20 Burst results for "Cardwell"
Game of Crimes
"cardwell" Discussed on Game of Crimes
"Well, first of all, this is us saluting you, Trooper. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. And I join in that, brother. And my salute to both of you. You guys have had storied careers also. All I did was save the world. Murph caught, Murph goes down to Columbia and Pablo turns himself in. That's his claim to fame. What else did you need? What can I do for you? Yeah, exactly. You still got your campaign hat. You still put it on every now and then, look at the mirror and go, you one badass son of a bitch. I still have my campaign hat and I do occasionally put it on. That's for sure. Yeah. Yeah, I do. But yeah, it's, it's a lot of fun, you know, but it's been a great career. It really has. And, you know, I still want to do this several more years. I'm 59 and, you know, Haida is a great place to be. You know, it's, we kind of refer to it as Switzerland. We could work with everybody and that's the best part. I'm a big relationship builder and guy. I just believe in it and information sharing. So I did this throughout my whole career. And so to be able to actually get paid to do it now, it's like, man, you know, it's like you're paying me to do this. Well, hell yeah. Yeah, exactly. And so to be able to come to work and get paid to do this, it's right up my alley. So, but yeah, it's a lot of good work being done. And, you know, a lot of credit goes to Steve. You know, again, he's, he's top shelf in my books. So I appreciate you very much. I feel the same. Yeah. All right. Well, keep up the good work. We're going to come back to you for more stories. We want to see what's going on. You too. Don't go anywhere. Everybody else stay tuned for the debrief. I'll tell you the most polite man, you know, and this is a guy we don't really have people will drop a few, you know, F bombs or, you know, or say a couple of things. He went out. He is the most polite gentleman I have met in a long time. He was like that when I first met him and he still is. He even called me after we finished the interview. Was yesterday, right? He called me last night and believe it or not, this man is six foot four. He's one of those guys that he is so nice. You never want to take him off because I've seen him get upset with people and it's not a pretty sight. And he called last night and he said, I was so nervous. That's the first podcast interview he's ever done, believe it or not. I mean, with all his experience and the calls they do on a regular basis with his job. And he said, do you think I did all right? I said, Tim, just wait, man. You're going to get all kinds of good reviews on this. People are going to love you. And there were stories that we didn't even get to tell. We have so many guests. We have to go back and do two or three episodes because like with Tim, I mean, just the story. It was good. We got to the story about the guy taking away his gun because that's real life. And had it not been for his dog, bad shit would have happened to him out there on the side of the road. Yeah. And here's one of the stories I didn't tell you either. Lobo, his dog. When Tim retired, the dog retired with him, became a house dog and somebody stole him out of the yard. Oh, my God. I don't know how you do that because he was also an attack dog, not just a drug dog. He was an attack dog as well. But either that or they killed him and took him. But he lost Lobo. Damn, I know. Well, we're going to find, I'll tell you what, personal mission, we're going to find out who the hell did that. Yeah, I tell you what, I wouldn't want Mr. Tim Cardwell coming after me. He's going to be nice, but he's going to punch you on the top of the head and make you about three feet shorter. So he's just outstanding. Just an outstanding police officer, outstanding individual. I mean, just a good, good guy. And you could tell too. So, but anyway, if you guys like that, head on over to Apple Spotify, hit those five stars for us. Remember, Stitcher's gone away. Google's gone away. So get on a platform that will be there forever. I don't know which one that'll be, but it's definitely not going to be those two. So hit those five stars. Head on over to Game of Crimes podcast.com for more information about the show. We'll be updating it on a regular basis. We got a guest coming out. The episode following this gentleman has a book, so that's going to be listed there. Follow us on that thing called social media at Game of Crimes on Twitter. Game of Crimes podcast on Facebook and the Instagram. Also, our mafia queen, Sandy Salvato, who rules with an iron fist and a velvet glove. Get on over, just put in Game of Crimes fans on Facebook, answer a couple of questions, and be admitted to the inner sanctum. And you two will enjoy all the benefits that come hitherto and therefore forthwith with all of that stuff. I was wondering how more of those big words you was going to throw in there. If you want a good laugh, go to that website, man. The fans in there are always putting funny stuff on there. Oh yeah. They're dogging us too. So every now and then I get shit about Notre Dame. You know, we're going to have to have a day. There will be a day of reckoning, people. There will be a day of reckoning. Oh, did you see West Virginia play Houston last night? No. Oh, they were ahead, going three seconds left in the game. We're ahead by three or four points, I think. And Houston threw a Hail Mary and got it. We lost by three. And that was the coach in Houston is the former West Virginia coach. Dana Holgerson. He knew where you were weak. Couldn't finish. Yeah. I went to bed with tears in my eyes last night. Come on, Mountaineers. Come on, ears. All right. Well, game days will be Saturday. We'll see how the Irish do in honor of Frederick Nicolosi. You know, go Tigers, whatever the hell. Go Tigers. All right. Go, go Cajon Tigers. Anyway, guys, so just have some fun. Also, hey, make sure you go visit us at Game of Crimes. No, well, that too. But visit us at patreon.com slash Game of Crimes. We got a lot of good stuff coming out. A lot of content. We put more content out on Patreon than we do in our free podcast. So join us there for You Can't Make This Shit Up 911. We do Q &A. We do the Narcometer review. We've got case of the month. So we've got all sorts of good stuff for you to enjoy. Patreon.com slash Game of Crimes. So, you know, Murph, you know, just has been another exciting episode. Don't you think? Absolutely. You know, we get a lot of comments from, especially from law enforcement friends. It's like, you know, you guys, that podcast, you have the best guests on there. And it's because of our listeners. You know, as long as you guys support us, we can continue to get these kind of guests. So we're honored to have every single one of them on there. And we've got a couple of special ones coming up here soon. Yes, we do. And you're working on it. We got, we're narrowing it down. So guys, we've got some special stuff, but guess what? Thank you guys, once again, episode 120 for playing the biggest, baddest, most dangerous and North Carolina friendly game of all, the Game of Crimes. Thank you.
Game of Crimes
"cardwell" Discussed on Game of Crimes
"And, but there was a few agents there that really didn't respond to our request in a way in which we had hoped. And when Steve came, he, you know, new guy, obviously, we want to give him a try. And I'm here to tell you, he responded with energy, with enthusiasm, and he went well above and beyond, not what we had traditionally encountered. And so he quickly became a fan favorite of ours. And then, you know, we recognized the hillbilly accent being from West Virginia. That's where my part of my family has migrated from was West Virginia. And anyway, long and short of it is, you know, he connected with us. He was very energetic, as I said. And so we grew a tremendous relationship with him, invited him in, you know, doing the cookouts and so forth. So whenever he called us, we were quick to respond. And so to this particular incident, when he asked us to help, obviously, we want to do the best we can. And so what he's not telling you was from where Mayberry Mall was to the state line was a distance of about a mile, if that much. Mile, mile, maybe a mile and a half. You got to be challenged. Yeah, mile to a mile and a half. Maybe. And so we needed, you know, every each of that. So I'm sitting there waiting. And he says, hey, it's on the way. And he gave me a description. So, you know, this was a US highway, four lane. But it was coming off of a two lane coming down the mountain. And so when it crosses the state line, I'm sitting there. And I tried to make myself as visual as possible. So when a guy sees us, he slows down. And he sees me, you know, pulling across the median. And he's watching us so close. What he does is he runs off the shoulder of the road, about half of his vehicle. Oh, you're to maintain length. There you go. That's all I need. You know, I think he may be impaired. So I was able to get him stopped pretty quick. And of course, the cavalry come in, you know, all my co-workers. And, you know, we always worked very well together. Wait a minute, you waited for backup this time before you searched the vehicle? Yeah, well, I approached him, but backup was very close by, trust me. And so anyway, we were able to, you know, to proceed and get the weed and get him incarcerated. So, you know, but again, you know, going back to Murph, he was really good to work with. And whatever he needed us to do, we were going to try to help out as best as possible. So it was a successful case where we were able to help him because he helped us a number of times. And, you know, so you mentioned Danville, Virginia, a while ago, Morgan. So we just let this case ride for about three months. Didn't call anybody, just let things calm down. And the bad guys were so desperate to make money. They called me back. Now they already lost 400 pounds of weed back then. The price was, I don't know, probably $1,200 a pound, something like that. Yeah. And they're like, listen, you know, we got another load that we want to do with you if you're still interested in buying it. And I said, yeah, well, absolutely. I mean, I didn't get arrested. So I guess you guys aren't the snitches. They said, we're not going back to my own area. That's where they live. So we're going to go up Virginia. So I thought we were going to Danville. We ended up in Martinsville, up where the Speedway is. Yeah, which is just north of where I lived. And back then we called in, remember Charlie Wayne Moore? Yes. From Virginia State Police. He was with their criminal investigation bureau up there at Virginia State Police. And he's, I sound like I'm from New York compared to Charlie. Some of them Southern Virginia boys, that accident. It's a different one too. I knew a guy from the state police called Mike Monroe. First time I ran into him at training, it's like, where are you from? I'm from Richmond, sir. You know, just the way they would do it. Totally different than North Carolina. I mean, that's how desperate these people are. They make stupid decisions. We're able to capitalize on that. But the whole point of this is two things I want to point out. One is that's what teamwork's all about. You know, at that time we had five agents to cover. I think it was 24 counties or 26 counties, something like that in the middle district of North Carolina. You had to reply, you know, rely on the state and local officers there, which was fantastic. You know, the fact that I was a local officer, that broke down a lot of barriers coming in as a fed. And, you know, just like you and I say, Morgan, you can't have thin skin and they're going to bust your chops. I know we did. I took nice shots when I could, and I still do on these podcasts. But the other point I want to make is the reason there's so many people from West Virginia that live in North Carolina is because that's as far as a tank of gas will get you. That's a lot of truth to that. There's no joke. That's how my family ended up here. They ran out of money. We'll just stay here, Gomer. Hey, now I got to tell you, now, obviously Mount Airy, you know, we talk about Mayberry RFT. And I'll tell you, one of the best shows I think ever on TV, because Andy Griffith gave out some of the best parenting advice to Opie, you know, Richie Cunningham. But was, I don't want to say was it a stereotype, but did you actually have a few guys like that, like Barney and Andy in some of your areas there? When you go to some of the more rural areas, not to that level, but there was always a reference to that. And one of the things that one of my training folks told me says, hey, use it to your advantage, you know, use the good old boy approach and charm and make them think, you know, that you don't know what's going on. And we did, and it was very successful. But, you know, in some of the more rural places, you know, you had some that were probably lesser trained than others. And did you ever run into a guy that carried his bullet in his pocket? No, I don't think I recounted that. I don't think I did. Hey, look, I'm from Kansas. You wouldn't believe the crap I did. Hey, did you date Dorothy? You know, you know, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, let me ask you guys a question. Can I pause just for one minute for a restroom break, if that's okay? No, it's not allowed, man. Suck it up, trooper. Well, Tim feels better. And if Tim feels better, we feel better. Absolutely right. Take care of our guests. What did I tell you earlier? At our age, our guys, we got to pee all the time. Hey, they just catching up with me. Trust me. So, you know, and like I said, we don't want to give short shrift to stuff, but I mean, there's so many more stories. And it's like with so many people, we've got to, you know, we'll have to revisit this. But let's do a couple minutes on what you're doing now, because what I think you're doing now is very important, you know, and then we'll bring it to a close. But how many years did you have on the state patrol when you decided it was time to file your paper? I did 25 years with the state. And so when I retire, I go back, excuse me, what I had mentioned earlier about when I started. Just one, you know, the same month that I turned 18. All that time counted. I was at the city for about two years and eight months before I went with the state. And so with accumulated sick leave and going back and being able to use that time, I was able to apply to get a full retirement at 46 years old with 30 years and two months of credible service. Wow. Yeah. But you didn't leave law enforcement, did you? No, no. I stayed out about four months when I retired and then went to work for the sheriff, which had later became the sheriff in the county that I was the first assigned in Randolph County. And he told me, he came to my retirement lunch and he said, if you don't have any plans, let me know. He said, I got a job for you. And at the time I had, you know, through my career, I had been doing a lot of interdiction teaching, and I thought I might go in that direction. But this was an opportunity that came up. He offered in the DEA rack in Greensboro at the time, Wally Serniak. He had expressed interest in, you know, me coming to work there. I had started a freight interdiction program towards the last part of my career. And he expressed interest in, you know, having some involvement with that. And so that's what I did. Stayed out four months, went to work. Sheriff's department was assigned to DEA in Greensboro and worked there for about four and a half years as a task force. I got to tell you, I was a kid in a candy store at that time. I was pretending to be Steve Murphy Jr. And I'm just here to tell you, you know, through my career, you know, I was always impressed with the DEA folks as well as the, you know, the ICE, HSI folks. But Steve was one of my heroes. And I mean that sincerely. I just always looked at him, you know, as a success story. And I thought, you know, I'd like to experience what he gets to experience on that side of it because I'd done the interdiction uniform side, but I hadn't got to do the other side of it. And so, you know, coming out of uniform, clean-shaven, no facial hair, you know, clean-cut, uniform. First thing I did was grow a beard, wear blue jeans and a t-shirt, and drive a Cadillac. And I was a kid in a candy store. Hell, there you are. Junior DEA agent right there, man. I was, yes. You know, the problem was he was addicted to cocaine just in a different way. I'm telling you. But, you know, that was a really fun part, you know, after retiring and getting to go do that. So I did that about four and a half years. And then that led me into private industry through some of the freight contacts I had developed in the freight industry doing freight interdiction. And I went to work as a security investigator for one of the national carriers. Did that for a couple of years. And then six years ago, that led me to this position that I serve in now. So which is, can you say what it is? Well, you're clean-shaven and dressed up, so it's got to be something reputable. Well, it is. So I now work for HIDTA, High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area. You guys are familiar with that. Well, HIDTA years ago had started a national initiative called Domestic Highway Enforcement. And it's known throughout our law enforcement community as DHE. And the gist of it is it's an information gathering and sharing program. We have a platform where we have a network of officers, analysts, investigators from coast to coast at state, local, and federal level. We communicate with them on a regular basis. And the cool part to it is some of the folks involved, the people that I met back in the late 80s and early 90s, are involved in some capacity to include some of your co-workers at Kansas HP. BK Smith, Kirk Simone. I know Kirk. Yeah, he was one of the most effective people. He took the interdiction program to a new level with KHP. Yes. Well, he's still involved in an asset forfeiture level, being retired now. Knowing those guys through the years, and there was many others. Like I said, I came in on the second wave of generation for interdiction guys. And so through that teaching, I was able to grow the network at the different levels to the third and what I call fourth generation. And so I get to communicate with all those old folks like me, to the young guys, to the one- and two-year, five-year guys now. And being able to be involved and communicate with them through this common topic of interdiction is really cool. So that's what we do. I have a colleague, Mike Snyder. He and I met as young troopers in the early 90s teaching interdiction. He was one of their top getters at the Illinois State Police. And he's my colleague. He's a national coordinator, and I'm the deputy national coordinator. But he rose to the rank of colonel. And so he's got a really storied career, really wonderful leader I enjoy working with. Very intelligent guy. He leads our effort. This national initiative, it's about gathering information and sharing it with interdiction guys nationwide. We have what we call swaths of interstate that we title corridors. And we host about 75 to 80 calls a year just talking about interdiction tactics, trends, concealments. And we get to do it at the national level. And it's a really fun job to be able to do that. We do other things, but that's our primary foundation. And I was on a call for about an hour and 20 minutes just before coming on with this one. We did the Interstate 10, 20, 40 corridor. And we had the U.S. drug czar as a guest speaker on ours. Heidi was situated under the Office of National Drug Control Policy. And so the presidential appointed drug czar is obviously the primary boss of it. And so he was a guest speaker on ours today. And once he spoke to the group, we had about 115 on a call. We then had a number of troopers and investigators and officers coast to coast talk about seizures and what they're seeing trend-wise. So that's fun. And it's a good way to kind of see the other side of the career as I work towards retirement years. Well, here's the thing is with you, you've got the credibility. You went out there and did it. So when you speak, you carry so much more authority because these guys know, hey, this dude's been out there. You know, he damn near got himself shot on the side of the highway out there. And it just gives it so much more importance and impact to have somebody that's been there and done that than maybe have an academic come in and say, well, this is what you need to do. But they've never pulled a car over in their life. Yeah, the one-week wonders. They go out to one training course. They come back and all of a sudden they're the experts. It's like, yeah, right. Okay. And so, you know, to echo what Steve says, you know, that's the folks that we communicate with. They are doing it real time. You know, it's so funny. I get some mileage out of it, but, you know, haven't taught any courses since I started this job. But what I've found on the backside of my career is a lot of these guys that I was teaching courses to, to the guys that are having success today, they had just been born when I started this. Oh, gee. And, you know, it really kind of highlights, you know, the age, but it also highlights something that has a lot of meaning. That is how long I've been doing this and being involved. And, you know, it's really fulfilling to be able to do this, you know, just to be able to still communicate. And we highlight to the leaders, you know, the HIDTA directors and the ONDCP representatives to include the drugs are what good work is being done out on highways by these young guys and, you know, middle-aged guys, because they're doing some awesome work. You know, the amount of fentanyl and cocaine that they're taking off on some of these stops is just unbelievable. And, you know, it's we could, we could, I said we should do, we should think about, we should just do a whole thing about, you know, the trends or what we've seen changing, because obviously fentanyl has, is a game changer, you know, in so many different ways.
Game of Crimes
"cardwell" Discussed on Game of Crimes
"And what did you do? Searched a car by myself. And so, you know, you become immune to the obvious. All I can imagine is your training officer's hand outside the door going, hoo, hoo, hoo. Exactly. So it was definitely something I don't want to repeat again. And I'm sorry, we're running out of time here. Tim, we want to be respectful of your time, but Tim and I got to work so many cases together there and just got to be such close friends and families got to be close. Excuse me, going to cookouts. Our listeners, our regular listeners, have heard us talk about it before, Morgan, where you become friends in law enforcement, you're friends for life. Tim and I, we probably talk maybe every four to six months, just catch up a few minutes, and then we'll bump into each other occasionally at conferences and things like that. But just quickly, we got to talk about the North Carolina thing, and we'll just do the Reader's Digest version. It was my last job as an undercover agent trying to buy weed off of these two West Virginia hillbillies that were living in Mount Airy, which everybody calls Mayberry. Yes. And we'd been through a lot of undercover meetings. It was two brothers. One was acting kind of decent. The other just act real squirrely. He was the danger guy. And so when we finally got it set up, we had an informant. They were going to deliver, I think it was 400 pounds of weed. Does this involve Kevin Black? No, no. Well, if we needed somebody to crap his pants, we'd call Kevin. We didn't on this job. You know, we put a hidden camera on a U-Haul truck. Our informant went up with the bad guys on the Blue Ridge Parkway into Virginia, picked up the load. Now I called Tim, and this was obvious just before we did a deal. And I said, here's the scenario. I'm at the Mayberry Mall. They're going to come across the state line on this road from Virginia. You got from the state line to the Mayberry Mall to develop PC for a traffic stop, seize that dope, because we want this case to continue. And you know what he did? He developed PC and stopped the truck before it got to me, seized the dope. Squirrely guy comes screaming in the parking lot, oh, the cops just got the dope, just got the dope, you know? And they're all looked at me, and I'm just cussing them out. Like, you guys set me up. What are you, as a snitch? And I had the boss's Cadillac. You remember that old Cadillac? Yes. Was that John Linton maybe had back then? Yes, it was. And I hit the gas when I spun out of the parking lot, and I drove all the way back to Greensboro, which is about an hour drive. But that's the professionalism of these guys. You know, they know what they're doing. You're in a slick top car on top of that, which means there were no lights on top of it. I think you had markings on the sides, right? Yes, we did. But, you know, I mean, if you want to expand on how you did that, I'm in awe of what you did that day. Well, so, you know, I got to give a shout out to Murph. When he came to Greensboro, it's at a time when our relationship with the DEA was growing.
Game of Crimes
"cardwell" Discussed on Game of Crimes
"Yeah, and so anyway, they were able to, we were able to get them incarcerated. And the whole rest of the story to it was they had went to New Orleans. The marijuana had been brought in on a ship at the port. And the guy who was driving was a diver. And he had went down. They had containers welded to the bottom of the ships. And he had went down and retrieved some of these packages and then was taken some back along with the other guy. And the one that was the primary aggressor, he was part, he had been identified as part of a Jamaican posse. And he was the enforcer for that group. And the guy who cooperated turned evidence against him, testified, said he had, he had done quite a bit of successful enforcements for the group that he was affiliated with. And so, but we were able to get it into a federal court and prosecute him. So yeah, it had a good ending to it, thank goodness. So did the rat bastard, they ended up giving him some decent amount of time? Yeah, he got good amount of time and it actually made federal case law at the time. When you use a weapon in the commission of a felony, it's a federal offense when you use a gun. Well, he didn't have a gun on him at the time, but when he was able to gain control of my gun. He had constructive possession of a firearm at that point. Yes, and so it actually made case law. And not the way you want to make case law, but there were some great lessons from that. Which of course, when I later got into teaching, that was one of my primary teaching points was never search a vehicle by yourself. Did you search a vehicle by yourself after that? No, no, I cut people loose before I would do that. So it was a moment that... It's not worth a good guy getting hurt over a bunch of dope. Yeah, there's no amount of dope that's worth you taking a bullet. Yeah, and that's why it was so important for me to set the stage leading up to that, because it was a mentality behind it. I was having good success and I was able to handle most situations by myself if I didn't have backup. And so you kind of become immune to your good officer safety skills. And so it was a quick reminder that fortunately I was able to survive. Well, you know, you're putting on that... And I was guilty of it too. You put on that trooper uniform, you think you're 10 feet tall and bulletproof. It's like, and then you have one of those days where it's like, yeah, I don't think I am. Exactly. A really scary dose of reality. But yeah, fortunately it was a positive outcome from it. But that was a time period where I was really learning my craft, so to speak, and having a lot of good teachers, instructors that set really good examples for me, helped me get to that point. And the thing about it was, every one of them had told me, don't ever search a car by yourself.
Game of Crimes
"cardwell" Discussed on Game of Crimes
"And so it was a lot of lessons in this, but anyway, I'm sorry, the driver was the one that the vehicles were in the name of. The passenger, his name was not on anywhere, but he was the one that I assessed. If I'm going to have problems, he's the one I need to secure first. Because I had been in some scrapes before and done this where I was able to come out of it on the right side of it. And one more quick question. I remember it took years before we got our first handheld radios because we had to do everything on the outside speaker. Were you equipped at that time? Did you have your own handheld radio? We had one, but I didn't have it on me. It was in the car. So again, this goes back in the old days of patrol, you know, the culture. And we really advanced a lot from then. But so one set of cuffs, no walkie-talkie. I go to arrest him and he decides he wants to not cooperate. And when I go hands-on and so we get into a struggle and the other guy, he jumps up and he jumps into the struggle. So now I've got both of them that I'm tussling with. And so we just commenced to swinging at each other. And so I got to set the stage. My dog, he was in a car and he was barking and had a way for him to get out of the car if I was needed. And he was trained to respond when he saw aggression. So was he not just narcotics, but also patrol? Yes, he was patrol and narcotics. So he was trained to provide protection. So here I am tussling with these two guys and I recognize I've got to get this under control quick or this is going to go really bad. And I remember swinging to hit the guy that I thought was the most danger to me. And when I did, I swung so hard. I hit him, but it swam me so hard that my gun side swung around to him. And he kind of took his shoulder and pinned it up under my armpit. And he come out with my gun in no time at all. And when I recognized that, I thought, oh, this ain't good. And I hollered for a dog. His name was Lobo. I hollered for him. I gave him the command to come and respond. And I realized I've got to separate myself from here because this guy had full control of my gun and the other guy backed off. And so I started backing up, trying to get some distance. And the dog came up. And as this guy was bringing the gun up towards me to shoot, he had accidentally ejected the magazine, which that was one of the benefits of transitioning. At that time, you had that extra layer of protection with the safety switch. So he didn't hit the safety switch. He first hit the magazine eject. So that was just a little bit of short timeframe there that allowed me to get a little bit more space. And what kind of weapon was that? What were you carrying? Beretta 9 millimeter. And I don't recall on the Beretta. I've got a Beretta Model 96, but it's a .40 caliber. If you eject the magazine, will it still function? The one shot? So thank goodness this guy wasn't very familiar with it. And so when he started pointing it up at me, it started trying to get some distance and zigzag. Well, the dog, fortunately, as he had been trained to do, he went and took him down. And it's really funny when you encounter these types of situations, how you respond and what you think. But he did his job and he allowed me to get some cover and then being worried for his safety because I developed a strong bond with him. I called him off and he was very obedient. So he come off of the guy, but he had taken him down enough to give me time to get some cover. And so there I was covering and he come back to me and these two guys get together and they take off and run and get in their car and flee. And so I'm like, oh boy, what do I do now? And so I did gather my wherewithal once I realized I was able to piece everything together. And I told the female, I said, you stay right here. And I took her keys, closed the trunk and locked the door so she couldn't leave on the car because I thought, well, if she decides to flee on foot, it'll be easier to find her with an infant. And I jump in my patrol car and take off after these guys with no gun, but I get my shotgun out. And so I'm calling it in. And anyway, I was able to follow them to the next exit where I saw them exit. And they went down a dead end road and fled on foot. And so I was able to pause everything there till all the backup got there. And we were able to capture them in the woods later. Did they resist any with your weapon? Yes, he had the weapon on him and I'm sorry, he had dumped the weapon on the track that brought the Sheriff's office who they were really good at manhunts. Some of the guys that I had developed a really good relationship with back in this day working in the county, in rural county, we would respond, I would help them on calls and they would respond helping me whenever the need was there. We used to scan a patrol because we couldn't communicate on radios. We had CB radios and we would scan a patrol because we each had a scanner. And so these guys came in and they kind of put me on the sideline, so to speak. My supervisor, Shane, got there and coworkers and they went in and they found him. They found the gun on the track and anyway, they brought him out. And we were able to get both of them arrested and one of them eventually cooperated and then recovered the gun. I'm a strong, faithful person and that just increased my faith because I believe it was a guardian angel looking after me that day. And the way the cavalry got there so fast and what I didn't know at the time helped was there was an off-duty detective who was passing by on his way from home going to work in the neighboring county whom I knew. He had stopped in the median. He said, seen us fighting. He had stopped in the median and he recognized what had happened and he drew down on them and started shouting commands across the highway. And that's what caused them to decide to flee. So you didn't hear that? No, I did not hear that at the time. Did you know he was... So you didn't even know he was there at the time? I did not. So we're on the shoulder of the highway. It's a three-lane highway in each direction and he was in the median directly across from us. His name was Gary Llewellyn and he's the one that saw it, assessed it and he got out and hollered commands and drew his weapon. And this was when he realized that they had gained control of my gun. He had seen us fighting. That's why he had stopped. And so that's what caused him to leave the scene. So he was my guardian angel that day. That's a man who'll never pay for another beer in the bar that you're at, right? Well, trust me, he's near and dear to my heart and we've had many conversations about it. And he's a good friend. And good thing Lobo did his job too, right? Yes, he did. And I didn't understand why he come off at the time, but Gary had told me, he said, well, you were calling him off because Gary was familiar with the canines and commands. And he was, I think, the commander for the department he worked in, which was a neighboring sheriff's office. He was the commander over their drug unit. And he said, well, you were calling him off. And I was like, I didn't even realize it. And I think what it was, I was concerned for him getting shot, but he had done his job, thank goodness.
Game of Crimes
"cardwell" Discussed on Game of Crimes
"Yeah, we actually had a couple of folks pass out on us similar to that, but yeah, it's amazing. I couldn't understand it either, but I guess they just didn't want to seem like make any more suspicions. I was just going to say, I was going to get to the next one because I want you to talk about the case where you almost got killed out there on the side of the road. Yeah, let's talk about that, but lead into it. Let's kind of preface it by saying part of it's human behavior, right? How did you learn that part of it just through trial and error? Did you end up going through some training? Because look, the best interdiction people are the ones who can read people. And so how did you develop that skill? It took a lot, quite a while. And where I learned it at was a series of training courses. But the one in particular that I give a lot of credit to was a gentleman by the name of Don Raben, who wrote a lot of the Interview and Interrogation Program for the state of North Carolina. He worked at our Justice Academy and was a law enforcement guy early part of his career. And that's where he spent, you know, really focused on. He's a really smart guy. And he taught a course that I attended, Interview and Interrogation Skills. It was just an eight-hour introductory course at the time. But again, I think that's what really opened me to understanding the human side of it through the verbal and nonverbal cues of how to talk with people, communicate. And then after taking that initial course, I took follow-up training from him. And every time I left it, I was able to apply, you know, different teachings from it. And, you know, it taught me to, I was missing on comments that people would make, strong cues. And, you know, like if you'd ask them a question and they'd give you an answer, but they really wasn't answering the question. They were avoiding answering your question. And so that really opened up my eyes to understanding that. And then it was a series of just paying attention better and learning the importance of, you know, one of the best communication skills is listening. And, you know, and it's hard to manage that, especially at a young career to where you get into those hyper adrenaline type, high adrenaline situations to where you think you may have something that's easy to lose your wherewithal and not really listen and catch up on those simple cues that people were giving you. Or the nonverbal stuff that you mentioned. It's not what they say, it's how they act and what they do. And I was missing all of that at my young age. And, you know, it's kind of like information overload when I started it, when I had ridden with Trooper Ralston and Trooper Lowry and taking the training in, you know, an internal class, it was just information overload. And I was missing those important parts. And once I got introduced to them through Don, that's when it really started applying. That's the time where my light come on as far as, hey, I know what I'm looking for here. And it was much easier to identify. Well, Murph, you teed it up. I mean, you can't, where are we going to go from there? Well, let's tell us about the time you almost got killed. So, and I'm not talking about the time you got out without your hat on and almost got run over by a car. So, but obviously this is a dangerous business. This is a dangerous sport. When you're out there doing an interdiction, you got people who are, you know, don't know what they're doing, but you got other people, you got cartel stuff. So, I mean, it tends to be a dangerous business, but- Like you've talked about before, Morgan, your backup could be 30, 45 minutes away. Hell, I was the only guy out sometimes for four counties. You know, a lot of the Sheriff's office weren't full service. I mean, you're out there by yourself. My first stolen car I got, my closest backup was 30 minutes away. I finally arrested the guy. I said, just get the hell out of the car, get on the ground, you know. But let's hear about your story. So, set the stage for this. Where were you? What were you doing about what year was it? So, this would have been about 1992, I think it was. So, I'll go back a little bit before because it's important to say this that leads into this encounter. I had started getting successful on a more consistent basis with larger amounts. You know, again, I started interdiction in 88. And so, through that several years of learning and starting to increase the frequency with when I was making seizures and the amounts that were involved, I had started learning more and could just understand what I was doing much better. And I remember sitting there after having several successful stops with passenger cars and vans. I wanted to get into looking at tractor trailers and there was very limited training on tractor trailers at that time also. And so, I had started that. And let me ask you a quick question before you get into that because you said you started getting better. Was it, you know, so were you just making more stops and you're playing the law of large numbers or were you getting better at identifying the things you wanted to stop? Better at identifying not what I was stopping because I was a high volume traffic stop guy. I stopped a lot of cars. And, you know, but I got much more proficient at understanding what I was looking for. And so, what I mean by that, I got better was my search ratio to find ratio became much better. I felt like I was more proficient at understanding. And it seemed like when I would ask for permission to search or if somebody refused and I utilized the canine, it just seemed like I was finding it on a more consistent basis without, you know, not finding anything. That's what I mean by that. Give it to us in baseball terms. What was your batting average when you started getting really good at this? I'd say I was hitting about every three out of four, so to speak, some type of criminality. And it might not be to the level of a huge trafficking seizure, but I was finding some kind of criminality. And, you know, this is one of the big teachers from interdiction itself. It's a really, how can I say, humbling effort because, you know, you can put a lot of effort out there and not have the most results that you think you could. But what I found was when I was able to identify something else was going on here, a lot of times it might not be narcotics. It could be something as simple as some other criminality or somebody doing something immoral. That was one of the things I remember taking away and using. I later got into teaching was, you know, you might encounter somebody who's a player that's not playing at the time, but mentally they're guilty and they're displaying a lot of the same characteristics as if they had something, or they could be doing something immoral and you just happen to encounter them during that time period because different people have different levels of moral, you know, approach to life. And so a number of times I would encounter folks that were cheating on a spouse, you know, or they were doing something else. They might not have it at the time, you know, they may have just stolen something, but they didn't have it in a car. Were they locked in the back seat of a patrol car and couldn't get out? Maybe. Well, anyway, that's a good one. That's what I mean by I felt like I got more proficient being able to identify when something was wrong, even though it may not have been narcotics or, you know, they may have had a couple of guns and they were trying to conceal them from you or whatever. But what was the biggest giveaway for you? Was it verbal or non-verbal? Both. You said something a while ago that I found that I was applying more than anything consistently, which was how they reacted when I would ask a question and how they reacted while they were answering it. That non-verbal cue was huge for me. But as Don taught me, it was clusters of cues. One by itself didn't mean anything, but when you started seeing clusters of them consistently, that's what you need to pay attention to. When I taught an interview and interrogation, that's what we looked at. Look at how they act right before, during and after the answers. And that's what you're looking for is a cluster of behaviors. Are they doing things to delay? Are they clearing their throat? Are they reaching down, releasing tension by pulling? For guys, number one clue for me on a lot of times was they pulled up their socks. You'd be interviewing them in a room, they'd have to reach down and pull up their socks. How many times can you do that, pal? Exactly. So anyway, through that time period, going back to the truck thing, I decided, you know, I want to start looking at trucks. I had no training on commercial vehicles. So, you know, I kind of took the old approach that my dad did when he taught me how to swim, which was he threw me in, said sink or swim kind of deal. And so I just started stopping them and learning. And somebody had told me, if you really want to learn about the commercial industry, talk to a professional truck driver. Weren't you stopping trucks, though, as part of your normal duties? We used to have to do truck checks. They would expect, you know, do truck checks, check their logs and do stuff like that. I mean, you were already stopping trucks, though, right? No, no. At that time, the patrol did not have regulatory authority. Bill Keening. Yeah, that was our Division of Motor Vehicles Enforcement Group, which is what I mentioned early part of our conversation. Through my career, they were then merged in with our agency. So they had regulatory authority, but we had none at all as far as the federal regulations. And so we didn't stop a lot of trucks. Occasionally, you wouldn't encounter one, but for the most part, we didn't. And so once I got into doing that and learning about the industry, what the norms were, and what was cost effective, anyway, I started paying more attention and trying to apply those principles and teachings from the passenger cars. And I started having some success with trucks. I'll never forget my first truck seizure was two guys that, when I got permission to search, I had them stand out by the wood line, and I was by myself. And this is an important point to make because this is what leads into the story. I had went into their cab and opened the sleeper curtain, and there was four U-Haul boxes. And they were so heavy, you couldn't pick them up. Well, I cut it with a knife and saw it was kilos of cocaine. And so I immediately went out and arrested them. And it turned out to be it was about 300 pounds of coke. And so that kind of led me down this path of I started having more success with trucks. And some of the seizures kept getting a little bigger as far as quantity-wise. And that's where my interaction with DEA really started coming in more consistently was they were coming out and responding to follow up and work these cases. And taking credit and putting out the press release, just like the FBI, right? Absolutely. And so that leads into, in that time period, that four- to five-year time period, I had had a number of successes, encounters, and I had gotten a little brazen, a little bold, you know, searching by myself. And a lot of times I had backup, but sometimes I didn't. So going to this particular case that Steve mentioned, I was working early one morning. And I had worked, it was an overtime shift. My shift at that time, I had started working on an interstate operation, which is a temporary assignment. My shift mates were off. And so I went out working. And the very first stop, two cars passed me. They were originally speeding. And when it went past, it was a male, two males in the front vehicle. And the second vehicle was a female with an infant child. I could see the car seat in the back. And they started changing lanes together and slowed way down. And I had clocked them at like maybe 10 over the speed limit. I think it was like 65 and a 55 or something. So I catch up with them and stop them. And both of them are rental cars. And so I get to talking with them. And they said, no, we don't know each other. We're not traveling together. But yet when I got the rental agreements, they were both rented same location. And the name that had rented both of them was the same, which was the passenger in the front car. And so recognizing, hey, this may be- Recognizing that is a clue. Yes. And they were coming out of New Orleans, going back to, I believe it was New York. I thought, I haven't encountered this, but this may be a decoy escort type vehicle situation because continuing to read those teletypes from the Epic Pipeline Bulletins, I was seeing that more and more. And so being familiar with that trend, I thought, well, maybe it is. So I had called for backup and nobody was in the area and was available. And so I went ahead and asked for permission to search. Yeah, you can go ahead. So thinking that, well, if it is one of these types of decoy type situations, the female may have it if she's transporting anything, any other to decoys. And so I got the key from her, had everybody stand off to the side. Again, by myself. And I pop a trunk and lo and behold, right there, duffel bags containing big block marijuana like we used to find back in that era. And so I immediately go to them and order them on the ground. And the two males are hesitant, but the female, she starts crying. And so it gets a little chaotic and they both finally go down on the ground. And I go, as we all do, you assess the situation of, okay, which one is the biggest threat to me? And I was going to ask you about that because standard uniform, right? Is you got your pistol, ammo. I mean, what were you carrying at the time? Revolver or semi-automatic? We had just transitioned to semi-automatic shortly before this. We had traditionally carried the .357 revolvers. That's what we had the Smith & Wesson 686. But you only usually at that time too, your standard uniform, right? Carry one set of handcuffs. So you got three people, one set of handcuffs.
Game of Crimes
"cardwell" Discussed on Game of Crimes
"Let's kind of pull on that dope thread a little bit, because you get onto the, you survive the academy, obviously. So you graduate, you get out, you start working. As you're working, we want to talk about now what leads you into doing drug interdiction. So obviously, when you start off, you're with a field training officer, you go through your training phase, then you get out on your own. What kind of things were you doing initially when you were out on your own? How does North Carolina do it? I mean, you train for a while, then you're out. And standard-like what? Traffic enforcement, work accidents? Yes. Pretty much, is that what you were doing? Change tires, go get gasoline. I warned you, Murph. Don't go there. One of these days, we're going to be driving, there's going to be Murph on the side of the road. You go, hey, can you help me? I go, no. Hey, Steve and I have had many of these constant back and forths on this exact thing. But yeah, so when I graduated the academy, it was 20 weeks, reported to my first duty station and did have a field training officer actually. What was that at? It was in Asheboro, North Carolina, Randolph County, which is on the south side of Greensboro. It was about an hour and 15 minutes from where I grew up, but it was still within the same troop, which was most state agencies have that similar structure where you have a troop and then you have districts within that troop. So that was my first duty station and I had a primary and a secondary training officer and went through, I'm thinking it was at the time, maybe six or eight weeks field training. And my primary field training officer, his name was Wayne Brumley, just a jewel of a man, wonderful training guy. And my secondary, his name was Tony Miller, who later he rose to the rank of major within the organization. He was a young guy who was been on about five or six years when I came on. So I had a good mixture of, you know, youthfulness as well as very veteran experience. And the shift I was on, it was similar type makeup. And so going into the field training officer, you know, having some of that law enforcement background, I had become pretty good at catching impaired drivers at the police department. And so it was a natural... Wait a minute, all the impaired drivers were at the police department? When I worked at the police department, I should say, I apologize. But it was just something I thought, you know, this is where I want to go. And so, and my training officer, he was one of the leading impaired driver troopers in the district and he really focused and was successful with that. He taught me a lot, but, you know, in the beginning, doing the traditional trooper type efforts, that's what my goal was. I really enjoyed it. It's what I wanted to do. And, you know, there's some funny stories in there, but one in particular that my training officer shared at my retirement luncheon and he would share with you today was, this was just kind of an internal trooper agency thing. I don't know if you did this, Morgan, or not, but when you would encounter in the old days, somebody whose license were suspended roadside or whatever, you would take their license there on the spot and you would put it over your driver's side window along the headliner there. Just slide it in there or you'd keep it over your sun visor. And my training officer had tons of those and it was just always something I remember Roger Smith having. So it was one of those little symbolic visuals that I thought, I want that. So I kind of set out on a mission, you know, to see how many licenses I could collect roadside in. So I made a comment to my training officer at the time and he said, you know, there are more trouble than they're worth. You have to keep up with them. And I said, well, that's what I want to do. So he handed me a handful before I got out of training and said, here you go, maybe this will help you feel like a real trooper. And so it was just one of those little symbolic things that I connected with. But in that, you know, his nickname was Brutal Brumley. He was a former military guy, about six foot, six one, thin guy, was very physically fit, marathon runner, still runs today and he's mid to late seventies. But he developed that nickname because of, you know, some roadside encounters, obviously through the courts. And I saw it in action during training. We stopped a gentleman for speeding one day late evening and the gentleman didn't initially want to cooperate. And this was when he had turned it over to me and he was just watching from a distance and, you know, trying to find my way through. This guy wasn't the most cooperative after a couple of requests. So next thing I know, my training officer commences to removing the gentleman from the car and not in how the gentleman wanted to cooperate. And this guy was twice our size. And so I saw firsthand in action, you know, how he earned his nickname. But he was very fair. And anyway, when we got the gentleman under control and took him to jail, he had a long conversation with me about taking control. He said, you cannot let anybody else get the upper hand on you out here. It's because of survivability. So it was a valuable lesson taught at the time. But, you know, I've seen him encounter so many situations where he showed a lot of compassion through accident investigations, as well as roadside stops for different violations. And so he was well-rounded and gave me a good lesson. And but at the time, interdiction was not even in the culture of the Highway Patrol, wasn't even thought about. It was just traditional trooper work. And the county that I went to had eight miles of interstate. But where we worked was non-interstate. And so that leads me into once he cut me loose, passed all my training, I started doing traditional trooper work. And at the time when I joined the patrol, I kind of have to go back here. There we patrol the troopers that have, you know, gotten killed in action. They kind of came in clusters, two and three at a time. And just before I joined patrol, we'd had three members that were killed roadside. And two of those were on interstate highway. And where I grew up, we didn't have interstate highway. So I didn't have any familiarity to it. And so I was like, you know, I don't want nothing to do with that. I just want to be a traditional trooper. But I was very proactive. I was finding a lot of stuff, roadside. And, you know, when I would make an arrest for driving one paired, I took the time to go up and search the car. And if I found anything else, I was making charges. And so I kind of developed the desire to do that. And then in our patrol office one day, my secondary training officer, the gentleman I mentioned to you earlier who had been on last time, he had attended our first interdiction training course, which was taught internally. And I remember him talking about it. And for some reason, it just connected, you know, I connected with it, the stories he was telling, the lessons that they were talking about. And when our agency started the interdiction effort, it was in partnership with DEA. And they had started the experiment on Interstate 95 down in Fayetteville. And the troopers that were working it down there had had a lot of success. They were kind of the first generation interdiction troopers. This is, you know, the mid and late 80s. And so a couple of gentlemen by the name of Chris Dew, who had a first K-9, and Terry Isaacs, who was really the one who was making a lot of seizures at the time, they taught that course. So anyway, he comes back to our district and is talking some about it, and it just captured me. And he had a bulletin that they had given him in that school, and it was an epic bulletin. It was a teletype that would list, you know, seizures from throughout the country of seizures that made the threshold. And so I started reading it. And for whatever reason, it just connected with me. And that's how I began, you know, pursuing the interdiction efforts. Oh, I remember reading those teletypes, too. You know, those were very interesting. You get the law enforcement officers killed summary and then the teletypes. But you mentioned something, too, I want to ask you about. You said that they traditionally didn't work interstate. You know, is that just because of like you're talking about the danger or was it because C is kind of the opposite, a lot of troops where I was at. We had a lot of Tulane, in fact, all of my stuff was Tulane, and you would have killed to be up on the interstate where you thought all the action was. Why did they keep you away from the interstate or why did you stay away from the interstate just because of part of the danger factor or something else? Well, I think it was a combination of reasons. Again, going back to where I said I grew up, non-interstate, a lot of secondary roads. That's just what I was familiar with. And, you know, those folks that had been like Roger Smith and a couple of his workmates, that's where they worked and built their reputation. And so, you know, trying to follow that lead, I think that's why I did that. And my training officer, he worked some interstate, but he wasn't in the interdiction area. He was just, you know, regular trooper enforcement. But that's the way he operated was secondary roads. You know, in that day, you were heavy on looking for impaired drivers. Then, you know, looking for the under the influence drivers, especially on Friday and Saturday nights on evening shift, it was a lot of priority placed on that. And so just trying to fall in line and follow their lead, I think is why I did that. And, you know, but what I quickly learned was what the interstate did bring you was if you were low for the week as far as, you know, number of citations or activity that you had to turn in at the end of the week for the supervisor to see, you know, you could go out there and with high volume traffic, you could quickly pick up on some of your total numbers for the week. And wait a minute, did the North Carolina Highway Patrol have a quota? No, we did not have a quota, but I will say the supervisors did monitor your number of contacts per hour of preventive patrol. That's how it was worded. And you had better be in that district average of what everybody else had. So, you know. I had somebody asked me that one time, do you guys have a quota? Said, no, sir, I can ride as many as I want. How many would you like today? Good response. Yeah, so that, you know, that was kind of my introduction. And then, you know, with my training officer, my secondary training officer introduced me to that. It just kind of took. And so I started going out there and trying it and having little success. Really didn't know what I was doing, but it was just a process of learning from there. And, you know, I was a very proactive trooper. I, you know, did a lot of high production. Got a unmarked car at a young age, young in my career. And anyway, the next time the next class came open internally, my then district first sergeant asked me if I would be interested in going. I said, yeah. And I remember sitting through that class with those troopers teaching it, and it just captivated me. That's, I mean, that's the simplest way. You know, they were given some of their case studies talking about, you know, what their findings were and some of the follow-up results. I thought, that's what I really want to try. And so I came back and started trying to apply. So you started doing this. So what was your first, what was your first big seizure? What's the one that cracked the, because, you know, you have to go, we started it. I was part of a four-person team, four-man team at that time. We started our interdiction unit. And so when you start off, you don't really like say, know what you're doing. You get a few things here and there. We were working 54, which if you remember, the Operation Pipeline report out of Epic, Highway 54 that came up out of Texas and Oklahoma and through Kansas, that was a major pipeline. They were making lots of arrests. So we started working that area. You know, we were stopping everything in sight, you know, trying to look for stuff. But you always kind of start off small. What was that watershed event for you? What was that thing that kind of cracked it open that once you get that first one, it's like, I got this figured out. Well, so this was in 1988. Again, it wasn't the culture of the Highway Patrol. It was just kind of getting started. And so there really wasn't a lot of information to pull from or, you know, a lot of guys saying, hey, let's go out and work this road and look for this. It was just kind of, you know, an individual effort, so to speak. And at that same time, one of the troopers I mentioned early on Interstate 95, Chris Dew, he had had our first canine on the patrol, but it was just a narcotic dog. It was a Beagle. And, you know, some about that during the training, listening to him talk about, you know, the role the canine played that interested me. So when I came back to the district, not long after that, requests came through patrol headquarters or troop headquarters, any troopers interested in having a canine, you know, submit your interest. So I thought about it and I did. And the district commander at that time or the troop commander at that time, who was very much old school, was not on board with this, he was passing it along from patrol headquarters. When I submitted my name, he sent a message back that said, if you want a canine, I think I can find somewhere else in a different place to get you a canine assigned to you, meaning, you know, I'm going to transfer if you really want this canine. And again, you got to understand the internal culture of the organization. So I said, no, sir, no, sir, I'm not interested in one. So anyway, there was another supervisor who had been involved in the early stages of it. He said, I thought you expressed interest in this. I said, I did. But here's what, you know, what I was told. And he said, I'll take care of that. And I was like, oh, no, please don't get me in trouble here. You thinking Lumberton? Here I come. You know what, Trooper Cardwell just told me there for sergeant. And so anyway, you know, next thing you know, I got word that, hey, if you want a dog, we'll assign you one. We're going to send one to the central part of the state and one east part of the state. And you report to this canine school, which was actually in Greensboro at the time. And so we did. And anyway, the school was about 10 days, 11 days. You know, again, patrol hadn't had a program at that time. They were just starting to get into it. And so getting the dog really helped as far as going out roadside, learning what I was doing. And so I had made some phone calls to troopers that I had learned about on this epic Operation Pipeline Bulletin. There was a couple of guys that I kept consistently reading their names. Do you remember a guy named Jeff Faison out of Florida? Yeah, I remember his name. He was kind of the first generation that came along at the time. These other troopers I mentioned that taught us. And then there was some in the area, neighboring states, Mike Ralston and Georgia State Patrol, Benji Hodges, Georgia. And there were some others throughout the country. But I can't remember what it was that caused me to reach out to Mike one day, because I had expressed interest in getting more training. But again, it wasn't the culture. So somehow I made contact with Mike. He worked north of Atlanta on Interstate 75. And where I worked was Interstate 85 and Interstate 40. And I just cold-called him and introduced myself. And anyway, I told him what I was seeking. He said, sure, you're welcome to come down and ride with me if you'd like. I had to take vacation time because I couldn't get approval to go on patrol time. So I went down there and rode with him, spent my own money. And he took care of me really good. He showed me a lot. And then I come back. And we had had another gentleman by the name of Ed Lowry, who had worked on Interstate 95 in Fayetteville in our agency. I had gotten approval to go ride with him. But I had to take vacation time, too. So I went and rode with him. And this was the watershed moment that you're speaking of. While riding with him on 95, he was kind of the hottest guy at that time consistently making cases. And this was when everything was flowing out of South Florida, back when Steve was, you know, he was familiar with all the importation through South Florida. Well, everything those guys were getting was Miami-connected in some way, shape, form, or fashion. And I remember getting in a car with Ed. And he had just come off some days off. And he says, Bo, I don't know if we're going to have any luck. And that's what he called everybody was Bo. I don't know why. That was just the habit of his. But he said, but we're going to go out and try. I'm going to see if I can get you something. Well, the second car that he stopped, it was like that epic bulletin teletype operation pipeline played out before my eyes. The second stop, he gets a four-door, I believe it was a Buick old four-door sedan coming out of Miami, registered out of New Jersey, male-female occupant, and found a compartment built between a rear seat and trunk. And it had like five kilos of Coke. I thought I was just, I was seeing it play out before my eyes. And that just, that was my watershed moment. I was like, this is what I want to do. I had been trying it up to that point with minimal success, but between him and Mike, it really opened my eyes to other things that I really had not been paying attention to, human behavior, the importance of the interview. And anyway, so when I left from there, I was really energetic. And so I come back and started applying it. And having learned to operate my canine, I started looking at things differently as far as my approach and how to talk with people and what to look for roadside interview-wise. And so that first big seizure was a U-Haul that had come out of South Texas, which obviously still is today, but then the major source for our area, it was a U-Haul and it had about 850 pounds of marijuana in it. And once I got that, I was hooked. I mean, I was hooked a hundred percent. Well, let's go back to that seizure of Coke. When you opened it, did you know, I mean, when you saw the bricks, obviously, did you know what it was at that time or did you kind of have to go, okay, wait, you know, I'm just kind of like, whoa, what is this? Oh no, I know what that is. Kind of, yeah. I had never seen a kilo in person. And obviously it had, but I had not. I'd seen many pictures. And so I'm like, well, that's what it really looks like, I guess. So yeah, it was a really good learning experience. Now, so the 850 pounds of weed, that wasn't the case that you and I worked on, was it? No, this was a brother and sister that had come out of San Antonio and they were delivering somewhere in, I think around Richmond, Virginia area. But it's an interesting story on that. We had not had that kind of seizures go through our court system. And when it went for first appearance the next morning, the judge who was listening to the probable cause hearing, he said, he pulled me to the side before the hearing. He said, now, from what I'm told, you can't do this. And I said, well, what do you mean? And he said, you can't just go in and start searching somebody's belongings. And I said, well, I didn't, sir. I said, they gave me permission. And he was like, what? And I said, yes, sir. He said, they gave you permission to search their truck, knowing that they were carrying this? I said, yeah. And he's like, oh, okay. So it was a learning experience for a lot of us through the court process and myself. I love the way the judge was having a preliminary hearing out in the hallway before anybody was even sworn in. Well, again, it's a small community. And anyway, everybody knew everybody. And I'd built a good rapport with this judge. And I just remember that conversation. And once I said that, he said, wow, can't believe somebody would do that. I said, well, he said, where'd you learn to do this? And I told him. And he said, so they tell you to ask people to search the vehicle if you think you're suspicious to want to look for something else? I said, yes, sir. And he said, and they actually do? I said, yes, sir, they do. It's unbelievable. It is. It goes back to your point you were making. If you understand human behavior, if you understand how to talk to them and set the right circumstances, I mean, even to this day, Murph and I were talking about it on our Patreon channel, but at the time, it was the largest seizure of cash in Kansas. But it was only a quarter of a million. I mean, they've gotten much bigger stuff now. And people are going, I mean, they let you search the car. The guy I remember to this day, his name is Brian Lacy. I looked at him. I said, now, do you have anything that would be illegal in the state of Kansas? Guns, drugs, large amounts of cash. He says, no. I said, would you? And one question, one thing I learned to ask was not can I search? Because people always want to say no. I said, would you have any objection if I search for these items? And they would say, no. Well, no meant yes. And he even offered to show me, hey, I got a briefcase here. I opened up the trunk. There's the cash. And in his briefcase, plans for a methamphetamine laboratory. He had a marijuana press. It's like, you dumb son of a bitch. All you had to say was no. And we didn't have a canine at that point. There's not much I could have done. Yeah. It's amazing. I was just thinking, Tim, remember Dave Wilhelm with customs? Yes. Down in Charlotte. And he was murdered in Atlanta. So God rest him. But he called me one day, and I can't remember if it was Asper. I think it might have been Randleman. And he called and he says, hey, Murphy. He said, I got a tip. This trailer out in the country, some Mexicans are in there. Supposed to be sitting on a big stash of weed. He said, I need somebody to speak Spanish. So I met him down there. We took some people with us and walked up to this trailer. I remember that it was a huge lot with these big, tall pine trees. But there were no limbs from like 10 feet, 12 feet high before the limb started. So you had this wide open, we think of as a killing field that you have to go through to get to that front door. But we have no reason to be pulling our weapons out. To go up, like we're going to do a tactical entry. We knock on the door and I get up there and do use my Spanish. And they're like, yeah, come on in. We go inside. I forget how many is 1,200 pounds of weed or whatever they'd been using saws to cut it up. But there was an AR-15 sitting behind the front door. I mean, they pulled out and wiped us all out. But it's just amazing. They're sitting on the dope and they're like, sure, come on in. You know, and Tim, I don't know if you remember seeing this video if it was a Texas DPS trooper, but he's on the side of the road and he's talking to this guy in that Texas draw going, now son, you got anything that's illegal? You got, well, and so he's talking and you can see it's the old dash cam. This kid's getting nervous. Now, do you have anything in the car that's illegal? No, he's like, would you mind if I checked your car? And this kid just vapor locks and passes out into the ditch. He goes, well, I'll take that as an admission of guilt.
Game of Crimes
A highlight from 120: Part 2: Tim Cardwell is a Top Cop for Drug Interdiction but Nearly Loses His Life
"Let's kind of pull on that dope thread a little bit, because you get onto the, you survive the academy, obviously. So you graduate, you get out, you start working. As you're working, we want to talk about now what leads you into doing drug interdiction. So obviously, when you start off, you're with a field training officer, you go through your training phase, then you get out on your own. What kind of things were you doing initially when you were out on your own? How does North Carolina do it? I mean, you train for a while, then you're out. And standard -like what? Traffic enforcement, work accidents? Yes. Pretty much, is that what you were doing? Change tires, go get gasoline. I warned you, Murph. Don't go there. One of these days, we're going to be driving, there's going to be Murph on the side of the road. You go, hey, can you help me? I go, no. Hey, Steve and I have had many of these constant back and forths on this exact thing. But yeah, so when I graduated the academy, it was 20 weeks, reported to my first duty station and did have a field training officer actually. What was that at? It was in Asheboro, North Carolina, Randolph County, which is on the south side of Greensboro. It was about an hour and 15 minutes from where I grew up, but it was still within the same troop, which was most state agencies have that similar structure where you have a troop and then you have districts within that troop. So that was my first duty station and I had a primary and a secondary training officer and went through, I'm thinking it was at the time, maybe six or eight weeks field training. And my primary field training officer, his name was Wayne Brumley, just a jewel of a man, wonderful training guy. And my secondary, his name was Tony Miller, who later he rose to the rank of major within the organization. He was a young guy who was been on about five or six years when I came on. So I had a good mixture of, you know, youthfulness as well as very veteran experience. And the shift I was on, it was similar type makeup. And so going into the field training officer, you know, having some of that law enforcement background, I had become pretty good at catching impaired drivers at the police department. And so it was a natural... Wait a minute, all the impaired drivers were at the police department? When I worked at the police department, I should say, I apologize. But it was just something I thought, you know, this is where I want to go. And so, and my training officer, he was one of the leading impaired driver troopers in the district and he really focused and was successful with that. He taught me a lot, but, you know, in the beginning, doing the traditional trooper type efforts, that's what my goal was. I really enjoyed it. It's what I wanted to do. And, you know, there's some funny stories in there, but one in particular that my training officer shared at my retirement luncheon and he would share with you today was, this was just kind of an internal trooper agency thing. I don't know if you did this, Morgan, or not, but when you would encounter in the old days, somebody whose license were suspended roadside or whatever, you would take their license there on the spot and you would put it over your driver's side window along the headliner there. Just slide it in there or you'd keep it over your sun visor. And my training officer had tons of those and it was just always something I remember Roger Smith having. So it was one of those little symbolic visuals that I thought, I want that. So I kind of set out on a mission, you know, to see how many licenses I could collect roadside in. So I made a comment to my training officer at the time and he said, you know, there are more trouble than they're worth. You have to keep up with them. And I said, well, that's what I want to do. So he handed me a handful before I got out of training and said, here you go, maybe this will help you feel like a real trooper. And so it was just one of those little symbolic things that I connected with. But in that, you know, his nickname was Brutal Brumley. He was a former military guy, about six foot, six one, thin guy, was very physically fit, marathon runner, still runs today and he's mid to late seventies. developed But he that nickname because of, you know, some roadside encounters, obviously through the courts. And I saw it in action during training. We stopped a gentleman for speeding one day late evening and the gentleman didn't initially want to cooperate. And this was when he had turned it over to me and he was just watching from a distance and, you know, trying to find my way through. This guy wasn't the most cooperative after a couple of requests. So next thing I know, my training officer commences to removing the gentleman from the car and not in how the gentleman wanted to cooperate. And this guy was twice our size. And so I saw firsthand in action, you know, how he earned his nickname. But he was very fair. And anyway, when we got the gentleman under control and took him to jail, he had a long conversation with me about taking control. He said, you cannot let anybody else get the upper hand on you out here. It's because of survivability. So it was a valuable lesson taught at the time. But, you know, I've seen him encounter so many situations where he showed a lot of compassion through accident investigations, as well as roadside stops for different violations. And so he was well -rounded and gave me a good lesson. And but at the time, interdiction was not even in the culture of the Highway Patrol, wasn't even thought about. It was just traditional trooper work. And the county that I went to had eight miles of interstate. But where we worked was non -interstate. And so that leads me into once he cut me loose, passed all my training, I started doing traditional trooper work. And at the time when I joined the patrol, I kind of have to go back here. There we patrol the troopers that have, you know, gotten killed in action. They kind of came in clusters, two and three at a time. And just before I joined patrol, we'd had three members that were killed roadside. And two of those were on interstate highway. And where I grew up, we didn't have interstate highway. So I didn't have any familiarity to it. And so I was like, you know, I don't want nothing to do with that. I just want to be a traditional trooper. But I was very proactive. I was finding a lot of stuff, roadside. And, you know, when I would make an arrest for driving one paired, I took the time to go up and search the car. And if I found anything else, I was making charges. And so I kind of developed the desire to do that. And then in our patrol office one day, my secondary training officer, the gentleman I mentioned to you earlier who had been on last time, he had attended our first interdiction training course, which was taught internally. And I remember him talking about it. And for some reason, it just connected, you know, I connected with it, the stories he was telling, the lessons that they were talking about. And when our agency started the interdiction effort, it was in partnership with DEA. And they had started the experiment on Interstate 95 down in Fayetteville. And the troopers that were working it down there had had a lot of success. They were kind of the first generation interdiction troopers. This is, you know, the mid and late 80s. And so a couple of gentlemen by the name of Chris Dew, who had a first K -9, and Terry Isaacs, who was really the one who was making a lot of seizures at the time, they taught that course. So anyway, he comes back to our district and is talking some about it, and it just captured me. And he had a bulletin that they had given him in that school, and it was an epic bulletin. It was a teletype that would list, you know, seizures from throughout the country of seizures that made the threshold. And so I started reading it. And for whatever reason, it just connected with me. And that's how I began, you know, pursuing the interdiction efforts. Oh, I remember reading those teletypes, too. You know, those were very interesting. You get the law enforcement officers killed summary and then the teletypes. But you mentioned something, too, I want to ask you about. You said that they traditionally didn't work interstate. You know, is that just because of like you're talking about the danger or was it because C is kind of the opposite, a lot of troops where I was at. We had a lot of Tulane, in fact, all of my stuff was Tulane, and you would have killed to be up on the interstate where you thought all the action was. Why did they keep you away from the interstate or why did you stay away from the interstate just because of part of the danger factor or something else? Well, I think it was a combination of reasons. Again, going back to where I said I grew up, non -interstate, a lot of secondary roads. That's just what I was familiar with. And, you know, those folks that had been like Roger Smith and a couple of his workmates, that's where they worked and built their reputation. And so, you know, trying to follow that lead, I think that's why I did that. And my training officer, he worked some interstate, but he wasn't in the interdiction area. He was just, you know, regular trooper enforcement. But that's the way he operated was secondary roads. You know, in that day, you were heavy on looking for impaired drivers. Then, you know, looking for the under the influence drivers, especially on Friday and Saturday nights on evening shift, it was a lot of priority placed on that. And so just trying to fall in line and follow their lead, I think is why I did that. And, you know, but what I quickly learned was what the interstate did bring you was if you were low for the week as far as, you know, number of citations or activity that you had to turn in at the end of the week for the supervisor to see, you know, you could go out there and with high volume traffic, you could quickly pick up on some of your total numbers for the week. And wait a minute, did the North Carolina Highway Patrol have a quota? No, we did not have a quota, but I will say the supervisors did monitor your number of contacts per hour of preventive patrol. That's how it was worded. And you had better be in that district average of what everybody else had. So, you know. I had somebody asked me that one time, do you guys have a quota? Said, no, sir, I can ride as many as I want. How many would you like today? Good response. Yeah, so that, you know, that was kind of my introduction. And then, you know, with my training officer, my secondary training officer introduced me to that. It just kind of took. And so I started going out there and trying it and having little success. Really didn't know what I was doing, but it was just a process of learning from there. And, you know, I was a very proactive trooper. I, you know, did a lot of high production. Got unmarked a car at a young age, young in my career. And anyway, the next time the next class came open internally, my then district first sergeant asked me if I would be interested in going. I said, yeah. And I remember sitting through that class with those troopers teaching it, and it just captivated me. That's, I mean, that's the simplest way. You know, they were given some of their case studies talking about, you know, what their findings were and some of the follow -up results. I thought, that's what I really want to try. And so I came back and started trying to apply. So you started doing this. So what was your first, what was your first big seizure? What's the one that cracked the, because, you know, you have to go, we started it. I was part of a four -person team, four -man team at that time. We started our interdiction unit. And so when you start off, you don't really like say, know what you're doing. You get a few things here and there. We were working 54, which if you remember, the Pipeline Operation report out of Epic, Highway 54 that came up out of Texas and Oklahoma and through Kansas, that was a major pipeline. They were making lots of arrests. So we started working that area. You know, we were stopping everything in sight, you know, trying to look for stuff. But you always kind of start off small. What was that watershed event for you? What was that thing that kind of cracked it open that once you get that first one, it's like, I got this figured out. Well, so this was in 1988. Again, it wasn't the culture of the Highway Patrol. It was just kind of getting started. And so there really wasn't a lot of information to pull from or, you know, a lot of guys saying, hey, let's go out and work this road and look for this. It was just kind of, you know, an individual effort, so to speak. And at that same time, one of the troopers I mentioned early on Interstate 95, Chris Dew, he had had our first canine on the patrol, but it was just a narcotic dog. It was a Beagle. And, you know, some about that during the training, listening to him talk about, you know, the role the canine played that interested me. So when I came back to the district, not long after that, requests came through patrol headquarters or troop headquarters, any troopers interested in having a canine, you know, submit your interest. So I thought about it and I did. And the district commander at that time or the troop commander at that time, who was very much old school, was not on board with this, he was passing it along from patrol headquarters. When I submitted my name, he sent a message back that said, if you want a canine, I think I can find somewhere else in a different place to get you a canine assigned to you, meaning, you know, I'm going to transfer if you really want this canine. And again, you got to understand the internal culture of the organization. So I said, no, sir, no, sir, I'm not interested in one. So anyway, there was another supervisor who had been involved in the early stages of it. He said, I thought you expressed interest in this. I said, I did. But here's what, you know, what I was told. And he said, I'll take care of that. And I was like, oh, no, please don't get me in trouble here. You thinking Lumberton? Here I come. You know what, Trooper Cardwell just told me there for sergeant. And so anyway, you know, next thing you know, I got word that, hey, if you want a dog, we'll assign you one. We're going to send one to the central part of the state and one east part of the state. And you report to this canine school, which was actually in Greensboro at the time. And so we did. And anyway, the school was about 10 days, 11 days. You know, again, patrol hadn't had a program at that time. They were just starting to get into it. And so getting the dog really helped as far as going out roadside, learning what I was doing. And so I had made some phone calls to troopers that I had learned about on this epic Operation Pipeline Bulletin. There was a couple of guys that I kept consistently reading their names. Do you remember a guy named Jeff Faison out of Florida? Yeah, I remember his name. He was kind of the first generation that came along at the time. These other troopers I mentioned that taught us. And then there was some in the area, neighboring states, Mike Ralston and Georgia State Patrol, Benji Hodges, Georgia. And there were some others throughout the country. But I can't remember what it was that caused me to reach out to Mike one day, because I had expressed interest in getting more training. But again, it wasn't the culture. So somehow I made contact with Mike. He worked north of Atlanta on Interstate 75. And where I worked was Interstate 85 and Interstate 40. And I just cold -called him and introduced myself. And anyway, I told him what I was seeking. He said, sure, you're welcome to come down and ride with me if you'd like. I had to take vacation time because I couldn't get approval to go on patrol time. So I went down there and rode with him, spent my own money. And he took care of me really good. He showed me a lot. And then I come back. And we had had another gentleman by the name of Ed Lowry, who had worked on Interstate 95 in Fayetteville in our agency. I had gotten approval to go ride with him. But I had to take vacation time, too. So I went and rode with him. And this was the watershed moment that you're speaking of. While riding with him on 95, he was kind of the hottest guy at that time consistently making cases. And this was when everything was flowing out of South Florida, back when Steve was, you know, he was familiar with all the importation through South Florida. Well, everything those guys were getting was Miami -connected in some way, shape, form, or fashion. And I remember getting in a car with Ed. And he had just come off some days off. And says, he Bo, I don't know if we're going to have any luck. And that's what he called everybody was Bo. I don't know why. That was just the habit of his. But he said, but we're going to go out and try. I'm going to see if I can get you something. Well, the second car that he stopped, it was like that epic bulletin teletype operation pipeline played out before my eyes. The second stop, he gets a four -door, I believe it was a Buick old four -door sedan coming out of Miami, registered out of New Jersey, male -female occupant, and found a compartment built between a rear seat and trunk. And it had like five kilos of Coke. I thought I was just, I was seeing it play out before my eyes. And that just, that was my watershed moment. I was like, this is what I want to do. I had been trying it up to that point with minimal success, but between him and Mike, it really opened my eyes to other things that I really had not been paying attention to, human behavior, the importance of the interview. And anyway, so when I left from there, I was really energetic. And so I come back and started applying it. And having learned to operate my canine, I started looking at things differently as far as my approach and how to talk with people and what to look for roadside interview -wise. And so that first big seizure was a U -Haul that had come out of South Texas, which obviously still is today, but then the major source for our area, it was a U -Haul and it had about 850 pounds of marijuana in it. And once I got that, I was hooked. I mean, I was hooked a hundred percent. Well, let's go back to that seizure of Coke. When you opened it, did you know, I mean, when you saw the bricks, obviously, did you know what it was at that time or did you kind of have to go, okay, wait, you know, I'm just kind of like, whoa, what is this? Oh no, I know what that is. Kind of, yeah. I had never seen a kilo in person. And obviously it had, but I had not. I'd seen many pictures. And so I'm like, well, that's what it really looks like, I guess. So yeah, it was a really good learning experience. Now, so the 850 pounds of weed, that wasn't the case that you and I worked on, was it? No, this was a brother and sister that had come out of San Antonio and they were delivering somewhere in, I think around Richmond, Virginia area. But it's an interesting story on that. We had not had that kind of seizures go through our court system. And when it went for first appearance the next morning, the judge who was listening to the probable cause hearing, he said, he pulled me to the side before the hearing. He said, now, from what I'm told, you can't do this. And I said, well, what do you mean? And he said, you can't just go in and start searching somebody's belongings. And I said, well, I didn't, sir. I said, they gave me permission. And he was like, what? And I said, yes, sir. He said, they gave you permission to search their truck, knowing that they were carrying this? I said, yeah. And he's like, oh, okay. So it was a learning experience for a lot of us through the court process and myself. I love the way the judge was having a preliminary hearing out in the hallway before anybody was even sworn in. Well, again, it's a small community. And anyway, everybody knew everybody. And I'd built a good rapport with this judge. And I just remember that conversation. And once I said that, he said, wow, can't believe somebody would do that. I said, well, he said, where'd you learn to do this? And I told him. And he said, so they tell you to ask people to search the vehicle if you think you're suspicious to want to look for something else? I said, yes, sir. And he said, and they actually do? I said, yes, sir, they do. It's unbelievable. It is. It goes back to your point you were making. If you understand human behavior, if you understand how to talk to them and set the right circumstances, I mean, even to this day, Murph and I were talking about it on our Patreon channel, but at the time, it was the largest seizure of cash in Kansas. But it was only a quarter of a million. I mean, they've gotten much bigger stuff now. And people are going, I mean, they let you search the car. The guy I remember to this day, his name is Brian Lacy. I looked at him. I said, now, do you have anything that would be illegal in the state of Kansas? Guns, drugs, large amounts of cash. He says, no. I said, would you? And one question, one thing I learned to ask was not can I search? Because people always want to say no. I said, would you have any objection if I search for these items? And they would say, no. Well, no meant yes. And he even offered to show me, hey, I got a briefcase here. I opened up the trunk. There's the cash. And in his briefcase, plans for a methamphetamine laboratory. He had a marijuana press. It's like, you dumb son of a bitch. All you had to say was no. And we didn't have a canine at that point. There's not much I could have done. Yeah. It's amazing. I was just thinking, Tim, remember Dave Wilhelm with customs? Yes. Down in Charlotte. And he was murdered in Atlanta. So God rest him. But he called me one day, and I can't remember if it was Asper. I think it might have been Randleman. And he called and he says, hey, Murphy. He said, I got a tip. This trailer out in the country, some Mexicans are in there. Supposed to be sitting on a big stash of weed. He said, I need somebody to speak Spanish. So I met him down there. We took some people with us and walked up to this trailer. I remember that it was a huge lot with these big, tall pine trees. But there were no limbs from like 10 feet, 12 feet high before the limb started. So you had this wide open, we think of as a killing field that you have to go through to get to that front door. But we have no reason to be pulling our weapons out. To go up, like we're going to do a tactical entry. We knock on the door and I get up there and do use my Spanish. And they're like, yeah, come on in. We go inside. I forget how many is 1 ,200 pounds of weed or whatever they'd been using saws to cut it up. But there was an AR -15 sitting behind the front door. I mean, they pulled out and wiped us all out. But it's just amazing. They're sitting on the dope and they're like, sure, come on in. You know, and Tim, I don't know if you remember seeing this video if it was a Texas DPS trooper, but he's on the side of the road and he's talking to this guy in that Texas draw going, now son, you got anything that's illegal? You got, well, and so he's talking and you can see it's the old dash cam. This kid's getting nervous. Now, do you have anything in the car that's illegal? No, he's like, would you mind if I checked your car? And this kid just vapor locks and passes out into the ditch. He goes, well, I'll take that as an admission of guilt.
Game of Crimes
"cardwell" Discussed on Game of Crimes
"Selling vacuums would suck, man. I'll tell you. Thank you very much. So anyway, that's what led me into the law enforcement career. And while there as a dispatcher, you know, I learned a lot and I thought, you know, I'd like to try this. And so when I got old enough, the police chief, he said he would sponsor me to go to rookie school, which I did. And he continued to pay me a salary. And once I completed rookie school, he brought me in as a sworn officer where I served, I guess, to about a year and a half, two years before I went on to, I got hired by the patrol. Well, yeah, before we get too far down, so did you have to be 21 to be sworn? How old did you have to be? At the time, it was 20. You could carry a gun. Yeah, so I started rookie school at about 19 and a half. And when I graduated, I can't remember how many weeks it was. It was like 16 or 18 weeks. I had just qualified to carry a gun as far as age-wise. That was a lot back in 82, 83 to have a 16-week academy. My first academy before I got on the patrol was only five weeks. Oh, wow. Wow. Even West Virginia was 12 weeks. It was dangerous. Well, Kansas has changed it now, but yeah, I remember going through 1982, man, five weeks. Hey, I want to go back. You said something. You said you lost your parents. How old were you when you lost your parents? I just had turned 19. I lost them three months apart. And it left me in a situation where I was trying to find my way, but that left me even more lost. And my wife, who within we were dating and had just gotten engaged, we got engaged at an early age. But it gave me a sense of not knowing what I wanted to do. I just felt totally unprepared. But after adjusting to that a short time period, I decided, you know, if I'm going to do law enforcement, which I had tried community college trying to get my degree in electronics, and believe me, I failed at that miserably. Even so, today, technology, I'm challenged on that. But I had had a relative who went through an electronics course. He had played college ball, and he was very successful and started his own business. And so I thought, well, I'll go that path. But it quickly showed me that was not for me. So I completed one semester successfully. So I thought, you know, this law enforcement thing is of interest to me. So I'll try my hand in the criminal justice program, which is what I eventually did. And that kind of helped set me on a path to where I could, you know, have a profession, so to speak. That's a very successful profession, by the way. Well, thank you. So I just want to close out on that, because it's one thing to lose a parent. You know, it's another thing to lose them three months apart. Was it accidental, medical, or something happened? I mean, what happened that it was only three months apart? Yeah, so my mother, she had had, how can I say, she had some health issues at a young age. She was born with a heart defect. And at 36 years old, just prior to that, she also worked in a local manufacturing plant. She had injured her back and had three back surgeries for disc issues. And so she went out on disability at an early 30s age. And anyway, through that time period, she also had a heart attack at 36 years old. And that heart attack was a very severe one. And we didn't know it at the time, but she had been born with a heart defect. And so before she died at 42 years old, 43 years old, and when she passed away, she had only been having 20% of a heart that functioned. So hers was kind of progressive. And when it happened, she had a lot of hospital trips that actually have some funny stories to it. But she would get a lot of angina pains, and we would have to rush to the hospital, call the ambulance, and so forth. And anyway, as much pain as she went through with her back, and I remember as a young boy having to help her change all of her treatment patches. She had to get like little electric shocks in her back to minimize her pain. I had to do that as a young boy, help her do that. And through all that pain that she had, and then with the heart issues, she passed away in her sleep one night just as peaceful as could be. So hers was kind of expected. And then my dad, he just kind of grieved himself after that. His was accidental, but he grieved himself to death. And his was not expected at all. And I just remember the night that we did his service and buried him, I remember thinking, what do I do now? It was such a profound thought that sticks with me today. Well, what do I do now? And anyway, fortunately, I had started on somewhat of a path to figure out what I was going to do with life. And so that's where the law enforcement side of it really come into play that really was instrumental in helping me get through life as a man. Well, that sounds like a role for Roger Smith, the trooper, right? He was there during that time. Yes, he was in a major way. He, along with some others. And to see the support at that time period between neighbors, friends, and family, and to include my now wife and my sister. I have an older sibling. She's seven years older than I was. She was huge. I can't understate how huge she was, me and her helping each other through that time period. But my wife, she was that close confidant also besides my wife, as well as Roger that I just reached out to. And I remember the chief of police there who had hired me, he kind of got into the personal side of helping me through some time periods. I had made a couple of decisions that was not the smartest decisions, and he was there to quickly grab me and put me, say, hey, you need to think about what you're doing. Slap you upside the head and say, boy, what the hell are you doing? Yes, yes. And so, you know, I've got folks, you know, that really helped me get started on this journey, and each of them served different roles. But yeah, so that's kind of what led me into it. Well, so during your time on the mean streets of what was the department? Med and North Carolina. It was a department of 10 full-time officers and four reserved. And then we had a neighbor in town that the city limits connected, Madison. It had its size department similar. And so, yeah, it was not uncommon to be on shift with one or two officers, and that was it. Is that north of Greensboro? Yes. It's situated right at the Virginia state line on Highway US 220, and it's well known for its manufacturing plant. And then, of course, when the manufacturing left, it kind of struggled, but that was the strong economic base, along with tobacco and agriculture. And Morgan, before we finish the interview, we've got to talk about the Virginia state line up in Mount Airy. Oh, yes, we can. I have some friends down at Danville who can tell me a lot about the issues between the Piedmont Valley area down there and everything about chases going across state lines and crime. Yeah, we'll talk about that. So while you were working the mean streets, what was the most exciting call you handled? You know, I think being as young as I was when I actually got sworn in as an officer to work the road… Everything was exciting, right? Well, it was. You know, some funny stories there. My shift partner, who was actually my training officer, his name was Freeman Cook. He was a huge giant of a man. He was 6'7", weighed 330, and his hands were twice the size of mine, and he was a gentle giant, didn't know his own strength. But, you know, I remember in particular we were checking a park out of town, just outside of town, and we'd get a fight call at a local billiards joint, which was one of our normal spots where, you know, on weekends you'd get a fight call from, you know, a couple of individuals that were knee-braided. And being as young as I was, you know, I wanted to go fast. I grew up a hot rodder and, you know, speedster, so that was right up my alley. So we take off Blue Light and Cyrene, and you had to come down a little mountain called Medan Mountain, and there's some curves there. And every time I'd hit a curve, I'd hear old Freeman go, ooh, ooh. And Freeman is at the backside of his career, and he had the window down, had his hand just holding on to the outside of the door. And we got about halfway there, and finally he just yelled out to me, if you don't slow this da-da-da-da-da car down, I am going to absolutely, you know what, when we get stopped, to me. And so I'm cleaning it up, and it kind of spooked me. But anyway, we got there, and the fight was over and everybody was gone, and it was a good lesson for me because he said, me and you is going to talk. So we went back to the police department, and he said, listen, if you go that fast again, you've got to always keep in mind you're going to get there when the fight is still going. He said, now we're going to go emergency traffic, but you ain't got to kill us in the process of trying to get there like you were driving. So I was driving over my head, but he taught me some valuable lessons. He said, you know, you've got to get there yourself before you can help anybody else for what you're being called there for. And anyway, I still laugh about that this day and time, just hearing him, whoa, whoa, you know, doing that thing. I mean, it's a visual, you know, this big giant of a man and him telling me that. But that was a funny story, you know, and then we had some others where we had a local cemetery in town, and one of my shift mates was parked in there at midnight shift one night. I was on the radio. My dispatcher was off, and he had another shift mate that was running the calls, and this particular officer was in the cemetery, not doing what he should have been doing. And I'll leave it at that. And the other shift partner gets into a vehicle chase. And so this officer that's in the cemetery, he's in the back seat and our cars had cages. Well, hold on. Okay, let's stop there for a second. He's not in the back either. He's in the back seat by himself, which is going to be really weird, or he's got company in the back seat. Well, I'll just say he had some company. Okay. And this shift mate calls the chase, and he's right there at the cemetery. And so I'm calling the other officer, and he gets locked in the back seat. He can't get out. The door's locked and the window's up, and he can't do anything for the cage. And he's not responding to the radio. And so this chase, he can't get to it. And so this chase goes on for quite some time, and he's just disappeared. Well, anyway, we start having other officers to look for him. Well, he finally appears after the chase and the arrest is made and da-da-da-da. And he's very vague. And once we got the whole story, it's like, oh my goodness, it's a story for the retirement years for sure. But it was funny at the time. How did he get out of the back seat? He actually found a clothes rack and extended the clothes rack and was able to unlock the door of the front driver's seat to where he could then exit the car. But it took him about 15 to 20 minutes to do that. You know, he's got to be thinking at this point, I've got to come up with an excuse when I break this window out. What was the story? Well, you know, to be honest with you, he just said I was tied up at the time, and we could read the rest of it from there. Oh, boy, tied up. Okay, well. So, but yeah, you know, so there's some good stories like that. And we had plenty of serious stories, you know. We had a hostage standoff that I ended up getting involved at the front line of. I was way over my head. But, you know, we had the typical small town encounters there, you know, both funny and serious. But I'd say the lion's share of most of the calls we ran were calls for service, you know, help out folks do different things, elderly move items or domestic situations. And I think that was one of the deciding factors that led me to the patrol was after answering a number of domestic calls, I just decided, you know, this is just not for me. Because what I found was quite a few of those domestic calls were involving family or friends of family or neighbors. And you're really in a precarious situation. Steve, I know you understand that working in a small town department where you did, you encountered the same type things. Oh, yeah. You know, they can be ready to kill each other, but you're the bad guy. Yes. Yes. How many times did you, we had one couple that, this is before the domestic violence laws where you had to make a mandatory arrest. Yes. And you'd show up there. So one time we decided, hey, we're not going to announce our presence. We want to see it happening so we can make an arrest, you know, and was able to do that. And as we're arresting the guy, all of a sudden I'm thinking, okay, we're the good guys. All of a sudden she hops on my back and starts waylaying me upside the head. It's like, what the hell are you doing? I'm arresting him. You can't take him. Yes, I can. And if you don't be careful, we're going to take you. So long story short, he got arrested for domestic violence. She got arrested for battery on a law enforcement officer and resisting arrest. And it's like, but you know what? Things were quiet for a couple of weeks after that. So you know how it goes, you know? Yes. Yeah. It was, it was really interesting to see those kinds of things unfold, you know, and you're like, well, you know, we can't help you if you're not going to try to help yourself here. But yeah, exactly as you described, I saw it many times and I just knew every time we'd get a domestic call, it was not my favorite type of call to go on. Nobody wins. Nobody wins in one of those calls. So you said it led you to the patrol. So was there a particular, was it just a culmination of these kinds of things or did a particular opportunity come up to where you go, hey, I want to, you know, want to become God's, one of God's chosen few, you know, the few, the proud, the troopers? Yeah. Well, so yeah, I, uh, I'm sorry, Murph's got the shit-eating grin on it. He wants to say something, but he knows he can't. I can't. Those troopers got to stick together. Yeah, I wish that could. There was a couple of incidents that really finalized my decision to go with the state. I had stopped a gentleman for speeding who was the father. He was a town councilman and he was the father of a classmate that I'd grew up with and played ball with and had a hard time dealing with him. And then another one where I arrested another classmate's father for driving impaired and he was a super nice gentleman, but the next morning I was awakened by the town manager calling me because he was a very prominent citizen in our little small community. He called me and said, hey, just want to find out the story on this, you know, and he wasn't trying to do anything to change the outcome of it, but, you know, I realized, you know, I'm having to answer questions for doing my job. And so I think those, along with just other factors and, you know, going back to what I had said earlier about, you know, my recognition of the reputation for the patrol, I just decided, you know, if I'm going to do this as a career, I think that's the path I want to choose. So that's what I started on was applying for the patrol and, you know, and fortunately it all worked out. How long did it take you from the time you applied to you finally got the job? Well, let's see, it took about a year, a little bit, I guess the actual process of going through the interview was about three or four or five months. But, you know, from the time I had started the whole process, it was about a year, I guess, cumulatively as a whole. How many people in your class? We started 80, but I think my applicant pool was about close to 3,000. And back during those days, the patrol was the highest paid in the state and a lot of folks wanted to join the Highway Patrol. And so it was not uncommon to have, you know, one to 2,000 plus applicants for each school. And, you know, when I actually got selected to join the academy, I did not have a full-time position. When you start the patrol academy on the first weekend, you know, it's extremely difficult and they're trying to run off the folks that don't really want to be there. And so I was in kind of a temporary position. And so as part of that, that weekend, you know, they have an average number that they know is going to leave. And I just happened to be high enough on that standby list to get one of those full-time positions filled. So it worked out. So they hire 80 knowing that a certain amount of drop-off, because they really only have, it's like a football team, you've got to cut the roster. I mean, they only have like 60 positions. Yes, exactly. So you're in the herd and you survived. Yes, in the herd. And, you know, and I understand why. I was not prepared. I was physically. I had done all the physical things, you know. Being athletic, you know, and working out quite a bit. Before I went, I was prepared for that, but I was not prepared for the mental side of it. Not at all. I didn't have a lot of discipline growing up in that way, and I was not savvy to the real world. And I just remembered the day that I reported, within a matter of 10 minutes, I was being blessed out. What is happening? I had one of the instructors in my face just, I mean, he was going up and down me. And what he was going up and down for, I'll never forget. You're standing around as a group, and I didn't have any military experience. No, I didn't understand the military world, so to speak. And as you know, being a former trooper, the highway patrols are paramilitary. And so you're just kind of standing in a parking lot as a group waiting, you know, for directions. And all of a sudden, the door to the main building, administrative building, just kicks open. And they come out, and it's about six or seven of them, and they just, full dress uniform. They immediately start hollering at you, telling you to get in formation at attention. Well, I didn't know what that stuff was. So anyway, I kind of follow along and get in attention. Then they're walking past each other, you know, doing inspection of you. And all of a sudden, one of them just gets in my face, and he just commences to holler at me, Where's your belt, boy? Where's your belt? I didn't have a belt on, but I did have my shirt tucked in. And I thought, Oh, my God, you know. Anyway, it led to, I said, I've got a belt in the car, sir. Will you better get that on? I said, Yes, sir, I will. And I stood there, and he said, Now! And of course, there is a lot of expletives in between these phrases. And so I take off, run into my car, and I grab my suitcase and start looking for my belt. And of course, I can't find it. I am trembling, shaking, you know. Anyway, I looked over the belt, passed the belt three or four times. And all I could think of, Oh, my God, what am I going to do? I've left my belt. But it was there. So finally, I found it. I put it on, go back and get in line and just endure the process from there. And the first 48 hours was, you know, it was challenging, I will say. But, you know, it was all good. So that was my first experience with the Highway Patrol Academy. You know, you got to love it, man. Yes. Well, you know, back in the day, you had, I mean, we had 16 people in our class. We weren't a big, you know, the State Patrol in Kansas wasn't big. It was like 500 sworn, but we had 2,000 people apply. So, I mean, it was competitive. But you look at today, right? It's like, I'm talking to people. Actually, one of my friends, he was on the police department with me. He's now the captain of the training center for the State Patrol. They actually, they had to go to the legislature to create a program for laterals. They've never had lateral transfers before. Right. And it's just, it's become so difficult to recruit, you know? But anyway, that was a side, you know, I digress, you know. Back to our regularly scheduled broadcast. Yeah, but that's an issue around the entire United States right now. And I was meeting with the, I met the chief here of the Orlando Police Department a couple months ago. Went up to his office and met him. And he and the lieutenant, who I'm getting to be friends with, John Cute, they were talking about people coming in. And what Orlando's doing is they advertise around the country. You can get the lateral. You get something like an $8,000 bonus for lateraling in. And Orlando cops, they get paid pretty good. You know, I was really shocked at the amount of money they're making here. So it's a very professional department, a very progressive police chief who came up through the ranks. But he knows, he knows his job. He knows how to advertise and he knows how to entice people to come to OPD. Yeah. And it's the same way here as you guys are describing. You know, the application pool is really diminished in numbers. And, you know, when I joined the patrol, we were the highest paid in the state. And in a way through, you know, my career, we didn't get quite a few pay raises for a number of years. And other departments were. And so the patrol fell behind in pay to keep, you know, to keep up with some of the better, larger paying departments. And so they're still playing catch up and, you know, still not where it needs to be, but it's better than it was. But, you know, it's the exact same reason, you know, everywhere you go. How many sworn troopers are there in North Carolina? I think they're right at 2,000, maybe a little less. I don't know the exact number today, but through my career, one of the governors merged the commercial motor vehicle, which was separate division motor vehicles, merged them in with the patrol. And I think that brought an additional like 300 positions, so to speak. And so that brought us up to the allotment that we have today. If there's been any increases legislatively for allotment, I'm not familiar with it, but it should be around 1,800, 1,900, I think. Wow. Now, North Carolina Highway Patrol, what's your State Bureau of Investigation called? State Bureau of Investigation. They had another restructuring several years back where they put all law enforcement under the Department of Public Safety. So now you have the Highway Patrol, the State Bureau of Investigation, which obviously is a sister agency, and then you have Alcohol Law Enforcement, ALE, and Department of Corrections, and State Capitol Police. So they're all under one department now with a, I think, a director or commissioner, I'm not sure of the title, you know, that's appointed by the governor. What do you think of that structure? You know, I like it. It makes sense. You know, there's a plus side and a negative side, but I think overall, to keep up with modern times, it's been a good thing to bring all law enforcement under one setting. In our day, you know, we were under crime control and public safety, and the State Bureau of Investigation was under the, I think it was the State Attorney General's office. So it was separate entities, even though we still work together with sister agencies, there was still that lack of communication, and ALE was also separate. And so to bring everybody under one umbrella just made sense. Again, you know, law enforcement as a whole, you know, you've got to obviously evolve and modernize, and that's been several steps, you know, to make it better, I guess, so to speak. So I like the way it is, and the guys speak highly of it that I still communicate with. So it's kind of ironic they call alcohol law enforcement. The initials are A-L-E pronounced ale, right? So ale. We need some ale. Get some alcohol. Didn't A-L-E also handle the tax stamps on drug seizures? Yes. Yeah. Well, actually, I think when that program came about, there was another small agency that was started to do that. And I can't remember which section it was put under, but they all worked, you know, close together. But that tax stamp situation for narcotics, I think it was, I'm trying to remember, one of the original members was one of the DEA agents. Yep, Fred, yes. And anyway, he worked really good with us, and that program is still going, I understand. And Morgan, you'll love this. If we made a drug seizure, we'd call Fred, because he's former DEA, give him the fax on the phone. The next day, he's in the office. He would find out. So if you seize, I don't know, let's say, what was in that tractor trailer we seized? Was it 200 kilos? Yes. So you seize 200 kilos, he comes in, and there's preset amounts on there. He assesses a tax penalty on the defendant who has 48 hours to pay it, or the penalty doubles, the tax doubles. So what that leads to is you end up foreclosing properties. Seizing. We went out with the Department of Revenue. We would make arrests or do seizures and stuff, get the Department of Revenue out there. And they would look at things, they would assess it, they'd make an assessment. They'd say, can you pay this assessment? They go, no. They go, well, then we're taking your TV, we're taking your car. They would take things. I was like, I love you guys. Yeah. Actually, that sued the department they were under, was State Department of Revenue, now that you said that.Our listeners might think it's cold-hearted, but keep in mind, these people, everything they have comes from illegal activity. It's all illegal gains. They're killing other people, they're ruining lives, and they're taking advantage of other people, they're weaknesses. Here's a guy with no visible means of support, does not have a job, he's got food stamps, he's got a fancy car, he's got a big TV or whatever else, and you're going, where did you get that? It's like, you got it by selling dope, so, you know, you don't get to keep ill-gotten gains. Well, let's speak, let's kind of pull on that dope thread a little bit, because you get onto the, you survived the academy, obviously. Yes. You graduate, you get out, you start working. As you're working, we want to talk about now, what leads you into doing drug interdiction? So, obviously, when you start off, you're with a field training officer, you go through your training phase, then you get out on your own. What kind of things were you doing initially when you were out on your own? How does North Carolina do it? I mean, you train for a while, then you're out, and standard-like, what, traffic enforcement, work accidents? Yes. Pretty much, is that what you were doing? Change tires, go get gasoline. And Murph, I warned you, Murph, don't go there. One of these days, we're going to be driving, there's going to be Murph on the side of the road, you go, hey, can you help me? Help me, help me. Hey, players, that is the end of part one. Part two comes out, as always, on Tuesday. In the meantime, go check us out, at Game of Crimes on Twitter, at Game of Crimes podcast on Facebook, and the Instagram. Also, go check out our website, gameofcrimespodcast.com. We've got a lot more information there, including our book list. Any book written by our guests will be listed there. In the meantime, go check us out, also, patreon.com slash gameofcrimes. It's where we put a lot more content you won't hear on our regular podcast. We go into a lot more topics, and folks, it is a lot of fun, so go check us out. Patreon.com slash gameofcrimes. In the meantime, everybody stay safe. We'll see you tomorrow for part two.
Game of Crimes
"cardwell" Discussed on Game of Crimes
"I don't get that much these days, Steve, trust me. And I wanted to ask you about, because when we lived in Greensboro, some of our neighbors were, their families were in tobacco. Yes. And when they, at harvest time, they would go out and help cut. And when they would come back, their bodies were torn all to pieces. Yes. I mean, it came in sunburns. I mean, they're just fatigued. And I guess you have to bend, you continually bend over and cut it at the bottom of the leaf stalk. Is that right? Yes. So, the term we used was priming. I don't know why, but that was just a traditional term in our area. But, yeah, you would prime, and first primings, which was the first leaves that you're pulling off to stalk, was on the ground. And so that was a huge challenge for somebody my height. I'm 6'4". And anyway, so, yeah, that's what I did. Multiple summers helping family as well as hiring myself out to, you know, neighbors and so forth. And it's hard work. And, you know, again, I realized, you know, as I got older, I don't know if this is what I want to do for a living. And then, of course, you know, to multiply that, my wife grew up in a family of farmers. And they raised about 70 acres of tobacco yearly. And so, you know, kind of funny story surrounding that, when we dated, we met at a young age. We went to different high schools, and we just happened to meet at a mutual entertainment spot, so to speak. And anyway, once we got introduced to each other, I found out she was a farmer. Well, that was something that, you know, I knew how to do, and so her family would hire me in the summertime, so I was able to see her like that. But I learned some valuable lessons in that. Her mother, who also worked a full-time job in one of the manufacturing plants, she would come home in the evenings, and they would, in the summer, you know, work in tobacco. Well, before we could date on a Friday or Saturday, we had to put in one or two barns of tobacco. And so fast forward, every time she would come in from work, we'd try to get one barn done, thinking we were going to get through and get cleaned up and go out for a date. She said, wait a minute, let's do another barn. And we were just like, oh, my goodness. Well, she knew what she was doing, because by the time we got through putting in a couple of barns of tobacco— You're exactly right. That was one of the smartest ladies that I never realized at the time. And so by the time we got through, we were just tired. We would get a bath, and we would get some dinner. And I can't tell you the number of nights we spent falling asleep on each other at a date. And so her mother was very smart. But anyway, that was, you know, those lessons or those journeys actually taught me what I didn't want to do for a living. And, you know, I had experimented also working in the furniture factory, loading and unloading trucks. I thought, this ain't for me. And I had sold vacuum cleaners for a short time period. Don't tell me it was Kirby or Electrolux. Electrolux. Okay. Yes, it was. My dad used to sell those. Yeah, sure did. And had some success with it, but it just wasn't a career path that connected with me.
Game of Crimes
"cardwell" Discussed on Game of Crimes
"But he had a well-rounded approach. His name was Roger Smith, and he came to my retirement when I did retire and was a guest honor and guest speaker. And also, he was actually the best man in my wedding. And, you know, my parents had died at a young age, and so, you know, he had kind of a fatherly figure role for me. And so it was a combination of factors there that led me to the patrol. That's not how I started the law enforcement journey, but he was a really strong influence, and he introduced me to several of his coworkers that had very similar reputation as he did. So, again, the Highway Patrol was, you know, that's who the real, I guess, God was in our corner of the world. So there you go, Murph, what'd I tell you? You know what? In West Virginia, the troopers had the top respect as well. The stories, you don't know if they were true, but, man, they were cool stories. Oh, there are some stories, trust me. And I actually got to live some of them and see some of them, you know, in motion. But, yeah, so I think that was a strong influence on me. And so back to how I led into it. Growing up, most of my life, I played sports. Sports was kind of my outlet. I was playing all kinds of sports, basketball, football, baseball, traditional stick and ball. And basketball just seemed to emerge as my, you know, primary go-to. And so all through school, that's what I focused on. Didn't do the best in school and grades. Didn't really have my focus where I should have been. But when it came time to graduation, I had a couple small college scholarship offers, and we didn't have, kind of came from the poor side of the town, if you will. And so, you know, my parents could not afford any kind of tuition assistance. And so being young and dumb, not really having a plan when I graduated high school, I decided I wasn't going to go to college. I had met my high school sweetheart several years earlier, who today I'm married to. And so kind of young and not making the best decisions, I decided, you know what, I'm not going to go to college. I'm just going to work in tobacco. Because I grew up around, you know, tobacco industry, crops and family members raising tobacco, as well as my wife's family. And I said, well, my mom asked me, well, what are you going to do? I said, you know, I'm just going to work in tobacco. I had hired myself out in the summer months, you know, a lot. And that's how I made my spending money. So I started down that journey. And after the summer of graduating, doing that and working in a furniture factory, loading and unloading trucks and no air conditioning and, you know, 90 and 100 degree weather, I quickly realized, I don't know if this is what I want to do for a living. And so I got introduced to a job opportunity through the little small town that I lived in, Medan in Madison, and they had a summer park. They had a park and I had applied for a summer job at the beginning of the season and there was nothing available. Well, towards the end of the decision, after I'd been in the tobacco field for a long time, I get a call and said, it was from the police chief and said, you've applied for a job with the town. The only position we have open is here at the police department. Would you like to interview for it? And I was like, well, I don't know. I hadn't thought about going to work for a police department anyway. Well, anyway, and when you hear about me throwing rocks against a funeral home, I may not get the job. Yeah, exactly. So he had me to come in and I interviewed and he said, well, the only position that we have in the town available is the dispatcher's job at the police department and it works midnight shift. Would you be interested in that? And I said, I don't know what a dispatcher is. What do I do? And so he gave me a little bit of description. And in that description, there was two key things that really connected with me. One was air conditioning because I grew up in a house where there was no air conditioning. It's priorities, brother. It was, trust me. And then the other was cable television. We didn't have cable television where I lived. And I said, so you're saying I work midnight shift and you're going to pay me a salary and there's air conditioning and I can watch TV in between answering the radio and phones? He said, yes. I said, that sounds very interesting. I'd like to try that. And so I started work there one month shy of my 18th birthday. What year was that? It was 1982 when I graduated. So I graduated in early, late May, early June timeframe. And the last week before I turned 18 is when I started to work there. And which turned out, you know, at a young age, it turned out to benefit me on the backside of my career. But yeah, so that's what attracted me. And so I became a dispatcher and, you know, and then that just, as I started learning the profession, I thought, you know, this is something I'd like to do. Well, in 82, I was just starting off as a rookie police officer in Salina, Kansas. And in 82, Murph, you were what, like 19 years already into your railroad career, guarding trains? You're a bunch of young whippersnipers here.
Game of Crimes
"cardwell" Discussed on Game of Crimes
"We're high-speed meter mages, some of the things I've been called, Steve. But anyway, that had an impact, and he was really close to us, and he helped our family out in some ways. Some of my family members didn't live on the correct side of the law, and, you know, we had a little bit of interaction, yes, with the law enforcement side of it, but he was a really strong, positive influence, and through that journey, getting to know him, I just, you know, you got to understand, in our little small corner of the world, the highway patrol, the trooper was the man. That's the way we refer to him as the man. Not FBI, not DEA, those folks we didn't even think anything about, but if it was a trooper that you encountered or somebody had a conversation about, they got the highest level of respect in our little corner of the world, and of course, my neighbor and a few others that worked our area of the county was the same way, and when you heard other people talk about them and encounter, it was never a criticism. It was always in a respectful way, and I think that had a real positive influence, and so I'll fast-forward how I actually led into the career path. Hey, before you do that, though, let me ask you a question. Growing up in a small town, too, we didn't have a trooper assigned in my town. It was like a town over, but was this guy, I mean, you grow up in a small town, it's kind of unique because they got to live around you, but at the same time, it's like you don't get to, you don't just get to break the law of left and right just simply because the guy's your neighbor, right? So how was it, how was he in terms of enforcing the law? Was he prone to give you some breaks or cut some people some breaks, but then say, okay, you've had your last break? Or how was he when it came to, like, writing tickets, you know, and making arrests? Exactly. As you described, he was one that took a compassionate approach to his job, and I remember right before I started patrol school, he had helped me through the process of the application. I had went out and ridden with him on evening shifts, and one particular conversation I remember him having is, just remember, you don't have to write somebody a ticket every time you stop them. He said, most of the folks that you encounter, 99 percent of them out here are really good, hardworking people, and you're encountering them at a bad time. He said they could have just had a bad day, a bad moment. And he said, so if you just pause and take the time to talk with them and use good judgment, he said a lot of times a warning will serve a much better outcome than writing a ticket every time. And that's just the way he approached the job, and I think that's one of the reasons he had a lot of respect. Now, with that being said, he... But here's the reality. Yeah, here's the reality. It was old school trooper days, and he was very much an old school trooper, and he treated a person as they asked to be treated, he and some of the other guys. And so there was many stories about, you know, the roadside encounters where, you know, they administered that old school trooper effort, you know, and that reputation that they built, folks in my generation and even today, you know, we benefited from that reputation.
Game of Crimes
"cardwell" Discussed on Game of Crimes
"Hey, hey, hi, it's Fat Albert. I have no idea who it is this week because it has been a long week. But hey guys, amigos, amigos, players, playwrights, dududettes, everybody, welcome back. This is episode 120 constituting, again, the 120th attempt, I can't even say it, 120th attempt to keep us off the air, but you have all failed. We are back. That's right. You're stuck with us, sorry. That's right. We don't have our crosses to bear and we're yours. That's right. Gotta pay for your sins sometime and you're paying for them on earth. Here we go. That's it. All right, guys. Well, hey, welcome back. Morgan here, along with my partner in crime. Hey, guys, it's Murph. Glad to have you on back. Yes, sir. And hey, before we get started, let's just do some quick housekeeping. Hey, head on over to Apple Spotify. Hit those five stars. We don't know how it works. It's magic. If you used to listen to us on Stitcher, they're out of business change and Google is going away. So make sure you get on something that's not going to go away anytime soon. So Apple Spotify, hit those five stars. Also head on over to our website, gamercrimespodcast.com for everything you need to know about us, including when we have guests with books. We have an extensive book list, Murph. I was just looking at that because we've got another guest coming up with the book and it's like, you know, at least 40% of our guests have had books. I tell you what, you know, we try to read everybody's book before we have them on the show. At least one book, because some of them have tons of books. I got to tell you, I didn't read this much in college and I'm being serious. You've read more books in the last two years than you have in the previous, how many, 79? 102? 102. 102. All right. Hey, speaking of that, you had a chronological, we both had a chronological increment recently, so... Yeah, except I started counting backwards, so I'm down to 62 now. Well, that's because you couldn't count that high, so you're running out of toes. That's it. But anyway, yeah. Hey, also guys, follow us on that thing they call social media, at Game of Crimes on Twitter, Game of Crimes podcast on Facebook and the Instagram, but where you gotta be is Patreon. Patreon.com slash Game of Crimes. We do a lot of fun stuff on there. We've got 911, what's your emergency? Murph, well, his house will burn down before he gets the number right. 199. Here we go. Here we go. Where you guys been? Where you been? We got stuff like You Can't Make This Shit Up. We've got our Q &A, our monthly Narcometer review. I thought last month, the Sicario, Day of the Soldado. Frickin', I mean, Benicio del Toro is in another movie. I think it's called The Reptile. He's good. He's good. I'll tell you what, he can just come and look at you and he's like, okay, here's my money, don't hurt me. He's scary. Motherfucker, scary. He is. And in real life, he's probably the nicest guy in the world. And that's the way most of them are. It's like Boyd Holbrook, you know, on some of his things like Justified and stuff. He looks like a killer, but then he's really nice in person. Yeah, even Logan and I mean, all the different things. He's been in a lot of stuff. Dial of Destiny, you know. So he was a bad guy in Dial of Destiny. But hey, guys, but that's where you're going to hear some good stuff. So head on over there, patreon.com slash Game of Crimes. Now, you also got to head on over. Our favorite mafia queen, Sandy Salvato, the iron fist with the velvet glove rules over all that is Game of Crimes fans. Just go to Facebook and look up Game of Crimes fans, answer a couple easy questions and gain admittance into the inner sanctum where all the hilarity ensues. There you go. Just what he said. That's right. Just what I said. But you know what else I said, Murph? What did you say? I said, guess what time it is? Do you know what time it is? I'm going to ask you one more time because you got to pack. You got a trip coming up and we're doing this kind of late. So guess what time it is, Murph? It's time for Small Town Police Blotter. A little bit of James Bond there. Hey, speaking of James Bond, he would have had nothing to do with this next guy. Murph, I'm telling you. Oh, this one. This one comes out of Nebraska. And I'm telling you, them corn fed farm boys are lonely. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. They're lonely. So there is a few. This just happened October 13th. It's just like today. A funeral home worker was responsible for transporting TED bodies in Nebraska County is under arrest. Well, the felony burglary complaint doesn't really do it justice. So Ryan Smith and a colleague were dispatched last week to a home in Omaha to collect the body of an individual who died there. Now, this guy who died there left something behind, which this guy tried to come back and get. So Ryan Smith called the property manager and claimed that the local sheriff had asked him to collect this item for evidentiary purposes. Now, the property manager's like, nah, I'm dumb, but not that dumb. He denied it, but he later came back and heard noises emanating from the unit which had been locked from the inside with a deadbolt and the chain. After Smith exited the home with his clothes disheveled, the property manager called cops who busted him on a felony burglary charge. So Murph, why do you think they would want to seek DNA samples? Oh, no. Because the item left behind was a sex doll. And this guy returned. Oh, that's not what I was thinking. That's not quite so bad. I was thinking cadaver. No, no, no, no, no. This was a sex doll. The guy was removed from the house, but he left his sex doll behind. I don't know, maybe that's why he died. Maybe it was a good time. Sally, I told you to get your ass in the car. Yeah, guess what? He came and went at the same time. Oh, that was terrible. That was terrible. You know, when I went through the West Virginia State Police Academy, they'd wake you up in the middle of the night. You had to go out and do searches for a lost child. And the doll's name was Sally Rotten Crunch. Oh, moving on. You hated that doll. So Murph, you've heard the term getting shitfaced, right? Yeah, but luckily I've never experienced that. Let's hope you don't experience this either. So a former woman is facing a felony charge for what she did to an elderly neighbor. Now, Callie Robinson, she's 28. She was arrested after a confrontation at the Mobile Home Park where she and the 76-year-old victim live in separate residences. According to a complaint charging Robinson with battery on a victim 65 years or older, she became upset with Daniel Powell. You know what his crime was, Murph? He would always speak with her while she walked her dog. What, just to say good morning or how are you? Yeah, so guess what she did? She took an unsecured bag of dog feces and pushed it into his face. Oh, oh, that's nasty. So they matched the dog waste bag. Yeah, they matched the waste bag with bags in her possession and she ultimately admitted to the battery. How old was she and how old was the victim? She was 28, the victim was 76. That's why they charged her with a battery on a victim 65 years or older. Yeah, and the punishment should be the same thing she did to him. I'll tell you what, it gives a whole new meaning to the word shitfaced and she should get shitfaced. You're not kidding, there's no excuse for that. Well, speaking of Florida, Murph, what is the largest retirement home in the United States? The villages. The villages. You wouldn't believe the stories that come out of that book. Oh, dude, I would after this story. So a 77-year-old Florida man was arrested. He was trying to peddle some things. Oh, yeah, that was on the news here. That's legit. He was trying to peddle $1,800 worth of black market erectile dysfunction drugs. Only in the villages. Now, he bought a slew of ED products, erectile dysfunction, including Snovitra 20, Villatra 20, and Kamagra oral jelly. Oh, my God. With the intent to sell them locally and outside the Sunshine State, according to several papers, now, Murph, this is going to shock you. It's not his first rodeo. Guess what else he's tried to hawk? Marijuana and cocaine. No meth? No meth. Oh, dude, you've got to step up. You're not going to do meth. I mean, that's just kiddie dope otherwise. Yeah, you've got to be in the big leagues. You want to run with the big dogs, you've got to get off the porch there, Cooter. Seriously, the stories that come out of that place are just... Connie said, if she passes away first when I moved to the villages, I don't think so. They have the highest rate of STD transfers infections in the United States. Hey, if you're that age and you're getting some, God bless you. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, but I mean, practice safe sex. Good Lord. Well, that's kind of a segue. I'm not sure how to segue into safe sex other than to saying the next guest is actually pretty safe. He's a really pretty good guy. And he was somebody that you have worked with in the past. And that's how you cornered this. By the way, you couldn't make fun of him. Guess what? He's a God-fearing, right-wing, rifle-carrying trooper. Are you talking about our guest today? Yes. You know what? This guy that you're getting ready to hear his story. I met this guy. He's one of the best interdiction troopers in the United States ever. I mean, he was well-known throughout. And he's going to tell you how he learned his trade and everything. But I got to meet him when I came back from Columbia and got stationed in Greensboro, North Carolina. And this guy, his nose is better than his drug dog's nose. We didn't talk about this on the interview, so I'll tell you real quick. He called me on a New Year's Eve. I was painting the laundry room in our house. The girls were little. He called me on New Year's Eve night, and he had pulled over a tractor trailer car carrier and found several hundred kilos of cocaine in one of the cars. I mean, how the hell do you do that, you know? Because he's a trooper. Yeah, he's good. And the driver was Colombian, so that might have been an indicator. But just a fantastic guy. I mean, one of my best friends all these years later, I met him in 94, and here we are in 23, and still stay in touch all the time. And if it hadn't been for him, your stats would have been for shit, man. Still a stat where he can. There you go. Wait a minute, that's another agency. Wait the fuck for agencies to do that. What other agency would do that? What other agency would go out and make a press release? Well, there's one, you know, that's called Adopt That Effer. You'll have to figure that out. They usually show up after the fire. But anyway, we digress some murph, but we can't hear the story of Mr. Tim unless I ask you the penultimate question. Are you ready to play the biggest, baddest, most dangerous game of all? The North Carolina accent game of crimes. That's right. Ladies and gentlemen, get in, sit down, shut up, and hold on, especially when it gets to the point where they took his gun away from him. This man is a big man. Bring on Mr. Trooper Tim Cardwell, retired, one of my best friends. If you would just like it if it was breathy, because we could talk to you that way. You freak me out when you do those voices, Morgan. Yes. We'll get you some professional help. The love doctor is in. Speaking of who's in, it's not the love doctor. It's me and Murph. Hey, and guess what? We have got somebody Murph can't make fun of. If he tries to, he's going to get in trouble, because he's another trooper. Yeah, so for all our listeners, you can feel my pain right now. Instead of one trooper on every interview, I got two troopers on here today. Who knows where this is going to go? If you hear snoring in the background, that'll be me, because we're going to be telling trooper stories. No, that'll be because you just took your medication. You were telling us of that, and you're about ready. You're going to go on the nod. I just got up from a good nap, so. You ought to be French. Our guest today is an old, old friend of mine that I met when I first came out of Columbia back in 94. I got stationed in Greensboro, North Carolina, and I don't know how we met. I don't remember now, but. I think you got a ticket, Murph. He could have given me one, I'm sure. Of course, I rode with him a few times. I could have given him one, you know? But our guest is Tim Cardwell. He's retired, North Carolina State Highway Patrolman. One of the leading interdiction troopers in the entire United States. This guy was so good at his job. He had a dog at one point. We'll talk about his dog a little bit. Who saved his life, I believe. We'll talk about that story. But who was so good, he didn't need a dog. I mean, he could sniff out coke better than anybody I've ever seen. So we've got some stories to tell him today, but what a pleasure to have you on here, Tim. Thank you, Steve. I appreciate it. Glad to be here. Kind of nervous, but I'm glad to be here. This is not an interview or interrogation. Nobody's going to advise you of your rights, but just in case, there's the door, Tim. You're free to go at any time, you know? Don't make me call your wife now. Ah, well. She keeps me straight, trust me. Don't they all? Yes. Well, let's talk as we do with everybody, Tim. First of all, one trooper to another. Thank you for your service out there to the great people of North Carolina. So think of ours, Coastal and Ulster. How did you get started in this thing we called law enforcement? As a Ute, did you fracture a few laws? Were you on the receiving end of some extra judicial punishment? Or how did you get started in this thing? Yeah, kind of. So I grew up in Madison, Medan, which is north central North Carolina, north of Greensboro, a small town, about 5,000, two towns combined, and just a little mill town. And I did have an encounter with law enforcement at a very young age, and it scared me, kind of like scared you straight. And I had just kind of gotten, you know, as a young boy, I was just very adventurous, rambunctious, and, in a way, got in trouble one night for throwing some rocks at somebody who had run us off from shooting basketball. And, you know, in a way, kind of retaliated in not the best way, and local law enforcement, of course, picked us up. No, no, you don't get to blow past that. What do you mean you retaliated in not the best way? We need some details. What was the nature of the retaliation? Well, so the rocks were the retaliation. So let me clarify. We were shooting basketball outside of a funeral home one night, and me and a buddy of mine, and anyway, long and short of it is, I didn't have a basketball court that had asphalt or concrete. I only had to shoot on dirt, and this local place had concrete, obviously. And so we were shooting late one night, and, you know, being young, maybe 12 years old, we really wasn't paying attention, and there was a funeral service going on. So, you know, of course, us playing caused a lot of echoing, and they come out and actually run us off, so to speak. And so kind of feeding off of each other, being frustrated, we decided to throw a couple rocks outside the building, and as such, we got the local law enforcement called, and they quickly found us and picked us up and took us to the station. And anyway, it absolutely petrified me. And anyway, they did us really good. They were very respectful and taught us a lesson, and, you know, didn't come out with any kind of criminal charges or anything. So it was my introduction to the criminal justice system in a personal way. So needless to say, I didn't want to experience it again. It scared me so much. I never heard that story. That's similar to one I went through when I was about 10 years old. Did any of those rocks happen to penetrate glass, or did they bounce off the building, or what was the nature of the damage caused by your retribution? There really was no damage. It just hit the side of the building. I wasn't that brave to throw it at a window, but, you know, it was just at a time where I was, I guess, getting out there and probably kept me from getting in trouble to a greater level, I guess. So it was good for me. So how did that factor into later then? You know, that was your first experience, but what led you into this thing of ours? Well, you know, as I look back, I can kind of recount the path. As a young man, we had growing up, the house that I grew up in didn't have a mailbox. We had a post office box. And so when I would go to the post office box to retrieve a mail with a parent or, you know, as I got a little bit older, allowed to go by myself, I caught myself reading those FBI most wanted bulletins that's displayed in all post offices, and they just seemed to capture my attention. And unbeknownst to me, you know, I never thought about a career in it, but I think that had a little factor. And then the house that I mentioned, my neighbor who had moved there in the third grade, he was a state trooper, and he spent his whole career in our home county, and he was very close with our family. He lived right behind me, and he watched me grow up, and, you know, I interacted with him quite a bit, and I was always impressed with him and respected him. And I used to see him, you know, when he would leave on a weekend working evening shift with that black and silver patrol car, it would be shiny, and, you know, he would go out. There you go. See, got to take care of that car. Even back then, it's got to take care of the car and the uniform. I think all you guys just want to be mechanics.
Game of Crimes
A highlight from 120: Part 1: Tim Cardwell is a Top Cop for Drug Interdiction but Nearly Loses His Life
"Hey, hey, hi, it's Fat Albert. I have no idea who it is this week because it has been a long week. But hey guys, amigos, amigos, players, playwrights, dududettes, everybody, welcome back. This is episode 120 constituting, again, the 120th attempt, I can't even say it, 120th attempt to keep us off the air, but you have all failed. We are back. That's right. You're stuck with us, sorry. That's right. We don't have our crosses to bear and we're yours. That's right. Gotta pay for your sins sometime and you're paying for them on earth. Here we go. That's it. All right, guys. Well, hey, welcome back. Morgan here, along with my partner in crime. Hey, guys, it's Murph. Glad to have you on back. Yes, sir. And hey, before we get started, let's just do some quick housekeeping. Hey, head on over to Apple Spotify. Hit those five stars. We don't know how it works. It's magic. If you used to listen to us on Stitcher, they're out of business change and Google is going away. So make sure you get on something that's not going to go away anytime soon. So Apple Spotify, hit those five stars. Also head on over to our website, gamercrimespodcast .com for everything you need to know about us, including when we have guests with books. We have an extensive book list, Murph. I was just looking at that because we've got another guest coming up with the book and it's like, you know, at least 40 % of our guests have had books. I tell you what, you know, we try to read everybody's book before we have them on the show. At least one book, because some of them have tons of books. I got to tell you, I didn't read this much in college and I'm being serious. You've read more books in the last two years than you have in the previous, how many, 79? 102? 102. 102. All right. Hey, speaking of that, you had a chronological, we both had a chronological increment recently, so... Yeah, except I started counting backwards, so I'm down to 62 now. Well, that's because you couldn't count that high, so you're running out of toes. That's it. But anyway, yeah. Hey, also guys, follow us on that thing they call social media, at Game of Crimes on Twitter, Game of Crimes podcast on Facebook and the Instagram, but where you gotta be is Patreon. Patreon .com slash Game of Crimes. We do a lot of fun stuff on there. We've got 911, what's your emergency? Murph, well, his house will burn down before he gets the number right. 199. Here we go. Here we go. Where you guys been? Where you been? We got stuff like You Can't Make This Shit Up. We've got our Q &A, our monthly Narcometer review. I thought last month, the Sicario, Day of the Soldado. Frickin', I mean, Benicio del Toro is in another movie. I think it's called The Reptile. He's good. He's good. I'll tell you what, he can just come and look at you and he's like, okay, here's my money, don't hurt me. He's scary. Motherfucker, scary. He is. And in real life, he's probably the nicest guy in the world. And that's the way most of them are. It's like Boyd Holbrook, you know, on some of his things like Justified and stuff. He looks like a killer, but then he's really nice in person. Yeah, even Logan and I mean, all the different things. He's been in a lot of stuff. Dial of Destiny, you know. So he was a bad guy in Dial of Destiny. But hey, guys, but that's where you're going to hear some good stuff. So head on over there, patreon .com slash Game of Crimes. Now, you also got to head on over. Our favorite mafia queen, Sandy Salvato, the iron fist with the velvet glove rules over all that is Game of Crimes fans. Just go to Facebook and look up Game of Crimes fans, answer a couple easy questions and gain admittance into the inner sanctum where all the hilarity ensues. There you go. Just what he said. That's right. Just what I said. But you know what else I said, Murph? What did you say? I said, guess what time it is? Do you know what time it is? I'm going to ask you one more time because you got to pack. You got a trip coming up and we're doing this kind of late. So guess what time it is, Murph? It's time for Small Town Police Blotter. A little bit of James Bond there. Hey, speaking of James Bond, he would have had nothing to do with this next guy. Murph, I'm telling you. Oh, this one. This one comes out of Nebraska. And I'm telling you, them corn fed farm boys are lonely. Uh -oh. Uh -oh. They're lonely. So there is a few. This just happened October 13th. It's just like today. A funeral home worker was responsible for transporting TED bodies in Nebraska County is under arrest. Well, the felony burglary complaint doesn't really do it justice. So Ryan Smith and a colleague were dispatched last week to a home in Omaha to collect the body of an individual who died there. Now, this guy who died there left something behind, which this guy tried to come back and get. So Ryan Smith called the property manager and claimed that the local sheriff had asked him to collect this item for evidentiary purposes. Now, the property manager's like, nah, I'm dumb, but not that dumb. He denied it, but he later came back and heard noises emanating from the unit which had been locked from the inside with a deadbolt and the chain. After Smith exited the home with his clothes disheveled, the property manager called cops who busted him on a felony burglary charge. So Murph, why do you think they would want to seek DNA samples? Oh, no. Because the item left behind was a sex doll. And this guy returned. Oh, that's not what I was thinking. That's not quite so bad. I was thinking cadaver. No, no, no, no, no. This was a sex doll. The guy was removed from the house, but he left his sex doll behind. I don't know, maybe that's why he died. Maybe it was a good time. Sally, I told you to get your ass in the car. Yeah, guess what? He came and went at the same time. Oh, that was terrible. That was terrible. You know, when I went through the West Virginia State Police Academy, they'd wake you up in the middle of the night. You had to go out and do searches for a lost child. And the doll's name was Sally Rotten Crunch. Oh, moving on. You hated that doll. So Murph, you've heard the term getting shitfaced, right? Yeah, but luckily I've never experienced that. Let's hope you don't experience this either. So a former woman is facing a felony charge for what she did to an elderly neighbor. Now, Callie Robinson, she's 28. She was arrested after a confrontation at the Mobile Home Park where she and the 76 -year -old victim live in separate residences. According to a complaint charging Robinson with battery on a victim 65 years or older, she became upset with Daniel Powell. You know what his crime was, Murph? He would always speak with her while she walked her dog. What, just to say good morning or how are you? Yeah, so guess what she did? She took an unsecured bag of dog feces and pushed it into his face. Oh, oh, that's nasty. So they matched the dog waste bag. Yeah, they matched the waste bag with bags in her possession and she ultimately admitted to the battery. How old was she and how old was the victim? She was 28, the victim was 76. That's why they charged her with a battery on a victim 65 years or older. Yeah, and the punishment should be the same thing she did to him. I'll tell you what, it gives a whole new meaning to the word shitfaced and she should get shitfaced. You're not kidding, there's no excuse for that. Well, speaking of Florida, Murph, what is the largest retirement home in the United States? The villages. The villages. You wouldn't believe the stories that come out of that book. Oh, dude, I would after this story. So a 77 -year -old Florida man was arrested. He was trying to peddle some things. Oh, yeah, that was on the news here. That's legit. He was trying to peddle $1 ,800 worth of black market erectile dysfunction drugs. Only in the villages. Now, he bought a slew of ED products, erectile dysfunction, including Snovitra 20, Villatra 20, and Kamagra oral jelly. Oh, my God. With the intent to sell them locally and outside the Sunshine State, according to several papers, now, Murph, this is going to shock you. It's not his first rodeo. Guess what else he's tried to hawk? Marijuana and cocaine. No meth? No meth. Oh, dude, you've got to step up. You're not going to do meth. I mean, that's just kiddie dope otherwise. Yeah, you've got to be in the big leagues. You want to run with the big dogs, you've got to get off the porch there, Cooter. Seriously, the stories that come out of that place are just... Connie said, if she passes away first when I moved to the villages, I don't think so. They have the highest rate of STD transfers infections in the United States. Hey, if you're that age and you're getting some, God bless you. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, but I mean, practice safe sex. Good Lord. Well, that's kind of a segue. I'm not sure how to segue into safe sex other than to saying the next guest is actually pretty safe. He's a really pretty good guy. And he was somebody that you have worked with in the past. And that's how you cornered this. By the way, you couldn't make fun of him. Guess what? He's a God -fearing, right -wing, rifle -carrying trooper. Are you talking about our guest today? Yes. You know what? This guy that you're getting ready to hear his story. I met this guy. He's one of the best interdiction troopers in the United States ever. I mean, he was well -known throughout. And he's going to tell you how he learned his trade and everything. But I got to meet him when I came back from Columbia and got stationed in Greensboro, North Carolina. And this guy, his nose is better than his drug dog's nose. We didn't talk about this on the interview, so I'll tell you real quick. He called me on a New Year's Eve. I was painting the laundry room in our house. The girls were little. He called me on New Year's Eve night, and he had pulled over a tractor trailer car carrier and found several hundred kilos of cocaine in one of the cars. I mean, how the hell do you do that, you know? Because he's a trooper. Yeah, he's good. And the driver was Colombian, so that might have been an indicator. But just a fantastic guy. I mean, one of my best friends all these years later, I met him in 94, and here we are in 23, and still stay in touch all the time. And if it hadn't been for him, your stats would have been for shit, man. Still a stat where he can. There you go. Wait a minute, that's another agency. Wait the fuck for agencies to do that. What other agency would do that? What other agency would go out and make a press release? Well, there's one, you know, that's called Adopt That Effer. You'll have to figure that out. They usually show up after the fire. But anyway, we digress some murph, but we can't hear the story of Mr. Tim unless I ask you the penultimate question. Are you ready to play the biggest, baddest, most dangerous game of all? The Carolina North accent game of crimes. That's right. Ladies and gentlemen, get in, sit down, shut up, and hold on, especially when it gets to the point where they took his gun away from him. This man is a big man. Bring on Mr. Trooper Tim Cardwell, retired, one of my best friends. If you would just like it if it was breathy, because we could talk to you that way. You freak me out when you do those voices, Morgan. Yes. We'll get you some professional help. The love doctor is in. Speaking of who's in, it's not the love doctor. It's me and Murph. Hey, and guess what? We have got somebody Murph can't make fun of. If he tries to, he's going to get in trouble, because he's another trooper. Yeah, so for all our listeners, you can feel my pain right now. Instead of one trooper on every interview, I got two troopers on here today. Who knows where this is going to go? If you hear snoring in the background, that'll be me, because we're going to be telling trooper stories. No, that'll be because you just took your medication. You were telling us of that, and you're about ready. You're going to go on the nod. I just got up from a good nap, so. You ought to be French. Our guest today is an old, old friend of mine that I met when I first came out of Columbia back in 94. I got stationed in Greensboro, North Carolina, and I don't know how we met. I don't remember now, but. I think you got a ticket, Murph. He could have given me one, I'm sure. Of course, I rode with him a few times. I could have given him one, you know? But our guest is Tim Cardwell. He's retired, North Carolina State Highway Patrolman. One of the leading interdiction troopers in the entire United States. was This guy so good at his job. He had a dog at one point. We'll talk about his dog a little bit. Who saved his life, I believe. We'll talk about that story. But who was so good, he didn't need a dog. I mean, he could sniff out coke better than anybody I've ever seen. So we've got some stories to tell him today, but what a pleasure to have you on here, Tim. Thank you, Steve. I appreciate it. Glad to be here. Kind of nervous, but I'm glad to be here. This is not an interview or interrogation. Nobody's going to advise you of your rights, but just in case, there's the door, Tim. You're free to go at any time, you know? Don't make me call your wife now. Ah, well. She keeps me straight, trust me. Don't they all? Yes. Well, let's talk as we do with everybody, Tim. First of all, one trooper to another. Thank you for your service out there to the great people of North Carolina. So think of ours, Coastal and Ulster. How did you get started in this thing we called law enforcement? As a Ute, did you fracture a few laws? Were you on the receiving end of some extra judicial punishment? Or how did you get started in this thing? Yeah, kind of. So I grew up in Madison, Medan, which is north central North Carolina, north of Greensboro, a small town, about 5 ,000, two towns combined, and just a little mill town. And I did have an encounter with law enforcement at a very young age, and it scared me, kind of like scared you straight. And I had just kind of gotten, you know, as a young boy, I was just very adventurous, rambunctious, and, in a way, got in trouble one night for throwing some rocks at somebody who had run us off from shooting basketball. And, you know, in a way, kind of retaliated in not the best way, and local law enforcement, of course, picked us up. No, no, you don't get to blow past that. What do you mean you retaliated in not the best way? We need some details. What was the nature of the retaliation? Well, so the rocks were the retaliation. So let me clarify. We were shooting basketball outside of a funeral home one night, and me and a buddy of mine, and anyway, long and short of it is, I didn't have a basketball court that had asphalt or concrete. I only had to shoot on dirt, and this local place had concrete, obviously. And so we were shooting late one night, and, you know, being young, maybe 12 years old, we really wasn't paying attention, and there was a funeral service going on. So, you know, of course, us playing caused a lot of echoing, and they come out and actually run us off, so to speak. And so kind of feeding off of each other, being frustrated, we decided to throw a couple rocks outside the building, and as such, we got the local law enforcement called, and they quickly found us and picked us up and took us to the station. And anyway, it absolutely petrified me. And anyway, they did us really good. They were very respectful and taught us a lesson, and, you know, didn't come out with any kind of criminal charges or anything. So it was my introduction to the criminal justice system in a personal way. So needless to say, I didn't want to experience it again. It scared me so much. I never heard that story. That's similar to one I went through when I was about 10 years old. Did any of those rocks happen to penetrate glass, or did they bounce off the building, or what was the nature of the damage caused by your retribution? There really was no damage. It just hit the side of the building. I wasn't that brave to throw it at a window, but, you know, it was just at a time where I was, I guess, getting out there and probably kept me from getting in trouble to a greater level, I guess. So it was good for me. So how did that factor into later then? You know, that was your first experience, but what led you into this thing of ours? Well, you know, as I look back, I can kind of recount the path. As a young man, we had growing up, the house that I grew up in didn't have a mailbox. We had a post office box. And so when I would go to the post office box to retrieve a mail with a parent or, you know, as I got a little bit older, allowed to go by myself, I caught myself reading those FBI most wanted bulletins that's displayed in all post offices, and they just seemed to capture my attention. And unbeknownst to me, you know, I never thought about a career in it, but I think that had a little factor. And then the house that I mentioned, my neighbor who had moved there in the third grade, he was a state trooper, and he spent his whole career in our home county, and he was very close with our family. He lived right behind me, and he watched me grow up, and, you know, I interacted with him quite a bit, and I was always impressed with him and respected him. And I used to see him, you know, when he would leave on a weekend working evening shift with that black and silver patrol car, it would be shiny, and, you know, he would go out. There you go. See, got to take care of that car. Even back then, it's got to take care of the car and the uniform. I think all you guys just want to be mechanics.
WSB-AM
"cardwell" Discussed on WSB-AM
"The scale back use on those chokeholds unless deadly force is authorized. WSB news time is 2 31. You might have noticed the change in your neighborhood lately? Yep. Sprint stores are now t mobile stores. Now that scratches T Mobile, you get more coverage, value and benefits and ever before we've invested billions to bring our five G from big cities to small towns across America. Great coverage is just the start high speed mobile hotspot data to weekly deals and giveaways. Our customers get tons of great benefits head to your new T mobile store to learn more qualifying service and capable device required coverage not available in some areas. Some uses me require certain planner features t-mobile com I'm consumer investigator Dale Cardwell. I've trusted America's best choice for years for replacement windows inside. I've done the research. There are a great choice for Windows inside and they can be yours. America's best choices. A James Hardie elite preferred contractor from classic and historic to sleek and modern, You can choose their James Hardie, Ultratech composite or vinyl siding. Choose from dozens of designs and colors there. Three way warranty includes my $10,000 make it right guarantee, meaning you'll never risk your spin with America's best choice. Thanks, Dale. You can't find better products on the market. Certainly not at the prices we offer. We have the best siding and window prices in Atlanta with our highly skilled professional crews, you can feel secure with your home improvement project. And it's always the same unmatched quality and customer service you've come to expect from America's best choice. Give us a call today for a free in home consultation or visit our website ABC. Wind dot com D C. Politicians are proposing new tax increases on American industries. Just as we begin to recover from the pandemic. Politicians want to experiment with risky new taxes, weakening the US economy, making us less competitive when we can least afford it. America's recovery counts on all of us. We can Of Ford. More taxes. Tell Caroline Bordeaux and Lucy McBath. Don't overtax American industry. Get.
The Culture Soup Podcast
"cardwell" Discussed on The Culture Soup Podcast
"The i love right well and you know they're showing up and being in spaces and be your authentic black self but then there's also doing the work you wanna talk about. What you doing with the denise grace foundation. I think is fascinating. I think it speaks to exactly what we've been talking about about the denise grace foundation what we we know that an and with this particular this rebirth that we're we're seeing happened all around the globe particularly in america where people are really focused on diversity on equity on inclusion that we uncover and we shine the spotlight on those who have been systematically and traditionally left out of the story. So what. We're doing with the denise grace foundation is that we're telling those stories of great american heroes that we never learned about People never learned about that why people never learned about those stories. You know we just had him back in may thirty first. We just have this story about the tulsa race Mascot right one hundred years people didn't know about it right. You know people didn't know about it. we've seen the birth of loss of organizations. That are there's a wonderful woman by the name of hamid drake. Who's doing something called the unknown project and again it's about celebrating. Those great americans who have traditionally been left out of the story so we are going through the lens of music with the denise grace foundation so we look at somebody let who has served as inspiration for us and that is mary. Cardwell dawson hard. World awesome wanted to be an opera singer and so she graduate from the new england conservatory. Which is my alma mater. Nine hundred and five. She graduated as a double degree with voice with piano. Now took our longtime to get that degree because you know they difficult they were making it possible and would hoping that she would quit so by the time she graduates. She was thirty years old because they just kept giving her. They'll move finish line. He moved the goalposts throw. You can't do that anyway. Whatever she finished and then she wanted to get hired as an opposite would hire how so. She decided that she would create our own company. Like you've done. Look i've done. Yes seen so many wonderful mighty women due to say we'd look and see where there's a problem and how we're gonna six that problem right and if it doesn't exist and we will fill in that void. So she she created the national negro opera company Which is a building that stance is an old victorian home. The stands in pittsburgh still standing. Today it was the longest running the most successful run by this black woman. And what she did was. She gave jobs to over eighteen hundred singers. Just singers alone k then. She hired orchestras designers conductors. And the directors and all those people and then she had to find venues for them to perform all over the world and cheat all over the united states and she. She had chapters in cleveland in chicago in new york in baltimore in washington. Dc personal she created these national negro opera companies to give an opportunity to celebrate black. A artistry from these fantastic artists who were otherwise not getting higher and clearly just because of the color of their skin so then she also taught music says she taught she taught voice and she took piano and she taught languages and she starts stage direction and she had she taught over six hundred kids music. Right one of which was robert mcferrin. The father of bobby mixer amal jamal just pianist. Who still is alive today. Every ride all these ventured launched the careers of lillian avantis. She launched career of so many incredible people. And then this place this wonderful monument which still stands in pittsburgh today which we at the denise grace foundation are raising money for original wariness about to get this place rebuilt because it's nearly dilapidated. still standing. Some advancing has been declared since one thousand nine hundred four the number one on the endangered monuments list. So the young the historic preservation society. It is protected because it is a national monument but this place was also an access house in a safe house. So when jazz greats giants like like lena horne like count. Basie sarah vaughan like all these people would come. That was during the time of segregation. They had no place to stay on the tour. It would stay at the opera house. That's amazing that is amazing. So and but this is she's been called the first lady of opera and nobody knows nobody knows about her and they're hidden figure in another big. We're concerned with that. The denise grace foundation we are an organization that's about hidden figures about great american heroes know about bringing those stories to the public through the research through our programs through getting into getting educational model modules into the public schools into the music conservatories of schools of music. All kinds of things like that. And that's what we're doing. That's amazing and this conversation with you and one of your leaders of the organization ronald t smith. It was an awesome conversation and one of the things he drew out. And you brought this parallel out just into so much of what we're doing is parallel. And what miss mary did with. The opera house was away to say. I'll just include myself. I love that is what we have to do sometimes. It's exactly what you have to do because again again. If this is being controlled the wave of the country has been unfolding has been under you. Know a white dominance then. They're not going to see that they're not going to know that on until they do and i think that what's happening now is that we're seeing people who are as as we said earlier authentically sincere about wanting to make this country more equitable more inclusive more diverse and reflect who we are american experiment that we are an amalgamation of all kinds of different color and back is strain and is our beauty. Is that so many different voices and so many different perspectives and that we can find a way to use this to advance us. Forward as a nation absolutely denise. What's coming up for you for the foundation. What do people need to know. So what's coming up for me. Which i'm incredibly excited about. We were just talking about our foundation and mirror. Club will dawson I am doing the musical either. It's called a play with music. Okay about the life of mary cocoa dawson. And that's going this summer Debuted at glimmer glass music festival in cooperstown where the baseball hall of famous Um.
600 WREC
"cardwell" Discussed on 600 WREC
"Right back in and left minutes before the top of the hour, taking your calls regarding a little home improvement. Thanks for hanging in there and let's get Tolo. Brian, Brian. Thank you. Okay? Yeah. Hello? Yes, sir. Uh, I got a tip for the guy that was talking about getting the mortar office brick on his kidneys. That every pointed Yes, sir. When he does that Mariah Cassidy click. All right. You know the nice thing about that, Brian is he hung on for 46 56 minutes to, uh, save us. That little tip. Sorry you didn't get here. All right, Let's get to Frank. Here, Frank. Welcome. Look, Gary, how are you? Yes, sir. Fine. Gary. I've got a sister and I live out in the country and every once in a while it gets a musty smell, wondering if there's anything besides Clorox I can use to get rid of that The water tastes fine. Cleaning about heaven cleaned it in about five years, but before that even claimed it for, say, 50 every 15 years. Any ideas? Um, nine? Jeez, I I just think it's a matter of cleaning it to I I don't know The thing I'm struggling with is why are we getting that odor? Um, because odor is created by bacteria. Where's the bacteria coming from? Is the water level lower in the cistern and dust is getting in there is the odor emanating from above the water line. That's why it's not affecting the Um, the taste of the water. Um so I guess those would be my concern is probably the area above the water line and just a good solid cleaning and rinsing and take care of the problem. Okay? Okay. You've never heard of any kind of additive, though. I'm sure there is, but no, I'm not. I'll give you a website to search. I I'm pretty familiar with this company. But I don't know if they have a narrative for cisterns or not. And the name of it is robotic R O E. Be I see. Now they have a lot of drink cleaners and different products for septic tanks. I don't know if they have anything for cisterns. Okay, Well, thank you, sir. All right. Thank you. Take care. Good bye, Mama. All right. We'll go to calm because Georgia and we have Dave Dave, welcome. You doing? Yes, sir. Fine. Look here. I'm Reed saw Christine Tubbs. Okay? Yeah. Used stuff that comes out of Home Depot. Later down the line it shakes. You recommend? Maybe our marine paint or something? Well that earn a poxy. I know there's um, the one you used at a Home depot. There's there's a couple out on the market. Um, was it and a poxy or was it just a non a poxy tub paint? It would just not a process helping. Okay, so they probably having a poxy tub paint. And it's made by home AC Home. Acker home, Max H O M A X. I think Home, Max, and it's a two part of poxy. And that would probably be You know, a little bit more substantial. The secret is and you know there's people that do this professionally. Where they have priority. Um primers. Um In their sprayed on so prep is 100% the name of the game here? You gotta get that super super clean. And you got to get that a poxy to really bite on it. So when you get that tub pain by home, Max the A poxy really read the instructions in the instructions or rather lengthy. And spend the time on the prep. Because that that's going to be the key. Whether the stuff's gonna work and stand up. I've used it before. My only knock on it is I didn't spray it. I brushed it. And you could kind of see the brush marks, but it's stuck. And it stayed, so it did a decent job. The applicator could've done a little better job about how long does that take the drive overnight? So you know, you put it on and I think it's eight hours. I don't know if there was, um you know, telling you tow not use the tub for 24 hours. It's been a while, but I would say plan on a day and you should be good. Okay? All right in my hand and have them send somebody stand blasted to get it all the way down. To the circus. Well, I don't think you need to do that. I mean, I think if you just is the tub kind, of course now kind of rough. Yeah. Yeah, I just think if you just get yourself a Palm Sander and saying that down real good, Just don't put it on a real shiny surface or you know where it's still glazed. You just want to cut through that. Already. All right? Very much. You give me a lot of information. I appreciate it. Thanks, Dave. You take care. Bye bye. All right. Our phone number is 808 to 38255 and Thing will try to squeeze time on here, Tom. Welcome. Good morning. Let me get you off Speaker Gary. All right. I started out with one question, but I've got to first I've got a bottle of wet. Forget I live in northeast Ohio. OK, andare between our temperatures and our rainfall. It's just kind of hard to get it applied. But I had a new roof put on in November and I have concerns. I've got a 50 year old Cape Cardwell. Back in my concern was spraying the siding. Would there be any discoloration in the new shingled roof? No. Should I kind of hope. None. None. It won't hurt anything. It really won't. Now, If you've got a roof, it may have a does it have a guaranteed? Ah, you know, Algy won't grow on it for like, 10 years or anything. Well, um They can It does I? Yes. So what I would do if it does. I think you're probably wasting the product. It'll do a good job. Probably around eight year eight or nine. I would spray the roof of that point. I've gotten people trees on both sides, the house and I'm not. I don't want to spray the roof. I want to spray the siding with the warmers and my concern was over spray or the water running through the fluid running down route there. Gotcha..
![[TEST] It Was a Way to Keep His Spirit Alive](https://storageaudiobursts.azureedge.net/site/images/stationIcons/12112.png)
Outside Podcast
[TEST] It Was a Way to Keep His Spirit Alive
"This episode of the outside podcast is brought to you by lake hartwell country a largely undiscovered region in the mountains of south carolina. That's one of the best adventure playgrounds anywhere tucked into the northwest corner of the state. They cardwell country offers a unique getaway in uncrowded section of the appalachian mountains. Here it rains on seventy five inches year creating a verdant rainforest and as you might expect a lot of warn folks in fact there are more than one hundred many can be reached with the short hike to get to others. You might spend hours walking empty trails or even paddling. A kayak lake hartwell country is truly a- land of water. There are three major lakes including its namesake lake hartwell which offers nine hundred and sixty two miles of shoreline. That's more in the coast of california. It's known for superb fishing and regularly host nationally renowned bass fishing tournaments. Then there's the tuya river a federally designated wild and scenic river. That outside magazine regularly calls out as one of our favourite paddling destinations. It's one of the longest free flowing rivers in the southeast and provides visitors spectacular. Seen as it plummets through steep gorgeous. They're also sandy beaches and quiet stretches for relaxing visit lake hartwell country dot com now to start planning your adventure to the undiscovered south carolina mountains from
WSB-AM
"cardwell" Discussed on WSB-AM
"Well, let's see how wake the Auburn Tigers are. When they stepped back out on the floor here, but Yeah. After that time out, they might have their change. Rattle a little bit of a Georgia leads a 10 to 4 in case they missed it The first time around. They may have been reminded you're in the time out. Unfortunately, the dog's tie, Fagan picked up his second foul. They're going into the time out. He had the first seven points for Georgia. We get Katie Johnson into the ball game. And Jamal Johnson at the free throw line for Auburn, 64 transfer from Memphis and his free throw is up and in good Into five. Now. Dogs by five on Johnson second free throw around the room a few times before falling through the net, so he had prepared Johnson is 70% stepped up there and knock them both down. It's 10 to 6 Dogs lead and Georgia will have the basketball. Whaler walks it into the front court, right toe left. As we view it. Wheeler gets a screen from tomorrow looks the past right wing to Cairo. We go down low on the baseline due tomorrow. He works against Cardwell and Big Auburn Center's gonna be called for Push file is Shelves tomorrow on the errant shot Mike Nance with the whistle and tomorrow we'll go to the foul on first foul on Dylan Cardwell, 6 11 and 2 50 freshman center. From Augusta, Georgia. But Spent his senior season at McEachern High School after two years of O Kill academy, and the first free throw by Camara.
KLBJ 590AM
"cardwell" Discussed on KLBJ 590AM
"Well, yeah, he's got all the latest Gulf News. It's always fun to gossip a little bit with Jeff and just catch up on news on the PGA Tour. I got my vaccine this week. Well, good for you. I can't find a place to get a vacuum. Is anybody out there listening? Who could get me and I'm on every list in the world? I even signed up with Waco this week. I'm on pharmacy. I'm on city of Austin. I'm on the U. T. M on the Waco list. One glad you got it. Well, it was It was a little freakish. I mean, it was hard enough to get registered on the city of Boston. So that was a mess. Yeah, that's the big but I just kept looking and All of a sudden, there were all these appointments that popped up. I made one for 4 30 on Thursday went to the Delco Center and boy, was it efficient? I got to tell you the websites, no good, but it was a fishing over there with the firefighters registered nurses. And the city employees went quick next day of playing golf, because so no no effects and I suggest people get that vaccine. Well, maybe this will be my week to get The shot. I didn't get the shot, but he did play golf last week played yesterday at Maurice Williams Mow Willy with my Friday morning group. Let me tell you what, that golf course It was a little wet, but it is in excellent shape. The city, not spending much money, immunity lines admissible, but they're spending money it Maurice Williams, that golf courses and really find shape may be the best shape. I think I've ever seen it. Well, I mean, they know more swims gonna be around. Yeah, and many is too but but they're just not willing to spend the money until the least situation is settled or the land is purchased by the conservative. It was really good yesterday. I applaud. The pro and the director of golf out there and the Greens keeper. It was in really, really good shape Play today at Barton Creek had a big time, too. It's always in good shape. It's in good shape. I stopped by immunity a few minutes ago and saw little Henry Cardwell over there. Giving a putting less hey, was over there, one of them. Players at the Austin Junior Golf Academy, and it was full. I asked her at the T sheet today, and they said, very steady and full, and that's even on a day. That's a little bit questionable with cold and Jane. Tomorrow may not be so good. But next week looks like a great week for golf that it's fantastic. Well, there's a lot of got a lot of golf going around with the PGA Tour in the Champions Tour, the European PGA Tour Let's start with the American Express tournament out in the desert. In California and right now Max Homa, who has one win on the PGA Tour, Max home, It is in the lead at minus 15, Richie Varinsky, Si woo Kim and a million Agrio are at minus 14. Tony fee. Now it minus 13 with a group Francesco Molinari back in the country playing and playing the country, the while he's at minus 12. The Longhorns in the field. Doug Game is playing well this week. The former Texas Longhorn currently is intense place Scotty Kramer Hitchcock is in 32nd Place, and Andrew Landry's in 61st place. This is Eo Bob Hope Desert Classic and Let me just say I'm not being critical, and they're not the fans out. There just looks weird. It looks weird watching this golf tournament reminds me of the Phoenix Open because this is a Death golf course. But at least we have something to watch. But, boys, I'm missing the fans out there. I'm missing the entertainment that used to be the Bob Hope Desert Classic. Yeah, I was going to play above Hope clip, And there were so many of him talking about how much he loved Gothic. Everything Crosby did as well. But you remember who used to be in the last group every Saturday on the Bob Hope Desert Classic, you know, Bob hope would play with with help me out here. Harley Palmer don't play, you know, as long as Arnie could play, and that was the last tournament. Arnold Palmer won 1973 the Bob Hope Desert Classic, 10 realized And then Gerald Ford would be the third and usually the defending champion would be with him because the amateurs used to play in the bottle hope and they're taking a year off this year, but You know, a lot of the tour pros did not like the five hour rounds out there during those days, and it's the same thing with Pebble Beach, too, because those those rounds are long and Pebble Beach will not have a Pro and this year the old bean cross. No, they're not gonna have the program this year. So justice players. They're also playing on the European tour. Nobby Dobby at the Abbey Dobby Championship. If you're looking for impressive leader more this is the place to go. Rory McIlroy is the leader of Minus 13. Terrel Hatton. The Englishman is it Minus 12, another Englishman, Tommy Fleetwood, is it minus 11? American David Lipsky is at minus 10. David Lipsky is a guy I went to Northwestern was an all American who mostly plays in Europe. But this is going to be on the golf channel. I think beginning like 1 A.m.. I gotta take that washed it yet, but 1 A.m. tomorrow morning, so this should be a good good final. Also, they're playing in Hawaii on the Champions Tour, the missile bitchy classic. They're just teeing off right now. The leaders aren't this is the final round because they started on off Thursday because three days and they didn't want to go against football tomorrow, so they're about to start their final round. Jerry Kelly, Wisconsin is it minus 13, along with Darren Clarke, also it minus 13. Retief Goosen, is it minus 11? Freddy Couples, is it minus 10 and right now, West Shortest. Hello, Awesome guy, but These cats can play. It's Jeff Urich. I think Jim Furik is to know since he started playing on the senior Tour E won its first two maybe didn't have in one sense in, but I'm telling you, he is a good player. Thies gas. These guys have a great product right now and longer the jail in the mix. They really do, but, uh, there were really liked it up yesterday in Hawaii. All right. Our phone lines are always open to talk about golf. A lot of things to visit with with Geoff Shackelford. Uh, What's going on in the world of golf, the situation with Phil Mickelson and Billy Walters, she We don't know what I'm talking about. Billy Walters is a big gambler in Las Vegas. She met him. I met him one time, but you met him much more than I have. Las Vegas gambler friend of Phil's place in the desert place in Las Vegas. He had been imprisoned up until this week, President Trump in one of his final actions gave him a pardon. And there was a story that Phil Mickelson sent a letter to help Billy out along with some other golfers. Shut out about it. I come to find out filled in sent a letter to get him free. And it seems like and we'll learn more with Geoff Shackelford seems like they're not..