20 Episode results for "CEO and Co"

Jack O'Holleran: SKALE Labs  An Ethereum Scaling Solution Using App Specific Blockchains


1:09:20 hr | Last month

Jack O'Holleran: SKALE Labs An Ethereum Scaling Solution Using App Specific Blockchains

"Joe And you're listening to epicenter the podcast interview, crypto founders, builders, and thought leaders. On this show we dive deep learn how things work at a technical level and we fly high to understand visionary concepts and long term trends. If you like epicenter the best way to support us is to leave a review on apple podcasts. If you're a MAC device, the easiest way to do that is to go to epicenter dot rocks slash apple. Today. Our guest is Jack o'halloran. He's a CEO and Co founder of scale labs. They're building the scale network, which is scaling network for a theory, and we're going to scale a lot of times in this episode. So scale network allows developers to build applications, specific blockchain's, and these are in travel and compatible with the main chain and the entire the ecosystem. We've had several scaling solutions on the podcasts in recent months but the focus of scale network is slightly different. Their aim is the scale smart contracts, not necessarily transaction throughput on the theorem maintain. So think of it as a highly performance if theorem. Side, chain were developers can deploy their own apps specific blockchain's, and within the scale network there will benefit from things like thousands of transactions per second with zero gas fees and add on's like file storage, and in the future, it's possible that scale will also support other add ons for things like machine learning and so on. And with that, here's our conversation with Jack o'halloran. We're here with Jack o'halloran. He's CEO and Co founder of Scale Labs Jack. Thanks for joining us today. Pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me. So before we get into scale and how it works and when it's used for less, I get a little bit of your background. So how'd you becoming? How did you become interested in? CRYPTO. been working in Silicon Valley Tech startups for about fifteen years. So my company was chemical good technology. It was the mobile mobile device management. Mobile Application enablement and essentially occur mobile cryptography mobile security company. So almost every fortune five hundred or fortune one, thousand company used it. And learned about security through. That process and Then you had been working in in Tex- thereafter worked and machine learning and analytics actually launched a digital currency platform in two thousand and eight were you could bid on resources internally with. This fake currency and it used Game Theory and and supply demand curves to really help balance resource allocation. So NASA for example, could use it for wind tunnel or supercomputer allocation or getting foreign nationals on base or For legal resources for big. Global one thousand companies that have have shortages there but got interested in currencies and incentive alignment through that process. And then ended up. After that building a company that was almost everybody WHO's received a pharmaceutical prescription in the US China Europe. Has In some way been touched by the analytic system built callback Tana with with another amazing people and. Does it pulls in data from hundreds of hundreds of sources. It helps get healthcare information to to physicians to help get prescriptions out there. So had a lot of experience building tack and two thousand eleven had been living in Palo Alto just before then I was living in the city and I think the bitcoin white paper was popping around everywhere if you knew people who were tech savvy and you into into new cutting edge staffs and it wasn't until two thousand, thirteen that I started really getting more engaged in a lot of people it was it was purely with bitcoin. And then when I went. Pretty deep there. But always from the sidelines I had a fulltime fulltime job at additional tech company but then it was two, thousand, sixteen, two, thousand, seventeen really got into therion and then I decided to the team I was starting another company and I was looking again at doing something and machine learning and house software as a service and. And you know then just realize I'm spending goes working out of the faster office working on a sas up and all spend ninety percent of my time reading and learning about crypto. I say, what am I doing building something and I can get in later to all of the reasons why I think it's a better idea. But that was really my onset my start I'm really interested about this like internal currencies stuff like how did that go like Whoa? What were people lower some exempt, what what people are actually using this or like who are some of the people using it I wanted like Or. is their experience of like using market Traditionally. There's a whole idea of like you know you have the market and then you have the verb, but it's like you know you're trying to add like market dynamics into the firm. So I let go. Exact you know what it would it started off really well, like a lot of startups to Nassau's was to be the first to use it and they had issues around back. Then supercomputer power was not like I couldn't connect into the cloud it was they had huge supercomputer resources on base with people who fought for them. They had a wind tunnel people would fight for they had just if you wanted to get somebody in my co-founder Austrailia, we couldn't even get him on the base half the time and we were basically are incubated they're. Working out of out of an office and They had had a really in the ames office a very cutting edge group that got editor places like we were talking to intuit and Thompson. Reuters had legal issues and legal resourcing issues and they also got it. Sales. Teams understood it about like using it to better markup sales territory alignment but people thought we were crazy two thousand. You're bringing a digital currency in here and. You expect people to pay for things effectively, what if they just spent all the money and I'm not going to give them more money to get more resources? Yeah. Yeah. Like or you can set it up. You know. So every month they burned there have to wait the next month it'll get smarter but you know it was start off really well then in two thousand eight. The you know the financial crisis hit and we went from having pipeline ten customers ready to buy this to people saying. You guys are nuts you better. Do something ready to buy mmediately and so we pivoted into. We there was a lot of machine learning analytics going in to help guide the economic engine, and that's how we ended up building autonomy, which is. The pharmaceutical technology product used by almost every single pharmaceutical company in the world. Because I feel like I've read about this the the internal currently stuff before and I never realized I. Think Maybe I think maybe. Might have been the one who is telling me about it because he's really interested in this whole idea of. Using markets for internal coordination. I think. So I think he may have sent me like some article from a couple years ago about about this. So let's go to. Drove wrapped around, you can google i. think in Google Scholar, you could find a patent application. And for incentive line was a company called incentive alignment people kept thinking we were invisible line so. That didn't work well but. But I hit someone it's a it's a phenomenal idea that somebody will execute on and the thing is people when you when money's at play and you have to signal appropriately, you can't you know what happens is ever and says, they need twice as much as they need. They need it twice as fast than than they think they'll get what they want, and if you have a currency at play and it's things out far more effectively. So, let's get to. Scale the scale is sort of a unique approach to scaling Theorem we compare it to like. We've had a lot of scaling solutions on the podcast and the last couple of weeks or months it seems Li- are working layer to. Working on things like roll ups, etc.. And scale network has a vastly different approach to getting a theory. And so I wonder before we get into how it works you describe the scaling problem as you see like, how do you explain to someone like they're five? What is the issue with you know scaling? Theory him. Yes. So I think of this as an APP specific blockchain problem, and if every application can have their own blockchain, their success is not enhanced encumbered by someone else's success or failure. You can do a more of that and even if you can use that blockchain to do things like storage or incorporate other functionalities that are configured to you you just we get better scale from societal Indus- industry perspective and imagine if like it costs you more to use your g mail because so many people use meeting a certain day right? Or your g mail was slower and having APPs specific back ends I. Think is the way the future where we get to real scaling. So that's what scale tries to do and yeah. Hey it has nice throughput and other things, but it's not a TV s battle. It's really about almost a division of compute resources letting people pave it pay for what they want and configuring use it as I want. The quote always GonNa Stuck with me when when block on the. The way that he described it. Was that scaling is essentially in Blockchain's scaling comes down to becoming to being a networking problem. If you break things down essentially, you're trying to get transactions to other notes as fast as possible in order for those to validate them at some point they're like bottlenecks with that and. Describing, scaling problem as an application problem. You know it's sort of like a layer up. Layer of abstraction on top but it's a way that at least those those of us who are sort of unique assignment using applications. It's more tangible way I think to like looking at the problem. And you know one other I guess example pull up here. So the IT goes back to this networking a resourcing issue getting getting data to nodes. Let's say we had one hundred nodes in the network and ten ten applications that want to use this. And there's no way all ten of them can use them at peak times in any meaningful manner that is cost effective said, hey, let's give each each application ten notes to work with. And then we've fifty sixty issue but we've we've created another issue in that the collusion element is far easier right? If you can get ten notes to collude and and then we lose a lot of the power of our blockchain right and so the way we look to solve that or the skill network looks to solve that is it takes his big broad group of nodes and it's able to randomly. Assign them to the applications and rotate them. Okay. So that way the network can problems still only a subset if there were one hundred nodes and each one at ten years need to network ten does need to come to agreement her two thirds of ten nodes and we've also cut down the weight and blood and someone's using the blockchain a lot and filling it up will they're gonNA just only pay for? Within, ten nodes they use and have to keep buying more resources to go behind those ten nodes and my ten nodes I I leave us a little bit. So I'm just getting small fraction and I'm just going to pay a little bit and I'm not impacted by the other application role but I'm at risk if my nodes are V if they can understand, they're all working together if there's not an incentive component to stop them from colluding and if there's not a good way to randomly and securely assign the resources or the notes. How does this fit into a? Context for our listeners sent. Houses fit into, say the Cosmos Vision. Where effectively cosmos. Breaks things down into. Apple's application specific blockchain's and allows for every network to have their own valid or set. And you know scale at the application layer what does scale network to provide? In addition to this compartmentalization of applications. So I I I think the cosmos teams has a lot of things right in the desiigner think having APPs app specific blockchain's is. The right approach I think we're seeing other networks in designs to try to mimic that and and so so the way we think about it though I won't compared to Cosmos will just say specific to a fury up. So if you're on a theory him. If we go back to this like in these numbers are not accurate. I'm just using them as representation hundred nodes, ten applications, ten notes up if that were the case. There's an attack vector if you think about like who coordinates the notes to go to which which application, and if there's a person, a human in the loop, who does that will I can just fine I know this Sonny's tap has a billion dollars on it. I'm going to try to all my notes on Sundays, but I'm just GonNa take that money and liquidated. So that's an attack. Factor scale does is the theory may net as where I'd say a huge chunk of this gal network lives is skill lives across the theorem and skill note. So the theory main net, what it does, it speaks to every node that understands which are available, which knows are open at understands who wants to be placed where, and then it uses smart contracts to do that route that allocation. And it. So that's how we assign notes to operate two different depths. It's the main net and so in a way to it's a business energy because on one hand. Take money away from the main net because you're not paying for transaction fees only when you come in and out but skill does every time you set the notes, rotate the main that is paid, and so there's it's almost like a modern rev share where okay we need to do a notation, pay the name that and someone wants to stay on scale. Guess what you have to pay May netflix skills in era twenty token and guess for that stake lives at stake lives on the main. So the main net is used for, I'd say the core network administration and network orchestration functions theory may net, and then the network itself from the not living in the scale network run by people running scale alligator's that's where the actual software that runs. A APP specific Blockchain Lips. Could you? Explain that a bit like what exactly is. The scaled note and what is the relationship with that too the theory of network. So are they sort of doing their staking on the theorem network and then there they're running a new chain? What sort of. Over arching architecture off what the scale network looks like. Yes. So I think a really good place to start is looking at each note. So the node has every node is is all docker is it's all containerized. So what we're looking at is there's component that's held the note core that all it does is speak to the main net and support cornet with functions, and it does administration auditing of other nodes and orchestration of notes, and that that that core of each node speaks back to the main, and then outside of that, there are one, hundred, twenty, eight sub containers, and each one of those could be living on a different blockchain. And so as if you're running a scale note, you could have one, hundred, twenty, eight dabs using you're using your note, but these containers can be just like containers and modern computing. Can Be the dividing lines can be broken down and you can have bigger compute resources. So let's say Sonny's DAB comes to the network. Through put and needs a lot of file storage and needs a lot of smart contract execution. He might get a medium note and said of getting one, hundred, twenty, eight, one, hundred, and twenty, eight of sixteen. He's going to get one thirty second or he says, Hey, I need the whole thing and he just buys all the compute. And around the note core and instead of getting one one, hundred, twenty, eight buying more of the network, and then he gets a with other than sixteen nodes. I'll do that the come together sunny pays for them on an annual basis. And that's that's how the model works. So then it's gas list. So the developers is managing the fee and and then so we have this note architecture this each node then speaks to each other and speaks back to the man net I want to set up a validate or node stink, and my think goes theory may net and. It knows that I'm running this node than I have the ability to run this note, but the main, that's where the state fronts. Then the network runs the nodes, look at each other and watch each other to the orchestration mechanism or the administration and auditing mechanism, and then they speak back to the main net net and the main that does calculations as. Jack snowed gets paid. This study's now gets paid this and we pay peop- The net the main net pays the bounty and also pulls fees for the this the chains in an inflation. So the main that really is the. Almost like the financial and operations arm of the network, but there's no humans behind it. It's smart contracts. Am I understanding this correctly, the scale nodes are. Are If. You're trying to create a network where existing theory notes also carry the scale infrastructure in addition to. Their existing theorem note or or or are they separate entities like separate? Yeah that's that's a really great clarifying questions to scale nodes in our separate they run scale, they rent scale on them but each what they run is a really fast theorem. And so you're getting a vm on each of the nodes and you're getting all the analogy of a theory of so that there is complete interoperability we talked about losing these like building blocks of compose ability, and so the goal is you don't lose any of that when you're in each gill skill node, but these nodes can't function without the main net they can't. They don't know where to work. They don't know how to work they can't get paid to work. But when they when you as adapt I, come access my blockchain. Mike I run just on the scale network. Now I pay the net to give me access to the skill network because I'm paying the skill manager smart contracts system on theorems. What we've done is we thought to ourselves when we when we were doing a stand had our CTO had five different dapper ideas he was kind of working to do this. And I was working on a few different ideas also because I mean, it just was so clear to me all of the business, all the areas you could get a business up and running and stand then said I sin, why do why do you think you can do five different gaps? He's like Oh. What could the architecture design I'm going to do this and both of us come from like enterprise software middleware and? He comes has a whole background of networking and cryptography and really infrastructure type products and we're like, well, let's just this is perfect to be able to license to other people through this model that works the theory may not instead of us. Trying to build five different doubt. Let's help other developers with the the infrastructure we've built and designed for ourselves. So let me try to rephrase how I how I see so. The existing network has. X number of notes. Scale nodes are effectively theorem nodes that have additional software this. This layer on top of the theorem node that allows them to execute computations for smart contracts. And as adapt. You relegate the compute power for your up to a subset of scale nodes. And Leverage scale the scale networks ability to compute this and have a high high availability high throughput. And then so the proofs get sent back down to the therapy network is that a good way to look at it? Yet. unilat- Lemme tweak a little more I think it'll make it more clear. There's there's two very separate networks. One network is the theory of network comprised of a theme knows there's an entirely separate network called the skill network comprised of scale notes okay. Now, the skill network. Can only function with the theory of network because all of the where notes work and who they work for and payment and security is baked back into the other network the theory member. Now, in the skill network as the top developer I can buy or rent sub components of the skill network. The get randomly assigned to me in rotated in switched and what I get I have the different end point. Just like you know you've got you've got that or von or upstate or whatever I pick my scale no. My scale chain coupling scale chains has its own end pointing Tucson RPC, PORT IP address. That's my blockchain. And it runs really a theory of software that's been tweaked and tooked up in different ways so that it's fast and has a different consensus in it and but that scale chain than mind for my dad but I connect it to a theory because when my users come and then it just operates as a side chain but it's not a side shame because side chains have. I think a of security issues because of the way that they're structured and and signed and. There's not this big pool of random selection and rotation. It's really like a Shard. Aside Chard. Just kidding. No, but I mean I think I was gonNA. Ask what you're describing actually does sound very similar to like the East two point charting right where like essentially you starting seems to be almost exactly what you described but then like using this like east to beacon chain as what you guys are using the current events chain for what would be some of the main. Differences between the charting work that's being done by like the two point Oh development team I, what you guys have built here. Yeah the main difference is that it's it's ap specific. So my application gets its own blockchain, and then as faster I mean, you can do two thousand transactions per second you can do file storage within the chain you could incorporate machine learning models to like. Look at Oracle inputs to determine whether or not smart contracts get approved. There's a lot of things you can do in it. You can buy you know just a little bit. You can buy a lot and on the to Chard, you're sharing a charred right with a lot of other applications. So we also designed this to interact with the into shards and so excited for that happens and we're GONNA have a lot of work on I think to bring the scale contracts is smart contracts from scale over to eat to and everything transitions but. You know what? A Lotta people are quick to say, Oh, this is the side chain side chains aren't secure, but we think of it more maybe side chartres is a good way to describe it. It's it's a starting mechanism and and if you look at the validate who run scale who've signed up that mean ninety, five percent of them will probably overlap with people who run E to right it's and like one of our other bats back in two thousand seventeen we started working on this was we thought the validation market community was going to flourish and grow, and there'd be a lot a lot of incredibly successful business operations were even though it's an open network with an anonymity. It's reputation and business are component of getting delegation right and I think that's really come together and it's good for you to and I think could support any other purpose network like scale and other other networks so. So, what about the comparing it to polkadot then in that case where you know like, yeah, like you said e to it's. You know you have many things running on the same shark but in Polkadot, they also have sort of this more application specific. Notion, of shouting, would it be sort of similar to that but then like? Using a theory. Really. Dana, what would be some of the differences there? And you and you know what? I won't get into all the nuances but I think there's definitely pricing differences and the smallest. In the world with one person, a garage can afford to run a small scale chain. So could a huge enterprise could buy a large scale chain and so I think there's a lot of more flexibility and fungibility and sizing options, and then they'll also be a privacy options. You can make all transactions private in the scale chain, but the big difference is like scale. The revenue model and the security models built also theory may not. It's like two lines of code connect to scale, and when you pay the scale network, you're GonNa be at least twenty to thirty percents. Payments in aggregate are going to go back to the theory main that because you need to pay for your note assignment, you know there's rotation that happens in the network. People that there's there's just so many functions. It's this weird kind of decentralized share like salesforce DOT COM use force dot com as an APP you pay fifteen percent of your revenue back to salesforce. 'CAUSE YOU'RE USING FORCE DOT COM and the scale network itself has this rupture built in with a theory because a theory m does the work of securing the stake of issuing the payments of managing orchestration of the scale network. It is the scale number can't function without the theory no work. Done extents. I mean, it seems that you need some chain to exist that that like does the coordination of. Validates and whatnot like. Shuffling excetera. Why does that have to be the theorem chain? When teams theorem chain is actually relatively expensive place to do this where companion to poke an offer polka dot says, okay. Let's just make or even you know they're like Oh. Let's just make this like dummy chain called the beacon chain or focus case it's the relay chain where it's like you know why not us an application specific blockchain to do all the shuffling in coordination as well. Yet. You know and I'll it is expensive. So if you set up a scale chain, you're GONNA pay like maybe in today's gas fees like four hundred dollars to set your chain up because you have to pay those gaffes fees. So user staking might have to pay ten dollars worth the gas and these numbers are always subject to change because there's optimization happening on the scale side and gas fees we know change so. So why why we the reason? Why is the most critical security? Of Not sinement and staking of the network and are it's like, Hey, it costs a lot of money. But if theorems the best place to go, we think. For those services for the scale network, the other pieces, the networks designed to support a theory developers. Also like part being part of this ecosystem. So I think you get confidence from the developer that Oh you're using this chain and I am all about theory, my build on a theory, and so I, think we probably have way less conversion and less of a pipeline and less taps excited to use it. If it were somewhere else because we target the theory of ecosystem, we support the theorem ecosystem from a developer perspective. One last piece is. It was so much easier. Well, scale was not easy to build. Okay it was really difficult but we there are a lot of things we just didn't have to worry about interoperable with the theory and there's so many things that just out of this out of the box, we were able to use to get the network up and running and people that use scale can use other pieces to out of the box because it's interoperable. So that that even helped us from our own developer perspective of being able to leverage everything in ecosystem. So, you mentioned scale manager briefly could you describe in detail? What is the purpose of the scale manager and how interacts with all the notes and developers? So. The skill manager is massive set of smart contracts I think when we deployed may net it was. I think it was like sixteen thousand years. G of gas fees to play it. And it was pretty heavy. So it's a really really large set of smart contracts that do a lot of different things. One is the scale Tokens and Seven seven seven token that help that is the. Economic driver within the network for behavior and centers and rewards. The other piece here is you know so you stake. In the network that goes into skill manager if you're developing, you want to scale chain in within skill managers where we're going to where the network looks resourcing and and it runs a kind of signature ran dow thing to do enterpise all the nodes together work together with the scale manager, the scale nodes, the scale Nazar to come up with red numbers and and then there's also component that does. That, gives bounty. So it takes in the fees for if I pay for scale chain, I paid to the scale manager paying scale tokens that goes in, and I by twelve month contract one twelfth of that, every month goes into this bounty pool and then this bounty pool. Then also has an inflationary piece. So every month certain amount of skills inflated and the inflation for that month in all the fees combined and node watches, every other node and. Produces a score for other knows and there's all this kind of washing out and and cleansing and things that happen to ensure that we're getting the right scores and finds a middle ground and in its very binary. It's like, did you meet the objectives or not in the up and it's like basically time latency and and performance functionality elements in every? No that that then gets a cut in that stake of that bounty pool every month and every month. Those awards are sent out to the network through the skill manager and then it goes to the to each valid eater. The validation then on Shane has a mechanism to say, here's my return I'm taking zero r one or ten percent or whatever, and it goes to their wallet and the other piece of the return goes to the delegators wallet and all these all of these wallets and all of the the scale token right is. Theory main net. So it's also included in the broader skill manager, and so that's why it's called. Skill manager just manages the network. And the the codes all live on the main if anybody wants to go like check out the get hub, check out the contract addresses. What would be the process of? Let's say I want to start running a scaled node. So are there how do I find out sort of? What our minimum system resources needed and Gaelic walking through what are the steps I would do to from today I wake up, decide to run a scale to be validating on a couple of scale chains. Yes, so so you just you can go to scale chat to the discord. There's a community there and they could guide you. You can also go to the developer documentation. There's a like a pretty robust documentation. On scale DOT network scale with a K., and you could find information there, and then all the get hub codes opens is open and public The first version, the very first launch. Is is limited just to knows that ran in the test net and they'd and there's a there's a compliance component to which we don't control that there's there's a proof of stake launch it's happening in meaning like they'll be an auction and people can buy a token and then they have to stake then the tokens locked for ninety days, there's no trading, and in we had there has to be fixed number of alligators because you have to meet a minimum threshold and these people are buying and taking if they by on the auction, they stick to know that doesn't have enough. In it. Then frankly, they don't get in return for ninety days and that's not the experience we want. So after that ninety day, anybody can show up. Do these t ally and get your note up and running. have to have enough delegation to meet the minimum minimum mistake requirement per node. And then you join the network. But. What about like from system resources requirements like how do I know is your minimum that if I wonder on a scale note, I have to have at least this much compute this much storage like how does that work? Yeah exactly. So It that is all listed to in the documentation and it's you know it's like you can run. If you're running this in the cloud, it's like a couple of hundred bucks a month to run run a scale node. So it's not a small machine. The storage pieces of really interesting question we. Still, a place where. It's open source community involvement here but pretty soon, the community has to all. Things are going to change. It goes through a very different process and one of the top let I guess the most difficult recent decisions was, what should the amount of storage? Because you're the more storage is there as in if you're running bear battle, it's like hardly difference in cost but if you're running in the cloud to go till like. Ten terabytes instead of four is dramatically different, and if you're a running ten scale nodes, that's huge operational intact. To. Change for paying a cloud provider, we're hoping that the economic drive people from running nodes once they see that this is something repeatable and sustainable that they'll get off of cloud and move into more bare metal setups and colocation setups but the returns just a lot better for that perspective. So, yeah that was a tough decision because your block storage is is impacted the file storage component you could run. Hold the centralized application using cloud storage. These things are kind of in contrast to validate a return and obviously from the gaps, I wanNA give them as much as possible but the validation have to worry about our Y. so it's very clearly you could just say Oh guess what we're gonNA pass a fee we're gonNA pass it over to dabs fees go. Up but there's we haven't gotten to the point where the nets just getting up and running right so we need to make sure we create like a positive network affect. So I think over time the community will devote and say, let's increase fees and increased storage and then it's a win win but we want to I think that will happen later. So those backs. I think you could You can just go to the discord and to developer documentation to find that pretty easily. Internal Storage. Is it possible for or is foreseeable scale to perhaps also leverage some of the storage networks decentralized networks, which exists in there are many sort of like as an end point where the nodes themselves could leverage external decentralized solutions in addition to or. Instead of bare metal storage or having their own kind of like local storage. Yeah. Actually that another interesting topic. So part of what we want to do so let's say if you get to the point where you're doing Millions of transactions per day you're you're going to have a lot of bloat eventually in your scale chain and over at a certain point, you may fill that up and at it could be a year could be six months. It could be five years depending on how much use. But if you're using huge, you have huge throughput that needs to be stored. Then, what happens is the network the system set to Prune? So just start pruning old data at some people want to keep that forever. So we actually have a get hub grant live. With our we've and we're doing this in conjunction with our. We've just have someone go and build this connection between scale. Are we even then? Automatically passes your data to the are we've network and you can start forever there and it's and it's decentralized trust less permanent. So that's one piece and we were going to build an are we going to build together and say, Hey, let's let the community build this. Let's let's get make sure this is really open source and obviously you could connect to Amazon server at store your data as well but. That doesn't meet the requirements for a lot of decentralized applications. Yeah. That's really cool. You know we we had our we've gone a little back and. They're building the sperm Perma web and there's other projects out there like Cya, for example now there they've got a slightly different vision. For Them It's more decentralized cloud storage like a decentralized dropbox and if feels to me like I'm one obvious use case for all, these systems is just offloading kind of like some some theory and bloat. Any blockchain basically like let's just reduce the size of those Washington's. Put first five years of the first ten years offload the Monto these. Decentralize a cloud storage solutions and to leverage them also for like things like archival storage for. Specific applications, things, Kinda. Interesting. It just another like kind of like. Wake up called all of us the we get so deep into the current president jade that like it's nice. Sometimes you do you know what we're really early here and like why do we do things we do sometimes it's like relive like it's religion or a best practice of the moment, and then you kind of pick your head Makino why if it goes to are we even it's there forever then who cares if we could print from the sketching or go somewhere else right it's. What's at? It's I. Think we're going to have different layers. We're GONNA HAVE DIF-. You know there'll be place where action happens execution happens. There's a place where maybe storage might happen. There's a place where. They'll be different zones and areas as opposed to just layers I think and it'll look more like an enterprise software map ecosystem compared to like this kind of very basic protocol stacking, and it's just we're just young in the industry right this stuff just just getting started. Can you walk us through than the other side of? I wanted to go ahead and create a gap on the scale network. What would be the process of me doing that. How do I sort of know what sort of resources my gap needs I? Do I know whether I need a one sixteenth or one quarter of a note? How do I know any of or how do I even tell how many validate those I want? Yes. So so the first version of the main, just for you know just simply simplicity is better security and an execution perspective. So you have three options right now you can have a small medium or large chin, very, very end. And the costs are dramatically different for those and and then in terms of number of nodes, there's just a fixed set of number of notes. So in the future you could get, you might want to get sixty four nodes, all running the smallest component or you're going to get right now it's just there's only sixteen node groups and you can run one of the three sizes. So you do is pretty clear like you have to like. Do I care about throughput and like transactions per second to care about ability to store things do decentralized storage would do I care about and so you think about you care about then you'd say. The small chain can do twenty transactions per second Max. and has less storage. The medium chain is something like a hundred transactions per second and two thousand transactions per second roughly solarge Shin, and there's just dramatically more storage to, and so you kind of see where you've said, and then it's called elastic side chains because of one how things are configured and pulled together. But also because they're elastic could be on a small chain. So you know I'm going to upgrade, and then you just have to light up A. Medium chain and then you move everything over and there's a transition process. It's not as seamless as in the web to world, but it's doable and you can just move up the ladder as your as your throughput. It's not as elastic as EC two, but it's more elastic than what we have today. So then what you do is you just build something for Therion and two lines of code you deploy to your skill and point just as you're pointing to. A different. Now, you'd have beyond a test net and then put them to main net or go to another that you just go to a scale chain and that's your scale chain. Then you're connected but entertain messaging a little more involved and that's where. There's more. Be Less threshold signatures are being used to sign off on amounts to be transferred and going to the proxy contract, and then going to the main and happens is. As you come over, you end up creating this element where you freeze assets on the main net, and then clones or a rap version is created on the scale Chan and those are used, and then when the end user wants to allow the web three connection points back to the scale chain and it says, Hey, take money out Iran's consensus be allows us to then message on a lightweight manner back to the main net, and then the those assets that are cloned burn essentially, and then the unlock the net and they go back to the user. Can I transfer any aspect? Like can I do any? Yossi Twenty or seventy one or right now, there's just support for C Twenty, seven, twenty, one die, and then there will be when the network goes to face to launch and. That's what we've built. So your your your standard stuff you're using on on a theory will work, and eventually you know the goal is to make that even more robust to be able to take in a cloned a wrapped bitcoin and run it inside of. A theory modifications. And so in part of this too I I've done a lot of software startups when you're in the space wherein you think you're going to do all this stuff someday, and what happens is you end up getting pushed more and more to your core strength. And ecosystem develops and you start using partnerships to do other things. So maybe even someday, we have entertained messaging, but there may be some entertain messaging agent or tool that is the best or instead of US creating this B. Or the Special Signature Bridge to get bitcoin in s developers use something else and and we just keep focusing our. Hair keeps focusing on the peace that's really nuanced specific to what our core strengths are. So it'll be you know we'll see we'll roadmap goes over time. So, what we do these resource constraints like, okay. The small medium large. How does that like? What is the literal in sensation of that? Is that like? So these are all running vm chains right and so would it be act like? It changes the gas limit per blocks as out where the actual wall. which actually changing legs so you know a small chain gives me two million gaspar lock while me give me five million gaspar bunker our. Good questions. So it's literally the amount of compute resourcing have, and if you're using more than you have just frankly gets gated it just gets. Just gets throttled down. So so what happens is you these chains you could think of them as little building blocks and there's one hundred and twenty eight of these and in each node, and if I run a small chain, the network devotes these sixteen containers to me across sixteen nodes that are the small, the smallest container sizing and so I get. That amount of resourcing and then if I'm pushing more through than what I've what I've. Licensed from the network just you know it's his physics I'm trying to push more in and I don't have enough space for it. How does a developer get a good sense of? The. So if I built my own game I, I lost my own ABM on a scale chain I shall gas limit is then how do I get a good sense of like? What is the relationship between gas versa gas LTD versus like computer resources available to me. So what you do is there's actually a fake gas that you sign within your your application that users used that only serves the purpose of preventing Dawson. Okay you make sure no one spanning the network and if I'm spending the network, my my you know me as an end user where I'm connecting I just run out. and. Then you get a certain amount back the next day. So that's it's not a cost thing resourcing thing you can use and you just have a faucet you keep getting just odd it's automated gives people gas to us. Okay. That's so that's how gas is used. The cost element is there's no it's just gas is just there's no fee you can use it as much as you want as your users can and. You're just paying for N.. If you're saying, wow, we're like getting really jammed up and things are slow because we're have more more pushing through than we have reserved than you move to a bigger a bigger set, and so then you would change to medium chain and the large chain and and then I think you know then you could even say, Oh, we want more for storage you could light up a small chain and. Used for storage and then use something else just for smart contract execution or maybe use the large chain for storage because he a lot of things you're storing because you're running an entire decentralized application to end and you just have transactions going on a small chain or something as you use, you can use these different chains and set them up to your needs and requirements. Yes so so the gas again I think circling back to your original question. You could think of the gating force here is the amount of containers you have. The gas is a construct that you issue as a developer just to prevent Dawson. So, one of the oddities of the vm is a treat storage and compute as like. fungible resources with each other where like they're both? In this unit called gas and kind of like pegs their prices against each other but teams that might not always be the best approach because example, in a scale chain maybe maybe I want to give people a lot of compute capability but not a lot of storage capability is there a way to sort of create to? Like separate out storage gas from compute gas. Yet you know what? So right now it's fixed. It's one of the things we WANNA make configuration in the future. So right now you I think of them out. There's only there's a certain amount that frankly can be of storage just within your containers and right now I think twenty percent goes to transaction storage and storing transactions and something like sixty percent is going towards file storage and the remainder is going towards storage requirements just around the network. And so what we want to do is something I say I have no files I'm storing I have nothing I don't need file storage I want that to be zero and I want to open up the arrest I wanNA have three times the amount of I guess transaction storage capacity. and. So right now it's fixed. It's hard coded. Eventually you could see this I don't know there's probably a lot of people here who are familiar with enterprise and SASS and SASS was all about like understanding use cases in making things off the shelf people. There's enough people say, Hey, I want this they can click a few buttons and get things like baked into the system configuration options ready for them and it's not you don't want people in their customizing scale chain. There's one set of software that runs across the network. And right now we're we're very junior varsity in one zero one in the setup there's three options, but it's all done. If for good reasons around security and. And over time hopefully, that will evolve. So each guilty and is just a plain old. VM. Wants to prevent someone else from like notice pair of starting my skill chain. So I I as a developer I paid for this like. Large scale chain and what's to prevent some other person deploying their own contract on there and like your dislike Siphon. Making us the faster the fact that I already paid for all the computer and everything upfront, and then the for their use case. Yes. Oh. So my understanding is so they're they're nuance things built into it so that only the developer has access. So there's just A. I don't know hand the exact mechanism us, but that was that was built in. So if someone has access to all of your systems and yet they can go access your chain. Users can usually wouldn't be able to deploy their own smart contracts. No. So just the developer is able to. Deploy the smart contracts to their ecosystem. It has control of control over it. But what if I want to like as a user? What if I want to deploy a? Multi contract or Argenta smart wallet contract or something like that like more of a user side contract. How would I do that? If contract deployment is limited? So. So the way it's been designed now as the developers is essentially like. The owner of their domain as if you owned back end database and so I don't have the exact details on how they can open up configure ability. I'm sure you could open up anything. To make it. So the design SPEC is I back end here I pay for my group or my community pays for collectively and certain people have these controls. Other people have these and you could just open it up let anybody do anything to it and somebody might come and do exactly what you talked about or you keep components of it that are less publicly available and just. The businesses applications, the groups, communities projects that are using it then open up only what they need to, but it's just like you know we I think for. Specific blockchain's you need to have similar security requirements that you would for normal application like can somebody come Leech off of my Amazon? EC. Two incidents no right. So but if I want end users have interoperability and to come build things and connect or. Pull things for API than to. Build. Those connections. So it's a it's a good question, I think. Yeah I I you know maybe we'll write another. We've got a lot of content maybe we'll right about that and we'll write up the an overview of how how the networks been designed to give configured security to application filters. So these connections actually now, but people are building in. Some sometime, people start building these connections for the applications they need. If we come back to this kind of exit like Web to software analogy or web development platform analogy do you do for C. kind of stores where people would sell like access to these types of of connectors like? Shop, a FI APP store or something like that. Right? Like you want this extension will you gotta pay for it or if you're not looking to build yourself Yes Oh. So it's it's an open. It's great question. I think we're talking about cool future things that could happen. So if you think about it, what we have is just a network of watch chance that's that's run and driven orchestrated by the theory main foundationally secured by the a theory may net and these blockchain's A thousand nodes could run eight thousand small blockchain's. So there's GONNA BE A. Lot of these, there's GonNa be a lot of people that may be will license then and then package them with other things, and then sell them almost a red hat type manner or You know open source business model where you get things configured and you pull in the wallet you pull in these these components and you ensure that their security auditing and so we have one one person who's Working on building this now so he can take his prepackaged offering to game developers and web three developer or developers that wants to use blockchain, and in a way shop a Fi, the theorem experience for them they pay and Fiat he does conversion to make the automated way to license scale to connect to Portis or a torres or fort matters or Bisky and and there's things that then proof and check. These smart contract language to make sure that they're not losing money and I think things like that or may give more accessibility can take to normal developer the normal world developers who aren't here living in you know blockchain land and so I think cool stuff like that will happen hope and but we're just trying to stay at the infrastructure level to make sure that we can give people those options without exposing. Attack Vectors. Right. Interesting. Could. You talk a bit about like how there's some of the security properties of this work especially when it comes to things like fraud proves date availability how do I? Know let's say I. Happen to you know through this random search. Somehow happened to end up with set of sixteen valid for my chain that was corrupt. And what is my recourse now or what happened or what about the database abilities I agree you know I had a bunch of storage and outside Italy. refused. To serve the data. So one thing to notice there this is it's relying on Byzantine fault tolerant performance. So if two thirds of my note operators go bad that's a real issue, and that's why we take the randomness rotation. The seating of the network incentives have you validate or lose so they lose their whole steak if they maliciously colluded and steal money. So this is also falls into the what is layer to question right? Because I think a lot of people are you. Used to just be, you could connect Bitcoin to a theory and that of layer too because. This one is where this one blockchain there's another one. This is the primary one and I'm creating an application environment. And then there's obviously been a sector of researchers who are working on plasma and now roll ups and and and Z.. K., and other techniques to make sure that there's no consensus nothing can happen on the second layer. The first layer doesn't agree on. So you you make sure that your main place for security, and so then you have a central node operator that performs different functions you make sure state availability you make sure you have timeouts on the user side so they can't get liquidity for certain period of time. In case that central operator goes bad as scale doesn't work that way skills another network you're trusting another network imagine you connected to Cosmos and the cosmos validates from stole the money and before it went back to our, the theory may not if you were to set up a you're just trusting that set of alligators so once. So. Things that we can do one. You can limit the quantity of that someone could pull out every day. So you can basically make sure there's not a mask exit per per like to steal money. There's things like that you can do. There's other things that the system takes a snapshot every I think it's Right now it's every twelve hours. You could make a, do it every six, every six minutes every. Sixty minutes whatever it snapshots, your state and if you do have. Militias validates irs the network or ones that stall than the network self heals pulls them out and then it puts in new notes. And so. In the short term that so that's it's one of setup. Someone's quits running their node it gets removed get you. It injects another one at any given time you could stop it and you have your latest date. So those are things that you know you could just be in a point where you have two thirds of them and they refused to work, and then you're there's going to be like an intervention I think a human in the loop intervention but again, it's just about resetting that snapshot and rotation mechanism than re rotates new nodes into the chain. And the amazing thing about blockchain's is that there's no foolproof thing. If everyone's bad, it's really hard to get blockchain's to work I've heard some people say like, oh, even if everyone's about one good actor and it's like, well, blockchain's really are set up to have the right incentive structures to make sure that the majority is pushing through the right actions and so I think a lot of these spheres are a little bit overstated because of the the naturalization in the validate or market and kind of the reputation element even though they're not proof of the being in to run and then having the right types of incentive structures. Getting A two-thirds attack if reverend state I think it'd be really really bad place. And, probably wouldn't have quality data running on anyways if it were susceptible that sort of thing. Let's take a little bit of a step back and talk about the business here, and also there's this. There's we haven't addressed the foundation. So a node foundation or NORAD foundation that stands for something. You talk about describe what that is and what its role is in the sprouted vision. I think foundations for everybody are great things and annoying things because we all WanNa have like a decentralized network that runs that we get support but you do if you do have. Found, a grant program you want to run. If you do want to pay dirt certain groups to focus and and work on the platform, you do need to have a an entity that helps support they cut happen, and so the the node foundation and on Scholz are set up in Liechtenstein and they're really just there to support. Operations. So skill labs as a client is I guess offender supporting the foundation and we have a contract and we get paid and certain amount every year and it's really just comes down to cost. And it's just basic startup salaries and marketing spend and money to spend on hacker fons and its community money that was raised through staffs that then pass to the foundation, and then there'll be a public sale that money goes to the foundation and then other vendors will come on board and support the network and and really we're just trying to follow best practices we've seen through Cosmos and a theory I and other I. Think. Foundational structures that you need to have some element of humans managing money. That's compliant. With the securities laws and Laws that pertain to responsibility and liability for the network. But at the same time, you have to make sure that whatever the entity is doesn't have enough power to have any negative impact on the network itself. So, there's the foundation and there then the company. Is a US company I suppose. Well. So the company is just like Skill Labs Inc we were standardized. Hey, let's go build this and let's do an open source to centralize and we had a corporation and I guess staffs were used to get early supporters evolved and then at a certain point where like okay. Like we don't this not the right structure of a corporation of any control or power over the money and so. This entity in Liechtenstein was set up and the money was passed to the entity in Liechtenstein and the Sassanian that entity is responsible. The main thing is to launch the network and to manage the foundation grant. So they'll be grants that go to stop developers who build on scale to not some to liquidate, but for them to be able to fund their chain certain period of time, there's an incentivized test nets that happen to get paid out through that group, and they're like the get coin. Downey with our. We've things like that need to come from someone and it's not right for them to come from a corporation. And so that's why the foundation exists and can you talk a little bit about the different phases of the launch? Yes. So there's three phases than. It was one of these things I've noticed a lot of people are phases and for us to just end for this group that community was like it made more sense and one thing was we wanted to just get the network up and running on its feet before live staking happened and. and. So what happened is there on June thirtieth phase one launched and everything deployed on the main ned and and there's just A kind of idling network where there's no bounty rewards being given yet, but it's up and now what happens between now and face to which is on August thirty first. Valid eaters can join and get set up. And then once they're set up on September first, the first epoch starts, and that's when payment everything gets going. So the the people have. A runway and then staking all has to happen to before the first. So people that purchased in the activate auction and then have to do proof of Houston stake their asset have to stake by September first and. Same anybody who had a saft they're able, and so we just have the time that's not like okay. Let's do in two days or the networks live and have a mad dash to make sure nothing's broken. So that's why phase one exists, and then phase two is really about compliance and health of the network, and so for ninety days, there's no trading. Nothing's liquid and real staking happens and. Then able to come and and participate and start using the network, and then when phase three hits than it's like any of these networks with a token and having a liquid asset and but we get there and Kinda, you know crawl walk run style. So. You mentioned the grants program. Like in these early stages, what do you think that will look like in terms of? The types of things that you're looking for people to build and. I suppose the company then we'll be the one. Giving the grants or is it or is it the foundation? The installed. I guess our Liechtenstein structure. So it's you can the install is basically a business that supports the foundation and so there'll be a kind of process and You know there'll be a submission to say, Hey, look we want to give x amount of grants and maybe scale ob says, Hey, can we give away? And here's exactly what they'll be used for the time period. Let's make sure there's transparency or maybe someone else will say, Hey, we want to get involved here. Can we do a grant program for these people and then the basically says, okay, Great. You someone came to us from South America wants to get cancer developers. This mechanism will sign a contract with them and then they can do that, and so it's more about a we don't want to have a huge operational structure going on in the foundation. Now we're just think that communities too small and so the on stall be responsible for kind of. Finding groups that can then support growth of of the network. What are the types of things that you'd like to supported in in the early days like with the initial grants like what are the types of things that are most needed to be built by the by the community for like these? Ongoing phases to be successful. Yes. Oh, the are we've integrations a great example. There's a grant that's going for are we've connector maybe you build a connector to another centralized storage network people that want to get involved in entertained messaging. There's grants going there. There's a white hat effort going on through her one right now that people can look out and get involved in the there will be grants given in the same way. Amazon was really successful because it came out and said, Hey, we'll give you X. amount of credits for over a period of time to Amazon, and so they went to promising start ups and got up they gave all these startups in essentially fake money that they could use within Amazon to use credits and and then Google did the same thing so also. We're running where? There's a three to six month credit that happens and I say on the developer and I've got a promising team and I'm serious. Then they can apply to be in the scale innovator program and then they get a grant but that grant then locks into the network doesn't end up on an exchange right away and once they use it actually just goes back to validate delegators through the ecosystem. or The financial mechanics that manager fees so so that's another thing you might say, Hey, I'm working in Berlin I want to get a grant program going we've got let's get more developers using this or or that would be exciting and the other piece to just entertain messaging and sure sunny you know all the challenges of having money go in between network if anybody wants to take a look at that code I think that's something we're thinking of putting a grant up to sometime soon, just to get more eyeballs approach and approaches and efforts than I. could see that being a lot of supported mechanisms and to to help different assets transfer between scale chains, order places. So working people learn more and get involved and perhaps even reach out to get involved with some of these grandparents. Yeah. So so please come to the discord and you can get looped in. So scale dot chat and the scale, and you can find these links all the skill web skill website scale dot network, and you could also reached out on twitter as through the very different people or the Seattle official twitter handle. And the police can let we're we're really. Really part of this theorem fabric in one of the hard things about the quarantine knows we used to be at a different theme event or hacker found every month around the world and. I think a lot of organic. Integration and work happened that way, and now we're in a different different challenge where no one's traveling and seeing each other. So we have to I think be more thoughtful about getting things like this going. Yeah, obsolete. Hopefully, at some point, we'll be able to go back to your conference. But for now, we'll stick to discord chats. Jack. Thanks for joining us. Today. I also want to stay. So you asked me about my kind of on boarding into crypto. So I, thought I knew a lot about crypto and blockchain and I realized I knew pretty much nothing when I first started working twenty seventeen fulltime and one of the main outlets for learning. I, was listening to epicenter. So I listen to like I probably listening to a hundred episodes at least It's a pleasure to be here today and I've always been a big fan. Thanks for having me. Thanks very much vernice. Thanks for during. Has. It doesn't end here. There's more to this conversation and you can hear it on epicenter premium as a premium subscriber. You'll get access to a private rss feed where you can hear the interview debrief and get enhanced features like full episode transcripts and chapters, which allows you to easily skip to specific sections of the interview. You'll also get exclusive access to round table conversations with epicenter hosts and bonus content we put up from time to time. Premium dot episode. TV. To become a subscriber and support the podcast.

developer Blockchain blockchain Jack o'halloran Apple CEO and Co founder Joe And CEO and Co US NASA Palo Alto Amazon Austrailia Tex Nassau
Be interesting (5 minute version)

"Global Leadership with Greg Parry"

04:43 min | 4 months ago

Be interesting (5 minute version)

"Hi My name is Greg Parry and I am the CEO and Co founder of Global Services and Education. We set up and manage international schools in all different parts of the world. I left my home country Australia in two thousand and eight and since that time I've lived in six different countries of the world. I have now traveled to fifty nine different countries and of course now I've developed a strong passion for cultural diversity and understanding an about different parts of the world. I launched my podcast series called Global Leadership because I was passionate about understanding different culturally diverse behaviors and understanding how people behave as leaders and managers in different parts of the world and how I can interact and be more effective working with them and cultural diversity. It is something I'm very interested and passionate about. I believe there are so many things that are the same about cultures but behaviors look a little bit different and helping people navigate and understand that for business or personal reasons is something I'm very interested. I want talk to you today though about the concept of being interesting. Particularly during this pandemic period we spent a lot of time looking at screens. Maybe computers televisions. Maybe people spend time on video games. You might have spent time trying to battle with your teenager to say, hey get away from the video game and go outside and do something different. Well, of course we don't want our young people just to spend time just on video games or just watching television. But wouldn't we also not want them just to read books or just to have one or two interests. I think it's important to encourage a young people and adults as well to broaden our interests, to expand our worldview. It's important to be interesting. Have you ever been to a barbecue or family celebration? Maybe you've met someone for the first time and after one or two minutes you realize that they only have one thing to talk about. And you're struggling to think about what the next topic is that you might be able to connect with. The truth is we need to have a variety of interests. We need to expand our worldview. It makes us more interesting and it makes us more effective when talking to other people as well. Let me take an example of something I don't know very much about at all. Let's say car racing. If I meet someone for the first time and they only have one real passionate interest and that is car racing I'm probably going to have trouble spending a lot of time with them. Because I don't have anything to connect with. I don't know very much about car racing at all. Maybe my response could be. What is it about car racing that you enjoy so much? With that question alone IIIcan make a different connection. Maybe IIIcan connect with the passion that I have for being competitive or adrenaline. We need to broaden skills and abilities in a range of different areas. It makes us more effective if we have a range of different abilities and skills in key areas then we can certainly adapt. Let's take this recent pandemic situation. Those people that have been able to adapt more quickly than others are those that had a broad range of skills or abilities. We need to challenge ourselves to take up new hobbies and habits to learn about new different areas of the world to learn new things. We need to have an appetite for being different for setting ourselves apart from others or should I say setting ourselves apart from the natural pathways that are so easily found, easy to travel. The truth is we will become more attractive to others both personally and professionally if we have a wide variety of interests. We're going to be more adaptive and to use modern jargon we can pivot more easily when we have a range of skills to rely upon. Let's encourage friends family, our and our young people to be more adaptive, to expand our interests and knowledge about different things to become more interesting. Because if we can do that we certainly can improve our relationships with others and conversations are more easy to have. We're going to have more skills and abilities and we just kind of know a wide variety of things so when we face new challenges, and we're going to continue to face more challenges in the future, when we face different and unusual situations. We'll have different modes to draw upon and we'll have different skills to draw upon to pivot and change direction and make sure we succeed in the new world again. Let' all focus on being interesting. It will help us be more successful in our personal and professional lives as well.

CEO and Co founder of Global S Greg Australia Perry two minutes
Why Marketing Matters with Jon Miller, CEO and Co-Founder of Engagio

Marketing Trends

36:31 min | 11 months ago

Why Marketing Matters with Jon Miller, CEO and Co-Founder of Engagio

"I'm Alec Baldwin. And you're listening to marketing trends and the Leeds Art Week Hello and welcome to marketing trends. This is producer. Ben Wilson. Today's episode features and interview with John. Miller John is the CEO and Co founder engaged. He was also a CO founder and vice president of marketing at Marquette. John is one of the pioneers of both marketing automation and account based marketing on this interview. Talks about what he finds meaningful about marketing and why he decided to build a career in the space as well as reinventing marketing and how he has managed to create new categories. It's an awesome episode of big. Thank you to John Coming on. The show enjoy marketing trends is created by the team at mission dot org sponsored by Salesforce Dot B. that'd be marketing automation on the world's number one. CRM Are you ready to take your B. Two B. Marketing to new heights with dot marketers can find a nurture leads close more deals and maximize is our ally learn more by visiting dot dot com slash podcast or click the link in the show notes. Here's your host Ian Face on marketing trends. I mean phase on Chief Content Nassir here mission dot Org. We are at serious decisions on the main floor or as we have with a couple of these episodes in our little fish booth and I'm sitting to my left is owned by Carello. We have switched seats. It is amazing to be live recording recording live at serious decisions. That's the seat that ruined walks by in ways it is true. Hopefully you guys will not be able to tell when I get distracted attractive waving at the thousands of incredible marketers. That are serious decisions today and to my right is former podcast guests. John Miller for the second back in time. What's going on? Hey has good beer. You know we were talking before this episode about how many of the serious decisions that both of you combine have been too and it's the numbers numbers probably a lot and we wanted to just do an episode kind of like looking back at the the past number of years founded Marchetto longtime ago. Now you know the first one of these two was when you were so marquette own now all you know. been to a few had engaged. Joe But we wanted to talk about like reinventing Martinez. Something that used in the past number also going to touch on what meaningful marketing is so. Can you share first off. What do you find meaningful marketing? Yeah I mean this is a topic. I've been thinking a lot about i. I think about you cocktail party and you tell people like what are you. I'm in marketing. You know I I think more more often than Ny. When you say that you get a negative reaction from people Yeah and they look at you and they're like Oh so you send spam whatever and like just kills me the career that I've sort of given my love and passion to for so many years is one that most people out there have a negative connotation tation to Harris Poll. They do every year about trust and different professions changes up and down a little bit each year. But always you know nurses is a really really high military's pretty well actually pleased as better that I would think concern how a lot of people think about you know police these days. They'll have marketings profession but they do have advertising advertising way down at the bottom in fact one of the only professions that come in lower than that is congress so like it kills me that this is how people think about this profession. I am I was talking to a friend of mine. The other day WHO's a lawyer and ended up saying something along along the lines of I mean you're at marketing? You just make stuff up for a living and I went awful hurtful hurtful not true. It was half kidding and I was like only half kidding though so I mean that's that's one of those things are like that's a positive. Yeah making stuff up. That's great but you know Wolf made stuff up Picasso like me. Yeah right it's always in how you position it but that's Kinda the way you're getting right. Is this kind of like glass. I have full glass half empty. Sort of a look marketing right. Well I mean I think about it Kinda than from an economic perspective right. I mean just literally like if somebody buys something that they give you money for it right. They believe that the economic value or utility. They're going to get for the thing they're buying is worth more for the money they're giving up And so in that transaction values being created the world is actually being made better because of the transaction and all marketing is is trying to facilitate the value creating transactions. That's a good thing. Why can't the rest of the world kind of understand that so I've been sort of on this mission to kind of figure out? So how can we make marketing more meaningful. What I've realized is there's two sides of the equation? The first one is it's got to be meaningful to the the end customer can't be spammy you know. It can't be irrelevant to them. It's gotTa actually somehow make their life better because of that that interaction that's why content marketing so amazing totally right because content marketing delivers value education. So at least it. Entertains that's useful. It's my personalization so important right because it's way easier to be relevant and add value when you're actually kind of personalized completely to the person and if I think about what what is going to make a company a longstanding company at I mean you started Marchetto in two thousand and five engaged in two thousand fifteen and building these longstanding companies it is. How do you drive value for the customer? How are you thinking what can I do to actually better their lives? Their businesses and not not breaking that idea apart from this is what the product does but marketing does this other thing. It's no marketing the product your business should be ultimately driving value for the long term success of your customers back to the point about kind of the transfer of utility absolutely and that kind of thing I mean my career has been all about trying signed to start companies that can help marketing be more relevant more personalized and so I think that kind of customer meaning to the customer is is important but then I realized there's this other side meaningful marketing also which is the meaning it gives to the marketer themselves near kind of story from from my own career career early on in the days that Marchetto they started doing sales club year two or three and all the top sales people get to go to this thing. I'm from my job before at Epiphany as a market I'd kind of like look from the sidelines totally Oh why are those people get into club. You did all this work to exactly exactly and then there was one year the first year when we were doing club they basically you know the sales team together and said hey you know what we know that we he couldn't have achieved the results. We achieved without the support for marketing. Right we want to bring somebody from marketing to club and turns out. We actually brought somebody from my team. which is totally cool cool but they actually bought me a new TV to make also helped me realize that that work? I did as a marketer had meaning because it made an impact on the company made an impact on sales. So how do you measure. I mean like if you know for your employees I mean. Obviously you know you're the CEO now but you run a team of marketers as well you know inside the the organization you work with markers every day. How do you think we can provide more meaning and give them you know things that allow you? You know positive reinforcement of of cool stuff that you get rewarded for taking experiments And running with those you get rewarded for for that type of success. Because I think that's one of the hard things is like it's pretty frigging by an area for salesperson. Has Their number not right since I. It's pretty easy to just at the end. And that's why they like it markings a little. So how do you look at you know incentivizing that good behavior you. Yeah I mean I think conservative ising good behavior markings on Sara Lee the same as is this kind of meaning peace but at least for a B. Two B. Company and that's this audience here right. It seems like an almost always comes from making a positive impact on awesome It's one of the things where you know it when it happened. 'cause the sales team. They're pretty good about being appreciative. When they actually see about shame thing you know value being delivered? It's right at the core though like the challenge that sales marketing not always getting along. I will say one of the things that when I was running and Some of the marketing teams at box. When I knew we finally crossed the chasm between the relationship between sales and marketing WHIZ? Is someone on my team. Invited to club Bob and just like you or I went. Oh my gosh. Someone on marketing got invited to club. Does anyone else understand. What a big deal? This is that you have officially correct us and you get to you. Know nominate three people outside of the Sales Organization and it tends to be an essay or someone who who helps you close all these deals. You just saw marketing as having that that degree of value which all of the marketers no but we just never get recognized. And it's funny that you said that and it was the my moment of. I've officially done this job. Well I mean marketers. We we work really hard. I would say marketers working. At least it's harder and harder than sales people don't get the glory. Don't get the box on the why we chose it then but it. But but it's those moments of meeting that I think is actually you know marketers aren't coin-operated most markers in it because of the high salaries are in it because they want to have impacts like. Yeah absolutely I mean just some examples from your career from the teams that you built or things like that where you kind of saw a marketer on your team feel like they really. We are getting meaning from their job. I'll give you a couple stories so charming. Genie is the one in who runs a global demand generation engage. Oh now we hired her marquette. Oh to lead the enterprise initiatives enterprise marketing think. And if you're a company like Marchetto was which is mostly smb all of a sudden. You're coming along and trying to be an enterprise company. It's kind of a hard hard thing to accomplish. That's a big ship to turn. She came in and decided that kind of her. I initiative is going to be an enterprise executive give track at the Marquette Summit And put together cross functional program to kind of make it happen. You know which involved obviously contracts ever content some VIP experiences and a really aligned effort with sales to get those top executives from from big companies to come to this event that historically had been seen as a practitioner conference so she worked really hard with Lyman and it was pulled it off and it was really meaningful thing in terms of helping to bring marquette to that next level and the sale l.. Seem you could tell they appreciate it. They told her they talked about it. and you could just see that she made her here you know one of the things probably virtually lauren but so One of my customers. So I'm Lifelong Oakland Raiders Fan and one of my customers. I was working really hard to get the raiders customer. When I was sewing media is like one of those things what do they need like? What is Whatever and so they had this really cool school day where it was like four hundred students students from like East Palo Alto where I come to a raiders game and they were like doing much stem stuff and we created like a custom issue of some jobs? You interviewed multiple players One of cheerleaders is like a biochemist or something like that and then to the athletes. Were like stem majors. Interviewed them. We did this whole like custom thing. There's kind of like football. Plus Sciences is really cool thing and I gave it to their Martina and like it wasn't technically. They're marketing teams a sports franchise. So different idea that like the team that worked on that it was something like so new and novel and something that they could give to all of these students and if you felt kind of impact stuff and I was like me as a marketer was like this was awesome like this was something that like I feel really good that we could create with them because it was cool to me because I was a raiders fan but also really cool oh to see these kids realizing that like you know the cheerleader. That they're watching it. The game was a frigging biochemists stuff and you kind of get into the meaning point. I think this rise of like social impact in all sorts of there's so many ways to make like one plus one equals three or is like so many different moving parts there. I think stuff like that is like we're or at the very very very tip of personalization and how we can create meaningful experiences content and all sorts of stuff for other people. I'm glad you brought that up because you know often when you talk about meaningful marketing where people go is kind of social impact You know Tom's shoes one guy. One you know those types of things and that's great that's awesome. I mean fanned on getting your own problems. We all work for those businesses or has his margin or margin fair enough. And so you know if you're an enterprise software company and your market at that company. I still believe you can find meaning your work and you can do it. Not necessarily because you're helping poor kids or teaching women about stammer whatever is the the key thing but it's because you're delivering value their customer burn. You're making an impact to your to your sales people and who doesn't want to as a marketer walkaway incredibly proud of the work that you did and have have these. These memories of this was the great campaign that Iran. This is how I rebuilt the relationship with sales. This is how I turned what could have been a simple media execution into something deeper and more meaningful and we all want to do work. We're incredibly proud of no one. Says you know what I'd like to show up at work. Do you kind of a mediocre job and you know. Walk away nobody notices. Maybe some people do but they're probably not most marketers hitters and definitely not the marketers listening to this. And it's the you wanted you something. That's inspiring. That really drives that big serve that big result that big impact. And I think I love the sort of phrase meaningful marketing and how we get to do more of that and less less throw-away work in many ways. I think that there's been an evolution and in how marketing things about self. Since the Marchetto days I remember a lot in the early days Marchetto I talked about marketing. Earning respect marketers marketers needed to be seen as people who don't just like throw parties and print color pictures arts and crafts. Yeah but they earn a seat of the revenue table and I feel like that was an arc. That marketing is driven. which has been great? I think this meaningful marketing is the next ARC. How do you actually derive meaning from the work? I think here. I think you're completely right and I think this brings up so many interesting points of how different the world of marketing was in two thousand and five versus two thousand fifteen versus cheap. Stay in two thousand and nineteen and how how much the discipline has evolved. How much perception of marketing has involved and what works today? Probably didn't work yesterday and probably won't work tomorrow. Yeah so let's let's put on our tin foil hats here and go into the future a little bit. Let's reinvent some of these kind of marketing ideas. How do you think that they did has changed? Like up to now and like what you see as some of those kind of ten pull things that are going to carry US onward. Yep Yeah I mean it's funny. Yeah I mean we started marquette. Who in two thousand five and Google ad words at the time was just a couple years old? When did you first buy your I pay per click probably like oh three or four thousand three? I bought my first paper. Click add it was very exciting. You were super early adopted right so by the time you know early. Two thousand five it comes around with Marchetto people were honestly for the first time generating leads a any kind of scale and the business problem was they needed a place to capture these things a place to put them to do something with them. And that's where marketing automation came from. You know this kind of online lead generation to revenue to new business process and great. It's all of that problem really well. And Lots of successful companies came from that they just looted too far from the business problem today We talked to her loss. podcast a lot about account based marketing. And obviously that's a big change just the move from. It's not just about the individual lead but a whole behind committee especially as you sell to bigger companies to simple trend from these two accounts. That's a big one but it is more than that. Sasse was relatively new in two thousand and five cats and now not just offer but like every business this whole description razors and car rides uh-huh description now and it means that that kind of focus on just the new business. The new lead is not nearly as relevant anymore as is kind of post sale customer journey expansion revenue and the tools like Marchetto are still very focused on the new business. Now you generate a lead that account get smart closed one boom forever now. It's a cost. It's closed one. Yeah a new lead comes in for a whole other product. The system does know what to do with it completely before the show you asked about vendors. That weren't here before when kind of like we're sitting around eight years ago. I mean I don't know how many vendors are in this in this room right now. There's like one hundred. We're surrounded by all these marketing technology companies at serious decisions and two point who existed ten years ago. Just within eyeshot here I see too intense vendors Yeah tools like Marchetto Alachua part you know are really good at first party intent But now another big trend is third party intent and all the different intense signals that were showing based on our digital footprint and based on different buying behavior and to your your point this technology and the fact that they're intent vendors is just insane because ten years ago the whole concept of intent the only place to capture user intent in two thousand and five was on the search box and that was those were your intent signals. What are you're searching for? which the time? But obviously there's a lot more. Yeah so I just had need skinner in here from part and we were talking about that info-graphic where it's craigslist back in whenever and it has all the categories circled and then a line pointing to like a company that was created out of just that one category on craigslist. It's like carousing and it's like zillow and then it's like rentals and it's like you know airbnb and on and on down the line and like you know cars dot com everything. Just how much business was built just off offer that I kind of looking around here now. It's almost as a similar sort of a different. With how many vendors were born out of needs needs. Were there things that you all were talking about back. Then where you're like someone's gonNA solve this someday. You know not a no five but ultimately really I left Marcado in two thousand fifteen. 'cause I did see that there was gonna be a whole new way of technology and a new generation platform so not to say I doc perfectly pressure or whatever but it was pretty clear to me in two thousand fifteen that at least the pace of innovation I saw from tools like marquette it was really slowing down it was creating new opportunities. And then there's also seeing these really interesting just general macro chefs. That have happened that have started to create all of these different needs of in two thousand as an five. Our phones were phones now in two thousand and five the last thing our phone is used for is actually dialing and calling somebody else and and I think about you talked a little bit about the. This is the importance of after the sale happens after sale. This is how you're going to engage in. Why a lot of tools and technology analogy for that? What I've seen? That's been super interesting. Is these APPs. First companies companies. Where maybe maybe yes? Maybe no even with a website website. They are companies like Com. which is it's an APP on your phone for meditation? Those companies the idea of the SAL is important but they think customer I how do I drive usage. How do I drive adoption? How do I really focus on driving value? Because if they don't they don't have a business model and now that whole idea of these are Po- sales engagement that is native to sort of APP I companies now all of these companies are finally starting to go wait a second this I need this. This is something that's important where they wouldn't have thought of that and the technology wouldn't have existed for a lot of that engagement ten years ago five years ago because we were never trained to actually think about what happens after the sale and it was just training. I mean there's so many I mean I mean Marchetto we had in quotas for leads generated and we generated a response from somebody who worked in existing. Customer didn't Count Classic. which so he'll to this day kills maybe companies and so it's not the systems that don't support but also the incentives metrics mindsets and all that kind of thing back to thinking there's all these different things have changed and marketing very very briefly? The the the last major trend these days more and more companies are sending less email from there mark mason platform and more out of their sales Dell's team through sales engagement to. Yeah Yeah you know and I think because they recognize that it's more human it's more personalized. It's less likely to get hit by SPAM. That's another big trend. They just kind of the balance between true automation versus the human touch. So you have all these factors that are playing. Ah I think you'll lose this a marketer. You're looking around you're buying seventy ten different platforms via so when you talk to arguing later last night. Ah The dinner. That they're forty four and you know what I believe that because there's so much technology there are so many so what so many more needs that are happening and it's well if I can automate best buy this for this automation and by this this degree of sale enable men and I will buy this for intense scoring by all of these different tools. And I'm GonNa need everything together. which is honestly why companies like meal soft? API integrations are are the future right now because all we do is technology together but it's getting more and more complicated for marketers and something that I kinda keep keep going back to an anchoring on is what I love about. Marketing is the combination and the blending of art and science. You have the hard science and you have the data and you have the numbers in in this data driven marketing. But if all you have that it's if that's all you have it's not going to work. You can't lose the art. The emotion the narrative the story telling the building deep engagement. And if you think about where a lot of marketing is going right now you have this one side which is let's think about Ai. And Bart Art and Bart's hey and bots and machine learning and what can we do for automation and personalization. That is you drop everything into into a data warehouse you run a bunch of algorithms and it spits out the right answer which is awesome but you also need to have the. What is the high touch touch uman experience of what is the human connection and engagement in personalization because of all we have is the date and the numbers in the box and the A and the machine learning all we have is the science of marketing and we lose the heart and the soul of it and we can't lose the heart and the soul of it? I mean even in the word automation can right. I mean it built into it. Sounds like robots humidity in there. I see some people trying to use the and all that to kind of replicate the human right and the problem with that. Is You know you've heard animation the Uncanny Valley so the classic examples that movie the Polar Express. Yes you know. We're like they try to make something something human but it's not quite and therefore it's creepy. I think the same thing happens I right. Where if you can't the technology is there? I don't know if it's ever going to be there to truly kind of like replaced kind of the actual human touch and so I think a lot of tools that kind of completely try to automate it and looking creepy. You're talking about that with Greg and Shaun. The ideas like at the end of the day the. Ai Doesn't have a favorite TV show. You have a favorite sport. It's you know kid didn't get its first. You know literally game on an emotional basis to add and so therefore it has story and therefore it has limited amounts of recall that you know you can have. It's just not memorable like it's inherently like devoid of that so I love the phrase that augmented intelligence. It makes human smart like gives you superpowers and kind of the last piece I wanted to touch on with with the reinventing. Marketing thing is kind of reinventing to Cmo like you're having lots of conversations with CMO's marketing leaders all the time. What what are the things that they share with you in confidence? What are the things that they're worried about that? They're kind of nervous about that. Are Going to happen over the next five to ten years. It's a good question. I think one of the trends that I see happening is that discuss lawrence point earlier. That marketing marketing has become so data driven in the last ten years that there are. CMO's out there who are realizing the company has many ways lost its ability to tell stories And you can't ignore that you know. And so that's one that's one I see especially in the last ten years who got promoted to the CMO spot right often probably more often than it came from people who came from the demand Gen background. Yeah not the corporate marketing of the product marketing background which is fine for that but demand Gen by you you know. I mean. I'm not saying those people can't tell stories but it's sort of less the cord of their background and so now you have come to really go to the next level level kind of bringing that storytelling capability. It's so hard for some marketers. I think so. That's one kind of big trend. Icy kind of in the CMO sweet. The other one is probably something. You'd hear a bunch of other people too so maybe less interesting but just the CMO is the store to the customer Yeah there's there's especially in the world weather's account management and sales no the customer experience customer. Success says it's kind of its own team. You know you've got support. You've got a customer marketing people sitting in marketing trying to references in case studies. Do you have this conflict in towns like okay. Who owns that relationship? Yeah and you probably more often than either defaults somebody in sales. But there's an awful lot of I think good research says that marketing probably is the right function to truly the customer owner. And I I completely agree and I've seen this pop up a couple of times. Recently where companies look to hire VP of marketing or a CMO and then it pivots to to achieve customer officer who really runs the marketing side and owns the customer and customer experience and customer success in customer engagement because the market or at least from my perspective should be the closest to the customer. We should know yes. This is what prospects think feeling care about and this is how we're going to get them in but after they become a customer. How do we continue to understand what they care about? Make sure we Dr Al.. You make sure that marketing campaign. Actually we were able to deliver on drove value and keep them all the way through and you know helping find upsell and cross hell is great but it really is that value focus so we we did some research back Marquette. Oh that we'd never actually published for reasons. Related to the methodology research. Take take this small grain of salt but what we did was we looked at companies and we sort of correlated their growth rates to various sales marketing factors that we could find part of the reason. We didn't publish this because we didn't find. Actually many Sicily vowed correlations but there was one that actually stood out as seeming -nificant and that was there was a correlation between companies that paid the CMO part of their comp based on net promoter score higher growth rates and. There was a one of the only thing is that we're able to find so the research that actually stood out to have a positive correlation to growth. So that always struck me as a pretty interesting thing. Do you think about new. And if you you think about that it's several factors. The first thing is the company cares about net promoter score which is awesome. And it's you actually care of your customers would recommend Mendi and would find value in knowing that this is something that the marketer has to focus on. Our job isn't just how DO I. How do I get a deal in? How do I get this close? How do I sort of help? The top of the funnel it is. How do I make sure we market to be right? Prospect we deliver the right. It matters that we can actually back up once they purchase and then after they purchase. We don't sort of abandon them and we what did I somebody told me. Recently we bring them in and we hug them in the non creepy way. Don't touch people exactly virtual and very safe virtual. We love you. Let's make sure as we continue to be trusted partner. I I completely completely agree with that. I don't think enough companies have marketing caring about net promoter score and I would be surprised how many marketers have ever really thought about it. Usually they think. Oh that's for the customer success team this job. And you're like no. It is every single person. The company's job to make sure we're driving value and delivering happy pain customers. What other you got anymore those nuggets? That was pretty good. Well no I don't The research you know Lawrence pointed it could just be that the reason that correlation exists because companies that care about more net promoter are more likely to then pay marketing on it so that it drives the right behavior behind the market. In fact I think that the thing there is like so as long as you pin the rose on someone in the company that is compensated on net promoter score. That's probably you know against anecdotal but as long as someone is owning it. That's the first. Yeah that'd be the further research to figure out. Is it just because marketing owns or or just because the company really cares and somebody owns it. That's really fascinating all right. As long as we're on the topic you know there was one other smaller less significant directional insight which was younger. CMO's we're tied to faster growth rates and again. Don't take this too far in terms of like hard conclusion but directionally you know it could be interesting that the younger. CMO's are a little bit more likely to embrace. NEW IDEAS SAYS MODERN techniques new ideas new technology. Being more open to try. This came out. I don't know what's going to happen versus being more stuck back in your ways. which is a generalization but directionally completely completely believe match? You know there's a great quote is actually Harry Potter quote Then download our says something along the lines of young people. Don't know what it's like to fuel old but old men would like would be remiss if they didn't remember what is like to be. Young right is idea that I think there's an interesting note there for the fact that you don't know what it's like to be you know to be more experienced in your career but you when you are more experienced you know what it's like to be surround yourself with young people and I think you're young and energetic and whatever way that they are young or sometimes just beginners mindset I would think I would be so curious to know 'cause I don't know if it age because we don't have a robust data set but I would be curious if like growth mindset mindset beginners. Mindset this idea of just like that. You don't have all the answers because you haven't spent a career with all the answers so you're just kind of looking for different things because because I think that that's one of the things like no matter your age if you're curious at pretty much every famous executive has said that like they were you you know passionately curious which innovation but I just think that that especially now that that's like being evangelized a little bit more We just watched a guy walked by. who absolutely tripped on something? He's breaking stuff At least they didn't walk into the booth. Right I think that the takeaway there is about having a beginner's mind. I said how important that is. Something that many talks about all the time and create and Sean had in their notes how important beginners mindset was being. CMO At salesforce back in the day. Completely it's you don't you don't you don't know and you can't make assumptions. I the more. It's the pros and cons of experience when you have a ton of experience. It's easy to look at something and say Oh. I've seen this movie before this is. This is what I'm going to do. Where if you've never seen that movie you have to dig in and figure it out and I my guess or assumption is what's going to differentiate exceptional CMO's from okay or good CMO's are the ones that will have that experienced to pull from? But also the I don't know all of the answers and I'm going to look at everything with this with this beginner's mind set this engine. This can come full circle back to our meaningful marketing conversation. A little bit because one of the ways you're marketing can be meaningful is if you're learning from it. Yeah soon growing so I think a lot of marketers. Marketers should be thinking about that as well in terms of kind of how they're tackling their careers. You know not just kind of doing but but is this educational experience Nath Nath. Well thanks again for coming. You're welcome anytime you came of

Marquette Marchetto Miller John Marchetto raiders executive vice president of marketing CEO and Co founder Salesforce Alec Baldwin John Miller Lawrence VP of marketing Joe But Harris Poll Ny. Ben Wilson Carello Leeds
Building A Unicorn LIVE

Building A Unicorn

01:52 min | 3 months ago

Building A Unicorn LIVE

"Hey, building a Unicorn listeners. It's Chris. I wanted to send you a short message to tell you about a brand new event series that we're launching. It's called building a Unicorn live, and it's your opportunity to experience. A live recording of this podcast at every event will feature interview with an amazing found up, and then you'll have the chance to ask them questions a very I live. Recording is happening this coming Monday June twenty. At Ten am the Strategy Eastern Standard Time. If you're in the US that's five PM, Pacific on Sunday June twenty-first out very event. WILL FATE CHECK KATE SAVE? Kate is the CEO and Co founder of beef it food accompany, which makes ready made meals. The healthy eating beef food featured on shark tank, backing, 2017, scoring and investment from this chiefs founder Janine Allis once the show Ed. The company achieved exponential growth in just four weeks they had to grow from five stop to sixty three just to handle the demand from the show, and that demand has continued. They've grown exponentially. Since and they also have plans for international expansion. Kate is a fascinating founder and you don't want to miss this interview. You can register for free using the link in the episode. Show notes. You can also find the link on our facebook and twitter. Just search for build a Unicorn. We only have a limited number of spots for this live recording said. Please make sure you register up I'll speak to you again soon.

founder KATE Janine Allis US facebook CEO and Co twitter four weeks
AJ Bruno: Hiring Trusted Talent

Hire Power Radio

19:37 min | 3 months ago

AJ Bruno: Hiring Trusted Talent

"This is the higher power radio show before we get started. Let's take care of little housekeeping. Traditional resumes and interviews can be biased and subjective, leading you to overlook high potential talent, who didn't have the perfect resume or cookie cutter background uncover that hint potential learn more at Criteria Corp Dot com that's Sierra. He Dot Com. Most advanced recruiting take. Land, the most desirable talent. Your company towards a massive success. This is the higher power radio show with Rick Girard. Why you need to hire trusted talented building scale, your startup referrals are still the strongest way to stack the deck of telling your organization, but you cannot short. Cut The interview process just because the person has worked well in another organization does not mean that they will be successful at yours diligence in gathering evidence, value, growth, and cultural alignment must be gathered to avoid making a bad higher. I'm Richard. Welcome to the Higher Power Radio Show. We help entrepreneurs and hiring managers. Managers avoid costly higher mistakes by identifying specific problem and providing proven solutions to enable your company to win the red higher we share insights from top performing rebel, entrepreneurs, disruptors and industry experts like our guest today. Mr Aj Bruno, he is the CEO and Co founder of quota path AJ, lead the team as the CEO and CO founder prior quarter. Path J. spent six years at trend, the company he co founded, and it was the president of in Austin Texas at. Aj led the go to market and sell strategy execution, and took the company from initial team product inception through a twenty million dollar annual recurring revenue and two hundred and fifty employees Tranquilli was acquired by the public company ses on for two hundred, twenty, five, million in January two, thousand, nine, thousand, nine, hundred and Asia's religious about vetting and hiring talent, and has made over three hundred hires in his career, which is what makes aj the perfect. Perfect expert today's topic AJ welcome to the higher power radio. Show Henrik. Thanks for having me really really appreciate it. I think when you find. Tune my career into those words, some interesting things there and three hundred hires for sure I. It's Taco go last decade. Think back, but I remember some of them for sure all the individual interviews that I've had over the years. You always remember the really good ones, and the really bad ones, right? In. Kaplan's to I, think I was a part of the problem of being the bad part of the interviews. You learn from your mistakes. Though of course I think we all start out. I today we're going to be discussing why trusted talent is the best option to build and scale your startup. We're talking about what to do when you don't have a strong network and they're going talk about the steps to take to hire through referrals a plan. Yeah, that sounds great. All right awesome, so let's talk a little bit about your story. And how you came to the conclusion of why hiring trusted talent is the best route. Yeah, I think I. Look back at my career in the sales walk. Walk it in a lot of the conversations that you have in cold Kolkata sales. They tend to actually happen on the hiring front as well. You think about your pitching product. You're pitching who you are, you're Y. This is the right type of company to work with, and so a lot of snail feels that I had just got transferred over to Iranian recruiting in my first company trend card when we were thinking about what we wanted to culture over company will look like in the Markle company Michael. Strong backgrounds in beat ask sales, and so our early hires had that Wayne. Pipe Energy Seems Neil of a lot of Celebrate Story Markings, and so that really were on. About hiring are thought about the people that I wanted to work with in the future I've since diversified out certain skill stats in type of person, and not everyone has to be a tight, great personality, a strong eight talent player of course. Yeah, absolutely not I mean I think it's all different personality types or players right? You don't want to Taipei for an engineering role. Case I regret Arrow. We'll have monthly years with every single person in the company. And then the end of the month rolled around in like everyone, product and engineering. We'll come, or but we're not gonNA. Take five all shots on desks like. All right, so let's talk about your network I. Mean you've built up a network over the past few years? So you've got probably a pool to pull from? So how are you attracting? People Lover, actually more importantly. Why is it important that you focus in on trusted talent first before you go out to the market and take another route? Yeah, I mean fortunate to work with some really fantastic people over the year. Anything Helps Dr. Ord, in and I've always I work with this Portland. I know. I was going to be a great person to work I. Think a lot of that comes on with a loyalty in the trust and respect you each mutually show with each other for example. Past weeks hired our first account. Management sales hires at quarterback and second company. Real mentioned outside of the intro, but this company seventeen folks and most of the product wall near or far for the first two years. We're bringing hockey. The market and I had a rule of equal I want to work with a and I heard cultivating relationship again early so a year and a half ago I. Hey, Rub your work with you again. Let's continue to make sure that we're walking or approximate. What would businesses and what stage in so we'll started as I said, Warren main one. Month in those roles and those are for five plus years, and crushed it at recruits company, and we'll crush it a quote. Ask So okay, but what about? If you don't have a network when getting started, you might know of few people I mean. What are you doing when you don't have a network in? How are you getting? Those people so walk me through that year that build up. Up to that for sure, and I think that's true for people that are either starting their first company that expounding it right from the GIECO or hiring people for specific roles that they'd never hired anyone for it can be a demand Gen made the joke with you earlier chief ice maker. I've never hired one of those, but I'm sure those exist around I. WanNa hire one. That'd be amazing workers. On look like. That will look like I would again look in my own network of people that I trust either mentors or advisers and ask them like Hey, who's the them and then person you know who's the absolute best? Rockstar Mandarin person might not be able to hire that person, but that person might know who the up and coming demand Gen Persson is see you being a natural sales guy, though like you ask for referrals right at you and I both do this. Yeah. I look at recruiting very similar to sales right I. mean it's almost similar process, right? So, you're always asking for referrals, but if you're a founder who doesn't have a sales background. That's an uncomfortable thing for a lot of people to dig into I mean I think eventually. If you're founder, your snail during recruiting, you're always asking me over. How white like weathered venture whether we're on friends and family, but you just have to have those conversations in successful. There's no. No way around that so even if he was over email. You don't have to be so forward. It's like Oh, calling, might our network and saying hey, you know this person. You can still do it in a soft way like who someone that you respect very much in this role isn't art ask? It's just like a General Committee open conversation where they're like well why? I'm thinking about actually making a higher in that regard news thing that makes sense I just need to make sure that what I'm thinking of mixed sense to someone actually knows this role swollen. This responsibility so I want to have that initial conversation with them that initial conversation might returning to a job opportunity or might leaper path of bikes news three people that you meet the popular just continually asking all those questions really important so the way in. In which you asked that I want you say that again, but this is really important point. You didn't ask who's looking. You asked. Who has the best person the you know who does this? Yeah, and that's a really key point because you're not making it about yourself and what you need. You're making it about them. It's like who's just such a bad ass. He was like someone. You're like I. Have to work with this person again because you're. Immediately Open Upright. They're going up. You need to talk to this person this person versus hey, how can I hurry? you can't. And by the way that's a much easier conversation you being a founder or an entrepreneur is from recruiter asking that question because that just. Like, what are you want? Yeah, why bother me? Over Lincoln for Trent, Kite I did this exact thing with the sales hires when I, I still have all their Lincoln methods or k., and this is true. I heard. You're really good at your job. I'd loved by copy just started a startup Austin on new to. Would you be open to just like catching up with me? And that opens so many doors? My first five hires would be exactly that way I still joke with the person rehired. I became director. When really good friends with if that was the way to hire. Lincoln NASA Jasper coughing indirect. Right into all right. You're listening to the higher power. Radio Show I'm your host Richard for our podcast listeners? We're GONNA. Take a quick educational moment from our sponsors. Every employer wants to hire great people, but do you know what a great person looks like? Assessments? Give you a multidimensional view of the individual that you can never see from a resume alone, not only can you make a more informed objective hiring decision, but you can also uncover some hidden gems and your talent pool along the way, the result, higher performance, long-term attention, and a much stronger team learn more at criteria, Corp Dot Com. That's CRI T ARA CRP. Dot Com. Hey checkout stride search dot com, there you'll find additional content and resources to help you. Land. Great hires our guest. Today is AJ. Bruno CEO and Co founder of quota path. We talked a little bit about hiring trusted talent why that's important and now we're GonNa talk about how to do it, so let's lay out for entrepreneurs who haven't gone through this journey. How you do it so I. Think when we talked you said the very first thing you WanNa do is reverse engineer your network, right? Let's talk about that. How do you do that? Yeah? Engineering our network is just simply taking the time to go through whether you're Lincoln or whether it's your mel contact and understanding. Who are the people that want to Dispenser Talk to you in this regard, we don't. Going back to what I said earlier doesn't necessarily mean you have to work with that person, but you WANNA. Make sure you're looking for people, trust and that you know have a lot of oil more ways to do that is there make sure that they're not job hopping? Anything I look for like two to three years at a job, and then I look people by know that organization and I might start to actually back channel already, so of course person's GonNa give you a reference years like three references that you should talk to that I worked with actually do my own independent in connect with at least five people that sounds a lot, but you WANNA get every indication your diligence on, and you do not WanNa make wrong higher know when we case especially for the first and taking on that role. You absolutely don't. You can't afford to make the wrong higher especially in the beginning you have. Diligence so looking for trust and loyalty. Let's talk a little bit about that. Because that's kind of an interesting concept, like millennials get bad rap because they hop around jobs every year year and a hat problematic for you know I look at that as the wide behind a career I think there's a couple of things that are all But before I, got there I consider myself morning, I'm thirty four years old arm right on nineteen five was. Feel like I have a lot of empathy for how they're looking at the world, and how I personally look with the world in terms of career choices and finding behind in a lot of jobs, just really offer. That will talk about patent her ways. If you're fail in a way to really meaningful person, so I think that's something I'll be able to move through a different Lens. I also WANNA. Ask for them. Why did they move from job to job so question during the interview process is hey. You moved from company to company. Why tell me about what motivated you for that move like what was driving? Actually make that move now. For, the answer or continue to begins begins again and make sure they're not your fiasco in your way through like Oh and meeting were fired, but I'll get to the root abroad. Bright continuously asking questions about what was it about this company? Why that really made you say I'm going to go here. You recruited proactively. Were you looking like what was the so that would help me reform inefficient on why they're now looking to move from company. Why to my company? You brought up a good point. It doesn't take very long to sniff out whether or not somebody's lying to you when you digging deep on that sort of thing. To tell up bullshit director comes up we'll. Hit totally does all right. Let's go back channeling because this is something very few entrepreneurs. You're probably one of the few that I've met that actually do this, and this is something I do pretty much regularly because part of my jaw. But when you find somebody you like, you're reaching out to people. They worked with in your gathering their feedback. Prior to the interview during view will when he reach out to these people, each higher is slightly different. If it's an interview where I, really like a person, but maybe I have slight red flag. It's after the interview if it's A. A really really important, higher and one late work before the research obviously aren't stuart so i. don't necessarily wait time referrals in after the interview process, but it is dependent on the situation. I tend to probably lean toward more doing it after that initial conversation because I think it's not fair to Earth do like this cold outreach driving talked to them and can have informed data decisions just based on the conversation. I had with them. No I think you should do when you have somebody who's a viable person who it's looking like. They're moving toward a higher natural. Reason to alert. Looking for entire network on blast, because having one conversation with him doesn't make sense. Yeah, that's a really good point by the way. Don't reach out away prior to backchannel. Somebody to if you do too early, all you're GONNA do is kill your chances of getting that person 'cause. It's going to come back to him all right, so we're talking about the interview process itself. You touched upon this that you'd like. Like to dig in deep on the interview and I loved this. Because what you're doing is you're doing like a socratic method of questioning to get to the truth of what it is that this person's telling you. Do you have anything that you do uniquely said somebody aside so I run two different types of interview process one. We talked about a little boat, which is like this not gic one word for? That happens a little bit more organically with back-channelling or conversations, but I'm having with that person. The other is more of a scale process. A ticket sales higher I might be knowing that in two years I'm going to hire fifty people on this type of role and their own create a consistent framework the one thing. I? Always did the initial interview and I had these markers rapid. I! In one of these days with what we would call on knockout, we're one of sports. Customers was first solar and Elon Musk was involved with for solar so in two thousand twelve remember this eight years ago. Tesla was Starting gets production will pars. pre-sex wasn't ring hang, but I was talking to folks that had attacked background, so they should have some runners. Getting that was her solar. That was usually initial. Then I would say well for solar marks is actually involved with solar familiar with the on las ends. Maybe twenty five percent requirement of course must is, and that's great, but they might say no to that, and then the follow up to that is okay will he's new Tesla? And if they didn't know where those humping that would disqualify them I would say ninety percent of the time I wouldn't automatic automatic fire them, but you gotta keep up with current events, and that was a very clear signal that they weren't just not in tune with who you must was in. That was a problem. That's a clear thing. somebody's way, too. Too, many video games in not really paying attention to what's going on around him. It's tough the judge, but it was deer in headlights on not more ideal person is yeah. We build a knockout questions with our clients as well. It's really important that each interviewer e least ask one that is congruent with something. That's really important to the company Yup. It's got to be built around their values while shoot Aj we're getting pretty close on time. What would be two or three key takeaways that you can give the audience that can plug into their business today repeats of the things I said earlier, but one or mentioned five references, but a minimum at least three references, especially, if the higher is very strategic meaning, it's the first higher in that position to if the higher is going to be a scale processing to hire multiple people create a consistent process, as I mentioned knockout questions, but maybe you also have in common and institution He. He that presentation is thin with all of your hires were coming up, so you can kind of think about how people answer them. Have a lot of data points the number three I will ensure that the is sold on working with new learning from you as much as possible, and this is something I found with people that I hire again. I know I wanna work with and again so I make sure that they know there's going to be a close connection working with me and tears. Things that they're going to learn this time around. That might be different in when we worked. Can I wonder that oh? You absolutely can. You WanNa make sure to the person aligns with where your company's going to go, and they really want that out of their career. I found that that's more powerful higher today. When you offer something they don't have. They can't get where they are boy. You've got yourself a winter dinner. You know what's interesting about that. So hundred percent agree like the trump was a BB sales, SAS company had a very outbound sales motion. Quota Path is what we call product line. Line growth. G It's more product user focused marketing, and so the people hiring not they're gonNA get skill sets that are different from where they got trend Kite. None of this has to do with compensation, Union, talk about call and that's the interesting thing. People want to learn and grow every single day. COMP becomes a secondary thing. ooh, I'm so glad you said I assume that all the time, but the fact that you confirmed it. I love you. Thank you. We're just about out of time for this show. Thanks so much for your time investment today I want to welcome you to the higher power radio. Now what would be the best way in which members of our community can find you and learn more about you? Not as active on twitter, but I am pretty active on linked end, so AJ Bruno. is where you can find me and I post regularly. If you have a direct personal reach out on Lincoln, guarantee, I will answer you also. We didn't talk about go to path. sales commission shocking will, so if you're in sale premium APP and you're welcome Try and using her your reader quarterback dot com where you are not. Oh, that's perfect. Thanks so much I don't want to think our listening audience pretending this absurd of higher power, quick things, Star or Engineer Christopher Decker Producers Andrew Ballen and Ayla Gerard. podcast police describe review share. We're listening. We welcome your feedback after all this show is for you joined the Higher Power Radio, community, higher E. Power POW. A. D. I O. Dot, com, or you drop me an email. Ricketts ride search DOT COM. We're actually going to be taking a vacation next week. Avenue taking a break since like last year or so. We're going to skip, but we'll be playing one of our best episodes for Ya. Thanks for tuning in I'm Rick Girard your host and you'll been listening to the higher power radio show, Aloha. Thank you for listening to higher power radio. Catch how Lincoln I show every Tuesday at noon or download the podcast on iheartradio. I choose you choose your favorite podcast that we appreciate you joining us on high power radio with your guide to recruitment.

Mr Aj Bruno founder Lincoln Rick Girard director Criteria Corp Dot engineer CEO and Co founder Austin Texas Corp Dot Com Taipei J. Asia CEO and CO twitter hockey president Tranquilli Portland Kaplan
498: Closed Lost Reasons - Kieren OConner

Daily Sales Tips

02:04 min | 3 months ago

498: Closed Lost Reasons - Kieren OConner

"You're listening to the daily sales tips. Podcast I'm your host Scott Ingram. Today's tip comes from Kieran. O'connor Kieran is the CEO and Co founder of growth stream a sales consultancy based in London. They've already helped their clients earn over ten million pounds and sales revenue from their B. Two B. Clients since launching in September of twenty eighteen. Here he is with today's hip very much fool listening watching names. Karen O'Connor CEO and Co founder of grocery now my daily especially during this pandemic when sales managers and directors have more time is to go back to your crm and stopped to look at your clothes lost reasons. The reasons why you are losing deals previously an to date for example lost to competition going elsewhere unable to contact price. Start to look at the core reasons as to why you are. Loosening deals on a daily monthly weekly basis. Start to formulate a plan on how you can reduce them numbers for example if you listen to the competition go back and listen to all of them. 'cause where they were closed for lost to competition and stopped formalize. Why is it the industry knowledge? Is it because you ought? Sales team don't have a clear. Us P. is delivering it properly. Start to formalize how you can fix that problem and start to reduce that close rate percentage and start winning more if you can reduce that even by fifty percent. You'll magin the deals that you'll be doing on a monthly and yearly basis changing absolutely nothing from the perspective of money Josh Utilizing the current tools you have for more about growth stream and to connect with Kieron unlinked in just click over to daily sales dot tips forward slash four ninety eight. And we'll have everything for you there including the video version where you can actually see Kieran. You've done that. Be Sure to come back tomorrow for another great sales tip. Thanks for listening.

Kieran Karen O'Connor CEO CEO and Co Scott Ingram Co founder founder London Kieron Josh ten million pounds fifty percent
1331 Procurement Made Simple with Brandon McCarty : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

1:10:07 hr | 8 months ago

1331 Procurement Made Simple with Brandon McCarty : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

"Patients family finances. You've got a lot on your plate. Get the tools you need to keep it. All balanced with members only resources and discounts from the American Dental Association Association. Joined today at eight dot org slash join now It just a huge honor for me today to be podcast of Rain Brandon McCarthy. He's a CEO and Co founder of cure meant INC thank a technology startup. That provides a power of enterprise procurement for any size dental organization. Cure Mint is the first and only own one marketplace and spend management Angela software designed specifically for the needs of dental practices with cure software. Dental practices enjoy their own organizational Amazon where only predetermined German products are offered controlling when those products can be purchased and by whom well gathering meaningful data on Spending Habits Empower Better Business Decisions Cure. German provides an intuitive Amazon like experience optimized for each organization curbing rogue spending and realizing increase operational efficiency. Let's see using German is very simple. Sign up simply identify the number of practice. You have each physical address and send email invite to your staff boom. You're ready to go. I'll pay month-to-month not commitments. No startup costs so Germans. Cloud based system gives everyone a your organization access to the right vendor's anytime anywhere and from any device rollers the time saved the removal of inefficient paper and email processes turn your purchasing and sourcing processes to an organization advantage Save source from multiple suppliers seamlessly through cure market unlocking thousands and contracted savings and perks. burks getting real time control on office budgets and stop rogue spending before this he was the CEO and Co founder of CG see innovative consulting firm that provides fundraising marketing services nonprofits. He also served as an adjunct professor for Pepperdine's NBA Acorss where he taught funding entrepreneurial ventures and just five years ago brandon served as a member of the Seventy Fifth Ranger Regiment where he deployed. It was deployed four times and conducted over a thousand Special Operations Missions Brandon. Thank you so much for doing that while I was sitting home eating cheetos. Yeah well one thing. I'll make clear up. I did not do a thousand. It should have been one hundred so a thousand I was one hundred says yes okay so when we picture I'd have all the guys back in the day make sure they called me to call me on that one so I'm so we're we're we're what country with most of the missions in the middle released so the hot spots over there for sure. Well I'm thanks for serving. Hope you're okay. Hope you survive that so procure so so colony the cycle right I mean. Joseph Shuldiner got a Nobel Prize and Economic South Australia Economists Titan Matt Business Cycles and and I it's the consolidation cycle so when I was older you Patrick. I'm thirty thirty four okay. So I'm fifty seven. I was your age. There was a There was fifteen thousand microbreweries and then it all consolidated everybody was drinking bud coors and Mick and then it deconsolidated again so when I got out of school in eighty seven there was a there was a dental supply company Anthony in every city and then I met the founders rolled them up on Pete for Shadow Patterson. A lot of these guys got a line of credit and they wouldn't bought out all these mom and pop deals and rolled hold up Patterson. Shine all this stuff like that and then about ten years ago it was completely consoldiated. We're probably almost all supply. Probably seventy five percents wise brought by Patterson Persson Shine Benko Burkhardt. And as soon as it hit that Max it's deconsolidating again and there's dental supplies companies opening up how I- podcasts. Four or five in the last six months so it's at a member that game called Pong Pong so it's just a pong and the stock market goes up. It comes down it consolidates a deconsolidate. Where are we now in in? Dental supplies is mainly what you're you're you're procuring. It's dental supplies that mostly that or is it office supplies lab right right so today. We're focusing primarily on clinical older dental supplies as well as office supplies so really anything on the front office and back office piece now laboratories a whole different animal. We haven't really tackled that yet. but to answer your your question on the way if you do ever decide to tackle that I know a special ops goats one hundred nations tackled for you okay Eh. I think what the guy need to talk to So yeah the the question on word that whereas the space or what we do A. I always say what we do is we just continue the relationships the dental organization whether it's a solo office group. BSO whatever it is the relationships that they already have in place. We bring efficiency to those relationships And it starts with buying things so it's online it starts with Making sure your whatever the relationship the contract in place is being fulfilled Then we're talking about spend management data making sure the right things being purchased at the right time everytime that's really what does so. So where is this come from when you were in the military were were you in supply chain management or No I did not. I did not wake up saying I want to tackle the dental procurement problem. That was never a thing of the actual problem happened. I was in school so I was getting my executive. Mba Ba at pepperdine university. And in my class there was a classmate of his name was often. He was actually like employee number. Four of implant direct back in the early two thousands and he had been a part of that working with the them the ability to sell directly to the dental office so we met in Business School in two thousand fifteen and he was just telling me that his his company which was a part of Danaher at the time that There's a really big problem. This supply chain primarily around Group practices the ability for them to buy things for multiple vendors. Unforced the contracts Make sure that it's really easy for all their practices by thing have data pay for invoices. All all of that stuff was really chaotic. Lot of wasting money being done in the organizations were asking the suppliers to solve the problem and their suppliers right. They're not technology companies. And so there was this opportunity. And that's where we uncovered it And then you know we spent the first year and a half just asking the right questions right like going to people and asking them this really the problem. What could be bill? That would solve this problem asking both the vendors as well as the organizations right. What are the pain points? And that's kind of where the solution solution came from. And we're at Bowie waited. You use the show. It's your website is cure meant dot. Io and I I o on the domain name is it's the The British Indian Ocean territory. I noticed it. You see it a lot in high tech companies What why did you pick that? Well I oh yes technically. It is the Indian Ocean type of thing. But really we look forward as input outputs. It's the technical term about everything in computers is an input of an action and then an output a result and it really. That's what the means. And that's why you see a lot of technology companies with us. And so. How long has it been out so it was founded in July two thousand seventeen and we released our first? I product to market in October of last year. So we've been on the market for about thirteen months so you've had a one year journey around the sun. How was your first journey around on the Sun With Cure Matt? It's been really good. We've we've learned a lot like I said we. We started out with talking to the top dental support organizations in that exists And then we actually began working at finding a tremendous value proposition. Two group practices with five locations and even solo practitioners. And so we've had a really good customer base that have touched every type of segment. we've learned a lot about what are the things that they care about and stripping away complexity and a lot of features that no one cares. Yeah and just providing them what they need so so what did what did you learn. I I love these podcast. Because you know Dennis Dentistry is fragmented. Most of them are solo practitioners. Or they're driving the work. They totally know their personal framework. But they don't get a C.. Dentistry at thirty thousand feet. You've been looking at the dental supply business from thirty thousand and feet for a long time. What do you see in that? You don't think the individual sees down in their office. I don't think they realized how much I I call it. Fat Or waste occurs in that part of their business. Everybody's so focused on the revenue side of things which makes sense. They look at supply costs and they go. Oh you know on a good day you know. Maybe that's four percent of revenue sometimes. It's eight percent and that's definitely not going to move the needle for me but if you look at it and you think about it all the time that it takes me Stanley. Dental assistants spent a lot of time shopping looking for the right price on all of the knowledge. That's inside of a lead dental systems brain where they get sick or they leave all of that loss. You know so the scale ability or the efficiency of a practice. We've talked to Lee Dental Assistant. Who Tell us the number one thing they ate is ordering things? We've we've worked with our platform where doctors have found that like putting a lot of pressure on one person to make ordering actually is really cool if you can delegate that through multiple people and then only one person approves the orders l.. Actually freeze up on the right people to be at the chair side. And so there's a lot of things with the purchasing process. That isn't just save a couple bucks on a you know composites. It's about you know making sure things are paid on time having analytics about what you're buying make really good business decisions. It really doesn't exist especially in the smaller emerging market. So one thing that I'm that's kind of weird. Is You know you go the Greater New York meeting four years in a row Amazon's got a booth there and so you must be fearless guy. 'cause I'm thinking is starting to company any And I saw Jeff Bezos in the same space. I'd probably run in the corner and go find my pacifier. My quit Is Amazon going to own into space. You obviously went to pepperdine. So you've gotta be sharp. Obviously you had to think going up against Jeff Bezos. How how do you? How do you wrap your mind around that? Well I think the first part came for us is to asking the actual people that would use and pay for what what they thought about Amazon and one one of my examples was they had a We talked to a twenty location practice And they're like yeah we spent. We opened up up Amazon and we ended up spending about forty thousand dollars a month over budget because people were buying vacuum cleaners and all kinds of stuff. And so what you find with Amazon is yes you know what they do really well is put pressure on the supply chain in terms of cost efficiency. Logistics what they do do really well. is making really good user experience. What are the procedures that need to be done at narrowing down a list of products enforcing that the analytics that go with that accounts payable so we look at Amazon is basically an integration into care meant so if you want to buy off of Amazon will integrate our platform with with You want to buy from Amazon will use chairman. You can buy from Amazon. But let's put some control measures in visibility in that before you actually just open up the full marketplace to your practice. It's Kinda interesting that you're doing this and you went to Pepperdine is George Pepperdine. Signed did the same thing but with auto supplies. So you're like an George Junior and you doing it with a dental supplies. It's kind of interesting so so the Amazon has clearly not taken off and When I talked to big dental CEOS Adonis on the show I had the The head of the three M's dental division and I asked him the big question. I said When when are you going to have all this on Amazon on? What's really weird Howard? He says everybody asked me that question except dentists and and the Amazon deal. It's like you know everybody talks about it in the professional dentist but not Not The guys actually coming up a patient and drill in filling I I also think I'm the release of business. I mean. Watch it for thirty. Two years at the supply comes any always brings donuts. He always tells your your old heavy dental assistants. How young gorgeous they look? It's a wining dining fill special. Do you think I'm is that why you're folks. DSO's Aso's because when when somebody calls me and they say. How do you recommend entering into? What is the channel's directors distributors words online? See what what are you recommend. And I said you know. Dennis for chefs evolves cooking a great meal with fancying gradients and throwing salt shakers around and all that stuff goes straight to the Dennis. If it involves a intelligent business decision does and the first thing out of your mouth was. DSO's IOS DSL so Are you finding that. DSO's when it comes to the business a dentistry you have their attention until proven otherwise. Yeah I think there's there's a lot of pressure on them you know. Majority of them are backed by private equity. There's a expectation of return on investment in and margins. But also. I think it's not just about profitability for the DSO space. It's this balance between freedom and control and so they're trying to figure out the ways that provide the freedom like what you just talked about what that individual solo office has but really just educating them on. Hey yes you might like these other items but this is what can happen if you just issues. This particular product if the ability to provide products not force anything but educate and provide analytics about why he shouldn't or it might not be in the best interest has to do something like that in Asia sitting in the best interest for everybody keeps down costs and allows you do take on patients in lower cost for the patient themselves. Because you don't have all these. He's overhead costs that type of thing. So I if you got any any the big. DSO's let you put the name on there. You tell people that you got your account town or anything so we are about a year old so we have significant relationships with the dental support organizations the larger ones But we have some functionalities. We're still working out in relationship with them and the certain vendors so we have about three hundred locations on our platform we do. We have a one large organization and then we have some more of the emerging groups right now on so around five locations and we have a few solo practitioners on the platform as well. So who's who's your large one. Can you say that one. Are you guys familiar with the shellman group. Shulman group. No so so. Tell me about that one. We're we're the showman group showman groups in association That just turned into a dental support. They just changed their business model so they were one hundred twenty entities or organizations inside of that. We're all members of part of the showman group. Are you still filming. Group S. C. H. You L. M. A. N. S. C. H. U. L. L. M. A. N. The group and its dental dental dentistry orthodontics orthodontics. Okay so so so tell me your journey with them. Yeah so I mean it. It really was around My relationship started Through the Arkansas teen workshops getting to know some of the larger eighty pieces so Chris Farina was an executive -secutive director for the eighty S O and he ended up getting hired to run the showman group as they change into. Eso Model and he knew of us and he said we we were great fit to help them get their spending so think of it as a hundred and twenty individual dental owners. And they're coming together to create one organization. And you know they got to get either. They're purchasing in place in all the efficiencies that come with that so curates been helping them. I understand what are they buying. Who are they buying with providing that inside? And then let's how do we figure figure out a way to provide no specific list of products with with vendors that they have strong relationships with without forcing any sort of change but more guiding towards what's awesome with analytics and data so that's that's orthodontic products. So you're seeing orthodontic. Products is switching to more of a dental dental supply company as opposed to an association dental support organization. Sorry that particular one. Yeah they were basically. Let's worked together and create economies of scale work as one versus a lot of different entities. And so I noticed with orthodontist honest finicky bunch. Like if you If you're wrapping you sell orthodontics flies to general dentists and their worth at us. Find out you're gone. They take a different salesforce calling on dentists So that that's did you find any that. I found that the the marketplace of what we had to build for them is unique because there's a lot of products with different variances right so there's the upper left upper right and so the ability to centralize allies all of the things that they buy in one logging no matter who the vendor is and all of the work clothes that go that was a unique Stronger that we can do that we go to regular dentistry things. That's really easy for us and so it was. It was a little bit more complexity than at a general dentist piece but it worked out good for US stab some really strong relationships. Yeah it is a very religious so so there's a lot of technology the on this So kinda give a verbal demo. I mean talk driving their car. What exactly is cure meant? So we break up ecommerce think of it as different modules or or buckets of functionality so the foundation of the whole platform is e commerce so so the ability to buy things and so what we do is we. We shift the idea where you have to learn how to buy things from all your different vendors and what we do news. We established one way to buy things all the vendors. Come to you So that allows you to have one user experience anytime you buy one log in for any vendor. That's the First Foundation Asian part of chairman so get have five different vendors in their multiple manufacturers in. There's One e commerce systems and that's the foundational piece We have a module or bucket called spin management in really what that says. Hey what's the budget for my practice Or multiple practices. Maybe it's based off of my revenue Vinnie when I have this general guideline of what I want to buy. So let's put a budget out there. Make it visible. Let's maybe add approval workflow so things are over budget or if I want a delegate leggate purchasing to other people I can do that so that their spend management piece and then obviously and then we go into data analytics which third bucket So what are we buying on the our historical data where we'll be purchased. What skews are we buying And then we go into predictive data. So what what will I probably buying in the next thirty days based off of my patients that are coming in and obviously having data analytics around like what. I'm the amount of money I'm spending on products. Is that good. What's the industry base benchmark for this US So that's the third module. We also have what we're working on. We're not quite there yet as inventory manager so what is at my practice at any given time. And what should I be buying Is another module here. Then we get into accounts payable so a lot of Solo practitioners. Maybe by the credit card. Bright when they buy something they swipe the card art or other card entered in. But we have something we call like a net thirty agreement so you pay for everything at the end of the month on. How do you manage that? How you see the invoicing? How do you confirm that? What Oh you ordered you actually receive back orders? All that type of stuff is all done inside of our platform one. Stop Shop ECOMMERCE or e procurement. Well you know I. It's kind of funny. Everybody loves transparency for everybody but themselves you know what I mean I mean you know I mean I raised four boys the only time they all went in one room and shut the door. I mean you know you don't have to have an IQ rumor warmer than the North Pole to know. Hey why do they all go in one room to the pricing. It's just not transparently like right now. Under dental supplies on dental town will he posts under Pratt's managed ministrations. What percent discount? Is everyone getting off of the catalog prices retell for dental supplies from signed Patterson Benko I mean I. It's just weird. Why so they have a catalogue price and I'm the only one that doesn't do it in the media business so that the dental magazine business? Here's your in my your your fees and everybody wants to will and dealer might go play with all the others. Here's the ad if you don't Wanna add go I mean I mean I just and also part of it's America like when you go to a lot of countries half the fun. A shopping is bartering. And they just love it. You know the price could I if you walked into any mole and Chandler where you were born or grew up born are Chandler's you're born and grew up there. I mean can you imagine going to the mall and up there. Could you imagine the mall in Chandler. Arizona bartered down. What you're buying you? So so why wire wire prices not transparent white white is a doctor have to ask on downtown what percent everyone is getting off of the catalogue price. The great question. I think you know that would be something that asks the vendors white. Why do they do that? I think a lot of it has to do with. I know we deal with with a lot of things like points right. I by ten things I get one free and this happened to my point and I think it's this idea that hunt of a deal. I think that's where a lot of it comes from but that to me is just just a waste of time and energy and it's a lot of costs for the vendors to manage something like that is a lot of cost and so why don't you just get the best deal every single time and let's make sure that we're buying a certain volume that they can expect and it's cut all the fat of the marketing and this is just create efficiencies so we just get what we need and stuff like that so the answer to why. I think it's just behavior people like the idea of. They feel like they're getting a deal. But you're right. I mean that's one of the things that does really well as all the every every customer has their own price in our platform handles that And you know whatever it is your price that you've negotiated. Our our platform manages that. And that's what people do so. Oh that's part of the thing here. I think it's personally. It's a lot of inefficiencies and waste management so I think part of it also in dentistry is you know you know when you're in a when you're in college I remember one time. The sickest filling I got my life after after a chemistry test. I knew I flunked it. And then when they put the ends up there's forty questions I missed like nine but then after the curve that was an AA so they're always always wondering how they are in relationship to the other guys in their class. So the the the you know they don't WanNa they'll take advantage of Would is and then some of the hurt feelings are like okay. I've been buying from you for twenty years but DSO comes in town five locations locations and he he gets he gets the big deal and So so it's like okay. Dental supplies is maybe twelve. I mean I think stand Bergman is one he told me on this podcast set. Eighteen percent is supplies goes a DSO's and I've had other data points at twelve percent of officer DSO's but man it's like they you get all the good deals hell they. They're not even they're not even twenty percent of the market. So here's the eighty percent owl working boys like me and we're taught me so how do you. How do you wrap your mind around that? I think that's a good point and some of the things that we've dealt with is it's the way that the practice is ran right so when we go with a typical solo practitioner or you know a couple locations. They might have seventeen vendors that they buy from right. They might buy this one thing over here because they love it right and they might buy this other thing over here because they love it in. There's no shopping around and they're doing all of these things you go with. DSO would the way that they work is they say. Here's one hundred seven products. This is what we're going to buy if you WANNA buy off it. That's fine but we can guarantee of volume on these specific products and so now the vendor knows that they're getting this particular type of volume and then there's also efficiencies about being paid on time Accounts Accounts Payable. There's all these other things that decrease costs for the vendors. So that's why they could be creased Martin so and I think that's one of the things that tries to do is. Let's bring this procurement procurement efficiency that the enterprise level organisations get bring it to a solo practitioner. So they can begin to run their supply chain just like the. DSO's do so what's your prediction on Amazon. You think there you think they're going to focus more on big beat AC- markets or. Do you think down the road. They're gonNA get better at these little beata markets dentistry I think Amazon has a lot of poker's in the fire. That's not just around on the marketplace component of their company I feel as if the BBC play for them on this piece. I don't think I still think there's going to always be a play for education. It's more than just products. I feel like we've come across where it's about education In in relationships in this about what to use in questions that they have because you know the end of the day you are biomedical products. Right and there's things here that you have to like know what you're doing in questions wins in the honest. The average buyer in a dental practice practice isn't the most sophisticated buyer were. All they do is buy things right they they have been spent time with patients and so it just unleash Amazon. We can buy anything you want. I think there's a risk and that's why a lot hasn't adapted so I don't see that really ever fully happy maybe the disposables tables and stuff like that but a lot of the market will always be being sold from experts. Where questions in Mitch Focus can be so would percent a dentist? The there's a threat on dental town again. They keep putting all supply thirds under Price Manager says just curious how many of you order your dental supplies yourself and rose tim loop says Are Tommy says I negotiate my own orders next. I says I order myself. Quick when using in recent products page and easy to stay on budget next Guy Laura I order all my own supplies to make a very detailed spreadsheet if it doesn't take too long So what what percent dynasty think ordered their own supplies and is it tend to be like the Real Organiz dentist Laura says she makes a very detailed spreadsheet I only one percent of the planet even knows how to make a detailed excel spreadsheet So wh what are you seeing in the field. What percent of the Dennis or like Laura Making a detailed spreadsheet and what percent on are just not that organize and the rub comes in with donuts and assistant orders. Everything they're out of. I think it's probably about thirty. Thirty to forty percent. Have some sort of spreadsheet of the things that they often by Really thirty need a forty percent when we went through our. Maybe it's the type of customer that comedy Kermit Right. That's probably a skewed a little bit right people who are attracted to what does it probably are a little bit more organized. But we've seen quite a bit where they actually have a list in what we do. Is We make that e commerce system for them now and they you don't have to manage it on spreadsheets anymore. So so you make an ecommerce website form so you have the software she's going in populated and you should go to dental town and do a search for dental supplies. I mean there's a gazillion threads talking about this which is always confused me. 'cause I always thought Manual Labor's twenty five percent your lab bills ten. I don't care my electric bill is I mean wh when it seems like when Dennis or talking can me about supplies those say. What's your labor costs? And then he'll give me number. I'll say it was that include Pfizer matching and helping you know they don't know the numbers and and so so But I what why what do you think is the cost of dental supplies Do you think it's real important dentistry. Middle Important late less important do you think they're focused on labor and lab or argued supplies. I think it all kind of connects. I don't think it's just about the the percentage of dental supplies. I think it's about the culture and the operations of your company. How do you buy something? And what's the process. How much brainpower spent you? You talked about labor costs right if you have one person dedicated to ordering things three times for three hours a week a month on at the doctor's doing it. How much time is? Is that being taken right. And so it's low hanging fruit. So yeah maybe it's not you know the biggest thing on your pl statement but it's low hanging fruit where it's it's very easy to resolve in fix that. What if it was completely off your brain and you knew you were buying the right thing the right time every time and let's say you know every month you're able to get a the report that had the detailed specifics of what you're buying in when then you can make decisions off that? What could you do with that time on other things and so that's kind of where I look at this as? Yeah it's it's not just about decreasing your costs from eight percent to six percent it's about the ability to have began building standard operating procedures around everything in your practice and this is one the thing that's being neglected so you say approximately thirty to forty percent of dentist order their own supplies. And then your concern is was the What was the opportunity cost of their time when they were doing all that and could have been doing other stuff? So I'd say my. The thirty forty percent wasn't wasn't that I thought doctors were actually placing the orders. It was that do they track what they buy spreadsheets. That was what I meant by thirty to forty percent. Thirty to forty percent of dentists. Track actor order supplies with a spreadsheet. What I what we've seen that? Come to Kermit. Yes on an excel spreadsheet yet. They have a list of vendors. What are their username? Your name and passwords about. How do they log in? Who Buys what? WHO's their sales rep? Yeah I am Kinda. I just thought deeper in love with my homeys everyday they'd never cease to amaze me but what percent of the dentist actually ordered their own supplies without a spreadsheet well in terms of doctors who placed orders I would say. I've I've really found anybody who does that. It's usually delegated to like a dental assistant. I haven't found many doctors who actually place the orders themselves else. So the assistant places the order a third about thirty to forty percents so just a third of dentists are tracking on an excel spreadsheet. Damn there so complicated. How how can they track their supplies on? Xl spreadsheet and not even know Their overhead so that's that's very very interesting on this deal It's been a long time net thirty two. I'm still trying to figure out. What is your your unique selling proposition? I think net thirty two's been out there A longtime They were Kinda came about Amazon. Did what what what's your is someone said. What's the difference between you and that thirty two? What would you say? Well first of all net thirty two actually right in the neck of the woods The Raleigh Durham area. So that's small note. So that's thirty two is a marketplace that when you log in we call it a competitive marketplace. You'll find a product of multiple products and skews in in prices. Then you find the best price right. It is not about saving you getting you. The best price will we're about is making sure the ordering process or the actual will act of ordering is. The most efficient thing is possible so what to order. Who Do you want to order it from delegating that and having the data behind it? That's what curious it's about. So if you wanted to buy from net thirty to our platform you would actually be able to build integration where you can access those products but you could actually delegate who does it have with approval processes on what they can buy that type of thing. We're more of an operational tool. Were not necessarily a an a competitive marketplace. That's not what we're about. So are you saying you're agnostic to where you buy the supplies. Correct the customer or the Dental Organization. They dictate hey what's in it. So what vendors what products or maybe. They only want one product from one vendor. That's the only thing that goes environment so the dental organization creates their own ECOMMERCE site. Wow so I always a group. Practice has a lot of challenges because You know dentist test and you know they're all humans are complicated but I- dentist might be a little more complicated than the average. What what do you think you've how would you describe it if you were back with your was your army buddies was an army? Yeah so you're back with your army buddies and they said Hey what what does the dentist like. How would you describe and compare it to your back to your buddies it? I think doctors have a lot on their plate. I think the the the mind switch from taking care of patients and you know that the care part and then switching to business operations in math and in finance and negotiating in the HR in dealing with people in the feelings there and then going back to being clinic. I think ah swap back and forth is very rare. Not many people do that. That's why you see the separation of operations so I I always admire doctors and their ability to do those types the things and so I always call them kind of like Unicorns in a way the ability to to do both of them I think the best one is no things at their best ask. Some of them are better at the business side and and they enjoy that more and they hire more associates. Other ones know that they're not good or not the best part and so they don't So I think that's that's how I feel about. It's always interesting to talk to a particular doctor and see where their areas of joy isn't hopefully if it is on the practice side our platform and take a little bit of the business off so when I was a little boy in Kansas all the pharmacist own their own pharmacy and They were apothecary in Kansas. And you know they had the logo the bowl and then they all got rolled up into walgreens and CVC. You're an outsider just coming into dentistry. Do you saint. That's where dentistry is headed. Where where do you think? It'll be a twenty the next generation twenty years from now Good question I think that's obviously the everyone's everyone's asking that I don't know I think there's challenges that the idea of come across And I think I think there's a balance I dunno now I think the challenges are I think a lot of them. It's the again the balance between the freedom control part right like you're a business you're trying to you. Know decrease costs increased revenue than a person side to vessel. There's the healthcare side and so that balances is challenging In in a way that's good but I think some of the things are going through and also you there's a really big you crusher on growth and a lot of them have grown so fast that it's hard to find the right doctors right. It's about the growth of the industry. And how many practices there aren't so how'd you find the right doctor that wants to work in the middle of Kansas in right and so I think that's a lot of the challenges that the DSO's that sounds like. How do I get the right talent in doctors in in these locations nations? Yeah I just lectured out the There's about one hundred. DSO guys in Scottsdale and I've been lecturing guys forever. They always tell me their biggest challenges Finding a dentist. I mean there Their average Dennis. I mean The usually only work a year So you know the My Gosh when you when you get these. DSO's at five hundred thousand locations on any given day. Ten percent of their offices are down dentists in there and and so and then in group practices causes a lot of. I've seen this. I think this is the natural order thing you know when you have a family. You Know You ebb. Dad Mom you know the family When you have group practice because all the DSO's one group practice because they don't want to have all their eggs in your basket or Howard's basket get and they wouldn't cover more hours? Well then half the staff things. This doctor is the good one and the other half. Think this one and then this doctor He doesn't want to agree. On a bonding agent. Who else because part of his pecking order is ego is that he went and saw Gordon Christian God dentistry and he said this is the best bonding agent and this other guy says now I know John so so then they ended up having different gloves different Bonnie agent and then you'll be at the bar drinking with the dental supply rep for that office they go oh I could cut their supply bill twenty percent by just eliminating duplicate products a bondage glove so how how do you deal with group Br did you find the group practices more challenging? Let me say grew. We're talking about the dental support organizations. No no just two or more doctors in the same room because you know some people have a DDS which means a doctor of dental surgery. You don't know shit about nothing else. And then some of these doctors had the degree doctor of everything and you know are they just. They're not going to negotiate their Bonnie agent or gloves during pry. They always know what's best. And so how do you approach that challenge data you know we just looked through it in the first thing is like. Do you know what you spend. You know what you buy. Do you know who right and the first thing is do you care so the way I approach it is first of all you care and then you look at like. Hey you know if you could save five ten thousand dollars what could you do with that So that's the first part so you care. Then the second part art is like hey just get visibility data on that piece and then bring in. I think we see the information. When you're Yo- yeah? There are four products that are duplicates. And you can make that visible able to them in a very simple and understanding way I think common sense comes apart. Go or I do I really need to do. I think it's I about bringing visibility to. I think that's a really big problem album. In the spaces there isn't visibility people are the ones that are using spreadsheets spreadsheets. You wouldn't WanNa look at those either right. Those are the ones that actually have the data to that. And so I think it's about data visibility on once you see where your money's going back granular level. It becomes pretty encouraging to change it. I'm I'm so. Do you have any dating Serre. Like water the top five or ten categories for supplies of where. Where's the most money I mean to the I? I don't know where they're spending the most money. So so they'd be folks on gloves or birds or in pressuring her. Where do you think the low hanging fruit of where the most waste is? I think the the most waste. It's obviously off to the bigger size products. I don't think disposable during like like that is the biggest thing I think. It's more about the bigger higher price items and like the things that they are high quality not high or lower quality. However you WANNA WANNA on a phrase that I think that's where a lot of the changes in prices but in terms of categories in and? Where's the save money? I think it's just about limiting the amount of things you buy said of having four just have one and then go to the vendor and you say this is what I'm going to buy. This is the volume you can expect from me. And that's where the costs come from. New Gab is big catalog that you're buying from that's where your costs increase. So so what are these. What are these expensive things that you say that you're saying the the the the most fat to be terminent? Downslide seldom comes from disposables symbols. It's these bigger ticket items. What are these bigger ticket items? What are you talking about when I say bigger ticket? I'm saying not gloves right. I'm talking about like yeah burs or Seeing it is burs example non disposable things that I've seen significantly more than a pack. A gloves would be like burs end. Owed onyx type equipment stuff like that. Yeah so what. What is your biggest challenge you? You've been around the sun one time and Congratulations of that. What was the most challenges for the first lap around the sun? I think the big challenge but one of the things that we found really really interesting was when a customer would come to us and they would want to use Carmen and they would say hey. I want to get all my order. History that at all the things I've ever bought in the last twelve months. I want to put into care meant so I can log into into one place. And so we we go out and we we reach out to their vendors on their behalf and we ask for that information and the fact that some vendors would literally tell us you know we're not gonNA give you their pricing or their product was something that was really interesting to me They would straight up told us now. You're not we're not giving the price price to them. And I thought that was an interesting dynamic. That threw me through a loop where it's like. You're not gonNa tell or give the customer the thing that they want to know what their pain so that was my biggest thing. Explain that what what do you mean that you you would put a dentist. Would order on cure meant. Explain it again in detail. Yeah so you might have a particular distributor. Let's say that you work with examples drug names you mean like Benko crack cocaine go a shine. A Darby amid way a distributor along those lines and you buy things for a full year and so he would ask like. Hey Gimme the usually. It's like one hundred seven seven things that you've purchased from this Midway or from Darby or shine right over the last month I want those skews and the price that they pay for it. I'm GONNA putting So that they can log into one place for all of their vendors and order things and the vendor would look at us and say or tell us no. We're not going to give you the price or the products. So the distributors won't give you the day of the purchasing history. Some of them. Some of them will. Oh yeah a lot of of them. Do there's only a couple of that won't and it's very strange. So who are the ones that don't want to put anybody on blast on that one ballots. Dentistry uncensored I know I know man. Yeah so will you lose that earlier that there's a lot of cultural stuff in purchasing. I mean I remember One time I mean like some countries like to barter and some. Don't some think bartering in sultry. I remember one time I walked in this place and for some reason I thought I I needed to The they want me to go on Debate this guy on water. fluoridation and I so I I saw this place and I thought you know I'm going to go. There's I I need to see these suits and the guy looked at me asked me a couple of questions and then he stopped and made me a drink and I said where's the only place I've seen this in Vegas. They give you free alcohol because they want you make and I thought Oh my God cover your wallet. This guy thinks I'm GonNa about to get real stupid so So back to the the employee turnover so when I talked to dentist specifics why did you quit and you know that. DSO and by the way that the employee turnover is the same DSO's at his private practice. You're dealing with the dentist. He didn't go to eight years of college to be your little boy and show up at at eight o'clock and all that stuff and you know I it staff turnovers you know they. They they had a big case on Friday. They're worried about it. And they go in there for their big case Hayes and our assistant quit and they got some temp agent. Girl that Y- they've never met before couldn't pick out of a police lineup and then and then what but when it comes Z.. Years Genre supplies. It's Burs if you told every dentist group practice they can only use five burs. There's ground we gotta agree on fibers. You would probably have a triple murder. Homicide suicide shootout. Because is there artists. Man They they they. I mean if you limited me to fibers. I'd quit. I mean you know I have to have so burs is a very complicated one. Isn't it yeah. I think that's where the Esso's don't limit those thing. They have the ability to make this particular category. There's certain ones in something and it's really about just putting that like hey I I'm an artist and I like these multiple options and then just you explain to them. This is the impact of those options right and then they make the decision. If that's the route they want to go. Then that's the route. They go but making visible. I think that's really what the good the better. DSO's do they don't they don't mandate any of those types of things so so what is the biggest categories in supplies people by yeah dollar amounts like if I ordered ordered a one hundred dollars a year dental supplies what would be the biggest category and in the top three in Dolly. I'd have to pull up the specifics on on that. We haven't really looked at it in terms of the category piece because a lot again a lot of ours orthodontics right now so. There's a lot of Ortho products that would probably make significantly more. But clearly disposables trays tray covers gloves. Cotton balls that type of stuff everybody orders. So that's probably we have a lot of that across all of organizations but clearly the orthodontic products is kind of our biggest thing right now. We're based off of our customer base. So so your first year. In sales sales year having the most luck and market penetration with orthodontics will primarily because we landed a very large customer with over two hundred seventy locations That's primarily. Why and you said that was the showman group? Correct the S. C. H. U. L. A. N.. The group Orthodontics when I the showman group dentistry or just the sellman group. He also my look up as g management That might be changed their name potentially g management Because that other deal was s g manage meant So is that why you have a location out there. And I'm I I notice on your locations That you you have your out there in Durham North Carolina. But you also have a deal in Los Angeles so that was founded in Los Angeles. We actually really moved headquarters out here in May so we're no longer in La. So why why did you do that. Yeah I I just never really wanted to live in Los Angeles to start kind of where my career took me And so we're getting to the point where some significant growth for the company and we wanted to build a team in wanted to build it somewhere else and so we moved to the the research triangle area a lot of really cool talent out here in terms of engineering and computer engineers offer engineers. There's three really cool universities with a lot of young talent and so we wanted to build the company out here okay. So let's see so the announcing a new member owned here. It is right right now. Okay so announcing. A new member owned orthodontic dental support organization and the former more. The former Schulman Woman's Club is just announced that it has reformed as idea so formerly known as S S G management and formerly. SGI organizations independently owned by its members. Each member orthodontists has an equal share in the innovative Elsie. Its members are among the top. Two percent of ORTHODONTIC specialty practice is sites collectively. The A hundred and thirty four s members have two hundred eighty two practice locations with annual revenues of four hundred million dollars. I wonder if they have have a Is it a wonder what their exit strategies. You'd have to ask them their goal. Is they seen all of these individual working by themselves. They would if we came together and worked economies of scale together in in part of that a lot of things right marketing and education occasion in part of its dental supplies themselves and accounts payable in recruiting of different talent. So all of those things coming together. Yeah do you. You think This market and this. I mean you know it goes up it goes down. Eighty was bad Black Monday was eighty seven avenue and the whites. UK Bubble March. Two Thousand Lemans brother was ten years ago You went to pepperdine. Do you think I'm do think were we're at the end of a long expansion bubble again or do you think I'm are you seeing this side dental and for you specifically orthodontics. That seems the be your your strength key area. How the health of this Look to you. The only thing I've seen is that the space is again grew really fast. I and I think there's talent issues in Dr Issues. I think that's the biggest thing so I do see maybe a sloth in potential growth for a little bit but I do think there's this clear proficiencies that aren't haven't been in the space for a while and I think that it's making the right progress there and taking costs out of things. I don't need to be there is it's good for everybody and I think it's going to continue to move that way. I think does dental support. Organizations have Blazed that idea I think it's spreading lean into every type of business model whether your private practice or not and so I continued to continue to see that trend back my earlier feelings about the value. You have done slaves I if I was Bob Braye whose founder and CEO of the Schulman Group I'm I obviously know. He probably had more more attention focused on smiles direct club and their IPO than the cost of his electric bill of these are supplies. You agree or disagree. Yeah I'm sure they did. And that's probably why you know there's an idea of how we work together as a group to compete with all the external factors cures but a part of that is everything you don't just pick certain things to focus I. It's all about the business so you find all of the things and they all add up and so part of it is supply supply costs. Yeah or any other unique challenges because I'm dental town but I also or to town and this will be on the orthodontic or Tha town Have you learned any unique challenges that ordered on us. I have been facing that you've been able to help them with I think in general again. We're a procurement platform so the ordering processes relatively the same in terms of any any type of doctor or dentist straight. So whether it's general dentistry orthodontics ended on the the way the practice gets to supplies they need to fulfil the patient. Needs Is generally the same. And so what. We've learned what the orthodontics is the cross of other customers what we do have general practitioners with seven locations in one location in. He's just having to buy the right thing at the right time and having dad on what's going on versus forty five days later would if I saw it right away. Oh interesting so California You you love California the the CD the California Dental Association just started started on what was their own dental supply deal That was a A big deal. And then the state I'm in Arizona which is right next to it. They just they. They just rolled out their own. What what are what are your thoughts on the dental association's civically the CD does ask people? Why do they think that that's happening right or what? What's the point of that and again the way they're able to get these causes taking the consolidation of people people are GonNa buy in on average four thousand dollars worth of dental products practice? And let's put it into a handful of vendors and therefore we decrease costs so that concept is the same thing that the associate doing. It's taking this idea of seventeen vendors or Brian from inlets centralized coordinated down to one thing and that's where again a lot out of just wasting in and cost is affecting so I think it makes sense. I think everybody should just narrow down what they're doing and be more narrow and specific on things. I think that's what everyone's doing. So if you're all things all people you're you're nothing to no one so I'm so I'm trying to go. They don't supplies water. What are other Challenges that Dennis are happening with their supplies. That you you hear on the street one of the things we found a lot was uh-huh everything being in one staffs head about how things work where to buy who to buy from passwords. That type of thing in in at one of the doctor said if I lost my lead dental assistant at sixty thousand dollars I lose that takes me three four months to get back and so when you look at it and go talk to the lead. That's one of the things they hate doing is the fact that everything's put on them. So what if you could build a platform that took a lot of the ordering out of there and tells them what they need to buy and even potentially automate automates third quarter. So that there's always the things that they need. They can be more with the patient and that's kind of where we found a lot of trouble parts let's take off ordering from them. It's not about the actual pricing of products. But the fact that I have to order things and facts in order phone calls are all that type of slot. It's so so true about long-term staff but what I do is I called the Mack truck so United States have an MBA. I couldn't get into pepperdine so I just went to the local state A issue and they they they always call it the mack truck center they said look I'm Every human eventually dies your time. I'm does run out. And sometimes it runs out by ran over by a mack truck. And when they start looking at the forty to sixty thousand bankruptcies year in the United States they said you know a a lot of businesses. That just ran the cash. So do you have a a line of Credit and an LLC and and you know you just have have to have that for rainy days. You never know what you're going to have a heart attack. I mean I talked to a desk. Who would you say the other day? It was so sad but anyway his His daughter At a really bad disease and long story short he couldn't pull himself together to work for a year but he had a line of credit. He you know he he arrive and And then another thing is what I do on my management team is they have to have a binder that I tell them I said when and when I get the call that you've been t-boned by a mack truck in the intersection on the way to work and you're no longer with us. I want to know where in your cubicle is your binder sure and we'll just say no we don't even care and here's the binder everything no and as you get really high up to managing lorries the president for twenty years. That's three three binders. So so yeah so the so that. That's just a basic deal. Profitable businesses run out of cash. I try to explain cash flow to kids and telescope like this. Let's say that your dental office costs you a dollar a month to run so a dollar month so three months. Be Three dollars. So you do some dentistry on this guy and it costs a dollar. But he doesn't want to pay you for three months. Well you gotTa have three dollars in the bank to pay all your bills for the next three months until you get the three dollars from this guy. So a lot of companies were profitable their account receivables. Were big everything was great. They just ran out of cash. And so that's why you have a line of credit for cash flow problems. These these dentists use the same accounting for thirty years. They never got Statement and cash so Most of what it is and they they look at it. County as something for the irs. For a third party tax collector not managerial economics and And then the other one what you just talked about is the Mack truck deal That's why embezzling embezzling takes place so much I mean they just don't have protocols they just don't have systems. So what advice would you give them. I think too two and it's hard right but I I think it's to start thinking about personally I would look at. What did he do well? And you can pick apart the things that you don't like about them right but look at the way that they run the business and the ability to create a hundred locations to work in unison in some capacity operationally in figure out what can take from that to implement into your practice so you talked about the cash flow right a lot of DSO's have net thirty or net sixty agreements. Why would if you bought your products and you didn't have you pay for them for thirty or sixty days much more? What does that the Wells Fargo plan member when they sell those out? What were those checks called What were those checks? Wells Fargo sold The traveler's checks. Right yeah well. And so so. Grandma would buy one hundred dollars. Traveler's checks next time. She's on vacation but she didn't spend half of it but they'd be in her top drawer for twenty years and Wells Fargo's like right on man thank you for that. So so you're saying the DSO's a lot of them have negotiated net thirty sixty day payments and the vendors actually like that because they get all their payment at one time and it allows them operationally to know when they're getting paid at what time that's all in one place versus all these micro transactions happening and so again it's just this idea of waste in in the space and let's create something. Where for the office? Yeah they get net thirty agreements right. So they don't pay. They have an extra thirty days of cash and then they the vendors know when they're getting paid things but the idea is. How do you manage all of that stuff? And so that's technology comes in and I think that's where a lot of the players when we talk about procurement the average private practice things. You know all right well this is GonNa save me a buck on you know composites. It's not about that it's about. You can talk about the mack truck thing right like how do I create my operating procedure around my practice so that anybody can be plugged in and do it in the second part. Is You know the financial side than the data and the analytics around. What's going on and yeah just because you're one practice in it's not you know fifty eighty percent of your cost but like start treating every part of your business like a business and I think there's a lot of things that come from that so my gosh? I can't believe we went over an hour. Our is there anything that you thought we talk about that. I was too dumb to ask. No you did a really good job on on on the questions. I think the procurement spaces is something. That's relatively Foreign to a lot of people in on top of that if the impact of what it does and I thank thank you last saw a few questions around with the impact of of doing it right right or what is wrong. Look like and what's the impact of that. I think that's the biggest thing we're looking to do. Here is just educate indicate on the impact of what right looks like in the procurement space. Can I ask you a couple of overtime questions. It's dentistry sense right. I like to keep it. I don't don't WanNa talk about anything. Everyone agrees on but I get this question. What what of the young dentists said You? What's the average markup on dental supplies? And that's how they ask. What's the average markup on dental supplies? How would you even approach that answer? I actually asked this question. The other day to a couple manufacturers in the range anywhere from twenty to thirty five percent. So it's twenty and what do you think it is for the individual little small town homeboy versus Hartland with a thousand locations. Some of the numbers got you know. We've talked to people you know the difference for instance about fifty percent. Yeah and and the. The biggest. The biggest news in dental supplies on dental title town for years was the big old class action lawsuit against Shine Patterson Banco Burke eight by slate shore recovery. Whatever any any thoughts on that any any now are those your friends and family? So I mean is is that channel conflict is what I'm saying like. Are you not going to answer that because next time. We're at the bar somebody to say Yeah I heard what you said on. No I mean for us you know. We were just getting started when that all that happened so it was really interesting to us and we just looked at it. It from our perspective were supplier agnostic and we looked at a lot of waste that occurs from both vendors perspective in dental organization. Leary looked to resolve that so the only heard that it was something that was a bystander. Were that's interesting. We didn't quite understand why Because you know if you can get the volume what does it matter if it's a hundred solo offices it's one DSL so that's kind of how we felt about it. I obviously got settled and all of that type of stuff so it was a good what was your takeaway. What if you had to summarize summarize it to some kid I mean you lived all the way through it I mean? How would you summarize what what went down? What I read was that you know they specifically chose not to work with the Solo practitioners in if I were to assume widespread? 'cause there's probably a lot of margin on those those guys versus the DSL margin so they start treating the whole industry like the Esso's and they're gonNA lose a lot of money And so they didn't want that to occur allegedly type bright So it makes sense of what their motivation would be. But that's my opinion is that we don't know what happened. But that's kind of the idea of what they said and then another Another couple things where there's a lot of people assume they have a lot of Extra sure fat and margin and their dental supply deal but they want that relationship because their equipment AIDS at their compressor goes out at. The chair won't recline so it's kind of a peanut peanut butter and Jelly relationship. How do you? How do you coach people using cure matt versus? I need someone to fix my suction. Listen one of the things we've found with kermit and this is what we talked to the vendors. We talked about earlier. That don't give us information. Because they feel like educating the customer Shimmer means that they're gonNA lose margin we tell them as we found at the average. Dental customer doesn't care about price similar to what you just said the biggest thing May Care more about the if something's broken. The service the education the relationships that's the thing that's the most a priority for them and so what I would say with our platform as we continue the relationships you have and we make it more efficient for you to continue those relationships. There's a threat. Ah You gotta go on downtown. Just search by a thread four pages long with one hundred eighty replies. How do you lower your dental supply? Bill mm-hmm so just to be clear. Dental supplies is not lab. But that's kind of confusing because a lot of guys when you look at their numbers cad Cam and they buy all these. I can't Kim blocks and that's under dental supplies. You're like well if you weren't having cad cam that would be coming in lab and now I've noticed with the bigger DSO's so whenever. I'm looking at numbers. Now they're combining Lab and supplies so it's no longer labs AIDS attends vies for to say it just one number now and I think that's going to be a trend because it's kind of murky. What is what is but then got equipment equipment we doing? Our system is as we don't sell anything we allow you to access the stuff that are being sold to you from the vendors and then managing what's being purchased From who what vendor and then any sort of maintenance type of thing. We actually would manage that the financial in the procurement process of getting that done. So where would implants go. Says they say you got to aparent honest and he. He thinks five hundred implants a year. Is that dental supplies. Is that lab. Bob How where do you. Where do you put one hundred dollar implants at? That's a more of accounting general. Ledger question I think it depends on how the practice EXC risk. Everyone a little bit different on that. I looked at that as supply costs. I think all of that is what is what are the supplies. It takes to serve the patient and so- lab in the end supply. Costs would all fall under one. But I do think it's important to math inside of that chart of accounts and that's going to work it helps is like what are the actual things is being purchased. A what are the categories even more granular what are the actual skews that are being purchased right and like. Where is that being having that and we have that granular information than empowers hours you to make decisions on? Do I have six of the same thing. Do I want to buy this thing from somebody else right. That type of stuff hot nuts. That's that's interesting and then just a couple of questions. You talked a lot about Amazon. WHAT ABOUT E bay? You always hear. Don't sign by Ebay. Is That A. Is that a deal. It was a big deal so we have people right now that we have a thing we call external ordering so people order off of Ebay right now and what they do is they send us a snapshot of the Order Order. We put that inside of it and so they still have the analytics of what are they buying contract the receipt of that product. All in one place in so whether it's Ebay or Amazon it doesn't really really matter what the product is It's just going to do now. The question is how much time did you spend going to Ebay versus somewhere else right. And so the visibility ability of that data will be there. You could look at it later and go. Hey you bought these things off of Ebay and you saved a buck for item. was that worth the time it took you to log into a full their platform right and then you have the information to make those decisions. Same question with Alibaba. It's the same same concept it doesn't matter but Are you seeing Alibaba. I've never seen Alibaba but you see bay yet. Okay well again. Thanks for serving. Why did not and that is amazing? I'm so excited that you're doing this. I hope you Crush out of the ballpark dentistry. Three is changing so fast. And I I just think you got a winning deal and Thank you so much for coming on the show and please please go to dental town and surgical supplies they. They'd love to hear from you and be because the end of the day. Do you think my homies WanNa go. To course on how to do bone graft and place an implant implant or save fifty percent gauze question. I their hearts hearts not in the business. I mean I've known these guys. For three decades seconds they ran their chefs man. They WANNA cook they. It's all with their hands. They're in. They're working with their hands all day long doing surgery. I mean when I work at the the office and someone comes in and they're in severe pain. I mean I feel like Superman and I can fix that. That's what I want to figure out if I said solar powered electronically I didn't you know what I mean. So so go in there and help those guys do a search for dental supplies and share your knowledge and and it'll be good carmen man. I'm sure you'll get Reward back with customers absolutely love to chat with anybody and figure out how we can help. How how do they contact you? Go to our website so caraman dot. Io and you can go ahead and just we have like a contact former requests the demo we can talk about system or you could go ahead and email me my emails branding I don I. I apologize that When you set when I looked up and said Durham Durham? He forgot the Rowley. And then I was. I can't believe I've made to fifty seven others. Durham Raleigh Durham. But they're both in that Triangle Research Park you think of it as like Mesa and and Chandler it's the same concept Durham in Raleigh or right next to each other. All right buddy. Will you have a great day and thanks for coming on the show. Absolutely thing Howard Mike.

Amazon Dennis Dentistry Dental Organization American Dental Association As CEO and Co founder Jeff Bezos Shadow Patterson Lee Dental Assistant pepperdine university George Pepperdine executive CEO and Co Howard Brandon McCarthy Los Angeles Cure Mint
The Entrepreneurs - Neighborhood Goods

Monocle 24: The Entrepreneurs

30:20 min | 2 weeks ago

The Entrepreneurs - Neighborhood Goods

"You're listening to the entrepreneurs with me Daniel Bauge this week, a breath of fresh air for retail as we turn our attention to the United States and a unique offering in a sector that certainly need some inspiration and innovative thinking. Matt Alexander is the CEO and Co founder of neighborhood goods. A brand billed as eight modern approach to the department. Store. The company is based in Texas where they opened their first outpost in the city of Plano in late two, thousand eighteen and in just two years they've also opened locations in Chelsea in new. York, city and in Austin. Texas. Neighborhood goods is about both discovery and experience they showcase an ever changing range of brands in a way that's ideal for both shop and designer for smaller brands. It gives them a space to present a carefully curated selection of their range in a physical space and for neighborhood goods, it offers their customers an ever evolving space to learn about new and interesting companies. Networking through live events in their space and food and drink also part of the experience with in-house restaurant and bar concepts called Prim and proper and tiny feast. During lockdown in the past few months, Matt and the team turned their attention to finding a new way to tell stories and to give a boost to the brands they work with they launched something called the comments, a free platform they curate where designers, artists and musicians, and brands, and food and drink homewares and fashion can engage with customers. It's like an online community hub for storytelling. To. Hear the full story of neighborhood goods I called up Matt who spoke to me from Dallas Yes Oh, born and raised in the UK my mom's American. My Dad's English. So Jewison ended up coming here for university a few years our sausage one company which was acquired back in two thousand sixteen, relatively small sort of projects. But while I was sort of developing that particular was a not for profit initiative called unbranded, which side back in two thousand fourteen thereabouts where we created a platform to provide free retail and event space to independent entrepreneurs, office chefs, things of that nature every holiday season for. The most part, and so we did it here in Dallas, and it was really just born of a desire to sort of experiment more in the physical space between myself and Brian Deluca who is running a company called foot caught. Again at the time, we did that just as a slash experiment, this sort of idea to opening sort of within three or four weeks, and at the time no one really knew a puff ups were here in otherwise and so we sort of ran along with this notion of. Hey, if you create a relevant sort of community centric of concept, it can be really sort of exciting consumer it can be really meaningful. Entrepreneurs brands otherwise, and so we did it in relatively unorthodox well in an unorthodox area for the first time, and it was taken on by a local nonprofit downtown Dallas saying works very closely with the city and they've done it every sense and it's become as really meaningful thing for people to sort of tap into those communities built around their brands regardless of this size, and so what was interesting was that we opened up applications and had brands come in from all over the country when we first launched it and we just did it for free there was never any intention to make money from it but over the years suddenly got a lot more attention than anything else I've been. Working on for the most part and so back in early twenty seventeen I was approached by cool mock Maslenitsa. Prominent in the retail real estate space and he had sort of been aware of me for my company. But in particular for branded for a few years and reached out and said, you know he was working on the development in Plano. Texas just north of Dallas and they were developing a food hall at one end of it and he was feeling that they needed to be something similar spiritually at the opposite end. Of the development sort of bookend there, and he was interested in seeing if there was a permanent version of unbranded that might be able to come into existence at the development, and so we map for lunch and ended up for hours and he just felt strongly that something in that space needed to exist I sort of felt strongly that there was a slightly different way of doing it. We've been doing with unbranded. Its integrity and strength was doing something very much for free for smaller brands. But I felt that there was something more robust and potentially profitable that could be developed at scale for all sorts of different brands in all sorts of different areas and so that became the basis for the idea and so Marcus Fan base here in Dallas they've done a lot of the retail real estate for. Pretty much every apple store setting in the US will be Tesla many others that they've worked with over the years and so just really Sudafed tastic group and so. It became this really nice little partnership where he felt strongly, there was an opportunity and just wanted to help facilitate coming into existence and I'd had some experience there. Felt strongly about where we go with it, and so we started running along with this idea of developing would I decided to describe as being a new type of department? So just inasmuch, as I wanted to find a really succinct way of trying to set expectations for what the experience was because as soon as you start invoking what's like pop ups, people, pictures of. More temporary sort of slightly lesser sort of interpretations given brand retail experience selling that was the case at the time. It's become quite different these days and I've running along with that concept and I think the company was incorporated in August twenty seventeen or thereabouts and I ran along as the only employee until July twenty eighteen or thereabouts the building it out and then we. Opened up the kitchen in November twenty, eight thousand and we've gone a from there. You've got a couple of other locations I'd love to come onto obviously that plays into our current situation in the pandemic and how things are going there. But just to sort of continue on the story line, it'd be interesting to hear a little bit about the actual space and how. You've used that to sort of boost brands. It's interesting. You say how you came into this and how you were sort of there to help grow brands and get them some attention. But essentially now you've become a stock is curator for different people. They've brands that people will recognize, of course, but talk to me a little bit about how that works in a physical space. Yeah. So the department store analogy is good to an extent, but it's relatively inaccurate but in terms of where it is accurate, it's you know what creating fixed physical spaces it's our staff it's our static. It's our fixtures we are in restaurants inside the spaces, and so you go into one cohesive consistent experience that speaks to most major product cash worries but beyond that, the space is typically much smaller than a traditional department store. So auspices a typically hovering on average around ten thousand square feet. Whereas, a traditional diplomacy would be sort of one hundred thousand and we don't stock just anyone and everyone it's much more selective, and then each locations feature a different mix of brands and products within some of those brands that do overlap between multiple locations to befit the given market in which we are a pot. So we want them to be above all else trading in. A currency of relevance where we can be really focused on the given area and so initially the core of basis for the idea beyond the notion of creating more sort of communal retail where you could sort of help brands do pop ups without having to stop them build them. Themselves was this recognition that customer acquisition cost online has been going progressively upward over the years says. More brands have come to the table. They've been able to raise capital in the all pursuing the same demographic of customers, and so is becoming much more expensive, and then meanwhile because there's so much more competition in this space, it's becoming much more difficult for them to maintain loyalty of customers and so physical retail was seen as a solution inasmuch as it allows me to. Be to sort of passively present in a location that might be within a certain proximity of your ideal of consumer, and so they tend to have a little bit more loyalty to you and they tend to be less expensive to maintain and or acquire in the first place and so physical retail for a Lotta. These digital brands stop to make a huge amount of sense but. As we will know physical retails expensive and cumbersome, and it's very traditional industry and people don't want to sign ten year leases and sort of deal with negotiating various different sort of lease structures and otherwise, and so the notion of lowering the barrier to entry made a lot of sense. Hosting pop-ups, but they would spend hundreds of thousands to do them for a very short period of time and not necessarily generate that much return, just the brand equity of the thing and so the notion of creating something that could lower the barrier entry both in terms of the operational aspects and the financial aspects, as well as creating something that could be elevating in terms of the curation and mix. Really resonated with people whether they were invested. So brands, and so we set out with the intention. So all I in Plano, Texas about fourteen thousand feet we put a restaurant, Ryan, the middle, and then we sort of designed to grid into the space where we assumed to have ten to fifteen brands they'd have anywhere from one hundred to five hundred square feet and it'd be predominantly this direct consumer crowd. What we ended up with when we launch was about twenty, five to thirty brands. And it spanned from you know some of those high growth upstarts too much more traditional brands as well, and so we launched with stadium good spock Mason Hymns, and drape James, an number of others, and we sort of picked a lot of different boxes for people and it just did really well from the beginning and clearly really resonated with people we go wrong and had to sue to find a way from there but we quickly found was that the presumption that brands needed. One hundred to five, hundred, twenty. It was quite wrong and we also discovered that it wasn't just direct consumer digitally native brands that would want this sort of thing, and so now we have three locations and we can get into sort of more the strategy and thought there but. Know, we now work with brands like ace off of east officials say entire wealth little lean. We've brought in brands to do their I ever physical. We do a lot with brands like Taj. We've brought brands from Europe to the US for the first time, and we also says the platform increasingly for brands that have been heavily affected by covert and just trying to get off the ground and so. The marlins story being the. Neighborhood kids it's a little different things to a lot of different people but to the consumer, the core experiences what feels very edited and very relevant sort of almost boutique like experience that just happens to change quite frequently with brands you would otherwise not find in physical retail and you know we're online and we have lots of other bits and pieces as well but it's always been for us this balance of the art and science of the industry, and the odd is the thing that we would prefer to be known for, and that's certainly what we hope. You experience when you come in. That's really interesting because the way you started to explain it there. It sounded like you have a bunch of brands that would be direct to consumer and have an online retail only presence, and then go through you obviously to get a little bit of that physical footprint sounds like a great trade off. But it it's much more than that. I think in the way that you're talking about how you choose to work with these different brands and what you've done actually through corona virus think is a further extension of that. Tell me about the comments because that's sort of goes back to where you started right another way to sort of boost brands. Yes. The Commons is it's it's essentially unbranded the you know the basis for. The school concept where we on March Fourteenth Kloesel three of US tools to sort of get ahead of the world scientists are full of a little bit and to do right by our teams and so on and so forth and within a few weeks of that, we had been doing everything we could to sort of overhaul our website which had been active. We've had an APP and we've always been online and shop there. But obviously with that being the focus for an indefinite amount of time, we really doubled down but we really sad to think about how could this be a big opportunity for us as a company that you know both thinking about. COVID. Sort of serving as an accelerated for a lot of what was already happening in the retail industry in general. So in the US we've seen a lot of larger department stores gun to bankruptcy and many a stumbling and those been brands have been stumbling, and these are the things that were happening already, and we're going to happen at some point in the next twenty, four months regardless, and so it's just moved it a lot faster, and so we started to look at that and the meals decide to look at the. Prevailing, full that you know the pandemic isn't going anyway we can get better about how to live with it and the best sort of day to day etiquette to preserve safety and be more thoughtful about it but it's not going anywhere for the foreseeable future, and so we started to think about a how we can take advantage of the situation to sort of build some momentum around concepts in particular take on the industry where a lot of traditional brands that rely quite heavily on department stores and wholesale might be sort of a little bit disillusioned by those partnerships where landlords might be looking at more sort of nuanced. And more progressive models that sort of a little bit differently, and then where consumers might be a little bit more thoughtful about why they're leaving the house in the first place what is the magnetism reason for them to go into shopping development? In the first place we're into a shop in general and so you know for us we had always recognized that we're not going to be a great vehicle for the utility of buying something really reliably with much more experts in discovery and experts is generous and so it's much more that you wanna come in to find something new to touch and feel something you've seen online. To release it of come to have a little bit more of a relationship and you don't have to shop right then and there but it's more about that sort of feeling discovering that feeling of relevance and so we started to think about how can we stop really focusing on that in this time like brands beyond going to be signing leases, others are going to be really struggling how can we bring people together in a way that can be supportive of our respective communities, and so we had this idea for the comments that allowed autism something really positive to align around to build woods and for a spaces to. Become really important aspects of utility for them as we reopen and said, the basics is that we decided to provide free space to brands that had lost meaningful sales in performance during the pandemic, and so that's brands that may have lost. Bake wholesale would is it's brands that might be much younger and didn't have much in the way of advertising budget or a growth plan but a really great products and it was just completely kosh off when they lost their supply chain or they lost their core customer, which might have been a smaller base than others, and so we decided to look at. All right. Well, how do we? Be Supportive of these brands. How do we bring them into these different spaces? So it can speak to these respective communities and how can we take beyond just three aspects of we have restaurants in each of US bases how can we open up the kitchens to support restaurants as the May have lost their spaces? How can we open it up to musicians? How can we jobs assists and so we just opened up applications and so it went from idea to active on our site in receiving applications within a week and We've launched it in all locations since we reopened it reopened in Texas June we with about fifteen brands in each baller that and. Basically. A month at a time with a different sort of class. Oh, cohort of these brands and increasing over time as we get more of Alexis in this environment. So our second class lunch with twenty eight brands and it's expanded to New York since we reopened there and the intention is to run it for at a minimum as long as we will closed which in Texas. was just under ninety days and. New York probably close to one hundred twenty, and so you know we're GonNa see what we can do to be supportive and we found it to be very of productive and really interesting Safai customers have really taken to these brands. We've seen a lot of the brands that we're in office class asked to remain with us as more sort of in a more traditional relationship, and so we see it as. Something that we can continue to sort of try to support in the future and sort of try to be you know a meaningful asset for some of these brands that are trying to get back on. Well. That's interesting. I wanted to ask you about how that works sort of moving forward because it sounds like the model that you had created before all this pandemic and before people weren't able to physically come in and discover brands was sort of a way to combat the decline of retail that you set out a different way to discover brands. So talk to me about how that is changed your thinking. Now as you reopen these stores and you've got a brand new one in Austin as well, they've just opened. So a couple of months ago. So how does that play into? The next couple of months in the next year and moving forward. Yeah. So the core it in brief is that we charge brands typically a fixed fee to be in the stores per month some brands, they just pay a fee and they make one hundred, seven of what they sell others pay less. Effendi. We take a percentage of sales and that remains the case with the Commons we just take a tiny tiny percentage of sales. So what would normally be more significant with balanced amount? That's relatively distinct basis from one brand to the next with these brands Molik like us taking five percent. Ole, Asan charging nothing else. So it covers a bad minimum of our expenses but funnels the vast majority of new right to the brands and so. The the core voters in recognition of the fact that you know as we discussed earlier that. Brando necessarily want to be in physical retail or inside neighboring goods just sales you know for some of them, it's about marketing customer acquisition others is about assessing newmarket ahead of a more robust expansion and opening of their own stool perhaps in one of those areas for it's about product testing for some it's about Brandon. Jason's the very traditional right and so the model we have is essentially consignment from a product perspective so Brand. Ships. Relatively small amount of product. On, which we then sell and we remit payment back to the brand net of fees or otherwise on a regular basis, and that way if they are running a big promotion on their own sites or otherwise, they can just quickly get the product back for US quickly sending out, we can bring it back in, but it reduces the sort of general tension around having to run. Sales and it means that we can be just very nimble in terms of Russell men, and then the brand looked into any times with us. So if they want to leave ahead of schedule, they can just sort of let us know we'll find a way out if they want to extend can do that as well, and so it's just a very, very fluid and sort of. Simple relationship, and then we provide now or about to stop providing real time data to them as well. So they get real time traffic demographics, sales, and otherwise. It becomes a very sort of. Active new sales and sort of Dacia channel for them to release of learn a lot more and so that model remains very much the same. It's very relevant in this environment where it's more efficient and profitable than wholesale for the brands. It also means that there's no tension around discounting their products which would undercut their integrity is a brand. It also means that for us, we're not burdened with a huge amount of product in real trouble there. And so it just walks in a much more holistic way. The one thing that we're really sort of shifting around is that in two thousand nineteen, we worked with over one hundred brands just over one hundred brands throughout the year, and for the most part of that year, we really just had one location with Neo carpeting ride the end we ended the with just under ninety of them still active with us, which is not how the model was. Meant to work at all where we were expecting much more sort of brands to be with us. You know three months to six months average and we ended up with them becoming much more sort of loyal to the ecosystem than we would have anticipated, and that's not to say that hasn't been changed but we've also seen brands leave and then come back in a different format will move to a different location and otherwise, and so what we? Sort of started to adapt around us. This idea that the stores can have a little bit more in terms of brands in each location, which accordingly reduces the amount of fee that they would have to spend to be in the space, and we can have a more edited assortment within each of those brands. It's also yielding really interesting conversations around collaborations, but between the brands themselves inside, I'll wolves biddle between us and the brand. So we rolled out. That label back in December which was really well received and has taken on a life of its own assigned to do a lot of collaborations and exclusives, and then you know between our brands, we start to notice passions and in the data that otherwise wouldn't be intuitively obvious to the branch where you can find a link between kids, products and A. Street wet brand frogman sake where you can see young parents essentially buying a pair of yeezy is and then buying a onesie on the other side of the room which opens up a lot of interesting opportunity for collaboration that would have otherwise been obvious or intrusive, and so you know where we head from the model remains very much the same his just. In this environment, right? The paradox of things is that the basis for us to exist as the customer acquisition cost was going. So significantly up online right now it's lower than ever, and so hypothetically, brands could run really advertising campaigns and find real growth for at least the foreseeable future until the economy rebounds. But the trouble is that most of them are really sort of tight budgets and appetizing often. The first thing to go, and so the not advertising huge amount right now, and they're certainly not signing leases and so if we can lower that barrier entry and become efficient customer acquisition channel as well as looking things like same day local delivery and really critical markets and instal pickup generally sort of aligning them with really sort of positive uplifting brands it has a lot of. People, and so what just wanting to lean into that, and that's not to say that we want to sort of flood us those with products brands. It's very much sort of where we are right now is sort of about fifty to sixty brands in occasion and fluctuates upward and downward from there. So we're remained roughly that, but it's just more that we can start dabbling more with you know brands that I've mentioned like ace up in balance with younger brands like dollarshaveclub that are getting into physical for the first time, and so we can solve. Play a little bit more with that balance with some of these lodging names that might be doing very well in this environment can subsidize brands that might come into the comments or otherwise, and so we're trying to build this balanced ecosystem around a little bit and see what we can do to sort of in as much as we can take advantage of the situation. Sounds like might be getting a few emails and calls from smaller brands that are chasing stocks right now to pay invoices, your model might be slightly more appealing talked about a little bit about what you're thinking about these days. This week is obviously there's so much uncertainty on you know how many people you'll be able to get actually out to physical locations obviously, you've got the name neighborhood goods it's about community it's about getting people together. So what are you thinking about it in those terms? I mean it's as you mentioned, we had just opened that location and Austin. We opened it. It was open for less than twenty four hours before we close all of us tools and one of the last things we did to get ready to open. was put up a bio about what neighbor gets is on the wool at one of the entrances and it talks about being a place for the where people can gather, and of course, that's not what we wanted to happen at the moment and you know the the basis for us to close at the time was that. We were seeing the day just like everyone else that morning. So we mental launch on March thirteenth, which we did, which was meant to the first day of South by Southwest Austin it was cancelled obviously, and we had a lot of events in the pipeline with groups like so house and number of others who gearing up seven the festive occasion in Texas and we had lots in the pipeline for that week and obviously. We'd Sir scaled back scaled back and the marketing it's become basically sort of just an acknowledgement that we would that but no real Oscar fee to show up. I. Don't even think we sent an email on the day, but nonetheless, we still seeing quite meaningful sales in you and Plano. Meanwhile, we saw quite a few people show up in Austin and start shopping just will Ganley even though we had done very little and That would be a great sign that we for retailer that things are just But in this environment, it's much more consenting, and so we decided to close and you know in the aftermath you know we made a cool. So we had to ultimately do some feathers layoffs and pay reductions and cuts, and so we've certainly not been sped some of the negative things that come with this and obviously now with facing many many many difficult questions as we look ahead, just purely of uncertainty. Is A huge amount coming up in the US and the full that sort of makes for a very uncertain time between the pandemic and the election at myriad of topics right and so for us. What we're trying to do is just sort of be good. Citizens, right. So we closed very promptly when things go west in, we got a lot of Kudos from brands that we didn't change any of our brands while we were closed and you know in the time since we've reopened, we expected to lose a lot more brands and we didn't we kept all of them and then we added a lot more through the comments and then a lot of our big brands announcing of extending with us and what we found in Texas so far is low traffic but very high conversion rate, and so the stores are sort of drastically outperforming what we would have expected, but still further to go. New York. We just Ryokans if it's too soon to tell, but you know the moral of the story is the open. We've kept the restaurants mostly closed so that we can sort of maintained an environment in which moss can be one hundred percent of the time. And are required to be amongst all sorts of other health and safety mechanisms. And that's really all we can do. It seems that the sort of current conversation is focused on environments where you cannot wear mosque one, hundred percent at the time. So various entertainment restaurants, concerts, things like that. Our environment seems to be on the spectrum of risk relatively lower, but certainly not without risk and so trying to be as thoughtful and courses we can be but you where we are psychologically is absolutely prepared to close again if we have to and the expectation is that it'd be less of closing all three and mole closing sort of one or two selectively at any given time. We saw digital side of our business grow radically while we will closed and it's maintained its momentum sense and so. The ecosystem is working as it should, and this aspect of local districts for these brands become an unexpected aspect of. Real value is typical conversation. and. So where we are now. is is sort of a feeling of cautious optimism I think was seeing cases declining in Texas after sort of rising for a bit. In. New. York reopen the stores are doing better than expected and our brands largely sticking with us and doing really interesting things and pipeline is really full of them with some really interesting brands that we would have never expected to hear from before. So further foreseeable future. was sort of looking at things sort of a very day by day. No, it could be one day that things take a real time we have to make really tough cools again but otherwise, you know sort of continuing to move forward on the basis where we're sort of looking at what we can do opportunistically in this sort of environment and so was stalking increasingly to think less about playing defense in what can we do more in terms of? More of an offensive action as we go into Nexia where. You know many people are going to be signing leases at the moment. So maybe we should be thinking about signing some more Lisa's taking advantage of the current climate so that as treatment and vaccine becomes a little bit more of a reality whenever that may be, we might have more of a footprint that's relevant for brands in areas that still relevant regardless of the current state of climate, and so we're very much looking at. More. Expansion right now with some doubling down a more of a private label which has been doing so well and just continuing to focus on what more we can do in Hans the positives in each locations in diminish the negatives and so fortunately right now it's mostly positive but as I say I mean for us and many many many others the big questions but you know we by complete fluke by no design we we had. Raised around the capital in the last year, which puts us in a good sort of long-term position as long as we are good stewards of that capital and continue to focus on more classic ideas of business profitability and sustainability in as much as we can and so that's where we find ourselves. It's sort of it changes by the day increasingly just I would tell you as of just the past few days now that all. Of this was our open digital continues to perform. Well, we find ourselves very much in a position where we're not ignoring the realities which are very consenting socio economically speaking and in terms of the just general health climates looking ahead but was signed to look at things and so forth trying to think more about what our role is on the other side of all of this and how we can really start to build towards that. Exciting. Just the same way we needed the comments at something for team to align around during a very free time instead of March April now assigned to look not at such a short period but now looking sixty nine twelve months ahead and. We will spending on time doing and really focusing on beyond the obvious in terms of trying to do well by brands and so. That's roughly where we fall. I. Mean. It's a very sort of you could read it a lot of different ways but I mean I would tell you it's cautiously optimistic than anything else. Well very well said and I do enjoy your optimism Matt and Offensive Strategy I. Do hope it works out well for you and I appreciate your time. This has been really interesting. Thank you so much. M- Alexander their. CEO and Co founder of neighborhood goods speaking to me from Texas. Thanks to Matt You can learn more at neighborhood goods, DOT com. That's all for this week. My thanks as well to Christie Evans who mixed an edited this show on Daniel Beach so much for listening goodbye.

Texas United States Austin Plano Dallas Matt Alexander York New York Jewison Daniel Bauge UK marlins Europe CEO and Co Brian Deluca Chelsea
Dr. Sophia Yen

Two Broads Talking Politics

25:03 min | 10 months ago

Dr. Sophia Yen

"Hi this is teddy in your will to Dr Sophia yet onto rods talking politics Eh Woah. Everyone this is Kelly to broaden talking politics which is part of the cast family of podcast and I am on with my co-host Sophie. Hey Sophie Hey Kelly and joining us. Today is Dr Sophia Yen. She is the CEO and Co founder of Pandya Health and also a clinical associate professor at Stanford heard. Hello Dr Yan. Hello and thank you for having me. Yes so we are excited to talk to you so maybe just to sort of frame the conversation if you could tell us a little bit about you and how you came to be founding and CEO of Pandya Health. Yeah so. I am a pediatrician. That specialize in teenagers so I did double the years of training just to specialize than what we call sex drugs rock and roll a little sports medicine in some acne and being a academic clinical associate professor at Stanford Hanford. I had to pick an area to choose but just my passion has always been women's rights reproductive rights and specifically birth control preventing unplanned pregnancy. The preventing sexually transmitted infections and more recently minute passion is. I'm all about hashtags has had a period optional and and letting anyone who bleeding one week out of four no that that is optional and we now have the technology turn that off and how much better would like be without without random blood one week out of four hitting you in random places at random times love it and How kings have become the CEO and Co founder of the only woman founded women lead? Dr Founded Dr Lead Birth Control troll delivery Company was I was giving a talk much doctors. Why don't those Pesky women and their birth control and one of the top reasons glove? We didn't have time to run to the pharmacy. Go get it and my friend and I were like. It's two women. We all saw this. We will ship it to him in and keep shipping it to them until hill. They tell us to stop. And then when we ran ads for free birth control delivery sixty percent of the women. That responded didn't have a prescription either expired fired or they never had one to begin with and I'm a doctor. I can write prescriptions so we added in a synchronous telemedicine where you just a lot of questionnaire. Same questions I'd ask you to came into my office. You know what medical problems you have given your blood clotting disorders with drugs have you tried like you know etcetera etcetera and Mana and Self reported blood pressure Selfie a government. Id to prove that you are who you are and then our doctor looked at it. If it looks good we write the prescription billet Tier Insurance and pharmacies and to your door set it and forget it what happened. Yeah health worries. And you don't have to so doing that. Because it's kind of culmination of my life's work. Is You know helping women make their lives better. So what type of control are available with Pandya health. Yeah so the beauty of Penny health is that we are a pharmacy so we carry all the birth control pills patches and ring. There's pretty much nothing that we don't carry. There may be a specific generic bran that we don't carry because our pharmacy doesn't have that contract. But I would say ninety nine point nine nine nine percent. We've got you covered. And we take all insurance except for Kaiser and we're working on Medicaid in different states cause some states deep have one medicaid for the whole state. So that's easy contract. But if they have is a California a different Medicaid for every single county then you have to deal with like fifty different counties and we are all about access so we want to get those medicaid contracts so we basically are services free if you have on an existing prescription at a pharmacy. You just tell us where that and we move it from that pharmacy to our pharmacy. We bill your insurance ship it to your door and then we also conclude a goody every month so sometimes it's height you very popular and now it's gotten colder. We're GONNA be chocolate which I'm excited about Gear Delis it's peppermint Bark as well as sea salt caramel and mint and then We also Provide information from other female founded founded female lead companies Were sending out some makeup By I think it's pocket pals. Forgive me forgetting the name wrong but it's you put it in your person so if you're an emergency emergency needed a little lipstick or Mascara or some rouge. It's already in there in this little pocket pal. I believe we've also given out. Feminist pins condemed Wyndhams a free subscription amid magazine a discount off of my friends vibrator the most Internet of things vibrator if you WANNA check that out lioness I mean company uh-huh so and all that is free The only thing you have to pay for is if you do need a doctor's appointment we absolutely prefer you use your doctor or your provider but if is not we WANNA make sure women have access and so in California and Florida and soon to be Texas and soon other states as soon as we get that going. It's twenty nine dollars once a year. Air To use our doctors reliability legal and all that and you have accessed relearn sixty four days to our passionate excited academics. And so as I'm listening to you say that this is all about making things easier for women I am struck by how many of the reproductive laws that we are seeing being passed around the country are seemingly designed to make life harder for women to make things Accessing healthcare harder to make things like making personal autonomous choices harder. What are ways that we could be? Better advocating four four laws. The that do exactly what you're talking about that make access to things easier instead of harder. That puts choices and decisions back in the hands of women doctors. Instead of lawmakers I think with the current administration and the current people that are in power in the Senate. It is dark times for anybody with a uterus and I don't understand the Republican Party when they say they want small government. They want to get into your bedroom into your uterus My favorite frayed my uterus my choice nor uterus your choice and this country it is about freedom of religion and even amongst the same religion Catholics for choice. They believe that you listen to your conscience and your connection with God what is through your conscience and what God wants you to do with your uterus And not from some outside force telling you what to do so I I love that attitude attitude and I love the diversity that this country represents and I don't think one religion should be pushing a view on another religion and I think that reproductive rights needs to be seen and as bodily autonomy and freedom of religion as equality. I if I'm not here to be your breathing cow how you know and if somebody rapes me that doesn't give him the right to my body and to grow whatever he wants to grow inside my body my body my choice oyster your body your choice so What our company does is unfortunately needed? I would love a world where our company isn't needed it though not for our investors but just that everyone had access all the time but we also bring birth control to wherever you have Internet in the mailbox. So it's about care convenience and more importantly confidentiality so you can't be slut shamed so that you have access people who live two hours away from the nearest clinic. Two hours away from the nearest pharmacy. People who worked two jobs and don't have time to run to the silly pharmacy. Go get their medication or even in Liberal California where I'm located gated you walk in the pharmacy. Your comes in after sees you there and then the Pharmacists Sophia your birth control and then your boss knows and and then everyone else behind. You knows nosy. Nancy then tells your entire village you know so I think this is the future for Medicine and from the policy side. What would help us is to One for the public. I don't think they realize this has come up. A Lot. Is these p. b. m.'s. Pharmacy benefits managers. If you guys haven't covered this before They are a monopoly and they control the mail order and brick and mortar pharmacies overseas. And they're squeezing out any possible new innovation competition but also the Independent Pharmacy They make people signed contracts that that make them lose money. which is crazy? Talk though when you signed a contract with CVS or care mark or something like that and you're a small independent pharmacy. They'll give you wolf. Oh for this drug. We'll give you ten dollars for this drug. We'll give you five dollars and some of them. You make money but some of them you lose money and I'm like how can they force they don't force worship take it or leave it but how can they even give you a contract wherein you lose money and and that's that's the sad part. We're seeing a ton of independent pharmacies. Die Why because of these monopolies and the government is not aware of them and I was on a call with the newest youngest congressman. And he's out there to reform reform pharmacy and he didn't know about pharmacy benefit managers and I was like. Oh please educate yourself and get people who know stuff right. So that's the other small matter. Week is telemedicine laws. So the question is what is defined telemedicine who is allowed to do Telemedicine tele-medicine and interstate licensing or physicians. So we answered this to take a national exam for the American Board of Pediatrics. The actress and I shouldn't be practicing pediatrics. Any different in California than in Florida Than Maine or whatever but I need to get licensed in all fifty fifty states or a big portion of it if I want to practice telemedicine and I'm happy to pay the fees if I have to but to fill out all these forms and and get certified by every state is absolutely ridiculous so we we need to reform that and then the other thing is whether or not Insurance Company wants to reimburse different types of telemedicine so ours is a store and forward method where you capture the information and then you Ford it. It isn't by phone isn't by video and we like that for the convenience and the confidentiality But some people consider that telemedicine some people say is explicitly not telemedicine. Some people say you can't prescribe unless you physically seen the patient but If you were to come into my office I wouldn't do anything anything differently. I would ask you these questions. I would check your blood pressure and medications so to make it invalid or not legal is decreasing people's IOS access to birth control and same thing going with specific laws against abortion pill. That's not my company but I have a lot of friends in that field and and they're facing specific log going after them. So as I was looking through this sort of process of how you get control with India It made me think about how it's a lot of it is sort of a formality and it made me wonder about sort of the ongoing. I'm going to be. It's over whether birth control should be a prescription medication or be available over the counter. And I've heard until recently it was mostly Asli People on the left. Who wanted to see it be available over the counter but recently there's been sort of pushed back on that Where people are saying well but then insurance companies could up not to cover it? So I'm wondering what you think about birth control as a prescription medication and whether how you think we can resolve that kind of dilemma. Yes I think. It's unfortunate that the Democrats and those who believe an access to birth control do not want it to go over the counter because they're they're afraid insurance won't cover it so the solution is not to not let it go over the counter. The solution to pass a law that you will cover it right and that is what has been done under the affordable care act any. FDA approved method of birth control for women have to be covered by insurance whether it's over the counter or prescription Only and Some insurances have some insurances or some companies have been opted out of it for religious institutions. Unfortunately we like Georgetown University or Jesuit colleges. Certainly you know Catholic church unfortunately might extend to Catholic. Hospital have opted out of covering birth control. And as I said it's fiscally stupid and morally wrong to not cover birth control because for every one dollar you spend on birth control troll you save six dollars in healthcare costs and that is not including Pre and post natal care and the effect on families lies. When you have an unplanned unwanted pregnancy it should be over the counter of the American College of Setris and Gynecology in two thousand twelve and two thousand sixteen and I believe again in two thousand nineteen hundred affirmed firmed? Did they believe birth control pills and consequently the patch and the ring are perfectly safe if you give women twenty questions which are the twenty questions we ask them on our website website. They are perfectly capable if they mark anything in the wrong column to realize this is not safe I will get a blood clot and I could die and so they will exclude blue bins where they've actually done research with our. They had a bunch of women take this quiz and St. How many of them got it wrong and decided to give birth control? They didn't give it to them. Just you know questionnaire are and all the women excluded themselves correctly from taking birth control. I would still like to see some physician guidance. Only for if you have Difficulties picking it or if you are obviously fit in any of the no categories then you need to see a provider to deal with that but I absolutely absolutely supported going over the counter and I think the solution is not to not get over the counter for fear of not insurance coverage but rather to mandate insurance coverage via the affordable care act and California has passed an extra law thing if the forcible character is reverse then these contraceptive rights and access are guaranteed that it will continue to be available with no co-pay no deductible as long as it's an FDA approved methods of birth control. And I believe probably five to ten other states have done similarly all the progressive states Washington Oregon Are often in well. Well it strikes me plenty of other over the counter medications. That people don't always exclude themselves from practically. Yes we always say that a tylenol. Aw is far more dangerous than a pack of emergency contraception then thing than a pack of pill. You can't do too much damage with one packet. So so what are the other things that we talk a lot about on. The podcast is a women's executive could have power. So we're we're talking on another series of episodes about the possibility of a woman president and one of the problems. People seem to have an envisioning joining a woman. President is that they don't envision women in executive roles at all We have very few comparatively very few women. CEO's for instance. So I'm wondering wondering if you could talk to to to that piece of what you do of being a CEO and a woman and and a doctor and an how that role in seeing women in those roles is so important. Yes I have heard the phrase and I I believe that Sally Ride. If you can't see it you can't be in certainly unle. Many of us have shattered. Glass ceiling entered areas where others have not been before and we definitely have our male allies and I am thankful for all those that our are allies but being a woman. CEO has absolutely opened my eyes to the continuing ceiling against against us. When I go and pitch I have all these negatives seen against me? I'm a woman I'm a mother. I'm a doctor. I'm over the age of forty five and I see vs all as benefits because I'm over forty five. I've got amazing connections and networks. Because I'm the mother I know how to multitask because I'm a doctor. I know the field inside and out and I will make sure that our customer gets the best care possible and and I think it's really important that we as consumers and we're going to start a movement it's going to be either called full and then female founded female lead our heart heart full and the glasses half full and the sky is at least half full or it's going to be while like growl women on women lead and and we're GonNa have a stamp of approval that says this company is women owned women lead women's founded because I don't know people arch checking when they look at the companies out there that this company is run by this run companies. Run by a guy. This companies run by a guy. Who's a lawyer just wants to make big money? This companies run by a woman who was passionate and just wants to prevent unplanned pregnancies and make woman's life easier and make the world a better place for her our two daughters. Which company do you WANNA patronize? And people are just like going for the cheapest possible option and we are. Prices are very competitive additive. But it may cost more because we have better doctors we have providers that are coming from. UCSF UCLA harbored These kinds of things and But it's a different the five dollars a year. You know or or a couple of dollars there but mainly I want people to look look at the company I'm choosing who is the founder who is the leader and ask for accountability if you own shares of stock look at how many boards awards have women on it and I am perpetually horrified and shocked whenever I get this vote on your stock thing that only one out of ten one out of twenty on t it is their woman representation there and what's beautiful being woman. CEO is that my daughters and those around them all know that so you can be a CEO. What really touched me with my daughter for Had John Wayne at her summer camp where you can dress up in June or July forget in and whatever costuming wanted and she's just us as a CEO so that was really. There's a picture of her. I always wear my Pandya. T T shirt a white skirt and I carry on bag and I was like do you want to carry the combat is like no mommy a dote but she had. She had the shirt that she had this skirt and I was talking to sleep. And she's like mom and giving them business cards hand them out semi camp Camp Counselor and I was like yes. They'll do the perfect target audience. Audience here takes them business cards. And so you know. I love that. She seeing this and knowing this and I love my husband for his support in my family and and everyone anyone out there and they're for anyone contemplating there is a huge community of support for you but it is a hard and long haul and I hope that women realize realized we have the money we have the power and weakened in power more. CEO's if you purposely look for a company run by woman and Support Court that if you have money to donate You can actually help. Fund female founded female lead companies through various organizations that just portfolio or impact acid. And you can actually do it through a nonprofit donation impact assets if you have a donor advised fund or if you just have money and and you can also just do it straight up with your money if you WanNa make money. But sometimes people like doing it through their non profit donations so I think it's really important to get more women. CEO's out there but also more women CEO's found funded and we need more women to invest. Women are really good at donating but they're not investing and we need you to invest in women. There's also she. EEO Give a shout out for them. And we're you know I believe the minimum vestments like a thousand dollars but there are other platforms where it's I think like Iceland women in like zero dot. Well you have to give something to invest in a woman founded did one in life company. Is there anything else that you wanted to make sure we talk about. Yes I just want If any real listeners WANNA learn more about turning off period and the safety and the science behind it to go to Pandya health dot com slash periods optional and on top is a nicely presented and find some safety on the bottom. Is My tech talk on the science and safety in the middle is if you're on the pill patch ring how to do it and also WanNa give a shout out there. We're GONNA have a black Friday cyber Monday special for those of you who want to check it out. We can deliver again to all fifty states and Lincoln Prescribe in California and Florida and soon to be tecos and soon the entire United States But always happy to answer any questions about periods about reproductive rights and One parole I always like to give Pearl is no that there are four types of emergency agency contraception and two out of the four are better than the one that most people know which is plan B or leaving gesture all generic and those two are the copper. IUD Is the most effective ninety nine point nine nine percent effective and the second most effective is the prescription only emergency contraception called Ella and because under the Care Act etc it should be available. No Co pay no deductible AKA free if you have insurance and that one is better at every time period and if your BMI twenty six or greater and I say you know my Bmi twenty-five and after Thanksgiving it's probably GonNa be twenty six no Don't be using plan. Be An generics. Ask Your providers prescription of L. A.. And have it on the side as they fire extinguisher anguish or just in case of emergencies. And when you get to ask your pharmacist for the one with the farthest expiration date after one expires today excellent will put it links up on our website and links to your youtube channel as well. Because I know you've answered lots of questions on there as well so we'll put links up for all of that. Thank you so much. I'm yeah always happy to chat about The horrible attack on Women's reproductive rights. But hopefully that will change everybody the vote and everybody who donate twenty twenty all right well excellent. Thank you so much for joining us and I'm sure that Hopefully everything will go great. And we'll get that our laws but if we have more attacks on women's reproductive health which we likely will maybe we'll check back in with you. Thank you so much for having me and I love what you guys are doing and I love women helping women all right thank you thank you. Thank you for listening into two bras talking politics. Part of the dim cast podcast network. Our theme song is called. Are you listening of the album elephant shaped trees by the band land and we're using it with permission of the band. Our logo and other original artwork is by matthew wetland and was created for use by this. podcast you can contact contact us at two broads talking politics at g mail dot com or on twitter or facebook at two brides talk you can find all of our episodes at two broads talking politics dot com or anywhere podcast found.

CEO California CEO and Co founder Pandya Health CEO and Co Sophie Hey Kelly Florida Dr Sophia Yen FDA Dr Sophia Dr Yan founder Stanford Stanford Hanford clinical associate professor
Daily Briefing - May 15, 2020

Adventures in Finance: A Real Vision Podcast

35:22 min | 4 months ago

Daily Briefing - May 15, 2020

"Hi I'm Ralph. Powell co founder and CEO Vision. Thank you so much for listening to the Rhodesian podcast. A real vision. We pride ourselves in providing the best in-depth expert analysis available to help you understand the complex world of finance business and the global economy. If you like what you hear a hopeful accept my invitation to try real vision plus for thirty days for just one dollar visit real vision. Podcast DOT com today and join us as we navigate the financial world together cheese Welcome to the real vision. Daily briefing. I'm Jack Farley. It's Friday may fifteenth. We've got our CEO row pal standing by with senior editor at Bennington. And they're ready to give their macro analysis but first April showers have brought me flowers but for many. Us retailers is a silent spring US headline retail numbers out today down sixteen point four percent month over month for April much. Worse than the twelve percent expected by economists at almost double the eight point three percent drop last March by sector the worst drops were in electronics and appliance stores which was down sixty point. Six percent and including including series which plummeted shocking. Seventy eight point eight percent. The only category to show an increase in spending was non store sales which was up eight point four percent. This includes retailers like Amazon and shows that online buying continues to dominate as people are reluctant to stores this precipitous fall in retail activity shows. That consumers have a heightened sense of thrift as the labor market continues to tighten and as some states start to reopen. Consumer spending will likely pick up. The question. Going forward is how quickly and are the brick and mortar retailers sufficiently capitalised to whether the storm in other news today wral sat down with legendary investor Howard marks. It's a fascinating conversation about where we are in the credit cycle and how investors can position themselves going forward definitely. Check that out if you haven't already and on Monday rally speaking to the Great Mike. Nova rats stay tuned for that. And lastly a new syndrome is popping up that's connected to the corona buyers and it's affecting children it had previously been thought that children were largely spared the effects of the corona virus but now this pediatric multi-system inflammatory syndrome is throwing a wrench in that theory. Many children who were diagnosed with syndrome had tested positive for a bias or had positive antibody tests which means that they had it. Seventy three cases were reported in New York and more Louisiana Mississippi and California as well as at least fifty cases reported in Europe this New Syndrome in children introduces a complicating factor in our ongoing battle against the virus and we'll be monitoring it closely going forward and with that alternative over to senior editor at Bennington and are fearless. Ceo Ralph how Ash Takeaway Extract Jack. Interesting color around that dismal retail sales print from earlier. Today I'm spending ten from New York joined today by row pal our CEO and Co founder. It's Friday march. Fifteen twenty twenty. This is a real vision daily briefing. How're you doing today wral good? It's Friday we've survived another week. We survived another week. That's right the markets survive. Fritzy on skate really happened. It's one of those weird weeks. Yeah we've had a number of counterintuitive weeks. Yeah we have a that loss week. I think the narrative the narrative is some fading. You can feel the markets spending a little bit struggling a little bit heavier You know the Bond Market. The yields fell a little bit last week. And then Kinda stabilize new low level just makes you feel the okay. The onus is going from the Bulls From the bash of the Bulls. Now the bulls have to prove their case going forwards and probably got slightly easier ride. Because so much is priced in. So let's wait and see I can't get to grips with whether we're talking out on. It's not really a cold I WANNA make yet but I just noticed that volatility's coming down lock it's trying to move around but really getting Anywa Yup and that would bring nicely to the conversations you had with Howard marks And Kyle Bass earlier this week. But before we do that route. You mentioned the hope. Can YOU RECAP For those who aren't as familiar as you are with the framework that you put around it because I think it's a really simple and elegant way of understanding in the broadest sense what may be happening in markets. Right now yes monk. It's often come in three phases in terms of Bam markets. It's very common. So if you think about the most sake was nineteen twenty nine but it's repeated in the Nikkei and the S&P all of these times and we got the shot move down this grind rally higher the usually try about fifty percents or more of the original down move and then it rolls over and the third way come so the first wave is what I refer to as the liquidation phases. The quake panic. Oh my God oh my God we got this wrong so with the virus was very clear what happened then and this the hope phase put the numbers going to get better going forwards now You know we don't need to worry about that. There's probably a virus coming look with fed of stunner and the government. I mean everybody's doing the same so surely this is all going to be fine. And then there's the reality now. This is the hard pass. What is the reality? My version of reality is insolvency. I believe growth will not get positive enough to generate enough cash flow for companies and people to cover the debt debt servicing. The last time we had an insolence event was the nineteen thirty s whereas mass insolvency. So that's what I'm worried about Ryan. Now other people may have a third leg of the people may have a belief that yes we can go back down again but then we kind of more stimulus comes in. We grind higher but that that's the kind of framework that I'm using. The hope phase is now. I think making way to the next phase which we need to see. That's interesting and it sets up really nicely to talk about the conversation you had with Howard Marks. That came out today that I thought was so engaging because it took the framework and actually looked back and said okay but where were we when we began this cycle right when the corona virus story broke where we're markets and how they've gotten there. Yeah I mean how like myself is a student of the Business Michael. We look at it in different ways But basically we locate the business cycle and we both reached the same conclusion that the business cycle is very long teeth and it was week like talked about this extensively unreal vision that we had a number of issues. Outstanding from trade tariffs through the effects of rising. Us interest rates through to than the oil price collapse and the strong dollar. And all of these things were crazy perfect storm and then cova capable so I think how it was in that same camp. Although at this point I think like many struggling to put probability and what happens next right and that's okay. I mean that's why we did. The series is not necessarily as his hope which is a bit bizarre but he. That's his business distressed debt. His hope is to see the phase that I'm looking at but the problem is is the liquidation please happened too fast and the Fed came to quickly actually binding of real note. So I think it's GonNa be interesting to see what this next phase is but how was very clear that it's on certain to him. Yeah and you know and speaking to Kyle also spoke during the week I mean Kyle was interesting because he come agrees with me. That growth is likely to be slower. But he's in the camp of Hugh Hendry and several others Johnson that maybe equity just go up anyway and I don't know personally for me. I think it's a Pavlovian response that people think that that. Qe In all forms raises the price of equities by this. We know it doesn't work in Japan and we know it doesn't work in Europe. We didn't know we know it didn't work in the UK and it didn't work in Switzerland in work and all these other countries have done it but apparently the the US has special. Now I think it's the investor mindset show could it be it the reserve currency Blah Blah? Maybe but I think it's Emperor's new clothing and I think the Central Bank has less influence over risk assets. The people truly imagine when you say mindset it really in some ways is good lead into the sort of nuance and subtlety that was in both of those conversations in the way that both of those investors view the world. I thought it was really interesting to listen to. Howard marks talk about effectively would seem to be suggesting was a balance of probabilities. When you look at the Look at the business cycle and try and get a sense of where valuations are in what the probability of of a directional moves up or down in the future will be. I thought it was really interesting when he told that story about him. Buying four hundred and fifty million dollars. in In high yield debt after the LEAD BANKRUPTCY. And how he mentioned the timing. I thought that was an interesting analog and metaphor for where we might be right now. Yes although I didn't get the conviction broke him. It's interesting because some people and this is dead right. This is investing. No everybody should have answers right. I love the intellectual integrity of saying I don't know so keeping do and we'll save big opportunities. Come along ought yeah but we all know that these levels is now. The expected return of almost all asset. Prices is close to zero so much case. It's very difficult to somebody like Howard. Who's a distraction? Best to validate momentum investors potentially. There's more Opportunity Kyle Edwards was interesting. Is he said fine? We understand this and we understand this this potential argument about short dollars which I'm not sure. He's a huge of my argument about that but he does say well. Listen the problem is is everybody's becoming anti-china right now and they're going to stop China to capitalize. We saw that with the allocations in a bunch of other stuff this week that and the way way stuff that came out says well fields line is going to be ratcheting up. Gains the election of China blaming the probability of the Chinese currency weakening as Carl suggested getting Haya and at the march in the Hong Kong getting weaker as well so I thought that was interesting to see people who think through. WanNa thanks you analyze situation now. Basically the situation there is the US dollar and the consumer if those operational in the world then it's very difficult for time to sell anything or get any dollars you know. I'm one of the things that has been on the vanguard for for a number of years Is the intersection between the policy. Space and the macroeconomic outlook especially vis-a-vis China's always interested in listening to him talk about that. The other thing that I thought was interesting as you suggested how was the bifurcation of capital markets in the real economy. That he was talking about. You know I thought it was really interesting that he sort of framed. It in his argument is much more subtle nuance. These are my words. Almost as as a battle between the stimulus response from the Fed and especially from fiscal policy and the real damage being done to the real economy of killed sake talks goes. Can we just let me finish thank you? I don't believe that in yeah I do too. It's walked time all right. Let's so what? What are your thoughts on on? Kyle's view about sort of stimulus versus real economic damage. I don't think the stimulus is enough to paper over the crops. The crops cracks longer than three months. And guess they'll have to do more And I think that the whole world is set themselves up for a big cliff. Follows understand it. Almost everybody is planned for a roughly three month. Episode OF PAPER. You have the cash flows in the private sector. So we'll get into invert three months June July then walls well. We've probably got another gap we before we get any stimulus. That's a big gap in markets. That's a big gap in demand. I think's GonNa scare the hell out of people particularly people who have taken stimulus and hoping that it's ongoing so I I'm concerned by the whole stimulus thing. It will continue. And it will ratchet up into the election and then the election said yeah talking of stimulus some rather I guess one could say bearish remarks Ma j pollen also a mirrored by Loretta Miester earlier in the week. What is your take on that respect? Well there seems to be the of Miester was saying that the view of recovery is essentially an equal probability between that a more dire outcome. The there could be continued a continued downswing in the economy. I mean it was really striking because it sounded as though she were saying. It's almost a fifty fifty shot. Well what Jay Powell use almost my terminology of of a liquidity event into a solvency events. So they understand the issue facing here ad and it's the deflation issue that they're not going to talk about for a while because once they do they really people realize how much trouble therein. So I I think that is the problem that they knows that facing. Finally the Molson the cupboard that they'd been shying away from for almost twenty years. I mean don't forget this whole central banks story all been about. The nineteen thirties happened again. People have learned. Maybe maybe they haven't but I've observed that somebody who feared something like I'm terrified of falling off a ladder gender-related ladder and they fall off. Most people attracts their fears. And it's like the Fed have attracted their own fair which was the theoretical argument. That happened twenty years ago when I was a g and Goldman is what happens when he gets zero rights and then the deflation event because that's what they've been fighting from day one. This is all the banenky staff the Greenspan stuff the yellen all been this and if a woman they wanted they didn't want it's arrived so that's why I think that fifty fifty coin toss and I think that's dead right. I put sixty forty in favor that we go to open seven but I think the Fed confidants realized much more than the market is that this is a knife-edge and the Fed realized is also Bingo in a solvency event. Liquidity doesn't Massa. You need to replace cash flow. The only way of doing this fiscal stimulus is the only way. Probably Mazes Kenny. Get enough physical stimulus down and can you get the government to understand the severity of what this so. It's probably not into the happens so it's fascinating times. We're living history right now. Yeah we truly are another thing that strikes me as being adjacent to that The issue of Inflation versus deflation relative to what you talked about with. Kyle was his talk about the about a bifurcation of the economy between the digital and the non digital receiving that we're really dismal retail sales today. But we're seeing Amazon. I think seventy five billion dollars increase quarter over quarter In in sales there is this stark by vacation. Going on between mom and pops or just getting crushed and large tech savvy well-capitalized companies. Yes I mean. Sandra has been the guy he's been talking about this for a long time The reality is is Malkin Jason's genius of the comments of softwares eating. The world remains truer every day that we exist. And I'm looking at the world's going forwards and I'm like okay in will cain woods. You probably very happy by Microsoft Apple Amazon and you're done alone General Electric Ford. At and T. Stuff like this. I mean these massively indebted old-economy companies and that's I'm mind. Focus is starting to shift on not shorting. The high the highly indebted triple base the giant companies that. Everything's can fail because I think they might Because of the are so bad so that is trade and I don't see what changes in that trade is also exacerbating the dollar strength trade because the US is so dramatically outperforming because Amazon has become the world's greatest streets Isla. And I think I mentioned I don't know if it is on on this show. Before in England we used to have every year the Sunday Times Rich List and I was always pull throat when young people and how they make money and there's always the waves of whatever was fashionable the Internet guys and then this guy whatever was going on the mining guys and then they disappear off less than the people took. The list always always was the supermarket owners. Satan's where he finally in the UK the The Walton family in the US. These guys always at the top of the list and basically what visa stayed was woken and become the world's greatest supermarket and with margins maybe else can compete with. I mean it's incredible and that's not going away. I mean he's usually if I look at the UK supermarkets of us. I grew up there. The dominance of the same names has been there for fifty years hundred years in some cases. Same in Germany Alley leask giants. These ultra ultra-wealthy multigenerational families now have completely dominated rinse. So yes some of these state and cyclical secular that big on that while the world's greatest supermarket maybe the world's greatest retailer With untouchable margins backed up by streams of rich data that no one can compete with a world class glow infrastructure. Yeah Yeah and as long as they abused their power there okay. Google less convinced survives as company. Yeah well the interesting thing about Google is you know. We think about all their Whiz Bang Technology and they're doing absolutely amazing stuff on the software development and engineering front but their model is effectively. The same model. That radio stations had in the nineteen thirties. It's advertising just advertising. Say It just media platform with advertising as is facebook basically they one trick ponies so the thing is is in a advertising even a shrinking well attracts more so they seem to be more stable. But let's see more drawn out event but a one month market drop. Let's have some real real recession. Let's have advertising budgets and then let's see what happens to Google and facebook and my guess is that things will evaporate. Yeah Yeah it's a risk at. It's a risk that certainly Amazon doesn't seem to face because you know they're in the necesary is business. Yeah exactly right well. During in the need business business I mean we've seen in real vision. We switched from one to have to must-have once it becomes a need. It's much more people people. Don't go anywhere else. It's it's a very interesting point when that happens. You touched on something. At the beginning we were heading into Amazon. We were talking about the old old world kind of style. Companies Indebted Companies. You talked about triple bees. Can you give us a little bit? More context a little bit more color on. Why you think the triple B market is the one to watch. So I've talked about this doom loop on religion before as part of a health faces of mine which is based around the the maximum amounts of culprit debt in. Us history now. That debt was driven by corporations basically wasting their own capsule by backlashes without putting it into more effective use efficient productive. Use those bums issued a went to the pension system because they want to deal but your circle problem venture circles as we continue to do when they reverse it was. The prices stopped buying battleships. Because they've got a cashflow 'cause GDP down thirty percent on the other side. The pensions tended to get money from taxes particularly in the US state. Pensions infant taxes. And they bowled now this audience. That meant that these giant companies could use up any ground and the particularly they share price by by issuing tons of that. I'm become more leveraged and so g Ford General Motors del different. 'cause it was kind of a management buyout thing but it's basically they're all massively indebted companies and because they should so much that they kept getting downgraded agencies and then there is big fat tailed triple. Ps which means investment grade in your pension plan. The problem is the moment that I get downgrade. In full capacity downgraded they spill out and going to the junk bond market pension plans count whole junk bonds or have a much lower waiting so that means it blows up the junk bond markets and. Everybody has a scrambled the capsule. The Fed kind of aware of this is why they tried to stop that. Liquidity event happening so the trickle bees or huge concern. Now people say the Fed by the credit. Now they've said Yeah you watch the magic. A market's going to destroy an equity price tag on the way it works because we saw in Europe well. The Europeans didn't want to let the bank records zero so they basically backstop all of that. Guess what equities got zero. Virtually nothing you can do that unless you nationalize them. So or by equities. Well no because if you buy equities in the the national office right. So so there is no way out you're going to nationalize the banks whether you like it or not. But it's either the equity price zero or some higher right and it's the same with General Electric. At and T. I don't know because it has cash flow from as as hunt. It's like a two hundred ninety billion dollar market cap with one hundred and sixty seven billion of on balance sheet debt. So it's the most indebted private entity on earth. And it's interesting yeah that's at and T. Guess why just like AOL. Time Warner. Bob Bloody television business at the peak of the cycle and added a huge amount of debt. You know eight hundred t time Warner and great well. Mark Time. Warner's fantastic marking the top of every market. Aol Time Warner was exactly the two thousand because well Steve Case time that would perfectly. Yeah so I kind of feel like it's been done again and this time you know you've got big problems in my guess is they'll have to entirely restructure the company at some point. That's early days and it's not my expertise but I just look at the chart. I think that share prices going to fifty percent from him no problem and General Electric. I've been on that General Electric thing for five years and I'm like this is going to start with your impact. Chaz everybody knows have been very vocal about their August two zero. The the magnetic pull of gigantic debts in slow growth economy is just Yukon. Avoid it a it's like a Supernova. Just sucks everything into it. You make this destruction sounds elegant round the British accent so small. He's not smart at holy for Manchester. Yes he walks but it's because he's going to make me Saxon most Manchester accent. Everyone thinks it's really clever. Definitely a crowd favorite You know talking stocks and other thing that you touched on in your conversation with Howard marks that I thought was interesting and there. There was some ambiguity in it and I'm curious to know if you upon thinking about it. In further reflection I have had any thoughts about the value versus growth conversation. You had with Howard marks. This is a really complicated topic as we know. We've discussed Lonrho real vision. Because it's very important and that doesn't seem to be any reason for value versus growth to change In a market downturn. Maybe but really still rather on Microsoft and apple would okay mic softener brother and then giving facebook for the reasons we talked about. Yeah got those companies. I mean they got massive action. Everything else that's will let you petrol worse than value companies. I I don't know but all I know is the indexation trend. The strong dollar tread just keeps driving those trends further. It's GonNa more decimate valley. Investors eventually obviously turn green made. Believe that it doesn't tell us all that structured dumb I don't know we'll say and Microsoft along with Johnson Johnson the only US company with a AAA rating. Really I believe so. Yeah Yeah I mean Microsoft. I mean who thought that I mean incredible right. I thought that was done back in two thousand four three really K. Now there's plenty of other entrance into your space. Then they change. Ceo Twice by the time they get to the second CEO. They've retool themselves into basically the company nobody can do anything else very much and you know they missed the boat on the Internet and I think Bill Gates has been pretty up front and outspoken about. They just missed the boat. They didn't see that coming. They didn't understand it. They didn't have the opportunity to be as agile as they would have liked and yet they built this massive behemoth. They have so many different businesses. That are phenomenally profitable to have hardware. They have cloud services. They've got their gaming business. They've got of course the office suite business which is now a subscription service with recurring revenue. And of course they've got the OS business. I mean what's not to like about Microsoft? Yeah I'm probably the valuation but other than that. I mean you know I'm a macro I don't really care about stocks in the visual level but I look at anything. It's a great company is not going away yet. At some point everything changes. Exxon would now be putting these gigantic head and shoulders top. It looks like Exxon and all these oil companies are going to become much less significant now lives going forwards. Nobody would've thought that twenty years ago. Well that and the fact that everyone real vision now uses a Mac. We're complete Kelso. Mac Hair fanatic at heaven. Forbid your text message comes back. The dreaded Green Yeah. I'm not the blue. I don't know why it happened but I just love I. I like apple because I like brand and I like design just like the way done things. I also find that they have more integrity than others. Yeah well I mean one reason for that is i. Think the leadership of the company but but also the fact that the thing that they're selling you is the thing that you're buying you're not the product it's not advertising right. I understand the transaction when I buy something from Apple I buy piece of hardware. I buy a piece of software. Whatever it is I get it. I'm not having something sold to and I'm not having my private information used In a way that maybe I don't know or understand. Did you know that apple is not a market leader in any segment of competes in? I actually did know that but their margins are so immense that it doesn't matter because they've got to find the type of customer which is mild smaller miles larger in money. Then they built a brand around which is typical of anything from jeans companies. You can believe is where you can be some you know design jeans and you can try ten times price for the same product basically shaved on this very well and all of the lvmh done this very well. So that's what they did. They took Cole customer and said forget that gives you that. We'll give you some entry level entries into it for for other people and then dominate. That section gives them everything they could ever need. And before you know it you music television phones your pulse where everything is embedded in the apple system and you don't mind because they don't seem to be too evil yes that's well said I once you're once you buy into the ecosystem it's really want to go elsewhere It would make me feel physically sick to have to unwind myself to from the apple ecosystem. I would be shocked if I've got an android message from your reply back with dreaded green you'd be out of a club so in the few minutes we have left. What are you going to be looking at on next week? What are you most eagerly anticipating And what are you looking? Forward to confirm or discontinued some aspects of your thesis through our main with too cool `this to cool things that already care about right now. One is the US dollar amusing. The euro's proxy the brakes one in seven seventy five. I think the next phase of the dollar. It has been bouncing off that level all week and driving me nuts. So that's one the other is. I'm watching. Let's say two year notes. You can choose anything five years. Whatever I wanted to see that. Come low within won't see that. I expected to come from. Let the fifteen baseball. Today's two zero. Which is telling us? The Bull. Markets thinks that the future is not quite as rosy to put it mildly. And so those are the things. I'm looking full Whiteson to see. I'm watching the data out of chimes to see what and South Korea to see what level bounce back we get and again. I think you for the economy starts at here. Went down here. It comes up here. That's below zero. That's what I'm looking for. It'll take a while because we'll often have the first bound thank will come above because his pens up and then it comes back. Let's wait and see what that is. But that's the most important thing that's what's in my mind that's once obsessing. May and then on the television side. There's a fantastic into. You might no regrets on Monday with everybody from Carol. Sakharov interviewing lacy hunt to Hugh Hendry interviewing his hero Richard Werner from Princess of the yen in his interview with you. Of course yes So it's it's an embarrassment of riches of content and ninety that but it comes it continues the we have from the week off that because we have such a response from these incredible invested saint lists and Kuby parts of this that basically. It's going to bleed on with a ridiculous Anna Content Ralph for people who aren't quite so familiar with this. Can you explain a little bit about what these three weeks that we're going to be doing are and why they're so important? Old comes down to the simple question that you wanNA know. I WanNa know your brother. Your uncle wants to know the guy on the street wants to know. Every single person in the world wants no is okay. We're in the middle of a global recession. What happens next and would not? None of us knew the answer. But Oh weakened. Israel vision is bring the smartest people in the world together to figure out what's going on and that's our mission really so we're really there to help people and it's basically one dollars. Get free trials to watch all this content and it would be madness not to do that. That's the twenty trillion dollar question. Isn't it if we can get twenty million subscribers for that league right but I don't think I meant the question about this recession where we're going where we're going to end up next well even more than that? I think it's fifty trillion a stimulus. Cook if I'm right we're going to be tens of trillions of stimulus at the end of this a whole new wealth of bitcoin. Gold is a whole new well but that's a big long conversation for another day so much to talk about so much coming up in the next few weeks. Ralph thanks for joining us. Thanks so much have a great week. Had you and everybody else thank you. I'll tell you the dogs walk now.

Us Howard marks Fed Amazon Europe Kyle apple Microsoft CEO Bulls China UK facebook Ralph Hugh Hendry CEO and Co
Ep. 334 - Earning Bitcoin-back with EVERY Purchase, w/ Fold App CEO Will Reeves


35:50 min | 3 months ago

Ep. 334 - Earning Bitcoin-back with EVERY Purchase, w/ Fold App CEO Will Reeves

"Today's show is brought to you by our new sponsor cog network COG network geared gain cog network is hedge fund investing evolved by owning COG network tokens. You get exposure to the hedge funds gains. The Hedge Fund is comprised of Algorithms. Commodity futures and investment in hard assets related to energy. The first hard asset is partial ownership of a multimillion dollar. Solar farm has a crypto mining operation attached I mean this is really something that both traditional and crypto investors can come together and participate in so for traditional investors they can get exposure to cutting edge, blockchain, technology, and a framework that they're familiar with a hedge fund right in crypto investors can get exposure to an actual security that bears dividends and includes non crypto assets, so that's super cool, and just for full disclosure, cognitive work is a fully registered and regulated entity qualified by the SEC. As well as S and has a five or six exemption, they've been working with lawmakers since two thousand seventeen to get this idea built out in a fully compliant way crypt nation. If you guys are interested in learning more about a token tokens hedge fund, go visit, www dot com dot network. What's a good citizens of crypt nation? You have pizza mind here. I'm running solo today. Bryce is taking care of the crypto Hedge Funds Summit interviews which are just beginning today. That's right. We're putting on another virtual summit and really taken off like wildfire. We're seeing them pop up all over the place now and we're really happy to see that. This free information is being made available to the masses so definitely if you have this is your first time hearing about at Checkout Crypto? Hedge Funds Summit Dot. com and we also want to thank our sponsors for this episode, Detoro and COG network. This is pretty cool episode. We're GONNA be talking with will reeves the CEO and Co founder of the fold. Fold is one of the coolest things going on in crypto right now because they're helping, get bitcoin into the hands of people that otherwise might have no idea how to do it, so we'll welcome to the crypto one podcast. Thanks Aaron great to be here. I wanted to ask you something. Non crypto related before we jump into everything with everything going on right now with corona virus and everyone working from home. I know you guys over there are fold. You guys have always worked as a distributed team. Is that correct? Yeah so fold has note from the outset Ben, working in a remote first capacity and It has been very interesting watch. The rest of the world adopts or transition to this. Right now and It is certainly one of those things that's challenging to do even when we're not in a crisis, but when we're in a crisis at it provides other challenges to that imagine a lot of other businesses who weren't remote for star now facing now. Why did you decide to do this from the outset? What were the advantages and disadvantages that you were saying? You know we are a where a small A. A small team that had a big vision of what we wanted to accomplish, and it requires having access to the best talent in the world, and you know when you have seed funding, and you're a small startup to begin with It's hard to compete for the best talent when you're, you're facing some of the larger players, and so it's really was always very important to us to number one. Make. Sure that full had access to a a deep talent pool. That's Global but also you know it really aligns with the culture. We have here about individual responsibility and freedom, and really that work and life. needs to be mutually beneficial and we find the best mix of that is in a remote context I've always found. The my favorite jobs have been working remote I know for a lot of other people that are very extroverted. It's an awful thing to be stuck in the House all day. There's no chance to be social and talk to people face to face and look someone in the eye. Will what advice would you give to other business owners out there listening to this podcast and you're trying to adjust to managing people that they can actually see. They don't know if they're actually working or not. What advice you might be able to give. Yeah I mean when you're when you go from. Being Co located in in an environment where you could see everyone on your team, to suddenly everyone is squirrel the way into their own. Homes. You're trying to still execute on the goals that you have the. You can't see them. You don't know what they're doing, and it's it. It's gotta be a rough transition for many people right now, and you know the way that we have done it is. Number One. You have to attract the right type of people that that are. Seeking A job. Where they allows them the freedom, but with extreme accountability, and that's really some of the magic of being remote workforce is that there's a lot of trust involved in the only way that trust is built is off good accountability structures and and good culture, and so You know if you're if you're worried about. People aren't doing their work or that. You know I think the thing that people normally miss is that it's not just the difference of working in an office verse working at home. There's an entire different value system. Culture and technology stack required to support a remote remote team nurses a team. It's Co located, and so I think we're GONNA. See a lot of collisions with. normally Colo Colo teams now going remote in saying Oh, we're not as efficient, were not as effective. I don't know what everyone's doing in. That is less a symptom of now working remote and more symptom of just the infrastructure and culture that they have developed. His point was not geared or find tune towards remote environment and so I think getting that right understanding that it's GonNa be a hard transition as the. Thing to do, but you'll also understand is that? When you go remote the social element is that much more important, even though you're not small talk together in one room you need to be even more socially aware empathetic to your teammates, point of view, and so you know you have the lean into the social do not allow isolation. Do not allow people to not know at the goal is and so things like sinking up in the morning. You know for fifteen twenty. Twenty minutes as a team outlining the goals for the day making sure that when someone has an idea or is running into a problem, it's documented in text in your chat so that people who are not at the desk at that moment can come back. Get up to speed, and your team can work together it's it's really fascinating. Subject than we are constantly fine tuning at ourselves over here full. Very well said and I. Think one thing I want to add to that is. You can have just as good efficiency, if not better when working remote, and the reason for that is simply people don't have to deal with a grueling commute first thing in the morning. They're not rushing out of their house. Half made up trying to wake up while they're driving through traffic to clock in on time. They're going to be a lot more at peace. Hopefully despite all the craziness going on just for not simply having that commute to get to four hours of their day back just by working at home so once the infrastructure is in place, and like you mentioned. The culture is in place. I think you're GONNA. See your bottom line. Still be just as happy and I think we're GONNA. See A lot of people decide to stick with remote. or at least allow it on a more regular basis. Even after this all passes, I couldn't agree more you'll you people really understanding the the work life balance the the the value of of working remote. It's GONNA be hard to go back and I think that's going to create a lot of people who are pushing for change in their own. and the good thing is that companies like old and a lot of others that have been doing remote for awhile have created play books of a lot of good support resource help guide these other companies to making this transition to be honest full the full team would not be as talented would not be as effective and would not be as happy if it weren't for our remote I culture. Well said so. Let's finally dive into the fold APP. Gives a high level overview what the fold APP is trying to accomplish. Full? LAP is trying to get as many people bitcoin. In at least amount of time we are trying to really read remake the on boarding experience into Bitcoin and the way we've done it is creating a bitcoin rewards APP that gives you cashback in Bitcoin for not doing the shopping you do every day at Amazon. Uber, starbucks and so. The idea here that full believes there are more people interested in shopping. Spending than there are speculators who mostly attracted to exchanges. We're building the product to give value and focused on what we consider, the longer tail of the Tatchell. New bitcoin in those are those that don't necessarily want to go through the KYC. Don't want to put their hard earned money on the table by buying into Bitcoin to begin with. They don't really understand how to set up a wallet. enfold removes all of those initial hurdles allows you to earn bitcoin in the first ten minutes after using the APP from there. You can learn about the asset and we help educate you so that. You can go further and further down the rabbit hole, but really big fold is all about promoting an accelerating bitcoin adoption. And you guys are doing a great job at it. Now we dive in a little bit deeper. What he's talking about is this is on an APP that lets you buy gift cards to places that you're GonNa, go everyday anyway. starbucks South West Airlines. All kinds of stuff that people are always using. You simply go there you. By the Gift Card you pay for it with the Gift Card, and then you get sats back. Now there's a lot of other companies that are doing this What problems did you see with them? That inspired you to make fold. You, know They're in the space. In the Bitcoin community in in Companies taking on. A project that has to do with bitcoin. It's important that we all are kind of make doing our own Knicks unexperienced executing on our own visions, and we had the first wave of real bitcoin, products and companies come out. That were primarily wallets exchanges. Really it's. How do I hold bitcoin? Get bitcoin. this new wave that we're seeing that fold is very much part of his on this earning alternative ways of of buying or earning bitcoin and so fold along with few others saw this as a major opportunity to make it easier for people to get. bitcoin removed barriers and at and frictions involved, but you'll see that they all work very differently unfold those created very specifically in the way it is. To focus on. Number One. How can we both create a way for people to earn Bitcoin? But also how do we draw them into deeper, the ecosystem to enjoy all the benefits of Bitcoin? You know here at fold. We think bitcoin is the best reward because it has the flexibility of cash in the upside of a of a high performing asset, and so folds supports both of those use cases with you can both earn bitcoin. You can spend bitcoin. And you can be rewarded for doing both of those, and so you know there are other companies that focus purely on the earning aspect and getting it to you, but fold really is here to promote and go a little bit further in integrating the idea of the circular economy, connecting these users who are their first experience with. Bitcoin, to all the other things that can do, and so we really wanted to create a platform. About adoption that connects people into how to get out of it. And how does he use it? Versus others that maybe are just more just a funnel to get more bitcoin that just puts more bitcoin in your pocket, which is definitely part of our goal, but we also want to go a little bit further. Very well said I think fold APP is one of the best on boarding tools for nontechnical nonfinancial people I mean literally anyone can use it. Understand it right away now. We all like cash back. As you mentioned you know sats back even better because it's going to be gaining value over time, but what I want to know is who actually pays out all this bitcoin. And how do they afford it? Is it just coming out of your pocket or who's actually providing the bitcoin that your user getting? You know there's no money trees in bitcoin right Asset and so. You know we get all of the BITCOIN. In are able to get. Allow you to earn the bitcoin because we work with retailers to negotiate A discount on all of the spending going through fold, and then we split that with you. The end user and so fold earns a little bitcoin. Every time you spend in, Saudi you. Okay? That makes sense, so let's say for like a twenty five dollar gift card to starbucks and might cost baby twenty three dollars, and then we get like a dollar back and bitcoin something like that, so you're paying the end users paying the full price for the card, even though the retailers giving us a discount on that and we ate that discount. Converted into Bitcoin and distribute to you giving you. A couple of dollars out of Admin old gets a little bit as well. Okay that makes sense then now you've got something new coming out as well. You've got this rewards card, right? How does that work? And when can I get my Greece? Little hands? We have been working with visa for quite a while on this to to get this announcement out will really excited. You know this. This visa card is going to earn bitcoin every time you swipe it and so this really. Extends. The existing platform no longer it's no longer just the our retail partners. Now it is everywhere you can think about possibly spending any visa merchant, and so it's really expands the ability for people to earn a Bitcoin, but also makes fold more more valuable because it's more relevant to. Daily spending, so we are! We've partnered with them was GONNA. We've opened the weightless. That anybody can get on right now. and the first release will happen. Q. Three will be rolling out in these cards to everybody. Wow, so, how does it work? Is it like a prepaid visa debit card that you have to load US dollars on, or do you convert bitcoin into dollars and load the VISA card? Require what's going on under. Spend dollars and you earn bitcoin. Visa and fold. We created A card program that allows you to spend a have the experience of a debit card. Ease of use You have an attached checking account. You can load it from various other sources and combines it with the rewards of credit card, so our debit card is going to give you rewards that are comparable on par with some of your favorite credit cards that you also use so. This is really important to fold about. Creating a platform that's open to everyone. Right? No credit scar scores. Required, but also gives you the same benefits of having one deal, a friend WHO's interested in getting into cryptocurrency, but they don't know where to start building their portfolio. Well, we have the answer. It's called copy trader by Toro with copy traitor. You can automatically copy every trade of Toro's talk. Crypto traders just like myself or Bryce or Kevin at the exact price point, and in real time, no need to study up on markets or develop your own strategies simply to sign up and copy. Copy our trades any profits that we make you do two proportional to your investment of course with Toro you get access to the world's most popular cryptocurrencies with transparent trading fees, all in one easy to use APP copy the smart money with E. Toro join now at editorial dot com slash crypto one a one. Thank you. That's really big. Because there's when people in this industry trying to bring out stuff like this, you know for four or five years now and we've seen less. Success Than I can count on one hand so for you guys to be able to bring this to market is a huge huge advancement and tip of the cap that you guys are doing things the right way, so congratulations on that visas very very particular who they work with so that that's incredible. What's next on the horizon after that like what? What is your Grand Vision when you can finally say, the fold apposite complete. I don't know if we'll ever get there. I wish we could into the day a little bit of a break, but the team is good is busy already working on the next thing and really you know folds, vision is to become the number one on boarding tool for users. So this means we were. We fully intend to supplant coin based, and all the other traditional on ramps. Wow, because we've fully believed in the data bears out that we are providing a better more friction lists. On ramp than what has ever existed and so what you can expect from fold is that we are providing service that gives you free bitcoin doing the things you do every day in a form. It's familiar with with this new debit card. In from there, we can connect you to all these other amazing services to. Experience the full breadth of of being in holding Bitcoin, and so this could be things like. How can we allow you in? Connect you to somewhere to buy Bitcoin to a whole story? BITCOIN potentially earn on that Bitcoin, and so we're really now. Trying to the full debit card is really going to be the anchor for a much broader fold. Fold experience that provides the same services that you could expect from other incumbent exchanges, but number one is only focused on bitcoin has the incentives that is paying you out every time you use it, and has none of the high friction points that are normally associated with exchanges, and so were excited to provide a new way to be introduced to Bitcoin. Wow. That's phenomenal Deviating little bit away from fold again for a minute I. Mean I think we've got the picture of what you do in there, but there's something we don't talk about too much over here on crippling on podcast, and that's the lightning network, so I wanted to take this opportunity to pick your brain because I know you've got some experience and knowledge about that. Is that correct? Yeah we are, we've been very active in the lightning community and have seen a lot of success from it to it so happy to talk about that awesome, so I let out of a very very broad definition. What is the lightning network? And how's it coming along? What does it do? So the lightning network was created to enable instantaneous and low fee transactions using bitcoin. And so you can think of. Lightning network as a layer that sits on top of the BITCOIN network. Preserves the core principles of Bitcoins of censorship, resistance, permission list access, and allows you to access new quality of it so instant transactions and Lo fi which are impossible on the on the based chain. And so lightning network is really there to open up a bar. More use cases and utility to bitcoin network overall. What it allows is instantaneous transactions in a retail setting similar to what you'd expect from a credit card. It allows instant. Settlements maybe used by exchanges, so you don't have to wait ten minute times instead it's instant and so really it's supercharging. bitcoin and fold is used it and was always interested in it, because it's so appropriate for folds use case of everyday use and spending it matches the profile of credit card transaction would feel like except it's using bitcoin. while are without sacrificing any of the important qualities of of core Bitcoin, which is you know some of the things that I mentioned earlier open to everyone accessible but also with a high security model and so lightning network is really here. supercharge the layer, Elaine enable new use new use cases. You'll see in full. That's how we transact with. Our retail partners is via the lightning network. Wow that's amazing, so lighting networks works really started to get some mass adoption. Would you say or do you think it's still in its infancy? I tend to believe that the despite how much. Progress has been made in the last year. with lightning alone I still think we are in the earlier stages There's great infrastructure being built out. lightning network has a different design model. It has a different different use cases that really the infrastructure may not have fully been been baked out yet, and so what you're seeing right now. It was an immediate explosion of lightning. applications that came out. Out because the core lightning protocol is solid and is ready for a for actual everyday use. Now the what's happening seeing as the on ramps into lightning, the services built on top of it, maturing in once those mature, the incentives aride the designers right? That's when you see. These networks begin to Saturate, so we've made a ton of progress. I'm even more excited about the future. Wow that's incredible. What are some other features that you think are still needed to help bitcoin move around the world, a little bit faster I, know that the collapse of our banking system and monetary system around the world right now is really helping bitcoin become the essential business that it was meant to be, but what else do you see like the needs like what's the next step of our infrastructure evolution? So you know I really think the main chokepoints bitcoin around the world are primarily. Around a custody. An on ramps and the custody part from the likes of. unchained capital Casa has made some incredible strides. So how do you hold insecure bitcoin right? There's no concept of a third party holding for you unless you're using an exchange or custodial law, which is not the true way to use Bitcoin, but they're there. They serve a function, and so the custodial part making non-custodial, just as easy justice, safe and secure as as custodial I think that parody will be reached shortly and then on the the other side. You have the on ramps, which to me are the most exciting. This is really how do you make it easier for people to move in and out of Bitcoin from their native currency, and there's been some great progress from people specifically in the lightning community You have a companies like Escher, wire, strike, and many others that are making this process, really seen seamless for people for consumers and merchants to move in and out of Bitcoin very very simply and I think that's really important to do. Because number one the more we more on and off ramps we have the more resistant bitcoin is at the application layer to any shutdowns, but it also. Creates, more and more ways. Of making it easy to actually get your hands on and off. which is historically not been that easy? Yes really well said. There's just a few more questions that I wanted to ask you before we let you run off. I was really curious about fold insights. If you don't mind sharing, do you see any correlation between downloads and people? You know saving the sats that they make on fold with the price of Bitcoin, or is it just you know people are really just always holding onto it, or they always trying to cash out into cash. What are you seeing in terms of correlations? Now so what we really interesting behaviors that we've seen with with fold. Over the past several months is that people have? almost begun a dollar cost averaging into bitcoin with their spending so just as you might say, I want to invest a couple of dollars in bitcoin every day, and you know that's all I'm going to increase my bitcoin stash. People Salmon a useful the little bit every day. an increase, my bitcoin stash there and so the cool thing is is number one. They get to slowly. accumulate bitcoin at prices that Not during a highs and lows that aren't emotionally driven, but it's more just. Kind of past doing the background and we do see on days when mark when bitcoin price goes down that that the purchases unfold. Go Up, and that's because see that as cheap sat. So you're fifty, your or percent back in Amazon is suddenly worth a lot more in stats than it was the day before when it was on a high and so we absolutely see people. Start to stack at that point. That's why I love to say is that? True, Hodler's corners. They don't care if the price goes down or goes up. Both are mutually beneficial for them. Yeah very well said. Besides what you're doing over there at fold and the lightning network. What's one company you think is going to have the greatest impact on the crypto space? Maybe a strange answer, but I'd say the Federal Reserve. Interesting. I think as money as money. Printer continues to burn I. Think read the very beginning of it that will begin to create an and solidified the case in a wider audience minds about money itself, and there are different types of money in this world, in which one maybe as better or more aligned with their own self. Interest I mean you saw today there. There was a big opinion of Bloomberg. That's said straight up. Money is losing its meaning, and it is you. We are going to feel this more and more in the bull case for Bitcoin is actually becoming real and I don't think there's a better context bitcoin to be tested in to prove its worth in the current conditions. We see and so I. I Believe the largest driver of that. Will be the Federal Reserve making that counterpoint to us. That is really interesting I never even thought of that, but you're. You're really right. Because bitcoin supply is fixed as we all know. and. When people! Are Printing money. That means the prices are gonNA, go up, we're GONNA experience inflation. So not only I mean. We're always wondering into wins. Bitcoin at twenty, thousand, fifty, thousand, one, hundred thousand. I mean. Even if it stays at its current value, I mean just the cause of inflation in the US. Dollar can cause the price of Bitcoin to rise so this is just one other aspect that we didn't even think of. But we do have the having coming up. BITCOIN has unusually changed its course, and it's correlation is now sitting with S. and P. Five hundred, and for the first time we've seen. News? That has nothing to do with crypto. That's macroeconomic. I like. BITCOIN is no longer like its own little side ecosystem. It's now completely integrated with the rest of the world and the economy I think that Neville Lucien is probably going to be the biggest takeaway of twenty twenty. And that's just something that is just beginning right now I. Don't know how long it's GonNa last, but we had a really amazing conversation with Joshua Frank the tie. WHO WAS Talking about this sentiment stuff, and even the sentiment now people doing searches and talking on social media. There's now a correlation between Bitcoin and the stock market. So this is really really. A crazy thing that I never thought would happen. You know. People started to look at. Why is it? It shouldn't be correlated on correllated or await its act in correlated in that part of my response to this is that. Bickering in the Bitcoin community, we were constantly trying to make our case to the rest of the world. This is why Bitcoin is great yet. We constantly come up with all these different narratives of why the end of the day most people who are first hearing about it don't get that full picture, and they try to fit it into their existing mental models, and so for most people. It's Oh my God. My friend made some money on Bitcoin. I need to get some bitcoin number. Go Up. More people get in and I also thank will put bitcoin in the same mental model as they would stocks as well and so you start to see people. Use It just like they would stock. Even though it doesn't have to be and so I think more and more, you'll see the the correlation start to drift, and it will be increasingly uncoordinated, but I think it makes perfect sense than in a time of crisis and unexpected pandemic comes in that it makes sense that people are number one searching for cash, and they're going to get by selling their stocks selling their bitcoin, whatever it is to get it, but they'll start to realize the as the as the correlation begins to Fade the true value of Bitcoin. So I think there's a little bit of lack of information amongst the markets people are. Acting in treating assets in many ways that they don't ask to or need to be just because they fit in existing mental model, but I I truly think that we will you know the case for Bitcoin will not be made by Bitcoin. IRS will be made by everyone else and what we do with the existing legacy financial system. Yeah a hundred percent, right? and let's let's move on to just a couple of closing questions now. This has been great conversation. Will I wish we could talk all day, but we have to Get back to work at some point. Who's one person that you admire in the CRYPTO space? One person the I mean. There's so many I I mean I love the. On the ones that I admire and their two counts points, someone specific is the individual person who dedicates time to writing about Bitcoin You know not just shouting about on twitter, but like really putting deep thought into it, producing new pieces that add to the cannon of what of this asset and so this is I, guess a shout out to the plebs everywhere who who can distribute this great dearth of content around that is there to onboard other people. and then I'll go all the way up the stack and I'll say I i. think that Jet Jackson Jack Dorsey approach to all of this both from his product decisions to his personal decisions in his personal advocacy. A powerful powerful force in Bitcoin that should not be underestimated in that that helps all other companies working in the space, and they give his incredible signal. For the rest of the world, absolutely very very well said, and then the final question we have for you will, if this is the first podcast someone getting into the bitcoin space heard. What would you want them to know? I want 'em snow to. Take it slow that this process takes awhile. When money is perhaps the most fundamental piece of human relationships in interactions that we have. It's the physical manifestation of how we relate to to to people around us and questioning that providing a new model to that is a big deal it is. It is questioning gravity to some extent and so once bitcoin and I think, aren't they? Has It is that there is another world that can? Can Be that operates according to different set of physics that is a big and steep learning curve, and so I say maintain a curiosity and maintain a value system of what world do you want to live in and can bitcoin help you get there and stay curious about that question, because it will be yes, and no, and yes, and no, and finally you'll find your place at A. Down the rabbit hole, but be patient. I think that's great. Advice and something that I was thinking of recently. Is People. Are Terrified, absolutely petrified. Of admitting that they were wrong or that, they got taken advantage of. I think that's a big thing that keeps people from getting involved in Bitcoin and being kept in cash as want to feel like they tried something new, and then they were soccer, and then they lost. But I think now the the flip. The script is flipped. In the US dollar, the Almighty dollar, the world reserve currency for our whole lives. And in two thousand eight, and now again, it's proven that it's GonNa. Let us down and the people in charge of it are letting us down. And I feel like. It's okay to say. That? We got burned by the US dollar. Because now there is an alternative. And bitcoin is that alternative in safe sound money that you can build your future upon? And I think there's a lot of people are generation that feel that way. But I just wanted to say to all our listeners out there. Don't worry about your pride to worry about getting hurt. It's okay to take chances and just be curious and learn like we'll recommend it. And if you don't want to invest any money into it. That's okay, because there's the foldout and you can earn bitcoin just from doing what you already do, so we'll thank you so much for your time today. Where can the good citizens of crypt nation reach out to you and get the fold up? So, you can go to fold APP. you can sign up for the card. You can download full old. West's or place stores on there and give me a shout out. I'm at W. L. R. V. S. on twitter and let me know if you got questions. Fantastic. Thank you so much well. We look forward to chatting with you next time. Great great to be here.

US bitcoin starbucks CEO and Co founder Bryce SEC twitter Aaron Ben Amazon Solar farm KYC Knicks soccer Federal Reserve
Chris Sheldrick CEO of What3Words - Voicebot Podcast Ep 138

The Voicebot Podcast

1:04:30 hr | 7 months ago

Chris Sheldrick CEO of What3Words - Voicebot Podcast Ep 138

"This is episode one. Thirty eight of the voiced by podcast. I guess today's Chris Sheldrick. Ceo and CO founder of. What three words? Welcome back voiced by nation. This is your host Brett. Consult with another amazing guests this week. Today we are talking applications that are ideal for voice. I URA skills and actions aren't the only way for you to have an impact is a developer. What three words provides a perfect example of a solution? That is even better with voice. If you don't know what what three words is. Stay tuned for Chris sheldrakes introduction to the company. It's a replacement for GPS for everyday addresses. And that's for places like houses businesses or the middle of the field and a remote jungle location. It's a brilliant idea that could work in Tex- driven world but becomes the type of solution that can quickly achieve mass adoption when you add voice recognition into the equation. My guest today is Chris Sheldrick. He's the CEO and Co founder of. What three words? We talk about the solution. The recent successes with automakers his Mercedes and todd tie getting started with their first customer which was in wait for it Mongolia. We also discussed recent fundraising and where he expects the company to expand to next. Chris isn't your most likely startup founder. For Tech Company on a global scale. He didn't emerge from Stanford's engineering department but instead has a degree in music from King's College London the Royal Academy of Music and a background is a manager for musicians. Was that experience with spurred the idea. For what three words now? He is operating at the intersection of Global Transportation Invoice. Let's get started. Okay voiced by. I Have Chris Sheldrick who is the CO founder and CEO? Of what three words for today? Chris Welcome to the voice about podcast. Thanks Brett great to be here while I'm thrilled to have. You is great for us to finally get a chance to meet in person it. Cas this year. I've met some of your colleagues some of the on the conference circuit. I guess we would say But it was really nice that we're able to not only meat but have An extended conversation which we'RE GONNA pick up here today it's it's ready and Enjoyed meeting a CS And pleased that you've seen US around the world in various places. Yes we definitely been saying. Well it's interesting because it's not obvious that what three words would be at the intersection of voice technology. Because I don't think that's where you started although there's clear overlap so maybe what you can do is describing this for the listeners. Today tell them briefly. What what three words does a high level? And then how you see it. Enter interacting or overlapping with the frenzy around. Voice Technology today. Sure so we'll three was is a global address system and We kinda came up with the idea because I had got lost for many years When I was running my music business or more accurately or the musicians who worked for me lost Trying to find venues around the world and so I was trying to get people not to use the address for places because you know gate full. Be AT THE STADIUM. Doesn't have an address or the villa. Halfway Upper Mountain doesn't have an address the points to the right place so I tried to sort of Force PEOPLE TO USE LATITUDE. Longitude coordinates so typing in an eight digit last chewed comma plus minus eighty longitude. I'm saying let's just use this. Avoid the addresses And I guess the problem was sounds great in theory but Your average person is just not very good at typing. A witness into devices 'cause. Gps devices watches. Whatever they're going to use And so I kind of abandoned this and I spoke to a mathematician friend of mine. I'm like how can we come up with a way of compressing sixteen digits of GPS coordinates into something? Which is really Shuman Friendly Easy to remember. Easy communicate But it's way less scientific and complicated and we. Kinda came up with this idea that if you break the wealth down into three meter squares who says Fifty seven trillion if those around the world. And then you can name each square with three words from the dictionary so something like table. Chess Bugno coffee. Banana Pyramid There's literally enough combinations of three dictionary. Words that you can uniquely name the fifty seven hundred and three meets in the world and we count it just kind of sounded just exactly what I wanted. Which was something which anything from anyone from oil to grandparent's could use you know you can get your pet round table spoon and it was just infinitely easier than trying to kind of go around the membrane and influencing GPS coordinates. So that's basically what the system is and does and I guess the the the really easy way to try to go onto a website with rewards with words APP. You can find the three. We've named the front door fuel house wheel the back door Literally everybody's already been pre assigned. You can't change them And that is what the system is is just a global system to simplify communicating location. Right and the obvious overlap with voice then is that you can speak those words. As opposed to trying to type out tablespoon pyramid exactly. So if I say to you right now table chest spoon you could go onto the with rewards APP and type in tablespoon and then suddenly we both looking at the same three meter square in the world And and that's very straightforward. So I guess you you're right. The application for voice is to people just talking to each other or it can be person talking to a machine new car or watch or anything which accepts a voice input and then suddenly you just open yourself up to basically the way that we actually converse and interact normally as people which is still predominantly three voice right and the other thing that I always thought was interesting that I learned this the hard way going in the mountains in in West Virginia. Is that even if you were to use? Gps coordinates some applications present that data different ways and so we had corners. I remember one format and we assist in another format. We could actually get to where we needed to go. Yeah I mean you've got It's kind of a technical a decimal degrees degrees minutes seconds and then hybrid version which is half of one half of the other helicopter pilots us. So yeah even if you're EPS. Gordon Fan Still a bunch of complexity that in terms of what the next person is using and then here in the UK actually national grid system which people tend to use if they're gonNA use coldness Which is again something totally different. So I think I mean what you always risk if you say Existing stands on quite writes I'M GONNA make a new universal standard. Naturally you just complicate it further because you paid another standard the northern on if he's however I think on a sufficiently different like there was literally no other system that uses words The we just kind of out there on our road in a way which I don't think causes confusion but the total simplicity if it makes Life easier so I mean just as a non Dislike non-voice machine example. But this is a voice person example here in the UK when you call nine nine nine nine one in the states for an emergency In over seventy percent of the country now you can actually give the three would address of where you off to the ambulance service. Police will find service And they will then be able to type that into their system. No way you need help. And this is usually daily basis ring. People getting injured in forests even by the coast used by the Coast Guard And this is just simply Eichel number. I'm like give it to somebody else. And he's on the other end the phone now. People assume that you'll you'll coordinates device can just be transmitted electronically that does happen sometimes but actually very rarely and normally that interaction when you're in an emergency and time is totally pressing with still kind of using. Oem sort of left at the bend in the road. And then I must be at the gate of bit further forward And that's really really important series use case When things go wrong if you're relying on addresses postcode ZIP codes so just by simply speaking those three words. We're making a huge impact on emergency services here in the UK. I guess just by the way that we would designed an the joke that really resonated with me I will say that. Just the story about like and we can talk about entrances and other in other aspects of buildings in cities. Is You know perplexing problem for anybody. Who's a traveler as meetings in different places but when you mentioned emergency services I was immediately thinking of my experience in the mountains because I go to a lot of rural areas were back trails and if someone gets injured and you need assistance? It's really hard to say. Okay we're on. The orange blazed trail about six tenths of a mile up from the intersection with the blue trays blazed trail up five miles from the parking or trail. Had at your route. Seventy or something like that and that's nearly impossible for a rescue service figure out unless they're really familiar with that trail system. It's almost impossible for them. Find Him so then what you if like. You're with one other person. You actually have to leave that person to go meet and find the rescue personnel and come back and I think a lot of people think oh. This is a way for cab drivers to more easily. Get you to your destination which it is May Be easier to get into a building but we think about these places. They have no address. I think I think you have the story about Mongolia. Correct that were were they address. Was that your first big yen. But that's right. That was a federal government deal in Mongolia And you are the low countries which just never developed their address systems tool in the UK us. We're relatively lucky. In at least the towns and cities have got address systems that we can. We can use pretty well But Mongolia somewhere with us never happened If you if you speak to people in Mongolia they were necessarily know their street address in the same way and so I was invited to go there and to meet with the National Postal Service and You know what we found is that of course that then really struggling to actually deliver mail when people put Confetti ambiguous addresses on and they instantly said look. This is three would address system. Could really help us. You have to do it. In Mongolian non-english Missouri Mongolian is is now one of the foresee languages that we support And and then now the national pace ammonia there will deliver mail to three addresses and sort of ecosystem grew so we would then added by the lonely planet guide so all of the all of the locations in Mongolia and the Lenny Planet Guide. Now have a three would address tag even the biggest bank in Mongolia Con Bank of added specific box on their application. For where you put your three would address in so they can actually send you a credit card to the right place. So yeah it's it's a staggering amounts of the world among just just one example. We working in so many countries Where there's just no real infrastructure a tool around addresses but still in the developing world where addresses work in towns and cities rural areas still. Ready H- really have appropriate. I live on a farm in harsher. Where only an hour from London? But it's just house named Plus village name We have delivery drivers driving around all day. Long you know it's nice now. twenty twenty and it hasn't changed a tool from ten twenty years. Ago was the same same thing. I'm I'm sure the same as the sure things at the same in the. Us So Yeah a lot of the world has a problem which just doesn't seem to have been fixed until now And I guess we think look. We've made a solution which can do. But but if you think about it is because I think because we're still using a very legacy system from a long time ago. I mean street address were admitted while the fifteen hundred sixteen hundreds for people circle to register where they lived into deliver mail. If you're starting from scratch today you would not name fourteen roads in London all church road and have this kind of duplication so I guess getting to voice you speak a church road London to voice device and it's going well I don't know which one you mean And if you say things like to forty first street do I mean to forty three or to forty first street with these things. Which if you're designing things now you would take into consideration. But I'm pretty sure in the sixteenth century. This was no on people's minds. So yeah it's one of the only legacy pieces of tech with really using in Ancona Teddy Basis and we've designed what three words four twenty twenty And I think people were like that. I do really like the demonstration. You show or the image you show of what you get when you ask for like forty two church Church street or fourteen Church Street. I don't remember what it has blunted. And you just get you get this whole list like in the car of all these different destinations of which they just say the beginning of Church Street. And that's it. You can't actually differentiate which one is which yet that's it because because cost. I necessarily put the Post Code We're lucky to have a postcode if you try the same thing in other countries where your postcode is John. Yarmuth says no help you either But of course not say if you owe the call trying to work with voice and you've just got the data you've got you're GONNA have to produce a pretty sub-standard experience for the user Because you underlying data's by you can have the best. Us is on his in the world. But if if the way. The address is configured Is Not optimal there is not much you can do about that. So yeah you're right. I think on our Youtube Channel. We go some examples of what it's like trying to say addresses which vague and how devices and caused pretty much struggled to do anything with it and I should mention that while you're while you're talking about table chair spoon I just typed it into what three words I found that it's in the middle of a field near Newcastle Airport and north of England. Heck and so challenge any voice by listeners in the UK to do is go rendezvous there with a friend at some point and send us a picture. That would be awesome for you to do that. Not Expecting anybody will actually do it but it would be sort of fun jazzy spoon. Yeah exactly exactly I actually. There was another one that you'd mentioned to me. I think about Central Park in New York. People like to meet there and they're like where do we need and they have these locations? You can just give them the three word meters. Say I'm sitting here come find me and So there's so many practical applications of this that That I think people would normally even expect. I'm sure a lot of them. You discovered as you started getting into the developing the product. Talking to people about it. Yeah I think that's when we first came up with the idea. We knew that address didn't because I'd had this personal firsthand knowledge traffic world for ten years and just finding issues in every country. Wendy but I think what she starts really delve into it and go right wet weather things break you just find example after example off for example. I mean there's there's a stat that they're six hundred thirty. Two streets could who are as in Mexico City now. I haven't been to Mexico City. That's not why we invented what three words. But obviously we saw looking into this. This is a this is an example which comes off. I think the worst in the world for like stress duplication But yeah it. It's something that wherever we go. We explain what we do and we say. Hey there's a problem with addresses everybody's got anecdote whether it's trying to find their aunt's house or where? They grew up where they were when they lived in Central America year. Of Everybody's GonNa Story Going Ha. You could never find X. so I think it's a problem with that kind of resonates absolutely now. I would think that the people who might even benefit most from this would be delivery services like DHL ups Fedex Amazon but those haven't really been the first adopters. It's it's been postal services. I think ought automobiles so so tell me Lake? Let's let's start there. Let's talk about the delivery services. Why have they not just embraces? Or maybe they are and I'm just not aware of it. It's it's an interesting one and and see why it's one of the things the most logical to start with I think the thing to remember is that what was it like an ecosystem so so everyone who says to us. It's like a chicken You know great system if everyone uses it But you always need to policies you need someone to share a three would address And find it on the APP when somebody to actually use it And this the ecosystem nasty gets a bit more complicated once you start looking at deliveries because most of the time you've got somebody like a an ECOMMERCE website which actually receives the address from the customer. They will then pass that information to the delivery service which is normally different company and even that delivery service might also have another delivery service by the time it actually gets to the door and so we need to orchestrate all of those people in that chain to be using what three words so that if the customer the end customer says his three would address from my house the absolutely show. That's going to get all the way through and we now have finally cracked that market. We've got Retailers like in South Africa The ice tool. So if you buy an product you bought from From the store. And there's a books as you're checking out at lost you for your conventional address And then there is a book saying put your three would address in here And it's a little kind of widget will make sure you've types it correctly. And then that three would address is passed to that delivery service who will then find your front door and of course once you get going with one. We've now go other retailers. In South Africa another one could discounts on my chemist where they have it on the checkout page two and so on and so on what we're now doing is bringing that same ecosystem into to Europe in the US and other markets What I think we've found easier is when we integrate with businesses or platform. Where it's just them that we integrate with so for example mercedes-benz 'cause they of course just have total control over the experience in the call so they were very keen to integrate whilst rewards. And they've done it for tec- search and for voice edge so if you type the three words you speak into the call. It will now navigate to that destination Which is amazing and of course a huge brand for us to be working with but it was simpler because they owned that entire experienced. I think that's what we've learned. Is this a healthy balance? We we spend some time. Didn't even complexities of the delivery wells. But then the welded Volta Motive Mobility. You're normally just dealing with Right so it seems to me. There's like there's three categories of parties. Here there's one that are you're talking about like Mercedes or the delivery Van. So they're going to They're going to utilize this. There's then there's the the locations which would want you'd want them to publish their preferred. What three words address entry door delivery? Doc whatever it might be and you've got general consumers who could be those people transporting themselves or could be asking someone else to do transportation and it seems to me that the that those are the two weak links 'cause there's so many locations and you have to educate all of the location owners to say. Hey this is what what three words is. This is how you use it and this is what we want you to publish. And there's so many consumers. Obviously who then? You need to develop awareness around so this sounds like the type of thing where awareness might at this point. Be The bigger barrier than the technology yet. That's right You'll you'll split on awareness if the system if everybody's aware and can be people platforms Then than anything is possible on the side side Really yet what three? What is like a behavioral Products Br more certain anything else. And yes. There's some says some good and and very clever tech the POWs everything But it's the case of as soon as you get everybody using the platform then. That's where it's at. Its most powerful. I think here in the UK especially with emergency services pushing it out nationwide. We've kind of got to that point now where it's just everyone's very aware of That you speak to everyone Melissa used it for something most likely And we kind of just getting to be something that people talk about every day The key for us now is scaling into other Mockus Right. So is that the way you believe. This will ultimately generate awareness is through some of these government services have clear benefit and you sort of fit into the model that they're you're they're trying to put out into the market or are you looking at national advertising campaigns television commercials a social media to drive awareness. I say what you mean so I think whichever country working and it has always been a different thing for each country What we try to do is work with Paul on this. You have a much bigger base than US so in the UK. Emergency services that actually ran the campaign To run awareness for three was in Germany. It's a lot of it's come from Sadi's Benz because they have a huge user base Immediately reach And even in the US we were actually featured on episode of NCIS as a kind of subplot You know when somebody was kind of a hidden of law started that happen. Yeah I mean to be honest I I'm not sure I think we would just sort of told that we were going to be on an episode of NCIS And and they knew about us and it had written into the story so But at the great thing is of course a lot of people watch ncis and it's much more effective. I think than us taking on the world doing consumer advertising one by one which would be phenomenally expensive for us to try and do that. I think just because we'll three words is always. It's always like a plug into make someone else's products better than therefore there's a lot of incentive for that company to to educate that uses about why they filled with wasn't So you know. That's that's from postal services in London Planet doing advertising to Mercedes to appearing on NCIS But I the way that is all established model. That is really working for US. Is If we as the plug in. That makes something else better and on that platform want to talk about it. Then everybody benefits. It makes sense in automotive. Seems like an obvious place because navigation being one of the two or three top use cases within the car and they have a captive audience that they're going to continually be marketing. So let's talk about this. You had Mercedes. I think you signed up another Several other automakers. Let's talk a little bit about where you're progresses there in that front. She'll say the one which is gone live very recently as Tautou maters are which is the biggest comic in India and India is one of the countries with the least-developed address systems outside the major cities. So I think taught so a very keen to follow a Mercedes footsteps in get through as an eighties. Voice is the key reason that they've done it The comic is a very frustrated of people ignoring That you know wonderful navigation infotainment systems and they just stick their phone on the on the dashboard. Saying look you know we. We should be able to build experience in the car where people want us. They should just be able to use the native experience in the call. We can do a good job on that so I think all of them are thinking. The voice is the key driver people they WANNA be twisting that dial anymore to input stuff letter by letter You should just to talk to the car. And I think that you know walls that was tech around being out of play music and this kind of thing we just came along at the right time with very slick voice navigation products To End to that destination that worked incredibly well for women's eighty one into a Mercedes was so far ahead of the curve. I mean there was two years ago that they announced the NBA Voice Assistant And radio the other car companies only playing catch up now the brilliant work and then you system where with each And we now being rolled out and more and more languages as well so not just in English. It's it's not a straightforward for Voice of this text to do additional languages but a lot of the suppliers we work with Have been incredibly helpful To get what he was working invoice. And aside from the comic is we've also just released our first motorcycle integration with triumph which goes huge brands In motorcycles. So that they now have an APP where you can Npr destination the reaching and it actually displays on the motorcycle itself So that it's oversee con- you can't use an APP while you're writing so I think just for from all points of view just more and more of these partners Who SAYING WE SUPPORT? What three words and the whole ultimate to sector. I think is looking at what we're doing as they all try to work out how they fit in with voice and can actually start to own that experience themselves and give them meaningful experience specific to that brand Hopefully what three were this scene By all of the automakers as a must have integration. Yeah the try and it's not surprising. Mercedes was first on this because I agree with you. They tend to be ahead of just about everybody else. There's a couple other auto brands that are doing equally interesting things but Mercedes has a particularly sophisticated approach to how they've thought about this and and you know part of it too is. I really like you. The way you characterized it. Is that the auto grants are all trying to maintain some control over the in-car experience and they're they've been encroached upon by the mobile device experiences. Which are then trying to take over. The car experienced To create consistency throughout the consumer day but by integrating something. Like what three words? It's it's yet just another reason why they might use. Hey Mercedes. Mb WAX IS OPPOSED TO HAVING APPLE. Carplay plugged in the whole day. Yeah and I think this is kind of an interesting time in that whole Weld moment I mean I I saw. I saw yesterday surgeons As a as a new to announce Ari- had had launched a service or are launching a service. Where you may not have to remember exactly whether you ask Siri for this or Alexa for this Or even seren soil or the car brand to do a particular service because this is going to get confusing for the user. The driver sitting in the car. You've got to remember. Maybe you'll kind of Service naval skill name. And then you've got to remember which of the voice providers and then do this all in one utterance That that is going to be a headache for people who are doing these multiple integration. So I think everyone in this world is trying to think I will. How can I be sort of flexible enough to give the drivers all of the things they might want to access? But actually if if I'm the one in control of the experience how do we make our own brand Kind of relevant and make sure that they keep wanting to access services from our brand And that's something that you know. They've they've got to figure out I think from our perspective The key is just to make sure that whichever voice service you're using that you can use. Both Ray was an unusual. Three would address is if a second nature. We don't want to have to be thinking you know if you had into a rental car does this whole doesn't support what three words We just want to be a kind of a default to the industry. I guess right just the service that gets called regardless of what the interfaces exactly exactly. Yeah and and the announcement from Sheri- This week was around their new cognitive arbitrator. That's and coldness yes. Yeah and this is something they've been working on for some time so I've been aware of this And just to give people a perspective. We now have multiple voice systems. In fact I think. Let's my counted and buicks. You can actually access four different assistance at any given time In some cars you have to choose which you can only do one channel or another If one's active you can't use the other these types of things and so it's it's kind of confusing particularly sense. Things like Syria through car. Play or Google assistant through android auto can't control in car features and we have this combination of projection technologies in. Dash and all these other things and so the arbitrator concepts is a good one. And it's it's where essentially we take a less than optimal system that we might have like a lot of people in the industry listening to this. Podcast would say which one voice assistant is really prominent people in this industry that there should only be one voice assistant and because it's better for the user but it's not trending that way we're we're going to see multiple assistance in there's going to be variety out there in so we see this time and again whereas technology that figures out a way to reduce that front end complexity by creating some sort of funneling effect and then have an arbitrator a router of some sort that goes to the right back end service and so that's essentially for people have haven't seen as you can just ask the voice system use whatever language you want and then it will select which assistant can would properly respond and basically turns all the assistants into services and then it's sort of optimize based on what your preferences are and what you're trying to accomplish. So that's that's I. Guess the ninety seconds summary of what an arbitrator is in and the car is one of the places where it's particularly important because there's multiple services operating simultaneously. Yep that's that's absolutely right and I guess one thing I just wanted to add bread about What was in 'cause because you know this? This whole operation praises. I guess at the back end is getting incredibly complicated as to walk goes to WHO and how the requests of paused and Ann Lewis. Kind of thing On the other hand what three words is actually incredibly simple thing to integrate Predominant because we just do one thing and we're all always sort of often tempted by people saying well. Maybe it could do this or maybe it could be more granular and could add words or numbers and we sort of Richard. He kept and said look. Actually we're very happy with the system designed as it is. And so all you're really doing is transcribing the three words and then using intelligent context to to work out what the USA meant So if I can put unreasonable terms We designed the system based on the fact that voice recognized as no perfect So let's say table chess spoon. I think he said it was also You'll probably find things like tables jazz piano table chess spoons. Or you know the social variance of that. We try and put one in Australia. One in Mexico. one in Sweden. So if the voice is unsure of what you said because of this kind of similar sounding things it simply looks at your location and if you know if I'm in London and then. The two results is dishonest ones in London ones in Sydney Australia. It's pretty confident. Especially if his navigation that I want to go in London Now that's an over simplification of of what we do But uses often sit decade. This will three West than kind of just works all the time with voice and they think that we're doing some incredibly complicated a Esau recognition thing. Actually we didn't do any recognition of tool we need to to the guys like Alexa Insurance and everybody. We just designed the system to place similar sounding words so far apart the little bit of context. really helps you so. I if anyone is interested like challenge that the best thing you can do is on. The Wall threw adapt. There's a microphone in the search bar and just search for three would address like in your hometown or in your area and I guess we'll try and break it so just by you can just do it time and time again and see how it gets on and The hope result is basically always right and I think that's something that we're also keen to highlight. Is that in a world where I think the studies you know. They say the people just frustration frustration. With how voice works call it. The accuracy is not good it doesn't recognize and then people sort of us at once and give up with us. We just want to highlight. It basically works every time and if we can be that thing that they use for navigation where they just rely on voice To to get it right. I think that's what will actually induce the behavior change as we put a good system and it's very accurate in terms of geographically. Acura the fact that it works by voice Time and time again I think is what will actually get behavior changing people. Yeah it makes. It makes complete sense to me. I I think the thing that comes to mind based on what you're talking about too is I think I recall you. Have your colleagues saying how many hominids you've removed from the dictionary? Yeah we've made a lot of hominids And in fact when I think back to when we first made the English version of me with now we have a fulltime languages team Who who work on USA. We just don't Hindi we recruit Lots and lots of Hindi speakers will vote on every word that we use hoop back women doing English. I was one of the word list reviews and I was looking in and stare at this word. Like tape on. I'm like not a homonym like can I still this another way like your hair in here? Where where and and this kind of really interesting thing to have to interrogate yourself is each word. You're looking at home. And but yes we take it really seriously because we want to make sure that any of that ambiguity is removed. In terms of words that are identical identically sounding But there are of course. Loss of words that are that are sort of similar But you can get round not just by spacing them so far away that you don't have worry too much that's right. How many words are in the system right now? So for the whole world in English where we cover the land in the ocean. We use forty thousand words and forty thousand Keith Sixty Treaty and so that gives you a combinations to cover the fifty seven trillion. Three me But in all of the other languages where we just covered the land on Earth. We only use twenty five thousand words because we figured just wasn't necessary to keep redoing the ocean in every language And then we kind of optimize it a little bit further so we say well look you know if if you're a Japanese speaker You know we. We would put the most common and the shortest Japanese words in Japan. Where you've got the most Japanese speakers and then in the Brazilian rainforest you probably go some of the more complicated Japanese words so actually when people using the system. They're probably based on. Your wealthy will likely to be using words that they will find. Come naturally to them Because the whales such a big place so with a little bit of optimization around that kind of logic you can actually get a very good experience by language. Well languages have you come across a few words for the system to work Interesting We. We actually have always managed to launch And we've always found the twenty five thousand Sometimes we kind of get to twenty four thousand And a bit. And then we have to go back to the linguist that we recruit because they'll be Dell just sort of long words That don't appear in the kind of normal dictionaries that you start with. I'm trying to think if something in English maybe like reestablishing or you know re harmonizing all or something that you know just by adding these kind of reduce or d this They all words but they're just something which may not appear in the original dictionary so we always find a way of getting to twenty five thousand and of course you probably put those either You know in a Russian forest all the Amazon Rainforest Somewhere where there's no a lot of people and his unlikely to be used. But but if you were there then you'd be quite happy saying I'm rehome initiation cryptographic Cryogenic or something to that effect. So yeah it will work. And we've always managed to get that. Yes I I I understand. So of the forty thousand words use an English. How many Hominem did you wind up? Removing a thousand several thousand. I'll tell you what the biggest problem I she is is the UK us Variant spellings that you knocks you out so many words so you know analyze with an ESERA Z. that's the most basic. Then as as you look down the list there are so many all of the zing. Z- was zinc's at the end. You have to take out. Because if that S O Z. Difference between you can. Us So those are the worst for us I think he was probably accomplish. Thousand or a few thousand of the of the other ones but yeah UK. Us really dented. Award list I understand okay. So we talked about delivery. We talked about Automotive what are some other industries? That are adopting this so I would say I mean if you expand on automotive and take it into the whole autumn ability sphere Writing as a big one where everybody I can associate with The talk and find them or You go into it and you try to find where you're going and it just deposits you at some sort of random entrance to the building that you were going for and not the right place and so we've now got about eleven right hailing APP integrations Across the world Especially South and Latin America. Cabinet an easy taxi And it's very simple you. It's now just in the search bar so you can put if you'll pick up your drop-off And and then it will convert it to the three Meters Square. And of course that is far more precise and ready that the benefit for the users in the drop off because the pickup. If you'll just dropping a pin You can pretty much say. Pick me up from here but where we actually use addresses and writing heading is for the destination so just that ability to say where am I going and when I come to the state go to son Francisco and people might give me the the street address but then I'm always roaming these business parks. Somehow I'm kind of like struggling to actually find where I actually need to be. Not just where the address gave me so I think all across the world. We're finding the right heading up taking it out because it's such a popular complaint from the user. The writer going. My driver lost actually. It might just be because the the address was bad and not precise enough so I think writing is GonNa is just only gonNA grow for us and then I guess as the to sort of merge into the world of autonomous cars We've built being built in from scratch into a few of the of the brands that are coming out like all by local natives who was saying like right from the word go we putting all through words and because if I caused new steering wheel and pedals And it's just GonNa stop where the destination is it It better be right because if it's sort of If it's just on the main road or not quite in the right place That's a problem for everyone. If you just go to know tournaments call that suddenly stops Today it's kind of okay because we think well let's drive around the corner of as the entrance round there. We didn't mind that much but once I call a genuine it becomes autonomous. This is a whole problem. And everybody's going to have to get on board with an ultra precise system So I think yeah it's the whole world of ultimately from ability Which really is just getting stuck more and more stock with conventional addresses And then say outside. That will go ecommerce the just six a drone companies putting it in Because again like drones needs to go somewhere precise And if during delivery actually happens in in the consumer elicit the Frontcourt. Another bike garden Where the pinpoints to and you put an address in is often just on the roof in the middle which probably the place you'd least one the drain to actually go so again. We're GONNA have to stop using the and already are in fact even with voice android so people have raked it up so they can speak to their Alexa. Give give it two. Sets OF THREE WORDS IN. The drain will then navigate between these destinations. So that's kind of cool And then the travel weld. I guess it's kind of embracing everyone's now talking about how travel experiences Not About going Nice hotels but about going off in the middle of nowhere as the experience that everybody really really wants And getting around the middle of nowhere is complicated if you don't have addresses So it's not just lending planet it's also sort of in a just just backpackers and hikers and people who are often about all the time we find that we're just being used by them in a whole range of these kinds of APPs which is specific to those activities Or just by putting books and magazines for places to go so I think it's the whole breadth of those which is always what we intended for you if you WanNa make a standard which is what we will what what three was we wanted to be. You have to touch everything. The people think over the dresses. You can't ready focused on a sector as such you have to be there and enable to integrate across the board right now and I think I think I saw him. What of your announcements did you just do? Something with a hotel chain as well. Yeah that's it so I mean there's a couple so Kempinski hotels US through. Isn't it book and confirmations premiere in which is the UK's biggest hotel chain and now starting To use US and it's really because then they go so many hotels so successful? If you put the premier rainy Manchester it's probably about twenty different places. It could be and one of their popular complaints is I actually showed up at the wrong premier in That I worked because people get confused So so they'd like if that But believes just independent ones by airbnb hosts are using it because of that that's another classic example wears often off the beaten track And people are fleeing this sort of sprawling list of directions To get to their home whereas now they just put what three words and the three address into the into the booking section and not just save the whole hassle and the people have a better experience so yeah every everything across the accommodation sector Is putting us in one way or the other even like even in the UK. You got like councils who when people report fly tipping is that the same term in the states where people just sort of leave trash on roadside They even have it in the fly. Tipping form to submit where you saw something Which is a use case? We never ever envisaged When we started down but of course so this is about other citizens saying hey. Somebody dropped garbage in this location. Exactly which is sort of walk into the fly-tipping scene Y- you see all over the place on twitter The people do that. And that's a great way that they just communicate with the council And it surprises me. Hard to communicate location on the middle of the road over twitter. So people would just add this rewards there now. The council's of actually almost by user popular demand have added a section on the on the form on the website for what three words But yeah just because I guess the citizens demanding it But these are kind of just very quirky use cases which sort of made me smile to see people putting them in like this but we would never have put it in the business plan as as the Khanna talk initial sexes. Okay so we've talked about transportation services we've talked about transfer talked vehicles. We've talked about anything. That's location oriented. We've talked about government services which often have the need to get to places that might not have address is There's another component here too. Though that I believe is important to you and that's integration with navigation systems. Yeah I mean I think so. You know when we talk about 'cause integration into two thousand Mercedes the these are into the navigation systems And I guess you'll convocation system is actually competing with the major APPs on your phone For that experience for you to navigate for me to be and so yes and generally losing their competition to the absolutely and as to what we said Elliott people people The call come on. Stop shopping your phone onto your dashboard and just using that instead So of course in the same way that we're talking with the call companies. We want to be in those big few navigation apps that you've got on your phone And we making inroads there so in South Korea The predominant one is cooked up Which is a household name there And you can. You can navigate what was already into account map And we all of course in talks with all of the major navigation players to actually being there so today if you use what three words you go to the wealth rewards app you putting a three. What address Speak it type. It and then you press navigate and it would expose you if you'd like to Google App aways or whatever your preferred navigation. App is so you can still do it. It's just not as slick as if we were integrated directly into those APPS Mostly you're doing essentially you've you've a way to do a translation. Yes like a hand off to that to their up ex-soviet we translates into the coordinates. Then we handoff to that they're up to let you navigate so people can still do it and have a great experience it. I just think people don't want to hand off between APPS. Ideally they'd rather have US integrated directly into those consumer ups. Okay so if if I'm someone who's interested in this and I'm researching online and it might seem to me like what three words the only company doing at that this could lend itself to a natural monopoly But I think Google also got something along these lines. Don't they Right so that's been a few people over the last. Let's say twenty years ever since. Gps devices came out People have been thinking about Making Simpler address systems or coordinate systems. Actually when we started out we didn't know this And you know we found out about the middle of the way And how generally people have tried to solve this issue of sixty numbers too long is that they've invented Alpha numeric codes. Because with you can do it with few alphanumeric characters around nine or ten. You can name every few meters in the world uniquely and I think Tom Tom I did it. With a coke will map coat in the two thousands There's been some others a C. Code another analysis. Google have started an open source. Project will plus codes or open location code. Which does a similar thing. So I think it's it's a ten character code The refers to any location. I'm so you know. J. Seven q four x two three than plus a couple of other characters And they have a they have a Schulte version as well but I think my main struck with all of these. It doesn't really solve the problem That the scientific code the coldness is just too complicated for people to remember. I mean my mum. I actually sort of gate for an. Ap test with her three words. And then one of these Alpha numeric codes and she's not GonNa Remember The alphanumerical she doesn't even want to remember it It and I think that's the reaction that a lot of people get to woods them And you know when when we still sits what three words We actually briefly touched on. Could we do this in ten Alpha numeric characters instead of three words? We didn't know that any of these codes existed and we sort of dismissed it just thinking it's just too complicated a bit And a bit difficult. We must find something simpler if we're GONNA do this. So while a bunch of these codes around have been piloted. We haven't really found the any of them have had any degree of traction And they don't work ready for voice. I think it's not not an ideal experience to have to go character by character to just say one of these codes to a voice assistant Voice assistance kind of optimize for words worked pretty well And the way that we distributed them is ideal voice. So I think it's it's just a case of yes that there's a few around but when people are thinking about integrating a an address system into their products I think at the moment that probably thinking about what three words But I guess that the really good thing about that being some others in being invented by the these big heavyweights like Thompson. Google is that they to acknowledge the problem that that you know people are struggling with address. Isn't that that must be an alternative that the world news tools If one looking at that then people might think it's needed but But they all looking at it and I think they think it is needed So I think that's all take on. It is just three. Words is incredibly simple but actually optimized people Which is why people enjoy using US. So how D- generate revenue exactly the same way that that addresses the monetize today And and people don't necessarily know that each time you get into I use a taxi. App all. You put an address into any kind of device if that device wants to navigate you that they have to look up where they turn the street address tax to the point of interest name you typed in into the coldness which is how that Apple Service will read that This services cuccia cutting and there are literally just like millions and millions billions even GIO Coz. I'm happening around US every month And these are already through several of the The dress service providers and so we charge in exactly the same way If you type in a street address into products and you type in three address Then we charge a high volumes to turn that three would address into witness so it's actually a very simple model and for the call companies that normally used to paying By the car services but like the way it all hinges on the fact that if you want turn lots of three hundred dresses into the vehicle witness than that's how we charge so it's either a licensing or a per use charge. Exactly there's there's a few different roles we have different types of customers and how they use it but but all ultimately is volume ninety S. Okay and so I assume these are micro transactions. Yeah absolutely I mean there. I mean yeah. There's there's tens of billions happening monthly. Of course yet the amounts per transaction the absolutely miniscule Almost almost sort of insignificant compared to other services which will be happening. Say a ride in a right heading example The the address transaction is the tiniest bit of that but of course it adds up when you go a lot of people using these services. How large is this entire market? Like what is the total revenues spent? Myspace I mean the whole geospatial industry. I mean to depending on which report you look at is is sort of in the hundreds of billions a year Geo Coding Represents I guess a significant if no enormous part of that But but it's that's obviously material if you're talking about tens and hundreds of billions annually And this is something you know people often because all of the consumer products for maps as a free people forget how much is actually transacted on a on a B. Two B. Basis. But it is absolutely huge once you once you look at how all of the revenue changes hands The FA- services with a often ultimately free for the inconsistent so you are generating revenue today. Then yes we do. And I I is it fair to say you've been generating revenue from the beginning. No from the very beginning because we didn't have an API to start with and so It's it's the business products that we monetize the API and offline SDK. We have five megabyte version as well But as we've started introducing this into productivity uses in high volume And the guys like Mercedes then We have started charging for for that But of course at the same time we grow the number of users who are using three was both in our products and the third party products. So I guess you could say the ultimate aspiration is to not even have a what three adapt because if you can find your three would address on somebody else's out and then put it into another one then. The ecosystem is kind of gone. Full Circle so So that's how we we kind of plan the head in. You announced the voice. Api AT CAS this year with speech. Maddox correct that's right Because we found that For some customers just WANNA put voice navigation in their APP the prospect of having to say I'd like to do with rewards and now I need to find a speech provided that it works with Can introduce a bit of complexity if they're not used to voice services so we thought speech maddox another UK based company They do excellent air. Saw and so what we did. Is we sort of combined two products and we said look if you just wanted to voice navigation with three addresses nothing more nothing less less just enabled three one product and we'll put an API we hosted And it just means that now people can be up and running in less than half an hour To have voice navigation in their ups which we just saw. It was kind of cool. It's another thing where we just want to reduce complexity and let people start building stuff with our API and speech And make it a simpler fossil. So this space would seem to be a good candidate for a copycat. Yeah I mean I think it kind of goes back to what we're talking about before with with the way the people have made a lot of these different codes People have tried to simplify coolness before We're not the first And we may well not be the last But I think at the moment way we're very happy with the fact that we all totally unique And I I know that they're people like the benefits of some of these other ones but I guess the truth is in the traction Getting at the moment so I think we're very happy to to occupy a unique space as well so one way to compete is through growth and funding that growth. I noticed your crunch base. Has You listed as raising around fourteen million to date but I understand? You actually closed a much larger around last year yet. That's right So we've just Closed around with which has mercedes-benz. We've had Sony come aboard Subaru Sac China's largest company Alpine electronics which which is a tier one based in Japan So yeah we we are ramping up the growth because I think just getting the momentum is is key and all of these guys in some way are involved in the future of mobility and believe there will will be kind of Lynch pin on the address. Part you know they have invested into maps and navigation and associated technologies before. That's not us. We Don t Mashal Navigation. We're out there on our own Trying to be the new address system. So yeah it's very exciting that we're now attracting big investment from the likes of these guys and how big was that investment So that investment we've done in various parts but yet we're we're now Several tens of millions of dollars once you combined together Across the different rounds with doing gotTa and valuation. I mean we we I mean we disclose the valuation of the company as we progress but I guess it's sort of implied just by the the the types of raising the with doing. Yeah Fair enough. So is this a is this the type of business do you think will be a billion dollar valuation and the next five years? I mean right now. We're just focused on growing global standard. It's we have global ambitions absolutely but when we're not attached or or focused on specific numbers. Okay got it These are all great questions to ask because I know people are listening to. This will be interested all this. I will say that you know you mentioned global sort of. We're running towards the end of our time here but one of the things that strikes me as really interesting about what three words because the traditional. Tech Company is founded by an engineer out of a leading university right and they probably start in San Francisco and and maybe they incubate there in the US and then they go to Europe and then it's the the more developed parts of Asia and then they wind up maybe eventually getting to the less developed parts of the world. Your Business started exactly the opposite Eh. You're a music major UNDERGRAD. So maybe you're a developer on the side too but you're a music major you're out of the UK you're starting in Mongolia which is among the least developed countries in the world and you mentioned you know South Africa. You've mentioned a lot of Latin America today. You mentioned India. You're getting great traction in those places first and then it starting to infiltrate into the more developed in western countries. It's it looks like you have the opposite. Business Model and business development approach of almost every other successful tech startup That's an interesting way of putting it And I guess I guess you'll you'll buying on In in many ways in that we've kind of gone about it back to front and I think that's why the products has worked because we didn't approach it from an engineering perspective. We did it from a human perspective. That's kind of why why the product is so distinct and unique And I guess yet because I traveled a lot In the music business obviously yet not not talking tech companies or anything like that. But this I went to a little place in the world and and sue bad addresses and so in many respects. I think back to those same places. going hey there's an opportunity here And we've kind of gone about it in a different way But even to the extent where you know. We put all similar sounding addresses in different continents. If we can so many people say to me. Why didn't you tape which. Spf next to take which aspin's But I think just because we started from scratch and we lifted it very objectively. When hang on what we actually want to achieve Let's not do things by the playbook just because that's the playbook We should make our own decisions about why we WanNa do things and I think that. Outta Cheetahs has done us well to get to where we are. Well it's interesting because it is a user experience first example of successfully building a technology company as opposed to technology I approach. I think that's it and in and in some ways it kind of it does make things over simple Because when people think about integrating technology especially voice within must take us three months to do this because you know people are so kind of associating with complexity we just do one thing just one thing And and we focus on safety and then people get up and running in hours. Ov- minutes not not days weeks months because we just do this one thing. So yes I totally echo that say we. We wanted to be user experience. I to make a behavioral product. And yes there's some tech but but it's been done kind of opposite and your timing seems to be excellent because the this is a fine solution potentially using text input but voice input. It's actually perfectly suited for in the rise of voice assistance. In the general liquid of voice assistant access. Now is the type of thing. That's really a perfect storm for business like yours which. I think probably would have struggled if you'd come out five years earlier. That's that's a very fair point and I think we came out with it on one hand. We thinking will you know small fence being around for a while. We bit late to the market with this but actually you're right because voice. Assistance have risen right at the same time that we were developing our voice And we had guys like Mercedes. He wanted to do a dramatic Be First bit of Tech It suited US perfectly and even the small fines. If you consider that we now actually have a voice running on board on the smartphone. Probably if he is a full that wouldn't be now to cope with with running that computation. The on the device so I think the fact that everything is just played well into that time line. I mean you make you're in luck but I think We were fortunate to have the idea at the right time. Just as supporting tech has all become good enough for us to applications in the real world. That people can use why. We're fortunate that you've developed this. Because I think it's a superior solution and you know I point out to the listeners. Here that there are a lot of applications that still need to be built and this is a really good example of of the type of application that exists because of these new technology platforms. It's almost like yes. You could've This could have existed ten years ago in another form potentially but exist as it could as new service it probably wouldn't have without the the voice revolution and and I I like that because we're always looking for ideas to say what is what is the Uber That couldn't exist have existed before a smartphone right for the voice industry and I look at this and I say you know it. Yes the this probably could have existed but it probably would not have been as widely adopted or have department of that you have today. I fully expect with him for five. Years is this will be ubiquitous. And this will be the way that people will get places and and I think voice was just kerosene on the fire for your momentum. Thanks I like. I like the analogy And Yeah and I. I totally agree with you. I'm I'm pleased you think that way And I think at the moment right. There's just so many more applications now for us to build into them. We could have done a few years ago so Two fingers crossed That's a it's a good kind of melting pot for this also work all right. Well voiced by podcast listeners. That's your challenge. Go out there and find a nice service or application. That takes advantage of what we're doing today. You don't always have to create the immersive experience. Sometimes it's just providing the utility in the back end the plugs at other people's experiences. So Chris sheldrick really appreciate all the time that you've spent with us today. How can the Voice Pot Listeners? Find out more about what three words follow. What you're doing on social media what's the best way for them to keep track of YOU The best thing to do is literally down through adapt and then just couldn't find your thrust of your front door just by doing is the best way of learning and then on our website wealthed dot com. There's a heap of information about languages. if you WANNA work with us Loads of open roles All of the third party products with built into and there's a lot now through has come slash products You'll be able to find from that and and on social twitter instagram and all of the usual channels so Yeah please do. These look excellent. We will put that in the show notes as well so voiced by nation. I'm Brett can sell your host. The voice by podcast each week. Another amazing guests today. We'll have one up for you next week as well. We're going to stay in the UK. We're going to switch from transportation to healthcare next week you can find me on the twitter. African Sela and voiced by data on a regular basis and check out voice insider the newsletter that we said each week which is really got those nuggets of wisdom and insight. That you don't find elsewhere. You can find that Voice Daddy I ford slash insider. Thank you Chris. Sheldrick from what three words for all your time? Today and sharing your insights. Thanks much food.

US UK Mercedes Mongolia CEO and Co Google London Voice Technology Chris Sheldrick APPLE twitter Alexa Brett Stanford
A $300B Industry and Growing: Find Your Opportunity in the Online Course Industry with Greg Smith

Entrepreneur on FIRE

30:28 min | 5 d ago

A $300B Industry and Growing: Find Your Opportunity in the Online Course Industry with Greg Smith

"Boom shake the room fire nation L. D. here with an audio masterclass on a three hundred billion dollar industry in growing find your opportunity in the online course industry fire nation to drop these bombs I have brought. Greg, Smith on the Mike he is the CEO and Co founder of Thin Catholic a software company that makes it easy for you to create market and sell online courses. Think serves over fifty thousand people and businesses that have taught millions of students in. Over half a billion dollars in revenue, for think, KIFFA clients in fire nation I have contributed to that. Half a billion dollars as podcasts paradise has hosted on thinking for years and years and years, and today we were talking about how the recent events in the world have affected the online course industry as well as what's going on with brick and mortar businesses. What does it mean for people that are creating courses right now today and. Weiss an amazing time to be building a community in audience online and what we should be doing right now to capture this momentum in fire nation talking about the completely free five day course challenge. That's I'm so excited about because I? AM The featured speaker on day one and it's going to be amazing. This five course challenge is going to be a complete blueprint for your online courses going to put you into action and. It's not just myself but for other amazing entrepreneurs including Josh, Stanton of screw the nine to five Joanna we of copy hackers and two other amazing people as well. You can sign up for this free five day challenge of starting very soon fire nation because it goes weekly over at thinking dot com slash fire. That's think ethic dot com slash fire T H I, N, KFI DOT COM slash fire can't wait to see you there. Fire nation is going to be a blast. Let's think our sponsors and kick into this episode fire nation your online course journey starts today join thing I ever five day course challenge in walk away with a complete blueprints for your online course the you'll be ready to put into action up for this free challenge today at Think-i FIC- dot com slash fire that's t h I. N K I F I C dot com slash fire. If you want. To be your best financial year ever you need to join Russell. Brunson's free masterclass where he shares the exact blueprint of what the top one percent click funnel users are doing differently that the other ninety nine percent are not registered today at you'll fire dot com slash secrets. That's ill fire dot com slash secrets greg say what's up to fire nation and something interesting about yourself that most people don't know how low fire nation. So excited to be back. Something that most people don't know. If my wife knows this I watched the movie, the founder of McDonald's story. So I cried during that movie. This there's a reason. My wife doesn't know I was a little embarrassed to admit I. cried during that movie at the scene where you know you might not expect any tears. When the original guys not the see the founder of the move in the movie. But the original guys who created it are in a parking lot and they've sort of chalked out and mapped out the the shape of their kitchen and they're passing trays and Burgers like mock trays and burgers around. For days trying to optimize how the flow of food through the kitchen is going to go to build this optimal system. Really brought tears to my eyes because to me it was like entrepreneurship at its best like just people who are so passionate about something that they had to get it just right and they were willing to like spend days in this parking lot doing something that everyone else would probably think they were totally crazy doing and yet then came up with the McDonald's system out of it. Man I. Love that you have such an entrepreneurial heart in that direction. That is super cool and as you were kind of describing that I could definitely picture that scene unfolding and just being like man these guys just really care and they're so committed and fire nation. That's how you have to be by the way. That's how Greg is with his company think havoc and that's why we've just today as you're listening to this started. An amazing year, long partnership because we've been using epic now for years and years and years the podcasters paradise and we love them for all of those reasons because it's just the best core software to use you. Now, we've even getting together and you know speaking of like putting together the perfect system we still have, of course, a lot of tinkering to do because that's what we do by. We've come up with this amazing five. Day course challenge completely for free fire nation. If you knew how much time Greg his team myself and kid of putting behind the scenes to make this amazing course challenge for you, which by the way is free like you'd be blown away but it's just because Greg hair his team cares kate nine we care and that's why we really hope you do take that action and get over to think epic dot com slash fire we'll. Be Talking more about this challenge. At the end of the episode, we have a lot to cover today we're talking all about the three, hundred, billion dollar industry and growing in how you fire nation can find your opportunity in the online course industry with, of course, the best person to talk to about this with Greg Smith. So let's talk about the recent events because we do live in a different world than we did year ago. How has these recent? With cove in the such affected, the online course membership. Yeah, it's had a long term impact on it and it's been amazing to see it happen obviously so much tragedy in the events that have happened and are happening. But on the if you're on the side of creating online business and in particular in courses and membership sites, it is it is wild there's so much changing their so quickly. I see first of all, it's like the future has we've just been teleported into the future. All the projections people had for twenty twenty, five twenty. Five years from now are happening right now, and so the market size is exploded. Really really quickly in terms of more people, creating courses, more people, taking courses, and to be honest it's a little bit like the wild west out there in a good way and that there are so many people who are taking courses for their first time ever now that there's a a new way of looking at things. So it's it's it's easier to get started than it's ever been, and it's created this environment where I mean really if you're starting most online businesses or an especially in courses in memberships. been any better time to get started with it. There's never been a better time fire nation I mean, for the foreseeable future, a huge majority people are going to be at home looking at their computer logging online looking to learn looking to educate looking to pivot looking shifts why not help them in that process, but we gotta talk about the brick and mortar businesses because these in-person businesses, the brick and mortar I mean man, they are ones that really really have to be looking in the mirror and. Say What's going what? What are the next six to twelve months look like what pivot? What adjustment was strategy can implement so you've been there Greg, you've seen it's like what are some of these successful pivots or strategies that folks are doing that you've seen or the people listening right now can actually consider in their pivot brick and mortar side is so interesting because I see there's the typical stuff that you would expect. You know someone running a yoga studio it makes perfect sense to bring it online. It gets and then you go to Sorta go down this path of it being less and less obvious that you could pivot to online and pivot to not being in person and and pivot to creating courses in education I. Mean that I I was talking to a DOJ Joe owner for martial arts literally down the street from my place called up and I ended up talking to him and he's you know martial. Arts you would think, okay, you've got grab hold of someone. This is something you can do online he's moved entirely online obviously had to shut down his his joe for it and suddenly went from having a couple of hundred members in his local dojo. Now, he's able to connect with thousands of people around the world, and that one might be a little more obvious but then I get into the weird ones like. Someone. With a pizza restaurant right is now going on creating courses around how to actually make their stellar amazing locally famous pizza. and. So many cool ways that people are transitioning from that brick and mortar into putting something online and being able to reach such a bigger audience to think about a fire nation I. Mean, I'm really I'm sure like that example, the pizza guy had a thriving local business, but you know he was just a local business but now he has like nine billion people in the world that he could potentially be teaching how to create one of his specialty unique pizzas. You know if he does a right and he gets in front of the right people and delivers them the right experience. So it's a different world. It's not a worse world is on a better. World it's just a different world that we have to adjust, and that's one thing that he homo sapiens have been able to do you know for seventy thousand plus years so let's keep doing the. So what does this mean for people right now who are creating courses just maybe on the fence of considering creating courses like what does it mean for them right now as far as them looking at the opportunities in front of them I, think what it means in terms of looking at the opportunities that they are. There are a little bit different. So there's a little thing the few things that people are doing differently now and so you have to sort of. The the different conditions and do a few things differently, and we can talk a bit about that. But the biggest thing is is really that this opportunity is is as I said completely different and much bigger. So Some of the things I see people doing differently is is they're achieving success that much faster. They are getting better reviews and feedback from students. So there is like I said how it's a little bit like the wild west is there's so many new people entering but that changes the environment in that people are more accepting of. MVP's they're more accepting of that sort of quick launch minimum viable product to test something out because they're new to and getting into the space of spending more time online learning online and they they're setting out with a goal that's really important to them, and if you're there to help them, they're even more accepting. So, one of the big things that I'm seeing that's different now is people are able to start so much faster. We track very closely all the metrics that we see in terms of someone starting a new course and how quickly it takes them to build it, launch it, and becomes accessible with it, and those numbers have in all cases have more than doubled like things are happening cut in half if you're talking about timelines, but they're just happening so much faster. So it's really thinking how can I move a little quicker and get something out both to? Get something out in front of the people who were looking right now and help them but also to see success so much sooner in fire nation. If you're going to be moving faster, you want that's time line to be a time line that number one you can achieve in a high quality in meaningful manner, and that's why having blueprints. You know joining a great software platform like think that has a step by step tutorials is going to guide you that has support that has all these things for you. They'RE GONNA lie not only to potentially have that time have like cut in half that time of launching that course but. Also allow you to have that high quality course maintain because that's you're gonna get those better reviews. A Greg was talking about you're GonNa get the referral business people talking about it and excited about it and sharing with their family friends and loved ones. So that is key when you're moving through this process and again, that's exactly why we've partnered up with think-i fix starting today on this year long partnership and one of the first things that I sat down Greg I said, hey, we gotta do something that's really going to. Just, provide massive value that's going to be free this going to be valuable. That's going to really move people and give them an amazing Solution Greg, his team myself and Kate we all brainstormed for months and we came up with this amazing thing kick five day course challenge is actually turning into a six day with his gray bonus we have. So we're GONNA be talking about that in more fire. We get back from our sponsors who by the way we're GONNA kick it off with the Catholic, think if it is the. Best Platform to create market and sell your own online courses we speak from personal experience we've been hosting our online courses when think Catholics since two thousand, seventeen with thinking our ability to deliver content to our students in a simple user-friendly way has become so much simpler uploading video to our membership site in adding pdf documents and resources is such a breeze plus everything is laid out to help make it easy for our students to consume one of my favorite things about working with kick their support. The team always has our. Back. So if you're ready to create an online course to help you reach a wider audience, build revenue in make a bigger impact than think is the perfect partner to have by your side to prove it think cousin exclusive offer for you fire nation their five day course challenge over five days you'll get tactical tips from five rocks, entrepreneurs, including myself and walk away with a complete blueprint for your online course sign up for this free challenge today at think epic dot com slash fire. That's T H I N K I F. Dot Com slash fire fire nation. The quality of your business funnels will make or break your business but not to worry I have exactly what you need to succeed in twenty twenty. So if you don't have a final yet or if your current funnel doesn't convert or if you simply need more traffic to your funnel, I have the perfect training for you. The founder of Click Russell Brunson has put together an incredible training. We'll deliver everything you need to know to make twenty twenty your best year ever during this free class children the number one fund secret, the number one conversion secrets, and the number one traffic secrets to help you grow your business faster than you ever could have imagined in these sequels aren't just assumptions. They're proven tactics backed by a team that's filled with funnel experts registered today at e o fire, dot, com slash secrets. That's. Fire Dot com slash secrets. So Greg, we're back and as I kind of teased before the break I mean we have spent all this time you know putting together his five day course challenge to help fire nation is completely free. As you heard during the sponsor read fire nation. If you didn't skip through it, think dot com slash fires where you can sign up for that for free and it's just an amazing time right now and I mean, right? Now today to be building a community to be building an audience to be doing it on line. So what Greg should we be doing now to capitalize on this momentum there's a number of things that you can be doing one of them and you've talked about it and touched on it is that building a community or an audience and I see people doing this again it's it's happening faster than I've ever seen it before I was talking to someone. The other day who was teaching at community centers to doing music a community centers for kids and families and she. Has always been a little afraid of going building an online business but people have told her you've got to take this online. You're only reaching a few dozen families you got. You got to reach more people. She's always wanted to Kovic ca finally force that to happen, and in her first few weeks she was doing facebook lives to three hundred plus families around the world and so you know. rewind six months to build an audience of three hundred families for someone like that might have taken quite a while to make that happen and she pops on does a couple of facebook live shares it with a few people and all of a sudden she's got three hundred potential customer families there listening, and now she's able to go and launch an online course generate revenues from that and many times. We're now seeing this where it's actually exceeding the original revenue of the original business if there was one So the biggest thing for me or one of the initial things is. Getting out and sharing what you're good at sharing, what you're passionate about engaging in a conversation with a potential audience to either build the when you have -ticipant in in communities out there and really looking to grow your own community or your own audience own following because once you have that in place and as it continues to grow as you know really well on his. You can do all sorts of amazing things. You've got this group that's now invested in you. They're interested in learning from you So you can actually build a business or around that in fire nation. That's the key part when you can build no like entrust with an audience that you can get people who are odyssey looking to you for solutions to their real problems. That's how you start to get that moment, and that's how you take that first step in that right direction. I want to speak right now greg to the people who are just getting started. I mean, what can people that are just like you know what I'm sitting here I know that people have problems out there I know that I could find one and just cleared a great solution for them. What can they doing right now? So one of the tips on on growing that communities let's say you don't really have that. One of the things I've seen is where people are they're they're jumping in their joining other commute maybe that's a facebook group jumping in joining another community and then I and I received invite to one of these the other day and it worked and they got me into their audience is a small group of entrepreneurs led by an entrepreneur who jumped into a group that I was in and then sent out. An invite and saying, Hey, I'd like to get together to to just chat and share what we're working on and and so this person didn't even have yet figured out what it was. They were gonNA offer or teach they had no specific agenda other than getting us together. Now they made a bit of a plan so that they could be seen as the leader in the group and right away they've built a small. Group but they're starting to build that audience, and then there was the invite went out for the second one where you could invite more people to it because it initially felt like quite this exclusive thing. So it's one of those sort of NEAT tricks that I've seen people do where they're inviting you to this group. You can hop on zoom, have a chat with group people share their best practices, what they're working on. There's a bunch of different formats for how you can do these things. I find a really good one is not one way people do it as they have this sort of the hot seat, someone shares their challenges and other people try and help them I do find that tends to have people. Everybody's got an opinion on it. A really cool way of doing it as actually having people share what they're really good at. Right. So then you make sure that they're just sharing the one thing they're good at they're not giving an opinion on everything that everybody has but that was a great way to doing it and all of a sudden they went from zero community to now having an audience of ten and then on the second call, there was thirty people there and you can see how quickly scales from there. So I think finding tricks. Like that that you can just jump in and start building an audience. If you don't have that immediate thing, you want to be teaching and actually you know you mentioned that that the five day boot camp that's one of the first things that we're looking at in that is figuring out what are you going to be actually teaching? What could you actually share with your audience and confirming that you've got the right topic there and even if you have an idea I know I'm going to be teaching martial arts knowing to be teaching corporate finance. You definitely want to narrow that down to the right fit to really achieve success with your course love everything that Greg Sang and fire nation I just want to clarify one thing that super important for you to realize right now, you don't have to have an agenda this very moment to start taking action you need to take action connect with people just like that example that entrepreneur, the Greg share he just took action or she just took action in he or she connected with people, and then what can you do? You can learn from those interactions. And those engagements a question that I love the you'll be seeing in my training what is your number one struggle right now start learning what people's biggest pain points off schools and challenges are and guess what you're not. GonNa want to solve all of them but one of them might sound pretty darn awesome as a solution that you can create and start teaching that solution at years like I didn't even think that was a problem because it comes. So easily to me well, guess what doesn't come easily to everybody fire nation that could be your thing so Perfect segue into the thing Catholic five day course challenge drum, or drum roll please the blueprint challenge in fire nation. This is going to be that five day with the six bonus days. Well, there's going to be taking US step by step by step through this blueprint challenge that again greg his team I seven kate have worked super hard on day one is all about choosing your winning course topic. I am the featured entrepreneur for this day I am super had had to consume this great content that I've created specifically for day one choosing your. Winning Topic Day to is serving the needs of your community super-critical day three is turning your ideas into a curriculum. D Four is cure rating in creating your content. Day Five is perfecting your sales copy fire nation. This blueprint challenge is the whole deal holyfield stuff I mean this is day one a day five you are going to be finished with the blueprint challenge ready to perfect that sales copy on day five in make things happen and they've brought in other also entrepreneurs you know our friends Jill Josh Stanton screw the nine to five. Joanna we. Of, copy, hackers, other amazing entrepreneurs I don't want to give away everybody wanted to be a little bit of surprise but believe me they have just crushed it in this area. So you need to head over to think ethic dot com slash fire Senate for this completely free challenge they're going to be doing it every single week for the foreseeable future, and then they might adjust it and am my go every other week or once a month. So definitely go to think if dot com slash fire find out which one you want to sign up for. They're going to be straight fire. So Greg, which one do you want to dive into like what do you want to kind of like that fire nation really gets from this blueprint challenge to get them even more fired up the thing and I'm always super keen on his is turning the ideas into a curriculum but and we've talked a little bit about community but there is that first important step of relief choosing that winning topic and filling, viewing, figuring out how that fits with it and I know you've got lots of insights and opinions on that. And then I can talk to you about the turning ideas into curriculum, which is one of the areas I'm super passionate about the dialing into that because that's going to be Josh Jill stance in the skew the night at five focusing on that one. So go into that in Dallas Condo I mentioned that story on the the founder and I think when people hear those stories because I remember I, used to hear stories. About entrepreneurs who had this great passion and they were totally committed to a cause like a Jeff bezos or something and I'd say I. Don't I don't know if I have that I don't know what where mine is I'll be honest eight nine years ago before I started thinking or even five six years ago before things really took off, I would not have cried the founder I would have laughed at someone who was Understood it. So. That kinda stuff can come with time like my passion there around entrepreneurship is come from close to a decade now of helping entrepreneurs achieve success in their business. So now when I see that I'm super connected to it. So this can definitely be discovery process of figuring out what that is and and so one of the questions I really like to ask at the beginning is. I find the question I get most often is what is going to sell, and we can talk actually we have data on what selling right now. So I can give you ideas, but it's all over the place. The better question I think is really how can I be of value and that comes at an intersection of two things is where are you really passionate and able to provide help and what is your audience looking for help with? So that's where if you got that small group of people. Think if it is a focus group, right, they may not know it most people in focus groups don't know that they're in a focus group or a or a study, but you bring them in. You have some people who are potentially part of your audience. They're talking to each other they're sharing what they're good at. They can be sharing their challenges as well and it can be good to ask them that. To and then you're listening and you're helping to identify what they're looking for help with, and you can then match that up with what you're really good at, and that allows you to help lead into the curriculum development because once you've established essentially the at that focal point between those two things, you have the idea of how will your life be different after you've taken my coarser joined my membership. or my program. After. You've taken your course how will your life be different and that could be I. WanNA raise I WANNA lose ten pounds. I want a new skill I want to be able to paint. and. If you keep that in mind and I write that at the top of a piece of paper, and then that becomes the building of my curriculum and then I dive in on that page and I start to make sure that everything I add to that page that is going to work towards that outcome. Is it needs to be there. It's something they need to know to achieve that outcome to to create that change in their life if they don't need to know it to get there I, take it out that keeps my curriculum lean especially when you're getting started, but it also helps people focus on what they're learning, and so I, write down the key steps that they're going to need to get to that outcome that change that you want to create in your life, and then you can start to figure out how you're going to teach within those key areas. But this also, it breaks it down in a nice bite size pieces which makes it easier for you to your you to create. Less, intimidating to create in these bite size pieces, it also makes it easier for your audience to consume which we have the data show that that. When you break it into bite size pieces, they're going to be more likely to be successful because it's easier to consume and then on the creation side. I don't usually die in most people when they're trying to create a course they think, okay. How am I going to start or you're writing a novel or if you remember in school, you're writing a paper and you start at page one but that's usually where you hit writer's block where things are so hard because it's this intimidating, how do I start often once I have those four to ten points that they're gonNA. Need to bang off in order to change their life and the way I want I'll dive in partway through the middle I don't start at the top I dive in the middle. Okay this is the piece I'm most comfortable to writing about talking about right now all dive in there it just makes it so much easier to get started and diving fire nation. Our goal with this episode here is not to overwhelm you. With a ton a ton of content all in this thirty minutes that we've already been talking for, which is crazy because time just lies on talking to Greg for sure but it's just to say listen we want to wet your appetite. We want to get you excited. We WanNa get you fired up for the opportunities that exist in this world that again, we're going to exist twenty twenty-five until twenty thirty in a normal. World. But everything's been forward it in this online space because of this new world that we live in. So please I mean we are so excited about this blueprint shot it is literally been specifically designed for you fire nation to arm you with the knowledge you need to launch your online course business we're talking from choosing your winning topic to building a unique curriculum to the content plan. This challenge covers it all think. Dot Com slash fire it is completely free. It is completely free you know this. Greg again, just not too overwhelmed fire nation because we've already given them so much in the episode and they're only next step is to come and join us on this amazing five day course challenge. What's one thing you want to leave our listeners with today and then we'll say goodbye I think the biggest thing for me is just recognizing that whatever business you're in or if you're new to this and you're looking to get started that. There really has never been a better time to be diving into an online business particularly around sharing what you're passionate about, and it's actually never been easier at the people I'm who a year ago I saw either struggling or too intimidated to star on it are suddenly diving in and seeing such amazing success. So quickly, I mean my own personal course revenues, I still have my own course that runs I. Mean they've they've more than tripled in the last few months just. There is so much more acceptance. There's never been a more accepting easier time to dive in and do this and with our five day challenge. We're GONNA, make it really easy for you to dive and know exactly what to do next and really walk through that and make it so that you're get out there and be successful and building something Greg your secrets of crying during the founder it's safe with me it saved with fire nation your wife will never find out. But she listens wealthy married unless she listens and she is she's listening then you just have you know an amazing husband. So fire nation hope you've enjoyed this great episode. Hope you take action on thinking kick dot com slash fire Greg. Thank you brother for sharing your truth, your knowledge, your values fire nation today for that. We salute you and we'll catch you on the flip side. Hey fire nation today's value bombs and I mean value bomb Kontos brought to you by Greg. And if you've ever thought about creating a podcast of your own, the podcast journal is for you. It is gorgeous. It is faux leather and it's going to guide you step by step in creating in launching your podcast inefficient. Five Zero visits the PODCAST JOURNAL DOT COM use Promo Code podcast for a fifteen dollars discount and thank you for listening to my podcast and I'll catch you there or catch you on the flip side. Fire Nation Your online course journey starts today join. Think if I ever five day course challenge in walk away with a complete blueprints for your online course the you'll be ready to put into action sign up for this free at challenge today at thinking dot com slash fire. That's T H I n K. I f.. Dot Com slash fire. If you want. To, be your best financial year ever you need to join Russell, Brunson's free masterclass where he shares the exact blueprint of what the top one percent funnel users are doing differently that the other ninety nine percent are not registered. Today at, you'll fire dot com slash secrets. That's you'll fire dot com slash secrets.

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Episode 13  Enhance Sales Team Credibility with White Papers, Effective Bibliographies and Statistical Summaries

Medical Device Success - Your Success is Our Mission!

38:04 min | 3 months ago

Episode 13 Enhance Sales Team Credibility with White Papers, Effective Bibliographies and Statistical Summaries

"Hello and welcome to the medical device success podcast I. Am Ted Newell, Your Host? The goal of this podcast is to contribute to your success and turn help you contribute to the success of Your Med Tech Company. Thank you so much for spending some time with us today. This is a crazy time to start a podcast with the corona virus dominating the news. However, there are important things we medical device professionals can be doing in this altered landscape of strategies and tactics for marketing sales and operations, so working in the era of the corona virus, hopefully a short era. We'll be the subject of this first season of episodes. Let's get started. This is episode thirteen. Enhancing sales rep credibility with white papers enhanced bibliographies and statistical summaries. Now I a little housekeeping as usual first of all note, I do not. That's an ot get paid by companies and C. E. O.'s that I feature in these podcasts. The other day someone on linked in. Made a comment that implied that I was in cahoots with the people that I was interviewing, and I took a little bit of offense to that, but on the other hand I could see where they might believe that, but it's not true I do not paid by these companies and or the CEO's. These companies and executives are selected because I believe they bring important ideas and tools to bear in this new world we live in. Now on that note, if you hear of an interesting technology strategy or tactics, that could be useful the listeners of this podcast please email me in the cove era, medical device executives and marketing and sales professionals need all the help. They can get and so do I. Now, another interesting note is that last week this podcast exceeded six thousand downloads believe it or not, these are good numbers for new podcast, and this is episode thirteen, my lucky number. I wonder when I should stop using the word new to describe this podcast, maybe in the very very very near future. So back the business. If you recall and recent podcasts I throughout some interesting statistics aren't very good for sales teams, and that is that eighty two percent of buyers considered sales reps unprepared. Forty three percent of buyers trust the input from third parties. In that case that could be key opinion leaders more than from the salesforce or the sales team. Twenty three percent of buyers would trust a salesperson with Info to help them make a buying decision, but that's not very much, and that's not very good. So what if we turn those statistics on their ear? By giving the sales team, the tools and proof sources, they need to communicate as a so called third party. In other words communicate. The Ko L. Information via the sales rep by giving the sales team the tools that they need so let's take a fresh look at white papers, bibliography summaries and statistical summaries. It is not difficult. It is not expensive. And to help us with that today. We're going to talk to Ash Mita. Dos, who is the CEO and CO founder of CO lab tree? Prior to founding COLLAB- tree, she had worked her way up the ladder of greater and greater responsibility at cactus communications. I will let her tell you what letter to found Collab-, Trie, but I will tell you. It's an amazing source over ten thousand scientific freelancers, some of whom come from institutions like Harvard, Mit Cambridge University and even our good old hefty a. So cool APP tree can be of great assistance on the subject matter. We are discussing today. Ash Mita? It's really a pleasure to have you with us today. Thanks Ted I'm really happy to be here today. Thanks for inviting me. Well, could you tell the listeners little bit about Collab- tree, and what value at offers to those that utilize its IT services? Absolutely, so collateral is in on demand platform where scientists and other high end experts can offer their services to businesses, nor a typical description description for us is nowhere the Uber scientists for the work for scientists. So, we have The majority of freelancers registered on our site. Our workers with PHD's or they work post dogs, or they have many years of experience in working in high knowledge at high knowledge, companies are I knowledge industries. and. Our clients include business organizations. Medical device companies biotech companies public health organizations. Researchers at a universities who are looking for either people to collaborate with or for extra support in. Completing projects at their organization. The people that you have on the site that are offering these services these post Docs and Doctors and so on that. You're that you're just talked about. Are they coming, are they worldwide? And yes, so about. Forty percent of our freelancers are based in the US. We have another fifteen percent from the UK and EU and the remaining scientists are from. All around the world in India. Australia South Africa. Scientists Universal, no matter where you go, and if you're looking for someone who knows just this one type of bacteria really well, you're not necessarily gonNA. Find them in. Just one place. Okay well, that's great. And when was this founded and what motivated you to start collecting? So I used to work at a company called CACTUS communications which. Helps researchers and academics prepare articles for publication in peer review, journals, technical publications and other such places so working with that organization I got really familiar with academia and how researchers work. In the course of working with that company, I was trying to develop a product. I wanted to a custom natural language processing algorithm for that product, so I thought why don't I reach out to a data scientist with a PhD in and not and to help us develop this custom algorithm for us, so I reached out to a bunch of universities, and they had business offices in liaisons, etc, and they are very responsive, said Yeah. We have professors. Who can help, you will put you in touch. And then it was a silence eventually did not end up getting in touch with the natural. Professor researcher data scientists anyone. A. Seated this idea that said you know. It should be easier for business to get in touch with scientists. This was a time when companies like Lincoln were boasting about how many data scientists they're working with, and you know how they're using all these. It'll relieve hydrology workers to to craft their products. And it just seemed like you know. You don't you should need be pockets to be able to? Get that kind of talent on board, and if we look at a lot of the academia, business programs out there or or other methods to really put business and scientists together, it's usually the companies. Deep pockets were able to take. The most advantage. Of these kinds of programs so. This was kind of our way of saying you know, let's. There's a of scientists with. Amazing skills that are available. There's generally this oversupply of PhD's where their jobs doing leaning academia, so all these guys are looking. They're looking to industry for jobs and you know why not make that talent more readily available to to more people. So, you had a problem and did not have an easy solution, so you decided to provide the solution. That's usually a good way to start a business absolutely. And what challenges did you have early on with us? And so I think initially guys. We started thinking this through in start. Thinking through the use cases, the the first question was really anyone use us. I mean. Is anyone really going to hire scientists for a platform? And at that time you know marketplaces like Uber up work. They had just started to gain some traction, but they were not maybe necessarily as well known as big as they are today, so it was really just are really. Are People going to hire scientists like this virtually online through platform? was testing that proof of concept and then understanding okay, what are the different use? Cases where the different organizations because as we started gaining some traction, started seeing business coming in. We started seeing such a huge variety of use cases. Coming in as well so we. You know the initially we thaad immediate researchers, looking for other research, the researchers, or maybe it's a few types of organizations that might need. That might not actually hire scientists. Figure it out. No, we know nowadays. You want to sell a cupcake. You need to consult with the scientists. We started seeing a lot of food companies coming in saying. I need to consult the. The food scientists to make my product more shell stable or turn this annual manufacturing recipe. Start seeing cosmetic startup. Saying I'm trying to formulate this new moisturizer I need a scientist, and of course you know we had the typical organizations like medical device companies in Pharma companies coming in saying Oh. We need scientists. Are we need experts to help us? Prepare content or Prepare presentations or Consult with on a on a specific problem. ETC, wrestle. We just had this. You know huge variety of use cases in our the challenge is really had we kind of serve all these use cases than this these different use cases. It's great. So, let's start talking about. A use case right here that we have in medical devices. Or I should say let's start talking about. A use case problem that we have here in medical devices and. Before, we started recording this podcast. You and I were talking about the background situation that we have in the medical device industry. And probably a lot more industries outside of medical devices, but that's our focus today. There are a few things come together and one of course. Is that with Co Vid? and you look at the AMA CDC the MED guidances. Sales Reps have much less access to doctors other healthcare professionals could be ahead of ICU head of infectious control the head of a hospital laboratory. They have much less access to these people than they did before because of these guidances and. Actually it's common sense. You don't want a sales rep that's been in. Five practices. already during the day to jump into your practice and walk through the lobby with a bunch of people that probably have an average age of sixty, five or seventy. That's why these guys were created, but it has moved the sales process to be more of a virtual world, and it makes it much more difficult for the sales rep to communicate value propositions to the doctors and or to the other healthcare professionals. They'd like to communicate with so we have this challenge, and then another thing you and I talked about prior to the podcast was just some of the data that I've shared with listeners before which is. A majority of buyers think that sales reps are unprepared. And that more buyers about forty three percent of them would trust the input of a third party. which could be a key opinion leader for example or some type of medical expert, whereas only twenty three percent of them trust the sales person. as a source of information to make a decision so when you look at these different factors and now and that's before. Of the virtual world was thrust upon us. This is before covid now we have covid and we have this problem so. As I got to know collapse tree looking at the website. Talking to you and I started thinking. There's some tools here. That could really help medical device sales, people and marketing teams make the virtual world more valuable, make the virtual presentation and the virtual part of the sales process more valuable. In terms of communicating value, proposition and I and I came up with several different things. I was thinking about, but one is the white paper and I don't know if there's a way to make a white paper more virtually. Interesting or not, but just to have a white paper in general that then marketing team can turn into something virtual for the sales rep the present, but there's the white paper and it seems to me like your service Collab- tree is like the perfect place to go. Find people to help write white papers. Oh? Yes, absolutely, End We've seen This use case quite a bit where the medical device organizations as well as biotech companies. Are Looking for people to prepare white papers of of different varieties really. That there's one medical device company, said we WANNA white people to be available as a resource on our website. So Mexican visitors can download this, and while it talks a little bit about a product, it also talks about the background of why we built the product. Roy Rebuilt it and. Then it takes lane some of the science around it. Then you know we've had some organizations coming saying gate. No, we want a white paper. Specifically for sales, purposes is the white people would wanNA equip ourselves team with to send them out in. You know tighter. Send this white paper ahead to prospects of ahead of a call or to send them after a call to kind of just reinforce points made during the meeting or sales call. So? White papers are definitely a fantastic tool and. and. They're definitely very effective tool leaving for medical device organizations to us now one innings, -iety actually medical device organizations. Keep bringing up as we talked to, is that? We have to be really careful about the information. We have to be really careful about the claims in there's A. We have to make sure all of our claims. Even are compliant than they have to go through a regulatory approval process, either with our in the regulations with consultant or regulations team etc.. And so that kind of wholesome back from moving forward on this path with collapsed. We tried to find them the kind of experts who can make sure that they feel safe with. The content there commissioning with the white papers. They're preparing and that you know they can hire people who. Who are cognizant of these? Special requirements that they have. Really good and I think that's a great point. Because yes, you do have to have even regular advertising. You have to have approved by regulatory department. That shouldn't be that great a challenge, but of but knowing that you have a writer that understands the government. And can produce something that requires the fewest edits and changes by the regular deport regulatory department is really great, and another thing that you and I talked about prior to our recording. Is I see a lot of companies that are sort of scared of trying to get a white paper written, and I don't know why. They are scared. It is such a simple thing to do you find somebody? That's a talented writer and they can go to Collab- tree to do this. You marry this person to the doctor who you want to be the author of the. White Paper. if if that's the appropriate case here, you're going to have a doctor or could be a page PhD author whoever the author is going to be. And the the writer writes with the doctor expresses as their viewpoint goes back and forth of the doctor to make sure it's correct, and the doctor puts his signature to it. It's really not that difficult. Yeah, the doctors in the PhD's and the science that you might want is the author of the White Paper. They may not be readily available to sit down and write something themselves. They'll happily work with. A professional scientific writer. Yeah actually, and you know one of the any one of the advantages I collect tree is, you can can come in with these requirements. We very open and say. we have this right now. We WanNa do this. Right up. We do encourage anyone coming a hiring a writer to collapse to make sure you know. Did they do the correct attribution? ETC, but. A lot of the experts at collapse are actually also doctors. So. You know it might be that if let's say sales rep has collected a bunch of feedback from you know doctors they've already spoken to, and they have. Let's say you know a bullet, point list or some points that they think. Should be collated into a white paper. They can then. Come to collapse. We hire an MD in that area to put that together and with their signature on it so. That's that's definitely a a use case for medical device companies to come to collaborate for, and the other thing is that you know with white papers? One of the advantages of a white paper is that you can. There's a lot of different types of content you can fit into a light paper. White Paper doesn't have to have one purpose so for example you can take your testing data, or you can take research that you've already done in in the course of developing or finding your product, and you can turn use a lot of that. Turned into a white paper or a press release or similar item, so for example we had this one company who came to us who came in and said you know we've done a clinical trial. We wanted to create a press release out of this clinical trial. It was a very technical press release in terms of laying out the results of that clinical trial, but it was an end. They needed a very technical raider to be able to prepare that press release, but you know that was one item that they could produce just from just output of work that they're already doing as part of their. Product Development and safety processes. There's another company that said okay. We've We have some Clinton very technical clinical data sets. We need someone to be able to visualize and prepare some graphs and charts from this that will present at a medical meeting, and then we also want to incorporate this into some of our website material. Then there's another company that said okay. We want to prepare white paper out of based on some of this research that we've already conducted on. There's a bunch of data we've collected. There are some literature we've collected. We need someone to kind of synthesize some of this into a white paper that explains this research in a little bit more clearly than we than we haven't laid. Laid out in our notes and we want to use this to notify the public. About what were the outcomes of a of our research studying? What are the next steps for research team in the the flexibility of using away paper format or a press release format to really showcase the research and outcomes of all the work that these organizations are doing in the course of. Developing and manufacturing and testing their products is is something that everyone should consider doing absolutely and what we're really talking about here and in sales and marketing terminology are proof sources, and so when a salesperson goes in and make us makes a sales call, and they're touting certain parts of the value proposition. They need to have proof to back it up and a white paper is terrific proof to do that. Because even though the doctor or the healthcare professional knows that the white paper. was financed and funded and directed by the company. However. They still may respect the author of the White. Paper or even if it's A. Company created publication with all company input. It still comes across as more organized and more professional than just a marketing brochure, and so I as a proof source, they can be very very powerful in a in the sales, process and something you just said sort of segues into another area, and that is like compiling a bunch of information and making it more understandable. Understandable and one thing that sales and marketing people aren't that great at is statistics and I tell you what I am not I, mean I took those courses, and I was terrible and I took those courses. I got through them. I was glad they were over. And I've never gone back and looked. At US statistics course book. You know sense then. The there's a lot of statistics that are really important period viewed in peer reviewed. There's that sales professional might be using to support the value proposition that he's making to a customer a prospect. Is this something where one of your writers or one of your scientists? Take something like a peer reviewed paper and restate the statistics in a way that a sales rep could present them and understand them better. Is that something that one of your professionals could help with oh? Yes, absolutely, and that's a very common type of project that. Comes to collect tree, which is announces. Do Systematic Review or Can you compile all the literature? All the statistics available in this area and put it into a format that I can that we can put into a business report door others one company, and said you know we need someone to prepare kind of kind of key facts that our sales and marketing team can use. And one of the advantages of using collapse tree is that our experts are independent. And they are a so while in other organizations coming in European, those experts for the work. They're putting in our for commissioning the projects. They are independent are outside the company. They're not beholden to the company to kind of. Produce results or use this to kind of fund research or what have you? So, one of the advantages of using collapsed is that organizations can come in, and they can act an expert who really is an expert in in in that specific field or Device or treatment area? To collect the data, make sure it's collected independent, verifiable way and ask the expert to put their name to it so that you know they're ready to stand by the results of that analysis or the results of the the synthesis of peer reviewed research and and Grey Literature. You, know it. It allows medical device companies to. Come in higher independent expert to independently collected. Put that data together for them, and by asking them to put their name on it. Asking them to say okay, you stand by this date and then use that to then present to attend cooperate that into their sales, not everyone and marketing material. That's great, so we started talking about the statistics, and so if we had one peer reviewed paper that had a lot of interesting statistics senate. We could get a professional. That could be provided by COLLAB- tree to. Help I. Guess Restate those statistics in a way that are understandable to a sales and marketing team and more easy for them to communicate. So, there's a lot of value in that. Because then the sales rep understands it's better understands and appreciates better, and then communicate it better, so that's one thing, so that's like taking one peer reviewed publication, and then you sort of segue into another area which I think is really powerful, and that is the literature search, so if you if you need to. Support, a product, a surgical technique, or or whatever with some additional literature, maybe a short bibliography, but then that needs to be summarized in a way that a sales and marketing team can present that to their prospective customers. But also in a way that's easy to understand as opposed to just throwing a bibliography atom. Doctor has to figure out and they'll never do that. They don't have time may look impressive to have the bibliography, but if you can have it summarized in a way that you pull key data out of that bibliography into a summary I think that's very very powerful. Oh, yes, absolutely absolutely, and you're absolutely right. If you know it's just presenting a bibliography, it's It's probably just GONNA. Be collecting the bottom someone's drawer at the or at the bottom of someone's email pile, but if you're able to synthesize that information for them, and then direct doctors are others to. More relevant reading beyond the summary. That could be a huge value. Add One of the things I love about our platform is we have an army of scientists researchers standing ready. To share their knowledge L. standing ready to use their expertise to present information in a better way, so many freelancers are just generally interested in being able to communicate science publicly communicate to be able to share their knowledge more generally to make sure that as we to just make sure that scientists inc much better and healthier weight, and is used for evidence based decisions, and so you know they're very eager to work on projects where they're synthesizing and preparing information for the free by others. Something I just thought of related back to the literature. Search or bibliography is a really cool bibliography would be one where. It's done just list all the publications in support of a particular idea or particular product or technology. But They're see they could list the publication and a couple of key bullet points from each publication that would be easy to read versus just looking at a straight bibliography, and that would be that would be a terrific project for one of your people and it. Wouldn't be that expensive. That's I. Think the other thing I need to people to understand is this is not expensive work you know when you when you think about the the result in the the power that these proofs sources add to the sales process. This is not expensive work. And No, absolutely not you can get a three to five page white paper, depending on obviously the level of difficulty in and technical details to go into the white paper in get a white paper commission between. Let's say one in three thousand dollars in obviously the Higher the page count and the more technical. The white paper becomes the higher the prices, but you can. Easily get something short note for that amount. Regan easily get a small summary along with the supporting bibliography prepared for injured thousand dollars. Wow, again, depending on the size of the topic and things like that, so yeah, it's it's a no brainer to to use the talent available to have this have spread materials to equip sales and marketing teams. No, that's great. I mean these are really great ideas great tools. And then they can, they can make them virtual, so they can have them in a digital format that could be attached to an email or sent out you know. Of course that's true. They can print them and have them available to be mailed out or when we are allowed to have. Trade shows again, they can have the matter exhibits. Were in the field of the rap when they are allowed to see somebody, but they can be bathed virtual immediately. They can be turned into virtual product that a sales rep can. Present, virtually or marketing campaign can present virtually. Any other ideas any other thoughts you might have about the tools and resources. That collab- tree brings to bear in this area. I think just generally speaking what Collab- tree is trying to do is provide a resource across. The entire product cycle for medical device organization, so you know from the initial product conceptualization designed to a guidance on you know testing and quality guidance on regulatory matters to. Helping to providing support for preparing marketing and sales, collateral and synthesizing information for for use by potential buyers and the public, and you know the kind of experts that collapsed offer we have a were. We have a growing segment of users with specific background working with medical device company, so we have freelancers who've previously worked as product developers at medical device companies in. We have a freelancer. Who's who was an investigator at the FDA? FDA for seven years before he started his own consulting agency we have. We have one freelancer. WHO's the medical director who's recently the medical director at a large medical device firm that sells dialysis machine. So you know there there's a variety of talent available on electric and to link back to some of maybe the discussion. You know that we had just now. We'd love to see medical device. Organizations use talent available to really. Number one be able to crystallize the benefits of their products in a much more evidence based way, there should be a lot of evidence available out there that these organizations collect in the ordinary course of their work, but maybe not all of it that they can use to actually prepare that evidence these case to as to why as to that, because of their product, you know, we hope that we can help a lot of especially smaller organizations kind of gained that competitive advantage by being able to use. These kinds of materials to saying no, we. We have put in the effort to do this wider research to to put these evidence based answers together to. Put the supporting material together to explain the science behind our product to explain why we're developing the product in a certain way to explain why we think this product is beneficial based on the science. We really hope that medical device organizations are able to use the talent that's ready, readily available and willing to use and an eager to use their knowledge to communicate science to the world that they used this talent to build a to build a case for why the product is is useful. Absolutely I think a point that you just made a couple of seconds ago. Is that small companies can do this? You know it is not that expensive, and they just have had. Their trade shows canceled. They should have gotten refunds for most of those those organizations or rolled it into next year. So the funds technically on a budget standpoint are available. To, do things like this? You know it costs so much more to go to a trade show than it does to. Write several, really good white papers that support their sales team so now that we've talked about. Some of these effective tools. How does it work? How does somebody go to the website? And how do they progress from there? Getting started is fairly easy right now. We have no upfront fees or anything. We asked we ask you put in a small project brief to explain what you're looking for, and that's our starting point. We then try to connect you experts that matched the brief. So for example you know you come in with. Let's say A. Cardiovascular device and you need, and you're looking for someone to write a white paper around. That will try to match you with the cardiovascular expert, ideally someone who's worked with cardiovascular before the so the starting point is putting in that brief. Posting a project on collapsing, you have because in with medical devices we understand confidentiality is a huge concern. You can actually choose to restrict your project so that only certain freelancers are able to see those details in. Those are the freelancers that we would reach out to as as the more suitable of experts for the project. And then once we've identified and invited those experts. They will put in a proposal to work on the project. Then it's up to the organization. Then we asked organization to connect with. These experts have a chat with them. If they want to introduce additional safeguards, liking signed an NDA with Americanization before I share further details with you. You can go ahead and do that share you ask. The experts than discuss the project details and choose the person you want to work with typically on a project usually have two three really good experts that you can use to work within. That variety helps you choose. What kind of expert do I WANNA work with? Is it someone who's really strong on statistics because I really want someone to collect the statistics on paper? Is it someone strong on public communication because I really want to prepare something for a non technical audience to read or depending on the skillset depending on the knowledge area, depending on your budget, you can choose what expert to work with, and then once you do that you. Kind of move ahead with confirming the project, the Fed expert, and and the way payment works as we ask organizations when they decide to move ahead with an expert hire next expert to the platform We asked them to fund the project, but the project, but the funds are essentially held in escrow once the work is delivered, and the organization says yes, this is a Dork is delivered. I'm happy. With Doric, that's delivered. The funds are released to the experts that they worked with so there's a little bit of a guaranteed to say that okay. If I'm not getting my work, then you know I'm not losing out on those on that payment. During this entire process, we encourage close collaboration between the organization or the or the client and the experts weeks courage them to work together, because the more the more collaborative effort, we find, the higher quality, the output of the work that's. Ultimately delivered being like I mentioned are experts RPG's? They're scientists. They're typically very conscious of. Confidentiality issues. They're conscious of eye, protection and know who owns the rights to this work. It's et Cetera there. They openly asked if they wanNA use the details of the work. They tend to openly ask okay. Do I have permission to do this? Our platform reinforces a lot of the points around confidentiality and says you know all. Our basic terms of services that. All details of the project are confidential. Belong to you the organization, unless otherwise stated by you, so yeah, come put in your brief by posting a project, a will connect you with the right experts choosing expert, you WanNa work with. Hire. Hire someone from the experts interested in the project. Hopefully get a really. High Quality of Work done. That's great. That's great. Well Ash Mita. Thank you so much for being with us today I think we've reviewed some really. Powerful tools that need to be resurrected. By medical device sales and marketing or ones that will really assist them in this virtual world going forward so. Thank you, thank you very much for being with us today. Thanks very much for having. Me To dos impressive lady and impressive company collapsed tree. And that leads me to ask you the question. Can your sales team fluently speak to the statistics in the peer reviewed papers that support your technology. Do. You have up to date. White papers support the clinical or practice integration efficacy of your technology. Is Your Bibliography up to date and do key papers have summaries. If not guess what you have work to do. And a resource like collapse tree could help you economically. Get this done or warm up some elbow grease and do it yourself. The immediate impact idea for today is to go look at the bibliographies that support your technologies and decide if they need work to make them more valuable as a sales tool than delegate this project or do yourself. If this podcast is helpful. Please recommend it to colleagues. Subscribe to it and read it. Thanks so much for listening today. I really appreciate your support. Now, go win your week.

scientist marketing and sales PHD Ash Mita cactus communications writer EU US CEO and CO Ted Newell Ash Mita Harvard CEO C. E. O. Ko L. Information
61: Successful Learning and Giving Feedback Insiders Story with Max Yoder CEO of Lessonly Successful Learning and Giving Feedback Insiders Story with Max Yoder CEO of Lessonly  Episode 62

Build Business Acumen Podcast

25:03 min | 1 year ago

61: Successful Learning and Giving Feedback Insiders Story with Max Yoder CEO of Lessonly Successful Learning and Giving Feedback Insiders Story with Max Yoder CEO of Lessonly Episode 62

"Welcome welcome to the Bill Business Acumen podcast where we deliver practical knowledge and powerful guidance here is your futuristic host based Nathaniel Skoula today. I'm interviewing Max Yoda and he is the CEO and Co founder of lesson unle the powerfully simple training software the helps teams done practice and do better work and he's actually grown nut now. He's got two million uses so he sheds some great insights here why it's great to speak with you again. Max negatively back. Thank you for having me my pleasure. My pleasure shared so much value last time that I just thought it would be rude not really to be honest well. It was nice to hang out. We need to hang out twice. Three times of renegade trend now exactly. I'd like to hang out more. It'd be cool man. It'd be a pretty good job. Aren't we yeah so you today. We're GONNA talk about learning in development integrate unnerved because you run you run Leslie. You know head of law about this a lot more the ninety so I'm GonNa let you kinda tight the take the full really and tell me tell me what you know. Max Yes over seven years billing leslie. we've learned a lot about trading because as we make trading software so we help people ensure their trading programs are rich and successful and driving return investment over time. We learned that everybody we had the same question and that question was what am I missing so people are running training programs but they didn't know if they were hitting all the beats so what we did was we took it upon ourselves to make sure that we spelled out when all the beats were beach really like the steps in successful training program. If you're doing these steps you're probably doing it well and then filling in details within each one of those steps we call it. The better were trading method because lessons all about helping people do better works his are trading method for better work and it's a six step method constructs it starts out with assessing your your team in what it needs so a lot of times in the assessment process when you're kind of figuring out what we need to train on you talk to managers lot many. Roy Trading Program we we highly encourage you both speak to managers and also contributors contributors know what they need so sitting down with contributors dudes took interviews and saying things like what are you missing. What keeps you up at night. What question do you not want to be asked that if we could enable you on that answer. If you feel a lot more comfortable get that feedback finding the place where overlap you might find the cross selling rates in your business. need to go up so rail the celebrate who were not able to cross sell and you might find but that's something that is affecting both employees and the management team. The Management Team doesn't hit that number. Nobody gets Nobody feels successful if the individual attributed inhibit number they don't feel successful. They also don't make as much money so it's really important that we train on that. When we bunder stood on the assessment of the assessment phase what we're going to train on we move through the plan inveighs we have our cross selling and we know that we need to plan plan around how we're GONNA help people cross. Oh better so when you're in the beginning stage think about it in two ways we're building building the planet for what our trading look like. Is it all going to be on demand computer-based. Is it going to be an instructor lead in the classroom or we're. GonNa do role playing. You're planning that. You're also thinking who do. I need to have on this on this committee for this training program to make sure it goes really well who are the key stakeholders as building your team and this team could be there simply for feedback. They people who help you pull off. Those role plays where those on demand trainings either way surround yourself with a few folks who can help bounce ideas off ups so during the planning stage the first first idea is get a draft from what you think you cross selling trading is. GonNa look like in very quickly share. That draft out with people are all going to need to take ask him. What am I missing. If the draft is six steps or let's let's make it easier if the draft of three step program to lessons one when instructor led session run those lessons the instructor led session by your learners at by the people who wants to take say anything else were missing would be like about this basically have them poke holes in it. Invite them to poke holes in the talent your Napkin sketch and you need their help out. When you're when you're finished with the planning phase we move to the third phase which the bill face so catch up now we've assessed we've Klan and we've built in our new building phase. Those first three stages are really the stages or the subject matter experts managers and the trainers to make sure they get everything aligns the the next three stages are really all about Butler run the build stage now. You've identified what you need to get to on demand lessons. You've got an instructor led session. What's going to go into those. This stage is a place where a lot of training programs fall down and here's why they get stuck building way too long. People tend to try to perfect training what they call all trading modules because they're experienced trade modules this really high fidelity experience with these You know it's it's. It's almost like a production. It's not what people are ever really asked. Ask for when you really dig into it. Nobody was like you know what I needed for. My training is highly interactive production here. They need from the training. They needed to feel like they're being heard. They needed like they're being helped. If they feel heard in health it's GONNA be great trading. I don't care interact is just listened to help them. As a build stage truly important that you move fast not not not a dangerously ranger asleep fast but it your first draft those lessons out back in front of learners quickly taken our and then put him back in for learners. You'RE GONNA learn so much. If you get out of the vacuum of your ahead so please please please get out of the back of your head once you what you've assess you plan. You've built now. We learn any practice so now we're given the lessons onto the learners learn. Ideally we've embedded practice areas in the lessons so that learners can practice things for teaching them. Give them away to kind of test the muscle in a safe environment and then we give feedback in we of course Eh beckoning instructor led sessions we coach out we told me but were there opportunities for growth or their strengths are and then lastly we look at performance so I'm GONNA walk. oculus steps we assessed plan build than we learn practice and perform. The performance part is really where we can say had we do during the performance part art at at the team goes out and tries to cross L. and we had our benchmarks for how crossed earlier than we have our benchmarks rock wrestling's going today and we look we move the needle ideally when we sent those benchmarks for across was we said we wanted it to be after the train. We can find out. Did we do our jobs or not. If if we did do our jobs great one of the next train initiative if we didn't let's reassess maybe we maybe we reassess and jump back over making a change the learning maybe we jump back and change the practice figured it goes through the whole cycle again and say how do we make sure we nail this a second time that help for sure so so really it's starting out with the goal in mind how you want to develop that goal and the result that you actually want to achieve from the training yeah and bearing break it down into very very small steps and get feedback whilst you building the coast right because human go to coast. She could take six months building course by the time you built it. It's relevant relevant for like six months ago. Yeah Yeah Yeah I mean I've bill calls host before and it took ages to build it and it's like by the time he built it. Everyone else is doing the same course so you might as well just not bother you might as well just just bailed. Would it as you go right. We caught we call. It speed optimized. I'm sorry to cut you off week. Weather's Kinda. There's there's high fidelity training in their speed optimize training. You want speed beat optimized training because like I said it's helped if people feel heard in held they're gonNA love it and we're really comfortable with with a lack of high fidelity in our training on just just look at Youtube. If you want something solved in your house you're totally comfortable learning from a person with an iphone just so long as you're getting helped. It doesn't matter the deduction quality it just matters. What is that it helps you. We're very comfortable with a speed optimize content. They might be text based might be an iphone video might screen shot. We do it all the time we we don't walk into work and then all of a sudden get really snobby about it. We still don't mind if on isn't helpful would otherwise it doesn't get done no perfectionists down the down the job queue in the done. I've never heard that phrase and I don't know if he just made it up but yeah no. It's true Get the Job Queue Lana. My mental is he. He hates perfectionists. If someone says to him he says in a job interview he lost them. You know about themselves and if they went mentioned the word and they say I'm a perfectionist. He would just run them. All you know I learned something. Recently about perfectionism it was that that is when we think about vulnerability in people kind of being being genuine and saying and you know. I'm good at this and I'm not so good at that and I really excited about this but I'm really scared of that when one of the things that he all I've tried to do to protect themselves. Vulnerability is perfectionism the armor is the phrase that Brown uses to protect themselves from a perfectionist and that ends up hurting everybody. That's not it's not good for them. It's not good for their teammates. I it's just a net negative across the board very very interesting very interesting so really it's a mindset of growth you need. You need to have a mindset of growth. You need to be supported. I mean anyone in today has to have a mindset of growth because if you've done you you are going to end up. I'm not going to say you're going to be out of work. I'm going to say that you will probably end up not enjoying your job as much as you could. Enjoy it because of love the way modern technology is kind of moving heads or quickly it. It's everything is changing so upscaling and learning is absolutely indicate to to what we're doing but you just gotTa have fun. It's sort of having fun. Isn't it if having fun then you need to look at doing something else career anyway really. I think I think you need to under. I think you need to know that you're not expected to have all the answers. I think we uneven discounted reset the standard like you. You're allowed in that. Have all the answers of course of course that's the case. There's way too many questions. You're not GonNa have all the answers. You're allowed to ask ah you're let's say I don't know your to ask. What makes you say that your say help me understand doesn't matter what position you're in in a company. You don't have to have answers your job. Abbas to learn the answers and when you're learning answers you can ask a lot of questions and guess what you'll be a better teammate for it. Yeah I agree completely so I think I think that's learning and development wrapped very nicely. I think a lot of people learn a lot from that and I can't think of anything that we've missed on that one too big to be honest the great adding that was. I hope it was concerned. It feels pretty concise. It's very cool so in terms of feedback yeah before before we get into the real conversation about faith at united a got my best pro out again this is this is just that's like the Middle Finger. I get every time for Max. It feels like everything you pull it out that it looks like you've got to release all hand that is golden it. It's classic but my my require. La's to learn that you have a goal to hand in the middle of a podcast my friend Eric made me a three D. printed middle finger to anyone that's listening to this on on audio anyhow so it terms of like feedback right we're trying to with China which one are basically get better which want to learn and we're trying to improve because that's what feedback sorta bow but but if you're giving feedback to people publicly the is negative then it's going to hurt them and it's going to damage the white. I failed towards what's that colleagues in the neck. Colleagues will look differently so I think the first star is asking you I mean you've you run a company. You've got Yvonne Hundred Papal Aniello about learning and development so when you giving feedback it's negative you gotta give it to them in private right. You're not you're not. GonNa publicly chastised style or at Yeah you WanNa give praise you WANNA. Give public positive praise at but yeah you don't. WanNa be jazz somebody in public. That's just gonNA make everybody else scared to take a chance so that's going to harm the whole culture of the business or the or the although the entity that you'll be working full right exactly exactly yeah exactly yeah yeah so with feedback. How do you go about it sure I I. I try to get people at a mental model that I thing is really healthy one which is really talking about. Hey if I have something in my teeth I can walk around all day not might tell me that I have something might. Have you ever seen somebody with something in their teeth and you just kind of let it go. I know I have and I I look back on those situations and I myself in the shoes of that person or something in their teeth and I think how bad out of a feeling it is to have walked around all day and then finally at the end of the day ended up in front of a mirror how could be bus but it could be worse they could like they could like have a toilet roll out the back of that trousers no doubt embarrassing embarrassing to not no not be able to see something that everybody else can see and and that's the main thing. I want to take away from it. We know how embarrassing it is. When everybody else was than telling us something the nice thing about having something in our physical we have mirrors for that sort of thing the end up in front of a mirror and eventually we'll get there. We'll have come to the realization. The same is not true for our behaviors so I like to think about behavioral tease. We have things in our behaviors that people don't tell us about just like they don't tell us about things in our teeth and just like we want the things in our teeth because we don't like walking around not realizing that we're maybe making a mistake. Maybe wear making somebody or hurting somebody without realizing maybe we're cutting somebody off and not listening to their to their full idea and we're just gonNA summarily judging them in throwing it out any one of those behaviors. There's any Bayton haven that kind of decrease communication and creates pain. It could be stuck in our teeth so I encourage people be just like I really appreciate people people who speak up on that something in my actual -ties I like it when they do it in a in a kind way like they pulled me aside a maxi awesome then your d I really Mex- you got something on your behavioral realties a really really easy example is one time I wore a t shirt to a two o'clock customer meeting and the customers culture was not necessarily t-shirt friendly our culture seizure friendly. I were a T. shirt relates. That really wasn't and they didn't make me feel badly about it but one of my teammates decided said a hey this is a customer of ours at. Let's try to think about their dress. Code as opposed to address code could show respect for how how they like like to visit. We like to be totally hit that this is it Teasha. I'm and I'm good with that. I'm going with that and I can show up in a t shirt year. We'll relax ballpoint. They're pointless bought. Sometimes I will wear a shirt right. It doesn't matter where the Jolla Balsams but I will wear shirts and you're allowed my team my team. I just ask me politely to May. Be Drafts. Uncertain inclined engagements and ever thousand like Oh man. I did not notice that but it was something in my teeth. It was just I needed to be reminded that that I wasn't the right call and there's much much more serious things like where maybe I'm in a meeting and like I said I might not be a not listen. Listen closely to somebody's comment and maybe as eight yeah great. Let's come back to that. Maybe I don't come back to it. Somebody can tell me hey maxine comeback comments when you tell me if you're gonNA come back to it could be little little things I could also be big things you know I could. I could have really upset somebody. They have conversation with me what I really appreciate what they tell me when my teeth and I like it they take it up from the angle is me proving I really like you. Max 'cause the easiest thing to do. If you don't mind somebody is just kind of walk away and say that's their problem when somebody comes to me and it makes it clear that they want us to do better work together and when our company to do what's best for it means a lot to me that they'd sit down and give me that perspective at in our first conversation together we talked about non violent communication as a really solid approach and really solid way to to share your perspective in a way that won't offend people and will leave them open and receptive to your message so I and I recommend everybody revisits communication. I have a little excerpt of it also in my book book it's called do better work the talks about having conversations in this way you either way yeah. It's up to you but you I'm ready so I try to read that. Riddick's onto thank you thank you yeah and I it you send. Me Send Me Your address. I'll send you a copy. Yeah we lost one but even chaos. I Apologize said I was GONNA get your. I'll check with the marketing team to see if it's already out there but if it's not we'll get that you need to sign China for me that I'm a I need. I need it saw. Okay okay very important. I think if anyone sensing to this if you ever get a book from an author I always get books from authors. I'm very lucky and even if I buy them yeah. I I actually get them to sign them. I will meet with them on purpose just to get them to sign the book. I think it's very important I will make sure yeah. There's a whole chapter on difficult conversations giving feedback. It's just so important. We did we to one another but yet but it's really difficult. Isn't it because it because you've kind of got the ego there right which everyone has a need. It's not a bad thing unless you're unaware of it and you like. Let's take control of your entire life but the thing is is that it can hurt feedback can really hurts yeah. If it's done in the right way. I mean I've got caught a a few mentors yeah and sometimes just kick me you know and it's all like Radi huts at the time but then you turn around and you look at how you've changed Shane because of their engagement with you and because they will have said to you you might take longer to write anemia in future you might you might change inge the way that you write an email. You might take five times longer and move things around. Then condense written could be all sorts of things that you're tightening feedback but you're it's. It's understanding the fact that it's GonNa make your life better united and I think that's that's really difficult one because we're all human rights and our Egos and I'll pride sit in front of us lots of the time and it's it's difficult. It's very difficult for me Komo in particular now you're not alone. You're not alone. Everybody's got an ego and I think if you're a manager is incumbent on Youtube said that ego aside is best you. I can cause the more defiant you get toward. Somebody's feedback just just don't expect a lot of feedback if you're GONNA be defined toward other people's feedback at if you're not getting a lot of feedback I'd be nervous. I'm a manager you you know and if the flow of information is income away. I be nervous so if you're managing people I think hey you've responsibility to find ways. Put Your Ego aside and just listen you. Convince your husband your wife. Your partner later but you just have to listen those moments. If you make that person feel like they should do this ever again or they probably won't do whatever again but you're totally right. We have a really tough time receiving feedback. I like to think about it like this. If I don't get feedback at that could be very very helpful to amy I can live with that behavior chronic way. I could keep a with me week over week month over month the earlier if I'm willing to engage in the acute stress of listening to somebody's critique critique of my behavior or adding somebody tell me what they observed for me. I makes them feel I can make that acute stress instead of chronic stress by in chronic delivered would that behavior that creates chronic stress or having acute moment of stress where emerged from it and then get asked it and I'd much rather have the acute moment stress Yeah Yeah Yeah that enables change very fast and extra. Yes yeah and it helps you do better work right now slot motto. Isn't it dude. That's the that's the jam it's the jam talk here for that. There's a lot of headroom for doing better work. You know we've got a pretty low bar for what we think is employment in kind of teamwork these days aids and I hear a lot of people who just really hungry for a lot lot more compassion and a lot more camaraderie and just a lot more clarity at work. You know what are we after. Why are we going on their those. Those those questions are not always answer yeah. We like very much so I mean I was interviewing some guys from Microsoft. The other died and a night that was really interesting interesting and they were just talking about just finding out what makes people tick because it might be something completely different for me. It might be like money or it might be holidays so travel time to work on something home will unite there are certain drivers that sit behind us and I think that's really important as is an enemy or this learning development feedback gross is over lights this old time together and that will be that will be an interesting accent you you like that one actually love. Herrick and you're right knowing that people are driven. It means emitted makes a big difference. I understand how you're driven than. I can make things relate to you but if I don't understand how you're driven will apply speaking. I'M GONNA probably be try to be teaching you things. The Way I wanna be taught as does lay you. WanNa be taught exactly exactly and I think just making it fun right trying to trying to just give the feedback but actually just just make sure that when you give feedback that you don't you're not too harsh like the ability to be a bit sensitive. I mean you know no doubt because some people really empathetic like they they feel law from office yeah other people. Laura hard nosed and they don't really feel things as much so is my understanding I think also the person that you are talking to but also so being aware that perhaps they might not actually feel anything for what you're saying so then you just change your communication method haven't you. I just explained to them in a way. The motivates them to change. I suppose it's super helpful to know what the person's communication style is. What they're processing stylists you can learn things like from pretty index. Which is an assessment? I use adviser for predictive index their company that helps me to understand how people are wire one of the things that I can see from that is if people are patients or high formality generally process a little more time so having a different conversation and and saying let's revisit this tomorrow is way better called in. Hey I dropped this onion. We gotta talk about it right now. They just did not end up with the other people. WanNa process it right away is so in the next level empathy right understanding where the person's at how they feel enjoyed making sure that you're being awful about how where they're at zeal well. That's really interesting well Max. You've been very generous with your time. I know you've got another meeting in three minutes. I appreciate this a lot. It was fun and time it's fulltime of Oh yeah okay. I'll get to that aspect. I can't wait to read it. I'm really really interested because my brain is just going like this right now totally exploding with all the knowledge like if you're on facebook join the elite. Tek News Group and you'll okay well. I'll just check out. The poll costs go up got so many episodes coming in the next right next three weeks. Four weeks is going to be just insane rock and roll man good good job good job and I wanNA make sure I know I were down in your address. I JUST WANNA make sure I've got everything Maura Ultra privacy no problem and if people won't apologize for the delay. It's a right if people WANNA learn more about out lessons. They need to visit lesson lead DOT com. That's lesson L. I don't call DOT com. That's perfect and you can get the book. Do Better Dot dot work so. WWW dot do better dot work nice. Thanks so much for listening. Please subscribe five and wherever you prefer share with your friends and if you enjoyed the show drops review on itunes or wherever you listen.

Max instructor Youtube China Middle Finger Max Yoda Nathaniel Skoula Leslie leslie. CEO and Co founder Klan facebook Butler DOT La Lana Microsoft Brown
How to Integrate Chat Into Your Marketing

Duct Tape Marketing

30:16 min | 10 months ago

How to Integrate Chat Into Your Marketing

"This episode of the Duct Tape Marketing podcast is brought to you by PIXELS DOT com. You GotTa make those images look great if you I want them to pop you want them to represent your products. This is a retouching service to make your images look great hello and welcome to another episode of the duct Tape Marketing Marketing. podcast this is John Janse and my guest today is Mike Yan. He is the CEO and Co founder of the Messenger Marketing Platform orm known as many chat. So Mike thanks for joining me. Thanks for having me. I wonder if you could give me a little bit about your origin story. How you I do a little research obviously for these end your your work? History on linked in is a little brief. I'm almost guessing. This is one of your first kind of big adventures We actually have been doing STARTUPS for over Close to ten years from the nine years there've been doing different objects and Get anywhere from e commerce to entertainment and Consumer websites to no. I don't like a mix between the messaging APPs and they also entertainment team indepth And then into went into Messner Marketing and the reason. We started On messengers because and two two thousand fifteen telegram. It's a messaging APP similar to Facebook Messenger. What the popular in different countries opened up their. Api in two thousand fifteen and we saw an opportunity to help sixty five million monthly active users Be connected the businesses. They WANNA be talking to and help those businesses that you've got a business results by using this channel because at that point there was two thousand fifteen being nobody was talking about there was nobody had any idea about How big this was going to get so We started without Yeah the two thousand sixteen transition to save a passenger be because facebook passenger open. API and now very like nick honored to be the number one platform on facebook. Messenger Yeah we have over eight hundred thousand facebook repatriates in over one hundred ninety countries around the world so so the growth has been pretty astronomical than from I I actually followed many chat from from the very beginning and tinkered around with it because I tinker around with everything you know as part of doing this and You know it's not only as has the platform change but but certainly the landscape has changed as in terms of how people are using chat and that's true that's true. People started dual thought about chat chat. BOTs I as this Chinese thing as this kind of like a Toy at a Interesting thing but not very valuable and When everybody everybody when every other company was building chat bots for the sake of building Chad? But we were actually. We came up with this term Messenger passenger marketing. And now it seems like everybody's using it like if you go to Messenger Marketing Dot Com. We will actually reach our blog and This is a we got. MESSENGER is a great way to actually drive business outcomes and to help you with with marketing sales support To help you convert better and not just Pay Something Fun That has the novel keep. It didn't have having value. And that's why I think the thing that's the part of the main shut success so my first experience with with the body at all was. I don't even remember the company but I ordered something and they communicated through facebook message or with me about the you know when it was going to get there so really a service kind of function and there's a few years ago How are people using it? You mentioned some of these things that that Now you know that you can use it for marketing purposes. I also see a lot of really bad uses of it are annoying unfortunately marketers ruin everything right but what are some great uses of you know if you were talking to businesses in different industries you know how would you tell them to use messenger singer bots because I think it's pretty easy to abuse them too. Yeah it's true. The I think the Marcus will abuse any channel that they get their hands is on and but this is i. Think this is a bit of a generalization I would say bed marketers will abuse any kind of get your hands on Beginning if you think about marketers job and a marketer that has good attention their job is thunder them. Customer needs and to you match. The customer needs with the products of the business has in. There's a match and to create that value that transaction where somebody buddy wants something and they get and they feel empowered and they feel like Achieved like they moved closer to their goal will help ah the product or service that the business provides so and then I think it's. It's all about communication so when you think about good marketing it's based on It's actually follows similar. People think that marketing is this like some really like like a terroristic type of discipline that you have to learn that. It's really complex. It's really not like your. He just wants to be held to the people that you're talking to. You have to figure out what are their needs. And you have to present your products and services in the way God Actually speaks to that and actually A given the fact that you're concerned breath does so you. Should I think that chat marketing specifically creates this It just becomes more and uh-huh personalized Channel where businesses started to understand that. Actually it's more like friends talking to each other and it's more Marketing thing is much more about understanding. What the customer like? You're for example. I mean we've even example. You're talking about the best uses Markman usually when people think about the bodies were marketing reckoning. They think about just like spammy meals for example. Things that people don't want with actually turn down. There is a cohort of people that that actually really really want the wheels. So the question is not about the Congress and self the question's always about the match between with the person wants and what the marketer and with business does in terms of their communication And those people who really really weren't one those those deals they will be actually angry. If one day the not receive their daily deal message so it's more warm much more about segmentation and it's much more about being smart about who you message what that message is what the channel is what. The timing of the channel is anything. That's why make shot is so powerful is because we income like we started with Messenger but right now just human like want. 'EM Want months ago. We've announced if we actually going beyond Messenger. We just added SMS text marketing and we also add email because those are the two biggest channels marketing channels that we Seeing the world right now and people are are users are a lot of them are using email marketing and we under we. We saw the. It's actually becoming. It's actually really hard to merge those systems to make sure that they are working together As a as an orchestra like Playing their notes at the right time if you have different platforms so we decided to Build a Omni channel platform that allows easy to seamlessly go from one channel to the other but the fact like our our origin from messenger allow. We've been born into the interactive world so when we went into for example. Sms Marketing we instantly Were much more capable than the even the best of breed solutions because the best like when when people thought about this smart thing usually. It's a one way communication so we have a message. You send it out. Maybe there is. Maybe there is something that allows you to send up. allows you to send up Message of the right time. So maybe there's some triggers but that's like the furthest when you're GonNa get what about interactivities. How actually having a conversation with a person and not only manual conversation awesome automative conversation conversation and Yeah that's that's something that wasn't done there before and then but the more important part that's how you actually also so a triangulate between these channels so say for example. You have something to say to your people you can start with an email. Email is is very Is Usually noninvasive. Because usually people do not check their email Like at the point of receiving than people expected that you can have your like you can check your e mail not often as nothing messaging APPs and text messenger are much more invasive because people usually respond to those since if occasions faster. So it's an irrelevant that education then actually like it's not GonNa be let's say I it creates more frustration for the for the customer. Because we feel like we feel like we have to respond respond to that exactly exactly. So how do we decrease how can we For example communicate with people who want to be community through email and communicate with people who want to get a text messaging and once wanted to communicate with through facebook messenger differently in. How do we make me before? The business is new that and given the fact that there is like many more channels. They're coming up. So what's coming up instruments coming up. I'm messages coming up liberal arts mark. Cs and the also the cross carrier Messaging Initiative for something up so there is more like it used to be that you could be doing the only one channel on digital channel that is direct marketing which is email and now you're entering into this world war two point five billion the people around the world use messaging APPs in the facto standard of how people talk to each other. How does the business and that's GONNA be Arrive Arrive in this environment. Where like there's all this complexity and we believe at our mission is to simplify that by bringing all those channels into one place and by helping them be it just by saying? Hey you don't you any other Mark intermission platforms are direct marketing platforms. forty fold your customers during size. Many shots no matter what the channel is and We have any you can create Beautiful orchestrated creative. Campaigns were It actually Respects the choice of the channel. Where the customer? But it's easy for the people to not not get swamped by Massachusetts and also reduce your costs and increases online. So yeah that's that's how we're thinking about this if you've gotta gotTA website if you're selling products online today you know that the images are crucial to how people make opinions about your products and services pixels PIXELS DOT com. That's Pixel with Z dot. COM is an image retouching service that can take all of your images they could retouched touch them. Add shape and symmetry smooth out. Bumps Align shoulders thinks that they can reduce wrinkles they can reduce and remove lint tags. Everything thing that just doesn't really seem to fit. Get somebody to do it for you. Accelerate your time to market because they'll give your which is retouched the next morning go the pixels dot com. That's P I X E L Z DOT COM and find out about their re touching image services. So let's talk a little bit about the conversational aspect as you said a lot of these automated we probably all have gone on. You know the little bubble pops up and says what we needed a new. Tell it what you need and then you and hopefully in a in a very fluid conversation but I also see a lot of those that don't end well that you know that they haven't been written well they haven't been thought out you know and it's so where do you strike the balance between this idea of of a Bot if you will Any human beyond you know responding so I think it's up to the business. Decide what they want to start with. Some people actually start with full human agent and some people start with WHO automated solution and depending on what their task attend is Craig's Apple. If you're doing any lead generation I would start whether or not immediate solution because lead generation is something very repeatable. You can ask the questions. Basically filling out at four through chat chat interface which is more interact with and more engaging like the usually the convergence to actually filling out for our go higher when you use a chat interface interface But then when if you're doing something that is Much more diverse in terms of one day Customer intentive. Then you can actually go out and start with live chats and at like this is actually this is a really good point because for example when we do we don't believe at in one way or the other like I think that the best customer experiences creative with a mix of automation and human touch and so it has to be because automation is really really helpful when it works when it's responsive when actually does what she wanted to do and It gets you to your desire Result human agent is a great it's Addition when you have a certain question and you want somebody to talk to can understand your specific and Corey And can help you out and The four or more complex queries or just. Sometimes you just need it person to talk talking about the thing that you have and so I wouldn't say that there is a specific path that you should take the business. I think. Think there is a He should look at your task. That you're trying to solve your role and ask yourself. How is that like what is the best way to solve that And and it's Again we're seeing in terms of our customers. We have both of the both okay solutions on the platform so we do have the automation part. Obviously and we do also have to watch a part and We see that from our our customers is that people usually automated things that are easy automated Automated and then they also go through the live chat when somebody for example For some reason somebody could fall out of the conversation flow. They started to type something. The ethic questions question or something. That actually had many trout that will open up with the recession. And you're GonNa be notified as as an Admin. You're GONNA be notified that somebody is outside outside the automation and you should pay attention. And maybe respond to them and And bring them back into the flow or actually continue the flow Manually and so we try to reduce those costs. We try to make sure that things that could be. Automated are automated. But then also give you the option to Human Manual responses taught. I think you made a really good point that people need to really focus on automation when it works is a beautiful thing when it doesn't work it's really irritating and so I think that that's people need to understand that. Tell me a little bit about A function in this. I mean what are we in a world at because a lot of the responses are that are currently available are it's almost like a database. I mean they're built thin pre-written so they can only respond to certain things a certain way. How far are we away from a world where where you know a a chat Bot for example can understand the intent of a question and make its own answers up yeah so? I don't think that that Chad will be able to so first of all we. The CIA can already understand. The impending depend on to manage that into dollars flow. Oh so you could actually use something like a quote from Google that understand the intent of the person and can be much more flexible in terms of how you set them those automation so it's not just like Rigid key words where pave this is. This word is mentioned that reply with. It's not not so much more if the person Penn is close to like asking about the working hours not respond with this message but but you're still responding with a message What you're talking when you're talking about actually responding with a message that is is generated Abide the AI. So that's actually Further so there's already Artificial intelligence model model that can generate like they can generate Picture they can generate text. So there's already a lot of progress technologically in that It just doesn't feel like there's not a lot of use case for that in at this point For like types of FAQ questions or or let's say for types of asking questions about a certain missing information for example if you're if you have a model that gets reservations so I'm just a really fancy way of saying like there is a type of Algorithm To to for example take reservations automatically personally could say hey WANNA big book and stable for two people like okay so we know that you need for two people but we don't know the date we don't know the time so now we need to ask for the missing Info so You have the intensity need those two parameters who start asking okay. What what they what the And also maybe for some other additional info like an email or phone number to reach out to the person so And for those types of things you don't really need a generative model that will actually you you need. You can eat them actually static program those those texts and Same with the Faq once we know what a question your answer. If you're asking like it's actually you don't need a different response. Every time somebody asks in a different way about the working hours are you open today. Are you open right now. You can actually respond with the same message off. Hey we worked from this to the etcetera etcetera. So you don't need to generate that message but but I think in the future in a few years. There are a lot of cases to make Chad butts more more or natural where they can be talking about and to make those conversations more unique That will also listen to the context of the conversation and and In that regard yes those models will be very valuable and I think it's a matter of a few years to actually be implemented so ah interpretive capturing intent that's available right now in terms of generating. I think we're a few years out so if you're a small business and I'm sure that a lot of small business owners are are are hearing a lot about this and they're thinking is this for me How would you tell somebody? Maybe maybe not as digitally savvy You know who's thinking you know. How can I try this out where we'll be the first place that you can say? Hey here's here's a use that just about every business could use. That's a great question. I was wondering we went into this a wormhole and I'm wondering like are are. The small businesses have been interested in the technological V. Sales of this. I I think like all of this. Seems like very complicated and very packed tacky etcetera like the simple fact. This is at two point. Five billion people are using messaging APPs everybody is using text messaging everybody in the US. Yes for example. Fifty five percent of people use iphones and iphone have Not only text messaging but also I message in stock which is a messaging. Hang out. Somebody was wondering what are what difference between those green bubbles and bluebottle blue bubbles so the blue you bobble is means that you're sending this over data not over the carrier and basically that that that that's the messaging APP. That's just bill bill in into the messages Application anche. What actually what I'm trying to say is that all old your customers are using messaging and most like probably your also using methods? You have some. You're talking to your friends friends and family your children your colleagues Slack is is is growing really fast. Microsoft team is growing really. We've found those are the two like messaging APPs for the work force so The the number one thing that businesses have to realize his message viewing as a form of communication is here to stay and it's growing rapidly so that's number one point and now the question is how can my business benefit from adopting messaging APPs and chat as the as a channel now of customer communication. Let's say I've been using email is should I be starting to use SMS. Should I start using facebook messenger singer and what is going to be the benefit and like to be a different businesses. It's going to be a different Different Abuse Case Most businesses actually will have to start using messaging APPs in the next three to five years because all the consumers are going to expect expect that they can actually message the business on any platform like you. You know how everybody expected. You have a phone and you have a website like it seems like it's it seems a bit strange to a lot of people but it's actually so you like for me. It's not even a hypothesis like it's the fact like and three to five years everybody's going to expect every business us to be to be able to tax and your business like you're as a consumer you're going to be pissed off when when when business will not have an option to them and to not have a phone conversation because phone conversations they're actually In terms of their popularity as the customer communication channel. They're dying they're very much Declining and the reason like if you look at the data they can send some links of the research but If you look at the more senior people Their approval like their Preference for voice. Communication is sixty something percent. It's really high but if you look at the people from eighteen to thirty four their preference for voice is twenty percents screed time blower and the same goes in the same transition. VISTEON happens for tax but in other way round the communication for people sixty five and older is twenty percents preference for people and this one is actually coverage to age groups so it's not from eighteen to thirty five that's more from eighteen to forty four war and their preference for text. Communication is sixty one percent so As a person you want to be able to check the business but that business has to be responsive that business has to be able to reply fast automate some of the stuff we process the other stuff and We'll be doing all all this because you don't live like you don't WanNa be wasting your time I'm being on the line with a business that is scrambling to like answer. All the phone calls and I think phone support. His actually gotten worse is to be. Maybe because of this but So speaking with Mike e n he is the CEO of the message for Marketing Platform. Many any chat in you heard it here three to five years you better be in the text came or you risk the the run the risk of being obsolete so Tell people where they can find. You've got lots of great resources in education as well but tell people where they can find out more about many chat here so if you go to may not got an A. N. Y. Sheet H. At Dot Com You will find We have a free plan. We can start. I'm building out your messenger and SMS automations and and chance and We have a great beginner course on Youtube. It's free where rates watch walks you through like how to build this out What is it for better? And if here's somebody who who's not like into the whole marketing thing Though back the question why are you listening to this podcast but like maybe you and you just want to stay on top of the technology Stuff then we have a bunch of agencies who are really really good at building out of these touches experiences and you can also find a partner that will go this out for you And we have a list of certified experts on the website and you can talk to them. Don't even ask them all sorts of questions so I would. I would go to menu chats either. Find a parker or just Register for a free account and go through the Youtube course chiefs It's all free and once you once you're convinced then you can actually convert to a pro account and it's GonNa be we're very aggressively priced. And because we are. We want to build in the most ubiquitous platform on the market. That's why we started moving like even the pro plan. We have all this stuff for free but if you if you convert to the pro plan it's like ten dollars a month So thanks for stopping by Mike and Encourage people to check out may chat. We'll have the links in the show notes so hopefully we'll catch up with you next month on the road thank you.

facebook Mike CEO and Co founder Messner Marketing Chad John Janse cross carrier Messaging Initia nick Mike Yan Massachusetts VISTEON Youtube CIA Marcus Google Markman
Accelerate Your Machine Learning With The StreamSQL Feature Store - Episode 137

Data Engineering Podcast

46:12 min | 3 months ago

Accelerate Your Machine Learning With The StreamSQL Feature Store - Episode 137

"Hello and welcome the data engineering podcast the show about modern data management. What advice do you wish you had received early in your career of data engineering. If you handle book to a new date engineer. What wisdom would you add to it? I'm working with oreilly media on a project to collect the ninety-seven things that everyday to engineer should know, and I need your help. Good data engineering podcast dot com slash ninety seven things to add your voice and share your hard earned expertise. When. You're ready to build your next pipeline and they're one to test out the project here about on the show. You'll need somewhere to deploy it, so check out our friends over at Leonard. With their managed could Brittany's platform. It's now even easier to deploy and SCALEA workflows or try out the latest helm charts from tools like pulsar to get you up and running in no time. With simple pricing fast networking s three compatible object storage and worldwide data centers. You've got everything you need to run a bulletproof data platform. Good data engineering podcast. Dot Com slash Leonard That's L. I N. O. D.. Today and get a sixty dollars credit to try out of Cuban Eddie's cluster of your own, and don't forget to thank them for their continued support of this show. Your host is Tobias macy inch today in Doing Simba Cutter about his views on the importance of L. feature stores, and his experience, implementing one at stream sequel so somebody. Can you start by introducing yourself? Yeah, Hey I'm some because. Because Khader. I`Ma, the CEO and Co founder of stream sequel. We're building features from Shimon as you said. Do you remember how you first got involved in the area of machine, learning and data management? Yes, so I, actually started out working at a small startup back in college in I used to do a lot hack fons had really been interested in distributed systems, so my first real role was actually at Google on whereas working on a cloud day the store and I, those love the system just because of how messy they are unlike ever fielded. There's never really a right answer. Everything's a trade off and on the machine, learning and I actually kind of fell into it because one of my friends ask me how him He was on a team of astrophysicists, and they were trying to find a planet on outskirts of the solar system. And they were like. Hey, we have all this image data. When someone like crunch through it like you have some time to work on that end, I, just kind of picked it up. This learned it on the fly in. Lots of the same things that made me love the series systems like how message off creativity that goes into it also exists for machine learning, so I kind of fell into it that way and fell in love with it for the same reasons, and so in terms of the work that you're doing stream sequel. Can you give a bit of description about? About what you've built there, and what motivated you to start the business? Yes, so shrimps open source feature store, and it enables teams to be able to share reuse discover features across teams models. Emma Journal. How works is like this I you connect your data sources wherever streaming or batch Kafka as three. Whatever you transform, join them as you wish using sequel. And then you define your machine learning features on top of sources from there you can serve those features our productions. You can generate training sets out of them. We also manages all the version and monitoring of the features, and you can even actually include like third party. Features combating or wherever they are whatever in a nutshell like the mission of it is to help commission learning teams folks building models Ravin pipelines. And got into I actually was at a startup founded the startup before this called Triton of a lot of media companies. We did all kinds of stuff. We really focused around the kind of be the subscription space. SOLAS pay walls in south law those us. Sorry and so lia. We did a lot of stuff around personalization propensity pay walls all the stuff that was powered by machine learning at their peak were handling like one hundred million monthly active users, and in I was looking into the data. Science teams in seeing how they're doing things that I realized that. Most of our time is actually spent building Lincoln spark jobs to the data. SATS in get features in productions and the whole process was so chaotic and. And hard to manage, but the problem was that the feature engineering. The stuff they were doing was actually what was driving the big increases, so it made sense so at the time like the term features wasn't really thing there wasn't really like if you googled feature star, nothing would really come up and go around, and and some other companies had talked about similar problems like Uber Michelangelo Airbnb had something called Zip line lift at something called a drift in. There's all these things like that. We saw and we. Were, looking for something open source that was good enough for our use. Case couldn't find anything in decided to build in house from there at one point I realized this was really like something special. That would really benefit our current clients in all kinds of ever people, so actually decided to take just that piece of that product, and to rolled out on company, which is now stream sequel, and before we get too far into what you've built there. Can you give a bit of a background about what machine learning feature is and some of the difficulties that people have in working with them in the sort of typical deployment, paradigm and typical workflow that they have for building machine learning. Learning models and serving them in production so I'm learning feature it. It's Kinda funny because there isn't really like it's Kinda like a a nascent. There's like a super clear definition for it. The Way I think about it is, she's malls. Essentially a function it takes an input or inputs and generates an output, so let's say like I'm spotify in launch to recommend some songs for you. The input will probably be me. The user and output should be the recommendations now if I give it that it doesn't really have much to work with a model if I just give it like a user id so usually what teams do is, they'll take user ID in kind of break it down into. A kind of user is the user's context per se, so you might say hey. What was the last couple songs this user listen to? What's your favorite genre? This gives them all context that can use to make a recommendation, so each of those things are features, so like for favorite Jonah could be made into a feature for the model, and it sounds kind of easy, but it's actually harder than that for example. Let's say I want to try to tell the feature the model how diverse a user's music taste is! Aren't exactly like a equation to like define like music taste, so you need to figure, wait creatively model that to give it to the modeled south, and so, what featuring is in terms of what makes that hard like why features hard to? Fiji Engineering, that's the basic part of what is a feature now generating a feature you really have to generate in two contexts varies serving context so for example by recommend a song for user now will venue just need to know the values of all the features at that moment in many situations, you have streaming data and you can't exactly especially if you're like spotify that you you. You need to recommend it now like it's. It's relatively low latency. You need to know all these features were more or less current value very very quickly so usually things are processed, so you something like flying to to process all the stream you come in and maintain all the values of the features so that you can just kind of pull him. Look up relevant trying to. Generate them at a recommendation time. So that's the serving part, so that's kind of hard hard enough, but there's also the training part so Mahsa trained by in this way, essentially think of it as via you give a model in the inputs that used to. And you give it the actual output. What actually happened so like? Hey, like here's all this information about a user at this point in time and here's like what they actually chose to listen to next. Then you would give the the modeled inputs you'd make it make a recommendation, and then you'd see you. Give it the actual value. Would change its self according to that to try to be better next time. That's how training happens in a nutshell now that means from the feature generation side I, not only need to be able to the features now I need to be able to generate features at any point in time in the past, so I need to say so that that's a whole nother problem Yousef. There's whole. Whole never pipeline there, so you end up all these ammo pipeline, some are streaming summer bath, some of for serving some of her training, and it's all kind of broken up across all these different layers in your infrastructure, and that's kind of the the problem that we we strive to solve, and so as far as the current approach that most companies use I know that it's still a. Burgeoning field where there are more people coming into it and more people building their own off-the-shelf solutions, so what is the typical approach to handle features and being able to provide them both for training in online contexts? Yes, so on online context usually sc one of two things. US It's ever on. The company has enough day that we're Pre process it. Van will go through Costco, whatever for a for the event bus and then. It will be processed by something like flying sparks streaming and kept maybe Cassandra read this the actual values of of the features so that you can just pull them very quickly, so will be the streaming side venue You have a whole never side, so l. domestic comment will also go into three or HFS or some sort of foul store and then you have a whole number pipeline on spark or some other bad streaming system that will generate all the training. So that people do today every single feature at the very least concern in twice once for screaming once for. Batch and then if you have a mix of streaming batch sources, you kind of have to double that up again. Then you end up with four different pipelines that's typically have people do today, so it can exist the link and spark, and whatever else use layer, and then in terms of feature store. How does that improve the lives of people working on machine learning models, and who are the sort of main downstream consumers of it, and who's responsible for building it and keeping it healthy. So in doing this. I've learned how in so many different companies for so many teams that have to go into like the process because we did engineering team, you need maybe ninety depending on how big your company is, you need. Itt infrastructure up in such actually generate your features. That could be the day the science absolves engineer is a mix of both, and then you have did analysts and other other teams also might add. Features are have to do with the mall themselves. So the way we think about it is relevant having such a low level. We allow people to define. First resources which you can generate from spark whatever you can do sequel on the sources so that you don't have to go down the you can make queries and write sequel regardless of things of streaming or batch, and we just kind of try unify were relatively generic to materialize views from there. You can define features an essentially Jason against configured and that means. Means that you have one feature definition that's used across all contacts over its training or serving or anything else from that feature, you can actually generate your training data sets, so you can give a set of features can give a set of label select the right answer, and then it will generate a training set for you. You can ask Haywire evaluate vs features. Features right now. We'll be able to do that in rural time, so the ideas that it lets things exist in one space revenue, being split across all your infrastructure, and its defining a very clear way beyond that we have a feature registry so that you can actually look for you can look at your features I can see Basic Cisco analysis of each of. Of, your features also search forever. The features of retains may be have used. You can pull a feature from another model. We think of features like the building blocks of your models, and so we built the whole platform to allow you to actually use them in that way rather than thinking of him in that way, but then having to define them at. The spark or flint level, and with using feature store seems that that provides a concrete interface for data engineers to hand off things to the machine learning engineers rather than having sort of a blurry line between where the responsibilities of one ends, and the other begins, and having to reach inside each other's workflows to ensure that the overall development and delivery of machine learning model is able to make it all the way through to production and. And I'm wondering what your experience has been in terms of how it modifies your own work, machine, learning workflows, and how it impacts the data, engineers who are supporting the raw data that are being turned into these features. Yeah, so when really cool part I think from data engineer side a lot of machine learning stuff makes no sense as had machine learning, for example like if let's say, I want to know the average price of. Of Us, her spent on the item will what do I give the model if it's no like has never bought anything in database, you just said as no, but for machine learning you might set as the median or to me or something else and so someone on the data. Jiang side has have like really archaic. Set a requirement so the hey, this is how the feature has to work I. Need to generate for training in. In serving in so vin after implement that, so this is nice because it let's not have to do that. They can just generate all the tables that are kind of generically needed a purchase table, or whatever else the day, the science team on the other hand, Pug, all that stuff, and now they have nice clean data sets, and they can define their features just more as a configuration sievers. No is much less code than it's. It's much more oriented towards their workflow. So all the generic feature engineering techniques are kind of built in everyone does the same thing you know? FILL IN MISSING VALUES NORMALIZE A number from zero, one or one or whatever room about liars, all that stuff? You have to built in so vacant think again at the configuration level, and they can just quickly ask things without having to know flank, having to know, spark and having to work at. At that side of the code base, they can kind of work agnostic love each other, which is really nice for both teams, and as far as the user experience of the data, scientists and machine learning engine years. You mentioned that there's a registry for being able to view the different features that have been defined, but a wondering what types of additional user experience improvements are useful or additional capabilities that are necessary for an effective feature. Feature store to be able to be useful and sort of maintain its overall health and utility within the system. Yeah, so one basic pieces version, which sounds like it should be a solved problem like version features, but the way most people verging now is just through it, so it's as you change, spark or whatever It just gets version than get. You can roll back in that way back to really messy especially if If you want to use a single version of the feature You're using feature from another team. You might want to make sure that you have the same version all the time, so if they changed. The pipeline doesn't break your model so versions a big piece. That's something that hasn't really been figured out much for 'em features in, it's it's a core component of of of our feature store. Never piece has to do with monitoring. Now features are obviously based underlying data underlying changes user behavior might change for example. Now in love, people shelter in place, so a lot of behavior in terms of buying things has changed dramatically in lots of models are probably underperforming 'cause they might have been trained a different context, so monitoring allows you to see changes happening, understand what's happening and be able to retrain or or feature accordingly to be able to handle those problems in the final piece has to do with train set generation are trained set generations implicit, which means you just tell us? What is a stream or a set of what actually happened and maybe a time stamp? and. We will generate features at each time stamp in mix of the label, so if building training sets which is like a core piece of the workflow rations cycles is as easy as just defining the feature in Jason essentially saying tolling the the train journey. Hey, I want to add this feature to this training set, and it just kinda happens. You don't really have to think about where to David. David is how can that transform it of US ever parts of it? It just becomes way faster data rate. We also backfill streaming data, which is never really nice feature, which means that if you're features stateful like average price spent per user. You don't have to wait three months to build enough data just will use historical data to generate the stateful feature. comes to speed up the cycle for teams. Especially when the date assigned side, which is really again, one of the core mission statements of stream sequel, and in the discovery piece, what are some of the useful pieces of Meta data that should be mapped to given feature, and what are the options for people defining the features for being able to define that Meta data in terms of the structure and content? Yeah, so one part is. Is is just literally what is today? The for example networks don't take strengths fake only floats or numbers, and so you can filter on that server as the piece of. Does this thing even fit into my model? So that's one piece. Another piece is the description which is playing tax now. This is nice. Because how many times are like? How many and how many companies does? Does exist where I a million definitions of essentially the same like how many items user bought like different databases will have different values across Oregon episodes, truly massive of tools, looker and bi tools and other things are trying to fix that problem. We're never part of that solution, so we can. If you bill the feature around other people can also use that feature or avenue. Avenue version to it, and that creates kind of a source of truth for your features on which is again like really really helpful for Emma workflow especially when you have multiple teams machine learning like engineering like especially in special mission, learning is such a new field that a lot of the processes are still being figured out so getting fifty people to work together on one problem is. Is Very chaotic and this becomes a piece where everyone can work together and collaborate and benefit from each other's work, and much easier with and digging more into stream sequel itself. Can you talk through how the feature store aspect of it is implemented and the workflow that it provides in terms of being able to defined features and then pull them into the models trying to build yes, so. So I around like deployment in stream sequel Daio and there's a Kobe's version that you can use as a frontier and then you choose where your cloud ws cloudy. Tell us we'll host it there. We also have no association that you can use. It's slightly less features, but it's still It's it's definitely use it for my my a local, a local machine, learning and And then finally times we actually deploy it in their cloud directly or on Prem, or whatever else the deployment aspect of it, though it works is three steps I you plug in your data, and so that could be. Maybe you're using Google pops up, so you say hey like this is a stream of data. School pups up. The format is Jason once you plug all the? The day the end you can choose to join in transform and all that data that you're getting it, and then the finer features defining features. It's our our main python, and you just define it in what looks like Jason, and that will define your features for you, and then you can use it for training sets and for streaming so then you have two main methods one is. Generate training set you give the features and a label which is again. A. Stream or file. That has the correct answers so to used for training, and we'll generate features at the point in time of each of those labels to train set for online features dot, get online features, a set of features on entities like the user ID, and we'll destroy that, so it's as easy as connector sources defined your features. Start using it for serving online day. The reds n generating training data sets. Sets and how is the underlying architecture of the feature implemented as far as being able to pull in the data and integrate it, and then being able to create and store the features for being able to be served up. Yes, so unlike feature sore two days built on top of a patch, pulsar flank, and Cassandra as the first layer is, is where events come in and where batch data. Kennel jobs. So all events on the Pulsar we, we starve him forever, so return them forever. regenerate stateful features We also have s three. If you just woN'T UPLOAD THE STRAIGHT UP FILE, or or or Whatever that plugs into link? We've linked to to do the sequel transformation to realize views angel also generate the training data sets, and then the online features are being constantly processes events come in, and the values are stored in Iraq Cassandra depending on the feature in the size of feature set, and so that's how it works today. it used to be on top gun? Messier just because we couldn't retain all of our data well, the Cooper pulsars it has infinite retention so every event that comes in we can keep forever, and we can actually offload tests three to lower costs and to increase scale ability. Yes, so that's that's how that's underlying architecture today and you mentioned you started on Kafka that you've got a fairly detailed blog post about your but ovation. Of Making the migration to using pulsar, and wondering, what are some of the other ways that the feature store has evolved since he first began working on it, and some of the original assumptions that you had going into it that have been invalidated or updated as you continue to build out the capabilities of the platform, yeah. I think a big piece of it. One thing we've learned is this. How machine learning is changing over time before? Most features are pretty simplistic that just like summations of everything user did. Maybe it's normalized nowadays like a lot of people are using embedding which are essentially factors that maintain a lot of dig inside of them so that you can turn user behavior into a single vector can do the same for items. It's very very common to do for taxed on like. Google has released all kinds of pre-trains tax that people use all the time. Burger is kind of like a new hot algorithm, but also generates beddings from your tax, and we have to learn how to kind of make it flexible enough where you could include all of these external third party features, and also able to so obviously do all the simple basic features, so that required a lot of changing the other piece that was interesting is one of the biggest problems I for us was around streaming batch data because they force us to kind create multiple pipelines so again like you have to all your passive answer store maybe in A. Three in and you use spark or something similar to generate a train data sets pipeline, the menu have flank, or whatever else taking in all the streaming data and generating your online features. And there's a whole kind of juggling. Act You to bear to every month. Create stateful feature went. Feature production, or whatever else so that was the core problem. We're solving at first rush. Ourselves bitstream sequel, and it's obviously a big problem, but we also learned that feature version sharing all this other stuff was kind of second order. They were things that became obvious that we can now do it because of how we decide to implement and realized that those value props for actually like what made this much more interesting for me in made me actually decide to spin off into his own business, because it kind of becomes a new way to. A new way to data scientists, she, learning a new way to think about features in general as as fundamental building blocks of your models river van. Just these inputs that you use to it outputs so that forces to change the whole model of made us think about what a feature registry would look like. Even let us think about. Hey, let's say there was no strong that we're just working on files and batch data. How can we meet this valuable So I think that that that learning in thinking in terms of what does a feature so really mean beyond like this beyond distracting way underlying. Underlying architecture Biz workings out really cool on where we have to make changes later to to fit that vision we have, and as far as the capabilities of the platform I know. One of the things that supports is being able to monitor features or freeze them in time and I'm wondering what are some of the influences that can cause a feature to drift, and what are some of the signals are metrics you look at in your monitoring. And how do you define the thresholds for determining when certain action a remediation needs to happen? Yeah, so features different types of features have different levels sensitivity. So if you take the average price user, spend or users have spent on something. If I use everything, anyone's ever bought, and you have a ton of data. It might be very very hard to change that if you're just taking the top song the last week or whatever? That's GONNA change quickly. So one is as I looking at how often do these features change in how often? Often did they changed? Historically? That helps us see how is trained on on at some point in time so once a malls trained it. It's kind of used to the features living as they were having the same star standard deviation, having a similar mean having similar kind of statistical Look on to it. What we're looking for is when things happen that quickly. Change Features A. A typically don't change. 'cause that means at the mall probably has never seen anything like that in a could cause the it's predictions have come really back again. Let's say is example I can think of because it's very relevant now. Is You know all of a sudden? Most of the US goes into shelter in place will ever ECOMMERCE recommend? System will have changed dramatically over input features. Features will probably have changed pretty dramatically. The way people buy things has changed the way people browse preference to. If they want to pick up in store or have it delivered, all the substance changed very very quickly overnight, and if you were to look at the input features for all those Mazda will have changed dramatically in the mall might start spitting out garbage because it just. It's it's not Mazar flexible to an extent, but most models will break down if you change a feature to dramatically, it just has never seen it before. So that's what we're looking for. We're just keeping track of Sandy. Aviation can track of averages if we see things shift really quickly in a way that is unusual for that feature. We will get to the user and they can tell us what they wanNA. Do Depending on Feature Vegas Friesen Hey. You know. What like for now until we fix. Fix this. Let's just if we see some you don't ignore, said to the average value whatever or they could just retrain, and they might actually change their features entirely like they might say are recommended system we want add a new feature, which is just the last three weeks of data sets that kinda catches the fact of whatever yet so that's that's. That's things that caused feature now people typically handle it typically just handled by re-training, changing the feature, freezing, place or it to ignore. Ignore changing your outlier detection so that you can just like. Keep it within range and on the burgeoning side of things. How do you approach being able to iterating on the different features and ensure that you don't accidentally introduce errors into an existing machine learning model? That's actively using a given feature. Yes, so when you add new version, you're typically gun train I. Now will. It will kinda give away. You usually would not put in new feature into production to serving it unless like you trained. Trained on it very exceptions for example. If you add outlier detection or whatever else you might one, you might be doing that to solve something you're seeing in production. The is power comes in two parts so one pieces a diversion teams will have to depend on that feature on. You don't WanNa if I'm a team and I have a mall depending on feature, I don't want people change. It can underneath me, I won't be able to depend on the current version and the incremented. I can see that and I can decide what I WANNA do somewhat changes they make the ever piece of features is sometimes. Some feature might look better for in a training set. like to train all this data. Feature looks like it's working really well. You put in production you AB. Testing may be against the old old model in your oh. This is actually not doing better in production, and this is part of what makes sharing messy is even if a mob looks like it's better than training an offline, it might actually worse online so it's really comedy. Just AP. Test your malls and online even if It should be better. Theoretically so just being able to roll back is really powerful. They're also having like a clear view of how this moss change feature has changed over. Time can help. People understand design Susan's. That were made wire things the way they are. It's like it just nice to have your features version in all in one place so that you can see what's happened. What's changed? What has mall changes? The has Sarah. As far as the integration process for working with data in stream sequel, you mentioned that the ingest pipeline is built on top of pulse as far as being able to get data into the give it source, and what is the interface for being able to merge data across different topics as it's being ingested by pulsar, and then processed by flink. Yes, so you. You can literally sequel as as you would expect to, so you could set to dependencies on two streams destroying them using whatever join you want about runs in link so we cleaned it up. We make it work the way expected to and then and then generate your features from that never cool part is the ability to join life for example. Example I might have a Disa- file of of items, every item in my ecommerce store, and have a stream of what users are doing like. They bought this item whatever and I can honestly join file in the Stream on which is also really nice thing to have. They just lets you as a is does not have to worry about underlying abilities of. Of your tools and have to think about where these things. How do I join them together? You destroyed sequel as you expect to. And then we can handle the majority the an averages case if we probably handle it if you're doing some really really specific than maybe it makes to go down to the level, but on average most days scientists are trying to. Join. Join different parts of different streams or or At the kind of Add certain extra data to a stream, and then as far as the materialization of the features. How are those stored? And how do you handle updates to those and being able to keep track of the different versions in the materialized locations? So there's actually there's a lot that goes into that, so you commit your life to fix really one is a stream a winds case we will take in your sources in. We'll will generate a new. New Stream impulse are from it, we'll give it a name such as version and insane with files or tables, we will generate a table and keep up to date in that way. East materialization actually exists to us as if it was any the stream or a native table, the differences that from your point of view you can't directly change it. You can only change his sources feed up through it if you change immunization new. At Sarah and if you have materialization materialization. Is kind of like a of. We started getting junk like the airflow. Dag Mall like we just start to beginning update. Everything updated wanted wants to stream is setup. We can generate the that depend on it, so it's kind of prosthetic, but the good thing is that it's really simple. It doesn't really break often, whereas if you try to be smart. GOTCHA involved. We play simple as possible. Every Democrat will build it from scratch from the sources and if. If it. If something's dependent on it will eventually from scratch, it's eventually consistent, so we'll let you know when it's ready to new version, but until then it will remain, the value will remain as old virgin do today, so it's it's a it's A. It's a process that we've built on top of airflow to make sure that stuff can happen in terms of the selection process for determining which components to include in the. The overall infrastructure, what was your guiding principle for determining build versus buy, and what was the necessary set of capabilities for incorporating into your infrastructure? Yeah, I mean we tried to build as little as possible for Lehrer show show our value. Prop isn't like we often hit certain levels of late levels of of capability, but mostly tools can handle that like pulse. You can build a system on top of fever it. It just harder in my experience. Both Kaufman was below pulsar, for example, so our guiding principles simplicity we want. We actually want any look into structure. It seems silly of components. are put together, but really would you want is suppose possible will maintaining its Riley reliability so everything we did was around, but in fact like remember the feature south. We built internally not because we want to do because we had to. Originally the old. Star where we built it, so I've always been a proponent of like figure out what you do, build that and use whatever you can off the shelf that you can't get. Your requirements met Sosa td kind of. Thinking of like haven swimmer requirements are had like there as fast in easiest possible, and then the other pieces simplicity because the simple something is you know it's like just simple so all of our structure choices? When we decided to switch things out, we look at what would life be like? If we had this other infrastructure and would it be simple? not would it be faster not with available town more. Whatever unless we hit a point where we need that? Usually we are simplicity almost any especially, the patchy tools like. It takes a lot to get to a point where they're. Able to handle what you're throwing it especially, if you take the time to configure it, and then something is so complicated configure that goes into simplicity problem again in may be may sense to us which it out, and in terms of the overall landscape, a feature stores. What have you used as reference material for determining how to go about implementing it, and what is the overall landscape look like as far as the availability of features stores for somebody to be able to pick up and us, and even just prior art it that is not necessarily open source, but at least has some sort of. Of White, paper or a reference architecture for being able to look at. Yes, so when we first looked up the problem, we actually landed on a talk on that someone from lift gave a things called strapping flank on the talk, and that gave us an idea of what the problem was. How we're solving also kind of foul data in our heads, that for wasn't something off the shelf that we could use to did exactly what we needed than. We would have to build if we want it. So the at left drift which talk is shopping flank airbnb. Has Something called the blind. which actually law that are decisions were influenced by Howard did their feature. One thing that makes their features store really unique in something that we also do is that it can generate training data sets implicitly you just give it a set of labels, and it will generate the train set for you over feature swords zone. Usually do that you have to. You can give at a time samples till you features at a time stamp, but it's your job. Job To generate the training set, so I was a number piece that made every music, really interesting one of the first to my knowledge when the first to talk about a feature store was uber. They built something internally called Michaelangelo. That yet that they've spoken on as well and I think that's one of the earliest cases of like a feature store like where someone actually define it as a feature store, with spoken about publicly. Soviets existing kind of the the proprietary domain, none of those are open sourced None of those are even like publicly available. You can't really use them. You can just look at their talks in how they talk about them. In terms of go, Jack would has open or something called Feast on what you can check out. They handle a lot of the kind of the Milan defining features You can't use it currently to generate a materialized views stuff on that sort on discovery, Sarah I'm so in the open source versus company calls Hopper hops works. Works that has built a feature service open source parts of it. You can check out and yeah, so like it's definitely becoming a really hot spaces Lov startups raising money now. kind of in this space as people are starting to realize that this should be a core piece of infrastructure, and what have you found to be the most challenging or complex aspects of working on or with a feature store as you build out the capabilities, extreme sequel, and use it for your own work for personal use and at Triton yet I think the hardest thing is. User experience when you're building, I mean I would argue most big data tools have a problem where they have to balance the ability to let you do everything you need to do, while also being simple to use if you just WANNA use in the most basic ways, so that's always something that is kind of a constant attention opening up more stuff, making more to nibble, but than making it much harder to use so of getting that developer experience down so that this becomes because again. The goal is to slap inmates ash learning. So. That's kind of our guiding Northstar so everything we do is thinking about things from that way, so that means that sometimes you know we will. There might be a way to feature if you have to do this very very specific. very maybe super, hyper, low latency feature serving like maybe like you don't use people for it because we're optimizing for the average use case, which is what the majority of people have, which is like? Hey, I have the status. I need to be able to generate this feature as fast as flanked can do it by the fall on is kind of kind of how we think of it so every the most challenging than expected parts have been. How are is unexpected? But I guess every time you start designing API or something like that like you feel like? Oh, I think I can do this I have a handle on it, but you always find the overs all this other apartments all the stuff that gets added on, and you know Zion Api's basic things like how the name things Sarah are really really hard, it's. Unsolved problems that every time you think you're. You got it, but every time you know so much learn in that space so much iteration to and as far as your own experiences what have been some of the most interesting or challenging or unexpected lessons that you've learned in the process of building stream sequel. It's I think it just comes down to? I think a lot of people think that tools are especially. New Tools are being pushed by hype and people think you can just if Ukraine of. Something people disuse in people. Point fingers all these technologies that. Only exist because of high, but I don't actually buy that. I think you really need a problem for someone you need to someone Be Able to use your tool and feel cool I love his why I would never not use the owes you sustain, and I think dislike getting back to your the fundamentals of like what you're trying to do and. Are you doing. How can you best? I think it's just like you'll feel like resist. Ways, you can just pull that off, but really like I. Truly believe over time like the best product will win eventually, and you know even like specifically like one practice paradigm will eventually fill up. They eventually. Some will get it right in. It will work so I think I'm kind of optimistic as like over over time, the best tools will end up being the tools that most people use and that we're moving forward constantly were not dislike kind of moving around quickly, and then for people who are working on providing data. Data to machine, learning teams or working as a machine learning engineer data scientist, what are the cases where either using a feature store in general or stream sequel in particular is the wrong choice. Yeah, I, think so one piece is. This is currently specific of almost every I think every feature store right now is they don't really handle image video audio images like is obviously a very core one. Because machine learning is image processing so feature stores varied. aren't really a space for also with certain types of problems like image. Image processing like the model. itself becomes really really important much more important to feature sometimes, so it depends problem space, but if you feel that the model is actually the most important piece that's going to drive the most the most performance gains van, a feature, probably easing out much for you if you're features are super super simple doing concentrating on the mobile, the other piece is if you're like. For example there, certain models have to be so low latency that they will actually put parts of the mall or the whole model on the browser for example ambers always like different deployment tools where where you're actually spitting across many different beyond just like different servers. It's hey. Part of his model runs on the browser small runs on the server on. It's era. We have stuff like that where it's like you're hyper optimizing for latency or something else especially late in see for for feature serving than a feature store is probably not gonna be able to hit the lanes you need. If you're going through jumping through hoops to get it, it will be. As fast as like a look up in Kazan fast as like Lincoln process, but if you're at a point where it just needs to be perfect or needs to be so so blazing fast. vignettes on threat tool you should should continue kind of building custody November's. Shelf tool you could use in that situation, and as you continue to use and improve the stream sequel platform. What do you have planned for the picture of the product? The core. Shrimp sequel is allowing feature engineering each generation to be something that is a simple unified process. So you know like you said We're constantly pushing the envelope on how complex it features you generate are. What kind of materialization you can make what kind of data sources we can handle and allowing and so everything we're doing is kind of expanding the feature set making it easier to deploy meeting easier cheese, but the guiding stars is is making it such that teams as a whole can all work together working building on machine? Learning is specifically to feature sets while for anybody who wants to get in touch with you or follow along with the work that you're doing. I'll do you. You add your preferred contact information to the show notes, and as a final question, I would like to get your perspective on what you see is being the biggest gap and the tooling or technology that's available for data management today. Yeah, I think unifying streaming in batch I think a lot of processing systems are trying to get their like flank has a batch API spark streaming, but it's just not there yet like we. There's so much work to do in that space to like. Have, a unified processing engine and I think that is a really big problem to solve doing it well and doing it In a way, that solves all needs, still useful That's where Finian jetting both. are kind of getting. But definitely I wouldn't say that it's as easy as just using one or two over all right well. Thank you very much for taking the time today to join me and discuss the work that you're doing onstream sequel, definitely very interesting problem space, and as you one that is becoming increasingly necessary as we move more and more of application logic to machine learning, so thank you for all of the effort. You put on that front end. I hope you enjoy the rest of your day. Listening. Don't forget the checkout or other show podcast dot net at Python podcast dot com to learn about the python language. It's community in the innovative ways it is being used. And visit the site data engineering podcast dot com to subscribe to the show. Sign up for the mailing list and read the show. No, he learned something tried out of project from the show and tell us about it. Email hosts St Engineering podcast. Dot Com with your story and to help other people find the show. Please leave you on itunes until your friends and coworkers.

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Netflix Cofounder On How To Turn Dreams Into Reality - Marc Randolph

The Mindvalley Podcast with Vishen Lakhiani

54:04 min | Last month

Netflix Cofounder On How To Turn Dreams Into Reality - Marc Randolph

"I don't know how familiar your group here is with our culture, but do they know about the Netflix expense policy? Now there is none. They know about their vacation policy. There is none. In fact, there are almost no policies that only policy is the same one use your best judgment. Love that I absolutely loved that that's such an incredible way running a company. I am mission Lucchini founder of Mine Valley the School for Human Transformation you're listening to the Minor League podcast. We'll bring you the greatest teachers and thought lead us on the planet discussed the world's most powerful ideas and personal growth for mind body spirit. The Saudi about to hear is a beautiful conversation wouldn't entrepreneur that you perhaps haven't heard off but you've definitely heard of this. Meet Mock Randolph. The CO founder and the first CEO of Net Netflix. Yes D- Netflix that product you probably spend one to two hours a day cooked on while you're in quarantine mark is incredible soul and I'm currently reading his book that will never work. That's the title of the book that will never work and it's just incredible books on entrepreneurship I've learned so much from Jess. First few chapters of this book. I'm fully cooked and I'm so excited to have mock randolph join us in this podcast. Now, what you're about to hear is a zoom conversation between me Marc. Randolph with close to nine hundred, nine dollars all access members tuning in live in interacting with mark and asking questions. This is a new format that we're doing those of you who are buying valley know that Mind Valley published some. Of the world's best personal growth programs and we have something call mind body all access where you get open access to ember thing. But it's more than that. All access is also a powerful community of just incredible individuals dedicated to personal growth and changing the way I do podcast now podcast now done in front of this live audience. So he nine hundred people communicating with me and mock. On June asking questions and it's just so much fun and what I found is that the podcast guests that I bring on, they are so much enthusiastic and they teach so much better when they know they have a live audience, it's amazing the difference to snakes. So we're going to be doing this off. Now if you want to find out more about mind all access you can get. Access to all programs plus joined live recordings with our guest. Go to mind. Deli Dot com forward slash access I repeat Mine Valley Dot Com forward slash access it is the best investment you can make in your growth truly the best investment in fact, I want to read you a letter that came in today this is from John New who's executive performance coaching Houston John This on our website One of the desk nineteen investments in my quest to transform my life to be the best version of myself, I found mind body all access what I'm hoping to be my best investment for twenty. Twenty. Domestic. Grow deeper into myself in being the best husband father and friend. So go check it out my dog dot com slash accessible. Now let's get started with the first CEO and Co founder of netflix Knock Randolph. Hi, everyone. Welcome to a really, really really remarkable conversation with a guy I cannot wait to bring to you meet Marc Randolph the founder of net flicks Marcus also the author of this book. That will never work mock. So here's what's really going on mark. I know you signed up for a podcast interview with Bobby Right Yeah I'm hesitant of what's really happening here. Well, I thought upgrade the experience a bit. So obviously mind belly has off the PODCAST that C every year we run a massive university project in Amsterdam or talent or another beautiful European city this year of course. Because Kobe it shut down. So we are conducting classes with real students with some of the world's most remarkable teachers and entrepreneurs every single day all on zoom, and rather than recalled you just one on one for a podcast. This is going to get tended to a podcast episode I thought why not have a live audience that we have seven hundred people on zoom watching us live today again. Because how often how often guys do you get to actually be live with the founder of what is probably one of the most favorite companies during quarantine net flicks? So mock firstly, I'm already to one of the book going onto trump did do I just started reading it today but I'm already in love with the book and I love how honest and you are and what I wanted to do here folks is have mocked share with you his story of becoming an entrepreneur, but not just an entrepreneur, an entrepreneur who built one of the most beloved companies in the World Right. Now, mock my first question was, what was it that made? You decide to go down that journey For me the decision to become an entrepreneur wasn't a decision at all. It was a compulsion if you could call it that I mean for as long as I can remember, always been summoned who was drawn to unsolved problems to seeing things as an opportunity waiting to be taken advantage of I mean seriously, you know I was one of those people who even when I was probably seven or eight years old in this kind of way to make money where I was selling seeds, you go plans from like door to door. and. For some crazy reason by found even that fascinating and I began experimenting what can I do Bundles? If you buy this, you get this just because I found that whole challenge of getting better at something exciting and that has never stopped. Of course as I've gotten older, some of the challenges that I felt equipped to take on a little bit bigger. I began accumulating a whole gang of people who felt the same as me that I could drawn to help me. But you know the things that droid, it'd be an entrepreneur. In fact, the things that make you a good entrepreneur really start very early or can be started at any time. It's an innate thing. I like what you just said can be started at any time when I was reading your book. One of the things that struck me is that we so used to hearing stories about I call it this sucker Berg effect right way. So used to thinking that if you want to build a massive company, you have to be in your twenties like mock soccer but you came up with the idea for Netflix when you were almost forty yeah it's true and I certainly work with. The company that I did after Netflix's looker which was in some ways at least for the founders of bigger success than net flicks we started and we were in our fifties, and so this is not necessarily a young man's game and these skills can be done at any time. You know the key is to start and the reason that a lot of people don't start companies the role there is not custer not capable of it. Many ways they're more capable it said it gets scarier. All of a sudden you have a mortgage and you have kids in school and taking those risks becomes a little bit more challenging but there's there's ways around that too. But you're right. You're either thirty eight, you can do it anytime. So what found fascinating about your story is that that's the story in your book of how you a ride sharing with repasts thinks the other CO founder up Netflix's and you guys used to get together and Khampool carpool somewhere in the bay area. In every day you would pitch read a new idea and I think one of the ideas was customized baseball bats. Another one was customized shampoo by delivery. What was going on their first thing you have to know is it Netflix wasn't mice I company was my only company. It was actually my sixth companies I've been doing this for a while and the previous company had been sold to the company that reads started and that's reading I became friends. And then that company was sold someplace else and then the really fortunate thing happened, which is both read Ni- were fired. I mean not in the bad way your FA-. Not In a bad way we were fired in that merger way where they say we really don't have room for you guys but there's golden handcuffs you've got to stick around. And immediately for me, it was like great I have time to do another company and read was not quite in the same place. He won't change the world. He was going to become an educational flint therapist, but you know once you're once you're an entrepreneur, you can't walk away and so he wanted to kind of keep his hands in the reignite had this agreement. We'd with an idea together and the he would be my angel investor and that I would start run the company. But then of course, as you mentioned, we need the idea. And read and I lived in the same town and had gotten in the habit over the previous six to nine months of carpooling to work together every day, and we still had to go to this company while this deal was working out. So we had an hour each direction in the car. To come up with an idea for a company. And at the time, this was nineteen, ninety seven. This was not long after the Internet was starting to become ubiquitous and it was very very early in particular in the e commerce world people were just starting to realize you could actually sell things over the Internet and my background my first fifteen years of my career I was a direct mail person. Catalogs mail order the science of selling things over the mail and when I saw the Internet I went. Oh my gosh. This this is even more powerful than catalogs and direct mail. So this is a long way of saying my criteria for a company was has to sell something over the Internet. And maybe it should have personalization involved and that was it. This was not like read an I would spend our time in the car debating who the best directors and French Cinema Oh we normal guys with normal tastes. We were just looking for an opportunity to sell something on the Internet and you're right. One of them was personalized sporting goods either surfboards or baseball bats. I really loved the shampoo idea. Because the idea was that you here here's the pitch. I can't help it. You cut off a lock of your hair and mail it to us, and then our team of ace hair scientists that is formulates the custom blends just for you. And then you See that you were in direct mail. There you go. Wait there's more now. A read of course is a bit more analytical about this and he goes that's not gonna work, and then of course is very cut and dry way here's all the reasons a bad idea. So right the next idea was even better. personalized. Dog. Food. You tell us your breed, their age, their gender, their activity, what climate etc, and we formulate the custom blend of dog food. And he didn't like that one either. So, then another one video rental by mail. And in some ways that was the stupidest idea of all I mean, there was a blockbuster on every corner who's going to want to do mail order video rental. And even more. So you know video is big vhs cassette so that idea to got shelved. But you know all of these were interesting but the thing that finally broke it open didn't happen that moment it happened a few months later when all of a sudden read mentioned, he'd read about this new technology called the DVD. Little, small flat, and then sure how many students CETERA. Right looks like a music cd of ever knows what that. Looks like a beer coaster that people can relate the average age people listening forty. So we get up we know the Thank goodness. Okay. But anyways, the DVD came along and we were reading about this thing and if it had just been that. Nothing would have happened but instead it reenergize something that had happened a few months ago, which has all the research I had done into video rental by mail using VHS and I describe it sometimes as that experience we've all had we are cleaning up your living room and you move the couch you find an old piece from a jigsaw, puzzle? And you go what is this you go? Oh, that's the missing piece from the causal I was working on two months ago. And that's what happened. We realized this unlocked that old video rental by mail idea. But that wasn't the key the key was that instead of all of a sudden going okay. Let's go to the office and put together a pitch decker. Let's go write a business plan. We immediately said, well, how can we validate this quickly and easily? And so right in the middle of the commute we just turn the car around and drove back down to the Santa Cruz where he lived. and. Tried to buy a DVD it. Of course, there weren't any so settled on buying a used music, CD And a few doors down and bought a little gift envelope a little pink envelope licking a greeting card in. Put the CD in the envelope and mailed it to reads house in Santa. Cruz. And then the very next morning when he came to pick me up, he is held up a little pink envelope with an unbroken CD in it got to his house and less than twenty four hours. And you know and screenwriter speak they have this thing called the incenting event. And if there was ever an event that started something, it was that moment and that really was the time that both read and I, looked at each other and said. this might work. That's amazing. Isn't that ever GONNA produce in origin story NETFLIX'S ORIGINAL Well you know. That's seen as descriptive. Yeah. I just need to figure out who's going to WHO's going to play me. That's going to be the big problem. Could he guys spink should play mark given given how he looks right now who is the? Most looks like. In the comments you cared play me as a sixteen picard can't play me as a sixty two year old bald guy. You GotTa play me as a thirty eight year old Vero Man So so I'm seeing Bruce Willis Brad Pitt rescue no Patrick's day the school you are right now Chris elsl about that. Okay. I can Chris is Lhasa. Brad Pitt. I get a little old now to go eaten mybookie but Michael Keaton just played the founder of McDonald's right. So he's he's done a sheriff. I found the stories. I was also thinking Jonah Hill kind my outside choice anyway. So that's amazing. Now, what would be a message to the people in the audience? So I know you're probably to mind bobby, but we are like the net lakes of. I've literally been studying Netflix's and looking at how can be created the same similar style of platform combining Netflix's with facebook but for the entire. Space. Now one of the things though is that the average person who's watching here is around forty sixty percent of them entrepreneurs or lead us with companies. So this is a very intelligent high level crowd. That's why they are tuning in what would be your message to the aspiring entrepreneurs listening right now who are waiting in an opportunity or plane with an idea, but just don't know how to move to the next step. is a pretty straightforward piece of advice N- it's pretty simple, which is you have to figure out how to quickly easily and cheaply get your idea out of your head. And collided with reality in someplace, it is the single biggest flaw that I see every entrepreneur, every age commit. is they leave the idea in their head and I understand why it is safe there and it's warm and it's nourished in your head and in your head where it's not subject to outside forces, it can become so successful and you can imagine it getting bigger and bigger and bigger, but I hate to break it to you. You're wrong. There's something you're missing and it happens to all of us, and it's that fear that keeps us from starting and if I have to point to the one thing that I've gotten really good at over the years is getting over that fear of taking an idea which I know is flawed and putting it out because then I get told why it's flawed and more importantly, they point out exactly what the floors arm so I can reformulate it try it again. And the trick is not having the idea. The trick is how quickly and how cheaply and easily and how cleverly you can figure out a way to take an idea and tested. You can rapidly prototype it and test it correct and you don't even need to do it for real people get hung up on this whole minimum. Viable product thing is ridiculous. WHO said it has to be viable. It just needs to be something that stimulates what the problem is you're really trying to solve. Specific detail. What I mean by this. Okay. So had a young woman I do a lot of work with university age people, and then she had this idea she goes wouldn't it be great if we could do kind of peer-to-peer clothing rental? Which is where I have in my closet all this clothing I don't wear my friends do we'd love to be able to business she sang where can I find a technical co founder? How do I get the money to build the APP? Bubble. and. I'm going no no, no, no. No. Let's figure out a way to figure out whether what you're thinking about as any reality to it and I go jeff piece of paper. She goes. Yeah. Of course a good. Yep a marker goes. Yeah. I go make a sign that just says need bar close knock and put it in the outside of your dorm room door and. We're GONNA find out in a few hours whether your ideas viable or not. because. You're going to see first of all does anyone knock and if nobody knocks while you've learned something right there. Now, if they do knock, you're GONNA learn about. Is there a size issue as there a taste issue? And if no one borrows from you, we've learned something right there. Let's say they borrow from you. Now, how do you feel about it comes back stained or comes back torn? You'RE GONNA learn all of that for the price of a piece of tape and in one piece of paper. Now is that scalable? No is it repeatable? No is it a quick cheap easy way to hack whether your core concept has any validity to it absolutely. And I've learned you can use that method for any idea I mean maybe if your ideas to build a next generation cat scan device, it doesn't work listen. That's not what your ideas are. It's a way to get started. Start Start Start Start. If you're waiting to hire someone you're wasting time you're waiting to complete some education. You're wasting your time for waiting to raise money you're wasting your time. Start. Wow give us an example from one of your other companies. Talent you prototype and test idea. I'll give Netflix's example. It was a learning experience. You know I was telling you how this initial idea was video rental by mail, and you may not know that for the first ten years Netflix did not have streaming Netflix. Mailed people DVD's in the mail. And the beginning when we first launched, there was due dates and there was late fees and all those people who said that will never work. Well, they were right. It was a terrible idea. It didn't work nobody what happened no one rented from us, and if we could get him to rent from us, they would not read a second time. It took us a year and a half. Of Experimenting to Finally Stumble on the business model that was repeatable and scalable but at first everything was broken, it wasn't like I had didn't have enough ideas of things to try the problem I was too much of a perfectionist. So each of these tests that we come up with would be these works of art. You know. I'd commission custom photography and weed out these sessions or argued over every word of copy and we have to stress test. The site would take us three weeks. And then we launched the test and it fails. And Go, Oh, that was a waste of time and go faster and we do it in two weeks and fails go faster. We do test every week and it fails, and then pretty soon we're just throwing crap at the wall we're doing tests in an hour and there's misspellings and Typos in the wrong image dream were crashing the site and we'd dead links. Because we're not worried about these things were testing. Are they really going to work if someone accepts them were trying to see if there's glimmers of appealing to somebody. But what happens is if you have a bad idea, no matter how much Polish goes with the test doesn't make it a good idea but if it's a good idea. Then even this terribly implemented immediately shines and then you know what to fix, and so the insight for Netflix which infected the whole culture was that it was not about having good ideas. It was about the system and a process and a culture for testing lots of bad ones. Wow that's a really really beautiful insight. WAS THAT BUSINESS MODEL ship? What was that strategic ship that made it take off? It was something that I should have known. It was three different things. I said, we're doing art rental were basically you rented something a DVD and you pay the due dates and late fees and and then we said. I was one day in our warehouse. But at that point, you probably had several hundred thousand DVD's in this huge warehouse. And I. Remember what read and I were talking about it no saying it's kind of a shame that we have all these DVD's sitting on these shelves doing nothing. Wouldn't it be kind of interesting if we could figure out a way to store them at the customers houses let them keep them. When they're done, they mail it back. We'll just replace him with another one. And that was kind of interesting and then we had another idea which. But then if they do that and they've gotta come to the website and pick the next dvd they want, let's make a list. And then as soon as one comes in, we can instantly mail on the next on their. And then here's the one that I should've picked up. I had been in the magazine business I'd done subscriptions. Why charge them each time they swap a disk let's just charge them a flat monthly fee and they could exchange as often as they want. When we tried all three of those things rolled together. It instantly worked mean boom. It was like people say Marcatti of no at product market fit looks like why go you can't define it it's like pornography you can't define it, but you know it when you see it and. Boom off this thing and that was the moment that really in some ways netflix stopped being a startup started being a a real company and then from then on, it was skipped everything else out of the way abandoned all a cart abandoned everything, which is in focusing on this one core concept, and that is the concept that an instantly scaled us up. They were subscribers there was huge virology. We actually could provide this service. We charge more that cost us to do it, which was a novelty in that day if you may remember what it was like back, your two thousand. So it was kind of the moment that transformed the company and it set the stage for transition to streaming. It's allowed us to establish this one on one connection with the customers. It gave them trust that we could generate an find content that they'd like and delivered to the. MAZING. Amazing now. To know something else what was it that spot that idea would net flicks to go into original programming? How did that evolution happens? It's funny though I mentioned the book called that will never work and there was two reasons that was the case and everyone told me that I'll never work my investors, my employees, Eve, my wife, and that everywhere but they had two reasons and one. was. The one I mentioned before which is that there's a blockbuster in every corner nine thousand blockbuster stores. Why would somebody WanNa do mel by mail? The other reason though was that DVD is a digital medium and we knew it's just a matter of time before people could either download or stream, and so everyone was saying watch just imminent before that happens and in who needs DVD's. And we knew that they were right and that inevitably it will happen but we also knew it was gonna take a while and we thought a long while. and. So we realized that if we could not build a company that was built on the delivery mechanism could not be Netflix's the fastest shipper of plastic. But neither could we BE NETFLIX? The streaming company because back then in nineteen, ninety eight, you can't stream. There's no bandwidth drm none of these things existed. So, we had a couple of the positioning which was avoided that altogether and live positioning was Netflix is a great place to find stories you love. And that works it works whether you're getting plastic at works with you're getting it delivered over the web. It works when we can figure out how to beam it telepathically into people's fillings or whatever is the future brings. But we that had to make that real. At at the beginning, making it real men having every single copy available, and then making it real meant coming up with an algorithm to help predict what you might like. But then it became make our own content. At driven, of course that was happening in the industry, which is that at first you get. Rights exclusively to a movie for streaming, and then the studio said, this is crazy. Why am I doing this I'm GonNa make it. Every single streaming service simultaneously gets that movie and all of a sudden you've gotta figure out a way to differentiate yourself. An HBO had written that playbook and we just followed in their path and said. This works in both dimensions. Let us differentiate ourselves and. It supports our core brand promise, which is we're gonNA bring you great things to watch and I'm loving it. I'm loving it like during quarantine Netflix's was how I spent so much time bonding with my kids work ten hour days, and then I'd go and sit in front of Netflix with my children and watch favorite shows for those of you who are listening to this share, your favorite Netflix series, your favorite Netflix's original series. I'm curious right now we're in warrior nun. Okay. Mock I have a couple of questions from the audience. So mark, I want to read out the first question it is from. M W and M. W. S.. Mock what was your favorite company to stop and how did that change your view of business? That's like asking me which of my children is my favorite. You love them all for different reasons. A pick one and I won't pick net flicks. I, mean Netflix's certainly the most visible success. But I'll say that the most recent one which was looker looker data it's called was probably the favorite because. We designed that myself in two CO founders designed it from the very beginning. To fit with how we wanted to work. We are at a stage in our life and we were old enough to have enough influence with how we wanted to fund it, and how we wanted it to be the terms for the employees and what kind of culture we developed and more. Importantly, we knew how to get those things. I. Mean a lot of people say I want a certain culture but don't have. The skills into -sarily to make that become true and this was the right time in my life where I kind of knew what I wanted and Phil they had the ability to do it. But as to what I learned is an equally important lesson. So looker was eventually founded to be almost a lifestyle business was designed to be almost entirely online so that we can run it from our homes from our hometown. Sell it for one, hundred, forty, nine dollars a month. And it. DidN'T WANNA. Be that product looker had different ideas for itself than what we wanted for us. and. It ended up not wanting to be one, hundred, forty, nine dollars a month product. It wanted to be one, hundred, forty, nine, thousand dollars a year product or one point, four, nine, million, dollar a year product, and that is now you run all on the web from your home. It pulled us into totally different directions which ended up being fun in an itself. But the big lesson there is you can do everything you want your children do grow up to be different than perhaps the thing she planned for them. And Look you ended up selling to Google yet to go the for two point, six billion dollars. So certainly was a great. I don't do these things for the money, but it's more importantly a really chance to demonstrate that a lot of things we did that people said you can't do. Actually now, what was the idea behind looker the original idea that sparked the company The CO founder Lloyd Tab, who is the CTO? The real visionary behind it? was solving problems for himself. He was curious about how to understand the data better in the companies that he had been working before. and. He couldn't find a product which would allow them to really understand what was going on and so of course, he did the thing that a Lotta clever engineers do is go well, I'm just GONNA. Bright. Something, myself. Any, wrote something totally different. He wrote a language for doing analytics and I hadn't existed yet and he did the same thing that I would have recommended. He just took this raw product again, giving it to his friends and saying, try this out minoshe. Thank he began putting it out in the real world early and getting feedback, and that's when he came to me and said people really like this I think this is not just a feature or a product. This is a company. Let's do something. And that's where it went and it was a waitress basically to help people understand their company's data a little bit more easily and a little bit more accurately. That's amazing. So look now powder Google cloud, but those two who are wondering it's L. O. K. E. R. DOT COM so on Jeff for K.. Announce that name, right Judah asked what's the biggest difference in stopping the first company and starting your most recent company as an entrepreneur what should what is a ball? So the world is completely different. Now I mean, the first company was the first web company. Let's call it that way that generation Internet generation company. That was twenty plus years ago, and the world was a pretty different place. The net was in its infancy and a lot of ways. So back then if you wanted to do A. Internet company which we did and you want to have a website yet a build it yourself I, mean, there is no squarespace there. No. Instantly dialing up and getting a ECOMMERCE store, you had to write the code. You could not host it in the cloud. You had to have a rack of servers that you had to do yourself. If you wanted redundancy, you had to build it yourself. You wanted security how to build it yourself. You wanted a payment gateway you had to write the code to connect yourself to the credit card companies, the banks. Everything was manual. So as a result no, it took. Netflix. Six months. When we started until we actually launched this rudimentary ECOMMERCE website. It's the kind of stuff that you could do now in a couple of hours. So the technical infrastructure was much more primitive and the second thing of course was the economic infrastructure as much more primitive. There was not this vibrant angel community. There was not this nicely segmented venture community which had companies focused on early stage investment. Back, then you were going around pulling in relationships trying to convince late stage companies do early stage investments and all that different. Now, you want to try something. You can in a few hours again, set up an instance of a website with ecommerce it has testing. It has payment that as security of redundancy, which the affective thing that's done is not just shorten the time to start a company, but it's dramatically shortened the time distance between idea and validation. I mean for us the time distance between idea validation was six months and two million dollars. Which means that to take that chance? We had to be thirty eight years old and both of us me and read had had this track record of success enough to get people to bet that much money us. Now since you could do that in a few hours for twenty five dollars, it eliminates that piece of it anyone contrived try these things you can be seven years old you could live in Kamchatka whatever chocolate is it's completely democratize the ability to start. That is the most exciting thing that's happened in the last twenty years at McGill, ask how you come up with the name net flicks. What most people learn pretty quickly as naming a company is brutal, is that you have this great name and you go on and look go taken. Oh I can get the domain name I want Oh but its trademark. Oh No, I want the twitter I went it turns out its own. So hard name a company these days, and it was just almost as hard twenty years ago and you know even worse you cope with the name and you're all excited you get the domain name you can get the twitter, get all these things and all of a sudden you realize it means go screw yourself in. Turkish or something so. So. That's out the window. But Anyway, I got this great advice from a mentor of mine early on and he said when you're starting your company by the way background here, initially accompany. You don't have the name at first, but you still have to pay people and get a lease and you need a name. Yeah. But call the Beta name. Here's your Trivia. So the Beta name for Netflix was kibble. KIBBLE, DOT com. That is what we used. We started the company to it, the lease nats recalled, and in fact I still own that domain name I think market kibble still comes to me. But the advice I got was pick a Beta name so bad. That when you come time to really pick the name of your company. You're not tempted to use it because the real name is so hard. And, of course. Comes time the name, the company, and we got a whiteboard and made two columns in the left column were names that felt like reflected the international. Royal Web or net or whatever, and the other side were names that kind of reflected maybe what we're doing video or movies or TV. And we took this huge combination and made all the combinations of them, and then I began doing the work trying to find one or get the domain name and get all the associated trademarks, etc.. And I couldn't find anything that I liked. And Netflix was one of the names on the list but people did not like it and what they didn't like about. It was at flicks part. Some of us are old enough to remember that back at the Dawn. Of Video Age here, Porno was sometimes called a skin flick. and. So people are going flicks get a and that xe is sounds like. You know talking about pornography and so people didn't like it but we got to this point. We couldn't find anything else we liked and so we had a vote. And you know netflix sounded a little corny but it was the best we could do and so I love that. Must Line Netflix sounded little pony, but it's the best we could do so up in coats. So one of the books I ever read about Netflix was having mccord's powerful, right? You guys can see that on the screen behind me by the way this is an amazing book I take it. You probably work closely with Patty absolutely one of my best friends. That's amazing. So Patty really influenced the Mining Valley Culture a book powerful was something I make all my managers read and I wanted to ask you. was there some magic ingredient about the net flicks culture that you read and Patty within the company that made it so successful and is it something that you can share with us as entrepreneurs? Absolutely and it's probably going to surprise you in that. Netflix is famous for his culture is famous in particular for its culture deck. But. The key thing is that culture is not what you say culture is what you do. And Tony People get that confused. They get all worked up about these aspirational thing is what are we want to become? But. That's not what culture is. Culture is how you behave and more importantly culture almost always springs from the beginning from how the founders behave from how the founders tweet each other and their employees and themselves and their customers and people model that and listen any of us who have children know exactly what I'm talking about you know you can talk all you want about certain principles, but your children are watching. and. The things you do resonate much more loudly than the things you say and businesses are no different. What's unique about? Netflix's not that started with this great culture. The what's unique is that they managed to hold onto it, and if you think about the core tenet of the Netflix's culture, which is sometimes called freedom and responsibility. It's not a crazy thing and it comes from the fact that when a company Star says, only a handful of people trying to do the work of ten handfuls. and. When it's like that, you just do not have time for a command and control structure. All you can do is say Oh my gosh. Okay. You see that mountain over their vision. AMIGA there in. Two weeks. And you're GONNA figure out the most appropriate way for you to get there. But when you get there in two weeks, expect you to have the following things done. And then off, you go love and you're GonNa bump into things or unanticipated unexpected. You're going to change course you're going to be bloodied and bleeding and bruised, but you're going to show up on top of that mountain in two weeks with the things done needed to get done i. gave you the freedom. To figure out the best way to get there by yourself but the responsibility to all the rest of us to have your part finished. Now that's really common. In a seven person startup. But as companies get bigger, something interesting happens one day. Have we seventy employees or seven hundred and someone shows up late? And the CEO well-meaning Lee goes. ooh That's not good. Okay. We can't have that happen again here's is going to happen I need all of you to report in regularly. So I know if you're GONNA be late. So status reports please. And everyone goes. Status reports Oh okay and then mother to later someone shows up on time they overspent. And the CEO goes. That's not good. Okay, how about if we all approval expenses over X.? And Pretty soon, you got this thing which used to be fast moving and flew at unable to handle unexpected things, and now you've bogged down but a worst thing has happened. which is all these people who love the fact they were given the freedom to do it their way with the responsibility of getting it done. Hate that. And they leave or you can't attract new people and you end up with a company full of people who are grace with all kinds of constraints, guardrails and what Netflix did, which was special in different is designed to company not to protect itself from people with bad judgment. But to support and act people with great judgment. And that is easy for me to say incredibly hard to do. I don't know how familiar your group here is with our culture. But like do they know about the NETFLIX's expense policy? Now they're it. There is none. They know about their vacation policy. There is none. In fact, there are almost no policies that the only policy is the same one use your best judgment. Love that I absolutely loved that that's such an incredible way running company now think. That's name of the person who's asking this question. Say's how'd you manage your company employees maintain an ongoing operation in revenue while going through so many pivots. Have I say this? So it's A. It's a mentality. There's two things if I twenty, but I'll name to the first is that you find people who are by their nature drawn to that style of working, which is when they come to something. That's unexpected. They don't freeze they lean in and as I mentioned, I was thirty eight when I started Netflix's and I had a bunch of other stripes had done and I'd found people who felt the same way I did. Who I knew loved that style of if it's different today than it was yesterday love it. I'll learn something new as opposed to being paralyzed and ensuring that your company culture stays like that is the key to remaining nimble, which these days is more important than ever. Companies get stale, they get successful they go. We've had the same business quarter after quarter and they bring all these people in who are fantastic at finding efficiencies and shortening supply chains and improving margins and those people are fantastically brilliant and talented until the whole thing shifts. And then they're like during the headlights. So that was one way I manage this. The second way was a doubling down mentality. Law I'll give you an example. So early on I mentioned way back beginning we not only rented DVD's sold them to and at the time it was a afterthought because we're working all this effort finding DVD player owners let sell to them to. And unfortunately, it was extremely successful. So successful that only a few months and ninety somewhat percent or revenue came from selling DVD's. And it was a disaster because we knew it was just a matter of time before other people sold DVD's, and it would be a commodities business in our margins. Go to zero won't redone. And it also distracted us from getting rental right confusing. It was really hard to get a reporting. Correct. And we knew we had focus on one thing and get one thing right and the trick was which one. And if we had focused on selling, well, that would have been great because that was paying ninety percent of our salaries. But distracting us from focusing on what we knew was the ultimate long-term goal, the business but it was very, very scary to say we're going to focus on rental when that was not working and showed no signs of working. But that's the nature of being an entrepreneur is you're prepared. And more interested frankly in taking the long shot. At would could be a big success rather than taking the safe route. Toward mediocrity or more likely failure. And so we did one day said. All right. We're all in and we walked away entirely from selling DVD's and focused everything on rental and I gotta say that. When you in a single day walkaway from ninety percent, a year revenue. That's a pretty effective way to focus your mind the problem ahead of you. I love that so much so much debt in that on sir, and it's really got me thinking about certain sacrifices that I may have to make my distance as well. It's really really hard but fundamentally, the hardest decisions you're going to have to make is what you're not going to do not what you're going to. We used to call it Netflix's. Scraping. Barnacles off the hall. Because, over time all these little ideas too slowly. But Surely Crete and they're all tiny in -SEGO will even they are or they have some customer who likes it? and. You don't realize that over time all those things are slowing you down because you have reverse compatibility problems or you have code issues and you've got to start every meeting where you're going to think about what you WanNa do with a discussion about what are we going to stop doing isn't it's a plan. The next question is from anonymous anonymous. Original name and this person is asking what if net thoughts to give education entertainment? Well, I would hope mean last night we watched was athlete A. Player athlete a which the documentary about the US gymnastics program and the abuses that took place there and think that's not educational is a mistake but I know what you mean you mean more classical masterclass style or Your style of education. I don't envision it again I don't work at the company and I haven't worked in quite a while. So I don't have any direct incitement with they're thinking they could surprise me by some big announcement tonight at the earnings, but I would be very very surprised and the reason is focus focus has been in our DNA since the very beginning focus has been our culture from the beginning focus has sprung from how I behaved read behaved the company behaved. and. Here's another story. This is the Canada principle I call it. It's about focus and it's about why not education? And early on everyone said, you should be in Canada. We were only in the United States. And we go. Why Go Canada ten percent bump easy. You know the right next door you can mail. But you began looking into it you go. Well, yes but it's not the same language. They do speak French in Canada. In fact, it's governmentally mandated that you have to keep things in French for certain provinces and the currency. Yeah it's called the dollar, but it's a different currency, etc etcetera etcetera and you realize that. Pursuing that ten percent. If you used that effort and focused it on your core business. You'd get way more than ten percent return. And it meant saying one time another good idea. Yes. But the better idea the best idea the right idea no. And held off for a long long long time education is probably in that category. Good idea. Would it work probably? But. is at the right place to put priorities as opposed to focusing those same smart people on making your core business better on making the experience better for a hundred and eighty three million other people. Almost never. That's amazing. Mark. Someday I'd love to show you what Mine Valley is doing with. Education. I'd love to see it and you know the longer stays away probably the better. Yeah Bush firm for sure. So as we come to the end of this conversation, tell us a little bit about what are you most passionate about right now, this question is from Melanie who's watching? What's your biggest passion? Surprise you perhaps robotics. No, that's surprise. It's going to be it's nothing like I. Think you'd expect from the very beginning. My big focus has been on balance in not guessing you here since I was in my twenties I've learned dawned on me that I was not a whole person if I was working all the time. Especially, a once I got married and especially once I had kids I go. You can't. Have business success be the metric for success in your life. And from the very beginning, it's been about at back. Then it was debating this vow to myself. That was not going to be an entrepreneur on their six company and on their six life. And I would do all these things to make sure that happened this policy it Netflix's where every Tuesday at five o'clock sharp out the door for a date night with my wife and for those of you who are now running businesses, you know that's hard there's a crisis in Nope we're going to wrap it up by five. Your you've got to talk to you mark great on the way to the car. But after a while people learn you're serious and they stop asking any more important again cultures what you do. Now, what you say, they begin realizing this whole thing that keeps talking about balances, Israel. And the other part of balance for me is recognized as size family is his personal. I caught feeding the rat is getting out and doing these for me. It's mountaineering and climbing and mountain biking and back country skiing and these things that I know make me whole. So what am I interested in is mastering balanced it's up that judge myself all the time ended every week. How did I do month? How do I do every year? How did I do I actively plan? What can I do to make sure I. Get this right and you know people say Are, really curious someone asks the beginning about the company's favorite company to start Robert was with like what I'm most proud of, and it is not that I'm most proud of starting netflix's it's not proud of the exit to Google. The pride from my career as an entrepreneurs that I've managed to do all those things. Staying, married to the same woman having three kids who know me and as best as I can tell like me. That is an accomplishment that I've worked really hard at and then I'm proud that I accomplished I left that Ma at such a beautiful statement. Tell us about the one percent project. You know is it might flow from the fact that I'm a outdoors person. I've recognized that these places that I've been taken for granted my whole life are under threat and kind of as my passion. It's doing what I can to protect natural spaces in one of the causes that I support for heavily at I'm on the board is called one percent for the planet, which basically says that all companies have an obligation. To, pay an earth tax more or less to basically represent they use resources and they have to do what they can to support this, and it's a pledge that they'll spend one percent of their revenue not the Prophet. On. Environmental nonprofit work. It was started by launch noord founder of Data Goania, and it's now expanded more than thousand other companies in the country and all over the world which are all saying we do want to give back and support it i. really applaud the fact that you can actually have a business. And recognize that you can make space to help the natural world is well. That's amazing. Mark Mark Thank you so much for the time you spent with us, how can we best support you and your book and your message right now. I tire thing right now is about getting people started getting them to overcome these obstacles getting the take these ideas that they have in their head and get it out in the real world. That is my mission. That is my passion. It's the reason I wrote the book. But if you find that the books a little too overwhelming to read and you want. It and a little bit shorter doses you can do find you can find me on twitter. You can find me on instagram and facebook, and if you want it in between this plenty of places to fall that but that's the best way I. Think he support it is by making me proud of you by taking the idea get out there and do something. Back Mark Thank you so much for joining us here remind Valley decky of your time and good luck everybody, and thank you everyone listening. I'm Bishen Kiani, and this is the Mind Valley podcasts.

Netflix founder CEO and Co founder bobby Mind Valley Mock Randolph twitter CO founder Mine Valley Mark Mark Google facebook CEO Marc baseball Amsterdam Berg Patty Kobe
02/18/20  The Tech behind Voice Assistants; Voice Assistants in Your Business; Voice Leads Business

The Peggy Smedley Show

12:24 min | 7 months ago

02/18/20 The Tech behind Voice Assistants; Voice Assistants in Your Business; Voice Leads Business

"With advances in technology voice assistance are going to get better at every step in their process. And we're all going to appreciate it much more. I think in a few years time. The ability for voice for a voice assistant to hear and understand and respond entered. Take Action on request will make today's voice assistance. Look a little bit silly. I really believe that. Welcome to the Peggy smuggling show the podcasting voice of Iot and digital transformation with your host at Smedley. Hello and welcome to today's edition of the Peggy smedley. Show as always. I'm your host Peggy Smedley. And what a great data to be on the radio. I'm loving all of these great discussions. We're having so far this month on voice assistance. Some of you are all in and some of you are thinking no thanks. It's too much big brother for me and I love it. You know. That's what we need to be talking about so today in segment one. I'm going to zoom out a little bit and talk about the tack behind these voice. Assistance will all these advances in artificial intelligence. I guess translate into better voice assistance down the road and I guess more importantly you know that is what we want right. I don't know maybe we do. Maybe we don't but before we get even more into that later on the show. I'll be interviewing Ron Babich. Who's the CEO and Co founder of Easy Voice? And he's going to chime in on the discussion. And then I'm GonNa wrap up the show talking with Chris. Vander sluice who's the president and founder of HMS Software? And they've got much more to talk about in all of this in the industries that were in right now so let's get started. Grand View Research Latest research suggests the AI market will reach almost three hundred ninety one billion by twenty twenty five so as I always like to show you hear more numbers about where the market's going to grow to and I think it's interesting because one of the key factors driving growth in this market is advances in voice recognition. Which is also going to help drive the market for voice assistance. Now let's take a closer look at the tax behind voice assistance. How exactly do they work? This is actually really interesting when you kind of dive into it because USC breaks it down a really great way something that helped me really understand it and it summarizes it for you and in a simple way and let me see if I can help you understand it as well. The first step is speech to taxed during this step speech. Detect software. Breaks the speaker's speech down and I think it's kind of an interesting way into tiny bits called a phonies and the way they do it. The software uses the order. A combination of the text of these phonies to figure out what words as the speaker is speaking. Which would mean us so it must account for the fact that a lot of words sound really similar. It must also account for any noise. That's going on in the background. That my Mafa kind of the speakers words of course imas also account for the fact that everyone pronounces the same words a little bit differently. And it's incredible if you think about it now. We all have different accents. We all say things differently And there's words I know I say very differently as well so if you think about it. The next step is tax to intent which goes a step further and figures out what the speaker actually means so natural. Language processing is kind of like magic. And that's how I look at it because it it feels pretty seamless to most of us most of the time Ibm's tack DEEPA. Qa is a great example of this and this is what I like about it because deep Qa can figure out what someone is really asking and then it starts coming up with potential responses to this question and creates a Fed. A kind of a threat. I should say for each possibility. There would be an example how I stumbled onto word right so if you think if we look at it. Ibm says each thread uses hundreds of Algorithm Algorithms to figure out how likely each possible answer is to relevant in how relevant and then it creates an ranks a lot of the answers. And that's what I found really interesting as I was researching this segment because the final step in all of this according to USC is intent of action so this is the the step that directs the Voice Assistant to actually complete the request or command. You know so by those hundred piece to spend you might want or maybe don't want so as we've already discussed the commands. Most people currently give voice. Assistance are relatively simple like asking what the weather is or traffic is like or asking for information that can be found From a simple web search right the ways we look at things now someday. These tasks will become more complex. And that's what we've been talking about all month long and we really rely on voice assistance to set appointments for us to maybe buy items as I was just kidding about on our behalf and to control our homes but what I'd like to consider today is what will it take for this to really get us to where we wanted to be what we really hope that these voice assistance will do which step in the process. I just laid out for this for. All of us is the weak link that we have to think about. Is it the technology's ability to understand language and interpret the meaning? Is it the ability to formulate responses or answers or is it the ability to take action on our request and how will advances in AI? Make a difference in the realm of voice assistance. There's still a lot of issues I think with voice assistance like Siri and Alexa and Google assistant in general or Cortana. Being able to really riddle out I think what people mean when they don't say things a certain way a very particular way but I think one problem is. I've had this problem in my own experience. And sometimes it's hard to figure out how to phrase the request so that it's simple in clear a kind of funny because I was talking to one of my writers as we were preparing this radio segment. Who Has Google home which is different because I have Alexa and her? Google home mini smart speakers in her living room and she was telling me how frustrating. It's been for her to try to remember how to phrase a particular request because it won't work unless she says it a certain way and the problem is when she's trying to use voice commands to get the live feed from her video doorbell to an end to play on her television so that's where she gets really frustrating and most of the time she just simply ends up giving up and we're laughing about it but the reality is think about that really though. This is indicative of a much bigger problem when we think about how we use voice assistance. If if you can't get Google Assistant to do something like that that maybe you won't even try to ask it to buy something for you now. Have you had similar experience now? I can tell you this. My husband has said repeatedly to Alexa. Alexa you're stupid now. I hate that word stupid but he does because Alexa does not respond the way he wants. Joe There's another example of poor Luxa. She she doesn't know why she's done something not the way he wants her to but happening. I've heard that many times in my house and it's kind of like probably like I don't understand that well of course she doesn't understand that because she doesn't know what just happened and it's a word that they're not programming into a toe. I'd love to hear your frustrated stories. I mean what's happening with Your Voice Assistant. I'd love you to share those on social media with me tell me about. Let's talk about these and knowing fails that indicate a larger problems in the space that are holding adoption back. I mean that's what we need to be talking about 'cause then maybe we can help a move forward you know. With advances in technologies voice. Assistance are going to get better at every step in their process. And we're all going to appreciate it much more. I think in a few years time. The ability for voice for Assistant to hear and understand and respond enter to take action on requests will make today's voice assistance. Look a little bit silly. I really believe that because I you know. I'm a tech Junkie. You know I love the way we see it and I love the way to advance in. Who would have thought we would all be? Come so excited about this the way we are. So here's my opinion for today. Voice assistance are going to get good. I mean really good and I think we need to think about this. Their ability to mimic human language and and it's understanding is going to open up so many doors to using a ai and ways that once required humans. I mean. That's what we need to be thinking about. The question becomes then. Is there such a thing as voice assistance actually becoming just toogood? I mean that raises that really interesting question and I think ethically speaking. Do we need to know when we're interacting with a robot and we're not? We've talked about that before. Will it matter as long as our needs are getting met in the end? They're great questions right. Something we need to be thinking about but then again. Here's my tip for today. In addition to you know what I talked about last week in segment one privacy and Security. We also need to remember that voice. Assistance are a and one of the key issues when we talk about. Ai Is ethics. We can't forget that they're bound to be some ethical questions that will come up as technology advances and starts being used in verticals like healthcare hospitality education. We need to be thinking about that. So what ethical I think conundrums. Can you think of that? Have to do with voice assistance. A lot come to mind things were ordering and healthcare. You know when I think about that there are a lot. But what are you thinking about? And that's what we need to think about. And I and I noticed. An article came out. That frontline is doing a doctor documentary. That's going to be out tonight and I'm really curious about that documentary. 'cause I went and talk to Amazon about Alexa and they told me a little bit about what Alexa does. And a lot of that's going to be in the documentary about what other people in interviews with them. So we'll be curious to see what Amazon has to say so. There's a lot of really cool things going on right now in the ice space so we really ought to be paying attention. What's going to happen so again? Send Me Your tweet. Let's continue this discussion on social media at connected W MAC. I'd love your take a quick break. Check out a website. Connect WORLD DOT COM or the Peggy smedley show dot com and remember. This is the PECCI smedley. Show the podcasting voice of Iot and digital transformation with great technology comes great responsibility. We'll be right back after this commercial break.

Voice Assistant Alexa Peggy smedley Google Iot USC CEO and Co president and founder Ibm Fed Ron Babich Amazon Grand View Research Latest Joe There Chris Vander PECCI
Artificial Intelligence Assisted Patient Engagement with Ramani Narayan, CEO, Co-Founder at Kencor Health

Outcomes Rocket

23:29 min | 10 months ago

Artificial Intelligence Assisted Patient Engagement with Ramani Narayan, CEO, Co-Founder at Kencor Health

"Welcome to the outcomes rocket podcast where we inspire collaborative thinking improved outcomes and business success with today's most successful and inspiring healthcare leaders and influencers and now your host so Marquez luck. I'm back once again into the outcomes rocket podcast where we chat with today's most successful and inspiring healthcare leaders. I Really WanNa thank you for tuning in and I welcome you to go to outcomes rocket rocket dot health slash reviews where you could leave a rating and review for today's podcast because he is an outstanding individual a friend and and also a friend of another guests that we've had on the podcast Dr Chang. He is Ramani Narayan. He's the CEO and Co founder at Ken core for health. He's really senior. Serial Entrepreneur Season Management Executive. Who Co founded Ribbit Syndey? Oh and Junction Inc.. which sold the CISCO HIS SPECIALTIES INCLUDE STARTUP SPECIALISTS executive management expertise in building amazing tools? That are scalable and help improve outcomes. And that's why I wanted to have him on the PODCAST Ramani. Welcome to the PODCAST. My friend thank you. Thank you nice to be on this call so remind tell me what got you into healthcare out of all the things that you've done in the past and the things that you're into now what is it that got you focus into the sector. If question actually it kind of started with a personal out so my son at the time few years back was a high school senior who was going to go to college. He is One of those US kids have a regular a regular issues with allergies. And what not. And then. He's in touch with his declaration in allergy specialist. An on and off so he was going to college. He was going to go far from home and I was looking at it and say Jeez the has to be away for this kid to stay connected with his existing doctors that he had they have a history with them so it was gonna be my communication background two ways I can now bring that together. That solid kind of start it interesting and were you able to find a way to peace this relationship so that he could work with the same provider from college. Yes yes certainly. So our first product would be started. I kind of worked with the pediatrician as well as One of the CEO for local hospital Kinda like the idea idea because he was looking for ways to improve communication between providers in between various different specialist doctors from primary care physicians the specialists and the basis more on. How do you keep the communication flow open? And he was looking for a solution in that space. So I kinda came along at that time. We you kind of chatted put together a solution and that's like an applause started but since then in a ESI walled in too much more than that. Wow so that was actually the basis for or which can core health was built on right. That's the perspective with which I came into this and medical I ran into now we have two of the CO founders in the team so the the Avoca fonder Dr Chang will come to that in a second it was. There's a second Gopher Madhu he comes with a healthcare background Swazis he's being in healthcare. It and he got. On the end from workflow inauguration nomination bringing in various forms wearable technology into the makes us kind of attacking the healthcare problem from a different perspective. We both realized you know there's lot to do in. Oh by teaming up together. So in a long week combined forces and then ran into Dr Chang and who I describe as a Dr Bernard Manning adopt couric Bernard Begin Specialists Cardiologists yet. Hands are tied. You're time is pretty much fulltime serving patients. You don't have time to do anything anything else. But jaas an amazing person who kind of God of his way to find time to do things. Innovative things are going to bring into healthcare. So the partnered with him and it turned out to be the right megs A technologist like myself a healthcare specialist as well. Let's say A doctor sauce. And that's a good mix of of co-founders that you have their to really provide insight across the spectrum so you don't have any blind spots so I think that's really creative way that you guys did that right so Ramani what would you say today out of all the things going on in healthcare needs to be on the agenda of health of CARE leaders. The one thing that comes to mind enriches kind of keep focus for us as well is if you look around and the day to day consumer technology out there and the patient agent population the technologist commuted into every walks of life. Whether it's a smartphone with Arab owes the life of an average bridge individual s actually gone much a better and smoother. Thanks to all this innovative technologies out there but when it comes to healthcare we had a pretty basic. If you WANNA call your Doctor Office you still have to get the phone and then keep calling them play phone tag and finally hope hope somebody will be on the other end or you know. They have this infamous Patients ordered where he can go and see some minimal things in that's the length of technology hits or should we have between the patient operation. And if you jump into the barometer cy. It's not any better either because they had charted just begin to kind of in a penetrating to the hospitals in the broader space and which is again built with billing in mind not solving the problems of a given given doctor or a Nursing staff auto patient. If you ask a doctor they hate to your chart today but touted as the most innovative component inside the hospital spectrum today so easy to those folks whether they are serving house cat from outside or they are indeed probing provider being part of the hospital spectrum. They need to look into. What is the technology out there? That's already province in the enterprise as well listen to consumers faced Harkin we actually bring them into healthcare space to make life easier for providers as well as for the patients. I think that's a really great call out. And what what would you say. Today Romani is the way that you and the folks at Ken. Core health are doing this to improve outcomes so we are attacking from decide saluting commuting. What we call us a platform play where we provide platform to the providers aid hospitalised? Glenn folks who run the clinics and being a health plans awesome for them to engage among themselves as well as better engage with the patient population. So that you bring me. Don't actually go reinvent the wheel. We bringing existing technology. Would just out there. How can we take that? Make it actually play in the healthcare space meaning make it combined make Risley into a two. What are the requirements healthcare space bay by the rule but the same day? Make it innovative and give the same exposure that people how they consumer technology out today so at this point you guys are putting together these dashboards the way that you filter the data through. Can you walk us a little bit through that right and how it's currently being used. Yes so let's take a typical example. Typical problem that'd be a solving today. We're focusing on C.. Had CHAFFETZ IN CARDIAC heart failure scenarios so in that space where we actually try to do is most of this. Hospitals have an outpatient clinic where they tried to stay engaged with their patient population. That is deducted would see a tough conditions and the idea is to by staying connected. Would there they. They can actually would unwanted hospital visits so process by which they do as a traditional phone calls education and people from all all those things they did today which makes it very cumbersome for them to scale the aid to the population so we roy them with the platform where we allow the care redeem the hospital to engage with the patients in a much seamless matters so for example we bright Beijing's with a What we call it as a virtual true companion? Sammy Soden Omaha would. Sammy would consist of communication component as well as a white biometric device burn it so that the data they collect basic data. Like your Wayne Scale. We're back pressure monitor. Pulse ox these data seamlessly move Lou from a patient into a emperor setting through Wi fi technology right so they don't have to write it down some piece of paper go do it can beat her. And then it had to do the data entry the data automatically goes it similarly whether the person is savvy with a with technologies like ipads iphones owns or any other smartphones or they are not Dick Savvy the Morfey a Nikola platform type person or in a newer technologies judges like Alexa Google home which are now walking into every home these days. They can use technology a comfortable with based on their level of expertise expertise and stay engaged with the Kirti and on the care team. All this data coming from the patient the mission language algorithm process them but do not make decisions for them but rather make all this data available a difficult after the right time when they need it love. You guys have been developing some really interesting solutions. They're Ramani. What would you say a setback or a failure that you experienced in this business and what you learned from that to make you you guys better come like any other? Entrepreneurial Journey will not be seeing sexist from day one I you had run into few barriers and or comment and likewise. YV Had COUPLA Nardi us the encountered first and foremost naively. We thought we'll build this technology and then all the doctors would love it and kind of ill will start start using it or not. They loved it they liked it and the already do investment handful doctors invested in the technology but when it comes to actually using it they had not the right a candidate for it. They are busy with water with lifesaving In a service they provide the patients the busy with your steps. The last day they have a mind is sit and Lombard new way of doing this. Yeah so that was actually home. They like it love at but they're not abbvie right uses. Who would the right uses for this kind of technology? Where do we actually see that nature adoption turned out with your advice? We found out the real folks folks who actually carry a lot of these Monday. Heavy lifting is the the nursing staff and the administrative staff that surround these Doctor Office right so dad down the primary targets the doctors the secondary so we kind of done things few Enisa way so that our primary focus for people within the hospital setting setting is that the nursing staff and the administrators that super interesting reminding because on the one hand you'd think wow these physicians think it's Great. They're investing in it. There are user. And then you find out they're not the user and it's just these little tweaks that you have to make And you finally realize that the the actual end user was nursing an administrative staff physician Assistant Cetera. And now you guys have tweaked and you started to see a swifter uptake. Yeah definitely an increasing In we're already a couple of hospitals With this platform in finding the kid in loving it because overall increases the operational efficiency and the doctors finding that they don't have to again and again say the same thing to every person. So the information his captured documented or Adam process and Russ ended in the right way at the right time so that they'd say everybody a lot of time in that love. It reminding Ramani. Thank you for sharing that listeners. It's a journey and don't think that what you have in front of. You is going to work immediately and if it does be ready because there there will be another obstacle. And it's being flexible like Ramani. Dr Chang and his team and the whole team over there has done with Cancun health. I know that around the corner or they have some pretty big successes and what is in it for you as well for Ramani. He took this experience of his son. You know is a very personal experience. He was able to put the pieces together together but in doing that he found an opportunity to do more and fast forward to today. He's doing some pretty amazing things with this company and helping patients and staff. So reminding. You've done a lot. What would you say out of your entire career? Is One of your proudest medical leadership experiences. Today I have to say the partisan runs so far lar and the Johnny can core is to be able to go talk about this problem and disillusion that we bring to table to the doctors the hospitalised in Damn beliving ended in sync. I like it I love it and I'm that's big right. I mean that's proof of concept of somebody's willing to put their the money on the line that tells you you're doing something right exactly. That kinda helps us to stay focused on what the days so that. We are not actually jumping all over. We're primarily focused on solving the basic fundamental problem. And then make sure it is actually any traction love it. Nothing like getting a formation nation of what you're doing by somebody investing that's like the in business. That is the best way to get it. That is true so tell us a little bit about an exciting project or focus focus within concord today. Yes so what we have for actually focusing right now is turning towards Steve Patient engagement aspect because without the patients really engaged h with the the care. Team you're not going to see the effector. Associating for and the patients come with wide variety of choice Reid so agents agents for an age group to for medical condition and the social economic status. So how do you actually. And there's no one tool thou will actually really one way of engaging with these patients so what can you do to Kinda get majority population engage and dot technology lesson. We learned in that area was technology cannot be the barrier in technology needs to play a second law to kind of enable what they like to do which ages they wanna stay connected with your chemo and get better. So how do you actually do that. So you got to actually take the solution that your priority the to to their native even wyman would they are comfortable in whether it's a simple computing technologies or phone service or even sometimes family members and the caregivers are the person person who are better equipped to deal with the talking to the care team and getting the right In medical solution to the patients so in that journey we found out that the Amazon Alexa Google home like waste services that is actually out getting more traction out. There is probably much better. Suited voted for this aging population with the the medical condition. Because it's a lot easier to interact with someone with your speed. You don't have to train them the more teach them how to do that. And he dissolves that they had not doesn't interview date them to kind of talk to some device like that but whereas they put an ipad a computer in front of him. Some damage is less technology issues. Might stop them from actually bleeding what they wanted to do. So we're actually now working on a sedition Dow bring the Alexis of the Google home so the world into these mainstream patient population to interact with the Kirke. That's pretty cool and you know. I think one of the things reminding that that people are are afraid of and especially on the provider side as well. If I integrate. Great these technologies. How do I keep privacy up? Hit Buzz always comes up and I think oftentimes it's misunderstood. Can you talk to that. Yes absolutely absolutely and so that. That's actually the third lesson. Beloved as when you build something for the healthcare sector like the enterprise where you gotta face ask for you. To get better healthcare that is not an option e. cannot Riley's hotchpotch and dimpled them together. Big You have to have a product that is live function for leak by before you take it to your potential customer base because this is a lifesaving medical field where there's no room for how big solution because they don't have time for it. They need to actually engage with the solution that is gonNA make them be more efficient in in doom better than what they're doing today Macula so there's no room for error so you have to have whatever product you deliver in this space fried from day one make sure it is compliant. Make shoulder is fully gone through the process that they have set aside. Make sure all the people working in that space as well trained to know what privacy means. What compliance is what is? The latimore does not allowed and follow the process and procedures because startups are usually well known for flaunting the processes that they think processes kind of a abide bide ward for them. Lowe's them down at me not be the case because in this case. If you don't do that Fran it is not a practice that he can inject late into the game and you are going to feel the pain you'll go eight. It takes much longer for you denocrat into this. Even if you're just going for the simple Lila they're gonna put you through a review process to make sure every day that you touch every interaction that you do is going through the right way so there are are the data is protected that it is encrypted that now if even if there is any kind of for bree wait for you to find out first and taking immediate eight courses action for sure and so as it relates to the use of these devices. And what did you learn is as far as hip is concerned. And what can and can't be done. Have you had this like in a nutshell yet. For example even though we have in again good traction in terms of getting controller were voice based technologies abused. There are some issues with completed not still fully. Brian Wear ECON. You cannot distinguish laxer whether it said the impatient or somebody somebody in the hound dog right. Sandra Sprint fast food production. It's just coming up in a reasonably Some of these released some software to unable those so they're slowly wallet. So you had to be little patient about some of these Yukon rush out the right patients to kind of approach these problem and and make sure it is fully by well. It sounds like you guys are working on it way ahead of the game and you're learning as the technology goes so that when it it is ready you guys are going to be ahead of the curve here. We hope so awesome. No this is really super interesting that you guys are approaching this problem of of heart failure failure in from so many angles and We had a good chance to connect that the health do point. Oh meeting I could tell that. You're super passionate about this solution and I'm excited to see where it goes from here. So getting here to the end Romani. Let's pretend you and I are building a medical leadership course on what it takes to be successful all in medicine today it is the one one or the ABC's of Romani Narayan and so I've got four questions for you followed by a book and a podcast. Ask that you'd recommend to the listeners. Ready her all right. What's the best way to improve? Health Care Outcomes. By targeting a particular problem eight problem and solving doing it with the help of the providers. Your customer base. Don't try to stay outside and try to solve the problem. What is the biggest mistake or pitfall to avoid not? I'm not staying to the ground. And not looking at the compliance which is amazing understand the basics that are Acquired in the healthcare space. And make sure taking care all right from day one. How do you stay relevant as an organization despite constant change a good example? Is You have to keep your eyes and ears open. You had to adapt happy. He needs to be willing to move fast. What's one area of Focus? That should drive everything else in a health organization metrics and data with our key focus. Okay so you have to actually have a goal of if I'm doing X Y and Z. That needs to get neither sauce that I'm looking for. It's not you've got to go back and keep fine tuning it if you don't have that metric minded mindset. You're going to be all over the space mob it. What book would you recommend? What podcasts would you recommend to the listeners? The book recently I came across the checklist manifesto by actually one of the the doctor is a surgeon. Came up with a simple checklist mechanism within the hospital with a Bucer jury or in a hospital setting. It's a fascinating book. The concept is ways posts a simple to checklists before. And after and that book actually illustrates through examples of how is simple concept like that has saved lives money saved processing you just. It's a fascinating Kala great recommendation. That's a tool Gwanda right. Yep and then how about a podcast you recommend to the listeners. It's yours hey I appreciate shape that greatly. Do you have another one in mind or would you say just listen. Keep listening a handful of others but I would recommend this one for the reformat awesome manet. I appreciate that shout and listeners. If you WANNA get these show notes as well as links to the book and all the things that they're up two at Ken core health and all the things that N- Orion talked about. Please go to outcomes rocket dot health slash Romani and that's A. R. A. M. A. N.. And I you'll be able to get all the show notes and all the details there before we conclude Ramani in you share just a closing thought and then the best place where the listeners can get hold of you the best place to get horses on our website. WWW dot concur health dot com. You can follow us on. Twitter can core INC and encor. How ink is our Righty so all of us there and which is out for Innovative things that are about to go outstanding Ramani really. I appreciate the time you spent with us today and looking forward to keeping up with your success so take care and we'll talk to you soon and you think he's all thanks for listening to the outcomes rocket podcast be sure to visit us on the web at. WWW DOT outcomes rocket dot dot com for the show notes resources inspiration and so much more.

Ramani Dr Chang CEO and Co Doctor Office Romani US Ramani Narayan Executive Marquez Sammy Soden Omaha Ramani Risley Beijing Junction Inc.. CISCO Dr Bernard Manning CEO YV