3 Episode results for "Caroline Hicks"
The Left Wants You To Be Unhappy | PM Show
"It's that time time. Mocking load full. Michael very show is on the air. Jim acosta at cnn said a few days ago that he suffering from ptsd post trump syndrome post trump stress syndrome. I guess technically pretty disrespectful to our veterans who served in war and come home with the ravages of war in their minds. Twenty two a day take their lives because of it but hey i'm sure in his mind. Jim acosta is running into a burning building. he is a warrior for his cause. But you know it's gotta be terrible for the left. Misery loves company in. That's why they want you to be as unhappy as they are and often they succeed. I'm a statement. Often they succeed. You're going about your day to day life. you're enjoying your life and they jump up and go. Don't enjoy your life your racist and you go. I'm not a racist you're racist. You're horrible way. I know. I like black people here doing some money. What do you what do you need and so it's just constant but they'll never be happy without them. You can be happy without you. There miserable and their hope is to make you as miserable as they are. And if you don't understand that or believe that then you've never been around somebody who is mentally suffering from anxiety. Depression schizophrenia mental health problems and wants other people to suffer as they do. It's not that that makes them happy. It's that it makes it more bearable to them. It's an outlet for their anger. So imagine you're the left. You've decided we're going to open the borders that'll show him except when you open the borders bad gasser coming in lots of them. Children are coming in lots of them unaccompanied telling stories of having been raped. So what do you do. Well the worst thing you can do and the last thing you wanna do is to restart the border wall and that's why it makes for a delicious news. Update biden department of homeland security may restart. Trump's border wall construction. Oh my goodness can you imagine how bad it had to be. Imagine they're sitting around the table. Biden's passed out because it's after ten. Am communists cackling like the madwoman. She is the nut job. She is and whoever runs the white house. We don't know the evil. The evil little creatures. In creedence who run the white house. Who make the policy. They're sitting around going okay. I got it okay. We got more terrorists coming. Okay i got. We got more children. 'cause we can't keep up with this. We've asked nasa employees now to to volunteer to help. We may have to take over. Nasa facilities were taken over convention centers. It's bad they're they're committing crimes. Got what well the one thing. We can't do one thing that cannot happen is we cannot complete the border wall. How bad did it have to be until they said okay gas. We're at defcon four. We're at the highest level possible. We've got to complete the wall what somebody had to. I suggest completing the wall that per has. I hate to say this i know. Please don't please don't shoot the messenger but could we just at least don't army. Could we at least just entertain a conversation about completing the wall. Imagine the fury that was unleashed at that point because that validates trump trump was right and this is an academic discussion to them. This is their entire sense of self. Trump wins again. They're left crying in the corner. They didn't get picked for the for the For the team they are the runts who've been left out their entire lives and now trump good looking rich powerful successful wins again. Here's how the president responded to the news on newsmax of the mini crises. That are going on right now. Is the border situation. I did want to get your comments on that. Because there's a report out today that the biden administration is now going to follow through once they pulled the plug but now they're talking about going back and constructing the wall in the parts that were not yet complete one of the many things that they reverse immediately without going down there to the border and determining what could or could not be done. What do you think that the in administration needs to do to fix it right now. Well i think it's great that the reverse themselves but a lot of damage was done because we're going to have that world for almost complete You know delayed two and a half years because of lawsuits. The democrats sued us in congress. Many many suits and we want all of the suits and we started building. We're almost finished. And then they called it into it and it's just incredible but if they agree that they're going to complete it. It's very little to complete. If they agree that they're going to complete it. That's a great thing. That's a very positive step. Us border patrol arrested. A man who was walking along the us mexico border forty-five-year-old mexican national who it turns out had been convicted of murder in america and sent back deported after he served his term. He's back in the us illegally. Yesterday we got the news that that to yemenis yemen is in eastern africa. How did these people end up in mexico to come across our border. Well what if isis is recruiting terrorists. Come to this country just just act like mexicans. Well how do i do that. And w the state of iraq and syria has guide to crossing over. the mexican. border ball is as step by step tutorial to disguise herself as a hispanic immigrant these terrorist as amanda hispanic immigrants. Don't each warm out couscous. Off a lawful. They liked tamales and margaritas narrowed after may pilot like a tomorrowland tequila. Dumb me and some love a lesson to from central america. Don't ride around on a camel. David for low riders with spend in rams. Not repeat after me. Damn essay crashed by sixty four impala. 'cause abandon i was covering my own house. Dam is crushed my six four in bala because the bandana was covering my own excellent tag and finally face tattoos very hot right now with jolo community whenever possible step inside tattoo shop and ask the man behind the counter to set you up. Repeat after me. I would like tattoo of santa muerto on my cheek dot do of sent them. Were they on my cheek. Not some turkey la and put us all. I don't wanna hear it. He'll just go ahead and say it. Sorry michael berry show I received a video from a listener and it was a segment. That jake tapper had done about Having received a vaccine and he was given credit for the fact that this was a medical miracle that a vaccine had been created in such record time. We've never seen anything like that. And and of course. You know the fda and everybody i think probably lot of the protocols were stripped away to get this thing to market because the whole country wanted it to happen. But i don't believe this would have happened in any other environment with any other president and he gave credit to the company the pharmaceutical companies and he gave credit to everybody else and then at the end grudgingly he said and yes even former president. Donald trump well. What the hell. This guy made it happen. He drove this buggy whipped. He pushed he gave no alternative and coming from a business background. He had an approach that no other president. All of them practically spending a good portion of their adult professional careers in politics. I i think they would have accepted that. It would have taken longer and he just refused to accept. He willed it to happen well. Back in october there was an article by caroline hicks. That said white house. Deputy chief of staff says covid nineteen vaccine likely available by end of two thousand and twenty one. It was part of operation warp speed. There were some who laughed that this would happen. There were some who denied that it would happen but very few people believed that it could happen. And guess what we now take for. Granted it did had we not been in an election year and had it not been president trump. Been anyone else. They would have won the nobel peace prize. That deputy chief of staff is former louisiana congressman and then assistant to the president for planning and implementation and former And not former still dr louisiana's own doctor john fleming. Who is our guest. Dr fleming talk to me about your involvement in operation warp speed including the president's expectation. That we will get this thing done quickly and your understanding that this is not an easy thing to do. but we'll michael Thanks for having me on. If i could. I'd like to make one correction. You said that. I said by the end of twenty twenty one. I'm sorry twenty twenty yup. you're. I'm reading it directly. You're right so Which are quite right. I've got the scars and bruises to show that president trump when he wants something done at light speed You move mountains to do it. And of course i mean that tongue in cheek. Of course He was he's very A really great guy to work for full of grace. And i'd love to do it again sometime But he definitely put the pressure on. So let's back up for second. Remember that one of the things that set donald trump apart as a builder developer businessman in new york city was he took on a an outdoor skating. Rink that nobody could get Put back into action and he did it in record time way under budget and that tells you something about the man and what he expects in what he can do so when the pandemic hit very early on we own the The colona virus taskforce and inside the white house in the west wing and so forth knew that the ultimate solution is the president. You and as the cdc ultimate solution was going to be immunizations and we needed to do many many. Other things like p. p. e. protective things and then to laters and all that we must begin immediately developing vaccine is the only way we really stopped this pandemic and so work was begun however I'm not aware of any vaccine. That was developed anywhere close to this maybe two to five years. In some cases some cases ten years twelve years and yet it was done in really approximately nine to ten months and so the question is how did we do that without cutting corners and the answer is very simple number one. The technology and vaccines has advanced tremendously. And using the m are innate. The messenger are in vaccine which moderna adviser are Really help things to make fast and effective. That was number one number two. The president had the idea that we buy down the risk. Normally a pharmaceutical company will develop the vaccine Tested on animals then tested on a few human subjects Wait to see what happens And they would be very careful with ghana investment because many of these just don't work out and and that money is wasted so they typically go very carefully and they wait until fully approved by the fda before they even begin manufacturing. What president trump said and what operation warp speed did under the tutelage of the coronavirus taskforce which is sort of you say Wants to say look. Do it. All in parallel. Let's do it simultaneously. Pick six or seven great candidates vaccines. Let's test them. But let's manufacturer them almost simultaneously and whatever the cost are will be born by government and that was of course developed in the cares act that was passed where billions of dollars was spent to take away that financial risk for for pharmaceutical companies. So we the end the way it was accomplished in record time was to simply say look. Everybody get to work. This is gonna be a public private partnership and it was it took the pharmaceutical companies with their industrial might power and all of the innovation intelligence they head but it took government with its power. That's really the defense production act and many other things to put the resources in place so get all happened so neither one could have done it by themselves but it was all under the careful watch of donald trump or president. I'm going to be up against a break here in just a minute art fleming. But i'd like to go through and get a little granular asked to this process. Kind of time. Line of that. I guess pfizer had the first vaccine that came to market. But when you first start you know you've gotta virus in the early days. We didn't know that much about the virus you know. We were developing knowledge. Just we went along. I don't know what information y'all have presumably a lot more than the public did. But how do you begin. The process of directing these companies in giving them some level of direction as to how to begin this vaccine. Or do the or do you say. Come to us with ideas. What's the germ of that. Well specifically when it comes to developing a vaccine against the virus. what's important is to get the dna footprint of that and again that's another advancement. We have over prior years. Remember that when we developed the polio vaccine. Smallpox vaccine those things. We didn't have that information. We weren't able to determine what the actual dna signature was of the virus so we have many capabilities today so The president turned it over to the nih And to the cdc The experts in this not the political but the experts within these and he said look. We're going to supply all the money you need. And we're also going to engage with the us army which has a big role in vaccine development for obvious reasons because this could be involved in a national emergency which actually was and so. He brought everybody together. And that's when we develop the corona vars task force so all the key members all of the agencies that health and human services thema united states army the military in general all of that under the vice president and ultimately president of the united states so it took bringing all of these experts Together and all the newest technologies and the best minds and putting all the money necessary behind it. And that's really how it's done from lead visions to librarians. Everyone listens the michael berry. Show dr john. Fleming served at the right hand of president. Donald trump during operation warp speed to get a vaccine to america. He's our guest. So you get the dna footprint and then you begin My wife has done more research on this than i have. But as she explains it to me The johnson and johnson vaccine which came later is a different sort of methodology of how you you vaccinate versus the early. Two one is kind of i. Guess adjusted johnson is more sort of a live virus type thing in the but can you talk about which approach was chosen and how those decisions were arrived at. Well the first two were messenger. Rene and again. That's the newest technology. Quite honestly We weren't so sure that that was going to be the best technology. It's really not that we we don't have a lot of experience as it turns out. It was excellent because both five in the dern or ninety five percent effective and Johnson and johnson really can't make that claim your right johnson. Johnson i did use an older technology using adenoviruses a vehicle still very good vaccine but we didn't use a A live virus for for for any vaccine in fact. I'm not aware that we've used a live. Glamorous perhaps since To saving poliovirus some years ago because there is risk to alive vars. Some people with compromised immune systems can actually end up getting disease. So what we do is target certain antigens which are proteins that are specific to the dna characteristics of the virus that we target and once. We know what those protein antigens are. We develop a virus. That will neutralize that Or neutralize the organism that contains that very special a specific protein. And so. that's the reason why. these These vaccines work so well and also why the mutants probably are not going to survive the vaccine because they still contain some of the basic protein antigens that we develop these vaccines against so while we may see me -tations and while they may not respond took the same level always in general the vaccines we've already developed should be very effective against all strains that they come from this fires dr fleming. You've been a congressman. You've been a doctor. You're a military veteran. You've been a businessman. You has served as deputy assistant secretary for health information technology reform. You've been assistant secretary of commerce for economic development. You've been assistant to president. Trump for planning and implementation is operation warp speed the single greatest accomplishment of your career. Well you know tell when people ask me What are you going to do next. I often say well. I haven't decided what i'm going to be when i grow up so Who knows what lays ahead for me. i would say that i really michael can't claim credit for operation warp speed. I wouldn't even begin to do that. It was the great experts. Experts scientists. Within but i did have a role in delivering it To develop the funding for it and so forth. But i met with them. They would actually report to me once a week. Give me updates not only on the vaccine but the monoclonal and other things that have been life saving remdesivir which is an antiviral. They were working on all of that. At the same time but also served on the opera on the arnuhar's task force which worked closely with operation warp speed. And so all i can say is that it was one of the greatest privileges in my life to simultaneously serve only steps away from the president united states. Donald trump who. I have humongous Respect for who. In my opinion. I will go into go. Go down in history. Very likely is the best president we've ever had certainly in modern times But also associated with all the great people that he brought into the mix that develop solutions that even though we've lost over a half million americans think of all the millions of americans he will have saved by doing. We did and i'm just delighted so privileged to haven't been associated with these great people who accomplish this what was serving with president trump. Like for people who've only seen the public persona. I always asked this question. And i'm fascinated by the responses. I did you know i. I've been with him in the oval office Actually spent a weekend with him with other people at camp david. And when you're with him in a small group He is totally different than what you see on tv. He's very kind full of grace Deferential asking others opinions complimenting people around the table So but he's always in charge. I've never been in a room with him that he wasn't in charge in all of the Interest all of the attention is directed him. He commands attention when he's in a room bigger small and But he said the like to be around and quite honestly hilariously funny I remember We met one. Sunday operation warp speed. And you know things were tough. I mean these were dark days. I'm talking about back in april about a year ago and Normally we would meet with the vice president but president trump actually showed up and took a seat at the head of the table and We're all sitting around the table. And we're beginning to talk about things and suddenly and i don't recall was but someone could table sneezed and president trump jumped up and ran out of the room quickly And in return. Of course the whole thing really kind of Was funny and his timing and so forth was was appropriate and it was all to sort of get us relaxed and get us thinking. Get us focused on solving america's problems in a very difficult time but when you're around him he has. He has just hilarious always cracking jokes and always doing so appropriately. You know sometimes a joke could appoint like that can really lighten the mood and say everything's going to go well. It's not an easy thing to do i. I remember hearing the story. About joe montana and they were in the The huddle and this is before the the big drive that wins it all and you know. They have two minutes in five seconds left. I think in ninety yards to go and odds are against him. And there's a tv timeout in there in the huddle and they're waiting on joe montana and everyone is tense and he says oh my goodness. That's john candy. That's john candy on the sideline and john was on. The opposing team's sideline and the fact that he could be that calm told them his he's gonna be okay. We're gonna be fine. He's not tense at all. And i think that's what that joke in a moment like that says people will continue our conversation with dr john fleming about operation warp speed in. How the vaccine came to be while he served the right hand of president trump with his finger on the pulse king of continues on michael berry. Show dr john. Fleming service right hand with president. Donald trump during operation warp speed. He's our guest. Walked dr at scott in one. And i read that operation. Were speed the title. That term came from star trek. Is that true. Well i know that. The term Travel warps the The lead came from You know from one of the famous movies. But i honestly don't know that name was given to it Before i came to the white house in march But i it's anyone's guess but i think it's so appropriate. You know when you think back as to how dark those days were the daily press conferences in the afternoon. The uncertainty created such an anxiety You know i liken it to when you realize the second tower went down you realize okay. This is terrorism But i remember interviewing president bush. We didn't know who it was. We didn't know how many more there were to come. We didn't know what had happened. And so the uncertainty the limitless possibilities of awful that loomed or what's so frightening. Talk to me. Dr lemming if you would about that time and how you get through it. Well you're right. There was a lot of uncertainty around two starace and about what was going to happen. you could have taken a very optimistic view and say look we've had. These scares me he times before The sars virus Other things that were threatened To this country that never turned out to be much. I can remember the swine flu That was threatening back in the nineteen seventies and we ended up vaccinating a lot of people across the country and We never really saw any real effects from the swine flu. So other hand You can take a dark and dr prediction and look at the pandemic of nineteen seventeen and say you know we could see millions of people so you really don't know you're so right about that. Michael it could be anywhere in between and of course we've seen dr fauci say nothing no need to wear a mask. No need to shut down travel and then reversed himself and say no we need to wear to mass and everybody needs to stay in their homes and just you know. Shut down schools and And in in jobs so ultimately That's why you have a smart man like president. Donald trump a man who has made weighty decisions maybe in his life just sort of listen to the inputs you know read the science get advisors to give him the various options. That's why you need a man or woman Is you know if it were a female president. Who has that experience and knowledge to really make those kinds of decisions. But you're so right. In the beginning we had no idea how bad are really How how really little this impact as doubt it impact is quite a bit dr. John fleming is our guest assistant to president trump for planning and implementation. You must have a window into my mind. Because i wanted to figure out a way to bring foul she up and now that you've done it. How did you feel when you would watch found. She go before the cameras and seem almost to be engaged in subterfuge seem to be working with the media against the president. He contradicted himself constantly. How did you feel watching that happening. You know. I can sort of understand where he's coming from As a as a physician My perception of that was he had this huge reputation. that's built up with hiv disease and so forth You know this reputation that he wanted to preserve and i think that he would make predictions that were extreme in some cases on either side at different times. So there's anybody called him out and said look. You were wrong about that. He could always point to a statement that he made. It did agree with whatever the ultimate outcome was. So i think that's what's important here to understand about. Dr fauci is in as much as he was camera hound and my goodness we all know he was. He loves the camera. He wanted to be sure that no matter what he said he could always point to a statement later on. That would actually support. What really happened. I don't think he was any big friend of the trump administration He seems to be much more I should say friendly or compliant the biden administration so we can accept that we understand that of course But at the end of the day. I think it's more about his interest in being a public figure a but not being criticized by his his colleagues and his cohorts in the science community having gotten it wrong as it turns out. He got a lot of things wrong and i mentioned him before. He said we didn't need math. I was in the room when he was telling everybody. This and it didn't make sense to me. and then Again He Totally reversed himself and Then said that we should shut down america and and we have but then he's been really slow to To really suggest that we should get back to work the way we we must so at the end of the day. I i just think it's about him and his own reputation more than anything but he was really he really fouled up and confused the messaging coming out of the lighthouse and i know the president was very frustrated with that. Well he not only confused the messaging he seemed to politicize the messaging at a time when we least needed that and i found that troubling dr john fleming's our guest former louisiana congressman assistance president trump for planning and implementation. Let me ask you. You know with with a year behind us. We've learned so much we've come so far looking back not to say that it was done in error. But what would you do differently. And maybe didn't do anything wrong. It's just it would be different knowing what we know now. Well actually Was assigned take lawyers and experts from both the vice president's office and the president to do a look back of how we dealt with a pandemic what we had in resources and what we should do better in future and it actually created. I pay for. I should say more likely. It's a book That was delivered to the vice president. The president and the chief of staff and it was mainly focused on. What is it that we need to be prepared for. The next pandemic and first and foremost is the ability to to to measure data and to report it We didn't know what hospitals needed ventilators. We didn't know what hospitals needed Face masks or you know the and ninety five's we. We didn't know who needed gloves. Patients going to various hospitals. How many people were dying. The system for that is very very antiquated based on snail mail and faxes so our first recommendation is that all needs to be cleaned up and it was greatly improved on a temporary basis. But still a lot of phone calls a lot of faxes. That were really unnecessary. In this digital age also Restoring our capabilities or manufacturing capabilities are critical China was literally turning shifts around of pp that had already been ordered even before the pandemic knowing they were going to need it like us. They turned the ships around. So not only were we not getting a normal supply but it was being taken away from us so we learned that we need to have. We don't necessarily have to manufacture everything us For medical emergencies but we need to be able to scale up very quickly. It's that time. Time time. Locking load michael very show is on the air. Yes before we had vaccine how we treat corona virus patients you know there was a high higher level of of more talent higher level of fatalities a terminal illness when this thing started then we. We've gotten much better with that right. As we've learned learned quickly the medical community particularly and even individuals. You know what what to do differently. When the president came out and spoke of hydroxy clarkson in the media suggested that this horrible thing to do my wife is from india. Her mother was a doctor in rural. India had her own clinic in their house. And my said we've been using hydroxychloroquine in third world for years for these sorts of it works. It's not a crazy idea that he's come up with. I had a doctor from Nigeria stella emmanuel. Come out and say this is exactly what i'm doing to treat patients. I'm getting great results. There were several things that the president pointed to. They ridiculed him and acted like he was some sort of a criminal for suggesting that later once he was gone. They admitted no. This is actually good. Did that disturb you to see medical care. Politicized like that bothers me greatly because as a physician I've never chosen a course of action for patient care that was based on anything political. It's in my mind is always been. What's been tested improving. And what's best for the patient with Full knowledge by the patient and the ultimate decision by the patient as to what course of action to take. Now here's the situation. Remember that when this pandemic hit we had no tests for so we had to figure that out and And we did. We eventually did then we had to say. What can we treat this with. And we look around and we see there's nothing available. There's nothing developed But there were reports that came out that said hydroxy corcoran Could be Through semantic godal and small-scale studies could be effective. But we didn't know so. Is it a safe drug. Yeah it's got a great a great track record as you point out. there is Do this has been used. Many years for the prophylaxis of malaria With great outcomes It's also used by arthritic patients with great results So it's safe has got to save track record in the end when we did do rigorous studies necessary. We found that it really is not effective. But if that's the only thing you have and you have some anecdotal information that says it might be effective. Then what what do you have to lose. And so the president believes that he should promote whatever might be possibly effective until such time that we did develop effective treatments. And we did. That was the monoclonal the remdesivir we found out that heparin can be effective late in the in the disease So there were many things that We we learned could improve outcomes with patients but the point being here that there was absolutely no harm in promoting hydroxy over and understanding that it might actually help some people. But that's really all we had when that's all you got. That's what you have to go with. Well and i have the full understanding that. We didn't know what we didn't know in somebody had to make decisions and that had to be a tough place to be because it's a it's a big burden it's a big burden that the fears of the nation. That was a great deal of anxiety. There were a high number of infections. You had particularly new. York was seeing a terrible terrible situation and it was something the likes of which in the modern era we hadn't seen on that level so i can only imagine what what that was like. President trump wanted to be very clear that china played a role if not in how this thing emerged and developed Then how it was being discussed and when we were alerted What was your thought. How important is it that we make that history understands how this thing spread and the role of the chinese communist party in preventing us from knowing it and what was going on in preventing us to this day from seeing what happened in the wuhan lab. Well you know. Dr redfield former director of cdc during this period and trump administration has come out and said The all evidence points to the fact that this was a virus created in a laboratory environment that escaped because we know that this lab Really had poor techniques in terms of safety and protection so I it seems pretty clear that that's really how the virus spread this whole idea that it came from bats That's been pretty much discounted the kind of bats that might have carried. This are not even in that area. I mean what's the chance that the one Major viral lab in the entire country of china. Which is huge That the outbreak would occur right. There were that laboratory. Is i mean it. Just common sense empirically. You've got to understand that. That's that's gotta be the origin of it and we we've had absolutely no transparency from w. h. o. or china and And that's all very distressing because this could easily happen again. So it's important that we put pressure on countries like china to do the right thing to be transparent and also let us help them if they would allow us to show them how to protect against these accidents. I don't think it was done on purpose. But i do think it was an accident and i think it could happen again and who knows what could come out of this one virus it could mutate into something more dangerous later on So there's a lot that needs to be done and again it just goes to show you that a close country under communism is a danger to the world john calvin fleming junior. You served this country as a member of our armed services you have served in public life as a public servant. You have served patients as a doctor. You have served the country as the assistant. President trump planning and implementation. I thank you for your time. What an amazing amazing experience you've had. It's good to know that folks like you're at the right hand of the president as it all went down. Thank you sir. Well thank you michael. Just look i appreciate the opportunity to be able to express how enriching the experience was for me working with president and all the tremendous people around him to be they're getting a historic time of the pandemic I feel very privileged and honored to have done that But again that is part of my life in service both as a physician and as someone working in government whether it's elected or By way of appointment with this great president. And so hopefully i've made my contribution to make this world just a little bit better and look forward to any future opportunities in doing so and i would also really prey upon your your listeners To look what opportunities do you have in your community whether it's healthcare other things to volunteer to serve to do things to make this world a better place for your fellow man and And again it's always great to talk with you michael and look forward to getting with you again sometime. Thank you sir from portland to albany all great cities in between the michael berry show is nationwide. They man who that got. Come down south new the bone. you'll have football. Do you live in america but feel like you're in communist china. Oh you concerned about defending free speech gun rights and preserving your nation's history but you don't want to be called a nazi. Were you recently accused of inciting violence because you share the same beliefs as a small group of people. Who dress up in viking costumes before storming our nation's capital don't be ashamed. You're not a bad person. You're a republican. And that's okay over. Seventy five million. Americans feel the way you do and they're not bad people and neither. Are you sure you may think we should defend old statues and keep a record of historical events. But that doesn't mean you support slavery. Maybe you think it's important to help poor people but you don't want everyone in america to live off welfare. That's okay too and it's also okay to defend free speech and want lower taxes and be crazy enough to believe there are only two genders because there are only two genders. So don't be ashamed of what you are or who you are. You're republican and that's okay. Well our choice in the republican senate primary was doug collins. It was not meant to be in. That seat was lost. I think he would have won. He was donald trump's choice in superstar congressman from two thousand thirteen to january of this year attorney air force veteran and now talk show host. Because that's the highest form of being here. He has he has reached the pinnacle sixteen ninety. Am on w. mlb congressman. Doug collins is our guest pleasure to have you. i'm a veteran into. I'll turn your mic on now. Good to be here. I'm glad to know that. I'm hearing my dad would like to know that i have finally started moving up in the world out of radio talk. Show exact like lyndon johnson used to say when he got a nice introduction he said. I wish my parents were here because my dad would have enjoyed it and my mom would have believed it. Exactly exactly going to be with you. Catch me up before we get to. What's going on in in georgia. With regard to this voting bill in your piece for fox news dot com. Let's go back to the republican primary. You lost to the to. The governor's choice kemp's choice. There seems to be something of a split in georgia politics between sort of the new radical right Trump crowd and then kind of the establishment. Folks that that an all represent my right on that a little bit. I think what you've got is one of the things is remember. We didn't have a primary. I think that's the biggest thing to remember his i. I was not able to go up against skelly for any primary. I had to go with you in the jungle. General man that you had the democrats and eighteen people Everything that we have said in would if if done it properly we would have one primary then. We took on warnock and he wouldn't have been able to do what he was able to do. So the biggest split is is is a lot of folks who aren't passionately owned by the president the president but you still have a lot of folks who still like the president but you know for whatever reason they they don't identify you know that so what you got in georgia is A little bit of a mix on How we move forward. We're still a right-center state. But i think one of the things in what we're gonna talk about here in a minute has actually brought those two two groups together again. That's an interesting perspective. Then let's move to that your piece entitled major league. Baseball owes georgians an apology with the will. The mlb stop playing games in california new york due to their lack of early voting. The former commissioner. Fay vincent came out and said how can you. How can you take the all star game away from atlanta quote. If georgia is racist. How can baseball talk of doing baseball of doing business with china. So were you shocked by well. I don't think had been surprised by the voter. Id bill because seventy percent georgians from what i read support. It was was there. This much internal pushback to this bill. No not really. I mean you ha. I think everybody was expecting georgia again. There was a lot of discussion. A lot of there was just some honesty. Honest discussion about what happened in november. Okay and and the biggest thing came out of georgia given to the fact that the the results of the election also heightened this as well and the president is former co in his comments but what happened was last year. We implemented some things in georgia. They just were never part of the georgia Election cycle. And i've been i've been an elected official now for almost sixteen. Well sixteen years and and the thing drop boxes. The some of the sending out on an absentee request every registered voter in the state of georgia. Which by the way that many of these folks were getting more than one ballot request. Is it go forward. So i if you look at it. These are the kind of things that we were going to happen. And let's like you're so they came up with a bill. Frankly for those of us who are looking at. It was pretty good bill. Middle of the road didn't go really too far is some want. And then all of a sudden after the fact the the stacey abrams and that group and that culture all of a sudden it started putting pressure on corporations and major league baseball gave frankly. They gave brian camp a governor. Who's been under a lot of fire for a lot of different reasons. Gave him a lot of political cover and they have brought republicans together to say. Look at a certain point in time. You just can't say everything is racist and if they do then major league. Baseball is very much of a large problem. Saying how do they deal with china. How they deal with these other states. And so i think from a political perspective is probably one of the better gifts for the republican party. Georgia united republicans under one banner against democrats exactly well and it also comes back to this and this is something i look. I sort of. Have i been one of those conservatives who say listen this i think we have the best ideas but i think we tell it poorly we. We're we're some of the worst storytellers on the conservative side. That i've ever seen and because we're boring and what what we've gotta do is start telling the story of why conservative matters in my mind and that's how it affects people in jobs and education and those kind of things. We've gotten away from that what this allows us to do. Is i think people think we're tired of being say from a concert of saying if we disagree with you then we're racist and that's exactly what major league baseball said. They said the state of georgia was racist but yet they can't point to one area of that bill. This is That is a racist part of the bill in fact what they have now. They've changed their their sort of team to say is that well. It has the potential. Well my question to two major league baseball the delta to coca-cola you'll never introduce a new product because it has the potential to fail. You'll never hiring ucla because they have the potential to fail. You said a standard that you can't meet and i think that's the biggest issue that we got and people are tired of it but it strikes me that when i was in campaigns i used to say if you're explaining you're losing an adage been around a long time if so hurling accusations that you you're on your heels right mike leach. The coach at texas tech. In now. I guess he's at mississippi state. I can't remember but he was asked one time. You got eleven starters on offense not one of which was offered a scholarship at ut in am but you can run up on them. What do you do to defeat them with lesser quality players. And he said. I want them on their heels. I want them second guessing. I am always on offense even when i'm on defense. I'm thinking offense. And that's where. I think we go wrong. There's no punishment. Mlb there's no punishment to coca-cola there's no punishment to dealt. Coca-cola kills more people than covert every year by far diabetes and heart attacks. Where is the attack on coca cola. Folks are going to enter the political fray. There should be a consequence to that. There should be a cost to that. Well it is interesting that If they hours pretty proud of its speaker of the house in georgia david rawson on the night of their last day in session. What we call the forty days of signing session. He stripped and put into language into a bill to sent back to the senate will strip delta of it's about a forty eight million to fifty million dollars tax fuel tax credit the delta gets For being basically in atlanta and homebase atlanta they had stripped that and said. Look if you want to play politics. Fine we'll take this this tax break away and lieutenant governor in the state of georgia jeff dunkin. Who's i'm not sure. What jeff dunk is doing these days. But he's he's sort of went off the reservation of of saying hey are being reserved and saying you know how he's actually attacking the perform president and everything else. He kill the bill so there was some folks in georgia like you said. Look you know if you're going to do this. Fine if you wanna get into the ring you gotta know that you're gonna take a hit really gonna do keep calm and listen on. Don't you turn it off. we do it around here. This is the michael berry show. Changing pak owns most. Call you on the telephone. A give you lease. It's how get same. Doug collins is the former congressman future senator in georgia. He served from two thousand thirteen till his term ended in january. Twenty twenty one. He ran for the senate did not win. There was a republican gubernatorial. Appointee with a lot of money behind her who did and then managed to lose to worn out which is why we're at fifty fifty in the senate and we have two democrats representing a republican state. Doug republicans win that seat back from not next year. Yes i believe so and and in reasonably so and in one of the reasons that we're looking at that seat again it's it's number one is your georgia's or is still republicans. Say he says a right center say but also we've got Have we've got now worn out. Actually has to do something he never had to do. If we could have had a primary or we could have done different. We could ran against him. He's now going to answer for being basically The biden fiftieth vote in the senate to run through the agenda. So he's going to have a record he's gotta run on. People are not happy with impact complained about this bill that we just talked about a few minutes ago You know calling. Basically saying is a racist bill and then he act surprised when major league baseball did what it did and the other companies came out so i think yes it can be one. The republicans have also gotta turn out. That's another issue and we can't just set aside and whether it's texas georgia or anywhere else It's not enough just to put in our next to your name now. You're gonna have to especially in georgia We're going to have to actually get out and talk about what we believe and why we believe that. Go back to the principles of reagan and others. It's like hey this is. What makes it better for you and we got to do that if we don't then where we could be in trouble. We're knocks background. The the woman who came and made the allegations against him his willingness to lie the claim of a dog that he did the shade tree preacher attitude in this idea that he can mention god every so often and be he comes across to me as a guy who is not not only what i disagree with him politically but that he is a bad person he is. It's interesting you say that because this is you know. My background is being a chap. I was thinking about for eleven years This this sunday was something really interesting. I think it shows a lot to a behind the scenes. And i think what they're willing to do to be like. This is a man who priest in ebony or baptist church the martin luther king paul. This was done on sunday morning and then on sunday afternoon. They put out a tweet. Basically you know from religious perspective said that everybody sees themselves in other words the very day we celebrate from a christian perspective jesus coming out of the tomb and that was the reason that we can have life and since how they should return wide he puts up well. Chris easter sort of transcendent. And that's why we should help everybody else because that's how we save ourselves and i'm like you know. Are you willing to say anything. We popped him back. Pretty heavy and a lot of other people did. But you hit on something. He's bought into this line. That i can say whatever i think i should say to make my my supporters happy. And that's that's really what we're seeing right now and he was able to do it without being called on it Last year. and you know there's a of reasons to that but but if you know we run or somebody else. They're going to don't have to answer for this and he's gonna be able to get away with with all the infighting between campaign rapids burger and the president and their willingness to turn on him. It's typically the case in such a situation that the party is in shambles. That usually kind of is a byproduct of that. Which means you not doing. The blocking and tackling. You're not doing the voter turnout. But you're not doing the registrations. Is that going to be fixed by next november. It's going to i. It's got a long way to go The current chairman out. Here dave schaper has done a great deal to try and fix that but but inherently there's some just some soul-searching has got to be done here and and what happened. I anybody who says that. What happened after in november december and january in georgia Hurt us is is not being honest with themselves and it has in my concern is is that it's turned off those voters that would come out to vote who never showed up to a party meeting than ever showed teams you know to to the rallies but they would show up and vote. You know conservative ideals. And i'm concerned that that we've gotten away from that blocking and tackling that you talk about. When is it. You know we talked about this that when you hear republicans complaining about democrats registering voters and having voter turnout. My first thought is this warrants. Why are you complaining about horn. She doing it. And that's we've got an frankly. We've gotten away from that in georgia and i've been talking about it for years because it's become more of a republican you know. Let's go ahead and talk about you. Know what policies we don't like instead of electing officials which is what the party to four as a lifelong georgian. I have to ask you because we got tbs when we finally cable just before. I graduated high school. we got. Tbs and that weekly what. Everybody became a braves fan. Whether you like it or not my question to you would be. Who is your one single. Favorite atlanta brave of all time. Wise it del murphy clock. no actually There was a there was a third baseman. That i really liked the name bob for can't play play the hot corner. He was a he was one of those just rising sun's coming out of college and he just had one of those here but my next favorite jeopardy yeah chipper was cheaper. Came a little later for me. But i mean. His numbers are great. I- classy guy. But bob horner. What a great choice that. That was the era. You don't have those guys anymore. The mike schmidts. George brett's the carney lansford the bill la the big hitting third baseman with the big arm. Buddy bell you'll have those guys anymore now hanging. How many times can you watch a third baseman. Now allow corner in those smith. Those guys they catch a hot dry and they don't even plant their feet. They just flipped it. Yeah and it's at first base before you know it and and and this is you know that was an era glenn hubbard and remarriages and perspective and then we went into the nineties with that. You know when you had four cy young winners music just you best starting rotation of any baseball team i've ever seen. I grew up sixties. Early seventies mets even better than that was savior even better than that consistency of it. Well as well as my for when you mentioned. Tbs you meant superstation everything. He goes back to time. I used to watch the braves braves and the cubs would play other. Wgn versus wcbs. Neither one could win a game but you all watched it just to see what the great train wreck. There was going to happen in a game and just wanted to see harry carey in the seventh inning drunk. See if he'd fall over singing. Take me out to the ballpark where he got the better. It got oh goodness and we. We had a legend here. The man who called the hank. Aaron homerun milo hamilton milo hated harry carey and i always wanted to talk to him about harry carey you. You knew you don't bring harry carey to him because they despised each other. Doug run we would love to support you. I hope you win. You were a great congressman. You did a great job. I remember in those hearings being so proud of you. I thought you'd pull that out. It was a tough election. I hope you run. We'll support you. I hope you win. And i'd like to send a republican back to the senate and i hope it'll be you right. What take care. And we'll talk to you in thing michael berry known as are also known as l. to no no. We bring our kids to to the station. My kids are older now but ramones kids when they come to the station. It just changes the whole mood. Happiness optimism their kiddos. They got their die brings a whole bag of stuff when they get their dinosaurs laid. Is daddy dinosaur. We're going for pizza when really. Oh things are this is what we live for our children right. Schools are where they gather and learn and grow and develop and thrive and play. So they've been out of school for your and they wanna go back to school and they've been out of school for a whole year and they go back to school and there are homeless. Encampments can you imagine. The story comes from. Ari hoffman associate editor in seattle correspondent for the post millennial and it's entitled seattle students returning to in person learning or greeted by homeless encampments on campus. School officials demand they remain. I'm not sure what's more shocking homeless encampments on the school campus or that. The school officials think that's where they should be in. They're not going anywhere. Ari what is going on in your fair city of seattle. That used to be such a great place while basically you're talking about people being so open minded their brains of fall out there so progressive that they believe that this is true compassion of leading people outside of the elements to suffer to overdose to die. They believe that's compassion. Because when people come in and try and help the people outside they call them fascists they call them nazis they call them all the names you could possibly think of because they actually want to get these people services and shelter so you're talking about members of the school board itself saying that they refused to allow city officials to remove the homeless encampments from school property. And meanwhile you're talking about one of these encampments they had a woman overdose and die in the middle of the street in february and the body was laying there for hours before anybody did anything now. This was before the kids were back in school at the other property. You're talking about people who held the janitor at knife point people who stole electronics out of the school building and still the school board refuses to do anything about it because they believe there so compassionate people camp on the property. How how does this end ari. Where do we go from here. You would think that a city which had an autonomous island where people were shot and killed that would be rock bottom for our city but in the last election cycle our citizens and their infinite wisdom double down on this kind of liberalism and voted for more of it. I don't know how this changes every election cycle. We think oh this is it. They've seen how bad it can get. They're gonna change their minds but nope they just keep doubling down on dumb. You know it's so disturbing to see you know. I remember years ago. One of our producers chad nakanishi. Spend a lotta time in portland went to the university of oregon and he started following this. This communist running for office on the seattle city council only kept saying you know this is a real issue. This religion can't be and then it was just as if overnight he was right and i was wrong and i didn't believe a big city could fall like this. Well she's the one who really runs the seattle city council. Now we're talking about the same person. But i can't think of any other communists so i assume we are and she has really dragged the whole city down with her because they claim they're afraid of rather they're not gonna. They're afraid of her but they do whatever she wants and she was dragged the city so horribly to the far far left we are now living in her communist. Utopia she identifies as a marxist. You haven't high. She calls herself a socialist alternative type. And i don't even really understand what that means. She has her own socialist organization. Because i guess the other ones were too warm and fuzzy for going to start her own breakaway radicalize. Her radical group ari. Let me ask you In houston the school board. The school district Is independent of city government in new york. It's part and parcel of the same. What is the situation. Is this jenny durken school district or oh they're technically independent seattle when everything's blue and everybody thinks the same brain. Nothing here is really independent. Matt even courts. It's so disturbing because for so long. I had thought of of seattle as a city on the rise. Kind of a singapore of america. You know one of these tigers that was growing culture and business and tourism and then it's just as if this sort of postmodern implosion collapsing upon itself. That's exactly what it was. I used to actually recruit people to move out here. I used to go to new york and go to these community. I am jewish community to get people to move out here. And i can't do it anymore. Not good cautions gotten too expensive and you're not getting any bang for your buck whatsoever. I mean what are your property. Taxes by going to the schools and the schools have been opened. They just opened this monday. And students came back and found homeless and on the property which school officials demand. Remain you note that neighbors have even photographed. King county needle exchange vans near the properties. First of all having a needle exchange in and of itself but the fact that that's going on near the school properties. Yeah well. I'm not surprised anymore because another city in seattle name in washington called federal way. Actually have these. Neil change vans from the county showing up without the city's knowledge. What they were doing was there. Were setting up in parking lots of private property like grocery stores and such and even the city park and rides and they were offering these needles to ever wonder if one person who is a reader of mine actually just walked over and said hey can i swap some meals. I'll have any to give you. And they said no problem her box of one hundred and eighty and why wouldn't they and why wouldn't they is there. An organized protest against this are their parents that are protesting it. This are the teachers. God forbid that. I even asked this question. Are the teachers speaking out about. This or is the unions told him to be quiet. Well something that's interesting with regard to this is actually a group of parents and neighbors and even some teachers and must be a few common-sense ones remaining for on campus. The other day and they were greeting the patch. Shut up with leaflets. Telling them what was going on. 'cause most of these parents have no idea what was going on and they even informed the school board. They were doing this. And the president of the school board threaten them with trespassing so she lets. The homeless encampments day but threatens the parents who are there to inform the situation with trespassing. I can't even imagine what a dystopia in world a person has to live in. What a warped mind you have to have to think that is acceptable. Ari hoffman small business owner and former politician. I gained exposure for bringing to light failed socialist policies that affected his home businesses and communities in seattle. Keep telling your stories are a. We're listening. ari. Hoffman post millennial. Thank you buddy. Thank you probably good day. Wow just wow you send your kid to school you pull up mom pulls up in the drop off line if you don't have bus and only guy that butts. Are they doing camping at school. Or maybe they're doing keeping its and a half more star stay back. Oh my god that dude's butt naked peon everywhere and smells like ass. Only thank you good night.
Dr. John Fleming
"A couple of days ago. I received a video from a listener. And it was a segment. That jake tapper had done about Having received a vaccine and he was given credit for the fact that this was a medical miracle that a vaccine had been created in such record time. We've never seen anything like that. And then of course you know the fda and everybody a i think pray. A lot of the protocols were stripped away to get this thing to market because the whole country wanted it to happen. But i don't believe this would have happened in any other environment with any other president and he gave credit to the company the pharmaceutical companies and he gave credit to everybody else and then at the end grudgingly he said in yes even former president donald trump. Well what the hell this guy made it. Hap- he drove this buggy. He whipped he pushed. He gave no alternative and coming from a business background. He had an approach that no other president. All of them practically spending a good portion of their adult professional careers in politics. I i think they would have accepted that. It would have taken longer and he just refused to accept. He willed it to happen well. Back in october there was an article by caroline hicks. That said white house. Deputy chief of staff says covid nineteen vaccine likely available by end of twenty twenty one. It was part of operation warp speed. There were some who laughed that this would happen. There was some who denied that it would happen but very few people believed that it could happen. And guess what we now take for. Granted it did had we not been in an election year and had it not been president trump else they would have won the nobel peace prize. That deputy chief of staff is former louisiana congressman and then assistant to the president for planning and implementation and former And and not former still. Dr louisiana's own doctor john fleming. Who is our guest. Dr fleming talk to me about your involvement in operation warp speed including the president's expectation. That we get this thing done quickly and your understanding that this is not an easy thing to do but well michael Thanks for having me on. If i could. I'd like to make one correction. I you said that. I said by the end of twenty twenty one. I'm sorry twenty twenty. Yep you're. I'm reading it directly. You're right so But you're quite right. I've got the scars and bruises to show that president trump when he wants something done at like spe- You move mountains to do it. And of course i mean that tongue in cheek. Of course He was he's a very Really great guy to work for full of grace. And i'd love to do it again sometime But he definitely put the pressure on so let's back up for a second. Remember that one of the things that set donald trump apart as a builder developer businessman in new york city was he took on a an outdoor skating. Rink that nobody could get Put back into action and he did it in record time way under budget and that tells you something about the man and what he expects what he can do so when the pandemic hit very early on we own the the Coronavirus virus taskforce and inside the white house in the west wing and so forth knew that the ultimate solution is the president. You ask the cdc. The ultimate solution was going to be immunizations and while we needed to many many. Other things like p. e. You know protective things and then later and all that we must begin immediately developing a vaccine as the only way we really stopped this pandemic and so work was begun however I'm not aware of any vacc- that was developed anywhere. Close to this maybe two to five years. In some cases some cases ten years twelve years and yet it was done in really up approximately nine to ten months and so the question is how did we do that without cutting corners and the answer is very simple. number one the technology and vaccines has advanced tremendously and using the m innate. The messenger are vaccine which modern adviser Really help things to make fast in effect. That was number one number two. The president had the idea that we buy down the risk. Normally a pharmaceutical company will develop the vaccine tested on animals then tested on the few human subjects Wait to see what happens And they would be very careful with dollar investment because many of these just don't work out and that money is wasted so they typically go very carefully and they wait until it's fully approved by the fda before they even begin manufacturing and what president trump said. In what operation warp speed did under the tutelage of the coronavirus taskforce. Which i sort of going as you say Was to say. Look do it all in parallel. Let's do it simultaneously this. Pick six or seven great candidates vaccines. Let's test them. Less manufacturer them almost simultaneously and whatever the cost star will be born by government and that was of course developed in the cares act that was passed for billions of dollars was spent to take away that financial risk for parma pseudo companies so in the end the way it was accomplished in record time was to simply say look. Everybody get to work. This is going to be a public private partnership and it was. It took the pharmaceutical companies with their industrial might and power and all of the innovation intelligence they had but it took government with its power. That's really the defense Production act and many other things to put the resources in place so it could all happen so neither one could have done it by themselves but it was all under the careful. Watch of donald trump. our president. I'm going to be up against a break here in just a minute dark fleming. But i'd like to go through and get allude granular as to this process. Kind of a time. Line of that. I guess pfizer had the first vaccine that came to market. But when you first start you know you've got a virus in the early days. We didn't know that much about the virus you know. We were developing knowledge as we went along. I don't know what information y'all have presumably a lot more than the public did. But how do you begin. The process of directing these companies in giving them some level of direction as to how to begin this vaccine. Or do the or do you say come to us with ideas. What's the germ of that. Well i specifically when it comes to developing a vaccine against the virus What's important is to get the dna footprint of that virus and again that's another advancement. We have over prior years. Remember that when we developed the polio vaccine his smallpox vaccine those things. We we didn't have that information. We weren't able to determine what the actual dna signature was of the virus so we have many capabilities today. So the president turned it over to the nih And to the cdc the experts in this not the political but the experts within these and he said look. We're going to supply all the money you need. And we're also going to engage with the us army which has a big role in vaccine development for obvious reasons because this could be involved in a national emergency which it actually was and so he brought everybody together. And that's when we develop the corona virus taskforce so all the key members all the agencies that health and human services thema united states army military in general all of that under the vice president and ultimately the president of the united states so it took bringing all of these experts together and all the newest technologies and the best minds and putting all the money necessary behind it. And that's really it's done so you get the dna footprint and then you begin. My wife has done more research on this than i have. But as she explains it to me The johnson and johnson vaccine which came later is a different sort of methodology of how you you vaccinate versus the early. Two one is kind of i. Guess the johnson and johnson is more sort of alive virus type thing in but can you talk about which approach was chosen in how those decisions were arrived at. Well the first two were messing your day and again. That's the newest technology and quite honestly We weren't so sure that that was going to be the best technology. It's really not that We don't have a lot of experience. As it turns out it was excellent because both in the during our ninety. Five percent. Effective and Johnson and johnson really can't make that claim your right johnson. Johnson did use an older technology using adenoviruses a vehicle. But it's still a very good vaccine But we didn't use a a live virus for for any vaccine intact. I'm not aware that we've used a live virus perhaps since The saving poliovirus some years ago because there is risk to ally vars some people with compromised immune systems can actually end up getting the disease. So what we do is target certain antigens which are proteins that are specific to the dna characteristics of the virus that we target and once. We know what those protein antigens are. We develop a virus. That will neutralize that Or neutralize the organism that contains that very special a specific protein. And so. that's the reason why. these These vaccines work so well. Also why the mutants probably are not going to survive the vaccine because they still contain some of the basic protein images that we develop these vaccines against so while we may see mutations and while they may not respond to the same level always in general the vaccines we've already developed should be very effective against all strains that may come from this virus dr fleming. You've been a congressman. You've been a doctor. You're a military veteran. You've been a businessman. You has served as deputy assistant secretary for health information technology reform. You've been assistant secretary of commerce for economic development. You've been assistant. President trump for planning and implementation is operation warp speed the single greatest accomplishment of your career. Well you know. I tell it when people ask me What are you gonna do next. I often say well. I haven't decided what i'm gonna be when i grow up so Who knows what lays ahead for me. i would say that i i really michael can't claim credit for operation warp speed. I wouldn't even begin to do that. It was the great experts. The experts scientists within. But i did have a role in delivering it to develop the funding for it and so forth But i met with them. They would actually report to me once a week. Give me updates not only on the vaccine but the monoclonal and other things that have been life saving remdesivir which is an antiviral. They were working on all of that at the same time. but also served on the opera on the coronavirus task force which worked closely with operation warp speed. And so all i can say is that it was one of the greatest privileges of my life to simultaneously serve only steps away from the president united states. Donald trump a man who i have humongous Respect for who. In my opinion i will go into a go. Go down in history. Very likely is the best president we've ever had certainly in modern times But also associated with all the great people that he broke into the mix that develop solutions that even though we've lost over a half million americans think of all the millions of americans. He will have saved by doing what he did. And i'm just delighted so privileged haven't been associated with these great people who accomplish this. What was serving with president trump. Like for people who've only seen the public persona. I always asked this question. And i'm fascinated by the responses. I get you know. I've been with him in the oval office Actually spent a weekend with him with other people at camp david. And when you're with him in a small group He's totally different than what you see on. Tv he's very kind full of grace. deferential asking others opinions complimenting people around the table so but he's always in chart. I've never been in a room with him that he wasn't in charge in all of the Interest all of the attention is directed at him. He commands attention when he's in room. Big or small and But he said the like to be around and quite honestly he's hilariously funny I remember We met one. Sunday operation warp speed. And you know things were off. I mean these were dark days. I'm talking about back in april about a year ago and Normally we would meet with the vice president but president trump actually showed up and took a seat at the head of the table. And we're all sitting around the table and we're beginning to talk about things in suddenly and i don't recall it was but someone at the table. Sneezed and president trump jumped up and ran out of the room quickly And in return. Of course the whole thing Really kind of Was funny and his timing and so forth was was appropriate and it was all to sort of get us. Relax jedis get us thinking. Get us focused on solving america's problems in a very difficult time but when you're around him he is. He is just hilarious. Always cracking jokes and always doing so appropriately you know sometimes a can appoint like that can really lighten the mood and say everything's going to go. Well it's not an easy thing to do i. I remember hearing the story. About joe montana and they were in the The huddle and this is before the the big drive that wins it all and you know. They have two minutes in five seconds left. I think in ninety yards to go and odds are against him. And there's a tv timeout in there in the huddle and they're waiting on joe montana and everyone is tense and he says oh my goodness. That's john candy. That's john candy on the sideline and john was on. The opposing team sideline and the fact that he could be that calm told them his he's going to be okay. We're gonna be fine. He's not tense at all. And i think that's what that joke in a moment like that says to people. I read that operation warp speed. The the title. That term came from star trek. Is that true. Well i know that the the the term Travel at warp speed. I believe Came from You know from one of the famous movies. But i i honestly don't know that name was given to it Before i came to the white house in march But i it's anyone's guess but i think it's so appropriate. You know when you think back as to how dark those days were the daily press conferences in the afternoon. The uncertainty created such an anxiety You know i liken it to when you realize the second tower went down you realize okay. This is terrorism But i remember interviewing president bush. We didn't know who it was. We didn't know how many more there were to come. We didn't know you know what had happened. And so the uncertainty the limitless possibilities of awful that loomed. Or what's so frightening. Talk to me. Dr fleming if you would about that time and how you get through it well you're right There was a lot of uncertainty around this farce in about what was going to happen You could have taken a very optimistic view and say look we've had these scares me anytime before The sars virus other things that were threatened To this country that never turned out to be much. I can remember the swine flu That was threatening back in the nineteen seventies and we ended up vaccinating a lot of people across the country and We never really saw any real effects from the swine flu So but on the other hand You can take a dark in dire prediction and look at the pandemic of nineteen seventeen and say you know we could see millions of people so you really don't know you're so right about that. Michael it could be anywhere in between and of course we've seen dr fauci say nothing. No need to wear masks. No need to shut down travel and then reversed himself and say we need to wear to mass and everybody needs to stay in their homes and just you know. Shut down schools and And in in jobs so ultimately That's why you have a smart man like president. Donald trump a man who has made weighty decisions maybe in his life just sort of listen to the inputs you know. Read the science get to give him the various options. That's why you need a man or woman You know if it were a female president. Who has that experience and knowledge to really make those kind of decisions. But you're so right. In the beginning we had no idea how bad are really How how really little that. This might impact us doubt it. Impact is quite a bit. Let me ask you dr. john. Fleming is our guest assistant to president trump for planning and implementation. You must have a window into my mind. Because i wanted to figure out a way to bring she up and now that you've done how did you feel when you would watch Found she go before the cameras and seem almost to be engaged in subterfuge seem to be working with the media against the president. He contradicted himself constantly. How did you feel watching that happening. You know. I can sort of understand where he's coming from As a as a physician My perception of that was he had this huge reputation. that's built up having to do with hiv disease and so forth This this You know disreputable reputa- that he wanted to preserve. And i think that he would. He would make predictions that were extreme in some cases on either side at different times so that anybody called him out and said look. You were wrong about that. He could always point to a statement that he made. It did agree with whatever the ultimate outcome was. So i think that's what's important here to understand about dr fauci. Is he I in as much as he was camera hound and my goodness we all know he was. He loves the camera. He wanted to be sure that no matter what he said he could always point to a statement late wrong. That would actually support what really happened. I don't think he was any big friend of the trump administration. He seems to be much more I should say friendly or compliant with the biden administration so we can accept that we understand that of course But at the end of the day. I think it's more about his interest in being a public figure but not being criticized by his his colleagues and his cohorts in the science community. Having gotten it wrong as it turns out. He got a lot of things wrong. And i mentioned him before. He said we didn't need math. I was in the room when he was telling everybody this. And it didn't make sense to me and then again he to totally reversed himself and Then said that we should keep shutdown america and we have but then he's been really slow to To to really suggest that we should get back to work the way we must so At the end of the day. I just think it's about him and his reputation more than anything but he was really he really fouled up and confused the messaging coming out of the white house and i know the president was very frustrated with that. Well he not only confused the messaging he seemed to politicize the messaging at a time when we least needed that and i found that troubling dr john fleming is our guest. Former louisiana congressman. He was assistant president trump for planning and implementation. Let me ask you. You know with with the year behind us. We've learned so much we've come so far looking back not to say that it was done in error. But what would you do differently. And maybe it didn't do anything wrong. It's just it would be different knowing what we know now. Well actually Was assigned to take lawyers and experts from both the vice president's office and the president's to do a look back of how we dealt with a pandemic what we had in resources and what we should do better in the future and it actually Created a paper. I should say more likely. It's a book that was delivered to the vice president. The president and the chief of staff and it was mainly focused on. What is it that we need to be prepared for in the next pandemic and first and foremost is the ability to To to measure data and to report We didn't know what hospitals needed a ventilator. We didn't know what hospitals needed Face masks or you know the in ninety five. We know who needed gloves. We didn't know how many patients were going to various hospitals. How many people were dying. The system for that is very very antiquated Based on snail mail and faxes so our first recommendation is that all needs to be cleaned up and it was greatly improved on a temporary basis. But still a lot of phone calls a lot of faxes. That were really unnecessary in this digital age. Also restoring. Our capabilities are manufacturing capabilities or critical China was literally turning chips around of p. That had already been ordered even before the pandemic knowing they were gonna need it like us. They turned the ships around. So not only were we not getting a normal supply but it was being taken away from us so we learned that we need to have. We don't necessarily have to manufacture reuse For medical emergencies. But we need to be able to scale up very quickly So we learned many of those kind of lessons But i would say that the things that make a difference about this the development of monocle. Antibodies development of vaccines The ability to communicate. I think to the country i think those were all done right by this. By this administration that being the trump administration of course and of course the biden administration is enjoying the benefits of that. Because everything they're doing to continue delivering. Vaccines is exactly the plan. Set out by trump last summer so So i think we got it right but there are some ways that administration can be better prepared for dealing with the next pandemic and surely there will be another one someday. Dr john fleming is our guest You know before we had a vaccine How we treat corona virus patients. You know there was a high higher level of of more talent higher level of fatalities a terminal illness when this thing started then we. We've gotten much better with that right as we've learned and learned quickly the medical community particularly and even individuals. You know what what to do differently when the president came out and spoke of hydroxychloroquine in the media suggested that this was a horrible thing to do. My wife is from india. Her mother was a doctor in rural. India had her own clinic in their house. And my wife said we've been using hydroxychloroquine in the third world for years for these sorts of things it works. It's not a crazy idea that he's come up with. I had a doctor from nigeria Stella emmanuel come out and say this is exactly what i'm doing to treat patients. I'm getting great results. There were several things that the president pointed to that they ridiculed him and acted like he was some sort of a criminal for suggesting that later once he was gone. They admitted no. This is actually good. Did that disturb you to see medical care politicized like that well. It did bothers me greatly because as a physician I've never chosen a of action for patient. Care that was based on anything political It's in my mind is always been what's been tested and proven and what's best for the patient with a full knowledge by the patient and the ultimate decision made by the patient as to what course of action to take. Now here's the situation. Remember that when this pandemic hit we had no tests for so we had to figure that out and And we did. We eventually did then we had to say. What can we treat this with. And we look around and we see there's nothing available. There's nothing developed But there were reports that came out. That said roxie corkman could be Through semantic godal and small-scale studies could be effective. but we didn't know so Is it a safe drug. Yeah it's got a great a great track record as you point out there is this has been used many years for the prophylaxis of malaria With great outcomes It's also used by arthritic patients with great results So it's safe has got to save a track record in the end when we did do the rigorous studies necessary. We found that it really is not effective. But if that's the only thing you have and you have some anecdotal information that says it might be effective. Then what the heck what are you have to lose. And so the president believes that he should promote whatever might be possibly effective until such time. We did develop effective treatments. And we did that was the monoclonal is the remdesivir. We found out that heparin can be effective late in the in the disease So there were many things that We we learned could improve outcomes with patients but the point being here that there was absolutely no harm in promoting hydroxychloroquine and understanding that. It might actually help some people. But that's really all we had when that's all you got to go well and and i have the full understanding that we didn't know what we didn't know and and somebody had to make decisions that had to be a tough place to be because it's a it's a big burden it's a big burden. The fears of the nation. That was a great deal of anxiety. There were a high number of of factions. You had particularly. New york was seeing a terrible terrible situation and it was something the likes of which in the modern era we hadn't seen on that level so i can only imagine what what that was like. President trump wanted to be very clear that china played a role if not in how this thing emerged and developed Then how it was being discussed and when we were alerted What was your thought. How important is it that we make that history understands how this thing spread and the role of the chinese communist party in preventing us from knowing it earlier and what was going on and prevent us to this day from seeing what happened in the wuhan lab. Well you know. Dr redfield the former director of cdc during this period in the trump administration has come out and said The all evidence points to the fact that this was a virus created in a laboratory environment that escaped because we know that this lab Really had poor techniques in terms of safety and protection so it it. It seems pretty clear that that's really how the virus spread this whole idea that it came from that That's been pretty much discounted. The of that might have carried. This are not even in that area. I mean what's the chance that the one Major viral lab in the entire country china which is huge That the outbreak would occur right there that laboratory. I mean it just common sense empirically. You've got to understand. That's that's gotta be the origin of it and we we've had absolutely no transparency from w. joe or china and And that's all very distressing because this could easily happen again. So it's important that we put pressure on countries like china to do the right thing and to be transparent and also let us help them if they would allow us to show them how to protect against these accidents. I don't think it was done on purpose. But i do think it was an accident and i think it could happen again and who knows what could come out of this one so it could mutate into something more dangerous later on So there's a lot that needs to be done and again it goes to show you that close country under. Communism is a danger to the world. John calvin fleming junior. You serve this country as a member of our armed services you have served in public life as a public servant. You have served patients as a doctor. You have served the country as the assistant president trump for planning and implementation. I thank you for your time. What an amazing amazing experience you've had. It's good to know that folks like you were at the right hand of the president as it all went down. Thank you sir. Thank you. Michael just Look i appreciate the opportunity to be able to express how enriching the experience was for me working with president and all the tremendous people around him to be their historic time of the pandemic I feel very privileged and honored to have done that But again that is part of my life in service both as a physician and as someone working in government whether it's elected or By way of appointment With this great president. And so hopefully. I've made my contribution to make this world just a little bit better and i look forward to future opportunities doing so and i would also Really prey upon your your listeners To look what opportunities do you have in your community whether it's healthcare other things to volunteer to serve to do things to make this world a better place for your fellow man and And i it against always great to talk with you. Michael and look forward to getting with you again sometime. Thank you sir.
Trumps imaginary enemy.
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Let's work together. Visit ZIPRECRUITER DOT com slash work together to learn more wealth. Nepad Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Dan pfeiffer on today's pod. Dan Talks to Jason Golden Former White House chief digital officer who also worked on the founding team at twitter about how Joe Biden another Democratic candidates can get more creative with their digital strategy ahead of November for that we'll talk through trump's immigration order the coming fight over economic stimulus and we will take a few of your questions but first check out. This week's pod save the world to find out what's going on with all those rumors that North Korean leader Kim Jong is gravely ill in here. Some wild speculation about what comes next time and Ben also talk about how the price of oil can be negative? Israel finally probably forming a government. And then they take a walk on the Albright side with former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright. What does this tell me right? But this time you write these. I think he does. I think he does the walk on the bright side. Is that a thing it is now? I thought it was a walk on the wild side. Anyway great you should listen to the episode. We also want to thank the more than three thousand of you who've used votes America dot com slash call to tell Congress that they need to include funding to make election safe accessible as part of their next corona virus package. It's amazing keep the calls coming but we also want to hear directly from you. Why do you need safe? Voting options whether you have a pre existing condition that puts you at risk or just. Don't feel safe volunteering at the polls We want to hear your story. Send us a video at three. Two three four zero five nine nine four four so we can share your story and send a message to every elected official about how important this is and why we need them to take action again. That number is three two three four zero five nine nine four. Send us a video. Tell us why you WanNa make sure This election is safe to vote in a get some news. Donald Trump's approval rating is back in the low forties. Stan Fox News polls have down eight points to Joe Biden in Michigan and Pennsylvania. Quinnipiac has him down four points in Florida. His internal polls are showing similar problems. Which I'm sure has absolutely nothing to do with why he tweeted this on Monday night. Quote in light of the attack from the invisible enemy as well as the need to protect the jobs of our great American citizens I will be signing an executive order to temporarily suspend immigration into the United States. Dan It turns out the order. He actually signed was not quite as sweeping as the tweet. What does it do and what doesn't it do? I know people should probably sit down because turned out that this one singular time Donald Trump said something. That was not true. So just be prepared. People anything's possible. What it does is effective today. I believe for sixty days. The United States suspend entry to foreigners who do not have immigrate immigrant visa already in hand. It doesn't affect immigrants already. United States is not effect the families of US citizens who are trying to get immigrant visas does not affect migrant workers it very limited prescribed thing that was primarily a press release masquerading as executive order. Also they can also vote for medical professionals anyone on a temporary visa so it's basically employment based visas for people who haven't for people who are outside the country which had basically been halted already because most people in the world already can't come to America right now because of Corona virus So just to so. Everyone has an idea like about two hundred thousand. People got these visas last year and the type that he suspended for sixty days and so most of the people that affects wouldn't be able to come here anyway right now though. There's still a good amount of people who were trying to come to the United States for quite a while and now will be held up because of this order. It's it's interesting. It was interesting to me that he didn't just make it about or he didn't even primarily make it about corona virus in sort of protecting us from people from other countries with the virus coming here and affecting people. He made it about protecting American jobs. Will this actually protect American jobs? Dan Now they will not. I mean every study shows that immigration is good for the economy. It helps us grow the economy which helps create jobs it. This is a right-wing racists myth they have been pedaling for decades now and trump is just this is he has been the chief Paddler of this racist. Republican meth for a long time. Just to think about this like twenty six million people have filed for unemployment in this country and as I just mentioned. Two hundred thousand people applied for these cases last year. You know what a big tell here is that he made a carve out for guests workers farm workers and medical professionals because even donald trump or at least government realize that this country runs on immigrant labor and the parts of the economy that are currently running on a lot of immigrant labor. He has allowed that to continue you. Say parts of the economy. Do you mean trump wineries trump hotel those parts of the economy but just the Washington Post gave a good example. There was a Brazilian jujitsu expert. Who was about to start his own gym in the United States? How many people would that have hired right like there are people who are coming here? Every day to open businesses to start businesses to hire Americans to grow the economy. The Wall Street Journal the Liberal Left Wing Wall Street Journal had an editorial about this where they said if immigrants steal American jobs why were there millions of unfilled jobs before the Pandemic Good Point Wall Street Journal editorial board so clearly trump did this because he thinks it's good politics and there is unfortunately some evidence for that recent USA? Today Paul showed eighty percent of Americans support temporarily stopping immigration from all other countries during the pandemic. What do you think about the politics here? I think like some caveats here. The first is just in general Democrats. We have to stop. Treating trump is some sort of like political sewer who who's figuring out who's cracked the code on how to win elections. We never were net. We can never get rid of that. Every I mean I think it's partly because of the surprise of twenty sixteen but it's like look at twenty eighteen. Look at all the other special elections a lot of other evidence that has built up so far. I mean he stumbled ass backwards into the presidency on a wave of voter suppression and Third Party voting. In a collection of black swan circumstances involving Jim Komi and the Russians and all of that and in electro college venture like the best piece of evidence that even in two thousand sixteen was not some sort of political genius. Is He won? Wisconsin with fewer votes. The Mitt Romney got in two thousand twelve. Romney lost by seven points. He ran behind noted empty. Suit and conspiracy theorist peddling crank Ron Johnson in Wisconsin and as you just pointed out he has lost virtually every election in blue purple state. That has happened since he won. So he's not a political genius. The having said all of that the I think just because something did not and I don't think immigration is why he wanted two thousand sixteen. I think it's why he won the Republican primary. I don't think it's why. He Won. The general election primarily having said all of that we're living in a very different context right now and when you get into tough economic times voters look for someone to blame and ache and Republicans have had great success over the years blaming people who are not like their voters right so that that is immigrants poor people you know sort of the. It's The an randy and Paul Ryan makers take situation and so there is like trump's ability to use. This argument is amplified in this new political environment. Where people are fighting for jobs and it wasn't a time of historic unemployment five weeks ago. Yeah I mean I don't I mean you know. He signed the order Wednesday night. I think there was sort of less of an uproar than even I thought there would be. I think he wanted to provoke a political debate That he didn't really seem to provoke And so we're all sort of moving on but I do think this is going to be a big part of the campaign. I mean He. You know he's going to say to Joe Biden. There's twenty seven million people out of work. Why do you think immigrants should start coming into this country again? After the first sixty days is up your plan is to give citizenship to undocumented immigrants to have immigration to this country. Why do you think we should have immigrants coming to to to take jobs when we have twenty seven million Americans out of work and I think he's going to frame his economic plan as one where he's going to stop immigration and put American jobs first? And then you know when you look at polling numbers like that what is what is Joe Biden. Say What are the Democrats say? Yeah I mean immigration such an interesting political issue on a whole host of reasons a host of vectors. But the like he tried this and two thousand seventeen remember. He made a bunch of immigration. Ms Thirteen attack ads in tweets in Virginia against North He really will. Never Forget. The Caravan of seven-year-old Ms Thirteen members who are moving quite slowly to the American border during two thousand eighteen. But he tweeted about it and the Kentucky Governor's race like he's tried it in. It's all these contacts and immigration in times of relatively good economy immigration does work with trump's base. Because it's not about jobs it's about changing American identity. It's losing this Maga- America where political power and cultural power was in the hands of White Christians primarily. Right it's this. Change his fear of change. In a tougher economy becomes one of who gets the benefits of the economy and like he could like success. What I thought was interesting about this was trump is suffering a little bit from being the President who cried wolf because you know like we yell about the press time I think overwhelmingly. The press were sceptical when he said it they nailed him for not doing what he was going to say. I think Democrats in Congress and others handled it appropriately and didn't take the bait. Now it's one thing to respond to a trump tweet in a trump executive for it's another thing when trump weaponize is Biden's immigration plan as his economically. We're going to have some good conversation. About how how you navigate that situation. How do we navigate that situation? You had the answer. Maybe I think that after sixty days the first thing is okay. Donald Trump You said that you were going to protect American jobs with this. Immigration Order. Suspension of immigration is the unemployment rate. Better more Americans have jobs clearly. It's I think you have. I point out that it's ineffective that it's not gonNA work. It just didn't really protect American jobs. Then I think you have to hit him for not having a real economic plan and I think you have to say he wants to blame. He wants us to blame each other. He wants he wants to divide us against each other when the real source of the problem is Donald Trump and the Republican party WanNa protect their rich friends and the wealthy corporations. And they don't WanNa do shit for most people in this country who are working in the middle of or horn who are out of work in the middle of this horrible recession. And I think that's I think we're about to talk about sort of the economics of all this but Donald Trump and the Republicans do not have any semblance of an economic plan to deal with what could be the greatest crisis we face since the Great Depression. They don't because all they've done so far is make it easier for their rich friends to get tax breaks and government funding while. There's a ton of people who are out of work and they're going to tell you that it's all about immigration and they're lying because they've tried to suspend immigration and it hasn't fucking works so. I think that's exactly right. I mean that's what you're ultimately Democrats need to do. And I'm very encouraged by what we've seen in the first four hours from did this is. You don't play trump's game you call it up right. Explain why he's trying to divide Americans what he's trying to distract from as you said the fact that he massively fumbled this response. I would just put us in this race. Trying to distract from the fact that the benefits of the economic every package often going to large corporations. He's trying to help his friends and punish his enemies in the situation and so calling out what trump is doing explaining why he why he's lying not just that he is lying or not just that he is dividing racially but why he's doing those things and what is trying to to distract from gives us an opportunity to pivot back to the issues that motivate our voters and persuade the voters. We need because that is always like this has been trump's political superpower to date is. He has the ability to move the political conversation onto the issues that excite his base in. Don't do very much for our base and we ended up to be able to pivot back to the issue said that matter for us which is economic inequality healthcare funding for working people in the middle class. Immigrants Aren't trying to kick you off your health insurance. Donald Trump and the Republicans are trying to kick you off your health insurance by going to court to repeal the affordable care act. Imigrants aren't trying to keep your wages low or keep you out of work. Donald Trump and the Republicans are by refusing to support a fifteen dollars minimum wage. And refusing to extend unemployment insurance. You know I think you just have to continue to bring it back to what trump and the Republican party is doing and and reveal what. He's doing on immigration as a tactic to divide us to avoid blame for what he has done. So let's talk about the political fight over how to dig the economy out of this crisis on Tuesday The Senate passed by unanimous consent. A four hundred eighty four billion dollar corona virus relief. Bill that will help. Small businesses avoid layoffs fund hospitals and expand testing but with tens of millions of people out of work for God knows how long Almost everyone agrees will need least another stimulus bill. Democrats in Congress Democratic and Republican governors mayors economists even Donald Trump who tweeted about the need for relief to state and local governments infrastructure. And then all kinds of tax cuts. The big exception here is majority leader Mitch. Mcconnell and some other Republicans in Congress McConnell told reporters that he's concerned about the debt and that it's time to hit pause so Dan the guy who edit about two trillion dollars to the national debt with a tax cut that mostly benefit. The rich is now suddenly worried about the debt again. What's going on here well? I'm sure that this is a principle political position for Mitch. Mcconnell a man known for his principles I mean. Just fuck off. I mean it's just so absurd and just the shameless cynicism that emanates from everything that man dies is it's truly golic and it just. We should always know that. Mitch McConnell will go down in history. As one of the worst. Most dangerous people ever been involved in American politics. He is as responsible for Donald trump being president as anyone else. He's more responsible. Now trump being president than donald trump or Putin or anyone else it is Mitch McConnell. What he has done to regard democracy both in the short term long term so he is terrible full. Stop there are like what he is doing here is that was. He doesn't give a shit about the deficit. Picture is like that's obvious you sit at what he I think. There are two things that drive the sentiment. One is for as bad as Mitch. Mcconnell is. He's also quite savvy and what he tends to do is come out. And publicly opposed thinks he privately supports so that when he gets so that he can then trade them and treat them as a concession in negotiation so obviously is very much a McConnell's interest to help the economy because he's trying to hold onto the Senate in a bad economy. Means it's GonNa be hard for Senate incumbents to win and so he obviously wants to put more money in the economy but if he comes out against it Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer Situation of getting the thing they also want. The McConnell treats is a concession and can traded for something Democrats. Don't want so it savvy. It's no good it's GonNa go. She deployed the only thing that I think undermines. It is politicians particularly once who've been around forever and since Mitch McConnell's vampire. He is most certainly been around forever. They're always defined by their most devastating electoral experiences like Democrats around the nineteen. Ninety-four have this sort of St reaction at gun issues because of the but I think incorrect view that the assault weapons ban went to the Republicans taking congressman Andy for like a lot of Republicans. Truly believe that of the reasons. They got clobbered at Oh. Six Zero Eight is because of the huge amount of spending that pushed it on the Iraq war on the tax cut on the Medicare prescription drug benefit. And so I think McConnell does have some fear that being painted as big spenders is going to diminish Republican turnout. I don't think he's absolutely correct about that. But I think that Dr some of his messaging I mean you think that would go out the window in the middle of a pandemic and Near Depression so the issue here is is focused around money to state and local governments which has been supported not just by Democrats by by Republican governors and McConnell said this the other day about sending money to state governments quote. We all have governors regardless of party. Who would love to have free money? And that's why I said yesterday we're going to push the pause button here because I think this whole business of additional assistance for state and local governments need to be thoroughly evaluated McConnell instead suggested state should be allowed to declare bankruptcy which they're currently prohibited from doing under federal law. What's this all about hiding? This is as referencing negotiating tactic because Democrats are very much going to want to these states. Eight it was at the centerpiece of a battle this past week over phase. Three three and a half face where it was it was three and a half whereabout about. We're now talking about four. Okay all right so phase three and a half part of the big battle. Democrats one was this aid to local governments because they are. They're just their budgets are being busted by this because they're spending all this money on helping hospitals and doctors and getting in trying to get these get tests from all over the world because the trump administration sucks their tax base. Like everyone else is going way down because no one's working and what that ultimately means is important to recognize this. The Federal Government can borrow money to pay for right which is exactly what we Newark. These trillions of dollars for the deficit. Yeah Henson have set. Almost every state has a state law that requires them to balance their budget and so when a expenses exceed revenue they have to make cuts and what that means is oftentimes in is that they are going to have to cut the pay or layoffs state employees now Republicans will pitch state employees as nameless faceless bureaucrats. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about public schoolteachers. Firefighters cops. Many people who are on the frontlines fighting the coronavirus healthcare workers schools like this millions. More jobs here economy where people have already lost a lot of jobs ness in. It is just worth just putting a fine point on that. The Republican position is it is okay for the Federal Government to borrow money to give massive tax cuts to corporations that did nothing other than enrich the rich but they are not okay with borrowing money to ensure that teachers firefighters and cops do not get laid off in the middle of pandemic that is their position. That is who they are fighting for in there. Also specifically going after pensions to McConnell. Keep saying this. We don't want to give money to state governments to help fund their pensions. Pensions are why they might have to declare bankruptcy so so basically the retirement of all these people who teachers healthcare workers cobs firefighters who've worked their whole lives and earned the pension and now basically McConnell saying well no they should just because there was a pandemic they should have to be poor and retirement. That's that's to be very clear that position. The Republican Party is that they want to cut Medicare and social security and deny people their pensions and again. Like and it's I mean. It's the position of the Republican Party. Because it's McConnell and all these Republican Congress but like you have people like Larry Hogan of Maryland Charlie Baker in Massachusetts like there are a number of Republican governors throughout the country who are also asking for this money for this funding. And yet there's Mr Mitch. Mcconnell who again is using it as a negotiating. Chit what should Democrats do about this? Should they talk about this? How should they approach negotiations with McConnell and the other congressional Republicans in this round man? I thought you had a very good conversation about this on Monday. And they should take a maximum position and they should pass a Nancy Pelosi. Democrats should pass a face for. They should be the one to control the pen on this and force McConnell to react and I think how they do it is very important and it's a member Tommy making this recent podcast that it's gotta be big bolden progressive but not seem like a Christmas tree where there's a whole bunch of different little things on there and because it's ultimately a negotiating in messaging document and so you wanna you wanNA optimize it for those two factors as opposed to like what is the absolute all encompassing policy right. Because all the things that were in the bill they almost fat pass in phase. Three room seem like really good things but they they weren't. They didn't necessarily help the politics of the bill. So we think about it from a political perspective. Would you if you were Pelosi? Would you pass a bill out of the House before starting just negotiate with Republicans over a bill? Yes yes I think they should pass a bill out of the House for sure aid because also you want something to run on. Yeah. I don't understand why they wouldn't do this. I do. I do understand why this is hard and this is always the conversation that we have with externally and internally about how hard it is to be a democratic leader is many of the policies members are not going to want to vote for a bill with a very large price tag that is not going to become law. Like how many troy multi trillion dollar votes? Do you want to take in one year right? You WanNa Save Your vote for the things. That are actually the bill. That's going to deliver the trillions of dollars to people and so that is I think there will be some resistance within her caucus to do that now. I don't necessarily. I don't agree with that political calculus at that as a mistake. I think you're better off. Offering voters a road map of what it would look like a unified democratic control. Then one line in one attack at about what you voted for. Now you've already voted for several trillion dollars. What is one more turning out to make a substance political difference? But that will be my guess. Is that the internal caucus pressure on plus leadership. I mean I understand that in normal times the fear about voting for something with a high price tag because as much as we know that This whole argument over deficits are stupid. We have seen multiple focus groups multiple polls where most Americans don't quite get how deficits and debt work and they think to themselves. I have a budget. Why doesn't Washington have a budget right so like this sort of political calculus? That goes on in normal times. I think that Democrats underestimate the pain and anger and rage and fury that is building in this country at their peril and like Donald. Trump is in charge right now. Mitch McConnell is in charge of the Senate right now and I think like even these frontline Democrats like look at. Your district's talked to the people in your district who are out of work. Who were worried about rent? Who were worried that they're gonNA lose their job who've already lost their job who can't pay mortgage like. I think that there. I don't think there is a price to pay as there is. Maybe a normal times about you know supporting a very big ambitious bill that focuses on putting people back to work and taking care of people who are out of work and making sure that everyone has healthcare during this pandemic like. I just don't think there is a price to that. Like there may be in other times. Yeah I mean I think I think that is most likely correct but what the political reality of the moment is what drives the inherent political fear in vulnerable politicians. Either Party or not always the same thing. Yeah no that is true. Let's talk about what Joe Biden should do here. So he's also been pushing for another big stimulus bill. He's agreed with what most of the Democratic leadership has called for but he has been relatively quiet about the details Do you think that's just to give Schumer in policy to negotiate this deal because you know he's not in office yet and if so is the right player well I think it is the only play the Joe Biden ever like there is a world where if someone was a different and I think less serious person and Biden? Were you could run against everyone right. This is not enough Washington. His failed Ju I would do. X Y and Z and Joe Biden is an institution lists and so he would not do that but he also knows how to get things done and he knows he's planning on winning this election and he is planning on Chuck Schumer being the leader of the Senate. Nancy Pelosi being the speaker of the House and working with them to fix the mess. Trump left him so he's not going to score political points to the expense of congressional Democrats. It is just not consistent with who he is. And even if that I don't think in the short-term but it like he's willing to pass up some political opportunities because it doesn't help the party writ large and I think he I do believe that he wants to be. He does not want to have only victory right. He wants to bring everyone along with them. I get that too but I also you know. Barack Obama was also `institutionalised in he had to balance in two thousand eight during the financial crisis appearing as a steady competent leader who had a lot of experts around him who could get the country through the crisis and also channeling the rage in frustration. That people felt towards Washington and Wall Street for what had happened to the economy. And I do think Biden should probably air a little bit more towards the side of channeling. The the populist anger like you said Joe Biden's never going to be Bernie Sanders rightly we get that. But you know Joe Biden is like middle-class Joe the guy from Scranton. He does have it within his character to fight on behalf of working working people who were upset who were angry like he hit. We have seen him do it before and I do an end look. I looked on his website last night. Like he's got he's got a plan there you know he's he's talking about You know forgiving ten thousand dollars of student loans like Senator Warren has proposed increasing Social Security. Checks two hundred dollars a month. A senator wyden proposed emergency paid sick leave for everyone. Who needs it making sure that no one has to pay a dollar out of pocket for covert testing treatment or vaccine? He's got fiscal relief to states and local governments. So he's got a lot of the elements there on his website I just wonder if he has to sort of do a little bit more. To Channel that anger you these are sort of two separate but not inconsistent. Things right one is can you channel the anger of the American people? Yes and he in the past in the campaign in two thousand twelve. He was very very good that he is someone who both publicly and privately thinks about and fights for working class people. The People here like you and I have been in many economic meetings. With Joe Biden. Over the years he always brings up and talks about it in terms any idea that was being proposed invariably in a powerpoint by the National Economic Council. He would think that he would bring it up. In the context of weather it helped the people in the neighborhood he grew up in Scranton or the neighborhood of claim Delaware near Reiger up that Where he lives after screen so he thinks that way right. It is very hard in his defense to communicate that sitting in a chair in front of a bookshelf. Management is really hard like that. Isn't that is very challenging But that is a separate conversation from whether he should get out ahead of congressional leaders on Policy Ideas Yep and I think what he I think he can get out ahead in coordination right and I do think that it'd be wise and he's done this already. I think so. I think continue this as good is realizing that the changed massively change economic circumstances of the last month. Give Him some permission to adopt new bolder. More populist economic I that's all that's all I'm saying and I think he has that permission now I mean and I think that they are getting there they. They sent out a campaign message memo the other day the Biden campaign where they said there was an unmistakable bias toward giant corporations in the cares act which left out the smallest businesses that power so many American communities Blah Blah Blah trump also fired the inspector general who've been charged with overseeing these funds which is extremely alarming. He's letting hedge funds game the system on the paycheck protection program. So you can see that. They're starting to move there in the campaign. What do you think in terms of the campaign biden sort of most effective economic message and argument as well? I think just as we were talking about. How in Economic Times people look for someone to blame and they either blamed down or they blame up and just as the changed. Economic circumstances have potentially given trump's immigration demagoguery more. Potency I think the change economic circumstances also give democratic populism more potency and so the way I think this works for Biden is because Democrats helped. Pass all of these bills. It is hard to attack the bills themselves because Democrats have their hands all over them and have touted right which you can do is focus on implementation right. Make trump own all. The big corporations were getting loads. The small businesses are being denied. Loads the checks. That didn't get through the glitch e website every bit of implementation falls on trump in. Call them on it doing the context of a narrative that is one hundred percent correct which is trump fights for big corporations and rich people like himself at expense of working people. And so I think that's refocused and I think Biden should be very good at this. Because he was the person that Obama put in charge of Managing Recovery Act so he knows how these things work he saw. How REPUBLICANS WEAPON IS THE INEVITABLE? Mistakes that happened in the management of large government programs. And so he can it and I do think it is. I have begun to question whether Biden has access to time travel. Because just imagine this like thirty years ago. I think Biden Hired Ron. Clean out of law school. I work for and then you flash forward that we are now in a pandemic in a massive economic crisis in the guy. He hired out of law school. There years ago is an expert in pandemics and economic recovery act scores by because Ron Cloudy Lane help manage that for Biden. So it's like did he. Did he note like did he know that? That's real luck. They're glad we have ron around positive. America is brought to you by squarespace. Create a beautiful website to turn your cool idea into a new website with squarespace. Who's got an idea for a website for cool website? Here's what it does right. It takes how you look at Zoom and did Makes it a ten percent worse? So that when we come back. Everyone's like why you look great. Oh that's a good idea. That's a great idea. I'm starting a website. 'cause I'm looking to unload some Hydroxy Quran got a Bum. Steer on an investment Turns OUT IT'S KILLING PEOPLE? Maybe I think it's a good allergy medication. Actually you can just use it to clear. Up Your sniffles. Am Nine. We'll really took some bad advice. I've got five tankers of crude and three warehouses full of hydrochloric win Not sure how to unload either should watching Fox business. Here's how you go to squarespace dot com slash crooked. You get free trout. When you're ready to launch us the offer code cricket to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or domain. Hey guys the futures coming more and more oranmore feels like a threat. Make it brighter with squarespace Pudsey. America is brought to you by simplisafe with all the uncertainty in the world. Feeling safe at home has never been more important. It's why we WANNA talk to you but simplisafe home security. Their longtime friends of pod. Save America and for good reason. Simplisafe has made it easy to finally get comprehensive protection for your home. There's no technician or salesperson that needs to come and disrupt your house. You don't need to pay any outrageous monthly fees or sign a two year contract you disorder online. Set it up yourself and under an hour in your home is protected. Twenty four seven with emergency dispatch break-ins fire and more all forget it you love it. Did it my house is secured. And it's really easy system to use and then you know. Sometimes I'll realize it you know in the before times before Ronin was here all the time as well I would go. I'd be like out a walk with pundit it'd be like you know what I'm going to be gone for a while. Now it'd be a good walk on turning my alarm on from my phone just like that just like that in. Your home is protected. Twenty four seven emergency dispatch for Brigands. Fire more all for just fifty cents a day and we're not the only fans of simplisafe. Us News and World Report named Simplisafe. Best Overall Home Security of twenty twenty right. Now when you had to simplisafe dot com slash crooked. Our listeners will get a free simplisafe security camera that simplisafe dot com slash crooked to make sure they know that our show sent you from simplisafe and all of us here. We're wishing you safety and good health. We have time today to take some of your questions that that you've been asking on various social media platforms so let's let's dig into a few of them before we up for you. Get to your interview with Jason Todd Floor on twitter asks where does Biden sit in terms of cash on hand? Nobody's talking about this nor the huge money advantage. That trump has in the general. Well Todd we've been talking about it maybe not on the pied yet but we've been you have been texting nervously about it. So trump's money advantage is the most massive money advantage that anyone has ever had and we haven't even begun to talk about the Republican Super Backs. The Cook brothers and everyone else who will be engaging in this election. He raised a quarter billion dollars last quarter which is an ungodly amount of money. Biden had a very good fundraising quarter where he raised forty six million but there is a very well reported and quite disturbing New York Times article about Biden's fundraising which shows that that money mostly dropped off a cliff. Once the pandemic hit and people were sheltered at home and people can became very concerned about the crisis so you Biden as candidate who to date to date has been primarily offline freezer through. You know. He's He may raise more of his money than a bunch of the other mechanics through high dollar fundraisers and now. He is locked in his house unable to go to high dollar fundraiser. So it is a cause of immense concern. Yeah so If you're worried about. Donald Trump winning a second term You know if you can consider donating to Joe bought you know and people will say just that Hillary Clinton had way more money than Donald Trump. Two Thousand Sixteen and still lost and that is true job. I am does not need Donald Trump's money when he doesn't need more money he doesn't need as much money but he does need enough right he doesn't need to wipe away. Donald Trump's cash advantage. And he probably never will but he doesn't need enough money to run a great campaign right. Now that's right. Okay Ben Key via the phone. Some pundits are floating the idea of Biden going ahead and announcing key members of his cabinet. Do you think this is a good strategy? And he still won't come on the POD. I don't know someday. It is an available option for him. He can take it if he wants. If we love going to do everything we can do to help them. So that's right. Yeah we don't care either way. What do you think about? What do you think about the Tom Friedman strategy. There we are. We should say the Tom Friedman column which went around to way too. Many people that I know and came back to me was like you know Biden mission announce this big unity cabinet with you know. Republicans and AFC and everyone in between we should all SORTA like come together and hug and sing Kumbaya and all that kind of stuff. But I think there is a separate idea of just announcing whatever cabinet he would announce after he becomes president. I would say that time Friedman column came out when I was doing my book tour back when we travel. Oh Wow that was. That was five years ago. Six years ago two months two months ago and And I got asked about this column at Every Stop. I went to and the first time I got asked was in a bookstore and I- reflexively laughed hysterically. But here's the thing I will tell you. People who go to book events in bookstores really like Tom. Friedman look I'm sure my you know a lot of people I know and love and think very smart. Who Love Tom Friedman? To where just very fucking cynical adult. Just you know pundits that have been around for two off yes I I wanNA hear those words in my braid every night before I go to sleep for a month. Thank you I mean look I think the I think it is a good idea. I think it is worth exploring. Daming some of them you don't have to have to like roll out the SBA administrator now by the but I think it may be a administrator with all the small business gonNA unfair to the SBA. I apologize but I think there's like it. It's always sounds like one of those terrible ideas that people suggest without any context of reality and so I'm hesitant to endorse it myself. But so if he announced someone who we announce the Treasury Secretary designate era designate. That would give people an image of you of what his government looks like. It may help with some constituencies some questions about whether how progressive he was going to a all the time on twitter which is reality people saying did. Joe Biden is GonNa Point Jamie Dimon to be his secretary Which is obviously not going to do and so like you could quell some of that. I think it's an additional circuits to zoom chats. Right now I think the surrogate point is well taken I also think my mind often goes to something. Biden said towards the end of the primary where he told the crowd you know. I see myself as a bridge to the younger generation. Right which is very self-aware thing to say that he knows he's you know can be president at seventy seven years old And that the Democratic Party is becoming younger and more progressive. He understands that and I think he could show that by sort of announcing a cabinet that is That is part of the next generation right that represents the next generation and by the way I think you know. Obama did this to an extent during the economic crisis when he talked to a lot of sort of economic experts. And obviously there's a whole debate about who he chose that we don't have to go into right now but I think is particularly around the economic crisis and this was a point that our pals made on our show hacks on tap David axelrod that like announcing economic team specifically would actually help because it would show sort of exude competent. Send like you have a group of people who can help get the country through the crisis now. I do think if you do that. There's a premium on selecting people who are not just like smart economy people but also you know progressive's and people who are going to send a signal to a lot of constituencies that Joe Biden is going to take sort of helping the middle working middle class and the poor seriously so I think that would be okay idea. This is the hill. I'M GONNA die on Katie Puerto for Treasury Secretary. I love it I love it. Great Messenger. Sumer Advocate Bridge. The next generation just is such a no brainer to me. Doesn't doesn't Take Elizabeth Warren out of the Senate. Which is you know that because Elizabeth Warren for Treasury Secretary also great but neither Senate. Okay some fun stuff. Anthony Orlando on twitter asks. Let's get to the important stuff. What's in your quarantine binge-watching rotation do you WanNa tell us John when you've been washing? Yeah we've been watching too hot to handle. Here's my here's my thing. In general in non pandemic times I tend to not watch Content that will make me more anxious than the news already. Does I do watch some of it but it usually a high bar because I feel anxious all day reading twitter and reading the news so I usually like to watch more mindless stuff or comedy. I hadn't even tougher time with all of that. In the pandemic. I can't focus on really good high quality television so we've been looking for sort of silly our stuff to watch and early came across to handle. I met flakes which is a reality. Do you WanNa give everyone the plot. Yes I'm going to. I'm about to punch of very attractive. People that they put on an island from all over the world who aren't allowed to have sex with each other or even kiss each other or else they lose some prize money and that's it man. That's the plot and you just see what happens and it is It is wild S- then there are some. There are some fascinating people. That's all I'll say about that I am sure that before this quarantine ends and mid twenty twenty three. We will have watched too hot to handle it is. You would always watch the same garbage reality shows that that we have been. We've actually been watching obviously below deck ceiling. Which is excellent. I guess so. We're very very enjoyed. That top chef is on and I would tell anyone who was looking for something really enjoyable to binge is. Go Watch all seasons a top chef. Okay I haven't watched should have is amazing and you do in this environment to get past the fact that is almost like a period piece because a lot of people eating and eating establishments which is not something that we call. It's like watching people have to use a payphone in a movie from the eighties. It's very very disconnecting for life. We have been watching Miss America on. Hello I WANNA watch. The which is great is really great. We watched the first couple upsets. We also watched also on. Hello little fires everywhere to be surprised even though you had told me in advance a cameo from your brother. That's right any favorites thanks. That's right yeah it was but she definitely told me and I definitely forgot and I looked up for my phone and your brother was on my TV. Which has happened before but it was. It was out of context there and then to anyone who loves sports I finally got around to watching the first two episodes dance. I really WANNA watch. Yeah it's really great and I mean it's phenomenal. Like that is like my exact era a basketball because I like one of the first. My first basketball memory is being allowed to stay up to watch the North Carolina. Georgetown Game With my dad and that shopping made the Jordan made. So like that's the beginning of my bass box through everything so it's it. It would be phenomenal robot. Sports was allowed to exist. But one of the questions from Lindsey Zinger was questioned for Dan. How are you coping without the NBA? Because I need tips. I'm guessing last I will. I will last dance fulfills that I think The Earl of the ring have been doing this very fun. Podcast series where they redraft all the previous rafts of Ura basketball draft nerd. That's fun yeah but I will also say that as a sixers fan. This season has been so stressful. That I don't think I could survive the pandemic with the sixers not ever scoring out of the pick and roll like it would be more than I could possibly take and so there. Is this like weird sick relief that I don't have to be mad about? I could never live in a world brandon. What's trumps programs for two hours and then turn on. Sixers road game like that would be more than I can. That's that's rough. Caroline Hicks asks. Can you guys chat about the Mark Warner Tuna Sandwich debacle from Internet? That was I heard a lot of people talking about it and I was like what is it making a big deal out of the guys just making tuna sandwich and then I watched it and I was just I mean for those of you haven't seen it. I don't know why Mark Warner decided he needed to do this. Ensure this with the world but he made it tuna sandwich like he dumps the tuna out on some bread with all the water. And from the can he squirts like ten times too much fucking. Mayo on the Sandwich. He slaps at a piece of cheese on IT and then he throws in the microwave for just thirty seconds. Which I what I what was he doing? I did not know that was Mark Warner the first several times I watched it would also had this like weird like sheen on it like it was from Eighty S. Yeah it was convenient was going on and I have to tell you that I couldn't finish the video. I cannot get past the dumping of the water and this is me like Eddie and people should enjoy like. There's nothing that I find more disgusting than a Tuna Sandwich. I lived in a group House College. Once where One of my housemates to help her and it took like literally six for the smell. Toby of our home. And I'm like if the choice was either to normal. Vote for Paul Ryan. I'd have to flip a coin like that's I don't love to either tuna sandwiches for some reason like a well-made tuna melts. I can do and I enjoy. And which is why we should all be very grateful for Kamala Harris. Who did an instagram live last night? Where she she didn't instagram. Live with Mark Warner where? She taught him the appropriate way to make a tuna melt and because she is a great cook. It was like a deluxe. You know like she chopped up celery Red Eye NEOM and and you know she had her husband do holding the camera the whole time and it very funny and very enjoyable and it was. It was a good piece of content to To consume especially after Mark Warner's troubled troubled attempted a tuna sandwich. I would love it. If Warner Staff. Some some of whom we know from previous political experiences could reach out to US completely off. The record will never mentioned the pie but I want to know the origin. What was the discussion that led to that happening? And I don't begrudge them like. This is the most online attention the mark one who's gotten a long time. I think it is actually the Senate intelligence you know what I am a hundred percent for it. This is like you have to try lots of things. He probably gained twitter followers. Which means more people? There's GonNa be meetings in his office for months where some staffer says. How do we replicate the tuna video to get the more attention? We we need a you like. This'll be yeah. We need a tuna video for stimulus oversight. We need a tuna video for Intel funding. And that wants to be his office. That'll be every set it off. And that's what's GonNa Happen so Trish. He asked US first of all a huge fan. WanNa thank you for providing me with some bits of wisdom and Saturday these crazy times. I unfortunately drink quite a bit of alcohol as a coping mechanism to deal with our current political and covert environment. What do you personally do to cope? Might you recommend some healthier alternatives but Trish we hear you. I would say this Because I think when this first started it's sort of felt like I felt like okay. Yeah you can drink a little more dinner. You can not wear real clothes. Time has no meaning watch. Tv At all hours do whatever I have found that. A couple of weeks into this Maybe a month into this month in a couple of weeks. I don't know what time it is having. Some kind of routine has helped me a little bit more so like I can't go to the gym anymore but now I like wake up. I have a time that I work out. As opposed to just like sitting on twitter for an hour and a half wondering about the fucking state of the world and then I make myself breakfast and then I actually put some real close on. Fm At once work is done. Emily and I take a walk around the neighborhood and we cook dinner and I do the dishes. So it's like I do think giving yourself some sort of routine Can help calm you in these times? at least that's what I found. I don't know have you found anything. No quarantined for six weeks with a very cute very energetic. Two year old and so Survived out the window Yeah I Has also like tweet at some terrible human being tweet like if you exit this shelter in place without a new game and like new skills? Second Language Your side-hustle figure out that's on you and I was like that person does not have children like that. It's a whole different world like it's really. I don't have an answer. It's really hard I find everyone's GonNa do differently. We have reached like you're right. Did in the beginning. There was this sort of the world's going to end philosophy for. It's like drake what you want what you want and now it's like you sort of have to make this fit into your something that resembles daily life. I would say if you don't WanNA watch trump. You have to our press conference. Don't do it. Yeah I'm and this is. This is hard for us because our job is to cover the news and read the news. But I'm finding that the hardest thing is like the news was bad and makes you anxious always before the pandemic and now it's just fucking it's miserable especially because you know like every story always you know the most extreme examples everything. The most pessimistic examples. The most pessimistic predictions of the future are all the headlines. Donald Trump's press conferences can make you insane every day is just bad bad bad. And that's partly because there's a lot of bad news out there but partly because you know bad news always makes headlines and I find that the trickiest part because when I I find myself when I especially late at night or early in the morning when I'm reading the news or scrolling through twitter you just you can go to dark places very fast and so to sort of Have Your News Diet be somewhat. I don't know less than less than usual or at least figure out winter. Read the news and what not to read the news. I think that helps a little bit. Yeah finding nine co vague content in your life is also I mean like your. Your routine should be get up. Shower put on about listen to pots. America other Cook Media Podcasts and then Noncovic content fred which I think is perfect health for sure like but feel free to take a break. I think that's true. With the trump era in general and everything is magnified in the last person that just came from instagram real quick will there be a season three of the wilderness. Fuck I hope. Not that the whole point is to be out of the Wilderness Astor November so as much as I loved making sees the Wilderness. I really did and everyone should if you have to yet please do we. Now have a nominee Obviously the world is much different but I think a lot of the lessons still apply for November. But no I fucking hope. I'm not I'll probably be doing a third season of the Wilderness from somewhere that is wilderness. I will be happy at somewhere if there is the third season of the evil. Where you'll be? If you're doing it you'll be doing it from your house right or anyway. Yes the answer to that. Is I hope. Not all right when we come back. We will have Dan's interview with Jason Goldman. America is brought to you by frame bridge. 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Hi Everyone I'm Alex Wagner journalist and Co host of showtime's the circus and now host of the new crooked media podcast six feet apart each episode of six feet apart will offer a window into the hidden world of this pandemic the chaos and fear the resilience and innovation all of which have been necessary parts of survival in this extraordinary moment new episodes of six feet apart. Drop every Thursday subscribe on Apple podcasts. Spotify stitcher or wherever? You like to listen to podcasts. The critically acclaimed. Hbo Film Dad Education Stars Academy Award nominee. Hugh Jackman. Have you heard him I have? Oh Yeah Wolverine. Oh Yeah super ripped and Academy Award winner. Allison Janney how? They mentioned that you went to Kenyon College. My Alma Mater which often beats John Rose Alma Mater on the US News College ranking. We're hovering in that thirty. Two thirty three the top anyway. So Jackman Johnny play. Long Island school directors supervisors who find themselves at the center of a major scandal. It's based on actual events. The story follows Hugh Jackman. Frank Tassone passionate but greedy superintendent. Whose hard work and loyalty from his assistant. Superintendent Pam Gluck in played by Allison. Janney earns their schools national recognition but when a student reporters puff piece raises some red flags. Intense investigation of the administration begins and frank finds himself going to great lengths to uphold the illusion of success. Thoroughbreds Director Corey Finley depicts. What India wire calls a masterful and a diabolically? Smart Crime Story with biting humor elevated by Jackman Johnny and the supporting cast. That includes Ray Romano in Geraldine Viswanathan. And I bet Jackman doesn't sing in it. Why wouldn't you I hope he does? He's a great singer. He's got pipes anyway. The film premieres Saturday April Twenty Fifth at eight. Pm ON HBO Catch Bad Education Streaming Soon on HBO. Max I'm joined now by the chief digital officer for the Obama White House and a member of the founding team at twitter. Jason Goldman. Sorry Buddy hey good to see you before we get into the nuts and bolts of the campaign. How are you and your family dealing with? Are you enjoying sheltering in place with a small child? Yeah I think we both have that in common which is being trapped inside with a slow moving Tasmanian Devil seeks only to destroy so it keeps you busy instead that much. I have not I I sometimes think. About what the alternative life is Corinthian without a two year old. It's basically that as I heard someone put it I would finish net flicks right. It would just be done. You get that one hundred percent completely like like is is there? Something at the end of Netflix is there is there. Is there some secret yes? There's an Easter Egg. All right I want to start by asking you about the series of articles that have been out there recently about sort of the massive digital advantage that trump has. There's a York Times column or Article From Kevin Roose about binds losing the Internet. What is your assessment of trump's digital advantage and what's your level of concern about heading into the election so I think well let's start with good news because we're not I think in recent times it seems at least according to acronyms reporting that on the adspend side the buying campaign is actually doing better than trump In terms of spending money on online digital as spending money on facebook and that's important Because that was a big gap in two thousand sixteen election where The tools that were made available to the campaigns were just taking more advantage of by trump and so specifically the numbers are in the last three days by outspent trump. Eight point three million to five point. Three million and that's including five point five million versus trump's two point nine million on facebook so it's a significant amount of overspend Which I do take his good news. So that's because because it was ignored previously the concern that you have is less about The dollars then and more how they think about digital strategy and how Democrats in general think about digital strategy and in general. I think it still looks a little bit too much like it did when I joined the White House. In Two Thousand Fifteen Which is that digital. Is this condiment that you sprinkle on top of an already baked communications and political strategy? You figure out what you WANNA say into whom you want to say it and then you turn it over to some young people to make it go viral and and that sort of best illustrated by I was having a conversation in my early days of the White House was someone who worked on national security issues and they said what we really need is an ice bucket challenge to defeat Isis and that to me is kind of where a lot of conversations about digital strategies still our democratic politics when we talk about trump's digital advantage use a term of art is platformer. Van. Tried he has. I think. Seventy FIVE MILLION TWITTER FOLLOWERS. Biden has five. I think right Biden has thirty thousand. Some I think as of last week subscribers is youtube. Channel trump has many X. fat obviously trump has a email list or that is in the tens of millions by has one that we assume it's less than that. How would you advise Biden's campaign to catch up or negate that advantage as much as possible given the time constraints rounder? So the I think the I think the real advantage that has online has less to do with the metrics and more to do with the fact that he is embraced. Something that you and others have talked about which is that. He is the chief communications officer for his campaign and he understands that digital and his twitter feed and his facebook feed and the ad that he runs all over. The place are just different. Factors the same message now. I WANNA see Joe Biden embrace twitter or any digital platform in the same way That Donald Trump has however. There is an idea there. Which is that you can be. You have to have a holistic strategy which the candidate is the center of that strategy and all of these different platforms seek amplify that central message and they're all thought of as different factors of the same strategy as opposed to well we say the one thing the New York Times because that's the thing that really matters and then we'll just clip it out to these other platforms. I think some not necessarily folks in the Biden campaign but some Democrats would look at this and say you know in the primary Bernie Sanders had a massive digital advantage over by along the metrics. We're talking about the strategy. We're talking Elizabeth. Warren people all had huge digital Vancouver Biden. They were head more digitally native campaigns and yet he won pretty overwhelmingly. Does that you look at that as one. Which is he won. Because he was more focused on more traditional means of communications and less focused on re tweets and going viral. Which I think there is some truth to that or he won in spite of that digital disadvantaged. What's your take. I just think that I think the first of all I think the things that might have worked in the primary will be different than work in the general election. You know the the type of things that you need to do to engage a really a really engaged voters during the army may not be the same things that you need to get your message out during a pandemic in which you can't hold rallies or any of the traditional things you'd be doing in the general election across fifty states and so you know that's that's one big part of it. I do think some of the things. That Biden has prioritize. Actually make a lot of sense in a for doing on digital and doing in as the campaign ramps up for example focusing on talking to local papers and talking to local news outlets we know that people trust their local news outlets a lot and that was something that in the digital shop in the White House. We really would push for because you'd get great clips from that conversation. You could do a lot with them online so it doesn't need to be an either or And I think that some of the things that actually they they prioritize so far might end up working out for them. Have you read these stories about this debate? That's taking place in the Biden Campaign Abou- sort of building up their own digital shop for yes Hiring Hawk fish which for our listeners who do not know is a digital startup that came out of the Bloomberg campaign effort to any take on. What the right thing to do there. Is there any sense of how hawk fish works so I mean first of all I think so with regard to hawkers in the Bloomberg campaign I actually think the strategy that they had for Bloomberg Was Pretty good from a digital perspective in Guam route from an electoral worked up until up until the candidate had first contact with public. Got People talking about candidate. Who did wasn't on the ballot races in which they were. They were running these campaigns and it was reminding people of his core value. Which is that. He's going to spend a shit ton on this election and he's willing to put his money behind it and do all these unconventional things. Which is the right kind of electoral argument against trump? It didn't work because he showed up and got completely dismantled by Elizabeth Warren which underlies the key point. Which is you can't have. Some genius may go viral on the ground digital strategy. If it doesn't cohere in any way with who your candidate is and what that candidate is actually going to do out on the debate stage or on the campaign trail or on the STOMP or on TV interviews or anything You're just GonNa have something that got a lot of people talking about it for a couple days and then it's going to be completely undermined so I think that's my concern with the idea of looking at a third party digital consultancy as being the magic bullet one stop shop for digital strategy because the temptation will be the they come up with some really creative interesting stuff but it has absolutely no coherence with WHO. Joe Biden is the values that he's trying to express. The American people are the type of campaign. These going to run so for that reason. I worry about the complete outsourcing of digital strategy and I think instead it needs to be more with within Connected to their core core mission. There was this interesting quote in that story at one of the Hawk fish stories. Where unnamed adviser the Biden Campaign said our current digital team packs a hell of a punch. And we're looking forward to expanding for the general election So I I think that's interesting first of all. I don't know why that could be off the record. Second by the I seems like find quote but second that the core of the quote is that we we punch well and that kind of utilizing language makes sense coming from the Joe Biden Campaign. That like that sort of reflects something that you think about when you think about. Joe Biden and it reveals the fact that the unnamed communications person gave that quote understands that their communication to the press even if unnamed needs coq here to who their candidate is. And you need to see that on the digital side as well And what I worry about if they just completely turn it over. I don't know who that was. I'm not suggesting this person but rob. Flaherty who is their digital director is very very talented. Very strategic got in. So they're like I. I do agree that They have punched above their weight. Even if it doesn't seem that way from sort of the way we think about it you know. We talk about platform advantage in the sense. That trump has more facebook fans or more instagram followers. Which would have hours whatever else but trump also has what I try to describe. Sometimes it's an algorithm advantage is his message of outrage in. Fear is the one that is favored by the way the algorithms work on facebook and Biden cannot would not should not run a campaign that is outrage base. That's not who is. It wouldn't work with his voters. How do you think this is? I mean this is the question that you were tackling in the White House for Obama. Which is how can a candidate? Who's trying to run on decency or hope or good policy ideas? How can they get traction online in a culture that is sort of dominated by trolls and outrage? I think this is a really important point. Because I don't think we should undersell the fact that the current algorithms in the current systems are set up to value outrage and reward outrage. And there's all these really weird feedback loops. They're getting exposed even now during the pandemic that make it really bad as a concrete example. Will Remiss had an interesting post on one zero a medium about what happened with the fire? Foudy what's been going on with some of these protests campaigns where what's happening is people on the side of collective action and let's not open the country that a plan are reacting negatively when they see these images of people saying firefighter or you know including the president and and protesting in front of state capitals and are amplifying those hashtags and so they end up. Trending MORE RENATE ARREST IN. The article described it as as kind of an autoimmune disease. That's happening where there's this perverse amplification of the thing that you don't want to have happen. So even people who are against the thing that's that they're outraged by Are are fueling it and ending up affecting trending topics and there's there's the platform should be thinking about how to fix that in a more in a more concrete way than they have however that being said we know that outrages and the only thing that works online I mean first of all as as you mentioned You Know Brock Obama did not you outrage online. Barack Obama was elected twice and governed under a under a completely different emotional spectrum. A of hope and engagement and highlighting. What was common among the American people? And that's what is digital strategy reflected in a and I I think was successful however it doesn't even it isn't even true just within the realm of politics you see folks like Steph curry or Mental Miranda who understand Jose. Andreas who understand how to use their platform to reach people on an emotional level that is positive and that spurs them in action. All three of those are people who have used their platform to register people to vote or give people donate neal's And I think I think that's the other side of the coin that actually does work. And and Joe Biden is really well positioned for this moment where we're in need of someone showing us that there's A. There's a way for empathy in common understanding the lead us out of the worst prices of our lives. Did you see the video that he taped with Joe Biden and his granddaughter? Just doing which. I assume that you think that's apple kind of thing. They can work for him. Yeah and I think the reason works is because in this moment people are looking for things that feel vulnerable. People are looking for things that feel intimate and they are. That's why you know. People are hanging out on zoom chats and hanging out in instagram wives all night because it gives you this feeling of something. That's that's raw that's intimate that's in your bedroom and you can see and feel not as alone in time. It's very scary. And Donald Trump does not have that year at all it's exclusively as a lane that's exclusively available to Joe Biden. Even if he weren't the type of candidate and type of person that he has And the fact that he is in fact very good at those types of things I think will something that he should lean into the guidance. I would give the campaign as just you have to do more of them. You just have to do more stuff with digital a lot of it. Is You just need more swings at the Bat? You only get one chance to kind of interview with the editorial board of the New York Times like they have a process for that but you can do lots of different things online and some of them are going to be duds and sometimes the computers. Don't work in your trapped in a room with President Obama and he's wondering why. How did this guy is goose? Computers Graft could happen to a theoretical person. But you know you just keep trying keep trying things until find stuff that works for the combination of your messages and who your candidate who your candidate is. The context of the conversation is we've been having is about how politics is conducted on the level. Right how does trump get his message out? How does Biden get his message out? But one of the elements that was so critical in two thousand sixteen was specific efforts at disinformation. Right where the interstate base from Russia whether they are being fueled by domestic troll farms international troll farms. What is your sense of how the Democratic Party and let me? I'll give an example this for folks who have flushed twenty sixteen down the memory hole. You know you look at articles with serious amounts of engagement on facebook. Many of them from two thousand and sixteen contain totally false pieces of propaganda. Hillary Clinton was endorsed by Isis. Fbi agent who worked on the email investigation found dead in an apartment pope endorses trump which people believed which seems crazy. But like that's GonNa come back now. It's going to be more sophisticated. I know facebook and twitter have taken some steps. Both Democrats obviously have to have a plan to deal with this information on your references article media which I think gets at this. But what's your take on where. Democrats are on the battle against this information. What do you think need to be doing? I think I think it's going to be a bigger problem. If not worse I really don't. I don't think that information is going to offer this election cycle and and in some ways we just still don't have the right amount of tools to call it out particularly homegrown domestic. We do it to ourselves. Disinformation I worry. Much more about that than the foreign kind of You know state actor variety because as as the example with Firefox G Hashtag or the deliberate protest show. We're really doing it to ourselves. And one of the reasons we are is because the other side has this tremendous propaganda amplification machine and right wing media. And I I WANNA get back. I'll I want to get back to the digital side of things but I think it's worth emphasizing. How big a part of the overall disinformation problem is really because of right wing. Media Yoga Banglar and another authors. Were this book network propaganda and Came out in two thousand eighteen. I think it's still as relevant now as it was then in which they kind of do this multi factor analysis of all the things that happened in the two thousand sixteen cycle with regards disinformation. What really was what were the the the biggest levers and they find consistently that it's a conservative media and the reason for that is that you know the voters. Europe oil trump are less? Likely you know less likely to be online these stories. existed online. But then got supercharged by right wing media. That's what allowed other electives and other politicians to pick them up and we don't really have any as you know have talked about. We don't really have the antibodies to that to that system yet and we're seeing it. Just play out in a supercharged way during the pandemic. So that's I think a real concern on the digital side I think that some of the platforms have taken more steps than they have previously particularly with political ads. And I think with the pandemic you're seeing things change faster for example just this morning like three hours ago. Gula announced that they're gonNA start doing. You're going to be able to see transparency for who placed any add on Google not just political ads which I think is a move in the right direction and with the types of things that all the platforms have done in very with various levels successor seriousness. To Take Down Diz. Information about the pandemic are so no worthy because they violate the central. Tenet that platforms have tried to Hugh too which is that. We do not have an editorial role in this with the pandemic. We've found something that was so important that the plants that excuse just when fly and they would have to say well okay we. We obviously have to do this because people are going to drink aquarium bleach. And we gotta we gotta try to. We got to try to protect people and so I think we're to see that the slope isn't that slippery and that platforms can actually do more than heretofore. They've been willing to do Jason last question for you. There is obviously a very real possibility that if this is going to be the zoom election where right where just the typical means by which we campaign rallies door knocking community in person. Communication with other human beings is not going to be on the table for for Biden trump. Or anyone involved in this election are you seeing or hearing anything and digital world that are interesting tools or strategies for how we could successfully politicking that environment. I think people are trying stuff. I mean unsurprisingly folks. Afc are good in this environment and are doing stuff on instagram. Like answering questions from folks While doing stuff I mean it's it's it's really the same kind of stuff that she was doing before but it just really works where she's cooking in our kitchen and we're all cooking in our kitchen. She's answering questions. Like I have questioned. I need answered about what's going on. It's perfect for the moment. I don't know what the early results are in terms of. I be interested in seeing some data in some of these telephone town halls. I could see them being very successful. Particularly with a demographic that's maybe online and that's less interested in hanging out and watching an instagram live And so I'd be interested to know what the sort of reaches on those But the one thing that we're seeing is that people are spending a lot of time online. There's you know five hundred thousand people. I'm logging in trying to get in not able to get in to see a baby face battle on instagram. Live right you know. You can't get in. It's so hot you can't get in. There's a you know so I think I think you know the point is not the job in Chicago Boca battle baby face but more that you know that. There is a pent up demand for people to communal experiences that connect with other people to feel a sense of engagement Or you know through while being at home but using the tools that we already have. I don't think we need a special magic tool that doesn't exist. I just think folks need to try more things and do them more often and don't be afraid of the first one doesn't work Jason. Thank so much Thanks for being responsive America. And we'll talk to you soon. Thanks to Jason joining us today. Have a great weekend and we'll talk to you next week. Five one. Five parts of America is a product crooked media the Executive Producer. Michael Martinez our assistant producer Jordan. Waller it's mixed and edited by Andrew. Chadwick Kyle Seguin is our sound engineer. Thanks to tiny so many eater. Katie Long Roman Papa. Dmitri Carolina and Eliza Gutierrez for production support into our digital team. Elijah cone normal coenen Yale freed in my location who film and upload these episodes as videos every week