company get this. Eight, thousand, seven, hundred, and three. What does that tell you if anything about whether you would own it Just tells we can't rely on that. But what we do know is this just as a matter of technique when stock gets reiterated, it usually follows through for a bit in the direction of the rerating and I'm not talking about an analyst community I'm talking about price action when salesforce gaps up zoom gaps up, there's often follow through. We'll this stock cap down on its earnings on August eighth a lot of. Talk about decelerating revenue or maybe ahead of itself in terms of valuation, if you can even use those words, but the point is a drop in gap on heavy volume August seven, twenty million shares traded versus average daily a four that's usually something to start to move away from, and then of course, bungles making the good point if you go if you've got gains like that. It's time to move on. All right. Thanks guys for the thoughts on data dog here. Let's stick with the tech theme with our next question from Henry and Alex in California. My question today is who do you think is your brand and the Tiktok to you or Or Walmart and Microsoft and why? My follow up question is what impact you think acquisition will have on the winning company stock price in the short long-term. Great questions. Carter. Braxton worth will go to you here because these are big names that are in the acquisition hunt right now. Right I mean. So I can't speak to you know. So who's got the upper hand in terms of? Tiktok who's got this space better than that and it's it's really. The antithesis of looking at price action what we know right is, let's take Walmart. For instance, a very good stock that's now under pressure. Or other retailers X. RT itself has taken a bad hit to the downside after stretching and so. Just, stick with if you can something that is showing reliable growth and is never getting quite so steep as some of the other names we've been talking about for the past hour. Karen Feinerman I wonder if I might get your thoughts here, Walmart is not a small company and it could be partnering with Microsoft, which is not a small company. You've got Oracle not a small company are those? Is there a better suitor in that mix or or somebody else out there that might provide a better fit for TIKTOK. I don't know it seems like everybody in the world is looking at it but I think that my guess and it really is a guess I'm surprised that we haven't had any any leaks about this since it could be a deal announced as soon as tomorrow who knows I microwave off and Walmart to me makes the most sense and I think the company that has the most upside from that is Walmart because I think that can be somewhat transformative for their business in and I think that we're in the process of seeing a rerating in Walmart. Obviously the divergence between the Amazon or the difference between the Amazon multiple and the Walmart multiple backing out aws for taking out their cloud business from Amazon. The retail business of Amazon trades wildly higher than the retail business of Walmart and I think this would be a very interesting acquisition to help them accelerate the ECOMMERCE and to maybe get eight higher multiple doesn't need to be anywhere remotely close. To Amazon's multiple but so to me the stock that has the most bang for the buck here is Walmart and I who knows who knows what anybody's guest but if I had to pick one suitor the Microsoft Walmart Team I think we'll be the winner but I'm not sure Baldwin before we get your thoughts here, what's the most interesting part of this Tiktok story in terms of your investing thesis? I have very little to add in addition to what Mrs Feinerman has has pointed out. I think the market's off. Walmart team makes the most sense between those two suitors at least because of the cloud computing, the online distribution, the distribution physical distribution centers, and the t touch with the retail consumer visa vs a enterprise software company. So just natural synergies I see them being able to integrate that business more seamlessly and unlock value for those reasons are a big discussion there of Tiktok. It continues for sure here. Let's hit the twitter verse now for a tweet. Blaze bullock asks what do you think about buying? J. P. M. J. P. Morgan. Right now Karen we'll go to this one. Okay well, I love Jamie diamond I think Jamie Dimon is the most talented and important financial services. CEO Out there in the world problem. So I am long. J.. P. Morgan and when I think about being long, it doesn't matter to me what my cost basis is. If I went home long that means I'm essentially buying it at the close. So at about one hundred dollars, it's about I believe one point six something percent of book and the question. Is. How bad will the credit losses be before? They can get back on track they'll be really bad. There's no doubt we haven't seen it yet. We haven't seen it really at all in March. We saw them take gigantic provision again, the next quarter they take took Ganic provision they will again this quarter take very large provision but ultimately, I think they will earn. Their way out of this I know urban earn money this year even with those gigantic provisions. So you can't look at the stock on what's going to earn this year next year but all that put together am long I think that you will find value in. JP Morgan. It's GonNa. Take a while but I'm patient we all right more often than not if you're. Investing in financials you've got JP Morgan on the top of one of those shopping list for sure. Thanks guys very much still to come on this viewer driven bonus hour fast money you want to know which company is best position in the race to develop Kovac seeing we're going to find out when this special edition of fast money is back after this commercial break. Welcome back to a special bonus hour fast we are taking your questions and answering them live on air as best we can with the nation still in the grip of covid nineteen the promise of potential vaccines understandably seems to be an important one to you first though let's get an update on where the race for a vaccine currently stands our own Meg. Terrell joins us with the latest there. Good afternoon meg. Hey down, we'll do more news this afternoon Astra Zeneca has confirmed that it is beginning its large face three efficacy trial of its vaccine developed with Oxford University here in the United States. Now, this makes it the third large trial to begin here in the US after Pfizer and Madonna. They say, they plan to enroll up to thirty thousand participants and depending on how that enrollment goes in how the infection rates are where they're running the study. They say they could have results by the end of this year now in dern started their trials. July, twenty seven and you can see here there are already more than half enrolled toward that goal of thirty thousand participants. These era updates they gave over the weekend But of course, there are questions about how fast this vaccine process is going and AstraZeneca and its announcement of the trial starting in the US today also putting out a statement. And really commitment about that its CEO Pascal Story. Oh, saying quote in recent weeks, we've seen an increasing number of questions around the safety and availability of vaccines to fight this terrible Cova nineteen pandemic, and they want to reiterate my commitment that we're putting science in the interest of society at the heart of our work we are moving quickly but without cutting corners and regulators have clear and stringent efficacy and safety standards for the approval of. Any new medicine, and that includes this potential covid nineteen vaccine dom. So speaking there to some of these concerns that we've been hearing that this is moving at record pace and people wanting reassurance that they will be safe and effective in these trials over the art of Big Story for sure. Thanks for keeping us up to speed on the latest on the covid nineteen vaccine race that brings us to our next question from Doug in New Jersey. My question tonight is about the former suitable lottery. Some companies say they have vaccine. That left to keep frozen. Russia and China said, we have a vaccine you're not gonNA. Hit Me with that. My question is to you I have a call option with Pfizer. Forty dollars. Strike Price October, sixteen am I gonNa make it or is my contract sleeping with the Pfizer's? Sleeping with the Pfizer's Bonna when we'll go to you with this one here, Pfizer closed the regular session at thirty seven dollars and seventy nine cents. He's talking about a forty strike call. What do we think about Pfizer? Well. You know what I think if you're in Pfizer you've gotta be liking it for more than just a play on the on the vaccine you've got AstraZeneca now you've got. And you've gotten Madonna. Now I will say there are certain things that I like about Pfizer valuation for one and the fact that they're kind of spinning off or getting rid of their Their. Excuse me drawn a blank here there. Generics business. So there's a lot of things to me that are tell wins for the suck with that. said, I need to know what you paid for that price but I will say is October. Right. You're kind of in that sweet spot around Route Time Vegas where your value starts to a road so I would be looking to probably role that position if you don't get a stock move in pretty short order alright Carter worth go to you here the majority of analysts here on CNBC DOT coms Datasheet for Pfizer have a hold rating on the stock. It also is now down about four percent on a year to basis is this a stock that you want to get involved with? It goes in the bucket of large cap laggard that has the potential to catch up. And so still some eighteen percent off its saw all time high again, SNP making all time highs and so this is the kind of thing if you have a very extended name, an apple, let's let's trim some of that and double back and find something like this like a starbucks like a Pfizer which has line that has up potential. So I think this is one to look at in terms of the timing you're cutting it close but October, you know there's enough time if things go, well, my inclination would be to hold the option. Karen is at Pfizer when it comes to big Pharma or Bio Pharma, or is it somebody else out there? Do you like is a name? and. Like Pfizer is a name You know I think it's it's been a laggard as Carter said I think for these really big names like a Pfizer who's in the hunt and AstraZeneca I think there's so much pressure on them if they do have a vaccine to charge very little for it, unlike Madeira who seems to be interested in maximizing the profit potential and that's fine we need a vaccine I think that. The, other big drug companies will face more pressure. So I would be either in the X. Pi or If you wanted to have exposure to the drug companies or the biotech company. Using. ETF market for that exposure. Thanks guys for that in the thoughts on Pfizer in the covid nineteen vase still to come on the show Coulda plot twist developing in the movie business war. If that's not an investment, you entertain how about something with a little more money on the line more of this special bonus hour of fast coming up ahead. Welcome back to this bonus edition of fast money we are taking your questions and answering them live on air but I, a question for you, how likely are you to go to the movies anytime soon we ask because people overseas are actually surprisingly likely to go to the movies are Julia. Boston is here to explain. The first release since Kovic Warner. Brothers tenant gross over fifty three, million dollars across twenty thousand screens in forty one international markets that debut would have been considered small pre-coded but industry watchers are reassured that this is the biggest ever opening by Christopher Nolan film in nine. Countries Warner Brothers says it's released schedule is a marathon, not a sprint with the film scheduled to open here in the US this weekend ten and performed particularly well on I max screens delivering five million dollars at the box office. It's over nine percent of the weekend box office total and it's by far the biggest late August international box office weekend I max indicating consumer demand. For Max's more premium theatrical experience now here in the new American. Market. Disney Fox's the new mutants drew seven million dollars at the box office at the lower end of expectations dragged down by negative reviews, and also only about sixty percent of theaters were open and they're operating with capacity constraints, theater stocks suffering today on that disappointing us box office AMC entertainment holdings down nearly seven percent will cinemark fell four percent and shares declined two percent one sign of the changing box office Orion, pictures, Bill, and Ted. Face the music grossed over one million dollars despite the fact that consumers could also rent or buy that film at Home Don back to you. All right. Thank you very much Julia Boston with the latest there. Our next question comes from you're also has his eyes on Monday Kevin. Schmidt from the picture I'm calling in today asking about AMC holding some in the money calls expiring in. March and I was thinking that the end of the pandemic stock price may improve on wondering what you guys think about that. Karen. Feinerman let's go to you with this one here. Are you a fan of the silver screen and if so is it AMC? I'm actually not of a couple of reasons. One is that. This was in secular decline before the pandemic hit right we've seen pressure on on theaters and we've also seen a collapse in some cases of time that a movie is released in theaters and the time it's available for people at home. So that has gotten a lot narrower in some cases that's down to zero todd different. So this was in decline before any of this started, and so now obviously the pandemic you. Theaters had been closed for while they're opening up now but they have spaced out seating, and if you think about that that blank that empty seat, right next to you the margin on that empty seat is gigantic. So this is a lot of lost revenue. They've got a lot of debt AMC in particular. So while the stock is low, not a giant fan of it and I look at the dead always to give me a sense of how the market think about a name and I feel like they're always better at understanding flow than the equity markets. And given all that. The. Balance, sheet is just to debt-laden for me all that together, I wouldn't own it. But if I did, I would do it through calls. All right a move there on AMC for sure to watch on the show guys with lots of gambling shutdown many of you are new to the market game but that's no reason to give up on your hobbies just played a new way four if that's too stressful others of you are finding a whole new way to relax we'll roll all the puns together coming up next after the break. Welcome back special edition of fast money. We are easing into the home stretch of answering questions from you our viewers to help us ease nothing like a little friendly wagering and some pot perhaps I a gamble on sports betting. Nico from Scotland. Oppose. Well. I have a question draftkings been watching. CNBC, and hearing that will continue to trend. North. I think sports will continue to come back wondering your opinions. Thank you. All right draft bottle when we'll go to. I don't even know what to do with this because draft kings sports aren't even really going on right now yet this stock has been a real covid play is at one people should be trading in. Yeah I think. So I mean meals has been over this thing and we've seen a bit of a pullback from about that forty dollar level that thirty five dollar level actually got hit on some today. So clearly, I'm a bowl I'm in the cab I listen I like the exposure tie gaming on the online sports betting I realized there's a lot of sports that aren't in play but I think all that's doing is driving increasing pent-up user demand and so listen I like that. Out on the fact that There's not that much brick and mortar load for them. Right so capital light business exposure to growing sector. I'm syllable I'd be buying dips. Care and Feinerman he's buying the dips. Are you a big fan of the sports betting tight play in markets? I have I do think that online gaming it's. This it's been delayed. I don't know how long it'll be before we have regular sports seasons but we will again I have no doubt about that and they'll find other things to bet on as well. So draftkings obviously has been explosive and then pulled back a little bit recently as his pen gaming one that sort of interested me was mgm which the Barry Diller. Position was really interesting to me and I think that he could help them with their online gaming and so to me that's sort of a cheaper way to play a similar theme. All right. That's the online gaming part of the discussion now on tour next companion question about the cannabis sector. Greenland Her New York City in the next few weeks house of Representatives set to make a monumental decriminalization of cannabis bachelor level opening the floodgates day to say also recreated the nation's much-needed strong revenue stream already had the top canvas companies in position however grow generation maybe the leaning. Hajra. POD RETAILER NEW S. When it comes to that supplements, nutrients socializing, and so forth. Grow generation has major competition with power. Now, powerhouse that is Scots Miracle Grow so I ask you can grow generation girl pass Scots Miracle Grow in this vastly growing industry. All right. That's a great question out there. Carter worth will turn to you with this one here I mean the whole the whole for candidates what we think. I mean. So as is the case with so many things that are novel in new they come out of the gate strong and then many falter, and that was the case here with the General Group of pod stocks. There's an ETF of course MJ alternative harvest try to capture the group my haunt us that it's basing bottoming after what has been horrendous. Past two years. So I suspect of long I would do it. All right bond? What do we think are are there particular names that you think in the industry stand out or is this something where you just kind of play the industry with the or play the? With like with Scots Miracle Grow. I like the. Again I owned that as well. I just think in terms of like the regulatory environment legalization and things of that nature. There's still room for a lot of volatility there. There may be companies that come out and have some. Fraudulent behavior trying to pick a in that group when a budding industry just not. The way to play. That's the way I'm playing it. All right. The industry again, a big hit for some of the people playing it Karen. Feinerman let's go to you with this one. Here. Is this an industry that has a secular growth story for the next one five, ten, fifteen years. Yes I do believe it does like Oh beyond me plant-based. This is I. Guess Another plant based one that I actually do think that we're we are going to see growth but. Like the others she guys I would do it through the. Not have to pick which particular one because you know you're playing parts of the the big story but I actually do not have any exposure to the space. are no exposure to the space Carter as you take a look at the way that these charts have developed over the course of the past couple or three years we've seen extreme highs and extreme lows. What exactly do you need to see to indicate that there is an established trend that can develop within these types of stocks? So, just in terms of the ownership when you have this sort of potentially mainstream thing, you had a lot of retail money, the market campus. Mall. Besides people who were given shares on the IPO, mostly retail, and so hence, the huge moves out of the gate, and then the equally huge and commensurate collapses. What you need to see is just what you need to see in any bad situation, a downtrend that stops you need to see basing you need to see just the fact that it's not making new lows, and if you do look at Mj, the alternative harvest ETF, that is what is starting to happen it's been horrendous, but it is not making incremental new lows. The action is developmental. Curative and I would think it's one to again bracing alongside. All right thanks Karen Feinerman, following Aisin. Carter Braxton worth our tribunal for here fast money. We'll have more obviously throughout the course of the summer that does it for us here. We'll be back tomorrow with another supersized edition of Fast Money Shark tank is coming up right after this. No. Opinion. Just the facts I've been a journalist for more than thirty years and there has never been a time when we needed the truth. The facts the truth, the news with Shepard Smith Premier September thirtieth CNBC.

Karen Feinerman Apple Carter Carter starbucks CNBC SNP McDonald facebook Carter Braxton Russell Laura Morton US Microsoft zoom communications macy CEO Melissa Leo McDonald Feinerman Baldwin
20VC: Superhumans Rahul Vohra on How 1-1 Customer Onboarding Can Scale Efficiently to $100M ARR, Why Gamification Does Not Work But Game Design Does & What Game Design Means For The Next Generation Of Product Managers

The Twenty Minute VC

42:09 min | 7 months ago

20VC: Superhumans Rahul Vohra on How 1-1 Customer Onboarding Can Scale Efficiently to $100M ARR, Why Gamification Does Not Work But Game Design Does & What Game Design Means For The Next Generation Of Product Managers

"Welcome back to the twenty minute. Vc and founders with me Harry stubbings. And I always love to hear your feedback on the show and you can do that on instagram. H Dubbing one thousand nine hundred eighty six to bees to our episode day and he's episode. Last year was the most downloaded of the year by far. He's created a product changed much of how we work today and so with that. I'm thrilled to welcome back. A friend and phenomenal found in the form of Rahul Vohra found at superhuman the startup that has rebuilt the inbox from the ground. Up creating the false e-mail experience ever made today's grant holders raised over fifty four million dollars superhuman from some of the best in the business including Andriessen horrors first round Box Group. And then two of my favorites. In Jack Morris Junior Chapter One and Agnelli too bold start and prior to finding superhuman who is the founder repulsive a company later acquired by Lincoln in two thousand fourteen and if that was not enough for Husson investor having co founded a new firm with talk gold boches last year but before we move into the shirts day. I'm sure you've heard about it. But my word this product I love. Carter cotton simplifies. How startups and investors manage Equity Track Camp Tables and get valuation is scheduled to dot Com for slash two zero to get ten percent off more than eight hundred thousand employees and shoulders. Us Carter to manage hundreds of billions of dollars in Equity Carter now offers fund administration. So you can see real time. Data in the Carter Platform work with Carter's team of experience on accountants simply Jakarta Dot Com forward slash Tuesday to get ten percent off and speaking of accuracy for amazing team members. You have to check out. Switch a great stop. Initiative to simulate of town amid the corona virus crisis directly to top startups still hungry to hire switches free for all parties. It's just here to help. It's a free platform by the team behind wanted. The big idea was to create a shortcut between companies. Barring the startups still really hungry to hire so companies can upload that laid off his father startups to hire them on the spot and VC's play crucial world by letting that portfolio companies nerve switch hands. We're featuring them. All Nepal cost switch has now every ten thousand talents. It supported by over one hundred and three hundred solid ups. You really must check it out. Dot is switch help now once you get incredible talents we wanted. They have to be properly equipped. And that's what is coming. Bryce is the company which built a corporate cornerstone ups. And WHO's the false company to reach Unicorn spaces in history bryce founders Henry? Ken Battery built a payments business in Brazil but kept getting rejected for a corporate caught in the states so they built brax with no personal liability up to twenty times card limits. And he's yours. I seven points on Uber and lift for ICE ON BRASS TRAVEL INTO EXCELLENT. Saas software if you're a startup based in the US see if you qualify for Bryce call today at Brax Dot Com and get cold. Fees waived for life by entering the Code Harry during sign up but now very side of town David to Rahul Vohra found unsee superhuman. You have now arrived at your destination. Rahul I'm so excited as we said before you. Absolute most downloaded found absolute Abba with one point. Two million dollars few psyche to that. 'cause I'm sure it paid for my rent's not but sizing but thank you so much for joining me stay Rahul. Thank you for having me back on the show. I would love to start with a little bit on those. Maybe missed our first APP. Said how did you make your way into the world of start? Ups are who and what was that. A half founding moment view with superhuman. This really changed the way we think about email. We'll to understand. The founding moments of superhuman. We actually have to wind the clock back by about ten years so ten years ago in two thousand ten I started a previous company called reported and we built the I g mail plug in to scale to millions of users. When people email to you we showed you what they looked like where they worked their recent tweets links to their social profiles and we grew rapidly and in those two years we shortly acquired by Lincoln and across those four years I developed a very intimate view of email. I could see g mail kissing worse every single year becoming more cluttered using more memory consuming more. Cpu slowing down your machine and still not working properly offline and on top of this. You might recall. People were installing plug ins like how is repulsive but also things like boomerang. Mix Max clip at you name. It they had it and each plug took those problems of clutter memory. Cpu performance of flying and made all of them. Dramatically was so we decided it was time for Change. We imagined email experienced that is blazingly fast where searches instantaneous. When every interaction is one hundred milliseconds or less an email experience? You never had to touch the mouse where you could do everything from the keyboard and fly through your inbox. Email experience. Of course. That just whipped off-line so you can be productive anywhere and email experience. The had the best g mail plug INS built in natively and yet somehow was subtle minimal and visually gorgeous and so with that we built superhuman. And I mean what? An incredible journey has been used to see in terms of kind of user experience. I do you to start on really the mindset that you employ. Cpa when we spoke before you said most companies obsessive what customers wanted to need we. Don't we obsessive about how they feel? So just blunt era hold on before we dive into the granny takes game design was doing well today. The vast majority of how business software feels like work. We have to check our email. We have to submit expense reports. We have to enter data into our CRM. But what I'm asking is what if we could make software feel less like work and more like play with game design we can most of our companies worry about what you want or what uses need but nobody needs a game to exist the Ondo Requirements. Because when you make a game you don't worry about it uses want or need you obsess over how they feel when your product is a game people. Don't just use it. They play it. They'll find it funny. They'll tell friends fool in love with us when we think about Madam. We think about integrating into a product. Today we see levels we see points we see leaderboard see name and I guess my question is how does game? -CATION differ from game design. Well it would start by saying this. Gamification does not really work. Game Design Works but game designers. Not gamification it isn't simply taking your products in adding as you said points levels trophies badges and to understand why game of -CATION does not work. We have to understand human motivation. And that's a very interesting study from Stanford that demonstrates the difference perfectly in the nineteen seventies these Stanford researchers recruited children aged around three to four years old and all of these kids would generally interested in drawing now some kids who told they would get a reward a certificate with a gold seal and ribbon. Some kids were not told about any reward and so they did not expect one or even know of one and each child was invited into a separate room to draw for six minutes and then afterwards they would either get the reward on not an over the next few days. The children were observed to see how much they would continue to drop by themselves. Here's the thing. The children would know. Reward spent seventeen percents of that time drawing but the children who expected a reward. They only spent eight percents of that time. Drawing the reward had harmed them motivation. So what's happening here? We'll researchers differentiates intrinsic and extrinsic motivation with intrinsic motivation. We do things to earn rewards and achieve external goals. And that's the problem with rewards. They massively intrinsic motivation. And that's why gamification does not work when gain fixation does work is because the underlying experience was already a game and so the real question becomes. How do we design a game in terms of designing the game? Then if we take a kind of jumping off point something that you've been obsessed with for a long time. You said yourself all my life. I've obsessed over the question of. How do you design a game? So even the many years that you've had to ponder on it Rafu wherever you landed. What does it take to create a game within a product today? And what's the truth on game design incredibly tough question? I'm sorry for that one will. You're absolutely right. I have been obsessed with this question my entire life as a kid. I learned how to Code just so I could make games. And before I was found I worked as a game designer and as a founder. I've gone deep into the principal's off game design and as it turns out. There is no unifying theory to create games when he should draw upon the art and science of psychology mathematics storytelling and interaction design. And in doing so I found five critical factors and they are goals emotions controls toys and this curious thing that we call flow so I do you want to unpack news. Five one by one and we take them in ton. You mentioned goals that what do they call principles and adding goals to a product. And I guess what makes a good goal well games need goals and as it turns out goals on a defining feature of games. But we can't just have any goals. We need a good goals and for a game. Good goals are concrete. Achievable and rewarding. Okay if you think about how you integrate La Thinking into the Today human. What do you think you've done? In terms of goal setting integrations the price that people use on a daily basis. Well in superhuman we sent a very concrete goal gets to inbox zero and good goals. Must be achievable. This is one of the reasons why we onboard users. In fact it's the main reason why we onboard users for each new US. We do a live concierge on boarding the thirty minute. One-to-one video call one wonderful on boarding specialists and in that cool we teach faster workflows to get to inbox zero. We teach powerful shortcuts. So you never have to touch the mouse. And if you're very far away we wipe the slate clean so that you are within a stones through inbox zero. Thus making the goal more achievable we have concrete. We have achievable and finally the goal should be rewarding when you hit inbox zero you feel triumph over your email previously rat and incredibly rewarding feeling now most business software does not have clear goals and if on goals they are often unachievable. An unrewarding if you want to build software like it's a game then we have to create goals that are concrete achievable and rewarding can hold and this is all schedule. Binod on voting process is so slickened. So seemless you've already been front and center. Creating a whole new category of voting against question isn't it's just out of interest to me. How you feel about him. Was it intentional? To really create entirely new tracks agree of all morning. I have start ups every single day. Said Kay witting superhuman for on Boarding. How do you feel about well? Honestly it's a little bit flattering and absolutely was not intentional. I don't think we set out to invent a new go-to markets motion. It really happened. Organically you see in phase one of the company. It was just myself. I did the first three or four on boardings by myself and they were very different in nature. They weren't Half-an-hour. They were at least one our often two hours long and I would sit down with the user. I would give them a demo of what we built. I would do things like a pricing analysis and interview with them I would of course onboard them and then I would insist on watching them. Hughes Superhuman for about twenty thirty minutes and inevitably in each case I would record five ten bugs that I would insist that we fixed before next week. Because it doesn't make sense to have uses continuously. Experienced the same issues cohorts after cohort. So we did this and in doing so. We noticed that these uses has category leading metrics. That churn was industry. Low that retention was industry high than net promoter score was off the charts they were incredibly viral and I wondered whether it was the go markets or maybe it was some kind of found a magic that I was bringing to the table so I asked our head of growth to do the same thing. He did the next several hundred boardings and it was exactly the same and he had also managed to shrink it from a fairly lengthy one or two hour fag down to forty five minutes and so then he and I asked ourselves. We'll we'll maybe. This could be a thing that actually works. At what point does it start to make units economic sense? Can we actually scale this as a go to market strategy and so we hired our first few onboard specialists? This was face three of the plan and they managed to shrink it down from about forty five minutes to half an hour without really any sacrifice to the quality of the on boarding or how well those users did afterwards. And that's how this go to market strategy came about. Can I get tough on it? And we all buy into the firefighters but in terms of scaling. How do you think are scaling not on boarding to the millions of uses? How does that look? And why so? I think one of the biggest misconceptions is that's you can't scale one to on concierge on boarding to the amount of revenue. Let's say that a venture scale outcome requires and a little bit of back of the envelope. Math shows that simply isn't true one of the simple questions. I always ask myself from my perspective as an angel investor is can. This potential company gets one hundred million dollars of annual recurring revenue. And there's a few reasons behind that I think number one. That's the point at which their billion dollar company and the number two. That's the points at which through revenue they can go into any other realm of business and so it's a question that I think about for super human all the time and because of how efficient the on boarding process is turns out. You don't need that. Many on boarding specialists to get to one hundred million dollars of annual recurring revenue. Let's say that you want to get that in two years. Well in that case you have to be adding north of fifty million dollars of ar every single yet. Each on boring specialists can do in the region of thirty five to forty five calls per week. And if you do the math that it turns out that you only need. In the region of sixty to seventy voting specialists to get to that level of revenue. And as you'll know that's much smaller sales team. Then the vast majority of companies have so it actually turns out to be an incredibly efficient business. Not only away to create delighted customers. I'm so glad I asked that question because then I also think on the back end. Obviously it was way higher attention authorities customer acquisition given the virus. That people are so impressed with so I totally see that what he and. I'm so glad that we did dive into that. I do want to get into the finances and the second that you mentioned was emotion twenty about is how do you think? Five integration of products emotion on emotion. You want to elicit with. Cpi The best games create strong emotions because strong emotions all the foundation of our memory and we must therefore be able to analyze motion and to do that. We need vocabulary now. There are many models of human emotion and the most famous is politics wheel. He identified eight core emotions. Joy Surprise Anger. And so on opposites emotions are crossing each. For example joy is the opposite of grief and on his real. This is really interesting. You can blend adjacent emotions to create more complex feelings for example when you combine joy and anticipation you get optimism and when you combine joy and trust you get love but as game designers we need richer vocabulary than academia provides because the emotions that we are aiming for a much more nuanced the most useful model. I have found is the emotion wheel by the Hunter Institute. It contains the subtleties that we need to think about. And you asked. What kind of emotions do we design for at Superhuman? Well we can deplete about joy and joy has many sub facets we designed for enthusiasm and excitement our uses come to. Us super excited. We designed for optimism and hopefulness. And we use this once superhuman to dramatically improve their lives we designed for pride and triumph for when you hit inbox zero especially. If it's the first time in years you feel like you accomplished something special and when you do hit inbox zero. We showed you stunning and gorgeous. Imagery we do this to widen the emotional repertoire. Beyond joy into love and surprise we pick images that a peaceful and tranquil that creates a sense of belonging and sentimentality. That's even amaze and inspire a sense of or in terms of kind of the incredible emotions you elicit I'm sure you've seen a great variety. I guess my question to you is what have been the biggest surprises. She in the emotions eases elicit went engaging with superhuman today as a product the most surprising thing has been the breadth and variety of the emotions. That we've come across for example in these covert shelter at home days. We can changing the nature of our inbox zero images and we've added some images cozy stay home images displaying peaceful homes the kind of homes. That maybe we wish we could be in if we had the opportunity to do so and it turns out that that is a Danish word that describes that emotion hit and it means something like cozy and secure and this is an emotion that over the last few weeks folks have been telling me that they experienced through our inbox zero pictures and she's specific emotions so specific that is specific to a particular nation. I never would have thought that superhuman could of folk the emotion. I love that in The Hague. And if you knew this but half. Norwegian half Danish so that's fantastic to hear found the fine. The push icing does belie some international variation but I did touch on the third element and he's had controls why control so crucial in game design and again how the implemented them in a positive way in terms of the experience with the product. Controls can be the main reason. Why a game succeeds. Let's consider the we moat. The we sold more than one hundred million units and every single controller since has incorporated motion but gains require much more robust controls. Then we typically make for business software. Imagine you're playing a game like street fighter. Let's say it would be incredibly frustrating? If some inputs were droughts and then your character flopped around and then died and yet that is how business software works today tightly ingredient. I guess my question is. Can you ever have too much control at a product? I don't think you can have too much control because as business software we're coming from above that is so low where the controls are so fragile and so slow. Let's take an example. Let's say I want to email my co-founder Conrad in g mail. The shortcuts to compose an email is c. Let's say I type C and then I type of Conrad now. If I do that at any pace I ended up with two drafts. Wants to come and want to route and a superhuman we had to build auto own keyboard handler to ensure that we never lose key strokes and in case you think on picking grungy mill this kind of error is status quo for business software take any productivity any collaboration tool try and drive. It's hard to the keyboard and more often than not you'll end up in a mess. So what I'm really saying is if you want to build software like it's a game then you need to create rapid and robust controls. That was one that he's had in terms of the factors surprise me and it was toys and so help me out here. Who how did toys differ from games? And how do you think about the link toys into a product? This difference turns out to be fascinating because we play with toys but we play games a ball as toy but football is a game and as it turns out. The Best Games are built with toys. Why because then they have fun on multiple levels to level of toy and all of the game itself. Okay absolutely but if you think about determining whether you have that playful side in your prize how do you measure that playful side in your products and whether you have the toy in or the game? How do you think about that? Well this is best understood by example so I can talk to an example of Toyin superhuman and then share some general questions to help our listeners find their own toys so when superhuman a favorite toy is the time auto completer would choose to snooze and set reminders emails. You type whatever you want. It can be utter gibberish and it does. Its best to understand you. For example to D- becomes two days three h becomes three hours one mo becomes one month now. The time is fun. Because it's indulges playful exploration. What can it do it? Does it break? How does it work? And it's not long before people start to explore these boundaries for example. I wonder what happens if I keep on typing ten will. It turns out about October the tenth at ten ten PM. Well how about a sequence of twos that's February the second twenty twenty to two PM and then we see folks trying more complex inputs like in a fortnight and a day and becoming delighted when it works and it's not long before they find other pleasant surprises for example they type in ATM in Tokyo and they realized that time zone. Math happens without them. Ever really having to think about his so consider the features of your own products. And Ask yourself this. Do they indulge playful exploration? All they fun even without a goal and do they create moments of pleasant surprise. If so congratulations for you have a toy. And you're on the way to building a great game. Can I ask what needs to seriously? How would you analyze theory in terms of that playful exploration in terms of getting the user to test without objective? I think Siri does a remarkably good job for what? I understand the state's of that part of AI and machine learning to be when it does understand you the responses that Siri gives you more often than not delightful playful perhaps even joyful. I think the challenge though that we have when designing toys is for it not to be a frustrating experience because nothing takes you out of the state of mind that a toy can get you to more than frustration. And perhaps it's our British accents Harry but at least for me. Syria doesn't understand me anywhere near as much as some of its competitors at never understands me. I think it's totally the British absence. But I think it's also the union's struggle with those two compared to Henry Partial Bennett's Evans so I'm clearly winning life. Tell me the final one that we spoke about was flow. And honestly I. Fully understand is for rambles Helped me on half fussed and most importantly what is flared and then I guess sectioned. Now we know what it is what conditions need to be in place for flow to a car. We've all experienced flow at one point or another and I would imagine that you get into flow when you're in your dark recording studio talking to all of your guests from across the world colloquially we would say that flow is being in the zone and it turns out to be this intense area of deep psychological research. Technically flow is a state of mind that has six factors number. One flow is an intense and focused concentration on the presence number. Two flow is so absorbing that we don't think about the future or worry about the past number three flow is so demanding that we don't care what others think about this and before flow is so easy that we always know what to do next. Number five. Flu is so powerful. That ultras our subjective experience time time can flush by in an instant or stretch out forever and number six flow is rewarding that the activity becomes intrinsically motivating which as we know from before is the most powerful and effective form of motivation. So in short flow sounds incredible. The question is how do we it? And what are those conditions were conditions for our fivefold number one? We have to know what to do next number two. We have to know how to do it number three. We must be free from distractions than before. We must get clear an immediate feedback and number five and this is the hardest of all. We must feel a balance between challenge and skill. If the activity feels too hard we will end up feeling anxious and if the activity feels too easy we will up feeling relaxed or in the worst case board entirely agree especially on the last one. But when you think about nine today how do you think you've built flow into the product intentionally? This was specifically very well in order to understand this. I think it's helpful to break the conditions down won't buy one and then I'll talk to one or two things inside superhuman that really push that condition so the first condition was knowing what to do next and you can make products decisions that make this dramatically easier for your users in g mail when archiving email. What do I see well? I'm back on the INBOX and now I. The USA has to decide what to do next and I have to make this decision. Every single time and for a high volume emailer that could be hundreds or potentially even thousands of times per day. This destroys flow in superhuman when I archive an email. I automatically advanced to the next email. I don't have to take any decisions at all. That creates flow so that was knowing what to do next condition. Number Two is knowing how to do it early on. We saw that. Hughes's would forget. Our keyboard shortcuts. They knew what they wanted to do. They didn't Snow House and do it. So we built superhuman command. Just hit command K. And type in what you want to do. It will do it for you and teach you the shortcut for next time. I'm Elliot. You'd spoke to the superhuman Goto market becoming this common almost widespread thing. Superhuman Command is doing the same. In just the Y combinator batch. I saw five different companies that had incorporated this into that products and we have companies like linea that have just recently raised from sequoia that have done the same. And I think it's going to be a sea change. We're going to have this whole generation of products that hyperion invests in not only teaching us what to do next but also how to do it and number three. I mentioned freedom from distractions in superhuman. You can't see the inbox at the same time as a conversation and that is a very deliberate decision is very contrary to g mail. Webuye defaults you're multitasking and superhuman you. Very deliberately CONSI. What is next or any new email and anyone can design their interface. Like this to reduce distraction and to create flow. The fourth condition is clear and immediate feedback. And when you all kind of conversation like I said we immediately show you the next one and we have invested hugely in doing this as immediately as possible. Initially we set out to show the next conversation in one hundred milliseconds or less because not some roughly the threshold at which point user interfaces feel instant what we now have a new render. That is three times as fast and can do this in thirty two milliseconds or less and the last one and this is the one that I said was hottest is matching high perceived challenge with high perceived skill as I said if the challenges too easy users will be bored if challenges too hard. Your users will be anxious. How do you think about that when it could be subjective? So someone's email could be quite easy to get to inbox and then also all mind on other people's maybe challenging to impose their county about racing challenge when in some big years dependent on the user. We'll superhuman massively increases the skill level for almost anybody whether you are a high volume email us or not the things that you learn in the on boarding coal keyboard shortcuts and the way the product is designed pool contributes to massively increasing your skill level. But I think the question you're asking is what if you email wasn't that challenging. Let's say it was a low volume email accounts or she will already hyper skilled in the first place. Maybe you a productivity enthusiast and you're extremely proficient with keyboard shortcuts. Will if we don't do anything else then you still don't end up in flow and so this is why and this is going to sound crazy. We increase the challenge level. We provided challenging goal hits inbox zero but do so without ever touching the mess this then re balances challenged with skill and across our entire user base results in flow. I absolutely love that in terms of the ultimate challenge. That's great I do want to bring them all together. They Rahul because we think about the firefighters that you've done sent to me before the subsequently kind of seven principles of game design and this is incredibly hard for me to ask. It reminds me of a school tests. But before quake flat one of the seven principles of game design number one create concrete achievable and rewarding goals. Number two design for nuanced emotion number three creates rapid and robust controls number four. Make Fun toys and combine them into games number five. Make the next action obvious. Give clear an immediate feedback with no distraction and number seven and this is the hardest one of them all balance high perceived skill with high perceived challenge. And this may counter intuitively mean making your products harder to use those seven which she thinks that most people miss on the stand the most. Oh it's absolutely the last one you see. We have a whole generation of product managers and product designers who are brought up on this notion of make the product easy to learn. Make the product easy to use. And what I'm saying is if you actually study some of the theories behind game design and you go into flow which takes you back into intrinsic motivation and why we choose to do things and what makes activities inherently interesting and satisfying. It's actually those activities which have high perceived challenge as well as high perceived skill. And I think we've gone too far when it comes to designing our business software. We have in a sense made them too easy to use that more in terms of that generation of product managers since focused my neatly on reducing clicks to the minimum. That can be possible. Say totally nine that I do that. One of my favorite element day. Which is the quickfire Asi Night? Science Short Statement Man. Who and then you give me your immediate Dive it is. I promise I would read more this evening. Quarantine on not solving radio tell. What's your favorite book? And why will of course would be remiss if I did not mention the of game design by Jesse Schell of all of the books ever written on game design? I think if you were to read only one this would be the one and it covers much of what we're talking about here as well as a whole lot more so for any of our listeners. Founders prog manages designers people who want to make business software that feels and plays like a game had wholeheartedly recommend the off game design. Can I ask you also invested house? Is Tim Treat? You invested as Angel. See we're told to dig deep on founders. Think about game design stay when meeting them assessing that companies. I actually don't ask specific questions oriented around game design or at least. It's not obvious that I'm doing so what it taught. An eye on looking for is actually as you know quite a number of things. One of those things is is that someone on the team. Ideally the CEO who is an incredible product designer and for me the definition of incredible products designer in it ramps up. A lot of the perhaps counterintuitive things that we've discussed they'll have an intuitive understanding of how to create flow. They'll have a sense feel for what emotions that product creates. They'll enjoy the craftsmanship of sort of intensely laser in over the little details of the application or the experience that making. They may not necessarily know that they're doing game design. But they'll be doing the actions that contributes towards making a well designed game. I just so happen to know that what we're actually practicing here is game design and it's a very neat way to package that up and to share this with other people so much so in fact that when you folks joined superhuman. I actually buy them a copy of the game design and then we go through this presentation. We go through all of the things that I've learned over the years on how to make business software that like a game. I love that in terms of the on boarding and I did not see Nathan in terms of kind of these little intricacies that. What do you need now that you wish you'd known at the beginning of you'll find me? Cuban food products market fits the. Ceo's job is to find products market fits and we talked a tremendous amount about that in our last episode after products market fits the CEO's job changes it becomes to continually put themselves out of their job by hiring the best people in the world for every part of the company. That absolutely is a very hard thing. Realization come to is the ideal lost my favorite movie. I think is yours or can we take away. And this sounds bizarre. From Titanic and apply to game design. Who will listen is actually an example that comes from the onset. Game Design by Jesse Vet are two kinds of resonance resonant fantasy and Resonant Truth and experience has resonant fantasy when it resonates with our dreams and desires for superhuman. It could be the fantasy of having superpowers and who doesn't want that. It sounds both liberating and exhilarating. But there is something even more powerful than fantasy and that is truth and Jesse gives the example of the Titanic. Why is this movie? So compelling it's not the effects or the execution or the performances. Great though these will are it's just because the movie has a resonant truth that is constantly reinforced and that is a love is more important than life as stronger than death. Now most of us. Don't go around saying this all of the time. That would be strange if we did. But the reason this movie is so compelling is because most of US actually believe this. It's the kind of belief that we keep buried deep down inside and so I was inspired to ask the question. What is the resonant truth behind superhuman? What is something? We deeply believe but rarely express and I think for products like ours. It would probably involve efforts and attainment so our first attempt was something like this. I am what I do. And it's guessing there but it sounds like our work defines us which it doesn't really and so our next attempt was something like this. I deserve to succeed. It has some of the right vibes like striving for success. But some of the rumblings like success should come to a soul. I don't think any of US deeply believe that. And so maybe it's about deserving a chance to be successful and then we stumbled upon this. If work hard enough I can achieve anything and there. We have it. This would never come out in a user study but his a powerful truth that all of our uses deeply believe. It's the kind of statements that under the right conditions can send a chill down your spine and if you're looking to create a piece of art whether it's a game or a movie or anything else truly moves people. The advice is to find your resonance truth. There's an anything that relates. Titanic has a massive thumbs up for me right who also have see love that in terms of the rest of truth. Tell me even in the vinyl for number. Vs and really at the epicenter overseas stay with CPI or would you like to change about Silicon Valley stay. I think a tremendous amount is about to change and it's not clear how far the ramifications will go for our listeners. We're recording this at just over a month into shelter in place and unfortunately a recession now seems very likely and just in the technology ecosystem alone. I've seen early. Stage valuations dropped by about twenty to thirty percents. And I've even seen some term sheets being pulled from deals behavior that was honestly unthinkable as recently as just a few months ago and so as we go through this. I think it's really important for us to remember Admiral Times that we are going through it together and that we should help those in need so for example at superhuman one of the small things we've been doing is just providing superhuman for free to those whose jobs have been affected by covert or who are helping to fight on the front lines. Yeah now I couldn't agree more and absolutely for those that referencing the day. It is eight. Pull the tents that we tell me to invest. A value added is something that is commonly discussed on. Let me know how I can be helpful on twitter. What is Bush Defeats the whole of the capital providing? I think it's a Tufa combination of two things number one being highly available for those hopefully Remi- when you just need a quick piece of advice or a second opinion on something and then number two having that advice be highly nuanced and well backed by experience and then particularly outcome that I'm always looking for is to see around corners and help prevent mistakes before they happen. Another thing about products market fits is once he hits you once who avoid as many first time stakes as possible. Because you're now in a race you're not in a race to hold that tiger by the tail as it's shooting off and one of the best ways to do. That is to avoid as many mistakes as possible. I would never think about anything one of your investors but had Simmons my absolute favorite so I totally agree with you in terms of quality. So that's great to hear tell we Rahul. Nice five years for you and for Cuban paint vision for just how big this can be in five years time will be a billion dollar company and I think we'll have multiple product lines. My challenge is to become the kind of co who can scale to lead an organization through the many transformations that occur on that kind of journey. And I think the next major challenge for me as it will be for many CEOS will unfortunately be an upcoming recession. That now seems inevitable. We are headed into a recession. I think this is going to require a different kind of company building to before cannot do you think you're transitioning into a wartime see. That's a really tough question to end on. But I was in Spanish horses piece. Todd wartime Andreessen behind you. How do you think about peace invest? All Time I think directionally agree with the piece. I see myself as the kind of person who acts in the way that the wartime CEO is described in that post. But I definitely perform best in wartime. I definitely perform better when there's a crisis when we need to rally quickly when we need to urgently move and when our existence is something that we actually have to talk about and it's something that every single company in the valley right now is talking about again maybe for those who are listening from outside of the valuable that looking inwards just in the last week or two. I've seen following. I've seen layoffs like I mentioned. I've seen timesheets being pulled folks on twitter. Have been saying that the new three times valuation is the flat round. I don't think it's quite as bad as that. But we're just seeing this dramatic change to how technology feels in Silicon Valley. Now absolutely we all and Ronald as I just love having you on the show. I always enjoy our discussions. Thank you so much for joining me. Stay and I called the nets five years advocacy. Pebane will thank you for having me back. He really is just such a special founder thinker. And if you'd like to see more from Rahul you can find him on twitter and who were likewise. It'd be great welcoming behind the scenes hit. You can do so on instagram. At Age. Stubbings nine thousand nine hundred. Six with ABC's I'd love to see bad but before we leave each day. I'm sure you've heard about it. But my word this product. I Love Carter Carter. Simplifies HOW STARTUPS INVESTORS MANAGE EQUITY TRACK. Camp tables engage valuations dot com forward slash two zero to get ten percent off more than eight hundred thousand employees and shareholders. Us Carter to manage hundreds of billions of dollars in Equity Encarta now office fund administration. So you can see real time. Data in the cars and platform and work with causes team of experienced fund accountants simply Jakarta Dot Com forward slash and off and speed accuracy. For Amazing Team members. You have to check out. Switch a great start up. Initiative to semi laid off talent amid the current Ivars crisis directive vatted top startups still hungry to hire switches free for all parties. It's just hit a help. It's a free platform by the team behind wanted. Big Idea was to create a shortcut between companies firing and the startups still really hungry to hire so companies can upload late office for other startups to hire them on the spot and sees play a crucial role by letting that video companies nerve switch hens with Adrian. The multiple cost switch has now every ten thousand talent. It's supported by over one hundred and three hundred solid ups. You really must check it out. Switch dot help and once you get incredible talents. We wanted to be properly equipped. And that's why is coming. Bryce is the company which built corporate card for startups. And who's the fosters fastest company to reach Unicorn stages in history bryce founders Henry? Ken Battery built a payments business in Brazil but kept getting rejected for corporate card in the states so they built brax with no personal liability up to twenty times. I accord limits. And here's yours. I seventy six points on uber and lift for Axel Brass Travel and two excellent Saas software. If you're a startup based in the US see if you qualify for this call today at breaks dot Com and get called fees way for life by entering the Code Harry during sign up as always I appreciate your support and I called weights bringing you another fantastic set of episodes next week.

USA founder Carter Carter Henry Partial Bennett Rahul Bryce CEO twitter Jakarta Dot Com Harry stubbings Ken Battery Lincoln Silicon Valley Brazil Hughes co Rahul Vohra Jack Morris
Ep. 31 - Just Citizens

The Relentless Picnic

2:01:53 hr | 2 years ago

Ep. 31 - Just Citizens

"Wafa place is the chicken sandwich switch on the Dick. That's all one. Could I have a fried chicken sandwich on a welcome here. I think you really good. I've ever had panicked but then got a floppiness about it. Takes and I looked at the compound the orange chicken I was like I'm going on. We're waiting for a waffle incredibly dangerous. Joyce Sandwich Sandwich Waffled Sandwich the future that bridge suckers. You made an interesting choice. This is so funny to me. It's just a chicken sandwich with regret is a good way tastes. I think the people just doubled down on waffles when you order a daylight. They're like Yup do another thing iron and now the chicken sandwich that on waffles. Live on me Goddamn flies. They're all appear to waltzes Martha no surprise from Man. They sound like a waffle with Shuto Breezy and chip think. We're or exclude. Were just excited enough about down. Think wicked so easily be called whipping waffles. So in other words that it's a ws the key thing walkman waffling walkers the wappler apple man there and my over he l. and then he got me and my over here mile here the the war there I could go either way on this on the on the mall bap it shows it into place. The prices are blinking different presents. Komo says he will take Matthew Lesko behind the counter yet to give two orders. We don't know what you'll get because we weren't going to give you this but we changed online thank little weird. Were roughly one and welcome to okay. Unrelated words okay. I think they're related. Needed I also do I tell you how small Chris Batter Cake Bake no awful iron and eating hot with butter or syrup. Tell that to the wicked century Dutch. Shell compared compared to wait for an Ghafer with the PUCK is a copper about Darfur cream for flute with heated irons got macguffin waffle one British to speak or write at length innovating and trivial manner North American to fail to make up one's mind origin late seventeenth century originally in the sense of Yak or Yelp what went any frequented of dialect. Loft yelled of imitative origin. Frequent died of watt grid. Is that an explanation for why we got word dialect. You haven't been too late unpleasant. Talk with you. Screams seems like a good by stress. gummy supplements that one was a novel. Simply gylfi pills nothing whatsoever useful one star you do not have stress you having imaginary disease and your symptoms are cold psychosomatic. This stuff is junk. Why do people buy this stuff? How stupid are you? You could have a prescription written for you. You from the doctor you could turn to excise getting out and walking because a lot of people stress never gets relieved. There's no output and that's why it feels sometimes too dangerous points for for your health exercise. Take a walk by the lake if you have one get out of the buildings and the same old visions every day of cement walls and creepy pictures or your place of constant work get outdoors doors. You can say a word such as chicken and you continue to say this word up to five or six times just to refocus your mind. Do something to keep your mind busy. See when you get an anxiety attack sing song that makes sure you stay all the same word setup domino's if you're at home and when you have an anxiety attack take each one down knocked knocked down. Take each one down without knocking the ball down. Concentrate on something else immediately. As soon as I feel the anxiety attacks start to concentrate. Something else put headphones with loud music. Something and you'll see it works. You're not going to die from anxiety attack. No one ever has a devil put his hand on your shoulder. He likes the reaction when he gets. Good luck I can't tell you these popular and each of you don't line talk about this specific proposal. It will demand that we make sacrifices and changes in a four pack of silicone T- infuses inaccurate colours. The pink is actually read. I wish it was advertised as the correct correct color as I wanted to keep the pink for myself into had a chance to use it yet. Dot Dot dot and of review. Your only friend is Arctic thermal pad. It's not too cool. It's Arctic but it's the heat heat up maybe easy to use. Probably because it's just a pad heats heats easy to use. I use mine with a copper heat. Sink to stabilize a dash cams operation when exposed to the scorching California's California son to some degree. The sacrifices will be painful. Any meeting review is enough said Exclamation Point A. B. C. D. The entire fucking alphabet and the explanation wouldn't let me post with just enough said. Oh here we go. Five SARS two thumbs up a review of the collectors encyclopedia of pattern. Glass Glass this is the best book I've found yet. And I have many books on pattern glass. If you're going to buy just one book on pattern glass. This is the one great detail very large variety of examples. All right early American pattern. Glasses the next book one-star titled The Review. What smells this book all caps? This book is almost all photos of coblets very few photos of anything else. The photos are poor in many examples. The prices seem very unreal. Ruth the Web Elise Handbook of early. American press class patterns is much more informative and has better photos was first first published in the thirties. I highly recommend you by Mali's book. You won't be disappointed with it as I was with this one for once you became escape the Goddamn flood of goblets that are ruining modern pattern class books and so John Dewey by the way is not melvil. Dewey who invented the Do we beautiful succulent dewey decimal system using libraries. And he's not Thomas. Dewey do defeats Truman. Right he's the governor of New York. Yeah he did in the Dewey. Yeah he was born in Burlington. Vermont walks boiling ten Burlington out. Could've guessed that about doing somehow. It's something we're dealing with. An American philosophers strange living in America being interested didn't philosophy It seems like John Dewey who lived from eighteen fifty nine to nineteen fifty two has a mysterious presence in and not only American philosophy but American politics rotund just like a few things about his early life you graduated uvm. He spent a few years as a high school teacher in Pennsylvania then he was an elementary elementary school teacher in back in Vermont. Did some interesting work creating a kind of schools that it seems like are still in existence had a hand in the new school but ultimately wound up at the Columbia University as all. Do we all seem to where he taught and wrote voluminous for his very very long life yet. Decades of productive article article after article after article. Just imagine like knowing the eighteen sixties in the nineteen fifties and the same life. You'd have what like no electricity living going back candles as you're growing up watching TV and the World War Two. That's a lot of his shit. Apparently is is like they call pragmatism Tisza right but dewey is far from saying anything goes their moral principles that you can derive from democracy yet. Democracy seems to be a the a key concern big time. There seems to be a a faith a conviction that democracy offers. Here's the best of opportunity for the pursuit of the good knowledge. And Democracy are how we achieve Steve if we can like the best possible sort of lies actions enrichment enjoyment prosperity. This is one explanation for irrelevance days that the to the twentieth century has been one long march into realizing that. There's a a darker side to the idealism that democracy is the ideal system to where we are now where it's not even clear Whether the world's going to proceed increasingly democratic direction I think there's a complacency about the fact that the world was heading in a the democratic direction for the second half of the twentieth century. I think people really felt like democracies we're GonNa just keep flourishing and we sort of forgot about some of these arguments when I read this littman. Do we debate where. They're both confronting the same sort of democratic problems. The diagnosis is right in a lot weighs about like the difficulties being faced and I think to actually as sophisticated ways of addressing that problem that don't rely on experts and journalists and and in this way that I suspect like I don't know a lot of the powers that be would that say like as long as we have the New York Times and we have social science will be safe and he. I think really doubts that. Do we do in in the book that do rights ultimately to respond to the public and its problems He outlines three lines of argument for the primacy of Democracy won democracy at the very least at a minimum has to protect the interests of the people you have to protect the voters actual interest from right to and this is where it gets more specific for Dui democracy eased like experimental all social inquiry as to go beyond just like safeguarding interests and come to describe a mode of activity yet. Where you were conversing with people and you were trying out different opinions and you are examining what those interests are and to culminate this? Democracy is the expression of individuality. And that's because really to be an individual fundamentally for doing is to be in society as yeah it's social it's social men as Aristotle said is a social animal and doing doubles down and says look to be an an individual used to be in society. The idea that you could exist. Apart from society as an abstraction that has no basis in experience this is so much more insightful recital that I think it seems at first glance especially when you really think about the dangers to democracy and how you'd ever address them an understanding of democracy strengths this is surprisingly elusive. I think do powerful smart people all over the place like that idea that we're all in this alienated atomised society. We're ruled ruled by technocrats and human behavior is rationalized and understood by advertising agencies and PR firms and corporations and that's why we're not free Like that turns is out in his mind to be extremely simplistic view. The Human Existence in society and that a much more complicated and in some ways organic relationship exists between he and individuals that cannot be rationalized cannot be imported into the machinery of selling things to people. The actual actual operation of a lot of entities institutions in the world do treat you as individual atoms. And do think they are accessing reality in the little charts they make for how all all the average will atoms move and what stimuli and what responses they all have in a behaviorist way and do. He's just like that you could do that. It's just not right. The whole the whole story is not there it actually is constituent of of individuality to be in society and the individuals like little path through the world will constantly be changing and being affected by society. And we don't have an ability to chart an individual apart from then traits even a phrase like self interest hides all kinds of contradictions that come. I'm from abstract again an individual from their actual existence the context these social existence that they They are based on like the supposed- supposed- debate between Lippmann and dewey twenties. Yep and they are talking about a risk of democracy they it's a critique the you could call the gap between citizens capability their sophistication understanding of the world. And how fucking huge complicated gated. The modern world is filled with problems. How can the average voter understand everything about America that you'd need to understand to make good decisions? What do you do to address that problem right? Littman says what we need to do is separate citizens who have no hope of understanding the whole world world from their tiny perspective and find skilled men of action managers and then experts can objectively pursue the knowledge allege needed to find the solutions at the men of action can carry out and only when things go really wrong. Does the public have to step up and sort of see. Oh Shit everything is all fucked up right. This is what you technocratic society. The people need to be appraised by like certain journalists or whatever of the overall situation but not really of every little detail because they can't understand it do we wonderfully says. It's like A. It's a epistemology mistake to imagine some kind of objective of knowing that that's an elite class can do he says. Actually what's interesting about knowledge is that it is also social and cumulative and that it is constantly being developed and he's not trying to deny that experts might have some role to play in the news gathering or public education project. Object that social democracy is going to constantly be for the people. It's just a question of what primacy do you give them. And how much control over like action to that because really we know Oh surprisingly complicated things by working together. Sometimes outsourcing pieces of knowledge sometimes training knowledge knowing who to go to talking things through and that the crucial skill Gill is in knowledge fact gathering but learning how to assess what your fellow citizens are informing. You about your family's tell you your neighbors you're constantly doing on the fly and you're revising your premises in order to come to new conclusions about what the best possible move is as I understand it. There's a criticism of Dewey's morals of experience that says like boy. This really just focuses on means and not ends but do your sponsor know ends are here. They're just CONSTITU tive in action and they're constantly connected connected to means that really the `isolation between means and ends is sort of a fiction because the world isn't static and if identity knowledge is sort of social on the move all the time then sometimes what you need to do is be a good neighbor to be. A citizen is to develop a democratic competence. Meaning you know who you are and what you we know and what you may not know you know had asked questions how to listen. You are not an expert your justice and don't wait for the experts it makes makes it seem so hopeless because you're not educated like Ezra Klein or you don't have necessarily the chops to understand one piece of writing it can be very discouraging urging and I think you could make the mistake of thinking. It's not even supposed to happen for me. I'll just wait to be told the truth. And this is what it feels does like to have been born and bred into a an economy of knowledge. That's very different from what we had in mind. The side that won was so oh holy opposed. What do we had in mind that it becomes very difficult to contemplate alternatives? Yeah it's not that they disagree with them. It's they pretended that what he was saying with an option so it's persuasive in other words like pretending that something isn't the case is actually not a great widow it's terrible for democracy but if you can consume all the oxygen uh-huh whatever immediate environment. You happen to be. It's the definition of persuades you. He doesn't care about winning so much as Engaging he believes we can keep adding knowledge by talking to one another another. Frank luntz thinks if you phrase it right and get on TV and like your arbitrary. You get to win as if winning is possible. In democracy. Winning is impossible possible this is about provisional experimental like attempts at solving problems and gaining knowledge and improving things by working together and passing on values in tools to do their surprise surprise. We don't have a functioning. Democracy in this country built into view is go out and find something more imaginative genitive. That is more gratifying to you and your interests individual in a society like nothing is stopping you from. I'm not so sure. It's just very very very unlikely. Because if your campaign to equalize some national inequality gains traction and becomes like a big news story instantly gigantic forces of corporate money. We will mobilize against it but your job isn't to fix the whole country you really need at at the local level around you in your community you need to try to make that community Like align with your communities values and view and if you don't believe these giant corporations paying everyone off you can find a way to connect the people that are suspicious of that kind of money then you just make Rumford Maine a place where they don't air ads like that and yes. It may never ver- takeoff and it may take forty years to even just get Rumford Bain but your neighbors here your arguments over the years your kids see what you're trying to do and and you don't get into that like hopelessness right to me. It's not hopelessness is just a clear-sighted appraisal of the forces arrayed against you and so when you have that like big a big picture view of things and how difficult it would be the targets for revision and change become more obvious and then it's not Rumford Maine you start at the top and you unpack the fucking thing and the alert was packed. I think part of the problem is that we're talking about this. As as a theory of democracy and you're talking about the particular exigencies of this moment in American democracy which like as every moment will present certain practical challenges but the basic blueprint. I think is do. His point has to be from the people. Interacting with each other and and being educated in educating one another they can change institutions and institutions can change people and that can sort of constantly back and fourth go on so that if changes ever going to happen that will be how it happens and this is why I think you end up if you believe deeply in democracy back at the question Estrin of education because it's true we have flawed neighbors. It's actually classic grid problem of the grid of one and the Grit of three hundred million. How can you do anything so this question? One of education local citizen interactions just trying to find a grid of two than three. I really think that's like the idea and sometimes times it'll just be a child. You're giving good tools to we're hitting up against especially as you bring up the money in politics nick like how does economic activity which might be expressly anti-democratic. How does that work as a straight up oppositional force in this thing which I think is is the larger point? Yeah and in his Understanding of democracy was of a former variety a mayor where this guy's born eighteen fifty nine in fairness one of the things that he says. Dewey is that the institutions of political democracy in the United States are designed to meet the needs of the public of a decentralized agrarian simple market society and they are completely inadequate for the organization of this new public. We start saying like basically you can never convince your neighbor because he only wants to make money or he's completely influenced by non critical critical consumption of like propaganda. It's economically motivated is if this is true of people they aren't going to have a democracy and so they aren't going to have have like the good there in fitness still dribbles after all these years. Why Oh why? After all these years have they not designed to spout that does not drip out the bottom. When pouring slowly I could just as easily use a pan Dan? This thing on Amazon their reviews of products. And typically you encounter these reviews because you're investigating products six and we wrote that around. In other words we were looking for reviewers of note not products. Because when you are a reviewer of products on Amazon all all of your reviews are listed under a profile where we can really get a sense of your life yet. What still I feel? Is you think of a review has been entirely about the product. Yeah but little little. You imagine it's tied to you. The we use the products only as a kind of bait to catch. Check a human specimen and. We're not just mocking them. These some of these people I would argue are champions that show us the human soul in ways. You can't even dream all right. Let's cut to the truth so with this retired Georgia dental assistant yet. Now I think it is funny to think about what. How did we search the people out for some reason? I I said to myself camping stove review. I felt I feel like there's a whole lifestyle in the camping stove and this is a particularly cheap kind of camping stove. Coughlin's flins folding stove. We live in a senior citizen complex and was out of power for over sixteen hours. Our apartment is all electric. We were able to stay in our apartment and not go out into the very bad snowy weather. We live in Georgia and got nine and a half inches of snow. I in a long time glad I have these provisions and I recommended for anyone whether they live in a senior complex complex or an irregular apart. Meant if its all electric it comes in handy. When one loses power might mention very easy to put together full very nice and very very late so in my to go bag went so into the to go bag went what I like is? How'd you use it Ma'am we we at setting? We got all this. We got all circumstance and later we come across the supplies for the stove. And she's like within apartment sixteen hours so he's like read other review and the Sun emerges as a character quickly got a granddaughter too. She reviews igloos. Men's the century mittens. It's my son lives in Michigan. And he wear these out in service when he is reading from the Bible his hand still stay warm yeah. He bought the heat of the Bible and the then he covers his fingers as he goes on to the next house. Bible sales fool of life five very nice story about teacher teaching teacher in how to get through to the kids of today. Wow Man so earlier. Those oral B. Replacement for her electric rush. There were five stars. I'm only do an oral B. earlier in time we see oral B. Braun compatible replacement mm-hmm and we have a one star review. I return these because they didn't fit right tried. One couldn't get it off my toothbrush. It took my husband and myself with a pair of pliers. They get it off shea outside with much effort enforce we got it off from now on I will only buy oral B. Brand Amazon in his on made it very easy. Return it and get my money back. I Love Amazon. Keep up the good work. The views from Oh eight and it's like I'll garden garden cart lawn buddy the ames true temper lawn buddy when I am working in my garden my buddy goes everywhere with me. I love it I can keep all my garden tools with me at all time. Rake and hose hooks right on the side. When weeding my back no longer hurts I sit on it? It is so easy to move while sitting on it. There's plenty of room for carrying harrying your plants inside my only regret is I wish I had it years ago. She really loves things hard. Like for instance Minnie mouse. Watch five stars this gift for my youngest granddaughter who love Minnie Mouse. This was a gift for my granddaughter. Her favorite has Minnie mouse and she loves it and plays often. She's only four years his old. I'm so glad it makes her happy. This is not about the product these about the grandmother. You know the Segler Electric Knife sharpener love. It had all my knives are finally sharp recently. Bought segler knife sharpener over here. Here's ago. I bought different knife sharpener. I love the color of them but they all seem so dull. UH-HUH I like her. She's a closet organizer that she's like the closets finally say this is. She's a problem solved pencil holder with five stars. That's for the Apple Apple Pencil. I am very glad I got this pencil. Holder eat holds my pencil. Nice snuggie and it's very easy to remove the pencil when he needed. I was afraid afraid that I would eventually lose my pencil. The case as you can see from the picture only I have is that I was. You came in Darker Brown so so that it would blend in better match my case but contrast is not bad these cases. We're losing it well made. I recommend it twenty. Seven friends sounds find it helpful. I'm calling them friend now. Is there any lovingly grandmother who is sneaking details about her family and to all of these reviews including photos and seems to generally exude a kind of positivity about most products at the time traveler's wife. She's not trying to tack these Daedra K. TO HEART What attracted me to Daedra at first? I mean there's a lot here for Daedra a bookstand The Bamboo Book Stan. I purchased this as a gift for a lady who had a stroke and was able to read but not able to hold book with. What's what's the bookstand is? Just what you need is a lovely bamboo with the cut out portion really giving it flare. Since I was sending this to a nursing home facility. I was is concerned about it being stolen or loss but he extremely affordable price made the sale for me so in other words. You're saying even uh even when it gets stolen or lost did you're but it didn't cost me an arm and a leg craft olding loose cheese spread five ounce jar. You're five stars nuclear winter cheese food. ellipses I have always loved the stuff even though it's pretty gourmet if you by cheese by the pound is high brow had a pen pal years ago from the Netherlands okay and asked about cheese. That's particularly American. I chose chose to send this because one it sealed and pretty much indestructible You can't send unseal. Jeez to it was right after nine eleven. No now. What's the logic so packages we're taking forever to get back and forth to foreign land? God and three. I figured if the plane went down no it would still be. Yeah it would still be able after sitting at the bottom of the ocean. That's it's not just say this is a real concern she saved so fucking indestructible as Jimmy. She's thinking about nine eleven and just like the nursing home if the if the vagrant seniors at the nursing home tear apart. Who stand or of the plane goes down so she likes value and she's a little suspicious? This is for Mossy the OAK camouflage shower curtain l five stars. I actually bought Lover View that starts like that. I actually bought these to become a curtains for my car. Port Art that I have over a hot tub over a hot. A can you imagine the geometry now over over a hot tub beginning leap out in the weather now for a couple months and have held up to the very windy days we've had and so far. No Sun fading since they are a cotton. It would be easy to make these irregular curtains or pillowcases or anything if you needed the Komo look but don't WanNa pay the price for Moscow. I'm Hammo matere the DRE I need the Cammo look but I don't WanNa pay the big bucks. I got just the thing. It's cotton as you need. I had him on my car port. You they were well l.. Hidden in the brush better homes and Gardens Providence Shays Lounge. This is a great one a handsome piece of outdoor furniture. Even if I'm using IT INDOORS FOR STARS I purchased this chair via Walmart Dot Com. I was able to unpack the box. Assemble and sit on it within forty five minutes. What I'm a single five foot? Two two hundred and thirty pound woman so I had no assistance words so uh-huh Oh God the forty five minutes early. How long time? Indeed she knows that is why she said what you did the instructions if I ever care to read the price started project which I never do and then I have to disassemble it to put it together correctly. We're fairly easy to understand. will all this future worry Can we talk about actually. I'm not sure what this item is the magnify your head. Strap up lobby tool. So we're GONNA get some back story here. It's by the way it's useful enough for the price three stars I work in a wire-cutting in terminating facility terminals that I have to inspect daily are so small that they cannot be clearly seen with the naked eye even if you have twenty twenty vision so I bought this hoping to be able to at least city what was supposed to be inspecting. The lights don't work but I don't really I need to lightstone. That's not an issue for me overall. I use it daily because I have to but I get headaches from the extreme magnification. Signification and making my farsighted is try to see close up. That's not a fault of the manufacturer. That's my crappy eyesight not keen on the a strap. I'd have preferred electric strap instead. What an electric strap elastic? So what is it if it's not an elastic elastic strap. I don't know okay. This is a review for ruffles. All dressed potato chips so the five stars would title. Can we now adopt these chips throughout throughout the Americas big nor really only like plane or sour cream and onion chips by AH normally only like player sour cream and onion chips when buying large family bags what a what a credible qualifications all the win by large family bags into play in and sour cream. Personal righty girl. I bought a small snack size bag of these last week at our local. Casey's lured by the limited time only sticker. She she's trying to be very self-aware audit damn bargains. So Miam- now eating out of the large bath at the local local Walmart to stores you hitting the woman. I really hope that ruffles makes these available in the states permanently recalling that it's limited time Omega uh-huh or at least seasonally so that we skin stuck up you ever since nine eleven I fear great eight ruffles won't make it across the pond for us Yang as far though she has no evidence that these are only in Europe or anything just for a limited time. What the date on that? There are many many there are so many candies slash snacks that are done better somewhere else. I love the bit of Mesquite Barbecue of salt and vinegar. Bit of Sweet Chili Parentheses. At least that's what I'm guessing because of the picture on the US bag versus true. It is to ruffle potato chips with a little vinegar. Defensor red red bill with her mouth. She loves the because you look at the graphic in what if I I'm worried that these chips had adverse effects. Let's go to the what bomb review recent days. Okay five Goddamn Stars Create Texture and subtle flavors for guess. What a great? The price size vanilla I have been trouble with angular CL- titus sore cracked lip corners earners and in many sides recommend easing chapstick. That does not have petroleum jelly as this can be an irritant. I live in a small rural area so finding organic exciting this ball and rural. You'd better believe it's all things like Lib Dem's isn't the easiest thing in the world what I order you get a live bomb in the rurals. UH-HUH I ordered the six pag multi-flavoured or share with my boyfriend who is in all organic gluten free nut single anymore five two. Yeah yeah welcome. And when I got them in he really liked them glide in yet shipped in for for the Little Yang store I I chose the love. Tell the full story with the bomb. I chose the he shouldn't vanilla and the coconut flavors to try and he took the eucalyptus men who who would even be aware of this. He had been using birds. Bees but the strength of the peppermint and the stiffer texture of the bomb seemed to irritate his lips. But he like this stuff. I try to dollars for a tube agree. Lip Balm is a great deal. No matter how you work it. I'll probably end up buying lying these for Christmas and birthday favors in the future birthday. Ep Work fucking gift idea. I want to please hi. I just finished my Christmas shopping in my birthday favors holy very paranoid woman. Yeah do you see CONVATEC. ALAVESA cleansing foam. Oh you see the bags I see. You're talking the lunchbox bound or no no planet not usable grocery bags because this boyfriend probably influences their multiple. Different kinds of planter fasciitis short sport compression impression socks. I guess we're thinking to myself. Is this little woman doing wire-cutting inspections right like she's got her lips or cracking and to know that eating the ten and issues the feet hurt do she. Has she one of the first things you reviews as a crock. A advanced crock looking shoe and again she ends the review by saying they're very comfortable and I liked the fact that the holes on the sides would allow for water to drain. If I were to wear these in a lake slash pool situation situation hypothetical this future. None of her products are really like fun. They're almost all medicinal. And then there's some star Trek Action Star Trek novellas. Have you heard Harry. This start. CRIM- criminals cough medicine for that. That orders that an earth product tried and true for the whole family and e you been using this for decades. It's non alcoholic so I can take it without upsetting my stomach. It has a pleasing flavor to be sort of a mean Cola Syrup taste definitely tastes better than Robitussin Ernie. The alcohol based Cough syrups out. There you know. Get drowsy with its. You don't have to worry about quote weird side effects. Side Effects Side Affects A. Aw and and I remember Jimmy Carter mainly through a Simpson's episode where the town of Springfield erects a statue of Jimmy Carter grinning looking really idiotic with a plaque underneath the statue on the Clinton says Malays forever like In my family who like had like a couple of personal connections to Carter. He was always spoken highly as person of like huge in remarkable integrity. They're all these contradictions are like he's the president like like that wasn't alive for but he's a he's alive he's around and Huby talked about and there are these contradictions. It's like my mom. I feel like would talk about Carter Order. Like he was Cassandra or something like is he wasn't he wasn't wrong but it just didn't go well. Yeah well that's I think that's I share the exact same confusion. Was He like a good guy at the wrong time. I like have fundamental questions but what even went wrong and how. It's weird because who likes to talk about Carter. It feels to me like conservatives. Republicans love to talk cart. And they talk about him like a kind of caricature of a certain kind of little fucking Democrat. which is which is incredible? Incredible the more you learn even a tiny batum. This was the only really evangelical Christian ever to be elected to the president and nobody hates him more than far-right Republicans Gugans. Yeah that that this incident credible to even imagine that in the seventies there was a southern Democrat born again Christian president and he's reviled by the Christian right. Yeah they don't really say he's a bad guy they don't talk about it. I'm like Slick Willy. As like he's so corrupt was like gormless stupid like He. He was so inept and dumb as you learn oh like he has a degree in nuclear physics and yeah he uh-huh In nineteen fifty two. He organized the remediation of gigantic nuclear accident in Canada. Who is ten times worse than nuclear accident ever happen in the US? Yeah so he. He's all the things Republicans hate. He's sincerely Christian. He's honest he from rural Georgia. He's a farmer he's fiscally conservative that's right obsessed with eliminating the national debt. He's not interested in liberalism. He's not interested in big. Spending big deficit seem to have peace in the Middle East and he'll CV. Hates Kennedy really hated. Just just even looking at a list of the president's you can be like Oh like evil crook. I resigned It was our national nightmare. And the guy no one ever elected was there for a brief time seemingly seemingly as a seat warmer and then we had this shining virtuous peanut man to lead us out of the darkness. Why wasn't it that the picture of the kind emerges to me is that after Kennedy gets assassinated America starts to turn into a giant steaming pile of garbage president president year-by-year and A Guy from Georgia begins to start shoveling and we get to see a garbage mountain being shoveled out and get to experience all the smells and horror deep inside the garbage mountain and and then he gets pushed off the mountain. Ronald Reagan plants a flag on the top and says this is America right. And it's been like that ever fucking and it's so funny to get exactly the narrative I seem to inherited and it's like I want to ask these people like did you not see the garbage man. You mean there's your that dumb you thought. It was Reagan. The whole time to city on a hill. It's a shining enough for this blame. America for every so called pile of garbage is the greatest country that God loves extra special well right but because of the garbage man in apart right the era of bullshit of our television actor arriving in take Michael Douglas. You handle all street and enough of this cry crybaby fucking apocalypse now. Should and I think we have to acknowledge that part of the weird mysterious presence of the Carter Presidency has to do with the fact that this ninety some odd two year old man and his wife are still fucking ally airy much around giant sharp figures who appear and write books and stuff so it was like fifty years ago. I worked at a used bookstore. I used to hate seeing all these fucking Jimmy Carter bug that came. I'm like you wrote a novel historical fiction. Here's a book review. Yes yes he wrote so many books and people in DC or just like have these huge stacks. no-one has ever bought a Jimmy. Carter book ever. What do you think of when you think of from your working sense of American history like what is a signature event or achievement of the Carter years? Seventy six to seventy seven eighty one to me. It's the crisis of confidence speech debra else's the hostage crisis but to me. It's the crisis of confidence. I think. stagflation and fucking gas rationing yet. Gas rationing coiled at the BEGIN SADAT PEACE ACCORDS BETWEEN ISRAEL EGYPT OPEC standing up to the US. was there a signature social program that Jimmy Carter Presidency produced first-day pardons all the draft. is He established some departments. Yeah I mean energy education. Yeah I mean it wasn't an official program. But he put more women and people of Color on the bench than any other president right. He makes no Supreme Court appointees he's also weirdly really unfortunate. He doesn't get credit for his victories. The Iranian hostages were released minutes after Reagan was sworn in right like there does seem to be real animists from the Islamic state that rises in Iran against Jimmy. Carter and part of me doesn't fully understand where that Adam is comes from. They blame him for the oppression of the Shah of Iran of the past from nineteen fifty. Three on right. Because he's so buddy buddy with emily toast them whatever summer and the State Department says. Don't get the Shah this medical treatment you will in inflamed tensions and that's when they take the embassy for the second time is after her. They're outraged by that. Four hundred forty four days of hostage holding every night nightline says how many days it's been four days into that Ted Kennedy Announces Running Against Him deeply lucky to in the same way. That Reagan is super. Look when I think of him. I don't think of him doing anything I think of him. Like sort of sitting at the desk maybe giving the crisis of confidence beach. I think like like there's iconic footage of almost every previous president like standing up piddly. I don't think of him as a standard. I mean like I think this is a partly bad luck. That like there weren't a lot of Berlin walls coming down in seventy the eight and Carter was like like doing the Obama thing of staying up all night reading briefs from departments that he would never visit right trying to understand every aspect of the federal government through which he was responsible because he thought that shit was what being the president was supposed to be. So where did we. Where did it go wrong? Did he fail America or do you like American. Democracy sort of failed L. to live up to him. It does seem shit felt bad during the Carter presidency to be an American like we were worried about all kinds of things we were still shocked over Watergate and we had no faith in anything thing and she it was bad and gas was expensive and we were terrified of nineteen seventy-three happening again and prices were going up and crime. Ride was bad. Whatever happened to nineteen in seventy three? WHO's the first OPEC oil shortage that it felt bad definitely would have a negative effect on how you view Carter Carter as a citizen but how much of it actually was the result of Carter or even like how much did he not help or was it just gonNa feel bad no matter who was up there? Cheap oil bill in the sixties was the result of people like Johnson and everyone at the State Department willing to squeeze balls when they had to and to keep Saudi Arabia and Iran compliant. I mean there was a fucking revolution. Listen in Iran right to install the Shaath courtesy the CIA so oil prices could be stabilized right now like that. That's the kind of ball squeezing maintains domestic tranquillity for politicians wins at home. And there's a big argument. That Carter was the kind of politician who was in some sense. Very uncomfortable with this imperialist drive to control world events as a means means of controlling American domestic tranquility and he decided to start fucking with the system. He's like let's be smart adult like self-sacrificing people red could serve sacrifice. He thinks because he knows he's a real smart guy. That real smart guys are the answer to any particular domestic problem. As opposed to ball squeezing which doesn't require intelligence only courage right and the threat of military might same. Yeah yeah which Carter eventually goes with right the Carter doctrine being will perhaps it is a kind of threat of military might but I mean one. Reading of Carter's presidency is like the people perhaps at a record low of their willingness to invade a Foreign Land Dan the heels of Vietnam finally winding down after Twenty fucking years. He's not a liar he doesn't like to threaten if he's not really willing to do it. Right right yeah. There's a AH weird strain of like Accidental or reverse arrogance going on the whole Carter Administration where because he feels dead certain that he is in the moral alright almost everything he does and That's scary that you can act as though this is true right and that people just recognize their gather the fucking way that that Not only reads as what has the same practical effect as tyrannical arrogance. I think that's a good way to understand why liberals and conservatives alike like really began to loathe him and there's a one of his advisors is on the record as saying like there was no coherent political ideology that the White House had there was was just the belief that we do what was right. Yeah which sounds like so naive and really as you put it like ego maniacal so Jimmy Carter goes to submarine school and get stick with a nuclear engineering degree and goes to Schenectady New York with the Navy's assignment. He thinks he's going to be a navy guy. A technocrat in the navy then his father earl gets pancreatic cancer and Jimmy. Carter's call back to his deathbed in Georgia. Nine hundred ninety three and as Carter father is dying all these people come to pay respects earl. Who'd been a big landowner who just been the state legislature who wasn't GonNa live to serve the term and As Carter's there's father's dying with Jimmy at the bedside this parade of people come in and say no Mr Earl carried my mortgage when I couldn't pay the rent. Mistral gave me a lot of credit in this country store when I couldn't pay for anything and this experience totally revolutionized Carter's life. He resigns a navy. He makes his wife who had developed a kind of life in Schenectady moved back to plains Georgia to run the family fucking peanut farm Be specifically and only because Carter realizes that what. His father was to the community that the father lived in with what he wanted to. And and the central challenge of his life moving forward from nineteen fifty-three was to become a man that good. That's that's the central insight that he really thought and I still think he's a good man and the good men in positions of power automatically do good without needing political ideology without needing a coherent policy without I needed to do backslapping. The simple virtue of being good makes the world better as you live in Santa Logically so crucial that his dad though a political figure never actually got to hold the political office that he was like to do. I think you're exactly right. This is exactly how it seems to have influenced Carter but I think maybe a Seiko Saco sexual mistake. That he made was on not understanding that his dad though he had just won this election was doing kind of community. Based goodness that did not involve all political. Didn't scale up. Yeah and he quits his life in community to go to his father's went and there's something weird about what that means about your role and community and your social. Social Identity describes a conversation. He had with like a pastor or minister spiritual figure in his early adulthood where the minister says. Why don't you just a B? A minister like you're good at they targeted people. You enjoy your faith. Yeah like the the story was that the some minister at the kitchen table in the peanut farms has like how could you be. Involved with such worldly horseshoe right forever and Carter's like how would you like to have a prisoner count of twenty two thousand namely the population Georgia. I mean if you've as things of this as the pulpit fit that does save some of the phenomenon magin imagine the whirlwind. Nobody's heard of you right when you declare your candidacy. And then you're like I match up with these Evangelical Evangelical in Iowa. Oh bummer rush and you start running away with the fucking thing you would really feel chosen duty and you would not be seeing yourself this. This is the weirdest fucking moment in modern American history if you were the first successful Darkhorse candidate since Warren. G harding You would I feel like the fit. The last thing in the world you had to do on unassuming. The office of the presidency was to hugh to some ideology that you inherited from Ted Kennedy or or Beg Washington Ashington to how you would feel like you almost divine mandate to do things in a new and different and radically different way and to tell truth to the American people in a way that they had never been talked to before. Yeah which makes his inefficacious nece so funny and interesting. Yeah Yeah for either him or US or both of thing. Yeh Yeah Alive. Though allow was gratified by his name decor and running for president. They made several speeches. He was trying to impress upon people. Fact that the need to conserve and it just seemed to be going nowhere with the public and so he just said I'm not GonNa make the speech so he got on the conference call the senior staff and the way she put very pungent lay was just one bullshit. The American People Carter retreated to Camp David for the next ten days business. Labor leaders governors unders. Top psychologists and clergy were called to the mountaintop to participate in one of the most extraordinary episodes of presidential soul-searching American history. Basically this was a self psychoanalysis By Carter and the station people longer believe the future of America was going to be as good as it was. Now there were the history American polling had that ever existed. Most people tell you that they think Jimmy Carter's decent honest Means well hard working all of that but then many will say but he the top of the can't do the job good evening. It is rare indeed. An American president will acknowledge publicly beforehand that a particular speech or event is is a turning point for him it simply makes the stakes too high for comfort but that is exactly what President Carter has done and it's an indication of how deeply he believes. He's in trouble. Impotence came because I had emphasized the energy program so heckling battling throughout my first two years and the Congress had not take final action on it speech tonight from the Oval Office of the White House on energy not on leadership on on what he describes as the national melees could very well determine who governs this country for the next four years he was bringing the American people into do this spiritual process that he had been through and presenting them with an opportunity for redemption as well as framing himself take off Spoken to many occasions Asian about national concerns energy crisis reorganizing the government our nation's economy and issues of war and especially peace over those years the subjects of the speeches that talks and the press conferences have become increasingly narrow August moral isolated world of Washington. Thinks isn't actually you've heard what what the government thinks what the government should be doing less and less about our nation's hopes dreams and vision of the future so interesting when he's talking about to what the government thinks disparagingly right. You've heard a lot. About what the government that he he means like in the media and the national conversation Arrow press conferences. And things like that but now he's trying to say now it's about time the government heard what you think. He's trying to reset the picture for us. Not Not just another energy speech a different kind of speech our talk you right now about a fundamental threat to American democracy. I do not mean political uncivil liberties they WANNA do fingers crossed outlets strength of America the nation that has at peace tonight everywhere in the world. The threat is nearly invisible. It is a crisis of confidence. It is a crisis at strikes at the very hot and soul shaking his fist. We can see this crisis in the growing doubt about the meaning of our lives and in the loss of a unity of purpose for a nation. And we've always believed in something called progress. We've always had a faith that the days of our children would be better than our own. I'll people are losing that. Not only in government itself but in the ability as citizens the service and ultimate rulers and shapers off our democracy. We always believed that we were part of a great movement of humanity itself called democracy too many of us now send a worship self-indulgence and consumption human identity is no longer defined. By what one does one oems Eko bug by natural ultrasonic Petra pillars okay. I just love the package. It came with it super cute. It's a bug shape. I have been looking thing for something like that for a while. So finally bought one looking for bug shaped bug repellent that only leagues and consuming things does not satisfy and longing meaning poly. I uh-huh the the fuck. Is this page. Forty six in the morning up your wife cold. Who's this page of me? KIP Fuck about you or do we want to go into a big pop puck you a gunman dawn. I hear somebody coming. It's almost impossible to imagine someone saying things like he does like owning things and consuming things won't give their lives meaning. Yeah this diagnose knows is right on Ren and compare this to George W Bush telling people the thing we ought to be doing after nine eleven to fucking shopping. No he's talking about the dearth of meaning in the American citizen as the source of Malays and unhappiness in their actual lives and he's almost blaming the energy crisis on this he he does he is. He's blaming our desire for more oil on like our crisis of our spirit he also. Yeah he blames government. He says You know we keep thinking that the government will like deliver for us but legislation isn't going to get us out of this. Do you think this is like the sermon on the Mount. Or whatever for Jimmy Carter. I mean trying to articulate relate a set of principles four Americans to cling to or is he just trying to decry principles that they should not Clinton. He's trying to provide context for which to interpret what needs to happen. It's weird. It's almost like the only thing we have to fears for itself. He's like the only way to get our faith. Back is to like have faith in ourselves in one another and this yes echoed all throughout Jimmy. Carter's life the only way to have faith is have faith there's a powerlessness. I think he feels like the honesty is going to be empowering for me but I'm just sitting here being like like okay but the people not voting and like surely we can do something. Carter is speaking to the American people as though every last one of them is part of a serious seriously endeavour of Democratic Self Government. Let's the plane. The things that Yvonne's up saying Our Energy Security Corporation to lead this effort to replace two and a half million barrels by one thousand nine hundred. I'm going to ask Congress for a mandate to limit our nation's imports. I'm going to ask for for a lot of money. I don't know if you were an American. Might you have wanted that sooner as opposed to like. Let's all put our heads together and conserve. This is the reason that ultimately the the press and the political elite in the country turn against him and the speech like the immediate reaction to the species and is intensely favorable right right but he doesn't seem to have faith. He said he fires five people like three days there. I thought we had to have faith in each other right. It makes it seem less like diagnosis more. Like confession or something. Yeah I mean this is a line from later in the speech. The solution of our energy crisis can also help us to conquer the crisis of the spirit in our country it can rekindle our sense of unity. Our confidence in the future and give our nation and all of us individually a new sense of purpose what the solution is solving the energy crisis us. Then we're going to be right but if like Saudi Arabian starts producing more oil and the energy prices get solved or if Carter's different man and uses More ball squeezing soft power opens up new supplies OPEC or I don't know the ayatollahs defeated by Iraqi forces would the crisis. He says be solved. No that way in that way. It seems like it's A tactical deployment of a very fiery apt diagnosis. But not not for the right ends or something like that. Carter knows that increasing oil supplies not gonNA fix the crisis consumerism or the heartlessness. It's a former heart location of American democracy ossie But he has to say something but he also has people more traditional liberals for instance vice president saying like No. No you need to be steady. You need to get through. This is not a time to you. Know confess to our lack of confidence as a time to project strength we will protect our environment but when this nation uncritically needs a refinery or pipeline. We will build it. He doesn't believe in the idea of like I will nationalize oil companies. I will demand that OPEC OPEC changes policies are suffer. The concert. He just is not that kind of a leader. He values peace and our ability to endure but he has no problem saying saying. I want you to not take unnecessary trips. Like he's willing to get granular at the level of the private citizens behavior and their choices because by the way that's located the crisis in the spirit of the individual. But why not be like these oil profits need need to be taxed higher absolutely. I Dunno it just seems like yeah. Why is it all on us is what I keep asking myself? Because to him American capitalism awesome is only bad. Incidentally it's not bad essentially whereas the people are very much bad. Essentially we're all the centers the Royal I. It quote corporations can't have come to Jesus moment where people can don't tell that to justice Alito and hobby lobby but yeah on the one hand. It's like the most Christian honest honest adult speech. Like you're ever going to hear on the other hand feels so like weirdly about Carter more than about they've met home. I'd just be like what the fuck if the government is we the people. It's very weird to have the people's spokesperson say like we as the people aren't going to solve this we as individuals on our own are going to solve this. What are you doing? That's exactly the fact that the media and the liberal political elite talk when the poll numbers jumped though. What did we like? What do you think the American people liked? And we're responding to in the realness right urgent. There's an urgency Chrissy here. I think there is a sense of purpose. It's not boring to tune in to the president talking and to hear the president accused you personally of being a greedy pig and that's everything is terrible guys suppose. I wouldn't be boring exactly although I might tire of. It happened four or five times in the two years. I would totally agree. And I'd be like you a you know disguised this is such a great critique of all of us him and all of us I just who can solve it. I would be sitting there aching for Ted Kennedy. I think yeah any anybody to carry through the project of nineteen sixties which was the the culture narcissism is justified and that I really really used to feel okay and then things will be okay yeah. I don't think it's a choice between false empty reassurance and this kind of a it's uh still like endure. I believe in government. I think much more than this much. More than Jimmy Carter does. Yes Jimmy Carter to Carter. You're you're essentially reliant on yourself and the outcome for you is totally dependent on how much energy you put into trying to secure that outcome in other words. He's Reagan in in in in that sense he's What Reagan was attempting to portray? There's an individualism that is antithetical to the humanitarian democracy. But is is at home in the Christian political organization there's an inequality between the pulpit and the fucking actually what Republicans pretend to be. He he actually believes in personal responsibility. Government is the problem not the solution like he really is. This is what they must hate about him so fucking and and this is why they they have to constantly say Ronald. Reagan is the Best Republican. Whoever was there's a Meta Malays that I feel in reading this speech and starting out hearing him talk about like deep spiritual ritual ailments in America related to consumption and meaninglessness? We're all of a sudden we wind up at this place and say oh actually. This is Carter using Christian principles principals to subversively advocate for a kind of individualism under the auspices of advocating for communitarianism. Like that is as dark. April Eighteenth Two thousand eighteen rob Kiwi Robbie q bamboo boo works for peace traditional back. SCRATCHER SET I have purchased several backscratching. I have have purchased several back scratchers in my lifetime and most have fallen into one of two categories too much fat category one category one. Ho- home it does. It does. And that's pretty much all that it does or category to. Wow this thing is horribly made in a waste of money. Well I am very pleased to announce a third category Lori answer way. Robbie Kiwi for my backscratching history. Thanks to this four piece set that I purchased from bamboo works. That category is Wow. This is totally awesome first off. Let me start. I saw in the middle of view. Let me start by saying the workmanship these graduates have our top notch. This isn't your typical cheaply made piece of wood. Good to multiple backscratching. Here's what's backs. Go back scratchers four at a time so the family can gather around also every piece. Has Its own specialty. That will come in Handy based on the needs you may have at the time lean backslid. EDP scratch scratch my back and I'll scratch yours and yours and yours all family of four. Get get a fucking grade. Scratch the only problem. I can say I have had with this product. is they often come up missing. My family members spoil them. Don't bring them back. That's how good they are young. He's a raver. Something I think you did we. I have my reasons. Oh God you you have to imagine somebody who smells profoundly of fucking Dank at a Dave Matthews concert and they're wearing looks like a scrotum on their heads had to cover your dreadlocks but you're white man I dread locks does this set of fifty no glow Miss Education products addicts. He's review these. These are glows sticks basically yes. He's reviewed them back in one thirteen in his for. You got these open the canister and found on that most of the fifty six were not lighting up at all. I was so embarrassed. Handing these out to people that had my assistant if you're handing handing out since she's not able to afford it assistant move. I had my assistant run to party city and Bison which by away worked great. I had to refund my clients some money for the inconvenience. What is a glow stick world? Is this that you live in Sir. Some the money for the inconvenience which is never good thing i. I've purchased these over the past few decades and have never had a problem with them until now with cool glow which should change their company name to no glow. This was the second time that I ordered this from them. At the same thing happened both times even though I just I said that it was the first time never again spend the extra few dollars elsewhere and don't ever buy anything from these clowns. You will be happy you you did. Fuck US his boy Rhode Island novelty flashing. Led bumpy ring. Seventy two piece set has the same kind of review seventy piece set of of Rhode Island novelty flashing. Led Bumpy rings there agreeing there glorying Rhode Island style. I've given this company to chances and both times they have sent me. A box of a means. Duds Hey dudes box times Fox News. I can't even fathom a world where the sentence makes sense. Please get ready for it. Nothing is more embarrassing than being enforce. The handout rings don't flats over seventy five percent of your kids while the other twenty while the other twenty five percent walk around and rub it in. What's Dark Ring Kiwi fussy again? This is flash every every one of me. There's three you. Hey Hey you're fuck you'd refund. Thanks Rhode Island novelty. You've made my clients cry. I again if I can help out. This is his clients children. Children Him Him. Dj I yeah. I think he's flashing birthday party coordinator. Oh yeah he seems to be a fucking. Dj Put their kids. Yeah he's saying birthday year. The those were the Rhode Island rains because their that a pack of twelve. Get very easy to Holy Shit. He also also is the burn me once he's got pack a three hundred and a pack twelve and history. Let's see we usually check and see how how they waste of money. Yep this thing works great until the button shifts that you are forced to leave it on until the battery runs out which really is at least a few hours. It's sort of a mixed. Don't always the money. I guess is the final conclusion packet. Three hundred. Most of the pieces didn't work. Seems like they were already used bummer. Many kids got left out and I couldn't do my normal routine of buttering them up before the show get he you give him dark Greens. He keeps his buttered shoelace. He got extra extra fat shoelaces. One Star horrible horrible lace arrived snag in very poor quality. Plastic fell off after the first few days which rendered delays realizes useless. He bought some kind of Mitsubishi Replacement. Fucking Rob Kiwi. How're you doing so? RT RT TV lifetime convertible bench weirdest. She is a real what I imagine. A drying Owen Wilson Buying One star looks great until the photo panel start falling-off he's used that construction before a looks great until fundamental defect. While this thing looks it's like a quality made piece of furniture it will deteriorate right in front of your eyes in the span of weeks. The Wood slats also comically referred to by the manufacturer as weather resistant. Simulated Wood panels are fastened with what looks to be photo screws. Faux would four. Zero set is absolutely so good quality. And we'll break off one by one and curl upwards into that person that sits on them and one by one will break Gov until you are left with only a metal frame with no panels that you cannot sit on. What good is having something that won't quote owed Fade Rod crack chip or pill as they claim what it also won't say on the frame to allow you to sit on it because the tax screws or the holes they easily brace he asks rhetorically? Fortunately I bought two of these love them for the first few months now only one set is usable too bad they did not find a way. Eh Fasten the slats onto the frame. Because this thing was awesome into very much like a conversation piece when I bought two of these benches his five months later I have one dead and buried and one left with two broken slats and mortar cub. Very disappointing Holy Shit. It was and he falls. Were Conversation Pieces Eric. Now want US dead in other ones dying. He confirms a review for like replacement headphone pads for the beats headphones that he is a DJ. Yeah Oh yeah can we what. How many also has he's brought this ball launcher for? I like to throw a ball to your dog or whatever and he's struggling with it too much grip much grip on. Not sure if he needs to be broken in that tends he's just throw the ball straight down into the ground to its grip beat Utah. It's not my device. Bad's going down. That's two hundred dollar bench. She got fucked up to two hundred. I always love Robbie Kiwi devils down bench-wise is love of these people have nothing goes right for him. God what fucking gift uh-huh the John John Dewey. The teacher on the public nineteen thirty five quote not every form of activity even if it brings in some return to the person engaged in it is work is work only wanted productive of things that are valued others and value. Not simply in a particular case but when that kind of activity is generally of service those who live upon the work of others without rendering return are parasites of one kind or another. The man who lives upon interest or dividends or rent is so far as that includes what he does parasite there's something intellectually and morally as well as economically topsy turvy when onerous team and admiration go to a section of society because its members are relieved from the necessity of work to believe otherwise is to believe that those subtract from the real wealth of society instead of adding to it are the highest type. Everybody a sense of this statement in theory but in fact the attention given in this country the rich just because they are rich proves that we do not live up to our theoretical belief. Almost no one sense that now read yet. The idea of playing the stock market and retiring at thirty five is something like the national rely deal. Yeah but I. I think when pressed we have to say there's a dissonance between you're supposed theoretical belief that no one should be reciting and the way that you behave and who you revere and how you act right right. I see this cognitive dissonance. Play out all all the fucking time. It's not resolved but I suppose there's power of at least a rhetorical nature in pointing out that. Like you're betraying your principles as you articulate them. You were unsound Sir. WHO's Sir I dunno talking to like like someone who wants to make sure that there's a work requirement on Medicaid but also wants to retire at sixty on they were like stock market account or whatever? Yeah people like. Jeff bezos. Just take all that money in our really are parasites since there is no healthy way for them to live because because they lose their self because they are no longer in society and socially contributing Jeff bezos thinks. He works but he doesn't work at all. He doesn't produce things of value to other people. He's kind of like a vampiric greedy hoarding middleman of the worst kind whose weakening his citizens and like you to keep sight of that start to remember what a community is really. We should gather Americans and say we have have to fix this. This idea of seeing your life in America is a linear progress between being irrelevant poor insecure. You know Liable to sudden death or whatever and bankruptcy bankruptcy to as you move through life becoming more and more secure in your status the station and retirement accounts. Finally if you're really fucking good you end up a billionaire. Dad has to change. Because it's GonNa kill everyone on earth that idea. Yeah error in literally and and this is citizen Kane all over there. Yeah he'll danger there. You're not succeeding. It is an illusion. Warehouses are similar. It's not even a moral judgment newspaper. Man You dirty. Fuck what happens. Is you start looking at the people around around you as tools or things to be manipulated for your profit and success and you think that this is a good strategy but we lose is yourself yourself in a very real way because you lose your community and you fall into kind of paranoid delusion parasite life one liner from near the end of his life When he sort of saw the the failures some failures that we're talking about the failures of the new deal to materialize and the failures as of the two party system to become a three party system? Greed is good. You're you're you're Work will make you know If radicalism be defined find perception of need for radical change than today any liberalism which is not also radicalism is irrelevant and doomed. So that's an eighty year old man in nineteen fifty four government and the people need to be sort of thought of as the same entity and guess what nothing is yours. Read that one where the the governments of the people are. There's a connection what what is this again. Is like Georgia's yeah. Yeah Yeah Yeah Octagon houses so that guy. This is always make this mistake. I think Thomas George the man that you know the guy. I'm talking about George. It was just like we're GonNa let me tell you about my octagon house idea. And he had a little moment and you do know Octagon House idea deal. It was an idea and did he have a few. Yeah it became ultimate fighting. There's one in. DC is like some kind of embassy it's across across the street from the Corcoran right next to the don't be textures houses knowledge. You know all about this. What's public and what's private is whatever we fucking decide aside so if we want to put up electric lines to rural places like that's a great move by every sorry there's a maximum wage? Now Sorry Jeff. If this is a decision we make together another way to say that everything's public. The reason why we let you have private is 'cause public where what is the role of entities the private entities in his vision of democracy. They are false. Abstractions that wrongly portray what is a meaningless slice of the interwoven fabric of society. The entity uses that word is not part of education. We'd be learning to separate appearances from talking something right and the learning to. What is it genuine democratically healthy argument when people are being fair with you? And when they're being shitty city and it's going to involve in this day and age booking slogan radical media training targeted assassination. I would I would be like the angry Sandinista TV educator get fired up about you're doing democratic ideals because I'm all this class is going to be about how to watch TV intelligently fuck the economy there is such foolishness about the. There's a real danger that people are going to be like. You are going to be poor. Now he's a communist things. Yeah exactly. It's fucking idiots the next on Roper von Roper von robbers great we you should take a minute and just say like the beauty of this. I'm sure there are funny products. But it's it's the fact that you the soul is already there. You can see the way they add up to a very. Did you learn a lot about him. A great deal everything. There's nothing let's learn. That is clear shit. The second skin men's FOTY SPANDEX index in extra-large lime green all caps. This is what you want perfect. I don't know what more you could accept thinner. Material at the better covers is if you treat the reviews as documented. I love the way he eases you in Reebok Man's. NFL Had Philadelphia Eagles. Five stars great had flat room. That doesn't Bennett. I'm thinking is little all American and the next thing is the full neon green anything. What else can you need like four? What man fucking being free at the Eagles Game Ahead I read you loud and clear you need thinner nylon around the is in your fucking full soon soon? You are a freak. You see the deluxe. NFL Stadium approved clear. Bag Going to a stadium event. Then get this great bag very durable well-made. It is not auto group that is not a concern for me if it is for you to maybe look elsewhere. I am a roving beer salesman for sporting events and this bag worse for every stadium that I go every mother to whatever stadium he wants to sell here. I see why the. NFL proved thing the way the Zipper is set up. It makes it easy to close even if you over pack it. Do I over pack. Yeah no problem now. This clear. Beautiful opening beer salesman next. You GET A pan. And he's like he's like I'm cooking pressure cooker by the way you're when it's time to peel off. The green suit stopped being a super fan. You know we've got the sunglasses before that can do the knife. Yeah yeah sure Five star knife great knife for your daily tasks asks why I use this almost every day about this instead of a box cutter to use to open boxes from orders I receive and put away in a commercial kitchen. I am no kicking myself for not getting a knife like this until now I find uses for it all day long in and and out of work I have a belt grinder and after sharpen every couple of weeks but someone who doesn't have a sharpener. This may be a problem as it does Dole quick he. This is practically a confession to me. The Smith optics lead frontman sunglasses. Best Sunglasses I've owned yet on says in black bronze mirror color color. These glasses are perfect for me and my uses. I live in Florida and ride a scooter. Oh my Gosh and water sport in these glasses. Last isn't I would be hard pressed to find a better all around. Then these I of medium slash large head so okay and at first I thought these were too big but now I love the way they look on my face and they provide absolute full coverage to my eyes they are lightweight and there is not a better lens the chrome Oh pop period parentheses. Everybody here in Florida insist on Costas but I find these far superior. The price is high but once you want a pair of sunglasses you we'll see why people shell out the bucks for all right what he's doing all right. So we've learned a little bit about van. Laura water spar. Beer your salesman and now we have a five star review for the waste. King Legends series one horsepower continuous feed garbage disposal tenure the garbage disposal. I bought this based on the reviews and they did not disappoint. There are two reviews for an identical product. That is a piece of wire used to pick up. Shit that has fallen through slats. He's like this. One is for the tectonic. Twenty four inch club hiccup tool I must have must have. This tool is used for my work when credit cards and ID's fall through cracks in the deck charm. And I looked like the hero works well the clean debris out of drainpipes pipes and getting things that fall behind things that you don't want to move for the price the tool is a must have and then the oem tools four o'clock pickup tool a year. Earlier I work in a restaurant where there is a deck with gaps in it people will drop everything under the sun down there and I have not had to spend more than one minute to get any of these items out. I look like a hero and it only costs me three dollars and I've gotten tipped that fifty times so he works detail. Works at a restaurant works. Selling beer has a two year old daughter. Son Sons. And for the Golden Gate. Grinders two inch ultimate herb grinder. He Won Star. This is not for kitchen this lead. I don't know over. It's fair for me to give this one star but the label is misleading. This is not for herbs used in the kitchen. Well not in my kitchen. Hello what what is he saying like. I don't smoke pot in my kid. He's giving a one-star reviewed well. We'd grind. He apparently bought Gripe Oregano herbs. He also I think he's got Allergy Situation Yeah. Did you see the Sinus beds. Nothing helps put these and these are the cheapest. He bought a smoker in two thousand thirteen. Thirty inch black electric digital smoker. The title of this review is you won't even want to eat on smoked food anymore. It's a smoker's beast it's a fucking fucking beasts is a single father right. You won't even want to eat unspoken food dude. You're GONNA smoke all your ship. You also has an axe. Oh spread your legs wide so you don't miss several toe. He gives you General Act Sweet. Tips reviews jammies a good jam. Greatest Greatest Journey. Sometimes we started in time. We start closest to now and we move as it moved down move backwards in time. It's nice to see the earlier. Eagles Pat don't get me wrong. It's in what does it mean to art. He has green. Sudi is all these clause. He bought a calculator that like spits out. Numbers on a team Rousson the the accounting at the restaurant. I mean the idea that could save is about a calculator works grade. Couldn't be happier. Couldn't go and get one for your office. Needs today worth the money. Just just keep it clean keep it clean. We also learned his son's name is Jackson J X no and and he has the button extenders for the pants. You know what I mean. He's trying to trying to slip in there a little snug. No problem no problem. It's just just like that. I bought an axe crackerjack Beta product apparently called cracker jacked Aker jacked sweet and savory clusters and he goes it. He's really interesting idea. But falls short he says falls short they are good but there are two problems blooms. In my opinion I there are very small pieces of hard on popped popcorn mixed in with the caramel coating on them. I bite down almost cracked by Tuesday. The Chew Gingerly Second. It says salty but they are very salty more salt than I care for and I have been no need assault Bagel Eagle here and there. I'm a fucking salt feed and still too much for me. I will probably try another bag. But that's a common thing in crazy person. There's I is not one for a thing to help. Beat a drug test right. And he's like to help. You is a shampoo fuck up the hair drug test and the review. The only review on Amazon as I was I've tried these a few times. They never work in in the May nineteen seventy-nine issue of the Atlantic. James Valoise does former Carter. Speechwriter writes. I came to think that Carter believes fifty things but no one thing. He holds explicit thorough positions on every issue under the sun done but he has no large view of relations between them no line indicating which goals reducing unemployment human rights will take precedence over which inflation control assault treaty when the goals conflict spilling out these choices makes the difference between a position and a philosophy but it is enact foreign to Carter's mind. He's he's a smart man but not an intellectual in the sense of liking the play of ideas of pushing concepts to their limits to examine their implications values that others would find wind contradictory complement one. Another in his mind Breton Caen is that the only three reviews to his name. I don't don't Johnno Breton. Knee right or Bretagne knee. What pre ten can be re Tangy? Hydrate Spark two point. Oh Smart Smart. Hopefully it's defective. It's by hydrates bar. I really wanted to reach the goal of drinking a full gallon of water every day and and felt that this would be a very helpful tool to monitor my progress smart water I placed the order and receive the bottle a week later. I'm wrapped the bottle. Came and I think it was my phone. He's he's given us like the full. Hemingway you think it took two tries and a ten minute youtube video to figure it out after I. It seemed to be working fine the following day. I used it and notice that in the settings portion of the APP the battery said very alot confused promptly sent an email to hydrates customers confused. I promptly sent an email. They responded fairly quickly and said that this this is a common problem in which they informed me that it should last four months. Now hold on. He's confused the battery's low. The the company's telling him the battery should last for months. He's battery operated water water batteries and what about you know how difficult it is to monitor in your water. Alex how are you ever fucking no. It's easy to get lost in like the minute. Show the problem not realizing the batteries around the world the old optimist pessimists I uh-huh Really Baby Pa. The battery died two full days. After I set up the bottle the change the battery. It was easy enough great. That was yesterday today. Check my savings on the bottle again and again Dan. It says very low. How could this is Brent? Spurs is. ABC Good how could go on. How could something is supposed to be? betrayed confused. How could something that is supposed to be worry-free for months not work? After less the twenty four hours the second issue with this item as not turned on my favorite colon. The bottle does not accurately record your consumption how that go on I have been monitoring how much water I put into the ball using a separate seconds. How things figured out I've been monitoring monitoring how much water I put into the bottle and it is off sometimes by ten plus ounces of a plus I am hoping that the just this bottle is just effective although there are many other reviewed knows similar situation this bottle? I am sending this one back and I did. Purchase your fucking. See this I am going to give this one more shot. These people don't want believe it to fifty five dollars. There is a lot of money for a water bottle especially when you can measure your consumption accurately with something else not sure how I can justify this purchase just with all of these bugs purchases plural son. Yeah we'll update this review after I get the replacement stay tuned. We're all stay tuned huge the Carter and Roosevelt in their fireside chats. They both seem to be trying to educate the people. But I think we just know that like one dude was super effective at that dude. Kind of irked people. I mean it's funny because they sound identical in tone and content to me and The mistake on Carter's part may have been in trying to emulate road all tomb literally. You know I think Roosevelt had more passion in in that gold speech. We listened to back in the day. I remember him saying like. Don't worry we got it. Everything's great here's the thing we're going to do and you can sleep soundly and no need to wait into the weeds with me. Because I'm on top of it. Serves that kind of thing. I'm confident there is no crisis mistaken impression of a crisis. We're on the move. Get on my back and we'll be fine. We're on the move. He's radical and bike. The that's the difference being patrician makes Carter's willful. Ignorance fellas writes his blissful list. Foil Tabula Rasa could to me be explained only by a combination of arrogance complacency and dread thought insecurity at the core of his mind and soul soul. There is a whole base of Northern Democrats. Who may have never quite trusted Carter owing to his religiosity? Yeah that was definitely the tack that most liberal elites and journalists took that yeah like the scopes trial lived for them in a way that it doesn't quite live for us. Yes it's weird. How often I find myself turning to Christianity? I feel like that's sort of a cheap moves. He's out there right now. At Ninety whatever eight years old telling you that it's the motivating thing for him. Yeah but that's not the same thing as to imagine we understand it. No I don't mean to say I imagine we understand it there. He's a way in which it's totally coherent view Carter as somewhat respectively above some of this shit in a way that makes sense so backfire in a way that seems like an absolute tacit indictment of everyone who isn't above this shit I just. I don't think I want to get laws passed. I just don't think it's your job. It has a -sarily when you say you're going to take on this massive country with all these different interest groups did not be willing to. I don't know do more governing grimy impure transactional just the the mess of governing. I feel like there's a interest I in moral clarity. That was not what you need in government even if it was an important thing. So I said good ex-president in some ways because he doesn't really want to govern he wants to call George better angels or something it's and to his credit. He did Almost single-handedly not his own two hands but through his own efforts eliminate the fucking Guinea worm a parasite of eyeballs in western Africa. Something no one else had been able to do right right. And and there was an explicit. Call as I as I hear you talk about like really. It was just too much moral clarity. Not Enough Nitty Grit. We just come from Nitty Grit city dying for moral clarity ready in a president. American wanted moral clarity. They had all these doubts. And then it's A. I think a nick feels like then they wanted a reassurance not realness I sort of think like okay but a boy it seems like there's some kind of a third path that I wish we have taken where we reminded people that government can can conserve people and accomplish good things. I really believe that. GotTa do we do. We gotTA pocket Spitzer. Do you guys have a leaning one way or the other. Are these two American ghosts of Akin in what they wanted our democracy to be absolutely But they're also taking on their flaws to to the reason why it surprising that even journalists come out for Reagan or even for Carter is that there was a big preposition. You wouldn't get involved in secular politics right and and do he's a little bit like that too. There's a sense that the society he is envisioning. America ought to be so radically different from the one that it actually is that. There's a percents that does he's not really connecting with the secular world is it exists. But it's but it's a principle of becoming the dewey articulates. The absence of a Priori permanent permanent ideal principles like the principles of Christianity. Sort of. Make it so that all that there is here now and you are as an individual are only as is important As you are an individual in society harder says like the agent of change is in the White House. It's in every house. He said something like that. I think like this is one of the great temptations of Democratic idealism as you say like I am my contribution to society democracy at large our ideals or like this ongoing conversation. And you forget the key part doing saying it starts at home. It's a local. It is face to face. It doesn't start like in every house it starts in your house it starts. You know it's small you build out Out It isn't about grand. Moral missions is about authentic local conversation. He just says it's going to be hard. Hard choices are necessary if we want to avoid consequences does that are even worse that is not like hey through imaginative creativity explore and cultivate the interest of you as a member of society and and express them experimentally. That's like here's the rule. It's going to be tough and suffering is beautiful. That's I think. Anti Democratic there is a attempt emp to be objective and expert and comprehensive in. Carter's work that I think is the result of like real integrity and sincere effort but plays into the very criticism of Lippmann and Dewey. which is there's a gap between a citizen and the whole problem? Even if that citizens the president a democracy the premises none of us really has the answer no matter how good we are a slightly worse person who was in touch with their flaws like like might have gotten more stuff done for better or for worse he was not willing to entertain the dialogue between ends and means that do sort of advocate it. He was not willing to entertain a metaphysics of the universe. Where really as we are like Bergson unfolding in community together that are ends and means are like inextricably tied together? I I think you really thought they were ends. And means and he's there were just certain paths. He wasn't going to go down period in asking for that goodness. Hey we're able to sacrifice what seems like moral moral clarity to you. Less privileged people who are struggling be asked to sacrifice Moore. Say the guess what is going to be fair and governments elements on the answer feels like a suction do people like maybe needed the government. Show up there's a business to Carter's willingness to like take crisis an example my get dirty for the rest of us and that's that's a legitimate criticism that a lifelong DC bureaucrat. Could level right and that. That's a wave wave excusing. A lot of shitty politics and double-dealing Fat Carter was not willing to entertain. He's definitely A champion of the amalgamation automation of capital. And the idea. That progress will proceed in lockstep as long as in a balanced as long as every department gets exactly Ackley what they need and no more Carter in the inflation speech says now workers. How are you going to trust that? The employers aren't GonNa fuck you and employers. How are you going to trust that? If you don't fuck the workers the workers aren't GonNa fuck you over. Well it's kind of like everyone's standing up at a football stadium and everyone can see and could see when everyone's sitting down to but that means everyone's gotta I sit down. Everyone's gotta stand up or everyone's gotta sit down. Who the fuck are you telling us to all do one thing at one time like there's diverse interests here? We have have a system where we creatively explore those interests or whatever like be more nuance Carter is the to me a little bit like the semi tragic proof that America is. I'm not a Christian country and was never supposed to be the sense in which all Christians of whatever righty but especially fucking evangelical Christians all feel like they're on the same page with each other and that by extension they're on the same page all of humanity. But they've all made the conscious decision to embrace Christ and get washed in the blood. Or whatever and to approach a really heterogeneous group of people like Americans large as though you're on the same page with them a recipe for doing absolutely fucking nothing right. That's not be accurate interests is like LBJ was a Venal Like money grubbing psychopath. But the one thing I think he did appreciate was recognizing different points of view as just a starting point for convincing. Someone you're right. That is so deeply Democrat right. That's right arguments and seeing the other man and figuring out figuring out what they want one. Would you have to do in the dirty dealing. And in the dewey democracy. What is it that you want and why Dan Dan Dan Willard? He's kind of a boring dad making lamed jokes for in most of the reviews but the collection of of his eighty six reviewed products are really tell a story we have a we have a dog shock collar and he he reports that he can't feel a thing will now this is going to be a theme. Okay it's a three star review of Reindeer Antlers for your car first off on sold while it's not the the only review that you will read of Reindeer Antlers for your car. My daughter reported that there are still a slight gap at the top of her window. When these are installed she didn't in Deir put them in on a rainy day? which is rather counter-productive considering the Georgia weather in December when fucking car antlers are are not being productive? That's the worst fucking deodorant. Oh Oh no the the review titles saying she always smells good. You know. I've never sniffed my daughter-in-law out to see if this works for her or or not since she requested some for her Christmas stocking in two thousand sixteen review in two thousand eighteen. I assume it works for her. I bought enough for stocking for this year and the next that and I assumed it worked on the one St this is this is his mode he gives a gift. Here's here's nothing. He's little women colon. The soundtrack original motion picture soundtrack five-star surprisingly soothing music for soundtrack from a movie about noisy women. Elo that was. So that's the soundtrack the DVD of little women also purchased. We got four stars to be enjoyed. I didn't hear any complaints from my daughter about this. DVD that is a good thing he says the soundtrack my daughter loves this soundtrack. All of his reviews are about what members of his family a younger lizard. do or don't think it was on her Christmas. Wish list for Santa. I am her Santa Hence I bought it for her charge. Charge record for the daughter review. My daughter hasn't said did she can't charge right but gloves. Google right fucking glove review. Three stars can't rate. What I don't know is avent heard from my son that these don't work aspect? Yeah that's right. This is all they give on February. Six two thousand eighteen. You went on this review spree reese so much so that his review for the Belkin twelve hundred surge protector power strip is titled. The jury should hear the case before it could render a verdict. I'm spending a great take time reviewing items today but this is one that I haven't had time to plug in yet. I love with any new information. You see a high right that review you see the cracker barrel Gift Card interview. Three stars were as expected. Food was okay but this isn't a review of cracker barrel reviews the Amazon Dot Com gift card balance reload and says the process was easy enough and it served my purpose. Why Three Stars Matt? NBC Hate is not strong enough word. Here what good is this APP on my smart Rtd. He's just totally exploring the space mountain woods. Eighteen inch lazy. Susan spins like a dream tilts like a drunken man. I had head to replace the inadequate ball bearing turntable three inches for an eighteen inch. Lazy Susan Come On. What do the math? I bought an attached and ninety bearing and it spins as fast as a racecar drives another reindeer auto outfit gets a one star review. What's the point? It does not fit KIA vehicles if you want your windows to keep out the rain. What is the point yet he is? He is arrate on the fucking edge man. Another like jury is out because I haven't used it yet. Review the belt he shines that's How can wind chimes really let you down? It's the thing that's the right question. Are they broken. They must be broken. one-star don't fall for the description. Like guy did did our identity. Well what's up description for this wind. Chime is definitely exaggerated to the point where I felt like I had been had I imagine pipes yes. They're up to twenty nine inches in length but the specified length was top of the hanging. Loop to the bottom of the wooden thing hanging down. I could have been more happy with it if the people we gave it to for Christmas. Hadn't Oakland in wind chimes that. Were that size that I expected these to be. They were very gracious though even though I felt cheap I'm glad they didn't mock him right away. Like hey micro chime acidic. This guy's amazing this is. You can't be a normal person in live your life like this really bought his Son and daughter-in-law a his and occurs piggy-bank sort of novelty gag gift in February six. That's reviewed like got them in their reaction was as expected. But there's another review. It says no gap between the pigs. No fucking cab. There's a human soul in all vulnerabilities fierce trying to navigate eight social situations economic situations the environment. And it's just how can a grill coverlet. Let you down so bad Danny. Will this this grill. Cover is a piece of crap. When I discovered this it was too late to return it? I only gave this a star because I had to in order order to do a review otherwise would have been zero stars right. I didn't get this on my grill soon enough to find out that it was a piece of crap before my thirty they return period was up. I had not yet used a grill and place this cover Armagh. He's I had thirty days. Fuck behind when I went to use the grill for the first time the cover already had a tear in it just from draping over the edge of glory. I always always lead my grill's cool ours always before I play cover on them. How dare you be assuming it was my cooling error yet? The next time I took this cover off my grill by brand new grill had white plastic stuck to it from the inside of the cover. You feel that you really do in a very real way fucked as it has weathered one Georgia summer it is mildewed ugly it represents every disappointment Oy have endured. There are no say there is no reindeer. And there's there's nothing but the silence breaks the second you can't return it. I lifted into place it back over my grill last Saturday and the handle nearly tore off. I hate it ain't it. Is that how you really feel. Then but that's a mild statement for my true feeling. WE PLAN TO KILL I. Hey feel bloodlust. People will bleed for their deception by maybe a tiny little nobody could. I will be heard he. Even when my chimes go silent reindeer or your fucking window. VENGEANCE VENGEANCE will fucking the rain on me. Willard have fucking revenge Do you you revoking in the review of the lever. The one-star hate this lever. Dan Dan I wish I wish be us here to really see what he's built. uh-huh what's happening on some level is dead. Capitalism is unfair. And it's sad and it's a fucking lonely and you get fucked all all the time by your various proxy. It's not what you thought it. Lets you down it breaks. And you're just sitting. You're fucking lonely house. Putting your Goddamn damn firm on Cologne and cuffs. He can unlock. Or whatever you happen to be up to you and there's nobody to tell that powerlessness you're like I'm GonNa fucking review. I think myself all the time. Like how many yelp these fuckers and I just never do it my life because it's kind of proximal magic that has occurred. Get these products to you in the first place and so oh but what you're really trying to do is give yourself relief of frustration. So what happens. Is You lose focus. And you started like just spilling your story area. You're like and once again so called the only todd got fucked again. There are tons of Amazon reviews as you. Maybe you've run into where the person's like you know what I didn't like about this product is it was an entirely different product than one shot and this happens all the time on Amazon and I think people must feel. You'll really hurt by that experience to the point where you get a grill brush. You've read the SPEC sheet. You're like all right. Let's put this through the old ringer. Take out the tape right right and just sort of be like where being lied to because we are in fact all too yeah and nobody holds them accountable. Rather people are like. We don't have time and within that clutter and noise. There are people shrieking their truth. Yeah the fact that people's lives creep through in this way through sometimes flood through flood through locked overnight through it's absurd to think how vividly we're encountering person in product situation but the the the different from me because they have no fear of a thing that I'm deeply afraid of they're like these fucking island. Birds can't fly when the sailors show up. The birds like walk right into either like sailor hands or whatever like they've never learned to be afraid of gigantic in Tech Company and so they quite like naively say things about themselves in public on the Internet in a way I would never even occur to me like I wouldn't even have to stop myself. It's so second nature to me not to fucking reveal anything about myself On a corporate Internet sales warehouses platform. I think they can be convinced that this is a fine and safe space to sort of speak about about their lives because it might be that this is a huge part of American life is to be like what products did you buy. And why. Why didn't you and maybe this used to go on all all the time at the one town store? It is in a certain way like baby shoes never worn. What's interesting or or alluring? Amazon reviews is the way in which in the cracks. Between in your words. We're going to figure out like tragedies and successes and you can't help but reveal them apparently if you read enough about products they treat Amazon like a platform like really really. I think it is all as being Amazon so often but it isn't unreasonable. If you get cheated by product to ride review the most popular platform in the world and spread that Information Wolf Den. Apparently people are reading it. Well Yeah and what else are you supposed to do. Yeah yeah that's really I mean what else are we supposed to number one would be like What is the personal shit doing in your view? It's it's really only there to personally you on Justin you just want the business transaction you all. I mean If I wanted to make these people's lives less miserable and there evidently fucking miserable. It said some of them some of them are really fucking miserable. Only I would like Provide an alad if I could for that need to express what's miserable and lonely about their light like what like talking to them. Yeah like talk. Don't don't read Amazon if you talk to me. Not as a general principle for fixing Amazon reviews but as when you're confronted with a lonely miserable person in other words they might say to you like that's why I wrote it like I had to get it off my chest and then there are truly fucking nuts and I don't want anything to do. Why because a creepy in thinking that? They're accomplishing anything by putting their putrid toxic. Shit on the news. You should only do things if you're accomplishing them. Like you're getting paid year Labor Bucks. They're being personal in a featureless white void. Okay their pricing no. No one is ever going to check on them. No one's ever going to ask them if there is no one's going to say how's your son. Dorothy crass lead say I got that one and it fucking sucked you. That happens all the time. Then that's just a review. That's not personal. I I got that one. It fucking sucked. Let me tell you I I was trying to jazz. All My sons dance to answer seidel because my son bless his heart. He's a great dancer. Climate Really Nice. Why would you examine? Just take that Bran Muffin and work with me on this on this. It's fucking traded for Frisian with me just for me because I agree with you and you can you. Can you can hear in those segments that we all are laughing and I think everybody I know would because it's so like alien or whatever but in terms of our own opinions. I also am ashamed. I think at the question of democratic competence in neighborliness and how awkward we are all are and be like. Keep your personal stuff to yourself. Don't you know you should just fishing. Leave fucking walk to the Uber and Uber to the thing and get the fuck out of my way and then all this. This is like like we should try to say ourselves. Persons can be a little. That's one way of looking at it. My way of looking at it is that it's great to be personal. It's great to see the other people and attempt to interact with them. The fucking creepy thing is doing that in a big box store where no one gives a shit about that. We gave a shit about it. Customers or potential central customers are reading. These things one has to admit we are reading them as texts and stacking them up against each other but like I really do read them sadly when I'm evaluating purchases. Yeah and you know. I don't know that I like super duper care about how Jim is doing. Or whatever but I'm like I might say to myself in my head like that Guy Nailed Ailton on on the review. Something like that. That's that's definitely catered well and but like the the degree to which there's personal should in those reviews and the degree to which you think that personal should adds anything. It's it's like reading. Somebody's diary to learn a foreign language. Well what is wrong with the personal stuff that it's in there with like. Why is it so wrong? Because they don't see that the forum in which they're communicating. This personal information has been designed to be Eli Muscovite and game line and everything turned into data or or they. Don't they refuse to bow down to that. They are going on about the granddaughter anyway. Then it as much as they're doing that consciously consciously they are in the in fact noble i. I wonder if it's happening a quart Amazon or in service of the problem that we're talking about is like an increasingly urgent one. Like all the time it comes up that I you feel fucked and cheated and you sir how you have to try and figure out who the fuck you are going to talk to and complained to him and it definitely is an Amazon. Yeah but that doesn't mean the place to talk about it isn't it was. I could imagine just like someone like really trying hard to make a connection failing and sort of leaving the bar and wondering why he failed and but at least he was trying the right way or something like that. I'd want to say like that didn't go as bad as things could go these days. You know yes and there is that had quality attends on. I read like these Amazon reviews where people just sort of like unfurl where I think like. Yeah this is not the right place and you're never gonNA like succeed exactly exactly but I'm glad that you're motor still turns like I'm glad that this is happening for you. And there's really no rule ward for writing an Amazon Dayton. It's not for your friends and family. We were looking at them. Admire you as a writer. You really are just anonymously talking to what you assume. We'll be a community of people once. If you wrote a review can be like about ten people voted it helpful. And what is this. A user said thanks ostrich man ninety nine for the review. That's that's a that could be. That could be gratified bye. Yeah everyone's being squeezed so hard to like deep parts of their mental anatomy you're ending up being splattered on Amazon Dot Com which is scary very very very personally frightening to me and also funny like a Sam Beca kind of way because we are on Amazon Dot Com to AH l. uh-huh.

Carter Carter America The Review President Carter United States John Dewey president Carter Georgia Ted Kennedy Amazon apple Ronald Reagan Matthew Lesko government Jimmy Shuto Breezy Wafa
20VC: Firstmark's Rick Heitzman on The Rise of Pre-Emptive Rounds, His Biggest Learnings From The Pinterest Board, 2 Things VCs Can Do To Prepare Their Companies For The Downturn and Why Now Is A Good Time to Be Contrarian and Invest In Consumer

The Twenty Minute VC

44:02 min | 1 year ago

20VC: Firstmark's Rick Heitzman on The Rise of Pre-Emptive Rounds, His Biggest Learnings From The Pinterest Board, 2 Things VCs Can Do To Prepare Their Companies For The Downturn and Why Now Is A Good Time to Be Contrarian and Invest In Consumer

"You are listening to the Twenty Min- NBC. With me. Harry stabbings and now from San Francisco but what are we. It was all bad. And if you'd like to see more on that you can find me on Instagram at age stubbings nineteen ninety-six aches with TV's. I always loved. See that power to the state and is it true venture that I am. I've always heard modern respected this individual. He's incredible firm for many years and so I'm very thrilled to welcome to the whole see. Stay Rick Heights men. Rick is the founder and partner at first capital one of the leading east coast venture funds of the last decade with a portfolio including the likes. RBM Be pinterest envision shopper Fai and discord just to name a few as for rake he led the seed around Pinterest and also led the deals. I mark in Rhode Right Games. Dr King's discord AIRBNB prior to founding. I Mart they rate was also an entrepreneur as a founding member of first advantage which he helped grow and sell to first us. American brings. They've been recognized by CB insights on the New York Times as a top one hundred BBC. Globally I do so on. Say he signed he zakat row and bath McNamara at first I mark some fantastic questions gestures today. I mean he's on me for that team. I really do appreciate it but before we dive into the show's Day. I'm sure you've heard about it. But my word this product I love Carter. Carter Carter simplifies. How stops investors manage? Accuracy turned count tables and get valuations. GO TO CARTER DOT COM for slash Tuesday to get temps and off and more than eight hundred thousand employees and shareholders. He's called to manage hundreds of billions of dollars of accuracy and Carter now offers fund admin. So you can see real time. Data in the call to platform and work with Causes Team Experienced Fund accountants also in the background GOTO DOT COM forward slash two zero to get ten percent off. And it's being of companies that have taken all ecosystem by storm. I have to talk about Brax Company which built the corporate card for startups. And who is the fastest company to reach Unicorn Stacy's in history bryce founders. Henry Can Patrick. It builds a payments business in Brazil kept getting rejected for Cooper Card in the states so they built brax with no personal liability up to twenty times I called limits and huge awards. A seven is points on Uber and lift for excellent Brash Travel and two excellent SAS soft lab if you're a visa by a startup based in the US see if you qualify for today brex extort calm and get copies way for life by entering the Code Harry during sign up and finding you have to check out running. Science is the easiest way to grow organic traffic and get your content ranking higher in Google their AI powered platform uses real time search data and natural language processing to help you cross content that is highly relevant to searcher intent and maps directly Riley to what users are searching for for customers with loss of landing pages you can leverage rank sciences SEO AB testing platform to easily task which html changes caused an uplift in such such traffic also as an added bonus platform also allows markses to me SEO enhancements to websites without eating up precious engineering resources rang signs is used by hundreds of companies to grow organic traffic from startups to publicly traded companies including the lice of builds zoom gold belly sweetness and Korea Karma ranks on dot com forward slash chooser the first month free be enough for me and now without further ado I'm very excited to welcome Rick Heights men founder and partner at first capital you have now arrived at your destination rake walken. I Say I've wanted to see. This is Santorum. I've I've had so many great things from so many founders. Say the team in Michigan Bassa. Thank you so much for joining me. Stay rage well. A little scared about what my partners had to say but excited excited by the longtime listener. I mean it was incredibly truthful. Feed by guest scary tariff lying. But how did you make your way into the world of Ventura. I'm one of the best performing funds lost decade and I mock rage. So you know. There's probably two ways I got into venture I in the mid nineties when you are in the first grade. Brian was in distress. Buyouts out of college I became an investor. I was always fascinated by investing in distressed by outs and then as I understood in inserted using using the Internet I realized that this is going to be fundamentally different and would my life be so much better if I could be part of a growing pie. Fundamentally changing inching growth as opposed to fighting over shrinking pie in distress buyouts. And therefore I transitioned to the C and spent some time in Beechy both in San Francisco in New York before leaving entrepreneur and then loops back in later in life. I do you WanNa touch on that kind of transition out eventually. Because it's a super interesting. When he founded founded the company told her name on that? Why did you come to the world of venture I my passion was always investing unfortunately have a very short attention span so the the ability to work with a lot of people a lot of projects on the hardest projects probably suited my personality more and it was always interested in what was happening next so working on what was happening next in a range of industries with the brightest people I could find was just fascinating business challenge and although different much worse due to my personality are you just paying a startup operator and growing companies and it's exactly the same reason for me the reason Hulu the twenty minute vc? Because the short attention but I do want to question the pollen shoots that Howdy gaining the entrepreneur's perspective how did that. Impact your mindset as an investor. I think there's probably two things and they don't really understand stand and I was not a operator before I see and then became an entrepreneur. That you you understand that. You have to have a deep empathy for entrepreneurs I read when you talk about people and People's performance in the organization. They're just not boxes on a chart. And when you talk about cutting expenses you're changing powerpoint real human impact of those elements in your might be having to replace somebody who is a longtime member of your team or there might be some nuance. It's which you can't capture in a couple of hours before meeting reside bar so you understand that the journey is much more nuanced and complex. You get at first glance. I absolutely love that in terms of not empty especially in terms of the team itself being more than just bosses on the Org Chart I do want to discuss. Any of the theme of change saves so much has changed within the ecosystem the macro cycles use of member. Do you WanNa start from the very top. So on the mccray you mentioned that you entry venture in the mid nineties. When I was in grade sappy happy Rick Nash born in the mid nineties brutal Eric move swiftly pastas even evanger since then you've seen the boom and bust of dot com home two thousand and eight? We Have Joe Foss Journal Michelle and he said that seeing the bus made him more conservatives powdered seeing the boom bust impacts your investing mindset today Rick it definitely made me more conservative in the bus preneurs in two thousand one and you know you're kind of living and mouth. I was trying to raise money between thanksgiving. Thanks giving and Christmas of two thousand one post September eleventh during the holidays age and everyone thought the Internet was a pet rock and nothing was really happening. Technology Technology. It's all a fraud to a really made me very focused on capital efficiency and risk capital. I think is I mentor. Manage companies. I have been more conservative. Conservative than I have been focused on a lot of controlling your own destiny as opposed to maybe being more aggressive in pushing the throttle more and as I catch myself doing knowing that it may be unable to get feedback for my fellow board members or entrepreneurs that I partner with it's helpful to say oh willing to push this further and puts you further on the risk spectrum and whether that's payback cured on investment or different way to expand into new markets I feel like I'm always thinking about both the upside. And the downside of Sir. Can I ask one big question of me. It's really interesting hearing that risk mindset analysis. Because one question I always ask is how do you know when to pour fuel on the fire and a lot of people say on the show when unit eighty can only. It's what I looked at some of our biggest companies today annual Uber's INSTA- costs of the walls. Black actually put fuel on the fly away before and you'd have to Project Unity Cohn quite a few years ahead before you really see that upside. How do you think about Lens? The right time to really pull fuel Probably thinking about it in you have capital is available. Are you risking the comforting. So if you think you're getting close to making you to economic work where you think on a risk reward basis by pushing pushing forward and whether that's creating density and the geography of your Uber Lift. Were any kind of marketplace business where you need repeat usage and density to really drive life underlying fundamentals of union phenomena. You can buy ahead of the curve by knowing that if if you're able to achieve these operating metrics the business will work better overall. We're all I think the second piece of that would be. Are you able d have enough confidence. Enter able to take on enough financing risk that you're able to go and do that. So Hoover Oren looks. Basically had an infant financing cool at a very cheap cost the capital therefore they were able to experiment more and push themselves more out on the risk if you have founders founders who are excellent fundraising and they're able to portray a vision which is very broad and obviously build a very big company. You have the opportunity community experiment not only in products but in the economics of Your Business. I'm really in CD said that and I'm so sorry for getting all schedule so much sooner than I thought I would use at about buying ahead of the curve happen something that I'm seeing just continuously. I'm not sure if it was great and the sign of a thriving ecosystem or a concern in the sign of inflation the mccray but is preemptive rounds. How do you do you think about the massive rise? We seeing in preemptive rounds today. Amazing that I would say most of the rounds we'd see our companies are never raising money and a couple of things. We've you've seen We've seen early in the cycle may be opposed seed and we hear that they're not raising money in the race in a few months and then a few weeks later at the routes already thought show who are take on it as an investor wants to be in the best companies is your job as investors to invest so any company. That's meeting with you. They should assume that that you're interested in investing in they're interested in hagey investment dollars. So you can't reactively wait for someone to raise their hand. And so they're raising you have to proactively. That'd be focused on the best companies in the best entrepreneurs and basically proactively kickoff financing process by putting term cheater being more aggressive. Now I absolutely. MCI Love that in terms of the pro active outbound that it's one of the things that's changed in the venture ecosystem as a whole and I do want to discuss the ventricular system as we said you've seen over the last two decades in your mind house. Venture evolved as an asset cross over the last twenty years rich. There's generally become a professionalism adventure as an asset class of less twenty years it was still small small partnerships with Teams to end really much more a ad hoc humidity that had maybe someone of a deep community in Silicon Valley around. We won twenty Boston. I think is the industry has matured on the whole scene. Those communities become more structured. You've seen terms look more like companies if you look at the biggest for all the services. A pyramid form of management of the their own human capital and their own organization. It's gone from being artists and business on the whole being a structured business that looks more like the buyout group. I think that they're both positives and negatives to the formalization of eventually sentricon cannot. I'm very much a fan of the autism view venture and it really being that mall crawfish based partnerships. Happy about it in stride. Do you think well you're GONNA lose that autism kids know feeling given the volume of debt of companies that we're seeing the algorithm may play that we sing a lot of Corn Alia even early stage funds. Do you think we might lose that autism I don't think we're GONNA lose it because there was folks like you or I really treasure that they really view working with an entrepreneur as a partnership and not being especially at the earliest stages solely driven quantitative or being data driven in their office. So I think you're going to have a choice of which direction you go and is entrepreneur. You could pick even large firms come at the world more like a craftsman like a benchmark capital Renault. You've had some of their parts on or you come at the world with much. Is More structured approach with a full army of people helping you in certain entrepreneurs would rather go in that direction so just be like having chocolate and vanilla ice cream. Downs printers owners can choose from me perfectly with the mention of benchmark because I wanted to ask one changes obviously the supply of capital in the market stay and Bill Gurley foam benchmark set on the show the biggest biggest challenge. She faces is the oversupply of capital in the mall. It's Day how do you think about this. Let's start with battle oversupply. There's over supply of capital. That might be a bit selfish in. I wish there was a lot less capital Lot less competition and therefore that would drive from just Supply Demand Perspective lower pricing for me as the B C. See with the same quality of Mantra. Preneurs so I think that there's an oversupply capital BC market our talking to my friends who are investment managers or other asset classes. They believe the same thing. So as you're looking at a decade of a bull market drew historically low interest rates across the board and therefore fixed income everything else is basically overcapitalize and it's really depressing returns across all asset classes. You mentioned kind of flying across the berries. The general no consensus feeding the downtown coming. I'm obviously acutely aware it's feeding and not having experienced it before. What actually happens when that happens having seen it before? How should one be preparing? And I should be thinking about it as a managed to stay so we always know that there's a downturn coming. We never know when it's going to be so we try not to spend too much time thinking about something something we can't control and we know it's around the corner and I think there's two things that we've thought about on we've done as investors both in the downturn of two thousand one to two two thousand five then again during the global financial crisis is how in control of Your Business because in a downturn you have to be much more efficient including capital officials show. Can you get a company to a point where you're eliminating financing risk in a downside case that can be a company of stage can be a cedar series. There is a company where you're able to take the burned down to a point. You have more time to figure out. PRODUCT MARKET FIT or go to market strategy could be a growth stage company which is still burning a lot of capital apple for wants to normalize that burn to make sure capital lasts until everybody gets profitability and by eliminating finance risk committing to a certain extent financing risk. Durable to have much more control on the time you have if you think about early stage investing as trying to create as much optionality as possible to figure out exactly what's what's GonNa create a big business. The key element of increasing the value of that option is not so by limiting financing risk and therefore increasing the length of your future increase the easy said thereby eliminating financing risk is. I think we've seen a lot of first-time funds invested funds very quickly within the first eighteen months and they're going to have a lot of companies coming back for refinancing at the same time. My question being. How important do you think is temporal Daiva station within the portfolio as south as a manager? You mentioned the last couple couple of your guests. I think it's very important. We always look at it on the classic model. We invest over three years. And because of that you're able to get a multiple microeconomic cycle. Oh you don't know until five years later was had a good time or a bad time to invest. You Wanna be able to capture as broad a ban as possible because you wanNA focus yourself on. Finding finding the best companies not choosing Marquardt so being able to invest over a longer period of time is very important and frankly hopefully have the benefit of being able to raise a a large enough time that gives you that window for diversification. Obviously the timing that we mentioned that does affect the pricing within the market. I do want to ask you to seminal show. You mentioned you listen to this show which I'm thrilled to hate at. But he said that maintaining price discipline is the hardest challenge. He faces today. How do you think about your own price discipline and how do you set your price sensitivity? We've you've come back and look at this and I we've been around for almost a dozen years and we're incredibly data driven and we've gone back and looked at false positives and false negatives decisions we've made over the years and we've come to see is that if we're wrong by twenty or thirty percent on price and achievement series company. It doesn't matter that much if we're off by fifty percent on it does matter and one hundred percent price matters more and the pricing in some people talk about. The price doesn't matter as long as you're in the best deals because we will all. Oh come out. If you know it's the best deal you put as much as possible but oftentimes you know to later. And where are we seeing in. A portfolio construction and fund management perspective is that you're able to increase your shots on goal so if you pay twice as much for a company you're definitely going to be able to invest in half as many companies and therefore have happened happen many chances to invest in a great company which could return the Fox and tons of short song bill at the time when the reserve on occasion really. That's just a serious opportunity cost of DOLLAS. Listen you're not really even retaining ownership in the company that you'll reserve into. When do you think about kind of peeling off on the reserves? And how do you think about that. Bus is another check in the cool part so as we think about just in our core funding we have a growth fund as well that's able to continue to support our companies as they grow our core fund for Early Stage Fund. And we think about it as we want to continue to invest in the winters and frankly even at the series A. Series B. level. You're not a hundred percent sure. Those are winners sweet. Have a good sense of the team. Being able to execute having the market opened up to you and sometimes you're able to have a really good sense of market go to market show you WANNA put as many eighty dollars behind that as possible and one of the other things we've figured out although you WANNA reserve some for downside protection those dollars aren't really as valuable will as opposed to making sure that your true winners you're able to put dollars behind it kind of goes back to. You can only lose one hundred percent of your money. But you're winners could drive ten times arms plus that of returns so she should look at it as opportunity costs are you should look at his opportunity costs on the winners instead of looking at it as downside protection action the loose because with the changing times of see changes an investor in as an investing mindset. How Museum Yourself? Changing investors lost two decades right so I think he is a early investor in my twenties. I thought I could help across every element of the company and you go to the board meeting you sit with the marketing folks juice over the finance folks and opine on details almost trying to be too into the details of the business especially after becoming an operator and gaining more entrepreneurs empathy arise. Director's job is much different. You know your job is to although no the deep bells and be able to swoop in really drill down on the things which don't seem to be working more to make sense to you your job as a partner the founding team in the end the CEO is to be able to provide that perspective effective across the portfolio across maybe macro trends. You're seeing where things that don't make sense to you in the bins and often times when you're trying to drill down there too detailed a level you might even take the board off track or might be focused to see you so you have to maintain the white white altitude. It'd be able to ask the right question at the right time mm-hmm and like a lot of things you learn. I learned from experience and you know experienced comes from making a lot of bad decisions so I I've erred on both sides of that but over time it's a skill which I think a lot of Yogis can understand and learn better speaking of time. I'm pretty interesting. How do you think about time on a creation across the portfolio? Spend time with the win instead of the ones that are going to drive through tons. Is it spend time with sounds terrible. The losers why the reputation maybe bills how do you think about time allegation across portfolio. So we through in my partners and I think about on a biannual basis where you spending your time on boards that. How do you prioritize reports? And how do you prioritize the companies in the portfolio. Okay and that's not a purely quantitative exercise you might qualitative. We think that a company has tremendous upside. Although today you might only have a small number of dollars or they might. I'm not quite achieved product market or some quantitative evaluation job. So we think about how. How do you prioritize your board seats and that prioritization should drive your allocation Asian of time and we're big believers time being in most valuable resource? Not only in your job for your investors Entrepreneurial but even in light as you rolling becoming a better person curson every day so as we think about how we're going to allocate that time across the portfolio it's very individualized and it's really about not only being there and support your winners and probably less to support the losers but making sure that the entrepreneurs whose companies are not going to be very successful the euro would help them through the process process of exiting that company the process of getting to a good sale and I think it's a really hard thing I I haven't experienced as entrepreneur but when something you've poured your heart heart and soul into for a number of years you realize is not an end the way you might have thought of that acquires good entrepreneur empathy and maybe might not be the best return on financial investment. But it's the right thing to do is person to provide that entrepreneurs much help as they need themselves in the business into into the white cliffs absolutely in times of kind of getting them in the right place. I WanNa tell you mentioned specific moment in maybe the life cycle of a company that in terms of moments whether any inflation moments fee sitting on boards. That change the way you you think about what it takes to really be a great number. I've had the benefit of sitting with some good board members over time. I was on the border with John. Door you know I've been on board who'd Mitch Lasky from benchmark some really excellent people and excellent were members. And I think what I was able to learn from them is talk less so so you might have an opinion on a lot of things or you know maybe even if you're younger opinion emotions but you're diluting your own voice by talking so much or opining on so so much pick out and before the board meeting read the materials ahead of time be thoughtful of where you think you know the most important issues for the company are in your perspective perspective on those and patiently wait for time to ask the question Orlando Auto Perspective to really focus on those things instead of focusing the board and wasting time on things which aren't really going to be this religious elements that you can ask in terms of the bold environment southland that my partner Friday always tells me Harry on a board you have to create an environment of safety. How do you think about creating an environment of safety for the they can really come to the ball with an down sales numbers head of sales just last whatever the goodwill band thing that's happened how do you think about creating that atmosphere and environment to safety? I haven't heard that before. I think it's great. I would probably have more talked about in the past Fantasy or transparency. That you have some entrepreneurs who either don't want to deliver bad news or you don't WanNa let you down and they're not intentionally painting a rosier picture but they're trying to be at least at their core. Optimistic is almost all entrepreneurs are but when you you want to be able to do is provide a space where you authentically new share and share problems as entrepreneur that was probably not a culture in the ninety s or even ten years ago where a tremendous power distance between investors and entrepreneurs thing he kind of felt like you had to go and ask permission for capital or ask permission for everything and you were owning the problems in the bring. Those problems restructured way to your board. I think the best boards realized that you're all stakeholders in the company. You're all shareholders in the company. Any problem that exists in the company is everyone's problem so this is a shared problem and therefore you need come with a shared solution and I think ruin relationships hopefully before you even invest that the entrepreneur would have a great relationship with the entrepreneurship that you're able to see the authenticity their rebel to talk about. How important transparency is? How important is that that you know you're constantly we telling each other? The unborn is truth and that safe protected space which I in cribs putting well creates transparent environment and that's what the best boards have and end. Either the board members manage. He's able to say I made a mistake. I don't understand what you're saying. I don't know what to do. And that's where you really have conversations nations. Were you pushed the ball forward. But if you're hiding something where something's not working a person's not working out for the team doesn't know what to do. Sometimes Adams that that could faster a repeal of months or quarters and the principal mortar lender. I do want to discuss some of the Companies Donald on a bottle of an empty space there and I got a lot of them and you have a particular passion as do I for the consumer business space the scene like an influx in the series influx of dollars lost. Couple of years thing. We're out with COSIMA with that in mind. Stay recommend isn't the bubble that many suggests I don't Pintul. I think the guy would say enough. People are down on consumer. Now it's a good intend to be contrarian on consumer I think there's a lot of on both the consumer enterprise side me to companies or companies that are super segmenting the market and therefore you're never going to build a big company perfect execution because the market size is not big but if you look at next generation awake consumers are using thing you spend spend a lot of time looking at how it's going to impact consumers and how that's going to be able to change the way consumers interact with the web. There's a next group of companies coming coming that I think we'll be just as interesting the last group so you can. The infrastructure layer if they can ekho moskvy experience or actually the brand that. Sit on top of it both pizza so they think think about the logic underneath and ways for example that your phone might be able to provide data as well as previous recommendations. which would form where you're going to have dinner tonight by being able to use machine learning to our the Mickley suggest ideas for you whether you sat at a bar for two hours so therefore you're suggesting that you were GonNa pick you up to? There's a lot of logic underneath there. That's coming from multiple data sources about you as a person as well as any logic that might come off your phone but then it goes through the infrastructure shirow crystallization and there's even apps that are doing a better job of capturing that data in delivering your better. I agree on the Simon that but then the archer on the Brian Lehrer. I do have to wise. I really want you to get over actually to me. Those first customer acquisition costs fundamental lack of scalable in the foldable distribution Russian channels to me passages scaling way out of control way false than people saying am I right in saying this. How do you think about this lack of economically viable distribution channel camel? I think that's a real problem. You know there's two things that to certain extent. Duopoly of facebook and Google broke in that they were not only the biggest but also the fastest growing customer acquisition channels. And therefore you're you're getting perfect pricing. In those methodologies snapping patriots have had broken through that duopoly and therefore under some heterogeneous ways to fire customers. But not as many as you'd hope I think the way you'd have to differentiate on product base so if you're offering the same service through the same customer acquisition channels. There's no competitive advantage. But even as we look at consumer companies and we think about companies especially in the Healthcare Space Hublin row that have proprietary back and by being able to deliver a having a specialized supply chain both companies delivering pharmaceuticals pseudoculture medical devices. You're not competing with Rick and Harry's pharmacy by you have criteria back in infrastructure which was unable to deliver Proprietary Service. I therefore you don't have to compete with everybody on the front speaking kind of ways to avoid competing with everyone in other ways to actually own urine lines of distribution yourself. How important sophy you? I'm assessing the viability of especially kind of consumer Brando. Katina see I think it would be great. It's obviously important if you completely on that customer experience it's improbable especially when you're starting out the season series aid you could own that full stack of customer experience to whom he wanted to do. Is something a bit clever. Thinking back to Airbnb with Obama does having cereal at the Democratic convention the Republican convention years ago. There's are waves. That are non scalable as Paul Ramlet say that purely stages to get off the ground and then kind of light that fire that he's either viral as might have seen AIRBNB and a lot of the serve the network marketplace business models for a way to start that ball rolling without having to compete on the front end with facebook properties Google Google Properties the beginnings of customer acquisition absolutely loves the story in terms of the cereal of Abbey. I do WANNA touch on the second Sunday that I haven't is kind of exit environments. I and I absolutely see it's possible to get that fifty even one hundred million in revenue which is by no means a smoothie US incredible achievement but then my concern is you got for one point eight. Is I Ebay for the visa. Is NASA calls. Maybe just dozen more for the mobile. Am I seeing this Roy Moore and how do you think this I think if you have commodity supply supply chain in your son commodity product. You can get into the mode where overgrowth your trading like a legacy business as we are trading at one to two times revenue. Because you haven't been able to show that growth a lot of the companies. We invest in have both higher growth. Which obviously chose you have? I'm a slightly different or better product. And they don't have to compete with everybody else in the activity chain therefore you got a slightly higher multiple for example humble as proprietary back again they have a exclusive ability and sell five label contact lenses on the Internet in most countries and by being with do that you're not competing with Harriet. Bricks contact Mike Lynch company. You're not competing against all these other players in the market. But most of their markets they are the sole online private-label contact Lens Company and by being being able to have that kind of market leadership you're growing further and you have higher market share so therefore you know you're going to train a higher exit multiple but you know I I have seen that. I don't know where an interesting company to watch as this all plays out in the rumored. IPO Casper official. That's going to be a very landmark occasion for the space base itself in a real kind of signal. I want to touch him. One company that the back of your partner told me we have to discuss and you mentioned earlier and it's pinterest full equate fire. We're GONNA do a story time round so as I said before of your amazing volunteers. Oldham's had him justice a mustache. How did you in them? We'll see Ali story that race so early really story is that again. This was the trough of the global financial crisis beginning of two thousand nine where nominee people were interested in entrepreneurship and not not many investors. Were Interested in writing checks but I was a judge at the NYU business plan contest and Ben and all the original team along with Ben's in school friends brother who's now Benz brother-in-law who was going to Nyu so they cruden him to the team so they could get in front of some investors and through that process older. They lost the business plan contest. I was thrilled by both ride years. About how the mobile web is GONNA change the discovery process and just really impressed by how thoughtful bed was and how they've thought through product in the categories and even how they were going to build their business show despite I would say everybody. Wanting from the doors commute the public markets and especially the illiquid private markets we were excited to be the lead investor in the seed round for interest. I mean relations to that. I WANNA awesome speaking of pain. The best companies in one's portfolio often data most competitive not always but often in terms of kind of fighting to win them. What's been your biggest lessons on? What what it takes to Trudy win the best deals I would say? A couple of companies pinterest actually had an extension round. The wasn't even completely filled out. So you know there was around very early on pinterest where anybody could have invested. So I think the same thing at Uber in a number of other companies the companies that are hottest ten years later. oftentimes are not very clear clear at the earliest stages but there are a fair amount of companies that have great teams of the clear market and come out of the gates hot and they're just always fantastic companies and in a world where competition is only increasing. We probably have not seen the on a long time. Where at least not? At least there's not a couple other people looking at the deal at competing for the deal. So okay you know we win. Those deals has a little to do with me. I think being able to have that had a billion dollar exit having several billion dollar companies. I invested West than young kind of familiar with the path of how to get to that billion dollar accident. HELP FAST GROWING TECHNOLOGY COMPANIES SCALE FROM HUMAN CAPITAL Perspective from financial capital perspective. Speculate as well as for an operator perspective. But I think the key thing and that's actually have to be an old guy like me to have that experience but it's maybe someone new coming into venture. I think the thing I even use more than that would be denied having me tell the story but having my references tell the story and with every entrepreneur I mean I tell l. them a hundred percent reference along the companies. I've invested in feel free to call anybody. WHO's working any of those companies last anything and those people often for able go to tell the story of what it is like to work with regards to the first mark nine? Therefore they're able to do the heavy lifting for me and regardless of if you've been doing this for a long longtime or a short time once you're able to work with somebody help them impact your business you're able to use them as a reference and they could give an authentic version of what it's GonNa be. Why it has Harry on the board or Harry Ozone investor in there? I'm glad you said about references that right because I did spiezio founders. Before the show I spoke to four of them including tweeting. Yeah sorry I I still listen. They gave me one hundred percent incredible references on the NPS school that we have view is now we straight to nine people before your show. Ah Nine people responded and had a conversation. So that's the highest rate we've ever had so I mean clearly. Something is working very well but I do want to ask one from boy at Merlin. You awesome awesome. What was your biggest takeaway from sitting on the pinch passport? I think the biggest takeaway on pinterest board was way been structured scheduled. The board heard was that we got a massive amount of information way ahead of the board so we knew all the metrics all the operating functions all the numbers the financials ahead of the board and we actually had access to anybody in the management team so if we had a question about a number that might seem funny or an expectation impeaching. We might have had. That might not have met. We had the opportunity to ask that individually to whoever it may be and then he was able to follow up with a memo won the two pages of what he was thinking. CEO and CO founder. And now the four could help him through. The challenges she was facing. It was different over the ten years Scoring from a couple person company. A billion dollar revenue company but it was the same structure and format. So you never had to. No one was ever. Having a member of the management team read them a slide. You never had to go through anything you've already read through by yourself. You were constantly and they're also very short for me. You were constantly thinking looking in helping the company through its media shoes. That's I would say. The highest way aboard to function with the confident level has a Straw Shannon's takeaways. That incredible to see the Giannino is shrimp. But I do want to move into my favorite element. Raping The quickfire round is short. You hit me with your immediate on. Are you ready to rock and roll. I'm rock and roll okay. I need to read more. Have to accept your favorite book. And why I'm still gonNA stick with money ball. That was my favorite pok for a a long time. I just love that are really about something else in a obviously. It's a book about baseball. But it's really about thinking differently and I think the only way that you're able would it be better person better. Investor is is not follow the herd but be able to strike out on your own and think differently about the world was the best bold meeting format Allah's structure. What's the best? The best structure is aboard dinner the night before where people could we warm up to each other so you're not walking into a cold. The Room in the meeting not temperature wise in terms of everybody getting up to speed on the weather and traffic patterns all the other bullshit and then So you're you're already warm room and then having a three hour meeting which very little to no slides or walk through. But it's structured in what I call the three PS of people. And that's the most important Gordon thing going on at companies on almost any size of where your human capital is where you might have deficiencies product. And that's the point we might have a demo or product roadmap the map warrior will say. Here's where Today here's where it's going that's really the heart of your economic ancient and how good your product is and then performance you know. Therefore these people were producing producing this product and selling it and years or performance. And what are you seeing those elements or performance of matter and that is generally not walked too granular basis. Because everybody's already read. The document questions have already asked additional questions. You talked about it at dinner. You're able to walk through the three. ps that are essential to any company company. And you're able to dive deeply into the most strategic elements of the business question from Zakia row one of your entrepreneurs. How do you on the position of being the fuss cool for founders? I I think being honest a lot of people are hesitant to provide negative feedback to your founders and if something is wrong or something you disagree with being honest and so you disagree with that or maybe you haven't experiences that would lead you to believe if that was true and therefore Zach wanted to call and knock on wood that I hope this implies. uh-huh acts I call that. He knows he's going to get the truth. From an experienced person has his best interests in mind. What does he mess massage making process late night? Few Small Creek. I think you have individual Investment Process of first mark is individual conviction so myself for one of my partners really believes in an idea and then you build consensus surround I think it's your partnerships job to challenge and ask the hard questions which you may or may not ask yourself as you fall in love with an entrepreneur business but what are job is to protect each other from themselves by being able to pressure test the conviction you have for business and then once we make a decision through consensus senses. They were all universally supportive of that decision. That company those entrepreneurs g believing attribution adventure. I think actually matters overtime mm-hmm because there is a single person largely manages that company serves on the board of that and everything else but it's largely less important than any anyone's reputation in that Is is the most important thing it ever have boys new important now in your mind. New York's always been important. I think you know you're able to look at New York as the Center for Commerce in the world more fortune five hundred companies are based here center for many industries. I think as we started the business New York was not adventure. Leaner it's quickly become second-biggest venture market in the world. And I think there's a couple of things that industries are based to your customers or based here on most importantly talents based here yourself aside and I would say that most young people in the world would choose to live in New York compared to any other said. No I think I would be. I'm telling you I love New York. Couldn't say absolutely aligned moving next week I'm coming to live with your as much but now I do also pronouncement one. The biggest challenge for incredible. Who Funds can scaling today? Life uh small is generational transition. How do you think about generational transition? I hope this was a hint from partners but I think we we think about it is that we wanna be a collective partnership. I think all of us want to do this for another couple of decades. And we WANNA do this as long as we're good at it so we we manage the firm in general as a partnership and as a collective of hiring and firing investment decision helping each other out of whether they'd be tough times for an existing company open. You're struggling with decisions getting into company or even selling show. I think that over time any individual becomes less important as we go to collective culture. That helps US succeed now. I'm so sad that this is the last one. I'm so enjoyed this but I want to finish on that. You'll most recent publicly announced investment. Rake and why did you get excited. Say Ass so actually just having an investment vestment was announced yesterday a company called Crisp and into entrepreneurial team back before an RA trash in dogwood than to Were the founders of the company called L. Tap at I invested in the mobile space seed investor. They're invested in every round served on the board and that company was bought for several hundred million dollars couple years ago. Oh and it's the same team coming back looking at food and if you look at the food supply chain almost half food is wasted. Because of not having the technology in the system and not thinking through with the best way is to produce measure in distribute food I think from a global perspective and having an impact on on people is going to be one of the most important companies out there from value. Krisha could be important and it clearly has the matron behind it of sustainability consciousness business as we apply technology new problems. I'm absolutely gutted. The episodes over we will have to do much more to ask. But thank you so much for joining me. Stay and I've loved. I love having you on. Thanks for having me might have to come back then I have to say I do. Just love having such a fantastic guy and if you'd like to see more from him you can find him on twitter at Rick Heights likewise would be great to welcome behind the scenes here at the show. You can do that on Instagram at H. stubbings Nineteen ninety-six. However before we leave each day Ed? I'm sure you've heard about it. But my word. This is a product I love Carter Carter. simplifies how startups and investors manage acce- turn count tables and get valuations you call also dot com forward slash to`serve E. C. to get temps and off and more than eight hundred thousand employees and shareholders. He's called it's manage hundreds of billions of dollars of accuracy and Carter two now offers fund admin so you can see real time data in the call to platform with causes team of experienced funding accountants. Also in the background go. JAKARTA DOT COM forward slash choose zero visa to get ten percent off and speaking of companies that have taken all ecosystem by storm have to talk about brax the company which built the corporate card for startups. And who is the Faucet. Company me to reach Unicorn Stasis in History Bryce found is Henry Ken Pedro Bill Payments Business in Brazil but kept getting rejected for corporate card in the states so they built brax with no personal liability up to twenty times I called them and huge rewards. Like seven points on Uber and Lyft for excellent Brash travel to excellent SAS off lab. If you're a start up based in the US see if you qualify for Bryce call today outbreaks dot Com and get called way for life by entering the code. Harry during sign up and finding you have to check out rang. Science joins renaissance is the easiest way to grow organic traffic and get your content ranking Har- in Google that powered platform uses real time search data and Natural Language Processing Tau Pew Craft Content that is highly relevant to searcher intent and maps directly to what uses a searching for customers with loss of landing pages you can leverage ranks on SEO AB testing platform formed easily task which html changes caused an uplift in such traffic also as an added bonus that platform also allows markets SEO enhancements to websites without eating up precious. Just engineering resources rang. Signs by hundreds of companies to grow organic traffic from startups publicly traded companies including the bill zoom gold belly sweetness and Korea. COMA GUTU RANG SOHN'S DOT COM for slash chooser visa. For your first month free as always I cannot thank you enough. He was calm bringing a fantastic episode on Friday with Dome It fast.

partner Harry founding member Pinterest New York Carter Carter Google Rick AIRBNB Rick Heights US Rhode Brian Lehrer Brazil San Francisco Brax Company New York Times
20VC: Why The Best Entrepreneurs Are Cockroaches, What Everyone Underestimates About Customer Acquisition & What You Don't But Need To Know About Payback Periods with Josh Buckley, Founder & Chairman @ Mino Games

The Twenty Minute VC

34:27 min | 1 year ago

20VC: Why The Best Entrepreneurs Are Cockroaches, What Everyone Underestimates About Customer Acquisition & What You Don't But Need To Know About Payback Periods with Josh Buckley, Founder & Chairman @ Mino Games

"We are back and welcome to the twenty minute. VC with me. Harry stabbings on H.. stubbings nineteen ninety-six. TV's on instagram. But to our episode today and I have been a big fan boy of this individuals angel portfolio foliage for a very long time and then we met through twitter DM. Now I've interviewed a two thousand manages and this guest I believe is one of the top five. I've met truly special and also now now a very dear friend and so with that very site. It's welcomed Josh Buckley now. Josh manages a fifty million early stage fund and as an angel has built a portfolio that includes slice of clear. Bit where he's is. Also chairman. Rippling boom supersonic lattice embarked on many more incredible companies. Josh is also the founder and Shamet Mieno Games the Gaming Studio he scaled twenty million in annual revenue and raising forty million in funding for the company but before we dive into the show stay. I'm sure you've heard about it. But my word this product I love Carter Carter simplifies. That's how startups and investors manage acce- turn count tables and get valuations go to call two dot com forward slash. VC to get temps and off and more than eight hundred thousand does an employee shareholders. He's called to manage hundreds of billions of dollars and Carter now offers fund admin. So you can see real time data in the Carter Platform and what with causes his team of experienced funding accountants. Also in the background go to Carter dot com forward slash choose area. VC to get ten percent off and speaking of companies that have taken our ecosystem by storm. I have to talk about brax. The company which built a corporate card for startups. And who is the Faucet. Company to reach Unicorn. Stasis in history is found his Henry Ken. Pedro builds the payments business in Brazil resil- but kept getting rejected for Cooper caught in the states. So they built brax with no personal liability up to twenty times columnists and huge awards like seven points on Uba. Uh and lift for excellent Brash travel to excellent Saas software if you're a VC. By start up based in the US see if you qualify for today BREX DOT COM and get called fees. He's way for life by entering the code. Harry during sign up and finding you have to check out rang. Signs Signs is the easiest way to grow organic traffic and get your content ranking Har- in Google Google powered platform uses real time search data and Natural Language Processing Tau Pugh craft content. That is highly relevant to searcher intent and maps directly to what uses a searching four for customers with loss of landing pages you can leverage ranks on SEO AB testing platform to easily test which html changes caused an uplifting search traffic also as an added bonus that platform also allows markets to SEO enhancements to websites without eating up precious engineering resources rang signs by hundreds of companies to grow organic traffic from startups. What's up so publicly? Traded companies including the bill zoom gold belly sweetness and Korea Komma coaching ranks on dot com for slash chooser visa. For your first month Free Levi quite enough for me so now. I'm very excited to welcome the very dear friend. That is Josh Buckley. You have now arrived at your destination Josh my life. I've been soon for this one for such a long time. Thank you so much for joining me. Stay Josh thank you so much Harry pleasure as my time but I want to kick off today with a little bit about your say. Tell me how did you make the move from Canton. The U. K.. Love having another Brit on the show by the way to running a forty forty million run-rate gaming company being one of the leading angels in the US. How did that change in transition? Come about thanks again. Harrys on it to be on the show so I grew up in Kenton tonight as a kind of quiet shy geek growing up and around the age of ten or eleven on my computer and I started playing some video games games like Diablo and how tell what it became enthralled by the Games of the actual community and the eventual weld aspect of these games and I really wanted to be creator of one of these games. Not just the US implying. Yes I want to be the orchestrate the behind the scenes around the age of twelve. I actually told myself to code and I leant. PHP and I started doing different types of projects. So I started. Freelance is programming for all the people. When I was about one hundred dollars an hour the age of twelve these people do not know I was twelve years old which was a thing? They probably thought I was a thirty five year. Old contract contract programmer eventually started to my own games so BOSTON. At the age of fifteen I made a bunch wall which was escape chlorine of another game. I critique addicted to within about a year it grew really fast to about one hundred thousand uses. I was running a remote team of about all people. I had to learn a lot of hard lessons about management and running a big game in COPAYS it's going through high school at the same time so incredibly high pressure in stressful so author about twelve months of running this thing and it became a pretty significant business for a fifteen year old. I had people approach perch me to buy this thing with my hands and actually agreed one day to sell it to a company in Texas six figures at the time and the funny thing was. My parents didn't even know I had started this game so one evening I had to go downstairs to my parents and get them to sign the contract selling my game so downstairs and was about eleven. PM At night my doctor Eh. Joshua he's still up. You have a maths exam in the morning so I just silently handed him. This contract is a paper it was too much to explain. They will kind of in shock when he saw this big number and they gave me a big hug and grossly very proud and let me all the time I wanted to go on the computer off to that. Basically I use the money for two things. I didn't traveling a lot so I started going to the US the conferences. I went to Asia and started meeting all these amazing people and then I started angel investing in friends so I made a lot of friends through online forums. IFC channels who are always. He's interesting impressive. People who just love to create just like me and I started just cutting them small checks I made maybe a half a dozen ten angel investments. A lot of them locked but one not two of them started to really do well instance. I was the best investor in a company daily daily. Use of the website where you could take of yourself. Every day go accepted into Y combinator in two thousand thousand nine. When I was I think maybe sixteen and basically starting to rapidly grows raised? A series from Sequoia capital amend touch the lives of millions of equal booth showed me was how a small tiny idea that my friend John had could turn into something big that raises millions of dollars touches the lives of millions and just makes a real dent in the world so that raised my level of ambition. Four hundred next and opened me up to this network of people in Silicon Valley and outside of the town was used to is people that just thought ten times bigger Actually had the capability of getting there. So when I turned eighteen I really didn't want to go the traditional route of going to college and guessing a normal job which I think was genuine or expected. At the time I went straight to combinator I think around the time I was one of the youngest people to get in. I was seventeen eighteen and I met with Graham and because I'd already kind of interacted through through some might investing like Jane Abuse that go into it goes except since the program when I was eighteen moved to Silicon Valley to be specific and honestly change my life. I mean it was this magical place with all these stars. Will these amazing companies built on it. Just rewired my brain in a way. That was much more optimistic more ambitious really hungry to learn like in my white combination I just looked to my left and my rights and everyone was so small and it just made me hungry to get better every day and that became a focus from Barron really rewired how I was during combinator. We had a plan to basically launch games. We launched this game which was basically like the iphone and it was thrilling ride. We and went through right combination around. We won the hot stops batch we raise at the time which was a high valuation which rose on eight million dollars cap very different. Today we became one of Andriessen. Horowitz specified investments. We lost the game and it became a top fifty grossing APP in the US asked for fifteen million downloads was not you know not door. It's incredibly exciting. Time Leap Leap Day where we have men are games which is driving in hyper growth. Abba game I again. Touching millions of people's lives and coming amazing business. I mean I absolutely love listening. Extortion also rarely. Do I feel really shit about my age but not always I really right. Well thank you again for me. I didn't know it was quite young but I wanNA stall on something that we've chatted about before josh and it was. It was pretty striking when you said it's me because he said to me for mood can experiences you've had so all all with Minna. The Best Orange creches they do whatever it takes. So I'd love to hear about many you apostol experiences. Even by the best entrepreneurs cockroaches reaches. Yeah absolutely so. I've had this analogy of cockroaches around a lot about entrepreneurship and and it definitely resonate with my experience with the fact that each cockroach I think the number one rule of success with at least I take with businesses unique to survive us to get an art story with men are has been almost almost the opposite of up until the right I think from the outside stories can always look just like you always succeeding but on the inside is kind of felt like the show. We had a lot of strong. Among the mental model. Leeann created something entertained millions and millions of people. One generates lots of revenue couple years into the business we actually we launched US get raised a couple million in funding and do we started hit a ceiling of how we scale all unit economic started in buds. On basically we realized that the game we launched is GonNa flop and we have to close and we also realized that we were bunning funding. Pretty Danfoss we needed to make some changes so we went through this area which culminates in times as the Trough Zoran. It was a really really hard time. We realized we had a couple of months of money. Left and up prospects looked pretty bleak. became pretty depressed in wasn't show at times like what to do. And I like took a deep breath and realize we have a choice. We can either return what fraction of the money. We've raised actually investors and kind of embarrassing and a bit of. Oh we can commit to seeing this through and let's take what we have and that's really trust trying everything we've got ultimately. We went to the ladder. I just really didn't see giving up as an option out of Never Foley crossed my mind so we realized that the cost of scaling up this game in San Francisco was prohibited. It was going to cost us way more than we had in the bank to launch something that we knew would be a new Scalable business so ultimately we've looked numbers in San Francisco and realized feasible to launch a new game in San Francisco. We didn't have the investor appetite to do a title. And I Luke Kerr gaming companies around the world and realized that that cost basis was so much lower to we ultimately decided to commit a studio somewhere else so it's a really hard decision and basically we looked around the world so we looked at South America lives throughout Europe. We ultimately decided on Montreal Basis for three primary reasons. The fast was that it had a huge base of talent from making video games with EA ubisoft et CETERA. Et Ten thousand engineers in the gaming industry cost of living was four or five times lower than San Francisco and then we had these amazing tax credits from the government so when we saw these facts like it was crazy for us to continue operating all studio from San Francisco and we ultimately approach not very quickly often said hey emotion we have have to close on San Francisco Studio and we're moving our lives to Montreal and we left behind there and we brought about about T.. Mobile two thirds of team. We decided to actually help find new jobs and I thought he was going to be hard. We didn't we didn't know anybody in Montreal. I don't even speak French. I still don't speak French. Does a incredibly hard invent a left friendships and relationships which were hard. That was kind of hard decision that had to make commit to saying that through. We realized that we had no choice. Can I jump in and stewardship point say you nine thousand nine hundred. Twenty and in many cases have the weight of the world in terms of responsibility people's careers on your shoulders. Did you ever think I'm only anyone possum them. Only a boy in some cases did you. How did you deal with that intense Prussia? Such young age advise me so luckily this happened in about twenty sixteen. When we made the move I was probably twenty five twenty four before that I mean it was it was? It was not an easy leading up so that I would say that really what helped me in so is hard times was having a great set of people around me and people who had gone through it before also people that I had a real relationships with just professional relationships and then the second thing was just taking one eh time realizing that like okay this is really fucking hot and this is going through. Hell is like it's kind of like the Winston Churchill. If you're going through hell just keep going. I I realize that you just can't stop you just kind of keeping the other. No I totally get you in terms of Zach. Choose keep going. I want to say it because that was the challenging times times and now kind of coming out through it and on the other side the businesses. Doing very well and my question to you is in the plentiful funding environment. That now we Karni in. Why did you raise as big when it was clear that things were starting? Change was walking while yeah. That's a great question sir. At the time it was not always clear that it was doing well when we launched off as game it was around the time that Zinger actually went through the late. Twenty eleven and a essentially didn't do so. Well the stock started amish. An investor sentiment around enjoy the round dos atop and around mock. It was pretty cold and bleak I think the investor interest depends potter market. How fast it's growing now? We just didn't have that kind of interest you know. We spoke to hundreds of investors and just realized that we weren't going to attract that kind of interest so ultimately we decided okay. We're going to have to get to break outgrowth without raising huge amounts of external capital and then when we have a game actually works. We have to just skip a few rounds of financing. And that's essentially the we took we had to be scrappy had to be relentlessly lenten loosely resourcefulness program says and get to a stage. Where essentially the business breakout growth? And a couple months ago. We did that. Sweet validates his new game. The a union economics were incredibly favorable to us and we decided to bring on about thirty million dollars in debt to allow us to scale to the next stage of the business. Now we're operating in a much more site slightly less efficient way of growing where we are in many people every week and just being more aggressive on every farmer because we realize Ostrovsky tastes to markets in just getting things done as quickly he is also absolutely love. Listening to Pretty Atypical Journey. Really taken with one on one question before we move onto the nasal being customer acquisition favorites. You have a very interesting taxi. the founder and the Angel Hap and I have built Gaglione show and he said the single biggest challenge that investors face. Today is essentially the oversupply of capsule. I'm interested given both the. US similar painlessly. How do you think about w was split capital and would you agree with? Bill is the extent of the challenge. Today's yeah absolutely so I would agree with bill. I think it's a really great time to be an entrepreneur fundraising today by us. A hard time to be invested and I also think that many new found us today today only know the funding environment like this is almost like being oil rich kid born into a rich family but sometimes it can really help to go through the struggle while troubling actually You take your payroll etcetera. I think it teaches social level of discipline that can really help and hone in fact they need to nail your business. I also think that capital only saw a few few of your problem the way I view which is this just fuel and unique to be driving in the right direction. Bill Koch Get us. I think when cycle changes we may find that a lot of companies are actually. I cope with their pants down and they may not have the actual formula or unique business. That will like A. Can I ask how does on. Then you advise your angel. Investments so far in terms captain the fish in the sea in terms of resource allocation may be how much they raised designed change ordered vice. You may be given to them today. Yeah I think I advise my companies to my investments to basically be highly aware of the environment and cycle it. In and the fact that tomorrow's fundraisers and the promise Sir if you're taking in a tract which is aggressive on the funding funding side which can often be very ballard. Needs to be aware that you need to invest as tomorrow and you need a business engine actually supports strachey totally agreed in terms of the business. Engine I mean one. One element is causing any business. Engine stay there is customer acquisition costs in particular and I it is something that I'm super passionate about and I know we've chatted about it before and you said to me before that people underestimate customer acquisition call. What in your mind Josh? People may be underestimating with regards to cash. And how changes over time. Yeah absolutely I just look at the data. We spend tens of millions a year on marketing. And do they one thing that we've seen ourselves and other companies and investors underestimate is. How CAC Saturate actuates or as an example some of my hundred thousand or a few million dollars in ads and think they know the catfish business and base their internal projections off of this arbitrage play? However however this two four cents which I rec- people talking as much about the fastest just how quickly your tech Saturates in your internal market relatives? Are we call it entirely golden cohorts like the users. All the customers you buy today are going to be the cheapest you I have a by. I then the algorithms pine networks stock for the second cheapest that she is so every x million dollars of your spend you may be buying on these networks. You'll catch me. Double the second force. A play is essentially the market wide. CPM's compounded the nothing we've seen as about forty eighty percent a year and that's just because of a number of doctors around the algorithms of new competitors coming into the market. I mean you'll competing against insurance companies when you're buying across facebook Google cetera totally different business goals to average performance. Marketing spent the way we view which is the cheapest marketing you can do in marketing today and always today on this notable secrets to catch. And that's why we think as a whole cottage industry around because trying to find the answers but unfortunately that's just hard truths around spending in these networks. Can I ask. I tweeted the other day. Really frustrates me. How appreciate investors will off sports your car once you? LTV expect predictable reliable data driven responses. Since by a lot of pushback from the saying that I shouldn't be frustrated by now she. It's very helpful in terms of determining mentality the founder. Would you agree with the push by that or would you say archie placing a focus on track as a metric. Precede in variety see days is to Ali. How do you think about that when investing I think it really depends on the business business and also the stage and also the catcher of the business? In general I would agree with you. Both the nature around panel TV is thought to the stage. I think until you've started to Mullen San of scale between both attack and LTV metrics. You really don't know the numbers and you could be off by a couple of magnitude. Franklin every number it can be completely skewed at a small scale so I think is probably in the investors like I think it helps to actually know how the entrepreneurs thinking heavily caveat those numbers with assuming they so are angry. The I have one super interesting gasoline recently and then they said successful marketing is being the in the way that you sprinkle a lot of in terms of the bats being channels and the noobs of wait for one to kind of rocket ships to speak one of the channels mass movements. And then you double down in that. Would you agree with that analogy. And then I guess my question is how do you think channel multi-currency and how quick you shift between Charles absolutely so. I think that's absolutely approach. We take with marketing when you need to really have if a large part of your strategy with grosses paid marketing channel divest. He is a key point. I think you really don't want to be concentrated in a single channel and that's one one thing I look at what I'm investing in. Companies have eight marketing business was concentrated Nazi ridiculous question. But it's fifty percent. Concentrated is seventy wo- what would concentrate through concern you. Yeah absolutely so. I see a lot of businesses where about half that spend is in facebook marketing and maybe another half is through Google. That's pretty heavily concentrated two now. The problem with that is that there's never been a single update in digital advertising. Made buying cheaper the appetizing algorithms on these major platforms like facebook. And Google getting hyper proficient at every update. Just makes more expensive so you know over the eight years I've been buying is just become eight years more expensive. I think is really important too fragile beds because on a huge amount of risk being tied to having your business growth being tied to this one platform to own so today we're buying across different platforms. I think is incredibly. That'll be important. Spread your bets as such can think back over you angel portfolio. NFL AIDS name-wise an inch. So not if not awesome love to hear about it but when anything back over kind of analyzing the view positive basements most impressed you with one of them. Is Eric case where you can. I remember this deal and back tax incredible the LTV's only co host. Who's what sorry exciting? Which one stands out to your mind did not perspective? Yeah absolutely I would say the first thing I would really care about that excites me up businesses that don't actually have after rely on Kayak and that's obviously the holy grail if you have something viral or spreads itself Oh spreads by word of mouth as always key daily. You'll pay that. Vision is just supplement divert has that when you can still create an incredible business without icon name names specifically some Mike Direct to consumer business has amazing Abe periods. They making that completely probably Kroft won that US purchase and as a result they're able to grow so incredibly off because they can recycle captain like nobody's paid less than a month. They're able to recycle a small amount. Absolutely quickey grow into a bigger business can jump on the payback period. Because you said to me before the payback period double doubles every five million spend would want let me through that. Why don't you think that is and has been the case with you in particular? This has been a data point now we sin across and a couple of different games. We think applies. It'd be not apples to apples across different markets. The reason why I carry it grows as you spend more essentially that your exhausting the most relevant people customs field business it caused these algorithms in targeting on these networks is so efficient the fast five million dollars you spend are going to be x amount of people without most likely to buy off to that facebook Google cetera again to find like next wrung down SARS whereas all these people are less likely to click on your ads. They're less likely to but payback courage comes down such and benchmarks we've hovering around roughly doubling Ling. Every five minutes end and of course many ways we was Count Dracula such as increasing via Tools available looking at the data adjusting testing creatives. So what you can do. But I think a good rule of thumb and I think it's really important ICAN mind. Do you want to touch on a couple of elements with the angel investing in takes. It's a super interesting thing in terms of convenience. And so I'd love to hear how does investing alongside operating how does that alter your grazing mentality or positively tiddly on negatively. When he thinks that absolutely I think band angel investor lost six or seven? Years has really helped me shift to high level fifty thousand expected around my construction business because I take a look at companies through the men so I actually look at my own company through the investor Lens House Zoo mouth and see the five year it also helps me you see how other companies operating often also raise my ambition levels when I hope so say a blake have hit the level. I'm Bishen he's taking towards business really makes me anything. Am I thinking big enough. oftentimes I'm not really inspiring to readjust that way. I think the challenge. I make sure I can manage my time. Effectively focus probably jude. Jud voice more founders to do it and if so what advice do you give them. In terms of making our first entering the industry as a founder of making that first energy and since the angel investing arena generally early. I would advise against doing so. I think it's great if you have opportunities to do so and if you have the capital when you have the deals in front of you I think it's absolutely worth doing what advise advise against splitting you know. Focus too much. I think running a company on his own is incredibly often. Do you really shouldn't be spending all of your energy on actually finding that product market fit in something the scale I think once you have the team place and the executive layer and everything ready then. I think you're able to spend more time looking at deals and opportunities. I I totally agree with you. In terms of the split time in terms of the takeaways from having this kind of Jewish roll have been some really big tangible takeaways in terms of the last five years building. The incredible For their you have some real takeaways from not investing experience. Yeah you early on. I pretty much just followed intuition with investing I think some investors specifically hey folks on such an thesis on Marcus Etcetera. I really just have followed my intuition with founders alien and just look the people that had a strong with their market and understood them inside out it put out learn a lot from to be honest. I've been incredibly surprised by how great my was also been early stage. Investing my alley deals of really compounded integrate results. It just really enjoyed it all the time. It is a very intuitive process with meeting with found us. I think there's a coleman notion that in the Vanni that's hot deals on the Hong deals translate into the best companies when you look at your for stay in terms of today's companies. They all pretty much them. In terms of your clothes and your dreams of the value of the world I mean blistering Tuscano Michio port for. I guess my question is have you seen a trend but the hottest companies translate into the best companies. Yes I remember we were talking about this and I definitely clean as we know today. The environment is incredibly hall for early stage companies and I was looking at my own but folio and actually found that many of my mic successful deals. Actually not Harry taught the seed stage. It was actually a struggle for them to raise that fuss rounds so some my successful outcomes and also look at companies like Abbie and be Uber. Etcetera they were so very hot in that early rounds really owned me was I want to be incredibly driven by. Not just the market I think greyhounds could navigate many markets so many opportunities it also teaches me too thing from an ignore. Lots of the heat around deals icing today. No I totally agree with you around the deal. Heat element that kind of advice that you give to other angels. I do want to discuss the topic of vice itself because when we China before about the prominence of vice today and it being given so widely you said a large chunk of advice you get is. He's been asked to put it bluntly starting them out. Why do you feel this? And how do your Senate vice gathering. Yeah absolutely look I think vices. Amazing and is enlarge Makes a lot of combating crate. We will I struggle with sometimes as received wisdom or advice alone is cleaning to contextual. It's like a sample size of one person's uh-huh personal experience of what didn't work for them and often his piece of John Advice shed this where I could have someone Bama Audrey the Opposite of bias of something that I've had through twitter or something else so oftentimes I'll just imbed someone's a bike to see. If that's true. I think key piece is really just a breakdown advice. Understand undestand does that person have their respective. Why why are they coming from this point of view an Anglo Cetera? But in general I think is important to basically take as much as you can originally bringing him with context and you've really have to understand the tree of knowledge on the all mighty they kind of lay over knowledge and onion which apply so. Make sure you don't just a slot in its advice. Without understanding all the surrounding context of us at their about the inversion of license absolutely love received printing paramount to completely invert the advice and then see the outcome and how how it translates in terms of like examples. Maybe but conventional wisdom evening. Maybe most exemplifies is in a very positive way than some of your learning from washing them. Maybe we go about this non-conventional strategy absolutely sir. I sit on the board with Alex. I clip it and I'd say he's probably the people I've seen most to have but convention around advice vice happily solicits a lot of advice and he has amazing advisers and investors around him he makes his own decisions happily from the ground up. Many of them would be considered unconventional. Some I'm Kelly whether it's a decisions around town. He hires is fundraising strategy. Or Company. Bonding events you know. They have amazing chess club. They take amazing. TRIPS together. Heels are really up to my company around profitability advised much more aggressive growth. In hindsight I think all of his decisions have been working extremely well. I mean it's amazing. Business tonight and keeps coaches on off which may founders with beacon may choose to more blind different advice. I'm really pleased about allison clear because I did speak to him before the show and he said you have to ask one question and I don't know the context here so maybe you can help me. But he asked all you games and fulfill the revenue made with him. Ah So maybe halo context minner games and how to between Alex Round which company would make the least revenue in lost year and the loser would have to an embarrassing bet which I probably repeat from shore and it was extremely motivating guys game launched last year. We didn't want our game and so we lost the bet but I would happily take Alex influence year. I'm pretty sure we can do some laps around Cleveland. US and allies is coming on the show very shortly so I'm going input to him but I d want to finish my favorite being quickfire rounds as you say she will statement. Then you hit me with your immediate thoughts. Are you ready dive in. Let's do it. So what's your favorite book. And why should we be. Reading is my favorite book. Is Charlie ALMANAC from Charlie Munger. It really drove for me. A love of learning I love of mental antle models have really taught me about the compounding nature of knowledge. Is The book that just got me reading a lot more love. It is one of my favorites too. I have to admit tell me. Biggest strength and biggest win thirty seconds on each the biggest strength is probably determination relentlessness. I think I think everyone would have moved to the code in Montreal to keep that business alive I think probably on the weakness side I think I probably have unattainable expectations of myself. And I think that can lead to pressure myself and those around me an extend. This probably unnecessary love to kind of tame those patients totally unfair of me. Because it's all scheduled but I'm intrigued when you have great milestones great achievements for you and for the team to take a step back doc in appreciate those attaining those milestones or do you kind of stuff. I think probably like many Francois was just one of the nice and then that happy. How do you think about appreciation element? I would really love to be the kind of person I aspire to be stops and smell the roses by by nature. I'm definitely more the latter where I'm always thinking about what. It had only had a patient where soon as I've met the goal was always onto the next one. I think is really important and we're trying to build a team to celebrate. Look these small wins. More more is definitely not my nature so much. How does success in games translate to other fields great question? I think success in games a lot about the fields I think games are one of the hardest types the business to create the impact of hundreds of thousands of new games launched every year and a lot of the consumer mechanics. Amec's Diet top of the store up. Consumer businesses was started successful Games. Maybe five or ten years ago. There's so many lessons I've taken away. Whether as much dicing economy is data science incentive design cetera on the Sony disciplines a unique Mazda succeeding games would translate well into the business. I'm really seeing so I remember. Actually Rahul from superhuman said the same Michelle says printing. I would love to Jose especially now with being in Montreal. What would you change about Silicon Valley? VC having now how `bout perspective. As well. Absolutely so. I still spend A. What am I time in San Francisco and Silicon Valley? And I think it's one of the most amazing place in the wall. It's a real. I don't see that changing one thing. I would really like to see change that I wish was does. Different was more diversity of thought when I'm in Silicon Valley feels like a very much echo chamber where people can think the same the same value the same things. I'd really like to see that mixed stop more and I think it would be a great thing for the Bali John no I totally agree with you. THEM INVESTOR UPDATES. I'm sure you've written them before you've also received them as angel what makes the best when format. What's the advice jet so I basically I think a regular cadence is really helpful so probably some of the best investor updates? I see a monkey. TATUM's they really kind of keep you on a rigid schedule. And they have the key numbers. They have the trends around those numbers and they have the goals they also have the highlights and lowlights around the business and really. That's it I think they keep a really strict into the point. I think having a regular schedule around it just keeps investors informed the business and you create that close communication. I totally agree with you but I do want to finish on my favorite one and probably the most exciting is the next five years fee. What's in the right? Bam Josh absolutely sir. Admiral which is looking to bring daily joy turn around a billion people a year. That's driving force going forward and I think it's going to take us a little while to get Abbott. What drives US and get sucked every day and for myself? I plan on continuing to do that and also are just working with amazing founders every day. Invest in Georgia as. I said I've wanted to do this. Absolute such a long time. I really has been such a pleasure to have a fellow Brit on the show. This is so exciting for me but thank you so much for joining me. Stay Jewish thank you so much has been great. I mean my what that was such a pleasure to Josh and as I said at the beginning he really is such special special early station. Investor and very excited see the Times. I had that with Josh and a new fund. You can find him on twitter at Josh Buckley. Likewise great see behind the scenes on the show. You can do that on Instagram H stubbings nine thousand nine hundred sixty two but before we leave each day. I'm sure you've heard about it. But my word. This is appropriate. I Love Carter Carter. simplifies how startups and investors is managed. Accuracy turn tables and GET VALUATIONS CARTER DOT COM for slash Tuesday or visa to get ten percent off and more than eight hundred thousand employees and shareholders holders manage hundreds of billions of dollars of accuracy and Carter now offers fund admin. So you can see real time. Data in the platform with causes team have experienced on accountants. Also in the background go to CAR DOT COM forward slash choosier visa to get ten percent off and speaking of companies that have taken our ecosystem by storm. I have to talk about Brax Company which built the cool called for startups. And who is the Faucet Company to reach Unicorn Stasis in history bryce founders. Henry can pedro builds the payments business in Brazil but kept getting rejected active for corporate card in the states. They built brax with no personal liability up to twenty times. I called limits and huge yours. Seven points on Uber and lift for acts on Brash Travel and two excellent Saas off lab if you're a a startup based in the US see if you qualify for a brass called today breath dot com and get called. Fees waived for life by entering entering the codes. Harry during sign up and finding you have to check out rang signs rhinestones is the easiest way to grow organic traffic and get your content ranking har- in Google their AI powered platform platform uses real time search data and natural language processing to help you craft content that is highly relevant to search your intent and maps directly to what uses a searching for for customers with loss of landing pages you can leverage ranks on SEO AB testing platform to easily task which aged changes caused an uplift in search traffic also as an added bonus that platform also allows marketers to me SEO enhancements to websites without eating up precious engineering resources Lang Sciences used by hundreds of companies to grow organic traffic from startups publicly traded companies including the license bill zoom gold belly sweetness and career coma could you rang. SAN'S DOT com forward slash two zero. VC Your first month free as always. I appreciate the report and I call them as bringing a fantastic episode with the founder. Jason Brown tally on Friday.

US Josh Buckley founder San Francisco Harry facebook twitter Google Carter Carter Montreal Silicon Valley Henry Ken Saas Levi Brazil Pedro John Advice
20VC: Sarah Kunst on Why There Is Plenty Of Investor Money Still Available, The Megan Markle Effect and How It Impacts Hiring and Talent & Whether GP Commits Prevent Diversity and Inclusion

The Twenty Minute VC

37:38 min | 7 months ago

20VC: Sarah Kunst on Why There Is Plenty Of Investor Money Still Available, The Megan Markle Effect and How It Impacts Hiring and Talent & Whether GP Commits Prevent Diversity and Inclusion

"Welcome back to the NBC with me. How stubbings love feedback for the show and questions on gas that you'd like to hear from you can do that on instagram and age stubbings. Nineteen ninety-six to the episode's Day and I'm thrilled to welcome. Sarah comes to the whole seats day. This really was such a fun. One St and Sarah is the founder and managing director Keo capital with a portfolio including the likes of style seat global and play joy to name a few private venture. Sarah served as a senior adviser at bumble why she focused on corporate. Vc bumble fund and on the Board of Michigan State University Foundation in Balance. If that wasn't enough Sarah's also contributing editor Mary Clan Magazine and Utah successor has been named a future innovation by vanity fat on a talk woman. Nbc By Wall Street Journal before we move into the show stay. I'm sure you've heard about it. But my what I just love this product Carter Carter simplifies how startups and investors manage accuracy camp tables and get away to Carter Dot com for slash Tuesday. Vc Get ten percent off. More than eight hundred thousand employees and shelled is set to manage hundreds of billions of dollars and Carter now offers fund administration. So you can see real time. Data in the Carter Platform and work with causes team experienced accountants into yards. You call two dot com for slash choosier visa to get ten percent off and speaking of teams. That did you know that will be one point. Four million job openings to develop his in two thousand twenty and that's why my friends at terminal come in is a remote teams engine for false. Growing companies can continue with global talent to deliver the product building powerhouse. Your Business needs to grow. They provide services and infrastructure and complete solution that allows businesses to build and scale remote engineering teams from the ground up without sacrificing experience or quasi spaces to community on the ground support. They take the guesswork out of remote. So that you can thrive but don't take my word for it just high-growth businesses like Gusto. Choi Nina names all charting terminal with remote teams and you can find out more stay at. Www terminal dot ir. That's Terminal Dot. Iro But enough for me and I'm thrilled to hand. David Saragan managing director at Cleo capital. You have now arrived at your destination. Sarah is Santi. Pleasures initiates allies that? I've heard so many great things from Katie Stam. Tim from visa call in from the team at call sets. Thank you so much for joining me. Stay Sarah of course thank you for having me not to but I want to dive in. Stay with me on east. Tell me how did you make your way into what I call the wonderful world of venture and come to find clear? So I'm from Michigan. I went to Michigan State in college and I ended up working for apple as a campus rap and that was sort of my first glimpse into Silicon Valley and my first opportunity to start to meet people who would go on to work in the tech world at places like facebook until after college took a totally different direction. Moved to New York was working in marketing at Chanel. Two thousand eight so much like now. I was sitting at my desk one day. And said you know who's Bernie made off and then the entire world fell apart and so within a year a little. After a little bit of a year there I ended up in technology because no big company was hiring but startups work. And so I worked for the winkle vaas twins actually at an early media startup that Cameron Winkle Voss was a founder of and so got to know a lot of people in the New York Tech World got to hear about crypto incredibly early which I bought a little bit not enough. I held it for a little while. Not nearly long enough. But it was a super interesting kind of introduction into that world and then I ended up working for a Y combinator back start up in Silicon Valley and with that we sunset it in when that happens I was talking to investors. Zine what we do in a very nice investor told me look the company's definitely run out of money definitely GonNa shut down but you seem smart. Do you want a job in venture and I said yes. I want a job period so I ended up at more davidow ventures and was there and it was a super interesting experience. They were massive sand hill. Road Fund one point seven billion under management but like a lot of the firms in the two thousand seventeen thousand eight vintage. They'd had a really hard time coming through the financial crisis in so they ended up drastically. Kind of reformulating relaunched his wildcat and there is quite the team shakeup when that happened so I ended up leaving starting a startup in so started pro day which was a fitness in sports company and ran that for almost three years. The LA dodgers or investors. Really Amazing interesting experience but ultimately that ran out of money and as I was winding down I was also a scout for sequoia was a limited partner at Michigan State University. Where I went to Undergrad in so it was just seeing all these different interesting opportunities and I was thinking I would go back into a bigger venture fund but than a really got a Lotta conviction around this idea that I was seeing all these scout. Investors across a bunch of different funds in the vast vast vast majority were men and so decided to launch cleo capital two things one to do my direct investing than to to put a bunch of amazing female founders in the businesses Scout Investors. I mean Michael Wooden incredible array of perspectives and background. That you have that as studying Chanel joining installing our founding your own start out being Michigan I mean my what it really is a unique and diverse background so that even more interested in diving and really kind of stalemate messing landscape stake money found is quite clear. Extremely painful of the complete. Dc retrenchment so to speak in VC's on twitter activity. Open the business. So I'd love to start with Wendy. Believes that still may be plenty of money available from investors and is open for business really true the thing that keep in mind right. There's a book that I love although it's not exactly the most exciting reading but it's incredibly incredibly informative called venture deals. And if you haven't read that book and you want to kind of understand what's going on in a venture capitalist minded a great book to read because it really just talks about the economic so the thing to keep in mind is that venture capital funds are sort of a complete blackbox of capital to our investors. We have to work probably harder than any other asset class to raise our money but once we raise our investors. Can't come to us like they could do a hedge fund to the public markets and say. Hey I'm down thirty percent in my other stuff I gotta take money out right. They give us the money and we have the money. We do capital calls. It's incredibly incredibly rare. Even during the two thousand eight financial crisis that investors refused to allocate to their venture funds unless they have actually gone bankrupt themselves right. So your investors your. Vc's every VC in. It's very different for investors investing after unbalanced sheet but for VC's. They're one of the only places right now. That isn't going to see a huge reduction in their amount of money. They will struggle likely wall struggle likely in the coming year. Chill raise more money but the money they have now in the way to think about it. As investors usually invest for at least three years after they close a fund so twenty eighteen vintage fund is investing through twenty twenty one and eight hundred Nineteen Fund of which there were many very large ones. Right is going to invest through twenty twenty two which you know pandemics last a year right and pandemics or something. Everybody thinks that Bill Gates is a psychic. No Bill Gates says a really good job of reading because he has lots and lots and lots of free time because that is wet. Money buys you. So there's a pandemic roughly every hundred years. It lasts for about a year to a year and a half as it spread through countries the globe and eventually everybody gets heard immunity right and so there is an end to this. And there's a relatively finite end to this this being you know. Sorta sheltering in place in social distancing in all of that and when that is over these two thousand eighteen twenty nineteen and twenty twenty funds places like general catalyst or still raising multibillion dollar funds. They're announcing now they're still going to be investing out for the next one to three years depending on when they started and so obviously their biggest shift now is one everybody. I think emotionally is a little bit. Shell shocked in. It's a little bit bizarre to go on like business as usual rights so they're certainly the emotional component but financially. Vc's are still getting paid V. C. lost their paycheck over this right and they still have money in the bank to invest. They will likely be more cognizant of wanting to put more money into their own winners but certainly not twenty twenty fund has enough winners to say. We're only going to put money into those that we've already deployed to. They have a lot of dry powder lasts and so we still have money. The question is how do you get them to unlock it for you? Became on here and you mentioned kind of the two thousand and eight Air Saini when Utah stolen that when you look at them error fund manages. It's quite rightly as you said to me before it's kind of the best generation in terms of vintages question is. Do you think that will be the case with the car in downtown as is compatible returns and macro of two thousand eight two thousand nine in terms of the best before we been she's being invested in the downtown? Potentially being becoming is so look. If I had a crystal ball I would buy lotto tickets and I would I would not be the CIO Angel Investor. Right to the short answer is who knows the longer answer right if you WANNA extrapolate from history is that it is incredibly hard to make a lot of money when things are expensive right so if you buy a house I live in California and California is living example of this right. If you go and buy a house in advancing neighborhood like Pacific Heights now in San Francisco you're GonNa be paying multimillion dollars right if you bought that same house in the Eighties. Even adjusted for inflation. You probably paid twenty five percents of price right and so when you sell it to two houses right next to each other could be on sale at the same time in five years. One person inherently is GonNa make a lot more money than the other one even if this L. prices are similar and it similar when it comes to investing so if you invested in a Y combinator company Post Demo Day. Three demo days ago had been about a year and a half ago and you were paying fifteen million valuation on a company that just launched an only had a tiny bit of revenue and now six months from now you can invest in a similar company may be at an eight million dollar cap evaluation fast forward five ten years when they exit. Who's GonNa make more money to companies that could have very similar? Trajectories have very similar exits into one and it was cheaper and then it goes on through the economic cycles to do just as well as the other one. That's real money in your pocket in so some of it is just sort of money ball. It's the simplest thing in investing right. Buy Low sell high and because of market forces for the past couple years. It's been by high in hope you can sell higher and I think that's GonNa Change at least a little bit right now. Absolutely ingredient comes of pricing changes because I completely share your perspective in terms of price discipline but it is quite rare stage. I often hear managers say on the show. Harry if it's a five billion dollar company eight or fifteen pre it really matter and it doesn't matter you will still make a lot of money but he will make disproportionately different amounts of money. How price discipline would you say that you are investing? I invest in precede right so I- invest in like friends and family when you're in an accelerator. I'm happy to be the first check in if you have a bunch of other funds. I might still invest but it's less likely that that would be a fit for me so I go incredibly early and the pricing questions are a lot different really early because I have one goal for you. It's a single you have for you. Which is to build a wildly successful business. But there's two different things that I have my eye on for founders. Which is one. I don't want them to be priced so high that other investors aren't going to want to invest and. I don't want them to be priced so low that they sell so much of the company that they're not going to be excited to keep building it two years from now and so what that tends to look like when you think about it assume a company has will call it to sounders so day one of the company. They have fifty fifty split of that equity if they raise a half a million dollars at a two million valuation. They've given away twenty five percent of the company before they've done any and then six months ten months a year later they're going to have to raise another five hundred thousand or a million at like a five or seven valuation and great now another relatively large chunk of the company's gone so by the time they're post series a you're going to be pretty diluted right in that's the only have two co founders. So You keep doing that math. Assuming they have three or four and all of the sudden three years in when they're in that sort of row of sorrow that every startup goes through. When you're like I don't know how I got here. I don't know how I'm going to get out a heat. Everything I wish meteoroid hit me so I don't have to keep running the stupid company right. Everybody has that and then you look on paper. You go wait. We could sell for a billion dollars and sure. I'm going to be rich. But like if you don't own a lot of your company right if you get diluted down in down in downright superior series. Amu soon you're going to have to raise B Through d before you can accept and you're GonNa just diluting yourself Yourself diluting yourself. Dot Com pounding right. It's like when you're little and your parents were trying to explain compounding interest to you to like convince you to keep your money in the bank. It's the same thing but in reverse that lack of equity upfront is not going to bother you on day one. Because you're just excited you gotTA check. It's likely to be a reason when you're thinking about do. I WANNA raise a series being keep slogging for another six years three years in or do I want to take quick Akwa Higher and like we were talking about earlier right. You sell the Google and you have free salad for life and they probably pay for your Peleton right so those questions are I want to incentivize founders for and so to me anything much lower than five million in the US for even very early round. It's a little bit hard for me to understand get excited about unless it's an accelerator which is a very different way of giving away equity. Because I worry that you're not gonNA have enough equity and runway long-term to be incentivized to run your company and then anything much above ten. I start to get concerned right if you tell me. Hey Sarah I'm raising at a twelve million. Valuation and benchmark is in and a best friend is part of the facebook family or Google family or whatever and they're putting money in his well. Okay great I may or may not invest. It might feel a little bit rich for my taste but I believe that you have a pass if you sort of come out of nowhere and you haven't raised any money yet. I think a slightly high valuation is something that someone else should give you. Not something you should decide for yourself if that makes sense because if somebody else sets the price then you know they're willing to pay it likely others are as well if you set the price you have no idea if that price is going to be attractive to buyer right into an investor and you might find out too late that everybody loves you deal but they feel like it's too expensive so they pass in which investors past. They tend not to come back. Rounded totally agree with you are always the biggest challenges found a set the price way way way. Too High Bona bumps of relationships Friday difficult comeback from that. We readjusted valuations totally aligned that you mentioned the trump story there and kind of racing to the pandemic worrying today instead you wealth with companies nego reputation without come sleep chatted about kind of really telling the strengthen. Taranto someone in these challenging times so I guess how do you think peak assessment character assessment in a crisis like this? Yeah I mean much has been made. Right of sequoias infamous memos in Toys Fund. Call the bottom. Because eventually you'll be right. And you'll be rumored for that funds. Not Maybe the right word but it's always nice to be known as the person who called the bottom and I certainly think that's true that when you're sort of high cotton it's easy to say. Life is perfect then then is Warren Buffett says type does out you see who swimming naked but I do think that for a lot of founders showing their resilience. Their integrity their grit. That's been something that's always happened. And so the narrative of like. Oh It's been so easy for everyone to raise for years now and now it's GonNa get hard. No I mean it's been easy for certain segments to raise right but when women are still getting like ten percent of all invested capital or some in the lower number than that. It's hard to have an argument that like Oh women. It's been so easy. Now you're GONNA have to buckle down and see what it's like on the other side so to me and I don't just invest in women invested in in everyone but for me I think a lot of the founders that I respect the most that I'm the closest with that I support the most. They've bench showing that because they've banned living through incredibly challenging times and now when the going gets tough the tough skit going right and these are people who've been going and I think bill early with sub tweeted about now we're gonNA see who's a tourist con Valley and I think he aimed at the seas although God knows. I'm the last person on earth qualified to interpret. Bill early tweets by the interesting thing is I had that same thought about founders right. I think a lot of founders. I think we're about the same age thirty three. I think when we were coming out of college and stuff there wasn't in certainly in college there wasn't as nearly as much of a sort. Of course you have to go start a company and then at some point in like maybe two thousand eleven through two thousand fourteen starting to companies sort of just became another box to check. I think for a certain kind of person right you go to your fancy Undergrad school. You get into your consulting or banking jobs for two years. You go do an internship at big tech startup December. Before you start your day you go do your Mba your second year. You start hacking on an idea. You place your win in some NBA. Hack Assan with your idea. You go raised a seed round you get into whatever accelerator and then that's just the thing you do right. And if that company doesn't work whatever you just go joint venture fund or you go work at a big Tech Company in so entrepreneurship used to be perceived as a massive risk and now I think for a certain segment of people they see it as just another box you chat and if you happen to be really good at it great but it's just something you have to do the same way that you have to do your two year rotation through Goldman Urbane and I think that a lot of those people are GonNa be the ones who turn out to be tourist and that's no K. Like being a founder is a little bit of a masochistic career path. And so if you're not a masochist. This is a great time to go do a job that like feels a thousand times better on a day by day basis. I love that in terms of the masochistic career path. I do agree with you. If we can sit on the phone and see you have some incredible foulness in your. We've emptied malady from style seat. Who's one of my favorites amazing? I do WANNA lawsuit because it's just such an uncertain time right now and I'm sure many of you found since the pandemic really came into play. I guess my question is was the number one piece of advice that you found yourself most commonly giving today in those conversations so. I think there's two different categories right now. There are categories where you're just sort of screwed and that's terrible and it doesn't mean you're going to go out of business but you're just sort of screwed and companies in that category if you're selling high heels in party dresses right now. I don't know who wants to buy those right. Because nobody's dressing up right now right if you're selling things that are inherently to be used outside of the home right if you sell travel neck pillows. No-one's traveling right. So those companies. I think the thing they have to do right now is just live to survive another day. They almost have to hibernate because a lot of them. If there's not an obvious pivot then they're just going to have to wait it out and have faith that if they can wait it out. The economy will recover in people will WANNA buy with their celine again. Maybe even in an accelerated pace to make up for lost time. But there's a whole other category of companies that they have something people want right now right. I'm sure you saw the articles about the toilet. Paper companies in the ballet companies like a month ago and there was a run on toilet paper that all these companies all a sudden had crazy sales right one of the day companies was doing a five hundred thousand dollars a day in sales for a while during that right. That's insane and I'm not in any of those companies but I'm in companies. You Me Right. Which is a baby food delivery company? The last thing like you and I can be like I guess all else fails. I'll live off of wine in Doritos right babies. I've heard I don't have any. Don't Wanna live off wine in Doritos. So if you have a baby you have to make sure your baby has food right. You can't just assume you'll stop by the store and grab something so companies like that companies that are selling towels sheets and obviously face mask and all of these companies that are selling things that we need right now like look at Zoom right and that's obviously a public company but there's private market analog to zoom and slack and social media tools and Socializing distance tools things. So you can hang out with people remotely in feel closer to them. Dating APPs or seen surges gaming companies are seen surges. So those companies. It's insane like this is a literally one hundred year situation so it's very unlikely you will ever be building startup during a global pandemic again and so there's a bunch to learn on the fly but that being said if you are in a company that isn't insertive default hibernation mode and there's nothing you can do about it. This is an amazing time. Distortive run out there and run at the problem and make some real headway and investors know right like if zooms daily users went from ten million to two hundred million right which is a twenty x increase. I don't expect you to be at two hundred million daily active users if you are a seed stage startup but if you are a startup in a similar space and your daily active users were flat during this period candidly. I'M NOT GONNA blame the market. I'm probably GonNa think that you miss something when it comes to understanding Gross Com. -solutely agreed you all now. My favorite positive having the Doritos and the wind great minds think alike us? Obviously we've been having dinner parties together on Zoom. That's the two hundred US. You mentioned that kind of the the ones that accelerate massively and those that maybe you need to go into hibernation. How it is you. Think Year Round Reserve allocation change in these times. Does it stay the same? So where's small fund and so for me? Reserve allocation isn't a huge part of the model that being said. I've been spending a lot of time with family offices particularly overseas via zoom of course and there is dry powder that's very interested in series B. Series C. S. P. B. is an even buying secondary's there are a little bit later and so if you are a fund manager and you're thinking the people I normally go to for SPD's our executives you know at places like Uber and Lyft and now they're in a world of hurt of their own and their stock prices down and they don't know if they're going to have a job long term it doesn't mean that there's no money anywhere and if you have a solid company that's call it hosts series be probably and they're growing and they have some interesting numbers. I think that deal still get done. They might be a little bit slow were and they might be a little bit less expensive. But I think that deal still get done and I think if you think of it as looking at your money in the Bank Insane. How long do we have? And then assuming that in two years for startups that we will be relatively close to back to normal twenty four months from now if you have twelve months of runway in the bank and that means that if you go out and raise another twelve months of runway writer even six months of runway then stretch that twelve months to eat team. You'RE GONNA be pretty solid so all of a sudden the idea of don't WanNa raise it a flat valuation or a little bit down or whatever. You're not raising your blockbusters series De that. Makes you a Unicorn and get you on the front page of Texas? You're taking just enough money to sort of survive to live another day and so if you have to do a bridge and you go out and find family offices or find venture funds. They're looking for a little bit of a value opportunity. You'RE GONNA be able to make it. It's a lot harder when you're really early because there's not the obvious traction. I think that's when you have to get creative in terms of showing a lot of growth showing a lot of sales showing a lot of customer loyalty and we really have to hustle for that still but I mean that's sort of the precede game anyway. Which is you're just consistently hustling and if everybody's doing really well then you consistently hustle because you're good metrics aren't as good as somebody who's great metrics and when everybody's doing poorly you have to hustle because it's just harder and so. I don't do a lot of reserve investing personally but I do see from what I'm hearing in the market the conversations. I'm having they're still money. And there's a lot of money that had been sitting on the sidelines for the last six twelve eighteen months. Maybe still investing a little bit here or there. But their general feeling was the markets overheated. And now they're seeing a right sizing of that and they're excited to deploy their capital. I totally agree with you. Incomes of the rightsizing readjustments. It's been the one of the most aggressive warfare talents. We've seen over the last years with the influx of capital in the well funded startups in terms of late this changing in this environment. How do you expect the talent and hiring? Mock it to change in this crisis. Advise on that you with when it comes to adding those as stall plans to that team I mean the way to think about it and this is sort of the Meghan markle approach so Megan. Markle is wonderful but before she started marrying a man that from your accent. I think you probably are familiar with namely hasten to -actly exactly she meant to date you there is a mix up but before that right like I love suits and it was great. And she's like gorgeous in smart interesting and whatever but like a relatively small name actress right certainly not like a massive massive blockbuster beyond say not j. not whatever right but there is a shot right so on paper. If you'd said Gus who prints areas GONNA marry you would have had to ask a lot of people to get somebody to say. I Bet a TV actress. Who's based in Toronto Right? That was not an anybody's obvious list by she was able to get in front of him and was able to close it right. And so the Meghan Markle lean right now in hiring is who's the person that not even you never thought you could get but you would say oh I would love to work with XYZ. But obviously how would I even get in front of them? They must have so many other options. I can't imagine like I just know that we would connect you know. I've seen so many things about them. I think they seem amazing. I'm not seeing Meghan markle's at any of these things about airy so Megan markle. Please don't sue me but it's one of those things where on paper it makes sense. But you figure you're never gonNA get a chance to do that because that's just not all the world works well if there's one thing we've learned over the past month is that clearly. None of us have any idea how the world works anymore. And so whatever sort of high in the sky higher you've always dreamed about shoot your shot right slide into somebody's DMZ on twitter or unlinked or instagram and. Send them a really concise. Hey I'm Sarah. I'm the managing director of capital. Were in early Stage Venture Capital Fund. And I'm just so impressed with you at followed your career for years. I love when you you know and mention some obscure interview. They did five years ago. Not There twenty minute. Vc that everyone here's right but something super random let them know that you really care and follow them. Let them know how they've shaped your thinking and then say look. You have any free time. I would love to get to know you a bit better because I think that you are somebody that I would love to find a way to work with and I think especially right now. There's a lot of people who are just like great. I'll do a twenty minute call. Why not great. I hate my job great. I just got laid off great. I've secretly hated my business partner for ten years. And I think this is a good sign from the universe. It's time to call it right. Like shoot your shot. Why not absolutely love that in terms of taking that opportunity and we do have a very knowledgeable. I'm science say I don't think Meghan Markle is powered on its. I think you'll safe on that one but I love that in terms of the Meghan Markle. Effects. I would love to move into my favorite which is around so say statements and you give me your immediate thoughts. Are you ready Steve it so I promise that I would read more books this year? Even in the pandemic is going terribly so cleaning on a great side. But what's your favorite can wally. My favorite book is a book called attached. Which is about attachment styles and it totally explains everything about every human you have to interact with like work personal life. Family friends everything. You have to read attached on Gordon Endorsement. What's the biggest challenge of your role with Keough today? Well it's a little bit hard to run a venture fund from your couch. It is indeed far enough challenge. What would you like to change about the world event should say? I'd like to see more diversity fund managers and the reason for that is symbolic drive's better returns and I'm incredibly greedy person and I want to make more money. I'm totally to you. I think absolutely not just a Rudo wine that we agree on my questions. Years slightly off scheduled. Gp commands a fundamentally Non Inclusive Venture Fund. Size is in the say or two or three standard. We'll actually be two or three million dollars. Does and I found that investors who don't understand that are probably not going to invest in your fund might be a good fit later down the road right. Like 'cause there's only really two buckets of investors who don't understand that the either understand it but that's just the way. Structurally they have to proceed. And that's probably like an endowment or Pension Fund that has incredibly strict rules because they are managing real humans retirement accounts right and those ones are not going to be a fit for. You really really really early on and then the other bucket are just people who don't fundamentally understand that everyone in the world is not rich and from my experience raising a fund. Neither of those buckets are going to be a great use of your time. So what I do right when I hear somebody say that is I just know. They're not a fit for me that we instead almost every LP that I've ever talked to. I'm incredibly front about that and like look. I'm super broke. And they're like okay. That makes sense Mike. Okay great and no one's ever push me out in L. P. commit right. I think there's a middle ground which is a little bit different than the situation. I'm in which is when you have some money but you want to use it for other things right so if you have a few million dollars in the bank which is a ton of money but at the same time in the venture tech world. That's not a ton of money but you also have elderly parents who need your support because they're going to be a nursing home and you have kids who have to go to school and you have a house with the mortgage. Could you live in an expensive area like that? I think is probably where that commit. Conversation gets a little bit trickier. But there's so many problems in venture I haven't found for micro fund managers that not having a ton of your own capital to put into. Your Fund is a huge problem. I think you do have to assume that as soon as you start making money from your fund meaning like as soon as there's exit that there's going to be an assumption that like over your first three funds whenever you start to get money back. You're going to sort of you know load more into your GP commit to maybe smooth that over. I think if you've taken a decent amount of money off the table and you're still unwilling to put a lot of money into your fund than it is fair to question if you really believe in your fund as much as people think you will but I used to joke when people would ask about that in like you're happy you want to look at my tax returns like if you want to see something really sad. I am happy to tax returns. And then you're going to be like giving me twenty bucks for my Uber. Home like asking me for GP Keb. I totally understand. That's interesting. Tell me that's what people want the right like they want. They want to understand you. They want authenticity. They WANNA feel like they can trust you right. Fund managers like you and I are taking so much more risk like we are relatively higher people right. We could go and have a job inside of like a Google facebook or whatever or make a quarter million half a million a year whatever that would be a lot less risk right and so when I see I have one friend who's an LPN my finding he's lovely but he invested fund. He pulled money from his trust and put it into my fun. He also runs a fun so when people talk to me about my GP committed. Like I've forsaking any sort of normal life to run a fund and run all over the world and try to raise money and to like operate on the shoestring budget. You really think that my very lovely friend who just moves money from a trust into his son for his G. P. commit do you think he's more committed than I am and everybody including him as like we'll know obviously you're the one who's putting a lot more skin in the game like yeah. Thanks and so people get that I just think that you're a fund manager thinking about starting to fund and you're listening to this you just to be authentic and have that conversation what. I think doesn't work if you try to stonewall investors and tell them my LP commit is to be determined like you're counting your millions like scrooge mcduck and can't decide exactly how much to allocate. No just tell them I have no money. Here's why and here's what I'm going to do about it in the fund and any LP. Who's a good fit for you okay? Yeah I totally agree. All a matter of proportion and say totally align. What did you know now? You wish you'd known the start of your career in venture don't waste time on anyone. It's like Angel Investing Right like I love coffee checks. I teach sometimes a little seminar called. You Wanna Angel Invest for primarily for women. But I'll do it sometimes. It's to help people understand how to get into angel. Investing and the thing I tell people is you wanna be an easy check in easy. Doesn't mean you're stupid doesn't mean that you write checks for everybody but it means that you're not trying to take ten meetings to write a twenty five thousand dollar check if I think there's something similar in the L. P. World particularly for micro fund managers. There is very little track record to judge however the person got on your radar in the first place. You probably immediately did a little bit of digging on them and you should diligence them. You should talk to them. You should make sure that they seem smart and that they seem like they're doing or understand how to do what they say they're gonNA do. So when it comes to fundraise if you're raising a microphone right and some giving you a relatively small check and they are not your anchor. And they can't quite wrap their head around it and they just want meeting after meeting after meeting if the meetings are interesting if they're inviting you on their yacht and you like yachts if they are and cool and interesting introducing other people great but if they're just sort of doing your hundred dollar round trip uber from San Francisco down to Menlo Park every two months and you sit there with them for an hour and they moved their meeting five times and then you talk about the same things and then they tell you to come back two months later at some point even though it's a big name person and it seems like a big check. You have to value your time and prioritize them in so I think the biggest thing I think this is true for fund managers and for founders for anybody. Raising money is just because somebody has money on. The other end of the transaction doesn't mean that your time is valuable and they're the only person in the world you should be focusing on your minutes and I totally agree with you in terms of the value of your own time when I think actually few people do it. Religiously enough so coakley aligned. Tommy final one publicly announced investment view. And why did you say yes and get so excited planet forward so my entrepreneur in residence since also WANNA may scouts. Julia Collins is an amazing entrepreneur and she was a CO founder at zoom the Pizza Delivery Company and will the robotics company. But I was mainly excited about the pizza and she left there about a year and a half ago because she really really really wanted to build something around. Climate so planet forward is an amazing regenerative agriculture company. They haven't announced a lot of what they're doing so I won't talk about it too much. But in getting to know her over the years and her vision in her understanding of what it'll take to build a profitable category defining company. That can fundamentally just make it so much easier as an individual human in the world. Who's not perfect? And WHO's not mother Theresa to be responsible about our consumption in help. The climate particularly with regenerative agriculture is just one of the most inspiring things. I've ever seen in the way that she's thinking about building. A tech platform rounded consumer facing products. Just her grasp of the space was just so incredible that I knew I had to invest and it was exciting because after I invested. I told her I was like I don't know what you're doing next but I meant she's like do you want to know what it is was like. No I'm in and so I was the first check in and then after me. People like precursor invested people like Emerson collective riches. The Rain Powell jobs family office and it's exciting to stay yacht like is saw that in this person and I knew exactly what she's capable of and welcome. Lorraine Powell jobs. I'm glad you see that to sound super exciting for sure. I totally understand in terms not in terms of the quality of not necessary listener. Incredible as I said this I'd have so many good things before the show about. You has been so much fun. Say thank you so much for joining me. Stay of course. Thank you absolutely love that discussion with Sarah. And if you'd like to see more from Sarah you can find her on twitter at Sarah comes to likewise be great. Welcome you behind the scenes he can do so on Instagram at age. Stubbings nineteen ninety-six with bees. I always loved see bad but before we leave today. I'm sure you've heard about it. But my word I just love this product. Carter Carter simplifies. How stops investors manage accuracy cam tables and get money you go to Carter Dot com slash? Two zero ten percent off more than eight hundred thousand employees and shelled is used to manage hundreds of billions of dollars in accuracy and call to now offers fund administration. So you can see real time. Data in the call platform and work with causes team experienced accountants simply Yogyakarta Dot Com forward slash two zero visa to get ten percent off and speaking of teams. That did you know that will be one point. Four million job openings develop as two thousand and twenty and that's one of my friends at terminal come in term remote teams engine for false. Growing companies can continue with global talent to deliver the product building. Powerhouse Your Business needs to grow. They provide services and infrastructure complete solution that allows businesses to build and scale viramontes engineering teams from the ground up with our sacrifice experience or quality from workspaces to community. To own the ground support they take the guesswork out of remote. So that you can thrive but don't take my word for it just high high-growth Businesses. Gusto chime in and hymns all trusting Tom with remote teams and you can find out more at W. W. Dot Terminal I on that's Terminal Dot Iro as always I sir appreciate your spoiled. Nikon weights bringing phenomenal set of episodes next week.

founder Sarah I Meghan Markle fund manager instagram facebook Carter Carter Vc Michigan Bill Gates Chanel Carter Dot Cleo capital sequoia Google Silicon Valley managing director Nbc Utah
20VC: How Roam Research Analyse Product Design, Team-Building, The Future of Collaboration Tools & Applying Tesla Go-To-Market To Roam with Conor White-Sullivan, Founder & CEO @ Roam Research

The Twenty Minute VC

28:55 min | 7 months ago

20VC: How Roam Research Analyse Product Design, Team-Building, The Future of Collaboration Tools & Applying Tesla Go-To-Market To Roam with Conor White-Sullivan, Founder & CEO @ Roam Research

"Welcome back to the twenty minute. Vc and founders Friday with me Harry stabbings and I'm so excited for this absolute y what we use this tool for all of our research here at the twenty minute. Vc It's what allows us to have the linkage and the cross references between one guest and what they say about a specific topic and how we cross reference that to another question. We use another episode. That has probably given away in terms of the company. So I'm so thrilled to welcome Corner White Sullivan Co founder and CEO. Rome re such the tool taking over our industry providing a seamless note taking tool for network as I said. I really do just love the tool founding Rome. They founded to pry businesses and also to half posters a CO founder of post labs when he reported directly to Ariana Huffington and Huffpost CTO. I do say he signed to Jack Morris Genius some amazing questions gestures today. I really do appreciate that. Jeff Mahita is on me to thank you but before we move into the show stay. I'm sure you've heard about it. But my what I just love this product Carter Carter simplifies how startups new Masters Manage Accuracy Cam tables and get goes you call two dot com forward slash Tuesday. Vc Get ten percent off. More than eight hundred thousand employees Anna shareholders used to manage hundreds of billions of dollars receipt and Carter now office fund administration. So you can see real time data in the call to platform and work with Causes Team Experienced Fund accountants into your call Dot Com forward slash two Zero v C to get ten percent off and speaking of teams. That did you know that will be one point. Four million job openings for developers in two thousand twenty and that's why my friends at terminal come in. Tom Is remote teams engine. For false growing companies can continue with global talent to deliver the product building powerhouse. You'll business needs to grow. They provide services and infrastructure in a complete solution that allows businesses to build and scale. Barrymore's engineering teams from the ground up with Allison crise experience or quality from what spaces to community to own. The ground supports they take the guesswork out of remote. So that you can thrive but don't take my word for it. Just high-growth businesses like Gusto chime earning and hymns all trusting Tom with that remote teams and you can find out more ww terminal. Don't Iro that's terminal. Don't but that's enough for me. I'm very very excited. Time David Kona White Sullivan Co founder and CEO. At Rome Research Long. You have now arrived at your destination corner. What can I say? Huge very many people donate so we actually Shasha vase painting in preparation for every show using room behind the scenes so it was a little bit of a farm. Boy Upstate for me but thank you so much for joining me stay coma. That's so amazing. To pleasure to be here I would love to kick off saying say slightly unusual first question but I suppose little buddy before the show and they told me about a high school wrestling career but you have to learn your towards me about having to learn to win and how that impacted your mindset. Yeah that's Hilarious so pretty late. So I just wasn't particularly physically strong when I was younger when I was in high school and at actually done freshman football but had been too slow and too poorly coordinated to do anything except on the line. I remember the coach of the football team. Saying the best thing you can do that will get you into. The best shape is wrestling so join the wrestling team and then had one particular upperclassmen who was just convinced. I was going to quit and yeah I was pretty dedicated to proving them wrong and sort of push myself past any limits. I'd seen but it took me two and a half years before I won my first match. There is a lot of psychological doubt. Serve not expecting to win like going in and sort of getting out and making sure I didn't get pinned but eventually learned one move. People didn't usually see practice that quite a lot. Yeah and also put in the work and cut weight and happened to get stronger over time and so my junior year end up doing quite well. It's an incredible story of kind of persistent so before we dive into the founding story for Roy I guess how do you think about Bannon? How do you advise founders? On the balance between released sticking your vision and mission plus is acknowledging when something could have been wrestling is not giving up. I mean I think the thing is. You can have the long-term vision but then you also need to tactically be looking at. How can you see yourself really? Clearly how can you see where the places where the strategy you have right now? You actually don't expect the continuing on. This strategy is going to succeed so get figuring out how to maintain faith in yourself and maintain faith in your ability to eventually solve the problems. That are not solvable or tractable today but figure out how to make progress. And it's interesting because I am sort of a believer in the I guess. The power of positive thinking like luck favors the prepared minds. And if you're going into situations believing that you will find an answer to them just more prepared to see the opportunities that are there so there's one thing in terms of psychologically priming yourself to find opportunities but you also have to be able to change strategy and not be like too committed to a particular path so sort of like strategic focus and like long-term vision and Grit but then tactically being able to see that there might be many different paths. You could go to reach that end goal. It's a tough balancing. Though that suddenly rings true that we need to get myself Mike and eat beforehand and they both mentioned the definitely thinking about but it was well healing around for a long time internally. Founding women fee with him in some ways rooms a continuation of the thing that I got into tech which was trying to solve problems. Collective intelligence and how groups of people can really happened the wisdom of the whole group the different expertise that individuals might have and then figure out how to make sense of a complex world and take action as a whole so my first company. I started when I was nineteen. Was trying to do this for local governments so we were trying to crowdsource policy proposals and show that the registered voters town thought. That one idea or another idea was good and for many reasons. That didn't really work. We did end up getting acquired by L. Which gave me some more space to keep thinking about the problem but yeah in a sense. This is a continuation of the problem that I've been working on for over a decade now. Did you go to university? I did I went to Umass amherst. I didn't end up graduating with a diploma for a number of reasons but that was actually where I got my exposure to entrepreneurship and our first company. One business plan competitions there which is where the first ten grand for seed funding for my first company came from lost four weeks law school. So do not worry to your boss. Fossil theus Donnas than me. I do you want to all because when we China before you said about taking a knows I guess what is it about an and stage. You really wanted chief from the kind of the product paradigm with right. Yes so the first half of it is about thing. He met her thoughts right. The way we think about it is as a tool for thinking. And if you can't get compound interest on your thoughts if you can't build up a thought structure over time and continuing to go back and revisit and revise it you're limited to just what you can hold in your head so one of the challenges. I ran into when I was an undergraduate writing my thesis which was also about the software product that I was building was just turn to put together this grand unified theory those point from a ton of different domains and I just couldn't hold the problem in my head. I WanNa make so you can collaborate effectively with your past and future self so as you read things as you have conversations and you write those thoughts down because the active clearly articulating. What you're thinking. It's hard to write things down in your own words that something wrong is not gonna be able to offer you right when you read a book. Most Times people read a book. They forget ninety nine percent of the book a year later. But if you actually write down the core insights in your own words just that action alone is going to crystallize the thought test your understanding of it and you remember later but if you can come across those thoughts and build on them later if you can say this ideas related to five other problems that I'm interested in that same unit of thought is reusable. You can get compound interest thoughts and you can solve more complicated problems in the future with less effort but the long term goal right is being able to do that. Also with other people being to build off of other people's belief architecture or other people's evidence that they found for certain things or what material was affected for helping them learn that. You're trying to learn. Do you know what's amazing about Rome. Though is the fact that this next question is kind of inspired through exactly what you said that which is going to the correlation of ideas from the past to the present because Anita Rome today as a product e said specifically to me Roma simple but not easy and so I used Roman. I thought I do you build challenge into a prolapse. Straightaway came up my upset with Rahu from Sushi. She sat about using challenge into products. And so my question to you is how do you think about that from the product perspective and how steep do you want to make the learning curve without being too steep so our role model for this? Excel Excel got seven hundred fifty million users and the phrase we use his low-floor high ceiling so a product should have a really really really easy entry. Point and most of the people were using excel. They're it for like shopping lists or they want a tool for making tables and visually laying out the things I think about but then on the flip side you have. Businesses have been run for thirty years on a single Excel spreadsheet. And so in. Some ways is actually better programming environment. It's a purely functional reactive interactive environment and in some ways. It's better than a lot of the things we have in. Java script or other programming paradigms so we want something like that where it's really easy to get started and as they gain proficiency in the tool and as they start to take on more challenging problems. They're able to learn the tool and extend it and use. It really is sort of a programming language for personal. Productivity and for personal development steep learning curve is a good thing because if the mountain's steep than you takes actually a relatively short amount of time to get to the top of it it takes a lot more effort but you can get pretty far pretty fast and so that's kind of what we want is that there can be slow. Pass up the mountain and there can also be like path up the mountain where someone can gain a lot of power quickly ask. Did you think about the team install of on boarding to really make not St Paul Stop Mountain a little bit more gradual handhold away to maximum efficiency is the product Yep when we first launched. We did require every person who came in to go through on boarding call but we weren't charging from the first day because actually we wanted to be able to lean on end user innovation and see how people were using it and so we wanted something a little bit different than the way superhuman runs things and I still do every Tuesday basically from ten. Am to seven PM on user calls all do a lot of thirty minute on boardings. At some point we will scale customer success team and do those more at scale because currently I'm back for the next month so we have done that but also because Rome is what you make it like. It can be very simple tool that you're just using doing daily journaling and some meeting notes in your occasionally using some of these side directional links you were discussing earlier. How when you have an argument with somebody. You're able to pull up points that had come up in previous conversations from someone else right. That's definitely power user. Use Case where you're actually mapping out different arguments in different discussions that you're having or using it as fiscal personal. Crn or using it for project planning of those kinds of things. It's been really great that we've got such an active community that is making so many like sometimes full courses on teachable or full courses even just on youtube showing people different ways of using the tool some of which we hadn't even thought of so. You don't have to do the superhuman on boarding. It is usually better when people are coming through. A friend friend is giving them their own sort of opinionated approached around but there's many ways to do things room so we don't want to force people into just one single way of thinking east about the incredible kind of community around in absolutely. I've seen some of these videos and it's a sign of like true customer and product. I love my question as you have to give full credit to Jeff Moore Junior. Excuse his question is how do you build a soft blackout? Like you have done with rob. I mean you talk to friends of mine who've seen me working on this for five six eight years in the in the ideas base. A long time ago I was silent like there was a time where I was living in a van and working at the top of the mountain but went to India for a couple of years and I didn't have quite the same engagement with a community of people that were like minded but I guess it was about a year ago. I decided to start using twitter the way that I use Rome. So it as like threads of threads like using my old thoughts creating amazed that people could go explore and the way I started was just being pretty angry about the state of existing tools. And like why evernote is a terrible second brain and just not a good place for organizing your ideas or building up a repository of research and also talking about other systems like there's a system that we're a big fan of called Dental Casson. Unfortunately there was a book that came out recently. Called how to take smart notes on how to implement this even just with pen and paper and so we started talking a lot about those. I started talking a lot about those and getting into some fights on twitter with people who thought ever know was the greatest thing. And that's really you just needed a discipline process and you could make every network for me. That's fundamentally wrong. Evernote NOT BUILT THE WAY. Your brain is and a lot of the friction that you have with. Reusing thoughts in evernote is incidental complexity because they followed this files and folder metaphor from an archaic time. And so yeah. I've been pretty loud and opinionated about the principles that I stand by and what I think is true and just sort of put out a frequency and some people with frequency and some people don't and I think just holding to that integrity attracts people who noticed that like. Oh yeah like. I've had the same frustration. I've felt the same pain before and I want to be part of this different future so I think that's part of it is just being pretty articulated about what we think is true and some people love it and some people. Don't tell me I think he's like a mission statement and mission savings so the which kind of everyone agrees with you divide. Yeah there's something that's pretty amazing about having a nemesis and for a long time. My Nemesis has been Tiago Forte. Runs the evernote. I say he's trying to make every note great again and he's got some really good ideas about knowledge management but his committed to being tool agnostic and saying like. Oh Yeah all tools are the same but I think that when the tools introduced this unnecessary friction right like thinking. About what filed does this not need to be in or like what folder to I put that file and it doesn't allow for reusing the sort of fluid way that I think you need to thinking tool but yeah that fight has also just integrate thing for us in our founding moments now absolutely it. Hasn't it's always been standing see in terms of kind of the cult like alleman? Good a mock who is crucial. And when we try before you said we have the Tesla Gate market drive instance. What did you mean by this? How does that mean you think about kind of go to market moving forward? Yeah so does. Business Plan was build a sports car. Use that money to make a more affordable car. Use that money to make an even more car and for the many years that I was working in Rome it was a pretty unfunded idea. I had some great friends who were investors or new a ton of investors but. Everyone was like well. Isn't this just competing with evernote is in evernote? Sort of a dead Unicorn and so the way that we were able to run the company we were very very fortunate and also we made some decisions I looked into what would be the ideal early user base who are some people who are thinking a about thinking who are open to different kinds of habits and workflows that aren't supported by any existing tool. And who are going to be willing to learn those because the problems that are facing are so complex that they needed a better system than you'd better tool and so we actually got off the ground by getting customer funding from some folks in the effective altruism and particularly the AI safety community people who were thinking about a risk and I would say like the Broader Bay area rationalised community and so people who are really thinking about how they think. And how do they figure out what is true? And how do they process their emotions as well to deal with the biases that are inheritance from our ancestors and so our go to market was really a handful of these organizations that paid us sort of an enterprise license where we're working really closely with researchers and as long as we were building features that they wanted or that they would use keep getting the contract extended for another month and that lasted us for really the first two years of the company and a lot of build from something that was really quite complicated and it wasn't really intuitive wasn't really easy learned but these researchers had enough pain and saw enough potential that they wanted to keep using really early version of the Alpha and that got us to the place where we could actually launch and then from there. It's really different. I have a lot of respect for Ivan and Simon from Notion Alabama bunch who? It's gotta be really intuitive forever. User comes in. Let's play to the lowest common denominator to change your way of thinking to use notion and we take the opposite of approach so our strategy has been. Let's go to the people who are willing to learn to use a power tool and then many of them are writers. Investors or their founders. Ceos and so there are a lot of people who aspiration. -Ly want to think like those people and when they see that someone is having success and they're writing more they're feeling more on top of their game for running their company or for making their investment tease or like you. They're able to run about our podcast. They're able to ask questions they're able to pull up. Better insight all those things really helped drive the next we've users who often then have a bunch of people who look up to them and especially when you see people starting to produce more output. There have been people who've said the reason they didn't drop out of their master's thesis or like Rome allowed them to suddenly take and make it something that's paid because they're producing three times as much with the same amount of effort those sort of testimonials than drive the next option. So that's the way we look at. It is starting with something that is sort of like elite intellectual athletes but then make it accessible and make it something that other people can learn to grow into. Listen I adore room? I don't think anything would have kept me in legal degree. I have to admit but I do WANNA ask. You mentioned the product there and we really dealt in that in terms of the team building the provides when we spoke before said something really interesting and you said I high for great and also died is how do you think about you hiring philosophy. I guess how do you really stress so is to you in reality so I spent a really really long time founder dating for this company because I knew this worked my first company. We had a small exit that gave me some financial freedom to go live and work on this and not have to worry about a paycheck for many years. Which is Great? But this is the project that I want to be doing for the rest of my life and so I wanted to be really careful about who I brought onto the team. And who was somebody who I wanted to make that sort of like lifelong commitment to and actually was still in India at the time and I remember hearing about forty to choose a tuition free peer to Peer Coaching University. That was funded by billionaire in France. And I saw Paul Graham tweet about it saying you know. This isn't another coding bootcamp this another. Mit and their filter processes. There's like a two hour long online test that you take that it's basically just a logic puzzle sort of feels like an Iq test but it's also a test to see. Will You keep going all the way through the two hour time limit? Will you actually like keep doing this? Hard thing and dedicated focus for two hours. And once you get there you get invited for a month long application process. Which in the batch that I was in had basically seventy percent attrition rate. Because you're teaching yourself see. There's no teachers. There's just some youtube videos and a incredibly onerous machine grading system that will fail you for the whole day for you know a syntax error and so there's a lot of emotional pain that people go through as they're trying to teach himself a new programming language and also having this rough grading system and I'm on my co-founder there because he was the one who was up at four. Am in the lab and he was able to teach me a bunch of stuff and so he had the communication ability. He was like clearly amazing self directed learner and he dropped out of college as well because he wasn't impressed with the seniors in the engineering program. He was in. He didn't see like if spending four years makes me like them. I don't WanNa do that. And he went out to forty two because someone told him. It was the hardest thing they'd ever done. And that attracted him there and the fact that he was seeking out the hardest possible challenges the places for peak growth and then he ended up having the fourth highest score in history of the school when you graduated but more importantly is work ethic and drive for continuous improvement. So that for us. That's sort of what we look for in. Everybody is like are they? The kind of person who's going to be able to go through the dark night of the soul when they're working on a problem that hasn't been solved before and are they going to be able to maintain faith and keep pushing themselves to their limits higher for talent trained for skill. We wrote it in Roman closure and there's a lot of reasons for that but when I first made the offer the offer I said it's like well. You just call yourself seeing him on. If you can teach yourself closure in a month I'll give you a job. And he learned it in three weeks and then made them an offer via co-founder like maybe three or four weeks after that because he was so fantastic. I D love that as a story. It's an amazing Taylor relationship that but it's amazing because you do choose to live with the team so play told me. Why did you decide to do this? And what do you think of the benefits of living with the team? I mean it's family right. I mean for us. It's like this is much more than business right. This is the future that we WANNA see. I WANNA build this graph of the world's knowledge so that my kids don't ever have to go to school. They can learn the things that they want to learn and find peers and find mentors and established credentials based on the quality of their work. Adding that maybe this is also part of the reason. There's this sort of cult behind. It is like Rome is a philosophy. It's a believe about how the world should be so we try and put that kind of thing into practice and have orientation towards truth seeking in our personal relationship seeing everything but just having those like really close bonds and having all that time to know each other as people now. We're going the team. We currently have one of our first hires. He was brave enough to brave the airports during the pandemic. And come out here and stay here for six weeks. Bu We are going to be primarily remote company. But it's still great APP. People come out and say for six weeks or a month and just like really get immersed in the culture and for us to be able to know somebody as a whole person I know like what are they wrestling with personally and just have those kind of his. I believe in. We can do a lot with a pretty small team. And it's good to know people for the long haul and be invested in them for long haul. Totally he said about. Mapping the walls down the ability of your kids not schooled in some respects people compared to avenue in all respects in. August two avenue to notion to other tools mortgage that I actually do much more. Comprehensive comparison in terms of mapping the world's knowledge ammo from site tweeted that he felt like us notion that are claimed for mapping the world's knowledge. Yeah I think there's something to be said that Google set out to organize the world's information and now they are organizing all the information about their users to serve the perfect ad which is not the same thing we think a lot about research is actually not a search. We'll give you a single answer to one question but it won't give you a path of like. Here's all the questions you need to ask along the way to reshape your questions or like reframe your question. Here's the path to get from where you are to where you want to be a much harder process and it's one that requires you know you have to know where these are currently is and so for us. What we want is a layer on top of the web of each individual's personal brain and for them to be able to share parts of that with the whole public. The whole world parts of that with some of their friends or certain collaborators and to be able to have basically a read write web a Web. Where if I see a connection between two documents even if I wasn't regional author of those documents somebody else who has those documents in their database can discover that I've connected them or someone who's reading something can see? Get their friends with me. They can see that. I've connection so yeah. That's the future that we WANNA have is one where it's not algorithms that are determining how the world's information is organized. News can be helpful. Today is the ticks machines. Well we're interested in. How does someone at the margin? Who's the first person who ever saw connection between two things way before any I can see that connection? It's like how can you make that connection explicit? So that other people can follow their path. We mentioned tools earlier and clarified often things about the binary statuses of bundling unbundling when you look at the collaboration tool space today that we mentioned in the People. I think probably Romney put you in Jesus of bundling or unbundling. When I'm analyzing that Malkin say it's interesting because I've used. I've seen other use all sorts of tools for organizing their thoughts like they'll use their kindle highlights and then maybe they've got some dedicated software for reading PDF and for building mind maps of the papers that they're reading and then using something like sigma for laying out a bunch of thoughts or digital white boarding all the stuff but none of them have a paradigm of like reusing ideas in different contexts. Taking the same day and showing it in different context. So I think sort of move like not. Yes not no right like in some ways. It's wrong question. I think notion Senate pretty great thing of saying. Hey actually you want your notes in your tables together. You want air table to be an air tables. Also working on notes as well. But if the underlying paradigm evolve it is not one that's generic enough to fit the domains that you're thinking about. That's one of the reasons we're so bullish on graph databases is that there are better representation for the relationship between thoughts the relationship between projects the relationship between people and yeah most of the tools that we have out there are based on the sequel databases and tables and rows that doesn't have the same kind of structure. So yeah we're starting to see some re bundling but I wanna live in a world where I can take the same information and view it in multiple different ways interact with in multiple different ways but be able to always reuse the information that I got from one application in a different context in a different view like when the problem is slightly different. This I totally agree. What shape question with a lot because of your accent? And it's great people either. Think I'm Harry Potter Dole Abandoned Tavern? So I'm totally winning nine away. My favorite they win the so firearms say statement and then you hit me with your immediate sixty seconds a little less all ye ready if I ramble. You gotta give me the Buzzer. I'll give you the bus favorite. Bookham why how to read a book by Mortimer Adler? It's an algorithm. Thought that changes how you read all other books. It was definitely very influential for Rome to waste time on bad books and really good books. You want to give it a much more thorough reading and how to read. A book is the guide to an auto dot X. continuous education classical liberal education fantastic. What's your superpower and then you'll weakness in company building thirty seconds on each. I guess like maybe some combination of like wild vision and I think that being able to clearly picture a future that I wanna live in and communicate that and find the other people who believe in it is been great and then I'd say probably one of my weaknesses. Just write this. Why needed to build room? I'm pretty. Add and have a million thoughts and it's hard to get them into a great process and structure so I try to build a prosthetic brain to make for the weaknesses of mine. I would like to change about the world of tech startups today on for all the talk blocks on farming. A lot of it's really bullshit. I mean it's been amazing to me. How many people want to invest in Rome now and versus health? You wanted to a year ago when like ten thousand dollars to the world of difference for us so I would like to see actually just like much larger investments in people who had actually risky your ambitious ideas that were pretty far away from having traction so. I think that that's something I would like. To See. More small investments in much larger arrays of the problems is the fuss checking into Roy. You've been how did he come about? I was a guy named Richard Meadows. He's famous for eating. Only pizza for a year is a business journalist. And I've been trying to build sort of a framework fraud is sort of secular religion or like learning cultist. We called it during the time where I was typing Rome south and he actually came to retreat in Mumbai. And he's a writer got interested in the settled casting thing and he played with a very early prototype that I had. And he was the first check interim and he's a great friend and helped us right the white paper later that year and a half later this. The White Paper News actually only six months after invested but yeah user of the product. What does story I do have to lost when I say success? He's the first buses that comes to your mind. Jesus Christ I was going to ask why but having it probably fairly obvious or not one hit me. This is the toughest of next five years for you and for Rome. That was an interesting one post on twitter. When you think about the most ambitious vision for Ryan what would that? I'm vicious vision. Be For us. I don't know whether five years historical for this but when I think about the long-term vision it's some kid in Somaliland or Turkmenistan. Or wherever is able to without ever going to a school learn all the things that they need to learn and reach a point where they can actually win a Nobel prize or fields metal or get a job at whatever the SPACEX is of that time just on the merits of what they've contributed to the global knowledge graph and have a replacement for the existing institution? Financial System? And not. But I think George I think the way that we do peer review research is fundamentally completely broken the way that we store the accumulation of all of our civilization's knowledge in PDF's that are hosted by Elsevier is just wrong and so that's in terms of long-term vision. I WANNA to make it possible for people to chart and efficient path to the frontiers of knowledge. And then push that frontier further as I said. I've been such a far more for wall now as I said a short. She's all of my allows me to keep friends but it was put my arguments across thank you so much social network and I've said this this has been fantastic. You're exactly the kind of person who we. You're tons of brilliant people and the fact that you're able to reuse that knowledge and use it to push thinking further your perfect user so. I'm very thrilled to hear that you've using it. I have to say I did. Just love that discussion with corner. I just couldn't be more excited for the time. I had with Rome recession. If you'd like see more from corner which is a must you can find on twitter cornall as C. O. N. A. W. Likewise. It'd be great to welcome you behind the scenes. Hey you can do so on instagram. At Age stubbings. Nineteen ninety-six with TV's to see that but before we leave today. I'm sure you've heard about it. My word I just love this product. Carter Carter simplifies. How startups and investors managed accuracy tables and get money go to Carter DOT COM for slash. Two zero get sent off more than eight. Hundred Thousand Employees and shelled is also to manage hundreds of billions of dollars receipt and Carter now offers fund administration. So you can see real time. Data in the platform and work with causes team experienced fun. Accountants simply go to call to for slash choosier visa to get ten percent off and speaking of teams. That did you know that will be one point. Four million job openings for developers in two thousand twenty and that's one of my friends at terminal. Come in. Tom is a remote teams engine. For false. Growing companies can continue with global talent to deliver the product building powerhouse. Your Business needs to grow. They provide services and infrastructure and complete solution that allows businesses to build scale. Barrymore's engineering teams from the ground up without sacrificing experience or quality spaces to community on the ground support. They take the guesswork out of remote. So you can thrive but don't take my word for it just high-growth businesses like Gusto charm. A in and hymns charting terminal with their remote teams and you can find out more stay at W. W. Dot Terminal Dot that's Terminal Dot. Iro as always I sir appreciate it was pulled my calm weights bringing you a fantastic of episodes next week.

Rome Rome twitter Carter Carter evernote Tom Barrymore youtube Harry Potter founder and CEO Rome Research Long Roy India Jack Morris writer co-founder Corner White Sullivan Co
Kevin Hermening, U.S. Marine Corps, Iran Hostage Crisis

Veterans Chronicles

35:25 min | 1 year ago

Kevin Hermening, U.S. Marine Corps, Iran Hostage Crisis

"It's cutting into your exercise time it stabbing you in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind. It's pain and it's getting in between you and the life. If you want to live cd medic target your pain at its source it's fast acting relief with active o._t._c. Ingredients plus the added benefits of t._h._c. free hemp oil. Get get back to your life with c._b._d. Medic available online and that c._b._s. These statements have not been evaluated by the f._d._a. This product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any disease <music> <music>. Welcome to veterans chronicles. I'm greg columbus. Our guest today is u._s. Marine corps veteran kevin herman in one thousand nine hundred ninety nine. Kevin was a twenty year gerald u._s. Marine assigned to guard the embassy in tehran iran in november of that year he became the youngest of the american hostages as the islamic revolution took hold old in iran four hundred forty four days until kevin and the other hostages were freed and kevin. Thanks very much for your time. Today we greatly appreciate it. Well the real pleasure sure to join you and your listeners and <hes> look forward to a good conversation while it's it's one. I've been looking forward to <hes> for quite a while now. Let's begin with just the beginning of your story in real quickly. Where were you born and raised <hes>. I'm a native of the milwaukee wisconsin area born there grew up in the suburb at the age of eighteen <hes> as the eldest of a five kids <hes> decided to leave after high school and joined the marine corps <hes> to travel and see the world and eventually <hes> the plan was to be able to take advantage of the g._i. Bill which ultimately and eventually i did why the marines well honestly <hes> i i do have a grandfather on my mom's mom side who was a <hes> who is while he's deceased now but a world war veteran and <hes> but other than that really did not have a military presence in in my life <hes> background if you will in our family too much and i had a buddy in highschool who had been recruited to join the marine corps and and he came up to me one day and said hey listen i'm going to be joining the marine corps and they've got this thing called the buddy program and i started thinking about it and looking being added and <hes> <hes> saw it as a way to get some help for college which i wanted to pursue. A ultimately was the first one in my family who ever went to college judge and nonetheless <hes> it was <hes> it was a big change from what people might have been expecting. I i didn't have a plan for post high school and so it seemed as good of choices any <hes> it was supposed to be at phnom which was not really <hes> something i thought much about though as a young paper boy oy of ages twelve to sixteen i would read about it every day on the front pages of the newspaper. I did have a cousin who joined the marine corps <hes> which <hes> played the only a small role in my decision but it was really as part of the buddy program those recruiters to a good job you know so when you enlist that means you go the basic training and basic training for the marines is a little different than it is <hes> any other service branches so how was paris island for you. Well actually <hes> greg. I ended up in <hes> san diego. <hes> those individuals who grow up in the states that <hes> through which the mississippi river either goes or <hes> borders <hes> get a choice to go either to paris island or to san diego and that's where my buddy was going so that's where i am i went and and what's interesting. Is that <hes> my cousin had up in paris island. <hes> i did eventually end up in north carolina for some training but <hes> san diego you know they call it hollywood and <hes> we just sat around in our hawaiian shirts and sunglasses every day as you can imagine so once you completed that <hes> how soon after that was it that you were sent to iran well i signed up for the marines guaranteed contracts go into accounting and indeed <hes>. I went onto some accounting school. <hes> working in the supply field went down to north carolina for my training. I was really fortunate graduated top in my class <hes> for that brief stint and chose to go to japan where i did serve for fifteen months <hes> <hes> i was so very fortunate to get promoted twice in fifteen month period so it was while i was okinawa that i learned about <hes> the marine security already guard program and apply went to a meeting it was in the base theater and as you can imagine they've got big posters of marines and dress blues uniform arms big glossy full-size almost a banners <hes> photos of marines in front of the taj mahal and the eiffel tower and the great wall of china. I and i thought wow this is kind of interesting. I went to the meeting went to work the next morning and asked him a gunnery sergeant. If he had any familiarity at all with the program he did not and nonetheless s. agreed to write a letter of recommendation for me came back to quantico virginia in <hes> mayor june of nineteen seventy-nine for our training as a marine security guard. We started our class with one hundred and seventy nine <hes> students it was the first class that had both male and female marines scenes in it for the m._s._g. Program nine weeks eleven weeks later. Whatever it was <hes> graduated only one hundred and twenty one of us out of the one hundred seventy nine completed the training <hes> successfully and i got my assignment to go to germany and i thought this is terrific. I'm going to be assigned in the middle of europe. We're up <hes> at the u._s. Embassy in germany and certainly i'm going to learn the language. I'm going to be driving one hundred fifty miles an hour on the autobahn and i'm going. It'd be able to go skiing in the alps every other weekend well. That was my vision. That was the plan. After i got my orders and i came back on leave just just before it was to head out. I got back to quantico to gather my belongings and hit overseas and the sergeant major called me into his office and informed me that there had been a mistake and and <hes> they had accidentally assigned to jewish marines <hes> to go to tehran iran and i was going to be taking his place now in the context of mid nineteen seventy-nine. It's really not that far that much of a stretch <hes> for me to say that the first words out of my mouth to the sergeant major were sir. Excuse me but where's tehran so in today's environment we all know where is on the world map in nineteen seventy nine early nineteen nineteen seventy-nine anyway not so much and so <hes> when i think back on it today the very idea that they might have assigned a jewish marine accidentally to go to the u._s. Embassy in <hes> in in tehran would have been just horrible for him. <hes> i'm not saying i'm glad that i was a stand in for for him but <hes> it would have been worse for him from a treatment perspective because there was one jewish hostage <hes> berry rosen who had just horrendous treatment eight -ment he wasn't the marine but one of the state department folks and he had just horrendous treatment including because of his faith now. I don't know if you were briefed or later but obviously the revolution was already ongoing by the summer of seventy nine in fact there had been a very brief hostage incident in february of that year. So what were you told to expect and what were your first impressions once you got there. Will you know as a young marine sergeant. I was very fortunate to have been promoted to the rank of e. Five sergeant fifteen months after after i left for boot camp <hes> i had all the responsibility of a sergeant e five in the marine corps but at age twenty having just turned age aged twenty i had very little capability or skills of being a leader and <hes> so <hes> i was excited about the opportunity attorney to go back overseas <hes> we didn't really we were not briefed on the environment in the countries in which we were going to be based <hes> that took place place on site once we got there <hes> and so when the other three guys and i got off the plane in the middle of the night in tehran mehrabad international airport and we were greeted by armed guards and a bunch of mola's running around <hes> as well as all the revolutionaries it was quite <hes> quite quite disconcerting to be sure the next day found myself of course <hes> going through briefings and training and i thought to things while what did i get myself itself into <hes> but secondarily i thought to myself wow i'm in the middle of something. I'm in the middle of country which is consequential sequential in that era in time and little. Did i know just how consequential events would become over the course of the next three months so in the three months leading up to november four th which will obviously get to in just a moment <hes>. How tense was it right outside the u._s. Embassy or or wherever you were posted they're on a regular basis or early on. I would not describe them as tense or intense. Even <hes> things were pretty relaxed. When we first arrived arrived during the day we would quite often <hes> be able to go out to the local <hes> shopping district the marines <hes> once a week we would get in our big van and and <hes> other than the guys on duty the rest of us would head up into the mountains north of the city and do our p._t._o. Physical training do are running and such <hes> we we had visitors over from the british embassy in the canadian embassy and the australian embassy. <hes> you know we would we would play cards. We drink beer. We'd we'd have have a good time. We'd play softball out on the big twenty twenty three acre sprawling compound comprised of the u._s. embassy in nineteen seventy nine. We would play football with one one another. <hes> i enjoyed the first two and a half three months. We were there <hes> two and a half months anyway and then that's when the shah of iran was given the go-ahead to come into the united states for his medical treatment of course the shah the former leader before the ayatollah khomeini took over <hes> the shah was in very real <hes> suffering from cancer and so the u._s. government president carter made the decision to admit him into the philadelphia cancer center and <hes> he he was there for cancer treatment for a few weeks until the u._s. Government ultimately decided that he should leave the country of the united states because within that added intervening time the u._s. Embassy was overrun. We were taken captive in the beginning of the hostage. Ordeal began so kevin. We've built right up to the day <hes>. Let's talk about november fourth nineteen seventy-nine what happened we've <hes> at the time become familiar with the protests in the streets the burning of the american flags chanting of the people <hes> tens of thousands literally tens of thousands of people on a daily basis <hes> surrounding this twenty three acre compound <hes> many buildings on it <hes> the big motor pool even the chancery building and the consulate were on the compound itself the ambassador's residence we marines actually we lived outside the back gate in an apartment building <hes> not on the compound so it was not not secure it was not <hes> protected in any way whatsoever <hes> the protests in the demonstration the death to america chanting the yankee he go home all of that <hes> the signs that said send the shah back to iran for <hes> for war crimes trials that they wanted to put him on <hes> they disdained president carter's support for the shaw and that became the ultimate motivation to come onto the compound and to capture the americans and hold us captive for four hundred forty four days though i think everybody involved would admit that neither we nor they expected that it would drag gone for fourteen and a half months marine security guards at that time in tehran we were only carrying twelve gauge shotguns and thirty eight caliber revolvers and a huge satchel of tear gas. There were no automatic weapons. <hes> we were not prepared of course having a dozen marines assigned to the embassy we might talk big but we're not it can be able to withstand an onslaught of million people because there were about eight hundred thousand people ultimately surrounding the compound that day including the iranian the an army which showed up around eleven a._m. To help in the takeover of the embassy the secular government of the prime minister in his government. They resigned the next morning. After it became clear that the ayatollah khomeini was going to lend his entire support to those who were on the compound who supported supported him <hes> and we're taking captive and quite honestly if we asked for it i would just say that the ayatollah looked at this as an opportunity to distract distract the attention of the iranian people away from the fact that he really was not adding much value to economic growth growth <hes> educational improvement <hes> healthcare or any other thing <hes> that it was all just about <hes> religion to the ayatollah and his followers and <hes> we became a distraction that lasted for a really long time and that was good for the regime because they were able to consolidate their power over those four hundred forty four days for me. I happened to be in the building that morning. I was <hes> actually planning the marine corps corps birthday ball which was supposed to have happened the week following <hes> of course the marine birthday celebration annually at our embassies around the world. I was there they were planning it but as they came over the gates through the gates and over the walls. I picked up my flak jacket donned. My helmet grabbed my shotgun on and tear gas and put my holster on with my revolver and i took my post inside of one of the windows in the front. <hes> inside of one of the offices just below. We're one of the windows overlooked the front lawn. If you will of the big sprawling compound the scene was chaotic. We used tear-gas to the delay them for about two hours the entry into the building as we retreated under the direction of the acting embassador the shark shade affairs bruce langen who by the way just passed away in late july of twenty nineteen this year he <hes> was the one giving the orders marine security guards by the way are under dual jurisdiction but mostly receive orders from state department folks not only from the dod and so the marine corps we had certain things things that we had to comply with but mostly the state department officials were in charge of giving the orders that day and ultimately the orders were to retreat up to the second floor or of the main building <hes> and <hes> as the second floor door eventually was opened up <hes>. We had our tear gas tear gas masks on <hes>. I happened to be part of a group of ten americans who found ourselves <hes> in the communications vault at the far are into the hallway a big probably <hes> sixty by twenty foot square foot <hes> big vault where all the computer equipment equipment was the satellite gear a lot of faith a lot of secure and <hes> all of the <hes> cables and such go through there and i found myself in that ball and we held out for an additional four hours <hes> fully expecting that within that timeframe the one thing thing that should have happened on november fourth nineteen seventy-nine was that the host government the iranian government would under international law do its job and come to the compound clear it of the iranians who were all across it and set the americans free in fact as i said earlier the government itself fell the iranian army became loyal to the ayatollah and they participated in capturing us and ultimately under threat that that one of the americans ellen gallinsky was to be hanged from the second story window with a noose around and a rope around his neck handcuffed behind his is back a gas mask bag on over his head <hes> so he couldn't see the iranians threatening to kill him. The decision was made by our c._i._a. Station chief to open the vault door and at that moment the last ten of us were ultimately captured. Wow so what happened then once. They had all of you in custody. What did they do. Well the last ten of us. <hes> were put through a series of <hes> russian roulette periods which was very <hes> to me. It was the second or third worst moments of my life. The first and second worst moments would happen later under during our captivity following a failed escape attempt of mine <hes> in january of that next year and then a mock execution that occurred on valentine's valentine's day the next february but <hes> they blindfolded us. They handcuffed us behind our backs. They put a gas mask bag over our are head to double secure our ability to see they did that later that night and one by one they brought us down the hallway and began to interrogate us <hes> asking us who we were what we did <hes> asking us to open up safes <hes>. I tried to convince them quote. I'm just marine security guard. They didn't believe that because why would a marine security guard being a suit and tie and why would i be in the communications communications vault if that was my real job. Why wouldn't i have my fatigues on or dress blues on. Why wouldn't i be with the other marine guards. It took all of about ten nine months. I believe for them to finally succumb to the idea that my real job was that of a marine security guard one might think that that would be worse than some of the other jobs robs and maybe it might have been it was worse than <hes> in their eyes and therefore our treatment than being administrative assistant or something like that i get it by and we were their age were largely age of those who captured the embassy. They were really looking for the senior military officers and they were looking who who knew the shah <hes> and his leaders and his former military leaders as well as the senior state department folks in those attached to the intelligence services those are the real folks who <hes> who seemed to <hes> be those they were seeking to to find out about but because i wasn't in that other their environment for so long i did have some of the same treatment as those folks because of the environment in which i found myself as all ten of us. We're talking with u._s. Marine corp veteran kevin herman. We're talking about the iranian hostage crisis and kevin you talked briefly there about your attempted escape that was in january so basically a couple of months. It's after this happened. How did that unfold but one of the other <hes> guys who was held hostage i for fourteen and a half months <hes> joe subic and then and another fellow steve lauterbach a <hes> state department communications guy. We ended up rooming together. They placed into a corner office in the main building <hes> right around christmas of nineteen seventy nine and i was pretty anxious. I was pretty antsy. I i just well well. None of us wanted to be there <hes> but i was willing to actually try to make our way off the compound up the street about four blocks to either the british or the canadian embassies. Maybe even the russian embassy back then the soviet embassy with the intent that they would want to score brownie points for propaganda ganda purposes and help us get out but nonetheless it didn't become a thing meaning our escape because <hes> <hes> we were taken over to the ambassador's residence about once every three or four weeks to take a shower and it so happened that the day we were trying. We were going to try who escape <hes> that we have been planning for for roughly four weeks. They actually put me into the ambassador's bathroom for my shower and that happened to be the safe room in his residence. <hes> steel walls steel floors steel feeling bars on the windows windows bulletproof glass <hes> steel door there was no way in or out and so <hes> there was no way that i was going to be able to actually get out and and they have been able to learn over this the preceding three weeks that we were actually planning this and what ended up occurring is i. I basically stayed in that bathroom for about ten minutes before i opened the door and as they rushed in they came in with <hes> fists flying they came came in with broomsticks flying. I was beaten up pretty badly <hes> but found myself in solitary confinement than for forty three days in a small five they've by ten foot room the only thing in that room other than me was the box spring of a bed not the nice cushion or mattress. I should say the only time i got out of that room. In forty three days was to use the bathroom mostly once a day <hes> and take take three showers in the forty three days that i was in solitary confinement i did in fact. I think i was the only one still left there. The guards were not very helpful in dissuading me from thinking that which only helped to weigh on my psyche i was <hes> by the end of that forty three days which is six six weeks and a day virtually begging them that if there are any other americans still there and of course they were all still there. Please put me in another room with one of the other americans americans and they finally relented and on the forty third date i i was i ended up getting roomed with alan golsen ski who was the regional security officer in the guy who they threatened to execute on that very first day but in that period of time those forty three days in addition to making <hes> having all the fears that i had one night around two in the morning they rounded up all the other americans who were in that lower floor in their respective rooms and they dragged us out into the hallway. They strip searches. They pulled our clothes off except for undershorts handcuffed us us lined up against the wall and as one of the iranian guards at the top of his lungs started shouting out execution commands the guards were chamberlain in their weapons making it sound like they were putting <hes> bullets in rounds into the chambers and that they were about to execute us and <hes> to this very day that was by far the most frightening night of my entire life lieutenant colonel dave rader airforce fellow also native of wisconsin by by the way he finally had enough and <hes> started screaming at the top of his lungs. If they're gonna do it just get it over with. Already the guards got intimidated aided by that response and it came to an end. We were put in back into our rooms. They had ransacked our rooms. While we were in the hallway. The next day you would have just thought that the guards didn't think that they had done anything extreme but <hes> we knew that they had and it was their way to assert their power over us was their way to ensure that we knew and of course we already did know but we knew that they were the ones in charge. Some more than six weeks in solitary followed almost immediately by the mock executions. That's obviously got to be putting you in a very difficult place mentally and then the next thing you know you've got surprise visitor yeah actually <hes> in april of nineteen eighty. We're there for roughly six months already and the guards come into my room. One day i was with al goal since ski and said that <hes> <hes> i should <hes> put my shoes on and a sweater and that they were taking me to another room well anytime we moved. We i thought we would never see the roommates. We had previous to that prior to that and they put me in a room. They sat me on a sulfite looked around. There were tons of tv cameras as i don't care what kind of dog and pony show is going to go on now but anytime we saw t._v. Cameras which was not often but it was christmas time and easter <hes> we saw those as as opportunities to get on t._v. So that our families back in the united states could see yes. They would be able to catch a brief glimpse of us even if they couldn't hear us. We didn't know they could hear us. We didn't know that the recordings we're going to go through but that they saw that we were alive and that is in good condition as we might they might expect us to be and i'm sitting there with a lot of guards and a lot of tv cameras and big league lights and then walks my mom they she was escorted gortat in and i thought it was almost a twilight zone <hes> moment <hes> very surreal <hes> they brought water over the saturday down well. I stood up of course and embraced her <hes> she was crying. It took me a few minutes to figure out why she was there. Or how did she get in. Why would she come and the conversation quite honestly was limited to nothing more than her telling me. She came because she was worried about me. Which i thought yeah that makes sense but why are you here and all the rest of the conversation was basically about what's going on back home with my brothers and sisters and my my dad and stepmom and family and friends of course i was i was a sponge orange to listen to and hear everything and anything i could <hes> and i wanted to know what was being done to get us out and none of those conversations were allowed at all the guards would step forward they would make threatening gestures and we were not allowed to talk about anything related to the negotiations about the carter carter administration about anything of real importance at least in the context of where we were of course we cared about our families. We love them. We wanted to get home to them and as quickly as she was there she was gone and i didn't know until seven weeks later that she was there when the rescue excu attempt was going down and i didn't learn until i got home in january of nineteen eighty one that the reunions thought that she was there as a distraction from operation eagle claw the whole difficulty of not knowing did they let her go. Did she get captured as well. <hes> what was the real purpose what was going on. It led to almost as much uncertainty before as after we're talking with kevin herman and he's a u._s. Marine corps veteran <hes> one of the americans americans held hostage for four hundred forty four days at the u._s. embassy in tehran and kevin. When did you start to get an inclination that you might be heading home soon. I've read some reports that they started treating you better to make you look a little better a few weeks before you actually were released. Yeah that's true just a couple of weeks before they <hes> brought a doctor into check kasahda a couple of nurses just to make sure that <hes> we were healthy. It was all for show we later learned you know our story is compelling as it might be to folks and of of course dominated the world headlines the u._s. headlines for sure impacting presidential election. It's the three marines and five airmen who every free single day since nineteen eighty when i first heard about this two months after it happened they gave their lives selflessly so that we might it'd be freed perished in the desert due to mechanical failures sandstorm just the very idea that people will step up to volunteer to rescue people they don't know because they consider it their duty their responsibility and they love their fellow man is <hes> something thing that has stayed with me for forty years and has become a core <hes> philosophical component of my very being kevin you who have experienced the loss of freedom which is something that most americans haven't how would you describe the feeling of being freed and returning turning to the u._s. and and what it feels like to have that freedom back losing your freedom puts you in a position where you you have to learn patience if you didn't have it before if you had it before. You have to be even more patients than you were. Previously it makes you appreciate the smallest things in life. <hes> i was outside in the fresh sharon sunshine for just two hours in a small courtyard i in a small village that they took us to <hes> after the rescue attempt in an in an effort to isolate elite us <hes> my spent two hours in a small courtyard in the sun and it was the only time i was outdoors in four hundred and forty four days. I don't care the weather now now just to be able to see outdoors and breathe the fresh air to follow the news to talk to my family to enjoy my recreational pursuits and to be able to live as a free human being and appreciate every little thing including what we might eat because you can only imagine what we ate while we were in captivity which really has an impact the kids when i speak to them in elementary and middle schools they always want to know what we had to eat and those grass and goat guts oops. We're not that great and so the kids find that kind of interesting and end up thinking they're lunchroom. <hes> cooks in the middle of the school day <hes> for me being freed on january twentieth nineteen eighty-one. It didn't change my life. It was one of the best parts of my life other than my marriage and raising my children and continuing doing a life of gratitude and appreciation and service community service giving back. I did serve seven years later in the marine corps reserves but but think losing one's freedom makes the person want to fight even harder to make sure that no one ever has to lose their freedom whether it's economic social or anything else. It's what i've committed my life to for more than forty years now last question i vividly remember as a child seeing the yellow ribbons everywhere everywhere. I'm sure there were still up when you got home when you saw the national reaction. What did it mean to know that so. Many americans were absolutely praying for your return and were so overjoyed when it finally happened. It's a great question and i would say to you that having having so many people intricately committed to pray for release and hoping for that to result in a positive outcome <hes> people who wrote us cards while we were there and welcome home letters when we did get home <hes> <hes> was much more than we expected much more than we knew would occur just the very idea that so many people were <hes> following our situation became became a surprise to us which we did get a glimpse of when we arrived in germany on our way home at the v spot in the air force base there where we stayed for a couple of days before we he came back to west point and were greeted by families and ultimately back to our hometowns. It's given me an appreciation that when our veterans <hes> get called into harm's when our our soldiers and sailors and marines and airmen and coast guardsmen called into harm's way that <hes> they are welcomed welcome home. I'm very involved in the honor flight program in central wisconsin which brings veterans to washington to see their monuments. I'm very involved in my local veterans organizations organizations in central wisconsin both as a active participant as well as a donor to the various causes and i recently started veterans ministry austria at my church to kind of help the guys understand that there's an important role that we all can play in standing beside one another in helping people get past pass the challenges. They might have based on the past kevin. It's an amazing story and so encouraging to see all that you've pursued after coming home. <hes> <hes> you run your own financial business now and and the ministry you run with the veterans is so encouraging as well. Thank you so much for your service to our country most of all thank you very much for your time with us. Today also very much appreciate the opportunity and <hes> just reminding always <hes> everybody the importance that freedom is fleeting. It's not protected each and every day kevin herman u._s. Marine corps veteran was the youngest of the american hostages held for four hundred forty four days in tehran from nineteen seventy nine to nineteen eighty-one. I'm greg columbus. This is veterans chronicles. Hi it's jamie progressive's employee employee of the month two months in a row. Leave a message at the hi jamie. It's me jamie. I just had a new idea for our song about the name your price tool so when it's like tell us what you want to pay hey hey hey and the trombone goes blah blah blah and you say we'll help you find coverage options to fit your budget. Then we just all do finger snaps while a choir goes savings coming at ya savings coming at joe. Yes no maybe anyway see you practice tonight. I got new lyrics for the rap break progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law and if you've owned your car for a while or maybe you got a great deal on a used vehicle that feels new to you aaa has a vehicle protection plan that fits your needs needs and your budget. Let's face it. Unexpected and expensive repairs can pop up. That's why triple a vehicle protection plans provide comprehensive coverage for for maintenance and repair to take some of the risk out of driving classic find out more about our vehicle protection plans at triple a. dot com slash vehicle plan him. Can i get a drum roll please. It's time for the best deal of the year on xfinity and ask about even more savings when you add xfinity mobile that simple easy z. awesome click call business store. Today restrictions apply not available in all areas.

marine corps Kevin tehran united states kevin herman tehran wisconsin iran shah germany iranian army greg columbus iran quantico carter carter marine corps corps joe subic
Beach Steppin' | Most Overrated Play In History?

The Free Agents

1:00:28 hr | 11 months ago

Beach Steppin' | Most Overrated Play In History?

"Yeah stepping on the beach. The only place to go and read your emails and Tweets G. skeets here with the crew tasks and Trey Ah Lee and Gd as always WanNa thank everyone who sent in questions this week. Much love to all ya'll keep coming email. No dunks at the athletic dot com or tweet at no dunks INC or use that Hash Tag. No dunks we've got lots again. Let's get into yeah. Hey No dinger's longtime longtime listener and fellow beantown Gal. There seems to be a few elite teams that are favoring the championship this year. Such as the Lakers bucks and clippers clippers with that being said there are still a lot of teams. That are exciting to watch so if you could pick an underdog to win this year. Who would you pick as from Juliet in in New Hampshire? Thanks for the email. Julia could question. I think she wants some hometown cooking. And it's one comes. Just after the Celtics play the Lakers the biggest margin of victory earlier. Julian uh-huh this coming the Celtics crushing the Lakers. You're right the other night She is right look. I think it's when you when you look at like Vegas guses odds to win the title. It is those three teams she mentioned. It's the Lakers box and clippers as your favorites in some different orders depending on the site. But it's those three and then there's a pretty sharp drop off to like the next batch the next tier of teams I think is where she's probably thinking we're picking from as the underdog right. That's one of those three. Is Everybody in underdog in a way way the Vegas yes. Yeah that's that's my question is sort of weighed you. What becomes an underdog that someone who you don't think can win the championship realistically the three? She named Yeah. Yeah I think the next batches in the NBA world think about the last few years. Those are underdogs underdogs the front runners win. They win championships right. So who do you have for this year. Well I guess the REP is an underdog and I think When the healthy when they've got everyone playing together the deep they've got stars? They've been there before they're motivated. Beating the box. Obviously of course there was no there will be no. Why Island this year? But I think they've got a formula and that belief that they can beat the bucks so I think out of the east they can get back to the finals and then pay they. They beat the Lakers in Los Angeles. Already they lost to the Clippers in Toronto in Los Angeles. Good I just think that like last year even with Kawhi we didn't really think the raptors going to get their last year. We sort of thought you know even even at this point maybe the raptors but something always goes wrong but they've been there and done it and they've got the same cast paw coin Danny Green there. I'd say why the Raptors shouldn't be still considered a team like last year. If things go the way things bounce the right way for them they could get back there and then anything could happen. Underdog pick argue that. Because I don't see it happening but God. I hope I'm wrong wrong. I got the sixers and the rockets in the same boat both teams that have to monster stars. We're not exactly sure if that's a great fit with each other and they've been underwhelming at times but I've got the sixers ahead of the rockets. I just I don't know why maybe they've failed fewer times in the playoffs. But I just I have a little bit more confidence in the the sixers showing up and for sure playing defense. I think they can win. When embiid is on the court I think they can win with him? Beat as off the court will they gel in time for a playoff series aries. Who knows if that's ever going to happen with them? It'll never looked good but I just have A. I'm up on the six or ceiling. I think that they are still a possible title contending team even though you know the fifth seed in the Eastern Conference right now. They don't look like a team. That would win a championship. But those two guys along with the other starters that they brought around on a maybe they pick up somebody at the deadline that helps out. I'm stupid about the sixers right. Now that's why they're in under UK. You GotTa pick somebody. Nobody believes in. That's why I'm taking the jazz. The only one of the underdogs that are top ten on offense and defense and that's an important element comes to being a great team. Nobody who's not the top ten or top ten defense every Wednesday chairmanship They'll be in all games defensively and then I think Mitchell can give them that offensive bucket in the end. If he's playing to that level they kind of remind me of the twenty eleven maps to some degree. And so it's it's a dream. It's a big big dream. A lot of guys leftover performed. But I I would kinda pick somebody from the West because I think they would also have a lot of confidence once they get their against the bucks who I think will be there and the they'll be thinking again. We're both in the finals for the first time. The bucks first trip. So they'll have that sort of confidence level that an eastern team wouldn't have against you know Lebron or Kawai I'd imagine in my My underdog pick Miami Heat because we talked about it on the midseason report and we played Word Association. I had Miami and I compared them the heat. Twenty say this when you're talking about the raptors I compared this year's heat in ways to last year's raptors when sort of go through their roster and their make up and they're coaching you know Jimmy Butler. There's the closer he is their star and that was their second stars Bam in Miami and that was crm at times of course last year for the wraps. They've got a vet point guard trying to prove doubters wrong. That was kind of last year. Sort of drudge. If he is still there and not move at the deadline. All the little hidden gems with the rookies in Miami and the Robinson and Derek Jones junior suddenly playing playing defense. That's in ways you know again. These sort of uncovered guys in Vanfleet not to some extent last year deep rosters. It's far fetched. I don't think they're gonNA win a title but sure if the wraps SORTA did it with that sort of makeup well coached in that established bunch. Why couldn't Miami and they're you know they're have an unbelievable record right now? We're GONNA have some homecourt advantage in theory complex where they can't be beat for whatever reason only lost once at home so that could help too weird to hear people talking about the Miami Heat homecourt advantage. I remember when they were in the playoffs playoffs. Lebron James they didn't have much homecourt advantage. Nobody showed up until the second quarter right. Seems to be a little bit different now. But we're not taking the beantown Bait here. Julia sounds like nobody's picking the Celtics as a dark horse. You could talk me into so many team still and what's great about this season so far. Yes those three frontrunners Lakers and clippers. I that's fair that their odds would be higher lower. You want to look at it in terms of winning a title but I liked we come in thinking might be heater. Nineteen hundred title this year up still like I don't know six or seven. Maybe I've crossed a couple of the list but I I. I wouldn't be shocked if a Celtics team dimmer did make a run to the finals. At least in getting there they played well. They've played well against teams to Yeah that'd beaten the box at home and now he has said that beating the Lakers if things do you fall into place. Boston can be very good but Yeah I mean that's what an under no underdog is someone who surprises you. who was the last UNDIDAHK champion? Rappers RAPP hops on the Warriors First Year Probably Twenty Fifteen Mavericks Twenty Eleven. Those three fit the bill. That's for sure our next one. Hey Boys started coaching my four year old girl in the junior NBA. And they gave her a reversible. Seventy sixers Jersey as part of the goodies. She'll adorable but I have issues with her rep in Philly really. I want to buy her a Jersey for her birthday but I'm stumped on who to get her a raptors fan so I immediately thought about a coup why or lowery or maybe a retro Vince Carter Carter. Then I thought about guys like Luca Steph and Lillard. My question is what Jersey would you get your kid and why I've been a fan since around episode six six hundred of the Basketball Jones days. I also remember tax cuts on the score. Keep up the good work. That's from Judd from Kinara Ontario. Thanks John Thank you jet. I'm always surprised. He's the raptors fan. Doesn't throw them into the mix they're talking Dwi Laurean TRAVEC put on the shortlist. At least but what about you guys. You're the you're the ones with children my girls asked for jerseys. This past Christmas Island said. Can I get a tray under house. Which one do you want? Red Or black cool So I gotTa Peachtree one show ended up a few days. After Christmas I was wishing for the red one the only president she had any sort of an opinion on straight up desk. She got to the game earlier this week. She loves it so it's all good. Get a player on a rookie contract. I would say they're going to be around with their team for a long longtime so a trae. Young is a good choice. Luca with the Mavericks Job with the Grizzlies. Even Donovan Mitchell with the Jazz. He's still on his rookie deal. You gotta get somebody who's going to be there at least until your kid grows out of the Jersey so three or four years something like that also established guy lowry's good curry's good with the warriors people who are going to have their jerseys retired by that team. Yeah I went with Mitchell with specifically with the Red Rock Jerseys. But that's their their city addition sort of their third jerseys. But maybe I'm making a mistake because you bought Isla City edition a Third Jersey. Maybe you don't want to buy a Childish Jersey that doesn't show up in games that often because they see other ones my other pick was the Miami. We've ice baby blues from the Miami Heat because they're great but also a city edition jury so I don't know maybe I'm making a mistake. He's got your little ones always. I've got a Raptors Jersey right. Yeah plenty I've never made a purchase though you've pushed the raptors onto her people like me we have a little raptor stall like. Yeah I am pushing it wherever I can all my rental kids. Yes you're getting raptor stuff but that's me my seven year old. Would love love that because he was born in Toronto spent six years of his life here in Atlanta. He's still a rap fan. He's still a Toronto Fan. The only wants the raptors stuff. So it's only seen the raptors. There's really yeah. He doesn't know where the rebels just the worst team in the playoffs every year. Maybe he's made alive. I Yeah Yeah Yeah Raptors Dino if you want it got it at the airport do do that. Don't ever buy anything at the airport. Twenty nine ninety five. I wish I was stupid. But it's cute little actress Best Mascot in the League too so does your Your boys don't have any jerseys. Oh my seven year. Old has a Janas onto Kupa shirt that he got from the kids dropped. We had a couple of years that around at school. It's finally fits him but they don't actually have replicas Joseph Toronto T SHIRT BUT NOT LIKE JERSEY. Yeah Okay Okay I feel Jersey's my kids had all disasters Jimmy Butler Minnesota not good. Lebron James cavs got during the finals gone within in a month Derrick rose bowls one. You gave Isla Devon Booker. So at least he's still there other than that they're like strike it out. It's like as soon as they get a jersey. Somebody's what he's leaving so I guess maybe that's bad news about trae young jinx's on. Yeah Yeah. Jd You got an answer for this. One I mean Jackson has a Derosa Jersey. But don't underestimate how heartbroken they get if they get traded because Jackson was devastated win Derosa left just as the association. That's my Jersey that's my guy And now he's gone so I would recommend not getting getting it right and then what is this. Is this where it to school or something like that Yeah Trey didn't play for them anymore. Yeah yeah well around here if you wear a Raptors Jersey they're like what the raptors but then they go to games and they fill in probably twenty eighty percent of the arena their next one here Hainault dunkers coming to you from the beaches of the Mornington Peninsula Melbourne. Australia skeets skeet with all the talk about your wiggins island dying down. Can I suggest something else not so permanent picture. This raining outside gumboots can recumbents are rubber boots gumboots hat rain jacket on. What's the best thing to do chump in a puddle of course for example a few weeks back I finally felt warm enough to jump in the Miami Heat puddle? My question WHO's puddle. You WANNA be jumping in as from Ryan so a shorter order state and going to an island. Just a little puddle jumper puddle jump. WHO's jumping into a puddle? Anyone this question what the hell is he talking about. uh-huh why wouldn't you jump into a pool that you won't. You won't even go that far. I guess maybe not traveling to an island. But he won't even Japan. The puddle will be gone soon. You if you jumped in the WIGGINS puddle. You could enjoy it while it's there it's like there'll be another puddle Sunday I have well okay. Yeah so I was Gonna say I have never ever. I wanted to jump in a puddle because that means I'm going to joy anymore right right I'm jaded instead. I have to put down fifteen hundred dollars dollars for a flight. Got To find a hotel on some island. I don't even know what it's GonNa look like in a couple of weeks and that's why I'm upset because I'm still on wiggins island. Yeah well I had trouble will interpreting this question too so I thought about you know who's who's a player that sort of like I'm sort of into this guy but I'm not that into I guess and so. We talked about that a little bit yesterday. Show Larry Market from Chicago. I still think the something therefore maybe not in Chicago ago. But I've seen enough to be like. I think this guy could be an important player on in the right team. It's just not Chicago so I'm not ready. I don't think he'll be in Europe in two years and I think you'll still be in the NBA. And I think someone will find the right spot for him. So you're splashing around. Yes yes absolutely not buying an island a hotel on his island or anything like that. But I'm like it's very hard to tell with Jim Boylan system in in Chicago. Yeah well thank you for the ringing endorsement. He won't be in Europe within two years saying. Hey where's Larry market in my kids don't have his jersey. He'll notice that they get a Bowl Jersey as benny the bull. That's it it'll be around. I've jumped in the Chris. Paul puddle disliked him for the majority of his career but finally he seems like. He's like the elder statesman of of his team. And he's actually like tutoring the guys on the team. He likes being wanted. I just loved the cut of Chris. Paul's Jeb right now. But you know The hater is still inside amy. I'm burying it deep down within for twenty twenty. I see all these tweets about look at these incredible clutch. Plays Chris Paul. What a closer? I'm burying down. I'm keeping it down in there because I I do remember things that happened in the past. I'm not going to bring them up because it's twenty twenty and we're promoting positivie. Were jumping and Chris Paul's puddle. Did you enjoy this last week. When Chris Paul said there was no uh-huh chance that he would be waving his forty four million dollars even if it means getting traded to a contender doesn't care it's like she give back forty four million dollars? That's ridiculous and I'm with them on that one. I'm in that puddle as well. You gotTA puddle test. I'd jumped in the Russell Westbrook puddle for now. Because he's he's he's on fire but I'll jump out at some point because you know he'll not play this way for his entire season. Maybe maybe maybe it's here to stay. Maybe a thunderstorm. Maybe it will be raining here for the next six months until the playoffs. Maybe the rockets do have a shot. But he's gotTa play this way and that that means turn down. Some three point looks and that means being selective. Yeah that's why he's he's great right now. It'd be nice if they him westbrook heart and could get going at at the same time to. Maybe that'll happen. The playoffs and then they will be the underdog to the finals. Because that's what these APP and it seems like either Westbrook's sort of poor and shooting poorly and then you got hard and ball and then it flips. It's very strange ear for the Houston Rockets. Although we say that a lot of time with them yeah I mean that was what and James Harden really. They couldn't get it together. And Ah Chris Paul to a lesser extent with todd and couldn't really couldn't really both get going at the same time next one here. Hey fell hall as well. I heard an amazing Gregg Popovich story this week from trustworthy source. I can't name the Spurs charity. Organization recently held a benefit event for research on the disease that tragically took POPs wife by by all accounts. It was a really fancy night and a great time was had by all a lot of cool stuff was auctioned off but the two murky items were dinner with Manu's family and a wine tasting acting with pop complete with a menu of his own selections. The Ginobili family dinner went for thirty grant so the president was set for an even greater hall from the pop wind deal two guys were left. Bidding as the price past fifty thousand went popovich suddenly stood up and bid one hundred and fifty thousand dollars seemingly just to avoid hanging out with either of the last two bidders. The man hosting the auction was very confused and said well. I don't really know what to do next. Pop told him just bring the band backup. It's fine and that ended the night pretty amazing and classic pop tail for sure my question though of this for for all of Y'all what's the most you've ever done to get out of something you didn't want to do. That's from Caleb. I hope that pops story is true. That is pretty awesome. Hunter fifty grand. Just the fact just guys trying to drive up the price there and he's I don't WanNa hang with either seem annoying the band up triplet ripple and we'll call it a night. I hope that's true. It's a very funny story but yeah good question. What's the most you've ever done to get into something you didn't WanNa do? Jd if you've got an answer to jump in but we've got a good story wise to work in a hotel bar in London and these companies to made it was one of those like Amway companies you know. Hey you have to recruit people to then they have recruit people and it's all a bit of a pyramid type thing. Okay so I was the bombing and so The guy would just come up and tell me about what he was. Peach was and I was just like yes. Sure sign me up but this is before everyone had mobile phones but I just did it to be like. Yeah just stop talking by a drink and galway thing never really seem I'm again and again he couldn't contact me because I didn't have a phone number so that was great. Okay so I thought you just never see that again. And then but then they started meeting regularly like every every month or six weeks or so so this guy kept coming back and he kept trying to recruit me. And I'm like Oh man I can't get away from this guy because I'm in the body and so a sore on On the rundown one day on the list are meeting and they only used to meet for like forty five minutes before they beat meeting and I have to get there but also learn and so like it was a busy bar and I could see them coming in and I saw him. I just walked off and I just walked off busy busy lobby and there was all sorts of paper and we had a restaurant downstairs and I just walked into the restaurant and sort of made myself busy and then those people up there sort of looking around but but there was no one serving them and there was no one really around in like the hotel staff around center. People would just sort of looking for a bomb into the mini. Just wasn't there. And then you did all on that guy to come to you again and try and recruit. Yeah because because over the Times I've tried to say yeah you know but but showing real a real passive passive aggressive. I'm busy. I'm busy talked me later. But he just didn't stop. He was relentless so I thought the only way to do this is to avoid him and so I just walked off and left at the bar unattended us. But what if what if you took that job Who knows I don't know I don't care? It was pretty funny to hope. No one ever says. Hey where were you just like Now it's downstairs for them to leave long essay. I sort of started filing out. Then I slept slip back in there because there were other guests waiting for a drink and eventually serve them but It was it was was a pretty badly run hotel as you can just walked off. I can remember times visiting my Grandma's House send my dad would be like all right. You got a shot. Go take a shower. You can come back. Hang out whatever but I hated. Hated taking showers even back then so I would run the shower. Get my hair hair wet. Get like so not so but like you know just like the little droplets water on my shoulder. Get a soap sent going. I'm spending earning as much time making. It seem like show show. Yeah exactly and then I come back all right took gone for ten minutes or whatever and my dad's like all right. Let me smell your armpits. You didn't take a shower. You got me sounding to go in and take a shower. After I took my fake shower that took as long as the real shower anyways uh spent like half an hour using to get clearly. I know it's dumb but now I look back on it. I'm like well now that I'm grown up. I just don't shower and I don't want to you you know live and learn. I don't have an answer for this on. Nothing that competes no not really but I just the only thing I would add is with a lot of things. If there's something like I am trying to put off like I don't really want to do like there's an important email I have to send or like a call like whatever you just. You know those things that you just don't feel like doing I will just do the classic. I'll do everything else like I'll suddenly be doing all of the laundry and I will unload the dishwasher and I will vacuum. I will do every other possible thing. I can think of to just lower on the list all eventually eventually get to it but now we gotta do this sort of half ass question. Okay next email here. Hey crew been a big fan of the show since twenty eleven living in Australia the drop has been part of my Saturday morning for almost ten years. Respect my question for you guys is this where all the villains this year and year's past we've had people love or hate the warriors and the bronze super team in Miami. We've ganged up on mellow. It's been Kobe versus the world at this moment there seems to be too much love in the NBA. Yeah not enough hate according to Jake. Do you think we're going to see the fans opinion on Luca Yokich or Lebron swing to see them become a villain villain or will it be some other team or player. Anything could still happen. That's from Jake. In Sydney looking for the villains I mean harden is sort of a villain. He's disliked that really make him a villain like Westbrook and him are definitely have their haters. Yeah so the they're sort of. I would throw in there. What he's saying though it's like well Jaanus is like the MVP and like everybody still loves them? Luca's like the newest darling and everybody but he loves them. And why wouldn't you the way he plays Lebron okay. Lebron is all over the map with how people feel about him but I also get it. He's now gotten to the point in his career where it's like. Wow he's in your seventeen and he's still doing this back. The Lakers in jail them look like a highlight factory. Yes they're playing definitely helps. Anthony Davis I think is getting off As a villain I mean he just you know requested a trade to get away from New Orleans. They gave up a ton but since they're playing so well and since it looks like a perfect fit he's getting a pass on had a part of this like now that is like almost common like probably at Colli leaving or Paul George wanting to get out and join quiet and doing this like it's like that. Maybe when someone did that in the passionate wow what how the hell can you turn your back on a franchise and now it's like commonplace. It's like I mean everybody thinks mediums. Yeah everybody changes team Um and if anything people are more like that organization really dropped the ball with you get out of there. Go help your chance of winning rings part of it but I think Kyri has been villainous as well. That's a good one in the nets underperforming when Cari plays they tend to not play play as well when he sits they. I know that the even data a little bit but for his first six point six nine when he was sitting out and then he comes back and he says those things calling at his teammates. So he's kind of taken on that role Joel embiid. He was turning villainous these. He's also being given a bit of a pass too. I think or the his reputation has just improved a little bit in the in the villain area I was teetering on the edge. I think he could see him easily becoming a villain if the sixers xers were to get to the playoffs and they flame out again. I think that that's the way that he can become a villain. They're like come on man now. You can't ever stay healthy. You're all just talking trash. Take the game more seriously. That will be the the knocks on embiid. If the if the sixers fall short again I think Joel Embiid and Ben Simmons could be an awesome villain duo if they really leaned into it. Would it'd be awesome. I in fact I'd like to see it because there's so much talk. Obviously about the sixers always like will those two. Will they be able to work those Stars they need to have their own teams. I would just like if they like like hated. Everybody like in bond together over. Everybody always saying this stuff but it probably won't happen very could be a bit like the new age outlaws embiid would be The Road Road Dogg Jesse James the mouthpiece four and then Ben Simmons is Mr Ass. Billy Gunn looking cool out there or they could be Kobe and check and split blitz. One could be the true. Yeah yeah that's right. Yeah good question we need more villains right next one. Quick Q.. Is Lonzo so ball. Good player seems like some people love him and thinks think he's a generational talent in terms of passing other such as myself think he's just an above average player. Thanks that's from Jack. In Gwinnett Lonzo Ball. Is he good player. Yes yes but he's still got a lot of work to do. He's going to become more consistent. I think mainly with the show I think the shot sort of dictates a lot of his game for the rest of the way the replies you see sometimes he catches at both steps into a shot knocks down like Oh my God. He's on the move you see other times. He's wide open and it's like he's never shot a ball and his life before. Yeah Yeah. Yeah and that's you know. I picked him as most improved this season and he's not going to win it. He's been okay at times but there's the games where you're watch him. It's like he looks lost he definitely is a feast or famine type of Guy I think and if he can iron that out a little bit and become come more consistent I think he will be You know around the League for a long time shouldn't thirty-five percent on threes. Take six game making to a game. That's pretty good. I think the bigger concern concerned that he shoots fifty two percent from the foul line. He only takes one free. Throw a game and that to me seems like I don't WanNa have to go to the free throw line because I'll probably miss him. And that really really limit limits your effectiveness if you're not gonNA take basically any shot inside the lane you know Lonzo's numbers I kind of feel like we'll never be super extravagant. Grab again. Because he's a next pass guy like he's making the past that turns into the past so that hurts. His usage percentage that hurts his assist numbers. But it's good for the team for me has ceiling is probably like maybe he'd made one all star game in a few all defensive teams because he's a really good defensive player and maybe there's a season where he figures out his free throws. Listen he's a little more aggressive going into the room that kind of thing But you know now that. He's away from the Lakers hype machine at definitely doesn't feel like they're going to be hanging his banner up in any arena arena. Yeah he's averaging fifteen eight since Christmas and you said the three point shot is falling for him here recently. I think one thing to remember is only twenty twenty two in its third year and he's had injuries basically every year he's been in the league and a big part of this little run that he's gone on is is health is sort of bounced back a little bit. So Yeah Yeah. I don't know I hadn't really thought about it. In terms like how many all stars does a guy like Lonzo make You know you say you've put it out one and a half the over under M. Maybe I do go the end. I'm not sure but he's is going to be. He is a good player and he's an above average player. I think what just happened was there was hope because of his father was because he was in la. The idea idea that he was going to be a superstar right away. And there's a lot of the happens. There was too much hype. Yeah yeah he was drafted second man. It was just a hype machine around him no doubt and because because Magic said Your Jersey is going to be hanging there so yeah. It's he's a as Jack said slightly above average player right now and that's WPRO that's accurate and this is like you said about the injuries He's played two seasons in the NBA says year three those first two seasons. We're like half a season each season so I'm GonNa make the dumb sort of Certian and say this is kind of like your two for him. So he's he's okay he's he's improved shot and those those numbers that trace vote shooting getting over six threes game and shooting at League average percentage wise. That's pretty good for a guy who quote unquote couldn't shoot. I I think that's a very good start. And he's a he's a playmaker and yeah yeah as numbers never gonNA jump up but those numbers are good. Kenny be Jason Kidd and Jason Kidd. Obviously famer making ten all star Games nine all defensive teams and you know he was on a bad team begins career and started slow and then got. I don't know I don't think he's GonNa. He's not going to get to that level but I I don't I don't see that for what reason he's not a good enough shooter and I think the normal kid Jason Kidd shot seventy percent from the free throw line while the free throw line. Okay I I can't come back with anything that is I mean. That's that's a huge. It's a huge deal. If you'RE NOT GONNA WANNA get head inside and if you're not gonNA WANNA go to the free throw line. It's hard to be a a super efficient player if you're shooting only then league average from three league average from three is fine. If you're shooting league average from the free throw line as well go under hand-dug go underhand is. It's not looking good. If you're in one out of every two you're you're better from deep or no I guess he's not better deficiency but percent lip your average wise. You WanNa see the granny shot Rick Perry style. WHY NOT STU? It happened to own a walk. Yeah he was doing it and he was having. Some success was with the next one here. Sub Dinky Demartin Rosen's dunk on Chris. Boucher is getting a lot of dunk of the season hype in real time. It was clearly great duck but I thought people were overreacting and in slow motion. It's clear Rosen. dunks the ball in the hoop before Boucher even made contact with them. Ouch rough assertion. I there was a great dunk. There have been numerous better dunks this season. For example Lebron deletes a sacred Doumbia on Tristan Thompson. And Yannis on the State of Indiana. That I said what is the one play for. Maybe history that you think is vastly overrated. Turn up lovey guys awesome. That's from James in Newcastle England. This question overseas overseas meals a day most overrated play an MBA history. All right I got one sorry trae. MJ's game winning jumper in game six of the ninety eight finals. I wrote that down to a couple of reasons reasons. Why Hurley I send Senate in Double Team Jerry Jones Michael Jordan? All right getting out of his hands at least let a new John Packs. Try and beat you. MJ pushes off Byron Karen Russell a little bit now. Russell also really slips on the play. That's the other part there is a little push but it's really a slip from Russell leaves during wide open and he knocks it down just still had five seconds left to possibly win this game and the best they could drop was contested. John Stockton three pointer. It was like a bunch of embodies at the top. You had time to get a better look than that. It was only game six. You know the Bulls lose they do finally have MJ game seven and they have it at home and and finally the biggest reason is that didn't end up being Jordan's final shot to his career. No I hate to tell you trade. But he ended up common back three years later and plane for some team in in Washington Wizards. So that I've seen and that's the reasons I go with it. But this was hilarious question. I'm obviously tongue-in-cheek. Goes a little bit on it with stuff. Yeah I wrote down because it doesn't happen if Jordan doesn't get the steel at the other end so it's overrated because the defenses under the. There's an awesome steel. You you never see that you never see that part of the play and they don't call timeout love that and they just come down. Yeah they were there waiting for Crumlin to get the ball in the post and I was just Crumlin. Had a chance to to seal that thing and Didn't happen hilarious. Didn't deliver Karl Malone can't believe it to me. It sounds like you're just making the case for Jerry. Sloan number. One coach of the year went to Carl Malone down the stretch didn't send a double team didn't have a play call ready at all adds up to me. If you were going to pick an and overrated Michael Jordan play the switch hands lap is a good one. He says he says he thought somebody WHO's going to jump up to try and block it. Nobody jumps so just a cool little flip for no reason It looks awesome. I'm in slow Mo and when it happens like in the course of the game and you see it. You're like okay nice lead then Marcel. He says it's the long long arms of Sam Perkins. What was coming forward? It is funny. How often you actually see a similar to that now where someone does switch and it's like oh it's the Jordan and it's like maybe maybe it wasn't actually that takes? It was in the in the moment they really. What do you have? Well come on. Don't be afraid plus your little foot damn close up This this dunk was a good dunk. But it's overrated. How he dunks on people apple as John's docks against the Bulls? Okay he doesn't really dunk on anybody. Because Patrick Ewing sits pick on PJ Armstrong and he's GonNa Clean in run to the hoop and then horse comes over and Jordan comes. I've alight but by the time they come he's already dumped it. It's just more that the moment the time of the game and you know it's a left handed dunk like that athletically athletically. It's fine but it's like dunks on the Bulls and it's like he dons on defense kind of comes like and if you look at it on Youtube or something. It's John Starks starks dunked on Michael Jordan which you know Horace Grant. At least it's close at least horses. They're challenging but you're right Jordan just like a second after starting the picture of it. It looks like they're both right there at the perfect yet. It looks like it looks like stocks is just sort of jumped out of nowhere and slammed I've at like two or three guys but he gets a pretty much John contested drive and then the defense comes but but it's the left handedness. That's what is in the legs go in New York City. It's the playoffs you know so. It's got that sort of historical moment. Arm and went stocks dumped on the Bulls but they of course never paid also didn't really count for anything. I Yeah also thinking about picking Ray Allen Shot from game six twenty thirteen because I mean just right place right time honestly. That's what the degree of difficulty all these like. Nothing yeah that's what the side says. You can put any three pointer into that side to tell you the answer into that the next one here. What do Dinky Linke's one? I was delighted to find out that you guys named May Tenth National Wedgie Day on May tenth two thousand eight my wedding day. I had a Wedgie for about a full hour while the wedding ceremony took place place and I couldn't dig it out because about one hundred and fifty people were looking directly at my buttocks survived it and came out a stronger man ready ready for the challenges of married life. If you could have a day named after a traumatizing or life changing event in your life what would it be and what would you name it. That's from Mickey. Be In south Florida. Who wants it? I might twelfth birthday I got I got by DOC DOC birthday birthday. I'm just going barking so that I would I would designate. I think it was a bad February. Twenty five or six trapped windy twenty five or twenty six so you would call call it let it fly day one. Can No one can get upset with you for fighting on that day. Just got to let them out. How is the thing? Yeah sounds like you got one. I just wish I knew the first time that I really sprained my ankle. 'cause that's me is the day it was all over forever being able to jump or do anything with any sort of quickness Landed on foot and I wish I knew. I wish I knew that that was the last time I would feel like an athlete again. Tragic current athletes. Everybody's if you have a body you're an athlete Thursday motion is a medicine movement as medicine as well. Yeah which is you know. It's it's better when you can actually feel like you. Use Your whole-body how I recently attended a Rio. Grande Valley Vipers Jelly game and thought of a new challenge getting on the Jumbotron at all G. G league arenas but seriously here's my question that involves the G. League. When I attended the vipers game the Mascot Fang performed only what I could characterize characterize as a magic mike style lap dance for Fan while the fans sat in a pool? floaty chair with that backstory in mind which mascot would would you not want to receive a lap dance from. That's from Josh in Clutch City baby as he writes of look it up this mascot right. Now it's getting a little sexy talk. Yeah it's the snake with banks. Thanks no honors name. He's got the tongue hanging. Got Some pretty Bulgy eyes huge boots. This guy's got enormous booty does snakes. Don't even have legs was sneaking my boots okay. I love this thing now looking at Fang. This is the exact kind kind of mascot I do not want to let lap dance from the only lap dance I would want from a mascot is like one of the big bottom genre like Bernie clutch the bear. The one that has like a human human lower-half no thank you though worse definitely not lucky. My answer was a yeah. I thought it was lucky. Larry Lucky the best. It's just a dude in a in a hat achieve. I don't want that or mavs. Man is the same with basketball skin. Oh yeah that was the worst. Actually you're saying like Clutch Bernie stuff like that. Yeah that wobbly blay bottom. Bottom bottom beauties got triangle shaped mascot whatever those are the Stanford tree that'd be a great one. Yeah LE- what's the big baby cake. That's the secondary mascot around Mardi gras someone with that. We'd looking looking face you wouldn't want coming up to Back on and it's a baby. Yeah it's just super super weird. It'd be rather awkward is an uncomfortable I think. But like where's the diaper Davor. The whole time. Anything with a tail like the raptured not ideal deal. That's fine. It's better than a man I think but Hugo the Hornet also years getting stung. That's a Stinger directly. Likely coming down on you hurt the thing with the Raptor Harry. The Hawk is. They always do that joke. Where they're sitting on your lap and then put you in their beak or their mouth? Yeah imagine just how many different heads had in there. I think it'd be pretty disgusting when they do that. Harry the Hawk does that move all the time it always looks funny because he's got that real floppy bbb like when he Like I don't know how you describe it but he like pulls it sideways. Ed closes mouth in a weird way. But that's a good point. Do they clean those like After every game no way I'm just have multiple. I'd say that's probably got Tan. Also ten Harry. The hawks costumes costumes. Mascot Costs Hills. You know I'd be shocked if there's more than three well just sweaty that getting those things I like but those are also very expensive. But I think it'd be difficult to clean. They might be yeah lies off. Well Lysol imagine a fan in the front row pulled out his Hankie to blow lowest knows and then Harry. The Hawk starts eating that heads. That'd be a great way to save. Harry would actually do it and you say hang on a minute roll all right. Go for it. But he doesn't tons of kid area. Germs left well hockey. WAS EATING MY Dome I. It was an endgame promotion for the most part. We agree that it's lucky lubricant or mavs man or something like that. The human lower by just grinding on yet the game next one dear Dinger's bangers in the light of Vince Carter playing in four different decades. I was wondering who do you think could go just as long from the latest couple of drafts that's from KC see in Latvia. Wow I can't remember having an email from Lafayette I could be wrong but there I apologize for comparing kristaps hundred today. Show Casey you think if you're looking at the last three drafts. Let's say or something like that. Yeah well I think that's. That's that's what's important is when you get drafted and so I think it has already in these third and could easily make his. Fourth is D'Amato Rosen. He was drafted in two thousand nine. So he gets that. Oh I see what you're saying you're actually looking at it like the pure four decades. Yeah Yeah you're not even just worried about playing twenty years because that's what you have to trim a couple there but derozen. He's only thirty right now. He takes great care. He's never had a major injury. I could see so you never put his his head by a mascot. No I mean I could see him. In ten years time he'd be forty. I can still see him sitting on the bench somewhere. That's not a bad pick. I hadn't really thought about the cross the deck. I didn't say anything. I took Luca from Latvia but from Lithuania. H- you you know. Oh My god Slovenia. Geez all he'd be forty at the beginning at twenty forty when he accomplishes this feat and he may be trying to pass some of the all time scoring leaders at the top going for for it. He's been playing professionally since he was a young boy since he was a child so he knows knows nothing else. He knows how to work hard and get their Jerry West said. Luca's going to be better than Dirk Dirk played twenty. One seasons. Twenty forty would be Lucas twenty seconds season so he has to play twenty two years. He could do it. I guess. I got tatum same sort of thing. He's a guy that was star. Talent Vince Carter had when he was young he can already shoot three and he just seems like a nice guy which I think has definitely helped Vince. Stick around like who doesn't want Vince Carter on their team. At this point you need somebody who are beautiful smile. Fun Question Casey. What up no junks? I'm a medical student here in the Philippines and I gotta say your podcast gives my my duty days life when I have idle moments no matter if I'm in the hospital on the road or wherever I just put a downloaded episode on and I'm good. Your podcast is the best this podcast in the world. But I'm sure every one of US fans are thinking. Is there a chance we can ever see you guys again on. TV or on Youtube. At least audio's great now but I really miss the dynamics guys bring to video medium like the very solid play. The best top China's sports wedgies all those graphics you guys come up with etc I know so it takes a lot of money to produce a video but just tell us which petition to sign. We'll get you back on those screens will be there embrace the Beach People Liam. MVP JD. Why don't you take this one? Well I mean last night. I was relatively confident that we would get a show on Youtube and this morning. I'm less confident incident because that is exactly what we're trying to do that at this moment We got a bunch of gear. Thank you to everybody. WHO BOUGHT A T shirt? Because that's who paid for it and that's a petition you signed by the way if you want to see a video by a t shirt right right yeah. We're we'll get there. What's the hold up? Well set up all the equipment. Now sack Nicole problem. Okay okay. So we're started. I Miss I'm. I'm the director producer Sir. It person and I don't know how to do any of those jobs so it's hard Oh yes there was. Your New Year's resolution was not us us to get the to get no dunk. Too Bad still January. Oh goodness tricycle. He's Turner Anymore. I will also. We should mitigate people's expectations because I don't think we're GONNA be doing it top ten at least to start off at least to start on. The first thing thing is to for whatever reason still perplexes me a little bit. But I'm old but people like to watch a podcast on YouTube. That's obviously a very popular thing. That's where we're like starting with. Yeah get those cameras up see reactions. You WanNa see. Leila's dropped the lid on his computer and then cough up along you're going to hopefully be able to see but yeah you're right maybe not Not right away. At least it's the best top ten in sports and stuff like that maybe down the line. Yep richest people just listen on you to people. Do that sometimes. MM So listen to music on Youtube which is really weird. I don't really but occasionally account streams now and the billboard hot one hundred charts. Isn't that what Bieber was basically telling everybody it's right just fired up and put it on. Don't Mute it just turn the volume down play. They know when you Mute Leo Skinny Come Buju sponsorship Authorship Youtube Star off gotta pay for this equipment so t shirts and Capuchin. Let's do it go to Docs dot com merchandise to help us get on youtube a couple more here. Hey No drinkers late last week. Kendrick Perkins Arkins told Kevin Durant that. He has a hard time sleeping at night knowing that he took the coward way to get his rings. What something that you think keeps your no dunks colleagues league's up at night for instance think that Lee has trouble sleeping at night knowing that he still hasn't reached twenty points in the three point shootout? Don't you worry though Li I feel that this is is your year. That's from Vlade flawed. Maybe from Cyprus Vlade I guess from Cyprus Cyprus goodness where these wild we're pit bull over here. So what do you think about a lot saying. Does that keep you up at night. No My Kids Yeah. Nothing really basketball related keeps me keeps me up. What's that what is that? We've missed now. I think I was going to be the WTO boy for. Yeah that's what I couldn't care because I've noticed the now you you know. You Always WanNa put the honorable. Mentions in there because you know this morning. There's only one game on. What did you say here? Let me find it. Said gets cowboy Luca neely spell it off but you're you're factually wrong last year. I used to do a lot more honorable mention to this guy. This guy this. I'm not saying I don't do it at all but I do it much less now. I think you you do to try to cover. The hate is out there which you kind of you kind of get on top of the world we hate is starting to give me life. Great Way to start the day I decided on a completely arbitrary winner of something. That doesn't mean anything people get upset. And it's like I. Have you ever had a team fire play like retweeted or anything like that. No no that's true. I do try on twitter. I think teams have before liked it at the very least pretty. Sure like your sons or your jazz have before and least liked it. I don't know if a player has I keep my eye on that. They're all about the individual statistics. If that's the case trying to catch the yeah this is a this. Is a Predator vibe. Here with catch us that pattern exactly actually reminded me of An email we got Lee j Diese resolution reminded me that somebody asked. Have you been reading the IPC report from Greta Thune Berg. Ah Your New Year's resolution was to read a report and understand it. Yeah no I've downloaded. It's like eight hundred pages long and it's not. It's not like a novel you just picked up before. Yeah I should I should. I mean Yeah I've got I've got to get it printed off. That's holding. Yeah that's got to be the first page. Do not best climate change do not. But that's that's the thing about it but it's not like something that you can just pick up a book. I mean there's all sorts of different. You know like Tau Chapter Heading for sure. This I started reading the I got like a media or you know and I'm like Oh my God this is going going to be impossible to get through but did you guys see are easily treated for me. Did you guys see going around. This week I don't know who it was someone on twitter. Some just person takes very very large books. Like let's say infinite jest and cuts the book in half easier to travel and it's easier travel with and then people are like what are you doing and other people are like. Wow that's actually really smart. I thought it looked cool. You have just one copy the infant one copy just it is easier to try. I hate reading a gigantic book. Like it's a pain in the ASS. The travel with even even read. I have a little Chris I could barely hold the book up. Kids stand it so I. If it's your book I mean Yeah. Don't do it for the library. I just found out a good seventy percent still go to the library. What let me get like? I'm done with over knees. Fax My God move Rudy says. Pull that a good. Seventy percent of people have gone to the library to to borrow a book or Barrow. A book split in the book but don't print out so eight hundred seventy four pages. What percent is sixty five hundred thousand? Easily Yeah I mean that would just yeah. I don't know it doesn't bode well because I've heard you complain. That like An article about a week of basketball ascot ball is too long. It's like two thousand words like that. Yeah I mean listen like any. TV Show or movie or song. It's got to get you in that. I like ten second and this report is but I need to print that and then I need to break it up by the section. Yeah o-on ooh sections because it's it's it's complicated man. That's why you were talking about it in the first place you like. This is not located. And that's why I can't skim through it. I want to read it and absorb it. And that's like it's GonNa take some rereading at times and you know so start. The all you need to do is start on now. Neither imprinted though I need to like reading blowing things off the computer I have in my hand. Read it page it. You can knock things down soot little. That's what I'm saying. It's no good reading looking at the words. And you re this part I have read. I ask in an action plan creating barriers for you to do this. Never doing yeah it does they would have something that keeps them up at night. Do you sleep peacefully. I don't even remember the last time I had a dream. That's how peacefully I sleep. I'm just go to sleep pure blackout mode up six hours later. Ready to rock. That's good I think it's me you need. Rem probably in this office that we work in. There's plenty of psychologist and psychotherapist. Apparently that work in these always gotta get them in here for a podcast for them to ask this question. Jd how you sleep not great. I mean this setting up. This video has kept me up at night one hundred percent. GED So it's not that important and it's much more important than the reading the environment around us read it to me JD. My okay well this I mary the to get the Youtube going to do a super long livestream where it's just leave eating commenting on the report. The only people with to see a long you could last picking path right. This report consists of a short summary. Maria full policymakers a technical summary seven chapters annexes as well as online chapped supplementary material. Doing Great Chapter One provides a synopsis. The main issues addressed in the report which are exploring more detailing chapters two through seven seven introduces important concepts and definitions highlights discrepancies with previous reports that arise from different objected. A man I read the old ones now to know what the discrepancies I took a business said. Hey just read chapter one. You're good yeah exactly gotta read this analysis. Read the subheadings. You got the gist inflate. Probably Twenty five words. You're good again next one. You Hey finger rollers I am so pumped for survivor. Forty wieners at war. I'm curious who you will be cheering for and or WHO. You will think we'll win. I'll be cheering for you'll Tony's Parvathi cut already but in reality I think a player with less fame like Mike Kelly Michelle or a damn at his a more likely winner from Dr Dave in cal- Gerry but from to run to okay so chewing for survivor forty winters at war. Great Time to get in. Yes alternate time to get in. Yes this is all winners. We are at season forty forty of survivor. Twenty years is in them doing to basically seasons a year and we finally have what everybody is wanted for a long time just winners which is awesome. I am personally cheering hiring for you'll was huge. You'll fan at the time. He played a longtime us back and sees a thirteen. Yeah see I don't know you'll I didn't he's I god. GD Petr Kane and Yeah I'm I loved it. It was awesome winter. He Battled Ozzie he just beat them at the end and and I think he's got a good chance go far too because he is one of the older sort of winners that have come back to this year and he's probably be lying low a little bit so that might help us chances you ooh that soldier boy for sure You know what kind of weird though isn't it. What bringing winners back? 'cause isn't part of the fun of just seeing people in the first time. Not Knowing how to handle things like these are all pros. Yes yes but the counter to that is it's sort of cool seeing people that have already played and have an understanding of the game. Go at it a second second third sometimes fourth. Hell in Boston case. I think this is fifth time So yeah you're right. It was an interesting watching Boston. Robin in two three and four the second third and fourth go about two different. I wish he was on every season. I love the guy. They brought him back. This season. Just sitting out in the jungle Sandra and he was the best part of the episode. Every time humans. Sandra yeah this is going to be I'm actually super excited for this. I think we are up at night. This yeah yeah what they're gonNa do to and we always joe task though. This is the perfect time to get in. But would they are gonNA do. I've heard is when it starts in a couple of weeks the first episode the week before for that on CBS. They're going to have like an hour long episode. Basically catching you up on guys. You know our winters or women. You don't know that have won before so it's like a back story story like how they've gotten to this point. I think that'd be perfect for someone brand new to the show it'd be like Oh this is This is Tony Story. He was crazy or this. Is Poverty Story Arc within the series. Like she's been on a cool time so maybe get him in. We can have a nice little Powell survivor every Thursday morning. You're going to be having it regardless it's a matter of. Do you want to know what these names mean. Do you want to know that Wendell sells furniture. I'll be room for Wendell. Maybe I'll buy a chair if he does really well. Let's Dunkirk another win. Get Chair in the house. I like him. I also like Kim Kim Spradlin. She's really something she was. One of the greatest of all time dominated her seasons got judy. I'm I'm rooting for Natalie. Sri Lankan probably the most foul mouth contestant ever. I don't remember anyone getting leapt as much as Shida Sandra's got a pretty center. Yeah but yeah and Sandra I would actually I would love to is. He a three peat would be she is diabolical and it's GonNa be a joy to watch her just reek havoc. Oh I blah. So many of these people they're bringing back Tyson. Love Love Jason Tony of course is great. This is going to be so much fun. Who wants survive voted out very I? It's tough that's a tough one. Your least liked player. I don't know I want them all the win. You Know Yeah Ed to oversee twenty twenty I would like Tony Gophers wild. Why does the marinating Tonio Nick Get Outta here survivor? Forty starts so soon. Now we're not sponsors guys. Think so much for your emails keep going no dunks at the athletic addict. DARCOM tweet him in at Ducks Inc.. Hashtag no-dong Santa. Thanks as always for joining us. You Stay Eh. It's been so long talk

Youtube Lebron James Miami Lakers raptors NBA sixers Chris Paul Toronto Basketball Luca clippers REP Donovan Mitchell Bulls Los Angeles Celtics Russell Westbrook Vince Carter Carter Julia
20VC: Calm Founder Alex Tew on What It Takes To Build Viral Products Today, The Current State of Customer Acquisition Costs, What Makes The Best Brands

The Twenty Minute VC

35:36 min | 2 months ago

20VC: Calm Founder Alex Tew on What It Takes To Build Viral Products Today, The Current State of Customer Acquisition Costs, What Makes The Best Brands

"We are back on the twenty minutes with me. Harry stubbings and they show is what I really wanted to do for a long time for anyone that knows me they know I'm the biggest geek on customer acquisition costs and virology, and our guest today has been held is one of the best in the world for can var honesty. So I'm thrilled to welcome Alex Chu co-founder, Cassia, calm the number one for meditation and sleep allowing you to find your com sleep more stress less live better today the company's ready to save one hundred and forty, three million dollars in financing from some. Of the best including light speed insight. TB. And then some break cool names including Ashton coach, Harry styles, brand and Jason Kao counties crazy calm new also founded numerous startups including pop jam Pixel also, and most famously rose to internet fame with his founding of the million dollar homepage. I do need say Houston Honest Co founder Michael acton Smith some fantastic questions gestures and perhaps date Michael. I really appreciate that. But before we dive into show day I'm sure you've heard me talk about it before but I love Carson Carta simplifies startups, investors manage accuracy track com tables, and get on the. Go to card dot com slash to`serve to get temps off more than eight, hundred, thousand employees and shareholders. He's Carter to manage hundreds of billions of dollars in equity and Cardinal Office Fund Administration. So you can see real time data in the call to platform and what with causes team of experienced accountants as I said head over to car dot com forward slash two zero VC to get ten percent off and speaking with transformational podlike color that two thousand and twenty has been a year full of unexpected changes. But one thing this remained very constant. The most important part of a company is it's people in a world with distributed workforce's. Important than to align engaging develop employees, and that's why lattice comes in. lattice is rated the number one people management platform by real users to help companies develop engaged in high performing teams fan because Lanka's trusted. Now by a two thousand companies like read it slack and Post Maze, you can trust lines to build a high performing culture companies. You leverage the platform improvements in retention engagement and productivity, and lots of the only solution that can ask performance management, employee management, and now. With the launch of brand new lattice grow career development in one unified platform for people strategy, all remain teams, the supporters we will navigate to find on new. Over lattice dot com slash two zero. To find out more and do you ever wish that you in some of the best performing IPO's of two thousand and nineteen in two, thousand, twenty, all crowd investors were now you can join them in Moore's next with our crowd accredited investors emma access to invest directly easily most importantly early, all crowd investments. Like be beyond, meet all been bought by companies like Intel. Nike. Microsoft and Oracle today, you can join crowns investment in taxi. Asaf. West revolutionizing how leading enterprise companies provide remote customer support. You can get in early on taxi and other cheese are crown dot com slash to`serve e C. If you're interested in investing the account is free as I said, just go to all crown dot com forward slash two Zero v C. that's quite enough for me to embrace attend David to celebrate on a cheat code found in Cassia calm. You have now arrived at your destination Alex is such a do I've heard so many great things but it's from Jason Cal, Academy it's Mike Smith and Alexander will and what no one knows where I actually emailed you many many times in pretty much store shit out of you before this. So thank you so much for joining me today. Alex, I really appreciate it. Well, thank you, Harry, and thanks for the persistence. Finally on the show, that is very kind of you want to kick off with a little bit on needs to tell me, how did you make your way into the world of startups I Buy into the you had imbo extreme with Mike Alliance and tell me how you came up with the idea of calm while playing late night fever. Yes. So I mean my journey into entrepreneurship started at a very early age for some reason I always dreamt of being an entrepreneur and started i. kind of endeavors I think around the ages seven I started drawing comics and them at school very unprofitably has to be said, I'm not sure quality was like but yeah, I always dreamt of doing something creative doing something different starting at business of some kind and as a teenager growing up with sort of Internet, in its fledgling years in the Mid Ninety S I was just fascinated by the. Potential power of it and it was lucky enough actually to talk html in javascript and some other stuff in school in the Mid Ninety S, which was pretty cutting edge I think. Yeah. And then just started building different websites and try to make something of it. Then the COM story is very sort of long time in the making for me Michael. We've known each other for about fifteen years or so, and I had just done the million dollar homepage and Michael Houseboats in London and we became fast friends and ended up sharing a house in London Soho and would often play fever on the xbox and we sort of talking about different ideas that we had for businesses and Michael was working. On, marshy monsters at the time and I was working on a few different things calm was of those things that we started talking about the idea for me. It's sort of been on my mind really since the early two thousands I had started meditating probably around the age of fifteen also and really kind got into it in a pretty serious way and just sort of self discovery I was reading books I was interested in the mind those interested in psychology in general and self-improvements and meditation was the I. What I thought was legitimate self-improvement technique that I discovered when there's so much bs out there and even back then I was thinking, okay these books are great but most people are not. Going to read heavy textbook and most people will probably be turned off by the religious and spiritual overtones of meditation really had a PR problem for many years and wouldn't it be cool to be able to go to a website that would teach you how to meditate in a really simple accessible convenient way and that was the genesis of my mind. But when Michael Niwa playing fever, we were talking about comedy even kind of high level than just meditation. We were talking about this idea that wouldn't it be a good thing to bring a little calm into a very busy increasingly stressed out and anxious world that would be beautifully simple premise for a brandon for a company and that was kind. Of Calm for us and so meditation was like the first place we kind of started product teaching meditation making it accessible but we've also expanded from the now much more than just meditation. Impossible. billion-dollar Patriots. Barry Audio did you feel the weight of expectation on your shoulders from CICILLINE reveals to really move the needle next step and how did you deal with? That? Is something that I think about a lot with light moving from successful podcast like successful In a really meaningful way. Yeah. I think the miniature homepage was a fascinating experience to go through in the space of just a few months went from being unknown and broke sitting my parents bedroom to having some money and being known and having a lot of press and it was just a crazy crazy ride. But did come with a lot of expectation after that thinking, how can I follow that and I think that my thinking at the time got a little bit warped because I think the expectation I put on myself was greater than any other expectation thinking that I've got to do something bigger and better and pressure. Is Not, a great place from which to be creative and actually have useful insights I think at least not in that context and so subsequent years from after the middle homepage I really was trying to find my purpose and find something meaningful to work on and it was kind of funny that the most meaningful thing that I should be working on, which is calm something that I've been thinking about even before the millions of homepage and sometimes the ideas that we should be working on have actually been right in front of our face for a long time we just haven't seen it clearly and I think the middle homepage. Different. Path. where I was kind of more focused on success than I was on creating value, and then you discover later the few focus on creating value in the world success will follow wish you hadn't done. That sounds strange ridiculous. But looking back now, do you think it was like a distraction to you cool and you'll being nolato now I'm very grateful for that experience like there's every chance to not be still broken living in my parent's house at the middle homepage don't happened. I can see a direct path from that experience to everything's happening today and I'm so grateful for that. Experience and what happened with that taught me so much about the Internet power of simple ideas. It opened many doors in terms of people that admit Michael as direct result of the middle homepage got invited to a party and there, and so it was the most key turning point in my early career and yet super grateful for it. Listen I totally what a terrible question I do. Ending before because more and more these days I these schedules. Get from them kids things but I wanNA roll on I an. She thinks that vision can be very dangerous thing because it can constrain ones mentality as they could achieve and said a few kind of vision at the beginning of calm. The create the best amp to teach meditation bank could be a great vision. But actually what you've achieved in a shorter space of time could be so much bigger when you look at all the different products that you'll building now. I. Find Always Vision can constrain me because it doesn't take into account. exponential. How do you think about the importance division amaze short almost doesn't constrain you I. Think it's a good point. I think having a clear vision of what you're trying to do in the world. What problem trying to solve is important I think a better way framed I find is to think about what are the things that you believe true will be true for a long time in the case of calm what is not getting any less stressed or anxious and will have a mind and learning to take care of it is imperative. It's necessary to survive and thrive in this modern world. So we don't believe that's going to change anytime soon, and so that gives us a good sense. Calm is going to be useful and valuable to people in many decades to come, and so I think being pretty specific about those long term truth is key thing but being flexible on the details of how you achieve and I wouldn't have predicted started com that we would be in the business of reinventing bedtime stories and those would be super effective way of helping people get good. Sleep but that is something that is turn out to be great and so being flexible and experimenting I think is a key part of cheating the long term potential of an idea but obviously, things can come and surprise you and who knows where we'll go in the future. But I do know that there will be a lot of people still looking for help when it comes to the mental health I totally agree with that kind of cool underlying mission and I. You totally got the wrong Harry when you Harry cells cities reading but we`ll Go on is finally I'm just happy won't my voice anyway I do have to ask is what China before and we mentioned a couple of things especially on brand new highlights. Brands. But it was Silicon Valley Overlook said I did want to going to dig into this site from your perspective. What do you think the best brands do you fundamentally how do they message? How did they present? What is that kind of visual experience? The World? Yeah I think it kind of goes to the previous point I was making the you have to have a really clear purpose. Of. Clear reason for existing in the world, the best brands I think deliver on that promise that they figure out, they figure out what they're trying to do in the world and deliver, and when we were thinking about common the days we were really excited by this really singular clarity on purpose that we had four com could be. So I think that is the thing that people sometimes. I've looked they might start with an idea that is very much focused on like a product experience and then they build a company and eventually they might think about a brand and that's one way to do it and a lot of folks have success that way the other way to do it is to think about this fundamental core principles from the outset and exactly what we did with. Calm and it's interesting to think that in the long run brand is the primary interaction that the customer will have lifetime because the products will often change apples consistency or coca cola's consistency Nike's consistency is rooted in the values that they have and the kind of brand principles they follow even though the details may change in solar years and decades in between so I think that thinking about Brand is important and in Silicon Valley I think it's sort of looked as a fluffy and wavy thing. But kind of like a culture within a company. If you're not intentional about it, you'll just have accidentally and so if you're not intention about your brand, you will end up with a brand anyway because brands ultimately just symbols or shortcuts for people to help navigate complex world and I. Think when a company gets large enough really should put in some deep thought into what their brand is. Kanye's can tell us if Brian, I totally agree that do because we've seen the rise if found Lebron's specific fee as well and often found Lebron's even driving company brands in some respects Atlanta schools, false. How do you think about the rise of found Lebron's and what do? You think back means for the future moving forward in the power of Bryant He. I think it's a reflection on the power of social media and democratization of these distribution channels so that people could now be the primary product and I think it's phenomenal I. think it really depends on. Do you have something useful to say do you have something useful to put out in the world there? Are. Lots and lots of folks out there putting out similar kind of thinking and to have a unique take on the world is important part of building that brand personally I'm a little quieter on social media. I'm not quite sure how folks have time to do a lot of tweeting but somehow manage it in the cases you mentioned totally easy that he do twitter ghostwriters in some cases. It's an anti genuine demographic of Caribbean people to have these days, which is interesting can do all say his brand is one thing but it's going to emanate kind of customer acquisition in these various these defense from punch on the show and he said something that's we start with me. He said stay more than ever Harry as a fundamental lack of free and open distribution I'm really intrigued being kind of, as Michael. Genius that you are in terms of virology and customer acquisition, would you agree with him and how do you compare acquisition environments? Today bus is five to seven years we've experienced previously. Yeah. I'm not sure I totally agree with pieces common I think maybe the point he's getting out is that it is a lot more expensive to kind of take pot in the distribution channels facebook. Google. Obviously soak up the majority of dollars and you need to really kind of be certain is we'll have a set. Amount of capital to really be effective in the marketplace. But I don't necessarily think that it's free open I think that you can still leverage the mechanics that are available. Even if they are slightly more closed I've always thought that the best way to be viral is independent of any particular mechanic or channel actually rests with the idea self and if you have a powerful enough idea, people will find ways to share it. It doesn't necessarily matter the channels changed or the distribution mechanisms of being tweets. Over time, but it for sure is more competitive and expensive to compete on the kind of paid acquisition side. We've seen that with nearly as it was much cheaper to customers, and then as we scale up, it comes more expensive. How do you think about the right ratio of paid tool ganic? It's a big one that I always think. Well, I mean the rights ratio depends tickly on your business, and if you're one hundred percent pays but your inefficient in spend, then you probably change that ratio. I think having a healthy mix of paid ganic is great. You know it's very rare that business will be hundred percent organic. I can only think of a few examples particularly of the businesses that have network effects that are truly organic in nature. But yeah, I think it very much depends on the business but indicates com we have a really healthy Mexican kind of compared. But most important thing is to have acquisition that is efficient and profitable, and on a reasonable time line, you can have one of. Those businesses that is largely then more power to you. Can I be really annoying digging now I'm always kinda and snowy thinking through could payback looks like and then I spent a little time bottoms up science and sometimes differs especially when you compare heavy enterprise stuff I also do in your mind and consumer product like com how do you think about what good payback periods ought to you? Yeah I think it still depends on the business itself like what kind of cash position that you're in what? Payback period, you can afford oversee the shorter. The I think wants to. Yours is fantastic in terms of getting that for payback, but you can get it shorter than wonderful. Do you think that's enough I at banning like once he is quite long like if you find your insurance options like on a consumer subscription business journalism students would be relatively handley I'd be concerned but once two years yeah I mean it depends on obviously you're tension things and so if you've got high churn and new you. Have a bigger problem in it depends on how much cash and bank whether you're free cash flowing whether you burning a lot of cash. So it really depends on the situation that you're in but some businesses have really long three or four years, which is kind of a little bit insane. It's very hard to predict how things are going to be that long but wanted to years doesn't seem unfathomable. I think particularly as you business matures in your sort better, predict your revenue trains and things i. Do agree the of that you mentioned kind of having the great idea itself and kind of being independent more powerful Michael before the show Mike Smith is an anti played me Mushy mushy mushy which was wonderful creation. By the way I enjoyed a loss I have to us. It's super interesting a little bit that how do you think about how to make your product viral and it has very generic strange but you just have to how do you think about how to make products get viral? A few different ways of thinking about it in my experience has been mostly in making things go viral right to the start as opposed to building a viral business like facebook or networks effects kind of business and I. Think there are a few different ways to do it. I think the main thing you have to figure out a way of cutting through the noise and capturing the Zeitgeist if you like. So few examples middle homepage I think was a good example of that it. Was Sort of a very bold and kind of crazy idea that this kid would make a million dollars out of thin air because it got attention at that became true. That was a simple sloppy quirky will very quickly idea and so the quirky the better I always find I think more recently pre calm when we thinking about the business but we haven't quite launched traded web page could do nothing for two minutes, and this is actually how Congress, first hundred thousand uses basically the. Page had a picture of sunsets and a countdown from two minutes to zero, and if you move the mouse or keyboard basically reset to and said, try get and it was a challenge to the wall to see if you could sit still and do nothing just for two minutes and it went viral on twitter just happened to be twitted that see that it's on with a very simple taxation I just did nothing for two minutes can you question and then a link to the? Sites and it hit a nerve and I think that's mostly what doing something that goes viral is about it's about hitting earth in some way, and that can be reflecting the world back to people in a kind of fun quirky way or it could be capturing particular moments in time with respect to a news item or some other kind of pop culture things going on and it's not easy though I think the examples that I have in my career of going viral equally met by. Things not going viral and things not taking off and so part of it is just trying different things again, kind of just experimenting and over time I think you get a sort of instinct and you developing might capture people's attention. Can I count on? Does it take to know something's going borrowed? Is it like instantaneously put out new like I always wondered when the? Situation pivoting how long enough to have enough data to make decisions on whether to whole weather to continue yet from my experience, it has to be pretty much instantaneous. Otherwise, the ingredients are not rights and within a couple of days I think otherwise you just kind of go back to the drawing board and it may be that you've got one or two ingredients wrong. Every detail matters I think when you're trying to make something go viral all. Just, the fundamental core premises is not going to gain traction. So that's one of the exciting things you can try things quickly, and you'll know quickly you don't have to wait around for a long time and these days with social media things will go viral in even foster time and even greater scale than ever before. So I think five, the million page today I think it would have been completed within two weeks rather than four months potentially. Such kind of creative ideas, much challenges, owners, the we both have meetings, teams, a lot of responsibilities I didn't find myself having Haiman freedom to be like, Hey, this would be great. Fun Project. Welcome could acquire ten thousand news is through this Kuni music video whatever that is, do you set deliberate time aside for creative source for projects like this or does it just happen naturally I? Think you kind of need to make time as you become busier and earlier on in my life and physio had small teams whatever it was much easier to kind of daydream into sort of your nation, and now you've been sort of back to back soon calls all day. There's not. Much room left for coming up with crazy ideas, for us, requisition. But that being said, if you're diligent about carving out time, then you can hopefully come up with things. But then the one downside with time is that you're putting his under pressure and I do think sometimes pressure can be the enemy of creativity and sometimes the best ideas we'll just pop out of nowhere I find actually these days. The best ideas will happen if I'm on vacation or doing something where I'm just really not thinking about the day today in the office, how do you think about idea sharing might feedback gathering because you can say Michael Hey after this is Aaron everyone perceive this get? A terrible idea and you can kind of revert consensus in revert to the mean and what's kind of reasonable one. which probably often is the out of the Blue Can Enviro idea? How do you think about kind of getting that input without reversing consensus? Ya think the Russians who you bouncing ideas off if you're doing it with a huge group and you don't have a huge conviction in your ideas south than maybe you will sort of revert consensus they don't particularly take to it, but if you have a lot of belief in the idea. And reflected a couple people see how they respond but still have a lot of conviction. Then you go for it if I had listened to various people the way then come wouldn't exist, and sometimes you really just have to follow your intuition and conviction something but yet Michael's brilliant and so I will always seek his counsel idea. You mentioned that if you listen to people, you know it would have been very different story homes been such a category recreation play consumer nation play. It is fundamentally different to solving the existing consumer need. What would you give to found who are embracing engaging fundamentally crazy narran category and really setting out to educate a generation of consumers. Yeah. I think the main thing I would say would be to ignore anything shorter and ignore the critics and the folks who tell you the idea is not a good one. And really follow your own conviction because if you have that conviction if it strong, you should be able to do that. You should be able to easily focused on the web that needs to be done and not focused on critics. Now, I, think the details of subject to inquiry and debate and things. But again, if you have a core premise if your ideas deep roots, then you can kind of weather short-term criticism and hopefully be proved right in the long run. Can I ask it's been a competitive market since? With many different capacity how do you think the right way to think about competition and been some experiences? Barron towns whether to row your own race would actually be cognizant of around I. Think you can do both I think it's very important to really focus on building your own company during products and having your strategy and having your own ideas and being creative thoughts. It's always good to keep an eye out on what's going on in the marketplace but not get caught up in it and not worry too much. About the competition with com, it's become a very competitive space in recent years and we're just laser focused on what we want to do and what we have in mind for the future the problem with competing one one and only looking at one of the competitors are doing is that sort of obsessing about the output, the replicate going internally have an idea of what they might be doing internally, but you can't replicate that DNA and ultimately company should just trying to be the best it can be as opposed to. Trying to imitate their times when it makes sense to copy certain stretch diesel things but you would be better off being the instigator of the strategies and ideas that been the second in the race totaling with with the best you can be cannot if you apply to yourself, Komo's by no means the festival Friday by the fee and in terms of leadership styles, I'm really interested count basie no south changing evolve as leader over the last decade really been those big transitions fear. Yeah. I think in the early days. Yards very used to doing everything myself basically working on projects on my own bedroom doing every aspect of it, and so one of the things that I've learned over the years is the importance of building a team in hiring people, and you ultimately realized that the folks you are going to build the product and build the company and really is the number. One job is to actually build that team. So that was a shift for me learning about the art of recruiting and the portent supporting a great team and. Not Compromising on building that team because you know that they are going to build the products and build the company ultimately, and so you having been an entrepreneur that for a long time did everything myself that's been a shift I think part of that learning to delegate, learning to hand off work and bring us up to the focus on things at a high level is being a very key thing for me as leader and I think the find one is sort of around having patients when you want everything to. Be overnight overnight success and you realize I think as you get older patients is absolutely key thing to have in mind. But at the same time you want to be impatient on the details. So sometimes, I like to think this idea that you can be micro impatient but patients and you want things to be done quickly but ultimately, it's going to take many years to build an be successful. I. Also find that like as you get older as time seems to speed up, can feel like patients gets a little easier. For me is I feel that now and and use a little bit young for me to re feeling that do you have to also unpicking those a little bit. You said about getting the best people around you will in some of the toughest talent Mockus there is in terms of competitiveness. How do you think about what it tastes fundamental fly the best talents day I think it's a bunch of different things I think fundamentally you have to. Have something worth working. You have to have something meaningful and important because the folks who are GonNa come and join you on the journey going to spending the majority of their waking life working on the business with you and so it should be meaningful it should have impact. It should be something that the world needs that think is a very important part of attracting the very best people and com- being mission driven. We've benefited from that folks. Joining us so keen to do something that has a positive impact on the world, and then also you need to be competitive on compensation and everything and have a great culture and provides bold objectives and strategy, but it is very competitive. Hopefully, you won't ruin where we're working remotely around the playing field to be a little more level as we can now look for talent truly anywhere in the world. In case we were very focused the. Vast, Georgia the company was based in SF. But now that limitation is no longer really there daphne game kind constraints being removed. He alleged on Merseyside about delegation and is one that I it calls me start is like how do you tell what to delegate us his vote to keep within? You'll realm of control yeah. I think actually try and delegate everything and then the things you can't delegate that only you can do other things you're left with. Can Be replicated and easily done by someone else obviously things that should be delegated. But then when it comes to kind of like the core fundamental decisions, those are things that you should spend the most time on. So you wouldn't delegate necessarily the strategy of the company vision of the company might as well be charged that point. In terms of the kind of decor decisions that you really shouldn't delegate I, mean definitely found design investors at a big part of that would be kind of at south and Nina it's somebody who I think about. How can I fundamentally be the best member to you the founder and I'd love your perspective on this by advise me, what can I do to be the best pulmonary How can I build that trusting relationship and what would you want from me? The most important thing I think is at least my experiences to ask good questions and good questions can really be independent of experience, but they challenge and test assumptions and have the founders. Team look at things in different way or look at things through a different Lens because it's so easy to get caught up in the day today and sort of have a particular viewpoint on something in a good question well-crafted. Break you out of that perspective and look at something in a New Light. So I think mostly it's about good questions. There are other important aspects to be in a good board member but thing that's probably one of the most fundamental ones can I'm sure that will transition moments you in terms of how the business was philosophy as Komo's obscene absolute. In terms of by on raises Amschel they've been very fast and to the days to do in terms of the amount of people that want to join. How do you think governor decisions? Is He? Is, he didn't take. Yeah. No it has been a bit of a sort of a whirlwind in recent years in the early days. com found it very hard to raise money. We would not particularly attractive to investors I think because people in Britain understand what we were trying to do even other sort of business fundamentals are pretty good. So it wasn't until two thousand, eighteen that we did our series I institutional capital raise from insight venture partners, and that was six years after founding so that. Was a pretty long gap when so many companies do that series is within your too. So we had a bit of a different story but I think at that time we only really healthy position very profitable I. Think we want to sixty million dollars run rate at the time when we raised our series as we were able to call the shots in terms of who chose to work with I, think it really boiled down to not only having good funds who had a lot of great experience. To bring to bear the really boils down to the partner will join us the fundamental with on a regular basis. So I think looking for folks who was he truly understand what you're trying to achieve and have the patience to see that vision come to fruition. I. Think is key and bring energy an Oscar questions and help you push the business forward as much as they can definitely an important in establishing these folks the right personalities view is that kind of investor company I like Yeah I totally agree with that and I think the massive found it's was just so crucial anything by that relationship and as I said, can building that relationship trust is so implement totally agree with you that time defendant energy and good questions probably about him ball the worst questions you'll have a have a but I love it because it's quick fire round said is as you'll stay monotonous and you give me your immediate. So we'll see you ready to rock and roll. Okay let's do it. Favorite Kim Wyatt. What's the must-reads come on hit me probably the girdle back it was the first book blew my mind the author Douglas Star was trying to answer the question of how does consciousness work, which is to me one of the most fascinating questions in the world. Why is mental fitness became kind of consciousness that wise mental fitness to new physical fitness? Yeah. Because everybody has a mind and we need to take care of it with an instruction. Manual is as fast. He used the first person that comes to your mind for Richard Branson chartered hero in many ways, and one of the very few examples of publicly accessible entrepreneurs in the UK. Obviously the US has many many more but as the first one that springs to mind if your tail, what cortel would you be and why thousand cocktail I would probably tip myself over and get a beer barrel enough I think we'd have an interesting during them. Up Man Yeah Nice Nice called pint. I'm more of a hotel bomb. Simply on the biggest metal and what's been the takeaway from that Relationship Permanent Michalek Smith. MY CO-FOUNDER ADT com. He's taught me so much about every aspect of business really not least to do it with a sense of adventure and fun can found that the mental I think absolutely. Yeah. You know Michael's about ten years older than me before we hate me for saying that but I've learned so much from him and feel grateful that he is co founder he's just been a phenomenal friend and mentor. Not A, but informally, I've definitely learned so much from him how do you think about it guiding potential decision making I think about this fragment is now enormously Friday's a little bit older than me too easy. You WanNa have not brilliant mental ship relationship, but you to have an equal forcing bunny an equal say in decision making process how do you think about it nor influencing the purity of decision-making trying to take the piss out, of Michael, as much as I can and then level the playing field I love everyone in the take the past. Normal expression that anyone gets the. I have to ask in terms of like the ecosystem we're, and what would you I to change? Tack Puncture I mean a lot of. Is really focused on the extent of weld if you like improving efficiency of water that is out there as opposed to focusing on the world within cle-clear mind and emotional states that we're in and that's kind of the basis for calm. So I'd like to see more companies in the kind of mental health space totally with you in terms of more than the mental health space in terms of like creativity and imagination the phrase use your Good old trudy shit advice. Oh, I think it's great advice if it's taken seriously. Okay. I'm buying like taking seriously means you ash knit with that Casey? Time it's they love. How can you take it seriously, buses basically trying to free yourself from any kind of constraints and starting from first principles in terms of generating ideas and creding space. If necessary to daydream I, think as we discussing Elliott seems like there's less time for daydreaming time that we would have had to just kind of idly look window and think up things is now occupied with social media or incoming messages. So I think that you kind of have to dedicate intention round the idea of using your imagination and I think sort of unlocking the inner child within children very free in. Thinking and unencumbered by what is necessary become before or any other kind of constrain. So unlucky in a child and just kind of going in whatever direction that your creativity takes is important exercise. Yeah. I ID totally agree intensified the next five am term what does not let like pain that vision for me is we want to build one of the most meaningful invaluable companies in the world, one of the most loved brands and well on our way to doing that, we want to help many many millions more people out there with the tools that we've created and we have millions of members today. But we'd love to have hundreds of millions of members in years to come and be sort of one of those household brands. One of those utility kind of products that everybody needs in has everybody is saying, Elliott has a mind everybody sleeps everybody experiences the ups and downs, the stresses and strains of modern living, and we want to be there to help no matter what time of day will stage of life. So ambitions are very big. You know in terms of the scale we want to reach, and at the same time, we want to have a great business and do things in a way that. To the long term, and that could mean a profitable company companies we have been familiar and some point I imagine becoming a public company will be milestones along the journey but our work is really only at the very early stages. We have a lot of people to help. There's a lot of pain in the world quite frankly, and if Tom can help in just small way or in some cases of big ways than I think the work is would. Invite me to ask loss question but I'm too intrigued. You mentioned that kind of profitability and kind of how you've been profitable for awhile. Now, my question to you is in the current wall meka system wherein I mean proficiencies Bradley Scene But. How do you think the relationship between profitability in grace and many would fundamentally double down on growth in stays environment forsaking profitability do you think about our relationship I don't think it necessarily has to be a choice you can do both at the same time I think you can grow as fast as possible same time as being sensible about your expenditure and ultimately be. Profitable and you don't have to be insane profitable about being a bit above break even be a very, very good place to be because ultimately, destiny is in your hands at that point and relying on constant external funding is not necessarily always a good thing some businesses it's required, but we have the ultimate control destiny totally get your in terms of the control of your destiny, which is why so injured during the she time an email deep assistant. So I'm so glad that we got st this and thank you so much joining me stay. Thank you. This has been fun and congrats on your success to. I so enjoyed that not only great. have another Brittleness show but wouldn't incredible. Business is Michael built with Com- some very exciting times Barron. If you'd like to see more from us, you count on instagram and H stubbings nineteen, ninety-six bees how that before we leave each day I'm sure you've heard me talk about it before but I love Carter Carter fight and I'll start ups the investors manage acsi track com tables. And get on the oceans go to call to dot com slash chooser VC, TEAC temps, and off more than eight hundred, thousand employees and shareholders. He's Carter to manage hundreds of billions of dollars in equity and Carter. Now Offers Fund administration. So you can see real time data in the call to platform and what causes team experience from accountants as I said, head over to call to dot com forward slash Tuesday to. Get ten percent off speaking of a transformational product of that twenty twenty has been a year full of unexpected changes but one thing that's remained very constant. The most important part of a company is it's people in a world with distributive workforce's. It's more important than ever to align engaging develop employees, and that's why lattice comes in lattices rated the number one people management platform by real eases to help companies develop engaged. High performing teams fan because lattices trusted now by a two thousand Companies Light Reddit slack and post maze you can trust lines is to build a high performing culture companies leverage the lapses platform improvements in retention engagement. An productivity and lots is the only solution that they can ask performance management employee management, and now very surprisingly with the launch of brand new lattice grow career development, and one unified platform for people strategy. Team more supporters we will navigate to find on new normal. So had over two lattice dot com forward slash to`serve E. C. to find out more and do you ever wish to erase some of the best performing as of two thousand, nine, hundred and two, thousand and twenty all crowd investors were, and now you can join the moss next with our crowd accredited. Investors assessed to invest directly easily most importantly early or crowd investments IPO like beyond meat all been bought by companies like Intel. Nike Microsoft and Oracle today you can join our crowns investment in taxi a software startup revolutionizing how leading enterprise companies provide remote customer support you can get in early on taxi and other opportunities that all crown dot com slash two zero. If you're interested in investing the account is free. As I sat go to all crown dot com forward slash two zero visa as always I appreciate your phone I call him weights bringing another set of exceptional episodes next week.

Michael Harry stubbings Nike Michalek Smith Carter Carter Intel twitter Alex Chu Microsoft co-founder Cassia calm co founder Post Maze Komo Michael acton Smith Houston