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"cambridge baldwin" Discussed on C-SPAN Radio

C-SPAN Radio

05:24 min | 7 months ago

"cambridge baldwin" Discussed on C-SPAN Radio

"Of do not assume authorized to jettison all in time civilization the only thing that the white man has the Negro should want is that is how and so Buckley goes on like that for a bit and then he he this sort of major I guess substantive argument of Buckley makes for the end of his speech as he says the American racial situation is the product of an and forty calls an unfortunate conjunction of two factors on the one hand there are individual races out there and Buckley says that is a problem it's important to note that language or individual races a few bad apples if you will on the other side there are failures of the of the Negro community so uses the individuals on the one side community on the other and he says that although it's it is important the more opportunities be afforded African Americans it's also he says important for people like Baldwin to play the role of trying to encourage people with an eye his community is is Buckley puts it to take advantage of the opportunities that exist so I think that's a very deliberate word choice by Buckley and so I say that you know the slogans civil rights movement is freedom now Buckley slogan is some freedom one day when we decide you're ready is is the way I would I would conclude that so just wrap things up and then I'll take your questions Buckley involvement do me one more time so the the the debate happens February eighteenth March seventh nineteen sixty five is is known as Bloody Sunday if you seen the film some a you know what happens that day you see a protesters brutalized by album a lot law enforcement officers the the the debate transcript to condense transcript is published in The New York Times that same day the same day as bloody Sunday the Buckley Baldwin debate debate appears in New York times Sunday magazine Buckley involved in then invited on the television to meet again on the show David such kinds of those of you who you know may may be familiar with such kind here show called open end the last thing on at night so they can just keep talking and talking and talking and talking to they passed out in nineteen sixty seven the cap the two hours so Buckley involvements out there for two hours it was right before Buckley announced his candidacy for mayor of New York City and they discuss among other things blues police brutality in New York and by most accounts Buckley got the better of Baldwin that night so in in Cambridge Baldwin wins the vote five hundred forty four to one hundred sixty four so he's tramp in that regard Buckley I gets the better of him on open and for for various reasons and as they reflect on as many people reflect on the open end experience Baldwin says there's one moment the cause me to he says to my eternal dishonor lose that debate and refused to engage a Buckley and that was when Paul was describing the conditions in Harlem and the and the conditions under which people live and Buckley says do the landlords Tippy toe uptown and throw garbage in the streets there were bald one heard when Buckley said that was that he was saying to bald one of the people in Harlem deserved their fate and those people downtown deserve their fate and for bald when that was about as low as you can go Wimbledon was asked to reflect on his encounters a Buckley a few years later the belly hills hotel nineteen sixty eight is being interviewed by the only times he says after Buckley said that what I should have done is hit him over the head with my coffee Cup now I think of course that was a joke that contained a very serious idea at its core late in the the speech a Cambridge Baldwin says what concerns me most is that if we fail to hear each other then reason will lose its authority how relevant is that today if we fail to hear each other reason will lose its authority and there will be blood there will be fire next time and all this is that is what concerns me most Buckley for his part reflects on his encounters a bald and also in nineteen sixty eight Kerry wells writes a profile of Buckley for esquire and he says that of all the debates I've had and I've had you know Buckley that hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of debates I lost the debate at Cambridge by the largest margin but it's the performance that I'm most proud of why Garry wills Assam Buckley says because I didn't give them one damn inch so there's something about this story right that is essentially tragic you have these two people who are both so gifted in their ability to communicate they're so gifted in their ability to express themselves and they have these encounters that end in disaster and I think that's a lesson that we all need to think about in Baldwin says to us that none of us are off the hook this is an important message from Baldwin Baldwin proves to be a very powerful lens through which to view some but like William F. Buckley junior the Baldwin said we make a mistake when we only focus on those who we see as our opponents or as you know political politically ill informed or even evil Baldwin says we have to all think about the ways in which we are complicit through those millions of details of every day that he talks about the speech in the ways that we serve in some of the ways we behave to perpetuate systems of power thanks a lot I really appreciate you being.

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"cambridge baldwin" Discussed on The Book Review

The Book Review

12:20 min | 8 months ago

"cambridge baldwin" Discussed on The Book Review

"Hello Paul McCartney here. My new picture bouquet ground dude is out now and it's raided by me it's about a grandfather granddad. Grand Dude who uses this is margie compass to whisk his grandchildren away on adventures around the world. A lot of fun writing in the raising it on. I hope you enjoy too. You can download it. Start listening today. Hey Grandma how James Baldwin and William F Buckley end up on a stage together in one thousand nine hundred sixty five at Cambridge University to debate one another on Race Nicholas Koby here to talk about his book. The fire is upon us. What's it like growing up black and gay and the south poet and now L. Memoir Ist Sii Jones will be here to talk about his book? How we fight for our lives Concepcion de Leon will give us an update from the literary world last? We'll talk about what we the and the wider world are reading this book view. PODCAST from the New York Times. I'm Pamela Paul. Nicholas Cola is here in the studio to talk about his new book. The fire is upon us. James Baldwin William F. Buckley junior and the debate over race in America. His two previous books were the essential Douglas and Abraham Lincoln and Liberal Democracy Nicholas. Thanks for being here. Thanks thanks for having me. I'm honored to be here all right. This is a change of subject for you why this book. This book emerged through Baldwin. I was invited to write essay about Baldwin and I devoted voted the few months just reading everything could get my hands on. And then I dug into the Youtube Archives of all these video Baldwin and I found the debate with Buckley and I became transfixed was just such a dramatic moment of these two men who embodied movements in a way and they have them on the international stage clashing. I was just sort of became mildly obsessed with it and so I wrote that essay Using the debate as a framing device in is I worked on the ESA I kept thinking. There's there's a book in here and then that book kind of grew and grew and grew to a joint intellectual biography. They're born about a year apart from each other and so I thought I could sort of weave their intellectual biographies against the backdrop of the the rise of the civil rights and conservative movements. I have to say you know word favor of Youtube. All of these things are on there and you can go online and Google Baldwin Buckley debate and it comes right up up. I just want to play a quick clip from that to be. This is a bit. We have a civil rights bill. Now we had an amendment the Fifteenth Amendment nearly one hundred years ago I hate to see them again like an Old Testament prophets whether the amendment was not honor. Then I don't have any reason to believe in the Civil Rights Bill. We'll we'll be on it now and after all one's been there since before you know. A lot of people got their if one has got to proved once title to the land isn't four hundred years enough one hundred years at least three worlds later on will play play another clip from Buckley. But let's start with something you just mentioned Nicholas. which is that? These two men were born. Only fifteen months. Apart in New York City could not have had more different circumstances in terms of their births and upbringing. Let's start with James Baldwin Baldwin born in August nineteen twenty four in Harlem and he's the oldest of nine children and Baldwin describes his childhood as being one the Chili marked by domination His experience is is one in which he has. There's all sorts of individual people in his life police officers landladies landlords that he's seizes is enforcing kind of boundaries Andres on his his growth as a as a human being and he sees his parents victimized by racial oppression by economic anxiety by a lack of economic opportunity and so Baldwin I'm describes growing up in Harlem and is auto biographical writings and a really powerful way of of really a set of circumstances in which he feels so limited as a human being. I mean he has to try to figure out way to find some modicum of power to fight back against the suppression so Baldwin is somebody who eventually finds his lover. He calls it in language words. He's obsessed with books you know from a very young age reading everything and get his hands on trying to find ways in which to make sense of his experience through books and then he begins writing at a very young age and actually actually devote himself to writing often. He can in the ends up becoming a young minister. His father was a lay pentecostal preacher in Haarlem storefront churches and so Baldwin becomes the young minister at the age of fourteen and has really taken by the power of language to connect him to his congregation and although he leaves the church by seventeen he remains a preacher's entire life including the ninety debates. Buckley it really is sermon. Tell us what was his formal education like so Baldwin. was somebody who you know. He says that he was not the best of students students. But that he you know because he had a hard time staying interested in a lot of the things he was learning in school so within a lot of ways he was not died act but he had the opportunity a couple of really really important teachers in his life and those teachers encouraged him to apply for a program at dewitt Clinton high school and he he went to Clinton which of course is this story. Place it's produced to all sorts of important intellectual and political figures and so that experience was important because Baldwin at dewitt Clinton was able to work for the. The High School Literary magazine had some outlets outlet for his creative abilities but he was somebody who did not have an opportunity to go to college so in many ways. You know you sort of you. All people familiar Baldwin's writings assume that he has some sort of you. You know lead education. But but in fact he didn't he was somebody who was largely self educated and was really just a a student you know from a very early age. You know that that he died all right. That's it's a good moment to just pivot quickly to Buckley because we associate him so much with the institutions that he attended of course God and man at Yale but let's start start with his birth in New York City. Buckley is you know as I say at the beginning of the book He May as well been born in on a different planet. You know the same city but my as miserable been a different planet. Buckley really is somebody who was born into immense wealth so Buckley's father is somebody who made in lost and regained fortunes in the real estate and oil businesses. His mother is a comes from old money proud daughter of the confederacy. So I say that you know that his father had new money. His mother had old money. The keyword there's money and they. I used that money to provide their children with a very rich upbringing in a lot of ways and especially educationally ten children yet there were ten. Attendance goes both came from very large families. They did say one thing they have in common. The Buckley's had an estate in Sharon Connecticut known as Great Elm Forty seven Acre estate and they had a a elaborate homeschooling for their children so every subject under the Sun. They had live in tutors. That were there fulltime. They brought in part time tutors to cover. Every other subject to the Buckley's really devoted voted in and they were especially devoted to teaching their children in particular world view and so the Buckley's were taught a kind of they. Call it individualism. But it was really a kind of elitism. They were taught hot to be very suspicious of any form of collectivism socialism communism and the new deal policies of Franklin Delano Roosevelt. But they're also taught to be very suspicious of democracy. I'm they were taught taught that some people are fit to rule others are fit to be ruled and they were among those who were to rule of course and so Buckley really he'd ever really desires to become his father he he doesn't want to follow him into business but he really wants to devote his life to defending the world view that his father taught him on his mother taught him and so in that hierarchy household whether they're todd these values of hierarchy those values thoroughly racial is is one of the key themes the book and so- Buckley's racial politics in many ways you know emerged at a very young age and he sustains those throughout his life so it's interesting that both Buckley and Baldwin for very different reasons are suspicious of certain aspects of American democracy. That's true that's true. And it's it's these moments you know now in the in the book when I say there is kind of surprising there's some surprising overlaps where you know Baldwin and Buckley Ha of crowd the suspicion of liberalism. They have some suspicion of democracy mcreavy they have some suspicion of the capacity of law needs to bring about social change but those moments were there the the there's overlaps very different reasons why they take those positions and so oh I think but in that overlap we can we can learn something about our politics and also in the the reasoning that they you know both of them used to arrive at those conclusions can really help us make sense of our political moment I mean is it in those moments of auto alignment that the tension is greatest in terms of their differences. I think that's true. I mean I think maybe not. There's definitely a lot of tensions just running through The the story but I think that those moments are you know really fascinated me one example. Is that Baldwin and Buckley are both great critics northern hypocrisy on race. You know they they they will often say you know the one line that's uses the Jim Crow has the north simply more sophisticated Baldwin. Say that sort of thing and Buckley would see that sort of thing. Of course Buckley's point point. Was He would say that to get northerners to lay off of the south and Balden would say that to get all of us delay into the north right and so those moments I think are are especially powerful to think about. Okay why is it the Baldwin is looking at somebody you know particular politician that he really does not trust and Buckley's looking at saint politician. It does not trust that person. They have these radically different different reasons for that distrust and I think that's that's really informative for us all right. Let's come from their childhood circumstances right to nineteen sixty five the year in which this debate the subject have your book. The fire is upon US takes place. Where is James Baldwin at this point in his life and career? Nineteen sixty five Baldwin's really at the height of his fame name so Baldwin had published his first novel in Nineteen fifty three and he he'd published by then three novels go tell in the Mountain Giovanni in another country so you establish himself as a fiction writer but also then published several essay collections and in one thousand nine hundred sixty three the next time is published. And that's that's really a book that I mean Baldwin Star was already ascending but that that book sort of sent Baldwin to the height of literary fame I mean so. He's among the most famous writers in the world at that time in Baldwin's connection connection to the civil rights movement was was always a complicated one. I mean he describes himself as a witness in his first interactions with the Jim crow south or as a journalist he goes down to the south to cover. What's happening the black liberation struggle for particular magazines and publications and so Baldwin says my job is to write it all down but he of course feels in this sense of obligation to be go beyond writing it all down of course journalism always has kind of normative dimension to it but he he says you know? He spends a lot of his life if it's what he calls a transatlantic commuter living in Europe and living in the US but he feels a sense of obligation to to engage in the struggle and so by sixty three he's kind of identified as a kind of spokesman when he didn't like that label at all didn't like most labels but he really wants to eat engaged in this that both through his fiction and nonfiction writing. What he's really trying to do is provide his readers years with the sense of what the world looks like through the eyes of of a variety of people in the south and also elsewhere in the country who are in the midst of this struggle to change the country such really I Baldwin? It's up to them so at that moment. Sixty five Cambridge Baldwin's internationally famous. So those students that are packed into that union debating hall. They're really there to see Baldwin. Because Buckley hadn't quite achieved international fame yet all right. Let's talk about William F.. Buckley where is he. Nineteen sixty five in terms of his career. So Buckley by sixty five is second only only to Barry Goldwater in terms of a sort of face of the American conservative movement and Buckley had played really this outsized role in shaping what we now call the conservative movement. So Buckley in Nineteen fifty-five starts at National Review magazine which the idea the magazine was to try to do what progressive magazines had done in the first half of the twentieth century Maksim like the nation and the republic had done so much to shape. The American left and so- Buckley has idea that there's not really anything that we could call it an conservative movement a coherent conservative conservative movement. Fifty five so he has this idea to use a magazine to bring folks together a coalition Together and so he founds national review and very right at the same aim moment. He's founding national review. The civil rights movement the latest phase in the civil rights struggle is occurring the lynching of Emmett till the reaction to that the rest of Rosa parks the Montgomery Montgomery bus boycott..

James Baldwin Baldwin William F Buckley James Baldwin William F. Buckl Baldwin Baldwin Buckley Buckley Ha Cambridge Baldwin New York City Paul McCartney Sii Jones Concepcion de Leon Jim Crow New York Times Pamela Paul Cambridge University dewitt Clinton high school Nicholas Koby Youtube