12 Episode results for "C. N. N. Center"
CNN10 - 11/25/19
"Welcome to New Week of CNN. Ten we are only on the air two days this week. Tomorrow's show will be our last before the Thanksgiving holiday holiday. And we're thankful to have you watching Coral Zeus at the C. N. N. center a new trade deal between the United States and China could be wrapped up before twenty nineteen is over it. It could end more than a year of back and forth tariffs or taxes on goods that the two countries have placed on each other and when US President Donald Trump announced last week that the two countries were potentially close on a deal. The American stock market rose on the hopes of it but while the US national security advisor said phase one of an agreement was possible before December thirty first America would not be turning a blind eye to the protests in Hong Kong or China's other activities around the world. Why might that that matter because business conducted between the world's two largest economies isn't just about tariffs transport buying selling China and the US have two very different different systems of government and China's Communist leadership which controls what said in the Chinese media has also tried to influence what said by US companies that do business in China that's created some tough choices for them and contributed to tensions between the two nations leadership? The United States now recognizes China as is a strategic and economic rival China's coveted consumer market comes with very big moral concessions for American brands and business. If view are doing business in China your political views will be sanitized in favor of the Beijing government in some cases working in China Not only just not do that. But compromises American companies ability to promote our values abroad and around the world. Virtually anyone who wants to do business in China the messages ages toe the Communist Party line or face threats of losing access to the market. What is that line often referred to? As the three t's Tabet Taiwan and Tiananmen China considers. Tibet's spiritual leader in exile. The Dalai Lama too dangerous separatist even though he's no longer pushing the betton independence on the subject of Taiwan China views it as a Chinese province. Even though it's self-governing and democratic and CNN will the uprising in nineteen one thousand nine hundred eighty nine killed anywhere from several hundred thousands of people. It is a global symbol of the struggle for democracy and democracy is a no go in communist China back and I now call on the Chinese leadership publicly as I have in private channels to avoid violence into return to their previous policy of restraint. The more recently added to the no go list for American companies democracy protests in Hong Kong and the plight of Wieger Muslims mostly companies. Hey Hey when China complains last year. US airlines bowed to Chinese demand to change the way they referred to Taiwan on their website. China's Aviation Authority Authority also demanded Hong Kong and Macau clearly labeled as part of China the. US government called China's language. Police were wely in nonsense. The pages of George. Orwell's nineteen eighty-four coming to life there. The White House in a statement vowed to stand up for Americans resisting efforts by the Chinese Communist Party to impose Chinese political correctness on American companies and citizens but airlines obliged China so did gap the quickly apologized for a t shirt with a map of China that did not include Taiwan more recently the NBA. Initially distance itself from comments from a team executive that were sympathetic to Hong Kong protesters. The result cancelled games. Severed business deals are not apologizing. Uh for Darryl exercising his freedom of expression both the NBA and China are now trying to cool this standoff but it just shows how doing doing business in China presents unique challenges Second Trivia which of these adjectives fifths describes a swelling of the lymph node. You've call it blessed pork. You were blue metric. Swelling of lymph node is abuse so the adjective for that is bubonic bubonic is one of the most common common types of plague and that word itself often brings up thoughts of the black deaf the plague that swept across Europe in the fourteenth century killing as much as sixty sixty percent of the people on the continent but that's just one of three major plague pandemics that history has recorded over the past two thousand years and the disease isn't isn't just a section in history books. Three people in China were diagnosed with the plague this month. It's not as deadly threat as it has been in the past but it's still is a threat red in rare cases and while there's a lot that scientists still don't know about the plague. Elizabeth Cohen Discusses What they do. The plague is caused by bacteria. Called called your Siniya Pestis and most of the time humans get it from a flea bite back when plague was rampant and there was no no treatment for it. Play could get into people's blood and it could turn their limbs black and that's where we get the term black death. When the plague struck the Roman Empire in the sixth century it went on to kill twenty five million people eventually? The plague wiped out sixty percent of Europe now before they were antibiotics. The play would kill between sixty sixty six and ninety three percent of people who got it now with antibiotics that were talapity. Rake goes down to about sixteen percent so typically every year in the United States one person dies of the plague and seven people get sick fever. Abdominal pain nausea vomiting. If you get these symptoms and you're living in an area where it's known the plague has been before then you should go seek help from your doctor and you should definitely go to your doctor. If you develop huge lymph nodes sometimes people with the plague they get lymph nodes. It's the size of a chicken egg. Also the Centers for Disease Control says you should never feed rodents like squirrels and rats. And you certainly shouldn't touch them after they've died we've done a great job of getting rid of the plague. Almost entirely in this country better hygiene goes a long way but you can't entirely get rid of the bacteria it's not just a dark gauges bacteria it's still with us. Plague was not a possible outcome in the original checkered game of life and by that we mean the board game called life but but it seems play could have been on it considering some of the other squares life again. The game was invented by Milton. Bradley who was a printer businessman and inventor. He's probably best known as the founder of a famous American toy brand without Abraham Lincoln and really his beard Milton Bradley. Sadly the godfather of board games would have never existed bold statement. I know but let me explain. The game of life spinner the cars the choices college or career kids or know kids lawyer or farmer the family game nights staple once a pretty morbid game back in eighteen hundreds Milton. Bradley was in the lithograph business following the Republican National Convention of Eighteen Sixty Radley thousands of images of Abraham Lincoln who is clean shaven at the time shortly thereafter Lincoln debuted his iconic beard rendering all of Bradley's prints worthless his lithograph business went belly off so Bradley was forced to try something new he came up with a board game a seemingly dark and twisted board game appropriately named the checkered game of life. The game aim functioned in a similar way to how it does now. There was a spinner colored circles that moved around the board and of course squares. That could either make you or break you the squares on the original. Oh game were overwhelmingly grim boasting actions like disgrace poverty ruin crime prison regardless the game flew off. The shelves. Kids loved it and Milton. Bradley went on to own family. Game night fast forward to about one hundred years later they revamped the game. Trading Bradley's Morbid squares for the more delightful ones like payday or graduated which we have all come to know in love. And so there you have it. The story of the game called life. Thanks Lincoln demonstration Gratien of strength reveals a weakness. This is the prototype of a new cyber truck which the Tesla Auto Company hopes to start selling in twenty twenty one the designers bold and controversial but shortly after Tesla's CEO said it's glass wouldn't break even if you through the kitchen sink at it. A metal ball it went crack to be fair. It did not go through the window but when the designer tried again on the rear window hoops as time dotcom puts. Is it guesses not all. It's cracked up to be nothing shattered foolproof and even if it gives you a view into the wind do's and don'ts of testing who's going to be making a pickup pick up where metal balls are being thrown at your truck you need to trade up for a tank and be tankful that even if something dreadful comes your way you'll steal your steal to steal your vehicle so even if the view isn't what you glad for us tomorrow. Show is our last one of the week before the Thanksgiving holiday. We hope to see you turkeys then.
CNN10 - 5/1/19
"It. Welcome to ten. We're up people in Venezuela is the first story were explaining this Wednesday. I'm coral Zeus at the C N N center on April thirtieth conflicting reports were coming out about what was happening in the South American protests in the Venezuelan capital of Caracas one Grado the opposition leader who in January declared himself, the new president of Venezuela said quote, operation freedom has begun. We're going to stand here together asking and demanding the military to join CNN reporters called this escalation of does efforts to remove them as Wayland President Nicolas Maduro from power what we don't know is whether this amounts to an attempted military coup when the armed forces take action to change nations. Government way does Basseterre in Washington says it's not a military coup. He called the constitutional process led by the Venezuelan people and said, there'd be more events in the hours and days to come Venezuelan. Government official also said. It wasn't a military coup. But he told the Reuters news agency that it was another chapter in an attempted civilian coup led by Venezuela's opposition party and supported by the US. So the question here is have members of Venezuela's military, which have largely supported president Madero now joined forces with the opposition protesters who want Maduro at of power at the time. We produced this show. We didn't have a clear answer on that. We'll keep you updated on what happens in the troubled, South American nation next story earlier this month island nation of the Philippines, protested China because hundreds of Chinese boats were sailing near island administered by the Philippines. But this particular place is also in the Spratlys chain a disputed area that includes man-made islands that China has built up in recent years, despite the dispute the president of the Philippines has strengthened his country's relationship with China, and that country's investments in the Philippines have caused concerns for some people there and. Broad? It was US military power in the heart of the Philippines. For decades. Cork airbase was the largest American base outside the US veterans, Anthony grim and John Gilbert. Remember it? Well, it was a low. It really was the town is still called Clark still has VFW post. But the base is a memory the Americans left in nineteen ninety one. We'll have to be at Phnom. We no longer needed those bases. They were not a critical asset. So the old base set idle for years, but not anymore. So this is going to be a major hub the country, but vitae region it'll cover more area than Manhattan skyscrapers, new airport, residential, billions of dollars of investment, and who's helping build it. You are seeing more of a Chinese influence. Sure. A lot of a lot of projects. Chinese money has poured into the Philippines. Recent joining other firms already here this company owned by China's government is building road half mile away. The steel going up isn't from Pittsburgh, the fact that I'm surrounded by Chinese steel, and that China is one of the his country investors in this new city is remarkable given the state of relations between the Philippines and China just a few years ago Sino Filipino relations hit rock bottom in mid twenty sixteen after Manila Beijing to international court over artificial islands. China has built and militarize not far from the Filipino coast about that time, though came a new president brought Rigo duty. My buddy from. United states. You said that in Beijing and soon cozied up to China China has since pledged tens of billions of dollars to projects in the Philippines who supporters call healthy necessary loans. The sheer scale that China brings is something that not a lot of countries can bring to any economy, but some see that spending as dangerous should anything. Go wrong with repayments Manila could be beholden to Beijing. It's the symbol of the judicial off the Philippines towards China. China has doled out hundreds of billions in similar loans to developing countries across Asia and Africa and the US has warned of debt trap diplomacy. Beijing recently took a ninety nine year lease on a key port in Sri Lanka after the government there defaulted on Chinese loans used to build it. The administration argues, the Philippines is different and faces. No such threat, plus the US. Still has a defense tree with Manila. But in this zero sum game for influence when America gives room China will try to fill that void Matt rivers. CNN Clark the Philippines. Ten second trivia, which of these African nations borders, both Lake Victoria and the Indian Ocean, Somalia Uganda or Kenya. Only one of these countries that borders both of these bodies of water is Kenya. According to the world Factbook the backbone of Kenya's economy is agriculture accounts for about a third of the nation's gross domestic product, but tourism also factors in and win a married. Couple from the US state of Nevada recently traveled to Kenya. They wanted something a little bit off the beaten path of safaris in big game hunting. I'm Tracy cheat them and are more McIntyre. We are from Las Vegas, and we came to Kenya. To celebrate. My fiftieth birthday this guy said I could go anywhere in the world. And I picked Kenya. Within the Oland Tila conservancy, which is about forty thousand acres of community land and three times the size of Manhattan. Thank you. I like the look. Most of our guests fulfull intelligent people and thoughtful intelligent people just loved to solve problems. So we show them problems and their response to that is how can I help we built schools, we employed teachers we both a hospital. Nice to meet you. I wanted to make a donation to the kids for school supplies. I didn't want to come to Kenya. For safai. I wanted to come to Kenya. For the people. I wanted to learn about the culture because that's not what people do and I love going opposite direction. They're probably with we have these these students are they traveling to get there some media coup as far as. Does. So that's what you all are working for. Now, you want some place where they don't have to walk so far to go to school. I remember when I went to Tanzania, I was constantly asked. Where was I from? And I would say I'm sorry. What what part of Africa are you from? And that's how this all got started. Because I couldn't answer that question. And so I did one of those DNA tests, you know, so I figure out which countries that I was from because apparently I had to be from somewhere. When we got the results, I was from everywhere. So it's important for me to come back. Because now when I asked the question where you from I can say I'm from here here. Hugh, Hugh, Hugh, Hugh here and here with great pride. The only two different families in the village. And normally they can leave as one family one village. Friends together, we tried to encourage guests to have fun while then good at the same time. They end up enjoying the place on wanting to be part of that project and be part of the community that they have come to this. Well, this is unlikely to hios walnut hills high school seventeen students recently got a perfect score on the ACT college admissions test, and the school says Twenty-three more seniors were only one point away from a perfect score. So what will according to the administrators of the test out of the roughly two million students who take it every year only one tenth of one percent of them. Get a perfect score. So to have seventeen perfect scores at one high school is nothing short of ACT Riddick then became number one with the number two pennsyl-. They said a new standardized the teachers had a multiple choice of students to congratulate just don't tell the competing exam. They had a scholastic aptitude for it that might test some nerves I'm picking see and a for coral zoos on CNN.
Atlanta Journal-Constitution 11/9/20
"Good morning it's monday november ninth. I'm lucas dixon and here are today's headlines from the atlanta journal constitution brought to you by lucky charms magical mission. Take your kids on an interactive screen free adventure to bring back the magic with lucky the leprechaun. Add some fun to your morning routine as you sing dance and meet new magical friends available on alexa google home or wherever you get your favorite podcast. Just search lucky charms magical mission our top story. The presidential race is over but in georgia. The campaigning is just beginning for twin. Runow that will almost certainly decide the fate of the us. Senate the consequential. January fifth showdowns will test a new suddenly swing status of georgia which is on the cost of delivering at sixteen electoral votes to joe biden and the opening moves for the seats held by republican senators. Kelly leffler and david perdue set the tone for a frenzied race to the finish in twenty twenty one both democratic contenders john. Also and rafia warnock have already aired ads previewing. Their opening arguments outside groups have started flooding. The state with millions in spending and major political players are ready to pitch georgians on why the race matters case in point former presidential contender andrew. Yang sent word over the weekend that he's moving to georgia for the home stretch and he's asking his supporters to follow him in more political news at eleven forty five. Am whoops of. Joy erupted in midtown atlanta pots and pans claimed in rhythm car horns bleated at tenth and piedmont people danced in the street minutes later. Angry crowds assembled outside the state capitol and across downtown at the c. n. n. center some carried signs that declared stop the cheat or fraud others carried guns across metro atlanta and the nation news of joe biden's presumptive victory over. Donald trump in a bitterly fought presidential. Election released strong emotions on saturday. Some had been held in check during four days of watching returns. Come in others pent up. Over four of the most tumultuous years in american history elation relief defiance apprehension all emerged as metro area residents processed the election's outcome as did in small doses. Hope in other news. Alex trebek's death from pancreatic cancer has saddened fans around the world especially former jeopardy players. Many of whom live georgia. The news is absolutely gutting. Said dhruv gar of gainesville jeopardy twenty nineteen college champ. He cited trebek's steadying personality for the show's enduring success calling him someone who wouldn't fade into the background but also not overshadow. The game itself in his final game during the tournament of champions last fall guard didn't know what the final jeopardy answer was so he wrote. What is we love you. Alex and caused rebecca to choke up over thirty six years. Travek hosted more than eighty two hundred shows with fifteen thousand plus contestants. He post answers to contestants. More than four hundred fifty thousand times if you try to watch all his episodes consecutively without commercials. It would still take four months. This show under trebek's wants remained a ratings champion. Even as a heavier slice of the potential audience has shifted away from traditional television. Trebek's died at eighty. He announced his diagnosis last year and finally uh shoplifting. Investigation at a gwinnett county. Walmart turned deadly saturday night after two fleeing suspects hit and killed a pedestrian as they drove away. The incident began at the walmart on. Lawrenceville swannee road swannee. Police said in a news release at about nine pm. Witnesses reported seeing two men shoplifting inside the store when a walmart loss prevention officer confronted the men. They ran into the parking lot and drove off in a u. Haul van while leaving the law. The van hit a pedestrian and dragged them onto satellite boulevard. According to investigators the pedestrian was found dead at the location. Their name has not been released. The identities of the suspects are not known at the time. Police are searching for the u haul. Van which is believed to have the arizona tag. Aj three eight four four six. Anyone with information on the case is asked to contact swannee police at seven seven zero nine four five eight nine nine five. That's offer today. Check back each weekday morning for more from the atlanta journal constitution or co two. ajc dot com. Have a great day.
CNN10 - 11/4/19
"Breath welcome CNN. Ten your source for down the middle explanations of news events of Coral Zeus at the C. N. N. Center. Hope you had a great we can. We're getting started with a look at recent vote in the US House of Representatives concerning President Donald Trump and the issue of impeachment late last week. The House voted two two hundred thirty two to one hundred ninety six to formalize its impeachment inquiry of the president this was not vote to impeach president trump or to formally put him on on trial. This was a vote to make an investigation official to establish the rules for how it will be carried out and according to Democratic House Speaker. Nancy Pelosi it was a vote to help lawmakers decide whether to eventually impeach the president it went mostly along party lines. Democrats control the House of Representatives. They hold the majority of seats there and all but two of them voted to move forward with the investigation. The remaining two Democrats joined all house. Republicans in voting against having a formal investigation. This is happening because of a controversial phone. Call that president trump had in late July with the president of Ukraine. We explain that. Call our September twenty only sixth show and you can find in our archives at CNN ten dot com speaker. Pelosi says House. Democrats have no choice but to investigate president trump because they took an oath to protect and defend our democracy and that is what he has made an assault on. The President says. He's done nothing wrong at house. Republican leader Kevin McCarthy said last week's vote shows. There's only bipartisan opposition to the inquiry. Not In favor of it well. What's next for the impeachment? Process Process the Democrats who run the House of Representatives may decide you know. There's just not enough here for the house. Judiciary Committee to vote articles of impeachment. And and they'll just close the investigation another possibility. Is that the house. Judiciary Committee does vote articles of impeachment. And then the full the house will have to vote on whether Donald Trump will be impeached. Now if there is a majority in support of impeachment Donald Trump doesn't doesn't lose his office. That's like a formal charge. It's like an indictment so if donald trump is indicted the way Bill Clinton and was impeached. Then the case will go to the United States Senate. There has to be. A trial presided over by John. Roberts the chief justice of the United States and after that trial the Senate will have to vote on whether to convict Donald Trump. It takes two thirds sixty seven votes. It's in the Senate to remove president from off. I think most people believe the end of the day there is almost no chance that Donald trump trump will be convicted in the Senate. So the question that is on everyone's mind is what will the effect of this whole impeachment process be On the Twenty Twenty Elections Second Trivia which of these. US government agencies is the oldest US Census Bureau your Labor Statistics Department of Transportation Food and Drug Administration. The Bureau of Labor was established in eighteen. Eighty four making it the oldest agency on this list the Bureau of Labor Statistics releases its employment situation summary on the first Friday of every month. It's also called the jobs report which is easier to say and it gives a snapshot of how the US economy did the month before so the latest report says in October American employers added one hundred. Twenty eight thousand jobs. That was better than what economists expected. They predicted an eighty nine thousand job job. Gain in part of the reason for that was the recent strike at General Motors. It officially ended late in October but it had taken forty six thousand auto employees out of the workforce and economists had thought it was going to be a bigger dragon the jobs market then it ended up being the unemployment rate which is a percentage of American workers who want but don't have the job increased to three point six percent. It was three point five percent the month before but analysts say there's a silver lining to that because it showed more Americans pins. Were looking for work. One area of concern was in manufacturing. The October jobs. Report says there were thirty. Six thousand jobs lost in that sector and the LS LS commissioner says that was impacted by the auto worker strike. But this doesn't necessarily signal that a recession is on the way. It's the dreaded allwood recession now technically recession is defined as two straight quarters of negative economic growth but ironically the National Bureau of economic research which officially dates. US recessions doesn't quite agree. It defines recession as a significant decline in economic activity spread across the economy lasting more than a few months the NBA isn't just look at GDP but all the factors to like income employment and Industrial Austria production but notice how it says spread across the economy. That's important why because recessions can happen in one sector but but without dragging the whole economy down we saw that in Twenty fifteen and twenty sixteen for example to that was manufacturing fell into recession but the rest the US economy did not the big question. Today is will history repeat itself on why we're asking that question is because. US manufacturing is once again back in technical recession but he's the king although manufacturing isn't doing well it's only a small share of the US economy with took eleven percent. The modern American economy is driven by other things like consumer services and that represents around seventy percent of economic activity. The danger though is that weakness in manufacturing could then spillover into that big a driver of the economy. And that's the thing about recessions. They do. Do you have a tendency to be self fulfilling. If Americans stopped worrying about the economy and hearing about layoffs for example at factories they may decide to spend into bit less. Perhaps they delayed bigger purchases. And that's when a fear of an economic downturn can actually bring on a real one I'm bringing the dreaded alward Thatta cincyplay most of America has fallen back to standard time. That's what we call it when we're not on daylight saving time time but when you think about the fact that we spend most of the year on daylight saving time standard is hardly the standard still. Our current standard was set on Sunday morning. It'll last until March eighth and despite with my colleague Jennifer Gray is about to tell you you only get the extra hour of sleep if you go to bed on time. The night of the switch. Those was who stay up an hour later on. Saturday may still seen sleeping on Sunday. So why did we change the clocks ahead one hour in the spring and back one hour in in the fall. What's actually to reduce electricity consumption by extending the daylight hours in the US? We change our clocks at two. AM on the second Sunday in March. That begins daylight saving time. That's when we spring ahead on the first Sunday in November burp we change our clocks at two. Am again actually just going back to standard time. Believe it or not the started with an idea from Benjamin Franklin Franklin did write an essay suggesting that people can use less candles. They got up early and made better use up daylight in nineteen eighteen. The Standard Time Act established time zones and daylight saving time but not all states participate to this day most of Arizona and all of Hawaii to not change Sir clocks over seventy countries across the world observe daylight saving time with notable exceptions of China and Japan in two thousand seven. We actually actually change the date of when we set our clocks back an hour to the first week in November this help protect trick or treaters by giving them an extra hour of daylight. One of the other other lines of thinking was that would have a better voter turnout on election years experts. Say Each time you change your clocks. It's always a good idea to change those batteries in your smoke doc detector and always look forward to fall when you get that extra hour asleep. They didn't have to tell me not to play baseball inside. Because well smash that's the very same reason why this seems like it might not be the best idea but it's not like you can just step outside to play on the International Space Station and the ball travels farther in microgravity. So if Astronauts Jessica Mir Christina Cook and Andrew. Morgan can't attend the world series. Maybe they can just being very carefully. See how this plays out. Of course. They're all astros fans fans. The real thing wouldn't have been a washing ton of fun for them but who needs baseball when you've got baseball. Who needs to knock one out of the park when you're already out of the atmosphere without gravity there are no infield flies? No sinkers no grounders yet. Every
WWF vs WCW - Shock Tactics | 5
"It's Friday November first nineteen ninety six and in Walton Kentucky Vince McMahon's exploring the large colonial home of wrestler Brian Pullman the curly blond haired pullman is a rising star in the WWF but he's out of action after shattering his ankle in a car crash so McMahon's keeping him in the spotlight with the story line about a feud. He's having with thuggish. Wwf Star Stone Cold Steve Austin now to keep the fictional feud going McMahon's McMahon's planning a major surprise and that's why he's checking out Hillman's pad as pullman hobbled behind him with his foot and a cast McMahon demand surveys the basement lounge. He spots a side door with a glass window pane. We'll hear film and flops absolved. The cream colored couch to rest his broken ankle. So what do you need from me. Sit there like you are right now but with your wife at your side I will have the interviewer in this chair here and the angle is stone cold. Steve Austin's coming for you. He's going to invade your home and you've got to defend spend your castle. You gotta done yeah. I got a nine millimeter glock. Good good hold that in the interview okay show it off. Austin will break in by smashing the window that side door when he gets in. I want pandemonium. Your wife is screaming. You're waving the gun and and and then we cut will say the live feed went down okay anything else. The feed returns at the end of the show Austin. Austin fled after seeing your gun but then he returns your friends hold him back but you totally lost it. You're yelling. You're pointing your gun and threatening going to kill Austin. Okay and then just when it looks like you're gonNA pull the trigger. The show ends wow when we taping it. We're not it's got a feel real. will broadcast live on Monday so remember don't swear may man wants to step away from WWF W. Have PG rated thrills. WCW's beaten WWF in the Monday ratings for twenty weeks. Running man thinks shock tactics are no the answer when the scenes from films home air that Monday the viewers are shocked the action so convincing that some even call the police angry parents flood the USA network with complaints it USA Vice President Wayne Bekker's also watching as Ross final moments play out. He sees a wild eyed an armed pill mun yelling yellowing all right. Becker frowns did Perelman just dropping f-bomb for Becker. It's the final Straw he's had enough of McMahon's flirtations patients with bad taste. He wants USA to dump raw and if he gets his way the WWF is finished. There are a lot of news podcasts out there and if you're a news junkie like me. You probably listen to a bunch of them well. I'm going to tell you about the heat. It's a news podcast that tries to answer the hard questions behind the week's biggest global headlines. The key word here being global the heat provides the nuance that you need to really understand understand a story exploring global stories through global voices that way you can better unpack the ways at events effect people like you the listener wherever were you are in the world plus they cover angles and perspectives that not everyone wants to touch which is really refreshing some of the episodes you'll find cover topics like what are the. Hong Kong protests really about can the US actually stop. It's mass shooting epidemic and are we too late in the fight against climate change so if if you're interested in adding more context into your Daily News Diet give it a listen. You can find the heat wherever you get your podcast just search the heat. CGT In and you'll see the bright orange logo come up and if you like what you hear go ahead and subscribe from from wondering I'm David Brown and this is business on the last episode WCW concord Monday nights by inventing the N. w. o. a band of renegade wrestlers who WanNa take control of the company the WWF is down but not out out. It's boss. Vince McMahon is planning a comeback soaked in controversy but to make it work. He will shatter the boundaries of good taste and leave. The fans and wrestlers alike stunned. This is episode five shock tactics. It's November Fifth Nineteen Ninety six and in a conference room in midtown Manhattan in Hatton Vince McMahon is getting shooed out by USA CEO K. Koplowitz. She's on the warpath over yesterday's episode of Monday night. Aw the one where Stone Cold Steve Austin broke into the home of pistol packing Brian Pullman your stunt lit up our switchboard like time square we got not hundreds but thousands of complaints and I am sick of hearing complaints about your show. She grabs a remote control from the table and presses is play the TV behind starts playing. WWF's most outrageous moments from the past year footage androgynous wrestler gold dust pushing an opponent's on its face toward his crotch. Steve Austin giving fans the Middle Finger Roddy Piper beating gold dust with a baseball bat and promising to make a man out of him and last night's offering Brian Pill mean dropping the f word on live TV koplowitz pauses the video and turns back to McMahon. That stuff is not fun and it's not for kids not to mention. It breaches the standards in the contract that you signed with us. McMahon hold his hands up. You're Ri- You're right. We took things too far. Yesterday we wanted to get audience attention and it came across as more real than anticipated. I promise that the swearing was unintentional. That was unacceptable. I'll make public apology on the next episode but McMahon's remorse only goes so far the home invasions not help raw cut into WCW Monday nitro lead in the ratings during one quarter hour segment raw even tied with nitro convinces McMahon that he can win by outdoing WCW on outrage he figures that even if WCW chief Eric Bischoff follow suit the higher ups at Turner Broadcasting Asti will stop him even so McMahon knows. This is a high wire business strategy. He's got a dial up up the sex and violence without USA shutting him down and he's not the only man it's January nine hundred ninety seven and a police convoy heads through the dark snow covered streets in downtown Cedar Rapids Iowa behind the cops are garbage trucks and hanging off the back of the are the rebel wrestlers of the N. w. o. WCW's pretend enemies within BISCHOFF. Thanks garbage trucks trucks are a good fit for N. W. Os image gritty anti-establishment cool wrestlers cling to the dust cards whooping and cheering and trying to ignore the freezing reason cold it's twenty below zero and they're wearing jeans t shirts and leather jackets the procession of garbage truck stops at the five seasons center arena and the NWF squad swarm in through backstage door viewers at home see the w. co-stars entered the arenas swaggering and posing like a street gang leading them is Hollywood Hogan as Hulk Hogan is now no tonight right is a WCW pay per view but it's not billed as one instead. It's branded as an N. W. O. Show since its inception six months ago the N W O's renegade wrestlers have been electrifying fans. They're manufactured rebellion is lighting a fire under WCW TV ratings live ticket sales and merchandising revenues black t-shirt stamped with the WWL's quite spray painted logo are are now must have items for WCW fans WCW thought would lose a million dollars nineteen ninety-six but thanks to the N. W. wwl it delivered profits of more than three point five million dollars now bischoff wants to build on that momentum he plans to split WCW and N. W. O. into two separate wrestling promotions. WCW shows will cater to the the PG FAMILY AUDIENCE IN W. O. Will be the alternative for young adults together. They will assault the WWF from two fronts. It's Bischoff hopes this dual attack will push the WWF into being too edgy for families but to juvenile for everyone else however for the plan to work. He's got to be sure the N. W. O. can stand alone from the WCW and that's what tonight all about over the next two and a half hours viewers get a taste of wrestling in W. O. style. There's is an industrial looking set in strobe lights explosions thundering drums and crunching guitar riffs. It's enough to make the everyday families in the Iowa arena look like hostages in Maryland Manson video. As the show continues the audiences expression slowly changes from bewildered two board. They expected a wrestling show instead. They're enduring cringe. Inducing sideshows like the Miss in W. O. contest where local Nicol female bikers straddle motorcycles while answering Innuendo laden questions by the main event. The audience seems half asleep. They chat among among themselves in cheer halfheartedly. Even the firecrackers signaling the entrance of Hollywood Hogan failed to ignite any enthusiasm when Hogan celebrates his victory by Yanking off his opponents trucks to expose his buttocks comatose crowd barely responds the pay per view use sales compound the disappointment only one hundred and seventy thousand people paid for the show far below. The two hundred and fifty thousand buys the average. WCW would you pay per view gets. It's a setback that forces. Bischoff to shelve his plan to crush the WWF between the WCW and the end of what you owe but while Bischoff hits a roadblock in Iowa Vince McMahon has been making friends. It's February twenty fourth nineteen ninety-seven and backstage at the Manhattan Center in New York City. WWF Announcer Jerry lawler is trying to wrap his as head around McMahon's latest stunt. I don't get why do you want easy w here they're small enough to live in an F. R. McMahon's has been flirting with the idea of bringing extreme championship wrestling onto his show for months EC. W is an underground wrestling promotion that works out of a former Bingo Bingo Hall in Philadelphia and it's one a cult following with its brutal anything goes brand of wrestling McMahon peers over his thin rim spectacles at the round-faced ex-wrestler yes easy. W. Isn't on par with us not even close but they bring energy and unpredictability. We need that EC. CW will also show viewers what a sham in W. O. is. I still don't like it. I hate what they do good. It's supposed to be a rivalry rate. US THAT E C W matches vicious and bloody wrestlers battled rings with Matt's covered in thumb tacks in ropes made a barbed wire wrestlers have been set on fire bashed with frying pans cut with knives and punctured with staple guns. One fighter Hadarim stubbed a cigarette out on his opponents. I the cigarette incident was faked. Given the promotions reputation for violence. The crowd left the match convince. It was real. McMahon doesn't want anything that extreme but he does want e C. W Street cred to RUB OFF ON. WWF HALF IN RETURN E C W gets to hawk its first ever pay per view to the million plus viewers of Monday night raw eight minutes into that night's show the e C W invasion begins to e CW wrestlers storm into the Ring Ravis Rabba scared looking ring attendant and kick him to the floor next a man wearing a black trenchcoat in baseball cap enters the rate. He's Paul Hainault the boss of e c w what did I tell you McMahon after the dramatic entrance Heyman joins McMahon and lawler at the ringside announcers desk as viewers watch a mix of WWF matches and safe for Primetime E C. W belts the three announcers trade insults. Hey McMahon. I gotTa tell you something you and I could announcer. WWF thing does not work out for you. Yeah we give you a job any joke crossover with E C. W doesn't didn't do much for Ross ratings but it sends a message to hard core fans that WWF is moving on from its reputation as a kids wrestling show and it's just as well because the WCW is about doing crease the pressure. It's summer nineteen nineteen ninety-seven and in the C. N. N. center in Atlanta. WCW Boss Eric Bischoff and a group of senior Turner Broadcasting Executives are grappling with Ted head-turners latest edict Turner's so pleased with Monday nitro ratings that he's decided there should be a second prime time. WCW You show he wants a live two hour broadcast every Thursday to soak up AD dollars from car dealerships movie studios and other advertisers. That's been big in the lead up to the weekend now. It's up to Bischoff and these executives to make Turner's orders reality. One executive asks Bischoff to estimate the cost of the new show well. We're we're GONNA need a bigger production team. Maybe another forty people you will need to expand our roster of talent to if we just use the same wrestlers over and over the fans will lose interest all together. I guess we're looking at twelve to fifteen million a year to make the show the executives around the table recoil since Time Warner took over life at Turner Broadcasting has gotten more corporate they've got double digit profit growth targets to meet the cost of WCW's Thursday night show could be the difference between hitting or missing their targets the head of tbs the Turner Network that will broadcast WCW's new show jumps in first off Eric. You cannot hire hire more staff time. Warner's imposed recruitment freeze also. I'm not paying for the show. Bishops jaw drops why you're the network. WCW Is the production company technically. You're buying the show from us. I don't care I'm not paying for it. BISHOFF freezes. He doesn't want to foot the bill after all. He's only just steer. WCW into the black after years in the red he's not even ensure he wants to make this show given the extra workload it will pile on his overstretch team. But what choice does he have. Ted Turner wants this show and it's his name above the door besides Turner's always been. WCW's biggest champion surely surely he would understand if WCW faults back into the red but what the Turner Broadcasting Executives in the room aren't telling alling bishop is that Time Warner regards Turner as yesterday's man having bought his company last Fall Time Warner is is already freezing turner out and stripping him of his power and as Turner's power seeps away those within Turner Broadcasting Odd casting who want to kill off WCW are sharpening their knives shipping and mailing from your desk has never been simpler than with sent pro online from pitney bowes with central online from Pitney bowes is just click sand and save for his lowest lowest four ninety nine. That's four dollars and ninety nine cents a month. Send envelopes flats and packages right from your desk and you are back to business in no oh time and for being a business worse listener you'll receive a free thirty day trial to get started and a free ten pounds scale to ensure that you never overpay. Hey starting at four ninety nine per month. You can also qualify for special. USPS rates for letters and priority mail shipping calculate exact postage online and print posters posters right there from your pc save time and money on mailing and shipping with semi pro online go to PB DOT COM slash BWI access this special offer for a free thirty day trial plus a free ten pounds scale to get started. That's PB DOT com slash. Vw Experience Shipping made simple with a free retrial of sent pro online from pitney bowes growing. A business is hard especially when you're wasting hours every day moving data data from e mails to spreadsheets to your crm to wherever shouldn't that kind of stuff just happen without you. Lifting a finger or the great news is it can and Zappia can help. Zapper is the easiest way to automate your work. It connects all your business software so you can focus on the things that matter most host that means no more wasting your time on tasks that you know could be automated because that's exactly what Zapper was built to do. Just go to Zapping your dot com slash. B W connect the APPS that you use most and let Zap your take it from there Zappia let you instantly engage with leads leads. Send them to a crm or spreadsheet. Ben Notify your team so they can act fast on every opportunity join more than four and a half million people who are saving being an average of forty hours per month by using Zappia and right now through November. You can try Zappia for free but only when you go to Zappia dot com slash Ashby W that's Z. A. P. I E. R. dot com slash. VW for Your Free Fourteen Day trial Zappia DOT COM Tom Slash VW it's October sixth nineteen ninety-seven and the WWF is in a state of shock. Is it prepares here's to fill Monday night raw in Kansas City last night. Brian Pullman was found dead in an Indiana Motel Room. The autopsy will later find thirty five year old wrestler died from an undiagnosed heart condition but right now everyone thinks he died from a drug overdose films being going off the rails for months the line between him and his loose cannon wrestling persona melting away in a haze as a prescription drugs and wrecked rental cars for Vince McMahon pullman sudden debt spell trouble he fears it will spark new drug scandal scandal at the WWF so he's moving fast to ensure that the WWF doesn't get blamed for films debt and that's why he's lined up a live interview with Films Wife Melanie less than twenty four hours after her husband's death as the commercial break draws to an end McMahon checks the monitors showing the live feed with Melanie at the pigewoman residents melanie. You know you could still back out. He here's Melanie's response through his headset. Now it's fine. The interview is straight out of the Jerry Springer playbook after Melanie notes how injuries from a car crash contributed to films USA painkillers McMahon probes deeper knowing how power the children taking just news and and do they understand well a four a year old doesn't understand but Brittany understand and she just screamed for about fifteen minutes. If you had any the opportunity to think about what you now is a single parent will do to support your five children. I don't even really know what day it is so backstage horrified. WWF Wrestler Watch as Tillman's widow is served up as mass entertainment but McMahon's hunger for controversy is just beginning. It's November remember night nineteen ninety-seven and in Montreal Canada. WWF champion Canadian Wrestling Hero Bret Hart is defending his title against pretty boy grapplers. Shawn michaels taken weeks for McMahon Hart and Michaels to agree how this fight will play out hard is about to join WCW so Kabq man wanted him to lose to Michael's tonight but Hart refused he can't stand michaels and he doesn't want to lose the belt in his homeland so so the three made a deal tonight's match will end in a disqualification that way heart can forfeit his title at a later date outside candidate ended in the final moments of the fight Michael's pins face down on the map and that's when heart notices something strange enj- McMahon's standing at the side of the ring instead of being at the announcers desk McMahon turns to the Bell Ringer Ring. The Bell Doc read the bell as the Bell Tolls Heart Stares in shock McMahon's double vote crossed it and given his title to Michaels in front of his home crowd outraged fans build the arena with angry cries part leaps to his feet overwhelmed with rage he lunges to the ringside leans over the ropes and spits into McMahon space. The McMahon wipes the spittle from his eyes yells at Michael's take the belt and get the hell out of here as Michael whisked away heart goes on a rampage he jumps from the RIM and start smashing TV monitors and flinging headsets into the crowd then he notices McMahon's gone. He storms backstage. McMahon is barricaded himself in his office HEART TRIES IN VAIN TO SMASH DOWN THE STEEL DOOR before stopping off to the locker room after taking a shower heart emerges to find McMahon man standing in the locker room. McMahon breaks the silence. You left me no choice. I'm sorry it had to happen. This sway heart explodes. Who are you kidding you. Lying pieces part lunges slams his fist. I into McMahon's jaw the WWF boss is sent flying. He crashes onto the floor. Unconscious heart screams at the wrestler stepping into protect their boss. Get him out of here or I will finish him. The wrestlers pull McMahon onto his feet and help him out of the locker room in the weeks that followed double cross. WWF FANS turn on McMahon at every event McMahon finds himself greeted with boos and insults Internet. Wrestling forums are filled with vitriol against the wrestling mogul McMahon's shocked. He's used to being the straight man the neutral observer now he's the most hated man in wrestling but rather than apologize he turns it to his advantage he becomes. Mr McMahon the corrupt corporate puppeteer who screws over the fans favourite wrestlers in the wake of the betrayal in Montreal raw ratings start climbing by turning himself into the ultimate he'll McMahon's finally hit on a storyline powerful enough to tell your viewers away from WCW Monday nitro and with WCW's WCW's lead crumbling McMahon finally feels ready to shed WWF P G skin on December Fifteenth Nineteen ninety-seven Monday night raw opens with an address from McMahon. He stands in front of the camera in a checked based suit and promises a new era at wwf we in the WWF think that you the audience are quite frankly tired of having in your intelligence insulted. We also think that you're tired of the same old simplistic theory of good guys versus bad guys surely the era of the superhero the hero urge you to say your prayers and take your vitamins is definitely passe for years. McMahon chased the family audience and sought to make WWF entertainment for all but now he's going to use Monday night raw to reach out to a new audience young men who watched WCW McMahon knows that he can only win them over by pushing the boundaries and cutting loose from the family viewers so so he's going to make raw more outrageous more raunchy and more aggressive and his break with the past has come just-in-time just-in-time after months of preparation. WCW is ready to launch its new Thursday night. Show the show. It hopes will cement. WCW's he ws ratings dominance once and for all the final showdown between the WWF and WCW is it's beckoning and only one will survive on the next episode. WWF embraces the dark side Eric Bischoff fights to save WCW and a wildlife charity forces a big change at the WWF hello from one day. This is business wars. We hope you enjoyed this episode and we invite you to subscribe on Google podcast. Stitcher spotify apple podcasts iheartradio or wherever you get your podcasts there's a link on the episode notes and if you tap or swipe over the cover art you'll see some offers more sponsors. We hope you'll support our show by supporting them. It would be terrific if you could give us a five star rating and tell your friends how to subscribe to there's it's another way that you can support business worse and that's by answering a short survey at one dot com slash survey and don't forget to tell us what business war stories you'd like to hear. We should say say something about the conversations in this episode. We can't know exactly what was said but this dialogue is based on our best research. I'm your host David Brown. Tristan Donovan wrote this story. Karen and low is our senior producer and editor donahue. -Times edited the story. Our editor and producer is jenny lower beckmann sound design by Kyle Randall for Bay Area Sal. Our executive producer is Marshall. Louis created by earn on Lopez four wondering.
CNN Exclusive Poll: 87% say Mueller's findings should be made public while Trump says he doesn't mind if public sees report; CNN Exclusive Poll: Mueller's approval ratings rebound as 48% now favor his handling of Russia investigation; Trump calls Kellyann
"Hi, everyone. It's poppy Harlow on this week's episode of boss files. Jamie diamond he guided J P Morgan Chase through the financial crisis building based on market cap. The most valuable Bank in the world. But he's worried very worried not about the state of his Bank, but about the state of America, plus where he puts the risk of near-term recession. What keeps him up at night? How critical he thinks it is we see a US China trade deal and the politics of it all as we head toward twenty twenty. Listen to my full conversation with Jason Morgan. Chase CEO Jamie diamond on boss files. Subscribe on I tunes. Happening now breaking news. Let people see it. President Trump slams the special counsel Robert Muller, but says he wants to see Muller's report and says he wants the public to see it too. And breaking our exclusive new CNN poll shows that a huge majority agrees wants Muller's findings to be made public. Can't stop won't stop President Trump launches another scathing attack on the late. Senator John McCain, even as Republicans, call the president's words deplorable why can't why won't the president stop whacking away, President Trump trades insults? With conservative lawyer, George Conway calling the husband of one of his top advisors. Quote, wack job. His Kellyanne Conway now signing with the president against her husband and her roic pilot disturbing new details about what happened aboard one of the Boeing seven thirty-seven max airline. Liners that crash and how her roic pilot of verdict disaster just the date before the fatal flight, I'm wolf Blitzer? You're in the situation. This is CNN. Breaking news. Breaking news CNN's exclusive new poll shows support for impeaching president. Trump has dropped thirty six percent largely due to a decline among Democrats, but approval ratings for special counsel, Robert Muller have rebounded and Americans are evenly divided on whether it's investigations likely to personally implicate the president and an overwhelming majority eighty seven percent same Muller's findings should be made public. President Trump says he doesn't mind if the public sees the mullahs report, but he renewed his attacks on the special counsel today and just now in his speech at a military manufacturing plant. He stepped up as unrelenting assault on the late. Senator John McCain insulting him repeatedly. Once again, even as key members of his own party are saying the president should simply stopped off speak with democratic congressman came Jeffries of the judiciary committee and our correspondents analysts. They will have full coverage of the day's top stories. Let's begin with our White House. Correspondent abbie. Philip she's on the road with the president in Ohio, Abby, the president is still still attacking special counsel, Robert Muller. And you just heard him deliver yet another rant aimed at the late. Senator John McCain update us. That's right. Well, this was supposed to be event about investments in the military and manufacturing and those tanks sanding right behind me. But it instead was about the president's diatribe against the late. Senator John McCain who he's been attacking on Twitter all week. The president started his morning actually, attacking to other individuals special counsel, Robert Muller and the husband of one of his top aides Kellyanne Conway, let it come out. Let people see it a change of tune from President Trump who now says he wants the public to see the Muller report. I think it's ridiculous. But I want to see the report, and you know, who want to say it, the tens of millions of people that love the fact that we have the greatest economy we've ever had this coming weeks after the president suggested his willingness for transparency depend on what's in it. You wouldn't have a problem came public excuse me. It's up to the attorney general. I don't know. It depends. I have no idea what it's going to say. But Trump isn't giving up his. Attacks on Robert Muller. But it's sort of interesting that a man out of the blue just right to report, I know that he's conflicted. And I know that his best friend is call me who's a bad cop. And I know that there are other things the president insisted this afternoon that he has no inside information about the timing of the report, but he expressed confidence in his new attorney general William bar to make the final call. I have no idea what it's going to be really now at the same time. Let it come out. Let people see it that's up to the attorney general Eva, very good attorney general of very highly respected. And and we'll see what happens. Trump's attack on the Muller probe comes as he launched into an unprompted rant against the late. Senator John McCain at a tank factory in Lima Ohio today. I have to be honest. I've never liked him much hasn't been for me. I've really probably never will blaming McCain for his handling of the dossier. John McCain received the. Fake and phony dossier, and what did he do didn't call me? He turned it over to the FBI hoping to put me in jeopardy as the crowd. Listen, silently, Trump evoked McCain's funeral last summer in Washington. And I gave them the kind of funeral that he wanted which has president I had to approve I don't care about this. I didn't get thank you. That's okay. Trump also feuding with the husband of his top aide Kellyanne Conway after her husband, George question. Trump's mental stability is a whack job. There's no question about it. But I really don't know. He I think he's doing a tremendous service to a wonderful wife, Kellyanne is a wonderful woman. And I call him Mr. Kellyanne the fact is that he's doing it. Tremendous service to a wife and family. She's a wonderful woman on the White House lawn and again at the tank factory in Ohio Trump paused for some show. Oh, Intel brought this out view because this is a map of everything to read. This was on election night. In twenty sixteen. Months after he declared ISIS defeated and ordered his generals to withdraw US troops from Syria. The president acknowledged of some four hundred troops would remain. But today, he insisted that ISIS is nearly gone everything read as ISIS what I took it over with a mess now on the bottom. That's exact same. There is no red. Fact is actually a tiny spot which will be gone by tonight. Well in this room during President Trump's attack on McCain. It was almost silent as he went on and on. There were many members of the military in the audience one within eyeshot of me, and I could see him standing stoically as the president attacked a war hero now while this is all been going on for several days. We've heard so little from Republican senators, but one of them Senator Johnny Isakson did speak out today calling the president's comments deplorable will now the thanks very much Phillip in Ohio for us. Let's bring in our political director, David Shelley, David. We talk about this new job. Let me get your quick reaction to this really continued stunning round of attacks by the president of the United States on the late. Senator John McCain is that I gave him the funeral. He wanted. He said, and I never got a thank you. Yeah. When when President Trump obsesses on something like this. It's a clear indication to me will he understands he's on the losing end of this political argument. He. Knew that last August when Senator John McCain was laid to rest, and he had this inexplicable flap over whether or not the flag should be lowered. Now, of course, he's trying to take credit for the way in which John McCain was laid to rest, but it is so clear that this sort of American hero is so under this president skin. Who knows he's losing by comparison to John McCain, and he can't seem to let it go. He he is completely in the last week or so just continuing this attack on a record that is so clearly above and beyond when it comes to service to this country, and the president seems incapable of acknowledging even fellow Republicans like Senator Johnny Isakson of Georgia Mitt Romney of Utah and a whole bunch of others. They can't believe that this president is continuing this rant against the Senator McCain, let's get to this new CNN poll. Give us the the major headlines if you will well wolf you want at the top of the show, which is that Republicans. Mccracken independence agree on almost nothing. These days in American politics. But this they agree on in your hurt. President Trump talk about it that the Mola report should indeed be made public. You're the president said it'd be fine. Look at this. It's eighty seven percent overall. But eighty percent of Republicans think the report should be public. Eight percent of independence ninety five percent of Democrats. There is complete consensus by the American people that they wanna see what's in this report. And if they don't get to see I think those numbers are going to be real political pressure points for attorney general bar for President Trump. How about just the approval ratings both for Muller and Trump on this issue? First molar, you said his numbers of rebounded. And they have look at that. He's at forty eight percent approval. Now of how he's handling the rush investigation that's up from where he was in December and February effect it's back to a near high from Muller in our polling throughout this entire process. And Donald Trump does not compare well to that forty eight percent. He's down at thirty two percent approval on this issue. It's one of his worst issues that we test his handling of the rush investigation. Fifty. Seven percent of Americans in this poll disapprove of the way, the president handles. Now, remember the other day the hospital Nancy Pelosi said she opposes going through with impeachment at this time. She said at one point she said the president's quote, not worth it. What is our new poll reveal about the appetite for impeachment? Well that appetite is a lot less than it was. And then we've seen you mentioned at the top thirty six percent in this poll say they would be in favor of impeachment. That's that's just a very small slice third of Americans. That is not a certainly not a majority position. Obviously, it's a weakened position for those supporting impeachment look at this. It is mostly coming from movement. Among Democrats just in December eighty percent of Democrats said they were in favor of impeachment. Now, it's only sixty eight percent, that's twelve point drop. It's gone down a little bit with independence down a little bit with Republicans. But you point into Nancy Pelosi. I think that is one of the big reasons that we're seeing that twelve point drop that end the democratic race for twenty twenty started. I think the you are seeing Democrats aware there. Just your way year and a half away from a presidential election. They're starting to choose who they want to defeat Donald Trump. I think they're thinking less about trying to remove him from office speakers where it's clearly at an impact on her fellow Democrats. Thanks, very very much David chalian for that. While congressional Democrats pursue a number of queries into the Trump administration. The powerful house oversight committee chairman is not complaining that the White House is rejecting all of his efforts to obtain information. Let's go to our senior congressional correspondent mono Raja these up on Capitol Hill amount of your learning. What another house committee expects a former top Trump eight though to cooperate? Yeah. That's right. How she sure committee is expecting to get documents from hope Hicks, who's the president's former communications director has longtime confidante who has informed the committee that she does. In fact, plan to provide documents to the house to dish in committee as part of its investigation democratic investigation into potential, obstruction of Justice and Democrats. I believe are abuses of power in this office. Now, Jerry, Nadler, the chairman of this committee had sent takes a letter earlier this month asking her to respond to new Ray of questions about the president's knowledge Volvo, those false statements that Michael Flynn, then national security adviser had made to the FBI about the firing of former FBI director James Comey about that false misleading statement that was initially given to the media after it was revealed that Donald Trump junior had a meeting in Trump Tower back in twenty sixteen with Russians among other issues, including they ask for diaries and other documents that she has taken while she was in the White House. Now, we are told by spokesman for Nadler that in fact, she has agreed to turn over these documents attorney has declined to comment now the question of how much information she does plan to provide when she met with the house intelligence committee last year. She would not talk about her communications when she was in the White House. Democrats demanded that information when she was never the White House. She. Would only talk about things that happened during the campaign will that change? Now, the Democrats are in the majority one of the big questions, but at least one key witness coming very close to the present plans to signaling to the committee that she at least plans to cooperate. Well, armato. Thanks very much entourage up on Capitol Hill. Let's stay up on Capitol Hill congressman came Jeffries of the orcas joining us. He's actually joining us from his hometown of New York City right now, he's not only a member of the judiciary committee is also the chairman of the House Democratic caucus. Thanks so much congressman for joining us. Thanks for having me wolf, right? Let's begin with the breaking news. Tell us more about the specific information your committee is seeking from former White House communications director hope Hicks. Well, as I understand it. The committee is seeking information relative to what exactly took place in connection with the ultimate termination of Michael Flynn, and the violations of law that he clearly committed the committee would also like to know what exactly was Donald Trump's involvement in the false and misleading statement. That was issued from the White House involving hope Hicks and others in connection with that infamous Trump Tower meeting that took place in two thousand sixteen that would tell us something about whether there was collusion between the Trump campaign and Russian spies is a release the selling out democracy. We'd also like to know what information she has relative to the termination of James Komi, which appears to many to have involved an effort to obstruct Justice and the ongoing counterintelligence investigation that James Komi was leading at the time. You're a lot of questions for her. We'll see if she answers those questions this afternoon as you heard the president said he was fine with Robert Muller's Russia report being made public are you encouraged by the president's endorsing the release of the report all the president is sort of a hair today gone tomorrow type guy, so who knows whether this will be his position tomorrow. Let alone an hour from now what I am incur. Orage by the fact that the overwhelming majority of the American people, Democrats, Republicans and independence agree that upon the conclusion of Muller's investigation. The American people deserve to see this report that is the position that we as House Democrats have taken in the interest of transparency and a majority of Republicans have also taken that position in the house of representatives. That's the right thing to do. The taxpayers have paid for the Muller investigation. We all deserve to know. Whether there was a conspiracy between the Trump campaign, Russian spies and possibly involving WikiLeaks to sell out, democracy and offficially place. Donald Trump at sixteen hundred Pennsylvania Avenue, should the attorney general Bill bar take that public sentiment. The overwhelming majority of Americans. They wanna see this report. Should he take this public sentiment into consideration? As he weighs how much of the eventual report to make public absolute. Really he should take that public sentiment into account, particularly because it is so strongly held amongst the wide ideological spectrum of the American people, and this is a great issue of national importance to the extent that the attorney general decides not to release the report, which would be unfortunate. The American people have voted for transparency and giving Democrats control of the house of representatives and chairman shift chairman Nadler, and chairman Cummings have all made clear that if we need to subpoena that report we will. So that the American people can be presented with the information. Good, bad or indifferent. They should see the report wolf whether the report exonerates the president or implicates the president and the most of the American people agree with you CNN poll. Same CNN poll just out shows a significant decline in the presentative Americans who wanna see impeachment proceedings begin against the president that he should be removed. From office following impeachment. It's gone down. You can see from forty seven percents of timber forty-three percent, December thirty six percent now from your perspective. And I know you don't wanna see impeachment proceedings begin right now as the speaker Nancy Pelosi has also said why why do fewer Americans though, do you believe support impeachment? Off an interesting question, and I'll have to look deeply into those numbers. I do know that House Democrats are continuing to focus on for the people agenda, and we've made that clear from the very beginning that we were elected to try to lower the high cost of lifesaving prescription drugs. Lower healthcare costs in general, protect people with preexisting conditions, increase pay for everyday Americans, and the real infrastructure plan and also will clean up corruption and bring the moxie to life. That's where I focus is. And we believe that that's where the American people would like us to focus on kitchen table pocketbook issues at the same time. We'll do our constitutional responsibility. As of serving as a check and balance on out of control executive branch. We'll see what happens does it were you though that many of your fellow Democrats in the caucus. They're still advocating for impeachment despite declining public support despite what you say despite what Nancy Pelosi. The speaker says well, the overwhelming majority of the House Democratic caucus believes that we should. Continue to focus on making life benefit everyday Americans until we see what the Muller report has to show as well. As the conclusion of the southern district of New York. We'll see what happens at that point in time. I think what the speaker did was lay out a clear standard where the case should be compelling evidence must be overwhelming and public sentiments should be bipartisan in order to even consider going down the impeachment road, and we're a long way from that. All right. Congressman thanks so much for joining us. I came Jeffries of New York joining us appreciate it. Thanks. We'll up next the president attacks special counsel, Robert Muller. But he says he wants to see millers report and says the American public should get to see it as well. And the president of yours blistering criticism from top Democrats once again, attacking the late Senator John McCain. So what's behind this latest series of rants today? Hiring is challenging, but there's one place you can go or hiring is simple, fast and smart that place ZipRecruiter with their powerful matching technology. Ziprecruiter scans thousands of resumes to find people with the right experience and invite them to apply to your job. Ziprecruiter is so affective that eighty percent of employers who post on recruiter get a quality candidate through the site within the first day and right now listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free at this exclusive web address ZipRecruiter dot com slash situation. That's ZipRecruiter dot com slash as IT. You. Ziprecruiter this Martin way to hire. We're following multiple breaking stories, President Trump is heading to a fundraiser in Ohio this hour earlier told reporters, he doesn't mind if the public sees the special counsel Robert Muller's report, but then question why the report is being done in the first place. Let's ask our political and legal experts about what the president is saying today, Pamela, let's see the president said stance on Muller is this a major shift when the president United States says he has a problem releasing it to the American public Shepton changing his tune previously. He said it's up to the attorney general I defer to him now he saying put it out there. And but it reminds me of when the president said, look, I sit down with Robert Muller sitting this message out I have nothing to hide, but the report up there, I would sit down with Muller. We know that that never happened. And that privately the president really didn't want to. And so I think that that's what this is. I don't know how much we should really be reading into the president saying this from a practical standpoint this report could have grand jury in for. Mation classified information. You can't just put the whole report out depending on what Muller put in it. Now, the question is does this somehow put more pressure on Bill bar, the attorney general who is the one that would actually provide the report because the president is boss. See it struck me that the president was just kind of riffing and talking about the top of his head. I don't think what he said binds, the attorney general at all the attorney general is going to do this methodical way. He is going to let the White House counsel way in. There will be lots of pressure from within the administration to keep the disclosures to a minimum. Just because the president said something today, as we often point out doesn't mean he's going to say the same thing tomorrow, or you know, that's going to bind the administration at all. This is the bottom line right now. Absolutely. That's what we heard from congressman came Jeffries. You want to say in my reporting is that the White House lawyers are preparing to possibly assert executive privilege over some of the information. The report whatever bar wants to share. So that contradicts this idea. Put the full report salute our new poll, Rebecca the the poll shows that Robert Muller's approval rating for handling the Russian investigation has rebounded. You can see it was December was forty three percent. It's now gone up to forty eight percent. So a few takeaways from this poll, it's really interesting. First of all, this seems to be clear evidence that the president's campaign against Robert Mueller witch-hunt all capital letters is don't working. In fact, this is the highest approval that Moeller has had of handling this investigation since October of last year. So if anything his approval is standing strong in the face of these attacks, but I also want to compare the approval of molar to the approval of Trump in terms. Of this investigation specifically and how he's handled it his approval in the same polls only thirty two percent for his handling of the investigation versus fifty seven percent who disapproved so that's a net. Disapproval for Trump in handling this investigation and Annette approval for Robert Muller and handling this investigation. It shows public opinion is on Muller sign. That's a big deal. When this report actually comes out. There was an interesting line in this do. A statement that was filed in the US district court by Robert Muller today and a separate case asking for an extension the council responsible for preparing the response face, the press of other work and require additional time to consult within the government's what does that say to you? Because a lot of speculation that means we're not going to get the Muller report necessarily in the next day or two well, the line immediately got a lot of people talking in part because there are no significant deadlines in the Miller investigation that are imminent that are publicly known we've seen increasing signs that the investigation is coming to a close such as the departure of Miller's top agent. There are several top attorneys on the special counsel team who are also soon departing. But again, we don't actually know we've talked about time. And again when Muller is ultimately going to deliver his report to congress. Some interpreted that line though, is maybe being directly related to the preparing of that report, especially as we contend with some of these legal and constitutional questions. How the special counsel is going to handle the fact that this investigation involves a stating precedent president as well. As the fact that there is this debate over the extent to which some of the information in the report will be released to the public. We can conclude. I think with certainty that the Mahler report will be released tomorrow or won't be. I just you know. Hard more viewers in this in this statement that he issued he's there's an effort by the Washington Post among other news organizations to get information. Release a private information and they asked for an extension at least through April. I I don't know what that means. You know, we're all just reading between the lines how to use it again. All of our reporting indicates that it's going to happen soon with Robert Muller, delivering his confidential report to the attorney general. But of course, when you see something like this where they say, we have oppressive other work. It does make you wonder, but I think we should be cautioned not reading too much into that that could mean impressive. Either work compiling this report to be delivered to the attorney general everybody stick around. There's more news. We're following continue our coverage right after this. Tired of spending hundreds of dollars for prescription glasses. Our friends at Xeni optical, operate huge variety of high quality stylish frames state of the art optics starting at just six ninety five. You can get multiple frames with this great pricing for less than one pair. Elsewhere start building your eyewear wardrobe from the comfort of your own home, Xeni dot com with the latest trends in eyewear available in hundreds of frame styles and materials there isn't a better way to change it up for every season. Plus is any offers prescription sunglasses at incredible prices. Visit any today at Xeni dot com slash CNN. That's Z E N I dot com slash CNN. With our political and legal analysts Sabrina, the president took his attack against Senator John McCain to a new level today. Let me play some clips of what he said just today. What do you think of McCain? What do you think not my kind of guy? I've never liked them much hasn't been from me. Mccain didn't get the job done went down badly hurting, the Republican party badly hurting our nation. I gave them the kind of funeral that he wanted which has president. I had to approve I don't care about this. I didn't get thank you. That's okay. We sent him on the way. But I wasn't a fan of John McCain. Why is the president do it? I mean, it's one thing as he doesn't private conversations really goes out. But so publicly going after the late Senator enforces the extent to which the president holds eight Greig his willingness to continuously engage in attacks that are petty. He is being condemned by members of his own party. But part of why he does this because he gets away with it his attacks on Serna McCain date back to the twenty sixteen campaign when he said he preferred prisoners who were not captured, of course, invoking. The fact that Senator McCain was a prisoner of war. It didn't affect his pathway to the public and nomination in the time that he was president. He continued to attack Senator McCain for his vote against repealing Obama's healthcare law, and for the most part what you have are condemnations from Republicans who often don't even directly invoke the president's name. They just praise McCain for his service. And so as long as the press is not going to face actual consequences. He knows that. He. Can continue to engage in this kind of behavior because it's not really going to affect him. Personally. Rabuka Republican Senator Johnny Isakson of Georgia. Georgia says the president's repeated attacks McCain are deplorable cetera. Mitt Romney of Utah issued a very strong statement condemning with the president of sending about the late Senator. But by and large most Republicans in congress have been pretty silent. That's right. Well, they were they exception. Not the rule. The rule was Republicans came out and praise John McCain defended John McCain, but didn't condemn President Trump or what he said you actually saw today. More Democrats condemning the president for going after the late John McCain, then you saw Republicans stepping up to defend John McCain and condemning the president. But look the reason is simple. This is Donald Trump's Republican party. This is not John McCain's Republican party anymore. Party has moved on Donald Trump as we often discuss has a very high approval rating among Republicans, and so he just feel like he can say and do whatever he wants. Republicans are fearful of condemning I'm not a psychiatrist like George Conway is but the the the projection of his own draft dodger status onto the undisputable war. Heroism of McCain is just extraordinarily like out of the thing. He keeps talking about McCain. And you know, the one thing everybody knows about McCain is that he had this extraordinary war record and Trump has the opposite of that. And I think there's some psychological thing going on that that he hates the fact that McCain is such a hero. And he was such a weasel during Vietnam at the speed, she'd delivered military at a manufacturing attack manufacturing in Ohio. He spent several minutes railing against John McCain. It was so off and it didn't say it didn't get a thank you. What was that about? First of all John McCain was dead and not in a position to say. Thank you. But also like, so what are they supposed to do? I mean, anyway, I amidst all of this. He's also the president going on the offensive attacking George. Conway Kellyanne Conway's husband calling him a wack job. This feud is escalating by the hour. And it's not going anywhere. Good. I think we can all agree with that. I mean, just take a step back just how unprecedented. This is. You have the president of the United States going after the husband of one of his top aides. And then you have this husband, George Conway going after the president publicly on Twitter saying that he has mental mental health issues and personality disorders, it's really extrordinary. And then on top of that, you have Kellyanne Conway siding with the president over her own husband on all of this saying what I think she's told politico today, what did you expect the president to do? Someone's question is meant allow who's on a medical professional? What you expect to do just that there and take it? So it's really just remarkable to look at this back and forth. That's happening. And. It doesn't seem to be de-escalating anytime soon. The president's tweet today about George Conway, stole cold loser. All caps loser. And husband from hell. The president got nothing better to rail against Kellyanne Conway's husband amidst all of the democratic candidates, they're they're working fulltime right now. They're getting ready for the the Iowa caucuses getting ready for the primaries. What does a candidate democratic candidate right now need to do to stand out? Amidst growing growing field, that's really the million dollar question for so many of these candidates wolf because it is so competitive so crowded there's some like better work as we've seen who have the star power. Get a lot of attention. Someone like Bernie Sanders Joe Biden, if he indeed runs to are well-known, but for candidates with lower name ID, it's really tough challenge. And so you either have to have a very unique platform Jay Inslee from Washington running on climate change specifically or someone like people to judge from south bend. Seizing the moment. In recently, the CNN townhall, a really getting a lot of positive attention. And of course, tonight, we're going to have another town hall, but John Hickenlooper tiller alert our viewers if they don't know this programming note. Join us later tonight for CNN presidential town hall with twenty twenty candidate former Colorado governor John Hickenlooper down abashed moderates live from the C N N center in Atlanta tonight. Ten ten pm eastern only here on CNN coming up new reports reveal disturbing details about what happened of one of two Boeing airliners that crashed recently, including how I hero pilot save the plane only one day before it crashed and later the feud between President Trump the husband of one of his closest advisors gets uglier and more personal. Remember to create an ad like this one visit pure winning dot com slash CNN. Rigging. Just now. Senate Republicans have announced a hearing next week on the state of commercial aviation safety. This comes as we're learning. Very disturbing. New details about what happened aboard one of the two Boeing airliners that crashed recently both crashes killed everyone onboard. Let's get the latest from N's Tom foreman. Tell us more about these late developments wolf tonight. They're moving much more quickly toward these hearings simply because we're being hit with a torrent of stories that seem every day more astonishing. For nine. Terrifying. Minutes the cockpit. Recorder captures accrue, fighting to pull up a plane that is repeatedly diving toward the sea scouring the operations manual for any explanation, apparently unaware they are battling an onboard computer that is forcing those dives. This is what Reuters is reporting tonight from sources familiar with the lion air crash off Indonesia last fall. Reuters has the crew seemed oblivious to the fact the tail was automatically tilting. They didn't seem to know the trim was moving down. They thought only about airspeed and altitude in the final moments. Reuters says one pilot issued a short prayer before the crash killed all one hundred eighty nine people aboard Boeing and Indonesia authorities are not commenting but analysts say the training was insufficient. Well, it must have been just horrifying in the cockpit for these professionals. I mean, it's been sated. Well, it should have been a memory item. Well, clearly it wasn't. What's more Bloomberg reports that same lion? Air jet had the same problem one day before and received because an off duty pilot in the cockpit told the crew to cut power to that automatic system. Still the plane took off again, this is what I call the flight and watch it kind of attitude, but that should not have occurred here. This was replicated, and I can't understand why at least it wasn't test flown or brought out on the rampant tested. Again. It all raises troubling questions about the fatal Ethiopian jet crash, which thorny say looks a lot like the lion air disaster. Why did Boeing design that anti stole software to rely on only one sensor, why were pilots not giving more pointed warnings and more extensive training. And where was the Federal Aviation Administration? What happens in fact is at a miserable taken by Boeing after. I actually then well not to avoid next. Boeing says. It is fixing the problem soon will release a software update for the seven thirty seven max that will address concerns discovered in the aftermath of the lion air flight six ten accident. But lion air went down almost five months ago. Indefensible some analysts point out that these seven thirty seven max jets have taken off and landed safely. Tens of thousands of times since the lion air crash, but with orgies worldwide or saying that is simply not enough Boeing must now prove the planes are fully safe before any will be allowed to take passengers and fly again, that's not forget three hundred forty six people three hundred forty six people men women and children were killed in those two crashes involving that aircraft aren't thanks very much. Tom foreman coming up the athlete feud between President Trump and the husband of one of his closest advisors. I'm Biagio Messina, and I'm jokin seen. We are the producers behind the HSEN television documentary series unmasking killer. Join us as we explored the identification capture and arrest of Joseph James, the Angelo the alleged Golden State killer in a special ten part podcast series unmasking killer, all new episodes premiering Tuesday. February twelve subscribe today at apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. It's Conway versus Conway and Trump that's conservative lawyer, George Conway trades insults. With President Trump top white. House adviser Kellyanne Conway is signing with the president against her husband. Brian Todd has been looking into this forest. Brian. This is getting uglier it's getting uglier and more public by the day. Wolf tonight. The president is squarely in the middle of this feud between his high profile adviser and her husband and Trump seems to relish exploiting the tension in their marriage. For a man who values loyalty above all? It is the ultimate loyalty test for Donald Trump choosing him over a husband. He's wack job. There's no price about it. But I really don't know. I think he's doing a tremendous service to a wonderful wife. Tonight's Donald Trump has injected himself right into the middle of one of Washington's most public power couples. Trump's top adviser Kellyanne Conway and her husband, George a prominent conservative lawyer and Trump critic escalating a simmering spat into an open and bitter battle it all began this weekend. When George Conway responded to a Trump Twitter tirade by posting these pages from a psychological manual suggesting the president was suffering from north assistant personality disorder. Trump responded calling Conway a total loser up until then the Conway's had rarely allowed the public to get a glimpse into how their disagreements over President Trump had affected the dynamic in their marriage. But in the past twenty four hours it blew up George Conway telling the Washington Post, Tuesday, he sent his tweets questioning the president's mental health quote. So I can get it off my chest. Frankly, it's so I don't end up screaming at her about it even. Town where power couples come under a lot of scrutiny. There's no precedent for anything like this. And when you inject the president of the United States right in the middle of a power couple marriage. You know? It's off the charts. Trump responded today weeding, George Conway is a quote stone cold loser and husband from hell saying George was quote, very jealous of his wife success and angry that I with her help didn't give him the job. He so desperately wanted. The Washington Post reports that Kellyanne Conway herself had recently told people at a party that she and Trump think her husband is jealous of her. The crescendo has been building since Trump took office, George Conway, a staunch conservative who says he turned down a job in the administration started with vague tweets before eventually vis rating, the president accusing Trump of ceaseless shameless and witless prevarication then in November he delivered his most colorful broadside on the news podcast skulduggery. You know, it's like the administration is like a shit show. In dumpster, fire observers, say Kellyanne Conway a survivor in an administration, which doesn't have many has gotten where she is by voiding talking about her husband's views and by under. Standing one fundamental truth about Donald Trump. This is a man who measures everything with the metric that is about loyalty about devotion to Donald Trump tonight. Washington insiders say Kellyanne may have answered just where her loyalties lie suggesting to politico late today that her boss hitting back at her husband was fair game. Quote, you think Trump shouldn't respond when somebody non medical professional accuses him of having a mental disorder. You think he should just take that sitting down? Adding clear jab at her husband quote yesterday, George spent the day tweeting about the president. I spent my day doing to one hour briefings with press and intergovernmental affairs. People those who know Trump best say the president is setting up an impossible choice for his top advisory one. She will ultimately be forced to make he understands very much. How to hurt people? He knows how to hurt families. You know, think about Mike Cohen and what his family has. Jured because he stood up. And there's no threat that he won't make he'll threaten to dismiss you hill. Pillory you online hill call you names, or in the case of the Conway's he'll try and get in the middle of your marriage. Meanwhile, Michael de Antonio says he strongly believes the president has at least in private pressured Kellyanne Conway to try to make her husband's stop attacking him publicly analysts. They don't think George Conway is gonna stop his attacks. Even under pressure from his wife. One analyst says at this point George Conway might see himself as something of a hero doing the public bidding for all of those who oppose Donald Trump, especially those in the Republican party wolf, Brian Todd reporting, Brian thank you very much coming up. Breaking news, President Trump attacks, the special counsel, Robert Muller. But now says he wants to see Moller's report and wants the American public to see it as well. And our exclusive new CNN poll shows that a huge majority agrees and wants Muller's findings made. Public.
DNB: Agent Provocateurs, Conflicting Narratives, & Astroturfed Riots (6.1.20)
"Welcome to the Dr. Thirty minutes forty five for patrons jam packed with news of the day from a perspective of truth, liberty and justice. This is Monica parades. I'm Brad, basically. There's been so much going on. Since last time we talked this weekend was marked by escalating violence over the George Floyd killing. The riots basically emerged everywhere and buildings burned down. The National Guard has entered. Many cities Atlanta was literally on fire as you were telling me I have to say when I was looking at this stuff. On Friday and I saw them try to gin up some. Aggression in La, it really fizzled out. I feel strongly that this thing was absolutely astroturf. I think we mentioned that the guy is in the guy in black. WHO started the fire? I had speculated on Friday. Why did they want us to see that? He didn't start the fire? He just broke the windows. Other people started the fire. Okay, so, but we saw that we saw conspiracy theories that was not a hidden video that escaped the clutches of the sensors. We were given that and there are so a lot of things that come out of this conspiracy. Theories were meant to understand the cross. Two things have come out of that specific thing one is. that. Trump's talking about how? People have crossed state lines to engage in violence, and that's a federal crime which justifies a federal response. He they also are using these kind of. Hidden videos or stories or claims to say that it's Antifa or organized group. He is threatening to call Antifa a terrorist organization. I would caution people against embracing that because Missouri called Ron Paul supporters, terrorists and San Francisco called. The NRA terrorists got to watch it. Of course, there are always going to demonize an obvious demon, but they extend these these measures beyond that, so there's a lot going on. It seems to me a very orchestrated event. This is lockdown 2.0 and martial law that we anticipated but ahead of schedule and way worse than I thought. It was pretty bad over the weekend. It was definitely ASTROTURF. There was one of the most obviously astroturf things that you've ever seen in your life every protest just about you hear stories from the mayors of the city about how the arrest were people that were all from out of town, and how there were twenty cars, driving around bringing teenagers and young people city to city to destroy like a targeted attack, and it shows social media's power, because these things were organized through twitter and facebook largely. That, there were also counter arguments that the arrest records show that their local, so that's a dialectic because trump wants to use cross-border thing for federalizing I. Think you're right, but I was looking I. Didn't I didn't get a chance to look for it but I was waiting for social media to be the thing that foments this so that it could be cracked down upon hand in hand with what trump is doing with twitter, the fairness doctrine on the right. It also goes with the lockdown scenario. Eventually one that they use. Protests. anti-government protests to crack down on social, media. Yeah I saw the Lennox riots being planned on twitter mid last week. This stuff was all planned on i. mean some of it was offline I'm sure but to get masses of people. To mobilize to specific parts that many people that quickly it was fueled facilitated by social media. Even read a few articles that I found about how social media is used in that way, so while we're suspending twitter accounts for comments and stuff. You Know Sam's account. Trump's getting his tweets flag now. These platforms are being used to facilitate violence in real life in real life violence. So, are you saying that it looks? It looks astroturf grassroots the on Facebook, or is it indivisible because I went to individuals website and they're not saying to go out and protest. They're saying. Call Your senator, so are you saying, do you? Are you seeing? Just. Because I think people are really going out and doing I think that it is taking far. Think real a lot of times. I think there were all agents provocateur. They've really added the people to want to go out and do this. Probably because I disagree with up. Oh! You don't think any almost. Everyone almost everyone was part of an ASTROTURF group A. Resistance type grew area I think there were some natural protesters. I'm not saying they're not, but I think if you subtract all of these groups that were put in these specific locations I watched this footage. I'll watch the CNN the clearly stage, CNN, where they had the camera from inside of CNN. And then you see the police officers lined up on the inside, and then there's just mobs of people on the outside and bizarre thing about is every single person has a camera. It's like a hundred cameras filming everything in filming each other. This was clearly staged and Organiz to me and put into this space. Yes, there was natural ones out there, but remove all those those astroturf protesters. fizzles out, and we hardly even hear about really. Wow, 'cause normally I'm on the other side of that from you that you're the only says. Oh, they've the people got triggered. Triggered and it spreads because. What they're trying to do. Definitely, yeah, no, I you, but few people told me that they knew folks were out there, joining the the mayhem, but that's just purely anecdotal and like you said it could just be a few, but I thought of you because this is clearly a propaganda of the deed as as exactly what it is propaganda, but it's just it's not just blasting from your screens. A lot is blasting from screens, but it looks and feels three dimensional, and it has if you just take a step back from it for a second. Take out some of the stuff I want to get into about where it's going for policing and the agenda items that specifically the racial stuff and the police stuff have. If you take a step back, it's it's serving the exact same purpose as the covert thing in the financial world, so I'm still hundred percent convinced that the primary goal of the Corona Virus Plan DEMOC which I hate to use that word because the dumb documentary ticket over, but. That That the pandemic was. Carried out fostered whatever propagandized. So that the the financial collapse that was results of two thousand eight can-kicking. Would not. It would look like it wasn't the fault of the people whose fault it was, so they want more bail out. They want the ten trillion dollars. They don't want to own that. It was their bad policies. They're just maintaining hierarchy for their friends for themselves paradigm that really could just go away. And then I see, and that was what the plan was for, but then I see this and I was trying to puzzle through why they keep talking about brand names and target target said they're closing down. Almost two hundred stores and I thought well. They closed down the economy for Covid, and then they said Oh the economy's busted. We've got a ballot out now. Target is closing down its own stores because riots and they're going to say Oh, our business was fine until it's. We need a ballot and I think Tara. Somebody tweeted at me. Target is heavily indebted and target someone who took a stand against North Carolina. In favor of the transgender bathrooms and I just remember thinking are target shoppers. Do you want to alienate some of your shoppers? Why take that political stand? Why weights that? and. This is why I hate stakeholder interests why I hate government bailouts, because now target will is a political tool, was a political tool and will be saved and the other guys. The little guys competitor is not that there are too many left in. That realm will not get the ballot, but they get to blame the riots all over, and this is why it had to spread to other countries because they need the bailout, too. So this is this is face to I. think that the covert thing was kind of losing steam, and now they've got locked down two point zero. It's even worse than the first one. Thing will come back to, but yes, it is is completely just been forgotten. How almost completely wall coverage nothing, but Cova then all of a sudden this happens in. Nobody's talking about condemning people for not social distancing anymore. Yes, you pointed that out and I agree with you. The covert thing is going to come back. Absolutely, they have their own agenda items, but. This gave it the little boost. It needed in the Western world of the Northern Hemisphere because they did move south as expected, but they the this is one thing that I just. There's really no good explanation for it. If this was a grassroots thing so I saw the little crappy one. fizzle out on when I was looking at what was happening in L.. A. Because, there's only a few places in the beginning and. and. I it was small, and people were not distancing. They were not wearing masks. I remember the footage of the drager all alone on a beach and cops coming from. From the land to get to this jogger to tackle him and drag him because he wasn't wearing a mask I, mean he? You couldn't even see anyone from the aerial view for. Many many many many feet. They were literally nipping people in the bud for the tiny breath of fresh air. They took. How could this thing have escalated to the point where it's? Fires everywhere and I just don't believe in spontaneity anymore. Without actual deprivation because of how this lockdown where people should have been out on the streets, but they were paid off that money still coming. I also think that this is a lesson to anyone who might stand in the way of the permanent. You Bi the permanent universal basic income I saw many people probably well-meaning say this is nothing compared to what will happen if. If we take those people six hundred bucks a week away so so now you have this threat. Yeah, you mentioned overseas protests that to me is just more evidence that this is provocateur. Because you have these groups. He's resistance groups, and you have a branch set up in London. You send them to the US embassy. You have it set up wherever you to. The America is one of the least racist countries there is so. Yeah and for all these other countries to be acting like they're just shocked and appalled. especially dictators countries with dictators. You'd say it's much. I was reading the. Right I was reading the Tim. Cook Letter. Did you see that Apple Guy wrote a letter and he was talking about all the injustices and. Disparity and treatments and outcomes are were however he phrased it and I'm thinking about it. I'm thinking yes, there. There is a systemic problem, but it is I think it's it's these policies. It's affirmative action. It's crappy schools. Public schools is the common core. It's pushing people through. It's not having any real standards that they're giving people preference because of their color, or whether they're gonNA. Get a government, job or welfare, check or whatever so all the things that really keep people from. From self actualized. Are targeted, but their policy targeted at minority communities, but their policies. The policies I think are having this bad effect, but I had to, I had to just read one quote from the Tim Cook thing if you wouldn't mind one-sentence Yoga. A says to our colleagues in the black community. We see you you matter your lives. Matter and you are valued here at Apple, so I just thought to myself. As condescending to me, yeah, and I wonder what yes, like. It's toilet like a foreign emissary destroying welcome in. person to speak English, or whatever so but I was like okay, so how how? How big is the? How big a percentage of apple employees are black so I saw in wired magazine. I never heard this even as being a controversy, but I just googled it and twenty, one thousand nine wired magazine wrote an article that said a for all the. bla-bla-bla, six percent of their tech workforce's black and thirteen percent of the general population black so. To our colleagues, you're valued here at Apple. Whereas if that's how he thinks if he thinks you have to think in collective terms. If you think you have to think in terms of groups of people by color, then let him then let him do it. Wouldn't hold my breath for that. I want to go back to what you're saying about. Target that some thoughts on that as well that to me is a symbol taking down now they might be doing what you're saying is well. Taking advantage of this whole thing is provocateur at every single one of these? This was a mate for camera made for Internet and TV riot nationwide. This was designed. Designed to be recorded and broadcast I bet going out on the streets. It is not going to seem as crazy. It will always crazy if things are on fire, but they were convincing people in areas where they could capture it on film well lit at the C. N. N. Center which CNN I'm sure loved that they act like they were. The CNN loves playing the victim they. Love Plan. A, why would they attack? See at Andt? People don't like CNN. Hates CNN. Also hates CNN all of these groups on all sides. You just don't like CNN, but CNN knows that, and that benefits them because it causes people to watch them more, and it gets attention to them the whole the whole freaking protests was center with a CNN sign right in the middle of it in Atlanta back to target target. They kept focusing on target and a couple of other big box stores and places like Phipps Plaza and Lenox. Talk to the people who are doing it and they're making comments about who cares. They're part of the corporate capitalist. There we don't need them. It doesn't matter debt. Take them down. So that was symbolic of down with. Capitalism the proletariat tearing down capitalism and trying to start with revolution. This is a communist symbol. In my opinion, the way it was broadcast and the commentary we got from the people who were involved. In that fits the ANTIFA narrative, and the shutdown, and t like trump was saying, and we'll continue talking about this right after this word from our sponsor. 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You can get an extra ten percents off. Use the coupon code propaganda when you put in your order and Bill Bill, O. B. From neighbors has asked me if I would give a shoutout to everyone who has ordered from them to say, thank you and that they are grateful to the community that they've been. Been introduced to through the show and to call or email them. If you have any questions, he also wanted me to let y'all know they are working hard to produce a variety of new inventory that will be on sale soon. Products, a he hopes will empower people sense of independence or freedom from the grid as I might put. He really just wants to let you guys know how appreciative he is for all the sport. He's gotten since we started talking about them on the show, so thank you guys for that. Can I also give a shoutout to the long-awaited documentary monopoly on violence. I'm proud to say it was an early supporter of that. It's peak says and company it just I was just watching it on Youtube. Highly recommend, and maybe give them support. Shout out, share it. That would be cool our friend. Jj Boogie did the score. So that's GonNa be awesome, so if you like our our score, you'll like they're definitely so go ahead. So, what were you saying? What was I saying, but we were talking about target is. Of capitalism versus communism, there's a theme throughout that within Thika with I feel these big box stores, being targeted and getting folks of the media attention and the way the people that were writing were commenting on it, and then we have China's still trump's tweet and stuff about China making comments about China all the time. It's really escalating their mocking us about the way we're handling the protests. There's a lot going on right now. It's all provocateur bricks. Being sat near courthouses across the country. I watched videos of that I. It okay because I didn't verify and other people were saying it wasn't and there's a lot of that back and forth like no no I'll watch the videos of it. Construction, seen maybe the person who was filming it. He says he lives Aaron and he'd ever seen that there before. Have you saw it? What I saw a lot of. Online and off couple things online. This was an interesting. This was the new hybrid type of protesting writing. Not saying they're the same. In fact, the protesters, a genuine protesters who were coming out to make a statement about what happened with George Floyd. They got drowned out. They got drowned out. They got screwed over these other people who got all the attention to the writing the terrible things tearing this country apart. Really if this continues but. Just lost me freaking train of thought I had something to protesters getting out. Genuine protesters are online, offline, hybrid, protest and riots, so we had people can come out online. You organize it online. We'll tell you where to go. We'll tell you what to do. Here's your sign. Here's your bottle of too much information, but they're throwing. Bottles suffer people. I heard one reporter. Call it gatorade yellow. GATORADE. It's not yellow gatorade. And that's all people smacking windows and breaking them with what looked like tube socks with quarters. These were techniques that were all straight out of these simple sabotage, manual and straight OUTTA. These violence manuals it. ANTIFA and others have on their websites, but if you can't go and person do it, then you can attack people who descend online, and we saw an intolerance, online and offline. Really I've never seen before we. We knew that people are intolerant when they're worked up in this emotional state, but there was somebody that I know who create a post on facebook, and he's actually taken it down now. Because so much horrible things that people said to him in response where he was commenting on the criminal complaint that was filed against Derek Chauvel, the police officer seen with his knee on George voice neck in the video. Citing the preliminary findings by the medical examiner, the complaint says that the autopsy revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation. It went on to say that floyd under underlying health conditions, including coronary artery, disease and hypertensive heart, disease and visit concluded by saying that the combined effects of Mr Floyd being restrained by the police has underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his. His system likely contributed to his death, basically a bunch of information that's going to muddy the waters. Just like we talked about this going to set this thing up. People are demanding first degree murder charges. That standard will not be met. If they demand first degree murder charges and try to get it will fail. He will get off and there will be chaos. Did we see the body, Cam. Cam that Don Lemon said CNN was reviewing yet I haven't seen anybody I. Don't think so. No, I. Don't think we've seen that. Just Don lemon gets access to that, so this guy I know he goes on, and he posey asked a few questions. What will the cost be responsible for if this happens? They said this a medical examiner. So will they be held responsible? How does this change things? Things he's simply questioned. What will happen the same questions? Legal questions will be asked when this is argued and he got smeared as a racist. He has smeared as a horrible person. He got attacked by over one hundred comments thread by dozens of people were going after him because he dared to question that this might not, they might not be fully responsible according to the court and some Iowa's. Far! was he out there on facebook making those comments? Do you think I think that he's a curious guy? He's type of guy that question I mean. You're soliciting other people. I think that he probably generally wanted. This is I. Don't think he was. This is not a guy. He was trying to my experience I would because I have so much experience. I would never do that without expecting to be completely free. Bardy, but he was just thought it was interesting because he was. Yes, that's how I would characterize. I knew when I saw that that. was going to get I. Don't know that he knew that I don't think that he did. One of my other friends. Who is a liberal? who was Bernie supporter. But he was always been open, minded and a great person to talk about politics with. Him because he's respectful, he's never been over the top. He's never been rude and he listens arguments, and it affects them, so he. He's a great person who's a type. He's kind of prototype of what you want. When you're discussing politics, and so everyone is attacking the original poster for asking these questions, and this other Guy Bernie supporter. He leaves the comment defending. Defending the original poster and he pointed out in his defense that the guy, the guy who originally made the post was not defending the cops or anything like that that he was just asking questions. Legitimate questions that are going to be asked to. That's a basic overview of what his first comment said. And then this digital mob turned their attention to him. They turned their attention to this guy. This guy who was Bernie Spitzer or is a liberal. It was simply asking questions. Say Hey, back off this guy. He's not defending him. You guys are accusing him being the worst person in the world. They turned their attention to him. He had given all of these people performance opportunities that they otherwise would have not had yet in an instance. They mob mentality ganged up on him, said the same things that they're hearing repeated. Do you think that all the protests and stuff that there's just nobody out there? People are just strictly cordoned off I. Don't think there's nobody out there I. Think it's Qu- do things a lot of his coordinator. I think there are definitely people out there. That believed in the protests. I think they mostly got drowned out I don't. Don't think they are who we saw in the cameras i. think that what we saw in the cameras in the majority of the people were brought in. I think the other people because it's a lot easier to get people to do something from home that it is to get them to come out unless you're paying them or giving them some of their incentive I think the majority of the people that were naturally pissed off are upset were repeating what they said home and attacking people in this online. They weren't getting off the couch. That's what I think. Some of them. I've got a few kind of. Hits I want to get to. One is this is the future by the way I. If we're not careful that we talk about social media. This is a weapon. This is social media as a weapon, not a tweet that SAM. Tripoli put out or tweet trump put out using social media organized attacking people online and I mean attempting to ruin their reputation of good people that is, that's a weapon. Also yeah, I can I think that it's been clear for awhile that they're. They're moving the public square to the highly curated. Social Media Sphere. They insist that these are private platforms so that they do have the right to censor, and then with what with what trump is doing. It makes it even clearer that government action is creating these mega gop. Where they are actually now have a fiduciary duty to censor anything that they find to be offensive or whatever they can use their own judgement, and it's now coming out what I was talking about last week that the executive order will keep any startup from being able to emerge I. mean this is a direct attack on Gab and bitchy and what they're gonNA do is I. They coordinate off. So that, you kind of vent this relief in the simulation, which is the virtual world? It's just the simulation. You're not GONNA get anywhere. It doesn't count because it's so called private, and then they've actually eliminated the first amendment. We can't go out on. That's what is really suspicious about these protests that we're not allowed to protest the lockdown. A lot of people are dying because of the lockdown. Real people everybody cross the board every, and even they said people of color are even worse affected. There certainly were affected by the economic shutdown and the dependency. That's going to rush that too so. It's clearly a I mean the plan of of what they've been wanting to use social media for. All those people in that chain attacking him by the way we're white people. None of them were black. It was just like when you see the videos of people. A white woman spray painting black lives matter on the side of a starbucks. There was a video of a black woman going up to her. Saying don't do that. We didn't ask you to do that. Why did you do that? They're going to think that we did that. Please don't do that. And she turned round and well. Another black person told me I saw a lot of that going on white people doing things as though they're representing all black people and making. Person told her to do. That's what she said. Yes, maybe there are agents provocateur out there I'm sure. There's a lot of conflicting narratives with proves videos that are, it's so obvious. That's what's weird about is how the stack of bricks narrative? Yeah, yes. That's what I said last week. I said. Why did they show us this guy with the black umbrella? Did they show us that that is not what they showed us after Parkland. They showed it to us for a reason other video of him. was another video of that guy the date? The Guy who took it says he took it the day before that happened. I can't verify that that's what he says, but the video is of him, and he's holding umbrella in front of his face, so people can't see his face wise walking, but he's walking next to the guy in the pink shirt. Who looked like he was trying to stop him in the video that had the pizza s so they were walking together and if it's true that it was the day before. Dry Run. What are they doing like what's going on? Yeah! Yeah, it's weird. Somebody from a distance, he said I noticed this when I was looking back in my footage. Here's the. It's all just a big PSI ops crazy. It's Asya within a sigh up within ASYA. I mean literally is because it's got the whatever really happened with George, Floyd like you're kind of ground zero, Siodmak show. His wife is among. An. It's a it's an Asian kind of subculture like the basket to Spanish. The Hmong aware they from are they from Vietnam I can't remember, but there's pockets of these communities, so he's got a very ethnic wife. The show Van guy he's had previous. Which I knew would come up like just time. Limited search showed me these articles, and as soon as I started tweeting and people like Oh. Yeah like this. So there's that whole on the ground side. We haven't seen the body CAM footage yet. And then you have on top of that. You have the protests the riots. You have people saying that it's. So so the riots themselves are like the next level of the cy up, and then on top of that. Is this idea that they're anarchists? They're not. They're not us. Their ages provocateur or they're misrepresenting what the process really about, and that's kind of the third. Cya when there. There's probably more but the reactions. Are Significant I think that. One thing seemed clear to me as they've been trying. Do you want to finish that and then I'll get some stuff after he read. Is that yeah, okay, so I didn't want to change subjects if if you wanted to comment on that, because it really is like layer upon layer, and I think each layer serves a purpose so the biggest thing though the anarchist antifa thing. A can. It. On the one hand you, obviously, it's going to distance black lives matters from actual rioting so that they can preserve that entity that they worked so hard to build up, but it gives trump this excuse to go in. Because it's a terrorist organization, he's GonNa try to label it that and they cross state lines, so that actually legally justifies federal action, and I said I think they're gonNA. Want to nationalize, please or or start a department of Education like entity at the top called the Department of law enforcement, which, although it doesn't directly control them it model somebody I have. A Lotta stuff that Obama said. That kind of leads to that I'll get to after the break, but. The, the National Security Adviser O'Brien said on Fox. We are not yet federalizing the national. Guard, but we have a lot of military assets. We can deploy if need be, but to say yet or at this time is a very pregnant thing to say and congressman. It's so funny like the counterpoint was from this congressman. Walters of real military guy saying you have to have the National Guard. Be Local you. Have people care about the community? Community, who can make that argument to the people that they're cracking down on who have some accountability? Who have the right to arrest because if it's a national thing, then Posse Comitatus I. Guess is what you're talking about. Don't have the right to arrest. He said, but what they need to be doing is really cracking down. They really needs to be cracking heads, or whatever so, and that's another thing that trump is saying. He's saying hey, man. I'll give you your chance to crack down. Just like you said. I'll give chance to open up the churches. I'll give you a chance to voluntarily. Comply with what I'm you to do, but if you don't do it, I am going to use my federal authority to come down on you and I think what Obama's Obama's comments also kind of parallel what I saw in trump's executive order about how they get the locals to do what they want at the top without running afoul of the constitution to the extent. They can't just flagrantly run afoul of I. Don't Know Yeah. That's interesting that this is similar weather. ANTIFA works. Works as well as indivisible and other groups, they force local branches to lock in and to be accepted after a vetting process, and then they tell people it's just a loosely held together organization when it's not loosely held together. It's controlled and there's a vetting process. It is interesting with the ANTIFA stuff for a lot of reasons, but it folds in with China. They're the communist representative over there. They preach communism. China's communism goes hand in hand banning ANTIFA. Maybe ANTIFA members. They don't like China I. Don't know, but the themes. The symbols of it are all pointing to this conflict with China that we keep hearing about. You guys can find your drive time these last every weekday afternoons, four dot, com or your favorite podcast platform with propaganda report podcast feed. You want access extra content that we drop every day that we do a drive time newsflash and go to Patriot dot com slash propaganda report and become a patron. We will talk to you guys in the Patriot fifty.
Chapter 3: A Picture & A Search Warrant
"Simplisafe home security is getting commercial grade enterprise level security but for your own home think about the security fortune five hundred companies as us. They need to know police will be on scene immediately. This is exactly the kind of security you get with simplisafe. If there's a break in the US real video evidence to give police eyewitness accounts of the crime go to simplisafe dot com slash d t h today for a sixty day risk free trial and free shipping. If you want to see the people in places we're talking about in the story learn more about the investigation including how to submit tips or learn more about the town of Delphi. visit our website down the hill. PODCAST DOT COM. You said the last time we spoke to you that for you the woods will never be the same. I still feel that way even when I'm at home in my own woods yeah I think a lot of people feel that way. There's been a lot oughta violation here from the freedom and sanctity of a real place to the perception of safety and security. You won't bet most parents in this area. We can drop their kids off anymore for Shane. Lucia it's a beautiful area right now. This the whole community is really spectacular. Place retirement. Come through this you know and this is a very trail us. This is very this is a very trail and that was hard to get past. It's hard to get beyond that. You know Bush's trees talk if they if these trees could talk or stone or whatever it might be because they know exactly. Who did this everything we know about? What happened to Abby Williamson Libby? Chairman in those woods is a series of disconnected moments the in between each moments a blank space over the past three years State Police Superintendent Doug Carter like all of us has been trying to fill in those spaces. That's where the answers and now we're about to see some of those moments for the first time mm-hmm police are also examining this snapchat photo. It was taken just before both girls disappeared the announcement that the girls have been found not to a good end. We are investigating this as a trying. Seen we suspect foul play law enforcement is saying that one of the girls actually took video on her iphone. They say it was right before she was murdered. Two we have thirty. We have a still photograph. We have sound. This person could be half the white males and Carroll County to the killer who may be in this room. We likely have interviewed you. We know that this is about power not here and you want to know what we know in one day you will this. This is down the hill the Delphi murders and we're back accurate the CNN center in Atlanta in our production room. I'm Barbara McDonnell and I'm Andrew. Aydin we WANNA thank you for coming along on this journey with us and and we're not trying to solve this case what we wanna do is make sense of it and part of that is understanding. What do we know right now? What we now is that two girls Abigail Williams and liberty German thirteen or fourteen years old had been murdered? We know that they were on a bridge moments before disappearing hiring and that their bodies were found some distance away along a creek and it's been described as a particularly gruesome crime scene and that triggered a massive response from law enforcement from the gecko including the FBI and coupled with. That is the things that we don't know which is pretty hefty amount of that at this point the first thing being how are these. Two girls killed the senior gruesome. What was it that triggered such a massive law enforcement response? I I mean we're talking about multiple jurisdictions multiple agencies state federal local everything and then. Finally we don't know the level of fear. This community humidity should have was the serial killer that will strike again. Was this a one off. Isolated incident isolated it crime. We don't know the level of concern that local should have all of that kind of funneled into the three big questions. We have. which are who did this? What the hell happened out there? And how hasn't this been solved and as we get back into our story. Law Enforcement Horseman is beginning to process the first bits of evidence and they are still at the crime scene. They are also beginning to fan out all all over the area to talk to people and to begin figuring out what happened like you said this is the first time law enforcement is able to really wrap their hands around and tangible evidence stuff things that will give them some insight on what in the world happened Art One to seven PM. I've noticed more and more the people who are walking the trails. You know. They're not walking alone. They're looking over their shoulders there. There you know that that innocence was taken from US Sir You should know the day. Okay after is an important benchmark in this case. It's where for the first time we see actual evidence. There are two snapchat photo circulating articulating. One of them shows Abbey on the bridge shortly before she went missing and before we get to the photos. There are a couple of things about the MON on hybrids. So you need to know. It's more than a century old and it stretches more than eight hundred feet long and Deer Creek is seventy feet below. It hasn't been used by train since the nineteen eighties. So the railroad ties are in pretty rough shape. There are large gaps in between. It's a tough walk and I can tell you from experience. It is not doc for those with a fear of heights in the snapchat picture of Abbey from February thirteenth. She's looking down as anyone who walks this bridge does and should in her hands appear to be in her pockets. She's wearing blue jeans. A Red t shirt with a gray hoodie and sneakers her hair is in a messy bun. She's already already crossed the portion of the bridge going over the creek and the photo appears to have been taken from one of the small platforms that extend from the side of the bridge. wjr Here's Erica Gibson. Again Abbey was Happy you can't really see it like she's trying to get like across the bridge in era little terrified looking down now. She's like you can tell that they would have gone there and stuff unless they wanted to. I don't know if he's ever been on the bridge before But it could have been abused first time. She gets a little scared sometimes so when she's well she probably wouldn't have walked across the bridge so at that point. She was probably scared but I I mean. She was probably excited after she got off herself. I'm guessing if she's never been on it and they were having fun. Maybe was taking photos like I said and Avenue is being a little model. The second snapchat photo is a black and white picture of just the bridge disappearing into the woods. There's no one in front one of her and we don't know what's happening behind her. Which of these two photos was taken? I we don't know that either but we do know the the timing here is significant. Now explain for me. I don't use snapchat. So when Libby took these two pictures she uploaded them which meant that all of her friends or whatever? Her privacy setting was all those people could see it. Yes everyone her privacy settings depending but then once they see it it's supposed to disappear. Is that right. I've twenty four hours. Okay unless you screen shot it unless you screen chart yes and then you can keep it on your device. Okay and does it automatically have the time stamp when libby out does it automatically to snapchat that if the date and time. It doesn't but If I'm thinking right now I screen shotted it when it said three hours and then I looked at the time I screen shot at. It was like I don't want to get this wrong but I forget what time but it was like eighty the math on that until when I gave my phone. They're like okay so you took the photo at this time and it said this many hours ago so my time say instead like to ten when I think it was like two seven so like they're just trying to see wherever he took it to try to get proximate time that it was posted. We talk about imagery in this case and it's important to the investigation. These two snapchat photos are the first clues that help establish a timeline and investigators need to get their hands on them. The FBI came to our school super nice people like I mean. They came a few times. The office people knew them really. Nice people I'd never met anybody the F. B. I. N.. From my experience with them they good people he called us and he was like listen. I got your name from either last student that you you may have the screen shy or that. You may be able to help us. He's a you don't have to say anything. You can walk out of here right now. But that wasn't what I'm here for. I'm not here to not give them what I know. The FBI is continuing to interview. Students and authorities authorities are getting ready to talk to the media. It's the first press conference since yesterday's announcement that the bodies were found So we're back here at C. N. N. Center and everyone in Delphi wants to see and hear what law enforcement is GonNa say. You know as we mentioned before messing strategies important especially this period the case the town is looking for answers. They're looking for information. And so this is the news conference the first one where they're going to speak with some definitive information. Let's take this thing bit by bit. Here's Sergeant Kim Riley highly basically we have identified the bodies of the two females. That were found out yesterday. Or yes yesterday The bodies bodies are of have been positive of dinovite as Abigail Jay Williams thirteen of the Delphi area and Liberty Rose Lynn German fourteen of the the fire. The two girls were reported missing on Monday February thirteenth. The bodies were discovered about twelve fifteen on the fourteenth in the woods. Just east the town here by volunteers that helped in the search the children after they were reported missing to the Carroll County Sheriff's Department family has been notified. This is considered a double homicide an investigation. We're asking for anyone to come forward. Who has information that were either on the Delphi? His Trachea there on Monday especially there were near the Monin high bridge that they might have been seen seeing somebody out there. They may have taken pictures. Somebody might be in that photograph if they were out there doing that kind of stuff. We need that information. We would love to have pictures of that more to just clarify. What what we got going on out there so so? They know the bridges significant at this point. And they're asking for anybody who is out there and we've heard that there were people out there. It was a nice day. There were people out walking and they're asking for all those people to come forward and tell them what they know. Is there anybody else in the community. I'm sorry what was there anybody else in the community. I'll let you answer that. At this time. We do not believe so sir. Does that mean you have a person of interest in custody or we do not sir. Okay this is a little bizarre. You have two girls found dead in the woods and a murderer who is on the loose and understandably understandably so the first question from the media is should people be afraid and the sheriff's response is at this time. No Sir. It's it's. It's a kind of a puzzling response. Part of it I think is not wanting to alarm your community. I mean you don't want to say yes. Everybody should parent pat but at the same time by saying not at this time it is sort of A. What do we do with that? It's a little bit of damned if you do damned if you don't if you think about it it's a tough message to here. I wonder if maybe that might be said differently today if they had a chance to do it over but it is a fine line. Can you tell us the cause. The manner of death. That'd be autopsy. No we cannot do that at this time because of the investigation is still still in its baby step so to speak and we don't want to put that information out yet. Can you describe for us. The the scope of the investigation the resources to people what's going on with Carol. County Sheriff's department is lead investigation They've also they've asked us to help the Delphi. Police Department is assisting We have the FBI what's called RT team. Which is the evidence collection team that it is here have and they're also providing other resources? At this time we have not put all together. You know we've mentioned this a bit previously see but now we know from this news conference that the F. B. I.. is involved and Sergeant Kim Riley says in that news conference it's the evidence response team and and other resources right so obviously leads to the question is what are those other resources. What's the scope of the FBI's involvement because they don't get involved in every murderer right? This is also where I think it sort of begins that cups in this kind of get a reputation for being tight tight-lipped. They're not revealing a lot of information they can't at this point and that's something that's going to be sort of a theme throughout this investigation and so we got a lot of new information out of that news conference but as we're about to find out they are not quite done for the day Hey everyone it's Dan simply safe home. Security is the highest level of security. You can have with. 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Go Now Ambi sure you go to simplisafe dot com slash D T H so so that they know we sent you that simplisafe dot com slash d t h Part to a blurry picture and Barron Woods well and I think you know as more of the story came out and then you know the kind of learned where the picture came from. I don't think you you would find a classmate to say a bad word about abby our liberty they they were just great kids Liberty just one of the world to be kind and abby wanted everyone in the world to have things kappa gift at Christmas. We are following breaking news. Tonight out of Indiana. Someone has murdered two girls one just thirteen years old the other fourteen and in their search for information they are trying to locate anyone who was in the wooded area at the time time including a male subject seen on these photograph. They were just released minutes ago by the Indiana State Police. They say they would like to Ask this person what he might have seen. That's Gene Cassara. She's anchoring on H. L. N.. That night talking through what happened that day with her guests when and the photos are released the two photos in question are blurry they show a man walking on that same bridge around the same time as the girls. The Indiana State police said the photos quote appeared to depict a white male wearing blue jeans. A blue coat slash jacket and a Hoodie. Those are the broad strokes of the person in these photos beyond that you see a man with his hands in his pockets walking on the bridge looking down. He's framed by the kind of woods you see in winter bare branches dead trees. That was just one of the many things to talk doc about that night Christine Grillo. There was a press conference today and this is a small community. They're not used to this. They have called in the FBI to help with recovery. They are still processing the crime scene as we speak tonight. They haven't said if they've recovered the cell phones. How important is that? I think the cell phones are going to be very important. It's not too long before we learned. That is an understatement. As you see the snapchat photo that you put up there is a very telling photo it gives probably the last the person perhaps that saw them alive. The cell phones are going to give a lot of information there. Also not releasing certain information. They're probably taking this investigation very slowly and very he carefully. They're not releasing how girls died. Perhaps because they want to investigate further before saying something before tipping someone off so the cell phones are going to be very very important the information and the communication that might have been picked up on those cell phones right before their death. Christine Grillo is sitting in a New York. TV Studio Oh and she couldn't know this yet but she was absolutely right about that immediately after this picture was released everyone not involved in the investigation including TV. Legal analysts were asking the same questions and are starting to draw some conclusions. Listen at this picture again. That was just released. East of someone they say was walking along the trail. The Delphi trail. This is the modern high bridge possibly was a known own place first of all. I am shocked that there was a camera. I want to know where I wanNA know where that picture came from. And the thing about it that you were talking about genius this is broad daylight. Hi this is two o'clock in the afternoon and it's a small town in a small community and the benefits of living in the small town of the small community is someone there has yeah or if the person is not from there. We'll be able to see. Did anyone see him. Did you see some suspicious whether any cars are there cameras in the parking lot of the trail your hope if it's a state or government property that they have some semblance of surveillance that tracks who comes in and who goes out and I got to piece the puzzle together Christine. The bodies of these two young girls girls were not found actually on the trail. They were found off the trail actually on private property but close to a shoreline so kors couldn't get anywhere near where those bodies were found. So it could be that you're doing that so you're hoping no one does find them that there's more decomposition to the bodies less evidence found and I don't know what these murderers are thinking Christine when you when you look at the crime scene and they are continuing to process and the amount of evidence. Here's here's the cold hard fact. One of those two young girls most likely witnessed the murder of the second of her friend. Guess they're going to be able to find out a lot of information and you hope that there's going to be discretion attached to all of this that if that information is not going to lead them to a conviction of the murderer of these two girls girls that that is something that maybe they won't share and it won't be they won't say that it's clearly determined because that is a horrible thought it really is and they are. They should be afraid. You're right there is a killer on the loose. These are two young girls doing something that young girls do and somebody found them and killed them. as is a picture makes headlines in sparks more questions. The family is straddling two different emotions. Loss and optimism that the picture will start filling in some blanks. Here's how Libya's grandfather might patty sitting with his wife. Becky remember just sitting here. Both this is so such disbelief that this has happened so I don't know when they shared that information with this if it was before or if they just released that information out which was a picture of the we all refer to him now as bridge guy I I do recall. It seems like it was a person of interest that we WANNA talk to for Kerry Timmons. Liberty's mom it was just one more thing so there was suddenly all this speculation of is there a trail cam is there you know I think that was probably the biggest one there. There had been a trail came out there. So it's all caught on video and and then there are people wear whereas this trail cam and I'm just like we didn't know immediately. That had come from her phone but then I think they released within a few days after that that it had come from her phone but then then all the rumors started. We'll we'll do. They have her phone to they. Get it from my cloud. Where did this come from so that just it was all really crazy night and everything kind of happened and pretty quickly? I mean we were suddenly like planning a funeral planning of viewing and and it just grew it was. It was so big so when you look at the chronology of the story from in February two thousand seventeen to where we are now. It is littered with big moments and this is the biggest one to date. The picture is from video on her phone. And it's interesting because we know now that it's from video but at the time families the Media People Watch watch it like we didn't know that right they didn't say where I come from and people were wondering like was there a trail cam out. There is surveillance camera. Then we find out it's from Libya's he's phone she's called a hero for that. I remember when that photo came out. And they're saying this is just somebody we wanNA talk to and I remember being skeptical immediately immediately. That wait a minute. Is he just somebody you WanNa talk to or is he a little more than that. I remember Working Rachel and at the time and being in the control room I we were covering during this case and I turned to the producer to my left and I said look police are calling. This guy is suspect but I we all kind of know where this road is headed and this is also. Where are we learn a nickname for him? Because he is unnamed so people start calling him bridge guy which is sort of morphed into b g the initials. It's also where there begins. Laser focus on the bridge the dimensions geography which direction the Guy was coming from. Where on the bridge? That photo was taken. There is just a hiber focus and fascination and interest on the bridge itself there's a lot to dissect about that photo to. What does it actually show us? Our his hands in his pockets are his hands in his jacket. Let's see wearing exactly. Does he have something on his head. Is that a shirt tail. If the walls of this writer room could talk about the things we've speculated in that photo at least fifty five different things what they are what. They aren't what they could be what they can't be. I mean the speculation in the guessing of what's in that photo is literally endless. And you think when you hear that there's a photo of somebody party that you would be able to tell what they're wearing what they look like and in this photo you just can't and if you WanNa see these pictures you can go to our website which is down the hill podcast dot com. And we've got all of the materials there. See you can see everything yourself. There's a lot to look at it in the story three. So it's a great spot to find all of the visual elements maps photos. You know all of that stuff and when the photo was released everyone believed that someone must has to recognize this person. That was the early feeling since then that pictures been poured over. It's been analyzed and it's been picked apart by anyone and everyone with an interest in this case especially investigators here's ISP superintendent. Doug Carter as we've had a lot of work with the photograph and you can't make that better for the public. Can I ask when you look at that. Do you see a hat to DC hair. Do you see a hood do you know. Yeah I mean I I I do I do again a not a long time ago. I I don't look at the head anymore. Look everything else we know about this. I I am. We think what we feel about this person. We know what his body looks like. I Walk Talks While the people of Delphi wrap their heads around the photo of the man on the bridge. There's a wave of media on the way. Hey everyone. It's Dan over the last two chapters. We've taken a little time out to find some moments. Does that give us a sense of who abby libby were. And this time we're going to hear from Cynthia Rossi. You met her before earlier in our story. She and abby were a very close friends. So here's Cynthia with a memory of summertimes in Debbie. We would always spend our summers spy her pool and we just loved eating watermelon while sitting on her porch under an umbrella by the pool in we would always take are watermelon slices and set them out on the railing of her porch in wait for all the butterflies to come in. She loved watching the butterflies utter flies. She has always loved butterflies. They were just such a huge part of her life so huge symbol in her life. And I'll just never forget a sitting there for way too much time just staring at butterflies. I just remember whenever we spend our summers together. We just felt it free from school in responsibility in. We just felt like we could spend quality time together in. We wouldn't have to worry about homework or any assignments and I think she disliked the fact that they were free and they just flew wherever they wanted they can do whatever they wanted whenever they wanted and I think she she just liked that about them. We'll have more memories of Abbey Libyan the the people Delphi and upcoming chapters for now though let's get back to the show Hearts three a little beehive. Nobody smiled. I mean nobody smiled for days It was just just this. It gives me goosebumps. Still think about it just it was sad it was A very slow pace It wasn't wasn't that people were suspicious of others. I think that came later. It was just this era of I. Don't I don't even want to be here. You know I don't know what to do with myself. And we were flooded with media and so if anything you saw a lot of media trucks and people interviewing lean and people just stopping in wanting to say hey. Do you WANNA say a few words on camera and you know locals just we were all still trying to process what in the world it happened Barbara. I think the story is stuck out. I think there's a couple of different elements. It's a small town. Bits considered a safe place and then something really terrible happen there in broad daylight and then it only got more more bizarre from there right. I mean if this happened up the road in Chicago or an Indianapolis it wouldn't necessarily be the lead on every single news channel and I think the other thing. Is You know the media in a town like this. The story that they were coming to cover it wasn't necessarily the sore there. We're going to get or that. They're going to because of the twists and turns that continue to take place. Exactly IT'S A. It's a bizarre story. We generally know how these things are going to end and in this one. Nobody could have anticipated where we are today in a lot of that at at this point is falling on the shoulders of one man in that sargent came Riley from the Indiana state police. When did this release? Start this case. Start to really get the media attention outside of this area. I'M GONNA say late late that night or early. The next morning we started to get believe it or not we had the BBC showed up out of New York. Had A couple of the reporters. Here I was getting phone on calls from other countries. It was just starting to snowball. I mean I've dealt with national news on other another things but not to the way this this was and it was just a whole new experience for me and it was time to call in some help for me and I had some great other. Just they came in and assisted me and backed me up where I would do. One thing that we'd be doing something else behind the scenes so it was. It was nice to know that I had that kind of help. NOPE For the first month or so it just it just continued and the interest just kept rolling and growing. Why do you think there's that interest? I think once we kind of got out of what happened and the information that we did put out there. I know at first. We didn't put a whole lot and it was. There's reasons three aces on the ground. When you're looking for the fourth one in a card game and you know that's kind of what we're trying to do is hold all the information and we could But yet yet still feed the media as much as we could and I know there's a fine line between those two and it was and there was a couple of times I probably said something I should have not aww said but it was one of those things that it was just. It was hard to hold back and I always conferred with my lead detectives Both in the sheriff's department harm and and our guys and with the FBI when we did do news conferences or when we did when they knew I was getting this information was getting ready to put it out. I always ran up by them before. For most of the time before there was time I could not do that but ninety percent of the time I tried to run everything by them before I talk to the media because I didn't want to say something that was going to jeopardize or hurt the investigation. So it was. It was a fine line on what we were doing. But we try to do the best we could with the information we could put out there while Kim Riley is managing the onslaught of media the appeal for tips and leads at yesterday's press conference is clearly being answered. Hundreds of of them have already come in and while that's happening sheriff. Tobe Lazenby is managing his team of investigators in a community dealing with a sudden influx of. Well everyone is that sudden swarming. If you will that occurred in our our community were down by law enforcement media the governor himself you know coming on board. It's just the over initial overwhelming feeling on every yet You know where we currently are now. The DELPHI city building thing. It's like watching a little beehive. Oh main with all these investigators in and out the door all the time with a file in their hand and going to follow end window. Whomever I remember seeing that first couple days around the you know once? We were organized round the clock. I mean there were million million nights I was up there till maybe one or two in the morning and still seeing guys and now the door all the time following in things those those things they were following up on would lead them to a property on the southwest side of Carroll County. Here's h anchor. Gene Cassara is again with Lindsay eaten. She's a reporter based out of Indianapolis. We do have information to report. The state police are serving a search warrant at a home and Delphi. This is in in response to information. That police received through tips and through interviews giving probable cause to search the home. No word on whether there have been any arrests at this hour we do want to begin tonight with Lindsay eaten she is a reporter for CBS. Four Fox fifty nine in Indianapolis a Lindsey. You are at the seeing tonight. Tell us what you have seen with executing of this search warrant at a home correct correct. We've been out here for about an hour Eight phillies did service search warrant at his home within the past hour some of the authorities have left there is still quite a large presence of authorities out here we have been detected if is bringing them boxes from this home. There's a field next door to this home. We called detectives with flashlights looking through the field. at this point the the latest we have heard. No arrests have been made troopers are stored Riley actually just pulled us about an hour ago. That they don't anticipate any arrest to be made aid. This was sort of following up on a tip that they received in the he said. This is just another piece of the puzzle. They're following up at each. And every Lindsey. I want some more detail here. How many boxes have you seen a forties takeout tonight? Have they taken anything. Other than boxes. Any carpeting any mattresses Taurus's anything we have not we have not we saw. Maybe just a couple like I said we got here around seven o'clock we saw maybe a couple of boxes taken from the home. I can tell you there. There's no crime tape around the house There are a few authorities still out here. They were searching field next door. We saw them going around the house. Ah In and out of the door and asked about it at this point minutes later on the same show Kim Riley called in from the scene of that search. Okay so you went to a judge and judge signed off on this warrant. Why did you select this home and Delphi through the investigation with the Church and the Interviews we've had had caused To going ballots. Unisearch all that when you look at the time line of this case there are multiple blips on that time. Line of really significant events in February sixteenth. Eighteenth at dusk the search of this home outside of town which we just heard Kim Riley talking about I'm trying to imagine Agean Delphi resident and hear that there is a swarm of law enforcement on how you must think that this is it. We're GONNA get this solved. This is the end of it and that's not what happened. They were there for several hours. We saw boxes coming out. The media had gathered. I mean it was a big spectacle spectacle on the edge town. You know this is two days after the murders and I'm sure there had to be some feeling amongst the folks in town because as we've mentioned this is a small town so law enforcement activity of that scale on a house outside of town within in our everyone in town knows that this is happening there has to be a feeling of optimism. And hope that there's going to be some new information new answers searchers. The most optimistic being. We're going to wrap this thing up and figure it out right. That's what it looks like. This is the first big police response. We're seeing other than them out at the scene and I'm sure a lot of people did feel that way but that's not what happened. And instead the prosecutor Robert Ives takes to facebook page that night and this is what he wrote according to the Lafayette Journal and Courier and he wrote. Please do not harass bother or accuse anyone. There are no charges pending against anyone as a result of the pending investigation. No one at the home search is suspected of committing any crime. MM please please leave these people alone and let the police work. And at the time that the newspaper quoted that facebook post they said it had already been shared like six hundred time. So you have this huge response. But then you have this message from the officials that Nothing came of that Tom but it still leaves a question. Because we heard Kim Riley say a just a moment ago he said we had probable cause also go into the house and do a search on it in order to get a search warrant. You have to have probable cause so with Bravo. 'cause we don't know so who knows about probable cause us attorney right so we have one bread Semedo Vich. If the last name sounds familiar it is also the last name of our producer. Dan Summits Ovacik the brothers. Brad thanks for joining us. He's been on the phone many days many a times for us as we've kind of picked his legal brain. How are you today man? I'm doing well. How are you guys doing doing? Well doing well. Thanks for joining us. We call Brett all the time when we have questions just the first time. We're doing it with my correct. 'cause we've talked a lot about the legal side of this case you know. Obviously there's a lot of kind of criminal investigation stuff but you know at some point. We're GONNA hit some sort of legal phase so we've talked about a lot about this but Brett. I'm curious can you Kinda give us. Some understanding of what a search warrant entails what is probable. Cause give it to us in Layman's terms for the people that don't deal with US everyday. Sure it won't Layman's terms. Probably caused means that the police have a a reasonable belief that there is evidence of a crime in a place to be searched That's boiling away down of course but ultimately to get a search warrant As a former prosecutor I can tell you this my from my own experiences. What would happen? Is that a police officer or detective would come into our office. They would have an affidavit That would be a sworn statement in support of not only their experience but also why they believe that this property needs to be searched. And what they're looking for and if it meant that probable cause standard that there is a good faith basis to believe that there's evidence that the crime on this property or place to be searched. Then that would go to the judge. The judge reviewed for accuracy sufficiency. And if there is enough probable cause the judge would sign off on that search worn. Then it's off to the races for the police specific. Do they need to be in that statement. Do they need to say we're looking for a gun or we're looking for bloody clothes. Do they need to be that specific they should be. CBS specific as they possibly can because a search warrant needs to be limited in scope. And by that I mean you can't say I'm GONNA the entire state of Indiana right. You have to say I'm searching this house this property for this reason. And here's what I'm looking for. But more importantly why am I looking for there. You can't just say I picked this Random House I wanNA search. It has to be supported by competent evidence. And by that I mean this the police have to say well we have a tip from someone. We saw a bloody pretty shoes from across the way. And there it is we want to go in and get it right. There has to be more than just a wild goose chase. It has to be supported by competent evidence. And if you you don't have that you're not going to have probable cause to grant that search and what is your experience with how high this bar is for judges when they're looking at these. The statements is at a really high bar. They have to prove that they have reason to believe. This evidence exists there or is it a low bar because this this is just a search warrant. Well it's a high burden that's placed on the judges and on the on the police. I should say and it should be because you're trying to have the police enter your private property to search for something. There's a relatively high burden that being said there's no defendant. That's arguing against why the police should not be able to go in there. The person who's the subject of the search doesn't have the ability to contest a search warrant at the outset so it's a one sided game in that regards but you still have to have enough to reach that that probably 'cause Threshold so Brent. You're saying that there's there's generally a high bar that has to be cleared in terms of probable cause there has to be a narrow scope of what you're looking for this search specifically on this property two days after these girls are murdered. Is it unusual to you that asserts. There's like this ended with nothing this soon after the crime yes generally speaking of course in my experience. If you're getting a search warrant that is really close to the crime then usually or should be supported by competent evidence. There's a reason that you're looking so quickly and you feel like it's necessary to get a search warrant within a couple of days for that property information in theory of crime is still fresh right all. That's happening really quickly. If you're getting a search warrant maybe a couple of years after crime occurred and you're trying to go back and piece things together. Well No. It's a little bit more common. The ERA GONNA strike out for lack of better term but when it's so close in time to the crime I yes I think it is surprising and usually usually pretty rare that you're just gonNA come up at the end. That's interesting real interesting bread cemetery. Thanks for joining US man. We really really appreciate it. Thank you for having me Sabar. I know that Robert is the prosecutor in Delphi. In Carroll County at the time said as you mentioned known at the home searched the suspected of committing any crime. That doesn't mean that law enforcement can't then revisit later right. But it's been three years. We've had a recent conversations with Kim Riley from the Indiana state police and he says bet search is not as significant to the investigation now as it seemed that night to them and that they went to that property they thought there could be somebody at that property. who was was the suspect and apparently the investigation revealed that wasn't the case and he also told us it's not as important of an asset set as it was that night so the property in that search warrant it would appear as it stands now? They've moved on but for the people of Delphi for property to be searched and combed over and picked through with the vigor that this police force was using using had to been some optimism. Thinking that they're going to be making an arrest but this is also part of what they're doing is they're are also trying to figure out where their attention is not needed. They're looking at people out there looking at evidence they're looking at all the different things that are coming their way and figuring out what matters letters to this investigation and what doesn't and it certainly looks like right now. That search is not a big part of this investigation and it should also be mentioned. You know we tried to get the paperwork related to that search warrant but as the ISP or any law enforcement agency will do in an ongoing going investigation that is their their justification for denying the request documents so we did did do our due diligence but unfortunately they were not stories and also because ruling out in a Lotta ways is just as important as ruling it in our next chapter. I have trouble saying those words. It's I eighty here. It would. He really remembers but that very very first time that that recording was played couldn't really understand what he was saying. It was all like computerized computerised sounding and then they were able to clean it up and suddenly it was D. T. H.. And it was like is he saying like why and I remember thinking. It doesn't even sound like urgent. He's not yelling he. He's so calm down. The Hill is written and produced by Dan San Mateo Vich Andrew Ayden and me Barbara McDonald old with original music and scoring by shoe. Sir Michael Dudley and Calen- chassis are associate producers. If you WANNA see the people places and things were talking about visit our website down the hill. PODCAST DOT COM Sherry. Selby's is H. L. N.. Senior production manager manager. Brian Bell is H. L. N.. Senior director of programming and Tyler Moody is the vice president of the Warner media. PODCAST network a special thanks to the people of Delphi and the members of law enforcement who are in charge of solving this crime and most important of all a big thank you to you. Of Of course we appreciate your listening. This podcast is brought to you by simply safe home. Security for a sixty day risk free trial we'll visit simplisafe dot com slash d t h get the best security system and most comprehensive protection for your home with the use of outdoor cameras doorbells in motion sensors. You'll see and be notified of anyone approaching your home with twenty four seven live surveillance by security professionals simply safe also so protect your home from fires water damage and carbon monoxide poisoning to no contracts and no tools are needed for installation. And it's only fifty cents per day. Go to simplisafe dot com slash D t h today for free shipping and a sixty day risk free trial at simplisafe dot Com Slash D._t.. H so they we sent you. That's simplisafe dot com slash T T H.
Chapter 4: Three Words
"To get a look at the people in places we're talking about in this show and to find out how you can call or email in a tip. Visit our website down the hill. Podcast DOT com when you hear the clip down the hill. What does that do to? You makes me sick literally. Hate those words hate those words and Crazy three works can just really disrupt thirty minutes. That's all it will take to disrupt this case and everything we know about the information we're about to get. It's not a lot but it's the most police have ever released about what happened out there that day. It will make this murder case unique. We're about to get a brief glimpse into abby and Libya's final moments to imagine what they saw and what they felt that's different. That's what separates this one from all the others. What happened before and after that small look has hatched thousands of theories. One thing. Everyone can agree on though. Is the fact that on this day. February twenty-second two thousand seventeen thirty minutes. We'll set the tone for everything to come are also examining this snapchat photo. It was taken just before both girls disappeared the amount that the girls have been found not to a good end. We are investigating this as a trying. Seen we suspect foul play law enforcement is saying that one of the girls actually took video on her iphone. They say it was right before she was murdered. We have we have a still photograph. We have sound this person as it could be half the white males and Carroll County to the killer who may be in this room. We likely interview. We know that this is about power to you and you want to know what we know. One day you will. This is down the hill. The Delphi murders. We are back here at C. N. N. Center in the writer's room. I'm drew Ayden and I'm Barbara. Mcdonald's we want to say thanks to you folks for joining us as we kind of walked through the story line here of what happened in Delphi and what we know right now. Is that two girls Abigail Williams Thirteen and Liberty German. Fourteen have been murdered and we know they were walking on a bridge shortly before those murders and in the wake of that some photos have emerged. There's two snapchat photos Abbey on the bridge. And then one of the bridge itself and then there's two of a man grainy pictures of a man on the bridge. We don't know when that day. We don't really have any specifics. But he the pretty spooky wells and know that there is a search warrant that was served on a home just outside of town. It didn't seem to yield anything. There were no arrests. And then there's been no arrests anywhere else in town either so we're essentially at zero. It appears from an investigative standpoint but at the same time the story is growing in terms of interest across the country and beyond this is already the biggest news story in the State of Indiana. It is quickly growing as a national story and international story. People WanNa know who is the man in that picture on the bridge. What did he see? What does he know is he the guy who did this as we go through this journey together? We're trying to answer the the big questions. Who did this? What the Hell happened out there that day? And how hasn't this been solved yet? And in any case like this. There's inevitably moments in an investigation where things pick up speed and pick a momentum and as we move forward in the story. We're going to get those. Today is one of those days. We are going to begin to see some evidence. We're GonNa hear clip of audio. That is going to completely ratchet up the craziness factor on this story dialogue. We do have breaking news tonight. In the murderers of two teenagers in Indiana Liberty German and Abigail Williams went missing last week after going hiking their bodies were found the next day and for the past week. We have been looking at this image and image of a man officers. Call the prime suspect in the case and new tonight. We are hearing for the very first time. Three words muttered by an unknown man in the vicinity of those two girls on that day to day is when libs phone really takes center stage. We find out that not only did police find it. But there's evidence on that phone that she recorded for us the video that has become the jumping off point for a million theories. It's the centerpiece of this story. The X. factor that whenever I have told someone about this case they inevitably say. Oh that's the case of the girls on the bridge and the video of the guy and it's it's creepy to think of two girls being on a bridge and recording their killer. I think the natural next question after the discovery of this video is how much is on the phone. What else is on there? That can kind of connect the dots of what happened out there. And how much of it are they gonNa let us see and barb? When we sat down with Sergeant Kim Riley he actually told us about learning of that video. I myself learned within probably twenty four hours. I'm going to say something like that so sometime late in the afternoon or the next day. I'm not sure The exact time like I said it's been a couple years ago but I knew pretty early. What they had and we were trying to decide what we could do with it and what we wanted to do with it. I can't remember the exact date of when we released the photo. Maybe within the first two weeks I'm not sure actually. I think it was a little bit more than that because I was actually getting ready to go on a vacation like the first of March so this case was still to only two weeks old when I left right. I WANNA go back to the video for a moment Have you seen the whole video? Yes obviously without telling us the parts that you don't WanNA release. Can you tell us what that's like to watch that video? There was scary. I guess would be one way to put it just seeing Just seeing the feelings that we're going through the girls at the time I'm not going to say which one in particular but just knowing that I you know just knowing what they knew is is frightening for thirteen or fourteen year old girl to know and I just think just kind of went through my mind over and over again for a long time every now and then I'll I'll think about it but for the first six eight months I mean it was something I was going through for all the time I was always thinking about it. It was just very heart wrenching for an adult to deal with that alone. Thirteen and fourteen year old girl. It was scary. It was I felt so sad. There was nothing I could do. But that's that's the way it is now. Unfortunately we're not. There are kids all the time and sometimes bad things happen. I guess that's the only way I can explain it a few days into the investigation. Sheriff Tobe Lesin be also saw that video and understood immediately the importance of what they found. Do you recall when you found out that. There was a video that libby had taken. I get it may have been that same day or possibly the next day was again. Long after the initial information came in to us but The initially that was safeguarded very closely. Did you watch the video that early in the process as I recall woods I would say it was just a matter of days and when I say days maybe no more than a couple of days into it that I had the opportunity to review it and I know there's stuff in that video that you're not releasing publicly. Can you talk a little bit about that? Process of watching that video and what that was like early on like Minneapolis in our leadership roles and in many of commonsense them and the Mike. Patty and I've even talked about him but for Libby to have that mindset to to be able to do what she did In my mind I thought you know. She's she's helping here. She's she's telling us something and and obviously as time where long we've we've found out what she was telling us and so when. I first saw it. I guess knowing you know. She's at the age that she is at that point. I'm thinking based she sharp. I mean this is great. You know I you know. It's all Kudos to her for what she did there. I think it was definitely felt it to be a huge asset. And what you know. We we continue to do here and follow into and so and I still feel like at the end of the day so to say that it's still going to be a plus to have that on board when you heard the voice what went through your mind. My initial thought was that. Satan's voice himself I'm very spiritual man. So that was my exact thought that that's the devil himself speaking. Do you listen to people when you're walking around town when you're sitting in restaurants you listening for that voice all not so much during right now but yes in the beginning and again as we revisit as as more so my investigators than me but We Revisit Certain Aspects Yon and there are times that I will go back actually on my weekends and I'm at home sitting in my lazy boy. I've been known to start up that audio again. Listen to it and go stat. Eight days after they found the video and Libya's phone. Investigators held a news conference. That even now is one of the stories. Most critical moments there are public knowledge and Thomas introduced today. Couple folks department heads that are here. We have Delphi. Mayor Shane Evans Carroll County Prosecutor. Rob Is Kiro County. Sheriff TOBE LESSON. Be Delphi police. Chief Steve Mullen Indiana State Police Superintendent. Doug Carter Doug Carter. You've heard his voice throughout this podcast. He started every chapter. He's State Police Superintendent. He's the boss. He was raised in Indiana and has a degree in management and leadership and after eighteen years as a state trooper was elected twice a sheriff of Hamilton County Indiana. His Dad was a state trooper and his daughter is a police officer. Doug Carter is law enforcement twenty four seven. He's a passionate speaker and you may even think he's a little extra impersonal. Though in a way from cameras he is exactly the same. He's powerful and deliberate with his words and he's taking responsibility. Gore bad for whatever happens in this case and the public facing portion of that begins on February twenty. Second two thousand seventeen at this news conference words ten escape during these periods of times. And I've only had a couple of other situations in my lifetime when able to stand before you and say that. Why Libby Abby why Delphi why? Carol County why the region why the state and why even in the nation I say that because this is a classic example in a clear example that evil lives amongst us to the family of the community the region. The state as Lear Indiana state. Police I say I am so very sorry resources. It's unlikely that any of you will ever see nor will we ever see or experience again. The level of resources that are attached to this investigation to the media. My Gosh all I can say. Give you my sincere. Thanks see. This isn't like TV. There's a perception that this can be solved very quickly. Anything that we do can be solved very quickly. This is a testament that that it can't and we need you. We've needed you since last week. We need you today. We need you tomorrow and likely we'll need the media all across the nation so for simple guy like me to you. I say thank you to the People Dress. Funny like me. And those who represent the law enforcement profession please understand where human beings just like you extend anywhere in the nation with people standing behind me and I would suggest to you that every time something like this happens a little piece of dies as well but I also want you to understand how committed we are as as a collective one and we will continue. I've had an opportunity to speak to my boss. Governor Air Kokomo a couple different times about this situation and every time I do I see this. Look that comes over his face just like yours and this communities. And that's that's the unfortunate experience of experiencing evil not stopping the poster in front of you. Someone knows who this individual is. Someone knows who this individual is. Is it a family member? Is it a neighbor? His an acquaintance is an associate. Are Maybe that one guy that lives over at that one place that just kinda not right. Maybe it just jeans. Maybe it's his jacket or sweatshirt. Maybe it's a shirt tail. Maybe it's just posture. Maybe it's the right hand in his pocket you see even with technology. We need human intelligence in other words. We need you. I'm not suggesting that science that everything that we can do is science has been done because we are just getting started. Abby deserve US each and every person listening watching horsing this in some form we need you Libyan. Abby need you. Please do not rationalize tips away rationalize what you think. That might not be important away by thinking he would never do that to another human. Being or think I know doesn't matter let folks like the people that are standing behind me. Which such incredible passion and commitment and dedication to this profession make that determination tips are anonymous. Some minority talk about it. Because I don't WANNA get involved. Because they know the individual again maybe a family member probably family. No one will ever know. No one will ever know. There's no names on the planet better than than helping US facilitate this than the FBI and there's this entrenched in this as anybody. No one will know as poor as this picture is. Somebody knows if you're watching we'll find you who's next. I hate to ask you that question. I'd give my life to not have to but I know you've asked yourself that very question. We must recognize that you see. We're all the same. We're all human beings we must keep our resolve for Libyan abby for this community and frankly to ensure her that good trump's evil and it will hear quite hear more in just a minute about what we know. Do not discount the voice that you hear. We will stay committed with resolve. Their barely rarely exhibited with human behavior until this conclusion. Please be patient. Become our partners and communicate with us as often as you can. And now from very humble servant the symbols blessed guy on this planet to represent the profession that I represent to Abbey and libby. It's my hope. And my prayer. The experiencing God's promise of eternal peace. You would be hard pressed to find a law enforcement member anywhere. Who speaks with the passion? The tone and the focus of superintendent. Doug Carter of the Indiana state police. This guy is making it clear from here on out that the messaging from this investigation comes from one person and it's him and the optics of this presser. I think also feed into that because you have several men up there on the stage. They're all in their uniform with their badges. Carter is standing there at the podium with all of these men flanking him at the church is in it. Yes this is at the Delphi United Methodist Church. They needed a larger space. So Delphi doesn't have a lot of places re-invite the media in this was one of them and this is also when we begin to hear a bit of dialogue directly to the killer right. He speaks directly to the person responsible. We can speak all day long about the psychology of what he's trying to appeal to whether it's you know the guys sensibilities or sensitivities but he also says who's next. That's the first time we've gotten any inclination. That law enforcement has a feeling that? There's a possibility of a repeat offense here right earlier. There was some confusion over why they weren't telling people to be afraid now. They're asking who's next. It's a bit of a contradiction it is and it's a chilling question to now all of a sudden ripon during that. And you know we mentioned that this press conference was at the Church. He invokes religion to He. Does he talks about abby and Libyan eternal peace and this is a theme that we're going to see from Superintendent Carter throughout this story. Ah So everything begins with the Carter in this case and while he is establishing that dialogue you have to imagine that they are starting the process of putting a picture of a profile together. That's right that's the FBI's role they've been on scene since the beginning and this presser what we hear throughout it it does sound like they have begun that process of trying to figure out. What kind of person would have done this? What is the the psychology of that person? We're going to hear more of that. Hey everyone it's Dan simply safe home. Security is the highest level of security. You can have with. Police dispatch up to three hundred and fifty percent faster than a normal burglar alarm. With simply safe you get comprehensive protection for your home outdoor cameras and doorbells alert you to anyone approaching your home at entry. Motion and glass break. Sensors guard the inside. If there's a break in they use real video evidence to give police in eyewitness accounts of the crime plus simply safe protects your home from your water damage and carbon monoxide poisoning to and it's all monitored twenty four seven by live security professionals. 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Stresses Big one for me and better help gives me a place where I can talk to someone when I need to keep track of how I'm feeling you can connect privately with a counselor through text chat phone and video calls and get help on your own time at your own pace at affordable rates and if you happen not to click with the professional. You're working with you can opt for a new one at no additional charge. Better help is committed to finding the right person to give you the right. Help down the hill listeners. Get ten percent off their first month with Discount Code. D T H. That's better help dot com slash D T H. Why not get help? Better help dot com slash t t h partout sight. And sound the the down. The hell do you. Do you believe you know what hill that was that they went down right down there and is that a steep hill is at a walkable hill was pretty rough terrain. We're about to hear from the FBI as well and they are in this from the beginning helping to process evidence found at the scene and also helping to put together a profile of what kind of person might have done this the FBI's initial involvement in this case was sort of by happenstance and agent happened to be in town visiting family and decided to go and participate in the search for the girls. First night heard the call for volunteers and went out and so the FBI was certainly aware of what was going on very early. Nine days ago. we had an agent that was participating in the search for the missing victims. And from that moment until this morning we have stood shoulder to shoulder with our law enforcement partners here the FBI plays an important support role in this investigation joint investigation. And I'd like I'd like to community to to go back to the afternoon of February thirteenth Monday February thirteenth. And just think if you had an interaction with an individual who inexplicably cancelled an appointment that you had had together or An individual called into work sick and cancelled the out and out an important appointment or social engagement and at the time gave what would have been a plausible explanation myself own broker. I had a flat tire on my car. But in retrospect that excuse no longer holds water that may be that may be important. Just a note he's about to say may thirteenth. He clearly means February likely. So our behavioral indicators that this individual may have exhibited since the afternoon of May thirteenth did this individual travel unexpectedly. Did they change their appearance today? Shave their beard cut their hair change the color of their hair. The Superintendent mentioned the close at this individuals wearing in the photo. Did they did? They changed the way they dress. Did their behavior change their sleep. Pattern is different now. Did they start abusing a drugs or alcohol where whereas they would not have been anxious nervous? Irritable have they followed this case and the media's putting out With a with a sense. That is not normal. have they had ongoing discussions regarding Their their whereabouts on that afternoon or thereafter and so while Superintendent Carter starts a dialogue with the killer. This is more of an appeal to the killers friends and family because he probably does have friends and loved ones who may already be wondering. What's what's up what's going on and all of this while there are billboards going up all over the country states including I saw one here in Atlanta. There's a public service announcement that goes out to all of the Indiana radio outlets. I'm sorry. Tony Slocum Indiana State police at approximately twelve fifteen pm February fourteenth two thousand seventeen the bodies of Abigail Jay Williams. Thirteen and Liberty Rose Lynn German. Fourteen both from Delphi Indiana found in the wooded area near the Delphi historic trails. East to Delphi Indiana. Okay let's get back to the press conference at this time. I would like to invite Captain Day. Burston Chief Public Information Officer for Indiana State Police to the podium for the last seventeen minutes of this briefing authorities have been giving shape to the evidence that's been released normally oppressor like this is largely routine with a lot of procedural questions. There are rarely surprises. But when Dave Burston top spokesman with the Indiana state police comes to the microphone. There is a brand new headline. Thank you we do. Have some new information for you today. It's in the form of audio file from the cellphone. The Liberty German had with her at the time. We're not going to play everything that we have but liberty had the presence of mind to turn on video camera again. We're not going to be able to share everything with you but we are going to share this audio clip with you momentarily with the hope that somebody will recognize this voice. I want to be very clear that what you're about to hear is just four short words. Excuse me three words down the hill. You're going to hear this played four times. The audio quality is not superb. But there's enough there that somebody could recognize this person's voice and a Superintendent Carter said not to rationalize away if you hear this today and you think my God that sounds like fill in the blank. Call US. Make an anonymous tip. Tell us who you think. It is. Let us investigate it. If it's not the right person they'll just be out a little bit of time and they'll be weird they can go on and they'll never know that you call that you may tell us who the right person was and you could be the person that helps us to solve this horrible crime. Mica play the clip. Please play it one. More time burst in than puts together the sound with the photo of the man on the bridge. It's on an Easel in front of them. Next to two large photos of Abbey Libby the image that you see there of the suspect that came from liberties phone. I think many of you had speculated that before we weren't prepared to discuss the time we have more video we're not releasing it it's Germane to our investigation and it's important that we spread that person's voice far and wide for somebody that will recognize who that is and we'll call us and tell us I talked to a while back audio forensics expert about these words specifically and my question was what can someone who does what he does. Glean from hearing that you know. Is there an accent? Is there kind of a regional dialect? I mean it's tough because there's only three words and basically he said to me especially with a sample size this short. There's basically not a lot that you can get out of it and I think law enforcement knows that and that's why they loop it and play it three or four times so you are hearing. What sounds like a longer clip in theory but it is still just those three words that we have to work with at this point in the investigation and there is a tip line that the FBI takes over. There is a website. There's an email address that people can send in tips. There's a lot of different ways. That law enforcement are asking for the public to deliver that help that they've been begging for since this crime happened the other thing. That's important to note here. Is that Dave Burston. Who's kind of the chief spokesperson for the Indiana State Police? He says that they're not sharing everything. Obviously the question is how much more is there? Well it sounds like there's a pretty significant amount. What other stuff is on that phone and what they're going to tell us now also in the this press conference there is a QNA session. That happens right after and oftentimes. That's usually when the TV cameras sort of leave and go back to their regular programming but this one was kind of interesting there were a couple of wow moments. Let's start going through those sort of one at a time. Is there any specific information that says the person has local or far away? No could this be a stranger crime. That's a possibility this be somebody that knew that the girls are going to be there that time. That's a possibility. Nothing is off the table. The rest of these are tough to hear so we'll read them for you question. How long after Liberty Posted Social Media? Did this crime happened to the murders happened immediately. After or was there time for someone to see them on social media and then meet them Metro as as we know that they're going to be lots of questions that we specifically cannot answer because there are things that we do not want to tip our hand to the person responsible for this that kind of information. We're keeping close to ourselves. Is it reasonable to think that that's an area who wanna two things happen? That was a chance encounter. That's possible I don't think it's likely but it's possible or that person knew that they were going to be there. That's possible as well. Those are things that we're looking to question over here. Dave Burston is saying in that last question that it's possible the killer new. Those girls were out there. It was a moment that when we played this bag we all stopped and went. Wait a minute why at and so I reached out today Burston. He's no longer with the Indiana state. Police he retired in twenty nineteen and now is the chief communications officer for the Department of Corrections in Indiana so he still in the area but he reminded me. He is no longer part of this investigation. I asked him for some clarity on this statement. Did he mean to imply that? It's more likely that these girls were targeted. And that isn't what he's saying he's saying at this point in the investigation in February of two thousand seventeen. They are looking at all options. It basically comes down to what you'll hear. Investigators call target and target of opportunity. Those are two different things. Correct target being a PERP goes with the intention of killing a person by the name of whatever and then a target of opportunity. Being the person's goal is to commit a killing or murder coup. Those people are who they kill is irrelevant right. Perhaps he went there to commit this crime and then Abbey in libby stumbled upon him question based upon what you have it what other investigators have scene of this crime. Do you believe this individual has killed before? And what makes you believe he will do it again? There has been no indication right now that that this is part of a a serial Murderer if that's what your question is So As of the facts that we have collected at this point in time we have not tied to any other Known Homicides Barb. It is inevitable around such a high profile murder. It is inevitable that someone's going to ask the question. Is this a serial killer? It's important to note that while that question is obviously one of the first ones that's asked not every murder is at the hands of a serial killer however in this story the circumstances surrounding the murders because they are so different. It would lead you to believe that. Perhaps this was not the first time this was done. But that is certainly something that is looked at when you have a high profile murder like you said and the circumstances are different you look at other cases they obviously have not linked it to another homicide that they know of but Superintendent Carter Asks. Who's WHO's next worse. Central Logging Radio Show We. We have other information that we're not sharing and specific to your question Raphael. Keep in mind that they're likely the possibility of more than one person We're we're not saying that the person that the voice that you heard is the same as this person here. This is all very complicated very involved and as much as we would like to tell you everything. More importantly we want to solve the crime But again rest assured we're using our resources to put the person or persons murdered liberty German Abigail Williams into our jail here in Carroll County. That was a lot that just got delivered and the people of Delphi are now dealing with a very different story. Everything has changed for them. This is also where we start hearing multiple instances of them saying the person or persons always struck me interesting. Yeah so they don't say they're only looking for one person or they may be looking for Tube. They leave open up possibility that we're not sure how many people were dealing with yet law enforcement as a general rule. I think oftentimes has to hedge. Things has to leave the door open and they do that here. But sometimes that's not the case. Sometimes they save things for a specific reason. Unfortunately we are left to wonder. Is this hedging themselves? Is this a specific reason? Hey everybody it's Dan Semmoto Bitch and along with barb and drew I produce this show. There's a lot going on in the story but one thing we didn't want to lose in all of that is a sense of who abby libby were and we've been taking time out here and there to learn just that this chapter we have. Libya's grandfather Mike Patty talking a little bit about what kind of girl she was. She was a person who wanted to as much of a life as she could possibly get on the detri- everything do everything didn't matter what it was whether it's from rides at the carnival to her school project. She wanted to put as much into this. She possibly could to get as much out of it. Is You possibly could projects here at home? You know from Haroon wanting to paint at different colors. Redoing your desk which is one of the projects. She was right in the middle of When all this tragedy struck her desk sitting over here we've committed. That's going to be our next project. We're going to Redo her desk finish the project. She started that was just how she was. She was always had an iron or two in the fire. Showing law stuff going on all the time. We'll be hearing more about abby and Libby and other folks in Delphi in future for now though let's get back to the show part three. I knew she was smart. No idea that Wisconsin. I had no forewarning and I still have. I can't even like I. I have trouble saying those words. I can't hear it libs. Mom Carried Timmons remembers the first time she heard the audio but it was the first time I heard it was so like it wasn't cleaned up yet. That very first press conference. I don't know if anybody really remembers but that very first time the that recording was played couldn't really understand what he was saying and it was all like lake computerized sounding and then they were able to clean it up and suddenly it was D. T. H. And it was like what the Hell is he saying. Like Y and I remember thinking. That doesn't even sound like urgent. He's not yelling. He's so calm and still to this day as like so eerie sounding to me but it didn't recognize it didn't sound like anybody a nude and sound like anybody had ever heard before phrase. I never saw any heard anybody even used before. Like normally like in. Just go it. Wouldn't it didn't any sense? So that was weird. I still wish there's times I still wish I could hear more but I don't know how much more there is that I could handle hearing so I do. Try Not to think of what is actually going on. When he says those words Kerry Timmons can't say the words but Abbie's mom and a Williams is pulled in two directions about the release of the video the audio and the images every time. Something like that would happen. I would hold my breath because part of you wants this over and you hope you know who is in that picture in you. You hope you recognize that voice in the other part of you. Hope she don't because the idea that the person is most likely here or his lived here in somebody I may have crossed path was whether they knew who was or not or I knew them makes you ill and that is probably one of the hardest things to move through life on until this person is caught that every day. There's potential of them crossing your pass. Libya's friend Erica. Gibson is like a lot of people proud of Libya for capturing that evidence on her phone when you found out that she had actually taken a video of the guy. What did you think in my head? I was truly cheering. Her on. No one can do that. And that's You know that first hand evidence there that's the most important evidence because mean people can say they saw a guy. People can draw a sketch but I mean unless you have photographic memory like where you can remember. It's really hard and it's even hard for me to identify a person after I see them and I think that was amazing for her because she knew something was up. She knew she had to do something. Probably didn't have service so she thought of the next thing she could and I don't think a lot of people do think of that. She didn't know what was GONNA happen. I don't even know she knew. The guy was bad. Sometimes like we joke around abby when abby was out with her mom and she just take a photo and be like joking. Ravi Lake. That's your boyfriend or you know just joking around and so like it could. It started out as a joke like that and then some would next to each other or chatted or we did those jokes on the volleyball bus. Mostly like she'd take a photo and then she showed me. We never sent them but like it could've been something like that. I knowing them they're skits people. So like Abbie is like so goofy that she's like who pursued scares me and stuff like that and that's how she would act but I feel like it may of they thought maybe it would have been funny or something like that. I don't think they ever thought because they get scared but to me. It's like a joking scared so that guy must've really. I don't know scared them to Kelsey German. Libya's older sister feels the same way. I was really proud of my sister. I. I don't think that I knew the voice or the person that was in the video but watching the video. I was overwhelmed that my sister was able to do something like that and that she was able to know that something was going to happen. It was also very sad to know that she knew something was GonNa Happen. Like enough to take this video So so many emotions were hitting me once watching it that I don't really know exactly what I was feeling. I just know that I was just overwhelmed with so many emotions that I kind of. It was shocking to me like. I knew she was smart. I know she is smart and she does that kind of stuff all the time but it was crazy to think that she was able to know before something happened that she needed to do something. She's been called a hero for that. Yeah and she is but I definitely think both of them are. I don't think that one would have left the other so to me. Obvious my hero because she stayed with my sister and I love them both for that. Why Libby hit record on her phone. That's still unclear but carry. Libya's mom has her own thoughts. Do you think that libby took that video on purpose. Because she was concerned I think she got him in the video because she was concerned but I don't think that that was her initial purpose taking the video because it was my understanding that they were out there taking pictures and video anyway and like learning now with my my younger girls and snapchat and all this other video social media. They do that crap all the time. Even if they're just picking up a rock they're still taking a little video of it which I'm very thankful for but I didn't get it at the time so I think now looking back that she probably wasn't exactly videoing. I think she left it on and made sure it was recording. Because she knew something was not right. But I don't think that was the initial purpose. I could be completely wrong though. I haven't seen were hurt the entire video. Mike Patty. Libya's grandfather has his thoughts to and I've been asked a question is down that would have been living capturing that information in if things would've been different and girls wouldn't have been murdered. She would've came home and said look this. This guy was out here. Really Acting Weird a strange guy you know and with a shared I don. I know that's what she would have done. This real Weirdo out there. Of course we would have said no more trails. But that's why she would've captured that. No no doubt in my mind. She'll come home and said this Weirdo. Do you recognize anything in her video or the still that they've released unfortunately no. I wish I could. I wish I could recognize that voice or a rack my brain millions of times or thousands and thousands of times still even to this day. Something's GonNa trigger and say okay. Yeah I don't next time on down the hill. For months we had a plan for our fifth chapter. That was until one interview gave some brand new information about the crime scene. All I can say about the situation. Abby Libya's that there was a lot more physical evidence than that at the crime scene. It's probably not what you would imagine down. The Hill is written and produced by Robert McDonald. Dan Cemetery in me. Andrew Aydin with original music and scoring by Shuo. Sir Michael Dudley kaylene chassis are associate producers if you want to see the people places and things. We're talking about visit our website at down the hill. Podcasts DOT COM Cherry Soviets as h senior production manager. Brian Bell is senior director of programming and Tyler. Moody is the Vice President of the Warner Media podcast network. We want to say a special thanks to the people of Delphi in the members of law enforcement who are in charge of solving this crime and most important of all a big thanks to you. Of course we appreciate your listening.
Chapter 1: A Walk On The Bridge
"What's the one thing you've never told anyone people just like you tell all in a podcast called the secret room if you're a true story fan and you cannot not get enough of people's most intimate dreams desires in shame? You will love the secret. Room like meals deathbed confession that our daughter's absent father the movie star. I wish I could tell someone who the father is. While I'm still on earth. Were Jen secret. Love affair with a man on death. Row It's tearing my world upside down and something then. He just has devastated me or the way that Joey falls in love with inanimate objects I know people who were in relationships with construction equipment. People all around you carry the most amazing secrets. You're invited to the secret room for a front row seat to spectacular stories. That will touch you jar you and amaze you. I'm Ben Ham your host search for the secret room. A podcast about the stories. No one ever tells uh to see some of the people and places we'll be talking about this season and to learn more about the case. visit our website down the hill. PODCAST DOT COM sir. What does it mean to you to see this memorial when you come out here? There's intersections tough for me. Always be tough for me. I closed my eyes and I can see him. You know I can see it. Came from the left side over here and that joking and cutting up like two younger who do probably probably and then they turn left in the world's about to change turn right not left however it is and whoever it was has stared at this nature reserves. I just like we right now. I know that even the first first day right here stood right here. You're the top COP in the state of Indiana. This happened in broad daylight light. How unusual is that aspect? I don't ever remember anything like this in my entire a business thirty five years and I don't remember anything quite like this. This is is just different for so many reasons. Just so many things have caused us to be different. And it doesn't minimize any other loss of of a child or of the MOM or dad or for anger anybody but the totality of this is different. Doug Carter is certain absolute absolutely without a doubt we all know that murders go unsolved all the time. That's a familiar story. But here's why the murders of Abigail Williams and liberty German thirteen and fourteen years old are different. We can see who did it. We can hear who did it but we still don't know I know who did it. Delphi Indiana is a small place just north of Indianapolis with about three thousand people. They'll tell you this kind of thing doesn't happen here and they were right until it did. We're approaching the bridge. Now what do you see as you look at it him. I can seem standing right out. There can seem standing right out there. Feel the same way every time I come here. Gosh Dang it look back this way. You'll see them walking here. You can see you can see just doing the girls do. Yeah Golan listen so quiet so peaceful then what occurred right down there just beyond evil beyond what you can unplug the human mind understand. There's a reason this all happen. It is not just. I just don't know what it is slow as you stand here today. Are you convinced. Instant this cases solvable. Yes took one hundred percent. One hundred percent Nearly three years and close to fifty thousand tips later the murders of Abbey and Livy. That's what their friends and family call them are still unsolved. Investigators say the man who did this maybe living among them in Delphi sitting next to them in church in line at the grocery store what what happened on the bridge in those woods that day as he'd done it before will he do it. Again is a lot of evidence a lot of tips. Why isn't this solved? Police swear their one tip away from doing just that. Who has it and will they ever come forward over? The course of the next eight chapters were going into explore those questions with the people living. Let's get started. Police are also examining this snapchat. APD Chat photo. It was taken just before both girls disappeared the announcement that the girls have been found not to a good end. We are investigating a in crime scene. We suspect foul play. Law Enforcement is saying that one of the girls actually took video on her iphone. They say it was right before she was murdered. TWO WE HAVE A. We have a still photograph. We have sound they. We don't have this person's it could be a half the white males and Carroll County to killer who may be in this room we likely interview. We know that this is about power to you and you want to know what we know. One day you will. This is down the hill. The Delphi murderers home. I'm Girardin here at C. N. N. Center in Atlanta Georgia. And I'm one of the hosts of this podcast alongside Barbara McDonald the other host and I'm Dan Autobahn producing the show and before we get started there are thousands and thousands of murders that go unsolved. What is it about this one? Why are we telling this story? I think that the answer is easy for me. It's the imagery and I've I've worked since two thousand five hundreds of crime stories his and sometimes some just pop others. Just go along the rest of the way this one for me the imagery. I don't remember a case having that and that that's it's really what jumped out at me and I remember those early days and a lot of people were kind of captured by this story when it happened and I think for me what it was is the fact that this happened and on a Monday afternoon in broad daylight and parents always tell their kids go in numbers go together. You're safer that way. These two girls together and none of that matters. I'm coming into the story later later. Then both of you you you were there for for the beginning and when I first heard about this and I started hearing the details details. Wow how how is this possible when I say that I mean there's so many things about this case that don't make sense the biggest of which is why isn't this off the surface you look at what's been put out there by authorities the information available and that includes a picture of the killer a video. The killer audio you of the killers voice. We don't wear this crime happened. We don't win. This crime happened but somehow this has been solved. It's like a giant ink blot and the more you look at it the more you learn about it you see different things. It changes your perspective and five people can look at this this evidence and see dozens of different scenarios. It can be literally it can be whatever you want it to and you know when you look at the photos in if if someone will say oh I see X.. Since yeah sure but I also see why and so. There's no definitive answers to any of these possibilities disabilities one thing we do know. Is that all mysteries. Have Solutions and we're not trying to solve this case. We are trying to make sense of it and we're going to take you there to Delphi over over the course of the next eight chapters and we're going to introduce you to the people who lived this and some of them have never told their story before you're going to hear people who never were asked asked to tell their story and others were far too traumatized until now to be able to talk about it. I think a lot of times in cases like this. There's a lot of focus on the family as there should should be in. There is one of the things that's interesting I think about how we're GONNA unfold. This story is that there's a ripple effect that occurs when something like this happens happens and especially in a community like Delphi. You've got the you know school kids who are trying to wrestle with the fact that there's an empty desk in their class there are teachers who are trying to figure out how. How do I talk to the class? About what just happened. Because they're not prepared so we're going to actually get out into that. Community talked to some of those people in. It's really interesting to hear the how this is affected them in the ripple effect that that's all had on them and we're going to walk some of those key locations as well all in the service of really trying to answer two questions. What the hell happened out there? Can this be solved Leland understand. You won't understand. We want these pieces to make sense and as you come along with us and see those shapes keeps in how they may or may not fit together. You'RE GONNA have your own opinions too and they may change will change. But I you have to know what happened Part one take a jacket. I was at home and I had had posted that they were at the High Bridge and actually told my dad. I was just telling him about how I wanted to go there and I thought it was so beautiful because it is. It's stunning there. And you're just having a conversation about them. Being there February thirteenth thirteenth. Two thousand seventeen was on Monday a warm Monday in fact the kind of winter warm when kids don't wear jackets and parents demand they take them just in case it was the start of the week schools in Delphi would normally have been in session that day but on this day they weren't so abby and Libya had a sleepover. Our story begins Monday morning. With Libya's older sister Kelsey. It was a snow makeup day that day. So that means saw there. Hadn't you've been a lot of snow and we had an extra day that we got off of school so they just made it a long weekend for us so I didn't go into work until like nine or ten in the morning Kerry Tim Libyan Chelsea's mom and just to clear up any confusion. She lives two hundred sixty two miles away in Kentucky. She's he's a tough woman with a tattoo sleeve on her left arm in tribute to her daughter Libby and every morning I'd send Chelsea and libby to good morning have a good day. You know snap chat text message. Something I'm GonNa had done that that morning but the girls on the bus went about my normal getting ready for work and left and libby message to be back snapchat and she was in her bed and I was like doing in bed. It's like nine o'clock or whatever that morning I woke up late and planned to go to my boyfriend's house and help him clean out his truck that they were getting ready to sell and then after we cleaned it out he was going to go to work and I was GonNa win at his house and then go to help go to work myself dating. Get up until probably close to ten or so and they wanted pancakes. This is becky patty before we get too far. We should acknowledge the family. Only dynamics are complicated here. Becky and her husband. Mike are Kelsey and Libya's grandparents and also their legal guardians and you'll hear are a lot from them over the course of this story but Kelsey and Libya's dead Derek also lives with them so derek made them pancakes for breakfast and then later on libby come out she was bored. What can we do? You know Kelsey came out and said that she. She was going to a friend's house and then she had to work. And so I went upstairs and it got started getting ready in our bathroom and I. I'd very much remember her. Opening the door. Really wide with abby behind her as I'm getting dressed and she's like Hake House doing go to hybrids today day and I'm like obviously getting ready to leave. I can't take a day and a little later. I was like I have really been saying. No Oh to her a lot lately so I went downstairs I said hey if you can find a ride and guns says yes I will take you and she ended up asking grandma and grandma atmosphere yes and then she called my dad to pick her up. And that's when I agreed to take her and then she said that her dad would pick her up so I said Okay and that's when they were getting ready to leave and libby was standing at the door. And that's when I told her to that. You need to take a jacket kids. It's Nice but you know who knows you need to take jacket. And that's when she looked at me and said it's okay. Great one gave me that smile and off. They went so when we left was sitting up front and the back neither of them had brought sweatshirts which was really confusing to me so I actually ran back inside and got abby on of mine and Libby had one in my accede since she always rode with me so I made them take those. And then we turned higgins by twenty one pilots up really loud and they had the windows down and we were seeing to it in. It's not a super far drive so we got there. The pretty quick it felt like and then we stopped at the entrance to high bridge and made sure they both have the sweatshirts. I told them to take approach and I loved her and I watched the mock way. ooh THE MON ON HIGH RAILROAD BRIDGE STRADDLES DEER CREEK CREEK. It's technically abandoned. Its Rickety and the gaps between the railroad ties are wide but you can still get there from the trails in the area and a lot of people do. It's all over. INSTAGRAM and snapchat. Chelsea and libby went out there lot. They were both into photography and and staff there. There's they've got all kinds of pictures of that. They used to go out there and take and do so. It wasn't uncommon and we knew that there had been some other kids out there because when she had asked Kelsey had talked to her friend and she'd been she was had was out there as a matter of fact. I thought when they went there Derek called remember. He's Kelsey and Libya's Dad. There's about three thirty he said I'm here at trail head and blow. He's not answering her phone. He said I found lots going on and that he was gonNA walk around and he said you call she answers for you so I started calling and texting and nothing happened so Tara Tara is lives and then so Tara I said hey you you know Utah so we were taking turns trying and texting and calling and and there was no answer or anything so by a little before four. I said we probably need to go look for and Taras Walk. Walk go on and I called Mike or can said Libby. They're out the trails and they're not answering Levy's not answering our phone. We're going to go and start looking for him and he said well. Let me finish up here and I'll I'll be there so I thought well there's two different ways if they decided to walk home and they could have come so we drove both different ways from there that they could have possibly walked and they weren't there so then we got we got to the trail head and parked. There was at that time. There were several cars there and I had the perfect cross the road and kind of the ditch and my phone started during but I wasn't paying attention to it. It was on the other side of the room charging and then it rang again so I was like okay. Something must be wrong so I went over and checked it. It was my grandma and she was freaking out she. She couldn't find libby anywhere and she wasn't answering or foam was really unlike Louis to do something like that. So I I think in my mind I was like. Oh she lost her her phone or she must have fell in on the other side of the bridge. Because I know that they probably cost it Because I know libby but I didn't think the Abbey we would have so. I was a little weird to me but I was. I was sure that there was a logical explanation and newest just some fluke that happened. Liberty's Mom Kerry at work back in Kentucky gets a call while Kelsey and I would talk back and forth with snapchat or Messenger or whatever. It was not normal for her to call me but I was at work. And we're not supposed to be on our phones. So I sent a voicemail and I immediately like hit a text are about to get off work. Call you in just a minute or something to that effect and she sent me a message immediately back that say call me right now. It's it's it's an it's an emergency it's important very important or something so I just without even thinking grabbed up my stuff and clocked out told him I was leaving. I still probably had five minutes is left. Whatever I didn't care I got out to the car and I called her back and she almost funny now she said actually? I think I laughed when she said it's me she said. Have you seen Livy now. I'm like two hundred and sixty fifty five miles away and I kind of know you haven't seen liberty. What are you talking about? And she said mom we can't find libby and and honestly I felt too many. I what do you mean finally Back in Delphi. While Williams is wrapping up a shift waiting tables. Her phone is ringing and ringing and ringing. Anna is Abbie's mom. She had her when she was nineteen and in many ways two of them grew up together and some of those calls are from Libya's grandmother Becky Patty because I'd seen missed calls and that was five five thirty. It was kind of early in the evening and she was like the girls are out on the walk and a whole jar. Bill things is going on. She's like but we're down to sheriff's department. I'm like okay. I'm on my way and checked out the couple of customers I had and I remember feeling a a slight bit like strange but not like overly panicked. I just told them the girls I was like adding libby. were out on a walk doc. Apparently they're missing. I gotta go down to the sheriff's department was like okay. Well let us know what's going on and just make sure everything's Okay and I'm like Yep no problem seal awhile well I'll be back tonight but I'll see what I can do. Abbey's grandmother Diane. Her skin was already having a rough day so I went to work and and when I before I left work on my coworker said you know you don't seem your solve today's everything okay and I said well you know no actually I lost my friend Jamie. Today and the kids called her aunt Janey she never had any children of her own so she kind of adopted our family and just just before I got home in a call and said he just want you to know the girls are missing and I knew what she said the girls. She's talking Abby and Libby because I knew abby condescending night live's family was scattered across Carroll County Kelsey at her boyfriend chases house and Becky on the way to the bridge with Libya. hyung-chol cody like nothing wrong. Nothing wrong. It's just grandma overreacting always then me. And Cody crossed the bridge. ENJ and we're looking in the woods and we couldn't find them anywhere that's when I started to realize something was really wrong. I was yelling her name so that she could hear me and I hope that she did hear US searching What we were? We were doing everything we could to see. If they were down in the areas we thought they would be Mike. Patty is Libya's grandfather and Becky's husband. He's a half an hour away at work in Lafayette. I didn't realize realize that the urgency of it you know it was like okay. Maybe he's not answering the phone or either it went dead or she's out running around with a bunch of kids leads. You know doing whatever but when I did wrap up became straight there and like I said I started walking on the trails as well And then I called the police and within literally within minutes by the time I called him and said Hey we've got a situation in here. We need some help. I got back on the trails and started walking up towards the Freedom Bridge. The Freedom Bridge is a completely separate bridge from the one at the center of this story. Story it straddles. The hoosier heartland highway and isn't far from where Abbie and libby were dropped off by the time I got to the Freedom Bridge. I ran into two officers that that was out there walking as well so they reacted you know just really quick and continued to walk on the trails and then ended up meeting back up at the police station at some point. Because I knew becky was there so we're back here. CNN Center in our production room and bar. I don't know about you but one of the things that's striking to me. When when you hear these family members talking about those first couple of hours is that there are varying levels of concern and I you know I said earlier to someone i? I can't help but think about my parents. If it were me there'd be two very different approaches. My Dad would be calm cool collected. My mother would be in a state of media in some of that is personality. I mean in this case we have Anna. Who isn't real concerned at this point? She's it's a little concerned but she thinks maybe they're lost. It'll all work out. Mike is kind of feeling the same way our item on my way but disarray probably resolve itself. And then you have Kelsey libby sister who is like no. There's something not right here. This is odd and one one of the things that jumps out to me about that. Is that usually the people that are younger and Kelsey has held at this point. Seventeen seventeen. They're usually the ones that are saying like no no no. It's fine mom freaking out. Everything's GonNa be fine so it was kinda striking that her I thought was. There's something not ready. And then you have these two grandmothers Diane a an already having a bad day having lost the family friend and Jamie just that morning to cancer and Becky who for what I understand she's kind of prone to freaking out she's completely freaking out at this point and so this is the backdrop and the precursor to as everybody kind of makes their way way into the woods that evening to start this frantic search. Hey everyone it's Dan simply safe home. Security is the highest level of security. You can have with. Police dispatch up to three hundred and fifty percent faster than a normal burglar alarm with simplisafe. You get comprehensive protection for your home outdoor cameras and doorbells alert you to anyone approaching your home and entry motion and glass break. Sensors guard the inside. If there's a break in they use real video evidence just to give police an eye witness accounts of the crime plus simply safe protects your home from fire water damage and carbon monoxide poisoning to and it's all monitored that are twenty four seven by live security professionals. You can set it up yourself no tolls needed or they can do it for you. It's only fifty cents per day with no uh-huh contracts you'll get free shipping and a sixty day risk-free trial you've got nothing to lose. Go now and be sure you go to simplisafe dot dot com slash d t h so that they know we sent you that simplisafe dot com slash d t h Partout Luby's afraid of the dark You're you're amazed. When he picked me up we went out to the trails? We were sitting there in the truck for a little bit. Can you could just see little lights everywhere. Everywhere there was it was just like the stars in the sky and I said look look at this. Look how many people out here looking. So here's where the Delphi phone tree is about to really take off and people are going to start notifying other people. Outside of the family family friends acquaintances. That something's wrong here and I'm glad you mentioned that phone tree because in a town Mike Delphi. Three thousand people. It does does not take long for phones to start lighting up because Brinda caused Lisa. Who calls you know Christine and before you know it? Everybody in town knows there's something wrong and Delphi's known for this volunteer spirit so you have a lot of people who are now interested people who don't even know these families who are now interested in wanting to come out and help in some way and I think that as these families have kind of moved into that area around the bridge at Becky. Mentions you know seeing all the volunteers volunteers. The more people that get involved in this thing can only ramp up the concern and the panic on the part of the families right because now they've got the whole town of all people posting on facebook two girls missing. It's all over twitter. It's all over instagram snapchat. And this is also where Libya's phone is gonNA come into apply and that's because we learn for the first time about some snapchat photos which we'll get into later but this is kind of the first time we hear about those Things start getting posted posted on social media and of course by the time is now dark and He will start coming out of the woodwork. Around town We we were looking flashlights. were lit up looking up and down alleys and streets and we went all around looking went back out to the trails and there's a night progressed back to the police station. Dropped becky off an intern. Kelsey we're going through. I think some of the social media stuff trying to look computers or ipads or ipods or anything. We had turned to look for information. When did you become come aware of the snapchat photos? It was that evening. I think he's the one that showed me because I didn't have snapchat because she had gone onto work then we had to call her back and so I think she saw it and she said well. I I do this so We had seen it while we were at the police station. It was that night. What did you think of those two images? The image of the Bridge Image of Abbey on the bridge which at the time the only one I saw was the one of Abbey on the bridge so I I didn't I I mean I saw it so we knew that they were at least on the bridge. And you know over so I don't remember what I thought I just. I just know that okay. They were there we we you know. We need to to be searching from there because we know at least they were that far then when you call police how did you see that a nine one one call. No I called the sheriff's department directly to it is right around five o'clock that evening one of my detectives semi attacks and said. Hey Sheriff we have. I have two girls missing that. Are you know partner that live in the county and they were last seen to southside Adelphi near the High Bridge to- blessing be. Where's the sheriff's badge in Carroll County? He's got a shaved head and a powerful moustache. I honestly was not overly concerned and in the beginning because for a number of years anytime we've had a report obey runaway or even a missing senior citizen I I would venture a guess percentage wise. We've probably found are located those runaways or seniors I'd say at least ninety to ninety five percent at the time and so that initial thought enter my mind okay. Well we'll find him you know we'll find him and everything will be fine. The DELPHI fire department is all volunteers. Headed by Chief Daryl starret. He's a rugged man with a strong handshake and in February of twenty seventeen they were raising money for a brand new firehouse chief stare. It was in a meeting about that when his phone lit up. A text. Message From my deputy chief and said that dad two missing girls and they're wanting to know we could help search the area so I've deployed people in trucks to different areas. We didn't know where look in initial they were just missing so kind of deployed Loyd people to different areas looking for the girls driving up and down the streets checking maybe friends houses Just put more boots on the ground and doing good in once. The guys got out of the station. I was called to the sheriff's office and we'd set up a joint incident command Delphi. I Mayor Shane Evans was twenty seven years old in two thousand seventeen. He's one of America's youngest mayors and when the search escalated. He was two towns over at a city council meeting. I drove the twenty five to thirty minutes up to Delphi. I can't remember. I talked to the fire department and I went to the jail. Dispatch edged county unit. Some of the city units At one point I went out there when the fire department searching for the girls at that point got some Equipment available we have wastewater department has called four wheeler something bigger than a golf cart and smaller than a gator. So we we made that available to county and city Eunice working that night if anything came up. Here's Delphi fire. Chief Daryl Stare at again you know just point would start. started getting a sense of urgency. Now Mind you now pitch black. We focused on the creek. We focused on roadside. We've focused focused on everything we could with ball. We had trying to paint himself and the information we got was okay. The cell phone pinged off of this top. What does that mean well? It could be within a two mile radius of this hour and so I said okay. We need to search all of Delphi which which includes dirk the wabash two miles. How is a good ways? Sheriff Tobe lesson be of course is that particular day. It was unseasonably warm but as has it drew closer to evening you know began to feel a little cooler that good evening. Obviously and so being near a stream the deer creek the temperature of the water during that time period was obviously cold hold that rough terrain so to say very very rural part of even just right outside of the Senate say limits you know immediately it turned into very remote terrain area. Obviously there's there's hills and valleys and things like that out there in in that evening you know easily we could have had one hundred people searching and then as as you knock on the door and say well then they joined the search and so the entire town was searching in your own way. That's part of being in a small town. Everybody knows everybody. And if you don't know you I know of them and everybody wants to hell so we looked came. We looked and we walked. We were focused on the bridge area and we had people on four wheelers. We had farmers in the area. The community was look. We searched till maybe eleven thirty twelve. Oh clock and I had met up with the sheriff and discussed with him and chief mullins this look we. We've blanketed wanted. Neil this area I also feel like we could probably check it off and oil. Yeah I agree you know. And and that's the point you have to do that as the news of Abbey's disappearances spreading concerns are growing. We got the call from Abbie's mom and then I was texting Kelsey on and off all night. Eric Gibson is one of Abbey and Libya's closest friends and people confused her and Libby because they look so much alike she facetime them the night right before everybody was checking different trails on Delphi just to make sure so we came up here and we're back down. We even saw the firefighters back doc there and we talked to them for a while and then they called off the search and so we went home. But I'm glad we did because as I texted Kelsey right before and I'm like Hey I know you guys checked around the bridge but I know other people have to do you need those extra is kind of glad we didn't you know we were two two of Libya's best friends the other person with me was one of his best friends and I was happy and so I'm Kinda glad we didn't Cynthia. Rossi is another close friend of theirs and she didn't like where this was heading. I think when they started started mentioning the police bringing in dogs from Chicago. 'cause I know because from living there that a lot of bad things happen in there and they always have just certain system set up if something is to go wrong in. Its very professional city when it comes to crime and and dealing with crime in they have everything you could ever imagine when it comes to dealing with that sort of thing so when they said that they are bringing in dogs from Chicago as like. Oh they're going to other states they're contacting people all across the world to try to find them. That isn't a good sign. Yeah definitely worried And that night I knew because I went ahead and stayed with my other friend that night we were going to go to school together in the morning I was terrified and she wasn't so much a friendly face time to like was but like they were only terrified because if they're still out there they're cold they're cold. They're scared if one one of them's hurt and really we just thought they really were just lost and scared and as it approaches midnight a controversial decision is made and for people following the case. It's still being debated her good and bad on that comment before I guess I will say it was a joint decision in that. I consulted with many emergency response leaders in our community and so at some point I guess what I will the way I will oh put. It is the organized effort by emergency services was temporarily called off. Yes but it's there. Were still people I know out. Even though they were not this early under our leadership. I'll I'll put it that way just for people who you you wonder why you know what was sort of Calculus. The rationale behind that decision. There's our producer Dan who was in Delphi with us. The search that pointed obviously a had not been fruitful the other thing was limited at that time very limited resources and when I say basically additional lighting is one thing that came came to mind that we didn't have access to at least again at at those hours and so I I would as I recall. I think a lot of boiled down onto a male building of resources and being able to continue on we were at high bridge. We had walked high bridge and we had bought under hybrid. I I had guys climbed down to the top of the pillars of high bridge. I had guys doing things they should not have been doing. But we were going to find something we had scoured the banks of the creek. We the hillsides a you get to a point. You know that you've walked over two and three and four times in that area. You kind of feel like you have to put a check mark on it so we come to that point and it it like. I said it was a tough thing to do but as volunteer party. Also have to look out for the individuals that you command because they have jobs they have livelihood. That's the tough part of it. Because of the chief you have to be able to look out for them at some point and they will stay out Dr Until Sunup if you told them. That's what you're doing but at some point you have to be realistic. We have turned every rock. We could think of in this area mm-hmm and it's that time of year. You know the ground cover. It isn't now where you've got weeds. Four foot tall. You could see not a good ways even in the dark we have. Of course we have lights like no other so we came to that point that we need to check US bought off and then look at maybe coming back fresh in the morning. And let's see what happens. Abbie's Mom Anna is now starting to worry. Remember a one moment when Becky had said ladies afraid of the dark she would not choose to be out here if something was wrong and that kind of hit that you know. Something's up and just being who the girls were and their friends. They would've stayed together. That was is the concern after that. They weren't the kids that just didn't you know answer their phones and didn't respond or take off or anything like that so that was a rough off night and one of the things that were striking to me about. Our conversation with Anna is what she just said a short bit ago. which was that night? It's dark there. Searchers the flashlights. Everybody's looking and she remembers becky saying Libya's afraid of the dark and she wouldn't be out here by choice right right and it was. It was really striking because libby kind of became a little girl in that moment but libby was fourteen. She's still very young. I was afraid of the dark as the kit. So yeah that when Anna said that that really touched me and it it really made Libby feel very real to me in that moment to think about those girls. They're not out there by choice and everybody is coming to that realization and yet the controversial the decision is made to call off the official part of the search because this is an all volunteer fire crew and they have fulltime jobs if they're not making progress because they don't have the right equipment they don't have the lights they need. They don't have whatever they need in the moment they need to go home and sleep. And we've talked about this a lot. You know calling off the search doesn't necessarily mean everybody went home. I mean these guys are volunteer firemen. There's two missing kids gets in a small town. They're not just going to go home. And some of these people knew the families and so right you had some of them stain and then you had other people who showed up to help who who stayed so the decision to call the search. We've talked about it a lot like how that character like what that looked like. That may have been a situation where chief start was just like I can't pay the overtime and it was. It was a bunch of people who made the decision that it wasn't all on one person but yeah and there's still stuff going on things are still happening out there a bit. That also gave them a chance to sort of get ready for the next day Hey everyone it's Dan by now. You're probably getting a sense that we spent a lot of time in Delphi. Oh Fi and talk to a lot of people. The great thing about that is that we're able to tell a lot of the story in the voices of the people who lived at the bad part of that is that I have more than we can actually use. We have about thirty hours a tape that we need to get down into about eight hours this show but there's one thing that we didn't want one to lose in any of that and that's getting a sense of who Abbey and libby were and now and then we want to bring you moments that really bring that out in. Here's here's our first this one. This is from Anna Williams. Abbie's mom the girl behind that cat and freckles was actually pretty irritated to have to go to yet. Another wedding and baby shower our year because there was going to be another wedding baby shower because that seemed to be our family's routine but at the same time. She was kind and considerate. Considerate and loving a hand was amazing. I was very blessed to be her mom. Her headstone has a quote on the back that says though she little she is fierce and she was assist she might not have been forward but man when she decided on something she kinda did digging a little bit about things and from her the youngest moments she really did not have a lot of fear about heights or anything she when she may remind to do something she really did go. Oh for it She was a good friend. She was best friend who a lot of people and I have a lot of stories of folks have come to me saying the abbey stuck stuck up for them when nobody else would girl had a good character tour she would big things the next chapter. We'll get to know Libya little bit part part three thirty seconds later the night before we thought they'll show up their friend's house. They didn't call in who knows the next day is a little bit different so it's been absolutely sleepless night for these families. Some of them went home to try. Try to get a few hours of sleep other state out at the scene to continue searching but nobody got any rest at night. No and you know. We've we've seen enough missing children's stories and you always hear parents talk about when the sun goes down and going to sleep not knowing where your children are and how horrible that is and so at this point in this story. You've got a number of people who are all feeling that way absolute and then you know when you look at the time line in this case the search picks up again the next morning morning but I remember looking at the time to talk to you about it and saying why did they start at ten. Am that's a little bit late. Absolutely and they didn't have much of a choice. There was fog in the area they had requested. QUESTED A helicopter from Indiana state police. It couldn't even take off because of the weather conditions so the official search delayed. But still there's people out there looking looking for these girls during that time and that's when the fire chief gets a really important phone call from the police chief Dirty and and I think it was six o'clock five thirty. I don't know things were kind of fuzzy my phone and it was chief moans loans and he said chief we have about three hundred volunteers coming to help search and we're using your fire station as a command post. I came back in started today. I had a couple people from my work. Come in to do nothing but registered Bolan tears. I know three hundred and the people that free lance and don't check in so we had the people and people and people mm-hmm from tippecanoe county offered up Mobile Operation Center. We brought it in and said it out at the bridge area so that we could more readily coordinate people matt area and we covered everything that we had covered the night before both covered it in a daylight and cover too many people. Here's Kelsey again libby sister. The next morning learning we all got up me and my mama got up and left about seven thirty ish in everybody met at the fire station and the fire fire department separated us into groups and my family actually all got separated so my GonNa tear were in one group and I was in a group with my dad and my other sister Anne few other people and my group got sent to high bridge. Todd glad is the pastor at Delphi United United Methodist Church and Mike in Becky Patty or part of his congregation. He'd seen libby just days before I contacted the sheriff who attends church and just said where do you want me. He asked me to come out of the command center so my role command center was basically to talk with people as they came in as they volunteered. I signed in volunteers. Volunteers course mortgage spe- connecting listening talking to first responders looking at maps wondering even spent about an hour with another clergy friend who went in search section of the creek in behind some houses just going over areas had been checked but wanted to check once again. Many many people were wanting to come out even from communities nearby the Logan Support the Frankfurt the Monticello as well but of course. You saw a lot of people that you know because you know many people in this community. So is your mood on Tuesday morning different than it was Monday. Night when you're out at the scene mood Tuesday morning Something's not right Master Todd's concerns are growing and the search is reaching its peak so we had helicopters up. They were searching Creek. We had kayakers on the creek because some those areas. You're not gonNA see except up for from the war is so the train is is rough when you off of the trail system. It's Willard's for this area area cornfield. It's a creek bed so even on foot in the daytime it would was tough to search. The search continues continued to turn up nothing. Share of Toby. Who's a veteran cop? Felt this thing. Shifting obviously is time continued to go along they again had that thought in my mind about okay this is a like majority of what we end up with in this counting being able to find individuals individuals. Be Out some point. I thought this yeah. I'm not real sure about this. One Kelsey was in a search party at the bridge. When the first sign of the girls was found a quarter mile away? We heard somebody yell up the hill the they found a shoe and at the moment I knew exactly what they were wearing i. I couldn't remember what the sweat shirt was my sister's wearing until later but I knew exactly what shoes they were wearing. And so they held up that there was a black doc nike and I knew it was levies and then About thirty seconds later somebody else said that they found them. I'll never forget this part. Unfortunately Chief Steve Mullen and and I and I believe the Delphi. Mayor Mayor Shade Allen's Fire Chief Starts we were Kinda in the back part of the the fire department and remember. I believe it was chief. MAHLON GOTTA call said we've we've located them And they're you know they're no longer with us. It was the end. No one wanted. The bodies of being libby are found in a culvert a quarter mile from the bridge and now a search is becoming an investigation because of the number of people we wanted to get authorities to the site before we put out Anne blanket notes so so we were kind of played coy to protect the people to protect the scene to protect a family so we kind of went downstairs and played Coy and we were waiting to give notice. We wanted to family to not find find out from anyone but authorities. Of course you started getting people we heard this. We heard that you've heard more than and sometimes you have to lie people to protect themselves. I'm sorry wrong law. You've heard more than we know. And and at some point I believe it was DIV Molins came down and said well we have seen secured. Let's go ahead and let people know so we can terminate. Let's get people out of here. How made the announcement that the girls have been found and it was not to a good end and thanked? Everybody was there tried to be that guy that when all else is troubling around around somebody has to keep it together and as by making the announcement of the entire lot was full of people. There's a stream of state trooper cars going by the and it's just surreal. Knew they were going to nine what they were confusing. And what. Those state troopers were facing was a scene so disturbing. It would stay with them forever. It was something different. Something new new the horror of which which shatter lives on Delphi and grabbed the attention of the world. It down the hill is written and produced by Barbie McDonald Dan Cemetery which in Me Andrew I. I didn't with original music and scoring shoe Sir and production support from Michael Dudley entailing chassis or associate producers. If you WANNA see the people places and things we've been talking about visit our website at down the hill podcast dot COM Sherry Selby's h ellen senior production manager. Brian Bell is senior director of programming and Tyler Moody is the Vice President of Warner Media podcast network and especial thanks to the people of Delphi and the members of law enforcement who are in charge of solving this crime and of course most important of all a big. Thank you to you. We appreciate you listening
"Three two one and we're live. This is Ted. Hicks late night parents ways to follow. The show is late night. PARENTS DOT COM. We're GONNA try and do this weekly with true armor. Chew arms in the building how you doing. What I what I? This. For a minute, I was just like well. Wait a minute that lose. They're losing on audio. But? No, not at all. I got set my chair Amara. Should. That's good so as usual. WanNa thank you for. Joining us as We do this nightly well. It's not yet a nightly. PODCAST but I would like for it to be eventually A nightly half hour show maybe. Goal. Goal is four nights a week. In a seven. Day period thirty. There's only two hours. That's ought to ours which I think is totally doable. Totally doable. So, would we get started? True. We had a great discussion last week where. You talked about a lot of things I disagree with you. But you. You Stayed The course you got you may. Start by apologizing for the. Holidays got a bunch of topics. I'm going to go into the first one warner media. And I will say this much every time there's a merger. There's a demerger. So every time. There's an acquisition and merger. Within side of a year after that merger happens, it's a demerger meaning. You start to look at the redundancy between multiple operations and you say hey, you know what I'm GonNa shut this amount. To press secretary. Price our goods to pump. Vice Presidents into right exactly. Right began to kill off the redundancies in your. So whether it's back office whether it's accounting and payroll HR. Knowing needs a dual of anything, but what more has done? It dropped about an hour and a half ago the the John. that. Fire less than maybe. Whereby you can? Buy You buy me. Yeah. Oh, okay So actually. What happened was the C. N. N. center in Atlanta. The infamous CNN center Atlanta is going to be going for sale. And Yeah. Yeah, the so what they're doing. Is You know Y Y which is also smart, they consolidating. So. That news was was dropped some your. The left leaners in the the right leaners. Some type of comment. Everyone has a comment about CNN. Of the work at home environment. I think. John Building. I doubted I think it's more on the lines where they have redundant buildings. You had a Time Warner. and. You had a. what's her name? In. Previously before the acquisition you know when you have multiple properties. You GotTa look at it and say okay. We're leasing this building versus where. They merged. This is this is you missed a whole bunch? Hey, your audio is coming in choppy and I'm not sure if it's year lady your your buds. Wait so I'm happy. So I'm not sure if it's more on the lines of. I'm not sure if it's more on the lines of. Yeah, he hear you loud and clear. He loud and clear so I'm not sure if it's more on the lines of the multiple buildings and this just like I said there's just redundancy so. So you? You sound so much clearer. Though the not well I'm lacking, destroy the buds, but yeah I normally use it for running heavy been running in a while. I could've gotten better. use the for actual better communication, okay? Different running. So I next topic I just wanted to mention that with. would CNN I will say this much in L. A.. You can still eat inside a restaurant. You can get on people at the gym. But you can't go hiking outside. On July, the fourth of July. All beaches will be closed due to the alarming of the coronavirus yet does that make any sense that you can be in a close like a gym or a restaurant, but you can't be in the great outdoors hiking me. Like you can't be at the beach I, mean it doesn't make any sense. It really doesn't make any sense. I'm not sure. And and bars before I close beaches, and I would have closed restaurants, bars and beaches by now. It just weird how they I don I wish I understood the larger. And said these people in power would explain to me. They're logic rather than just dictating. where I think this doesn't make any sense, you'd be in a restaurant. And you can be I did yeah, but you can't be on a hiking trail. I. Dunno it it kind of defies logic because you even think you could be outside, but you can't be inside, right? Yeah Yeah Godly. Yet in the simplest way exactly so I'm not really sure. As. We as I've talked about on the last couple of podcasts the fact that masks are. Politicized. At versus where whether you wear one where you probably should wear one versus the people the Karen all the above that I have opted not to wear one league I mean we constantly see. The you know the twitter timelines are just. Filled with people just losing their minds altogether, but I hopefully. I'm hoping before this weekend before the holiday weekend. The federal government comes out and says and I know this is a big reach that. Mass for all man's for everyone mandated down the line. It's not going to happen now. Because everytime like look Audi with the head of the disease, same everyone should wear math, but trump would like. Try to wear a mask. So you're not gonNA tell him. Who is your boss that? He must wear once. Right no matter what state he goes, I. Don't care what the governor says. The governor is not going to write him a ticket or denied him entry he's. The president writes all this grand talk of. Nano man at some of. The trump. Is it always wrong? First of all everyone should wear masks. Everyone should off. You can mandate it though. Right and Guilt works okay. Threats Work Yeah I guess. But at the end of the day you can't threaten the president as a governor or mayor. You know I'm just freaked out so I always wear masks above trust some people just. For whatever reason we did show so the reason why you wear a mask because you're freaked out because of what what Tony thousand she says or you're freaked out about the rate of transmission. Overall people dying in the sense that this this seems like something that you don't WanNa get and it's. It's such a A. Not just a fastball cross a plate, but it's it's I mean. It's just. All the stories you hear about it down, miserable will both know people who've had it. And we know a ton of people. Yeah. We we know people who've passed because of it. Yeah, exactly in it sounds it just sounds like. A horror show right separates family. You should take it seriously suck. Go quickly pass and remember. We had this conversation that he show before, and I was like the black death was around some six hundred. Seventy seventy years ago now that. It hung around Europe for like three years. It wasn't gone in a wave of our cycle of. A few days like telling us and we're. We're pretty big population, man, three hundred plus million of us. The into to put that in perspective as only I think. Seventy million British people I. Think like forty million Australians. Right has got to be like. I mean it's not I. Mean we're? We're big population not. So because you have a lot of land running, you know so I don't know we. I think this could be. is to be really. Wants to wear them, for. Really really bad. It just keep being ridiculous about it, but if we can get to through it if everyone just agreed that it was serious and they didn't want to get it if they. Neighbor is right if they just said this is bad. I don't want to get it so I. I'm going to wear them. ASS, right. Be Selfish in that regard. That behavior. That's action. Protect somebody Versus a guy. Who's you know a symptomatic like Dale Hughley? Who's doing standup shows in in like nightclubs full of people right it's. Just I, if I was present at that show, I would immediately go out that and I mean that next day. To the nearest location to go be tested, yeah. I would've sat him on. The totally I will do talk though lawyer. Really. He he a lot of people. Yeah, but he. Stage, you opted to pay your money. While I go see the show now optics posed by to symptomatic, or you have some fear that some doubt you're supposed to take precautions as not to affecting body. If you're venue is open isn't up to you to make sure that the L. Hughley isn't infected. Right I mean so. This is America's the Land Litigation. Right. Warrior offered enough. To know that this is bad. Right I? Mean people ask for comedy didn't actually exposed to anything. You signed up to be exposed if you left the house. Oh I think that's GonNa be a hard stretch, right? I go back to your your mandatory comment. I don't know why. People in leadership have a problem with saying using that word mandatory. Especially in the in America a serious situation like this, this is America and you're in alien in alienable rights as opposed to be just that fright. Give not forget able to take them away from anybody and they're taking away all the time. Your right to vote is always muck around with. So Yeah You're you're supposed to have? A right to bail, you can afford. And people from the ghettos who do a granted the that you are atrocious, they still should be able to get a bill that they can afford, and they never do two million dollar bails, but somebody you donate. I mean if it. If you in a white collar crime. You'RE GONNA. Get a low amount. But but the thing is. If you're doing a white collar crime and they catch you. Your bail should be what you can afford so jeff, bezos. got into a bar fight in craft. Somebody over the head and he got simple assault. Rifle of maybe not simple salt, but like I'm you know assault in the third degree where you could do some jail Tom to judge like what you gotTa jet and everything you could get Outta here. He's still get bail since he's worth. A hundred billion dollars bail right because he can afford it. Or if you didn't want to let him out of jail, you gotta give them a bail that he can't afford it to like. I, said urban kids all the time. Your bill is three million dollars, which for being able to come up with ten percent of that and you know you've only ever been. You know a project dwelling person. Even if the cops guy wrong, and they're letting people out of jail all the time of year, so getting it wrong. Even if they got it wrong, those people at the time have a jail. They could jail a Bagel, but afford so my my point is at all these rights. Even eligible rights always snatched away from regular. Just both have a right to. To All in worship as you please, but that's not really the case. Some people want to sacrifice animals. We don't allow that. Right that's. Where they cut the head off chicken forever. We don't allow people. Try to go. To sue the Muslims wondering Bell's not bells do a Muslim prayer calls at. They all get up in and that. Excuse me by mother listening but give the chance that they do at the crack of dawn, and they sued, and it was like now, and they were like well. You have bells. carnival-like like. Bells have been in the fabric of this society since the founding of the society. Right before with America, you're not GonNa Undo Bells, but at the while at the same time something that grandfathered in, but we're not gonNa let you. Do, X., Y. and Z which causes, and it was for religious reasons, and they had a problem with, but people also said we don't let the Mormons have nine wise right on the. We put limits on what what you can do, so you know it's inevitable. Rights always run up against about me going and now and now we're protesting and people think that they have. A right to protest and gathering. You're seeing that the cops telling you that that's that's up for debate depending on who is. You know who giving you orders as. How they should engage the populace and the populaces right to redress their grievances against the government. So, let's let's bring it back to mask and so we saw Mike. Pence make some comments. The vice president we. We're hearing in Jacksonville. Florida their mandating mask. Right the GOP convention is going to be you know was originally slated for North Carolina Charlotte North. Carolina is now being pushed to Jacksonville Florida But you know I I was reading the survey. I think it said something like. Fifty eight or sixty eight percent of the people that were polled. I don't remember the name of the poll, but fifty fifty to sixty. Five sixty eight percent said they were concerned about the GOP convention, which is going to be indoors, right? which is going to house center, seventeen or nineteen thousand people. that could be another super spreader incident. Yeah? but we're starting to see various members of the GOP. The Democrats have already have already said that. They're going to wear masks and you. They've been walking around with masks gone. When they can't cloth masks right, but but now you're seeing certain. GOP members with mass verbalizing that hey is time to wear a mask. while. Would you be surprised at this? Little Oil! Pardon it was worthwhile, holdaway. Three months ago on the Republican characters skipped out on Washington Bob. San that the virus Butler threat, they all agreed not to show up in Washington for votes this other stuff and they all went off to their giant houses away from crowds and public. You know what I'm saying, well they. Onboard what would amass? They took the ball went home. When it was time to vote on the stimulus. The first birthday today they tried to pass the lower they could both from home. Remember that and apparently applaud where you have to vote in person in the United States Congress and they dropped to subvert that because they want to be within ten feet of each other when this whole thing broke so now. What is it three, six, nine, twelve, hundred and twenty days later three or four months later. Everybody's all of a sudden talked about. We should all wear masks well. Yeah, because when you, you have a hundred and twenty five thousand Americans that are. Arguing that that their judgment is always sketchy AF is on. His arms that. I mean I. We just saw I'm taking it seriously. I think they're they're so we do incur. We all do something else I mean, but it's different. It's different. 'cause I'm here in left-leaning New York. You know the the liberal liberal capital ever love. Thought? Of you know liberal capital of the world where we all wear masks. And we all run around here and we you know we listen to the governor, and the all liberal all all the above, so it's good that it seems like they're a little late little slow, but they're finally catching on. The. All America shouldn't always be late in slow. Well. Give them any more credit for that. Even the latent slow, they collect the check a giant check. They do when they say forty years the ridiculous. All these sinister character remain in action. LESS TO MY ASS! That's what got Hillary Clinton to be. President right lesser two evils. I love? Argument you say guide. Her to be. President less of two evils argument. Does watching these president right now. Because enough people like whatever lady. The whole thing, but the thing that I think about it. Being a camera thing, but the thing in two thousand sixteen because they know what what the name of the was right. Angry crying women at the the the democratic. Nominating Committee. Of Clinton's on election night while they're all at the javits crying at the Jefferson. We remember we remember come on. Cut The cut the ladies. Some slacks cut them some slack slack. People tell you will leading up to that that this was a bad bet. And you like I like to speak to the manage about my presidential candidate. And now look at us. That's where we are. You know and there's not does not just Karen to a white woman. I wanted to say there's got to be naval black women. Who Do this stuff to write his name for a Spanish women. Do this upset to write. It. Can't automated gotta be a popular name like that form. Let's leave the Karens alone less. Affluent Affluent Apple, but not always the AFLA is this is. On the man that served society tells you. Everything you want. And sometimes you know. You're alive. Tell you this is not bad for us, and you don't care what your allies have to say. And you lead us to destruction because the society takes, they're word about other people were adds more weight to your. Your. Concerns and other people concerns. People aren't going with Hillary Clinton's a bad candidates. You can't cry now for years later that you know. Your bet did not pay off you. Can't blame other people. You Bet calling. People told you it was was not a good bet and not hear Joe Biden. He will tell you the same thing luckily Bahrain. This H. each every pie, Tash. You're on, you somehow slip into Joe. Biden Bill. We're not. GonNa Shoe. You mentioned Joe Biden like. We. Don't have them on a slave I I know I'm not I'm not. I'm not going into your body. I'm saying the idea that people told you thing then like people telling you the sang not same thing, but the same kind of concerns about a different thing now is the same it's it's part. Two of this movie is the sequel. That's all I'm saying. I'm not going in a Joe Biden and his history. 'cause you know could do that but I'm saying people should doing every. Let me. Don't even get me started on. So I can go back the last ten podcast. Yes, we've done, and then you mentioned you've mentioned. Joseph R Biden Junior. He nobody know right. Time I'm all. In the ranch become progressively longer each signed about Joseph Biden Junior. And if the rent dollar durant's aren't true, but land. Well well, I did not say that the ranch aren't true. I will give credit where credit's due right. But I will say some how east time we get. We are. I'm I'M A. I'm a loyalist Right I'm a true believer in in like. Talking opportunity coming coming up to. To what the next best step, but eight five hundred! Vendor the next. Hold on and find the next spects set. You also have to know what your problems are, and once you know what the problems are you have to name those problems and America. Never does is say song, so it's actually the problem and then gets rid of song, so the people who are the problem hang around for third year than politics making. About that's not true. People are being canceled right now every day. Every that's online. That's a new thing and it's only been about four or five years now. Wait. Cancel years ago maybe four years. I'm not talking about me, too, I'm talking about. Canceled, cable. Series Yeah Right yes, that will go well every every once in a while. Someone would get canceled, but it wouldn't be at the frequency. As. In you know. Within the last five years out some, so we'll got cancelled other than the last four years. We'll get away with being drug addicts. Intriguing driver, the women, the only people who they were camping sports play black sports player's. Name me at some. Hollywood person got cancel. Other than this stuff. He thought that I can't. They didn't castle. WHO's the director? They didn't cancel him. So suicide squad I mean for from Guardians of the Galaxy. Note there. Me Too, me too kicked off every everybody's tweets and became a I think he had. His tweets David David Gun gun but gun. Off. Of in the last three and a half four years like the METOO. Thank I'm saying before the ME, too. Thing kicked off. You know you had people who in Hollywood would run a file and they I mean Robert Downey Jr famously still around right. Well it's. The right thing I get involved with that. I guess it wasn't. It wasn't favorable for these young actors and actresses. The say something like a different type of culture. But my point if they did they come back from it then. Nobody was seriously castled in Hollywood before this needs to happen and the only people who were being Catholic before them. I'm sure I'M Ray Rice yeah. sporty. And Marie. Rice stuff was just in baseball that that was hard to watch your rewrite. Stuff is hard to watch I. Know about saying I know. HOW HARD IT IS WATCH! We're also talking about the they were wrong. They were canceled and they didn't. Cancer people in Baseba- A WHO's the guy who? Lived with his mom forever, and then got scouted and went into I. WanNa say the Cincinnati reds he got all touted up and became like a a substance abuse problem in Josh Howard. Howard is. Yet. Since it was Texas Rangers. He's a Texas Ranger and he got traded to the. Today Angels Right. Howard liberal the Hamilton Josh Hamilton. Josh Hamilton was the baseball player had. Substance Abuse Problems. But the multiple chances his right, they didn't give him multiple chances now. He canceled themselves. Wears. Injuries your kill himself yet, but my point is nowadays. They were council him and he didn't get cancelled. Then known I cancelled then. Following! But I think we relating. None of leading. The issue. Were conflicting issues because his issue wasn't like he was a womanizer anything he had a substance abuser weeks our, but he's writing multiple chances to blah. Have a substance abuse problem right right? Well because he had a skilled. You gotta understand with sports. You have its skill if you can run. Jump. Swing swing a bat the they're gonNA. Give you multiple chances, thanks. Dwight gooden and down strawberry. How many chances where they give? My point might coin okay, until about three and a half years ago, maybe three years ago, nobody was getting canceled. For other than like going to do some research shows your scandal brags and Sansone, so it was doing Xyz, and it was good to have the essentially haram going check the archives of the enquirer. About people getting, cancel award this this now I mean it's it's run. Run among people would generally be drug addict. And you would just watch them slide down the rungs, and they would eventually hit rock bottom. no-one just canceled. I think of. And I've mentioned to you, too. I mentioned him to you before Harold for junior. Out How helpful for junior hitting was either got sick of him. No, no can our harrow for junior. Something came up. There was an allegation made. This guy was a partner at right, but that was me to. Anchor Solomon Smith Barney or ACCOMMODATED ON MSNBC right. Yes, he's. From Kentucky say professor. taught adjunct professor at Nyu, or, and then all of a sudden, so all of that the the three or four different revenue streams boom everything I shutdown. Unless I'VE GOT IT WRONG Everything came out. It was unfounded. Yeah. Well guess what. Job that. So now he's A. He's a Mario former congressman with a good name. Right, but When these allegations came out. Boom one-two-three everything you lose everything, go home, you you, Barry. You have a young child. You've got some explaining to do Lucy. You know. And, now as mounted, have you founded? It was founded. It reminds me of the Johnny Depp where rubber like Oh man. He beat that woman amber. Turns out that the whole thing with a sketchy Taleb. Was it. I didn't really follow it. Yeah. It looks it looks to. Well. I'm I'm not one of these teams E. People I'm more of a positive person, but so don't hold me to this, but go look it up for yourself, but it looks like He also had tapes of her. Trying to him in the hitting her and call him all this. Off, being more of a problem than necessary and. You know been off Manson being ridiculous and. He was admitted she was mad. He cut his guitar hand and he had to go. Hold on hold hold on hold on with he or with she on milkshake. Apparently, she was on medication. She was a difficult starlet apparently. She. She i. think she do something more him or something and cut his guitar hand. Does? But by the time, as by the time the cops show up if the woman is crying and you're not bleeding. You're going to jail. That's the way that works. As, you said this a safety because they were just kinda go y'all need to calm down. We don't WanNA. Come back here and then have to come back here the answer for like. Not mentioned that way after murdered off the family. Before we go to the next topic I just WanNa. Do PSA everyone. Take time out. Take five seconds before you bought the leave the house in the morning or the afternoon or evening. If you work the night shift, grab yourself. A mask doesn't need to be in ninety five mask. Some type of face covering put it on. Put It on start. Stop the spreading because this is almost your mug. W You got someplace. Do something take the time. I. Leave them in the car. Aleve additional mask in the car just in case. Slower! I leave a pair of gloves to pair of gloves in the car, just in case. I E, we wouldn't ask anyone to go to that extent, but. Take the time out, look. I'm a game right so. In all these Games, they taught me that one used to be prepared right so. At the very base level of this is I'm be prepared by having a mask and wearing gloves. SANITIZER values. And if the. Blitzer there hand sanitizers football, and keep putting all that stuff in my hand I rather watch my hands at my house I. Wear Gloves. Come home. I wash. My hands wants to not touch my own stuff. That's my thing, but yeah, it's. I mean. I don't know just although hand sanitizing. Just Nagata, washing, midway just. With your hand, which is, you still can't find wipes. You still can't find clorox wipes now. And you blink your eyes. It's going to be July and it's been three months. Good thing all these people using all these wipes Good right, which will be combating germs and penicillin does work so maybe which Kinda like. Maybe this is the product of that. Right. Maybe we have somehow lost our each of the natural world here. To the alternative on on table, so I mean. I put up the name Dan Jones because this guy is being dragged on twitter. Tell me what difference. Tell what he did. That was different. then. When there's a bipartisan law ore order put together that he did versus our our our favorite politicians from both sides on both sides of the aisle. Well I think his problem was. He got caught. Been Duplicitous quite frankly. He. He was founded that he was hoping Jared Kushner. Formulate this bear cop policy. From from the trump administration. Ahead when it came, it was week. Sauce and everybody would like what the Hell is this? And then he came out while CNN. Channel that he he's A. With a column accommodated on a that. He's not a cocky contributor. Contributor that he he's heard Saturday show. He's got a show and I used to be like monthly or biweekly. Well, he's still on the heat. Somehow get a check of those guys and they them up with any. Expert opinion on. Race relations this. So social justice issues right right, so he selfie justice, so he's up there He doesn't talk so just on politics. Anyway so he's up there, seriously spang! that. Is a good sorry. It's better than I think we should give it a shot essentially paraphrasing on CNN without telling you that he crafted. and had a hand in doing it. And now he's trying to to you so once. This came out people were. Not Happily in rightfully sewn they they call them all sorts of off. Turncoats traders. But he's done. Take fire he's. He's done work before Jared Kushner. Been All's where. Derek and That's the thing. With. That, that's. You know. I don't want to say that. That's the opposite of you, but someone. That's not in your airspace. I think that's a good thing to be able to work. That's not. The problem. Solved the problem how people say it is? You didn't close any of this and wants the grind. Claim to be honest brokers and coming across as on like, said duplicitous in and and more standard functionaries for political parties. In the end. He looked like a functionary. Can Make I think he missed. When you're going around the basis, he missed one base. Gave more than the Bolger escape enough to know what the delay of the land is right, but if he gave a full disclosure, would we be a conversation? Was this. Conversation if he gave him full disclosure. Yes, yes, you think so. Yes, police misconduct is on the no on the ballot is whole table. The whole place is discussed now. Be. Well, you just ask me hold on. The police misconduct. Off. Off Is. Noble. But if he had said I. Spoke with administration and try to come up with a jumping off point for how we can solve this problem, no problem with that. Boldest. Said this that she. Only had if he miss, he only missed. One Base I think if he had did a full disclosure, they would still said okay. This executive order intimate swimming is. Look won't base running around and you're still out. Yes. You're still that's yes. Yes and apparently. This is the first time we missed one base. Although! I mean like I said I've seen him on TV. Interview Jared Kushner on his show. And that's fine. That's fine. It's not like he jared Kushner had a conversation at a private restaurant where those were. No one knew it. then. Then that will be a problem, but I mean. You keep talking about. Some light. You know is is the best disinfectant and. You never opened the window. So what's going on here? And when when when we find out, it will always finding out somebody arising star is sort of trying to. Do you worry the curry favor? Right it's just. Look! If he had worked for the trump administration administration that be better. Right you've never had the imagine that. He was coming out a young Democrat working in from trying to bring side to get. You may not have agreed with them. You may have disagreed with him even working there, but at least you knew. What he was trying to do, and you know could quit anytime. Say while I try not crazy or say the whole eight years ago. It wasn't as bad as I thought. We made some good inroads right? None of them's what happened. What happened was he got together with this guy behind closed doors. Together this. Ridiculous, you know A. Series of of. What should and shouldn't be polite. New Police procedures, and then took it out and pass it off as As what? What was going to be progress? To a populist that is absolutely had it with the game that you play with them. Right and even as all this going on, they killed the macgyver forgot his name. It was. Coming home from the grocery store right injected him with. Ketamine Alliance Wayne. Eligible claim, thank you alive McLean. The names comes of veterans. Affairs Forget you forget entrust me. I mean this. This whole environment is is just. Because people only March and Asi when they expect you to come across once. They don't think you're gonNA come across. I think it gets worse. Then, it's like fucking what you for. I'm not trying to. I'm just trying to make sure problem for you. I respect. You and I respect those comments I I still think we would not. Van Jones would not have been getting dragged. If he had made a full disclosure because. Promoting emoting each promoting this executive order. Going around on very CNN shows promoting. It's a great star as this as that. And then for it to come out that he was the one he was like you know he was the brainchild of. You know that's that's he? I mean. As usual, right very simple, he could have just been like listen. I work with them. Down with the. Right. Very simple. Could have like I did this one-two-three? And it's it's this is a start. We're going to build from this. We're GONNA. Take. This is the. And I think you know people were still like I said. People still say you know what this week, but. Then, you can hold your head high. And you could say hey I worked with. It's still different than when you hear politicians. I worked with my colleague on the other side of the aisle. It's it's. It's the same thing, but. He didn't do it the right way. Hey I'm going to I'm going to share the next topic. Is Hey Siri on getting pulled over? But I WANNA. Now you got Siri. I got Siri saying that okay so. We don't want that. Hang on one second I'M GONNA. Go to. Hang on. Hey, Siri. Boom. I. Go too late night. Parents Dot Com, and you'll find the latest and greatest. In podcast. youtube or youtube string facebook in. Overall twitter feed. So I think this is the video. I? Can. You can hear it not. May become a DEA speakers. Man. See. You can hear anything note. Can you. Know. I'M A. HEADPHONE! Played The speakers. But that will cause. So W F. Beheaded in late, but yeah, I get it. Can you hear now? Very low, but yeah. I'll just throw it in their. Post Reduction So. Ultimately what I was going to show, which was a total fail. was there's a feature. That came out in twenty eighteen. Basically built into all phones, all for apple users called shortcuts. Like. I said the APP was launched. In twenty. Eighteen allows users to conduct task on their phones. This will normally require multiple actions, but it's handling single voice command of the iphones. Artificial intelligence. Capability Siri. The sound great. I thought about this actor any but. I had this idea like twenty years ago. WATCH DATELINE EPISODE OF SOMEBODY WHO got trapped in their car fall. Not Too bad, they couldn't yell at it in heavy. Do something like a start communicator, and now here we are being able to activate your phone with a worried. So so so the thing about it is the best thing about it. You run through a couple of steps. so when you say Syria I'm being pulled over the phone. Itself starts to record from that point, right, audio video, and most important a connects to your cloud, and automatically uploads that audio and video. Sir Can't be tampered with if right right. So, on on on most cases, you know by default, you start off with five gigs worth of space on your on your cloud. Think it's. Of course I mean unfortunately in this day and age. This is a feature you need to have available enabled. Yeah, because you never know what's happening. Yeah and then she goes bad fast. You know and and with what we've seen. We've seen over the past several months. I mean the the amount of cell phone content video content on the things that have been happening out there in the streets with with law enforcement with. Protesters with. Peaceful protesters versus to rioters. Is You name it? Scary thing. Any thoughts on that so when you thought of creating. An APP like this years ago. All all I all I needed was a skill some knowledge to do exactly that. But. Yeah, you know you, you know you. Let your mind wander. You Watch all. The SCIFI showed that you know that we are with. Yeah you wonder why you know what happens and like I said what I thought about it years ago because of a day on episode. With Some lady. If I remember this right? Miss like. She. She went off like a like an over sounds. Like. Like the Great North West Indian like to just Kinda like. Sixty feet like down. This ravine distracted apar- and no one had known had gone over there, and she couldn't like. Reach a call crawling Wadi. And like the. Sims someone. A worker stumbled on her I want to say like. Fifteen days later she had been drinking rainwater and like she has a purse, but you couldn't reach a phone like. Fifteen days listening to cause zoom by you know. Luckily some guy was like. some like worker had to go repair something now that she knocked over. You know she had taken out stuff. It'd be one thing she cuticle. The Blackhawks from have found twelve hours. But yeah I was like land. Everybody's got so foam to benching. So the android version. That's a great idea of what the ended up being pulled over Siri and every kicks in automatic. Protect yourself mode that what you can hear. Everything from simple rudeness or simple kindness. To regular heroism or Carbon sinister this some these police officers. Series starts recording all of a sudden. You're random. I'm telling. Give your warning for blindness. The stop sign becomes. Miss Stain your car up in just. Like you're recording some. Do some parole thing. I mean they are those guys out there? This is. But you know. Right now you're going to have to deal with the trach and this is a product of it. You shouldn't need this quite frankly, but you do. You, know quite frankly you always did. Google's android version of this application unfortunately. I hate to tell you the name because I know you didn't go too late night. Parents Dot Com to read my article. Is called stop and I watch. That's even worsening. West. Stop and Frisk Watch stop and Frisk Watch. Why android! A. Watch like I was up for its apple, my watt. Dude. The APP is called stop and Frisk Watch for the lady marketplace right. I think that's even that's even worse name. Then, you you you, you can come up with I will say this much. We all have bad. We all have family friends. Colleagues that are law enforcement that feel in a certain way nowadays. because. I don't want to say they. They're getting a bad rap. But they are. Getting a we I mean. We have mutual friends. They're getting a bad rap because you know you've got. Some, folks out there that you know are not doing the right thing. And all the sudden. The fire becomes you. Start Looking at you. Know anyone in a uniform right in ready to critique them. Right, but but you've got a lot of people that have been you know. Wearing that badge for ten fifteen twenty plus years. Right right thing. Right. So I think the majority of rational people agree with that. but like you always get these. The fringe fringe is say defend. Defend the fund the police in. Nobody needs cops. Those people are idiots on the other end you have. Total at eight Sam same nonsense that nothing is wrong. Right in. You have gradients of the to slowly moving in, so I'm wondering if like nothing wrong. a tick in. It's like well. We just retrain them like what you're saying that whole thing and you tip it from them the other end where people like the funding combine these cops you take it from there and you get you know I mean from the Amer. People, Adonis Complex Susan your ticket from there and people on A. Police their own neighborhood, which you can't do without a trained organization to help you do it once they train you to do it. You become the cops. You know what I'm saying, so so it's weird little round robin. Minds soccer we that they like to play the game with him though Devos. We've seen it come through. Just kind of like a this. So unique cops you can't you can't. You! Know Abolish the police. That's ridiculous, but you can deform the police to take some of that money and put it towards social goods right so you don't have a job I cop. Not Comparable, crime problems. So you and I were I think we agree to disagree earlier today. We were talking and. A couple of times today, and we we, we resort with conversations that right and I put in perspective people one conversation. We had off air early. Today was two and a half hours long, right? Because some of these topics get a little heated in certain, things require not to be recorded. I will shoot my mouth off and. We know each other. You know right remain. Heated when I heated I don't mean Nano eating like yeah I. Know what you mean about the dress like so. Comfortable with you so I I use looser talk. That I would with other people because you know me so well. Yes, so. Recording, you know I, try and clean up my. My my verbiage substantially, but my burger. My verbiage is still a bit loosened in. In. In tree right, it's very. I I like to try to say that it saw. Look Listen Anyway the point is that? I feel comfortable with you, so I have to watch what I say when we when we actually record. because. I feel like could be honest with you, but at the same time also. Number now I'm thinking you know you can always be honest. You can always be honest. I told you. Not Getting brought into. Being I'm wild. Live Gig. Right right right. Now, there's there's no one in in who was dressed inappropriate. You know there's none of that, but what I'm talking about, and and I mentioned to you earlier, and you slightly agree, but you disagree and it was cool because we were talking about okay. There's this magical number in the air and I think you and I were going back and forth and I said. The number is a billion. If the budget is six billion. then. They're gonNA take a billion now. Whether or not you take that. Take that billion over X. amount of years, so you do it over four years, or you take that full billion. You not well hold wait, and if they're getting six year, and you're taking the million over four years. Then you're not. You're not taking six billion. You're taking. Two hundred fifty thousand dollars to fifty thousand now. I'm. Yeah. You having me. There but I'm saying you have to wonder how that number is. Is when you hear specific number. You say okay when they say a billion. Is that, you know. A million of the six, or is that a billion over few years or come out of their budget? Defined you twenty fifty billion dollars is. What I'm saying, but I'm saying. Yes, it's GONNA. Come Out! Is it. We're not involved in those conversations, yeah! That's part of the conversation. We should probably be have other than where this money gonNA. Come from, because you're already short changed the actual argument. It was supposed to be a billion dollars out of their yearly budget now. Fifty million to make a billion over four years. Can Lose my shit. Who who who knows if? You? Battle me and so I took it a step further where I said okay. WHATEVER THE DOLLAR FIGURE! And you know you have X. amount of police officers that are retiring. You got some that acquitting you got you know so if you got to seventy two that are retiring and you got. Seventy five that acquitting. Okay so roughly in my head I'm like you've got three hundred and fifty cops. You do the math on. You know the salaries and overtime and everything else like that to come up with that whatever that number is. Do you. Take that number. That billion and then don't replace that three fifty number because we're talking about thirty five thousand plus police officers that they're are currently out there in. New York, city. largest. Law Enforcement Police Force in the country, so my question is. Do you do it through attrition? Or. How our? How are you going to get to that magic number? Do you say okay? Do we slow up the classes? I think number one. The existing classes will hold on one second I. Think one with the existing classes. It can't it can't. Mirror the factory. And I don't know. I've never been a police officer I've never been the academy or anything like that. You can answer all of that. You were the experts. You are right. You are right so so I. Just WanNa, know. That number is that number I WanNa know that one D. in number and Ju-. Factor in the number of through attrition. To get to that number, or would you take that number and then also knack, there is the. Attitude. Part of is to correct some some institutional wrong part of this punitive I would take it out of their budget. Immediately I'm not trying to wake of fucking. People retire. Get serious about this topic, people. The the unions don't get the get their way right at this point that becoming like a fraternal organization against the people that's supposed to be. You know looking at it to protect so new, York. City and I love about new I the place while. The new state. Police Department has a six billion dollar yearly Of Budget, I would cut a billion of that and I would split between welfare programs and of the criminal justice court systems in all these places that they they let rots for the frigging send people to the American Gulag for thirty years, and I was fix it, and as a the cops coming in Cape, hiring these guys, but I would try. You don't need all these swipe. Guys let those guide retired. Don't replace those guys hire. Morgon or walk through this neighborhood. Neighbor policing is worse. I would have more PR functions right the idea that. If a neighborhood throws frigging block party, and the COP shows embrace it up with fourth because it went on too long. You know you're not. Like police organization if that's what you're doing, you just attack the neighborhood, so God forbid. You want to know who. Who the players are aware Sonia. Whiz no. You should want people to want to tell you that versus you know just sorta rolling on themselves. So all these all these nonsensical things have been allowed to to be at play forever, right? In the most recent. Days, they go back to at least bull connor in the fifties, these clever way of making sure they can violate your rides. And insane charge. So no I mean Tom the ended take a billion dollars off New York City budget. Put it to what is it? Not The PVA Police Powell pal police athletic. League a little more. Those have some for adults, not just the kids I. Can do something. Spend some money on my age group, right? I like at a late night. 'cause I'm not a teenager. Maybe after ten to midnight basketball thing under the SARS where I can have a beer. Nobody gets drunk. Of course, it's going to be cropped there. Everybody's a grownup. If you want to be an idiot, the Karcher away with generally have a beer out under the stars which neighbors. Neighbors and then you know on a weekend, you know. Saturday nights Sunday night, whatever make sure the plates is clean after you Lee and then go you know. Go back the while I love my neighbor. Put I I love Summers in wherever I live my police department. Don't bust my hump. I feel good because they are doing their job and my teenage daughter is hanging out with her friends at. Where the kids hang out that when I? I was a little kid. My sister will go to the roller skating rink and I was envious of that right, and then when I got older The, club I don't know if that'd be a thing by the time you know my Nyayo nieces like twenty five. Whatever maybe that'd be going to? Parties on Mars it what the fuck, but it's always going to be some new thing to explore and. So forth throughout all of history. There's always been. Bad police work to go along with that so people who talking about Mars and the moon the first thing I. always think about it's like to be on the moon. Really you know they're gonNA. Be Asa. Lamar's. You gotta fix these things before you can get people. You know. To kinda trust that that your system. Is is honestly working for them and I think you're at the point now where people are honestly began to give up on this unfair system. So you, no! DOUBT IT'S A. It's that if that makes any sense, so your listeners know it does know what to do. I just want to do a quick hard stop. Yes, A, this is late night. Instead Hicks from night parents with follow. The show is late night. PARENTS DOT COM. We're sitting here with true armor as you can see. He's starting to get a little fired up because he's talking about a few topics. that. Are Near and dear to his heart, and also on everyone's timeline, you can follow true at on. Twitter is a great follow. tru underscore our mo are. And you can also check out his. Videos because there's a whole bunch of you know items that he talks about on Youtube and your youtube feed is. charmer. Tru underscore yet to you, Do. We deal on space s armor. Trauma finding I'm from armor on all platforms true would e. Okay, so there's an absence some time there is it. True Ass- get JURISCO. Stanford truce yes. That's. That's actually is a moth. My Name is Sharm all Mindich have always started with an S.. Often the days and when I was a housing. How everybody clube shining? Armor Shining Armor, Wag nine supposed on be these motifs fall into kind of like. My and we all have nicknames in the hood. Okay? Hey So. We know have nicknamed winner in the group Chat. Hey i. want to talk about the something else, said I I opened up the newspaper. The virtual newspaper today and I saw the rifle-wielding lawyers I saw that. Those black lives matter protesters I'm not sure where this was vizier Kentucky or something like that. I WANNA. Say Minnesota Minneapolis minute okay with it was. Okay, so they're doing a peaceful protests that walking by. And then the only thing I kept seeing was two people standing outside there. Seemed like a mini mansion. One had a rifle in one head of handgun and I'm like what in the world's going on here? This, this seems like all types of wrong in that somebody could get killed. Yeah oppo budget could have got guilty had a are. So. Within A or IM- one anyway. Yeah I mean. People losing their mind man I mean so, so so is it? Is it the coded, is it? Marches is what we're seeing on. TV is the Cable News Logan. That's a good question could be so stressed. Often Kobe that. You've been. On your bigotry and in cost you everything and like including your freedom. But let's be clear before Kobe like God which shooting up kids and And Frankly I was thinking of the young boy who was playing music too loud in the guy shot into his car at the gas station. And then drove off, went home and had pizza. Like. There was no covert when he was ridiculous nothing. Some people are just arrogantly ridiculous, and the longer you grow up being your special ridiculous. You know when that becomes challenge. You react badly. And this is not the first time remember hurricane could was Katrina. The dancing bridge incident right those cops. But, while that was going on there with other people who wouldn't let you drive through that community, they are guards in out of this place so when America of always began to sharp always people like that who've come out of the woodworks with ridiculous behavior. Who on about helping their neighbor or the American way or anything, thereby being afraid and scared and pulling a gun on you and claiming that year the problem so I mean people like to say all together until we all need to be in it together. So the! Arena choice lofty. So, have you? Have you followed up on the story? Like? Where are we at right now I? Mean I know like the press restyled to them and they're. The gun people yeah, are there like any charges be filed or well that? That's looking at that, but apparently there. Bill Lawyers. Forgotten hyper lawyers I WANNA say. Divorced for anything like that, maybe but They may take. And the guy said he saw them break down the front gate and he thought the label wanted to know what was going on. And then he felt that he threatened him and his wife. His Front Gig was broken now. No, the apparently, it's a gated community. The Maryland gated community so that they know much. Show it on TV, but this is what he said in a statement that. They broke the gate and got onto this. I guess it's a gated community where the Maryland. And where he lived too so. But, he was saying how he supports black lives matter and he didn't break any laws and. Yeah. It's you know. After you put the? Gun Down and close your door and then just start trending twenty lake. Like thank you just see all these. Mention your name. Download dangerous rising. And people you know like you don't come into work tomorrow and people from only affirmative like yeah, we withdraw visits from your all of a sudden. You gotta get. Get out ahead of it this, what Tina fey did right. We're GONNA. pull all the black face episodes. To getting ahead of it, so. We'll see what happens. Every our needs to get drama. So are you comfortable with saying this attack? Couples about to be cancelled, or they're not going to be canceled or what? They? Both lawyers lawyers DOT thousand tricks to keep justice at bay, right or to drop. Unfairness on your head because they know how the rules of the level of justice work. So, that's that's a good question. I mean they're not cops, right? Right. and. Obviously obviously, both of those weapons were registered in. You know I. I doubt that they'd make a lazy mistake by having to Right. Right that's what I'm saying. They're not rappers. Wow, but know what I'm saying. Is they the you know? I think they checked all the boxes you. Once the blowback began. They went into. Pr Mo as well as damage control mode, because like I said the both lawyers. Saint Louis Missouri yet to couple reported point weapons outside their Saint Louis Missouri known. But he gave big nothing. A statement statement was pretty good. It was full of ship was pretty good. It was. Able to get support black lives matter when you talk. About black lives matter we do be invaded. But what about black life by a another show eight eight? It was a home invasion. No, not home. They did the like they saw them break. Through the gate into the gated community. That's a form of Deja. No no, he said they broke the gate essentially. Broke through the game. I Kim was sitting on the Veranda having like I'm going to that country music. took. Gate goes down right. They go wild honey. What's going on, so they go to the front door and go? What are you people doing out there? At this damage broken gate, and then the crowd was. Aggressive and Threatening even at like on video this what they're historians and he felt. For Him and his wife safety that they were going to be attacked, so they have go get these weapons and keep the the people at bay. But none of none of the video said any of that shift. and. He's like what about. Wife Love Black. Lives matter. So! This is why everybody. Remember what cameras the new thing the cops? COP did not one. Why, because this? This is where we are now. You really don't need them because everybody's got. And there are some. that. Don't want you to have a camera on the. Oil To cut it off all this other nonsense. They just need the fixed. So I WANNA go to facebook AD boycott continues. It, you know. I spoke about this the other day. And I said it started off with. Nor. Face Rei which are niche type products, which spilled into rising Microsoft McDonnell's. Is through the roof. I think people have been tired of frigging patrol while now. Right so this may be a chance for everybody to just kind of like you know. Bring them down, the because remember. These I'm I'm pretty sure all these people are canceling their. Their! And Revenue Bucks had kids with facebook accounts because like what we to bring people on it. Most Western society easily so I'm sure they're unhappy with their privacy issues right so now. They you know they axel to to. You know in gender some actual change through money, and not because it's just something to do for Good Pr. We don't like the people to think that you know, but because they actually have skin in the game. I'm a see all who worked on. Microsoft's yeah. Okay, I'm CEO of Microsoft and I'm boycotting because not only do I. Have a facebook account my grandkids, my my net. My daughter doesn't like the privacy issues, so maybe I'll head dollars I. think it's more than the private. Sector I. Think it's more than a privacy. Issue is the the the amount of hate speech. On that saying that so many people now, even those people are could be connected in a way that they may actually one change to virtual dress, trying to hide behind PR terms of you know we're. We're for what the people want. Like Amazon Amazon gives you know. Two hundred five thousand dollars. I make black lives matter. is spending like eighty million dollars making sure that there's no union in their warehousing notice other nonsense, so it's doubled. Talk the money's. The money looks good when you. Somebody reports on it in the newspaper you go while that Amazon break-up. The you find out really bad, you know. It was essentially paid advertisement or unpaid advertising, because on the other side of this thing that Kinda undoing people. With way more money. And way more zeal. WHO saw a question was posed to being I'M GONNA poses to you. How long do you give Mark Zuckerberg as the CEO and chairman? Of facebook I think he stays chairman. He used shareholders going no place. How long they? No, no, no, he's GonNa stay chair I'm just thinking of the negativity. That He says okay. You know what let me let me get. Outta this CEO position and I can make the same amount of money as a at that point about money, always control. I mean if it doesn't. It's not about money at that level you've you don't see him moving you, don't you? Don't see him relinquishing. Out of the game to do what cinema yacht. And make money hand over fist, but it's not about money is now is about money. Okay Power I tell them nephew all the fucking time. It's not about money about power. Once you have fucking power. You don't care about money you know who happened money at steam you'll. He got murdered in his jail. Cell New has power. principle. You know where he's going fucking nowhere to bank with Dinners Gospel Power Is. It's not about the money to buy the power. The filming. A witcher or something I Phil Mickelson look. The press lived in California. We went this before. Got Power. What money you get into a fucking street whimsy. What happened here activates a whole country. His Graham runs Britain. Don't think it's a bar fight. He's got power. I. Rape among those actor who has money? I still name. Don't think he gets either takes himself out. 'cause after a while. Here these stays. He's in the game forever. No one can take it from him. Unless he does with a WHO's the porn guy Helps. Right he can. Back let's have. Playboy. PENTHOUSE guide. Guccione. No, no, no, no, that was the other guy. was. Heffler there was. Guccione, and then there was a guy who they made the movie with Rudy Woody Harrelson about and sued for his First Amendment right I think he was housed. One Upright Guccione was hustler. Do Okay, boy, hustle and pin also the pay guy. What chasing the the with my train of thought, so I finally. Grabbed the bone that I wanted and I kind of much. But what we're talking about. We were talking about the soccer and right I'm sorry so right so so husband Hustler. penthouse Guy Step back after he was shot. And he'd let someone else. Run the place for like ten years with the. He came back because. He owned the place. It was his company and it wasn't. It wasn't on Wall Street or anything, but you know he he was the boss. If Zuckerberg. Had minority share. They would have removed him awhile ago. He. They can't remove him. He, he may take a step down. Let somebody run it like when Bloomberg brand! New York. thinking. Of taking a pie in the face. Every other matter a the matter. Okay You know I, I! I. Know Money doesn't mean anything to you. I'm just saying. Each so much easier to say hey, it's that guy's fault right there. That's his issue. Chairman is way easier to say is my company, and it's not my fault or I don't care. WHO SAYS APPLYING TO FACE WHO says I'm embarrassed by? These guys the pine the face. So what it's! Well, it can't be a good feet. I mean because now believe it or not. I I know money doesn't matter you, but these ad dollars Ena these dollars. That's a blow to the EGO. Destroying something you bill. He's still be sitting on one hundred billion dollars right. Right. So if they fired him what he's going to be on welfare line though he's going to be sitting in a giant house ongoing. Hires. For for me. I like like when Bill Gates said Hey. I'm stepping down from Microsoft because I WANNA do I wanNA find the year to AIDS. Yeah, that's different than being forced now. Something else I've done this since nineteen. I'm forty five and forty something else. That's totally different than four out of something. You built guys young and I mean. Why would he leave? The find a woman of his dreams married with three kids. WHAT ELSE HE GONNA? Be Yelled at by woman. You'll be divorced in seven years. He's GonNa. Stay right where he is. He's doing exactly that talking smoke. I was watching CNBC. This morning yet wishes minute minute thing It was one of the CO founders of Instagram was on there. And it was just so funny because he was talking about the beating. Zuckerberg has been taken right, but he was on there to talk about rt live. Arts live? Yeah, share it in the group chat today. Basically, it's like Kind of shows you. I don't WanNa to say is contact tracing. But it's a step towards contact tracing. with with the COVID. He was talking about the tool today he was like in all. It's a free website. And this is some of the stuff that that we're doing and basically just showing you how the cluster is happening what to stay away from? Last week versus this week. A forecasting tool, right? So so it's pretty cool. I thought it was pretty cool this morning. I was just like Oh okay, then just looking at because the. Phone. Yeah. We used to have privacy in this country. I'm just saying. Well, it's. Going here that I don't think you could actually get away with because we are just telling. Give up the. The fact that I you know i. sit down something yesterday. I sent out something that you've giving your privacy away. The minute you turn on location services the minute you grant all these ads access to your personal data, and where you are, and who you are you take. Yes in all the Geo tags and everything else like that, so don't don't don't start with the privacy business. Is You given it the the minute you turned on that I phone? Yeah but see the thing I don't know if you can give it away. I've been thinking about it. Yeah everyone signs include us be signed is just click dot. Yeah, I agree kind of thing I don't know if you can give it away. Putting a really that where? You can sign away these rights with this. You know paper things for this thing that you're going for four hundred dollars. This technological was Mo- brick that we are care around an pockets. Sign away your rights. If if you if I had a piece of paper right here, that's and you signed. It said I ted Hicks agree to be your slave for year. Not Ballots because he signed it. He same. In this is some of this stuff I'm just not like. I wanted to one song away. seriously it. Is You know you couldn't sign away I? MEAN THEY PUT? This country let's put like. Double is in the detail like they say Daniel. Webster all over the place this country. Like. These contracts are just really just. I don't know if I was talking to you. I don't know who I was talking to the other day. It might have been you. And I said do many favor. Look at your bill. Because I think I know I was having a conversation, and the person was talking about the amount of spam calls. They were receiving right. And I said take five seconds look at your bill. In the the reference was looking at my physical bill. No go into your console. which everyone has access to you? Go in? You could see your minutes spent where Halyard data is being burnt, right? There's an option in there that you acknowledged. The day will by default. When you turn that phone on. Right. Because you, said Hey I. Agree to allow XYZ provider where there's verizon north, T, mobile, or or at and T. That you can take my number. Share it with third parties. By that, but now you have to go in there, and you have to turn those features off yet, but there was so much blowback with that before that now that's prominent you cut. You can cut a third parties, but it used to be Berry. Right used to be buried in the, but it was such a problem before that is a prominent, you can turn the problem now. How many spam calls do you get a day? Yeah Yeah Yeah! So, it's a problem now. You. And and as I said before the minute was. The minute the government locks. The minute the we had the locked down for the government. Yeah. All those databases became out of sync. You remember FCC. FDA and everything else I. If there. So it's. A. Physical lockdown. as you know. Kind of are you talking about this pandemic block? No government remember with government. I know there's a lot of lot of lockdowns in in the past year. Note the government remember they couldn't agree in trump was like. Hey, we're GONNA lock it down and low seen Schumer, and all this other stuff and. They were Kinda like they had that. That Evil Grin for the both of them and I'm like well. Wait a minute. Okay? What I'm saying is. All of those a government run. How data is secured all the all the spam calling and everything else like that. When saying is the data? Those databases became out of sync. They had to. Okay. And I'm just going on with saying it's never really caught up. Because at one point, everyone was talking about it like when you know your local news station Channel Says Hey. Are you getting a lot of spam calls? Because remember it was just through the roof. and. But. There was a time when we weren't getting that. Things were shutdown so. I'm rambling, but on the. Joe. Those Robo calls that you know right Golic twenty five years to Robo calls, and then they damp. They tapped down for a couple of years, and all of a sudden came back with a vengeance. Yeah I'm just saying you gotTA do your homework. You GotTA do your homework. And just as you give all these APPs access to allow where you are to know where you are, and you WanNa, know hey, why does my browser know that I was just looking at this on my phone? Is this legal. You know, but. we just got to be smart and we got to be smart. When we see this this facebook ad by boycott, you know why why it's only active. through July. The boycott is only active room I. had the expiration date on it? Yes yet these people on series. Let's. I don't know. They. Don't seem series to make you boycott until you. I mean then throughout. Their boycotting this month and next month? If you listen to this stuff clear because the headlines get you. Hey, all these companies are boycotting. Okay? This read the fine print. Yeah, they're boycotting through through through the month of July. Yes we this. This is the kind of thing 'cause you know why why. That two point five billion User base in facebook is just as important to them. Because they're selling goods. and. Right you know so I'm just saying we. We just got to be mindful. Really got to be mindful. Because a lot of this stuff is word play. And it's Kinda. Apropos because we can go into. you know Amazon? Prime Day. July sixteen. Second. The holiday of this is crazy Amazon. Crime, day, let's see what it is. It is Sudanese. Forty eight. And I just keep saying. I think it's it's more than just. A day now they've spread it across. Forty eight hour Erie something like that. Away now looks was saying now looks like Amazon Prime Day twenty twenty will be delayed until September dacoven. His. Back in eighteen, it was the thirty six hour happened on the sixteenth of July. So. It goes into this topic. It's article. We're going to have on late night. Parents I think on July first. Is Amazon prime two days shipping so worth. Know every everyone will don't be so quick to. Everyone you know there's like a hundred in twenty million. Subscribers. To for Amazon Prime. Shipping. So you got as many people that vote in a presidential election. As Amazon prime subscribers. What does that tell you? Tell You I. Don't know what does that tell me. A company based as big as the voting block of America. I think that's. Good. For US I be. I don't know what you. Got You got three hundred and thirty million Americans. Right. You got a hundred and twenty million subscribers, his three hundred seventy. Okay. You got one basically roughly one third of that because you got to think about about one hundred and twenty million people vote on June, twenty, two, hundred and twenty five. Three hundred twenty nine noise. I think what did I think. This. I told you three thirty. Because you don't trust me, you don't think I do my homework. But it's okay. I feel anyway by. It's okay so You got a huge base. Second my mouth. That's it. England had sixty million the last now. Sixty million I said. That's a real low number She'll be five point nine million people. Close relation. What did I say in Australia's? Forty. Twenty Nine, but I got twenty four ninety nine. Okay, maybe you said twenty-nine. I don't know but dude. So tell me. I've gotTA. have of useless trivia. And Sobriety. WILL TRY TO. To try to covert, I may have thought throat. I said prior to cove I think. The Amazon Shipping Yeah, the greatest idea ever. Why? it took you out of. Having go to the mall. And allows you to the mall. When used to go to the mall. Look at girls when we were young then. The good social gathering place one of the MOGGY August anger. because it's. A mall. It's it's a legacy. It's a legacy property. It's it's a legacy situation. It's it's something that mean. Well, it's something that's that's dying. Right, but I'm saying it shouldn't be like the post office. Freight is dying I. It's to wearing around. It costs more. To operate. Than the actual revenue that you actually have come in, so yeah because. With this with this. I think they I mean the big thing with with Amazon, prime the big. The. I guess the flying. Is. You can't get anything in two days anymore. Period I don't care what it is. Covid right, but thus does not because the technology right that's because of Donald. In ailment breath, but once cove is gone. You can get stuff in two days ago. Yeah, right, yes. We? Lost, technology. It's Scholem it's not a bad. No. That, you know. But I think he's had from Wisconsin overnight into today's. But here's the problem. You look at any car insurance. You look at any insurance company. They're giving you might ask. Why because you're not doing driving? Because! You're not doing this because I I know from from my insurance company alone. I've received roughly one hundred eighty dollars back. In the last few months. You know I'm just saying. Amazon is not offering any money back. They're just there that saying you pay one hundred twenty. We're GONNA. Give you thirty dollars back. They're not saying that right. Right they will want some people start leaving, and then they go, we got. Retention Problem Hey. We're GONNA cut your someone so you don't have to worry about Xyz so the next year took over happens for. They want to keep you on. The docks the dockets. I think they're so big. I think is so they're so big. It doesn't that's true. We just had this conversation about facebook. That's not true. FACEBOOK is bleeding money care because they're trying to same business. FACEBOOK is. By generating income fates. Generate income I know, but I but the. Income for us. FACEBOOK is free for Amazon you have to pay the. Three times that I said I know I, said opposing A. Lesson yet. facebook get free, but. is trying to make money Amazon the not free. It's also in the business of making money so right. So going got them I'm not getting today delivery, and I'm paying for this trap and it's been half a year. People Begin to do that in the people who ever the Chief Executive Vice President. The retention unit at Amazon on this this window of the business will why the WHO? Who's head of the APP? Thing while numbers dropping Bob. We, haven't been delivering and we've got. People trying to unit. We don't care. About excuses. Why they need. To embark, you're like wait. WHOA. Nobody's a hazardous prime. We're GONNA. Suspend your monthly thing until this whole thing bull. That like I said they keep you on the butts. And then what's all the gets automatically? Start recharging you again because you know you a lot of as long as want complaining. Why give you your money back? I read. I can Soviet with. Miss Helen Amazon operative forty, thousand seventy and said. I don't like the way you treat me and my I'm taking my. Shit. By Amazon right, but once you get a couple of. Catches fire like this police protests like the fake protests do not have to go. You know this is. Why Threat, talk business we don't like. This looks like this is bad. Press. Bad mojo! We need to fix this to keep this part of. The business that we like in the band Salei. and. I think that's what's going to happen, but until someone goes. Hey, you guys suck over there for you. No! Charge me today delivery taking in three weeks again here. I was waiting for that fire. Yeah! I knew if I could amount of thinking juice. Off. I was waiting for it. Always. He's called rain. All the sudden you caught fire. And I could see the theory in the rage and it was great. The fury. macy's fireworks show. winning. I think the macy's fireworks show which is going to happen this weekend. has been happening since What Memorial Day. Yeah the instant fireworks every night. I know in New York for me. I've been hearing every night since since Memorial Day. And I'm, not in the boroughs. Long Island and I'm like cheese. I said this again. He got saying. Yes yesterday that there should be happening all over the country. Independence. And everybody was crying about shame. Then what am I looking for over here I don't know. Because you know every like San you every. What every year about the fireworks begin to go off. It's sort of like lease up to Fourth of July and. Says the. four-month. Month usually not a month, but there's a lot of people out of work and at home. That's why maybe a little more. Robust than you staring, but even then you know it's it's. What we Americans do so. There's more people at home right now, so they're spending money on. Kids Sil-. Fireworks frigging dirty, so you sit outside of in my everybody's not getting giant. Bought Record. The most people get firecrackers in skyrocket, so you like them with the old. and that's it, but every you get teenager to WANNA bigger and more ECZEMA. Yeah some you know you get that and that's that's part of. Their right to be. Rebellious American teenagers right, so yeah like I said I had a dog for sixteen years and every year the fireworks ago off. We lived in Brooklyn. She would not dig it. So, I thought a comfort are enclosed a window in like you know. It's it's what we do. Where Americans is what we do It will go away. Talk about putting of fireworks detail and I was like really man more cops in this environment. Into Shit over fireworks. Really is this. Why is? You know is this doesn't make any sense. It seems like a really good way to add some more problems so. Yeah. So, you're okay. The fireworks kept you up at all. No not really, but I'm not a you know. Seventy five year old God streaming MPP off my lawn either. I get that it's July fourth coming up, you know. And expect when I did this work I will with. What di? Thereabouts and we hit a corner, and I will be industry no fiber. Blue their fingers off. We'd let it go because once. You've got out of the car. It was gonna be a neighborhood incident. Showed la La, La Right and you find, and then you come back with someone. Look finger off or you know. Did soccer series like that, but that's looking for trouble. This is one that this is giving people drinking. Some of these on. Thirty first. You expect people to drink wide. Why quotes drama for Yourself? You know with this off of Sutton Zahn. frigging one of those people who the more police having Iraq will walk up. The people go. That skirts too short. You know it's. Like whipping with a across because they had religious authority, this kind of like nonsense, so it's it's delightful. Fourth expected to be loud. In Cranky and put you off a little bit and yet hate it, but at the end of the day remember you grew up in. You did the same thing. And I could prove it because I was witcher. I just got something across my stream. I said. It also it cert-, they soleil filed for bankruptcy action. It also laid off. Roughly thirty five hundred employees. If you heard about that. We are the job doing backflips at. But it makes sense. Nobody's going to keep them up in. Right I mean. Like, Oh, we've got enough money for two months to be solvent dependable far that now they have to deal with creditors in ran landlords in all the other. Stuff ticket ticket holders. With the guy who who owns shares in your company stockholders, and all this other stuff, so yeah. Burger King McDonalds will be doing the same thing if I've gone to those restaurants. But Luckily, most people don't know how to cook. So. This is going to be the last people to go. They'll shot at every man, woman and child out there. That's terrible. Who can't Cook Yeah I absolutely look at. You like to eat it. You should know how to cook. If you like to put food in your face and you know how the? People did not watch. The dish is outrageous. You are grown person and you don't know how to wash dishes. You ought to do laundry. Outrageous. But the people who demand that you'd be. X., Y. Z.. Those. Dump the shakers. Who can't do the basics. Don't get me wrong I'm not Martha. Stewart here, struggle like everybody else, but. Oh My. Dude Ahead of black. We went through. A third a ton of topics. I know I had some. Issues in the beginning. Thank you for walking me through. Those issues I think we'll do is weekly. We'll. You know what's helpful. We we talk politics, we talk other stuff. In for the most part, you did your best job staying away from our. Forty six president. In other states. You know he's he's going to be Sworn in I. Think January twenty first. Is going to. January twenty Joe Savar Biden Junior! Oh my goodness all right. This is Ted Hicks night parents. Eight one thing true armor for coming through your follow him on twitter. Are you underscore A. R.? M.? O. Are you can find these shows on the website late? My parents dot, com, or yeah, sculptured website, and you'll find various feeds and everything else like that near find Give us your youtube page one more time. To Youtube! Around. Liking subscribing, come on through, I'm trying to build A. An interesting experience. So before I click in broadcast. Tell us about the interesting experience. What will we I'm there? What will we find on Youtube page? Trying to do some politics, some cooking some. Gaming but I'm just getting it up and getting starting sort. Organizing organizers but up until then I've been. Speaking in doing podcast for a lot of other people. Trying to do my short. Short. On cooking start from the beginning of the thing to do the whole thing and then. It takes about an hour to cook a meal. Forty minutes from now cook a meal so. I don't do five minute cooking sidelines just yet I. Actually just have one up so I was won't yesterday, but yeah. Way An hour about an hour seven minutes right. Yeah, cookie from. and. Yeah, it's it's. Way Cooking should be done, right. but yeah like I said I'm. In the early throes of it, totally I'll be good at it. Police are buying. Tell me if I suffer not. Don't stop some if Stop Try They could tell you. Long as they click the share, and they they outright exactly. Exactly. All Right? We're out I. Think People.
Fall Brawl '96
"Doc going man and you're listening to three weeks. They're off Eric. What's going on man? How are you? I'm doing great looking forward to a busy week coming up a little bit of travel a little bit of pay per view the business new smackdown coming. Everybody's way so a lot of great stuff going on having a blast lots of great stuff happening here on eighty three weeks as well our topic today Eh is such an important show to me fall brawl nineteen ninety-six and we should mention today's episode is brought to you by boost mobile the switch that gives you more this show. We're going to talk about today Eric. I told you off air that if you were here in person we were together I now I would give you a hug for because I I sort of put wrestling down and Maria view mirror and I was not watching for ninety three ninety four ninety five and then one day I'm flipping flipping through the channels probably late August nineteen ninety-six and I see Hogan and all black and I think that whole co what does this. I'm so used to the baby face red and yellow all American Hulk Hogan Old Cogan wearing all black and growing a beard was just weird so it captivated me caught my attention and I had never even seen diesel razor amount so I didn't know who those guys were. Just knew this guy is supposed has to be good guy. What in the world and I found myself falling in love with Nitro and this is my first pay per view back so watching this show this week was such a joy brings me back to the height of my phantom and I can only imagine what it must feel like for you because when you go back and watch this all these years later you guys are certainly roll in here and you've got some momentum but you know what's about to come and you're about to fucking own the wrestling world? That's never more evident than this. Show say well you know. I don't think it's fair to say that you know we knew what was to come because we were taking you know one day to time one show at a time I clearly you know we're on the beginning of a massive role in in terms of our success but you know as you know I've talked about this before on this show you know oftentimes when I go back and I look at these episodes these pay per views from twenty years ago or more or a nitro or whatever it is you know you kind kind of cringe a little you know because everything has advanced so much further you know the in ring product has advanced in many respects or evolved. I should say some people may not think of it as an advancement but I do but the in ring product has evolved the production techniques that we use today are so advanced compared to what we used to do. Formatting the way we set up backstage promos so many of the things that we do today have advanced so much further when you go back and look at them. It's kind of like going back and looking looking at your high school yearbook and seniors a picture of yourself when you thought you were really all about it and you look look at it twenty years later my case much longer than that and you go dork and sometimes I have that same feeling when I go back unless he shows but I have to say hey you know what I knew we were going to do this show I went back and watched it on the wwe network as I always do and this is one of the shows I think probably one of taper views really that I really got excited watching this. We did so many things right for this. Pay Per view even leading into it you know the way we set up our stories the the intrigue around who's the fourth man some really advanced storytelling devices vices that we use it. We'll talk about throughout the show. I'm sure there's so many things that we did that. Were so far ahead of our time and were probably in the day considered to be massive risks and breaking the the the paradigm of what everybody thought was the rustling model in the day day in the way story should be told during the day or at that time that it really I had so much fun watching it. I could probably sit back can watch it again in pick out even more things that I'm I'm excited about. There's there's and we'll talk about it. I don't WanNa give the whole thing away. As the show goes on we'll talk about those moments that I wish I could have do over or if we were going to re book at how would I would have I would have probably approach it today having twenty some odd years more experience and and you know the benefit of twenty twenty hindsight but for the most part really really proud of this effort by the entire. WCW A. B. C. W. team at that time yeah. I'm going to recommend if you're an ulcer wrestling fan go onto the show this week. There's so much good stuff on here and there's some there's some stuff off the might doesn't age as well but gosh what a great show and what a great time to be a wrestling fan of course we're talking about fall brawl nineteen ninety-six with Donald September fifteenth paint so the anniversary the show just a few days ago from Lawrence Joel Veterans Memorial Coliseum in Winston Salem North Carolina as eleven eleven thousand three hundred in the building ten thousand seven hundred and fourteen of those paid a decent gate but not nearly what's to come for WCW in the future one hundred fifty the three grand and then another fifty thousand in merchandise it does point six Albar eight for one point six two million dollars pay per view revenue it would as you probably figured out Hulk Hogan is now a bad guy that happened in July so just two months prior to this of course he won the World Title L. and spray painted the interview onto the big gold belt one month prior at the very first hog wild before it would be renamed renamed road wild and now we're back in a more traditional sort of WCW pay per view fall brawl you know that means war games and we're in the Carolinas and we've talked about this a little bit before about how WCW just sort of made annual events at the same building so for a long time stark arcade was at the MCI Center and for a long time Halloween havoc was in Las Vegas and here for an extended run fall brawl finds itself in the Carolinas is that just sort of Omar's to Jim Crockett promotions or or North Carolina the right fit for Fall Brawl d thing I think part of it was the ammash factor as you as you pointed out. I think that there was still a desire on our part art. Kinda create a tradition. Keep in mind you know as a kid growing up in I'll I'll I'll talk about my my wrestling. Phantom in Minneapolis is probably the most influential on me although I watched it obviously when I watched wrestling when I was a kid growing up in Detroit but you know once I got to be a teenager ager into my early mid teens and I was able to travel with my friends and go to wrestling events without mom or dad you know Thanksgiving was a big wrestling day and eh traditionally in Minneapolis. You know Christmas Day Christmas evening I should say was a big traditional wrestling event Minneapolis. I've I've always believed at least I believe that at that time things have changed now but I believed at the time that you know rusting was a family event in the tradition. was a part of the reason why families kept coming back year after year. You know professional wrestling has been a multi generational family affair if you will that's it's kind of been passed down from father to son father to son for Sunday father you know for decades into this day you know you and I both both have gone to conventions together and sign autographs and you see a gentleman in his sixties or seventies coming up with his son and his thirties and forties news and he's got his son who's in his teens early or early teaser to early adolescent and they all watch wrestling together so I think that sense of generational of ewing in participation and experience is something that kind of just lent itself to trying to do the same thing in the same venues each time time of year and I think for a long time at work and part of it was again. WCW formerly the NWEA I guess the heritage of of many of our performers including sting and Luger Anderson and many of the other ones that we use at the time early on a WCW we're all born in that southeastern part of the the United States so it was just a natural fit well and it's probably a natural fit for this podcast and some of our listeners over at express express services graduation season just right now in the rear view mirror so a lot of folks probably looking to get the first GIG and you're looking for a new job. Maybe you should just let job genius power your job search. Here's the deal job genius offers free advice on job searching resume writing interviewing taking the tips. You need to Asia first day on the job visit expresspros dot com slash job genius today search job genius on Youtube unless that educational the video series be your guide for entering the workforce job genius is brought to you by express employment professionals a leading staffing company that employs more than half a million people a year express offers good paying jobs and administrative roles including customer service sales accounting positions as well as the skilled labor jobs like drivers forklift operators welders I and even CNC programs apply now at Expresspros Dot Com. Just call your local office. You can even complete your application over the phone C. Express nose jobs jobs. It's time for you to get to know express and express associate in New York said express is far more professional than other staffing agencies and they found me work right away a job seeker in New Jersey said expressed is simply the best. They're effective efficient and do what they say. When you apply for a job you need a callback an opportunity to to interview so let your local express employment specialists help yeah Dobson never pay a fee at expressed and each week express has thousands of open positions nations so don't go it alone in your job search get to know express and find your local office right now at expresspros dot com or on the express jobs APP and I should mention that business here continues to climb and this is sort of the story of W W in this era September ninety-five which by the way is the month that Nitra started your average attendance is two thousand one hundred forty fans now because of the hype of the and the consistency of good shows on nitro where ref sixty one percent or three thousand four hundred and fifty four fans by September of Ninety six and your gate? That's not up sixty one percent. That's a hundred hundred and fifteen percent average gay and September of ninety five is a paltry eighteen thousand seven hundred and fifty bucks one year later over forty grand forty thousand four hundred and three dollars in ratings by the way they're up twenty one percent as well. He did a one point nine in September of ninety five a two point three here and September number of ninety-six. We should mention that raw was preempted on September second. of course the holiday weekend so nitro does a great rating four point three the next week raw comes back to a two point four nitro still on top three point seven the September sixteenth show which would be the night after this pay-per-view nitro once again three point seven rows down to a two point one on September twenty third three point four for Nitro too for all and let's close out September on the thirtieth three point three for Nitro two point three for raw every single week you're winning. I feel L. and September of ninety six well. It was very validating to say the least and again. It's hard to describe the feeling AH I don't WANNA be redundant in this but you know when you've when you've been a distant number two you know when I came to WCW you were the number two wrestling company in the world but the gap between number one and number two it was so distant that it might have been measured better in light years as opposed to numerically and I it kind of beat you down you start looking at yourself in a way as you know the inevitable number two and nothing is ever going to change range. Nobody really believes it can no matter how much we try to convince ourselves and we would try to be each other's cheerleader and WCW even when I first got into the management side of the equation deep down inside we were kind of always resolved to be maybe a better number number two and maybe you know make a little more money and increase revenues and profit Martha so forth but deep down inside we we knew that we were kidding ourselves most of the time until we started thinking about the product differently and I don't generally like to put myself over in in these things but again it wasn't because I was you know lying in bed awake at night. You know coming up with ways to improve the product liked initially at least it was because I had a figurative gun to the back of my head once nitro. Was You know put on my radar Karen. I was it was a mandate. It was a request it was a mandate and I knew I had to either sink or swim. The there was no there was nothing in the middle and that forced forced me to start thinking about the product as differently as I possibly could. I know I've said this before but I don't think I can overstated stated or say it too often. You know when you're in a competitive environment and I'm talking about a generally competitive environment like television was and still is to this date so in many many respects is far more competitive. Now there's ever been simply because you're not just competing against the product had your same genre you're competing against all other forms of you know platform viewing and just viewing habits and patterns have changed so much over the last twenty or twenty five years but I think in anytime you're in a in a comp- really do or die kind of competitive situation and I remember saying to myself. I have three choices I can be better than A. WWF The time it was a wwf. I could try to be better than them at what they're already great at. I looked at the odds of that. If I was a gambler and I was putting money on our our proposition as far as being better than them at what they were already good at with an audience that they already had there was a very loyal audience the odds of winning that were pretty slim if existent at all I knew I could be different than them. That was completely within within my control there was nobody preventing me from making a list of things that that we could do that would make us decidedly different than the WWF and give the fans a chance to vote on it with their remotes or by default. If I wasn't different than in a way that was compelling for the audience and interesting testing for the audience I would be by default less than so it was the better than different than less than kind of formula that I focused I don I immediately you know eliminated any effort or or resolve to try to be better than the WWF at what they were already fantastic at and try to take away an audience that was already loyal to them for decades. I knew I didn't want to be less than the. WWF that wasn't an option so so I was forced out after thinking through it and visualizing it I was forced to find as many ways to be as different as I could possibly be and not just the colors of the ring mat in the ring ropes and the lighting and the graphics are all superficial. Things are all important. Don't get me wrong but they they fundamentally. They don't change the way someone feels about a product about a television product. I knew I had to change the way the audience felt belts about us US meaning. WCW felt about our brand felt about the way we told our stories. I had to change the way that the audience felt it's about our characters and once that became clear to me I didn't make wholesale change across the board but many of the things that we did in terms of the way we were telling stories in the way we presented our characters started having pretty dramatic almost instantaneous detaineees kind of positive reactions as you kind of pointed out by this time in fall of nineteen ninety-six you know in terms of your what your question was. How did it make me feel? It was validating because those changes that I envisioned that forced us to be different than the competition were beginning to manifest in higher ratings higher gates as you pointed out better pay per view buy rates and just general energy whether it's in the arena when we were putting on whether it was a pay per view or live evanger nitro whatever was whether it was the energy in the arena whether it was the energy in the Locker Kareem was the energy production staff who had previously for five or six years been walking around like whip puppies the just were defeated before they even got to work every morning they felt defeated. They felt unwanted. They didn't really feel like part of the Turner Organization because it was made clear to them that nobody nobody really wanted them to be on the in the catalog anyway and then all of a sudden to to completely turn that on its head and have people within Turner Broadcasting that all of them not the ones that were really important other than Ted but many of the people that up until that point in really WanNa will be seen hanging around with WCW people then really WanNa talk about ww as part of the Turner Organization all of a sudden those people were calling and asking for backstage passes and hey by kids you know needs to have somebody come and talk to the class could someone from WCW calm that had never happened before foreign is insignificant as that may seem from an organizational perspective. It was massive. It changed the way everybody felt not just the fans. The ants not just the talent but everybody from production to people that worked in the office to the security guard you know in the C. N. N. Center everybody felt different about the product and that I think was one of the most rewarding things and this time in particular is when it really be really became obvious to us and we started really feeling it for the first time what became obvious that the interview was a growing organization here as well on the August twenty six nitro. DRC shows up in the crowd and he's counting from four and then five the implication being he's the fourth member of the interview. Oh behind of course Scott Hall Kevin Nash Hulk Hogan That would make him the number four but then he shows the thumb meaning. Hey Fifth guy coming up allegedly according to the rumor Innuendo Saviozzi was supposed to be the fifth and maybe somebody else was supposed to be in there before and there's been some names that have been discussed Sean Wallman anti-british A and British bulldog. Do you remember having discussions about perhaps bringing bulldog in here absolutely none and that is no nothing disparaging urging it all meant in that statement but again casting now one thing that I did do well at least in the beginning in one thing that I learned very quickly and I want to be honest about this. It's not you know when when the whole N. W. O. Idea was just loosely forming in my head long before I knew Scott Hall on and Kevin Nash would even be available. I don't want to suggest that I had envision. This takeover. Hostile takeover group is this referred to here and I think it's important also now historically. I think we hear the term takeover used a lot. Now I don't know if this was the first time it was ever used but I think in terms of the context of how we introduced the NWF Scott Hall and Kevin Nash and establish the hostile takeover specifically typically on this pay per view. We branded fairly strongly. it might have been the first if not the first very close to it and I think it was probably one of the more at least at the very least if it wasn't the first time the hostile takeover kind of theme had been introduced Sports Entertainment. If it wasn't the first time it was was probably done better than any time previous to that but I don't want to suggest that I had this casting vision that I I wanted. Did you know the characters in this hostile takeover to be you know kind of the anarchists and street thugs abuse and the look that we ultimately came up with but once we saw Kevin once we saw Scott once the end wwl began to take shape and form you know we were careful at least in the beginning a about how we cast it now admitted this so many times on this show. I've talked about it at nauseam. Yes the end eventually grew too big. The casting became weaker and weaker and weaker but at the early stages when we're talking about the fourth of the Fifth Guy show-me woman was discussed because he was a natural fit if you're casting director in Hollywood and you were producing a movie on the WWL wwl you even if you didn't know who shown Waldman was as a as a performer he had that look he had that vibe about him and obviously with a character in the history that he had Wisconsin Kevin it was even more of a fit but British bulldog was a square peg in that round casting hole if you will there was no fit at all with British bulldog and there it was never a conversation about great talent valuable for former an amazing asset knock no question about that but not in that role we should also mentioned this is the nitro where Hogan Hall and Nash Attack Sting Luger in the horsemen basically leave him all laying and then Hogan spray paints in w on everyone except zipped Lex Luger and then spray spray paints like a black streak down the middle of ric flair's head and back amazing heat here one of the first times uh-huh that we get to see this spray painting all guys act and for whatever reason there's lots of people who always always sort of raise their hand and take credit for this thing or that thing but something a lot of people say that when it came to building heat for the interview oh every week on Nitro oh Kevin Sullivan was pretty hard to beat pretty integral in that process everything dimmer. No I would agree with that kind of I'm sorry to cut you off. I absolutely would agree to that in one of the reasons Kevin Sullivan came to WCW when dusty was was really booking early on when I took over management in WCW is does he said I need somebody that can that can book heat right now and that was that was Kevin s according wanting to dusty and I had you know I had no experience in creative you know when I took over. WCW Zero I hadn't spent five minutes creative meeting when I took over. WCW So it was all new to me and not by choice but out of necessity I had to rely on people that had more experienced than I did whether it was the talent in some cases or the booker who was in that chair that particular time and in this instance it was st roads and does he said when it comes to book and Heat Kevin is one of the best I will say that you know in watching this show as I told you offline before we started this broadcasts looking back at it yeah. There's some do-overs I wish I could do. There's some bad choices it clearly there are some and we'll get we'll talk about it but Kevin for his false which we all. Have you know. None of us are a hundred percent complete when it comes to creative Kevin Strength without question was booking heat and many of the the more successful finishes or beats or moments that really stand out when you look at the body of work you know that is the in wwl were generated if not completely by Kevin in large part by Kevin. I'm curious what you think today when you know wrestling is is thriving again whether it's Emel W or impact or Japan or you know obviously w W. and wwe and there's there's so much opportunity in the wrestling landscape. Why don't you think Kevin Sullivan is involved somewhere behind the scenes so as much as he's this book and created and thick as his resume is? It's like a natural fit for him to have a spot somewhere more freestyle guests as to why maybe that's it's not the cash you know I've thought about that myself. Especially after you know having reconnected with Kevin thanks to you at star cast and a couple of other events yeah I ran into the cavern and about a year and a half ago at star cast and that's really the first time Kevin and I had been in the same room together in over twenty years and it was such a great great opportunity to reconnect with Kevin and he is like all of us. I think he's got wiser probably able to reflect flecked back at some of the the choices you know that he made business wise and and personally and reflecting probably much better personnel way around you you know as a result of just getting older and wiser He's a very talented guy. I think he probably still could if he wanted to be and I think that's it's probably my answer. This Kevin Kevin Sutherland really want to be involved in the business again. He hasn't gotten he hasn't lost any feel he he. Maybe maybe he's been dormant for a long time. Trust me I know that feeling when you're not thinking about the business of the wrestling business especially on the creative side for five ten fifteen twenty years you know it's a little bit like ring rust. It doesn't come back overnight. It's not like you can flip a switch and be right back to where you were five ten fifteen twenty years ago in terms of your feel for what works and what doesn't work combine that with the fact that what works today today or excuse me what were twenty years ago or fifteen years ago or even five years ago won't necessarily work today so you too the things you have to do. If if I'm Kevin Sullivan and I was his manager I would say an and he said to me okay manager. I'm thinking about maybe breaking back into the business again and tapping in one unless time. How should I go about that I can tell you from personal experience just even most recently with wwe the first thing that I would do would be to immerse myself in the product that exists today? Look at what works today because a natural tendency for anybody is and I don't care how atop the top of your game you are and how active you may be in this business today. Your natural instinct is to go out to what worked recently light or five years ago or four years ago as a starting-point doesn't mean you're going to do it but as a starting point you're going to reflect back to and I think the same thing happens with movie producers and television producers. That's why we see so many you know the new whatever you know in the feature film business there were there rebranding reintroducing being hold brands. You know people go back to a formula that works in in I think in wrestling e for Guy like Kevin Sullivan or anybody else. It's been out of it for for a long time. I think you have to really understand what's working today and why it's working today and then start applying once you've kind of you know reengaged reengaged that creative muscle again in and cause that that muscle that in your brain that created much like the muscles in your body. There's a muscle so memory there. There's a creative muscle memory. I think that exists but before you start trying to use it you've got a condition. It and I think you have to condition it into in a way that allows you to really understand what's currently working and then start applying. I think some of the formulas that have worked for you in a Paso I think with Kevin Evan he's been out of it so long and I don't know and I certainly don't want to say anything that would offend Kevin but I don't know if he has the confidence because he's been out of it so long to re-engage. I don't know if he's waiting for somebody to give them a call and say Hey Kevin Yeah. We'd like to bring the Anna just have you give us some thoughts on on on how we might make our products better product or maybe he's just happy living warriors living and doing what he's doing and I can understand that too. That's also the big part of it as you get older and he settled into a good life when I talked to him at stark asked he was the head of a very good life living in you know in Washington he he likes being by the water. He likes fishing his. It's just always been his life and he's pretty content so he may not feel the need to. I don't know but I think he's a valuable asset. I I would agree and if he wants to do something I hope he finds a spot. Excuse me I don't know that he wants to but another Chris Jericho was I was looking for a spot and he dated a Byu here on August twenty six that same nitro that we talked about that ended with the end of you leaving everybody lying he's going to make his debut you against Alex Wright and of course most recently you've probably seen him on television and he did the when worlds collide pay per view with you guys and this is really his first the big break in that episode by the way does a four point three rating and a seven point to share so homerun episode to Wrap Up August for WCW and there's some other good news they restraining order hearing involving the WBF Lawsuit Against WCW for trademark infringement was found to be settled out of court. You guys were able to figure out a compromise and a consent order was signed by both sides and meltzer would say w should I be agreed to not have any employees or independent contractors who worked for the company Call Scott Hall Either Razor Ramon or the bad guy or call Kevin Nash either diesel or big daddy cool so in addition. WCW's not allowed to state that either hall or Nash currently work for the WWF since ww wasn't about to do that anyway it appeared to be you pretty much an amicable deal. Now I mentioned this because famously. It's GonNa come out that he has had some sort of internal memo where he referred to Scott Hall as razor and they're going to sort of hang their hat on that. What do you remember about hearing that Hey hey somehow got a hold of our memo and somebody at the office typed razor not Scott Hall and now they've got heartburn about it yeah the the WWF MC dividend his team got well through Discovery they were able to request all of our formats documents minson internal memos emails and all the things that go along with this type of litigation and they were able to find in a rough draft that was internal attornal only obviously that someone had referred to Scott Hall as Razor Ramon a razor we we did it happened? There's no way around it was there in black and white now. Let's put some context around that and I'm not trying to defend it or justified it. It is what it is. It was what it was however I think common sense would suggest that we knew do we were never going to present Scott Hall as razor or Razor Ramon on camera we didn't when he first showed up he was Scott Hall but as is often the case and this is just kind of something that happens in this unique little universe that we live in called sports entertainment or the professional wrestling at the time that out of respect you ten one. I should say one tends to refer to a Rustler's you referred to by their character name not by their first name and that's to me I I when I'm out in public in and and I'm with my friend Terry Belaya. I never call him Jerry. I always call them hulk. If there's just one other person in the room I refer to him as hawk. That's that that's that's not mark them. That's not fandom. That's respect and I think whoever was putting that one sheet or rough draft together together just kind of fell into that natural sociological kind of mandate date that you you refer to character as or an individual as their most recent character name so inadvertently the not with any intent to exploit that name or that trademark once that format where to hit air. It's somebody wrote down razer referring to to Scott Hall instead of referring to him as Scott Hall. I understand how it happened. Why it happened is I just explained? It was just kind of natural you know what I see talent today in WWe I I don't I don't refer to them by their real names refer to them by their character names. It's just what I've grown up learning to do. It's how I was trained. It's how I was conditioned in this business. It's it's like martial arts. You know when I first got really really involved in in martial arts. You were taught that anybody who is brown belt or above above you refer to them as Mr as a sign of respect because they've achieved a level of success or or a certain level of discipline I and in that and with that comes respect from lower belt rankings and to this day when I see seat Ernest Miller and if we're in a group of people he's not ernest. He's Mr Miller not because he was my instructor or not because of any other reason other then he he has attained a very high level of success in his sport and just the way I've been conditioned. I referred to him Mr Miller when I'm in public now. The same kind of thing is true in professional wrestling at least it was maybe not as much as it used to be but like I say I know how it happened and I know why it happened but it's it's kind of funny the WWF Juerg it's not funny it's understandable turmeric difference great lawyer and he was able to camp out on that and make a point in in in one on that point we should mention there is another legal issue sorta hanging out there Sean Waldman volley could leave and they agreed to give him a release but now because because of the way they've handled hall and Nash they're not really wanting to allow him to appear on TV and you use any of his old mannerisms or or dress the same way or look the same way. Obviously you know everybody knows you can't use the name one two three kid and allegedly he was going to be the guy who debuted before DRC but this legal wrangling meant that DRC would debut I instead what are you remember about them trying to tie Wallman here. I don't remember the details of it. I wasn't involved in it so the reason I don't remember is because I wasn't involved. I know that there was an issue but the details of that issue were being dealt with by probably Nick Lambros and Diana Myers at that time but I I know that there was a challenge and I know that it was it wasn't smooth transition. Let's put it that way I do. I do remember the one element of it. Is You know okay. We can't use one-two-three kid. We knew that that was is it like news to us but that's how he became six and that was my idea. It's like okay. Let's one two three the eagles six. Let's put it out a pool ball and now he's six. That's where that came from and I think incidentally he became the sixth member member as well so and work a few different ways he debuts right after this fall brawl show that we're talking about but I guess it's the next night on Nitro September sixteenth lengthened facts but allegedly he's ready to go and thinking he would be good to go hog wild back in August but all of this wwf back and forth nonsense sense delays it Mike today debuts as the third announcer on the September second nitro talk to me a little bit about Mike today and we haven't really spent much time talking about him on the show here. How does he I come to you? How do you become acquainted with him? And why is he the right guy for the third seats. Mike Today came aim to me through Breslau off the late Breslau who was pretty pretty close friend of Mine Zane used to love going to Las Vegas he used to love the gamble all on sports and might today was very active in that space at the time my Tony was also very knowledgeable bull wrestling fan when it came to all things going on outside of the US he really had a close watch on what was going on in Japan Dan he understood and was very knowledgeable about Lucia Lebron and the things that were going on in Mexico and Zane introduce reduce me to him and I was so impressed with his knowledge that really didn't exist in. WCW You know a lot of new of you know Lucci Ray we knew all of of what was going on in Mexico and kind of had a very very well we had a very little understanding of it all we knew it was going on we were familiar earlier with it but in terms of what was really happening and why and who is really influential in Mexico and why we weren't paying attention to it it just it wasn't it was Mike on the other hand was walking talking encyclopedia and I felt like that was missing. I knew that I wanted to introduce introduce a lot more international type talent in our in type. I want to introduce more international talent on our show. I wanted to bring in a lot more of the deluged doors for Mexico I wanted to bring in more Japanese and just bringing in the loser doors bringing in the Japanese just for the sake of bringing them in without being able to do a great job in the announce team on the announcing in telling their back stories in a lot being able to comment went on those performers in a way that allowed the audience to feel like they were learning something and all of a sudden you know care about some of his talent in a way that you wouldn't achieve if you just plop them out dropped him out in the middle of the ring and had a great match great a great badge but if you don't what if you don't know their backstory you can't make them relatable to to the audience that it's just no more than a great match and Mike was Fantastic at that he was I loved him being not a you know. You have a play by play guy who's really his play-by-play persons in my opinion is to help dramatically relay the story of what's going on inside of the ring and vern guy new used to tell me you know a good play by play man. is someone who could describe what's going on in the ranks so someone who perhaps was blind could imagine that match and your color commentator is there to do just that to provide color to give context to create emotion that may not be created in calling a match and describing what's really going on inside side of the ring in a in an exciting way obviously but you're caller commentator can kind of tilt that commentary and help tell those stories from a a protagonist kind of position or an antagonise position her baby face whatever you WanNa call it and just add life to the commentary but my feeling was a guy like Mike today could come in as the third man and really at a level of detail and back story history and context to the play by play and color in a way that would make the the the commentary booth a much more efficient and effective way way of painting the picture for audience from an from an audio perspective who are paint a picture for you right now and it's a picture about saving money. My friends ends when you switch to boost mobile. You'RE GONNA get more so much more that you're going to be surprised how much more at every turn about this it's because boosts doesn't offer just just one great thing and offers many great things like are super reliable super fast nationwide network but there's more about four lines for just twenty five dollars per line per month with unlimited gigs for data talk and text unlimited as even more though check this out four free. LG Stilo five phones with the whole family of course we're talking about boost mobile the switch that issue more and this is such a cool offer I I I don't know that I've ever even heard of unlimited gigs of data with with four lines and four free phones. This is power that making money on this. I don't know brother I since you last week the only way this deal could get any better is boost mobile was paying its customers to use service and I use this guy and he used to joke about that. I guess it's not really funny but in a way it is when things are really really tough vern either. I know how I can make more money. I'll get the wrestlers to pay me to be on my television show well. This is about the same thing I'm sure boosters in great shape but the only way that this deal could get any better is if the customers were being paid by boost to use it. I don't know how a deal can get in better. I really don't it's unbelievable. Wartime four lines twenty five dollars per line per month unlimited gigs of data. We're talking talk text the whole thing but there's more for free. LG Stilo five phones perfect for the whole family boost mobile the switch that gives you more offers coverage not available everywhere free phone requires port in additional terms and conditions apply visit boost mobile dot com for your nearest retailer for details. I just don't know how they're making I. I know we talk about business a lot here but I don't know how they're making money for that. Look ahead to check when we first got the copy for this a couple the weeks ago before I did this. I was paying more for just one line. I mean not not counting what everybody else is doing. I'm saving money. You will to boost mobile mm-hmm the switch that gives you more. Let's talk a little bit about The British pulled Argon. I know you said that there wasn't a plan for him to come into the end of you. Oh but I mean that's clearly a talent you'd like to have in. WCW and was reported multiple different ways. You guys were in negotiations here. In Ninety six the X. Course he winds up resigning with the F. instead what would the creative have been I mean he'd been with. WCW before and obviously you are in the middle it'll a little bit of a war what he had been on the WCW side of things in this interview war would he not really have participated in that angle at all think well there was no creative put in place prior to negotiations during negotiations looking back clearly he would have been when I say they clearly because he as we talked about earlier from casting perspective he would just would not have fit really on the NWF side but he to answer a question yeah I I can imagine he would very easily fit on the WCW side of the equation the real impetus and desire to sign David boy had a lot more to do with his value for us in terms of international touring so it wasn't as much of a creative decision necessarily not that that there wouldn't have been created for them and not that that wasn't important but the the reason that we really wanted to sign Davey boy Smith was because of his value internationally so it was more of a the strategic acquisition as opposed to a creative one talks to me about the giant you know we we haven't spent a ton of time talking about his situation here but just a couple of weeks after Hulk Hogan beats him for the title at Hog wild turns on Randy savage to join the end of you. Oh while the sudden turn for the giant lots of people including people you don't really like have sort of freestyle that maybe the original plan and was that Davey boy was coming into the interview and you've shot that down and when that doesn't happen and he winds up resigning with every half you feel like well we need to deliver liver another member and that other member becomes the giant and there would be some criticism that this is a swerve for the sake swerve a surprise for the sake of a surprise because he didn't sort of fit the mold of or coming down from the other company to take over. He was never with the F. talks talk to me about the giant and and do you think in hindsight maybe that was one. You wish you had back you know first of all that rumor rumor innuendo that suggested that Davey boy Smith was going to be a part of the N W was flat out Wong it just was in the same individual who last week when we didn't beat up on this too much but last week you know the same individual wrote you know in his dirt sheet that that the ready to rumble movie was really about the tragic circumstances surrounding Owen Hart. I mean that's that's what he reported and and nothing was further from the truth which is usually the case or so often the case in so much of what is reported in that kind of format a dirt sheet. It's just flat out wrong wrong so the premise of that rumor innuendo suggesting that well since Davey boy Smith wasn't going to be the fourth guy there's pressure on her Bischoff to deliver liver force guy so he just chose the giant is again fundamentally profoundly incorrect. It's just is so since the the entire premise of that rumor nyu it was false. I can only talk about why the decision was made which had nothing to do with the rumor Innuendo clearly. We knew we wanted to read a we wanted to have a war. We knew going. We knew we had something hot. We knew in order to have this. WCW Byu vs N W O war we had to build up the WWL Rosser you can't have a war when you've got a a roster of thirty five guys or forty five guys in WCW against against three guys in N. wwl I think even dirty writers could do the math and figure that one out so we knew going into this war premise in the the storyline that we had hoped would last for quite a while that we had to build a wrecks and the rationale behind Paul was to give of the NWF because they were outnumbered to give into bureau that one massive heater that won the giant that you know even though the odds may it'd be stacked against WCW WCW had the heavy artillery you know in addition to hall and Nash and and Obviously Hogan so that was the logic behind it. It was nothing to do with the pressure in the swerve and feeling to you know I know that's the underlying narrative that certain people like to write about or did back then but it just wasn't true it that wasn't true. It had nothing to do with the creative. It wasn't like I was trying to. I didn't wake up every Monday morning thinking okay. How am I going to swerve my audience tonight? I know that's the narrative because we did. We did use a lot of swerves. We did keep the audience guessing. If you notice you know one of the the things that launched this whole story line was who's the third man a big surprise a swerve yes and by the way it worked the underlying premise here or theme. I shouldn't say promised the theme here is WHO's. WCW's fourth man. We went back to something that worked. Yes we use a lot of diversions and a lot of swerves as they're called in a wrestling business misdirect if you want if you want to be more technical about it we use a lot of directs to keep the audience off balance and guessing again going back to the launch of nitro one of the things that came out of that. I'M GONNA go a little into the weeds here so be prepared one of the things that really really became crystal clear to me as we were developing the strategy and the creative strategy for Nitro business strategy and creative strategy was we did a tremendous amount of research we did focus groups all over the United States we did focus groups with current. WWF fans at that time we did focus groups with laps. WWF Fans we same thing with WCW fast current laps we did focus groups with people that kind of peripherally a few late they'll watch every once in a while but they weren't huge fans and over the course of a gun. I think we did this research. I don't know fifteen or twenty different cities it was there was a lot of work I was traveling all over the country doing it and we'd sit and we would watch these and there were some Times fifteen twenty twenty-five people in these focus groups of all age age you know all ages men women and we would they would watch a show for example they would watch. WWF show on tape and they would all be hooked up to these dial meters in these dial meters were all integrated together so that all of us from WCW or turn broadcasting who were sitting behind this one way mirror so that we could see out and they can see us. We were watching this focus group. Watch watch the product and while the product was while they were watching the product the the focus groups were instructed that when they saw something they liked turn the dial to the right they really love it. Turn it all the way to the right and pegged the meter if there was something that they didn't like turn into the left if they hated it just peg it to the left so what would happen as these down meters were integrated on a computer we could literally watch the average reaction of twenty five fifteen twenty twenty-five different people in a graph on our version of that same same show so we could look almost like minute by minute second by seconds we could see how the audience was reacting to certain interviews to backstage wjr promos. If you will to entering promos to action to the events at LE- led up to action so that you could really we get a sense of what the audience really enjoyed and out of all of that out of all of that research. I walked away with two two or three different in every every every focus group. You'd walk away with a little piece of information that you could apply you know. Research is something I'm going to go into the weeds even deeper here research is great. I'm a firm believer for in research the more data I have to work with the better I like it. However research can be a very dangerous? Things Wchs thing if it's in the wrong hands. It's like you know giving a five year old the loaded weapon you know if they don't know how to use it. It can be a horrible tragic. Adjective Event and research almost have the same devastating impact on a product if you have people if you have executives don't really understand how to apply that research then it can it can work against you so despite the fact that we got tons of data you know the two or three things things that I took away from that. There's probably more but let's say there's three things I took away from it won. The audience wants to be surprised they crave it when they're watching a wrestling show. Despite the you know four Star five-star mentality that is so prevalent in today's product the fee and maybe you know today's a little bit different. I'll admit that but back in the this period of time ninety five ninety six ninety seven ninety eight the wrestling audiences that we did massive focus groups abso- suggested to us that they really above all else they wanted to be surprised above all else they loved the tension attention right before the action and to kind of give you a parallel example of that. It would be like if you're watching a western amazing myself here but if you're watching A. Wester and there's always that scene in the old western from the fifty sixty seventy s whatever eighties where the two gunfires neatness the middle of the street at at at noon or whatever and there's a tension that builds right before you know somebody draws i. The same kind of love reaction happens in wrestling wrestling fans are focus groups back then things have changed admittedly back then it wasn't so so much the action that they appreciate it was the build up to the action those moments Conrad of you and I were coming face to face in the middle of the ring and you're the baby face and I was the heel the slower we came together and more tension we built in that one moment before one of us actually landed a blow that is the peak or was I should say that was the peak across the boards in our focus groups so yes I did. I tried to surprise the audience of course I did did I did I do which who often maybe I did but it it worked really well. As as we've talked talked about here in this era they really love cliffhangers they wanted. They wanted you to leave them wanting more not give them so much that they wanted less. So did I try as best I could as often as I could to create a show that rather than leaving leaving with a finish or leaving in a way that kind of put a period at the end of the sentence for that particular episode that I try to find ways to create eighty cents of a cliffhanger of course I did did I overdo it. You could argue that a by that. I'll take it but the surprise this or the swerve or the bist direct however you want to call it was something that the audience in our focus groups told us they wanted more of and yes. I did it a lot but not just because I was in the mood because I was informed by a vast amount of research that didn't come from dirt sheets sheets that that's what the audience wanted and had nothing to do with my personal taste and me just doing it for the fun of doing at Nance swerving the boys as an all that kind of worship that that's been floating around out there for twenty seven years so if you had to do over again you would still put the giant interview yeah. I think I would've yeah I would've again context at that time under those conditions yeah I would've do want to circle back something you said a minute ago 'cause I hadn't heard that I'm not saying it didn't happen. I just maybe I missed you. Read or heard somewhere that Owen Hart was supposed to be a topic in the movie not a topic topic of the movie hold on. I'm going to pull it up because I I saw last week to notes and I thought it was so unbelievable. Hold on as I'm scrolling. Let me tell you why you're scrolling when you go to box of awesome dot com if you're constantly on the go grinding away at the office hanging out with friends and there's not much time to think about upgrading your style or your apartment. That's all I can. I love getting new box also from spoke post every month you guys were scouting out for quality and unique products ascendant each box and now you you can experience the two at box awesome dot com and I just got a new box of awesome myself. They call it refresh. It's a classy DOPP kit. That's pretty cool. Oh Man when when the House the wife said who sent you that because with that cool and she thought and you don't have the taste to pick something out like that on your own made me look cool man box of awesome dot com do that for you to to get started visit box of awesome dot com answer a few short questions and that will help them get a feel for the boxes that will go with your style. Whether you're looking for the perfect drink or well-kept pat or just jet-set now how spoke post improves your life one box at a time and check this out. Each box goes for under fifty bucks but there's more than seventy dollars worth of stuff inside really cool unique gear waiting just for you the first of each month you'll receive an email with all your box details and then from there. 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His podcast bag is the weekender bag from bespoke post. It's a cool bag. He gets compliments every goes. You're GONNA love it. Check it out box of awesome dot com okay so I find my notes from last week and I did to your point. I did speak. I did Miss B but here let me read it to you this from Dave Meltzer and again from last week's show now. I'm reading from your notes here. The wrestling movie which by the way was called Roy ready to rumble is was far too long meaning. It couldn't be dropped. This was all within the context of me leaving. WCW and some of the ideas that I brought to to the table that presumably were dropped because now I was gone but the movie according to Meltzer was far too long and will be produced next month Bischoff who was to star in the movie as something of a Vince McMahon character now keep in mind. I was the heel authority figure before Vincent man was the Heel Authority figures so to suggest last or imply that I was trying to become a vincent man version of WCW is kind of inauthentic or Horse Shit just from the get go but Eric Bischoff was to star in the in the movie as something of Vince McMahon character in a terribly scripted story based on what what happened to breath heart now to win heart Bret Hart now while I misspoke and said Oh and heart the fact that it was a according to Dave Meltzer in in again this is something by the way I'm going to try not to be too aggressive here or too much worse his ass but it but it but honestly if you're going to write something about a movie first of all the movie wasn't my idea as I said last week Warner Brothers came to me I I didn't go to Warner Brothers. This wasn't the you know the the the rumor and Innuendo and rumor and Innuendo easy for me to say and the narrative specifically by Meltzer at the the time was that I wanted to be a Hollywood guy. Okay Warner Brothers came to me and said we want to do this. Movie okay that that wasn't you know what I mean. What am I supposed to have said no Jesus? That's a bad idea. I don't WanNa take that to my bosses because that would make it look like I'm actually working with super mega entertainment powerhouse. That's about to invest in US and acquire us so I'm GONNA. I'M GONNA camp out and say no Dave Dave meltzer might not like it but anyway the movie was too far along and we'll be produced next month the Vince McMahon based on what happened to Bret Hart. Nothing is further from the truth nothing and if Dave Meltzer was even pretending to be a journalist or pretending to have a modicum of credibility it would have been very easy for him to find out what the movie script was about. He was too fucking lazy to pick up the phone and do the work so instead he went with the narrative that Eric Bishop because he wanted to be a Hollywood guy his got Warner Brothers to do a movie script about what happened to Bret Hart profoundly telling about Dave Meltzer's credibility not only then but now we'll just let it go at that here. We thought we'd get through a freaking episode without having to get into this shit and I leaned into it I did. It's my fault. It's it's my bad I couldn't I couldn't lead out of this. We could have gotten by the so easily but but it just still drives me crazy how people so many many people believe the Horsh it that these people right because they have their own little personal you know in for their own insecurities insecurities they've got their own agendas and they you know they have a platform and they put this stupid shit out there and unfortunately people read it and they believe it well people did believe believe is that razor in diesel coming back to the WWF on the Friday edition of Monday night raw because they called it rawls championship Friday Tayer Championship Prodi Rohr whatever Jr is saying that diesel and razor are coming back to the WWF of course he doesn't say Scott Hall or Kevin Nash Owning the names diesel and razor and he says the breaking story. We talked about earlier in the show that I really believe will be the big story of the year here in the World Wrestling Federation is this big daddy cool diesel and the bad Guy Razor Ramon or on their way back to the world wrestling federation I have that on good authority from some very reliable sources and Kevin Kelly would respond unbelievable news. Jr what a huge story that would be Jr reiterates Maas sources tell me and they've been very reliable sources. It had them for years that this in fact is the big daddy cool and Razor Razor Ramon and they're on their way back to the World Wrestling Federation that is awesome. I mean as oh awesome. I just love it well behind the scenes of course you know Scott Hall and Kevin Nash of Particularly Kevin Nash of double down on the idea that when you heard this you panicked a little thinking that oh no we never officially signed these guys contracts you just had deal memos maybe we need take them contracts and put a little more cheese on their Burger Forum Kevin Good Friends of mine and and a Oh Gosh I can't remember what event it was but about six months ago we were together the three of us you're at the for the love of of wrestling over in the UK now is no it was here. It was a domestic one here here in the states. It doesn't matter where it was but we we did a panel together and there was a one hundred fifty hundred people in the audience. I guess give or take and you know you get quite when you're sitting there. All three of us are sitting there and you you get these questions about things that have been said over the over the years and sometimes we contradict each other Kevin Remembers things one way. I remember them differently. Scott Gallery members things one way. I remember them differently. It happens. You know I it to this day. Some of my best friends have recollections of things that I don't think ever happened put and I'm sure that I have recollections of things that are substantially different than than some of my friends but nonetheless we get out when we're in a live situation or quote unquote shoot interview and we try to be as entertaining and as interesting and recall things the way we do or the or the way we think we recall call them and there's always a conflict I will tell you that I did not panic. They were under contract. There were no deal memos and by the way a deal memo is a binding ending is a binding two forms at your mom's one binding non-binding ours were binding deal memos meaning you you agree to all of the fundamental title terms of an agreement you sign it anticipating a long form to come at a later date long-form off and take a long time to draft but if you have all of the principal elements of deal agreed upon and it's a binding letter of intent or a binding deal memo than this is legal as any contract acting would prevent anybody from leaving anywhere so for whatever reason they may have suggested either to either because the way they remembered it or possibly to be more interesting in an interview for them to suggest that I was in a panic would be incorrect. I can tell you if I can tell you if I was in a panic or not and I was not in a panic. They weren't living inside of my head any more than they tell you back in on this date nineteen ninety-six whether whether I was hungry for pizza or pineapple so you know to suggest that I was in a panic because these guys weren't locked up contractually in my opinion from my perspective is factually incorrect well here's something that is factually correct me gene says his goodbyes and he's saying goodbye to a lot of the company early in this week on the way to fall brawl and on Thursday morning all. WCW employees in the office get in a memo saying that Oakland is no longer with the company and he does appear on the pre show and the countdown package for the pay per view but by that point he's no longer with the company meltzer would say between Oakland's base contracts in his cut of the nine hundred law and it was believed that he was earning somewhere in the neighborhood or four hundred and twenty grand a year here was looking for a raise depending on which store you choose to believe Oakland either a few weeks ago over the past few days spoke with with ran about coming back but not a lot of interest shown on that side uncle and had been playing the going to tighten card and negotiations with WCW and since the Titan Card has been played Oakland is expected to come back to the negotiating initiating table with WCW and most field. There's a good chance he'll end up returning. Jj Dylan is one of the key talent liaisons and booker's in the world wrestling Dunk Federation resigned on Thursday afternoon the same day this memo comes out about mean Jean no longer being with the company and we've we've talked a little bit about both of these things but I do find that interesting then they sort of both happen on the same day and other parts of the country. What are you remember about mean Jean you know leaving? Obviously he's GonNa come right back not too terribly long. After as Meltzer have the assessment of correct he was playing the I'm I'm floatin with Titan and I need more money and you called his bluff and then there was no deal there. Yes I think think for the most part he he does. I will say I wasn't handling genes negotiation. Despite again the perception it's not even rumor innuendo but the perception that every deal that came that was signed by WCW was a was a deal that I negotiated personally is not true I I may have chimed in on certain elements of a deal if it was something unusual to come but for the most part deals were negotiated associated by Turner legal had nothing to do with me now when it came to the financial side of it the you know how it affected my budget and so forth with of course I had input on that but in terms of the actual negotiation up you know day to day back and forth and dealing with agents and attorneys there there were a couple of instances where I was involved and sometimes directly but for the most part I was ten gentle to the process in jeans case I really wasn't part part of the process but I think the I think the way Dave described. There's probably generally pretty accurate. I know there's a lot of meat on the bone about JJ AJ Dylan and and we'll talk more about that a little later but did you know how quickly after he resigns with Vince did you know that he was available and or interested before same day soon. After how did you learn about it and what we told you I didn't. Jj Dylan was no disrespect to JJ. I'm not trying to be a smart ass or say anything to receive at anyway. Somebody intent but I just didn't know who he was. and Kevin Nash came to me probably the day he was let go or shortly thereafter Kevin Nash she came to me because we did need somebody talent. Relations talent relations was a weak spot in in on our management team. You know Taylor enough said that was our kind of talent relations guy you. We knew that that was a weak spot. It's impossible in my opinion. It was impossible for me to find somebody a former talent a former wrestler that you could take out of that wrestling category now groom them to be management because most most talents have very difficult time and eventually can get there but most of them have a difficult time with their transition from being one of the guys in the locker room to now being management. It's a very uncomfortable spot to be in. We've talked about that before it even even even as a writer or as they used to call them booker's you know ric flair was put in an impossible position because he had so much legacy as one of quote unquote the the boys than to take control over people's lives creatively put him in a horrible spot that he just didn't function while under well the same thing is true. I think when it comes to new talent relations you know you it's really difficult to go from being one of the quota Gua- boys to be the boss and for that reason when Kevin Nash came to me and said hey you know. Jj Dillon has been doing this Roland. WWF and he's good at it and you guys have respect for him and Blah Blah Blah. Johnny's not one of the boys at least hadn't been a long time you know and I'm not gonNA. I'M NOT GONNA get into all all of the details here but there was two reasons that I brought him in one because I needed somebody to fill that role and to because I really felt like at that time of his life. Jj Jj needed a great opportunity and because he was in the business and I know how hard it is for people first of all it's hard in in this industry. It's hard to find people I'll say in nineteen ninety six thousand nine hundred seven hundred ninety eight the way the the wrestling industry was managed in the way it operated back then it was hard to take somebody from the outside of the industry unless it was legal or finance finance or some other aspect of the business it is more traditional across other businesses but when it came down to the nuts and bolts in the inner workings workings of the professional wrestling industry it was hard to find people that could fill certain roles and talent relations is one of them so I needed somebody that could fill that role Jay had previously done that role in. WWF Kevin Nash gave me an endorsement and again after talking to jj and even Kevin the one kind of took me offers to what Jj's you know. Personal situation was like. I thought you know what the hell it. We kind of. Check all the boxes. It's it's kind of the right thing to do from my perspective at the time it was the right thing to do generally and you know there's a couple of other reasons. I need to check these boxes and he he seemed to be the guy to fit the bill so yeah I hired him shortly. After he left I don't know if it was a day or two or three but it was pretty soon after he left. Wwf let's let's talk a little bit about the angle that really sold this pay per view the Monday prior is a big show the September ninth nitro the go home home nitro before this pay per view and there's a limo outside. It's raining million dollar man's out there with his umbrella and lex Luger as wanting to know who's in this limo because we assume it's it's the W. O. And we hear stings voice coming from a limo. DB OSCE gets out Luger's there and here stinks. I something like I'm I'm tired of this stuff this. DTA stuff don't trust anybody. He's got to go. You know why you have to learn to trust somebody right now. You've got no way out to the you. Trust him or you. Don't look at me in the eye you know I'll look at you guys and you know you can trust him and then of course stinging attacks lex Luger and this is a really really cool angle. I remember watching this live when it happened thinking. What the hell am I seeing Hogan and sting are bad guys now? I gotta buy this damn pay per view now of course the war games is supposed to be the original three members of the W Hogan Scott Hall Kevin Nash and a fourth man against what we believe to be not just the four horsemen it was maybe it was the original idea but now it's rick and Orne the to sort of stalwarts of the horsemen and stinging lex Luger the the franchise Chaz baby faces of the organization and of course in reality. This isn't Steve Borden. It's Jeff farmer who is previously wrestled ASELTON. WCW's Cobra and he's dressed up like staying and this entire week a lot of fans myself included the holy shits things finally finally a bad guy can't believe this is real. How did the WHO I realized hey jeff former under the paint with the with the right tights and boots and jacket he could pass for staying here is that is that who sees them Jeff Farmer Guy? You're going to ask you that question ever trying to find Jeff farmer farmer I I was with Jeff. We had lunch together in Tokyo right in a restaurant right up right next to the Tokyo Dome back in February and we reminisce I'm an is an and I wished I would have asked him. You know where that idea really originated because as we've said here before most ideas are a collaboration right. You know somebody says hey if we do this and read. What are we doing blue well? Let's run blue. Hey purples great but this is such a important pivot point in this story. You know the fake sting that when I'm going to do I promise you by next week. I'm going to have the answer in fact I may even petition. I know we don't do interviews on the show. I may even petition that we asked you farmer to join us for just a few moments and and describe how that all went down because I always wanted it wasn't my idea. Let's make that clear. It would be really easy for me to say oh I did that. It wasn't my idea somebody somebody came to us. When I say US I mean the creative team and said hey this might work now? It could have been Terry Taylor could have been Kevin Sullivan Kuban Jeff Farmer himself. I don't know but rather than saying I don't know I want to get to the bottom of it in if it's possible to have jeff in his own words enlighten us as S. a. how that really happened because so often like we talked about before you know people remember things different ways and some of it is just because time has passed and you tell the same story over and over and over you give the same answer over and over and over again and you tend to try to find ways to make it a little more interesting than the way told the last time and sometimes forces you or or creates a situation where you're kind of veering off the factual path a little bit and I don't WanNa do that with this. I'm going to say for the record. I don't know it wasn't my idea but we will get to the bottom of it and hopefully next week. We'll talk about it really really great stuff. Go Out of your way to watch this this. This bill is just phenomenal and you're putting over you know that this is the most disappointing thing you've seen in your six years with. WCW You you're doing a great job selling here on commentary as everybody is and it sold me on the pay per view. This was my first pay per view purchased back as a wrestling fan I didn't I didn't decide to pick up summer slam or Hog Wild or in your house mind games for the competition here in September but I did not miss this one man and and I it was this angle the help sell it. I am curious though you know wh- whether other ideas for the the sort of fake sting king concept before or is this really the first time you heard it because it does feel like something that you know with the Blackhawks in being attempted before you were really there. Maybe it could have been a retread but could have also been you know bizarro sting type thing that we had seen before with the undertaker in the under faker and that type of thing it was the first time I had heard it now. I was aware of the Black Scorpion because it was kind of a tongue in cheek. We don't joke that that I had heard it happened before I got the WCW originally but nonetheless the legend of the Black Scorpion lived on as a punchline so I I was aware of it as a result of that but the idea you know the way it was presented again. I can't wait to find out exactly where it started but the way it was presented to me felt fresh and it was a good idea I mean we knew the reason we did it is because we had looked at Jeff in in his his fake sting gear. We knew that we could we could fool the audience you know by that time. Sings hair had grown dark. You know he wasn't bleaching it blonde anymore. Physically they were very very close and because of the face paint it wasn't that difficult to you know to pull this off and when we saw jeff farmer in his fake stink year it was like Holy Shit we can make this work and even even going back and watching this for the first first time you know because it was part of the cold open of the pay per view I what the hell probably it's like you did because again my mind was thinking where we the ad what's the story line I didn't I didn't immediately call back to where we were at fall brawl ninety six so when I saw that the cold open I'm thinking what in the hell were we do we wear and then after a few seconds and all kind of fell into place made sense but the if you put jeff farmer in Histon gear and sting interesting gear side-by-side side by side from ten feet away was you you'd be hard pressed to pick them out unless you knew them both really really well and with you know camera work and lighting and so forth we knew we could pull it off so if it were yes I knew about the undertaker and I knew about the Black Scorpion. I knew about all that stuff but to me they weren't there was no risk of falling into either of those categories. It's amazing to me too when you really think about it you know the WWF is going to get crapped on so hard for this whole fake razor fake diesel thing ah but then sort of teas that until Friday of that week but that Monday you're presenting your own fakes thing right away so you're beating them to the punch and you're doing much more effectively because nobody hated this. This was very very well done and we should mention that the wrestling observer reader poll only gave the the readers. I only gave this a forty five percent thumbs up for this fall brawl which really shocked me because I don't know maybe I'm just nostalgic about this show because it was my first show back doc but gets thirty five percent thumbs down. I totally disagree with the readers of the Observer on this one. I love this show. Just because of this particular storyline let's get into the show first match on the Card Diamond Dallas page chabot Guerrero Junior it feels like dominoes page opened every pay per view for about thirty two years with WCW thirteen thirteen minutes and then of course you know what's going to happen diamond cutter in just a few months he's going to have an opportunity to landed diamond cutter on the N. W. O. and he's a made man in January of ninety seven but we're still working to get there in September of Nineteen ninety-six meltzer locked though every three and a half stars and he says has that page was really impressive and carrying Guerrero who is still very green. Although we have potential they called shockingly good but maybe it went a few minutes too long long. What'd you think for the most part I think most batches go a little too long but I think this one did? I think you know as I was watching the match this morning. again watched pages entrance and again as you pointed out this is before the kind of remake he was hard for me to watch that entrance you know that old. DDP character Kinda gala nerves but once the bell rang you know the working the ring was really pretty. Good a little sloppy you know there was a couple of times throughout the match at things that are a little bit off I think part of that was still as good as DDP was at this point as much as he had vastly improved at this point people need to remember he was still pretty new at this. He may have been a little older older than most people but in terms of his time in the ring and trainy you know depending on who you talk to I would say he was still pretty green himself but he did it very very good job and I thought the same for travel I mean Chavez. Oh you know we we gotta look at you. Know one the reasons why China will not travel out to be a great performer. He did a lot of exciting things. He worked well with page. Some of his aerial stuff was a a little less less than Chris but there was a lot of it that was so I thought overall it was. I don't know if I thought highly of it is is Dave Meltzer it did but I thought it was a pretty solid batch yeah. I don't know that we're all the way there's parts of the show that feel like it's very much. WWe Evolution Aleutian like it's it's not peak. Ww but it's real close but you can still feel some things that are still hanging onto like ninety four ninety five maybe early ninety six six Diamond Dallas page here for instance doesn't have near the gimmicks that he did just a year prior year prior he was like smoking a cigar and had a toothpick in his mouth and issue and gum and sunglasses and rings on every finger and tape and self hyphen and banging and he just hey walking souvenir stand but here he's he's on his way the next match though that's a little out of place as ice train and Scott Norton Jordan they were attacking called Fire and ice for about that long and now they're breaking up and we're going to put these two behemoths and a submission match because when I think ah strain I think of a fucking submission match star and a quarter teddy long looks like he's been sucking on an air hose Estonia Shivani with I didn't even recognize him here. What did you think of the match and we offer refunds to anyone who purchased this all this time later because I feel like you owe me? At least I five dollars for having orange this one as such a bad thing to say a so mean meaning bitter two big guys we've talked before about a rustling buffet. Some people still love those larger than life. You know I don't WanNa say cartoonish but you know animated type characters characters in come on. This is the worst match on the show worry. No no no. I'M NOT GONNA. I'm not suggesting that wasn't wasn't the worst matching wasn't a great mash but some people like watching watching big powerful well. I mean I it's it's aspirational you you you live through characters. You know some people do and so people were wish you know you're sitting at home. One hundred twenty pounds rocks in your sockets Iraq said your pockets and oxen your sockets that sounds horrible but with rocks in your pockets your one hundred twenty pounder and you wish you two hundred eighty five pound guy with twenty four arms and that's what these two guys represented was was it a great match for people that love great matches absolutely not arguably it was may have been the worst match on the card for many people but for some people who like watching these big powerful larger than life character characters beat the hell out of each other. Perhaps they enjoyed it. Not Everybody that goes to the buffet likes anchovies but for those who do they do so. This is my anchovy batch. Let's move on. I love that you're trying to sell it and just hurry it along. The the wrestling observer readers agreed with me worse match on the show and you're maybe onto something with the buffet and maybe it's time we talk about the buffet. You're you're offering your dog. 'cause you're serving up some dog food here with this offering. Wonder why every dog food pretty the bag is or the brand or the price so sort of like dry smelly burnt brown pellet. Why don't we feed this stuff to our beloved pets for every meal of their life well L. now? We don't have to thanks to the farmers. The farmers dog makes it easy to feed your dog real fresh food actual food that you can see smell well if you really want to you can take the delivered it right to my house exactly when I needed it and I just retried into the fridge open and poor there's real real. USDA FRESH VEGGIES and I love my dogs Turkey recipe with carrots and spinach. There's no wondering what's in my dog's food because I can actually see the ingredients every time and the farmer's dog worked with top vets to make sure their food has a complete and balanced diet for your dog so you you know they're getting the nutrition they need to Brown. It's been pre portioned for them. 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My Mississippi and and myself is much part of our family as any other family member we love our dog and I spend as much time with my doctors. I possibly again and her health is really critically important to me and I spent the last four years doing a tremendous amount a matter of research on dog food because so often you know if you just go by commercial food in the store. You really don't know what's in it. There's a lot of filler. There's a lot of horrible stuff in most dog foods or many dog food. I should say and even the super high quality ones up until I I started getting my dog's food from farmers dog. I'm not gonNA name the name brand because it's a good quality brand and I was paying a lot of money. Ninety four is it was a dry dog food and I had done a lot of research. I talked to breeders Tucker vets and I really did my homework defined the very best food I could buy my dog it and even that dog food because it was a dry dog food in order for it to dry it has to be cooked and unfortunately when you cook dog food to to create a dry product the heat in the cooking process destroys or eliminates a lot of the nutrients that went into the formula align so you put together a great formula to create this really high quality very expensive dry dog food then you have to heat it up in the manual for manufacturing process in order they put it in the bag and sell it and at the final stages as you as you cook it to put it in the bag you're killing off almost all the nutrients or many of the nutrients at least so so on paper it looks like a great product in reality by the time it gets into your dog's bowl not so much so as far as you know signed auto become a sponsor they sent us for shipment and said here try it up. Make sure you like it and I did the research on farmer stock and their ingredients and was really really comfortable comfortable with it and obviously it's shipped fresh frozen but it gets your home frozen still completely one hundred percent filled with nutrients that it was packaged in and you you you know we thought out refrigerator and we feed to our dog fresh and our dog absolutely loves it now. We didn't have breath issue but I will tell you not to get super graphic. It's not what people are interested in but you know cleaning up after a dog is a lot easier without going into graphic detail. Hervey tabacum seems to be much more regulated and consistent and she's just a happier doc so I'm a firm believer in this product. I'm a firm believer in Oliver sponsor's products because you're you're not get the test them. We don't promote things that we don't like we don't believe in but this is one. That's real high up on my list. I have a friend who has tried the this the food and his dog had allergies and so he just thought that his dog had hours. He's got his all over in. You could see like this coloration on the skin Dan and within like six weeks of using this new food. It's completely gone. I'm not saying that's going to be the results for you. Just saying this is good stuff. It's really helping our dogs. You should check it out. If you have your dog you're GonNa love the farmer's dog because the farmer's dog a smarter healthier pet food and they make it as simple as possible to give your dog a better diet starts to trial today. Go to the farmer's dog dot com slash eighty three weeks and you'll get fifty percent off. Get Free Shipping. I can't believe that's real guys. The the farmers dot Gov dot com slash eighty three weeks fifty percent off your trial plus free shipping. Why wouldn't you do it? The farmer's dog dot com slash eighty eighty three weeks let's get to our next match and this was an interesting one. who've into Guerrero's here what am I guilty pleasures the WCW absolutely love his work. He's going to be challenging Conan for the Mexican heavyweight title now in reality if the AAA title but she has a referring to it as the Mexican heavyweight title I really liked this match Conan and and who've been too but I love these performers and there's one power bomb in here. This is devastating I it's it's a cool contrast of of Conan as a as more of a power move guy and and who've until you really showcase all of his incredible hotspots really really good stuff tough. I dug it. What'd you think I do too and I think the bump you're talking about if you're GonNa Watch? WWE Network I picked it up at about forty three minutes and seventeen seconds seconds ran through forty three minutes and thirty seconds let me take back that bump occurred about fifty minutes is is when it took place I loved it. I thought it was a great match. the only again as I said at the beginning of the show there's some things I wish I could go back and do over having Conan in the dungeon of doom and having Jimmy out there and his fluorescent Hulk Hogan Gimmick with a megaphone is about is out the places anything I can imagine in my life. I wish I could pull that back. I wouldn't have changed anything about the match I just wouldn't have Jimmy Hart out there dancing around like you know like he just jumped out of a clown car. That's the only thing that kind of rub your own. It was just nothing against Jimmy against what you know some of the great things that he's done in the past but again really really bad casting here didn't make any sense Conan into the dungeon of doom made absolutely no sense. They're gonNA do more all cartoon characters and if you look at Conan in the ways being presented here uses a street guy he's an og as he referred to himself. It's just you know just so bad but aside aside from that the match itself phenomenal I loved it. There's also a spot in here in this match. Where Conan who've you make great use of the two rings? I don't remember what the movie was but he's he's jumping. He does like a springboard from the outside to that rope then over to the other corner and then I mean so it's like from rope to rope to rope movies just moving around and it's funny because when I watched it this week I had I love this paper you so much I invited some friends from out of town to come. Watch it with me and we made a night of it and it was finding one of my buddies from art. Why did Conan just stand there and I said Fuck? Nobody could predict what hoover he was GONNA do. I didn't know he's bouncing around. You're just looking at him. Like what the fuck is he. Where's where's it going and then why am trouble drop hit great stuff? It was really fun to watch. It's just made me. I wish I would have appreciated it more in the moment. Sometimes you don't appreciate things until after for it happens in this case. I don't think I always enjoyed movie in his matches. maybe because you know the issues and the challenges that that came along with him personally kind of affected the way I looked at his performances but you know as I look back now you know twenty seven years later what a great masses was who he was a great performer a former I think this was an excellent match up to different contracts styles but both out of the Lucia you know genre. If you will or category category I loved it. I loved everything about it except for except for the dungeon of doom part really really good stuff out of your way to watch this one we should mention we're on a roll here. The first match with DP CHABOT got three and a half stars is training Scott Norton not as good star on a quarter but this one gets three and three quarter stars and the hits keep coming man. I can't believe this is real but Chris Jericho fresh off of his debut is about to make his. WCW Pay per view debut and he's taken on Crispin Wa the fourteen minutes and thirty six seconds unbelievably great match four stars early Jerko early been wa but man everything and I know this is people get weird about talking about Benoit matches but he had such snap on everything that he did everything just looked believable. Wall and impactful and full-bore man really really fun to watch. I dug this one. What did you think same I mean I just Lau Chris Jericho Fan? I've always loved his work. You know we've had our ups and downs over the years personally but that goes with the territory good friends with them now and all all that but you know I love going back in Washington early Chris Jericho. I love his car stuff. You guys reinvented himself you know over and over and over again every time he does. He seem up up his game to a new level a different character and I think that's amazing testament to who Chris Jericho is but I will go back having said all that in putting them overs over as much as I possibly can I'll go back and say to me this is this is Chris Jericho. This is Chris Jericho that as a character I fell in love with as a talent and I went holy Shit. This is the next evolution and went on to be the next evolution or one of but this match is so good and because of both guys you know because of Chris certainly because of Chris and because of Christians Christian wa I mean they were both his are ever been. Anyone sends crispin was awkward as it is to put him over and let's forget about for the moment not forget about. Let's set aside for for the purposes of this discussion. The horrific way his life in his fam- family's life ended set off to the side for a moment and analyze the work in the ring. has there been anybody nobody since Christmas wa that has been able to consistently deliver the kind of crispness in believability and ring work that been brought to the table now occasionally not every now and then every time every time with no matter who is wrestling no matter who it was you put them in there with all Koga you put them in there with Kevin Nash you put him in there with Ramos Zero you put him in there with tugboat. Whatever it's an example Zampa not an actual match you could put him in a in a match with anybody and he would deliver at least on his end up performance? It was so crisp in so believable achievable almost didn't matter who he was working with so amazing yeah if if you can watch been wall matches mouths word right this from our technical wrestling wrestling standpoint this was the best match on the card and as good a match as you'll see anywhere so really really high marks and continues again. I can't believe this streak continues Ramos mysterious looking to retain his cruiserweight title in fifteen minutes and forty seven seconds over Super Calo who believe debuted in like the prior thirty or forty eighty five days on Saturday night and he's got a title shot here and that's not a good match. It's another great match four stars and it does a little weird appeared that Super Calo is getting a title shot but I'm glad he did because the result is bad ass and I don't know that we spent a lot of time talking about Super Calo but he really really showed what he was capable of here and this young Nineteen ninety-six Ramos Aereo is still even now unlike anything anybody seen before just another level the finish and hurricane run into the pin combination outstanding really really good showing I douglas what say you dug it as well and one for the reasons I liked it as much as I did is it wasn't the Lucia it was the psychology and the ring action was more grounded. I think there was a lot of stuff in there. There were a lot of great high spots in there are a lot of great Ramos cereal moments in this match and calum moments but it was very well balanced with some great kind of crowded ring work as well and psychology oftentimes oftentimes when you get two great stars they would bring you know the most aerial aspects of their art form to their match and it's spectacular watch but sometimes the story and the psychology got kind of marginalized in the process this had great psychology and I felt a great balance balance between the kind of high flying aerial you know Louis style presentation along with just good grounded pound storytelling so I I loved it for for that reason. Go Out of your way to watch it and just really really good stuff a stereo in his promises hard to beat an unbelievably hits. Keep coming. We're on quite a streak. You're on the UNDERCARD card. The Harlem Heat retain the tag titles against the Nasty Boys and fifteen minutes thirty one seconds and I know what you're thinking okay gas Mistero Been Wa Jericho Co.. WHO'VE UNTUTORED CONAN AREN'T I'm getting that this is a good wrestling show but you're GONNA put over Harlem Heat and the Nasty Boys yes? We are even meltzer debt. He said after the previous two matches this figure to hold up but it was a surprise and he would even say a surprisingly good match ending when Sherry Kane over knobs head booker not pinned him. This is the Sheree of old. She's got a lot of heat going in this match. It's a good brawl and it is definitely a contrast you know you had had some flippant and flying in the last match. This is just ask kicking three and a half stars worth there is a fun moment on commentary though Remember Harlem he or the Champs and Bobby says something like it does no good for heat to try to win by count out. You can't win the titles on account out but they're already the champs three and a half stars. What did you think that was a great match? A Lotta great moving pieces in this Sherri Martel you know as I said you know in recent weeks I think is probably one of the more underrated performers are under appreciated performers over the last twenty or thirty years. She was a great character. She could do it. All she was great on the Mike she could get heat in the ring you she could. She could be sexy. She could be provocative. She could beat ass-kicker she she could do it. All she had a great range and I think that's one of the things that so often talent. You know doesn't pay enough attention to you know you you can you may be great at certain type of character you know for a year or two but you gotTa have range. If you're going to have longevity you've got to be able to do it all and you have to be able to tell different stories with your character or be able to be inserted into different types of stories because you have the ability to adapt to your situation nations and I think Sherry because he had so much rain and because she was so capable and so many different ways in this you know I I can't say this was Sherri Martel artillery peak because I didn't work with Sherri Martel. WWF and I'll be honest I didn't watch her a lot in WWF early WWF but I can't say in terms of our relationship relationship with Sherry this might have been sherry at her peak she was she was awesome and I think that's one of not the only one of the reasons this match was as well received as a was was because you had some great moving pieces you sherry with with all of the great things she just brought as we just described as she brought to the table yet. Harlem Heat was in there working asses off and they were in there with the nasty boys and everybody's got opinions about the nasty boys because they were all friends and you were kind of one dimensional themselves. They weren't able to have a whole a lot of different types of matches were technicians by any stretch of the magic nation but in a match like this there were two the toughest bastard you could ever put it in a ring. You know Brian Announce could take some abuse Jerry sags one tough. Sob and in a match like this. I don't think he could have cast it any better and again and was Sherry out there and the story that they were telling I I had like so many when I saw this oh I saw this all. We're going to have to cover over this batch. Oh my God it's going to be painful. Conrad's GonNa Make Fun of me. He's going to beat my ass put dispatch on the pay per view and then I watched it when Okay Brigham Big Man Yeah Uh really really good stuff man I we've talked about it before but the nasty boys have always been a bit of a guilty pleasure for me. I think the the bad rap when it comes to brawling ass ask kicking mass. They're about as good as it gets and I like a lot of other folks for further. He'll stuff over the baby face south but we do need to. I guess we should probably mention right now. Maybe haven't seen Brian knobs going through a tough time right now. It's like you need so full knee replacement and he set up a gofundme man. They're more than halfway there but every little bit helps so if if you're a fan of the nasty boys back in the day check it out on go fund me and Brock could easily hot tag action right now our main event is coming up but first we've got at the giant and Randy savage and we mentioned a little while earlier that the giant was on the WCW things of course he just dropped the world title to Hulk Hogan a month month prior Hog wild but joined the bureau by turning his back on Randy savage. They'RE GONNA go seven minutes and forty seven seconds. the giant gets the win here. The military would say the match had a lot of heat was well put together but the finish was lame. Savage has body slammed the giant gives them the off the top and if this whole Okocha comes out chases savage chases him to the back then he's ambushed by cheer shots and Nash and Hogan or GonNa throw him into the ring paint him rough course magically referee Nick Patrick misses all of this arguing with the giant he gives it a star and a half but I understand the method didn't like the finish finish because it wasn't a traditional match but it is heavy on story. It's heavy on heat. It's probably exactly what you were looking for at the time well because we were going with randy savage and Hulk Hogan at Halloween Halloween having too much so it was a story based match it wasn't designed to to provide fulfilling finish in conclusion as most most matches on a pay per view should do this this was I guess I want to call it a transitional kind of story match. It was what it was in watching it. You know this kind of the Finnish did I don't mind technically if you if I were to read the finish on a format it might might not bother me too much probably would today just because it's so overdone but even at that time if other read that finish finish on pay per hour to an okay I wanNA take a note of it but I probably would have let it slide but in the execution of it you know the way halt how was walking back whereas kept looking back over his shoulder. I mean it. I if you're GONNA go with that finish. I think it could have been executed in a much much better way so you could have gotten to the same point but executed it away. That would have been less obvious less of a letdown so that it may have gotten a better response from the audience good stuff man I it's hard for me to watch a randy the savage match and not take notice of his hair though and of course I think about here in wrestling I think about you because have you recently reminded us not only do you have perfect hair but you're too perfect to be real right well. I don't like to put myself over too much. You know occasionally I will when I feel like I deserve it and Anka's because no one else will but my wife and my dog but I do a perfect here I mean it's not even something that anybody can argue about even Charles Robinson you know w w referee who who has probably the second best head of hair out agrees sports entertainment even Charles Robinson Evanson bows down you know to my hair so it is true has nothing to do with me. I don't work at it was his born this way genetics my mom and dad didn't I had nothing to do with it but I'm the beneficiary of it yes. I do have perfect air. I I know what you're excited about now alice to share perfect your hair is when it comes to your daycare. God well listen. Listen grass is so crass was not a sacred that you're using the new lawn more two point no because you don't want to snag your nuts and you know you won't because of their proprietary skin and safe technology and now you're not sure smooth as a baby's bottom manscaping accidents or finally a thing of the past and really it's probably time that he's a little logic here. You shouldn't use the same trimmer on your face that using on your ball sack that's just nasty. Manscaping also has the crop preserver and and Eric. You're telling me off air how much you love the brand new anti chafing ball the odor and moisturizer here already put on your armpits. So why aren't you putting the odor on the smallest Party party your body. I Know Mrs v's Love and get twenty percents off plus free shipping when you use Promo Code Eighty three weeks at manscaping not dot com grandma grandma had the opportunity to use the right tools for the job every time and you're balls will thank you twenty percent off and free shipping when you use Promo Code Eighty three weeks at manscaping dot com that's twenty percent off with free shipping at MANSCAPING DOT com. The Promo Code is eighty three weeks so eric used to do like almost like a house forum every week. Hugh breakdown your sexy time with MRS B. I gotta think that's enhance now that she has a better view of what's going on down there. Wow Conrad right you you take you take these reads to a whole different level. I'm going to be very very I'm. I'm going to be very sophisticated in how I approach this read okay. I'm not going to get into the graphic details. mysexy mcclair Dick will say I will say that as more enlightened man in two thousand nineteen I think hygiene sure is critically important. I think maintain your look in and out of the bedroom is critically important and I think a product like manscaping is just absolutely perfect product for today's. We'll just let it go at that. You don't need you don't need to get into the graphic details by God is nothing sacred sacred anymore. No it's not here's the clearly Huntington now. Are you like since you've got the tools now. Did you like fashion the the end of your logo because you always spray painted on deeds backs and to me you could like really put on a real presentation you know for like with the uh-huh in W. O. in the Dick he didn't do that yet now. That's not my thing but can you imagine had this product available. Marcus Bagwell was in the end. wwl Yeah well or how about Macho Man. That's the story for a live show. That's that's that's another story for a live show but absolutely man I could say this with all due respect to the macho such a man. May he rest in peace rather. Don't bid for be saying yes. He would've loved this product well. Of course he would not support for eighty three weeks of course council manscaping. They're number one in men's below the belt grooming manscaping offers precision engineered tools for your family jewels get twenty percent off and free free shipping with Promo Code Eighty three weeks manscaping dot com tech carrier Dick hair so all right. Let's get to the main event pretty excited about this on the way here here. We go to backstage interview with Mike Today. Rick is so fired up that he's calling Mike Tonight. Gene Gene Not even with the company but four uh-huh. I Love Green Peacock Robe of course we got woman in the background and we got Miss Elizabeth in the background. We've got our Anderson they got lex Luger and they see someone approach them and their backstage interview area and you hear the voice and then you see the back of sting and he's saying saying something like You're just GONNA have to see I'll show you I'll prove to you and of course we're set up for the war games super heat here eighteen eighteen minutes fifteen seconds Scott Hall's GonNa Start Against Arn Anderson pretty run of the mill. The interview wins the coin flip by the way have the baby faces ever won the coin flip ever in war games that you know Oh hell no dammit I think the heels easing double-sided coins bullshit bullshit either way. This is going to be a fun match on one side of course we know Hulk Hogan Kevin Nash Scott Hall on the other side. It's very clear lex Luger Arn Anderson and Ric flair and then when we're down to the nitty gritty outcomes quote unquote sting and of course he starts immediately attacking the goodguys lex Luger Arn Anderson Require Heroes here in North Carolina and stings have nothing to do with attacking them all and he's he's got the jacket on and the whole deal eventually the real staying Steve borden comes out and now everybody is like wait a minute what's going on and it. It's very quickly revealed. That staying has not turned his back. This is a double cross. The interview has had someone get plastic plastic surgery to look like staying and stolen his gear had identical gear made it was not him all along. He's been wrongly accused well once he he comes in and clears house on everybody he looks to his quote Unquote Best Friend Lex Luger tells them to stick it and walks out and this is going to be the birth breath of crow staying at this point. It's weird how it all sort of just melts together. Someone someone makes the approach and says hey you know if this guy dressed like sting. We can really do something cool here. See You have this Guy Cobra on the squad anyway away and now you're going to dress him up do this angle and then it just sorta evolves into crow sting but if one idea doesn't happen maybe we never get grossing thing right. That's true but there was a lot more thought given to this once we knew we were going with the fake sting the the NWF sting we knew we wanted that crow character what I'm what I'm going to say it. A long way is that there was some pre planning on this and a little bit of long turn planning. We knew we were going with the story once. We embraced the idea of the W. O. Sting we knew that we wanted to have staying the real saying during be that loan. I hate to use this term because it's been so reused for so many decades but that one lone wolf you know he was there for his friends. He tried to approve it wasn't him that attacked Lex Luger the previous week you know lex Luger didn't believe him. He went in there. He did the right thing but at this point he he had just lost all faith in humanity because of what has happened to the N. wwl friends turning on friends kind of a situation and that's when you know sing was going to send ended up into the rafters at kind of looming over trying to find the right time to bring it all back together getting fix it. That was the premise of that story but it was it wasn't a spontaneous is is and I don't think he meant to make it sound spontaneous but it wasn't a spontaneous as anybody might think it was so much of the stuff we did was this wasn't this was something that was planned out out and we'd agreed earlier before this match and before the scene before the NWEA thing we knew that we had something viable and we're gonNA use it to kind of chemical sting into the rafters or to the next level so to speak and we wouldn't have if somebody whoever it was and would hopefully next week we'll have farmer on the show or or at least we'll get his direct quote as to how this idea the original iteration you know how it was developed presented. If it were not for that we would not have crow sting we had some other version of it but it wouldn't have been the thing that we saw lurking in the shadows for almost a year or over here. It's just so cool to see it all really fall into the place in the end to look back and say you know if this little thing here doesn't happen none of that happens and the little twists and turns as this the story evolves are just fascinating to me. This was such a great match to me just because of the story obviously the in ring action that you're able to do with all these guys I sort of running around almost feel all the war games matches you know to me were probably more hype than execution while there may have been some good blood it does it it does if that's what you're into it does feel like a bit of a battle royal where there's just so much going on. It's really hard to shoot and then the and the element of the cage and you know somebody's got to quit. Antonioni never really liked that because he thinks that fans are more conditioned for the big pop on a three count and this maybe some flaws with it but the the idea about the match beyond the most brutal match and the hype in anticipation behind it was always next level and now with this other wrinkle of the in W. O. and interesting with them or not really a great story. the action got a star and three quarters. I think that's probably a little low just based on the story. What did you think again? I'm I'm with you on that. I think look it was not from a technical point of view is that Chris Benoit Chris Jericho level match absolutely not was designed to be absolutely -lutely not if you've had you know nine or ten or eleven matches on the card that would have all look like all would have been to the same level of Saint Presentation Chris Jericho and Chris Benoit people were getting bored stiff with it and lets you were like the the the one percent of the top one percent of the audience that loves that kind of stuff this was a different kind of match. It was a story match. This was advancing the N. W. O. versus. WCW which was the reason why we were drawing as much money money as we were drawing. I it was the reason why the ratings were what they were all of the other things underneath it were very important and helped contribute and gave us a sense of of a variety of different kinds of styles and presentations and characters that we can all relate to in our own way going back to the wrestling buffet you know ideology but at the same time in terms of what was moving the needle what was driving revenue what was creating the opportunities to bring in a lot of the Lucci talents and a lot of the cruiserweights user weights and do all the other things we're doing was this story and this story did a great job of advancing what we needed to advance to your point destroy Oy launched a twelve month story with sting which by the way we're still talking about twenty some odd years later and by the way you can still buy that sting merchandise crow Esq merchandise indies you know to this day or the wwe shop by the way you can still see sting in his crow character at conventions around on the world so the fact that you know was it a four Star match hell no was it designed to be hell no was at one of the most important pivot points so I think in. WCW's history that has resonated to this day in two thousand nine hundred hell yeah great stuff the next day on Nitro. He comes out and cuts. The Promo should mentioned that Sean Waldman's at ringside when he's interviewed he acts like he has no no clue really what's going on later in the show. Though it's revealed he has a new name six. stink comes out to do the Promo he says. I think thank you does it with his back to the hard camera. I want a chance to explain something that happened last Monday night nitro last Monday I was on an airplane flying from Illinois Atlanta when I got to Atlanta a tuned in to the TV Nitro and I thought it was watching a rerun and often imitated but never duplicate it. So what else do I see. I see people I see wrestlers and see commentators. See My best friend's doubting Stinger. Try the doubted the singer the Stinger so hard lex Luger saying I know where he lives. I know where he works out. I'm going to go and get him so I said to myself. I'll go into this conclusion. I'll wait and see what happens on Saturday night and tune in Saturday night and what did I see. I I see more of the same more doubt which brings me to fall brawl. I knew I had to get to fall brawling face to face with total package to let him know it wasn't me and when I get out of that was no staying. I don't believe you staying well. I gotTa say is I've been a mediator. I've been a babysitter for lex Luger. I've given the benefit of the data thousand times in the last twelve months and carry the WCW banner. I'm giving my blood sweat and my tears. WCW So for all those fans out there and those wrestlers people that never doubted the Stinger. I'll stand by you if you stand stand by me but for all the people all the commentators and wrestlers all the best friends who did doubt me you can stick it from now on. I consider myself a free agent. That doesn't mean that you won't see in the Stinger from time to time. I'm GonNa pop in when you least expect it of course the next week he's out in all black and white face paint and the crows roasting is born and this show is really the birth of at Fall Brawl Nineteen Ninety six. I found it fascinating that you know the reader. Poll in The Observer didn't really love the show. I thought this was a really really solid undercard as we know not a huge fan of the ice train Scott Norton masks but the rest of the stuff really really good and the story in the main event that was outstanding. If you had to sort of give this pay per view writing one to ten. What would you give this one eight I? I can't argue that man. I like it. I think it's good to again. We have the benefit of the benefit of twenty twenty hindsight you know in the moment you know if you go back to Nineteen ninety-six when whoever you know in search dirt sheet writer here whoever was writing reading about this pay per view and rating editor or putting it overbearing it or whatever none of us not them not me not you it could have known how successful that sting story would become over the course of the next year plus right so we look at it now you and I in in retrospect as this huge important pivot point as I said you could still buy this picture dice you know from. WWe You can still go see sting. You have to pay a lot of money to do what if you want to get a picture an autograph but you can still go meet and greet staying in his crow character what I don't even know how many years later does not twenty some odd years later so clearly it was a story in a moment that has resonated throughout this industry for decades. Nobody's but he's GonNa take that away from anybody. However in the moment we didn't know that you know it's it's easy to go back for you and I look at the show now knowing knowing what we know twenty years later and say wow this is really a great show because it it achieves so many things but unless you had a crystal ball you didn't know how important this show was until years later so I get why you know some people may not have liked it in rated as highly as possibly your I I think they should have but from a storytelling point of view from an overall balance of great wrestling action great characters great story I think it was one of the better efforts efforts under my tenure at? WCW certainly could have improved a lot of things I think what are the other things that I wish I could get a do over on. Was that backstage interview view sin came into plead his case and try to tell Lexi it wasn't him if I could only do that scene over again today I would. I would love to do this scene feet over against it because I think it would have not made it. It would have made it much more interesting and much more dramatic had that backstage set it up. Properly sing just walked in. We saw the back of his head on his back which I know why we did that. We did that because we didn't want. We don't want people to kind of discern between the facing facing the real thing any more than necessary so there's a reason for it but it's still look awkward at best but less Luger was if I was GonNa do that over again today I would have had stink probably come in I would have had them come in with a little more passion it and pleading his case I would have also had those four guys. Would I'm whatever I would have had you know lax in Rick in a tear into him in the beginning at create kind of a pull apart I would have had that dialogue between LEX sting take place while they were each being restrained rained brought more emotion to that that's my point there. Just wasn't nearly the amount of emotion in that scene as there should have been given the circumstances in the story and I had it been physical and almost got to the point where the three of them were pounding the hell out of sting because they just were firmly firmly convinced that he attacked lex Luger the week before I think stinks showing up the real sting in doing what he did would have had a more interesting impact on the audience audience but more importantly than that I think his final farewell as the original sting and now you know ascending to become this crow character what have had even more meaning an and would have made the store even more interesting because it would have been more of a reason for it you know they not only doubted him but they beat the shit out of them in the process and I think that that could have just made the story stick even harder well. We hope you'll stick with US hard next week. Maybe that means which you'll be back. We'll have to wait and see but we do have a fun show coming up next week. We are really really good feedback. I don't know what you saw but I had you watch an episode Monday night raw a couple of months ago and we've got such strong feedback from you watching. WWF show really for the first time and giving your sort of fresh perspective and how excited you were at the end of that show when the cane mask comes off and is revealed that in fact was the undertaker that I've decided I listed that again next week and we're going to do it with a very historic raw from nineteen ninety seven just about a week after this pay-per-view here at fall brawl of course we're aw GONNA swing for the fences when they go to Madison Square Garden where you guys just were here in two thousand nineteen and here we're GONNA see Stone Cold Steve Austin Stun Vince McMahon and we'll see the debut of Cactus Jack The character that Mick Foley portrayed in WCW healed debut here at Madison Square Garden so tune in next week when we watch the September twenty second nineteen ninety-seven Monday night raw and then finish up the month of September with something that I know that you I don't know are are you reading or looking forward to talking about TNA. I feel like it's something you almost block out. Sometimes Oh oh it depends on the day you know. One of the challenges I'm going to have with that. Show is that there was some good things that happen. You know there I mean I and we'll save it for next week. But there's some memories I have that are quite fond and very personal to me that that I'm grateful for you know then there are moments probably more than I care to enumerate on