27 Burst results for "Carl Sagan"
National Pretend To Be a Time Traveler Day with Jack Conway
"Hey paul this is jack. I'd love to know more about pretend to be a time traveler day. I did some research. And it doesn't seem that all scientists think time travel's impossible but i don't think we've quite figured out yet so until then we'll just need to pretend which actually sounds like a lot of fun anyway. I'd love to know more about this day. Thanks there's been a lot of national days of my friends have challenged me with throughout this year. And although i won't commit to this. But jack's choice may top them all today. December eighth is national. Pretend to be a time traveler. Day any guesses what you're supposed to do today. Apparently we are supposed to wear some very close from yesteryear or act confused by certain technology. Okay maybe for some of you. That's not too difficult. Say with me. Rss stands for release simple syndication for my first recommendation. I've gone back in time to the year. Twenty twelve and found this live. Talk from comecon by the stuff you should know. People they discuss time travel. Works and reference people like carl sagan. They also get a visit from a time traveler and talk about the musical paradox from back to the future after listening to gout and strap on your steam punk or victorian close and share using the pretend to be a time traveler day hashtag. Today's guests is jack conway. Jack is the editor of podcast review. Which delivers podcast. Critique and recommendations each week sure some people may see us as competitors and he's never reviewed my ward winning podcast. But i won't hold that against him. Because i'm a fan podcast myself. I love getting and reading the podcast review newsletter for a third recommendation. Today jack travels back to last year for decoder ring. Episode jack says and i quote my episode. Recommendation is gotta get down on friday from dakota ring. It's about the two thousand eleven viral hit friday by rebecca black one of those songs that so bad. It's good in the episode. Willa paskhin the host of dakota ring which is one of the few podcasts. I never miss an episode
"carl sagan" Discussed on Progressive Talk 1350 AM
"May seem, it may simply be the expected outcome of those organizing principles of life. There are two options before us then either we humans are unique in our universe an utterly alone. Or we're not. And if there is other life elsewhere, then that means that the great filter the hardest step Lies not in our past, but in our future. It means that the challenge that lies ahead of us is more difficult, more improbable to overcome than dead molecules organizing themselves into living cells or apes, learning to build ships to the moon. And rather than having millions of years to try and fail before succeeding, We will have one shot to get it right. If the great filter lies in our future than it appears that we're entering it right now. Now, here in the 21st century, 4.3 billion years after life emerged on Earth, we are entering the evolutionary step that no life in the universe has ever managed to survive. Carl Sagan had thiss great phrase about humanity is growing powerful before it's grown wise on doubt, Power through technology has been increasing exponentially. Wisdom has bean. Maybe it's been increasing a little bit, but I'm suddenly not exponentially, and it's getting these three things have got out of check with each other. We couldn't unsustainable level of risk. The technology that got us to this point is taking a new shape, one that we haven't encountered before. And it is presenting new risks to the survival of our species. And, indeed, life on Earth. You. Right now. Are living in what may be the beginning of the most dangerous period in the history.
"carl sagan" Discussed on Progressive Talk 1350 AM
"We developed language, which allowed us to better coordinate ourselves and hunt together and interact with one another more effectively. We learned to make clothes to keep us warm as we spread out beyond the subtropical climate. We evolved in. We learned to make boats to carry us to new places. We learned to make ceramics to store food. We learned to grow crops, which led the cities in the foundation of the modern era. There was another quirk of that chance collision between the planetoid they unearth, which produced the moon. It also produced massive deposits of minerals and metals near the surface that humans could easily get to it. Over time. We abandon those stone tools in favor of more reliable metal ones. And eventually we put all of those millions of years of accumulated intelligence and technology into ships that broke the bonds of Earth. And launch the first of our species in the space within the astronomically short period of about 100,000 years. Humans left the wild and went to space. But perhaps as unlikely as the emergence of human intelligence may seem, it may simply be the expected outcome of those organizing principles of life. There are two options before us then either we humans are unique in our universe an utterly alone. Or we're not. And if there is other life elsewhere, then that means that the great filter the hardest step Lies not in our past, but in our future. It means that the challenge that lies ahead of us is more difficult, more improbable to overcome than dead molecules organizing themselves into living cells for apes, learning to build ships to the moon. And rather than having millions of years to try and fail before succeeding, We will have one shot to get it right. If the great filter lies in our future than it appears that we are entering it right now. Now, here in the 21st century, 4.3 billion years after life emerged on Earth, we are entering the evolutionary step that no life in the universe has ever managed to survive. Carl Sagan had thiss great phrase about humanity is growing powerful before it's unwise on doubt, Power through technology has been increasing exponentially. Now. Wisdom has bean Maybe it's been increasing a little bit, but suddenly not exponentially, and it's getting these three things have got out of check with each other but couldn't unsustainable level of risk. The technology that got us to this point is taking a new shape, one that we haven't encountered before, and it is presenting new risks to the survival of our species. And, indeed, life on Earth. You. Right now. Are living in what may be the beginning of the most dangerous period in the history.
"carl sagan" Discussed on Progressive Talk 1350 AM
"Science writer Carl Sagan was one of those people he was an optimist when it came to the family paradox he believed that life was out there we just hadn't found it yet Cygan pointed to evidence from the fossil record that here on earth life began as early as five hundred million years after the years for it's almost like it was waiting to emerge and since it emerged quickly here on earth it stands to reason that life should emerge were ever gets the chance anywhere in our universe when you take into account the idea that there are perhaps three hundred billion stars in the Milky Way alone even if some small fraction of those have habitable planets that could host life then we should expect to encounter it sometime soon as we spread out to explore the countryside around planet earth but there's a problem with basing our view of the rest of the universe on our own existence the idea that we can gain insight into our universe from our existence is called the anthropic principle and it's vulnerable to a logical fallacy called selection bias being the only intelligent life in the universe we're the only data point in our dataset and so we tend to skew the results a little bit it's hard to resist the temptation of cherry picking the data when there's only one chair yes of course life can arise our very existence proves that fact but what it does not prove is that the emergence of intelligent life or any life really is easy or inevitable what is instead life emerging in our universe is really really really hard perhaps.
Robust Fit to Nature
"I enjoy bringing neurologists on the show from time to time as I'm going to do today. In invariably I work in some sort of question about how different the brain is from the machine approach to intelligence. How apples to oranges? These things are in many ways that's fair, and we may eventually develop Agi in some exotic way that bear similar resemblance to our existence, just a computational process that exhibits this property called consciousness who knows but as often as I say it's apples to oranges. It's I. Don't know honey crisp to gala or Fujita red. Delicious Carl Sagan said about Apple Pie the point being that. If you frame it this way, the brain is a highly over parameter. Is the machine yet? It's still learns pretty well. We also have artificial machines that are highly over parameter. That's a complication for us there, so maybe just maybe there's a roadmap somewhere in here and things like evolution in urology can point the way forward. Along. This week on the show. I'm talking to reassign one of the authors on the paper, robust fit to nature, an evolutionary perspective on biological and artificial neural networks. Can't. My name is Alexa. I'm Apple Festival. Neil scientists. According to Department at Princeton, university, or can you tell us a little bit about your specific interest? Within neuroscience, we study out the human brain function in the real world, severely using naturalistic setups and care a lot about our people communicate the thought people, non woods and neuroscience and fields. I may be more familiar with like computer, science and machine learning. Certainly, there's some overlap and collaboration, but we're not known for collaboration per. Se yet I know for meeting some of your papers in particular the. The robust fit to nature paper. We're going to discuss. You have a strong fluency in these tools, so I want to ask you. At what point did you become interested in machine learning so relatively recently, I was saying the last five to ten years. What is unique about my? We understand other brain is operating in life, not realistic setups, so we really don't usually use a lot of the control experiment that are used in cognitive sokaia Daniel signs so most of the modeling and competition. Competition Walk in our food was not given to us because it was never applied to listrik setups excitedly sounded like a black tool in in Messina attention to have modest that sort of cognitive problems. For example you have minded cocoon is faces as good as humans. Instead they ask why these like new models are coming out of fill in computer science. Oh, by companies start to slow cognitive problems in life and second to ask out of this mother's relevant to kneel. Scientists are quality. There's. There's a lot of I. Suppose perspectives on this. Certainly the way of human learns in the way machines currently learned I guess some similarities, but they're quite different. Are we even in a place where we can have strong discussions about this, or is there something exotic Lee apples to oranges about the way machines in the human brain work? It's a good question I think. If you ask most of the people in my field, they will say well, not so, what actually really relevant to in? Kings? It was so different and if you look at the Tilles, that people use now to think about the way and psychology and cognitive functions it will also look very different. But the more we looked into this modernist related, actually that they might be to the same family of models as human brain and amusing details, family of models to say that the obviously a lot of differences between biological networks in official neural networks, but we now think that they might belong to the same family of and broadly speaking. What is that family? Can we characterize it in some mathematical way? We. Can I take what unique about? It down models. What is the time to act down model? The title understand and let me explain if you think about go back to the example of faces face net is a model tied to give the proper name, the Labor of the name of the face. We Batticaloa image. If you think about language modern, it's modern to predict the next world in sentence or complete a sentence if you think about driving a car. To drive, so if you think I'm GonNa, sit downing. It's what I to act in performance. Pacific function and they don't think down what a tight to understand the world. To Act in the world, and we stopped to think that the brain also have is like when without desire to act now brain designed to acting six and not designed to understand the situation, and this is very different perspective. Perspective of must people in our field I think actually the to understand other lengths factor so I will give you an example Devesh simple example in I. think it will help us to think let's say I. Five Thousand Points that will simple from Pablo, if a student of mine will come we ten thousand parameters to predict it's like. Like ten thousand nine points or not scientist. He didn't gain any understanding, Abud, on the next track so I really unappreciated if he understood that Pablo can be monitored by CLAMATO.
Listener Mail: An Appreciation for of Cultural Perspectives
"Well maybe we should I take a look at this e mail we got from Ming Now This was in response to our episode. M I B or in IB. I think this was to be feature this from the vault recently. I think we did. I believe we dared. Yeah Yeah So. This episode Concerned similarities underlying traditional paranormal experiences that people attribute to supernatural forces like the Devil. And then you know mid to late twentieth century experiences of the so-called men in black. Or what could be the you know what could be the common underlying psychology and stuff like that With those two types of experiences so essentially we're talking about the ways that ufo beliefs might spring from the same wells is more traditional religious or supernatural beliefs and toward the end of the episode. I think I wondered out loud if there is any modern folklore in Chinese culture similar to the alien abduction in men in black complex in in American culture. I couldn't find any evidence of that but I asked a listeners if they knew of anything like that and so in response. We got this great message from Ming. Ming says hi again Robert Joe. Hope you're both doing well and staying safe inside during this crazy time. Your playlists have been powering me. Through my work. From home days here in Toronto I wanted to write in after listening to the MIT or in IB EPISODE. Again as your conversation about aliens. Mib and what it'd be like In other cultures reminded me of Fu- fun thoughts. I'm not an ancient alien person but I do like to speculate in the name of science fiction and lower Growing up Chinese. I've also fed off of legends and myths of Asia. There's an idiom in Chinese that literally translates to heavenly clothes have no seams but figuratively describes things that are perfect. Flawless and seamless the story behind the idiom was written during the five dynasties and relates that a poet napping outside one night so heavenly figure descending from the skies. She was beautiful in her clothes were glowing. She introduced herself as the Weaver Girl. From the myth of the cowherd in the weaver girl and he noticed that her clothes had no seems when he asked about it. She simply answered. That clothes in heaven are made perfectly do not require stitching and therefore have no seems going off the aliens idea. It's fun to imagine if she had been alien and was wearing some kind of seamless body. Suit that aliens are often Kitted out with in movies to further link it to aliens in space. The weaver girl is the Chinese name. For the star Vega. The cowherd is in alter Which makes me wonder if she'd meant She was from Vega instead of actually being Vega or the weaver girl. Oh like she was from Vega which is great because Vega is where the alien radio signal comes from in. Carl Sagan's contact oh but Back to Ming's message There's also another piece of lore about Chinese legends that loosely relates to the theory of relativity a day in the heavens a year on earth protagonists of stories who were mortal or earthly to start with often. Find out too late that once they ascend to the heavens a single day up in the sky means a year has passed down on earth so the mortal family they once had were all gone by the time they've managed to finish the task. They needed to do up in the heavens. I've read some discussion in Chinese about this. Some people think that the concept came about because ancient people understood that time passes differently depending on perception but a great many who were into fi or the ancient alien troopers. Believe this is possible. Proof that an ancient people understood the theory of relativity because someone somewhere had experience with space travel. Anyway these stories have some very loose ties to things you spoke about in the episode beings descended from the heavens or space ancient alien sleep related phenomena. So thank you both for reminding me of these interesting if stray thoughts. Thank you also for pulling in threads from other cultures while discussing many of your topics it may seem a small act for you but it really enriches the podcast experience for people of other cultures. Keep doing what you do and much love from Toronto. Ming Awesome. Well that was a wonderful male. Obviously love to hear about a multicultural samples of some of the topics we've discussed and the other one was Was a real treat because I guess for me when I'm hearing this. It reminds me a lot of what. I'm pretty sure we discussed in that particular episode. The idea that like an incubus or sucky boatswain in various European traditions would have like a telltale flaw like goat feed or duck feet or something like that They would allow an individual to realize they were dealing with something that is not quite human and in a way this is a version of that right instead of a fly to perfection and like too much. Perfection is kind of a flaw in any sort of design that is allowing inhuman entity passes human. Yeah and I also really like this idea of ancient approximations of relativity now. Obviously I don't think it's very likely that that ancient Chinese people had experience with aliens or space travel. But I do think that relativity is one of those interesting things where you can intuit kind of General version of the theory just from experience of subjective experience of life right like you don't actually know that you know that the That mass or velocity alters space time you know or makes a you know extends or contracts space time you do at least know that time doesn't always feel like it flows at the same rate. Yeah you would. You would have some idea that that toiling in the soil Seems to take all day whereas just you know a an hour of pleasure seems to pass by in a moment so it seems reasonable that there would be the base acumen experience of of relativity. They'd be able to draw on and then working to some sort of You know a mythological structure but I do also like at this idea how there are myths of people going up into the heavens and then experiencing this time dilation It reminds me of like the scene in In interstellar where they have to go down to the planet that's very close to the black hole in the you know for them. They're down there for like twenty minutes or whatever but they come back to their Their their friend and colleague up in the space station. That's been orbiting it in for him. It's been twenty years.
"carl sagan" Discussed on Progressive Talk 1350 AM
"The universe point to as evidence is that life here on earth seems to have emerged the first chance that it had the famous astronomer and science writer Carl Sagan was one of those people he was an optimist when it came to the family paradox he believed that life was out there we just hadn't found it yet Sagan pointed to evidence from the fossil record that here on earth let's begin as early as five hundred million years after the years for it's almost like it was waiting to emerge and since it emerged quickly here on earth it stands to reason that life should emerge were ever gets the chance anywhere in our universe when you take into account the idea that there are perhaps three hundred billion stars in the Milky Way alone even if some small fraction of those have habitable planets that could host life then we should expect to encounter it sometime soon as we spread out to explore the countryside around planet earth if there's a problem with basing our view of the rest of the universe on our own existence the idea that we can gain insight into our universe from our existence is called the anthropic principle and it's vulnerable to a logical fallacy called selection bias being the only intelligent life in the universe we're the only data point in our data set and so we tend to skew the results a little bit it's hard to resist the temptation of cherry picking the data when there's only one chair yes of course life can arise our very existence proves that fact but what it does not prove is that the emergence of intelligent life or any life really is easy or inevitable what is instead life emerging in our universe is really really really hard perhaps.
Explaining Occam's Razor
"Today we're going to discuss a problem solving principle that many of you probably heard of and we've we've definitely referenced on the show before and that is autumn's razor that's right. It's it's one of the classics one of the hits of like the skeptical toolkit and I think it's a really one to get into because it's something that is widely known but in different ways and often To whatever extent it actually does have value. It often gets deployed in ways that do not actually make use of its value right like like an actual razor blade. It may be misused from time to time. Yes now. What one specific place that. I know we've talked about it before. Is that is in the context of Carl? Sagan's recommendations for the the tools of skeptical thinking he these out and one of them is autumn's razor. He writes all comes razor this convenient rule of thumb urges us when faced with two hypotheses that explain the data equally well to choose the simpler. Okay now why did we end up talking about this today? We we were in the studio the other day Discussing upcoming episodes. And you said that. Seth had mentioned this our producer Seth Yeah. I was in here and set a nickel Johnson was working on. A crossword puzzle was at the New York. Times he tells us it was the New York Times And he he asked me how to spell. Autumn is in razor and I took a guess at it and I can't I can't remember. I was correct. I was probably wrong but also probably hit one of the multiple acceptable spell things for razor But anyway we started talking about it and I was like. Oh Yeah we we could do that as an episode and so here we are. I'm very glad we picked this because I think one of my personal favorite genres of of critical thinking is is being skeptical about the tools of skepticism. You know is sometimes people who identify skeptics can ca- can I get a little cocky. You know they get a little too sure of themselves about what the reasoning tools they use and it's worth putting those tools to the test. Giving them a closer look. Yeah absolutely now I have to say I definitely remember. The first time I encountered the concept of outcomes raise or at least the first time I encountered it and it on some level stuck with me and that was when viewed the Nineteen ninety-seven film adaptation of Carl Sagan's novel contact the movie. I can't watch without crying. Oh Yeah Yeah Yeah well. Why does it make you cry? Oh God there's no point especially the first part where you know it. Zooms out from the earth and you're hearing the radio signals go back in time and then and then it shows the young. L. E. Airway experimenting with the Ham Radio and her dad's helping her and get so emotional. Yeah Yeah it's it's been a very long I. I haven't seen it since initially came out and in fact the main thing I remember from it is seen in which jodie foster's character. Eleanor Airway has having this conversation with Matthew mcconaughey as character. Who How old was Matthew mcconaughey at this point? I don't even know how old he is. Now is this ageless demon but anyway. Here's this character He's scared Palmer. Joss in the scene in question foster's character brings up autumn's razor in a discussion on the nature of God she. She says well which is ultimately the simpler hypothesis that an all powerful God exists or the human beings made got up in order to feel better about things and then this ultimately comes back around is kind of flipped on her later on film regarding her characters encounter with an extraterrestrial intelligence right. Is it more likely that she really had the experience? She thinks she had with With all these aliens or that. She like hallucinated. Something that would give her emotional closure. Yeah and so. Yeah I think I was in high school at the time so it was. It was interesting concept especially in the context of of atheism verses of faith in a creator deity inserted to suddenly have this tool from the chest. Skeptical thinking just thrown up on the table and you and seemingly used by both sides. Well Yeah I think this is funny. This is a great example because it highlights some of the most common features of all comes razor as it is actually used to like. It's often invoked in a kind of fuzzy way without an objective measure Just kind of invoked to back up your intuitions about the probability of something right but another thing is that this example shows how. It's not always easy to find a way to compare the simplicity of two different propositions like is the existence of God a simple hypothesis or a complicated one that I think that really depends on kind of how you feel about it like like what kind of objective measure can you come up with to evaluate that question right. It's GonNa depend so much on your like your background your culture what you grew up with. And you know how you how you've come to view the possibility of Of God's existence. Is it just kind of the bedrock of your your worldview or is it this thing from the outside that you are contemplating and also how do you view it at like the coherence of the idea? Do you view it as something. That's like That's full of all these little kind of ad hoc accommodations or something that is a holistic coherent Sort of like fact about nature. Yeah you know I it's I I think this is a perfect example. That shows like win. People used the idea volumes razor in a way that is not helpful and doesn't really doesn't really get you any closer to figuring out what's true now if you're if you're still questioning what the concept really means. Don't worry we will get to some. I think some very understandable examples of how it can be a used properly and used improperly. But let's go ahead and just start about the concept itself the the word autumn You know where this comes from. We'll get to the origins of autumn's razor so Oxfam's razor is also known as the principle of parsimony and parsimony means a tendency towards cheapness or frugality. So I like that. It's like the principle of parsimony is like you. You want to be cheap with your with your logic right yeah. I don't need more than two steps of logic between me and the solution. Don't give me one with four or five. And it was named after the Medieval English philosopher William of autumn. Of course William of Arkham So he he lived in the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries from twelve eighty five to either thirteen seven or thirteen forty nine. I've seen different death dates given forum. I've seen different birthdates as well. Eighty seven twelve. Eighty eight looking at That's interesting so he was a prolific scholar. Franciscan friar we'll get more into his ideas in a minute. I you know one thing I've always wondered is where the heck is awesome. I've never heard of that. Well yeah because the word sound has kind of like a remoteness to it. It sounds alien in some ways. Autumn is very much a real place. It is a rural village. In Surrey England. You can look it up online. You can find that the website for the church in Oxfam for example and this area has been occupied since ancient times. It's about a day's ride south west of London and it was the birthplace of the individual who'd come to be known as William Volume now beyond that beyond the fact that he was born here. We don't know a lot about William's life We don't know what his social or family background was or if his native language was French or Middle English. As Paul Vincent Spadea explains in the Cambridge companion to Arkham he was likely given over to the Franciscan order as a young boy. Before the age of fourteen and here Latin would have quickly become his language of not only writing but also just conversation Grey Friars Convent in. London was likely his home convent but later he traveled he visited Avalon he visited Italy and he lived the last two decades of his life in Germany. Now philosophically William was a Nominal List and spayed writes that the two main themes of this for William were the rejection of universals and ontological reduction in these two teams are are not necessarily interconnected like you can you. Could you could believe in one but not the other and vice versa but basically like let's get into what these mate so the first rejection of universals is perhaps best considered and this is very brief and broad Certainly you can find so much written in instead on this topic but basically think of it as a rejection of the tonic idea of the realm of forms. So that idea that all chairs that we might make design and carve a symbol are an attempt to create the perfect chair which doesn't reside in our world but only resides within this realm of forms. So all chairs that we create our like an aspiration for the ideal chair another way. I've thought about it at least as I understood it was. The nominalism is kind of the idea that there is no such thing as a chair. There's only this chair and that chair in this chair over here. There is no chair right like this. This is the kind of the situation gets too. When you you get into the genre classifications of say albums artists or movies. You care a great deal about and someone tries to limit it to a classification and say oh well that's classic rock where that's alternative rock near like. No no no no no. Don't don't try and fit there is there. Is these categories. Do not apply. There is there is only you know whatever. Your band of choice happens to be. There is only tool. There is only primis or whatever right there yeah there. There is only things not category right. Now let's move onto the second theme here. Ontological reduction this is as Britannica defines it quote the metaphysical doctrine that entities of a certain kind are in reality collections or combinations of entities of simpler or more basic kind. I think your classic example here is molecules atoms. Yeah so another example. Here's while our aristotle defined ten categories of objects that might be apprehended by a human mind. These would have been translations vary on on how you wanted to find these but substance quantity quality relative place time attitude condition action and affection. William cut these down to two substance and quality. He's really getting in there. That's the razor. That's what a razor Dutt. Cia slices away. It cuts off the fat and gets down to the meat. Spayed writes quote. Although these two strands of thinking are independent. They are nevertheless often viewed as joint effects of a more fundamental. Concern the principle of parsimony known as Oxfam's razor okay. So we're getting to the razor. Yeah so William. Devoted a lot of energy to arguing against What spade calls the bloated onto logical in inventories of his contemporaries and became well known to his peers for this as such either towards the end of his life or shortly after his death a kind of greatest hits album came out on his thoughts and ideas titled On the Principles of Theology? Now it wasn't actually by William of Arkham but it featured his doctrine as well as verbatim quotes there is no ascribed author either so later generations would often just attribute it to him as well as the notion of outcomes razor however the specific phrase was apparently never actually used by him. He never said autumn in the house. I'M GONNA get the razor out and started carving on some some some some some ideas
The radical experimenters: a rapper, a poet, and a biological artist
"The first three minutes of the universe doesn't expansion simultaneously Teini Asli everywhere not zero second but close the first hundred of a second hotter than the hottest star blew hot bruting rooting halt. The nor Smith Says Earth was not found or heaven above but in a yawning gap. That was grasp but no way there were no vikings kings. No Vanilla no lampshades but there was Lego like for life in the first three minutes of the universe everything started added to come together. ferment began to develop lips to form the word poem. one-star dreamed of turning away and now they're just so it could have time. I'm to shape clay. The universe became a rogue gallery of Jigsaw fighting for space and in quiet moments. Mango juice squeezed from the heavens and sparkled like Shaq suits. There was the first spoonful of the CARTWHEEL GALAXY N G C one. Three six five with its. Jim Like bots spiraled wills sentence hyperion Jupiter's moons pulsars born cramping the styles of the middle. I molecules began collecting just so that the wood Po Quaid could be part of this missing in the first three minutes of the universe. Atoms rose dancing and just like the poet. Rumi said they were dancing like madmen. Happy on miserable and they just kept on dancing lover. Melvin poet and performer Alicia. Sometimes there with her pace the first three minutes of the universe and Tesha Mitchell joining you for science friction. We're at this end of the universe you are about to in Canada. I eight poetry cosmos a biological artist who grows organisms as living artworks and a rat performer. Whose lyrics ricks pulse site with? Science Professor Oren Katz is co-founder of the Tissue Culture and art project and director of the University of Western. Australia's influential art. Science lab symbiotic. Baba Brinkman is a new york-based rep performer and playwright whose awesome Rep God's to science audits range from climate change to consciousness and Alicia sometimes is most recent show. Particle wave gathered audiences under planetarium dimes times. These three creative experiment is pushing the elastic boundaries of both at n science and shared a stage at the quantum words festival in Perth. Recently cently he's Aleisha reflecting on those first three minutes. What we want to do when we passion about and scientists connect with an audience? And I I have that problem I'm full of hyperbole and scientists aren't and I love that about them and they care about the mess they care about the facts and I hear all that and I read all that and then I'm just like oh his blitz. He's some poetry so I remember Reading Steven Weinberg's book the first three minutes of the universe and it's full of great fact so this was my interpretation mango juice squeezing from the heavens technically correct Richt by the way the physicists would disagree in that universe buddies taking a obviously a poetic license. But that's what I as a poet what I can never find the right words and the reason the movie dirty dancing connected so well with me. Is that moment. That one of the main characters is carrying a watermelon win and she goes up to Patrick swayze who she likes and says. I carried a watermelon. And that's all she can say and that is what I am like so often. I can't find the exact words and I love that about science that they can find words really matter and in a scientific communication or scientific paper hyper words mean everything but I love as a poet. I can sort of pie around with that and Taika Pot. Isn't it interesting that you draw contrast because as I often think when I'm reading your work that infect poetry and science scherer conciseness and brevity of language precision each word gets placed with intent. And yet your thinking of the relationship is quite contrasted. I totally understand what you're saying. And Brevity is so true and as a poet and I'm sure poets in the audience. They can understand this. Every word matters this and carries it's white but the thing is how do you communicate dark matter. Or how do you communicate Nebula something in biology or does I mean I can never find the right words. I love in contact. A film inspired by. Carl Sagan's book by the same. I'm Nice Cellular pinup boy. I'm so glad it was there. I didn't know you were gonNA talk about him. When demon haunted world is such an important political inspiring because well the Jodi foster character Elliott Airway says when she's thrust into space they should have center poet and finally why Korea I get to go in space so maybe on Amazon or something? I'll get to go just to ago. Mango juice everywhere. Do you feel like you could take sides. Or is that that's not your raisin for you all the Wanda I'm about to wonder in storytelling. I do understand that sometimes the failure of can you just beautifying science and that is somehow not enough and and that's why I love what so many people do is they take it apart in question and what aren was hanging is just so incredible what they do but I yes yeah so just like the storytelling and I really need to communicate it to audiences so they can just take away a little bit of wondering their pocket full of wonder. Hey John Adams Americans said you never learn if you have a poet in your pocket. I just loved that I said what are you trying to do with. I've seen your show particle wave. which takes you inside a planetarium? Describe it for people but also what you're hoping to do with that piece it's musical visual Poetic Extravaganza yes. I loved canvas of the Planetarium Dome and from when I was young and a lot of you would feel feel the Siamese diaby lie back. And you've got this gorgeous. Almost three sixty canvas above you and so I wanted to use that canvas to sell tell held. The story of gravitational waves got to work with a lot of scientists and I recorded a lot of scientists and I want the general public to coming and have a sense of awe four so it mixes poetry music visuals just to tell the story from general relativity some black holes look lookit to kill an and just sort of pint pitcher and I want people to come out and say well I might go read up on that but I had a science instinct come in an eighteen year old. He said that she walked in wanting to do chemistry and came out wanting to do gravitational wave astronomy. And I'm like my works done. That's enough poet delicious. Sometimes there when you think about rap song lyrics what comes to mind politics. Maybe six drugs love last year. American crime and punishment. Absolutely what about science though not really well here as Baba Brinkman canadian-born and and married to a neuroscientist at some point these graduate in comparatively chat court the science bug big time and he's now a renowned science communicate through he's rap gods to things like climate change evolution human nature religion and culture my first rap theater popularisation project CHAUCER's Canterbury Tales and a An evolutionary biologists in England saw that and he said good job. Now do you think you could do for Darwin. What you did for Chaucer and the first time I was introduced to do a performance which was at the Darwin Bicentennial Mark Pailin? The biologist introduced me by saying. Don't worry I checked his lyrics. You're about to witness the first ever rap performance. That's peer reviewed house like peer reviewed rap. That's the best idea ever confession. Spend my whole life perplexed. By Religiousness Front doorstep debating with Jehovah Witnesses I was a teenaged empirical thinker a spiritual seeker obsessed with rap. I considered it liberal research. This was the medium the Daca thinking speaking flipping ridiculous speech over beats like every weekend weekend my CD collection became my personal gospel. I wasn't apostle I think part of it was an unexpected side effect of doing science. This communication rap projects and that side effect was that I became way more gangster rapper
"carl sagan" Discussed on Progressive Talk 1350 AM
"Astronomer and science writer Carl Sagan was one of those people he was an optimist when it came to the fair me paradox he believed that life was out there we just hadn't found it yet Sagan pointed to evidence from the fossil record that here on earth let's begin as early as five hundred million years after the years for it's almost like it was waiting to emerge and since it emerged quickly here on earth it stands to reason that life should emerge were ever gets the chance anywhere in our universe when you take into account the idea that there are perhaps three hundred billion stars in the Milky Way alone even the some small fraction of those have habitable planets that could host life then we should expect to encounter it sometime soon as we spread out to explore the countryside around planet earth there's a problem with basing our view of the rest of the universe on our own existence the idea that we can gain insight into our universe from our existence is called the anthropic principle in its vulnerable to a logical fallacy called selection bias being the only intelligent life in the universe where the only data point and our data set and so we tend to skew the results a little bit it's hard to resist the temptation of cherry picking the data when there's only one chair yes of course life can arise our very existence proves that fact but what it does not prove is that the emergence of intelligent life or any life really is easy or inevitable what is instead life emerging in our universe is really really really hard perhaps.
Ross and Carrie Meet Nick Little: Homeopathic Lawsuit Edition
"Hello and welcome Ndo no Ross. And Carrie the show where we don't just report on for in science spirituality and claims of the paranormal but take part ourselves Yup when they make claims we show up. So you don't have to. I'm nick little. I'm Carrie. Poppy I as well to nick little. I'm spartacus the lawyers in the room. Thinks on his feet I guess. No we have a special guest today. Nick little welcome tone arising thank you good to be here. I pleasure you met nick in Las Vegas yes at Sei con and then again here in Los Angeles shortly thereafter and and Nick was giving an excellent talk about a fight against homeopathy. But Nick has a very special position as the sole lawyer I am. CF is legal department. Yes yes this is at now center for inquiry. Yeah we talk about CFI every now and then on the show we all talk about the CFI the investigations group wing of that. I've been involved with for many many years and our first episode was recorded at the old. CF I- office and guess what we are now at the new CFI office which is still in La but now on Temple Street yeah come on by visit. There's going to be lectures all kinds of stuff. And that's at least that the old one that's where Kerry and I I met that's right club a club. I'm now co lead of that Book Club. We still meet every month if anybody's in L. A.. And wants to come talk about. Books is trying to get people to your book. I am absolutely the more the Mary Nick. How long have you been working with just over six years? I think it was six years in September that I started. And how did they lure you in. I'd like to give this sort of great story about how you know. I was led by the heart and emotion to the nonprofit world but I'll to law school I worked for a a big law. Firm represented fortune five hundred companies and received obscene paychecks. So doing and probably would of ended up doing that for the rest of my life because the paychecks are really compelling sure I'm syncing regretted and my phone went bankrupt really ooh God which which kind of happens to law firms occasionally and just imploded and through a combination of very weird circumstances and says I was offered another couple of jobs and failed the conflict check because I've done and then I was offered a job and it turned out that it was the law firm that my brother works for in the London office. And they have anti nepotism world. But he's not your nephew. Indeed you know I got. I need a job. I saw advertised that which was an organization. Confess I had never heard of. I was looking for somebody to though I amendment law which was kind of a passion of mine and so I applied without thinking a lot about that and then the more all right look at the organization I was like this is great. And if I don't get out of the big low world now I am never going to do it right. I'm so I took the plunge and I went off from work and I always say that I much prefer my job now to my old job two days a month when eh the first one came into nightly took it back to run Lensey at the time. I think there's a misprint. No zero somewhere. Oh my goodness misplaced. We should probably describe. CFI A little more. The center for inquiry was founded in nineteen seventy six thereabouts By Paul Kurtz and other leading lights of the critical thinking skeptical humanist Atheist Movement you had Isaac Asimov Carl Sagan. I'm James Randi Lot of those types involved early on in it's kind of existed for many years in two parts. You have your council for secular humanism which is all about sort of that humanist side more the philosophy side and then what was originally the committee for skeptical inquiry of claims of the paranormal S. I I just notice I cop yes okay. Not sure I had ever known instead I I may have messed up the CSI part of it because now it's just CSI it's not to be confused with CSI Miami or the other TV shows but it's the committee for skeptical inquiry. I think the original psycho had a different acronym boot good. Yeah so you came in six years ago now. We really brushed past what sounded like a very juicy. You See story what the Hell happened with your firm and what what were your conflicts of interest. This is the real juicy stuff neck. I wish I mean I wish the the foam went bankrupt Tom if they even have. La Office okay and a fell into the problem of expanding too quickly. Okay and have have a Salt Lake City office. I think which never made any money. Okay Mormons elements and they don't do anything wrong. Yeah and what happened with me on conflicts. lex They totally bizarre was had done seven hours work on a huge class action lawsuit that was representing. I can't even remember if we were representing or defending against the dairy farmers of microbes. Like milk price fixing literally did seven billable hours on this house else. Just something I filled in when I had some slow time And we would have to have got a signature to waive the conflict from every single angled member of the plaintiff's class that was like every thousand dairy amazing. CIC probably wasn't going to happen so net could go off from what for another. Solis got it. Wow a milky or story than I thought but not that. Jessie yes. Okay so then you came here. Also Solis but in a good way. Yes yes good solace and you were drawn to the First Amendment side of things so why would cfi what. Why would they be interested in First Amendment Law? Well they advertised the position in this was I was a little concerned about it I they described himself as a secular organization tonight. The first time I read it I thought it said sectarian organizations convinced applying to sort of a Catholic human human rights so tons out so get it did was talking about work and international human rights work and charged site separation law. And if you look at law school everyone takes criminal law classes in everyone takes the constitutional law classes because that Pham on and it's Great. It provides you conversation to talk about in bars some when you walk in lower northern things and then you end up working proofreading some four hundred page contracts for an oil company. Nobody practices what they want to. And everybody goes to law school saying I'm going to be a public defender or I'm going going to be a prosecutor on the. I'm going to work for a nonprofit and no one ever done you end up doing the drywall in the the lawyer industry. Yes and you get rewarded awarded very very nicely for but every lawyer I know they live for that. Pro Bono cases. Yeah I had some great ones arm and gives you a chance to you feel I making the world a better place. Exactly one person at the time you get the cool stories out of at night so many thought. Maybe I will get to do this like all the time. We're on the five percent of the time that my law firm would allow me to work not paid.
"carl sagan" Discussed on KLBJ 590AM
"Which is in and that cannot be constructed and reconstructed by mechanical means so there are a lot of claims in this field but there's also a B. S. do let's go to Walter in Allentown Pennsylvania Hey walls go ahead hi George Walter always great to talk to George yeah with all due respect to Mr strictly we admit the eminent Dr Neil degrasse Tyson were on with us he would reflect what the enter doctor Carl Sagan used to say George I think yeah we have to be careful to differentiate science fact from science fiction I think allergy to a lot of people who have lives it has become like a religion George you're a lot of people are are substituting aliens for angels George we've talked about the pirate matching gesture in on the show before in nineteen seventy nine thousands of people and inside I'm up toward your goal she wore that the virgin Mary because of the sun to fall out of the sky in George in nineteen thirty eight one Orson wells war of the worlds on the radio why yeah because it nationwide but I like people thought but so you know we're being visited hold on Walter we're going to finish up with you when we come back right after the break I want to get you in there Walt is our resident skeptic their plans hang with us and we'll get to get to his question and will take the rest of the calls next on coast to coast AM to access the audio archives of coast to coast AM log on to coast to coast AM dot com.
"carl sagan" Discussed on SPACE NEWS POD
"carl sagan" Discussed on SPACE NEWS POD
"One way in which this was found was to consider the question of the phases of of the planets. Now we know that the moon goes through phases we see fool moon half Moon Quarter Moon Crescent Moon noon but what about the planets. It's now in the old earth centered view the the planets in this case. Venus or imagined is a lovely old book which has moving parts unlike books today. It's only accidentally having been barts. This one is moving on purpose. Venus was imagine to go around the earth would also to have a little internal motion. Listen of its own. And that view with the sun out beyond Venus made a certain prediction about the phases of Venus would sometimes see partly illuminated Venus. Sometimes you fool illuminated Venus but no one had a telescope go to see whether Venus went through phases and if so what kind now here is the earth centered view of the universe with the earthier and the planets and the sun going around around the earth. This is the supposed orbit of the Sun and in the Sun centred view of the universe universe the planets including the earth around the sun and as this old picture shows go through phases well in the sun centred entered view or hypothesis. Let's try and see what the phases ought to be like. What I'm going to do is to have someone can be earth and someone be Venus and I will try to be the sun and just because because somebody biggest operate and Let's see what the phases of Venus would be like. So couldn't we have an earth person. Thank you this is an excellent earth person. Could you please stand by. Let's say a few steps up by that camera and we will. We will be Eventually viewing things on the television screen from the point of view of that camera and that birth person and could we have a Venus person. Venus is a planet completely covered with clouds. Although it's a very nasty place on its surface and so we have this completely clean. The sphere representing Venus. And could you stay there for just one woman and what I'm going to do is point this light representing representing the sun at Venus. Now if this were a real sun would be shining in all directions of course but then everybody in the audience would be blinded by the light from this and you can see what was happening here. So I'm going to simply follow the motion of us around the Sun as seen from the earth the earth really ought to be moving around the sun also but that would be a little awkward Earth would have to step over people's knees and so on so we're having the earth stationary but the point will still be made so now. Venus who please slowly circle son you can do it a little faster than that. Actually it takes two hundred and twenty five days to go around but we we'll do it somewhat faster that and now notice how we are going into having or half Venus Crescent Venus and Venus passing by the sun and now crescent comes around again and Venus nicely walking backwards into a half Venus and Growing phase grows and soon we we'll be back near fool. Venus thank you very much miss Venus the thank you very much Miss Earth now. That kind of motion is exactly what Galileo found Venus to do when he looked at it with the first telescope several hundred years ago and Galileo found that the wax and winning the changing from crescent to fool actor crescent of Venus did exactly what the Sun centred hypothesis predicted and not at all what the Earth centered hypothesis predicted. And that's one of the lines of evidence evidence that the earth is not the center. Now if we actually look at a picture of Venus we see that It does go through phases. This is a telescopic view Venus. And just show you this so you will believe. Leave me if I say Venus goes through phases actually The Earth also goes through phases and In this picture is a lovely picture of the Earth as seen from the Moon the moon. WHO's in the foreground and the crescent above the is the earth as seen from them and it goes through phases? If you figure it out for just the same reason that Venus or the moon does as Azeem from Europe know these are the. This is the geometry of the solar system. But we haven't said anything about scale. How big is the solar system? There are lots of ways of finding out the simplest of which is by radar. You send a radar pulse to a planet it hits. The planet comes back. You measure how long it took you know how fast radio or light travels travels at the speed of light and easy hundred eighty six thousand miles second hundred thousand kilometers a second and so half of the transit time gives you the distance and in this way we can determine for example that The Earth is about a hundred and fifty million kilometres ninety three million miles from the sun. I hear I hear an echo which that's supposed to hear quite yet And what we'd like to do is to give a sense of the scale of the solar system by having someone in the audience Say something like Let's say Hello Universe seems innocuous enough remark And let us see how long it takes for that remark to get to various places Starting With the Moon Who would like to say hello into the universe? That's good lots of people would like to say hello to the universe. Oh so would we. That's why we sent the voyager record. Would you please say pillow now. That was a one and a quarter second time delay which ages by accident. Just how long it takes for light or radio to travel from the Earth to the moon. Now what we have here a diagram which has just been a started out. to indicate the rate of progress progress of a signal sent by radio from the earth into space. So here's the orbit of the Earth and we will see how long it takes for that signal to get to the orbits of the other planets Venus Mercury Interior Planets Mars the next planet out. Here's The sun and we'll be out here and So in the next few minutes we will follow the progress of a radio signal and this is the fastest that anything can travel level so what we are going to see. Is the fastest travel time. That is possible now. What I would like to do now is to while we're waiting for the lights to get to other planets to begin a discussion of of a particular planet? We would like to study in some depth a strange and exotic world. Let us imagine that we know nothing about this world that we have no prior information about it and we approach it with absolutely open minds. We have no prejudices about whether it's it's inhabited or not whether there volcanoes or rivers or if dr inhabitants what they look like maybe they are all squamous this blue avoids with thirty tentacles and flute one meter above the ground. Or perhaps that's what we look like Perhaps we're from some of the other planet let's say and We will examine this distant and exotic world which by accident is the earth and I we will look at it from telescopes from our world and it will be little and we will not see much detail and then we will come closer and closer and look with. We just heard another hello universe because our radio signal has just gotten to Venus and we will shortly be interrupted by another hello universe. Tomorrow's he's just keeping reminding us of the the progress of our radio message. We will look mostly with photographs with first from our planet. Does I said then we will put cameras on imaginary spacecraft which will fly by the earth than going to orbit about the earth and then land end on the earth and look around and see whatever is to be seen now in addition to looking we can use scientific instruments to determine other factors about a planet for example we could pass the sunlight reflected off the planet through a device called a spectra scope which which divides.
How Does Venus Work?
"After the moon the Venus is the second brightest natural object in the night sky partially because this planet is covered by reflective clouds that make it is an optical telescopes can't penetrate eight with the Venetian surface hidden from view generations of fiction writers used to speculate wild about the mysterious terrain beneath those clouds for example Tarzan Creator Edgar Rice burroughs portrayed Venus as a world with lush forests in our boreal cities in a nineteen eighty-four pulp novel but then science intervened B eight at Venus's habitable pretty much imploded during the Cold War in Nineteen fifty-six Radio Telescope observations showed that the planet had surfaced temperatures in excess of six hundred and eight eighteen degrees Fahrenheit that's three hundred twenty six degrees Celsius and believe it or not those readings were kind of low we now know the average surface temperature on Nisa blistering eight hundred sixty four degrees Fahrenheit or four hundred sixty two Celsius it's the hottest planet in our solar system even though mercury is closer to the Sun on the face of Venus the atmospheric pressure is crushingly extreme and lead would melt into a puddle but as hellish as this place sounds actually has in common with Earth the two worlds are quite similar in size if you were to stuff venus inside our planet matric doll style it would occupy roughly eighty six percent end of earth total volume Venus has earth beaten in some key regards though earth displays a slight midsection bulge being wider around its equator than it is from one pole to the other conversely Venus is almost a perfect sphere what gives well when a massive celestial body like a star or planet spins quickly around its axis centrifugal force will give it a more dramatic bulge around its equator however Venus has an ultra slow rotation speed it takes the equivalent of two hundred and forty-three earth days for Venus to complete one full rotation around its axis and only two hundred twenty five earth days to finish a new lap around the Sun so in other words a day on Venus lasts longer than Vanesian year does and get this from our self centered perspective Venus spins backward word most of the planets in the solar system rotate from west to east Uranus and Venus Buck that trend on those two worlds the sun appears to rise in the West and set in the East nobody knows how that came to pass. Astronomers think Venus us to move in a counterclockwise direction like Earth but at some point it's been I have reversed alternatively perhaps the sun's Gravitational influence or a collision with a large object caused the entire planet to flip upside down in December of nineteen sixty two Venus became the first planet to get a fly by visit from a manmade spacecraft exploiting brief window of opportunity NASA's Mariner two probes studied this world up close from distances as near as twenty one thousand miles that's about thirty four thousand kilometers onboard instruments taught us a great deal mariner two firms that Venus does not have an earth like magnetic field and it recorded surface temperatures within the expected range a young Carl Sagan helped design the mariner to probe yes successfully lobbied to have the space craft fitted with a camera because close up pictures of Venus might quote answer questions that we were too dumb to even pose by the time Mariner to launched scientists already knew that there were high levels of carbon dioxide in the vision atmosphere and that composition should give us pause carbon dockside makes up a whopping ninety six percent of Venus's atmosphere scientists attribute this to a runaway greenhouse effect theoretically the planet used to have a more temperate climate that could have remained stable for billions of years back then oceans of liquid water may have covered its surface though we don't know for sure things changed as are growing son became hotter any oceans would have evaporated during this time astronomers think much of the carbon dioxide invasion rocks leached out and traveled guy word while the atmosphere changed it got better at trapping heat creating a vicious cycle that worsens the problem inevitably temperatures spiked and stayed since our own planet has a major greenhouse gas problem Venus could offer us important insights regarding climate change but sending probes to explore it has always presented major challenges on Venus the surface gravity is comparable to what you and I experience on earth what's not comparable is that atmospheric Asher which is ninety two times greater on the face of Venus than it is here faced with extreme temperatures and high pressure it's no wonder that manmade objects don't last long long in the planet's environment when the Soviet venire thirteen probe landed on Venus in Nineteen eighty-two it stayed intact for record setting one hundred and twenty seven minutes before it was destroyed mind you this wasn't the USSR's first Rodeo previous Venero spacecraft's successfully visited the planet's atmosphere and touched down on its outer crest brief though their visits were these probes captured the first ever photographs of the Venetian surface Nasr's Magellan spacecraft provided further insights has it mapped ninety eight percent of the planet's face all in all Venus boasts more than sixteen thousand volcanoes and volcanic features but we don't know of any these are still active highland plateaus deep canyons and meteorite impact craters have also been discovered there although Venus's about four point six billion years old crest is thought to be much younger with an estimated age of just three hundred to six hundred million years Venus lacks tectonic plates as we know them on earth nonetheless Sunday August think that upwelling magma occasionally recycle sections of the crust long before it was an object scientific study or of Edgar Rice burroughs. goals Venus mesmerized our ancestors bright and beautiful the cloud adorned planet derives its name from the Roman Goddess of love into mathematicians mapped it's progress across the sky and Galileo took detailed notes about its moon like phases somehow knowing that Venus is a stifling hot house doesn't diminish its allure with every new discovery inspires curiosity aw
"carl sagan" Discussed on 600 WREC
"Three one zero one one. so the last hour I was running a little bit about something I read over the weekend. what a lot of cool things that are happening in a lot of things it can I get under my skin. about what's going on on space the announcement about life out in space what may be going on on Mars and. all the other places in between. but early NASA's announced same vicious trips to the moon twenty twenty four. Artemis twin sister of Apollo which is kind of an interesting twist twenty twenty four planning going to the moon and then having a base bill by twenty twenty eight we set the plan but then we heard that so to have a really Ryan thing didn't have with Ryan so we're still waiting to see if this is going to continue. also there is going to be a a trip to Mars I guess next summer they're sending the twenty twenty rover. and they're going to tag teaming with the XO Mars rover from the European Space Agency and this time they're going to drill into our lease good take drill into the crust of bars to look at the rock Castro biology. and lead Jim green who is the director of the planetary science division NASA has said Hey guys this means the life we announced about life on Mars is coming soon dangling that because we care it again life on Mars is coming soon but you know what we don't think the public is ready to hear it yet they're not prepared for it yet. I was with I'm sure you I had going what really is this really being said by someone at NASA especially coming from the director of planetary science division specially when NASA is actually been talking up the idea of life in space that you know planet after planted and Kepler in it and see you know this teaming up I think is a great idea because what the ExoMars rover will find with the twenty twenty rover will find can be compared for data and we can make the announcer the world they find something underneath the radioactive regolith of Mars but again here we are back to NASA dangling because we care telling us that they'll find life soon. even though it's obvious they already found life out there at least you know as far as I know because you go back to the Viking missions and you go back to you know Gilbert Levin and you go back to you know all the others that have you know come forward with you know data and and science and NASA is just stepped in and said Hey nothing to see here don't get all worked up about it because it's nothing and then you know of course one of the pioneers of it all Richard C. Hoagland of the enterprise mission thing about Richard as is that from time ad infinitum since he's been on this planet giving us information he is brought forward some of the most intriguing and interesting stuff about Mars is the principal investigator founder of the enterprise mission as well as the vision of the voice of the other side of midnight thanks for metal the former science adviser to CBS news Walter Cronkite off of best selling books the monuments of Mars and the dark mission the secret is your guy NASA together with Carl Sagan Richard C. Hoagland co created the pioneer plaque and predicted life on Europa is groundbreaking paper the Europa proposal as we publish thirty seven years before NASA announced it would doing anything of Europa his vision is inspired a whole new generation pioneers of thought and form an open the way for citizen scientists around the globe to open their minds to new ideas his work has is emulated by cutting edge thinkers around the world is a thought leader a pioneer is breaking the bonds of staggered our cake scientific models but the welcome Richard C. Hoagland back to ground zero Richard you there. Clyde how the hell do I follow that everything from now on is going to be downhill I was gonna blow trumpets and stuff too but I just don't have any in that. announcing Richard C. Hoagland you know here's the thing I want to ask you this question is NASA getting cliche because here's the deal one green said what he said over the weekend he says well coming soon Martian life and he said I don't think the public is ready to hear it I'm thinking are you kidding me this is so straight out of Brookings. the Brookings report yeah he debuted decades ago yes this official NASA government study that NASA commissioned right after Eisenhower created NASA mmhm which basically paraphrased who was who was of the printing actor in a few good men okay like in like a mile wide you can't handle the truth yeah yeah bands been their attitude for decades and decades and decades as Jack Nicholson by the way Jack Nicklaus yes yes how do you handle the truth yeah well that's the way I mean that see that's the thing is that yes we can I mean we as a pro well but see that's not honest it's not the truth green statement is full of missed direction and deception like a whole bunch of stuff going on in Washington these days. because if if it's ever admit it. everything will change and the folks on top have only one place to go. down the hill toward the bottom and they will fight to the death to maintain their positions of power and the discovery we're not alone even if it's something as miniscule as a bacterium on Mars threatens their whole universe their house of cards their power complex their complex multi leveled games that they've been running on this for you know hundreds of years. what's going on I've been hearing rumors actually there was something I was reading of the other day about how well the military is talking and and lessen the stigma of reporting UFOs with the recent discoveries of the tech tech videos whatever scientists now some of them I've gotten angry and I decide to push other signs instead of the feel they're starting to talk about possibility of life out in space because of what was shown with New York times is revealed was in twenty seventeen about the name it's everything else at and what they're doing is is they're basically saying well this is all conspiracy theory anybody plays in that realm of pseudo science we don't want to have anything to do with them so now science is basically putting the stigma daunted scientists who wish to leap forward in now stop playing in the old ways and start talking about quantum physics and start point about all that. well the good news is events are going to overtake all these characters. green statement if you read between the lines you know some of the stuff that we're going to talk about with your audience tonight how much time we got well whatever you want if you you know where this is going to get interesting I know I know we said in our but maybe it's gonna be two hours because I can't I I when I have you want it's like I got to just keep your eye all I always come prepared yeah. I'm just sitting here you know I'm I'm Bob ranting well all right. let me let me get the good stuff right there on his. good yeah that was the good stuff okay in the piece on Green which you brought up as an editorial which I just got and I didn't have time to read the whole thing so I skimmed it. you mentioned a movable up I'm okay for those who don't know what we're talking about folks a move over just a year ago just a week or two shy of a year ago this bizarre object went sailing through the inner solar system from the direction of the constellation of life which is like ninety degrees to the plane of the solar system like a big old LP record zip down past the sun made a sharp left hand turn and headed out toward I think it was Pegasus at speeds in excess of the escape velocity from the sun so it was the first bona fide everybody agrees interstellar visitor coming in from the dark right. it only appeared in even the biggest telescopes as a point of light. but it was a really really really weird point of light because it was moving like a bat out of hell mmhm and it was not tethered by gravity to the sun it fell in word and then fell out we're just keeping forever it'll never come back and we had nothing in this brief time span that they knew it was around the could go out and chase it can catch it and look at it. so everything we know about a mobile Mila by the way the name comes from the Hawaiian. which NASA said and they they lied about this they said it meant first visitor from afar mmhm. no the real definition found by my one of my colleagues Keith Laney. in the online dictionary of normal means. scout first out of all war party. well think about that. NASA names the first interstellar visitor. as an aggressive enemy alien. first out of a war party well like a battle ship it looked like a flying battleship opened up we never saw it member it's only point of light right all those images you saw were are just reconstructions based on analysis of what's called the light Kerr. because one of the first things that the big guys with big telescopes noticed in this frenzy all over the world as a single sailing passage was only seen when it passed the sun on the way out we didn't get along the way in. all they saw was this thing was varying wildly in brightness. I something like a factor of ten to one a little point of light winking. in the dark every few hours by a factor of ten to one. so they put their computers together in they've locked up a lot could you can do this kind of you know by retro analysis in what would this object have to look like to very if you assume with spinning if it's tumbling to very by a factor of ten to one. and that's when they came up with this very very long cigar shaped fame looking really like an alien spaceship I mean the reconstructions daily reconstructions were right out of you know sci fi. that's what the number said it had to be something long and slim like a pander a pencil. there's nothing else we ever found out there well they get me and this is all we call it like a cosmic needle it was red I guess well the the the other thing the observations indicate it was it was pink issue was reddish yeah but it was only reddish on one side. interesting well would take a break and continue the story about more more and now back to it is still a factor in a lot of what scientists are saying about the conspiracy theories in the ones are doubling down on the idea that this was not a comet nor was it an asteroid it was an interstellar object it acted very alien.
Contact: The Movie That Changed Drew Hammond's Life
"The movies adapted from the science fiction novel by The scientist Carl Sagan and tells the story of L. E. We first meet her as a little girl with her dad watching the stars and fascinated by the idea of life on other your planet's we see her playing with the radio trying to make a connection with people from outside her hometown and that curiosity that she has a little girl will eventually guide her through her work. Could we talk to the moon. Wow Big enough radio. I don't see why not can we talk to Jupiter or or what's one after that. Don't tell me give you in Hula hoops Saturn. Could we talk to Saturday. dad could be talked to mom. I don't think even the biggest radio could reach that far. Yeah people on other planets. I I don't know sparks but I guess I'd say if it is just as it seems like an awful ways to space ellie grows up to be this amazing astronomer who works for this organization that is trying to find aliens on other planets and many people don't take her work seriously other scientists give her credit for her hard work and for her intelligence and her amazing determination in her projects but it's the kind of science that is often equated with faith the kind of science. You can't prove true what I'm I'm doing you promising scientists to be wasting your gifts on this nonsense consider what could potentially be the most important discovery the human race nonsense incense okay. There's four hundred to one. There is intelligent life out there but it's so far away you'll never contacted in your lifetime Carol Disisto. Oh there's nothing out there about noble gases and carbon compounds and you're wasting your time in the meantime. You won't be published. You won't be taken seriously and your career will be over or before. It's begun so my life. That's search is one that takes l. e. directly into the path of Palmer Joss this this kind of spiritual pastor seeker played by Matthew mcconaughey elliara mutually studying all the usual Nabulsi quasars pulsars stuff like that. What are you what are you writing. The Usual Nouns adverbs added to here and there I worked on a project called city search for extraterrestrial intelligence. Wow out there l. E. is played brilliantly by the one and only jodie foster. One of my heroes and the relationship between her and Palmer is so important because it is going to kind of demonstrate and play out for us that divide divide between science and faith science and religion and it becomes the guiding light for the movie. How can you be sure that something really exists when you can't prove it Orig- book. Would you like me to quote you. Ironically the thing that people are the most hungry for meaning is the one thing that science hasn't been able to give them yeah yeah come on. It's like you're saying that science killed God. What if what if science simply revealed that he never existed in the first place the character of Palmer Joss was important for me because he inhabited this religious spiritual seeker identity but he also really understood were Elliott as a scientist came from and that was really important for high school teacher Hammond. Although he related to Ellie you know he had never seen a scientist. I figure like her before someone who would ask these hard questions of everyone around her and even of herself and the work that she did and yet but really really comfortable with the idea of mystery and unanswered questions so I want to hear the story behind when you first saw contact and this is kind of a meditative exercise that we found really useful here on the podcasts which is free to close your eyes so I'm looking at you so I know you're doing close your eyes and then for ten seconds distinct about that first time you saw the movie and then I will look at the clock and I'll interrupt you so what memories came for you then it it was the it was the summer after high school high school graduation. I think it was yeah and and about two weeks before the movie came out my long-term term crush that had a you know I wanna say it was love but it was not for sure. It was just highschool crush but for four years I had you know wanting wanting to be with her. and then towards the end of highschool. She got engaged to her youth pastor well from her church was he he he was like a good seven years older than she is right. Yes right but you know. Jesus was cool with it so I guess it was all part of the plan anyway but so I was I was crushed and I remember like I went to the wedding and and I remember thinking like Oh. Oh you know if if I if I was more of a person of faith if I was going to be somebody that could go to church this would be this could be me love me and I I I was just I was depressed and I felt so alone and and then a couple of my friends like we went to the the movie just because it was a science fiction movie had aliens in it and if you if you go back and look at the trailer it does not know it does not sell thus you knew like Carl. Sagan's work had no idea the kind of dialogue that it just looks like a cool science independence day was going to be it's been fun a fun romp and we watch the movie and and win when it was done my friends I got up and started to walk away and they were like let's get them scream and I was just sitting there bawling and I could not I could not bring myself to leave the theater for like a good ten minutes because it was just such a yeah. It was just such a profound and deeply personal experience that I don't think I've ever had in a movie like that where I felt like this movie spoke to something that I could never even put into words and I didn't know how to talk about it with anybody. I didn't feel like it was okay to talk about and what that what that movie brought up for me what I'm saying. Oh yeah definitely it's one of the things that I love the most about movies and that experience when you see one in the theater is it's you're kind of hit with the impact of the film and then you're processing it. I mean days weeks years later for sure. I went back and saw the movie again in the theater. You know maybe within the next week and finally started to figure out like Oh. This is speaking to this disconnect that I felt for the last you know whatever the the time probably eight years of being a young kid who never had a relationship with church and and was surrounded by very spiritual and religious people and always feeling like an outsider because you know it's funny. I think I had a similar experience to you watching the movie as someone who grew up actually very religious my parents are pastor eventual Christian but he's also a man. He's like a botanist and he always man of science. Yeah I think watching this movie felt in a lot of ways like seeing a lot of his own or inner conflict a lot of the things that we grew up hearing about from him but it was also the best example that I had had seen at the time of my ideal version of faith
"Hello. This is me. She yousef. And this is tell them I am. In twenty fifteen I went on a road trip from Chicago to Wisconsin. And we went like really far north. Like I think the nearest people to us were a hundred miles away, which now that I think about it was probably a dangerous situation. Anyway, it was stunning if you haven't been to Wisconsin, you're seriously missing out. So it was late summer like early fall. And as we get deeper into the night, it starts to get really chilly, kind of Chris, and in the middle of the night, I go out into the backyard of the house. We're staying and the night is so block that I had to just stand there for a second. Try to find my way. And after a while my eyes start to adjust and there's this brightness remember looking up at the sky, the stars were clear and more crowded than I had ever seen before. It was honestly like the stars where the crowd at a concert, and I was. Onset or something? And I swear I could see the curve of the sky, it was like I was wrapped in almost. It was so literally beyond my reach like forget figuratively. I felt so small in a good way. So the next morning, I'm sitting inside on the couch with my breakfast. The sun is, like, especially bright, the kind of right? That even if it's cold to kind of just warms you up. And there's the dust in the air and for a second. The sunlight, set this crowd of dust dancing. And I felt so small. My name is Vanessa all in the end. I am an astronomer. I think that is the primary way that identify myself when I, meet new people. Astronauts are on a lot of times ex military and engineers like they have survival skills versus strana mors are fabulous nerds. It's Uman to gaze up at the stars and contemplate the cosmos. There's a there's a Carl Sagan, quote, I'm probably paraphrasing at this point. It's not explaining science. Seems to me perverse, when you're in love, you want to tell the world. I grew up with my parents may data's from Pakistan. He moved to the US in the eighties. Horrible up getting. Okay. And my mom is from India, Mark from our message. Good. There. I have two sisters. We're very close knit family. We love hang out with each other like going home. It was always like the highlight of my day. My parents had this interesting parenting style, which I have started to now be more aware of I didn't have a bed time. I didn't have occurred few. I never had any like rules about how long it could stay on the computer or the or the TV or, or the phone, but it was kind of will lose things where if I wanted to do something by parents would be like that doesn't seem like such a good idea. And then I would kind of be like, oh, but I think it is. So they like, they'd say, well, go ahead, try it, and then I would try it, and it wouldn't be a good idea. And they come back like see. I feel like I'm humble Ryan about my parents really amazing people. When is engineers? I was a sophomore in college. My dad got extremely sick. So he was taking a medication for a rheumatoid arthritis treatment, the medicine was I N, H, I, E so Nisaan and it's known to be extremely toxic. We were not told that my dad was prescribed his medications, so he was told to take this six month course of I h and when he was done with the six months course than he could come back to start his Arthur treatment, well, five months in my dad's sorta getting extremely sick. I is getting very confused. And then one day he woke up and was just completely yellow like completely jaundiced. His is really his skin was yellow. And we took him to the to his primary didn't it turned out. He was having liver failure. Annan ver- when I heard that he was having liver failure. I didn't know what that meant, and I remember being scared, but not being sure why I was scared. A couple days after he started to get a lot worse. And there is one to remember it was the Saturday we were all home, and we had to do like basic errands, like grocery shopping. And we're all going to Costco, my favorite thing ever. And my dad was my dad was feed be used completely out of him. We started to get really concerned. So my mom colds, my dad's primary, who is also one of our good family friends. So he came by the evening, putting I remember who's putting on my dad's shoes for him. Like getting him ready to go to the hospital. And my dad was like kicking him in the face. And he eventually got my dad dressed enough to hospital. And like put him in the front seat of his car with a lot of struggle for my dad and drove him himself to to the hospital. NYU langone. Turned out that his liver was ninety eight percent necrosis, which means that ninety eight percent of his liver had died. It became very clear that he needed a new liver, and he needed a liver transplant.
"My name is Vanessa all in the end. I am an astronomer. I think that is the primary way that identify myself when I, meet new people. Astronauts are on a lot of times ex military and engineers like they have survival skills versus strana mors are fabulous nerds. It's Uman to gaze up at the stars and contemplate the cosmos. There's a there's a Carl Sagan, quote, I'm probably paraphrasing at this point. It's not explaining science. Seems to me perverse, when you're in love, you want to tell the world. I grew up with my parents may data's from Pakistan. He moved to the US in the eighties. Horrible up getting. Okay. And my mom is from India, Mark from our message. Good. There. I have two sisters. We're very close knit family. We love hang out with each other like going home. It was always like the highlight of my day. My parents had this interesting parenting style, which I have started to now be more aware of I didn't have a bed time. I didn't have occurred few. I never had any like rules about how long it could stay on the computer or the or the TV or, or the phone, but it was kind of will lose things where if I wanted to do something by parents would be like that doesn't seem like such a good idea. And then I would kind of be like, oh, but I think it is. So they like, they'd say, well, go ahead, try it, and then I would try it, and it wouldn't be a good idea. And they come back like see. I feel like I'm humble Ryan about my parents really amazing people. When is engineers? I was a sophomore in college. My dad got extremely sick. So he was taking a medication for a rheumatoid arthritis treatment, the medicine was I N, H, I, E so Nisaan and it's known to be extremely toxic. We were not told that my dad was prescribed his medications, so he was told to take this six month course of I h and when he was done with the six months course than he could come back to start his Arthur treatment, well, five months in my dad's sorta getting extremely sick. I is getting very confused. And then one day he woke up and was just completely yellow like completely jaundiced. His is really his skin was yellow. And we took him to the to his primary didn't it turned out. He was having liver failure. Annan ver- when I heard that he was having liver failure. I didn't know what that meant, and I remember being scared, but not being sure why I was scared. A couple days after he started to get a lot worse. And there is one to remember it was the Saturday we were all home, and we had to do like basic errands, like grocery shopping. And we're all going to Costco, my favorite thing ever. And my dad was my dad was feed be used completely out of him. We started to get really concerned. So my mom colds, my dad's primary, who is also one of our good family friends. So he came by the evening, putting I remember who's putting on my dad's shoes for him. Like getting him ready to go to the hospital. And my dad was like kicking him in the face. And he eventually got my dad dressed enough to hospital. And like put him in the front seat of his car with a lot of struggle for my dad and drove him himself to to the hospital. NYU langone. Turned out that his liver was ninety eight percent necrosis, which means that ninety eight percent of his liver had died. It became very clear that he needed a new liver, and he needed a liver transplant. I just felt like as soon as, as soon as my dad was admitted hospital and this need for a transplant became a reality things kind of just felt completely different. And a couple of days into being in the hospital he fell into a coma. Apparently before my dad's slipped into the coma. He told the head transplant surgeon. Please help me get better because I have to take care of my family. I really was not processing like what was happening. Still going to all my classes I still hanging. All my problems, that's just kind of working on this autopilot mode, where I was going about my days, doing everything that I normally would going to my classes in the mornings, and they would take the six train down to NYU Langone and spend the rest of my day. There.
"carl sagan" Discussed on H3 Podcast
"But basically, it sounds very Sifi. But I'm just troubled by the fact that it's like light travels at that speed. And I'm like, but. Well, what I've heard about that is like multi versus like different universes could have different properties. But you're saying it's possible the same universe. We have to define universal university or the reality. Every university is everything. Okay. So then what would you call a parallel different space to like what we occupy? I guess what's different properties of matter. Right. So I forget how what the diameter of our observable universe is. It's billions of light years, and it keeps getting bigger as light from further back reaches us, finally. But the way over here, there's another of the circle Jin that could also have, you know, galaxies and earth, but there are there different levels of multi level one level two different theories in one theory allows for the possibility for the laws of physics themselves to be different from one to the other. And this leads the whole question of we'll of course, the laws of physics are what they are. Because the the ones we have are conductive to things existing like us that can ask why they exist, but in a universe where I don't know energy isn't conserved the same way or something you might just not be able to get complex life forms that can ever go. Now. What's this energy thing about? So so experimenting. Discover what's going on with traveling. I'd also like to do would you if you could go on a one trip journey around the universe speed of light. Would you do it? Because if you travel the known universe at the speed of light. I remember Carl Sagan saying something like it would take you like fifty years. But by the time, you got back to earth like a billion years would have passed or something. Would you take that spaceship ride as I get older, I feel less like I would. Yeah. Because I'm not as alone. I've got a wife. We wanna have kids when I was like totally single. I'd be like. Come back in ten years of my time to an earth. That's a million years older. Yes. I'll be a celebrity now. I'm like, I kinda need to be here for the people in my life. Now by the time you get back. They may have already been like, dude, we already are scientists crazy. We already figured all this shit out. There's a name for that problem. Where like I could get start on my journey and like two seconds sin people show up there. Hey, man, like, we're already like way ahead of you. Your trip? That's one. Yeah. What's the point to? It's like you come back. You know? I mean, what good really did it? Do you right? You're probably goes to a lot of cosmic rays and radiation. You you're a living piece of history you'll come back, and they'll be like, do you? Remember this band, the beat Lewis, and you're like, it's pronounced Beatles. And they're like we never knew because no recordings exist in. You're able to be our imagine. If we had an agent gypsy could be like, here's how we built them. Like, I was there. Here's what my day to day. Life was here's an here's what might cognitive processes are like here's how I think in feel and how he described that. We'd be like. Wow, dude. But we'll probably be able to upload brains like in the next hundred years, and that whole trip will be like way more difficult to make when we can do that. We can just you know. Build a copy of my brain. And I don't die on this consciousness that lives in media Niro, signing up for Cisco picture, what is one let me say this on that topic..
"carl sagan" Discussed on Duncan Trussell Family Hour
"The the best sort of analogy, I can give. Inhuman world is if we think about things like tonal languages, right? Where you have one word. But depending on how it said it can mean very different things. God I have a feeling. It's kinda like that. Maybe I mean that seems like a good explanation for why the fuck we haven't been able to figure out what they're saying ever. Will. This is to me one something that's really curious is that. There seems to be maybe it's just, you know, publicity, or maybe people are just naturally more interested in dolphins, and they are in crows. But. I'm sure you're familiar John Lilly, and the dolphin research that was done. Not super it's pretty curious. John lilly. And I think Carl Sagan few other this is during this is the birth of SETI. And they became really interested in studying dolphin communication. Not just because they wondered like all of us wonder what dolphins are saying to each other. But also because the idea was if we do make contact with some kind of extraterrestrial, then we need a model for understanding communication from thing that is from a completely different environment. And so much of human communication is based on our, you know. The way we walk around in our terrain, and how we experience the limitations that we have. And so anyway, the I wonder why people haven't focused more on these creatures that are so obviously. Intelligent. And I d. Do you think at some point? There could be the possibility of maybe using a I like what they're using with with dolphin communication to start decoding what birds or saying what crows or saying specifically. Yes. And no, I say, yes. Because in terms of I think what you could get out of that effort. It would be well worth it and probably similar to to what you're describing. We've been able to do with dolphins. Yes. But I say no in that. I don't have any optimism that anyone could get funding to pursue that project because it's just a little too like the dolphin thing. Like, I think is a much easier sell for people in terms of understanding its value to humans, which is you know, for better or worse. So much of how we rationalize or justify scientific pursuits. And I feel like making that argument with birds and getting the kind of grant funding that you need to do that. With is just unlikely you would have to convince the military the way in is. This is what we do. By we. I mean, you or someone. We said idea what you would have to convince the military that there might be a way to talk to crows. And then you've got the ultimate surveillance technology of all time. You know, what it sad paranoid world? We would enter into have Sedley every time you see a crow you had to wonder if you are being monitored. You know, this is. If I don't know if this will make you feel better worse, but that's actually kind of happened. So no way the original facial recognition studied that. My adviser John Marcus who's that faculty number you dove did. And this was the facial recognition study that's on the PBS special murder of crows a lot of people from what I sent. This took place about ten years ago. So that study was actually funded by the DOD. No way. That is so crazy. So they were like that is to mind boggling, the military scans all variables in phenomenon nature and just puts in one side one column, here's what we might be able to use right? Yeah. Yeah. And so for that study, it was I mean, you know. Know what really we're we're thinking..
"carl sagan" Discussed on Duncan Trussell Family Hour
"You don't have to do that anymore because care of will customize vitamins according to your lifestyle. I tried it. And I really like it. They ask what you're doing man. Not in those words, but they just try to figure out where you're at. What are you looking for you got thinning hair? You want nicer skin. You stressed out? What what is who are you? This isn't just some spray clown blow in nuggets into your mouth that are supposed to make you feel better. This is an actual scientific approach to nutrition and with every vitamin they explain why it works. And what it does they literally site scientific studies that you can look at C you understand. Why the medicine is working? I don't necessarily care about that stuff. But if you're a Carl Sagan type, and you really want to know what's going in your body, Mr. eyecare about what I put in my body, then care of is perfect for you. And I really actually delight to understand why some of this stuff works. This isn't just somebody making grilled cheese sandwiches at a freaking national park festival. Telling you to lick Jen sing off of a of a stop sign in the morning to feel better. These people signed these studies have been done on these pills. Care of delicious. Nutrient packed quick stick powders can be added to your monthly delivery for an extra easy boost. Where ever you need it take some vitamins get healthy feel better take care of yourself with me..
"carl sagan" Discussed on Inside the Hive with Nick Bilton
"So is that just a we just applying something to the universe that our universe? Or is it that they work because someone not someone but something created them? Yeah. Why mean, that's that's a very good question. You can always ask why? And that's part of the things that I guess philosophers do I but scientists do second. But I'm not sure that anyone as a good explanation of how where the math came from that makes the physics possible. But that's a very valid question. Do when you kind of I mean, it is metaphysical, but I I like MS metaphysics sexually. So you've written. This is your fourteenth book, don't quote me on that. But I think it's your fourteen foot and you've written about Carl Sagan you've been. Well, you've talked to all these folks for for many, many many many years. What is the thing that is there some larger thing you're looking for the answer for or do you find all the stuff very fascinating? And that's what's drawn you to know. I I mean, the great thing about being professional authors that you can kinda write about what really interest you and this kind of really got my attention. So I figured there'd be a booking, and do you think is there any realization you came to in the process of reporting the book and writing the book that you didn't have when you set out to write it. Oh, absolutely. I mean, I certainly am inclined to believe that you know, we may have less than a thousand years left, and we better make the best of it. You know, do you think there's anything we could do if we if let's say that all the scientists in the world said, okay? This is accurate. We know that this is a reality. We. We have seven hundred sixty years left would do you think humans would actually do anything different? Well, there's a lot of people won't. But you know, there's a lot of very bright people who you know, are trying to to do something different. Certainly, John, Leslie, the philosophers one of these people saying we have this moral obligation to take this this finding and really put it to us if we can change the prior probabilities that we will survive beyond this time, we definitely should attempt to do. So Nick Bostrom is devoting his whole life to artificial intelligence because he thinks that's the most plausible doomsday threat that that is really facing us now. So yeah, this is not a cause for despair. Swifty. Look the generations later the end comes. It's not a. Yeah. I did kind of agonize about the ending of the book. How how do you do this without it being Downer? And I have what I think is a good kind of optimistic ending their and that while kind of based on this idea that that we do have the power to to realize that we, you know, we want to survive a long time if we want to have that Star Trek future, we've really got to beat the odds. So it's like saying, you know, if I want to be in the Olympics and win get that gold medal. The first thing I have to do is realize how much the odds are against me. And then I can maybe rationally decide what things would have to be done to actually achieve that goal. Do you think that one of Nick Bostrom just put out a paper recently that I read about talking about new technologies, and he he references? He he likens technologies to balls being pulled out of. An earn. And he says that the most technology we've created have been either white balls or grey bull's the white ones being Giardi for good and the gray ones having some negative impacts, for example, nuclear fusion led to the nuclear bomb drills solids and nuclear energy. That's great ball could have been a blackball hadn't lied to the end of civilization. And he argues that that eventually we are probably going to pull a black ball out of that earn two questions for you one is when you think about all of these things these technologies and the possible end of civilization. And so on what do you think is the black bowl that actually ends us? Do you think it's it's a technological thing? Do you think it's Malthusian where we run out of food is it is it? Climate change in -squitoes. I mean to. We. Burst into the hand the end of it, or what's your theory..
"carl sagan" Discussed on 77WABC Radio
"I'm John Batchelor. This is the John Batchelor show. My colleague, and friend these many years, David grins, planetary geologist, and Astro biologist and unoften. Once again, David has published a book that summarizes everything we've learned in these last decades since planetary geology became a real thing. Not a speculation. Now, we have planets we have Rovers on the surface of Mars. We're anticipating more on Mars. We're planning for Venus. But when David and I started talking after his first book, it was a treat to speculate. Now, it's here and the new book earth in human hands shaping. Our planet's future puts everything together. The David has learned these last thirty years since he left graduate school. And then everything he learned before graduate school because he was very lucky to grow up with the professor Cornell University his dad who was colleagues with Carl Sagan who is the author the progenitor of our thinking about our planet. As a creature in the midst of other planets and much to discover and much to concern ourselves with so David congratulations yearbook is fun to read. It's a compendium of ANC of anticipation of ambition and anxiety, and I want to begin with the exiled because you hold back, but you get to Saturday soon enough in the course of your telling about how astronomers planetary geologists think about their work, and we come to a list six possibilities of SETI, which is the search for extraterrestrial intelligence in the universe, passive SETI, active SETI, and then it comes to the last one you hold out till the end of the chapter, David what is fair may six and what is the anxiety among the cognoscenti people who understand astronomy, and planetary geology and the amount of world's out there. What is fair may six? Good evening to you. David. Good evening, John. Thank you very much for your comments about the book. And it's it's always a pleasure to talk with you. The Fermi paradox is sort of a short hand way of. That we used to describe their fact this perhaps strange fact that we have not yet detected or heard from any extraterrestrial intelligence now why why would I say that's a strange fact, well that was sort of fair point family being Enrico Fermi, the famous physicist who were so important in Manhattan project. One of the great physicist of the the twentieth, century and key. At Los Alamos, where where he was in fact for the Manhattan project gathered some of his colleagues at lunch one day and started discussing what he called a this paradox that if there is intelligent life out there, then some fraction of the species. Some fraction of the civilizations. Should surely have by now colonized the or visited the entire galaxy. You can sort of look at it as a physics problem and do the math that. Given the the age of the galaxy which is so many billions of years and given how long it would take for a technological civilization to sort of jump from star to star and colonize and keep traveling on even with the immensity of interstellar distances the time works out. So that in fact, if it could be done somebody should have already done it. So if there could be intelligent life. It should be obvious. This was fair miscalculation. And that's what we now. Call the Fermi paradox. Namely, where are they if if we're not alone if life and intelligent life is not unique to earth. Then then it should be obvious. According to these assumptions that fair me made. And that's that's why we call this question the Fermi paradox. And of course, there are a number of possible. Interesting answers that have been discussed including that they're there. But they're just not using. Radio. And we just don't know how to recognize them or they're not interested in talking to somebody primitive like us because they're so advanced there are a number of categories of answers that have been advanced. It's a very interesting and rich topic of conversation, but the one that you're referring to that. I do discuss in my book is the sort of unsettling possibility which I call family answer six that that the galaxy is silent because contact is very dangerous. Because. There's something out there that that that is a threat to to communicating civilizations. And so either they're silence because every young radio communicating civilization has been wiped out by something powerful and dangerous or because the civilizations out there know better than to advertise their positions because they're aware of some of this possibility that it might be danger. And this became a debate in the SETI community early on because there were those who wanted to switch to active SETI in other words to send a message and not just to listen, David because we're going to come back to this. I don't want to go any farther. I just wanted to alert everybody that there is the possibility that the search for life also includes the search for something we don't wanna find. I just want to a park that there because it's a thrilling moment in your book. It was not why you became a planetary geologist. You became a planetary geologist back at Cornell University where your father, Lester, Lester, grins spoon was a teacher of psychiatry, and he was colleagues with Carl Sagan an astronomer, and you from very early on were in this community of thinkers about life here and life on other planets in that transformation from you. And it's in the book in that transformation. Did you know did you understand as a teenager or just before you went off to higher higher education that you were that you were swimming in a privileged group that you are surrounded by not science fiction, but science thinkers, did you understand that? Well, I mean, I guess we're all we all sort of acclimate to the conditions of our youth. And and it seems normal even when it's not the environments we grow up in. So I guess at some point I came to appreciate how unusual it was. And maybe that point was when Carl Carl Sagan started showing up on television because you know, when I was a kid. He was just ankle Carl. He was this this cool guy who was my dad's best friend who was an astronomer who had come around the house and tell us great stories, and, you know, take us to go look through the telescope. And so I that was thrilling to me, but it wasn't thrilling because he was famous guy. It was just throwing because what he was talking about was really interesting to me. But then I guess at some point. And maybe it was you know, when he started showing up on the Johnny Carson show, and then later on cosmos that you realize oh, this is rather extrordinary. Yes. You do. You just start to realize that you're you're quite privileged in that sense. And then you decided to become not only an undergraduate, but a graduate astronomer and you wind up at university of Arizona in the early eighties. And after having grown up with Carl Sagan, your then plunged into an environment informed by Koiper, and by Lovelock who are they David? And what what contribution? Do they make to are thinking about life in the universe? What's your art Koiper is a kind of the father of planetary science? In this country really in in the world. He was a Dutch astronomer go out, then a Dutch American stronger who founded the lunar and planetary institute in Arizona, which at that time was sort of an exotic thing for for astronomers to go out and out there in the desert in Tucson and format institute of planetary studies. But that was because that's where the skies are clear and the big mountains are and their big observatories are down there and planetary science. Then was sort of an aberration. It was it was an offshoot of astronomy. Astronomers weren't really that interested in studying the planet. But then with the advent of the space age in the nineteen sixties and the ability to start sending spacecraft to other planets. There was the need for a new field, and it was sort of a hybrid of astronomy and geology. Using the techniques of earth science to study the other planets because suddenly the Panish weren't just these points of light and telescopes. They were these worlds that we could see up close with spacecraft. And so you needed the techniques of people that think about rocks, and geology and weather system. So so you really needed a hybrid of earth science and space science, and that was the birth of planetary science rod locker who was Lovelock what significance and Lovelock was a British tinkerer inventor maverick chemist who started thinking about extraterrestrial life. And he he was hired by NASA to help think about how to how how they should search for life on Mars with the first Landers and Lovelock came up with an answer that Nassar didn't really like. But then ended up being very profound. He said, you don't really need a Lander to search for life on Mars just look at the atmosphere because life he started studying the way that life interacts with the planet's atmosphere. That led to the guy a hypothesis, this strange notion that life is so deeply part of a planet that it will radically change the atmosphere, which of course, is what life does on earth. And by thinking about how to find life on Mars Lovelock with his colleague colleague, a Lynn Margulis came up with this guy hypothesis which was a profound insight into the role that life place on our home planet. Let's go to the changes that we can calibrate on planet earth and thinking about these are other planets, also David Grenz bone is author of earth and human hands shaping our planet's future. He's a planetary geologist and Ostra biologists and astronomer. I'm John Batchelor. This is the John Batchelor show. This corporate pro Rosenberg here have you considered Mazda. The Japanese premium brand US news and World Report to the two thousand eighteen best brand they build some of those technological SUV's, of course, overs available today. One reason sky, active technology, more power and performance out of their engines, one of the best places to test drive, the Mazda c x five or Mazda.
"carl sagan" Discussed on Talk Nerdy
"And what rate and then you turn to the positive people like whoever bell Nyein, Carl Sagan, many, many other names we throw around Bill. Bryson's books are incredible. They were being, you know, and, you know, at end lately, Volusia psychology sort of blows my mind. I mean, I went down the rabbit hole of hard determine them genetic determinism, you know, whether or not free Willie this and all of that. And it's just it's fascinating stuff on. It's it's just amazing. So that's basically my story. Can't I gotta say I'm right there with you, my friend like the same things that fascinate you really do fascinate me. And I've just had such an incredible time talking to you about you know, how all of these inputs all of these experiences within your life really lead you to what you do. And where you are right now, and the incredible gift that you are giving back by producing these really whimsical, really beautiful and actually quite brilliant pieces of children's literature. So I really do recommend that everybody who's listening who has a kid near life. You may not be apparent. I'm not, but you might have nieces you might have nephews you may have a local library that you can donate these books too. You know, there's a lot of ways that you can give back to a child who you think could really benefit from these stories. So I highly recommend that you go online, and you per. Just your copies of the Annabelle in Aden series, their four books like we mentioned JR before we go. Can you can you stick around just a few more minutes? So that we can. So that I can ask you my closing two questions. All right. Well, you mentioned before that you were listening to an episode. I think with ano- Ross trial. So you probably know what's coming. Here we go. When you think about the future, I want you to tell me, I what is the thing that keeps you up the most at night thing that you are maybe maybe doesn't mystic about. But on the flip side of that. What do you have, you know, true genuine real optimism for euro? So it was I was trying to think about this. You know, lately, I think I'm less positive and a little more pessimistic, unfortunately, but the positivity I'll get to in a minute. So hopefully, it will win the day. But yet just I think I'm what keeps me up at night is false certainty. People feel like they know they know all they need to know from their one book or their ten books or their political bubble or their, you know, their social media bubble. I wish the world had more humility and more willingness to to learn that maybe you're wrong. Tim mention says, you know, be, you know, people are like asshole. Or what has it have what do people and opinions having con what do people on Astles having common? Everybody has one and they should both be early examined. Every now. You know, take your opinions out and beat them with the stick. And I wish the world did more of that and one I'm positive about as you know, I see the false certainty in the world. And I'm you know, I'm on the battle lines a lot. So it it could bring me down. But I'm you know, like a week ago. I did an event at an ethical culture society, and every time I meet my readers, whether it's ethical culture society a humanist association. Whatever it is or even just in a bookstore. I'm inspired by the parents and the kids that that come and I see what kind of people they are. And the amazing questions that my my readers ask in the amazing messages. I get about little kids learning about evolution. Or how learning about the first law of thermodynamics means that when they died in a sense never their energy will live on forever. Little things like that with people on really hidden. Spires the hell outta me. So sometimes I'll get down in negative reading the negative news about our politicians. Are are, you know, the Wu that surrounds us? But then when I read read or meet, the people that you know, that are seeking out knowledge from books like mine or or other people's books or podcast like this one. I get really really really inspired by the questions they asked. Well, what a great great note to end the episode on JR. It's so much fun..
"carl sagan" Discussed on Talk Nerdy
"And she was just I could tell like offended or almost annoyed that I kept offering rational responses instead of just saying, oh, yeah. Or maybe they had a past life, and it was such an interesting exchange because I could see her frustration. And I could see her in even she would say things like, oh, you know. I just feel like you're really close minded or you're really just looking for any excuse. And it was frustrating for me because I felt like what she was saying to me was oh, you're no fun. You don't want these kids to be experiencing this fabulous thing. And it's like, no, I don't want you to reinforce to them that they have magic. You know, we care about children the minds and the world and. You know? That's why I think a lot of people debate whether or not, you know, astrology as real faith healers or God or angels. Whatever it is. But I think it's not it's often not a debate over whether or not that thing is real. It's a debate over whether or not faith is a virtue. And that's why I think me missive stop, you know, before even arguing about that. Because you know, people are tribal they have their positions. They're just gonna keep arguing back and forth. I think it's important to talk about is it good for our minds and is a good for the world to believe beyond the evidence. You know, we are moving beyond the evidence we have to be as you know, as scientists. But to actually believe beyond the evidence. I just keep thinking through our talk about Carl Sagan, and he you know, when I wrote the second book of the things we believed I had not yet read Carl Sagan or the demon haunted world and a year later when I read it or maybe six months later. I was like, wow. This is kind of like those soundtrack of my second book. I didn't even know it and I love how Carl Sagan's the demon haunted world, he he is on a plane ride. He relates the story and someone sitting next to him when they find out he's a scientists. They ask him whether or not the the underwater city, Atlantis is real and Carl Sagan says, you know, probably not we don't have any evidence of it. And the guy looked so disappointed and Carl Sagan writes in the book. You know, did the skying know about the molecular building blocks of life sitting out there in the cold tenuous gas between the stars had. He heard of the footprints of our ancestors found in four million year-old volcanic ash, and you know, all these amazing things in science. It's like we could have that all amazement. We don't need to you know, damage our minds, and and engage in fleeting fantasies to to be amazed. So that's you know, that's something that came to my mind. Absolutely. And so I think now is a good a good time to kind of switch gears and talk a little bit about about the third book that you row, and I have to admit I'm really excited to talk about the final say final. But the most recent book that's been published. So so we'll get there. I promise hold your horses guys. But before that, let's talk about worlds within us. What what does that refer to? You know, this'll sound very Cosmo's -i, but a lot of scientists and science communicator say the number one most inspiring thing about science is that we are literally made of the gas and the dust that was created by that was star star stuff. It's a cute sang and people think it's just kind of an allegory or an exaggeration. But it's not an exaggeration. So worlds within us his kind of saying that we have worlds within us. We have the world. We are the world. You know, we are the world gazing at itself, we are made of our world. We are made of the stardust that was formed after the big bang it formed planets like the earth the book explains than from the earth came us. So we are made of stardust were made Anna kind of use that as a vehicle as I do all my books to bring..
"carl sagan" Discussed on Science... sort of
"It would be a hell of a coincidence. If we were the first ones on the scene, right? It's the Carl Sagan, quote, it'd be a hell of a waste space. So it makes. I'm not sure. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, that's what makes planetary geology. So fascinating is that Mars Venus? Those are even mercury to certain extent, those are potential alter earth's. You know, if you rewind the clock back to four billion years ago, any one of the, you know, Mars Maistre the best chance, you know. Even it looks like the moons of Jupiter and Saturn are also great candidates to. We're look at our kids. And we see these extreme environments that they can live in an environment probably very similar to early earth. It strains credulity there wouldn't be out there. And I thought about that while I was reading your book because you do talk about the alienness of whales, and I had this image in my head of like what have we went to another planet, and there wasn't eligible life. But we just like gave them we didn't think of them as intelligence or out there trying to tag them, and they're trying to be like, what are you doing? We've me alone. I think there's a bunch of scifi novels that are like this that have made this argument that silicon based life is probably it's probably the best that's the kind of alien life. We might most likely encounter, you know. And that's that does change things dramatically not biological life. But we've emitted electromagnetic radiation for the contact thing. You know, if you hundred years that's fear is now past outside of our solar system. So we've already been sending out and it's not just. Yeah. We're noisy neighbors. So. Is other life thinking that we're tasty. Or are. We just not worth it. Are they even you know, or like it goes it cuts the other direction, which is life may not survive long enough to leave a trace. Right. And so the lung jeopardy of these civilizations as the outgrowth of life. We might be surrounded, but just too far apart to have a conversation to have that conversation or to know about it, maybe a ghost universe. So. Yeah, this is pretty dark out there. Right. I mean, this whole story voyagers fascinating. Because it was largely. I think there's one person in the sixties who realized what is it called the great tour because the alignment of the planets was only going to be like that at that time in late twentieth century and not again for two hundred fifty years. So there's this moment to make the case to the Nixon administration that this is what we had to do. And it was signed off on. And we did it, you know, and it's really technically hard. I mean, the the crazy success that NASA has to sending out these probes makes it seem kind of expected and routine. You know, like getting the images about Pluto. It's like, yeah. That's great. I mean, I think you can't spike the football hard enough. You know, in that way that we know something about that. And it's not just kind of our way it is. So far away you go down to aerospace museum and actually walk out the relative portions of Pluto, I wanna go. I wanna do road trip to Sweden where you could Sweden has the largest scale model. The solar system. Can that you start like you start like near stock home in at the sun. And then you have to drive and you're in the Arctic circle by the time. You're in the. Pluto and stuff..