20 Burst results for "Cameron Winkle Voss"
"cameron winklevoss" Discussed on Bankless
"And not be profitable. Well, it turns out we all thought the block is not profitable. I thought everyone was like, oh, the block, company turns out they're not profitable. Yeah. Anyway. Imagine having more profitable media. All right, we'll earn get their money. Their users money back. That's the big question. And I know Cameron winklevoss and Lincoln was twins, have been all up in this. This is Cameron winklevoss with an update on urn. This is the big question. $900 million. Almost a $1 billion of retail funds in Gemini earned will investors well, I guess investors will people get their money back, David. So TBD. So quote from Cameron winklevoss is that Gemini genesis bankruptcy does not insulate Barry DCG or any other wrongdoers from accountability said Cameron winklevoss. Jim and I was preparing to take legal action against Barry DCG and others for the fraud. So the idea here is that they are saying that fraudulent activity happened, it's outside of genesis. It's very in all of DCG. And so even if genesis can't make Gemini urn, customers whole, we are going to sue DCG and Barry silbert for fraud to get the rest of the money back. With the winklevoss twins continue to be coming in very hot with accusations of fraud. And we will only be able to tell what the truth is after everyone has their day in court. But Gemini twins coming in very hot. This is interesting. I just ran the math here. So $900 million divided by 340,000 earn users according to Cameron and winklevoss. It's about an average of 2600 per user. So I mean, these are smaller retail types of accounts. And that could be somebody's savings. They're crypto savings. Hopefully not their life savings don't invest more than you can afford to lose and certainly don't lend it out to a crypto lender. Gemini laid off 10% of staff amid troubles. Which, by the way, is not a lot. Compared to cracking just did 20 minutes. Is there a third round of layoffs in the last 8 months? But like 10% is a relatively normal, especially when other web two companies are laying off similar totally. Like Google just didn't massively a coinbase is done playing on this. All right, well, we're going to continue to talk about this as it comes up, but we got more. The SEC ban hammer, what are they doing? SEC charges Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang with defrauding investors in FTX, absolutely no surprise there. In the press release, it's charged Caroline Ellison manipulated the price of FTT by purchasing large quantities on the open market to prop up the price. Again, which was the collateral that much of Alameda and FTX used to borrow with. Overstated the value of the collateral on the balance sheet led to all of these explosion at FTX and over a crazy amount of risk exposure. The complaint stated that Wang created the FTX back door, allowing Alameda to divert FTX customers funds and Ellison used misappropriate FTX customer Friends for Alameda's trading strategy. I think as these people go through the process of being in court, we're going to find out how much did SPF actually know because he claims that he had no idea that Gary Wang had the back door between Alameda and FTX. How could he know? How could he have known that? His exchange and his prop trading desk, having a back door with each other. How could he have known? Yeah, I just impossible to know, really. You got to feel for the guy. Caroline Ellison was the former CEO of Alameda, right? Yes. And then Gary Wang was the CTO of FTX. Correct. Basically operating is the same. Yes, yes.
"cameron winklevoss" Discussed on The Breakdown
"To genesis, we left on Friday with the news that genesis global capital had filed for bankruptcy. The troubled crypto lender will now enter restructuring in order to find a way to repay creditors after the calamitous events of last year came to a head. In the first day motion filed with the bankruptcy court on Friday, genesis claimed that the firm had $5.1 billion in outstanding liabilities. They noted that although the collapse of FTX had affected them, their liquidity crisis was more to do with the run on deposits that ensured afterwards. At that time, customers demanded repayment of $827 million in loans, forcing the lending unit of genesis to halt withdrawals. Referring to the digital currency group, which is the parent company of both genesis as well as coin desk, the filings said the DCG was unable to backstop genesis during the run. Quote, at the same time, genesis corporate parent digital currency group or DCG and its very subsidiaries were also impacted by the market turmoil and did not have the liquidity to pay back the company on certain loans, adding pressure to the debtor's balance sheets. First day filings also showed that Gemini was by far the largest creditor of genesis with more than $700 million owed. a week's long public relations war, Gemini cofounder Cameron winklevoss threatened to sue DCG and CEO Barry silbert, if genesis fails to put forward a quote fair offer to creditors. In a nod to the acrimony among creditors, these Friday filings characterize the bankruptcy proceedings as a way to quote incentivize all stakeholders to move expeditiously towards a consensual resolution that avoids the costs and uncertainties of litigation. Now, genesis will continue to operate most of its non lending businesses, including derivatives, trading and custody, all of which are held in separate legal entities. There was also some confusion around the initial creditor list, which listed a multiple of crypto firms as un collateralized creditors. On Friday, as I think I mentioned, crypto trading firm Cumberland clarified that although it was listed as being owed 18 million by genesis, their inclusion in the creditor's list was quote misleading and incorrect information. They explained that in November, Cumberland held $18 million in loan crypto, which was fully collateralized by cash held by genesis, but on November 16th, the date when genesis halted withdrawals, Cumberland notified genesis that they were surrendering their cash and liquidating the loan crypto in accordance with the terms of their agreement. This liquidation process left an outstanding balance of around $46,000 owed to Cumberland rather than the 18 million shown in the creditors list.
"cameron winklevoss" Discussed on CoinDesk Podcast Network
"At the top slot. Will be has confirmed after some speculation that Justin's son, the behind Tron, is indeed the head of the exchange. She's now the CEO. And this comes just a little bile after about capital management, which was a Hong Kong based investment company that it suspected sun was a major funder of became a majority stakeholder in will be. But before this confirmation, a statement from hobby, it wasn't confirmed that son was actually, in fact, in charge of the exchange. And as a part of being in charge of the exchange, he's taking aim at rat trading, which is a kind of insider trading thing that we'll talk about a little bit later. But yeah, this is just really interesting because beyond giving more power, it seems to Justin sun it comes after a bunch of denials from him straight up that he was behind this takeover or leading will be in any way. So actually, let's toss to Adam, maybe you can talk to us a little bit about this whole rat trading element that they're trying to go after with this takeover. Yeah. Thanks for that, Sam. Yeah, if you're watching or listening out there and you've never heard of rat trading before, don't feel bad. None of us had actually heard of it before, either. It does not appear to be a phenomenon that at least gets talked about in the U.S. and it is something that you see more commonly over in Asia. As was mentioned, it's kind of a form of insider trading, but it's a little more complex than that. Basically, imagine this, you have control of over a large amount of money that isn't for the purpose of you getting rich. Take some of money that you do actually have, or you get a friend to take some money that they have. And you have them buy a stock or you have them buy a token or something like that. You know, you buy a $1 million of it at 50 bucks or something, right? Then you by nature of your control over other funds that are not intended for your enrichment, but because you have discretion over what to do with them, decide independently that you're going to invest a $100 million into that same investment right after you bought it on the side. That then pushes up the price to maybe double where it was before. You then tell your friend to sell the $1 million worth of the token that they bought. Now it's worth $2 million, because the price is doubled and now your company can either sell or it can keep it in a kind of doesn't matter because hey you already just made a $1 million off that trade. So the kind of accusation here or at least the story that we're getting so far leaked out has a lot to do with tokens from the will be ecosystem that have apparently had people trading them in ways that the exchange is now claiming generated an abnormal amount of profit which strikes me as a little bit of a funny terminology. But we can leave that there. And so that's kind of the basics of it from what we can understand. It strikes me that it's kind of an actually odd thing and almost a non sequitur to kind of toss into this release announcing this thing. And that if anything, the idea that you're stopping it implies it was happening in the first place and it's the happening in the first place part that really seems like that's the problem. So it's kind of just a weird angle to this story. But again, it's a Justin sun story. And I really have yet to experience one of those that doesn't have kind of odd elements to it that don't really make a ton of sense. So we'll toss it over to you for your thoughts. As always, some interesting and odd angle we're not expecting when Justin stone comes into the picture, right? So it's very on brand for the king of Tron. When I actually looked up rat trading the first headline I saw was from a Business Insider article from 2014 talking about actual rats trading four X so this is a little bit different. And according to the article here, we see that Kobe is worried about a bunch of accounts trading at abnormal times of the day, having lots of different profits. And now they're going to clamp down on those traders. So hopefully they're targeting the correct people that are actually misusing the platform and not someone who's just really good at timing the market because that could be of course the case. Add them to your point, this is a little weird because there wasn't a lot of recognition that Justin and bakwa be there had been rumors and there have been articles about it. We basically knew that he had done that, but it wasn't anything essentially forthcoming. And now we have this story and then stapled to it is some story about rat trading that everyone has to look up and understand what it means. And I'm wondering why they did that. Either way, I guess it doesn't matter too much. We now know Justin son is operating Kobe as we long suspected. And for him to step into that ecosystem is really interesting, right? Because they've just been what we've been very important in the past, but it has not been important lately because they've lost a lot of their trading volume to a lot of other firms, specifically binance. And now going to bear market, we have this interesting time for them to reclaim some territory. Maybe they are able to gobble up some more traders, but Justin sun's track record doesn't really work in his favor for exchanges, right? He also purchased poloniex that hasn't gone anywhere hot. A lot of times he's exchanges, just like we talked about yesterday with FTX. After they've had their time in the sun, they settle down and then they disappear after a while. There's only a few exchanges that have managed to keep up the hype and stay strong, mostly binance and coinbase at this point. So we'll see what happens with it. I'm expecting more from Justin stone, of course, he's always on the show for some reason or another. Sam over two. Yeah, a couple of quick points. So why did they staple this rat trading thing onto it? To me, it's just clearly a PR move. Again, we talk broadly about Justin's son, but just Google him. There's some really great, quite as reporting, but also like the verge, it's some great reporting on him. He is by no means an uncontroversial figure. He's been accused of stuff that maybe it's not quote unquote rat trading, but very similar looking maneuvers. So the way that I see this is, if he is going to become the leader of this exchange and even larger a force in this ecosystem, he needs to seem like if he's going to be the dictator, he's got to be benevolent and this is his PR pitch to that point. Adam, let's go to you. I can't not bring up the fact that every single time we talk about Justin sun it's because he's either threatening to spend money, claiming he spent money actually spent money or something like that. And you got to remember that Justin son didn't start off this journey as a billionaire. He got that because Tron did as far as I can tell that's where he made his money from from the initial sale of that. And so again, it's just this weird thing where does anybody actually know if Justin sun is actually competent? Does anybody actually know if he's actually accomplished anything that we would consider to be productive or helpful? I really don't know. Anyways, we don't have time to discuss it today. We'll back to you. Yeah, that's a show.
"cameron winklevoss" Discussed on CoinDesk Podcast Network
"And that kind of says that this is something that people have been thinking about anticipating for quite a while. And so it's not like it actually comes as a negative surprise. The fact that it's no longer a thing we have to anticipate that we have to worry about markets at least for the moment seem to have taken this as a more positive sign than a negative sign. If just because it was so expected, will back over to you. Yeah, I want to bring up the story that you mentioned a few minutes ago now that we have lower thirds for it, the genesis is actually claiming a $5.1 billion in liabilities according to their new interim CEO. Of course they have that leadership shuffle back in the summer when the issues that genesis first came to light and then of course they had the second misstep with the collapse of FTX. They lost about a 100 million plus dollars on the FTX platform and then they also had a lot of loan originations out to almeda that seemed to have gone into thin air. But this is a pretty interesting filing. This is larger than we first thought. And if you go back to other filings, we know from earlier this year, when you have that form that you're filing for chapter 11 bankruptcy, you say them a creditors in a wide range of wide swath because you just have a few boxes to check off and then you also have the liabilities and it's typically between one and $10 billion is what we've seen. And now we have like a little bit more granularity on what these liabilities are. And this is a lot of money, $5.1 billion, just put that in perspective. I mean, this was the total market gap for Bitcoin, not too long ago. And right now, Bitcoin's market cap I believe is around $300 billion. It might have changed with the price movements recently, but this is a lot of money that is just gone like where people are going to find this going to throw back over to Sam. We talked before about this fairfax county Virginia pension fund that was exposed to the genesis bankruptcy. We also know there was an article that coined us put up today from Jamie Carly about how Cumberland and which is a big trading desk in the crypto world. They are apparently according to the genesis filing out $18 million in terms of their claim against the firm, but now they're saying they being Cumberland that the bankruptcy filing was misleading with incorrect information. They tweeted something out about this and I'm sure we'll hear a bunch more. They want to make it look like their exposure was smaller than it was reported in the filing. But I do think that this kind of gives us a launching off point to talk about something that I think we do have as a benefit of the way in which this bankruptcy process all bankruptcies are different has gone so far, which is that we actually not only, as we've talked about, have seen the size of the assets or the creditor group that is out in terms of $3.5 billion or something, but we also see the top 50 creditors, sorry, our O $3.5 billion. We don't only see that that number of 50, but we see their names. And that's not actually something that we see in every single filing. It has to do with the type of bankruptcy it is. It has to do with the court, the jurisdiction, something that we haven't seen in FTX, and there's a lot of news organizations. I think that coin desk entered in entered as part of licensing challenge to get FTX to disclose its top creditors, but anyway, this is all to say that I think one of the advantages that we have here with genesis is we do get to see that, for example, a pension fund was exposed. This is something that we have not seen yet when it comes to FTX. And so the contagion effect is a lot easier to measure, I guess, in this case. So for me, one side note to this is that this is good evidence for why some of those disclosures are helpful. Yeah, so I think a bunch of things to say here, the first is that so will you said that there's a $5.1 billion hole as far as liabilities. We don't know how many assets they have. So I feel like it's not really safe to say at this point that that's how big the hole is. That's how big the number is that they owe to their folks, but that doesn't necessarily mean that that's what the problem is. We might find the problem is a $2 billion problem. Still a gigantic problem. Again, the scale of the thing is hard to kind of wrap your head around, but it is, again, pretty massive and we continue to see this from these really large centralized companies. The other thing that I think is important to note is that the reason why we keep seeing these issues is partly because of the interconnectedness, but also partly because of this global hunt for yields that basically central banks have kind of shuttled everyone. Down over the course of the last dozen years or so, we're basically by artificially depressing interest rates. You kind of take away the ability to have safe bets where it's like, hey, I'm keeping my money in the bank, I'm earning 5% interest on it per year, and that was a reality back maybe 20 years ago. It's not a reality today. In anything other than very risky spaces. And I think that that also then speaks to the pension fund question, which is, you know, you look at a pension fund like the fairfax county one and I believe it's a multi-billion dollar fund. I think that they have more than $5 billion of assets under management. So $35 million is not a big bet for them. And even if they lose all of it, it's not going to hurt them much. But it speaks to the broader problem that exists when you tamper with monetary policy in ways that central banks and governments have been doing for the last dozen or so years, where you basically remove the opportunity to have safe return that can be low because that's what pension funds are designed to do.
"cameron winklevoss" Discussed on The Decrypt Daily: Bitcoin & Cryptocurrency News Podcast
"Cents up from its all time low in December 30th of 82 cents. Why are people aping into FTT? Well, it looks as though the CEO John J ray the third reiterated that he's thinking about relaunching the exchange. Now is that a good idea? Will they have trust will people use it probably? Probably. But as Tim Copeland poses on Twitter, crypto traders in 2026, so I just got rugged by FTX two. How did I not see that coming? I think that's pretty accurate. Moving into the headlines today, the top headline, of course, is going to be genesis, because they announced that they're filing for chapter 11 bankruptcy, and that happened late last night. It has more than a $150 million cash in hand, which is not enough to pay back anybody, but they say they have enough liquidity to fund operations during the restructuring process. Cameron winklevoss and Gemini obviously are owed the most money. I'll tell you who owes what in a minute because it's all public now since they filed for bankruptcy. But he tweeted this. Earn update. This evening, genesis global filed for bankruptcy under chapter 11. This is a crucial step towards being able to recover your assets. While we've been working around the clock to negotiate acceptable solutions, Barry silbert and DCG continued to refuse to offer creditors a fair deal. The good news is, is that by seeking protection of the bankruptcy court, genesis will be subject to judicial oversight. It will be required to provide discovery and let everybody know how it got to this point. Crucially, the decision to put genesis into bankruptcy does not insulate very or DCG in any other wrongdoers from accountability. We have been preparing to take directly or action against Barry DCG and others who share responsibility for the fraud that caused the harm of 340,000 earned users and others do by genesis and his accomplices. Unless Barry and DCG comes to their senses and make a fair offer to the creditors, we will be filing a lawsuit against Barry and DCG eminently. Meanwhile, we'll use every tool available to us in the bankruptcy court to maximize recovery for earn users in any other parties within the bankruptcy courts jurisdiction. We also believe that in addition to owning creditors, all of their money back, genesis, DCG and Barry owe them an explanation. Bankruptcy court provides a much needed form to let that happen. Sunlight is the best disinfectant. Oh, shots fired. This marks the important milestone in our efforts to help earn users get their asses back. Doing so remains our highest priority. And again, that was a tweet from Cameron winklevoss. So who are the 50 largest creditors when I'm not going to go through all of them, but obviously we know that Gemini is the largest with $765.9 million unclaimed sitting there, unaccessible, Miranda corp is owed a 151.5 million. Moon alpha financial services is a 150 million. Quinn incident capital, international, a 112 million. And the list goes on and on. Again, link is in the show notes. If you want to see all of the creditors and who is owed what? These are the top 50 creditors that are filed with the bankruptcy proceeding. The Ethereum Shanghai update was an update to the Ethereum network that promises a way to deliver $25 billion worth of F that has been pledged to the staking program. So what is that going to happen? Well, that's the problem. The Ethereum core devs can agree when the update should be implemented. Okay, so let's just do some history. Let's do some math together. December 2020 users were able to state their F and earn rewards. It was something like 4%. What is it a big deal back in December? I mean, the price of F was like $130. So 32 F to stake was like $4160. However, you guys remember a bull run happened. The price of eth shot up to $4900. That's around $156,000. Just sitting there. You can't get it. I mean, imagine that, just sitting there waiting for this Shanghai update to come out. So you can have your FX that was once worth a $156,000. I mean, even today, that 32 F is 50 K in the market is shaky at best, so I can tell you that anybody unless they're rolling in dough and they really don't care. Anybody who staked this F for the greater good probably wants to see the F back in their wallet, or maybe wants to see a little bit of games coming from that. I mean, to be honest, that's why I didn't mistake. I was like, why would I earn 4% when we could be walking into a bowl? And we could see all time highs for Ethereum. Back then, I was thinking 1500, $2000 Ethereum. But when you saw $4900 Ethereum, and you can't access it, I can tell you, people are probably stressing out. Ransomware attacks are down a little over 40.5%. According to a new report from chain analysis, the report released yesterday says that ransomware attackers extorted at least $456.8 million in funds in 2022. But that's compared to $765.6 million in 2021. China analysis says that doesn't mean a tax are down. They said actually the decline is more so probably because the victims of the attacks don't want to pay. They're just like, we're not paying you. Take the data, shut down the computers, I'll buy a new computer. I'm not paying you. So, when these people take this money, they get this ransomware, they give these Bitcoin Ethereum or whatever they're transferring over, where does it go? Well, most of the funds go to mainstream exchanges. In 2021, 39.3% of those stolen funds went to mainstream exchanges, and that's up now in 2022 to 48.3%. And how are those funds getting there? Well, they're going through mixing services. That increase from 11.6% up to 15%. Chain analysis says that the actual totals of ransomware is probably much higher. Because they just can't find it all. However, because of this sample size, because of this research, it looks as though ransomware in general, the rants were being paid. The amount being paid is down significantly. Next so they are settling with the SEC and they agreed to pay $22.5 million in penalty and an additional $22.5 million to settle with state regulators. This is because their crypto lend program called earn interest was an unregistered security. The director of the SEC's division of enforcement said this, we are not concerned with the labels put on the offerings. And he's referring to earn interest. However, they're concerned with the economic realities. The director continue to say, if you're offering or selling projects that constitute securities under a well established law and legal precedent, then no matter what you call those products, your subject to those laws and we expect compliance. Again, my prediction for 23 we're not going to see much legislation come through, but this right here is setting precedent. So, if anybody is doing the same thing that nexo is doing, you better stop, because they're going to come get you, you're going to pay a fine, you're going to shut you down. And finally, Robinhood is finally entering the software wallet game, the company today launched a Robin Hood wallet. It's a smartphone app that allows users to swap and transfer crypto, and also view your NFTs. This app is being rolled out to over a million users on the wait list, but it's doing it slowly. It's only offering it to iOS users, Android support will come later this year. The Robinhood wallet uses polygon and they just add a support for Ethereum. Now you're probably saying, well, they have a crypto wallet. Well, this is a little different because their original wallet was just allowed to transfer funds and on and off the platform. So it was basically, hey, you could just transfer them out. It wasn't really a wallet. This wallet is acting more like a meta mask or a phantom wallet. So, once I get my hands on it, I'm going to check it out. If you check it out, please email me, Matthew Aaron at the crypto CEO. My email is in the show notes, tell me what you think of it. Oh, by the way, speaking of wallets, one inch, they're expanding their ecosystem of products, and they're going to launch their own multi coin hardware wallet. The one inch hardware wallet will be a roughly the size of a bank card weighing about 70 grams and four millimeters thick. It's going to set you back around 179 to $199. Thank you for listening to this episode of the decrypt daily. My name is Matthew demer. Don't forget to come back tomorrow for our long form GM podcast with editor in chief Dan Roberts and the decrypt editorial team. And of course, an amazing guest. Don't forget to go to Apple podcasts, like subscribe, share, leave us 5 stars, and an amazing comment. And until tomorrow, happy, huddling everyone.
Would a Genesis Bankruptcy Actually Be Good for Crypto?
"All right, Friends, we are back with another discussion of 2022 cleanup, although today's news I would argue could be a heck of a lot more bullish than it might seem at first. So of course, one of the biggest outstanding questions after the fall of FTX has been how far the fallout and contagion might go. And fallout there has been. For example, there has been a significant chilling of the relationship between the crypto industry and the Washington D.C. establishment. However, frankly, the main short term thing that people have been worried about is whether the collapse of FTX would cause other crypto institutional failures. In that context, the biggest spotlight has been on genesis and its parent company digital currency group or DCG. I say this every time, but DCG is also the parent group of coin desk. Now, genesis was hit hard in the three arrows capital collapse. They lost about 2.4 billion in loans out to the hedge fund, and ultimately ended up their biggest creditor with a $1.2 billion claim after liquidating collateral. That claim was eventually moved over to the books of DCG, a move which would later complicate DCG other liquidity issues. When FTX went under, genesis announced that they had something like 175 million trapped there, but it seemed there were bigger issues than that. That same week, genesis lending halted withdrawals, which was problematic both for their main customer base, as well as for the users of Gemini urn, which was crypto exchange Gemini's yield feature. Gemini users have about $900 million or so stuck on genesis as we record. And since then, the tension around the situation has done nothing but grow. Over the past few weeks, there has been an ever escalating war of words. Cameron winklevoss the co CEO of Gemini has published two separate open letters around the case. The first being directed to DCG CEO Barry silbert, accusing him of bad faith stall tactics, and asking him to meet with them to find a resolution, and the second being to the DCG board. Basically demanding that silbert be removed from the CEO role.
Geminis Cameron Winklevoss Calls for Barry Silberts Ousting as DCG CEO
"2 p.m. Tuesday, January 10th, 2023. Gemini's Cameron winklevoss calls for Barry silbert's ousting as DCG CEO Jim and I made a new move against digital currency group today when cofounder Cameron winklevoss called on the company's board to fire Barry silbert. A campaign of lies the tension between
"cameron winklevoss" Discussed on Unchained
"Back to my conversation with Karim. So another thing which you kind of alluded to, but I want to unpack it a little bit more is this terminology of current. Because both Cameron and very silver have been using it and potentially different ways. I'm just going to quote from the letter that Cameron winklevoss sent, he says, first, as a matter of generally accepted accounting principles and common understanding, a current asset refers to cash, cash equivalents, or other assets that can be exchanged into cash within one year. And promissory note with a principle repayment due in ten years falls outside the definition of a current asset by a country mile. Now, you might have seen also that after we saw then that silver responded with the letter, which said that the promise where you know it was not callable, Ryan silk is of masari positive theory that silver might be using a different definition of current. And said that you can use the word current also to say this borrower is meeting all payments on its loans, although as Ramallah, you pointed out, in this case, there's only one payment, which will be the one in 2032. So do you think that that's what's going on here? And if so, is that kind of the obfuscation that Cameron wants to talk about? I agree with Cameron regards to how an accounting practices current means something that is within a year. I've reread the tweets that berries put out and at least the way I interpret it. I do think that what he's trying to say is that DCG is current, which basically means he's the loan is performing, but I mean, I think it's pretty clear that this has various interpretations and I don't think rahm is necessarily wrong. I just think here just a matter of how you interpret what's being said, but the way I looked at it is all he was trying to really communicate was that DCG is not currently late on any payments due to genesis and basically say that DCG currently is fun. Oh, okay, so he's not saying that that should be counted as a current asset on genesis books. I would not. I would not interpret it that way. At least at least the way I kind of look at it. But I think the reality is that anything on Twitter can be kind of misconstrued in different ways, but I would imagine that Barry's also advised not to put out something that would be misleading and I think that would definitely be misleading because there's nothing about a ten year promissory note that makes it current. Okay, okay, so it seems like he's using a different definition. I think we're picking here to be, to be honest. And that's really it. But I mean, don't you think that that's exactly what's going on behind the scenes before they post all of these that the lawyers are combing over everything and I mean, I feel like parsing the language is probably useful. No, I think you're absolutely right. It's hard to really gauge some of the motivations and how people are thinking about it. I'm just kind of giving kind of the way I would look at it as somebody who's going to worked in loans before is that using the terminology current on loans is fairly common in terms of interpreting that
DCG Responds As Gemini Accuses Company of Fraud
"Let's get into the meat of today. And that is, of course, the DCG drama continuing. I mentioned on yesterday's show as I was finishing up recording that Cameron winklevoss had just dropped another open letter. His second in two weeks. That letter ended up eliciting the longest response we've seen for months from DCG and its CEO Barry silbert. At this point, I don't think many of you need too much background, but the ultra TLDR of the situation is that genesis is a subsidiary of the digital currency group DCG, who also own coin desk, by the way. And genesis has both a lending business and a trading business. The lending business in particular had a rough 2022. They were the biggest creditor of three arrows capital after it collapsed, which led to DCG taking over that claim and the genesis CEO resigning. Genesis also had a $175 million or so stuck on FTX, and in the wake of the FTX collapse, genesis lending halted withdrawals. Among other things, that has trapped around $900 million that was part of Gemini's earn program, which is their consumer yield program. As time has gone on, Gemini's customers have been getting angrier and angrier and so too the public pressure from Gemini on genesis and DCG is also ratcheted up. Last week, that took the form of an open letter asking for Barry silbert and DCG to come to the table by January 8th, which was Sunday. That's the letter in which Cameron winklevoss accused silbert of bad faith stall tactics his words. In the wake of that, there was a bit of back and forth on Twitter, but nothing really more than that. Then of course, on Friday, Bloomberg reported that DCG and genesis were being investigated by the Department of Justice, which took the situation up a couple more notches. Well, yesterday on Tuesday, Cameron winklevoss dropped a second open letter and this one was even more accusatory than the first. This one was directed not to bury silbert, but to the entire digital currency group board. The big theme of that letter was that this was no longer just a public disagreement between business partners, but an accusation of fraud. The letter kicks off, I am writing to let you know that Gemini and more than 340,000 earn users have been defrauded by genesis global capital. Together with its parent company digital currency group, its founder and CEO Barry silbert, and other key personnel.
"cameron winklevoss" Discussed on Crypto Banter
"And I think it's very, very, very good. I think we want exchange consolidation in crypto. Why? Because we don't want binance to be the one big exchange in crypto. We don't want one big centralized player that can fail. As much as we love binance and I love binance and we love CVC, we want a few large centralized players if we're going to have centralized players. And I think so one of my better. One of my bits here is coinbase. I'm buying coinbase. I'm not buying it today because I think that it's gone back up to 40 bucks. But for me, anywhere around 34, 35 bucks, I think coinbase is something that I'm adding to my portfolio. And specifically, as I said, because you can see that there is money flowing out of binance. Not as much as the fed. So if you look at the fed, yeah, you get well try who's a fed account decision, 12 billion gone from binance in the last couple of days. I did look at this. About 6 or $7 billion has flowed out of binance. But as I said, I think that that's quite healthy because what we want is we actually want a large number of centralized players in control. We don't want one single point of failure because imagine what happens if finance goes down. Imagine if I don't think that the arsenic is balanced, but what if it's something is wrong in balance? So what if the Department of Justice or the SEC goes off then? Then what happens? Well, then we have another catastrophic collapse in crypto. And that's something that we don't really, really want. So that is, I guess, the big crypto news stories of the day. I mean, I love this little Cameron winklevoss asking for Barry silbert. To step down as CEO of his own company. I mean, I think it's getting really ugly and remember, these guys were absolutely transient. Let's just quickly check the shirt comments. The girls are saying the girls are saying sexy. Okay.
"cameron winklevoss" Discussed on The Bitboy Crypto Podcast
"What is Wakanda hug? You've never seen Black Panther? No, I haven't. You uncultured swine. Rib chatbot. Unacceptable. Ripped Chad goes. Rocco take him off the camera. He doesn't deserve it. Ended. Black Panther after chabo has been done. Man, I was a little okay. I was just going to ask you, but I don't want to veer too much off topic. I was a little because you Robin for going off topic. You guys go off topic enough, so I try to rein everything back in. But now I'm going off topic. I was a little underwhelmed. On Black Panther two, I expected something with Chadwick in there. I know he was there for half the filming. Rest his soul. He passed away from cancer. But you got kids, so I know you probably saw. I haven't seen a second one. You haven't seen the second one? No, I book out the second one. I'm going to see. Okay. Sorry. I'm going to see it. Yeah, Chadwick was such an, you got to respect, at some point, when you got a celebrity, the dice is very sad. Your honor, your honor, the memory, and you just move on. You don't need a second Black Panther. That's not what Fast & Furious did at Paul Walker died at 20 more.
"cameron winklevoss" Discussed on The Bitboy Crypto Podcast
"And I'm kind of a crackhead. I'm sorry. What did I let you talk about that leverage? Bitcoin. Let me ask you, what are your thoughts on Mark Cuban? You know, I go back and forth on him. Does he like Kevin O'Leary? I don't know, but if you like Kevin O'Leary's camera, period. Well, they're on the same show, the Shark Tank. Yeah, well, we're on the same show. And I'm someone else. He also was promoting Voyager. I mean, I don't think he knew anything. You can't blame anybody for throwing Celsius Voyager FTX. None of us knew what was going to be. But it has put a bad taste people's mouth. Yeah, of course. Well, Mark Cuban is getting a bad taste put in his mouth that he is going to be deposing February over the Voyager promotions. Billionaire Mark Cuban is said to be deposed on February 2nd in Dallas, Texas over his promotions of the now defunct crypto lender Voyager digital. The Dallas Mavericks owner will be deposed as part of the class action lawsuit filed by Voyager investors. They quote from the plaintiff's council, we have been litigating on behalf of hundreds of injured Voyager investors for more than a year and will finally be able to uncover evidence of what transpired and fully unto and fully understand to what extent mister Cuban and his Dallas Mavericks were involved in the offering of these unregistered securities and to what extent he was to profit. I am seeing a trend anytime someone files a lawsuit against a project or a coin or above it's unregistered securities. They were offering on registered securities. At what point is it up to the investor to take some accountability like no one put a gun to your head and said, you should buy that coin. Yeah. Right? People talk about projects all the time. People get paid to promote all the time. I get emails all the time. Every single email I'm like, oh my God. This person said I should buy it. So I'm going to buy it. At what point is it by a penny stocks? At what point is it on the consumer versus on the people that are talking about it or promoting it? Well, I think it depends on the message that they've been giving. They've been given. And I think if we go back to the last year or a year and a half, I think we kind of all did a bad job. When it comes to literally trying to express, hey, put your money on there. But you may lose it all. Like, that's a fact. And I don't think a lot of us understood the risks of a big exchange like Celsius or Voyager. You know, a lot of us didn't like coinbase, you remember when the story came out about coinbase like where they said, hey, if we lose all our money, y'all gonna lose all your money too. Well, do you remember that article that came out last year? Yeah. And we laughed at it. Everybody left. Yeah, they gotta say that, but definitely coinbase, I'm gonna lose all their money. They're laughing now? Anybody think that's not possible now?
"cameron winklevoss" Discussed on The Bitboy Crypto Podcast
"Inflation is going the right way? Right? Jobs, you know, they don't seem to be going the right way, but yet we got all these companies now laying people off. So maybe the next month, we'll see those going in the right way. And I just, you know, I don't know. I just don't see CPI number on Thursday. See what the earnings report is. Does anybody think any of those numbers can be shocking? Absolutely shocking. No. No. A lot of stuff is baked in. So there's a lot of doomsday people out there. They're telling you that the market is going to zero and Bitcoin is going to go down to, but we built a lot of support here. Well, after the 2018 bull run, during the bear market that followed, Bitcoin got as low as 3000 and traded there for about four months. Now, not traded probably around 4400. 32 and November, for about 5 months, it was between U shape. It was between 4503 1600. And then from there, it broke out and it kind of traded us. I was still the bear market but now we were trading around 8000. And I don't have my laptop. Not a bear market. 3200 is bull market. Yeah. Do you think that we could see some similar this year where instead of trading at, say, 16,000, maybe on the second half of the year, maybe during the 2023 bear market, or maybe we flipped to the bull market or whatever you want to call it, do you think we could find ourselves in some new zone where browser just trading at 40,000? Or 35,000, and that's just kind of the floor for the rest of the year, even though we're not in that parabolic bull run yet. Yeah, I believe we're going to see Bitcoin get between 25 and 30,000 in the next probably 8 weeks.
"cameron winklevoss" Discussed on The Bitboy Crypto Podcast
"I don't believe so. I believe you're wrong. Okay, smash that like button, smash that like. Why is it that I get in the studio and just want to be so ridiculous? Guys, don't forget to subscribe since any crypto, by the way. After the show, make sure to head on over there. You guys are live streaming later today. We are. Yeah, you're gonna join us? I can't go to the airport. I know. Yeah, flying out, In-N-Out. Here's what I'll say about that. Guys, he didn't take a plea deal. Right now, but he's going to take one in the future. So do you know what is predictable how awesome this is, rereading already? You'll know what you're talking about there. Where you're rereading, please let me know. Do you know what is predictable, how awesome this is rereading or I read it twice so I guess it was correct. But the point here is, I don't think that he's going to take a plea deal. The reason why he did not take a deal originally went not guilty is give his attorneys more time to work out a better deal. They're trying to figure out what kind of leverage he has, you know, Dan friedberg also has flipped as well. So it's a little strange. Because we don't know who he has leverage on, is it DCG? Is it tether? Is it Sam's parents? That he has the leverage on. We don't know, but for Dan to get a deal, it's got to be really, really big. So I just don't know who Sam is going to route out. Unless it's outside of FTX completely. And it's a big fish. What are your thoughts? Like a Gary Jones are kind of guy? Oh, Gary. Gary. You know, since we're on FTX and people are getting reading my book. Oh, you already ready? Crypto. That's great. Appreciate it. You know, also he could be flipping on other major players and blockchain in our crypto space. Because being that he was the second largest FTX was the second largest exchange before it collapsed. Obviously, these exchanges borrow and send money from one another quite frequently, so they're working. Yeah, binance as an early investor in FTX. And then all of the shenanigans that happened with the tokens that listed through Alameda and their market makers. Wouldn't be surprised if there's some collusion with some major players, some big names in the crypto space. And I don't think San Bernardino is going to go down quietly. I think he's going to pull as many people as he can, use leverage for anyone that helped them facilitate any illegal activities. And so yes, he's going to squeal like a pig. Yeah, I tell you what, when you got breaking news here, breaking news. Another chapter 11 has been filed. D.C. horn frogs. They're restructuring, okay? They're trying to do a reorg. It's a challenge. Trying to reorg, they don't want to dump a CEO. They think he's good? The quarterback? They thought he was good too. For the last time. If they're that bad, how do they, how do they make it to the channel? They're not that bad. Do you see who is a good team, okay? We played different kind of football in the SEC. And Ohio states, brand football, plays very well against ours, not that we would lose to them ever in reality.
"cameron winklevoss" Discussed on The Bitboy Crypto Podcast
"Keep going upwards or you think we're going to be range bound. I think we're going to be double range it. We're going to hit the top. We're going to hit the bottom. And then we go break out to the top. He said, look guys, these moves that not just Ethereum, but Bitcoin is making like over the last week or so, they've been really predictable. I've been questioning the market with a lever train. Today's leverage trading brought to you by thanks. But in all serious let me tell you what I did last Of course, now look, I would never advocate a 49 X leverage trading while you're driving in a flash flood, home. To Las Vegas. From Georgia bulldog, national championship. Back to back. What I will tell you is, I did exactly that. I've been running 50 X I've been around 50 X. I've been around 50 X with like a $15 stop loss. Because the moves that Bitcoin has been making an Ethereum as well. Like, they've been so exact on these ranges. They're like, when you feel like the momentum is going one way and you better go in that way, if it goes the other way, it's going the other way. So Bitcoin has been sitting so still. I've never seen anything like it before. It will literally sit in a 50 cent range for ten minutes sometimes to stablecoin. Now, some people are saying, let me get your guys 50 X's way too dangerous. I lied. I did not do 50 X doing 49 X. David, better. True story. You know, I was up .07 BTC. And I took the profits I market closed. I'm just curious, how long are your trades open? I would assume no more than 30 minutes. I mean, that's probably about right. That's interesting. Yeah. Well, it's been going the right way. And you know what? You take the profits. I was at .07 BTC and I'm a market closed it. Do you know how much profit I walked away with? 20 bucks? .015. Less about 20% of my profit. I walked away 'cause I'm already close to an idiot. Never do that again.
"cameron winklevoss" Discussed on Crypto News Alerts | Daily Bitcoin (BTC) & Cryptocurrency News
"And this just in breaking news, Cameron winklevoss just tweeted, earn update and open letter to the board of DCG that digital currency group now the Gemini cofounder says the $2.8 billion genesis defrauded Gemini in over 340,000 of their users and a reminder, not your keys, not your T's also in today's show. Coinbase, the cut yet another 20% of its workforce in the second wave of layoffs. That's right, the exchange announced a further restructuring plan that involves reducing its workforce by 950 employees to cut operational costs amid this bear market, also in today's show breaking news, former FTX chief engineer wants a deal with U.S. authorities. I'll be breaking down this latest report as the F tech saga continues to unfold, also more breaking news will be discussing why Justin sun's stablecoin USD D is struggling to maintain its dollar peg and what this means also in today's show. Is there a bull trap ahead? Well, crypto analysts who called the last collapse says they crypto rally will turn into a massive correction and warns us to the Bitcoin price can drop another 30% from the current price taking us down to around. That $12,000 Mark also in today's show analysts who called the May 2021 Bitcoin crash says Bitcoin is on track for a major breakout and shares how high it can soar quoting him here on the basis of the LGC, which is the logarithmic growth curve, which has stood the test of time for four years. Bitcoin can easily do a ten X over the next couple of years, which is indicative of the Bitcoin can ascend to a $160,000 by January 2025. We'll also be taking a look at the overall crypto market. All this, plus
"cameron winklevoss" Discussed on Coin Stories with Natalie Brunell
"It's been on for years and years and years. One of the hardest trades was being short tether the last couple of years because it's an expensive trade to put on and you've just watched the other thing blow up besides. I have so many questions about that too. It underpins so much of this ecosystem, but maybe we'll save that for another. I did want to say something actually about what you were thinking about securities and commodities because part of the reason why you're hearing Cameron winklevoss from Gemini start to publicly come out hard against Barry and saying, hey, we need to get this done is because there's been class action lawsuits starting to come out against Gemini from Gemini earn users and if you just look at Gemini earned, they're basically the exact same product of the BlockFi interest accounts where they had to settle a $100 million with the SEC for unregistered securities. And if you're looking at this product, it's really hard to see how it's not basically acting like a savings account. It's basically a non bank acting like a bank. And that's not a good place to be. And so there's been there's been a securities class action lawsuit filed against Gemini. Every single day that goes by the Gemini earned users aren't getting their funds and don't have access to their fund. I mean, you can just imagine what their client service team has to deal with right now every single day getting message from their clients. Now they got lawsuits. And they don't want the light on them because you're looking at this thing. They offered interest accounts on 38 cryptocurrencies, and we're talking about small cap. Just stupid little coins. Yeah. And they were offering interest on them, and they were collecting a fee, and they had one approved borrower where they kind of had this business going. And it was genesis. Did they disclose it enough? Did they write it in their terms and conditions with the risks were? And so I don't know if they did. I don't know what they did in this class action lawsuit probably has them sweating, which is why you're seeing a change of tone from camera now, publicly doing this. And so they deserve some criticism. They are not saints here for offering this product. I don't think. 340,000 people use this. Do they understand the risks? I'm not so sure. And so they're definitely not saints here either. It's like that meme with the Spider-Man. It's all pointing at each other, you know, but they're all to blame. Do you know what I'm talking about that is? Exactly. It's like the Spider-Man meme and it's like, you know, these things didn't have FDIC insurance. They didn't have any. They are technically regulated in a way being here and KYC and all of that, but still they have a lot of risk. Okay, I know you've got like four or 5 more minutes just macro. Right now we started the new year is pal gonna be as aggressive, sustaining high interest rates, how much longer can we go? We saw Japan kind of do a blank. What's the big picture for you going into January and this year for macro? Yeah, the big picture for me is, I mean, I think it's very clear from the Federal Reserve that they're going to keep remaining aggressive and they're probably going to hike a little bit more.
"cameron winklevoss" Discussed on Coin Stories with Natalie Brunell
"All right, welcome back to this special episode of coin stories kind of recording this impromptu because there's a lot going on with DCG and genesis. I'm sure many of you saw the letter that Cameron winklevoss sent to Barry silbert. So I wanted to catch up with Sam Callahan 'cause we did that awesome GBTC episode that so many people have given me really, really great feedback on. They learned everything about the arbitrage trade and what was happening with the crypto contagions of Sam. Thanks for coming back on. Yeah, happy to be here. Yeah, good to see you always, Natalie. Yeah, so share a little bit about what's been happening since we last talked because it seems like there's a big question is genesis is DCG going to come down and maybe you can share a little bit about your perspective on the Cameron open letter to Barry. Yeah. Well, if you go back and listen to the episode, I kind of broke down some of the options. And one of the options that I think is most advantageous to everybody involved in this situation, whether that's Gemini or genesis or DCG, is for them to work out a deal. For them to restructure these loans to negotiate with each other and try to avoid a full on chapter 11 bankruptcy of genesis because none of these people would benefit from a long lengthy expensive bankruptcy proceedings. And it definitely wouldn't help some of these creditors like the Gemini earn clients, they wouldn't have access to their funds for probably a long time if it goes to that. Scenario. And so since early December, the idea was they created these creditor committees who are talking with genesis who are talking with DCG, although lawyers are getting together. And they've been trying to work this deal out, but obviously it's January now. And we really haven't heard much of an update. And so the takeaway there is that maybe negotiations aren't going that well. And then Cameron winklevoss, who's one of the cofounders of Gemini. He wrote this public letter to Barry silbert, who's the founder of digital currency group, who's the parent company of genesis, just going to get everybody at the speed here. But he wrote a letter to Barry silbert and he was very critical in that letter, right? He said, you're basically doing bad faith, stall acts.
"cameron winklevoss" Discussed on CoinDesk Podcast Network
"We expressed our belief quote that getting everyone in a room together as soon as possible will be the most productive path towards reaching a resolution. You agreed but stated you would only do so after there was a proposal on the table. On December 17th, the proposal was delivered to you. On December 25th, Christmas Day, an updated version of this proposal was delivered to you. Despite this, you continued to refuse to get into a room with us to hash out a resolution. In addition, you continue to refuse to agree to a timeline with key milestones. Every time we ask you for a tangible engagement, you hide behind lawyers, investment bankers and process. After 6 weeks, your behavior is not only completely unacceptable, it is unconscionable. The idea in your head that you can quietly hide in your ivory tower and that this will all just magically go away or that this is someone else's problem is pure fantasy. To be clear, this mess is entirely of your own making. Digital currency group DCG of which you are the founder and CEO, owes genesis a totally own subsidiary, 1.675 billion. This is money that genesis owes to earn users in other creditors. You took this money, the money of school teachers, to fuel greedy share buybacks, a liquid venture investments, and kamikaze grayscale nav trades that balloon this fee generating AUM of your trust. All of the expensive creditors and all for your own personal gain. It is now time for you to take responsibility for this and do the right thing. It is not lost on us that you started your career as a bankruptcy restructuring associate. And it's not lost on us that you've been working desperately to try and firewall DCG from the problems that you created at genesis. You should dispense with this fiction because we all know what you know. The DCG and genesis are beyond commingle. Everyone takes orders from you and always has. And anything you have done after the fact to pretend otherwise won't hold up. If instead you would put all this energy towards finding a resolution, we would have been done by now. Everyone would be in a better place, including you. Earn users are tired. They're scared. Many are now in Dire Straits. And yet despite all that they have had to endure, they have been remarkably patient and supportive. But there is only so much more they can take. They deserve a resolution for recovery of the assets they lent to you and an end to this nightmare. To that end, and for the final time, we are asking you to publicly commit to working together to solve this problem by January 8th, 2023. We remain ready and willing to work with you, but time is running out. Sincerely, Cameron winklevoss. Now this is obviously a major rhetorical escalation. It is written very clearly not just for Barry, but for the public size as well. And despite his relative quietness on Twitter over the last two months, Barry silbert did think it worthy of response. He replied to winklevoss tweet saying DCG did not borrow 1.675 billion from genesis. DCG has never missed an interest payment to genesis and his current on all loans outstanding. Next loan maturity is May 2023. DCG delivered to genesis in your advisers a proposal on December 29th and has not received any response. To which Cameron winklevoss then replied saying there you go again. Stop trying to pretend that you and DCG are innocent bystanders and had nothing to do with creating this mess. It's completely disingenuous. So how does DCG O genesis 1.675 billion if it didn't borrow the money? Oh right, that promissory note. Will you or will you not commit to solving this by January 8th in a manner that treats the $1.1 billion promissory note as $1.1 billion? Now, part of what's fueling all the intensity around this exchange is growing discontent among Gemini customers. Last Tuesday, a class action lawsuit was filed against Gemini, claiming that the exchange had violated securities laws and failing to register their earned product as a security. Then just today, three Gemini earned users filed a request for class action arbitration against genesis in DCG. Now class action arbitration is radically oversimplifying, of course, a less expensive, faster version than a class action lawsuit. From coin desk, quote, the claimants allege genesis had failed to return there in all Gemini earned users digital assets as required under the master agreements between the firm and users. They claim genesis first breached the master agreement when the firm became insolvent in the summer of 2022, but concealed its insolvency from customers. Genesis then they allege engaged in a sham transaction with its parent company DCG to conceal the insolvency, exchanging the right to collect $2.3 billion debt owed to genesis by the now insolvent hedge fund three arrows capital for a promissory note of 1.1 billion due in 2033. The group also claims that genesis master agreement effectively is creating unregistered sale of securities and are seeking to rescind the contracts of sale and related damages. So in terms of the specifics of what is going on, Arri Paul tried to break it down. The CIO of block tower wrote, as long as DCG and genesis never did any cross party transactions that weren't fully disclosed and were arms length, then what Cameron is saying is relevant. If not, then not. For anyone following along at home, Barry is claiming DCG and genesis are entirely separate entities such that genesis liabilities don't extend to DCG. That's true if they really were entirely separate economic entities. It's false and courts will find it false if genesis and DCG engaged in transactions with each other that were different from how either would treat a random third party and disadvantage either side. In this case, it doesn't seem like genesis would be in default right now without the DCG favors. Meaning that corporate veil likely to be pierced. Courts can decide. Regardless, there's a lesson here for everyone. When you do business with a person or company, you may really be engaging with some subsidiary the person in holding company will then try to disown. Now this question of commingling and Vail piercing
"cameron winklevoss" Discussed on This Week in Tech
"I mean, there's still worth 20,000, unless he bought it at 30. Or is he leveraged if you bought it on? He could be. He could be. He apparently he put all the thing that brings Jake Paul down. I'll be very surprised. What a world. But I think that I think that a lot of what we're seeing, like, why is everything kind of collapsing at once? It's because you've had a ton of leverage into this market. And all of this leverage bets are unwinding at once. Right. And it's just enormous celebration. And by the way, this picture is why there are people maybe me who have some schadenfreude about all that. There's Jake Paul, literally rolling in money. That's why people don't like Bitcoin Bros, right? And so I feel bad. Anybody lost money. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Jake. At least you have your boxing career to fall back on. That's not his brother. Oh, is it Logan's that I can't keep track of them? I don't know. My son, who is hip and with it, tells me there's one good Paul and one bad poll. I don't know what to do. Inside of you, there are two pawls. Jake Paul did blame Biden for the fall of Bitcoin. So I'm thinking, so there's that. Maybe he's maybe he's the bad Paul. All right, we're not going to go on and on. Bitcoin, I hope it goes back up. I really do, for all of us, all of your sake. And I hope they go to proof of stake or less energy intensive ways of keeping the ledger. Because that's not good either. Before you move on, going back to Owens defensive of web three. I think some of the principles behind that, like more decentralization, getting away from everything being consolidated with a few major players like Facebook or Google and Apple and so on. I think I like that in principle, but the reality is the reason why it got centralized in the first place is people most people don't want to and don't know how to run their own servers and do all this stuff on their own. This is something that the technology is such that invariably you will end up consolidating it with a few players. And open sea and everything else. There's no reason why technically today why it couldn't be decentralized. I mean, that's what it was to begin with. But the reality is most people don't want to manage all of this stuff. They want to be able to just use the stuff without thinking about it. Right. I agree with you a 100%. And that's also part of the problem, because you're going to get taken. If you aren't vigilant. With these cryptocurrencies. I wonder how the winklevoss twins are doing. Weren't they playing a concert recently? Yeah, they're rock and rollers now. That's a new thing. Cameron Wilkes says, I can't believe Bitcoin's taken. They took all the money that they got by suing Mark Zuckerberg. Saying he stole Facebook from them. They plowed that into crypto. They had a crypto fund. They did all sorts of stuff. With money, you can't afford to lose. But again, they had that Facebook money. I wonder, I wonder if you compare the performance of Bitcoin versus meta stock. Meta stock's not done that well either, right? They're probably glad they got out of that. For many reasons. Cameron winklevoss tweeted Bitcoin under 20 K feels like an over rotation. The underlying fundamentals adoption and infrastructure have never been stronger. We saw the irrational top. This feels irrational in the other direction, which is his way of saying, keep buying Bitcoin. I think the most impressive thing about that tweet is that he doesn't have an NFT profile. Oh, you're right. Well, he's not east, you know. Does that make sense?.