20 Episode results for "CCC"

The CCC Digital Skills Survey

CCC Talks

47:46 min | 1 year ago

The CCC Digital Skills Survey

"Welcome to CCC talks empowering it and business professionals in their digital transformation journey. Find all the latest tips tricks and strategies at our blog and resource center at cloud credential dot Org and our host. CCC Managing Director Marco Laughlin. Good morning good afternoon and good evening to everybody. Joining us to a my name is mark. I am the Managing Director of the CCC CLINCIAL Financial Council. It's great to be here and joining us on today. CCC talks are members from the CC global expert panel now as the name suggests gesture. These folks are panel of global experts. Who contribute to the C. C. in various ways in the development delivery of the promotion? Shen of good practice for all things digital services and technologies that include serious such as cloud big data Iot blockchain a until four. So it's great to have you all here this session. I'm just GONNA ask you briefly to introduce yourselves for our listeners. In about thirty seconds from the top there. You're just over two for thirty seconds. Okay thank you are pretty introduction. Okay Hi I am. A cloud service management consultants for three days a week helping. It organizations go into the cloud. I make the best out of it. They are and two days a week. I am a trainer for Professional Cloud Service Management and service management and not in East Lawrence where I do training for three days in the week Nichols opens in the same. Few basically empathic so right at the coalface. They're fantastic Brian again. Briefly a little bit about Self Brian Okinawa. Qa trailing in the UK. I'M A job title technical T. You needn't principal technologists than I responsible for hybrid on multi cloud environments on specialized. VM where some tastic hybrid were there that might pop up in a few minutes. We'll Peter Hi. My name is separate overnight. In about ten years ago we started the development of was now called gold cloud technology associate or not that was caught essentials. Since then I've built up a business as a trainer and I was probably one of the most experienced clouds trainers worldwide since then focusing on cloud and cloud security As of last month I barth time associate professor the University of Utah of appliance in guess what Cyber Security and cloud thank you mark. Thank you Peter. I had hair debt notification of congratulations on an appointment. They're I think they're in good hands. I think so great and Gary Yourself Grieving from Perth in Western Australia aaliyah. My name is Gary Fielder worked for an organization called DOS. We're also learning partner. We are the only multi cloud training provider in Australia. able to offer Google cloud. Aws and micro cloud training as well as a cloud credentials consequences as well we'll see the largest it provider. Cybersecurity is my current pet thing. I have a little mission to be the number one cybersecurity provider in Asia. Fantastic fantastic so best of luck with that I'm sure you will achieve that. As referred to mentally of hybrid cloud multi cloud of this library does a lot of overlay there even mention of Eitel to make it onto some a uh-huh shortly getting off in this session of CCC talks. I'm we're going to focus initially on the report just released so our are CCC Global Digital Skill Survey Twenty nine in there. We've identified three critical findings and also a essop lamentable findings as well On they've looked at a broad spectrum but we focus on areas. We remember see. I am all culture individual Joel and organization and the impact of all this technological change driven by cloud and then all these new cloud services and so. I think what. Today's I guess we're going to look at some of these. Findings explore them a little bit more and see 'em insights. We can gleam to open things up the impact heck of changed now. It's been driven by all this new. It technology cloud saying this all over the years but there's an impact on the organization that then impacts people's I'd impact culture from your experiences with your organization. You're working with 'em how you saying that affect the people side of things within organizations. I think I think it's easier than ever before to adopt technology you would an ID and password. I heard you can get into all sorts of Safra Service which is quite easy but the impact electrically now neither to the business or entity. It function what we're aging is an impact on people. Any comments on that from your experience from erases at this is Brian. Yeah so what we've seen is with people. Moving multiple based technologies analogies where finding the A lot of people resisting the change owner than the one that stole data in the cloud. Because it's unsecure they're also fighting as as well. I like the no show for being spied on by senior management. So What we're seeing when we people our Cole says it's a theory of change? Yeah I think fear of change but also I think that you said in there There's trust element as well. I think isn't there. Do I trust this cloud or software or this thing. First of all data is stored and I think ultimately do I trust. This will probably do what I'm doing today in the future element there as well. We got the skills to do this. Brave new move over to the cloud. If you think back three years ago we'll rushing getting latest version version of Windows Server. Worry I can tell you that. We haven't we haven't sat somebody in a window server course in a very long time sustained. I've worked in learning thirty years for Qa with Brian back in the day and now with the window. Cervical is sustained as soon as novell disappear sustained all business every three years. You've committed while another aren't any new server courses. It's the skills I've got. They relevant today work. Should I be going to the cloud. What is the cloud of clouds will the cloud displaced me? What skills do I actually need in this in this brave new world so so we've actually seen the tilting towards a softer skills? Were techies not only getting the technical crowd skills but also things like item skills and cloud credential skills just because during the windows server course or my day the netware three point one to fulfill that provided all the skills that you need you got three his life that will those days are gone. You Jen you need a learning plum now. As opposed to sell them the schools seen three years. I think that's fantastic. Because that's one of the Challenges Organization when you go into the hey your department or the learning and Development Department is today even understand the impact where you know go to senior management. We need budget for learning plans for people to understand and the one big change. That's come out of that and I don't know if Brian's got some country the other guys but we've saying in your strategy market huge taken certification the validation that you've actually got some scale your data center unless you've got the ticket go near the cloud and let's let's you got the piece of paper when I arrived in Australia. It years ago certification wasn't thing no I actually. I actually cannot fulfill the demand for for people doing exams. We don't make much money on it to be fast. So there's any number of seats that we want to have. But I have more supply than demand and mortar mountains may be wanting the nearly midnight Australia that's asset-backed area. I think we get. I think that that's interesting. I mean the point of view on things will seem very few people. Now come on courses but we'll see locked coming on systems that Nicole so shifting from watching stolen the operating system actually Orion system and get not return on investment. Absolutely one of the biggest things as a session. I do myself talk about where we're dismantling this. It factory that we've built over the last twenty thirty years because we're not building a lot of the low level infrastructure anymore were sitting things on infrastructure as a service and platforms on on software. Like that that we don't need to do that piece as much as we used to not doing to build bit but we started doing the integration bit on the run bid a lot more than a lot differently as well. Will you know Peter from from your perspective there as well I now I know you're new to university but I'm I'm also interested. If you have any comment on how universities are looking at this change in the marketplace on changing people's requirement than skills or are they just in general sense not necessarily your university. Oh that's A. That's a bit of a hard question to answer right now because as I said of MoD inside but in line with what you're saying Universities don't necessarily have a catch up programme for this. We're trying to find a way into that. My daughter thought of my business is actually the Cloud and cloud security training And from that perspective I have is slightly more direct perspective on. Who's actually doing this stuff and I see a couple a groups of people being involved in that so architect advanced developers re? Don't get much about the skills because they picked him up as they go however do not necessarily doing that in an optimal way. So we don't see those people much on the courses that I work on. What does a youtube uptake on his across the board more risk assessment people who are suddenly being swamped with with clouds? Stuff that they by Ska- don't understand very well and they also have to deal with the fact that the even the it guy who's supposed to understand is don't really understand that So that's where it is. It is a huge uptake of both introductory Clark stuff as well as more cloud security stuff and not really the extolling the the end of rice. Now the more advanced ones as some of my In my practice are like banks who are now running literally. Hundreds of devops OPS teams. That's from a security team. Assessment Second Perspective are basically clueless and these. These people are trying to the risk assessment. The thing how do we get these hundreds of the DEVOPS teams aligned towards the risk assessment. That they should be doing. And they're devising ising complete training programs for that but it's still pretty immature and as far as I can see from a university perspective. Were you in. It is just a couple of years of of training play university and we're just trying to get into the position where we can actually deliver people who are first and that probably takes pixel a bit more than that so we really cool to have some perspective on the other panelists on Riyadh skills. That are both required wired as well as in demand which is not necessarily the same thing man. Okay we'll come onto that. I think that that's very interesting to close off on the people side. They're jury and from your experience experience with At the coalface customers as well. What are you seeing? Impact some impact no impact big impact. Absolutely there was an interesting interesting impact going on right now. I mean that's all management feel work at. It are always very good at covering up and now we cannot do it anymore. We have to change and ICEES that running practices are confronted with their only lack of control tropical troll. They used to cover it up but nowadays his we have to change our practices pisses what in change management financial trolls et Cetera. And well we we. We need to open up and say okay. We were not in control role at our from nine perspective and we need to change this into cloud service management so they have to open up and from the idol guidance likes talk. You are well. This starting point is not always clear yet so they have to double work do their buffing ratio issue management. And then go to the cloud configurations. So that's also interesting to see. It organizations they have to transform and a eh well to open up their running practices again. Yeah someone I I won't get this right but somebody said to me before it's like we're on a ship in the middle of the ocean the back of the ships on fire as going forward. You've got to rebuild the ship as we're on the ship trying to deal with the fire to end up with the new ship that will take us to Lowe's and accidents that we ship. We need to repair those as well as sewing and and mind the icebergs as well. Sometimes I think we've I think we've touched on a little bit of this one of the key of the critical Oh findings from the CCC report. I'm glad we found. This is a challenge in organisations on Friday professionals. is they don't. I don't know what they don't know again. I think you know we. We befriended with this to find it in a survey that we did. It was really really good on one on hand because we can talk about it and try and help people understand what it means but for organizations and individuals suffering from this. It's very difficult. Because because how do you fix behaviors skills gaps. When you don't know that you don't know you have some They did. Did you see that as a big. Yeah well I I would imagine that you see that as a big problem out there but is it one of the harder problems that we have. There's lots of From a training perspective upskilling vital at the moment but if people don't know that they need this stuff. One of the examples I use is a thing called cloud challenge get ten. Some people put them in a room. Awesome tree words. I knew exposes. What are the three words? Walk is cloud mortis cloud. Yeah I love it because you get a ten different answers until you can to context that's where the CCC comes in with a folio. We try and address up. But I think you doing exceptionally well. I think if you ask the question what's left office. The answer is no such product. If you ask what is your is product. Those are just sweets to sweets other capabilities ability. He's so when you said you don't know what you don't know again I'M GONNA I'm guilty living in the past sometimes for two three four years ago. Nobody was talking about machine learning and nobody has nobody talked about. Ai If you had networks generally you've got after avenue sharing the printer and they were talking about building. multi-modal services in data the centers on the other side of the world that are going to listen to videos index and put closed captions on and let you search in real time. Tell this is science fiction stuff though. That wasn't stuff that we've prepared the generation of it pros who are in the market today for this is net new capability net new skill. It's not only do not know what you don't know you don't know what there is to know because I don't need all of this stuff sealed. Nobody's is more than five percent of powerpoint. Yeah how much of cloud are we using. Half the world doesn't know what format painter does you know how much how much of cloud is baked in and we're going on. I didn't know it did not really seriously we can. We can log in with our fingerprints with our with our retinal. The council It's it's it's a brave brave brave new world it just wanted like is when people coming on call snow and we're expecting it and things change by the minute yes I look at. Why the cost in the Wyman calls now just got sent on the calls? US Club full We don't know what we can use. Type fallout seventy monitors so on Seattle on that for his. We'll we'll just don't realize how big the cloud is and what can be useful. That's a big thing and I think it's a big challenge for organizations or as guaranteeing the fear of. What do we have to use at all? I think there were at the the industry in at the moment is we at least should have in organizations and individuals a base level able to understand what this phase for example Gary. You mentioned them machine learning on a a big thing at the moment with a all I ask to Deok Doc. What is actually today against Watson? Sold us the still being sold under a banner is like science fiction. The practicalities today is far from. I'm a as I think he's a good marketing term. Sofi understand at the base level capabilities today of a machine learning more. You know robotic process automation really two years. We'll probably do better things with it than you know this science fiction type of these technologies. I think that was actually see my wife that just wanted to behind me that was machine learning and AI in operation should not really here but you. But you're absolutely right. You know where where we ought to take. COMPTOIR will be tomorrow are PA robotic process automation. It's like I started using them in routine compensation there you know what even is it. Why do we need it? So it's not just in the skills of the people in the skills and the people who are selling these solutions and then we get into that common language as even the base we had this cloud for the last ten in years. Everybody having different views you pick up those magazines Santa's Bolger's everybody has a different understanding of what it is so it's a wonder people are is. This should be as in a way and with any innovative development You actually wants to have different perspectives and views on what you want however no. I'm guilty as charged. I have my own perspective on cloud And and and it's pretty broad I think and this is what we'll get in an old kinds of courses as most immediate feedback is Oh boy I didn't know it was this big and maybe to drive the point home. Is that people say. Let's move her stuff to the cloud or or let's move with back. That's another thing that another an the idea that I hear a lot of times while a lot of people fail to understand is that the cloud is is is what happens if you ten acts or one hundred acts all the it. That did you have right now and the only way to actually run that is to externalize it and once you have one hundred times your current. It then you. You're pretty easily understand. Dan that has no way that you can run back in your data center again. It's basic and and the fact that we're industrializing. It an impressive it ended scale is is what a lot of people fail to understand. And and that's I guess one of the more fundamental Things that people don't know no. It's like stand bag eve. I don't know big. This is going to be. It's it's it's on president at scale. That's that's totally impossible. Impossible to ruin in in your own data center however big it is yes. I love that phrase industrializing it. I think that's where we are. You've got this idea of commodity to declare that kind of stuff which is great. We've moved on but it's it's not just cloud now. It's all the technologies and services that are built on top of the industrialization of it. A massive exchange I see this beyond the it. Of course. Am I mean. I is researched for for many many years. Already it's about. The adult technology comes in to make this ferry good one line or indices AC- courses like even within the it we we don't know and there was this phrase like If if cloud is an instrument that devops engineers musician underplays it but it's it's valid even within it. We still are surprised by all the promises that it holds and Tokyo is needs to learn to play the new instruments and new cloud as an entire. I like that you're Malaika. devops is the musician. So who's going to look to be the conductor. Will that be the service management folks. Are Somebody else was the business yeah. It's the world's roles in place which is also working. You wait of acting. I point because Sir I think it also talks to one really common misunderstanding. That that cloud is about a about putting your stuff and somebody else's computer de Folks you can do on your own but you have to adopt a cloud frame of mind so actually run devops and you'll find out that you have a choice rather thrown out on your own though somewhat awesome where else but devops really fundamentally requires cloud characteristics. And then we're not necessarily talking about Tammuz owner or Google ruined that on although if you scale it up then it will but that's a different story. Yeah and finish. I think what you're saying to your point appear that yeah yeah. I think you're quite right. The business should be the conductor of this This new music my personal view is the IT Department or function should be part of that business groups. That's condoning not be the way round. I am I think that that's a missed points at the moment that Rit leading in this this conversation in their organizations are the are they not I see is that they still don't understand these technologies from a business perspective from service perspective from all chains that we're talking about they're still looking at is technology which I think isn't the right way to go about it today. Peter are you said we're industrializing. It like the car. I have no idea how my car works but I know how to drive it and it gets me to places value. That means something to me a nice car four because one of the metaphors that I use for cloud is the car manufacturing industry where are like like even a large car manufacturer doesn't even know the details of some of the technical components that are in there because they've outsourced it you some other or company that does the engineering production of that. Eighty percent of devalue of car is not produced by the car manufacturers. But it's outsourced and this is the way we develop or we will be developing. It any it department. If they're lucky will be twenty percent and definitely not the eighty percent but maybe they're the unlucky. Then somebody else in the company will be percent and they will be yes I into maintaining old legacy stuff and then sort of girl than indic- off and let's not metaphors but there are organizations who kind of using Uber's rather than the carpools and there are all focused springing up in the sales department that will blissfully unaware of I forgot undercover. I take that call it. Don't they were you know. The cells often deployed some marketing. The solution that's cloud based they don't think of it as cloud. I think of it as the thing that they used to manage their customers. Cloud base solution an IT. I hopefully. They're on top of that. But they can be Leslie Word or a phrase for recall disintermediation bypassing functional to bring Sas then saying your case Gary The science people go down to it and say make that work with single sign on security on this other stuff. Maybe if you're lucky okay. Yeah we'll be better for the function to say to sales we have these six offerings at work with our systems that you can use. which would you like? We've agreed to contracts contracts and the terms and conditions. We know how it all works. We can integrate that kind of stuff on. Here's the volume may cost more. But we're not worried about costs. Were worried about failure. What we get back from from this or how it drives and Saul's a sales problem but it goes full circle to what you said which was quite site? We should write it down. Eight a t shirt with you. Don't know what you don't know you have a conversation with my wife driving home from work. All the targets are with. It company because we need we need access to the F. drive and we can't open the excel spreadsheet. She can four people working on it on the same time why. It department not talking about even teams where he can all be working on the Excel documented. Exactly the same time so if business needs to know that it wants to change the service providers need to know what those changes are and those changes because new technologies been released on on a daily basis. Nobody can never know there is to know. It's the radar change. Today is faster than any time in the history of people on the planet it. It's it's amazing leaders. Lead on to second finding similar book on to hear your views on this second finding critical finding we have is that Organizations Innovations now require people on staff to have the ability to acquire new skills. Not Too early have scales. They need them to have the ability. What's the word hair to acquire new skills? Be Interested in your comments on that. An interesting thing is that it people will potentially have those skills if they are not sidetracked by our management into a couple of years ago. I was at a university hospital working around here. Like like ten thousand people work there. They had they. They talked me about a report that they had on the change willingness of the staff. And we're talking about the entire university population nation year working relation as expected. You know when when people get older their willingness to change decreases except except for the it people and for the people that they're willing this change kind of remained constant. The exact numbers here and said well you to me. That's obvious if you if you're fifty fifty five and you're in it and you've survived flack. Six generations of change you can handle number seven eight easily easily. And that's the the new that is the new normal and it's only getting getting worse and or not trying to do is is at the university is to to change our our. There's some parts of the university is doing that. The education that is changed out into. Let's let's teach people how to acquire skills rather than Graham the current generation of of the current version of windows into them or whatever it is and of course you still need to work with current technology but these people should be more aware of the fact of how they learn and in particular how they learn in teams. Because that's not a pet peeve I have hell. Hey would probably be Brian Brian from what I enough clearly apprenticeship grabbed entry level only about so Qa company now is so we have Qa apprenticeship so we take people from school from university and we trained On friendship so we'll find a lot of digital courses lobby but then cloud causes also with very little on hardware structure now so from that point of view. But what we do try to do with your friendship cited things they try to get together as teams so because unfolds folks young people coming in. It industry seem to think that nobody he's GONNA communication skills in scale the require as will look at the phone the audience. That industry's changing. Yeah well it's curious we also have. Qa High Education so we run University Northumbria for example in London. So we also do most as degrees in cloud computing on cyber security on so I get management as well of mass distraction action. Isn't it social media. Yeah yeah they are. Though with the young people try to teach them not just about the technologies that are GonNa utilize what technologies will be using. Business is missing. It's it's not so much. Here's there's technology here's how to use it. It's here's technology. What used to be the business? That's that's very interesting Approach to take because. Because that's where this is all going. We've industrialized technology. We don't need to learn the way we did years ago as Gary says nobody's coming in looking for server certifications uh-huh all kinds of stuff but we do need to refocus. I think looking at. How does this technology help the business? At how do we understand that you know typically an IT departments for the last twenty years. There's been lots of KPI's and measures and all sorts of things based on tickets Nestle as the business couldn't care less supposed to be honest at the end today or the law carrying about it now what they do care risk. How do I use this technology for the business Looking at revenue time to market maintaining market share competitive advantage or even just keeping up with a challenger that's using technology acknowledgee better than them to solve the smaller problem. I think that's that's going to be an interesting one going forward. Brian thank him teaching. Not Not not even just a younger the apprentices but even as you're saying the older cohort who have to change that to think about it from a value Elliot Perspective as opposed to some bolts of of of it delivery Combat Apprenticeship citing things now as well apprentices can idiot really sixty eight which is retirement age in the UK with the apprenticeship Levy. Really tell me you're in so it's Brian just finished and I think that's very interesting again. A my added would've thought apprentice apprenticeship on younger people. Yup I need. I've just educate you've you've just educated me there to say in the practice is not bound but anyway owner in the from six we learn every. That's it's my won't percent learning today. Brian thank you to get in there. So you're you're in. Were you looking to up. Ah Yes I'm I'm wondering regardless if it's older what a younger people what what happens if you don't have the ability to quickly adapt the new skills. Not Everybody is capable of quickly and I jog adapting new ways of working. So are we losing workforce of of people who are not able to be very flexible in their way of learning and Buubas whether People Driving Uber X. It professionals so yeah maybe the question is the APP works. Is that career path. Is that what it is. I should be looking looking at getting an uber account sometime soon. Although I think that that's actually true I do seem to get a lot of where the individual driving is an IT specialists. Yes what happens. I I think we're in danger. In that case of losing specialization was Asian quickly as well I wouldn't before writer. I think there's a balance to be found because a lot of these folks I've specializations also also know how to deal with risks and issues and challenges. The newer folks probably don't have less experience. Have they think him. There's a challenges well across the board in the layering still traffic and transit business again that middle layer of management being whittled down just is based cost perspective. Last year I spoke to Robert. Trout am along with but I'm as fantastic insights on devops in the US. They did a lot of research on this last year. He was saying that what organizations were doing well. So they've heard of devops. They read the Phoenix Project. They're all oh now doing devops just you know. And what they did was so they hire lots of devops people with five or six or seven years experience which is nonsense. Assert art with site liability engineers and they They removed a lot of the service. Management layer from their organizations this does across the US and he said their strategy was will put into devops folks. We think they can make us. I will take out. The Service Management folks we think there are bureaucratic Eurocratic on where there's gaps will hire a few the service management folks back. And that's their approach to it now again as a sexual sexual Robert. I don't think that's a good approach. He said Mark. I'm not here to say whatever it is. It isn't what I'm saying too is. It's what's happening so I think there are those challenges in the organization nation and I. I think it's very shortsighted. I move on something else in a second but we'll know the thing about what we're doing. I T is a British Airways last here how to bit of a bit of a problem. They couldn't get their planes out of Heathrow for two days because of an. It problem a couple of years before the CIO. The comedian He's brought in. I think in two thousand thirteen had made an announcement really announcement to a board of directors and shareholders that he was going to save money by cutting costs an IT stripped out a lot of costs in it. I'm what happens couple of years later. They can't take off from Heathrow for two days. And it's cost so a lot more of the money saved so this whole thing about reducing. It expertise at the moment. I think is wrong. If it's cost based we really eighty have to look at specialization. And again not so much. I think we do require people to now. Have the ability to acquire skills our need to help those contra don't won't all we need to find places in your organization because they do have skills that are very relevant probably not in this in these new areas areas are coming out is that according. It costs and phone to get to the cloud it had a massive PR disaster and they had massive fine so yeah cussing level money one or two hundred points here. I want to say we found some challenges in organizations becoming more digitally enables. Let's say under report showed. I found this fascinating that just under fifty percent for me out of the metrics said that problem. People management about fifty percent of the challenges were related to people and management as opposed to technology. I think that's a very high number so I think it is related back to some of the comments that you've made about the challenges with people will detect is there as Peter said the industrialization of. It is very rampant in your experiences. Very quickly do you see that as well. We're having being a big people management problem now not to go into what we're going to do for next year is to try to identify what those problems are a bit more specifically but overall. I thought that was a that was a change whereas previous years it would have been. The technology is the problem. It's very complex very expensive. It's it's it's very difficult. We've all seen the seems. More people management I think even management but understanding how to manage people to cloud the cloud it is the Democrat is it in that and descends. That it's no longer expensive to spin up. Whatever service you wish and if I frame it in a in a positive way is that for some of the workshops I deliver the biggest bang for the buck and company seems to be to align the the the workforce around a common understanding of cloud as a concept and that enables their teams to to actually start talking about cloud in a more effective way because everyone and his brother has a piece of the puzzle? Already you just have to assume that in every company there's a ton of untapped potential even for change and the biggest challenge in the cloud and digitization era is to to get to this new level of understanding that the cloud as a ecosystem of connected services most of which are not run. Run by you. And that's the job of everyone is to extend to let go of the stuff that somebody else can do. Better but then take on that service to the benefit of our own company in which that company is unique will be unique and it it does require and actually essential to to to utilize the understanding dad. People that were already worked there and to to Leverage cloud capabilities. Let these two to advance the company. But just don't get let go of somewhat your old control so that you can Spend time on the new control. I like that we we do have to let go of talk me. We do have to let somebody else looking after. It doesn't mean we're not important. I think it means we're more important to find Ah gives us a chance to go up what I call the value ladder in the organization it's not it it it's it doing business few of it okay. One final thing to fish on the over the weekend has just this weekend. I read two separate reports. I came away. I report says that there is a large global skill shortage in it. Would you agree with that or disagree that first of all so do we have a skill shortage today and where might that be or are we adequately skilled in the IT sector much. You think Ed's Brian. Do you have any view from Gordon. Deal yes. I think there is skilled shoulder. Chad within the law of talk show on Cyber Security is definitely shaw. Common as find Emma. Find that we're not getting low of skill they're sabre professionals coming through in order to protect the systems uh-huh and also as well with things plywood now Seems to be a bit of a backing off thing into the cloud will solve all problems. The nationals at this point here and go by everybody should be a everybody should know about this. The Senate Neato so with lightning. We'll get a massive uptick on cyber courses now include courses. That seems to be our biggest Margaret Lowrie mentioned before very long survey structure hardware so the es because of the changing technologies. We're saying that Yuri. And yes. You're yeah of course in favour all the nontechnical trainings which Takeoff going into technology training. I think real large adoption of the platform as services and the underestimated value. That is this wooden containers referred medalists. The container as a service as a synonym service and that's really has a promise of of being game changing. It's so when you compare to infrastructure as a service on the dependency that did you have on the data layer on the infrastructure layer it can be mitigated by reinventing redefining software and using platforms. So when you're looking at platform as a service containerization containers whether it's cooper notice or well all the other is out there in Dakar car. They are really going to make change in the it landscape therefore in training that's my idea from an IT skills. Gaps there Peter Very briefly from yourself as skills gap began. You're in education in Mali. Different layers you seeing a big wide gaps there or even even from from the Netherlands. All the interesting thing is that We have A high High paying jobs around here not like In the or outsource incumbent countries whenever I talk to somebody in the country and says hey I have a part time job at a university there I I recall is always going to get one kinda got somewhere your students fantastic and say you. Your students will be able to put the extra premium on their their price say their appeal engine words Cybersecurity Inc Lauderdale can get some of. Your students. Doesn't nothing Gary Gary Dan in your parts of the world down under there What's it like from a skills perspective in the it? Shortage or plenty twenty of. I think the fact Australia paid to import me from the UK with my kind of suggest there is. There is something something of a skills shortage but I I don't I don't I get on my host about this little bit. Because when we say skills shortage we tend to think of people oh there is a requirement from people that the you know. The marketing strategy doesn't need more cybersecurity experts but for me talk about skills gaps in skills shortages as not just about net new people entering the industry. It's also about taking that person may the network. CNA The guy. He's been managing the the new fifty million years in a cave. It's about providing in those individuals with the skills that they need to be relevant today so he's taking those guys on that journey as well as bringing in New People. Yeah I think it goes back to one one of our earlier pints there debility acquire skills but also the ability for the organization to support the learning perspective. There's I report to read two weeks ago I read a lot of reports. He can tell it was based in Ireland's and they found that fifty three percents of people were paying for their own tech Tech Horses ammos employers. Weren't I thought this is madness. We have a skill shortage chair. Not just people in in numbers in what up to people we have can-do surely the employers should be part of this Lucien early employer again. You don't know what you don't know we've got under fifty eighty two hundred clouds obstacles. Maybe more the several thousand adding somebody who can create that content can understand more cloud. Tell me what does he want to do. Tell me what you're thinking is okay in order to complete. That journey has where you start going to end. Because he's going to change because together but at least let me and that's where organizations is Asians. Coming in the future is no longer a into service has a cervical. Let me understand that you want to be an XYZ cloud archetype the cyber security guru. Let's to start you on the journey. Oh you know nothing. Let's do some network plus some cloud plus absolutely nothing. Let's read a book you know Sultan and Komo Solutions. Yeah I think keeping their was learning pats now to like with all this cloud just just clicks together into operates. I think we need to do that. Now focused one final thing to leave you with an found another thing in a fish that from a report reported total. Let's do the weekend you know puts me to sleep. This one said I have very very big. Words was technology is not lot the problem today. Would you agree or disagree. We'll we'll end on this phone. Your in we'll start at the top. Technology is not the problem but definitely the people I people in practices outside the IT department that needs straggled changes fantastic radical change here. We're burning downtown. Bryan technology is not the problem. What do you say? Technology is just tools that people that use the tools that are the problem or the challenge again but the technology is not the problem. The Essay Peter. Well Technology is the way that we all ride and we should learn how to a ride that wave. That's really the challenge and especially these part of the world. We need to ride that wave with with teams of people who are who can who can work like like masterminds fantastic in Gary final words. You there you. I'm going to ask technologies problem. Found Final GonNa Finish with a metaphor. That seems only right. If I I think it's the orchestra I think if you think of technologies all the instruments that make up an orchestra if we put all those instruments in a room we're not GONNA get new. I with them very quickly unless she got the skills to you know basically pick up the fenland. Whatever you do with the fiddle to pick up the trumpet and blow never going to achieve so you know? Technology is not the problem so it's understanding what you can do with it and how to fly that technology. That's fantastic gonNA leave on those fine words. Gentlemen thank you so much for joining us today on in this session of talks big. Thank you to urine Brian. Peter and Gary will today's session. Thank you for joining. And we'll talk again soon. Zoom thank you for joining this episode of CCC talks. We hope you enjoyed this episode and walk away with a ton of actionable insights if this is your first time joining joining us. This is US extending personal invitation to you to join other. It and business professionals. So please subscribe on itunes youtube or Google play. If you're or struggling in any capacity in your digital transformation journey contact us. We'd be more than happy to guide you and find you the right certification courses to help you manage the challenges oranges. Modern businesses are facing this was CCC talks until next John

cloud Gary Gary Dan Brian Brian Peter CCC devops US Professional Cloud Service Man IT Department Google Australia Cloud UK Australia. Managing Director youtube Brian Okinawa
Responding to Organizational Trauma

CCC Talks

35:43 min | 1 year ago

Responding to Organizational Trauma

"Welcome to CCC talks empowering it and business professionals in their digital transformation journey find all the latest tips the tricks and strategies at our blog and resource center at cloud credential Dot Org and our host CCC Managing Director Marco Laughlin. Hello Hello everybody and welcome to this edition of. CCC Talks Your John Deere with Markelle Lachlan Managing Director of the CCC now on Today's CCC talks talks. We're joined by Matt. Stratton might is the host of arrested devops. PODCAST devops evangelist at Pager. Judy welcome back great to have you with us today on. CCC talks thank you for joining us. Thanks so much mark. It's my pleasure to be to be a part of the show. Thanks now my our network put us on to you. Okay we've spies everywhere they're looking at different things So colleague of mine watched one of your recent presentations and in the one entitled title the Fight Flight or freeze releasing organizational trauma having watched that I watched it too. We thought it'd be very interesting to get you on to talk to our listeners. More about about this topic in particular. I mean I was taken back by your tongue. Instant management concerned problem management root causes which is fantastic But for me you introduce us for trauma and your session look at trauma. I'm on the purpose of the talk. Describe that traumatic events as being something happens in an organization so we know incidence or an outage preventing businesses from doing the thing that the business exists to do you know affecting their customers but like you to maybe opened up and tell us a little bit More about your perspective of the trauma element of incident in this incident and problem resolution as scenario absolutely so the the idea behind this came from my own experiences with being treated for post traumatic stress disorder and individual trauma treatment and when I started to learn about how we as individuals respond to trauma. And how our bodies physiologically respond and what are the steps take in trauma treatment for individual treatment a lot of it. I was seeing a parallel to how organizations respond. So if we take the idea that an the incident or an outage or a disruption service like you said is basically a traumatic event so trauma is when it occurs to a person is when our nervous system is not as out of answers right. We cannot respond We're we're out of solutions to a problem and that introduces trauma and and so the same thing kind of happens and what happens with people when we have a traumatic event. That triggers trauma is that our window of tolerance. This is is broken right. We normally we can respond to get you know we can activated by something activates a response. We respond we come back we settle. We continue to move when there's something traumatic we might get stuck on or get stuck off either stuck in flight or stuck in freeze and organizations tend to to do this as well and what happens that I start as I started a little more research and investigation in thinking this kind of hypothesis out is that we So that the thing that's great about people we have this thing called the prefrontal cortex and it's it's usually a big advantage right. It's it's where executive executive function happens is how we tell the difference between right and wrong good and bad but the problem is our prefrontal cortex responds the same way to perceive trauma as it does to real trauma so when there are things lack of a better term when there are things that physiologically remind us of something traumatic it causes our prefrontal Cortex to respond on the same way. It does real trauma and organizations do that the same way when there's something that looks similar. We respond the exact same way and the reality is the systems are very complex right technical in sociological systems within organizations. So we try to do this pattern recognition like we love to do that as humans as we want to say. This looks like something I've seen before so I'm going to respond similarly but the reality is every incident is unique because of the complex like systems at play so what we tend to do as organizations as we get stuck on where we're always in kind of flight or we get stuck offer stuck in freezing all of these things prevent us from being able to innovate and move forward and very counterproductive to the idea of being able to learn from incidents incidents and be able to grow as an organization and enhance how we work third very interesting to bring that level in into it certainly seen organizations organizations over the years have a major incident. Customer impacting eventually was you know. Revenue impacting but also from A. I guess nations perspective You know their perspective. But I'm trying to fight the incident and it just made things worse us in them. MM freeze where they can't make a decision to do anything with your prolongs the pain and then I've seen flight where they say. There is no problem when it's a into everybody that there is you know or at least the boardroom. They're trying to hide behind it. So it's very interesting for me to see those human traits actually fall into those all those patterns of incident management on have experienced it myself over over a number of years. I'm also wanted to get your view. your your big into devops up so big into all this digital disturbs economy. That that's growing You know I take it. That there's a lot of people have managed instance since last twenty thirty years. It's nothing new today but is there a case that if they don't change how they manage these incidents in the past that about these newer technologies newer cloud the outdoor mall built around. That did they need to think differently. for some of these new digital services that are coming out outwear provider at least mileages underlying incidents that they never see. I think that's part of it. There's a lot of reasons that we have to continually evolve our incident response and one of the things I like to think about and I've been doing. It ops for two decades over two decades. So I've things have changed. Things are different There's there's definite data and science behind the idea of you right at you. Run it right so this idea of sort of having the small group that response install incidents and is able to fix. Everything really doesn't work for several reasons. One is to be honest. It never really worked that well in the first place but we got away with it and there was a time in my career when I could hold everything about the systems I supported in my head I could under like. You're supporting a lamp stack. Okay I kind of know all the components rodents I know what they do. I can help figure it out. Today's distributed systems. It's impossible to be able to understand that because everything. Everything's in a constant state of change and dependency. So you WANNA be able to in an incident get the people who have the domain knowledge about that particular component involved this quickly as possible because they can help restore service as quickly as possible that being said in order to do that we have to change the way we think about incident response in order to do that because again these are such complex systems and even mentioned like some of it is outside of our organization. Some of it is stuff. That's abstracted away. How do we understand how to to to see what's what's happening over in aws when this is happening plus we had a release on this micro service an hour ago? And I'm just the person carrying the pager I can't know all this stuff and it's crazy easy to expect me to write. Michael served meeting this. Yeah Yeah we have to distribute this effort and is the way that we think about incidents silence and and investigating and learning from them and sharing information that we get a lot of first thing at the CCC when we look at the people aspect of change is people having to adopt what they do and smaller increments but more often. How do we change? Change how we do instant management. It's not a big bang thing where you go away for nine months and try and figure it out adopt small so if you're now doing micro services in a devops very fast environment as you said dance manager isn't going to know very much about what that is. I think they're all is to coordinate. And bring people together and bring them true that resolution process using the people involved and say a micro services to figure out what went wrong or if they can't see it because arena a fight situation maybe to step back a little bit onto helps them. You know help help some truth so I was just. It's GONNA say a big part of that is is. We're big believers page duty in using the incident command system which was actually developed by first responders outside of tackles. It's how first responders in fire resolution and things like that work together and the role of the commander which can be someone who's their day job title is incident management doesn't really matter They're not a revolver right. There coordinator their communication their decision maker. But they're getting they know how to get the right people and it's so much more about psychology communication and leadership and delegation and decision making than any kind of technical acumen in being a really good incident. Commander that's it and I think you meows really strong role as you said it's leadership roles. It's a communication roll but you do have to have technical insights or knowledge enough to be able to you understand some of the domains that are being affected not necessarily the indepth knowledge. But you do certain these knows something about it. I always you know is incident management. Him Him a little bit debased over the years where it's Osha. We could outsource after party. And maybe that's an answer. Maybe it's not but certainly on some of the core critical applications locations that organizations have. I'd like to have control of how they get managed from an incident perspective especially customer facing revenue generating and things think could lead to reputational damage. So I think it's a stronger role. Possibly the an organization's have I think given the merit I think over the years. Yes I think. A lot of a lot of companies are having great success with having it be a role and not a job so I give the example holy pages but there's this oughta organizations the same way so we don't have people whose job you know in the Org Chart. Is there an incident manager. Our incident commanders. Our on call incident command. They have other other jobs and yeah so what. We found some of our best incident commanders. Our product owners. And it's because they understand the product right. They don't necessarily understand CASSANDRA. Cooper Netease are deep technical but they know how our product works. They know how the components work and they have really good product. Owners and product managers tend to have really a good delegation in communication and decision making skills and though the reason we made the mistake in the past of saying well we want our incident commanders to be like engineering managers. Managers are injuring. The problem is one of the rules of incident. Command is you're not a resolve her right so If you're an engineer in your day to day job you're not necessarily a great incident commander Hendrick because you might be the person who is best equipped to help solve the problem. But you can't solve the problem because you're trying to run the incident. You're trying to move the team together. So we've it had a bunch of really interesting experiences. I've seen a lot of other companies have adopted this as they adopt the ICS and it can be that you're not a kind of a problem with saying having a formal incident management role within your organization. But look at what those skills are and where those things he's come in and how those folks can have that understanding and follow those processes still follow the same process. It works really well. Yeah I think that's a good approach as you said you. You've you've taken it from first responders in incidence. I'm brought back into the world of technology and services at that. We live in one one thing. We're hearing a lot We're interested in the space. Wanting we're hearing a lot from people we talked about. Incident management is with all this. That's a movement in the cloud. So you'll have cloud money. Cloud providers on software as a service providers providing applications join the infrastructure. So if there's any real L. incidents in those environments they don't come to the organization still handled by the cloud provider. So typically what we're hearing is. There's a reduction in instant value per se which is would wisconsin was positive however when an incident strikes or when it happens it's generally of a bigger issue and a bigger challenge to try and resolve because he has taken care of behind the scenes by the cloud. The Saas provider. I you saying this in your experience. I think it's what we're seeing is more of a distribution of incidents because again as that responsibility the is is is being shared among the organization. So what happens is you have folks that are responding to incidents more frequently frequently than they used to write so. That's a challenge again. When I think back to being admin and carrying a pager and I'd be on a call wrote up for a week I probably like got paid like six six times during that week so I knew how to send response because they did it all the time these days as we're doing the great thing of putting more people on call distributing the load being more focused focused on what we're in you can go a lot longer between being involved in incidents and the problem is practice makes permanent right so you don't want to have it be you page than on an incident? You don't even remember how to log into Patriot because you haven't done it for six months right. You don't WanNa be trying to remember how to do post-mortems because you never do them. Yes there's reasons we want to practice. This one is because again practice makes permanent. Just so that it's that but it also goes back to that trauma thing right what we WanNa do do everything about an incident stressful. It just happens right so what we WANNA do is we want to create a physiological response in ourselves to incident response so that when we are paid Dan we are doing everything we can to minimize stress. Because the number one I'll give you. Here's here's the most important thing to do in an incident. This is your Golden Golden Golden Ticket silver bullet. It's words don't panic. That is the most important anything else and to not right right so what we wanted to this thing so when we do things like plant failure injection game days. Were practising doing incident response during a call time right so that the mechanics of doing it so getting alerted on our pager or our phone or whatever logging into our incident response system working through through the communication bridge and all that stuff. We're used to we. Here's the thing that human brain is brilliant and it's also really stupid right. We can absolutely trick ourselves. Dell's physiological association is huge like the example. I give all the time. So I've worn contact lenses for thirty plus years and when I put contacts and I wake up more you become more awake and when I take context out I get sleepy. And that's from thirty plus years of putting them in the morning and taking they gave him out before bed. I have taught myself and there's all sorts of things people do. This is a silly thing is what I tell people to rotate the alarm sound on their phone from they're paging system. Because you know how that happens right when he always get that same alert and it means you got paged. When you hear that you go in you have this response? So he was up so that you don't create this like Pavlovian response to incident response. It should just be like this is just a thing we do. It's cool. We're fine nine. This is just a thing we do so practicing that and doing that practicing also and this goes a little bit into when you talked about having these dependencies on cloud providers and SAS providers and things outside of this we want to plan. Those failures are going to occur and what we want to do is have them be non events right. I mean granted if like all of you know. US Amazon goes down. Everyone's having a bad day. I'm sorry that just happens right. That doesn't happen very very regularly. So it's Kinda but it's not uncommon to have some kind of degradation to some. Api Talk to is usually degradation rather than abject failure so we want. We want to be testing that so that when it occurs we know how to handle it. And that's where chaos engineering comes in in these ideas ideas. Because I always tell people like if you think you're not testing in production I got news for you are you just don't know you are right. So it's much better to test a hypothesis this like an and that's what we're trying to do with failure injection as we're testing a hypothesis. We're not breaking things on purpose but I have a hypothesis that if the payment processor is degraded right so I assume this. API to process credit cards. Let's say my hypothesis. I've written code that if it returns an error every other time I will handle that okay. I'm hypothesis okay. Well I better test that in a controlled way because I sure as hell don't WanNa test at two in the morning what. I'm not ready for it. So this is letting us understand this so that we have better resilience and robustness and reliability to our systems. Because our systems I I got news for you. Our systems today are always in some state of degradation. There's always something that isn't working and we need to embrace that as a fact and be able all to build our processes and our infrastructure and our approaches to handle that so that it's not for ability to deliver service to our customers estimators. I looked at 'em the fact that systems aren't some kind of state of degradation and even for all the cloud and the digital services is that are out there they have to be coupled together and it's probably that Copeland interfacing now is where we see some of the problems. But that's probably the heirs we should looking at testing Doing the things you said. The plan failure injection Come to the Federal Fridays now. The moment because one thing you mentioned I just WanNa come back to tim you gave us. Don't Hynick love it. Don't panic am especially as you said if you're one of these One of the large a public cloud majors and and it goes down as you said for the whole east coast. Don't panic because everybody's down say fire is not an emergency to the fire department. You know. That's fantastic fire is not an emergency fire. Great story we were when we were developing our incident response process. We actually trained with assum. First responders with some firefighters not fighting fires but just on the process and there's a great story that we heard. which was you know? This happens all the time but firefighters there at you know edified home fire and of course a homeowner is panicking and freaking out as you would because her house is burning down and then the problem is that panic is getting in the way of the firefighters being able. We'll do their job and so what they say is hey this may be your first fire. It is not our first fire right. We got this. So that's that's why all all this practice is important because we need to stay calm and go through our our mechanism. Everything is different. We want to be able to expand our energy on figuring out how to restore store service and not calling ourselves down and doing all those things. It's it's it's it's okay. This is just the thing that happens. That's fantastic that's fantastic tool so you were talking about plan failure injection but I- leads me on to tell us a little bit about your failure Friday's sales like full of pizzas and and break something and then go figure it out absolutely so we call them failure Fridays because we initially did them on Fridays. Now they're really failure any day but we still affiliate deliberation but the idea behind this is first of all so for page agree. There's no good time for things to doubt right. We are at twenty four seven three sixty five. Trust me we have. We don't have maintenance windows right. There's there's no time that's okay for. Add now actually. The best time for page of duty to be down is during our business day when everybody's at at work because we have the most people equipped like the worst time is two in the morning when everybody's on call the best time so what we do when we do our Game Day our failure. Oh you're Friday. We do it during the Business Day in the middle of the day. And it's all very plant so the idea behind this is take service we take a system and we say what again. We're are exercising that hypothesis our hypothesis. That if we shut down for example the experiment might be what happens if we shut down three of the EC two instances that support the service. Yeah the hypothesis is that everything will be fine because we can do that so we we build it together and we test that hypothesis but the things that are important when you do this is number one. We run it like an incident. We have an incident commander. We follow our normal incident response process and that's for two reasons one being it might actually turn into when it's right of our bodices wrong giving us a really good way to practice so that we have this. We do this every Friday whether you know we're always always we're always practicing the other thing that you need to do when you are running a chaos experiment like this failure objection. Is You have to know what your most important Horton business metric is. And that's the thing you're watching and if anytime that starts to dipper become a problem candy sperm you're done. It failed so a good example the the reason and things like to watch or not CPU utilization or network There what are your key business metrics and some of the classic examples are like Netflix Stream starts for second. That's the number that Netflix that they see that number. Go down there like we're done. Let's move on Amazon averaged cart size for us. It's delivery notification time so you need to know what that one thing is that you're watching and as soon as it starts to Deb your like all right experiment over. You know we've gotten in front of it and this is before your customers. There's notice before it becomes a problem. I don't care how much CPU my sequels using. I really don't but I certainly care if people are able to buy shoes assuming that you sell shoes if you don't take to me the that's that's that's a fantastic thing to to to bring open this session here because as you said it the key anything to be watching is one of the key business metrics not an it metric gauging them and seeing what happens fine I think from my experience over again. The last number of years is a lot of people if they even did something like this to looking at the wrong metric they're looking at the. It things then. The business are screaming. Hey as you said. The carts aren't being filled or the valley was. What are you doing here? But we've got good. CPU over here. Exactly always always tell people when I have these conversations. I said you know how your company makes money. If you don't go find out I'll wait. I'll tell you could be waiting getting along time depending on who you ask. But it's incumbent on people running these on managing and building these systems to know the business metric. Because that's what we're in business for and yeah we fleshed out in our research as well. It's a I think it's now coming to light with them especially with the devops new versions of Iceland. This is they're looking more business. This metrics I'm trying to say this value is the other stuff is good. We've got it. We understand that we've got to manage it but that's not where the fire is noticing. Think as you were describing your failure. Fridays I'm just saying it's a fire drill. If you use the fire amount of our fire personality it's the fire drills every every week. It's it's on its tuning yourself on. I can say about lead such an organization on a group of teams and people all been able to say. Yeah we got this. I go deal with it rather than hit the panic button. Everybody screaming because sometimes you'll get those senior execs ZAC ringing down saying. I'm putting a lot of pressure on to probably do the wrong thing. Just for you like as you said to homeowners telling pulling the fire guy. Hey don't break that window to let the smoke and the fire out so he can hold it down because I'll have to replace it. He's like I'm going to do it up because it'll probably to fire quicker than the other approach. Thought we take your to push back. We call that executive soup and it can be very disruptive erupted during an incident and it's a big skill for an incident. Commander is to know how to handle that and we do a lot of training around that. But I'll give you. I'll give you one one tip. So the at the end of the day the way you prevent all executives swoop is keeping your stakeholders informed and keep them informed somewhere other than the response call have a different way to keep them up to date because most of the Times these happened because they they come from the best of intentions right. These are folks who this is their business to. They're trying to help. They're trying to get information. But it's disruptive but the thing is so this is my my little my other little tip for for folks listening. If you're running an incident if you're the incident commander and executive CEO Jumps on CIO jumps on starts parts barking orders. Saying you know. Listen listen to me do what I'm saying Blah Blah Blah. There is one key phrase that will help you every time and you say are you taking command and watch how quickly that person does not say yes. Sometimes they do then fantastic. Great you're done. You're like three CEO's and charge but more often than not it's a it's a lot of stuff and we do a lot of great training and if you go to our we've opened source our incident command training at response that page of duty dot com. So people can check it Out and there's a lot of great tips on handling executive swoop and stakeholder communication. You don't have to use our product to be able to use these these technique yes. I'm Ah we'd love to have a look at that and as you said it's open source use it. I like an executive swoop. How we avoid it have a separate call talks to them of that being involved in the the firefighting call? which really make sense because everybody's onto call making noise get them off it? Get them somewhere else. Inform them slightly different but maybe a little bit of language and I think that's really good and I love the the question. Are you taking command. which also also Maine's responsibility or what's happening next knife out really really good as you said you're training your mindset and your team people to be able to react engage get on get things done and then get onto the next thing? I'm possibly. I think it really fits in this digital space because so as I said With waiver coupling a lot of clouds and digital everything together. I think we're getting less incidence of as the minute I'm more of the complex. Nature that requires more of this not less probably required more of it within an organization rather than being outsourced just as a process outsourcing exercise so much more coordination because there's so many people that get involved volved now because you don't you're going and looking at all these different contributing factors in a cascading failure because usually major incidents are not one thing that happened. It's a cascading escaping. Failure of a lot of small failures all happened in a unique way. And so you have to do a lot of coordination to to learn from that. Yes yes you're you. Use The example of the the firefighter I've Example of the airline industry nine in cross that they never looked for single root. Cause it's always a number. We're of things that have happened that led to a catastrophic accident or whatever has happened at no single root causes multiple causes a happen on in in a certain sequence caused x to happen So I think those examples the firefighter examples still from outside of our General Day. Today they were you know people have really trained for. This is really good but I have a quotes. I'm just gonNA read a hair. Yes really good so resilient organizations organizations are not traumatized by routine threats to their mission. Our business non. Resilient organizations are readily overwhelmed an often subject to symptoms of overreaction shut down on a lack of regulated effort. I think that's a fantastic quote. I think you've kind of covered what that means In regards to if you're not ready for it you're going to have a negative reaction and your non resilient resilient means being ready being trained we have the equipment we have the people we put them under stress. Put them on the pressure in good times so when the negative thing happened they're going to go on. We roll out the machine. I think that that speaks to that quotes and I think the real key about is about the word resilient saying we think about being resilient it's different than being reliable a robust rights resilience about planning for the things that we know are going to happen resilient organization. Resilient system has adaptive capacity ability to flex around the things that we don't know we can't plan for because and that's where we can run into that analysis analysis paralysis and trying to think of all the things that might happen and is also this idea around incident prevention. Like how do we prevent this from ever happening again. I'm sorry you don't it might happen and again for a different reason for different combinations of things but if our system and our team in our organization is resilience we can respond respond to it. We can adapt to it. We can flex and we can minimize the impact that we can continue to service our customers users and keep everybody happy. Yeah he he said respond adopted minimize. I think that the key things about this has been really good. I I really like these sessions. Where I'm you you know we delve into the outside world and bring it back in? We're going to finish up but I'm going to ask you just one final question maybe to give us a few comments on. 'cause you did speak speak about I. I love this. You know you spoke about Why blameless post-mortems matter on why they're so important so this this this holiday of a blameless postmortem could you just expand on that for a moment absolutely and there's a little bit of a lot of times when we're talking about blameless really thinking about sanctioned lists but blameless sound good and the thing is we have to be blame aware like it's our tendency to look for a human failure right and a person who did a bad job or something? The problem is that normally. That's not the case. Normally it says it's a phenomenon around mistakes mistakes happen. They're going link to happen. But here's the thing if people are to put a really broad stroke on this if people are afraid of being punished for making mistakes. I've got news for you. They're not going to make fewer your mistakes. They're going to become subject. Matter experts hiding their mistakes and now you are well and truly screwed. Because you don't know what's happening so what you're doing is it's not necessarily embracing failure in terms of like Oca- job you broke something awesome. Here's a here's a pony but great you brought the store attention and there was a really the interesting thing is just one of my favorite series on. Hbo Is just come back. On streaming installed from the Earth to the moon. and IT'S A. It's a documentary series like dramatization station about the Apollo Program. There's a episode where they talk about the Lunar Lander and how it was built. And there's a part I watch this. The other day where one of the engineers sneers realize calculations were wrong and he basically went into his boss to throw himself on the sword. Basically say I. I'm sure I'm fired and is his boss was upset you instead. How did you know okay? This is upsetting this happened. Go home and he's like okay. Clammy knows no go home get some sleep. This is so important that you brought it to our attention again. I'm not thrilled that this mistake happened. This is not great but you brought it to our attention. We can do something about it. We can learn from it and the more information we have and the more that people are willing to share information the more that we can all learn from incidents because incidents. It's our a gift. They are systems telling US something. We didn't know before. So the more that we can think about how we learn. And we can only learn by having a culture of trust and and that comes from being sanctioned listen blameless and it's hard because what do most people WanNa do they wanna find the person to blame they wanna say it's a singular root causes ause. It was mark mark stirred up. We're going to solve the problem by firing mark. Okay all kinds of problems with that right. You know we'll probably knows the most about what went wrong mark. I'll tell you what my I'll just. I'll just pack up the desk and the Oh you're quite right. Yeah your way to reliability. I were finishing on one of the best quotes. I've heard you cannot fire your way due to reliability. I I love that. I think we got the contract. And I think that's part of this organizational change and managerial change mindset that we need to get into do In this I teed stab ups for whatever that is because with good people mistakes will happen. gift people empower them to own up and deal with it. Learn from it now if you continually make mistakes and you're not learning maybe there's a process person has to go through if they're learning on making less mistakes and adding value back in some toxic fantastic but this has been. There's been truly some toxic eye opener I think this session. We've gone from Earth to the moon. I'm backing didn't expect that one. So listen I'm say listen. Thank you very much for joining us We've got some really really good tips. We've a good reference point to some open source material from yourselves so we'd like people to go off and have a look at that. We hope that makes a difference. Might thank you so much for joining us on C. C. Tops. I'm sure we'll talk again. Thanks so much for having me. It's been great. Thank you for joining this episode of CCC talks. We hope you enjoyed this episode and walk away with a ton of actionable insights if this is your first time joining us. This is US extending a personal invitation to you to join other. It and professionals. So please subscribe on itunes youtube or Google play. If you're struggling in any capacity in your digital transformation journey contact us. We'd be more than happy to guide you and find you the right certification courses to help you manage the challenges. Modern businesses are facing this was CCC talk until next time.

commander CCC executive CCC Amazon US Managing Director Stratton Judy Matt John Deere Netflix wisconsin Marco Laughlin cloud aws
The Technology of Humans

CCC Talks

38:16 min | 1 year ago

The Technology of Humans

"Welcome to CCC talks empowering it and business professionals in their digital transformation journey find all the latest tips the tricks and strategies at our blog and resource center at cloud credential Dot Org and our host CCC Managing Director Marco Laughlin Everybody and welcome to another edition of CCC talks. My name is Mark Lachlan the Managing Director of the CCC and today. We are John by the renowned Simone Joe more as ammonia. I have met numerous times over numerous years. Numerous conferences on events. Some stuff they are talking about. We're going to look look at a few of those areas Today but before we do that. Why don't you tell us just a little bit about yourself on what you've been doing recently what l.? Let's say all the official stuff just looked at Bennington per fall. I mean really the basics in the easiest thing to do rather than run through the list listed where I've worked and all that kind of stuff and all the various skills and expertise bear So what I kind of like to tell people than is is that You know get to know someone on the human side. I guess I'm not really particularly clever nor especially gifted on just extremely curious curious about I will One of the things I really enjoy doing is probing the hearts and minds of what really makes business. I take an allows all all the conversations that lead to that whole evolution revolution to really jumps out people's thinking and behavior and actions Our work on four key business principles and I find that regardless of which organization or what. I'm actually doing over the years. It stood in really good stead. Did the first one is people connected. That's the principle that regardless of whether it's face to face using technology the way which we about connecting people and Not just the how but who also connect is also important and based on that Principle we can walk into the next one which is sharing knowledge which having knowledge shared is the only way we then are able to Work into the next principle of discovering possibilities. Bt's in all the different ways in how we analyze and discover and Report back and feed that back into the and then based based on that we can realize our potential so they might full K.. Things people connect acknowledge shed possibilities discovered and potential realized from task. I think as a changing world today is a key focus on those areas or should be athletes evolution or revolution one person's revolution that somebody else's evolution. There's also depends where you're coming from but I think m As you said yourself curiosity I think is is a key trait eight that we need something that I don't know if you can teach it so much people have it in built but certainly in today's ever changing landscape. Curiosity is one of these skills that we certainly need on the lot. More of to examine and pro. We probably look at a little bit of accuracy trout this session today. So I'm going going on until you've been traveling a lot as well this year. A lot of conferences every probably pull in some of those findings From from your session today what I want to talk to you about because there is an overlap in all of that skill set on the people side of digital We've spoke out about the people aspect I think technology speaks for itself South. It's good. It's their works. It can be difficult to make different technologies work together. But it's not overly complex at the end of the day I'm one of the things. We found that we did a our digital skill survey twenty nine. CCC Skill Survey found. That wasn't a surprise but we had to go ask the question. Russia that the sequence for digital success is guess while people I technology seconds I mean I mean but when you look back over the evolution of I t I think it's been put. Technology will solve problems. They may have been sold like that or people seizure thing to do you know but a big surprise so people I technology second now in in your experience your travels levels with the organizations you speak to the people you speak at these events right there. I seeing that people and the organizations are understanding that today or they still trying to lead with technology you know we get bombarded with Iot cloud and all these solutions are they going solution first and then they realize well. We have albums equip people to be curious about this stuff to do the right thing with it or are they looking at the people side but what you say well I think it depends on the maturity of the organization first and foremost because there are some organizations that grabbed onto this technology and really with it and that may is also based on their culture based on how they structured and of course the people could I have the skill sets and the capability so those are the first things that I look at one of the key things that people are starting to grab a hold onto it is realizing that Those the foul fosters something we've talked about before in whether it develops in an eggshell thinking etcetera but in doing that. I think they started to discover that the human side is the gap things will follow up and from the This something from the Institute of Digital Transformation I call it a readiness framework and I understand triple say has some similar Melissa around Tina discovering how People Eddie's for doing transformations and I think the key points may that come out from that are really the technology is just the catalyst that's catalysts. So I look at movies like mission. Tomorrow's which is one of my favorite movies and look at some of the technology big using this movie. I love it I look at it and I think this is great. But there's is one line in this one part of the script that says has that been tested because they'd go way too expensive to do that and of course they'd be at roll her is going to take off to Mars. They might never come back. Law Hasn't been tested on so me we no matter how technology advances which still having some of the same conversations. Yeah Yeah how is that what we are seeing some progress. So I think in the last twelve Particular organizations starting to understand that this structures can no longer. I I to sign the way Whether they flattening normally tournament team so thanks the traditional approaches riches through organizational. Change some of them still solid. Some of them still good but way we need new ways of approaching it at new ways of thinking. Yeah Yeah Yeah. I'm I mean I'm what I say is well with flattening organization so no problem at organizations flattening. What I we see? Challenges appearing though is flattened. Too much of a decision making doesn't happen or by flattening the organization taking out the layers and layers of what's called the middle management per se because they're not useful anymore or let's say I'm not saying that's the case but that's the perception. Perhaps that the people with experience built up over years are then exiting an organization so those people that have seen you know thirty twenty ten years ago. Let's do technology I and it doesn't yields the results that we want are probably the people that can champion the behavioral change up. You won't today but but we're flattening your organization because that's what the mantra is but we're flattening. I think for the wrong reason probably from a cost perspective and to think we get more agile but in some organizations I've seen yet I think what they've done this. They've lost The focus around the capability yeah ability required to support the new structure. And that's what the that's what they missing is that they've forgotten that those people that they need to be told how to be made the decision so it comes back to again. How curious At problem solving skills sits at decision making skill sets but it not just the skills in order to do those things but giving permission to do would as well because in flattening structure you now giving decision making mole to the front line which is where it needs to be. It needs to be waiting to happen in order to do that. We have to give them the guidelines around one of my favorites in the world and my my favorite mental following you. You know his his if we want innovation starts with disobedience. We have to help our pay. Not Everything is not perfect process. No perfect technology coach. We have permission to be disobedient to the walls as when it's appropriate but we have to teach them that's okay we have to give them psychological safe-space to be able to do that as well. Just give them the skills to do that. Lofa I've seen ever session on intelligent disobedience. I think it is on using the analogy of the guide dogs for the blind person that knows when to disobey disobeyed rule because of APPS. If you haven't seen it though sater's from tastic Really good. I think that that's not another part of is. It's not just about bringing technology as we flatten the organization. It's about developing the people and as you said the new structures were putting in place ace so I think we've never done this before an industry where we're adopting such new technology in such short timeframe the changes very quick now wild. We're reorganizing the organization significantly. Were you know moving away from the scientific management the l the NBA Akram full of this stuff as to how you structure Org Into a new kind of structure. That's still being understood. I think as you said that. That's not good so intelligent. Intelligent disobedience is good that leads me. I think that's a good segue into something you've been talking about. I've senior present it. I love it y'All the only been talking about it all year emotional intelligence so fast. Tell me a little bit about what in your view. Emotional intelligence is why it's important wants and what it can do for organizations. I'm people during this time of of let's digital change all change well It's interesting they are true. Facets what I've been covering in the motion caption set of things so you just use hate odds for short the first one is definitely the human side of which I will get who is well This will set the technology side so If if I think about it I'm studying to talk a lot more around the EIA of a because people are focused on the technology. Side of things I refer to it as machines humanity humanity. We forget that it is and it's really about those three. Three interactions with technology people to process in people to paypal and I have a quite that. I've been using a lot and I really really enjoyed by Cook on. And he's a principal data scientist and executive adviser Allen Hamilton and he discards discard out official intelligence not as artificial living in France. Sweden like fake things It's an off official show. He's changed the A and I think it's a smart actionable intelligence minted or accelerated or even assisted assisted. So think about if you think about what we want to do. Ross factly that it's how old mentor accelerate Out Human Intelligence. So that's a much nicer way of inciting artificial if we can look at it how we as humans interacting acting with the technology. And what is it the hoping to have at the end of fasting direction to me. I think this is really good stuff. Welcome back in that in a moment because we see we look at a as well. We've we've done some courses on that but a big thing may in developing that was to really define what artificial artificial intelligence is today because it's not like stole for the Science Fiction Movies off tomorrow so I think that's important to define what it is and to me. If somebody said you know could you describe somebody who does know what it is. I tell you it's automation using the latest technologies which are more adjust or something like that but want to go lacked. Tell me again the the instead of using artificial. We're those words that you're now using that you've heard I wanna wants to hear them again. I thought they were really good. Okay so what do you think of I think of it. This intelligence is a Wednesday. Okay I think of it as actionable. Actionable fantastic were augmented. Yes yes or accelerated even assisted. Now think about it. That's exactly what we anyone want to take action old Manson is just making something you know making it better bigger accelerated. We want the spe eight today. That's one of the reasons we have such at L. Focus. is we working things to be even foster and assisted. It's better to help us some task. there's some learnings are I think that's a real I. I'm taking that away. Says had explained is so that goes beyond automation running use those. They're really really good but is narrow case. I see some organizations what they're doing with the latest in technology. Great at those certain things as they seem to who entre rely more on the to do more work on strip away. The human element basically downsize outsource whatever that is so you end up with technology the then works to whatever prominent as you code into it with a little bit of thinking around the sides but not huge thinking that are we taking the human element away from businesses by putting it all this super tech. Well this is when we think about the IAE. So And that's why I WANNA get to the the human training we need to do in af I but I I has to have a team otherwise wise. We're actually going to lose the ability. Always it's just executives. Automation and machine learning is brilliant. But it's not I so to take it to the next level there are companies doing some pretty amazing things So you can look at the organizations that are doing a facial recognition. And what what they're doing in terms of facial recognition is not just about a security emerging Emotional caution into technology enabling machines. It's two cents an adapt to human and with the analytics it they gain so one organization in particular is got over three and a half billion million faces catch it is expensive million faces or something like that over eighty seven countries genders and everything. Now what they can do is then. Combine that knowledge into driverless. 'cause which is being experimented with now and if say the machine actually recognizes the micro expressions sir. Someone starting to fall asleep. They can socialize with allows on the person is like Oh okay but even organizations nations in Hey char a now using facial recognition for candidacy interviews so that they can actually assess someone's my career expressions and things like that to get a Besse more more unbiased understanding of who this person actually as a hiring. I think that's okay as long as that's what the company wants to do. That's the type of process to do. But I would also suggest that unsure it's in that organization that it's not the only only parameter that there is a person of the hiring process actor. Then ask the person as well but it helps. Yeah this is what I mean by augmenting skills so we still have the hate you hurrying says but there's no reason why we kind of use a to help because do these things and we work with them as if they become a text body. They're calling do and I think there is is a gap that I I personally say in organizations. I'm speaking to as well where that also means you bring in the technology put it in place but then upscale well the staff that you have to use the AI buddy or whatever that is to again do a deeper job or more the intuitive more effective job as well. Yeah that is not a case of bringing in technology and be used displacement of people you know I. I think there's a case in some cases that will happen. That's okay that's the business model but another cases Is Look at your people look at. How do we develop our people which we've developed over over last five ten fifteen twenty years? We know them. They're good and they can acquire. How do we develop them into the new type of worker that we want to capitalize on This technology I think that's going to be a winning formula for the disrupters off today and tomorrow is how they recognized how they upskill their people to use the latest in technology to actually do something better than their competitors were using technology to save costs. Well it's quite interesting because this is where The World Economic Forum put out. You know the future of jobs report earlier this year and one of the key things that with top skills it is and this is from a global perspective required. One of the top ten is emotional. Intelligence and Welsh. Should it actually get them airing now on a bigger scale and never in the history of calm down calm down by Intel to come us. That's probably three hours. Experience just isn't and the reality is this you can be sitting at a desk and whatever you do throughout the day you will experience energy tiffs. So you'll be in a high energy mode in the morning perhaps or it starts to lower again until you get coffee and then it will pick up again and as as we go through a day energy levels shift so we kind of call that wear and Tae wearing into those. We're in zone for a while but you can keep operating to certain level but if you don't go into what we call rest and repair mode you'RE GONNA crash and burn and so this is why we look at the reality of e motion if you like or it'd be emotion of motion as going through the highs and lows that's fine but we also shift positive and negative and it can be something mild like we just irritated. Russia to rage and PAYPAL's hape vocabulary is very limiting mushroom intelligence. I thought like there the more that they can describe and use to you get to the hot is exactly what level. They're at makes it easy for them to understand and manage that Teacher emotion and it's he's loanable renewable. This is this is not something that is Just based on who I right now. If you fundamental of EAE competencies self awareness self management social awareness and relationship management. We have to create a safe environment. FRAPP hey pool that is more than physical. There's a real untapped. Potential talent pool when we allow them the space to have the courage and freedom for their talent to emerge and influence in expand expand. That and it's no longer walk in the door in your emotions castle when you walk in the door you know it used to be old capable heathen and just not It's not professional to show your emotion but can do that. You actually deny the whole human being you. You deny people stop engaging engaging often it myself. NBA Manage a contest ceilings. You're going to be a national. I know but now I think unless in I said management sausage required for today. It's a different thing. We're using. Not Machines managing edging and time and motion and all this kind of stuff and widgets true processes said it's knowledge working. It's thinking we need a lot of creativity city right now and you don't get up. I shouldn't people down. We're putting in these. Large hierarchies by Well to call it a fire blanket to innovation exactly exactly it. It just dampens everything I mean you say it when you walk into an organization and they have the these wonderful banners and things thinks might say all we passionate people creative people innovative Pico and all this takes emotional intelligence the whole thing business relationship management relationship agility You look at all the words that they using Just last week they announced that Alexa now has emotion but his space because I love his guide to the galaxy. You know this is going to use the worst thing. Is the lexus emotions. At the moment. The developers of the ones that are inputting. Mr this three levels of intensity and it's not a happy and excited sided or disappointed in the empathetic. Now we know that saying you favorite football team just lost all. I'm really sorry. He is a certain level of ternent. Can Hang into sarcasm. If we're not careful. Allah apart grandma emotion hat bautzen and everything. Yeah they need training this department and I shouldn't say Laura understand him or can you put in the widest range. And like that sarcasm is how do you detect Sirkka does a lot there. So that's why I think. Ai Is in a certain place. But it's it's going to be twenty thirty forty years to be in. I think that level we have a journey along the way. That's why those four as you've come up with their that you mentioned are so important. I think to understand what it is today and I think the emotional intelligence part isn't on ourselves and using these tools on forward to recognize how they support that to get the best on these tools. Because you know if you're coding intelligence that's not a deligence or responses or emotion motion that's not emotion so we've we've allowing it to one of our favorites that we've seen at conferences. Both you dive snowden and one of the things he talks about in terms of our values and our emotions it driven by a lot of the quality experiences we have mean values news. They never really. They don't reach an in point. And our experience continues to fluctuate in change all the time. So when he was saying that true values taught and declared played They evolved through our action our interaction of living and so the very basic things that visceral. Oh he's leaving Saudis and values compass absolutely anew can if you map the history of evolution. They should've Aleutian. Revolution here. history. You'll see different behaviors over different histories based on what was happening and how we learn. I have a quote here. I'm going to read it and so we get it right. Take things very good Afro Yourself. Do this emotional. Intelligence is the needed skillset because the human side of saying just getting lost a I am I like this. A an robots don't have an emotional connection with the customer. I think that's very important. I think that's missed at the moment that they they the AI. The robots today do not have that emotional connection with the customer. It's the people it's the workers and to me. There's significant value in organizations understanding that in developing their people to have that emotional connection with your customers. Because if you don't what you have is a commodity product a service risk of no differentiation. I think that's what we're missing with. This technology is trying to do quicker faster better but missing the emotional connection election. I think customers are missing that too with asked they don't see any emotional connection from your policy service. They just see it as a commodity probably won't offer free probably don't see any differentiation to not law easy to switch. I think we have to think about it. Like the extra example You know that we just talked about. It's like he could possibly go wrong anyway. I'll let that one go for a moment. I think it's interesting. We're taking step but there's another organization I've been in Looking at some of the race it and basically what they doing is Working on intelligent emotion. I for for voice. So they've been specifically working with. PTSD so a lot of war veterans and analyzing the rhythm and tone if they voices this and looking at stress levels and being able to diagnose at what level in pay and also so let's face Semitic events that he changed to treat outbreak and therefore our emotions and muscle tone which affects speech. So they've gone to that level and cowboys's are unique prints just like fingerprints. That's why we use it insecurity sometimes. But they've been able to achieve an eighty nine percent accuracy recei in distinguishing those that have Patriots Day in those that done so. I think that's really interesting. Because whic kind of bridging the communication gap twenty minutes and machines now by introducing the STOLID. Ai And imagine your service desk agent and you've got a customer on the phone that's You know it started off okay. But now they're getting bit frustrated or whatever the case might be your Chapel Body Day you'll Colegio. Ai Collie because they're using this technology able to sense based voice changes before for you may be able to and pin you Oughta know some kind of message reminder call on to met you know and in a little grass. It's moving all you are able to adjust your time and rate of stage just to a to the appropriate to help that customer low it enhances the orientation thing enhances that interaction so I think onto level. That's fantastic one is. You're helping our society of people that have been pro challenge postmodern stress disorder. And how to deal with that. So that's one part of it but cleverly bringing that into service because people do get agitated. There've been waiting for a long time on a problem. Do not ringing because happy. Something's gone wrong and if you can bring them along that journey get them down and get things I saw because a lot of times and service tasks sardis contact centers. Were trying to fix the problem for focus on finding an answer rather than the individual answer we might not be as responsive to them to kind of calms them down and get them to produce again. I do said that emotional connection with the customer and I think as a you'd you'd find you in our customers ringer desk. You know our colleague a lot of them call with challenges and problems but when they leave. They're happy I'm people who services just to be happy at wrong and fix and they were happy fixed. So does things break as much as I often do. It does but the journey that we take someone through to self any shoot the way we make someone feel that. That's still so the court to Acumen way is but that's that's going to change. I don't think it has. I don't think it has. I think maybe it gets lost little bit in the technology and the lower cost kind of conversation. We might come back that another day. I think there's a day session in that. Small role must open time. But there is something go want to ask you to just mention you can elaborate a little bit You're you have a aliases. So you're also known own us. Go with this. The service management mixologist. I and a human API EH. Before we finish I those I want to expand on what the mixologist is. A mother does the. API IS I wanted to. The the human happy actually is really easy to explain The majority of people will probably need is know what an in fact Sam. We're always doing that trying to get to different things to talk all the time. So basically I another exactly a robot but yeah. I am program to help connect. I'm going to say we never said you're a robot but seriously I think that's a fantastic at name or Monica. You've come up with human. API because it's not human on know about the technology APR's and connect all clouds and digital kind of stuff. I think we need more human. API's I think you're certainly model for that. I just briefly am Msci I loved because You know if if you're going to a human epi you also have to that Mangino have to connect all these different things Part of it in and I have a standard In if anyone knows mixologist coming from hospitality industry it's mold and just someone that works in the bar and might make a cop out. I actually understands and knows about all the different ingredients and how to actually blend different flavors and understand I guess the chemical composition that will shift and change how something tastes and because I travel you should I think it off the language. The Bar probably came up with. Yeah I think it's It must be me Irish blood in me anyway they drink a moderator. Because every good Bob Person you know there are certain standards. Ranks moderator is so simple it radiates radiates and has very few ingredients but if you get the balance roll yes he really know about it and or it's just a little also and it can come down to the even the soldiers to whatever that is if you think about it think about all the different frameworks and practices. We have out uh-huh whether it's Prince Workforce Planning Auto Bashi Develops IT Service Management Human Resource Management Kyw's in value stream methane. Hey H D. I there isn't you know You've got practices. They not just it. Based look at all the business. Best Practices from finance from Hate Shaw from south of mark. When you look at an organization we want to be able to blend these practices desist because there's no one that rules them all and we need to maintain management commitment You need sponsorship and reinforcement. It needs cultural change structural change tooling automation and trust and collaboration. Now every single one of those frameworks and practices etc.. They all take emotion intelligence and relationship agility to work. And you need that. Connectivity and understanding of how those ingredients can be blended into the unique to hope for that organization. I Love Side M. Yeah I've looked for years. I think it's about getting not only the ingredients abuse abuse at the right ingredients quality ingredients and for US people framework standards all these kinds of things and the tools technologies pulling them on Tom Blending them into the right makes for that organization. I think if you if you expand the mixologist is around the world at the People's flavor a little bit different so something that's makes damone. Country might be blended slightly different for pallet. I think that's important as you said I thought we do take this kind of mindset. That's why I wanted to ask you about the world. Definitely a mindset on how important it is so not only we do we need more human. API's which are fantastic model for we need more mixologist organizations which are also fantastic examples for. Yes okay simone fantastic. It's great to have you here. We're up on time. So thank you again for joining us today. I think we've got some really good insights ice on all these talks. I take away things. I certainly a lot to take away here. Especially the four as I'm GONNA go back later on and re listening write it down. I'm going to remember number them because it's better to say a is about automation. WHOA SIMONE SAYS A is about here remember did come from Cook born? I've just instead opted fantastic will reference as well. I do think that emotional intelligence and emotional connection thing as a huge part of this change from the story on all things digital. That's going on small John Moore. Thank you very much for joining us on the again soon. Thank you so much for having coming back. It's been great fun. Thank you bye bye bye so Just as we're wrapping up SAT. CCC talked with Simone I'm She mentioned that there were a few other points a few key takeaway. She wanted to give us so. We started recording again to capture though simone if you could just share with us those final title salt. That'd be some plastic. It's just a couple of things that I love to finish recessions off on because it's really important to understand emotional. Intelligence is not the opposite of intelligence. it's not a triumph for partial overhead into section of both I think a key thing just wrapping up and thinking about the stuff that we covered is that the collaboration we have creates conversations and those conversations create better communication and that in turn creates wider transparency and full. DEEPA trust fantastic. I think that's a good formula as well so I think there's been a lot of takeaways from today's session and for those who watch the second bit here the last bit. I think there's some extra an Easter Easter Egg. Let's call it little Easter egg for our listeners. Who stayed on so thanks again? Simone appreciate that and we'll talk again. Okay I hi. Thank you for joining this episode of CCC talks. We hope you enjoyed this episode and walk away with a ton of actionable insights if this is your first time joining us. This is US extending a personal invitation to you to join other. It and business professionals. So please subscribe on itunes youtube or Google. Google play if you're struggling in any capacity in your digital transformation journey contact us. We'd be more than happy to guide you and find you the right certification courses to help you manage the challenges. Modern businesses are facing. This was C._C._C.. Talks until next time.

CCC AI Simone Joe official NBA US Russia John Moore Bt CCC Managing Director Mark Lachlan Google Sweden Intel Iot cloud Marco Laughlin sater
Taking the Headache out of IoT

CCC Talks

57:15 min | 11 months ago

Taking the Headache out of IoT

"Welcome to CCC talks empowering it and business professionals in their digital transformation journey. Find all the latest tips tricks and strategies at our blog and resource center at cloud credential dot Org and our host. Ccc Managing Director Mark. O'laughlin everybody welcome to another edition of CC. Talks With Martha Laughlin on the cloud. Credential Council today John by Allesandro Bassey Iot expert on central Europe area manager at things and also if that wasn't enough president of Iot Italy Asandra. Thank you very much for joining us on. Today's podcast time having meets right now I was onto you. Describe yourself as an IOT expert. We're going to drill in on that in a couple of minutes. We know that you're heavily. Invested in digital transformation industry four point. Oh big data iot amongst money things and you're also leading one of the biggest EU co-funded projects on I'll T- free excitedly haired. That comprises what we believe of nineteen core partners on hundreds of stakeholders now Alexandra. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Also this fantastic project working on the not feeling thousand Sam which makes like tortillas today and What we're looking at the beginning of the help the European Commission to draft the very first calls on it and to make fast We'll have forty European Parliament at being part of the extra group mocking two dozen. Ten right So I'm coming in from diverse backgrounds. The midnight I'm starting with technology. Aman they work with clouds and big data before recalling clouds the daytime so a long time ago unfortunately in the recent years with a focus is really more on how to implement some sort of Kogen strategy for companies to transform the business I mean towards connected objects and how pieces of disposal together I is not by itself doesn't make sense in it's big data in that division dancing a lot of stuff of men with really two eighty You project you're are talking about. It's not a One of the huge problems of teas that such a you know par- such a galaxy of different technologies. The approaches different style. Not even the definition I mean is is is a single of. I mean if you search from the Internet connection the appropriate. Probably like forty or fifty different definitions. I myself I get three of them in history and you know if are moving. I know that's not really correct. Some teaser. That's because really it's it's really complex. Mean what exactly is what exactly he beats. Now that given that I mean given the plug that what I see is basically a something which have sensors actuators Something which is observing some physical entity which can be everything in anything can be the temperature. Israel be myself and be the eggs on the fridge and basically creating a digital twin or digital entity Between because it's very fashionable. Now nowadays people do stand them in when talking about him you and basically a man without the modern foundation of what we're talking about. It's it's very complicated on impossible. I mean two different systems dot at the moment there is goes not so fast and then there was not single entity on single company can do from head to toe so that must be some cooperation collaboration between different companies between different vendors. I stop and if there is not not even a single language but a single is a way of understanding what the problem is. Ben Is physically impossible. I mean to make San Siro. The quite as the European thought it was Fundamental who developed from sort of common scheme the architectural reference model which is completely records model. Which is talking about in huddle model appropriate. I have a problem not problem or not. Basically at which functional which communication boggling eight which security Barwick need and then some sort of reference in one size it still does not work in the field so we need some sort of blueprints or a or a set of blueprints and according to fit requirements. You know a specific problem than can follow. I mean these. I mean in order to be able to stable architecture and how has a project finished are still ongoing at a European level? What is old is still a pretty loud. That's very it's very interesting. I think it's so important for all these newer digital technologies that you know what we see and we promote as well as a one size does not fit all kinds anymore and even for cloud file not for big data you need to have some kind of reference architecture model some security model all these different models to pull all of this stuff together. You know it's all loosely coupled these days even though it's highly integrated I think that's a massive challenge Another thing you you mentioned there was sometimes iot. Isn't the solution to the problem. But you're trying to solve but IOT can be part of a solution you know you don't wake up in the morning and say we want to deploy. Iot Let's go. Do you probably have some problems or challenges or some something you have to do in the competitive landscape for. Iot can actually help you gain the advantage that you need but not necessarily. Iot on its own because you need big data a on Olympic some probably cloud behind that I'm security and compliance and all these other things that go with it so it's good to hear I guess they e you level I'm sure the global level but certainly have the EU level. There's this view a. How do we understand this for large community like the European Union And then whether there's another one for the US states or somewhere else or whether other organizations order jurisdictions look at the U. Model and take that maybe that's the I guess guidance. Classic you we find this as well. It's very difficult with your technologies to define simply in a simple definition. So you said you seen about forty or so different definitions for Iot. I know I've seen lots when he go search. We've number of IOT courses. We've tried to define it in a certain way. Is there any definition or phrasing that you've come across a fryer listeners? That you might suggest would be a good starting point for them to define what Iot might be for them. Well recently. Basically I came out with a tweet question checkpoint to man and the answer is yes of three Amanda You are talking about not a problems. One AF is the physical entity Europe serving with digital tweeden. Ornate it's too if an actuator sensing the environment but also more defined environment and the number three is a certain level of intelligence or competition. I mean if you can technological directly linked in the device itself and Ryan. You can buy your team now. I like that because I've asked You. Typically every you know how many people have is you give a definition or can you give a definition of. Iot On you've turned around and said Oh you know let's look at the. Let's give you three criteria to see. Are you talking about Iot? And if you answered Yes to these which which you've just outlined to us you probably are talking about. Iot. I like that. I think we're GONNA blogger site on another day so We'll reference up actor yourself but I think that's a good starting point I'll ask you a little bit later. I think that's a good starting point for organization. Siva think about Are there sensors? Can't be sensors and play that kind of thing that you work for companies. Well call them. Things describes herself as European Design and Innovation Agency which is pioneering in the realm of consumer. Iot can ask you. What kind of innovations are you seeing coming from the application on the use of Iot so the end results are the competitive advantage or the innovation? But what are you seeing out there the team if they can do the Wildest at the Phoenician while the resort. It's a game changer. It's completely told their defense. A piece of what we have seen today. It's probably even bigger game changing on the Internet cell. The Internet know we all know. The word is is totally different today than when he was in the nineties before the web stock conditions and it was before the web find off and then there was the second of Aleutian. You know one point. Five Revolution is probably the mobile solution in L. A. Today you know if you take a teenager. Vital to tell him I mean in a hope people use to meet before was what apple or before it with mobile phones you know. People use the mini vans menu. Megyn that you shouldn't have been there pork to take people in I mean somehow and today's impossible. I mean if if you don't have a mobile which yeah and freeze of Asti believe that referred to lose their wallets or mobile phone and look at. What was my wasn't a problem. Just the bank and the credit card. I'm Don At what is important to think about the Iot in the consumer field is not what it would change in when when the revolution in what will happen. It really changed a lot of stuff from that. We are are dealing about day. Example amusing very often. Is the Fridge Fridge today? Basically is quite as French that is able to order your X. or litter butter your meal. Your orange juice and own. Let's say eighty percent of the product that you buy weekend without a man leaving Libby Fonsi fusion Or some specialty Frigid is able to do that is to how many extra inside is able to say. Okay if there below three years ago or say because I highlight Boy in the morning or nominate or whatever and is taking care of that just gave the Order that like the OH. I don't want to spend more than thirty year offense on ADS. On amid singular higgins before and be on automatic performed by the Mouth Bridge Weddings. Going on a patient is helping me. Sometimes I think about washing machine is basically the things that I can buy myself just exam. You know and going through supermarket to buy exegen extent. You know there is no advantage of me going by the eggs or receiving the X. tool magic and But if you think about the deeper you know business behind that is that doesn't mean that my preach took to your reaching talk somebody on the listener page and then we can order three hundred six three or six and then we don't need to go to supermarket but in the producer director and producer. Okay I mean like we want one hundred of your ex tomorrow in which price I've been making for us so what you need to convey the sorts of bitching beautiful buffalo which a broken. I'm to the bottom producer to produce food producer. Now like killing the supermarkets business off right keeper Margaret There is debris Brooks you know in big box you know a lot of producers and consumers. That's why I now. In Krona Virus Times such a agley place to visit the together all August is and really Magin if these done. Virtually your fridge by some sort of platform. I'm in Connecticut now. Of course the probably Amazon or bayless may think about it but one of the issues winnings the skate of it you know. Think about giving away one million fridges. I mean they're able to connect to the Internet One one fraser man. We're able to do this up. No we just get a fifty year old guy which is Which likes how would we know? And Likes Plato Saints. In a is that is very knowledgeable. Review is not a problem that what is the problem is really what is behind you. Know Old Days Analysis or via problem or the connections aiden systems The fact that the fridge of seem car all on a support so articles decision business decision that needs to be taken about the driving cops. Yes No Noah. The denies Driving cops is that's not. The fact that a convenient facebook meanwhile unraveling the newspaper is the fact that they can bring me the office and then drive home in my life. Her office My father to Medical Center Mike. It's school and go to pick up a shopping at the supermarket. The main by itself can bake me up again for more He can bring me to a restaurant. I mean in the center of town. I don't care about parking sickly because south driving docking bar and kilometers away and this is just one one will one car and if you think about how much a car misuse today which is in Europe on average four percents of his lifetime which means the ninety six percent of his lifetime. An average Farren in Europe is part Probably two or three or four five families making just join together and get one car. Because it's unlikely that you need the car for for an amount of time that physically. Hama burying him in the US or maybe a tooth regards every group of finance savings for. Yes yes these ward is it a killing. I might have to go to a large faction and say well. You know the number of hours that doesn't need in the market in the next five years is not like one million. But it's fifty there's another revolution. I mean in the industry sector because you to maximize the number of units sold but to maximize that might be used of the units. Yes Sir yes. It's way looking at it. Exactly but with the Bausch and tell them that their target is not to sell in thousand thrills but to make me and holes and Include production any just need ten thrills for A. Yes maybe you need on conference now what I would bring completely new different business model which we will put some of the curve business in a totally obsolete so they will need to close like a internet. Would some business obsolete or mullets. Say and the and and create hopefully new -tunities in new avenues than you wrote a mouse. Isn't that we call industry four point though the next those revolution isn't found the essence of what happens during on industrial revolution. That the business model that got us here today are not necessarily the model that will last during this revolution for the future. They eat eater adopt. Change us the technology to think of doing things differently in different ways in different business models or they're likely to witter away and not be in existence by the end of whatever this revolution ends is not part of the cycle right at the moment. I think we're in the industrial revolution. Were getting you're technologies more often We're trying to use them. But a big thing is the organization struggle with is trying to imagine what the new looks like trying to imagine what the new model looks like trying to imagine as you said well you know I might say. Why do I want the fridge to order eggs because I just like going to the shop? That's my thinking from the previous revolution but I happy put clothes in the washing machine rather than scope to myself. That was how people used to do before washing machine so I'm conditioned to what I know based on my experiences from the past but the challenge is trying to break from that experience knowledge to apply something like IOT to do something new and different to challenge models to do things differently and I love that idea of. I'd awful happen but everybody close all your neighbors ordering all the eggs from the fridge. Going directly to a supplier rather than the shop. You'll get better price pints. You get better delivery. Get better whatever that is. You're cutting out the middleman but also behind all of that. That's a new model and if you're a business you want to expand the fridge fridge analogy into what does that mean in your business and your supply chain. I mean we're talking about eggs and the neighbors but really what I want to think about. What are those eggs in the business? Context was the middleman in the business context and the supply chain. And how could I use that type of analogy simple thinking to change how I do business in my industry and I think that's the organizations that will use Iot Correctly I will use it to their benefit going forward. But it's not the challenge trying to figure out what is new based on our past experiences. It is a huge challenge challenge and you know sometimes in a win win. Speak to conference as of two events or two or even doing some consultancy. I meant the as phase investigating the visionary science fiction's support behind them in honor. Go back go back to the to the seventies. I mean talk about mobile phones and then looking plane I mean not days but hooking a plane I mean you just using your mobile phone and checking in using your mobile phone number boarding bus on your mobile so basically you can do the whole process. I mean the only at the Ohio Or or frank is your phone. You can be on your phone now. What do you think is the right industry photo? They're still big innovation. One movie of Product and second division of grosses so how to build Expresso What we see and is now. Put THEIR THAT. Hatha of precedent that what is he is not so much a lack of investment of lack of money or doing this. It's more industry are like. Why shelling do you know I the is is teary? You now may be going. Decently well You know when a competitor going to do it then we are going to go. You know basically waiting for next on like I don't want to be the first one on the train. If the train is leaving intimidates address go sit on the train in minutes before the Chinese leader? Yeah yeah is waiting on to stand. I mean when the trend is limited. And that's the challenge because Demi all scramble and get stuck in the doors and some of US get out don't and I think that's where we are at the moment There's been some leaders having a go but a lot of I think cautious minds thinking. Let's say I think they need to get more inventive. I think they need to go into the. I don't go with the Blue Sky thinking but certainly they need to stop looking out. Current models some business models and operational models and supply chain models. I'm think new then put solutions like Iot and the big data and all these other things. How can we get new? All of these technologies On how can we get ahead? We know that organizations. I can't get some competitive advantage. Probably are the ones thinking like this at the moment or investing in time and the resources to go think differently so many of us are still can the business as usual cycle You know working in a managing the now not thinking about the future. I think we need to think a little bit about that because we are in this. It's fantastic be an an industrial revolution to see it. You know when it starts at Wembley and you know we can debate those now. I think we're in it seeing it so were part of it. I think it's important for us to to take to take Saddam. Maybe on this point I saw quote recently from the chiefs to of area systems. Brendan O'Brien his quote. Is You know. If you think the int- the Internet has changed her life. Think again the Internet of things about the change it all over again and I think you've just what you're saying. I think it talks these now what I wanted to ask you about. That was maybe two types of Iot here again just to keep things simplified for the moment there's two business application of businesses looking at should be changing how they do business job creation models that we spoke about but isn't there a consumer side to it so another example. I'll give you is a fitness Fitbit's fitness tracker that. If somebody so to them you know the exercise go for jobs to go to the gym even under resting sleeping it's generating the ADA and they use it but to them. They don't see that as Iot anything they probably don't even use the word. Iot regarding their fitness tracker they talk in terms of the device or diop. Such are using or have this fitness tracker. And it's tracking calories miles role. And all this all this kind of stuff so is there. Is there something for people think about from an IT perspective from the consumer side or do we not want them to think about it? Another example is the heating system so we get term stops now that you can operate from your phone when you're not at home. Do you all use it loyalty. Sensors and ops and all the technologies. But I can tell you I mean. My wife doesn't think about how to switch on the heating. It's really a switch on the heating with the they don't think about it in terms of Iot so isn't there element of is largely hidden right there wrongly to the consumer or they probably don't care about the oil tea part they just care what it does is on the implication of that. Yeah well you know. The savings aren't by the coolest Acknowledging that technology disappears into fabric fly. Hbo AND AND A IN A. Let's say what you you. You're sizing is clear example of steps to war. It's not but it's not fully it. I'm happy to our twelve. Fitbit's him that you know when I go to gym is measuring. How many stories amusing and so on and so forth but what? I like some subtle. A fitbit is talking to the machines that amusing or our me exactly which way that should lift. Because you know I'm thinking like okay. Maybe you know the deadliest is for me today a lot. You know maybe for what aid should try eight your hundred twenty and today what. I'm doing if you know feeling yeah more or less. I think this is okay. I mean my boggling. Thirty things so aebischer that think he'd be what's Amenities Acknowledges. I'm do is because they know on my lap right and thinking about fit bid up in the next set it up with the French and no washing my in what records. What for launched what cool? That's that's probably not a good thing for me with a fitbit and afraid on. How many abused power tools? That's rate of. We'll stop buying the things that I really want to. The shouldn't eat or drink this stuff. I hope there's a bypass it's for some of that when the fridge. Nobody not hauling beer time. I mean it's fine. What okay I'll take that we should. We should be a bit more healthier. What it means that in a win went is is object. Samantha can how our lives some into to make feel better. That's honest affordable and also on when they think decision but also you know who to which is what we are supposed to autists a fully-fledged identity theft. That's we go there in a lot of data behind it and the date is basically my life home watching on sitting on the chair Am I supposed to go for a walk even ten minutes minutes just to time? Sometimes I remind myself to do that sometimes. Don't and then you know like a women's like five hours sitting on this chair and Edina move the your tight so assembled and Antonio Support I mean can can definitely help I mean. Let's say for wellness. I mean for a healthier life in a better life but what we have today is is. I want to say how Bates Solution but not for sure you know. The complete are not solution that we expect. Yes and that's again I just said we're in this journey of Industrial Revolution. So we have to do it in stages I think stage one is getting people to use and except trackers then the owners going back to these companies like fitbit or whoever that is to go and then redevelop that for the next phase or the next iteration as you said okay. We now know you're using it. Let's see let us give you guidance on how to do the things you're doing based on what we know about you. I guess that requires this disintegration. Iot doesn't use you. Said arrogant does not exist on its own it needs to have maybe cloud behind it huge amount of storage a still in there and you know a big data because of all of that is part of the. Iot story isn't it. It just doesn't exist on its own. That is like I life. Examples is something almost insulting so there is this company will not name it men in endorsing anybody but living there were serving the fact that not the deportable cameras will come on how cabinets vividly you shop renowned. Let's because we will have a mobile home. Then the if you need a picture we take it with a mobile phone and we we send it immediately. And we'd Messenger without whatever and you know because they didn't want to kill line where safety hackery make if you know or or you know to keep in the competition on prices and excellence and basically will. I will suggest amendments that okay. Well the box for free you know. Just give cameras. Just go on the website. It just your your address and we should Arafat with little. I WanNa have thing attached with the possibility of fusing the images seeking in enough for commercial use. But you know whatever used Koreans you know you are in the city you take a picture are at the city means said into not state of the park. The state of the green if he needs a some reason to me or something is is is needs to be a change on before it's the urban a settlement emanates modification for for the oldies Latam. I mean the problem is that okay the camera taking pictures. There's no problem the coming out and in the picture to cloud uplinked no problem. The problem is that imagine twelve like one million cameras in a city. Applauding a ten million they today. And you know anticipate is did freshness of the information is vital. Because you know we need to cut the tree and it depended now another six months ago. Will you know that you should have at the three? That is a bit too late. So that the problem there is develop basically a Beckham which is able to sustain coles or applications. I mean the can be you know huge it different but only modest. I'm in In almost real time so he went on talking about music seconds made. You're talking about minutes or hour for some in but Salem in sometimes sometimes it's to be fast and she didn't amount of dates. I mean that that needs to be analyzed the issue that was not really faulk. That's how much data you can. Actually value story can extract from the data. But if how much we need a body that's an interesting view is an interesting view. I think we too early for the. I don't know I think organization stare some that. We'll think about that and how to capitalize. I think it's an interesting view on a good point of something. Different FOR THE NEW WORLD. that's not overly radical but it is slightly different. I just taking these pictures on the pictures. Relevant to the person taking it was also relevant that has value to similar organization buddy groups that might be able to do something else with it. I think that's I think it's interesting. We'll see where it goes Have a little bit later on what we found is and WANNA go. You Co authored. A book you're involved in an a book called the enabling things to talk. We liked that especially regarding IOT. You think that's a great idea. And it was looking at designing IOT solutions with the IOT Natural Reference Model. I know he spoke little bit area about the EU looking at reference model. Anything else from that book That will be of interest to our listeners. Regarding Iot the conversation we're having well in the book is crazy in the movie for free and that was that was was a decision men because basically we want to give the widest possible audience. I'm in his two. I'm not getting any I mean for the knowledge. Just you know pride personal pry but not not the money That book is divided into parts of the first. Barb is higher levels to make people understand what I see is to make the send which kind of revolution we can expect. And so on and the second is much more technical so okay we are a startup or large and we want to develop a specific product owner. Not What we do next. No one example that the again I was using these is the gun that shoots or a only to bad. People is an Iot problem. Yesterday's in all of that is a physical entity. Which is the bug eye and a beautiful entity or digital twin? Which is the record of record before? There's a fan services obviously observing. There's actuator and there is some sort of intelligent. What needs to decide if the guy in front is bother not says they can and should in is in the picture he seeing if female person he sees. They've is basically acting something that you simply walk into the street. I mean minding his business and songs or end Daniel decide either district or not and fun idea but the problem. The problem the issue is that will Use the main of funeral to show how the problem like this can be model model can be Which kind of protection you need for this. I mean is it feasible. Global Senator Cloud someone in the word or you need to put information closer to where gamma stop or even in sort and sort. Which kind of technology would you need is five G? Today will be five. Gm in that will be good or not and then to develop so the second part of the group is released hopefully trying to guide the mid developer come in behind in picking the rights modeling speaking. Right Communication Begin. The functional blocks and protocols being technologies. I mean in order to solve the problem great great. So there's a lot in there We noticed I two parts of the book and I think that was a very good choice to do so the book enabling thanks to Talk Designing IOT solutions with the IOT architecture reference. Model as you you. You're one of the authors of the book on free. We'll do blog about that millennium. We'll talk a bit more about that another day and so I think that's a good reference reference point clancy question gutting organizations under use of Iot It's it's it's a straight question. Where companies going wrong one or two of the big areas where? They're they're not doing it. Delay they should be doing in your experience. Where are they getting ready going wrong with? All this IOT stuff in Italy. Ray of you know if you play tennis that is typically found expression which is the bet. She'll bore short car I think that organization should be daring more. You know I'm I'm again. I'm not endorsed with them but I would expect somebody like Amazon to go much further. I'm in translating completely. Let's say a photo bookstores than many of marketplace over the Internet and then Cloud technologies. Because you know. Awf is basically Main cloud technologies. That you can use it as a newsletter staff you know. Aws Is there. So I would expect Some of these big players into to have more guts and and go for it in. We're not going back or they wouldn't Ford Yeah. They seem to provide you with the platform the Arctic under software to do something. I'll t but used to figure out how to connect the get sand to get all the things together. So certainly in Oregon with companies. I've spoken with machine regarding CCC that they're saying that we expected that we went to the software platform for. Iot and it would all work. What we found was a part of what we needed to do. But we have to figure out the other eight things that we had to do to make all of this work and not just seem to complex. Good can I'm going to turn the question around and say in your experience stand. There are companies are doing very well. What are they doing right that other companies could think about well to do things? Well in your t. It's it's a very subtitle alchemy in a sense. I mean if you're not it cannot allow corporation like or Amazon and invest like billions into a You need first of all to our betty plan on your first. The focus whole that any product An issue in wants to won't business probably not solving a which stopped here. Yeah we want to do it. Blasts which he should have been resold linked to a man to truly think about what Nathan Franck in the back close with only channel sensor and becomes a factory w need but also which Beckham need which intelligence you need to put on the machine itself an amber cloud. I mean in order to solve the problem and number three and also very very and how to scale because you have something which is sold in ten or hundred. It's one thing if you saw something which is like millions of hundreds of millions. It's it's a totally different beach. So sometimes a man I a he abroad or review projects. And they're great you know if if the Eight hundred a objects and the Logano. What if he you know what? Forget the thousand dollar get thousand orders. Oh we figure it out. Then I know you're by tweety printer and hope it prince. Whatever you need for. Iot Is a good point as you said what scales well? They're scale well skill. In a couple of things. Senator actuators their scale and then the data that you collect. That's GonNa get muscles if you scan the more vice as you scale the more data. That could be more cost than again. What we're seeing. What I what I've seen some organizations that have gone into Iot On the site. They've turned all the collection Sanchez on. They collect everything but they know nothing. Because there's so much data it's unstructured. There's no no way of analyzing it have yet to figure out what it is. They want from the data or it's just too vast that they almost give up or they've missed an opportunity that they have so much data that if they were to analyze it get the scientists to figure it out that they could have some gold but there to structure to even figure out the unstructured data. So he said I see. That's a big big big challenge. Sir Can I ask him regarding data as well? A question comes up a lot that we hear you. Deploy Samaya t devices and you're getting customer data back. Whatever form that is. Isn't there a big challenge but organizations regarding at data privacy insecurity or is that just put in the cloud on all your security problems are solved brought the cloud. Indeed I mean but there is a huge Ronin with with privacy and security again. Let's go back to phil talking to your fridge. I mean you might give permission to your fitbit plus certain data. You might give a permission to ask a certain data. Do you give fit bid and the fridge permission to dockage each other and you know what you give the fridge permission to talk to Your Insurance Company and support you know the house. He have been fun so I mean there. We're really entering a very delegates area. I appear to be pretty invasive in people's life it's again in the Basel speaking a lot about Inter That's because number of reasons because we're talking about Kunsman does that the devices which cannot support a very strong encryption and the indication Forth are easy target. I mean for hackers in a box two or three years ago. If you wish went to black at home Francis I mean to say you know hacking windows. You know so So last decade out include talking isn't it? I can't even get a fascinating case. Study as a couple of years ago. Now I'm sure we can find the details on the web. It was a a last Vegas. Casino was hacked true an Iot sensor in the fish tank the lobby. I'm like wow. I've used that ever since in talks about cloud IOT whatever digital technology it is. I- fits because it's always about security regardless of the technology you cannot forget I would think and maybe you can correct Nevada. I asked you earlier around where worship businesses start to one of the first thing. He said. We'll start with a plan. I was suggested well. Part of that plan should be as well heading. Call Security and data privacy and let you plan that well in advance as a how we going to put it in maintain it on ensure because say you have these Sensors undrawn consumable devices. If you're a company that now gets hacked and that customer data gets exposed. Your company loses reputation on trust and consumers vote with our feet snow Harrison if you lose trusted the consumer groups they may well leave you. Buy Your your good anymore and businesses over. So I think it's it's such a huge part that in essence some companies still focused on oats. I'll T I don't need to think about security. I think that's the wrong thing. Security and privacy is part of any of these digital technologies cloud big data not whatever that is on the so interlinked you can have all the security on your. Iot Sensor which your data center gets hacked where the information is stored in your big data. Goes Yeah I think it goes back to thinking about the architectural reference model that you mentioned in the book on that expand more than just warn architecture about Iot designed governance data security process. It's so expensive I think but I'm I'm still seeing organizations looking at Iot as technology that will solve problems and do all this great stuff but they don't understand as usual they have to think about all these other things as well especially data privacy security and then there's a final thing on this as a I think where you store. Your data is as important. And if you're throwing in a cloud you know where that is because we now have different. Data jurisdictions E U Law different to. Us Law different to save American law and Chinese law regarding data privacy or lack of data privacy in some countries. But if you don't know where your data is because you're in some kind of cloud wherever that is that maybe a problem to don't even know so we can create problems that we don't know we don't know about which can be very pay difficult. Should something happen I think? Yeah Yeah Yes oh totally through. What the security Yemen. If your audits Kennedy Hawks. It will be hawks who you know. Every by the is that as much security as reasonable I in in your clinic for Fitbit is not the nuclear policy so clearly. You don't use the same harbor made you know Put as much security as needed from the very beginning from the city. Initial Design Staff Timber hacked anyway. You know there's no silver bullet give enough time enough motivation enough money. Somebody will event yet. I'm we're seeing. We're saying not as been a lot of security breaches last year to around the globe when large organizations losing data. So it's not just this new technology at some of h digital stuff. But I I like that phrase. If if you have a device assume a can be hacked it can be hacked will be hacked so I think you have to assume that way but I think you have to go then through well this device for example. Use the Las Vegas Casino. Where can this device go walking to get into what can access? What data kind of expose that? Las Vegas Casino found. They'll they got hacked. They lost a sizable sum of money. Due to a unsecure santer the the fish tank. I think by design IOT devices are very small. Jen just generally especially consumer devices so it does put some restrictions to appoint on the level of security and the chips. You can get in there but I don't think that should be an excuse just to say that the technology so small the security chips we can't we can only do so much with it. I think we've got to do better as an industry. Well just one thing I mean. I don't know the data for maintain but two dozen he incompatible devon seventeen. I mean the hacking of medical data grew tenfold can't Lord one and why tenfold amid dissecting simply because a man hawkers to hospital the hakodate especially private hospital and then say okay put. One million dollars is bank accounts. Laura you know next day you know own medical records would be open to the. Yeah Yeah and then when you know more and more medical objects are connected connected web connected to whatever then can be you know a Fan temperatures sensory not inevitably or at the moment of a patient. I mean the NBA and move. You'll you you end the whole medical system especially in these fields. I mean medical field wellness consul Fordham. And it's really fundamental respect man as much as awesome the securities thunder and patterns nine. Yeah absolutely I think in the The straits times we find ourselves in there will be a big push now to people using medical services more remotely. We're having now in these times and I think it'd be more sensors to allow the doctors not to you know. Don't come surgery. Here's a little kit. Hook this up. Give us a call and we'll be able to diagnose you more but I think we're doing that as you said. We need to focus a lot more on that security because it it can open up some so doors and at this stage we normally ask you some quickfire questions. So I'm going to give you some questions short answers. We'll see where we go see how we get up. We've a couple here am is iot over heights. What do you think yes or no I? Yes in the sense that for marketing purposes. Yes No. We'll be arrogant. Option stills marketeers again isn't it they just blow this out of proportion but if they didn't sale now do 'em to in order to use I. O T to organizations require large investments large capital investments. To begin with what you think. Small-scale can be true generally true but again it also depend by a talking before the scale. Yes fair to blank you. Hi Yes indeed. Yes but then it can be cheap entry points so scale is a good indicator as to what investment you do need great good you can also plan the scale. I mean so. That doesn't occur the the fact that do not have billion dollars bank account. Yes yes yes. Most companies well. Most people organizations don't really understand the potential of IOT faults. True should they start learning about the potential of Iot? Well they can forget for their payroll. I mean or just an x is extremely dangerous. True got this. You got this ask you. All you need for. Iot is some sensors. That's it. That's all we need to know. I think we just go around. There's so much more that even people have started to do Iot. I've only realized then what I've seen in my experiences to get to the end of all of that. I'm the then realize we need better security and data privacy and innovation from Iot will stall or proceed a slow pace for the foreseeable future. What you think about that. This is really a crystal bowl rescue because You know in my stove. Another two years and boom explode in my way east will for six months are five years. I mean to me if I were talking before about. The train is up when turning supposed to leave only eventually. Yes so so what we have is. There's a train we've a lot of people waiting to get on it. We don't know when it's arriving but we know when it does to be a big scramble for the door so we'll get on some won't get good. I like that. Maybe the train will have some IOT sensors to workout to correct. A number of people should be on the train and then closed or finally. Am You know money? Companies have looked at doing something with Iot but they have failed to find something of use or something capable of generating revenue. You think that's true. False statements well. Mit through often because they are using an old business model. Yeah through a data not to exist in business model might be big bodily so when you when you're on adults a fool. I decided you opt to embrace also sometimes totally new business models. I think that's fantastic as we're coming to the end of this that adopting IOT with traditional business model is unlikely to get you success. You've gotta think different have changed in mind. Probably start with the existing model and then break it down into all parts but then leave their move into thinking Alexandra. That's that's fantastic sounded. We're finishing up. Do you have any final words on how Iot is relevant for the Times that we find ourselves in right now? Well if you know more devices will be sold at home. You can do some first folsom health as the poem area. If the fridge can order the Exit Butler I would not supposed to do a super rocket so I mean social these easier into to us and a lot of stuff that connected device can help you. Ultra keeping faith. The total because you know is not easy. I mean if you don't have A. Jv Nuggets play football or whatever or tennis and then the problem so disconnected device if there will be more into the fabric of our lives. I'm sure that it will give the time Rather than you know checking every day you know. Hugs the curve going and winning the an expected and for one. Yes yes I guess What will probably do as well as have a lot of individuals and companies thinking about new ways of doing things because we're having to experience new ways of doing things right now Some of them we can do some of yet to imagine so maybe from these difficult times. We'll find some enlightenment in in all of this Asandra Bassett. Thank you so much for joining us. Today on CCC talks. I think that's been a fantastic view of Iot. Thank you very much. Thank you thank you for joining this episode of CCC talks. We hope you enjoyed this episode and walk away with a ton of actionable insights if this is your first time joining us. This is US extending a personal invitation to you to join other. It and business professionals. So please subscribe on itunes youtube or Google play. If you are struggling in any capacity in your digital transformation journey contact us. We'd be more than happy to guide you and find you the right certification courses to help you manage the challenges. Modern businesses are facing this was CCC talks until next time.

Allesandro Bassey Iot Iot IOT Iot Fitbit Europe Iot Italy Asandra US the Times CCC European Union Alexandra Israel Amazon European Parliament Senator Martha Laughlin
Why the Distinction Between Deep Learning and Deep Thinking Matters

CCC Talks

42:36 min | 10 months ago

Why the Distinction Between Deep Learning and Deep Thinking Matters

"Welcome to CCC talks empowering it and business professionals in their digital transformation journey find all the latest tips, tricks and strategies at our blog and resource center at cloud credential, Dot Org, and our host CCC Managing Director Marco Laughlin Hello Everybody and welcome to another edition of CC talks with Markle, offline and the cloud credential council very excited today today we are joined by Piero scruffy. Piero number of years was a founding director of the artificial intelligence center based at California. Later moving to Intel Coq, one of the earliest companies specializing in artificial intelligence Piero has been a visiting scholar Apple Harvard and Stanford, conducting research into a on cognitive science, and if that's not enough, you've written. A lot of books are very prolific author and recent books include thinking about saw, which is in four volumes, looking at cognitive science on intelligence is not artificial is a book on artificial intelligence to singularity and post human condition now Piero. Thank you so much for joining us. Today. Thank you. Tell us just a little bit about yourself on what you do what what's happening recently? these days I call myself a culture story because of the many years in the. Software Sulphur Industry and the with With the strong interest in a in the arts in culture. I really more interested in studying the history of our species. From a cultural point of view I mean a history, books tend to focus on wars and the. Generals? And not and they. They neglected a little bit. the cultural world that he might be. It was very important shaping at the history of our species and just people just how people behave, so these days are more of a cultural story. My background, a study mathematics in Italy and I moved to the US stock at this deficient valujet center. And that was pretty much on the world of Silicon Valley for this last seven. Fantastic, so a lot of experience there lot of background. I think! Some very interesting areas to explore. Not to get started. Let me ask you I guess a really simple question. Simplest can be what is artificial intelligence. WHAT WHAT IS AI? Yeah. That's that's I should a very difficult question. As you as you as you well know, has been around a long time. and. When I entered the I which was in the early eighties. It was relatively easy to define. Because there were two schools one was rule based programming, and the other one was network. Programming! And those are different ways so program computer, so it was really to say. This is what the is. That's different from programming. In well today we will stay in C- job. I saw in those days. It was other languages. Money wasn't the program now. Fast forward to twenty twenty. And the be all the progress has been a certainly a lot of new A. Lot of improvements in your concept one school. So far has one over the other. But people started. Calling are deficient. Deligence a lot of things that I think back then. Would have called. And the more popular becomes. The more things I see all the I. A. So. It has become a really. General and Double that y'all so have a Hollywood movies at Hollywood movies further complicate the banks I mean if you go back to touring surveys, the misquoted the paper than you have a behaviorist. If initially I and machine that. Behaves just like being. But that's very big of because you can you can have. Simulations human being said then you would consider. A human beings you know it's not. It's not difficult to tool. To create the a not official object that the that the remote control the behaves like human being would consider it. So, if initially is not very easy, these days which is good for people in the business because you can. See grow. Names because I have a friend who has been doing. Thanks with statistics for a long time, and she just changed all the brochures aware. Start up instead of statistics. They shut. They say machine, learning and sounds. There is an element of that I think, and I think when you're talking about the a another thing to be called machine learning whatever that is. You've got to try and understand. Some of the basics some of the basics of what this swath this is. To be able to see is what's being presented today? Something that existed in another form previously, which was to labels changed. So other thing you mentioned that a I can be called other things one of them machine, learning other neuter phrases or names that you've come across recently that get confused with Ai. Nov Now. There were they is becoming a prevalent, but again is in sometimes means nothing so I prefer I mean when you talk with. People here were really doing Then there would be more specific on Work Young Ganz. I'm working on that that that the transformer mantle so it's more specific than than you really know what they're talking about. When when it starts up, tells me I've I product? I have no idea what's behind it. It could be all fashion LINEAR SEAN could be. Thinking that you may have noticed in my in my talks I tend to Also much mystified, but just tell the truth to what's going on that I called it holy day I in Chinese. I on those are the two extremes and I want to offend the Hollywood. The want to Chinese. Yes, the to extremes now Chinese AI, which is really also here is when you call just about anything anything that these automation. And Easy is unbounded, not all it just very popular. Why do I? Do I become Chinese? Because they Chinese missed the first sixty s sob of the history so the. Tell the story they they look at me like Oh really. We thought I was just embedded five years ago. Is Not so clear to them that they I should be a quality. Should be inherently different from the way you program a cooking situationally. Also of the traditional. Computer, Sunday Mile. And that's an approach that is widespread now everywhere. You know where you rightly saw three guy. Why because? It automates something that humans do Hollywood, I eased a the either doesn't exist. That will not exist anytime soon in all the X. mocking kind of Ai yes. Where the machine does amazing things I saw now the the I did I know. Most of my friends know. is a way humbler than than the holiday, I and A. WAY SMARTER THAN MOST OF THE I. Consisting really tweaking allegory Tamar. Day and neither a deal angrily work and we a lot of math, and sometimes the result is machine that can Can Listen To me speaking now, and and I become the words. From task I think straight into their difference between Chinese A if I understood. is they think it's only been invented the last five ten years, or so because they don't have a history America Hollywood a being. It doesn't doesn't exist at the moment, so somewhere in the middle is is what we're talking about there as you were saying a few examples and I have heard you mentioned those phrases on talk about that that encourage any listeners listening in to go and have a look at some of those sessions are really really good that you've given on that and I think to me that is a really good way of position some of the AI. That's out there at the moment with all types of. Piero of also watched you talk about the alternative and widely biased history of AI. and N that you talk about you know, it's almost like getting an time machine going back to nineteen fifty one as being an important milestone. In, the history of a and I think you relate to the birth of modern computing I think. Is that the overlap? In relation to nineteen fifty one is that where a started long whiskered? Yes I was cold day I, nine, hundred, fifty five, but before that I mean that's that's the year when. I think was Joe. McCarthy came up with. before that I mean nineteen. Nineteen fifty Radi conferences on machine translation. Machine Translation Nineteen fifty one. I mentioned eighteen, fifty one, the be Goldstein now Silicon Valley. Over here everything. Is that US centric? Nineteen fifty one. That was a call Vari- on the thinking machines in Paris, and that's never mentioned the United States wide because he was Europe and also. Ahead of the you're on the Sean List. by the would conferences before they famous nineteen fifty five, so it really depends on what you want to stop. Some people started with a tooling machine. When was it thirty six? Some people started with the girdle so I mean I mean goodell invented much of what will be used later. so you know it's. It's been a progress that started the way back. You can go back to lightning. Back to a lot of people I had this idea. lovie machines cannot automatically. Not doing this. But I think. That if you want, it is when you have the first commercial computers and again in the United States. They think is unique and I created the. England as introducing the Furby which just few months earlier, England to use the first commercial the first. Computer you could buy with it this way. Me Holiday or three copies were sold by. And so that's that's to me. You know reasonable they to start thinking about the of the. By the name in nineteen fifty five. Good and I think it gives people good grounding thing that ai isn't something that just appeared in the last five or ten years, or that's built on all this cloud and digital infrastructure that we now have at existed a longtime before then on. If you're really serious about doing something for today, maybe I was look back in history. Maybe go back over the course of history. See what it's really about. What were the biggest? Improvements in ai back at a time when technology was still advancing as well and it might be good for listeners to go on that journey. Have a look at what people are doing beforehand to really understand. What a really! Pirro senior talk about the author MCP snow and a book the two cultures. And how this relates to the age of a I. can you share some insights regarding? C P. Snow, the two cultures on its relationship with A. Yeah, so. was very interesting care. There was a scientist at the same time Nobel's and one. They gave a lecture that later became the book talking about the two cultures. and He lamented by the pointed out that we were building so Is. GAP, it was getting bigger between science and humanities, and I feel that that's very very a very very true today and today I'd see the as problem so the first thing you notice. Be Very very obvious in a university select Stanford spend a lot of my time is. The is the gap between science and arts at saw. A to most artists, the sciences is a mystery. John Boat and the. Although scientists artists. As best that Sunday, Hobie, yes. Which obviously wasn't true? If you go back to a tiny arena, sound, so tool Athens soda whatever. And in general, the fact that humanity's. are not integrated with with the science. I think it has A. Negative effects of different so. I I I give you a long history along story. Why Silicon Valley became Silicon Valley and that's that's very sitting. Values vary misunderstood. Seal Valley. People think that In a place, China. They think the government invented silicon. Valley I. Think Government Annoyed Year. The Silicon Valley was happening, and the someday appraisal in Washington was reading the. Newspaper said what these these Silicon Valley, and also it's. It was totally independent over over government plans, and a Europe into just a bunch of greedy compete at least that somehow out of nowhere. In bed. This is area and the truth is silicon valley happened in the bay area, which is a place where humanities acknowledging science have quick says that it is. The place. Where you had the crazy a poets, the beat Poets San Francisco you'll. You had the crazy politicians in Berkeley? Some people say Berkeley's the most communist country in the world. And and then you had technology that came by accident, came with your co, and especially with a Cold War. And, it was precisely the direction they gave us. A is incredible creativity. He gave us the garage to start up. which is not the typical European Corporation? And some of these people different go to work in t shirts and shorts Saana. And sometimes drugs do all sorts of. So. Let's there was so I think that when you separate split when you? Humanities in science that you lose your Lou, something that to me is important. A high is also the example I mean today. Everybody talks about the deep learning. which is the modern the most successful branch modern? And deep learning has given us. CE as even as Phase resignation on that song, so it has been successful, or they gave a talk where I said deep learning is not deep thinking. Duma's do is not just a recognize. CACTUS A cat. That's what the easy by the way for us. You months something we do without having to see millions of cats machines into be shown million so cats before the understand. What the Cath. But when we see a cat, the whole story behind cats, we know gas do. And we can't related who to to shredding cat in physics. At. That's deep. Thinking and machines don't do that, and so if you don't have this connection with that, you monetize sometimes. The point. What it means being human and things that you must really do I, mean we? We don't play chess as well as machine. But we can go shopping We can have a political conversation and machine. The place chess very well cannot do any of these states source. So so that's that's my interest in sip is knows a thing that it's now sixty maybe seventy years. Old but I think it says very and so many of the things that I do here in Silicon Valley at Stanford in particular odd trying to bridge. Humanities and sciences. That's that's an amazing view. I encourage people have to think about that the bridge between the humanities and scientists the tale of two cultures. And, then you go on about talking about the difference between deep learning and deep thinking I've heard a lot of people talk about deep learning less people talking about the deep thinking part, and I think that would be as important if not more important as well the you need have both as a balance I. think that's. Very interesting might help people as well to try and understand a bit more about what they're a I. is it doing more of the learning or thinking or what's going on? AM is today's Piero is today's ai just better automation to better software based on cloud and digital technologies, or is there more within that? There is more I mean. Ultimately, that's what it is any main cases. That's all it is. We talked about that. People are really doing I in the lab. And Nice tweaking algorithms while those arguments have something different and. Foundations from the fifties Nanette was Caring for them. When the perceptual was first to demonstrate, it was in the second half of the fifties before that. People like means, ski and others heading blended hardware nola networks. Out so the concert goes back a long time but today we have algorithms that. Allow people to create neural networks along with the hundreds of layers, and there was not available before, so yes, from that point of view computational math, there is something new. From a conceptual point of view. Maybe it's not so new, but the computational mathematician you appreciate that the. There has been some significant improvements that go back. You know I. I really say the two thousand. Six. Two thousand seven is when these algorithms. came out. change the the the chance justice what you can achieve with that with these concepts, so they call. This was before, but without this without that the mathematical Angie you. Do that and if you're in and around two thousand six coincides roughly with the burt of what we now call cloud cloud computing. Starting to come out at that time as well so there's probably a bit of an overlay with all shared resource ability, perhaps or at least that makes it more accessible to the average organization and the average person to see Ai News, AI and action. Yeah I. Think I think it's all two thousand six seven is when the papers were published, but when the first results came out that made people. they attention was two thousand twelve. And the reason is that you need that first of all much more powerful processors, yes, and. Luckily luckily we have the video games and more powerful, also wedding bent for the graphics so that. We have to. And then you need data sets because these deep learning relies heavily on having a data set. That you used to train the machine. And so data sets were developed about that time, so it wasn't convergence of several factors. which doesn't detract from the? Married to the people who invented the US by yes, without the infrastructure happened. Yes we see encouraged people to think from the C. C. Perspective. We've abroad portfolio that there was considering a that still have to understand the cloud to get the mosque compute resources, but also likes of big data to be able to go. Whole data analyzed data store data and. Things like that, so there is a huge overlap. Pure. Can I ask what's coming down the line and a m the most in the next couple of years? Why should we be getting excited today about a what's what's coming down the tracks? So I all I'm personally not. Terribly excited. I'm. Mona! Pleased I'm pleased that that finally we see some results of I, mean in terms of resulting gain machines are doing deep learning, not big thinking, so it's important to. To to be realistic about the can achieve you know think think of the current epidemic. We're talking in the middle endemic. That skilled what? Don't remember united. States along one hundred twenty thousand people worldwide I don't know how familiar. What is I mean this? This super intelligent machines whatever they down for us. I was joking. He had his silicon valley. There were all these. Groups talking about the seniority is coming very soon. According to some people was supposed to come zero twenty twenty. and. I have all these talks about the machines being sewing diligent and then virus comes. And? Guess what we don't have toilet paper see Dali. So. If if the That's so that's. Why don't get too excited. There's this all very obvious. It and these machines have helped us almost zero in the pandemic. What has done to help us? prevent zero. Even, even find the virus beverly clearly. One contribution gain from Taiwan. What they discovered antibodies using ai, but still very. Illegal who who was fighting the virus biologists? Human beings are human beings working day and night. tool to find out to what's what this viruses Indus- when we lay, I do this job Oh, my! I? I mean I would not be alive in all it's. It's so fun unless somebody is an amazing breakthrough in the next few years. So it's not it's important to. to to see things in perspective what I can do. Is Useful I. Mean again. You know sometimes I'm driving I. I cannot stop and look at the phone, but I can talk to. And in the. Face recognition as pros and cons, but certainly machines can recognize more and more what goes on. In. A in a scene so if Something's I use will, but not I wouldn't get excited the same way. I get excited when I listened to some new, music. Oh see some new paintings. Festival is still a very. What is interesting? Is again the computational math? I mean people keep improving those operates. It's it's very interesting that that machines can achieve. Such high resolution generating images now. so, but those are really thinks that you appreciate as a computational mathematician. Is, so you know the some good things now come into the business. That's also something to put in perspective there. The amount of money you make is bitterly. Compared to that. The Of It, we still talking I the the snow equivalent. Over Walmart in a in the world, the sun is. Why because all these things are free in the Google search engine, which is the number? One application of the I in the world is free. And deep mind makes great software to play Games but What's what's the revenues so I would think perspective and I would say. Intellectual is always interesting to discuss it. In practice. Practice. It's useful, but now let's not get too excited about it. I think some really good points, and we'll probably see more and more case studies on. How it help deal with the pandemic going forward. But again I for listeners to understand, is it true I was a marketing spin being put on it, but that's for another day. And what challenges do you see in? I saw an organization months to adopt a they. They want to explore doing something with it. But what challenges were challenges? You see facing organizations immediately we mentioned. At the start of this was I think one of the biggest challenges is trying to answer the question what is? But other any other challenges that you think organizations face if they want to. Let's say, do something with A. So I've been asked this question in particular up. when when I was suspending the timing China. And China as you probably know a one point. It became a government. Monday the national goal tweet best in the I. And so everybody was frantically trying to figure out how to use AI in my business. Yes, yes. So so the way to approach it of course. Is the other way round. I mean what what you? What is it that you cannot do today? You would like to do, and then we can discuss how we do it. And the tell me what you cannot do today that you would like to do then the next question I have is. Do you have a data set to China machine to do it? Yes, yes, this some fundamental things that you need to have it goes today. Say again is is learning mostly deep learning, and if it doesn't work without the data set, yes, so. Again, Yup when you when you think of applying to get his Asian that you have. To think about practical issues and I'm to stay. I would say that of all the stories I heard in China and the United States about using deep learning there in organizations. About fifty percent. At work. And the other fifty percent or just the larger consulting organizations trying to sell new popular buzzword. Trying to sell it at a very high price. Yes so. Those kind of success rates fifty percent again if you're investing a lot of money. You know it's it's you've got to go and I. Think is wide. You've given us a miracle things to think about before going on that investment in time, money and resources and We see a lot of. Moving into the automation space, and driving that say let's put a label white collar automation. what's happened in the manufacturing? Over the decades and so forth where we've automated jobs with machines, I will should the white collar workers be worried that? is coming to automate their jobs on a should they be worried and be you know, or is it changing? As the world of work. To some extent. I ended this this deep learning that is used. As. Better statistics now statistics did not replace people and actually statistics sometimes replace people. You know not not in a massive a large scale So. Simul. Is just the modern way to do statistics and hopefully is A. Better results. The jobs they can be replaced whether they are blue. White Red, yellow Out The jets, the jobs that are repetitive so I. Keep I keep telling people it's not. About the color of the shirt that you wear at work, yes, it's out of additive is your work? How is it easy? Is it to be cloned by machine? And what has happened over the last twenty thirty forty years? For a number reasons is that we have come up with rules that have to fall in office. And then when you're following. Repetitive pattern because they told that's what you have to do. Well, then the question is only. Is it cheaper? Is your Saturday cheaper, or is it the machine cheater? And then you pick the one because that can be? Done by machine so fantastic job. You're doing so I disagree in general. The white collar jobs can be. Most of them get. Good. Yeah so I, think that the the thing message theorists look at how. Tasks activity is an canopy replaced by machine, or by the way I am potentially it's open for that so identified if you're in one of these roles, figured out and figure out what you need to do to grow beyond. Maybe that roller that task because automation will happen. It's happened in manufacturing significantly as you know, so. It's encroaching now into again. Whatever's to white collar? Whatever type of it is? Whatever type job as you said it doesn't matter? Whatever type of job is looking like automation is now we're looking. Choose to software automation, an AI to deal some repetitive roles we say so educate yourself and trying to move into the next higher value or something like that or it will probably create different jobs. Pero, Pero can ask you the any ethical implications of using a or any risks to society. In the use of AI that's that's the question. You have to ask any technology. Is big ethical questions It's it's. It's interesting that. Of course I had no idea about this virus. but years ago was talking about one effect of automation is that it creates? We now call social distancing. You're. Surrounded by machines in might station like to show the picture of the subway. China was early morning, but still was China. you think Jonah's crowded. And I wasn't the subway in two pictures. I was surrounded by machines now a machine bigots and does a machine. Selling food is a machine salad drinks. It was a machine selling toys than remember then to enter the subway when I have to do is give the ticket machine machine. I go downstairs and machine comes, which is a robot. This in subways trains are robots in a human being there just in case, somebody heavens. Yes, so so so it was completely by machines. And not only that when you board the train when you see you see thousands of people. Are they talking? No, they're like this. Right. So I was talking about the fact. The fact of Acknowledges to create social distancing, which I wasn't calling social distancing then it's it's sort of ironic that the virus comes forces us. Anyway so. Why bring up that example because? That's not we usually think of as ethical. But actually has a huge impact on. Our the highs. And the so. Besides the issues with privacy in with the Phnom Surveillance. Society and song acknowledge all says a Eugene back on our lives and. It's always debatable. What is good? What is bad and of course older people tend to have memory lane. Older people tend to see the negative society and younger people can. Excite, but This soon long discussions to be had about a technology. Some of them are just the you revising. Recycling Old Ideas. McClure on any other great in Kosovo the past. The question is always so who should be in control of these ethical issues and. Delicate. Thing! I, mean you want the government to decide? who was the ethical it using that technology for the government? Tournament, who the corporations corporations are to make money. Yeah, yes. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a it's a tough question. I think many organizations will struggle to get the answer to it, but they should look at understand their tolerance for ethical challenges, and how they relate or how they might deal with those to kind of de risk any exposure or to take on some risk. It but I think that'll be at the moment on an organizational level. And it can be different from different organizations, but ultimately who's defining what these ethical things are as you said. Even that's difficult itself. Piero I, guess critical question on our final word to mid-session will be. Do you think can? Make the world a better place. Oh, yes, i. that's why I got into the beginning. One. Of the early vacation, so they I was in the medical field. And I, I remember those days I was thinking. Why only rich people can that can access? The best. Why. Why can't we have machines to that? Can that I as good as those doctors and anybody in the world could use. And that never happened, unfortunately, that cloning doctor is one of those very very difficult thinks into. Thinking you know. It turns out the doctors use science, but the way they their way. Reasoning is not the logical reasoning, yes. Low Building. It's possible reasoning and it has to take into account so many so anyway, so it never really happen, but that is what we hope to achieve yet. The the the whole idea of automation is sometimes misunderstood. Automation is not just the for corporations to make more money. It's also for ordinary people to have access to tasks that traditionally a very expensive. And the southerly you, some of these smartphone is a good example in also for less than one hundred dollars and. Hundreds of millions over. People have as much from which up twenty years ago. It was unthinkable. You. You go on the Internet if you work for. When I go to the Internet for the first time. It wasn't even called Internet. Only big universities, corporations and governments. That was it. I think even Microsoft wasn't. Mindlessly exist. even some big corporations, were not they? Today everybody. You can find also formation. There was a point in life. You'd think of it. How many people knew could find out what his capital of Kazakhstan? Only money to buy the BRITANNICA INESSA. I mean I. Remember as a child that getting the gift of the encyclopedia was a major. Gift. was thing. I think they. Know that quote today's. Children are the first generation that will never be lost. In general terms because they carry them up with them in basically their foam. Let's just in general terms, so I think that's interesting. Their Journal thing just to finish on the doctor analogy that you were talking about the other big thing. I think that even if the technology did allow. Medical professionals to be cloned and probably that trust element. You know what I trust the doctor over a human doctor. I think that would be another barrier or challenge that organizations might face with whatever the implement an AI. Solutions is always trust factor based on will the customer. Will the end user have trust him that and how they try and build and foster. Sometimes, it's a generational thing. Sometimes! It's a sale thing. Sometimes it somewhere in the middle like that, so think interesting times ahead. That's that's not a fascinating topic. That we've seen in many many areas I can prove you mathematically. The machine would make fewer mistakes than human being. May Still Trust the human being better, and you cannot explain it rationally now. Yes, and one favorite example is is the on. We go hiking in the forest, and sometimes we think there's a bear and there is no bear. Now, the machine not make that mistake, but I think you will trust me better than that machine precisely because I made that mistake. Some Somali tells you. I. Yes yes. But but We have to be. Berry Happy that is beginning to provide a better useful information. years. I was talking about my Dream I. I, visited Phillips Big Company that does imaging medical imaging and they told me they have hundreds of millions of medical images that the doctors to for whatever reason they'd be sitting there. One doctor saw it. And, so he made a heavy in the I this canceled its medical images. And finds out that there's something wrong. Ask event. They could prevent millions of diseases. Guess what it's happened so in the last few years has been so many systems introduced. They can look at your skin and tell you that probability that that sunspot will develop into skin cancer. They can look at. Your heart, your brain, you know the oldest medical images actually can be processed, so what I want is a cloud where we have these images, and then we have some A. Bolts that don't stop based on the latest scientific evidence scan. non-stop non-stop your image of course US privacy. Just said they are and you know there's a new scientific theory that little dot means something hang you get. Notified on your phone all talk to your doctor about this thing. That will save your life so. Our heavy. Yeah I think that's a good A. Story to end on there I think it's really good. Think about in terms of that good for humanity from ai the health implications and getting that type of results straight your phone, you can seek the intervention that you do need at the end of the day at fantastic and I guess few point of. Piero scruffy. Thank you so much for joining us on today's CCC, talks. Thank you very much. Thank you for the very interesting questions. You too. Thank you for joining this episode of CCC talks. We hope you enjoyed this episode and walk away with a ton of actionable insights. If this is your first time joining us this US extending a personal invitation to you to join other it and business professionals, so please subscribe on Itunes, youtube or Google play. If you're struggling in any capacity in in your digital transformation journey contact, we'd be more than happy to guide you and find you. The right certification courses to help you manage the challenges. Modern businesses are facing. This was CCC talks until next time.

AI US Silicon Valley Piero China CCC Hollywood Piero scruffy Europe scientist Google artificial intelligence center Intel Stanford Piero I Stanford Italy
The Road to Mass Adoption of Blockchain

CCC Talks

44:42 min | 10 months ago

The Road to Mass Adoption of Blockchain

"Welcome to CCC talks empowering it and business professionals in their digital transformation journey find all the latest tips, tricks and strategies at our blog and resource center at cloud, credential, Dot Org and our host CCC Managing Director Marco Laughlin Hello. Everybody and welcome to another edition of CCC talks with Markle offline and the cloud credential council. Really excited today we're joined by John. Devas President and head of development at Neil blockchain John Thank you so much for joining us on today's podcast. Hello, mark thank you very much. It is my privilege to be to be here with you so I. Really appreciate you making time for me, thank you, thanks now. You've a very very career like most people we have on these sessions today. Architect General Manager of digital at Microsoft is very interested in the next bit in brackets, including building parts of Azure will come back. Charlie I go founder of machine learning company amongst others now if that's not enough where to get the time on a PhD in machine, learning John, tell us a little bit about yourself. Or. Thank you, thank you. You're going so I think these were very is a is a euphemism is so you're GonNa? Miss him somebody who got quite focused on one thing for too long. With that's that. Somebody my interest light in be platform space Much of my professional could yet. In the platform. Across of an idea of industry, so certainly machine learning in a more recently in the blockchain platform and stacked space earlier on. With Microsoft I spent many many years, a architects working on the early dot net platforms to be one we to, and as you mentioned the spent time working on Azure long before it was called Azure it was called the right dog at that was the codename at that time. And and be some folks grower that in some folks might not, but Yeah Red Dog. It was at that time many many years ago, but thank you. That's great I was. Involved with a company way way back. When is your Beta was released? Them at the time, and looking at it and I was you know? looking at how what developed into the same? The other cloud providers start off with a certain core of services, but then. Over time COZMA requirements. How'd evolves on? It just keeps evolving so great to say in the cloud space. We've lots of different players in there. We've got some of the big chair. Wounds lots of medium tears. Not everybody involved in just infrastructure. We've got a platform on Saas and all this. We're GONNA talk about. One of these types of platforms down a moment I wanted to just abandon his session talking about blockchain, so you're involved in a company Doing a lot with blockchain Thank you money years of this. a wanted to not ask you much about what is blockchain if other people cover that but. Poses question say what you think you'll blockchain is all things Crypto, and ledger, so people don't understand a little bit about blockchain from a rotor episodes will now understand what words crypto will man, but is blockchain that simple is it just a bit of Crypto Little Bit Alleger blockchain? That's all it is our. What what what else is on the road? So it's can be I. Mean I think it's a very very insightful question mark absolutely, if you look at it as kind of the in the Yang or the two sides of the coin, one side is the crypto and many of us as consumers. Certainly see the crypto perspective the other side of it. You know as a technologist a as the Geek as a developer. You See the ledger side, which is if you will the the platform aspects of the stack the new substrate. If you will, but I think the magic mark really is how to come together, you know if we only see one side at best we see you know what Hasta value for me. The magic and this is what I still believe. Much of the commercial industry. The Enterprise Space for instance is still grappling to come to terms is because they only see one side. They see the substrate. They see the Blood Fox, but it is the economic platform. More blockchain is the very first economic platform in history. And if we can do that, then we will see why. This is such a significant shift with respect with technology platforms. Quit I'M GONNA get to the economic partner moment of very interested in your views on that, but before we go there. Anytime. You talk with these technologies. We generally ask expert. Typical question like this to help our listeners. What what does a good working definition to use in describing what blockchain is from your perspective? So I would say a good working definition would be a decentralized platform. To enable this next generation of applications, one key shift, which is, we have economic incentives baked into the platform. No other platform in history has economic incentives baked into the platform. And so I would say to summarize the first economic platform would be a good way if you WanNa pithy phrase for think about the blockchain world. Letting you kind of view? We've had a blockchain which is good, and that's why we've asked you on because you talk a lot about this. Being Economic Platform Baked in. A very interested in getting to know a little bit more about that for our listeners, so leads me onto 'em. I've seen his talk a lot I've heard a lot. It's really good stuff you talk about blockchain Chinese donate today as a platform for having an economic model built in and baked in and being the extra bit. Can expand for what is economic model. What is it? What does it do? How does it benefit them? So. Let's go back game to the the commercial world the. Let's look at the Enterprise World Right, which you're very familiar, and certainly I am having spent many years, right? Let's look at a typical enterprise scenario knowing enterprise lives alone. New Enterprise is an island that is always a collection of entities who worked together in some fashion. This partnerships this collaboration is consortium today much of the ads, the infrastructure that powers this mark is running on centralized block forms like the cloud. For example, the cloud was obviously has as transformed. Truly disrupted if you will in a the road as we know it as we see it, however, it is very much a centralized platform if you will, but the key here is this when you have collaboration when you have partnership when you have multiple commercial entities working together, that is always incentives, incentives, and the flipside penalties incentives when they deliver all in terms of raising the ball of performance and penalties, when there is obviously a failure, but otherwise a degradation of quality with respect to ability. In today's world, these incentives have to be extrinsic LII added in as an overlay as an adjunct as an accessory. And what makes the blockchain plot foam unique? Which is why I called this? The first economic platform is because we have the crypto economic protocols baked inside. The incentives are intrinsic they in that. And so that is nothing we have to do. That is an abject art, an accessory or an extrinsic or an add on to ensure so to make it concrete. Let's take an example in I live. In Seattle, and Seattle is the home of fluffy largest coffee companies in the world. You Look at the coffee bean right. The coffee bean comes from Tanzania from Columbia from SEO PIA and eventually makes way. You know as coffee up yet in Seattle. So you look at this this network that I'll provide us consumers that are distributors. That are the small farmers and everybody participates in this network because they see a benefit to them. And this benefit is obviously built on a model of incentives in today's world. These incentives again you know out extrinsic they added on. I'm sure your listeners are very familiar with the word governance governance is that is a much used much of. Truck Right. Okay I I. Don't want to go too far down dead rats all but but governance. Mark, how many millions and tens of millions or even billions of dollars have we spent on governance over the last five seven ten years tremendous amount of money. Why because governance is critical? Is Critical for the functioning enterprise for the functioning consortium, but governance is expensive. It is editor prone because we add this on. No, we hire expensive consultants. We reinvested Wilson. Vendors will promise you know this silver bullet in terms of aligning it and business, and so on why, because the stacks we are working off of do not expose an intrinsic economic substrate with a blockchain platform, because it is built on a foundation of economic protocols, the incentives are there like that. We have to turn the switches on, and so you think about not just the cost saving. The amount of money that's gone into governance and compliance, but you look at the site the potential to transform. To truly change how we reward. And say worsen incentives, but the flipside is obviously penalties as well. How you the joke right that the contributions are obviously in compensate that or not. There is that element of? Had you ensure some key thing I just said? So, many organizations are doing. That's a governance, but deke were to use less bolted on towards the end, which never works as the auditing of a supply chain end to end, or the parts get audits by different organizations at different times very expensive huge overhead. It's driven an industry itself. The auditing industry. That I, send in the consultants there. We know They charge a lot. But. What are they trying to achieve I think if you get in the helicopter and fly open? Think what does all this doing? It comes back to trust in the ecosystem. Are People doing what they're meant to do to do and contracts? Where they delivered, they get rewarded where they don't get penalized. Thus the way the world I come across the coffee being example in blockchain about two years ago, it was at a conference. I saw a tech conference and in the corner. Coffee Bean stand wasn't selling coffee it was. There saying we're coffee company at driven entirety by Tech. Tell me your story. and. They said from being to cope. They can trace all their supply chain. They're doing it for an ethical reason all the way through not farmer to make sure he gets paid to get whatever dollars per sack of beans into the next stage of the cycle into the next stage. The all the way along all of this is recorded reported. He gets paid automatically. It moves to the next stage. The auditing is in built. They didn't have to build an auditing system. They switched on the levers. They wanted to use like what you've said I'm from. Up they can show their entire supply chain. They showed online to say. This is how transparent this is. What we paid farmers base This is the going rate. This is what we pay. This is what we get. This is what happened. This company said they'd deliver delivered. Why get closer minus all the way back and they said it's. Does it. Help them sell a cup of coffee, yes or no. What it helps them is again they say, are we in the business of selling coffee or we in the business of giving somebody experience of a nice beverage, and whatever that is, if you're in a starbucks tennis surroundings. They say we want to amplify. The brand of the company rather than anything else using blockchain and I asked about cost. He's all this a lot cheaper than the auditing system. We had before because it's use your word was baked in. So I think that's a really really good. A really good example and I think he said there's an economic model in there now is not just about using block China's technology. It's about what do you get out of this economic model slightly again? It's not about using cloud for the sake of using cloud. It's about using cloud to get. I would not say cost savings on cloud because that's been proven. You generally don't if you're looking for. Jilani speed ability to scale ability to down size on ramp up and all this kind of stuff, so they get value from using clouds, not it should be about the monetary cost savings. I think we're blockchain now, really good example of the economic model that's built in. So. Of Organizations using blockchain's spoke about. Say The coffee bean to cope. Are there any other examples you're coming across, or you're involved in even where blockchain is going to change or do something really really radical. Oh, absolutely absurd! The way I would say this is the any industry today that is not in some fashion or the other looking at all using blockchain technology whether it'd be the legal industry in terms of contracts. Answered leveraging smart contracts or the the healthcare currently as we are going through this virus situation into him so drugs and Pharma, and being able to audit in verify in know the lineage, obviously the drug industry all the way to the sources off the food industry himself, looking at and being able to somehow guarantee the source again that the trace the lineage of way. It's making its way through. Supply chain as we as we discussed. Global. Trade Finance that finance is being significantly selected by a by the world of blockchain capabilities of both within and across national. Boundaries and borders. Side would say you know you look at the space. That is not any one more and here's. Why by the way this way and I'll give you an example today. Let's not name a cloud provider, but let's to speak anybody in anybody in the Seattle of. Yeah, so? The bill right when you have multiple parties working together, and that is an application on an infrastructure set of capabilities that are still only one bill. Bill is sent by the Vendor to one entity as twenty twenty. Like the fact that we still billing one entity is to me. Manifestation of still the progress. We have to make so when this multi-party for me. Another way to think about Russia and mark is this is the stack for a multi party transactions. In Italy, but so any place where there are multiple parties transacting. Is A place to exploit to use the blockchain capabilities so for me in real question. Absolutely, there's not one industry, not one vertical, not one sector that is not at this point working with. Somehow using the blockchain capability public. Sector private sector collaboration. And last, but not least I mean you look at the the economic forces right central banks. Very much in the news today. For good reasons, and and not so good reason. I don't WanNa see the Fed in the news, but they are in the news. Every every major central bank across the world at this point mark is looking at using blockchain ability as they are digitizing their on currency, so I would say at this point, it is pervasive. Industry there is not looking at blockchain technology They will, they will regret it. Absolutely I think GAM. Got Onto the next question that I think do organizations actually understand what blockchain is potential what it can do or is that one of the challenges we have at the moments in the kind of thinking a little bit different are looking and saying well, we're. We should be able to apply this. You said that they're multi contract. multiplayer environments should just use blockchain because it gives that transparency between all those transactions. I can tell you a lot of organizations in those environments. I aren't even thinking about blockchain. Walk to do it, so you know going back to the question. Do you think organizations in general understand blockchain to that level or have the yet to get to that level of understanding? So I. would say some do more. Some do but I still think the majority do not in. Here's what this white. I very simple a reason for this. You know as an it guy, you know for me. I grew up with the storm of re platforming. And some so what this means is, we have obligations and each time. That is a new platform we talk about replied forming. Unfortunately, but history of computing going back. You know forty fifty years. There was no economic. Reap Lot for me. It was always infrastructure platforming. So what this means this? The early adopters still see the blockchain stack as yet another re platforming. And so. Thinking about the technology capabilities, but most of us yet. To come to terms would be economic incentives again. Why because as it people you know? We don't think about incentives on a daily or even a weekly basis. We leave it to somebody else. And unless and until we think about the incentives and being sensitive model. I called this market. Enterprise Architecture is walked about thirty five years old forty years old back in John Sackman. Mark, we need a new enterprise economic architecture. and onto every enterprise has an enterprise economic architecture. They will not fully allies. The benefits of blockchain capabilities Cynthia question. yes, there's a minority out there but many. A yet to come to terms to realize the attention of the economic stack. Save, so that's an economic enterprise architecture. I think that's fantastic I know you're saying that I'm absolutely tie them with again. It function and organization should be living value, not tech. It's not about the tech anymore. We've moved away from it as a technology provider. It. Whatever whatever whatever has been in the past, it's about getting the value and delivering on helping the business. What did she wants to do or chief things? It doesn't even know it wants to do at the moment and taking care of technology side, but translating technology and buy into the business. Because of business won't be able to do that. The that's not their job. To Me Blockchain Cloud Iot, all these new newer digital technologies. Give a great opportunity to the IT function in any organization to look at it, not talk to the business about technology talk about value solutions, things of working with the business to come up with ideas, not that it has come up with the answer or the business, but collectively let's take the example of Coffee Bean on how we can that to our organization, we'll take care of how we pull the levers in the blockchain from technological side, but the common goal we want that goal and vision has to be business-orientated. Absolutely. See Far, too many companies looking at blockchain, saying hey, what will we do blockchain? What can we do and about three or six months later after the whiteboard sessions go? We don't know we'll move onto iot next week and see what we can do. There I think that's the wrong way to look at it. Absolutely, absolutely, no, you don't. I mean it's the outcomes business outcomes. It needs to be obsessive business outcomes and until. We get that we're GONNA. See Technology as another tool in the toolbox, and we will will struggle with it by the way mark I'm working on a book on Enterprise Economic Architecture so. You'll. You'll have my first copy when I'm done with. Fantastic, Oh, well love I lo-. Free copies of anything so send the way to tell us more about that I'll talk again about it when you're doing a release, let's get you back. I want to drill into that book. I want to look at it and say let's. We'll have you back Sean and we'll talk a bit more about that. You said something. There is important you said you know. I would have said a lot of people I talked to say. It should be focused on business outcomes. You've ratchet the open. Not she said I'd, she'll be obsessed, but with business outcomes I live out, I'm changing how I talk to people now I 'cause. I understand it's not about focus. It's about the obsession of it. I think that's where we have to be I. think especially in today's. We're in challenging times at the moment. Is Global crisis going on? People might be looking at this saying or organization saying look, we're in survival mode walking blockchain, I conduct project. We want something else however. Maybe. There's an opportunity for people to sink Lokeren crisis mode. We need to get eighty percent of the company looking out survival, but survival won't keep us going into the new world maybe. Carve out some people looking at this type of technology as to how come he used this to fix some of the challenges we had in the past. Do something new and adopted a new world coming on? We don't know what it is, but we certainly cannot bring the legacy. Say Auditing, and all that other stuff that we've done in the past. Into this new world. We don't have the time people money resources. It's going to be difficult, so maybe things like blockchain give companies a chance to speed up what they can achieve with it. Absolutely so I would say two things and I think you make a very very relevant point mark two things. You're right in in times like this in a it can certainly be easy to go back and say look I'm going to just shut down and and and focus on what I can and I'm going to know. This is going to be a Wuss me, but it is those companies who look to tomorrow and the day after NC the potential. As human beings, you know we always. We encounter challenges, but we take out of them. We move forward and it's going to be. It is will be successful tomato the day after the second thing I wanted to make yourself. I think if there's one thing I know, it is the the fragile nature of the supply chain that is so obvious to many of us including consumers right, and we can say look. We will not use the supply chain, but that would be i. think in some sense almost like cutting off your nose. To spite your right the he's going to be. How do we? Know as talent would save. Make this anti fragile. House, do we make this robust? How do we and it's about trust challenges facing US Trust? That has one platform one stack that can help us. Rethink reimagined and rebuild the supply chain from a place of trust, so we did not have this fragile niche once again down the line I firmly believe it's going to be built on a foundation of blockchain capabilities. I can say that I'll come back on the trust in a moment to have A. A question for you on that, but regarding supply chain I mean it's so evident now. Global crisis at airplanes are grounded. Factories are closed to make t shirts. It's amazing how much cotton gets flown halfway around the world and back again before it gets turned into a garment that's flown back around the world that the supply chains globalization has built up this. Massive global supply chain, but it seems Kinda ground to a halt on get I'm wondering a as well for companies in these in these supply chain situations wh- blockchain can pose to set up the new supply chain of what will be tomorrow now. Typically take, or you know an industry five ten fifteen years to use technology like blockchain to do that. I think this global crisis has accelerated organizations use of tech by five to ten years. We've been pulled into the future by about ten years, so it's a case of not thinking and sitting around, and should we used this I. Think for a Lotta companies survival it will be. We've got use this. We've got to do things quicker smarter better than before as you said transparency economic model in blockchain. We've got things like I'm not that can do wonderful things and health for seeing that house look after thousands and thousands, tens of thousands of people outside of the hospital and the surgery environments using Iot. But we wouldn't have been able to do that in the past because of trust. But now out of necessity. If you can't go to your doctor and your ill, but you can put these sensors on her. They can monitor you. They can say okay. You're doing fine, but this patient somewhere else isn't so we'll give them focus, and then you recover. That's great. You don't recover. Get worse, you get looked at so I think it's pulled us into and I think organizations need to realize the technology is always ahead of where we are in business on his people and we're doing. Catch up and remember last question. What is blockchain? Most companies count out answer that, but we have now have ridden situation where we have the technologies of the future today. And companies and the situation Ju to global crisis has pulled as ten years into the future. In an instant so doing things that we did it yesterday I. Don't think is going to get us where we need to be tomorrow. And I think technologies here is is good. Can I ask him. At the moment, what advice would you give to companies to get that competitive advantage or trying to retool how they do things? What did they focus on one or two one or two things? They should focus on today when you consider blockchain. Great question requesting, so say two things firstly again in know thinking about the architecture, and certainly what I call the enterprise economic architecture incentives, incentives rewards, obviously an Altis to be able to have some way that you can bake descent because the black gives it to you. the second thing you made a very lenny relevant point mark about the unique spoke about the health care, industry and trust and rebuilding trust for me. As an individual as a citizen as a human, being the flip side of this privacy. I think it's very clear to us. especially in this particular in face, we are going through. The privacy of the individual is pat amount. Say for companies looking at the blockchain stack. A. Please do not forget that. This is a platform of trust. It's also a platform built on privacy on the rights of the individual. And we have disability to not again have to you know. Go through and reinvent the week. In a we have this baked in again. Intrinsically in that in the state in as we built I want to emphasize, this could be for you as a commercial entity a competitive advantage. It could be a competitive advantage right to to to to promise to deliver to your customers and your consumers. I think that's important. Yes, we probably ten forget the privacy piece or think thought bid is baked in an element of privacy is baked in, but as any organization you are responsible and accountable at the end of the day for the privacy security of your customers information, you ever really outsource stops, but certainly there are parts of blockchain. are still to help with that, but certainly I think I've got to look at that spurgeon bank anything supply chain. Absolutely you've gotta look at. Another part of blockchain say the cloud is built on or something like that. You have to go through. That goes back to your architecture as well as well as this this this few. Now have question here Kinda based on trust so blockchain is very interesting in that you said is built on providing trust and transparency. We know that's what it's all about, but ironically can blockchain actually be trusted. That's the question so insofar as we trust the math and the algorithms that we can across the LoC chain architecture, hundred one caveat. You know not every chain is is alike by that are different architectures. Models of consensus for examples I would say you know. Yes, we trust the math, or at least we want to trust the math, but centrally examine instance the protocols consensus ensure. It meets, and certainly exceeds your needs with respect to a gain the degrees of trust and the layers of privacy. You want to build in of course in know, these are open source, says stacks for example NEO MIT license on get upset Lee, the sources out debt, but the good good point. You make very good point again. You know you know I think as a very famous prisons on, said you trust, but verify so certainly ensure. That your team. That you're technologist and economists are able to verify that stack that it meets your needs like we wanna be particularly particularly careful, because this is about trust, it is by privacy of the individual and delivering on that promise so absolutely. I think it tells the story of the evolution of it and technology were we're now at stage where organizations do not need to build clouds and blockchain and all these IOT. They're already there. So as not function, we no longer have to Kinda Bill. The systems. We now have to use them so the focus last. Night at a huge amount of technical skill, required architect and integrate all of these it things but. We're not having to build them. We're having to use them I. don't understand how to use them with the business. So as you said, we're no longer thinking about the the source code of a blockchain, because they said it's, it's developed by open source organization whatever that is, but it's what we're going to use it for data security privacy, the business model the economic model, all those Kinda things, the business continent standoff MMA technical point of view and the technical folk need to business to understand the market, so it's really seen the convergence of the business. I'm not. Like, we've never seen before. The unfortunately, a lot of organizations still have the IT function silo away from the business, and they don't talk. They don't get on. They don't understand I think that's going to collapse very quickly and I think it during this crisis time. We're going to see an amazing. AH GUESS COLLABORATION OR. Joining of it and the business like we've never seen before because we're just going to have to do that. We don't have to build attack anymore. We just have to get it use it. Line at the business I go try that. If it doesn't work, we don't get penalized. It's we go. Do something else so this fail fail fast thing as well rather than penalize it for not getting it right on taking dollars, or whatever that is so I think. That comes into this again. You're looking at trust and transparency, not the source code of a Blockchain, but equally there are different types of chains out there as you said different founders different colds. It does different things, so you really have to understand. What type of Blockchain do you want? For the environment you're going to use. Quick quick other mark your summary. There was brilliant one of the best. Somebody's I've heard. You know the way you talked about aligning at and business rights, because let's be many candidate in how many billions maybe tens of billions maybe hundreds of billions have been spent on this Buzzword, aligning and business. Has It being such a challenge because you have two roles, and we are extrinsic, really trying to bring them together, and what makes this particular stack unique? The first economic stack is because intrinsically. Have the ability for the first time in the history of computing to drive that alignment insight, and that's what for League. The executive. Aligning ID and business not. Stories! You have some time so. This large shipping company and we shall not name. They know which will protect the guilty. So fast. So they were. They designed this the system using blockchain technologies. To basically track containers all the way through from in the schedule in Japan to talk to Seattle. And, so we know a role, the application out in what happened. We had these people out in the frontlines so they used to using excel spreadsheets to store the data, the numbers the logging the APP was rolled out there nobody cares. And and so on Friday morning the interim came in, and he was tasked with copying the data from the excel spreadsheet of the APP. Those like you go. Like, and this is the challenge of aligning it in business. You know back in the day. If you remember history rolling out for example, share point, we would roll out share point. Please use it. Use The new version is better. It is it is it is productive it you know this more privacy ability, and then eventually eventually you know people use it. The difference he has this in this case for the shipping for the shipping company. Because we had the incentive model built-in. The company could track. Every day every week and see in terms of the data entry validation. And what happened Friday warning nine to twelve zero spike because those when the Internet came in and. Yet got the rhythm. All there. To make lots short. Being able to seek to manifest these incentives and then be able to go and say look. This is not how it was supposed to have been used right. What is five years ago three years ago? To say, look you know. Hey, that's that's the way it is meant expensive consultant, and let's hope they can fix this governance issue, but now it's different. Absolutely nast different. I think we've been pulled into a new world of different by five ten years. So what got us here? Today doesn't get a stair tomorrow. And that type of thing you said the old days of bringing into consultant, putting out new sheriff, whatever that was I've seen so many of them, and as you said people go so what? I'm good to go back to the old way revenge, the money get automated, but then it doesn't get a key. Technology for the sake of technology. So it's good. I think good block China's to understand why not so much while you won't use it, but what it does. Go find some good use cases. I love to coffee bean from from. You know being to cope. Apply that to any business and say from there to there and then look at what they're doing. What they're transacting auditing. What they're you know credentialing along the way what choice them transparency is doing now. Take that thinking into your business. And then go find your being to Cope I. think that's that's a good a good good plants. Don't waste from. Thanks. So kind to me there by five books when the route you've been so kind. I'll return. So John We. We're GONNA finish already, but I have a couple of quick fire questions so again. We'll just how we get on here. Question one is blockchain over height. Do you think? I think we tend to everything. and. Yes it essentially otherwise I would be lying to you, it is. And it is a blockchain going to change the world. Absolutely absolutely in ways we can't even fathom at this point and again for me. Privacy more privacy as it becomes more and more battle in our lives, we will see blockchain transform every facet of life as we know it. I I believe that too I think it will take years to come around, but in whatever amounts of times that is, we're going to look back and say Oh my God I never thought it. Would you be used here here here here, but you can apply that to a lot of technologies. We have today if you look back in history. Why never thought we could use that that here here and here? If you apply to the global crisis, that's happening now and how vent of people are getting to help get medical equipment and protective gear You would think I would never thought using technology to create a lot to do that or do that so. Hindsight is wonderful, but we've trying to. figure out you know never waste a crisis, people say. Maybe, if organizations don't waste your crisis hair, look for those opportunities while trying to survive. We have to do that as well we didn't go to bed time. Bitcoin blockchain get mentioned quite a lot so bitcoin is a game changer, yes, or no or what it represents. Absolutely absolutely, and and we can only watch the central banks to know how much of a game changer bitcoin has already. I think. especially the last eight weeks I've not I tend to not a lot of it, but I've not used any cash I have not been able to go out anywhere to spend in our. Get it but I am I here. Lots of reports about now people even saying women go back to whatever the new normal is, they won't be handling cash of the fear can carry germs and things it will be top top that will evolve into, I think what you're suggesting there. CRYPTO currencies from central banks and I think we're going to see dot accelerated as well. They're going to have to think about it quicker better sooner. Because that's the way it's going and Bitcon shows con work. Look like what cash she can have money laundering it can have an abuse of the caste system can happen in the Bitcoin, but is probably a bit more transparency and the needs to be a bit more protocols built in, but I think that's that's the way. I guess am. I think we've mentioned before, but final question you know the current global emergency that's going on. Is it going to change companies view news blockchain. I think we've covered that. You think it's it's a solid I think will overall thoroughly more absolutely I mean like we said in terms of trust, right, what is lacking in the supply chain so I just and being able to address trust. And on the flip side you know being able to provide and guarantee privacy to the individual to the consumer to the citizen. This balancing act I think places blockchain uniquely in terms of what we are as the IT industry absolute. Balancing Act. Transparency Governance and also you just related that now to the citizens. Of the world as well would you think is a great? We're GONNA finish, but before we do have you any final words on how digital technologies such as cloud Iot, big data blockchain are relevant for the time to find yourself in now. Oh certainly a Muslim mark. I mean as a as a technology that the guy who loves technology absolutely. I think we. I I believe this I. Think we are living in one of the. Most interesting times ever in history in terms of what we could do what we can do for people for the man in the street and we'll be could do for our fighting, so I see obviously cloud. We've seen the last five seven ten years IOT devices. And certainly for me as a as a blockchain proponent, the potential to build the next wave of capabilities to enable us to live. As human beings to enable us to live as as communities as societies, and certainly as as the global world. for me this. We haven't seen the best yet, and this is nothing in the next three five seven ten years i. mean you know we should have another talk maybe in office to be willing, we will talk. of IC. The next couple of years and I see enormous potential tremendous energy for what it is that we will do in as individuals and as commercial entities, and for me having this first economic stack in the history. Is the basic building block of almost everything we will do. And, so you can see how. This. Yes, it's a strange time with living, but I think will come out we always do we believe in the potential of our future we always do. We always do and again I think the challenge is what is the new norm, but again that's the challenge we have to embrace. Think as I said. These technology it was good. You related the technologies to business on citizens and people, because it's going enhance our lives as well to solution set organizations come up with for our betterment and I think we. We've yet to see imagine what a lot of this is, but certainly we've been accelerated or ten years. It's like doctor WHO's time machine. We've been accelerated into the into the future after. Wall Sam. John M I? WanNa finish up I'm. GonNa put in five order fear book, and we'll get you back on to talk about that when it comes out and making children finishing John daffodils. Thank you so much for joining us on. Today's ceases. He talks. Thank you. Thank, you thank you. Thank you for joining this episode of CCC Talks We hope you enjoyed this episode and walk away with a ton of actionable insights. If this is your first time joining us, this is US extending a personal invitation to you to join other it and business professionals, so please subscribe on Itunes. Youtube or Google play. If you are struggling in any capacity in your digital transformation journey. Contact us. We'd be more than happy to guide you and find you. The right certification courses to help you manage the challenges. Modern businesses are facing. This was CCC talks until next time.

blockchain Seattle blockchain CCC iot John US Mark Microsoft Enterprise Economic Architectu John We consultant Charlie I cloud President Architect General Manager developer partner
The Power and Promise of AI

CCC Talks

37:06 min | 1 year ago

The Power and Promise of AI

"Welcome to CCC talks empowering it and business professionals in their digital transformation journey. Find all the latest tips tricks and strategies at our blog and resource center at cloud credential dot Org and our host. Ccc Managing Director Marco Laughlin. Hello everybody and welcome to another edition of CCC talks with Markle up on the cloud credential council. Now today we're joined by Daniel for Gela is the founder and head of research at emerged. I'm Don thank you very much for joining us on. Today's podcast. Glad to be here market so much on your company. Emerge is focused on research in the field of artificial intelligence So maybe to tell us a little bit about what you do on what emerges all about Suri. Yeah I'll give you the very fast version here so our work focuses on really the Aurelie of AI in major sectors so we track the startup ecosystem. We try to know use cases and we categorize what is enabling within those industries. And sort of where? We're seeing a return on investment so Visual Map irs are alive for leaders of companies that a Serb don't want to allocate their funds without knowing the landscape. I I got a good proposition. Especially the visualization of an Aurelie. Also the new thing but I think companies should do more of that abbey rather than just pure numbers of it may be looking at it from. I'm sure looking at it from different aspects for sure. Yeah I mean For some people ease of deployment for example is a paramount import. Because they don't have that much internal data science talent for example for other people. They really have an emphasis on building a particular capability. Like let's say computer vision. They WANNA be able to identify things with images. It's an e commerce business or retail business and they might particularly want to screen for that so criteria will vary but I think companies do it. Well you assess where they WANNA put funds companies. That don't just you know. Waste a little money on a pilot here on a pilot there and then they'll they'll learn the hard way that they should have some some strategy so that's kind of where we had good. I've learned to light as a hard way to do things at an easy way to do things find the people that can help you do the easy way and the answer. But I think what you're saying is your focus on the value from AOL. Ai Tune Organization and trying to understand that before doing ai for the sake of doing it. Is that what you're about? Yeah so some companies have been honest with us About checking the box in other words. Oh we did a pilot project because we you know. Our competitors did press releases about pilot projects and we wanted to do one as well. I'm there's obviously a lot of danger there. Germs of of wasting money so on most leaders we work with a lot of heads innovation heads of strategy. They don't quite know what they don't know they don't know the totality of what they could invest in and sort of. Where is the low hanging fruit and a lot of time for Big Orix? They want wins. They want relatively quick wins on with. It's not always easy. But they have to see the landscape to do it so yeah better than better than hurling money into random directions or like you said. I'm doing it for the sake of doing a savior's now we're going to start with him. Simple question very simple in terms. I'm GONNA ask you. What is artificial intelligence will? What is a yeah so you had said before we started recording here? Mark that You'll get ten different answers when you ask ten times and I speak fulltime with a researchers and heads of AI at big companies. I probably get different answers from them as well so to some degree even the folks that know. The space are bickering. Lot about Specifically where AI fits in compared to machine learning etc. Broadly speaking a I is a computer doing something that otherwise people would do. This is the big umbrella artificial intelligence that goes all the way to really complicated natural language generation stuff for You know that kind of models a human conversation which were kind of borderline cutting edge big companies like Google all the way down to relatively boring stuff like detecting fraud for a credit card company or a potential even more limited applications. They're so big umbrella. It's a big umbrella they can. I think automating still for the computer that humans use to do. We'll talk a little bit more. Besse AMBASSAD industries a fan. You know as you said even if it's just credit card fraud or insurance fraud and I could have taken a lot of people hours to try and figure out. Where may I system might do that? Quicker faster better can ask 'em again in broad terms. Why should we be excited about? Ai Buffoon from two views one from the organization perspective on one from a consumer perspective. I'd be excited. I think that So from an organization perspective I think Excitement can come from. You know the potential to win in the market. I think there's excitement. There's fear there's a lot of motives for organizations it's just about being able to stay relevant so for particular for very large companies on have already budgets Who are kind of enterprise level The winners and losers of the next ten years and a lot of space is heavy industry financial services etc have to involve some capabilities unlocked in some ability to have moved fluently with these new capabilities. They emerged so being excited about that. Means being cited about staying ahead of the market as a consumer and ultimately again. We're more on the business side for our work but as a consumer. I think we almost might see it as the next level of the next layer of convenience like the Internet was know I I used to. I don't have to go to blockbuster. Renna video now have net flex is kind of an Internet serve convenience level and kind of layer on top of any given service whether it be food or entertainment or connecting with friends. Or what have you? I think I will be potentially another layer of that certainly in consumer tech. That's moving quickly you know. Syria was out well before those kinds of applications were available to be and I think that consumers actually going to be the fast moving area. But it's mostly it's convenience on for for your average kind of person on the street. Absolutely on he said interesting thing though blockbuster being the the US DVD video rental store which along exists. So I think I think we're saying the likes of these digital technologies a helping organizations change our business model the way they do business and how they do business because it allows people to consume things differently as well so I think it's a great opportunity for organizations to do something new but there's also the danger that is they don't do something new that some competitors might do that so it's not a challenge facing. Yeah it is. I think it's most relevant for the larger organization so in a space like banking where we do a lot of work insurance wealth needed. It's kind of like global top one hundred companies so if you are a mid size random bank in the Mid West. You sort of. Don't have to direly stay ahead of ai because you don't have the budgets you don't have the RND and the technology so nascent it's GonNa be tough to get it off the ground with a lot of that that are indeed but for the folks who are in the top one hundred when JP Morgan and Wells Fargo and the other players Start to get that edge in customer experience. Start to get that Agean in You know how easily they can onboard people or how well they can calibrate their loans and lending for example you're competing with the biggest right now essentially across sectors on matters survivability wise people realize that added and that's a lot of impetus to get started is actually less the excitement more the nervousness nervous. I think that goes back to your opening. You know what you're saying about understanding the Ohio. I'm the value from a now. Everybody is going to get value today as you said. Those mid Westerner Midstate by they could put a lot of money into see no return for years because they're not under threat from these other industries in other areas. Yeah I mean it's also just. That is very hard so to do I quote unquote This is very choppy language to say do but to essentially enable a in the enterprise that is to say we're going to train our own algorithms to achieve a unique goal on if we want to do that we need data scientists. We need a lot of data. That's organized we need the ability to fail because a lot of the time even with great data and smart people there may just be an application. That doesn't work as it turns out. This data doesn't correlate to fraud. Sorry that was nine months in a lot of money like okay you know not the end of the world but that's the nature of Ai. So the stomach for that. Kind of risk of non are alive on the required budgets. Data in expertise just aren't at these companies so it's it's not just that they don't compete directly with J. P. Morgan. That's part of it. But it's also like they couldn't enable the technology will have to evolve in move down market to become more push button. At which point it will really be doing. Ai They'll essentially be leveraging data mostly trained on other people's information about IB software to point it out right. We'll move into the next era. We're not there on right now. So the highest that big players. Yes I ended up going to be a very interesting space when we're almost consuming else's AI. Or the learning that they've created a now clear is in if you're the leader in the industry let's say banking you used a You've got to return but you now have this super knowledge or source that you can then salad. Maybe spin off as a service to thanking industry. That to me is very interesting. Yeah it's it's interesting to see where and if that will happen so let me paint a picture for you of kind of how it could happen but places where I actually don't think it'll happen so you bring up a great point and I think not enough people frankly are asking about how. Ai will evolve. We have to think about that a lot. Because companies we work with are planning you know five ten years out they at least want some vision there so to your point you say. What is it like to use other people's data while you use net flicks right now? I presume or use facebook and I don't have a Netflix account. But people I know have Netflix. And that's essentially being trained off of Amazon as well Spotify were listed music These are systems that are trained on people like me. So if if I use spotify and I listened to a lot of classical but I also have like this random nineties dance like songs. I like for some weird reason because I am now. I was twelve once and I listen to the radio back. Then they'll they'll have folks who like me have maybe had similar tastes in. They'll be able to suggest songs that I would also like so. That's training someone else's data we. You're talking about I think would be a bank who really masters anti-money-laundering and then says I wonder if other banks pay US A TON OF MONEY TO MAKE SURE. Nobody uses their bank as a terrorist route for money on. Maybe we can sell this so that may happen on. We are right now for the most part seeing vendors serve that role so vendors working with bank XYZ whatever and then they're taking the data from all of them and their goal is to now have a from scratch kind of pull the cord and we can automatically rip that up to speed. We're seeing more. The vendor ecosystem take that role but some big companies may do it themselves to I think a lot of companies are worried about giving up their crown. Jewels like that but But the vendors are trying to work at it they're trying to basically what you're seeing today over. The course of the next five years will obvious but what people don't realize today as vendors are trying to drink as much data from the top one hundred is they can so they can service the entire mid market or less pushback not entirely but more or less really own that market so that's happening across sectors for sure. I think that'd be keys. You said more or less push-button it's like worse offer as the service got today. Yes is in complex to consume now behind the scenes to make it work. It's a little easier with API's on the software as a service players integrating a bit more but they still want to keep level separation. But that'll be. That'll be interesting. It sounds to me like there's a bit of a gold rush happening at the moment. Would that be good phrase? Very I mean there that's That is not hyperbolic to say you would be on point to say that there's a bit of in a gold rush. Are we gonNA see cool off? I think that that's really the big question. Because a gold rush kind of indicates a height bubble that is bound to burst on. I think it's being debated as to where that is in. Ai I I do think that the expectations were bloviating in a great number of sectors. But I also think the traction is reasonably strong enough of those where we're not going to see a real ai. Winter again in the same Gargantuan sense that maybe happened in like the eighties or so But yeah you're safe to say venture capitalist the startups everybody's in Ai Company. Now I mean there's a certain amount of the hype that is Beyond reason I say that. I'm sure there's a lot of challenges to organizations in adopting a I. Would you have a few things to do? Consider a few don't for organizations who are thinking about this. Yeah we put together a piece recently called something like a composite of fifty different interviews call the the prerequisites to ai adoption what we refer to as critical capabilities on hand. There's a number of factors here but if we think about big ones one of them is just skills so That's not only data science skill so having data scientists that's also understanding how data scientists and subject matter experts need to work together to enable a out because it's turns out you could buy fifteen Carnegie Mellon Ai PhD's on which is very hard to do by the way. But you know you could buy fifteen of them. Set up their own little office with a cereal bar in water. Slide and all that stuff and that doesn't get anything done. You actually need the subject matter experts in you need. It on both sides to be connective tissue in to work with those folks in and understand the same lingo understand problem sets in a similar way have access to the data they need. So I'm how teams work together and data science skills. That's the skill side. Another aspect of this is culture So as I've mentioned before doing in the enterprise today again five years from now. We'll see this ease off but right now it is doing science. It s s the hypothesis spending time collecting the raw data developing what we think the right features of that data should be training algorithm over the course of many many months cleaning gate over many many months before that and then we don't know if it's going to work and if it does it'll never be one hundred percent ray might be ninety something percent and he's going to be enough to save money so that kind of the kind of our D stomach. You need to have the kind of risk stomach you need to have to deal with? That is hard for most companies. And there's some bigger firms again like I said top one hundred players where They do have to now develop that kind of survival wise. They realized that that innovation focused kind of isn't isn't optional anymore. And so that's another barrier this. There's others too but those are two really big important. Once I think that's the key phrase you said. Innovation is not optional anymore. We HAVE TO INNOVATE. I in in my experience. I think organizations. We've forgotten what is innovate. Truly you know and I think These new technologies won't they can't achieve allows to refocus on my ideas on the technology itself but on wall to potential of technology might be but as you said I think You know some of the risks. Are you have to take the risk? You have to be preferred prepared to not get something right you have to everybody's talking about I just fail fast but you do have to accept a week a lot of money into this and not get the result that we want. But as I say. Edison didn't figure out the light bulb in his first. Go or first hundred goals or I you know but he had to have been funded some hell to keep going or would have stopped so we have to think about that intelligently and failing the right times I learned from it I always say it's not failure if you from it but it's mistake if we don't time yeah can't Can't disagree with you there and I think that The people you're seeing doing the Edison thing as you well articulated. Great analogy are really like the top five top ten businesses in these major sectors often. It's it's written in all truth. I mean even financial services it could be argued in some sectors. Like the top three. That really liked the less. Throw money at it right. Like the the like they're like Gung Ho on a lot of the number forty five on the global top one hundred banks for example they often really WanNa know the existing precedents of what has had are y for the bigger players right for the oaths of because they can stomach a bit of this but they actually don't have the unlimited pocket so to your point we wanna fail and fail fast but we also want to be able to pick those spaces where we have a chance to win on and businesses below the top five. Let's say sort of do do require on information about that because it's tough to lose too many times when you're you're not the the biggest town. I love that we've got the FAM- fail fast but we've also got to pick the place to win. Yeah you want at your odds right. Stockyards in terms of how easy to beat the deploy into basically proved management? Like hey see. I told you this wouldn't be a waste of time because no no headed innovation. Strategy wants to say well. I told you we could fail and we did. But I'd like more money right. It's much easier when you can say this little win. I got for you now. Imagine if you gave me five times as much right. That's what our clients folks are. Be excited to hear from now. Then you use a phrase. I've heard a few times am creative. Disruption now tell us what does creative disruption main in regards to this world of a. Um have then how is a is driving creative disruption? Yeah so I think this is really in some ways. This is not all that unlike any other business creative disruption. I think we could say automobiles the Internet. You know we talk about blockbuster minute ago. We can talk about Kodak in these famous examples of people who were destroyed on the process of the next wave coming out I think we'll see the same in so the problem with Ai. It's the opportunity as well is that we don't know exactly what these new norms will be will be the new norms of how you interact with a call center. We'll be the new norms for how you get financial updates on your investment accounts or your savings accounts are checking. Or what have you will be the new norms for how we shop. Some of these things are being felt out the big tech players but some of them are going to settle somewhere and as it turns out there may be firms that just cannot get the infrastructure right to handle on conversational interfaces for example or to handle voice very well and it may have a tangible crushing impact on their ability to service customers retain customers etc. And so sort of like again Internet blockbuster there will be some of these facets of ai that will be so critical industries at some folks a win and some just Just won't get gobbled up. It'll be so similar analogy. I wonder these days. Are these chapel. That we see replacing calls Going to disrupt in any way or they just more of an annoyance to some people because they seem to do no lower than enlisted people going to in the past. They don't tell right now Chat bots are so we. We have a very robust landscape of banking as are numerous sector. And I'll just speak from the perspective of bank in banking are there are on it chat bots conversational interfaces in terms of press releases from the top banks is lettuce the re times bigger than any other category of Ai Capability in terms of what banks say they are doing but when it looked when it comes to investment there are rules of business functions like compliance like fraud like cybersecurity. They're getting astronomically more money. And it's because there's actual results there the conversational interface stuff looks great to your customers to seem like your hip. It looks great to your investors to see like your hip but at the end of the day on really. It really isn't garnering that much of a of an Roi in Modi's actors. I'm not I'm not a conversational interface pessimist but I. I am a realist in that. It's a bounded technology and if it isn't treated as technology that can handle some low hanging fruit and otherwise should be routing people to a human resource instead of trying to talk win is running out of what the hell say if we're promising that that continuance that real conversation. I think we're over promising in ninety nine percent of instances today so Benjamin is where these data basically screams height. You just look at where the money's going you look at what people are talking about an. It's so obvious where the hype bubble is again. I'm not a total pessimistic. Good vendors there but off yeah chat bots today. I think the way to go with them. And against some of the experience I've seen with chapel not only have place but their their position than scituate to eliminate the person at the back rather than as you said to still route to a purse. Not The back when the opportunity comes across so we need to speak to somebody. Move away from the There is somebody there human actually go talk with so I think what we're danger of is using some of this technology to replace the human at the end of it rather than to facilitate some of the interaction still have people at the M. though the the chain so to speak leave me into this. I I talk a lot about this subject on the humanity of it. The human the person aspect of it. I guess so sometimes I I asked. Are we losing the personal connection with people and customers by automating more the question? I have down. Maybe you could help. Is You know how does this? A affect our personal connection with customers as a business as business start was yes. I think this this could go both ways on on the one hand you know not not because I'm a bad guy but because when it gets there on people will lay off call center people because the world because real actual the world because the state of nature is so angry and mean. And if you don't and your competitors do and you spend more money than they do you will lose and so at some point there will be sloughing when it makes business sense. New companies grow when you companies grow. They will grow without the the employee bulk. Now I'm not a fan of that and I think you know It's necessary. I'm not saying we should resist all of it. There might be regulatory needs for these kinds of things but I don't think that If you are the CFO If the choice is keep losing money until you lay everybody off and we all find a new job or we gotTA slimness department down because by Golly all of our competitors are reducing their costs. Those are those are real adult conversations. And I think we're not really seeing those crash into financial services retail today for is specifically. But I think we will when it goes to customers. I think that this could potentially go both ways. It seems obvious that if a I- stretches US away from our customers it feels very hard to win doing that. It feels very very hard to win. So there's there's some examples like an apple for example where I'm getting in touch with customer services like impossible but the product is really good and like so people put up with it but I think generally most part A. I will be about learning from all of our conversational. Interface interactions all of our phone calls and being able to better understand Meta trends. It'll be about looking at our interactions on our website and better being able to service our customers. It's almost impossible to see a writ. Large wave of customer neglect customer distance. Plus business winning at the same time that they seem essentially diametrically opposed so. Hey I for companies who win will almost always in some way. Connect them to the preferences. The needs of the people who pay them the dollars. So I'm not too worried about US being Disjointed inherently by in that way it should connect us to our needs and wants and desires. Whatever that is. That's intelligent way. I think of aggregating a maiden things like that. Well we'll see I mean. We had manufacturing industrial age as well as the revolution on the Industrial Age Are we seeing people replaced by machines? I think about the next stage now where we're seeing some of the service economy being replaced by software driven by big data facilitated by cloud. But like that when there was this displacement from the mechanically machine air new jobs came up new things came to. Hopefully we hopefully we. We continue on that tangent. Now down in one of your headaches talks. You've done a number of those into really good. I think our listeners should go have a look at some of those as well. You also talk about the emergence the automation economy. Now we did a segue into it there but what are talking about you talk about the automation economy. Yeah the automation. Connie I mean so I. I don't know so much if if it's economy. I think I know the text you're talking about is the one at University of Rhode Island which I do on so I don't know if I use that phrase particularly but I think I did talk about the rise of automation certain job categories. Do you WanNa kiss explorer that Lord. Yeah because to go into it. You're talking about a Driving let's say white collar automation so to kind of senator. I know you'll should. White collar workers be be worried or do they fear that this automation economy will take their jobs as well. Yes so the It's a good question. I think that the broad answer so the tedtalk actually does a reasonably good job of tackling. Nece on it's just Dan for Gela Connects University of Rhode Island or whatever but Pretty easy find on Google Talking about three main facets of what are the job security pillars that we will likely be able to stand on us and so on one of those is is what I refer to as context and so we talk about what should white collar folks be worried. Serve depends on their role. I think right now because we're not seeing the bowling ball. Destroyed pins across finance and retail and heavy industry. Where we're not there yet. So so real visceral. Will my children eat a meal? Worry is probably unwarranted almost ubiquitously in most white collar jobs however if we want to look to the future and secure as much certainty as we can about own Value in in an increasingly automated age. One one factor here is is context so I use a bit of an analogy here until about inputs. So that's whatever lands on my guest or my computer screen joke about my my work on those inputs. What do I do with this thing in? Front of me is a spreadsheet that manipulate in the same way as a form that. I check in the same way is it. A whatever is it repetitive. In wrote and the outputs do. I send it to the same inbox forward to the same person. Put IT in the same file structure. Whatever the case may be do the in the works and the outs more or less. Look the same without me. Having to know anything else in the business in other words I don't have to look over into marketing onto look over into procurement. I'm just in my world of inputs work in outputs. Those are the roles with no context right. They just. It's just work on those roles at the highest risk of automation across the board regardless of industry regardless of of. Gio allegiant and so folks really feel like they're in those kind of physicians would be in the spookiest spot for sure. Then other things. I guess for people to think about about their careers. I guess we're no longer in the era of Goat's college get your degree on the whatever that is go to the bank in this example and have a career for forty years get the gold walked off nothing fancy pants and I think those days of leftists behind I'm then we've technology changing so much that win away icy it in win people's careers going house to almost reskill to three or four times along the way to keep up to keep relevant about the rate of change. Were talking about this You know automation economy is going to force us to do that. Or if we don't do it we may get left behind. I mean nobody could deny that. I think even before we talk about you know. My Grandmother had one career upgrade that she has to do which was learn to type. You have to look at a typewriter typewriter. And of course for my parents were a couple more right. My Dad never really got with the Internet stuff. He ran a little carpet store and God bless a meat. He had to learn some new technologies and new ways of doing things. I think that the folks who now will in that store are having to probably even have an email list of customers who send messages and things like that and at some point. Maybe that'll turn to marketing automation on. So yeah I think that the technology tools. The ways of doing things are Involving faster than ever there is reason to be nervous that not everybody will be able to or want to endure that kind of quick hustle light and this will create that stratification of society writ large folks who who either want to or are adept in on consistently evolving driving forward into new problems to be solved and learning new ways of doing things and folks who For ability or for preferences just absolutely do not WanNa live in that world where it's a new dam tool it's a new dam workflow every six months I think that society. Maybe we'll figure out a way that that'll be tackled. But I think it's it's worthy of consideration in terms of how that's actually going to happen but we found in our Recent said global digital skill survey was one of the critical findings looked up and organizations now requiring people to have the ability to learn on rescale quickly and apply those skills as opposed to coming into a new organization with degrees diplomas. I'm certain types of learning. It will last for the length of time that they're indoor organization so the expectation is always there but we also found that not everybody is capable of reskilling but we do believe that they should be afforded job opportunity one way or another two jobs relation or twitter or social channels. I think that that's that's a big thing and the other any other. I guess ethical implications of say using a uniform organization or is there are ethical points from an society in general. I mean there's there's all sorts of considerations ethically in terms of Longbow societal impacts. There's things like you just brought up. Can everybody keep up and learn everybody able to rescale? I think it's it's somewhat obvious. It not necessarily. Everybody wants to do that as the aptitude for that. It's not the thing I'm it's very demanding. I think for some folks on and I think that how that is tackled whether it be universal basic income whether it be in this broader governmental sort of factors that I think we could say have ethical import in some in some fashion umph within businesses on. I think that a lot of the time a is being applied to kind of snipe out things that could be those kinds of risks so an example here is regulation or compliance in the financial services. Space there are things that I can say on the phone when I'm selling you an investment that by Golly are not okay so that they're just not an there's there's ways that may be money to be transferred that by. Golly if the regulatory folks knew that money came from this party and ended up at the end of the day going through the Shell Company. Into this party we would be slapped hard because you know funding terrorism or crime in some ways not right but also just because there's punishments there so we actually see. Ai Aiming to kind of fire away particularly in finance also in life sciences at these things that are on compliance unethical risk factors so I might open up some but it might also help. Close the door on some of these things like fraud. like Insider trading sort of compliance risk for example. So I think it'll go both ways. So yeah I think there's not the boat. Waist there should be careful on both dont critical question. The final word can make the world a better place in come. It's far too much. It's it's the title of one of my Ted talks. Which if you're you're not ready to consider very scary far off post human intelligence stuff. You probably should avoid watching that talk altogether if you wanNA give yourself nightmares. Maybe you can But Yeah I think you know in the long term like forty years out. I think we're GONNA look really wild shifts sort of human condition and hopefully that that is for the good. I think it seems safe to say that in the near term on the aggregate Ai. Kind of like the Internet will be a net boon for wealth. Broadly reminding to regulate it differently. We might need to change the technologies. We allow our teenagers to us. If it's making the whatever the case may be right but I'm on the aggregate I think hopefully net boon To sort of productivity globally on at least in the near term and so my hope is that at least from the business perspective. The answer to your question is yes. I think long term. We've got bigger considerations but relatively near term an optimist. Good good the optimistic with you there as well. I think there's always good. At least we gotta get regulation in order to get to that point. We have to have things out there then catch up. We have to see what's happening. What the potential is look at the Internet? You know think regulations coming in year on year four that it needs more book. You couldn't regulate it for that years ago. Because you wouldn't have known the onto the scope you will know people would've used for so unfortunately it loves KOCH OPENING GIFTS OUT WINDOW. I think of opportunity for US TO BE MYSTIC ONTO. Try and fail and as you said fail faster. Put Your money where you want to stack your chips. Don't go all in and try and try again. Daniel Fidel thank you very much for joining us on. Today's CCC talks. I think that's been really enlightening and they're thank you for your insight. Thank you very much. Thank you for joining this episode of CCC talks. We hope you enjoyed this episode and walk away with a ton of actionable insights if this is your first time joining us. This is US extending a personal invitation to you to join other. It and business professionals. So please subscribe on itunes youtube or Google play. If you're struggling in any capacity in your digital transformation journey contact we'd be more than happy to guide you and find you the right certification courses to help you manage the challenges. Modern businesses are facing this was CCC talks until next time.

AI fraud CCC US Google Ai Tune Organization Daniel Fidel AOL Golly Big Orix Mid West Netflix Ai Managing Director Gela Ohio
The Overlooked Sides of Digital Transformation

CCC Talks

28:43 min | 11 months ago

The Overlooked Sides of Digital Transformation

"Welcome to CCC talks empowering it and business professionals in their digital transformation journey find all the latest tips tricks and strategies at our blog and resource center at cloud credential, Dot Org and our host CCC Managing Director Marco Laughlin. Lawsuit. Would have. Been! Aloe for today we're talking every personnel chief digital officer and was the. Chief digital. Call out of. The NFL. For joining today's of this. Thanks for having me, I wish I were actually Dublin right now. Enjoying Nice pint. Anything. Oh. I hope. Man. I. Know ever thanks being. Be Your. Top Technology. You'll filter helping to be tech firms that she aren't disability scale offer souls. Skin you also a chief digital roles, mainly a and dealing war. In addition to call founding health listen lack. Come, tell us. Yeah my background is thirty years. As the kind of practitioner in the Enterprise Tech, world actually mostly in Telecom? And wireless where I worked with lots of companies from semi keynote through systems and Application Developers in bribes communications? And the last ten years, or so of which I've been obsessed with social media digital, so I've been personally and professionally out there as an industry observer. a kind of a curator and a highly engaged on the social media channels which we're all glued to right now so happy to share my two sense with you today. Tomase situation that'd be or so. Much about grandma, I, ask Sir talking a little bit about multifaceted talked before about will. Twenty for listened to your experience in your view on. What is? Well, multi cloud is leveraging best to breed. It's about taking. The opportunity to to build on Multiple cloud platforms. I mean we hear a lot of Amazon and aws? Azure but. Is actually you know a ton of a fascinating platforms as a ton of Niche, developer, platforms and tools. And the notion is for diversity and redundancy and scale ability. Globally the idea of building across those multiple clouds, not being sort of locked in to one particular vendor, which is. Potato help from an enterprise perspective very attractive. Well yes. We do fire south in precarious time got simone. Crisis. I think. Your relations are. Getting through this or still operating move. I think the Maldives Sergey probably suits. Against some flexibility you. Think you know. All Fox thank having do things differently. baynes world is male. Thanks Avenue. From free. Talking market check. You being. Is each. Is a death. or their make drums. To ask. Yeah well an enterprise tech. Nothing is easy as as you know. And indeed there there's there's benefits to being all in on a platform in terms to scale in terms of price. leverage. And in terms of training and enablement, but there can be also benefits in multi cloud particularly if you look globally. You know there are regions of the world if you're a global multinational or an APP developer who's rolling out globally where? Certain clouds have certain advantages and appeal. There's availability limitations I mean. They're not all created equally in every region in the world I'm not sure what Dublin. Ireland, for example what your local. In, a best of breed providers are. And there's benefits in having your vendor sort of compete for Your Business and cloud is not. Inexpensive unlike the perception out there you know it does. It is quite costly to to scale up cloud resources, and having you know your vendors compete for your business is a good thing. Also four disaster recovery I. Mean Cloud Regions Do go down Mrs. Zang will increasingly be a challenge and so. Having some diversity built into your architecture, your network can can be value as well. Of the the. Certainly been I think. Architects. These. Architects acting filing a multi trial Sergey. On contacts first of all. Of their. Technology second. Contract, you say well here. You're so this lead you talent, experience and Alex you let will Walton. Delays because. To the and C.. C. That. Cost you more money. Boss Coffee Student Do Federal. Law. The call by they're not. Feeling the Architect. He's from the new talk. Seen. Particularly the area where I'm quite active is the real time communication space. He you know we talk about what we're doing now with latency and Jitter and network performance, not all clouds are created equally, and there are certain regions or certain providers that do Work especially well, you know in certain with certain conditions or maybe have some advantages when it comes to certain features and functionality. And, so you know as a provider. You have to do your due diligence. I was interested to see that Zoom where we're using zoom video call chose Oracle as their cloud provider. Probably not the least of which was a bit of a snob to their competition at Microsoft and Amazon but I'm sure they got the. You know some particular advantages through working with Oracle, so there are lots of reasons why. You want to choose you know a provider based on your requirements. Many times you. You may find certain capabilities are. You know across two or three or more cloud providers. Yet. Leak this week. Markle. Four left equally say they're using multi. Credit is using. They're doing wouldn't say say six email. Instant using. The tools for storage. multiplayer. The. Are So I think one of the misconceptions with. People. Saas. For. Being, Arthur this law detract. Is using the number of Saas promoted to? Crappy. You match. The monkey twelve giving you A. Likes ability. To run between. Not, part. Of. Your expert meets being lower facilitate. Slow. Greenlee estimate sure thing to was possible. They're club. Hide the locked in so. Tally really achievable. Goal in the just gotTa! Get, it, said clarifies interests. Stuffy dumps don't. Yeah. Me Lock in is always. Good if if you're the vendor. Asking locked in for as long as possible. There are some innovative providers out there who are. Delivering a You know sort of window. into multi cloud, so you have a contract with for example centurylink here in the US have a multi cloud, offer or Telefonica in in Europe. Essentially delivering multiple clouds through their. Data. Centers equinoxes another. So you know depending on your requirements, it may be value to work with one of those intermediaries or or other providers who can do. You know the cloud, switching and routing and and. Through their networks versus working directly. With the cloud provider which? You know is is fine for some developers, but not not for everyone, so it's a complex landscape. It's worth really doing your due diligence. I. Think they're still was still got. Nothing to. Implant. There is certainly an opportunity for intermediaries to. To you know, pull multiple help. US work between. Gets, it's maximizing space. Bradley's before the. Crisis. We, think we think of real. For years to call I think we'll father that people worker. Access to these crops. Might. See Little more integration. TWEET! Yeah, they're they're. They're the big three four five cloud vendors. We all know. And and our our top of mind, but they're also a lot of niche cloud providers that provide a really compelling. Set of infrastructure services and You know companies like Twi- Leo. You're allow you to build on their cloud very specific. Telephony applications, blue ocean and another kind of hosting providers so. It really comes down to the requirement and and also service and support. And how to work with that particular vendor. And you may find their niche providers. Who can really offer you something that? Maybe it's a hosted data center. Maybe it's not relieve in cloud, but maybe you have a managed service of some kind so. You know that's why the CIO's get paid the big bucks to navigate through these challenges. Getting Song talking autism challenge of the moment for maintenance. The holidays to the. by Dr Available Bieber going to Heb longer. THAN BEING RAY Maybe not. Regarding. This global situation we find ourselves in. We've seen a massive exodus of people leaving offices that reach out now we're on. This Remote working. Collaboration. Globally without the clouds to. Fifteen years ago at the way Mosul Teamer, who no definitely not no the good question, a good thought exercise, but I think you know really everything is kind of coming together at the right point in the right time in terms of fiber to the node in terms of. Your broadband access in in many countries, sadly not not enough places. you know in terms of the capacity of these networks to provide? You know a capacity on demand we've seen. You know even companies like Microsoft and Google Seventy eight hundred percent increase in utilization of collaboration tools, and it really is only through a cloud i. you know kind of approach that. Would have been possible. And you mazing that these companies. From Cisco to Microsoft to Google, been able to scale their networks. That's a testament to. The idea the internet, but also you know all the technology that's been in play for the last couple decades that allow them to scale. Agency that we do believe it as A. Guest test now off. The team. To? Only at. Technology was able to vote were. Experience, saying do think also swore. Were from her to use the mobile technology secondly where they are, they prepared to communicate. Set of face to face during this period of time, we find the south to be able with us. No, not at all I think a lot of people. It's been quite a shock. obviously psychologically, but specifically workwise Most people don't do what I do. Which is you know? Work Virtually twenty four seven. They have their job. They go to the pub. Have a pint and go home and leave their work behind and I think that's frankly quite normal and natural for most people and so this new environment. I. Think is taking a heavy toll at a I think. Most people technically aren't really well prepared to work from home may they don't quite have the guidance and the setup that's ideal and a lot of people including ourselves are still struggling with with the tools and the platforms, so it's You know it's been pretty ugly in in my experience and. there's a lot of learning yet to do with adoption of best practices and tools and technology. And the providers to are a lot of them are playing. Catch up you know with with. Their platforms making them easier to use and and more accessible for you know bigger audience. Absolutely always. Think that the technology I met the people aspect Baltic doggy. Generally works later, I think we saw that one cloud years ago. Starting Over the DACIANS STUDENT WHO? Lots. Wine! Using cloud didn't know. Equal. Off Fog, market. The US. I'm not sure we're going to go back to the office anytime soon i. mean if at all will go back. Stages or phases We certainly won't go back. all at once and I think as we adapt and adopt these technologies, people get more comfortable working from home and really not want to. Return to the traditional cube or open plan kind of setup for. A variety of reasons and the companies are beginning to realize that they probably could have. Many of them could have worked from home in a lot more flexible way a lot sooner. That's really going to be interesting to see how this return to work. will unfold. Will mean staged slow, and I think a lot of people now reloading how it's fine, the get back. To even knew only work little log curve. Specialize traffic I work our. Back. Record really more. I think I saw data that people are working two three hours more now that they're working from home so this now the question is work life balance, and there's a lot of stress. involved in that as well so. Yeah, it's GonNa. Be Interesting to unwind and get back to that new new normal. For her. Asking talk a lot of that item team. Thanks. For say. Provide in Normal Times said what I'm saying to say. Not Marconi's donating to embrace snow. Along the side. Chain. All Its crisis. Comfy looking at. In your experience sale. Were once, fall! NORMALIZATIONS DOING I will take. Our funding and he. Was Difference. He's. Not was any news. Still you know. One of the top phenomenon sat or seeing. In the enterprise and right into the home We're seeing mass adoption of Internet of things enabled devices You know, now are stuck at home. Reading more of of our, you know, tech- technology, technology, setups, and on or deploying apple and Amazon and Google home style devices. That's that's that's been accelerating and in the enterprise. There is just tremendous real world returns real value in deploying Iot. I mean the. There's so many youth cases for Iot whether it's in the industrial setting, or in you know fleets and and tracking, or whether it's in. You know health patient monitoring it very practical. You know how Iot. Enabling businesses to transform to digitize and and help their customers that there's no going back at this. It's such an obvious return on investment, no matter what the business of the industry that that wave is just going to continue, I think. This. Team Times. During. Seen to the majority on Komo crossing to. Hold the question. Walked. into things to. Make more money. Do More. Of this but I almost feel probably long. Tanker. Fried. But. Your pros me. She'll be Maltau. Business, something different. Problems come so. OUT WENT Sluice McDonald's he. thanked. The costumer forest challenge for US nanotechnology lifetime warranty. Links looking at Austin. Iot. Make you think about digital transformation? New companies are are waking up to what they can do. What the possibilities are are, and then are developing. You know unique use cases that are that help them. So no companies need to get creative and Particularly now. Start thinking outside the box as there is no box around how they can use I T. To. To support their customers to you know to find new businesses. and to scale their businesses when Particularly weather under under a lot of stress. And again I think it comes back to those practical use cases and will differ from industry to industry, but one industry I pay. A lot of attention to is is Is telehealth and telemedicine and they're. They're just so many obvious amazing use cases for. IOT whether it's wearable devices that that can that can do. Monitoring and patient clicked patient data, or whether it's You know video devices in the home for you know having. A labeling doctors to to consult with patients not go into the surgery practice so. Things like that are just It's the low hanging fruit and I. Think Company should look at those immediate use cases. Narrow creativity people. Sitting down looking at the black wall. To. Wall tails up for a lot of care. blockchain. Being love. People talked blockchain. Chamber interest in. Promoting. Piracy. Violently inurance sprints title chain he trusted is question the. Well I mean it's. It's a bigger question in the Internet. You don't trust anyone or anything so I mean it's not like they're some gold standard of trust. I think it was blockchain for many. use cases is is seems to be a really ideal platform on which to build. And there don't seem to be. Let's say better alternatives so. Nothing is secure, one hundred percent secure, but I think blockchain is being You know tested and deployed and trial by fire in a way that other platforms won't be so. It's super exciting to see. What's possible and likely in any early innovation early stage technology? It'll be daft and. And It'll either fail or or not on its own merits, but I'm super excited about blockchain, and not just in payments and some of the crypto applications, but again in. Really interesting practical applications. you know like health where you need to anonymous data and and shared across network so? So you re really exciting times. I think it is three dollars spoke about think retains. Its ups things. blockchain a maybe been management of five. Into the health imparts maxine the situation five to me. I think there's. An opportunity for creativity for. Health experience using those technologies. Some physical. And yet changing our troops author now so. Lanes of people just crisis using tomorrow's. Patrick Chapin True August. The to Dr Departments adopted ophthalmology. Four. Episode. Would've. passed. The youngest meal were evolve into. Control probably as Cold anymore, but I have a couple of quick questions smaller towards yet, we. Couple days very short. Talk about their own. That wraps thirty seconds. SEATTLE. Is Clown. Pants? No not at all. I think it's one of those technologies like the Internet or A first mobile phone that is appropriately hyped I mean these things are transformative and are going. You know, are not just changing your lives now, but will continue to impact. It. Log Fastens stopped. Is IOT other. Is Exciting I think the challenge is the use case, there's just so much. Noise in the space and and so much more education is needed. there's so many providers and standards and devices that is just very confusing, so I would say probably under hyped, but A lot. More education is needed to before it can sort of reach the. Potential it has. Senior. As. Changed the world! I don't think blockchain will change the world, but in in certain industries like finance and others it will be. A revolutionary payments and other areas, crypto and banking, perhaps so I think in those industries that will be transferred transformative. Final question is mobile emergency number facing gaunt ten companies. You News these technologies. I think so I I think there's going to sadly going to be a series of winners and losers. In. The winners are companies that will adopt and embrace technology as they have been. Kind of and and come to the fore in a lot of companies who have been unable to change for variety of reasons, land and legacies. are going to Find it find a hard time, so it's it's Sadly, that's going to be a big Gulf between the winners and losers I think. I. Think, it's going to his fourth people change and Talk Lynch. Say See, how he loves! Going up to the the. Final words of altitude. Well I, think if anything, it's It comes down to us as an individual's try to learn and embrace and educate ourselves in these difficult times and take the opportunity to. Get Out of your comfort zone and Up Your game when it comes to. Because is working to be facing very difficult period so. You're going to need every advantage You can have so thanks for inviting me. The opportunity to chat and encourage everyone to reach out to engage with me on twitter and linked in where you know as you can see I'm quite active. Absolutely. Rank! Technologies this. Year's absolutely. They not rank for. We have to get a comfort zone. It's almost personally improve for these new talks I. Think they're really really strong. Personal Riffat. Automating! Times. Thanks so much for having me. Thank you for joining this episode of CCC Talks We hope you enjoyed this episode and walk away with a ton of actionable insights. If this is your first time joining us, this is US extending a personal invitation to you to join other it and business professionals, so please subscribe on Itunes. Youtube or Google play if you are struggling in any capacity in your digital transformation. Contact us, we'd be more than happy to guide you and find you. The right certification courses to help you manage the challenges. Modern businesses are facing. This was CCC talks until next time.

US Iot developer Google CCC blockchain I. Think Company Dublin Microsoft NFL Amazon officer Oracle Maldives Amazon twitter Marco Laughlin blockchain
The Digital Brick and Mortar Experience

CCC Talks

45:10 min | 1 year ago

The Digital Brick and Mortar Experience

"Welcome to CCC talks empowering it and business professionals in their digital transformation journey. Find all the latest tips tricks and strategies at our blog and resource center at cloud credential dot Org and our host. Ccc Managing Director Marco Laughlin. Hello everybody and welcome to another edition of CC. Talks with Markle often on the cloud. Credential Council now today. We're joined by TREVOR SOONER. Who's CEO of perch a trevor? Thank you very much for joining us on today's podcast. Yeah it's my pleasure. I'm excited to be here now. First off you describe yourself as technologists and adventure and the New Yorker. Now tell us a little bit about yourself. Wh- what's it? What's going on there? Well I mean I think those are the three pieces. That really helped define me. Father was a lifelong bell. Labs Guy. He's his teams created. Unix the T. One Line Miami beat US. Assist them so I grew up in an electron here in household. Es Major in from Princeton graduating ninety eight when it was that the hype of the first Internet boob just kind of went to startups in technology. And just really. Exciting technology is in terms of the way it's redefining the way we interact with the world Which other way we perceive it. The information the data. It's change virtually everything over the last twenty years and be part of that being part to be evangelism about those technologies has been a really excited are my life and. I think that feeds into the adventure. Which is you know. Scuba dived in every including Antarctica Scuba I've been shark-infested waters in the world I'm currently planning a trip to great white shark diving. those type of Ventures is death you know goes hand in hand it's a lot of adrenaline rushing And then lastly New Yorker which I think has always played at night acted living. I grew up in the house where I am. Legend was films around Washington Square Park. Yeah with with literally the best porch in New York City with the arch right there. You know I haven't tickets to the gay rights movement and if you You know the AIDS crisis and the cleaning up of the park. I grew up where you know. It wasn't so safe in the park. And now it's probably the the most posh place to live so I think I would say I've seen a lot of things that are fast paced high energy and high impact. And that's that's that's what I love about. Life is the only got one might as well live only got what absolutely. I live with atmos- F. You have one of them. It's not a dress rehearsal. You know go live your life as well. I think that it Kinda makes all this. It technology sound fun as well can be. It doesn't have to be anything other than that as well. So he sound but one thing I want to ask is a sounds like you haven't seen the film jaws obscene. I say great photo of me with a swarm of sharks one of them got a little close to me and my wife saw me head butter shark as it went by me. It turns out starts killed people very often. You're much you're you're much point. Danger Around B.'s. Endear yeah you know at the same time you know. I wouldn't get on motorcycle so different things for different folks. What we'll do is. We'll try and get a photograph for that. You will not shock situation. We lose something with that but we'll come back to that another day. Trevor Your Company Perch You know when we look at it as transforming the in-store retail experience. I think you're using the latest digital technologies to help achieve. That doesn't tell us a little bit about that. Yeah absolutely so. The idea. Is that eighty percent of people start their products discovery. Journeys online walked. Because that's what the content is right. We are ratings and reviews and videos and how to's were on our phone. You know five hours a day addicted to this thing you know. Millennials are considering eighteen hours of media and ironically the one place to go where there's no media is in stores was to be right and so why is that and what we asked is online? I can click on a product to get more information. We should be able to click products store right so the moment than you touch a product. We know which product interesting. It's kind of like clicking product. It's given permission to say. Tell me more. So we create these interactive retail displays. Basically touchscreens built into the shelving and the moment I touch a product. It knows what it's Kinda like. Ns NBC minority report. Yes Oh yes yes. Yes as the person's going to buy it's like Oh you're interested in this thing and let me tell you about it. That's exactly what that means is for the first time you know instead of a digital signage. That says maybe it's maybelline like how does that help me pick out of Mascara Actually message every single proper on. Shell and the bottom line is. We're seeing about thirty one hundred thirty percent sales lifts and then we got access to all this really interesting data right so now. I can tell you which rocks convert the best which media is most effective for. I think about what school digital media like a banner ad in store retail right. It's just a flashing something message. It's not personalized it's not about me. It's not contextual. It's not engaging. It's not in Iraq and banner. Ads died for reason right like we got banner blindness. Now we have digital sign age like we walk in the story actively like knows if noise. Isn't it so we want to be the future of Media really highly relevant product-based helpful interactive and. Frankly it's magical. Yeah and you said something there which really really struck a chord with me as you said. It's it's using this to say you know for the customer. Say Tell me more about the product not sell me more about the product is actually tell me more about it. I can make up my mind what I want to buy. Don't push it down me but I'm more likely to make a decision if I'm more informed on I what interested me in in this story were perch is unlike the online stuff you have the physical person in a physical store physical product now interacting with technology to understand the decisions that they want to make. Yeah no absolutely and the goal is to combine the best of physical and digital shopping right. So you can't help but notice that fancy headphones that you have on with Global Blue Microphone. Very Fancy House. Go about picking out something like that right like. Let's go to best buy and their. Tim touched it. You WanNa see it within. You WanNa see the reviews like what does it have noise cancellation or doesn't have my stance. Latian. Does that. Connect to your phone. Does it is a battle with the iphone or android and if you go into a best buy you get a three by five car. That's not gonNA work all these products in all the best experiences are really combining the best of physical and digital shopping and cheers going. It's not it's informative but also like what what what holds me back for making a decision on a product like for that and might be comparisons of products for lipstick. It's what is it. Look on my face so we have one where you literally pick up lipstick. Let's stay on your bright green and blue and red and all the different days a for Kate Spade. We do pick up a purse. You can personalize it with Polka dots stripes laps and straps. And you know that shows eighty one hundred eighty percent sales lift because seen all the combinations personalizing the purse just for you is really impactful. Another example is Johnson and Johnson. Right as soon as I picked up a band-aid I know. You've got cuts like. Hey you know you need me as forum for that too if he wanted to heal faster so it's really thinking mentality to customer and how to inform them engage them sometimes even had entertain them. Unless you consider what purchase doing I I you a disruptor in the industry or enabler or can you look that from both angles? I disrupters are by by definition enabler of new models right. I think this is disruptive. I think the entire retail industry is going through a massive amount of rapid. I mean it's rare in history that you see a four trillion dollar market Really going under so much churn right now and you know we often get compared to digital signage. And it's it's it's it's very difficult for me Just because I think you know you can tell. I think not so highly traditional digital sign it. I think it's better in. We're seeing kind of five to ten different types of results. I think it would. Actually you know going back to the iphone right. I had a phone before the IPHONE. It had a web browser it had APPs had text it had calls. It was a flip and they had the same functions but just this is a radically different device. It's a magnitude level of disruption that has opened up the mobile web. Help apps all kinds of date I see it as we are similar to some things. In the past but fundamentally different disruptive in the way we brands have visibility. What consumers are doing it? The shell way retailers imprint worked together the ability to bridge online in store back online. These are all new disruptive concepts like that and I think some of the organizations listening to this have to take that approach in industries where they are being disrupted As well and how to remain relevant even the Banking Industry. We spoke with somebody from insurance. All these traditional industries seem to becoming under under pressure. I think unless they take this type of approach as well they they may lose relevancy at some say sway retail has kind of lost relevancy for people. As you said millennials will pick up the phone. They will order online at the best. Buy they want to feel it? But then they're checking the reviews online. See better price. I can wait till you know a couple of days to get in or at tomorrow and then the store missing that so. I think that's great thinking that this industry we have to be disrupted but enabling at the same time I'll be have to be. Adopting to walk disrupted us in the last iteration to figure out what the new model is. Because I think a lot of this technology is driving us to think about new things on new models. Is that where it's taking us? Yeah I think absolutely I think. E commerce has really made people question a lot of things But a of misconception round cars so for example you mentioned the. Legno wanting to to go online so do you think millennials prefer to shop in store or a mile? That's interesting conversation last week. With with with my view was that I think if retail got a different experience like what you're talking about that it would draw people in but they have to change This person is talking to said No. I just want to easily. I had a coat just bought this online And that was it but I said to what you're talking about is buying. Kolzig is a commodity. They could get anywhere. There's no differentiation in that. But say it was your your sneakers and you could win on commodity is you could knock monetize. You could change those. I said the bag with the straps you can do different things interact differently. It would probably make you want to go into the store and have the experience that we used to have going shopping. It's because with that comes meeting France going for coffee. The trip and the trip the then the experience of actually designing your sneakers on maybe getting them into shop are getting them at the same time if you ordered them online but you've personalized them. You've been allowed to do that by these intelligence systems. Yeah that's exactly right. And and the fact is actually eighty. Two percents of millennials prefer shopping in store. They want that experience right but the reality is many still spill tolliver on an inch. Look at his. You know Millennials are twice as likely to spend money on experiences than goods right so retail. Experience isn't just that an experience you're gonNA look down on the goods part of it too. Cfc's Museum of ice cream and Wiki logs and all these guys who created experiences around their product and they're wildly successful luggage away. You know these are. These are companies that are building experienced around around their retail shopper journeys. And they're extraordinarily successful because the brands are also trying to establish more direct ties with their customers. I see myself I was surprised. With the percentage you gave eighty two but I said they won't the experience not so much just purchase piece which which is now commoditised. I'm I go into retail stores. Wherever it is on travels across across the world the woman I see the haven't changed that are just The shops with Iraq some. That's pretty much evidence stacked up. They don't interest me anymore. I mean you. The days of just putting products on the shelf are over yet has Amazon has tens of millions of skews on their virtual shelves. So you can't beat them at the game because like it used to be like. Hey this is the only store that has this election like yes. You can't win on election if Renamo price can't win on liberate where you went on experience on discovery. On the serendipity of touching products researching him talking to people in different areas you know. Intellectually market sales associate is critical and the other part about the retail market is basically because the barbell where a luxury markets doing really well three and discount markets doing well at that middle market is really struggling. Now also has to do demographics in America with the collapsing of clause. Yeah when we look at some of these digital technologies we've cloud big data internet of things artificial intelligence and how they helping you differentiate in the retail sector. Yes so I mean it's interesting because retail as a whole kind of Stone Age in terms of technologically haven't invested very much in their models. You've been kind of watching. These Amazon has grown to be this behemoth that Disruptive Model and and you know now now all of a sudden they realized this is an existential threat right They've been very slow to react. So you still have payments with the old green screens and all those type of things and so the good news is that before spending hundreds of millions of dollars to agree architect the infrastructure from the from scratch adopting cloud based data systems big data personalization Sierra. You're fighting for customer. Data that they all so the Ecommerce kind of threat showing them the value of digital competencies in store retail. And what's interesting? I just came back from National Retail Federation. Which is the largest trade show in retail the US and It was all about technology in store. Ripe like that's the making the stores and asset again from logistics centers supply chain customer interaction customer engagement payment systems. Cashless checkout everything around the technology of the digitisation store. That's the real focus for this year whereas you know twenty seventeen people are in a parking around. Click Bait around the retail of olives We'll come back to that phrase in the moment the very interested help I see that what perch you're using a lot of internet of things not was not high moments regarding Iot and how you would use that to get competitive advantage or was that just a natural progression of your thinking and the changing business models to I mean I talk about Iot when talking to technology folk or besters but when I talk to my customers. We never mentioned that. They don't of trying to explain to them in a house. Softened his may try despite the You know the reality. Is that the cost of equipment. Have Gone Down. Precipitously a subpoena Bad with gone down in so for the first time you can really kind of deploy these really intelligent devices to the edge of the shelf for us or the edge where whatever your businesses and start collecting data and even you know start forcing some type of interaction. Insert the Iot that we see out. There is like dumb sensors just collecting data. I think what's interesting purchase? It's actually a distributed computing network. Each each perch display is a Lennox based marketing no that interacts with clients measures Tests were behavior with computer vision and also delivers media. React TO PEOPLE MEASURES. What they do with the media. So it's much more interesting to me than just some of the I don't Cook dummer but less sophisticated less interactive Explosions in the Iot market that are really rapid. And that's what I was interested in your use of Iot because we've seen a lot of use cases of as you said these kind of more domer- sensors stir pulling a lot of data that goes into a lake somewhere. Whatever that is people I the count even structure it. They don't know what it means. It's all sitting there going into cloud because storage is cheap or at least the way. There are cheaper ways to store but they don't get much out of it when I looked at some of your stuff. The in store it was all about trying to interact with the customer. And what they were doing and then trying to pull intelligent if data that then feeds and correlates open tomorrow intelligent knowledge for the store about what's happening as opposed to just individual bits of data that nobody knows what to do. So there's a lot going on in using intelligence answers in an intelligent way to deliver what perch delivers. Yeah absolutely and I think that's what some of the things that differentiates us from the retail analytics market. Where if you go into a store next time look up their cameras everywhere everywhere right. And they're tracking traffic flow and what they call loss prevention which really means steal. Things aren't good heat maps and trevor walked in. And you know a forty three year old male with curly hair. We need to hear hit by this product. A you know a mile and a great way to do that. Yes exactly yes so for us. We're closely marketing assists. Just kind of like you know almost like a website right where you can use the data to decide how to personalize the journey can also side. You know how to improve it to do eighty test sample. Johnson and Johnson launched a beauty in caq. Which is that the display the end of Nihil at my supermarkets and interestingly enough. You put your lease performing product on the bottom row. Just it's the hardest to see right so they had neutrogena and Avinoam then clean and clear. Which was there is performing product at the bottom. And they had Kerry Washington for Neutrogena and Jennifer Aniston for Vino and precluding there. They have some person so they just you influence or videos. What we saw was that even though the engagement with the lowest Shelf because it's at the ball. The conversion rate from pickup to screen was the house. And so he said what's the difference here and look what happens if we replace. Carrie Washington Jennifer Aniston with influencers. And what we've seen is twenty percent increase in engagement. An additional ten percent sales up. So that closed looping not only the analytics by which too affects the behavior of the x Ray Data. For Data Sake we can move the needle and by the way traditional digital Four percent sales are just changing. The contact has result in additional ten percent sales at that shows about at the beauty for beauty for Johnson Johnson about forty percent sales. That's a substantive difference. So if I think it's important to differentiate between just sensor data collection and the things that are actionable closely tech away. Yeah Yeah I think you know. It's a good example of big data. Not For the sake of big data or data scientists scientific stuff that goes behind it is taking a step back out saying. How do we architect this from the experience? Capture information tells us is that right. I think a lot of companies. We've come across case. Studies are looking at that big data IOT sensor stuff from the technological side as you said you. Don't you know we don't talk like got some customers if we have that understood? And I think that's where they're challenged at spent a lot of money on the big data the IOT cloud all this kind of stuff. But they forgot about that what we call customer journey or customer experience or customer direction piece and I should be the focus supported by what the data is telling us. Not The data being the focus trying to drive a sale. I think yesterday Franchisor can I ask 'em again not on the technology of it but in using Iot from your company did you face any challenges with say the technology skills gap connectivity availability of Iot Solutions Products and software or has improved over the years? Yeah I mean look. It's required a lot of chief investment. It's a lot easier to deploy software to the cloud. And you know God forbid a bug happens right like he just you just deploy your current and updated hopefully a complex that obviously but with with the distributed network of marketing applications if thousands of knows with hardware and harbor the changes over the course of several years of operating business. It's a really interesting challenge. So if there's anybody out there have got devops in systems reliability engineers. Were actually iron. It's fascinating how you distribute these applications. But I think also you know when I started here even two and a half years ago. The landscape around Iot has fundamentally changed rules. Investment in IOT core as part of Google Cloud platformer juicy. You know we re architect at the platform platform around that. So we're starting to inherit better tool sets and certainly computer vision. You know. We've seen more progress than last four five years than in the twenty twenty five years before the offset. We're certainly riding a wave of a changing and vastly improving technology foundation. So problems Spent a lot of time. Solving two years ago are now automatically solves which is a little frustrating right because we spent the time to solve the problem but we also more deeply understand that there's a real value there to be early market. But not too early that you you've invested all the time I t in a way that you can't change it to to deliver acknowledges yeah nothing interesting. What we're seeing is The newish company like yourself having to re architect re engineer as you go along it's like you're rebuilding the bolt. That's your sailing on Azure sailing on it from start to finish. I think organizations that have been around longer period. I have had longer. You know. Time to sweat their assets or to use your investments are struggling with this little bit and probably losing a bit of ground that I think we've invested in whatever adhere services are digital that we're going to use but we don't expect to reinvest for another seven years. I think those days are going away that it's continual updating and re architect and reengineering based on the changes in the technology that we're using which is happening faster is that fair to say. Yeah absolutely I mean we. We had some strategic interest From a digital signage company. And so we were talking about immigration. Looks like where are you hosting? They're like Oh we have our own hosting facility with bare metal house like and it's going to be very difficult for them to migrate over Christie using technologies in there. You're running very big employment so today. Stand UP ENTIRELY NEW NETWORK. And then have to reinvest managing to networks and then like it it just certain extent. It becomes very much. Innovators dilemma in that way of innovators eleven. I love the book. I love the concepts that are in there and I think it's really challenging for some of those organizations even in retail as you said and they've been around for a long time some of them around hundreds of years but now not only are they. Having to fight with the ever. Changing Technology started coming up. They're having to reinvent the business models at the operate in which can be challenging as well. I think something like this probably company right so absolutely so eric. Nordstrom has been very public about Nordstrom. Right I mean he wants to make some changes but that would mean you know. Some short term hits to revenue and profitability and investors. Now it's like well we can't continue on this route. One example. Is You know the big metric in physical brick and mortar retail is sales per square foot. And I go to Novo's and I go select you know pants or whatever it is you can't you can't you. Can't actually buy in store. You Finish on the phone you finished ECOMMERCE. And then they ship it to you. So their revenue per square foot is zero right. If you WANNA naval showrooming like right now people in store and complete the purchase online twenty percent the time something you alluded to Warren capturing those sales so it turns out that stores are much more productive. It's just you're not capturing the data and the other part about it. Is You know a lot of the reason that these guys are going out of. Business is finance right. Twins arrest loaded up on debt to expand our physical footprint and then all of a sudden they had more debt than they could pay because it was just too too fickle. And if you look at all these big guys that were talking to one of their biggest problems with its JC penney sears. Like the real big talkers. Hammering the restructuring their debt our. They're gonNA make their debt payments they just don't have the financial wherewithal to to to be able to navigate and make changes which means they're force to continue down a strategy. They know is not work. You right so macy's for example. This week just announced that they are going to close a bunch of their less performing stores opened up a bunch of new smaller format stores focus on the categories that makes sense and you know even though they announced you know a closing about a fifth of their their store footprint. The stock went up. Because this is the right move you have to have that ability to to change directions and pivot and a lot of toys R. US LOBBIES COMPANIES. Just got put a deposition to not be able to. Do I think the significance? Yeah we say we say this a lot in some of these education classes that we do that You know your challenge. With the short-term financial position of public companies return value to shareholders which profit goes rather than reinvested innovation changing. But if you reinvest out now for a period of time okay you don't get the returns out dividends but you're probably going to be in business for a long enough time to recoup later on so I think it's too short term thinking with the wrong financial vision or metrics as is where we are today in a lot of companies which I think will go against them. That's all about capitalization strategy and you know what you just said. You could have been talking about me. Hirsch Right. We're you know Despite all our successes we have raised a series institutional round yet you don't. We just became cash flow positive But you know I'm ready to to hire eight. Engineers built my data decision for data product. I think is really fascinating. And so we're about to raise a series but in the meantime to your point. Mike concerns are short-term profitability. You know I I could literally load up on ten different. Ten salespeople record now bunch of engineer an over the course of three period that would be fantastic investment right but I've been waiting for the capitalisation series which were raised this year to an so. You know it's not just the big companies that have to deal with short term versus long term pressures. It's certainly every startup. We tend to forget that as well. Yeah me interested. In Am- big thing here is ultimately trying to drive customer engagement back into physical stores. I think a key part of this as I thought about this over. The years is if you can get customers in back into the store you has a physical presence. Physically towards the products enable them to interact more like online as well in the store. You're going to get them and but what you're doing. I take it that you do need to use the latest technologies to make this happen using traditional ways of it or services are that doesn't quite get you. There is it enabled now because off. We've cloud we've Iot big that we've all these new techy things that make this easier. Is that helping helping you? Miss Searcher were riding. A variety of technology trends and computer vision not At certainly a really helpful. But you know this. Isn't you know this? Is it minority report? This isn't twenty years away. We are deploying. Thousands of screens defective. It's not you know crazy expensive. It's not an experiential agency thing you know this. This is all positive. Roi Drive so you know. I used to say you know kind of purchase. The future of retail at the reality is the future retail. Now Right. What's what's the WHO said that the quote that the future is already here. It's just not evenly distributed You know what we're doing now is going to be everywhere right like there's no question that you deserve to have the media about the products as you shop for them and and that you know traditional digital signage fails miserably kiosks never loses a kiosk less than one percent of shoppers will engage with the kiosk. I think the CMO Perry said Isis that nobody wants to interact with the kiosks. The Nice thing about purchase it comes to interact with you some tacit fantastic now trevor. You spoke in the past about. I think augmented reality. So tell me a little bit about reality and how that's going to change. The retail experience for for customer sounded interesting. Yeah Yeah I think. Most people are familiar with arguments reality in the form of snapchat filters or instagram. Stroker's those typically. They're real time through your camera on the phone. We we use technologies to update what you see and sometimes that snapchat filters actually one of my favorite ones is. This is a bus stop in. He goes in London. And you'd think you're sitting in the bus. Stop think it's a glass window right next year. Actually a screen. That's looking through a camera that will slowly through the other side of that window. If you will yes yes looks like you see the people walking. It looks like a window aliens. Calm and start sucking people `lions in masters crawl out of the subway wrapped. People comes at you. It's great it's it's it's it's a disagreement Pepsi Search Over Pepsi Augmented Reality Campaign. So you know there's magic leap that has raised at how many billions of dollars you know. Sold a couple of hundred devices. You know the cameras that are around the world or are getting better and better interpreting the world recognizing objects and that gives us the opportunity to enhance that. And so you know. Google glass was very early on this where you know you could overlay information on the physical world and I think the challenge to date is that it often requires you to Phone out all the time walking around or Google classes on something I dad and you know there's shows a lot of really interesting potential But you know you kind of need more mass market acceptance to to make it work and I think apple has announced that they're gonNA launch glasses now in twenty twenty three which those who to So we'll see I think that the the the notion of combining the digital world the physical world the possibilities are endless and exciting. And there's so many like just thinking about being let's see you're in inventory right like inventory management walking through the warehouse like oh. That parcel should have gone this. This is empty inventory low warning. Imagine all the intelligence of doing your job better. Walking through the world seat yelp reviews the restaurants. Is you go by seeing somebody who you don't remember but immediately comes up. This facial ricocheted. You're connected through the X. Y. Yacht linked on my Zayed. That I could do it some of that. Somebody's yes see you. How's your wife Kids vacation at out? Whatever right you you become much more knowledgeable about the world by providing the right message at the right time overlaid on the physical world. I think that that that that's good so I guess what's you know the future for retail look in general. You mentioned earlier about a retail apocalypse. Very fascinated about that phrase and you're taking it so Zach. We expecting a retail apocalypse anytime soon trevor. There's no retail apocalypse. Eat that word. It's like a use it to Click. Bait. It's like New York or even an interest. Now it's like it's like. It's IT'S WEATHERMAN. Brian to sell you weather reports right like. I'll give you a couple of sample. So ecommerce is growing faster on a percentage basis than actual brick and mortar but on a dollar basis brick and mortar is growing more than Josh. You're every every brands losing stores. There were five grand opening stores. Two-thirds of custom of of retailers who have raised more than six million dollars like open stores and Amazon at the King of ECOMMERCE ewing grow. Yes stores yes is a variety of reasons for this facebook. Acquisition has gone up. The cost has gone up. Three hundred percent of the last five years so all the consumer companies are seeing their cost of acquisition. Go up because of facebook because as you scale just gets more expensive and all of a sudden you're like actually it'd be a lot cheaper to open stores and acquire percent that way not only is expensive. You build a better brand loyalty to customers are more profitable return their items last. It has a big of random pack stores. Turn out to be like it. It's fun and talking to people like Stores if ya where. Eighty five transactions happen still four five trillion dollar market. There's so much money being spent on stores and in store infrastructure. It's it's it's mind blowing and I think a lot of people are like oh stores are data like okay. All right I talked to you. I think it might be. They may be that if they don't change or adapt to what's happening as you said won't store closes five will open. Their opening. Wouldn't experience some of those examples. You gave even small stores. They're not stocking stuff on shelves and you just come in pick off shelves. They're actually giving you something something more. I do agree. I think Yeah it's not a retail apocalypse. If these are these stores retail actually thinks that we've got to change our thinking our model Companies like ourselves and there's technologies now to be used to help people do something different in the store and I think I explained this myself saying that you know the retail in general. Have what Amazon desires which are stores because they have that personal touch to the end consumer that can pick up the product that they're in the store and then they can actually gives them more of an experience than to get online buying something of commodities item. That you said the after not happy with that they can return. But if you've had that experience you might be happier with the purchase overall. Perhaps not return it. I think this doesn't change. I think the challenge is people are hearing about store closures and used to be there all these big stores with giant real estate footprints because used to compete by amateur show. You had on shelves right. Yes you want gels. You'd need a bigger space. But now that's what it's about at all in fact you know the bigger the space. You have the artist Phil experiences. So it's like. What is your retail experience for square foot? As opposed to revenue per square foot is is kind of this new kind of measure. So we're seeing smaller footprint. Stores Better Service better information better tracking from onto in store back to online. And you're gonNA continue to see a lot more of that. And the reason that they're five grand opening stores for everyone that's closing is because all of those with a digital mindset inexperienced five-setter thriving. They're just they're not named sears. Jc Penney they haven't been around for fifty years. The big anchor tenant at your mall closing down. Its cast further went public and his opening two hundred stores Madison read. That's opening up. Eight hundred store it away all birds all these guys that we'll be parker everybody's talking about what would be Parker. Have you heard of Parker no looks okay. So they're the people say. Oh that's the place where I go online to buy glasses raw. They sell more glasses in store when they had just fifty stores. Now the well over hundred stores. They are in brick and mortar. You know I- glass retailer to have a very onerous brock presence and also just a great customer experience that links that e cars presence and your you know your customer data. They know prescription. They know the last Frames that I bought didn't know everything about me. So they provide a great experience for me and you know I think we're GONNA see a ton of change but it's it's you know. Last year was called reinvention. This year I think it's brick mortars returned to the throne look brick motors turn to the throne. I do believe there is a space for them. They just need to change the metric. Tell me that metric. He gave us there. Is it retail experience per square foot as opposed to revenue per square foot? I love absolutely what? What was the tip of joy you create? Why do you why even come into the store like a woman gets excited about going to Sephora or match right because they get this experience if I have to go get more you know old spice deodorant like this sounds terrible riley? I wish list right actually reality. I don't spis meet Donald Vice honey Free like you know. I want to look forward to going shopping for clothes. Electron IX SMART home. You know the I don't want it to be a short. Yep that's true. Have you tried any final words? On how digital tack services are changing. How we live our lives. Well I mean that's a really broad question rain by design. Yes I like. I am excited by lots of different technologies. I think we're finally coming to realize that the power and the dangers of data including social media And I think the kind of next phase is really figuring out like how do we create technologies that make our lives better rather than maximise at me maximize revenue? And I think there's going to be kind of a reinvention about you know how we communicate with each other and what Poston but we share. I'm excited about Apple. Pay Getting rid of my wallet. I don't understand why I have to have a wallet with all these sayings. I'm excited by obviously computer vision and really understanding. What's going out there in the world and how to aggregate information existing ways of course that also has dangers to it just look at the monitoring that they do in China for example. You know we're we're starting to starting to realize star are kind of Scifi futures that. I remember when I was growing up in the eighties Washington Square Park. And you know I think we really have both the opportunity and responsibility to guide these technologies to make the world amazing place a joyful place Engage a place and not just a really great advertising market. I like that you said we have the opportunity. But the responsibility I think that's important to finish on We have some fantastic technologies on some fantastic opportunities as well but we need to make sure that we do that. Correct fellner thank you very much for joining us. Today on CCC talks. I'm sure we'll talk again soon. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me on. Let me talk about purge you know About technology this has been really great and Love the show. Let's do it again from Tassie. Thanks again thank you for joining this episode of CCC talks. We hope you enjoyed this episode and walk away with a ton of actionable insights if this is your first time joining us. This is US extending a personal invitation to you to join other. It and business professionals. So please subscribe on itunes youtube or Google play. If you are struggling in any capacity in your digital transformation journey contact us. We'd be more than happy to guide you and find you the right certification courses to help you manage the challenges. Modern businesses are facing this was CCC talks until next time.

cloud US trevor Iot Google CCC Johnson Johnson Amazon New York City Washington Square Park engineer Iraq apple National Retail Federation Iot Credential Council
The Role of Technology in Talent Management

CCC Talks

53:48 min | 1 year ago

The Role of Technology in Talent Management

"Welcome to CCC talks empowering it and business professionals in their digital transformation journey. Find all the latest tips tricks and strategies at our blog and resource center at cloud credential dot Org and our host. Ccc Managing Director Marco Laughlin. Everybody and welcome to another edition of CCC talks with Mark on the cloud credential council. Now today were John. But Dr Anna Thomas who is department chair for human capital management programs at New York University. Now you're a researcher. A writer Speaker Global Educator and coach focusing on what we love the future of of works on a thank you so much for telling us on today's podcast and we're delighted to be here. Thank you great. Now you describe yourself. As being passionate about developing innovative approaches to talent I wouldn't organizations and to help discover a higher purpose for the next economy. So listen tell us a little bit about yourself and your passion for this field and I just a couple of a- background points. I think that will be helpful. I started out as an academic but then I left academia to really go deep into the business and I ended up in Europe working in London in Helsinki for telecom companies before returning to Before returning back to Wall Street New York City where I am now and I kind of saw it all Absent downs in the company and companies. That were too big to fail in experiece to significant downturn. So I didn't just theoretically looks from the outside in on what was going on. Inside the organization I was actually on the management teams and I had to deal with you. Know a whole range of issues associated with talent and strategic town of management. Both again on upside where people were promoted and rewarded and all the good things associated with that and on the downside with the business was contracting. Atlanta people needed to be laid off when they were in significant distress in what became very clear to me from obviously from the very beginning. Because I was in Strategic Human Resource. Spanish man Was that. There's a lot of room for improvement in managing people in organizations. And I think we're experiencing right now at a huge disruption to the traditional business models and a turn to a much more humane possibly much more humane way of managing people in that. Might Sound Ironic to you because you would say what about automation. What about the robots coming in the center and? I think that that's very very interesting tension as we're getting more machines in there's a huge opportunity to You know to become humane and how we manage people and what we do with People who come enjoy companies in the broader ecosystem contractors communities and And partners that companies were quits. Yeah I just said very interesting for us when we think about all. The new technologies coming in a lot of it is looking at replacing. Some of the let's say activities that people do use a fantastic fraser tension. And I think that's becoming a parent organization today. What is that? We'll drill in a little bit. Maybe a bit more later on us. Attention might emerge coming from but certainly as you said You know we talked about this. Fourteen revolution with the change of technologies. All these things. What does it mean for a so? That's something that I think. We'll come back to in a moment now. I also see that you're currently working on a book Which has a working title. I love this the end. The talent management's as we know it now. Can you tell us a little bit more about about what that means the end of talent management? Does we know what's changing. And what is this I think it's really fundamentally again. Has To do with not only a tactical changes that are occurring on the ground. Which is the automation that we see. Also a huge philosophical shift You know I mentioned that. I was global towns for big companies etc in whole premise of punk management. Economy as we called it or to kind of the predominant the dominant management architecture that existed in companies and still is its legacy. One was focused on what High potential culture. It was all about. The theory goes That it twenty percent of your at malls temp twenty percent of your employees talent. They deliver eighty percent of value unique to a disproportionally invest in ten twenty percent. And that's what constituted this whole talent management architecture starting from identifying that that high potentials developing high potentials rewarding high potentials retaining hypertension and so so when we started measuring. I'm very big Analytics in technology person when it comes to hr we can describe a discuss that later but when we started really measuring things like engagement Were showing us that the engagement. Just very law you get. You know seventy seventy sixty seven. Whatever the non bizarre but close to the seventy percent of the population is disengaged. Then the question started coming up. Why is that the case and obviously not all had to do with this kind of asymmetrical management of people in organizations with prioritization on the twenty percent and I am not even going to stocking by the bias associated with those systems that was set up to select that twenty percents that were twenty percent of the big number. Usually the ten you know and and you're familiar with that in. That's what became known as the top management organization the Organization Town. Mike premises that in economy. We are in right now. It's about personalization. It's about bleak spirits. Everyone is a talent. Everyone deserves the best in in a paid attention to and so we moving from Tampa percent to a hundred percent and net shift is not possible without technology becoming available to us to scale the services that were only available to select few on. Obviously companies are now revisiting. The whole scaffolding now was put around this philosophy of ten percent to To break it all down into see. How can we build it systems? How can we build the prices? How can we build the architecture that will support a hundred percent of people working for complex? That's an amazing shift from ten percent. Two hundred percent and now I think if that's reality which is as you said that that's what you're seeing part of the challenge though is in the mindset that you said we have legacy thinking now lot of organizations when you mentioned legacy will think about legacy. It systems replacing all of those with digital systems. I wonder how many organizations are thinking like this saying our talent management ten percent mindset is now a legacy mindset for the situation we're in today and the label we call that fought and lost your revolution or all things digital what whatever labels we want to put on and I think or do you think is not a big challenge with organizations now to recognize that moving this ten percent to you know the employee experience one hundred percent that we should invest in everybody as Opole cities does mythical top ten best people in the Organization of course because people the hardest thing to change people's behavior went on even Nam The neuroscience. Now helping us a bit to look under the hood and see what actually happens at the brain level on. Why is it so hard for us to to change to innovate In in it's so I would say of course it not an easy change and it's not necessarily happening talk down with some companies does with others. It's it's a slow process so you kind of have a spectrum right now. I would say that the majority of senior managers at or CEOS even level the C. Suite level in companies. Malaya that you know it's in Deloitte measuring it's it's around seven key plus percent of companies as saying experiences the most important kind of talent orientation that we have but in terms of actual implementation of employees It in Maybe fifteen twenty percent only companies. That actually doing something about it. Nolan has arrived but companies that are actually moving in that direction so in terms of actually making the shift we are at this point of Strategy Execution Gap. There is anonymous ending away. We need to be but those a lot of gravity that pulls back into aware of we we we are coming from clearly. Hundreds of thousands of people have been socialized in a very different system. And it's very difficult to give up That that power that certain people gathered being in ten percent because they are the ones who are making decisions now Shoulders really interesting dynamics. That's an developing now in companies in. I think what why I feel that I am sort of a person with a mission is because I see so clearly that I can explain articulate really create a pathway can help companies to get there. I think that's very important so again there. They helped get there as you said. Nobody has yet arrived but we certainly need to have some on on on the journey there. Mc Year teaching at New York University. You're lecturing around the world and you know one of the areas of expertise lecturing on. Is this thing called? Human capital management covered a little bit of it. Can you explain to us a little bit more? About what human capital management is about. Yeah I mean. Human capital management is just one of the terms that apply to the people function in the company's And it's also in in in some ways a legacy name it we developed from personnel which was purely transactional administrative functioning companies in full support of management. You know religious paperwork and administration to H Aw Human Resource Management Way. People were resources now. We kind of moved into the financial in the eighties nineties into the financial models around companies and we put you know some Value into the human assets that were considered to be. You know that's where the capital comes in because we started measuring the human assets in financial terms But now we are in experience as I said. Now we're talking about people experience. We're talking about a function that is much more distributed in diffused and obviously is looking at Mojo Listrik -ly at they A the subject of our attention in companies which is people so so unfortunately. What if you were at the university you kind of have to deal with The titles that are standard or these types of functions understandable human capital. But you know if it were me I would be. You know more in the People's action but to a lot of people have doesn't signal you know what it used to be so It's just the option of terminology in time interesting. You said we've gone from being recognized. Us human resources to then human assets to now that you use your experience or human experience as the value chain there which is interesting. I've seen so many organizations trying to address the human experience or employee experience. Soley with technology if we bring in these technologies we increase the experience around here. And I'm amazed because generally they will decrease the experience if it's only a technologically driven approach to doing something you know to getting up the value chain of people because people don't get the experience out of it or you take away. The interactions the human element of people with the technology is the way they're trying to do it. Graham starting to become careful with that that they don't over engineer to engineer the experience side with technology alone Would you agree that you can't make this move without bringing the people with you that there will be a clear statement? No and that's why you know. I M Y you is. I create a a masters in science degree in human kept on analytics technology which is close the behavioral sciences and analytic technology. Because yes. I think you can Bring a data scientists or technologists into a CIA in that you're gonNA solve people's issues that off point about overwhelming people with technology on the one hand yes. It just rains again. Can't cope with so much. Change in transition nets one thing on the other. There's something psychologically new that's beginning to be recognized as an issue. It's cold the experience deficit I mean it's the term that's behaviorally recognized as as again as it is a downside of bringing so much technology as it turns out as humans for us to process something we do need time we do need reflection. We do need Social Interaction if certain changes need to occur in by Creating shortcuts through immediate delivery through technology which seems to be more efficient on the size of speed and acceleration where actually creating deficits on the behavioral side and psychologically which of the downsides of which we do not yet exactly now but we already seen it in education significantly one we're bringing students in who are digital natives people coming in who've been educated in already digital age and there are some significant again deficits in what we would consider the full human experience so. I think we are learning to be living with technology because it's not an option anymore. And but we're learning also the downsides and we need to be more proactively addressing these types of deficits in understanding the impact. That technology will have long term nauseous short-term efficiencies that the business might be looking at. I think that's very important for listeners. Think about human deficit. It grows mortgage technology to try and solve their stop. Deficit probably grows because you've unequal balance now too much technology not enough of the human the human element and a common theme that relates to this. That we've out on a lot of these These sessions he's talks is no recognition that we've gone from highly manufacturing industries into service industries which are now being or moving into the knowledge industry. That seems to be where we are in a completely different thing to say may moving from manufacturing to services required people to do differently act differently be differently and be educated differently and have different technologies. I think that's happening from the services in the street into this knowledge industry and it's not a direct shift that you immediately stop one on. Start the other one of those questions. I have for you while businesses might be recognizing vest with the work. Say That you do and and what you're teaching is. Do you think the individuals the humans themselves individuals in jobs. You think they recognize any of this. How significant this might be on them or are they unaware of it. I mean it depends you know humans a different right So it really depends. Most most of us are reactive to these types of changes. That's what creates it's creating a lot of stress because people are unprepared. It happens to them only. Then to your point they become aware I think what we need to be doing in this is where I think. A lot of focus in a mine field right. Now is trying to be predictive That area that's growing really fast. And we'll also teach on in. Our Program is workforce planning understanding of the rate of obsolescence of skills in the jobs level. We're not talking about jobs with talking. Where breaking down jobs into skills because every job can there's no I mean the category of jobs is going your way We need to understand what's involved. People a much bigger than jobs right watson all kinds of skills both soft and hard skills are needed in an we in. What's interesting about what's happening now? It's not all skills at once. Go Away we only notice how we talk about. It's kind of mechanically. They were jobs now their jobs but it's much more subtle. These in these changes that occur. Not only at the job level again. That's too that's too big. An happens overnight in nets edits reactive. But it's a gradual transition. Parts of jobs are being automated and so their environment we're going to be living in Is GonNA BE AMENDED? You know? Every job is going to be melted with technology so pretty much no one is going to be immune to these types of transitions and so where we are now because again I like to. I like my role of being on the solution side of these types of issues that are so central to the future of our society is to figure out how we can be more predictive about these types of changes happening And how we could be more proactive in creating educational pathways in learning pathways Have necessarily education with capital E. Win that they're learning in the flow work. Reskilling all of these types of things that it technology again is helping us be more efficient in acquiring a new skills entrance thing but the trick here to what you meet. Just ask is to go from reactive to proactive in. Where in asks where you know Again Smart Technologies I- analytics helping us to to make that shift if we're predict if we have predictive about it in prescriptive around educational pathways in put resources behind it a knowledge. I think we're going to eliminate a lot of pain in a lot of disruption that we're experiencing now because now and now it's happening because again we are kind of waiting until it happens in too late. It's always too late so is too late. You mentioned something that I think He said I saw about it. And we're bigger jobs. We do when I think one of the challenges that has been found. Is that a lot of people self identify with the jobs that they do. They attach a lot of. I think self worth to that job and the job that they do a now that we're in this world of absolute change. It is happening quicker faster than change of has ever happened before I think. That's impacting these in the conversations. I've been having with organizations as well. I can see that having an impact on everybody in the organization from decision makers right down to the the the lower levels in an organization that even the people that say empower are actually struggling to get to grips with. What's changing. How's it going to affect me? Never mind the rest of the staff here. So there's a bit of Cell Survival. I think For people because of the way they attach that everybody but some people will attack sell for us to the job that they do based on the role and position that the half. I think that being challenged as well at the moments That's what we might response to. This will be He. Full are attached to work. You know people are the work. Is You know oxygen food for humans. So in that's different from jobs in for as long as we understand that and how new in create opportunities for people to be engaged socially and work. That is going to be you know. That's how we need to be a reframing the whole conversation about jobs because it's not about jobs jobs are gonNA come and go We've seen in the past. Yeah Yeah So. We are hard wired to work just VIP productive to be socially connected with people in achieve outcomes. We we are you know somewhat. You know maybe competitive At some level different degrees of competitive but a lot of the whole range of human emotion is associated with work. And we talk about the dignity he'll work in and I think what's happening is if people have been trained in such a lenient way in their associated with a job that's where the that's where the fragility of this type of concept house. That's where it breaks down. You know if I'm only thinking on myself as a coal mine you know I see. I see the shelf life of that profession as very narrow very shore. Yes so and that's what you know. The politicians obviously take advantage of it. They're gonNA save you know if I want to win this population i. I'm going to put the coal miners back into the coalmine. And that's not how these types of issues need to be resolved. What you need is to give people opportunity to work. You have to find what they would be good at how they the skills this is. Where again the Union of measures skill? What other Equivalent skills that we could be. You know Draining amend of that will be relevant to the next economy and it turns out there are quite a few A few skills out there and again if you develop the ability with helpless technology etc to identify you know the kind of the strengths of people etc in develop those skills in them create work environments for them where they can be deployed. This is why when when people lose jobs we always tell them volunteer. Don't don't just isolate yourself For that job when you volunteer you actually are continuing to develop yourself in in in your participating in the flow or can you participating in society. So that's the way we need to be thinking about it. That's fantastic. That's really good. One of the things. We did a recent survey report from the CCC the Global Digital Skills Survey one of the critical findings that we got from that survey was that today are requiring are acquiring sorry requiring people are looking for people to have the ability to acquire skills acquired him quickly unusual skills as opposed to looking for people who have degrees and other types of You know career spanning knowledge or experience that seems to be moving along this trajectory in the fourth Lucia Revolution. That one of the key things are looking for is an ability for people to learn and relearn. Quickly on reapply regardless of you. You know what they've had in the past always reminds me of this phrase walk got us here will not keep us here and I think that is so relevant. Today that you're not going to get a forty year career from the degree you had twenty years ago in today's you just won't exist because the jobs are changing skill requirement. Everything's changing so fast as you said. We see a lot on these talks. A lot of 'em automation coming. True technology automating half of. Somebody's job so you've got to be able to acquire new skills and transition on change trout your career. What you think is the scale in itself that people need to have some people say it's more difficult for the older cohorts Sunday younger. I'm not convinced out. I think it's probably a human trait. Are you able to learn and relearn as opposed to how old are you on? Should younger people learn better? I don't think that that's how it works. What am I think that's part of a what's happening on that phrase what got us here will not keep us here. I think ever is ever so relevant as part of that on it you talk about this new world of work. Which is what we're in today spoken about. I'll just quote here. What we need most is a practical guide to brave. New World of work. Talent CONNECTS A to employment wherever and whenever it finds the best fit. Can you elaborate? I think that that's a fantastic phrase. We're GONNA write about that in the blog but can you explain that in a little bit more detail where we're coming from You know I. I wanted to respond to your your first question about education in learning race Because I think it's really important in there some Just really briefly. I think we're trying to identify people. this skill sort of cognitive capacity for learning in Learning agility so as we are finding that we have a different Different keep ability for learning agility. The humis first of all no one could be competing with the three year old in speed of learning. You know so I think you know when it comes to trying to engage the age the right age to learn the three year old will out pass everyone else in up on much. Learn on how fast in just you know. So let's let's park it there and then I think that some of the breakthroughs in A research in brain research has actually Shown US Scientific phenomenon called neural plasticity. And what we found actually human brains learn over time. There's no limit. We used to think that after forty we kind of freeze on time. And that's not the case in in it's a bylaw. We biologically Program to to learn in the other thing. I would say that what we're GONNA need is all kinds of learning those quick just-in-time upskilling in relearning absolutely need that. But it's not limited to that we will need what what's rat right now. Becoming the more of a more of a deficit is critical thinking in some deeper a deep learning research etc skills. So becoming much much rarer in would see if I could offer a metaphor for this and that will be kind of the hardware and software of learning. You know we will. We will have the education. Kind of more You Know Depot type of education will be needed with with a lot of experience in the air conditioning That's going to be developing that hard way included a hardware for learning and then Anon we will have to always be acquiring some new skills like using to acknowledge etc. Let's kind of the software like the the APPS you switch them on and off several a day in that we're going to be a very complex learning machines and It or not machines as an autograph but learning learning You know humans end next to me. A lot of research is now is going about breaking the code on learning. How can we learn relief? Fast in non learn and what it takes so that's going to be released secret to lend Javadi of us in the job so I really wanted to respond to that. Inland your last question. If you could just briefly repeat it so that we are on the same page so Kota yourself You're talking about what we need. Is them a practical guide to this? Brave new world where the talent connects to the employment wherever and when ever find the best fit ago that was really really good right right and that's again you know without technology. We can't do that. We have to get in. Everyone is focused on finding that job. Right of finding a job in the other aspect of this conversation has been around global if we can work virtually Then New York. You could be in Glasgow and we are still collaborating. We are still working on a project at etc. So those are the most kind of Highlighted aspects of this type of connection. But I say what we are also advancing right now in this whole area of connecting to the right opportunities is A whole a whole universe of self assessments reflections understanding your skills. Turnley focused psychologically. What's good for me? What what how do what's Malt motivates me for job et Cetera in? I think that element is often under under represented in these discussions. But I think understanding your purpose in helping people on Stanton what they're good at and what motivated by is a big element of that and We have you know more accessible assessment tools. Right now we have. We are also scaling coaching. You know I I mentioned that at Nyu. I developed a new program Master's degree the first one in the US in Executive Coaching Organization consulting but we are working with Several companies that have against software in delivering coaching in everything from Therapy Clinical. Consult coaching too. You know more advanced types of executive coaching could be delivered at any point in any time so not only. Do we have the infrastructure? The tracks that were laid out through technology to be to deliver people through those opportunities and for those opportunities to find the right people but we are also helping people to deeper connect with whatever they wanna do by knowing themselves and having support systems that they can organize themselves through consultants of the right networks coaches etc to be really self identifying the right person in the rape place at the right time. Lhasa and I think that's a big change for me and a welcome change that I'm seeing so it's not. We need ten square. Things fit in town square holes. It's now looking at the individual. How will you contribute to our business? The best way you can contribute to our business with the best of your skills and abilities out. It's another phrase that stays with me for a long long long time is never Georgia fish by its ability to climb a tree and I and I think that applies to what you're saying here is we're looking at trying to. I didn't find individuals themselves and how they contribute rather than. Here's how we want you to do things in this environment and so I think that's the evolution of human capital management. Fantastic to hear it. We know where to go if we want some of this. Coaching Training and education You're the experts. You've got the The Masters Course on that and Gracie research is going on behind that As well that that's really good will ever quote that I was drawn to from your seven paradoxes of note for hate your which are on your personal list for twenty twenty strong to this when people can check that ad they look for it number one and this year called people are not going away. The opposite is the case automation leads to greater focus on employee experience. I think you've covered a lot of what that means in our conversation today. It's clear to me now. I was GONNA ask you to go into that in a bit of detail but I think our last thirty minutes of really covered that that the opposite is the case you do recognize automation you do recognize it is coming in more and more for the best because it's leading to greater focus on the employee experience. I think that's key. I think there's a lesson or some learning there to our listeners. To have a stink about that. So one of your seven paradoxes. For Hate Your on your twenty twenty list. That's number one Irish people to go and think about that a little bit more. Can I ask him? What does the future hold for Human Capital Management? But in general will it reach a critical mass whilst the time period? Is it next year five years but when do we see all of this really getting you know into into hold in organizations yes so first of all? I think there is a very definite They're definite centrality of this function for companies I mean I think what I'm seeing and you've talked about these consecutive revolutions We have moved from using the muscle on the job. That was the job using a muscle to now using the brain. You kept talking about I kept talking about technology economy etc and we are moving into the economy of the hearts Really inept that's not here yet with still in the brain kind of But the B. B. Premature human. We're going to be even find out what that humanity is because we will have all the technology to replace the horsepower right and even thousands of I'll pay us when it comes to intelligent automation in some of the intelligence functions will scale of data processing. And you know T- Ai. That's coming in and lots of other things but I think that kind of humanity in us the heart the motions the empathy it's Cetera DAX. What's going to be a prime in companies and again you already see companies talking about and it used to be just supposed on wall but now it's becoming a true meaning where they talk about the purpose they talking about DEEPA values where for example even look at the pollution of diversity and inclusion auction started out with fewer compliance reporting that was a compliance function. You have to report that you've done a check the box. Nothing changes in and we are now have much more nuanced tools of measuring in inclusion in in surfacing the value of our human diversity. That's contributing to the bottom line. If you'd like yeah so I think I think we're going to see the huge resurgence of this interest. In what makes us human in businesses going to put the premium speaking about cap dylan acids etc premium on these qualities. Look we are going to be able to harvest. And that's that's a dream you know for me and I'm working toward that. It's not just abstract to to be able to you know You Know Leverage End Harvest. Those amazing unique qualities. What makes us human everything else you know? We will have the machines to do it. And they're going to be intelligent machine. They're gonNA look like us. We won't even know who is a machine who is not in some cases in that will be harder because it's all going to be around augmentation but to reach that level of cohesion in Iran. If you want we really still have this huge unexplored area of human emotions of work this is. This is a next frontier and we adjust putting the toll when we talk about. Well Lessen stress and we're only seeing they kind of they the Braves down again from being reactive. We see when it's breaking down a how bad it is in. Kinda the business case. Where making saying you gotTA TREAT PEOPLE. Nice because if they if you talk. These are the bad things that are going to happen. But I think we've learned to look on the bright side in really see what in and it will be a big Hamam into all of us to turn around and say we wish we knew before that what brings us together. What makes this business? This business successful is the is the diversity of all human qualities that are contributing to the success and the outcomes that so anyway. That's kind of a very very high level picture but I don't think it's unrealistic. Let's go I think content is a wonderful thing. We'll we'll see what happens there and I think again what we're hearing in a lot of these conversations is the more technology we were starting to use the more human we're going to have to become. I think it's amazing mindset to get into but we have to move ourselves to become more more human. I think because of what otherwise we get lost all automation on the one thing that fascinates me about the human race as a species. I think is our diversity. I think that's critical as I said. We're we're different. We have different views on. They all they all they all add up to now normally at this stage. We do few quick fire questions with you not doing that today. Going to change things a little bit. We'll see how it works. They tell me Mark. Don't break formula to go I'm diverse anyway. So let's give it a go so instead of asking you some questions. I'm going to ask you quick far. Now maybe thirty seconds or so. See your responses on some of these articles that you've written you written a lot of articles in this space over the last number of years. We've gone enough how to reach a lot of them. They're fantastic. I'm just going to call you about some of the article headings until Me Watch. What does it mean? Give us a thirty seconds. Quick fire on it. So first. Recalibrating workforce planning for the Twenty First Century Organization and a quickfire thirty seconds. What's that all about? And that's we discussed that. It really is being predictive about the changes that will happen at scale not just again individuals. But how can we predict tower? The composition of your workforce will change within the five ten years in and give some advice and prepare for that change so that it doesn't come as a surprise where not reactive. We appro active. A ballot workforce some another one. He wrote about the adaptability challenge. And we've covered some of it but if you get that down to about thirty seconds what are you covering in? Their adaptability is is is a mosque these days. It's no longer shen. Everyone has to be adaptive and the challenges that we don't like to be adapted and organizations have Legacy structures people are attached to the titles in jobs. So we have those hangups. Wait wait wait. We do not like to change. That's part of our survival instinct and changes threatening so so that's why adaptability is a challenge but it's also a amassed it's it's it's a goal. I think that's opening their M. You talk about the promise some peril of teams sure. Everybody's working team enroll collaborating. That's a promise. But what are the perils apparel? Is You know it's very difficult to be on the team. You know as much as especially diverse teams. You know we know for a fact that we almost have to change would definitely have to change our mental models about success for example Yon NBC. Very aware and nonbiased. So that's why the the T. teams is the future at the same time. It's also a learning curve. We are not because most of the time teens kind of happens good team. Successful teams happened almost by accident. We have not really researched them as much before. But now we are paying a lot more attention. So what makes a team successful part of that formula? Be The ability to work through challenges in the resistance and You know the downsides in In managed diversity for the benefit of the of the team rather than full apart as a team so there are lots of pros and cons to the team in. It's up to us to learn how to do it more effectively. Yep Yep I've seen first hand over the years successful teams happening by accident. The majority of them are then having success almost by accident to which amazed me you talk about 'em wires hate your pursuing Agi lightsaber. Everybody's doing Ijaw. Why is hey? You're doing a light version of it because you know there isn't as I can. Every Trans Air is a very off the docks way of applying agile as you know it could be very formulate in the and unfortunately because HR works with humans. Most of the time we know that it no one sits into just one way of doing things. We talked about diversity that that was running theme of our conversation so I think that as much as they agile formula that we inherited from software development the applied across various processes when it comes to humans in working on some very very human decisions we need to be more nuanced in how it supplied and maybe less off the docks in application of some of the processes that more open-minded entreated Morrison is again as a mental model mindset of agility and adaptability than just a set of formulas yet. I think you can almost apply the approach to most agile projects or implementation door. Whatever phrase for going and I think the last one here at learning twenty thirty beyond technology so we're looking at ten years into the future. Will we be there with a human capital? Management will have arrived or we'll we'll be still beyond the journey or will be affixed at all with technology. I don't think we'll ever arrive. That's the beauty of that show. Let Alone Landa me in ten years and see where we are but But I think you know what I said is that it will be a really interesting An interesting evolution of Jan humans that interaction people technology as well as ask better understanding who we are always a hot wide What we know about ourselves and really accommodating and developing technologies that are going to make us more powerful more impactful more intelligent in all the good things associated with that can obviously paying attention to what we don't know in what's going to fall through the cracks and we're GonNa find ourselves in the privacy. Hell you know. And whatever whatever the next than saying that we didn't disobey is GonNa hit us I think that's kind of going to be the path for the next ten years. I think it's an interesting pop. It's journey not the destination. It is journey. I think it can be a journey with a very interesting view. If you want to open your eyes on and look at it and you reminded me of one of the critical findings. Just finish up. We found from our survey was organizations. Don't know what they don't know. And that's one of their biggest gaps and challenges whether it's technology whether it's human capital management. Whatever that is they don't know they don't know and it's almost as if let's not look on the Dirac to see what's there because that will mean change and difficult evil but I think we've got to be brave. I'm on a previous talks. We had somebody say. We need managers and leaders with goats. That will do something that may fail. Br at least they're learning. It's not I always say you know that phrase it's not failure if you've learned from it certainly is if you do it and repeat it and do it again to definition of insanity but if you do it if you get this wrong learn where you got it wrong. I'm be stronger the next time and tell your staff and work with people. I think that's a good view now before we finish any final words on how organizations can continue to get the best from their talents. How they can keep them or how they should develop their staff in this digital age. Any closing words for you. I think you know. Just stop focusing more people because people have been a second thought maybe third fourth on the agenda of the CEO's and now we're seeing that it's coming front and center in when people business people were very smart very artificial in in eighth. They put their minds than their hearts to achieving those goals in that's kind of appeal to the management. I think that that that's where we are going to be on a good pass. It's still going to be easy but it's certainly going to be A better experience for all and we'll get there faster if we have the right leadership moving us in the right direction. Well some of the best advice we got on these calls. At the very end Allen's always the most simplest of advice I mean their focus on the people in third or fourth down the list. I find that amazing people should be top of the list there to town there. Two things that make things happen. There are people that think do an act and the automation helps to parts of their jobs. Focus on the people. We're going to leave it there. Thank you so much for joining us on. Today's CCC TALKS. You've got so much insight into this fascinating growth. Thank you very much. Thank you so much all the best to you bye. Thank you for joining this episode of CCC talks. We hope you enjoyed this episode and walk away with a ton of actionable insights. If this is your first time joining us this US extending personal invitation to you to join other and business professionals. So please subscribe on itunes youtube or Google play if you are struggling in any capacity in your digital transformation journey contact. We'd be more than happy to guide you and find you the right certification courses to help you manage the challenges. Modern businesses are facing this was CCC talks until next time.

Human Capital Management CCC New York University Strategic Human Resource US Mark Atlanta Europe Dr Anna Thomas researcher John New York City fraser Managing Director Tampa Marco Laughlin London writer cloud department chair
Grasping the Essence of IoT

CCC Talks

55:37 min | 2 weeks ago

Grasping the Essence of IoT

"Welcome to ccc talks empowering it and business professionals in their digital transformation journey. Find all the latest tips tricks and strategies at our blog and resource center at cloud credential dot org and now our host. Ccc managing director marco laughlin blow everybody and welcome to another edition of these talks with markle often. Undeclared could angel council. Now today we were done by adela metric dancing head of activity service provider at miyoko. Ag malvo co was a collectively management platform provider headquartered in austria which is heavily involved in all things iot iot solutions on services and adela previously. You're managing director at tally to austria. And not only that was also the vice president of the female leaders network. I will get all the time. I believe recently your interviewed by forbes because of that role in the female leaders network so has some ties exam. But they'll tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do this digital iot world thank you mark. Thank you see talks. It's a pleasure to talk to you. All so what i do in iot so my journey started a couple of years back exactly like a five years back in the days when it was cold. Machine to machine connected device says big data and yes. I one of those people that that is very much hyped so very much excited about iot. I was in the frontline. basically Meeting customers on a daily basis mostly the alike big enterprises traditional companies who Back back then were like okay. So i see this big thing. Big waves coming at me. So how what. What should i do. How can i repair. How can i be just allies my company and my like products. It's harder company and so so it's been it's been a journey or it's it's it's an ongoing journey as you know with not it never stops and especially if your nowadays -nology environment is always about new things coming in. Every nowadays we talk about five g we talk about a is so we talk about many many future going. thanks. And i'm very much of the mystics so i very much of domestic. I've come from the days when it was talked about. Twenty twenty was a big year for us because it says like fifty billion devices will be connected that was like cisco or gardner reports and we all have been rushed a towards that number and it was about. We connect everything so basically toothbrushes or whatever doors machines. There was no limits a cow. We even have elephants that we have elected back in in south africa So i think we done some really good so i personally have have done some really good projects but as well. I have contributed like many of us to this big hype of of internet of things where we said l. Let's go and i think that nowadays. It's getting more and more mature which is good. The people are realizing kill. Let's a little bit mystified this area. Let's see where is exactly that we should be looking at what fits to to ask our industry our customers and not just basically rush into it. Because it's so it's so nice it's fancied it's a buzzword than you know you go around travel around the world you need to the mobile congress or you go to the las vegas different conferences and you just get all these shiny. Object feels feels perfect which is good. You always need this kind of companies that pushed through and bring new ideas that we haven't talked about connected toilets in know that was a couple of years in in las vegas But as well you know we it's good to stay. Stay grounded and realize okay. So what additional company that For less fifty years hundred years has been producing hardware has been producing a big heavy machinery. So this company and realizes digitalization and what does it mean. In most of the cases in the cases that i've been working on it's very different and this is what i love about iot personally and why have been very long there and i feel so i see so much opportunities because there's different ways how we can approach different problems and different challenges. So it's not one size in one solution fits everyone by this basically. Okay what do i do. I think that's where the company's a little bit out of my experience get lost because they see okay. You know this big Producer or these big companies doing this. Let's try it out without considering. Okay what is that. We as a company no other value but our culture. What is that. We want to see which us we already have. Got to talk to your customers realizing kate this make sense. These are the couple of years that he won't work with the first prototypes. Go get You know the the approval from the market from the ceos and so on and so forth so To to make the story make the story short. It's a very exciting area to work in. Its so much for me personally. It's a big. It was a big challenge back then and it still is because you know developing and i would like to see many many women as well in this the iot industry and especially in tech so i t slash of course tech industry in general and this was one of the reasons so back two years when i started realizing that more and more if you go up to the corporate ladder or in general when you're in the in the tech industry in international environment that i am the only woman at the table and you know it's it's good it's like when you're focused on career and you just like okay like i was back then i want to learn. I want to develop to grow. Give me more. You know exciting project. So i was very much very much focused. And then basically. I started looking around and i started seeing different initiatives and i started to do more research and started talking to to to other women who experienced the same That they are the only woman on the table and that they are unable and they are basically you know sometimes feel that they are not involved. They're not included. There was not her. Because you always be groups. You will always have people who are like super lower than they just. You know like to yell. There's lucious out and and in most of the cases other you know if you're not you know pushing over all on all sides and you've been super super loud and if you are moving towards collaboration which is very important variety than your voice doesn't get doesn't get hurt. And that was that was basically motivated. Me that i just started getting a little bit more and now i'm very actively involved where i work. Not just for women in tech. So i have different initiatives that i do it women attack at as well Women in business because we see the diversity inclusion and is so much important blow belly and so those are the things that you know. I'm not is a global business. This is what i was always. We were always saying out and as well this topic that that we have diversity inclusion how to make everyone heard and our opinions heard and included. It's global topic so somehow i don't know it fits together and you know you you meet people so because i am very much about customers. Anything estimates partner working along with them so it fits together so when people ask me about the time i would say that it's For me has been working really. Well is about connecting the dots basically. That's that's one of the one of the skills that that i've been nurturing throughout the years and it's just like okay. What was you talked to one person. You're my brain starts thinking about. Okay how can i want this person to projects or how how. This person should work with our partners. Or maybe i can bring these bursts of different initiative and so few interesting areas and they're making think oil tea is one of the docs in this digital space Can look at. We'll really about in moment. It's good to see you know the gender balance female coming into it. More than we've seen off. I think that's a good thing can only be a good thing. I think probably women no longer as the technology and the nuts and bolts servers. And all that kind of stuff as we move into this cloud digital world. it More about a business enabler rather than the technology itself. I think that's a great opening to get women interested at school college university or later in their career into it because it probably is it is just bitterness at the end of the day. You know so at where technology may have not same degrades. career may be for some brennan. It's not fat anymore. Now it's about the business. Focus africa's apple iot we'll talk about iot will Technology because it's just there now with all providers. What are we doing for water. The benefits not a thinking. Which i think is good and give a deep passion newfound for iot which which is good as well because i think people understand it. It's very so interesting and water can do and the opportunities out there but what we've seen you probably saying you're heavily wealth A lot of use cases we've seen many companies interested in iot that make additive advantage or some new product for something like this but a lot of companies news that we see Start with technology first and then fail. Spent a lot of money. Coupla million maybe tens of millions maybe a lot more into an iot project. Goanywhere doesn't yield results. then it's cancelled and have you seen examples of this and if you have. Can you tell us where they went wrong. But will what happened there. So i think he era on spot market with that and and throughout the last years. Oh my one of my job. So one of the The discussion the main discussion. That i tried to help with my customers as a consultant as well to move aside -nology so as you said it's a business. It's a business decision and it's firstly about realized kit. What do we want to achieve. So where do we see ourselves as a company in five or ten years. What is the vision. And what is the vision was his mission of the company. How can we if we are hardware. A company for instance or heavy machinery or factory. So how can we. What is that we want to achieve with with these prototyping because it's the easiest way to go into a prototype so easy and it's so easy to get ideas because we all have ideas so if i ask you about three hundred years of out to connect the machine so you'll have it. Everybody has ideas but it's about realizing technology is at the end. I was coming to a consultant to from telecom operator so at the end of technology enabler. And it's it's mike. My job at the end of the day was for this customers to put the sim card or seem chip in the into their devices. Or so and get the data together the data and could process it so we as we realized back then and it's not about technology that comes basically a later stage because it's a different if you realize okay I will have these cameras for instance. Let's let's think about the cameras. And i will have these cameras and they will be installed in this house. For instance will be. It's so that means it's not a moving object so it's a static objects static object require different connectivity requirements. So that means that the -nology so enabling them it's different than if i'm thinking about. I'm logistics company and as a logistic company. I want to be able to know where are more my trucks and cars and whatever i want to optimize their roots and so on and the performance so for them. There's a different set of requirements that they need a this worth you realize basically at the end of the day so when you work with the companies that what does it needs so maybe i will need forty hours. You know to is not enough to any three g. Four any european coverage i need. Us coverage an east asia. And how much does it cost. Basically but i is. It's very much important to start with the with use cases and what we always advise our customers because what we forgot to say is that i'm not is complex. It is so. I don't want to underestimate the complexity of it because it wouldn't be right because it is very complex and i must say that as well that we all of us in this system sometimes make it even more complex of because for us. Sometimes it's so hard to understand and then when we go to the customer we as well they expect from us to advise that in the best way and what we advise the customers ten was basically that we work together with the partners so we never said like let's fast prototype it and let's roll it out and see what the market says but let's bring best of breed partners that we have in our eco-system and back then we work mostly with with a strongly with partners and then we would say okay if you he wanted digitalize unit if you are a hardware producer and then you want to you know digitalized your nickel system than we would like to bring couple of partners might be assessed asia for instance or any other partner to the table and then together they would they would be able to work it out so it's important to realize that it's about the ecosystem so it's a and that's what major telecom operators are now talking about. It's about the equa system and it's about you know not going into different verticals. A trying to offer some horizontal solutions. That can help customers not to get overwhelmed. Ormat the beginning. Yeah that's pretty interesting Is it not is about ecosystems that doesn't exist on its own. it's where it is today. We named for it in the past but it really come on leaps and bounds in the last number of years with clouds. More digital enabled technologies that are provided by harmless. Who call hartford snap. Because that's what they are. They develop a platform not platforms. It's not the am solution but it takes away a lot of the plumbing Think about anymore. So i think what you're saying normalizations they think about what's uae. Why are we doing. This will do holiday achieve something for our customers or our business and then knowing that we have to address the up but we have occupied to help us with some of the technology but we still have to join the bit in the middle. And he's that's where a little bit of complexity comes in which which i think they're trusting because very poorly the partners out there a need to understand the walking away but also understand risk complexity. Because amb you're solving you redefined solving business problem customer problem or to do something different. That's not easy business. So if you're trying to do that in business outside of the conversation ninety that's going to be a difficult conversation anyway but we shouldn't be afraid of now. I think we should embrace it as art of the business discussion using technology digital services as part of the answer where we no longer have to make 'em build all the it to make it wrong. I think that's free advantageous but certainly iot. We say it does require use of partners and their services as well. I'm sure the company start thinking about iot so you know as you said it's very popular now. People are jumping on the iot bandwagon. We've got to do something with sensors customer data at all sorts of different things. Where's the how do they start. You know what what a one or two tips for organizations to really focus on trying to our star trying to do the right thing. So if i may add just to our previous question. It's always about this. You know you have this Usual business as usual and as well. It's always good to have some part of experimentation. You know so. It's always good to put some effort so it's not about the whole companies is jumping on on the iot. But it's about you know this exploration so what can can we do and then it might be like five percent of our resources or and so on so let's let's try to play out and see what we can make out of it. And then in the in the parallel businesses users utilize running what we have seen through our experience through working with the customers and what we advise them was start small and test tested out and then scale. So it's not about you know connecting If you if you are a vending machine for instance and you have your your Your vending machines through the airports around around europe. So it's not about connecting ten thousand of these machines and specifically going into you know the whole europe and the us and china so it's it it's as to be the headquarters for instance hearing in vienna. I'll start with You know this is five wending machines that you have in your in your office. Let's let's realize who can you know once once we realized okay. We want to connect them. Because you know we want to make sure that we are. Machines are always service that we exactly know. So for instance. If i'm at the airport and the machine doesn't accept credit card. So that i know okay you know it. I have to leave and you have unsatisfied customers or customer. And you know you have a big line That people that cannot use your services so it's companies have realized that the thing is that they're realizing more and more and then of course the ones that used to approach us and not us approaching them so it was all already know they saw. Okay we want to do something. And we see of course that we can use it for the service maintenance choose or the predictive maintenance that was the you know the the basic the basic use case that we that we all know about it so start small. Try our see. See what does see what what works you know and really give give it a try so i it's not about buying cheap one euro whatever Cheap from from china our the cheapest ones that it doesn't work then you don't put the person dedicated person so that's as the other things that you have to have people who will take care about these these projects not you know. Put another extra effort on on his or her table. So it's it's about you know it's up it's top down the companies to to realize that. Okay we we are treating this very very seriously so we we want to give it a try. And then you need to educate a certain resources like people and time three to six months where you basically where you play play with it and try try different tools and this is where mostly in old all the companies so they did go to telecom operators so in in most of the cases they will go to telecom operators or before that they already have. If it's really roj corporation they used to work with consultants or like the for You know major consulting companies that would go to dam the they would do our big business case for them they would calculate all of that and with ideas and the second or in parallel is the telecom operator telecom operators they play a very important role and I back in the days. I was confronted daily with customers. Asking me okay. so which. Technology for instance. Should i be using so now or in a what happens if you know. Two g is not possible anymore. Treaty is connected the sunset is so what do we do. And then you know the usual case is about you have the backup you know have have either. Don't put all your your eggs in one basket. So i think realizing that that we are all learning all learning. We are all growing saw. I i that's why you know what we said before partnering and that it's not like telecom. Operators are eager to give their part of the revenue to to you know different different sides of the ecosystem. It's about realizing okay. A complex a problem in every company different. So we need to. We need to have different set of players who can support. But i would say the most important is to start you know start with this particular use cases this particular challenge that we have start small so because you have at the end of the year award after six months you will have to show costs. It's it's important to keep keep track of your costner. Just spend it as there's not more than you don't have costs For for for other projects give it a try and be very transparent and open about it. So i think it's it's in the company's level i think transparency and openness. It's so important because it's gives the you know the tone and the culture plays an important role where you involve all departments In this in this whole story and make it people in that they are involved and then they feel that they are that they are contributing to the solution and not being basically isolated. Unfortunately it's like that that Most most of the projects they end up in the in the. Poc phase are so very fascinating buf- buffets but they stay there so this is a this is another challenge that that we that we have seen the you know if you re different reports they show they show the same unfortunately it so and some people will say okay because of the lack of the resources or because you know we don't have enough people can look into this or we don't understand it or you know the the priorities have changed and the challenges are to are too big or the securities is so so important and so on so i think what matters for the companies is to really from the start trying to find people that you really trust and want to work with and that they can support you along the way the ordinary descend from state. Buy into them. People trying to innovate with iot getting the right team in place. So many case studies now that show organizations put in multi multimillion dollars tens of millions of dollars. Whatever cards into loyalty put it into appeal. See proof of concepts gave it. six months. didn't see any return back to shareholders cat. Just disclose them. That's a recipe for disaster. I think you mentioned there that you know start small. You probably will have the answers. That's fine cry. Something fail failed again. It's not failure if you're learning from what you've just fighting basically that's learning experimentation so i think that might be a good framework for some organizations initially anyway looking at starting small the cost to controlling. You don't need mega millions to the start deniability product or anything at. Don't get still compelled sees if it's not working or repurpose reuse. What you're doing. What you're saying what. I find a lot of organizations. They don't know what they're trying to solve the problem. Eleven other organizations will say. We don't have a problem. they say. Okay we'll your problem might not be visible. What is your competitor thinking of doing with iot. Because i will be coleman no problem of yours later on so try and experiment. It's not a six month project. You're not gonna get return on investment within a short period of time. What you're doing is experimenting learning figuring things out seeing what works in the market. Unlike the just so many am viabilty that of command of things that people didn't even try to solve the just. They happen to stumble upon something on the work. You know that that's good. Also a big conversation these days. I am not on smart cities. So this where we get into the citizens so wakon from the business aspect but into society and how iot might revolutionize our lives as as citizens denote Advance about space. At the moment walk benefits we might see citizens from my ot or is that still early days. So those those are some of the projects that long term projects. We used to call them. So we always had these classifications you have the private companies and a medium to large enterprises that we loved work weight and and it was like pretty fast where we would finish show face to the prototyping to realizing what we want to achieve and then on the other side. We had a a long term projects that involved also working with with the government and in inst- advocates itution. And those were the projects that we would follow follow along. Let's put it that way for the simple reason that in any jar at any job that you work with with the government and became there so much of this compliancy different policies. And that you that you have to work around and it so and they are long term projects and one of them of course at that we all saw each telecom operator was working the last couple of years whether roll out of smart meters so that we all know about it and it was through to every country or every telecom operator had had a different use cases and on how much of them harry rollout and which which have been successful and why they haven't been successful at until it. The relation came at until specific date. It has to be roll out that it was It was basically put a little bit more pressure on it. And of course what what they all What all. It projects have having comment including the smart cities. it's about being more efficient about optimization. It's about the productivity. It's about being green. It's about offering new services. It's about making our lives easier so if you think about another transport or or end infrastructure so we all talk about you know. The scarce resource says the damage or how we can make our planet greener and of course cities are getting more and more populated their more people so more years of of the services and we are getting more busier and busier so nowadays of government for his as a project is. I wanna have all my documents. I can download them. So i never thought about going to some places at this collecting documents and having printed out and put a It doesn't make sense. You know the in the days that we live. So i so we. Of course our government institution so will will follow and the idea for me as is normal citizen while is to make sure that it makes my life easier and that i know basically this. Is you know that i see. There's innovation happening so it's not innovation just happening. The traditional companies or big company saw abroad. But it's it's happening as well as well in in in my city and you know again is is known as a smart city. constantly But it depends who you ask well. Smart city is a different spicy for you and smarter than and for our viewers is a completely different very different for for me. Who's living in vienna for such a long time. It's like oh of course that you know i. I know when the tram is coming. And i know that there is delays. And i want to have you know. Internet find my in my you know. When i'm traveling abroad this is this is of course. I'm not thinking i'm not thinking about it anymore. Or the traffic lights and the management and that they are getting greener and greener every year. It's of course you know for me. It's like yes that's it. That's pretty and for for some a abroad for some other cities. It might be very very different artists forward. It's a way forward. I think it's important to know to have us feel that we feel that we see the value so basically okay in a or cities moving forward. I see i see the value every day. I think that is i think Smart smartly concept is a huge area for businesses to help government swear business and government can actually play a part with the vendor ecosystem to i mean. Just look at any street. Main street and ninety city say one of the challenges that the citizens face here in the golden face where the costs no. How could we look at addressing some of this with some intelligence digital solutions. Some iot type solutions. I'm i don't think we'll take too long to come up with some of the answers. we know. Change can be difficult and can take time but again it's having those conversations. Technology is so available these days improve privately multi-month as as i'm sure these things look but it did something else in recently as well. I'm gonna agree. I though interesting presentation buffs titled star yesterday with iot. I think that's a great presentation title and tell us a little bit about what you mean by starting yesterday with with iot. It's it goes hand in hand with what you said about the change before we trusted technology the dissolution so it was a very much about change and understanding and that change is difficult if we. It's good to put ourselves in in our customers shoes. If i got used to it over the last couple of years that i have the same. You know pat when i go to work. I usually take that road. It's not like every day. I'm trying to new pattern every week or every month. It's it's realizing. I think what we what back in the days with start yesterday with with its was to start to have our customers to start thinking about it earlier before it knocks on your door and realizing that the change basically Look at now. We all talk about in amazon is taking our piece of pie here piece of five there. Yeah but we all knew that five years ago that it's maybe not in that shape and form but we knew that they are not going to stop and we said at the beginning business prophet so businesses do exist to make profit and to bring value to bring over new services and so on. So it's expected from this giants as world. They always come up with new solutions and they are at and they are not asking themselves. basically Should offer something new My competitive analysis. They're just going for it or any other companies and that is important for the companies realize that you know. There's something happening out there. There are companies in my industry. That are doing some some new intelligent thinks there. What do they do that. They do that through the data in our gathering. The data's but they are not in a locked in their room and just realizing okay. I know all the solution. This is what the customer needs or someone told me that the customer neither reports so they are not out there trying new things out and all these big companies they have problems that they launched and then they failed and that they bought companies and then they closed it. Because you know that's that's the way it is it's not on the market anymore but with that presentation back then it was about starts thinking about what is coming and not just you know. Lock yourself in in in the room. And say i want and didn't didn't work out tried as you said yourself to learn from it you know i. I've seen some companies who have started kind of failure nights or failures festivals and and. Some of them are really large companies here in in australia. It's not that they are. You know going out and celebrating failure that they do. But they're encouraging these transparency pens and being being open acknowledging. Okay if we're doing something we're trying something out. We are making progress. And let's acknowledged and let let's share share this with the bigger audience with with the other departments that they know what we are what we are working out. Because it's it's it's a collective collective challenge it's not like department is super successful. We don't care we just enjoy our success and the others are just like yeah. Look at nokia so we all talk about. Nokia is is an example. Today the morning. I had a workshop but there was a lot of talk about nookie especially you know the phone part where they went from the. It'll being over over sixty percent of the market share too. You know less than ten years. They went to less than one percent and now nobody knows about them so it can go really really fast. Yeah unless the changing today as you said the big players just doing it now. They're well-funded they can afford to. They're doing it without this fear of failure. I think order organizations need to try do things and try things as you said. Even these fail festivals are interested but i always look at when i think about iot in. This country has not faded culture because the love we learn from what we saw hasn't worked out. It's called learning it's on the job. Learning rotterdam specific of small babies learn by failing before they can walk the need to fall on then. They stopped falling as much in their learning from that new learning balance before you know they become walked from traffic and all the things that will require equipped with babies an iot as well just he said doesn't exist in isolation in an organization but also iot doesn't exist in isolation to not you mentioned data. They sold important regarding iot. Because the iot solution you can do come achieve something. So could solve the problem. Will you can amass a huge amount of data individual or the situation of being addressed. Amnesty analysis of that data them lead to odor business lines or opportunity renovation letter it's tonigh.t. Solution or digital solution or smart city service. But you don't get there if you don't have the data first of all and you don't get there if you don't allies the data understand data and do something with the data so i think i o t doesn't exist in isolation of south either would all digital services at needs them as well about would you share that view. Yes for sure. So i think back in the day so that the what is iot so we have one on one side. You have the hardware you have some sort of device you have the you know. The sim car that you have the the cloud solutions so back in the days when i was a telecom operator. Data was a crucial. So it's it's so neglected sutures okay. It's just a car then. Transfer the data and of course it works just like in my phone with that. You don't have these these connections so there's no this machine to machine there's not two and one of the things that i read today About that i didn't. I wasn't aware it. But i've read about knock a case with with the phones then They were in the b. Two b. business you know and they they relied on the on the you know the acceptance of the market Or or which products are which which phones more attractive with the consumer based on the data that they got from from their distributors right so they were distributed millions of our phones and they would get the statistics a dated. Have this relationship so they will be. There was speed to be to see so basically the link was missing and they they they unfortunately didn't realize that you know Disturbed that's where innovation happens. And that's where you get the data and when you get the inside out what the customer wants. And so i think we can. We can learn a pretty much a lot lot from from them and in the last five years at least there was so much about. Data date is the new oil and sunday's new currency. And if you have the data so what we realized as well so when one side of the data and as you said yourself as well the companies very often don't know what to do with the data so you have you have tons and tons of those data and just you know what how do why go around. It's how do i extract Th the value out of the of this and what. We have in in europe as well as data privacy and when you talk with the customer with the companies. They all get really an adult data. You know it's it's specific to the people it can be a little. It's a very tricky. It's it's very tricky. But what's important to realize that. Not all the data's especially with the machines especially with trackers or carson whatsoever it's not all related to the user so it's not get it's not taking or gathering any data from you know date of the bird or the name and thought it's just you know the position and it can be a how cold these are outside or whatever any that it's programmed to send it good to demystify. We have some some jobs you on on demystifying with the smart cities when you tell the people about the smartest first thing and with me as well comes the tv cameras. We all been watched. And it's like a big brother and we don't want that so there's a there's a lot of nuances in in between having clean and on time and know regular transport knowing where what and how to you know we are being watched and the government knows what we are doing in the their bore letters. The scare a lot of people operating within the jurisdiction of the eu gdp or by the missile most misunderstood legislations. That was put out there. Because as you said won't you understand it on your Data you know. You're clicking a lot of it if it was a car and telemetry about the car not the individual so you may want to see the brakes performing as they should under certain temperature conditions as opposed to walk. That means for me in the car to something. You know You're quite entitled to the benefactor of the ghost. maria. Probably a better braking system two years down the line. Because you know when when it doesn't fail something like that. I'm continuing on a lot of people do have concerns about data security and privacy. Now do you think in your experience. Those concerns debate addressed by the major iot platform providers in the ecosystem. We worried it. Will you have people who talk about how worried they are then going facebook and post everything about their private life absolutely today. Have a whole like you're worried about the smart city sensor capturing something about june that goes government than they know everything about you buddha's citizen you're quite okay carrying phone off in fact when you said loop says giving all your data to whatever whoever it is at the end of the day. Yeah the i think. There's a misconception there as well as a learning piece. But i think if you're an organization providing an iot solution it's probably good practice to try to educate your customers about what you do with the data much don't do and separated out and save data boat you personally. We don't look at data about might use a product as a ton of lies. We might use that to improve things. And we've been doing that for years. We've been asking customers for years. We're just doing it a slightly different way. What are one or two key lesson. Sorry go ahead now. I was just saying that you said your salad like educating people and unfortunately there has been some cases where the data was mishandling indifferent cases or where you had Some home Devices were where you they could attack your device and the but they basically could track it What you're doing and gather some information about you and so it's it shouldn't be like totally put aside. So i am sure that the company so for instance who are producing these devices have to make sure that they have it in in place and they they they they have thought about it before. Because it's a a what i've seen through my work is that the security's always very much left at the end because nobody really. Nobody likes to say what he likes. This topic it's just it's overwhelming and on and oral we. Don't we have the expert or we don't know this. It's it's too much so when it comes to for instance to hardware and i think that's it's these companies that are on the far front saw they usually make sure that they re they aligned with all the processes and so all the guidelines and and so that their products are top notch. But nothing can help you if you have a device very very cheap divided by a very very cheap device Or you have your firearm through and you use your standard password and then everybody can heck you everybody can can get into your home and do whatever it wants so there is as you said. Education is is very much the key. And and you know you can do so much in the background at in the forefront as i said if you don't change the password one two three four so then everybody can basically can do whatever they want and you can be protected on the other side as much as you like but onto or front on your point to come back and talk about that because it's so or not if you lose customer trust. You're probably lose. You will lose your likely to lose business and that could be significant. If you have the data breach that significant reputational damage. Find all these other things. People run a mile from the and there are so many case to these people could find the you know. They're cheaper security chips put into iot devices because they're cheaper where if did only spend hopeless sam's more pair chip they would have extra security. I know the law. You know if you have a million devices upstream million extra span. I'd rather pay them. Get the time reputational damage being the news. And i think i think businesses should think a little bit more about out as well but we spend so much money getting here as security is sold portent that we need to invest in our internal security. Make sure our partner security is up to a standard. I make sure that the security hardware that we put in our devices is significant enough. Not just the jesus thing. Gaza orion examples of those even those home heating devices but have been hacked into. I'm by hacking people. That access to the internal network. I'm to the internal network league access to letters business information money. Whatever it it's it's it's it's significant but the end of the day. It's a bad press story for that company but creative advice at the end of the day. You know any key lesson set us. I guess hard layered or some of the wisdom of hard gained over the last couple of years that you could share with our two key lessons so one of them is is is definitely about couch rate as we know country its strategy for breakfast so like say that and i learned that it was hard for me at the beginning working with the customers where you come with so many ideas and inside send how we could do it in the consulting consulting role in and taking them along along the way and i wish they would just shut down so it wasn't the fit so i think it's the digital natives pay back then everything's digital everything about each is so exciting and there's so much opportunities only saw or the opportunities and we come back to the changes you said yourself it's not about you know it's not about how fast i can run. It's also about how the customer so how fast they can run an end. What is what is their culture. How do they approach it. How do they see it and not jump into the solution so this was for. It's my personality. A lesson where i would get disappointed after like three months and realizing okay. This is not going. We are not progressing. And i gave them all the facts an older figures and all the information that i could figure it out and we are not. We are not moving forward. So i think there's a lot of here so it is especially as this gaining the trust from the customer. They see that you can help them support them. Along the way bring the partners work hand in hand. So there's there's a lot of days in a customer building relationship which is so important and shouldn't be an underestimate these where where it should be very much invested if you're coming as a consultant for instance if you're coming as a consultant to accompany so no matter how smart you are no matter. How many great ideas you if. They don't trust you if they don't want to buy from you so you can. You can forget it so focused on building the trust with your customers and of course for for the companies. It's it's so important what we realized what works best was when we were identified. Some of the you know used to call them evangelists or some some of the drivers of this change so because you can only influence one person at the time. So it's if you go to the ceo. He's always very much busy and he will agree when he sees the girl and and you can convince him in in different ways but you need people on the ground as well who will drive this change Day in and out at who will be you know after who will be calling you over the weekend. I try this out and it's not working and can you help me out or can figure out something new and so on so you need this. It needs to play all boats side. So it's not just convincing the who say go for it. Well dan as you need to find these people who are the change drivers who are working day in and out and he convinced dam and if you give them you know if you're supportive and if you There along along the weight and you can really make a make difference and you know one of the other things. It's always don't come with solutions if we are all claiming that you know that we are about change and we are experimenting and that we are about learning and it's okay to fail. I think in order to as well go go around that and not pretend that we all have this solutions that we all have figured out everything and it just it just you know the press the button and it all works out great advice to end on a few things you said look at the cultural aspect it is about change a little theme of building trust at all layers. You're thinking about the ceo. Have their buy in but have people on the ground as direct commanders the influencers because so many failures. I've seen case to these are the ceo had bought in and gave a lot of money down to the department to do something with but they nobody. There academic dr iot and anna seo came looking for what's on the trusting release. It was just more business transaction. Here's some money do iot. It wasn't here so resources. Let's see what we get a report back in success or make a few failures and tell me what you're learning that'd be success for me is. Ceo the report back to the board. We had a few people like a few failures. Come up with a new new. We find a few insights few learnings along the way. Don't call learning if you learned something from on then how The cohort of people that are driving an agenda is not is part of the solution or aggravate solution to get through our business silencer. Try something different like that. But if they gossip linked back dividing to the business potential opportunity all this comes of job opportunities cost of not doing something because our competitors we think are looking at this they are the you know that you know you don't know what they're doing but they're certainly using all these technologies because they know they're having something different as well i think i think that's a great insight into iot if we're having this conversation ten or fifteen years ago i would think the conversation will be more on the technology and what platform for us and all the plumbing. But it's great these days. We don't have to because of the solutions. Big cloud providers as taylor Companies like yourself are all parts of ecosystem that you mentioned so the business we can go to organizations like yourself from platte provided them say you are expert in these areas where expert in our market. We don't quoting all. We want to dress but we want us all to work together to figure something out. I think that's where the value is as you said in my ecosystem a free will be true. Value is yes and focus on and be with your customers be obsessed with your customers and the only way you can do. That is if you're close to them and you have the data in about So be obsessed with your customers and have their you know. Be ba loyalty. Customers have build build the trust and work along the way because no one knows you know marquee in two years. There's a completely new new player on the market and then comes with whatever this roped innovation. Then it's the whole of the other assistance but not doing anything. It's more scary than trying. Something out it's easier but in the short in the long medium and long-term it's going to be more catastrophic. I think i think that's the customer folks on the customer be allowed to go to be customer centric focus. I believe to achieve success. But i will take adela. Thanks for joining us. Sedan cvt talks hilltop. So thank you mark. Thank you everyone. A great pleasure. Thank you for joining this episode of topics. We hope you enjoyed this episode and walk away with a ton of actionable insights. If this is your first time joining us this is us extending a personal invitation to you to join other. It and business professionals. So please subscribe on itunes youtube or google play if you are struggling in any capacity in your digital transformation journey contact. We'd be more than happy to guide you and find you the right certification courses to help you manage the challenges. Modern businesses are facing. This was ccc talked until next time.

marco laughlin angel council adela metric miyoko Ag malvo co ccc school college university austria las vegas headquarters for instance hear roj corporation markle adela lucious europe vienna ninety city gardner brennan
The Subtleties of AI Implementation

CCC Talks

55:45 min | 1 year ago

The Subtleties of AI Implementation

"Welcome to CCC talks empowering it and business professionals in their digital transformation journey. Find all the latest tips tricks and strategies at our blog and resource center at cloud credential dot Org and our host. Ccc Managing Director Marco Laughlin. Hello everybody and welcome to another edition of CCC talks with Marco Lachlan on the cloud credential council now. Today we're joined by Muriel. So Urea Shepper who is an expert at apply and there's also a psychologist so thank you very much for joining us on. Today's podcast have you been here. Some real you describe yourself as a psychologist very interesting who entered the world of it and data and then got really passionate about artificial intelligence so listen tell us a little bit about yourself please. Yeah Yeah so studying the psychology quite a while back and then In two thousand seven I believe I joined Fico and the American Olympic Cirque Commpany offs among shoulder so fraud detection credit card transactions and I were fascinated by that that you could just based on transaction data In real time look a card and and make sure that wouldn't happen so I worked there for five years Had another son so a lot of the things that are happening now with machine learning Douglas for them already mobile business. It just wasn't big data and they I but it's actually what they already did And yeah I go about that and later I went to rob a bank And also joined there a data science team and start focusing on on and I think the the thing that I that I probably impassioned about that It with you have now both the mixture combination of it and human coming together and Bariseel. Beethoven yeah it feels challenging until exciting. How's it going to move really be all good for us or really negative or is it somewhere in between there is a lot of human psychology around implementing and working with these technologies and then dispatched around nit and data versus being recycled is fits? Perfect for me. I think that's it's a fun fascinating world when you put the world of it and psychology together because we are human at the end of the day were bringing in more technology. Do some of the human tasks that we've done what we've got to evolve into higher level of task orientation along with this. We'll get to that in a moment. We'll get travel banking a couple of minutes as well. But you're also an author so you've written book it's I mean. Where did you find time? The books titled Artificial Intelligence Inaction. Now I think it's only untouched. You can correct me on that but tell us oh. I got another request like why. Don't you do in English too but I don't have time for that this translation machines out there put it in and it will do a good job. I don't trust them. Yeah now. That's an interesting point. We may come back to tell us a little bit about what's in the book artificial intelligence and action. What have you covered there briefly? Yeah well actually just to take you back. Wow this originated is. Is that actually When I left rob a bank I felt that I had some experience in India's new feel or a I in companies and Got Some knowledge. I want to share because every time I came to new clients I I noticed that there is these tremendously high expectations of what a can do. And there's an Malaysia of hardly anything so it's completely not realistic. What what people are expecting and So I I I want to share it so I started creating a training program Oh about that. And then in November two thousand eighteen I gave that training for the first time an audit of like well. Actually this is all training is sort of like book each block. And it's raining. It's a check for as I went through when publishing agency and they have great win are twelve shits and then. I said well June. Nineteen very well so as if nothing else to do. We'll troll book in on top of it but I think I always is the for the first and only book now and it is just about sharing my experiences About what what is they? I explaining it in in in simple terms so that people don't haven't studied statistics today. Signed understand what it is Get a lot of examples of what you can do it and then help them get started to find their own business cases and validate if the ID they have Come up with Israel Listrik and taken all the right steps involved right people to move forward and create something which is success. Which means that you are able to create value and not just do an innovation project where they I which never entered into production. So which is completely useless. Yeah so what? I'm hearing here. Mariel is that the Dutch should have a lead on based on this information because there's not published in English yet so hurry can pull this in English Latin publisher. They do something fast. Overhang at this moment. We're on the list for manager. Buco the year twenty twenty so Knows he'll plastic. That's fantastic and I think what I'd be eager to read this or am I try. And try is because you're saying look this information from the coal face this information from somebody that scene at Rotterdam the theoretical stuff. And you start by sending. I mean your introduction hair was the expectation of organizations is high or the capability is low. I'm expect that and think my experiences sure we'll just start using an AI system on that will solve what we're trying to do which is not the way to to what was going to predict something which we have never seen before and then We've never predicted before. It's interesting our simple question. I'm probably because of the book because of your experience going to ask you this simple question. We'll see what the answer goes. How would you describe a artificial intelligence in simple terms? What is well? I'll I'll I always They use as you know I. It's like a if you look on the Internet you can find a twenty different definitions so I do have my own I like describing it as a a tool works so in a normal to walk you have a hammer screwdriver for etc and all these tools can do something And they you also have a toolbox within these two woke. There are all kinds of tools that tried to mimic eight four of you in intelligence and some can do something which speech others can do. Something with vision Others can do something Driven text or predict things et CETERA and So it's it's walks with all these tools and in order to get In a normal tube of something moving you need like a crossman or clumber And they are what you need. You need an algorithm and that algorithm can can do make make that the tool is going to work and that can be very complex algorithm Some neural network or something barrels simple if then And that that sort of like what how I like to describe. What's I I like that? I think it's simple enough. It's easy enough. I think you're describing water. It is as you said it it. It does. These things put a still got that level of craft required to it and then leading into the algorithm. Can I ask him? But then with the word algorithm what I that's also word that everybody uses but no what he has what it is but they have. Nobody dares to say What he's an algorithm actually a lowly that me out please so what is now so Can you say it? It's a way to come Even more complex from the situation A to B and it tells you the exact steps what to undertake but I I like to explain if more more easily is actually if you're going to cook something and the the goal that you want to reach is an apple cake for example and In order to get there you pick up a recipe and it says I take apples and cut them in pieces. Then take the sugar intake. Whatever a desert and by following all the steps in the recipe you end up in the end vita cake so you have a goal you wanNA reach and there's a description of how to reach that that is an algorithm and if you go to. I Ki- I you buy a new Covert or anything you get this booklet and leaflets and sending pictures what to do to come from These these spare these parts into a cupboard. It tells you exactly what to do to come from. A to B Denzel's own Algorithm Computers Day in with with computers. It's quite often also mathematical formula but also tells you which steps to take to come from H. That's an algorithm. I think I think that's clear. So we've gone from two Apple Pie and here made any of those links before this call. But it's clear very clear to me now. The one challenge with the ICA algorithms also algorithm. The pictures are fine. It's in my execution the algorithm nobody. Something broke or left over. But that's that's just in case now I'm GONNA ask him. How old is I mean? Is this a recent thing? Is it the last file now? No no no. It's more than seventy years ago. already started. Hey had Alan Turing already. Wondering why are our machines? Intelligence and how will rejoice methodist so? They're securing test which is still hanauer days. No We've what it. How it started was was not Ryan. Nineteen is determined self. I believe is nineteen fifty-six It was proposed proposed in the dark Mount Conference guys guys at that time only or sitting and they came up with the term artificial intelligence and the beginning years. Ever really trying to be Try if the machine could beat the human in gangs like What's the word it's not only chest but also with the the the black and white sort drafts? Yep Yeah so did they. Were trying to do that so they were trying to see if a machine would be capable to do something which for you and complex which you need to think etcetera etcetera. And they were very optimistic. They fall well within a few years before we get to the level of human intelligence While they were a little bit wrong And that's the old AI. And Google Session Day I and well we now see is completely different. Ai and What we're trying to do say seems to two thousand is not trying to do. Tosco needed are difficult for you. Know we're trying to make machines do toss which are easier. Us speaking Reading Seeing I I don't need to do anything complex to see I can do it. Simple you mitofsky. That are the ones that are most complex for machine. And that's what we're working on nowadays. Yep Yeah I think that's a big learning. I think for organizations on people that it's not new. You can trace back many years. You can look at the thought process from thirty forty fifty. Six years still apply to today. Well we have this newer technology to do differently. I think advent of cloud that gave us huge amount of processing power and all sorts of order technologies to do things different. And I think that's the key. So yeah it's it's actually. It's a couple of things. So it's it's it's a indeed the processing power that we have now which also cheaper than it used to be smaller And it's the the amount of data I mean if you go back to the eighties. What kind of data did we have? We didn't have sold them or you know we didn't do any online transactions you didn't have to data per se and so the thing is machine learning so even though we have some algorithms now that we're already created in house become used them because we just didn't have the data and the power and the fourth is indeed that the effect of the cloud making it able to have the processing power everywhere but also having all companies like an IBM and Microsoft putting all these sort of flight Hey I serve as the clouds so everyone can reach it and everyone can use it and you just going you to figure out how works so everyone is the democratization of Ai. Everyone can can get going If you're a kid if you're eighty if you're in Africa or a the Netherlands in there and I can use it I can see myself neural network with with a machine learning. I'm melody designed this and I'm not I called even program but I can train in rural network. That's simple so it's more accessible now. It's more accessible. You mentioned earlier work. You did with rebel bank and have to work with Shell and lots of other organizations since if we look at say Rabobank start with I mean. Why did they decide to use a What was her main goal or objective? At the time it was a couple years ago. I yes so it was in the beginning lawsuits. I'M SIXTEEN SO PRETTY EARLY. Actually and the year before that started the date assigned steam Because they have heard about trends of big data and and so we just sign what's called and There were just experimenting piloting all kinds of things and the same was with a so when I joined people sort of like the question So Muriel What do they? What do we need it for Go AHEAD OF COURSE. You had all the answers. Of course I didn't have the answer so Mijo but to understand what it is so I did a lot of self. You reading fizzes. Loads of conferences and Also starting to try out things start all kinds of projects with chat boards with Physical robots with text understanding information in text and and we had the opportunity to do so and And also to inspire people and tell people in your organization. What what it's all about so there won't be displaying few and based on also experience And also what we did in the project is. I really learned from the data team that they were already a year working when I got there and Also two years later nothing was in production. That's not why I want. That's not adding value. I if I do something I wanted to make it valuable. I want to have it in production and work and so with all the projects I did. I also made sure that every time there was someone and understood over going to do was willing to pay for it and I was willing to take it over once. The project was done In that way to guarantee that we could could end up with something. And that's quite often. What Mrs in a lot of these projects because it's the innovation department that starts with something crazy an reading fun but once it now for me. There's a piece of gold for our listeners. Insofar as maybe take it again and that you got somebody to not only sponsor it not just from innovation but so many sponsors pay for it but then own it after goes into production so it is so somewhat group is bought into it. What are the understand it or not to go into learning process with you to the development cycle yet? They're excited when they get it. And then the owner to deliver value going forward that to me. Sounds like a recipe for success for the apple that we spoke about. Yeah yeah no but it is. It is so that's that's also the psychology that's changed management. That's not mentioned. Yeah I was a new venture. It is the change management process. Which I think is back to your background as well. How do you get people to move and understand and adopt est of were for doing it the right way like that? I like that. Can I am so rebel. Bank just a few examples of how they're using it today at using more for fraud prevention for speeding processing claims. Any Taylor areas that are using it feet in shop more for for end users. It also internal purposes so under the one I recommend there was forty. It help desk for example and but also in the in the process of She did he Customer agility and you'll also see More and more initiatives On starting to use A Yeah Fella. All different departments and also within the HR Department for example. That has a Chief HR officer which is very Visionary I think and She Is really also try and see. How can we apply they In in a I in that area and that'd be very useful I think will be useful over time as we see now. I've heard I've heard you talk about something. Called a cell in relation to a center of excellence. Can you tell us a little bit about these terms on what they mean on what they do? Yeah I think it's the center of expertise of me getting Coley that way because The moment that I started working on these virtual team actually an annulment. Debbie started only three months later the biggest reorganization ever happens. Ed Roberts Books of course We had for like nine months. There was no manager in the team. So we decided Mykola Day. I tell anybody against you know okay. won't do these projects anyone against it. No so do whatever we wanted to a fantastic but now testing because that's why I did so many different projects and so many different parts of the bank and I learned a lot but I could also help the Organization for it. My biggest learning from all of this is that Audacity these months Of having all this fun and doing all these great projects we did get a manager and Also another innovation department older go to new manager and they sort of like okay but but this this is. Sally doesn't it doesn't exist me orchards They're doing all kinds of things but it's innovation every data and They were sort of like struggling all these months so fine we just went on. Nobody was really we go but in yet it was fine but Because my biggest lesson learned from dish was if you do something like this with with data you need to have someone at best interest of the organization to commit to it and endorse it because you are starting to do things we could change. Dramatically something with clients dramatic. Be something with employees. And if you don't have anyone into syllables Europeanisation understanding this and endorsing it. It will die. And that's that didn't happen because at the time there because I will there but then I decided to start my own. I left any died and now two years later things come back again. Yes I think but it's it's in. That sense does big learning. If you you work with these these yeah definitely don't have someone who understands it and is willing to to fully committed with a request on that later on later on by think for projects like this as you said. Our projects initiatives. Whatever they are somebody at the top needs to endorse it. Understand that get funding for it. We'll talk with that. Might be later on because if you don't as you said it will lose momentum later on but a challenge to a lot of organizations is in finding somebody to endorse it fund. It promoted probably because of lack of understanding what it could be or lack of understanding how can deliver value. Because it's not easy. I don't think it can be difficult because I just said you're innovating you're learning. You're developing your trialing. You may fail at certain things but I do like this. I approach to fail fail fast. Move on try something like what you said. It sounds to me like there was a bunch of chefs in the kitchen. That they didn't own didn't ruin. That turned up inside the cooking. Lots of different things. But there was ole decline. Of course. Yes yes and Ed was the big difference. And that's clients. That wasn't the case where was was where managers and What I learned is you need to have in order to really should be success. We need to a miniature about some got just because they are starting a project which likely is to just or is not going to give the result that you expect in moment one but still someone who says yes future. I believe in it and we need to fail maybe a couple of times but in the end if it is we will get it right and Yeah so for example with the trump will information that there was this manager and he said okay. I understand if you do this. Probably our customer score will go down for a couple of months weeks but hey we need to do this. This is the next step in our process of automating things and this so I accept them even though I get the end of the year My bonus will be based on on the customer section. But I believe we need to do this for the long run. I have the gods. I have trusted team and I give them the freedom to execute the way. Davis IS FAST AND THAT WORKS. But these are rare. Some good recommendations there. We're going to dig them out into a blog later on as you said finding the monitor with good to do. This is rare at the moment. But we need see more of this and change thinking I said take ahead of short-term hit today might be the best thing to do for medium and long term and I get you some form of competitive advantage. I'm there the things we need to look up which I think is different. And it goes into psychology of why we do these and how people perform and and deal with these technologies. I think can I ask in? Your view is a A disruptor technology. I mean. Do you need to be using a ought to be a disruptor in various industries today or is it and enhancing technology or is it a bit of both. I think it's a bit of both and what I What I actually see and I get more and more about is that He goes currently. I'm I doing an assignment at a new. She pelley in polity in the Netherlands V. I work for them and I'm doing They want to become more data driven of course and Talking with them about the I I just I it okay. Let's figure out what the situation is. Currently let's not do that because we think this is based on our expertise. The situation now. Let's get fact legend. Just get a dashboard. Get information about what's going on right now because if you don't know what's going on right now why do you want to be so So we're really focusing on that and then In in a couple of months or maybe years it depends how fast it goes on especially okay now. I know why what's going on and I understand why smell predict what is going to next year and so it's a next step and it. Yes you can always send yourself with the eye but if you don't know what's going on right now I don't wouldn't recommend this some tacit. I mean this is really good so free recommendations here. I'm I I like this. I'm going to take note of this later on before I do some. Bi to get to understand the the what's going on and to get to that question. Why then apply artificial intelligence to do something about that so before bi? That's a really good we're going to. We're going to do some work on that. I think we'll combine I so simple level it can be so bad at it is all sable if you just take a step back and try to translate everything in simple words if you and it also see if you understand what you're talking about. Yes yes thanks are simple. The problem is a lot of people are talking about things. They haven't got a clue as I said they say algorithms have a clue what it is they say. Hey I don't know what it is and if you don't know what it is you come come up with good at easing their yes. We'll see that with all the various technology especially all this new digital stuff thought. The first fundamental question asks what is this. And let's get a collective understanding as you said it could be twenty definitions of A. Let's understand what it means for us in this organization could be different for another one good and a long way. We hear a lot of talk about the singled or PA roebuck process. Now is there a link between oral and a or maybe tell us a little bit of both robot process automation on artificial intelligence? What's what's up. Yeah no well actually. I do know all about it. Nope because I've done it but at the same time as I started in two thousand sixteen the I there was another group of people just had our. It's interesting. Let's play around with it at the same time as I was doing my show. There was also initiative of three guys. doing something we'd RV just And in the time also went to a lot of conferences and he's conference role as RPM and as well as eighteen ninety percent. Rpa and maybe ten percent is so. Doesn't it started and so It's it's great technology because it helps to automate them or two menu will cost behind the computer. Stop where you don't really have to think about more move about your hands And I think that it's been very successful and delivered a lot of value for another company Because they're still a little manual a simple costs and I actually think that's An I ready fooled. That happening now too is that Rpa can be the enabler all the rule out of a company and why because Especially into large companies. That have been what I told they. I sell or syndrome expertise and they have been doing all these sensitive pilots nothing in productions over like what's the value at coastal notes. Money on these guys there you deliver on the other hand these guys it said. Hey Well let's simplify this process and well you know there were send people working on. Its now gold so six eight years. big big savings In the company. And don't be simple processes and daughter like. Oh well what in the simple prosise? There's a human who needs to make addition or needs to view documents and say yes it's correct or not defcon. Rpi Do do so. Well there's something I That is able to do that. Let's see if we can pluck ai into are also the RPA's vendors have seen this so they've come up with cognitive automation intelligence automation whatever they call it and I was Nico Manasian of RPI and Because these projects have been so successful it saves money for the company so the top of the organization is really happy these people in December of expertise doing that job they will Probably when these guys say well actually let's give it a try. They will say well. Let's give it a try. They've been successful in the false y. Not Now so move on while these guys in the eye center like ooh do greedy pig results so I think they will be neighbor day. I I think so. I said it seems to be a little bit easier to do. The robot process automation. That's a little bit more automation which is good used A. Maybe that's how you get a into an organization look or PA. I and with the mindset of if we do this right and get the backing will likely get the backing to do something with. But let's think about where this artificial intelligence might take oaths as well. Yeah I like that. Very interesting am alinksy where we go now over time. I mean we. We hear a little bit about this. We've we've done. Some surveys are recent global digital skills or looked at the people side regarding all things digital one of the things we looked at. Was You know the fear? Is there a fear? Among people in their job set. These technologies will replace their jobs so for an example. Do you think people should be afraid? That will replace our jobs or are we looking at this to wrong. Way You know could lead to Might replace some jobs but it creates higher value jobs for people to do because the base that they do do we looking at the wrong way. should we fair it or should we embrace it because of the potential could lead to? I think we should embrace it. And because What I've seen so far and I also believe that if you're starting in Delaware you are most successful if trying to find a use cases where people have too much work on their plate. There's just high stress levels. They can't do two jobs and If you can take away to the more sinful thoughts from them that's also machines are only good at and these are quite often also that the questions or two toss that come back quite often if you take take stress away from them and there are more than happy to embrace Disney technology because it actually helps them and gives them the chance to do more advanced work or more intelligent where or spend more time with their clients. for example And so and I don't think it will replace complete jobs it will replay certain thoughts in Georgia And so it it will just give more space in the end If it does it dumps more yet. maybe five ten years If there's really goes on yeah maybe then then there will be less people needed to do specific tasks so yes there will be people at risk at also with automation with the RPA for example. So it's not only is also in other technologies so yes there will be people at risk on the other end. We will get new jobs to the question is will. The people will lose their jobs. Be the ones that are able to reeducate and do these new jobs. And that I'm I'm worried about But yeah the the only thing what what you can do is make sure that everyone becomes aware of what's going on with RPM with ai with all these new technologies for Industrial Revolution. That we're in that you are aware of it and that you help them educate and Prepare and if you don't want to do that. Yeah don't don't look weird if your job is gone at the moment but it's not something happening now or in in fight here but yeah in the long run. Yes in in countries like the Netherlands. The population's becoming older and older and we don't have enough. You as workforce so you probably will need technology to keep up with the level of how we produce and surface. Everyone so probably needed it is we. We find it interesting. Technology will evolve. We've seen this in manufacturing years ago. A lot of job displacement because of machines. I commend did a lot of the manufacturing but out of thought developed a services industry. Now out of this. I think we're developing some kind of knowledge industry where we get the AI to do what you said the more routine tasks on. We're in the middle of this. We call it the fourth industry revolution. Whatever it is where there will be job. Displacement they think and again from our survey we found that organizations I think are now looking today and into the future for people that can acquire new skills quickly as one of our critical findings as opposed to coming in with skills that will last him the career. I think those days are gone so I think it is incumbent to think about today and then the next five years and in the long run what does that mean to individuals as employees as people to stay relevant in a workforce that is being changed because before and I think if we look back at history it will tell some of the answers there as well we still have jobs and and what it is the point that but the first thing is that people need to be made aware. That's what's going on. And that's where already is a big gap. As a moment. A lot of people are not even aware. And if you're not aware you calm prepare and and one of the in the Netherlands Recently We started an initiative which is called. I am digital and I'm one of the trainers there as well and we are trying to accomplish. Is that we want to Ed Re educate or health reeducate Over million professionals in the Netherlands In the coming three to four years and so we create a whole program with where people can come sites but also an appeal learning tracks to make people aware of what's going on what's already technologies. That are going on. How does it affect you your company and what? How would you want to re educate yourself or get more familiar with in to stay? Relevant buddies question people need to ask in every sector from Accountancy Lawyers Doctors Energy whatever everywhere and and yeah and that's not happening enough there's too many people are unaware what's going on around him. I think that's the. Im digital program sounds fascinating. We're going to look inside a little bit more. I hope more countries do that as well. I think the key points that you said all this is we're talking about and Technology. It's not just the technology sector impacted by Job. Displacement of change everybody. I think it's uncommon. I also think about that. Can I ask him so so we said would I were doing. We need a lot of data but with data concert privacy and protections and solve so how orgnisations addressing the requirements regarding data privacy and protection. Because there's so much state announced. I'm sure it's not just a place it's source it's a lot of data a lot of different repositories. How are they dealing with? Some of those data protection challenges won't say issues. Let's say challenges How are they giving were that? Well I think the fact that we have the data protection. Ah Now. Since this is two thousand eighteen. Wasn't it made to eighteen or something and these people are aware. There's something frightening to see saying. There's a lot of were more awareness than two years ago. Now what to do? And they're spreading the officers and their procedures for data leaks and air being so I think it's becoming more people more aware of but I think there's another question Which is more interesting now is data. I always say there are three things when you start a project or free things to do One is you need to off are able to do it. Second thing is are we allowed to do it comes into play but the third thing which is important? Do we want to do this? So we ethical question and So I it was more a lot of attention for data privacy and now do you see a lot of attention from the European Union of European Commission and all kinds of other institutions all around the globe about ethical guidelines. So do we want this. What does he in fact in the long run are biased? Are We just excluding people? What are we predicting this Is this good and I think that's an and There's a lot of guidelines for that but there's not enough attention yet for that in size companies and I'm especially As I said now I work so I'm not doing projects in in the government space and So I I see a lot of different things going on and I'm bit shocked many about the awareness and You know ignorance multiple worth an awareness subjects and people. Just do things without thinking it through and and that's all turns me. I think it's a lack of awareness I think is is is what you're you're coming out there. I think that's the trickle special. It just never all these questions. Nobody else sees questions to them. And so you can't even blame them. It's but it's yeah I we. I think we do generally have a culture of you know if I don't ask the question you know I don't expose something we don't know about as well so we've got to pass because of privacy and protection of people's data is. I said it's on at least in the EU the EU agenda on a global scale comes down to trust if if organizations lose the trust of our customers because they mishandled their data. Whether it's from a or it's from backing leads reputational damage and loss of this kind of very very severe where companies are still a little bit behind them. I thinking but it is. It is changing this changing very interesting. We're coming up to the end but what we normally do at this stage is. I'm going to do some quick fire questions with you right so I'm just GONNA put out a few statements. We'll see how you want to tackle the okay these to be. Berg is a over hyped. What do you think tastic R. Chop Books Reducing the need for staff from client services for example service in contact centers? Do we see that happening? Yes I think they will Be of use and but not as they will take over to the high volume simple tasks and questions and their leave the more complicated work to stuff. Nicole centers. Exac. Follow on question to that and this is from personal experience. Having recently used a couple of chat bots to deal with some customer service challenges I had to report our chat bots doing a good job in general or are they deployed. Let's say inefficiently I think in general. They're not good enough because you need to know because one of the thing is When you take you as a company if you want to chat walk unique a very good understand how technology works so what kind of precious can use it for and if you so these can be used for high volume simple questions in very small domain so if you have lots of different questions being asked by customers in many different domains go get started or create a chat bots which is very specific and then also user understand that you can only off about how to return a product and not about anything else so put it on the web page where it's about father returns and nothing else. Yes so you need to also dare. It's psychology you need to understand that. What is the user expecting and make sure that the boss makes clear to the user? What is being inspected of and also understand? People do not read so people are also not that intelligent so you can all kinds of words and things there about what is in also say. I'm the Virgil agents and then author f seen it intestine relationship. Am I know talking to union? While they're in big letters I whispered to agents. Yes so it's very hard people hard to deal with the machines but the trick is for is to make it work that you understand you win and make it work. So that's a human human machines. Cooperation goes well. Look to make it work. I think that that's really good now. Have just by the by. I'll talk one thing that just I just always used to say. Never they've never ever let any of your developers right text that is going to be answered by someone who can read and oaken. Rice texts it. Confrontational developers have great time for developers to hear that developers never ever right the first book. You can't do leave it somebody else. We'll get somebody else to there. You go develop chapel forest. But here's what we want to say. I love it now as I said by the by because I had some experience the last couple of weeks with some chop box which were terrible. I'll tell you after the call who that was you may offer some consulting services. Sounds like they're going to need 'em ask you. Real is a journey or destination. It's a journey. It's a journey and it starts as I said it starts with the I mean data getting it right understanding it and then moving to more advanced things and yeah so he's joining now using a Will cost your organization a lot of money true or false false okay. And he had it. I think it's because if you If you if you find the right business game and you understand how you can reach it you you you. You have the data available You can do it and you don't meet Munns amongst of High costly data scientist Your company if you're smart about if You can get it for cheap. Yes so basically we all these startups and and only still civilities on on the cloud with with all these different than theirs offering this sort of like cocody services which are already there so what you need to know that these existing you need to be smart about it and you need some guys or girls in your organization like play around with technology like that. Oh exactly yeah. Another way of kind of rephrasing might be. Don't look at it as soon cost. Investment Look at how will deliver some value from it and it changes dot conversation away from losing money you're costing money to live in L. U. And it's yeah yeah and also like what what I did. I did some Virginia Shell and we were I The new technology and We were getting these descended into like hourly rate which like what. Okay specific knowledge. What I did is at Moma one. I said okay. We have some guys in India. Let's put them on the team and they will be learning on the job so obstacles once they were able to do with themselves because they learn from these expensive consultants and now they have these this cheap resources in house so make sure you don't you're not dependence of of external consultants but build up your own skills and find the people who want to learn these skills because for sure have an IT department which every company has there are guys who are playing around with that stuff at home. I want to absolutely yeah. I'm fond and elevate them so. Use the consultants maybe tap into their knowledge as a short term way getting into your organization that way you keep in house and develop it and develop people nuts what we want as we're saying we want to develop this new technology to do new jobs a new roles but we have to do that. I think it just came back to that may not be seen as a cost if you sell it right. It's an investment. I know investments. Come from different bullets or money book. It's or whatever than the operational cost of your top into those goods and that's another. That's another call entirely altogether two final questions who owns to project in an organization. Could it be see? I oh the CEO CFO. Could it be any of those any recommendations there? Should it be at that level? Well there should be endorsements at the level they should understand what it is and understand how to What it entails to do project like this the ownership shoot me with the person who is going to happen benefits off the two sometimes. That's the person who said I wanted. I'M GONNA take care of it once. They're in production. I'm going to maintain it and whose money in it and I'll take the rich from toxic on in some cases that's some kind of business owner as you said I hate your. That could be a line of business that could be somebody facing the service desk manager with a chap butter something like that until you find the right owner that will that will do it. But haven't from C. Suite final question. Mariel Agile is better than waterfall for managing the introduction of a into an organization. What do you think how do you feel about? Well I would say in principle I agree. I love the adult trump's. Because you work you do you feel and you can start something new but We've actually done a comparison of different folks and With two different vendors one came in with the agile approach and the other came in with the Waterfall Approach. And we were. I like older waterfall. How old fashioned. Why the hell do they go? Hey it's rate taking if they want to find In the end The will unfold for the project was way more successful why they had done this already. Twenty Times they knew what to do. They said first. We need to do this. Then this takes so many weeks so we do watchful the other one has never ever done a project so they were much better do edge out because they didn't have to do a perfect so if you know perfectly well what to do go to fool if you're still trying to figure out as a perfect so I so yeah. It depends on the situation. You'll have to say that that's gold. We're going to do more. We're GONNA ride a little bit about that because I agree with you. I think it's used a method that's appropriate to the situation. So sometimes it's waterfall as a great example. Here we'RE GONNA USE. We're GONNA use this somehow as you said this company did it twenty times. They had their approach hair. It was it was in this old fashioned method which actually succeeded with the new folks. Use Agile because there were inventing it as they went along. So where'd you get the result from? I think that's fantastic answer. I think that's a great ending now. Muriel we're GONNA finish any final words on how I can continue to change our lives and business any final thoughts questions to set you up for that. One is going to change our lives our business. Just an example. Maybe you know our lives going to get better because of a I just get more complex to introduce more. Data challenges are businesses going more and do more. He's going to make our lives more easy and but I don't have a clear answer. It there will be supposed to do and there will be negative. And that's the that's the situation. I mean If I for overlooking my kids in in a way they are so eas since they were born they are behind the tablets that they actually do need to to write anymore because they seek to machines but yeah it'd be a lofted recall right anymore or is it just very good on the other end. I'm constantly Gore with them being on these machines to get them off Well it's a good thing that things I the thing the coming couple of years we will see small changes and We will accept things things and Yeah in the end it will take a flight. It's not. It is unstoppable. We won't stop this this this just developments and it will become smarter and smarter this a I if it's all good I don't know we keep very happy with it and others will. Yeah maybe have terrible. I think that's that's as far as we can answer. It's as far as we can see as you said it's it's it's a balancing. Let's see what happens. Okay yeah sure shepper. Thank you so much for joining us. Today it's been an eye-opener we've got some really good no gets today am and look forward to talking again. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for joining this episode of CCC talks. We hope you enjoyed this episode and walk away with a ton of actionable insights if this is your first time joining us. This is US extending a personal invitation to you to join other. It and business professionals. So please subscribe on itunes youtube or Google play. If you are struggling in any capacity in your digital transformation journey contact us. We'd be more than happy to guide you and find you the right certification courses to help you manage the challenges. Modern businesses are facing this was CCC talks until next time.

CCC Muriel apple RPA Netherlands India fraud Mariel Agile Google Ed Roberts Bariseel Beethoven Israel Listrik Malaysia Managing Director Mijo RPI Fico
Mastering the Cloud: Pitfalls and Opportunities

CCC Talks

51:17 min | 2 weeks ago

Mastering the Cloud: Pitfalls and Opportunities

"Welcome to ccc. Talks empowering and business professionals in their digital transformation journey find all the latest tips tricks and strategies at our blog and resource center at cloud credential dot org and now our host ccc managing director marco laughlin. Hello everybody and welcome to. Ccc talks with margaret lachlan mcfadden council. Now you're done by by. Elaborates was independent business owner over developer a mike an nba half and planned finding someone for journey some ccc puffs. Thank you very much for having me. It's it's an honor. Banks with their clothes gets a pretty close. I usually don't even use it to when i When i do anything when i present i. Just say hey. I'm berry you know when i got married. My wife's name is actually hanan so we made a stupid mistake to not take that as our last name which you know because we do everything english. We work in english and we always have to say hello. I'm barry low breaks and everybody's like what are you saying. So yeah usually i just go by my moment or as you're burying and you know people. That angle azure valujet very prolific love and work on there. So tell us a little bit about yourself what you're doing the digital world. Yeah i've I've started out as a developer. Always very interested in technology. Actually if i go a little bit more beck. I got interested in technology. Because i was always interested in things like electricity and how things worked so i used to just open things up. Wasn't always able to put them back together but that doesn't matter. I'm just interested in how things work you know. I'm a puzzle so moving on from there. I became a software developer which is basically also solving but then for companies for money. It's a at some point. I was being paid to actually do that. And i just got bitten by the bug. You know you just type some texts on screen you press a button and then something magical happens. You know a user get see a button or has some value or if it's really cool something happens in the real world like i dunno. Light turns on or off for something more useful than that you know so that was very cool and i've always loved that's and from there. I grew further into roles like Software architect and also into more political roles as in. You can be author architect. That is very handsome. But i've also had software architect roles where i wasn't where i was just mostly busy creating diagrams actually Trying to Get everything out of the way for the team to be able to do their work. So just dealing with politics from all sorts of other teams at might or might not also have architects and things. I did then from a freelance role. Because better tivoli early on i I became a freelancer. Because i started out in a consultancy company and then i thought you know what i can do this myself as well you know. I know a lot of companies. I can probably sell myself a you know. Worst case scenario. If that doesn't work. I can always go back to work somewhere else. Which is not ideal but that's in the software industry that's basically the worst case scenario. You can always get a job which is obviously very privileged position to be in in most industries. that's not the case but in our industry We still have a huge shortage of people and demand keeps rising because still software is eating the world which means that everything runs on software from your Washing machine which just got a new washing machine. Now it's online. I have an app for my washing machine. Which is insane to you. Know everything that you do on your computer and everything you do on your phone. My watch also has lots of absolutes. It's insane everything has apps which means that everything is software which means that for all these things we need people that write that software and there aren't enough people to do that so we are in the extreme luxury position that we kind of always have job especially for good at it. Then we have a bit of experiencing in this fall so yeah. I've been going through as a freelancer. And too i never really had to i. I've never been anxious to not get a job. And maybe you know the outta work or something known from being a freelancer which in my case meant showing time for for money. Basically on a one for one basis being an interim employee in many cases which a lot of freelancers do. And there's nothing wrong with that. Absolutely not but i wanted something more sustainable because when you trade your time for money that means you can't scale because i only have a certain amount of time to spend so i wanted to built on things like content created a couple of books i now create a a podcast which doesn't make any money by the way but it's just fun to do and i've also created lots of courses online courses for companies like parole sites and those things scale because people watch those courses while i'm not working on him. I just work on them once. I put them up. People can watch them. And then i can go on and do other stuff. That's things scalable so doing debts. And then now additionally with consultancy to just add on means that i have a lot more freedom in my time and i get to choose a lot more where i spend my time so very happy with the results so far. Let's see where it gets me into future. Well as said we don't some research on guests like that meteo quite prolific acting geiger battery as a foothold. There you know the formula one sure freelancers worked for yourself. The longer you do it the last time you will be going back to pursue overtime book. You go with which you mentioned there. I think's interesting work that you're in harvey software development as well that we don't have software developers must isn't because so many companies now require software is he said software striving everything in the world in the because were not true the various education systems or is it because people don't the novel are graduating into the industry or or reason i think it's It's all of the above. Basically so demand is too high to keep up and we are simply not producing enough people not in schools. I think the school system is still a bit old school. But also driving to people to educations that the end up in software development career is is difficult Especially there's lots of men like if you look at My podcast for instance. I really tried to be diverse. But it's really difficult. It's mostly and mostly white men which is a problem. It's difficult to get Women and minorities into software development. For some reason it's it's not really clear to me why that is It's also a cultural thing of course as we get our upbringing you know. Two men are technical and women are nuts which really not true absolutely nuts but that it is a cultural thing and it's a bias if we all grow up with so it's a very difficult thing to to turn around so i i guess that's part of it but then on the other hand. A lot of companies still require software engineers to have a formal software education so computer science education. And that's also problem because there's lots of folks that Teach themselves because there's lots of resources online now you can do a boot camp you can do. Lots of pro side courses there's Microsoft learn lots of other companies have similar things. You can teach yourself to code online. You can do. You can have an online internship and that's all fine but that doesn't result in a An official degree and that means that some bigger companies some more old school companies. Don't hire you. So we keep them running into shortages but if we would open that up more than i think we were to have a lot more very talented people that can actually enter do software industry. The i think that's very infected pointed to root metaphor completely different to thirty years ago i think even by development america language or potato line with maybe couple on the rescue learns is went along based on. But you have but the other thing found is interested in your when we teach the life of it get a science or language. We tend not to teach certain too much on the business affect of while development county for an organization competitive advantage for times market. All these things are even just say market. Us competitor now developed not for the dishwasher or the appliance. New dolts. you losing out the You know and so the allowed. The business oversight having in the software world orlando software developer the details from komo's technical perspective or are the opium of their views to be more business business. Focus our is this now. I think there's definitely a gap in there Especially if you look at the shelf. Thought developers for instance. They obviously focus on the technical side. They need to be capable technical the technical skills but then they often lack the business overall view of wide. A that you're doing actually valuable to a customer and you see lots within companies as well. They have teams of the clippers and most of these developers Just have their heads down. Do their work but don't really know what their business even does their companies making money and how defend it they are creating is actually making a difference so if we would focus more on that and it can be a responsibility for companies as well to educate their employees to maybe spend some time. I don't couple were. there's a month or something to take the people and it's not only for developers but for everybody works at the company to take them out to wherever the actual thing that they do happen. That say maybe it shouldn't affect for yourself and take them out to see what actually happens on the floor what the actual end result is and what a customer does with it because that creates actual context for what you're doing there because maybe you're creating some forms over data finger some arbitrary collection of data that you. I don't know it's customer data. That does something and then we put it in this pipeline and some team does something. We did that at the end. There's always somebody that has a product or service and that that gets some value from it. And if you don't understand what that is and how your company makes money from that then you don't have the context to make the right decisions. You do have the context within your very small area of interest and maybe your architect says while you know we need to do this. And this and these are the boundaries within you can Basically coleraine which your technical skills you do your best. that's that. I don't think that's what you want as a as a software developer. At least i wouldn't want to. I can understand it. Some people just want to do their work you know and they just go home and then that's fine but if you get a bigger context of what you're actually doing and where you can provide more value day you can also provide more value to your company and i guess that ultimately results also for yourself in more satisfaction in your work and more value to world and eventually it more opportunities within your company outside of your company that from true pinkett blue moved commoditisation of cloth developments on people do for development. And i think it's also heavily involved with all microsoft azure and a fiery. Those little army east technology mail tells a little bit about some of the challenges or live. The organizations are facing with something a day after they were changing the challenges. People face. something like that if you look at Azur wasn't better in two thousand and eight and now we're in two thousand twenty so it's all relatively young. Still you know we we we now. Shane software world file. That's a long time of things. he's mature disastrous jewish. But you know it's really not it's just it's twelve years is nothing really but if you look at asher it is a like you said it is huge. It is so big. It's the same like amazon web services for instance and clowns getting there as well. They are very big. They offer many many services that do all sorts of stuff like as your has. I don't know one hundred sixty different services and products within the whole as sphere that all sorts of things now the challenge that companies usually had wedneday We're going to cloud or were thinking of going to the cloud was hey this is not safe because now i need to trust microsoft or amazon with you of all my data and all my application. I don't wanna do it. Because i know that these four guys that sit there in my server room i trust them. I know that we've been to dinner. I know their wives and kids and so you know they're they do a good job. They day stay late and if something happens. They always. They always do that. I trust them more than i trust. Microsoft that was. I don't know up until five years ago. It was the biggest problem. But i think basically due to marketing efforts that changed a lot and also because of lots of for data breaches that smaller companies. Now have it's much more prolific and it gets on the news you want. Wanna get on the news with a data breach because set me. Your company is in big big trouble muster a lot of money and let's let's reputation so i think many companies now if realized well we better trust something like microsoft to handle our data and our applications for security because these guys have scale. These guys have been working on these problems for decades not not only went into cloud but you know. Remember wholesale for instance. Msn all that stuff that those are also cloud services. Microsoft has been running at For a for ages for decades lady. So i think companies have come around to the notion that Trusting big company which your data is a better at least for now than doing that too old keeping it all in your own data center and having your own team deal with it because you simply can't keep up with the changing pace of technology and you don't have to tools for it and don't have the data for now that's one. I think the biggest challenge now is to breadth of services so how many services there are so when companies come through the cloud. They don't know where to start really. They're like well. What do we do i we. Because their application landscape usually is huge and complex. They might have hundreds of virtual machines running windows virtual machines. There are many many services that our web applications desktop. Applications database api is all sorts of background things and legacy windows processes running all over the place. What do you do. I and where do you get the value from. And how do you make sure that you don't start paying way too much for just being in the cloud. Whatever vendetta. if you've done so what usually happens. Is they start. By lifting and shifting applications or virtual machines to virtual machines in the cloud. Show you change where it runs. Basically and that means that it's you you get a lot of value from that already. Because azure and aws social and google cloud. They all manage that vm. So that makes they make sure the thing keeps up and running. They have their availability and that is way better than your own data center. And i'm sure your own data centers is way cool and you've got your stuff sorted but you just can't compete with scale and efficiency of these big players. They have centers all over the world. They have all these experiences with cooling electricity redundancy all that type of stuff security physical security of the data centers logical security. You just you can't do it yourself. That's used to be the first thing that they do. And then after that the big challenge is what we do next is this good enough it doing our reflector all of our applications and get that application out of there put it somewhere in a different service which surface shoot. We take it. All out and create micro services applications. Isn't it a challenge. So a love organizations in their driven by plaque for the pro tour and kobe dune lima through louis as you said obligation the liens into the cloud on now having to challenge twelve max insofar as the you know to do all these things mansion shouldn't really approachability been valuable moving into the cloud. Your relation though. Hey if he moves of injured in the next slept. That's all for a moment that that's around if we do. The saints micro services are refactoring. Whatever he wants to do let's understand. Water goes for the organization from the value of the first of all before we go on the technological jerry. Each week back up occasions absolutely. The first step is usually driven by a. We have a our data center on service somewhere and now we need to buy new ones in a couple of years. What do we do so when you come to that decision than usually somebody says. Hey we need to go to the cloud because we're not. We don't want to invest in another data center or not a hardware there which doesn't make sense from a financial perspective so that's the first value that you get already and then the next value indeed. Then you should start actually thinking about. What do you do next. And whereas the next value in indent what often happens is unfortunate. That set. The i don't know either to cto or The higher ups in the technical organization. They are that they've gone to conferences. They've seen all the cool new tech and they wanna do all the hip you face because it's cool and also they want to keep their technical staff happy and challenged which cool new things which understandable but usually doesn't provide value so for instance. If you have an that's working fine. No it's running in a vm. Or something totally fine. But then there's sometimes little benefit especially if you don't change your application there's little benefit in getting their application out there maybe putting it in a container cutting up into micro services into an all sorts of stuff to adds complexity what you said. I don't know make that to virtual machine highly available. Make sure to use all the power of the cloud to keep their things secure as cheap as possible scalable and able and that's it. Don't touch it anymore. Leave it there and then for new stuff you can think about using all the new things all the new technologies and that's what he added value is because then you can start using for instance these Software as service ai services. That's a convert pre-trains Models for instance to do I dunno text to speech to do Image recognition all. That type of stuff. Then you can start thinking about that as new services that you might add on to already existing applications like i don't know chet bolts that you add to a website or something like that that adds value to whatever you already have. It mean that you have to change your existing thing completely and you know muck it up and at complexity there. But that's that's a common mistake that happens and it's understandable but that usually ends up in a year long project that costs way too much and might even end up in a complete rewrite. Because you know it wasn't really feasible. Anyways comes back on the department or jackie folks at the end of the day. Go the will or the blame. We'll come back to them or well. We didn't get the value. Santhal won't be factory factor those visions to ahead for for the all a league value to technology. Is there use of play that disaster eight yards and although the into generally y you have rather refactoring everything for cloud so made further allows on the existing arcadian application. Have certainly for anything. You go to cloud mentality while facet can we get here and then both play the the rest of the other talented bathing i guess. People with azure weebelow below technologists from the last thirty years or so the mayor with add more traditional model of it in our in the cloud model out of the embraced it. Finally they still holy out. Is there a bit of a challenge on there. I think we're getting there. I think especially while. Let's say five years spec especially ten years back you saw big divide between developers and to. I like to call them. Pros an hour days and my yourself devops professional or or something like that operational professional but back then there was a big divide where developers were keen to get on the cloud because then they could use all the new and latest and greatest things which basically meant they had to program less. Because most of the plumbing would be done for you and so you can just focus on the actual application adding value. Where idea people. Obviously they would then Give away responsibility. So things servers that they used to manage that they wouldn't have to manage it anymore or a database that you would be database administrator off which means you all they you spent on Improving performance watching the logs. See what happens all that type stuff all done for you but clouds cloud is levered. Which left him in a position where they fall. Well what about me. Am i going to lose my job now. Do you even need me anymore. Or the answer is yes. Should we definitely donate you because in cloud also things need to be deployed but your tasks. It's just difference your work shifts instead of managing the infrastructure and you can still manage infrastructure because you still have virtual machines and torture networks. Ip address all that stuff but instead of managing that on a ferry detailed level down to the server itself you let part of the stack be handled by something like as your or amazon and you as infrastructure professional. You focus more on delivering value for instance on creating scripts that chen can deploy. Let's say the the development environment or a testing firemen or out domestically without you creating virtual machines by hand configuring them and make sure that they have all the bits and pieces on them. You can you script all that stuff now and you can put that in In a deficit vitamin flake. An actual treasure in. There's lots more of these types of environments where you can then take these scripts and half those deployed automatically then get your application built and compiled out mentally that deployed automatically and that whole pipeline is also something that it pros wooten manage can be very complicating. But it's lots of new stuff that they had to learn. But i think now we see that That they really came up to speed also because they had to lots of companies have gone to the cloud regardless of what the it pros fat which means that you either learn and play along or find another job basically frayed. It's reality of where we are learn. Who said played on ghetto law or find. Another job was not another job is being moved to the cloud as well as eventually all displaced though you're going to learn and get along with up the role. I think it's more talented today but we do have two backs. Because the side of the technology is so short essays years ago could get a career for four years before the next technology amid as you said was in agar beta instead of eight moving like today with the hundred and sixty or so applications and all the other services are available najer but thankfully we have to do that in the role go solve Pleaded developers guy to microsoft faster photo enough in about plan. Better coal together and shave faster with eiser. Your these banks now really. Isn't that simple these days or is there a patch ship five simple if you think about it from a high level than yes you know as your and also the other clouds they all make our lives easier because they just managed more of the plumbing basically like i said they just do all of the low level stuff that nobody wants to do. You don't want to manage to vm. And make sure that it's up and running you just want to deploy to figuring and let the platform worry about the type stuff. So so i think it it is. It can't be that simple But obviously there's lots of details and there's for instance the detail of costs as well because all of that works fray well But then you know you get a credit card bill at the end of the month and it can be extremely high. That's also a challenge into clouds as well. Because you know things you pay for fix that run. You always done that ten you you already paid for the servers and you know so you already spent your money but now you spend that type of money you smear it out over year every month you pay a bit more and if you are unlucky one of your developers for instance spun up a cooper netease clusters somewhere left running and then it's become extremely expensive very quickly so it can be very simple. It depends on the plans that you make like we talked about earlier. It's very easy to fall into the trap that you just Cloud defy your application sure existing infrastructure because it school. And it's a fun thing to do but from the top down from the cto co even down the needs to be very very clear strategy and to vision. I vision of. Where do you want to go with this whole digital transformation as in. Where do we want to be in five years. Do we want all of our current applications. Still be up and running for insist maybe wanted to prune dempsey what we actually need. Maybe you want to automate other processes. That aren't automated right now. Maybe weekend and you know replaces some of the people by automated processes which obviously is not a nice thing to do. But that's just how it works nowadays to make business more efficient it is. I mean sam am factoring for your a made. Factory of most products will people have moved into services now they re broadcast spoke about narrow. Maybe services migrate to the -nology on into knowing how loan works ali care about pint. The fittings alexa laughable migration was now from from services into this knowledge economy grim by that could be paid about. Should we should be all into to whatever will be. We have into Technological or digital. John's we face. Yeah totally agree so he will be the people that know how to tie all the things that already work together. So we are sturgis. Integrators basically api in readers and eventually what. I used to do as an architecture. I just draw box so this is surface a and this service. They talked to each other and the information flow goes that way. Maybe at some point that diagram will be just deployed to the cloud and then they just actually works. And i don't care how it works as long as actress integrated that and know what the value is that comes out of that integration. So that might be the future and you see that also in the low code platforms for instance. Microsoft has the power platform where business users they can just throw together an application that can just drag and drop buttons and text fields and stuff and that just works without them knowing how it works with them programming even and that can sometimes be enough to have a simple forms over data thing where they just collect data and it spits out something else which applications on the workflow simple Business people use our platform to develop some logic forms. The go go to low for what we want to do. Business caning habitable customers. They don't need applications that last years needs to do with trauma action for today made it leaks this year measure. It will change because we have the technology to do so many different so we need to be adaptable to it. And we don't need this or a cumbersome difficult way of coding. these days. Brian dropbox incoming. I think get nor in addition to the decisive. That's out there. The very infamy fava cather south to develop a weekly pug fellas little chorea. You're also yeah. Thanks for mentioning that. That's actually that's really a passion project of mine. I mentioned earlier. it's a. It's not something. I make money with absolutely just cost money because i just keep buying equipment and gear to make it sound better. What it's about it's a. it's a podcast for developers architects basically for software professionals of of all calibers beginners to experts. And what i covered. There is is technology Topics so sometimes very specific things like about micro services for instance but sometimes also about how to troubleshoot or What neuro diversity looks like it into software. Industry show people task for instance. How does it look like. And how do we deal with stuff like that. So it i try to make it not a typical both gas technology. Podcast why we talk about the latest and greatest javascript framework of the week but more surfing. That has more value where we have conversations that matter basically with with people that are interesting and know their stuff. So i've been lucky so far that i had to lots of industry Leaders on the podcast. And there's a lot more tacoma's all this year and the beginning of next year is scheduled but it's fun. Yeah ends weekly pro more sand its value. Human side of technology. Think they extolling. It's not about the technology of more than plumbing of faith and care that the human side on the value side medicine. The area various about costs so lassie challenges. But that's one challenge. Baby will lose a little bit lot of malicious amount realized under cloud journey your cloud migration that called where act continued to increase or some nunu and then talk about having vision strategy so fulltime fulltime. This division was. That's the way the cloud strategy was just migrate in. Then now we've got these bigger costs expected now re strategizing them pill. Why what we do that. The big thing. What's your experience Have they close. Realize the cost count inch after bugs experienced. What have to go to. What are they doing to climb. Understand the game control. Again of of costco's importance yeah usually The discover costs have gone into the cloud. And that's often that is because they don't understand what kind of things cost money in the cloud for instance A cloud provider usually charges. You for data that goes out of cloud. Data centers egress data. So for instance. Adam if i have a website and you go to it's you download the html of website and images and whatever else on there. And then i pay for that traffic. That goes out of the data center there and that can become huge costs especially if you For instance half storage you store data there and you just download it to your company. Let's say you just use this as as a as a share to data store or you just store your your your work occupants or something that can be very expensive so once people realize that then they can find a solution for for instance if you were using a cloud storage accounts to store just documents and use those on your local p. Maybe you should have a vpn to your cloud and then you don't have those costs anymore because then that's one thing you're in the same network. Basically yes so those are but the little kid for anybody was hanging. There's lots more tips and tricks. But it's usually just getting to know what things cost money in the cloud and how to actually work with the cloud because the cloud has has different paradigms like scaling for instance you can scale out but the power of the cloud is that you can scale in so if you have a virtual machine that runs an application that fingers by default. That thing is on twenty four seven jancis are that you do not need that. Vm to be running twenty four seven. So you can create rules or whatever the schedule that just powers at the virtual machine down in weekends. Or i don't know into evening or whenever you don't need it or based a rule where measures if it's actually being used and then scale it down so if you actually apply all those rules which is different difficult because it's not in your mind sets because you never had these paradigms but if you apply these rules then you can save a lot of costs and the same goes for using the right pricing tiers. People don't realize usually they use higher pricing tiers which means a higher and more processing power than they actually need so if you scale to the right pricing theorists and usually you can also save lots and lots of costs so back to scale in everyone about gala day. Lopes everything book scale in scale right knee. Tears lactose speed focused organizations on at least hall. They initially i think. The architecture detect for x. Amount the Lucy availability. but you need off that so you do. Method cost command any optics at those costs. Because you won't hire them will ability just fine will Ripe say call sells for needed untalented is very technologically focused and technologists developers architects. All of this but wouldn't reservations. Do anybody else. Care about azure insofar as having business conversations about the cloud of either. How can help business oceans or is there still in the line between technologists who developed the niger news and do the plumbing parts on the businesses divider doc. Slowly clothing our thermal to do with it. It is slowly closing and that's mainly to microsoft. Say incredibly big marketing machine. Because you know as your is now their primary business. That's how they make money. Make money from officer windows anymore. It's it's azure. That's what their money maker. So they're pouring all the resources in marketing it educating customers about it and to developing and expanding which then means that at the sea level in within a company people know what as your is people. Obviously you know what microsoft is but then people they're also start to realize that my azur and accompanying cloud services like office three sixty five and there's also dynamics the crm business although they all tied together with each other and thinks like one drive and all these different clouds a venue say all tied together to enable your digital transformation with your company. And so as you're is just part of that because you know productivity suites for instance officers five where you have your email your your word processing your powerpoint type stuff is extremely important because email. You can't live without email. For instance in a company or a teams nowadays has exploded as well all ties into azure as well where it an gets sold. St there you can do customization of all these things to see here. You can build custom versions of that with editor where you can You usa artificial intelligence machine learning all these clever things and run your existing as well. So i think the value proposition for azure anti other cloud services for mike fake layer to To basically all levels of of the organization's nowadays at at least that i speak to also yet it also relates to Let's say the competition so amazon web services in the google cloud as well where at least in a netherlands. You see that. Microsoft is extremely prevalent. That's their marketing efforts. Here as well and their shields efforts. But i think it's also because Amazon for instance is a huge company. That does all sorts of stuff. They also sell books and audiobooks said everything else that you can imagine on their website and their cloud. Business is a big business. But it's not their primary focus per se where for microsoft. It's their one thing. It's the one thing that they do. Basically they do lots of other smaller things as well but this is what drives their company is if as you're fails mike schofield's microsoft's existing at the moment where we've got an. I always think it's made where we are today. It's cloud world was the everything. Mit with assaulted by online bookstore. Originally both both are out there with the traffic. Because of the jj the job enroll technology and everything else which is really good to see the of this information. You know this this new world. Alex claim to be i think are off the surmountable change. i think. probably we're gonna finish up on a few final questions or even short houses. We mentioned a little bit about digital digital transformation. Land that robert bolt here for an entire bay you think go from wisey in digital transformation generally misunderstood the marketplace. Yes i think so. I think that's the case. It's it's still a hype word digital transformation. What's actually two words. People think we have to transform our complete business so that everything is digital which the literal interpretation of most businesses which obviously is not the case. What is the case is that you need to enable your team and your people and your customers with digitalization which doesn't mean digitize everything but maybe just those places where it makes sense and makes and that ties back into what i said earlier you need to come up with a proper vision and strategy to execute on that vision which is the most difficult thing obviously do as a company because that makes or breaks your company. But if you don't do that right also your digital transformation doesn't go right and you can say well i'm hiring microsoft or amazon to do my digital transformation for me. That doesn't work because you have to come up with what you want. First empathic advice for will thing. That's really good advice and moving forward amid that schedule this moving to the fire nation. Lots of money can but that usually doesn't because organizations have no idea what they are actually running so for instance they might have one hundred applications that are hidden on their surface right now. That also needs to go to the cloud and once they are in the cloud then they need to be in their own containers or virtual machines are they are they old abilities availibility security performance. All that stuff because it's performance it's a it's a production application and so it needs to be treated as such where now it is some hidden thing that run somewhere on the surface that nobody thinks about but his might be critical to the business. So usually when you then discover that there are ten does things on a virtual machine. You probably split those out and that cost you more money but in reality you should have already done. That's edge show. You should have paid that money. But it's just because now you're looking at your infrastructure education landscape that you start realizing what you have and for cost you money. So in general for people that move to the cloud initially no. It doesn't save you money but The costs that you make start being more realistic. That's what i would say. I think that's reality. That people are basam retired question. But i will find it moving. It book it from the tropics to the topic is a good thing absolutely You don't want to own stuff anymore. You just want to lease or rented basically because that means that you can also turn down like we said you can scale down and that are turn it off As well you know your service might not be use over the summer holidays for instance. Where at surfer that you have. If it's not use over the summer holidays it's still there. You still pay turned off. Scaled-down stay right will be a marvel to by question. Devops mentioned a little bit on developed. Again we could be here for the office. All the cloud base doodles. You think what percent office saw with cloud services too far now. not now. devops is not about to steph. Abc's about people and devops is actually very simple. It's it's just what's the name says. Its developers and operations people working together. That's all that it is. Because traditionally operations people and the developers have different goals. Developer wants to change things and operations. People want to keep everything so if you can work together on changing things because you need to change things to add value then you have devops and then you can work together and add value really interesting. i think for me Bound because of cloud technologies because we can change things on an infant now need to develop in voloshin whole is there. Will they need operations to make sure about it all work together. The only way you can do that is to get and buddy working on the same goal round which offers radio about rattled using tools and they click but tools to help. Because you know previously Deployments were very scary. You had to were documents that you need to go line by line and now you have that in in an automated pipeline so every deployment is exactly the same which means that you can also refer them if you need to help. But it's definitely about people people. I'm going to finish any final words or any insights on what's coming next in ayrshire who what's coming next in asia. I think existing existing services will obviously evolve and to everything becomes cheaper if you look at the storage for instance in the clouds. It's not only for azure but in other other vendors saw it becomes cheaper every year. And that's because of scale more people that use it the more scale they have and more cheap. It's gets the same goes for computers. Well you we get more compute you know eventually we might be able to use Quantum computers in the cloud as well still aways away but said it will be very interesting. And i think We see a lot more as a service services like In the beginning we saw lots of infrastructure as a service where you had a lot of control but also a lot of responsibility yourself. And now you do see that customers also they. They want to use figs. That are managed by a cloud provider. So as you're also they have lots of those services for instance in the of artificial intelligence services that convert free trained models that you can just use out of the box to do image-recognition and things like that. So you don't have to do all that yourself because you know Machine learning is difficult in a is is difficult because she knew the scientists and it's all very complicated but it companies like microsoft dude at themselves and i think the next step is also that they do it in verticals like they now provide specific services for instance for autonomous vehicles markets which is very interesting or for the defining markets as well. So if if you're in one of these verticals you can just use a couple of these services and bill dyer application together instead of having to train all that data yourself and spend millions on very complicated process. They're going to enable all that stuff for you again. I may take at least five to one of your earlier. Comment was even though for example azure has been around for the here too so it's only started the whole time of the legal development. Say twelve years. It's it's only getting started down on the only grow wrote in denver to go into solving solutions that businesses getting to the adult service around the edges of what they need and do ons Watch fethi and the lack of cloud providers are facial for donald trump. Thank you thank you very much for having me. It was a blast. Let's do it again. Thank you for joining this episode of ccc top. We hope you enjoyed this episode. Walk away with a ton of actionable insights. If this is your first time joining us this us extending a personal invitation to you to join other. It and business professionals. So please subscribe on itunes youtube or google play. If you're struggling in any capacity or digital transformation journey contact we'd be more than happy to guide you and find you to write certification courses to help you manage the challenges. Modern businesses are facing. This was ccc talks until next time.

microsoft marco laughlin margaret lachlan mcfadden coun ccc amazon kobe dune lima hanan komo geiger beck Us berry nba clippers barry asher Brian dropbox fava cather Shane
Massachusetts Cannabis Control Commission proposed regulation changes

The Young Jurks

33:01 min | 9 months ago

Massachusetts Cannabis Control Commission proposed regulation changes

"The Young Jerks sponsored by UFC w fourteen, forty, five, a labor union representing cannabis employees in Massachusetts currently. CW, is holding a union election at net new. England treatment access in Brookline as well as mayflower if you were cannabis employees worried about your health and safety and are not being heard at work, call the Union at UFC W. local fourteen, forty five dot org or call them at one, eight, hundred, four, three, nine, one, four, four, five. Hi It's Mike Crawford welcome to the young Jerks podcast wanted to tell you why we chose anchor. For podcasts hosting it's the easiest way to make a podcast. Let me explain it's completely free this creation tools that allow you to record in Eddie your podcast right from your phone or computer so easy I can even do it. Anchor will distribute your podcast for you. So it can be heard on spotify apple podcast and many more. And if you're paying for hosting services right now for your podcast, why this is completely free anchor is completely free and you can make money from your podcast with no minimum listenership. It's everything you need to make a podcast in one place anchor DOT FM. Transmit here with the young jerks. It is July Twentieth Twenty Twenty about nine thirty in the morning, and we are going live rates special pre show this morning in the lead up to the ten o'clock eastern ten am Canvas Control Commission Regulatory Update Hearing I. We've done some pre shows before, but we've never done one with as many amazing guests as I have with me. Today. As you can see, we have at the Souso from Riverine Gardens with us. Marion. mcnabb from the Canvas Center for Excellence and Devon. Alexander from rolling relief. We only have about twenty five minutes in the pre show. So what I'm GONNA do is quickly go around to each guest allow them introduce yourself out themselves, and then we'll get right in to a policy discussion. So please. Do a quick introduction for us. Thank you my name's Ed to suse managing. Riverine Gardens. Were located in degree or very exciting to be here today, there's a couple of up regulations that usually had the excited but we'll talk about that with Dr Comes. Wonderful, Marian. Can winning everybody on. Thanks for having a sawn. My Name's Dr Mary mcnabb and I was the former CEO of cannabis community. Karen? Research Network which. Unfortunately closed due to Kobe. but now the president of Canopus, center of Excellence, which is a nonprofit organization looking to UH sport a cannabis research education at CEO Social Justice. So thanks for having. Wonderful. Devon. Everyone Hung Devon Alexander I. Am the. Of Rolling Relief we are delivery only. Were we're going through the licensing process I'm social equity graduate as well we recently obtained our research -cation delivery and there's a bunch new regulations coming out that I cannot wait S. That's awesome. Thank you all so much for being here with us. I know this is one of those fun days for people new cannabis industry as we get to see the updated draft regulations and whether you're activist or you run a non profit or you run a business, the updating of these regulations has an impact on almost every aspect of e canvas industry in the Commonwealth and it's actually what we're here to talk about today. So provoke to unaware the Canvas Control Commission starting today is beginning what's called a regulatory revision process. Is. Regulatory revision process will entail is hearing today where draft regulations will be voted on and then a public comment period that will open today and close in mid August that will allow the public to give feedback on the draft regulations. That feed back I will be both in the form of written testimony that can be sent to the C. Starting today the Commission at CCC Mask Dot Com, or the week of August third there will be virtual public comment hearing where individuals will be able to actually go on eight virtual meeting with the CCC. Ridden. Spoken oral comments on the draft regulations as well. Once that comment period closes, the SEC will then put out final regulations and a vote will be taken to. Entrench these regulations into law on September twenty four. So it's about a two month process and what we're going to talk about today's from different areas of the regulations that folks like that folks think needs to be improved and that folks. I think can be amended. So the first thing I want to talk about his delivery Regulations Devon I know that you run a company called rolling relief than delivery regulations as proposed or not quite where you want them to be heard you tell us a little bit about what changes you're hoping to see during the public comment period. Yeah, definitely. So as currently stack the regulatory regulations around Libary, you have location you had vehicles, boats dispensary you pick everything up free packaged and everything that you don't sell the end of the day you're Chan. Back to that dispensary as not a profitable business model for delivery companies, regulations changes I would like to see is the ability to wholesale from micro-businesses warehouse, Uproxx, overnight package it ourselves I wanna be able to get up and go came man I need a couple of this aggregate and then give the people of the South Shore River Gardens wiler. So as a big thing I and also two year exclusivity window. When you're delivery only business, you get a two year window potentially three to run delivery services before the big MS and bank people can hop. Fan. Window used to be extended to at least three years with an option for four. So those are the two main points like sea change. Thank you Devon, and before I jump over to the gas can I I'm Nash, some clarifying questions firstly. So you're saying that the proposal that exist now for delivery the type of delivery licensure seeking is basically an uber its model where you on the cars but you pick up orders from brick and mortar stores and then deliver them. Yeah. Yeah. Basically a career that dispensary in this Notary Independent End of business. So back. Now on that. And the change proposing understand this as you would like folks to reach out to the commission and asked that delivery only companies be allowed to purchase a warehouse and then put product purchase at wholesale into that warehouse for those companies to deliver themselves. Yes. That's correct. Very similar to how third party transport licenses setup they have the ability to do anything he just said, but delivery does not. Awesome and then on the issue of extending the priority period. So I understand it correctly currently that two year exclusivity window for delivery licenses applies to both delivery endorsements for micro-businesses and standalone or delivery licenses like the what you're applying for that period doesn't start until the first men's operating order is for one of those. And sixteen months in there it's going to be reevaluated. Am I understanding correctly also are asking that the default length of that period be increased from two to three years to the commission to properly evaluate whether these licenses reliable. As. Correct. Yes. It's very hard to sell how profitable business is going to be on the after two years. So we definitely need to get that window extended. Wonderful I'm Ed Marian on do you have any thoughts on God delivery of businesses being able to have a warehouse in purchase products wholesale? Absolutely I. Go first but. We WanNa work with delivery. We Wanna be able to give them the ability to provide product at a reasonable rate My fear is a lot of these delivery services they're going to be charged at the rate that Zuma's Char. which is not how we want to go ahead and provide two services. So I think working with Michael businesses at other product manufacturer is called debaters is an essential part of the business. Yeah. I totally agree and I really think that. As. David mentioned the the way that the license structure is now is not very profitable and so allowing the purchase and directly from your microbrewers or producers packaging on an especially having the ability to store it overnight and not return. It is very, very important part that way mean you're not driving all around you're reducing your carbon footprint in that way and you can also. Have Product from all of states alert on the state. Marion transitioning a little bit I know that obviously you keep very breast of the updates to the regulations him. With more sort of. Night Guess Thirty Thousand Foot. Elevation. Perspective on how are you feeling about the regulatory vision? Is there anything in there? You really liked dislike. Please tell us. Yeah. I think there's a couple of things one. The deliberating issue is really important I. also think that you know the canvas research license that we've advocated for about three and a half years is totally dead in the water or geared towards Really, wealthy or you know well funded students So I'd like to see in a movement on that research added that we've been talking about. For. A number of years also, I think whereas social consumption and you know where is that in the in the mix right now and interested to see in kind of how that move forward and you know I. Mean as a former social equity training vendor Do for all of the bills that are in the State House right now for a loan fine to and the others that were advocated last week at the at the call to Action with Eon I'm I know that's The. Specifically the The loan fund social consumption. Expunge moment, and then the host community tax. So I think what largest areas and we were speaking about this before it even started ask for this call started as barriers course community agreements, and local control is just a really a big challenge for many many entrepreneurs. The so true in. Thank you for bringing out that that very hour rally that. Equitable opportunities now Schnell. Along with Beck. Ma The black council in Massachusetts and the minority Canvas Business Association held a few days ago. Devon was actually a speaker at that event. I thought having your words along with every other speaker were really powerful and just to take us through the bills that Mary mentioned. There I was Senate Bill Twenty, six fifty, which is Social Equity Loan Fund Devin could you tell us as a social equity applicant yourself why that loan fund from the State is so crucial to get past and why would help you as an applicant? We can't get traditional bank loans like the Normal Entrepreneur Ken, and if you look at other equity programs in Illinois in California and generating millions of dollars to get equity applicants but Massachusetts was the first state of a State Social Equity Program. But we have nothing to show for only one minority cannabis business owner in the entire state. So. We need those loans yet. One occasion I was a lawyer fees. Australia employee's of us get our vehicles outfitted. Delivery van you have to get. To non movable safes, one for cash wonder products took cameras one in storage in one in the back. With drivers and then you drivers after wear body cams as well. So that's just for one ban. The obviously want to have more than one. An accident. Enact some mechanical issues happen. So you won't have to venture off the Bat. So Social Senate bill two, six, five, zero when established no interest loans for social equity and Economic Empowerment Atkins and just all hugely. And that would be overseen by the Housing and Urban Development Authority I believe without connection to the Cannabis Control Commission, and the reason I definitely think I heard this part of your answer this is so crucial is in the absence of this kind of state back zero interest loan or grant. If there's loan forgiveness included, what ends up happening is that sometimes smaller equity companies get rolled up by predatory big cannabis companies who go around trying to say, Oh, join our franchise or join our incubator when in reality what they're doing is basically setting it up to roll those small equity companies up into the larger company under the auspices of providing, them. Assistance. So this kind of State Social Equity Loan Fund without any of those strings attached and without these vulture capital intentions. In the mix makes them so that not only can companies like yours receive that kind of funding not only can they receive zero percent interest and not only can they receive it from the state, but they receive it in such a way that doesn't come any strings attached or even the potential of their relationship with the source of funding being exploited to undermine their ownership because it's not just opening the company it's making sure that if equity is to mean something the ownership and control of the company remains with the person who got the social equity qualification of the harmon qualification. So thank you for diving in there. I also had another question about the HVAC Ellen. At first, then please Devon and Marian way in his well now please into the logic surrounding the fix as well. Right now because folks may be aware the way that it works together, cannabis license is there's kind of a track system one must obtain licensing at the. Local level through what's called the host community agreement process, and then one must go through the state level process to obtain a license panic control commission. But when obtaining that local host community agreement, some towns as media reports indicated have been charging more than the three percent in tax that they're allowed to by law, which has resulted in a situation where large companies have been able to do things. Like by fire trucks were paid for a large donations to nonprofits but smaller companies who cannot afford it that three more than the three percent in yearly with their each ca have been frozen out of the market at. Can you tell house a little bit a little bit about why a bill going through the legislature right now to fix that the process and capita three percent would help small businesses. Of course I mean for one when you're a small business, you wearing many hats and you have to really designate your fines to the appropriate causes to hire a lawyer to negotiate your h. she where it could clearly state three percent over five years. Is something that not a lot of small businesses can do so. Let's take the bag out of the language haven't state what it was originally intended to do so that small businesses can use their funds and more appropriate direction. Marianne are Devon any comment on the a fixed bill? Your basically everything you've touched on you see a lot of these cities and towns saying they want ten thousand dollars donated to the nonprofits Pablo, your free percent of the annual growth sales, and you already have to have a positive impact plan how you got a positive impact, the community so. A. Lot of Canada's says, make a community better because all the stuff they have to do much. They set up shop in. All Norway around service. Yeah I I think it's really important to have that they'll go through and specifically for H, C as I mean I've talked to a number of our colleagues who have struggled to get it because of the issues that we're talking about because larger companies are coming in offering better more financed our resources. But also thank you know really trying to make sure that the municipalities no of Al Be Equity, social, equity program, and are really you know held to that is important as well. So not only capping the fees but. A lot of times I mean the stays will likely program in the economic program is one thing. But when you get to the local municipalities, that's where a lot of people are really really struggling rate Competing with large money or dealing with racism or. The inability to find a facility and the zoned area So also maybe having templates that helped end negotiating those agreements, you know with the towns having those readily available also. Now. Thank you marrying really point to an issue which is so insightful, which is that. As. You mentioned the State Canvas Control Commission has an equity mandate in their adult use canvas permanent process, which means that when the Cannabis Control Commission will be as giving out licenses, they need to deliberately include equity programs whether it be the economic empowerment program, the Social Equity Program where the benefits extended toward disadvantaged business enterprises, local cities, and towns not only don't have that same mandate when one local city and town which I'm sure you're familiar with Cambridge attempted to green and only priority period for two years. When issuing ECA's they were sued by a medical dispensary named revolutionary clinics because medical dispensary wasn't allowed to be included in the equity priority period. With our minds me up dating back to twenty twelve, there has never once and social equity or economic? Empowerment program for ownership of medical. Licensing. And what it's great in some ways that revolutionary clinic through Cambridge, because on April Twenty Fourth of twenty twenty, a single justice of the Massachusetts appeals court ruled that local cities and towns can have eaten or s only priority periods when issuing HCFA's that do not have to include medical dispensaries. Now, going back to Maria's point that's not part of the law that they must be able to have those periods. But at a baseline knowing that equity only priority periods without including medical dispensaries when HVAC. legal is a huge step forward. So I do hope lawmakers will take it one step further and mandate that those kinds of programs exist at least to the tune of a one to one roll out. So I I doing every city in Tau should be rolling out for every general whether it be a medical dispensary or irregular out can for every one of those out there should be one equity out which is kind of similar to the system in Boston. So perhaps that's a good foundation. I apologize for going off on that Spiel, there is there anything folks want to weigh in on related to the era of equity appearance please. Notable priority period but I mean when I do have some time there is something that was I felt couple of major things in these pros regulations that the public needs to be made aware of especially with comment period coming up and I don't WanNa Cheek in time but if I do have two seconds No of course, as we captains conversation I was actually about to come to you and say Ed is anything going to tell US perhaps related to employees being able to sample their products from thereon? Boyer's. All right. So Yes Five, hundred, one twenty starts the section about quality control sampling in vendors sampling. When I read this the other day I was jumping for joy thinking that the commission had listened to us on How we actually we can prove that our product is worth the money that people. aside from that I thought it was a brilliant idea to go ahead and have employees get sampled quality control testing is a way to. Get. Rid of the possible diversion of the product from your facility. However, reading into this, I'm a little concerned right now one is says that you're supposed to be able to designate your sample as equality trolls in doesn't make any mention about changing this desiccation metric, which is something that everybody has to use The other issue I have is that reading more closely, it employees is only allowed to have four grams her strain in a max of seven strains for a period of one calendar month. So I mean now, comparing this to some of the other industries where you're able to provide your employees, a sample of what they're actually working on. wish skill forcing our employees to go to A. Retailer to purchase what they had made themselves I think the comment period really has to go ahead and express the fact that these limits are, where do they come from For example, concentrates if you wanted to give a simple of a concentrate, you give five France of that concentrate. Now, four grams of flour versus five grams concentrate winner those numbers come from in the area of one. Month or the samples being given I don't know where that came from but I feel that if you're involved in the cannabis business candidates industry, even if you're just a consumer or a medical patient, if you're ever GonNa work for a Canada's company, you WanNa make sure these limits reasonable and the time duration which you receive these samples are a little bit more friendlier than once per? month. Thank you Marian or do you have any thoughts on employ sampling and why it's important to extend those women's and removed that one time periods? And just echoing what Ed said when you will work at brewery know they you can sample your product. Crazy. You know what I'm saying like a lot of Ruez will gas for acts like nothing they don't have to go to the liquor store and buy their products on the side so. I've being very important a lot of work and time and effort into providing clean safe medicine for the community, and so they should get to enjoy the fruits their labor. Yeah agreed agreed I wonder does that also have to do so Can you does this issue also, if you're sampling other people's products for wholesale, only specifically for your own employees. So the regulations right now stated quality control samples are over employee's Vendor samples are for retailers product manufacturers better testing, so on and so forth. But Mary you make a great point These are great east proposed regulations are in the right direction, but they need to be ironed out and they need to make sense. Yeah and I mean if I was working for you, I definitely want to be able to tissue products and not have to buy A. Yeah I'm sure you'RE GONNA. Have some fire. We'll get comes down to diversion I mean everybody who's a registered agent has to sign an attestation that they will not divert fraud act. This is this could be another needs to ensure that front of using be cuffed I mean I know my employees, they wear uniform no pockets, dogs I don't trust them but more as a reason for the CCC to say, Hey, you can avoid the Persian but something like this John in the right way is going to be the. Way To avoid. And that really is so important folks may have seen about six months ago. One as owner with six different licenses across multiple live license categories was. Diverting and the CCC takes that very seriously I think it's a testament to the knowledge of the regulations. You all have that you are sensitive to that and that you're willing to structures in each element of regulation to assure those who are concerned about diversion that you'll be doing your best. As you mentioned to make sure it doesn't happen. So it's about nine, Fifty, seven and thirty seconds. We have two and a half minutes until I expect the chairman to Atlas into session I wanted to leave a little bit of time to i. Let you all know that you've been watching the young jerks. My Name Is Grant Smith our doing our pre show today's CCC's Ten am regulatory tradition hearing enjoying this. Morning by Ed Souza From River Ryan Gardens Marion make now from the candidates center Excellence Devon Alexander Rolling Relief as always you can find this episode and all episodes on both our facebook page facebook dot com forward slash young jerks and our podcast platforms, which you can find on either spotify apple podcast anchors, stitcher breaker or anywhere else for your podcast. Surf out. So this really awesome discussion. We covered so many important areas of the updated regulations and so many areas that folks should reach out to the CCC Latino about going forward whether that be changing delivery to allow those companies have warehouses and purchase product at wholesale whether it be expanding the ability of employees to receive quality control samples from their employers whether it be. Expanding the research licenses that are also coming out in the new regulatory vision to ensure that they're available accessible to not just money groups, but instead anyone to engage with up interest cannabis research So before we prepared to turn it over to the commission, I would like to leave you all the chance for some closing. Remarks Devon would you like to lead us off? there's only one recommendation the CCC made for delivery that I'm really proud of Mess GonNa be allowing delivery companies to establish jerome of clothing line and your own accessories such as rolling trays, readers, abors. So that's definitely something company and excited room. So be on the lookout relief products. Mary. Yeah, I'm just I, think, for this particular regulatory around I'm really interested to see what they do with the research license because that has been on the back burner for so many years and there are some applicants by Allah guidance has been put out. So I'll be really just launching interested in will be spitting my arms around that and justice in some other areas. Thank you. Want to take this time and say that I really feel one thing. Maybe I missed it by reading the rates that needs to be brought up with during the comma period is the idea that fines issued are levied on cannabis companies that have violated regulations should go to the equity. Fund. This is one way that we can ensure we we actually have equity or equitable market of billable for people coming out of the shadows as opposed to just having a gold star Hey I'm was so handed he -ill. Let's go ahead take money, put it to good use and make sure that people can come out of the shadows and their families legally. Yes I agree with you added and I'd also say the really needs to put more resources and funding behind the Social Equity Program moving forward and you know continue to bolster that. Ed Great Point under percent it was over eight, hundred, thousand dollars, worth of fines given out. So was it. Was I'm going to go into. Now Imagine you only had twenty five thousand dollars to put your company. And just to be clear last week at the CCC hearing Arcnord showing title made a motion in support of a bill that is in front of the legislature right now that would give the CC mechanism and the authority to use both fines donations the positive impact plans to find the internal social equity program knocked alone the Lawn Fund is twenty, six, fifty that separate. This bill that commissioner title asked her colleagues to support would give the CCC mechanism to support its own internal social equity program, and this is actually very important because as folks will know today at three, pm the former director of. Community outreach and social equity programming she keeps Scott will be joining the young Turks live after the regulatory hearings. So please stay tuned for that and she kiai happened in one of the people that had been begging the commission including commissioners, titles banking as well for the commission to expand the budget of the social equity it had not expanded in three years and when commissioner title last week brought up her desperation for the to write a letter in support of the bill to allow them to spend a positive impact, Pant plan funds and fines on the Internal Social Equity Program a few for fellow commissioners. Lectured her unprocessed. And it was so hurtful because commissioner title brought this issue up last year she brought it up a few months ago. She brought it up at the beginning of last week and those other commissioners didn't want to support her because they felt she hadn't given them enough time to considerate. and. I just wanted to point to that as an example even when you have someone like commissioner title and. Scott others fighting internally and screaming at the top of their lungs to protect equity they still sometimes face. Barriers, and that's when this grassroots community houses play and the voice that you waller able to bring to the table is able to really affects you wait the kind of change that some of those people are fighting for. So thank you all so much for not only being with us here today, but for taking the time to talk us through those policy areas that have meant so much to you the Cannabis Control Commission is about to Gabbling to session. So, what we will do is for the time being I everyone got to say they're closing remarks. So we'll say goodbye to our guests if I could have you. Lock Yourself. Zoff. We'll transition to the Canvas Control Commission hearing and thank you again so much to Devon Alexander at Desouza. Marian McNab, you guys have been wonderful where so grateful to have had you with us today and folks you are watching a young jerks. My Name Is Grant Smith. Right. Now, we're just waiting to transition over to the candidates control commission, which I am going to do. Now I hope you all enjoy the hearing I will as a ways, come back to you during the breaks Gender item it. Will cover. You will see the recess up on the screen and we will be providing coverage of this hearing right through to the end and then please join us at three o'clock for the interview with Chiquita Scott All right talk to you about with the break. Thank you very much for watching it again to our guest. The young jerks sponsored by UFC w fourteen, forty, five, a labor union representing cannabis employees Massachusetts currently. CW is holding a union election at net New England treatment access in Brookline, as well as May flower. If you were cannabis employees worried about your health and safety and are not being heard at work, call the union UFC W. local fourteen forty, five dot org or call them at one, eight, hundred, four, three, nine, one, four, four, five.

cannabis Devon Alexander Massachusetts Cannabis Control Commission Canvas Control Commission CCC Ed Marian Social Equity Program Dr Mary mcnabb UFC Twenty Twenty CCC Brookline spotify CW Canada Senate Grant Smith Riverine Gardens
The Digital Transformation Journey: Challenges & Considerations

CCC Talks

53:53 min | 1 year ago

The Digital Transformation Journey: Challenges & Considerations

"Welcome to CCC talks empowering it and business professionals in their digital transformation journey. Find all the latest tips tricks and strategies at our blog and resource center at cloud credential dot Org and our host. Ccc Managing Director Marco Laughlin. Hello everybody and welcome to another edition of CC. Talks with Markle up on the cloud credential council now today John McCain Wilson can is director of platform life cycle management and head of PMS operations. I'm Adidas it. Group can thank you very much for joining us on. Today's podcast. Great. Hey thanks for having me Mark. I really appreciate the opportunity to be with. All of you My name is Ken. Wilson I've been in it for over twenty years and really cut my teeth and the client server world. So I've been around quite a long time since really the late nineties and I've been working at hospitality technology for really over fifteen years with a particular focus on systems over the last several years. I've really been helping Amadeus hospitality sunset. A lot of the legacy products yet really move those customers off of about thirty nine of them to our newer cloud based products and really mark. I can assure you that is quite an undertaking There's a lot going on there and it's hand not. I've also been running. Our property management systems operations team from topic so great wealth of experience. There you've seen from the traditional side of it now into digital and cloud and everything in between as you said moving a lot of systems from the older what we now call legacy into. This new cloud world is as well now. I'm looking at the Amadeus. It group You know in its own words helping to connect over one point. Five billion people year to local traveler providers in over one hundred ninety countries. That's a lot of people. A lot of countries on a lot of travel trips was interested in the industry that you're in how important now is cloud and digital technologies in sustaining this type and level of business today and enter the future all mark. I. I work with our hospitality business unit which really focuses on hospitality technology with some of the largest hotel companies in the world. We're offering technology services to assist hoteliers in all areas of Patel operations such as sales and catering service optimization property management systems in such a reservation systems right. And there's many others as well. I come from one of Amadeus Acquisitions That really focused on the sales and catering aspect of hospitality technology. But obviously my world has grown substantially as other acquisitions have been folded in. And we've been made an official business unit within Amadeus yes nonetheless. We're we've started by providing software on premise world. Right so many other companies have done an as a technology has changed. We've had to change. Yes but clearly. You know we've realized that the cloud and digital transformation has really become an enabler for us to provide a radically new set of solutions to our customers from data driven by and guess management solutions to real time rate management and You know the cloud and digital transformation is really opened a lot of new doors for US. You know also go ahead mark. Oh go and say that Are You doing things today? That you couldn't have done ten fifteen years ago and are you doing different business operations differently today because of cloud and digital yeah absolutely absolutely. I mean I would say ten to fifteen years ago. What we were doing was was really selling our products primarily on prem on premise. We were selling you know. hosted products so taking our legacy products and providing those at a hosted environment. We had a heavy focus on systems. A heavy focus on fundamental technologies such as compute networking and storage today. It's radically changed right. I mean if we look at what we're doing today. We're leveraging the cloud we're leveraging Microsoft Azure and Google cloud or laver leveraging our own private cloud. We're doing a lot with Cooper Nettie is. There's a tremendous amount of opportunity that we've we've been able to unlock Simply by moving to cloud and to you know leveraging digital transformation to use some of the common bows were to be here today. What you've described there could be called Hybrid cloud strategy a multi cloud strategy as well multi cloud multiple cloud providers. The high that aspect at least from our perspective is using both public and private cloud as well. So it's a complete mixed. Did you find there was a steep learning curve in getting to where you are today in this? Hybrid Cloud Multi Cloud Environment that you know have well. Yes absolutely I mean I think as we have you know Transitions right so you know. Amadeus has traditionally had the largest data center in Europe based in Germany You know a tremendous amount of data center experience. It's been it's been a challenge to really kinda think differently right to take and look at okay. Well how can we leverage public cloud providers? Where do they make sense now? They don't make sense in every scenario right as we built out a new central reservation system for the largest hotel chain in the world We realized that the public cloud wasn't going to provide the you know the performance and resilience the That we needed for that particular application so we built our own private cloud and and frankly is a tremendous undertaking That that you know really cost us more than we expected it was. There was a lot involved in figuring out how to actually implement effectively. And just moving on to a new operational models you know leveraging devops leveraging our our teams differently training our teams with new skills and new ways of thinking. There wasn't it was a pretty big undertaking to make that transition now. I would say that you know. Those that are entertained in the cloud and many many people are looking at that. I mean it's kind of a foregone conclusion that cloud here here to stay right. Yes you know. It's not simply that you can. Just you know you know. Switch off your data center move into the cloud. There's a lot to think about. There's a lot to go through. There's a lot of training that needs to happen and You know if you think through it and carefully evaluate what you're trying to do and what workloads make sense in violent. I think you can be tremendously successful. That's that's an amazing story. It's a slightly counteracts the move to the cloud because of as you said you not on allies. Clinton said that. It's not the solution. I think that's the success of the early part of that strategy in saying it's driving to build a data center almost swimming against the current wave of thanking But you end up with the right solution for the right purpose for you know to get the right result at the end of the day Even from an investor perspective that could have been pressure. I'm not saying it was for your organization but we've seen Pressures put on organizations to move to the cloud. Just because it's considered cheaper in your case. I don't think the lower cost would have been. It was the right thing to do for this industry whilst writing to do that hotel as you said we have to go on. This journey on his probably. I'm sure it's paid off and in doing that. I think that sounds like it's got you in this hybrid multi cloud scenario which I think is where organization should be going should be evaluating these clouds on a case-by-case basis. Not Just A. Let's go to cloud basis. I think this autumn hearing this is a good case study for choosing the right type of cloud the public or private add right approach to solving a business problem. Our business traveler your an opportunity rather than just. Let's go to cloud which we see all the time So so that was good. You mentioned as well on on the way. There was a lot of 'em learning and change and culture and like devops is that's newish compared to an organization like yourselves have been around for a while was training just enough or was training. Gave your people and stuff to the enough to start wanting to work in this new environment. I also think that people make the change at the end of the day training might help facilitate us on the standing water. It is we need to change into without of applied here. Yeah certainly I mean I think I think training is one aspect of it right. I mean there. Are you know everyone starts off with a particular mindset right And it's you know. Some people are really you know they. They've really enjoyed what they've been doing. They've been very successful with it. And you know You know there has to be some education evangelism with respect to the benefits of what the cloud can bring Bring them their careers and the company as a whole so that that's a big part of it right is is helping to change that mindset and then you know as they change their mindset really Enforcing that with training and shirring that they have the skills that they Sense that they relevant right. I mean everybody wants to feel relevant and so you know as we can really not only encourage our teams to make that transition make that my shift change also back that up with the With robust skills that enable them to be successful. I think that's that's a very good point and today we still. We've been relevance in our industry people still want to remain relevant And I think the only way to do that with all this technological change going on is to upskill some house at his training education certification. Whatever that is Take a mix plan them to that. Probably not everybody needs to be trained and everything. I'm sure you train some people in class on people and develop some people in our jaws. Some people in very sorta things on by bringing everybody together Kinda let study information. That Training Cross pollinate within the organization. I think an approach is out and approach that you perhaps took their. Oh yeah absolutely absolutely right. So you know We certainly had to ensure that you know individuals were trained technically on how to actually work within the cloud how to administer the cloud how to You know we use a combination of I as has You know how you know. Different individuals need to be Be Need to learn how to operate. Different components of the cloud would be you know just how to work Devops become a huge component of of what? We've what we've done how we've transformed really incredibly important to what we do Beyond that you know Safe scaled agile has become a big part of Oliver Development Shops. We operate very strictly according to those To that methodology and we also are expanding into other areas of our business right so using that across the board wherever we can and then you know. I tell is important as well and it making sure that we have a service delivery model that is scalable and as repeatable and as robust right so all of those different components are really critical to to overall success. I mean everybody has a role to play And you know it's it's upskilling. Everyone not just you know not just the technical folks who traditionally very successful on this side. Yeah 'cause even in my experience with some of the technical folks going into a cloud as a completely different environment. You're not in a data center. You're figuring hardware. Well you're configuring infrastructure for these days as opposed to physical very interesting there you said about the Service management the operation side the idol world. Where in some organizations that seen as a bit of a barrier now little bit bureaucratic. I don't necessarily think that way. I think it has a role to play in operations. When a role to play alongside the devops alongside the scale environment On as a component of the model and no longer being like this is the model. I think that that's important on the sounds like what you have. There wanted to ask you So you doing a lot of things with clouds. Question roundabout some of the other digital technologies. You've got I. O T Internet of things. A are now seems to be the next big thing to take on big data. I you doing anything with those types of digital technologies or are you thinking where they wasn't might do for the business thought absolute lambing in a where one of the largest software companies in the world. Right I mean we're in the top ten And relocated every single. One of them right. I mean it's critically important that we provide a very innovative solution to our customers and an NFL. Just to be frank. It's important not only in the products that we provide. So you know we're helping our customers for instance understand the rates in their market and and make better decisions to maximize their revenue right. We use bi for that but there's also You know a tremendous opportunity for us to take the data and the learnings that we have with respect to our customer set you know we have thousands upon thousands of hotels the US and really globally Take that data and be able to leverage it to inject new features into our products right so we were using big data to help us understand. Our customer said understand what we need to offer for new features and then beyond that. It's not just the products that we need to be able to Provide to our customers. Right it goes well beyond the products. We also have to be offering superior customer service. We you know I would say that. The operations teams are just as important in terms of delivering the product and ensuring success in a cloud based world as the product teams themselves. So we're looking at opportunities with to help us be more effective. We're already using a I in some areas of the business. But we're going to be using a lot more of it and the and the and the days weeks and months and years to come in terms of really helping our costumers make the most and use our products effectively but also helping them to know that they're important to us as a business right so chess so important across the board helping them know that they're important. Yeah I think that's really good. And you mentioned something there but customer service I. I'm a big believer and now this almost call the secret sauce but it's not secret. Put that where we are now. At the technology technology does a great job but the companies that are likely to survive and try over the next five ten fifteen years. I believe it was personally are the wants us to technology. Do things you've mentioned but also the other thing that you hit on which is driving superior customer service. I firmly believe that using these technologies to reduce the cost of customer services. Probably the wrong way to go. The certainly use things like a on big data to help us understand on to automate some of the the thing that we do in customer service to but we need to elevate that level of customer service. Ope Am I think going forward? I think thought to me a call. It secret sauce but I always tell people off told you what. The secret is I think it sounds like in your industry there as well. That's going to be important. I would imagine that. There's a lot of 'em competition in your area now does lot of disrupters coming in or there's lots of people trying to do smaller pieces of the business that you do amsoil. Maybe that's why we'll we'll look at that moment but maybe customer service absolutely is something that can be lifted because we can do a lot of intelligence with digital technologies by always saying that if you look after your customers look after the people They will return and think what you said as well as interesting using somebody's technologies to help understand your customers better but to help them understand maybe what they can get out of this a bit more and because a lot of things that big data is it's only when you go try analyze all this information all the state of into some kind of understandable information that you might actually see things that we missed opportunities. That just weren't thought of before I always think with Internet of things. It's don't quote on Dude Internet of things projects and because you probably file. You'll probably have to do a lot of soul searching before you understand how you come capitalize on on. Iot. Maybe in your industry. I don't know there's areas you're looking at four. I O T that you talk about suicide. It'd be great or if not just general terms juicy Iot is offering some kind of competitive advantage Sensors in some systems that your customers use to drive back information. That's what I certainly I certainly See IOT is something. That's interesting for US right It's it's an important aspect of really any Robust cloud strategy today as `specially. You know if you know. We're looking delivering a wide range of solutions across the industry right. So you know. I is critically important and at one of the areas you know that we We see it as in a property. Management Systems right property management systems in our really defiant heavily by their integrations with other products. Right and so. We're rolling out in a new solution on premise. That can't we can't do everything in the cloud of and he got we. We have to realize that there are some things that have to go on Brown and so on out a new solution their IOT can play a big part in the success of that particular That particular product we also you know have a number of different other solutions and our service optimization space that really you know in order to help hotels be successfully operational operationally. They need to have some odd trump components right. So we're looking at I. O T as a help there a driver to To ensure greater success at market as well so there's just a tremendous amount of opportunity there for Iot. I think across the board and I would be remiss to say you know that we aren't looking at every particular opportunity that comes along to leverage in l. These these various cloud technologies to ensure our You know the best outcome for the entire business who will keep an eye on see. What kind of Technology Solutions You'll plywood iot be very interested in that. We'll come back to that another day. We you heard it here. First from Kent not everything needs to go into a cloud or should go into a cloud fray glad we hear that today because again. There's this big drive to putting everything in at least you know. I've seen a lot of reports over the last couple years of organizations going all into cloud on extracting half of that blackout either cost or rung architecture or just didn't make sense to do that in the first place. So sounds like get your strategy correct from the start. I think it's a right cloud strategy as opposed to a cloud for strategy. Perhaps as what we're hearing so that's good now you mentioned earlier that you've got a lot of 'em I'm sure you have still a lot of legacy. It now legacy doesn't necessarily mean it's by in. That's that's a terrible phrase that we use less a slightly older technology from cloud on their cloud technology. So you have a makes On the that's where most organizations find themselves today as you said not. Everything goes into the cloud and that everything is architect in private clouds. datacenter usage. How do you manage the old with the new APP from a few areas say architecture resiliency scale ability agility security? From some of those big areas. How do you manage the old? It with the new it and aldous digital still sets going on. It's not difficult I would say it's extremely difficult Because number one is you know Amadeus is made up of a number of not only. Did it grow up organically? But it's also made up of a lot of acquisitions. Of course you know each of us and I come from one of them. Each of us come to the table with a different set of technologies that we've been using man so you know to try to bring those together into operate them. Effectively Is is challenging and then beyond that to really integrate not only are it systems. What our products. Because we're we're not only thinking about internal it. We're thinking about empowering the it organizations of our customers right so we're providing technology products that need to integrate as well so it's just tremendously difficult to do to do that But I think again it comes down to having the right people having the right mindset and training the individuals so that they can operate in this hybrid. I want to be careful because that's an overused term as well but you know operated hybrid type environment and that's really really key. The people are key to your success and I want to just say you know just kind of going back to what you were saying earlier. Don't be so focused on the sexy right and I think cloud is kind of reaching the point where it's reaching saturation. But you know there definitely as this mindset of. We've got to go for the sexy we've got to go for you know the buzzed terms and chase after you know what's next but really as a business really think through what you need to transform. Think about where the cloud makes sense where you need to make investments there and and make those investments but think carefully about what should remain on. Prep what you don't need to invest in at the moment and think carefully about how those two areas will intertwine and work together for the betterment of Your Business Right. Yeah loves Ken Ken. I'm Ya we need more of you saying this. I think we need to duplicate you somehow. I said he think people people we see so often I just said the sexiest digital is the cloud is all the tech. I generally kinda trivialize it a little bit to say that the easier bit today. It tends to work out difficult to make it work. You know multi clad multi hybrid legacy. But you can't do it. The hardest thing is bringing the people with you but there to people that make it work. They're two things that make it all. Hang together there too. That's the reason that it gets loosely coupled in the right way I just had to write clad for the right reason the people mindset I think is is where we need to be thinking of this journey to get away from even though it's technology you even said it they're sure your internal. It department has to think like a business because it has to integrate technology when another business. Aso's more business focused first on. Technology is very important but you can have the best tack. If it doesn't integrate business at the end of the day that's right. You've got that mindset in their culture and their doesn't come overnight doesn't come easy but sounds like it's working there so some some some great tips are can as I said we need to get you multiplied somehow and spreading this message now a couple of questions about the industry itself. So I'm you know in general. Are there challenges but in this industry First off top. My head is you know. Are The disruptors coming in? Because a lot of this technology now you'll see him banking retail probably in hospitality that newer organizations. They don't have the legacy. It don't have delayed. You know trying to do and to add to doing small bits of a business process. Are you finding that in in your business that it is open to that or Africa absolutely absolutely business so I think one of the great things of the cloud is it's really are is really an enabler Not only for us to do our thing but for individuals with very little upfront investment to really To really you know take us for a ride in a way they take on the challenge and and some of them are doing exceptionally well. You look at some of the innovators space. And you think. Wow you know that. That is really impressive. So they're able to do some things that you know like you said. I mean it's difficult for us to do because we are. We do have so much legacy and I just said you know. We've got a number of different products that we're still supporting we're still operating still caring for and and so you know It doesn't allow us to to dedicate our full attention to You know to the cloud and to our next generation product. So a big part of what we're trying to do now is is sunset those products move forward and really focus our attention on innovation. Now that said you know. We're you know we're large organization as we don't turn on a dime so it's more difficult for us to put some of the Innovation into the into specific products that maybe other companies smaller nimble or organizations can do so we certainly do have that challenge and we will continue likely to have that challenge to be as quick and nimble as they are however. I think what are selling point. You know what are selling point really needs to be it really is is that we are offering a broad suite of products right so whereas there are individual organizations it can provide a sales and catering solution that can provide a property management solution. They can they can do these things individually but they still need to integrate right. And so what we're we're purporting is that we can really take On a scale that we are we can really take a lot of these individual components in knit them together into holistic solution so the summit greater than the part right. And so. That's how we're looking at things in the cloud really is enabling us to do that More quickly You know again more quickly than we've historically done it. Probably not as quick as so doing their development today but but enabling us to be more quick quick more agile and more of delivering a holistic Set of products and solutions that benefit hoteliers. Yeah that's very true as you said it's a it's a positive cloud enabled us to be quicker than what we were in the past. Maybe not as quick as somebody else. But that's not you're not you know that's not the the all the end all of it is that you have recognised has given you that agility again. Another fantastic phrase. That's probably overused out there. You said something. They're very relevant to industries that are undergoing disruption at the moment I most industries are banking finance said. The hotelier industry is. Well I think one of the what you said one of the key. Factors that can differentiate you because you'll never be as quick. A member of these new starts is your focus on integration integrating all the challenger products and services that may come back into the wider mesh off products and services that you provide so we end up being as well as providing services for the ones that you may not provide that your customer may say well look this just companies doing something a little bit different different price point. We WanNA get that. You still get to touch that part of that by being the integrator on. I think that's where organizations that are of a big size as you said these legacy traditional we've got cloud you know we don't move on some of these smaller startups whatever is kind of compete with them. But the integration. I think integrator announced key is taking all these small business sayings alongside a wider sweet integrating that seamlessly and I think it gives control back to organizations like theirselves control. Not being a bad phrase you know from a customer point of view. They don't want to deal with forty or fifty different little glares they still want to deal with. The Amadeus World Wonders Challenges Nations and changes to be doing new things. So I think that's a good space to be in. I think I I I agree and I think the thing to keep in mind there is that you know there's integrations everywhere right. I mean we live in an integrated world right. The beauty of being the provider of all the solutions is that you have control over how they integrate our bustling they integrate one of the challenges that we have in property management space is that you know these these these these property management systems to integrate with a lot of third party applications. It is incredibly difficult to not only get them integrated and certified certified the integrations though so to keep them running. And so I think that leads into the you know the second point here. Is You know I think customers appreciate having one throat to choke and I hate to sound. So crass there but you know. I. It's the beauty of being able to work with one organization is that you can say okay. You're providing my property management system. You provided my sales and catering system you make the more right and so I think that that lay puts us. You know obviously sometimes difficult situation. But I think it's a beauty for our customers is a great selling point. I think it is on. I'm sure you'll agree. Sometimes you know it's difficult because that's business at the end of the day you're working with the customer. Judah thing it allows organizations of your size to do is to again you know you can only do so much innovation and still is to let the market let other organizations do those smaller business processes and eater integrates a man as an item or possibly acquire them as a quicker way of doing innovation at the end of the day so some various strategies there which. I'm sure you're you. You probably look at isn't quick questions for you. So am we'll we'll just throw some of these out and see where we go with these so a question on 'em is cloud saying there's a way to save money or drive innovation or both in in your in your view. Oh absolutely both absolutely does I mean number one. As if you think you'RE GONNA save money out of the gate. I think you're you're not seeing things completely clearly Because it does it does take investment. Right you're going to change. Strategy is going to change the way you're doing things it takes. It takes time it takes money. It takes You know the things that we've talked about right so so number one is not gonNA save you money out of the game and number two is. I think you've got to really recognize that. The cloud takes regular oversight and tuning in order to maximize the efficiency that you get out of it right. It's kind of like you know the legacy days you know we could leave You know our systems running and and and it wasn't a big deal. It was paying the electric bill. Now we're paying a lot more if we decide to leave all the lights on so we really need to have individuals constantly watching at reviewing and You know just you know ensuring that you know The right aspects of the cloud are being utilized at the right times and so that's really critically important but also as I said you know. Innovation is a critical aspect. As well I mean you know now as an organization we're able to spend a lot less time thinking about compute networking and storage and we can spend a whole lot more time thinking about what features we need Market and how we can really help our customers succeed. So you know it's it's it's really you know it's a win win but it does. It does take work. Hit those take a good point there but the the the financial aspect of it as well firm believer we teach us. If you're going into cloud it is gonNa cost you something front. Its New the project. It's going to be learned on if you don't switch things off in this environment that the meter runs quite aggressively. Let's say so. So so good but Eugen ovation. Their question is digital transformation journey or a destination. What's your view? I'll definitely both off definitely both but I would say more on I. Would I would focus more on the journey side? Yes yes you know. The the reality of the situation is is that Technologies Co. is constantly changing constantly changing. So what we might realize success with today Is is really going to be vastly different. You know a few years from now so we need to constantly be evaluating constantly looking at changing the way that we do things. Constantly evaluating new technologies. See where it makes sense to make changes right so I I really firmly believe that you know. We're on this journey. It's probably a journey. That will likely never end. Hopefully won't stop right right. Sometimes we certainly feel that way right but but I do think it is and and you know again you know many companies like I I think. Hospitality is a great example. I think they've in many ways been somewhat slow to adopt technology You know and sometimes they live in a little bit behind the curve and It's it's it's definitely You know the opportunities that lie ahead of these organizations that realize what technology can do them as just It's just it's just a really eye-opening and and it's amazing that the transformation to their their revenue to their bottom line by adopting the right technologies. That's only did this years ago. We did this back in the forties and fifties with mainframes and seventies eighties getting into distributed computing. Different technologies means. What you mentioned there as well as It's a journey but I like to think of it as a technological journey and a journey at the same time almost like two people pushing the technology on to the train closing the doors going with it to the next station and doing something with it Along the way the big focus on Cybersecurity Quite rightly so but I mean a question for you estimate for cybersecurity. Kind of over hyped. These days are as necessary before we go to the cloud securities baked in. We don't need to think about it anymore. Would you have any? Oh I wish that were the case. Don't we meddle with somebody else's problem Now the reality is a cyber security is more important than ever. I mean just more important than ever and you've really got to be thinking carefully about You know how you're implementing you gotta be really looking at What you need to do in terms of controls and You know it takes a lot more upfront. Planning than I think it did. Years Ago Yes you know yeah. The cloud providers are providing a service and they provide. Pci compliant services but just because the individual components are complying for instance doesn't mean that the overall solution you build is PC. I comply. Let's you really use your head here and think through what you're doing how you're putting the components together and you're thinking carefully about the end result And you know the reality is there are new. We're seeing this Repeat over and over again. You know these vulnerabilities These THREAT ACTORS. That are out there. I mean they're becoming more sophisticated cybersecurity. Hands Down is more critical than it's ever been low. I think some of these Threat Actors are probably using some of this latest technology themselves in order to be able to do better cyber attacks at the end of the day. You hit it there compliancy is. I've come across quite a lot where a clap Vita will say where peace compliant. They are the data center for a small part of the entire service. That's been given on. I always think that you you should not a new kind of outsource responsibility on the counter. While security the style with your organization on Europe people those leaders in charge. That's where it should you. CanNot you can attempt to outsource but you cannot really give away at the end of the day books which organization let me. Just let me just stay real quick to you. Know I worked for Microsoft for nearly two years and you know I've I've been working with Microsoft technology or for some time and you know You know if you look at. For instance you look at the components. There are a number of components there that are Peace Gi compliant. And so they'll say you know. Hey pc you've got we've got a piece of compliant solution to offer you. The reality is you've got to look at every component individually. You've got to look and make sure is this component really PCI compliant. And if I take these two pieces icon bones and put them together for if terms of a billion solution is the end result. The some of those two components right is your solution because you've built it. You've used these components so I love it some of these components as you said compliance from a security perspective. I knew how to look at that list from what you've built with these parts. Low at a I I. I still see case studies. We still see references of organizations and CEOS. It leaders and CEO's trying to outsource security problem. It's not a problem. You know. Invest in it. It's something to be invested in. Because if you don't it will be a problem and there's lots of case studies out there at the moment said that people can go find simple question for you. Can I love this one moving? It but it's from topics to Apax is a good thing. Yes no yes. It's a good thing I mean. That's I mean it's it's kind of a foregone conclusion at this point right so But I do think it's it's a lot of You really have to educate your teams internally right finance teams. We went through this years ago. with our teams and helping them understand the impact. And you know the value of doing what we're doing so again. I think it's a good thing I think it's a foregone conclusion that it's happening. We're not GONNA stop that train as just a matter. It's up to us to really educate our internal teams as to as to the value of it. How To do it? That's one of the biggest challenges we've seen is educating outside of it as finance The government even legal from contracts perspective. I'd consider in. That though is an once you go into an op. Ex affects now again. Depends on the size of your organization. Cayenne related more to casual so you need to be very cash flow positive to pay the tax bill. I was a guest on the other thing might be the cost of getting capital. Sometimes CAPEX model might be cheaper but again. Can you buy a lot of this equipment with Capex while you're not you're really leasing or renting it for periods of time so it's it's wanted to consider biggest thing though we say the challenge is the internal challenge in getting people's minds switched around as to remove into a different model? Is it right model water to considerations and I think really mark? I think it's. It's really about you know that's one aspect of evangelizing internal right. I think you know we. We are You know we're really good. A lot of us are really good at technology. Really good at digging in and understanding complex problems and and trying to build new solutions but the reality of the situation is that we really need to be good evangelists and turn away This is a you know. Moving to the cloud and digital transformation is a real Mont shift change and going back to the whole people argument We really need to do our best to convince people of the value of that. I went through I went through this a couple of years ago when I came back to the the Amadeus Organization and was focused on. You know sunsetting products right and you know again. It was not something we'd ever really done before. Like we're just GONNA keep running these products products carpeting and be happy. And there's not going to be any problems but the reality is we had to sunset products and so it was a huge evangelist evangelistic effort across the nation. Painful painful but you know the outcome has been tremendously good for the organization in terms of the revenue that we've been able to reap from transitioning customers as well as just focusing our attention more on on innovation focusing it on our cloud based products and and really helping our customers Transform their business. Yeah very good point as you said I think I t does have to be the evangelist of this technological change but not just from the technology side we have to know that but we also have to know the impact the business people on the benefits until pitfalls as you said even we have to some set the old some of the older stuff to enable us to do things and better things getting true so as an evangelist We we're gonNA feel pain as you said but we have to believe and we have to drive that thinking we have to have passion We have to believe in the story. No the message. No the journey were going on understand the destination. It's not it's security is important. Visit this nation there to destination will probably never reach but I think two fold all that into our thinking I think there is a challenging time at the moment where am i. I'm saying a change in people would nit Whether they're coming in to it today or they've been in it for twenty thirty forty years those that will survive now. Despoil of change are the ones that will start thinking like that. I'm behaving like that. Which is good to see on. People are doing that To find wounds am devops great replacement for it service management. That's come up before so I wanted to pick your brains or is it a replacements than some people believe. I don't think so. I don't think so. I think they augment each other very well exactly sure but devops is not a replacement I think devops is. I'm a big proponent of devops methodology right. We gotta be careful how we used the term to a lot of people throw devops around and means different things to different people but if you really look at what it is is that all AJI and so you know I think it works very well in tandem with it service management. Frankly I think I agree with you there to me. Their components at we knit together as you said greater. Done some of the pox. What we're aiming for. I think devops brought some new thinking in Especially with all this digital technology that so Amusing the words again. All these buzzwords. But it's so flexible and scalable. But you have to have more open a of doing things quicker five-star getting philosophy which is great but only seen case studies of replacing the service management function. Which I don't think is the way to go. Because you still need the operation side that customer service in needs transcended it from product into service goes without service. All you have is products if you don't have any way of differentiation Neva commodity. That's what I think the challenge. Maybe you have a comment on this. The challenge is seen in a lot of industries. I've spoken personally is devops has become a silo. The same way service management became a silo on a supporting. The two of them. Together is to challenge. We know they've upstairs. We note service management. This people have been doing them long enough. Now it's getting them together and I think what happens is in us as I think pretty common as that we hone in on the sexy so devops can take us to whole new levels and we forget about the IT service management part of it we forget the elements there that Help us be successful in other areas? Business Right so. I just a firm believer. And let's be really careful about over hyping certain terms and certain methodologies that are appealing to us and making show looking at the whole picture love at the whole picture their final question in this in this little quickfire 'em agile is better than waterfall product management similar to have applied. Dsm Yes no. Maybe I'M GONNA BE I'M GONNA be shot with us but I I definitely think there's a there's a place for both and I'm safe certified. You know I've gone through the training. I I believe in it. I'm a big proponent of it but you know I certainly see value Certain areas for waterfall right. And you know for instance you know we. As my team has been focused heavily on Kinda revolutionizing how? We Migrate Customers from from our legacy products to our newer products. Right yes we you know. We've realized that the way that we need to deliver it fits better in waterfall model. It just fits better so you know we. We've taken that approach now again. Our Organization our organization in many other parts of the organization. I've really tried to do adopt scaled. Agile and they've done very successfully but it doesn't work in every case so I just really challenged to take a close look at. What your outcomes. Nee Debate and figure out what methodology works the best for you. Lou? The thinking think of the outcomes them thing. The methodology thinks end results for work backwards. I'm a big proponent. The working backwards. I see that as well We see so. Many people are breaking their organizations against so agile and everything on its wo does not suit situation here in of course it will he step back and this on boarding you go. Whoa no it doesn't so yeah it's the same it's about making it relevant than having. I think having all these components that you call it as as a minute nate. Can't we're coming to the end? Final thing I any final words maybe on how digital technologies on services maybe a above and beyond. What we said are just changing. You Know Your Industry. In in general terms or yeah. I think it's huge in the hospitality space. I think it's a an untapped opportunity that you know I. It's coming our way really. You know if you really take a look at how air travel is transformed over the last ten to twenty years. You think about what you were doing you know. Even twenty ten years ago With respect to how you bought tickets and how you He utilized those tickets. And how you checked in and and even how you bought seats You know it's completely changed and in many ways for the better. It's been fantastic. Customer Service experience a experience for many individuals But it's also given the airlines awesome new revenue opportunities or you just think about not only the way that they sell. Sir Sell Sections or sell seats. But also you know well really differentiating those seats based on location on the plane How much legroom. They have You know and also just having the ability to to select a seat when you buy your ticket right. It seems pretty basic. But they're using those those opportunities to drive new revenue into their business which is fantastic so the hospitality business is is at the emphasis stage here. But there's tremendous opportunity and tremendous upside with respect to You know transforming digitally leveraging the cloud leveraging solution providers such as US and others others out there too but such as us that really are trying to integrate a lot of these products and enable them to do many of the same types of things that the airline industry has has been doing for a decade key integration there as well and the opportunity is phenomenal. I think maybe in the IT world that we exist in as well is if we can get more into knowing the technologies and from a business perspective trying to help the business understand how we might be able to solve a customer challenges today or solve challenges that have yet to come up which is true opportunity going forward. That's Great Okay Ken. Ken Wilson from Amadeus. It groups. Thank you very much for joining us on today. Ccc Talks Mark. Thank you so much for. Having me really enjoyed the opportunity talk show. We'll talk soon. Thank you very much. Thank you for joining this episode of CCC talks. We hope you enjoyed this episode and walk away with a ton of actionable insights if this is your first time joining us. This is US extending a personal invitation to you to join other and business professionals. So please subscribe on itunes youtube or Google play if you are struggling in any capacity in your digital transformation journey contact. We'd be more than happy to guide you and find you the right certification courses to help you manage the challenges. Modern businesses are facing this was CCC talks until next time.

cloud US Amadeus CCC Ken Ken Ken Wilson Europe Microsoft Amadeus Acquisitions Amadeus Mark Google Cooper Nettie Managing Director Iot official NFL amsoil
Building an AI-Powered Organization

CCC Talks

38:28 min | Last month

Building an AI-Powered Organization

"Welcome to ccc. Talks empowering not and business professionals in their digital transformation journey find all the latest tips tricks and strategies at our blog and resource center at cloud credential dot org and now our host ccc managing director marco laughlin everybody and welcome to another edition of cc. Talks with marco laughlin on the cloud credential council today john by massimo baloney who was a data scientist machine learning engineer and previously. You were data sign on team. Lean housing anywhere. Mexico's thank you for joining us on. Ccc talks yeah. Thank you for having me. Thank you for having me. Great now my will tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do yet. I'm a data scientist that much loving engineer because he studied computer engineering. So it's something that you chase me for the for the rest of my life. I wanted to as data science like three fs ago when my career started. Because he didn't want to be are undeveloped like to end developer. Let's say and as we science and then when it was thought can do with their first steps into into the field. I discovered that gen. My computer engineering skills were fundamental for a beating data science at least in early stage companies and so as we morning. Today right sean. Also taking not just on the amoled modeling part of the things about those indeed deployments of fencing in production and so indian defy. Look at what. I'm doing at the moment even for my leading getting lincoln. Veggies rescinded assigned this Very life machine. Learning engineer os in the past was taking care of more data engineering related tasks. And i'm doing a little bit off of everything when he comes through. Moving data or modest production able who they gotta the end when cycle. Let's say yet enough to keep you busy on any given day. Now what we heard from our folks them. You're heavily involved in the development of a fraud detection system powered by a i for the housing anywhere and then will i heard that. Said we must get you out of the guests to tell us about. This is kind of that case study beforehand though for those who don't know housing anywhere in their own. Words is the world's largest retail accommodation platform that brings together demand supply of midterm housing. For example international students experts young professionals looking for you know a new home. The book room apartment or studio or platform so tell authors fraud detection system powered by us housing anywhere yet First of all these project itself was also my Masterpiece Leading did he did sell publicly available. Some other bougie my name and ali data. So you can go in there as much as you want on the technicalities of the of the project as you said i mean. I was getting ready Amazing marketplace where people are free to create listings on these plots from us. You can easily managing a the netherlands. You see these wedding leading our one of the companies based a fraud and scams in housing market. That are huge And so it's common. It's it's at they problem people try to create listings on-the-spot for justice common users. I was getting worst booting any sporting against effort to make the marketplace as safe as possible And so we created not be intelligence. That i mean the agency scrape scrape thought about is able to distinguish when at least he's a scam okla scum when he's on the the website and then there were some operations and he's on top of that allowing delete listings. When when you're at the beginning diligence will shooting off that these things were where a scam or like moved to motivation from listening to rules by the by intelligence. Wasn't sure when other essentially let's say that the listing was actually a scam. So it wasn't just jackie evancho. Intelligence technology was also the location in processes that was be on top of the occupational intelligence that that was also the thing that contributed to the success of the of the product itself and thousand. One you must have key was. I'm right in saying that. A fraud detection system bet built on a m. You could get people to do the type of work but is it the a quicker because that'll be keys. Let him fraud detection where you know if you if you did do the you could put people in eventually figure it out. But while speeds off detection a key thing and using a on the problem righty. The world thing started at the at the beginning was mother of scale. Because it's not just a matter of because a well-trained a human professional is probably i mean. Probably not a squeak. Because he's another of music owned by decently Compatible business wise doi- run-up to be turning agents Defeating even if it's through that very complicated cases a steeler needs some of the racial Is that on on a big mark. thanks for weeks and some cases that are very easy to detect not. We don't have to be joining that in in those cases are being week. Buddy signed to keep the the human experience is just one of the cases that that really needed the these the because each just gained when you're talking about thousands of cases today you need someone that held saudi human that On i think that's that's key in there you know and dr organizations when they're thinking about a stop to think of. Oh my jobs under threat or my hair's going somewhere else. Or whatever that is but journey the mostly thinking that get to do the the miniscule for the the repetitive still. Keep your style for develop your staff to look at those complex cases is not the minds of the should be looking at each deligence. Yes i mean my personal being an expert on the field. Let's say is that the people that are scared out featuring deligence for the complexity of artificial intelligence are people that don't work in the field and they will. It's out of sight movies. Because if it's through that the between digest an end out it's it's completely threw by the agencies very good in very specific dusk for beginning they are but the more complicated the star the more specific day up So through that we have to leverage occupation intelligence for very for a complicated as we but very specific and somali baked because again these in the debone. Diligence or mush learning. If you were used the not only to the scope of these indian you are training. I'm all that accomplish such. You wish we'd some data these specific and therefore yes. I don't think that intelligence every place human moderators or human executor's at all. You just have to reduce the scope of more than as you have seen graphically used them or leverage humans when you actually have more more value out of them for very complicated and battery zone cases also scum. Because it's not one hundred sarah all on everything that's true. That's the same for finance banking insurance. Whatever these industries are is keep the human element and those complex things because the council complex do like your tips there about too engrossed into the sci fi movies of ai is because i think sometimes there is no absolute disconnect between what fi shows a must really happening in the state. When or how did you start thinking that. I would help me. It was something that you arrived at after a process was at the fraud detection. Johnny way we're to get on top of this. That was you know the media thing to look at or if you have to number of steps to to actually make the case for i want to stress. Again the fact that division deligence business is successful as processes that will be looked at When i joined the company was not. I mean he's he's vati fusco. Waiting company where era we are the result of an increasing number of things that were created And of course we're already talking in some sense prevention for detection because scientist sensitive the company and us all the companies that start from scratch in these in these were using rules fix coded like if i news log seen macedo suspicious county if i knew seen from different together. Other seasons of diplomacy means that when the mom goes by like the days. And they start accumulating these rules and they become complicated mess Fool of rules that you don't know how successful they are not successful so the very first step because i mean actually look at the bureau phoenicians also a set of rules or hard. Coded routes easing the turning diligence. Because intelligence can also be a a set of. It's about the first theft the long-term vision on a play much learning on the data's the very first thing was like wonder stand out these rules that were in place where actually a meaningful or not and many times Comments where sleepy now from the set of rules that we had when we discovered that they've as majority of their who's were completely useless and steal the amount of come was leaping out from that system and where regarding yuma moderators chase them on the platform. We start the thinking about actually approach considering the Lucky enough that the That the did the blinds for marketing and use that as a scumbag. A despite being flagged by the rooster not already in place so we already add freer. Forty world for data work on So off looking at rules. Because i mean the end. These rules were successful enough. That were that there's not going to do something more complicated Roots are indeed missing scum we data and he's ck's use case because again like going technical is a by bussey vacation problem. You have great. You don't have lots for maura transactional bank account for the throat. And you have to say if it's a scam or gob ends up band. Basic setting for superbike mushy. Let me i. I think the interesting as you said that you can have rules become more rules and actually become so complex. What is what is trying to do. The end of the day and then probably backward engineer. The elected you mentioned about you know it's only as good as the processes you have in place because you're trying to use a are to jeeva process so if you don't know the process really is how's the any i won't fix it will do. You can have a an update featuring diligence Muster learning geiger that he's as refine does advance as we said he's probably go conferences over the war than being praised by the experts by indian. If your end goal is not research by itself might be that a g. pitifully super complicated and it'd be more than one seat accompanied that there a defense case i that he is the difference between people that do apply Like data scientist in companies and researchers said working institution with khumbu different. Gory mind yet indeed. And and walk. Ron of a is blue. Did you use you know various public. I don't just private variance but the different variants out there. Amd you go to the public type solutions. Did you develop something in house. A hybrid type deter solution when used as an end when Science project described broad About we didn't use in the looking at the world cycle anything that was private or not open source. I mean we are lucky enough working in the science or machine learning that basically everything that used by me and my free time or used by google when when he's working out super complicated enforcer improvement learning models he's open source So basically you're libraries that you wish to use or open source of law kayla's by dr She keeps her around us. Know by it's everything open source So you can do that against research we using the same doors that the Experts in the field are using and so in our case was exactly the same If i have to talk about the tools that we used to we were using a from the like a number on thus she could learn the first more than the one that actually was. somebody must've easiest Was an extra boost that he's been sued Guardians of worc- decision. Three than when we started it due date on the on the initial project. Because i mean being successful we also had by infiltrating on that We started using gm. That is an open source microsoft implementation of the of the same dot. Let's say than yet but in general For the for the deployment than when you started they blowing machines and so that machines can be cannot be for free on the cloud. The us dr we used to your. I mean the who do really impacting. It's our field where you don't have to have a lot of investments at least for tooling about investment on people and on skis exceeded about tooling itself is comes for free from your time to actually Develop a stop thinking about something meaningful that you need from is that is another floppy gets unique to invest mandate but yes. I love interesting that you the open source model. It is common special development and data science field are pre kind public. A solution from some of the big majors. That are out there on. What we're seeing is kind of a hybrid approach. Where if you want true. I guess Flexability open sources in the by the way to go although he duly black and actually use the open source and some are using a little bit of a yard from the clouds majors because they're invested in there anyway and then trying to use a bit of open source as well one from awesome time To be from a flexibility perspectives. That the might be able to get more adamant but you just say the key thing. These things can be cheap. Solutions can be cheaper but you do need good quality people in there with the skills to make these work for miss with a. It's not so much. The folks on the technology is the focus on the people on the process on the understanding. Walk business solution. We're trying to solve your case fraud detection. And and then there's a value to the home anywhere which is a saving money on on fraud. Ambig- staying out of the press by having you know bad reviews because Increase odes sam. I think you're right. That jess technology is won't part. It's an important part but it's not necessarily the woman wear the biggest investment goes in and so companies do forget that is to people in the process of redoing the beginning because in the end when you have. But he's not really rated data science but if we have product that scale that he's is consuming computing resources. But it's it's not really. The science council starts to engineering that Out your by Use for the for the resources and can be can be expensive but he's topic when you already have something that his upscale and he's probably generating revenue already so it's a problem. I'm a lot of positions. We spoke over the years about some of them have invested heavily in. Am succeeded invest heavily. Absolutely failed so don't have knock invested Have expected locks in in your journey. Here was an adequate budget The initial the left to start or did you have to prove the case to get the budget to do a bit to them. Get more bojan. We have a couple of topic seattle that he's a. I mean he a threat. Nowadays we best debuting data science but he came out to whatever whatever whatever. But that's what you were saying earlier. It's not that. I mean the science diligence or scored machine learning according to whatever you want. It's not a uneasy feeling best. Because return of investment. A lot of variables. You can have the best people. You've done the all different. Keep the business itself for the product itself or if the process itself is not fit for a is he's not really a mother of investments. So it's it's it's complicated Yes i mean at the beginning. Really add the freedom to experiment. And i had time to To bring solution that was working and then yet my buying from the from the business taty. I think that he's quite the golden rule for when you do the science at least in early stage you do. I mean it's it's through that you should ask for some investments beforehand or more some buy in from the business before and but he's also a problem in data science that data scientists try in every tendency we in phoenix on something without actually giving the business who asked as mentioning before it still through the a solution that from data science perspective might be nothing special or not research better. Words can ever nice impact on our business enough who started that process of buying investments and stuff and data scientists who understand that the The sooner they leave the measure it is And then there is. Then we'd be more time for Iterating or like doing some more the the edge of the of the state of the art why they also be that are the result of complaints. Companies are not investing. I think that also data scientist should understand. The delivering fast is a value Yeah like lentil from engineering that we should booth a little. Bit of engineering mindset in science led to deliver fast. That's their good points. I think the lancet liver fast. It's not that you have to deliver the final solution. But you're delivering zaba along. The way are bits of folks -nology or concepts into reality. Not the whole thing i think. That's you get incremental budget along the way. Think if you're trying to solve everything at the won't go. We've seen it before it could take too long and the business think voter things to do or vest elsewhere. So yeah we've seen that as well with our em case of these. I guess on on a where they tried to get all the investment fronton. They didn't get it so effectively closed down or they got investment will talk too long am or as you said did not zengin airing mindset. When you're building a play you don't engineers back with finished product that come back with dc. Say this list list. We get it all together. We'll be flying high so the thing that's interesting. What typical challenges to do face like ai capabilities you management. We're open source but a costs. Technology integration challenges is processed challenges. People challenges challenges were in there. I think that the most complicated stuff In data science is not really Because i mean when you have the right skills developing a model with all the right conditions ease instantly. Easy or at least doable. The most begin integrating your solution at scale with existing existing product. That is the most of because they feel that out of like one other. At the center of data science project starts the percentage of logic deduction he can manage through the action Products connected to an existing product exceeded i. It's it's a very very small percent that so the most engaged stop by not just for molly expedience about. He's probably the biggest problem enough to join intelligence audience in this decade Bringing a modern productions and so we've been challenged that they settled the most we've Also because we go back to initial boeing that to be successful as a data scientist in an early stage company at least you have to fill the gap to throw speaking engineers because the experts we think or we assume that everything is easy to comprehend and the Any top use. But it's also true that like the end these speeding johnny apps to start using your solutions. and so you must complicated stop was to i. I mean speak to business people and make them excited and make them understand what you're beating barry dumping complicated if you have the right mindset. There must be stopped. He's actually deliver something tangible in production. We didn't jalili best practices that going to production at scale s. So definitely sees the most complicated to yeah. We see that with the digital technologies. Cloudy big data that. It's not difficult to get people to write skills to do something with it was the big challenge comes with great into what you already have received. That was the cloud integrating back into traditionally and now that we're at the challenges at the integration layer which actually comes back to the organization themselves because you kathy. Lee outsource the management layer. I think Sounds sesame here at what you said. There are about language really good as well. I'm talking to the engineers part of the business about what this is. How it works in your language. But then transcribing that into their language. I'm something that you understand because how you sailor described that to engineer is different what you're saying to the business. I would think completely different things. Because when you speak to as you have to Cabal performances and audi demata perform about really for engineers any any social astonishing. Debbie somali leaving engineer. Don't care about what the motive is doing. They just scared about the l. communicate. We did so real problems that are not laughing and it's It's a good thing. Of course because i mean as a scientist between the words about the technology and the develops a best. Practice is not what helping out in this direction. Because i mean inner again just care about documents about images just get about on day. We have to connect east acceder y business. He's more what was actually wants to jump being inside modern defend our. It's our audience is there. Was this the first time that housing anywhere has used a on a again. I mean they can t muster learning. Yes a again is is up a couple of the article detroit. He's already but much. Learn like super learning yet was the was the first thing for machine learning and did they have adequate skills. Now you side but adequate skills feeling and your team or did you have to bring in extra skills sam. I'm you know. Bring that up to level Also disease is is a broad topic. Because i mean we have to. I understand something that the market is declined grandstand properly. Which are the skills that make scientists my venos- for example someone that people might have opinion and the americas eden i'm final agreement yet I think that the that we add enough skis on on the modeling side. What we were seeing was but it's common to basically ninety five percent of the companies around the world What we were missing was the expedients in bringing modest food production. A i personally. Today's because with the one of the first i in these in these areas then of course we were a lot of talent more talented people than me as as it should be. I get personnel to these a. We'd speaking we didn't daddy's mauri more than us out of the skills that you have to Develop or that. You're missing as professional easily. Abridged that the first person that in company is a is busy with the science for the world s The i was the first person that actually be these bridge between davis audience engineering Dumping that you can invest or demand. You can have the best people but the struggle of building this bridge for the first project that we'd always be there. Yeah i think that's interesting for organizations to remember that the with machine learning daddy. It is still new. You're bringing new products to market at. You're bringing them different leaks or developing them differently. So you know the will be the time man. This is first and they may have some machine. Learning products in the past. This project may be totally different that this is the first into the market as well. So that's very interesting. That is not only. Do we have to skills and the people will do. We have the mindset that this is new in here new to market on all of the comes with it and to be able to deal with because of charges a lot of challenges there but you have to push through those different to you brought a new product to market. Everyone knows about bringing product market. But nobody knows about this. Particular product is generally the case everywhere. You go it's it's new it is i think of such wonderful part of the world read and also very challenging part of the world tower in these days. Is there any best practice available but can be applied to a on a machine learning or is the best practice still being developed at the moment. I mean the we have to wear a best taking can lead tour. I mean in the end that muster learning is using production scale probably ten years. So i m seeing that the well established lethal there are some things that for example for me and all the people that they speak we speak about these topics i m sure but may also be the deeper with a completely different experience might savings on the on the contrary for me really under standing that the at the beginning of these the of the better deliver foster Being ready to get your hands dirty with a lot of engineering at least at the beginning because if you want if you want to work in an early stage company or also the companies that are in a big escape someone before you did it for you. You really have to get your under a lot of engineering Stuff because the science these these actually the one that can be a demo and bring it to production then when when the fast easy process gets more often than the someone that kennedy Can be lucky enough to just will condemn all terrain. Because then there is someone that he's being into production and he's also useful weapon for more engineering related jobs. In the beginning everyone was care of everything and then like jobs got very very specific. Like a big develop. Better like they've walked. When went years ago. People that were breaking the code Also involved with the we did deployment data. Science is doing the same feeling like at the beginning. There were people we did now. We have data signed engineer house. Now we have data scientists engineers engineers We have outs people. Ma lots people now. The market is going to be more granular Mean at the early stage at the beginning you have to. You have to get your dirty you after the deliver fast. Don't spend too much time in improving zero dot zero zero one percent accuracy. Because no-one curse business be honest that the trump so what. We see risen absence in best practice not only combs after years of in so. I think that's really good advice. Get your hands dirty practice with it. Deuce very small incremental to get it out there you said nobody cares for the big thing two years down. The road need ceaselessly. Now listen to the communities. Somebody else might have experienced share with god. It's an exciting time to be in. I think the big time before best practice condemned unlocks are thinking. Down that we're allowed to experiments. I don't think that's a bad place to begin with this because a month. Sure you know there will be around of you're fraud. Detection system will be best practice for security in best practice for governance of best practice reparations. That's in the chain somewhere book for the bit we're talking about it's gotta be experimental because nobody knows the answer right now. I met we have these types of tools. i think. that's what data science is. All about isn't an exploration as well. Yep definitely definitely. I mean the. It's one of the. Was the reason why this idea to sweep through the the science because in the end is a job that changed not every day. Because he's he's like from one project that or at least from wandering through that When you as shopping data science you started a competing live because starting from are also for mike as incoming from yahtzee market which my business and my job competency change. Why when you do engineering mighty indian even if you change the business Your day to day tends to be more seeming to the deputies one sweet Innovative remond guedes its exploration. It's something that that restores. The processes of eighty today for our to to better integrated the science science. We the of the of the business. Yeah i think the understanding needs to go back into the business about what science really is rather than fix this problem. It's going to explore. How how we do this. Do you have any other advice for organizations looking at a To solve some action or whatever that is is only one or two pieces of advice that you would give an organization after your experience the my experiences i mean then the ban on this stage of the of the company. Because it's not true that every the advice feeds for companies but if he had the data first of all is a field where the where very good god of talents is tim. Universities So i mean i don't want a used scotts Mastering the failures that are growing in there because on also discourses have their across constant knee. Personally more everyday. I or the nephew with studied kasich or computer engineering. Bottom and keeping be keep in mind that the That being the field quite new some dying set bins that are Adjusted guy with thailand and willingness to who do might Deliver better weaker than are more season professional with five or six have some experience in the in the field. Because i mean it's data sciences new. It's not always through that the Expedience actually being volume production By being open in looking at the More than the experience that they bring the bringing the mean. If you want to open a senior scientist position do we buy your soul into to check for jacinta. Just cannot wait guys or girls order that the it might be more talented And then there is a little bit of my buy yes When it was an ivy manager before in it might be company at the beginning I think that computer engineering skills are important. So at the very beginning worry is data scientists. That come from morning geneva Begging on betty spacey feek Data science experts that come from a mathematical. Beg on while mean wendy when the game is more established people that started a pure science or statistics or math are bad a way better remodeling. Some of mindset outweigh ned. What the computer engineer. Who will ever three mother of skills also mindset because they're delayed and time to spend more time in modern the stage. I recommend to go for engineers wine. On a later stage i would is more. Phd oriented i s. Let's good thank you teach skills but you need to develop says well over time as well so you have maximum we recently had at tira buyers on 'em she's from targeting the us and she's heavily involved in women in it and inclusivity. Do we have enough women in the data scientists roles or that sums in the industry is lacking from your experience from what you can see. Daping talking to mike. When it was on every manager was involved in interview eats really sad to see. Out percentage of girls doing interviews east terminus. Use lido than boy used up doing interviews. And i honestly don't think that that he's a buy yes in the recruitment process that he's a bias in the number of application that come from a bios In the early it's it's through that also from my experience when it was studying engineering There were few girls or women in my glasses. any you buyers that he's starting to keep saying in generating and data science jobs Jobs for for women eh needs. It's completely. I mean it's completely through there are there are any reason tiny finger reason for which are gershon getting the introduce field any something that we should try to wish. Would i change society and people in these In this field. I mean me personally being in this field i should try to do my best to be more not inclusive because i mean it's not that i i ever had any eric processes but right to be more Sell better our fields worse than women that the that we are really waiting for them because there is no not. He's not getting into this field. There is yet at times another retirement into. It's more societal problems where the women may understand. What because you look around the camp associated with because his lack of women there anyway so it's not a community that is there something she is trying to. Maybe it will change as we go but at great coming ask him any final words. Have organizations concede with their a on a machine learning goals ambitions. Any final tip young talented people and let them explore and experiment and Lost in space for experimenting and delivering on your other side. These people should also remember the fast And not and not over over being about every single elimination detail. But yeah i mean the Gave more freedom to. I would people in science and the end. The world is full of talented people in universities especially and give them the defeat open. Men and to bring value to the product because denial of louisville About data science that doric required to do either complicated models about really can be can be achieved very seen data inspectable of course very simple modeling. Can you jerk on of investments in any. But he knows that you are. Is i would sane you on probably it is but you have to back and for the housing anyway said publicly available the work that you did on that soy soon. If people look for maximal baloney Anywhere in google. They'll find the work that you've done. Which would be great. As a great case study we saw. We said we're gonna get you on to talk about it so our listeners can go find out as well as air more so that's no baloney. Thank you so much for joining us today on. Ccc talks the pleasure. Thank you for joining this episode of ccc taw. We hope you enjoyed this episode. Walk away with a ton of actionable insights. If this is your first time joining us this us extending a personal invitation to you to join other. It and business professionals. So please subscribe on itunes youtube or google play if you are struggling in any capacity or digital transformation journey contact us. We'd be more than happy to guide you and find you to write certification courses to help you manage the challenges. Modern businesses are facing. This was ccc talks until next time.

marco laughlin cloud credential council massimo baloney vati fusco jackie evancho ccc zengin center of data science project bussey jalili Cabal performances Debbie somali maura geiger yuma the netherlands sean science council lincoln bojan
Fostering Inclusivity & Diversity in the Tech Industry

CCC Talks

37:24 min | Last month

Fostering Inclusivity & Diversity in the Tech Industry

"Welcome to ccc talks empowering at and business professionals in their digital transformation journey find all the latest tips tricks and strategies at our blog and resource center at cloud credential dot org and now our host ccc managing director marco laughlin. Hello everyone and welcome to another edition of cc. Talks with marco loughlin on the cloud credential council today we're joined by tyra buyers who is lead product owner at us retailer target Also a member of the target women in science and technology steering committee twist which is an initiative creating stem exploration opportunities for high school to college students. Tara thank you for joining us today. Thank you mark. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here now. Tara tell us a little bit about what you do so My day job at target is as lead product owner in building inventory management technology so as a product owner. I'm responsible for creating the vision setting the strategy and then measuring outcomes are deliverable results And we're doing all this with targets inventory management technology building all of that in house and what this technology is the system that plans what inventory needs to be what stores in what quantity at what time. So it's it's a big technology a big system What i do Not in my day job or as volunteer work is probably a bulgar majority of what i spend my time on In these are things like mentoring. Mentoring tons of people probably thirty plus people currently You know all ages from sixth grade on up through adulthood and working Sorry but the akron no is can probably hear my dogs shuttling around But yeah so. I'm doing a lot of different mentorship injury. People in product mentoring people in technology in different things across the board And what really excited to talk about. Today is all of the different things that i'm doing with target women in science and technology like you mentioned So this is different. Creating opportunities for people to learn about technology get involved in technology In kind of feed their passion and curiosity so just creating opportunities at target for that And then i'm also gotten in the last year since you saw me in amsterdam. I've gotten really involved. In minnesota technology association midtech for short In this association is Amplifying the minnesota technology ecosystem Through lots of different events networking in touch points. And they're really bringing. All of the technology company is technology or businesses of minnesota together to really build an inclusive and diverse tech workforce for minnesota and the future Really really exciting stuff happening there as well while minnesota You i mean where did you find time for. Follow this this. We laugh at later. We were very excited to talk to you. We've been waiting to get you on because of you know you spend a lot of time in development and specifically inclusivity in tech and said it's a passion of yours on. I want to a little bit more about about that. You know getting drawn into inclusivity and on lawyer passionate about this yeah. It's an awesome question. Thank you mark Yeah i mean. I pretty much i. I think the best way to describe it. As i'm just gonna walk through a scenario and then we can talk about that a little bit more so i think there's a ton of reasons why i care about it. Why passionate but if you think about end this young woman. This young girl was me so think about a young girl who is in high school. Her school doesn't have any computer. Science courses no real even stem education curriculum. So she goes on. She hears also at the same time in the media. All of these things about hooded white man eating pizza late at night codeine program You know the the different stereotypes that our society has put out there. And i think a lot of those are starting to change but at the lowest level that still happening in that still what young girls are seen now. For some reason this young girl gets to college. She decides that yes. I still am going to check out this computer science major and i'm going to go for it by this point in time. There's already such a few number of women that are already going into computer science in college. It's like the Starting to get narrowing narrower and so. This young girl goes into college and she's one of three women in a hundred students in computer science program. Let's just say So what happens is when you're one of only a few you don't see others that look like you. You start to feel the pressure in the drain of you know this impostor syndrome where i think everyone else knows what's going on and so women are leaving. They're starting to trickle off. Yup and i felt that when i was going through it. And so getting into the workforce. I know that that's one of the big challenges is not seen others. That look like you along the way and you eventually just lose your steam And so i want to. I want to help. I want to help other women. People that are in minorities. I want to create spaces that make them feel like they should be there as it is true that you don't see the person who can relate to invite group and therefore you tamp to leave the group them which is what we're seeing with women as you said as you go you might get into college but you're looking around i don't even small percentage are whom you can relate to who you relate to on the nego all. This isn't for me. So i think the challenge is is not even. Can you get a role in a in an organization. It's tiny get about point where you've learnt the skills to go chase a role intact and you're right if funnel title at the college section and then even more schools actors well. You're in a school without certain technologies. I think maybe that goes back on. Governance governments ensure that we have a proper technologies. But if you don't have that in school you're hardly gonna get you know inclusivity happening as you're going to college. A seattle was more male-dominated programming and they will get drawn into as you said that stereotype as well. I think we do a bit more clue so there to get back. I will rounded view. You know what. The challenges are are difficult their. You delivered the devops day presentation today. Which toxic i'm drawn a question you ask you know where all the girls going You gave some great facts. Girls get interested in standby age of eleven. So we do a great job. I think in getting them impressing even last week my own daughter in that age group we do some stand cody It was good. But it's the next thing you know. They lose interest by fifty to explore latin coppola. Here's my daughter but only eighteen percent of computers on its last degrees around by women. These are i. Donald star figures that you present. It isn't a simple what you said or are there other factors that are leading to that. Yeah well first of all. I think there's a lot of different factors that are leading to that. I think a lot of it is stereotypes in in those holding girls back but another thing in the most general thing is i think it's a pipeline problem So in minnesota just this year in twenty twenty. Some statistics came out and apparently minnesota is the last of all fifty states in the united states in percent of schools teaching computer science in the classroom So minnesota has nineteen percent of all schools teaching some sort of computer science or related. Which is not enough so i think it's a problem of exposure where students they're not hearing about it in school. They're not seen it in their community and this is at specific to people in rural areas. They don't have target corporation in their backyard whereas the students in big metropolitan areas have you know the companies in the tech companies coming in offering these types of opportunities but exposure i think is a big gap and then it's like the exposure the opportunities in the mentorship That just get students thinking about stamp technology. Computer science just seen. That might be enough even if they don't fully have like stem education in their schools so i think widespread there's just not enough exposure to students at a young age for them to know that you know what to even study to get into these careers So there's just a lot a lot of things around exposure that we could be doing should be doing typical year. I'm acid muzorewa has great yourself. They're trying to get at least get you out of that. Automated love the statistics. Turbo lot of were as it's an interesting area. Because i think there's a massive shift in the way we worked today like ram the knowledge economy. This part of the world ams it's changed from the types of roles you would've done plant thirty forty fifty years ago Especially as you said. Minnesota being a bit more remote from those big tech behemoths. Maybe we'll may have shown the sector is. It's not specific on location. That we can work in these roles intact remotely can probably work a bit better intact. Become a used to it. We know how it works when it doesn't work we don't have to face where we know what to do. You know that it's not. It's not as much barrier. I think as it was in the past but that's probably a big learning from colin and i don't know do you think in the years to come now that will accelerate a bit more inclusion in in. It the you know. Thought you have to be in these tech boba to get those tech jobs Promoted that they will look at these. These arabian say. Hey we can get good. Technical students from these areas on the trying gravitate the to this type of work. Do you think that's so that will come out of the pre covid era. Yeah hard to say. I mean there are definitely. There's there's pros and cons of it. I think on the con side. You know being isolation in you know. I think part of inclusivity or the main part of inclusivity is people having the sense of belonging feeling a strong sense of belonging that really making them feel part of the team part of the mission and contributing members of team now in when you're in isolation in your virtual. You're not able to chat after the meeting. Talked to the team. Like how did i do. When i was presenting. What did you think of this. You know those little sideway hallway sideway conversations that you normally get to kind of pull you and make you feel more of a sense of belonging with kovic you click end on zoom in. That's that the the call is over the is done. So you don't really know necessarily how you're doing with other people and i think i know personally that's driven for me a lot of insecurity or lack of competence just you. You just don't know so on the pro side though. There is so much more that you can do. You can reach so many more people when you're in a virtual setting I know for twist this last year. One of the events we didn't twenty twenty was prepared to launch virtual series. And basically what we did. Were four two hour sessions where we brought in yours from all across the united states from like thirty seven different companies. We had over forty five speakers Diverse in their jobs intact were diverse by gender race. Everything and so not only were the speakers able to call in present their content but then we had over ten thousand students across all of the united states. There is even some outside the united states attending so we were able to connect you know professionals that are out there. Working to students from around the world really To learn about what's out there intact skills do you need to have in the work workforce What are into these types of jobs and it was all targeted high school and college students. Those are the types of opportunities that we weren't dreaming of before cove it but then when kobe hit we were like how are we going to give exposure bring opportunities to students When we were like well we might as well do virtual virtual webinar. and we just. We didn't think about how well that would be able to scale when we were planning it and then as we did our first session that are second in the numbers were growing and growing and it was just really exciting. So i see so. Many positives like that in the realm of getting people exposure to the opportunities. And there's virtually you can learn how to code now with boot canson and all of that and you can either buy for and get a job and you don't have to move wherever you're at so I think there's are more pros and cons and so yeah. I definitely think the way that we've gotten more flexible. And the way we're adapting to work virtually I think that will open a lot of doors for a lot of different people rate. It will also deposits from tastic. I think you said. I'm one of the challenges being that when the will zoom call finishes the next tomb stock. So he won't even get a break in between them but like you. Don't get the chance just wondering i wrote at that here. You know. Companies are always driving to use latest technologies to improve productivity of the impacts costs mason. Things like that but should also be thinking about is not just to take on its own. It's productivity close. Communication flows community. What you're saying that we need to continue to develop that. It's not just always the bottom line better. Productivity lower costs this stuff. So i wanna ram maybe want to think about how many organizations think in those terms of trying to increase the communication but also the community all these groups of like minded trout the organizations because that is really what it is in an organization work. Our communities of different people come together to achieve similar results as lord Based on thank but somehow we forgotten about how can we as individuals and then maybe organizations you know ensure better inclusivity basically adrian college in the workplace quick things that we could do either. Individually were empowered leadership or two organizations. That or other that you've tried will. Yeah while individually. I think it's really important to take a hard look at yourself in how other people receive. You are kind of the types of relationships that you foster as a person And i know in twenty twenty with kobe being locked down i did a ton of reflecting on myself and how i am to others I just read a lot and tried to educate myself a lot more Of course there was a lot of things that happened in twenty twenty. Like right in minneapolis in my backyard. George floyd being murdered and ensure. I'm sure you've heard of this and and that you know. Yeah and so individually. It's like we have to look at. How are we contributing to society. Our we building communities. How are we pulling people in. And i think most important of all is like how are we creating opportunities for other people It's something i think about all the time like i can. I can and sometimes this. Every i think everyone has moments of like selfishness where you get kind of zeroed in on what you were doing. What you care most about Always always always try to tell other people and tell myself to think about other people figure out what they care about figure out what's important to them and above all else make other people feel important so i trying to live. You know rule of thumb my life by that. It actually is something that i recommend this book. It's been recommended to me How to win friends and influence people by dale carnegie's. It's not new. It's been around. But i mean the concepts and the principles napa of those are the things that i try to live by and i think when you do that you will be inclusive of other people you will bring other people and create opportunities for them So i try to live live true to that now for companies organizations. You know i'm not. I'm not leading company. I don't know there are so many. I can only imagine the number of trade offs in risks with every single conversation And but you know one of the things that i think is really positive is that i've seen companies. I've seen a shift in especially this last year in companies like you were saying like trying to build communities trying to focus on inclusivity and i mean the the reality of it is is that with with gen z. I think this is you know. There's plenty of blog posts at just reading this morning before this Talking about how gen z expects workplaces to be diverse. Expects them to be inclusive. And they're not gonna look at working for ones. That aren't so i think it is a business priority for companies to start. Start driving these initiatives. And i think they'll find their existing employees. Want to help you know in a lot of what's needed is is really mentorship sponsorship and those types of things true. I'm great boca's imagine. That is a really good book. I said it's not a new book but a lot of common sense isn't you anyway but that's a great. You know when. France and influence some things. You mentioned there around me. Just triggers tireless leadership stuff not less theory being leadership in the relationship at the top level but certainly leadership as management. I think i think that's a big shift where we are in whatever your revolution visits for point over whatever it is you know. We've gone from the production floor manufacturing services now high-tech i think it's it's more management needs to evolve into leadership to lead people create communities to satisfy the jansy blows aware. We're going with this. As well fitting is is interesting to say it's almost like a massive experimental social experiment for the next twenty thirty years. But i do think we do have to get a right for far too long. It's been incorrect. Tara your who do so some of these things you do thing called twists the target. Some curious awards. Lean him circle learning new technologies. Tell us a little bit. About these initiatives up people might be able to focus in on and take a little bit from maybe. Yeah definitely so the first one you mentioned was twist awards so epic sands for engaged in earth engaged passionate innovative in curious And really. It's it's an awards ceremony that we created with twist back in two thousand seventeen and It's the award. Ceremony recognizes twenty five. Young women in the twin cities or surrounding metro. So this is an award. We created specifically for minnesota students But anyways so this this program every year. We didn't do it last year because we were in the award ceremony is really about like celebrating and recognizing the achievements of these twenty five young women And what they're doing you know the young women that we've awarded so we've awarded seventy five now in the past started in two thousand seventeen. We did it in two thousand eighteen again in twenty nineteen and i know we'll be back as soon as we're back in person But it's about celebrating the achievements in the work. That young women are doing in the community. You know there are high school girls. That are the captains of their robotics team and then they're also like creating cancer elementary girls to learn how to code and they're volunteering and they're going to summer camps to learn how to code and they're just really doing a lot to get into computer science And they're trying to do a lot to bring other people with them and so by celebrating them in warning them. You make them feel special for what they've already done But it's what comes after it so with epoch. Awards anyone all of the girls. Who have one epic awards in the past. They get matched up to a target mentor And so then there are people they have a one to one mentor relationship with someone on. They're able to ask for help. And you know the mentorship can go for as long as they keep it going with their target mentor And so it's just a way to help them in usher them into you know like what are you thinking for going to school. And how can i help you get into that college in you know. It's all the things that you do mentor someone. But it's it's a way for us to keep that keep that pipeline going And now we've had from twenty seventeen with epoch. We've had one of the award winners actually started. She was an intern at target last summer. And then she just started in january of this last year as a target team member. So we're definitely seen signs that people that we've awarded with this award are not only going into computer science. But they're actually coming out the other end and applying to incoming coming to work for target So that's really exciting antarctic even just that one example girl won't awards From interns down employees at the to me. That's always a better way of trying to slow or staff that will probably stay with like company targeted for a long time that they're law as well to the company because the company has helped them understand and help bring them in hell. Educate the mentor them. I think we used to do this. And the all the older days and somewhere we've got lost along the way you know. So i think that's really good. Jenner thing it made me think about was what you're building now of confidence in a person to go in not only to go into this career to make it a career and sometimes i think you mentioned earlier. That big barrier to inclusion is confidence. And you mentioned that about her syndrome. We know from the studies. It is the fact that women tend to suffer imposter syndrome more than men. I think you've even mentioned before if there's a job down there one hundred percent of the man interesting will go for best sixty percent of women may and then the numbers may fall offers. He goes through the process. Because of this impostor syndrome thing so a program like what you're doing probably helps with a use the impostor syndrome as being a really big barrier from the words. That you've done. Yeah so for myself. Personally it's always imposter syndrome is always something that's kind of there. It's always in the back of my mind. There's always like a little voice telling me you're not good enough but then there's like overbearing where i've coached myself through this. And i've had. I've had so many great mentors coaching the on this as well and i've had Even people that i've mentored that have upwardly. Mentored me back in. You know bulk just ignoring honestly. It's just about like turning off in ignoring Things that are saying that you're not good enough for that. You're not qualified enough. Or you know like if i look at something that i wont going after. I don't eat the politicians. I know that statistics. So i just don't even bat lash. I'm like oh. I have forty percent of the qualifications and i would say that i could learn the you know like i i. I have trained myself in that regard. But i think for others. It is still a really big barrier. And you don't know you know a lot of people especially those coming up now when you're younger you don't hear about imposter syndrome. You're not you don't really know what all these things are. But if you don't see people that look like you trying to pull you up and bring you into this Into the technology world than you're you're not gonna feel super confident that you can do it. So i think with these programs in my advice to other companies to like you have to have mentors. You want to be exposing students to people that look like them and to people that don't and showing just like a rich diversity of people that are holding these tech positions in these tech jobs I think that's the most important thing then. Mentorship is another way to really beat out the impostor syndrome. Having someone you know. That's kind of been down that path before. Just say you look like you're gonna feel these feelings your entire life you you have to do your best to subside. Ignore them and as a young girl or as a woman or whatever like you should just like. I've seen this. I see this in my Listen i see this in my dad. I see this in a lot of in. It's not omen. I'm not trying to make a huge generalization here but In general like the boy next to you is not going to skip that opportunity so if you decide internally that you're not good enough someone else is going to get that opportunity not you so you might as well just go for it in the worst that can happen is you get told no or you you fall down or you screw up. And that's you'll get back up on your feet. I mean that's not and so it's a lot of it takes coaching. No one's gonna inherently know these things and so just like it takes coaching sports. It takes coaching technology to Yeah it is interesting as you said sold. The coaching market is done crazy. The last couple of years the coach everywhere so important to find the right coach that will target is doing what you're doing. Sounds like it's absolutely on the money. It's a coaching for the coaching. It's inclusively the half down to coaching To think is really resilience. I think is so important as well. We in life forget knocked box. I always trying to when the baby is small baby will fall over at might hurt. It's up a baby will get back. Try and do it again. And again and again overtime when we learn to you know that no kind of his negative against whatever. But if you haven't tried you'll never get a yes or no so. I think we do need to health. You know inclusivity say nothing. Try is never failure. If you learn something from its of. You didn't get the job. Why not and try figure out. Next time as you said only forty percent scale. I can learn to forty percent of whatever it is while lt looking for a better communication well. Hey here's how. I excelled about market or whatever that is you know can behind as you said even when you get trudeau door into the role into the job. You're looking around for your opposite. Your community there on your. You're still not seeing. Which can be enough are. Coaching is go ahead. No go ahead. i'll add. It's going to add one thing to what you said another thing that was recommended to me in this something on youtube. But it's eight principles of success by radio and it's like this shore video series And when you encounter these situations of your uncomfortable or you have to their some roadblock in your way The thing that ray dollar. Ot his teaching is kind of like yala's these things like. Oh it's just another one of those so you have like a set of heuristic. Are things that you do through these scenarios to help you get through them or get over them or you know when you just look at these scenarios in. That happens to me every single day and i'm like okay. That meeting was just another one of those and i. I put it in that box. And i looked to like. Here's how i handle those situations and that's something that i teach my tease a lot to look into that and do a blog on the very good Suggesting that you've put out there very good reference point. I'm long time ago the teach this Whenever i can is you know every morning you go you tell yourself. I'm the best. I can be today. You're not comparing yourself time. Anybody else or comparing yourself or anything like that. Today i can do the best. I can achieve someday to achieve more sundays. You don't blown a given that you are the but you are unique. We're all unique out. I think if you continue tender south side you get more. Resilience is still get knocked. Baxter still always knows These challenges but sometimes that helps the feedback from people that have tried that over a period of time we can only ever be or thing is never a fish ability to climb a tree. I think that's important is conversations well just because you're different gender just because you will doesn't mean that you're you know you can't do these things. I think. probably do them a lot. Better to be honest. I we should prove that in the workplace they get more inclusivity and then there was recent stats from that have seen. We'll put these on our blog. Seventy eight percent of students cannot name a famous woman. Working in technology sixteen percent the women had a career in texas justice as opposed to man. You know five percent leadership in technology is only women. I'm watching trae percent. The women say career technology is their first tries their stark star. You know what what what you say to women. I guess of any age when they figures like this because that's enough feels free to just not thinking about not other. Yeah i mean the thing. I'd say to women of any age is don't be discouraged Look at those numbers All you can really take from. That is like there is an opportunity like there. Is something wrong. Happening there right. That's that's what i see when i hear numbers like that. I have a lot more to say to the ninety. Five percent of men running these companies around like we need allies. We need sponsorship. We need mentors like we need more people like amplifying this voice In order to change those things so yeah those are those metrics are often. I think like that's why it takes a collective technology industry to attack problem like there are so many different angles of the problem that that need to be addressed. Yeah i i think a great thing you said that the numbers are stark but it presents opportunity. Now it will take time and it will take awhile. I think with the likes of companies. Like what you're doing what target are doing sponsoring the high level. And then making sure does happen is very good. More of organizations corporations are more tires at there. I think dr inclusivity. I think it'd be a better rounded world and save the in society in the tech sector. We do need to turn this around. You just mentioned. Will we get there. are we. Let it get there anytime soon. Optimistic as town. Well you know. Like i said before. Gen z is coming And i you know. I don't think we're going to get there in you. Know i think it'll take years to get there But i think gen z is going to demand a more diverse inclusive workforce i think gen z is going to be pushing leaders to create that world. I know one of my men tease katie. She she the best And she would be a far better interview. candidate than me even She's doing so much in the community. But you know she is what i think of is the epitome of what gen z is going to bring into the workforce like she is just pushing pushing pushing asking great questions trying to really truly live and build a diverse and inclusive ecosystem and. She's just kicked off her career But i mean she's pushing. Vp's sdp's at the company asking just bluntly like a aren't we doing this. Can we do this. Can we create this opportunity. Can you share this with your network. You know like. She has zero years in asking these questions and she thinks that it would be outright wrong if the company didn't respond And so. I think it's i think it's that type of behavior. I think it's that type of leadership. That's coming down the pipe and i think that I think that things will change now in the immediate it. It just takes time. It takes time for every company to address. That change needs to happen I know in the united states. I've been seen a ton of that from organizations especially in the last year In just recognizing like our our diversity. Numbers look terrible and there's companies are starting to publish them whereas in years past they had never put them out on the internet. And if you start to like yeah. So i think over in europe is welders w have circle vision those numbers now now. That doesn't quite solve the problem but it does expose a bit more. Which which i think is is is interesting m indeed. So we'll we get there hopefully great opportunity for us to get there. I think see where things go. So any final words on how women intact him succeed with a golden. I'm bishen semi final words of open encouragement. I mean just. Don't don't buy into the this isn't for me or there's not enough people that look like me Go into it thinking about. That is a bigger opportunity for yourself to really really transform technology with that mindset. You can bring. That's rare in unique or rail rare valuable skill that you can bring in technology on so think about it as something that you can bring in a negative. The other thing is you need to subscribe to yet to that. Same belief of you have rare invaluable skills to offer. You have rare. You have something rare that other people you are unique and other people are not you And that's what's needed in the workforce so subscribe to that mindset and not the other that says it's not for you some tastic so i think you're right in saying that you know we put so many people in a room that can code. They'll probably all code. But then what's your uniqueness in that room and maybe all said to get bit more vividly is maybe there's better communication or stronger odor faucet site. You bring that be able to a a dentist with them and then be highlight them during the process to make you stand out which i think will be. It will be interesting to helped us more written about this more done about this and we see more. Change 'em about this in the future. I think the world will be better for. I think workplace certainly be better for. I think we need to change those numbers to start. You know but. I said we'll leave it with is huge opportunity there over the coming year to change. That's the virus. Thank you so much for joining us today on. Ccc talks thank you so much for having me. Thank you for joining this episode of ccc top. We hope you enjoyed this episode and walk away with a ton of actionable insights if this is your first time joining us. This is us extending a personal invitation to you to join other and business professionals. So please subscribe on itunes youtube or google play if you are struggling in any capacity or digital transformation journey contact be more than happy to guide you and find you to write certification courses to help you manage the challenges. Modern businesses are facing. This was ccc talks until next time.

minnesota Tara marco laughlin marco loughlin cloud credential council target women in science and te united states muzorewa George floyd kobe tyra ccc adrian college amsterdam cody Donald dale carnegie
Ep. 54 Micro-Air Easy Touch RV Thermostat

Beyond the Wheel

35:51 min | 7 months ago

Ep. 54 Micro-Air Easy Touch RV Thermostat

"This episode is brought to you by battle born batteries, the best name and the RV marine industry. These lithium batteries are designed and assembled in the USA backed by a ten year warranty the best solution for your battery anxiety. So go check them out at battle born batteries dot com whether you're adventure is on the road on the water or off the grid battle born batteries keep you out there longer. You're listening to beyond the wheel a podcast about the people maybe as Dr the RB. Hi everyone in this episode, we're joined again by Roger, from micro air. Micro air has a new product, the easy touch RV thermostat. This is a game changing product for our veers especially, those with pets Rogers the guy who knows this product better than anyone else. So enjoy this informative conversation I Roger Welcome back to the show. We have had roger on the air here before Rogers from micro air, and if you don't know Mike is the manufacturer of the easy start three, six, four, electric, soft starter for rb rooftop. You can hear this earlier discussion that we had with Roger Back in episode eleven all the way back in February of two, thousand and nineteen. It's hard to believe that this much time has passed, but it is an Roger is back to talk about micro airs easy touch thermostat. So High Roger and thanks for coming back on show. Hi, guys. Great to be here. Again, I've been with my career now for a about twenty years I guess it's probably eighteen last time I talked to your nineteen. But I'm part of the Engineering and design team here at micro air can you tell us just start off by what is the easy touch RV thermostat and how does it work? Okay well, there's actually three different thermostats currently in production The the concept was basically to try to make it something that was very simple to replace that someone could use to put in place of their existing thermostats. It was also to add some additional functionality that the original thermostats didn't come with kind of like what you find in your home market. We know when you're looking at a nest thermostat or some of some of the the Honeywell's or or something an end to develop something that kind of provided some of that functionality in the in the RV market as well. 'cause I, think you know you start getting used to things that that you're. That you think of at home and you really want to take some of that with you some of that technology, some of that simplicity with you. So the three thermostats replaced three different types of controller. One of the problems you have with me with the RV market is the thermostats themselves. In many cases use proprietary communication schemes with their with the controllers, and what we did was we chose to pretty regular thermostats towards the start with we started with the dometic. CCC Too, which is one of. Their latest offerings it has twelve button thermostat we worked at enhancing that. The second one we did was the single-zone dramatic, which is also a current production model, and then we figured well, we don't want to leave Coleman users out. So we started with Coleman's line of thermostats as well. Then those are mostly DC controlled. So they're not reliant on control board. So we have a little more freedom in in developing that particular product. So those are the three that were currently replacing in that are in current production. I'm glad you said that you didn't want to leave that Coleman's out because that's what I have and after I went to your website once we found out that you're coming on and I went to your website and I looked this easiest easy touch as like Oh. Yeah. This is what I've been looking for for a long time. Sean knows this each of the companies has a proprietary. Controller that goes with it. But are you saying that the easy touch thermostat if you get the right one that works with your whatever brand of Ac you have there's is it plug and play or is there some additional wiring that you have to do? That that's great expansion of what we just talked about. Basically what you're GonNa do is let's use it looks us one of the steps example say a CCC to which is a pretty popular dometic model. Basically, you're there's a plug of on the back of it that you're just GonNa unplug that plug and you'll plug it into the new thermostat and. At that point it's GonNa work it just as plug and play. So you so after mounted to the wall, so there's still that consideration, but basically, it's just GonNa plug in the single-zone model, which is our fifty one model. That one is a is basically three wires. There's a there's basically pushing connectors that you'll take the three wires out of the original. And you'll just plug them into the back of the second thermostat the new thermostat. The third model is Coleman that's a little bit more complicated because there's depending on the model you could have eight or ten wires there but basically, we laid out the wires and exactly the same. As the original wiring. So you'll pull them. We'll pull them off of your Coleman Thermostat and just plugged them into the new easy touch thermostat. In fact we also offer an option. There are several of the Coleman models had come with a connector that's in the wall, just a short distance from the thermostat. If you happen to have one of those models we offer, we offer version that comes with that connector. So you'll you'll have to do is unplug the connector and plug in and plug the new thermostat in without having to to fool with any of the wires and making sure you preserve the order of them when you install them. So when you say that you pull the wire. So I have the Coleman, I would remove my thermostat from the wall. The wires would them be exposed on the back on pulling one wire off at a time taken it out, plugging it into the easy touch and my point of wire and may be putting a clip on it that then plugs into or is it a screw type? It's actually neither it's actually a push type. You literally pushed the wire into the whole and there's a there's a pin on it for releasing it. So if you needed to take a wire out, for example, you could push the pain and pull the wire out with your finger. Even easier than okay. That's great. So let's talk about some of the features of the easy touch thermostat. Why would somebody WANNA. Make the upgrade or change out a thermostat in their RV for the easy touch. Well there's a there's quite a few a few reasons of that first of. People are unhappy with their with the existing thermostats and and that, and that seems to come from anywhere from the DOMETIC CCC to their single zone. I think heard less complaints about the single zone mainly because it just has an up and the down button on it, and it's very simple operation but even those just don't offer some of the flexibility. One of the biggest things is the is the ability to control it while you're away from the RV and easy touch does two different methods of doing that you can control it using Bluetooth, which probably seen some of the new Bluetooth thermostats on the market for for a few different models. and that was you do controlling just locally. 'cause they work anywhere from thirty two you know hundred and fifty or two hundred feet. They really don't work very far. But the ideas when you're in your motor home and let's say you're you're not near any kind of Wi fi or even sell connection you know and I don't WanNa, get up and and change the thermostat. What do I do? Well, then you use you use your Bluetooth link because you're actually right there. But then of course, there's other people who say, well, you know I go to RV parks and they almost all have Wifi were I may even have a Wifi Modem router on my my RV to control other things. Well, you can control it. You can connect into that hot spot and be able to control your your thermostat while you're away from the RV as well, and that was an important consideration to, and that's another popular reason why you would want to upgrade it from there. I can already picture this I in my RV. Now, I have E on my a C And, a running lithium batteries and solar. So I'm driving down the road I have this easy touch rb Thermostat in when I'm forty minutes outside of my destination in a todd outside I can just get on the. Bluetooth. Adjusts the Thermostat so the AC turns on. and run it to cool off the RV before I get into my spot and I don't have to stop and go inside the RV and turn on the AC, and then get back on the road for that last forty, five minutes we can do it right from the vehicle. Yes. A very valid point. I think there's probably tons of things you can imagine and I. Like. The way you think 'cause I have talked to a number of people who they use the front air conditioner. Awesome while they're driving and they leave the beret air conditioner off while they're while they're driving and you're right. You get a certain distance away from where you're going and you might want to say you know what I'm just GonNa get on my cell phone or My wife gets on her cell phone turns on the air conditioner doesn't have to leave the copilot's seat, and of course now you're now you've got the air conditioner on in the back right before you get there and instead of opening the curtain and every and the heat's coming back at you from the back of the RV, you know the whole thing's that at temperatures. So Yeah No. Absolutely I mean as far as far as ideas go you know you can probably come up with a limitless number of ideas to be able to do that. I, mean I hear people talk about you know how they wanNA monitor temperatures so that they can make sure their pets are comfortable. You know there's there's lots of reasons you know I don't I don't. Always go to the RV. You know and I want to know that it's it's a temperature because it's a hot day when I get there, I want to set it for for a certain temperature and then have it have it ready to go when I get there and there's those reasons as well. Yeah and and for showing, it's even a little more difficult because he. has his fifth real jewelry can't get out of the truck and well, she could I. Guess It'd be a stunt spectacular but you hop off the truck and into the fifth wheel to turn that a C. on I didn't even think about that Sean but yeah, that's a great idea. I was thinking more what Roger said for Pets my wife and I we travel with our. Dog fell and when we're away, she is one of our biggest concerns of what is going on back in your be as far as as she comfortable. Is it too hot An RV is very similar to any other vehicle even though it's homelike inside when it's warm outside, it gets very hot inside and being able to monitor to not only just monitor temperature but. Who adjusted while we're away would take so much stress I. mean an unbelievable amount of stress off of us, and that was the thing that stood out to me when I was when I was on your website and looking at over as like this is what we've been looking for for bell because we don't have an auto jen start, we don't have anything that can monitor. Our temperature in the RV that was already designed into our this. This is this is gonNA. Be Huge for us. Well, I did want I mentioned there are also a couple of extra features to the easy start as well they're scheduling allows you to set a schedule. So lot of people actually live in their RV so they might want to set. A schedule so that it overnight, you changes the temperature down even cooler warmer depending on what you want or maybe when you're away from way for the day, you don't want it quite as warm it offers in a way mode. So if you park your RV and leave it, we can you can set temperature spread to allow it to go NOCCO. Below a certain point or above another certain point and it also offers automatic modes. Some of the thermostats we looked at didn't have the ability to go between cooling modes and heating modes. You know they were basically just one way or the other. So you park out in a desert for example, during the day scorching hot night, it starts getting freezing. Cold You WANNA be able to set an automatic automatically go between the heating mode and a cooling mode and those features are not in all thermostats that we've replaced. So there's there's some are some additional features that are that are in it that are not found in the in the normal service, and that's kind of what we tried to do is Had some features to the the product. So you're saying even in my Coleman I, I do not had that auto ability like I'm either I'm either switched on cool or I'm switched on heat but I physically have to switch it back and forth you're saying there's a good chance that by replacing it, I would be able to switch it to a auto that it'll automatically switch between whether it needs to heat or. Dac Yes absolutely. It has that it has at function and feature built into it, and then it's the the WIFI portion is APP based. The APP is available for any smartphone whether it be a apple based or other operating system. There's basically two major operating systems out there phones, but you're going to have an android or you're going to have an apple and I pretty much covers everybody windows phones are are pretty much. Pretty much outdated at this point. So you know you're looking at those two and those two are the ones that the APPs target either an apple based or an android based, and yes the the APPS available for for both of those products because at based, there's going to be several I'm sure you guys are GonNa do iterative upgrades as you. As you develop the product further or the APP just has to change for some reason, will will that be able to be downloaded like at no cost or how how will that work? Yeah absolutely. The the APPS are available currently no cost and that and I don't see that really changing I mean that's kind of industry standard anymore for APPS you get for external devices so. Yeah. They're they're available with with no cost, and certainly the updates can be pushed to the stores and that's that's how most of the developers do it. They basically send the APP to the store apple or Google approved the APP to be released and then that gets released out to the store and yeah we we actually have several enhancements to the product we're already. Looking at even even with the limited distribution that we've had so far one of which is my customers looking for light and dark mode where you'd where it's not so bright because 'cause right now I've got things on a white background. So it's a little bright at nighttime. So I'm going to work on dark mode background so that it, it's not not so. light in the evening time when you're when you're looking at it tonight, there's also several other things we're looking at to do one of, which is push notifications my started working on that the other day, and basically what that does is though that's going to allow you to set a temperature in your RV and when it exceeds the temperature or it might be. A low temperature limit. It'll send you a notification on your phone and say, Hey, you're RV temperature is outside of a range and when that happens of course, you'll you may WanNa, take some kind of action for it. We're also looking at automating the timezone settings currently there set their set manually, but we're looking at doing that from your phone so when you're near by You connect to it. It just automatically updates time zone. Then when you're going from one area to the next area, the the time zone would be set. Final thing we're looking at adding is user controlled updates. So let's say you like it. The way it is you WanNa make an enhancement changes will you can leave it the way it is or you might say I might. Say Hey I've got an update available for your Thermostat, and at that point, we can do a an over the air update as long as you're connected to the Wifi and let's see other thing one of the reasons to do it user controlled update it's because you may not always be connected to a Wi fi but when you are you might WanNa you might say. Hey I want updates because I want that new push notification feature. So we're going to allow the customers to actually do the updating. So these are some of the enhancements that we're looking at doing and we actually designed it so that when you were connected to Wifi that the thermostat was updateable right through the Internet, and of course, the phones are always updateable through the APP stores. Some nice features that you're already working on right off the bat. I'll tell you what the adjustable backlit is a big plus I liked that already because I know at night my wife is a very light sleeper all the lights after be out I mean even like a little usb light that's plugged into our cigarette lighter has to come out of our dash to make sure that she can sleep. Okay. So that's a huge thing and the push notification I. Go back to worrying about belt while we're gone, and so instead originally I was thinking that we would just keep an eye on every once in a while, but if it's able to tell us hey It's now at this temperature in your RV that that's awesome. I love it on the website. There's an image of the easy touch and it's showing outside temperature. So will that Is that just the picture for now does it really do that? If it does do that? Is there a second monitor that needs to be placed somewhere outside the are before the pick it up or is it just picking up like local weather cut telling me the outside temperature? Okay. The outside temperature that you see there is basically based on the on the board that it's connected to. So for example, with with a dometic CCC to or the single-zone, they have their own outs outside air sensor and those things are really notoriously not very accurate. We provided the information because it was provided by the board, but it's really not something that I I've ever really seen very useful I. Mean You I, guess you could mount a sensor under the under the the RV I've heard some people mount him in the front, but then it still depends on what direction the sun is facing and honestly with all the with the fact that most. Phones have temperature and weather information. Anyway, it really didn't seem very like a great idea just to add something that you know is kind of redundant. So No, we didn't go any further with adding outside sensor for that reason it's just whatever's available on the system that you currently have. So with the Coleman, they don't have any outside air sensors on them. So there won't be that feature available for Coleman there may be for the Z., which is a new it's it's actually one of the products I have in development right now for was for the the culture systems and Those are the zone control if you're not familiar with them they. Do. Offer the outside sensors So that will be available with that product. But only through the manufacturers. Sensor. Okay, well, that makes sense to me. What about I also saw on the the picture it displayed the humidity inside you are be would that be something that the easy touch will be able to provide? Currently. The the none of the thermostats provide that information. We we actually thought about that as a product enhancement for the future. So there are some thought about going back and and developing a adding a humidity sensor to the thermostat itself. There's some thought on that, but the haven't progressed on doing that just yet. Okay I was just curious. Right. At the moment we keep a a separate neater inside you are vida measure humidity humidity is like a big. What would you call it? Sean I duNNo it's an enemy of an RV YOU WANNA keep your RV humidity down low for materials. You don't want the moisture in the RV. So I was just curious of provided right they're. Not Current not currently at doesn't put certainly I'm going to consider that in some new designs as we progress with the product. Another question is availability. Right now are are these products available? Are you guys still in sort of test in development stages? Well, where we are in a a bit of an early release stage at this point, we're not we're not delivering these through dealers just yet We're basically going one on one directly with the customers. There's a note on the website that you can only purchase one, and that's mainly mainly because the the product is kind of new. So we're making sure that that all the bugs and things are ironed out and we've we've done a number of fixtures over the last few weeks of. Most of in fact, the last two weeks I really haven't done anything. We just been monitoring the existing users that have used a system, of course, devout getting a little feedback and a lot of what I'm talking about to you today today is really based on the feedback of from from people that I've talked to on either enhancements that they WanNa, see where changes that they'd like to see done. You know. So it's not so much anymore more of a debugged process, but but it's more in the in the now. Now let's look what features we can put in there and what We can really do to to enhance the product. It's Kinda the stage we're at at this point, is there any remote diagnostic capability then if you if it's connected to a Wi fi and somebody's having an issue? Is it possible for you to take a look at that? Data from that device over Wifi to see if you can figure out what the problem might be, there is some I mean we can take a look at the device. We can take a look at the thermostat and and of course, we can talk with the thermostat from micro air but we don't it's it doesn't really diagnose the air conditioner. There's not a lot of information that's provided from the controllers that really helped me identify problems like certainly if you had a freon leak, for example or the you know lower fridge and there's no pressure sensor that that tells me with that that the pressure. Is Low in the in the refrigerator and those are the sort of things you would really need to do like a full diagnostic of system I mean so the things you could actually get backer Kinda simple. You know communication information you know do you know are they able to what's the set point things like that? So as far as things going wrong with the Thermostat, I could get that information back. But if something was wrong with the air conditioner I, really don't have a lot of information on that I was more referring to the thermostat itself if you had some issue that you can figure out what? The actual stat. Actually, we've done quite a bit of that remote remote diagnostics in fact, remote updating as well, and yeah I would say probably all any issue that goes wrong with the thermostat short of a mechanical issue could could most likely be resolved without sending the unit back to us for any kind of prepare I think just about all this stuff we've repaired so far that has not been mechanical we we've done it over the Internet for any updates we have we were like I said think we've gone through most of the issues there's one or two small bugs that are left that we're working. On and I think within the next week or so that those will be all in updates for the for the thermostats that are that were currently shipping. So by the time, this airs those bugs will be worked out too because this were recording this one a little early I'm curious. Roger could you share with us about how I always like to know a little bit about behind the scenes about how long has this project been going on from the time that you guys started thinking about it to the time that you're now selling it on your website? How much time are we talking about as far as? I guess design production and everything if if you're even allowed to say. Well, well, well. To put a whole number on it. It's a little difficult. I can tell you that we started with this project I wanNA say probably around two thousand, eighteen probably about the end of the year two, thousand, eighteen, I started working on this project and and at that point, it was just an introductory. You know let's see what's possible with. Let's see what kind of things we can do and I. I worked on this through a good part of last year we developed the most of the hardware I developed most of that to to get everything working with display and with the with Wifi we built plastic Last fall, we built everything that we needed to do. To put the staff together, and then of course, we went through a testing phase. Early, this spring where we had done several months of testing the product in in the field, and of course, live, and we just went to sail with with these. Sometime around the end of June we we went and started putting them out there for a few people to get their hands on and and start doing some testing. So we can find some bugs in some real world situation. So at this point now here we are in the beginning of August I. Think a lot of those initial wants of the woven ironed out and I think that we're we're we're really A. At this point, a production piece we're going to now start looking at the at the enhancements requested enhancements that they were. The people are looking for in the product and I think that's that's an important part of the development of the product. So that's that's really where we're at in. The the time line and what's happened in the interim. While you continue to develop for I don't know what part of the market, the three that you have now cover as far as our va sees, but will you continue to? Develop other models, or do you pretty much have the majority of the market covered now? Well, that's an interesting question. Currently I have I have in development two additional models. One of one of them is for the Coleman's E. C. System, the zone control system and the other one is an earlier model number. The airstream users have a model, call the CCC One and the or CCC as I. Think it. was originally called and that I I revision is what I'd like to replace next that As I said, it's a very popular model. Sometimes, you have to swap control boards to get it to work with with the new system and it's a really bit of a pain but we're we're working on that on that one right now as well as Z say so those two are probably going. To, be appear sometime in the fall beyond that, there's there's really a a pretty pretty openness to where I go. Now I've got a few marine applications that I'm looking at for the for the product as well. There we certainly could add a more direct control method for our air conditioners that don't currently have it. There's a number of them out there. That are currently using a thermostats that may want to. Use this kind of system. So for due to do that, I'd have to develop a control board and take a look at sending communications up the wires that are already there but certainly, that's a possibility as well. You know most of the of the groundwork it has already been developed in the thermostats that we have. So to to add those features to a different thermostat model shouldn't be all that bad to do. So somebody listening right now, Roger, that's interested in and get into the easy touch. How do they know if their thermostat is one that would be like? How would they know that they would be able to swap out thermostat for an easy touch thermostat? That was also an important thing to know whether because there were not compatible with every unit it was important to be able to do that. So our marketing department came up with a model selector that allows us to basically you click on our website. You go on and Click the easy touch RV Thermostat, and then you can see using the model selector if yours is listed in the in the model and it'll show you the picture of your Thermostat, and if you find the picture of course, you can use that model if it's a dramatic if it's a coleman, they're done a little more a little more specifically there's a number on the back of a Coleman that tells you exactly what Thermostat you have, and that model number is is in our model selectors just find the appropriate model number. Okay what about I'm not trying to keep throwing curveballs and but My. My AC unit is also a heat pump. Would it work for these Kalman ACC PUMPS? Yes. Absolutely. The Coleman thermostats the reason. There's so many models of them is many of them are designed to work for specific applications. They're like this one will have a heat pump. This will have an a electric heating element. This one might might have a furnace output seldom. Do they have all of? These different outputs by the have a variation of each type of heating or sometimes no heating at all and what we've done is the outputs as I said, the wiring exactly the same as the original thought stats. But in Coleman a lot of them don't use all of the original wiring they may use only some of those original outputs that are there. But what we've done is we've allowed it to be selective in the program itself. So you'll turn on the thermostat you go to the settings window and you can select what your options are. If you have the electric heat strip if you have the heat pump, you have your furnace whatever whatever the heating options there are. You'll select that in the settings window, and then once you do that, you're done you were you can select it from the mode on the main screen at that point. Now. Very, cool. Okay. Yeah. So have you guys decided what the warranties on this type of product or is it still too early to? Determine that. Microwave. Has had a policy of of having a two year warranty on their product. So I believe that that that will extend that same two year warranty to to this product as well. I don't see a reason why we wouldn't do that. Right now, the best way for someone to purchase it as from your website from the microwave website when you anticipate that being a broad, well, currently, the the only way to walk to to get them is through the website. A lot of that depends on enhancements and how well received the product is in in the in the industry I think it's going to be pretty well received I'm very happy with the with. The product and and what and what it looks like and what it does I think probably within the next few months will start releasing them into dealers by Probably by the time, the new thermostats are available for for release will probably be released the very first three to to our dealers as well, which may even occur sooner than that I mean it's seems to be pretty pretty fast moving product at this point. Yeah I know you have to new buyers talking to you now? So we're definitely. Just Kenny for the pet and me for the cool factor I think. Oh. And then Roger, i. have another kind of behind the scenes type a question when you guys are developing this, do you go to domestic and do you go to Coleman and say, Hey, this is what we're up to. This is going to be working with your AC units. Our customers will be, I. Guess in a sense ditching your thermostats and are they acceptable To the idea they help you. They say, Oh, we wish you wouldn't do that or do you guys don't really even have much conversation with them I can say for the most part, there isn't a lot of communication we we have had communication with both of the companies. In the past we have re regular working relationship with Dometic, especially the Marine Division and. We we've had relations with their with Eric Cell and Coleman in our division. In fact, they use our starters overseas in a few applications but for the most part they're they, they have their very corporate mentality as far as the as dealing with their their air conditioners in their systems. Go they've got away, they want to design it. They're happy with what they're. Doing, they move forward with with the things they're building and it's kind of tough to break into them as a supplier for for their overall product. So I think what we're doing going going from the outside and just looking at they're mature products and and making some enhancements to those I think it's a really the best way to go at this point. Okay speaking of Marine had mentioned marine before the Marine, the marine a sees used in oats and such. Are they different by a lot different than the RV AC's well marine controllers are, of course, very different because they're all water based as opposed to air to air. So it's a, it's an entirely different market but one that microwaves very familiar with we've been in in the marine business probably for almost forty some years in fact that the owner of the company's been stalling. The air conditioners in boats send sometime in the mid Seventies. So we've been around for a long time and very familiar with that with how we got started is is with the marine market. So they are a different type of product, but the concept is largely the same. They all have control boards they plug into displays and these displays of course, control a lot of what goes on. So the market in the product, there is going to be considerably different than the one for the RV market. Oh I didn't realize they were that much different I, mean either consider this. When you're when you're driving your RV, you have zero zero possibility of sucking up seaweed into the water loop. Big Difference between a boat and then RV. Your. Second. You. Did something wrong. And Roger early, you would said that you are getting a lot of customer feedback and that's how you're deciding. What features that add to the easy touch as you go along which I think is fantastic. Sean I both always love to hear that from the companies and production. Wise. How are you getting that feedback currently? Is it through a facebook page? Dr Are the people that purchasing the product. Thank calling you guys. Is it through your website out how do people get that feedback to you? Well, currently a lot of a lot of the way of gotten the. Feedback is through our directly through our website There's a number of information on the contact US page and people have just contacted. US. Sometimes, it'll be buyers of the product who wanted to know how something works or I mean the everything is new about it including the manuals that we've released. So there's been questions about you know how do I do this or you know what does that and at that point we open a dialogue and pretty much things. Go from there I monitor regularly the sales that my career dot net and the helping microwave dot and that website emails, and we get a lot of good information through both of those Melba taxes and a lot of a lot of what I get comes just directly from the customer in fact, a number of customers that probably recognize me from actually talking to them or even emailing with them. Yeah. I like to point out actually that I bought the easy start from you guys right. After we did the interview, you know back in February two. Thousand Nineteen and as I've mentioned, I have the heat. So when I was installing the the easy start, I wanted to be one hundred percent. Sure that was doing it right because just because of that heat pump situation I wanted to be sure I was right. I gave you guys a call and I actually spoke with you and you walked me through it to make sure that I did do it correctly. So I wanNA appreciate you I really do appreciate that in. It's Kinda cool that I actually got to talk to you the person that. Knows what they're talking about? Well. Thank you so I think that was all of our questions. Roger is there anything we might have missed that are anything that you, WANNA add or highlight no I. Think this is This is pretty much it for now yours is the very first podcast that I've done on this new product. So I WANNA. Thank you guys for for having me on and give me a few minutes to talk about the product and asks him really important questions. Again, all the feedback I receive is is really just a great feedback in great great information for for us to have to continue to develop some some leading prod products for the. Industry. Yeah we WANNA. Thank you for coming back on. We've really enjoyed the first time we talked with the and we really enjoyed this time to in an I think you always have very valuable information and it's just great to be able to talk directly to you and get these answers. Yeah. We really thank you for your time. Yeah. Very much. Appreciate you very welcome. Thank Roger for taking the time to explain to us all the cool features that the easy touch our thermostat has to offer I can tell that this is going to be a great addition to our RV. This will truly give me the peace of mind needed for when we leave bell home alone matched with all the conveniences of a smart thermostat that you would find in today's modern day homes with the easy touch rb thermostat micro air is bringing RV, stood a twenty-first-century take everybody safe travels, and we will catch you next time. This episode is brought to you by battle born batteries the best name and the Army and Marine Industry these lithium batteries are designed and assembled in the USA backed by a ten year warranty the best solution for your battery anxiety. So go check them out at battle born batteries dot com.

Coleman Roger Sean Wi CCC USA DOMETIC CCC Honeywell DC Roger Back apple Rogers Mike bell facebook
BP This Week: Fairness for Alla Dangerous Compromise

The BreakPoint Podcast

25:54 min | 2 years ago

BP This Week: Fairness for Alla Dangerous Compromise

"Welcome to breakpoint this. We got a lot of stories to cover here with Warren Smith Warren is on the left coast this week having spent the week national religious broadcasters. I am here at national about three thousand John folks are here, including a lot of our friends here at the Colson center and breakpoint, so it's a really fun to see these folks to talk to them in here. Doing a lot of interviews for the podcast. It's kind of a target rich environment for a guy like me to come and get a lot of interviews all at once. But there's also some real business taking place here as well. The national religious broadcasters board passed resolution related to fairness for all. Yeah. That's actually a significant story because if you follow breakpoint this week on Thursday, actually, I did a commentary on the equality act, which is something that ha- literally has been around for forty years dates all the way back to nineteen seventy nine. It's amazing. But of course, for the last thirty years, it didn't have a chance of passing and with the equality act. Tries. To do is to elevate sexual orientation and now gender identity, although that wasn't always part of the deal to the same status as race, and basically extending the same protections that are part of the Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty nine to gays lesbians transgender and so on so it's a radical Bill. I mean, what it would do essentially would be to in many ways any sense of religious freedom when it comes to having religious conviction when it comes to sexuality. So that's really what it would do in response to that. There are Christian organizations. Most prominently the CCC you which stands for the coalition of Christian colleges and universities. And although not all the member institutions are here. I'm talking about the umbrella organization of the CCC you and then the national association of evangelicals. Again, these are two umbrella groups that have proposed something called fairness for all. Now, if you've been keeping score from home, this is kind of patterned after the fairness array. That was reached in Utah. And the fairness for all idea is listen wool grant that sexual orientation gender, identity are categories of what it means to be human and let that be enshrined in law as long as you just allow us to do what we want to do in our own institution. So what fairness for all sensually does is it grants so g law sexual orientation, gender, identity laws as a legitimate. But then ask for exemptions for Christian organizations, and the NRP just soundly rejected that compromise this week with their resolution that they passed. Well, they sure did John gotta say that. I was pretty proud of them. The national religious broadcasters has said many times that it wants to be for the first amendment. What the NRA is to the second amendment. And that means among other things defending the rights that are in the first amendment, which is includes free speech and religion for freedom of religion. And I think they took a giant step towards me. Meeting that goal by passing this resolution, and I think it was particularly courageous of the in our B to mention the two organizations that you just mentioned the council of for Christian colleges and universities and the national association of evangelicals, which have taken those steps towards compromise. And they not only call them out. But as part of the I don't know if you've ever read these resolutions, but there's a bunch of whereas is and then a therefore it is resolved. But one of the things that they resolved to do was to respectfully urge our brothers and sisters in Christ in the CCC, you the NAACP and elsewhere to reject any legislation that does not indisputably uphold the fundamental freedoms of all ministries and individuals to live believe and speak faithfully their biblical conviction. So it was a tough but gracious statement, and I gotta say I'm pretty proud of them for making it. Yeah. I mean, I'm on their side as well. And I do want to just also thank the NRP. Not only for doing it for doing it. Respectfully. I mean, listen this. This is a strategic disagreement. It's important to say that the CCC you, although some of their member institutions may be it seems to me, but as an organization that umbrella group that covers Christian colleges and universities and the NASD with they're trying to do is reach a compromise and light of juggernaut which is the equality act, and the various ways that religious freedom has been restricted they're not compromising morally when it comes to homosexuality or transgenderism or anything like that. They're trying to make a strategic move in light of what we know are increasing challenges in the name of LGBT rights against religious freedom. And of course, under the last presidential administration. Worn it was I mean, it was like a freight train. And it's important to understand that the fairness for all idea was something that was birth at a time of the Obama administration where the top domestic policy priorities, and in many ways, the top international policy priorities of that administration had to do with LGBT. And it seemed like there was no space Leifer religious liberty. And so fairness for all was really an attempt to kind of carve out some space. I think it's a strategic mistake. But I want everyone to understand that the disagreement is strategic not doctrine will at least in my mind. I'm with the NRP we've written about that. I wrote about it this week. And the breakpoint commentary said, you know, look attempts to compromise that grant sexual orientation gender identity as a legitimate classic human being are highly problematic for a number of reasons. One of the reasons Warren buffet. Because you mentioned and our bees commitment to religious freedom. And of course, I would say that, you know, our friends at the alliance defending freedom, and so many other places play similar roles in terms of what the NRA is to the second amendment. These groups are to the first, but one of the ways that this is highly problematic is that while it protects Christian organizations that are kind of official five oh one C threes as long as they fit the category of exemption. It will do nothing to protect Baranov Stutzman. It will do nothing to protect Jack Phillips. It will do nothing to protect the businessman. In fact, I was talking with the CEO of a Christian businessmen's ministry, which itself, by the way is not a nonprofit. It's actually a four profit organization that gathers Christian CEO's in he sees fairness for all almost in the same category as the equality act in the sense that it leaves them on the wrong side of the fence when it comes to religious liberty. Well, I think it does. And like I say, I'll just repeat it in reiterated. I'm proud of the in Rb for taking the stand that it did while. Do understand that many people entered into supported fairness for all for good reasons. I agree with you, John. It's a mistake. And I'm glad the in be made the decision that they did this week. And let's make this clarion. Call and one of the reasons we cover this break point is is that the equality act was essentially unpassable when it was introduced in whatever form and seventy nine and in eighty nine and ninety nine and in own on. We're just a few senators away essentially for this actually becoming alive option. And if it does become a live option, it's a big deal, and what the strategic approach is going to be. If it does become a live option is going to be a really hard question so between now and the next election. Let me just say learn what the equality act is learn what the problems are be able to articulate the challenges that the equality act poses for religious liberty. This is one of those issues where we need all hands on deck, and we're staring at the next election and warn you and I both made predictions about the last one that were wrong. Making prediction about this one. And so my point is is that the equality act could be a live option in just a year and a half. That's right in one prediction. I would be glad to make John is that if Christians don't show up and vote are the people are going to make the decisions for us. You're listening to breakpoint this week. I'm John Stonestreet here with Warren Smith, stay with us. We'll be right back. We invite you to visit breakpoint dot org while you're at our website. Be sure to browse are online Colson center store of great books and other resources, and you can link up to our social media sites like Facebook and Twitter. Well, we're back on break point this week. I'm here with Warren Smith, Warren jussie smollet that is a name that has become a household. Name. Many of us wouldn't have known who that is just before just the asko that took place in Chicago. He's the star or I guess ace star of a television show called empire claimed to have been beaten up in downtown Chicago in the middle of a polar vortex because he was gay and black by a couple of guys who poured bleach on and put a noose around his neck and said something about this is mega country, which is very common in downtown Chicago who are people walk around in a polar vortex claiming to have voted for Trump. Sorry, I'm being a little sarcastic on this one. And the reason is because obviously the initial charge that he was the victim of a hate crime was quickly picked up by our media outlets who have not had a great track record this year. And then it turned around that the prosecutors there in Chicago. Goes said, no he made it up which it sounded like it from the very beginning to me and out of nowhere this week. The state attorney's office gave him a kind of a sweetheart deal and dropped all charges, and we were talking how many charges were there in this case warned do you? Remember, I think it was more than a dozen. Wasn't it there were. Yeah. I don't remember the exact number of my recollection is that there were nineteen charges. But you are absolutely right. That it was more than a dozen charges. And it's remarkable that all of them were dropped, and John you mentioned a bit ago that I'm here at national religious broadcasters and get to see a lot of our friends, including j Warner Wallace who of course, used to be a police detective and still occasionally consults with police departments. And I gotta tell you that was doing thing. He wanted to talk about John he had been interviewed by on a couple of radio programs about how the police had just been thrown under the bus by the prosecutor that the prosecutor had tons of political considerations that he had to deal with the police were just dealing with the facts, and the police really feel betrayed in this. Process in Jim Wallis, Warner Wallace brought up the fact that the really our moral and ethical considerations. Here. If you will worldview issues that are a part of this case questions like what's right, and what's wrong. What's true? And what's false the rule of law and equal access to the law is everyone being treated fairly by the law or do some get shown privilege based on money in privilege or ideology, and these are really important world do questions that I think we as Christian citizens? They do address while I appreciate you bringing up these really important worldview questions such a calm measured manner. And I know I'm sure he was livid. I just want mmediately got my spiritual gift of sarcasm on. I think I tweeted out within just after hearing this, and you know, in other news Jesse smell Ed is going to enroll at USC on a rowing scholarship. You know, I mean, it's like we just heard so much about privilege in this whole deal having to do with a college entrance. And you know, the. Aunt Becky from full house, and so one for many reporters, it was made ratio. And so on and this is again, this shows that privilege doesn't always follow along racial lines in America, very often, it falls along ideological or money lines. But and this is insane. I mean, I don't even know where to begin. Maybe we should have Jay Warner on our podcast and just let him kind of vent for a bed. I mean, he's a really, obviously, brilliant apologist, and a brilliant worldview thinker. But let's talk for a second though, again about media. I mean, the media's have really bad run and not only because they've missed a bunch of stories, but because after they've missed a bunch of stories, they apologize and then continue to miss a bunch of stories, right? And then thinking about after the two thousand sixteen election, you know, van Jones went on apology tour for CNN, essentially, saying, you know, we're going to get to know the rest of America that doesn't live on the coast, and that was short-lived. And then you have of course, the Covington Catholic. Boys the school that story. You know, basically where it was kind of all about these privileged white kids yelling at this native American elder, and that turned out they missed that story completely. And like I said earlier, I mean, this one wasn't hard in my mind. I mean there were so many things that smelled really suspicious from the very beginning. Yeah. It just really wasn't hard. And yet there was no questioning, of course, you know, it was a hate crime. Of course. And now you have this. I mean, it's just really hard. And again, by the way, I saw some media outlets. Again, do mea culpa like we miss this one again. It's like well. Okay. At some point though, you have to realize that there's more than one side to America. Yeah. Well, you do John. And the problem is that a lot of folks in the mainstream media, don't, you know, it's always interesting to me that if the mainstream media had only white people in their newsroom, they would say that's not good that we need some African. Americans are people of color for diversity. If there were only straight people, they would say, no, we need some gay people in our newsroom at least the liberal progressive. Journalists would say that. But when they look at their newsroom and see that the only folks in their newsroom are liberal progressive folks who do not attend church, and there are plenty of statistics that back this up. They don't ever say to themselves that that is a problem that they need more ideological diversity in their newsrooms. They just assume that in terms of ideology that their position is the right in true position in that. They don't need this diversity of opinion in their these stories highlight one of the insidious ways that media bias creeps in. And that is that they walk in lockstep ideologically, they have only one perspective ideologically and conservative opinions. Fly over the opinions of people in flyover America are mostly lost on. Many in the mainstream media, and this is just by the way, not my opinion about this, Sean, but there are lots and lots of surveys that have been done by pew that have been done by Robert Lichter who studies the media by a fella named Jim Kuyper at the Virginia Tech in Blacksburg. This is data driven stuff, and it's pretty obvious. And yet we just see these incidents showing up over and over again, if you come to breakpoint dot org and click on the button on the homepage there that says resources mentioned on the radio and podcast. We'll link to some of these sources where this sort of media myopia is well documented, in fact, one I don't know if you saw this story, but I mean, the Justice Malek case that I think that was Monday or Tuesday, but that was just out of the headlines went on Thursday, the economist magazine, which is typically, I think a pretty careful publication. I wouldn't call it a mainstream media outlet in the same way as kind of the twenty four hour news cycle, but they did a feature article on Ben Shapiro and called him. One of the main voices in the alt-right. Now, if you know anything about Ben Shapiro, first of all, he's Jewish. Secondly, he is an enemy of the alright he actually needs police protection at some places because of outright protests. He's very hard on them. But it was another example of the economists taking someone who is a conservative, and he is a conservative conservative. You know, what I mean, he's not I would call him center at all. But at the same time, you have to be ignorant, and I mean that not like in a derogatory way, but like you have to be ignorant, and at some level willfully do have interviewed and written a feature article on Ben Shapiro and not realize that he's not part of the outright. But you know, it's kind of like, well, if you're on the right of me, you're in the alright, and they don't so that happened like almost immediately after but let me turn the page on this window warm because look we could blame the media outlets for kind of immediately jumping on a narrative before we know all the facts. But just if you go I was in California speaking to her. Group of grandparents, and here's the back story. We're talking about how to help the next generation developed discernment, and this very thoughtful down the front row said, look, we're not a great example of this in our generation said we're on Facebook sharing articles that agree with us because we're conservative on this end of the political spectrum, and we're sharing it before we know all the facts, and we're not showing discernment. And I thought you know, what that is a first of all good for that grandpa for acknowledging that and second as much as I think many of us want to throw the mainstream media outlets under the bus, and they have had a rough here. Yep. A lot of us are guilty to. Well. That's exactly right. You know, there's an old saying John we get the government that we deserve. I think to a certain extent we also get the media that we deserve. I can promise you that. If media outlets would throw up these kinds of stories that you and I are criticizing and nobody showed up. Nobody watched them. Nobody paid to see them. They're cable. Jeez or subscription fees? They would stop airing those stores they would air something else. And so I think we do have to look in the mirror and take our share of the responsibility evangelical Christians at least, according to the polls or about thirty percent of America. It's evangelical share in some of the blame for the popularity of the stories. We cannot solve this problem overnight. But we can as Christians who are discerning in the way, we consume the news and the way that we share the news and social media and elsewhere can be a big part of the solution. Come to breakpoint dot or click on the link there on the homepage says resources mentioned on the radio and podcasts and willing to some of the articles that we mentioned in this segment and in the last segment, and while you're there check out to Colson fellows program. We'll still taking applications right now for next year's class two hundred and forty people from around the nation. Even around the world are studying with us this year. Worldview discernment I'll. Also, kind of a cultural analysis in preparation to develop a three year plan to live out their faith where God has placed them in the culture. And that's what Colson fellows do. And then you join a network of individuals that are literally bringing restoration two years as diverse as education and law dealing with families with disability and medicine. I mean, the list goes on and on and on and you can find out more information there at our website as well. Stay with us. You're listening to breakpoint this week. I'm John Stonestreet with warned Smith. You can learn more about breakpoint the Colson center for Christian worldview when you visit breakpoint dot org. That's breakpoint dot ORG. Welcome back. I'm Warren Smith with John Stonestreet. You're listening to breakpoint this week. And you know, John, you've already mentioned that I'm here at national religious broadcasters and I've shared with you. You know, some of the things that I've seen in heard here. But there's something that I someone I should say that I haven't seen or heard in. That's Johnny Ericsson Todd. She is almost always at in our be in one of the things that she is known for popular for that. Everybody looks for is. She leads a him sing here. And I gotta tell you. It's one of the most beautiful moments of in our be every year is to have Johnny arson Totta who has a beautiful voice from her wheelchair leading the folks here in some of the great classic hymns of the faith. But unfortunately this year, she's not here because her cancer has recurred. Yeah. That's right. In fact, she was a a featured speaker with us last year at the Wilberforce weekend, and she led the crowd. Bayer in a him right after by the way, blowing our mind intern. Terms of a critical kind of worldview analysis of our culture, and how it denigrates those with disability through doctor assisted suicide, and that's only Johnny that can both lead you in a him and teach you about human dignity and might of the current cultural challenge. I mean, she's just a unique individual. She was certainly deeply loved by Chuck Colson and has continued to be deeply loved by all of us at the Colson center and she's been hospitalized. And of course, she posted about this. And we shared it on our social media channels asking people to pray since her treatments, the radiation that she had to go through because of a recurring breast cancer has led to significant pain difficulty, breathing, and so she's under examination at the hospital. And you know, even last year when she was with us. We were so honored you because she had just come out of some of those treatments for her to join us at the world before weekend. But it was clear to allot despite how wonderful her talk was I'll challenging it was how presence. She was with so many people she was in a lot of pain. And so we pray that God gives the doctors wisdom, we pray that God gives kin her husband, Johnny grace and supernatural healing. I mean, there are people that you know, when they're missing, you know, it I mean, you you saw at this week at NRP when she's missing. I mean, there's three thousand people at an R B, but Johnny's missing and everybody knows it, and that's significant. So we need to be improved for. Well. It really isn't. You said it just exactly right, John. She is one of a kind. I mean, the contributions that she has made to my life. Helping me to think clearly about issues that I would probably prefer not to think about it all and to do. So in such a gracious and loving way, a powerful way has just been, you know, she's in some ways in God's providence has been irreplaceable over the last decade or two as these issues related to life and disability and end of life issues of become more and more prominent in our public. Conversations. Yeah. You know, you kind of look back at some of the early footage from her movie from when she was on the stage at a Billy Graham crusade. And in fact, I was talking to one of our employees just today warned about this. And she's like, I didn't realize she was sixty-nine. You know? I mean, you kind of think of her still as a young woman, but she's got about fifty years in ministry now, and it's really stunning. And by the way, since we're on the kind of the undistracted talking about incredible stories that God worked out incredible redemption stories in addition to asking our audience here to pray for John Ericsson Todd. I want to ask our audience to go out this weekend and see a movie, I think one of your interviews Warren this week was with Abby Johnson, and her film unplanned or the film about her life. Unplanned is one that is getting an awful lot of attention. And you know, coming off the heels of the Ghazni the Kermit GAAS nail movie. Now this movie we're getting kind of a flurry of films awfully that. That will be a powerful tool and changing both hearts and minds when it comes to the dignity of life at the beginning of life. Well, that's right. And as you said, John as you and are having this conversation, I've had the privilege of just a couple of hours ago of interviewing Abby Johnson, and I hope everybody will tune in within the next couple of weeks. We'll get it on the breakpoint podcast. But she is a remarkable woman. She was started volunteering for Planned Parenthood in college. And as soon as you graduated they hired her. She worked her way up in that organization to become the director of an abortion facility and increasingly had qualms about her work there alternately decided to leave and you know, in one of the ironies one of those kind of amazing twist. She was going to go quietly away from Planned Parenthood. She was just going to look for another job while she was working for Planned Parenthood. The folks that were outside the abortion facility protesting would often say to her if you ever decide to leave the industry come see us, and we'll help you. Well, she did that. At and they did help her find a job, and she was just going to go quietly, but Planned Parenthood Souder, and that's what really turned her into a public figure that led to a bestselling book, and is now leading to this movie, and it was a real privilege to get to chat with her today. And I agree with you. I sure hope people go out and see that move this week. Yeah. Of course, one of the ironies is that the movie and large part because it actually pictures at some level and abortion as I understand. I haven't seen the film. I've missed a bunch of screenings in its I'm kicking myself. I just missed it. But the movie was given an r rating, and I think that's one of the incredible talking points that folks can use to make a difference using this film is that, you know, a minor cannot go see this film because it pictures and abortion, but in many states, a minor could go get an abortion without parental permission. I mean, what incredible irony you can't see the movie, but you can actually get an abortion. And you know, look these inconsistencies about abortion are just becoming more and more obvious in the culture. And it is our job as Christians to lovingly, truthfully. Be informed be able to articulate these views. And so that's why we do what we do at the Colson center. Find out more come to breakpoint dot org. Click on the link on the homepage. It says resources mentioned on the radio and podcast. You can also consider joining us at the Wilberforce weekend may sixteen through the nineteenth. And I say the sixteenth because really on Thursday night for the first time we're going to host a very special event at the museum of the bible with Eric Metaxas. And John Lennox one of the infamous Socrates and the city events and our good friend. Eric Metaxas is going to interview one of the smartest guys on the planet. John Lennox come to Wilberforce weakened dot com. That's Wilberforce weekend dot com, and you can find out more about the entire weekend, including the special event at the museum of the bible. Thursday may sixteenth. Well, thanks for joining us today. We'll be back again next week to talk about the stories of the week from a Christian worldview for Warren Smith, I'm John Stonestreet. See an extent.

John Warren Smith Warren Smith Warren Colson center NRP America John Stonestreet CCC national association of evange NRA Chicago Facebook John Lennox Colson Abby Johnson
Grasping the Essence of IoT

CCC Talks

55:37 min | 18 hrs ago

Grasping the Essence of IoT

"Welcome to ccc. Talks empowering e and business professionals in their digital transformation journey find all the latest tips tricks and strategies at our blog and resource center at cloud credential dot org and now our host ccc managing director marco laughlin. Everybody and welcome to another edition of these talks with markle often undeclared credential council. Now today we were done by adela metric dancing head of activity service provider at miyoko. Ag malvo co was a collectively management platform provider had in austria which is heavily involved in all things iot iot solutions on services and adela previously. You're managing director at tally to austria. And not only that was also the vice president of the female leaders network. Am i waiting to get all the time. I believe recently your interviewed by forbes because of that role in the female leaders network so has some ties exam. but they'll tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do this digital iot world thank you mark. Thank you see talks. It's a pleasure to talk to. Y'all so what i do not iot. My journey started a couple of years back exactly like a five years back in the days when it was cold. Machine to machine connected device says big data and yes. I one of those people that that is very much hyped. So very much excited about iot. I was in the frontline. basically Meeting customers on a daily basis mostly the alike big enterprises traditional companies who Back back then were like okay. So i see this big thing. Big waves coming at me. So how what. What should i do. How can i prepare. How can i be just allies my company and my like products. It's harder company and on so it's been it's been a journey or it's it's it's an ongoing journey as you know with not it never stops and especially if your nowadays -nology environment it's always about new things coming in. Every nowadays we talk about five g. We talk about a so. We talk about many many future going. Thanks and i'm very much of the mystics so i very much of domestic. I've come from the days when it was talked about. Twenty twenty was a big year for us because it says like fifty billion devices will be connected that was like cisco or gardner reports and we all have been rushed a towards that number and it was about. We connect everything so basically toothbrushes or whatever doors machines. There was no limits a cow. We even have elephants that we have elected back in in south africa So i think we done some really good so i personally have have done some really good projects but as well. I have contributed like many of us to this big hype of of internet of things where we said l. Let's go and i think that nowadays. It's getting more and more mature which is good. The people are realizing. Let's a little bit mystified this area. Let's see where is exactly that we should be looking at what fits to us our industry our customers and not just basically rush into it. Because it's so it's so nice it's fancied it's a buzzword than you know you go around travel around the world you need to the mobile congress or you go to the las vegas different conferences and you just get all these shiny. Object feels feels perfect which is good. You always need this kind of companies that pushed through and bring new ideas that we haven't talked about connected toilets in know that was a couple of years in in las vegas But as well you know we it's good to stay. Stay grounded and realize okay. So what additional company that For less fifty years hundred years has been producing hardware has been producing a big heavy machinery. So how this company and realizes digitalization and what does it mean. In most of the cases in the cases that i've been working on it's very different and this is what i love about iot personally and why have been very long there and i feel so i see so much opportunities because there's different ways how we can approach different problems and different challenges so it's not one size in one solution fits everyone by this basically. Okay what do i do. I think that's where the company's a little bit out of my experience get lost because they see okay. You know this big Producer or these big companies doing this. Let's try it out without considering. Okay what is that. We as a company no other value but our culture. What is that. We want to see which the us we already have. Got to talk to your customers realizing. Okay this makes sense. These are the couple of years that he won't work with the first prototypes. Go get You know the the approval from the market from the ceos and so on and so forth so To to make the story make the story short. It's a very exciting area to work in. Its so much for me personally. It's a big. It was a big challenge back then and it still is because you know developing and i would like to see many many women as well in this in the iot industry and especially in tech so an iot slash of course tech industry in general and. This was one of the reasons so back two years when i started realizing that more and more if you go up to the corporate ladder or in general when you're in the in the tech industry in international environment that i am the only woman at the table and you know it's it's good. It's like when you're focused on career and you just like okay like i was back then i want to learn. I want to develop to grow. Give me more. You know exciting project. So i was very much very much focused. And then basically. I started looking around and i started seeing different initiatives and i started to do more research and started talking to to to other women who experienced the same That they are the only woman on the table and that they are unable and they are basically you know sometimes feel that they are not involved. They're not included. There was not her. Because you always be groups. You will always have people who are like super lower than they just. You know like to yell. There's lucious out and and in most of the cases other you know if you're not you know pushing over all on all sides and you've been super super loud and if you are moving towards collaboration which is very important variety than your voice doesn't get doesn't get hurt. And that was that was basically motivated. Me that i just started getting a little bit more and now i'm very actively involved where i work. Not just for women in tech. So i have different initiatives that i do it women attack at as well Women in business because we see the diversity inclusion and is so much important blow belly and so those are the things that you know. I'm not is a global business. This is what i was always. We were always saying out and as well this topic that that we have diversity inclusion how to make everyone heard and our opinions heard and included. It's global topic so somehow i don't know it fits together and you know you you meet people so because i am very much about customers. Anything estimates partner working along with them so it fits together so when people ask me about the time i would say that it's For me has been working really. Well is about connecting the dots basically. That's that's one of the one of the skills that that i've been nurturing throughout the years and it's just like okay. What was you talked to one person. You're my brain starts thinking about. Okay how can i love this person to projects or how how. This person should work with our partners. Or maybe i can bring these bursts of different initiative and so few interesting areas and they're making think oil tea is one of the docs in this digital space Can look at. We'll really about in moment. It's good to see you know the gender balance female coming into it. More than we've seen off. I think that's a good thing can only be a good thing. I think probably women no longer as the technology and the nuts and bolts servers. And all that kind of stuff as we move into this cloud digital world. it More about a business enabler rather than the technology itself. I think that's a great opening to get women interested at school college university or later in their career into it because it probably is. It is just business at the end today. You know so. At where technology may have not same degrades. Career may be for some brennan. It's not fun anymore now. It's about at the business. Focus africa's apple iot we'll talk about iot will Technology because it's just there now with all providers. What are we doing for water. The benefits not a thinking. Which i think is good and give a deep passion newfound for iot which which is good as well because i think people understand it. It's very so interesting and water can do and the opportunities out there but what we've seen you probably saying you're heavily wealth A lot of use cases we've seen many companies interested in iot that make additive advantage or some new product for something like this but a lot of companies news that we see Start with technology first and then fail. Spent a lot of money. Coupla million maybe tens of millions maybe a lot more into an iot project. Goanywhere doesn't yield results. then it's cancelled and have you seen examples of this and if you have. Can you tell us where they went wrong. But will what happened there. So i think he ear on spot market with that and and throughout the last years. Oh my one of my job. So one of the The discussion the main discussion. That i tried to help with my customers as a consultant as well to move aside -nology so as you said it's it's a business. It's a business decision and it's firstly about realized kit. What do we want to achieve. So where do we see ourselves as a company in five or ten years. What is the vision of. What is the vision was his mission of the company. How can we if we are hardware a coal company for instance or heavy machinery or factory. So how can we. What is we want to achieve with with these prototyping. Because it's the easiest way to go into a prototype so easy and it's so easy to get ideas because we all have ideas. So if i ask you about three hundred years of out to connect the machine so you'll have it. Everybody has ideas but it's about realizing technology is at the end. I was coming to a consultant to from telecom operator so at the end of technology enabler. And it's it's mike. My job at the end of the day was for this customers to put the sim card or seem chip in the into their devices. Or so and get the data together the data and could process it so we as we realized back then and it's not about technology that comes basically a later stage because it's a different if you realize okay I will have these cameras for instance. Let's let's think about the cameras. And i will have these cameras and they will be installed in this house for instance they will be. It's so that means it's not a moving object so it's a static objects static object require different connectivity requirements. So that means that the -nology so enabling them it's different than if i'm thinking about. I'm logistics company and as a logistic company. I want to be able to know where are more my trucks and cars and whatever i want to optimize their roots and so on and the performance so for them. There's a different set of requirements that they need a these. Were you realize basically at the end of the day so when you work with the companies that what does it needs so maybe i will need forty hours. You know to is not enough to any three g. Four any european coverage need us coverage an east asia. And how much does it cost. Basically but i is. It's very much important to start with the with use cases and what we always advise our customers because what we forgot to say is that i'm not is complex. It is so. I don't want to underestimate the complexity of it because it wouldn't be right because it is very complex and i must say that as well that we all of us in this system sometimes make it even more complex of because for us. Sometimes it's so hard to understand and then when we go to the customer we as well they expect from us to advise that in the best way and what we advise the customers ten was basically that we work together with the partners so we never said like let's fast prototype it and let's roll it out and see what the market says but let's bring best of breed partners that we have in our eco-system and back then we work mostly with with a strongly with partners and then we would say okay if you want to digitalize unit if you are a hardware producer and then you want to you know digitalized your nikola system than we would like to bring couple of partners might be assessed asia for instance or any other partner to the table and then together they would they would be able to work it out so it's important to realize that it's about the ecosystem so it's a and that's what major telecom operators are now talking about. It's about the equa system and it's about you know not going into different verticals. A trying to offer some horizontal solutions. That can help customers not to get overwhelmed. The beginning yeah. That's pretty interesting is it not is about. Ecosystems doesn't exist on its own. It's where it is today. We named for it in the past but it really come on leaps and bounds in the last number of years with clouds more digital enabled technologies that are provided by harmless Hartford snap because that's what they are. They develop a platform realty platforms. It's not the am solution but it takes away a lot of the plumbing Think about anymore. So i think what you're saying normalizations they think about waltz uae. Why are we doing. This will do holiday achieve something for our customers or our business and then knowing that we have to address the app but we have occupied to help us with some of the technology but we still have to join the bit in the middle. And that's where a little bit of complexity comes in which which i think they're trusting because very poorly the partners out there a need to understand the walking away but also understand risk complexity because amb. You're solving you. Redefined solving business problem customer problem or to do something different. That's not easy business. So if you're trying to do that in business outside of the conversation ninety that's going to be a difficult conversation anyway but we shouldn't be afraid of now. I think we should embrace it as art of the business discussion using technology digital services as part of the answer where we no longer have to make 'em build all the it to make it wrong. I think that's free advantageous but certainly iot. We say it does require use of partners and their services as well. I'm sure the company start thinking about iot so you know as you said it's very popular now. People are jumping on the iot bandwagon. We've got to do something with sensors customer data at all sorts of different things. Where's the how do they start. You know what what are one or two tips for organizations to really focus on trying to our star trying to do the right thing. So if i may add just to our previous question. It's always about this. You know you have this Usual business as usual and as well. It's always good to have some part of experimentation. You know so. It's always good to put some effort so it's not about the whole companies is jumping on on the iot. But it's about you know this exploration so what can can we do and then it might be like five percent of our resources or and so on so let's let's try to play out and see what we can make out of it. And then in the in the parallel businesses users utilize running what we have seen through our experience through working with the customers and what we advise them was start small and test it out and then scale. So it's not about you know connecting If you if you are a vending machine for instance and you have your your Your vending machines through the airports around around europe. So it's not about connecting ten thousand of these machines and specifically going into you know the whole europe and the us and china so it's it it's as to be the headquarters for instance hearing in i'll start with You know this five wending machines that you have in your in your office. Let's let's realize who can you know once once we realized okay. We want to connect them. Because you know we want to make sure that we are. Machines are always service that we exactly know. So for instance. If i'm at the airport and the machine doesn't accept credit card. So that i know okay you know it. I have to leave and you have unsatisfied customers or customer. And you know you have a big line That people that cannot use your services so it's companies have realized that the thing is that they're realizing more and more and then of course the ones that used to approach us and not us approaching them so it was all already know they saw. Okay we want to do something. And we see of course that we can use it for the service maintenance choose or the predictive maintenance that was the you know the the basic the basic use case that we that we all know about it so start small. Try our see. See what does see what what works you know and really give give it a try so i it's not about buying cheap one euro whatever Cheap from from china our the cheapest ones that it doesn't work then you don't put the person dedicated person so that's the other things that you have to have people who will take care about about these. These projects not know put another extra effort on on his or her table. So it's it's about you know it's up it's top down the companies to to realize that. Okay we we are treating this very very seriously so we we want to give it a try. And then you need to educate a certain resources like people and time three to six months where you basically where you play play with it and try try different tools and this is where mostly in old all the companies so they did go to telecom operators so in in most of the cases they will go to telecom operators or before that they already have. If it's really roj corporation they used to work with consultants or like the for You know major consulting companies that would go to dam the they would do our big business case for them. They would calculate all of that and with ideas and the second or in parallel is the telecom operator telecom operators they play a very very important role and I in two days. I was confronted daily with customers. Asking me okay. so which. Technology for instance. Should i be using so now or in a what happens if you two g is not possible anymore. Treaty is connected the sunset is we do and then you know the usual case is about you have the backup you know have have either. Don't put all your your eggs in one basket so i think realizing that That we are all learning all learning when we are all growing saw. I i that's why you know what we said before partnering and that it's not like telecom. Operators are eager to give their part of the revenue to to you know different different sides of the ecosystem. It's about realizing okay. United complex a problem in every company different. So we need to. We need to have different set of players who can support. But i would say the most important is to start you know start with this particular use cases this particular challenge that we have start small so because you have at the end of the year award after six months you will have to show costs. It's it's important to keep keep track of your costner. Just spend it as there's not more than you don't have costs For for for other projects give it a try and be very transparent and open about it. So i think it's it's in the company's level i think transparency and openness. It's so important because it's gives the you know the tone and the culture plays an important role where you involve all departments In this in this whole story and make it people in that they are involved and then they feel that they are that they are contributing to the solution and not being basically isolated. Fortunately it's like that that Most most of the projects they end up in the in the. Poc phase are so very fascinating buf- buffets but they stay there so this is a this is another challenge that that we that we have seen the if you re different reports they show they show the same unfortunately it so and some people will say okay because of the lack of the resources or because you know we don't have enough people can look into this or we don't understand it or the priorities have changed and the challenges are to are too big or the securities is so important and so on so i think what matters for the companies is to really from the start trying to find people that you really trust and want to work with and that they can support you along the way the ordinary descend from state. Buy into them. People trying to innovate with iot getting the right team in place. So many case studies now that show organizations put in multi multimillion dollars tens of millions of dollars. Whatever cards into loyalty. Put it into appeal. See proof of concepts gave it. Six months didn't see any return back to shareholders cat. Just disclose them. That's a recipe for disaster. I think you mentioned there that you know start small. You probably will have the answers. That's fine cry. Something fail failed again. It's not failure if you're learning from what you've just fighting basically that's learning experimentation so i think that might be a good framework for some organizations initially anyway looking at starting small the cost to controlling. You don't need mega millions to the start deniability product or anything at. Don't get still compelled sees if it's not working or repurpose reuse. What you're doing alexander saying what. I find a lot of organizations. They don't know what they're trying to solve the problem. Eleven other organizations will say. We don't have a problem. they say. Okay we'll your problem might not be visible. What is your competitor thinking of doing with iot. Because i will be coleman no problem of yours later on so try to experiment. It's not a six month project. You're not gonna get return on investment within a short period of time. What you're doing is experimenting learning. Big things out seeing what works in the market. Unlike they've just so many am viabilty that of command of things that people didn't even try to solve the just. They happen to stumble upon something on the work. You know good also a big conversation. These days i am not on smart cities. So this where we get into the citizens so wakon from the business aspect but into society and how iot might revolutionize our lives as as citizens gino Advance about space at the moment Walk benefits we might see citizens for my ot or is that still early days so those those are some of the projects that long term projects we used to call them so we always had these classifications the private companies and a medium to large enterprises that we loved work weight and and it was like pretty fast where we would from the initial phase to the prototyping to realizing what we want to achieve and then on the other side we had a a long term projects that involved also working with with the government and in inst- advocates itution. And those were the projects that we would follow follow along. Let's put it that way for the simple reason that in any jar at any job that you work with with the government and became there so much of this compliancy different policies. And that you that you have to work around and it so and they are long term projects and one of them of course at that we all saw each telecom operator was working the last couple of years whether roll out of smart meters so that we all know about it and it was through to every country or every telecom operator had had a different use cases and on how much of them harry rollout and which which have been successful and why they haven't been successful until it. The relation came at k. Until specific date it has to be roll out that it was It was basically put a little bit more pressure on it. And of course what what they all What all. It projects have having comment including the smart cities. it's about being more efficient about optimization. It's about the productivity. It's about being green. It's about offering new services. It's about making our lives easier so if you think about another transport or or end infrastructure so we all talk about you know. The scarce resource says the damage. So how we can make our planet greener and of course cities are getting more and more populated their more people so more years of of the services and we are getting more busier and busier so nowadays of us government for his as a project is is. I wanna have all my documents. I can download them. So i never thought about going to some places at this collecting documents and having printed out and put a It doesn't make sense. You know the in the days that we live so so we of course our government institution so will will follow and the idea for me as is normal citizen while is to make sure that it makes my life easier and that i know basically this is you know that i see there's innovation happening so it's not innovation just happening. Traditional companies or big company saw abroad. But it's it's happening as well as well in in in my city and you know again is is known as a smart city But it depends who you ask well. Smart city is a different spicy for you and smarter than for me and for our viewers is a completely different very different for for me. Who's living in vienna for such a long time. It's like oh of course that you know i. I know when the tram is coming. And i know that there is delays. And i want to have you know. Internet fight my in my you know. When i'm traveling abroad this is this is of course. I'm not thinking i'm not thinking about it anymore. Or the traffic dies and the management and that they are getting greener and greener every year. It's of course you know for me. It's like yes that's it. That's pretty and for for some a abroad for some other cities. It might be very very different artists forward. It's a way forward. I think it's important to know to have us feel that we feel that we see the value so basically okay in a our cities moving forward. I see i see the value every day. I think that is i think Smart concept is a huge area for businesses to help government swear business and government can actually play good part with the vendor ecosystem to i mean. Just look at any street. Main street and ninety city say one of the challenges that the citizens face here in the golden face where the costs no. How could we look at addressing some of this with some intelligence digital solutions. Some iot type solutions. I'm i don't think we'll take too long to come up with some of the answers. we know. Change can be difficult and can take time but again it's having those conversations. Technology is so available these days improve privately multi-month as as i'm sure these things look but it did something else in recently as well. I'm gonna a very interesting presentation. Buffs titled star yesterday with iot. I think that's a great presentation title and tell us a little bit about what you mean by starting yesterday with with iot. It's it goes hand in hand with what you said about the change before we trusted technology the dissolution so it was a very much about change and understanding and that change is difficult if we. It's good to put ourselves in in our customers shoes. If i got used to it over the last couple of years that i have the same. You know pat when i go to work. I usually take that road. It's not like every day. I'm trying to new pattern every week or every month. It's it's realizing. I think what we what back in the days with start yesterday with with its was to start to have our customers to start thinking about it earlier before it knocks on your door and realizing that the change basically Look at now. We all talk about in amazon is taking our piece of pie here piece of five there. Yeah but we all knew that five years ago that it's maybe not in that shape and form but we knew that they are not going to stop and we said at the beginning business prophet so businesses do exist to make profit and to bring value to bring over new services and so on. So it's expected from these giants as world. They always come up with new solutions and they are at and they are not asking themselves. basically should offer something. new Am my competitive analysis. They're just going for it or any other companies and that is important for the companies realize that you know. There's something happening out there. There are companies in my industry. That are doing some some new intelligent thinks there. What do they do that. They do that through the data in our gathering the test but they are not in a locked in their room and just realizing okay. I know all the solution. This is what the customer needs or someone told me that the customer neither reports so they are not out there. You know trying new things out and all these big companies. They have problems that they launched and then they failed and that they bought the company something. They closed it. Because you know that's that's the way it is it's not on the market anymore but with that presentation back then it was about starts thinking about what is coming and not just you know. Lock yourself in in in the room. And say i want and didn't didn't work out tried as you said yourself to learn from it you know i. I've seen some companies who have started kind of failure nights or failures festivals and and. Some of them are really large companies here in in australia. It's not that they are. You know going out and celebrating failure that they do. But they're encouraging these transparency pens and being being open acknowledging. Okay if we're doing something we're trying something out. We are making progress. And let's acknowledged this and let let's share share this with the bigger audience with the other departments that they know what we are what we are working out. Because it's it's it's a collective collective it's not like one department is super successful. We don't care we just enjoy our success and the others are just like yeah. Look at nokia so we all talk about. Nokia is is an example. Today the morning. I had a workshop but there was a lot of talk about nookie especially you know the phone part where they went from the. It'll being over over sixty percent of the market share too. You know less than ten years. They went to less than one percent and now nobody knows about them so it can go really really fast. Yeah unless the changing today as you said the big players just doing it now. They're well-funded they can afford to just do. They're doing it without this fear of failure. I think order organizations need to try do things and try things as you said. Even these fail festivals are interested but i always look at when i think about iot in. This country has not faded culture because the love we learn from what we saw hasn't worked out. It's called learning it's on the job. Learning rotterdam specific small babies learn by failing before they can walk the need to fall on them. They stopped falling as much in their learning from that new learning balance before you know they become walked from toxic and all the other things that will require equipped with babies an iot He said doesn't exist in isolation in an organization but also iot doesn't exist in isolation to not you mentioned data. They sold importance regarding iot. Because the iot solution you can do come achieve something. So could solve the problem. Will you can amass a huge amount of data on individual or the situation of being addressed. Amnesty analysis of that data them lead to odor business lines or opportunity renovation letter. It's denial solution or digital solution or smart city service. But you don't get there if you don't have the data first of all and you don't get there if you don't allies the data understand data and do something with the data so i think i o t doesn't exist in isolation of south either would all digital services at needs them as well about would you share that view. Yes for sure. So i think back in the day so that the what is iot so we have one on one side. You have the hardware you have some sort of device you have the you know. The sim car that you have the the cloud solutions so back in the days when i was a telecom operator. Data was a crucial. So it's it's so neglected sutures car then. Transfer the data and of course it works like just like in my phone with that. You don't have these these connections so there's no this machine to machine there's not two and one of the things that i read today About that i didn't. I wasn't aware it. But i've read about knock a case with with the phones then They were in the b. Two b. business you know and they they relied on the on the you know. The acceptance of the market or or which products are which which phones more attractive with the consumer based on the data that they got from from their distributors right so they were distributed millions of of phones and they would get the statistics a dated. Have this relationship so they will be. There was speed to be to see so basically the link was missing and they they they unfortunately didn't realize that you know That's where innovation happens. And that's where you get the data and when you get the inside out what the customer wants and so i think we can. We can learn a pretty much a lot lot from from them and in the last five years at least there was so much about. Data date is the new oil and sunday's new currency. And if you have the data so what we realized as well so when one side of the data and as you said yourself as well the companies very often don't know what to do with the data so you have you have tons and tons of those data and just you know what how do why go around. It's how do i extract Know the value out of the of this and what we have in in europe as well as data privacy and when you talk with the customer with the companies. They all get really an adult data. You know it's it's specific to the people it can be a little. It's a very tricky. It's it's very tricky. But what's important to realize that. Not all the data's especially with the machines especially with trackers or carson whatsoever. It's not all related to me to the user so it's not get it's not taking or gathering any data from you know date of the bird or the name and thought it's just you know the position and it can be a how cold these are outside or whatever any that it's programmed to send it good to demystify. We have some some jobs you on on demystifying with the smart cities when you tell the people about the smartest first thing and with me as well comes the tv cameras. We all been watched. And it's like a big brother and we don't want that so there's a there's a lot of nuances in in between having clean and on time and know regular transport knowing where what and how to you know we are being watched and the government knows what we are doing in the bore letters the scare a lot of people operating within the jurisdiction of the eu gdp or by the missile most misunderstood legislations. That was put out there. Because as you said once you understand it on your Data you know you're clicking a lot of it if it was a car and telemetry about the car not the individual so you may want to see the brakes performing as they should under certain temperature conditions as opposed to walk that means for me in the car to something you know You're quite entitled to the benefit of the ghost. Maria probably a better braking system two years down the line. Because you know when when it doesn't fail something like that. I'm continuing on a lot of people do have concerns about data security and privacy. Now do you think in your experience. Those concerns debate addressed by the major iot platform providers and the ecosystem it. Will you have people who talk about how worried they are then going facebook spokane post everything about their private life absolutely today whole like. You're worried about the smart city sensor capturing something about june that goes government than they know everything about you buddha's citizen you're quite okay carrying phone off in fact when you said loop says giving all your data to whatever whoever it is at the end of the day. Yeah the i think. There's a misconception there as well as a learning piece. But i think if you're an organization providing an iot solution it's probably good practice to try to educate your customers about what you do with the data much don't do and separated out and save data boat you personally. We don't look at data about us a product as a ton of lies. We might use that to approve things. And we've been doing that for years. We've been asking customers for years. We're just doing it a slightly different way. What are one or two key lesson. Sorry go ahead. I was just saying that you said your salad like educating people and unfortunately there has been some cases where the data was mishandling in different cases. Or where you had Some home Smart home devices. Were where you they could attack your device and the but they basically could track it What you're doing and gather some information about you and so it's it shouldn't be like totally put aside. So i am sure that the company so for instance who are producing these devices have to make sure that they have it in in place and they that they have thought about it before. Because it's a a what i've seen through my work is that the security's always very much left at the end because nobody really. Nobody likes to say what he likes. This topic it's just it's overwhelming and on and oral we. Don't we have the expert or we don't know this. It's it's too much so when it comes to for instance to hardware and i think that's it's this companies that are on the far front saw they usually make sure that they re they aligned with all the processes and so all the guidelines and and so that their products are top notch. But nothing can help you if you have a device very very cheap divided by a very very cheap device Or you have your firearm through and you use your standard password and then everybody can heck you everybody can can get into your home and do whatever it wants so there is as you said. Education is is very much the key. And and you know you can do so much in the background at in the forefront as i said if you don't change the password one two three four so then everybody can basically can do whatever they want and you can be protected on the other side as much as you like or front on your point to come back and talk about that because it's so or not if you lose customer trust you're probably lose. You will lose your likely to lose business and that could be significant data breach that significant reputational damage. Find all these other things. People run a mile from the and there are so many case to these people could find the you know. They're cheaper security chips put into iot devices because they're cheaper where if did only spend hopeless sam's more pair chip they would have extra security. I know the law. You know if you have a million devices upstream million extra span. I'd rather pay them. Get the time reputational damage being the news. And i think i think businesses should think a little bit more about out as well but we spend so much money getting here as security is sold portent that we need to invest in our internal security. Make sure our partner security is up to a standard. I make sure that the security hardware that we put in our devices is significant enough not just achieve this thing. Gaza orion examples of those even those home heating devices but have been hacked into. I'm i'm by hacking people that access to the internal network. I'm to the internal network league access to letters business information money. Whatever it's it's it's it's significant but the end of the day. It's a bad press story for that company but creative advice at the end of the day. You know any key lesson set us. I guess hard layered or some of the wisdom of hard gained over the last couple of years that you could share with our two key lessons so one of them is is is definitely about couch rate as we know country it's strategy for breakfast so like say that and i learned that it was hard for me at the beginning working with the customers where you come with so many ideas and inside send how we could do it in the consulting consulting role in and taking them along along the way and i wish they would just shut down so it wasn't the fit so i think it's we were digital natives. Pay back then. Everything's install everything about each is so exciting and there's so much opportunities only saw or the opportunities and we come back to the changes you said yourself. It's not about you know. It's not about how fast i can run. It's also about how the customer so how fast they can run an end. What is what is their culture. And how do they approach it. How do they see it and not jump into the solution so this was for. It's my personality. A lesson where i would get disappointed after like three months and realizing okay. This is not going. We are not progressing. And i gave them all the facts an older figures and all the information that i could figure it out and we are not. We are not moving forward. So i think there's a lot of here so it is especially as this gaining the trust from the customer. They see that you can help them support them. Along the way bring the partners work hand in hand. So there's there's a lot of days in a customer building relationship which is so important and shouldn't be an underestimate these where where it should be very much invested if you're coming as a consultant for instance if you're coming is a consultant to accompany so no matter how smart you are no matter how many great ideas you if. They don't trust you if they don't want to buy from you so you can. You can forget it so focused on building the trust with your customers and of course for for the companies. It's it's so important what we realized what works best was when we were identified. Some of the you know used to call them evangelists or some some of the drivers of this change so because you can only influence one person at the time. So it's if you go to the ceo always very much busy and he will agree when he sees the girl and and you can convince him in in different ways but you need people on the ground as well who will drive this change Day in and out at who will be you know after who will be calling you over the weekend. I try this out and it's not working and can you help me out or can figure out something new and so on so you need this. It needs to play all both side so it's not just convincing. The who say go for it. Well dan as you need to find these people who are the change drivers who are working day in and out and he convinced dam and if you give them you know if you're supportive and if you There along along the weight and you can really make a make difference and you know one of the other things. It's always don't come with solutions if we are all claiming that you know that we are about change and we are experimenting and that we are about learning and it's okay to fail. I think in order to as well go go around that and not pretend that we all have this solutions that we all have figured out everything and it just it just you know the press the button and it all works out great advice to end on a few things you said look at the cultural aspect it is about change a little theme of building trust at all layers thinking about the ceo have their buy in but have people on the ground as direct commanders the influencers because so many failures. I've seen case to these are the ceo had bought in and gave a lot of money down to the department to do something with but nobody their academic dr iot and anna seo came looking for what's on the trusting release. It was just more business transaction. Here's some money do iot. It wasn't here so resources. Let's see what we get a report back in success or make a few failures and tell me what you're learning. That'd be success for me and ceo the report back to the board. We had a few people like a few failures. Come up with a new new. We find a few insights few learnings along the way. Don't call learning if you learned something from on then how The cohort of people that are driving an agenda is not is part of the solution or a solution to get through our business silencer. Try something different like that. But if they gossip linked back dividing to the business potential opportunity all this comes of job opportunities cost of not doing something because our competitors we think are looking at this they are the you know that you know you don't know what they're doing but they're certainly using all these technologies because they know they're having something different as well i think i think that's a great insight into i'll t- if we're having this conversation ten or fifteen years ago i would think the conversation will be more on the technology and what platform for us and all the plumbing but it's great these days we don't have to because of the solutions big cloud providers as taylor Companies like yourself all parts of ecosystem that you mentioned so the business we can go to organizations like yourself from platte provided them say you are expert in these areas where expert in our market. We don't know we want to dress but we want us all to work together to figure something out. I think that's where the value is as you said in my ecosystem a free be true. Value is yes and focus on and be with your customers be obsessed with your customers and the only way you can do. That is if you're close to them and you have the data in about So be obsessed with your customers and have their you know. Be ba loyalty. Customers have build a trust and work along the way. Because no one knows you know mark ee. in two years. There's a completely new new player on the market and then comes with whatever this roped innovation. Then it's the whole of the other existence but not doing anything. It's more scary than trying. Something out. it's easier but in the short in the long medium and long-term it's going to be more catastrophic. I think i think that's customer folks on the customer be allowed to go to be customer centric focus. I believe to achieve success. But i will take adela. Thanks for joining us sedan. Cvt talks will so thank you mark. Thank you everyone. A great pleasure. Thank you for joining this episode of topics. We hope you enjoyed this episode and walk away with a ton of actionable insights. If this is your first time joining us this is us extending a personal invitation to you to join other. It and business professionals. So please subscribe on itunes youtube or google play if you are struggling in any capacity in your digital transformation journey contact. We'd be more than happy to guide you and find you the right certification courses to help you manage the challenges. Modern businesses are facing. This was ccc talked until next time.

marco laughlin adela metric miyoko Ag malvo co school college university austria las vegas markle roj corporation adela United complex lucious ccc europe ninety city gardner brennan china cisco