1 Episode results for "Camilla Louder"

Marc Jacobs: I Still Have Stories to Tell

The Business of Fashion Podcast

51:19 min | 10 months ago

Marc Jacobs: I Still Have Stories to Tell

"It I was horrified by what I was seeing as people's sort of lack of learning collectively. To what just happened were is happening. It's still happening is hasn't changed yet. Isn't that interesting that we could be the people that scandalise idea of being forced to create something and tell a story constantly what it has no meaning it has no soul it has no authenticity or credibility. Just seem so vacant. I have a choice every morning. I can take care of myself and be of use or I can lie in bed and contribute to the garbage. Hi this is Imran Ahmed founder and CEO of the business of fashion and. Welcome to the PODCAST. It's Mental Health Awareness Week and last week on Bureau F. Live our editor at large Tim. Blanks spoke to the celebrated American designer. Marc Jacobs who touched on a variety of topics from working through the krona virus crisis and maintaining his creativity but also on how the crisis is impacting his own mental health at this time of anxiety and stress for people around the world. Here's Mark Jacobs inside fashion. Hi Tam I'm such a pleasure to see it today. It's always a pleasure to see you. Tim and this will be out conversation for the next few seasons. I guess because we want you seeing each other in well who knows who knows where I am. I am in New York City in my hotel room in Soho Talking to you you've seen in a hotel rooms for the whole luck. Yes yes yes has that been. It's been let's let's put it this way. I'm grateful to be in a place where I'm comfortable. I'm going to start under the start on the. I'm going to start this chat on a positive note. So what have to keep going back to my mind is that I am grateful. I have my two dogs with me. I have clean made bed that I made this morning. I have what I need. I've got a closet full of clothes that I can play with. Have got a couple of makeup bags that I can play with. I have my iphone and my ipad which connect to other people with and I have the where I can sit outside and get some air so I am very grateful that I'm comfortable today and I feel like I'm taking care of and obviously you confidently connect with people. I'm finding. I'm actually connecting with people more than I usually do because quoting about connecting with now. But I have well. It's a strange thing. Isn't it connection? Because I never really I think of this as a type of connection and I we can use these devices of hours to connect with people in some superficial way or in some way that's different but I'm a luddite and I believe in live contact. I believe in note writing letter writing. I believe in seeing people across the dinner table or having a coffee with them I see. I don't see I didn't grow up with life on the screen and I didn't grow up with cell phone in my hand at or or night at or nih-funded whatever and I like live performance in live theater and I liked. I like going into shops. I like seeing people on streets so while this is some form of connection. It certainly. I don't have any kind of real connection to this form of connection. So but how how? How does this thing for you then? Well it's a kind of a kind of goes in waves and spurts. I mean they're I'm very sort of manic depressive. In a way I mean I am you know. My mental health goes from mania to depression. So there are days where I just feel extremely depressed and feel like it's the end of the world. And then your days were mannequin. I just think what a great opportunity for us all to learn collectively from this and move forward and then there's all the grays in between but I mean I tend to go from the basement to attic in five seconds. You know like In terms of emotions and so it's been very hard because I also not really in control of how you feel. You know the ceilings common. It's just a question of how I kind of accept them and and sort of you know honor them etc. So so I've had moments of feeling very productive and creative and moments feeling just like what's it all sore or is that all there is as I keep saying the south. You Camilla Louder. You have exactly. Isn't it funny? How life comes along to trip up those kind of those little notions and give them a sort of real time white. Will you see it's this? It's this computer right here. That fascinates me the most. And that's what I think is always this kind of amazing thing. I have this kind of faulty computer. Which is my brain and it's not faulty in the sense that it doesn't work but it just kind of works as it does right and so. I mean for absolutely no apparent reason. I could do everything I did yesterday. And Go to sleep on time and wake up on time and have my vitamins draped might juices for some reason the Sun could be shining and I can have the most miserable attitude about life and see things through the darkest leads and then I could stay up all night and and and not drink juices not my vitamins and like the sun isn't shining and I'm just like full of hope and you know like so who knows and then yes they're like these songs that comes my head in these things. I've seen in these performances. I know I don't know like books I've read and you know I don't. I'm not in charge of where the where where my brain sort of fires on a particular day but like it just doesn't it and it's like kind of fascinating as kind of goes through all of its little find sub dreaming a lot more. I have some very weird dreams but I've always had weird dreams that I've always been a bit of an insomniac because apparently that's a that's a huge side effect of this pandemic. Is People a happen. Incredible Dreaming Nkala at a lot about real people like either family members will celebrities or whatever but that they remember the dreams full of almost movie. And that's by to pick this. That people can depend up in the daytime and then the minds slowed us. I don't think that I'm dreaming more than I was before. And I think my dreams are kind of still of the crazy surreal content that they always work which combines a little bit of like the tape recorder you know things I've just recently heard but then then concocted into something that might have some other greater meaning but No I find my dreaming kind of the same. I guess you're making a movie while you yeah so via via recommended. I mean she. She had this idea. Unfortunately it was like four weeks in she was like. Oh you should have taped yourself every day. Like just videotaped yourself every day like you had this like you know daily journal like on tape like everything you did just like this endless documentary journal and I was like well if I had started it for weeks ago. It would have been great because we're already for weeks in if feels that will have to do something else. So so nick My friend my best friend and and someone I work with very closely you know at. Marc Jacobs He he and I came up. And we decided we'd do more of a fairy tale like this this kind of life in quarantine more of an louise or a you know like or a home alone or something like that right played all the characters who would normally be here at the hotel but or not like what kind of well everything from the porter to the manager to the chef in the restaurant to the housekeeping to the engineer to the different people who are residing in the hotel to the different things. I do in my room on different occasion to me documenting my set like just just just like I never any element of the other look creeping in. No just just just anything. I can do within the confines of this hotel. Your instagram is being incredibly vivid. The whole time that you've seen in Lucca. It seals almost like you are testing out characters in well. I'm not really I'm I'm kind of just you know I've always been this way. This is like this is nine year old mark who you always was in his bedroom. Escaping chaos of what life looked like you know like a very disturbed and dysfunctional childhood. And I went to my room and I sat with my clothes and I painted my jeans or embroidered. Jean Jacket and I put on my outfits. I comb my hair one way or the other and you know maybe I found a curler for my mother curled by whatever it was but that nine year old kid that me was like a in his own world in his bedroom and had to use his imagination to create a world. That was a happier place. And that's kind of what I'm doing I mean. I have two months worth of clothes that I packed to move in here. I'm I have a couple of bags of of makeup. That randomly for some reason felt were important to take with me and And then you know just and the dogs and Some hairclips jewelry and I'm just playing around and and keeping myself entertained and and doing what I do which I think is taking care of my mental health. I mean I have to get up everyday and shower and I have to Rome and I have to get dressed and I I just feel like not only do I have to do it for my sanity but like I enjoy doing it. So it gives me pleasure and it allows me to kind of be of service in some way. Because if I'm not well. In taking care of myself creatively and in every other way then. I'm of no use to anybody else. I mean I just can't lie an unmade bed all day long. It's the most pressing thing I've I mean. I used to see my mother who suffered from manic depression. She wouldn't get out of her bed sometimes for weeks and her bed was never made and the site of an unmade bed to be as just about the most horrifying thing. I can remember. I remember when we talked before the day. Before your wedding and you you said that you could feel at slowing down important you well. What's important to me at it is? Yeah well well I think I think I I feel oddly before all of this started you know. I feel that that last show was very telling of what I really was thinking. But that's that doesn't surprise me because all the shows are somewhat autobiographical. But I'm told the story of the New York that I remembered that I loved and that I still love but is gone and and the kind of the movement and everything in this sort of losing the fashion within this sort of thing. I mean looking back on it I think. I've enriched the story even more but but it had shades of all my heroes and and it had my fashion life is a New Yorker kind of told and I I kind of felt in. Katie reminded me this. You know after every show. I say like if this was the last show I'd ever do it was I'd be fine with it. But she said you were so emphatic about the last show and I did feel like like things have got to change. We've got to slow down. We can do this twice a year. We have you know I would like to say something creatively but I can do it twice a year. I mean the idea of being forced to create something in tell a story constantly would it has no meaning it has no soul it has no like authenticity or credibility. Just seem so vacant. And the amount of craddock that produces that goes nowhere but phil's landfills and just end this greed and this all of the stuff that goes along with it and besides how destroying the world we live in. It's just like everything just felt to me. Like what the fuck are we doing? So Charlie and I decided to buy this House and build a house on the water well rebuild or restore a house of water and it became very symbolic because for the first time in my life you know I wanted to leave the city and I wanted to get out and I wanted to slow down and I thought I wanna live my life and I want fashion to be a part of it. I don't I can't have this be my whole life. You know that that show felt so climactic to me. The show would Carolina Teijin the dance models and it was such an orgy of creativity. Felt you know if you think of if you think of the LAS looks people that that that Pasolini last movie. Oh something is nowhere else you could go to and I wonder if I wonder if you thought it was. It seems almost prophetic. Now that that would be I do I do in a way I mean. I've said this to my psychiatrist. My lovely doctor. Richardson Frank and I've said it to Katie. And I said it to everyone around me you know. I would be very happy if if that were my last show. I mean because I feel like I've said what I have to say. I said it beautifully unlike by but it isn't really true because it whether it's my last show or not that's fine but the urge to make things and create hasn't gone away so I still WanNa be active and I still WanNa make something and I still have stories to tell but maybe I need to tell them in a different way and maybe I will tell them in a different way and maybe fashion will continue to be a great part of how I tell my story but I don't I'll miss alive show and I'll miss an audience because I love theatre. I mean it's my first love. Nothing can replace the emotion and the feelings one gets from being in a room and seeing something performed. I've seen that show videotapes and I've seen edited and I've watched that videotape and it reminds me of what it was like to be there but I don't feel like what it was like to be there. It was Overwhelming it was well. But you can't get that feeling through a recording and I have never seen a live performance recorded that has blown my mind. It is true. I do think that this is going to be one of the massive for the fashion industry replacing the physicality of When some kind of technological well but it's no different is no different than talking about shops to me. The when people started saying. Why are you shopping in stores when you can get it all online? I don't understand how people can be satisfied by ordering the coat through a picture and receiving it in a box and putting it on and saying Oh. I like this. I'll keep it. I love to go to a shop. I like to see everything I like to touch it. I like to try it on. I like to have a coffee. I'd like to have a bottle of water. I like to get dressed up to go to the shop. It's a ritual inexperience. And there's there's emotion and and cinema involved with shopping but ordering online in a pair of Grubby. Sweats is not my idea of living life. You know when we talk you quoted Lara with taps. Few of you'll free ended long. Ana Rectum movies the Matrix movies and she'd said to you. This is a landscape of the world. It is changing and I feel that you know there are people like us who who still are incredibly attached to physicality for the physicality yes. I feel a rates now that and by codes online and doesn't fit secrete the physical experience of walking talking ceiling generation. After that does I do think that. Let's hope that generation is alive to to to retell the story. Because honestly Tim I just I do think like I I you know. I say this like there's such is such a hard thing to talk about because I know that I belong to a different generation. I'm leftover generation as are you and I got that from Kirsten enemy. And she kristen McMenemy and she says the leftover generation and I think it's very appropriate I do value physicality and I do value the experiences that I grew up with an I cherish them and I'm grieving them right now and I don't see that grief going away anytime soon. I have to go through this process. I think it's going to be a long process and will other people want you know once again will some will some species once again. Seal the value of this. Perhaps maybe not maybe we will just become data while you know you think about what we is your entire life span in New York. You've seen the city of the curves Utah. I I lived in New York. Nineteen seventy I just remembered in. The city was backgrounds and it was incredible. It was it was a very dot the city and then later on. That was all the other you know. There was nine eleven. That was A AIDS before that yes was hurricane. Sandy you know. The city has taken some enormous legs of here. Is this. Yeah but that we're talking about New York City but this is global right and fashion shows. Don't happen in New York. I mean already less season. It was back. I I felt that again going back to the show. It was a little bit of a farewell because already there were no shows in New York. It was difficult to get models. A lot of people didn't come to the shows. You know. Ralph didn't show this season and Tommy showed in London and fewer shows than there were so I have been saying as my team that we don't know if they'll be much of a fashion industry in New York. Will there be factories that we work with. Will they be able to stay in business? We've been saying this for years. So will will the people who have the skill still be around to make the close the way we demand they'd be made and will people still be traveling to New York because it's become less important than of a place to see fashion and I I know that New York we'll take some other shape and the landscape will change. I don't know that I like it and I don't know that I'll be around to ultimately see it but you know like everything changes for better for worse. That's the way it's but we're talking about the world and New York City is not the world. Although I grew up thinking it was all my life but I think this is happening in the world but also it's really enforcing a sense of community. It's made the world shrank is it? I think so. I think I don't know if this from all the things I keep seeing the I mean and again maybe I'm watching the news or maybe I'm just focusing on this but you know when when certain places opened up the behavior the system all looked like it was like oh we start back today and we start back the way we left off so it was very disappointing to see the collective the collective mentality was. How quickly can I return to what I was doing just before this happened? You know no masks jogging on the street in stores buying up close in stuff and prices like I mean it was disgusting. I was horrified by what I was seeing as people's Sort of lack of learning collectively. To what just happened or is happening. It's still happening. This hasn't changed yet. We're in it bring three months and I think it'd enormity of it is still beyond process. I think of course it is when it's when it becomes effective is obviously the. I didn't think we've started to see changes. We haven't started to really appreciate yet. Nominee family you know I I would say give it a year or so. The world will be a radical. Well I've already. I mean you know I mean I again. Speaking from my own experience we had to lay off. A bunch of people asked week. I mean a lot of really great talented people that I've always worked with or have worked with for many many years. And we had to ask the remaining people to reduce their salaries to half of what they were making. And some of them can't afford to live in New York under those circumstances which is which makes cents so. I'm not really sure how what will be able to do with what we've got left. I don't know how I don't know how will approach it. I don't know who will be left to approach it on you know and And I I'm not sure what will WANNA say once we come out of this anyway so so I am left with a lot of questions but on the other hand we do have a system I mean we are part of a larger system which is a big corporate structure that basically funds us in finances us that we responsible to and their thing is. How do we recuperate the business? We've lost so that we can continue to survive and do what we do and each within each each a brand of the Group. We have to hold our own and in order to do that we have to. We have to survive economically. And I feel I'm I'm very torn morally and ethically and then I think well you know I can. Only I have to continue to create something in order to have something to sell. And if I don't then how can I continue to fund? I mean it just so difficult to answer all these questions and I'm not talking about now the whole world and how they're gonNa do but I I think about my heart in this world and I think it's this is my part. Each person looks at their part collectively. We're all in the same shet but if the system isn't going to change than than than if the changes in total if it isn't across the board then don't know how much of a difference it really makes you when you think about what you do are you. Are you going back to what we did? At the very beginning of why you did what you did. At the very beginning what drew and well now. Because I'm thinking of creativity. I'm not thinking of fashion specifically. I'm talking to you about fashion. Because I'm a fashion designer and fashion is how I express myself creatively for many years but I think about the conversation of essential and I I think about this quarantine and I think where would we be in quarantine if we didn't have Ashton or if we didn't have movies or if we didn't have music and we didn't have books we'd be sitting naked in our thoughts with some bread and some water because and some oxygen. 'cause that's what we need to survive. We need bread water air. That's it right so I would not be sitting here in a sweater and pearls and a hair clip talking to you in your finery. I would be nude without any of this. I I mean so so I need creativity. We don't need it. It's not essential to live but we wouldn't want to live without it. I don't think I would want to live without it. I'll just speak for myself so I know that I need to speak to you about work. That's created about the dreams of future work to come about the new movies. There are to see about the new songs. There are to hear about the new dance craze about the new trends about the new artwork. That's going to be made about like all of that stuff without that. I just really have no desire to go on. The vast Santos quite the other day on the live at. It seemed great perfect. I pointed meech the same. We have so that she will. We have said that we shall not die of reality. Will. That's perfect. That is absolutely true so I believe will dance again and I believe we'll be creative again now how that looks and how that feels. I don't know and I don't think anybody does. Have you been looking at during this? Oh I've been looking I was It's funny because it's funny. What is that? I post things on instagram. And then what happens is art dealers or people I know in our say like oh. We saw you posted this. You might be interested in the work of Jean beaver so I looked her up. And then I saw her working I understood immediately why they thought I might be interested so I find. Instagram is a funny kind of ping-pong game. Like I find that I I can use it as a kind of tool to play this kind of match this game where you know you post something somebody responds to it. They sort of say something back and then you get turned on something else and that inspires you and then you turn then you go back with something new and and I. That's how I using instagram. Really as a form of like a kind of volley and So I've I've discovered Gina's work and I think that's great and a couple of others Whose names have not. Oh Well I discovered David Kramer because of Selene but A few a few artists that have I. I didn't know of these rights. No I don't know who that is. I'll look up soon as we get off the go online to look at freeze Neil. I didn't exactly what that was. That was the beginning of the whole notion of transferring physical experience into the digital. Well you know that you could crews there on line and you know now we're going to be seeing digital fashion shows. June probably Jamba and I just wanted to. How successful that's I may. We'll try nice cruising through freeze online but I'll tell you one thing with art. I find again like with theater if I know the work. If I've experienced the work in real life I respond to it online but if I see it online I don't have an emotional primitive connection to it. I do not look at a Rothko and cry online but I stand me in front of six. Roth goes and I'm overwhelmed or Barnett. Newman or something like that. But when I look at Barnett Newman online. I see stripes. But that's not what I see when I saw it at the tate. You know so like it's a very different physical experience to look at a canvas than to see it reduced to a thumbnail online. Isn't that funny but was that sort of the needs of commerce. You know for freeze needs to sell up so I put it well. That's we're all in that boat though anybody anybody who's selling Look if we were all making art. For Art's sake we wouldn't need host it. We just get the pleasure and the full experience would be making the art for ourselves. But it's not. It's like what was that. Was it the moon six pence that was the story of Gauguin's roughly where he was like? You make art for Art's sake and that burn the canvases. Because the only thing he needed to do was make the art. He didn't need to show it he didn't need to sell it. He didn't care about people's reaction to it. He didn't care of it he didn't care about it as a commodity. But we're not talking about people who are making art for Art's sake. They might their initial reaction to making artists. They have creative need to fulfil but then that goes to another level which is like putting it there to have. It looked at and judged appreciated or not and sold. What did you think of besides here that that you know great outcomes from catastrophe that off the world who up until the one that was Dada and surrealism after World War? Two that was abstract expressionism react. I know that you'll save. You told you a favorite painting with some Asocial Mona Lisa with a moustache. Yes and allow Oak Yes. I can't save in French so it sounds like a pundits supposed to be but You know these audits were responding to disaster and I made incredible. Well changing works of art. Yes something could you imagine something similar happened after this? I'd like to imagine something happening after this. I wonder with all of our current laziness based on the screen like what that will look like so. I do believe something will happen. I don't know if I'll be able to connect to it because I it might be created with a medium that I have no connection to so again. Maybe you know this IPAD and these like Henson's that you get from apple and whatever joy like something will emerge from this. I'm not sure I'll be able to connect with the medium in which is created out of. I don't know I don't know it's an interesting. Not you're not just sean scandalized. People and I know scandal. Isn't that interesting that we could be people that the new Isis scandalise will? I hope so. We could be that generation. I wish someone would do something that would cause such a reaction in me. What have you seen? That causes a reaction. What have you seen or heard? Well I've certainly not been scandalised by anything. I mean I find things offensive but I don't find them. I find that offensive to my sense of morals taste but that's but then I come back and I say I'm judging and I don't want to be judged it's not my job so some you know and it's very hard to also not be hypocritical and judge like you can't like so so. I'm trying to not judge other people and other people's behavior and what works for them and all that so But it's quite hard because I like I said I'm not scared. I don't find anything scandalous. Just find some things repulsive which is good. Turn not so good. Well it's different. I think what it creates in me as this kind of desire to just disappear like like if this is what it looks like. I don't want to be a part of it. You know what I mean. So I don't think it's a stimulating sort of repulsion. But what what what has given you the most sort of Sucker why you've been at the most what you know the most reassuring You know the bomb the bomb sealer. So what did you what music business into? What what Ti. You Watch okay. So I haven't really been listening to music. I haven't really been listening to music. Actually it's first of all most of my day is spent on facetime or texting resuming lately. So so it's really the sound of my voice and the dogs drinking water or barking or happy nightmares. Whatever and So I haven't really been listening to things during the day I find I find? I like the quiet of the room. I really liked the quiet and I put the TV on at night. And sometimes I watch things. That are very interesting in sometimes. I watch things that are mindless if I need mindless TV. I go to Love Island UK. And if I want something challenging or something interesting and informative or clever or than people recommendations. In Princeton's Lana recommended a documentary called. Crip camp which I thought was amazing and she recommended a film called touch me not which was incredible to watch. And I've watched you know all the usual that everybody else's watched the tiger kings and the Hollywood's in all that stuff and But I don't usually put the TV on 'til dark. And I told you about deaths already. Yeah and I'm going to check that out. On Hulu. In America Yeah debs and you find a what deb's means the very last second which is very interesting I'm curious about You told me that you love dancing. There have been days where I've danced. Naked my bathroom at the you know there was one conversation I had early on. Actually it was on the facetime with long and it was so inspired me so much and you know I say I love dancing but I do. I've found that when I've danced. I really enjoy that energy. But I'm not like Lama Lana lives to go out dancing for days. At a time I mean she loves Berg Hine and she's living in Berlin with her wife and you know she lives to dance for days and days but I found her conversation that day or our conversation so uplifting I took off my clothes and I went into the bathroom and I was dancing around. I was listening to lay Rita Mitsuko that eighties hit Ma and I just kept playing it over and over again and I was dancing around and it felt so good. The release was incredible but but I don't regularly dance. I do listen to Philip Glass But that doesn't actually get me dancing but I'd love. I'd love the release. I mean I'm looking for a release right now. You know what do you think? Do you think you'll look back on this moment? God only knows I just want to get through it. Yeah I think I haven't been able to read a book which I signed kind of me too. I'm the same. I can't focus on it that ends. I wonder why that is. I think it's people the effects of this. I mean I've I have been reading some newsletters about mental health. You know what people don't understand is how phenomenally important mental health is and the effect of this quarantine on US psychologically and emotionally and physically and everything else and even though he thinks that we know what it feels like. I think there's a lot like I've tried to be on. I've tried to do this. I've tried to be conscious and aware and you know incite like used my insights to like kind of correct my behavior but I can't always do I just sometimes just can't seem to find the motivation or the focus. Even though I know it's what I'd like to be doing what I think would be a good thing for me to do. I just think extraordinary that we're living in a moment that nobody could ever predict it. I'm willing sort of. Everybody has seven indulgent end of days scenarios. And this is. This is one that just we never imagined. I think it's been an interesting when you talk about people just sliding back into this patent behavior when confronted by the implacability of something like nature here. And it's just so huge and you think about I I go back time to this The industrial of hundred years old at H. Is How many millions of years old and so we have out little antitheses government and then suddenly the huge corrective. There's a line I heard many years ago and I think it's very appropriate. If you WANNA make God Laugh. Tell Him Your plans or let's turn into isn't that he said something like that. Yeah well I think someone said it before John but it's okay but but but what is quote you gave me that. I loved about creativity just now and have said that we shall not die of reality. That's perfect you have to send that to attacks or something. I will absolutely I you one of the things. I thought that so one of the things that always been so thrilling to me about you as a designer is your curiosity and the way that you're able to turn a fascination with a single ride across into an entire world or this sort of incredible cinema of fashion show that that very few people have been able to capitalize on his successfully. What what what you find your must curious about at the moment. I'm curious to see what life will be like like you said I think I think I'm frightened by it. But but you know fear and excitement or kind of the same thing in a way So I'm afraid of what might be like but I'm also excited about what what adapting to life might bring you know like that. That's it so it is. It's a prospective thing. Isn't it like you know on the darkest days I fear it and then on the brightest days or when I have those lenses on that are clear? I'm like I'm looking forward to seeing how I can adapt to. What is you know and So so adapting and acceptance and sort of creating again but I don't I don't have anything specific in mind other than than like will. It could be an exciting moment to to to make things again. You know because it's it's like saying about creativity coming out of catastrophe that Human beings have some fundamental needs. And some of those fundamental needs. We have One of us is is one of the beauty of the world around us. You know that you know how many people talk about good song. The I've never like always singing like that before. We just never heard. Now we do and I just. I would hope that those experiences stay with people when I'm the I'm just again. I'm I'm afraid I'm afraid that that's very beautiful vision. And and it's a lovely thought but I'm afraid that that we're too far along the road of destroy destroying ourselves making ourselves for that to be possible. I I really am. I mean I think that business is like those birds get drowned out by business all the time and we'll be again. I guess I'm afraid I'm afraid of that. But but then but then again if something is learned if something shifts if something changes than that may be. I don't know it's it's so it's too early in this process to know. I say this is the end of the beginning. I mean we're we're when we're even not even halfway down this road we have love. I don't even close to halfway. I think this is just like and the fact that people could even think like. Oh thank God. Two months this is hundreds of years in the making two months is not going to turn the lights back on. Guys it's like it's so illogical the thought process of like right so we've had to be locked up for two months. Let's just turn the lights back on. Go back to the way we were. It's like it's more onic. I did ironic. Now it's more on it. I don't know we have leaders that are running businesses not countries and that we have we. We have leaders who are cynics and analysts lips and lions as well which is no but so there is an answer revolution. I'm glad that this way ahead of me on this one because I've been saying that for the while well dives with. That was what we talked about him. You and I did talk about this over the summer in the end of years and years. The mother says that fantastic speech. She makes that dinner table. Which says you're all to blame. What are you going to do about it? And they caused this revolution. They fight back. And it's like I think you need an upheaval or revolution of such enormity. To Change Anything. There would need to be a full on revolution in order for this to change now. I don't know that I've got the energy to lead that revolution nor the desire but I certainly would sign up for it. You know the fact is that revolutions come a lot of the times out the spring from necessity and the needs of billions are going to be pretty extreme over the next to the while at amyloid honestly dynasty hat or it won't be some I mean. Obviously what I think would be civil unrest at some points. I don't see how they want and -solutely then we have a privilege recondition existing. Listen to us but you know again. We're as I I. I am listening to us and I'm speaking to you and I'm speaking to you from my very comfortable. Hotel Room dressed nicely. After shower and again I keep thinking about the conversations about privilege and when I think about civil unrest in people who are going to be without. I think I speak. I don't I don't WanNa be that person either. I don't WanNa be that guy who talks about what will be in this place of privilege. I don't know I didn't know how to be another person than what than who I am but I'm sitting in a comfortable hotel room and I'm saying I'd like to make a difference and I'd like to make a change and I'd like to be a part of this revolution but I'm quite easy to say in this in this situation and I and and there's so much going on that is ages and racist and sexist and everything else and all the other shit that's going on and then throwing Miss Rona and you're with fucked just what you feel your role. Your responsibility is ridiculous. And I feel that what I can do is like you said I can only do. I can take care of myself and by taking care of myself I can then be of service to someone else and whatever way that means I is it varies. I know that if I'm good to myself I take care of my health. I take care of my mental health than I can contribute to the benevolence of this world. Right I have a choice every morning. I can take care of myself and be of use or I could lie in bed and and contribute to the garbage. You know what I mean. So if each person collectively could do one small thing by taking care of their self in some small way than they could maybe contribute to the good of this world maybe they could hear the birds and maybe they could smile at somebody else. It could be kind to someone else. Maybe could be generous to somebody else. You know. Then I mean we'd be in a huge lead better place than we are right now. You know that there is. There is a lot of that going on right now. There's I was reading a big big a huge article Lindy And again yesterday about aid and about basically grassroots support things you know helping people everywhere around the world and you get a sense of how change can come you know. It's it's quite inspiring ignoring the lack of leadership from those listed cynical lying amended that we talked about the people doing things for themselves helping people helping helping the people in this street people in the next house lawyer if people can if enough people hang on feeling that they get from that and this this. This is a huge. This is a huge crisis that confronts everybody if enough people hang onto that feeling of the positivity that that outreach that they manage to commit to this was going on you know that is a revolution of a kind. Yes it's true but it has to be collective you see. The problem is when it when you're outnumbered it. It still works. There's no reason. Listen whether I'm in the majority or the minority I'm GonNa continue to take care of myself and do nice things for other people. That is what I am going to do. I'm committed to that now whether people see what I'm doing is being very kind of kindness. Their form of charity or their form of That's another story so people will judge how I behave no matter what but whether I'm in the minority the majority it doesn't matter. I know I'm good with myself right now because I know that I'm a good person. A kind person and a generous person and a creative person and I will continue to give as long as I'm healthy enough to be able to and and that's that's that's what all do and I think if it is collected and if it's on such a scale it's like I think of that Diet Over that Coca Cola commercial. I'd like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony. It's so corny. But it's so perfect like if everybody just raised voices in if everybody opened their with and if everybody did like it would just be. The sound of. That would just be so amazing. But if you've got half the world or more than half the world's sitting saying like Oh let those queers saying it's not gonNa work but one the the the the way Ford you've got you've done throughout your careers. Collaboration competition and we need we need to collaborate. And this is what's coming out of this. I think is that people realize there is strength. Collaboration that at isolation is at `isolation disenfranchising collaborations. No Man is an island. Each man's death diminishes me. Right is something to that effect. Never send to know for whom the bell tolls to President. Now you said something that so I guess bothered me when we talked last time you said documentation of what you do is not important to you and I sense even now. Even though you're not thanking God i WanNa keep blue for whom people will be inspired and the future of people who will will understand why you did what you did and why it was important. I don't know I think I think I probably was feeling very negative day. Were maybe I was feeling like what's new? What for sorry nervous about your speech at the wedding. Yes I will as I was but I kind of feel like maybe again. Being present isn't about receiving information you know like and so maybe it is an important to document things like maybe being present and just experiencing things rather than experiencing things experiencing things with the weight of what information we've received. Maybe that trouble like maybe getting older. In the more information you receive the more you learn actually prevents you from maintaining this night eva to say that that is like intra a child has has less experience in his therefore able to sort of be present and respond naturally things and with the weight of information and Experience. They become like burdens. And so maybe you know again this idea of being present. You need to be uninformed. I don't know I don't know I have no idea I've no it's A. That's the ignorance is bliss argument. Well yeah it is. The ignorance is bliss argument. Yes absolutely and I think of children responding to a good story. A and how children learn three stories. And how you've true that's true. Of course it's true. What would be your ideal scenario now? Oh God I don. I haven't really thought about what would be ideal. I mean I'm trying really to live in the moment and I'm not really thinking much about the future or I'm trying not to think about the future because in this moment I have faith that everything will be some version of okay you know. And that's that's GonNa keep me from staying in bed. You know what I mean. I'm going to get up as long as I have face and if I have gratitude and if I have faith have to be present because outside of the present that's where fear gets and so I'm just I'm I'm really trying not to go there to live in your house by the sea. I hope so I hope so. The perfect the perfect source and Ali in a way. I hope so I mean that's that is that is I think again. That's if I could write my story that's how I'd like to end is in that house a year amounting yes but if I could write my story I mean Including the end. I'd like the end to be the last page of that book. You know as seen in the movie where I finished writing and the book closes and I'm sitting there and it's silhouette of my back looking out water looking at Greenwich Connecticut from this Beautiful Frank. Lloyd Wright House in the Book Closes and the movie ends and the Glass Soundtrack plays and camera pans out the most beautiful sunset. You've ever stay. Yeah I'd want to be as Cliche as humanly possible. Yes thank you very much mark. It's wonderful cameras always a pleasure to talk to. You seem very Hertzel. If you've enjoyed this episode don't forget to subscribe give a rating and you might be interested in joining the business of fashion global membership community. 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