19 Burst results for "Cal Newport"
[Part 1] On Great Teachers and the Remarkable Life: A Deliberate Practice Case Study by Cal Newport
"Predicting greatness. The impact of teachers is profound if you rank the world's countries by their students academic performance the US this is somewhere in the middle in two thousand Nine Yorker Article Malcolm guy well knows stat. Replacing the bottom six percent ten percent of public school teachers with teachers of average quality polity could be enough to close the gap between our current position and the top ranked countries quote. Your child is actually better off in a bad school with an excellent teacher then in an excellent school with a bad teacher Gladwin concludes. But there's a problem quote. No one knows what a person with the potential to be. A great teacher. Looks like Mike and quote or at least. According to Glad Well Teaching for America nonprofit recruits outstanding college graduates to teach in low income. School districts disagrees. His organization is fanatical about data for the past twenty years. They've gathered massive amounts of statistics on their teachers in an attempt to figure out why some succeed in the classroom in some fail Ale then work backwards from these results to identify what traits best predict a potential recruits success as a man Ripley reports in a comprehensive look inside the teach for America process published in the Atlantic monthly the results of this outcome based approach to hiring our humbly. I came into this with a bunch of theories to former head of admissions at teach. Teach for America told Ripley quote proven wrong at least as many times as I was validated and quote when each for America I started twenty years ago applicants were subjectively subjectively scored by interviewers on twelve general traits like communication ability sample interview question. What is wind by contrast? If you're one of the thirty five five thousand students who applied in two thousand nine a pool that included eleven percent of Ivy League seniors. Thirty data points gathered from a combination of questionnaires demonstrations in interviews us were fed into a detailed quantitative model that returned a hiring recommendation. This data driven approach seems to work as readily reports in two thousand seven twenty ninety four percent of teach for America. Teachers advance their students at least one and a half grade levels or more two years later as the organization's models continue to evolve this number has almost doubled to forty four percent. I'm fascinated by teach for America for a simple reason the trace. They discovered at the core of great teaching are unmistakably a variant of deliberate practice not the pure coach driven practice a professional athletes and chess grandmasters but a hardy adaptable strain rain applicable to almost any field put another way these outstanding teachers may have unwittingly cracked the code generating a remarkable life inside inside the classroom of an outstanding teacher in her Atlantic. Piece Ripley recounts and afternoons spent in the math. Classroom of William Taylor a teacher in Southeast Washington. DC who ranks in the top five percent of all math teachers in the district. When Taylor enters the classroom is students fall into a strictly choreographed interaction? Good morning he calls
"cal newport" Discussed on The Unbeatable Mind Podcast with Mark Divine
"Tools for hacking the brain and and you know the emotion to the user into all of their APPs right and so every APP now had game game of vacation and notifications and those things that draw you back time and time again so I think you're right when I first started using iphone. There weren't those things or at least they weren't as prevalent. They weren't always on right and so you weren't always drawn back to pick up the phone so it's the game of vacation of the device which has led to such A. It seems to me anyway. I don't WanNa make these statements especially to someone who's studied the thing and Nauseam so I should have said as a question do you think it's the game -cation that has been the primary culprit. Yes I mean it depends how broadly defined game vacation but basically yes. It's a a collection of strategies that helped make these APPs and and so one of the big changes that led this way was for example when the social media companies change the experience so it was no longer about. I post you post because I know you I check what you post. That was the original social media experience original web. Two Point Oh vision. They replaced that with. I hit this APP and there is an incoming stream of social approval indicators about me there's wykes which weren't there it's obviously there's likes for my post there's re tweets there's favorites. There's people moan auto tagging me in their photo so that that was one of the big changes because it meant When you hit that button sometimes you're gonNA see a lot of social approval indicators about you and sometimes you're going to see no social approval indicators about you and sometime you might see that people are upset you the way? Our brain is wired. We can not resist polling that virtual slot machine lever if those are the rewards come out and on the other end and that wasn't a purposeful and then they re engineered the interfaces for for all of these tools to have that game vacation. Feel so now you can have swiped down to reload. That's very slot machine asked right or maybe inlet they go to endless scrolling on certain types of interfaces so that that you you have no easy friction point. That's going to get you to stop facebook. Change their engineers made the original notification badge gray because that was to facebook Palette and the attention engineers came along and said no no. No it needs to be alarm red. Because that's what is more likely to create a sense of sort the distress or urgency in the human brain. You'll be more likely to hit the APP. And so it's a whole reinvention. The be an intermittent stream of social indicators which has nothing to do with the original idea of social media wasn't there it's completely contrived Eddie of a like button photo tax that's all about driving eyeballs coupled with this sort of in a interface reinvention and I got to say and not not the sound conspiratorial. But there's there's a few pockets in academia That specialize on what they call persuasive technology. How do we redesign? Redesigned technologies to actually induce desired action in the user A lot of people who ended up innovating these ideas at the big tech companies came out of these research groups. And so this. This is all intentional. It's why when Sean Parker the original facebook president more recently a couple of years ago came out and said we're hacking your brain you know we're hackers and we figured out how to Hack your brain and I gotta say this was terrible news for the social media companies. The idea that we're exploiting you. This addictive is making you unhappy and I think this is a real reason why they're PR. People told the social media companies. You have to tack car to another topic. And that's why you see the conversation. Almost entirely about things l. like privacy and data portability and content moderation as they had changed the subject they cannot be talking about. Are these services addictive and making people unhappy unhappy. Because that's a problem. They can't solve if they make the service less addictive their revenue plummets. And so there's been this shift in the way they talk about things and say well. Let's deal with with with issues that maybe we can do something about maybe. We can add into inscription to try to reduce privacy violations. Maybe we can keep tweaking. Content moderation standards. There's a reason why they're talking about that and not talking about their former president saying that we're having your brains is because that's playground. They wanted to be playing right well. It's interesting you know I. It takes us a while to to study and acknowledge at a social level to study. Acknowledge the damage that can be done at a broad level from from something like smoking or alcohol all addiction and then to take action against it. Do you think that's going to happen with the brain hacking through these electronic devices or is it just something that the the government's going to be like. Yeah whatever. It's just free market. Well you know you have to keep in mind. We have to get the historical example in mind. I think this is actually an interesting point. So there there's been recently in the news like let's say Chris Hughes one of the Co founders of facebook and some of the presidential candidates coming out and saying Social media the big companies like facebook or like big oil and they need to be broken up the trust that needs to be broken up but maybe the better analogy is actually big tobacco because think about the The government response to BIG TOBACCO WAS NOT WE'RE GONNA somehow regulate tobacco companies to make cigarettes less harmful. There's aunts a big tobacco was we're going to essentially Angelique exit but also educate the public that you probably shouldn't be smoking and I you know I'm wondering if that's not. The more apt analogy here is sitting social social media company. This is a this is a free service based on extracting attention fundamentally it's going to be It's GONNA be addictive. It's going to be exploited if they have a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders to be addictive and to get as much use as possible. And so I don't know if the idea of what we need to do as maybe just get more competition in this space is somehow the key to to me. I see this a little bit more through the Linzo how he used to see big tobacco. That's what I'm trying to do with. My books is shift the culture to some degree where people no longer feel comfortable with the idea that this is something that they're just going to slavishly check on their phone. I mean I think when something is unhealthy as opposed to uncompetitive. That's a different set of solutions. To begin to look at right or another. You know option is that we're heading into narrow people because of the exorcist information and the diffusion of information that a lot the people are demanding more social responsibility of the companies that do business with as well as investing. And so you know. I think you're GONNA find companies that exploit things that damage the social fabric having a harder and harder time staying business. That's maybe a dream of mine fine but it's not happening right now. It doesn't seem but you never know right. You never know and the funny thing about a company like facebook is. It's it's historically unique. We've never before in history had a company that was so valuable I mean facebook is valued around five hundred billion dollars. That's almost twice ExxonMobil's valuation and yet at the same time is so dispensable. If you think about facebook I if I came to you and said look. I'm sorry a court order. You're not allowed to look at facebook facebook in ten years. Exactly the people have the same reaction. Oh it's okay I mean if there I'm GonNa look at it and yet it's worth five hundred billion dollars typically when you have a company that valuable it's because let's say they supply oral and our entire economy requires oil the run And it's a necessity and it's a social good but this weird place to social media companies are on on is that their hooks into their audiences is very tenuous and people can very easily leave platform and go to another. I've been documenting pretty thoroughly a lot of people my age just leaving social media altogether like well I tried it was okay. I mean they don't really play. They're an interesting source of distraction. But for most people are not at all dispensable. So they're in this rear precarious situation situation. Where you know? Kim Kardashian says the right thing about instagram tomorrow and they could see their user base plummet by thirty percent. That's a scary position to be in. If you're one of these companies except that they own instagram you know who they are valuable to the business world is doing business on the Internet and spending companies spending millions of dollars a month. Yeah on facebook. which crazy just to attract eyeballs and hopefully convert some users? Yeah well I mean. There's a reason that worth five. Hundred Billion Dollars is because the advertising works but for the advertising the work they have to get the average millennial user now uses social media. Something like one hundred forty one minutes a day. That's what makes them so. Valuable is the fact that they've convinced a sizable fraction of the population to essentially dedicate the bulk of their leisure time to entering data belt themselves in the databases right. Let's talk specifically about your book. Now I saw in some of the notes that Ellison put together for me that you were hoping to get a small Qadri of peeps to do a little experiment and to go off all social media and screens hundred percent for thirty days and you ended up with a boatload of volunteers. How did that come about? And what were some of the surprising things about that. Study so the original L.. Ask and this was an email I sent to my mailing list and so it was a little bit under the radar and I said look. I want to find volunteers to do this thing. I'm calling a digital declutter. Were as you said you take a thirty day break from all these optional technology your personal life and then when you're done the idea was you don't just go back to everything you rebuild from. Scratch so the thirty days the idea the thirty days as opposed to just doing this over weekend. The idea of the thirty days was that you could actually have some time for reflection experimentation. figure out what do I really care about what I want to really spend my time on. Get some clarity on that. So that when it comes time to add back tech you can be much more intentional. I thought I would get I. Don't know a dozen volunteers. I mean that's kind of a big ask ask right. I honestly thought about dozen volunteers and I can talk to him all. I thought this will permit. There'll be twelve people who do this and I'll keep him on the phone and then I can. I can kind of write about the experience in the book what it was like for these people and instead sixteen hundred people signed up. Wow so it became an actual like research search study it became it became like an actual research study was as and then you had the code the surveys and come out. Data was except for to be clear. I purposely did not officially code the surveys or gather data in a quantitative kids because then I would need approval from my academic institution so But it but it became like an unintentional sort of social movement ended up being covered the New York Times. A one of their reporters roommates was doing it and and And that that's what really helped me understand that there is such A. There's such a pent up hunger for change here. But I'll have to say when the big things I discovered from. This experiment is a a people were surprised to discover the extent to which their phone had pushed everything out of their life that they used to care about and they they've been telling themselves this story of well. Look look at my phone occasionally when I have nothing else to do its idle time. I mean the elevator. Not a big deal and that first day when they didn't didn't have the phone to look at they realize I don't know what to do with myself. I have gotten rid of. I have stopped putting in the hard work required to actually build up a meaningful will a meaningful leisure life outside of disk professional activities. So that was the first thing I learned The second thing I learned is that the people who treated this like a detox and I really hate hate to use of the word. Detox in context technology Because I think I think people are completely abusing the concept when they talked about digital detox which was for most people they mean a break which is which is actually a pretty big insult to the substance abuse community where the where the whole notion of detox is is to make actionable change as the foundation for better life. Eddie that you just take a break from the thing that's bothering you is but that's a bit of an aside But the people who treated the thirty days like one these digital detox isn't just tried to white knuckle it. I'm just going to not use my phone. I use it too much. They almost all failed. lasted a week or two and we're back to the people who succeeded needed and making lasting change out of these thirty days for the people who took the thirty days and said I'm GonNa get after it and figure out..
"cal newport" Discussed on The Unbeatable Mind Podcast with Mark Divine
"Don't use Tucker an end. It is only useful when it comes to human flourishing when you're deploying tack for very specific intentional purposes that you care about as soon as the tech becomes an end in itself that we start to see problems. Hey folks welcome back to the unbeatable mine. PODCAST is Mark Devine your host. Thanks so much for joining me today. We're GONNA have an incredible show with my friend cal. Newport author of digital minimalism and one of my favorite books deep work Kelso's spoke to have you. I'll introduce more but Jeez it's really good to have you back on the show and Michigan. Yeah it's my pleasure. It's been too long. It has. I've been tracking your work and I know that your your university professor your computer computer scientist actually but I loved when I read and deep work just how you organize your life and so it really was not surprised that you're next work was digital minimalism. Because because you already are kind of a minimalist and I'm really stoked that you went deep into that subject to help other people appreciate the benefits of that. But so let's you know before we get into all that cool stuff. Let's remind our listeners. Or those who aren't familiar with your work or who you are as a person you know just a a little bit about your background and how you came to teach computer science and and what it is it really fires you up and makes you unbeatable. Well I really do too. Thanks thanks so I am a computer scientist. And that's what I've been training for my whole life I went right out of college to Mit. Got My doctorate and now at Georgetown. My focus on the theory of distributed systems. That means I do the sort of non useful type of computer science where we saw the equations at the whiteboard instead of actually building useful things with computers but I have also been a writer in parallel with that whole progression. I wrote my first book when I was still an undergraduate digital minimalism is my six and so I've been writing at the same time That I've been a computer scientist. It used to be the case that the books I wrote were just topics were relevant into my own life at the time so for example back in two thousand twelve I wrote a book about career satisfaction I wrote it then because I was entering the job market and I want the know about satisfaction in two thousand sixteen. I wrote deep work because I really cared about. How do I get tenure or more? Generally how knowledge workers succeed and I really went. Deep defunding the value of focus. I will say however mark that in recent years with this new book and the book. I'm working on now. Really Seen My mission starting to sharpen where I no longer see my life as a writer as something different than my life as a technologist I now see myself primarily right now as a technologist who also writes about the impact. Are these technologies on our culture. And so that's what's really been getting me fired up. Starting with deep work with my new book digital minimalism and the book. I'm writing now about email. That's it's called a world without email is all trying to grapple with the intersection of tech at our culture. Is I think these are the more important issues facing us right now so in a way. It's your it's your apology to culture for screwing US up with all your computers stuff. Yeah this is my apology for what I've wrought with my academic work. uh-huh what you've wrought on. Well you're not alone. There's a whole like a whole bunch of other people working in that area to distract us and to take us away from important things like spending time alone and being quiet and that type of stuff. So let's let's talk about deep worked before we get into your current work or or your more. Recent work with digital minimalism. One of the things I loved about deep work was this notion Russian that if you want just mentioned if you WanNa really contribute and not just skim. The surface of of social media news is in common just like languaging in a social context. If you really WanNa go deep and understand something deeply you have to kind of escape and different people. We'll have different ways to do it. How do you like how do you I mean not escape from reality but escape from unreality and go back to where the true information lies right which is going to be found inside through inside intuition as well as being able to really penetrate a subject by studying with deep concentration so tell us what year discovery was that what worked for you and what works for some other high level thinkers and authors and creators? Well for me like with a lot of people there. Two components to trying to really prioritize depth do type of thing that moves the needle and knowledge work so one component is actually just minimizing the amount of non depth stuff on your plate and so this is an ongoing aggressive effort to try to make sure that you're not adding too much shallow allegations on your plate. So there's this this overall effort to minimize something that I work very aggressively at. I'm sort of try to be very careful about what what I allow on my plate. What I agree to what initiatives I take on? I'm sort of DETTORI. Hard to track down. I say no to most invitations to do most things because because I don't want my time being taken up then when you focus on what is on your plate. I do something that a lot of other people do which is I- also late between periods of deeper work and periods of shallow work. And I do that on many different scales and so that might mean on the scale of an individual day. I like to start start with deep work and then once that energy is spent maybe move over some of the logistical stuff. On the scale of a week I tend to have a balance of some days. Maybe are a teaching as as long as I have to be on campus teaching. I'm going to put other meetings on that day. I'm going to dedicate that day more towards non deep efforts but then other days in that same week might be almost entirely dedicated into deep thinking and then on the scale of seasons as a professor. I do the same thing. I'm entering summer right now. That means going into hibernation mode. I'm about to become very hard to track down because I'M GONNA be reading and writing for months at a time and so having a clear separation between depth shallows at multiple different scales coupled with an overall commitment commitment to be incredibly careful about what I agree. A lot on. My plate has helped me get in enough of the deep cycles to keep doing interesting things. you know that that's awesome and it sounds simple but there's a tremendous amount of self awareness that goes into what you just said in those two big categories. You know saying no in service to that bigger. Yes right there right the self-awareness required to know what to say. Yes to is really the most important born thing right so that that means really getting clear about what is your unique gift to the world. You know at a broad level and then how you're going to express that and really dive into that at this point in time right and that's going to change as you have offer you. It's changed as your interests have evolved right and then the other thing go ahead. Yeah I was just GONNA say briefly. There's an irony to that as well. It's absolutely vital and the irony is as what you're as what you're doing the thing you're working deeply on gets gets more developed and gets more impactful the demands to take you away from it grow as well. It's this this weird binary coin and sort of the the more you become useful useful. The more you're deep thinking becomes useful to the world the more the world is going to try to take you away from your deep thinking which and it's difficult. I mean this is social reciprocity. Just just yesterday. I was showing my wife. I said look. Clean my inbox on Tuesday Earlier in the day and and here it was Wednesday afternoon and I was saying there are now nine request Austin here for my time from people I know and every one of the whos is going to require like a relatively delicate social dance to basically say no to so it gets pretty hard. I mean I think it's worth emphasizing your precise. It's hard work but it's where it's worked. It's absolutely vital to do if you want to keep doing things if impact right and the irony. There is the distractions. Come as you said. Because of the deep work and because of aligning with that purpose of that gift but also The requests are are in alignment with a meaning the more of an expert you become. Let's say digital minimalism. The more avenues. You're going to open up in the more experts and opportunities for things like this podcast. That opened up in his all in alignment with this new vein of gold. That your plumbing but you still then you have to do that like the next layer of selectivity right and so it's not the old stuff that's distracting anymore. It's new stuff. New People new interest new avenues. And like you said that's just a never ending thing. You can't get rid of the distraction. You just keep on sharpening the saw your awareness on what to say yes do and what to avoid so you can keep going deeper in the right lane or follow the vein appropriate to use that metaphor. You know all the way down to the depth fastening because you know we could literally spend the entire time talking about and how to do that right out how to develop that type of awareness. The other thing you said this idea of having a battle rhythm is really interesting knowing how to spend your days where or your energy is going to be best spent on deep work you know the deep work and then also You when you're doing something like you were. Where are you might be doing reading? And writing and then teaching you know some people will say the teaching is the deep work right is is every bit as important because you have to be the engaged. That's where you're offering your gift of the world just in a verbal sense as opposed to a written sense. I'm curious as to why you would categorize teaching you. You know as as shallow work and reading and writing and thinking as deep work well. That's that's a good question because what I should clarify I guess is the reason. Ny Teaching tends to anchor. Shallow Day is not the actual time in the classroom. Because I agree when you're actually communicating. That's very deep. What we're doing now? For example. I consider that are deep work or when I'm in front of Front of my students and teaches a class on computational theory that's deep work it's more than teaching brings me to campus and drew once. I'm on campus. Now it's can do office hours. I can do the meetings with students I can do. So it's once I'm on campus and in a I'm here and available my thought is let's batch. Let's make this a day if I'm going to be here and doing other things. Let's make this a day where I do everything I can. which is like? I'm on campus right now recording this I have a full afternoon of meeting scheduling said. Well let me take advantage of that whereas yesterday I was at home all day and work it on one thing deeply the entire day so these blocks the deep and shallow are pretty large blocks and you fit different things into that block that go go into those categories. Yeah that's right they can be. They can be on all sorts. It's a different scales with their offense. They are often quite large. Yeah that makes a lot of sense and that rings true for me. Whenever I've tried to do you know I'm going to do in our ninety minute? Block of deep work. And and then I'm GonNa go do something else it's just really. I don't know what the right word is just difficult to really go deep and stay there because you're constantly getting pulled out out so for me it's gotta be like a day or like you said a week next week. I'm going out to be alone finish manuscript and that would be my deep work week so it sounds like you have the same thing but I love the idea of seasons and that's kind of unique to your profession. It's difficult for other professionals. To have a seasonality. I think to to their battle rhythm but I think that would be interesting to think about right. If you're an executive you know. Can you arrange a sabbatical or something like that. During the summer months Komo go deep on something. Yeah I think I mean I think that would be a good idea. we see seasonality on a on a more of like the weekly scale. We're seeing this. Starting to emerge in software development where for example the sprint methodology has become big where they're recognizing sometimes the right way develop a software product. It is to actually take two or three days and make it clear that this is all. You're doing you're just working on this. You're just doing one thing just going deep And then when this is over it's a completely the different phase. Okay I'm not in a sprint. And maybe we're being logistical planning. And in general though at what I find surprising is that we have a whole economy based off knowledge. Well IT products. We have a whole mass support of our economy. This based on US using our brain to create value and yet we understand so little about the actual. Let's say cognitive or physical best practices.
"cal newport" Discussed on That's What She Said with Sarah Spain
"Inquisition expects the Spanish inquisition. That's right the ten questions. Everybody gets a nobody expects number one. What your desert island album? You can only have one island. I album probably led Zeppelin too. Nice what happened. Or what habit or quality do you think has contributed attributed to your success Diligence by by what I mean. Gene is the Steve Martin definition of diligence. which is is not just about sticking with one thing it's about consistently saying no to everything else? I think that's my a couple of things in my teeth. I'm willing to run with it for a decade or more networks out pretty well so the opposite of me and yet I found success somehow by by virtue of being jack-of-all-trades Trades and master of none. That's fascinating maybe I should try to focus a little more number three. What would you consider your biggest failure but my my the biggest here well I didn't quite do as well. As my. My Contemporary Mark Zuckerberg valuing in doing monetarily right. I would argue that maybe especially currently with some things that are going on politically and otherwise that maybe you're maybe you're thriving. That's probably true. Yeah my my day. Experience is probably less stressful. You right right six. Oh Okay Minneapolis. About about that as far as I know you haven't affected any elections elections lately so for Nowak of trying it turns out the number four. Have you ever been in a fistfight fight As a kid for sure. Yeah but not not as an adult. Not as a grownup I have not been punched as the FE interface. Since it's probably I don't know I was like twelve years old. You definitely have kids. Don't you have three. Yeah Yeah only parents say as a grownup anybody anybody. I don't think I've ever used that unless I was talking to a kid Number five if you could switch live with anyone for a day who would it be. Oh I I just heard an interview with the novelist. Dave Eggers road schedule to schedule He right now he he wakes He reads for two hours and then he sits around with a notebook. They're kinda capture random passages that come to mind and then at some point he might try to write And he has no he does not have a smart. There's no Wifi in his house. So that entire loud completely cut off from the Internet and so after I heard that interview that my first responsive man I wanna be Dave eggers Microsoft. Yeah when you're a grown up yeah he he's from Lake Forest. Which is where I grew up and a heartbreaking work of staggering genius is one of my favorite books He's he's great Number six what's the most embarrassed you've ever been. Oh well I mean I don't know what the most a an issue I have to deal with. A lot is I I have a High Basil Basil but tablets which means I run very hot and I'm not used to wearing suits and so it's a a not uncommon occurrence that I can be like on a stage on a the panel in front of like lots of people and I will just open up like a like a a valve and sweat like I'm I'm meant to be sort of like living in the cool Scottish. Moore's in a kilt or something that I've run too hot to be under lights and suits and that's happened to me Yeah that's that's happened to me more than once I. I'm kind of used to it now. But it's still a little embarrassing when those if you've ever wanted to get a fix for that when you're desperately we need the Guy who host College Game Day for. ESPN wear suits with air conditioning. It's actually blows air through and under under there's suits using some mechanism that I do not understand something you could look into if you're ever in desperate need of of being able to appear without that problem actually exists. I've always wondered that and also. How do the Onfield baseball reporters do it? I've never understood it. They have shoots and it's ninety five degrees at okay great. I'm look I'm here you do. You might have to use a computer to Google but it'll be allowed. It'll be for a purpose. It'll be intentional activity. Yep that's right Number for seven. What's the thing about yourself? You'd most like to improve I. I've been working recently. I'm relatively healthy are but not like I used to be when I was doing college high school athletics. And I'm working on that now I would I wanna be in terms of Like my cardio fitness and Diet I would love to go from five to nine. I've images myself still sort of collegiate rower like once was laws and I'm far from that so I would like to be much more fit once again. There's a lot of APPs for that. If I just get the right right out right out number eight if you could be commissioner of life for a day what one rule would you enforce that everyone would have to adhere to I would say you're have to remove from your phone any application where someone makes money off of your time and attention every time you tap on it and then if we made that one change universal the cognitive productive surplus recreate in this country would be would be phenomenal. You Know Eh. Civic Participation Rise. You'll get healthy again. It would be a I think a phenomenal change for an otherwise relatively small idea. We'd we'd have to call our friends and relatives and see how they're doing wouldn't be role and pretend like we. We know Number nine. What's the most scared you've ever been? Oh probably when I was When I was nineteen years old and I was I was rowing crew and I was I was having this issue with my heart would go really fast? And so they sent me with a sensor could bring with me to hold it to my heart like a portal. Et Gene Rickey recorded. Next time. It happens and you could phone it in because just before the Internet was wireless phone into information and I did that. Then they called and said well You should come to the hospital right now. Come later and you should come right now and I don't walk up stairs. Oh my gosh as possible on the way AH Because you know it turned out it was okay but it was one of few things in one of those. Two things was was going to be the same thing that happens to college. Athletes with a ventricle goes out of control and they drop dead. It might have been that So until they can figure it wasn't. It's not the call you like. Wow that's terrifying. That's that's terrifying number ten. What three words would you most? Hope people would use to describe you I would say Focused good character. I'm GONNA combine those with a hyphen and and and Compassionate or empathetic. Whatever word you would use to describe I you know someone who cares about the other people around him? Yeah that's that's that's good. I like those finally the bonus question. Who would you recommend I have on this podcast? Oh interesting question Well I would say Well well first of all you know the Golfer Rory mcilroy recently mentioned digital minimalism as a something. He's reading helped him with the federal. You're so so you should have an interview with him. That's all you allow him to talk about But no I would. I would say my my friend Ryan holiday if you haven't already create eight new book out. Stillness is the key You know his book obstacle is the way is really have used In the NFL right now among other places but he was really interesting. Philosophical thinker on some how some ancient wisdom applies the modern life. And that's who I would say Ryan Holiday. You gotTa have him on. I'll have among together. They'll be good to talk about. My book actually intersect with both of their lives. And bring them together. Gone on your podcast. Yeah there you go. It'll be like James Corden couch right. I'll just bring disparate people together. And how do they connect to cal. Newport thanks so much for coming on this was really fascinating. Appreciate it my pleasure. That's what she said. It's time once again for South Bitch sessions where I rant about something that bothers me and I fix it this week. People post photos of their wack ass Thanksgiving dinner on social media. Now listen if your family s crappy meals I'm not gonNA hold that against you unless you're actually cooking it. I'm not gonNA fall to that. There isn't a single item on your plate. That isn't Beige. But it is your fault if you decide to post to instagram and expect people to like it and not say terrible things about it. One day if snap. It's probably going to be about this. High going to have a Thanksgiving plate with nothing. Green or orange were literally any color that doesn't match the Turkey meat again. I'm not judging if it's fancy or expensive I'm I'm just saying how the Hell is all your food the same damn color and if it is why are you sharing it. Don't bring shame on your family by broadcasting the beige each right if good about what we accomplished today. If your Thanksgiving plate sucks keep it to yourself. If you're feeling left out I guess go online and steal a pick of something that looks appetizing off Google images and then pretend it's yours but I'm pretty sure cal Newport would tell you that it's not a good use of your time. Hashtag don't broadcast asked the basin fixed if you're looking for another great. ESPN podcast. Checkout laughter. Permitted with Julie Foudy Julius Smart Conversations conversations with interesting people inch loves donuts. Two they come up a lot. Be sure to download and subscribe to laughter permitted. Wherever you get your podcasts if you you gotTA dilemma for the Commissioner Fix tweeted to me at Sarahspain or go to the I tunes or PODCAST APP subscribe to? That's what she said was Sarahspain Rate Review it and leave the dilemma in your review. I might get to it on the PODCAST. Thanks as always for lasting about an hour with me. Well that's what she said..
"cal newport" Discussed on That's What She Said with Sarah Spain
"He's one of the people who Did a blurb for your book and I remember talking to him about multitasking. And the idea of going back and forth between things you feel like you're nailing it but in fact you're making your brain work very hard and you're wasting whatever however many minutes it takes when you get back into the project you're working on you you are wasting all the time reengaging turning your brain back to the folder that it was looking at and it's something as simple switching back to you check your email so I know when I'm writing a long form piece for ESPN. I close all my tabs the only tabs that can be opened our research related. Because I don't want to see a notification in my email I don't Wanna be tempted to look up something else And you talk about that too in terms of our ability to not just focus on work but life and the people around us were just taxing our brains by the constant back and forth we are not good at network switching and and it takes time and we yeah. This is the result that goes back to experiments as early as the nineteen twenties and psychology. Now today we have people like attend. Who can actually get into the neuroscience? Explain what actually actually is happening in the brain. We've known this for a century. It takes time to switch our attention from one thing to another and so if for example you're in a work context. The very worst thing you could do. If your work requires you to produce something complicated is to say okay. work on this. Whatever this script this memo this computer program but we want you like the average worker to switch and check an inbox once every six minutes which is about what the average knowledge worker does not as a recipe for incredibly diminished cognitive kind of output? Because every time you do that quick check your switching your circuit before it completely switches. You try to switch back the whole. Thing gets jumbled it takes a long time for your mind to clear it out and before cleared out. Hf again and create a new jumble. The same thing happens in our personal lives When you're trying to say extract value from spending time in nature with the friend every time you a quick check of a phone glance at an inbox or text message you get this? Jumble of network switching and suddenly the richness of the experience is far diminished. And so we do this enough at all all times at work in their personal life that in general our experience of the world is persistent we diminished. We don't even realize it Intel we try experiments like saying go without your phone for months and then suddenly people it says. If you're taking off there is life different or if you're in work you say spend half your first half of every day no email or something like just do an experiment like that. It's as if you're taking some sort of neurotrophic drug like you're under limitless Tillerson uh-huh well and what we're getting back to is actually normal. We don't realize the degree to which were persistently diminishing experience to this sub normal thing that we we we come to think of is just I guess this is what life is. And it's like when you know wizard of Oz. Goes into color at that fifteen minute mark into the movie. That's what happens when you take just constant context which out of your life well and you acknowledge that. We're still relatively new in the age of the Internet and so we're still not even sure about how using using the Internet in our phones and everything else is actually changing our brains and how they work. There are some studies involving young people who have trouble looking into each other's eyes or who you cut out of a conversation right around the same minute as everybody else their age when they aren't in inspired or used by it and immediately check their phone There's all these studies ladies that are going on now to try to help us understand the ways that were either damaging our brains are not utilizing them. Well but a lot of it hasn't come out right so we're the guinea pigs for all this stuff that we will later find out was deeply damaging to how we function with each other and and all that other stuff so let's quickly go over the steps for this digital declutter it. It starts with thirty days and it's not throw your phone out for thirty days. It's identified the things that you really need and keep those and get rid of everything else. Yeah you're basically taking a break from what I call a optional personal technology so these are the technologies and your personal life that you can step away from for thirty days without it being a big deal so for most people this is like social media streaming videos video games online news things you can step away from Fairmont. That's not gonNA cause a big deal. It's not worth things so it's not an excuse to not answer to your boss email unfortunately and where you have overlapped so like if you're work requires you to do a little bit on facebook. For what say recruiting or something like this. That's fine just put some rules around it not on my phone. I do it on my work computer. I have scheduled for the for the purpose of the Thirty Day. Experiment so you're you're essentially cleaning out your proverbial personal digital closet. Ause it so that you can have that the empty to the best of your ability for about a month and then you define the rules very carefully because if someone needs needs to be on a facebook group because it involves their kids after school project or something or needs to be on a facebook group that that helps promote their brand or works on their brand than they would bookmark the page for that group never entering their personal time line so they can't get looped into the suck of WHO. What's this person writing in whose this person doing doing? Never getting on the feed. Only going to that bookmarked page. Yeah and it would be on your computer. You would take the apps off your phone almost certainly unless you really have to do it on your phone. The tricky thing is text messaging because they plays a incredibly important logistical goal for a lot of people. Hate my daughter. You skip picked up from school. That's how I find out text message but it also can be this constant Distraction so what. A lot of people do in thirty days with text message is if they are expecting a key logistical tax. They'll keep it around. Otherwise they tend to put it on. Do not disturb and maybe check every two hours or something like that so the the worst what happened is that their friends or family trying to reach them might have a bit of latency before they respond so so the things. You can't get rid of all the experiment just put some rules around it and the rules of a different for everybody. So it's about holding yourself accountable right. Don't make it too easy on yourself. Nope I think well I technically need this. I don't even know where I would begin to be honest with you because I feel like my job requires crossing over into all these places. And there's obviously benefits like everyone. Who's listening to this? Is Listening on a podcast right. So maybe you decide that podcasts are not a time suck and door. Don't require bouncing around in wasting time. It's intentional you choose news one you listen to it. Maybe you're accomplishing things. While listening. That might be something that you would allow. Well you could. Maybe you would have during your thirty day. Some sort of a schedule for okay. Listen to podcast during this particular activity but not every activity another hacker. Journalists did which I thought was really interesting. Who's going through something like this is that they actually hired someone to check for relevant breaking news on twitter and the person could they check like once every two hours it it gave you know? Here's the particular I won't say what particular field the journalist was in the particular topics I care about and They could call them if the collar Bro. which by the way is something? I'm surprised that more newsrooms don't do. This really should be like one of the first thing they do is the first year Internet media can raise the monitor twitter behalf of of the journalists. Who have been there longer? So you can get creative. You know Whatever gets you as much sort of space from the conflict companion model as possible is what you're trying to do without it? Being a problem I would have some assistant where I'm like. You didn't tell. Tell me about this. MEME that everyone's saying now I didn't use it on this. TV show and it wasn't funny. It would be very difficult. We need someone who who understands the district very well But I guess that would be that would be the search for the perfect. The Perfect Assistant All right so they've got the tricks that they could do to keep the couple of things they need and other than that they try to do this this full sort of reset and then when they reintroduced things. How does that work right so so crucially before that during the thirty day period? It's not just about some sort of detox effect and if anything I'm really wary about the the sort of appropriation of the word detox in this context During the thirty days before you do do you WanNa be doing is very actively do experimentation reflection getting back in touch with what you really matters what you really like. You know what's really valuable to you. So it's a very active active time when you're rediscovering beyond the world of your phone. What do I actually like to do with my time outside work with actually meaningful? Then when you get to the reintroduction you work backwards of course from what you discovered and so for each of these activities you identified during the thirty days as being really important to you you ask. What's the best way to use? Technology to support court. Amplified as you bring back in that technology you put some rules around it to maximize that benefit and avoid other costs and those answers. That's that's what the fines technology and your personal life going forward so everything that comes back into your wife comes back in for a particular reason. It's essentially the digital equivalent of Mary. CONDO Rondo. I didn't know about Mary condo until after I wrote this book now I know a lot about her essentially the digital equivalent of what she says. which don't just sort of mess around with your closet or take out a few things? uh-huh organizers India down to ourselves then just put back into things that you really care about. That's what you're doing. You're starting from scratch with checking your personal life. This time you rebuild it. You're doing it much more intentionally than the first time around. You bring things back into particular very important purposes and because you know why or just an attack you can put really really good optimization rules around it yeah. MERIE CONDO has down. That system works in that whole sparking thing is very easy but vague way to kind of encompass encompass everything does it spark joy..
"cal newport" Discussed on That's What She Said with Sarah Spain
"You can start to optimize now. You can put rules in place. It will make sure that you get that value. But you don't fall down these traps that have nothing to do with that value. And as soon as people start putting these rules in place optimizing tech for specific specific purposes their entire relationship changes and they go back to two thousand nine iphone type users. They use their tech for these specific high leverage purposes. It gives them huge benefits for the most part. It's not this constant source of distraction. So I mean it seems simple. minimalism is simple. But it's impacts. I've really found to be pretty profound. You work backwards. This is what I WanNa do and then you just look the packers toolbox that you pull things out of very carefully to support these small number of things he really cared about the shift in perspective makes all the difference. Yeah the idea of it being a tool and not a companion and right now for so many of us it's it's essentially a companion. It's who do I talk to one on board who I listen to what I've got nothing else to listen to. Where we we start to create this relationship with our phone that goes beyond using it's specifically for things and instead searching it to find out what might fill our time or what what might be interesting? I want to get to some of the digital minimalism steps. Can you advise for people. But I quickly wanted to have you some some of the things that we're losing out on because of our inability to detach from our phones there's a couple couple things And and starting solitude and why sort of the idea that we're never bored anymore can be bad well so solitude if we used to the definition ah I think is relevant is when you are spending time free from input from other minds so the definition of solitude I care about here is you're not processing another minds outputs you're not talking somebody not listening to something. You're not really something. That type of solitude is absolutely crucial because it used to be essentially the default state default state. Your mind was in your thoughts and observing the world around you then occasion elite you would interact with another human. At which point your mind would go into all hands on deck mode because we're wired to be very social expend a huge amount of resources to manage interactions with other minds as we go into this all hands on deck modell. Let's say have an interaction with a family member or retried number one of the things we have now with the this sort of odd constant companion bottle of smartphones. Is that for the first time in human history. We can banish every last moment of this type of solitude from our life that any possible moment where it might just be us our thoughts and looking at the world around us to look at the screen and there'll be a nice statistical algorithm showing it's something that's been mathematically selected to make us interested the result of this is our brains never get into that default state which they're not at all wired to be. You can't keep your brain revved up in process from other not mine modes all the time. What happens when you try to do that? Things break down with one of the biggest side effects being the sense of anxiety that has become a sort of pervasive background In our in our in our society kind of accepted yeah. We're all this kind of anxious all the time. A lot of that is that we're simply over clocking our brain. They're not meant to always be processing this information. That's sort of misuse of our neuronal hardware. And that's sort of the idea behind meditation right that we need to occasionally a quiet our minds. Whether that's you know in in walking and moving around and trying to focus on one problem or literally meditating and trying to think of nothing. Is this idea that our brains ah break occasionally but you don't even you don't even have to go so far as meditation. It's sufficient just to do stuff throughout the day that you don't have their phone when even if you're just looking around thinking even if your mind it's not clear it's just the fact that it's you and your own thoughts. That's the state that we have to be on a regular basis. Well we used to do that a lot. I remember when I would be on track trips in college. I would sit on a bus and I would stare out the window and think and occasionally I would have journal and the things I thought I would write down. And there's a lot of creativity and space to to solve things this and think about yourself and other people and everything else. When you're not being fed new information constantly which I think is hard because I also am someone who very much likes to use my time to like peak? I talked about my being like Jenga game like I need everything to slide into a little slot because otherwise I won't get it done so if I'm getting my nails done I'm listening to a podcast if I'm working out I'm listening to a radio show to prep from my other show later There's nothing wrong with that right as long as you occasionally get breaks. Yeah as long as I have a similar type of lifestyle but as long as you're regularly scheduling in time where it's just you and your mind and even if it's ten minutes here twenty minutes here or after you shut down at seven or something like just. That's fine while you're trying to avoid is the complete lack of solitude which is incredibly artificial condition. That really wasn't possible until without seven or eight years ago so the opposite of that is also true. We don't need too much solitude. We also need human interaction and the guest. I just I had Jim Hill. Zaki was talking about how the lack of day to day face to face communication because of urban living solo living you know having our pods and everything else else can affect our empathy and kindness toward each other Kate Fagan a colleague of mine. Wrote a book What we made mattie running some of the research and there is about how our actual brains react to talking on the phone versus reading a text versus talking in person and on the phone and in person you at least get some brain activity when you talk to someone you love someone when you love sends you a text about a hard moment? You're going through the brain activity isn't there. You can feel like you've had the same exchange of consolation and kindness but your brain doesn't see it and hear it that way because it actually needs to be triggered by the sound of a voice or you know the the psychosomatic reaction to somebody's face and what they're doing while they're talking to you. That's a huge part of this. Our phones and why there's so much loneliness and mental health issues is we're stepping away from the actual face to face. Communication seems seems to be absolutely true. It helps explain this otherwise paradoxical result that we find again and again that increase social media usage tends to increase loneliness which doesn't make sense on the surface. I mean social media use is a social activity but what seems to be happening is exactly what you're talking about. It's not that being on social media. Yeah that makes you feel only. It's when you replace other types of richer. Social interactions with the social media. You end up with a net loss. I mean all the research is clear. We're incredibly sophisticated. Social animals are our experience of sociology is multi modal to be sure we take an all sorts of different channels of information and the whole thing gets fixed together in different parts of our brain simulate and understand the people were talking to right now for example. I'm really listening to the the timber and pacing of your voice. The careful careful listeners would probably notice that there's some Linden continents going on here. We're actually matching the way that we're pacing the way we talk. This helps create a sense of empathy. So we have the complicated tasted multi modal social computers because this was absolutely crucial to our species. Survival and this complex social computer this evolved over millions of years does not understand glowing ASCII characters on a piece of glass. It probably doesn't know what that is. Just we have no experience with that on any sort of deep evolutionary loosener timescale and so if we take this rich dance that we train our whole lives to do which is to be communicating richly with other humans. And we replace it with ASCII characters and bit met emojis on the small little piece of glass. We think in the frontal CORTEX. I'm out of being so social. I've been on my phone all day long but the rest of this huge complex computer which which is just lying there idle doing nothing. I was like man. We're we're lonely time we've actually communicated with someone I think it's a real issue back with more. That's what she said. Was Sarah Spain in just.
"cal newport" Discussed on That's What She Said with Sarah Spain
"Comes up so hope you enjoy. That's what she said super excited to have cal. Newport on the PODCAST I'm sure. Regulators will see a theme bouncing around from people who engage with each other comment on each other recommend each other for the podcast and and cal came recommended because a lot of what he's written about in his books has come up in conversation on this podcast I WANNA start with way back when in growing up and how you how you found yourself to become an expert on how to work well and now on digital minimalism. So let's talk about being a kid. What kind of kid were you had a nerdy tech science guy from the start? Yeah always a computer nerd. My mom was a computer programmer when I was growing up so I was exposed to programming at a young age. So I I always had a computer hacking on the computer from a young age Also though was involved in other things awesome well quite a social guy was a mid distance varsity track athletes. So I had the life that pulled in a lot of different strands. So I could you you know come from the track back to my high school tech company onto a computer back out to the the exercise room so it definitely an unusual but interesting mixture texture of traits when I was growing up. And where did you grow up mainly in New Jersey near Princeton New Jersey. Okay so you're you're you're balancing the track stuff. I was collegiate heptathlete. So your Your mid distance stuff was always the the bane of my existence but a part of my training training so you. You're bouncing all this stuff. At what point are you a teenager who decides you WanNa Start Your own business. Well the thing to keep in mind about that the timeline which is this is the late nineteen nineties. We're talking about. which was the first tech BOOB? This was the tech boom with pets dot com and Web van. That first time with the Nasdaq was going crazy. And one of the weird side effects of that first tech boom is that otherwise reasonable adults. Figured figured that it made a lot of sense to hire teenagers to watch that contract. There's just a sense of I duNNo. Don't young people know a lot about technology. let's give a lot of money Johny to the sixteen year old who design our website pillar web strategy. I think it was one of the rare windows in the history of business where people would actually think it was a good idea. Yeah Sign Contracts with people who are so young that their dad had the drive them through the meeting so I took advantage of it. I don't do that now with social media. Because they know that they I don't get it so they have to hire young people to explain to them how to be on Tick Tock and how to best sell their social media APPs to other young people. It's funny you mention Napa is Saturday night live always runs an old episode before the new one now shortened version and they ran an old jerry. Seinfeld David Bowie episode from Nineteen. Ninety nine this this past Saturday and there was a sketch for some sort of I think it was. Maybe a law firm but they were late getting to the web and they weren't in a rush and so their website was something awful. Awful like tiny baby penises dot com or something and it was just sort of how absurd the Internet and I can tell you exactly what it was clown. Tina Start Art cloudiness dot fart. I don't know where he came. Up with baby penises. I knew the penis was in there. Yeah and it's funny. I was just I was just thinking eating how incredibly distant that feels. Now the idea of like oh well. We missed the the website with our names. So this is what we're stuck with and it reminded me when I was reading your book you talked about and I'm only going to skip ahead for a second. You talked about the introduction of the iphone and it was essentially an ipod that you could call people on and I completely forgot the introduction of the iphone as being that simplistic and not being about all the things we use it for. You know things move so fast. I mean I went went back when working on that section of the book and talk to the original head engineer. Who worked under jobs on it? And that's what he confirmed. It was an ipod that made calls. The big problem. Solving is that people used to have their ipod and their Nokia Razor. That's two separate devices you'd have in your pocket. There's too much stuff in your pocket and the iphone was what's going to combine them into one and that was the original marketing. Push forget about it. I think it's a great example of how quick how quick things have been moving in this particular regular world of consumer facing tech. Yeah Okay so back to your. I believe seventeen years old and you decide to start a tech company. What was the goal? What did you think you are solving? elving what problem. Nothing that exciting on the surface right on the circus. We were doing essentially website development for companies. Now the big insight right that that I had with my my business partner was my girlfriend Michael Simons big insight. was we figured out early. About outsourcing and so what we were doing as we were going to these meetings and our ills that suits and had the laminated spiral bound pitch books and then we had teams in Pakistan and India. That would do most most of the actual graphic design and development. So we were sort of early to this idea that there was this arbitrage at the time the sort of huge inefficiency and that you had a- ah excess number of heavily train graphic designers and programmers overseas without a rough work and so we were playing that arbitrage game and making the big high profit margins. Doing it what did your parents. I mean your mom's obviously a computer programmer. So is she like. Oh good following the family footsteps or were they concerned about you already diving moving into the business world. Well I think they were fine with the computer programming stuff so you know. I was a programming nerd and I was taking CS courses at Princeton in high school. That type of thing the business. I'm sure made them a little nervous. Especially when there was contracts involved in a lot of money changing hands and interesting remember. Remember the the thing to remember valley nine hundred ninety eight or nineteen ninety nine is not only were there no smartphones. But we didn't have cell phones right so I was running this business in an age where I was either in school or at practice for most of the working days. That's what made it particularly interesting. Is that we had to run a business talk about lack of accessibility. I literally couldn't couldn't be reached for maybe ninety percent of the hours in in the workday so it required a lot of creativity I missed a lot of school and got in some trouble for that because it has been a business meetings and etc but they luckily let me graduate nonetheless. So it's clear from a young age you figured out some some work hacks and some ways to be successful successful. Which is why you started writing books about how to win at college to become a straight a student how to be a high school superstar all that stuff and you wrote those sort of after your own educational educational career Undergrad at Dartmouth your PhD from Mit? And while you're in in your own academia what did you think that you wanted to do with the computer science and with your studying of of sort of how that how that relates to everyday life. Well at first the idea was I wanted it. Just be an academic computer scientists. So when you're studying any field at a high level the ultimate goal this is the message you get from professors. You're studying under is to be the an academic to do original research to push the field forward and so once. I realized maybe halfway in my undergraduate career that maybe had a shot at an academic career in computer science that that became my goal that life style the autonomy of being a professor is what I was what I was looking for. I was writing in books at the same time. But it wasn't until later until later in my Grad student career that the two worlds came together at first it was. I was training to be a computer scientist. Oh and I I also wrote books. Those worlds were completely separate. My doctoral advisor discovered. I wrote books because she came across one at a table at the bookstore. She had no shot just doing the side as well and so they were really separate worlds and then they all kind of came together once. I got the Georgetown and professorship when I realized wait a second I work on technology. I'm also really interested on the impact of technology on society. I could probably be writing about this stuff that I'm also workout and writing about the broader impacts and so those worlds came together gather and and now there's a great conciliates between what I'm doing academic as a writer but until recently quite separate. Yeah Yeah I mean it's it's there's that academia academia and the computer science stuff that would connect you to all the people that also work in that field. And maybe not a lot of other people whereas when you're incorporating the study of communications occasions and how it affects our everyday life in our work. Suddenly you've opened yourself up to the everyday person who who is learning from your expertise without necessarily needing to understand all the stuff that goes into and all the research that Gotcha there so you. You're writing books and you end up back in two thousand sixteen writing deep work rules for focused. Success asked an distracted world. This feels to me like a pivot point for you in understanding The very current conflicts for people in staying focused doing the job job workplace productivity and all these new technologies So tell me how deep work sort of a very short description because I want. I want to get from that to the newer book right. So the idea behind deep work is that In the knowledge sector in particular which is about fifty percent of the US economy right now. The ability to focus without distraction is being widely undervalue. That we're we're very distracted with email and slack and personal digital tech Heckler. Social Media in our attention bounces back and forth all the time and we are forgetting value in sustained attention and so the argument of that book is that this is market mismatch. That's right. This is something that we're getting worse at the same time. It is becoming more valuable so that if you specifically train yourself to be an extra concentrator or if your team organization are your ties is unbroken concentration. It's sort of unfair competitive advantage right now. Yeah so I mean this was a huge thing for so many people and I think a a lot of people were even very slowly able to step outside their bodies and recognize their their their difficulty in focus. There's been some really interesting stories about people people struggling to read books because they have trouble focusing on that for a long time when they're so used to these snippets on the Internet. So you're you right deep at work and the response of so many people to you about social media and technology and how they struggle to balance that with the messages of your book are what led to the digital minimalism right. Yeah because people work was really focused on the workplace it was unintentional consequences of new technologies in the workplace. And this was the big feedback feedback. I began to get from readers after the book came out which was okay. Maybe we by this. But what about the impact of tech and are personalized which was really really focused. Much more on things like phones and social media and the attention economy which is actually quite different than what's going on. Let's say in an office place with your email or slack and so I was getting a lot of pressure from the readers. Okay but what do we do about tech in our personal. It was really something that was becoming clearly a problem in our culture especially starting around two thousand seventeen where it really began to uptick. And so that's what they're digital minimalism was okay. Let's turn from work to people's personal life and find out what they're taking what they should do about it. Well you are. You're thirty eight thirty thirty seven. Thirty eight Sir okay. So you're thirty seven you've never had social media accounts I. I'm not sure how that's possible were you were you so aware before we even learned of all the dangers that you never put your toe in the water. Or how is it possible that you never joined facebook facebook twitter and everything else well..
"cal newport" Discussed on The Ziglar Show
"Does that was that have to do with technology and what he said was once. He's he stepped away from. I just blindly used these tools is not i just did it freed up more time for him but it changed his mind set said okay when i take away the idea that this phone is just an escape something i do that just fill my time so i don't don't have to confront the world. They don't have to confront my- value. They don't have to confront my life. Would he took away that option. He had no other course but to take seriously what i really wanted to do. And it introduced a sort of intention discipline in his life there's completely transformed completely transformed them and that's that's the the bigger danger of this tech and the bigger value of becoming intentional about it. It's not just that it. It eats up a lot of time. It's not just a distraction the moment from things that are more valuable but it puts awesome to this head space where we don't have to confront our life is i can just do this. I can just look at the screen when i feel a little uncomfortable when i feel a little bit sad vowed feel a little bit like i'm not living up to my potential when when the world is seems too hard when i thought i don't want to confront if you can constantly escape that no progress made and so leaving that world of the screen is an escape from me when you leave that world life gets a little bit harder in the short term but then it becomes much more fantastic into long-term because you actually embrace where you are and what you wanna do it just makes me think back again to the boredom issue when we're or at home and it's the weekend and we tell the kids no screens their board for a minute uncomfortable for a minute and then they go build a treehouse or are they create a fantasy game in their heads and they're running around the yard and it's the same way with me. I love the way that you put that so my action next cal just so you know the rest of the day for day i mean i have a new philosophy and it is when i'm doing those deep work because there is the time when i'm making decisions pulling poland triggers and i'm doing that and there's great value in that but i also i'm a maker in what i do. I create things when i do that. I have got to shut down my email email. Four different email accounts for different business endeavors. They're always up and it's always a draw and i am letting it get into my deep at work and at attention residue. It's just so convicting. I'm so grateful for the message you put out here and is this i mean as you're on these lines this the vein you see yourself continuing down as technology evolves and you're part of it the good side of it but that you are. We're going to be a piper in essence of bringing us back to health within it. Yes i think i think the the impact of tekken culture the unintended consequences and how get past estimates something. I'm really interested in so i can tell you now working on a new book and the working title is a world without email and i am i am tackling head on all of the unintentional consequences that happened when we introduced low friction digital communication to the workplace and then just said and i'm going to say what what happened. My theory is <hes>. It spun our work. Cultures knowledge work in the places that are sort of a ah spectacularly unproductive and that the future is going to be a future where this idea that we just have email addresses and slack channels. We just rock and roll. We're gonna move past. It and work is going to get more structured and five years from now you know kevin's not gonna have just for email addresses that he mantras all the time. There's going to be more structure there. There's gonna be actual. This has happened with this process. I don't do this anymore..
"cal newport" Discussed on The Ziglar Show
"I think we all need to hear this message so here. I i bring you cal newport or i cast so you are a professor of computer science somewhat or at least by face value. I've read the books. I know that there's a backstory but face value looks like you're doing technology to a degree and with especially with deep work and then on into the digital minimalism what was the catalyst in your own life that really set you on this path of as you say the intersection of technology and society well. I mean i think as a technologist a little bit more sensitive to technology and his role in our lives. I'm more sensitive to when i see technology being. Let's say misused or houston away that we're not getting benefits out of it. It seems like a wasted opportunity to me so my life has been a swirl of technology and future ism. I'm very interested in the potential of these tools but it means i'm a pretty critical customer and so when i look around and see a particular place where some tech is intersecting with culture and causing more harm than good or is being used in a way that is missing out and all the real potential of that particular underlying technology. I get a little bit upset ed about it. I start writing about start thinking about it and so to me. It's a pretty natural role who better to be talking about these issues than someone whose life is surrounded by okay well in that what you said there i mean you've obviously got a care for humanity in this and you're in meshed i in it again but when you step back on both of these books specifically and say what is if i ask you what is the main benefit as you our. I should say the burden you know. We always talk about passionate passionate. Sometimes i find myself in my work trying to address people in something kind of burdened that they're hurting or are there not flourishing in and almost felt like that a little bit as i read through your stuff. What is the burden that you overall feel as you look out the culture and see what's happening well. I i think the age of digital communication networks brought unique burdens to our work life and to our personal life and they seem similar on the surface but they actually underneath neath have some pretty different causes going on and so in our work life what happened was at least in my opinion is that we brought in low friction digital communication to the workplace i hi can now reach someone very easily by let's say typing a message in hang sinned on an email or like slacker instant messenger window which seemed on the surface to be of course this is positive. We're we're we're taking something. We're already doing communication and we're making it. We're making it easier but ahead a lot of unintended consequences and ended up in the workplace especially in knowledge work essentially intially completely reorganizing the way we approached our obligations in our jobs and our jobs became much more about this continuous ongoing unstructured conversation which actually made our brains worse at producing the value that we've been hired to do so in the workplace we have this unintentional consequence where networks plus knowledge work work meant that we accidentally made ourselves knowledge work and then in our personalized. We have a completely different thing going on which is the rise of highly irresistible bowl attention economy products offered to our phones transformed our relationship with this technology to the point where we realized that we were being pulled away from things that were important to us in our life outside of work and so both in working outside a work the age of networks have unintentionally brought on these opportunities for us to be distracted from things that are more important so i'm curious in your professor ship in your teaching there is this has had these messages become part of your own teaching gene platform. I assume they have to but is that what you're known for even amongst the students well you know i i had to separate trajectories here that increasingly are coming coming together and so i'm a computer.
"cal newport" Discussed on WNYC 93.9 FM
"Addiction to email cal Newport wrote the piece which describes this moment and workplace history as one where we all frantically trucker inboxes every few minutes exhausted by the dilution of complex and ambiguous messages while applauding ourselves for eliminating the need to speak face to face yep guilty as charged we'll happily cal Newport is also a computer science professor at Georgetown and he has some thoughts about how we got here and how we might do it better cal Newport welcome thank you for having me so we're gonna get to the evils of email but start with the story that opens your essay we are deep inside CIA headquarters it's the nineteen sixties and nestled inside the walls are something like thirty miles of steel tubing why what was a fourth communication and in particular communication that is asynchronous away for me to send a message to over a hundred fifty different stations in the headquarters where it can arrive in be there waiting for the recipient to read it so they essentially built email but using pneumatic tubes and fibre glass containers electromagnetic switches we're talking about this because as you mentioned this was a prime early example of asynchronous messaging which I gather basically was about convenience I can write you when I feel like it you can reply when you want this was seen as a silver bullet for a really big problem that emerged in the twentieth century which was work spaces that used to just be for five people if I needed something I would just talk to but in the twentieth century we saw the arrival of very large offices and very large organizations and so the problem was how do we coordinate and collaborate when there's eight hundred a thousand two thousand or less in the same building in a synchrony was seen as the magic solution so very systems were tried we're still trying to figure out the perfect system but in the mean time in the late twentieth century email arrives and it's like the killer app of asynchronous communication yeah we assumed this would solve the problem I mean the pneumatic tubes or what have you was interesting but very few organizations could actually afford to build these but email any organization could have everyone could send messages to everyone else when they wanted instantaneously have them be read when the recipient was ready this was seen as the thing that was going to solve the problem of collaboration and big organizations which is why it's spread incredibly rapidly into essentially every corner of knowledge work sound so promising and delightful except as anyone who's ever had an email account news email is great for many things but collaboration and one of them yeah unintended consequences so it turned out that during this same period where people in the world of business thought a synchrony was going to solve all these problems there was mathematicians in my field that were studying a synchrony in computer networks and finding out when you get rid of real time back and forth conversation suddenly becomes much harder to collaborate it's much more subtle it requires much more messages and it just takes longer that experience we've all had of sending two dozen messages back and forth when you could have just picked up your phone or leaned out your cubicle and holler you work right yeah that's right we thought that we could take a five minute conversation replace with one quick email message but the reality is that five minute conversation required fifteen back and forth email messages throughout the day so we soon found ourselves overwhelmed by the massive increase in messages what does that mean for those of us who are sitting here twitching to check our email in practical terms how should we be communicating well what we know is that humans are much better at back and forth in real time so on the phone sing together in the same room on video chat where you can actually go back and forth where I say something and I know that you hear it right away and you can respond right away we can look at our body language we can look at our cues we can look at how our voices changing volume modulation this is an incredibly efficient way for human beings according collaborate so what is the solution we stop checking email so much and pick up our phone more well what I found is that going back to synchrony successfully in the world of business requires structure so if you just say get on the phone more useless email that's probably not going to work but if you have systems in place this is how we collaborate this is we have these meetings at these times here's how we set up this meeting so they don't become long and full of blue VA sent this type of structured synchrony is starting to have a come back in the world of business and people are finding that they're getting by with much less messaging you also write about the old fashioned notion of office hours I'm available at this time I can talk to face to face if you can't come during my office hours too bad to solve your problem or.
"cal newport" Discussed on Love Your Work
"We're living in a time of exciting technological innovation, but just because technology can do something does that mean that it should do that. Something Cal Newport is the author of the new book, digital minimalism, choosing a focused life in a noisy world and digital minimalism as the name might implies a philosophy of using the power of technology. Only in the ways that it serves us bests, while eliminating use of technology in ways that actually harm us, or sometimes even in ways that only have a marginal benefit aside, from digital minimalism Cal Newport is an extremely prolific author. He's written books, such as so good. They can't ignore you deep work and how to become a straight as student. He's also a tenured computer science professor at Georgetown University. He's really somebody who makes you feel like you don't get very much done. Cal has accomplished all of this in spite of or maybe because he has never had a single social media account. They'll I gotta wonder I mean, he's gotta have EV must visit Twitter every once in a while, you must have some secret accounts where I think, anyway, this is a fantastic conversation with Cal, he, and I over lab, a lot in our interests. And the way we think about things. So I was really eager to discuss with him the implications of technology use to dig deeper into his relationship with deep work. And if you listen to love your work regularly, do you know that I'm always searching for ways to get more out of my mind and emotion for ways to maintain a healthy relationship with technology, because when you're doing creative work, you need to use technology? Maybe you don't need to use technology..
"cal newport" Discussed on 10% Happier with Dan Harris
"And yet, we're still doing well in college admissions. Maybe it's relevant today, and I was like, hey, look at this example, it's possibly like adorable. Interesting person at still go through college admissions without because he stressed out and it's so good. The category, you deep work add more most recently digital minimalism. Thank you, sir. Great. Okay. That was Cal Newport. That was a great conversation. Really? Appreciate him coming on time for the voice mails actually should be voice mail. Singular this week because as, as mentioned at the top of the show, we've got a special one, I got a tweet recently from some six graders from prairie waters elementary school in Alberta Canada, every year, the sixth graders there, get to do a big nine week project, the names of the girls who reached out to. Me were Angela, I and a new, and they're doing a project about minimalism and they want they sent me a tweet. They want me to answer some questions, or they wanted to call me up and asked me some questions. And I said, you know what? Call the voicemail line in all answer the questions for everybody. So here's their voice mail. I s the new, enter, we are working on a project called exhibition way. We search system topic may choose medals at their topic. Question one. How does it all feeling to what did the easiest part as been with them three? What are the hood is cut of Manolas of for why has some five? How does minimalism sectors jets? How does minimalism affect you as family? Who would you consider yourself as an in the most? Why, why are you interested in men of them? Now, I says minimalism make you more independent ten how did he just come in? Eleven. Why inside right? Tencent. Happiest thank you again for your time. Thank you. Incredibly cute. Thank you for the question is a great question. Let me just say, I don't before I get more granular with you. I don't know that I would call myself a minimalist. I didn't even really know what minimalism was until shortly after I wrote ten percent happier when I was saying yes to anybody who wanted to remain now a little bit more protective of my time. But that, that point there was I got an interview put on my calendar. From some, some guys called the minimalists. They didn't actually come to my office. But they said to camera crew into my office, they were working on a documentary about minimalism, meaning living with less not being so focused on consumerism it cetera et cetera. And they want to interview me, and I it was opened with the fact that I'm pretty much maximalist and they said they didn't care. They want to do the interview anyway, and I remember thinking, I was doing this interview this will never see the light of day, I don't know why I'm doing this, but I did it and they were interesting questions..
"cal newport" Discussed on The School of Greatness with Lewis Howes
"Back to the school. Bring this podcast very excited about this got Cal Newport in the house get to see a man Louis. My pleasure excited you had a book come out years ago. Wouldn't that come out two thousand six hundred sixteen called deep work, and it argues that focus is the new I q in the modern workplace because we have so much social media distracting us and focus is something that is kind of like a loss commodity. I guess it's something that is a lost. Art. No one knows how to focus for more than two seconds. Yeah. Well, there was to force is going on. So focus is becoming more valuable sort of unrelated to this other tech just because our economy is increasingly shifting towards high level, knowledge work, right? We sort of outsource our automate, the low level knowledge work, but the stuff that really requires some creativity or thinking original thought that's getting more important in our economy. Right. So if you can focus it really helps you. Produce this type of value. But at the same time sort of unrelated to that trend we're getting worse at concentrating because we have this going on. All right. We're looking at the screen, then also Email culture within work. So it was sort of supply and demand focused becoming more valuable at the exact same time that is becoming more rare. And so the book was about, hey, if you're one of the few people that cultivates this thing, you're gonna have a huge advantage sort of a sort of disproportionate advantage. Yeah. You're going to be like the wealthy of value. Yes. Because there's only so many people that actually able to focus and and write a book that's got deep work and make a movie or do something that takes a year two years three years. Yeah. The time and energy to go into something. One piece of work to make it magical is so much harder to do. Yeah. But it's very valuable very valuable, but as practiced as well. And so the book was sort of about we've forgotten how valuable focuses and we've forgotten what it takes to be good at it. What's it? Take to be good at focus. Well, I mean people think about it like a habit really lossing their teeth. Everyone thinks like I know how to focus the problem is. I'm just not doing it enough. I should try to make more time to do it. But it's really more like a skill like if you practice it's like playing guitar what you practice it. You can be better at if you don't practice it. You're not going to be very good at it. Even if you put aside the time, and you lock away all your devices and here, I am. I mean, the cave I'm gonna write my book if you haven't been practicing it it's not going to go very well. Right. And so there's sort of essentially like cognitive athletics. You can actually go in there and train this capability, and you kind of have to there's a lot different elements to how you do it the training focused training. How what's for someone who's obsessed with social media checks Email twenty times a day who always feels like they're behind? Yeah. And you're working till eight nine ten o'clock at night because they haven't done focused work during the day. What are some steps that they could start with? Yeah. Well, it's sort of like with athletics, there's general fitness, and then the actual training this skill zeal. Yeah. So cognitive fitness means among other things. Brain needs to be comfortable with being bored. I mean, if it's been trained that every time you get a little bit bored, shiny treat the stimuli..
Does Cold Emailing Work in 2019?
"What's cold emailing? Waltz emailing somebody you've never spoken to before online or offline to see if you can do business with each other reaching now with an offer reason an attempt to build a business relationship. I get a ton of cold emails everyday in my inbox people emailing the pitching me their businesses pitching me their products their services asking, hey, can we work together? And I've never spoken to them before not in person. Not on the phone not on a video, call not on Twitter on Facebook, not through. Another mutual friend. So do these emails work, do they actually trigger somebody's interest to say, hey, I'll get this person a shot or are those days over this cold emailing a bad idea into nineteen? That's what we get into in today's lesson. So sit tight because we're going to tackle this one in ten minutes. Let's get into it. Let's get down to business. You've heard me talk about the Jordan harbinger show before. It's a great podcast. And I am lucky to have Jordan here right now to ask him a question that I've been wanting to ask him for so long because the show is so amazing. He interviews so many high-performers from high ranking military officials to celebrities to actors I want to ask him. What is one thing that stands out all the all the interview done? What is the one thing that you took away from all these interviews one like life hack, golden nugget that you have implemented in your life. Recently. I interviewed Cal Newport who wrote a book called digital minimalism, and it's not just like detox get off social media. Sure, there's some of that. But he talks about finding the best tool for the job, which for a business owner is absolutely crucial and one of the concepts that he gets into is that focus is the new I q. So it's hard to make yourself smarter. You can make yourself efficient up to a point where all extremely efficient in many ways. But. A lot of us are distracted. So focus is the new I q and that kind of that was one of those moments where I was like, oh my gosh. My head exploded. Because you don't just need better tools. You don't just need better concepts or whatever. But if you could actually pay attention to something and not get distracted for hours or a day, you can complete. What seemed like now superhuman feats just hearing you say that and talking by that episode. I wanna subscribe and listen to the episode right now. So everybody do the same and get so much gold so much amazing content from the Jordan Harper show by hitting subscribe right now. Full transparency. I took a look at my Email inbox, and I looked at all my cold emails in the last two years and they're over two hundred and fifty emails that's like three cold emails a week. Now, this is two hundred and fifty different senders different people. This is not including spam. Like, these are legitimate people legitimate businesses. This is not somebody trying to sell me pharmaceutical pills, right? These are people that mentioned me by name mentioned, the podcast mention our business and out of those two hundred and fifty emails two hundred fifty people I replied five times five times. That's like less than two percent, right? Why did I reply to those five emails will they may have caught my interest? I may have heard of the person before you've never met. Maybe I've heard of the company or the person send it to me. But at the end of the five is not a good number. So I gotta ask why don't I reply to these emails, and why do they not work, and how could they? Work. How can a cold Email actually work for somebody? Well, I we have to start with the premise that when you're trying to reach out to somebody that is important that you want to work with as of significance chances. Are that person is busy your Email is not under agenda for today? They have other things on their to do list. Okay. So how do you get on their to do list? A cold Email just simply doesn't do it. Okay. Even if you've written it, so well, and it's so enticing in very few of us have that type of copy
"cal newport" Discussed on Beyond the To Do List
"Uh? Hello, welcome back to beyond the to do list. I'm your host Eric Fisher. This is the show where I talked to the people behind the productivity this week. I'm thrilled to be able to share another conversation that I had with Cal Newport Calvin on the show before he's probably best known for his book, deep work. We've talked about that in the past. I list that and the show notes for this episode. We also had a bridge conversation. A few months back talking about bridging from deep work into his new book digital minimalism this week. He's actually here talking specifically about digital minimalism, and how to choose a focused life in a noisy world now before you get to far into assuming what this book is about. It is not just saying, hey, get off your screen, stop using social media. It's not that simple. And I love being able to have a conversation with Cal about the nuance that is intentional digital technology use in the modern age. So if that interests you you're in for a great conversation with Cal Newport. Well this week. It is definitely my privilege to welcome back for the third time. Cal newport. Cal welcome back. Eric, it's always a pleasure to talk with you. So I'm going to be honest and say that you're talking about digital minimalism. And yet, you're a professor of computer science, some people might say that there's an issue there. I don't really see you probably don't either. I think it's probably part of your job. Right. I think so who better to talk about the the interaction of technology culture that someone who works with technology. I mean, we don't we know what just a guy at the woods. Come out of his cabin typewritten page. Like, I have my thoughts on what we should do with ecology. So I see as part of my job pure science, professor at technology. The public face work was packed of these technologies. Well, and so you've been on the show before we've talked about so great. They can't ignore you. We've talked about deep work, and we then bridged a little bit into this digital minimalism. Obviously, the whole digital minimalism thing. I mean, you were aware of it already. I'm sure but part of why you went further down into that road, confirmation wise really was that so many people coming up to you and saying yet deep work is great. But like that's for my professional life. How my supposed to focus in my personal life right at the issues were different. I mean, uh the surfaces. Similar people who read deep work said, I agree with you. Or I doubt about the impact of technology by professional life. I've seed similar issues with technology by personal life. It's having these unintended consequences, which are not. Positive and so the surface. It's okay. It's a similar technologies has changed the way we live at work. But the other light forces really worked to save the type of things I was talking about a deep work which had a lot to do with backs of ice at your cognitive value in the marketplace of these type of business jargon type goals. Did it really seem to apply at so the topics were similar so that's why I was hearing about it. But the diagnosis at the prescriptions were quite different. That's what may be. Okay. I think I have to get into this. Maybe right completely different book. Yeah. Well, and so you're using a word here that people listen to this show should be familiar with or if or if they read, you know, personal branding blogs out there. They're familiar with the word minimalism..
"cal newport" Discussed on The Jordan Harbinger Show
"Or if you're like, look, I don't answer text or whatever the reality is people don't care. They're not thinking that much about you know, they adapt really quickly. And so I'm one of these people my family knows it. He sent me a text message. It's a very low probability that I'm going to see it an answer. Right. Like a look at my phone a few times during the day or something like that. Or they just expect like, okay, I don't expect that it's like just ten years ago. I don't expect Cal is always next to his phone, and they've sort of adopted they don't don't care there's sort of used to it. So people adapt is essentially what I'm saying is if you switch to a lifestyle, which I recommend where you sometimes have your phone, and you sometimes don't. You're not always reachable nothing bad happens, and you gain huge positive such as time alone with your own thoughts, which turns to be turned out to be crucial to flourishing and people aren't thinking about you as much as you think they are. They're not sending their stewing like Jordan. He thinks that he can they don't care. They're also we're training people to they get three people frame like great, Jordan doesn't always have his phone. I got it. I I don't expect won't last minute Texan if I need something, and then they move on. Right. And now you've gained back a lot of solitude and undistracted time. And so these seem like small small hacks or maybe scary hacks, but they work really well Cal Newport digital minimalism. Thank you very much like you. Jason. So you did some of the digital minimalism stuff, and it's different than detox. Right. It's not just like, hey, stop using social media. It's completely different system. Yeah. It's a great system to I have dialed back. I followed Cal steps in have been dialing everything back. I'm doing it for thirty days. And I have found that I am much better off without a lot of the things that were on my phone and even on my ipad. I've dialed it back. It only have certain things that I need to do for work that make my life better. And I love the book. I devoured the book. I've given a couple of copies out to some of my friends who really needed it. And I think almost everybody actually really needs it now. And this is great advice. I've loved cow stuff for years is deep work stuff has been fantastic. And this is just another add onto his like awesome library of just taking back your mind. Yeah. I like that taking back your mind. It really is kind of what he specializes in. So definitely check out digital minimalism. I was talking with Charlemagne the God. While I was in New York, if you don't know who he is super popular FM radio DJ talk show host interviewer, and he was freaking out about digital minimalism. He's like this is going to be a game changer. There's gonna change the world like he was really excited about this. And he he just because this is a guy who gets ten thousand tweets a week, literally probably and has millions of followers on Instagram, and he's like, you know, what I'm just not going to do this. And he changed the way that he uses that stuff. He actually ended up deleting his Twitter because as you can imagine when you're a hip, hop interviewer. And you have a Twitter it's just a cesspool. And it was making him feel awful. But the steps are different for everybody there based on your needs. And so this for him. This for me was just a really big deal digital minimalism will link to it in the show notes. And if you want to know how I managed to book all these great people and manage my relationships using systems tiny habits and not a lot of social media, not a lot of clutter checkout six minute net. Working. It's a course that I made to replace level one. It is free. It's over at Jordan. Harbinger dot com, slash course. And it's got new drills new exercises..
"cal newport" Discussed on The Jordan Harbinger Show
"All right. Here's cal. Newport. One thing that I love about the minimalist idea. Here is focuses the new IQ is one of the things that you'd said explain that it's counterintuitive and I love that. Well. I mean, I think in our our modern knowledge economy in particular. What's the skill that, really matters? What's the skill that builds value, and I think it is the ability to focus so if in the mid twentieth century, I q became the big thing we need more engineers people who were smart smart. You are the bed. You're going to do it shifted now. And now the ability to put sustained attention is what's going to become the scarce ability to thing that's going to create a lot of there's various reasons for this. But but this is the the summary pitch is focused as what's going to rule the economy, at least, that's my idea. Okay. And you're sort of analog to this is like the key to thriving in this new high tech world that we have is actually using less tech because the tech this high this Archimedes lever that we have is now kind of come full circle and is now weighing down, right? It's like resting on our head. Yeah. Well, I mean, if you think about if you believe this premise that sustained concentration produce lots of value. Now, you have to worry what's going to be the enemy to sustain concentration. And so it's not technology in general. It's the technology that has either been designed or incidentally, becomes a huge drain on your attention. So what we know from psychology? And this is actually very important discovery. And this is something that we only really got to in the last. Let's say fifteen years context. Which is what kills you write the context? Switching is. And I remember first hearing about this in law school because it was like I'm taking notes they got an IM back to my notes. What are we talking about? Hey, there's another I IM. Yes. For those of you don't know what I are AOL instant messenger change to the game. That did that come before texting. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. That was early nineties. So that was like the first status updates were on their this is pre Facebook by minute. And so that's where I finally started to realize when I would read things like context witching or task switching or the whole. Hey, you know, you think you're a good multitasker? But you're not. And then I remember asking people going, hey, you know, our teacher will go turn that internet off. Don't use the WI fi. We don't even why don't we have WI fi in the classroom. And of course, everyone went I'm good multitasker. Everyone's grades went and took a total dump well and shifted to. So we used to say that. So we used to say, I'm a good multitasker. And then in the early two thousands, the research became clear, and there's lots of pop articles to sit. Okay. You can't do the simultaneous thing though. The window here. The phone the typing you're talking gibberish. You're doing a terrible work like we learned. Okay. Literal multitasking doesn't work, but we're context witching snuck up on us is that people thought they were single tasking. This is what's happening now because they only have one thing open for the most part. So I'm just looking at Microsoft Word. I'm trying to write whatever illegal brief. But every ten or fifteen minutes. I do the quick check. Which is the look the phone or the quick check of the inbox. It doesn't feel like multitasking because I'm not doing it simultaneously. But we know now from the research is that when I do that quick check. And then come back to the main thing, I'm working on. There's a residue left in your mind. Mind last a long time the clear that reduces your cognitive capacity. So then when you think you're single tasking, you're fighting this attention residue effect. And so what most knowledge workers who are doing sort of elite level knowledge or can think that they're single Tasker are really doing is every five or ten minutes, a quick check of a tab or a phone which puts them in a persistent state of produce cognitive capacity. So it's almost like they're taking reverse. No atropine. Like wanna be dumber? Right..
"cal newport" Discussed on The Ezra Klein Show
"Com. Here is called Newport Cal Newport, full come back to the guest. Thank you as always a pleasure to talk with you. So I wanted to begin with solitude. You have a definition of it in the book that I like can you can you talk a bit about that? Yeah. The definition I use I actually borrowed from a book called lead yourself first, which has to do with solitude in leadership. It's actually co-authored of all people by Raymond Catholic one of the. The judges on these sort list for the supreme court last cycle around. So that's a little bit of interesting trivia, but it's this book on leadership, and it had a definition of solitude that really resonated with me, which is freedom from inputs from other minds. And I thought that was interesting because a lot of people think solitude in terms of ice elation and my far away from other people and my far away from stimuli and my up in a cabin in the woods. But the the definition that I took from there is no, no, it's about what is your mind processing. And so if you're processing input from another mind so looking at your phone reading something talking to someone sorry to say listening to a podcast any of this means you're not in use shut your mouth. Yeah. It's garbage book at a garbage idea. Listen Listen the the phone. phone so any any circumstance in which you're processing inputs from their minds. You're not in solitude. And on the flip side if you are loan with your thoughts. Even if you're in a crowded coffeeshop or on the subway car that could be state of solitude. And so my short summary of my argument on that is that solitude is really really important. And so I think the image a lot of people have the solitude, maybe even the mid I have a salted is you imagine somebody in a cabin in the mountains somewhere reading a book that doesn't qualify here. Yeah. Ironically, that's not solitude. Whereas just sitting with nothing in your ears in the most crowded subway car would be I was thinking about this after I read it, and I was realizing that I probably don't spend ten minutes a day in solitude. Maybe I do because I meditate so I guess during that period of time I do. But with the exception of that. I don't think I spend ten minutes a day in solitude probably even cumulatively between the things I'm doing between. You know listening. To to music and podcasts. I mean, I am constantly getting input from other minds. Am I think a part of me thinks that's a good thing? Right to always be surfing and informational wave to always be giving. My my mind things to process to always be grabbing more information out of the environment around me. Why why do you think it isn't? What's your underestimating is just how much raw cycles of solitude is required to actually do that processing? And so if you're only ever exposing yourself to interesting information, if you're only ever exposing yourself to the stimuli, but not taking the time to actually think about it the process it the look at it from different angles. The try to run it against other paradigms or structures. You have in your current mental schema if you don't do that work of just being alone with your own thoughts. You're probably extracting just a a small fraction of the potential value. And it's also worth emphasizing how radical what you just said actually is. This is really say the last ten years is probably the the first time in human. History that it's even possible on a consistent basis to actually banish solitude essentially completely from the everyday experience. I mean, this require technological miracles. We had the amazing point. Actually, it really is. I mean, we had the cover the entire country with high speed high capacity wireless internet, we had to develop who knows how many different breakthroughs to get modern smartphones to work. I mean, it was really a technological miracle that even made it possible for us to try this experiment of can we go a standard day with no moments of solitude, you know, ten years ago twenty years ago would be near impossible to avoid solitude on a regular basis through a typical day, and this gets to something that in your other book, deep work is influenced me a lot and that we've talked about before. But the way that our brain gets trained into and out of different kinds of expectations..
"cal newport" Discussed on Optimal Living Daily
"This is optimal living daily episode 600 in '66 approach technology like the amish like hell newport of cal newport dark i'm just a mellick the guy the reads blog post to you every day including weekends with permission from the authors it's the weekend's only give you a little break from promotional content so as trump right in as we optimized her life approach technology like the amish by cal newport of cal newport dot com kevin kelley and the amish eight years after dropping out of callers to wander asia kevin kelly returned home to america botin inexpensive bike and made a meandering five thousand mile journey across the country as he recalls in his original an insightful 2010 book what technology wants the highlight of the bike tour was quote gliding through the tidy farmland of the amish in eastern pennsylvania unquote kelly ended up returning to the amish on multiple occasions during the years that followed his first encounter allowing him to develop a nuanced understanding of how these communities approach technology as he reveals in chapter eleven of his book the combination dea that the amish reject all modern technology is a meth the reality is not only more interesting but it also has important implications for our current culture as kelly puts it quote in any discussion about the merits of avoiding the addictive grasp of technology the amish stand out as offering honorable alternative unquote given such a strong endorsement it seems worthwhile to briefly summarise what kelly uncovered during these visits to rural pennsylvania.