6 Burst results for "Carol Durant"
"carol durant" Discussed on One Life Radio Podcast
"Welcome back to one life radio everyone is. With although Davis in our special guests, continuing on Burp, she is the author of meeting. Love and fear is not an option Monica is a self, professed change junkie, sharing wisdom and real life awareness to help others adjust to their own lifestyle changes, and to even get excited about them. Her website is really think life dot today. That's rethink life dot today. Monica great having you on the show with us today, and so. Your books here is not an option is incredible and in your book? You talk about three types of fear, healthy, real and illogical. Can you give us an example of each? Sure so healthy is just like it sounds it's set setup for our survival and protection. It keeps US safe and it's a theory. Actually we should respect so for instance if you're hiking and you're too close to the edge of a cliff and high up, and that feeling in your stomach that makes you jump back, right? It's there to protect you, or if your hand too close to an open flame when you pull it back, it's also that feeling of intuition I. Don't know if you've ever had this, but maybe you're going into an elevator and somebody's already there and you start to feel uncomfortable like you shouldn't go in right. It's just to feel. That you have right, so all of that is healthy fear. One of my favorite examples of this is the story of Carol Durant. Are you familiar with her? Moore and I can't. I make here. So It's interesting. 'cause I wrote the book and then a year later, her story starting to get a lot of attention again. I'll explain why so anyway. She was approached by police officer She was in a parking structure at the mall and he came to her. He said your car's been broken into, and we've apprehended the suspect. He has some of your items. Can you come with the station to identify them? So she got that feeling that we just spoke about in the pit of her stomach, and she was reluctant, but she asked for. For his badge and he showed her his bad does. She agreed to go along with them? She gets in his car the driving on the freeway and she realizes that they're driving the opposite direction from the station, so she starts to get nervous. She tells him you're going the wrong way. He has one hand on the wheel with his other hand. He's trying to handcuff her and then with her free hand. She's opening the door already because she had. She had her hand already ready to go, so she jumped out of the moving car. He's on my car a site. A fight ensues on the side of the road and she's able to escape a few days later. She looks in the newspaper and she sees it on that same day a few hours later, somebody was Kidnapped and was murdered by serial killer Ted Bundy and looks at a stage, and she realizes that was the police officer. When the Ted Bundy files came out. Everybody was talking about her again because she was the one that got away. So this fear is a healthy one, and we should respect it. And I know really powerful right? The next one is real fear, and that's based in reality. It's fear of death of pain of change, even and even with this fear, though it can be used as a motivator for change and for connection meaning. If somebody is afraid that they of dying or getting sick, they can make healthier lifestyle choices right? Maybe not smoking, not drinking lot exercising eating well. There's proactive things that we can do to control this kind of the're also I hear a lot of people talking about fear of their parents dying, and they ruminate about that thought over and over again. So much so that even when they spend time together, they're not really enjoying it because they're just thinking about this negative thoughts, so what I say to those people use this time to really make sure you tell them how much you love them. Make for the time that you're together is positive, and you're enjoying it right so with this kind of theory can be a great reminder for us to make good choices that will appreciate later in life now. The last one is illogical, and this is the one that we spend most of our. Our time busy with believe it or not. It's fear of spiders, snakes, elevators, public, speaking failure and it's what keeps US worried, frantic and insecure consistently right? It's the thing that's Donald Living Dreams. This is the fear that I talk about most is the one that we can completely eradicate. We do not need to speed. The spirit unites to give it any energy whatsoever, and when you choose something else right, and that's why name the book years on an option, because the fear is no longer an option. You need to find another option. Wow I love what you're saying. I had I actually had a conversation with my niece last night about because I'm afraid of snakes, too, and so she wanted slivered by her on her property. COPPERHEAD and I was like. Yeah, but you can't let those fears like each you up I know it's difficult. You know anyway, so it was kind of saying some of the things that you were saying. Saying but I of course I'm not as eloquent or is knowledgeable and about about this particular topic. Is You and I love it? We're talking about this. This conversation needs to happen for so many things that we deal with in our life and we've only got about. I'M GONNA say forty five seconds last before I hear the music. So how do we begin to identified our own fierce on? So what I exercise I give people write down three of your major fears. The ones that bother you that keep you up at night right, but keep you paralyzed and then go next to each fear and write down if you think it's real healthy illogical, most of the people don't get it right the first time, but really try to be honest with yourself, and then you'll have an easier way of coping it when fear comes up. Thought right if not your carry it along with you and gain more and more thoughts. That's the first thing and the second is when rises. Ask Your Gum what you would do if you weren't afraid and then do that now. I loved really truly enjoyed having you on the show today. I hope you'll come back everyone. You've gotTA. This book I'm not kidding you sending one of my needs to do this. I get off the ship. As ing anytime than happy to come back being he'll ask I love it. Beer is not an option. You guys Monica or check it out. I'm not what might now on Amazon. Thank you again so much Monica everyone out there. You're welcome and thank you so much for listening everyone. Remember you get once you get one mind at you. Get Wildlife. Get Out! There is not an option..
"carol durant" Discussed on Nightline
"Handcuffs. I'm a law student use them in my classes. Now, what is the person doing out in the middle of the night in a residential neighborhood with all those items and he's driving of? Okay. So I can buck. I took him in and booked him. There's something wrong with his guy. That putting on the radar of Utah enforcement and add this unsolved abduction of. I got a call and it was dead. He says I've been arrested. What were you arrested for all? They think I'm the Ted murderer. And he laughed and I laughed. I didn't think he was guilty. When he came to the police lineup. We made all sorts of attempts to make himself facially difficult to identify part of his hair on the other side. So he did have a chameleon like quality. Carol Durant came to the police station was shown a lineup and was able to identify Bundy as the person who attacked. He was arrested and charged with the kidnapping of Carol. He was a likable guy. And if he could be a killer, well who else might be so people just didn't want to believe it. I helped raise money to Bailey manage everybody in the ward fell he was innocent. I was assigned. Ted bundy's case by the office fence, Ted immediately said something is silly little case in Utah. Kind of more saying it's not a slew little case too. During court proceedings in Utah Bundy, actually comes outside and talks to the media. Do you feel about the Justice system in your head? Well, I'm sure it works. You've got to have faith little work or else, you do you be reduced to some kind of in mumbling idiot. I believe it works. I believe it needs to be improved. When you mentioned improvements does that mean, ultimately, you want to get involved in the criminal Justice? Yes. I intend to complete my legal education and become a lawyer and be a damn good lawyer. Whether you testify or not is one of the only things that defendant has the sole decision making power over and Ted. Of course ignored vice testified in. Was the worst witness of the world? He was an arrogant. Basically. And that's the way he came across on the stand. At the trial Dhiraj picked out Bundy as her doctor. I pointed out and said he was he was the one he was the man that tried to kidnap me. Thought he did lie about everything and get away with it pretty hard to explain why you drive around with an ice pick and a pantyhose mask most of us. Don't have that in our cars. Ted Bundy was convicted of kidnapping Carol Dhiraj. Verdict guilty. He was going to be headed to Utah state prison. Police officers from Utah, Washington state and Colorado get together share notes and determine that they're all talking about the same guy. Everybody knew it was there, man. It was just a case of proven. But. He's planning the scape. Anybody else that does things the question is? Here does I mean years after this? We're still talking about the person they invented the terms through killer for. He referred to the women in his folks again as cargo as advocates. You don't think killer of women is going to be a good looking articulate lost in the ladies loved. He was entertaining. It was funny. There were clues. Now, the guy named Ted w a composite sketch that was an intruder and the column latest Rory house. He had with him some sort of club. Sleep in my room, and yet evil opened the door and attack me, I was dealing with a beast Damon. Ted
"carol durant" Discussed on 20/20
"I'm a law student use them in my classes. Now, what is the person doing out in the middle of the night in a residential neighborhood with all of those items and he's driving of? Okay. So I can buck. I took him in and booked him. I there something wrong with his guy. That putting on the radar of Utah law enforcement, and they had this unsolved abduction of Iran. I got a call and it was dead. He says I've been arrested. What were you arrested for all? They think I'm the Ted murderer. And he laughed. I laughed. I didn't think he was guilty. When he came to the police lineup. We made all sorts of attempts to make himself facially difficult to identify part of his hair on the other side. So he did have a chameleon like quality. Carol Durant came to the police station was shown a lineup and was able to identify Bundy as the person who attacked. He was arrested and charged with the kidnapping apparel. Watch a likable guy. And if he could be a killer who else might be so people just didn't want to believe it. I helped raise money to Bailey matted jail. Everybody in the ward fell. He was innocent. I was assigned. Ted bundy's case by the office opposes fence ten. Immediately said something is silly little case in Utah. Kind of I'm rooting it's not a slew little case. During court proceedings in Utah Bundy, actually comes outside and talks to the media. Do you feel about the Justice system in your head? Well, I'm sure it works. You've got to have faith little work or else, you do you be reduced to some kind of in a mumbling idiot. I believe it works. I believe it needs to be improved. When you mentioned improvements does that mean, ultimately, you want to get involved in the criminal Justice? Yes. I intend to complete my legal education and become a lawyer and be a damn good lawyer. Whether you testify or not is one of the only things that defendant has the sole decision making power over and Ted. Of course ignored vice testified in. Was the worst witness of the world? He was an arrogant. Basically. And that's the way he came across on the stand. At the trial Dhiraj picked out Bundy as her objector. I pointed out him said he was he was the one. He was the man that tried to kidnap me. Thought he did lie about everything get away with it. It's pretty hard to explain why you drive around with an ice pick and a pantyhose mask most of us. Don't have that in our cars. Ted Bundy was convicted of kidnapping Carol Dirac. Verdict is guilty. He was going to be headed to Utah state prison. Police officers from Utah, Washington state and Colorado get together share notes and determine that they're all talking about the same guy..
"carol durant" Discussed on Kickass News
"And that ultimately led to his conviction. For attempted kidnapping of Carol Durant. He was apprehended in Colorado after his first prison break six days after his prison break, he was apprehended and he was apprehended in Pensacola, Florida, which ultimately led to his his final murder trial in Miami for the cuyahoga killings. But in each instance, he was not arrested because the police were on his trail, and they caught the right guy. Each of these arrests were because he was driving stolen vehicles you radically and an alert police officer noticed either a stolen vehicle or the erotic driving. And that's the reason he had been pulled over in each of those three instances, and then only later did they realise who they had in in custody. So I've always kind of thought it's amazing that had Bundy been a better driver. He might never have been caught. Wow. In the aftermath of Ted bundy's killings, you mentioned that the F B started, profiling serial killers. And there's this kind of silence of the lambs mind hunter aspect to all of this where at a certain point Bundy began actually helping the FBI with cases in volunteering is theories and information about different active cases, or what kind of things was he telling them and was it useful? I think a lot of what he's he offered. The FBI was useful. And again, it was you know, sent his cynical attempt to keep himself alive by bargaining information. But you know, he had, you know, a unique insight, and I think for Bill hag Meyer, the FBI agent who interviewed him, and who was part of that profiling program, I think he was incredibly useful to them. So some good came out of the Bundy saga. But at obviously way too high a price. I wanna go back to his execution because as you mentioned the media circus even carried through all the way to his death. Seth you show. Thousands of people gleefully showing up at the prison selling souvenir t-shirts shooting off fireworks in this macabre carnival around his execution in a strange way. Do you suppose that the ultimate sociopaths final? Masterpiece was that he made the media and by extension America as a whole just a little bit more callous in less than pathetic. I think that's an outstanding point. And one of the things that troubles me, including myself. You know, I'm I-. I impartially self reflexively looking at how we've become this nation of what I call rubber neckers where you know, we do want to see what's happened to other people. We do look at crime as entertainment, unfortunately. And while I like to think that much of my true crime stuff. In fact, I hate that moniker. You know, if you look me up in the Wikipedia page it says, I'm a true crime pioneer. But true crime for me is you know. Is a mixed bag because sometimes, you know, it's just wallowing in the misery of other people. And I hate to think that that's what I do. You know, there's a certain aspect to my work that I believe, you know, as I've advocated for the wrongfully convicted I've helped wrongfully convicted people get out of prison with my work with the arise law series. You know? So there's a social Justice component to my true crime filmmaking and yet I'm part of genre. That takes other people's tragedies. The worst tragedy you can imagine the loss of a loved one, and we make entertainment out of it. And you know, I'm highly aware and conscious of that. And I do think all of that the the circus like atmosphere, the t shirts that were being sold. You know, burn Bundy burn, you know, people driving by with banners, you know, FSU students wanting revenge who you know, were not old enough. We're probably ten years old when the crime. Uh-huh. Actually happened. You know, I do think it's it was kind of a low point. And a floodgate of where we are today where there is an insatiable appetite for this type of programming. And I think often the victim is forgotten. You know, we have to remember that there are dozens of family members dozens and dozens and dozens of family members who are the the victims as well of bundy's crimes, and I do think, you know, and I'm applying the criticism to myself. So I'm not immune from it. But at least I I wanted to pull back and analyze I think sometimes our our desire to examine these crimes is often at the expense of the victim..
"carol durant" Discussed on WNYC 93.9 FM
"Welcome back to all of it on WNYC. The term serial killer was coined in the nineteen seventies. A source of oh theft, the nation and repulsion the subject has been covered in many films. But have you ever seen a film where the serial killer, essentially, narrates his own story the net flicks docu series conversations with a killer at the Ted Bundy tapes tells the tale of bundy's life, featuring selections for more than over one hundred hours of tape conversations with a killer. He doesn't his own voice never heard before by a public audience. It's really next level in terms of true crime, TV the tapes, providing unsettling backdrop to the life and crimes of Bundy, an aspiring lawyer, he used his charm and good looks to lure more than thirty women to their deaths in the nineteen seventies conversations with a killer. The Ted Bundy tapes premiers on Netflix tomorrow, January twenty four th and its director and executive producer. Joe Berlinger is here with us now. Nice to see you. So why have we never heard these tapes before? Well, I would say ninety percent of the tapes. We haven't heard before a little bit. Has been released here and there, but Stephen Michaud, the author Hugh Ainsworth, they wrote a book conversations with a killer based on these tapes, and they just kind of sat on it and Michaud reached out to me couple of years ago. And you know, he's who was a fan of my true crime documentaries and asked if I was interested in in it, and I mean, honestly, initially, I was not sure I was because there's awful lot abundant material out there. But when I heard these tapes, they were absolutely chilling. And I thought it provided a unique way to tell the Bundy story to the comprehensive story of Bundy through his own words, you kind of entered the mind of the killer and. I don't wanna say you understand why he does what he does. But you get a sense of who he is. And I think that's the that's the the troubling enduring lesson of Bundy, and why we are always so fascinated by him because he defied all the stereotypes of what a serial killer is, you know, we want to think that a serial killer is is some weird social outcasts. Buffalo treat or exactly as as Bundy himself said in these tapes, you know, you know, killers don't come out of the shadows. With long fangs with blood dripping off their chin. They are your brother your father, people you loved and lived with. And that's what makes it so damn frightening. And and when you listen to these tapes, you see his charm, you see his thinking you see his intelligence. I mean, he's he's talking about horrible things. But that's I think why we're so fascinated in these because we want to think that you're safe because oh, there's the serial killer. I can see him over there. So I can avoid him. But they're these people are not avoidable. And you know, like, the priest who commits pedophilia or you know, any any kind of people who do evil things. But then, you know, put on a good face serial killers are no different. Why did Bundy wanna talk to these two reporters? Specifically, what was it about them? Well, interestingly. Bundy thought. As you see in the tapes, he actually talks about these things in the third person that is the wildest thing because he didn't want to implicate himself because he was still in Bundy uniquely once serial killers are caught they generally love to talk about their crimes and spill the beans, but Bundy, one of the terrifying things about Bundy is that he denied his crimes. To his friends and loved ones during the trials throughout the entire appeals process. And it wasn't until a few days before his execution that he started doling out information in in a, you know. No. Attempt an ill-fated attempt to try to extend his life by giving information. So that these cases, you know, these these cold cases could be closed but Bundy. You know? He was looking to tell the story, basically, you know, and he wanted the case reinvestigated. And so it was kind of this odd reason for for doing the book because he was continuing to pretend to these authors that he was innocent. And he wanted a reinvestigation of the case. And so Steven and Hugh didn't believe necessarily the Bundy was innocent when they started the project, but they thought if he's telling the truth, that's one heck of a story if this guy that everyone thinks is this horrendous serial killer is actually innocent. And if he's lying that's interesting too because we have access to him. So why they chose him? They don't even know, but they did. And so they started this project and after a couple of months. Seve Michelle did most of the interviews and Hugh Ainsworth went out to the Pacific northwest to do the reinvestigation. And of course, the reinvestigation just confirmed his guilt, but Stephen was growing frustrated with bundy's kind of vanity talk and beating around the Bush and not really getting to the courthouse. I bet his childhood how he's he was great catching frogs, and he sort of just decided he wants to he wants to control the narrative, and he's trying to manipulate the interviews -actly. And then and then Bundy sorry, Michelle Stephen Michaud has this epiphany because a serial killer, ultimately is an extremely narcissistic person who loves to regale about their crimes, that's how they derive satisfaction. And so he asked. He suggested that that Bundy be an expert witness to talk about these crimes and to provide insight, you know, so that Stephen could write about the crimes, but use use Bundy as kind of an expert knowing full well that he was actually the killer, and that his eyes lit up bundy's is lit up. He cradled the tape recorder and off you went, and he just couldn't resist himself talking about every detail of the crimes giving information that only the killer would know but talking in the third person, which is fascinating. Because of course, he didn't want to implicate himself because he was still going through the process. My guess is Joe Berlinger he is the director and executive producer of the net. Flicks docu series conversations with a killer. The Ted Bundy tapes, I'm curious when you heard all these tapes, I I don't know what it's hindsight. If it's with the audio version sentences about listening with hindsight. He sounds creepy to me when you. When you listen to him, you listen to talk, you think all that is creepy guy. But I'm wondering what you thought like every normal. He is he doesn't really sound normal to me. But I have all this information about him. So what is talking about is absolutely chilling, but the but the manner in which he does it. I mean, obviously, it's creepy, but you can understand how you know, his Miami trial. He represented himself. Look the court allowed him to represent himself, which was crazy. It was the first nationally televised murder trial. So there was a ton of media coverage, and he just kind of lit up, and you see in these tapes, the, you know, the sad waste of life. Because he's intelligent. You see how he charmed people? I mean, there's little moments in the tapes, where he you know, he's jokingly. You know, Stephen Michaud Asif minds if he smokes a cigarette and there's a joke about cancer. And then he he without skipping. A beat continues his narrative about, you know, hunting hunting women and what he's looking for. I just found them. You know, the thing about Bundy was he was incredibly believable. You know, one of the most fascinating is one of the one of the most fascinating things for me about the whole Bundy saga is his initial Pacific northwest killings because he killed in the Pacific northwest, Utah Colorado, but his initial killings were in and around Seattle and his initial killings were at night waiting for a lone female walking on the college campus completely isolated because that's that's easy. He then emboldened himself in Seattle and went to a place called lake sammamish state park, and in the course of one day, he he abducted and killed two women and the ruse was he were. A cast and he walked around to a lot of women and say, hey, you know, you're taking advantage of their of of the female nurturing instinct of allowed to say that people take up the right way. And he was taking advantage of that instinct by asking women to help him load, a boat onto a Volkswagen, and he talked to enough people at that park has he ended up getting to victims. But several other women just said, they weren't interested. But enough witnesses to these conversations enabled the police to be able to put together a composite sketch. They heard the name Ted, and they heard Volkswagen. So there was an article in the Seattle newspaper with this composite sketch a few days after the abductions saying, hey, there's a guy named Ted. He looks like this. He drives a VW and all of Ted's friends recognized him or the the sketch was enough of a resemblance that they teased him about the resemblance and say God, isn't that funny guy named Ted? You have a VW he has a VW. Kind of looks like you. But nobody would even think, oh, gee, maybe you're responsible, and that's because of this believability that he had which which I think comes through in those tapes. He's he's he's sincere and believable and that that is utterly chilling. In fact, my I'm also doing a scripted movie that premiered at Sundance called extremely wicked. That is the Bundy story as well as ACA FRANZ planning to Ted Bundy, he looks so much like, it's really creepy. How much test? Looks like Ted Bundy it is. And and it's coincidental that these two projects came together at the same time. It's like the weird universe. Tapped me on the shoulders. And for some reason, you're the guy that's all stories in two thousand nineteen but that movie focuses exclusively on that relationship. And and you see the whole Bundy saga through the perspective of the girlfriend who thought for six years she was living. Can you imagine living with a guy who at night is is stealing away and killing women, but he's such a wonderful boyfriend and wonderful surrogate father to your young child from another relationship that you just even though there were a few clues along the way she just couldn't imagine that this guy was anything other than her wonderful boyfriend. And I think you see that in these tapes that you understand his intelligence his planning his conning and his utter evil nece, no remorse. I mean, that's the thing up until you know, he gave. Shortly before his execution. He gave a final interview on television with his Reverend Dobson declaring that pornography made him do it. And you know, he was tearful. But to me that was to most experts that was just, you know, crocodile tears, and he was trying to extend his life by becoming useful to the religious. Right. Who were you know, trying to fight this growing phenomenon pornography? Something I also thought was quite interesting in the film, and you get a sense of that Ted Bundy would have been caught so much so much more quickly today absolutely idea, the the silo wing of police forces in Seattle, and Colorado and Florida that he was able to exist as a whole the person holder state and no-one communicate about this serial killer who seemed to match the profile across different states. Yeah. No. That's a great point. It's fascinating. I mean, actually the three times Bundy was apprehended once in Utah once in Colorado. After his first escape and finally in Florida, which led to his Florida trials each time. He was apprehended. It wasn't because of amazing detective work. It's because he was driving stolen vehicles erratically and the police pulled him over in each of those instances, not even knowing who they had in the car. They just saw car being driven erratically. So I've always felt like if he was a better driver. He might never have been caught. But that's not to say that these were bad police detectives, I mean, I think in each case in Seattle in Colorado and in Florida there was dedicated people doing their best. But it was a very different time in history. You know, forensic evidence wasn't what it is today. DNA evidence didn't exist. There was no central database. Police departments didn't communicate with each other routinely. I mean sobbing crimes was you know, weren't even fax machines was like rotary phones and hitting the streets. And and Bundy was always one step ahead of them. And in fact, there's a. Common misconception with Bundy that profiling is what FBI profiling is what caught Bundy, but it's just the opposite the other when when when Bundy escaped from Colorado and went to Florida he became an interstate fugitive. The FBI gets finally gets involved, but the basically the utter failure of the FBI and law enforcement to bring him to Justice much earlier is actually what caused the FBI to realize they needed to create a profiling unit. And so Bundy was interviewed after his incarceration by an FBI agent named Bill hag Meyer, who you see a fictionalized version of that in mind hunter on the Netflix series is profiling was created, but it's out of the utter failure of the F B I to bring Bundy to Justice that actually caused profiling as we know it today to to have been created Joe Berlinger the name of the film is conversations with a killer. The Ted Bundy tapes the docu series, which starts on Netflix tomorrow. There is a woman featured in this docu series who I understand had to be convinced to speak out is this Carol. Carol Durant is one of she's she's Ted Bundy, she's one of the few people to have escaped Monday fascinating. And very important. You know, Carol Durant was a eighteen year old going to shopping mall in in Utah outside of Salt Lake in the suburb and Bundy changing his MO. That's the other interesting thing about Bundy, he constantly changed his way of sometimes he feigned having a broken, arm and needing assistance. Sometimes he feigned being a police officer, which he did in this particular case, she was shopping at a mall Bundy approaches her. She was the classic Bundy victim long, Dr in a long dark hair parted in the middle attractive college age that was his his his typical victim Bundy approaches. Her says, hey, do you own this in this car? She said, yes. Because obviously Bundy watched your park the car. Well, we have a report we have an incident where somebody we think broke into your car, and we need to determine if anything's missing they go to the car. She's feeling a little odd about it. But she has no reason to question authority. And she says or he said, do you mind coming down to the station with me, you know, we need to get a description and need additional information and she was compliant, and they go over to his car, and it's VW bug which she thought was so at that point. She says can I have some identification. He flashes a badge. She had no reason to question it again again, very different era. So he gets into the car with her, and he's she's smells alcohol on his breath and starts to put things together. And he is going in the opposite direction of the police station..
"carol durant" Discussed on WNYC 93.9 FM
"You know, forensic evidence wasn't what it is today. DNA evidence exists there was no central database. Police departments didn't communicate with each other routinely. I mean solving crimes was you know, weren't even fax machines. It was like rotary phones, and and and hitting the streets. And and Bundy was always one step, you know, kind of a head of him. And in fact, there's a common misconception with Bundy that profiling is what FBI profiling is what caught Bundy. But it's just the opposite the utter when when when Bundy escaped from Colorado and went to Florida he became an interstate fugitive. The FBI gets finally gets involved, but the basically the utter failure of the FBI and law enforcement to bring him to Justice much earlier is actually what caused the FBI to realize they needed to create a profiling unit. And so Bundy was interviewed after his incarceration by an FBI agent named Bill hag Meyer, who you see a fictionalized version of that in mind hunter on the Netflix series is profiling was created, but it's out of the utter failure of the FBI to bring Bundy to Justice that actually caused profiling as we know it today to to have been created Joe Berlinger the name of the film is conversations with a killer. Ted Bundy tapes the docu series, which starts on net tomorrow. There is a woman featured in this docu series who I understand had to be convinced to speak out this Carol. Carol Doron is one. She's she's Ted Bundy she's one of the few people to have escaped Monday fascinating. And very important. You know, Carol Durant was a eighteen year old going to a shopping mall in in Utah outside of Salt Lake in a suburb and Bundy changing his MO. That's the other interesting thing about Bundy, he constantly changed his way of sometimes he feigned having a broken, arm and needing assistance. Sometimes he feigned being a police officer, which he did in this particular case, she was shopping at a mall Bundy approaches her because she was the classic Bundy victim long long dark hair parted in the middle attractive college age that was his his his typical victim a Bundy approaches. Her says, hey, do you own this in this car? She said, yes. Because obviously Bundy watch your park the car. Well, we have a report we have an incident where somebody. We think broke into your car and we need to determine if anything's missing go to the car. She's feeling a little odd about it. But she has no reason to question authority and. She says or he said you mind coming down to the station with me. You know, we we need to get a description and need additional information and she was compliant, and they go over to his car, and it's VW bug which she thought was odd. So at that point, she says, can I have some identification. He flashes a badge. She had no reason to question it again again, very different era. So he gets into the car with her, and he's she's smells alcohol on his breath and starts to put things together. And he is going in the opposite direction of the police station. And so she she insists on getting out and as he's trying to cover her. He accidentally cuffs both has of the cuff on one arm, and that gives her the chance to kind of run out of the car and he runs after her and they're struggling and she's gripping the crowbar that he's attempting to smash over her head. I'm just chilling in the fact that she survived is pretty amazing and her I witness identification of him is how bundy's legal saga finally begins. And ultimately, you know, is this is the first of many steps that actually allows them to bring bring him to Justice. He's identified in a lineup. He's convicted in Utah, attempted abduction. Meanwhile in Colorado, he's done several murders. And he's extradited. To Colorado for suspicion of of these murders. And that's when he escapes from prison, not once but twice who who escaped from prison twice, you know, or even once, and and that's the other part of the saga that I find so chilling that I think the tapes really show is that you know, he's now escaped from prison twice. He's killed eighteen women in four states at this point. He's on the Lam and even a rational, even if you're a criminal. You would think that anybody who has escaped twice would have the presence of mind to understand. Okay. I for scape from prison twice. He heads to Florida where you think you would lay low, but his most vicious killings happened there in one night, he goes on a rampage and kills two and almost kills another to Florida sorority girls at the Cayo mega house at the Florida State University in Tallahassee then runs down the road to another college residents, and and bludgeons yet another woman. And a few weeks later. His last victim is unfortunately, a twelve year old girl in Lake City, Florida named Kimberly Leach and. Again, this compulsion to kill as opposed to laying low this overpowering need to to destroy just to me is utterly inexplicable yet utterly fascinating. And I think you see all that in the tapes just this despite any rational, ideas of self preservation, his need to kill this entity that he talks about that this voice just overpowers him and and the need to kill. And I think that's alternately unexplainable. You know, a lot of the tapes, you know, he kinda dismisses some of these theories that well when he was a child and discovered he was illegitimate that set him off. That's a common explanation for his. You know, what what set him off his first girlfriend in college who had long hair parted in the middle broke up with him. And that was very painful, but we all go through hardships. Like that in life. You know, and that doesn't turn us into homicidal maniacs. And so I think at the end of the day, what the tapes reveal is that he's an. Enigma and evil exists. And it's really sadly, just not explainable conversations with a killer. The Ted Bundy tapes premiers on Netflix Thursday, January twenty four it is quite Benjamin. Joe thank you so much for joining us. Appreciate it. We come back to time top chef runner-up, Shirley Chung and a conversation about her new cookbook. That's all of it. Support for WNYC comes from true west on Broadway, starring Ethan Hawke and Paul deneau opposites attack in Sam Shepard's drama about two.